# ***Official HTIB Alternatives Thread***



## G-star

Finally, a thread for those intrigued by the possibilities of piecing together their own budget HT, rather than settle for an all-in-one box solution full of various design compromises. The top priority here is sound quality over convenience, while remaining competitive with HTIB type prices.


This thread isn't to debate the pros/cons of true HTIB, rather, it is here as a gathering place for those who seek to share their experiences, knowledge, and benefits realized by by components designed to survive on their own merits in the A/V marketplace. Share your experiences, and feel free to add your own suggestions. This first post is by no means meant to be comprehensive, just some ideas to get started for those with a rough budget of $300 - $1000. For those at the low end of the budget range, you'll have to start small (think 2.0 or 2.1) and build over time. If you want instant 5.1 or 7.1 for less than $300, this is not the place for you.

*Receivers*:


Onkyo TX-SR 504 ($169): Onkyo 504 


Panasonic XR-55 ($219):
Panasonic Digital Amp/Receiver 


Pioneer VSX-516 ($169):
Pioneer 516 


Yamaha HTR-5930SL ($199):
Yamaha 5930 


Refurbished Harman Kardon AVR's ($200+)
_Search the Harman direct store on ebay for daily auctions: H/K 140, 235, 240, 340, etc._

*Speakers (Mains and/or Surrounds)*:


Athena AS-B1.2 ($99/pr)
Athena Bookshelves 


AV123 X-LS ($219/pr)
AV123 Bookshelves 


Polk Floorstanders ($69.99/ea):
Polk R50 


More Polk Floorstanders ($49.99/ea)
Polk R300's 


Polkr R150's ($49.99/pr):
Polk Bookshelves 


Boston Acoustic CR-57 ($179/pr):
BA Bookshelves 


HSU HB-1 ($109/pr):
HSU Bookshelves (Horn Tweeters) 


JBL Monitor ($139/pr):
JBL Bookshelves 


Infinity Primus P152 ($99/ea)
Infinity Bookshelves 


SVS SBS-01 ($225):
SVS Bookshelves 


Acoustic Research A2's ($50/pr)
AR A2 


*Center Channel Speakers:*


AV123 X-CS ($139):
AV123 Center Channel 


Athena AS-C1.2 ($149):
Athena Center Channel - Audition Series 


Athena AS-C.5 ($75):
Athena Center Channel - Point 5 Series 


Polk Audio RM6752 ($79):
Polk Center Channel 


Polk CS1 ($159)
Polk CS1 


Infinity Primus C25 ($99):
Infinity C25 


SVS SCS-01 ($185):
SVS Center Channel 


HSU HC-1 ($199):
HSU Center Channel - Horn Tweeters 


*Subwoofers*


Dayton 10" ($124):
Dayton 10" 


Velodyne VX-10 ($159)
Velo VX-10 


AV123 X-sub ($199):
X-Sub 


Bic Acoustech H-100 (~ $230):

***authorized ebay seller, make an offer***
_please note that I am not a seller...you must search for auctions on ebay._


Hsu STF-1 ($249):
STF-1 


Hsu VTF-2 MK2 ($399):
VTF-2.2 


Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350)
A2-300 


SVS PB10-NSD ($429):
PB10-NSD 

*Speaker Packages*


Athena Micra 5.1 Package ($399)
Micra 6 


Klipsch Quintet II 5.0 Package($299)
Quintet II 


Klipsch Quintet III 5.0 Package ($399)
Quintet III 


Velodyne CHT Front Row 5.0 Package ($199)
_Available in white only....call (408)465-2824 to order directly from Velodyne._

*EDIT/UPDATE 04-26-07*

_Links to great detailed info on wiring, speaker placement, and general HT tutorials. Thanks to Buzzy for the suggestion and links:_

*Wire:*
Roger Russell's classic speaker wire table 
Crutchfield on speaker wire 
*

Placement:*
Speaker placement 

*Lots of good general info:*
Crutchfield Advisor 
Aperion 



*EDIT/UPDATE 05-02-07*

_Excellent thread from the Audio Setup, Theory, Chat section of AVS with a massive amount of information. Thanks to Dr. PainMD for the thread and dbrowdy for suggesting inclusion of a link to this thread._

*AVS Master Thread for Setting up your Home Theater*
Setting Up Your Home Theatre 101 


*EDIT/UPDATE 06-03-07*


Several links updated, with a few new products added that have been discussed at length in thus far in the thread. Speaker packages added 06-06-07.


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## Echomalinois

don't forget the Velodyne front row system, it seems to be pretty popular as an alternative these days.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...x?sid=815x485n 


Just a thought to those looking for a new system on a budget. Don't compromise! Save up and get the best that you can the first time even if that means not getting a full 5.1 to start with. I set up my first ht system 7-8 months ago and have replaced every thing but the receiver. If you do it 2 times it will cost you 2 times the money.


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## sound dropouts

The advent heritage were popular a little bit ago, but I think they are sold out now.


There are threads with people paying 220 bucks for 7 advents. ( I own the center...retailed for 150, got it for 18 euro) The point is you can find some good deals on very good bookshelves.


If you add a panny Xr55, then an HSU sub for ~500, that is an EXCELLANT Ht system for only 900 dollars.


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## G-star

good call on the Advents and Velodyne Front Row system...great values that were just overlooked. these guys can be paired with an entry level sub and receiver for a nice $500 5.1 system.


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## cnosil

thanks for starting this thread. Great idea for those of us on a budget who want components or a higher end HTIB but struggle in the speaker forum because the "budget" speakers typically get slammed in favor of piecing together a more expensive system over time.


Went to my local Circuit City to hear the Onkyo 504 ($269) paired with Polk M10 fronts and surrounds ($200), Polk CSM Center ($129), and a Velodyne VRP1000 Sub ($249). I personally liked the sound of this setup but the price tag was well over my budget. From reading the various forums have decided to get a refurbished 504 for $159, Polk R15 front and surrounds ($100), Polk Csi25 center ($70), and a Velodyne VX-10 ($159) which have been described as very similar to the ones I demoed. Not being an audiophile I was happy with what I heard and feel as though I will be content with this setup for a long time....especially since my wife thinks it will be too loud. Total cost including shipping is just under $510.


Now I am impatiently awaiting is arrival!


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## Tulpa

This thread would also be good to people who start out with a HTIB and want to upgrade.


Say you get a killer deal on a 790 from Shoponkyo, but after a while you get more in your budget and want better sound. Well, the receiver is roughly the same as the Onkyo mentioned in G-Star's link, so you're good to go there, just add the sub or speaker packages and you're on your way.










I think a Bic H-100 is next on my list.


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## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread would also be good to people who start out with a HTIB and want to upgrade.



excellent point here. the 790 receiver is absolutely its strong point, and the reason why it is one of the better HTIB's out there. it is a great upgrade platform for those who desire a little bit more in the way performance out of their HT gear.


the ebay/craigslist market for onkyo speakers/subs is HOT.


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## jwood966

In addition to the reading all the threads/posts here. I'd should mention that audioholics.com's articles were also helpful in building my first HTIB alternative.

Budgeting Your Home Theater 

The $1000 Bare Bones System 


(NOTE: links are temporary...as the site is being updated. you should be able to find the articles on the new site if the links break)


[ update ]
My HTIB quest - ended up w/ $1k in components 

Onkyo 504 -> Onkyo 674

Velodyne Front Row CHT Speakers

Hsu VTF2-MK3


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## pdadi

I went with Onkyo 504,Velodyne CHT speakers and Bic H-100.


It sounds fantastic. I calibrated with Radio shack SPL meter and Avia.


LFE effects are fantastic and sounds accurate but it doesn't rattle my walls/move my couch etc etc as many have posted in this forum. I listen at -10 for movies.


For $600 nobody can go wrong with this setup.


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## dchanman01

With all due respect G-star your thread really does not belong in this section of the MB. Read the title again. This section is for owners of HTIB or people that are considering getting one. If they wish to look into something other than HTIB, there are other sections of the forum they can go to and that's where you should place your thread.


I wouldn't go into the Sony RPTV SXRD MB and tell people not to buy the Sony but instead get the JVC D-ila RPTV as an alternative. Get my point?


A mod should look into this.


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## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dchanman01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With all due respect G-star your thread really does not belong in this section of the MB. Read the title again. This section is for owners of HTIB or people that are considering getting one. If they wish to look into something other than HTIB, there are other sections of the forum they can go to and that's where you should place your thread.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't go into the Sony RPTV SXRD MB and tell people not to buy the Sony but instead get the JVC D-ila RPTV as an alternative. Get my point?
> 
> 
> A mod should look into this.



the title of this forum is sort of a misnomer. it is the best and most appropriate place for discussion of budget home theater/home theater in a box. this includes low cost component systems that compete with all-in-one-box systems, even if that offends your delicate sensibilities. all we're doing with this thread is trying to create a central place for people who want something more than a one-size-fits-all system to discuss their experiences.


if you want to get the mods involved, go ahead and knock yourself out...there have been very successful threads on this topic in this very forum in the past. if you had been posting for more than a month or two, maybe you'd realize this.


so, _with all due respect_, get your head out of your ass and ignore this thread if it upsets you so much.


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## dchanman01

You need to calm down cause I ain't upset at all over your thread so leave out the dirty words. I do honestly feel your thread belongs elsewhere. If you are doing budget HT with component stuff it's not a HTIB so it shouldn't be here, that's all.


My time on this MB has nothing to do with it. I'm on 6 other MB's relating to other interests of mine so just because you have lots of posts here compared to me doesn't mean ****. You know stuff I don't and vice versa.


Take a valium and good night.


I find it amusing that you are specifically targeting your bashing on the 990 yet I see no posts from you in the official ht-s590 thread................hidden agenda in the making????????


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## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dchanman01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I find it amusing that you are specifically targeting your bashing on the 990 yet I see no posts from you in the official ht-s590 thread................hidden agenda in the making????????



i'm not turning this thread into an argument with one person, so this is the last time i will address this nonsense.










i don't know where you got the idea that i'm specifically targeting the 990. i guess you own one, and this thread has touched a nerve. that in itself is pretty ironic.










the HTS-590 can be had for $160. there's really not even any 2.0 system that can compete at that pricepoint, so that's why i have largely ignored it. the concepts of this thread really start to apply for HTIB's $300 and up. so there's no agenda, its just the reality of the situation.



> Quote:
> You know stuff I don't and vice versa.



i've owned an onkyo HTIB, and listened carefully to several others that i haven't owned. i've also put together my own budget HT with component stuff, and have heard what a difference quality separates make first hand. so i think i'm qualified to comment on these issues, and perhaps it means that i just might know something that you don't.


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## jerkin

Personally I think it's a good idea for a thread. You get a lot of people in here looking for budget components, they normally don't get a lot of help in the specific forums where people are into higher end gear.

Anyways, I'd like to add the sherwood rd-8601 into the mix. A little bit more expensive than the other receivers mentioned but for the couple extra bucks you pick up component upconversion, OSD, and auto calibration.


Sherwood RD-8601 ($259):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882177001 


Another thing I didn't see mentioned is cables. Check out the site sponsors at the top of the forums page, all of them have great quality cables at prices multiple times less expensive than you will pay at the B&M stores.


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## dchanman01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so i think i'm qualified to comment on these issues, and perhaps it means that i just might know something that you don't.



Yeah in your dreams.................and that's the end of this argument.


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## lpj8

I think that this is a great thread and is exactly what I was looking for. I just purchased a new TV, and now need a sound system setup to compliment the great picture. Problem is, I spent most of my budget on the TV! My Budget is around 400-500. I wouldn't be opposed to starting with a 2.0 or 2.1, and adding to the system later.


This system will be used for 80% movies, and 20% music. My living room is rather large and open. I've never had a Home Theater system, I'm new to this.


I've been looking at:


Receiver: Refurb Onkyo TX-SR504

Speakers: CHT FRONT ROW SYSTEM or AV123 X-LS

Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100


Geez, I guess I've already exceeded my budget...story of my life.


My main question is rather I should go ahead and buy a sub-woofer now, or wait and get some better speakers with the money. Any advice or suggestions?


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## steve7100

Thanks for starting this thread G star. I have a HTIB and I am in the processing of upgrading and this thread is helpful. Also, I am someone who is very new to AVS and HT. I don't know alot, but learning. If I went to CC tomorrow, most reps just try and sell you HTIB's. This thread gives both suggestions for upgrades and education before buying an HTIB.


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## LandShark22

G-star this thread is great and it's in the perfect place, IMO. I'm a new poster, but I've lurked forever and this section is where I learned that a great component setup can be done for around the price of a HTIB.


This section has really turned into Home Theater on a Budget, whether it be HTIB or budget components. And that's a Good Thing


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## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lpj8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think that this is a great thread and is exactly what I was looking for. I just purchased a new TV, and now need a sound system setup to compliment the great picture. Problem is, I spent most of my budget on the TV! My Budget is around 400-500. I wouldn't be opposed to starting with a 2.0 or 2.1, and adding to the system later.
> 
> 
> This system will be used for 80% movies, and 20% music. My living room is rather large and open. I've never had a Home Theater system, I'm new to this.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Refurb Onkyo TX-SR504
> 
> Speakers: CHT FRONT ROW SYSTEM or AV123 X-LS
> 
> Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100
> 
> 
> Geez, I guess I've already exceeded my budget...story of my life.
> 
> 
> My main question is rather I should go ahead and buy a sub-woofer now, or wait and get some better speakers with the money. Any advice or suggestions?




I would start with the best speakers that you can afford to get. If that means waiting on a sub, so be it. Another way would be get a 2.1 or 3.1 depending on your budget. I know your movie experience will not be the same with out a sub, but in the long run it will be worth it. As you already mentioned the X-LS speakers, look at what AV123 has to offer in package form, some really good deals.


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## pdadi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lpj8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think that this is a great thread and is exactly what I was looking for. I just purchased a new TV, and now need a sound system setup to compliment the great picture. Problem is, I spent most of my budget on the TV! My Budget is around 400-500. I wouldn't be opposed to starting with a 2.0 or 2.1, and adding to the system later.
> 
> 
> This system will be used for 80% movies, and 20% music. My living room is rather large and open. I've never had a Home Theater system, I'm new to this.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Refurb Onkyo TX-SR504
> 
> Speakers: CHT FRONT ROW SYSTEM or AV123 X-LS
> 
> Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100
> 
> 
> Geez, I guess I've already exceeded my budget...story of my life.
> 
> 
> My main question is rather I should go ahead and buy a sub-woofer now, or wait and get some better speakers with the money. Any advice or suggestions?



I have exactly same system which I configured very recently. I am very much satisfied

with this setup. Speakers sound natural and there is no brightness at all which is one of my criteria. Bic H-100 at that price is great and fantastic for movies.


Forgot to add. If you go with Velodyne speakers it needs subwoofer since they are small bookshelf speakers which requires a sub.


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## afrogt

Good thread G-Star!


Please add these speakers to your list.


Bookshelf Speakers - Acoustic Research ARVP25 ($49/pr)
http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?...Fid=58%2D10995 


Center Channel - Acoustic Research ARXP242C ($59)
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4151631


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## G-star

first, thanks to those who have positively contributed to this thread. i like to see how the knowledge base is already expanding with new suggestions.










also, i hope anyone who is interested in upgrading their HTIB's in pieces finds useful information here. i used to own an onkyo HTIB (HTS-780) and ultimately found the speakers to be muddy and the sub wasn't so great with handling movie bass.


i took a chance and bought a pair of athena B1's and a C1 on clearance for $200, and loved the immediate improvement that it made to the system. so i sold the onkyo back surrounds, mains, and center as a package via craigslist for $125. bingo, new speakers only cost $75.


then i bought a refurbished H/K AVR-235 receiver from harmandirect on ebay for $260, and sold the onkyo receiver on craigslist for $250, believe it or not. so for $10 more, i got a better receiver with more power, features, etc.


by this time i was hooked, and the sub had to go. i sold it for $110 and bought an SVS PB-10 for $460. so yeah, i went over budget, but ended up getting the SVS for $350 net, knowing i would not have the urge to upgrade soon b/c it is such a capable sub.


finally added some athena S.5's as surrounds that i got off ebay for $70/pr. sold the last onkyo surrounds for $30.


the best and most dramatic upgrade was the sub, then the L/C/R speakers. if i had it to do over again, i would have built the system in pieces. but the upgrading was fun, and not too cost prohibitive, when selling the HTIB gear is taken into account.


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## jayenright

Nice thread guys, this is exactly what I needed and greatly appreciated.


I have a question about the receiver though - everyone seems to be going with the Onkyo 504. Whats the difference with the 604 and is it worth the upgrade? I have a PS3 which doubles as my DVD/Blu-ray player, so I want to fully utilize that. I mean, I was considering it, but now I'm beginning to question the value of the upgrade.


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## Tulpa

604 adds HDMI switching, and probably a few other things.


That receiver alone sells for about as much as the whole HT-S790 (saw it for $379, which is around the price of a new 790 with a few rebates, or a refurbished one from Onkyo), though, so anyone looking for a complete home theater solution in the $400-500 range wouldn't really consider it unless they can get a killer deal on speakers or leave some stuff out.


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## G-star

tulpa is right on the money concerning the 604. a very nice receiver with several advantages over the 504, but a bit out of range for those on a budget. i would consider one if i had about $1200 - $1500 to spend on a 5.1 setup, or if i was going to start with 2.1 system.


i usually recommend people spend about 15 - 20% of their total budget on the receiver. the $$ is better spent on good speakers/sub, as that is where the advantages of component systems will really become evident.


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## bdizzle

If all i had initially was a receiver and 2 speakers, how much different would it sound from the stereo speakers on my tv? I'm new to the HT world so I don't know that much about audio. This will be my first surround sound system btw. I was big on having a hdmi switching receiver, but now the only thing i'm concerned with is the truehd and dtshd (probably way out the range of htib'ers)


Great thread btw. I always hear people say don't go HTIB because they suck, then turn around and recommend something 2x the price and say i'll be happier in the long run. I doubt id be happier when my lights get cut off in the process. Hopefully this will get stickied and become very informative


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## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If all i had initially was a receiver and 2 speakers, how much different would it sound from the stereo speakers on my tv?



Depends on what you get and how good the receiver/speakers are. Generally, though, a good stereo setup will probably outclass your TVs speakers. Especially if you get a subwoofer for a 2.1 setup.


It'll still be stereo, but it'll sound like a well-built home system compared to a simple boombox.


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## bdizzle

I was planning on getting either the athena's or the polks initially, frankly because they're the brands i see mentioned most on the forums. The only requirement I have on the receivers is being able to decode lossless pcm. I was reading the why dont u need hdmi 1.3 thread and it showed me that i can get lossless audio over analog instead of plunking down a ton of money for a hdmi 1.3 receiver. i wasn't planning on getting a sub until I get my projector. currently my only hdtv is in my bedroom, so I stereo is more than enough.


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## PullMyFinger

Great thread. I don't have any home theater equipment and was going to go the HTIB route. But, I have a great pair of Bose 501 speakers. Would these make good left, right front speakers for a system? If so, all I would need to buy would be a receiver, dvd(upconvert) a center speaker and two rear speakers. I also have a superb pair of original Bose 901 speakers in the closet that haven't been used in years but these would not work in my room. Uless I could use those for the front speakers and the 501's for the rear speakes. Then I would just need a center speaker and a sub-woofer. Would a good receiver be able to drive the four Bose speakers? Would it not sound right? Just asking as I have no idea on what works and what doesn't. Thanks.


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## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> first, thanks to those who have positively contributed to this thread. i like to see how the knowledge base is already expanding with new suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, i hope anyone who is interested in upgrading their HTIB's in pieces finds useful information here. i used to own an onkyo HTIB (HTS-780) and ultimately found the speakers to be muddy and the sub wasn't so great with handling movie bass.
> 
> 
> i took a chance and bought a pair of athena B1's and a C1 on clearance for $200, and loved the immediate improvement that it made to the system. so i sold the onkyo back surrounds, mains, and center as a package via craigslist for $125. bingo, new speakers only cost $75.
> 
> 
> then i bought a refurbished H/K AVR-235 receiver from harmandirect on ebay for $260, and sold the onkyo receiver on craigslist for $250, believe it or not. so for $10 more, i got a better receiver with more power, features, etc.
> 
> 
> by this time i was hooked, and the sub had to go. i sold it for $110 and bought an SVS PB-10 for $460. so yeah, i went over budget, but ended up getting the SVS for $350 net, knowing i would not have the urge to upgrade soon b/c it is such a capable sub.
> 
> 
> finally added some athena S.5's as surrounds that i got off ebay for $70/pr. sold the last onkyo surrounds for $30.
> 
> 
> the best and most dramatic upgrade was the sub, then the L/C/R speakers. if i had it to do over again, i would have built the system in pieces. but the upgrading was fun, and not too cost prohibitive, when selling the HTIB gear is taken into account.



I must admit that for a long time now I found this G-star guy very annoying because all I really wanted was a HTIB and I didn't really want to hear him telling everybody on the HTIB forum everything that was wrong with it. I often wondered why he lurked here - just waiting for someone to post their desired system so that he could shoot the intended purchase down and tear their hopes to pieces. Everyday overly excited home theater newbies would eagerly post that they had Found this or that and it's cheap and great for the price and G-star would inevitably crush their hopes by saying something to the effect of it's cheap because it's crap and you won't like it! However, over time I started to think about what he was saying and also went to the local CC to hear the Onkyo HT790 (that I intended to purchase) and it did indeed sound muddy and the sub seemed to be under powered. I really like clear speakers and good bass, so that made me start thinking.


What occurred to me was that I didn't need to get the Onkyo system or any system all at once (which is what G-star evangelizes) and could spend a little more than my $500 budget if I was just patient and wanted to wait a little, or spread my purchases out. (I'm 39, so having everything now is not a big deal for me anymore - learn that principle young ones - some things are worth waiting for!). This idea directly supports what G-star and others have said about starting with a 2.0, 2.1 or 3.1 and moving from there. So here's what I did...


I bought an Onkyo TX SR674 from Abt electronics for 499.00 shipped and let it sit in my basement for a while until I had some more money to get the rest of the stuff I wanted. Over time, I was able to pick up two pairs of BIC America DV62si Bookshelf Speakers (6 1/2 woofers & 0.75-inch poly dome tweeter) for $109.88 for each pair and a BIC America DV-62CLRS (dual 6 1/2 woofers & 0.75-inch poly dome tweeter) for $93.15. I heard a lot of bad reviews and some good reviews about these 5 speakers and in the end I went with them remembering that reviews - even those of so called professionals - are subjective at best. How could these people possibly know what sounds good to me? Having just received them, I'm glad I bought what I wanted because I like the way these matched components sound. And my center speaker is full and voices are real and clear - which is why I chose a larger center mid woofers.


I ended up having some wiggle room in the budget for a Hsu STF-2 Subwoofer that I bought from Hsu Research for 319.00, but originally was going to go with the BIC H100. I've also heard the AV123 X-sub ($199) and considered the Elemental Designs A2 - 300 Subwoofer for $350.00. But participants on the Elemental Designs forum on AVS state that wait times are up to 3 months for point of order.


Now, having said all of that, please remember - you can by 2 or 3 speakers and a sub first or buy 3 or 5 speakers and then a sub later or what ever you want to do. It's all up to you and how you want to roll with it. But, do buy the best system you can afford and if you can suffer though it - take your time buying that pieces you want because I promise that patience can and will pay off. Utilize the information many of these guys give as potential guidelines and not as gospel - some of the equipment listed in the original start of the thread I wouldn't ever buy or even consider - but that does not mean that it wouldn't work well for you. A whole lot of people consider the BIC America speakers too bright, but I like them and they sound way better than the HT790 speakers. So I'm ahead.


G-star, having read your experience with a HTIB listed above - it now all makes sense to me. Initially I was also annoyed with this thread being in the HTIB area, but I can't argue with all the others who are glad it's here. I wanted HTIB because I was lazy and didn't want to do the research, but some may need the research you've done and the advice you give to get them going because they are new to this arena. I now feel that it's cool that this thread is around so that those that do need guidance can get it. And also good job with your ferverent almost evangelistic attention to the pitfalls of HTIB and the whole "the British are coming - The end is near" stereo thing. You basically made me re-think buying the Onkyo HT790 - which I almost pulled the trigger on in November when my wife and I were standing in a Circuit City home stereo area looking at the system and its low price.


For that I'm thankful to you.










Doug


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## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PullMyFinger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great thread. I don't have any home theater equipment and was going to go the HTIB route. But, I have a great pair of Bose 501 speakers. Would these make good left, right front speakers for a system? If so, all I would need to buy would be a receiver, dvd(upconvert) a center speaker and two rear speakers. I also have a superb pair of original Bose 901 speakers in the closet that haven't been used in years but these would not work in my room. Uless I could use those for the front speakers and the 501's for the rear speakes. Then I would just need a center speaker and a sub-woofer. Would a good receiver be able to drive the four Bose speakers? Would it not sound right? Just asking as I have no idea on what works and what doesn't. Thanks.



Dude,


If you have a reciever then try it. Since you already have the speakers then the only way to know is for you to try it and see if you like it.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PullMyFinger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great thread. I don't have any home theater equipment and was going to go the HTIB route. But, I have a great pair of Bose 501 speakers. Would these make good left, right front speakers for a system? If so, all I would need to buy would be a receiver, dvd(upconvert) a center speaker and two rear speakers. I also have a superb pair of original Bose 901 speakers in the closet that haven't been used in years but these would not work in my room. Uless I could use those for the front speakers and the 501's for the rear speakes. Then I would just need a center speaker and a sub-woofer. Would a good receiver be able to drive the four Bose speakers? Would it not sound right? Just asking as I have no idea on what works and what doesn't. Thanks.



I would do some research both locally and on some auction sites like Ebay, etc and see if you can get a general idea of what the 901s and 501s are going for. Bose is a well known and respected name with the unknowing and if they are in good shape the resale value should be up there.


I wouldn't even start to try to combine a center with those, your speakers need to be tonally matched and it's doubful you'll find anything plus there are much bettter HT speakers out there for less cost so once you auction off or sell the 901s and 501s you should have a nice budget to put together a very nice seperate system.


----------



## PullMyFinger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude,
> 
> 
> If you have a reciever then try it. Since you already have the speakers then the only way to know is for you to try it and see if you like it.



Yes, I could do that. But I was wondering how powerful a receiver I would need to drive the Bose speakers? What would be a good center speaker and sub-woofer to match up with the Bose?


----------



## PullMyFinger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would do some research both locally and on some auction sites like Ebay, etc and see if you can get a general idea of what the 901s and 501s are going for. Bose is a well known and respected name with the unknowing and if they are in good shape the resale value should be up there.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't even start to try to combine a center with those, your speakers need to be tonally matched and it's doubful you'll find anything plus there are much bettter HT speakers out there for less cost so once you auction off or sell the 901s and 501s you should have a nice budget to put together a very nice seperate system.



Sorry. I didn't see this post before I responded before. I have no intention of selling the Bose. Even if I can't use them for a home theater system. I figured if they could be used for this, why not? I suppose I could go to BB or CC and ask someone there if the Bose would work with a particular receiver. But I'm not sure if they would really know. That's why I'm asking the experts here.


----------



## Tulpa

The speakers will work individually (as long as the impedance is correct, etc.), but if you don't get a matched center channel speaker, the front three will sound funny, like a disjoint in panning sounds, or different levels of tone, etc.


If you're insistent on using the Bose, do some research to see if they make a center channel that will match up with your current models.


----------



## G-star

like Tulpa said, the receiver is not the problem, its finding a matching center speaker. if you're insistent on using the bose, finding a tonally matched center speaker might be difficult, if not impossible. you might want to consider starting over, or using the bose as your surrounds.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For that I'm thankful to you.



i won't quote the whole thing, but thanks...i think.


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i won't quote the whole thing, but thanks...i think.



You are and were right...I would have never liked the HTIB.


----------



## dfwfiveoh

G-star,


What do you think about the elemental designs subs? They seem like a good buy and the boxes are sturdy and the amps are powerful. They are just having issues keeping up with demand at this point - on the AVS elemental forum I think it's up to 3 months at this point. For the person that would want a decent amount of bump on the low end and a reasonable price - these subs would seem like a decent choice.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...41#post9889441


----------



## SkidPalace

I am upgrading from a cheapo Bose Acoustimass 600 which was fine for the apartment bedroom it came out of, but the new plasma in our ~1500cf living room deserves better.

I just got a REL Q150E sub at a blow out price for a floor model ($249) and I would like to pair it with a set of Velodyne Front Rows.

Does anyone have experience with the Q150E? Will it match well with the 4" drivers of the Front Rows? How will the Q compare to a BIC H-100?

Does anyone favor a better set 5.0 set for even a hundred bucks more?

I know the Mirage Nanaosat 5-piece system is available for $299 at Vanns.

Advice would be appreciated.


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkidPalace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am upgrading from a cheapo Bose Acoustimass 600 which was fine for the apartment bedroom it came out of, but the new plasma in our ~1500cf living room deserves better.
> 
> I just got a REL Q150E sub at a blow out price for a floor model ($249) and I would like to pair it with a set of Velodyne Front Rows.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the Q150E? Will it match well with the 4" drivers of the Front Rows? How will the Q compare to a BIC H-100?
> 
> Does anyone favor a better set 5.0 set for even a hundred bucks more?
> 
> I know the Mirage Nanaosat 5-piece system is available for $299 at Vanns.
> 
> Advice would be appreciated.



FYI...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=810254


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> G-star,
> 
> 
> What do you think about the elemental designs subs? They seem like a good buy and the boxes are sturdy and the amps are powerful. They are just having issues keeping up with demand at this point - on the AVS elemental forum I think it's up to 3 months at this point. For the person that would want a decent amount of bump on the low end and a reasonable price - these subs would seem like a decent choice.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...41#post9889441



while pretty much all of my knowledge about them comes from the thread you referenced, they seem to be a good bargain. they are not as time-tested as some of the other ID brands like SVS and HSU, but there seem to be some happy owners out there.


a 12" sub that has a -3dB point at 18Hz for $350 sounds almost too good to be true. i would love to hear one myself to see how the SQ stacks up against the giants of the sub world. nonetheless, these two guys should be included for the budget HT people:


A2-250: http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=406 

A2-300: http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=407


----------



## kabob983




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Echomalinois* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> don't forget the Velodyne front row system, it seems to be pretty popular as an alternative these days.
> 
> 
> Just a thought to those looking for a new system on a budget. Don't compromise! Save up and get the best that you can the first time even if that means not getting a full 5.1 to start with. I set up my first ht system 7-8 months ago and have replaced every thing but the receiver. If you do it 2 times it will cost you 2 times the money.



Question for everyone, how's the quality of the Velodyne speakers? I found the 5 piece (front and satellites) CHT front row system on sale pretty cheap. If so, what's a good woofer and receiver to pair with them? For the receiver I'd want HDMI/Component (video and audio), optical audio in, etc...the usual.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kabob983* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question for everyone, how's the quality of the Velodyne speakers? I found the 5 piece (front and satellites) CHT front row system on sale pretty cheap. If so, what's a good woofer and receiver to pair with them? For the receiver I'd want HDMI/Component (video and audio), optical audio in, etc...the usual.



the velo's seem to be a popular option around here, there's a long thread on them in the speaker forum. they seem to be a tough deal to beat.


the best sub to pair with them would depend on your budget. again the Bic H-100 seems to be a popular choice for about $230, but there are several options. internet-direct brands usually offer the most bang for the buck.


HDMI switching is a luxury on receivers right now, and you'll pay a premium for it. IMO, its better to buy a less expensive receiver and run your HDMI cables from the source directly to the display. use digital audio cables from your sources to the receiver for all the surround processing.


----------



## Ron Temple

G-star, nice thread...great job


For those of you who've been pissed off by his helpful suggestions regarding initial HT purchases...do a search.


You should check out some of his initial heated posts regarding similar suggestions from other HTIB upgraders at the beginning. You might get a kick










Then go back about a year and see some of mine. JohnRinLA used to piss me off royally







...for about 4 months when I checked it out.


This is the perfect place for a thread like this. It shouldn't detract those who truly need the benefits of an all in one solution, but many of us want more on a budget. The Speaker, Amp/Receiver and Subwoofer forums can be intimidating and not on point for many newbies. This is a great place to learn and find out if you're going to be hooked or not.


I've spent alot of time in this forum doing the same thing as G-star, not much recently, but have gotten the same reaction, alot of positive and some flaming negative, but I never took the time to organize and reach out as he has.


Kudos...


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you who've been pissed off by his helpful suggestions regarding initial HT purchases...do a search.
> 
> 
> You should check out some of his initial heated posts regarding similar suggestions from other HTIB upgraders at the beginning. You might get a kick



LOL, ron always speaks the truth. his advice was helpful back then and it is now. i guess you could say we both became converts after "seeing the light".










the purpose of this thread was not to **** on anybody with an HTIB, rather, to try and create a central place for those in the separates boat. with so much useful info scattered around these forums in different places, i think it makes good sense.


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ....This is the perfect place for a thread like this....The Speaker, Amp/Receiver and Subwoofer forums can be intimidating and not on point for many newbies....




Ron, you've said a mouthful in both of these posts - this is a perfect place for the thread and I've never seen a bigger alphabete soup than on these threads - and i live in DC - the home of acronyms. I'm lost much of the time in those threads just trying to reaclimate myself to all those acronyms.


BTW, FWIW I now know what a LFE is EOM. {BG}


----------



## G-star

i found this in the subwoofer forum, an experienced member helped his buddy set up an unnamed HTIB, and tested the subs performance with the Avia calibration disc. from the description, it is pretty clear that it was an Onkyo sub from the 790 system:



> Quote:
> I helped a buddy set up his fancy new HTIB last night. I ran through Avia test disc and after playing with getting all of the speakers calibrated, I moved to the sub. When running the sweeps, this 230W 10 sub hit a cliff at 40hz, by 30hz it was silent until around 26hz or so it started to just rattle and make some awful noises, it was silent by about 23hz again. My old $100 10" 150W sub would eat it for lunch--despite it being rated as one of best HTIB systems you can get. I gues my original thought that that isn't saying much turned out to be true. I was suprised at how loud the little speakers could be, though. This was slightly surprising as another friend of ours has a system one step down from this one and does nothing but raves about how good the 8" sub is. Apparently, he is one of the lucky ones who can live with that ignorant bliss.
> 
> 
> After I had spent an hour or so on calibrating everything as best I could with what I had to work with, I put in a few of my favorite scenes just to see how it sounds. Well needless to say movies just are the same thing without the lower frequencies present. Ch 5 of WOW wasn't even a shell of its former self. The THX logo really lacked depth, explosions were just sound with no feeling. I guess I have become spoiled and really kind of forgot how most everyone else watches movies--its quite depressing and boring with no involvement or feeling.



upgrading my onkyo sub to something better (SVS PB10-ISD) was what opened my eyes to what real HT was. the sub is so important to an impactful HT experience, and it is often the weak point of so many HTIB's, and i think the onkyo 790 sub is one of the better HTIB subs out there!










so i strongly recommend investing in a good sub, even if it is at the $200 price point...it will make a BIG difference. objective data as outlined above clearly indicates just what you're missing by not going with a capable sub.


----------



## Noya

G-Star, I just wanted to say this thread is a great idea! I'm sure you've already saved many from buying a HTIB.


----------



## Partagas

To keep everyone happy they should just rename the HTIB forum Home Theater On a Budget HTIB/HTOB. That is what HTIB is anyway, this is just another option.


I am thankful for seeing this and the other threads like it on this forum because I just got my big screen and am a noob on a budget, so I went immediatly to the HTIB forum to decide what to get. The other forums for sound were too intimidating. I am not an audiophile but wanted a good sounding system. This is working out great.


----------



## bdizzle

Future proof budget receivers


to listen to TrueHD or DTS-HD, you need a receiver with certain capabilities. The cream of the crop of these receivers are way out of the price point of this thread, but there's a couple that are applicable. heres a short rundown on the features of these receivers


Panasonic SA-XR57 ($279)


HDMI inputs: 1

1080p over HDMI: No

Accepts LPCM over HDMI: Yes

Accepts LCPM over analog out: Yes

Does PLIIx on 5.1 sources over HDMI: No

Does PLIIx on 5.1 sources over Analog: No


Onkyo TX-SR604 ($399)


HDMI inputs: 2

1080p over HDMI: Yes

Accepts LPCM over HDMI: Yes

Accepts LCPM over analog out: Yes

Does PLIIx on 5.1 sources over HDMI: No

Does PLIIx on 5.1 sources over Analog: No


Checkout the respective threads of each receiver to get more info, but the SA-XR57, and the velodyne speakers could make a mean 5.0 combo for only $479 (would still need a sub tho).


I don't have a receiver yet since this is my 1st HT, but for the price I don't think you can go wrong.


----------



## gunfighter8

I went out and bought the Yamaha HTR-5740 HTIB a few years ago and would like to upgrade the speakers. The receiver is 90 watts by 6 channels. Everything I know about home theater is through word of mouth followed by some research. The buzz words I keep hearing are Klipsch and JBL. I don't mind dropping a little dough because I'll be spreading it out over some time but would like to keep it under or around $1000. My plan is to piece the system together down stairs and then move the HTIB to the TV room upstairs after I get the speaker and a new receiver(final piece of the puzzle because my yamaha speakers are crap right now and the 5740 will do for the time being). *What is your take on Klipsch and JBL?* Me and wife are big time movie people and do our electronics shopping at best buy. This is a great thread for people like me and just what I was looking for. Any feed back or suggestions would be most appriciated. Thanks, in advance.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gunfighter8* /forum/post/0
> 
> *What is your take on Klipsch and JBL?*



both good budget speakers, though different sounding. many (if not all...i'm not sure) klipsch speakers use horn tweeters, which produce a different sound than conventional dome type tweeters. i used to own a pair of JBL's from circa 1992, and they served me well for over 10 years. try and listen to both and see what you like better.


your receiver is fine for now, and would probably be the last thing to replace. for the sub, i would recommend internet-direct brands starting around $200+ for a taste of real bass. IIRC, the yamaha HTIB sub is passive, so a good powered ID sub will really open your eyes.










good luck on your quest and keep us updated.


----------



## Lingam

All,


I have been a lurker on here for quite a while. And I thought this is a good place to chime in with my opinion. I had read and gathered information for almost a year before starting to purchase my HT system. I came first to the HTIB forum because I like both uniformity of design and a good price point which is what HTIB offers. Gstar and others posts have been very informative. I was looking at the Onkyo 770 (at the time). After much reading in the forums, I found that the majority opinion was while the receiver was good the speakers we not on par. So when my old receiver died, I purchased the Onkyo 504. The next issue was the 15yo Fisher speakers I have. I again turned to the forums for guidance. And while looking for budget systems, I remembered Athena Speakers beening a very popular pairing with the Onkyo 504. I recently purchased at auction two AS-F1's two AS-B2's and a AS-C1 for 450 after shipping. So for 520 I have a 5.0 (soon to be a 7.1) surround system. So for just a little more than a good HTIB system, you can purchase a wonderful HT system, but patience is required to research and learn what (and when) to buy and what not to purchase. I have always believed that purchasing the best item only once is better than buying something lesser and then having to replace that with the best item later anyway.


FWIW


Lingam


----------



## Sig-Sauer

I posted this in anouther post but it seemed to fit here also. Frys.com has polk R150 bookshelvs for $49.99 per pair right now. Match 2 sets up with the CSi25 $99.00 center, and a cheap polk PSW10 at $199.00. then find even a super cheap $200.00 reciever for a package total of $600.00. This will pound the snot out of any HTIB i have ever seen


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I posted this in anouther post but it seemed to fit here also. Frys.com has polk R150 bookshelvs for $49.99 per pair right now.



good find! that's a good price for those polks...one could build a 5.0 system here for $200. excellent deal.


----------



## thirdmonkey

I came to this forum to figure out what HTIB I should buy on my budget (about $300). After reading this thread, I am rethinking that. I am (and most HTIB customers are) a noob to the audio world. So, how about reforming the awesome information in this thread and catering to the audience that this forum was created for (beginner HTIB people).


I have read every post in this thread (including the flames sadly) and there are a lot of components that are being recommended. But as a self-admitted noob, I do not know which components go together. I am sure there is such a thing as matching.


So, put together "HTIB solutions" for each given budget. Please include a DVD player.


Example:


Budget total: $300

Onyko 504s reform from buyonyko.com $169

xyz sub $80 from

2 speakers $50

...


Budget total: $500

....


Budget total $1000



My plan is to take maybe something in the $500 range and buy it in pieces. Start with a DVD and 2 speakers and go from there. (I've got a $50 gift cert. and $40 coupon from Circuit City that expires at the end of the month.)


Do this, and you have created a thread for this forum







(and me)


----------



## bdizzle

That's a good idea, but I dont think a dvd player is really needed to be included mainly because dvd is video


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thirdmonkey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, put together "HTIB solutions" for each given budget. Please include a DVD player.
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> 
> Budget total: $300
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Budget total: $500
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> Budget total $1000



i kicked around this idea at first, but didn't go that route b/c speakers are subjective, and good deals come and go all the time. so a good $500 solution might not be around two weeks from now. and there are just too many good options once you go north of $500, i wouldn't want to inadvertently box people in to a few solutions.


but i hear what you're saying...you need a jumping off point. that starts with a solid receiver. the 7.1 onkyo 504 for $169 refurbished is probably the best deal going in receivers.


the velodyne front row 5.0 system will get you to 5.0 with quality satellite speakers for another $200. some might opt to go for a pair of quality bookshelf speakers for about the same amount of $$, if he/she has the patience to build their system slowly. this is what i would do if starting over, as there are excellent budget speakers available from polk, athena, AV123, SVS, etc.


for the sub, there are a couple of decent performers for 

a good sub is the heart of a budget HT. the taste for bass is quite addictive, once you've heard what an exceptional sub can do. these subs though, are more for the $500+ crowd.


as for the DVD players, they are basically a dime a dozen. you can even get a brand name upconverting player for ~ $70, so i'll leave those discussions to the experts in the DVD forum.


take time, learn, ask questions. you'll be glad you did in the end.


----------



## jerkin

Just came across another pretty good receiver deal.

HK 145 $183 shipped: http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-...3969234&sr=8-1


----------



## cnosil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thirdmonkey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, put together "HTIB solutions" for each given budget. Please include a DVD player.
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> 
> Budget total: $300
> 
> 
> Budget total: $500
> 
> 
> Budget total $1000



In the $500 range I put the following system together and I am very happy with the results and performance out of the box. The system has the ability fill the room with sound and produce good bass when played loud, but it also performs well at lower volumes. Low volume is important to me especially when my daughter has gone to bed. I wouldn't hesitate to buy this setup again if I had to do it over.


refurbished Oknyo 504 receiver - $159 (shoponkyo.com)

Polk R15 (front and surround) - 2 pair @ $50 pair (pick these over the R150s because I wanted to wall mount them. (frys.com)

Polk Csi25 (center)- $70 (frys.com)

Velodyne Vx-10 (sub) - $159 (6ave.com)

Miscellaneous cables - $50 (monoprice.com and lowes)


My total system price including shipping is $558. Next on the list is to get a SPL from radio shack and fine tune the system. I already had a progressive scan DVD player so I didn't need one, but I agree that it would be considered a video component just like the TV.


----------



## pdadi

In the $600 range I have this:


Onkyo refurb 504 - $150

Velodyne CHT Front row speakers(5 peice) - $210

Bic H-100 sub - $230


Cables - $30 from monoprice/lowes.


Above one beats any HTIB out there in that price range. I listen this at -10 for movies and it rocks.


----------



## tractng

Guys,


In regards to Velodyne CHT Front row speakers, how are you mounting it?


Any back mounting points or do you have to build a mini shelf for it?


Thanks,

Tony


----------



## YoungB

I am looking at the following options for a 5.1 setup for about $800. What are your thoughts? Should I go in a different direction all together for the money and use?


4x Athena AS B1.2 $240

1x Athena AS C2.1 $150

1x HSU vtf-2 mk2 $400

subtotal $790


4X AV123 x-ls $440

1x AV123 x-cs $140

1x BIC H-100 $240

subtotal $820


Receiver

Onkyo TX-SR674


Use

90% Movies and Sports


Small room that does have an open stair case on 1 side

15x15x8



thanks,


YoungB

Nashville, TN


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YoungB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am looking at the following options for a 5.1 setup for about $800. What are your thoughts? Should I go in a different direction all together for the money and use?
> 
> 
> 4x Athena AS B1.2 $240
> 
> 1x Athena AS C2.1 $150
> 
> 1x HSU vtf-2 mk2 $400
> 
> subtotal $790
> 
> 
> 4X AV123 x-ls $440
> 
> 1x AV123 x-cs $140
> 
> 1x BIC H-100 $240
> 
> subtotal $820
> 
> 
> Receiver
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR674
> 
> 
> Use
> 
> 90% Movies and Sports
> 
> 
> Small room that does have an open stair case on 1 side
> 
> 15x15x8
> 
> 
> 
> thanks,
> 
> 
> YoungB
> 
> Nashville, TN



What do you like, a bright detailed sound or a warm detailed sound. I've heard the XL-S speakers and they are a hell of a bargain, excellent music and HT speakers. The Athena's I haven't heard. A friend had them, liked them, but they are bright, probably better for HT than music. Since you are an HT guy, I'd recommend the Athena package with the much better sub (makes a huge difference). My feeling is that the XL-Ss are the more refined speaker though.


----------



## YoungB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you like, a bright detailed sound or a warm detailed sound. I've heard the XL-S speakers and they are a hell of a bargain, excellent music and HT speakers. The Athena's I haven't heard. A friend had them, liked them, but they are bright, probably better for HT than music. Since you are an HT guy, I'd recommend the Athena package with the much better sub (makes a huge difference). My feeling is that the XL-Ss are the more refined speaker though.



Thanks Ron, I guess my lack of experience will show here as I don't know my preferences on warm or bright, but my gut is to get that sweet sub.







I keep reading that the sub will really sell the movie experience. How much better is the HSU vtf-2 mk2? Do you think I should be considering another Speaker and Sub combo? Again, Thanks for the help.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YoungB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, I guess my lack of experience will show here as I don't know my preferences on warm or bright, but my gut is to get that sweet sub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I keep reading that the sub will really sell the movie experience. How much better is the HSU vtf-2 mk2? Do you think I should be considering another Speaker and Sub combo? Again, Thanks for the help.



You're looking at very good choices...the B1, C1 combos are perhaps the best bang for the buck speakers discussed in the last year or so here (at those prices). The Bic H100 is a great entry level sub, but the Hsu stomps all over it. Anything else I'd recommend is way out of your budget.


To describe "bright" = crystal clear highs and detailed midrange that to some ears can be fatigueing or harsh after prolonged listening. Many prefer it, some don't.


Warm = softer, more mellow presentation, recessed highs with a detailed midrange. There's a ton of descriptives regarding sonic qualities of speakers soundstage and imaging. I'd point you to a glossary, but I'm too lazy. You have to listen to a number of offerings in order to decide what sound you prefer. That's what makes this fun.


Make a decision and start enjoying your system.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since you are an HT guy, I'd recommend the Athena package with the much better sub (makes a huge difference). My feeling is that the XL-Ss are the more refined speaker though.



i'd agree 100% with this. the AV123 speakers are probably better overall speakers than the athenas, but the Hsu sub is head and shoulders above the Bic, and you'll know why the minute you've got that thing calibrated and cookin'.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the title of this forum is sort of a misnomer. it is the best and most appropriate place for discussion of budget home theater/home theater in a box. this includes low cost component systems that compete with all-in-one-box systems, even if that offends your delicate sensibilities. all we're doing with this thread is trying to create a central place for people who want something more than a one-size-fits-all system to discuss their experiences.
> 
> 
> if you want to get the mods involved, go ahead and knock yourself out...there have been very successful threads on this topic in this very forum in the past. if you had been posting for more than a month or two, maybe you'd realize this.
> 
> 
> so, _with all due respect_, get your head out of your ass and ignore this thread if it upsets you so much.



My HTIB is the HT-S790 and for the price ($380.00) it sounds fantastic. Save your $$$ and get a HTIB, it's a better value. You would be hard pressed to find separates for under $1000.00 that would outperform this system.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdadi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the $600 range I have this:
> 
> 
> Onkyo refurb 504 - $150
> 
> Velodyne CHT Front row speakers(5 peice) - $210
> 
> Bic H-100 sub - $230
> 
> 
> Cables - $30 from monoprice/lowes.
> 
> 
> Above one beats any HTIB out there in that price range. I listen this at -10 for movies and it rocks.



The HT-S790 by Onkyo would outperform this set up and it's almost half the price.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You would be hard pressed to find separates for under $1000.00 that would outperform this system.



why do you even bother to post anything here? comments like these reveal the depths of your ignorance.


i guess you just have nothing better to do than to mindlessly type this drivel, as you clearly have no credibility here based on all of this crap you spew out that is just 100%, flat-out incorrect. why don't you face a wall and talk to it about your thoughts on the 790, it would be more effective than trying to influence the opinions of people around here.


----------



## YoungB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i'd agree 100% with this. the AV123 speakers are probably better overall speakers than the athenas, but the Hsu sub is head and shoulders above the Bic, and you'll know why the minute you've got that thing calibrated and cookin'.



The total budget is $1500, but I was figuring in the Onkyo 674 at $700. If I can grab it on ebay for $550ish , maybe I can swing the AV123s and the HSU subwoofer if I keep an eye out for discounts etc. That would be the best of both speaker options. Thanks again guys. I got more feedback here over night than I did in several days over on the speakers board.


----------



## flags

I will put the 790 up against anything that costs under $1,000.00


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will put the 790 up against anything that costs under $1,000.00



Hah...a member of the Flat Earth Society










I started with the Onkyo 770, essentially the 790 in a 6.1. config...best bang for the buck HTIB in 2004. I was a big fan. There were a number of critics on this forum back then and I argued with them...for about 4 months. Frys had a sale on Polk R30s for $100/pr, it was my son's birthday, so I bought him a pair. Before I gave them to him, I plugged them into the Onkyo fronts. It was truly amazing how much more detail and presence they had. So I started on the upgrade path.

I replaced everything with the following...


R50s - $160/pr

CSi3 - $70 off ebay

R15s - $50/pr

Cadence XSub (think Bic H-100) - $250

HK 235 - $240 refurb from HK Direct off ebay

=============================

$770


This was an excellent entry level HT that blew the doors off the Onkyo HTIB, which I sold for $335. Over the last couple of years, I've had a chance to listen to quite a few speakers and systems, there are a ton of almost as good, equal or better options than the one I chose for slightly less, equal or slightly more money.


I've since upgraded out of the entry level Polks into something really nice, but at resonable prices, so my system far exceeds in quality, the dollars I have in this hobby.


Educate yourself and explore this hobby or shutup and enjoy your Onkyo. Just don't spout off your ignorance.


----------



## Kysersose

flags has been warned before and has been given some time off.


Carry on,


Kyser


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Cadence XSub (think Bic H-100) - $250*



I wish I knew you had a Cadence because I was very curious about that sub. $229.00 shipped made me want it, but I kept hearing that many of the amps had a feedback issue - can't remeber where I read that. Oh well, I like my Hsu just fine.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wish I knew you had a Cadence because I was very curious about that sub. $229.00 shipped made me want it, but I kept hearing that many of the amps had a feedback issue - can't remeber where I read that. Oh well, I like my Hsu just fine.



The Cadence is a very good budget sub, built like a tank and very capable down to it's brickwall of 25hz. I had 2 for a while with the humm which I understand has been fixed now. Passed them on to my sons a couple of Xmas' ago. They think they are great. I like the Bic slightly better, but it's close.


Neither is in the same league as a Hsu sub, but they are a great first upgrade out of HTIB.


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...
> *Neither is in the same league as a Hsu sub, but they are a great first upgrade out of HTIB*.



Agreed. I wasn't sure when I was deciding on the Cadence and the Bic or whatever else is out there, and in the end I just decided to pony up a few more dollars for the Hsu. This was going to be my first sub and I didn't want to be disappointed and I'm not. I like clear bass and I also love it loud and deep. My wife get's so pissed now when we watch movies and it sounds good with music as well.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> flags has been warned before and has been given some time off.
> 
> 
> Carry on,
> 
> 
> Kyser



Thank you.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Agreed. I wasn't sure when I was deciding on the Cadence and the Bic or whatever else is out there, and in the end I just decided to pony up a few more dollars for the Hsu. This was going to be my first sub and I didn't want to be disappointed and I'm not. I like clear bass and I also love it loud and deep. My wife get's so pissed now when we watch movies and it sounds good with music as well.



My wife hates me too...


----------



## wrxdonkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YoungB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got more feedback here over night than I did in several days over on the speakers board.




+infinity.


This thread delivers like CJ Parker in a burlap wedding sack.


Thanks a ton, this thread really assisted me with narrowing down my options, and helping me setup what my price range needed to be to get what I expected from my speakers, and what pieces of hardware I "MUST" audition.


----------



## Drawde84

Hey everyone,


So my question is mainly a sub question, but I feel like I'm chased out of every sub forum with cries of "YOU CAN'T BUY ANY WORTHWHILE SPEAKER FOR LESS THAN $200". I really like this thread; if I had it earlier, I wouldn't have had to waste as much time trying to research home theater as I did in the past few months, but its reassuring that my planned setup includes every cheapest part you included here (2 pairs of Polk R15s, a Polk Center channel, an Onkyo SR-504 receiver, and a Dayton sub).


So my question is that, I'm set on getting a Dayton Sub because I really cant afford the extra money to buy a Bic H-100. (I'm so short on money that I'm not even going to buy my whole system at once. I'll start with 2.0. Then a few months later bring it to 2.1. Then to 4.1. And finally after 1-2 years from now probably bring it to 5.1). I'm looking at both the Dayton 10" and the Dayton 12". I'm going to use it in a common room of a row house for 5 people, but I don't know the dimensions yet except that it will probably be medium sized. You mentioned the Dayton 10" which is 125 watts and goes down to 30 hz, but the Dayton 12" is 150 watts and goes down to 25 hz. Is the 12" worth the extra $25? Which should I get?


Thanks for any help! I appreciate it!


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Drawde84


Frys.com still has the Polk R150s for 49.99 a pair (very similar speaker)

If cost is an issue and you like Polk this is a smoking deal

I see the R15s for 179.00 a pair, you could get your system much sooner

with the saveings


----------



## Sig-Sauer

JBL Balboa 30

Decent starter speaker $99.00 each right now


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Drawde84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You mentioned the Dayton 10" which is 125 watts and goes down to 30 hz, but the Dayton 12" is 150 watts and goes down to 25 hz. Is the 12" worth the extra $25? Which should I get?



the dayton subs were very popular with the budget crowd at one point, but i don't hear much about them anymore. between the two you mentioned, i would go for the 12" if possible, just for the added extension. i've heard grumblings about it in the past, but for $150 you'll probably be better off than with a comparable HTIB sub.


you might consider looking for a used sub on ebay, craigslist, or audiogon. buying lightly used gear from an upgrader is a great way to get more equipment than you could afford brand new, it just might take some patience. sounds like you're in no hurry though, so it might be something to think about.


----------



## Ron Temple

The Dayton's don't get much mention anymore because the last batch weren't as good as the first rev. The complaints were centered around build quality, sound quality (boomy 1 note wonders) and port noise for any sub 40hz content. That being said, it's still probably your best bet for a new sub and frankly I've heard less complaints about the 10".


Follow G-star's advice look used or for a special. Sometimes the Velo VX 10 can be had for ~ $150. It won't shake the house, but it is tuneful. Stay away from the Polk PSW10 or 12, they give those away with a speaker purchase, so they are always available on CL. They are awful, go with a Dayton instead.


----------



## Drawde84

Thanks for all the advice! Its really helpful.


I actually have another question too.

Whats the difference between the Polk RM6752 and the Polk CSi25? Both of them seem to be in around the same price range?

Which one is the better center channel speaker? And which one matches the Polk R15s better? And also, is the Polk CS1 significantly better?


Thanks again!!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Drawde84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the advice! Its really helpful.
> 
> 
> I actually have another question too.
> 
> Whats the difference between the Polk RM6752 and the Polk CSi25? Both of them seem to be in around the same price range?
> 
> Which one is the better center channel speaker? And which one matches the Polk R15s better? And also, is the Polk CS1 significantly better?
> 
> 
> Thanks again!!!



The CSi25 matches the R15s, but the CS1 is the better center. Either one will work fine.


----------



## studdad

Ok guys/gals, I have $1,200 to spend for a Home theater. I currently have an HDTV with one HDMI input. I am on DirecTV, and will be upgrading to HDTV and an HDTV DVR. I have a sony progressive scan DVD, but not sure if it has an HDMI in, so I may need a new DVD also. Of course, I want the best picture and sound possible for the money, but if a $100-$200 more is required to make a significant improvement, please let me know.


I would like a receiver with HDMI both in and out. ONE MAJOR OBSTACLE: We just put in Hardwood floors, and wiring to the back of the room is impossible (no walls to go through either). So, while I know the wireless rear speakers are inferior, I would prefer to have them so I can have a 5.1 or better system. If there are no wireless rears in a speaker package that would work, then I will have to settle for a 2.1 system, but would like some kind of surround simulation that works well. The room is large (about 400sq. ft.) so I need something with enough power to give me clear sound at higher volumes. Oh, I would also like to have HD upscaling if possible. I am getting the HD from Directv, but it is my understanding that I need upscaling to get a better picture for those programs that are not broadcast in HDTV (is that correct?). Ok, I know I have asked alot, but if you have time, could you also tell me how best to wire this puppy up. Assume I have the multiple HDMI in/out on the receiver, with upscaling capabilities. A Directv HDTV DVR. A DVD player with HDMI and upscaling. A Basic VCR, and of course the speakers you recommend. Thanks a lot!!!


George


----------



## Sig-Sauer

That is a kinda hard position to be in. I have not heard anything good about wireless systems available as of yet. Something to look into is some speaker wire i have seen that is super thin. You could possibly put it behind the wood trim along the floor. Also depending on the ceiling mabe some ceiling mounted surrounds with the wires ran in the attic. If that wont work your best choice is to get some nice towers for L and R , a nice center, and a good sub. The new Yamaha 661 is a nice budget receiver with HDMI i think it will meet the specs you requested look into it. You can find them for around $400.00 to $500.00. While i have no experience with them at all there is 5 channel soundbars http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...s/surroundbar/ 

mabe somone around here knows about them. Matched with a sub it could be a viable option for you.


----------



## studdad

bigsaucer, thanks for the info. Ya, I know I am in a bit of a bind. I know wireless rears are not great, but thats what I would have to use if I can't find a really good 2.1 with virtual surround. The space has no attic above. I don't think the Polk item would be a good choice for such a large room. But I do appreciate your help.


Is there anyone else that has any ideas. Even if there are good front speakers, and not so good wireless surround, that would be ok. Or a good 2.1 system with wireless surround capability. I have been looking at the Denon S301, but I think for the price or a little more, I could get better seperates,,,,especially more Input/Outputs, i.e. HDMI, as well as upscaling, and far better speakers. Anyway, I am hoping to get this accomplished soon, so any help would be very much appreciated.


George


----------



## studdad

oops, i meant sig-sauer, sorry


----------



## Sig-Sauer

So basicaly what you need to do is find a AVR you like. The only one i know of in the budget range that does what you mentioned is the Yamaha 661. I dont think it does it all but close. As far as speakers for a 2.1 setup it will depend on what you spend on a reciever and what style you want. There is soooo many options you really need to sample and pick a size/style that fits your needs. Then you need a sub, lots of options there also. Personaly i would go with a pair of Polk or Energy mid range towers and a Velodyne sub. Most of that stuff is available at large stores so you can sample sound quality.


----------



## studdad

Sig-Sauer, thanks for the info. I was looking around, and it looks like Accoustic Research is coming out with a wireless solution that is supposed to be pretty good. It is the model WHT6024. It comes out in April, and if it gets good reviews, then I will just have to find a good receiver to match with it. I have upped my limit to $1,500, which leaves me about $600 for the receiver (I left a little extra money for the upscaling DVD). Because it will be a 5.1 system, I wont need the virtual surround but would like as many features and HDMI ins/outs as possible. Any suggestions?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have upped my limit to $1,500, which leaves me about $600 for the receiver (I left a little extra money for the upscaling DVD).



that is a healthy budget for a 5.1 system. i would strongly urge you to reconsider the wireless aspect though...they have always been plauged with interference and poor SQ issues.


if it were me, i would allocate the funds as follows:


upscaling DVD player: 5 - 10%


7.1 receiver: 15 - 20%


ID sub: 30 - 35%


5 speakers: 45 - 50%


this is the most "bang for the buck" route IMO. at this pricepoint, a good quality sub and speakers will do far more for the overall HT experience than a $600 receiver.


----------



## studdad

G-Star, thanks for the advice. My only problem is I have hardwood floors, and due to the ceiling and wall layout, I am unable to run cables to the back. I figured I could either go wireless rears (if I could find something worthwhile) or a 2.1 setup. I was leaning towards the 2.1, with a good receiver that would allow me to upgrade later to 5.1 or larger when wireless got better, but then I saw the new introduction from Acoustic Reasearch that is coming out in April/May. According to the pre-reviews, it is supposed to be pretty good, so I thought I would wait and see what was said, i.e. distortion, once the product is introduced and reviews have been made. In regards to receivers, I would like one that is going to grow with me. I like the Yamaha rx661, as recommended by Sig-Sauer, but when looking at it, I also noticed the Yamaha rx861. The big difference, as far as I can see, is the upscaling (I love a great picture, particularly when watching regular shows on Directv) and about 15 more watts per channel (from 90 to 105). So..........please let me have your advice. The 861 is $400 to $500 more (twice the cost of the 661) but it does have the the two added advantages described above, and I would assume, probably has better guts. However, I am getting Directv HD with an HD DVR. Will going from regular Directv to Directv HD improve my regular tv picture (i.e. non HD programming)? I get a good picture now, but as I said, I want the picture as clear and crisp as possible. If the Directv HD does improve regular picture, do you think the upscaling from the 861 would make much of a difference? And finally, my room is about 400sq. ft. I would be using the receiver primarily for tv. Would the 90 watts per channel be sufficient, or would I need to go to the 861 (105 watts) to get the volume necessary for a room this size? Oh, I have an HDTV, but it is a Sony 36" tube, as I have not made the switch to LCD or Plasma yet. It is only about 1-2 years old, and was their top of the line tube (about $1,400 when I bought it). Just wanted to throw that in if it makes any difference in the response to picture (it has one HDMI input and no outs).


thanks again, and in advance to your reply.


----------



## G-star

studad,


as far as watts/channel goes, there will be practically no audible difference in going from 90 to 105w/c. in reality, both of those receivers probably run around 35w/channel continuously into all 7 channels. the lower end model will be more than enough for your needs.


as far as upscaling, remember that most of your components will be doing some kind of signal processing. DVD player, STB, HDTV...they all scale/deinterlace the signal to some degree. putting a receiver into the mix adds another step, and IMO, is unessecary and maybe even detrimental (don't want to "over-process" you video feed). i would forget about an upscaling receiver, and allow either the display or the video source take care of that for you.


receiver technology changes faster than speaker/sub tech. having it "grow" with you is a tall order, especially now that we are in the midst of a "growth spurt" with all of new HD technology. i would recommend you buy an entry level receiver and spend more on your speakers/sub. then upgrade the receiver in a few years when the HD dust settles.


good luck.


----------



## mrgribbles

Excellent post G-star. Read and heed advice.


----------



## jerkin

Studdad, don't know if this would be practical for you or not but I figured I'd throw it out there. I just bought a dremel tool and a plunge router base for it from Amazon (just for little stuff, fishing lures and such). While reading through the literature I came across a section where they had ideas for using the tool and one of them was removing your baseboard and routing a channel down the middle to hide otherwise exposed wiring.


I thought it was a pretty neat idea and when I saw your post I thought I'd mention it. I don't know if you're a diy guy or not but this seemed like something pretty simple. I wouldn't think it would take more than a couple hours to remove the baseboard, route a channel through it, tape the speaker wire in the channel and tack it back up. Just another option fwiw.


----------



## CrysDark

As with everyone else in here I am new to the HT arena.


I would like to take the advice of this thread and start small and build up what is the best bang for the buck for a starter system I can enjoy now?


I would like to stay in the 500 dollar range which I am sure means 2.1 but I am okay with that.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As with everyone else in here I am new to the HT arena.
> 
> 
> I would like to take the advice of this thread and start small and build up what is the best bang for the buck for a starter system I can enjoy now?
> 
> 
> I would like to stay in the 500 dollar range which I am sure means 2.1 but I am okay with that.



Have you considered the Onkyo HT-S790 HTIB? It is a very good system and will give you a really big bang for the buck!


----------



## studdad

G-star, thanks again, you have been very helpful. Jerkin, your idea is a good one, but the room is L-Shaped, (living/dining rooms) with some obstructions in the way, including doors, so not only would it be difficult, but it would need a really, really long cable. But thanks for the suggestion. Ok, I have a few more questions. You have convinced me I don't need the upscaling, but should I stick with the 661, or is there a cheaper, decent option with 2 HDMI ins and one out?

If so, please let me know what you suggest.


Now for the DVD. I have a Sony progressive scan model (DVP-NS725P). It has a great picture, but would a see a noticable difference with a new upscaling one? How about one with HDMI as opposed to component?


My TV only has one HDMI input (Sony KD-36XS955) so I figured I would have to wire my setup as follows (I am getting an HD DVR,,,,the HR20, which has me a little leary, but I want the HD and recording capabilities):



HD DVR to Receiver via HDMI


New HD DVD to Receiver via HDMI (or component if I don't get a new one)


VHS to receiver via whatever (rarely use it)


Speakers to Receiver via (whatever, I don't know what the new inputs are or look like for speakers. Please let me know)


Receiver to TV via HDMI.


Does this sound like the best way to set it up, or is there a better way that would give me better sound or picture?


Now my final item.....the speakers. My choices are either get a 2.1 system now and upgrade as wireless technology improves, or wait until the new Acoustic Research speakers come out in April/May (almost there) and see if their wireless rears are really the rage everyone is talking about. The speakers will retail for $799 for the 5.1 system, so I assume the cabled speakers are of good quality, but I have no clue. So, let me ask you guys if Acoustic Research is known for quality speakers? If not, then the 2.1 would be the option regardless. Now, lets say I do have to end up going 2.1, what speakers and sub would you recommend? And, should I get a receiver that offers virtual surround (I think the 661 one does, but I don't remember).


Again, you guys have been great, and I thank you very much for lending your expertise.


George


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread would also be good to people who start out with a HTIB and want to upgrade.
> 
> 
> Say you get a killer deal on a 790 from Shoponkyo, but after a while you get more in your budget and want better sound. Well, the receiver is roughly the same as the Onkyo mentioned in G-Star's link, so you're good to go there, just add the sub or speaker packages and you're on your way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a Bic H-100 is next on my list.



Some of us are more than satisfied with our 790's and really don't want or need to upgrade. After all how much better can excellent sound get? I would rather spend the extra $$$ on the more important things in life and i am sure others here feel the same way.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now for the DVD. I have a Sony progressive scan model (DVP-NS725P). It has a great picture, but would a see a noticable difference with a new upscaling one? How about one with HDMI as opposed to component?



The Oppo 970 is a very nice upscaler for smaller CRTs and as a bonus does 480i over HDMI, as well as, upscaling to 720P and 1080i. The SQ is excellent for this budget universal player...$150.



> Quote:
> My TV only has one HDMI input (Sony KD-36XS955) so I figured I would have to wire my setup as follows (I am getting an HD DVR,,,,the HR20, which has me a little leary, but I want the HD and recording capabilities):
> 
> 
> 
> HD DVR to Receiver via HDMI
> 
> 
> New HD DVD to Receiver via HDMI (or component if I don't get a new one)
> 
> 
> VHS to receiver via whatever (rarely use it)
> 
> 
> Speakers to Receiver via (whatever, I don't know what the new inputs are or look like for speakers. Please let me know)
> 
> 
> Receiver to TV via HDMI.



Yep, that'll work...


As far as speakers, I'd check out the Rocket X-LSs for $220/pr or the new EX upgrade for $300/pr...they will be exceptional. For a sub, I'll alway recommend the Bic H100 for ~ $250 for a starter, but for real quality and 2X the performance the SVS PB10NSD is amazing for ~ $450 shipped. This 2.1 setup offers exceptional quality above it's price point. If you choose to go this route, you will be hooked and I doubt you'll settle for wireless surrounds.


Good luck


----------



## studdad

Ron:


TY very much for the info. One problem, I could not find a pair of rockets for under $600. Do you know where I can find the ones for $250-300? Also, do they only come in that red finish? If so, I am not sure if they would pass the wife test. Any other suggestions?


----------



## studdad

Ron:


One other thing. Would the Oppo 981 for about $70 more be worth the investment for the DVD?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some of us are more than satisfied with our 790's and really don't want or need to upgrade.



that's fine...then this thread isn't for you.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After all how much better can excellent sound get?



if you're referring to the 790, it can get better. A LOT better. for not much more money. clearly you have nothing to compare your HTIB to, so don't you think it is a little ignorant to in effect say: "this is the only thing i've ever heard, it sounds good to me, so there must not be anything better out there".


there are inexpensive cars that get you where you need to go. spend some more money, and you'll have a car that gets you where you need to go, but with more power, finesse, style, and overall enjoyment. in the world of budget HT, the smart shoppers can get a taste of this for not much more than that entry level car. that's what we're talking about here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would rather spend the extra $$$ on the more important things in life and i am sure others here feel the same way.



great, then go spend your money as you see fit. some of us are willing to spend our $$ to go above and beyond the HTIB approach for the sake of great sound quality, as baffling as that may seem to you.


----------



## sambow87

Just for reference, I have the Onkyo HTIB HTS-790


If I were to upgrade just my fronts with the Polk R150s, would that be a wise decision to do for the time being? Will I get uneven sound since i'll still be using the original center channel that came with the HTIB?


Thanks


----------



## mbird

I tried out a pair of bookshelf speaker paradigms and _really_ liked the sound of those, especially compared with the onkyo htib speakers for music.


My uncle, who used to sell AV stuff recommended PSB, another canadian speaker brand and said that he liked their sound even more. While I've yet to try those out, I'm really excited about them.


My idea is to eventually get a pair of those psb image B15 speakers. Does anyone know how those sound and (when I eventually go to 5.1) how they are with the "cheaper" alpha series speakers as the rear/surround and with the c40 center speaker? Thanks in advance!


----------



## onebxr

This is what I have done over the last several months.

Before I came on this forum I went and bought a Pnny 50" plasma and a HTIB because my old receiver just didnt cut it anymore. I wish I had found out about alot of these options beforehand. But after reading alot of posts this is what I have done to rectify the situation.

The HTIB that I purchased was a Sony ht7000 for 499. I went for this for the HDMI (I didnt know what the hell passthrough meant but I sure as hell do now). So I went on the search for new speakers at a price point. I purchased the velo cht front rows and the Bic h-100 on monday. I havent received them yet but am anxiously awaiting my packages to arrive. My total came out to 439.00 for the speakers and 499 for the HTIB, I will be selling the speakers that came with the HTIB so maybe recoup some of that money, because they really are not very strong speakers.

I also want to know, why does everyone not like the sony receivers? These are all I have ever owned and I have never had a problem with them, but then again I have never really had a great system either. Any enlightenment on the sony question?

Thanks for a great post here, I have learned alot.

-Rich


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just for reference, I have the Onkyo HTIB HTS-790
> 
> 
> If I were to upgrade just my fronts with the Polk R150s, would that be a wise decision to do for the time being? Will I get uneven sound since i'll still be using the original center channel that came with the HTIB?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Try it and see how you like it...you can always turn up the center a few db until you replace it with a matching center. If there's a Frys around, pick up a pair for $100...return them if you don't like them.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron:
> 
> 
> TY very much for the info. One problem, I could not find a pair of rockets for under $600. Do you know where I can find the ones for $250-300? Also, do they only come in that red finish? If so, I am not sure if they would pass the wife test. Any other suggestions?


 http://www.**********/products_produc...s&product=82.1 


I've heard them and they are very nice, however the designer Danny Ritchie told me the new EX upgrade (tweeter and crossover) which is due out in April will make these speakers exceptional. av123 makes the Rocket and x-series...very highly regarded ID speakers.


On the Oppo, I have the 971 and love it on a 57" DLP. The 981 adds SACD and 1080P support. Both have the Faroudja chipset and per Oppo's site excel with larger screens. The 970 on smaller CRT screens offers equal PQ and better SQ. Unless you're going to go larger than 50", I don't think you'll notice any difference.


Good Luck


----------



## paulrbeers

I have lurked on the Avs Forums for many years. I am a big HTPC guy so I have used these forums for many years for that purpose. I have never believed in HTIB. Just never have. My parents have an HTIB and I hate it (also it is sony, so that doesn't help), but for them they aren't going to know the difference (or care). I put together my first "system" in college from about 1999-2000. I started off with a good set of fronts and a loaner set of surrounds and center and then added the other "parts". Problem is, I did a lousy job. I went all JBL, but different series of speakers that all have different DB sensitivity. I had Decade Series fronts with 92! DB sensitivity, and an HLS center with 88 and then some crappy 500 series surrounds with 86. I have always wanted to replace them all, but now I am married and own a house, etc etc and so I started to think that I was going to be stuck with an HTIB due to cost (let's face it once you are married....). Then I found this thread (and a few others here at Avs Forums) and the Acoustic Research ARVP25's sounded like the ticket (it also helped that I have bought from Mcminone before and they just sent me a 10% coupon) and ordered 2 sets. I also found the ARXP24C at Ebay for 63 delivered (rather than 74 thru JR). All told, my 5 speakers only cost me about 161 bucks for a very decent 5 speaker setup (I have a Velodyn CHT8? sub that should work just fine). I already have plans to pick up the ARXP62's if they go on sale or I just break down so that I can have a nice 7.1 system when I update my receiver (I was going to buy an Onkyo SR504, but then I read in a forum that the SR505 was going to have HDMI switching, not sure if that is true, but worth waiting to see).


Thank you for all your help (whether you realised it or not)!!!


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> that's fine...then this thread isn't for you.
> 
> 
> 
> if you're referring to the 790, it can get better. A LOT better. for not much more money. clearly you have nothing to compare your HTIB to, so don't you think it is a little ignorant to in effect say: "this is the only thing i've ever heard, it sounds good to me, so there must not be anything better out there".
> 
> 
> there are inexpensive cars that get you where you need to go. spend some more money, and you'll have a car that gets you where you need to go, but with more power, finesse, style, and overall enjoyment. in the world of budget HT, the smart shoppers can get a taste of this for not much more than that entry level car. that's what we're talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> great, then go spend your money as you see fit. some of us are willing to spend our $$ to go above and beyond the HTIB approach for the sake of great sound quality, as baffling as that may seem to you.



I have compared the 790 to a $3500.00 Bose system and the 790 sounds better.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have compared the 790 to a $3500.00 Bose system and the 790 sounds better.



that won't surprise anyone, bose HTIB's are some of the worst choices one can make if an accurate, full-range, deep-extension system is the goal. 90% of that $3500 price tag goes into all those expensive bose commercials we see on Discovery HD ad nauseum. don't believe me? go see how well-regarded bose is in the speaker forum.


have you ever heard a velodyne, SVS or HSU sub? how about a $100 pair of bookshelf speakers that can survive in the A/V market on their own merits?


----------



## sambow87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try it and see how you like it...you can always turn up the center a few db until you replace it with a matching center. If there's a Frys around, pick up a pair for $100...return them if you don't like them.




Can I use these for my fronts, and lets say further down the line, use them for my rears? Or should I get different speakers for my rears?


Thanks again! Might be buying these online (from Fry's) today!


----------



## studdad

Ron:


Thanks for your help. I will be looking for the EX upgrade this coming month. Things are coming together, and I am getting very excited!


----------



## adamanteus

hey guys. dont have an HTIB. but, has anyone mentioned the mission speakers over at tsto.com? if not i really recommend them. they range from low cost models to big $$. but really sound great no matter the price point. you can get the whole m70 cinema set (5.0) for about $300 shipped.


no affiliation to tsto- they are the only U.S. distributor for mission.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I use these for my fronts, and lets say further down the line, use them for my rears? Or should I get different speakers for my rears?
> 
> 
> Thanks again! Might be buying these online (from Fry's) today!



They will work very well as fronts...surrounds later.


Sorry, I was thinking you were talking about the R300s...the R150s are $50/pr on sale.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron:
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help. I will be looking for the EX upgrade this coming month. Things are coming together, and I am getting very excited!



There's a ton of info on these speakers on the av123 forums...you might want to check it out. Also, craigsub, on the Speaker forums here, is getting set to do a shootout between 4 sets of bookshelves, including the x-LS EX shortly.


A friend of mine has 2 sets of Danny Ritchie designed speakers. He did a mini-review on the x-LS and I got a chance to hear them. They have no business being this good for the price and the EX will be better...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=29936


----------



## studdad

Ron:


Sounds great. I will check out the forum and the shootout. Thanks again.


----------



## studdad

G-star, I want to thank you for all your help as well. You guys have been great!!! Of course I will look at the shootout on the bookshelf speakers, but as it stands now, I am looking at the following setup:


Yamaha 661 receiver


x series front speakers (probably the EX)


Bic H100 sub OR SVS PB10NSD sub, just depends on how much I want to spend


Oppo DVD, probably the 981. I know the 970 would probably work just as well, but I may be upgrading my TV to 50+ LCD or Plasma in the next year


One last thing...this will obviously be a 2.1 system, to start at least, is there any reason to have a center channel? I don't know if that offers anything extra in a 2.1 channel system, but if it does, I would like to know what.


I would also like other peoples feedback on this setup....I think I got excellent advice, but if someone has a different opinion for one reason or another, please let me know.


Thanks again G-star and Ron


----------



## studdad

Hey again:


I am looking at pricing. I found the Yamaha 661 for $399.99 at etronics. Other places have it at $499 or $549. I have heard you need to go to an authorized Yamaha dealer, or your warranty will be void. Is this correct? If so, does anyone know if etronics (web page) is authorized?


----------



## sambow87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They will work very well as fronts...surrounds later.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I was thinking you were talking about the R300s...the R150s are $50/pr on sale.




Actually, just made an order for 2 R300s, going to get the R150s as well!


Now I just need a way of getting a good center for on the cheap.


Thanks again!


----------



## sambow87

Oh and just wondering, I can't seem to find it on Outpost, but they do ship UPS right and now USPS? Thanks!



Found out they use DHL after calling. Still very excited about these new speakers! Hopefully will see a huge improvement over the Onkyo HTIB speakers.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey again:
> 
> 
> I am looking at pricing. I found the Yamaha 661 for $399.99 at etronics. Other places have it at $499 or $549. I have heard you need to go to an authorized Yamaha dealer, or your warranty will be void. Is this correct? If so, does anyone know if etronics (web page) is authorized?



Etronics is not an authorized Yamaha dealer and you do need to purcase from and anuthorized dealer or Yamaha will not honor the waranty.


Some non authorized retailers offer their own waranty, be careful if you go this route and get all the details. I've found with alot of them they don't start until the manuf waranty has expired, even though it's not valid.


Here is a list of Yammy authorized dealers, scroll to the bottom.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/d...x?CTID=5010030


----------



## buzzy_

This thread is a great idea, though honestly you have to update the OP over time for it to really work well.


Also, to me there's some huge gaps in the discussion around how people are going to use the system. Maybe you're assuming that since we're talking about HT, people are going to use it mostly or exclusively for HT (and games or similar stuff). And from people's posts, that may well be the case.


But to me there ought to be a big footnote that says, if you're going to listen to music as much or more - you have to take that into account for what you buy.


Ideally people might comment on which systems might be better for HT, music, or a mix. Eg from what I've heard and read, the Velodyne Front Rows are a good bet for HT, a bit less so for music.


And maybe nobody who comes here fits in this category - but If you listen to music mostly, you might do better spending your speaker budget on 2-3 speakers, depending on whether you listen to enough HT to want a center. Hook up two really cheap speakers in the back if you want to. Or not - not that much comes out of the surrounds, anyway.


Whether you get a sub depends on the speakers, your budget and your tastes.


Finally, it's worth mentioning used speakers. If the reason you're considering HTIB is to save budget, not time - you can find some amazing speakers used for not a lot of money. It does take time, but if that's the kind of thing you enjoy doing you can learn a lot, and end up with better speakers than all your friends, probably, too. If you have enough space, you can buy killer used floorstanders for not a lot of money on craigslist, etc, these days as people replace them with smaller speakers. And if you're willing to spend the time, and enjoy looking, you can find great bookshelves, too. I've seen older high quality speakers for $100-200 a pair.


----------



## studdad

Jakeman, thanks for the info. I guess $499 is the best buy


----------



## studdad

Buzzy,


My projected system is listed above. I know very little about all this, but with the help here, I feel confident I will be getting a good bang for the buck. Let me ask you though (again, knowing very little) would a center speaker for a 2.1 system do me any good, or should I wait until I upgrade to 5.1,,,,,if I ever do. My interest is primarily HT (about 95% of the time) over music.


Thanks


----------



## Ron Temple

A timbre matched center is important for HT as it nails the dialog to the screen with a large sweetspot. A large percentage of the front soundstage content comes out of the center from Dolby Digital and DTS sources (movies). So it's something to consider. If you have no center, the content is directed to the 2 front speakers, which, depending on placement will lock the dialog in and around the sweeptspot, but might be a bit diffuse in off axis seating positions. If you can swing a 3.1 go for it.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey again:
> 
> 
> I am looking at pricing. I found the Yamaha 661 for $399.99 at etronics. Other places have it at $499 or $549. I have heard you need to go to an authorized Yamaha dealer, or your warranty will be void. Is this correct? If so, does anyone know if etronics (web page) is authorized?



I misread your post. Sorry.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would seriously consider the HT-S790. It has a better rating.



Again wrong


----------



## CrysDark

My question got lost in flag's trumpeting of the s790 (does he work for them???)


Can anyone recommend a good starter system for around 500, something with a good tuner(?) that I can upgrade to better speakers later, but something I could still enjoy now?


----------



## studdad

Ron:


considering i go with the the speakers you suggested (probably the EX's), what would be a good center match?


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dchanman01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You need to calm down cause I ain't upset at all over your thread so leave out the dirty words. I do honestly feel your thread belongs elsewhere. If you are doing budget HT with component stuff it's not a HTIB so it shouldn't be here, that's all.
> 
> 
> My time on this MB has nothing to do with it. I'm on 6 other MB's relating to other interests of mine so just because you have lots of posts here compared to me doesn't mean ****. You know stuff I don't and vice versa.
> 
> 
> Take a valium and good night.
> 
> 
> I find it amusing that you are specifically targeting your bashing on the 990 yet I see no posts from you in the official ht-s590 thread................hidden agenda in the making????????



Send me info on building a $500.00 system that is better than the 790.


----------



## Leftey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, G-Star please don't ruin the thread.



I smell an IP boot real soon for you.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leftey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I smell an IP boot real soon for you.



Why do you say that?


----------



## Leftey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?



You are instigating, annoying (but somewhat entertaining, kinda like watching the special Olympics) and have absolutely no forum etiquette. You have said it so many times how you feel about the 790. NOBODY cares! You are beating a dead horse just about everyday. But this is getting greatly off topic and I'm done with this dead horse.


----------



## CrysDark

I don't know what to think about flags, he obviously has a passion for his purchase and wants to back it up.


But you are bordering on being annoying, your passion has gotten me to check out your setup, and while I find it interesting, the advice of everyone else in this thread is more compelling.


I just want to set up a 2.1 right now, (what is the .1 anyways?)


I am thinking the

Onkyo TX-SR 504 ($169)

Polkr R15 ($75/pr):

Polk Audio RM6752 ($79):


Just to get started as I live in a small apartment. I am not looking for blow your mind sound, just better than what I am getting out of the TV speakers.


----------



## studdad

CrysDark:


The .1 is the sub


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what to think about flags, he obviously has a passion for his purchase and wants to back it up.
> 
> 
> But you are bordering on being annoying, your passion has gotten me to check out your setup, and while I find it interesting, the advice of everyone else in this thread is more compelling.
> 
> 
> I just want to set up a 2.1 right now, (what is the .1 anyways?)
> 
> 
> I am thinking the
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR 504 ($169)
> 
> Polkr R15 ($75/pr):
> 
> Polk Audio RM6752 ($79):
> 
> 
> Just to get started as I live in a small apartment. I am not looking for blow your mind sound, just better than what I am getting out of the TV speakers.



Sorry if I seem to be passionate about the 790. I spent a lot of time researching prior to my purchase and am just trying to save others time and $$$ on a nice system that is reliable and a bargain at the price it's selling for. When set up properly it truly does surround you in awesome sound for the price point. It makes stereo seem old fashioned in many ways. I do like the ipod feature, the radio and other features this system has that cannot be found elsewhere for $375.00. Anyway I just wanted to explain why I recommend this system to others.

Sorry to have bothered you. Good luck with your choice.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leftey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are instigating, annoying (but somewhat entertaining, kinda like watching the special Olympics) and have absolutely no forum etiquette. You have said it so many times how you feel about the 790. NOBODY cares! You are beating a dead horse just about everyday. But this is getting greatly off topic and I'm done with this dead horse.



Thank you and I praise you for your honesty without being nasty. You sir, are a gentleman.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just want to set up a 2.1 right now, (what is the .1 anyways?)
> 
> 
> I am thinking the
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR 504 ($169)
> 
> Polkr R15 ($75/pr):
> 
> Polk Audio RM6752 ($79):



i'd go for the receiver for sure, and the polk R15's. for the sub, take a look at the velodyne VX-10. athena P4000, or Bic H-100. this would be a solid 2.1 system with plenty of room to grow.


the polk 5.1 package would be OK, but the speakers would be smaller and the sub would not be as good as some of the others i mentioned, especially the Bic.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if I seem to be passionate about the 790. I spent a lot of time researching prior to my purchase and am just trying to save others time and $$$ on a nice system that is reliable and a bargain at the price it's selling for.



there's an enormous thread dedicated to the 790...do us all a favor, and take your passion for it there.


this thread is for people who want to go above and beyond the HTIB approach on a budget. you've repeatedly made your point about your thoughts on the onkyo system...enough. let's move on to more useful discussions of putting together component systems.


----------



## mbird

Question - If I were to start off with a stereo setup and wanted to expand in the future (maybe a year or two later), how would I find matching components for the center and surround speakers? Any suggestions, like for the psb setup I envisioned earlier? Thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron:
> 
> 
> considering i go with the the speakers you suggested (probably the EX's), what would be a good center match?


 http://www.**********/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=91.1 


I'm sure this will be available with the EX upgrade as well.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am thinking the
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR 504 ($169)
> 
> Polkr R15 ($75/pr):
> 
> Polk Audio RM6752 ($79):



Try 4 R150s from outpost @ $100.00

A CSi25 from outpost @ $70.00

The Onkyo @ $170


Then shop for the sub...the Bic would be my recommendation, but it puts you slightly over your budget...I've seen Velo VX10s for ~ $160...it's a tuneful sub that doesn't go very deep (~30hz), but it will eat a HTIB sub alive.


Velo sub @ $160

-------------------------------

$500 or ~ $600 for the Bic


This would be a damn fine entry level HT, excellent for movies and very good for music.


----------



## studdad

Ron,


Thanks again!!


----------



## mcp66

Very informative thread. I have a quick question if someone has an answer or opinion.


I bought the Onkyo 504, the $200 velodyne cht speakers and am shopping for the sub.



My question is about setting up the system as 7.1 (future) using the four velodynes for surround and adding the Polk R20 speakers a for the from left and right (I have a pair of Polk R20 speakers from a few years back).


Will this work ok?


I am not an audiophile or anything like that, just want a decent HT setup to enjow with wife and family. I Also have 50" panasonic plasma and oppo 170, if that matters.


Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## onebxr

you can get the bic h-100 for 239.00 on ebay from acoustech. Just make sure you make an offer you may get it for less than that.

-1


----------



## sambow87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try 4 R150s from outpost @ $100.00
> 
> A CSi25 from outpost @ $70.00
> 
> The Onkyo @ $170
> 
> 
> Then shop for the sub...the Bic would be my recommendation, but it puts you slightly over your budget...I've seen Velo VX10s for ~ $160...it's a tuneful sub that doesn't go very deep (~30hz), but it will eat a HTIB sub alive.
> 
> 
> Velo sub @ $160
> 
> -------------------------------
> 
> $500 or ~ $600 for the Bic
> 
> 
> This would be a damn fine entry level HT, excellent for movies and very good for music.




Ron, I just purchased the R300s and R150s, but did not see the CSi25 for 70? Also is that a good center to match everything? Sorry to derail the other question, but you've given me some excellent information so far










Sam


----------



## flags

I misread the post.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron, I just purchased the R300s and R150s, but did not see the CSi25 for 70? Also is that a good center to match everything? Sorry to derail the other question, but you've given me some excellent information so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam



It goes on sale from time to time for $70...just have to keep looking...today it's $100.

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/446...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


It is the match for the R series, the CS1 will be very close and offer a bit more punch and perhaps clarity, the CSi3 which I still have is a brighter speaker and matches their RTi line. It's a decent match, offers excellent dialog clarity, but you can tell the difference between the center and the Rs. Anyway, if you can't score a CSi25, looked used for either the CS1 or CSi3 for


----------



## sambow87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It goes on sale from time to time for $70...just have to keep looking...today it's $100.
> 
> http://shop2.outpost.com/product/446...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> 
> It is the match for the R series, the CS1 will be very close and offer a bit more punch and perhaps clarity, the CSi3 which I still have is a brighter speaker and matches their RTi line. It's a decent match, offers excellent dialog clarity, but you can tell the difference between the center and the Rs. Anyway, if you can't score a CSi25, looked used for either the CS1 or CSi3 for
> 
> 
> 
> So the Polk Audio CSR Center Channel is not the right match for the R300s and R150s? The CSi25 is?
> 
> 
> Which is better, the CSR or the CSi25?


----------



## buzzy_

I have no idea how the subs mentioned here compare in terms of quality, but FWIW the regular price (when it's in stock) of the Velodyne VX10 is $170 at Vanns - w/ free shipping, no sales tax, and decent customer service. So compare that to your other options.


PS o n e c a l l dot com is has the NHT SuperZeroXUs on clearance at $80 each

http://www._necall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=1107


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So the Polk Audio CSR Center Channel is not the right match for the R300s and R150s? The CSi25 is?
> 
> 
> Which is better, the CSR or the CSi25?



The CSR and/or the CSM is the CSi25 slightly different dimensions and cosmetics, but virtually the same.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Studdad


I have a Yamaha 661 and some polk R150 surrounds i will hook up tonight and see how it sounds with 2.1. Then i will add in my Polk CS1 center and let you know how much difference it makes. These speakers are similar to what you are looking at so it should provide some good info. I think for movies the 3.1 will sound much better though.


----------



## studdad

Sig-Sauer


That would be great, Thank you very much. And thank you for the help you have given me earlier.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Studdad
> 
> 
> I have a Yamaha 661 and some polk R150 surrounds i will hook up tonight and see how it sounds with 2.1. Then i will add in my Polk CS1 center and let you know how much difference it makes. These speakers are similar to what you are looking at so it should provide some good info. I think for movies the 3.1 will sound much better though.



I love Polk speakers...I've explored all their current lines and some of their vintage stuff. You can't go wrong with Polk either, but my recommendation stands at studdad's budget.


----------



## Drawde84

Hi!


So while reading this thread and others, it seems like around half the people looking for budget systems get Velo CHT Front row speakers, and the other half get 4 Polk R150s + a Polk CSi25, or similar to that.


I would appreciate it if someone could comment on the differences between the choices? Is one better for music and other better for home theater? Anyone know if one is more warm or bright or anything?


Thanks!!


----------



## Ron Temple

The difference is midrange. The Velos are satelites and easily mountable. I haven't heard the CHT, but generally a bookshelf will provide a much fuller sound. Whether it's warm or bright will depend on the speaker mfg's design choice. The R15s I had were detailed, but not overly bright. I'm sure the R150s are very similar.


The Polk R series is a real value at the prices offered by Frys/Outpost. I had an R system for over a year and now my son's are enjoying their own. They are a great bang for the buck HT speaker and fine for music (world's better than HTIB speakers). However, if you are a critical music listener , you'll notice that they lose a bit of detail when you crank it (>95dbs). This is not a knock, most won't notice this. I didn't until I started listening to higher priced speakers from Polk and other brands. For $50/pr you can't do better. The Athenas @ ~ $100/pr are better and as you move up the food chain there are lots of better speakers.


I've recommended Polks for along time, I just wanted to be clear...you get what you pay for...but try to do it on sale







.


----------



## Vidmaven

I would like to mention the Mission M70 system for $239 + shipping.

Nice system when paired with a decent sub.

If you are looking for a little more oomph you can get the center channel and 4 M31s for $400 + shipping or 2 M31s for mains and 2 M7ds bipoles for rears for a little less.

M70 system: http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229 


M31: http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2321 


M70: http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2191 


Bipoles: http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2245 


Center: http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2227


----------



## studdad

Ron:


Yeah, I'm going to stick with the ones you recommended. I already had my mind made up t buy the center speaker as well, but thought it would be interesting to hear Sig-Sauer's comments on the difference the center speaker made when added.


----------



## CrysDark

Is a sub a necessity if I am just trying to improve the quality from my TV speakers? I live in an apt so I can't rock the place, lol


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is a sub a necessity if I am just trying to improve the quality from my TV speakers? I live in an apt so I can't rock the place, lol



that depends largely on your goals/expectations, and the size of your main speakers.


no pair of bookshelf speakers will reproduce the lowest frequencies found in movies and some types of music. large floor-standing speakers will dig deeper, but still not approach the lowest octaves like a sub will.


a good subwoofer, properly integrated into your system, will "disappear" and fill out the bottom end of audible sound, giving everything a more rich, full, and deep sound. a great subwoofer will do all of the above, plus reproduce the lowest frequencies (

for me, no HT is complete without a good sub...it really makes or breaks the system. if such things aren't high on your priority list, or you have other concerns, a good pair of decent sized speakers can get you by.


----------



## CrysDark

I just want the starter system to be better than my tv speakers, it was why I was going with 2 bookshelfs and a center. (I thought that was 2.1 silly me). I figure to spend a little extra on the tuner(?) that way I can upgrade to better.


Another question, My TV stand may not fit the tuners(?) I see posted on here, are they any of these deals on a good tuner that does not have such a high profile (height).


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just want the starter system to be better than my tv speakers, it was why I was going with 2 bookshelfs and a center. (I thought that was 2.1 silly me). I figure to spend a little extra on the tuner(?) that way I can upgrade to better.
> 
> 
> Another question, My TV stand may not fit the tuners(?) I see posted on here, are they any of these deals on a good tuner that does not have such a high profile (height).



By tuner maybe you mean receiver?


The all-digital amps like the Panasonic XR55 or XR57 are much more compact than traditional amps. I think the 55 is linked in the first post here.


Personally I think a 3.0 system is a good place to start for you. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a lot better than your TV speakers.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Studdad


As expected the center made a big difference in movies. I would say that it is by far the most important speaker in the system in a 3.1 setup. I found that if i set the system up with the center as a large speaker and the L and R as small it sounded the best. For kicks i also added in some old pioneer HTIB speakers i had and ran them on the presence channel, they made a noticable difference in room filling sound.


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By tuner maybe you mean receiver?
> 
> 
> The all-digital amps like the Panasonic XR55 or XR57 are much more compact than traditional amps. I think the 55 is linked in the first post here.
> 
> 
> Personally I think a 3.0 system is a good place to start for you. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a lot better than your TV speakers.



That won't be hard, I heard the speaker pop and crackle yesterday while watching house and i almost cringed....


Another question, I have the sharp 46d92u with removable speaker, there are some speaker outs there.. Would I see an immediate difference if I wired the speakers to that, or should I just leave it alone and get a receiver?


sorry for the newbness.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another question, I have the sharp 46d92u with removable speaker, there are some speaker outs there.. Would I see an immediate difference if I wired the speakers to that, or should I just leave it alone and get a receiver?



any decent pair of speakers needs power to drive them, and i doubt your TV has much amplifer power. there are also impedance issues to worry about. i'd recommend you grab a receiver and a decent pair of speakers to start off, see if you like the improvement, and if you want to go any further.


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> any decent pair of speakers needs power to drive them, and i doubt your TV has much amplifer power. there are also impedance issues to worry about. i'd recommend you grab a receiver and a decent pair of speakers to start off, see if you like the improvement, and if you want to go any further.



Will the bookshelfs act as a center or do I keep the tv speaker for a center.


----------



## pm2501

In the OP (original post) the POLK RM6752 is listed as an example of a center speaker, but the OP doesn't specify any speaker packages. Would picking up the RM6750 set being a good idea, sound-wise? Reviews I've read on Amazon indicate that the speakers are good one, with the exception of the sub. You can usually pick these up fairly inexpensively (e.g. Fry's has the RM6750 for $199)


... As opposed to buying a complete HTiB or all the speakers separately, what are recommendations and price ranges for 5, 6 and/or 7 speaker _packages_?


Another option I'm looking at is grouping up an Onkyo TX-R504 with 3 pairs of R150s with the CSi25 for the center. The problem I run into here is headroom. I'd like to ceiling-mount these since the space for my HT is -half- (or roughly 3/7ths) of a basement --- a basement with only 8 foot ceilings. I fear that the 10 5/8" high R150s will be too long when hooked up to a ceiling speaker mount. I'd hate to have good sound and constnatly bump my head into one or more of the speakers.


This is why I wonder if waiting for the 6750 5.1 system is the best bet or if I should go with the Velodynes ... God, I just wish they could come in something other than white.


----------



## studdad

Sig


Thanks for the info. I had already made up my mind to get the center, but your info. makes me feel good about spending the extra $ for one.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will the bookshelfs act as a center or do I keep the tv speaker for a center.



You'd want to turn the TV speakers off.


You can use 2 speakers to create the effect of a "phantom center". If


A - your receiver does a decent job of routing the center channel audio to the the 2 sides, and


B - you're the only one watching TV and are sitting in the right spot, or you're all sitting close to each other in the same spot, and you always sit only in that spot (or along a line in between the two speakers) - so that everyone watching is hearing balanced sound from both speakers - then the voices will seem to come from the center.


... then it might work in your situation to not use a center. There are long threads about that in the speaker forums.


Unless someone really matches point B above, or is on such a tight budget that they couldn't get decent speakers if they had to buy 3 instead of 2 - most people would want to get a center speaker. But you can always try it without and see how you like it with 2.


----------



## sambow87

Just got my Polk R300s. Just a few Q's:


Do I need to change the crossover? I have it set at 100 right now.


I have the speakers set to large (the fronts, well, since they are large







) but is there anything else I need to change?


Thanks!


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just got my Polk R300s. Just a few Q's:
> 
> 
> Do I need to change the crossover? I have it set at 100 right now.
> 
> 
> I have the speakers set to large (the fronts, well, since they are large
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but is there anything else I need to change?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I would lower the crossover to 80 and if you have a sub in the system change the speakers to small, if no sub then keep them at large.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would lower the crossover to 80 and if you have a sub in the system change the speakers to small, if no sub then keep them at large.



Yes


----------



## slubu

You guys are all very informative and I enjoy asking for your advice. On setting up a system, I live in a small condo but my living room is pretty open. I have a 52" DLP and will be getting the Onkyo 504 and Bic Sub from ebay. I have a few questions though hopefully some can answer:


- For the speakers, I don't see those CHT Velodynes on the site anymore, where can I get them?

- Any suggestions on wireless rear speakers that would provide good sound? Or should I stick with conventional surround speakers with wires (where do you hide the wires from the front of the room to the back?)

- Where do the surrounds go? (excuse the ignorance)


Thanks! I would like to spend around 600 or so. I watch mostly TV, sports, movies, sitcoms. Not much on music.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys are all very informative and I enjoy asking for your advice. On setting up a system, I live in a small condo but my living room is pretty open. I have a 52" DLP and will be getting the Onkyo 504 and Bic Sub from ebay. I have a few questions though hopefully some can answer:
> 
> 
> - For the speakers, I don't see those CHT Velodynes on the site anymore, where can I get them?
> 
> - Any suggestions on wireless rear speakers that would provide good sound? Or should I stick with conventional surround speakers with wires (where do you hide the wires from the front of the room to the back?)
> 
> - Where do the surrounds go? (excuse the ignorance)
> 
> 
> Thanks! I would like to spend around 600 or so. I watch mostly TV, sports, movies, sitcoms. Not much on music.



you can find the velodyne cht speakers at the link below. I would stick with wired for the rears you give up quite a bit of performance with wireless and invite a host of new problems.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...x?sid=326j719n


----------



## ChachiB

Hey guys..great forum here. I am a totaly newbie, and this really helped me TONS. I am purchasing a 50'' panny professional model, so I decided I would update my stereo system as well. After my initial research, I was so dizzy from all the terms, I was leaning towards getting a HTIB just for the ease of it. But this forum has been totally helpful. So for my system, I plan on spending around $700 or so for a 2.1 system (speakers and receiver), and then updgrading as I go along. Right now I am thinking about this:


Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR604

Spearkers: Either the AV123 x-ls Bookshelf pair, or the Polk Audio RTi4 pair.

Sub: Bic H-100


I use my system for about 50% music, 50% TV/movies. Does this seem like a good starter 2.1 set that I can build around (meaning will the bookshelves hold up since the TV has no speakers, and I will be using it for EVERYTHING?)? (I live in a studio co-op apt, FYI). Can anyone reccomend one of the above speaker options, or offer up another option (I would be willing to go a tab bit more expensive). Thanks for any help at all!!!!!


----------



## buzzy_

chachi -


the 604 seems a good bet.


most people seem to recommend the x series over the polks.


you might want to look into the x sub and see how people think it compares to the h 100.


slubu -


where do the speakers go? this would be a good thing for everyone getting their first 5.0 or 5.1 system to read, ought to be in the first post ...

ecoustics 

Crutchfield Advisor


----------



## ChachiB

Thanks for the response Buzzy. So I am on the right track, right? This I assume is a better start than being lazy and going for one of the HTIB (especially if I add on more speakers in the months to come...)?


----------



## Ron Temple

The Rti 4s are very nice speakers too...they will sound more detailed than the x-LSs with a very good midrange and mid bass down to around 60hz. The x-LS speakers will sound warmer and a tad laid back. It's really a question of taste, both are well made and they don't sound alike. Depending on what you like in a speaker you'd probably be happy with either, but I'd recommend a listen to the Polks. If you find them bright, go for the x series.


----------



## sambow87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would lower the crossover to 80 and if you have a sub in the system change the speakers to small, if no sub then keep them at large.




Even if the speakers are large? I mean, it would be going against what the manual says, correct?


Also, will I get any bass from the speakers after changing them to small (The Polk R300s).


Thanks again for the responses!


Sam


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Even if the speakers are large? I mean, it would be going against what the manual says, correct?
> 
> 
> Also, will I get any bass from the speakers after changing them to small (The Polk R300s).
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the responses!
> 
> 
> Sam



This is a very subjective call. Three things to consider are: 1) How is the bass extension of the main speakers into the lower frequency. If you get good bass response from the woofers and more detail, you may want a lower crossover, let the sub come in later. 2) If your sub does a good job with upper frequency detail and you get more desirable effect, you may want to up your crossover and set the mains to small. 3) If you find that the woofers and sub mix well until the mains drop out, then set them to large with a mid range crossover (80-100hz) for more mixing, detail + effect.


Experiment. Take a track with good bass detail, perhaps bass guitar or the like. Play it with just the mains on - turn off the sub - and see how it sounds. Turn on the sub. Set the crossover high - 120+ and the mains to small, play the same track. Etc., etc., for the various configurations. I did this with the opening music from Kill Bill vol 1 (excellent bass guitar) and wound up with the mains Large, double bass and the crossover @ 80 (although I believe that the crossover is moot with double bass setting on). I'll play it like this for awhile until I feel the need to tinker again


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChachiB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response Buzzy. So I am on the right track, right? This I assume is a better start than being lazy and going for one of the HTIB (especially if I add on more speakers in the months to come...)?



absolutely, this is how i would have done it if i was starting over. i grew tired of my HTIB's shortcomings rather quickly and ended up selling it in pieces and slowly buying new gear.


as far as the speakers, i would demo both choices if possible, it is always the best way to go. both choices are clearly a significant step up from HTIB speakers, though.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> absolutely, this is how i would have done it if i was starting over. i grew tired of my HTIB's shortcomings rather quickly and ended up selling it in pieces and slowly buying new gear.
> 
> 
> as far as the speakers, i would demo both choices if possible, it is always the best way to go. both choices are clearly a significant step up from HTIB speakers, though.



HTIB's sell by the millions every year. Why do you try to impose your will upon others? You like what YOU like. Let others make their own choices instead of what YOU think they should do. They should go to places like Circuit City and let their ears do the choosing. Lighten up G-Star!


----------



## studdad

Hey Everyone:


I have everything ordered, now comes the wait. I went with the following


Yamaha 661 receiver

x-ls speakers

x-ls center speaker

x-sub (explanation below)

24" x-ls speaker stands

Oppo 981 DVD



Ok, I was going to go with the Bic sub, but it did not pass the wife test. She wanted the woodgrain finish on the speakers, and of course, the sub had to match. I looked up the specs, and though the Bic looks to have greater range, and is probably the better choice, I am sure the x-sub will be good (I looked up some info on the net, and talked with the people at the company). The x-sub also had the advantage of being smaller, and will fit in my limited space better anyway.


Ok, another question for you guys. Do any of you have any feedback on getting Directv HD. I am a current Directv customer (without any HD), and want to upgrade to the HD DVR HR 20. I called Directv and they will upgrade my dish for free, but I have to pay $299 for the HD DVR, and I had to renew my 2 year contract. I tried to haggle with the person, but it was a regular customer service person, and she said she would have a specialist call me back in couple days. I have heard Directv does haggle with people (just like a car lot), so I was wondering if any of you have had any success with them, and what you got? If not, I will just pay the $299 and get on with my life.


Once the system is all set up, I will let you guys know how its going. Thanks again for all your help!


----------



## steve7100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HTIB's sell by the millions every year. Why do you try to impose your will upon others? You like what YOU like. Let others make their own choices instead of what YOU think they should do. They should go to places like Circuit City and let their ears do the choosing. Lighten up G-Star!




Lol, this is the HTIB alternative thread isn't it?


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone:
> 
> 
> I have everything ordered, now comes the wait. I went with the following
> 
> 
> Yamaha 661 receiver
> 
> x-ls speakers
> 
> x-ls center speaker
> 
> x-sub (explanation below)
> 
> 24" x-ls speaker stands
> 
> Oppo 981 DVD
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I was going to go with the Bic sub, but it did not pass the wife test. She wanted the woodgrain finish on the speakers, and of course, the sub had to match. I looked up the specs, and though the Bic looks to have greater range, and is probably the better choice, I am sure the x-sub will be good (I looked up some info on the net, and talked with the people at the company). The x-sub also had the advantage of being smaller, and will fit in my limited space better anyway.
> 
> 
> Ok, another question for you guys. Do any of you have any feedback on getting Directv HD. I am a current Directv customer (without any HD), and want to upgrade to the HD DVR HR 20. I called Directv and they will upgrade my dish for free, but I have to pay $299 for the HD DVR, and I had to renew my 2 year contract. I tried to haggle with the person, but it was a regular customer service person, and she said she would have a specialist call me back in couple days. I have heard Directv does haggle with people (just like a car lot), so I was wondering if any of you have had any success with them, and what you got? If not, I will just pay the $299 and get on with my life.
> 
> 
> Once the system is all set up, I will let you guys know how its going. Thanks again for all your help!



I just signed up for Directv HD and got the HR20 for 199 after a $100 instant rebate. Try asking for that. So far I like the box and the DVR aspect. HD is pretty good although if I had to guess I would say a tad worse than when I had Time Warner. I figure though I'll go with Directv until FIOS becomes available around here.


----------



## slubu

Anyone know where to get the Onkyo SR504S for cheap? The only deals I see are on the black ones, the silver ones are more expensive


----------



## buzzy_

chachi, given your use - " 50% music, 50% TV/movies" - getting 2 better speakers rather than 5 OK speakers is a smart move.


there might be some debate on whether next on list after that would be a center (3.0) or a sub (2.1), that depends on your own preferences and on the speakers you buy.


----------



## studdad

Slubu, thanks for the info. Any problems with your HR20? I know there were numerous in the past, just wondering if they fixed most of em yet.


----------



## -89-

I have $700 to use for a home theater set up. Just a medium size room with a 30" HDTV. I don't have a reciever, sub, anything. Just the TV. If I want to buy a center speaker, two front speakers, two back speakers, subwoofer, and a reciever...what should I buy using that $700 to squeeze out as much quality as possible?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve7100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lol, this is the HTIB alternative thread isn't it?



yes, it is. even though it has been explained to him several times by myself and others, flags just doesn't get it...so it is best to just ignore him. i'm getting the impression that this thread hurts his feelings.










this is a place to discuss modest HT setups that are not all-in-one-box solutions. as hard is it might be for some to comprehend, HTIB is *NOT* the best or most desirable choice for everyone on a budget. hopefully this can be a place for all kinds of experience and helpful advice for those who chose to go t the component route.


carry on gents.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone:
> 
> 
> I have everything ordered, now comes the wait. I went with the following
> 
> 
> Yamaha 661 receiver
> 
> x-ls speakers
> 
> x-ls center speaker
> 
> x-sub (explanation below)
> 
> 24" x-ls speaker stands
> 
> Oppo 981 DVD
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I was going to go with the Bic sub, but it did not pass the wife test. She wanted the woodgrain finish on the speakers, and of course, the sub had to match. I looked up the specs, and though the Bic looks to have greater range, and is probably the better choice, I am sure the x-sub will be good (I looked up some info on the net, and talked with the people at the company). The x-sub also had the advantage of being smaller, and will fit in my limited space better anyway.
> 
> 
> Ok, another question for you guys. Do any of you have any feedback on getting Directv HD. I am a current Directv customer (without any HD), and want to upgrade to the HD DVR HR 20. I called Directv and they will upgrade my dish for free, but I have to pay $299 for the HD DVR, and I had to renew my 2 year contract. I tried to haggle with the person, but it was a regular customer service person, and she said she would have a specialist call me back in couple days. I have heard Directv does haggle with people (just like a car lot), so I was wondering if any of you have had any success with them, and what you got? If not, I will just pay the $299 and get on with my life.
> 
> 
> Once the system is all set up, I will let you guys know how its going. Thanks again for all your help!



Congratulations...did you get the EX mod? Either way you will be amazed at how these speakers sound for the price. The x-sub will work fine in medium to smaller rooms...again for the price you're getting far more in quality than what you paid for. Also, don't let the pictures deceive you, the x-LS speakers are much bigger in person than they look. They are deeper than they are tall, IIRC, and very well built.


Let us know your thoughts when you get them.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slubu, thanks for the info. Any problems with your HR20? I know there were numerous in the past, just wondering if they fixed most of em yet.



None so far, but I've had it for less than a week..


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know where to get the Onkyo SR504S for cheap? The only deals I see are on the black ones, the silver ones are more expensive



If you have a Fry's store nearby they have the 504S on sale for $199 brand new. I'm not sure what your definition of cheap might be. Its on sale until Tuesday.

http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...15700229&type= 


The 4843000 model is the 504S.


----------



## studdad

Hey Ron:


Thanks for all your help. I asked about the EX and they did not know what I was talking about. These are all available in April (I have to wait until they start trickling in) so maybe they just upgraded them and kept the same name? Anyway, I am sure I will be very happy with them. I will let ya know when everything is going.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know where to get the Onkyo SR504S for cheap? The only deals I see are on the black ones, the silver ones are more expensive



If you're looking for a new one, Fry's and Circuit City tend to have Onkyos on sale from time to time. But if you are willing to get refurbished, direct from the manufacturer, go to shoponkyo.com. If you've purchased any Onkyo equipment beforehand, you can apply credits (points) to future purchases. I picked up a TX-SR504B for $134 shipped (no tax since I don't live in NJ and free shipping since it was over $100).


This new receiver should be coming in on Friday the 13th (heh) along with my new Polk RM6750 speaker set (also picked up two RM 6751s to complete the 7.1 package). I'll try to post some pics of the whole shebang once we have some drywall back up in the basement.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're looking for a new one, Fry's and Circuit City tend to have Onkyos on sale from time to time. But if you are willing to get refurbished, direct from the manufacturer, go to shoponkyo.com. If you've purchased any Onkyo equipment beforehand, you can apply credits (points) to future purchases. I picked up a TX-SR504B for $134 shipped (no tax since I don't live in NJ and free shipping since it was over $100).
> 
> 
> This new receiver should be coming in on Friday the 13th (heh) along with my new Polk RM6750 speaker set (also picked up two RM 6751s to complete the 7.1 package). I'll try to post some pics of the whole shebang once we have some drywall back up in the basement.



I looked at Shoponkyo.com actually but they don't have the silver one for cheap, just the black one. I will be checking out fry's though.


Now I'm just wondering if I should step up to the 604, since my TV only has one HDMI input, and with this receiver it seems I can have 2 HDMI inputs that will output into my TV's 1 HDMI input. Is that accurate?


----------



## Tulpa

Yes, the receiver can act as a switch, essentially giving you two HDMI inputs.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked at Shoponkyo.com actually but they don't have the silver one for cheap, just the black one. I will be checking out fry's though.



What a bummer. They had the silver one a few days ago. They must've run out of refurbished stock. If you're not in a hurry, just keep checking.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now I'm just wondering if I should step up to the 604, since my TV only has one HDMI input, and with this receiver it seems I can have 2 HDMI inputs that will output into my TV's 1 HDMI input. Is that accurate?



Wel, personally, I'd advise against the 604 if you're really wanting HDMI. All the 604 does is provide an HDMI switch. The 674 has HDMI upscaling. You could save a little moolah by waiting for a TX-SR504S and buying a separate switch . I suppose it would depend on your HT setup. I have a Logitech 360 Harmony remote and use that to do any video switching that my receiver can't handle.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What a bummer. They had the silver one a few days ago. They must've run out of refurbished stock. If you're not in a hurry, just keep checking.Wel, personally, I'd advise against the 604 if you're really wanting HDMI. All the 604 does is provide an HDMI switch. The 674 has HDMI upscaling. You could save a little moolah by waiting for a TX-SR504S and buying a separate switch . I suppose it would depend on your HT setup. I have a Logitech 360 Harmony remote and use that to do any video switching that my receiver can't handle.



Thanks for the input. I am more questioning that since I have only 1 HDMI input (which is now my Oppo DVD), is it worth the extra $200 or so to get the 604, which has 2 HDMI inputs to allow me to have both my DVD and Directv via HDMI? Currently I have the Directv HD-DVR via component - the 604 would allow both to be via HDMI. Not sure if that difference would justify the $200 price increase of the 604 over the 504. I already have a Harmony 880 so switching would not be an issue.


----------



## pm2501

Don't take just my word for it. Maybe someone else can chime in here. If you're in a bust for HDMI switching, the 604 isn't a bad receiver. If you think you're going to want HDMI upconversion (all of your video inputs go to HDMI) soon, pony up for the 674 (or another good brand that offers upscaling).


You can find more info about the receivers in the appropriate forum or on Onkyo's site. Someone also might have a good suggestion for a brand other than Onkyo that'd fit more into your price range and offer HDMI upconversion.


----------



## buzzy_

For anyone interested, the Onkyo 504 in black is $170 shipped for a new receiver - may be today only, not sure.

link


----------



## pm2501

Slubu,


Refurbed Silver TX-SR504 is back in stock:

$169.00 shipped


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slubu,
> 
> 
> Refurbed Silver TX-SR504 is back in stock:
> 
> $169.00 shipped



Jumped on it - it was $149.77 shipped (tax in Cali). Great deal. I'm on my way now to my first ever HT system. Now I just need to find some speakers..


EDIT - My offer got accepted for the BIC H-100 Sub. I just have to figure out what speakers I want now, because I think I'm looking for black ones (otherwise I would go with the Velodyne).


Thanks for the help everyone.


----------



## pm2501

There are plenty of good suggestions around here. I, for example, was going to go to Fry's and pick up 3 pairs of POLK R150s and a POLK CSi25 center... I was going to save some money up for a new sub later on (I've got an old sub from an HT-S604) But, because my HT is in my basement and the ceiling is only 8' high, I ended up getting the Polk RM6750 5.1 speaker package and adding a pair of 6751 satellites to fill out the 7 speaker set. The fronts, rears and surrounds are all going to be ceiling-mounted


----------



## slubu

Ok gentlemen - some advice is needed once more. What is the difference between the R15 and the R150 from Polk? A lot of people here are R150 fans but the original post suggests the R15. I tried finding out from Polk's own site, but they are just priced the same and I'm not too keen on the technical lingo. Any ideas?


----------



## birdy_08

I currently have an Onkyo 790 HTIB. I'm going to upgrade the sub, and am considering the BIC H-100. My question is, will it give me an more bass then the 230watt Onkyo sub I currently have? The H-100 is only 150 watts. Seems like it may be a downgrade. Have any of you owned both the Onkyo sub and the H-100? Can you give me a comparison on the two subs? My theater room is 26x15, so I need something with some juice.


Thanks


----------



## Pulsedge

slubu,


The R150 is the new R15. Slight changes in the drivers, and now a rear ported vs front ported design.


Cheers,

Russ


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *birdy_08* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question is, will it give me an more bass then the 230watt Onkyo sub I currently have? The H-100 is only 150 watts. Seems like it may be a downgrade.



forget about the wattage numbers...they only tell a minuscule part of the whole story. the Bic has a better driver, cabinet, and overall design. i believe it was designed in part by Dr. Hsu, and his reputation in the sub world is gold (see Hsu research).


the onkyo HTIB sub is good....for a $50 sub. the H-100 will perform better in terms of sound quality, extension to lower frequencies, and output. what this all means is that the Bic will play lower notes, in a more articulate fashion, with more authority than the onkyo sub. the H-100 is one of the best choices when jumping into the world of "real" subwoofers.


a while back, someone over on the sub forum ran some frequency sweeps with the onkyo sub, and found it to hit a brick wall at 35Hz, which is pretty pathetic. the Bic will probably get you down to about 25Hz with authority corner loaded in a decent sized room.


so no, the Bic will be an upgrade...a big upgrade from the one-note wonder onkyo sub. and it only gets better as you go up the food chain.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pulsedge* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> slubu,
> 
> 
> The R150 is the new R15. Slight changes in the drivers, and now a rear ported vs front ported design.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Russ



Thank you Pulsedge.


----------



## SilverBlade

I've done hours and hours of researching on the net, and these forums. These are the parts that I have chosen if I were to buy today. (I actually have a year to plan this out)


This will be my first venture into buying a home theater system

Front: Polk Audio RTi8 Tower Speakers
Surround: Polk Audio Bookshelf Speaker (RTi4)
Center: Polk Audio Center Channel Speaker (CSi3)
Subwoofer: Precision Acoustics 10" 10HDW (Or recommend one?)
Receiver: Yamaha HTR5950B


This alone comes to $2500 (Canadian)


I'll also take other recommendations for speakers that can be purchased for less money yet can perform just as nicely. But being a Canadian citizen, I don't have access to as many brands as Americans.


----------



## KnightRT

Consider adding a reference to the refurbished Harman AVR amplifiers that Harman constantly sells on EBay. The prior generations of receivers that cost $500 at retail routinely go for $140-$220. They retain a full warranty and are generally indistinguishable from new.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pulsedge* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> slubu,
> 
> 
> The R150 is the new R15. Slight changes in the drivers, and now a rear ported vs front ported design.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Russ



In this kind of thread it might help to be clear on what that means - you can't put a rear ported speaker against a wall or the back of a cabinet/shelf


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KnightRT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Consider adding a reference to the refurbished Harman AVR amplifiers that Harman constantly sells on EBay. The prior generations of receivers that cost $500 at retail routinely go for $140-$220. They retain a full warranty and are generally indistinguishable from new.



Might help to add, search on the seller harmanaudio - AFAIK links to ebay get blotted out here


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In this kind of thread it might help to be clear on what that means - you can't put a rear ported speaker against a wall or the back of a cabinet/shelf



Damn, well there goes that. Can anyone recommend a speaker that I can put against a wall and is small in nature? I would love the Velodyne CHT FRS, but it only comes in white now. Any ideas where to get the black set?


----------



## birdy_08




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> forget about the wattage numbers...they only tell a minuscule part of the whole story. the Bic has a better driver, cabinet, and overall design. i believe it was designed in part by Dr. Hsu, and his reputation in the sub world is gold (see Hsu research).
> 
> 
> the onkyo HTIB sub is good....for a $50 sub. the H-100 will perform better in terms of sound quality, extension to lower frequencies, and output. what this all means is that the Bic will play lower notes, in a more articulate fashion, with more authority than the onkyo sub. the H-100 is one of the best choices when jumping into the world of "real" subwoofers.
> 
> 
> a while back, someone over on the sub forum ran some frequency sweeps with the onkyo sub, and found it to hit a brick wall at 35Hz, which is pretty pathetic. the Bic will probably get you down to about 25Hz with authority corner loaded in a decent sized room.
> 
> 
> so no, the Bic will be an upgrade...a big upgrade from the one-note wonder onkyo sub. and it only gets better as you go up the food chain.






Thanks G-Star! The H-100 sounds like a great deal and a good start on a better HT. I'm still holding out a thread of hope for the VTF-2 MK 2 though. Trying to talk the wife into it.







Do you know of anywhere to get HSU subs other then the HSU website? Trying to find a deal.


Thanks again!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SilverBlade* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've done hours and hours of researching on the net, and these forums. These are the parts that I have chosen if I were to buy today. (I actually have a year to plan this out)
> 
> 
> This will be my first venture into buying a home theater system
> 
> Front: Polk Audio RTi8 Tower Speakers
> Surround: Polk Audio Bookshelf Speaker (RTi4)
> Center: Polk Audio Center Channel Speaker (CSi3)
> Subwoofer: Precision Acoustics 10" 10HDW (Or recommend one?)
> Receiver: Yamaha HTR5950B
> 
> 
> This alone comes to $2500 (Canadian)
> 
> 
> I'll also take other recommendations for speakers that can be purchased for less money yet can perform just as nicely. But being a Canadian citizen, I don't have access to as many brands as Americans.



I answered this last night but evidently the post got lost...short answer...very nice speakers, but you need to get your ears around some other brands too. Since you're in Canada check out some Athenas, Energy, Mirage, Paradigm and maybe Axioms too. Listen to speakers in the same price point, higher and lower to decide what you can live with. I love Polks, own them, have auditioned the 8s and 3. It's a great combo, but not everyone agrees with me. If you're going to spend that much coin you should at least establish what you like. Oh and lose the sub, check out Sonic Boom for SVS or the Hsu distributor up there or Velodyne DLS models at Future Shop or Mirage/Energy subs...all very capable.


Good luck


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> forget about the wattage numbers...they only tell a minuscule part of the whole story. the Bic has a better driver, cabinet, and overall design. i believe it was designed in part by Dr. Hsu, and his reputation in the sub world is gold (see Hsu research).
> 
> 
> the onkyo HTIB sub is good....for a $50 sub. the H-100 will perform better in terms of sound quality, extension to lower frequencies, and output. what this all means is that the Bic will play lower notes, in a more articulate fashion, with more authority than the onkyo sub. the H-100 is one of the best choices when jumping into the world of "real" subwoofers.
> 
> 
> a while back, someone over on the sub forum ran some frequency sweeps with the onkyo sub, and found it to hit a brick wall at 35Hz, which is pretty pathetic. the Bic will probably get you down to about 25Hz with authority corner loaded in a decent sized room.
> 
> 
> so no, the Bic will be an upgrade...a big upgrade from the one-note wonder onkyo sub. and it only gets better as you go up the food chain.




ANYONE CAN JUST THROW OUT NUMBERS. PLEASE POST LINKS?


----------



## slubu

Ron Temple or others:


I'm almost complete with my alternate HTIB. I have the Onkyo 504 and the Bic H100 sub. Now I need just 4-6 speakers and a center channel. Can anyone recommend me something for $300 or under that comes in black color? Very appreciated for any answers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron Temple or others:
> 
> 
> I'm almost complete with my alternate HTIB. I have the Onkyo 504 and the Bic H100 sub. Now I need just 4-6 speakers and a center channel. Can anyone recommend me something for $300 or under that comes in black color? Very appreciated for any answers.



4 R150s $100

2 R300s $100

1 CSi25 $70


or 6 R150s $150

and the center


good luck...


----------



## max 55

hi,


i am building my first HT with the help of this forum, and particularly this thread. i've already bought two R300's and an onkyo 504, and planning to buy a pair of R15/R150's and a CSi25/CSM. my question is about the sub. i am debating between


Polk PSW10/PSW12 vs. Dayton Sub-100/Sub120.


any opinion between these options? also, would it be a big step up to get a Bic H-100 instead?


thanks! this thread is great.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4 R150s $100
> 
> 2 R300s $100
> 
> 1 CSi25 $70
> 
> 
> or 6 R150s $150
> 
> and the center
> 
> 
> good luck...



I just found out the R150's are rear-ported and therefore cannot be placed on a shelf - is that accurate? Also, my center cannot be that deep, as the shelf it will go on is only about 7" deep.


----------



## onebxr

I havent heard the polk or dayton, but I own the bic. The bic is the first real subwoofer that I have ever owned and let me tell you, that sucker will shake the house. The first time I tested it was with We Were Soldiers, the broken arrow scene, my wife was going turn the sub down the tv is shaking. The sub is 10 feet from the TV. It is clear bass not muddled and Dr. HSU had something to do with the design. Its a great sub for the price.

-Rich


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ANYONE CAN JUST THROW OUT NUMBERS. PLEASE POST LINKS?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=onkyo 


happy?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just found out the R150's are rear-ported and therefore cannot be placed on a shelf - is that accurate? Also, my center cannot be that deep, as the shelf it will go on is only about 7" deep.



See if you can score some R15s...you're going to be stuck finding a center except on of the RMs which I don't think are worth the money...something to be said for larger cabinets. A couple of inches should be fine with rear ported speakers, just make sure they are secured. I launched one of my Mordaunts off a mantle playing PFs Pulse at +4.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4 R150s $100
> 
> 2 R300s $100
> 
> 1 CSi25 $70
> 
> 
> or 6 R150s $150
> 
> and the center
> 
> 
> good luck...



Excuse the ignorance, but would the R300s be the rears or the fronts?


----------



## sambow87

I'm pretty sure they would be fronts, as they are floorstanding and that is what i'm using them for.


I ordered those R300s and just ordered a CSR Center Channel. I have the R150's on backorder (unless anyone else can tell me where to get them for relatively cheap besides fry's, where they are backordered).


Hoping to see a good difference with the CSR center channel.


Loving the R300s though!


Sam


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excuse the ignorance, but would the R300s be the rears or the fronts?



They'll do more for you in the front, just didn't list them first.


----------



## slubu

Hopefully all these questions will help other newbies besides myself, but I came across the Klipsch Quintet 5.1 systems for around $300. Any thoughts on those? They seem to be small and easily mountable if necessary.


----------



## netjack

What about the Cerwin Vega CVHD 5.1's? I'm looking for something sleek and around $500-$600.

http://www.cerwinvega.com/CVHD.php


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4 R150s $100
> 
> 2 R300s $100
> 
> 1 CSi25 $70
> 
> 
> or 6 R150s $150
> 
> and the center
> 
> 
> good luck...



where are you finding the CSi25 for that price? Also whats the difference (other than size) of the 300's and 150's? Are they clearer souding or just louder? i live in an apt so i dont need high volume, but if they sound clearer id spend more to get em


----------



## Audio Donk

Hey guys. New to the forums and I am a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff. I just got a 50" plasma and want to add sound. It is in a 20' by 13' room. Unfortunately, I really don't even know where to start. Is there some reference you can point me to than can teach me about this subject?


Thanks and I apologize if this isn't the forum for this question.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> where are you finding the CSi25 for that price? Also whats the difference (other than size) of the 300's and 150's? Are they clearer souding or just louder? i live in an apt so i dont need high volume, but if they sound clearer id spend more to get em



Frys/Outlook puts them on sale frequently...last I looked it was $100, but be patient it will go back down. The R300 has a single larger driver in a much larger cabinet. This will allow the floorstander to project a larger soundstage and more detailed midrange and midbass. You'll still want a sub. No, they don't play louder, everything should be calibrated to reflect the same volume at the listening position.


----------



## sakaike

First off - great thread! I was another one of those folks comparing various HTIB options before realizing I could probably do better and cheaper at the same time cobbling something together on my own. So here's my question: Does anyone have any opinions or options regarding this choice:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html 


It's the Hsu Research Performance 1 package (5 satellites, 1 center channel, and the STF-1 sub), all for $450. Then all I need is a receiver.


My criteria are small size satellites (for aesthetic reasons), cheap price, and best bang for the buck.


Most of the other options discussed here are either more expensive or the sats are larger than I would prefer. I know this set-up won't sound as good as some of the others discussed here, but I'm wondering if anyone has any other options to suggest (e.g., smaller sats and same sound - same price, same size and and sound - lower price, etc.)?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## Augmont

First of all........G-Star, great thread, right group to discuss, and glad i found it.


Second, i too started out with same HTiB as you (onkyo HTS780). i had a collection of bose fronts, with sony speakers for center and surround and a sony receiver that only did dolby pro logic prior to the 780. Reason why i say this is that i could not get over my disappointment with the speakers that came with the 780. I enjoyed my collage better than then 780.


Since then have upgrade to the Infinity Primus line. I have gone the used/refurb route since it fits my budget. I have the 360's for fronts, C25 for center, and 150's for surround. I started with the 150's as fronts and they sound great and many use them as their complete system. To date, i have spent a total of $400 on speaker upgrades and my next plan is to upgrade my sub.


My question is the sub. My view room is a family room that's open to the kitchen and breakfast area. the total volume is about 3,750 cf. (25'x15'x10') and the family room is half of the space. I would like to get either a HSU or SVS sub since they are so highly regarded both from users and professionals.


G-Star or anybody, can you tell me how much an improvement your SVS PB10 was over the Onkyo sub? Right now SVS has over stock and is selling them @ $375 and i'm thinking about getting one. The overstock sale is for the white and silver only.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sakaike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off - great thread! I was another one of those folks comparing various HTIB options before realizing I could probably do better and cheaper at the same time cobbling something together on my own. So here's my question: Does anyone have any opinions or options regarding this choice:
> 
> http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html
> 
> 
> It's the Hsu Research Performance 1 package (5 satellites, 1 center channel, and the STF-1 sub), all for $450. Then all I need is a receiver.
> 
> 
> My criteria are small size satellites (for aesthetic reasons), cheap price, and best bang for the buck.
> 
> 
> Most of the other options discussed here are either more expensive or the sats are larger than I would prefer. I know this set-up won't sound as good as some of the others discussed here, but I'm wondering if anyone has any other options to suggest (e.g., smaller sats and same sound - same price, same size and and sound - lower price, etc.)?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



It's gotten praise...I haven't heard it...the sub's excellent for a medium to small room. The other usual suspects are the Athena Micra 6, the Velo CHT sats with a sub of your choice, maybe the Klipsch Quintet or a Polk RM package. I'm not a sub/sat guy, but perhaps one of the benefits of the Hsu package is that I believe the sats crossover in the center which might gives the owner a perception of a fuller midrange.


----------



## birdy_08

So I've decided to replace my Onkyo sub with a BIC H-100. While I'm at it, I'm thinking about replacing my Onkyo center channel speaker. Since I'm getting the BIC sub, I'm thinking about getting the BIC HT-65 Center so it will visually match. My question is, if I upgrade just the center and not the front right and left speakers, will the work well together? I've heard that if you mix and match different brands of speakers in your front row, that sometimes the pitch doesnt match up. I don't really want to upgrade my front left and right Onkyo speakers right now, but I also don't want to get the BIC center and then have my front row sound funny. Any comments??


Also, anyone have any comments about the quality of the HT-65? Maybe have an alternate suggestion?


Thanks!


----------



## Tulpa

I would upgrade all three fronts together. They need to match tonally, especially since they often share sounds and do most of the work for soundtracks, etc.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augmont* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can you tell me how much an improvement your SVS PB10 was over the Onkyo sub? Right now SVS has over stock and is selling them @ $375 and i'm thinking about getting one.



going from the onkyo sub to the SVS PB-10 was hands down the most impressive upgrade I mademore overall impact than a better receiver and speakers had.


The onkyo sub is decent for a $50 sub, but the SVS is a step into world-class bass. It will do everything betterextension, output, linearity, sound quality, etc. etc. a few posts up, I provided a link to some tests run on the onkyo sub, which showed it had little usable output from 40Hz on down, which is a severe limitation with some of today's bass-heavy soundtracks. The SVS will get down to about 18Hz corner loaded, and in your sized room you'll easily get 100dB+ peak output at those kind of low frequencies.


That sub is an amazing deal at $429, at $375 it's a steal. If you can do it, I'd jump on it. Ron has heard it in person, I'm sure he'll vouch for it too. I was in your position about 1.5 years ago, and he steered me in the right direction, for which I am forever grateful!


----------



## birdy_08




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would upgrade all three fronts together. They need to match tonally, especially since they often share sounds and do most of the work for soundtracks, etc.




Yeah, I think I might just replace the whole front row. The Onkyo speakers are OK with some movies, but about half of the movies I watch, no matter how I adjust the distrobution on the speakers, I have a hard time hearing the voices of the characters in the movie. The peripheral sound is really loud, but the voices are quiet and kind of drowned out.


Does anyone have any input on the quality of the BIC front row? Good bang for the buck?


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's gotten praise...I haven't heard it...the sub's excellent for a medium to small room. The other usual suspects are the Athena Micra 6, the Velo CHT sats with a sub of your choice, maybe the Klipsch Quintet or a Polk RM package. I'm not a sub/sat guy, but perhaps one of the benefits of the Hsu package is that I believe the sats crossover in the center which might gives the owner a perception of a fuller midrange.



Ron, (or others) given your expertise I take great value in your responses. Between the following sets, which would you recommend?


- Mission M70s

- Klipsch Quintet II

- Infinity Primus Theater Pack

- Polk R150s + Center


Thanks again.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron, (or others) given your expertise I take great value in your responses. Between the following sets, which would you recommend?
> 
> 
> - Mission M70s
> 
> - Klipsch Quintet II
> 
> - Infinity Primus Theater Pack
> 
> - Polk R150s + Center
> 
> 
> Thanks again.



1. Polk

2. Mission

3. Klipsch

4. Infinity


Totally subjective, but here's my reasons...


Polk = larger cabinet/baffle and will give you the most frequency response from 60hz to 26khz...means you will get a fuller and richer sound.


Mission = my son had an older set of these overgrown satelites. They are bright, loud and clear...he loved them, I liked them, but prefered the Polks. He's got Polk R30s and 15s now.


Klipsch - I've heard them in a store and thought they sounded very good, but have no real experience with them, so they get notched down from the Missions


Infinity = Just hearsay, but folks that I know that have heard them, panned them.


BTW, there are lots of things I like better than the Polks, just not at that price.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. Polk
> 
> 2. Mission
> 
> 3. Klipsch
> 
> 4. Infinity
> 
> 
> Totally subjective, but here's my reasons...
> 
> 
> Polk = larger cabinet/baffle and will give you the most frequency response from 60hz to 26khz...means you will get a fuller and richer sound.
> 
> 
> Mission = my son had an older set of these overgrown satelites. They are bright, loud and clear...he loved them, I liked them, but prefered the Polks. He's got Polk R30s and 15s now.
> 
> 
> Klipsch - I've heard them in a store and thought they sounded very good, but have no real experience with them, so they get notched down from the Missions
> 
> 
> Infinity = Just hearsay, but folks that I know that have heard them, panned them.
> 
> 
> BTW, there are lots of things I like better than the Polks, just not at that price.



You're very convincing on these Polks. I should mention my entire condo is 740 sq ft, with the living area being about 600 sq ft. If that changes your opinion on the mission/polk, please let me know. As for things better than the Polk, I can definitely see that - but I'm not an audio nut sadly and won't gain that much appreciation from the added quality (is my belief).


----------



## Tulpa

Polks are the speakers I'm looking at next.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're very convincing on these Polks. I should mention my entire condo is 740 sq ft, with the living area being about 600 sq ft. If that changes your opinion on the mission/polk, please let me know. As for things better than the Polk, I can definitely see that - but I'm not an audio nut sadly and won't gain that much appreciation from the added quality (is my belief).



If you have a Frys near you go listen, vice versa CC or BB with what they feature, at least you'll get an idea. With the size of your room 5.1 should be plenty. Look at the the dimensions of the Polks or the slightly smaller R15s, they are probably still available, if you can't live with a smaller bookshelf, then drop back to Missions.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> going from the onkyo sub to the SVS PB-10 was hands down the most impressive upgrade I mademore overall impact than a better receiver and speakers had.
> 
> 
> The onkyo sub is decent for a $50 sub, but the SVS is a step into world-class bass. It will do everything betterextension, output, linearity, sound quality, etc. etc. a few posts up, I provided a link to some tests run on the onkyo sub, which showed it had little usable output from 40Hz on down, which is a severe limitation with some of today's bass-heavy soundtracks. The SVS will get down to about 18Hz corner loaded, and in your sized room you'll easily get 100dB+ peak output at those kind of low frequencies.
> 
> 
> That sub is an amazing deal at $429, at $375 it's a steal. If you can do it, I'd jump on it. Ron has heard it in person, I'm sure he'll vouch for it too. I was in your position about 1.5 years ago, and he steered me in the right direction, for which I am forever grateful!



Where is the link stating that the Onkyo sub is $50.00?


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=onkyo
> 
> 
> happy?



This proves nothing. It is simply one person's opinion.


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This proves nothing. It is simply one person's opinion.



Did you help design that onkyo or something? youre a little too excited about it


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you help design that onkyo or something? youre a little too excited about it



The 790 is a system to get excited about. It's awesome to my ears. A real steal at the price point. A super dooper system for the money. I love it! I saw Celtic Woman in concert 2 weeks ago and when I play the DVD that most of their songs came from (Celtic Woman - A New Journey: Live at Slane Castle, Ireland (2007)

it is a better sound than I heard at the concert hall that evening. And believe me, they had an excellent sound system. This is truly a system (HT-S790) to rave about.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 790 is a system to get excited about. It's awesome to my ears.



But that is exactly the point of this thread, DON'T YOU GET IT YET? When will this end? People choosing to read this thread are looking for an alternative to HTIB as this is ***Official HTIB Alternatives Thread***. They are looking for something that is "awesome to their ears" THAT IS NOT AN HTIB. If the HT-790 is "awesome to your ears" then you are a very lucky person, go put on your favorite CD or DVD, enjoy it, and go read the HT-790 thread.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This proves nothing. It is simply one person's opinion.



Wrong. It is one person's test results, and there is no reason to believe he is publishing false data.




> Quote:
> Where is the link stating that the Onkyo sub is $50.00?



are you really that dim that you can't figure this one out? the receiver retails for $225. the 7.1 system retails for $350. you do the math.



> Quote:
> The 790 is a system to get excited about. It's awesome to my ears.



yeah, great. then why do you keep coming to the "HTIB alternatives thread"? if people were/are intersted in that system, there is an entire thread dedicated to it. why don't you keep your comments about it over there?


stop being so defensive about it. the 790 is a good HTIB and has its legions of fans. your constant whining about it in threads like these make you seem like you are insecure and need your purchasing decisions validated.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But that is exactly the point of this thread, DON'T YOU GET IT YET? When will this end? People choosing to read this thread are looking for an alternative to HTIB as this is ***Official HTIB Alternatives Thread***. They are looking for something that is "awesome to their ears" THAT IS NOT AN HTIB. If the HT-790 is "awesome to your ears" then you are a very lucky person, go put on your favorite CD or DVD, enjoy it, and go read the HT-790 thread.



Sorry!


----------



## flags




G-star said:


> Wrong. It is one person's test results, and there is no reason to believe he is publishing false data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you really that dim that you can't figure this one out? the receiver retails for $225. the 7.1 system retails for $350. you do the math.
> 
> 
> I fell asleep in math class.


----------



## flags




flags said:


> G-star said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. It is one person's test results, and there is no reason to believe he is publishing false data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you really that dim that you can't figure this one out? the receiver retails for $225. the 7.1 system retails for $350. you do the math.
> 
> 
> I still can't figure it out. The system retails for $419.99
> 
> ( http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fatSSmX...0&i=580HTS790S )
> 
> So where do you get $50.00?
Click to expand...


----------



## flags




flags said:


> flags said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wrong. It is one person's test results, and there is no reason to believe he is publishing false data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you really that dim that you can't figure this one out? the receiver retails for $225. the 7.1 system retails for $350. you do the math.
> 
> 
> I still can't figure it out. The system retails for $419.99
> 
> ( http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fatSSmX...0&i=580HTS790S )
> 
> So where do you get $50.00?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...it is a better sound than I heard at the concert hall that evening.



WOW. I just can't believe you said that. So basically, you're saying the concert hall had a HT-S590 ??


----------



## flags

Electronics > Audio Components > Home Theater Systems Sell Yours | Save Product to Your List(s) | Set Price Alert


Onkyo HTS790B Home Theater System

(7.1 Speakers, 130 W/ Channel, Tuner - MPN: HTS790B)

Price Range: $429.99 - $509.00 from 4 Sellers

Description: Sometimes you can tell a home theater system?s qualities from the moment you get it up and running. Some packages will struggle to deliver, while others will have a synergy that works. The HT-S790 7.1-channel A/V surround home theater recei.... Read More

Description: Sometimes you can tell a home theater system?s qualities from the moment you get it up and running. Some packages will struggle to deliver, while others will have a synergy that works. The HT-S790 7.1-channel A/V surround home theater receiver/speaker package falls into the latter category, with a combination of controlled power, advanced processing and superior functionality. By having an audio engineering reference point to start at?this system is built on Onkyo?s Wide Range Amplifier Technology (WRAT)?it?s possible to build a system that?s going to authentically recreate the cinematic experience in your own home. Any system worth its price tag should be compatible with the latest formats: the HT-S790 brings you the best DTS? and Dolby? Digital surround formats on offer, including the capability to play back those encoded on the upcoming high-definition DVD discs. Even then, you?re only scratching the surface of this package?s potential. With multi-component connectivity; fine-tuning capabilities; audio refinements and exclusive Onkyo speaker developments, the HT-S790 is a faultless solution that brings superior movies and music to your home. Minimize

User Reviews



(12 Reviews)




Compare PricesProduct DetailsUser ReviewsDiscussions

New (4 Sellers from $429.99) Seller Price (USD) Tax & Shipping Availability Seller Rating


Merchant Info $429.99

(Enter Zip Code) In Stock

109 Reviews


Merchant Info $447.00 In Stock

284 Reviews


Merchant Info $448.00 In Stock

2404 Reviews

Bright and Sleek

Merchant Info $509.00 In Stock

29 Reviews

Shipping costs are based on an estimate of UPS ground or equivalent carrier within the contiguous US, excluding Alaska and Hawaii. Please see Seller's website for actual shipping costs.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still can't figure it out. The system retails for $419.99
> 
> ( http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fatSSmX...0&i=580HTS790S )
> 
> So where do you get $50.00?



buy it for $419, or buy it refurbished directly from onkyo for $350. stop splitting hairs with me, and open your eyes to the larger point, which is that it has been shown through real world testing to perform signficatnly worse than any $100 off-the-shelf sub.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Electronics > Audio Components > Home Theater Systems Sell Yours | Save Product to Your List(s) | Set Price Alert
> 
> 
> Onkyo HTS790B Home Theater System
> 
> (7.1 Speakers, 130 W/ Channel, Tuner - MPN: HTS790B)
> 
> Price Range: $429.99 - $509.00 from 4 Sellers
> 
> Description: blah, blah, blah.



You've made your point, again, and again, and again, and again, now please respect the people who are trying to enjoy this thread, and stop these incessant posts. They are not helpful.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW. I just can't believe you said that. So basically, you're saying the concert hall had a HT-S590 ??



No. I am not saying that. a 590 would be too small for a 4000 seat concert hall.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You've made your point, again, and again, and again, and again, now please respect the people who are trying to enjoy this thread, and stop these incessant posts. They are not helpful.



Sorry. I am just trying to be helpful. I shall scoot on over to the 790 forum now.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> buy it for $419, or buy it refurbished directly from onkyo for $350. stop splitting hairs with me, and open your eyes to the larger point, which is that it has been shown through real world testing to perform signficatnly worse than any $100 off-the-shelf sub.



What?


----------



## dfwfiveoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No. I am not saying that. a 590 would be too small for a 4000 seat concert hall.



OK. But what you said was your system is "a better sound than than" a professional system in a 4,000 seat hall. Is that correct?


----------



## Kysersose

Flags has been given some time off with a warning that the next suspension will be permanent.


Kyser


----------



## Ron Temple

Below is a link to another forum regarding another guy part troll/part ADD with an "I want attention complex". It's interesting to see how a smaller, more liberal forum that's policed by it's members handles this kind of thing...enjoy

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2743


----------



## CrysDark

Flags your spamming and going to get into trouble agian. We understand your passion. It looks like a great unit, but this thread is for discussion of alternatives, for those of us that want to build a custom setup but are newbs.


Great thread so far, convinced me to save up a little more so I can get decent sound.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Flags has been given some time off with a warning that the next suspension will be permanent.
> 
> 
> Kyser



Thank you...looking forward to getting back on topic.


----------



## parlin

G-star, this is an excellent thread. Everyone's input has been very helpful and I'm very close to finalizing my sub and receiver purchases. Since this thread illustrates that fine line between money spent and component quality here are my questions for anyone who cares to share their opinion:


1. Should I go ahead and purchase the Onkyo 504 for $169.88 or is the quality/feature set of the Panasonic xr57 (~$300) or Onkyo 605 (new, ~$400 pre-order) really worth the extra money?


2. Should I buy the Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer (~$170) or is the quality/sound of the Bic-100 (~$240) really worth the extra money?


3. Does anyone use a Logitech Harmony remote with their Onkyo? If so have you encountered any problems with setup?


My current system consists of a Panasonic TH-42PX60U plasma tv and a set of Velodyne CHT Front Rows. I primarily watch television and movies but do listen to FM radio on occasion. I don't currently have support for h-def anything except for OTA channels but am considering replacing my dvd player with an Oppo w/hdmi out in the near future (but will not invest in hi-def dvd any time soon). Also, I'm not sure how concerned I need to be with video upconversion through the receiver vs hooking up video directly to my tv. My room is ~16' x `16' with a hallway and kitchen doorway on opposite corners.


----------



## sambow87

Just a quick Q:


I live in a small room and i'm going to be living ( a couple months later) in a small apartment room. I have the HT-S790 right now and I've been in the process of upgrading everything. I've upgraded the fronts, the center channel is on the way, and the rears are still backordered but will be here soon.


Do I need to upgrade the sub? I think I get some really good punch from it right now, and in such a small room it's almost too much sometimes. I'd like to wait maybe, but if you guys think i'd get a lot more out of a new sub for the room i'm in, i'm all down for it.


For reference, I have the R300s, R150s (backordered), and my center channel (CSR).


Thanks,


Sam


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *parlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. Should I buy the Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer (~$170) or is the quality/sound of the Bic-100 (~$240) really worth the extra money?



Don't forget there are other budget subs worth researching:


The HSU STF-1 at $249 +20:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html 


and


The X-sub at $199 + 40:
http://www.**********/products_catego...ofers&brand=57


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *parlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. Should I go ahead and purchase the Onkyo 504 for $169.88 or is the quality/feature set of the Panasonic xr57 (~$300) or Onkyo 605 (new, ~$400 pre-order) really worth the extra money?



Those are all so different that it's hard to know where you're coming from.


But - unless you want the small size and low heat output of the Panasonic, why choose that? The extra $130 over the 504 would likely be better spent elsewhere.


You first have to decide if you want HDMI and upconversion or not.


----------



## alawisious

I was just about to buy a Samsung HT-Q70 HTIB for around $300 when I read this thread. It completely changed my mind and I did some work and got:


$169 - New Onkyo TX-SR504 (Amazon)

$170 - JBL NSP1 5 Piece Speaker System - 4 Northridge N24s and an N-Center (Ebay)

$80 - JBL TLX PS10 Sub- Woofer (Craigslist)


So that is $419 for everything (I am on a very tight budget).


Is this system going to be much better than the Samsung HTIB (already have a dvd player)? I hope so.


Thanks for all the advice.


- Al


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alawisious* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just about to buy a Samsung HT-Q70 HTIB for around $300 when I read this thread. It completely changed my mind and I did some work and got:
> 
> 
> $169 - New Onkyo TX-SR504 (Amazon)
> 
> $170 - JBL NSP1 5 Piece Speaker System - 4 Northridge N24s and an N-Center (Ebay)
> 
> $80 - JBL TLX PS10 Sub- Woofer (Craigslist)
> 
> 
> So that is $419 for everything (I am on a very tight budget).
> 
> 
> Is this system going to be much better than the Samsung HTIB (already have a dvd player)? I hope so.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the advice.
> 
> 
> - Al



I'm not familiar with the JBL speaks and sub, but in all likelihood yes.


----------



## slubu

So I think I'm pretty close, just have to decide on my speakers. Can someone more experienced tell me what cables I will need to complete my system. I have/will have:


Onkyo 504

Bic 100 Sub

4 Polk speakers, 1 Polk Center Channel

Oppo DVD

DirecTV HDDVR


I'm guessing I need some audio cables from my DVD and HDDVR to my Onkyo. I believe I will be running the video directly to my TV. Do speaker wires come with the speakers? Or do I need to purchase that separately, and if so, what kind should I get (because I would like to have everything ready when the speakers actually come).


----------



## Tulpa

Any wires that come with speakers will likely be thin bargain basement crap. Lowes or Home Depot have good wires in 14 or 16 gauge for about $20 or less for 50 feet.



You'll also need two digital audio cables, one for the DVR, and one for the DVD player, both running to the receiver.


They'll either be digital coaxial (orange RCA port) or fiberoptic/Toslink (little black gate). Either way, they'll be marked and likely both the DVR and DVD player will have both outputs. If they do, it's your choice (although that Onkyo receiver will have only one coax and three optical inputs, so look and be thinking ahead.) Both coax and optical will sound the same, so it's really six of one...


Then you need whatever video cables to hook to the TV if you don't already have them. Component, DVI, HDMI, whatever they use.



Oh, and if the sub doesn't come with a cable, then the same digital coaxial audio cable mentioned above will work for it, too.


----------



## tooskinny

Fry's has the R150 for 59.99 but they are currently on backorder. I ordered me a pair to replace my front onkyo speakers. Can't wait to see how good these sound


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any wires that come with speakers will likely be thin bargain basement crap. Lowes or Home Depot have good wires in 14 or 16 gauge for about $20 or less for 50 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll also need two digital audio cables, one for the DVR, and one for the DVD player, both running to the receiver.
> 
> 
> They'll either be digital coaxial (orange RCA port) or fiberoptic/Toslink (little black gate). Either way, they'll be marked and likely both the DVR and DVD player will have both outputs. If they do, it's your choice (although that Onkyo receiver will have only one coax and three optical inputs, so look and be thinking ahead.) Both coax and optical will sound the same, so it's really six of one...
> 
> 
> Then you need whatever video cables to hook to the TV if you don't already have them. Component, DVI, HDMI, whatever they use.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and if the sub doesn't come with a cable, then the same digital coaxial audio cable mentioned above will work for it, too.



Awesome - Thanks!


Might as well get a larger pack of the optical digitals then, if coax does not matter.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tooskinny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fry's has the R150 for 59.99 but they are currently on backorder. I ordered me a pair to replace my front onkyo speakers. Can't wait to see how good these sound



That's what I'm planning on doing too. Although given I'd have to get stands for the fronts, I might as well just get the R300s is what I'm thinking. Will end up costing slightly more.


----------



## Ron Temple

slubu, you're also going to consider getting analog rca cables from the Oppo to the Onkyo (6) for SACD and DVD A playback. I've also found the Oppo player is a very good analog source...superior to it's digital sound for CDs.

www.bettercables.com


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> slubu, you're also going to consider getting analog rca cables from the Oppo to the Onkyo (6) for SACD and DVD A playback. I've also found the Oppo player is a very good analog source...superior to it's digital sound for CDs.



Is that in addition to the digital connection, or in place of? I believe I have the analog connection from my Oppo to the TV currently, which I can move to the Onkyo. So I guess my question is do I use both or just the analog?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that in addition to the digital connection, or in place of? I believe I have the analog connection from my Oppo to the TV currently, which I can move to the Onkyo. So I guess my question is do I use both or just the analog?



There should be a digital outpu as well as the 5.1 analog output on the Oppo player. Connect both to the receiver. In receiver setup configure the DVD player for digital...whatever Onkyo calls 6/8 channel direct you set for analog. When you pop in a SACD or DVD A or even stereo CD you choose 6/8 Direct on the Onkyo. Movies or CDs that you want to use the digital connection, choose DVD on the Onk.


----------



## Hi My Name Is

I never had a HITB before and this will be my first but even as a entry level consumer. From what i hear making my own is smart consumer move and since I think this is an easier task then say, making your PC. I think i will try it.


heres my first 2 ideas for a set up, im a noob so i need help with this.






My Premium version
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142961 
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4124860 



My Medium version
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4125720 
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142959 




what do you guys think?



Oh yea and my living room is 11.5' x 13'


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hi My Name Is* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never had a HITB before and this will be my first but even as a entry level consumer. From what i hear making my own is smart consumer move and since I think this is an easier task then say, making your PC. I think i will try it.
> 
> 
> heres my first 2 ideas for a set up, im a noob so i need help with this.
> 
> 
> My Premium version
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142961
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4124860
> 
> 
> My Medium version
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4125720
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142959
> 
> 
> what do you guys think?
> 
> 
> Oh yea and my living room is 11.5' x 13'



It would be helpful if you said what your budget was, and will it be used mainly for movies, music, and do you want 5.1 or 7.1?


Those are both great receivers, either would be a good choice depending on which features you want. Have you listened to any speakers yet? That would be a good place to start to determine what kind of sound you like. You can do much better than the HK speakers. They make fabulous receivers, but are not known for great speakers. If you read through this thread there are numerous good suggestions for speakers in your price range such as the Velodyne CHT's and a BIC H-100 subwoofer, but there are many more options.


Good luck!


----------



## Hi My Name Is

Actually I just realize that the Onkyo S990THX is going for 749.99 at J&R and since i live in NYC they won't charge TAX and the freight shipping is alot! cheaper for NYC rather then NY state.


749.99 is good, I thought it was still 800-900 something, so i said might as well squeeze a $1000 system out of my wallet and make my own HTIB.



Hell i'll just wait for next time to build my own. I don't know why i didn't see this one at that price, maybe because i didn't look at onkyo that hard on the site at first.



I was stretching my wallet real tight for a $1000 system ( I really didn't want to do it). $749.99 with no tax and cheap shipping for NY is a perfect price for me. I just hope the 7.1 won't over kill my 11.5 x 13.5 room. If so i'll just use it as a 5.1 untill I move to a bigger place in a couple of years or maybe next.


----------



## magicpie9882

As others have said, I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for providing tons of good suggestions and convincing me to build my own system. One major problem I found with looking at HTIB systems is that I wanted one without a DVD player, but there seem to be few decent options available (besides, possibly the Onkyo systems). I am looking to build a system for around $500, so I think I am going with the following:


Rec - Onkyo 504 ($169 from Amazon, free shipping)

Speakers - Velodyne Front Row CHT ($199 from Velodyne, free shipping)

Sub - Dayton 10' ($124 from Parts Express, plus shipping)


I might consider switching the speakers for some of the Polks that Ron Temple has suggested, but I'm a little worried about cost and size. I live in an apartment and may be moving soon, so I don't want to get anything too powerful or too difficult to transport. I am of course open to upgrading down the line and hope that the receiver will work for larger speakers as well.


A peculiarity of my living room is that it is joined to my kitchen directly. So, the actual living room area is about 12' x 15', but the adjoining kitchen makes the room much bigger (almost twice the size). I'm not sure if this should impact my speaker decision, since I am planning to set up the speakers to provide sound to only the living room portion (hopefully this makes some sense).


Also, I have not thought too much about the subwoofer, picking simply the cheapest one that G-Star suggested at the start of the thread. So, my questions are: can I get this sub for a cheaper price anywhere (perhaps with free shipping)? Are there other subs I should be considering in the $100-$150 range? I would prefer to stay toward the low end of that range, especially since I don't want to bother the neighbors in my building too much.


My final thoughts are about set-up. I believe I know how I'm hooking everything up except for the subwoofer - what kind of wire/cables do I need to hook this up to the receiver? I saw someone mention a digital coax cable, but I'm not sure if the 504 has a digital coax out. I am also trying to figure out how/where to set up all the speakers. It seems that I'll need stands for the L,R, and rear speakers. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, but cheap set of stands that will hold enough weight? Or simply a place to look for them? I heard someone say Walmart in another thread, but the only ones I found there are for up to 2-lb speakers, and I believe the Velodynes are 7 lbs each. And then the center speaker - should it be at the same height as the L and R speakers? I am trying to buy as little additional furniture as possible and work with what I have by putting the center speaker on my current TV stand.


I know I've asked a lot here, but really, any information would be quite helpful as I'm still new at this game.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magicpie9882* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I saw someone mention a digital coax cable, but I'm not sure if the 504 has a digital coax out.



If you're talking about the subwoofer, the digital coax cable will fit the subwoofer out on the 504. They're an RCA plug like everything else.


If you're talking about hooking up a DVD player to the receiver, the 504 has a digital coax IN for that purpose as well, so you're all set.







You can use the same type of cable for the sub as for hooking in a DVD player or a cable box or some such.


----------



## onebxr

Magicpie,

if you can, look at the bic h100 for your sub. I have owned this thing for about 2 weeks and it is simply amazing for the price. I have the sub and the velodyne front rows, and my home theatre is so much better. These speakers replaced some JBL flix speakers and an audiosource 10" sub. This was the best bang for the buck that I could find. The total came out to 439.00 for speakers.

-1


----------



## usp1

THere seem to be some very reasonable prices on Axoustics Research ARPXP62 (ninety nine a pair). I looked through the threads on the speaker forum and people seem to be quite impressed. Does anyone here have any comments abou them.


I am also considering the Mordaunt Short movie director 3001 HT speaker package for about 630.


How would the MS compare with the x-ls package which is about 150 more.


----------



## magicpie9882

Tulpa - thanks for the clarification there. I didn't realize that the subwoofer out was the same RCA plug. I was planning to hook up my cable box via optical and DVD player via digital coax (the only digital options for each of these). I guess I should consider hooking up the DVD player with analog cables as well as Ron Temple suggests. Sounds like the only other thing I need is speaker wire (16 gauge, I think) and maybe some banana plugs.


onebxr - I'm not sure I can quite afford the bic h100 right now, but everyone seems to be raving about it. Where did you get yours? Thanks for the tip.


----------



## onebxr

Magic,

I got mine on ebay, there are 2 different ebay retailers that sell them. Hit the make an offer button and make an offer. Do not pay the buy it now price. You can usually get it for about 10-15 bucks cheaper than the buy it now price. Acoustech is one of the retailers, I cant remember the name of the other. I am at work and ebay is blocked or I would find that out for you.

-Rich


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magicpie9882* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess I should consider hooking up the DVD player with analog cables as well as Ron Temple suggests.



If you're using those multi-channel music/audio discs like SACD or DVD-A, yes, use the analogs, too. If you're just viewing movies or regular run of the mill CDs, the digital connection alone will be fine.



> Quote:
> onebxr - I'm not sure I can quite afford the bic h100 right now, but everyone seems to be raving about it. Where did you get yours? Thanks for the tip.



Go on eBay and search for BIC Acoustech H-100. The seller is something like sound_distributors. They sell for $245, but they have a Make Offer option and some have gotten them for ~$200 before shipping. Shipping is something like $30, so figure about $230-$245 or so to get it to your door.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hi My Name Is* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I just realize that the Onkyo S990THX is going for 749.99 at J&R and since i live in NYC they won't charge TAX and the freight shipping is alot! cheaper for NYC rather then NY state.
> 
> 
> 749.99 is good, I thought it was still 800-900 something, so i said might as well squeeze a $1000 system out of my wallet and make my own HTIB.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell i'll just wait for next time to build my own. I don't know why i didn't see this one at that price, maybe because i didn't look at onkyo that hard on the site at first.
> 
> 
> 
> I was stretching my wallet real tight for a $1000 system ( I really didn't want to do it). $749.99 with no tax and cheap shipping for NY is a perfect price for me. I just hope the 7.1 won't over kill my 11.5 x 13.5 room. If so i'll just use it as a 5.1 untill I move to a bigger place in a couple of years or maybe next.



Part A:

I for one think you made a very good move. I can't speak from ears on experience with this system but I'm one who places a certain amount of respect on THX certification. Some think its merely a marketing scam. Certainly marketing has a role in it but the whole idea behind THX certs is fidelity with respect to source material. If you haven't already done it, do some perusing on the THX site and see whats involved in gaining the cert. I'm impressed. THX was born from George Lucas's frustration with theaters and equipment not reproducing faithfully his artistic endeavors. So you'll have some assurance that at least Star Wars will sound like he intended.


Part B:

Growing your system is one of the joys of AV as hobby/avocation. No matter how good I feel a component is, I'm always looking over the fence at the greener grass. Nothing wrong with that. Except of course, the daily calls from Visa.


Buying pieces is not as easy as it used to be. 2.0 was fairly straightforward. Matched speakers and you're good to go. Adding a sub, made the equation a bit more complex and now we're in to 5.1+. Matching components, selecting speakers with complimentary high and low pass filtering, frequency response, timbre, warmth and especially room acoustics can make this a challenging but rewarding project.


Good luck with your acquistion.


----------



## slubu

I was reviewing my speaker placement options, and given the entertainment center I have (which takes up the entire wall of the TV), I can easily put the fronts where they are supposed to be on shelves. This would be much better given my space constraints. The only problem is the shelves are 6" deep. Thus I'm back to satellite/sub setup again. (Unless some bookshelves will fit without possibly falling off?)


I listened to the Klipsch Quintet last night and didn't like them. I'm going to throw out some other smaller speaker setups to see if anyone has any opinions. I know Ron chimed in earlier on my previous list, but since it has been revised, feel free to chime in again:


- Mission m70s (~ 240)

- Athena Micras (~ ?, also I have no need for the sub...)

- Orb Audio (~ 500)


Any thoughts on either of these? Let's assume I can and will pony up for the Orbs too. I'm going quality here over looks. Mostly clarity as I can't boom music that much since I live with shared walls. Thanks again to everyone, you have made my life much easier.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magicpie9882* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> A peculiarity of my living room is that it is joined to my kitchen directly. So, the actual living room area is about 12' x 15', but the adjoining kitchen makes the room much bigger (almost twice the size). I'm not sure if this should impact my speaker decision, since I am planning to set up the speakers to provide sound to only the living room portion (hopefully this makes some sense).



I have somewhat the same type of layout, but my "theater area" also has a 20' vaulted ceiling and a foyer off to one side. This is a blessing and a curse. What I find is that I have to rely on the directionality of the speakers as there is very little from the room contributing to the acoustic effect. No walls behind the main speakers (except the sub) so the image in the room is very focused. If you are in the sweet spot, its great because there isn't any out of phase cancellation or complimentary addition. The quality of direct sound is the blessing part. If you want to just listen to good music say while in the kitchen, when your speakers are only 10 ft away (facing away), forget it. I can hear it but it sounds like the music is coming from the neighbors house. Eventually I may look at bi-pole or di-pole speaker options to loosen up the sound stage a bit.


In the meantime I may do a speaker switch and utilize the A-B speaker function to put some aft facing speakers to the rest of the area.


Take some pains in your speaker layout and it may well pay off.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> THere seem to be some very reasonable prices on Axoustics Research ARPXP62 (ninety nine a pair). I looked through the threads on the speaker forum and people seem to be quite impressed. Does anyone here have any comments abou them.
> 
> 
> I am also considering the Mordaunt Short movie director 3001 HT speaker package for about 630.
> 
> 
> How would the MS compare with the x-ls package which is about 150 more.



link me to the MSs and I'll take a look...I'm using M-S 902s for surrounds which I recently compared to the x-LSs. They are close to the same price from accessories4less @ $200 a pair. I forget to mention them since they don't get much playing time in my room...just movies and MCH. The 902s are excellent bookshelf speakers, brighter than the x-LS speakers, but not fatigueing, in fact, I prefer the liveler tweeter. Midrange is smooth with a surprising amount of bass. They image extremely well and the soundstage is very deep and goes slightly outside of placement. The x-LS speakers throw a huge soundstage, wonderful midrange, great for female vocals, good detail, but are a tad soft on the highs. A wine analogy would be a fruity Merlot vs a very tasty and mellow Chardonnay.


To shorten this...if the MS package includes the 902s then you might subjectively prefer them to the x series. If it includes lessor speakers the x series will probably be much better.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magicpie9882* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tulpa - thanks for the clarification there. I didn't realize that the subwoofer out was the same RCA plug. I was planning to hook up my cable box via optical and DVD player via digital coax (the only digital options for each of these). I guess I should consider hooking up the DVD player with analog cables as well as Ron Temple suggests. Sounds like the only other thing I need is speaker wire (16 gauge, I think) and maybe some banana plugs.
> 
> 
> onebxr - I'm not sure I can quite afford the bic h100 right now, but everyone seems to be raving about it. Where did you get yours? Thanks for the tip.



magicpie...my suggestion was only for the Oppo or other SACD/DVD-A capable players. You'll likely get no benefit to an analog connection if it's just vanilla prog scan or upscaler.


----------



## slubu

In conjunction with the alternatives thread, I'm auditioning the HSU Ventriloquist V-12 set on Monday - I will report back as best I can given my lack of knowledge, for those considering budget speakers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was reviewing my speaker placement options, and given the entertainment center I have (which takes up the entire wall of the TV), I can easily put the fronts where they are supposed to be on shelves. This would be much better given my space constraints. The only problem is the shelves are 6" deep. Thus I'm back to satellite/sub setup again. (Unless some bookshelves will fit without possibly falling off?)
> 
> 
> I listened to the Klipsch Quintet last night and didn't like them. I'm going to throw out some other smaller speaker setups to see if anyone has any opinions. I know Ron chimed in earlier on my previous list, but since it has been revised, feel free to chime in again:
> 
> 
> - Mission m70s (~ 240)
> 
> - Athena Micras (~ ?, also I have no need for the sub...)
> 
> - Orb Audio (~ 500)
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on either of these? Let's assume I can and will pony up for the Orbs too. I'm going quality here over looks. Mostly clarity as I can't boom music that much since I live with shared walls. Thanks again to everyone, you have made my life much easier.



There are some Orb fans on speakers...I've never heard them or the Micras, but I've never heard anything bad about either. In all likelihood, you'd be happy with any of them...probably get a smoother midrange out of the Orbs because they are more expensive and well liked (just my guess).


----------



## studdad

Hey guys:


I'm BACKKKKKKK.......


Don't have my speakers yet, but I do have my Yamaha 661 receiver and my OPPO 981 DVD. Ok, I was reading the manuals (I get the HD DVR upgrade tomorrow, so I haven't set everything up yet), and I noticed both the receiver and the DVD have speaker setups, as well as sound setups. So,,,,do I set them up on both devices, or do I somehow disable the DVD setup and let the receiver take control. If I should disable the DVD setup, how would I do that? My set up will have HDMI cables from the DVD and DVR boxes to the receiver, and a single HDMI cable to the TV.


Thanks


----------



## Augmont




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone:
> 
> 
> I have everything ordered, now comes the wait. I went with the following
> 
> 
> Yamaha 661 receiver
> 
> x-ls speakers
> 
> x-ls center speaker
> 
> x-sub (explanation below)
> 
> 24" x-ls speaker stands
> 
> Oppo 981 DVD
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I was going to go with the Bic sub, but it did not pass the wife test. She wanted the woodgrain finish on the speakers, and of course, the sub had to match. I looked up the specs, and though the Bic looks to have greater range, and is probably the better choice, I am sure the x-sub will be good (I looked up some info on the net, and talked with the people at the company). The x-sub also had the advantage of being smaller, and will fit in my limited space better anyway.
> 
> 
> Ok, another question for you guys. Do any of you have any feedback on getting Directv HD. I am a current Directv customer (without any HD), and want to upgrade to the HD DVR HR 20. I called Directv and they will upgrade my dish for free, but I have to pay $299 for the HD DVR, and I had to renew my 2 year contract. I tried to haggle with the person, but it was a regular customer service person, and she said she would have a specialist call me back in couple days. I have heard Directv does haggle with people (just like a car lot), so I was wondering if any of you have had any success with them, and what you got? If not, I will just pay the $299 and get on with my life.
> 
> 
> Once the system is all set up, I will let you guys know how its going. Thanks again for all your help!



I have had the HR20 since Nov. It's alot better now than before with all the software fixes they've had. Overall i'm happy.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys:
> 
> 
> I'm BACKKKKKKK.......
> 
> 
> Don't have my speakers yet, but I do have my Yamaha 661 receiver and my OPPO 981 DVD. Ok, I was reading the manuals (I get the HD DVR upgrade tomorrow, so I haven't set everything up yet), and I noticed both the receiver and the DVD have speaker setups, as well as sound setups. So,,,,do I set them up on both devices, or do I somehow disable the DVD setup and let the receiver take control. If I should disable the DVD setup, how would I do that? My set up will have HDMI cables from the DVD and DVR boxes to the receiver, and a single HDMI cable to the TV.
> 
> 
> Thanks



The receiver is the priority...in setup on the Oppo just select RAW (digital). The speaker and bass management setup on the Oppo applies to SACD and DVD A, as well as, direct CD playback bypassing the receiver for everything but amplification. It's not as confusing as it sounds...once the AVR is set properly and the Oppo is setup for digital (RAW) DVDs will be automatically detected, other sources as well.


----------



## Hi My Name Is




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Part A:
> 
> I for one think you made a very good move. I can't speak from ears on experience with this system but I'm one who places a certain amount of respect on THX certification. Some think its merely a marketing scam. Certainly marketing has a role in it but the whole idea behind THX certs is fidelity with respect to source material. If you haven't already done it, do some perusing on the THX site and see whats involved in gaining the cert. I'm impressed. THX was born from George Lucas's frustration with theaters and equipment not reproducing faithfully his artistic endeavors. So you'll have some assurance that at least Star Wars will sound like he intended.
> 
> 
> Part B:
> 
> Growing your system is one of the joys of AV as hobby/avocation. No matter how good I feel a component is, I'm always looking over the fence at the greener grass. Nothing wrong with that. Except of course, the daily calls from Visa.
> 
> 
> Buying pieces is not as easy as it used to be. 2.0 was fairly straightforward. Matched speakers and you're good to go. Adding a sub, made the equation a bit more complex and now we're in to 5.1+. Matching components, selecting speakers with complimentary high and low pass filtering, frequency response, timbre, warmth and especially room acoustics can make this a challenging but rewarding project.
> 
> 
> Good luck with your acquistion.




I didn't know they had a site for THX certs, i'll check it out. This is my first system, and i plan on being an Audiophile and Videophile as i get more knowledgable. Im going to school for Electronics Engineering. This is the only type of thing i can think of doing for a living. It took me a while to find what i wanted to do for a living, hell im and old man now (well 22, but too old to be finding my career choice ) but i finally found it. What type of nice jobs could an audiophile and videophile have though, I do ask?


I mean i know theres the typical retail like, J&R ,bestbuy, and circuitcity Home theatre deparment manager, but is their more? and is Electronic Engineering the right class choice to get involve in this. I was going for Compiter Engineering but audio and video is so much more entertaining to me. This is my career choice for atleast a stable living to support a family when im ready to start one. My dream is still to be a screen writer and direct my own movies but the odds of that is 1 and a Billion. So im going to go after my hobby first and make living off of it, then attack screen writing.



Anyone can reply to this post, thank you


----------



## studdad

Ron:


thanks again!!


----------



## studdad

Augmont:


Thanks for your feedback too. I will be getting my HD DVR tomorrow......Now its just the remaining wait for the new Speakers. Have to use my old HTIB speakers for now, and they are terrible. Am going to wait to give feedback until after I get the new speakers, as the old ones wont do the system justice.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> link me to the MSs and I'll take a look...I'm using M-S 902s for surrounds which I recently compared to the x-LSs. They are close to the same price from accessories4less @ $200 a pair. I forget to mention them since they don't get much playing time in my room...just movies and MCH. The 902s are excellent bookshelf speakers, brighter than the x-LS speakers, but not fatigueing, in fact, I prefer the liveler tweeter. Midrange is smooth with a surprising amount of bass. They image extremely well and the soundstage is very deep and goes slightly outside of placement. The x-LS speakers throw a huge soundstage, wonderful midrange, great for female vocals, good detail, but are a tad soft on the highs. A wine analogy would be a fruity Merlot vs a very tasty and mellow Chardonnay.
> 
> 
> To shorten this...if the MS package includes the 902s then you might subjectively prefer them to the x series. If it includes lessor speakers the x series will probably be much better.



Thanks for the help. Any comments on the Acoustic Research ARXP62s ...seem to heavily discounted at JR


Here is the link for the MS package http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/moshmospsy30.html It uses 302s, which I guess are a far cry from the 902 (?). Also all the bundled monster cables makes me think that the price is probably inflated because of the ridiculously inflated prices for those cables.


Love fruity Merlots....







.


----------



## max 55

hey, Fry's has PSW303 on sale for $150! Does anyone here have any experience with this sub? How does it compare with PSW10 and PSW12?


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *max 55* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey, Fry's has PSW303 on sale for $150! Does anyone here have any experience with this sub? How does it compare with PSW10 and PSW12?



A Google search turns up a few things, including this page of comments at the Polk Audio site 


You can also read some AVS Forum comments


----------



## mrgribbles

Hello Hi my name is,

Mr. Spielberg, I love your ambition. Go for it all. I envy you.


This is somewhat off the thread topic but:


I have a son who is a recent Computer Engineering grad and he's a programmer for a major multi-national but his heart's avocation is in sound/music engineering (mixing, digitizing). He does this part time and he's got all the tools/toys but I'm not sure if he makes any money at it. Maybe someday. He does hang a bit with the music crowd and maybe thats his path into the entertainment business.


The interesting thing is that when music went digital, the scope completely changed and computing is as much a part of media as is the artistry. There are plenty of opportunities to get into film from the technical side so any base grounded in EE or in computing certainly wouldn't hurt. See if your school offers film or media science classes and try to take some of these as electives or as a minor. Although, I can tell you from experience that engineering programs don't leave you much time for electives. I personally have some audio responsibilities but they are more commercial and legal than entertaining.


You will find in many of these forums a lot of very valuable info for the A/V-phile and some very knowledegable and connected people in the industry. There are quite a few who make their living in home theater as consultants and

technicians/engineers. There are a number of professional orgs like ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) that offer certification and other societies like SMPTE (Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers) that offer membership. Now those are the groups you want to associate yourself with. There are others and most offer associate memberships for those just starting out.


Best of luck in your endeavors. I'll be looking for you in the credits.


----------



## Hi My Name Is

Your son is extremely lucky to have a father like you , thanks a whole lot sir. I will definitely look into ISF and SMPTE sir. Congradulations to your son for finding two hobbies that interlock together well. Hopefully im just as lucky as him. Im new to this beloved hobby so im still asking around to see if Electronic Engerneeing is a waste of time and money compared to a class thats more direct for upcoming audiophiles and videophiles.


Once again thank you very much for your concern words sir.lol Hopefully one day i'll have the oppertunity to make Horror flicks like they were suppose to be made. Not just blood and guts but the art of scaring people with perfect timing, sound, visuals, dialog, story telling and atmosphere. After i make a successfull run in that genre of film. Its bigger things like fantasy base epic movies with valuble meanings, life lessons, and beliefs embedded into the story line and beautiful effects with in a fictional world. But who knows lol


----------



## MarkMcD

I'd first like to say that I really enjoy this forum. I stumbled on it last week as I was searching for reviews of HT and HTIB systems and components. I was getting so frustrated that I was about to go for some sort of HTIB or single speaker solution. But this forum has inspired me to try and build a system myself, even if I have to spread the costs out over time.


We have a 18 x 14 family room with a 50 inch Panasonic. The rear wall (where the couch is) is about half open, leading into our kitchen. The TV is about 10 feet from the couch. Floors are mostly hardwood; walls are wallboard , half taken up by wood furniture and windows (besides the opening).


I may not be able to run all the wires to the back at the start, so I was toying with the idea of just initially buying a 3.1 setup off the list of recommendations listed at the start of this thread. Would also save a bit of money to start with.


Given the size and layout of this room, any recommendations for the 3.1 (and eventual 5.1) speakers?


My main concern is what receiver to buy. I saw some comments earlier in the thread that you should not overspend on the receiver--make sure invest enough in good speakers. At the same time, though, I was intrigued by the idea of getting something like the Onkyo 604 or 674 which have the 2 to 1 HDMI switching. Our TV has only one HDMI input, so right now we have the cable-provided DVR hooked directly to the TV. Our cheapo DVD player goes by component video to the TV. System works ok; I tried the DVD player on the HDMI to the TV; didn't see much difference vs. component.


For the future, though, I'm assuming at some point we'll want a HD DVD player and would want (or have to?) run that over HDMI. So the HDMI switching seems like a good bet. But I'd only do it if it offers a performance benefit (given our setup we don't care about the esthetics of having a single cable running to the TV). And you do pay a good bit more for that type of receiver. I read some of the Video threads on AV receivers and saw the problems folks still have in actually getting the switching to work with audio, so that has also given me pause for thought on this.


Besides the HDMI switching (and assuming that works ok), are there other performance benefits to spending more for the receiver (such as a 604 or 674)?


If not, what would be a good compromise that would take us at least 3-4 years down the road?


Thanks in advance for the advice


Mark


----------



## mrgribbles

Mark,


Within a month or so Onkyo and maybe others will be releasing their new series of receivers that will have features that you are going to want but don't exist now, like high speed bitstream through HDMI 1.3, internal DD TrueHD and DTS MA decoding to name a few. It is rumored that the new Onkyo 605 will be on the street for under $400.


Do yourself a big favor and go to the receiver forum, look up the new Onkyos.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkMcD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Besides the HDMI switching (and assuming that works ok), are there other performance benefits to spending more for the receiver (such as a 604 or 674)?
> 
> 
> If not, what would be a good compromise that would take us at least 3-4 years down the road?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice
> 
> 
> Mark



Does your TV have more than one HDMI inputs? If so, I'd wait until the bugs are ironed out...too many handshake or sound issues for my piece of mind. Though if you have a single HDMI input on the TV you will need some kind of switch.


For a temporary solution that I feel is better than the Onkyo, check Harmon Direct on ebay. It's the factory store that auctions refurbs with full warranty. If you are careful you could score a 235, 240, 335, 340 or even a 635 for less than a third of MSRP. Auctions are daily. No HDMI, just great features and sound quality. The Onkyo 504 is a fine unit as well. I just prefer HK.


----------



## MarkMcD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does your TV have more than one HDMI inputs? If so, I'd wait until the bugs are ironed out...too many handshake or sound issues for my piece of mind. Though if you have a single HDMI input on the TV you will need some kind of switch.
> 
> 
> For a temporary solution that I feel is better than the Onkyo, check Harmon Direct on ebay. It's the factory store that auctions refurbs with full warranty. If you are careful you could score a 235, 240, 335, 340 or even a 635 for less than a third of MSRP. Auctions are daily. No HDMI, just great features and sound quality. The Onkyo 504 is a fine unit as well. I just prefer HK.



Ron--Thanks. Unfortunately our TV has only the single HDMI input. I guess we can always use one of those switches I've seen mentioned in this forum. Run around $90, if I recall correctly.


I'll definitely follow up on your HK suggestion. It sounds like you are suggesting getting the best audio for the buck now and waiting for the HDMI switching technology to mature.


Thanks,


Mark


----------



## MarkMcD

Mrgribbles,


Thanks for that. I'll take a look.


Mark


----------



## brianjen13

I have followed this thread forever and now I have finally decided what I can afford. See what you guys think(budget $500 MAX):

1. Onkyo SR504 $160

2. Polk R150s $50

3. Polk Csi25 $70(When on sale)

4. Here is the problem. What to get for a sub:

1. Velodyne VX-10 $160

2. AV123 x sub $199

3. Bic H-100 $230

Which sub would you guys recommend. The av123 sub is only8 in. The Bic is over my price and I don't know if the wife will let me swing that much dough on a surround sound. Originally it was supposed to be $400 for 5-7 speakers, now I am at $500 with 3 speakers.

Another question. If I pair the Polks with a sub will there be some bottom midrange missing since they are only 5.25in speakers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have followed this thread forever and now I have finally decided what I can afford. See what you guys think(budget $500 MAX):
> 
> 1. Onkyo SR504 $160
> 
> 2. Polk R150s $50
> 
> 3. Polk Csi25 $70(When on sale)
> 
> 4. Here is the problem. What to get for a sub:
> 
> 1. Velodyne VX-10 $160
> 
> 2. AV123 x sub $199
> 
> 3. Bic H-100 $230
> 
> Which sub would you guys recommend. The av123 sub is only8 in. The Bic is over my price and I don't know if the wife will let me swing that much dough on a surround sound. Originally it was supposed to be $400 for 5-7 speakers, now I am at $500 with 3 speakers.
> 
> Another question. If I pair the Polks with a sub will there be some bottom midrange missing since they are only 5.25in speakers.



The Polks go down to 60hz +/- 3db, so you're fine with any of these three subs. The x-sub is a fine sub that can get you in the mid-twenties with the right placement and room size...very musical too...go for it, get the other R150s later.


----------



## Yeto

Put the Yamaha NS-SP5700BL on the top of your list. Great sounding speakers that can be found on sale in the mid 2 range.


Hope this helps,

Yeto


----------



## Yeto

Check out the Yamaha NS-SP5700 5.1 speakers. They sound great and can be found, on sale, in the mid $200 range.


Hope this helps,

Yeto


----------



## tooskinny

Saw today American has the R150's for 49.99 in store only of course.


----------



## sambow87

So I have my speakers (R300s, CSR) set to large with a crossover at 80. I was getting some really good bass from my Training Day HD DVD last night.


What does setting the speakers to small mean? I mean, I understand a little bit, but does it not send signals to the speakers (like lower frequencies) if I set them to small, and they just go to the bass?


Thanks,


Sam


----------



## Tulpa

Yeah, basically the small and large settings determine whether the sub gets to work more or not.


On front speakers with enough bass to act as their own subs, they should be set to large. Typically (but not always), these setups forgo the subwoofer.


If your fronts don't have great bass, then set them to small so the sub can carry the load, like subs are supposed to do.


In the end, though, it's all about what you want to hear. Play with all the settings and log them to keep track of what you did, and then set it to the one(s) you like best.


----------



## Ron Temple

For HT, typically you run even floorstanders small with a crossover about 1/2 an octave above their rolloff point (+/- 3db). Your Polks start rolling off in the mid 50s. They should be set to small and xover no lower than 60hz. The crossover does 2 things, it sends the LFE channel bass information for the sub to play (which it does better than your speakers) and takes a load off the AVRs amplifiers. It takes a ton of power do produce LF. You midrange and highs will improve.


I have full range speakers...even I run them small for everything but 2 channel music.


----------



## brianjen13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Polks go down to 60hz +/- 3db, so you're fine with any of these three subs. The x-sub is a fine sub that can get you in the mid-twenties with the right placement and room size...very musical too...go for it, get the other R150s later.



I guess my question is: Is there that much diferenence between the x sub and the H-100. Also my friend has a $350 Klipsch sub that rocks his house. How would either of thses two subs compare. I know $350 vs. $200. Just wondering, trying to get a baseline for the decible and tone of the subs. Thanks for the input. Greatly appreciated


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess my question is: Is there that much diferenence between the x sub and the H-100. Also my friend has a $350 Klipsch sub that rocks his house. How would either of thses two subs compare. I know $350 vs. $200. Just wondering, trying to get a baseline for the decible and tone of the subs. Thanks for the input. Greatly appreciated



Which Klipsch sub? The Sub 10 and 12 are pretty good, the older KSW line isn't. I've heard the Bic...it's extremely good for a $230 sub...probably as good as a $4-500 retail sub depending on the brand in the right sized room. I haven't heard the x-sub, but people I trust say it's very musical and performs above 30hz better than the Bic.


To get back to your question, I've seen some Klipsch questions on the sub forum from people that can get the Sub12 for ~ $250, give or take. For that price, they should go for it for resale value alone. At close to retail, then it's not a close decision go with the BIC or x-sub.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For HT, typically you run even floorstanders small with a crossover about 1/2 an octave above their rolloff point (+/- 3db). Your Polks start rolling off in the mid 50s. They should be set to small and xover no lower than 60hz.



Just to try to translate this - my understanding is that an octave is a doubling or halving of the frequency. Since you're talking about an octave up is it


(rolloff x 1) to go an octave up, x 1/2


So half an octave up from the mid 50's would be closer to 80?


It's a little confusing since an octave down from mid 50's would be half that - around 25-30hz - but an octave up from mid-50s would be twice that, or about 110hz.


So you could be looking at


(rolloff x 1/2) to go an octave down, x 1/2


----------



## blobula

I just wanted to pop in and say this is a great thread. I've been following it for awhile and I enjoy all of the feedback posted on solutions to HTIB's. I have a small room 11' x 11' that I was looking at speakers for and this thread has offered a great solutions on speakers for great prices.


I'm definitely looking into getting the Polk R150's. Is there much of a difference between using the R300's for front L/R speakers than going with R150's?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just to try to translate this - my understanding is that an octave is a doubling or halving of the frequency. Since you're talking about an octave up is it
> 
> 
> (rolloff x 1) to go an octave up, x 1/2
> 
> 
> So half an octave up from the mid 50's would be closer to 80?
> 
> 
> It's a little confusing since an octave down from mid 50's would be half that - around 25-30hz - but an octave up from mid-50s would be twice that, or about 110hz.
> 
> 
> So you could be looking at
> 
> 
> (rolloff x 1/2) to go an octave down, x 1/2



You've got it right...80hz is indicated by the 1/2 octave guidline. However, 60hz will work since it's still above the rolloff point. Try both and see which you prefer. 80hz will probably be fine.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm definitely looking into getting the Polk R150's. Is there much of a difference between using the R300's for front L/R speakers than going with R150's?



I think I posted this before...the larger cabinet and driver will emphasize the midrange and midbass more than the bookshelf. The speakers are timbre matched so they will both sound like Polk R speakers, just the R300s will offer a slightly richer, more full sound.


Paired with a nice sub most bookshelf fans prefer them to floorstanders. I'm not one of them. I've heard some great bookshelf sub combos. To me a floorstander of equal quality paired with the same sub will trump the bookie. JMO


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I posted this before...the larger cabinet and driver will emphasize the midrange and midbass more than the bookshelf. The speakers are timbre matched so they will both sound like Polk R speakers, just the R300s will offer a slightly richer, more full sound.
> 
> 
> Paired with a nice sub most bookshelf fans prefer them to floorstanders. I'm not one of them. I've heard some great bookshelf sub combos. To me a floorstander of equal quality paired with the same sub will trump the bookie. JMO




Thanks. Yes you mentioned it a few pages back, my bad.


----------



## valuebuyer

Hi experts,

Please pardon if this has been answered already in this thread (or somewhere else for that matter). Looking at the current price points Polk R150s are available for 50 a pair and with central channel for 99. The Velodyne sparker set is also around 200 for 5 speakers.

In terms of quality is there anything to choose between them? How do they differ?

Thanks for this great thread. It actually changes perspectives for beginners like me.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi experts,
> 
> Please pardon if this has been answered already in this thread (or somewhere else for that matter). Looking at the current price points Polk R150s are available for 50 a pair and with central channel for 99. Also the Velodyne is also around 200 for 5 speakers.
> 
> In terms of quality is there anything to choose between them? How do they differ?
> 
> Thanks for this great thread. It actually changes perspectives for beginners like me.



bookshelf vs satelite...look at the specs and dimensions...both are bargains.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/r150/ 
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/csi25/ 

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...V&sid=617r145x 


The Polks are going to offer a richer midrange, but the Velos are well designed and don't take us much space. Pick which suits you best.


----------



## valuebuyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> bookshelf vs satelite...look at the specs and dimensions...both are bargains.
> 
> .......
> 
> The Polks are going to offer a richer midrange, but the Velos are well designed and don't take us much space. Pick which suits you best.



Thanks Ron. First of all either (with an Onkyo receiver) will be a major upgrade from my current crappy Panasonic HTIB. My main usage is going to be for movies and not as much for music. Also my living room is a large sized room with lot of open spaces (20 ft tall ceiling and living room flowing into dining area). I am not sure if that gives any data points for a decision.

I listened to Polks yesterday in Frys and liked what I heard. I am not sure if Velodyne are on display in some B&M shop.


----------



## brianjen13

Man, this thred is great. Before I seen it I was going to buy some crappy HTIB(Sorry to those HTIBers







). I am going to end up with less speakers(Only 3.1 for now) but I know that I am going to be alot happier with what I have.


----------



## Tulpa

Everyone makes their choice in regards to what they want in a HT.


And it's not like you can't upgrade the better HTIBs, either.


----------



## SilverBlade

I do have a question:


I have a $2000 budget on Speakers+sub+receiver (doesn't include DVD player, TV, or Audio stand)


What is 'Most important'...or where should I spend more money on...the speakers (5.1), or the receiver?


----------



## Tulpa

Speakers. You can get a solid receiver for around $200 or so, and excellent speakers with the difference.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron. First of all either (with an Onkyo receiver) will be a major upgrade from my current crappy Panasonic HTIB. My main usage is going to be for movies and not as much for music. Also my living room is a large sized room with lot of open spaces (20 ft tall ceiling and living room flowing into dining area). I am not sure if that gives any data points for a decision.
> 
> I listened to Polks yesterday in Frys and liked what I heard. I am not sure if Velodyne are on display in some B&M shop.



It sounds like you have a huge room to fill. The smaller you go, I feel, the less you'll be happy. If your budget is tight try 2 or 3.1 out first with floorstanders and a nice sub. Figure out what you like or not from there. The bookshelves will be better than the sats in your room and floorstanders will be better than the books.


----------



## valuebuyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It sounds like you have a huge room to fill. The smaller you go, I feel, the less you'll be happy. If your budget is tight try 2 or 3.1 out first with floorstanders and a nice sub. Figure out what you like or not from there. The bookshelves will be better than the sats in your room and floorstanders will be better than the books.



Thanks Ron.

Just when I got closer to a decision on R150s, I read in the posts earlier that those can not be wall mounted. damnnn.. R15s are not to be found anywhere right now. How have you guys mounted your front R150s? On a stand? I was hoping to have a nice clean look of wall mounted speakers on either side of my wall mounted plasma. Are there any other speaker options in that price range?


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> bookshelf vs satelite...look at the specs and dimensions...both are bargains.
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/r150/
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/csi25/
> 
> http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...V&sid=617r145x
> 
> 
> The Polks are going to offer a richer midrange, but the Velos are well designed and don't take us much space. Pick which suits you best.



Would we want to use a Polk center rated @ 4 ohms with fronts rated @ 8??


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I posted this before...the larger cabinet and driver will emphasize the midrange and midbass more than the bookshelf.



I think it would be interesting for people to hear (for example) a 2 khz* tone to hear how high that is. I think most people would be surprised, since they think up toward 20 khz is high. (*k = 1000, so 2 khz = 2000 hz) That's the range where the crossover to the tweeter takes place (or a little higher), so it's an interesting reference point.


The highest note on a piano is about 4 khz.


The point being, a lot of the sound you want to hear is midrange and lower.


Also, I think people might be surprised at how high 100 or 150 hz is. A lot of really small speakers drop off a lot in that range.


The point there being, that's also sound you want your mains to produce, if you can - so if you can fit in / live with speakers that have a 5" to 6.5" speaker, which can really deliver down to 80-100 hz, you ought to.


Somewhat related / somewhat separate topic - some might find it interesting to play with something like this test cd to see where the bass rolloff really is on their speakers.

audio test cd 


just don't turn it up too loud


for fun, you can also hear where the tweeter crosses over if you listen closely (and close to the speaker) - again, not too loud


There's another version around with more freqs in the low end, too.


----------



## usp1

Yesterday evening I had a chance to go and listen to some speakers at CC. They had some Polk Monitor 50s paired with velodyne dps10 sub and being driven by a denon avr 587. I dont know if this is normal, but I found that i was exhausted after listening to the speakers for about 7 minutes. The velodynes sounded incredibly boomy ... may have to do with their placement in a corner. No amount of fiddling with the amp and controls or making slight adjustments seemed to improve them.


----------



## SaveMeJebus

Hi all, long time lurking, first time posting.


My wife has given me the green light to buy a new tv and HT solution, and I am gladly taking her up on that approval.


To that end, I have begun the journey by winning an auction on a new bic h-100 sub this morning, meaning I've committed myself now! Wife doesn't care about the tv, but she wants a sound system that delivers... and presumably beats the pants off our 4 year old bargain bin Sony HTIB (which is awful - really drowns out voices with background sound).


I must confess, this is all new but exciting to me, and hopefully you all can keep me from plugging speaker wire into a power outlet and lighting myself up like a Christmas tree. This will be a 2.1 system for now, as I've made promises of not having wires and speakers all over the place.


Here is what I'm thinking:


TV: Pioneer 5070

sub: bic h-100 (purchased)

speakers: either the AV123 X-LS or the Athena AS-B1.2

** At a loss here as I've heard good things about both. Perfectly willing to spend the extra amount on the AV123 pair if it will make a noticeable difference.

Receiver: Either the Onkyo 504 or the Yamaha 5930(black) - both are about the same price new on Amazon. Don't know if either offers any advantage over the other.


DVD player: ?? No idea. Guess I need an upconversion one.


All of this will be on a tv stand, and I will be using Verizon Fios with a HD STB. As stated, this is all very new to me, and I have no idea how to connect it all up. I know Monoprice is my place for cables, but I confess to not knowing what I need or how much of it I need!


Any and all help much appreciated.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all, long time lurking, first time posting.
> 
> 
> My wife has given me the green light to buy a new tv and HT solution, and I am gladly taking her up on that approval.
> 
> 
> To that end, I have begun the journey by winning an auction on a new bic h-100 sub this morning, meaning I've committed myself now! Wife doesn't care about the tv, but she wants a sound system that delivers... and presumably beats the pants off our 4 year old bargain bin Sony HTIB (which is awful - really drowns out voices with background sound).
> 
> 
> I must confess, this is all new but exciting to me, and hopefully you all can keep me from plugging speaker wire into a power outlet and lighting myself up like a Christmas tree. This will be a 2.1 system for now, as I've made promises of not having wires and speakers all over the place.
> 
> 
> Here is what I'm thinking:
> 
> 
> TV: Pioneer 5070
> 
> sub: bic h-100 (purchased)
> 
> speakers: either the AV123 X-LS or the Athena AS-B1.2
> 
> ** At a loss here as I've heard good things about both. Perfectly willing to spend the extra amount on the AV123 pair if it will make a noticeable difference.
> 
> Receiver: Either the Onkyo 504 or the Yamaha 5930(black) - both are about the same price new on Amazon. Don't know if either offers any advantage over the other.
> 
> 
> DVD player: ?? No idea. Guess I need an upconversion one.
> 
> 
> All of this will be on a tv stand, and I will be using Verizon Fios with a HD STB. As stated, this is all very new to me, and I have no idea how to connect it all up. I know Monoprice is my place for cables, but I confess to not knowing what I need or how much of it I need!
> 
> 
> Any and all help much appreciated.



From a somewhat newbie to a full newbie, I'll try and answer what I can. I have the Bic sub too, and the onkyo 504.


You will need audio optical or coax cables from your video sources to your receiver, and one to your sub. You will also need speaker wire, probably 14 guage unless you are placing your speakers more than 50ft from the receiver. I still don't know what the deal is with banana plugs, so I can't help you there. Myself, I'm leaning towards the AV123 speakers because I heard athenas are bright and I don't like that.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is what I'm thinking:
> 
> 
> TV: Pioneer 5070
> 
> sub: bic h-100 (purchased)
> 
> speakers: either the AV123 X-LS or the Athena AS-B1.2
> 
> ** At a loss here as I've heard good things about both. Perfectly willing to spend the extra amount on the AV123 pair if it will make a noticeable difference.
> 
> Receiver: Either the Onkyo 504 or the Yamaha 5930(black) - both are about the same price new on Amazon. Don't know if either offers any advantage over the other.
> 
> 
> DVD player: ?? No idea. Guess I need an upconversion one.



-excellent choice for the TV. the sub is one of the best for around $200, too.


-for the speakers, the AV123's are a step up from the athenas, which are solid entry level speakers. the athena's match well the onkyo receiver (not too bright), but if you have the means you'll probably get better performance out of the AV123 set. i have athenas and like them, but many trusted opinions give a big thumbs up to AV123.


-if you don't go the oppo route, the sony NH75S is a good upconverting DVD player that can be had for


----------



## Ron Temple

G-star has the Athenas and loves them, maybe he'll chime in...or ping him. I already recommended the x-series, they are alot of speaker. If you are looking for a warm speaker...go for it.


usp1 - there are brackets that you can mount rear ported speakers with...I'll find a link later. The monitor 50 is not one of my favorite Polk speakers, but the DPS 10 is a nice sub, it just wasn't setup right at CC. The only drawback is it's retail price...you can get alot more for $450 from SVS or Hsu.


mrgribbles - a single 4 ohm speaker shouldn't effect most AVRs...from what I've heard the Onk 504 is 4 ohm stable. My son uses this center with no problems. Don't know why Polk made it 4 ohm though...


----------



## max 55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have followed this thread forever and now I have finally decided what I can afford. See what you guys think(budget $500 MAX):
> 
> 1. Onkyo SR504 $160
> 
> 2. Polk R150s $50
> 
> 3. Polk Csi25 $70(When on sale)
> 
> 4. Here is the problem. What to get for a sub:
> 
> 1. Velodyne VX-10 $160
> 
> 2. AV123 x sub $199
> 
> 3. Bic H-100 $230
> 
> Which sub would you guys recommend. The av123 sub is only8 in. The Bic is over my price and I don't know if the wife will let me swing that much dough on a surround sound. Originally it was supposed to be $400 for 5-7 speakers, now I am at $500 with 3 speakers.
> 
> Another question. If I pair the Polks with a sub will there be some bottom midrange missing since they are only 5.25in speakers.



I am a newbie myself, so I can't give you any insight on the quality of subs, but I just bought a new H-100 off the ebay for $200 (seller is sound_distributors). They have a "buy it now" price of $245, but accepted my offer of $200. So if you like H-100 better, price should not be an issue.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

SVS or AV123? Which speaker would be the best in your opinion. Will be using in a 5.1 setup with a Sony receiver for starters, cheap one at that. Just wondering about the trickle down effect of AV123, they make some great high end stuff so do you think their entry level stuff will be superior to most other lines?


----------



## SaveMeJebus

Thanks for the help guys!


Going back to my cabling nightmare... is there any difference between using optical cables or component? Is it only one wire with optical (less wires is a big plus with the wife).


Trying to figure out what wires I need to buy and how much of it, and I'm drawing a blank lol. Everything will be in close proximity, as tv will be on a stand and the speakers (2.1) will all be close.


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SVS or AV123? Which speaker would be the best in your opinion. Will be using in a 5.1 setup with a Sony receiver for starters, cheap one at that. Just wondering about the trickle down effect of AV123, they make some great high end stuff so do you think their entry level stuff will be superior to most other lines?




I have the X-LS/CS front combo, and could not be happier. I do not think that you can go wrong with any of there AV123 speaker lines. AV123 will let you try a pair of there bookshelfs risk free. Craigsub had some good things to say about the SVS speakers, I just have no experience with them.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> mrgribbles - a single 4 ohm speaker shouldn't effect most AVRs...from what I've heard the Onk 504 is 4 ohm stable. My son uses this center with no problems. Don't know why Polk made it 4 ohm though...



Thanks for the reply. In theory, a watt is a watt and if you set your levels at a reference, the multiplier circuitry should cover it in actual use. It should be linear but in my experience the output levels can run uneven in amplification when not impedance matched. Noticeable? Hard to predict. Your hands on experience is worth more than any spec.


I think Polk has an almost identical unit, I don't know the number, that is 8 ohm for a few bucks more. This subject speaker is popular though, so there must be some satisfied folks using it. Like you, I also don't know why they'd put a bit of maverick right in the middle of their mainstream lineup? But, they know this stuff a whole lot better than I.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SVS or AV123? Which speaker would be the best in your opinion. Will be using in a 5.1 setup with a Sony receiver for starters, cheap one at that. Just wondering about the trickle down effect of AV123, they make some great high end stuff so do you think their entry level stuff will be superior to most other lines?



The x-series are huge compared to the SVS books...both are very nice, if you're into music first, I'd go with the x-series. However, I'd go with the SVS sub. For a compelling HT experience that sub will make the most difference in the overall system. Not that the SBS or SCS speakers aren't musical, they are.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> usp1 - there are brackets that you can mount rear ported speakers with...I'll find a link later. The monitor 50 is not one of my favorite Polk speakers, but the DPS 10 is a nice sub, it just wasn't setup right at CC. The only drawback is it's retail price...you can get alot more for $450 from SVS or Hsu.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Ron. I wasnt very impressed with the Monitor 50s either...sounded too nasally. I guess it is between the

1. AV123 x-series 5.1 package; and

2. SVS SBS-01 with either the PB10 ( on sale for silver or white - 799).


I had hoped that I would be able to go listen to the speakers before buying but living in a small town there are very limited opportunites other than big box stores. And after my CC experience I am not sure there is much to be gained by auditioning speakers in a poorly set-up room.



Which of the two sets is the more musical?( I know you said before that the x-series are very refined)


( I guess my question got answered in the time that it took me to type it...thanks Ron)


----------



## Patriot12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. In theory, a watt is a watt and if you set your levels at a reference, the multiplier circuitry should cover it in actual use. It should be linear but in my experience the output levels can run uneven in amplification when not impedance matched. Noticeable? Hard to predict. Your hands on experience is worth more than any spec.
> 
> 
> I think Polk has an almost identical unit, I don't know the number, that is 8 ohm for a few bucks more. This subject speaker is popular though, so there must be some satisfied folks using it. Like you, I also don't know why they'd put a bit of maverick right in the middle of their mainstream lineup? But, they know this stuff a whole lot better than I.



The CSi25 is $59 at Frys now. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to just use the exact same bookshelf speaker for your center though. I've read a respected sound guru that said it would be better than using a special center speaker and that they are usually more for looks than sound. So a person could just buy the Polk R15 all the way around. What's the story on the Polk sub woofers like the PSW10 or 12. They don't seem to mentioned here at all. Wouldn't you want to stay with the same manufacturer for your sub woofer as well?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron. I wasnt very impressed with the Monitor 50s either...sounded too nasally. I guess it is between the
> 
> 1. AV123 x-series 5.1 package; and
> 
> 2. SVS SBS-01 with either the PB10 ( on sale for silver or white - 799).
> 
> 
> I had hoped that I would be able to go listen to the speakers before buying but living in a small town there are very limited opportunites other than big box stores. And after my CC experience I am not sure there is much to be gained by auditioning speakers in a poorly set-up room.
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the two sets is the more musical?( I know you said before that the x-series are very refined)
> 
> 
> ( I guess my question got answered in the time that it took me to type it...thanks Ron)



If you want to leverage the closeout price at SVS, I'd take it for the sub alone. The SBS speakers are flat and accurate, image well, with a nice soundstage...not much bass, they are designed to work with their sub. I've only heard the x-ls speakers in 2 channel with and without a sub. The put out an extremely wide soundstage, well beyond the width of the speaker placement, sound amazing with female vocals, are bassy for books, just a tad soft at the top of the midrange and highs. This gives it an extremely warm sound. I like this for music. I'm sure they are great for HT too. The x-sub is a great performer for it's size, but can't hold a candle to the PB10 or 12. Whichever way you go, you are not going to be unhappy.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Patriot12* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the story on the Polk sub woofers like the PSW10 or 12. They don't seem to mentioned here at all. Wouldn't you want to stay with the same manufacturer for your sub woofer as well?



the polk subs are OK (they make much better speakers), but you can get so much more sub for your dollar by going with one of the internet-direct brands like SVS or HSU. matching brands btwn speakers and your sub is not important. what is important is getting that sub to blend in with the rest of your system through careful calibration.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the polk subs are OK (they make much better speakers), but you can get so much more sub for your dollar by going with one of the internet-direct brands like SVS or HSU. matching brands btwn speakers and your sub is not important. what is important is getting that sub to blend in with the rest of your system through careful calibration.



I've never heard a Polk sub I've liked. The 404 & 505 are liked by Polkies, but they don't extend and tend to boom. The PSW1000 is said to be very musical. Skip the lesser models.


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron. I wasnt very impressed with the Monitor 50s either...sounded too nasally. I guess it is between the
> 
> 1. AV123 x-series 5.1 package; and
> 
> 2. SVS SBS-01 with either the PB10 ( on sale for silver or white - 799).
> 
> 
> I had hoped that I would be able to go listen to the speakers before buying but living in a small town there are very limited opportunites other than big box stores. And after my CC experience I am not sure there is much to be gained by auditioning speakers in a poorly set-up room.
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the two sets is the more musical?( I know you said before that the x-series are very refined)
> 
> 
> ( I guess my question got answered in the time that it took me to type it...thanks Ron)




I would say skip the X-Sub unless you need a small sub. A PB10 with the X-LS would be a good choice as well as the HSU VTF2-3 or better. Not that the X-Sub is not a good sub, just will not dig as deep as the SVS or HSU offerings. Though AV123 has the MFW15 coming out soon, which would be a good choice as well.


----------



## Ruhnie

Awesome thread going here, thanks for all of the input, it's helping to make my decision for me on my first HT system. I'm a long time lurker, and don't post much here, but this is my fav site to visit for all things AV, gives me enough knowledge to keep me dangerous I suppose










So, the wife has given me the go ahead to spend around $1,000 on a system. I already have a display and DVD player that I won't be replacing atm. I live in a duplex, and my living room is about 12' x 24' or so, but that's w/ the "attached" dining area in the back. I actually sit about 10' feet from the screen, so my listening area is more like 10' by 12' or so. Since I have a shared wall, I can't really have too much bass, or crank up this system too often, but I want something that will be fully capable when I purchase a house later this year. I can't get away from all of the amazing things I've been reading about the X-Series from AV123, so here's what I'm currently thinking. Any input is greatly appreciated!


Fronts: x-sls x 2

Center: x-cs

Rears: x-ls x 2

Sub: x-sub? or wait? (not overly concerned about a sub to start the system w/)

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR504


This puts me at just under $900 w/o a sub, and a bit over $1100 w/ one. I was going to go with x-ls bookshelves as my fronts, but I realized it would cost more to do that and get stands for them, compared to just getting the x-sls floorstanding speakers. Also, I wouldn't mind the extra fullness for 2ch music listening. I'm planning on wall-mounting my rears, already have the mounts. What do you fine people think? Thanks!


----------



## dbrowdy

Awesome awesome thread! This is exactly what I've been looking for and it took a while to find, lemme tell ya.







I read about the first 5 pages and the last 2 so please excuse me if this has been answered already.


From all the recommendations I've been reading and considering my budget I'm looking at getting either the $200 Velodyne set or the Polk set from Frys (2x pair of R150s for $100 and the CSi25 center for $60). I have not heard any real comparison of these two however. I will be listening to music on them more often than watching movies/playing video games so I'd want to lean more towards the one with less treble and more balance.


Also can the R150s be wall-mounted easily? I saw someone ask that but don't think I saw an answer. They seem kinda big for that.


The Polk PSW303 sub is going for $150 at Frys now also. How does this fella stack up against the infamous Bic sub? Is the Bic $100 better?


Lastly, I'm still not set on the receiver I'll use. I really want one that has the built-in setup routine. I'm pretty sure there's a few in the $300 price range...


Thx,

D


----------



## valuebuyer

Hi there,

Was wondering does any B&M shop has Velodyne CHT's on display? I was hoping to listen to them once before buying. Their site shows Circuitcity as a dealer, but I dont think they have CHTs.

Cheers


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Polk PSW303 sub is going for $150 at Frys now also. How does this fella stack up against the infamous Bic sub? Is the Bic $100 better?



I've only read one review of the PSW303, and it was not favorable, but that is an excellent price:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/1136.html 


The 3 faves in the budget subwoofer set at present are:


The HSU STF-1 at $249 +20:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html 


and


The X-sub at $199 + 40:
http://www.**********/products_categ...oofers&brand=57 


and


BIC H-100 at $240-260 on Fleabay


All good choices I think!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Was wondering does any B&M shop has Velodyne CHT's on display? I was hoping to listen to them once before buying. Their site shows Circuitcity as a dealer, but I dont think they have CHTs.
> 
> Cheers



AFIK, the CHTs are only available on closeout from the Velo site. The only place you're going to get current reviews are from the adoptees on the CHT thread in Speakers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Awesome thread going here, thanks for all of the input, it's helping to make my decision for me on my first HT system. I'm a long time lurker, and don't post much here, but this is my fav site to visit for all things AV, gives me enough knowledge to keep me dangerous I suppose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the wife has given me the go ahead to spend around $1,000 on a system. I already have a display and DVD player that I won't be replacing atm. I live in a duplex, and my living room is about 12' x 24' or so, but that's w/ the "attached" dining area in the back. I actually sit about 10' feet from the screen, so my listening area is more like 10' by 12' or so. Since I have a shared wall, I can't really have too much bass, or crank up this system too often, but I want something that will be fully capable when I purchase a house later this year. I can't get away from all of the amazing things I've been reading about the X-Series from AV123, so here's what I'm currently thinking. Any input is greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> Fronts: x-sls x 2
> 
> Center: x-cs
> 
> Rears: x-ls x 2
> 
> Sub: x-sub? or wait? (not overly concerned about a sub to start the system w/)
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR504
> 
> 
> This puts me at just under $900 w/o a sub, and a bit over $1100 w/ one. I was going to go with x-ls bookshelves as my fronts, but I realized it would cost more to do that and get stands for them, compared to just getting the x-sls floorstanding speakers. Also, I wouldn't mind the extra fullness for 2ch music listening. I'm planning on wall-mounting my rears, already have the mounts. What do you fine people think? Thanks!



Great system...get the sub anyway...just take it easy on your neighbors. The 504 will work fine, but your speakers will benefit from a more powerful receiver and really benefit from separate amplification. What I'm saying is that you can stay with these speakers for quite awhile and be rewarded by feeding them more power down the road. If you start feeling the itch to upgrade in a year or so, you might try that upgrade first and find you don't want new speakers. If you want to avoid a step in this process, get an AVR with pre-outs now. You can then hook an outboard amp into the chain whenever. You might consider an HK235, 240, 335 or 340 from HK Direct on ebay. For less than $300 (sometimes far less) you can score a refurb on one of their 24hr auctions posted daily, with 2 year warranty. It's HKs factory store and totally reputable. Just be patient and don't overspend.


Anyway, it's a great system...


----------



## magicpie9882

Well, I've made one purchase and am on my way to a couple more.


The Onkyo 504 receiver is in the mail, and should be arriving shortly.


I am pretty set on the Velodyne CHT FR speakers, since they seem like a great value for my price range. The only thing I'm a bit concerned about is the size/weight of these speakers. I know they are good, solidly built, etc., but I am going to need some hefty speaker stands to hold them up (unfortunately, I can't wall mount in my rented apartment). So, it looks like I'll be spending around $100 on the four stands I'll need. Are there any suggestions for a cheap, but quality stands? Alternatively, does anyone know of similar speakers that are smaller/lighter but in the same price range? The Velos are 7 lbs each.


Finally, I think I decided on going for the Dayton 10" for a sub. Unfortunately, I can't justify spending much more than that on a sub, and Parts Express has free shipping for the next month. I had a thought today that the 10" may even be too much for my apt and my neighbors. Will the 8" just be too weak? I have about 1400 cubic feet in my living room (which directly adjoins the kitchen, but I don't care about sound there). Keeping the price and output of the sub down is important to me now, since I know I will be able to upgrade at some point (to the Bic, perhaps) and don't want to waste too much cash on it at this point.


I know I'm a newbie here (and probably have shown it in some of these questions), but any and all help is appreciated.


P.S. Do people actually buy banana plugs to hook all their speaker wire up? I was planning to, but then realized how expensive they are!


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Echomalinois* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would say skip the X-Sub unless you need a small sub. A PB10 with the X-LS would be a good choice as well as the HSU VTF2-3 or better. Not that the X-Sub is not a good sub, just will not dig as deep as the SVS or HSU offerings. Though AV123 has the MFW15 coming out soon, which would be a good choice as well.



Thanks for the advice. I am indeed leaning towards the PB10...will check out the Hsu as well.


----------



## blobula

I placed an order for the Polk R150's. Per Fry's customer service it will be 2 weeks before they get any.


On a side note I believe someone mentioned that American had the Polk R150's for $49.99. They do, but they sell them individually rather than in pairs so the deal at Fry's is way better.


Later on I'll order another pair of R150's and a center. I have a Sony receiver which I'm sure if crap, but it will do until the new Onkyo 605 receiver comes out.


----------



## brianjen13

Any thoughts on a refurb Denon AVR686S? It has Auto EQ with included mic. Also has video upconversion. Basicly same price as Onkyo 504.

Brian


----------



## novice_01

Thanks for excellent thread, almost bought onkyo 790 htib. Instead after reading some posts I got onkyo 504, athena c1.2, two b1.2 and velodyne vx 10. So far I'm very happy with sound quality for the money (around 550$ for everything including cables). Used to have sony htib (around 3 year old now). Thanks again, great improvement.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've only read one review of the PSW303, and it was not favorable, but that is an excellent price:
> http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/1136.html
> 
> snip



Yikes, that doesn't sound very good at all. I guess a little extra goes a long way sometimes.


Okay on the receiver front, I am intrigued by the idea of using an HK since it has preamp outs and allows for easy upgradability later. I did some research and found the HK 335 and 240 to be close to what I want and at the top of my price range. Any thoughts on these units? They're kind of expensive (~$350-400 refurbished) and I'm not sure if I'd recognize the difference over a $160 Onkyo (I hope I would tho!)


Also, any noticeable difference between these two models? One is a year newer but a model-line lower than the other however they seem to have very similar bells/whistles.


Your input is greatly appreciated.


D


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> P.S. Do people actually buy banana plugs to hook all their speaker wire up? I was planning to, but then realized how expensive they are!



Parts express has some inexpensive banana plugs if you look around. I've used plenty of them. They're very convenient especially on the receiver end.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-460 
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-465


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yikes, that doesn't sound very good at all. I guess a little extra goes a long way sometimes.
> 
> 
> Okay on the receiver front, I am intrigued by the idea of using an HK since it has preamp outs and allows for easy upgradability later. I did some research and found the HK 335 and 240 to be close to what I want and at the top of my price range. Any thoughts on these units? They're kind of expensive (~$350-400 refurbished) and I'm not sure if I'd recognize the difference over a $160 Onkyo (I hope I would tho!)
> 
> 
> Also, any noticeable difference between these two models? One is a year newer but a model-line lower than the other however they seem to have very similar bells/whistles.
> 
> 
> Your input is greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> D


 http://cgi.*********/HK-AVR-340-7-1-...QQcmdZViewItem 


They usually have around 6-8 receivers per day up for auction...if you don't need HDMI switching they are a real bargain.


Oops...won't let me link...ebay...search...hk receivers...click on the first HK Direct auction...scroll down to receivers again...look at all the current auctions...check back daily...snag one cheap.


----------



## valuebuyer

Just a curious thought. There was some action on the SLS Q line Gold HTIB few weeks back when it was on sale at BestBuy. Some fellow forum members were claiming that SLS Q line gold was comparable to other higher end systems in the 1000 dollar range. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=SLS+q+line )

How would SLS Q line Gold HTIB compare to some of the 500-600 dollar setups being discussed here (4 Polk R150s with a matching center, Onkyo 504 and a subwoofer in 150-200 dollar range)?


----------



## magicpie9882




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Parts express has some inexpensive banana plugs if you look around. I've used plenty of them. They're very convenient especially on the receiver end.



Do I need enough plugs to hook up the wires to the receiver as well as the speakers (assume Velodyne CHT FR)? In other words, how many plugs do I need per speaker wire? Only 2, or 4?


Really showing my lack of knowledge here...


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Parts express has some inexpensive banana plugs if you look around. I've used plenty of them. They're very convenient especially on the receiver end.
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-460
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-465



But the only reason to use them is convenience (frequent plugging/unplugging, or hard to reach spots behind receiver or speakers), or because you think they look cool. There's no performance reason to get them, and if you don't do it right they can degrade performance with a loose connection - so if people don't mind hooking up bare wires, no need.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay on the receiver front, I am intrigued by the idea of using an HK since it has preamp outs and allows for easy upgradability later. I did some research and found the HK 335 and 240 to be close to what I want and at the top of my price range. Any thoughts on these units? They're kind of expensive (~$350-400 refurbished) and I'm not sure if I'd recognize the difference over a $160 Onkyo (I hope I would tho!)



try searching for the HK 235...i scored one from Harman direct for $260 in December 2005, so you should be able to do at least that well now.


going from the onkyo to HK, i noticed more power, a fuller, warmer sound, and enjoy a better feature set including independent bass management, on-screen display, pre-outs for separate amplification, etc. the HK weighs about 12lbs more than the onkyo and is built like a tank. great receiver, especially for


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a curious thought. There was some action on the SLS Q line Gold HTIB few weeks back when it was on sale at BestBuy. Some fellow forum members were claiming that SLS Q line gold was comparable to other higher end systems in the 1000 dollar range. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=SLS+q+line )
> 
> How would SLS Q line Gold HTIB compare to some of the 500-600 dollar setups being discussed here (4 Polk R150s with a matching center, Onkyo 504 and a subwoofer in 150-200 dollar range)?



The strength of this system lay in the speakers which received high praise. The sub was poor. The receiver was a rebadges entry level Sherwood with limited features, and the DVD had reliability issues. I don't recall the DVD rebadge. I was tempted to get one for a bedroom setup, but the weaknesses outweighed the positives for me. Still, there were lots of happy owners. It'll be interesting to see how the components stood up in a year or two!


----------



## jizaref1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the velo's seem to be a popular option around here, there's a long thread on them in the speaker forum. they seem to be a tough deal to beat.
> 
> 
> the best sub to pair with them would depend on your budget. again the Bic H-100 seems to be a popular choice for about $230, but there are several options. internet-direct brands usually offer the most bang for the buck.
> 
> 
> HDMI switching is a luxury on receivers right now, and you'll pay a premium for it. IMO, its better to buy a less expensive receiver and run your HDMI cables from the source directly to the display. use digital audio cables from your sources to the receiver for all the surround processing.



If you run HDMI from the source to the display, but toslink audio from source to the receiver, how does the source know which "output" to use for audio? Example: I am about to buy a receiver to use with a Sony XBR HDTV LCD and a PS3 and bluray player. How do you choose outs? Is it easier to plunk down the $$ for an HDMI switching receiver?


----------



## jerkin

Not sure how you can say the SLS receiver has limited features, OSD, auto calibration, and component upconversion, none of which the similar Onkyo has if I'm not mistaken. This was my first experience with a Sherwood receiver and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I have an Onkyo in my upstairs setup and though the sound quality is similar the Sherwood offers more bang for the buck. The sub was definitely the weak point but it's not bad, I thought it outperformed the one the 790 comes with that I installed in a buddies place a couple months back. I will upgrade that when the money is available. I haven't heard of any issues with the dvd player. It's just a cheapy so I put it in my 2 year olds room. It has run all day more than a few times in the last 6 months with no issues.


When I was shopping around for a htib I listened to about all of them and the SLS was up there with even the most expensive htib's. When Best Buy put them on sale back in Oct./Nov. it was a no-brainer. I've heard the entry level Polks and to my ears that's no comparison. Haven't heard the Velodynes yet to make a judgement. With one of the entry level component systems you would have a better sub but that's about it. But for the $300 Best Buy was selling these for you could buy a Bic and still only be at $550, which is tough to do with components. I guess it really doesn't matter now since they are gone and SLS wants $1100 for them.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jizaref1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you run HDMI from the source to the display, but toslink audio from source to the receiver, how does the source know which "output" to use for audio? Example: I am about to buy a receiver to use with a Sony XBR HDTV LCD and a PS3 and bluray player. How do you choose outs? Is it easier to plunk down the $$ for an HDMI switching receiver?



You will have switch inputs on the TV and the receiver. I and many others use a programmable remote to do this.


Your getting a nice TV. Its a good guess that this TV memorizes pic quality settings by input, my Mitsubishi does. If you use switching HDMI, 2 in 1 out (pass through or even active) the TV will not know which component is on the HDMI port so you cannot calibrate the best picture quality for each component and have it retained in TV memory. You will have to compromise on one source. Pic quality is too important to me to lose it for the sake of HDMI switching.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://cgi.*********/HK-AVR-340-7-1-...QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> 
> They usually have around 6-8 receivers per day up for auction...if you don't need HDMI switching they are a real bargain.
> 
> 
> Oops...won't let me link...ebay...search...hk receivers...click on the first HK Direct auction...scroll down to receivers again...look at all the current auctions...check back daily...snag one cheap.



Yep, I found these late last night! Great bargains, in theory. I've got a bunch on my watch list and I'm gonna see how much they go for.


I have heard too many mixed reviews about HDMI switching to be excited about it anymore, especially after what mrgribbles just said about the TV video settings. My brother advises me to spend the extra few hundred dollars on a better TV with more inputs and a good universal remote so I won't have to worry about it. I was cautious of this advice at first, but I've read a lot of horror stories about HDMI switching and it seems like it's best just to avoid it altogether.


Back to the HK, I am really interested in the 340 since the EZset/EQ seems to be a big step up from the EZset/+. I don't know if this is really true tho, and that's the ONLY extra feature that the 340 has that I'm interested in over something cheaper like the 240 or 335. Anyone have any experience with the HK EZset/+ vs EQ thing?


(Man what an awesome thread this has turned out to be. There seriously needs to be a whole noobie section so we don't have to plow through 13 pages of stuff but still, I'm not complaining!)


Thx,

D


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great system...get the sub anyway...just take it easy on your neighbors. The 504 will work fine, but your speakers will benefit from a more powerful receiver and really benefit from separate amplification. What I'm saying is that you can stay with these speakers for quite awhile and be rewarded by feeding them more power down the road. If you start feeling the itch to upgrade in a year or so, you might try that upgrade first and find you don't want new speakers. If you want to avoid a step in this process, get an AVR with pre-outs now. You can then hook an outboard amp into the chain whenever. You might consider an HK235, 240, 335 or 340 from HK Direct on ebay. For less than $300 (sometimes far less) you can score a refurb on one of their 24hr auctions posted daily, with 2 year warranty. It's HKs factory store and totally reputable. Just be patient and don't overspend.
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's a great system...



Ron, thanks for the feedback, it is much appreciated. I didn't realize that the 504 wouldn't necessarily be enough power for these speakers, I guess that means they really are good! I've had an HK before and liked it, so I will definitely take a look at that HK factory store and see what I can find. What's the warranty like on refurbs? Thanks!


----------



## dbrowdy

Full normal warranty, which is a huge plus for me!

Warranty 


BTW, I had trouble finding this seller. The name is "harmonaudio" even though all their sales say Harmon Direct on them. Now just be sure not to bid-war with me. :-D


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerkin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure how you can say the SLS receiver has limited features, OSD, auto calibration, and component upconversion, none of which the similar Onkyo has if I'm not mistaken. This was my first experience with a Sherwood receiver and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I have an Onkyo in my upstairs setup and though the sound quality is similar the Sherwood offers more bang for the buck. The sub was definitely the weak point but it's not bad, I thought it outperformed the one the 790 comes with that I installed in a buddies place a couple months back. I will upgrade that when the money is available. I haven't heard of any issues with the dvd player. It's just a cheapy so I put it in my 2 year olds room. It has run all day more than a few times in the last 6 months with no issues.
> 
> 
> When I was shopping around for a htib I listened to about all of them and the SLS was up there with even the most expensive htib's. When Best Buy put them on sale back in Oct./Nov. it was a no-brainer. I've heard the entry level Polks and to my ears that's no comparison. Haven't heard the Velodynes yet to make a judgement. With one of the entry level component systems you would have a better sub but that's about it. But for the $300 Best Buy was selling these for you could buy a Bic and still only be at $550, which is tough to do with components. I guess it really doesn't matter now since they are gone and SLS wants $1100 for them.



I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, just stating from my perspective why I didn't purchase one, as the PP asked for opinions.


Also, this is a moot point for now, as these are no longer available at BB, and are pretty pricey from SLS.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Full normal warranty, which is a huge plus for me!
> 
> Warranty
> 
> 
> BTW, I had trouble finding this seller. The name is "harmonaudio" even though all their sales say Harmon Direct on them. Now just be sure not to bid-war with me. :-D



Heh I'm keeping an eye on those auctions today to see what they go for. I'm going to go for a 240/340 I think. I'm an ebay noob, are these auctions reserve, or do they go to the highest bidder regardless? Seems like some really sweet deals can be had here for HK stuff.


Oh and what exactly does the EZset/EQ do?


----------



## Joey Cusack

Hey guys I want to get a nice home theater system. I'm going to brandsmart today to listen to the HTS790 by onkyo, but apparently HTIBs are not great sound quality and I should be making my own from different brand names for different parts such as receivers, speakers,center channels,and subwoofers.


I don't want to spend over 400.


I have never had a Surround sound or Home theater system in my life.


I like Bass for my music, but sound quality is also important.


Can you guys help me out here?


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Heh I'm keeping an eye on those auctions today to see what they go for. I'm going to go for a 240/340 I think. I'm an ebay noob, are these auctions reserve, or do they go to the highest bidder regardless? Seems like some really sweet deals can be had here for HK stuff.
> 
> 
> Oh and what exactly does the EZset/EQ do?



They seem to be NR auctions so they go to the highest bidder regardless of price. I am also going for the 240/340, leaning towards the 340 if I can get a deal.


So I'm not the person to really be asking about the EZset/EQ, but there's a good HK247 thread over in the receivers forum where someone detailed the differences between all the auto-setups. It seems the EZset/EQ (not the EZset/+) does an extra level of equalization and jibberjabber and floppityfloop that none of the others but the Denon do and it supposedly makes the bass much tighter and more responsive. Supposedly it's also much easier to use than the Denon version and works better. If it's not in that thread, poke around in there until you find it. Twas very informative.


D


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They seem to be NR auctions so they go to the highest bidder regardless of price. I am also going for the 240/340, leaning towards the 340 if I can get a deal.
> 
> 
> So I'm not the person to really be asking about the EZset/EQ, but there's a good HK247 thread over in the receivers forum where someone detailed the differences between all the auto-setups. It seems the EZset/EQ (not the EZset/+) does an extra level of equalization and jibberjabber and floppityfloop that none of the others but the Denon do and it supposedly makes the bass much tighter and more responsive. Supposedly it's also much easier to use than the Denon version and works better. If it's not in that thread, poke around in there until you find it. Twas very informative.
> 
> 
> D



Cool, thanks. I like floppityfloop


----------



## valuebuyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, just stating from my perspective why I didn't purchase one, as the PP asked for opinions.
> 
> 
> Also, this is a moot point for now, as these are no longer available at BB, and are pretty pricey from SLS.



Good points guys.

I guess the logic of the SLS system is still the same as most of the setups here.

1. Spend more to get great sounding speakers

2. Match it with a good receiver which your money can afford

3. Throw in a suitable sub (again money constraints apply)

4. Upgrade receiver/sub as your needs and money in the pocket grow!!


I guess SLS system got the accolades because it is based on the same soul as the systems discussed here. But as Pagash has said, its a moot point as they are no longer available. These good deals will pass you by so fast. You blink and they are gone!!! 


This begs a thought though.. should I wait and hope that SLS is again offered at 300 dollars.


----------



## Ron Temple

ruhnie - the 504 will drive these speakers without a problem. They are easy to drive. I used the Onk 520 from the 770 to drive my first Polk set. When I sold the 770, I moved to one of the HK235s off ebay. Immediately, noticed more detail and punch, the added features, BM and OSD, also were a real treat. The HK235 is a little tank, weighs 33lbs. Though rated at 50wpc, all channels driven, subjectively (and maybe objectively), it had more guts...nice upgrade in SQ. A few months later a friend offered me a little 2 channel Audiosource amp 80wpc. I plugged this into my fronts and they came alive. These were Polk R50s, the top of the bottom end of their lineup at the time and they sure got better...clarity, detail, soundstage, punch. I still use this amp bridged mono, 200wpc, on my center channel. I've upgraded my fronts to vintage Polk SDA 1Cs. These were $1800 a pair when sold in the 80s and if they were made today probably would go for 4-5gs. Rated 50-500wpc channel @ 6ohms, I needed a bit more than the HK or Audiosource could deliver, so I researched pro amps and vintage 2 channel amps that could be had for under $400. I found a Carver TFM 35, 2/250 @ 8ohms, 2/400wpc @ 4ohms. It's a match made in heaven. I'm still using the HK as a pre/pro to do all the audio processing and to drive my surrounds. While audiophile friends tell me to get a dedicated and expensive processor to take my system to the next level, I'm extremely happy.


My point is, a receiver with pre-outs can serve you through the upgrade path. Putting separate amps on well made entry level speakers improved the SQ enough that I kept them longer and was happy until I found my dream speakers for a song. Those x-series speakers will improve through a couple of upgrades if you think ahead with the receiver now.


I get carried away...sorry for the blog.


----------



## Joey Cusack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joey Cusack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys I want to get a nice home theater system. I'm going to brandsmart today to listen to the HTS790 by onkyo, but apparently HTIBs are not great sound quality and I should be making my own from different brand names for different parts such as receivers, speakers,center channels,and subwoofers.
> 
> 
> I don't want to spend over 400.
> 
> 
> I have never had a Surround sound or Home theater system in my life.
> 
> 
> I like Bass for my music, but sound quality is also important.
> 
> 
> Can you guys help me out here?



Just another thing to take into consideration is that I have a 12x12 bedroom. So I don't know how much I should need.


I just want to be satisfied. haha


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Hey guys, have you heard of YAMBEKA speakers, they got a whole 5.1 setup ging for 199.00 shipped. Are these things junk or what? That just seems to be to god to be true.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ruhnie - the 504 will drive these speakers without a problem. They are easy to drive. I used the Onk 520 from the 770 to drive my first Polk set. When I sold the 770, I moved to one of the HK235s off ebay. Immediately, noticed more detail and punch, the added features, BM and OSD, also were a real treat. The HK235 is a little tank, weighs 33lbs. Though rated at 50wpc, all channels driven, subjectively (and maybe objectively), it had more guts...nice upgrade in SQ. A few months later a friend offered me a little 2 channel Audiosource amp 80wpc. I plugged this into my fronts and they came alive. These were Polk R50s, the top of the bottom end of their lineup at the time and they sure got better...clarity, detail, soundstage, punch. I still use this amp bridged mono, 200wpc, on my center channel. I've upgraded my fronts to vintage Polk SDA 1Cs. These were $1800 a pair when sold in the 80s and if they were made today probably would go for 4-5gs. Rated 50-500wpc channel @ 6ohms, I needed a bit more than the HK or Audiosource could deliver, so I researched pro amps and vintage 2 channel amps that could be had for under $400. I found a Carver TFM 35, 2/250 @ 8ohms, 2/400wpc @ 4ohms. It's a match made in heaven. I'm still using the HK as a pre/pro to do all the audio processing and to drive my surrounds. While audiophile friends tell me to get a dedicated and expensive processor to take my system to the next level, I'm extremely happy.
> 
> 
> My point is, a receiver with pre-outs can serve you through the upgrade path. Putting separate amps on well made entry level speakers improved the SQ enough that I kept them longer and was happy until I found my dream speakers for a song. Those x-series speakers will improve through a couple of upgrades if you think ahead with the receiver now.
> 
> 
> I get carried away...sorry for the blog.



Heh np man, I really appreciate the insight







You've convinced me, I'm going with an HK now for sure. And it looks like the prices are pretty sweet too, I am going to attempt to score an AVR 340 for under $300. Wish me luck!


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, have you heard of YAMBEKA speakers, they got a whole 5.1 setup ging for 199.00 shipped. Are these things junk or what? That just seems to be to god to be true.



There's a lot of talk about them, but I really can't find a decent review. The review on this forum is comparing them to KLH speaks, so maybe 'nuff said!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=829805 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=1&pp=30 

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=87013


----------



## brianjen13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on a refurb Denon AVR686S? It has Auto EQ with included mic. Also has video upconversion. Basicly same price as Onkyo 504.
> 
> Brian




Sounds like no one has heard of it. I was $160 at ecost so I thought I try to compare to THe Onkyo 504.

Brian


----------



## dbrowdy

Well I couldn't resist! I picked up an HK AVR 340 (refurb but with full warranty) off ebay for $300 shipped. I'm very excited to have the first piece of my HT because it allows me to pick and choose my next pieces now.


I'm trying to pick my speakers now. By my calculations, I can get that Polk Audio set from Fry's for about $325 (before tax). However I was thinkin about getting the AV123 fronts and a sub to start and then getting a center and rears later. I hear that a good 2.1 system can be just as rewarding for HT while getting started. Of course that's a lot more expensive. My last thought was to get the velodyne set and a sub for about the same amount of money. Any thoughts?


Thx for all the input so far guy! Really helpful!


D


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I couldn't resist! I picked up an HK AVR 340 (refurb but with full warranty) off ebay for $300 shipped. I'm very excited to have the first piece of my HT because it allows me to pick and choose my next pieces now.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to pick my speakers now. By my calculations, I can get that Polk Audio set from Fry's for about $325 (before tax). However I was thinkin about getting the AV123 fronts and a sub to start and then getting a center and rears later. I hear that a good 2.1 system can be just as rewarding for HT while getting started. Of course that's a lot more expensive. My last thought was to get the velodyne set and a sub for about the same amount of money. Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Thx for all the input so far guy! Really helpful!
> 
> 
> D



Grats! Which one did you win, the auction that ended first or second? Hopefully I didn't bid on the same one, I went in for $250 on the second one. Looks like they both went for around $270, so either way that's an outstanding deal. Hopefully there will be more up soon


----------



## Ron Temple

$300 shipped sounds alot better than $550 retail...but anyone else looking at these auctions...be patient...set the price you are willing to spend based on past low bid auctions...look for the ones ending in odd times (like after 11:00PM)...snipe...don't raise the price...bid in the last minute. If you lose 10 auctions, you'll still get one at the low price you want.


$270 for a 340 is a very good deal...just seems like you might have gotten a little excited. Last year a friend of mine got a 635 for $340 shipped...be patient.


edit: not to iimpune your price...I paid $280 shipped for a 235...as I said, a great deal.


----------



## blobula

Does anyone have any experience with the Axiom lineup of bookshelf speakers? How do they sound? The price may be a little high for a budget HT. They have the M2 ($290), M3 ($330), and M22 $(470).


----------



## slubu

Very simple question that I sadly do not know the answer to...can I stack my receiver, dvd player and satellite box on top of my subwoofer? I'm trying to determine how to setup best my speaker placement.


Thanks for any input.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> $300 shipped sounds alot better than $550 retail...but anyone else looking at these auctions...be patient...set the price you are willing to spend based on past low bid auctions...look for the ones ending in odd times (like after 11:00PM)...snipe...don't raise the price...bid in the last minute. If you lose 10 auctions, you'll still get one at the low price you want.
> 
> 
> $270 for a 340 is a very good deal...just seems like you might have gotten a little excited. Last year a friend of mine got a 635 for $340 shipped...be patient.
> 
> 
> edit: not to iimpune your price...I paid $280 shipped for a 235...as I said, a great deal.



I'm sure I could have gotten a better price with some patience, though how much better I'm not sure. I really wanted to just get this first purchase out of the way so I can start pulling the trigger on all my other purchases.


Also, as someone who obsesses over researching all "big" purchases and finding the best value, I'm perfectly satisfied with the 340 for $300. From everything I've read about it and others, it's gonna be extremely hard to find anything new (and I consider it new with the warranty) with the features I want at that price point. In fact, I don't think it's possible.


Like I said, I'm more than satisfied, I'm rather psyched. :-D


Now to pick a speaker set. TSS-1100 for $500? Polk Audio Set for $320? Velodyne Frontrow set with a sub ($200 + $129-250 for the sub)? AV123 x-ls fronts and a cheap sub ($360)? Athena set (forget the pricing)? I'm guessing they're all gonna sound the same except maybe the x-ls 2.1 setup.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm guessing they're all gonna sound the same except maybe the x-ls 2.1 setup.



Better keep researching if you think that ...


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very simple question that I sadly do not know the answer to...can I stack my receiver, dvd player and satellite box on top of my subwoofer? I'm trying to determine how to setup best my speaker placement.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input.



I'm not the audiophile that many other people here are, however I can say that putting your DVD player with sensitive moving parts on top of a box that tends to vibrate the house is probably not the best idea. In fact stacking anything on it seems like you'd be inviting distaster by having stuff vibrate off the top if nothing else.


Just my $0.02...


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Better keep researching if you think that ...



Okay I meant they're all gonna sound the same *to me*.


Still though, without being able to hear some of these, I really have no basis for comparison. My understanding is that the AV123 x-ls speakers are a step up from the others and will sound better, especially if I save up to complete the set in the near future. All the others seem to be in the same price range as eachother and at the low pricepoint they'll all have subjective strongpoints and weakpoints but are probably a step down overall. If that's NOT the case then I'll just get the cheaper ones and be satisfied.


I have a feeling the best bet will be the Polk Audio ones since the price at Fry's is deceptively low. Then again, the velodynes seem to be pretty popular and they're certainly marked down atm... *sigh* I'm going in circles so I'm probably just gonna pick something and I'm sure I'll be happy with it for a little while.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now to pick a speaker set. TSS-1100 for $500? Polk Audio Set for $320? Velodyne Frontrow set with a sub ($200 + $129-250 for the sub)? AV123 x-ls fronts and a cheap sub ($360)? Athena set (forget the pricing)? I'm guessing they're all gonna sound the same except maybe the x-ls 2.1 setup.



x-series = excellent SQ

Polks = extremely good for the money


Both the Infinity set and the CHT sets will be fine for HT, but will lack the midrange and midbass of the 2 above, but are easily mountable. Good luck.


Again, you did fine on the AVR...


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> x-series = excellent SQ
> 
> Polks = extremely good for the money
> 
> 
> Both the Infinity set and the CHT sets will be fine for HT, but will lack the midrange and midbass of the 2 above, but are easily mountable. Good luck.
> 
> 
> Again, you did fine on the AVR...



Hey, no worries. I know you're trying to help everyone out here not just me. All your advice so far has been extremely valuable, and it's appreciated. The advice above on the speakers is a great example.


Thx,

D


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay I meant they're all gonna sound the same *to me*.



No, I really don't think they would. Not on the first day, and not after a few months of listening to different things. The differences aren't subtle, at least not all of the differences - they're really different flavors. (Though it's most noticeable if you can switch back and forth between the two, for sure,which isn't going to happen.)


And certainly if you put all your money in the front speakers, you'll get audibly better quality speakers, something you'd hear right away and appreciate even more over time.


BTW, the bottom line on the Velodynes is - if low price and small size are critical, a decent choice. If you have some flexibility on that, look elsewhere.


I know you're probably going to buy speakers without being able to listen to them, but I do think you could get some idea of what to expect by reading up a bit more. Especially Ron's comments.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, I really don't think they would. Not on the first day, and not after a few months of listening to different things. The differences aren't subtle, at least not all of the differences - they're really different flavors.
> 
> 
> And certainly if you put all your money in the front speakers, you'll get audibly better quality speakers, something you'd hear right away and appreciate even more over time.



Well said...my take on the x-ls speakers is that you'll have to spend considerably more or look used to get signifcant or even marginal improvement. I feel the same way about the Mordaunt-Short 902s that are actually a bit cheaper from accessories4less (I have the ones with prettier cabinets







, a previous rev), but AFIK they aren't offered as a package.


If you stay on this forum or others over time you are going to meet local enthusiasts. The ones that have been in this hobby (addiction) longer might have very nice midfi or high end equipment for you to listen to. You'll be surprised how well your modest budget gear stands up. If you're like me, you'll have to think long and hard about any upgrades...that's part of the fun.


So have some...


----------



## gilham1

This thread so far has been a huge help so kudos to those who have helped make it so.


I am at the point of upgrading a few things and need some advice.


I plan to get the onkyo 605 when it comes out and once i do the system i have now wont work.(well thats what i tell the wife







) I was going to go with the r5 klipsch series which still seems to be a very good setup, but it also is 1900 so i was wanting to go cheaper so that being said i now am looking alot cheaper.

I remember years ago going into CC and listening to some polk and fell in love with there sound, not to mention I and many of my friends ran there mids and highs for car audio,anyways so here is a setup i was looking at and want some direction ...Thanks in advance.


AVR: Onkyo 605

dvd: Toshiba hd-a2

tv: Sharp 37" 43u lcd

This stuff is already bought or on its way.


4x r150

1x CSi3

2x mon50

1x PSW10

This is where i need a little advice.I plan tomake some upgrades down the road but this is what im looking to go with for a 7.1 system,will using the r150 as the sides and rear be ok?My room right now is very small i am about 5ft for listning or viewing point,but i will be buying a house with in the year and want to make sure i can be ok once i move this stuff to a larger room. i will prob. never stop upgrading but i want to start somewhere and this seem more in my budget then 1900, plus i wont have to wait till next year to upgrade what i have now.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread so far has been a huge help so kudos to those who have helped make it so.
> 
> 
> I am at the point of upgrading a few things and need some advice.
> 
> 
> I plan to get the onkyo 605 when it comes out and once i do the system i have now wont work.(well thats what i tell the wife
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I was going to go with the r5 klipsch series which still seems to be a very good setup, but it also is 1900 so i was wanting to go cheaper so that being said i now am looking alot cheaper.
> 
> I remember years ago going into CC and listening to some polk and fell in love with there sound, not to mention I and many of my friends ran there mids and highs for car audio,anyways so here is a setup i was looking at and want some direction ...Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> AVR: Onkyo 605
> 
> dvd: Toshiba hd-a2
> 
> tv: Sharp 37" 43u lcd
> 
> This stuff is already bought or on its way.
> 
> 
> 4x r150
> 
> 1x CSi3
> 
> 2x mon50
> 
> 1x PSW10
> 
> This is where i need a little advice.I plan tomake some upgrades down the road but this is what im looking to go with for a 7.1 system,will using the r150 as the sides and rear be ok?My room right now is very small i am about 5ft for listning or viewing point,but i will be buying a house with in the year and want to make sure i can be ok once i move this stuff to a larger room. i will prob. never stop upgrading but i want to start somewhere and this seem more in my budget then 1900, plus i wont have to wait till next year to upgrade what i have now.



First, you don't have the room for 7.1 so go 5.1 for now...get the side surrounds later. I'd move up to M60s and drop down to a CS1 (it matches, the CSi3 is RTi and brighter than your fronts) for surrounds the R150s will work fine. They give that Polk sub away with the speakers for a reason...it sucks...get the Bic. I don't know what that will do with your budget, but Tweeters sells the Monitor 60s as the Euro branded T90Es (or something like it) for $350 a pair all the time. They are the sweet spot of the current Monitor lineup. If you can find some mint Monitor 7s for ~ $120-150, you will thank me. They are 20 years old at least, but sound better...much better...than the current Monitors. I see them all the time on Craigslist.


----------



## brianjen13

I purchased the Csi25 and a set of R150s from frys for a total of $125 w/ shipping. They showed up today. The construction of the speakers is very good. I was pleasently suprised by the speakers. Thanks to those who suggested these. They are bigger then I thought. Have to figure out how to get the huge center to go on my slim Samsung 46in DLP. People get get these. For the price- awesome. Now I am getting ready to order the the Bic H-100. Ya, I decided to break the bank and get to H-100(No regrets). Now I am trying to decide on the reciever. My question about recievers is what really is the difference between the Onkyo 504, Pioneer 516, Yamaha 5930, and the Panny 55? I know very little about recievers. Any help would be great.

Brian


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First, you don't have the room for 7.1 so go 5.1 for now...get the side surrounds later. I'd move up to M60s and drop down to a CS1 (it matches, the CSi3 is RTi and brighter than your fronts) for surrounds the R150s will work fine. They give that Polk sub away with the speakers for a reason...it sucks...get the Bic. I don't know what that will do with your budget, but Tweeters sells the Monitor 60s as the Euro branded T90Es (or something like it) for $350 a pair all the time. They are the sweet spot of the current Monitor lineup. If you can find some mint Monitor 7s for ~ $120-150, you will thank me. They are 20 years old at least, but sound better...much better...than the current Monitors. I see them all the time on Craigslist.



Thanks. Its funny you said the mon 60 because the first plan i had was with the mon 60, the bic was alsowas on my list but moved it out when i thought , what the heck the polk sub cant be that bad..But i guess that why i should have stuck with my first instinct..Thanks for the suggetion of going 5.1 instead its been a a big run around in my head which way to go, i thought that 7.1 would be to much but figured i do it any ways but saving the 50 will allow me to add it to the sub cost.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Also if i dont go with the bic for a sub will the x-sub or the stf-1 be just as good?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. Its funny you said the mon 60 because the first plan i had was with the mon 60, the bic was alsowas on my list but moved it out when i thought , what the heck the polk sub cant be that bad..But i guess that why i should have stuck with my first instinct..Thanks for the suggetion of going 5.1 instead its been a a big run around in my head which way to go, i thought that 7.1 would be to much but figured i do it any ways but saving the 50 will allow me to add it to the sub cost.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to respond. Also if i dont go with the bic for a sub will the x-sub or the stf-1 be just as good?


 www.tweeter.com...unfortunately , though I saw the T90s offered last week, I don't see them today. But keep checking, they go up for $350/Pair quite often (hope the haven't been discontinued). You might also check ebay...


----------



## gilham1

Ron,

Thanks for the reply, it looks as if i didnt edit in time..lol. I thought after i posted asking that I was being a little lazy and googled tweeter. thanks a million for the help. i dont know if you seen it or not but anything on my ? on the subs?


----------



## gilham1

Anyone looking for a csi3 center speaker there is one on ebay for 24.99 plus 30 shipping.I dont know much about ebay but wow thats a pretty good price.


----------



## flags

My question about recievers is what really is the difference between the Onkyo 504, Pioneer 516, Yamaha 5930, and the Panny 55? I know very little about recievers. Any help would be great.

Brian[/quote]


The Onkyo 504 would be the one to purchase. Onkyo has an excellent reputation and makes quality products.


----------



## blobula

So when matching the POLK CS1 are the Monitor 30's or 40's the best to go with so the center blends in with the L/R mains? I was reading a review on the CS1 at Cnet and they sugest either of those.


Also, I've noticed in a couple places that the Cherry CS1 is about $40 - $50 cheaper than the black CS1. Is this just due to the popularity of the black CS1?


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question about recievers is what really is the difference between the Onkyo 504, Pioneer 516, Yamaha 5930, and the Panny 55? I know very little about recievers. Any help would be great.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> The Onkyo 504 would be the one to purchase. Onkyo has an excellent reputation and makes quality products.



Watch out for this guy. I've only been on this board for a few days to a week, but flags clearly has a pro-Onkyo agenda and likely works for them.


Not to say the Onkyo isn't good (I wouldn't know) but just take his "recommendations" with a grain of salt.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watch out for this guy. I've only been on this board for a few days to a week, but flags clearly has a pro-Onkyo agenda and likely works for them.
> 
> 
> Not to say the Onkyo isn't good (I wouldn't know) but just take his "recommendations" with a grain of salt.



first of all, onkyo makes great products.


with that said, everyone starting out should understand that flags is the resident spammer/onkyo 790 HTIB parrot (those who have been around awhile already do), so keep that in mind when reading his posts. he has attempted to derail this thread in the past, and was given a vacation by the mods for it.


let's hope that is over with....back on topic.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I purchased the Csi25 and a set of R150s from frys for a total of $125 w/ shipping. They showed up today. The construction of the speakers is very good. I was pleasently suprised by the speakers. Thanks to those who suggested these. They are bigger then I thought. Have to figure out how to get the huge center to go on my slim Samsung 46in DLP. People get get these. For the price- awesome. Now I am getting ready to order the the Bic H-100. Ya, I decided to break the bank and get to H-100(No regrets). Now I am trying to decide on the reciever. My question about recievers is what really is the difference between the Onkyo 504, Pioneer 516, Yamaha 5930, and the Panny 55? I know very little about recievers. Any help would be great.
> 
> Brian



I'd love to hear your thought on your speaker once you get them all set up!


----------



## SaveMeJebus

I ordered a pair a few days ago that has yet to process. Emailed them to find out what's up. Looks like I may not be seeing my speakers anytime soon. Copying the reply here in case anyone is planning to order soon and needs their speakers in a timely manner. Might have to look into the SVS pair if this drags on like I fear it may.



> Quote:
> Thank you for your inquiry. Your order is in our system and your card will
> 
> not be charged until your order ships. Our X-series products have
> 
> experienced an explosion in demand over the last 3 months. To counter this,
> 
> we have been gearing up our factory in Cali, Colombia to help us meet this
> 
> demand. There has been a little unexpected lag time in Cali getting up to
> 
> normal production levels. *With this in mind, the X-series product will be
> 
> trickling in throughout the months of April, May and June and there will
> 
> be some delays in fulfillment.*
> 
> 
> Please realize that these are hand built and hand finished loudspeakers. You
> 
> simply cannot buy product like this at these prices anywhere else. It takes
> 
> time to produce a product like this, and the wait is usually forgotten about
> 
> once you see and hear the speakers. Thank you for your patience.
> 
> 
> Kindest regards,
> 
> 
> Mike Garner
> 
> Customer Support Manager
> 
> av123/Perpetual Technologies, LLC


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So when matching the POLK CS1 are the Monitor 30's or 40's the best to go with so the center blends in with the L/R mains? I was reading a review on the CS1 at Cnet and they sugest either of those.
> 
> 
> Also, I've noticed in a couple places that the Cherry CS1 is about $40 - $50 cheaper than the black CS1. Is this just due to the popularity of the black CS1?



what places have you seen the cherry cs1 for 40-50 cheaper..thanks in advance

I dont know many places to look at that are agood place to by from..thanks again.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what places have you seen the cherry cs1 for 40-50 cheaper..thanks in advance
> 
> I dont know many places to look at that are agood place to by from..thanks again.




Frys.


They have the Polk CS1 Cherry Center Speaker listed for $159, but the Polk CS1 Black Center Speaker is listed for $199.


Going back and looking more closely the cherry CS1 says "Monitor Center Channel" while the black one says "Center Channel Loudspeaker". Looks like the "monitor" series is older...


----------



## Ron Temple

If you're going Polk...


The CSi25, CSR, and CSM are the same speaker with different cosmetics and timbre match the R series speakers.


The CS1 and 2 match the monitor line, but work very well with the R series. Not a total timbre match, but you might prefer the beefier center...has a bit more bass response.


The CSi3 and 5 match the RTi line. The 5 is the best all round center that Polk makes, it's huge, but it kicks ass. The 3 is much easier to fit in your system and is excellent for dialog. The CSis are brighter than the other lines, but are better made and have better components. If the price is right, you might as well score one. ($25.00 is a no brainer, if the guy is reputable, buy it - check it out first though).


The Polk lineup all have tonal similarities...as you move up the lines, you get better workmanship and components, better imaging, detail and soundstage, but none are dogs and you can mix lines with good results. For example, I used a CSi3 with my R50 fronts...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to respond. Also if i dont go with the bic for a sub will the x-sub or the stf-1 be just as good?



Depending on your room size...


The Hsu and x-sub are 8" subs that do 30hz and up very well and dip down into the high 20's in most rooms. Said to be very musical...I haven't heard either model. Have heard the Bic and it's a 12" sub that's very capable and clean. It will probably move a bit more air in medium sized rooms (2000cube) and doesn't rolloff as fast in the 20's. Any of these subs will give you quality bass. Take the one that's available in your color at your price.


----------



## SaveMeJebus

this is a dumb question, but I'm allowed one for the day since it's Friday.


Do I need to have any type of special cable to connect the Bic H-100 subwoofer to my receiver (Onkyo 604)? My mind is fried today.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> this is a dumb question, but I'm allowed one for the day since it's Friday.
> 
> 
> Do I need to have any type of special cable to connect the Bic H-100 subwoofer to my receiver (Onkyo 604)? My mind is fried today.



The best solution is tri-raided platinum/silver/gold cable infused with nanites with radioactive shielding...costs about $1000 a foot...or you can go to RS and pickup one of their Gold series that costs around $20...whichever one makes the most sense to you


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The best solution is tri-raided platinum/silver/gold cable infused with nanites with radioactive shielding...costs about $1000 a foot...or you can go to RS and pickup one of their Gold series that costs around $20...whichever one makes the most sense to you




definitely need the radioactive shielding. Don't want the "boys" exposed to anything when I'm fiddling around behind the receiver.


----------



## buzzy_

Unless I need it right away - I've started to put in my order for cables at monoprice.com at the same time I put in my order for hardware. The cables always get here before the gear does.


http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...word=subwoofer


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The best solution is tri-raided platinum/silver/gold cable infused with nanites with radioactive shielding...costs about $1000 a foot...or you can go to RS and pickup one of their Gold series that costs around $20...whichever one makes the most sense to you



Walmart has good cables and they less expensive than Radio Shack.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Walmart has good cables and they less expensive than Radio Shack.



Lol I love this guy


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered a pair a few days ago that has yet to process. Emailed them to find out what's up. Looks like I may not be seeing my speakers anytime soon. Copying the reply here in case anyone is planning to order soon and needs their speakers in a timely manner. Might have to look into the SVS pair if this drags on like I fear it may.



Well that's really disappointing, arg. Was just about to place my order here in the next few days from them. I hope the wait won't be too long, or I may have to go another route


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well that's really disappointing, arg. Was just about to place my order here in the next few days from them. I hope the wait won't be too long, or I may have to go another route



I put another email into them re the April/May/June comment as to whether that meant I could be waiting around for two months for the speakers. No reply yet (not surprised), but I'll follow up here with whatever I hear from them.


I'd hate to have a new plasma, receiver, dvd player, and subwoofer all sitting at home and be waiting for two months for my two speakers!


----------



## buttondown77

First off, this is a great thread! I read all 15 pages in the last day or so










I'm totally new the world of HT and would love some guidance or perhaps reassurance on my decisions.


I live in a pretty small apt, ~700 sq ft with a living area (which also extends into the kitchen) of about 400 sq ft.


I just purchased a 40" LCD (Samsung LNT4065F), which I'd like to compliment with a good 2.1 or--most likely, a 3.1 setup.


Reciever: probably the Onkyo 605 or HK 247 when they come out


Speakers: Many seem to recommend the AV123 X-LS's, but I recently saw a very good deal on a pair or Polk RTi6s for about $250/pr. In your opinion how do they stack up?


Center channel: Will the CS1 match well with either of the 2 speakers above? If not what do you recommend?


Sub: Bic H100


I mainly watch broadcast TV, sports, sitcoms, etc... sharing about 40% of the time with movies and music.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buttondown77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off, this is a great thread! I read all 15 pages in the last day or so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm totally new the world of HT and would love some guidance or perhaps reassurance on my decisions.
> 
> 
> I live in a pretty small apt, ~700 sq ft with a living area (which also extends into the kitchen) of about 400 sq ft.
> 
> 
> I just purchased a 40" LCD (Samsung LNT4065F), which I'd like to compliment with a good 2.1 or--most likely, a 3.1 setup.
> 
> 
> Reciever: probably the Onkyo 605 or HK 247 when they come out
> 
> 
> Speakers: Many seem to recommend the AV123 X-LS's, but I recently saw a very good deal on a pair or Polk RTi6s for about $250/pr. In your opinion how do they stack up?
> 
> 
> Center channel: Will the CS1 match well with either of the 2 speakers above? If not what do you recommend?
> 
> 
> Sub: Bic H100
> 
> 
> I mainly watch broadcast TV, sports, sitcoms, etc... sharing about 40% of the time with movies and music.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



FYI the AVR 247 is available now, I saw it at Fry's today actually. You can buy one from Amazon for $499 right now. Also, I'd recommend looking through this thread on the 247 if you haven't already, there seems to be a large number of people reporting problems w/ it. I didn't make it through the entire thing, but it sounds like HK is on top of it, but you may want to check first.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Depending on your room size...
> 
> 
> The Hsu and x-sub are 8" subs that do 30hz and up very well and dip down into the high 20's in most rooms. Said to be very musical...I haven't heard either model. Have heard the Bic and it's a 12" sub that's very capable and clean. It will probably move a bit more air in medium sized rooms (2000cube) and doesn't rolloff as fast in the 20's. Any of these subs will give you quality bass. Take the one that's available in your color at your price.



Is the Bic only available through the ebay distributor? I was poking around the Acoustech website, and if that site is a reflection of the company, I'm worried about the quality. Has anyone bought this sub or know of any customer service issues with them? It seems like a great deal, but I'm a bit hesitant to buy from a company I don't know much about.


Also, I saw that Fry's has the Polk PSW12 on clearance for $169. Is it like the other Polk subs, and pretty much crap? Compared to the Bic H100, X-Sub, and HSU STF-1, is it in the same performance range? Seems almost like too good of a deal for a 12" sub to be true.


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Frys.
> 
> 
> They have the Polk CS1 Cherry Center Speaker listed for $159, but the Polk CS1 Black Center Speaker is listed for $199.
> 
> 
> Going back and looking more closely the cherry CS1 says "Monitor Center Channel" while the black one says "Center Channel Loudspeaker". Looks like the "monitor" series is older...



Thanks for responding.I was looking on fry yester day but was looking at the black but i am now thinking of going cherry so thanks..


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the Bic only available through the ebay distributor? I was poking around the Acoustech website, and if that site is a reflection of the company, I'm worried about the quality. Has anyone bought this sub or know of any customer service issues with them? It seems like a great deal, but I'm a bit hesitant to buy from a company I don't know much about.
> 
> 
> Also, I saw that Fry's has the Polk PSW12 on clearance for $169. Is it like the other Polk subs, and pretty much crap? Compared to the Bic H100, X-Sub, and HSU STF-1, is it in the same performance range? Seems almost like too good of a deal for a 12" sub to be true.



Go to Frys and compare the Polk subs to the Velo subs. Take into consideration that it's a horrible setup and it's tough to get help there. Both may sound bad. The Velos are actually pretty good and I think you'll be able to notice. The Bic is better than the entry level VX and VRP Velo models and compares favorably with the DPS10 ( I owned one). AFAIK the ebay guy "is the guy". I have heard of a few bad amps, that BIC took care of.


If you want to stay below $200 for your sub, look used or go with the Velo VX10. It won't go below 30hz, but it's a nice sounding sub.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I saw that Fry's has the Polk PSW12 on clearance for $169. Is it like the other Polk subs, and pretty much crap? Compared to the Bic H100, X-Sub, and HSU STF-1, is it in the same performance range? Seems almost like too good of a deal for a 12" sub to be true.



you'll almost always do better in the bang for the buck department with an internet-direct brand subwoofer when put up against a comparably-priced B&M sub. any of the subs you mentioned will more than likely best that polk in sound quality, output, and maybe even extension.


the only subs i would consider at my local CC would be a Velodyne. like ron mentioned, the VX-10 sounds nice (i've heard it), but forget about deep-down sub-30Hz extension. the Bic will get you into the mid-20's corner loaded. the STF-1 and X-sub may not dig quite as deep, but will sound great (maybe a bit better than the Bic) from ~27Hz on up. they are all good budget performers, but i think the Bic is the best compromise, especially if HT is the first and foremost priority.


----------



## Ruhnie

Thanks for the replies Ron and G-star, it's much appreciated. After much contemplation, I think I have decided to forego getting a sub for now. My budget is pretty maxed out if I get the x-series setup plus AVR 340. Combine that w/ the fact that I will likely never really get to hear what a sub is capable of in my current duplex, and I don't think I'll me missing much by waiting. This way, since I'm planning on buying a house later this year, I'll know the exact dimensions of my room and can save some cash for the proper sub(s) and be able to crank them up


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buttondown77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Many seem to recommend the AV123 X-LS's, but I recently saw a very good deal on a pair or Polk RTi6s for about $250/pr. In your opinion how do they stack up?



That's a great price for the 6's. Both the 4s and 6s are respected speakers by Polk fans and sound totally different than the x-series. Polks are livelier speakers than x-series. The Rti's are HT speakers first that are excellent with most music. The x-series are music first, that are excellent in HT applications, but might sound a bit laid back for movies. Your tastes may vary, go and listen to the Polks and decide if you like them. If you're not sure, do the risk free x trial.



> Quote:
> Center channel: Will the CS1 match well with either of the 2 speakers above? If not what do you recommend?



If you go with the RTis, move up to the CSi3. It would be the perfect front soundstage.



> Quote:
> Sub: Bic H100



Fine...


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies Ron and G-star, it's much appreciated. After much contemplation, I think I have decided to forego getting a sub for now. My budget is pretty maxed out if I get the x-series setup plus AVR 340. Combine that w/ the fact that I will likely never really get to hear what a sub is capable of in my current duplex, and I don't think I'll me missing much by waiting. This way, since I'm planning on buying a house later this year, I'll know the exact dimensions of my room and can save some cash for the proper sub(s) and be able to crank them up



What is 199.99 more for a good av123 sub. you would be surprised how much a sub adds to your listening experience. You might want to look at getting the front 3 speakers and a sub and the adding your rears later. I personally dont like to listen to anything without a sub anymore.

-Rich


----------



## studdad

Quick question: Last night I was watching a show on TV and the TV and sound turned off. I turned the TV back on, and the sound came on with it. This happened a couple more times after that. Here is my setup:


Yammy 661 receiver

Sony 36sx955 HDTV (CRT, but excellent pq)

Directv HD DVR (HR20-100)

Oppo 981 DVD (was off at the time)


I have the Oppo and the DVR connected to the receiver via HDMI. The receiver then connects to the TV via HDMI (TV only has one HDMI input). I am waiting for new speakers to be delivered, so the speakers I have connected to the receiver are pretty crappy (old HTIB speakers) but they work (8ohms). The show I was watching was from a recording on the DVR. The DVR did not turn off, in fact it seemed to be still feeding the receiver. I found this odd, as the TV power is hooked into the DVR so I can turn off the DVR and TV with a single remote click. I have all of this hooked into a surge protector, which is hooked into the wall (a single outlet). The other outlet is used for the cheapy powered sub. Do you think it was too much power being drawn from that outlet (if so, then I will buy another power strip and connect the receiver and the sub to it, and leave the rest on the existing strip), or is there something else coming into play here?


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is 199.99 more for a good av123 sub. you would be surprised how much a sub adds to your listening experience. You might want to look at getting the front 3 speakers and a sub and the adding your rears later. I personally dont like to listen to anything without a sub anymore.
> 
> -Rich



Well I don't have a sub now, so I won't really be missing it. I find what I miss the most with my 2ch setup is the immersion of surround. From what I'm gathering, the x-sub isn't really enough to power my room. I'd rather not spend the money on something I'm going to replace w/ a bigger sub in a year or less anyway. I may wait for that new AV123 sub that's in the works now, it sounds like a beast.


----------



## mrgribbles

I think what you're experiencing is the joy and wonder of HDMI. You're source - the dvr - is checking the TV for HDCP, I'm pretty sure at this time it doesn't care about the receiver so when the signal/handshake from the TV disappears the dvr stops the signal until it can reestablish the handshake. That may explain the lack of audio when the TV is off.


If your dvr stayed on, chances are the power strip is OK but I would be reluctant to power any of these devices off of one another. I don't know your dvr but chances are it may not like the power requirements of your TV, so it shut off the outlet (its got internal circuit breaker protection for the outlet) but the dvr itself stayed on. Try running everything to the power strip discretely and come up with an alternate way to turn things off together like a programmable remote or search in the DVR forum to see if you can program macros into your existing dvr remote. I can do that on my Motorola DVR remote.


----------



## studdad

mrgribbles....thanks for the info. Do you think I should worry about getting another power strip as well, just to reduce the powerflow to that one socket, or should the socket also have no problems powering three devices at a time, i.e. receiver, tv, dvr?


----------



## mrgribbles

You're probably OK with the one strip but anytime you can share the load its better. These are inexpensive.


----------



## buzzy_

It's not much, but it's a waste of money and space unless the TV is an exceptionally high wattage item. Try one strip first.


What you describe (sound going out) isn't power related. Might be HDMI, or could just be the antenna / signal.


But it isn't a good idea to power your gear by it being plugged into other gear, unless it's a reallly low wattage item (like a CD player) that you feel you need to switch on and off together.


You can find out the wattage by reading the label on the back of the gear, or maybe by looking at the mfr's site. Especially check the TV and the DVR.


----------



## cer

I had decided on the Velodyne CHT Front Rows but it now appears that they are gone for good







. What do you think the current best option for comparable bookshelfs and center is now. Compaarable in quality and in the $200-$300 range for 4 speakers and a center.


I do plan to match the speakers with the bic h-100 and the Onkyo 504.


Thank you


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had decided on the Velodyne CHT Front Rows but it now appears that they are gone for good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . What do you think the current best option for comparable bookshelfs and center is now. Compaarable in quality and in the $200-$300 range for 4 speakers and a center.
> 
> 
> I do plan to match the speakers with the bic h-100 and the Onkyo 504.
> 
> 
> Thank you



I still see the CHTs on their website. They are selling them as pairs I think...so you could get 3 pairs for about 207 and have one to spare.


----------



## buttondown77

Ruhnie and Ron, thanks for the responses.


I listened to the RTi6s and decided to go with them. I'm also definitely getting the H100 sub.


After reviewing my budget, I'd like to get a receiver for


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buttondown77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruhnie and Ron, thanks for the responses.
> 
> 
> I listened to the RTi6s and decided to go with them. I'm also definitely getting the H100 sub.
> 
> 
> After reviewing my budget, I'd like to get a receiver for


----------



## Bruce Wayne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still see the CHTs on their website. They are selling them as pairs I think...so you could get 3 pairs for about 207 and have one to spare.






Are these pretty good speakers, thats awful cheap. I know they are white but a little pigment in a can will fix that problem


----------



## dbrowdy

Well after all my deliberations, I decided to break the bank and spend a bit more on some killer speakers. I'll be getting the SVSound SBS-01 System which is on sale right now (in white or silver). It's definitely more than I was going to spend all at once but I have read nothing but (extremely) good reviews about these guys. They're supposed to be an amazing value for the price and they're even on sale now so it's a hard deal to pass up.


I'll let you know how they sound with my HK340 in a week or two when I get everything in and setup. I'm sure my neighbors will be able to tell you all about them too. :-D


D


EDIT: Oh and gratz on your pickup Ruhnie. What speakers are you running the HK with again?


----------



## slubu

I need this exactly, but think it is severely overpriced at 50/each. Does anybody know of something similar to this that I can find cheaper?

http://www.standsandmounts.com/inde...ROD&ProdID=2011


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buttondown77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruhnie and Ron, thanks for the responses.
> 
> 
> I listened to the RTi6s and decided to go with them. I'm also definitely getting the H100 sub.
> 
> 
> After reviewing my budget, I'd like to get a receiver for


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Depending on how you feel about getting a factory refurbished product that comes w/ full warranty, I'd also consider the HK AVR stuff from their ebay store. I just scored an AVR 340 for $260 shipped over the weekend, which seems like a really nice deal. I monitored alot of the auctions last week, and the 235/240 AVRs were consistently going for $150-$200. Worth a look IMO, but if you don't care about the lack of pre-outs, it does sound like the 504 is an excellent choice. Fry's had it over the weekend for $199 in-store.



Nice score...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (in white or silver)



Which color? I know you're going to be happy...better get to know your neighbors


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well after all my deliberations, I decided to break the bank and spend a bit more on some killer speakers. I'll be getting the SVSound SBS-01 System which is on sale right now (in white or silver). It's definitely more than I was going to spend all at once but I have read nothing but (extremely) good reviews about these guys. They're supposed to be an amazing value for the price and they're even on sale now so it's a hard deal to pass up.
> 
> 
> I'll let you know how they sound with my HK340 in a week or two when I get everything in and setup. I'm sure my neighbors will be able to tell you all about them too. :-D
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> EDIT: Oh and gratz on your pickup Ruhnie. What speakers are you running the HK with again?



Hey that looks like a great choice too for speakers, hope you enjoy. I ordered a smattering of the av123 x-series line, sans subwoofer for now. Hopefully the lack of bass won't be too much of an annoyance in the short term


----------



## jizaref1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had decided on the Velodyne CHT Front Rows but it now appears that they are gone for good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . What do you think the current best option for comparable bookshelfs and center is now. Compaarable in quality and in the $200-$300 range for 4 speakers and a center.
> 
> 
> I do plan to match the speakers with the bic h-100 and the Onkyo 504.
> 
> 
> Thank you



I'm probably going very similar (though considering a new Onkyo receiver), plus the H100. How are the speakers (forget the sub) in the polk sets for this setup, either the RM6750, the RM6880 or the Rm10set?


Jeff


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jizaref1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm probably going very similar (though considering a new Onkyo receiver), plus the H100. How are the speakers (forget the sub) in the polk sets for this setup, either the RM6750, the RM6880 or the Rm10set?
> 
> 
> Jeff



I think you should compare the RM speakers with the R150s or R15s and decide which you prefer. The satelites are very good for what they are, but lack the midrange of the bookshelves...might have a bit more detail to the highs.


----------



## jizaref1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you should compare the RM speakers with the R150s or R15s and decide which you prefer. The satelites are very good for what they are, but lack the midrange of the bookshelves...might have a bit more detail to the highs.



I want something easily mounted on the wall, but within my budget which is rapidly expanding. I also might be able to get a deal at circuit city where I am buying a bunch of other stuff in a special package So if you are considering just these, what do you think? Are the cheapest (RM6750) at least good?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jizaref1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want something easily mounted on the wall, but within my budget which is rapidly expanding. I also might be able to get a deal at circuit city where I am buying a bunch of other stuff in a special package So if you are considering just these, what do you think? Are the cheapest (RM6750) at least good?



I've never heard the sats for more than a minute so I can't tell you about any sound quality difference. Polks generally will sound better at each incremental price level. So go get a listen on...


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruhnie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey that looks like a great choice too for speakers, hope you enjoy. I ordered a smattering of the av123 x-series line, sans subwoofer for now. Hopefully the lack of bass won't be too much of an annoyance in the short term



I was looking at doing the same thing, starting with a couple x-series and then filling it out as I came across the cash. Then I heard the x-series was backordered and I saw this deal and I figured what the heck. :-D


And for the record I decided on silver. I have a nice steel Boltz TV stand and CD/DVD rack and I think they'll go well together.


D


----------



## cer

G Star and Ron,


Can you give me your opinions on a comparison between the Velodyne Front Rows and the Polk R150's?


Thank you in advance


----------



## studdad

Hi again:


Still waiting on my speakers, so can't give any feedback yet. I do have a Q though. I will be using my system primarily for TV viewing, with a little bit of music. I have been waiting for my speakers, and wondering if they came with good wire, or if I needed to get better wire. I contacted the company and they suggested the following:


NeoTech NES-5001 Speaker Cable w/ banana termination


These cables are fairly expensive. Do I need these, or are there comparable alternatives. The speakers are the AV123 x-ls bookshelf and center speakers, as well as the x-sub. Does the sub get the same wire as the others? My receiver is the Yamaha 661 if that makes any difference.


Ron, if you are out there, maybe you can answer this for me.


thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> G Star and Ron,
> 
> 
> Can you give me your opinions on a comparison between the Velodyne Front Rows and the Polk R150's?
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance



CHTs and bookshelves are apples and oranges, if you look back a page or two, you'll see my opinion, not about the CHTs but sats in general. If you can handle stands or mounts, bookshelves always trump satelites.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi again:
> 
> 
> 
> NeoTech NES-5001 Speaker Cable w/ banana termination



Probably a sponser...though I do recommend picking bananas from Parts Express, just for ease of connection to the receiver at least

www.bluejeanscables.com (I think ?) has fairly inexpensive speaker wire and cables that are just fine. Personally, I use Home Depot 12 & 14g speaker wire without any complaints. The wire arguments and IC cable arguments from those pros and cons get heated. I don't want to go there.


Get a Bluejeans sub cable or go to Radio Shack for their Gold Series...work fine.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> G Star and Ron,
> 
> 
> Can you give me your opinions on a comparison between the Velodyne Front Rows and the Polk R150's?
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance



i can't say much more than ron already has. i haven't heard the velodyne's in person, but at a similar pricepoint, you'll almost always get a fuller sound from booshelf-sized speakers with larger mid-range drivers.


if size isn't a big issue, i would pick a bookshelf speaker over sats. that isn't to say a satellite system properly integrated with a good sub won't sound great...it is just less forgiving when it comes time for speaker balance/setup. for a budget system, it really comes down to $$$ and preference.


----------



## oofie810

Hey guys, I finally decided that I'll buy an A/V receiver and some speakers instead of buying a HTIB. I am on a $400 budget for the receiver and speaker system right now and I have narrowed my receiver choices into 3:

HK AVR 146 

Pioneer 

Yamaha 


I am on a tight budget, so buying the HK will be pushing it. I might end up with some Yamaha 5.1 speaker system like this for the meantime.


I'll be using this in a small room with a PS3 and Blu-ray movies. Anyone else can recommend some good "budget" receivers that will be around 200-300?


----------



## Jasherrr

Man I need some help. I have a 14 x22 home theater room. I was debating/hand wringing over whether or not to buy the Epson Powerlite 1080P projector, Sony Pearl, or the Panasonic PT-AE1000U. The $1k rebate and $3800 price at costco ($3k after tax and shipping) was too good to pass up - so I went with the Panny.


I almost bought the Onkyo 907 HTIB until I stumbled on this thread - G-Star..you definitely have been dropping some knowledge. If I pass on the Onkyo 907, I was considering some combo like this, help-guidance-feedback is much appreciated. I want to stay under $1k total if I can.


Receiver - Onkyo 674 or 604. Is HDMI switching that big of a deal between these two?

Subwoofer - BIC 100, HSU, figure I should budget about 250-350 here, any thoughts?

Speakers - Orb Audio looks decent, but my room may be too big. I need a simple 7.1 or 5.1 configuration, wall mount, need some direction here.


Lastly - should I even consider a painted screen for a 1080P projector? If not, what is the best $400 or so 100-106" screen I can buy


Thanks for your help people.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Receiver - Onkyo 674 or 604. Is HDMI switching that big of a deal between these two?



only if your projector has a single HDMI input, and you have multiple HDMI video sources.



> Quote:
> Subwoofer - BIC 100, HSU, figure I should budget about 250-350 here, any thoughts?



the Bic is probably the best bang for the buck around $225. from $350 on up, you're getting into world-class sub range, and you might benefit from stretching a bit for an HSU or SVS. the SVS PB-10 (in silver or white) was on sale recently, and could be had for close to $400 shipped. if that deal is still available, it would be very hard to pass up....unreal performance for that kind of $$$.



> Quote:
> Speakers - Orb Audio looks decent, but my room may be too big. I need a simple 7.1 or 5.1 configuration, wall mount, need some direction here



that's a decent sized room, i would consider bookshelf speakers if i were you. take a look at the polk R150's, athena audition series, or maybe the 5.0 packages from SVS or HSU. i believe the highly touted AV123 x-ls series is on backorder right now.



> Quote:
> Lastly - should I even consider a painted screen for a 1080P projector? If not, what is the best $400 or so 100-106" screen I can buy



sorry, don't know much about screens...i'm a plasma guy.


----------



## mrgribbles

Nice size room. Really great video Options, the Panny, is a great projector, so I've heard. Now what about the audio?


Since it sure looks like you're going to put some effort into quality I highly recommend you put some time into building a system that suits the room environment, your audio goals and especially your ear. I would agree with your assessment of the S907 system. The speakers are a bit small in the bass driver. Matched, but small.


I place speaker position and directivity (dispersion) almost of equal importance to speaker performance. "Great" speakers might sound flat or dead in a room that is acoustically absorbed by furniture, carpeting, wall treatments, etc. In a more reflective room with bare floors, etc. the speakers may come off as bright and in many instances harsh. What's worse is when the speakers aren't matched. You'll get separation instead of fullness or lack of seamless immersion in the surround experience. Your seating choices will also affect the type of speakers you should select. Could be that dipole or monopole speakers may work best? In my case, the sweet spot is about 3 ft wide, you move off the spot and you can really hear a difference. Very directional. Since my sweetheart's on one side of the couch (usually) and I'm on the other, we both have to compromise. Well, I do, the TV speakers work fine for her!


Here's a good article on dispersion from Paradigm: http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/...dispersion.php 


Many speaker manufacturers have similar articles, as do the Ezines. The AVIA Guide to Home Theater is a good reference


This may not be the least expensive route but I'd hook up with a local audio shop that will let you try out some equipment. There's a lot to speaker designs and implementation. You'll get some good recommendations in this forum on speakers and in many cases its based on experience and success for them, but I'd take those recommendations to the audio shop and try them out.


For a receiver, I'd ask you to wait a bit. New receivers with HDMI 1.3 are due out shortly but no one seems to know exactly when, maybe a month. Mid - May has been cited. These new receivers will allow you the most versatility in getting the new Hi Def audio formats. You ARE going to want these. There are methods available with todays technology (I get the formats via 5.1 analog) to achieve this but more and more componentry is heading toward HDMI 1.3. Sorry to ask you to wait, but perhaps you'll thank me for it. One of the new Onkyo 605's has my name on it, if it ever gets released.


Good luck with your choices.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably a sponser...though I do recommend picking bananas from Parts Express, just for ease of connection to the receiver at least
> 
> www.bluejeanscables.com (I think ?) has fairly inexpensive speaker wire and cables that are just fine. Personally, I use Home Depot 12 & 14g speaker wire without any complaints. The wire arguments and IC cable arguments from those pros and cons get heated. I don't want to go there.



Well, I'd just point out 2 things to people:


- What Ron decided to get for himself was regular wire. If it's good enough for Ron, it's good enough for everyone else in this thread.


- There's no question at all that any money you spend on cables beyond the cost of regular wire would be better spent on pretty much anything else - speakers, receiver, etc. - if you want it to make your system sound better.


Remember that what you're buying isn't bettter sound, it's how the wires look, and convenience if they are pre-terminated (aka, have connectors attached already). Which is fine, as long as you know that's what you're buying.


At this level of system and in an average room, you're not going to hear any difference. _If_ there's any benefit at all to cables, it's for people with very good hearing (ie, under age 25-30), listening to a near-reference system, in a near-ideal room.


And again, a reminder - banana plugs are also for convenience (hard to get to spaces behind a receiver or some mounted speakers) or fun, not at all required. Just be sure to allow for the extra space needed for them.


By the way, if for any reason people are looking for black speaker wire, try a car audio shop or the car audio section of a big store, or check online. Something like this: Stinger 14 gauge black wire at Car Domain . They have other colors too.


P.S. I'd suggest that this not become another one of those useless, AVS Forum trademark threads that rambles on and repeats the same stuff over and over. It stops being usable pretty fast, as it starts to get 50 pages long. Most other forums have figured that out. Scan the thread, or at least the last few pages. Don't expect people to repost stuff that's already been posted in the last couple pages - subwoofer cables, alternatives to the Velodyne - it's all in here.


Even better, of course, would be to collect some of the info into the OP. Or, better yet, if there was a way for us all to do that, like on Fatwallet.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jizaref1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm probably going very similar (though considering a new Onkyo receiver), plus the H100. How are the speakers (forget the sub) in the polk sets for this setup, either the RM6750, the RM6880 or the Rm10set?
> 
> 
> Jeff



Jeff,


Did you check out the extended warranty for your TV from the Forum deals? If I recall you were looking at a very expensive 3 year extension from CC. BTW good to see you here on the HTIB alternatives thread. The system CC was trying to sell you sounded like a massive rip-off.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are these pretty good speakers, thats awful cheap. I know they are white but a little pigment in a can will fix that problem



Bruce,


I have not heard them myself. I am new to all of this as well. I was just pointing out that the CHTs were still available. Ron Temple and G-Star are the resident experts and they have already chimed in about the CHTs.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oofie810* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I finally decided that I'll buy an A/V receiver and some speakers instead of buying a HTIB. I am on a $400 budget for the receiver and speaker system right now and I have narrowed my receiver choices into 3:
> 
> HK AVR 146
> 
> Pioneer
> 
> Yamaha
> 
> 
> I am on a tight budget, so buying the HK will be pushing it. I might end up with some Yamaha 5.1 speaker system like this for the meantime.
> 
> 
> I'll be using this in a small room with a PS3 and Blu-ray movies. Anyone else can recommend some good "budget" receivers that will be around 200-300?



Go listen to the 790. It's the king of HTIB - Hail To The King


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Go listen to the 790. It's the king of HTIB - Hail To The King




This guy cracks me up!

-Rich


----------



## Jasherrr

MrGribbles - sage advice - much appreciated. I am now leaning towards the Onkyo 505, I see that it is available currently for about 299


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> only if your projector has a single HDMI input, and you have multiple HDMI video sources.
> 
> *2 inputs on the Panny so I am good there. Does the 1.3 HDMi make a big difference long term do you think? More to the point, is it worth a few extra hundred dollars? If so I think I can get my hands on the Onkyo 505 for about 299.*
> 
> 
> the Bic is probably the best bang for the buck around $225. from $350 on up, you're getting into world-class sub range, and you might benefit from stretching a bit for an HSU or SVS. the SVS PB-10 (in silver or white) was on sale recently, and could be had for close to $400 shipped. if that deal is still available, it would be very hard to pass up....unreal performance for that kind of $$$.
> 
> *I hear you on this. SVS has a bookshelf speaker sub combo in cream white for 799, but that throws me over budget. One question, I have some old (like 10 years ago old) good quality PSB speakers. I have a center, 2 rear, and two front speakers. Should I hump those speakers with a new subwoofer and new receiver then wait to upgrade the speakers down the way?*
> 
> 
> that's a decent sized room, i would consider bookshelf speakers if i were you. take a look at the polk R150's, athena audition series, or maybe the 5.0 packages from SVS or HSU. i believe the highly touted AV123 x-ls series is on backorder right now.
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, don't know much about screens...i'm a plasma guy.



*
Thanks Anyway!*


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This guy cracks me up!
> 
> -Rich



uh...yeah. he just doesn't seem to comprehend the fact that some people would rather put their own system together, rather than "rock out with a 1000 WATT!!!!!!!!! HTIB.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> 2 inputs on the Panny so I am good there. Does the 1.3 HDMi make a big difference long term do you think? More to the point, is it worth a few extra hundred dollars? If so I think I can get my hands on the Onkyo 505 for about 299.



personally, i would wait until the HDMI dust settles and prices come down, especially if you have enough HDMI slots to start with. you can always hook up your 3rd source via component in a pinch.



> Quote:
> I hear you on this. SVS has a bookshelf speaker sub combo in cream white for 799, but that throws me over budget. One question, I have some old (like 10 years ago old) good quality PSB speakers. I have a center, 2 rear, and two front speakers. Should I hump those speakers with a new subwoofer and new receiver then wait to upgrade the speakers down the way?



i would certainly give it a shot...you've got nothing to lose. just make sure the receiver and speakers match in terms of impedance. if they are decent speakers, you'll have yourself a nice little HT with a modern receiver like the onkyo 505 and a good sub. if you're not buying speakers now, i would strongly recommend looking at the $400 sub class, like the SVS PB-10 or HSU VTF-2.3. a great sub makes all the difference in budget HT.


----------



## studdad

Ron and Buzzy: Thanks for the info. I know the 12 gauge wire is a heavier wire than the 14. Any advantage to getting the 12 over the 14, or no discernable difference?


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> personally, i would wait until the HDMI dust settles and prices come down, especially if you have enough HDMI slots to start with. you can always hook up your 3rd source via component in a pinch.
> 
> 
> 
> i would certainly give it a shot...you've got nothing to lose. just make sure the receiver and speakers match in terms of impedance. if they are decent speakers, you'll have yourself a nice little HT with a modern receiver like the onkyo 505 and a good sub. if you're not buying speakers now, i would strongly recommend looking at the $400 sub class, like the SVS PB-10 or HSU VTF-2.3. a great sub makes all the difference in budget HT.


*OK - Sold on the subwoofer - I just purchased the VTF-1 Subwoofer from HSU for 399 - throwing caution to the wind.


That leaves me with my receiver issue - I can get the Onkyo 505 shipped for 280, or I could go some other route. If I wanted to stay in the 300 range is the Onkyo 505 the best I can do? Specs say 75w, is that enough to rock the house with this sub and some decent speakers? Thanks again for your help!*


----------



## dbrowdy

I personally don't like Onkyo mainly because it's still Sony and I'm not a big fan of paying more for less. I went with a Harmon Kardon AVR-340 refurb (that still has a FULL warranty) off eBay (direct from the HK factory). The main advantage in my sight is the fact that it's got pre-amp outs so you can upgrade to a better amp later and not have to change your AVR. The one I got also has HDMI switching tho I won't be using it. I paid $300 shipped which is on the higher side for eBay...someone else got one a few days later for $260. You can get the 2xx series for even cheaper if you want.


Also, for that price I'm assuming you got a powered sub so I doubt you have to worry about your receiver power in that case. The HK's are supposedly conservatively rated (wattage) so a 65w HK receiver will "Rock out" with that "1000w" Onkyo flags is pushing. :-D


D


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am now leaning towards the Onkyo 505, I see that it is available currently for about 299



I think the wait for the new model receivers is coming to an end. Onkyo finally announced on the 605.


See it here: http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/txsr605.html 


Still no word on the actual in store date but we should see that soon. I know this is killing you, I'm 100% impulse, and when I want to move on something I NEED to move on something. However, although I think you'll be fine with any choice you make in this area Onkyo, HK, Yamaha, etc, in a couple of months you'll be wanting a 2008 model. Sorry to be a fly in the ointment.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron and Buzzy: Thanks for the info. I know the 12 gauge wire is a heavier wire than the 14. Any advantage to getting the 12 over the 14, or no discernable difference?



Generally, the longer the run, the thicker the wire. I'm backwards, I have a 40 & 50' run for my surrounds with 14g and 8' runs on my fronts and center with 12g. Can I tell the difference...no. Will I replace the wire when I move the rig into my living room...yes. buzzy_ is right it's doubtful that most of us will hear audible differences above decent 16g wire. Though there are those who have been in this hobby for years, spending $$$ on sources, amps, pre-amps and speakers that swear there are profound audible differences using braided silver, copper, gold, platimun and I assume superconductor if they can get their hands on it. I may give something a try down the road (if someone hooks me into a try before buy deal), but until then I'm keeping it simple.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron and Buzzy: Thanks for the info. I know the 12 gauge wire is a heavier wire than the 14. Any advantage to getting the 12 over the 14, or no discernable difference?



Unless the run is over 80 feet anything thicker than 16 gauge wire is a waste of $$$


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Generally, the longer the run, the thicker the wire. I'm backwards, I have a 40 & 50' run for my surrounds with 14g and 8' runs on my fronts and center with 12g. Can I tell the difference...no. Will I replace the wire when I move the rig into my living room...yes. buzzy_ is right it's doubtful that most of us will hear audible differences above decent 16g wire. Though there are those who have been in this hobby for years, spending $$$ on sources, amps, pre-amps and speakers that swear there are profound audible differences using braided silver, copper, gold, platimun and I assume superconductor if they can get their hands on it. I may give something a try down the road (if someone hooks me into a try before buy deal), but until then I'm keeping it simple.



You're all right on target. In the days before transistors, we all had half inch thick speaker wire and we swore we could tell the difference. BS was easier then.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I personally don't like Onkyo mainly because it's still Sony and I'm not a big fan of paying more for less. I went with a Harmon Kardon AVR-340 refurb (that still has a FULL warranty) off eBay (direct from the HK factory). The main advantage in my sight is the fact that it's got pre-amp outs so you can upgrade to a better amp later and not have to change your AVR. The one I got also has HDMI switching tho I won't be using it. I paid $300 shipped which is on the higher side for eBay...someone else got one a few days later for $260. You can get the 2xx series for even cheaper if you want.
> 
> 
> Also, for that price I'm assuming you got a powered sub so I doubt you have to worry about your receiver power in that case. The HK's are supposedly conservatively rated (wattage) so a 65w HK receiver will "Rock out" with that "1000w" Onkyo flags is pushing. :-D
> 
> 
> D



If you check out the reviews and sales figures you will find the 790 is the best bang for the buck. It is the King of HTIB - Hail to the king baby!


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you check out the reviews and sales figures you will find the 790 is the best bang for the buck. It is the King of HTIB - Hail to the king baby!



That's fine, it may very well be the best HTIB. However THIS THREAD is the HTIB ALTERNATIVE thread. There's no place in here for the Onkyo HTIB however good or bad it may be. Please give it a rest.


Oh and please don't send me any more offensive PM's full of personal insults just because I disagree with you in a public forum. Grow up, my friend.


Thx,

D


----------



## Jasherrr

I hear you, but my issue is I need something to run the old system, preferably that has a couple HDMI inputs so I dont have to retrofit my system once one of these money receivers come out (either the Onkyo 605 or others this summer) Its a pickle, no doubt. The good news is that I have the Panny, an old PSB 5.0 system, and the $400 HSU sub to start with. So what do I do about my receiver issue if I NEED something?


Thanks for your help people.


----------



## Jasherrr

Any issue with going with a refurbished model?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any issue with going with a refurbished model?



i owned a brand new onkyo receiver and a refurb'd H/K...no issues with either. i prefere the H/K sound and featureset...more power, warmer fuller sound out of the same speakers, but the onk was nice and capable as well. buying refurbished is a great way to get more receiver than you can actually afford.


the HDMI thing sucks...if it were me i'd buy a solid $250 receiver and wait a few years until the dust settles and prices come down to dive into a nicer unit with full HDMI connectivity. YMMV.


----------



## Jasherrr

Ok, I am done. Just bought the Onkyo 505 for $270 shipped, figure I can always ebay or craigslist later when the time comes to upgrade. G-star and everyone else, thanks for your help.


Last question - if anyone has any opinions on the "Paint the screen" vs. "Buy this $400 100-106" screen" please let me know.


All in all I think i did pretty good with everyone's help - $3k for 1080p panny, $420 for the HSU sub, $270 for the Onkyo receiver, squeeze some extra life out of my existing PSB's, maybe paint the screen for $150 and call it a day.


Jay


----------



## mrgribbles

"the HDMI thing sucks...." Right on brother.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i owned a brand new onkyo receiver and a refurb'd H/K...no issues with either. i prefere the H/K sound and featureset...more power, warmer fuller sound out of the same speakers, but the onk was nice and capable as well. buying refurbished is a great way to get more receiver than you can actually afford.
> 
> 
> the HDMI thing sucks...if it were me i'd buy a solid $250 receiver and wait a few years until the dust settles and prices come down to dive into a nicer unit with full HDMI connectivity. YMMV.



Does anyone know if the Marantz zr6001sp is any good? Its available for 399 (from a suggested retail of almost 1200). I know its a bit more than some of the receivers people talk about here . I am having a hard time finding out much about this receiver...the amp/receiver forums dont seem to have much about this and the only review I saw was a CNET review which seems to focus more on the not so great remote speaker system over electric wires that the receiver supports (DAVed or something).


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, I am done. Just bought the Onkyo 505 for $270 shipped, figure I can always ebay or craigslist later when the time comes to upgrade. G-star and everyone else, thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> Last question - if anyone has any opinions on the "Paint the screen" vs. "Buy this $400 100-106" screen" please let me know.
> 
> 
> All in all I think i did pretty good with everyone's help - $3k for 1080p panny, $420 for the HSU sub, $270 for the Onkyo receiver, squeeze some extra life out of my existing PSB's, maybe paint the screen for $150 and call it a day.
> 
> 
> Jay



You can get an 106" Elite High Contrast Grey screen for $399 + shipping from projector.com. I'm not sure if that brand(Elite) is any good or not. If you want a matte white screen I think that might be a little more. If you could go a couple hundred more you could go with Carada. I've heard nothing but good about them.


Let us know how the receiver turns out.


----------



## studdad

Thanks again Ron


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the Marantz zr6001sp is any good? Its available for 399 (from a suggested retail of almost 1200). I know its a bit more than some of the receivers people talk about here . I am having a hard time finding out much about this receiver...the amp/receiver forums dont seem to have much about this and the only review I saw was a CNET review which seems to focus more on the not so great remote speaker system over electric wires that the receiver supports (DAVed or something).



Marantz makes great stuff. A friend has an older 8300 that he got for ~ $700. The 6xxx series is right in their sweetspot. If the warranty is right, it's a no brainer. Warm, but detailed sound with real power, great DACs.


----------



## Ron Temple

In the short time since I've joined this thread several of you have decided or purchased systems. I hope you all take the time to post once everything is setup and tell us your feelings. Pics would be nice too.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the short time since I've joined this thread several of you have decided or purchased systems. I hope you all take the time to post once everything is setup and tell us your feelings. Pics would be nice too.



My receiver arrives tomorrow and my speakers should ship at the end of this week. I'll definitely be posting about it...and I think Ron is going to be invited to movie night at my house too since he lives so close and has been so helpful. Then he can give firsthand advice on the SVS system too. :-D


D


----------



## Jasherrr

I was just reading a different thread about the Carada - all good feedback it seems - thanks for the input.


I will most definitely post my stuff once it gets delivered and setup by mid next week. I think I am most excited about the Sub!


Jay


----------



## studdad

Ron:


Yep, I will be posting as soon as the speakers arrive. Love my system so far, but can't comment much until I get the new speakers (have the old HTIB speakers hooked up to it now, and though they are terrible tiny speakers, everything is already much clearer and deeper/room filling). There is another thread in the Speaker forum (sorry, dont have the link, but it is something like "should I purchase x-ls or rockets") where the owner wrote in today....looks like my speakers should be coming soon, as they have started shipping.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the short time since I've joined this thread several of you have decided or purchased systems. I hope you all take the time to post once everything is setup and tell us your feelings. Pics would be nice too.



I most definitely will, this thread has helped me immensely. My receiver comes in this week, but unfortunately my x-series are on backorder. So it may be awhile


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> buzzy_ is right it's doubtful that most of us will hear audible differences above decent 16g wire.



I'd just follow the table , and maybe go a little fatter. I'll confess I use 14 or 12, even though it says 16 is OK. Especially allow a little extra if you're doing in-wall, because you don't know what speakers might be on it down the road.


The thing people forget - try to avoid long wire runs wherever possible! Shorter is better, if you can manage it. Get your speakers placed right - that's really much more important - but keep the wires as short as reasonable for where they need to go.


Or at least, try to avoid having to worry about what happens if your wire runs go over 50'. Don't leave an extra 20' coiled up behind the speaker just in case, at least once you're sure the speakers are where they are going to be long term.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd just follow the table , and maybe go a little fatter. I'll confess I use 14 or 12, even though it says 16 is OK. Especially allow a little extra if you're doing in-wall, because you don't know what speakers might be on it down the road.
> 
> 
> The thing people forget - try to avoid long wire runs wherever possible! Shorter is better, if you can manage it. Get your speakers placed right - that's really much more important - but keep the wires as short as reasonable for where they need to go.
> 
> 
> Or at least, try to avoid having to worry about what happens if your wire runs go over 50'. Don't leave an extra 20' coiled up behind the speaker just in case, at least once you're sure the speakers are where they are going to be long term.



I think Cruthfeld knows more about what size wire to use. Check out this link for the correct info.

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-...kers_wire.html


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think Cruthfeld knows more about what size wire to use. Check out this link for the correct info.
> 
> http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-...kers_wire.html



here's a tip...advice from someone trying to sell you something isn't always the gold standard. crutchfield also tries to sell 6ft HDMI cables for $150










16AWG will work, but there's nothing wrong with 14 or even 12AWG. for the minimal investment, it may be better to go with heavier gauge wire for long runs, if for nothing else than piece of mind.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Or at least, try to avoid having to worry about what happens if your wire runs go over 50'. Don't leave an extra 20' coiled up behind the speaker just in case, at least once you're sure the speakers are where they are going to be long term.



I'm one of the guilty coil-leavers... of course, it's tough to find cable _just_ the right length (in my case, 42') unless you buy it cut-to-length and pay the extra $$$. I went with a 50' cable 12AWG cable. The extra 8 feet is in a coil behind the subwoofer.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here's a tip...advice from someone trying to sell you something isn't always the gold standard. crutchfield also tries to sell 6ft HDMI cables for $150
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16AWG will work, but there's nothing wrong with 14 or even 12AWG. for the minimal investment, it may be better to go with heavier gauge wire for long runs, if for nothing else than piece of mind.



I stand corrected.


----------



## Jasherrr

Man - this is one sticky site. Am I the only one that feels like I am getting knowledge dropped on him left and right or what?


Now that I have my gear together, I am trying to figure out if I can install this bad boy myself or if i need to go the Circuit City/Firedog or BB/Magnolia or Myer EMco $1k installation package route (I am in Northern Virginia). I am probably at risk of posting this in the wrong thread, but what would I typically need a pro's help with and what could/should a fairly handy dude be able to pull off on his own?

As I see it, I need to do the follwoing in my 14x23 room that has an HVAC room attached where my components will go in an already built custom cabinet that I can access from HVAC room to mess around with wires, then close when not adjusting so it looks like an in wall cabinet in the HT room:


* Mount Panny Front Projector and fish hdmi cable and power through ceiling to HVAC room where I have power and my components in a custom wall cabinet that opens into theater room

* Mount 106" screen in front of room (or just punt this purchase for now and paint it)

* Somehow someway run speaker wires (under carpet maybe to save cash?) from 5 speakers to HVAC room where components are

* Program a yet to be purchased universal remote (any suggestions here?)

* Somehow fish my cable to HVAC room (this may need a pro now that I think about it)

* Connect the following to the Onkyo 505: HD DVR (has HDMI), the speakers, Upconvert DVD (HDMI)


If I have learned one thing since yesterday with G-Star and everyone's help, it is stretch to buy quality, and save money by postponing a purchase if you cant afford it or technology is in flux. Having said that - how much of this project should I chunk off?


----------



## CrysDark

Is Flags being civil? That would be a-mazing.


----------



## oofie810

Ok, just bought myself an HK AVR 235 on ebay for 215 + shipping and tax (i know, its a bit high). I now need some good speakers. I might just do a 2 speaker setup for the meantime as I have blown my budget on the receiver.


Can anyone recommend some good speakers? I've been looking for the polk r150 and I think everyone is out of them already. I was also looking at the velodyne CHT satellites for $69, but Im wondering if they will be enough as a 2 speaker system. I will be using this in a very small bedroom, so no real need for loud speakers. From there, I might add a center and a sub (when I have the money for it).


----------



## Jasherrr

PSB Speakers are from 1997 or 1998, hardly ever used and are 2ea PSB Century 400i, 2ea PSB Alpha Mite, and one PSB center speaker that matches the style of the Century 400i. I have no clue what they will sound like hooked up to the Onk 505 and HSU sub..but we will find out soon enough. ANyone ever had experience hooking up dinosaur speakers like this to newer technology? ANy prediction on how it might sound?


----------



## jizaref1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> 
> Did you check out the extended warranty for your TV from the Forum deals? If I recall you were looking at a very expensive 3 year extension from CC. BTW good to see you here on the HTIB alternatives thread. The system CC was trying to sell you sounded like a massive rip-off.



I've decided to go with the Polk set, and consider upgrading the sub later depending on how things sound. They cut me a deal, worth the *value* of the HTIB set!


XBR2 TV - 300 down to 2900+ (great price)

RM6880 Polk set -200 down to 499 (good price)

TXSR605 preorder -50 down to 450 (I know about J&R, just wanted a B&M store to deal with)


And extended warranty as is, with discount on install and prewire.


Worked for me, so I went for it. Will let you know how the set sounds in June/July once the basement is done!


Jeff


----------



## oofie810

Also, I'd like to hear your take on this guys. This system will be used in a small bedroom wherein the bed (where I'll be watching tv) is in a corner. If I wanted a 5.1 system, where do I place my rear speakers? Can I mount one rear speaker on the corner on top of the bed (around 4-5 feet on top)?


----------



## cer

Based on all of the recommendations of this site, I am soon-to-be the proud owner of:


A set of Velodyne Front Row CHT speakers (they came back to the website yesterday)

A Onkyo 504 receiver

A Bic H-100 subwoofer.


Everything has been purchased and I am awaiting delivery. I am definitely going to post my experience once everything is in place. I appreciate everyones patience with my questions and I can't wait to enter the HT world!


Does anyone have any suggestions on what I need to get in place before I recieve my equipment, as far as cables are concerned. Will I be able to do everything with cables from Home Depot or will I need additional audio cables.


Thanks again!!!


----------



## Tulpa

Home Depot will carry the audio cables (the ones going from the DVD players/Cable boxes/game consoles to the receiver), but you'll find them cheaper online, like at Monoprice.com or Blue Jeans Cable.


I would get _speaker wire_ from Home Depot, though, as they're priced as well as anyone else and tend to have it in stock. Pick up some 16 or 14 gauge wire in the lengths you need to run to each speaker.


What type of components will you be using with your receiver? That'll help determine the cables you need, but you'll probably need digital audio cables.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Home Depot will carry the audio cables (the ones going from the DVD players/Cable boxes/game consoles to the receiver), but you'll find them cheaper online, like at Monoprice.com or Blue Jeans Cable.
> 
> 
> I would get _speaker wire_ from Home Depot, though, as they're priced as well as anyone else and tend to have it in stock. Pick up some 16 or 14 gauge wire in the lengths you need to run to each speaker.
> 
> 
> What type of components will you be using with your receiver? That'll help determine the cables you need, but you'll probably need digital audio cables.



Wait, can I buy 100 ft of wire and cut it 4 ways, for instance, to 4 speakers 25 ft away? This is obviously not the setup, but I am curious if I can cut speaker wire in different lengths.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PSB Speakers are from 1997 or 1998, hardly ever used and are 2ea PSB Century 400i, 2ea PSB Alpha Mite, and one PSB center speaker that matches the style of the Century 400i. I have no clue what they will sound like hooked up to the Onk 505 and HSU sub..but we will find out soon enough. ANyone ever had experience hooking up dinosaur speakers like this to newer technology? ANy prediction on how it might sound?



Do you have a link to what these speakers look like? PSB is a well respected brand, but I'm unfamiliar with what they offered in the past. I do know some high end guys that love them. I suspect that you won't be able to improve your speakers for 

My fronts are vintage late 80's...there's nothing in their price range (that I paid) that can touch them

http://www.polksda.com/sda1c.shtml


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait, can I buy 100 ft of wire and cut it 4 ways, for instance, to 4 speakers 25 ft away? This is obviously not the setup, but I am curious if I can cut speaker wire in different lengths.



sure...every room and layout is different...every run is different depending on which way you go with the wire. No problem.


----------



## blobula

Has anyone heard, or looked at the HSU HB-1 bookshelf speakers? These seem to have received good reviews. They are $250 / pair.


----------



## indianafanatic

Yes, you can cut the wire in any lengths to suit your needs



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait, can I buy 100 ft of wire and cut it 4 ways, for instance, to 4 speakers 25 ft away? This is obviously not the setup, but I am curious if I can cut speaker wire in different lengths.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man - this is one sticky site. Am I the only one that feels like I am getting knowledge dropped on him left and right or what?
> 
> 
> Now that I have my gear together, I am trying to figure out if I can install this bad boy myself or if i need to go the Circuit City/Firedog or BB/Magnolia or Myer EMco $1k installation package route (I am in Northern Virginia). I am probably at risk of posting this in the wrong thread, but what would I typically need a pro's help with and what could/should a fairly handy dude be able to pull off on his own?
> 
> As I see it, I need to do the follwoing in my 14x23 room that has an HVAC room attached where my components will go in an already built custom cabinet that I can access from HVAC room to mess around with wires, then close when not adjusting so it looks like an in wall cabinet in the HT room:
> 
> 
> * Mount Panny Front Projector and fish hdmi cable and power through ceiling to HVAC room where I have power and my components in a custom wall cabinet that opens into theater room
> 
> * Mount 106" screen in front of room (or just punt this purchase for now and paint it)
> 
> * Somehow someway run speaker wires (under carpet maybe to save cash?) from 5 speakers to HVAC room where components are
> 
> * Program a yet to be purchased universal remote (any suggestions here?)
> 
> * Somehow fish my cable to HVAC room (this may need a pro now that I think about it)
> 
> * Connect the following to the Onkyo 505: HD DVR (has HDMI), the speakers, Upconvert DVD (HDMI)
> 
> 
> If I have learned one thing since yesterday with G-Star and everyone's help, it is stretch to buy quality, and save money by postponing a purchase if you cant afford it or technology is in flux. Having said that - how much of this project should I chunk off?



Having tried doing a similar project in the past, I can tell you that whole thing can be either a piece of cake or a nightmare. Depending on the direction the joists run in the room you may have an un-impeded channel to pull the wires through to the HVAC room. However if the joists run perpedicular to the direction you need to go you are looking at a major headache invovling cutting dry wall and such. If you dont mind having wire conduits visible on the ceiling and walls it is actually quite easy to run wires that way and still have a relatively clean looking set-up. Of course all depends on how handy you are. Best of luck.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jizaref1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've decided to go with the Polk set, and consider upgrading the sub later depending on how things sound. They cut me a deal, worth the *value* of the HTIB set!
> 
> 
> XBR2 TV - 300 down to 2900+ (great price)
> 
> RM6880 Polk set -200 down to 499 (good price)
> 
> TXSR605 preorder -50 down to 450 (I know about J&R, just wanted a B&M store to deal with)
> 
> 
> And extended warranty as is, with discount on install and prewire.
> 
> 
> Worked for me, so I went for it. Will let you know how the set sounds in June/July once the basement is done!
> 
> 
> Jeff



Jeff,


Sounds like you have it all figured out. Best of luck with your system. Now if I can only make up my mind about my system...


----------



## cer

Thanks Tulpa -


Really, all I will have is the cable box, dvd player and t.v. hooked up to the receiver. Occasionally a playstation.


Is the best bet going to be digital audio cables?


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to what these speakers look like? PSB is a well respected brand, but I'm unfamiliar with what they offered in the past. I do know some high end guys that love them. I suspect that you won't be able to improve your speakers for
> 
> My fronts are vintage late 80's...there's nothing in their price range (that I paid) that can touch them
> 
> http://www.polksda.com/sda1c.shtml


*Pretty cool site here gives PSB history and lists my stuff
http://www.interconnect-nordic.com/page9.html 


Here is a link to a pic and review of the 400i's, I have the stands also
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...6_1594crx.aspx 


And the Alpha Mite's
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...8_1594crx.aspx 


Pic of the speakers that someone is selling on ebay can be found by going to ebay and putting in "Century 400i" in the search


I will let you all know how they sound when I hook em up!*


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Pretty cool site here gives PSB history and lists my stuff
> http://www.interconnect-nordic.com/page9.html
> 
> 
> Here is a link to a pic and review of the 400i's, I have the stands also
> http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...6_1594crx.aspx
> 
> 
> And the Alpha Mite's
> http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...8_1594crx.aspx
> 
> 
> Pic of the speakers that someone is selling on ebay can be found by going to ebay and putting in "Century 400i" in the search
> 
> 
> I will let you all know how they sound when I hook em up!*



Thanks...not having heard them, I'd venture to say they are going to sound as nice as anything we've discussed here. The 400i's look nice.


----------



## Augmont

I have a few questions for those who have the Onkyo TX-503 receiver or close to it or know what i'm talking about. I actually have an Onkyo HTiB receiver but the only difference is the amp.


I would like to know how the frequency is handle when the speaker size for the L/R are set large and everything else is set to small. The frequency is set at 80. What happens when you set the x-over to 60? Is 60hz being pushed to those the "small" speakers as well?


I'm just trying to get an understanding of how it works so i'm sorry for the noobie q's.


----------



## mrgribbles

When speakers are designated as large, they will receive the low frequency (LF) signals as well as the sub woofer. If your speakers really can handle the lower bass extension, all could be well but if you try to drive them too hard and they are not up to the task, you could blow them. This seldom happens at normal listening levels. Usually you will hear a problem around the lower limit of their frequency response, if a problem exists. It may be distortion or just plain lousy mixing with the sub. If the speakers can handle it, you should not be able to tell if the sound is coming from the mains or the sub and when things get really low the mains will just drop out.


Your xover setting tells the AVR when to send LF to the sub and not to the other speakers. If your mains drop out at 100 hz and your xover is set to 60, you may not hear a thing between 100 and 60 hz if your speakers are set to small. You'll know if this is happening.


If you have very responsive sub woofer and it handles the upper end of the LF spectrum and your mains don't do a good job below 80 then set your speakers to small and raise your xover to 100 or 120. What someone else does is irrelevant to your set up but at this moment my mains are set to large and the xover is 80. I'm also using Onkyo's double bass function and so it is less xover dependent. I'm experiencing pretty seamless mixing.


Best way to get started with this is to pick up a calibration disc and an SPL meter. The calibration disk (AVIA or DVE) will generate a bunch of tones and the meter will tell you when speakers are responding or dropping out. The tutorial with the disks will tell you what it all means.


Tweak it and try it. Tweak it and try it. Good luck.


----------



## Augmont




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When speakers are designated as large, they will receive the low frequency (LF) signals as well as the sub woofer. If your speakers really can handle the lower bass extension, all could be well but if you try to drive them too hard and they are not up to the task, you could blow them. This seldom happens at normal listening levels. Usually you will hear a problem around the lower limit of their frequency response, if a problem exists. It may be distortion or just plain lousy mixing with the sub. If the speakers can handle it, you should not be able to tell if the sound is coming from the mains or the sub and when things get really low the mains will just drop out.
> 
> 
> Your xover setting tells the AVR when to send LF to the sub and not to the other speakers. If your mains drop out at 100 hz and your xover is set to 60, you may not hear a thing between 100 and 60 hz if your speakers are set to small. You'll know if this is happening.
> 
> 
> If you have very responsive sub woofer and it handles the upper end of the LF spectrum and your mains don't do a good job below 80 then set your speakers to small and raise your xover to 100 or 120. What someone else does is irrelevant to your set up but at this moment my mains are set to large and the xover is 80. I'm also using Onkyo's double bass function and so it is less xover dependent. I'm experiencing pretty seamless mixing.
> 
> 
> Best way to get started with this is to pick up a calibration disc and an SPL meter. The calibration disk (AVIA or DVE) will generate a bunch of tones and the meter will tell you when speakers are responding or dropping out. The tutorial with the disks will tell you what it all means.
> 
> 
> Tweak it and try it. Tweak it and try it. Good luck.



MrGribbles,


I understand the concept and i have calibrated my speakers. It was more a technical question. I'm curious to know if the x-over is set to 60 and the center is set to small, would the reciever still push 60hz to the center or because the center is set to small, it would not.


I have fronts that can handle 60hz easily but not the center or surrounds.


----------



## buzzy_

In addition to potential distortion or the (less likely) risk of damage - sending bass to speakers that can't handle it is a waste of amplifier power.


Just a reminder - in general, crossovers are not a hard cutoff, they are sloped, which makes sense if you think about it. So if you set a crossover to 80, your speaker will get signal below 80, just at a lower volume.


So if the xover is set to 60, the speaker will get 60 as well as something below that, at an attenuated (reduced) volume.


Pretty much this exact discussion about xovers a few pages back, just go read that. 60 is too low to set your xover, something a little over the bottom end of your speaker freq response for the speakers set to small.


You might just say what the freq response for your speakers are, eh?


----------



## mrgribbles

Sorry for the confusion, I confuse myself. The answer is if your center is small and your xover is 60 then everything below 60 goes to the sub, not to the center Above 60, to the center and not the sub.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry for the confusion, I confuse myself. The answer is if your center is small and your xover is 60 then everything below 60 goes to the sub, not to the center Above 60, to the center and not the sub.



That's not accurate, though it may be close enough. It's not a hard cutoff, in general.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's not accurate, though it may be close enough. It's not a hard cutoff, in general.



I agree.


----------



## Ron Temple

Since the Onk's got a single global crossover, I'd set your fronts to Large, center and surrounds to small and cross @ 80 or 100, whichever sounds best. It's recommended to to set your xover slightly above your +/- 3db point, but it's not written in stone.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Hey guys, this may have been discussed and I just missed it but. Has anyone used the BIC AMERICA speakers. The specs and look of these thing are fantastic for the price, and being associated with HSU is a plus. Has anyone got an opinion on the DV62si and the DV62CLR-S. I think these may be for me!!!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, this may have been discussed and I just missed it but. Has anyone used the BIC AMERICA speakers. The specs and look of these thing are fantastic for the price, and being associated with HSU is a plus. Has anyone got an opinion on the DV62si and the DV62CLR-S. I think these may be for me!!!!



They were talked about a great deal over at Audioholics about a year ago. If you're a Klipsch fan, then you'd probably like them. You might want to run over to AH and do a search.


----------



## NexusRho

Don't forget to try the Harman Kardon hkts 18 5.1 Speaker System. There acoustically matched very well to the Onkyo Receivers and they sound great!


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, I am done. Just bought the Onkyo 505 for $270 shipped, figure I can always ebay or craigslist later when the time comes to upgrade. G-star and everyone else, thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> Last question - if anyone has any opinions on the "Paint the screen" vs. "Buy this $400 100-106" screen" please let me know.
> 
> 
> All in all I think i did pretty good with everyone's help - $3k for 1080p panny, $420 for the HSU sub, $270 for the Onkyo receiver, squeeze some extra life out of my existing PSB's, maybe paint the screen for $150 and call it a day.
> 
> 
> Jay


*Projector Screen: OK, after reading evry thread of Goo vs Behr Silverscreen vs Gatorboard etc, I convinced myself to Goo the screen..but then I changed my mind. Looks to me like its at least $200 in materials to Goo it (not to mention the pain in the butt of sand/spackle/repeat to get the wall ready) So I said fork it.


I searched and found a seemingly good deal on this 105" 16:9 screen at a place called HTdepot. The screen is called Focupix. This company is about 15 miles from my office here in Northern Virginia, so I drove over and picked it up. I chatted up the owner for a little while and he says they bought a manufacturing facility in China and the screens are shipped direct from there. There was $100 off a fixed screen with a special coupon ("dreamscape")and bottom line it was $250 out the door - so I bought it. Seemed reasonable for a 105" fixed screen. There it sits in my garage until my Panny gets here from Costco tomorrow. I have no clue how I am going to mount that bad boy, but I guess I will figure something out.


Now that I have all my components, is it worth $699 to Firedog to come mount and install the speakers/screen/projector? Thanks people!*


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Now that I have all my components, is it worth $699 to Firedog to come mount and install the speakers/screen/projector? Thanks people!*



If you have the coin, it may save you some frustration. Just be sure that's an all-in price for what you've contracted them to do. Ever have a front door hung by Home Depot? The installation of ~ $500 excludes a host of other add-ons that pop the bill up to ~ $1300.


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you have the coin, it may save you some frustration. Just be sure that's an all-in price for what you've contracted them to do. Ever have a front door hung by Home Depot? The installation of ~ $500 excludes a host of other add-ons that pop the bill up to ~ $1300.



Thanks Ron - Just thinking about installing all this stuff makes me want to barf. I know I can probably do it, I just dont want to half-arse it and end up unhappy trying to save a few beans.


Stopped by Home Depot today also and just to confirm - all things being equal, do i want the 14 gauge or the 16 gauge?


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stopped by Home Depot today also and just to confirm - all things being equal, do i want the 14 gauge or the 16 gauge?



How long are your runs (length of wires running to speakers)? If they're all under 50 feet, 16 should be fine.


----------



## mistersmith

Hey guys,


Just wanted to thank everyone for this thread (esp. G-star and Ron Temple). I feel like I've gained a huge edge compared to everyone else out there when it comes to setting up a decent home theater system with separate components instead of a HTIB.


Purchased the Ascend bookshelf speakers 170SE and managed to score a HK235 on ebay for $219.40 (which includes shipping.). Still waiting on the receiver to arrive here, but I'll let everyone know how it sounds when it all comes together. I'm planning on purchasing a subwoofer but that'll be a couple months down the road.


THANKS!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mistersmith* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to thank everyone for this thread (esp. G-star and Ron Temple). I feel like I've gained a huge edge compared to everyone else out there when it comes to setting up a decent home theater system with separate components instead of a HTIB.
> 
> 
> Purchased the Ascend bookshelf speakers 170SE and managed to score a HK235 on ebay for $219.40 (which includes shipping.). Still waiting on the receiver to arrive here, but I'll let everyone know how it sounds when it all comes together. I'm planning on purchasing a subwoofer but that'll be a couple months down the road.
> 
> 
> THANKS!!



You did good...you're gonna like the Ascends...


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mistersmith* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wanted to thank everyone for this thread (esp. G-star and Ron Temple). I feel like I've gained a huge edge compared to everyone else out there when it comes to setting up a decent home theater system with separate components instead of a HTIB.



i'm glad to see this thread working out as i had hoped and people contributing as much as they have...it already looks like several people have put together some great budget HT setups. as ron mentioned earlier, it would be great if you guys could come back and leave some impressions and pics.


----------



## buzzy_

G, you really ought to update the OP to include new ideas and definitely ought to include some basic info on speaker wire and speaker placement.


Roger Russell's classic speaker wire table 
Crutchfield on speaker wire 

Speaker placement 


Lots of good general info:

Crutchfield Advisor 
Aperion 


Good luck, my last post in this thread for a while, at least.


----------



## dmbftp

Newbie here. Just bought my first receiver (onk 605). From what I saw here, I decided to go with the Bic H-100.


It looks like the Polk r150 are popular in this thread, but I'm not having any luck finding any at outpost and some other places want almost 2x as much as what you guys were mentioning with some sale prices on the polk.


Is there another good alternative? Someone recommended JBL arena Venue's to me, but that really might be pushing my budget. If I were to find the extra couple $, are those jbl's worth it? Or are the non-on sale Polk's still a better buy? I was really only wanting to spend another 200-300 on the 4 speakers and center. Or is that something, again, where I'd be better off spending another 50 bucks and having much better speakers?


I'm a newb to proper stuff here, so apologies for all the questions. Just hoping to get some extra knowledge dumped on me.


Thanks!


----------



## mrgribbles

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the 605 from?? Do you have it or is it a pre-release buy? Thanks.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the 605 from?? Do you have it or is it a pre-release buy? Thanks.



You can preorder over the phone with JR right now even though it's not listed on the site. Still debating whether to do it or not. I just know if I don't the price will prolly go up a couple hundred then I will be kicking myself.


----------



## mrgribbles

They originally had it for pre-order for $399. Is that still the same?


----------



## blobula

Yep that price is still valid. If you do order ask if that price will still be valid when it comes out, or if it will go up. I didn't get an answer when I asked.


----------



## mrgribbles

I'm picking up the phone. I'll let you know. Thanks again.


----------



## mrgribbles

Its on order @ $399. $24 shipping but I got the + 2yrs ext warranty and no shipping charge so the extended warranty was $4. ETA first week in May so I should see it around September.


Thanks again for your help blobula. If you're going to do it, I would, because once the news gets out that you can call it in, they'll be a feeding frenzy. I was playing the waiting game to see who would flinch on price but right now all my neurosis' (neuroses!!) are kickin in.


----------



## blobula

So that price will definitely do up when it's released then?


Your getting yours in September? Wow, there must be a lot of orders for this thing.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> G, you really ought to update the OP to include new ideas and definitely ought to include some basic info on speaker wire and speaker placement.



good idea...i've taken the liberty to include the links you referenced...thanks.


i'm going out of town for a few days, but when i return i might try to update the OP with new speaker/sub/receiver ideas that seem to be flying around lately.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So that price will definitely do up when it's released then?
> 
> 
> Your getting yours in September? Wow, there must be a lot of orders for this thing.



The September thing was sarcasm. Sorry to mislead you. I can't say what will happen when they do hit the shelves but others (B&H) have them on pre-order for $499. I have bought from J&R before with no problem but I don't know if they will pull a price fast one or not. People like Amazon have pre-order price protection so that if the price drops before shipping you get the lower price. I don't know about J&R. I shall research it.


I can't wait to get it. I have a test disk in DTS HD MA mastered by DTS that I can't play (to its fullest potential) yet.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmbftp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie here. Just bought my first receiver (onk 605). From what I saw here, I decided to go with the Bic H-100.
> 
> 
> It looks like the Polk r150 are popular in this thread, but I'm not having any luck finding any at outpost and some other places want almost 2x as much as what you guys were mentioning with some sale prices on the polk.
> 
> 
> Is there another good alternative? Someone recommended JBL arena Venue's to me, but that really might be pushing my budget. If I were to find the extra couple $, are those jbl's worth it? Or are the non-on sale Polk's still a better buy? I was really only wanting to spend another 200-300 on the 4 speakers and center. Or is that something, again, where I'd be better off spending another 50 bucks and having much better speakers?
> 
> 
> I'm a newb to proper stuff here, so apologies for all the questions. Just hoping to get some extra knowledge dumped on me.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The estimated ship date for my Polk R150's is 05/02/2007 and they are currently on back order so maybe they might have them in stock in a week or so.


From what others have said the AV123 x-ls series speakers are prolly a good choice.


----------



## cer

Just a heads up...


Onkyo is having a sale on refurbished equipment until April 29. All refurbs are an additional 10% off.


I got the 504 shipped for $133.10


----------



## onebxr

can someone put up a link for the Onkyo refurb site for those that want to check them out. I would but work filters are blocking it.

-Rich


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can someone put up a link for the Onkyo refurb site for those that want to check them out. I would but work filters are blocking it.
> 
> -Rich



Sure: http://www.shoponkyo.com/homepage.cfm 


dave1smith just posted that there is a 10% off sale going on. The S790 is available for $286.


----------



## dbrowdy

Okay I've learned a lot on this thread but it's time for another noob quesiton. :-] Is there any SQ difference between digital coax and optical toslink cables? My computer has outputs for both and I'm wondering which I should use. I believe the cables are very similarly priced on monoprice.com so it seems that shouldn't be an issue. My HK340 has a buttload of inputs so I'm assuming (tho I haven't YET confirmed) that either will work on that end.


So yeah, ceterus paribus, is there any reason to use one over the other? BTW, this will be a 25' run.


Thx,

D


----------



## dmbftp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The estimated ship date for my Polk R150's is 05/02/2007 and they are currently on back order so maybe they might have them in stock in a week or so.
> 
> 
> From what others have said the AV123 x-ls series speakers are prolly a good choice.



I think that the x-ls are out of my budget for the time being. I'll keep my eyes out for the r150's in about a week.


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay I've learned a lot on this thread but it's time for another noob quesiton. :-] Is there any SQ difference between digital coax and optical toslink cables? My computer has outputs for both and I'm wondering which I should use. I believe the cables are very similarly priced on monoprice.com so it seems that shouldn't be an issue. My HK340 has a buttload of inputs so I'm assuming (tho I haven't YET confirmed) that either will work on that end.
> 
> 
> So yeah, ceterus paribus, is there any reason to use one over the other? BTW, this will be a 25' run.
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> D



I've got a related question to this. Btw, I think I read that there isn't any particular reason to use digital coax over toslink or vice versa, but I may be wrong. What I really want to know is, do these 2 cable types fall into the same BS paradigm as speaker cables? i.e. - Is there a reason to buy the super expensive digital optical cables, or will the cheapest ones work just as well, w/ no loss in quality? Is online at a place like monoprice.com the best place, or can these cables be purchased at a B&M store for a good price? Thanks again guys!


----------



## onebxr

Monoprice cables will do as good or better than the high price cables at BB or CC. Dont waste your money.

-Rich


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> It looks like the Polk r150 are popular in this thread, but I'm not having any luck finding any at outpost and some other places want almost 2x as much as what you guys were mentioning with some sale prices on the polk.
> 
> 
> Is there another good alternative? Someone recommended JBL arena Venue's to me, but that really might be pushing my budget. If I were to find the extra couple $, are those jbl's worth it? Or are the non-on sale Polk's still a better buy? I was really only wanting to spend another 200-300 on the 4 speakers and center. Or is that something, again, where I'd be better off spending another 50 bucks and having much better speakers?



Look at the Acoustic Research bookshelfs from MCM electronics for $49/pr. They even come with mounting brackets. And you can buy a matching center from J&R. You'll get out the door under $200 including shipping.

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?...Fid=58%2D10995 


Center speaker. http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4151631 


There's a review with multiple pics in the speaker section. Pics in post #40.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=AR+VP25 


I've never been impressed with the Polk R15 and I've listened to it multiple times because of the bargain price. So if the R150 is the same speaker in a different box, then its just so-so. Good for the money but just ok overall.


MCM is where many of us purchased our Advent Heritage bookshelf speakers for $32/pr. It was a ridiculous price and an incredible bargain. Once word got out those 300 pairs went fast. And shipping was something like $8 a pair!


----------



## superjett

I'd just like to say thanks for this thread and the updates, very informative.


----------



## cer

I thought I remember seeing this on this thread, but I can't find it. I realize that this is a noob questiong but I am going to ask it anyway.


Like I said before, I am waiting on delivery of my Onkyo 504 and trying to determine what cables, and how many I need. I am going to hook up a cable box and dvd player.


I thought at one time I read on here that there is no need to run the video through the a/v receiver. Is that correct?


Which cables will I need to have in place to hook these components up? My cable box is currently connected to my tv by hdmi cable.


Does this mean I will need one digital audio cable fromt the cable box to the receiver and leave my hdmi feed from the cable box to the tv for video? And one digital audio cable from the dvd to the receiver.


I am slightly confused and any help would be appreciated.


----------



## pdadi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought I remember seeing this on this thread, but I can't find it. I realize that this is a noob questiong but I am going to ask it anyway.
> 
> 
> Like I said before, I am waiting on delivery of my Onkyo 504 and trying to determine what cables, and how many I need. I am going to hook up a cable box and dvd player.
> 
> 
> I thought at one time I read on here that there is no need to run the video through the a/v receiver. Is that correct?
> 
> 
> Which cables will I need to have in place to hook these components up? My cable box is currently connected to my tv by hdmi cable.
> 
> 
> Does this mean I will need one digital audio cable fromt the cable box to the receiver and leave my hdmi feed from the cable box to the tv for video? And one digital audio cable from the dvd to the receiver.
> 
> 
> I am slightly confused and any help would be appreciated.



Connect video cables(hdmi and component) to TV directly. Connect optical/coaxial from cablebox/DVD player to 504. Turn off audio on TV.


----------



## dmbftp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look at the Acoustic Research bookshelfs from MCM electronics for $49/pr. They even come with mounting brackets. And you can buy a matching center from J&R. You'll get out the door under $200 including shipping.




Thanks for the info. From my limited knowledge, those look like they'll work perfectly for me and right within budget.


----------



## dbrowdy

I just found this thread over in another section of the forum. I haven't even scratched the surface yet but I think it should help a lot of us. G-Star might even wanna put it in the front page (*hint hint*)

Setting Up Your Home Theatre 101 


D


----------



## Ruhnie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just found this thread over in another section of the forum. I haven't even scratched the surface yet but I think it should help a lot of us. G-Star might even wanna put it in the front page (*hint hint*)
> 
> Setting Up Your Home Theatre 101
> 
> 
> D




It's a truly amazing thread, I've been trying to slowly work my way through it. I am such an HT noob


----------



## dbrowdy

I found THIS ARTICLE at Audioholics that explains the difference between Coax and Optical for digital audio. Basically, I gather that optical has many potential issues that can cause signal loss/sound degradation such as run length, digital/optical signal translation, bend radius, etc. While coax has issues with EM interference and ground loops, those are familiar problems and relatively easy to deal with.


I think I'm going to use coax anywhere I have the option (especially since the run from my computer will be 25'). There's some stuff in there about HDMI/DVI video but I haven't gotten that far yet. Hope this helps others!


D


----------



## slubu

So I am patiently awaiting all my speakers - probably another 3 weeks or so. Can I just hook up my sub for now? Or is there any negative in doing so. I assume I have to do something with the cross-overs and large/small stuff.


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Projector Screen: OK, after reading evry thread of Goo vs Behr Silverscreen vs Gatorboard etc, I convinced myself to Goo the screen..but then I changed my mind. Looks to me like its at least $200 in materials to Goo it (not to mention the pain in the butt of sand/spackle/repeat to get the wall ready) So I said fork it.
> 
> 
> I searched and found a seemingly good deal on this 105" 16:9 screen at a place called HTdepot. The screen is called Focupix. This company is about 15 miles from my office here in Northern Virginia, so I drove over and picked it up. I chatted up the owner for a little while and he says they bought a manufacturing facility in China and the screens are shipped direct from there. There was $100 off a fixed screen with a special coupon ("dreamscape")and bottom line it was $250 out the door - so I bought it. Seemed reasonable for a 105" fixed screen. There it sits in my garage until my Panny gets here from Costco tomorrow. I have no clue how I am going to mount that bad boy, but I guess I will figure something out.
> 
> 
> Now that I have all my components, is it worth $699 to Firedog to come mount and install the speakers/screen/projector? Thanks people!*



REMOTE: Someone forgot to tell me I need to figure out what the heck to do about a universal remote. Seems there is a war between the DIY Harmony people and the Custom Install Universal Remote (URC) crowd. I kind of punted this decision and did the best I could under $200 and bought the Logitech Harmony 720. It all gets setup Wednesday so I will report on my progress


INSTALLATION: I lucked out BIG TIME and found a custom install guy willing to wire my room for 7.1, ceiling mount the projector, mount the screen, program the remote, program the lighting, and basically set me up for under $700. My other options was Firedog/Magnolia (yuck) so I feel fortunate. Room gets installed Wednesday


Old PSB Speakers: I got my Onkyo 505 receiver and hooked it up to my old 1997 version bookshelf PSB's - and they sound great, I mean really great. I will find some budget satellites to make it 7 speakers and call it a day


Thanks again for everyone's help. I need to get 2 small satellite speakers, two 3' HDMI cables, one 20' HDMI cable, and a Lutron Maestro IR Dimmer - any suggestions?


----------



## Jasherrr

*Panicking about speakers again - help needed!*


I had my meeting with my custom install guy today, and I think I need to revisit my speaker decision. I am installing in my 14x23x9 room:


*Panasonic PT-AE1000U 1080p projector

*Focupix 105"screen (actual viewing area 100)

*Onkyo 505 Receiver

*HSU VTF-1 subwoofer

*HD-DVR, Upconvert DVD player

*Old but serviceable PSB center channel, two front PSB Century 400i, and two PSB Alpha Mites


My problem is that the PSB's now look chunky, and I am revisiting my decision to keep them all. I am thinking about keeping the Front three, junking the Alpha Mites, and buying 4 Orb Audio speakers with the wall mounts - they just look money in the online photos. The whole speaker setup would cost me $500 - but is it worth it? The guy is wiring the room, so it makes sense to do 7.1 while he is there I guess, but will I be able to notice the difference from 5.1?


Lastly - are there aesthetically pleasing wall mount-able or maybe even in-wall options anyone would recommend?


Thanks people!


----------



## dbrowdy

Well here's my $0.02...I'd MUCH rather go for sound quality than aesthetics when it comes to speakers. That's just me, but audio is the most important part of my HT system. That's why I spent more than 2x the cost of my TV on speakers/receiver instead of the other way around. My brother would rather spend 2x as much on a TV and get a cheap HTIB with maybe a decent sub. Everyone's different but I personally cringe at the idea of going with visual aesthetics over audio aesthetics for speakers (whose main job after all is audio!)


I guess there's nothing wrong with going for speaker that both sound AND look good, but being the miser I am, I'd sooner pay less for ones that don't necessarily look as stylin.


Lastly, everything I've read says in-wall and in-ceiling speakers just can't get the good sound quality of real speakers. Something having to do with the direction they're (not) pointing and sound reflections and such.


D


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well here's my $0.02...I'd MUCH rather go for sound quality than aesthetics when it comes to speakers. That's just me, but audio is the most important part of my HT system. That's why I spent more than 2x the cost of my TV on speakers/receiver instead of the other way around. My brother would rather spend 2x as much on a TV and get a cheap HTIB with maybe a decent sub. Everyone's different but I personally cringe at the idea of going with visual aesthetics over audio aesthetics for speakers (whose main job after all is audio!)
> 
> 
> I guess there's nothing wrong with going for speaker that both sound AND look good, but being the miser I am, I'd sooner pay less for ones that don't necessarily look as stylin.
> 
> 
> Lastly, everything I've read says in-wall and in-ceiling speakers just can't get the good sound quality of real speakers. Something having to do with the direction they're (not) pointing and sound reflections and such.
> 
> 
> D



I hear you. In wall/ceiling is out, but that still leaves me with my "junk the alpha mites and get something else be it orb or whatever" issue. You definitely say 7.1 over 5.1?


----------



## dbrowdy

Well I'm still an HT noob, but IMHO if you've already spent a couple grand on a projector, screen, receiver, installation, blah blah blah, an extra hundred or two for 7.1 seems like a good idea.


I have never heard 7.1 myself but it doesn't seem like a priority investment to me. I think the novelty of 5.1 will last for a bit, until 7.1 source becomes more ubiquitous at least. :-D But like I said, in your case, I think 7.1 is a valid choice....if you're gonna do it, do it right I say.


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hear you. In wall/ceiling is out, but that still leaves me with my "junk the alpha mites and get something else be it orb or whatever" issue. You definitely say 7.1 over 5.1?



Any comment on the Orbs as a pair for this setup?


----------



## mrgribbles

dbrwody has sage advice. Plan for the future and running the extra cables is the right thing to do, just as valid as making sure your receiver has 7.1 speaker outs.


As noted, there is a dearth of 7.1 material at this time. However, there is a fair amount of 6.1 showing up as DD EX (and also in DTS) and this will take advantage of one or both speakers on the back surround. Also, you can direct your receiver to decode and mix 5.1 material artificially into 6.1 by using the DD PL EX format or DTS neo. So you can benefit from the extra speakers at this time, but I wouldn't make that the ultimate priority today. Good 5.1 is OK.


----------



## Uber n00b

G-Star, this thread couldn't have been placed in a better place. I've been out of the AV world for a long time and was just planning on buying a HTIB setup. Reading this thread completely changed my mind and I am opting to go for a 2.1 for now and build it as I am able.


Due to the awesome links and info you provided (and a bit of my own research) I was able to get the following items from Amazon for $445 out the door (with tax and shipping).


- Onkyo TX-SR504 7.1 Channel A/V Receiver -- BRAND NEW, NOT REFURB ($168.98 with free shipping)


-Athena AS-B1.2 Audition Series 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers, Black Ash (Pair) -- $147.73 (with free shipping)


-Athena AS-C1.2 Audition Series Center Channel Speaker, Black Ash (Single) -- $114.99 + about $12 shipping


I will probably add the AV123 sub for $199 and sit tight with this setup for a while. For rear channel I will probably add 2 in-ceiling speakers since I don't have anywhere else to put them reasonably.


Question: I have always been a Klipsch fan. Back in the early 90s I had a really nice setup of all Denon components, Klipsch front channel towers (best speakers ever!) and Infinity center and rears.


What is the opinion on Klipsch's current in-ceiling offerings? What would you PROS recommend for a decent in-ceiling rear channel speaker setup ON A BUDGET?


I am trying to build the best system possible for the least amount of money possible. Based upon the Onkyo, Athena, AV123 combo I have now what in-ceiling speakers do you think would be the best logical add on?


----------



## hsieh

Thanks to G-Star for starting this thread, and for the helpful posts a lot of you guys have left.


I had a question, but couldn't find an answer in the previous posts. I purchased two Polk R300s for the fronts, and am looking to fill in the rest (center, rears, sub). My question is specifically about the rears. Based on the layout of my room (roughly 20 by 15 feet), I need to mount the rears on the rear wall. From what I've read, it looks like the polk R150s can't be used that way, because they have a rear port. Someone thought of using the R15s as rears. Can I use the satellites used with the polk speaker systems? I found some rm6751 sold on amazon for $54 each. Can I use these? would they match the R300s? I'm planning to purchase the onkyo tx-sr504 receiver, a polk csr center, and a bic h100 sub.


Thank.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Hey guys, me again. Decisions are so hard. What would you do, I have an older SONY 5.1 HTiB that I was going to upgrade the speakrs on, but I looked at the Denon HTiB FOR $519.00 and although I hate the sub in this system would I be better off buying that for the electronics and slightly better speakers, or upgrading my speakers with the current receiver?


----------



## SynergyFP3

Hi All,


1) [email protected] thread - it's been said before, but its a great place to start research.


2) Just got a new TV (60" Sony SXRD) and love it - now comes audio


3) Love the recommendations, and was going to order some Onkyo goodness, but have discovered it is very hard to get it delivered - I live in AUSTRALIA


Which leads me to....


4) Any ideas on which receivers mentioned do auto voltage switching etc out of the box?


Aside from the receiver and powered sub, is there any reason I should be wary of buying audio gear to use on 220-240 vault supplies?


Cheers


Syn


----------



## superjett

The Polk R300's are back on sale at outpost for $50/each.


----------



## superjett

I pulled the trigger on these this morning, should have them all by this weekend. I won't have much to compare to, so I figure they'll be good enough for my theater for now.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look at the Acoustic Research bookshelfs from MCM electronics for $49/pr. They even come with mounting brackets. And you can buy a matching center from J&R. You'll get out the door under $200 including shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Center speaker.
> 
> 
> There's a review with multiple pics in the speaker section. Pics in post #40.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been impressed with the Polk R15 and I've listened to it multiple times because of the bargain price. So if the R150 is the same speaker in a different box, then its just so-so. Good for the money but just ok overall.
> 
> 
> MCM is where many of us purchased our Advent Heritage bookshelf speakers for $32/pr. It was a ridiculous price and an incredible bargain. Once word got out those 300 pairs went fast. And shipping was something like $8 a pair!


----------



## dmbftp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look at the Acoustic Research bookshelfs from MCM electronics for $49/pr. They even come with mounting brackets. And you can buy a matching center from J&R. You'll get out the door under $200 including shipping.
> 
> Center speaker from J&R.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superjett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I pulled the trigger on these this morning, should have them all by this weekend. I won't have much to compare to, so I figure they'll be good enough for my theater for now.



I bought on Friday morning for the full set there of the avrs. I live in GA and they showed up this morning. I haven't even opened the boxes yet though. Now, for the 605 to ship and me to figure out how to setup the living room.


This thread has been great.


----------



## carlosnindy

First post. I am not up on audio stuff, but I have learned quite a bit by reading this thread. Thank you guys for all your information. Here is what I have set up so far.


Toshiba 57HM167 DLP 1080P Telvevision

Velodyne CHT FRONT ROW SYSTEM (on order)

Oppo 981 Upconversion DVD Player

12" Sony Sub (5 Years Old)

Sony ST-DE545 Receiver


Now my question is, how much of a real improvement would a non audiophile hear in upgrading the Sony receiver to something like the Onkyo 504. Currently the Sony receiver is pushing 5 Sony seperate speakers, but I will be replacing those with the Velodynes. At this time I do not have the money to upgrade the Sony Sub, but I am satisfied with it at this time anyway, but I do have an interest in replacing the Sony receiver if it would make a big difference.


----------



## onebxr

CArlos-

I would think about replacing the sub with a bic 100 before replacing the receiver. I think you will hear more and appreciate your system more if you get rid of that sony sub. You just dont realize how much a good sub adds to your listening pleasure.

-Rich


----------



## carlosnindy

How about the BICV1020 sub?


----------



## onebxr

I dont know what that one sounds like. The Bic H100 sub was developed in part with Dr. Hsu


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SynergyFP3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 1) [email protected] thread - it's been said before, but its a great place to start research.
> 
> 
> 2) Just got a new TV (60" Sony SXRD) and love it - now comes audio
> 
> 
> 3) Love the recommendations, and was going to order some Onkyo goodness, but have discovered it is very hard to get it delivered - I live in AUSTRALIA
> 
> 
> Which leads me to....
> 
> 
> 4) Any ideas on which receivers mentioned do auto voltage switching etc out of the box?
> 
> 
> Aside from the receiver and powered sub, is there any reason I should be wary of buying audio gear to use on 220-240 vault supplies?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Syn



I have the 60" SXRD also but have no system hooked up to it. I have been looking at 2.1 systems, but pretty much punted. Please let us know how it sounds once you haev it all hooked up!


Thanks people


----------



## brianjen13

Just a question for you guys. I haven't found much info on these cables. They seem decent.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2407257 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2404348 

Brian


----------



## dbrowdy

Well I cashed in my fishbowl full of change for over $300 so I sprung for an Oppo 970HD upscaling DVD player. Everything I've read points to this being the last DVD player I'll need until Blu-ray/HDDVD. I also got a pair of Ominmount 20.0 wall mounts for the rear speakers. I'm gonna go ghetto and put my fronts on top of my old speakers for now (gimme a couple paychecks and I'll be purchasing some nice front stands!) unless the sound is noticeably bad for some reason.


All my cables are in the mail as well as the Harmony 550 universal remote. The speakers ship tomorrow and I pick up my TV on Thursday. The AVR is here already and running my old system right now. Oh and I found a cheap used copy of the Avia HT setup DVD.


Hopefully by this time next week I'll be posting pics and rave reviews of my phat new system. :-D


----------



## theother

First of all let me say thanks to all those that contributed to make this a great thread.

I've been around reading for quite a while, finally decided to register and ask some questions.


I was originally looking at getting a HTIB, did some reading on the forum and almost

skipped this thread entirely. Good thing I didn't









I have since decide to go with a 3.1 sound setup to begin with, and then as time goes on to progress to a 5.1 or 7.1 system.


For starters I have about $800 I can spend on this right now.

I listen to a lot of music, but the majority would be for games and movies.

The room size is about 13x15 roughly.


I was thinking of:

Fronts: x-ls Bookshelf Loudspeaker

Center: x-cs Center/Main/Surround Loudspeaker

Subwoofer:BIC H-100 12"


I don't know if they go together or if it is ok. Is it overkill or not?

For a receiver I was recommended to buy a Denon. I don't need anything fancy just an entry level receiver is what i need, but some of the differences are confusing to me.


Anyways I look forward to you inputs. Thanks in advance.


----------



## onebxr

If you are going av123 why dont you go ahead and get the sub that comes with the package? I have heard great things about it.

-Rich


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Decided on a setup, tell me what you think. I was trying to keep it under 350.00 total for shipping and all. I selected the POLK R300 for my mains and surrounds for $49.99 each and the POLK CSi25 for my venter at $78.00. I'll be pushing these with a Sony receiver and using a 12" sub that I will upgrade later. I just hope I hear a HUGE DIFFERENCE over the HTiB speakers I currently have. My wife says there had better be a sound difference,haha.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 1) [email protected] thread - it's been said before, but its a great place to start research.
> 
> 
> 2) Just got a new TV (60" Sony SXRD) and love it - now comes audio
> 
> 
> 3) Love the recommendations, and was going to order some Onkyo goodness, but have discovered it is very hard to get it delivered - I live in AUSTRALIA
> 
> 
> Which leads me to....
> 
> 
> 4) Any ideas on which receivers mentioned do auto voltage switching etc out of the box?
> 
> 
> Aside from the receiver and powered sub, is there any reason I should be wary of buying audio gear to use on 220-240 vault supplies?
> 
> 
> Cheers



I've seen it mentioned (in this thread) that you need to be careful about which model receiver you receive from Onkyo when ordering, but Onkyo does make a European version of their TX-SR504 (IIRC, it's called the TX-SR504E) and it comes with 220v support as well as some other nifty features I wish that the North American version supported (such as support for broadcast radio stations that send detailed text info about the station and what's on the air).


----------



## G-star

original post updated again to include a superb link to tons of information on setting up your HT suggested a few pages ago.


this thread is a *must read* for the noobs.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> original post updated again to include a superb link to tons of information on setting up your HT suggested a few pages ago.
> 
> 
> this thread is a *must read* for the noobs.



Thanks, G-star. This thread is a must read for noobs like me and I appreciate the help folks have given on this thread and other threads in the Speakers and HT sections of AVSForums.


My own HT system is finally hooked up and I'll be running it through some tests to see how it sounds over the next couple of days. The room is a bit odd (it's a large room and only 1/2 of it is used for viewing movies and playing games) and I've only had a chance to listen to a bit of music and part of a movie, but so far so good.


My setup:


Receiver: ONKYO TX-SR504B (7.1)

Speakers: Polk RM6750 5.1 package + 2 RM6750 satellites


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you are going av123 why dont you go ahead and get the sub that comes with the package? I have heard great things about it.
> 
> -Rich



interestingly, craigsub over in the sub forum has tested both of these subs and found them both to be good performers/values in the $200 sub category. in the end, he gave the edge to the X-sub, though the final scores were quite close.


he found the X-sub to have the edge in terms of articulation and percussiveness. he found the Bic H-100 to have about 3dB more output and the ability to dig a few Hz deeper than the X-sub.


what does this all mean? they are both an excellent choice at the ~$200 pricepoint. if you listen to a lot of music, the X-sub might be the best choice. for strictly HT, the Bic will get you that extra extension and output. in the end, it depends on your priorities and personal tastes, and either sub will be a substantial upgrade from a typical HTIB sub.


----------



## studdad

Hey Everyone:


Good News!! my speakers are supposed to be shipping within the next 2 weeks (although I will believe it when I see it). By now, I am sure everyone knows what my setup is, but just in case, here it is again:


Yamaha 661 receiver

x-ls speakers (fronts)

x-cs center

x-sub

Oppo 981 DVD

Directv HD DVR

Components hooked up via HDMI, and still waiting for the x speakers/sub.


Ok, I think I found a way to route speaker wire to the rear (involves some additional molding, but the wife is game). I was thinking of purchasing two additional x-ls speakers, but was nixed by the wife, as they are just too big for the rear space. Sooooo, my question is, what small (rear surround) speakers would be a good match for the x speakers? Before putting in the hardwood floors, I had my htib rear surround speakers (wires under the carpet) in the rear. Their dimensions were 6"h x 4"w x 4"d. I would like to be as close to that as possible, or smaller. If there is a good set for under $200 per pair, that would be great, but I would be willing to go as high as $250, or even a little higher if necessary.


My next question requires wiring. If I do purchase surrounds, the way I would have to wire them would require an 85 foot run. At this length (and I think Ron may have already answered this, but too lazy to jump out of this post to see) would 12g wire be recommended?


Thanks guys


----------



## dbrowdy

I spent the better part of the day today reading about surround speaker setups (hey work's been slow!), including 3 *amazing* presentations by Dr. Toole at Harmon International. All the links can be found in the HT Setup 101 thread linked in the first post. From what I gather 7.1 is not for everyone and it might behoove you to read up a little and decide whether it meets your needs based on listening preferences and room configuration.


I feel much better knowing that, in my current room configuration, the rear surrounds probably won't add much and might even detract from the listening experience.


Oh and as to the speaker-wire, check the updated links in the first post for details on gauge vs. run length.


D


----------



## studdad

dbrowdy: Thanks for the info. I was just looking for surround speakers that turn my system into 5.1. I am currently at 3.1 due to the loss of the rear surrounds. I will check the wire gauge details. Thanks!!


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone:
> 
> 
> Good News!! my speakers are supposed to be shipping within the next 2 weeks (although I will believe it when I see it). By now, I am sure everyone knows what my setup is, but just in case, here it is again:




Don't count on it. They gave me the two weeks answer as well... two weeks after they told me the exact same thing. For as much as I wanted em, I wasn't going to wait around for a month or two for AVS to retool it's Colombia warehouse.


Ended up cancelling the order a few days ago and ordering a pair of more expensive Polk Rti6. Really a bit annoying that AVS is so off the ball on this.


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone:
> 
> 
> Good News!! my speakers are supposed to be shipping within the next 2 weeks (although I will believe it when I see it). By now, I am sure everyone knows what my setup is, but just in case, here it is again:
> 
> 
> Yamaha 661 receiver
> 
> x-ls speakers (fronts)
> 
> x-cs center
> 
> x-sub
> 
> Oppo 981 DVD
> 
> Directv HD DVR
> 
> Components hooked up via HDMI, and still waiting for the x speakers/sub.
> 
> 
> Ok, I think I found a way to route speaker wire to the rear (involves some additional molding, but the wife is game). I was thinking of purchasing two additional x-ls speakers, but was nixed by the wife, as they are just too big for the rear space. Sooooo, my question is, what small (rear surround) speakers would be a good match for the x speakers? Before putting in the hardwood floors, I had my htib rear surround speakers (wires under the carpet) in the rear. Their dimensions were 6"h x 4"w x 4"d. I would like to be as close to that as possible, or smaller. If there is a good set for under $200 per pair, that would be great, but I would be willing to go as high as $250, or even a little higher if necessary.
> 
> 
> My next question requires wiring. If I do purchase surrounds, the way I would have to wire them would require an 85 foot run. At this length (and I think Ron may have already answered this, but too lazy to jump out of this post to see) would 12g wire be recommended?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys




I have these with my X-Series speakers for rears. Not to bad if you want something on wall. http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...und.html#bp12x They are a little more then you want to spend but well worth it. I got mine at a Magnolia store for $300.00 out the door.


----------



## studdad

thanks Echo, those look good, but still a little too big. I was looking for something around 7" high or shorter if possible.


----------



## studdad

Saveme: Ya, they sent out a letter today saying they will be shipping all orders that came in before April 23 within 2 weeks. I am not holding my breath.


----------



## studdad

Another Q:


I was looking at the Middies for surround speakers. At 9" tall, they are still a bit on the tall side, but maybe I can get them past the wife. I have one concern, which is actually a concern with all these smaller speakers. The frequency only gets down to 100Hz. Does that mean I have to put my sub crossover at 100Hz, and how will that effect the other x series speakers?


----------



## dbrowdy

I know the HK can set the crossover for every speaker pair seperately...check your AVR...


----------



## studdad

dbrowdy:


Oh,,,,,didnt even think of that. I will check it out. Thanks


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks Echo, those look good, but still a little too big. I was looking for something around 7" high or shorter if possible.



you *might* be able to find a pair of athena S.5's on ebay or audiogon. these will probably fit your size requirements, and come with excellent mounting brackets. might not be the best tonal match to your front three, but if you are doing mostly HT, this won't be too much of a problem. if you've got an H/K receiver, the independent bass management will allow you to cross the surrounds over at a higher frequency than your mains.


i'm using them as surrounds with athena audition series fronts and an H/K 235, and they have been great, especially for


----------



## cer

Ok. Yesterday I finally received my sub woofer and speakers.










I have the Onkyo 504, the Velodyne Front Rows and the Bic-100.


I did a quick set up on them last night and I can tell that everything that I had read on here was true. All are very high quality pieces of equipment. Although there were moments of greatness I am still struggling with the setup.


As I am new to the High Quality Home Theater world, I was slightly overwhelmed by the amount of options and controls for this system. I played with crossover points listening modes for most of the night and I could never find a point that I was happy with. I realize that this tweeking will take a while and every room is different but I was looking for some help to get me somewhat closer.


I found for the most part that my rear surrounds appear very weak unless I was listening to the All Channels Listening Mode, in which case the surrounds and the subwoofer seemed to overpower a little bit.


Also, is my subwoofer crossover supposed to be the same as my reciever crossover??


And, what can anyone tell me about what they have learned about the listening modes. They are driving me crazy.


For the most part, I am watching regular tv,HDTV and DVDs. Every once in a while it will be used for music.


Again this has been a great thread! Just look where it got me










Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## G-star

cer-


congrats on the new setup. i would recommend setting the cross-over on all speakers to 100Hz. disable the cross-over on the H-100, let the AVR handle all of this.


for movies, DD 5.1 or DTS (if available on the disc) is best. yes, you won't hear the rear speakers much unless they are called upon by the film to produce an effect. for music, dolby pro-logic II is usally good (less emphasis on the rears here too), and all-channel stereo if you want to hear all speakers at equal volume.


try to balance your speakers with the trims for each channel in the AVR so that you're hearing the same volume from each at the main listening position. this is best done with an SPL meter, but try it by ear if you don't have one or plan on getting one. see the updated 1st post in this thread for links to a lot of information on basic setup.


good luck and enjoy.


----------



## cer

G-Star,


Thank you so much for all of your help through out this thread. It has been great. I will try the suggestions that you offered.


By "trims" are you referring to setting the volumes for each speaker or changing the distances for the speakers?


Also, I am at work now, so I can't look at it, but I don't remember seeing a way to disable the crossover on the sub. Is there a switch for that?


Thanks again.


----------



## mrphilby

Thanks to all the advice in this thread - saved me from getting a HTIB and focus on separates and scaling my setup to get the best quality.


I ended up having a little bigger budget then i thought because I spent less on the TV than I was planning (got the tosh 65hm167 for 2089, not bad for B&M).


I ended up going with the onkyo 605 (so i won't be able to enjoy my stereo for awhile, but I think the wait will be worth it) and Polk R150s for my mains which I will eventually move to the surrounds when I save some $$ and figure out how to run wire to them w/o it being too visible. Polk CSi3 for my center and polk PSW10 for a sub (i know, probably not the best, but I'm sure it'll be OK for my first HT).


So i got a nice 3.1 system for about $1000 ($540 speakers at B&M retail) that can be upgraded to 5.1 for a couple hundred more (less if i find used or those R300s at Fry's/Outpost on sale like they are now).


I'll be sure to check back in and tell everyone what my impressions are once I get the AVR and have it all calibrated. (both with the included Onkyo mic and the Avia disc w/ Radio shack SPS meter)


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By "trims" are you referring to setting the volumes for each speaker or changing the distances for the speakers?



in a word...yes. setting the individual speaker volumes will have the most profound effect, though. what you want to do is set your master volume (MV) to a comfortably loud "reference" level. this is usually the -10dB setting on most receivers, though onkyo doesn't use this system. without adjusting the MV, set the volume levels of individual speakers to produce the same level of sound from your main position. this compensates for the various distances the speakers are from your ears.

*the best and most thoroughly accurate way to do this is with a test disc like Avia and an SPL meter*. at the very least, try to get there by ear. when your system is calibrated, you'll hear surround/subwoofer effects as they were intended by the film makers.




> Quote:
> Also, I am at work now, so I can't look at it, but I don't remember seeing a way to disable the crossover on the sub. Is there a switch for that?



i don't own a Bic sub, so i don't know offhand. if there is no "off" or "disable" setting, set the crossover on the sub to the maximum setting (probably around 200Hz), which will effectively produce the same result...allowing only the AVR to manage the bass.


----------



## onebxr

There are 2 sets of inputs on the Bic an analog and a digital input. If you connect the sub using the digital inputs this turns off the crossover on the sub and it is dependent on the crossover on the amp/receiver.


----------



## dmbftp

Just got my Bic today. Lots of switches and knobs. Just gotta get teh receiver in now and hook it all up.


----------



## Ron Temple

studdad,


I'd recommend getting your x-series fronts before you spring for surrounds. The AV123 speakers are very warm and smooth, if you pair them with bright surrounds, it may throw your system out of wack. You might look around for some discontinued Rocket ELTs, they are a small bookshelf, slightly larger than you're looking for, but should be a good match as surrounds for the x-series.


----------



## studdad

Ron, thanks again,,,,I think I will wait and see as you suggested. But...do you know of any small surrounds besides the rocket ELT that would be a decent match? I really don't know how warm and smooth any of these smaller surrounds would be.


----------



## studdad

Ron, or anyone else, have you heard of the Middys or the Aperion 422? Both are better quality smaller speakers, and have the ability to get down as low as 100 Hz. The Aperion website says they have a "warm" sound. Let me know if you know anything about them.


Thanks


----------



## superjett

I just got my Acoustic Research mains/center in and hooked up, setup my 2-10" Infinity car subs as a 8-ohm sub running off my old receiver via the sub out on my Onkyo 504 and an old set for the rears, very impressed with the AR's so far.


The kids are watching Toy Story in 5.1 right now!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron, or anyone else, have you heard of the Middys or the Aperion 422? Both are better quality smaller speakers, and have the ability to get down as low as 100 Hz. The Aperion website says they have a "warm" sound. Let me know if you know anything about them.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Sorry, though I've heard good things about the Aperions, I know nothing about them. If you're really stuck for space, ask about the Orb's or other small speaker on the Speaker forum. There use to be a sticky. Surrounds don't have to match, especially for HT, but there's no question a similar or matching system will sound better...sometimes much better depending on content. Since you're waiting patiently for the x's...and you're going to love them, see what you can (and WAF) can accomodate once they get setup.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superjett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got my Acoustic Research mains/center in and hooked up, setup my 2-10" Infinity car subs as a 8-ohm sub running off my old receiver via the sub out on my Onkyo 504 and an old set for the rears, very impressed with the AR's so far.
> 
> 
> The kids are watching Toy Story in 5.1 right now!



How do the AR's look in person? Give us an update on them when you play some music too?


----------



## superjett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How do the AR's look in person? Give us an update on them when you play some music too?



In person they look/feel great, very well put together, grills are perfectly flush. They also have a decent weight to them, but rapping on the sides could probably stand a brace inside. Not bad enough that I feel like opening them up either.


I'm not sure I'll get to listen to music any time soon--we have 3 kids under 6...


I should have my projector build finished this weekend so I'll get everything moved down to the theater and might be able to listen some after they are in bed.


Overall, I love them for the price paid.




Here's a question for everyone, which would you do to complete my theater sound? Mostly we'll be watching movies.


equipment I have:

Onkyo 504 7.1

Acoustic Research ARVP25 mains

Acoustic Research ARXP242C center

old Sony receiver powering 2 Infinity 10" car subs in sealed enclosures off sub out from Onkyo (will replace eventually but it works for now)

1 pair of KLH 'Twistable' satellites

1 pair of old Bose 301's (just using temporarily, these belong in the garage)


$20 option - buy another pair of KLH twistables on Ebay and use those for the rear channels


$100 option - buy 2 more pairs of ARVP25's for the surround/rear surround


$150 option - buy 1 pair of ARVP25's, use the current and new pairs for the rear channels and get a pair of 6.5" ARXP62's for the mains


I'm leaning toward the $20 option until we decide if we need lower frequency response out of the rears


----------



## mrgribbles

I don't know if you looked at this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=ARXP62 


This is a very in depth review and favorable comparison to B&W speakers.


----------



## iusb

Hi, experts,

I am total new to this HTIB/HTIB alternatives thing. I am debating should I get Onkyo 790 or just it's receiver and micra 6 as I saw micra 6 is on clearance in Target) since everyone said 790's speaker is not on par with its receiver? Also, is KEF F15 worth buying (target clearance as well) Thanks a lot.


----------



## ac556

I am looking for a good basic home theater system that will last me for a few years. Based on user reviews and some of the other posts on this thread, I have come up with getting a Onyko TX-SR604 and Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 speakers. I can get both of these at Amazon for around $650. The 17'X20' room I am putting the HDTV and HT in is already wired for 5.1 and I don't have a good place for the 2 additional surround speakers.


Can anyone give me some feedback on on this receiver and the speaker set? I really know almost nothing about audio and want to make the most of my new purchase.


Thanks!


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ac556* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am looking for a good basic home theater system that will last me for a few years. Based on user reviews and some of the other posts on this thread, I have come up with getting a Onyko TX-SR604 and Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 speakers. I can get both of these at Amazon for around $650. The 17'X20' room I am putting the HDTV and HT in is already wired for 5.1 and I don't have a good place for the 2 additional surround speakers.
> 
> 
> Can anyone give me some feedback on on this receiver and the speaker set? I really know almost nothing about audio and want to make the most of my new purchase.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The Polk system is treating me well, so far... and this is in an open room where only half of the space is used for HT. Is there any particular reason why you need HDMI right now? How many HDMI devices do you have? The 604 can cost around $200 more than the 504 and it only has HDMI _switching_, not upconversion. You can same some cash and get an HDMI switch for about $50-60. (for example )


----------



## jshigashi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Polk system is treating me well, so far... and this is in an open room where only half of the space is used for HT. Is there any particular reason why you need HDMI right now? How many HDMI devices do you have? The 604 can cost around $200 more than the 504 and it only has HDMI _switching_, not upconversion. You can same some cash and get an HDMI switch for about $50-60. (for example )



It has more than HDMI switching as you are saying, at least I believe that is the case. I am a total noob when it comes to home theater, but the 604 has the ability to play linear uncompressed PCM audio, which I believe is only possible via HDMI (Blu-ray/PS3 utilizes this format). Yres it doesn't upconvert, but in this case, there is no need to. I don't know... I am still trying to understand this stuff.


----------



## jshigashi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ac556* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am looking for a good basic home theater system that will last me for a few years. Based on user reviews and some of the other posts on this thread, I have come up with getting a Onyko TX-SR604 and Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 speakers. I can get both of these at Amazon for around $650. The 17'X20' room I am putting the HDTV and HT in is already wired for 5.1 and I don't have a good place for the 2 additional surround speakers.
> 
> 
> Can anyone give me some feedback on on this receiver and the speaker set? I really know almost nothing about audio and want to make the most of my new purchase.
> 
> 
> Thanks!




I was pretty much looking at the same stuff you are. If you can wait a bit (a month or so), this years model of the receiver you are looking at, the Onkyo TX-SR605... has many more HDMI features (HDMI 1.3, upconverting and decoding)... and is selling preordered at JR for $399 (not on website as it isn't out, you ave to call and order over telephone. Only $30 more than Amazon. (


(Thank you Mrgribbles who informed me of the same thing):


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jshigashi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was pretty much looking at the same stuff you are. If you can wait a bit (a month or so), this years model of the receiver you are looking at, the Onkyo TX-SR605... has many more HDMI features (HDMI 1.3, upconverting and decoding)... and is selling preordered at JR for $399 (not on website as it isn't out, you ave to call and order over telephone. Only $30 more than Amazon. (
> 
> 
> (Thank you Mrgribbles who informed me of the same thing):



Your welcome jshigashi, one thing additional to think about.


ac556, you have a good size room to work with. Both the 604 & 605 are 90 watt/channel rated (US rating system). If you have a fair amount of sound absorbing material in the room such as soft furniture, carpeting, draperies, etc. and you like your sound loud, 90 watts may be a stretch. One option that may help is to look for speakers with high efficiency (sensitivity)ratings, maybe something in the 90's. That will help offset the relatively low power output. Watts seem to cost money, so for some more bucks you can get the same features in a different receiver with more output. Hope this helps.


----------



## paulrbeers

If you can swing it, I'd go with the ARXP62's.


My setup:

Mains: ARXP62's

Center: ARXP242C

Surrounds: 3 - ARVP52


I can only run a 6.1 speaker setup due to the way the room is setup. I originally started out with a 5.1 system of all ARVP52's and the ARXP242C, but I felt I needed a bit more. Kind of felt like I had a lot of low thump from my sub, and really good mid to high, but just missing that mid-low range. Does that make sense? Partly that is due to the ARVP52's replaced 3-way JBL fronts with 6.5" woofers, so maybe I was used to having more low range from my fronts. If all you are going to do is Movies, then you can probably get away with the cheaper alternative, but for music I think you will be disappointed. I wouldn't buy 2 more sets of ARVP52's. Either go cheap with the KLH's with the idea of upgrading later or go all in.


FYI: There is a guy on Ebay that sells the ARXP62's for 80 dollars with about 25 bucks in shipping. This makes them about 20 dollars cheaper than JR since they are 100 bucks and 25 dollars shipping. mbquart I believe is his ID (and NO I am not him, I just bought my ARXP62's and ARXP242C's from him).


----------



## buzzy_

Don't know if this has been mentioned lately, but - Polk R50 $70 each + shipping - some suggest seeing if shipping is cheaper if you order 1 at a time or 2 at a time. Cherry only.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I spent the better part of the day today reading about surround speaker setups (hey work's been slow!), including 3 *amazing* presentations by Dr. Toole at Harmon International. All the links can be found in the HT Setup 101 thread linked in the first post. From what I gather 7.1 is not for everyone and it might behoove you to read up a little and decide whether it meets your needs based on listening preferences and room configuration.
> 
> 
> I feel much better knowing that, in my current room configuration, the rear surrounds probably won't add much and might even detract from the listening experience.
> 
> 
> Oh and as to the speaker-wire, check the updated links in the first post for details on gauge vs. run length.
> 
> 
> D



Any wire thicker than 16 gauge is a waste of $$$. Check crutchfeld.com for verification.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I cashed in my fishbowl full of change for over $300 so I sprung for an Oppo 970HD upscaling DVD player. Everything I've read points to this being the last DVD player I'll need until Blu-ray/HDDVD. I also got a pair of Ominmount 20.0 wall mounts for the rear speakers. I'm gonna go ghetto and put my fronts on top of my old speakers for now (gimme a couple paychecks and I'll be purchasing some nice front stands!) unless the sound is noticeably bad for some reason.
> 
> 
> All my cables are in the mail as well as the Harmony 550 universal remote. The speakers ship tomorrow and I pick up my TV on Thursday. The AVR is here already and running my old system right now. Oh and I found a cheap used copy of the Avia HT setup DVD.
> 
> 
> Hopefully by this time next week I'll be posting pics and rave reviews of my phat new system. :-D



Get the Oppo 970HD for $119.99 no tax and free shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/cart/aws-m...MergeCart=True


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I'm still an HT noob, but IMHO if you've already spent a couple grand on a projector, screen, receiver, installation, blah blah blah, an extra hundred or two for 7.1 seems like a good idea.
> 
> 
> I have never heard 7.1 myself but it doesn't seem like a priority investment to me. I think the novelty of 5.1 will last for a bit, until 7.1 source becomes more ubiquitous at least. :-D But like I said, in your case, I think 7.1 is a valid choice....if you're gonna do it, do it right I say.



The 7.1 will insure that you don't have to scrap your 5.1 two years from now.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't count on it. They gave me the two weeks answer as well... two weeks after they told me the exact same thing. For as much as I wanted em, I wasn't going to wait around for a month or two for AVS to retool it's Colombia warehouse.
> 
> 
> Ended up cancelling the order a few days ago and ordering a pair of more expensive Polk Rti6. Really a bit annoying that AVS is so off the ball on this.



AVS NEEDS TO TALK TO AMAZON.COM

THEY ARE VERY VERY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.


----------



## CrysDark

whoops....


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> whoops....



?


----------



## shindokie

i just recently bought the onkyo hts790 htib. Good for someone who knows something to know with HT. Well i was reading through this and decided that i will be switching the all the speakers and the sub of course. I want to start off by getting the front Athena AS-B1.2 or polk r150. Which would be better? I'm going to be getting the bic h-100. My room is small so it's about 12x 15. Any information would be good. Everybody has been very helpful to everybody else especially ron and g-stars( and all those i didn't say)


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i just recently bought the onkyo hts790 htib. Good for someone who knows something to know with HT. Well i was reading through this and decided that i will be switching the all the speakers and the sub of course. I want to start off by getting the front Athena AS-B1.2 or polk r150. Which would be better? I'm going to be getting the bic h-100.



i've got the athenas, and they were a big step up from the onkyo speakers in terms of imaging, detail, and clarity. sturdy construction, heavier, and a nice two-tone design (i mean the color of the speakers)...you can immediately tell the difference in quality over the onkyo speakers.


the polks are supposedly nice as well, though i've never heard them. ron is the resident polk expert, maybe he will chime in. i think they are comparable to the athenas in sound quality, though i think they will be different in tone.


the Bic H-100 is a good choice at that pricepoint, you will be amazed at how much of an improvement over the stock onkyo sub you'll see, once you have it dialed in correctly. you might also want to check out the X-sub from AV123, which is about the same price and also a good performer.


be sure to post your impressions and pics once you've made the upgrades.


----------



## shindokie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i've got the athenas, and they were a big step up from the onkyo speakers in terms of imaging, detail, and clarity. sturdy construction, heavier, and a nice two-tone design (i mean the color of the speakers)...you can immediately tell the difference in quality over the onkyo speakers.
> 
> 
> the polks are supposedly nice as well, though i've never heard them. ron is the resident polk expert, maybe he will chime in. i think they are comparable to the athenas in sound quality, though i think they will be different in tone.
> 
> 
> the Bic H-100 is a good choice at that pricepoint, you will be amazed at how much of an improvement over the stock onkyo sub you'll see, once you have it dialed in correctly. you might also want to check out the X-sub from AV123, which is about the same price and also a good performer.
> 
> 
> be sure to post your impressions and pics once you've made the upgrades.



I will definitely post pics. I might end up buying the speakers today. I was checking on amazon and they had for 147. Free shipping and no tax. Don't know if that's a good deal. They also had one for 99 with 20 from an unknow dealer on amazon. Well another question to add would be... is it okay if I like a polk center and the two front athena. I was reading that there might be a slight lose of sound, clarity.. Etc.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ron is the resident polk expert, maybe he will chime in. i think they are comparable to the athenas in sound quality, though i think they will be different in tone.



I've never heard the Athenas either, but a friend of mine owned them and also played with my R15s for awhile. The Athenas are brighter than the Polks, but because of that probably image better...also punchier bass. The Polks are nicely detailed at reasonable volumes. They play loud, but tend to lose focus when run hard. Both are great HT speakers...might give the nod to the Athenas for music, if coupled with the right source. The Polks being cheaper are a better fit for those looking for an extremely good value. The Athenas are a great value as well at their price point.


(Talkiing about the bookshelves here...also the R15s not the R150s which have a larger cabinet and are said to be an improvement).


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well another question to add would be... is it okay if I like a polk center and the two front athena. I was reading that there might be a slight lose of sound, clarity.. Etc.



no, you should stick with the same brand/series across the front. as sounds pan across the three speakers, the differences in tonal qualities might make things sound weird/off-balance. this is often referred to as "timbre matching".


audioadvisor is also a good source for athenas if you choose to go with them.


----------



## shindokie

Great thanks ron and star. Ill look into these. And ill most likely enfd up getting the athena. Since I'm mostly getting the athena fronts would would be a good center for it? Posted in the first page. Sorry for the questions.


I'm a pro in progress


----------



## Ron Temple

The Athenas are fine, but I think pairing them with HK or Marantz might cut some of the perceived brightness, especially if you have hardwood floors or reflective surfaces. Yamaha receivers, I've been told, can be a bad combination with bright speakers.


----------



## shindokie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Athenas are fine, but I think pairing them with HK or Marantz might cut some of the perceived brightness, especially if you have hardwood floors or reflective surfaces. Yamaha receivers, I've been told, can be a bad combination with bright speakers.



Ohh I have the onkyo 504 (ht-790) receiver and I'm on carpet. My set up for now is gaming and movies. I'm going to be buying the oppo soon as well. If money only grew out of trees :'(


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will definitely post pics. I might end up buying the speakers today. I was checking on amazon and they had for 147. Free shipping and no tax. Don't know if that's a good deal. They also had one for 99 with 20 from an unknow dealer on amazon. Well another question to add would be... is it okay if I like a polk center and the two front athena. I was reading that there might be a slight lose of sound, clarity.. Etc.



Check out pricgrabber.com for pricing


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since I'm mostly getting the athena fronts would would be a good center for it? Posted in the first page. Sorry for the questions.
> 
> 
> I'm a pro in progress



check out the athena AS-C1.2:

Athena AS-C1.2


----------



## shindokie

well cool. i was able to find the center and front for about 262 with shipping. I'm off to buy them. thanks g_star. iw ill set the mutha up and then post the pics. Don't make fun of the t.v i only work at a coffeeshop


----------



## jshigashi

I was pretty close to buying an HTIB, but instead of going that route, I think I am going to buy a speaker package and separate receiver. Just looking for some feedback on how this would be (to go along with my Samsung 1080P DLP tv (5087) and my PS3/blu-ray player). I don't like things really loud, but do like a nice clean sound... that being said, I am not an audiophile by any means and am a noob to home audio for the most part. Here's what I am looking at:


Onkyo 605 receiver (preordered of course).

Polk RM6750 speaker set, +2 extra speakers (same as the rest) to make it 7.1



Any feedback (negative or positive) would be appreciated. One thing I noticed is that the center and main speakers seem pretty small compared to a lot of set-ups out there, even for HTIB's. The mains, and all the surrounds are all the same speaker, and the center is only slightly larger. I know that size doens't always matter, but like I said... it seems like a lot of sets have bigger mains than the surrounds. I know the sub is small, but I am not a huge booming bass type of guy and I don't want to shake the house.


Right now the total is around $750. If anyone can meet close to that budget and feels they have better suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## flags

You should seriously consider the HT-S790. It is an excellent system made by a respected company. Quality all the way.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jshigashi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was pretty close to buying an HTIB, but instead of going that route, I think I am going to buy a speaker package and separate receiver. Just looking for some feedback on how this would be (to go along with my Samsung 1080P DLP tv (5087) and my PS3/blu-ray player). I don't like things really loud, but do like a nice clean sound... that being said, I am not an audiophile by any means and am a noob to home audio for the most part. Here's what I am looking at:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605 receiver (preordered of course).
> 
> Polk RM6750 speaker set, +2 extra speakers (same as the rest) to make it 7.1
> 
> 
> 
> Any feedback (negative or positive) would be appreciated. One thing I noticed is that the center and main speakers seem pretty small compared to a lot of set-ups out there, even for HTIB's. The mains, and all the surrounds are all the same speaker, and the center is only slightly larger. I know that size doens't always matter, but like I said... it seems like a lot of sets have bigger mains than the surrounds. I know the sub is small, but I am not a huge booming bass type of guy and I don't want to shake the house.
> 
> 
> Right now the total is around $750. If anyone can meet close to that budget and feels they have better suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.



If you like satelites the RMs are good, better as you move up the chain to the 10s and 20s, but size does matter. Cabinet volume and build design, as well as, driver/tweeter/crossover plays a large part in how the midrange and mid-bass sounds. A good sub that plays well to 120hz can alleviate this. I'm not trying to discourage, just explain that you'll get more with a bookshelf speaker with a matching center...especially in the front soundstage. That being said, those Polks will outperform the Onkyo by a wide margin (sorry flags







)


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you like satelites the RMs are good, better as you move up the chain to the 10s and 20s, but size does matter. Cabinet volume and build design, as well as, driver/tweeter/crossover plays a large part in how the midrange and mid-bass sounds. A good sub that plays well to 120hz can alleviate this. I'm not trying to discourage, just explain that you'll get more with a bookshelf speaker with a matching center...especially in the front soundstage. That being said, those Polks will outperform the Onkyo by a wide margin (sorry flags
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Anything will outperform anything if you spend enough money.


----------



## jshigashi

Thanks for the feedback. (To Flags) Originally, I was looking at the Onkyo 790 HTIB, but I wanted a receiver with HDMI connections to optimize the sound for blu-ray's and games that have PCM sound.



(To Ron Temple) - Ya, I figured just by looking that the centers, and main's were a bit weak (and surrounds for that matter). That being said, the set was incredibly reasonable, so I went for it. And I like satellite's sound (clean like i was talking about). Maybe I'll upgrade the front speakers at a later time, and possibly even the surrounds later... but I think this will make me happy for the time being. I think that I am satisfied with getting a solid receiver that wont' be obsolete in a year, knowing that I can always upgrade my speakers. It seems like a good starting point for me. I'm pulling the trigger at day's end, unless someone gives me some red flags, or offers me a definite upgrade along those budget lines (Recevier is $400, looking to stay in the $800 total budget.... so I need 7 speakers and sub for $400).


----------



## superjett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jshigashi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pulling the trigger at day's end, unless someone gives me some red flags, or offers me a definite upgrade along those budget lines (Recevier is $400, looking to stay in the $800 total budget.... so I need 7 speakers and sub for $400).



mains:

Acoustic Research ARXP62 $100 (or $80 on Ebay new)


center:

Acoustic Research ARXP242C $60


surrounds/rears:

Acoustic Research ARVP25 $100 (for 2 pairs)


sub:

Dayton 10" $124


Add shipping on some of them (some are free shipping currently) and you're right around $400 with 6.5" fronts, 5.25" surrounds, 4" center and 10" sub.


I have the ARVP25 and center currently as my fronts, love them, and plan on move the 25's to the rear and getting some 62's for the front.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should seriously consider the HT-S790. It is an excellent system made by a respected company. Quality all the way.



please stop spamming this thread with suggestions for an HTIB. take the discussions of the 790 to its own dedicated thread.

*i know its hard for you, but try to understand this*: the point of this thread is to discuss alternatives to HTIB, b/c believe it or not, the HTS-790 isn't the answer for everyone.


----------



## shindokie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> please stop spamming this thread with suggestions for an HTIB. take the discussions of the 790 to its own dedicated thread.
> 
> *i know its hard for you, but try to understand this*: the point of this thread is to discuss alternatives to HTIB, b/c believe it or not, the HTS-790 isn't the answer for everyone.



I think he is just trying to get to you star. Be the better man and ignore him. You already know way more then him because all he knows is the ht_s790.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Got my Polk R300's and the CSi25 this weekend. Hooked them up and ran the THX optimizer just to get a ballpark and I am really impressed. Got the mains,surrounds and center for $348.00 shipped. Now I have to figure out which receiver to match them to. Any ideas? I see the Onkyo 504 is pretty cheap but is it a good receiver? I have a Sony 5.1 rec. that came in a HTiB and it's a few years old. I could defintely use the component switching but I wonder if the sound quality will improve.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got my Polk R300's and the CSi25 this weekend. Hooked them up and ran the THX optimizer just to get a ballpark and I am really impressed. Got the mains,surrounds and center for $348.00 shipped. Now I have to figure out which receiver to match them to. Any ideas? I see the Onkyo 504 is pretty cheap but is it a good receiver? I have a Sony 5.1 rec. that came in a HTiB and it's a few years old. I could defintely use the component switching but I wonder if the sound quality will improve.



You cannot go wrong with Onkyo.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got my Polk R300's and the CSi25 this weekend. Hooked them up and ran the THX optimizer just to get a ballpark and I am really impressed. Got the mains,surrounds and center for $348.00 shipped. Now I have to figure out which receiver to match them to. Any ideas? I see the Onkyo 504 is pretty cheap but is it a good receiver? I have a Sony 5.1 rec. that came in a HTiB and it's a few years old. I could defintely use the component switching but I wonder if the sound quality will improve.



The Onks fine, also the HK refurbs offer more tweakability and better sound quality, IMO. You can probably score a 235 or 240 for ~ the same $ as the Onk.


----------



## dbrowdy

Spam and advertising are against forum rules. The more people that report posts like the one above, the more likely we are to be relieved of their presence in the future. I hate to say it, but this individual has been asked to stop very politely on many occasions. I suggest people use the little "Report Post" button and maybe he will stop plugging O* every hour on the hour.


On a related note, I wonder how much he gets paid for each post? Wonder if I can get a similar gig...seems like easy money if you don't mind being despised.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Spam and advertising are against forum rules. The more people that report posts like the one above, the more likely we are to be relieved of their presence in the future. I hate to say it, but this individual has been asked to stop very politely on many occasions. I suggest people use the little "Report Post" button and maybe he will stop plugging O* every hour on the hour.
> 
> 
> On a related note, I wonder how much he gets paid for each post? Wonder if I can get a similar gig...seems like easy money if you don't mind being despised.



Your big mouth is against my rules!


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Onks fine, also the HK refurbs offer more tweakability and better sound quality, IMO. You can probably score a 235 or 240 for ~ the same $ as the Onk.



I opted for a Harmon Kardon AVR340. I am amazed at how much this thing can do and I only have it hooked up for stereo atm. The 340 is gonna cost a little more than the O* 504 but the 235 or 240 that Ron mentioned should be around the same price. On paper, the HK has a ton of functionality and subjectively, I find the HK to be a little less...cheap feeling than the O*.


My speakers will be coming in this week (they're in transit finally!) and I'll be posting more subjective information on the HK and the SVS speakers then.







(Excited!)


----------



## Kysersose

Flags has been suspended for 2 months. He was warned previously.


Next one will be permanent.


Kyser


----------



## jerkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Flags has been given some time off with a warning that the next suspension will be permanent.
> 
> 
> Kyser



Thats what you said last time in this quote from April 12 in this thread. How many chances do you get on this board?


----------



## shindokie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerkin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thats what you said last time. How many chances do you get on this board?



Last time was for 2 weeks if I remember. I guess its the whole 3 strikes your out thing. Either way 2 months of vacation from flags isn't to bad.


----------



## Kysersose




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerkin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thats what you said last time in this quote from April 12 in this thread. How many chances do you get on this board?



I decided to give him one last chance. If after 2 months he hasn't learned anything... then he's gone for good.


You can quote me on that one.


That will be strike 3.


Now lets get back on topic.


Kyser


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I decided to give him one last chance. If after 2 months he hasn't learned anything... then he's gone for good.
> 
> 
> You can quote me on that one.
> 
> 
> That will be strike 3.
> 
> 
> Now lets get back on topic.
> 
> 
> Kyser



thanks for stepping in, your help is appreciated.


----------



## Ron Temple

Frankly, the guy (I assume) is very young and wants attention. He's got it at the cost of brickwall impact...best to be ignored. He won't be with us again, for very long anyway.


----------



## shindokie

thats good then. Hey star and ron. why don't you guys post pics of your set up? I'll be taking mine when i get them. Also i just finally was able to get to hear the sound from the onkyo speakers. they sound good to me but what do i know. I have only heard these and these other ones. If the athena's sound way better like you said star i will most likely have to get to know the neighbors


----------



## Ron Temple

Ok, this is my system 7 months ago...since added, a Carver TFM 35 2 channel amp (250wpc @ 8ohms, 400 wpc @ 4 ohms) to drive my fronts, the amp shown an Audiosource Amp/One now bridged to 200wpc drives my center (CSi3), the HK drives the surrounds (Mordaunt-Shorts). I've also moved the SVS 20-39+ out of the corner behind behind my right front. In the corner is a where the tube formerly was is DIY sub project, consisting of a friends custom box, GR 12" PR, a Rythmic 350 plate amp and an SVS 12.2 driver. With both subs I get extremely flat bass from 16-120hz. The pictures don't reflect the room with the wall hangings back on...looks better now. The Polk SDAs are not supposed to be corner loaded as they throw a 180 degree plus soundstage with stereo content and should be parallel to a wall with corner reinforcement (3'), but until I can move them into my living room, that's all I've got.






































The system as described is a work in progress...sounds great and is my 3rd in 3 years.


First) Onkyo 770 ~ $500


Second) HK 235, Polk R50, CSi3, R15s...various subs ~ $800


Third)

It's not fair to compare prices, it's all used except for the SVS sub. I've gotten great deals and I doubt I could buy anything comparable new for less than $10K (that meets my current standards). I might be into this hobby for $2500 (audio), give or take.


It's not about who spends the most or anything other than taking this hobby to your comfort level and maximizing your value. If you stick with it you'll hear some great gear, find great deals, sell off the stuff you want to replace, aggravate the hell out of WAF, but that's easy for me







, I've got the secret.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Onks fine, also the HK refurbs offer more tweakability and better sound quality, IMO. You can probably score a 235 or 240 for ~ the same $ as the Onk.



Bruce Wayne, you may wish to look at receivers with a watts per channel rating a bit higher. Your center channel is 4 ohm impedance which effectively takes 2x the power of your fronts. I think the referenced hks are in the 60 watt range, you would probably want something in the 130 w area or so.


----------



## Bruce Wayne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bruce Wayne, you may wish to look at receivers with a watts per channel rating a bit higher. Your center channel is 4 ohm impedance which effectively takes 2x the power of your fronts. I think the referenced hks are in the 60 watt range, you would probably want something in the 130 w area or so.




I think that works to the receivers benefit, less ohms means less power will do the same thing as if it were a 120 watt rec. pushing 8 ohm speakers. Am I wrong in this?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not about who spends the most or anything other than taking this hobby to your comfort level and maximizing your value.



agree 100%, maximizing value for dollar spent is key for most of us here, who are on relatively limited budgets.


nice pics ron, i'll try to get some of mine up at some point. i bet those polks with the carver amp sound really sweet.


----------



## mrgribbles

Yes you are wrong on this. Here's a quote from: http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/spkr.htm 


Just one of many on the same subject.


"4 ohm speakers place a significantly heavier demand on power amplifiers as compared to 8 ohm speakers. Because of their lower impedance, twice as much current will flow through a 4 ohm speaker (as compared to an 8 ohm speaker) for a given volume control setting (assuming the amp can keep up). This translates to amplifiers getting significantly hotter (and heat is among the top enemies of electronic devices!)."


There's nothing at all wrong with 4 ohm speakers. There are arguments that due to the heavier field density they are more responsive. We can all get very technical and make arguments that OK it takes more power but I'm getting more sound! At certain levels this is somewhat true, but its not something I'm comfortable with unless I have the juice to back it up. Don't forget that the rating is nominal. Its conceivable that at certain frequencies the 4 could go into the 1s. Mis-matched impedances ie: 8s & 4s present other complications as the impedances rise and fall out of sync (all differing speakers will do this to greater or lesser degrees) and therefore volume level with each other.


I'm not telling you its a bad thing, just something to take into consideration as you make choices.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrgribbles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bruce Wayne, you may wish to look at receivers with a watts per channel rating a bit higher. Your center channel is 4 ohm impedance which effectively takes 2x the power of your fronts. I think the referenced hks are in the 60 watt range, you would probably want something in the 130 w area or so.



You're probably right on this, HOWEVER, everything I've read seems to say that HK is a much more honest wattage rating than others. A "60W" HK will sound the same as a "100W" Onkyo or some such. I don't know much about impedance and stuff like that, just food for thought.


D


----------



## Bruce Wayne

I do not see many people in here supporting Denon, is there a reason for this? I have read some great reviews on some of their entry level stuff. I just want to get the best bang for my buck, I am not partial to one manufacturer or the other, just want to get the best for my money.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do not see many people in here supporting Denon, is there a reason for this? I have read some great reviews on some of their entry level stuff. I just want to get the best bang for my buck, I am not partial to one manufacturer or the other, just want to get the best for my money.



they make some truly great and well-repsected receivers, but tend to be a bit above the price range for the budget crowd, which is why they probably aren't discussed as much. same goes for marantz and a few others.


if i had the money to spend on a top receiver, a denon would absolutely be on my short list.


----------



## Ron Temple

Polk says the CSi25 is a 4 ohm nominal, but 8 ohm compatable speaker. I have no idea why this speaker dips down so low, but on Club Polk it's been discussed. Their CS states that it will work well with any conventional receiver. My son has one running off a low end Yamaha. The HKs will be fine driving it. However, I wouldn't recommend driving a full 5 or 7 speaker setup rated at 4 ohms with low end receivers. They'll heat up and go into protection. Even mid to high end receivers that can handle the load are outperformed by dedicated amps.


Denon, Pio, Marantz, Yamaha and Onkyo all make fine receivers. HK and Marantz are on the warm side, Denon and Onk more neutral sounding and Pio and Yamaha sounding a bit bright to my ear. I'm not an EE, but to my ear, the HK offers more dynamic range than the Onk 5xx series, punchier bass and overall better detail. Probably due to larger caps and a heavier power supply in the amp section. The 235 weighs 33lbs vs 21lbs with the Onk.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Thanks Ron and G, that helps alot. I am running the CSi25 for a center and the R300 for my mains and surrounds. The only thing I have noticed is my mids seem a bit muffled. This could be the 16 guage wire I'm running, the receivers shortcomings or even room dynamics. I won't know until I go through the process of upgradation (elimination of old components) But all in all I am very pleased with the POLKS. Being a forum junky, I am already trying to find a thread on speaker mods, I figure if I can tweak the polks a bit with a audiofile grade crossover, and some more acoustifill I may be able to get the exact sound I'm looking for on the cheap.


----------



## Mikeoz

Thanks Ron, good to know.


I just ordered a set of R50's and a csi25, and was wondering why the csi25/csr/csm are 4 ohm rather than 8ohm, but I guess it's largely a non-issue.


The other question I have is if the H100 sub would be "too much" for a bedroom setup vs. say the av123. I understand the H100 has many adjustments, but I would imagine the av123 would provide plenty of oomph. I read through this thread and it seems that the H100 has better low freq response and definetly is louder (it's a 12" vs. 8" woofer), so I'm assuming it has a much nicer/stronger low end..?


I guess the overall size is also a concern and I'll have to look at their measurements to see how much space I have (the bedroom is ~15'x14'), but I was curious how people really felt about the two. I'm guessing that the H100 would probably sound better overall (I'm a fan of big woofer's for low freq response), but the size of the enclosure is probably considerably larger as well.. Thanks!


----------



## brianjen13

I just set up my system:

Onkyo 504

H100

R150

CSi25

The sound is incredible. The sub's tone is great. I was not disappointed at all with this sub. I only have my reciever at the 30 level and the sub at 4.5. I know if I turn the sub to 6-7 that it will completely shake the house. This is just my initial setup. I haven't really messed with settings to much. The one thing I messed around with was crossover. I left it at 100hz. I know that alot of you guys set yours at 60-80hz. It's probably just my room but at that crossover there seems to be some mids missing. If you would have some R300, that would be perfect with this setup. I had to play aropund just a little to get that low midrange to sound right. The Polks have a really good sound. I know there are beter ones out there, but I payed$125 w/ the CSi25. You can't touch a speaker that sounds like this under ,probably, $250.

Just so you guys know I was at my friends house and he has a Onkyo 790. There is no comparision between these two systems. I know that I payed $500 vs. $300(for a refurb 790) and that my system is 3.1 instead of his 7.1, but I was seriously blown away by my system. His- it was more like "This doesn't sound to bad." Mine is was like




























period

The onkyo sub was at 10. The H100 would probably be at 2-3 to match. I am not joking. And the Onkyo sub does not have the tone that the H100 has.

Brian


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, good to know.
> 
> 
> The other question I have is if the H100 sub would be "too much" for a bedroom setup vs. say the av123. I understand the H100 has many adjustments, but I would imagine the av123 would provide plenty of oomph. I read through this thread and it seems that the H100 has better low freq response and definetly is louder (it's a 12" vs. 8" woofer), so I'm assuming it has a much nicer/stronger low end..?
> 
> 
> I guess the overall size is also a concern and I'll have to look at their measurements to see how much space I have (the bedroom is ~15'x14'), but I was curious how people really felt about the two. I'm guessing that the H100 would probably sound better overall (I'm a fan of big woofer's for low freq response), but the size of the enclosure is probably considerably larger as well.. Thanks!



I haven't heard the x-sub, but Craigsub did a comparison. Above 30hz the output actually favors the 8" sub with superior definition and punch. I've heard the Bic in home and I know it performs very well, so for your situation, I'd think the AV123 sub is the better solution. It's a nice unit. Neither sub will get you the gut wrenching deep stuff. You have to spend a bit more than twice their price to get that.


----------



## Mikeoz

I apologize if this has been discussed, but what is the big difference between the HK AVR235/AVR240? I must admit that the Onkyo SR504 is probably the best bang for the buck, but I have always preferred the more warm tone of HK receivers.


Is the AVR240 the new model of the AVR235? The HK receiver is quite a bit more but the added adjustability of the crossovers and better SQ might justify the extra price..


One other thing.. it's been mentioned that the AVR235 can be found for the same price as the Onkyo SR504? Where did you guys purchase from? The Onkyo is avail for a very good price now, and the AVR240 looks to be roughly twice the price. Any input is greatly appreciated with this decision. Is Onkyo made by Sony, I thought I read that somewhere? I think Sony receivers are solid but tend to be a little on the bright side. Thanks.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron and G, that helps alot. I am running the CSi25 for a center and the R300 for my mains and surrounds. The only thing I have noticed is my mids seem a bit muffled. This could be the 16 guage wire I'm running, the receivers shortcomings or even room dynamics. I won't know until I go through the process of upgradation (elimination of old components) But all in all I am very pleased with the POLKS. Being a forum junky, I am already trying to find a thread on speaker mods, I figure if I can tweak the polks a bit with a audiofile grade crossover, and some more acoustifill I may be able to get the exact sound I'm looking for on the cheap.



Play with speaker placement and toe them in toward the sweetspot, that should sharpen the imaging. 16g wire is fine for fairly short runs. Join Club Polk...you'll get some good advice. Great forum, btw, policed by it's veteran members. Most modders are upgrading the vintage speaker crossovers, but you'll get good advice and find out a ton about Polk speakers (and others), amplfication and tweaks.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron and G, that helps alot. I am running the CSi25 for a center and the R300 for my mains and surrounds. The only thing I have noticed is my mids seem a bit muffled. This could be the 16 guage wire I'm running, the receivers shortcomings or even room dynamics. I won't know until I go through the process of upgradation (elimination of old components) But all in all I am very pleased with the POLKS. Being a forum junky, I am already trying to find a thread on speaker mods, I figure if I can tweak the polks a bit with a audiofile grade crossover, and some more acoustifill I may be able to get the exact sound I'm looking for on the cheap.



There are quite a few places, Ebay, etc. that sell xovers and xover kits. The things to watch for are the capacitors types - film, etc and whether or not they are using high grade coils (chokes). Some will use coils instead of caps and or resistors, and thats a good thing if you know what you're doing. Good luck, this is the fun part.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I apologize if this has been discussed, but what is the big difference between the HK AVR235/AVR240? I must admit that the Onkyo SR504 is probably the best bang for the buck, but I have always preferred the more warm tone of HK receivers.
> 
> 
> Is the AVR240 the new model of the AVR235? The HK receiver is quite a bit more but the added adjustability of the crossovers and better SQ might justify the extra price..
> 
> 
> One other thing.. it's been mentioned that the AVR235 can be found for the same price as the Onkyo SR504? Where did you guys purchase from? The Onkyo is avail for a very good price now, and the AVR240 looks to be roughly twice the price. Any input is greatly appreciated with this decision. Is Onkyo made by Sony, I thought I read that somewhere? I think Sony receivers are solid but tend to be a little on the bright side. Thanks.



You're right that the 240 is the newer version of the 235. You're also right that Sony makes Onkyo. For differences in the HK models, I found the HK site to be very helpful...they don't hide the info on their older models, it's still easy to find.


I got my HK off ebay from Harmon Direct. It's a refurb but it comes with the same FULL 1 year warranty that any new HK does. I paid $300 for mine shipped (AVR 340). The 240 is gonna run you a bunch less. HK also has a refurb site that sells direct (same stuff) but is generally a LOT more than the ebay stuff.


D


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're right that the 240 is the newer version of the 235. You're also right that Sony makes Onkyo. For differences in the HK models, I found the HK site to be very helpful...they don't hide the info on their older models, it's still easy to find.
> 
> 
> I got my HK off ebay from Harmon Direct. It's a refurb but it comes with the same FULL 1 year warranty that any new HK does. I paid $300 for mine shipped (AVR 340). The 240 is gonna run you a bunch less. HK also has a refurb site that sells direct (same stuff) but is generally a LOT more than the ebay stuff.
> 
> 
> D



Mike,


Dan's correct...if you're patient you can score a refurb 235 or 240(for slightly more) by winning one of HK Direct's 24hr auctions. They have 6 or 8 per day going with various models. I've had 2 with no blemish, just been through QC twice







...full 2 year warranty. If anything goes wrong they just give you an RMA and send you a new (refurb) one. I know that some 235s have gone for


----------



## Mikeoz

Thanks for the heads up guys. It took a little bit of searching but finally found the ebay seller.







I see that he now has some "best offer" and buy it now listings so I guess it doesn't hurt to throw in a bid for ~$200 for a 240. Thanks.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up guys. It took a little bit of searching but finally found the ebay seller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see that he now has some "best offer" and buy it now listings so I guess it doesn't hurt to throw in a bid for ~$200 for a 240. Thanks.



The seller is HK, so I guess they are trying to price protect...never hurts to go low


----------



## afrogt

Make sure you're going to the Harman Kardon Direct store on e-bay to get the full 2 year warranty. While looking at completed listings from April 26-30 the HK 235 has gone between $142-190, so there are definitely good deals out there.


----------



## Kanucat

I'm pretty new to this, but right now I'm planning on getting a 3.1 system and upgrading later -- Was hoping to get some feedback on some of the following front speakers


- Polk R300s

- T90EBs (Euro branded Polk Monitor 60s?)

- AV123 X-SLS


Also, if going with one of the Polk setups, which center speaker would be preferable:

- Polk CS1

- Polk CSi3


I understand this is all subjective, but I'd appreciate some input from those of you with more experence. My primary use for the speakers will be for watching movies, not so much for music.


For the sub, I'm probably looking at the Bic H100 unless I can talk myself into something like the SVS PB10-NSD which might be a good possibility... unfortunately I'm not the best when it comes to willpower.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pretty new to this, but right now I'm planning on getting a 3.1 system and upgrading later -- Was hoping to get some feedback on some of the following front speakers
> 
> 
> - Polk R300s
> 
> - T90EBs (Euro branded Polk Monitor 60s?)
> 
> - AV123 X-SLS
> 
> 
> Also, if going with one of the Polk setups, which center speaker would be preferable:
> 
> - Polk CS1
> 
> - Polk CSi3
> 
> 
> I understand this is all subjective, but I'd appreciate some input from those of you with more experence. My primary use for the speakers will be for watching movies, not so much for music.
> 
> 
> For the sub, I'm probably looking at the Bic H100 unless I can talk myself into something like the SVS PB10-NSD which might be a good possibility... unfortunately I'm not the best when it comes to willpower.



Welcome Kanucat,


The T90EBs are Euro branded Monitor 60s and quite a bit better than the R300s, probably the best all round current Monitor speaker. CS1 or 2 will be the matching center, the CSi3 is a notch brighter (great for dialog). The x-series is a good question. You'll sacrifice some oomph vs. the floorstander, but it's a superior music first speaker, warmer than either Polk without sacrificing any detail. All these speakers will do better with a sub...the Bic or x-sub will be fine in a small to medium sized room (


----------



## shindokie

Hey guys. I've been looking at deals for the Athena as-b/c1.2 front and center speakers. I found what seems to be a pretty solid deal. 250 all together with shipping. I'm trying to make sure this is good or continue looking for something cheaper. I feel like a nuisance


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys. I've been looking at deals for the Athena as-b/c1.2 front and center speakers. I found what seems to be a pretty solid deal. 250 all together with shipping. I'm trying to make sure this is good or continue looking for something cheaper. I feel like a nuisance



that's a pretty good deal. i got the older audition series on cloesout for $220, but i haven't seen a deal that good since. if you're mind is made up on athenas, i don't think you'll do much better for new gear.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just so you guys know I was at my friends house and he has a Onkyo 790. There is no comparision between these two systems. I know that I payed $500 vs. $300(for a refurb 790) and that my system is 3.1 instead of his 7.1, but I was seriously blown away by my system. His- it was more like "This doesn't sound to bad." Mine is was like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> period
> 
> The onkyo sub was at 10. The H100 would probably be at 2-3 to match. I am not joking. And the Onkyo sub does not have the tone that the H100 has.
> 
> Brian



the difference really can be amazing when you hear it firsthand. for the extra $200, it sounds like you're getting at least 10x the performance.











good luck and enjoy your new HT.


----------



## magicpie9882

Just wanted to add my thanks to everyone on here for a great thread. As many others have said, I originally planned to buy a HTIB but ended up putting my own system together. The last piece arrived yesterday, and I couldn't be happier. I stayed up a little too late last night playing random scenes from DVD's (mainly Star Wars) just to marvel at the effects and the sound. The experience with a 5.1 system (I was using solely my TV speakers before) is just amazing. I can't wait to have a little more cash and a nicer place (I rent an apt now) to get some really nice components. I'll try to send pictures when I have a chance, but here is a list of what I went with:


Receiver - Onkyo 504 ($169 from Amazon)

Speakers - Velodyne CHT Front Row System ($199 from Velodyne)

Sub - Dayton Sub-100 ($125 from Parts Express)


I lucked out and got free shipping on all of these. For the components alone, the price comes out to just under $500 (my target price). Once you add in the cost of speaker stands, speaker wire, SPL meter, and various other little things, I think the total will be more like $700-750. At least I shouldn't have to buy most of the little things again!


I still haven't tweaked everything, but I am already extremely happy with my purchase. I certainly couldn't have put this together without everyone's help, so thanks again!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the difference really can be amazing when you hear it firsthand. for the extra $200, it sounds like you're getting at least 10x the performance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good luck and enjoy your new HT.



Not surprised, the first time I hooked R30s into my Onkyo system I was pretty amazed. On the sub, it will really pay off overall if you calibrate with an RS SPL meter. Generally, to get clean/blended bass you very rarely need to go above 0 on the AVR and a 1/3 to 1/2 on the gain on the sub. The gain on the sub is not volume, it's an attenuator for the signal, just like the trim on the receiver. You want the sub to get enough signal from the AVR and enough output (gain) from the sub to balance with your front speakers. A nice sounding sub will only be noticed when off for music and make you **** your pants for HT


----------



## shindokie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not surprised, the first time I hooked R30s into my Onkyo system I was pretty amazed. On the sub, it will really pay off overall if you calibrate with an RS SPL meter. Generally, to get clean/blended bass you very rarely need to go above 0 on the AVR and a 1/3 to 1/2 on the gain on the sub. The gain on the sub is not volume, it's an attenuator for the signal, just like the trim on the receiver. You want the sub to get enough signal from the AVR and enough output (gain) from the sub to balance with your front speakers. A nice sounding sub will only be noticed when off for music and make you **** your pants for HT



I've been reading about a certain disc and the meter from you guys. Where could I find them and what do they do? Is it some form of calibrator that allows a perfect sync with the front and center with the sub?


----------



## studdad

Hey Guys,,,,no, i dont have my speakers yet. But hopefully it will be soon. I am still considering the Aperion 422's for the surround speakers. They are 8 ohms. My Yamaha receiver puts out 90wpc (661). I was talking with an Aperion tech regarding speaker wire, and here is the email he sent to me in that regard (I have to run 85 feet to each rear speaker):


"There are many different types of wire on the market. The rule of thumb is that

you always want to increase the quality of your wire for longer cable runs. As

far as the actual guage of the wire, this is not as important as the quality of

the cable. The most important thing is that you purchase speaker wire that is

UL and CL3 approved, otherwise it is not suitable for wiring through walls,

crawlspaces, etc. Here are some of my recommendations: Audio Quest Flex 14/2,

this is a great wire for your application. It is not a 12g but rather a 14g.

But, because it is a high quality of copper, this actually works better than

most inexpensive 12g wire out there and it has a slightly smaller profile. If

you want an even better connection you can bump up to a 4-conductor wire and

just twist them together at the ends. This 4-conductor wire is usually optimal

to run to volume controls in the wall and to speakers that have bi-wire

capability (ours and Thiel for instance don't). I also like the Monster Cable Standard 14/2 speaker wire as well. These wires are very reasonable

for about a buck thirty eight or so a foot.


Furthermore, in regards to your application, it's not a matter of the speakers

not working or dropped out signal or anything like that, it's more a matter of

your Yamaha receiver is working just a little harder, creating a little more

heat, and putting out a tiny bit more distortion as a result of the long cable

runs on a smaller guage or lower quality wire for instance. With a very high

quality copper or silver in the instance of the higher end Audio Quest, the

electrons are happy and the Yamaha receiver is happy and that creates a synergy

between all of the components and it sounds real real nice.


If you have any further questions regarding which wire to buy, don't hesitate to

give me an email."


Ok, I will be running the wire behind the baseboard, not through walls. But anyway, I don't think they sell the wire, so I don't think they have a vested interest, but I still feel this guy is feeding me a line of bull. Is the $1.38/ft. wire necessary for the speaker to reach its full potential at this run length, or will something else, i.e. Beldon 12g for example, be just as good at a much lower cost? (the speaker wire would cost me more than the speakers if I buy the wire he suggests).


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shindokie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been reading about a certain disc and the meter from you guys. Where could I find them and what do they do? Is it some form of calibrator that allows a perfect sync with the front and center with the sub?



There's a couple of DVDs (Digital Video Essentials, or DVE, and the AVIA guide DVD) that have test tones for each speaker. The meter allows you to place it in your listening spot. It then measures each test tone. You then adjust the levels on the speaker so all the test tones register the same level in the listening spot.


Then you'll have all the speakers primed for even sound across the board.


The discs are available online and probably in places like BestBuy, for around $20, and they have test patterns for video and instructions on other aspects of home theater. A pretty good deal. The meters are available at RadioShack or eBay.


----------



## Mikeoz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure you're going to the Harman Kardon Direct store on e-bay to get the full 2 year warranty. While looking at completed listings from April 26-30 the HK 235 has gone between $142-190, so there are definitely good deals out there.



I made an offer for $185 and it was declined so I'm debating buying a new AVR240.. Newegg sells them brand new for $300, and I'm wondering if it's worth the extra $ over an AVR235. Are there any notable differences between the 235 and 240? I'm all for paying a reasonable price for a 235, but I wonder if it's worth ponying up just a little more for a brand new 240.







Is the 240 any different than a 235?


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I made an offer for $185 and it was declined so I'm debating buying a new AVR240.. Newegg sells them brand new for $300, and I'm wondering if it's worth the extra $ over an AVR235. Are there any notable differences between the 235 and 240? I'm all for paying a reasonable price for a 235, but I wonder if it's worth ponying up just a little more for a brand new 240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the 240 any different than a 235?



Err...I got a 340 for $300 shipped from eBay. I can't see buying a model lower for the same price. In fact, I'm sure I could have gotten it cheaper if I'd been a little more patient. I know it's hard (seriously!), but I'd try to be patient and win an auction.


Studdad, based on MY research, I think that guy is full of crap. Additionally, I'd be less inclined to trust someone who uses very big technical words and then uses stuff like "With a very high quality copper... the electrons are happy and the Yamaha receiver is happy and that creates a synergy..." Oh, happy electrons make it sound better? I hadn't thought to ask them if they were happy!

















D


----------



## afrogt

The only major difference between the 235 and 240 is the iPod bridge. If you have no need for that, get the 235 for much less.


----------



## Ron Temple

Wire and cable (interconnects) are a long standing argument within the community. Many think expensive solutions do make a difference, but I don't think you should spend a bunch of time or money at this stage. Get quality 14 or 12g wire for a reasonable price, it will be fine. I may experiment shortly on ICs with some silver cable, but I'm not paying before I try. If they make a difference, I'll let you know.


85' is a looonnnng run.


----------



## blobula

Concerning Polk speakers. What is the difference between a speaker like the RTi8 vs. the Monitor 70 speakers? Both are floor standing and pretty close in price. I was just curious what the difference between the Rti series and Monitor series might be.


----------



## Kanucat

Looking for a little more input.


A friend of mine was showing me some Behringer stuff. Apparently he's a big fan, but I haven't heard them mentioned here before.


sub:

TRUTH B2092A - 360 watt, dual 8" drivers. Runs about $230.
http://www.behringer.com/B2092A/index.cfm?lang=ENG 


speakers:

TRUTH B2031P
http://www.behringer.com/B2031P/index.cfm?lang=ENG 


What do you think?


----------



## Bruce Wayne

HAHAHAH, You know te 16 guage speaker wire I thought I was using, well, turns out it's actually 22 GUAGE!!!!! Holy speaker starvation Boy Wonder, I've got to get some new wire. What do you guys suggest for 30 - 40 foot runs?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Concerning Polk speakers. What is the difference between a speaker like the RTi8 vs. the Monitor 70 speakers? Both are floor standing and pretty close in price. I was just curious what the difference between the Rti series and Monitor series might be.



The RTi line uses higher quality drivers, tweeters and crossover(s), more internal bracing and is a step up from the M line. The M70s are the top of the line for Ms, a ton of drivers and has better bass response than the RTi8s. The dual driver 8, many consider the sweetspot of the RTis used with a sub. Very linear from top to midbass, crystal clear detail (sometimes too much if not paired with the right source or amplification). I played with them for a month and liked them alot. The M70 is a bitchin R&R party speaker...puts out a wall of sound just not with the imaging and clarity of the 8.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking for a little more input.
> 
> 
> A friend of mine was showing me some Behringer stuff. Apparently he's a big fan, but I haven't heard them mentioned here before.
> 
> 
> sub:
> 
> TRUTH B2092A - 360 watt, dual 8" drivers. Runs about $230.
> http://www.behringer.com/B2092A/index.cfm?lang=ENG
> 
> 
> speakers:
> 
> TRUTH B2031P
> http://www.behringer.com/B2031P/index.cfm?lang=ENG
> 
> 
> What do you think?



I have no real idea about the quality/SQ...Behringer has a reputation as the bottom feeder in the pro gear market...most pros swear at them...they are gaining a following as a reasonably priced alternative solution in home audio...HT adoptees swear by them...maybe they are both right. Pro gear needs to be able to take a licking and keep on ticking everytime. Behringer wouldn't be as stressed in a home environment.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HAHAHAH, You know te 16 guage speaker wire I thought I was using, well, turns out it's actually 22 GUAGE!!!!! Holy speaker starvation Boy Wonder, I've got to get some new wire. What do you guys suggest for 30 - 40 foot runs?



Check monoprice, bluejean and home depot 14g...whichever fits your budget and convenience factor.


----------



## Pagash




studdad said:


> Is the $1.38/ft. wire necessary for the speaker to reach its full potential at this run length, or will something else, i.e. Beldon 12g for example, be just as good at a much lower cost?QUOTE]
> 
> 
> We used 12G from Partsexpress.com, and are very happy with it.
> 
> 
> They sell it in 100ft
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=100-740
> 
> 
> and 500ft spools.
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=100-742


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wire and cable (interconnects) are a long standing argument within the community. Many think expensive solutions do make a difference,



I don't want to see you undo the good you're doing here. Better for people to spend their money and time on areas where there's a known, huge return:

- Money is much, much better spent on better speakers than on fancy wires.

- Effort to get placement and the room right will make a huge difference.


Most people in these forums (not just this thread) have known compromises they've made. Address those, don't worry about fancy wires.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't want to see you undo the good you're doing here. Better for people to spend their money and time on areas where there's a known, huge return:
> 
> - Money is much, much better spent on better speakers than on fancy wires.
> 
> - Effort to get placement and the room right will make a huge difference.
> 
> 
> Most people in these forums (not just this thread) have known compromises they've made. Address those, don't worry about fancy wires.



WTF??? You're preaching to the choir...I don't recommend anyone starting out explore wire and cable arcana....that's one to sup with a long spoon.


----------



## carlosnindy

Well after reading this thread and talking to several folks, I now have what should be a decnt system building.


Toshiba 57HM167 DLP 1080P Television $1518 Amazon

56" Toshiba Stand $99 HHGregg. Closeout. Worked perfectly with 57" TV

Oppo 981 1080P Upscale DVD Player $229 Amazon

Harmon Kardon AVR 235 7.1 Channel Stereo Receiver $210 H/K Direct

Velodyne CHT 5 speaker system $199 Velodyne

Sony 150 watt 12" sub. 7 years old, but works ok for me so far. Momma still complains about it rattling the windows. I dont think it is to bad. Got everything for about the same price as a comparable Samsung TV.


Maybe momma will upgrade my sub to a bic H-100 for Xmas.


----------



## studdad

Ron, Pagash and Buzzy, thanks again. Yeah, 85 ft is very loooooooong, and I am waiting until I get my front speakers/center/sub before I make any decisions about whether I want to run that length for surrounds. Still trying to figure out some way to get them under the hardwood floors. I may ask a floor installer about that, and see if they can remove a section (without destroying it) and then I can maybe grummel a large enough path in the subfloor,,,,I don't know, but going to look into it.


----------



## mbird

Great thread guys! Anyways, I was just auditioning Master and Commander to some friends on my family's Onkyo htib s780. While the sound design was fantastic, I've come to realize that our system is lacking ... mainly in good speakers that will sound fine on their own with music and actual, pure, visceral bass.


These forums have been great and I've compiled a kind of dream system to get my home theater started. I hope to have a ht started in a couple years when I'm a junior in college. Tell me what y'all think:


1. For front and surrounds Paradigm Atoms or Av123 x-series (wouldn't have heard of the company if it wasn't for avsforum ... speakers look beautiful!)

2. Centers: Is it better to use the center that accompanies these speaker sets or to use a single unit (say one atom or one onix) for the center?

3. SVS PB-10 or Hsu 2.3 (Any preference? Both are apparently flip of the coin and should totally decimate our htib onkyo sub)


That's what I have so far. Any other recommendations for this av newb are appreciated


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WTF??? You're preaching to the choir...I don't recommend anyone starting out explore wire and cable arcana....that's one to sup with a long spoon.



Well, people can explore the "arcana" all they want, but in the end it's the cable sellers who'll be wielding the "long spoon", and they aren't planning to "sup" anyone with it, though what they have in mind is a one-syllable word that kind of rhymes with sup.


Anyway, WTF was my reaction too the first time you posted a comment suggesting that cables were even worth considering as a place to spend money, and now you did it again. The latest WTF was this:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wire and cable (interconnects) are a long standing argument within the community. *Many think expensive solutions do make a difference*, but I don't think you should spend a bunch of time or money at this stage. Get quality 14 or 12g wire for a reasonable price, it will be fine. *I may experiment shortly on ICs with some silver cable, but I'm not paying before I try. If they make a difference, I'll let you know*.



You suggest here (and have suggested before) that it might be worth considering at some point. That's not going to help anyone. So, if WTF? is the question, that's TF.


No one has to really take a stand on whether it's total BS or not, because it never passes the practical test. The idea is:


1) Buy reference quality speakers

2) Drive them with amps with enough clean power to never, ever distort or clip.

3) Put it all in a dedicated listening room.

4) Hook it up with fancy cables.


And people might believe they hear a difference. Nothing you can measure, mind you, but they might believe. Well, until somebody has done 1, 2 and 3 - it's not even worth talking about 4.


And if that's not enough, the easy points: Nobody reading this thread needs to think about fancy cables. Nobody mostly interested in HT, instead of music, should think about it.


Meanwhile, there's a bunch of areas where there's no debate about the huge impact, that's what people need to talk about:

- Get the placement right - height, toe in, etc. Look at the off axis charts in some of the reviews - huge benefit to getting the placement right.

- Think about the room.

- Get the best speakers you can get.


----------



## studdad

- Get the placement right - height, toe in, etc. Look at the off axis charts in some of the reviews - huge benefit to getting the placement right.



damn, sounds as difficult as Golf, lmao. Hey, how do I quote someone without getting the whole text? I had to copy and paste on this one.


----------



## brianjen13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not surprised, the first time I hooked R30s into my Onkyo system I was pretty amazed. On the sub, it will really pay off overall if you calibrate with an RS SPL meter. Generally, to get clean/blended bass you very rarely need to go above 0 on the AVR and a 1/3 to 1/2 on the gain on the sub. The gain on the sub is not volume, it's an attenuator for the signal, just like the trim on the receiver. You want the sub to get enough signal from the AVR and enough output (gain) from the sub to balance with your front speakers. A nice sounding sub will only be noticed when off for music and make you **** your pants for HT



Hey Ron could you give us a few pointers on how to calibrate with a meter? Is a cheapie(Radio Shack) ok? Which Disc would you recommend? Hey guys, thanks a ton for that Hanes moment that you were talkng about. My wife is going to have a hard time getting me to go to the movies now.









Brian


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> *EDITED OUT BY UBER DBROWDY!*damn, sounds as difficult as Golf, lmao. Hey, how do I quote someone without getting the whole text? I had to copy and paste on this one.



You just quote it and then go edit it out of your reply thusly...


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> damn, sounds as difficult as Golf, lmao. Hey, how do I quote someone without getting the whole text? I had to copy and paste on this one.



Just hit quote and delete the excess.










I'm on another forum where they have a function where you can highlight someone's post, hit one button, and it gets placed in the quick reply field with quote tags added. VERY handy.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ron could you give us a few pointers on how to calibrate with a meter? Is a cheapie(Radio Shack) ok? Which Disc would you recommend? Hey guys, thanks a ton for that Hanes moment that you were talkng about. My wife is going to have a hard time getting me to go to the movies now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian



There's a few great howto's in the Home Theater 101 thread (linked in the first post).


D


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Panicking about speakers again - help needed!*
> 
> 
> I had my meeting with my custom install guy today, and I think I need to revisit my speaker decision. I am installing in my 14x23x9 room:
> 
> 
> *Panasonic PT-AE1000U 1080p projector
> 
> *Focupix 105"screen (actual viewing area 100)
> 
> *Onkyo 505 Receiver
> 
> *HSU VTF-1 subwoofer
> 
> *HD-DVR, Upconvert DVD player
> 
> *Old but serviceable PSB center channel, two front PSB Century 400i, and two PSB Alpha Mites
> 
> 
> My problem is that the PSB's now look chunky, and I am revisiting my decision to keep them all. I am thinking about keeping the Front three, junking the Alpha Mites, and buying 4 Orb Audio speakers with the wall mounts - they just look money in the online photos. The whole speaker setup would cost me $500 - but is it worth it? The guy is wiring the room, so it makes sense to do 7.1 while he is there I guess, but will I be able to notice the difference from 5.1?
> 
> 
> Lastly - are there aesthetically pleasing wall mount-able or maybe even in-wall options anyone would recommend?
> 
> 
> Thanks people!




OK - I am done..almost. I ended up learning a lot more about wires and cables lately. Bottom line - 16gauge wire seems fine, and buy your cables from monoprice or other reputable online seller. I needed 2 25' HDMI cables and they had them for $20 each, smaller HDMI cables were sub $8, and the wall mounts for my PSB's ended up being $6, and then I just spray painted them black to match the room.


I bought 4 Orb Audio speakers for the back half of a 7.1 setup (only the two rear speakers are yet to be installed. The old school 1997 version PSB's sound money in the front, and the HSU sub is just plain silly. I had a kid's house party over the weekend and there was about 70 people in my house, all had positive things to say about the sound and picture.


I promised pics, and here they are (obviously I need to buy furniture still!) All in all, I did this for less than $6k including installation, paint job, wires, cables, mounts, and components - with this Forum's help - so thank you!

http://picasaweb.google.com/jasherrr...ey=oSlzmxYMdsk


----------



## brianjen13

I'll chech it out, thanks.

Brian


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I promised pics, and here they are (obviously I need to buy furniture still. All in all, I did this for less than $6k including installation, paint job, wires, cables, mounts, and components - with this Forum's help - so thank you!



Where they are?










Grats, I'm glad you're happy with your purchase! Hopefully you'll stick around and share your new knowledge and experience with others.










D


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where they are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grats, I'm glad you're happy with your purchase! Hopefully you'll stick around and share your new knowledge and experience with others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D



I couldnt figure out how to include the pics in the thread so I slapped them up on Picasa and included the link - can someone tell me if they can see them?


I definitely learned a lot and feel that this system is something I can build on. Mos definitely will stick around - this site is super sticky!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, people can explore the "arcana" all they want, but in the end it's the cable sellers who'll be wielding the "long spoon", and they aren't planning to "sup" anyone with it, though what they have in mind is a one-syllable word that kind of rhymes with sup.



That's my personal opinion as well, I think you read too much into my statment...



> Quote:
> Anyway, WTF was my reaction too the first time you posted a comment suggesting that cables were even worth considering as a place to spend money, and now you did it again. The latest WTF was this:You suggest here (and have suggested before) that it might be worth considering at some point. That's not going to help anyone. So, if WTF? is the question, that's TF.



I actually said that no one starting out should be considering this step, as you quoted. What "many audiophiles think or perceive (paraphrase)" is a statment not an endorsement. The fact that I have considered an audition is also a statement. A friend has some silver cable, he swears will sound different...fine...I'll listen and decide if there's any appreciable difference, but, as stated, I'm not putting my own coin into this, just curiosity.



> Quote:
> 1) Buy reference quality speakers
> 
> 2) Drive them with amps with enough clean power to never, ever distort or clip.
> 
> 3) Put it all in a dedicated listening room.
> 
> 4) Hook it up with fancy cables.



This might be true for many down the road...I'm not there yet nor suggest it.



> Quote:
> And if that's not enough, the easy points: Nobody reading this thread needs to think about fancy cables. Nobody mostly interested in HT, instead of music, should think about it.



Agreed, yet from your tone you believe I've overstepped...well we should all read our posts to make sure we are conveying what we truly feel, but your emphasis on what I posted certainly is not how I read it. Seems to be a sore subject for you (and others).



> Quote:
> Meanwhile, there's a bunch of areas where there's no debate about the huge impact, that's what people need to talk about:
> 
> - Get the placement right - height, toe in, etc. Look at the off axis charts in some of the reviews - huge benefit to getting the placement right.
> 
> - Think about the room.
> 
> - Get the best speakers you can get.



Agree 100%


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brianjen13* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ron could you give us a few pointers on how to calibrate with a meter? Is a cheapie(Radio Shack) ok? Which Disc would you recommend? Hey guys, thanks a ton for that Hanes moment that you were talkng about. My wife is going to have a hard time getting me to go to the movies now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian



I use the RS meter all the time. I've tried both the Avia and DVE disks, but using the receiver test tones, as well as, free downloaded test tones for finding the subs frequency response (it's the fun and sometimes hard part) has been just as rewarding for me. The first rough calculation after setting up speaker distance, setting speaker size and crossover, then running the receiver tones is dead simple. Sit in the listening position, point the meter at ear level at a 45 degree angle toward the front speaker, then set the channel trims so that the speakers all match (75 or 85db depending on which reference you use). The sub gets tricky because long sound waves in the deep hz can give you funky responses depending on your room and placement. Also, a calibrated sub matching the mains, will actually be 2-3 db louder (the meter isn't as accurate down low). You may want to go slightly hotter than that. The meter is pretty essential, Avia will help you blend the bass with the mains easier. If you elect to go this route, PM me, I'll walk you through it.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbird* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. Centers: Is it better to use the center that accompanies these speaker sets or to use a single unit (say one atom or one onix) for the center?



stick with the same manufacturer/series for the front three to ensure that the speakers are tonally (timbre) matched.




> Quote:
> 3. SVS PB-10 or Hsu 2.3 (Any preference? Both are apparently flip of the coin and should totally decimate our htib onkyo sub)



either one will make the onkyo sub sound like a clock radio. i own the PB-10, and i know firsthand that it is capable of that gut-wrenching, deep, visceral bass while remaining extremely linear and clean. the Hsu is also a terrific sub with great reviews, i've just never had the chance to hear one. if its between these two, it might come down to cost/features/appearance. SVS offers more (and nicer, IMO) finishes, but the Hsu comes with more options, the most useful of which would be variable tuning (maximum output or maximum extension mode).


good luck.


----------



## mrgribbles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I couldnt figure out how to include the pics in the thread so I slapped them up on Picasa and included the link - can someone tell me if they can see them?
> 
> 
> I definitely learned a lot and feel that this system is something I can build on. Mos definitely will stick around - this site is super sticky!



Pics look great. I envy this set up. Really super. Love the colors. Let me know when its ready, you play the flics, I'll bring the single malt.


Great installation, good luck with it.


----------



## Patriot12

I just ordered the new Onkyo TX-SR 505 receiver, so I'm ready to start trying out different speakers. I think I read earlier in this thread that the Polk Audio R15 and the R150 are virtually the same speaker, except that the R150 can't be wall mounted. Is this accurate information? I can get a hold of some R150's to listen to, but the R15's are a lot harder to find right now. I thought if I liked the R150's, I could find some R15's online somewhere, because I need them to be wall mounted for the surrounds.


----------



## kronarq

I remember a while ago when I was first looking at HTIB's someone mentioned some towers for the front and more bookshelf sized ones in the back that were supposed to be really good bang for the buck. I can't for the life of me remember the name or find it anywhere now. I do remember they were made by a guy up in Canada and it was a fairly small operation. Does anyone have any idea what I am talking about?


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jasherrr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I couldnt figure out how to include the pics in the thread so I slapped them up on Picasa and included the link - can someone tell me if they can see them?
> 
> 
> I definitely learned a lot and feel that this system is something I can build on. Mos definitely will stick around - this site is super sticky!



That system looks great man, congrats! I really like the colors of the walls and carpet and such. The Spiderman 3 poster looks great in there too (too bad the movie is such crap! I'd be embarrassed to have the poster up, as cool as it looks...) How's that sub sound in the room? Looks kinda small and lonely. Are you gonna put up any acoustic dampening stuff on the walls?


D


----------



## ac556

I think I am going to get the Onkyo 504 after all since it is so cheap at Amazon. The 604 has 90 watts/channel listed verses the 75 for the 504. I am pairing this up with the Polk Audio RM6750 speakers. Is the 15 watts/channel more that the 604 produces worth an extra 250 bucks since I won't be using the HDMI features?


Thanks!


----------



## SaveMeJebus

Thanks to everyone's help, I'm (almost) all set up.


Have my Onkyo 674, bic h-100 sub, and a pair of Polk Rti6 speakers to complete my 2.1 system.


Couple questions for the gurus:


1). My wife's major complaint about speakers has always been balance issues between dialogue and background noise. I notice this somewhat with the Polk speakers, but they're certainly 1000% better than my old cheap htib.


Would adding a center speaker help with this? The problem with a center would be that it would be difficult to place if not attached to the top of my plasma. I was taking a look at the SVS center speaker ( http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm ) as that can attach to the top of my tv, but if it's not going to blend well with my speakers and not improve dialogue volume, I don't want to drop any more money.


2). Is lifting my front speakers off the ground to ear level going to make any difference in the sound I hear? I have a bit of a tight space, and currently have the Polks on the ground. I bought some stands, but it might be difficult raising the speakers without blocking the tv, which obviously is a no no. Also, kinda hard to describe without a pic, but one speaker actually sits about 4 inches higher than the other as it's sitting on the raised marble by my fireplace.


----------



## indianafanatic

SMJ,


Adding a center channel speaker would certainly help the dialogue, since that is its primary purpose. As far as mounting one on your plasma, I cannot give any advice, outside of a stand designed for that purpose. Looking at the SVS center speaker you linked, I don't see how it is better suited for mounting on your tv, any more so than one from "Brand X".


Getting your speakers of the floor will dramatically improve the sound you hear. With your ears at the same level as the speakers, you will get a more directed effect. I can't think of any advice given in these forums to the contrary.


A picture, diagram or description of your room may shed some light on your placement dilemma. More information on the room would probably provide better assistance from much wiser and sound-savvy than myself.


Hopefully, those better versed in HT audio will follow me and supply you with more/better advice...


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone's help, I'm (almost) all set up.
> 
> 
> Have my Onkyo 674, bic h-100 sub, and a pair of Polk Rti6 speakers to complete my 2.1 system.
> 
> 
> Couple questions for the gurus:
> 
> 
> 1). My wife's major complaint about speakers has always been balance issues between dialogue and background noise. I notice this somewhat with the Polk speakers, but they're certainly 1000% better than my old cheap htib.
> 
> 
> Would adding a center speaker help with this? The problem with a center would be that it would be difficult to place if not attached to the top of my plasma. I was taking a look at the SVS center speaker ( http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm ) as that can attach to the top of my tv, but if it's not going to blend well with my speakers and not improve dialogue volume, I don't want to drop any more money.



This is pretty much the whole point of the center speaker. It plays the dialogue and the fronts play sound effects and music and such. Once they're separated out you can adjust the levels to your tastes.


I ordered a whole SVS SBS set so I'll let you know how it sounds when I get it all setup. :-]



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2). Is lifting my front speakers off the ground to ear level going to make any difference in the sound I hear? I have a bit of a tight space, and currently have the Polks on the ground. I bought some stands, but it might be difficult raising the speakers without blocking the tv, which obviously is a no no. Also, kinda hard to describe without a pic, but one speaker actually sits about 4 inches higher than the other as it's sitting on the raised marble by my fireplace.



It's my understanding that after purchasing good equipment, the next step is making sure it's setup correctly. Lifting your speakers to ear level should make a noticeable difference. If you can't manage that, at least try pointing them towards ear-level a bit.


I read a big article saying how audio frequencies become more directional the higher they get. By that I mean bass sounds good everywhere but treble goes where your speaker is pointed. If your speaker is significantly below ear-level, you will hear very little treble, some mids and most bass. This could definitely affect your ability to pick out dialogue from everything else.


D


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was taking a look at the SVS center speaker ( http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm )



From what I understand it would be best to timbre match the front 3 speakers, so you're probably better off looking at a Polk CSi3 center to give you the best seamless sound.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is lifting my front speakers off the ground to ear level going to make any difference in the sound I hear?



It will make a huge improvement.


----------



## Jasherrr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That system looks great man, congrats! I really like the colors of the walls and carpet and such. The Spiderman 3 poster looks great in there too (too bad the movie is such crap! I'd be embarrassed to have the poster up, as cool as it looks...) How's that sub sound in the room? Looks kinda small and lonely. Are you gonna put up any acoustic dampening stuff on the walls?
> 
> 
> D



Ha! The poster is 10 times better than the movie I have heard (havent seen yet). The sub is outrageous, I read GSTAR talking about the gut wrenching house shaking sub - and the VTF-1 certainly does the trick for my little setup. Its in the basement and if you are on the main floor, it literally sounds and feels like there is a rock concert downstairs. I decided between SVS and HSU but really have no point of reference on which is better, I just know this one is nice.


I am done tinkering for a while - so likely no soundproofing until I make some more money!


----------



## Ron Temple

I think once you get the speakers off the floor dialog will get better. 24 to 28" stands will place the tweeter at ear level. Toe them in toward the LP a bit (depending) will get you a clear center image in the sweetspot (wife will have to sit next to you) until you get a center. The center provides clear dialog off axis and it's why it's recommended(but not essential for HT). The CSi3 has a beveled top that allows you to mount the speaker under the TV facing upwards if you can find the space. If not you can purchase a center bracket mount with a ball joint that can be tilted toward the LP.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ac556* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I am going to get the Onkyo 504 after all since it is so cheap at Amazon. The 604 has 90 watts/channel listed verses the 75 for the 504. I am pairing this up with the Polk Audio RM6750 speakers. Is the 15 watts/channel more that the 604 produces worth an extra 250 bucks since I won't be using the HDMI features?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You're fine with the 504. 15 watts at the top end (all out) won't add much...slightly more headroom for dynamic peaks. Most of us rarely use more than 30 watts even a relatively loud levels. It's those 25db peaks that come up from time to time that stress the amp sections.


----------



## PigeonBomb

So I'm ready for a home theater system and this forum has been a big help. However, I seem to be stuck. I don't know what I need. I know I want a 5.1 setup eventually. Here's what I have:


HDTV has 2 component inputs, 1 HDMI, 1 digital audio optical, and a few composites which hopefully I won't need


Cable box has 1 component in and 1 component out, 1 optical out


DVD player has 1 component, 1 digital coax, 1 composite


XBOX 360 will use digital optical


So I want the Home Theater to work with the TV, DVD, and the 360.


Can you suggest a few receivers to get me going (I don't want high end, just whatever will do the trick for a non-audiophile) and which cables go where? I'm such a novice










Thanks


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PigeonBomb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I want the Home Theater to work with the TV, DVD, and the 360.



Onkyo 504 will work. It has three component inputs. Just run component cables from all three units, and one component out to the TV.


Run digital optical from the 360 and the cable box into two of the three optical inputs. Run the digital coax from the DVD player to the coax in. Set the inputs using the digital input button on the front.


Run your speakers.


Enjoy.











Pic for reference. The component inputs are on the upper left, and to the left of them are the digital inputs. Speaker outputs are on the upper center and right. Sub out is right below in purple. That's all you'll really need to mess with.


----------



## Ron Temple

Here's the cheap solution...


Entry level receiver of your choice at whatever price point.


Swapout your cablebox to an HD/DVR combo with DVI or HDMI out. Run a DVI/HDMI cable directly to your TV. Run optical or coax cable to the receiver for audio.


DVD player directly to TV with component, audio via optical or digital to receiver.


Xbox, audio to receiver.


HDMI all the way...

Onkyo 605 receiver - HDMI out to TV

Cablebox (HD/DVR) HDMI to receiver

Swapout DVD for Oppo 981- HDMI to receiver

Xbox - audio to receiver


You need whatever digital cable is applicable for each unit. A single or 3 HDMI cables.


----------



## PigeonBomb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Swapout your cablebox to an HD/DVR combo with *DVI* or HDMI out. Run a DVI/HDMI cable directly to your TV. Run optical or coax cable to the receiver for audio.




I appreciate the quick replies. And Ron, I just noticed my cable box does have a DVI. I'm not familiar with this cable. Is there one cable to use from the DVI to the HDMI or would I need an adapter?


----------



## carlosnindy

Just hooked up the CHT Frontrows and took down the Sony's. Big improvement! The weight of the Velodyne's was almost twice that of the same sized Sony's. The biggest improvement I have noticed is the sound coming out of the rears. Let's hope I am as pleased with the H/K 235 over the Sony receiver I currently have.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PigeonBomb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I appreciate the quick replies. And Ron, I just noticed my cable box does have a DVI. I'm not familiar with this cable. Is there one cable to use from the DVI to the HDMI or would I need an adapter?



RS sells DVI/HDMI cables...only the video gets sent. That's why you need the optical/coax output from the cablebox sent to the receiver. My cablebox is the same...DVI/HDMI to TV...optical to receiver.


----------



## Tulpa

Mine's that way as well.


----------



## PigeonBomb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> RS sells DVI/HDMI cables...only the video gets sent. That's why you need the optical/coax output from the cablebox sent to the receiver. My cablebox is the same...DVI/HDMI to TV...optical to receiver.



Thanks a bunch. I found what I think is a great deal on that cable...


http://www.mycablemart.com/store/car...t_detail&p=334 



And one more question and I think I can get started. I won't notice any difference in the HD picture quality with this setup, will I? Right now obviously I have HD component cables from the cablebox to the tv and the picture is awesome.


----------



## blobula

Are the Polk Audio R50's not offered in a black finish?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PigeonBomb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And one more question and I think I can get started. I won't notice any difference in the HD picture quality with this setup, will I? Right now obviously I have HD component cables from the cablebox to the tv and the picture is awesome.



i tried using both component and HDMI connections for my cable box and DVD player, and i find the HDMI picture to be superior (Panasonic plasma) in both cases...sharper and more detailed.


there's less signal processing when using a purely digital connection like DVI or HDMI, so the argument goes that there will be less noise/artifacts with those connections relative to a signal path with a digital-analog-digtal conversion step.


either way, i had a clear preference...maybe you will too.


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indianafanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A picture, diagram or description of your room may shed some light on your placement dilemma. More information on the room would probably provide better assistance from much wiser and sound-savvy than myself.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, those better versed in HT audio will follow me and supply you with more/better advice...




Ask and ye shall receive. I broke down and bought a Rti3 center speaker with hopes that I can nest it in front of the plasma... crosses fingers. Now it's just a matter of figuring out what to do with these huge speakers lol.


----------



## Muncher17

Hello,


I'm looking at setting up a 5.1 system to accompany my 42" Panasonic plasma. I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to the audio equipment, however. Reading through this thread has helped quite a lot (thanks to G-star for starting it!), and has given me some clear ideas of what I can do without spending too much. (I'm hoping to get away with spending $500 to $600)


So far I have been using a 2.0 system made with:


Receiver: Kenwood VR-705

Speakers: 2 Baby Advent III's


I really have no idea how this equipment compares with the things that are being thrown around in this thread, but my guess is that they pale in comparison. Right now, based on what I've read, I am definitely leaning towards the Onkyo TX-SR 504 and the Bic Acoustech H-100.


What would you guys advise as a good approach for the rest of the system. Could I get away with using my 2 existing Baby Advent III speakers as the surrounds and putting the money I saved there towards better main speakers? Or am I better off getting matching surrounds/mains/center? I know I've read in this thread that it is important to "match" the center speaker and the main speakers, but I wasn't sure if that same logic is as crucial when talking about surrounds.


Thanks for any help you can give


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are the Polk Audio R50's not offered in a black finish?



R50s are getting scarce and maybe you're seeing the last of the inventory. It's up to you...be patient and maybe find a pair or go for the cherrys ( I had black, but the cherrys look nicer to me).


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ask and ye shall receive. I broke down and bought a Rti3 center speaker with hopes that I can nest it in front of the plasma... crosses fingers. Now it's just a matter of figuring out what to do with these huge speakers lol.



You definitely need to get the Rti6s on stands and at least 6' apart. May need to move your TV out of the corner a bit. It will improve the soundstage and imaging a ton.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muncher17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now, based on what I've read, I am definitely leaning towards the Onkyo TX-SR 504 and the Bic Acoustech H-100.
> 
> 
> What would you guys advise as a good approach for the rest of the system?



well, conservatively speaking the onkyo and the Bic is going to run you about $400, so you don't have a lot of $$$ left to play with. maybe move the advents to surround duty and invest in either a nice $200 pair of mains with the intent of grabbing a matching center channel down the road, or maybe some more entry level speakers that will come in under budget for the front three.


as always, it comes down to budget, preference, priorities, etc.


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You definitely need to get the Rti6s on stands and at least 6' apart. May need to move your TV out of the corner a bit. It will improve the soundstage and imaging a ton.



Got them up this morning on the Sanus SF26 stands. Finding a way to position them so they make sense is going to be a weekend job, though.


----------



## dbrowdy

Let me know what you think of those stands. I was eyeballing them (well the taller ones) but I've been reading pretty polarized reviews (love em/hate em).


D


----------



## holler

I would just like to say 'thank you' to everybody who has contributed to this thread. I am a recent college graduate and have been looking around for a decent sound system to accompany my new apartment and new flat screen TV.


Thanks to this thread, I know feel confident that I will be getting the best bang for the buck. I was originally going to settle on some random HTIB but I decided it would be best to do some research before I buy.


Though I wont have a 5.1 system out of a box - I'll have a great sounding system which will eventually evolve into an even better system.


For those interested, I will slowly be putting together this system: (in this order)

Onkyo TX-SR 504

X-LS x2

X-Sub

X-CS x1

X-MTM x2

(I wish the shipping wasn't so expensive on these speakers or I'd have them even sooner!)


The only piece I'm not 100% sold on is the X-Sub since there are other great alternatives in this thread which are approximately the same or cheaper when you factor in the shipping. What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let me know what you think of those stands. I was eyeballing them (well the taller ones) but I've been reading pretty polarized reviews (love em/hate em).
> 
> 
> D



from the five minutes I got to spend with them this morning, I'm liking them so far. Very sturdy and heavy. They say you can fill them with sand, but it's plenty sturdy without.


putting them together probably took a few minutes longer than it should as the instructions are less than great.


my only real complaint is that the base is fairly huge, so if you have space constraints like I do, it could be a problem.


----------



## cer

Well, I finally got it all set up.


Sony 55" projection

Onkyo 504

Velodyne Front Row CHT

Bic H-100


I have been fairly happy thus far. I still have a lot to learn and I find myself constantly changing to try to find what sounds best. I have not put a meter on it yet. I struggle with the different listening modes, crossover, and volume settings - but I am getting a little better. I have found that the PLIIx Movie seems to be my favorite


Here is a picture of my preliminary set up. Excuse the messiness, but as I said, I am constantly moving and rearranging, so I have not tidied everything up as of yet. Let me know what you think. I am open to suggestions.










Thank you for all of the help on this forum


----------



## jshigashi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I finally got it all set up.
> 
> 
> Sony 55" projection
> 
> Onkyo 504
> 
> Velodyne Front Row CHT
> 
> Bic H-100
> 
> 
> I have been fairly happy thus far. I still have a lot to learn and I find myself constantly changing to try to find what sounds best. I have not put a meter on it yet. I struggle with the different listening modes, crossover, and volume settings - but I am getting a little better. I have found that the PLIIx Movie seems to be my favorite
> 
> 
> Here is a picture of my preliminary set up. Excuse the messiness, but as I said, I am constantly moving and rearranging, so I have not tidied everything up as of yet. Let me know what you think. I am open to suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for all of the help on this forum




I'm no expert or anything and trying to set stuff up myself. But one thing I read is that you want your speakers at ear level. Those speakers look a bit low, and I believe you can raise your stands.


----------



## hondo164

After researching a throwing out the idea of HTIB (the ones I was looking at were $700 - $800) I decide to try a put a system together and would like some advice on the speaker packages and receivers.


1.) Speakers

Polk Audio PSW110 Black 10" 100-watt Powered Subwoofer - $224.99


4 Polk Audio R150 Black Pair Bookshelf Speakers - $179.98


Polk Audio CSR Center Channel Speaker - $89.98


( about $ 495.00 W/ FREE DELIVERY


Or


2). Speakers


4 Infinity primus 140s


Infinity primus C25 cenetr channel


Infinity PS* subwoofer


$ 479.00 (free delivery)



For a receiver I am torn between an Onkyo 505, 575 or 604. This will all be hooked up to either a TOSHIBA 65hm167 OR Mitsu







WD-65831.


----------



## tooskinny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hondo164* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After researching a throwing out the idea of HTIB (the ones I was looking at were $700 - $800) I decide to try a put a system together and would like some advice on the speaker packages and receivers.
> 
> 
> 1.) Speakers
> 
> Polk Audio PSW110 Black 10" 100-watt Powered Subwoofer - $224.99
> 
> 
> 4 Polk Audio R150 Black Pair Bookshelf Speakers - $179.98
> 
> 
> Polk Audio CSR Center Channel Speaker - $89.98
> 
> 
> ( about $ 495.00 W/ FREE DELIVERY
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 2). Speakers
> 
> 
> 4 Infinity primus 140s
> 
> 
> Infinity primus C25 cenetr channel
> 
> 
> Infinity PS* subwoofer
> 
> 
> $ 479.00 (free delivery)
> 
> 
> 
> For a receiver I am torn between an Onkyo 505, 575 or 604. This will all be hooked up to either a TOSHIBA 65hm167 OR Mitsu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD-65831.




Are you sure on that price for the R150? I just bought a pair last week from Fry's for 49.99.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tooskinny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you sure on that price for the R150? I just bought a pair last week from Fry's for 49.99.



Yah, Fry's/Outpost BM or online is the way to go...


Where are you located? If Canadian, your options might be a bit more limited. However, I'm not a big Infinity fan and I think you can get a much better deal on 150s (at least down here). Also, the H100 or x-sub are much better than the Polk sub you referenced. If you can't find the links, let us know, we point you there.


----------



## doomx

I am looking into a HT solution. I am not that interested in surround sound as much as clear crisp sound when viewing DVDs (whatever that means!).


I like the Yamaha 9030 AVR so far, which will cost me around $200. I am also considering the Polk R15 and the Polk CSR (or RM6752 for $20 less). This set will go around $150-170.


For around $310, I can get the Yamaha 380 HTIB which includes the above AVR, as well as a 5.1 speaker set.


Is the first solution (only 3 speakers) better for a HT set, in comparison to the HTIB solution (same receiver, 5.1 set) for a similar price? (Of course, I can always get better speakers later on and upgrade the HTIB as I go)


Also, if you have another set (center and two fronts) in mind for around $150 total let me know.


----------



## rafiks

Hello! I've been lurking this thread for about 2 months now .. Well, I just bought the onkyo 504 and two polk r50 . The sound is pretty amazing for a 2.0 setup eventhough this is my first real home stereo setup. I am still still planning on adding more speakers and I also haven't bought a HDTV . I do have a a PS3 which i hooked up via optical. Sound is pretty clear especially if I play cd's and mp3s are also awesome.


Thanks to this thread again and to all those who posted..


Cheers!


----------



## hondo164

Thanks guys for sending me to Frys, I think ! have it now.


polk RT 300 (front) - $99.98 (for 2)

polk RT 150 (rear) - $39.00 (for 2)

polk CSR center channel - $89.98 (Crutchfield)

BIC HT 100 - $254.00 (w/shipping and 10% off coupon at overstock.com or shipping .com)


Total - About $ 520.00 including shipping



Now my questions (I know a lot of them...sorry)



1. I plan to wall mount the R150s on brackets....OK?


2. The R 300 will be floor standing on carpet.....OK or do i need to place these on something?


3. Receiver recommendation?????? I wanted to stay around $ 400 or under and plan to connect to a 1080 p TV w/direct TV HD and PS3. Is a receiver with HDMI connections essential (I know most in this range are pass thoughts)


----------



## genfuyung

what is the best combination of all the listed components that will co e out to be under a grand? need to start saving.


----------



## edga4586

I'm putting a projector in my basement which is being finsihed, I was planning on getting one of the Onkyo HTIB's until finding this thread, so obviously I'm a noob.


So now I'm considering the Mission M70s and the Velodyne CHT packages. Seem like good values.


I haven't heard either so it's tough to make a real informed decision except from what I read on here, so any input is appreciated. I'm leaning towards the Velodyne set. My main concern is the basement isn't really designed as a media room, more just an open area for entertaining (22'x27'x7', viewing at about 13' away, basically a great room). From what I gather, these setups will likely be a little undersized for this size room, but is one set an obvious choice over the other considering the room dimensions. I'll pair the system with an old but reliable JBL PB10 for the time being, and will likely get the Onkyo 504 receiver.


Thanks,


Kevin


----------



## Sig-Sauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hondo164* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for sending me to Frys, I think ! have it now.
> 
> 
> polk RT 300 (front) - $99.98 (for 2)
> 
> polk RT 150 (rear) - $39.00 (for 2)
> 
> polk CSR center channel - $89.98 (Crutchfield)
> 
> BIC HT 100 - $254.00 (w/shipping and 10% off coupon at overstock.com or shipping .com)
> 
> 
> Total - About $ 520.00 including shipping
> 
> 
> 
> Now my questions (I know a lot of them...sorry)
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I plan to wall mount the R150s on brackets....OK?
> 
> 
> 2. The R 300 will be floor standing on carpet.....OK or do i need to place these on something?
> 
> 
> 3. Receiver recommendation?????? I wanted to stay around $ 400 or under and plan to connect to a 1080 p TV w/direct TV HD and PS3. Is a receiver with HDMI connections essential (I know most in this range are pass thoughts)



The Yamaha RX-V661 can be found for less then $400.00. It has HDMI and it is NOT a pass through. I have my PS3 and DTV HD through mine and it works fantastic. I have not had a single issue with the HDMI and i know some other receivers have had issues with it. The only thing i don't like is the OSD wont work over the HDMI you need a component run to the tv for it.


You should have a VERY nice budget system WAYYYY better then any HTIB


----------



## dbrowdy

Okay well all my components are in and plugged in...FINALLY!







I still need to calibrate the speakers with an SPL meter but for right now, I'm very happy. Today I was hearing new details on albums which I've owned for 10+ years. Yesterday I listened to the DVD-Audio version "Deadwing" by Porcupine Tree and it's astounding. I've heard good things about this album in 5.1 but, WOW! For movies so far I've only watched highlites from "The Matrix". The bass is through the floor of course, but my imaging is a little off...I will be tweaking for some time I'm sure.


For the record here's my current setup:


Sharp LC-40C32U 32" LCD

Harmon Kardon AVR-340

SVS SBS-01 Fronts and Surrounds

SVS SCS-01 Center

SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer

Oppo 970HD Universal DVD Player

Sony PlayStation2

PC with digital audio out to receiver and DVI out to TV

Logitech Harmony 550 Universal Remote


The sub is awesome. As I've read (but not really experienced until now) it's very clean and crisp but you feel it in your gut! It's not loud and rumbly like a car sub so it's kind of unobtrusive but it's there and you know it when it stops. (Of course, throw on some dance music and you AND your neighbors can enjoy it.







) It's a price point above the Bic and X-Sub, neither of which I've heard so I can't really make a comparison.


Anyhow, thanks to everyone who helped point me in the right direction, especially Ron Temple. I'd post some pics but my fronts aren't on stands yet and it's kinda ghetto lookin. I'll post some later tho.


D


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yesterday I listened to the DVD-Audio version "Deadwing" by Porcupine Tree and it's astounding. I've heard good things about this album in 5.1 but, WOW! For movies so far I've only watched highlites from "The Matrix". The bass is through the floor of course, but my imaging is a little off...I will be tweaking for some time I'm sure.
> 
> 
> For the record here's my current setup:
> 
> 
> Sharp LC-40C32U 32" LCD
> 
> Harmon Kardon AVR-340
> 
> SVS SBS-01 Fronts and Surrounds
> 
> SVS SCS-01 Center
> 
> SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer
> 
> Oppo 970HD Universal DVD Player
> 
> Sony PlayStation2
> 
> PC with digital audio out to receiver and DVI out to TV
> 
> Logitech Harmony 550 Universal Remote
> 
> 
> I'd post some pics but my fronts aren't on stands yet and it's kinda ghetto lookin. I'll post some later tho.
> 
> 
> D



That's an awesome system Dan...you went hog wild, but think of it as buying a major appliance, over the years it's pennies a day and you'll probably only want to go to a couple of movies a year now.


Once you get the fronts on stands and toed in correctly the imaging will snap into place. Check you email, my friends selling some stands and they are probably pretty nice.


Dan and I met on Friday night at the Porcupine Tree concert...couldn't talk audio...pretty loud...great show. Always fun to meet forum members.


All the PT DVD A's are outstanding...once you have one it's tough to listen to them in any other format.


I've heard the SBS package with a PB10 and it was outstanding...the PB12 is about 1.5 PB10s. The budget subs we discuss are not close.


Enjoy.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Excellent thread. I'm not looking for a 5.1 setup because i have no where to put rear speakers so it looks like 3.1 eventually for me







I'm saving for an Xbox360, so i don't really have a lot of money to spend on my sound system. Everything looks good, except i'll probably need a receiver with HDMI.


P.S. I'm a new owner of a Sammy 42'' DLP


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's an awesome system Dan...you went hog wild, but think of it as buying a major appliance, over the years it's pennies a day and you'll probably only want to go to a couple of movies a year now.



wow, i concur...nice setup dan. once you get that sub dialed in right, you should make it a point to rent or test out some of the more famous bass-heavy movies like war of the worlds, master and commander, etc. i've found this thread very useful for finding material to put a good sub to the test:

Master List of DVD's with Bass 


enjoy your new HT!


----------



## samsurd2

When this thread started in February I kind of resented its presence under the forum heading of Home Theater in a Box because I thought of myself as strictly a HTIB guy. But as I began to periodically (and then regularly) read the thread, I realized the discussion couldn't be any more relevant to me and I changed my attitude. Like many here, I can't afford megabuck AV equipment but I do want something with good performance. Second, I realized that I had bought my current HTIB (5.1 Sony HT-7000DH) in large part because it was essentially separates (STR-K7000 HDMI pass through AVR, DVP-NC85H 5 disc upscaling DVD player, 5.1 speakers incl. powered subwoofer) that I could add to and upgrade. I paired it up with a Samsung HL-S5086W HDTV (50", 720p/1080i, DLP). Because the AVR is pass through, even though the DVD player and HD STB are connected to it by HDMI cables, separate digital audio connections to the AVR are required for DD/DTS. Bottom line is that everything was connected to the AVR, I had a single HDMI cable going to the TV, and all A/V switching was done by the AVR.


Well, guess what? The "add to and upgrade" phase has begun. The first addition (a few months ago) was a Samsung DVD-VR330 combo VCR/DVD recorder so that I could burn DVDs of movies I've saved on my STB's DVR. The hook-up is s-video and stereo audio from the DVR into recorder. Sounds like a harmless change but it generated some unforeseen ripples.


The HTIB's AVR is basically Sony's STR-DG600 AVR with HDMI pass through added so it requires all components to have separate audio connections to it. The AVR has no s-video connections which meant that I couldn't route the s-video out of the STB DVR through the AVR and then to the recorder. Also, the AVR doesn't transcode analog video to HDMI (digital) so I no longer had just a single HDMI cable going to the TV. I had to add component video cables from the DVD recorder and now switching is done both on the AVR and the HDTV.


The route back to my simple "a single HDMI cable going to the TV, and all A/V switching was done by the AVR" world was straightforward. I did my homework and recently bought a Sony STR-DG1000 from J&R. This AVR received good professional reviews, has pleased its current users, has all the features I was looking for, has proven performance, is future proof to the extent I required and made economic sense. I'm extremely happy with this receiver but I know full well that Sony AVR's generate a sort of Pavlovian "flaming" reaction here. That said, don't waste our collective time.


I'm much more interested in the next step in the "add to and upgrade" process - i.e., new speakers. After all, now that I've got my new AVR and improved/simplified my audio connection scheme, I want to get the best sound that I can *afford*. System usage is 75% DVD/HDTV and 25% music. The room where things are set up is about 18' x 13' (8' ceilings), with about half of one of the long walls opening to another room. I'm looking at a speaker budget of around $700. For now, I'll stick to a 5.1 system and I can't accomodate any tower speakers. So far I've considered three package deals. Of the three, I put a burr under the local CC manager's saddle so he's setting up the Polk's for listening. Haven't a clue where I might hear the Infinity's or AV123's. Also, with shipping, the AV123's are probably at least $100 more than my budget.


Anyhow, on this topic I'm very much open to discussion and recommendations.


Infinity Primus 140 based Theater Pack/PS-8: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-CqPkVs3...00&I=700P5PPS8 )


Polk Audio RM6880: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-CqPkVs3...00&I=107RM6880 


AV123 x-ls 5.1 System: http://www.**********/products_produc...s&product=92.1


----------



## doomx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hondo164* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for sending me to Frys, I think ! have it now.
> 
> 
> polk RT 300 (front) - $99.98 (for 2)
> 
> polk RT 150 (rear) - $39.00 (for 2)
> 
> polk CSR center channel - $89.98 (Crutchfield)
> 
> BIC HT 100 - $254.00 (w/shipping and 10% off coupon at overstock.com or shipping .com)
> 
> 
> Total - About $ 520.00 including shipping
> 
> 
> 
> Now my questions (I know a lot of them...sorry)
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I plan to wall mount the R150s on brackets....OK?
> 
> 
> 2. The R 300 will be floor standing on carpet.....OK or do i need to place these on something?
> 
> 
> 3. Receiver recommendation?????? I wanted to stay around $ 400 or under and plan to connect to a 1080 p TV w/direct TV HD and PS3. Is a receiver with HDMI connections essential (I know most in this range are pass thoughts)



Where did you find the RT300 for $99/pair?? In Frys it has them listed for $199 each.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Samsurd2

The Infinity and Polk systems my be on a comparable level. The AV123 is going to be leaps and bounds ahead of ither system. I would personaly wait if its just $100.00 off your budget the wait will be well worth it. Also with your budget you could find deals on polk bookshelfs and put together a nice system. There is lots of deals out there I know Frys has Polk R150s for 39.99 a pair right now


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Samsurd2
> 
> The Infinity and Polk systems my be on a comparable level. The AV123 is going to be leaps and bounds ahead of ither system. I would personaly wait if its just $100.00 off your budget the wait will be well worth it. Also with your budget you could find deals on polk bookshelfs and put together a nice system. There is lots of deals out there I know Frys has Polk R150s for 39.99 a pair right now



Agree 100% on both suggestions...if your budget allows, the x-series is an order of magnitude better. Mark Schifter has stated that they were designed to compete with speakers in the $400/pr pricepoint and from what I heard, they sound like it. If you can't stretch, the R series Polks are a very nice bang for the buck solution.


----------



## SaveMeJebus

here's my dumb question of the day...


noticed the other night that my bic h-100 has a toggle switch on the back that can be either "on" or "auto."


Do I need to have it on one or the other for it to properly work with my receiver/speakers?


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Hey guys, I think I have narrowed my receiver options. I will be running the Polk R300's and the Polk CSi25 center. I want to know which receiver you would use, the Yamaha RX-V659 (7.1), the Yamaha RX-V559 (6.1) or the Denon AVR-1507 (7.1). All of tyhese are priced very close, the 559 being the cheapest as it is only a 6.1. I just want to know which one will work the best with my Polks. The 659 got a smokin hot review about a year ago but I just want yall's opinion.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here's my dumb question of the day...
> 
> 
> noticed the other night that my bic h-100 has a toggle switch on the back that can be either "on" or "auto."
> 
> 
> Do I need to have it on one or the other for it to properly work with my receiver/speakers?



On means the subwoofer is always powered on even if the receiver is turned off. Auto means that the sub comes alive only when a signal is being sent to it from the receiver. It probably doesn't consume much electricity when no signal is being sent.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Samsurd2
> 
> The Infinity and Polk systems my be on a comparable level. The AV123 is going to be leaps and bounds ahead of ither system. I would personaly wait if its just $100.00 off your budget the wait will be well worth it. Also with your budget you could find deals on polk bookshelfs and put together a nice system. There is lots of deals out there I know Frys has Polk R150s for 39.99 a pair right now





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Agree 100% on both suggestions...if your budget allows, the x-series is an order of magnitude better. Mark Schifter has stated that they were designed to compete with speakers in the $400/pr pricepoint and from what I heard, they sound like it. If you can't stretch, the R series Polks are a very nice bang for the buck solution.



Thanks for the input. I took a quick look at Frys website and they're sold out of the R150s so I think I'll take a peek in-store to see what they've got. Re. the x-series, I sort of expected they might be the best of the three options I tossed out there for consideration. Although it smacks of rationalization when one puts it in the context of "want to have" rather than "need to have", my experience outside of HT has shown that stretching the budget to get a noticeably better result now is sometimes the smarter economic choice. With that in mind, I'm leaning toward the x-series although I'll want to hear them before proceeding. BTW, what opinions do you all have on the x-series versus a 5.1 SVS system that would really blow the budget (SBS-01 System: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm )? Is there another "leaps and bounds" improvement to be gained for the additional $300? Before you answer, know that the ears that any of these systems are intended for are AARP-qualified.


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input. I took a quick look at Frys website and they're sold out of the R150s so I think I'll take a peek in-store to see what they've got. Re. the x-series, I sort of expected they might be the best of the three options I tossed out there for consideration. Although it smacks of rationalization when one puts it in the context of "want to have" rather than "need to have", my experience outside of HT has shown that stretching the budget to get a noticeably better result now is sometimes the smarter economic choice. With that in mind, I'm leaning toward the x-series although I'll want to hear them before proceeding. BTW, what opinions do you all have on the x-series versus a 5.1 SVS system that would really blow the budget (SBS-01 System: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm )? Is there another "leaps and bounds" improvement to be gained for the additional $300? Before you answer, know that the ears that any of these systems are intended for are AARP-qualified.



FYI, I checked out the Polks in-store at Fry's so I could listen to them. They're NOT $50/pr in the store.


As to the SVS system, you can save $200 if you get it in silver or white right now ( http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_silver.cfm ). That brings the price down much closer to the AV123 system. I have the SVS system (with the 12" sub) and I love it. I haven't heard the AV123 system so I can't really say how it compares.


D


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, what opinions do you all have on the x-series versus a 5.1 SVS system that would really blow the budget (SBS-01 System: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm )? Is there another "leaps and bounds" improvement to be gained for the additional $300? Before you answer, know that the ears that any of these systems are intended for are AARP-qualified.



AARP qualified...so am I







. The x-series speakers and SBS-01s are fairly close. Both are great deals. If you listen to a lot of music and like warm, the the AV123 speakers are probably for you. The SBSs are very good too, are much smaller, not as pretty IMO and are a great value by themselves. The heart of the system is the stellar sub. At the special sales price it's an amazing system. Both of these packages are an upgrade from the Polk Rs, so it you like them (and they are very good for the price) you can be confident that you'll appreciate either the SVS or AV123 packages much more.


As G-star and I have stated before, a great sub will give even mediocre speakers outstanding HT capability. Paired with quality speakers, you won't be thinking of upgrading soon.


EDIT: The Polk Rs go on sale in store 2 or 3 times a month, not always the same models at the same time...same with Outpost and at different times than the stores.


----------



## Bruce Wayne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I think I have narrowed my receiver options. I will be running the Polk R300's and the Polk CSi25 center. I want to know which receiver you would use, the Yamaha RX-V659 (7.1), the Yamaha RX-V559 (6.1) or the Denon AVR-1507 (7.1). All of tyhese are priced very close, the 559 being the cheapest as it is only a 6.1. I just want to know which one will work the best with my Polks. The 659 got a smokin hot review about a year ago but I just want yall's opinion.





Add the Onkyo 604 to the mix. Is it true that Sony makes these products?


----------



## dbrowdy

Onkyo is the "high end" Sony and Aiwa is the "low end" Sony. I guess that makes Sony the mid-grade Sony.


----------



## tooskinny

I inquired about the x-sub from av123 and they are on backorder for at least three weeks or longer. I asked about maybe free shipping or something for waiting that long. No go with that, said the demand and quality is too good for any discounts. Maybe I will wait or maybe I won't.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, I checked out the Polks in-store at Fry's so I could listen to them. They're NOT $50/pr in the store.
> 
> 
> As to the SVS system, you can save $200 if you get it in silver or white right now ( http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_silver.cfm ). That brings the price down much closer to the AV123 system. I have the SVS system (with the 12" sub) and I love it. I haven't heard the AV123 system so I can't really say how it compares.



Thanks for pointing out the SVS sale.I totally missed that. To paraphrase the Stones, I guess I could paint them black.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> AARP qualified...so am I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The x-series speakers and SBS-01s are fairly close. Both are great deals. If you listen to a lot of music and like warm, the the AV123 speakers are probably for you. The SBSs are very good too, are much smaller, not as pretty IMO and are a great value by themselves. The heart of the system is the stellar sub. At the special sales price it's an amazing system. Both of these packages are an upgrade from the Polk Rs, so it you like them (and they are very good for the price) you can be confident that you'll appreciate either the SVS or AV123 packages much more.
> 
> 
> As G-star and I have stated before, a great sub will give even mediocre speakers outstanding HT capability. Paired with quality speakers, you won't be thinking of upgrading soon.
> 
> 
> EDIT: The Polk Rs go on sale in store 2 or 3 times a month, not always the same models at the same time...same with Outpost and at different times than the stores.



Thanks to everyone for the information so far. I need to mull all of this over for a bit but I'll be back either with more questions or a post on what I decided and why










Oops, I'm back already. If you guys can tolerate me adding yet another alternative to the mix, what about this Aperion system? Size-wise it seems comparable to the Polk 6880 but price-wise they're more like the SVS. Should they be seriously considered? http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...,12,35,17.aspx


----------



## blobula

I received my Polk Audio R150 bookshelf speakers today. I've never really owned any other speakers besides my HTIB set, so these speakers impressed me quite a bit. For the price I got them for, I can't complain at all! Hopefully, I'll get a center, surrounds, and a receiver soon. Slowly but surely.


Here are some pictures of the unboxing.

R150 speakers


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oops, I'm back already. If you guys can tolerate me adding yet another alternative to the mix, what about this Aperion system? Size-wise it seems comparable to the Polk 6880 but price-wise they're more like the SVS. Should they be seriously considered? http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...,12,35,17.aspx



I think there's an Aperion thread on Speakers...I've not heard them, but they are respected. The look pretty...quasi bookshelf and small sub. Off the top of my head, you'll get better SQ with larger bookshelf speakers in the SBS package and extremely large, deep and heavy x-series...just physics. The sub in the package hasn't been getting any notice on the Subwoofer forum, but might compete with the x-sub (which has). The SVS sub is huge in comparison, but will eat a couple of these guys for breakfast.


----------



## oofie810

Hey guys, I am now looking for a sub for my beginner HT. So far, I have the Onkyo 504 receiver, a pair of Polk r30s, and an r15 for a center channel. Right now, I have a Polk PSW10 that I got from CC, but found out that tweeter still has them for about $120 because they're closing. Should I just stay with the Polk sub (I'm quite happy with it), or go with a Bic H100, which will be about $100 more. Will the Bic be leaps and bounds over the Polk, and is it worth the extra 100 over the Polk?


----------



## Sig-Sauer

I hear lots of bad about the polk subs. I got mine from frys for free when they had a sale, i guess they do that in store a fiew times a year. While it was not great it did ok for lower volume levels if you turned its gain up all the way and used a Y cable on its inputs. Its probubly worth about 120.00 thats about it though. It did get me by fine untill i upgraded to my Velo. It is better then any HTIB subs. The problem with the PSW10 is its amp is just to small 50watts RMS 100 peak.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think there's an Aperion thread on Speakers...I've not heard them, but they are respected. The look pretty...quasi bookshelf and small sub. Off the top of my head, you'll get better SQ with larger bookshelf speakers in the SBS package and extremely large, deep and heavy x-series...just physics. The sub in the package hasn't been getting any notice on the Subwoofer forum, but might compete with the x-sub (which has). The SVS sub is huge in comparison, but will eat a couple of these guys for breakfast.



More research...the SVS shipping cost is about $150 for a total of ~$1150. That coupled with the fact that I want black speakers causes me to scratch them off my list - too much strain on the budget.


Found the Aperion thread over in the Speakers forum. The Intimus 422-LR speakers don't get much (if any) love over there - almost no mention and then only as in "oh by the way my surrounds are...". On a less subjective note, I see that the both Intimus 422 satellite and center roll off at 100Hz at the low end which means they've less inherent bass capability. Coincidentally, this is the same low end frequency response that's exhibited by the Infinity Primus 140 based system I scoped out on Crutchfield. More later...


----------



## oofie810




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hear lots of bad about the polk subs. I got mine from frys for free when they had a sale, i guess they do that in store a fiew times a year. While it was not great it did ok for lower volume levels if you turned its gain up all the way and used a Y cable on its inputs. Its probubly worth about 120.00 thats about it though. It did get me by fine untill i upgraded to my Velo. It is better then any HTIB subs. The problem with the PSW10 is its amp is just to small 50watts RMS 100 peak.



How did you get one for free?







Well, I'm still debating if I should get the Bic or just be content with the Polk. Right now, the polk seems to be good, but then, I havent had the chance to listen to better subs. Maybe if I get a chance to listen to better subs, I might change my mind about the polk.


----------



## Sig-Sauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My experience outside of HT has shown that stretching the budget to get a noticeably better result now is sometimes the smarter economic choice.



Words to live by my friend spend 100 extra now and save 1000 down the road and a truckload of buyers remorse.


SVS are really nice but not for the extra money. I dont think anything out there in a package deal can come close to what AV123 offers. The only way i think you could do as better for the money, would be search the net for hot deals on Polks.


4 R150s around 100.00 (recently 39.99 a pair)

1 CSR around 100.00

Bic H100 240 ish or a Velo VRP-1000 250.00


This is a really nice movie/music budget system


I have seen deals on JBL, and Infinity stuff also


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Words to live by my friend spend 100 extra now and save 1000 down the road and a truckload of buyers remorse.
> 
> 
> SVS are really nice but not for the extra money. I dont think anything out there in a package deal can come close to what AV123 offers. The only way i think you could do as better for the money, would be search the net for hot deals on Polks.
> 
> ...



You may be right but waiting "at least 3 months" for the AV123 is perhaps not the best solution for some people. I was considering the AV123's but "maybe two weeks" was out of the question for me and now that's gotten stretched quite a bit.


I think ~$950 for the SVS silver/white system shipped is a heckuva good deal, especially considering the unavailability of the nearest competition. Pricewise, it's a level beyond the Polks and Velos that are being discussed, but so are the AV123's and I don't think it's much more expensive TBH....$50 before shipping?


Anyways, that's my $0.02 and obviously I chose the SVS system so I'm a little biased.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SVS are really nice but not for the extra money. I dont think anything out there in a package deal can come close to what AV123 offers. The only way i think you could do as better for the money, would be search the net for hot deals on Polks.



the strength of the SVS system lies in the subwoofer, which is the most critical aspect of a budget HT, IMO. the "smallest" SVS sub (PB-10) will easily outperform the Bic or the X-sub w/o breaking a sweat. this is why the package costs more.


the AV123 speakers are probably a bit better than the SVS speakers, but they become less attractive if you have to wait 3 months. the polks, while great entry level speakers, can't compete with the packages from AV123 or SVS. and the polk sub discussed upthread isn't worth much more than $100, and come in last performance-wise of all the subs discussed.


----------



## Randman1

I've been lurking for a few months now and I've found this thread to be a huge help in tying to assemble the audio portion of my HT. I have a Panasonic 42" plasma that I'm building around. I have a Harmon Kardon AVR-146 hooked into a couple of old Sony satellite speakers for a 2.0 setup. Sounds OK, but I know I can do much, much better for a small investment. A HTIB really didn't fit for me.


I want to get some new fronts, center and a sub for a nice 3.1 system in a 12x15 room (open in back to kitchen and 1 side). I'd like to stay with small fronts and not go with floorstanding speakers. I need to deal with WAF and she likes big sound in a small package (aka Bose), but I don't wanna go there.


I like the price of the Polk R150s at Fry's, but the size has me a bit concerned as it's bigger than I planned on going believe it or not. I'd go to battle for them if there was a advantage over the other two options I've seen, which are:


Athena WS-15

Polk RM6801/RM101


As you can tell from these options, I need to go on the inexpensive side and keep them small. Any other options would be appreciated.


This setup will mostly be used for TV and movies with the occasional game and some music from time to time. I know that I will upgrade down the road, but I want to get something that sounds good. (Sounds like the recurring theme of this thread.)


As for a center, I really am at a loss for what to do. I have the plasma on its stand, not mounted. I don't want to mount the center on the wall and I think it would look terrible if I place it on the cabinet in front of the plasma. I wouldn't mind setting on top of the TV and I am curious to know if there is any mounting hardware that anyone knows about to mount the center (and even the fronts) to a stand sitting plasma. Using the wall mount threads?


I don't even know what center to choose to accomplish this.


I plan to add in a sub (probably the BIC) soon after I get the fronts and center purchased.


Thanks in advance for the advice.


----------



## jizaref1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oofie810* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How did you get one for free?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm still debating if I should get the Bic or just be content with the Polk. Right now, the polk seems to be good, but then, I havent had the chance to listen to better subs. Maybe if I get a chance to listen to better subs, I might change my mind about the polk.



I am getting a Polk set (the RM6880) from Circuit City to start off my HT because I got a great deal. I got the $699 list item from the store at $329 (don't ask...).


Anyway, I will soon have the budget for a sub. I hear bad things about the Polk subs and know I will eventually replace it. Should I just go blindly and buy the Bic H-100, or would something else suit?


For reference, my system will be Sony 46XBR2, Onkyo TXSR605, in a 15x14 basement room with an open wall on one side.


THanks,

Jeff


----------



## samsurd2

Probably old news over at the Speakers forum but maybe helpful to those who are here. http://www.ecoustics.com/sv/1932


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may be right but waiting "at least 3 months" for the AV123 is perhaps not the best solution for some people. I was considering the AV123's but "maybe two weeks" was out of the question for me and now that's gotten stretched quite a bit.



Did I have a senior moment and miss something? I thought tooskinny said he was told the wait was "at least 3 *weeks* or longer" for the AV123 x-sub.


----------



## dbrowdy

Ahh, you're right, my bad. Still, I think my point holds. "At least 3 weeks" comes weeks after the first reports of "two weeks." The AV123 system might be the best system in the world, but until I can actually GET one, I don't think it's worth considering.


And thanks for that SVS review link. Like I mentioned before, I have never read a bad review of that set. I particularly like this part, "The PB12-NSD measurements suggest world-class dynamics, low price notwithstanding."







There's a glowing review on Audioholics too.


D


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably old news over at the Speakers forum but maybe helpful to those who are here. http://www.ecoustics.com/sv/1932



That review has been used by SVS trolls to discredit both the speakers and the sub. Nousaine is highly respected but got some strange numbers with his methodology and huge room. There are some other FR graphs floating around that are quite favorable and the sub was just tested in a Finnish shootout outdoors with some pretty amazing numbers from 16hz (along with a bunch of other stellar performers).

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-2007-a-3.html


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ahh, you're right, my bad. Still, I think my point holds. "At least 3 weeks" comes weeks after the first reports of "two weeks." The AV123 system might be the best system in the world, but until I can actually GET one, I don't think it's worth considering.
> 
> 
> And thanks for that SVS review link. Like I mentioned before, I have never read a bad review of that set. I particularly like this part, "The PB12-NSD measurements suggest world-class dynamics, low price notwithstanding."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a glowing review on Audioholics too.
> 
> 
> D



No worries - it's all good. Everyone is being incredibly helpful.


----------



## tooskinny

Yep it was three weeks until the first delivery and then they will start to fill the orders. I think I will wait about a month and see if they have them in stock, if not I might try the bic for about the same price.


----------



## studdad

lol, back again.


My Mascaray Natural AV123 x-ls speakers and sub are supposed to be shipping late this week, early next week. Several people have already received theirs.


I read some posts and saw 3 months??? From what I have heard, everything that was ordered before April 23 will be shipped by the end of next week. For those who order now, it depends on the product and wood cabinet you choose, but I think it was a 3 week wait, not 3 months. I think you may be able to get the Palisander cabinets pretty quickly, as I saw some posts of people who ordered the end of April, and received their speakers yesterday. In contrast, the White Maple product seems to be taking much longer. If you want to check wait times, just go to their website and email them. They have great customer service from my experience, and the owner seems to be a great guy too (answered some of my questions personally). I am still waiting on the "hardwood floor guy" to come and give me a quote to take up some flooring so I can run some surrounds in the back (if its possible).


Once they arrive, I will be back (or possibly sooner).


----------



## SaveMeJebus

Crash and burn










Got my Polk Csi3 center speaker today with plans of getting everything setup tonight... of course, in my rush, I never looked at the product specs as to the size of the thing. Can't really sit it on top of the tv stand in front of the tv, as it's just tall enough to block about an inch of the tv while on the couch...


thought I could remove my dvd player and STB and stick it in the cabinet in their place... moved everything out, went to slide it in... and I find out that it's 20" long where I have 18.5" of space...










so now I'm thinking of ordering the Polk CS1 center speaker http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mon...9276137&sr=1-3 


which measures 18" in length... which should just squeeze in. Will this still be a good fit with my Polk RTi6 speakers? I imagine it would be, but don't want to spend any more if it's not going to play nice.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *studdad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> lol, back again.
> 
> 
> My Mascaray Natural AV123 x-ls speakers and sub are supposed to be shipping late this week, early next week. Several people have already received theirs.
> 
> 
> I read some posts and saw 3 months??? From what I have heard, everything that was ordered before April 23 will be shipped by the end of next week. For those who order now, it depends on the product and wood cabinet you choose, but I think it was a 3 week wait, not 3 months. I think you may be able to get the Palisander cabinets pretty quickly, as I saw some posts of people who ordered the end of April, and received their speakers yesterday. In contrast, the White Maple product seems to be taking much longer. If you want to check wait times, just go to their website and email them. They have great customer service from my experience, and the owner seems to be a great guy too (answered some of my questions personally). I am still waiting on the "hardwood floor guy" to come and give me a quote to take up some flooring so I can run some surrounds in the back (if its possible).
> 
> 
> Once they arrive, I will be back (or possibly sooner).



Those finishes are amazing...I think they will even sound better







. I hope they get there soon so you can report. I try to stay neutral on brands I respect, but I thought they would be a good fit for you...enjoy.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ahh, you're right, my bad. Still, I think my point holds. "At least 3 weeks" comes weeks after the first reports of "two weeks." The AV123 system might be the best system in the world, but until I can actually GET one, I don't think it's worth considering.



I guess this makes it official. Quoted from the *x-ls/x-cs 5.1 system* page:


Shipping Dates:

Orders placed after April 23 will be shipped in late May/early June.


That noise you hear is something that's definitely slipping to the right.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess this makes it official. Quoted from the *x-ls/x-cs 5.1 system* page:
> 
> 
> Shipping Dates:
> 
> Orders placed after April 23 will be shipped in late May/early June.
> 
> 
> That noise you hear is something that's definitely slipping to the right.



There is sure no downside about the AV123 package...if that's the way you go you're going to be veeerrrry happy.


----------



## Muncher17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> well, conservatively speaking the onkyo and the Bic is going to run you about $400, so you don't have a lot of $$$ left to play with. maybe move the advents to surround duty and invest in either a nice $200 pair of mains with the intent of grabbing a matching center channel down the road, or maybe some more entry level speakers that will come in under budget for the front three.
> 
> 
> as always, it comes down to budget, preference, priorities, etc.



Yeah, you're right. After thinking about this for awhile, I think maybe the following may be a better compromise for me considering my budget. As a reminder, what I have right now is:


Receiver: Kenwood VR-705

Speakers: 2 Baby Advent III's


I was originally going to replace the receiver, add 3 front speakers and a sub, and try to come in between the $500-$600 price range. I didn't like how that was working out though, so I decided that maybe I really don't need to replace my receiver. With that in mind, here is my new plan:


Receiver: same Kenwood VR-705

Front: Athena AS-B1.2 ($119 + shipping)

Center: Athena AS-C1.2 ($150 + shipping)

Sub: BIC H-100 (~$240)

Surrounds: same Baby Advent III's


First I have to go find a place to audition the Athenas. (any suggestions?) I've liked all of the things that I've read about them so far. My questions are:


The price difference between the C1.2 and C.5 is not trivial. How big is the difference between these 2 speakers, and is it worth the $75 difference in price?


Also, can the Athena B1.2s be wall mounted?


Lastly, I'm not sure if anyone knows what the quality of the Kenwood VR-705 receiver is, but does anyone think that upgrading this receiver to something like the Onkyo 504 is more important than some of the other things I have selected to get?


Thanks


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Crash and burn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got my Polk Csi3 center speaker today with plans of getting everything setup tonight... of course, in my rush, I never looked at the product specs as to the size of the thing. Can't really sit it on top of the tv stand in front of the tv, as it's just tall enough to block about an inch of the tv while on the couch...
> 
> 
> thought I could remove my dvd player and STB and stick it in the cabinet in their place... moved everything out, went to slide it in... and I find out that it's 20" long where I have 18.5" of space...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so now I'm thinking of ordering the Polk CS1 center speaker http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mon...9276137&sr=1-3
> 
> 
> which measures 18" in length... which should just squeeze in. Will this still be a good fit with my Polk RTi6 speakers? I imagine it would be, but don't want to spend any more if it's not going to play nice.




What kind of TV do you have? There is a stand out there that will allow you to put the center channel on top of a DLP or similar TV. Maybe someone else can chime in with a link or who makes it.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muncher17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The price difference between the C1.2 and C.5 is not trivial. How big is the difference between these 2 speakers, and is it worth the $75 difference in price?



the C1.2 is designed to match the B1.2's in terms of driver size. the C.5 is a smaller speaker that originally went with the S.5 set. if you're going with the B1.2's up front, it would be best to have the matching center (C1.2) so it doesn't get overpowered by your mains.



> Quote:
> Also, can the Athena B1.2s be wall mounted?



they're pretty heavy for brackets, and they don't have any mounting holes/hardware to begin with. you might be able to build/purchase some shelves, but speaker stands is the easiest way to go.



> Quote:
> Lastly, I'm not sure if anyone knows what the quality of the Kenwood VR-705 receiver is, but does anyone think that upgrading this receiver to something like the Onkyo 504 is more important than some of the other things I have selected to get?



i'm not familiar with that receiver. unless it is seriously lacking in power or features (like digital audio decoding capabilites/inputs) you're probably fine for now, and upgrading the speakers/sub will have more of an immediate impact.


----------



## SaveMeJebus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Echomalinois* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of TV do you have? There is a stand out there that will allow you to put the center channel on top of a DLP or similar TV. Maybe someone else can chime in with a link or who makes it.




it's a 50" plasma sitting atop a corner tv stand. in my wife's infinite practical wisdom (I knew I married her for some reason!), she suggested just putting the speaker behind the tv on a stand... Brilliant!!


The thought seriously never crossed my mind. Now it's a matter of getting to Home Depot and picking out some lumber for a quick and dirty, ugly speaker stand construction that will give me about 52" of clearance. I'm thinking this is going to be a hammer and nails type of thing, since the stand will be completely blocked by the tv and so aesthetics isn't going to matter.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Crash and burn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got my Polk Csi3 center speaker today with plans of getting everything setup tonight... of course, in my rush, I never looked at the product specs as to the size of the thing. Can't really sit it on top of the tv stand in front of the tv, as it's just tall enough to block about an inch of the tv while on the couch...
> 
> 
> thought I could remove my dvd player and STB and stick it in the cabinet in their place... moved everything out, went to slide it in... and I find out that it's 20" long where I have 18.5" of space...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so now I'm thinking of ordering the Polk CS1 center speaker http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mon...9276137&sr=1-3
> 
> 
> which measures 18" in length... which should just squeeze in. Will this still be a good fit with my Polk RTi6 speakers? I imagine it would be, but don't want to spend any more if it's not going to play nice.



Bummer...you can wall or ceiling mount the CSi3 pointing the tweeter toward the LP...probably better than the CS1 (it's a pretty nice center, but the 3 is nicer and brighter...and matches) or return it and see if you can score a CSi5 used, which is so big you won't have any choice but to mount it


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> it's a 50" plasma sitting atop a corner tv stand. in my wife's infinite practical wisdom (I knew I married her for some reason!), she suggested just putting the speaker behind the tv on a stand... Brilliant!!
> 
> 
> The thought seriously never crossed my mind. Now it's a matter of getting to Home Depot and picking out some lumber for a quick and dirty, ugly speaker stand construction that will give me about 52" of clearance. I'm thinking this is going to be a hammer and nails type of thing, since the stand will be completely blocked by the tv and so aesthetics isn't going to matter.



Don't forget to angle the speaker down towards the listening position. I hear those wedge-shaped rubber door-stops are good for this...


D


----------



## shindokie

damnit it! i have like the crappiest luck. SO igot my athena speakers today. But then when i try to stick it where i have my onkyo center speaker... it doesn't fit. Do you guys know if any stands or something i could do about this. I'm sad now.


----------



## afrogt

You're probably gonna have to provide a diagram or photo or something. No one knows where you had your Onkyo center.


----------



## sambow87

Ok, so I'm trying to find a better sub to replace my Onkyo. I'm just not getting anything that great out of it compared to the rest of the system.


I'm having a hard time deciding between the X-Sub and the BIG h-100. I know there have been countless discussions but I really just can't decide.


I have a pretty small room (bedroom).

I'd like to spend as less as possible (favoring the X-sub)

I want more than the Onkyo Sub, I mean, I want to hear a good difference.

This is about 80/20 HT/Music use


Which should I chose?


----------



## Ron Temple

Then get the x-sub...it's more than capable. Either will be a huge improvement.


----------



## carlosnindy

So I finally have everything in and installed now. Thank The Lord for this thread. I have went from all Sony speakers and receiver to Velodyne CHT Front Row speakers and an H/K AVR-235 Reveiver and I couldnt be happier. Even my wife can tell the difference and that is a big accomplishment. The H/K has brought the CHT's to life and has even given new life to my Sony sub. It is putting out more room filling bass than it has ever before and it is seemlessly mixed in with the 5.1 speakers. The new sound is so much clearer and defined. It really is amazing. I went from what I thought was good to something that is just so much better. Next thing to purchase, when the wife forgets about the money I have spent in the last month, is either the x-sub or the h-100 or even something a step above them. The Sony was actually rattling the windows last night watching Dish Network. I just have to decide which one will work best in my very open 13x24 family/living/dining room with an open staircase. Thank you to Ron Temple and G-Star for all your help and PM's. The AVR-235 was a great suggestion.


----------



## Mikeoz

Well, I finally got an avr235 via ebay, and perhaps paid a little more than I should have, but I think it's still a fair price considering a new 240 costs $300.. It seems like suddenly there's a demand for the refurbed avr235's (I bet it's other avsforum readers







) which is why they're going for >$200 now..










I got my polk r50's and csi25, and they sound good, but I think the pos pioneer HTIB receiver is really holding it back. I'm guessing the pioneer HTIB receiver has high crossover points for the center/L/R channels since they were tiny cube speakers before, so a real receiver should alleviate the problem.


About the only "complaint" I have so far is that the imaging is poor since the speakers are right next to the tv (a 32" lcd). But I guess that's something I will have to live w/ since this is a bedroom, and it can't be perfect. Thanks for all the help guys. I'll let you know how it all sounds. I guess I'll proly pick up the x-sub to round off the 3.1 setup. Thanks again!


----------



## Ron Temple

The only difference in the 235 vs 40 is the ipod bridge which requires an optional access., I think, and one other spec that might not mean anything, but I'm old school...the 235 weighs 33lb vs 27lbs. This translates to heavier rails and power supply (probably caps too) which should allow it more available current. That's hearsay on my part (not the weight, but my conclusion)...more current means being able to handle transient peaks without clipping. Enjoy your receivers...


----------



## shindokie

Well I said I was going to post when i received most of my things. This is the before picture.











This is the semi after... i still need to get my stands for the front speakers.











I had to end up cutting the wood so i can set the center because it was to big. Do you think it looks bad?


----------



## Mikeoz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think, and one other spec that might not mean anything, but I'm old school...the 235 weighs 33lb vs 27lbs. This translates to heavier rails and power supply (probably caps too) which should allow it more available current. That's hearsay on my part (not the weight, but my conclusion)...more current means being able to handle transient peaks without clipping. Enjoy your receivers...



I share your same opinion that perhaps the older 235 may have some more solid internals than its younger brother. I remember you mentioning that the 235 was ~33lbs, and saw that the 240 was ~6 lbs lighter, which is pretty considerable imo, and wondered why. Size/weight definetly matters, and I do think manufacturers may tend to cut corners in future lines in an attempt to boost profits (and perhaps they realize they "overbuilt" an old model).


----------



## samsurd2

FYI, if your considering ordering x-series, you may want to take a look at this post in the Speakers forum.








http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849175


----------



## dbrowdy

That's a form letter...someone posted the exact same reply before...somewhere. It's kinda sad, considering all the good things I hear about these speakers.


----------



## slubu

Thanks to all for your help - this thread has basically provided me with the knowledge to avoid a bose system or other HTIB. Now, I have my set complete:


- AV123 X-LS/X-CS combo, 5 speakers in all, in Piano Rosewood

- Bic H-100 sub

- Onkyo 504S receiver

- Flexy rack built by myself


Total cost: 1350 + cables/mounts/stands


Although I wanted to spend maybe about 1k before MAX, I realized this will last me several years and it makes sense in investing in good speakers. Pics to come this weekend.


----------



## LukePiller

I just want to say that this is an excellent thread. It is so easy to get caught up in the ridiculous world of "higher end" audio that one easily forgets how enjoyable it is to simply sit back and be happy with what you have, especially when your on a budget like myself and the majority of those posting in this thread.


I purchased a couple pairs of polk R150's yesterday and to cut through all the tech the bottom line is that they sound good. Hearing things in songs that I have never heard before brought a smile to my face and made me realize audio should not be based on unobtainable products and astonomical prices. It is extremely rewarding to assemble a unique system within your budget that sounds good to you and you can be proud of(and show off to your buddies a bit).


A+ thread.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, if your considering ordering x-series, you may want to take a look at this post in the Speakers forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849175



I thought I replied to this, but the post didn't show up...anyway...I've been told that demand for the x-series has always exceeded projections. Most ID companies try to stay close to "build to order" so as not to carry inventory (stay lean). With the new product introductions, custom finishes, etc., I'm sure it's tough to get ahead of the curve. I've haven't seen anyone disappointed once they got their order.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought I replied to this, but the post didn't show up...anyway...I've been told that demand for the x-series has always exceeded projections. Most ID companies try to stay close to "build to order" so as not to carry inventory (stay lean). With the new product introductions, custom finishes, etc., I'm sure it's tough to get ahead of the curve. I've haven't seen anyone disappointed once they got their order.



I totally understand the business model under which these folks operate. My intention in posting this is purely informational and, if it's a repeat, mea culpa. I'm not slamming AV123 - just thought people who seriously considering their speakers (like me







) might want to crank their availability into the equation.


----------



## buzzy_

Just in case this is of interest - I can't say how these subs compare to others, maybe someone here can. Velodyne sale at Audio Advisor. Good brand with a great warranty, and good store, for what that's worth.

Velodyne VRP 1000 - $200

Velodyne VRP 1200 - $300


I think those prices are shipped, since they don't have the disclaimer that there's no free shipping.

Velodyne site


----------



## sambow87

Was considering the X-Sub and BIC H-100 and made a choice. I found the BIC H-100 for the same price as the X-Sub and decided to pull the trigger.


I can't wait to replace that Onkyo factory sub (HT-S790). Woohoo!


----------



## Judge Vandelay

I have seen lots of helpful information in this thread, as well as other threads. You guys (and gals) seem to be at the top of your game.


My question seems to have been covered numerous times, but if I was looking for a decent (I don't mind putting a system together piece by piece....slowly) receiver, what is my best bang for the buck. It seems like the Onkyo refurb's are a great deal, but should I wait for the new line to come out, or is it a Panny...or what? I know everyone has a different opinion, but I am leaning towards the new lines this year, since I am in no rush.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Judge Vandelay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question seems to have been covered numerous times, but if I was looking for a decent (I don't mind putting a system together piece by piece....slowly) receiver, what is my best bang for the buck.



It's pretty subjective, but the best entry level brands (as opposed to really high end stuff) are Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha, so quality refurbs of any of those are a great start. Others, (like Harmon-Kardon) are priced a little higher, but are also great choices.


Onkyo has their own online store, but if you find either of the other two for comparable prices, it'll definitely work for you.


Other brands like Sony and Panasonic tend to be a little under par by those standards, though some have found them to work well. I'd just go for one of the big three and stretch the dollar further.


----------



## Judge Vandelay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Onkyo has their own online store, but if you find either of the other two for comparable prices, it'll definitely work for you.



Is a refurb'd 504 @ $169 better than a 575 for $350? Again, I know it is a matter of personal preference, but should I go with the better model for the longer haul?


Bottom line is that I want something I can live with for a while, and knowing next to nothing about this subject, help is necessary.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's pretty subjective, but the best entry level brands (as opposed to really high end stuff) are Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha, so quality refurbs of any of those are a great start. Others, (like Harmon-Kardon) are priced a little higher, but are also great choices.
> 
> 
> Onkyo has their own online store, but if you find either of the other two for comparable prices, it'll definitely work for you.
> 
> 
> Other brands like Sony and Panasonic tend to be a little under par by those standards, though some have found them to work well. I'd just go for one of the big three and stretch the dollar further.



Don't forget Harmon Kardon also has a store for refurbs:
http://www.harmanaudio.com/default.asp 

and they have a fleabay store. I bought a DPR-2005 through them for $300, which was an absolute steal, so they are also worth a look.


----------



## buzzy_

You can get the 504 new, shipped at jr.com right now for $160. Or at Amazon for $170. (The xx5 models are just arriving, which should mean some deals on the xx4 models.) If you'd use it, and it has the features you need, it's a good deal.


Though in general - You probably don't want to buy this kind of electronics until you're going to use them, hopefully use them a lot. That's the only way it makes sense, as newer, better, cheaper, etc. ones are always coming out, and something is always on closeout.


----------



## Judge Vandelay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Though in general - You probably don't want to buy this kind of electronics until you're going to use them, hopefully use them a lot. That's the only way it makes sense, as newer, better, cheaper, etc. ones are always coming out, and something is always on closeout.



You make a good point - one that I have considered. If I were to go with the 504 model, the price/features for me is a 100x upgrade than it would be for 90% of this board.


If I were to go this route and get the 504 - speakers would be next, and I have read numerous discussions on the CHTs, but since anything will sound better for me, what choices do I have for a decent speaker setup with $300 left to sepnd (approx.)?


Again, thanks in advance.


----------



## buzzy_

Most of the current options are mentioned in this thread, especially the first post.


Totally separate topic - saw a post on fatwallet that the Polk R300 floorstanders are back in stock at $50 ea. I'm sure there's some discussion in this thread about them, try the "Search this thread" over in the upper right.

http://www.frys.com/product/4965501 

http://www.**************/t/18/732627/


----------



## wayne_trisha

So I spent the afternoon reading all 29 pages. Tons of great advice to be found in this thread. I've currently got a Onkyo HTIB, maybe a 780. I still think it sounds great but after reading and researching about 8 hours today I need to remove this HTIB to what will be my sports room and replace it with individual components. I have a rather large entertainment center that consists of a tv stand in the center, two side towers and the bridge that runs between the towers. I bought it at best buy. I've got a Samsung hp-5073S Plasma TV. TV on one wall and opposite sitting area is 14 ft away. One side is closed in with sliding glass door and other side is openended into the kitchen / living room entrance.


receiver: Onkyo 504 or HK 340.

fronts: Polk monitor 50s

center: matching Polk center, CSi1? can't remember model number

rears: Polk monitor 30s or 40s

sub: BIC H-100

System will be used for 90% tv/dvd and 10% music.


Are these speakers a good match? Any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wayne_trisha* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> receiver: Onkyo 504 or HK 340.
> 
> fronts: Polk monitor 50s
> 
> center: matching Polk center, CSi1? can't remember model number
> 
> rears: Polk monitor 30s or 40s
> 
> sub: BIC H-100
> 
> System will be used for 90% tv/dvd and 10% music.
> 
> 
> Are these speakers a good match? Any advice is greatly appreciated.



the HK 340 is a significant step up from the onkyo in terms of power and features. the polks are solid speakers and you'll see immediate improvement over your HTIB speakers. maybe ron will chime in, he is the resident polk expert.


the Bic H-100 is one of the best subs in the $200 price class. the X-sub looks good too, though it wont be quite as loud or have the extension of the Bic. looks like you're on the right track to me.


----------



## Grogmeister

I am looking for a 5.1 cube speaker system for wall mounting and receiver for a 14 x 16 bedroom and I would like to put an additional in ceiling speaker in the bathroom for a total of $1000. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Wayne

Your on the right track you didnt mention how much you wanted to spend. But from what you selected for what you are saying 90% movies or tv the rears are less important sound output wise. I would get the Monitor 30s for the rear. Maby spend that little extra you were willing to spend on the 40 rears on Monitor 60s up front. You could also go with the 30 rears 50 fronts and grab the CS2 center. For movies the center is the most important channel. I think the 60s are considerd the sweet spot of the polk monitor linup. I have the 50s myself for fronts but i really do like the sound of the 60s. They are just fuller in some way. The 40, 50, and CS1 are all the same drivers but configured diffrently.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wayne
> 
> Your on the right track you didnt mention how much you wanted to spend. But from what you selected for what you are saying 90% movies or tv the rears are less important sound output wise. I would get the Monitor 30s for the rear. Maby spend that little extra you were willing to spend on the 40 rears on Monitor 60s up front. You could also go with the 30 rears 50 fronts and grab the CS2 center. For movies the center is the most important channel. I think the 60s are considerd the sweet spot of the polk monitor linup. I have the 50s myself for fronts but i really do like the sound of the 60s. They are just fuller in some way. The 40, 50, and CS1 are all the same drivers but configured diffrently.



That's the advice I'd give...move up to the 60s and CS2...cut corners on the surrounds...all as budget permits of course.


----------



## wayne_trisha

I wanted to keep it less than $1000. This has been a great thread that has taught me plenty. I'm going to end up having the following system:


receiver: HK 235/240/340 (I need to read more about the differences)

fronts: Polk monitor 60s

rears: Polk monitor 30s

center: Polk CS2

sub: Bic H-100


I'll post back how it sounds when everything makes it here and some photos of how it looks when I get it setup and the cable raceways installed. I'm going to reverse my room when it all gets here so all new cables and some additional raceways.


----------



## Ron Temple

Wayne,


Tweeter puts T90EBs on sale (Euro Monitor 60s) for $349.00/pr fairly regularly. Right now their website shows $349/ea. You might want to call them and get it clarified. $349/pr is a steal...I wouldn't buy at $349.00/ea.

http://www.tweeter.com/family/index....339&sublevel=2


----------



## Ron Temple

I'm changing my tune a bit guys. I've been happy with my 235 for nearly 2 years, I had one crap out, which they replaced at no cost to me. Yesterday, the 2nd one took a dive. I'm sure they will replace it again. My point is, these units sound great and are extremely cheap, but I can't ignore the reliability issue. If you don't mind the possibility of a lemon...then it's a great buy. I know others have had no problems...I just don't want give unqualified recommendations about HK refurb AVRs anymore.


Feel free to flame me, if you bought a refurb based on my previous recommendatoin and it doesn't work out










I picked up a Denon 2307CI to try out. I think I'll like it, sounds great, more features than I need. I'll probably keep it and sell the new refurb they send me.


----------



## superjett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Judge Vandelay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is a refurb'd 504 @ $169 better than a 575 for $350? Again, I know it is a matter of personal preference, but should I go with the better model for the longer haul?
> 
> 
> Bottom line is that I want something I can live with for a while, and knowing next to nothing about this subject, help is necessary.



I ended up getting my 504 refurb for $133 shipped. Onkyo had a 10% off sale, and along with the $10 for signing up, it worked out well. Very pleased with it so far.


----------



## mhraracing

This is a great thread and wanted to thank all of for the great advice. I was going to pick up a HTIB to k.i.s.s. (Keep it Simple Stupid), but I am so glad I didnt. I hit my local Tweeter and picked up a pack of Polk RM20's for really cheap. Then bought an Onkyo 504 from Amazon and hooked it all up yesterday.


The sound is great and I love the reciever - Now I need to pick up a Subwoofer - right now I am leaning towards the X-sub, but I dont want to wait forever.


I am going to give them a call tomorrow to see how long the wait is - if the wait is long - What do you recommend instead ?? I would like to keep the price in the 200-300 range and this will be strickly for HT use only.


Thanks in advance.


edit - Oh yeah - by the way if anyone is looking for a nice easy speaker package for their Pioneer 5070 - the Polk RM20's or 10's system match really nicely !!! The center channel fits perfect on the center stand.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhraracing* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am going to give them a call tomorrow to see how long the wait is - if the wait is long - What do you recommend instead ?? I would like to keep the price in the 200-300 range and this will be strickly for HT use only.



the Hsu STF-1 will be comparable to the X-sub in terms of sound quality, output, and extension...and it is designed by one of the best in the business. the Bic H-100 will be louder and dig deeper, though may not be quite as percussive or musical as the Hsu or X-sub. all three are in your price range.


----------



## Spartan081681

Hello all, this is my first post.


Like many others in this thread I was about to buy a HTIB, but I'm seeing the light now. I think I have picked out a decent setup but want a second opinion before wipping out the plastic.


This is for a smaller bedroom 12x10, using it on a 32" LG lcd mostly for my 360 and on occasion a movie. Sad to say most of time using surround sound will be at lower volumes for I'm usually awake at night when my parents sleep, but I can use it some and crank it up on the weekends.


Being a newbee to surround sound I just picked most of the stuff I liked from suggestions on this thread, with some research on each thing of course.


Onkyo TX-SR504

Polk R150 for fronts and surrounds (I could get PolkM10 at CC $124 a pair, whats better?)

Polk CSR center, recommended for polk150 on their website

Dayton 10" sub, may have to wait on cash.


Will these choices work together well?


I just wanna blow my buddies older Sony 400w HTIB system out of the water, for not much more cost. He keeps telling me building my own system is a waste for where I live that I should just go HTIB, but I understand you can hear quality, its not just how loud you can crank it.


How long will this equipment last?

When I do move out I could get some better Polks for the front and use the rest for 7.1 but thats all in the future.


----------



## Spartan081681

Would this set up be alot better, I can get a R300 for 50 bucks.


Onkyo TX-SR504

Polk R300 fronts

Polk R150 surrounds

Polk CSR center

Dayton 10" sub


Sorry for all the text and thanks for any input on this.


----------



## sambow87

That is pretty much the exact set up I have, except I have onkyo rears (from the HTIB, I upgraded) and the onkyo sub, but that is being replaced by a BIC H-100.


I love my system (R300s, R150s, CSR). Sounds great, looks great, just an all around better package then the HTIB.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spartan081681* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I have picked out a decent setup but want a second opinion before wipping out the plastic.
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR504
> 
> Polk R150 for fronts and surrounds (I could get PolkM10 at CC $124 a pair, whats better?)
> 
> Polk CSR center, recommended for polk150 on their website
> 
> Dayton 10" sub, may have to wait on cash.
> 
> 
> Will these choices work together well?
> 
> 
> Would this set up be alot better, I can get a R300 for 50 bucks.
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR504
> 
> Polk R300 fronts
> 
> Polk R150 surrounds
> 
> Polk CSR center
> 
> Dayton 10" sub.



I think you'll be very happy with either setup, with the exception of the sub. I haven't heard the 10" Dayton myself, but the people who have complain about its boominess and muddy sound, which would really tick off your parents even more. You would be better of saving a little more and buying one of the 3 subs mentioned repeatedly on this thread, the X-sub, HSU STF-1, or the BIC H-100. That system should last you a long time!


----------



## Kanucat

Okay, I think I've finally made up my mind as far as my 3.1 setup:


- Pair of Polk Monitor 60s ($500)

- Polk CS2 center ($270)

- SVS PB10-NSD ($430)


That brings me to a total of about $1,200 + tax & shipping. The only think I'm concerned about is what great reviews I'm hearing about the x-series speakers. It seems like I could save about $300 if I went with the x-sls towers($320) and the x-cs center($130) with the same SVS sub.


Any thoughts?


----------



## dbrowdy

In theory, for the same amount of money you could get a full SVS 5.1 system too. I hear the SVS system with SCS fronts and center and SBS rears is supposed to be significantly better than the regular SBS system and it's only like $100 more. I'm actually already thinking of upgrading my fronts (







) if I can sell a pair of SBS for a good price. It's not that I'm unhappy with my SBS set, it's just that "significantly better" for $100 difference seems worth the money to me, especially for music listening.


And speaking of happy with my system, I was watching the second Matrix movie last night and every time the bass dropped to the vibrating-the-couch-and-rattling-the-windows frequencies, I giggled like a little girl. True I was a bit drunk, but that's not the point. I like me some bass. AND, I talked to my downstairs neighbor yesterday and he hasn't even really noticed the bass much and says it's doesn't particularly bother them anyhow. I made arrangements to invite them up for movie night and now I think I'm good to really crank my system for movies. :-D I'm a happy camper.


D


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay, I think I've finally made up my mind as far as my 3.1 setup:
> 
> 
> - Pair of Polk Monitor 60s ($500)
> 
> - Polk CS2 center ($270)
> 
> - SVS PB10-NSD ($430)
> 
> 
> That brings me to a total of about $1,200 + tax & shipping. The only think I'm concerned about is what great reviews I'm hearing about the x-series speakers. It seems like I could save about $300 if I went with the x-sls towers($320) and the x-cs center($130) with the same SVS sub.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?



All I've heard are the x-ls bookshelf speakers, but I'll bet the x-sls are a big step up. I'm a big fan of Polk, but $500 for M60s is too much and I don't think you get near the refinement or overall SQ. You can find Polk RTi8s online for $500 a pair which might exceed the AV123s (might not too). The sub's a keeper. The biggest difference between the x-series and Polks will be the warmth of the tweeter.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In theory, for the same amount of money you could get a full SVS 5.1 system too. I hear the SVS system with SCS fronts and center and SBS rears is supposed to be significantly better than the regular SBS system and it's only like $100 more. I'm actually already thinking of upgrading my fronts (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) if I can sell a pair of SBS for a good price. It's not that I'm unhappy with my SBS set, it's just that "significantly better" for $100 difference seems worth the money to me, especially for music listening.
> 
> 
> And speaking of happy with my system, I was watching the second Matrix movie last night and every time the bass dropped to the vibrating-the-couch-and-rattling-the-windows frequencies, I giggled like a little girl. True I was a bit drunk, but that's not the point. I like me some bass. AND, I talked to my downstairs neighbor yesterday and he hasn't even really noticed the bass much and says it's doesn't particularly bother them anyhow. I made arrangements to invite them up for movie night and now I think I'm good to really crank my system for movies. :-D I'm a happy camper.
> 
> 
> D



Let me tug on the line you're hooked to...do you have room for 7.1? Deep bass is fun, huh? The "Arriving Somewhere" and PF "Pulse" DVDs both have outstanding deep bass...I'm sure you've checked the first out already.


----------



## dbrowdy

I don't really have to room for 7.1. I've definitely been considering keeping the SBS fronts to use as rear surrounds in a 7.1 setup and then buying new SCS fronts. It's like $350 for the fronts and shipping tho and I can't really validate 7.1 in my space.


And I hate to say it, but I think "Pulse" is garbage. I don't think PF post-Roger Waters should be calling themselves Pink Floyd since they don't sound anything like PF and they don't write music that's anything like PF. I was very disappointed when I bought the CD all those years ago. It's been chucked or sold since.


I am gonna be one of those guys watching crap movies just for the bass...I can see it coming already. My poor poor gf...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am gonna be one of those guys watching crap movies just for the bass...I can see it coming already. My poor poor gf...



Yep...at least initially, though are some quite decent movies that will shine...


Saving Private Ryan

Black Hawk Down (both in DTS)

The Haunting (DTS)...this movie struck me as shlock when I first saw it, but coupled with the DTS soundtrack made me reassess.

LOTR trilogy

Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut is the better movie, though long)

Flight of the Phoenix

Domino

Running Scared

WOTW ( I know you hated it, but it's reference bass - a sub killer)


There's a thread on Subs that goes into this in detail.


----------



## usp1

FInally pulled the trigger on a system. Ended up much higher then I had planned to spend. Here is what I ordered:


Onkyo TX-sr804

Aperion Speakers 533T LR Fronts

533 VAC center

532 rears

s-12 sub


I went with the aperion sub because they give a 30 day no shipping either way trial and so if I dont like it I can always send it back at no cost (same goes for the rest of the speakers -- although I hope not since I have spent way too much time getting to this point... )


Now I am trying to figure out what I will need as far as cables are concerned.


Right now I have a DVD recorder and a dish cable box and an OTA antenna which I need to connect to the receiver. I will also have to connect the receiver to my 50" panny plasma. If I am reading my onkyo literature correctly, I should be able to manage with a single hdmi cable to the tv. ( Not sure if I can route the OTA antenna through the receiver.)


In any case since I have received a lot of sage advice in this forum, I thought Id ask what I need minimally in terms of cables.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FInally pulled the trigger on a system. Ended up much higher then I had planned to spend. Here is what I ordered:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-sr804
> 
> Aperion Speakers 533T LR Fronts
> 
> 533 VAC center
> 
> 532 rears
> 
> s-12 sub
> 
> 
> I went with the aperion sub because they give a 30 day no shipping either way trial and so if I dont like it I can always send it back at no cost (same goes for the rest of the speakers -- although I hope not since I have spent way too much time getting to this point... )
> 
> 
> Now I am trying to figure out what I will need as far as cables are concerned.
> 
> 
> Right now I have a DVD recorder and a dish cable box and an OTA antenna which I need to connect to the receiver. I will also have to connect the receiver to my 50" panny plasma. If I am reading my onkyo literature correctly, I should be able to manage with a single hdmi cable to the tv. ( Not sure if I can route the OTA antenna through the receiver.)
> 
> 
> In any case since I have received a lot of sage advice in this forum, I thought Id ask what I need minimally in terms of cables.



Nice...which finish? You'll have to let us know what they sound like...


----------



## usp1

The cherry veneer. I will post when I get it all set up and break it in for the suggested 20 hours.


----------



## marcsorel

Hey everyone- I've been lurking here for quite a while now, as I'm moving to new digs in a new city in August and will be putting together my first HT setup. I thought I was finally all set on an x-series setup with an x-cs center, x-cs left and rights and x-ls surrounds.


For the price they seem to be the sweetest deal going. However, as I was showing my significant other the web site she pointed out that they're pretty large (I hadn't even noticed). I think I MAY be able to talk her into them (she's particularly concerned about the 8.5" x 13" surrounds), but now I'm having trouble locating a reasonably priced tv stand (for my 46" LCD) that will fit the x-cs in it.


Does anyone have any suggestions/solutions? Where have others placed their x-cs centers?


----------



## sambow87

Ok, so my BIC H-100 came in. Now I had a good post bookmarked with details on how to set it up but apparently it's gone







I've been searching this thread and AVS but I can not find it.


Right now I have all my speakers set to small, double bass on, and crossover at 80 on my Onkyo receiver. With the sub I should set to 80 on the crossover but what for the volume and phase? I figure I also need to set it to Digital 5.1/6.1/7.1 instead of Pro Logic Receiver.


Also would it be best to have it on "on" (i'd just hit the switch) instead of auto on?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now I have all my speakers set to small, double bass on, and crossover at 80 on my Onkyo receiver. With the sub I should set to 80 on the crossover but what for the volume and phase? I figure I also need to set it to Digital 5.1/6.1/7.1 instead of Pro Logic Receiver.



-set speakers to SMALL...you've got that right.


-turn double bass OFF...this sends bass to the sub and the main speakers. you want your sub to handle all the bass exclusively.


-set the crossover on the sub to OFF, bypass, or the highest frequency setting possible. this by-passes the sub's internal cross-over and allows the AVR to manage all the bass.


-your receiver will automatically detect a DD 5.1/6.1/7.1 signal if it is encoded on DVD or in the broadcast, provided you have set audio output to "bitstream" and not PCM.


-i usually leave my sub on the auto setting, but leaving it won't hurt...it uses as many watts as a small nightlight in standby mode.


some threads referenced in the first post that go into more detail:

SVS - Ed Mullen's Subwoofer Setup Tips 

Subwoofer Setup Guide by Bossobass 

Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors by Edward J M 

Audioholics - Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance


----------



## sambow87

Thanks G-Star! I've been reading a lot and still have a few questions. I'm looking at the set up on my Onkyo receiver and I notice double bass is no longer an option (not sure why).


Going to give that a try. I have my phase on 0 degrees and I need to calibrate with my SPL meter. I'm getting the Matrix Trilogy on HD DVD and can't wait to listen to the new bass!


Thanks again!


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marcsorel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> but now I'm having trouble locating a reasonably priced tv stand (for my 46" LCD) that will fit the x-cs in it.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions/solutions? Where have others placed their x-cs centers?



I just saw a tv stand at walmart for 50 " flat panel tvs. I think it had plenty of space for a large ceter channel. I think it was made by Bush ($229) Dont have the number but it had 3 tempered glass shelves and a Steel mast to mount the plasma.If I get a chance tomorrow I'll swing by there and find the exact model number.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking at the set up on my Onkyo receiver and I notice double bass is no longer an option (not sure why).



i could be wrong, but i think double bass is only an option if you're mains are set to LARGE.



> Quote:
> I have my phase on 0 degrees and I need to calibrate with my SPL meter.



setting the phase at 0 works for most people, but you really need a test disc like Avia and an SPL meter to find out for sure. if it is just a 0/180 switch, use whichever setting seems to work the best.


enjoy the new sub...the matrix films are great for putting your new sub through a workout.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marcsorel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> but now I'm having trouble locating a reasonably priced tv stand (for my 46" LCD) that will fit the x-cs in it.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions/solutions? Where have others placed their x-cs centers?



The TV stand I saw at Walmart which might fit your requirement is a Hometrends 50" flat panel console for $229. It is not on their web site.


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i could be wrong, but i think double bass is only an option if you're mains are set to LARGE.
> 
> 
> 
> setting the phase at 0 works for most people, but you really need a test disc like Avia and an SPL meter to find out for sure. if it is just a 0/180 switch, use whichever setting seems to work the best.
> 
> 
> enjoy the new sub...the matrix films are great for putting your new sub through a workout.



On my Onkyo, the double bass is only available when the speakers are set to large. If they changed something on the newer models I have no idea.


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The TV stand I saw at Walmart which might fit your requirement is a Hometrends 50" flat panel console for $229. It is not on their web site.



you have an ikea close by? Or check the website.

You can buy nicer stuff there for alot less.

-Rich


----------



## LugNutX

I've done my best to read through the thread to get opinions, but I'm still left with a few questions:


I was one of the early adopters of the Onkyo HT-S770 HTIB sets, and while it has served it's purpose well, I'm ready for a step up. My theater is rather small, essentially 12' x 12', though not quite a "box". I'm looking for more clarity and a deeper "oomph", without going overboard in my tiny room.


1. Is the receiver (HT-R520) adequate enough to handle new speakers/sub?


2. I know the front speakers and sub will make a huge difference, but are the surrounds worth upgrading as well?


3. Which order (fronts, sub, rear) should I replace the speakers? Where will I notice the biggest impact? I'm thinking about replacing the sub, followed by the fronts, followed by the rears (if necessary).


The following equipment seems to come up:


Bic H-100 sub

SBS/SCS-01 fronts and centers

OR

Some combination of Polks (R300s + CS1/2)


Would these serve me well, given my room dimensions or could I be impressed with something even smaller?


----------



## Mikeoz

Just a heads up for anyone that's interested in the av123 X-sub. I gave them a call and the wait seems like 2-3 weeks till it ships out, so you should receive it in 3-4 weeks from placing the order. I finally pulled the trigger and ordered one for myself, and am done burning $ on the new setup.










The HK-avr235 will be here on fri, so we'll see how that sounds w/ the polk speakers. I'm thinking it should be much improved over the pioneer basic htib receiver!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LugNutX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. Is the receiver (HT-R520) adequate enough to handle new speakers/sub?



Yep...it's a re-badged 502.



> Quote:
> 2. I know the front speakers and sub will make a huge difference, but are the surrounds worth upgrading as well?



The LCR will be the most important upgrade...the surrounds last. Once you start each piece will add dimension, detail and dynamics. The goal is have a synergetic system, timbre matched if possible...doesn't have to done all at once.



> Quote:
> 3. Which order (fronts, sub, rear) should I replace the speakers? Where will I notice the biggest impact? I'm thinking about replacing the sub, followed by the fronts, followed by the rears (if necessary).



For the overall HT experience the sub makes the most impact, a good sub will make mediocre speakers better. That being said, I'd still get at least your fronts first...I'm not sure the Onkyo fronts can keep up with a decent sub and you'll appreciate the sub more with more detail in the soundstage. I'd go LCR, sub, surrounds, receiver.


Your choices are fine...the Polks will throw a larger soundstage than the SBS, but I'd give the nod to their imaging...close though. The H-100 is a fine choice. Yes you will be impressed with almost any speaker choice coming out of a 770, but those are good ones.


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you have an ikea close by? Or check the website.
> 
> You can buy nicer stuff there for alot less.
> 
> -Rich



I looked at IKEA in Chicago last week but didnt find anything where one mounts the TV on a pedestal. Must have missed it. There are some other really nice stands I found online like this one ($391 shipped)

http://www.racksandstands.com/41120X...es-QB1343.html 


But it is a little bulky and I wasn,t sure how sturdy it was.


In any case, I hope the OP (marcsorel) finds what he is looking for.


----------



## onebxr

 http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...umber=00103767 

this looks pretty nice and you can buy a wall mount @ monoprice for like 50.00


----------



## usp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...umber=00103767
> 
> this looks pretty nice and you can buy a wall mount @ monoprice for like 50.00



Cool...Thanks.


----------



## marcsorel

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I've got a few leads from here and the aptly named "Official Flat Panel furniture thread" I'm not too keen on actually mounting my TV, so at this point the TV's going to have to sit on top of whatever I get.

I'd be happy to find something at Ikea (I can't spend more than $300), but the nearest one is quite far away from me and they never list shelf dimensions on site.

If anyone happens to have a Markor TV unit from Ikea, can you tell me how wide the center area is?


thanks!

Marc


----------



## wayne_trisha

Well my system has now changed. Frys has the cherry R50s on sale for 69.99 each so I bought 2. Now to figure out what to match with them for center and rears. I haven't decided which receiver yet but I'm not in a rush.


----------



## marcsorel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...umber=00103767
> 
> this looks pretty nice and you can buy a wall mount @ monoprice for like 50.00



This would be perfect except the max TV width it supports is 43.25" and my TV is 46" wide










I had no idea this would be so tricky...


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marcsorel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This would be perfect except the max TV width it supports is 43.25" and my TV is 46" wide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea this would be so tricky...


 http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...umber=90086805 

this one is long enough


----------



## onebxr

look on the site, there are alot to chose from.

Srry about hijacking the thread, back to the regular scheduled HTIB alternatives.

-Rich


----------



## LugNutX

Ron - Thanks for the reply! I was hoping you would chime in, as you seem to have a ton of experience with the Onkyo HTIBs.


Another quick question, which centers will match with a pair of Polk R300s?


It appears that the Polk CSR is the matching center speaker, is there any benefit or downside to using a CS1 or 2? I'm not overly concerned with extreme volume performance, as my small room doesn't require much.


----------



## Kanucat

Ron gave a pretty good round-up of the Polk centers a while back...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're going Polk...
> 
> 
> The CSi25, CSR, and CSM are the same speaker with different cosmetics and timbre match the R series speakers.
> 
> 
> The CS1 and 2 match the monitor line, but work very well with the R series. Not a total timbre match, but you might prefer the beefier center...has a bit more bass response.
> 
> 
> The CSi3 and 5 match the RTi line. The 5 is the best all round center that Polk makes, it's huge, but it kicks ass. The 3 is much easier to fit in your system and is excellent for dialog. The CSis are brighter than the other lines, but are better made and have better components. If the price is right, you might as well score one. ($25.00 is a no brainer, if the guy is reputable, buy it - check it out first though).
> 
> 
> The Polk lineup all have tonal similarities...as you move up the lines, you get better workmanship and components, better imaging, detail and soundstage, but none are dogs and you can mix lines with good results. For example, I used a CSi3 with my R50 fronts...


----------



## Kanucat

I never really knew I could be this indecisive... but that's all part of the fun I suppose.


Initially I was narrowing my decision down to some Polk Monitor 60s, but at $250 each (the best I can find) I hear they're really not the best price/value.


Then my attention shifted to the av123 x-series... either the x-sls or the x-mtm. They seem to be very popular... but not being able to go out and audition them personally, not the mention the $130 in shipping costs and the 3 week backorder -- meh.


Then someone in the speaker thread pointed me towards these:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASF2%2E2 

Which look very nice, but I haven't heard much about them. They do offer free shipping. Perhaps I will go out tonight and try and give them a quick listen at a local B&M store.


In any case, my question is this: Whether I go with the Polk or the Av123 or whatever else, do I also need to purchase a new AV Receiver? I understand I'm looking at larger floorspeakers, so I'd imagine they'd require more power. But then again I'm very new to this.


What I have now is an old Pio VSX-D514. The manual says it puts out:

Continuous average power output of 100 watts*

per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to

20,000 Hz


Will this be enough to drive a decent 3.1 channel system? Or should I look at getting a new Onkyo or HK?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never really knew I could be this indecisive... but that's all part of the fun I suppose.
> 
> 
> Initially I was narrowing my decision down to some Polk Monitor 60s, but at $250 each (the best I can find) I hear they're really not the best price/value.
> 
> 
> Then my attention shifted to the av123 x-series... either the x-sls or the x-mtm. They seem to be very popular... but not being able to go out and audition them personally, not the mention the $130 in shipping costs and the 3 week backorder -- meh.
> 
> 
> Then someone in the speaker thread pointed me towards these:
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASF2%2E2
> 
> Which look very nice, but I haven't heard much about them. They do offer free shipping. Perhaps I will go out tonight and try and give them a quick listen at a local B&M store.
> 
> 
> In any case, my question is this: Whether I go with the Polk or the Av123 or whatever else, do I also need to purchase a new AV Receiver? I understand I'm looking at larger floorspeakers, so I'd imagine they'd require more power. But then again I'm very new to this.
> 
> 
> What I have now is an old Pio VSX-D514. The manual says it puts out:
> 
> Continuous average power output of 100 watts*
> 
> per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to
> 
> 20,000 Hz
> 
> 
> Will this be enough to drive a decent 3.1 channel system? Or should I look at getting a new Onkyo or HK?



I've heard great things about the Athenas...G-Star has the books and probably can tell you more...the F2.2s are a bright speaker...brighter than Polks...the are efficient, great imaging, good bass response. How they sound I couldn't tell you. A friend on the right coast was running F1s on a Pio and thought they were too bright, probably the same with a Yammie. You would have no problem driving them, but I understand they do sound much better with some real power (separate amp), but I wouldn't worry about it. That's what I know about it...hearsay really...do they offer free return shipping? If so, try them.


----------



## Kanucat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A friend on the right coast was running F1s on a Pio and thought they were too bright, probably the same with a Yammie.



Yeah, I'm hesitant to get something that sounds too bright. I'd like to be able to use the speakers for music as well as HT (Probably about a 50/50 split). I've heard the x-series are a little warmer and thus better for music.


I'm still planning on getting the PB10-NSD sub, so I don't need to be too concerned about a deep, deep bass.


I guess I could just be patient for the x-series to come in, most likely in middle to late June. I like the idea of being able to audition them in my own home, supposedly risk free. I know SVS follows the same business model and their stuff is most likely in stock. Any idea how they compare in terms of brightness and SQ?


----------



## danncer

I am so grateful for all the knowledgable people who post on the AVS Forum. After much reading and much research, I am almost ready to order the following system for my small living room:


Yamaha RX-V661 receiver (the only 7.1 receiver with HDMI switching and phono input that I could find in my price range)

Mission m70 4-speaker surround system with m7C1i center

x-sub from av123


I can get this 5.1 setup for just over $900 shipped. I'm hoping that the Mission m7ds Bipole surround speakers will still be available in a couple of months so that I can create a full 7.1 system by the end of summer for approximately $1,060 total.


My only hesitation is whether it would be worth the extra money (and the wait) to get an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver when it comes out in July instead of the Yamaha.


FYI, I already have a Panasonic TH-42PX600U plasma and an Oppo 971 DVD player, and I'll be using the system for about 70% HT and 30% music.


I'd appreciate any suggestions/comments you may have.


----------



## Kanucat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know SVS follows the same business model and their stuff is most likely in stock. Any idea how they compare in terms of brightness and SQ?



Eh, scratch that -- It looks like all they carry at the moment is books. I pretty much have my heart set on some floorstanding units.


----------



## tooskinny

I've been reading about turning off the crossover on the sub, but the only options I have is internal crossover or subwoofer direct. What should I set it at so the receiver will work as the crossover?


Thanks


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danncer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My only hesitation is whether it would be worth the extra money (and the wait) to get an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver when it comes out in July instead of the Yamaha.



As of today, the Yamaha RX-V661 was added to the list of Level 6 AVRs in Post #1 of the "Future Proof" receiver thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511 ). I'd say you've made the correct choice.


----------



## danncer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As of today, the Yamaha RX-V661 was added to the list of Level 6 AVRs in Post #1 of the "Future Proof" receiver thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511 ). I'd say you've made the correct choice.



Thanks, samsurd2! You are one of several forum members whose posts have really helped me narrow down the best system for my needs and budget.










I do have one slight correction to your post. From what I read, it looks like the Yamaha RX-V661 was added to the list of Level 5 receivers, not Level 6. Fortunately, Level 5 is all that I'll probably need for the next several years so it's still good news.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danncer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do have one slight correction to your post. From what I read, it looks like the Yamaha RX-V661 was added to the list of Level 5 receivers, not Level 6. Fortunately, Level 5 is all that I'll probably need for the next several years so it's still good news.



It actually is Level 6 but the text in that post is confusing - it defines Level 6 as Level 5 PLUS additional characteristics









*Levels of receivers:*

1) 5.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1 analog input channels and provide all three processing stages.

Examples: Virtually all 5.1 receivers.

.

.

.

6) Level 5 receivers (*here's the PLUS*) that process 7.1 channels of uncompressed lossless HDMI PCM formats.

Examples: All latest HDMI Denons. Yamaha RX-V661/HTR-6090 and higher. Pioneer Elite 81TXV and higher.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Eh, scratch that -- It looks like all they carry at the moment is books. I pretty much have my heart set on some floorstanding units.



The x-series are very warm, wonderful for smooth jazz and female vocals, plenty of detail, but soft at the top. The Athenas I believe have aluminum tweets. The difference will be stark in my estimation. That's not a knock on the Athenas, many prefer their sound.


If you can wait...the x's are a nice music first speaker, depending on your taste in content and any musical speaker will be fine for HT.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've heard great things about the Athenas...G-Star has the books and probably can tell you more...the F2.2s are a bright speaker...brighter than Polks...the are efficient, great imaging, good bass response. How they sound I couldn't tell you.



the athena B1.2's are a great deal at $100/pr. i don't know much firsthand about the floorstanders, except that i've heard from a lot of happy owners. of course, as you go up the food chain, it will only get better. i have no doubts that the AV123 or SVS speakers (for example) are clearly better performers.


one man's bright is another man's detailed, so it is tough to say for sure. i for one find the aluminum tweeters to make the music "pop", and blended in correctly with a linear, capable sub (SVS PB-10) is a great combination. i've driven the athenas with an onkyo and H/K receiver, and i prefer the H/K...a bit warmer, richer, and more detailed sound.


unless you're dead set on floorstanders, i think the better investment is to go for bookshelf speakers and a better sub. music will sound almost as good, and the benefits for HT are enormous with a sub that can hit the lowest octaves with authority.


hope you find this helpful. let us know what you went with.


----------



## hsieh

Hi,


I was hoping someone could help me. I have an onkyo tx-sr504 receiver. When I play a music cd in a dvd player (connected to the receiver via a digital optical cable) and put it in "stereo" mode, my subwoofer (hsu stf-1) doesn't work (I don't feel any vibration coming from the down-firing sub). The sub works when I've got it on other settings ("PLII music", etc.)


Any ideas on what I did wrong?


Thanks


----------



## shindokie

Well g-star i ended up getting the the B.1's and C.1's. Man they sound so clean. I have to put up the pic but ill do it some other time. Thanks a lot for the info guy's. i shouldve have been smart and saved instead of buying a htib, but I ended up getting some good speakers. Now for that sub. Ill give it a month or two. Thank you!


----------



## peoe2

I've been reading a lot and am a little lost so need your help. My requirement for a home theater system is to watch HD in surround sound. I also want something decent to listen to music. My plasma TV has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 optical output. I plan on taking the optical out from the TV and connect it to the receiver. I don't really need HDMI on the receiver and upscaling is a plus but not a requirement for me. I want something that will allow me to hook an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player in the future and enjoy whatever surround sound will come from it (TrueHD?).


I live in an apartment and my combined living room/dining room is 13x20 feet.

I was initially looking at a wireless HTIB for convenience but heard there may be buzzing and interference problems with Wi-Fi (I'm in a building) so started looking at the Onkyo HT-SR600 and SR700. My budget was initially $300 but now I'm willing to go up to $550. Here is what I need help with, what's the best option?


Option 1: Onkyo HT-SR800. Just because I keep reading good things about it. I can get it for $425 shipped with my corporate discount and add better wires.


Option 2: Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver and Polk RM6750BK 5.1 speaker system. Total would be $533 + wires.


Option 3: Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver and Infinity TSS-450PLT 5.1 speaker system. Total would be $449 + wires.


What do you think I should go with, or maybe an option 4?


----------



## LugNutX

Thanks to everyone for the help. My Onkyo HT-S770 is going to be replaced with:


Polk R300 left and right

Polk CS1 center

BIC H-100 sub


Got everything for a little over $500 shipped, so I'm pleased. I am keeping the surrounds and receiver from the Onkyo HTIB for the time being, as they should be adequate until "the bug" bites again.


I am breaking down the theater to paint this weekend (dark blue), and will be replacing some of my posters as well. Add in the new speakers and I'm looking at a nice HT overhaul!

















...now to figure out what to do with the leftover HTIB speakers/sub. Anyone found a good use for these? Unfortunately, it seems like I wouldn't get more than a few bucks out of them on Craigslist/eBay, etc.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LugNutX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...now to figure out what to do with the leftover HTIB speakers/sub. Anyone found a good use for these? Unfortunately, it seems like I wouldn't get more than a few bucks out of them on Craigslist/eBay, etc.



you'd be surprised...i got $110 for my onkyo sub and $125 for the 5.0 onkyo speaker set. have some patience and you'll be able to sell it, and make the cost of upgrading even less.










let us know what you think of the new speakers and sub...they should run circles around the HTIB gear.


----------



## Muncher17

In looking around on craigslist, I found a pair of used Athena AS-B1-1 for sale for a decent price. Do you guys have any idea how the B1-1 matches up with the B1.2? Is there a big difference between these 2 models other than the B1.2 being newer?


Would there be timbre problems in matching up B1-1 fronts with a C1.2 center?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muncher17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In looking around on craigslist, I found a pair of used Athena AS-B1-1 for sale for a decent price. Do you guys have any idea how the B1-1 matches up with the B1.2? Is there a big difference between these 2 models other than the B1.2 being newer?
> 
> 
> Would there be timbre problems in matching up B1-1 fronts with a C1.2 center?



All of the Athena Audition original and later versions are made to be matched with each other. This also includes the point 5 series speakers.


The B1 and B1.2 are basically the same speaker, as with all the updated speakers in the series, the driver is a different color and the cabinet on the .2 series is not as thick as the original series, this makes the original series speakers a bit heavier than the later versions, only difference.


You'll have no problems mixing and matching any of the audition series and or the point5 series speakers with each other.


----------



## Muncher17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All of the Athena Audition original and later versions are made to be matched with each other. This also includes the point 5 series speakers.
> 
> 
> The B1 and B1.2 are basically the same speaker, as with all the updated speakers in the series, the driver is a different color and the cabinet on the .2 series is not as thick as the original series, this makes the original series speakers a bit heavier than the later versions, only difference.
> 
> 
> You'll have no problems mixing and matching any of the audition series and or the point5 series speakers with each other.



Thanks! That's exactly what I was hoping to hear


----------



## MEJHarrison

First of all, thanks for this thread. It's perfect for what I'm looking for. My current system was one of the cheapest HTIB systems I could get at Best Buy 5 years ago. I've always known it was crap, but I was also stuck with an old 27 SD set and a dirt cheap DVD player.


Now it's 5 years later and I finally have a nice 56 1080p set (Samsung HL-S5687) I picked up right before Christmas. And last Sunday I picked up a Toshiba HD-D2 from CostCo. Hardware wise it's nothing more than an HD-A2. I had planned on upgrading my sound system later on at some unspecified point. But then I discovered that the player decodes all the fancy new HD tracks and converts them to DTS tracks. Unfortunately, my old receiver can't decode DTS signals, so for now I'm stuck with 2.0 sound. So I'm accelerating my sound system upgrade. It will still probably be a month or two before I get to it since we have a kid turning 10 in less than a month and we're planning a big vacation in July. But I'm starting to plan now.


Anyway, I'm thinking of starting with a receiver. My current speakers are about as good as tin cans on a string, but with a new receiver, they'll get me by. Then I'll save some more and upgrade to some decent front speakers and a center. Later I'll replace the rears and was thinking of saving the sub for the end. Does that sound like a good plan?


My next big problem is the room where I have everything setup is a nightmare for a sound system. I'm really not sure what I should get and where I can put it all. I've included some pictures I took this evening and was hoping that people here could give me some good ideas. I've love to move everything to living room which is a lot more square, but I'm not sure my wife would agree to give it up. So I'm trying to make the best of the situation.


Here's a shot from behind the soft to where the TV is located. It's a little hard to see, but there not much space on either site of the TV stand for speakers. If you look up near the ceiling, you can see where I had the old speakers mounted on the right. But on the left it would be right over the fireplace and my wife wouldn't be too happy if I removed the picture to put up a speaker (although she'd live








)


Next up is a shot from behind the TV . You can see one speaker mounted up to the right. It's not a bad location, but as you can see from this picture , the speaker on the other side really isn't in the best location and there's not much I can do about that.


And just to round things out, here's a shot of the other side of the room. As you can see, it's a nightmare. So I'm hoping someone has some better ideas of how to set things up. It probably won't happen soon, but I'd like to start planning so I'm ready for when the time comes. And even though I might not have the greatest situation at this point for good sound, I am trying to look ahead to the future. I know my wife wants to move in a few years, so I'm hoping the next place will have a space that's a little more home theater friendly. So I don't mind buying equipment at this point that might not be ideal for the current environment. I'm sure whatever I get will be better than what I currently have.


So, what do you think of that space? What would be the best approach for speaker placement? My youngest is now almost 5. Obviously mounting up near the ceiling was a big plus when he was still a baby, but I feel more comfortable moving things down lower now that he's a little older if that's a better solution.


----------



## SaveMeJebus

So this past weekend I finally solved the center channel speaker dilemma (the CSi3 just wouldn't fit anywhere it was too damn big).


Took a trip to Home Depot, and with $20 spent and an hour or so playing with lumber, I now have a functional center speaker (and huge thanks to whoever it was that suggested rubber door stops to tilt the speaker down... they actually are quite practical!).


It's big and ugly, and I never bothered to paint it, but it's completely invisible while you're watching tv.


View from the couch:











Up close and personal:











Top down:


----------



## etrammel

Hey guys....I'm in the process of upgrading my outdated system. 6 months ago I purchased a 46" Sammy DLP and have been running it along with an old kenwood receiver and my Infinity SM255's. I would like to keep the 255's as a part of my system because they are great for highs and the 15's kick. Is it feasible to replace the receiver and just buy rears??? Would the system sound out of balance? Toss the 255's?


----------



## dbrowdy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So this past weekend I finally solved the center channel speaker dilemma (the CSi3 just wouldn't fit anywhere it was too damn big).
> 
> 
> Took a trip to Home Depot, and with $20 spent and an hour or so playing with lumber, I now have a functional center speaker (and huge thanks to whoever it was that suggested rubber door stops to tilt the speaker down... they actually are quite practical!).
> 
> 
> It's big and ugly, and I never bothered to paint it, but it's completely invisible while you're watching tv.



That looks great! One of these days I'm gonna be a guy that can go to a hardware store and build something useful from scratch. I swear it!!


Oh and you're welcome. I read that idea somewhere else and thought I'd pass it along as it sounded pretty handy. You can even move the stoppers in and out to adjust the angle! I needed something in the front to tily my center up so I didn't use a stopper. I actually just stuffed the little vinyl case than came with my SPL meter under the front and it's the perfect angle and you can't see it at all. So ghetto, but it works for now.


----------



## pm2501

MEJHarrison, is it possible for you to move the TV so that it's to the left of your office (?) door? Seems like it'd still be in the center of that wall (when you include the hallway) and would allow you to set up your speaker config properly. The big issues are where the couch is in relation to the fireplace and the sliding glass door.


I was going to suggest mounting the TV over the fireplace until I realized it's a DLP set... a little thick for that.


Of course, you could go all-out and add a new room off the sliding glass door just for a home theater


----------



## MEJHarrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MEJHarrison, is it possible for you to move the TV so that it's to the left of your office (?) door? Seems like it'd still be in the center of that wall (when you include the hallway) and would allow you to set up your speaker config properly. The big issues are where the couch is in relation to the fireplace and the sliding glass door.



Hmm. It certainly wouldn't be the "center" of the wall, but it would be fairly close. Although, since it's double doors there, it could certainly shift over more and even completely block one door which would center it. My concern is the couch would be backed up to the patio doors and we need access to those. Then I'd have to do some crawling under the house to move the satellite cables coming in.


Anyway, that's a great idea and worth looking into. Thanks!



> Quote:
> Of course, you could go all-out and add a new room off the sliding glass door just for a home theater



That's a cool idea of course, but probably more than my wife is willing to spend on this project. She's wanting to get out of this house at some point, not settle in more.










My other though was to pull the TV stand out a little and see if I could get some speakers on stands squeezed in there. Would that place them a little too close together? I've not measured the angles, but from my research it seems that they're supposed to be about 22°-30°. I should investigate this weekend.


----------



## pm2501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MEJHarrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmm. It certainly wouldn't be the "center" of the wall, but it would be fairly close. Although, since it's double doors there, it could certainly shift over more and even completely block one door which would center it. My concern is the couch would be backed up to the patio doors and we need access to those. Then I'd have to do some crawling under the house to move the satellite cables coming in.
> 
> 
> Anyway, that's a great idea and worth looking into. Thanks!



Having enough room to access the sliding door would squeeze the space quite a bit, but perhaps that's a worthy option. No offense, but the room doesn't _appear_ to be overly large. The space itself is a bit of a conundrum. If the fireplace was in the corner where the TV is now, the whole thing would be a sinch. Aren't there wall mounts for DLPs? I fear it would be a bit ugly, but it might be another option to mount it over the fireplace... and when the price of 1080p plasmas and LCDs drop into your price range, the DLP could be sold or moved into the bedroom.


As far as HTiB alternatives - My vote for receivers still leans to Onkyo in terms of _price_ and performance value. There are better AVRs out there, but Onkyo tends to come in on top when balancing budget with quality. I'm not too keen on their 1080p support, though, and there may be better alternatives.


----------



## MEJHarrison

No, the room isn't very large. Which really makes this a pain. The living room is a lot more ideal for this, but I'm not sure how happy my wife would be to loose that room.


I did do some quick measurements today while I was home for lunch. I thought it would be very cramped, but a first glance, it appears moving things around would put us roughly the same distance from the screen. My wife would hate it since she enjoys being able to see the TV from the computer desk, but she'd get over it. If only we could get rid of the fireplace, everything would work out great. It would also be nice to rip down the wall between the office and family room, but that's a bigger project than I can take on. Especially since we don't plan to stay there for too long.


I think at this point, I might just have to get by until we move. But I do still need to replace the receiver at the very least since the current one doesn't work with the new HD player.


----------



## pm2501

I'm guessing that your wife would be more open to speaker stands than moving the room around, moving the TV into the living room or knocking down walls.


Such as is the case, I'd suggest that you find a good HTiB alternative that gives you a great 5.1 experience, but has expansion capabilities for 6.1 or 7.1.


----------



## Mikeoz

Well good news.. I got my HK avr235 and it sounds night and day better than the HTIB receiver. No surprise, the original receiver had very high crossover points. Overall I love the sound w/ the Polk R50's. They're good speakers and great for the $.


The only downside is now I'm waiting on the x-sub and yes, like people mentioned, a sub is needed as these don't have quite enough bass. I think they're pretty good for music which isn't bass heavy. I have the csi25 center channel and it sounds great. Overall the 3.1 setup should be a great setup for the bedroom.


The one gripe/issue I'm having w/ the HK 235 seems to be that I got a defective remote..







When I press some buttons to change sources on the receiver it sometimes lights up another source and sends that signal to the receiver (absolutely driving me nuts). I thought it was me for a while, or some setup issue, but I'm starting to think it's just the remote. For example.. when pressing the AVR button, it frequently will light up/select the Vid4 button, and it may take multiple presses to actually get the avr button to work. The DVD button sometimes lights up/selects the Vid3 button. Has anyone seen this kind of issue before? It's absolutely driving me nuts. I've never had a remote act like this, usually if it goes bad it stops working all together. Any advice is appreciated, so I can get a replacement. Thanks!


----------



## dbrowdy

I'm loving my Logitech Harmony 550 remote. It's controlling the TV, AVR, Oppo and even my super old (10+ years) Kenwood CD changer. Got it on ebay for about $80 shipped. I only use the original remote for some sound tweaking/OSD stuff.


D


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm loving my Logitech Harmony 550 remote. It's controlling the TV, AVR, Oppo and even my super old (10+ years) Kenwood CD changer. Got it on ebay for about $80 shipped. I only use the original remote for some sound tweaking/OSD stuff.
> 
> 
> D



if i have one complaint about the H/K 235, its that the remote stinks....small buttons, bad layout. i never had the problems described, but i went with a harmony 880 after getting some BB gift cards for the holidays, and it solved all my remote problems...nice little toy.


the remote behavior being described isn't normal though, contact H/K for a new one if you can't resolve it.


----------



## MEJHarrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm2501* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that your wife would be more open to speaker stands than moving the room around, moving the TV into the living room or knocking down walls.



Thanks for all the advice on speaker placement. I'm planning to hit Circuit City over the weekend to check out some options on the speakers. I'm not sure what I'll end up doing at this point, but I'll figure something out. I think seeing what the various options are in person would be a big help. I'm thinking of checking out some speaker stands to see if that's really an option or not. Once I know what I can do, that will help me decide what the best course of action is. I'd hate to move everything to the other room (although it's more square and about double the size).


Anyway, what about receivers? Regardless of the speaker situation, I'd like to get something that will work with my HD-D2 player. I some someone in another thread asking about the Onkyo 504/505 and was told that he'd have to go to the 604/605 to be able to play all the various HD options. Assuming that's true, I'm currently looking at the Onkyo 604. Will that do everything my HD player can throw at it? Is it pretty future proof?


----------



## MEJHarrison

Got my receiver. Onkyo 604.










I first went to Circuit City today. I found the Onyko 604 and checked it out. Had to find it myself since it seems the sales guys were more interested in gossiping and never bothered to ask if I wanted help.







Anyway, it looked very nice and when I was able to track down a sales guy, he said they'd price match the online price of $350 which isn't bad. But I didn't get it.


I also checked out speaker stands and don't see why they couldn't work for me (except for the fact that my wife hated them








). I looked at speakers for a little while but didn't try any out at this point. Mainly because the sales guys were nowhere in sight.


Then we went to Fry's where the 604 was marked down to $319! I decided that was too good to pass up and picked one up. But when it came time to check out, it rang up for $255!!!







And that was the price for a brand new one, not a return or refurbished model. I haven't done all my research yet since I wasn't planning on buying today, but from the little I've seen, that seems like an incredible price.


Next up, I need to replace the speakers. But I think I'll hold off for a few months on that.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MEJHarrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got my receiver. Onkyo 604.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we went to Fry's where the 604 was marked down to $319! I decided that was too good to pass up and picked one up. But when it came time to check out, it rang up for $255!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next up, I need to replace the speakers. But I think I'll hold off for a few months on that.



Memorial weekend sale...congrats...Polk RTi8s are on sale for $400/pr, normally $700. A seriously good deal if you've got the coin.


----------



## oofie810




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MEJHarrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got my receiver. Onkyo 604.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we went to Fry's where the 604 was marked down to $319! I decided that was too good to pass up and picked one up. But when it came time to check out, it rang up for $255!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that was the price for a brand new one, not a return or refurbished model. I haven't done all my research yet since I wasn't planning on buying today, but from the little I've seen, that seems like an incredible price.



What part of the country are you located at? I hope my local Fry's has the same deal with the 604, I've been wanting to get one, but couldn't because of budget constraints.


----------



## MEJHarrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oofie810* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What part of the country are you located at? I hope my local Fry's has the same deal with the 604, I've been wanting to get one, but couldn't because of budget constraints.



I'm in Portland Oregon. Don't know where you are, but I hope you have the same luck I did.


----------



## getmyrunon

MEJHarrison - thanks for your post. Same price (319 listed, 255 at the register -- it was a return but everything looks good/functional) when purchased at the Frys in Palo Alto, CA. Unfortunately I got the last one, but it's worth checking other Frys at this appears good...


----------



## oofie810

Wow, you guys are just lucky. I checked my Fry's here at San Diego, and no luck. They were selling the 604 only as a set, so it will come with 7 Polk speakers. Oh well.


----------



## Confusedsoul

Well my first custom all similar HT system has been assembled.


To replace my Onkyo HTiB speakers, I will be getting 3 pairs of these:


Acoustic Research ARVP25


and the subwoofer will be


SVS PB10-NSD in white


Total you ask?


Check this:


3 pair ARVP25 = $162 shipped.

1 PB10-NSD B-stock = $375 shipped.


Hows $537 sound? Man I love the internet.


----------



## getmyrunon

Now that I have a receiver I'm finally putting everything together. I've been lurking around and I think I have an idea of what I want, but I'd like some final advice before I pull the trigger on speakers.


1) Is there any advantage to getting 2 R300s + 2 R150s as opposed to 4 R300s? (12x12 room, 99% HT usage) The prices are pretty much identical after factoring in shipping + stands for the 150s, so I figure I'll get more out of the R300s, right?


2) Are the X-Sub/Bic worth a $90 price increase over the Velodyne VX-10? I want to go with the X-Sub for looks alone but I'm not sure if it's worth it... I honestly don't really have an idea what a "good" subwoofer should sound like as all I've had is a Harmon Kardon iSub attached to my computer for a few years










3) Does Frys temporarily remove stock from their website? The CSi25 doesn't even turn up on a search... you think it might come back, or have they just stopped carrying it? I can get a Cs1 from Ebay for 125 shipped, does that sound worth it?


Thanks guys!


----------



## Ron Temple

1. It's a matter of space, but you have the equation right...4 R300s will sound better for multichannel music, too.


2. The VX10 is musicall, but both the Bic and the x-sub will outperform it.


3. The CSi25 does come back on from time to time, the CSR and CSM are the same speaker, just different cosmetics...the CS1 is a good match as well if you don't want to wait.


----------



## tooskinny

I am currently switching out speakers on the onkyo HT-S680. I have Polk R150's for fronts, Velodyne sub and the Onkyo speakers for center and surround. The problem is I can max out the volume on the receiver while listening to music and it doesn't seem that loud. The receiver that came with it is Onkyo HT-R430. I have the crossover set to 80hz with the subs crossover bypassed and all speakers set to small. I have tried listening to just stereo or prologic II music, but still not ear hurting load. Could it be that this receiver just doesn't have the oomph to produce that load of music?


----------



## eney2517

I'm looking for some help with purchasing a new 5.1 speaker system.

I just bought a house and my big floor speakers are just too big for my room.


I'm looking to hang my TV and Speakers on the wall. Now I'm looking for a new set of speakers for a room size of 12.6' X 14'


I have a budget of about $1000 dollars. I was looking at possibly buying the Mirage Nanosat 5.1 system. Is there a reason I shouldn't get these and any suggestion for a different set-up.


----------



## l2k

I'm having a debate over these two choices of speaker systems. One is quite a bit more expensive than the other, but i'm thinking it might be better in the long run. This is for both movies and (rock/alternative) music. The room that the setup will be in is mid - large sized.


Onkyo 504 or 604

Polk R15 - fronts & surround

Polk - Center

One of the 10" Velodyne subs


or


Onkyo 504 or 604

AV123 x-ls - fronts

AV123 x-cs - center

Polk r14 or r15 - rears /////////don't want the whole x-series set because of room space & $$

hsu vtf-1 sub


Any suggestions? You think it would be worth spending the extra money on the second set?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tooskinny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am currently switching out speakers on the onkyo HT-S680. I have Polk R150's for fronts, Velodyne sub and the Onkyo speakers for center and surround. The problem is I can max out the volume on the receiver while listening to music and it doesn't seem that loud. The receiver that came with it is Onkyo HT-R430. I have the crossover set to 80hz with the subs crossover bypassed and all speakers set to small. I have tried listening to just stereo or prologic II music, but still not ear hurting load. Could it be that this receiver just doesn't have the oomph to produce that load of music?



If it will produce 30 wpc, you should be getting close to 100dbs at 3 meters...that would probably pop the tweeters though. The R150s are 89db sensitivity, 1w/1m. That's 83db at 3 meters or 98dbs @ 32w @. The Rs IMO shouldn't be driven that loud as they tend to lose cohesion and start distorting. They will play louder, but I doubt the Onkyo 430. It's probably clipping ~ 30wpc with a full load (all 5 or 7 channels). I'd turn it down until you can afford to upgrade your receiver.


----------



## tooskinny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If it will produce 30 wpc, you should be getting close to 100dbs at 3 meters...that would probably pop the tweeters though. The R150s are 89db sensitivity, 1w/1m. That's 83db at 3 meters or 98dbs @ 32w @. The Rs IMO shouldn't be driven that loud as they tend to lose cohesion and start distorting. They will play louder, but I doubt the Onkyo 430. It's probably clipping ~ 30wpc with a full load (all 5 or 7 channels). I'd turn it down until you can afford to upgrade your receiver.



Thanks for the info. I usually only use this set up for HT but sometimes I listen to sirius and noticed it wasn't that loud.


So If I stepped up the receiver to a HK or better Onkyo I should get a better punch from the system.


----------



## Ron Temple

HK will definitely be punchier...The difference between the 6xx and 5xx Onkyo's are features. SQ is about the same. 3db gain in volume = double the watts, so 15 watts difference is not going to make a ton of impact.


----------



## slubu

I need help with something: I recently setup my av123 5 speaker system, and although the surround speakers work (I did the test thing with my Onkyo 504 where it shoots sound to each individual speaker, and that works fine), I really don't get that much sound from the surrounds. If I put a stool up and go listen, I hear some faint music/sound, but most of the sound comes from the front speakers. Is this normal? What if I want the surrounds to make as much volume as the fronts (say when i'm listening to music), is that possible?


I'm pretty new to the audio game, so maybe surrounds are supposed to be this subdued? Any info would be very appreciated.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I put a stool up and go listen, I hear some faint music/sound, but most of the sound comes from the front speakers. Is this normal? What if I want the surrounds to make as much volume as the fronts (say when i'm listening to music), is that possible?



yes, this is normal for most dolby or DTS surround modes...the front 3 do the heavy lifting. if you want all channels to be playing at full volume, try "all channel stero" or "5 channel stereo". of course, all your channels should be closed to balanced in the receiver trims.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> of course, all your channels should be closed to balanced in the receiver trims.



thanks g-star. excuse the ignorance, but what does that above statement mean?


----------



## oofie810




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks g-star. excuse the ignorance, but what does that above statement mean?



I think he meant that your channels (Front Left, Center, Front right, etc.) should be balanced, meaning they produce almost the same loudness in your viewing position. You could do this with an SPL meter. See this link about Audio Level adjustments.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/sp...d-sound-system


----------



## Ron Temple

slubu, the surrounds in movies are hit and miss depending on the content. If you want aggressive surround mixes start looking at the Surround Formats Forum. There's quite a bit of DVD A and SACD content that will do the trick with your new speaks. How do you like them?


----------



## rightbackin

Hi guys, very nice thread.


I've been reading this thread intensely over the past month and narrowed my choices to the velodyne chts/h-100 and av123 x-ls/x-cs/x-sub (more of a choice between price). Just checked the velodyne site and noticed that the chts are sold out, so I guess that narrows my choice to the av123 (hopefully I can purchase it over the year...or two). I'm also thinking about purchasing a Yamaha RX-V661 receiver to complete the system.


I've read that the Yamaha RX-V661 sounds bright and the av123 x-ls sound warm. What determines the overall sound, the receiver or the speakers? Thanks!


----------



## gottachopwood

Hey I'm building a HT system but probably listen to music more than movies. I'm on a buget and was leaning towards getting:


4 R300s

CSi25

VX-10


I know a lot of reviews have said that the 300s are weak on music...any thoughts? I was also surprised that more people tend to like the sound out of the R300s as apposed to the R50s.


I'm also thinking aobut scratching the R300 idea - even though I got them less than $50 a pop for something else...


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> slubu, the surrounds in movies are hit and miss depending on the content. If you want aggressive surround mixes start looking at the Surround Formats Forum. There's quite a bit of DVD A and SACD content that will do the trick with your new speaks. How do you like them?



They are absolutely gorgeous speakers. I opted for the Piano Rosewood finish. I will post some pics soon. The speakers are tremendous for music, playing very warm and non-fatiguing. For Home Theater, they seem to have this echo-ish type sound, I can't really describe it. Maybe it can be described as not very crisp in terms of conversation reproduction. I think it has to do with settings or something, I haven't calibrated anything.


I will check out the surround forum - I am just hoping I did not mess up on the placement of the speakers, as they are wallmounted now and basically not moveable (although adjustible on tilt/angle).


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are absolutely gorgeous speakers. I opted for the Piano Rosewood finish. I will post some pics soon. The speakers are tremendous for music, playing very warm and non-fatiguing. For Home Theater, they seem to have this echo-ish type sound, I can't really describe it. Maybe it can be described as not very crisp in terms of conversation reproduction. I think it has to do with settings or something, I haven't calibrated anything.
> 
> 
> I will check out the surround forum - I am just hoping I did not mess up on the placement of the speakers, as they are wallmounted now and basically not moveable (although adjustible on tilt/angle).



You definitely need to calibrate and placement is an issue (I know because in my current room, I can't optimally place my fronts the way they are meant to be setup...just have to live with it for awhile). It sounds like you might be out of sync with your speaker distance...make sure you're accurate to the LP, then play with speaker angle to give you the largest sweetspot.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gottachopwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey I'm building a HT system but probably listen to music more than movies. I'm on a buget and was leaning towards getting:
> 
> 
> 4 R300s
> 
> CSi25
> 
> VX-10
> 
> 
> I know a lot of reviews have said that the 300s are weak on music...any thoughts? I was also surprised that more people tend to like the sound out of the R300s as apposed to the R50s.
> 
> 
> I'm also thinking aobut scratching the R300 idea - even though I got them less than $50 a pop for something else...



The Rs are only weak on music compared to much better speakers...for $100 you can't do better unless you buy off craigslist. I preferred the R50s to 30s...haven't heard the 300s.


----------



## Fragster

Currently have S790 stock speakers,Sub right now but I'd like to upgrade the fronts to floor-standing speakers and move the Onkyo fronts as rear surrounds.


Anybody has any recommendations for some decent entry-level floor standing speakers thats still better sounding than the Onkyo fronts? My budget is strictly under $300 for the pair.


I was looking at these for starters::
http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Venue-Stag...0554924&sr=1-8 


Tia

Frag


----------



## Bruce Wayne

O.K. , So i got a confirmed price on my next receiver that I will order in about a week. So my system is (will be) as follows.


Infocus IN72 -------------- $450.00

Screen---------------------- $100.00

Polk R300 (4 each) ------ $ 59.00

Polk CSi25 ---------------- $ 78.00

Yamaha RX-V659 -------- $ 260.00

Monoprice 50' comp cbl--$ 35.00

Toshiba DVD player ------$ FREE


For a grand total of ------$1159.00


All of which is set up in the family room. Who says you have to break the bank to have a great setup. All I need now is a great sub and an OPPO player, I could possibly pick these up and still be under $1500.00 for the whole deal. Man this is a fantastic forum.


----------



## slubu

...


----------



## usp1

Quick report on my new system


After much advice on this forum, I finally went ahead with the following system


Onkyo 804

Aperion 533t LR

Aperion 532VAC center

Aperion 432 bookshleves for th rears

Aperion s-12 sub


I havent hooked up the sub yet because i am still waiting on the sub cable.


SO far the speakers have been very good. Very detailed, a tad harsh at very high volumes. But it may be my room. (Wood floors and dry wall...rings like a bell sometimes) Overall I am quite happy with the set-up. The 533T seem to have a good soundstage, good highs but lw end is weak. Should get fixed once the sub gets in the mix. I will post more details after I have everything functioning.


Thanks G-Star, Ron Temple and others who gave valuable advice.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should I make any adjustments to the surrounds?



No pics came through...


----------



## getmyrunon

Slubu, which package did you end up going with?


I'm trying to figure out which speakers to add to an X-Sub/Onkyo 604. I'm debating between: 4 R300s + some polk center. OR The av123 X-SLS for mains, X-CS, and 2 R300s for rear surrounds. I know the AVS setup will probably destroy the R300s on music, but are they worth a $375 upgrade cost for someone who intends to use them almost exclusively for HT purposes? I'm thinking no, but they look so pretty, and they would match the sub...


----------



## wayne_trisha

Everything is in and installed on my surround system. I haven't tweaked the settings because I finished installing it last night around midnight and I don't think my wife would say nice things if I woke her.










My system:


Yamaha HTR-5940BL 165.00

Fronts: Polk R50s 185.00

Rears: Polk R15s 95.00

Center: Polk CSi25 95.00

Sub: BIC H-100 239.00


Total: 779.00


I popped X-men 3 in the dvd this morning for a trial run and it sounds great without any tuning done to it yet.


Thanks to everyone for their excellent inputs and sharing of their knowledge.


----------



## gottachopwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wayne_trisha* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Everything is in and installed on my surround system. I haven't tweaked the settings because I finished installing it last night around midnight and I don't think my wife would say nice things if I woke her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My system:
> 
> 
> Yamaha HTR-5940BL 165.00
> 
> Fronts: Polk R50s 185.00
> 
> Rears: Polk R15s 95.00
> 
> Center: Polk CSi25 95.00
> 
> Sub: BIC H-100 239.00
> 
> 
> Total: 779.00
> 
> 
> I popped X-men 3 in the dvd this morning for a trial run and it sounds great without any tuning done to it yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their excellent inputs and sharing of their knowledge.



Looks great - quick q - what made you decide on the Yamaha reciever and 6.1 instead of 7.1...I'm still leaning towards an Onkyo 504 for the best bang for the buck.

- and I can't find anything that touches that price on the Yam, if it's still that price can you PM me where you got it? Cheers!


----------



## LugNutX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruce Wayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> O.K. , So i got a confirmed price on my next receiver that I will order in about a week. So my system is (will be) as follows.
> 
> 
> Infocus IN72 -------------- $450.00
> 
> Screen---------------------- $100.00
> 
> Polk R300 (4 each) ------ $ 59.00
> 
> Polk CSi25 ---------------- $ 78.00
> 
> Yamaha RX-V659 -------- $ 260.00
> 
> Monoprice 50' comp cbl--$ 35.00
> 
> Toshiba DVD player ------$ FREE
> 
> 
> For a grand total of ------$1159.00
> 
> 
> All of which is set up in the family room. Who says you have to break the bank to have a great setup. All I need now is a great sub and an OPPO player, I could possibly pick these up and still be under $1500.00 for the whole deal. Man this is a fantastic forum.



Setup looks great, and actually very similar to mine. I have a 4805 as my projector and I would only suggest that you not put much time or money into finding a high-end DVD player. In order to benefit from the Faroudja processor, you will be sending a 480i signal, which negates any upscaling features, etc. (not to mention that the resolution of the projector prevents any overly discernable improvements).


Despite all of this, even a cheap DVD player is capable of making a good picture on this projector. That free Toshiba may allow you to put more money towards the sub.


----------



## slubu

Does this work now?










































If so, should I angle/tilt my surrounds any differently?


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *getmyrunon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slubu, which package did you end up going with?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out which speakers to add to an X-Sub/Onkyo 604. I'm debating between: 4 R300s + some polk center. OR The av123 X-SLS for mains, X-CS, and 2 R300s for rear surrounds. I know the AVS setup will probably destroy the R300s on music, but are they worth a $375 upgrade cost for someone who intends to use them almost exclusively for HT purposes? I'm thinking no, but they look so pretty, and they would match the sub...



went with 4 xl-s and an x-cs. hopefully the pics are working now, they are gorgeous


----------



## usp1

Awsome looking set up slubu. where did you get that entertainment center


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Awsome looking set up slubu. where did you get that entertainment center



plummers.com


----------



## slubu

I actually can't hear my rears much







. Do you think tilting them down would work, or should I just redo the setup and lower them 2 feet. I'm pretty sure I mounted them too high.


----------



## blobula

So would you say the AV123 speakers are good for HT use, or do these speakers only shine when playing music through them?


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So would you say the AV123 speakers are good for HT use, or do these speakers only shine when playing music through them?



they are good for HT use and shine for music. does that make sense?


----------



## usp1

Definitely need to lower them. tilting will not work beyond a point. I would move them down 2 feet for sure or put them on stands.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rightbackin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys, very nice thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that the Yamaha RX-V661 sounds bright and the av123 x-ls sound warm. What determines the overall sound, the receiver or the speakers? Thanks!



Usually bright speakers make the most difference, but receivers and amplifiers play a part. There are definitely differences in between manufacturer's designs that effect sound quality. However, the combination you state should work well. The x-ls are a very laid back and warm speaker.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually can't hear my rears much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Do you think tilting them down would work, or should I just redo the setup and lower them 2 feet. I'm pretty sure I mounted them too high.



Yep, the only one's hearing your surrounds are the spiders in the rafters







. Since the couch is on the back wall, the only way for you to image the surrounds will be on stands on either side of the couch facing the LP. Dropping them will help a bit, but the way you're setup the first reflection point is still the TV wall.


Beautiful finish...and they look almost small in the pictures, but the x-series are very large bookshelves.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does this work now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If so, should I angle/tilt my surrounds any differently?




Love the speakers, don't like the grilles though. I bet they look awesome with the grilles removed.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Love the speakers, don't like the grilles though. I bet they look awesome with the grilles removed.



I actually like the snowman grills


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, the only one's hearing your surrounds are the spiders in the rafters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Since the couch is on the back wall, the only way for you to image the surrounds will be on stands on either side of the couch facing the LP. Dropping them will help a bit, but the way you're setup the first reflection point is still the TV wall.
> 
> 
> Beautiful finish...and they look almost small in the pictures, but the x-series are very large bookshelves.



Ron, do you think if I drop them 2 feet and angle them towards each other that will work?


----------



## Kanucat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Memorial weekend sale...congrats...Polk RTi8s are on sale for $400/pr, normally $700. A seriously good deal if you've got the coin.



Oh man! I wish I wasn't out of town last weekend, I would have totally jumped on those. Ah well, que sera, sera. --or something like that.


I'm still waiting on my pair of x-sls speakers and my x-cs from av123. I ordered them on 5/21 and I still have yet to hear anything as far as a shipping date. All the website says is "Avail June."


I'm really not good at this whole "patience" thing. I almost pulled the trigger on some Axiom m50's yesterday instead... but thankfully I talked myself out of it. We'll see how well my willpower holds.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kanucat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh man! I wish I wasn't out of town last weekend, I would have totally jumped on those. Ah well, que sera, sera. --or something like that.
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting on my pair of x-sls speakers and my x-cs from av123. I ordered them on 5/21 and I still have yet to hear anything as far as a shipping date. All the website says is "Avail June."
> 
> 
> I'm really not good at this whole "patience" thing. I almost pulled the trigger on some Axiom m50's yesterday instead... but thankfully I talked myself out of it. We'll see how well my willpower holds.



I'd expect the prices to come down on the entire RTi lineup over the next few months...Polk is rolling out the RTiA line this fall with some seriously upgraded cabinets...probably about the same SQ. Look for Frys to feature RTi sales.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron, do you think if I drop them 2 feet and angle them towards each other that will work?



Yes, it will help...also widen them out a couple of feet, tilt them down and toed in greater than a 45 degree angle. Ideally, they should be on stands, but you can get more or most of the surround soundstage if you can get the tweeters and drivers oriented toward your seating position.


----------



## wayne_trisha




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gottachopwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks great - quick q - what made you decide on the Yamaha reciever and 6.1 instead of 7.1...I'm still leaning towards an Onkyo 504 for the best bang for the buck.
> 
> - and I can't find anything that touches that price on the Yam, if it's still that price can you PM me where you got it? Cheers!



PM Sent. I hope you can still get it. I was surprised when I saw the price. I don't have room for 6.1 or 7.1 because of WAF and SAF (self approval factor)


I've got a large entertainment center that barely allows my R50s to fit on either side or they hit a wall or block my bedroom door. Looks great now. The back wall is much longer but when I had my onkyo htib 7.1 system the four rear speakers were wall mounted and I regretted it since the day I mounted them. They never looked right. Now my black R15s sit on black end tables partially hidden by a lamp on one side and a fountain on the other. Much more pleasing visually. Sound is immensely better and the whole room looks so much better without these ugly black boxes haging from the wall.


My son just moved out and I took over his room. Being a huge University of Florida Fan I painted the walls blue and orange, hauled the old onkyo htib into the room. I need to decide between a 42" plasma or a projector. My viewing distance is about 8-9 ft, anyone know which might be better for sports?


----------



## wayne_trisha




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> went with 4 xl-s and an x-cs. hopefully the pics are working now, they are gorgeous



They sure are!


----------



## nozerider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually can't hear my rears much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Do you think tilting them down would work, or should I just redo the setup and lower them 2 feet. I'm pretty sure I mounted them too high.





Not only are they too high, but they are pointing in the wrong direction. They should be firing at each other, and a few feet above your head and slightly behind.


I'd just slap them on some stands. Great setup BTW.


----------



## getmyrunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wayne_trisha* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My viewing distance is about 8-9 ft, anyone know which might be better for sports?



Start a thread on this over in the sub3k forum and you'll get plenty of stellar advice. To start you off - there are a lot of factors to consider if you're thinking of going the projector route (ambient lighting in room, budget, source, and throw distance in addition to seating distance). A Plasma is probably going to be the safe bet, but if you can swing a Mitsubishi HD1000U or Panasonic AX-100, you won't be sorry










To get us back on topic:


I couldn't resist the allure of the AV123 series and I'm going to place an order for an X-SLS, CS, and LS combo to go with the recently ordered X-Sub. Guess I'll be listening to some more music with them










Big thanks to GStarr for starting and keeping this thread on track, Ron for answering my annoying comparison questions, and all of the other contributors for your information. And I can't forget about flags and the comic relief







I'm sure I'll be thrilled with the speakers, and I would have been COMPLETELY lost without you guys. Thanks again. I'll be sure to post pics when it's all set up.


----------



## ksalmon

If the HK AVR 340's are so great why are there so many that are sold as refurbs? I was just curious. I am looking to add a 2nd HT downstairs and was looking for this to be the pulse of the operation.


Side note.......any recommendation on some small footprint speakers for HT? Bose is just overpriced hype, but looking for something along those lines as far as size.


----------



## MarkMcD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalmon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If the HK AVR 340's are so great why are there so many that are sold as refurbs? I was just curious. I am looking to add a 2nd HT downstairs and was looking for this to be the pulse of the operation.
> 
> 
> Side note.......any recommendation on some small footprint speakers for HT? Bose is just overpriced hype, but looking for something along those lines as far as size.



I've got the same question on finding less conspicuous speakers. I was thinking of waiting a bit until we can afford an AV123 package (at least the fronts and center to begin with). But I don't think they'd look right in our family room, particularly that center speaker. We could live with the fronts, but that center would really dominate visually. I like slubu's setup with the dark entertainment center behind the TV, but ours is a two-shelf glass TV stand with just a beige wall behind it. So we'd probably need a smaller matching center that would fit in front of our 50" Panasonic. Or invest in a nice entertainment center like slubu's, which we can't afford right now.


Any recommendations in the AV123 price range (or lower) for a matched set? Are any of the recommended fronts/centers noticeably compact yet with good sound?


----------



## Confusedsoul

Steering this thread back on track because its helped me before, would anyone like to see pictures of my new PB10-NSD subwoofer next to say....my old Onkyo HTiB subwoofer? I will be getting the AcousticResearch ARVP series speakers from MCMINONE on Monday and can take pics of them then if someone is interested. Will also post my thoughts vs my HTIB speakers on those as well. So, any takers want to see some pictures?


Total spent was ~ $530


----------



## blobula

Post em up.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkMcD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any recommendations in the AV123 price range (or lower) for a matched set? Are any of the recommended fronts/centers noticeably compact yet with good sound?



There are undoubtably some decent options though I'm not clued into the mini-bookshelf lineup. Someone was looking at Aperions, but I think they are a bit pricey. When you start shrinking the cabinets, then the laws of physics start applying. The x-series are not that tall but extremely deep...the design has great synergy for musical performance. The Rocket ELT line, now discontinued was a smaller footprint design and probably still available out there somewhere. It's pretty nice, but not in the same class as the x-series.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalmon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If the HK AVR 340's are so great why are there so many that are sold as refurbs? I was just curious. I am looking to add a 2nd HT downstairs and was looking for this to be the pulse of the operation.
> 
> 
> Side note.......any recommendation on some small footprint speakers for HT? Bose is just overpriced hype, but looking for something along those lines as far as size.



HK receivers are steller for sound quality and their amps used and other internal parts at the price point. They understate their specs where others seem to hype the specs to appeal to the customer.


That being said HK does seem to have more issues than other makes. Their CS is 1st rate and they do carry a 2 year waranty.


Also refurb doesn't have to mean the receiver was returned for an operational issue. I could have been returned for any reason and checked out by HK at that point and they have to call it a refurb.


----------



## Confusedsoul

Sorry for the bad quality, didn't want to use the flash and overexpose the white SVS. It is a true white, so don't be scared that it will be cream. Also, the grill likes to catch dirt, so make sure to wash your hands really well before handling. LOL. The Onkyo subwoofer I have came with the system you could buy at Radioshack. I believe its the same as the HT-590S or something like that. I think the system had a model of HT-S8230 or something to that effect.



As promised, next to my HTiB onkyo subwoofer, the PB10-NSD:


----------



## nozerider

Not sure if people mentioned these before, but I just ordered them. Great reviews, very reasonable.

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?...Fid=58%2D10995


----------



## Confusedsoul

Yes, I mentioned them earlier and I'm sure someone mentioned them before me. They do seem to get good reviews, I should get mine on Monday (ordered 3 pairs) to go along with my PB10 above.


----------



## MarkMcD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are undoubtably some decent options though I'm not clued into the mini-bookshelf lineup. Someone was looking at Aperions, but I think they are a bit pricey. When you start shrinking the cabinets, then the laws of physics start applying. The x-series are not that tall but extremely deep...the design has great synergy for musical performance. The Rocket ELT line, now discontinued was a smaller footprint design and probably still available out there somewhere. It's pretty nice, but not in the same class as the x-series.



Ron, thanks. I don't really want to go that small. I think the 2 x-ls would fit fine, but the x-cs would be the problem. I guess it's not wise to mix in a different center from another manufacturer.


I'll get out my tape measure and see if I can squeeze it in somehow. I'm wishing now we had bought a different TV stand.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry for the bad quality, didn't want to use the flash and overexpose the white SVS. It is a true white, so don't be scared that it will be cream. Also, the grill likes to catch dirt, so make sure to wash your hands really well before handling. LOL. The Onkyo subwoofer I have came with the system you could buy at Radioshack. I believe its the same as the HT-590S or something like that. I think the system had a model of HT-S8230 or something to that effect.
> 
> 
> 
> As promised, next to my HTiB onkyo subwoofer, the PB10-NSD:



so how does that PB-10 sound compared to the onkyo sub, in your opinion? what kind of differences are you hearing?


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so how does that PB-10 sound compared to the onkyo sub, in your opinion? what kind of differences are you hearing?



At first its almost like less bass, until you realize that its just cleaner bass. I haven't found the best location for it yet, but already I can tell how much cleaner the sub is as a whole. Its almost like its not there at times while still being able to play with authority in the ranges that the onkyo could only hope for. There is no muddiness, has fast 'decay', and plenty of power for my room. I've checked Finding Nemo and the Darla scene and the SVS not only played down to what I assume was lowest ranges of the passage, it sounded to me like there was plenty of headroom left over! Until I do some measurements and placement, the sub is only about 1/4 of the way up.


The finish is better than I expected. I know the eD subs are cheaper (a2-300 is 350+shipping), but I like the finish and looks of this SVS in comparison. The only thing I don't care about? The grille. Yup, thats it, the grille. I think they could've figured out a better way to keep it on. Also, this thing is pretty heavy, so lift with your knees! I can't wait to get my upgraded speakers on Monday to put it all together.


----------



## Dark Rain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At first its almost like less bass, until you realize that its just cleaner bass.



Yep. What's also great about the PB10 sub is that it fills the room with bass but doesn't draw attention to itself. I was blown away by the performance when I first got it and continue to be amazed by it today. It's worth every penny.


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dark Rain* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep. What's also great about the PB10 sub is that it fills the room with bass but doesn't draw attention to itself. I was blown away by the performance when I first got it and continue to be amazed by it today. It's worth every penny.




Right now i'm trying to deal with a really nasty peak at 40hz and a very steep dropoff thereafter to 60hz-70hz. Its really nasty and I'm really missing that 50-60hz stuff.


----------



## Dark Rain

What's your crossover setting? I need to set mine at 80Hz within my AVR and have the Phase control on the sub all the way to Max to get a good balance. I have the PB10 behind my seating area.


----------



## Ron Temple

A suckout ~ 50hz is pretty common...what are your dimensions and where do you have the sub placed. If it's corner loaded, you've probably got some major room gain below 40hz. The middle of the room is where the bass gets sucked out. Let me know and also ping Ed Mullen, he can probably get you close to optimum without EQ.


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dark Rain* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's your crossover setting? I need to set mine at 80Hz within my AVR and have the Phase control on the sub all the way to Max to get a good balance. I have the PB10 behind my seating area.




Well I was using REW, a RS meter, and my Dell laptop. The laptop was directly connected to the subwoofer when I was making the measurements. I only had a few places to place the subwoofer as my furniture takes up a lot of space.


Should I connect directly to the receiver? I can post my soundcard cal graph and rs meter graph, but i don't have any sweeps saved.


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A suckout ~ 50hz is pretty common...what are your dimensions and where do you have the sub placed. If it's corner loaded, you've probably got some major room gain below 40hz. The middle of the room is where the bass gets sucked out. Let me know and also ping Ed Mullen, he can probably get you close to optimum without EQ.




Dimensions of the room are a little complicated and better explained with pictures (please excuse the mess, with a 3yr old, its never ending):


This is the front of the room (obviously). On the left side of the frame, there is that red wall before the indention. From the corner of that wall to the other corner, is 13.5'.


There is an inset where the tv, speakers and subwoofer are (as you can see) that is about 21" deep. The subwoofer is in the far corner and is white.











This next image is looking at the right side of the room. That wall including the inset is about 13' from corner to corner. As of right now, there is not enough room beside the sectional in the back corner to place the sub.











This last image is taken from the subwoofer corner and looks at the left side of the room. It opens into a hallway, a little opening into the kitchen, and a little entry way for the front door. The back wall is 13.5' as well.












I've tried moving the sub along the front wall and in front of the red wall on the left side and it really didn't make much difference. I'm thinking the only place that might work is nearfield behind our sectional. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I've tried firing into the wall, towards the left side of the room, towards the right side, towards the back wall with really no change.


----------



## slenser

WOW guys! That is just so much information. It took me 2 days to read through all these pages! My hat off to you all for this excellent information, especially G-Star for starting this thread. I came to this site looking for a HTIB to replace my cruddy LG HTIB. I can't stand to even listen to music because it is so boomy and there is no sub control.


I think I have been steered to the Polk R50's from Fry's. I have an 11' x 25' living/dining room with 9' ceilings. Hardwood floors as well, except for the 6'x9' rug in front of the couch. Will these be enough for this room? I will be getting a new cherry wall entertainment center delivered in a few weeks. The Polks should match them fairly well. I have a Denon DRA-685 stereo receiver that I could use to power the speakers. At least until I can get a new HT receiver. This is currently powering my garage speakers Kenwood MV-9 w/4x12" subs in ea speaker. I think it could handle the Polks










I also have an old Sony ES amp (HEAVY, like 45-50 lbs!!!) I could use for a sub, but do many subs come unpowered these days?


I appreciate your answers and guidance,

Sam


----------



## G-star

in honor of this thread making it to 1000 posts, i've updated the original post to include a few new products that have been discussed at length here that seem to be of great interest lately. some of the older or seemingly irrelevant links have been edited or removed. if there's something you think i missed that should be included for those just starting out, let me know.


a big thanks to everyone who has contributed and made this thread useful, especially ron temple for sharing his wealth of HT knowledge. reading through this thread for a bit, it seems that many people have benefited so far from everyone's contributions.










OK, enough rambling...back on topic.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've tried moving the sub along the front wall and in front of the red wall on the left side and it really didn't make much difference. I'm thinking the only place that might work is nearfield behind our sectional. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I've tried firing into the wall, towards the left side of the room, towards the right side, towards the back wall with really no change.



You are getting cancellation in the LP creating the suckout. Back right corner would be the next place I'd try. As I suggested, email [email protected] or tomv...they will probably be more helpful. GL.


----------



## imandy123

I am getting this message while posting a message for the first time.


Your Post contains one or more URLs or image calls, please remove them before submitting your message again. To prevent the abuse of spam, we have set this restriction in place until after you make 5 posts.


what could be wrong.


----------



## imandy123

This forum is amazing I have been going through it since last 15 days Finally I registered today to express my thanks to all of you who contributed I was in the same boat of going forward with HTIB but always wanted to do mix and match the best for my budget and luckily landed up here


Here is what I came up with for my 5 1 setup based on various suggestion in this thread


Receiver Onkyo TX SR504 160

Front R300 Floor standing 120

Surround R150 58

Center Csi25 75

Sub Velodyne VX10 10 150watt 160



Need help with my 3 Questions here


1 I can spend another 150 on this setup Should I go for Onkyo 604 or upgrade sub to STF 1 or Bic H 1000


2 Is r150 good for surround I checked the polkaudio com and this speaker is not mentioned under Speaker Surround section Should I opt for Monitor 30 in place of r150


3 How would Csi25 fit in this setup Or should I go with CRS or CS1 Any suggestion


Thanks a lot everyone It has been a great help

Andy


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imandy123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1 I can spend another 150 on this setup Should I go for Onkyo 604 or upgrade sub to STF 1 or Bic H 1000
> 
> 
> 2 Is r150 good for surround I checked the polkaudio com and this speaker is not mentioned under Speaker Surround section Should I opt for Monitor 30 in place of r150
> 
> 
> 3 How would Csi25 fit in this setup Or should I go with CRS or CS1 Any suggestion
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot everyone It has been a great help
> 
> Andy



1/ The STF 1 is the best of those you mention though the Bic will have a bit more bottom. The VX10 like all Velos is musical, but won't go as deep.


2/ The R150's only drawback as a surround is the rear port...you need to mount them on stands or have some breathing room behind the port, not a ton, a few inches is fine. Monitor 30s won't timbre match the R300s


3/ The CSi25 is the match, though the CS1 is close and a better center.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imandy123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am getting this message while posting a message for the first time.
> 
> 
> Your Post contains one or more URLs or image calls, please remove them before submitting your message again. To prevent the abuse of spam, we have set this restriction in place until after you make 5 posts.
> 
> 
> what could be wrong.



i'm no einstein, but it looks like you don't have 5 posts yet.


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are getting cancellation in the LP creating the suckout. Back right corner would be the next place I'd try. As I suggested, email [email protected] or tomv...they will probably be more helpful. GL.



Yeah, that corner is the next corner on my list.


Edit: Tried that corner and the dip is gone but i'v added two smaller dips and the 40hz peak is still semi there. I emailed Ed @ svsound.com and will see what he says. Also my newest graphs are posted in the SVS support & owners thread in the subwoofer forum.


----------



## mgugs46

I am deciding between piecing a system together, and just opting for a HTIB setup ...


Would something like this set up be any good:


Onkyo TX-SR505

Polk R150(2)

Polk R300(2)

Polk CSI3

BIC H100


I have a Toshiba 65" 1080p DLP (65HM167) that this would be connected to.


Questions: Is that Onkyo a decent reciver? Am I matching these Polk speakers up correctly?


I am looking to not break the bank here - maybe spend $800 or so -


----------



## imandy123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1/ The STF 1 is the best of those you mention though the Bic will have a bit more bottom. The VX10 like all Velos is musical, but won't go as deep.
> 
> 
> 2/ The R150's only drawback as a surround is the rear port...you need to mount them on stands or have some breathing room behind the port, not a ton, a few inches is fine. Monitor 30s won't timbre match the R300s
> 
> 
> 3/ The CSi25 is the match, though the CS1 is close and a better center.



Thanks Ron for your help.


1. I will go for STF 1. Will upgrade my receiver after an year or so. I am still to get an bigger screen TV.

2. I was planning to mount it on wall.. will look for stand now.

3. Going with CS1.


Thanks Ron... i have read other post of yours and I am sure I can blindly follow your advise










Here is my new 5.1 System


Receiver Onkyo TX SR504

Front R300

Surround R150

Center CS1

Sub STF 1


Hi G-star I could finally post. I had to remove all the special characters from my message and it worked.


----------



## thesameage

Hey,

I'm working my way through all of the posts in this thread and doing a lot of searches. But just wanted to see if anyone can point me in the right direction:


$400 to spend on speakers. We're getting an Onkyo reciever with hdmi inputs.


We have a pair of Boston CR7's as mains, a Boston CR1 center, Boston diffuse surrounds (which I don't like), and an old Energy subwoofer.


Wife wants the speakers to be as small as possible. And we live in an apartment where we can't really pump the bass.


If you had $400 to spend here, where would you look first? Worth it to keep the Boston center and get a much of Boston Micros to round things out?


Is an HSU vetrilquest set with my Subwoofer a good idea?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am deciding between piecing a system together, and just opting for a HTIB setup ...
> 
> 
> Would something like this set up be any good:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR505
> 
> Polk R150(2)
> 
> Polk R300(2)
> 
> Polk CSI3
> 
> BIC H100
> 
> 
> I have a Toshiba 65" 1080p DLP (65HM167) that this would be connected to.
> 
> 
> Questions: Is that Onkyo a decent reciver? Am I matching these Polk speakers up correctly?
> 
> 
> I am looking to not break the bank here - maybe spend $800 or so -



The AVR is fine...put the 300s in front, 150s as surrounds...the CSi3 is a nice center, but much brighter than the Rs. I've had one for a couple years, at first matched with the Rs...great for dialog, a bit sibilant for music. The CSi25 or CS1 are a closer timbre match...not trying to discourage you, for the right price always go with the best you can afford...I did and it's lasted me through 2 upgrades.


----------



## slenser

Any thoughts on my post?


----------



## BullArcher

Many Thanks to all on this board. What a great wealth of information. I was all set to buy a Onkyo HTIB solution. After spending a lot of time on this site, I changed my plans. I picked up a Onkyo 604 received, Velodyne Center Stage surround package, added an additional pair of Velodynes for 7.1 system, and added a sub. by the time I added the sub, I ended up spending about $100 more than I would have on the HTIB. But the sound is fantastic. I added a Hi def projector, and I now have an outstanding theater set up in my basement. Thanks again to all who contribute here.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW guys! That is just so much information. It took me 2 days to read through all these pages! My hat off to you all for this excellent information, especially G-Star for starting this thread. I came to this site looking for a HTIB to replace my cruddy LG HTIB. I can't stand to even listen to music because it is so boomy and there is no sub control.
> 
> 
> I think I have been steered to the Polk R50's from Fry's. I have an 11' x 25' living/dining room with 9' ceilings. Hardwood floors as well, except for the 6'x9' rug in front of the couch. Will these be enough for this room? I will be getting a new cherry wall entertainment center delivered in a few weeks. The Polks should match them fairly well. I have a Denon DRA-685 stereo receiver that I could use to power the speakers. At least until I can get a new HT receiver. This is currently powering my garage speakers Kenwood MV-9 w/4x12" subs in ea speaker. I think it could handle the Polks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also have an old Sony ES amp (HEAVY, like 45-50 lbs!!!) I could use for a sub, but do many subs come unpowered these days?
> 
> 
> I appreciate your answers and guidance,
> 
> Sam



R50s will work fine with your stereo receiver...the only passive subs that I'm aware of that you can buy (not DIY) are SVS CS cylinders and the ACI Maestro (very pricey). The SVS needs at least 150w @ 4ohm...does better with more, but is a fine performer.


----------



## Confusedsoul

GStar,


Think you could add the Acoustic Research ARVP25 speakers to the list? They have gotten a good review on this forum before and at $50 a pair they appear to be a good deal. You can find them for this price, plus cheap shipping over at mcminone.com. Here is the direct link:

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?...Fid=58%2D10995 


I have no idea how many they have still available, but while supplies last, I couldn't resist picking up 3 pairs as replacements.


----------



## mgugs46




> Quote:
> The AVR is fine...put the 300s in front, 150s as surrounds...the CSi3 is a nice center, but much brighter than the Rs. I've had one for a couple years, at first matched with the Rs...great for dialog, a bit sibilant for music. The CSi25 or CS1 are a closer timbre match...not trying to discourage you, for the right price always go with the best you can afford...I did and it's lasted me through 2 upgrades.



So are you saying then that I should get the csi25 or cs1 instead of going with the cs3?


Also, for what I am powering here, is the 505 a decent receiver? Should I go to the 604 [or 605]?


Any other similar priced speakers I should look at besides the Polks? I had them in the past, years ago, and liked the sound ... not sure if they are still considered a better speaker.


Again, I am looking at trying to spend roughly $800 on a 5.1 system, including the receiver ... and I had seen the 505 as low as about 250.00


Any help would be appreciated, as clearly I have little clue as to what I am doing here


----------



## Elvis Is Alive

Hello,


I'm looking to buy a 5.1 system (speakers only) with the following requirements:


$1000 budget

I want tower speakers for L/R for better bass in 2 channel music listening.


I've been looking at Athena F2.2 C1.2 & R1.2 with an A2-300 from eD (Sub got high marks from Craigsub btw, exceptional for a $350 sub) or doing a 5.1 system all from eD - A6 6T6 (fronts) A6 5T5 (center) & A3 5TC (rears).


I'm heavily leaning towards all eD at this point. 15% off with their package builder, free shipping.


I am open to any other suggestions.


Will be paired with an Onkyo 605 receiver.


Thanks.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Think you could add the Acoustic Research ARVP25 speakers to the list? They have gotten a good review on this forum before and at $50 a pair they appear to be a good deal.



done, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So are you saying then that I should get the csi25 or cs1 instead of going with the cs3?
> 
> 
> Also, for what I am powering here, is the 505 a decent receiver? Should I go to the 604 [or 605]?
> 
> 
> Any other similar priced speakers I should look at besides the Polks? I had them in the past, years ago, and liked the sound ... not sure if they are still considered a better speaker.
> 
> 
> Again, I am looking at trying to spend roughly $800 on a 5.1 system, including the receiver ... and I had seen the 505 as low as about 250.00
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated, as clearly I have little clue as to what I am doing here



Don't mean to confuse you about the centers...all will work well. The CSi3 is the best of these listed and provides crystal clear dialog at all volumes. There's no wrong answer with any of these centers, just what's most important to you.


Polks still offer outstanding value and quality at all their price points in their current lineup. Some of their vintage stuff, early Monitors, RTAs, RTxxis, RTs, SDAs, etc. are as good or better than anything in their current lineup and are real bargains on CL and ebay. That's where I'd look if I wanted better quality for R series prices.


Onk 504, 505, 604, 605...all are fine receivers. I'm not familiar with the new features...pick what's important to you. I doubt if there is a noticeable difference in SQ between the 5xx & 6xx. A trifle more punch on the 6xx...maybe.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I'm looking to buy a 5.1 system (speakers only) with the following requirements:
> 
> 
> $1000 budget
> 
> I want tower speakers for L/R for better bass in 2 channel music listening.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at Athena F2.2 C1.2 & R1.2 with an A2-300 from eD (Sub got high marks from Craigsub btw, exceptional for a $350 sub) or doing a 5.1 system all from eD - A6 6T6 (fronts) A6 5T5 (center) & A3 5TC (rears).
> 
> 
> I'm heavily leaning towards all eD at this point. 15% off with their package builder, free shipping.
> 
> 
> I am open to any other suggestions.
> 
> 
> Will be paired with an Onkyo 605 receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I agree the sub's a new value champ...unfortunately, you're going to have to the the guinea pig on the speaks and let us know







.


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> done, thanks for the suggestion.




Ok, just received all 3 pairs today and couldn't wait to hook a pair up.







WOW





















These buggers can DIG. I admit I'm use to my Onkyo HTiZB speakers but for 5 1/4" speakers and a lower end Onkyo HT receiver these puppies can really really throw some bass. I turned my subwoofer off and didn't even notice it was playing!!!!!! (Even had to go back and make sure it was off LOL) They won't go low enough for most movie's but they are VERY respectable as far as I'm concerned. The 6.5" version must really reach down. I will measure them later after I get them mounted but for now I am VERY satisifed for $50 a pair!


They don't seem as bright as I thought they'd be. I think the Onkyo's were really shrill when turned up but these seem more listenable at higher volumes. I will first try an 80hz xover and then 60hz xover to see what happens. I would've changed the stands a bit, but I think they're that big for a reason (these speakers aren't exactly small). I will take pictures of my Onkyo's next to these for size comparo. My HTIB speakers are about the size of the ones you 790 owners have in the rear of your sets.


Here are the pics:




















Didn't take any of the back part of the speakers, just wanted to show a size comparo for you HTiB owners.


Off to enjoy my new speakers, will report back afterwords








Oh, and if anyone has any worries about these working as a center channel, don't, one of these would be perfectly fine as a center channel!


----------



## mgugs46




> Quote:
> Onk 504, 505, 604, 605...all are fine receivers. I'm not familiar with the new features...pick what's important to you. I doubt if there is a noticeable difference in SQ between the 5xx & 6xx. A trifle more punch on the 6xx...maybe.



Thanks for the suggestions/advice ... I am a little leary with buying off of ebay, especially on used speakers ... are there any specific ebay stores that sell these older/better Polks?


Also, one last question - Do I need HDMI in my receiver? My TV has 3 HDMI, so cable box, 360 and HD-DVD could all connect to those 3 HDMI ports. Unless I am thinking wrong. Only reason I ask is because obviously an Onkyo 504 [no HDMI] is far cheaper then the 505, 604 or 605 ... which would allow me to spend more money on speakers - which if I am thinking correctly, its better to spend more on the speakers then the receiver, no?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions/advice ... I am a little leary with buying off of ebay, especially on used speakers ... are there any specific ebay stores that sell these older/better Polks?
> 
> 
> Also, one last question - Do I need HDMI in my receiver? My TV has 3 HDMI, so cable box, 360 and HD-DVD could all connect to those 3 HDMI ports. Unless I am thinking wrong. Only reason I ask is because obviously an Onkyo 504 [no HDMI] is far cheaper then the 505, 604 or 605 ... which would allow me to spend more money on speakers - which if I am thinking correctly, its better to spend more on the speakers then the receiver, no?



These are on my local CL and are stellar...you'd have to check out your own local CL for deals in your area

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/344021269.html 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/343803793.html 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/343766591.html 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ele/340904082.html 


Monitor 10s, plus 4s or 5s for surrounds with the CS350 center probably couldn't be purchased new for less than $4000 with arguably equivalent SQ.


HDMI switching is mandatory if you only have one TV input, but with 3 you can go direct and just sent the analog and digital audio to the receiver. If you think it's necessary then you should go for it. I don't, but that may change







.


Speakers will last for many years while AVRs and processors like computers don't age very well after 3 years...there's always a new format. I'd put more of your budget into speakers or go used as I suggested.


----------



## blobula

Are there any stands for the Polk R150's for a cheap price that anyone knows of?


----------



## mgugs46

This is probably an assanine question, but here goes ...


In the system I laid out above, I assume it would be FAR better then the typical HTIB I got?


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is probably an assanine question, but here goes ...
> 
> 
> In the system I laid out above, I assume it would be FAR better then the typical HTIB I got?



Very asinine, but I'll answer it anyway (J/K)


Yes, it should be better than your typical HTIB. How far, not sure, but without owning a HTIB, how would you know? You might be very pleased with that setup.



BTW, this thread went from what can I get for the amount I'm going to spend on X HTIB to what can I get for ~ or a little more than what I was going to spend on X HTIB. So cool.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These buggers can DIG. I admit I'm use to my Onkyo HTiZB speakers but for 5 1/4" speakers and a lower end Onkyo HT receiver these puppies can really really throw some bass. I turned my subwoofer off and didn't even notice it was playing!!!!!! (Even had to go back and make sure it was off LOL) They won't go low enough for most movie's but they are VERY respectable as far as I'm concerned. The 6.5" version must really reach down. I will measure them later after I get them mounted but for now I am VERY satisifed for $50 a pair!



nice pictures...worth 1000 words, as they say. the benefits of sturdier cabinets, larger enclosures, better drivers, and more advanced crossovers is clear once you give them a listen. it only gets better as you go up the food chain, but it looks like you've got some nice entry level gear that is a big step up from HTIB speakers. good luck with 'em.


----------



## Ron Temple

Confusedsoul...looks great...I'm sure they are going to sound wonderful compared to the Onks. Laid back is good, at least for me. You might want to listen to some mellow female vocals in 2 channel, without the sub...experiment with toe in and speaker placement until you get the broadest sweetspot with imaging locked in. Then key the rest of your setup off your fronts. Balancing your sub will be fun...it's going to sound great.


----------



## Randman1

I'd like to chime in on the "sounds better than a HTIB" question... Noobie alert.


I'm in the middle of assembling my HT piece by piece and so far I have my 42" Panasonic Plasma hooked into a HK AVR-146 with just a pair Polk T20EBs (same as Monitor 30s) for fronts (paid $130 for the pair) and a 6 year old crappy subwoofer temporarily hooked up. I know it'll get better as I add a better sub and a center, but it sounds great to me so far. (My room isn't really suitable for rear surrounds at this time.)


Probably will go with the Bic H-100 for a sub. Any suggestions for the center?


I was over at my sister's the other night, hooking up her Samsung 5.1 HTIB and this thing isn't even close to being in the same league as my under construction setup. Sounds very hollow and the sub has no punch to it at all.


This is just my way of saying thanks to this forum for leading me down the right road. I'm so glad I went the route of assembling my own system as opposed to buying a ready made solution.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Randman1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for the center?



CS1 is the match...


----------



## Wozzer73

I'm putting together a 2.0 or 2.1 or 3.1 system, and am thinking about:


Onkyo 504 ($180) (should I save a bit of cash and get the 304 instead?)

Polk R50's ($140 for 2)

And then I have $180 left over for sub vs center vs both


Trying to spend ~$500

Is a center channel all that necessary? Recommendations for better speakers or are the R50's good?


----------



## msummers80

This is a nice thread, G-Star, and in the forum I intuitively went to looking for this type of information (HTIB, which has good info on all budget solutions). One suggestion I have is to add links for speaker package solutions, like the Athena Micra, Velodyne HTC (is that still available, I couldn't find it), or even the Klipsch Quintet III. I recognize that there may not be good deals out there on these presently, but they come on sale from time to time.


Now a question. I'll try to get a picture to illustrate my question later. Our media center presents a strange puzzle for center channel placement. I have maybe 5 or 6 inches height at best in front of the TV, which rules out many options. Only some of the small speaker set centers will fit there. There is a shelf above the TV, but too high for good placement. To hang from the bottom of that shelf would (IMHO) put the center at an ideal level. There is probably less than 9 inches to work with, but enough to get in a speaker. So has anyone seen a mount that may work? Like a universal ceiling mount for these larger box speakers. I've searched the web, but nothing looks to promising. PDF alert: Page 5 of the PDF (22 of the document) has something similar to what I am imagining could be hung.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *msummers80* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One suggestion I have is to add links for speaker package solutions, like the Athena Micra, Velodyne HTC (is that still available, I couldn't find it), or even the Klipsch Quintet III.[/url]



Done, thanks for the suggestion. unfortunately, it seems the Velodyne Front Row deal is gone for good though.


can't help you with the mounting question...that's a tough one.


----------



## msummers80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Done, thanks for the suggestion. unfortunately, it seems the Velodyne Front Row deal is gone for good though.



Thanks. You run a first rate thread. I think it will be my main thread for a while. Too bad about the Velodyne.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can't help you with the mounting question...that's a tough one.



I've been having a feeling this one is going to require my creative neurons to fire a bit.


----------



## Fragster

Just wanted to chime into this thread.......


About a month ago, I bought the refurb S790 from ShopOnkyo for $286 and received it in excellent condition...zero cosmetic and tech issues so far......


Anyway, after feeling the fronts kinda lacked, bought the Polk R50's from Frys for $69.99 each and had it delivered yesterday.....hooked it up and the overall sound is soooo much better and cleaner than the stocks........


Im now considering replacing the stock center channel with the Polk but wife would probably get mad at my spending spree.


Anyway, Im loving my setup and couldn't believe that a simple upgrade on my fronts would make so much overall difference.


Luv this thread.

Frag


----------



## Patriot12

Has anyone found some good wall mounts for the Polk R150 speakers?


----------



## getagrip15

I'm starting to put together my first home theater system. I started with a Panasonic 42 in Plasma, Panasonic Upconverting DVD player, and Dish Network HD programming. Last night I ordered a set of Acoustic Research ARXP62 bookshelf speakers and an Acoustic Research ARXP242C center channel. I had been hearing good things about them and decided to go ahead and order them. My next purchase is going to be a receiver. I've been looking at the Panasonic XR55, but was wanting to know if they'd be a good match with the speakers I ordered. Also, will the lack of HDMI put me at any disadvantage? As I said, I've never set anything like this up so I'm learning as I go. I've got a small super-crappy sub to tide me over until I can get something better. I'm still not sure how I'm gonna handle the surround speakers. I've been wondering about a set of wireless surrounds, but not sure if they are worth fooling with. Anyway, if there's any direction you could point me in I'd appreciate it. Thanks. This site has been a big help already.


----------



## getagrip15

Since I'm in the question asking mood I'll ask a couple more. I'm considering the Panasonic XR55 but also the Onkyo SR504. Which is the better amp? Also, since I'll probably end up going the wired route, any recommendations for small surrounds to go with this system setup? Just for reference, I'll probably end up getting a Velodyne VX-10 to fill out the bottom end.


----------



## nozerider

G Star, you might want to add the CHT front row series by velodyne, here's a link.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...V&sid=319f869p


----------



## Confusedsoul

hmmm, apparently they brought it back?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nozerider* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> G Star, you might want to add the CHT front row series by velodyne, here's a link.
> 
> http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...V&sid=319f869p



OK, thanks. good find, i couldn't track them down when i gave it shot.


----------



## Wozzer73

I just ordered a set of the CHT front rows, we'll see if it goes through or if it's just a website error (as I suspect).


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *getagrip15* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since I'm in the question asking mood I'll ask a couple more. I'm considering the Panasonic XR55 but also the Onkyo SR504. Which is the better amp? Also, since I'll probably end up going the wired route, any recommendations for small surrounds to go with this system setup? Just for reference, I'll probably end up getting a Velodyne VX-10 to fill out the bottom end.



It's been awhile since I've seen the Panny mentioned, but had a ton of fans when it was introduced. The positives - very good power, clean, decent features, slim design, light, very good sound quality. The negatives - not as many tweeking options, connectivity, not as sturdy and digital sound quality not meeting analog expectations. Do a search in the Amp/Receivers forum there was a long thread...more of a cult of the converted and you'll get the impression that you either love it or don't, but most do. It's totally subjective as to it being a better or lessor AVR than the Onk.


The Velo is a nice starter sub for small rooms. If you have a room over 2000cube, it might not be enough (as a couple of guys on the Sub forum have just discovered).


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wozzer73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just ordered a set of the CHT front rows, we'll see if it goes through or if it's just a website error (as I suspect).



please let us know how it turns out, i'll delete the link if it is no good.


----------



## 8dub8

Hi all,


I've been trolling this thread for some time now, but this is my first actual post. First of all let me give credit where it's due. G-Star, this is a first rate thread and has been a HUGE help to me. I bought a 1200w LG HTiB w/ DVD recorder last year because it was clearenced out at BB for >$350. Well let me just say I now see why. It will shake the walls in my small living room, but it's hard to hear any dialog without cranking up the volume to those wall shaking levels and some times I just don't want to do that. I try to pride myself on being an informed consumer, but I completely dropped the ball on this one. Had I stumbled across this thread earlier I might not have made that mistake.


So now I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the upgrade and I'm hoping I can solicit some help.


I have a $1000 budget and I think I have narrowed my choices down to:


Onkyo 605, 4 x Polk R300 ($50 ea), Polk CRM ($116) and one of the recommended subs from this forum


Ballpark $900 before sub


Or


2 x Athena AS-F2.2 (factory refreshed $99 ea!), 2 x Athena AS-R1.2 ($79 ea), AS-C1.2 ($99), Maybe an Onkyo 504 and Athena sub?


Cost with shipping (w/o sub and receiver) $544.75.


I know the 504 can be had from J&R for $200, so I'm looking at approximately $800 before the sub. I would obviously be giving up some features like HDMI switching if I go with the 504, but with the Athenas at that price it feels like money better spent on speakers. The Athena AS-P6000 sub can be had for $269, but I don't remember seeing anyone mention it in this thread and if it was quality I would have guessed it would have been mentioned in G-Star's original thread. Does anyone have any experience with the Athena subs? I just don't know if I would be better off forgoing the matched set and going elsewhere for the sub.


I'm leaning more towards the Athena package right now, but I have not had a chance to listen to them. (If anyone know of a dealer in MN that carries the Athena's and has them on display please let me know). Can anyone validate my thinking that the Athena package is leaps and bounds above the Polk?


Thanks in advance for the help and Kudos to G-Star, Ron Temple and everyone else who has helped guide many a HT newbie in the right direction!


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I've been trolling this thread for some time now, but this is my first actual post. First of all let me give credit where it's due. G-Star, this is a first rate thread and has been a HUGE help to me. I bought a 1200w LG HTiB w/ DVD recorder last year because it was clearenced out at BB for >$350. Well let me just say I now see why. It will shake the walls in my small living room, but it's hard to hear any dialog without cranking up the volume to those wall shaking levels and some times I just don't want to do that. I try to pride myself on being an informed consumer, but I completely dropped the ball on this one. Had I stumbled across this thread earlier I might not have made that mistake.
> 
> 
> So now I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the upgrade and I'm hoping I can solicit some help.
> 
> 
> I have a $1000 budget and I think I have narrowed my choices down to:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605, 4 x Polk R300 ($50 ea), Polk CRM ($116) and one of the recommended subs from this forum
> 
> 
> Ballpark $900 before sub
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 2 x Athena AS-F2.2 (factory refreshed $99 ea!), 2 x Athena AS-R1.2 ($79 ea), AS-C1.2 ($99), Maybe an Onkyo 504 and Athena sub?
> 
> 
> Cost with shipping (w/o sub and receiver) $544.75.
> 
> 
> I know the 504 can be had from J&R for $200, so I'm looking at approximately $800 before the sub. I would obviously be giving up some features like HDMI switching if I go with the 504, but with the Athenas at that price it feels like money better spent on speakers. The Athena AS-P6000 sub can be had for $269, but I don't remember seeing anyone mention it in this thread and if it was quality I would have guessed it would have been mentioned in G-Star's original thread. Does anyone have any experience with the Athena subs? I just don't know if I would be better off forgoing the matched set and going elsewhere for the sub.
> 
> 
> I'm leaning more towards the Athena package right now, but I have not had a chance to listen to them. (If anyone know of a dealer in MN that carries the Athena's and has them on display please let me know). Can anyone validate my thinking that the Athena package is leaps and bounds above the Polk?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help and Kudos to G-Star, Ron Temple and everyone else who has helped guide many a HT newbie in the right direction!



IMHO, room size will say it all. How big is your room? A decent sub can make a HT sound good. A great sub will make your HT sound much much better. Even though you'll still want more. LOL. Anyways, back on topic. While a floorstanding speaker may sound fuller than a bookshelf for music, it matters less when it comes to HT as the majority of your bass below 80hz will probably go to the sub.


Depending upon the size of your room, I might recommend the Athena bookshelves at AudioAdvisor for 99$ a pair brand new x 2 + the athena matching center channel for $99 as well which gets you to 300$. Depending upon the size of the room that COULD leave you up to almost 500$ for a great subwoofer and $200 for a receiver. You could go either way, but if its a large room, you'll wish you had spent more on the subwoofer than the ones you had mentioned.


Brad


P.S. It might also be recommended that you spend your $1000 on a receiver, your front 3, and a subwoofer and purchase your surrounds later, if you'd be willing to save more money.


----------



## 8dub8

Thanks for the help confused.


My room is quite small, aprox 10 x 12, but most of that space is filled up with a big HT sectional and CRT HDTV. From what I have read this is not the ideal acoustic set up, so my thinking was to bring in the big floor standers and pump the room full of sound to over ride that. I'm new to all of this, so that thinking could be completely off base.


I did stop at CC to do a little listening yesterday and fell in love with the Velodyne DPS-10, very clean bass, but at $459 I felt it was going to be a little out of my price range. Maybe if I went with the B1s and the 504 I could pull it off. Would these pair up well?


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help confused.
> 
> 
> My room is quite small, aprox 10 x 12, but most of that space is filled up with a big HT sectional and CRT HDTV. From what I have read this is not the ideal acoustic set up, so my thinking was to bring in the big floor standers and pump the room full of sound to over ride that. I'm new to all of this, so that thinking could be completely off base.
> 
> 
> I did stop at CC to do a little listening yesterday and fell in love with the Velodyne DPS-10, very clean bass, but at $459 I felt it was going to be a little out of my price range. Maybe if I went with the B1s and the 504 I could pull it off. Would these pair up well?



I have not read through all of your posts, so you may not want to order from ID companys you can just ignore my post. But spending $459 on a sub from HSU or SVS will yield you way better results. Even the H100 at $250 would be a better choice then the Velodyne. Not dogging Velo subs, there higher end subs are great. I have a friend that spent $400+ on a Velo from either BB or CC and my H100 for almost half the price sounded just as good if not better. I have since jumped into a HSU VTF2.3. Now that he has heard that sub, he is even less happy about his purchase. Just thought I would put in my 2cents.


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Echomalinois* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not read through all of your posts, so you may not want to order from ID companys you can just ignore my post. But spending $459 on a sub from HSU or SVS will yield you way better results. Even the H100 at $250 would be a better choice then the Velodyne. Not dogging Velo subs, there higher end subs are great. I have a friend that spent $400+ on a Velo from either BB or CC and my H100 for almost half the price sounded just as good if not better. I have since jumped into a HSU VTF2.3. Now that he has heard that sub, he is even less happy about his purchase. Just thought I would put in my 2cents.




Thanks for the advice. My biggest problem is that in MN, at least as far as I know I have limited options as far as finding places to actually test these speakers/ subs. (BB & CC) What I've read in this thread has been like gospel, but I just don't really know much about subs. I felt that the velo sounded great, but if I can get twice the sub at half the price, of course I'm interested. I know the BIC, HSU and SVS have been getting rave reviews here, but I haven't had the opportunity to hear them. Without that it's hard to know what's good and what's really good. I guess what I'm looking for is something with a clean sound. My HTiB sounds very distorted and sloppy and I'm sure anything would be a huge improvement, but I'm focused more on getting the clean bass than shaking the walls.


Any and all advice and suggestions are appreciated!


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been awhile since I've seen the Panny mentioned, but had a ton of fans when it was introduced. The positives - very good power, clean, decent features, slim design, light, very good sound quality. The negatives - not as many tweeking options, connectivity, not as sturdy and digital sound quality not meeting analog expectations. Do a search in the Amp/Receivers forum there was a long thread...more of a cult of the converted and you'll get the impression that you either love it or don't, but most do. It's totally subjective as to it being a better or lessor AVR than the Onk.
> 
> 
> The Velo is a nice starter sub for small rooms. If you have a room over 2000cube, it might not be enough (as a couple of guys on the Sub forum have just discovered).



Thanks for the reply. I'll have to do a bit more research about the receivers. I'm just not sure which one would work best for me. Anyone got a recommendation, panasonic xr55 or onkyo sr504?










My dad has that velo sub, but after thinking about it, the room his is in is a bit smaller than mine. Mine is just over 2000 cu ft. I've been looking into the BIC H-100 as an alternative. Would that work well for me?(2000 cu ft, hardwood floors with large rug, Acoustic Research speakers)


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help confused.
> 
> 
> My room is quite small, aprox 10 x 12, but most of that space is filled up with a big HT sectional and CRT HDTV. From what I have read this is not the ideal acoustic set up, so my thinking was to bring in the big floor standers and pump the room full of sound to over ride that. I'm new to all of this, so that thinking could be completely off base.
> 
> 
> I did stop at CC to do a little listening yesterday and fell in love with the Velodyne DPS-10, very clean bass, but at $459 I felt it was going to be a little out of my price range. Maybe if I went with the B1s and the 504 I could pull it off. Would these pair up well?




That is small. I would go with the bookshelves & center from athena for that sort of space. For subwoofers, I'd check out the SVS PB10-NSD or the Elemental Designs A2-300. The A2-300 is $350 shipped I believe and should have the same or more output than than the PB10 though it might not be as 'articulate or musical'. For HT use though, shouldn't be a huge problem and craigsub ranked it the same as the PB10. The PB10 is $429 w/o shipping but IMHO has a better finish. I just picked one up in white for $325 as it was a B-stock model. B-stock models come with a full warranty, which made it a no brainer.


The Velodyne is a good sub, and while it has clean bass it might not reach down as deep as the ED or SVS. If you like it, do some searching around and see if you can find it cheaper. Here is the map of SVS owners and what they have for products:

http://www.frappr.com/svsowners


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. My biggest problem is that in MN, at least as far as I know I have limited options as far as finding places to actually test these speakers/ subs. (BB & CC) What I've read in this thread has been like gospel, but I just don't really know much about subs. I felt that the velo sounded great, but if I can get twice the sub at half the price, of course I'm interested. I know the BIC, HSU and SVS have been getting rave reviews here, but I haven't had the opportunity to hear them. Without that it's hard to know what's good and what's really good. I guess what I'm looking for is something with a clean sound. My HTiB sounds very distorted and sloppy and I'm sure anything would be a huge improvement, but I'm focused more on getting the clean bass than shaking the walls.
> 
> 
> Any and all advice and suggestions are appreciated!



I know that it is tough to buy with out hearing the product first. I have not been in to HT very long, but have bought almost every thing from ID companys and have yet to be disappointed in quality, sound, and service. If you really want clean defined bass you might consider the X-Sub from AV123 or the HSU VTF1 or STF2. Any of these will give you the same if not better lower end as the Velo, and are definitely very clean and articulate. Considering the size of your room, these would be my top 3 and all of them will be less then the Velo in a store. Since you can pick up the Velo and try it in your room, you may want to give it a try. I just feel that the amount of money they want for it will go further with an ID company. For what it's worth, my room is 10X11 and I have the HSU VTF2.3 which is way overkill for that space, but I would not want it any other way


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605, 4 x Polk R300 ($50 ea), Polk CRM ($116) and one of the recommended subs from this forum
> 
> 
> Ballpark $900 before sub
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 2 x Athena AS-F2.2 (factory refreshed $99 ea!), 2 x Athena AS-R1.2 ($79 ea), AS-C1.2 ($99), Maybe an Onkyo 504 and Athena sub?
> 
> 
> Cost with shipping (w/o sub and receiver) $544.75.



8dub8-


it seems you've done your due diligence already. looking over your posts, here's a few things i'd chime in with:


-the onkyo 504 can be bought directly from shoponkyo.com refurbished for as little as $159 sometimes, which may save you some money over the J&R price.


-$200 for a pair of Athena F2.2's is an incredible deal...those are bookshelf prices. the Polks are nice too, but the Athena's will provide a fuller sound, no doubt about it. they would probably do even better with more power than the onkyo 504 can provide, so you might consider looking at a receiver with pre-outs (H/K 2XX series, for example) to add separate amplification down the road some day.


-as far as the subwoofer, the internet direct companies are so far ahead of the B&M brands in terms of bang for the buck, it isn't even a fair comparison. the Athenea subs seem decent....they will get down into the mid-upper 20's (in-room) and be fairly articulate for their price class. for the $250 price point though, i still think the champs are the Bic H-100 (extension, output) and the AV123 X-sub (musicality and articulation). if you could stretch the sub budget to $350 and don't mind the boxy look, the Elemental Designs A2-300 will give you SVS or HSU type performance at a great price.


it may be a leap of faith to buy a sub you never heard, but the ID brands really are that good. a great sub will turn a budget HT into an excellent experience like no other component. my sub costs more than my 5 speakers combined, but the moment i pop in a bass-heavy DVD, i am reminded it is money well spent.










best of luck in your search.


----------



## LandShark22

First, thanks to G-Star and everyone else giving great advice in this thread.


Ok, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some speakers for the HTIB killer for the media room in the house I am building. I'm thinking:


Athena AS-B2 for LR: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...er=2ATASB2%2E1 


Athena AS-C1 for center:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASC1%2E2 


Athena in-walls for the rears (Due to room dimensions/setup I need to go in-wall for the rears):

$125 from amazon


I like the athenas because I can get in-walls matched to the other speakers. Is it ok to use the C1 center with the B2 bookshelves? I picked the B2 because it has a 6.5" woofer, which the in-walls also have.


I'm planning to add a bic h100 and Onkyo 504 later, won't be moving in for a few weeks. Am I on the right track? Any better ideas for a setup using in-wall rear speakers? Thanks for any advice.


----------



## onebxr

I was in your boat a couple of months ago as far as subs go. I was using an audiosource two 10" sub and was leary how much a new sub would help my system. I purchased a bic h-100 and I can tell you the difference between the two subs is night and day. I am very pleased with the h-100 and for the price I dont really think there is a better sub out there. This is hooked up to a sony strk7000 receiver which was a part of a HTIB. I have since replaced the speakers with the cht frnt rows and the Bic. It sounds so much better, even the wife is happy with it, and she hates me spending money on stuff I like.

-1


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is small. I would go with the bookshelves & center from athena for that sort of space. For subwoofers, I'd check out the SVS PB10-NSD or the Elemental Designs A2-300. The A2-300 is $350 shipped I believe and should have the same or more output than than the PB10 though it might not be as 'articulate or musical'. For HT use though, shouldn't be a huge problem and craigsub ranked it the same as the PB10. The PB10 is $429 w/o shipping but IMHO has a better finish. I just picked one up in white for $325 as it was a B-stock model. B-stock models come with a full warranty, which made it a no brainer.
> 
> 
> The Velodyne is a good sub, and while it has clean bass it might not reach down as deep as the ED or SVS. If you like it, do some searching around and see if you can find it cheaper. Here is the map of SVS owners and what they have for products:






Okay, so I went home and measured my space last night. I was a little off in my estimation, it ended up being 15 x 12. I'm sure the bookshelves would be more than adequate for that space, but man those F2s are hard to pass up at that price. I think I've been convinced to pass over the velo, so now it's a matter of narrowing it down to one of the ID brand subs and how much I want to spend, the ED A2-300 does sound tempting. I'm starting to think I might be better off doing more research and buying my system piece by piece than rushing in to a decision. Hell I've been stuck with the HTiB this long, what's another couple of months.


I took a look at the link you provided, pretty cool. All those dots and not a one in MN... Maybe I'll change that


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Echomalinois* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that it is tough to buy with out hearing the product first. I have not been in to HT very long, but have bought almost every thing from ID companys and have yet to be disappointed in quality, sound, and service. If you really want clean defined bass you might consider the X-Sub from AV123 or the HSU VTF1 or STF2. Any of these will give you the same if not better lower end as the Velo, and are definitely very clean and articulate. Considering the size of your room, these would be my top 3 and all of them will be less then the Velo in a store. Since you can pick up the Velo and try it in your room, you may want to give it a try. I just feel that the amount of money they want for it will go further with an ID company. For what it's worth, my room is 10X11 and I have the HSU VTF2.3 which is way overkill for that space, but I would not want it any other way




Thanks for the advice.


I think I'm going to go out on a limb and go with one of the ID brands. Everyone has given great suggestions thus far, so I might as well jump in head first. Now the question is which direction to go as far as ID brands and how much to spend.


The x-sub is very appealing and HSU is supposed to be a genius. I really like the Athena speakers at the price, but if I'm looking at the x-sub would I be better off going with a whole set of x series speakers? The x-ls package can be had for $747, x-cs for $894 and the ls/cs for $776. Can any of those touch the Athena package I mentioned earlier with the addition of one of the subs you mention at that price point? The Athena floor standers @ $99 ea are what I'm really jonesing about and the Athena center also feels like a steal @ $99.


Would you agree that I should stick with the Athenas and just keep my search to the sub?


Ahh the indecision... It's half the fun!


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The x-sub is very appealing and HSU is supposed to be a genius. I really like the Athena speakers at the price, but if I'm looking at the x-sub would I be better off going with a whole set of x series speakers? The x-ls package can be had for $747, x-cs for $894 and the ls/cs for $776. Can any of those touch the Athena package I mentioned earlier with the addition of one of the subs you mention at that price point? The Athena floor standers @ $99 ea are what I'm really jonesing about and the Athena center also feels like a steal @ $99.
> 
> 
> Would you agree that I should stick with the Athenas and just keep my search to the sub?



based on anecdotal evidence, i would say the AV123 speakers are a notch above the Athenas in sound quality, though the F2.2's will certainly have more range and probably punchier mid-bass.


the X-sub is a nice, articulate sub for small rooms, but can't hang with most any of the HSU or SVS offerings in terms of raw, balls-to-the-wall extension and output...which is where the "WOW!







" factor of HT comes into play.


for sheer bang-for-the buck, spending $500 on an Athena 5.0 package with a $500 sub from one of the ID companies (SVS PB-10 or HSU VTF 2.3, for example) would be the way to go. if you are really into music and want the best quality speakers in this price range, the AV123 package would hold the advantage in everything but sub performance.


----------



## onebxr

Just got off of the phone with Vicky Alvarez @ velodyne in reguards to the CHT front row speakers. She says they still have the white speakers but no black speakers. She says that they are having probs with the web site and are trying to correct it.

So you can buy 5 speakers CHT front row (199) only in white. You have to call this number to order though. (408)465-2824.

-Rich


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just got off of the phone with Vicky Alvarez @ velodyne in reguards to the CHT front row speakers. She says they still have the white speakers but no black speakers. She says that they are having probs with the web site and are trying to correct it.
> 
> So you can buy 5 speakers CHT front row (199) only in white. You have to call this number to order though. (408)465-2824.
> 
> -Rich



thanks for the update...i'll amend the first post to reflect the new info.


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 8dub8-
> 
> 
> it seems you've done your due diligence already. looking over your posts, here's a few things i'd chime in with:
> 
> 
> -the onkyo 504 can be bought directly from shoponkyo.com refurbished for as little as $159 sometimes, which may save you some money over the J&R price.
> 
> 
> -$200 for a pair of Athena F2.2's is an incredible deal...those are bookshelf prices. the Polks are nice too, but the Athena's will provide a fuller sound, no doubt about it. they would probably do even better with more power than the onkyo 504 can provide, so you might consider looking at a receiver with pre-outs (H/K 2XX series, for example) to add separate amplification down the road some day.
> 
> 
> -as far as the subwoofer, the internet direct companies are so far ahead of the B&M brands in terms of bang for the buck, it isn't even a fair comparison. the Athenea subs seem decent....they will get down into the mid-upper 20's (in-room) and be fairly articulate for their price class. for the $250 price point though, i still think the champs are the Bic H-100 (extension, output) and the AV123 X-sub (musicality and articulation). if you could stretch the sub budget to $350 and don't mind the boxy look, the Elemental Designs A2-300 will give you SVS or HSU type performance at a great price.
> 
> 
> it may be a leap of faith to buy a sub you never heard, but the ID brands really are that good. a great sub will turn a budget HT into an excellent experience like no other component. my sub costs more than my 5 speakers combined, but the moment i pop in a bass-heavy DVD, i am reminded it is money well spent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best of luck in your search.



Thanks for the feedback G-star


For what it's worth the first place I checked for the 504 was the link you provided. Unfortunately it took me to a "product no longer available page. I don't know if it comes and goes and you might know better than me. Just an FYI in case you want to update the post.


So I did look at the HK 2xx receivers at the ebay store. The 245 was going for $429 and the $240 for $388. That was a little more than I would like to spend on a receiver if I'm getting in to the 1k ballpark for speakers. I was also not that impressed with 50 x 7 WPC. I understand that this can be used with additional amplification, but that is something I would be looking at adding at a later date. I would like to find something that can give me really good sound now and great sound later with the addition of preamps. Any suggestions for other budget receivers with preouts?


The sub is becoming quite the conundrum. As I mentioned earlier I'm entertaining the idea of piecing this system together over time, thus allowing more in the budget, but where to start? Obviously I'm going to need to tackle the receiver first. My HTiB has some kind of proprietary cable running from the "receiver" to the sub and all speakers plug in to the sub. I wouldn't dare plug speakers I spent this much on in to that thing. So if I start getting in to a price rage of over, say 250 for the receiver it's going to be very tough to but the L/C/R and sub at one time. Has anyone ever tried 1.1, (C/sub) and if so was it at all enjoyable? Or would I be better of getting the receiver, L/C/R, maybe LS/RS and picking up the sub later. I know what I would be missing without the sub, but I'm not sure what I would be missing by not having L/R speakers and I love that Bass!


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback G-star
> 
> 
> For what it's worth the first place I checked for the 504 was the link you provided. Unfortunately it took me to a "product no longer available page. I don't know if it comes and goes and you might know better than me. Just an FYI in case you want to update the post.
> 
> 
> So I did look at the HK 2xx receivers at the ebay store. The 245 was going for $429 and the $240 for $388. That was a little more than I would like to spend on a receiver if I'm getting in to the 1k ballpark for speakers. I was also not that impressed with 50 x 7 WPC. I understand that this can be used with additional amplification, but that is something I would be looking at adding at a later date. I would like to find something that can give me really good sound now and great sound later with the addition of preamps. Any suggestions for other budget receivers with preouts?
> 
> 
> The sub is becoming quite the conundrum. As I mentioned earlier I'm entertaining the idea of piecing this system together over time, thus allowing more in the budget, but where to start? Obviously I'm going to need to tackle the receiver first. My HTiB has some kind of proprietary cable running from the "receiver" to the sub and all speakers plug in to the sub. I wouldn't dare plug speakers I spent this much on in to that thing. So if I start getting in to a price rage of over, say 250 for the receiver it's going to be very tough to but the L/C/R and sub at one time. Has anyone ever tried 1.1, (C/sub) and if so was it at all enjoyable? Or would I be better of getting the receiver, L/C/R, maybe LS/RS and picking up the sub later. I know what I would be missing without the sub, but I'm not sure what I would be missing by not having L/R speakers and I love that Bass!



If I were you I'd do this:


Receiver, then L&R, then subwoofer, then CC, then surrounds. You can phantom the center channel using the L&R speakers which is why I'd go that route. As for the HK receivers, many people use them on this board from what I've read and no one really gives them a thumbs down. Onkyo, Yamaha, HK, Denon, or Marantz are the main ones from what I understand around here. Also Pioneer's, but usually the upper end ones. I think my next receiver will either be a Yammy, or an HK.


CS


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback G-star
> 
> 
> For what it's worth the first place I checked for the 504 was the link you provided. Unfortunately it took me to a "product no longer available page. I don't know if it comes and goes and you might know better than me. Just an FYI in case you want to update the post.
> 
> 
> So I did look at the HK 2xx receivers at the ebay store. The 245 was going for $429 and the $240 for $388. That was a little more than I would like to spend on a receiver if I'm getting in to the 1k ballpark for speakers. I was also not that impressed with 50 x 7 WPC. I understand that this can be used with additional amplification, but that is something I would be looking at adding at a later date. I would like to find something that can give me really good sound now and great sound later with the addition of preamps. Any suggestions for other budget receivers with preouts?
> 
> 
> The sub is becoming quite the conundrum. As I mentioned earlier I'm entertaining the idea of piecing this system together over time, thus allowing more in the budget, but where to start? Obviously I'm going to need to tackle the receiver first. My HTiB has some kind of proprietary cable running from the "receiver" to the sub and all speakers plug in to the sub. I wouldn't dare plug speakers I spent this much on in to that thing. So if I start getting in to a price rage of over, say 250 for the receiver it's going to be very tough to but the L/C/R and sub at one time. Has anyone ever tried 1.1, (C/sub) and if so was it at all enjoyable? Or would I be better of getting the receiver, L/C/R, maybe LS/RS and picking up the sub later. I know what I would be missing without the sub, but I'm not sure what I would be missing by not having L/R speakers and I love that Bass!



HK Direct is doing some different things recently with their AVR auctions...some are the traditional 24hr bid wars and some are BIN/BO. The price they want is not what you should offer...do a completed auction search and find out the average price these units go for, then offer a number in your budget. Someone recently got a 240 for ~ $215 I think.


BTW, I reported awhile back that I've had some issues with my HK235(s). I replaced my receiver with a Denon 2307CI while awaiting another replacement from HK. I was going to keep it and sell the "new" refurb. Initially, I was very disappointed with the SQ for music, but found I was having issues with one of my amps...probably killed a channel when the HK died. Anyway, it's better now, but I still prefer the HK sound. Harman Audio has offered to upgrade me to the 245 at no additional cost or for a reasonable amount replace the 235 with a 445. Can't get upset about their CS


----------



## LandShark22

I'm reposting this from above as a bump, I think it got lost in a flurry of posts that came right after it:


First, thanks to G-Star and everyone else giving great advice in this thread.


Ok, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some speakers for the HTIB killer for the media room in the house I am building. I'm thinking:


Athena AS-B2 for LR: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinf...ber=2ATASB2%2E1 


Athena AS-C1 for center:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinf...mber=ATASC1%2E2 


Athena in-walls for the rears (Due to room dimensions/setup I need to go in-wall for the rears):

$125 from amazon


I like the athenas because I can get in-walls matched to the other speakers. Is it ok to use the C1 center with the B2 bookshelves? I picked the B2 because it has a 6.5" woofer, which the in-walls also have.


I'm planning to add a bic h100 and Onkyo 504 later, won't be moving in for a few weeks. Am I on the right track? Any better ideas for a setup using in-wall rear speakers? Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Pagash

Just a heads up for those contemplating the Onkyo 504, I see Fry's (in flyer, not website) has them on sale for 149, quite a good deal.


For those debating budget subs ($300-350), take a look at the Elemental Designs subs causing quite a stir on the Sub forum:

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/index.php?cPath=2_41


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go out on a limb and go with one of the ID brands. Everyone has given great suggestions thus far, so I might as well jump in head first. Now the question is which direction to go as far as ID brands and how much to spend.
> 
> 
> The x-sub is very appealing and HSU is supposed to be a genius. I really like the Athena speakers at the price, but if I'm looking at the x-sub would I be better off going with a whole set of x series speakers? The x-ls package can be had for $747, x-cs for $894 and the ls/cs for $776. Can any of those touch the Athena package I mentioned earlier with the addition of one of the subs you mention at that price point? The Athena floor standers @ $99 ea are what I'm really jonesing about and the Athena center also feels like a steal @ $99.
> 
> 
> Would you agree that I should stick with the Athenas and just keep my search to the sub?
> 
> 
> Ahh the indecision... It's half the fun!



I am a little biased towards the AV123 X-Series as they are what I have. They look great and sound just as good. I switched from the Athena .5 system to the X's and have been extremely happy. I never cared for the sound of the .5's, I found them really bright. I have never heard any of the other Athena speakers so I can not compare the X's to them though.


If you can swing the money for either a HSU VTF2.3 or SVS PB10, it will be worth it regardless of the speakers you end up with. Good luck with all the choices!


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LandShark22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like the athenas because I can get in-walls matched to the other speakers. Is it ok to use the C1 center with the B2 bookshelves? I picked the B2 because it has a 6.5" woofer, which the in-walls also have.
> 
> 
> I'm planning to add a bic h100 and Onkyo 504 later, won't be moving in for a few weeks. Am I on the right track? Any better ideas for a setup using in-wall rear speakers? Thanks for any advice.



the C1 is just the previous version of the C1.2, and was designed to be timbre matched to the audition series speakers you're looking at. it only makes sense to go with the athena in-walls for rears, though i must admit i haven't heard much about them. should work fine, and will sound great for what you're paying.


everything else looks good, solid entry level receiver and sub. if you could stretch your budget a bit, the elemental designs A2-300 for $350 looks like it is tough to beat and will get you a good bit of extra extension and output over the Bic, which is a good sub in its own right.


----------



## tbacos

Need some help guys...


I was considering picking up a HTIB, but finally decided against it. Instead, it looks like I'm going to be picking up an Onkyo 605 for my living room. I now need speakers. The wife would prefer in-walls. I don't need earth-shaking...have even considered doing without a dedicated sub.


*ducks*


I don't really want to hassle with a 7.1 set-up since one side of my room is open-ended. By the way, this particular set-up is to accompany a new plasma in my living room...I have my "real" home theater in the basement.










Budget-wise, I'd like to stay in the $500-$600 neighborhood for all the speakers.


Ideas???


----------



## rtb178

Hi everyone,


Is it still possible to get "refreshed" (I'm also unclear on what that means) Athena F2.2s for 99/ea? Or am I reading previous posts wrong? Thanks for any clarification.


Have just begun to think about putting together the replacement for my Onkyo HT-S780, and want to thank everyone for the thread. It's been stellar.


----------



## mgugs46

yeah i would also be interested in a link to wherever these F2.2's


----------



## mgugs46

One quick question on receivers: I was leaning towards getting the TX-SR505 ... I know it only passes through the 1080p signal, but, is that good enough?


My set up would be like this:


Toshiba 65" 1080p DLP HDTV. Model: 65HM167

Onkyo TX-SR505

XBOX 360

Toshiba HD-XA2 HD-DVD

Polk R300[2]

Polk R150[2]

Polk CSI3[1]

BIC H-100 SUB[1]


I'd like to get the Polk R50's, but sadly they only have a deal on the Cherry finish and I need black ... obviously I would grab the Athena's mentioned above if I could find them for $99 ... My actual question is basically do I need the 505, or could I make due with the 504 even though it has no HDMI's ?


The whole HDMI thing confuses me ... the T V itself has 3, so would saving some money on the lesser receiver be ok, or would that screw me?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My actual question is basically do I need the 505, or could I make due with the 504 even though it has no HDMI's ?
> 
> 
> The whole HDMI thing confuses me ... the T V itself has 3, so would saving some money on the lesser receiver be ok, or would that screw me?



if your display has 3 HDMI inputs, and you have


----------



## mgugs46

but in other words, in order to use the toshiba HD DVD player properly, I would need HDMI on the receiver? And does passthrough HDMI like on the 505 work sufficiently, or would I need a better receiver, like the 605 ... or am I not understanding your post the right way?


----------



## afrogt

Since the 505 doesn't process HDMI audio anyway you might as well get the 504. You could just run the HDMI cables directly to your TV and run optical audio cables to the receiver for sound.


----------



## mgugs46

Ok, just to make sure I got this straight ...


HDMI from the HD Cablevision DVR box to the TV

HDMI from the HD DVD player to the TV

Optical audio from HD DVD to the receiver

Optical audio from the HD Cablevision DVR box to the receiver


Am i missing anything? The 360 I don't think has HDMI/optical, so I would just use the component cables correct?


Would the 504 be powerful enough to sufficiently power the Polk speakers/BIC sub?


Does it make sense to save $$$ and get the 504 when its already outdated technology?


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, just to make sure I got this straight ...
> 
> 
> HDMI from the HD Cablevision DVR box to the TV
> 
> HDMI from the HD DVD player to the TV
> 
> Optical audio from HD DVD to the receiver
> 
> Optical audio from the HD Cablevision DVR box to the receiver



Looks good. You could also substitute digital coaxial audio cables for the optical ones if the sources (DVR and DVD) support it (they most likely do.)



> Quote:
> Am i missing anything? The 360 I don't think has HDMI/optical, so I would just use the component cables correct?



I'm pretty sure the 360 has optical, or some type of digital audio out. You'll need that in addition to the component video cables.



> Quote:
> Would the 504 be powerful enough to sufficiently power the Polk speakers/BIC sub?
> 
> 
> Does it make sense to save $$$ and get the 504 when its already outdated technology?



The power is going to be roughly the same. The only advantage the newer receiver has is a few more features. Bells and whistles, basically. The bulk of the receiver is going to be basically identical.


----------



## mgugs46

So essentially the reccomendation would be to spend MORE on speakers, LESS on the receiver??


I mean I can find a 504 for under $200, and I just realized I can find a new 605 which has all the newer features for roughly $400.


Given those prices, am I better off picking up the 605 and the Polk speakers I mentioned [r300's, r150's, csi3, and bic h-100 sub] or am I better off picking up the 504 and getting some better speakers? Although im not sure how much better speakers get with only an additional $200 to spend ...


----------



## GioGambino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So essentially the reccomendation would be to spend MORE on speakers, LESS on the receiver??
> 
> 
> I mean I can find a 504 for under $200, and I just realized I can find a new 605 which has all the newer features for roughly $400.
> 
> 
> Given those prices, am I better off picking up the 605 and the Polk speakers I mentioned [r300's, r150's, csi3, and bic h-100 sub] or am I better off picking up the 504 and getting some better speakers? Although im not sure how much better speakers get with only an additional $200 to spend ...



Get the 604, the 605 is overrated with the 1.3 HDMI IMO. You don't really need it right now, and I doubt it will be die or need in the near future. With the 605 now available, you should be able to get a good deal. Getting the 604 will allow you to get losless sound (Dolby True HD)


----------



## GioGambino

I just ordered 2 pairs (for fronts and rears) of the Athena B1.2's last week. For the center, I was recommended the Athena C.5 center channel speaker instead of the C1.2 since I have a small room. Am I going to have timbre issues with this setup? Thank you!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would the 504 be powerful enough to sufficiently power the Polk speakers/BIC sub?



The 504 has enough power to drive the Polks or Athenas...both are pretty efficient...though the Athenas moreso. How well largely depends on how big your room is and how loud you listen. The receiver doesn't drive the sub, just sends the signal to the sub's amp. If you listen in mid-80s- to mid -90s db level, you'll rarely use more than 10 - 30 watts. If you kick it up into the 100s you might risk clipping the receiver and damaging tweeters. Just be reasonable. For every 3db increase in volume, it requires double the power...so if are using 32 watts @ 97db (just an example), at 100db you are using 64 (getting close to tapping out the AVR or maybe you are), crank it to 103db and you're toast cuz the 5xx series can't deliver 128watts without clipping.


----------



## mgugs46

the room is my basement thats being finished, and the size would be approx. 12x24


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the room is my basement thats being finished, and the size would be approx. 12x24



Kind of depends on your layout...if you have your front soundstage on the short wall and your LP is 4 meters away, you'll need to play 6dbs louder to have the same volume as if you were 2 meters away.


I'm making this too complex. I used an Onkyo 5xx to drive R50s in a smaller room with no problems...I just didn't push it and neither will you if you're a bit cautious. 90dbs is plenty loud for music and with a sub, you should get into the 100s for movies if you want to without clipping the receiver.


Just don't turn to 11 and you'll be fine.


----------



## mgugs46

Thanks, so is the 604 worth the CC price now? 350? Or do you really think the 504 is enough.


----------



## GioGambino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, so is the 604 worth the CC price now? 350? Or do you really think the 504 is enough.



Go 604 if you are doing HD DVD or Blu Ray.


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rtb178* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> Is it still possible to get "refreshed" (I'm also unclear on what that means) Athena F2.2s for 99/ea? Or am I reading previous posts wrong? Thanks for any clarification.
> 
> 
> Have just begun to think about putting together the replacement for my Onkyo HT-S780, and want to thank everyone for the thread. It's been stellar.




Grr.... Unfortunately not and I sat on my hands for too long. I just spoke with Tim at Audio Advisors. He has one pair of factory refreshed F1.2 left for $79.99 ea. and one of each of the subs, but the refreshed 2.2s are gone and wont be coming back.


I'm at a complete loss now, maybe I'll just opt for the x-series.


If anyone is interested in the 1.2s you'll have to call Audio Advisors as the link is gone from the web site. 800-942-0220.


----------



## tbacos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Grr.... Unfortunately not and I sat on my hands for too long. I just spoke with Tim at Audio Advisors. He has one pair of factory refreshed F1.2 left for $79.99 ea. and one of each of the subs, but the refreshed 2.2s are gone and wont be coming back.
> 
> 
> I'm at a complete loss now, maybe I'll just opt for the x-series.
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested in the 1.2s you'll have to call Audio Advisors as the link is gone from the web site. 800-942-0220.




Yeah, I had my cart loaded up last night with two Athena bookshelfs, two rears, and a center. Then I saw the $88.41 shipping cost and abandoned the cart. Even if the overall deal is still decent, principle alone wouldn't allow me to spend almost $100 on shipping some small speakers.


Am I being stupid here?


-tony


p.s. With that set-up, can I get away with not having a sub if my primary use is TV, ps3, and the occasional streamed mps3?


----------



## buzzy_

Well, given that you can get free shipping from Vanns and Amazon, it's certainly worth comparing what you could get by spending those shipping $ on speakers. Sometimes J&R has free shipping, too.


Anyway, if I were building an ultrabudget system for a small room, I'd be curious about this $115 sub:
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-AMERICA-V-.../dp/B00009WBYK 


P.S. Though I'd be a lot more curious about this one at $138:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=2ATASP4000 

Athena - Audition AS-P4000 Powered 10" Subwoofer - Factory Refreshed


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbacos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I had my cart loaded up last night with two Athena bookshelfs, two rears, and a center. Then I saw the $88.41 shipping cost and abandoned the cart. Even if the overall deal is still decent, principle alone wouldn't allow me to spend almost $100 on shipping some small speakers.
> 
> 
> Am I being stupid here?




That does sound a little high. When I called for a shipping quote on the 2 floorstanding, 2 bi-poles and center it was only $85. Not sure where they're shipping from, or to in your case, but the question is subjective.


What is your budget?


Have you decided 100% that these are the speakers you have to have?


Ask yourself those two questions and decide if $88.41 makes it a stupid decision. Keep in mind you're also saving $$ you would spend on tax at a B&M retailer.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Yeah, I had my cart loaded up last night with two Athena bookshelfs, two rears, and a center. Then I saw the $88.41 shipping cost and abandoned the cart. Even if the overall deal is still decent, principle alone wouldn't allow me to spend almost $100 on shipping some small speakers.
> 
> 
> Am I being stupid here?



Lets see, just a week or two ago those same Athenas were $119/pr plus shipping. Now they're $99/pr or $79/pr depending if you're buying the B1 or B1.2. The center was $140 plus shipping until very recently, now its $99.


So you've saved $40 on the B1 and $40 on the C1 over the regular price which balances out the shipping costs. I looked around on Amazon and Ebay and the B1.2 goes anywhere from $130 shipped to $147 shipped.


Let me asked you this, if the B1 cost $130/pr with free shipping would you buy it?


----------



## afrogt

Perhaps one of these package deals is a better option? Includes sub.

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/c...?pid=875&sc=27 
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/c...?pid=874&sc=27 



I think best bang for the buck speaker deal was the AR VP25 bookshelfs for $49/pr at mcmelectronics.com. Shipping was only $8.99 for one pair and $9.99 for two pairs. But it looks like people finally figured it out and bought them all up. They had been going for that price since last December. At one time they had over 250 pairs.


----------



## tbacos

The wife really doesn't want a sub messing with the feng-shui in the room, so I'm really trying to get away without one.










As for budget, I'd prefer to keep the total speaker package around $500.


Are the Athenas the speakers for me? Well I dunno. They seem well regarded around here and they have a few good things going for them in my book: the size seems about right, I like the bi-pole surrounds with easy wall mounting, they are attractive enough for WAF. As for sound quality, since I have no easy way of hearing them in person I suppose I'll have to trust the crowd consensus.


Is there anyone in here that has heard them first-hand that can vouch for them? Is there a better option I should be looking at for my $500? What about the Cerwin-Vega CVHD 5.1 set?


----------



## getagrip15

I'm putting together a 5.1 system and would love some recommendations for my surrounds. I already have a set of Acoustic Research ARXP62 bookshelf speakers and an Acoustic Research ARXP242C center channel. I'll probably be getting an Onkyo or a Panasonic XR55/57 receiver. What would be a good/affordable match? Thanks alot.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *getagrip15* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm putting together a 5.1 system and would love some recommendations for my surrounds. I already have a set of Acoustic Research ARXP62 bookshelf speakers and an Acoustic Research ARXP242C center channel. I'll probably be getting an Onkyo or a Panasonic XR55/57 receiver. What would be a good/affordable match? Thanks alot.



Speakers from the same line are optimal. If you can get another pair of ARXP62s that would work or the ARXP52 or 42 would also be a great match for surrounds.


----------



## afrogt

There's some AR VP24 speakers on ebay for $59/pr new on ebay. Would make great surrounds with the rest of your system.


Item number: 120130566118


----------



## ctandc

Well I've got most of my new HT setup together in the new house. Still have to make stands for the surrounds and hook 'em up, but the honey do list is pretty long at this point (fence finished up, paint, etc etc etc).


Here's my setup and costs:


51F59 hitachi 51" Rear Projection CRT $600 (new on sale)

Insignia Upconvert 1080i DVD player $50

Onkyo 504 Receiver (new) $160

Polk R150's for fronts and surrounds $115

Polk Center Channel $82

Cables - from cablemart $35

Speaker Wire (14ga) $35

(2) Audio Piers from Target $70 x 2


I'm under $1300 for everything. (that will include my cost for building stands for my surrounds).


While I'm sure my ears / eyes may not be as well-trained as many on here...after tweaking the TV a bit, using suggestions from this site, and getting everything setup, I love the setup....and I don't even have the surrounds or a sub installed yet. My wife even commented on how much better everything looks and sounds.


I hope to have the surrounds installed in a few weeks, and by Fall I'm going to go ahead and order a sub.


I know many people read these forums, and see the high $$$ setups many have here, and maybe they think they can't setup a nice HT for their house without breaking the bank or whipping out the plastic....but as a confirmed tight wad and non-expert for HT, I'm impressed with the setup I have now. I'm sure it's considered low-end, but I'm very happy with it, and I haven't even thought twice about it being worth the time and money I've spent on it, so that in itself is a good thing...in my opinion.


----------



## sound dropouts




> Quote:
> 51F59 hitachi 51" Rear Projection CRT $600 (new on sale)
> 
> Insignia Upconvert 1080i DVD player $50
> 
> Onkyo 504 Receiver (new) $160
> 
> Polk R150's for fronts and surrounds $115
> 
> Polk Center Channel $82
> 
> Cables - from cablemart $35
> 
> Speaker Wire (14ga) $35
> 
> (2) Audio Piers from Target $70 x 2



Wow, those are some good prices! Well put together setup and very cheap!


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's some AR VP24 speakers on ebay for $59/pr new on ebay. Would make great surrounds with the rest of your system.
> 
> 
> Item number: 120130566118



I'd love to use these but I think they will be too large. The way my room is setup, I'm gonna have to wall mount my surrounds and these are big and heavy. I'll have to look into it. I am wanting something a good bit smaller that I can use with those rotating wall mounts. How important is it to have surrounds made by the same company?


----------



## afrogt

Not that important really. Surrounds are mainly for background noises and if you're not listening to 5 channel music like DVD Audio or SACD, just go with something that fits your needs.


Maybe one of these would work? They come with wall mounts.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3196783 

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-670


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctandc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I've got most of my new HT setup together in the new house. Still have to make stands for the surrounds and hook 'em up, but the honey do list is pretty long at this point (fence finished up, paint, etc etc etc).
> 
> 
> Here's my setup and costs:
> 
> 
> 51F59 hitachi 51" Rear Projection CRT $600 (new on sale)
> 
> Insignia Upconvert 1080i DVD player $50
> 
> Onkyo 504 Receiver (new) $160
> 
> Polk R150's for fronts and surrounds $115
> 
> Polk Center Channel $82
> 
> Cables - from cablemart $35
> 
> Speaker Wire (14ga) $35
> 
> (2) Audio Piers from Target $70 x 2



I also own the Hitachi 51F59. Great TV, I picked it up for the same price on Black Friday last year at BB. The only problem I have with it is the soft screen. If you have young children I would suggest making a makeshift screen protector from a piece of plexiglas and velcro. I've already had to replace the screen once and it came close to the original purchase price of the TV.


Back on topic, can you tell me where you found the Onkyo 504 for $160 new?


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that important really. Surrounds are mainly for background noises and if you're not listening to 5 channel music like DVD Audio or SACD, just go with something that fits your needs.
> 
> 
> Maybe one of these would work? They come with wall mounts.
> 
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3196783
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-670



Thanks alot. Those Dayton speakers look pretty good. Good price too. Anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Back on topic, can you tell me where you found the Onkyo 504 for $160 new?



My local Fry's electronics has the 504 for $149 new.
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...16449203&type=


----------



## Staple

Man, this place is expensive! I was totally set on getting an Onkyo HTIB to go with my Sammy 5087, but no, I had to come here.


I've decided on the following setup and I wanted to make sure that together, this system will operate nicely.


Polk RM20 set - (2 front, 2 surround, and 1 center)

Onkyo 604

Velodyne VRP-1000


Can I get an opinion from some the forum gurus?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that important really. Surrounds are mainly for background noises and if you're not listening to 5 channel music like DVD Audio or SACD, just go with something that fits your needs.
> 
> 
> Maybe one of these would work? They come with wall mounts.
> 
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3196783
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-670



As afrogt says...for movies, not as much, though you will hear a difference during panning effects and a timbre matched setup will sound better. I've gone from a matched system, to an upgraded mismatched system with better surrounds that sounded better, back to a matched system that is the bomb. It is noticeable...if you can afford the space or the $$$ you should try to stay within the same timbre matched speaker line. However, timbre matching is a goal, not a requirement.


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My local Fry's electronics has the 504 for $149 new.
> http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...16449203&type=



Thanks,


Unfortunately no Fry's in MN and I don't think their web site will honor an in store price.


Can anyone confirm that?


----------



## Wozzer73

I'm setting up a 3.1 system for HT & video gaming, with an Onkyo 504 receiver, and I need some serious help. Debating between:


Polk R50's

vs

Athena B1.2's +C1.2

vs

AV123 X-Series (distinctly more expensive)


plus I need some sub advice. Help?


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no Fry's in MN and I don't think their web site will honor an in store price.
> 
> 
> Can anyone confirm that?



You are correct. Fry's online will not price match with B&M stores. I tried a couple of weeks ago during thier Memorial Day sale. You can get a refurbished unit on Amazon for $170 shipped. A new one is $203 (they used to have it for $159).


----------



## afrogt

New 504 unit $179 with free shipping.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Receiver.html


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wozzer73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm setting up a 3.1 system for HT & video gaming, with an Onkyo 504 receiver, and I need some serious help. Debating between:
> 
> 
> Polk R50's
> 
> vs
> 
> Athena B1.2's +C1.2
> 
> vs
> 
> AV123 X-Series (distinctly more expensive)
> 
> 
> plus I need some sub advice. Help?



All those are fine choices...depends on what you are looking for. For a music first or 50/50 system the x-series would be my first choice. The R50s are a good all rounder and throw a nice large soundstage and detailed midbass-midrange and the Athenas are well received too. They all sound different, but very good with the x-series having a nice warm/refined sound that I prefer for music. However, I owned R50s and I wouldn't have moved to the x-series from there...not enough of an upgrade. In fact, there were many speakers I listened to that were slightly more to my liking, but I couldn't justify...had to look around awhile.


Any of the subs mentioned would work fine...


xsub

Bic

ED A2-250 or 300


----------



## ctandc

Wow Frys shows it for $239 now. I caught it on sale I guess for $159.


http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...535?v_c=Nextag 


$189 there


----------



## Mikeoz

Well I got the X-sub from av123 a little over a week ago, but haven't posted yet because I've been busy lately. I have had the pleasure now of watching some new movies with the new setup and I'm very pleased. For the money you can't get a HTIB to come close to the sound, and I'm very happy w/ all the components. For reference for those that don't remember my setup..


Hk avr235, Polk R50's for the front L/R, Csi25 center, and X-sub. I am very impressed with the X-sub for the $. The thing came packaged so well it looked like it could've been dropped from an airplane w/o damaging it.







The finish and quality also looks top notch. The SQ is equally as impressive IMO, especially for the price. Yes I waited a little over 3 weeks till I received it from when I placed the order but it was worth the wait.


Overall with the setup I think SQ is great, and an incredible bang for the buck. Music sounds very good and the R50's reproduce solid mid bass, and the sub does a great job with the lows. No, the setup is not better than many very expensive speakers/receivers/etc., but I think it's a great compromise for people looking for good SQ, on a reasonable budget, and sounds infinitely better than the old HTIB setup. I appreciate the advice from people on this forum recommending the HK receiver. I have always liked HK's warmer sound and I'm very happy with the setup. This is a bedroom setup for me so I don't have any rear speakers btw..


----------



## weese

Very helpful thread. When I chose my initial sound system components someone recommended going with quality 2.0 and then adding stuff later as well. My problem I guess is that I didn't know much about what pieces were good.


I recently finished my 5.1 and calibrated it using a digital reader from radio shack. I think it sounds ok, but I could probably do better by upgrading a couple of the pieces. Bang for the buck, which would be the single piece you'd recommend upgrading from this setup? (I'm guessing subwoofer or receiver).


Receiver: Sony STR-DE485

Front L/R: Yamanha NS-7390

Rear L/R: Pioneer S-HF21

Center: Pioneer S-HF11C

Sub: Sony SA-W2500


I got this as they were brands I assumed were good and the prices were super cheap, but I didn't really know much about audio equipment at the time. How do these compare to some of the suggested pieces? Also, would it be better to use the small bookshelf pioneers as front speaker since they match the center better? The Yamaha's don't sound too mismatched to my untrained ear.


Like I said, it sounds ok, but I'm hoping I can do better with some advice and maybe upgrade a piece or two without spending more than 1-200 bucks.


----------



## 8dub8

I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has experience with the BIC Acoustech system 6 or HT-64 speaker set. Both include the H-100 sub that is known as something of a value champ in it's price range.


I've done a little searching through the speaker threads and I know some of the Klipsch people have a negative opinion of them, but I'm going to attribute that to the fact that they both have horn tweeters and a similar design. Other owners have raved about them, but I've been pretty hard pressed to find a professional review.


Can anyone give me an unbiased opinion of these speakers? They look pretty nice for the price IMHO.


-Jason


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has experience with the BIC Acoustech system 6 or HT-64 speaker set. Both include the H-100 sub that is known as something of a value champ in it's price range.
> 
> 
> I've done a little searching through the speaker threads and I know some of the Klipsch people have a negative opinion of them, but I'm going to attribute that to the fact that they both have horn tweeters and a similar design. Other owners have raved about them, but I've been pretty hard pressed to find a professional review.
> 
> 
> Can anyone give me an unbiased opinion of these speakers? They look pretty nice for the price IMHO.
> 
> 
> -Jason



Just hearsay...that the Bics are comparable to a mid-fi Klipsch line, IIRC. There were quite a few adopters over on AH about a year and a half ago. Also, I think there was a bookshelf shootout including the Bics that they did well on. I talked to a guy in FL that loved his...I'd recommend a search and a couple of questions on Audioholics and see if you get some responses. I'd assume they are a bright speaker if they are Klipsch knockoffs. Make sure you like the sound.


Build quality on the Bic sub...it's pretty, but lightweight compared to other subs...didn't do well in the knock test(resonance), but still sounds good. I'd think the speakers are similar.


----------



## 8dub8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just hearsay...that the Bics are comparable to a mid-fi Klipsch line, IIRC. There were quite a few adopters over on AH about a year and a half ago. Also, I think there was a bookshelf shootout including the Bics that they did well on. I talked to a guy in FL that loved his...I'd recommend a search and a couple of questions on Audioholics and see if you get some responses. I'd assume they are a bright speaker if they are Klipsch knockoffs. Make sure you like the sound.
> 
> 
> Build quality on the Bic sub...it's pretty, but lightweight compared to other subs...didn't do well in the knock test(resonance), but still sounds good. I'd think the speakers are similar.



Thanks Ron, I'll do that.


Say, I know you've used the Polk R series and Onkyo 504, which is one of the possibilities I'm looking at. I know you don't use the BIC, not sure if you have any experience with Athena, but you seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject and I would value your opinion.


Can you give me your opinion on which of the following you would prefer?


Polk R50 fronts, CSi3 center (also could go with the CRM, or CS1 they're all $179 @ Fry's), R300 or R150 rears and ED- A2 300 sub


Vs.


Athena AS-F2.2 fronts, AS-C1.2 center, AS-R1.2 rears and BIC H-100 or x-sub


Vs.


BIC System 6


Anyone else who wants to chime in please do.


----------



## slubu

I'm not sure if I should post this in another forum, but since it deals with a number of things, maybe someone here can help me out:


I got the Dr. Chesky's incredible surround DVD-audio and put it in my Oppo 971 to play in my surround. The Oppo is connected via optical toslink and the RCA connectors to my Onkyo receiver. When I played the DVD-A of the dvd, the sound only came in the fronts, nothing from the rears. When I played the Dolby Digital version of the dvd, full surround. Is that normal? Why wouldn't DVD-A play surround? I also thought DVD-A was above dolby digital.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8dub8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, I'll do that.
> 
> 
> Say, I know you've used the Polk R series and Onkyo 504, which is one of the possibilities I'm looking at. I know you don't use the BIC, not sure if you have any experience with Athena, but you seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject and I would value your opinion.
> 
> 
> Can you give me your opinion on which of the following you would prefer?
> 
> 
> Polk R50 fronts, CSi3 center (also could go with the CRM, or CS1 they're all $179 @ Fry's), R300 or R150 rears and ED- A2 300 sub
> 
> 
> Vs.
> 
> 
> Athena AS-F2.2 fronts, AS-C1.2 center, AS-R1.2 rears and BIC H-100 or x-sub
> 
> 
> Vs.
> 
> 
> BIC System 6
> 
> 
> Anyone else who wants to chime in please do.



The R50s, while they last, are making quite a few people happy currently. They are very improvable, but this can be said about all your options. With the Onkyo receiver, they were very much an upgrade over the Onkyo 770 speakers. When I sold the 770 as a unit, I moved to an HK235...they improved again...detail, soundstage and punch. A friend brought over a little 2 channel amp to try, Audiosource Amp/One 2/80. I hooked it up via the pre-outs on the HK and any compression in the source disappeared and they became wonderful budget speakers. I kept them like that for a year and a half. When I started looking to upgrade, I listened to some expensive alternatives (to me) from $500 - $1500 a pair and while many were more what I was looking for, I couldn't justify the price/value equation. I finally went used and I'm glad I did. That's where the real value is.


Anyway, if you go with this option, I know you'll be happy. There's always something better and I'd think the Athenas probably are and would benefit from the same small step upgrades I described. The Bics, as I said, is all hearsay for me.


If Polk is the one, then the CSi3 or CS1 are good choices...they are from higher lines and don't quite timbre match, but you will benefit from greater dialog clarity and if you upgrade to higher Polk lines you can keep them.


Receivers: Polk, Athena and probably the Bics will have better synergy with warmer AVRs. I know that some Polkies complain about Yammies being too bright. My own experience with Onkyo is that it's neutral, but sounded compressed vs the HK. I know that a friend with F1s complained about his Pio1014 being too bright...things to consider. The Bics are probably brighter than both the Polks and Athenas.


I think you're on the right track with the sub...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if I should post this in another forum, but since it deals with a number of things, maybe someone here can help me out:
> 
> 
> I got the Dr. Chesky's incredible surround DVD-audio and put it in my Oppo 971 to play in my surround. The Oppo is connected via optical toslink and the RCA connectors to my Onkyo receiver. When I played the DVD-A of the dvd, the sound only came in the fronts, nothing from the rears. When I played the Dolby Digital version of the dvd, full surround. Is that normal? Why wouldn't DVD-A play surround? I also thought DVD-A was above dolby digital.



Make sure you have the analog cables connected to the 5.1 outputs and not the 2.0 downmix located on the far left. Make sure in the Oppo setup, you've selected 5.1, not Downmix. Make sure you are set to RAW, not PCM. On the disk, make sure you're selecting Surround/MCH (or whateve it's called), not 2 channel. Make sure on the receiver, you select Ext/in, 6-8 Channel Direct (or whatever it's called on your AVR). On a HK receiver you must select the 6/8 channel direct mode and the Oppo automatically detects the analog signal. On a Denon it's Ext/in not Direct/Auto.


DVD A, depending on the disk, is quite a bit better than DD or DTS.


PM me if you still can't get it to work correctly.


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure you have the analog cables connected to the 5.1 outputs and not the 2.0 downmix located on the far left. Make sure in the Oppo setup, you've selected 5.1, not Downmix. Make sure you are set to RAW, not PCM. On the disk, make sure you're selecting Surround/MCH (or whateve it's called), not 2 channel. Make sure on the receiver, you select Ext/in, 6-8 Channel Direct (or whatever it's called on your AVR). On a HK receiver you must select the 6/8 channel direct mode and the Oppo automatically detects the analog signal. On a Denon it's Ext/in not Direct/Auto.
> 
> 
> DVD A, depending on the disk, is quite a bit better than DD or DTS.
> 
> 
> PM me if you still can't get it to work correctly.



A) Thank you very much!


B) Crap, I got some variables to test tonight...


----------



## mgugs46

I was able to get a new Onkyo TX-SR605 on Ebay for 396.00 ... good price??


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A) Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> B) Crap, I got some variables to test tonight...



Another thought...you are running 6 analog cables out of the Oppo aren't you?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> I was able to get a new Onkyo TX-SR605 on Ebay for 396.00 ... good price??



Yep, good price. Make sure they're authorized though.


Onkyo 605 is $399 shipped from J&R and they're authorized. Out of stock temporarily.


----------



## mgugs46

what would happen if they are not authorized?


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what would happen if they are not authorized?



This is quoted from Onkyo's website:


"All Authorized Internet Dealers display the Onkyo Authorized Internet Dealer logo on their Websites.


To ensure that you receive the quality products and service that you are entitled to when you purchase Onkyo products, it is important that all your purchases of Onkyo products be made only from Onkyo or an Onkyo authorized dealer. Only products purchased directly from Onkyo or an Onkyo authorized dealer will be covered by Onkyo's warranty!"


I don't think they are unique in this regard though.


----------



## mgugs46

anyone have any experience with the Polk PSW12 sub?


----------



## slubu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another thought...you are running 6 analog cables out of the Oppo aren't you?



No, the only cables on my oppo are a) the red/black rca to the onkyo, b) the optical toslink to the onkyo, c) dvi/hdmi to my tv.


----------



## tbacos

Is $750 a good deal for this set?


Klipsch RF-35 Floorstanding Speakers (pair)

Klipsch RC-35 Center Channel Speaker

Klipsch RS-35 Surround Sound Speakers (pair)


If so, will I be happy with them?


Thanks.


-tony


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slubu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, the only cables on my oppo are a) the red/black rca to the onkyo, b) the optical toslink to the onkyo, c) dvi/hdmi to my tv.



That's the issue...to get 5.1 DVD A, you have to connect to the AVR via the 5.1 analog outputs...one for each channel...along with everything else I mentioned above.


Not as complicated as it sounds...it's similar to setting up the AVR.


----------



## mgugs46

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone here that offered up suggestions/help.


Here is what I ended up with - or will, once its all delivered:


Onkyo TX-SR605 [little nervous about that one since its off Ebay, but supposedly new]

Polk R300 [2]

Polk R150 [2]

Polk CSI3

BIC H100


With all the shipping added in it came out right around 1k, which is a little higher then I wanted, but I knew once I went with the more expensive receiver [605 instead of 504] that I would be at or over 1k ...


Now to find some cables ... With HDMI, is there an HDMI that does 1080p and HDMI that won't do 1080p? I see some reference 1080p and others do not .... ???


----------



## mgugs46

For example, is there any reason that this cheap cable would not work?

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch...iteria=AA34740


----------



## indolent

I'm fairly new to this stuff, thankfully I found this thread. I've decided to go with 2 x-ls's an 1 x-cs for my fronts and will just use some older sony stereo speakers for my rears until I can upgrade.


Now I'm trying to decide on a receiver. The onkyo 504 seems to be a popular choice. I just had a question about one of the amazon reviews. It said that the receiver can't remember individual channel settings for each source input. Is this true?


One other option someone recommended to me is the Pioneer vsx-816. I don't recall seeing this one mentioned in this thread. It seems to be going in the $160 range for refurbished ones from their factory store on ebay. Is this one any good?


Any other recommendations I should look at?


Thanks


----------



## Dipablo

after pouring through these threads i decided to pick up a yamaha rx-v661 receiver. now i was wondering which speakers would compliment this well. i need all of them fronts, center, sub, and surround. im looking to spend around $500-$700 for them. any suggestions are very appriecated. thanks.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indolent* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One other option someone recommended to me is the Pioneer vsx-816. I don't recall seeing this one mentioned in this thread. It seems to be going in the $160 range for refurbished ones from their factory store on ebay. Is this one any good?
> 
> 
> Any other recommendations I should look at?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Didn't know that Pio had an ebay store too...Yes, I'd go with the 816 over the 504. Check out the HK auctions too. Though they are sending me my third in 2 years...they sound sweet...and ya got to love their warranty.


----------



## Mikeoz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Didn't know that Pio had an ebay store too...Yes, I'd go with the 816 over the 504. Check out the HK auctions too. Though they are sending me my third in 2 years...they sound sweet...and ya got to love their warranty.



Either you're working the hell out of your receivers or something isn't right with their quality..







Although a warranty is available I'd like to think the receiver would long outlast its warranty and I'd like to think I wouldn't have to use it for a long while..? Do some of the HK receivers tend to crap out often?


----------



## blynch1985

Hi, I am new to this, just starting my first audio system. I have been been browsing this forum and ended up picking up a pioneer vsx-816 receiver from cc for $200. (if this isn't a good deal, or isn't the best receiver for my setup let me know since I can return it within 30 days)


So I have the vsx-816 and am currently running 4.0 with 4 75watt 4 ohm klipsch satelites from an old 4.1 promedia thx computer setup. I am looking for an upgrade path to eventually replace all of these speakers and eventually have 5.1 or 7.1 for a pretty decent setup for my apartment.


I assume the first thing to get would be a sub. Looking at the av123 x sub. Would this fit my setup well?


Please let me know what you think my upgrade path should be.


Thanks, B


also I am running about 50/50 music/tv(regular cable). I don't yet have a way to set up the cable to play through the receiver. I am running music to the receiver through a laptop from the audio out and a y-adaptor. I am thinking about getting a usb audio card with spdif out to output sound to the receiver. Would one of the cheap $30 usb cards work fine for this? Would also like to use the laptop for playing dvds/other videos.


----------



## CrysDark

Feed Back Please; going for a 3.1


Onkyo 504

Center & Sub from AV123 (kinda blew my budget on these)


Polk r150 bookshelf's?


Am I going to have a problem going cheap on the bookshelf's speakers, I plan to upgrade alter but I can't afford the av123 bookshelf's.


Thoughts?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Either you're working the hell out of your receivers or something isn't right with their quality..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although a warranty is available I'd like to think the receiver would long outlast its warranty and I'd like to think I wouldn't have to use it for a long while..? Do some of the HK receivers tend to crap out often?



Hey Mike,


I posted on this thread about a month ago that my 2nd 235 crapped out and that I would no longer unconditionally recommend the refurb HKs from ebay. I decided to go with a Denon 2307CI and was going to sell the replacement that HK sends me. After quite a bit of playing with the Denon, I'm still not sold on the SQ...it's not bad, just not as good as the entry level HK. HK has been very apologetic and offered a free upgrade to the 245 and for a bit more a 445 with a new 2 year warranty. Since I don't need the power or features, I'm going to try the 245 against the Denon and sell the loser.


Many have had absolutely no problem with their refurbs, but I'm not alone. I still think it's a ballzy unit with outstanding SQ, a no questions asked warranty and excellent HK customer service. Just a caution...if I'm an indication, you might be playing musical AVRs. I still think it's a great way to go...I'm out ~ $250 total for the purchase and replacements. Hope you have better luck.


----------



## G-star

just wanted to chime in with my own experience. i bought an H/K 235 refurbished in December '05, and have not had any problems with it thus far. i found it to have significantly better SQ and featureset than the onkyo i was coming from.


i feel for ron and his "musical receivers" merry-go-round, but just wanted to say that i had a different experience. at least the customer service was good, and he's getting to play with some new gear.


----------



## tbacos

HK445 vs Onkyo 605...thoughts???


----------



## msummers80

I'll chime in as well on the refurbished HK receivers sold on eBay by the company. I bought a 335 from them in April of last year, and haven't had any problem with it. I haven't used all of its features yet, but the ones I have used performed well. It is my first and so far only receiver, but I am very well pleased with the looks, sound, and function of the receiver. One thing that sold me on HK was the impression most people had that they give real, or even understated specs where most of the industry inflates numbers.


----------



## nozerider

I think HK makes the best looking receivers on the market. However, reading the receiver forum, it seems to have a prevalent track of problems.


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Feed Back Please; going for a 3.1
> 
> 
> Onkyo 504
> 
> Center & Sub from AV123 (kinda blew my budget on these)
> 
> 
> Polk r150 bookshelf's?
> 
> 
> Am I going to have a problem going cheap on the bookshelf's speakers, I plan to upgrade alter but I can't afford the av123 bookshelf's.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?



Opinions oh great ones?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Opinions oh great ones?



not saying i'm a "great one", but i'll jump in...










don't mismatch your center channel and mains....bad idea. music, dialog, whatever will sound weird as the sound pans across the front three. from what you mentioned, either go with all polks arcross the front, or all AV123. matching the rears is not as critical, but still desirable.


the onkyo receiver sets a standard for value at $150, and the x-sub is a good deal at $200. good options if you're looking to keep costs low and quality relatively high.


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> not saying i'm a "great one", but i'll jump in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't mismatch your center channel and mains....bad idea. music, dialog, whatever will sound weird as the sound pans across the front three. from what you mentioned, either go with all polks arcross the front, or all AV123. matching the rears is not as critical, but still desirable.
> 
> 
> the onkyo receiver sets a standard for value at $150, and the x-sub is a good deal at $200. good options if you're looking to keep costs low and quality relatively high.



What center will tonally match the r150's? There are like 6 different polks on this list.


Also I am looking into those HK auctions, can you get good deals on those?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> just wanted to chime in with my own experience. i bought an H/K 235 refurbished in December '05, and have not had any problems with it thus far. i found it to have significantly better SQ and featureset than the onkyo i was coming from.
> 
> 
> i feel for ron and his "musical receivers" merry-go-round, but just wanted to say that i had a different experience. at least the customer service was good, and he's getting to play with some new gear.



Don't feel sorry for me







. I put 2 more powerful receivers into the mix a Pio 1015, a true 120wpc and the Denon a true 100wpc. I like them both, but prefer the HK sound. I watch a ton of movies, but my rig is a combo 2channel/HT with 2 outboard amps supplying the power. Since I don't, at this time, need the video features, I need a sweet sounding processor that gets out of the way for music. Some friends of mine have been using the 2xx series HKs as pre/pros, but experimenting with separates. The HKs SQ stacks up very well against more expensive dedicated gear.


The QA aspect of these refurbs has been a bother, but I keep coming back. I'm sure the 245 I get tomorrow will have some legs in it.


I'm aware of 2 or 3 other folks that have had to replace these refurbs, but since HK Direct auctions off 5 or 6 a day, that's really not a large percentage.


The wattage ratings on HKs are very deceiving (or not). They deliver a few more watts than spec'd, all channels driven, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Large caps and power supplies deliver current. The 2xx series can deliver >35Amps, which is getting close to what a dedicated amp of around 150wpc @ 8 ohms offers or over 2x what's coming out of your wall... headroom for those demanding peaks that ask for milliseconds of watts at 10 or 20x the average draw. This, in my mind, is why the HKs sound so good compared to other receivers that arguably are more powerful. They aren't...just a different design and/or measured differently. That's not taking into account the AVRs that fudge their specs (most entry level AVRs).


So I'm still a fan...


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What center will tonally match the r150's? There are like 6 different polks on this list.
> 
> 
> Also I am looking into those HK auctions, can you get good deals on those?




You can get GREAT deals on HK Direct ebay auctions. Closing in the next 6 hours they have several receivers for bid. These are the current bid prices as of 11:27 PST (2:27 EST)


2 AVR 745's $610

AVR 245 $180

AVR 240 $152

AVR 335 $233

AVR 645 $406


Obviously those prices could go up before the bidding ends in a few hours but this is just an idea of what kind of deals you can get. And remember they come with the manufacturers full 2 year warranty.


Its that power in reserve that Ron mentioned which contributes to the HK's sounding so sweet. I know my 325 provides more punch that my Onkyo 573 which claims to have much power. My HK sounds very good with Athena speakers.


----------



## getagrip15

My home theater is growing ever so slowly. My wife just ordered me an Onkyo tx-sr604 for my birthday, and I'm planning on going for a BIC H-100 soon. Then all I will need are surrounds to polish off my 5.1 system.


One quick question about my surrounds. I think I'm gonna have to mount my surround on the side walls behind my main sitting area. They will have to be up near the ceiling. Is that gonna screw things up being that far away (6-7 ft)? Also, my R and L speakers are Acoustic Research ARXP62s. Would a set of Mission M70s work well as surrounds? I would just go with the smaller acoustic research speakers, but they are still quite large and I don't think I can mount them. Any help is appreciated!


----------



## RaveD

I'm pretty dizzy reading through this entire thread and not much closer to an answer, so I thought I'd just ask.


Budget: $1,000

Want: Receiver, subwoofer, 5 matched smallish speakers that can be wall mounted and look relatively unobtrusive (center speaker will be placed below wall mounted plasma).


Room is about 15x12 with open space behind the listener's area (so surround speakers mounted on side walls aligned with listener's ears).


I've got the ORBs and love them but they're a bit over my budget for this room.


Suggestions?


----------



## afrogt

I think Velodyne still has the CHT front row 5 piece system in white for $199. I read it somewhere on this forum that you have to call Velodyne direct to order them now.


Here's a link to a pair of the Front Row satellites. The 5 piece system would include 2 pairs of satellites and a center channel speaker. The center is actually dark gray or black which would probably match your plasma.
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/pro...V&sid=401g475d 



Or you could buy 3 pairs of the white satellites for $207. Then you'd have a spare speaker just in case.


Another option would be the Mission M70 system for $239 which comes with a dedicated center speaker in charcoal.
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229 


3 pairs of the M70 satellies would go for $210 and once again you'd have an extra speaker.


Either system would leave you plenty of $$ for your receiver and sub.


One complete sub/sat system is the Athena Micra 6. Goes for about $400 and I believe shipping is inlcluded. Leaves you up to $600 for your receiver.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=ATMICRA6 



This might go slightly over your budget but may be the best choice. $799 in white or silver due to overstock. Shipping might put you over $1000 even with an inexpensive receiver though.
http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_white.cfm 


Cheapest receiver would probably be the Onkyo 504 which can be found under $200. Or if you get lucky, one of the refurb HK's from HK Direct on ebay.


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What center will tonally match the r150's? There are like 6 different polks on this list.



please advise


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> please advise



CSi25, CSM, CSR are the same speaker and timbre match (slight cosmetic differences), CS1 and CSi3 will work.


----------



## mgugs46

In a 5.1 set up, is it better to have the surrounds behind the listener, or off to the sides?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a 5.1 set up, is it better to have the surrounds behind the listener, or off to the sides?



It depends on your room setup. If your seating positions are on the back wall, sides facing the LP vs. wall mount facing down. If you have some room...wall mounts or stands behind and slightly above angled toward the sweetspot.


----------



## mgugs46

I have a few feet behind the seating area ... maybe 3'? So, behind, wall mounted, angled towards the sweetspot then?


----------



## tbacos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can get GREAT deals on HK Direct ebay auctions. Closing in the next 6 hours they have several receivers for bid. These are the current bid prices as of 11:27 PST (2:27 EST)
> 
> 
> 2 AVR 745's $610
> 
> AVR 245 $180
> 
> AVR 240 $152
> 
> AVR 335 $233
> 
> AVR 645 $406
> 
> 
> Obviously those prices could go up before the bidding ends in a few hours but this is just an idea of what kind of deals you can get. And remember they come with the manufacturers full 2 year warranty.
> 
> 
> Its that power in reserve that Ron mentioned which contributes to the HK's sounding so sweet. I know my 325 provides more punch that my Onkyo 573 which claims to have much power. My HK sounds very good with Athena speakers.



Thanks for the tip. I got tired of weighing receiver options so I put in a bid and won the auction for the AVR645. Not a bad deal to save over $1,000 off of MSRP. I hope I like it.


Now I just need to be impulsive with a 5.1 speaker set. I'm thinking of taking a gamble on the x-series at **********, but I actually prefer the look and of the Athena set at audioadvisor better. With my seating position directly against the rear wall, will I be happier with di-pole speakers like the surrounds in the Athena set?


-tony


----------



## afrogt

Congrats on the AVR 635. You got a great price!


I have Athenas F1, C2 and B1 in my HK 325 setup and they work well with the receiver. I couldn't be happier especially for the price I paid. I got some crazy deals at Best Buy when they were on clearance and purchased all 5 speakers for less than $300.


But if you're going for fit & finish of the speakers, you should take another look at the X-series. That's some top notch speaker building going on over there.


Here are some high res photos of the X-series stuff.
http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/...r=4041&thumb=1 
http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/...r=3120&thumb=1 
http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/...r=3121&thumb=1 


They use real wood on those speakers. Everyone raves about the build quality. The x-ls bookshelves weigh 17lbs each while the x-cs center weighs 30lbs.


The only downside is the long wait, they always seem to be backordered. Shipping probably isn't cheap either.


----------



## CrysDark

Thank you Alt-HTIB Gods.


I decided to go with:


Polk CSi25 (E-expo)

Polk r150 (Frys)

X-Sub (AV123)


Still have 250 in my budget for a reciever I am hopping to snag a good deal from HK e-bay (almost had a 245 for 200 untill some guy ninja bidded me while I was in the kitchen...)


I am thinking of bidding on the 240, wondering if I should hold out for another 245 to show up or look at something else, thoughts?


----------



## tbacos

Thanks - those pics looks nicer than the smaller ones on their site. Maybe I'll just place an order and then keep an eye out for a good deal on used speakers while I wait for shipment...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbacos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks - those pics looks nicer than the smaller ones on their site. Maybe I'll just place an order and then keep an eye out for a good deal on used speakers while I wait for shipment...



That's a pretty good idea. That's a ton of AVR you picked up...excellent DACs, Faroudja chip for video upscaling and over 50 amps of power (IIRC). The x-series are pretty special, but there are always surprising finds on CL. If something looks interesting...ask here. As I said earlier, used is where the real value is.


----------



## tbacos

It's done, along with creating an RSS feed to the speaker listing at craigslist. Let the best deal win!


It should be interesting to see if I get better picture quality from SD cable if I have the HK645 upscale it, compared to letting my Samsung 5064 tv do the job...


----------



## obryo

Three days ago, I had my mind set on buying the Onkyo HT-SR800 Home Theater System. I had no clue Home audio, but all I know is that I wanted my house to rumble when watching action movies. I wasn't sure if the HT-SR800 had enough juice to do that since it was only a $400 system, so I started some searching.


Luckily, I found this thread almost immediately. Having read entirely through the thread, I must say, I have been enlightened! Seeing all the great reviews by everyone, I have managed to piece me together a system that I believe will fit my needs for a 14' by 16' room.


Speakers

Main/Surrounds -> Athena AS-B1.2 ($99 x 2 at AudioAdvisor)

Center -> Athena AS-C1.2 ($99 at AudioAdvisor)


Sub -> SVS PB10-NSD ($429 at SVS)


Receiver -> Onkyo TX-SR504 ($180 at B&H)


Shipping -> $80


Thanks everyone for the help!!!! I can't wait to hear my house rumbling!


----------



## Nightman116

I've been reading the threads and came here to post my question. I've been reading up on HTIB and thought the Onkyo HT-SR800S would fit my needs as a surround sound system.


My question here is my budget is running around $600 and wondering if i purchase the speakers and receivers separate would it be worth it?


Currently, i have a dvd player, projector and screen waiting for the complete sound. I have also been trying to research 7.1 vs 5.1 with a room 21x14.5. Any suggestions?


Thanks


----------



## CrysDark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nightman116* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been reading the threads and came here to post my question. I've been reading up on HTIB and thought the Onkyo HT-SR800S would fit my needs as a surround sound system.
> 
> 
> My question here is my budget is running around $600 and wondering if i purchase the speakers and receivers separate would it be worth it?
> 
> 
> Currently, i have a dvd player, projector and screen waiting for the complete sound. I have also been trying to research 7.1 vs 5.1 with a room 21x14.5. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanks



According to this thread yes, you can set up a sweet system with a little time and research that is leaps and bounds better.


Well I am hopping at least I just placed my orders from four different places.


Read the last couple pages, for ideas and then post what you think you would like for feedback, sort of how this thread is going right now.


----------



## RaveD

Thanks for the suggestions.


It seems the biggest limiting factor in my case is the need for a center channel that is wall mountable and looks decent underneath my black plasma TV, plus surrounds that can wall mount and tilt downwards.


Thanks to advice here, I'm leaning towards the following:


Athena - Micra 6 package


Onkyo 504 (I'm not a Sony fan but I don't like what I hear about the HK's breaking down)


Keeping in mind this is for a room I won't be spending all that much time in, so I'm not looking for an audiophile setup, just a decent sounding system for watching movies from time to time.


Would the Polk R10 system, plus BIC subwoofer, offer substantially better quality than the Athena package? I'd rather not spend an extra few hundred.


This is a great thread


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RaveD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> 
> It seems the biggest limiting factor in my case is the need for a center channel that is wall mountable and looks decent underneath my black plasma TV, plus surrounds that can wall mount and tilt downwards.
> 
> 
> Thanks to advice here, I'm leaning towards the following:
> 
> 
> Athena - Micra 6 package
> 
> 
> Onkyo 504 (I'm not a Sony fan but I don't like what I hear about the HK's breaking down)
> 
> 
> Keeping in mind this is for a room I won't be spending all that much time in, so I'm not looking for an audiophile setup, just a decent sounding system for watching movies from time to time.
> 
> 
> Would the Polk R10 system, plus BIC subwoofer, offer substantially better quality than the Athena package? I'd rather not spend an extra few hundred.
> 
> 
> This is a great thread



What are you looking to spend and what size room?


----------



## RaveD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Confusedsoul* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are you looking to spend and what size room?



Looking to spend no more than $1,000, preferably closer to $800.


The room is about 15' x 15' with open space behind the listener.


----------



## Ron Temple

The only problem I have with the Micras is that they used to be so cheap...~ $200 IIRC. Still they had many fans. The Polk RM10s are probably decent, but I wouldn't think they are that much better if at all. You might want to look at the Hsu sat packages...they are in your budget, are nicely reviewed and the subs are superior to anything Athena or Polk puts out.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The wattage ratings on HKs are very deceiving (or not). They deliver a few more watts than spec'd, all channels driven, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Large caps and power supplies deliver current. The 2xx series can deliver >35Amps, which is getting close to what a dedicated amp of around 150wpc @ 8 ohms offers or over 2x what's coming out of your wall... headroom for those demanding peaks that ask for milliseconds of watts at 10 or 20x the average draw. This, in my mind, is why the HKs sound so good compared to other receivers that arguably are more powerful. They aren't...just a different design and/or measured differently. That's not taking into account the AVRs that fudge their specs (most entry level AVRs).
> 
> 
> So I'm still a fan...



great way to break it down ron...it jives with my own experience with several receivers (onkyo, sony, pioneer H/K, marantz). those H/K receivers are built like tanks and the published power specs are deceiving. its tough to explain quantitatively, but the H/K just sounds sweeter and has a unique "punch" to it. made me a believer in the importance of a good amp.


----------



## yellen1

Hi, I've reading this thread for a while in an attempt to put together a cost effective home theatre. I have come up with this formula, if you will, to achieve that. I would like to get impute from the users of this thread in order to make a final determination before I go for it,


Room size = 1500 cubic square feet


onkyo tx sr605

Samsung LN T4065- waiting for bug free version to get to local CC

Panasonic BD 10a - pre-ordered from 1 call

panamax 5300 -waiting for price to level off a bit more

Hsu Performance 1 speaker pkg


I eagerly await your collective opinions










Thanks to all who have contributed so much for those of us who know so little.


----------



## mgugs46

Quick question:


Anyone know of any good shelves for holding the Polk R150's? I was not aware originally that they could not be wall mounted, so, now I need me some shelves










Any reccomendations?


Also, is there a way to actually wall mount these ... I know Polk's site says "Wall mount them in your workshop or basement rumpus room for industrial strength and durability"


Actually, will these work? http://common.csnstores.com/common/p...P/VP0028_l.jpg 


Also, in using a mount like this, doesn't that mean you will see speaker wire coming from the wall?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> 
> Anyone know of any good shelves for holding the Polk R150's? I was not aware originally that they could not be wall mounted, so, now I need me some shelves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any reccomendations?
> 
> 
> Also, is there a way to actually wall mount these ... I know Polk's site says "Wall mount them in your workshop or basement rumpus room for industrial strength and durability"
> 
> 
> Actually, will these work? http://common.csnstores.com/common/p...P/VP0028_l.jpg
> 
> 
> Also, in using a mount like this, doesn't that mean you will see speaker wire coming from the wall?



The mount looks very serviceable...yes on the wire. Your choice is to run it up the wall and out behind the speaker or up from the floor and paint the wire.


----------



## mgugs46

Actually after further review it looks like the wire will run through the mount, and be concealed ... I already have my basement pre-wired through the wall


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgugs46* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually after further review it looks like the wire will run through the mount, and be concealed ... I already have my basement pre-wired through the wall





Come on over do and mine...please


----------



## slenser

I set my R50s up a few days ago. I have not listened to music this much in a long time. I swear I'm hearing parts of music I didn't hear before. These are connected to my Onkyo Stereo Reciever as of now. I'll be buying an HK AVR receiver off ebay soon to replace the Onkyo. Previously, I had an LG HTIB and it was horrid compared to this setup I currently have. Even the picture improved when switching to my kids's Sanyo DVD player. These are absolutely superb speakers and fully recommend them. I don't know how any speakers could sound better. My only regret is not being able to find matching cherry surrounds. I may have to buy another set of R50s but it seems somewhat wasteful. I love my Polks!










Off the subject, but I have now had three DVD players and one TV/VHS go bad in about a month! The gremlin has hit my house! I only have one DVD player left until I buy a new one. I'm afraid to use it!! LOL


----------



## Dipablo

Like i had said in an early post, i just got a yamaha rx-v661. i was hoping some of you could give me some input on the speakers i think ill will buy.


fronts will be polk r50's

surrounds will be polk monitor 40's

center will be polk cs2

sub will be bic h-100


will this setup compliment my rx-v661? is this setup good for my room which is 12'x14'? should i go with a differrent setup?


Thanks


----------



## slenser

My room is 11' x 24' x 9' ceilings. My R50s work beautifully. I can't comment on the others, since I am too new to this stuff. You might be steered away from the monitors though. Timbre differences, I think.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dipablo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like i had said in an early post, i just got a yamaha rx-v661. i was hoping some of you could give me some input on the speakers i think ill will buy.
> 
> 
> fronts will be polk r50's
> 
> surrounds will be polk monitor 40's
> 
> center will be polk cs2
> 
> sub will be bic h-100
> 
> 
> will this setup compliment my rx-v661? is this setup good for my room which is 12'x14'? should i go with a differrent setup?
> 
> 
> Thanks



The receiver is fine...normally you'd want your front soundstage to match or be superior speakers if you're not going with all the same line. The R50s are good, but the monitors are a higher line...might work fine...could be a mismatch. If you have a Frys around go listen to the speakers you're interested in to see if you notice...then get what you want.


----------



## yellen1

Hi all,


I know this thread is for alernative htib.. but some news about Blu-Ray..BlockBuster has made blu-Ray their main attraction... The WAR is over


----------



## Confusedsoul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yellen1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I know this thread is for alernative htib.. but some news about Blu-Ray..BlockBuster has made blu-Ray their main attraction... The WAR is over




Sigh, I quit another forum because of these kind of posts, not here as well


----------



## Tulpa

Seriously.


----------



## yellen1

I do apologize. I thought, obviously wrongly, that all manner of news regarding all devices that comprise our home theatre systems was relevant to the choices including, but not limited to, speaker systems...


----------



## Dipablo

thanks for the input, sadly i live about 4 hours from the nearest city that MIGHT have a decent electronics store and its hard for me to get out there on weekends. so i have to rely on all of you here in this great forum to help direct me. ill start looking into some other surrounds and a center. any suggestions?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yellen1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do apologize. I thought, obviously wrongly, that all manner of news regarding all devices that comprise our home theatre systems was relevant to the choices including, but not limited to, speaker systems...



let's keep it to the budget audio side of things....OK? i don't think there's any interest in seeing this thread devolve into a format war debate.


thanks.


----------



## RaveD

Seems a lot of suggestions here are for bookshelves, but I need a center that wall mounts (or brackets to top of plasma TV) which seems to be a limiting factor.


What is the consensus on using 3rd party brackets to mount bookshelf speakers to the wall? Shelves are not appropriate for me because they need to be mounted up high and angled downwards.


I feel safer going with a speaker designed for wall mounting like the Polk R10 but it seems there are better sounding alternatives...


----------



## griff32

Okay,


You guys have convinced me not to buy a 7.1 packaged speaker system for my Yamaha 661 receiver. I am trying to put together a reasonable package within my budget, and would like some advice. My room is 14X18. Here is the system I am thinking about


Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker

POLK AUDIO R150 surrounds

HB-1 Horn Bookshelf Speaker Front left and right

Dayton SUB-100


what do you think. I am not an audio nut, but I would like to enjoy my home theater I am trying to build, and the sound is a important part.


Thanks


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yellen1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do apologize. I thought, obviously wrongly, that all manner of news regarding all devices that comprise our home theatre systems was relevant to the choices including, but not limited to, speaker systems...



There's a difference between making an announcement in the proper forum (and I'm sure it is already being discussed in the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD forums) and going into a random thread and blaring some announcement about a barely peripheral topic.


Especially when it's apparently trumpeting speculation that would only result in a flamewar.


FYI, speakers really don't care what the source of the sound is, as long as they can use the signal.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griff32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay,
> 
> 
> You guys have convinced me not to buy a 7.1 packaged speaker system for my Yamaha 661 receiver. I am trying to put together a reasonable package within my budget, and would like some advice. My room is 14X18. Here is the system I am thinking about
> 
> 
> Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker
> 
> POLK AUDIO R150 surrounds
> 
> HB-1 Horn Bookshelf Speaker Front left and right
> 
> Dayton SUB-100
> 
> 
> what do you think. I am not an audio nut, but I would like to enjoy my home theater I am trying to build, and the sound is a important part.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Keep at least the LCR fronts in the same speaker/line or close...


Athena B1.2/C1.2/B1.2

Polk R150/CSi25/R150

Hsu HB-1/Hsu center (if any)/HB-1


you'll be much happier...if you can swing a Hsu package, AV123, SVS - SBS-01s, it's worth the $ to have a matching balanced system...killer for HT and music. If you can't then the Polks all around are probably the cheapest for a very nice quality entry level HT. Upgrade the sub if you can afford it.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griff32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay,
> 
> 
> You guys have convinced me not to buy a 7.1 packaged speaker system for my Yamaha 661 receiver. I am trying to put together a reasonable package within my budget, and would like some advice. My room is 14X18. Here is the system I am thinking about
> 
> 
> Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker
> 
> POLK AUDIO R150 surrounds
> 
> HB-1 Horn Bookshelf Speaker Front left and right
> 
> Dayton SUB-100
> 
> 
> what do you think. I am not an audio nut, but I would like to enjoy my home theater I am trying to build, and the sound is a important part.
> 
> 
> Thanks



If you're buying the HB-1 Bookshelf for your L&R speakers, you should buy the HC-1 center channel to match. Your front 3 speakers should be the same or matching center from the same product line.


The surrounds are not quite as important but ultimately if all 5 speakers were from the same line, it would be best.


What's your budget?


Also, the newer Dayton budget subs haven't been as well reviewed as the original models. You might want to go with this Velodyne VX-10 for only $5 more.
http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...960&id=VLDVX10


----------



## yellen1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's a difference between making an announcement in the proper forum (and I'm sure it is already being discussed in the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD forums) and going into a random thread and blaring some announcement about a barely peripheral topic.
> 
> 
> Especially when it's apparently trumpeting speculation that would only result in a flamewar.
> 
> 
> FYI, speakers really don't care what the source of the sound is, as long as they can use the signal.



it seems to me that you are doing all the "blaring" and "trumpeting". I apologized. I'm new to this. Now get over it, or don't.


----------



## tbacos

Anyone heard the Klipsch Quintet SL 5.0 set yet?

http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...er-system.aspx 


I just picked em up at BB on something of a whim (20% off sale ended today), but my receiver won't arrive for a couple days so I can't try them out yet. I have 30 days to return em if I decide not to keep them. Out of the box, the fit and finish seems nice enough, although they weigh less than I would've expected. Not sure if that should concern me, or if that's just a psychological thing.


I'm no audiophile, but I'll post my impressions as soon as my HK645 receiver shows up...


-tony


----------



## Sig-Sauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbacos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone heard the Klipsch Quintet SL 5.0 set yet?
> 
> http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...er-system.aspx
> 
> 
> I just picked em up at BB on something of a whim (20% off sale ended today), but my receiver won't arrive for a couple days so I can't try them out yet. I have 30 days to return em if I decide not to keep them. Out of the box, the fit and finish seems nice enough, although they weigh less than I would've expected. Not sure if that should concern me, or if that's just a psychological thing.
> 
> 
> I'm no audiophile, but I'll post my impressions as soon as my HK645 receiver shows up...
> 
> 
> -tony



Did i read those specs right ?? it lists .75" drivers ???? If thats the case they would make a great headphone, although you will look a little silly with all those speakers on your head


HEHE nevermind i went back and re read all the specs LOL 3.5" drivers


----------



## tbacos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did i read those specs right ?? it lists .75" drivers ???? If thats the case they would make a great headphone, although you will look a little silly with all those speakers on your head
> 
> 
> HEHE nevermind i went back and re read all the specs LOL 3.5" drivers



lol - now I'm worried...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did i read those specs right ?? it lists .75" drivers ???? If thats the case they would make a great headphone, although you will look a little silly with all those speakers on your head
> 
> 
> HEHE nevermind i went back and re read all the specs LOL 3.5" drivers



Funny post...







. but I'm wondering why you chose an AVR from the top of mid-fi with BB bottom of the line Klipcsh. Not to say they don't sound good...I heard them on a computer setup that rocked. You've got a receiver that online sells for ~ $600...you need speakers that will let you show it off. With that receiver I'd pair it with Polk Rti8s, av123 sls towers, Ascend 340ses, etc.


Always room to grow, I suppose...(hey I'm not knocking your choice, if that's the way you want to go...enjoy it.)


----------



## tbacos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Funny post...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . but I'm wondering why you chose an AVR from the top of mid-fi with BB bottom of the line Klipcsh. Not to say they don't sound good...I heard them on a computer setup that rocked. You've got a receiver that online sells for ~ $600...you need speakers that will let you show it off. With that receiver I'd pair it with Polk Rti8s, av123 sls towers, Ascend 340ses, etc.
> 
> 
> Always room to grow, I suppose...(hey I'm not knocking your choice, if that's the way you want to go...enjoy it.)




Well that's why I'm asking.







I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what in the sam-hill I'm doing...


I do know that my wife doesn't want floor standers, and that the bookshelf speakers in the AV123 set (my other front-runner) are a couple inches bulkier than I would prefer for my set up. I have about 7 inches of space on each side of my screen and beneath it - anything bigger and I will need to raise the plasma mount a few inches higher than I would prefer for viewing nirvana.


I'm open to, nay _begging for_, your suggestions...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbacos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well that's why I'm asking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what in the sam-hill I'm doing...
> 
> 
> I do know that my wife doesn't want floor standers, and that the bookshelf speakers in the AV123 set (my other front-runner) are a couple inches bulkier than I would prefer for my set up. I have about 7 inches of space on each side of my screen and beneath it - anything bigger and I will need to raise the plasma mount a few inches higher than I would prefer for viewing nirvana.
> 
> 
> I'm open to, nay _begging for_, your suggestions...



Ah...WAF...I know your pain, but I ignore it anyway...







. The x-series are not especially tall, but extremely deep...check out the SBS package from SVS, they are pretty trim and sound great...if they're too big then I'm kind of out of recs...I'm just not a sat fan...though my wife would like me to be. Maybe the Aperion or Mordaunt packages...Orbs???


----------



## griff32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep at least the LCR fronts in the same speaker/line or close...
> 
> 
> Athena B1.2/C1.2/B1.2
> 
> Polk R150/CSi25/R150
> 
> Hsu HB-1/Hsu center (if any)/HB-1
> 
> 
> you'll be much happier...if you can swing a Hsu package, AV123, SVS - SBS-01s, it's worth the $ to have a matching balanced system...killer for HT and music. If you can't then the Polks all around are probably the cheapest for a very nice quality entry level HT. Upgrade the sub if you can afford it.



Thanks Ron I will look into it.


----------



## griff32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're buying the HB-1 Bookshelf for your L&R speakers, you should buy the HC-1 center channel to match. Your front 3 speakers should be the same or matching center from the same product line.
> 
> 
> The surrounds are not quite as important but ultimately if all 5 speakers were from the same line, it would be best.
> 
> 
> What's your budget?
> 
> 
> Also, the newer Dayton budget subs haven't been as well reviewed as the original models. You might want to go with this Velodyne VX-10 for only $5 more.
> http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...960&id=VLDVX10



Afrogt,


My budget is around $600, I already am over budget, and want to keep the speakers at least close to this number. I was going to go with one of the Onkyo 7 speaker system, to get back on budget, but after reading on here about the importance of speakers I have actually increased my budget.


I appreciate everyones help.


----------



## griff32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griff32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron I will look into it.



Here is what I am thinking about now



Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers L/R

Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center

Athena - LS-50 Bookshelf Rear and Surround

Velodyne Acoustics - VX10 Sub



It brings me in around $550


----------



## T3h Professor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griff32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is what I am thinking about now
> 
> 
> 
> Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers L/R
> 
> Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center
> 
> Athena - LS-50 Bookshelf Rear and Surround
> 
> Velodyne Acoustics - VX10 Sub
> 
> 
> 
> It brings me in around $550



How would you all compare the speakers above to the following in the same price range:


Polk r300 L/R

Polk CS1 Center

Polk R150 Rears/Surround

Same sub


I'm leaning towards the polk set now just because I want my fronts to be floorstanders. If anyone can reccomend me a different set of floorstanding speakers in the same price range, I'm all ears.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How would you all compare the speakers above to the following in the same price range:
> 
> 
> Polk r300 L/R
> 
> Polk CS1 Center
> 
> Polk R150 Rears/Surround
> 
> Same sub
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards the polk set now just because I want my fronts to be floorstanders. If anyone can reccomend me a different set of floorstanding speakers in the same price range, I'm all ears.



Maybe R50s instead of the 300s, but those Polks will make you happy. Frys/Outpost give those things away...anything you find at similar price points (at least the floorstanders) won't be nearly as well built or sound as good.


----------



## getagrip15

Hey. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who assisted me on setting up my home theater. I've just about got all the pieces together and so far it's sounding really good. Still need to do some tweaking once I get everything completely done. I should be getting some Dayton satellite surround speakers today, and they will replace an old pair that I've been using. I'll post later and let you know how they perform. I've heard they aren't too bad, and for $32 bucks a pair I figured they'd be worth checking out. I'm also using my dad's velodyne vx10 sub temporarily until I can get my bic h-100. The velodyne sounds much better than any HTIB sub I've heard, but it still doesn't blow me away. Anyway, thanks again.

Here's my system setup:

Panasonic TH-42PX60U 42" Plasma HDTV

Onkyo TX-SR604 7.1 Channel A/V Receiver

Acoustic Research ARXP62 and ARXP242C center

Dayton SAT-BK satellite speakers

Velodyne VX10 - soon to be replaced by BIC H-100

Panasonic Upconverting DVD Player

Dish Network HD DVR

Nintendo Wii


----------



## T3h Professor

Thanks Ron.


So if I upgrade to the R50's is that the matching center? Or is there another one that matches it better?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron.
> 
> 
> So if I upgrade to the R50's is that the matching center? Or is there another one that matches it better?



CSi25 is the correct timbre match and I liked the CS1, but exchanged it for a CSi3 that I stole. Any of these will work fine though the CSi3 is brighter than the Rs.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *getagrip15* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's my system setup:
> 
> Panasonic TH-42PX60U 42" Plasma HDTV
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR604 7.1 Channel A/V Receiver
> 
> Acoustic Research ARXP62 and ARXP242C center
> 
> Dayton SAT-BK satellite speakers
> 
> Velodyne VX10 - soon to be replaced by BIC H-100
> 
> Panasonic Upconverting DVD Player
> 
> Dish Network HD DVR
> 
> Nintendo Wii



great TV (i own one too....







), solid receiver. i'd love to hear your thoughts on the speakers...don't know much about the acoustic research line, but they seem like solid budget speakers. i'm more curious about the Dayton speakers....$32/pr seems like a steal if they are at all decent. the Velo sub is a nice entry level sub that will sound good for music, but won't dig too deep. the Bic will get you several Hz more extension and I think is a better overall fit for HT-first setups.


good luck with the new gear, check back in with your thoughts once you've put the system through the paces.


----------



## Mikeoz

Ron, it seems like issues with my HK avr235 are starting to pop up already..







I'm not sure what the issue is, but just now the receiver wouldn't turn on. I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it still woudln't turn on. I pulled it out of the rack and shook it/smacked it a little and tilted it and now it will turn on...?








Did you experience this problem with your avr235? I guess I'll wait for it to happen again, and then I'll think about sending it back.. It's pretty sad because the receiver has great SQ, but HK's quality seems to be overall hit or mis..


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> great TV (i own one too....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), solid receiver. i'd love to hear your thoughts on the speakers...don't know much about the acoustic research line, but they seem like solid budget speakers. i'm more curious about the Dayton speakers....$32/pr seems like a steal if they are at all decent. the Velo sub is a nice entry level sub that will sound good for music, but won't dig too deep. the Bic will get you several Hz more extension and I think is a better overall fit for HT-first setups.
> 
> 
> good luck with the new gear, check back in with your thoughts once you've put the system through the paces.



I'm really enjoying the Acoustic Research speakers. They are very clear and look very good(Well, I think so. My wife thinks they're a little big). They look nice on pair of cheap stands and have good range. They can produce pretty good bass, if used without a subwoofer. I don't have a whole lot to compare them with. My dad has a Boston setup and I don't think his sounds any better than mine. I have a friend with an Onkyo S790 HTIB and mine sounds MUCH, MUCH better. So glad I didn't go that route.

About the Dayton speakers...I'm happy with them. I wouldn't say I've "put them through the paces" yet, but I like them so far. They aren't very heavy at all, but they look pretty good, and as far as I can tell, they sound pretty good too. They are definetly a good bargain for $32 bucks.

You're right about the Velodyne sub. It's ok, but it won't hit the low stuff. Can't wait to get that BIC and see how it compares.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron, it seems like issues with my HK avr235 are starting to pop up already..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what the issue is, but just now the receiver wouldn't turn on. I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it still woudln't turn on. I pulled it out of the rack and shook it/smacked it a little and tilted it and now it will turn on...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you experience this problem with your avr235? I guess I'll wait for it to happen again, and then I'll think about sending it back.. It's pretty sad because the receiver has great SQ, but HK's quality seems to be overall hit or mis..



No I had issues with both going into Protect mode, the 2nd one was a pain from the start. Sorry to hear you're sharing some of my gremlins. I've got the name of a Harmon CS rep that's been helpful to me. If you want it, PM me...I'll forward it to you.


They did upgrade me to a 245 which is working fine and sounds great.


----------



## zoman504

I have a question for you guys. I just purchased a new sammy 4661 lcd, so im good there. Im going with a yamaha v661, so thats good to go. Now im down to speakers. I have a logitech z5500 setup now but i want to upgrade, but im on a budget. I have older acoustic research 328ps towers and a jbl n-center speaker. I was planning on using those then using the logitech speakers for rears. I know most of you are prolly gagging hearing the these different speakers mixed together, but i dont have a lot right now, maybe $400-500 to spend on speakers, so what should i do. Do i focus on my l-c-r, or get all new rears?


----------



## Tulpa

The front three need to be tonally matched to sound right, and that generally entails they come from the same manufacturer.


You can mix brands if you have to, but any sound going from left-center-right and vice versa will probably have a tonal shift when it goes from a front to the center channel. It may bug you (I know it would bug me), so if you can either find mates for the towers or the center, it'll work out better.


----------



## mgugs46




> Quote:
> So if I upgrade to the R50's is that the matching center? Or is there another one that matches it better?



I just bought this almost exact Polk set up:


r300 fronts

r150 surround

csi3 center

bic h-100 sub


All connected to my new Onkyo 605 ... speakers sound great, now if the workers would hurry up and finish my basement I could finally take delivery of my Toshiba 65" DLP and set everything up right and really test em out ...


But anyhow, the speakers sound real nice, albeit right now they are all sitting in my kitchen, all next to each other, just so i could hear them


----------



## LandShark22

Ok after lots of research (this thread helped me tremendously) and debate, last night I ordered the last pieces of my "HTIB Alternative" 5.1 system. I'm very fired up! I'm confident it will smoke pretty much any HTIB out there, and I think the Bang for the buck factor is VERY high.


Here is what I ended up with, my budget was 1K:


AVR - Onkyo SR505 - $249


L/R: Athena B2 6.5" Bookshelves - $88 for the pair (refurb)


Center: Athena C1 - $99


Rear: Athena IW6 6.5" In-Walls - $139 (seems goofy to pay more for rears than fronts, but had to have the in-walls due to room setup and WAF)


Sub: BIC H100 - $200 (before shipping)


Total: $775!!! So even after shipping, speaker stands, and cabling I'm still under my 1K budget.


I have never really bought any audio gear, and was going the HTIB route until I found this forum and this thread. Thanks Everyone! I'll post a report and some pics when I get it all set up.


----------



## zoman504

I was able to pick up the yamaha v661 for 330 and ended up getting the kef kht 2005.2 speakers for 275 w/o the sub. Any good sub rec. for 100-200?


----------



## Staple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoman504* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was able to pick up the yamaha v661 for 330 and ended up getting the kef kht 2005.2 speakers for 275 w/o the sub. Any good sub rec. for 100-200?




If you don't mind me asking, *zoman504* where did you pick up that Yammy? That price is really cheap!


----------



## zoman504




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Staple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, *zoman504* where did you pick up that Yammy? That price is really cheap!



Amazon, its 347, sorry. Should i pick up an athena 4100 sub for 130?


----------



## RaveD

I'm setting up a modest budget home theater and wondering about the BIC V80 subwoofer.


I know everybody likes the H-100 but is the V80 a decent choice? Or is it really worth spending double for the H-100?


Not looking for room shaking thundering bass, just something to nicely round out my system which includes an Onkyo 504 receiver and small 5.1 speakers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LandShark22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok after lots of research (this thread helped me tremendously) and debate, last night I ordered the last pieces of my "HTIB Alternative" 5.1 system. I'm very fired up! I'm confident it will smoke pretty much any HTIB out there, and I think the Bang for the buck factor is VERY high.
> 
> 
> Here is what I ended up with, my budget was 1K:
> 
> 
> AVR - Onkyo SR505 - $249
> 
> 
> L/R: Athena B2 6.5" Bookshelves - $88 for the pair (refurb)
> 
> 
> Center: Athena C1 - $99
> 
> 
> Rear: Athena IW6 6.5" In-Walls - $139 (seems goofy to pay more for rears than fronts, but had to have the in-walls due to room setup and WAF)
> 
> 
> Sub: BIC H100 - $200 (before shipping)
> 
> 
> Total: $775!!! So even after shipping, speaker stands, and cabling I'm still under my 1K budget.
> 
> 
> I have never really bought any audio gear, and was going the HTIB route until I found this forum and this thread. Thanks Everyone! I'll post a report and some pics when I get it all set up.



Nice setup...you're going to love it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RaveD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know everybody likes the H-100 but is the V80 a decent choice? Or is it really worth spending double for the H-100?



Haven't heard the other Bic sub, but the H-100 was given a lift up by Dr. Hsu, who consulted...it's surprised nearly everyone who's heard it because the SQ vs cost. $200 for a sub is extremely cheap considering the parts alone.


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> great TV (i own one too....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), solid receiver. i'd love to hear your thoughts on the speakers...don't know much about the acoustic research line, but they seem like solid budget speakers. i'm more curious about the Dayton speakers....$32/pr seems like a steal if they are at all decent. the Velo sub is a nice entry level sub that will sound good for music, but won't dig too deep. the Bic will get you several Hz more extension and I think is a better overall fit for HT-first setups.
> 
> 
> good luck with the new gear, check back in with your thoughts once you've put the system through the paces.



After a couple days with the Dayton surrounds, I still really like them. I hear plenty of good surround effects through them and they aren't that bad on their own. I got myself a bargain! Compared to the surrounds in my buddy's Onkyo S790 HTIB, they are great. Much better looking too.


----------



## CrysDark

I am trying to decide on a receiver for my set I have 357.00 left in my budget. I would like to have at least the capability for Component/Composite/S-Video to be able to all be on one output (I realize to have this over HDMI is out of my price range) but are there any that will do it over one component cable? I don't need upscaling (and actually would prefer if it didn't because of the double upscaling to my 1080p LCD).


Please Advise


----------



## hpnas

Here is my thought process:


Receiver: Onkyo SR-605

Fronts: Athena B1.2

Center: Athena C1.2

Sub: BIC-H100


What rears would match nicely with the B1.2's? Also, are there any cheap stands for the B1.2's that anyone could recommend?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hpnas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is my thought process:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo SR-605
> 
> Fronts: Athena B1.2
> 
> Center: Athena C1.2
> 
> Sub: BIC-H100
> 
> 
> What rears would match nicely with the B1.2's? Also, are there any cheap stands for the B1.2's that anyone could recommend?



If you can find a pair of Athena Point5s they would be an excellent choice. They have the same tweeters and would match very well. They are discontinued but you can still usually find them used on ebay.


If that doesn't work I'd also check ebay for a another pair of B1.2s or B1. You can find excellent deals on them if you search a little.


I ordered these stands for my B1s and are happy with them. Don't know what you consider cheap in price but they are very good quality.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...45&rak=240-762 


Nice System


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am trying to decide on a receiver for my set I have 357.00 left in my budget. I would like to have at least the capability for Component/Composite/S-Video to be able to all be on one output (I realize to have this over HDMI is out of my price range) but are there any that will do it over one component cable? I don't need upscaling (and actually would prefer if it didn't because of the double upscaling to my 1080p LCD).
> 
> 
> Please Advise



You have several choices a few are the Onkyo 574, 575, Yamaha RXV659, you might also cosider the onkyo 604 which I just searched and is in your range from an authorized retailer. It's being replaced by the 605 so the price is coming down but probably won't last long. It'll give you 2 HDMI inputs but will only upconvert to component which is what your wanting, it also adds a few other nice features over the 5xx series.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you can find a pair of Athena Point5s they would be an excellent choice. They have the same tweeters and would match very well. They are discontinued but you can still usually find them used on ebay.
> 
> 
> If that doesn't work I'd also check ebay for a another pair of B1.2s or B1. You can find excellent deals on them if you search a little.
> 
> 
> I ordered these stands for my B1s and are happy with them. Don't know what you consider cheap in price but they are very good quality.
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...45&rak=240-762
> 
> 
> Nice System



I ordered these stands for my Athenas last week. Shipping is around $20 but this is a nice quality stand and they look good!

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENCST


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hpnas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is my thought process:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo SR-605
> 
> Fronts: Athena B1.2
> 
> Center: Athena C1.2
> 
> Sub: BIC-H100
> 
> 
> What rears would match nicely with the B1.2's? Also, are there any cheap stands for the B1.2's that anyone could recommend?



Another pair of B1.2 would be the ultimate match and the Point 5 sats would work too. I just ordered these surrounds from Audio Advisor. They should be here tonite or tomorrow. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=2ATRTSRS1B 


Sound Dynamics is a sister company to Athena and Energy. For the low price, I was willing to give it a try. These are discontinued speakers but come with full 5 year warranty. Also they're obviously easy to wall mount.


----------



## MemoryInAGarden

I snagged an HK AVR 525 last night on eBay for $160. I was looking at some good floorstanding L/R's to go with it, and if the price is right, possibly do a full 5.1 system now.


The Polk R50s seemed to have a good word and I can get 4 of them for less than a pair Polk Monitor 50s. If I go with the R50s, I will probably get them with a CSI25 center channel and the BIC-H1000 or the 8" model from Hsu Research.


I could also go with the Polk Monitor 50s and the Elemental Designs A5-300 and get more speakers later.


Does anyone have experience with both the Monitors and R50s? The system will primarily be used for music, with occasional HT and console gaming.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MemoryInAGarden* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I snagged an HK AVR 525 last night on eBay for $160. I was looking at some good floorstanding L/R's to go with it, and if the price is right, possibly do a full 5.1 system now.
> 
> 
> The Polk R50s seemed to have a good word and I can get 4 of them for less than a pair Polk Monitor 50s. If I go with the R50s, I will probably get them with a CSI25 center channel and the BIC-H1000 or the 8" model from Hsu Research.
> 
> 
> I could also go with the Polk Monitor 50s and the Elemental Designs A5-300 and get more speakers later.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with both the Monitors and R50s? The system will primarily be used for music, with occasional HT and console gaming.



I personally prefer the R50s over the M50s. What the R50s lack in detail to the Monitors, they have a larger, warmer, midrange. Now the M60s are a different animal. If you can afford them with an ED sub and add M40s or 30s later, you'll have a very nice system.


----------



## LostInSpace

Anyone find a good wall-mount for the polk R-15s?


Thanks.


----------



## CrysDark

Any thoughts on the Onkyo 605


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrysDark* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on the Onkyo 605



Nice receiver for the price although the 604 is a better budget deal right now depending on your needs. There is a tread in the receiver forum on the 605 with pages and pages of thoughts.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MemoryInAGarden* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I snagged an HK AVR 525 last night on eBay for $160. I was looking at some good floorstanding L/R's to go with it, and if the price is right, possibly do a full 5.1 system now.
> 
> 
> The Polk R50s seemed to have a good word and I can get 4 of them for less than a pair Polk Monitor 50s. If I go with the R50s, I will probably get them with a CSI25 center channel and the BIC-H1000 or the 8" model from Hsu Research.
> 
> 
> I could also go with the Polk Monitor 50s and the Elemental Designs A5-300 and get more speakers later.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with both the Monitors and R50s? The system will primarily be used for music, with occasional HT and console gaming.



Congrats on your HK purchase. The 525 is a nice unit. Very powerful, much more so than its ratings. There's a lot of juice in that receiver. I have its little brother the AVR 325 and its weighs 40lbs. I bet the 525 weighs 45lbs. Be aware the 525 doesn't do any video upconversion to component nor does the OSD (on screen display) work over component. Just letting you know so you're not suprised later. Also, when using digital inputs you'll get a little delay before it recognizes the signal. Not a problem for me but some people complain because they don't hear all of the DD or DTS intro music when first playing a movie. Who cares? I sure don't.


Remember that bad boy was first manufactured in 2002 so it won't have all the up to date features of newer AVR's, but you'll sure love the sound!! And since your primary use is music, I think you'll like it.


You'll enjoy all the flexibility with speaker sizes, crossover points, etc. There's a lot you can do with that HK. It can be a bit overwhelming if you're not patient or don't read the manual thoroughly though. Have fun!


Afro GT


----------



## samsurd2

Been doing some research since I last posted on this topic. A quick summary: I had an HTiB (Sony HT-7000DH) but I replaced the AVR with an STR-DG1000 in May. I'm extremely happy with this choice but almost immediately I started looking for different speakers.


System usage is roughly 75% DVD/HDTV and 25% music. The room is about 18' x 13' (8' ceilings), with about half of one of the long walls opening to another room. I set my speaker budget at around $800 including shipping for a 5.1 bookshelf type system. I can't accomodate and frankly don't want any tower speakers. Here's a summary of the set ups I'm considering. Note that I already considered and eliminated SVS, AV123 x-series and Aperion for reasons of cost, size etc.


Here's my list - rankings/recommendations would be appreciated.


----------



## Sig-Sauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Been doing some research since I last posted on this topic. A quick summary: I had an HTiB (Sony HT-7000DH) but I replaced the AVR with an STR-DG1000 in May. I'm extremely happy with this choice but almost immediately I started looking for different speakers.
> 
> 
> System usage is roughly 75% DVD/HDTV and 25% music. The room is about 18' x 13' (8' ceilings), with about half of one of the long walls opening to another room. I set my speaker budget at around $800 including shipping for a 5.1 bookshelf type system. I can't accomodate and frankly don't want any tower speakers. Here's a summary of the set ups I'm considering. Note that I already considered and eliminated SVS, AV123 x-series and Aperion for reasons of cost, size etc.
> 
> 
> Here's my list - rankings/recommendations would be appreciated.




Suprised to see Infinity on your list don't really hear much about them in this thread. You didn't list any prices so its hard for me to really compare. Personally i like your Polk package, I would change it a little though. If space permits i think you would be wiser to chose the Monitor 40s for L+R with the CS1. You pick up 2 additional drivers for a minimal price increase and would have a very nice matched front stage. The 30s would be great for surrounds. You choice of the Polk PSW12 is a little odd to me since you have the Bic H100 there with 2 other packages. You would have to get a REALLY good deal on the PSW12 for me to pick it over Bic H100.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You choice of the Polk PSW12 is a little odd to me since you have the Bic H100 there with 2 other packages. You would have to get a REALLY good deal on the PSW12 for me to pick it over Bic H100.



yup, whatever speaker package you go with, the Bic over the PSW-12 is a no-brainer. in fact, i would spend less on speakers just to make sure a good sub was part of the package. i'm partial to athena's, but the polks have their fans and most of the other stuff you've listed would be fine as well.


get the best sub you can afford...makes all the difference in a budget HT.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You would have to get a REALLY good deal on the PSW12 for me to pick it over Bic H100.



Sometimes if you purchase a Polk package the PSW10 or 12 is thrown in as an accomodation. It wouldn't be my choice as a first sub...but the price being right would tempt me. Polk has made some decent subs, 404, 505, 650, PSW1000. These start ~ $350 - $800. They are also pretty excited about the new lineup for SQ, EQ and WAF coming later this year...don't know pricing or models yet.


If pricing is similar and I had the choice of a used 505,650 or PSW1000 vs a new Bic..I'd go Polk. If I had $300 for a sub I'd go ED A2-250.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

The surrounds on the 404 and 505 drivers are crazy they look like they could have 3 inches of travel. They actually sound really good for music. I don't know how low they go for HT though. I had a PSW10 that i got for free when i got my system it didn't sound bad for music at all. It did need to have the gain up all the way though and ran of poop when you turn it up loud. On their lower subs i don't think the drivers are bad. It is just that the amps are so underpowered.


----------



## zoman504

After the kef's fell through, this is what my setup will look like, any opinions?


Yamaha v661 $347

Athena f2.2's $200

Athena c1.2 $99.95

Surrounds are logitech z5500 speakers or Acoustic research towers i have for now

HSU STF-1 sub $150


i think for my budget, i did pretty well...


----------



## jrk264

I've been reading this incredibly helpful thread, and I just wanted to run my plan by everybody before I start making purchases.


I'm planning to get the following:

Onkyo TX-SR304

Polk R50 (Fronts)

Polk Csi25 (Center)

Polk R150 (Surrounds)

Bic H-100 (Sub)


From shopping around, it looks like this can all be put together for $700-$750 or so. My big question is on the receiver--with this setup, is there really any reason to go for the 504 over the 304? They both provide for component video switching, neither one does video upconvert/HDMI switching, and it seems like they both would be adequate to drive these speakers. It seems like it's not really worth going for a higher end Onkyo unless you're going to jump to the 674 to get the HDMI upconvert, which would be overkill for these speakers (receiver at ~40% of the budget is just wacky).


Is this an accurate assessment? I'd rather not have to buy a new receiver a week after getting everything set up.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoman504* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After the kef's fell through, this is what my setup will look like, any opinions?
> 
> 
> Yamaha v661 $347
> 
> Athena f2.2's $200
> 
> Athena c1.2 $99.95
> 
> Surrounds are logitech z5500 speakers or Acoustic research towers i have for now
> 
> HSU STF-1 sub $150
> 
> 
> i think for my budget, i did pretty well...



Is the $200 for the F2.2 for one speaker or a pair? If that's for a pair you got an outstanding deal.


----------



## zoman504




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the $200 for the F2.2 for one speaker or a pair? If that's for a pair you got an outstanding deal.



pair, ive spent the last week trying to stumble upon deals lol, from what ive been told and read everything ive ended up with should be pretty good quality wise, ill post some pics once its all set up for u guys.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrk264* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been reading this incredibly helpful thread, and I just wanted to run my plan by everybody before I start making purchases.
> 
> 
> I'm planning to get the following:
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR304
> 
> Polk R50 (Fronts)
> 
> Polk Csi25 (Center)
> 
> Polk R150 (Surrounds)
> 
> Bic H-100 (Sub)
> 
> 
> From shopping around, it looks like this can all be put together for $700-$750 or so. My big question is on the receiver--with this setup, is there really any reason to go for the 504 over the 304? They both provide for component video switching, neither one does video upconvert/HDMI switching, and it seems like they both would be adequate to drive these speakers. It seems like it's not really worth going for a higher end Onkyo unless you're going to jump to the 674 to get the HDMI upconvert, which would be overkill for these speakers (receiver at ~40% of the budget is just wacky).
> 
> 
> Is this an accurate assessment? I'd rather not have to buy a new receiver a week after getting everything set up.



the 304 would probably work, but Onkyo doesn't list any specs for this receiver on it's website...if it were me, I'd step to the 504 for some additional headroom.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the 304 would probably work, but Onkyo doesn't list any specs for this receiver on it's website...if it were me, I'd step to the 504 for some additional headroom.



Specs for Onkyo 304 receiver...
http://shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?prod..._id=1&detail=3


----------



## Jakeman02

performance wise the 304 and 504 will perform about the same. 10w difference in wattage which is meaningless unless you're driving low ohm speakers or at high volumes or in a very large room and in that case you shouldn't be looking at either one of these.


The 304 is limited in comparison as far as connections, less digital inputs etc. and is 5.1 vs 7.1 for the 504. If that meets your needs then the savings in price would be much better spent in another part of your system.


----------



## jrk264




> Quote:
> Specs for Onkyo 304 receiver...
> 
> (no links for newbies)



Thank you for posting this! The refurbished 304 is available for almost $100 less than the refurbished 504; given the setup proposed above and the specs here, is it worth it to go up to the 504?


I know it's generally a good idea to get the best equipment you can afford, but my thinking is that my speaker budget limits the total quality of sound that I can get, so I don't need to spring for a receiver where the improvement only shows up beyond that limit. If I ever become unhappy with the limit my speakers impose, I'll be spending enough money upgrading everything that I'd probably want to go for something better than the 504 anyway.


Thanks again to everybody for your advice. I'm horrible at translating spec numbers into real world effect, and I haven't found a store around here with enough of a selection to do decent A/B comparisons.


ETA: Thank you to a fellow Jake for providing the advice above. 5.1 is what I'm planning to set up, and I think the 304 provides just enough HD inputs to be getting by on (Wii, PS3, DirecTV).


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Thank you for posting this! The refurbished 304 is available for almost $100 less than the refurbished 504; given the setup proposed above and the specs here, is it worth it to go up to the 504?



If you're seriously looking to buy the 304, sign up for Club Onkyo at shoponkyo.com. The 304 price will go down to $99 and that includes free shipping. They also have a special on the top of the page for another 10% off June 22 - July 6. You might be able to take another $10 off as a new member at checkout too.


I myself would go 504 over 304 because of the binding post on the speaker terminals, 7.1 vs 5.1 and more digital inputs. Plus its XM ready if you have that service.


Not sure where you live but Fry's Electronics has had the 304 and 504 on sale new for $99 and $149 respectively at times over the last few weeks. Probably clearing out old stock since the 505 has been introduced.


----------



## bernielike

OK so I decided a few months ago to replace my aging stereo, speakers and TV. I was fully intending on just buying a Bose HTIB. As I did research (CNET), I decided maybe I should get the Sony HTIB, or the Denon HTIB, or even the NIRO HTIB. "Gimme an HTIB!!," I was telling myself. "That's the cool way to do it now. No hard setup, giant receivers, or cable hassles for me! Low profile, modern, cool, that's how I roll," I said.


Somehow I stumbled upon this thread, and, though I resisted the power of G-Star and his HTIB-hater minions at first (wouldn't it be easier to just buy an all-in-one system? Won't today's HTIB's sound just as good as a system of separates?) I finally saw the light. It just clicked one day when I was reading here: if I get even a cheap receiver and a forum-approved set of speakers I would be miles above any HTIB. And it would even be cheaper!


So after tons of research (ok most of it was here I'm still kind of lazy) I bought:


A Samsung LNT4661 TV -- $2150 on Amazon. Ridiculous picture, beautiful TV.


An Onkyo 505 -- yeah it's not really much better than the 504 and it costs more but hey, it's the '07 model. Sue me I like new stuff. Still, it was just $250 for state of the art, baby.


A set of AV123 X-series -- Palisander Natural wood finish. Just the front 3 (2xls, 1xcs) and an x-sub. My apartment is small and rented I'm not running wires. I can add the surrounds anytime. HOLY moly these are the nicest speakers I have ever seen and the whole set was like $700. Next to/under the amazing TV and on a cool steel rack/cabinet thing I got it looks so dope. SO DOPE. And the big wooden sub is jut beautiful, like a gorgeous little side table. And the SOUND. Wow. Seriously. I'm no audiophile but these have to be better than any speakers that come with an HTIB, right? I know everyone thinks the X-sub is just ok compared to Bic or the HSU's. But I like the pretty wood. And it still rocks my 20x15 room. Very clean bass. And I live in an old 20's 8-unit apartment building in LA let's be nice to the neighbors, right? Just a LITTLE nice.


So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?


----------



## zoman504




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK so I decided a few months ago to replace my aging stereo, speakers and TV. I was fully intending on just buying a Bose HTIB. As I did research (CNET), I decided maybe I should get the Sony HTIB, or the Denon HTIB, or even the NIRO HTIB. "Gimme an HTIB!!," I was telling myself. "That's the cool way to do it now. No hard setup, giant receivers, or cable hassles for me! Low profile, modern, cool, that's how I roll," I said.
> 
> 
> Somehow I stumbled upon this thread, and, though I resisted the power of G-Star and his HTIB-hater minions at first (wouldn't it be easier to just buy an all-in-one system? Won't today's HTIB's sound just as good as a system of separates?) I finally saw the light. It just clicked one day when I was reading here: if I get even a cheap receiver and a forum-approved set of speakers I would be miles above any HTIB. And it would even be cheaper!
> 
> 
> So after tons of research (ok most of it was here I'm still kind of lazy) I bought:
> 
> 
> A Samsung LNT4661 TV -- $2150 on Amazon. Ridiculous picture, beautiful TV.
> 
> 
> An Onkyo 505 -- yeah it's not really much better than the 504 and it costs more but hey, it's the '07 model. Sue me I like new stuff. Still, it was just $250 for state of the art, baby.
> 
> 
> A set of AV123 X-series -- Palisander Natural wood finish. Just the front 3 (2xls, 1xcs) and an x-sub. My apartment is small and rented I'm not running wires. I can add the surrounds anytime. HOLY moly these are the nicest speakers I have ever seen and the whole set was like $700. Next to/under the amazing TV and on a cool steel rack/cabinet thing I got it looks so dope. SO DOPE. And the big wooden sub is jut beautiful, like a gorgeous little side table. And the SOUND. Wow. Seriously. I'm no audiophile but these have to be better than any speakers that come with an HTIB, right? I know everyone thinks the X-sub is just ok compared to Bic or the HSU's. But I like the pretty wood. And it still rocks my 20x15 room. Very clean bass. And I live in an old 20's 8-unit apartment building in LA let's be nice to the neighbors, right? Just a LITTLE nice.
> 
> 
> So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?



Which rack do you have your sammy on, im looking for one at the moment.


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?



Please do! I personally love seeing everyone's setup.


I will be taking some pics of what I have tomorrow. I'm getting my new wall unit in. It's cherry, so my R50's will match nicely. I can't wait until it's delivered!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> A set of AV123 X-series -- Palisander Natural wood finish. Just the front 3 (2xls, 1xcs) and an x-sub.
> 
> 
> Seriously. I'm no audiophile but these have to be better than any speakers that come with an HTIB, right? I know everyone thinks the X-sub is just ok compared to Bic or the HSU's.
> 
> 
> So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?



Tje x-series are something special with the premium finishes and sound quality at that price. The x-sub is an excellent companion and it's a pickem decision over the Bic. For an apartment and a music first system, that's the way I'd go.


You did good


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?



yeah, it would be cool to see some pics. i would love to see/hear the AV123 speakers in person...to check out the finish and take a good listen.


sounds like a great apartment setup. a few more bucks than your run-of-the-mill HTIB, but you are light years ahead in the SQ department.


----------



## TylerNZ

Hi guys ... I'm a newbie to HT and am saving my pennies to finally get a system. I came across this post as I was trying to find middle ground between HTIAB systems and Components.


My original budget was $300, then $400 - and now $500.


Could someone (who knows what they're talkin' about) guide me to a 5.1 setup for the $500 mark?


Thanks!!!


----------



## getagrip15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TylerNZ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys ... I'm a newbie to HT and am saving my pennies to finally get a system. I came across this post as I was trying to find middle ground between HTIAB systems and Components.
> 
> 
> My original budget was $300, then $400 - and now $500.
> 
> 
> Could someone (who knows what they're talkin' about) guide me to a 5.1 setup for the $500 mark?
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!



Well, I don't claim to be an expert, but I just got my first home theater setup and it would probably be around your price range. I've compared it to a couple HTIB like onkyo s790 and it blows it away. For the receiver I got an Onkyo TX-SR604($300 refurb), but a Onkyo TX-SR504 would do nicely I think($150 refurb). You wouldn't have the HDMI with the 504, but you might be able to live without it.

For the front speakers I got Acoustic Research ARXP62 and a ARXP242C center channel. Those were from JR.com and cost roughly $200 for all 3 speakers. For the rears I got a set of Dayton SAT-BK from partsexpress and they are only $32 a pair. They sound pretty good too. I'm using my dad's velodyne vx10 until I get my own, but it sounds pretty good for movies. Not as great for music, but ok. It's only $150 though.

So that would put you at around $550 for a 5.1 system. My brother and dad put alot more money into their systems( denon receivers, boston speakers, etc.) and mine sounds just a good or better than theirs. If you wanna know what it looks like I posted a picture on page 41 of this thread. Just don't get sucked into to HTIB hole. My friend with an Onkyo s790 HTIB came over the other night and after listening said, "Wow, yours is alot better than mine." Hope this helps.


----------



## jrk264

Just wanted to check back in and thank everybody again for their input.


For the record (and for the assistance of anybody on a similar budget/taste curve), I wound up going with:

Onkyo TX-SR 304 Receiver ($85 refurbished w/shipping from shoponkyo)

Polk R50 Front L/R ($170 w/shipping from Frys)

Polk Csi25 Front Center ($90 w/shipping from Amazon)

Polk R150 Surrounds ($55 w/shipping from Frys)


I'm going to be patient about picking up the Bic H-100 from ebay, but figure I'll wind up paying around $240 w/shipping. So that's a pretty solid system well under my initial $750 budget. I'm looking forward to firing everything up once I move to my new place next month.


If you wanted to skimp on the subwoofer a bit (I'm using this for 95%+ home theater/tv/video games, so I'll be putting the sub to work) you could probably bring it in under $500.


One tip I've picked up--make sure you price everything with shipping. The cost is more than outweighed by the savings from retail (and taxes), but if you price to your budget limit without taking shipping into account, you'll be unhappy when you start placing orders.


I also personally like to make sure my components are all of similar quality. In the past, when I've put together a system (not just audio, but video/pc as well) where one component was dramatically better than the rest, it created a pretty strong urge to upgrade everything. Keeping everything on the same level helps control the "I should really buy higher quality X in order to do justice to my spiffy Y" line of thinking.


Thanks again everybody.


----------



## danncer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I am grateful, AVS die-hards. Thanks. Maybe I should post some pics . . . ?



Um, yes!










Also, since you're now part of the AV123 "family," you have got to post your pics on the AV123 forum (av123forum.com). I'm sure you'll be given a big welcome there.


Ann


----------



## bernielike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoman504* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which rack do you have your sammy on, im looking for one at the moment.




I have the whole setup on a "Midtown" natural steel 72" console from Room and Board. It is beautiful. like $799 I think . . .

http://www.roomandboard.com/rnb/coll...=378391&cat=55 


I will post pics in the next couple of days so everyone can see~


----------



## slenser

As promised, here is a pic of my new wall unit. Why is it, the dogs always seem to be around duting picture time? Pardon the crudy pic, I didn't clean my lens until I saw these. My R50s don't match as well as I had hoped, but they still look very nice standing there and sound even better!


----------



## blynch1985

zoman where did you find the athena f2.2s for $200 for a pair? I can't find anywhere selling 1 of them at that price.


I am building up my system, got a pioneer vsx 816 and a bic H100 so far (using with some old satellites right now). My next step is fronts/center. I was eyeing the polk r50 and Csi25 like a number of people here have, but if I could get f2.2s for $200 and the athena center that would be a much better deal right? I'm looking to spend $2-300 for fronts/center and I may hold off on the center for awhile if it will be closer to the $300 side.


----------



## gerhartm

I had originally planned to purchase a HTIB, but thankfully I took my time to browse the forums here and decided to assemble my own system. I apologize in advance for any misunderstandings I have about home theater systems - this is all still new to me.


So far, I've chosen the following hardware:


AV Receiver:

Panasonic SA-XR57

(Digital receiver with class-D amp, high power efficiency, accepts speakers with 6-8ohms)

$295


Subwoofer:

Bic Acoustech H-100

(Uses a BASH amplifier, seems to be highly recommended on these boards)

$280


Total so far:

$575 (shipping included)


I've heard that the Panasonic receiver tends to have a slightly bright sound, but also that it's one of the best sounding class-D receivers. I chose it for its power efficiency, its low heat generation, and small form factor (I don't have the space nor ventilation for a large analog receiver in my entertainment center.)


I've heard that the Bic Acoustech uses many of the same components as the Hsu STF-1, which appears to be viewed highly by most people. I couldn't find a Hsu STF-1 for under $320 (w/ shipping), though, and the Acoustech has much larger drivers than the STF-1 (8" vs 12"). I like both the STF-1 and the H-100's BASH amp because it supposedly has the benefits of class-d amps (low power consumption) with the sound quality of the class-a/b amps.


There are so many potential speaker options out there, however, that I haven't been able to make a decision on surround speakers. I've heard that receivers with class-d amps are a little more particular with what speakers they use, but don't know exactly what to look for. In addition, I want to choose speakers that work well with the frequency ranges of my subwoofer. I've considered getting the Bic Acoustech 65 (Center), 64 (Front right and left), 63 (Back right and left) to make things simpler, but couldn't find many opinions about them in the forums.


Since this is my first time purchasing a home theater system, I'm not predisposed toward or against any particular brands, but would like to keep my total costs around $1000 if possible. I live in a small apartment, so I care much more about audio quality than volume. I also plan to use the home theater about 90% for watching movies. I'm planning to make this initially a 5.1 system and order a sixth speaker for the back later on.


I'd appreciate any suggestions or insight you could offer me. Thanks!


----------



## jvivek

I wish there are Canadian that went and researched into alternatives that guide me. I will purchase everything from www.futureshop.com I just need help picking a combination. my budget is less then $800 Canadian.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

gerhartm

Have not really heard much about the Bic speakers. I did ask in the past and got fiew replies. I did hear that they are very bright because of the horn tweeter. Dependeng on your sound prefrences that combined with a bright reciever could be bad.


----------



## trilobyte

Hey guys, just wanted to say this is an awesome thread. I've spent a good 2 hours reading this thread already










I just moved into my first apartment and have been looking to build a modest living room setup. Due to budget reasons I decided to go with a 2 speaker setup to start and go from there. I still have to buy a couch!










I currently have an Optoma H31 projector which I'm using until I can save up and purchase one the newer pioneer 1080p 8th gen plasmas. With that in mind, I think spending the money on a Onkyo 605 receiver now will help me future proof the system when I get that new TV. Thoughts?


Finally, for the speakers. I'm digging the AV123 x-ls for my 2 fronts. A couple of questions... I'm opting out of a sub right now for price reasons (plus I'm on the third floor and wary of the new neighbors). What can I expect for low frequencies? Finally, how do they perform in low volume situations (again, the neighbors







)


----------



## bernielike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah, it would be cool to see some pics. i would love to see/hear the AV123 speakers in person...to check out the finish and take a good listen.
> 
> 
> sounds like a great apartment setup. a few more bucks than your run-of-the-mill HTIB, but you are light years ahead in the SQ department.




Yeah and it's not bad LOOKING either~


It sounds and looks incredible. As you can see these speakers are amazing. AV123 xls, xcs, x-sub all palisander natural. And the Samsung lnt4661 is not bad either.


Does anyone know where I should look to calibrate/set up this stuff the right way? I used the Audessey calibration thing but I still feel like the sub is not strong enough. If I turn up the volume on the sub it hums a bit. Maybe I just need to hire someone . . . or maybe move the sub to the corner. But I like it a lot where it is!


Here are some pics.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah and it's not bad LOOKING either~
> 
> 
> It sounds and looks incredible. As you can see these speakers are amazing. AV123 xls, xcs, x-sub all palisander natural. And the Samsung lnt4661 is not bad either.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know where I should look to calibrate/set up this stuff the right way? I used the Audessey calibration thing but I still feel like the sub is not strong enough. If I turn up the volume on the sub it hums a bit. Maybe I just need to hire someone . . . or maybe move the sub to the corner. But I like it a lot where it is!
> 
> 
> Here are some pics.



Very nice looking...great pics too.


As far as your sub...how big is your room? We can help you calibrate with a bit more detail...also, you'll need to pick up a Radio Shack SPL meter. You'll find it's an essential tool. If your room is too large, the x-sub just won't cut it, but placement will help...let us know.


----------



## bernielike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very nice looking...great pics too.
> 
> 
> As far as your sub...how big is your room? We can help you calibrate with a bit more detail...also, you'll need to pick up a Radio Shack SPL meter. You'll find it's an essential tool. If your room is too large, the x-sub just won't cut it, but placement will help...let us know.




The room is about 25x15. I did try some stuff that some others advised me to do -- I set the receiver crossover up to 80Hz, turned the sub output from -1 (where the Audessey calibrated it) up to +4 and put a plug attachment on the power cord to cover the ground prong. That got rid of the hum on the sub so I could turn it up.


I have much more bass now! I went to work very late today, just sat there blasting the new White Stripes in awe.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The room is about 25x15. I did try some stuff that some others advised me to do -- I set the receiver crossover up to 80Hz, turned the sub output from -1 (where the Audessey calibrated it) up to +4 and put a plug attachment on the power cord to cover the ground prong. That got rid of the hum on the sub so I could turn it up.
> 
> 
> I have much more bass now! I went to work very late today, just sat there blasting the new White Stripes in awe.



Glad to hear it...you've got a pretty big room for that guy to fill. The Denon autosetup is pretty good and Audessey does a good job with EQ. However, subs are tricky to place for a flatter, more linear response because every room is different. Most rectangluar rooms will have a suckout from 40-60hz at the listening position. By experimenting with placement and an SPL meter, you can minimize this.


----------



## slenser

I really like the looks of those speakers. I am very impressed.


----------



## bernielike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Glad to hear it...you've got a pretty big room for that guy to fill. The Denon autosetup is pretty good and Audessey does a good job with EQ. However, subs are tricky to place for a flatter, more linear response because every room is different. Most rectangluar rooms will have a suckout from 40-60hz at the listening position. By experimenting with placement and an SPL meter, you can minimize this.




Maybe I will try it in the front right corner of the room later. I was also advised to turn the speaker settings on the receiver to "small" so it sends all low frequencies to the sub.


What is a "flatter, more linear response" mean? What does it mean for a room to "suck out from 40-60Hz?" The lows get lost because of room geometry?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernielike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe I will try it in the front right corner of the room later. I was also advised to turn the speaker settings on the receiver to "small" so it sends all low frequencies to the sub.
> 
> 
> What is a "flatter, more linear response" mean? What does it mean for a room to "suck out from 40-60Hz?" The lows get lost because of room geometry?



Low frequencies are extremely long...they reflect off rear and side walls and bounce back upon themselves. This causes cancellation which will cause a dip, sometimes crevass, at certain frequencies...most commonly in the 40-60hz range...right in the heart of the LFE range and musical bass notes. Getting flat is getting your bass fairly even through out the sub's frequency response. For example, outdoors with no refecting walls, your sub will produce a slightly curving, but mostly flat FR from 28 - 150hz. In a perfect room, you would hear all this entire FR during playback and it would sound great. In reality, your room's FR is going to look like a mountain range with peaks and valleys that mask some of the bass. Your goal is to get as flat as possible and it will sound much better.


----------



## blynch1985

What would be my best choice for front l/r/center speakers in the $200-300 price range?

They will go with a pioneer vsx 816 receiver and a bic H100 sub. (Going to use some old speakers for surrounds for now)

Room is 12x12 open on one side into another 12x12 room. Use will be about 33/33/33 music/tv/movie


Looking at polk r50 and Csi25

Athena f2.2s (can't find them cheap enough though)

Athena AS-B1.2 and AS-C1.2

the av123 and svs speakers would be nice but they are out of my price range


Which of these speakers(or suggest different speakers) would fit my setup the best?


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gerhartm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've heard that the Panasonic receiver tends to have a slightly bright sound, but also that it's one of the best sounding class-D receivers. I chose it for its power efficiency, its low heat generation, and small form factor (I don't have the space nor ventilation for a large analog receiver in my entertainment center.)



FWIW, those are the right reasons to choose it.


Few people who actually own it call it bright, and no one who understands amplifiers does.


People may call it bright because it's not warm, but that just means it's not coloring the sound. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting your sound colored (almost everyone likes the sound of tube amps, at least for a while), but it's clueless to think that's accurate and disparage other amps.


No particular need to let that amp choice narrow your speaker selection, aside from the usual ohm and watts considerations.


It's far more important to think about how speakers interact with your room - if there are lots of reflections, hard surfaces, etc. Though getting the placement right can help with that.


----------



## zoman504




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blynch1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What would be my best choice for front l/r/center speakers in the $200-300 price range?
> 
> They will go with a pioneer vsx 816 receiver and a bic H100 sub. (Going to use some old speakers for surrounds for now)
> 
> Room is 12x12 open on one side into another 12x12 room. Use will be about 33/33/33 music/tv/movie
> 
> 
> Looking at polk r50 and Csi25
> 
> Athena f2.2s (can't find them cheap enough though)
> 
> Athena AS-B1.2 and AS-C1.2
> 
> the av123 and svs speakers would be nice but they are out of my price range
> 
> 
> Which of these speakers(or suggest different speakers) would fit my setup the best?



I heard the athena b1.2-c1.2 combo sounds good for the money, audioadvisor has a great deal on them right now. I ordered my c1.2 to go with my f2.2's on monday night and they were delivered today!


----------



## trilobyte

bernielike's post and pics pretty much sold me on the av123 x-ls







So I dropped some $$ on a pair w/ some floor stands. Looks like there's a waiting list however, so I'm wary as to when I'll get em.


In the mean time I'll need to find a receiver to pair these up with.


----------



## blynch1985

Anyone know how the polk r50s compare to the athena b1.2s? The polks are a bit more at $170 vs. $100 for a pair of b1.2s. I don't particularly have a preference for bookshelf or floorstanding and both have pretty good reviews here. If they are pretty similar I would go for the athenas, but if the polks are at really discounted price and if they are going to sound considerably better I would probably go for them as to me they look nicer as well.


----------



## Jakeman02

I haven't tried the R50s but I have done a side by side comparison with the r series booksheves from polk. I preferred the athenas sound better. To me it was more detailed and forward in the higher frequencies. That's a common trait of athena but it's also preference, alot prefer the warmer sound of polk. Doesn't make one better than the other and it's up to the listener. But that is considered to be a common difference. For the price I don't think you'd go wrong with either.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trilobyte* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> bernielike's post and pics pretty much sold me on the av123 x-ls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I dropped some $$ on a pair w/ some floor stands. Looks like there's a waiting list however, so I'm wary as to when I'll get em.
> 
> 
> In the mean time I'll need to find a receiver to pair these up with.



So was it cheaper for you to buy the bookshelf speakers plus stands or would it be cheaper to just get the tower speakers instead?


----------



## trilobyte

all together it was a little over $440 w/ shipping. I think the cheapest floor speakers at av123 were $900 (no shipping)


----------



## Echomalinois




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trilobyte* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> all together it was a little over $440 w/ shipping. I think the cheapest floor speakers at av123 were $900 (no shipping)




AV123 has the new X-SLS tower $319.00 a pair, they are basically an X-LS in tower form. There is also the new X-MTM tower $449.00 a pair, these are an X-CS in tower form. Not that you can go wrong with X-LS and stands. That is what I have since none of the towers were available yet.


----------



## trilobyte

:[] now I'm thinking I should just cancel and wait for those rofl


----------



## afrogt

The X-SLS tower is $319 pair and if you want the Palisander finish its $389/pr. Hence the reason why I questioned if it might be cheaper to go with towers instead of bookshelves with stands.

http://www.**********/products_produc...s&product=94.1


----------



## trilobyte

Yeah I didn't see those options before. Hopefully they won't be on a massive delay


*edit: lol, now I see the x-ls bookshelves are now moved to late July.


----------



## marcsorel

Hey Everyone-

Like many I've been lurking here for a bit, but now it's time to actually post:

I too was quite keen on the av123 speakers for my new place (moving in August), but sadly they are physically just a little too big for my furniture, and there's sadly no way around this.


In a world where the x-series speakers are not an option, what's the best I can do in their price range? Though they're mentioned in the original post, I haven't heard much talk about the SVS SBS-01 and SCS-01. Are these speakers fairly comparable in terms of quality for the money? If they're decent, here's the setup I'm probably looking at:


Fronts: SVS SBS-01

Center: SVS SCS-01

Surrounds: Athena LS-50's

Sub: X-sub or H-100

Receiver: HK 235


I picked the Athenas for their size as I can't do anything much bigger in my location.

I'd really appreciate any feedback people have on the SVS speakers and/or this setup as a whole.


Thanks,

-Marc


----------



## Jakeman02

Their is a thread on the SVS SB series speakers in the speaker forum. Check it out and post there and you should get some very good feedback on them. From what I've read everything has been positive on them.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marcsorel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a world where the x-series speakers are not an option, what's the best I can do in their price range? Though they're mentioned in the original post, I haven't heard much talk about the SVS SBS-01 and SCS-01. Are these speakers fairly comparable in terms of quality for the money? If they're decent, here's the setup I'm probably looking at:
> 
> 
> Fronts: SVS SBS-01
> 
> Center: SVS SCS-01
> 
> Surrounds: Athena LS-50's
> 
> Sub: X-sub or H-100
> 
> Receiver: HK 235
> 
> 
> I picked the Athenas for their size as I can't do anything much bigger in my location.
> 
> I'd really appreciate any feedback people have on the SVS speakers and/or this setup as a whole.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Marc



the SVS speakers are at least in the same ballpark as the AV123 X-series in terms of sound quality, though they don't have that real nice finish. from what i've read, they have a nice neutral, laid back type sound. i think ron temple has heard them in person.


the athena audition series are nice speakers too, and significantly cheaper. they pair nicely with the H/K amps...but i wouldn't expect them to sound quite as sweet as the x-series or even the SVS bookshelves. just another option if you want to save some $$$.


----------



## PWK2000

I am thinking of going with the HKs on ebay from the Harman store...


I don't really see much difference between the 140 240 or 340 other then watts per channel.


Has anyone compared these models? I will start out with a 5.1 Infinity Beta system. And by the time I am ready to move to a 7.1 setup I plan to get a new receiver with HDMI inputs.


----------



## 4mychloe

ok folks, been drinkin' and kinda happy right now







, so bear with me! due to the unfortunate layout of my tv viewing circumstances, i am virtually forced to go with a 2.0 system. my space for the speakers is limited to 10.5" depth, 10" height, 44" width. i am thinking of two center channel speakers (placed close to each other of course) and will have to put them about a foot above my tv (panny px75u - not an audiophile by _any_ stretch of the imagination, but this is a weak set of speakers IMO). i really don't need a lot of bass but the lower the better







. is it ok to use two centers as r/l this close to each other without sounding like COMPLETE and UTTER crap? remember, i'm no audiophile in the least sense, just want better sound than this tv has but don't want to regret setting things up the wrong way. i'm thinkin' the bic dv-62crls fit the bill nicely. any other suggestions as to which speakers would fit the bill would be sincerely appreciated. receiver ?'s to follow







. thank you all.


----------



## afrogt

Between the 140, 240 and 340 I'd go for the 240. The 140 doesn't have any pre outs to connect an external amp if you need more power. Plus its only 6.1 while the 240 and 340 are 7.1.


Major differences between 240 and 340 is extra digital inputs 3 optical, 3 coaxial on back on the 340 and 2 of each on the 240. I think the 340 also has a comprehensive room EQ feature and it also has multi room capabilities. The multi room isn't that big of a deal for me. 340 also has On Screen Display over the component video outputs whereas the 240 only does it over composite or svideo.


The 240 and 340 have more power in reserve than the 140. I guess it just depends what features are most important to you. I myself would opt for the 240. They seem to go around $190-$230 on HK's ebay auctions.


----------



## Ron Temple

The SVS speaker package is an upgrade from the Polk and Athena speakers we generally talk about. I'd place them slightly above entry level Ascends(can't remember the model), similar presentation, accurate and neutral with good imaging...not quite as good as the 170ses, but close. While excellent for music, they shine when bundled with the SVS subs for HT. As a music first speaker, I like the x-series...warm, smooth and an extremely wide soundstage, but SVS is close. For HT you can't go wrong with either.


----------



## tmj69

I am new to the HT world. I currently have a $300 Pioneer HTIB, and it is adequate. However, I am ready to put together a really good system for music and movies; one that will last me many years. Besides having a good quality system, the other requirement I have is I need a receiver w/ 2 zones so I can have tunes on my screened porch. The living room is 18' x 15', and opens into the kitchen. To complicate matters the house is on a slab, so it will be difficult to run the wires to the rear surrounds & the speakers on the screened porch, and still have the WAF.


I currently have a Sony XBR-970 CRT (the big bad 200 lb monster) as my HDTV. So the system needs to be compatible with that first & foremost. I have been researching the Onkyo HTS-907 as a HTIB. It seems hard to beat for the money. I have also been following this thread with great interest. Unfortunately, the majority of the speakers recommended on here are not available for listening in my area of Charlotte, NC (AV123, HSU, SVS, Orb, Mirage...) My total out the door budget meaning cables, surge protection, all components, speakers, sw, outdoor speakers... is $1500.


I am open to any and all suggestions to piece this together. Thanks in advance for your help, and providing such great information.


----------



## PWK2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Between the 140, 240 and 340 I'd go for the 240. The 140 doesn't have any pre outs to connect an external amp if you need more power. Plus its only 6.1 while the 240 and 340 are 7.1.
> 
> 
> Major differences between 240 and 340 is extra digital inputs 3 optical, 3 coaxial on back on the 340 and 2 of each on the 240. I think the 340 also has a comprehensive room EQ feature and it also has multi room capabilities. The multi room isn't that big of a deal for me. 340 also has On Screen Display over the component video outputs whereas the 240 only does it over composite or svideo.
> 
> 
> The 240 and 340 have more power in reserve than the 140. I guess it just depends what features are most important to you. I myself would opt for the 240. They seem to go around $190-$230 on HK's ebay auctions.



Thanks for the overview, it helped. I won the 340 on ebay for $270. Not bad but not all that great. I saw them going in the 250s half the time (but didn't notice till after I won) so for about $50 more I decided it was worth it over the 240.


I was all caught up in going after the 247 with hdmi, but I don't have any sources yet so by the time I am ready to upgrade hope to get a 247 or 347 on the cheap.


My system so far: (A month ago I was going to buy a HTIB)

Fronts: 1 Infinity Beta 50 - ebay $160

Center: 1 Infinity Beta c360 - local store $150 (found out it was slightly damaged and got the price reduced by $50 from my purchase price of $199)

Surrounds: 1 Infinity Beta es250 - local store $99

Receiver: HK AVR 340 - ebay $270


Hope to get a 10" sub in the $300 or under price range. Considering the eD A3-250/A2-250 or the HSU STF-1 or the BIC h-100


----------



## CrysDark

All my stuff is here (yay) However, I am such a newb I forgot all about speaker wire....


Please someone give me the 5 second education on cabling the system. I don't want to fall into any monster overpriced crap.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Please someone give me the 5 second education on cabling the system. I don't want to fall into any monster overpriced crap.


 www.monoprice.com and if they're out of stock try www.riteav.com 


Monster cable isn't necessarily bad, its just way overpriced.


If you need speaker wire right away, just go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some 16ga or 14ga speaker wire. They sell it by the foot on those big spools.


----------



## travis33

I'd like to thank all who contributed to this thread. I probably would have bought a HTiB if not for this thread. I decided to go with:


Fronts: Polk R300s

Center: Polk CSi25

Rears: Polk R150s

Reciever: Onkyo 304


And for the best part...


Sub: (2) Mach5 MJ-18s + Bash 300W Amp placed into the wall behind my screen (adjacent closet as the enclosure).


The infinite baffle root is one that I haven't seen talked about in this thread and I think it should be considered if you have the room. The two subs and amp cost me about $300 and I'd be willing to put them against any enclosed subwoofer under (at least any that I've ever heard). I cross them over at 100Hz and they shake the whole house. Very crisp and clear even in the infrasonics.


I'm pretty happy with my setup. I paired all this with a IN72 projector throwing at 75" and everything (audio+video) cost me about $1300, including wires.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *travis33* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sub: (2) Mach5 MJ-18s + Bash 300W Amp placed into the wall behind my screen (adjacent closet as the enclosure).
> 
> 
> The infinite baffle root is one that I haven't seen talked about in this thread and I think it should be considered if you have the room. The two subs and amp cost me about $300 and I'd be willing to put them against any enclosed subwoofer under (at least any that I've ever heard). I cross them over at 100Hz and they shake the whole house. Very crisp and clear even in the infrasonics.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty happy with my setup. I paired all this with a IN72 projector throwing at 75" and everything (audio+video) cost me about $1300, including wires.



If you've got the tools, time and skillset, DIY and IB are very rewarding. A friend of a friend was doing an IB around me...hopefully I'll get to hear it. I did a little DIY project myself with great results.


----------



## travis33




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you've got the tools, time and skillset, DIY and IB are very rewarding. A friend of a friend was doing an IB around me...hopefully I'll get to hear it. I did a little DIY project myself with great results.



Yeah, I heard my first IB last night when I finished mine (with a buddy's help), and it was... beautiful.


----------



## slenser

Do you have any pics of the install and finished product? I love pics!!!


----------



## tab10

I posted this in the Polk thread, too... but figure it might get more attention here. I started piecing some HT items together a few years ago and it really never got off the floor for me. Now, I am more financially stable, and ready to jump into the HT surround. The pieces that I didnt get rid of 2 years ago were 2 cherry floor standing R30s. Since I still have them (never used them), figure I might try to put them to good use.


Here is my initial idea...I am assuming it would be better than a HTiB


R50s up front

csi3 center

R30s rear


Is this a good budget setup so far? I know they are somewhat older speakers, but I don't need the latest and greatest. My main uses for it would be Xbox 360, sporting events, and movies.


My last question would be, what receiver and sub would you recommend to pair up with the Polk speakers that I am considering using???


Thanks from the noob who is trying to get back into home audio.


----------



## travis33

Tab,


I think your setup will sound pretty sweet because I know mine does and I have inferior polks than yours. I went with Onkyo's entry level HT reciever, the 304. It's a refurb that I got from Onkyo for less than $90 shipped.







It works just fine, but I have a small room (12'x11'). You may need a little more juice if your room is larger.


For a sub the BIC off ebay seems like the most popular


----------



## Blake9b

FYI Travis - the Refurbished 304's and 504's are sold out on shopOnkyo.com


Also, I have to ask - what does IB stand for?


----------



## tbacos

I ended up returning my Klipsch Quintets ($750 @ BB) and picked the following speakers up on craigslist for $350:


(1) set of Infinity Compositions Overture II MODEL OVTR 2

(1) Center Channel Infinity MODEL CC-3

(1) set Of Energys XL-R Diapold speakers


The improvement is dramatic. I couldn't be happier. My HTIB-alternative cost me a total of $800 and consists of the speakers above plus an HK645 receiver. Not too shabby...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbacos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ended up returning my Klipsch Quintets ($750 @ BB) and picked the following speakers up on craigslist for $350:
> 
> 
> (1) set of Infinity Compositions Overture II MODEL OVTR 2
> 
> (1) Center Channel Infinity MODEL CC-3
> 
> (1) set Of Energys XL-R Diapold speakers
> 
> 
> The improvement is dramatic. I couldn't be happier. My HTIB-alternative cost me a total of $800 and consists of the speakers above plus an HK645 receiver. Not too shabby...



Great find...I'm not familiar with those Infinitys, but I'd venture to say they are a much better speaker than the little Klipschs and most of the new speakers we talk about here.


Guys, pay attention to CL, do searches for Polk, Infinity, Klipsch or just speakers...you will be amazed at some of the deals you run acoss...$1000 speaker selling for $150. Sure they maybe older, but some are mint and will likely murder the entry level stuff we talk about here. Especially, if you are piecing together a 2.1 or 3.1 system. You can pickup matching centers and surrounds if you're patient and for a song.


Look at what this member hooked up with...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=854587 

http://www.polksda.com/rta11t.shtml 


Just did a search on tbacos new speaks...3 way, full range floorstander...what a score. Great job.


----------



## travis33




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI Travis - the Refurbished 304's and 504's are sold out on shopOnkyo.com
> 
> 
> Also, I have to ask - what does IB stand for?



IB = Infinite Baffle


It means using an adjacent room (closet/garage) as the "box" in a sealed subwoofer setup. I mounted them onto two MDF squares screwed onto two holes in the sheetrock of the closet behind my screen. I used two $75 18" subs with a $100 300Watt amp to power them. You don't need much power to drive them because there is no pressure building up in the enclosure. The result is an unearthly bass (loud and low) even at


----------



## T3h Professor

I know this has been answered in this thread already, but I couldn't find the answer. Which polk r series are wall mountable? I'm going to have to mount the rears and was originally looking @ the r150's...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know this has been answered in this thread already, but I couldn't find the answer. Which polk r series are wall mountable? I'm going to have to mount the rears and was originally looking @ the r150's...



Every Polk bookshelf is mountable with the proper tilting mounting brackets (don't ask me I don't know which ones), however, rear ported speakers need a couple of inches to breath.


----------



## blobula

Not sure if this question has been asked/answered...what are some nice, yet affordable speaker stands for the Polk R150s?


----------



## kentrl

Hello all... long time reader first time poster. Ive read through these threads multiple times as their is so much information to digest. Ive paid particular attention to Rons various posts. With that being said I just won a HK 340 from Ebay for $203.50 from the harmondirect. Now Im onto the speakers... Like everyone else Im looking for the best bang for my buck and advice. My budget is around $800. I watch movies but will be listening to music as well. I live in a medium size apartment. Im really leaning towards the Polk stuff but not sure were too start or which series. As far as sub I was looking a the AV123 X-sub. Any advice for the money mentioned is greatly appreciated.



ROB


----------



## Jakeman02

With an $800 budget I'd go for 2 pair x-ls and the x-cs with the x-sub, your total is still within your budget.


2nd choice would be a pair of R50s up front and R150s in the rear from outpost and get the center somewhere else, crutchfield has a better price on it. total on that would be


----------



## Ron Temple

Rob,


Jakeman02's on the money...you won't find a better setup for music at that price and music does HT just fine. I don't know if SVS still has the closeout deals going for the SBS package in white and silver, but if so, it's also a great contender. Primo for HT and very good for music, but the sub is what makes you think twice. The PB10 is > 2 x-subs, just as clean...an amazing performer.


You stole that 340...enjoy...and the great thing...if it hiccups...they send you a new one







.


----------



## kentrl




> Quote:
> 2nd choice would be a pair of R50s up front and R150s in the rear from outpost and get the center somewhere else, crutchfield has a better price on it. total on that would be
> 
> 
> Thanks Guys... What is the matching center for the Polks mentioned or the preferred rather?
> 
> 
> ROB


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kentrl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Guys... What is the matching center for the Polks mentioned or the preferred rather?
> 
> 
> ROB


 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-q2zoq9L...12100&I=107CSR


----------



## kentrl

Ron,


I looked up the SVS SBS package you mentioned. How do these compare with the polks or x-ls speakers mentioned earlier? The package they list on the site is $799.00. Is that a good price?


System includes two pair SBS-01 bookshelf speakers, SCS-01 center channel and PB10-NSD.


ROB


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kentrl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ron,
> 
> 
> I looked up the SVS SBS package you mentioned. How do these compare with the polks or x-ls speakers mentioned earlier? The package they list on the site is $799.00. Is that a good price?
> 
> 
> System includes two pair SBS-01 bookshelf speakers, SCS-01 center channel and PB10-NSD.
> 
> 
> ROB



I owned the entry level Polks R50s, 15s and a CSi3...I've heard the SBS package and the x-ls bookshelves (2channel).


The x-ls books are extremely interesting if you like to listen to music...they are very warm, detailed, very wide soundstage (outside the speakers), exceptional bass for a book and the highs are detailed, yet rolled off, so they are never harsh. If you like Diana Krall or Sarah McGlaughlin(sp)...they really shine.


The SVS SBS package is very neutral, detailed, very good imaging and matched with the sub deliver a phenomenal soundstage from top to bottom. A great sub makes the HT experience and the PB10 competes with many subs that cost $1000 or more. If you haven't experienced it, you don't know how much better the experience gets. The Bics and x-subs that get talked about here do a great job of opening the door. The PB10 is just...Wow (in reasonably sized rooms 

The Polks are great all rounders...it's not apple and oranges...the R50s are floorstanders and throw a deep and wide midrange, the tweets are detailed, but not as refined, the R150s match, the CSi25/CSR match...all in all, nearly everyone who's owned them loves them...until they want to upgrade to something far more expensive...then they have to listen to a lot of speakers that are better, but not that much better to justify the cost.


If you haven't guessed, I've rated them top to bottom. If I were piecing it together and had to choose between these sets (and had the money), I'd get the x-series speakers (I'm a music guy) and the SVS sub. If I needed to stay in your budget, I'd go with the SVS package and wonder what I was missing.


Since I'm me...I've gone through 6 or 7 subs...3 receiver brands...3 amps...and settled on vintage speakers that aren't touchable, but have very low WAF.


----------



## kentrl

Thanks.. I think im getting closer.. Last question.. What about the CSi3 everyone talks about.. Does it fit with the Polks R50s and 150's? Or is that to far off the R Series.


----------



## Jakeman02

The CSR and CSi3 both would match. Both use the same silk dome tweeter as the R50s and 150s, although the CSi3 is 1" compared to 3/4" for the CSR. The R50s and R150s use the 3/4" also. As far as matching both would work. The CSi3 is a little nicer build and has the angle built into it if you needed to tilt it and it's more expensive. If you can find them at the same price I'd probably go for it, otherwise I'd go with the CSR. As far as performance I'd say you'll see a minimal difference at best. The saving would be much better spent somewhere else like the SUB.


----------



## kentrl

Thanks!


----------



## Ron Temple

The CSi3 is not a match. I picked one up for chump change and used it as a center with the Rs. It's a much better speaker. The positives are that dialog becomes crystal clear. The negatives is that it's quite a bit brighter than the Rs, noticeable with multi-channel music and test tones, but really no biggie. Paired with the RTi line of Polk speakers the CSis are totally seamless. So with that caveat...if you can pick one up for a reasonable price, you can always upgrade to better Polks and keep it.


----------



## Blake9b

Can anyone comment as to if the Polk R50's are ever available in Black from Fry's? After deliberating for a few months following this thread, I would love to buy a set; however the cherry finish would not match well in my setup.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## blobula

I've looked as well, but have been unable to find anything. Looks like the cherry finish is the only thing left that they are selling. I went with a pair of Polk R300's instead, even though the R50's prolly sound better.


----------



## blobula

In terms of receivers would the HK AVR 330 still be better than the HK AVR 147 or 247?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In terms of receivers would the HK AVR 330 still be better than the HK AVR 147 or 247?



The 3xx platform is tweaked to provide slightly more current, has the A-bus for simultaneous Zone 2 operation and has a few more inputs. The 330 is a better platform, but will lack all HDMI capability and is older perhaps prone to breakdown. If you looking at the 3xx series, I think the 340 is the sweetspot...jeez a couple of posts up a guy scored one for $200.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the 340 is the sweetspot...jeez a couple of posts up a guy scored one for $200.













i got my H/K 235 for $260 and i thought it was a great deal at the time!


----------



## LostInSpace

Hi all,


I've read through this thread once, and I'm still playing with my options. There's so much good information here. I just ordered a refurbished Onkyo 604 (Black) from SecondAct for $259.99 shipped. I know it's a great price, I hope it works fine.


I can't link yet, I don't have five posts. Look it up and let me know if you pull the trigger on it, so we can compare experiences.


Thanks.


----------



## kentrl

Ok, so I had pretty much decided on the Polk R50's, CSR and R150's with the PB10-NSD for the sub. Here is my dilemma. I have recently come into contact with a guy locally that I met who is selling his stuff to upgrade. I went over and checked his stuff out which is not even a year old. He wants to sell his Polk RTi 10's and CSi 5 center for $800. Now I am willing to put more money in my budget for the sub and some rears but my concern is should I even do this since I bought a mid level receiver (HK 340)? And if so what should I do for the rears?


Too many decsions!!!










ROB


----------



## LostInSpace

Can someone please point to or post some good pictures of the cherry colored R50s? I've read a bunch of posts, here and elsewhere that ask about what they look like. I'm interested in them, but I need to see how they'll look next to my furniture.


Thanks.


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LostInSpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I've read through this thread once, and I'm still playing with my options. There's so much good information here. I just ordered a refurbished Onkyo 604 (Black) from SecondAct for $259.99 shipped. I know it's a great price, I hope it works fine.
> 
> 
> I can't link yet, I don't have five posts. Look it up and let me know if you pull the trigger on it, so we can compare experiences.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I'm kicking myself in the butt for not jumping on this. I guess it just wasn't meant to be.


LostInSpace:

If you look back a couple of pages, you will see my R50's next to my cherry wall unit. Personally, I like the cherry and wish I could get the R30's in cherry for the Fry's price.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kentrl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, so I had pretty much decided on the Polk R50's, CSR and R150's with the PB10-NSD for the sub. Here is my dilemma. I have recently come into contact with a guy locally that I met who is selling his stuff to upgrade. I went over and checked his stuff out which is not even a year old. He wants to sell his Polk RTi 10's and CSi 5 center for $800. Now I am willing to put more money in my budget for the sub and some rears but my concern is should I even do this since I bought a mid level receiver (HK 340)? And if so what should I do for the rears?
> 
> 
> Too many decsions!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROB



You've got yourself stuck on the horns of a dilemma. The RTis murdur the Rs. That's a fair price...not a steal...you could probably do as well or better off ebay. The 340 will drive them fine, but they really benefit from power...which is ok because the 340 has pre-outs and you can pickup a used amp later that can make them sing. For surrounds look for a used set of FXs, 4s, 6s or even earlier revs of the RT lines, 25,28,38 or 55s. Take your time and ejoy the journey...


----------



## LostInSpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm kicking myself in the butt for not jumping on this. I guess it just wasn't meant to be.
> 
> 
> LostInSpace:
> 
> If you look back a couple of pages, you will see my R50's next to my cherry wall unit. Personally, I like the cherry and wish I could get the R30's in cherry for the Fry's price.



Thanks Slenser. I looked at your pictures and also found a few more in the Polk thread in the speakers forum. They look nice, but won't quite match my furniture. I think I might get a pair anyway though. I see that you like pictures of people's setups and I'll try to post mine as soon as I'm done. Hey everbody: show your stuff!


About the receiver, I think it was a great deal, if it works with no problems.


----------



## Blake9b

LostInSpace - Could you post a few links to the photos you found of the Cherry R50s?


I had been set on the following setup:

Fronts: Polk R50s

Center: Polk CSi25

Rears: Polk R150s

Reciever: Onkyo 505

Sub: H100


now that I can't find the R50s in black I am considering the SVS route....


damn this forum and it's wealth of knowledge. now it takes me 6 months to make decisions on electronics purchases!


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> now that I can't find the R50s in black I am considering the SVS route....



the Bic is a great sub for the money, but entry level SVS (PB-10) is in another league entirely. if you can swing it, it will improve your HT experience like no other component. incredibly deep, clean, articulate bass for small to medium sized rooms that can even do the infrasonic stuff with authority.


i'm a believer in buying the best sub one can possibly afford for any budget HT. makes all the difference.


----------



## mstanley003

I can't find the R50s in black either and I'm not sure I want a speaker that big. Would it be a bad idea to do 4 R150s?


ONKYO TX-SR505S

Polk CS1

4Polk R150 - 2 Mounted Next to TV, 2 behind couch

Bic Acoustech H-100


Any suggestions instead of 4 R150s? I really don't want the speakers too big. Any thoughts on the RM101s? I prefer wall mounted but would do floor standing if they aren't too bad.


----------



## Movie Fan

I was planning to buy another HTIB to replace my Philips HTIB (MX5600D) that recently died until I found this thread. Although I have not had the time to read every post just yet I have been really learning a lot here. I have come up with a couple of questions that I need answered before I can narrow my decision on speakers. My family room seems to put some major limitations on my options and I could sure use some help. As a picture is worth a thousands words I have attached some pictures of my room.


Any advice is appreciated but my particular questions are as follows:


It seems to me that bookshelf speakers will be too large for my available space. Does anyone have suggestions for good sounding smaller type speakers that I can wall mount (fronts up by the ceiling)?


The shape of the room and the bookshelves on my back wall limit my mounting options. Does anyone have any opinions on dipole speakers (like http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=ATASR1.2 or http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2245 ) or where to put rear surrounds?


I don't have much room for a center channel below my PDP (the last one was short and fit the space). Any suggestions on a center channel that will fit or where to put a larger one (preferably without re-mounting my PDP)?


I really feel like an idiot as I spent considerable time buying furniture and mounting everything so it fit perfectly with my old system and didn't even consider that it might break and no standard replacement would fit










- Shawn


PS: How do you get the pictures to show up in the text of the message?


----------



## PWK2000

If you NEED 5.1 I would get this: http://hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html 


place the 2 fronts on each side of your tv and center on top of your tv stand.


For the 2 rears I would place them on top of the bookshelf facing the couch and aim down (might have to by some type of mounting bracket) or if possible mount them to the sides of each bookshelf.


another idea would be to move the couch to where the tv is and move the tv to where the couch is, and do a nice 3.1 system.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Yay flags is back has it been 60 days already


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MY ROOM IS MUCH LIKE YOURS AND THE 790 PUTS YOU IN THE ACTION IN ANY SITUATION.



please, this thread is about *alternatives* to HTIB's...take the 790 discussions to the dedicated "onkyo hts-790" thread.


thanks.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> If you NEED 5.1 I would get this: http://hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html



It looks like that system may fit the bill for me. How do these speakers sound? That is the most interesting wiring setup (fronts through the center) I have ever seen-does anyone else use that configuration?



> Quote:
> place the 2 fronts on each side of your tv and center on top of your tv stand.



I would probably just use my existing mounts for the front channels (up by the ceiling facing down at the couch-see the attached photos) to get better separation.



> Quote:
> For the 2 rears I would place them on top of the bookshelf facing the couch and aim down (might have to by some type of mounting bracket) or if possible mount them to the sides of each bookshelf.



I like the top facing down suggestion although I could just put a screw into the bookshelves (my wife prefers I didn't put holes in it though). These speakers are small enough that a bracket or small shelf might also work.


Could the rear center satelite be mounted on the ceiling pointed straight down?



> Quote:
> another idea would be to move the couch to where the tv is and move the tv to where the couch is, and do a nice 3.1 system.



This was my original consideration 2 years ago when I installed my system but is out of the question as the window places too much glare on the PDP for daytime viewing.



Has anyone tried the Mission Cinema m70 Surround System? http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229 


Thanks for all of the feedback...keep it coming.


- Shawn


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It looks like that system may fit the bill for me. How do these speakers sound? That is the most interesting wiring setup (fronts through the center) I have ever seen-does anyone else use that configuration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would probably just use my existing mounts for the front channels (up by the ceiling facing down at the couch) to get better separation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the top facing down suggestion although I could just put a screw into the bookshelves (my wife prefers I didn't put holes in it though). These speakers are small enough that a bracket or small shelf might also work.
> 
> 
> Could the rear center satelite be mounted on the ceiling pointed straight down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my original consideration 2 years ago when I installed my system but is out of the question as the window places too much glare on the PDP for daytime viewing.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the Mission Cinema m70 Surround System? http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the feedback...keep it coming.
> 
> 
> - Shawn



The 790 can be used as a 5.1 Onkyo has a good reputation and best of all I have this system and can tell you from experience that it is an excellent system.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 790 can be used as a 5.1 Onkyo has a good reputation and best of all I have this system and can tell you from experience that it is an excellent system.



I'm just speechless! It's like a mosquito buzzing around my ears!


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> tulpa is right on the money concerning the 604. a very nice receiver with several advantages over the 504, but a bit out of range for those on a budget. i would consider one if i had about $1200 - $1500 to spend on a 5.1 setup, or if i was going to start with 2.1 system.
> 
> 
> i usually recommend people spend about 15 - 20% of their total budget on the receiver. the $$ is better spent on good speakers/sub, as that is where the advantages of component systems will really become evident.



T







HE 790 PACKAGE IS A GREAT DEAL FOR THE PRICE.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Yes flags the 790 is a great package for J6P. Some of us desire more for our dollar then others. Some of us would even rather spend more money on less equipment to have better quality sound. So please run to your local 7-11 pick you up a half rack of your favorite beer, pound it down, and go running around your neighborhood door to door telling everyone you meet how great the 790 is. I am sure they will care as much as we do.


----------



## Movie Fan

Thanks for the input flags - I heard it the first time and I heard it this time and all the other times in between. So, you can now hold your tongue and stop interfering with my research!


I found some other speakers that might fit this application.


1) HTD flat panel - I could mount these beside the PDP for fronts (the center would require me to raise the PDP an inch or so) with HTD Middy Compacts for rear.


2) HTD flat panel center with HTD Middys for front (on my existing mounts up there by the ceiling) and rear (on the bookcase)


And what about the HTD Level 2 & 3 subs in comparison to the HSU?


Has anyone had experience with these speakers?


- Shawn


----------



## Sig-Sauer

Smaller drivers generaly lack mid range. Most higher rated speakers are 5.25" or 6.5". But that size generaly wont fit (visualy) mounted next to a flat panel tv. Never heard those though so i cant say what they will sound like. Sub seems a little low on power but again never heard one. Perhaps you should ask in the speaker section to see if anyone has experience with them. If you choose to go with a smaller speakers like that, i think if you went with a sub that is known for a more musical sound (like Velodine) that you could run with a higher crossover setting to help fill in.


On a side note i heard THE 790 PACKAGE IS A GREAT DEAL FOR THE PRICE. and


The 790 can be used as a 5.1 Onkyo has a good reputation and best of all I have this system and can tell you from experience that it is an excellent system.


just incase you missed it ROFL I wonder if he has a "I love Onkyo" bumpersticker on his car.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sig-Sauer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes flags the 790 is a great package for J6P. Some of us desire more for our dollar then others. Some of us would even rather spend more money on less equipment to have better quality sound. So please run to your local 7-11 pick you up a half rack of your favorite beer, pound it down, and go running around your neighborhood door to door telling everyone you meet how great the 790 is. I am sure they will care as much as we do.



I OWN THREE 7-11'S AND WILL FOLLOW YOUR INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER.


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dfwfiveoh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I must admit that for a long time now I found this G-star guy very annoying because all I really wanted was a HTIB and I didn't really want to hear him telling everybody on the HTIB forum everything that was wrong with it. I often wondered why he lurked here - just waiting for someone to post their desired system so that he could shoot the intended purchase down and tear their hopes to pieces. Everyday overly excited home theater newbies would eagerly post that they had Found this or that and it's cheap and great for the price and G-star would inevitably crush their hopes by saying something to the effect of it's cheap because it's crap and you won't like it! However, over time I started to think about what he was saying and also went to the local CC to hear the Onkyo HT790 (that I intended to purchase) and it did indeed sound muddy and the sub seemed to be under powered. I really like clear speakers and good bass, so that made me start thinking.
> 
> 
> What occurred to me was that I didn't need to get the Onkyo system or any system all at once (which is what G-star evangelizes) and could spend a little more than my $500 budget if I was just patient and wanted to wait a little, or spread my purchases out. (I'm 39, so having everything now is not a big deal for me anymore - learn that principle young ones - some things are worth waiting for!). This idea directly supports what G-star and others have said about starting with a 2.0, 2.1 or 3.1 and moving from there. So here's what I did...
> 
> 
> I bought an Onkyo TX SR674 from Abt electronics for 499.00 shipped and let it sit in my basement for a while until I had some more money to get the rest of the stuff I wanted. Over time, I was able to pick up two pairs of BIC America DV62si Bookshelf Speakers (6 1/2 woofers & 0.75-inch poly dome tweeter) for $109.88 for each pair and a BIC America DV-62CLRS (dual 6 1/2 woofers & 0.75-inch poly dome tweeter) for $93.15. I heard a lot of bad reviews and some good reviews about these 5 speakers and in the end I went with them remembering that reviews - even those of so called professionals - are subjective at best. How could these people possibly know what sounds good to me? Having just received them, I'm glad I bought what I wanted because I like the way these matched components sound. And my center speaker is full and voices are real and clear - which is why I chose a larger center mid woofers.
> 
> 
> I ended up having some wiggle room in the budget for a Hsu STF-2 Subwoofer that I bought from Hsu Research for 319.00, but originally was going to go with the BIC H100. I've also heard the AV123 X-sub ($199) and considered the Elemental Designs A2 - 300 Subwoofer for $350.00. But participants on the Elemental Designs forum on AVS state that wait times are up to 3 months for point of order.
> 
> 
> Now, having said all of that, please remember - you can by 2 or 3 speakers and a sub first or buy 3 or 5 speakers and then a sub later or what ever you want to do. It's all up to you and how you want to roll with it. But, do buy the best system you can afford and if you can suffer though it - take your time buying that pieces you want because I promise that patience can and will pay off. Utilize the information many of these guys give as potential guidelines and not as gospel - some of the equipment listed in the original start of the thread I wouldn't ever buy or even consider - but that does not mean that it wouldn't work well for you. A whole lot of people consider the BIC America speakers too bright, but I like them and they sound way better than the HT790 speakers. So I'm ahead.
> 
> 
> G-star, having read your experience with a HTIB listed above - it now all makes sense to me. Initially I was also annoyed with this thread being in the HTIB area, but I can't argue with all the others who are glad it's here. I wanted HTIB because I was lazy and didn't want to do the research, but some may need the research you've done and the advice you give to get them going because they are new to this arena. I now feel that it's cool that this thread is around so that those that do need guidance can get it. And also good job with your ferverent almost evangelistic attention to the pitfalls of HTIB and the whole "the British are coming - The end is near" stereo thing. You basically made me re-think buying the Onkyo HT790 - which I almost pulled the trigger on in November when my wife and I were standing in a Circuit City home stereo area looking at the system and its low price.
> 
> 
> For that I'm thankful to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doug



If calling others lazy builds up your self esteem then I can only say that my 790 is a much better value than your purchase.


----------



## Kysersose

Flags has been removed as a member here. He has ignored far too many warning and returns to form immediately following suspension.


Carry on,


Kyser


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Flags has been removed as a member here. He has ignored far too many warning and returns to form immediately following suspension.
> 
> 
> Carry on,
> 
> 
> Kyser



Thank you.


----------



## Blake9b

I picked up an Onkyo SR505B over the weekend; though I am torn with speaker choices.


I would prefer to go the Polk route due to price/performance but can't seem to locate any further photos to depict the tone of the Cherry R50's. My audio rack is silver in color, so it would probably mismatch anway...which leads me to the Athena's...but those AV123 X'series are absolutely gorgeous.


I would like to build the system slowly as I am over my initial budget...so the AV123's are very appealing....


All I needed was a new receiver, now thanks to G-Star I am looking at slowly replacing my entire system, rack included...


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Flags has been removed as a member here. He has ignored far too many warning and returns to form immediately following suspension.
> 
> 
> Carry on,
> 
> 
> Kyser



This makes me sad. Is there any way that the only section he can post on is the 790 thread? Flags makes me laugh.

-1


----------



## Splicer010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input flags - I heard it the first time and I heard it this time and all the other times in between. So, you can now hold your tongue and stop interfering with my research!
> 
> 
> 
> - Shawn



2 questions...

1] Why don't you just buy another receiver and use the same speakers you already have???

2] Do you own or rent? If you own just buy some Dayton in wall speakers that sound fantastic!


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Splicer010* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2 questions...
> 
> 1] Why don't you just buy another receiver and use the same speakers you already have???
> 
> 2] Do you own or rent? If you own just buy some Dayton in wall speakers that sound fantastic!



Excellent suggestions that I have considered already but won't work for the following reasons.


1) Philips kept my system when I sent it in for repair. Lets just say they made it worth my while to not ask for it back. But now I have nothing and am starting from the ground up. The speakers were atypical (dual passive subs) so they wouldn't have worked with another system anyway.


2) I own but the PDP is mounted on an outside wall which is a big NO-NO for in wall anything. Besides if you take a look at my pictures posted above you will see that I do not have the space on the right side of the PDP to put anything that is not really narrow (5" or less).


- Shawn


----------



## Blake9b

Has anyone heard both the R50's and the R300's that could comment?


----------



## blobula

I just received my Polk Audio R300 speakers today. If anyone is interested I took some pictures of unboxing them.


Polk Audio R300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blobula...7600735712044/ 


Polk Audio R150
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blobula...7600216088228/ 


Unfortunately I don't have a receiver yet so I haven't heard them. There's so many options to choose from when it comes to receivers. Seems like the Harmon Kardmon receivers are highly recommended on this thread for the Polks.


----------



## jluzbet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard both the R50's and the R300's that could comment?



I will like to know as well.

I got the r50 for the fronts and cs1 for the center but I am not convinced on the 150 for the surrounds, any one care to share their experience?


----------



## msummers80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the feedback...keep it coming.
> 
> 
> - Shawn



Have you settled on anything yet, for instance receiver? Also, there are some other smaller wall mountable speaker packages out there. I've been keeping my eyes on things like the Athena Micra system, Klipsch Quintet system (doesn't come with a sub), that HSU already linked, and depending on your budget an Infinity TSS-750 or TSS-1100 (I think they released 800 and 1200 now) might be decent. I have similar issues to you caused by different but equally annoying architectural designs. Don't architects take HT into account when designing houses?










Or you could consider a bigger speaker setup and find a way to build some custom shelves to hold them out from the wall (something I haven't found practical for myself, yet







).


Edit: another pricey option is the definitive procinema series.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I'm looking to buy a 5.1 system (speakers only) with the following requirements:
> 
> 
> $1000 budget
> 
> I want tower speakers for L/R for better bass in 2 channel music listening.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at Athena F2.2 C1.2 & R1.2 with an A2-300 from eD (Sub got high marks from Craigsub btw, exceptional for a $350 sub) or doing a 5.1 system all from eD - A6 6T6 (fronts) A6 5T5 (center) & A3 5TC (rears).
> 
> 
> I'm heavily leaning towards all eD at this point. 15% off with their package builder, free shipping.
> 
> 
> I am open to any other suggestions.
> 
> 
> Will be paired with an Onkyo 605 receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Well, I made the plunge and purchased the Elemental Designs 5.1 system above along with 31" rear speaker stands and 16" center channel stand.


I will be pairing these with the soon to be released TX-SR875 Onkyo receiver, until then an ancient Pioneer VX-D411.



I received my sub this weekend and have had the rest for about a week. My Pio receiver's digital in's dont seem to work anymore so I cant yet comment on any DD or DTS 5.1 material until my Onkyo receiver arrives. Tested the towers with several cd's and like their sound quite well. Imaging is good, has a warm sound to my untrained ear even though my receiver doesn't drive them all that well. I'm very impressed with the sub. Clean crisp deep bass crossed at 55-60 in 2.1 mode for music. Build quality on all the products is fantastic. I'm quite pleased with my purchase thus far. eD's HT products (IMHO) are an extremely good value for their price point.


I know most here in this thread aren't looking to spend what I did but I wanted to give my impressions to this point.


----------



## rrwantr

I didn't see this thread before I posted in the other forum as I wasn't looking for a HTIB so I hadn't viewed this forum....


What's the current recommendation for my situation?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873178 


Thanks for the help!


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will be pairing these with the soon to be released TX-SR875 Onkyo receiver....



Why did you decide to buy a $1600 receiver instead of a $500?


- Shawn


----------



## Elvis Is Alive

Honestly, I originally was going to purchase the Onkyo 605 but after much debating, I chose the 875. Mainly due to its Reon video processor for upscaling all my video sources to my display's native 1080p resolution for superior picture quality. It can be had for several hundred off the msrp, btw


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honestly, I originally was going to purchase the Onkyo 605 but after much debating, I chose the 875. Mainly due to its Reon video processor for upscaling all my video sources to my display's native 1080p resolution for superior picture quality. It can be had for several hundred off the msrp, btw



Elvis,


Get us some pics of the eD speakers...looking at the prices and specs these could be the real deal.


----------



## msummers80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rrwantr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't see this thread before I posted in the other forum as I wasn't looking for a HTIB so I hadn't viewed this forum....
> 
> 
> What's the current recommendation for my situation?
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873178
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help!



What are you looking for in speakers? Something small and wall mountable in a 5.0 or 5.1 package? Do you want bookshelf size speakers? Are you still determined to get a reciever with HDMI switching, so that your budget would be $400-$500 for speakers?


----------



## rrwantr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *msummers80* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are you looking for in speakers? Something small and wall mountable in a 5.0 or 5.1 package? Do you want bookshelf size speakers? Are you still determined to get a reciever with HDMI switching, so that your budget would be $400-$500 for speakers?



Looking for a 5.1 system. Bookshelf are fine...even small towers would be ok for mains. Bookshelf for rears. If bookshelf they'll be on stands.

Not set on the 604 with the HDMI switching...


I'd like

3 X AV123 X-CS' for the front and center

2 s AV124 XLS for the rear

____________________________ 800 shipped

Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350)

Receiver around $200 ( If I didn't do the HDMI switching like the 604 or 5)


This would total about $1400.... Yikes...



OR


A package from Elemental Designs?

A6 5T5 MTM pair for front

A6 5T5 MTM for center

A3 5TC pair for rear

A2-300 Sub


This would total $700

Receiver $200

$900 (which is about $100 more than I was thinking of budgeting)


Soooo... would the step up to the AVs be worth large increase in $$$?


Heck I could even go to their A6 6T6 for the mains and be at $1150....


----------



## Jakeman02

I haven't found much feedback on ED's speakers yet, at the price I'm sure we'll start to find more. I'd suggest first buying a pair of each and comparing them. I'm sure they both give a 30 day return policy, I know AV123 does and I haven't checked but I'm sure ED does also.


Then you personally would know for sure and feel satisfied you made the right decision based on your reviews not reading someone elses. At worst you're out return shipping on one pair. A small price to pay for a 30 day in home demo comparison.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't found much feedback on ED's speakers yet, at the price I'm sure we'll start to find more. I'd suggest first buying a pair of each and comparing them. I'm sure they both give a 30 day return policy, I know AV123 does and I haven't checked but I'm sure ED does also.
> 
> 
> Then you personally would know for sure and feel satisfied you made the right decision based on your reviews not reading someone elses. At worst you're out return shipping on one pair. A small price to pay for a 30 day in home demo comparison.



craigsub did a mini review on either the MTMs or the books on his bookshelf thread when he did the A2-300. Haven't seen it, but I'm pretty sure he gave it 5's for value. Do a search on the Speakers forum...craigsub threads...I'm sure you'll find it.


My gut feeling tells me they are in the entry level Polk, JBL, Athena range, maybe better, and a notch behind the x-series, Ascends, etc...but, they make their own tweeters, drivers and enclosures and could be surprisingly good. You'll have to compare for yourself to see.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> craigsub did a mini review on either the MTMs or the books on his bookshelf thread when he did the A2-300. Haven't seen it, but I'm pretty sure he gave it 5's for value. Do a search on the Speakers forum...craigsub threads...I'm sure you'll find it.
> 
> 
> My gut feeling tells me they are in the entry level Polk, JBL, Athena range, maybe better, and a notch behind the x-series, Ascends, etc...but, they make their own tweeters, drivers and enclosures and could be surprisingly good. You'll have to compare for yourself to see.



I don't want to compare, I love my Athenas. I was responding to rrwantr's post, I should have copied it. Anyway thanks for the info on the craigsub review. I read the A2-300 but didn't know he reviewed the speakers also. Should be some interesting reading.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rrwantr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking for a 5.1 system. Bookshelf are fine...even small towers would be ok for mains. Bookshelf for rears. If bookshelf they'll be on stands.
> 
> Not set on the 604 with the HDMI switching...
> 
> 
> I'd like
> 
> 3 X AV123 X-CS' for the front and center
> 
> 2 s AV124 XLS for the rear
> 
> ____________________________ 800 shipped
> 
> Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350)
> 
> Receiver around $200 ( If I didn't do the HDMI switching like the 604 or 5)
> 
> 
> This would total about $1400.... Yikes...
> 
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> A package from Elemental Designs?
> 
> A6 5T5 MTM pair for front
> 
> A6 5T5 MTM for center
> 
> A3 5TC pair for rear
> 
> A2-300 Sub
> 
> 
> This would total $700
> 
> Receiver $200
> 
> $900 (which is about $100 more than I was thinking of budgeting)
> 
> 
> Soooo... would the step up to the AVs be worth large increase in $$$?
> 
> 
> Heck I could even go to their A6 6T6 for the mains and be at $1150....



Make sure to use the package builder on their website to get the 15% discount. My total (including 31" rear stands and 16" center channel stand plus $14 shipping for stands) for the A6 6T6 pair MTM center and bookshelf rears was $1024.00 Without the stands, I think it would have been $974


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Elvis,
> 
> 
> Get us some pics of the eD speakers...looking at the prices and specs these could be the real deal.



I'll get some pics up tomorrow night, my wife has our digital camera at her workplace.


----------



## rrwantr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure to use the package builder on their website to get the 15% discount. My total (including 31" rear stands and 16" center channel stand plus $14 shipping for stands) for the A6 6T6 pair MTM center and bookshelf rears was $1024.00 Without the stands, I think it would have been $974



Yep. That's how I got the $700..or $692 to be exact. =) Thanks for the headsup though. How do you like yours?


----------



## PeterWy

I have a challenge for you alternative-to-HTIB pros on here:


I live fulltime in a new motorhome. I just bought a new 32" Panasonic TC-32LX70 Viesa LCD for the bedroom (we watch most DVDs in bed), and I'm installing it in a couple of weeks. Now I need to supplement it.


Obviously, the bedroom is small....8'6" X 11'0" My first thought was HTIB for the micro size available, and the connection simplicity. Something like the $300 Samsung HT-X200, or else buying a 5.1 HTIB and dumping the rear speakers.


A 2.0 or 2.1 system would be fine, if the sub in a 2.1 is small. Think MICRO size! I could either place the front speakers on a countertop, or wall mount them...but again...TINY!


As for the head unit...I prefer HDMI to connect to the TV. Is there a standalone receiver with a built-in DVD player and HDMI out that surpasses those included in a HTIB system?


I could live with a separate receiver/DVD player if I had to, but again...space limitations are a huge concern.


Did I mention I'd like to keep the cost in the $300 range??


Any ideas??


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't want to compare, I love my Athenas. I was responding to rrwantr's post, I should have copied it. Anyway thanks for the info on the craigsub review. I read the A2-300 but didn't know he reviewed the speakers also. Should be some interesting reading.



I was doing the same thing...quoting you, but answering the other guy







.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterWy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention I'd like to keep the cost in the $300 range??
> 
> 
> Any ideas??



Peter,


You are best to look at a HTIB for what you want







. Wal-Mart







can get you a Philips or RCA system for $200. Heck, I have a 2.1 logitec speaker system plugged into my iMac I paid $30 for that would sound good in a space that small.


- Shawn


----------



## LostInSpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Peter,
> 
> 
> You are best to look at a HTIB for what you want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Wal-Mart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can get you a Philips or RCA system for $200. Heck, I have a 2.1 logitec speaker system plugged into my iMac I paid $30 for that would sound good in a space that small.
> 
> 
> - Shawn



Have you looked into the Onkyo HT-790?







(In memory of former member, Flags).


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rrwantr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep. That's how I got the $700..or $692 to be exact. =) Thanks for the headsup though. How do you like yours?



So far, I'm extremely pleased. I can only put the towers and sub to good use as of yet. My old receiver's digital ins aren't working anymore so I've mainly been using 2.1 setup for analog stereo. I've played with some prologic stuff to listen to my system in 5.1 but my receiver has a hard enough time with 2 channels let alone five.


I really like the tweeters in the towers. I've always preferred silk dome over titanium etc. Midrange sounds very good to me with the 3 6.5" drivers in the towers. Running a bass testing cd, the towers have very good response down to around 50 hrz in room for me. Still decent at 40hrz but roll off very quickly after that. Very impressive for their price. Sub is my favorite piece so far. Shakes the room quite well. I have it corner loaded and haven't played around with placement yet. I'm not going to do any calibration until my new receiver arrives.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LostInSpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you looked into the Onkyo HT-790?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (In memory of former member, Flags).



Unfortunately the 790 won't fit the bill for him as it doesn't come with a DVD player for $300.


- Shawn


----------



## couchrose

I just got a Onkyo 605 reciever (because I wanted the HDMI output), and want to get a 7.1 speaker system to go along with it. I really don't know much about sound or how to pair recievers and speakers. I've found the Onkyo HT540 for about 230 bucks plus shipping. Does this seem like an OK system?The main purpose of this system will be to watch an occasional movie (Once a month maximum). Or is there another combination of speakers that would do the same job for cheaper? Any ideas or suggestions?


----------



## blobula

You could get 6 Polk R150's for arund $150 + shipping and then add a Polk CSR for about $90. Judging from what others have said this would blow away an HTIB. I have the Polk R150's, but I'm waiting on a receiver, so I haven't heard them yet.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Elvis,
> 
> 
> Get us some pics of the eD speakers...looking at the prices and specs these could be the real deal.



Here ya go. Sorry about the quality, camera not the best.


----------



## Movie Fan

I have pretty much settled on the HSU Performance-2 speaker system and I am now trying to decide on a receiver. As I really am not up to speed on all of the new technology I am pretty much lost when trying to compare specs for the different AVRs. I began looking at the Onkyo TX-SR504 as suggested by the OP but now the 2007 models are out. I think that the main improvement in the 505 over the 504 is the automatic calibration feature. This feature alone is probably worth the extra $70 to me as I don't see myself buying a meter and doing this manually. Then I started looking at the 605 for a couple hundred more and started to wonder if there would be something in it worth the extra money.


Before my HTIB died I was happily viewing standard DVDs on my Samsung 42" ED Plasma. In the future I might consider a HD DVD player and HDTV but not in the next couple of years unless the PDP were to die. Is there really anything in the models above the Onkyo TX-SR505 that I would really be missing if I didn't get it?


- Shawn


----------



## rrwantr

Those pics are making it hard not to pick up the EDs...


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have pretty much settled on the HSU Performance-2 speaker system and I am now trying to decide on a receiver. As I really am not up to speed on all of the new technology I am pretty much lost when trying to compare specs for the different AVRs. I began looking at the Onkyo TX-SR504 as suggested by the OP but now the 2007 models are out. I think that the main improvement in the 505 over the 504 is the automatic calibration feature. This feature alone is probably worth the extra $70 to me as I don't see myself buying a meter and doing this manually. Then I started looking at the 605 for a couple hundred more and started to wonder if there would be something in it worth the extra money.
> 
> 
> Before my HTIB died I was happily viewing standard DVDs on my Samsung 42" ED Plasma. In the future I might consider a HD DVD player and HDTV but not in the next couple of years unless the PDP were to die. Is there really anything in the models above the Onkyo TX-SR505 that I would really be missing if I didn't get it?
> 
> 
> - Shawn



I'm in the exact same dilema. I had originally settled on the 504, but then I saw the 505 for a little more which includes a few extra features that sound nice. Then the 605 is just a little more and not out of reach, plus might be better in the long run in case equipment is upgraded. I look forward to hearing what people have to say.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there really anything in the models above the Onkyo TX-SR505 that I would really be missing if I didn't get it?



i'm not an expert on the new onkyo receivers, but i believe the 605 adds a lot of new features over the 505, like more power, advanced audio codec processing, and HDMI connectivity/upconversion. these features are reflected in its price, though i think it is still one of the best receiver values out there. the 805 is a serious piece of equipment, and is out of reach for most of us here in the budget world....though i'm sure it is one helluva a receiver.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *couchrose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've found the Onkyo HT540 for about 230 bucks plus shipping. Does this seem like an OK system?



these are onkyo HTIB speakers, which i think most people here would agree are what you're trying to avoid by going the component route. take a look at the entry level polks and perhaps a velodyne VX-10 sub to compete with those prices while providing a better overall level of sound quality.


----------



## LostInSpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have pretty much settled on the HSU Performance-2 speaker system and I am now trying to decide on a receiver. As I really am not up to speed on all of the new technology I am pretty much lost when trying to compare specs for the different AVRs. I began looking at the Onkyo TX-SR504 as suggested by the OP but now the 2007 models are out. I think that the main improvement in the 505 over the 504 is the automatic calibration feature. This feature alone is probably worth the extra $70 to me as I don't see myself buying a meter and doing this manually. Then I started looking at the 605 for a couple hundred more and started to wonder if there would be something in it worth the extra money.
> 
> 
> Before my HTIB died I was happily viewing standard DVDs on my Samsung 42" ED Plasma. In the future I might consider a HD DVD player and HDTV but not in the next couple of years unless the PDP were to die. Is there really anything in the models above the Onkyo TX-SR505 that I would really be missing if I didn't get it?
> 
> 
> - Shawn



Cool, I'm thinking about ordering the HSU performance2 package myself! Mostly due to the WAF and the toddler running around (knocking down speaker stands and such) and the good reviews for the system. I just got my wall unit in yesterday and I think everything is going to fit ok. How did you come to decide on the HSU set?


I ordered and received the Onkyo TX-604 receiver refurbished. I haven't tried it out yet, but I think I should've gotten the 605 for the extra HDMI functionality. I still need to read a bit more about the differences, but I may end up selling the 604 after that spontaneous purchase.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LostInSpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool, I'm thinking about ordering the HSU performance2 package myself! Mostly due to the WAF and the toddler running around (knocking down speaker stands and such) and the good reviews for the system. I just got my wall unit in yesterday and I think everything is going to fit ok. How did you come to decide on the HSU set?



My installation location seriously limits what speakers will fit. The HSU Ventriloquist V-12 seems to be the only set in the small form factor that sound decent according to quite a few reviews. I too have 3 little ones under 5 YO so I need to keep them out of reach as well. My biggest dillema is where to put that huge (very deep) center channel.


- Shawn


----------



## RaveD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *couchrose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got a Onkyo 605 reciever (because I wanted the HDMI output), and want to get a 7.1 speaker system to go along with it. I really don't know much about sound or how to pair recievers and speakers. I've found the Onkyo HT540 for about 230 bucks plus shipping. Does this seem like an OK system?The main purpose of this system will be to watch an occasional movie (Once a month maximum). Or is there another combination of speakers that would do the same job for cheaper? Any ideas or suggestions?



Seems odd that you would get such a high quality receiver and then skimp so much on the speakers.


If you're really looking for budget, and you have a relatively small room, give the Athena Micra6 package a look. I just installed them with an Onkyo 504. Surprisingly good sound for such a low price.


----------



## couchrose




> Quote:
> Seems odd that you would get such a high quality receiver and then skimp so much on the speakers



Yea, I guess it does, but I got the reciever because I wanted to be able to put everything out on an HDMI. We're putting a flat panel LCD up on the wall and my parents want all the components (DVD player, satillite box, computer, VCR) in the back of the room out of sight. It seemed cheaper to get 1 HDMI wire, and this reciever rather than get a bunch of really long wires (I got a pretty good deal on the reciever). We never listen to music and we rarely watch TV. My parents areis pretty much oblivious to sound quality; and I'm a full time student, so I watch maybe 1 movie a month (and its usually a chick flick). Since we wouldn't really use excellent speakers the way they're meant to be used, I figured a cheaper system might make more sense.


----------



## MemoryInAGarden

That eD package looks like it may be the real deal for those who wants the convenience of getting everything in a nice package, but want something better than a HTIB.


----------



## LostInSpace

I want to order cables for the HT setup I'm building. I'm looking at Monoprice, as recommended on here a lot. I see different gauge cables for both HDMI and component. That's all I've looked at so far. Do I have to worry about the gauge or should I just get what's cheapest.


I didn't know where else to post, or where to get advice on cables. Can someone point me in the right direction and/or provide some cable tips?


Thank you.


Oh, yeah, and I need to buy a nice surge suppressor for all this expensive new gear too! Any recommendations?


Thanks again.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive

Well, I tend to go overkill sometimes. I'm running the 12 gauge oxygen free wire from Monoprice with their screw-type banana plugs. It really depends how long your runs of wire are for gauge size, but Monoprice has such good prices - 12 gauge 100ft for $26.03 was too good to pass up. In general, the longer your wire runs are, the lower gauge (thicker wire) you want.

http://brickwall.com/index.htm 


I use a brickwall surge supressor. I have the standard 8 outlet (2 always on, 6 switched) and can highly recommend it. MOV surge pads are worthless, a good surge supressor is worth every penny, IMO.


----------



## LostInSpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I tend to go overkill sometimes. I'm running the 12 gauge oxygen free wire from Monoprice with their screw-type banana plugs. It really depends how long your runs of wire are for gauge size, but Monoprice has such good prices - 12 gauge 100ft for $26.03 was too good to pass up. In general, the longer your wire runs are, the lower gauge (thicker wire) you want.
> 
> http://brickwall.com/index.htm
> 
> 
> I use a brickwall surge supressor. I have the standard 8 outlet (2 always on, 6 switched) and can highly recommend it. MOV surge pads are worthless, a good surge supressor is worth every penny, IMO.



I've already run some 12 gauge wire for surrounds. But I noticed that even the HDMI and component cables at monoprice are available in different gauges. That's the ones I'm really asking about. Thanks for the surge protection recommendation.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LostInSpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've already run some 12 gauge wire for surrounds. But I noticed that even the HDMI and component cables at monoprice are available in different gauges. That's the ones I'm really asking about. Thanks for the surge protection recommendation.



No problem. Theoretically, a digital signal is a digital signal so gauge shouldn't matter for HDMI. Component is analog so wire gauge can make a difference over distances. Generally though, component cable lengths tend to be short so how much difference you can tell in signal quality should be minimal if any. Shielding is probably the most important thing with analog cables.


----------



## Movie Fan

I think I am going to buy the Onkyo TX-SR605 today. I found it online for $399.99 and free shipping. I can also get 3% cash back with ebates.com. What I particularly like about this model is that I will be able to plug my VCR and DVD into it and it will upconvert so only a HDMI (or component) cable goes to the TV. This will make it easier to hide the cables on the wall (just HDMI and power cord). The Faroudja DCDi should make the Standard definition signals look a little nicer too (since that is all I watch this is a good thing). I like the onboard EQ and fully independent crossovers sounds like it might come in handy setting up the speakers. The option to send a separate signal to a second room looks like something I might take advantage of as well in the near future.


- Shawn


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I am going to buy the Onkyo TX-SR605 today. I found it online for $399.99 and free shipping. I can also get 3% cash back with ebates.com. What I particularly like about this model is that I will be able to plug my VCR and DVD into it and it will upconvert so only a HDMI (or component) cable goes to the TV. This will make it easier to hide the cables on the wall (just HDMI and power cord). The Faroudja DCDi should make the Standard definition signals look a little nicer too (since that is all I watch this is a good thing). I like the onboard EQ and fully independent crossovers sounds like it might come in handy setting up the speakers. The option to send a separate signal to a second room looks like something I might take advantage of as well in the near future.
> 
> 
> - Shawn



Extremely good bang for the buck receiver. Only real drawback to the 605, IMO, is that it down converts 1080i component signals to 720p via HDMI out. A limitation of the Faroudja chip.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Extremely good bang for the buck receiver. Only real drawback to the 605, IMO, is that it down converts 1080i component signals to 720p via HDMI out. A limitation of the Faroudja chip.



So IOW I won't be running into this problem as my DVD/VCR merely outputs progressive scan (480p). So in considering future purchases I should avoid components that output 1081i via component but those with HDMI output should be fine?










- Shawn


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So IOW I won't be running into this problem as my DVD/VCR merely outputs progressive scan (480p). So in considering future purchases I should avoid components that output 1081i via component but those with HDMI output should be fine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Shawn



The 605 can transcode any analog imput signal (composite, s-video, component) to HDMI out to the TV. Nice if you want to only run one connector to your display. However, as I mentioned earlier any incoming 1080i signal sent to the 605 via component will be downconverted to 720p when HDMI is sent to the display. If you want to avoid this, you can send component out to the display from the 605 or connect directly to the display and connect audio to the 605 only. Any HDMI signal is passed thru without any changes to its resolution. So 480p in = 480p out. The 605 owners thread goes in depth regarding this, check there or send me a PM so we don't go off topic anymore.


----------



## HokieFB

I am looking for a quality center match for these bookshelves.

Please offer your best suggestions.


----------



## HokieFB

Can you mount the Athena AS-B1.2 to a wall?

Any mounting suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HokieFB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you mount the Athena AS-B1.2 to a wall?
> 
> Any mounting suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



The B1.2s are rear ported and need room behind them. Stands are optimal. If it's a must you could build a shelf on the wall to support them but make the support deep enough for the speaker to set on and still have clearance behind it.


----------



## Gaytoray

I'm chewing on the Polks but how do you match the speakers? By their specs? or Freq? or Max Output???


- Onkyo SR504

- R50s on front (maybe on rear too)

- R150s on rear (if not R50s)

- CSR Center speaker?

- Subwoofer


----------



## msummers80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gaytoray* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm chewing on the Polks but how do you match the speakers? By their specs? or Freq? or Max Output???
> 
> 
> - Onkyo SR504
> 
> - R50s on front (maybe on rear too)
> 
> - R150s on rear (if not R50s)
> 
> - CSR Center speaker?
> 
> - Subwoofer



It is easy to match speakers by the same manufacturer, just get the speakers from the same series. The ones you listed are all matched, and any decent sub would go with them. You might look in the sub forum to find something that offers more bang for your buck than the polk offering (I haven't heard it, but from what I read it isn't that great in the price range). A sub doesn't need to be matched. As far as general ideas about matching different speakers go, you could do a search or ask a question concerning "timbre matching." There are a couple paragraphs in this article (towards the middle) on the subject: http://svconline.com/mag/avinstall_full_coverage/


----------



## msummers80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HokieFB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am looking for a quality center match for these bookshelves.
> 
> Please offer your best suggestions.



How about the CRC or CRC7 also from boston acoustics (which was made to go with those speakers): http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_...product_id=187


----------



## afrogt

I've got one of those Boston CRC's that I would unload for cheap.


----------



## Stuffed

I've been looking all over these forums and webpages, but I'm still having trouble finding an answer. I've pieced together a 5.0 system right now, and the reciever and center are on their way. What I don't have though, and won't for a month or two is a subwoofer. I have a limited amount of time to ask for a replacement on the reciever so I still need to test the output of the sub channel. Is there any way I can do this with a voltage meter or a computer?


My brother's sub _may_ have a digital coax connection, so that may be my test sub, but if I can just hook it up to my PC and run a quick test that would save all kinds of trouble. For reference I'm getting


Yamaha rx-v661

4 polk r150's

1 polk cs1

(and I'm considering an eD A2-250)


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stuffed* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been looking all over these forums and webpages, but I'm still having trouble finding an answer. I've pieced together a 5.0 system right now, and the reciever and center are on their way. What I don't have though, and won't for a month or two is a subwoofer. I have a limited amount of time to ask for a replacement on the reciever so I still need to test the output of the sub channel. Is there any way I can do this with a voltage meter or a computer?
> 
> 
> My brother's sub _may_ have a digital coax connection, so that may be my test sub, but if I can just hook it up to my PC and run a quick test that would save all kinds of trouble. For reference I'm getting
> 
> 
> Yamaha rx-v661
> 
> 4 polk r150's
> 
> 1 polk cs1
> 
> (and I'm considering an eD A2-250)



interesting question....whatever voltage coming out of the sub pre-out is going to be low, so you'd need a sensitive meter and a way to connect the meter to the sub. what might be easiest (relatively speaking) is to buy a powered sub from your local B&M, test out the receiver, and then return the sub for a full refund. a bit of a hassle, but you'd know for sure if your receiver is working properly.


----------



## yellen1

hi all,


Just starting to put my HT and ordered polk rm6005 with psw10 subwoofer [email protected] 1call. Will be connect to onkyo 605 along with sammy ln t4065f and sammy 1200 blu ray. all for small 300 sq. feet carpeted room

Not to late to make changes. Have limited funds trying to go slow. Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Thanks to all


----------



## spacesaverHT

Wow..great thread. I've Onkyo 790 and am in process of replacing them with better speaker package. Till this time, I was looking at the speakers forum and yes, it was intimidating for a budget speaker system.

I was pretty happy with 790 ,but i'm upgrading because of speaker quality and size of 790. I'm moving to smaller apartment and it won't that big speakers and also my wife will never approve that :- )


New system:

Receiver:

1) planning to keep the same receiver ( SR 540) OR

2) if I can sell the 790 for good price, then I can get the receiver for that money ( Onkyo 604,605)


SPeaker system:


Here is where i'm more confused. From various threads, I understand that bigger speakers ( floorstanding etc) produces great sound than small speakers. But I've the space limitation and so, getting nice small wall mountable speakers is a must..but don't want to compromise much on sound..


1) small yet reasonable powerful speakers ( wall mountable)

2) looking to buy speaker package ( 5.1) instead of individual speakers

3) watching mostly movies ( 
4) budget around $400-$700


I looked at infinity tss-1200 ( for $700 at fry's) and liked it very much. After going through the forums/threads, POLK seem to be popular..

Please help me in selecting one of these..

tss-1200,tss-800, polk 6880 , KLIPSCH cinema 6..


----------



## cav03

First of all, great thread. I've learned a ton just from browsing.


Now here's my situation: I have a 37" Panasonic Plasma, an HD cable box and an upconverting Panasonic DVD player. I just ordered a silver Onkyo 304 receiver (couldn't resist at $100, and I think it'll meet my needs for a while). Now I need me some speakers.


I'm looking to start with a 2.0 / 3.0 system at first, and then add a subwoofer (probably the H-100) in a bit. Don't need too much power because I live in an apartment. Here's what I'm currently considering to start with:

*1. Set of x-ls speakers ($219 - $249)*

The problems with these are 1) The wait to get them and 2) I don't know where I'd put the center speaker if I decide to add one. (I have very limited space for a center, and the x-cs seems to be pretty big).

*2. Pair of PSB Alpha LR1's + Alpha CLR (~$288)*

PSB's came to me highly recommended. Works well with my space constraints.

*3. Pair of Paradigm Cinema 70's + Cinema CC (~$248)*

I used to own a pair of Paradigms and really enjoyed them. Again, meets my space requirements.


So I guess the ultimate question is: would you rather have a 2.1 system with the x-ls speakers, or a 3.1 system with smaller speakers from PSB / Paradigm? Any other route I should consider?


Thanks!


-Scott


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spacesaverHT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked at infinity tss-1200 ( for $700 at fry's) and liked it very much. After going through the forums/threads, POLK seem to be popular..
> 
> Please help me in selecting one of these..
> 
> tss-1200,tss-800, polk 6880 , KLIPSCH cinema 6..



I haven't heard any of these sat packages, but Frys carries the Polks too, so listen and get a preference. The higher priced systems will probably sound a bit better. You'd probably best include one of the Hsu packages...you'll get a much better sub.


----------



## vgauri

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum - I have spent a week working my way through the posts and demoing stuff at local stores. I had been looking to upgrade my 4 year old Sony HTIB and enjoyed looking at other peoples' choices and recommendations. I have acquired so far


Receiver: HK AVR 340 ($310 shipped -ebay, awaiting delivery)

Front: Polk R300s (listened to them at Fry's and picked up a pair for $49 each)

Rear: Polk R150s ($49/pair from Outpost, awaiting delivery)

Center: Polk CSi25 ($80 shipped, awaiting delivery)

Sub: TBD


Total spent so far: $550 or so - budget remaining ~ $200


I have narrowed my sub choices down to the BIC H-100, x-sub and the Velodyne VX-10 or VRP-1000 (These are sort of in my price range)


I am looking for recommendations for Subs, any advice would be appreciated.


One key question I have is about size - Bic is 12", Velos are 10" and x-sub is 8" - does that automatically mean that the Bic would have the richest sound? My home theater is about 20x14 with a projector and a 6x9 screen size.


BTW - I hooked up the R300s to my old Sony Receiver, and saw a modest improvement in sound right away. Waiting to see what the HK would do with these, will post my experience when I receive the rest of the equipment.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vgauri* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum - I have spent a week working my way through the posts and demoing stuff at local stores. I had been looking to upgrade my 4 year old Sony HTIB and enjoyed looking at other peoples' choices and recommendations. I have acquired so far
> 
> 
> Receiver: HK AVR 340 ($310 shipped -ebay, awaiting delivery)
> 
> Front: Polk R300s (listened to them at Fry's and picked up a pair for $49 each)
> 
> Rear: Polk R150s ($49/pair from Outpost, awaiting delivery)
> 
> Center: Polk CSi25 ($80 shipped, awaiting delivery)
> 
> Sub: TBD
> 
> 
> Total spent so far: $550 or so - budget remaining ~ $200
> 
> 
> I have narrowed my sub choices down to the BIC H-100, x-sub and the Velodyne VX-10 or VRP-1000 (These are sort of in my price range)
> 
> 
> I am looking for recommendations for Subs, any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> One key question I have is about size - Bic is 12", Velos are 10" and x-sub is 8" - does that automatically mean that the Bic would have the richest sound? My home theater is about 20x14 with a projector and a 6x9 screen size.
> 
> 
> BTW - I hooked up the R300s to my old Sony Receiver, and saw a modest improvement in sound right away. Waiting to see what the HK would do with these, will post my experience when I receive the rest of the equipment.



Skip the entry level Velos...you're past them with the Bic and the x-sub. Since your room is fairly good sized, I'd lean toward the Bic, but (and here's the prverbial kicker), you'll get more extention and output for $300 shipped with the eD A2-250. I've heard the Bic and it will be fine, but you're pretty close to the next level of performance. 6 months ago you couldn't get there for less than $450.


----------



## turbomod

I need to get started with my amp, but I don't live in the U.S. and I can't listen to any in stores. My main targets are the panny xr55 and the onkyo 504, both seem really nice and fit my budget, the receiver would be used mainly for blu-ray/hd gaming/ and music. Whatdo you think would be my best bet? I really won't use it to pass any video through it, just sound through the optical input.

Thanks


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *turbomod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I need to get started with my amp, but I don't live in the U.S. and I can't listen to any in stores. My main targets are the panny xr55 and the onkyo 504, both seem really nice and fit my budget, the receiver would be used mainly for blu-ray/hd gaming/ and music. Whatdo you think would be my best bet? I really won't use it to pass any video through it, just sound through the optical input.
> 
> Thanks



Both of those choices are great. The XR55 is generally thought of as the choice for sound quality, it's also smaller and runs cooler so it wouldn't requre as much airflow to keep it cool if you're going to place it in a tight space.


The 504 can be found at a better price usually and is a little more user friendly, has more customizable settings in comparison. Both are great choices.


----------



## blobula

I've noticed a lot of people buy their speaker wire and banana plugs from Monoprice. Would these plugs be ok for the Polk R300, R50 and R150 speakers?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style= 


These are the screw type. I assume these would be easier to use then the solder type?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've noticed a lot of people buy their speaker wire and banana plugs from Monoprice. Would these plugs be ok for the Polk R300, R50 and R150 speakers?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=
> 
> 
> These are the screw type. I assume these would be easier to use then the solder type?



Bananas will work with any speaker with binding posts. The screw type bananas work fine.


----------



## ZMAG

Really great info here! I have to say all of this sure does make you think. Originally, I was going to buy the Denon DHT687BA HTIB from CC ($799), but after finding this thread, I'm rethinking.


What do you guys think about some of the refurb Denon receivers on eCost compared with the deals you're finding on HK and Onkyo's?


For instance an AVR-686S for $159: (Sorry, cannot post a URL yet.)


Also, do you think the SVS SBS system will be good in a room as large as 20'x30' with a high vaulted ceiling? I don't listen to music real loud, but I don't want it to be difficult to hear dialogue far from the front.




Thanks!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZMAG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really great info here! I have to say all of this sure does make you think. Originally, I was going to buy the Denon DHT687BA HTIB from CC ($799), but after finding this thread, I'm rethinking.
> 
> 
> What do you guys think about some of the refurb Denon receivers on eCost compared with the deals you're finding on HK and Onkyo's?
> 
> 
> For instance an AVR-686S for $159: (Sorry, cannot post a URL yet.)
> 
> 
> Also, do you think the SVS SBS system will be good in a room as large as 20'x30' with a high vaulted ceiling? I don't listen to music real loud, but I don't want it to be difficult to hear dialogue far from the front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!



Big room...don't know your budget, but I think you should plan on 7.1 and get a receiver with plenty of power. As far as a choice, I think it's a good one. In a room that sized you'll need a good sub. The Denon refurbs might be fine. I haven't looked lately, but when I did, I was seeing 90days. My own experience with HKs 2 year warranty on their refurbs make me think 90 days isn't enough.


----------



## Stuffed




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> interesting question....whatever voltage coming out of the sub pre-out is going to be low, so you'd need a sensitive meter and a way to connect the meter to the sub. what might be easiest (relatively speaking) is to buy a powered sub from your local B&M, test out the receiver, and then return the sub for a full refund. a bit of a hassle, but you'd know for sure if your receiver is working properly.




Thanks for the voltage info. I think I'm going to try my computer first. I found this thread on creating 'waterfalls' while reading a 101 on setting up speaker systems.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30 


I already got a 50' cable for the LFE out so it should be an easy run to my pc. If I can't figure this out at all I'll take your advice on sub from a B&M. Thanks


----------



## vgauri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Skip the entry level Velos...you're past them with the Bic and the x-sub. Since your room is fairly good sized, I'd lean toward the Bic, but (and here's the prverbial kicker), you'll get more extention and output for $300 shipped with the eD A2-250. I've heard the Bic and it will be fine, but you're pretty close to the next level of performance. 6 months ago you couldn't get there for less than $450.



Thanks Ron, did some more research and decided to go with your recommendation for the eD A2-250. Now all I have to do is to figure out how to conceal its looks










Can't wait to try it out..


----------



## ZMAG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Big room...don't know your budget, but I think you should plan on 7.1 and get a receiver with plenty of power. As far as a choice, I think it's a good one. In a room that sized you'll need a good sub. The Denon refurbs might be fine. I haven't looked lately, but when I did, I was seeing 90days. My own experience with HKs 2 year warranty on their refurbs make me think 90 days isn't enough.




That's a very good point about the warranties. I didn't realize the refurb HK's have the 2 year warranty. My budget is probably around $1000, though I'd like to spend less.


Yeah, this is our Great Room in the center of the house. I would love to do 7.1 surround, but I don't really have a wall on one side, and I probably wouldn't be able to run wire to the other side as there's no attic access. Luckily (well maybe not) we had a pipe burst a few years ago and they had to rip out the ceiling below the room in question. So, I was able to run a rope through the floor to allow pulling wire in the future. Problem is, I can only pull wire to the back wall now.


Anyway, the only surrounds I can place would be against the back wall, so at the most, maybe 6.1 surround. Plus, I'm constrained on speaker size by the wife. No floor standers and probably no wall mounts in the back as it is a load bearing wall with horizontal studs running through it.


I'll take a look at the HK's.


Thanks.


----------



## kmackenz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're seriously looking to buy the 304, sign up for Club Onkyo at shoponkyo. The 304 price will go down to $99 and that includes free shipping. They also have a special on the top of the page for another 10% off June 22 - July 6. You might be able to take another $10 off as a new member at checkout too.
> 
> 
> I myself would go 504 over 304 because of the binding post on the speaker terminals, 7.1 vs 5.1 and more digital inputs. Plus its XM ready if you have that service.
> 
> 
> Not sure where you live but Fry's Electronics has had the 304 and 504 on sale new for $99 and $149 respectively at times over the last few weeks. Probably clearing out old stock since the 505 has been introduced.



ShopOnkyo has the refurbs again and yes, if you are a new member you get $10 off plus a 10% off sale so that gets this receiver in Black for $86 and change...


$99 - $9.90 - $10 + $5.60 = $85.60


Can't beat that!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZMAG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll take a look at the HK's.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



If you go back a couple of months in this thread, I mentioned +/-'s regarding HK refurbs. It's tough to beat their sound quality and the features are nice...bargain prices from HK Direct on ebay. The warranty is wonderful. In my case I needed it twice, but the swapout is painless. No taking it to an authorized repair center, you just pack it up and ship it back...they send you a new one. I gave a Denon 2307CI a try while waiting...nice HT receiver, but HKs just sound better to my ears...I'm pretty picky.


The reason I recommended 7.1 is coverage...5.1 will work, just be sure to calibrate with a SPL meter. You'll probably have to run your surrounds at a higher volume to compensate for distance.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kmackenz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ShopOnkyo has the refurbs again and yes, if you are a new member you get $10 off plus a 10% off sale so that gets this receiver in Black for $86 and change...
> 
> 
> $99 - $9.90 - $10 + $5.60 = $85.60
> 
> 
> Can't beat that!!



They are listing the refurbs at $119 so that only gets you down to $97.10 according to my math. Do the club members get an even better price on these units?


----------



## T3h Professor

The 504 is showing up now @ $169 refurbished.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are listing the refurbs at $119 so that only gets you down to $97.10 according to my math. Do the club members get an even better price on these units?



Some club prices you have to log in to see what the price is, although it should say, "Log in for lower price!" or something to that effect. It's only for certain items.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are listing the refurbs at $119 so that only gets you down to $97.10 according to my math. Do the club members get an even better price on these units?



Well...I guess it no longer matters. J&R now has stock on the 605 so my order should be shipping shortly (last minute considerations are now closed).










- Shawn


I got the tracking number and it is on its way.


----------



## kmackenz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are listing the refurbs at $119 so that only gets you down to $97.10 according to my math. Do the club members get an even better price on these units?



Yes. When you sign up the price goes to $99.


----------



## Pagash




vgauri said:


> Thanks Ron, decided to go with your recommendation for the eD A2-250. Now all I have to do is to figure out how to conceal its looks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I read in the Subwoofer thread that you can purchase the ED's without the truckliner finish, just raw MDF, and then paint them or veneer them yourself, and it knocks $50 off the price. Something to think about!


----------



## chikka




Pagash said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vgauri* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, decided to go with your recommendation for the eD A2-250. Now all I have to do is to figure out how to conceal its looks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I read in the Subwoofer thread that you can purchase the ED's without the truckliner finish, just raw MDF, and then paint them or veneer them yourself, and it knocks $50 off the price. Something to think about!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI,
> 
> I just chatted with someone at eD and confirmed that they will give discount for unfinished case of $20 and not $50.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pagash

Anyone familiar with the Polk RM6750 speaker set on sale at Fry's and Outpost at the moment for $199:

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/418...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


Looks like a good deal, but have no idea of the sound quality.


----------



## afrogt

Does look like a good deal. You've got a Fry's close to you out there. Give them a listen.


Here are some online reviews if this helps.
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Cha...4958851&sr=8-1


----------



## MarkAELSU

Hey guys what would sound better, the veldolyne cht package or 4 r150 polks? 200 dollars versus 100 as a pair no including stands or center speaker. Thanks


----------



## kentrl

Thought I would post back what I finally ended up with after much research and patience as well as following this thread. Thanks to everyone for their input to this thread and to my own questions.. I could not be happier with what I purchased.



Receiver - HK 340 ($203.50 - Ebay)


Speakers:

Main: 2x Polk RTi 8's ($500.00)

Center: Polk CSi3 ($110.00 - Ebay)

Rear: 2x Polk RTi 4s ($90.00 - Ebay)

Sub: SVS PB10-NSD ($429.00)


Original Budget was $1000.00

Total Spent = 1332.50 (Also note, Patience on Ebay pays off end the end!!







)


I could not help going over.. lol.. I was going to go way low end and keep looking a better pieces..










ROB


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kentrl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thought I would post back what I finally ended up with after much research and patience as well as following this thread. Thanks to everyone for their input to this thread and to my own questions.. I could not be happier with what I purchased.
> 
> 
> 
> Receiver - HK 340 ($203.50 - Ebay)
> 
> 
> Speakers:
> 
> Main: 2x Polk RTi 8's ($500.00)
> 
> Center: Polk CSi3 ($110.00 - Ebay)
> 
> Rear: 2x Polk RTi 4s ($90.00 - Ebay)
> 
> Sub: SVS PB10-NSD ($429.00)
> 
> 
> Original Budget was $1000.00
> 
> Total Spent = 1332.50 (Also note, Patience on Ebay pays off end the end!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> I could not help going over.. lol.. I was going to go way low end and keep looking a better pieces..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROB



That's not exactly a budget system, but it's certainly an excellent setup. Congrats...when the budget allows find a used 2 or 3 channel amp to put on your fronts...you'll have a new set of speakers. Enjoy.


----------



## kentrl




> Quote:
> That's not exactly a budget system



Ron,


I was thinking the same thing at the end. At the beginning I was thinking for my first system I would only spend $800. The more I read this thread and several others about Polks the more I was convinced I wanted just a little more. Also the amp is defintley it my future plans. Any suggestions?


In addtion out of the all the pieces Ive bought I have to say the sub completly blows me a way. I know alot of people spoke highly of it but holy crap, I really was not expecting how significant it was going to be to the setup.



ROB


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kentrl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In addtion out of the all the pieces Ive bought I have to say the sub completly blows me a way. I know alot of people spoke highly of it but holy crap, I really was not expecting how significant it was going to be to the setup.













nice setup, and i hear you on the sub...that type of quality bass makes all the difference in the HT experience. good luck with it.


----------



## Ron Temple

I briefly owned the 8s and 3. I really enjoyed them. Doing the job right the first time ultimately saves you money in the end.


Popular used 2 channel amps...Adcom, Rotel, Carver, B&K, Parasound, a ton of others. Outlaw and Emotiva are selling reasonably priced current models.


----------



## buzzy_

I don't know if this is one of the subs commented on, but just in case ... FYI for the budget systems, maybe the only news is free shipping .... search the old threads in the Sub forum for comments:

Dayton SUB-100 10" 125 Watt Powered Subwoofer $125 shipped 

Dayton SUB-120 12" 150 Watt Powered Subwoofer $149


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is one of the subs commented on, but just in case ... FYI for the budget systems, maybe the only news is free shipping .... search the old threads in the Sub forum for comments:
> 
> Dayton SUB-100 10" 125 Watt Powered Subwoofer $125 shipped
> 
> Dayton SUB-120 12" 150 Watt Powered Subwoofer $149



I would stay away from the Daytons. Their previous down firing versions were great but since they changed designs are a real disappointment. I purchased the 12" to replace my HTIB sub and frankly with output not being an issue I would have rather had my HTIB sub. They do have lots of output for what they are but it's boomy and muddy in comparison to other budget subs.


For a little more the Bic H-100 and AV123 Xsub are much better quality and if you want to stay in the same price range you can usually find a Velodyne in the same price range locally, especially if you live close to a frys that will be a better choice.


----------



## vgauri

FYI: I did end up ordering it unfinished, and they knocked off $20. They said they have never knocked of $50 for anyone. It might save a few days as well.






chikka said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> FYI,
> 
> I just chatted with someone at eD and confirmed that they will give discount for unfinished case of $20 and not $50.
Click to expand...


----------



## vgauri

I just realized that Polk Csi25 that I ordered for my HK 340 is rated at 4ohms impedance while R series are all 8ohms. Will this be a problem for my setup? Or will the HK deal with it without a fuss? The HK output is rated at 8ohms I believe..Thanks in advance.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Skip the entry level Velos...you're past them with the Bic and the x-sub. Since your room is fairly good sized, I'd lean toward the Bic, but (and here's the prverbial kicker), you'll get more extention and output for $300 shipped with the eD A2-250. I've heard the Bic and it will be fine, but you're pretty close to the next level of performance. 6 months ago you couldn't get there for less than $450.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vgauri* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just realized that Polk Csi25 that I ordered for my HK 340 is rated at 4ohms impedance while R series are all 8ohms. Will this be a problem for my setup? Or will the HK deal with it without a fuss? The HK output is rated at 8ohms I believe..Thanks in advance.



It will draw more current, but a single speaker won't hurt much. My son's got this speaker matched with R30s. It's been noted before, no one's had a problem yet.


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would stay away from the Daytons. ... For a little more the Bic H-100 and AV123 Xsub are much better quality and if you want to stay in the same price range you can usually find a Velodyne in the same price range locally, especially if you live close to a frys that will be a better choice.



Good advice. At some point things go from being "budget" to "cheap", ie, not worth buying.


----------



## T3h Professor

Damn it! So i was alll set on buying one of the polk combos and I just realized the tv stand I bought only has an opening for the center channel that is 18" wide. There is one center channel that is exactly 18" which of course won't work, and all of the others are 20+ inches. So what would be a good alternative to polk in that price range that would have a smaller center? I've seen the AV123 option and that center channel looks too big as well.


----------



## Sig-Sauer

I think JBL makes a small center, check frys online. I have also seen polk like deals from frys on some of their stuff.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn it! So i was alll set on buying one of the polk combos and I just realized the tv stand I bought only has an opening for the center channel that is 18" wide. There is one center channel that is exactly 18" which of course won't work, and all of the others are 20+ inches. So what would be a good alternative to polk in that price range that would have a smaller center? I've seen the AV123 option and that center channel looks too big as well.



Which Polks...the CS1 is a great match for the Rs...it's 18".


----------



## T3h Professor

Thanks Ron, maybe I'll give that one a try. I was originally looking @ the csi25 to go with some R50's and r150's. It'll be a tight fit! But I guess I could always return it if it doesn't fit.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, maybe I'll give that one a try. I was originally looking @ the csi25 to go with some R50's and r150's. It'll be a tight fit! But I guess I could always return it if it doesn't fit.



One of my sons has the same problem and picked up a CS1 for his R50s...it fits...and I think it's a nicer center than the 25 anyway...not a perfect match, but very close.


----------



## T3h Professor

How do the polk m10's compare to the rest of the r series?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3h Professor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How do the polk m10's compare to the rest of the r series?



The m10 and m20 sold at CC are R15 and R30 with a silver face...identical otherwise.


----------



## nombrecinq

I have a start to a home theater but I need some help rounding it out. For some reason I keep liking the SVS stuff, but I'm open to all suggestions. Here's what I have right now:


Yamaha RXV-995 receiver

Pair of Klipsch SB-1 bookshelf speakers


Could I use those Klipsch speakers or are they just too terrible to put up with?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a start to a home theater but I need some help rounding it out. For some reason I keep liking the SVS stuff, but I'm open to all suggestions. Here's what I have right now:
> 
> 
> Yamaha RXV-995 receiver
> 
> Pair of Klipsch SB-1 bookshelf speakers
> 
> 
> Could I use those Klipsch speakers or are they just too terrible to put up with?



You could use them as surrounds which will help you out a little on your initial budget.


----------



## nombrecinq

Assuming I use the SB-1 as surrounds, what would be a good setup for mains, center channel and a sub?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Assuming I use the SB-1 as surrounds, what would be a good setup for mains, center channel and a sub?



The SVS speakers and sub you mention are excellent. If budget allows get SCS for LCR along with the PB10 or 12. The SBS are very good, just the SCS do everything better. The x-ls/x-cs are also excellent...from www.********** , warmer sound, more laid-back. The x-sub is a great budget sub, but not close to the SVS. You can mix and match subs as long as you stay with the same line of LCR.


----------



## Nightman116

Hello everyone. I've just got done reading all the post on this thread and from the looks of it, i'm probably not going to get the HTIB onkyo SR800. From everyone's post, especially Ron and G-star, i've come up with a system and wonder if everyone can tweak it. As I said, i was looking at the SR800 because of the wife budget, so around $500 is what i can mostly spend. This is my first setup, and have inherited some old speakers that i don't know work anymore and can't test without a receiver.


This is what i've seen so far on setups for starters:

2 sets of Polk R150 @ $50 frys

Polk CSR @ 179 frys / 100 @ crutchfield

Onkyo TX-SR505 @ $269


From what i've read, the sub is the most important item in the surround sound. Does anyone know where i can change to maybe get either the

bic-100 or x-sub or Polk's brand of sub(name left me)


Right now i'm looking for the 5.1 surround sound, but i know i'm selling myself short by not getting the r300 for front and r150 for rear sound. Under this budget, i know that i can't do everything i want.


----------



## blobula

You can get the Onkyo TX-SR505 for much less off of here.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...activeda657-20


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nightman116* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what i've read, the sub is the most important item in the surround sound. Does anyone know where i can change to maybe get either the
> 
> bic-100 or x-sub or Polk's brand of sub(name left me)



$500 is a tight but do-able budget it you have some patience. check out shoponkyo for some deals on refurbished receivers. good deals on the polks pop up from time to time as well....check out fry's and the like. i would definitely recommend the x-sub or the Bic over the polk sub...they seem to be the best options around $200. good luck.


----------



## Mraddict

I have a tight budget, and am looking for some suggestions.


I will probably get a Onkyo 504 for $160 for the receiver.


I was thinking either Polk R50 for $70 each or Athena AS-B1.2 for $100 a pair for my mains.


I am not sure about my center channel or surrounds yet, looking for recommendations.


I think I will go with a Dayton 10" for $125 as the woofer.


That leaves about $115 or so for the center and rears. Which won’t work so…










The idea was to build a 5.1 system for under $500. So I need some recommendations, maybe a cheaper receiver or something. Some advice would be greatly appreciated. The system will be used in a fairly odd sized room, it will be used with a projector so mainly for movies and gaming.


Maybe some POLK AUDIO R150 for $50 for the surrounds leaving $65 left so the center probably won’t work.


----------



## nombrecinq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The SVS speakers and sub you mention are excellent. If budget allows get SCS for LCR along with the PB10 or 12. The SBS are very good, just the SCS do everything better. The x-ls/x-cs are also excellent...from www.********** , warmer sound, more laid-back. The x-sub is a great budget sub, but not close to the SVS. You can mix and match subs as long as you stay with the same line of LCR.



What company makes the SCS speakers?


I didn't really want to spend ~700 upgrading the rest of this system... but I just might have to


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What company makes the SCS speakers?
> 
> 
> I didn't really want to spend ~700 upgrading the rest of this system... but I just might have to



SVS...The SBS-01 package consist of 4 SBS-01s and an SCS-01(center). The SCS is an offset MTM design (midwoofer, tweeter, midwoofer) that can be used veritcally as a front L/R speaker. It's offered as an upgrade and is compared favorably to several much more expensive speakers. I wasn't sure of your budget, but it's worth taking a look at.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mraddict* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a tight budget, and am looking for some suggestions.
> 
> 
> I will probably get a Onkyo 504 for $160 for the receiver.
> 
> 
> I was thinking either Polk R50 for $70 each or Athena AS-B1.2 for $100 a pair for my mains.
> 
> 
> I am not sure about my center channel or surrounds yet, looking for recommendations.
> 
> 
> I think I will go with a Dayton 10" for $125 as the woofer.
> 
> 
> That leaves about $115 or so for the center and rears. Which won't work so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idea was to build a 5.1 system for under $500. So I need some recommendations, maybe a cheaper receiver or something. Some advice would be greatly appreciated. The system will be used in a fairly odd sized room, it will be used with a projector so mainly for movies and gaming.
> 
> 
> Maybe some POLK AUDIO R150 for $50 for the surrounds leaving $65 left so the center probably won't work.



If you have a Fry's store near you the Polk R300 floorstanders are $99/pr. Then buy the R150 for $40/pr for surrounds. Wait for a sale to find your Polk center, the prices do get lower.


Or if no Fry's store around, go for the Athena B1, C1 setup. That'll cost you $200 for 3 speakers then add your Onkyo receiver and whatever sub.


----------



## blobula

Speaking of sales...anyone know of any sales on the Polk CSR? Crutchfield has the best deal from their outlet that I've found. I've found some good deals on ebay for the CS1, but not sure if it's legit or if they will timbre match my R150's and R300's.


Here's the link for the CS1.

http://cgi.*********/New-Polk-Audio-...QQcmdZViewItem 


This store posts this speaker for around $99 plus $15 S/H. I've only seen it go for $160 - 180.


----------



## Jakeman02

The CSR is a good match for the R300s and 150s, as far as pricing, ebay will probably be the best route but if polk is like most the warranty is void unless you purchase from an authorized dealer.


----------



## G-star

just a heads up...i got an email from audioadvisor saying that the parent company of athena (API) has been bought out, and they have decided to discontinue the line. seems like AA bought up a bunch of audition series speakers and are offering them at somewhat of a discount:

audioadvisor.com (search for athena)


----------



## Ron Temple

$100 buck for a CS1 off ebay is about right...probably legit...check em out first. You might prefer the CS1 to a CSR/M/i25 (same speaker/different cosmetics). It's not a perfect match, but a little added treble and bass in the middle isn't a bad thing. I tried one for awhile with R50s and liked it.


----------



## Mraddict




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you have a Fry's store near you the Polk R300 floorstanders are $99/pr. Then buy the R150 for $40/pr for surrounds. Wait for a sale to find your Polk center, the prices do get lower.
> 
> 
> Or if no Fry's store around, go for the Athena B1, C1 setup. That'll cost you $200 for 3 speakers then add your Onkyo receiver and whatever sub.



No Frys in my area and the shipping takes a large chunk of the budget. The Athena setup is only a 3.1 setup, I was really hoping for a 5.1 setup for less then $500.


I Priced another setup using the Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers ($85/pr) as the mains, Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker ($99) and Dayton 10" ($124) and Onkyo 504 that comes to around $470, so I could go over budget $20, and get either Acoustic Research A2's (which I couldn't find online) or Polk R150's. Which surrounds would sound better and are there any other surrounds that are in the $50/pr range.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> just a heads up...i got an email from audioadvisor saying that the parent company of athena (API) has been bought out, and they have decided to discontinue the line. seems like AA bought up a bunch of audition series speakers and are offering them at somewhat of a discount:
> 
> audioadvisor.com (search for athena)



I got that email yesterday too, but I got the same one 3 months ago. The prices for Athenas are still the same as they have been. I was expecting lowered pricing after getting the letter again. Oh well.


I've got more than enough speakers anyway. Don't need any more.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mraddict* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No Frys in my area and the shipping takes a large chunk of the budget. The Athena setup is only a 3.1 setup, I was really hoping for a 5.1 setup for less then $500.
> 
> 
> I Priced another setup using the Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers ($85/pr) as the mains, Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker ($99) and Dayton 10" ($124) and Onkyo 504 that comes to around $470, so I could go over budget $20, and get either Acoustic Research A2's (which I couldn't find online) or Polk R150's. Which surrounds would sound better and are there any other surrounds that are in the $50/pr range.



Look at these surrounds, and since you're already buying your sub at Parts Express, you'll get free shipping. They're not the perfect match for the Athenas but neither are the Polks or AR A2's. Since they're only surrounds it doesn't matter much. This will get you right at your $500 price point. And they include mounting bracket hardware if you plan to do that.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-670


----------



## Gaytoray

Another Onkyo 504 owner here, I was planning on going either Polk R50s or R300s with matching surrounds like R150s or CS1s, but they might be too bulky for my taste. Instead, made up my mind on Polk RM20 5pack speaker system, and hopefully I'm not sacrificing too much over design.


As for the subwoofer, Polk PSW110 or Polk PSW303 are on my current list. How do you pick sub for the receiver btw? I'd assume Onkyo 504 outputs 75watts per channel, and what happens if to get 200w subwoofer?


Also, what's the deal with video shielding on subwoofers? Don't we all have LCD TVs?


----------



## Jakeman02

Don't worry about matching the subwoofer with the receiver. Subwoofers are powered and have their own amp built in. The 504 receiver does not power a sub. The wattage you see listed on the 504s specs does not apply to the sub.


No we don't all have LCD TVs I'm still in the dark ages with my 11 yr old panasonic that won't die. Has a perfect picture and I can't justify investing in another until it does, but saying that I can't think of any subs off the top of my head that are video shielded and I've never had a problem. I guess if you put the sub on top of the tv you might







.


Of the polks you listed for the price I've found doing a quick search I think you can do much better with the Bic H-100 or the X-Sub from av123. The x-sub is on backorder now though. If you want to move up in price a little the ED A2-250 and A2-300 are amazing subs for their price and include free shipping.


----------



## Gaytoray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't worry about matching the subwoofer with the receiver. Subwoofers are powered and have their own amp built in. The 504 receiver does not power a sub. The wattage you see listed on the 504s specs does not apply to the sub.



Hmm... so using the LFE input has nothing to do in this regard?


----------



## Mraddict




> Quote:
> Look at these surrounds, and since you're already buying your sub at Parts Express, you'll get free shipping. They're not the perfect match for the Athenas but neither are the Polks or AR A2's. Since they're only surrounds it doesn't matter much. This will get you right at your $500 price point. And they include mounting bracket hardware if you plan to do that.





Thanks, how will these speakers compare to the Polks r150 or AR A2.


The Total system so far:


Mains- Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers

Center- Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 C

Surrounds- Dayton SAT

Sub - Dayton 10"

Receiver - Onkyo 504


Total - Around $500


Will this system work well for movies and gaming? I will go and listen to most of the speakers if possible. Can any one say if they think this will be a good system or could recommend any changes?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Thanks, how will these speakers compare to the Polks r150 or AR A2.



Have no clue, never heard them. But I've never heard the AR A2 either. Someone is this thread did buy the Dayton satellites and gave them a great review. But you'll have to go back many pages to find it.


But for $32/pr are you really gonna complain?



> Quote:
> Will this system work well for movies and gaming



It'll be fine for movies. Don't know about gaming because I don't play them at all.


But for $500 for a receiver, 5 speakers and subwoofer, you're doing much better than if you would have purcahased a HTIB system.



> Quote:
> I will go and listen to most of the speakers if possible



I doubt it. None of the speakers are available in stores. Best Buy stopped carrying the Athenas long ago. And they Daytons can only be purcahased online.


I can tell you this. I have an Onkyo 5xx-series receiver, Athena B1 and C1 and Dayton sub and I use it daily. I'm very happy with it. My Dayton sub is an older model than the one you're purchasing though. My system was also ~$500.


----------



## Mraddict




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have no clue, never heard them. But I've never heard the AR A2 either. Someone is this thread did buy the Dayton satellites and gave them a great review. But you'll have to go back many pages to find it.
> 
> 
> But for $32/pr are you really gonna complain?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It'll be fine for movies. Don't know about gaming because I don't play them at all.
> 
> 
> But for $500 for a receiver, 5 speakers and subwoofer, you're doing much better than if you would have purcahased a HTIB system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it. None of the speakers are available in stores. Best Buy stopped carrying the Athenas long ago. And they Daytons can only be purcahased online.
> 
> 
> I can tell you this. I have an Onkyo 5xx-series receiver, Athena B1 and C1 and Dayton sub and I use it daily. I'm very happy with it. My Dayton sub is an older model than the one you're purchasing though. My system was also ~$500.



Thanks, if I wanted to upgrade the surrounds later what would you recommend?


----------



## Nightman116

Has anyone ever had the BICV1020 sub? I'm debating on either this sub or the x-sub. Is this the upgraded sub from the h100?


----------



## ClayM

what color are those Athena 1.2s? They look silver w/ a black filter front thing.


also, what stands would you recommend to go along with the athenas?


----------



## ClayM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elvis Is Alive* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 605 can transcode any analog imput signal (composite, s-video, component) to HDMI out to the TV. Nice if you want to only run one connector to your display. However, as I mentioned earlier any incoming 1080i signal sent to the 605 via component will be downconverted to 720p when HDMI is sent to the display. If you want to avoid this, you can send component out to the display from the 605 or connect directly to the display and connect audio to the 605 only. Any HDMI signal is passed thru without any changes to its resolution. So 480p in = 480p out. The 605 owners thread goes in depth regarding this, check there or send me a PM so we don't go off topic anymore.



Will 1080p component also be downgraded?


----------



## Hi My Name Is

Im getting a Onkyo TX-SR674



I was wondering which speaker setup out of these two would perform better, the onkyo got a nice review at Cnet.



HK
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142960 




Onkyo
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4043204 








And does anyone with this reciever know if i could do a 2.1 or 3.1 setup.
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4124859


----------



## bdizzle

Hey guys great thread here. I'm working on my audio setup and would like some feedback. I'm building slow and I'm in no rush, so here's what I'm planning on getting when it's all said and done:


2xPolk R50 - Fronts

2xPolk R150 - Surrounds

1xPolk CSi25 - Center

BIC H-100 - Sub

Onkyo 604 - Rcvr


I'm a real audio rookie when it comes to this stuff, and pretty much copied whats been recommended. I don't want to spend too much because its my 1st set. I went to CC and listened to the M10 and M20's that Ron Temple mentioned in a post, and they sound really good. Does anyone know how they compare to the R50 and 150? If it's the same or better I'll be happy when I get my speakers in. So far Ive only bought the R50's (ordered tonight) and will probably get the receiver sometime in the morning for a budget 2.0 setup. I've never had a surround sound system before, but I'm getting this stuff in the hopes that I can listen to TrueHD and hopefully be blown away. So if anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I'd appreciate it. As long as it's better than the audio that's coming from my TV speakers, I know I'll be happy.


Thanks


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClayM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what color are those Athena 1.2s? They look silver w/ a black filter front thing.



Black cabinet, silver baffle with a removable black grille.




> Quote:
> also, what stands would you recommend to go along with the athenas?


 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENCST 


I have my Athenas on some.


----------



## Pagash




Hi My Name Is said:


> Im getting a Onkyo TX-SR674
> 
> 
> I was wondering which speaker setup out of these two would perform better, the onkyo got a nice review at Cnet.
> 
> 
> HK
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4142960
> 
> 
> Onkyo
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4043204 QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I suspect you will be disappointed with both of those. There are plenty of great speaker options mentioned in the last few pages of this thread. Polks are often on sale at Fry's, Audio Advisor has great deals on Athena's at the moment, and HSU has some good packages if that's the way you would prefer to go:
> 
> http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html
> 
> http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys great thread here. I'm working on my audio setup and would like some feedback. I'm building slow and I'm in no rush, so here's what I'm planning on getting when it's all said and done:
> 
> 
> 2xPolk R50 - Fronts
> 
> 2xPolk R150 - Surrounds
> 
> 1xPolk CSi25 - Center
> 
> BIC H-100 - Sub
> 
> Onkyo 604 - Rcvr
> 
> 
> I'm a real audio rookie when it comes to this stuff, and pretty much copied whats been recommended. I don't want to spend too much because its my 1st set. I went to CC and listened to the M10 and M20's that Ron Temple mentioned in a post, and they sound really good. Does anyone know how they compare to the R50 and 150? If it's the same or better I'll be happy when I get my speakers in. So far Ive only bought the R50's (ordered tonight) and will probably get the receiver sometime in the morning for a budget 2.0 setup. I've never had a surround sound system before, but I'm getting this stuff in the hopes that I can listen to TrueHD and hopefully be blown away. So if anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I'd appreciate it. As long as it's better than the audio that's coming from my TV speakers, I know I'll be happy.
> 
> 
> Thanks



The R50s are the king of the R lineup...the R150s should be better than the M10s or R15s...they have a larger cabinet...though I'm not sure about that.


----------



## ClayM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Black cabinet, silver baffle with a removable black grille.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENCST
> 
> 
> I have my Athenas on some.



What do you put your center channel on?


edit: oh dear, the wife says your suggested stands are "really ugly"


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The R50s are the king of the R lineup...the R150s should be better than the M10s or R15s...they have a larger cabinet...though I'm not sure about that.



I checked polk's and the cabinets on the R150's aren't that much bigger compared to the M10's. The 150's are a 1/2" wider, but 3/4" shallower. I don't know much about speakers, but I don't think that should make a huge difference. R50's are have an additional woofer, so i know it'll be better than the one at CC.


thanks for the help Ron.


----------



## mystacal

I have been a long time lurker on these forums and used them extensively to make an informed home theater decision. Before visiting AVS Forum, I had no idea what differentiated 16 and 12 gauge wire, or even the meaning of speaker impedance. Fast forward a couple of months, and after initially looking exclusively at HTIB, I find myself with a setup that I absolutely love and for not much more than my initial budget. For that, I have to thank the AVS Forum community.


Here is what I ended up going with...


Onkyo TX-SR505 ($220)

Klipsch Quintet II ($250)

Velodyne VX-10 ($160)


All mated to a Samsung 4661F LCD. Great TV!


THANKS AGAIN!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked polk's and the cabinets on the R150's aren't that much bigger compared to the M10's. The 150's are a 1/2" wider, but 3/4" shallower. I don't know much about speakers, but I don't think that should make a huge difference. R50's are have an additional woofer, so i know it'll be better than the one at CC.
> 
> 
> thanks for the help Ron.



I've seen but not heard the R300 and R150, they changed the cabinet design and tweeter and port placement for a reason...from what I've read, it does improve the SQ, though I don't know why. I think they are a bit more fugly though.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClayM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you put your center channel on?




My center is on top of the TV. I still have 36" Toshiba CRT. Not into HD yet. Probably coming soon though.




> Quote:
> edit: oh dear, the wife says your suggested stands are "really ugly"



Well, I don't know your wife nor her preferences for furniture, stands, etc. Your on your own with that. Good luck working that out.







The stands look great to me though.


Maybe she'd like these stands? They come in 24 and 31 inch heights and are black.
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...5821168&sr=8-3 


This is what they'd look like on stands. Those aren't Athenas but they look pretty similar with the grilles on.
http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/...ns/pcat/basic/ 



As far as your earlier question as to what surround speakers would be best with your Athenas. The best answer would be another pair of B1.2's. The optimal setup is to have the same speakers all around and the next best would be 4 of the same speaker and then the matching center. The B1.2 and C1.2 use the same woofer and tweeter with the C1.2 being horizontal and having two woofers instead of one.


----------



## Milhouse74

OK, so I have a couple of questions. I was kinda looking in to a newer and smaller set up then what I have now. I was thinking about going the HTIB route, but didn't think I would get the sound I wanted. So I have a couple of questions. Right now I have an old(prob 8 years) Sony reciever. I wanted to replace it with the Onkyo 604(I like the multiple hdmi's and ipod connectivity), unless I would be fine with the 504. Right now my setup is a 2.1. I am definetly going to replace the sub I have(old Yammy, small, not a lot of sound). I'm wondering if there is any reason why I should keep my other speakers though. I have Klipsch KG 3.2's(classics I suppose). I don't like that they are so big(width) and that they aren't shielded. Should I even worry that they aren't shielded? Would they bother my other components(Sony Grand Wega LCD projection tv, dvd player, dvr, etc)? I would also get a center channel. Now if I end up keeping my klipsch speakers, would I have to go with a klipsch center? Also, how hard would it be to find something that "matches" their sound in a center channel since they are so old? Thanks for all the info.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milhouse74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, so I have a couple of questions. I was kinda looking in to a newer and smaller set up then what I have now. I was thinking about going the HTIB route, but didn't think I would get the sound I wanted. So I have a couple of questions. Right now I have an old(prob 8 years) Sony reciever. I wanted to replace it with the Onkyo 604(I like the multiple hdmi's and ipod connectivity), unless I would be fine with the 504. Right now my setup is a 2.1. I am definetly going to replace the sub I have(old Yammy, small, not a lot of sound). I'm wondering if there is any reason why I should keep my other speakers though. I have Klipsch KG 3.2's(classics I suppose). I don't like that they are so big(width) and that they aren't shielded. Should I even worry that they aren't shielded? Would they bother my other components(Sony Grand Wega LCD projection tv, dvd player, dvr, etc)? I would also get a center channel. Now if I end up keeping my klipsch speakers, would I have to go with a klipsch center? Also, how hard would it be to find something that "matches" their sound in a center channel since they are so old? Thanks for all the info.



First I'd advise setting a budget, that'll determine what range of equipment to look at otherwise you'll be swayed to no end with recommendations.


If you're looking at an HDMI receiver the 604 is probably your best route to go budget wise right now, otherwise the 504 is a good choice.


If you're going to use the Klipschs short term I wouldn't worry about a center. I seriously doubt you'll find one to match and you can set the receiver to give you a phantom center effect. When you upgrade the speakers you can go with a matching center.


It really depends on your budget to say which way to go. Most recommend upgrading the speakers and or sub first as that will usually make a bigger difference in sq but since you have a aging receiver and a capable pair of speakers you might want to take another route, really goes back to how much you can budget now


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've seen but not heard the R300 and R150, they changed the cabinet design and tweeter and port placement for a reason...from what I've read, it does improve the SQ, though I don't know why. I think they are a bit more fugly though.



oh ok cool, i didn't know that type of stuff would make a big difference. either way i think i'll be really happy because it should be a def upgrade from my tv speakers, and the m10/20 i heard at CC sounded really nice. I just ordered my receiver, so I'm making some progress in my build.


Can anyone recommend where I can get some speaker wires for cheap locally? I know monoprice has some, but the smallest they have are 50ft rolls.


thanks


----------



## afrogt

Try Home Depot or Lowes, they sell speaker wire by the foot. Also look at Radio Shack.


50ft really isn't that much where you're running 5 speakers. And it never hurts to have extra wire, you can cut it to any length.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search


----------



## buzzy_

Take another look at how much wire you need, by the time you get done running it it can add up, it's sometimes cheaper to buy bigger rolls, and running out of wire is a real buzz kill. Run some string or cord or something as a test to see how much you need.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend where I can get some speaker wires for cheap locally? I know monoprice has some, but the smallest they have are 50ft rolls.
> 
> 
> thanks



I will agree with what everyone is saying. I set up my relativeoly small room 2 years ago and now I need to buy longer wires for my new setup which required changing speaker placement. I calculated I need about 170 ft for my 7.1 system now. It is always better to have a little slack for the future. Consider wire rated for in wall installation if you might decide to try to hide the wires.


I saw a roll of 14GA wire in the auto stereo department at my local Wal-Mart for around $12.


----------



## bdizzle

before reading this i went ahead and bought the 50 foot roll. right now im literally gonna need about 10ft max considering im only gonna have 2 speakers that are placed really close to the receiver, but i figure i can just save it for later. i'm getting really excited about everything though. im glad i didn't go the htib route because im learning a lot about audio in the process, and i know im getting exactly what i want.


----------



## vgauri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It will draw more current, but a single speaker won't hurt much. My son's got this speaker matched with R30s. It's been noted before, no one's had a problem yet.




I seem to be the first one then







. I hooked up the CSi25 with my R300s up front and things worked great for a few days. Yesterday had some folks over to watch a movie and when I turned on my new setup, we could not hear any vocals. I investigated and looked like there was hardly any sound coming from the center. We watched the movie in 2 channel mode..which was a bummer.


I tested all connections, and ended up swapping out the center with an old phillips bookshelf I had lying around which had no trouble with the center channel sound.


It could be a defective speaker, I will try and return it to the internet seller. In any case I need to buy another center, and I was thinking of going with the CSM at CC, I am not sure if that would be a match to my Rs...any opinions?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vgauri* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I seem to be the first one then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I hooked up the CSi25 with my R300s up front and things worked great for a few days. Yesterday had some folks over to watch a movie and when I turned on my new setup, we could not hear any vocals. I investigated and looked like there was hardly any sound coming from the center. We watched the movie in 2 channel mode..which was a bummer.
> 
> 
> I tested all connections, and ended up swapping out the center with an old phillips bookshelf I had lying around which had no trouble with the center channel sound.
> 
> 
> It could be a defective speaker, I will try and return it to the internet seller. In any case I need to buy another center, and I was thinking of going with the CSM at CC, I am not sure if that would be a match to my Rs...any opinions?



Sorry to hear about your troubles...if you purchased from an authorized seller, Polk will honor the warranty. Their CS is topnotch. Glad it wasn't a channel...and since it wasn't, it probably had nothing to do with being a 4 ohm speaker. Generally, the AVR will be driven into protection, not drop a channel. I'd also pop the drivers and tweeter to see if a wire came loose.


The CSM/CSR are the same speaker, different cosmetics. I thought the CSi25 was identical too, but either the drivers or crossovers are different, since the specs say the CSR is an 8ohm speaker.


Good luck.


----------



## vgauri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about your troubles...if you purchased from an authorized seller, Polk will honor the warranty. Their CS is topnotch. Glad it wasn't a channel...and since it wasn't, it probably had nothing to do with being a 4 ohm speaker. Generally, the AVR will be driven into protection, not drop a channel. I'd also pop the drivers and tweeter to see if a wire came loose.
> 
> 
> The CSM/CSR are the same speaker, different cosmetics. I thought the CSi25 was identical too, but either the drivers or crossovers are different, since the specs say the CSR is an 8ohm speaker.
> 
> 
> Good luck.



Thanks, Ron. The seller is an authorized Polk dealer, will follow up. I will also take your advice and check for loose wires.


----------



## bmeans5061

First off the thread is GREAT! Purchased Panny 42" Plasma and want to add nice sound system. I am not sure HDMI is necessary for sound quality? I have read and re-read entire thread many times for ideas and possible pricing. (Many Hours) The more I read the more confused I get.


My original idea is for a 3.1 set-up. 75% TV/25% Music. Budget started at $400 but has grown to whatever within reason. My thoughts:


Buy a HK AVR from E-bay depending on price 235/240/ or a 340 if I can get for $200 as an earlier poster.


BIC-H100 Sub on E-Bay (I am patient hopefully $225)


Speakers would be Polk150 ($50 pair) Front with CS1 (? Maybe a Sale) Center or Athena B-1.2 Front ($100 pair) with C-1.2 center ($100). Which would sound better.


If I go 5.1 would just buy 4 of whichever. Will 3.1 sound OK. A lot of TV viewing is late night with headphones. But want nice stereo option for house. Room is 15 X 20. Tv sets in a corner. Bookshelf speakers most likely on pedastals. I may consider R50 fronts if go on sale. The Polk and Athena's seem economical for a start. I can always upgrade.


Your thoughts and suggestions appreciated. I am in no hurry. I am comfortable with running wires and installing speakers. May even put two on side wall mount if go 5.1. However, I am worried about setup of receiver and speaker once installed. Is calibration HARD!


Sorry for the long post. THANKS


Will continue to lurk for advise and sale prices posted.


To complete the setup I have considered the Toshiba A-2 dvd player. Am I dumb for wanting a HK receiver or should I save money and go with Onkyo.


----------



## buzzy_

FYI Polk RTis anc CSis on sale at One Call, maybe elsewhere. Ron has commented in the past on the RTi4s so maybe he or someone can comment on what looks good here: link


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I saw a roll of 14GA wire in the auto stereo department at my local Wal-Mart for around $12.



Good point, the auto section is a good place to look too, especially if you want black wire.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI Polk RTis anc CSis on sale at One Call, maybe elsewhere. Ron has commented in the past on the RTi4s so maybe he or someone can comment on what looks good here: link



The RTis are being replaced by the RTiAs shortly and there will be some smoking deals on the older line. The bookshelf prices are for pairs, the floorstanders/ea. I heard that Crutchfield was doing the same thing, but checking this morning, the prices aren't quite as aggressive as *******. If you have a Frys in your area, keep a lookout...in June they offered RTi8s for $400/pair, RTi12s for $700/pair. I know this is out of the budget range for many of you, but the RTis are excellent HT speakers, very dynamic and detailed and a bargain at their full MSRP. Start saving your pennies...


Good find buzzy_


----------



## bmeans5061




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmeans5061* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off the thread is GREAT! Purchased Panny 42" Plasma and want to add nice sound system. I am not sure HDMI is necessary for sound quality? I have read and re-read entire thread many times for ideas and possible pricing. (Many Hours) The more I read the more confused I get.
> 
> 
> My original idea is for a 3.1 set-up. 75% TV/25% Music. Budget started at $400 but has grown to whatever within reason. My thoughts:
> 
> 
> Buy a HK AVR from E-bay depending on price 235/240/ or a 340 if I can get for $200 as an earlier poster.
> 
> 
> BIC-H100 Sub on E-Bay (I am patient hopefully $225)
> 
> 
> Speakers would be Polk150 ($50 pair) Front with CS1 (? Maybe a Sale) Center or Athena B-1.2 Front ($100 pair) with C-1.2 center ($100). Which would sound better.
> 
> 
> If I go 5.1 would just buy 4 of whichever. Will 3.1 sound OK. A lot of TV viewing is late night with headphones. But want nice stereo option for house. Room is 15 X 20. Tv sets in a corner. Bookshelf speakers most likely on pedastals. I may consider R50 fronts if go on sale. The Polk and Athena's seem economical for a start. I can always upgrade.
> 
> 
> Your thoughts and suggestions appreciated. I am in no hurry. I am comfortable with running wires and installing speakers. May even put two on side wall mount if go 5.1. However, I am worried about setup of receiver and speaker once installed. Is calibration HARD!
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long post. THANKS
> 
> 
> Will continue to lurk for advise and sale prices posted.
> 
> 
> To complete the setup I have considered the Toshiba A-2 dvd player. Am I dumb for wanting a HK receiver or should I save money and go with Onkyo.



All Comments Welcome!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmeans5061* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All Comments Welcome!



tomorrow....too tired tonight...


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmeans5061* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All Comments Welcome!



well, you're asking a lot that has been covered extensively before, but here goes. the H/K will offer more flexibility and power than the onkyo with a different sound, but is also more expensive. a 

the athenas and polks are in the same ballpark in terms of SQ, but will sound different. can't go wrong with either, though i will say from personal experience that the athenas are great if you like bright, detailed mids and highs.


the Bic H-100 is a good budget sub. if budget is a concern, start with 2.1 or 3.1 and expand as your budget allows....it'll sound great right off the bat...much better than your TV. calibration isn't too difficult once you get your hands on an SPL meter. there's a link to calibration FAQ in the first post of this thread.


good luck.


----------



## afrogt

personally I think the Athenas sound better that the Polk 150s.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> personally I think the Athenas sound better that the Polk 150s.



Though I haven't heard the Athenas, I'm going to agree.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Though I haven't heard the Athenas, I'm going to agree.



if you guys say so...i've never heard the R150's in person, so i didn't want to get too specific. i will say that the athena B1.2's are a great deal at $99 a pair...solidly constructed, very detailed, and more than enough beef in the midrange, especially when complimented with a good sub.


for those on the fence, now is a good time to jump in with the closeout deals on audioadvisor....$200 for the front L/C/R is a deal that doesn't come around too often. last time was during the closeout of the original audition series almost two years ago, and it sounds like once they're gone this time, that's it.


----------



## Kex

Hi everyone! I am very happy to have found this thread! Here is what I am at:


1) We have a Yamaha Stereo Receiver RX-395.
http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi...AVR00010RX-395 


2) We have four Polk speakers (look like R10s, I am not sure exactly).


3) I looked at the Radio Shack deal on a Yamaha HTIB for $150 that got me thinking.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family 


4) Went to the store and thought it felt kinda cheap (the Yamaha, and the speakers).

*So ... what would you guys do?* I was thinking of getting the Yamaha HTIB and using the sub and center speakers along with the 4 Polks we already have, but after reading a few pages of this thread, I have my doubts. Let's just say I do not want to spend $500 all at once right now. Should I:


a) Go ahead and get the Yamaha YHT-170, use the Polks and the HTIB sub & center?


b) Get a 5.1 receiver and use the 4 Polks and then plan to get the sub & center later?


c) Do neither of the above until I can afford to buy a sub & center as well as a new receiver?


d) Any combination of the above or any other options?


Any thoughts?


----------



## Jakeman02

Kex


The Yamaha YHT-170 you linked from RS comes with the HTR-5920 receiver which is a good budget receiver and you won't do any better with just buying the receiver at that price, providing you're not planning on going to a 7 speaker setup in the future, which imo on a budget is a waste.


I'd go ahead and purchase the system and forget about using the center with the polks. They won't match tonally and you're much better off doing without a center until you can get a closer match. In the receiver settings you can set the center speaker to "NO" and it will give you a phantom center effect which works much better than going with an unmatched substandard center speakers.


I'd go for option B using the Receiver from the package and the 4 polks. Once you get that set up I'd ebay the speakers/ sub that came in the package as a combo and recoup some of your purchase price. That's the route I took with my Onkyo HTIB system and was suprised by what I got for the package.


If you're not planning on using your Yammy 2 channel somewhere else I'd also ebay it.


After that you surely would have enough to get the matching center, or a good quality budget powered sub.


Matching center is probably going to run you $100 or less if you can find a deal and the 2 best choices for a good budget sub are the Bic H-100 or the x-sub from av-123. Both will run about $200 plus shipping.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... I'd go ahead and purchase the system and forget about using the center with the polks. They won't match tonally and you're much better off doing without a center until you can get a closer match ...



In the short term, am I right in assuming that:


1) The Yamaha HTR-5920 with 4 Polks will sound better than the old RX-395:

. For Stereo CD playback?

. For DVD movie playback?


2) The Yamaha HTR-5920 will sound better with 4 Polks, no center or sub, than with the set of 5.1 speakers the unit came with in the YHT-170 package?


3) Which is more important to get first, the missing center, or the missing sub?


----------



## Jakeman02

Kex


Both receivers will sound better with the polks than the HTIB speakers. The speakers and sub are the weakest link in these systems.


Weather or not one receiver will sound better than the other I nor anyone can answer. My guess is with the avr in 2 channel straight mode they will be similar. watching dvds in surround will be a big difference for dvd and other video.


As far as which to upgrade first. You'll be able to use the phantom center effect from the receiver so I'd go for the sub, that will make a huge difference for movies. No matter what size the speakers are they aren't made to preform at low frequencies like a quality sub. However if you find a deal in the mean time on one or the other, go for it.


----------



## Kex

Well, I am out of luck with the Yamaha from Radio Shack: they are out of stock. I might try a few more stores that are within a short distance from here in case they have one.


Otherwise, I am assuming that, since I was going to use our existing Polk speakers anyway, I could just choose a different receiver. Any 5.1 receiver suggestions under $200?


----------



## afrogt

How about the Onkyo 504? Free shipping from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance 


It also does 7.1 but if you only want 5.1, just hook up 5 speakers. Mine is only connected for 5.1 speakers.


Since you're in Santa Monica, also check your local Fry's store. You might find the 504 receiver on clearance there since its been replaced by the 505.


----------



## bmeans5061

Thanks for all the help! Just purchased HK AVR 340 on ebay from harmon direct. Be patient and will get


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How about the Onkyo 504? Free shipping from Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance
> 
> 
> It also does 7.1 but if you only want 5.1, just hook up 5 speakers. Mine is only connected for 5.1 speakers.
> 
> 
> Since you're in Santa Monica, also check your local Fry's store. You might find the 504 receiver on clearance there since its been replaced by the 505.



These are all great suggestions *afrogt* and *Jakeman02*, I really appreciate your help! I love the look of the Onkyo (it doesn't look as "cheap" as the Yamaha to me: similar finish quality to our current stereo Yamaha receiver). This is probably a stupid question, so feel free to give me a stupid answer if I deserve it, but how big a deal is:


- 7.1 instead of 5.1?

- Video inputs/outputs (S-video our component instead of composite for example)?


I ask the first question because ... I have no idea! I ask the second question because I think the Onkyo has S-video and component, whereas the Yamaha included in the YHT-170 only has composite (I might be wrong about that).


----------



## Jakeman02

7.1 vs 5.1 is only an issue if you have a larger room size that would warrant a 7.1 system. It's not going to give you any different effect as there isn't any 7.1 discrete recordings. All it will do is let the receiver send the sound to the two rear speakers. If you've got the room for it to be set up properly and a budget for two extra speakers it can be a +. On a budget however where people are scrambling to get the best equipment they can for the price I think it's a waste, there are alot more things that will enhance the experience more and where the money should be spend.


Component will give you extra bandwith as opposed to s-vid or composite allowing for more resolution, up to 1080i if I'm not mistaken. Not many people use s-vid or composite for video anymore unless you have vcr or an older tv. I still use it on one of my systems with my older Panasonic TANK tubed tv that won't die, but I'm in the dark ages lol.


----------



## buzzy_

My 2 cents, going from 3.1 to 5.1 doesn't add that much, so no point in worrying about 7.1 right away.


----------



## Kex

Thanks guys, you have me convinced. I am going to stick with 5.1. I have the 4 Polks so I will only need the center and the sub and I have good suggestions for both, as well as a good idea about what kind of receiver I want now, thanks to this forum.


If I give myself six months to sort this out, would I be better advised to wait for better deals (do the best deals mostly appear before or after Thanksgiving or Christmas, for example), or are some of the deals available now as good as anything I am going to get?


----------



## Jakeman02

you may see a few holiday deals on speakers and maybe sub but for the most part they don't vary that much, unless we're talking about frys price drops on polk lol. Receivers constantly come down due to new models being released more and more. So Id advice getting the speakers and sub first then look for a receiver, should get a better deal on it that way.


----------



## buzzy_

Now is as good a time as any if you can use the gear and have the money. Try to figure out what you want and what works and look for / wait for a deal on that. That's the key to getting real value - knowing what you need so that you get the right thing.


----------



## Decius

Wow awesome guide. Thanks. Will be using to replace my current HTiB.


----------



## camaroz06

Hi guys,

I am moving into an apartment (room will be 17x12? i think, cannot be too loud) and I am looking for a nice (under $500, maybe a bit more) 5.1 system. I have posted a post looking for recomandations on an all in one box solution and I would like to know what you guys can put together for me. This is going to be paired with a brand new 60inch XBR2, PS3, 360, and Wii (the speakers are mostly for the PS3, 360, games, and movies) Anyways, can you guys make something better for $500 then what I could buy in one box?


Thanks,

Eddie


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am moving into an apartment (room will be 17x12? i think, cannot be too loud) and I am looking for a nice (under $500, maybe a bit more) 5.1 system. I have posted a post looking for recomandations on an all in one box solution and I would like to know what you guys can put together for me. This is going to be paired with a brand new 60inch XBR2, PS3, 360, and Wii (the speakers are mostly for the PS3, 360, games, and movies) Anyways, can you guys make something better for $500 then what I could buy in one box?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eddie



500$ is pretty slim for trying to put together a complete 5.1 system.


If you look back at the first post in the thread you can get most of the common recommendations.


Polk r150's 50$ a pair, 100 for fronts and surrounds.

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


Polk CSR center channel 100$

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tZeGcXk...w.asp?i=107CSR 


That leaves 300$ for the sub and the amp which kinda gets problematic.


You can try a dayton sub for a fairly cheap sub but they don't seem to be too well liked anymore at around 125$.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-633 


That would leave about 175$ for a receiver which is once again gonna be tight.


You can check the HK store and hope to get lucky on a receiver


EBay links tend to get eaten by the forums so just search for Harman Kardon on ebay and it should be easy to find the store.


or watch www.shoponkyo.com for deals on refurbs.


I think most people here would recommend either increasing your budget if you can or buying it a bit at a time. 500$ can pick up a pretty nice 2.1 setup with a decent sub, amp and pair of bookshelf speakers. You can then get the center channel and a nice pair of floorstanding speakers. You don't have to match the front and center speakers to the surround speakers but it is preferable if possible. The front 3 should be matched pretty closely. If for example you started out with the polk 150's you could pick up the center that matched them when you saw it on sale and then later pick up the r300 floorstanding speakers that frys seems to put on sale periodically and move the 150s to the surrounds.


Going with the 4 polk 150's from frys, the csr center from crutchfield and a good sub and amp your probably going to want at least 600$ to spend. Most of the really recommended subs seem to be 200-250$ and since the onkyo 504 refurbs seem to be gone for the shoponkyo.com right now at least you'd be looking at ~225-250 for something simular.


Personally I'm building my system in peices since I don't wanna spend 600+$ all at once. I'm starting with a HK 340 amp from the HK store on ebay and a pair of bookshelf speakers to get away from having to use my tv's speakers. I've got an old pair of speakers that I've used as surrounds before that I'll probably use for a while. I'll add a center channel, sub and matching surrounds or upgraded fronts and move the book shelfs to surrounds as I get the money and find the deals.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am moving into an apartment (room will be 17x12? i think, cannot be too loud) and I am looking for a nice (under $500, maybe a bit more) 5.1 system. I have posted a post looking for recomandations on an all in one box solution and I would like to know what you guys can put together for me. This is going to be paired with a brand new 60inch XBR2, PS3, 360, and Wii (the speakers are mostly for the PS3, 360, games, and movies) Anyways, can you guys make something better for $500 then what I could buy in one box?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eddie



Look for the Onkyo 303 or 304 refurb from shoponkyo.com or accessories4.less.com, then the Polk r150s from outpost.com/frys , CS1 Center speaker from crutchfield and either the Bic H-100 or AV123 xsub which is backordered right now.


Should be able to get that package right at $500. The speakers and sub would blow an HTIB package away, receiver will be comparable to the receiver in the Onkyo 590/600 package.


----------



## bmeans5061

Thanks again all. I can't wait to get it all hooked up. The following are on the way.


HK AVR 340 (harman direct 230 shipped)

Athena BS-1.2 CS-1.2 (Audio Advisor Sale)

BIC-H100 (Sound Distributors e-bay 239 shipped)


My budget HTIB of $400 got blown away after reading this forum, but would rather have a nice upgradable system than waste $400 on HTIB.


Thanks


PS: I have searched and can't find the link on CALIBRATION FAQ!


----------



## afrogt

You're HK 340 has a very good auto-EQ calibration feature. Try using that first.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmeans5061* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have searched and can't find the link on CALIBRATION FAQ!



nice budget setup. the link given in the first post to follow is:

*AVS Master Thread for Setting up your Home Theater*
Setting Up Your Home Theatre 101 


there's links to calibration under speakers/subwoofers in that thread.


----------



## beernbooks

I'm definitely looking for an alternative to HTIB, but also with the ease of having everything to put together at once.


With this in mind, I've read this entire thread - skimmed lots of course...


f I pick up a good HK receiver off of Ebay like I'm planning, is it better to pick up a speaker set like the KEF from CC: KEF Home Theater Speaker System (KHT2005IIMP) KEF KHT2005IIMP for $499


Or piece things together like 2 separate fronts, 2 rears, and a nice sub. I don't mind piecing it together separately, but there also seems to be something for having the speakers match sound-wise.


I'm not looking to skimp on the price of the speakers, but I'm not wanting to blow a ton either. It's also important to be able to wall-mount which is why I've looked at some of the matched sets. I also looked at some of the Athenas. Are they good enough quality to be satisfied for a year or two?


Mainly Movies and Video Games....


Thanks for the input - I've enjoyed shopping on the links that everyone has provided - I'm just wanting to finally make up my mind and put it together.


----------



## beernbooks

Oh yeah - hate replying to my own post - I know it's a bad thing.


But, I've been looking at Circuit City - because I can get a discount there. anyway, they have a sale on Boston Acoustics CR67 ($119) and I've heard from a friend that they hold up well. Would that be something sufficient to be front surrounds? Rear?.


Thanks again.


----------



## bdizzle

quick question guys. i have a 2.0 setup (polk r150's) connected to an onkyo 604 avr. right now the only way i can use both speakers is to have 1 speaker hooked up to the center channel and another to one of the front surround channels. is there a way to get 2.0 out of this thing and still use the pcm track on my blu-ray movies?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> quick question guys. i have a 2.0 setup (polk r150's) connected to an onkyo 604 avr. right now the only way i can use both speakers is to have 1 speaker hooked up to the center channel and another to one of the front surround channels. is there a way to get 2.0 out of this thing and still use the pcm track on my blu-ray movies?



Wow, I'm totally lost on this. Why in the world would you have one speaker connected as a center and the other to the front surround channels?


If you only have two speakers, go thru the setup and turn the center to OFF/NONE and all the surrounds to OFF/NONE. Then connect your speakers to the Front left and right terminals.


If you run the Audyssey setup (page 38) it should automatically configure your speakers by detecting which ones are plugged in.


You are definitely connecting your speakers incorrectly.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, I'm totally lost on this. Why in the world would you have one speaker connected as a center and the other to the front surround channels?
> 
> 
> If you only have two speakers, go thru the setup and turn the center to OFF/NONE and all the surrounds to OFF/NONE. Then connect your speakers to the Front left and right terminals.
> 
> 
> You are definitely connecting your speakers wrong.



For some reason the music from The Twilight Zone just started playing in my head.


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, I'm totally lost on this. Why in the world would you have one speaker connected as a center and the other to the front surround channels?
> 
> 
> If you only have two speakers, go thru the setup and turn the center to OFF/NONE and all the surrounds to OFF/NONE. Then connect your speakers to the Front left and right terminals.
> 
> 
> If you run the Audyssey setup (page 38) it should automatically configure your speakers by detecting which ones are plugged in.
> 
> 
> You are definitely connecting your speakers incorrectly.



none of what you said made any sense.............................


a friend came over and set it up for me. this is my first receiver/audio setup so i was totally lost.


thanks tho


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> none of what you said made any sense.............................
> 
> 
> a friend came over and set it up for me. this is my first receiver/audio setup so i was totally lost.
> 
> 
> thanks tho



If you're just using 2 speakers with the receiver connect them to the Front Left & Front Right speaker terminals making sure you have the - side on the speaker going to the - on the receiver, same for the +.


Then go into your speaker setup menu on your receiver, the manual will instruct you on this. Set your Front Speakers to "Large", Center to "Off or None" and Surrounds to "Off or None"


PS....don't call your friend for any audio setup advice.


Using just 2 speakers you shouldn't have any connected to the Center or Surrounds, just the Front Left and Right.


----------



## pgh_hd_aholic

Posted as a new thread, but meant for this thread, sorry for the duplicate post...


Anyway, been lurking for a while - have to say, this thread is awesome!


My situation: I currently own a Pioneer xv-htd530 HTIB ("600 watt" system), that is about 4 years old. I think it sounds decent (for watching movies), but after reading through this thread, I am wanting to upgrade, but will have to do it in stages.


My biggest gripe right now is the passive sub that came with the system, it sounds ok untill you get to a part of a movie with major action and deep bass - it starts vibrating and sounding horrible. I was going to make the sub my first new purchase, looking at a x-sub or possible bic H-100.


My question is, my Pioneer HTIB receiver does not have an RCA type (LFE ?)output for the sub, the current sub is connected via regular speaker wire, so would I be missing out on quality if I would hook up a powered sub using regular audio out RCA connectors on the receiver? Or does anyone know if there is a cable that would connect using regular speaker wire to my receiver, but then have the single RCA type connector to plug into the sub?


Or, would I be better starting with a new receiver first, so I can get one with an actual "LFE" or subwoofer single rca out? I was really hoping to replace the receiver last after the sub and speakers, but am not 100% opposed to doing the receiver first.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## evan_s

Well you can't just connect the sub to any old rca output on the receiver and expect it to work properly. If you don't have an rca out labeled sub or LFE your going to have to use the speaker wires your using for your current sub. I couldn't find the info on the Bic but the X-sub does have high level inputs designed to work with the speaker cable like you are currently using. I'm sure someone can pipe in about the bic but it most likely has high level inputs too.


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're just using 2 speakers with the receiver connect them to the Front Left & Front Right speaker terminals making sure you have the - side on the speaker going to the - on the receiver, same for the +.
> 
> 
> Then go into your speaker setup menu on your receiver, the manual will instruct you on this. Set your Front Speakers to "Large", Center to "Off or None" and Surrounds to "Off or None"
> 
> 
> PS....don't call your friend for any audio setup advice.
> 
> 
> Using just 2 speakers you shouldn't have any connected to the Center or Surrounds, just the Front Left and Right.



why shouldn't i call him? i didnt know what i was doing, he came over, got everything working for me.


----------



## Florida_Gator

I wanted to stop in here to thank everyone that has contributed to this fantastic thread!


I came to AVS seeking owner opinion/feedback on various HTiB systems, as well as sat/sub sets (thinking $500 or so, one way or the other). Been using some cheap (crappy) sats from an old (10-12 years) HTiB system, and an old (8-9 years) HK AVR100 with a blown front channel (yikes). So I had some work to do to make the sound system worthy of our new 50" HDTV (not to mention the kids' PS3, heh heh)...


After reading this thread, I relized I could do MUCH better than most HTiB systems, and get better sound than most sat/sub sets, for similar money (partly because I already have a subwoofer).


So here's what I ended up with -- I have the speakers, and should have the receiver in a few days:


Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR505

Mains: (2) Polk R50

Center: Polk CSR

Surrounds: (2) Polk R150

Powered Sub: Polk (8" or 10" -- not sure -- I've had it a while, but it works fine)


After listening to "full size" speakers, I knew that was the way I wanted to go. Some of the sat/sub sets I tried were very nice, but the full (less localized) sound of the larger speakers felt "warmer", especially at lower volumes.


All of the above (again, I already had the sub) only set me back about $600 by careful shopping.


Thanks everyone -- fantastic tips and insight here. I can't wait for opening night!


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> why shouldn't i call him? i didnt know what i was doing, he came over, got everything working for me.



Because he set it up wrong and didn't get everything working for you. If he had you wouldn't be coming here and asking why things aren't working right.


----------



## nombrecinq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I owned the entry level Polks R50s, 15s and a CSi3...I've heard the SBS package and the x-ls bookshelves (2channel).
> 
> 
> The x-ls books are extremely interesting if you like to listen to music...they are very warm, detailed, very wide soundstage (outside the speakers), exceptional bass for a book and the highs are detailed, yet rolled off, so they are never harsh. If you like Diana Krall or Sarah McGlaughlin(sp)...they really shine.
> 
> 
> The SVS SBS package is very neutral, detailed, very good imaging and matched with the sub deliver a phenomenal soundstage from top to bottom. A great sub makes the HT experience and the PB10 competes with many subs that cost $1000 or more. If you haven't experienced it, you don't know how much better the experience gets. The Bics and x-subs that get talked about here do a great job of opening the door. The PB10 is just...Wow (in reasonably sized rooms
> 
> The Polks are great all rounders...it's not apple and oranges...the R50s are floorstanders and throw a deep and wide midrange, the tweets are detailed, but not as refined, the R150s match, the CSi25/CSR match...all in all, nearly everyone who's owned them loves them...until they want to upgrade to something far more expensive...then they have to listen to a lot of speakers that are better, but not that much better to justify the cost.
> 
> 
> If you haven't guessed, I've rated them top to bottom. If I were piecing it together and had to choose between these sets (and had the money), I'd get the x-series speakers (I'm a music guy) and the SVS sub. If I needed to stay in your budget, I'd go with the SVS package and wonder what I was missing.
> 
> 
> Since I'm me...I've gone through 6 or 7 subs...3 receiver brands...3 amps...and settled on vintage speakers that aren't touchable, but have very low WAF.



Is there any reason why I should consider the 12" SVS sub? I'm just worried about painting myself into a corner by getting a smaller one. I have a living room that's not very big, but soon enough I'll have a bigger place. I like the recommendation of the X-series books and the SVS, sounds like a good combo.


----------



## Nightman116

Just saw on Frys.com that the R300 and the R50 are on sale. I've heard good things about the R300, but compared to the R50, which one is better? This will make my decision on the front speakers. Surround will still be the R150 and center will be the CSR(can't find the CSi25 anywhere cheap)


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nightman116* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just saw on Frys.com that the R300 and the R50 are on sale. I've heard good things about the R300, but compared to the R50, which one is better? This will make my decision on the front speakers. Surround will still be the R150 and center will be the CSR(can't find the CSi25 anywhere cheap)



This was (part of) the careful shopping I was refering to, in my post above.










Most people that have both say the R50 has a little fuller sound than the R300, thanks to having additional mid-range drivers. All I know is, coupled with the CSR, they make a fantastic front sound-stage. If you can find a place that has them, go and listen to them.


One thing to keep in mind though--the R50s are cherry (not black). I actually prefer that look, but if you MUST have black to match the other speakers, then go with the R300s.


At those loss-leader prices, it's VERY tempting to grab another pair and turn my 5.1 setup into a 7.1 setup... but I'm already halfway in the doghouse as it is!


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evan_s* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Because he set it up wrong and didn't get everything working for you. If he had you wouldn't be coming here and asking why things aren't working right.



no, he set it up right. i posted the message on here before calling him. he came over, fixed the problem then left. lets just drop the subject cause it has nothing to do w/ the thread


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> no, he set it up right. i posted the message on here before calling him. he came over, fixed the problem then left. lets just drop the subject cause it has nothing to do w/ the thread



Ah, Your post gave no indication that the issue was fixed by your friend or fixed at all and he was not the one who set it up that way originally. If everything is working fine now thats great and it sounds like calling him was a good idea =)


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why I should consider the 12" SVS sub? I'm just worried about painting myself into a corner by getting a smaller one. I have a living room that's not very big, but soon enough I'll have a bigger place. I like the recommendation of the X-series books and the SVS, sounds like a good combo.



The PB12NSD or any of the cylinders will be a substantial upgrade in headroom and SPL over the PB10. This translates to better SQ at high volumes in larger rooms where the PB10s limiters kick in. So if you go with the larger woof, you are future proofing a bit.


I think you'll like the x-ls/SVS combo. Hopefully, they are getting caught up on inventory.


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evan_s* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ah, Your post gave no indication that the issue was fixed by your friend or fixed at all and he was not the one who set it up that way originally. If everything is working fine now thats great and it sounds like calling him was a good idea =)



my bad guess i worded it wrong. everythings ok now.


i have another question though. 2.0 is nice, but i'm not sure what to get next. should i get the sub, center, or two r50's for the fronts (got 150's right now)? i get paid friday so i wanted to pick up another component. i'm leaning towards getting the r50's tho...


EDIT: Can anyone recommend some cheap stands for the polk r150s?


----------



## nombrecinq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The PB12NSD or any of the cylinders will be a substantial upgrade in headroom and SPL over the PB10. This translates to better SQ at high volumes in larger rooms where the PB10s limiters kick in. So if you go with the larger woof, you are future proofing a bit.
> 
> 
> I think you'll like the x-ls/SVS combo. Hopefully, they are getting caught up on inventory.



I currently have a Yamaha RXV995 receiver from years ago, and a pair of Klipsch SB-1 books. I'm thinking that maybe I should just buy a sub for now so I can start listening to music and watching movies, and then later replace the mains and get a center. Does the SVS stuff ever go on sale? I think I want to get the 12" but I don't like the idea of shelling out $600 for it.


----------



## afrogt

Not sure what you consider cheap after paying $50 for the r150s but these can be had for $45/pr with free shipping
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...6598482&sr=8-4 


The Polk R50's are on sale for $69ea. They come in cherry though.
http://shop3.outpost.com/ShopCartSer...rchase=4005092 


I think your next purchase should be a subwoofer if you have the money.


----------



## camaroz06

Hi All,

How do the Polk r50's compare to the AV123 x-ls Bookshelf speakers? Are the x-ls speakers in another league?


Thanks,

Eddie


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my bad guess i worded it wrong. everythings ok now.
> 
> 
> i have another question though. 2.0 is nice, but i'm not sure what to get next. should i get the sub, center, or two r50's for the fronts (got 150's right now)? i get paid friday so i wanted to pick up another component. i'm leaning towards getting the r50's tho...
> 
> 
> EDIT: Can anyone recommend some cheap stands for the polk r150s?




the r300's are on sale too. Only a single 6.5 inch speaker so probably won't get as low in the bass but they are a bit cheaper and in black to match the r150's

http://shop3.outpost.com/ShopCartSer...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently have a Yamaha RXV995 receiver from years ago, and a pair of Klipsch SB-1 books. I'm thinking that maybe I should just buy a sub for now so I can start listening to music and watching movies, and then later replace the mains and get a center. Does the SVS stuff ever go on sale? I think I want to get the 12" but I don't like the idea of shelling out $600 for it.



B stock or used...even $600 is a bargain.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> How do the Polk r50's compare to the AV123 x-ls Bookshelf speakers? Are the x-ls speakers in another league?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eddie



The R50 is a well rounded floorstander and does a good job with both music and movies. The x-series are a more refined and laid back speaker. It's not in another class, but it is an upgrade in imaging and throws a huge soundstage for a pair of books. The R50s will dig deeper and have more depth. So it's kind of apples and oranges. If you are a music first guy, the the x-series is what you should aim at. If not, save some money and go with the Rs.


----------



## camaroz06




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The R50 is a well rounded floorstander and does a good job with both music and movies. The x-series are a more refined and laid back speaker. It's not in another class, but it is an upgrade in imaging and throws a huge soundstage for a pair of books. The R50s will dig deeper and have more depth. So it's kind of apples and oranges. If you are a music first guy, the the x-series is what you should aim at. If not, save some money and go with the Rs.



Thanks for the advice Ron,

I do like to listen to music often but not more then movies/games. The price shipped are pretty close together...so I am having a HARD time!!! Lol, I guess anything I do buy though will sound better then my Logitech Z-5500 computer speakers I have had hooked up to my Xbox360.


Tell me if this makes sense to you:


Would a good sub like the SVS (lower end) make you move more towards the x-series?


Cheaper sub then the SVS, move more towards the Polks?


Mind you I have never really had a great sound system, best would be the Z-5500's. So I doubt I would miss much with the x-series.


Is the onkyo 604 a nice match for the Polks (and x-series)?


THanks again!!!!

Eddie


P.S. for those that have the polks what do your significant others think about the style of them.........I think I might already be pushing the HT setup with the 60inch xbr2 I just got


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure what you consider cheap after paying $50 for the r150s but these can be had for $45/pr with free shipping
> http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...6598482&sr=8-4
> 
> 
> The Polk R50's are on sale for $69ea. They come in cherry though.
> http://shop3.outpost.com/ShopCartSer...rchase=4005092
> 
> 
> I think your next purchase should be a subwoofer if you have the money.



ya, that's too much for me for these cheap speakers. ive seen some on amazon for like 20/pair, but the reviews were iffy on a couple of them. i was planning on getting the r50s from frys since they're definately the cheapest. i think the subs gonna def be the last peice im gonna get. i live in an apt, so im not planning on shaking the walls or anything like that, and ive never really liked overpowering subs. on my pc speakers, i usually turn the bass down as low as possible when listening to music or watching tv/movies.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the onkyo 604 a nice match for the Polks (and x-series)?



i just got the 604 hooked up to the r150's yesterday and so far they seem like a good match. dialog is clear and there's no crackling or popping at higher volumes. the only "issue" i have is while uncompressed audio sounds good, its not easy to differentiate between pcm and regular dolby. the speakers are 50/pair, so i was never expecting miracles with em. hopefully the r50's will make the audio exp better.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice Ron,
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me if this makes sense to you:
> 
> 
> Would a good sub like the SVS (lower end) make you move more towards the x-series?
> 
> 
> Cheaper sub then the SVS, move more towards the Polks?



I'm the wrong guy to ask. I've been through several budget and decent retail subs. Once you've moved into the SVS/Hsu or now eD (probably), you won't want to match any speaker combo with less whether Polk or x-series. A good budget sub will sound great, a capable sub (linear through the bandpass from 16-80hz at high SPL) will sound fantastic. If you want to delay taking that step, start with a nice Bic or the x-sub with either speaker set and you will still be very happy.



> Quote:
> Is the onkyo 604 a nice match for the Polks (and x-series)?
> 
> 
> THanks again!!!!
> 
> Eddie
> 
> 
> P.S. for those that have the polks what do your significant others think about the style of them.........I think I might already be pushing the HT setup with the 60inch xbr2 I just got



The 604 is fine...the cherry Polks are pretty, but the (expensive) custom finishes on the x-series have very high WAF. I never listen to my wife







.


----------



## mbaxter

Specs-wise these look like a hell of a deal:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...oductDetail.do 


8" woofer, 3.25" cone, 1" tweeter, good size wood cabinet. $80 for a pair of these.


I went to CC today to listen to these but they're not in the stores anymore (online only). This appears to be a discontinued item.


Any thoughts on these? I was going to post this question in the speakers forum but thought better of it - they'd rip me a new one for even thinking about these. First of all these speakers are not $200+ each, which automatically means they're garbage, and worse still --- they're made by Sony!!!!!


----------



## rafiks

Hi! I am planning to add a sub-woofer to my set-up. Already have receiver (Onkyo 504) and Front Speakers (R50's),pretty much much satisfied with it ,now I want to a decent sub. I am looking at the Bic but I noticed that audioadvisor has a sale on an Athena sub .Has anybody tried this sub before? I didn't see this on the recommended list.


I also read the spec sheets,the athena is down firing while the bic is front firing. What does this mean? Absolute newbie here..


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So here's what I ended up with -- I have the speakers, and should have the receiver in a few days:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR505
> 
> Mains: (2) Polk R50
> 
> Center: Polk CSR
> 
> Surrounds: (2) Polk R150
> 
> Powered Sub: Polk (8" or 10" -- not sure -- I've had it a while, but it works fine)



Hi,

Where did you get the Polk CSR? Did you get them online?

I can't find them on ebay, I can only find the CSi25. Which is better?

Thanks


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Where did you get the Polk CSR? Did you get them online?
> 
> I can't find them on ebay, I can only find the CSi25. Which is better?
> 
> Thanks



I got the CSR from Crutchfield (best price I found, and they're a good vendor).


Which is better? Dunno; I bought the CSR because it's voice-matched with the R-series speakers from Polk. It has a nice, deep sound (not muddy-deep, but full). They both retail for $199, their specs are very similar, so they probably sound a lot alike.


It was important to me to get speakers that "match" -- not just in general looks, but also in sound. If you have R-series speakers, I would recommend the CSR over the CSi25, but even better, see if you can find a place to test them (since all that really matters is how different speakers sound to YOU). I went the whole R-series route after hearing (and liking) the R50s in a store... lucky for me, you can get them on sale pretty often by shopping around.


Good luck,


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *camaroz06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would a good sub like the SVS (lower end) make you move more towards the x-series?
> 
> 
> Cheaper sub then the SVS, move more towards the Polks?



i'd go for option #1 in a heartbeat. better SQ all around, and the added extension of an SVS-quality sub. best of both worlds, given proper calibration and blending of the speakers/sub...provided of course that it all fits within your budget.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got the CSR from Crutchfield (best price I found, and they're a good vendor).
> 
> 
> Which is better? Dunno; I bought the CSR because it's voice-matched with the R-series speakers from Polk. It has a nice, deep sound (not muddy-deep, but full). They both retail for $199, their specs are very similar, so they probably sound a lot alike.
> 
> 
> It was important to me to get speakers that "match" -- not just in general looks, but also in sound. If you have R-series speakers, I would recommend the CSR over the CSi25, but even better, see if you can find a place to test them (since all that really matters is how different speakers sound to YOU). I went the whole R-series route after hearing (and liking) the R50s in a store... lucky for me, you can get them on sale pretty often by shopping around.
> 
> 
> Good luck,



They have it going for $99 + $7 S/H at Crutchfield now. This may be my way to go and pair it with the R50. I also looked at the R300 but it seems that the R50 has higher ratings in this thread.

Thanks!


----------



## bearcat12480

Has anyone heard anything about the Yamaha NS-125 for fronts? I am also comparing these to the R300s (b/c you can only find the R50s in cherry and need black/silver). I was probably going to pair with an Onkyo 505 (future upgrade to 7.1 capable and auto calibration), R150s, and undetermined center (probably match fronts) and subwoofer. I kinda want to figure out the fronts before I get too attached to a center and sub. Thanks in advance for all your help!


----------



## chikka

Does anyone know which is the better Center speaker?

Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker

vs
Athena - LS-C50 Center Speaker

vs
Polk Audio CSR


They're all priced at around $99

Thanks


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know which is the better Center speaker?
> 
> Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker
> 
> vs
> Athena - LS-C50 Center Speaker
> 
> vs
> Polk Audio CSR
> 
> 
> They're all priced at around $99
> 
> Thanks




Generally speaking you want to match your center to your front speakers. So if you've got polks already for the fronts you want the polk CRS even if the athena's are better speakers for the money.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evan_s* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Generally speaking you want to match your center to your front speakers. So if you've got polks already for the fronts you want the polk CRS even if the athena's are better speakers for the money.



Thanks for the input. I actually plan on getting the same brand speakers for my fronts. I don't have anything right now and was planning on starting with the center channel (no apparent reason).

Here's my current setup:
*Receiver:*

Onkyo SR304 _(Got this receiver last night, watched Casino Royale and the difference was night and day from my Sony HT-DDW790 HTIB. I'm very happy with this choice. I got it for $89 from ShopOnkyo.com - Refurb)_
*Front:*

M&K Sattelite 1B _(these speakers are probably over 10 years old)_
*Center:*

Infinity CC2 Center Channel (purchased in 1998)
*Rear and Subwoofer:*

Came from my Sony HTDDW750 HTIB which is approx. 5 years old.

Here are my possible choices:
*Front/Center:*

Polk Audio R50 with Polk CSR OR

Athena - AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole with Athena Audition AS-C1.2 OR

Athena - LS-C50 Center Speaker with Athena Audition AS-C1.2

*Rear:*

Use my current front M&K speakers OR

Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers OR

Polk Audio R150 OR

Athena - LS-50 Bookshelf/Rear Speaker

*Subwoofer:*

Modify an old M&K Volkswoofer 1B as stated here 

BIC H-100

Dayton SUB-120 12" 150 Watt

AV123 X-SUB


A lot of the above are also driven by the cost. For example if I buy an expensive front set, I would probably get the cheapest subwoofer or rear based on my choices above.


Any input is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Chikka


----------



## Florida_Gator

I got my new Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver yesterday, so I got to test it some last night. I only have the Polk R50 (fronts), Polk CSR (center), and subwoofer hooked up so far (have Polk R150s for surround, but haven't hooked them up yet).


Wow.


Fantastic. The speakers match so well, that the front "sound stage" sounds like one seamless speaker. Strong and smooth voice -- that's how I'd describe the R50s/CSR combo. I haven't even touched the receiver's settings, so it's only gonna get better. So far, VERY happy with the receiver and speaker combo! Abosolutely no comparison to any HTiB system I listened to (and that's the point of my project -- to beat those for not much more money).


Going to run the rear speaker wires for the R150s this weekend, and do some heavy-duty "testing"... I think I'll start with Master and Commander...


Of course with the new 7.1 receiver, this is gonna make me want another pair of R150s (sure hope my wife doesn't see this, LOL).


----------



## rafiks

what kind of sub do you have? I also have a pair of r50's .planning on getting a sub to make mine a 2.1 setup ..


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> Here are my possible choices:
> *Front/Center:*
> 
> Polk Audio R50 with Polk CSR OR
> 
> Athena - AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole with Athena Audition AS-C1.2 OR
> 
> Athena - LS-C50 Center Speaker with Athena Audition AS-C1.2



Stay away from the Athena R1.2 as fronts. They are designed to be surrounds with a diffused soundstage. Athena fronts should be F2.2, F1.2, B2.2 or B1.2...similar models in the LS series...matched with the appropriate centers in the separate lines.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Subwoofer:*
> 
> Modify an old M&K Volkswoofer 1B as stated here
> 
> BIC H-100
> 
> Dayton SUB-120 12" 150 Watt
> 
> AV123 X-SUB



Forget the Dayton. If you don't go with the M&K the Bic or x-sub are head and shoulders better.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A lot of the above are also driven by the cost. For example if I buy an expensive front set, I would probably get the cheapest subwoofer or rear based on my choices above.
> 
> 
> Any input is very much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chikka



If cost is the deciding factor, I'd go Polks over the LS with an x-sub in a smaller room, Bic in a larger...use the M&Ks as surrounds until you can afford some R150s, or not.


----------



## Nightman116




> Quote:
> If cost is the deciding factor, I'd go Polks over the LS with an x-sub in a smaller room, Bic in a larger...use the M&Ks as surrounds until you can afford some R150s, or not.



Larger room as in what size? i've been fighting on what to get for a subwoofer between the two and my room is a 14.5wx 23L.


Which one would fill the room more?


----------



## Blake9b

How does the more expensive AV123 sub compare to the Hsu and SVS models? I'm considering going used for a AV123 UFW10 vs. a SVS PB10-NSD.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rafiks* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what kind of sub do you have? I also have a pair of r50's .planning on getting a sub to make mine a 2.1 setup ..



I honestly don't know the model name/number, but it's about 8 years old, Polk, 8" or 10" powered sub. It has separate volume knob and filter knob, as well as speaker connections. It sounds very nice to me -- plenty big enough and enough power for my smallish room (16'x14'), and it goes well (sound-wise) with the Polk R-series speakers I'm using everywhere else.


I like Polk speakers, and frankly, I'm not picky enough about subs (they sound more alike than different) to bother with any other brand. If I needed a new sub to go with my new R-series speakers, I'd probably get a Polk PSW-series sub.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nightman116* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Larger room as in what size? i've been fighting on what to get for a subwoofer between the two and my room is a 14.5wx 23L.
> 
> 
> Which one would fill the room more?



The Bic...


----------



## lanceroni

I have a small living room in a townhome. I'm going to upgrade my sound system from a logitech 5500. It will be mostly for movies. So far I have ordered:


2 R50s front

R150 surround

CSR center

Onkyo 304 refurb


Is the Velodyne vx-10 gonna be good enough in a small room or should I spend the extra 100 and go with the Bic 100. Is the Bic 100 too big for a small living room?


Thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does the more expensive AV123 sub compare to the Hsu and SVS models? I'm considering going used for a AV123 UFW10 vs. a SVS PB10-NSD.



The UFW10 is a nice musical sub...it lags behind the SVS and Hsu in sheer output and extention...it does make a difference. If you can get the UFW cheap then I'd be tempted, but at full price I'd go either SVS or Hsu in a heartbeat.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If cost is the deciding factor, I'd go Polks over the LS with an x-sub in a smaller room, Bic in a larger...use the M&Ks as surrounds until you can afford some R150s, or not.



Thanks for this input it's very helpful!

Just got a couple more question:

- Would you still prefer the R150s over the Athena - AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole as rear speakers?

- Would I benefit from upgrading the rear to R300 or R50 (when I have the money)?


I will most likely do what you recommended as far as keeping the M&K Sattelite as my rears. I'm really leaning towards the Polk for the front (R50 & CSR). Subs is still left to be determined. I may get a good one until I get my budget increased.


BTW, my room size is 11'X17' is there another Sub you can recommend that I should consider?


Thanks again,

Chikka


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for this input it's very helpful!
> 
> Just got a couple more question:
> 
> - Would you still prefer the R150s over the Athena - AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole as rear speakers?
> 
> - Would I benefit from upgrading the rear to R300 or R50 (when I have the money)?
> 
> 
> I will most likely do what you recommended as far as keeping the M&K Sattelite as my rears. I'm really leaning towards the Polk for the front (R50 & CSR). Subs is still left to be determined. I may get a good one until I get my budget increased.
> 
> 
> BTW, my room size is 11'X17' is there another Sub you can recommend that I should consider?
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Chikka



I personally have the R50's and love them. I think almost everyone will suggest you stay with the same line of speakers with the same manufacture. So if you get the Polks try to stay Polk for the rear surrounds.


----------



## rafiks

ron: what does it mean when you say "musical subwoofer"?


----------



## tab10

Here is the HTIB alternate I put together...


Polk Csi3 center

Polk R50s up front

Polk R30s surround

Onkyo 605 avr

eD A5-350 sub (on its way)


I probably went overboard on the sub and I got the receiver NIB... so that is where my most of my money went. the five Polk speakers only ran me $450


----------



## Maverickster2

O.K. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on my HT system and am looking for either affirmation or criticism of the following setup:


TV: Panasonic 58PZ700U

DVD: Oppo 981HD

CD: Pioneer DV-C503 (old, but still works)

STB: DirecTV HR-20

AVR: Harman/Kardon AVR 247.

Front L/C/R Speakers: Paradigm Cinema 110s

Satellite L/R Speakers: Paradigm Cinema ADP or 70

Subwoofer: SVS PB10-NSD

Cables/Interconnects: MonoPrice


This will all be wall-hung/in-wall wiring (retrofit of my living room).


My use is probably 80% HT / 20% Music. My room is 13'x22' with a volume of 6414 cubic feet (vaulted ceiling); also, one of the walls (on the left side of the seating position) is "missing" (i.e. opens up into the kitchen).


I will be buying all of this (except the TV) on eBay, Audiogon, or AVS Forum Marketplace.


Thoughts?


Thanks!!


--Mav


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for this input it's very helpful!
> 
> Just got a couple more question:
> 
> - Would you still prefer the R150s over the Athena - AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole as rear speakers?
> 
> - Would I benefit from upgrading the rear to R300 or R50 (when I have the money)?
> 
> 
> I will most likely do what you recommended as far as keeping the M&K Sattelite as my rears. I'm really leaning towards the Polk for the front (R50 & CSR). Subs is still left to be determined. I may get a good one until I get my budget increased.
> 
> 
> BTW, my room size is 11'X17' is there another Sub you can recommend that I should consider?
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Chikka



I'd match the Athena AS-R1.2s with speakers in the Athena lineup, not with Polks. My statment is qualified. If you're going to spend a bit more, then I think the Athena AS is a great solution. I'd choose Polks over the LS lineup...they are less expensive and while I haven't heard the LS lineup, I don't like the look and sound of the chic , but plasticky tall narrow cabinets of either Polk or Athena's HT lines. I have no hesitation about the Polk R50s and matching speakers. I owned them and loved them. They are a great value.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rafiks* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ron: what does it mean when you say "musical subwoofer"?



Explosions and thump are easy for most subs, though some do it much better. A musical sub will be linear throughout it's frequency response, you'll hear distinct notes, sharp attacks, less decay...in short it will sound better. You'll hear descriptions of "one note wonder", "fartbox", etc. for many less capable subs.


The ones I recommend do both HT and music well. If I don't recommend one, I either haven't heard it or think it's crap (though I might not say so).


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tab10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is the HTIB alternate I put together...
> 
> 
> Polk Csi3 center
> 
> Polk R50s up front
> 
> Polk R30s surround
> 
> Onkyo 605 avr
> 
> eD A5-350 sub (on its way)
> 
> 
> I probably went overboard on the sub and I got the receiver NIB... so that is where my most of my money went. the five Polk speakers only ran me $450



Congrats tab10, it's taken you a long time to get here...just a few more weeks for the sub. I'm excited for you. I haven't heard the eD subs yet though I talk to them fairly regularly and think it's a company moving in the right direction. That sub looks to be very interesting. Let us know how it sounds, either here or on Subs...


----------



## Starkiller4299

Hey, somebody's selling an Onkyo TX-SR502 in my area for $130, should I bite? I'm looking for 5.1 for gaming + movies in a 11x17 room, and will have some digital, some analog, sources. I'm hoping to keep my total system under $600, if possible (looking into the Polks right now).


Thanks in advance!


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd match the Athena AS-R1.2s with speakers in the Athena lineup, not with Polks. My statment is qualified. If you're going to spend a bit more, then I think the Athena AS is a great solution. I'd choose Polks over the LS lineup...they are less expensive and while I haven't heard the LS lineup, I don't like the look and sound of the chic , but plasticky tall narrow cabinets of either Polk or Athena's HT lines. I have no hesitation about the Polk R50s and matching speakers. I owned them and loved them. They are a great value.



I went ahead and ordered the Polk fronts before it goes away










2 - Polk R50 from Fry's (frys.com) for [email protected][email protected] s/h = *$172.52*
_Tip: Shipping is cheaper to order 1 speaker each than putting 2 speakers in 1 order._


1 - Polk CSR from Crutchfield (crutchfield.com) for $99.99+$6.99 = *$106.98*


Can't wait to get it.

Thanks,

Chikka


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went ahead and ordered the Polk fronts before it goes away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 - Polk R50 from Fry's (frys.com) for [email protected][email protected] s/h = *$172.52*
> _Tip: Shipping is cheaper to order 1 speaker each than putting 2 speakers in 1 order._
> 
> 
> 1 - Polk CSR from Crutchfield (crutchfield.com) for $99.99+$6.99 = *$106.98*
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chikka



You're gonna really like that combo!


When you can, toss in a set of R150s for the rears ($50 for the pair!), and you'll be amazed. Since they're all from the same family, they blend VERY well.


Have fun!


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Starkiller4299* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, somebody's selling an Onkyo TX-SR502 in my area for $130, should I bite? I'm looking for 5.1 for gaming + movies in a 11x17 room, and will have some digital, some analog, sources. I'm hoping to keep my total system under $600, if possible (looking into the Polks right now).
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I wouldn't, that model has been updated 3 times. The current models are X05. You can still find the 504 at shoponkyo or accessoris4less with a factory waranty for around $20 more than that shipped.


----------



## rafiks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Explosions and thump are easy for most subs, though some do it much better. A musical sub will be linear throughout it's frequency response, you'll hear distinct notes, sharp attacks, less decay...in short it will sound better. You'll hear descriptions of "one note wonder", "fartbox", etc. for many less capable subs.
> 
> 
> The ones I recommend do both HT and music well. If I don't recommend one, I either haven't heard it or think it's crap (though I might not say so).



Thanks for the enlightenment! So a "musical sub" is a good thing.. Thanks again..


----------



## Starkiller4299




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't, that model has been updated 3 times. The current models are X05. You can still find the 504 at shoponkyo or accessoris4less with a factory waranty for around $20 more than that shipped.



Thanks, I'll avoid it then. $20 is definitely worth any updates and a warranty







.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're gonna really like that combo!
> 
> 
> When you can, toss in a set of R150s for the rears ($50 for the pair!), and you'll be amazed. Since they're all from the same family, they blend VERY well.
> 
> 
> Have fun!




Thanks. I can't wait to get it









That's what I'm planning to add for my rear (R150) but do you know if I will benefit greatly on adding another set of R50 or R300? Or is just a complete waste of money?


----------



## TrebleVsBass

2 days ago I was about to buy the Onkyo HT-SR800 (~$400-450) home theater system package. Then I came across this thread. why why why! "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" sigh!









I have been reading the forums since. Although it has been very informative, obviously pulling the trigger on component purchases has become more and more difficult.









The HT-SR800 home theater system must be the best deal around beating anything at its price range. I think the included receiver is the new Onkyo TX-SR575 (~$350 online) and the 7.1 speaker system is the Onkyo SKS-HT540 (~$250 online).










Inputs: The system that I have decided to build has only one known component so far which is the Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver I have just ordered. I couldn't resist it for the price with all the reviews and the new available audio formats.







I am trying to keep a budget of $700 on the rest of the components.

The living room is around 2100 cf but there is an open kitchen and a dining room area that add another 1800 cf . This is assuming I lock the hallway door to the right of the TV and the 2nd bedroom door after the dining room area to confine this area. The TV is sitting to the right of the bar stools of the kitchen. The left side of the bar stools is the dining room area. I should have attached a picture of the floor plan, but I'm sure you guys got the picture.

Use will be 50% HT, 30% Music, 20% Gaming.


Question 1) will I be able to use the added features of DTS-HD, TrueHD through the PS3's hdmi connection to this receiver? I know that the toslink output doesn't suffice.


Question 2) which subwoofer? Athena as-p6000 ( I haven't seen any ratings for this subwoofer on the forums, all I know that the 21Hz extension was hard to believe on the specs for ~$300 ), bic h100, x-sub, ed a2-250, ed a2-300? vtf-2 mk3 and pb10-nsd are also options depending on the cost of the speakers.


Question 3) which speakers? A) Polk r50 f, CSR, r150 r vs. B) Athena b1.2 f&b, c1.2 vs. C) Athena b1.2 f, c1.2, r1.2 r? These options cost around $300-$350. x-ls 5.1 costs around $700 shipped, are they that good to justify the price difference? Will the R50s perform better than b1.2s when playing stereo music? Would it be an improvement to replace rear r150s with R50s?


The R50s look better on paper I guess, more power handling with same sensitivity, better frequency response etc (may not matter when you have a sub?) and I think they look better physically as well, but I have read that they sound dull and that the tweeters blow out at higher volumes.

I have heard that the Athenas sound bright but do well with a warmer onkyo receiver.

Assuming the r1.2s may not work with music that well, I have been leaning towards the more balanced Athena b1.2 x4 + c1.2 + ed a2-300 combination (~$650-$700). Please don't be limited with the options above; I would really appreciate any suggestions or comments. (including options like "definitely buy these more expensive components over time", "just buy the HTIB" etc...)


Note: Please tell me that the $1000+ spent will be worth the quality over the Onkyo HTIB that I am surpassing. Thank you.


----------



## SnowDog73

I've been lurking here at AVS for a long time. I'm looking to spend a little money and get a huge bang for my buck, and this thread seems like the perfect place to get some guidance.


Here's the basic stats. I'll get to the question in a minute










Living Room: 18.5x13.5 (~250 sq feet, ~2100 cu feet), with 8 foot opening into kitchen. Wall-to-wall carpet.

Usage: 95% Movies/TV.

Current receiver: Yamaha RX-V530 . It's old but works fine.

Speakers/Sub: Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble IV 


The Ensemble IV is a set of 5 micro bookshelves (4" square) with a passive subwoofer/bass module. It has served me well but it's time to upgrade.


My proposed budget is about $500, give or take. I could go up to $600 if need be. I didn't plan on upgrading the receiver. My long term upgrade plan to is to put a semi-dedicated theater in the basement, but that's 2-5 years away. I want something now which hopefully won't be wasted when I go that route.


Upgrade option #1 : Blow entire budget on subwoofer (SVS PB10-NSD). Continue to tolerate tiny bookshelves knowing bass is blowing me away.


Upgrade option #2: Put together a 3.1 system, ignoring surrounds for now. Due to speaker placement, surrounds aren't truly surrounds.
I'm looking at eD, though unhappy with the delay, where I can get the eD A2-250 + 3 A6 5T5 MTM s for $522 shipped (plus stands).
Also looking at pairing either the Polk R50 (or R300)/CSR or the Athena B1.2/C1.2 with the with the BIC H-100. Both options, shipped, come to between 500 and 600. I do not have a Fry's nearby.


Misc factors:
BIC H-100 has slightly higher WAF than eD A2-250, but this isn't a huge deal.
R50 has low WAF due to cherry finish clashing with black wood TV stand. She actually asked if we could paint them, which seems like a shame. R300 has higher WAF.
Placement is an issue. TV is in corner, and in only place where I can really put it and still stay married







. Space to either side of TV is unavailable on TV stand, so either need floorstanding with small footprint, or mounted on stands. Center is going on the bottom shelf of cabinet.


Any advice would be most appreciated. I know that whichever way I go, I'll be getting an upgrade. I just don't want to get a "fair" upgrade when I could be blown away....


----------



## fonzie311

Been browsing this thread all weekend...now i'm ready to jump in!


First of many questions I'll probably have is, how do you decide whether to buy floorstanders or bookshelf as your frontspeakers? Thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TrebleVsBass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2 days ago I was about to buy the Onkyo HT-SR800 (~$400-450) home theater system package. Then I came across this thread. why why why! "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" sigh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been reading the forums since. Although it has been very informative, obviously pulling the trigger on component purchases has become more and more difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HT-SR800 home theater system must be the best deal around beating anything at its price range. I think the included receiver is the new Onkyo TX-SR575 (~$350 online) and the 7.1 speaker system is the Onkyo SKS-HT540 (~$250 online).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inputs: The system that I have decided to build has only one known component so far which is the Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver I have just ordered. I couldn't resist it for the price with all the reviews and the new available audio formats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to keep a budget of $700 on the rest of the components.
> 
> The living room is around 2100 cf but there is an open kitchen and a dining room area that add another 1800 cf . This is assuming I lock the hallway door to the right of the TV and the 2nd bedroom door after the dining room area to confine this area. The TV is sitting to the right of the bar stools of the kitchen. The left side of the bar stools is the dining room area. I should have attached a picture of the floor plan, but I'm sure you guys got the picture.
> 
> Use will be 50% HT, 30% Music, 20% Gaming.
> 
> 
> Question 1) will I be able to use the added features of DTS-HD, TrueHD through the PS3's hdmi connection to this receiver? I know that the toslink output doesn't suffice.
> 
> 
> Question 2) which subwoofer? Athena as-p6000 ( I haven't seen any ratings for this subwoofer on the forums, all I know that the 21Hz extension was hard to believe on the specs for ~$300 ), bic h100, x-sub, ed a2-250, ed a2-300? vtf-2 mk3 and pb10-nsd are also options depending on the cost of the speakers.
> 
> 
> Question 3) which speakers? A) Polk r50 f, CSR, r150 r vs. B) Athena b1.2 f&b, c1.2 vs. C) Athena b1.2 f, c1.2, r1.2 r? These options cost around $300-$350. x-ls 5.1 costs around $700 shipped, are they that good to justify the price difference? Will the R50s perform better than b1.2s when playing stereo music? Would it be an improvement to replace rear r150s with R50s?
> 
> 
> The R50s look better on paper I guess, more power handling with same sensitivity, better frequency response etc (may not matter when you have a sub?) and I think they look better physically as well, but I have read that they sound dull and that the tweeters blow out at higher volumes.
> 
> I have heard that the Athenas sound bright but do well with a warmer onkyo receiver.
> 
> Assuming the r1.2s may not work with music that well, I have been leaning towards the more balanced Athena b1.2 x4 + c1.2 + ed a2-300 combination (~$650-$700). Please don't be limited with the options above; I would really appreciate any suggestions or comments. (including options like "definitely buy these more expensive components over time", "just buy the HTIB" etc...)
> 
> 
> Note: Please tell me that the $1000+ spent will be worth the quality over the Onkyo HTIB that I am surpassing. Thank you.



Lots of questions...but good ones...frankly I just scanned your post, but here goes...


The x-ls speaker package is superior for 2 channel and multi-channel music. This will translate to stellar HT performance as well. If you pair the 5.0 with a SVS or Hsu, it will elevate this package into midfi.


The Athenas regardless of configuration are a step up from the Polks for detail and imaging (I think).


The Polk R50s aren't as bright, don't blow their tweeters (unless you clip the **** out them) and have a very warm and detailed midrange and midbass. What people comment on is the tweeter not popping like the Athenas or other bright speakers. They tweets aren't as good as their other lines, but for entry level speakers, they are very hard to beat.


Subs...all you've asked about are going to be pretty good. The more you spend the better it gets.


Since you have a bunch of options, I can't fine tune it anymore. If I had $700 after the AVR...I'd be torn between the x-series or Polks and a PB10. They are all very decent packages, so close your eyes and go for it.


----------



## Maverickster2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lots of questions...but good ones...frankly I just scanned your post, but here goes...
> 
> 
> The x-ls speaker package is superior for 2 channel and multi-channel music. This will translate to stellar HT performance as well. If you pair the 5.0 with a SVS or Hsu, it will elevate this package into midfi.
> 
> 
> The Athenas regardless of configuration are a step up from the Polks for detail and imaging (I think).
> 
> 
> The Polk R50s aren't as bright, don't blow their tweeters (unless you clip the **** out them) and have a very warm and detailed midrange and midbass. What people comment on is the tweeter not popping like the Athenas or other bright speakers. They tweets aren't as good as their other lines, but for entry level speakers, they are very hard to beat.
> 
> 
> Subs...all you've asked about are going to be pretty good. The more you spend the better it gets.
> 
> 
> Since you have a bunch of options, I can't fine tune it anymore. If I had $700 after the AVR...I'd be torn between the x-series or Polks and a PB10. They are all very decent packages, so close your eyes and go for it.



FWIW (which is probably not much), I had the same speaker budget ($700 or so after the AVR -- I got a H/K 247, though). I decided on the SVS PB10-NSD and then pieced together a Paradigm Cinema 110/ADP package from eBay, Audiogon, and the marketplace here (saved a little over 50% doing it that way). I was leery of buying second-hand stuff, but several people (who should know) suggested I give it a shot and noted that that $700 budget level is sort of a "middling" level -- high end of the low end -- but it's also a budget that will alow you to get into the "next tier" of stuff, if you're willing to buy secondhand or wait around for a price drop.


Just a thought.


--Mav


P.S. I'm not going to buy the sub secondhand, though; too much abuse-risk there for my tastes.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Maverickster2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW (which is probably not much), I had the same speaker budget ($700 or so after the AVR -- I got a H/K 247, though). I decided on the SVS PB10-NSD and then pieced together a Paradigm Cinema 110/ADP package from eBay, Audiogon, and the marketplace here (saved a little over 50% doing it that way). I was leery of buying second-hand stuff, but several people (who should know) suggested I give it a shot and noted that that $700 budget level is sort of a "middling" level -- high end of the low end -- but it's also a budget that will alow you to get into the "next tier" of stuff, if you're willing to buy secondhand or wait around for a price drop.
> 
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> 
> --Mav
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm not going to buy the sub secondhand, though; too much abuse-risk there for my tastes.



I doubt I'll ever buy new again except for pre/pros or subs. Incredible value and outstanding bargains can be had once you know what to look for.


----------



## SnowDog73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Maverickster2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I decided on the SVS PB10-NSD and then pieced together a Paradigm Cinema 110/ADP package from eBay, Audiogon, and the marketplace here



That's one of the routes I'm considering going -- basically take my budget and buy one really strong component which will last me decades. Then wait for a great opportunity to pick up my other speakers.


Of course, if the prices we're seeing now already represent a great opportunity, then ....


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. I can't wait to get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm planning to add for my rear (R150) but do you know if I will benefit greatly on adding another set of R50 or R300? Or is just a complete waste of money?



Waste of money? Heck no. Depends on your needs, and the size of your room, etc. The R50s definitely sound more full than the R150s (floorstanders vs. bookshelf, and additional drivers). The R300 is basically the R150 with a built-in stand (and probably a touch more sound, thanks to the larger enclosure -- though I've not heard them).


Since I'm currently at 5.1, the R50/CSR/R150 combo works great for me. If/when I go to 7.1, I will move the R150s to "rear surround", and get another pair for surrounds -- but I have a smallish room (14x16). If I had a larger, more rectangular room, I'd probably get another set of R50s for surrounds, and move the R150s to rear-surrounds.


----------



## Blake9b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went ahead and ordered the Polk fronts before it goes away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 - Polk R50 from Fry's (frys.com) for [email protected][email protected] s/h = *$172.52*
> _Tip: Shipping is cheaper to order 1 speaker each than putting 2 speakers in 1 order._
> 
> 
> 1 - Polk CSR from Crutchfield (crutchfield.com) for $99.99+$6.99 = *$106.98*
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chikka



I've been contemplating a center speaker to compliment my R50's for a few weeks. I have not been able to find a Cherry CSR to match my R50's, though can't seem to drop the extra $70 just to get a CS1 that has matching colors....


did you purchase a black csr with your cherry r50's?


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been contemplating a center speaker to compliment my R50's for a few weeks. I have not been able to find a Cherry CSR to match my R50's, though can't seem to drop the extra $70 just to get a CS1 that has matching colors....
> 
> 
> did you purchase a black csr with your cherry r50's?



I bought the cherry R50s, and a black CSR. They match perfectly (sound-wise).


The black CSR didn't matter to me, since it's housed right under the TV, in a TV stand (i.e. you only see the front grill, which is black like the grill on the R50s).


The cherry veneer on the R50s is very nice looking. Better than I expected, actually.


----------



## mbaxter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbaxter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Specs-wise these look like a hell of a deal:
> 
> http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...oductDetail.do
> 
> 
> 8" woofer, 3.25" cone, 1" tweeter, good size wood cabinet. $80 for a pair of these.



Bump on these Sonys. Curious what people think of them. I think the tendency here is to dismiss out of hand any speakers made by Sony, but these sure look like they'd be a great bang per buck.


The prev version of these speakers (model SS-MB250H) got good reviews on the net, but I prefer the word of AVS'ers when it comes to anything HT related.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake9b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been contemplating a center speaker to compliment my R50's for a few weeks. I have not been able to find a Cherry CSR to match my R50's, though can't seem to drop the extra $70 just to get a CS1 that has matching colors....
> 
> 
> did you purchase a black csr with your cherry r50's?



I did purchase the black CSR. Part of my hold back with the r50 was the cherry finish because it will not go well with my home theater setup. I'm hoping that it will not be as visible during viewing and I figured if it bothers me enough, I will probably cover it with felt or paint it with the same color as my wall







Hey if I mess up the paint, it's not that it will be visible during viewing anyways (let's hope I don't have to do that).


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Waste of money? Heck no. Depends on your needs, and the size of your room, etc. The R50s definitely sound more full than the R150s (floorstanders vs. bookshelf, and additional drivers). The R300 is basically the R150 with a built-in stand (and probably a touch more sound, thanks to the larger enclosure -- though I've not heard them).
> 
> 
> Since I'm currently at 5.1, the R50/CSR/R150 combo works great for me. If/when I go to 7.1, I will move the R150s to "rear surround", and get another pair for surrounds -- but I have a smallish room (14x16). If I had a larger, more rectangular room, I'd probably get another set of R50s for surrounds, and move the R150s to rear-surrounds.



Yeah, I kinda figured it's an obvious answer







My room is only 11'X17' so I will probably go with the R150s when I retire my over 10 year old M&K that I inherited.


----------



## fonzie311

Hi, Two questions:


I will be buying a HK 2xx receiver, and am looking to buy the av123 x-ls bookshelves. Unfortunately the x-cs center won't fit in my tv stand, so i want a solution in the meantime.


1) Is there a way to set it up so i can use my tv speakers as the central speaker?


2) What is the advantage/difference of using a specified center speaker instead of a third bookshelf as the center.


Thanks for all your help. I've been obsessed with this thread and forum for the past 4 days.


----------



## bdizzle

Hey Ron,


Does the CSi25 match the R50's well? I just bought CSi25 literally 5 minutes ago, but I'm thinking I should have went with the CSR instead since they're apart of the seem R series. I was reading in the Polk thread about timbre matching and I got kinda nervous (having "R" series speakers and "CSi" series center). This is my 1st theater and I want things to sound good, but the CSi25 was about $30 cheaper (fit better into my budget) and seemed comparable when looking at the specs on polks site.


Did I make a mistake or will the CSi25 work well with what i have?


here's what i got so far:

Onkyo 604, 2xR150, 2xR50, 1xCSi25


thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ron,
> 
> 
> Does the CSi25 match the R50's well? I just bought CSi25 literally 5 minutes ago, but I'm thinking I should have went with the CSR instead since they're apart of the seem R series. I was reading in the Polk thread about timbre matching and I got kinda nervous (having "R" series speakers and "CSi" series center). This is my 1st theater and I want things to sound good, but the CSi25 was about $30 cheaper (fit better into my budget) and seemed comparable when looking at the specs on polks site.
> 
> 
> Did I make a mistake or will the CSi25 work well with what i have?
> 
> 
> here's what i got so far:
> 
> Onkyo 604, 2xR150, 2xR50, 1xCSi25
> 
> 
> thanks



The CSi25 is a match. It's the Euro version of the CSR...it's 4 ohm, but 8ohm compatable...same specs. Don't worry about it.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fonzie311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1) Is there a way to set it up so i can use my tv speakers as the central speaker?
> 
> 
> 2) What is the advantage/difference of using a specified center speaker instead of a third bookshelf as the center.



1) even if you could use your TV as a center speaker (you can't), it would sound a lot worse than no center at all. sometimes you can run a "phantom" center in a 2.0 setup.


2) dedicated center channels are often configured differently from their matching bookshelf counterparts (different size or multiple mid-bass drivers), even though they are timbre-matched to the mains. also, they could be magnetically sheilded, which allows close placement to CRT displays. the corresponding L/R speakers may or may not be. if shielding isn't going to be an issue and a bookshelf speaker will fit your space, it would probably be better than running no center at all.


----------



## rhk0327

This is my first time setup, so I'd appreciate any suggestions you have for my 5.1.

All prices include tax and shipping


-Three Boston Acoustic VR2 for L R C channels. $220 each - Circuitcity (CC) store pickup with 10% off AAA coupon (check ebay if needed)

-One KEF psw2150 sub (only 250 watts peak I know, but I got for $160 with tax, anything better for the money?). (Bought KEF hts2001.5 $500 (CC) (now $600) with %10 -AAA coupon and sold the satellites for $360

-Junky stereo boombox speakers for the L and R surrounds electrical taped in.


Cables at monoprice.com which I believe has the cheapest all around


----------



## fonzie311

I was wondering if you could help me decide which reciever I should get..


I've been debating between H/K 235, 240,245 or the ONKYO 505


I keep going back and forth..any suggestions would be helpful


Thanks for all your help!


----------



## afrogt

Is there a big price difference between the 235, 240 and 245? If not, get the newest one.


I think all 3 HK's will sound better than the Onkyo. The only reason to me, to get the Onkyo would be the HDMI video switching, but I believe the 245 would do that also.


What's your budget for this receiver?


----------



## SnowDog73

Just thought I'd post an update. Nobody had any ground-breaking advice, so after hemming and hawing over it for a while I ended up going with this:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnowDog73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking at eD, though unhappy with the delay, where I can get the eD A2-250 + 3 A6 5T5 MTM s for $522 shipped (plus stands).



I ended up going to the A2-300. Hopefully I'll get a great bang-for-buck out of it!


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The CSi25 is a match. It's the Euro version of the CSR...it's 4 ohm, but 8ohm compatable...same specs. Don't worry about it.



On my receiver it says this



> Quote:
> Only connect speakers with an impedance of 6 ohms or higher. If you use speakers with a lower impedance, and use the amplifier at high volume levels for a long period of time, the built-in protection circuit may be activated.



Does it being "8ohmz compatable" mean that I don't have to worry about the tripping the circuit, or do i still have to be careful about how high i turn the volume up?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On my receiver it says this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it being "8ohmz compatable" mean that I don't have to worry about the tripping the circuit, or do i still have to be careful about how high i turn the volume up?



There was a user that had a problem a few pages back, but it didn't sound to me like it was an impedence issue. Try it, I doubt if you'll have a problem driving one speaker. If you do, sell it and try a CSR.


----------



## fonzie311

my budget is around $200...i can get the onkyo505 or one of the H/K2xx on ebay for that price


----------



## fonzie311

One more question...if I were to buy a HD-DVD player would those receivers be good enough? (I have a 1080p tv if that matters at all)


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fonzie311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One more question...if I were to buy a HD-DVD player would those receivers be good enough? (I have a 1080p tv if that matters at all)



for video the 505 would be fine. the hdmi ports on it do 1080p. for audio (truehd and pcm) probably not. i know the hdmi ports on this dont pass audio so you wouldnt be able to get truehd or pcm from them. im not sure if the analog in's do multichannel pcm or not though


i was looking at the 505 for my 1st receiver but got the 604 used from the for sale forum on here for $280. i wanted to make sure i can get truehd and pcm so paying a little extra was important to me


----------



## bearcat12480




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fonzie311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my budget is around $200...i can get the onkyo505 or one of the H/K2xx on ebay for that price



Where are you finding the Onkyo 505 for around $200? I can only find it for $250. Let me know. Thanks.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnowDog73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd post an update. Nobody had any ground-breaking advice, so after hemming and hawing over it for a while I ended up going with this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up going to the A2-300. Hopefully I'll get a great bang-for-buck out of it!



I love my eD 5.1 system. I have the tower l/r , mtm center, bookshelf rears, with an A2-300 sub. Great value for the money IMO. I'm extremely impressed with the sub for the price.


----------



## fonzie311

How 'bout the HK receivers then? Do they handle the true HD?


ONKYO 505 for $200 is if I buy it used


----------



## Blake9b

I purchased my 505 for around $217 with tax from Circuit City a month ago. I used two coupons on a sale price...


----------



## Kex

Hi everyone! I posted earlier about upgrading our stereo system with four Polks we already have. We got them about ten years ago and the stickers fell off the back so I was not sure exactly which speakers we had and decided that I probably needed to know that before proceeding any further with the upgrade. I contacted Polk and they replied that we are the proud owners of four "new mini monitors" made from 1993-1996 (assuming the retailer gave us the correct spec sheets at the time of purchase).


I then asked them for suggestions about a center and sub and they pointed me to the the CS1. Assuming the CS1 matches these older mini monitors, does anyone have any preferences for the CSi3 (better and cheaper?) or the CSR (good enough and cheaper?).


Here are the specs of the mini monitors (assuming we weren't given the wrong product sheet when we bought them all those years ago):


- 12mm (0.5") dome tweeter.

- 133mm (5.25") composite polymer driver

- 10.5"H x 6.5"W x 7"D

- Overall Frequency Response = 42Hz - 25kHz

- -3dB limits = 67Hz - 23kHz

- Recommended Amplification = 10-100 watts/channel

- Impedance = 8 ohms

- Efficiency = 90dB

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/csr/ (about $100)

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/cs1/ (about $162)

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/csi3/ (about $150)



For the sub, they recommended the PSW10 or PSW110 but Polk subs do not seem to be a popular choice with forum members.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw10/ 

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw110/


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone! I posted earlier about upgrading our stereo system with four Polks we already have. We got them about ten years ago and the stickers fell off the back so I was not sure exactly which speakers we had and decided that I probably needed to know that before proceeding any further with the upgrade. I contacted Polk and they replied that we are the proud owners of four "new mini monitors" made from 1993-1996 (assuming the retailer gave us the correct spec sheets at the time of purchase).
> 
> 
> I then asked them for suggestions about a center and sub and they pointed me to the the CS1. Assuming the CS1 matches these older mini monitors, does anyone have any preferences for the CSi3 (better and cheaper?) or the CSR (good enough and cheaper?).
> 
> 
> Here are the specs of the mini monitors (assuming we weren't given the wrong product sheet when we bought them all those years ago):
> 
> 
> - 12mm (0.5") dome tweeter.
> 
> - 133mm (5.25") composite polymer driver
> 
> - 10.5"H x 6.5"W x 7"D
> 
> - Overall Frequency Response = 42Hz - 25kHz
> 
> - -3dB limits = 67Hz - 23kHz
> 
> - Recommended Amplification = 10-100 watts/channel
> 
> - Impedance = 8 ohms
> 
> - Efficiency = 90dB
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/csr/ (about $100)
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/cs1/ (about $162)
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/csi3/ (about $150)
> 
> 
> 
> For the sub, they recommended the PSW10 or PSW110 but Polk subs do not seem to be a popular choice with forum members.
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw10/
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw110/



Not having heard the Minis, it's tough to say. I saw your thread on CP. The older Polks aren't as bright as the current CSi line, so their recommendation on the CS1 makes sense. If you can find a used center on Craigslist CS225, 300 or 350, it would probably be a better center than the CS1 and be a closer match. They can be found fr ~ $100-150. I owned the CSi3 and liked it, but like the older Polk centers more.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... The older Polks aren't as bright as the current CSi line, so their recommendation on the CS1 makes sense. If you can find a used center on Craigslist CS225, 300 or 350, it would probably be a better center than the CS1 and be a closer match. They can be found fr ~ $100-150. I owned the CSi3 and liked it, but like the older Polk centers more.



None of those available just now in my area that I could find. Would the CSR be an equally good match? They seem very similar "on paper" and since it sounds as though none of these will be a perfect match anyway, it might make not be worth spending the extra $60 for the CS1.


Another option would be to get the CSi3 now as an adequate match, sell the mini monitors in a year or so (when the dust has settled on the whole upgrade) and then buy more recent surrounds that match the CSi3 better.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> None of those available just now in my area that I could find. Would the CSR be an equally good match? They seem very similar "on paper" and since it sounds as though none of these will be a perfect match anyway, it might make not be worth spending the extra $60 for the CS1.
> 
> 
> Another option would be to get the CSi3 now as an adequate match, sell the mini monitors in a year or so (when the dust has settled on the whole upgrade) and then buy more recent surrounds that match the CSi3 better.



The CSi3 is a much better center than the CSR...I'd do it.


----------



## Florida_Gator

Actually the best match sound-wise might be the CS1 or CSR.


I compared the CSi3 to the CSR, and liked the CSR better. It sounded "fuller" to me -- a little less "thin" or "bright". Then again, since I was matching it up to Polk R50s (voice-matched since same family), that might be why I liked it.


I would think the CS1 or CSR would be better voice-matched to your older speakers.


----------



## Kex

Well, we went to Fry's yesterday and that place was a mess! Stuff was piled up dusty on even dustier shelves everywhere. We talked to two reps. and both wanted to sell us an Onkyo receiver but could not tell us why H/K was a bad choice. It was too noisy and disorganized to listen to anything anyway and one of the reps looked like he had been living and sleeping in the same clothes for a week!


We then went to Circuit City, which was a much better environment. They hooked up some Polk bookshelf speakers with the CSR and CS1 (the only two they had there at the time) and a Polk PSW10. We found the CS1 a little richer sounding than the CSR, actually. It also "looked" a lot better we thought too, but I think either, with our four Mini Monitors, should sound excellent as an entry level HT for watching DVDs.


I am leaning towards a H/K AVR146 at $198 as a refurb from H/K right now, unless I can get a good deal from H/K Direct on e-Bay.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11347594
> 
> 
> I am leaning towards a H/K AVR146 at $198 as a refurb from H/K right now, unless I can get a good deal from H/K Direct on e-Bay.



You should be able to score a 2xx or even a 3xx from HK Direct for ~ $200. Just be patient.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11347792
> 
> 
> You should be able to score a 2xx or even a 3xx from HK Direct for ~ $200. Just be patient.



Thanks Ron, I think I'll try for that. A 247 would be nice for that price: I like having the auto-calibration feature (if it works effectively) and the HDMI pass through is great for future updrade ability ... if we ever get that new TV! We'll see how it goes!


----------



## bdizzle

For anyone looking for some cheap stands for R150's, I got these from Amazon for under $30

http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-77305...7621297&sr=8-1 


The only issue is the only way to mount them is to remove the metal "L" bracket and screw four holes in the bottom of the speakers. Just make sure the metal plate is dead center and it works fine.


Just wanted to say thanks to Ron and G-Star for this thread. So far I've spent about 600 for everything (didnt get the sub yet) and I'm happy with the sound. I didn't callibrate yet, but it still sounds good. My gf and i were watching Crank on bluray and she kept looking behind her thinking someone was talking. If anyones interested ill post pics


----------



## slenser

Woot has a great deal for some Polk Audio RM7400T/RM40T tower speakers. $300 + $5 shipping. This is for a pair, not each. Only good for another hour though.


Edit:

Nevermind, it just sold out less than 15 minutes after posting this.


----------



## birdwax

Are the Insignia bookshelves from Best Buy no longer a good value? I am surprised that no one has mentioned them in this thread (I could be wrong about this - I've read only about half the posts). They aren't as cheap as they were a year ago, but at $65-75 I thought they would still merit a mention.


----------



## Pagash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *birdwax* /forum/post/11369099
> 
> 
> Are the Insignia bookshelves from Best Buy no longer a good value? I am surprised that no one has mentioned them in this thread (I could be wrong about this - I've read only about half the posts). They aren't as cheap as they were a year ago, but at $65-75 I thought they would still merit a mention.



I think the reason they are not mentioned is for that price they can't compete with some other good deals, such as Athena's from Audioadvisor, or the polk deals from Fry's which may be a little more expensive, but from all accounts are a major step-up.


----------



## birdwax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/11369196
> 
> 
> I think the reason they are not mentioned is for that price they can't compete with some other good deals, such as Athena's from Audioadvisor, or the polk deals from Fry's which may be a little more expensive, but from all accounts are a major step-up.



Ah. I had heard that they were a step above the Polk R15s, so I assumed they were better than the R150s too.


----------



## aat0995




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/11364916
> 
> 
> Woot has a great deal for some Polk Audio RM7400T/RM40T tower speakers. $300 + $5 shipping. This is for a pair, not each. Only good for another hour though.
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Nevermind, it just sold out less than 15 minutes after posting this.



I bought these speakers and I am planning to get onkyo sx604. Any recommendations for getting the center and the rear speaker? I guess I will need a sub too. Thanks!


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aat0995* /forum/post/11369357
> 
> 
> I bought these speakers and I am planning to get onkyo sx604. Any recommendations for getting the center and the rear speaker? I guess I will need a sub too. Thanks!



Polk states these are what you need (centers should, apparently, be closely matched to the main front speakers, so, it's probably "safer" to stay with the same brand):


A. This center:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6902/ 


A.i. With these rears:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6801/ 


B. Or this center:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm7302/ 


B.i. with these either of these rears:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6901/ 
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm7300/ 


Polk subs do not seem to have a big following, but this new model looks pretty cool, maybe it's OK:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...oofers/psw110/ 


Or choose another one completely (since it is not so important if the sub matches the speakers and center). There are several mentioned earlier in this thread.


----------



## buzzy_

They just added a lot to the B stock at AV123 (link here) , some good deals. Especially the ELT-1 SW-10 SE Subwoofer. The bottom of the list has the more affordable stuff. Call if you're seriously interested to see what's still available.


----------



## aat0995




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11373639
> 
> 
> Polk states these are what you need (centers should, apparently, be closely matched to the main front speakers, so, it's probably "safer" to stay with the same brand):
> 
> 
> A. This center:
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6902/
> 
> 
> A.i. With these rears:
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6801/
> 
> 
> B. Or this center:
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm7302/
> 
> 
> B.i. with these either of these rears:
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6901/
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm7300/
> 
> 
> Polk subs do not seem to have a big following, but this new model looks pretty cool, maybe it's OK:
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...oofers/psw110/
> 
> 
> Or choose another one completely (since it is not so important if the sub matches the speakers and center). There are several mentioned earlier in this thread.




Thanks for your suggestions. I was curious if it is possible to go with Polk RM6750
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6750/ or it is totally stupid? The only reason I am asking is that they are appearing for $199 on outpost.


----------



## fonzie311

I wanna thank everybody that's helped me on this thread. I just finished buying the last piece of my audio system


HK 245 receiver

x-ls fronts

x-cs center

BIC H-100 subwoofer


Total: $750


Thanks! I'm hooked to learning about this stuff now. I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread...and to think I was about to buy a HTIB


----------



## owl1234

I'm new to this and I'm looking to set-up my first HT system after reading this thread for a few days (14x14 room, 7.1 channel setup). This is what I'm thinking about doing: (I prefer shelf speakers only)


Main: Polk CS1

L/R: Polk MONITOR 30

Surrounds: Polk MONITOR 30 (4 of them)

Subwoofer: HSU-VTF-1


I know it's not exactly a budget system (I already have the Onkyo 705) but I'm curious to know how this combo would compare to the SBS-01 system. I feel better buying products widely available locally (Polk) than online (except for the subwoofer).


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *owl1234* /forum/post/11378860
> 
> 
> I'm new to this and I'm looking to set-up my first HT system after reading this thread for a few days (14x14 room, 7.1 channel setup). This is what I'm thinking about doing: (I prefer shelf speakers only)
> 
> 
> Main: Polk CS1
> 
> L/R: Polk MONITOR 30
> 
> Surrounds: Polk MONITOR 30 (4 of them)
> 
> Subwoofer: HSU-VTF-1
> 
> 
> I know it's not exactly a budget system (I already have the Onkyo 705) but I'm curious to know how this combo would compare to the SBS-01 system. I feel better buying products widely available locally (Polk) than online (except for the subwoofer).



I haven't heard the 2 side by side and I love Polks, but the SVS speaker package is a bit more refined, the center is definitely better than the CS1 and the PB10 is a notch above the VTF1. If you can go SCS 01s across the front (LCR), it would be significantly better. Also, I'd recommend 5.1 over 7.1 in your smallish room. The benefits of 7.1 come into play with bi/dipole surrounds with direct monopoles coming from the back. A longer room would be ideal. I'm not saying 7.1 won't sound good, but so will 5.1, maybe better.


All that being said, the Polks are nice speakers too and you would enjoy them. I just prefer the SVS package.


----------



## freezerbyrne

My living room is 22'x16' with one side open to the kitchen. I plan to buy the Onkyo TX-SR 605. I will be using the HT for 75% movies and 25% music. Below are systems I have been looking at.

I am currently in Afghanistan and coming home next month. I can't really get out and listen to any of these systems myself. So I'm only going off of what I have read in this forum. Any of your opinions on the below systems would be appreciated.


1) AV123 / x-cs Center / x-ls Bookshelfs Front and Rears

2) Athena / ATASC1.2 Center / Audition B1.2 Fronts / AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole Rears

3) Athena / LS-100 Center / LS-100 Bookshelf Fronts and Rears

4) SVS / SBS-01 System / With the PB12-NSD Sub


And which Sub do you think would be better for any of the systems?

1) Athena AS-P6000

2) AV123 X-Sub

3) HSU VTF-2 MK3


My budget for the speakers and sub is around $1500. I am looking at a 5.1 setup and later on possibly move up to the 7.1.


Thanks in advance


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/11353632
> 
> 
> For anyone looking for some cheap stands for R150's, I got these from Amazon for under $30
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-77305...7621297&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> The only issue is the only way to mount them is to remove the metal "L" bracket and screw four holes in the bottom of the speakers. Just make sure the metal plate is dead center and it works fine.
> 
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks to Ron and G-Star for this thread. So far I've spent about 600 for everything (didnt get the sub yet) and I'm happy with the sound. I didn't callibrate yet, but it still sounds good. My gf and i were watching Crank on bluray and she kept looking behind her thinking someone was talking. If anyones interested ill post pics



Thanks for the stand tip. I went ahead and purchased it for my R150.


Like you this thread had been really helpful to me. Thanks to all the very helpful people in here. With your help I'm VERY satisfied with my current setup and managed to save a lot of money for the sound quality I'm getting. I would probably have this setup for years to come.


Just FYI this is what I got:

- Front L&R = Polk R50 ($138)

- Center = Polk CSR ($100)

- Surround = Polk R150 ($50)

- Receiver = Onkyo 304 ($89)

- Subwoofer = BIC H-100 ($200)


The whole thing cost me $577 (+ shipping), which really can't compare to an HTIB setup. All I'm waiting for now are the stands so I can dispose off the R50 boxes which I have the R150s sitting on










BTW, I would really recommend getting a good sub to balance everything out. The BIC sub was the last part I added and it really gave a good balance to the Polks. The difference for me was like night and day from the sub I was using which belongs to a sony HTIB.


Thanks again and hopefully I can be as helpful!

Chikka


----------



## kevcheney

Hi All - Newbie here looking to peice together a decent sounding budget system. I have read through a lot of this thread and really appreciate all of the information and posts. I think I have decided on the Polk R50s for my fronts and the matching CSR for the center. My dilema is with my rear speakers. I don't really have a good location for additional tower or bookshelf speakers. The best location would be to mount a couple small speakers up on the wall/ceiling. Will smaller satellite speakers sound ok with the R50s/CSR in front? Any suggestions? Would the Polk RM101 satellite speakers work? Thanks in advance for your advice.


----------



## bdizzle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chikka* /forum/post/11385405
> 
> 
> BTW, I would really recommend getting a good sub to balance everything out. The BIC sub was the last part I added and it really gave a good balance to the Polks. The difference for me was like night and day from the sub I was using which belongs to a sony HTIB.
> 
> 
> Thanks again and hopefully I can be as helpful!
> 
> Chikka



Ya I've been planning on getting that sub, but there's so much other stuff I gotta get first. I'm moving into my new place and just bought a bunch of new furniture and a lot more purchases to go. Plus I'm really hoping to get a PJ in oct/nov so thats another added cost. Right now the sound is "good enough" that I can wait on getting the sub for a couple months. Hopefully though by the end of the year everything'll be bought and I'll be able to sit back and really enjoy the countless months of reading these damn forums trying to figure out how to spend my money wisely.


----------



## blobula

What place on ebay does everyone make an offer and get their BIC H-100 sub from?


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freezerbyrne* /forum/post/11385200
> 
> 
> Any of your opinions on the below systems would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 1) AV123 / x-cs Center / x-ls Bookshelfs Front and Rears
> 
> 2) Athena / ATASC1.2 Center / Audition B1.2 Fronts / AS-R1.2 Bi-Pole Rears
> 
> 3) Athena / LS-100 Center / LS-100 Bookshelf Fronts and Rears
> 
> 4) SVS / SBS-01 System / With the PB12-NSD Sub
> 
> 
> And which Sub do you think would be better for any of the systems?
> 
> 1) Athena AS-P6000
> 
> 2) AV123 X-Sub
> 
> 3) HSU VTF-2 MK3



i'd rank the speakers as follows (in descending order):

1. AV123 x-series

2. SVS SBS-01 5.0 package

3. Athena audition series

4. Athena LS series


and subs as follows:

1. HSU VTF-2.3

2. SVS PB-10 NSD

3. AV123 X-sub

4. Athena P6000


if i were you, i'd pick the best from both lists that will meet your pricepoint. the AV123 x-series with the VTF 2.3 or PB-10 sub would be the killer of all possible combos (IMO)...i'm just not sure it will meet your budget requirements...you'll have to check.


----------



## kevcheney

I was thinking I would get the Polk R50s for my fronts and the matching CSR for the center (~$272 total). However, I have a local add advertising a set of used Polk RT600s and Polk CS175 center channel for $200 total. Should I consider the used RT600s/CS175 over the new R50s/CSR? Thanks for any help.


Also looking for a response regarding my previous post about satellite rear speakers. Thanks for any guidance you can provide.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/11387559
> 
> 
> What place on ebay does everyone make an offer and get their BIC H-100 sub from?



Do an ebay search for the Bic H-100 and look for the sellers acousticsoundesign or sound distributors. They are both authorized and have the make an offer option.


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/11387559
> 
> 
> What place on ebay does everyone make an offer and get their BIC H-100 sub from?



I got mine from sound_distributors. Basically I made an offer of $190 and they counter offer with $200. I also bid on the others but I don't think you'll get anything less than $200. Shipping was $39 and took over a week to get (Won: 8/13 - Received: 8/22). It was in perfect shape.


Good luck!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevcheney* /forum/post/11388463
> 
> 
> I was thinking I would get the Polk R50s for my fronts and the matching CSR for the center (~$272 total). However, I have a local add advertising a set of used Polk RT600s and Polk CS175 center channel for $200 total. Should I consider the used RT600s/CS175 over the new R50s/CSR? Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> Also looking for a response regarding my previous post about satellite rear speakers. Thanks for any guidance you can provide.



If the RT600s are in good shape, yes. I've heard their big brother the RT800 and it's quite a bit more speaker than the R50. The center is probably a match with a single driver/tweeter/port combination and is probably worth about $50 on craigslist, but there's a guy here trying to sell one for $125. If possible go and listen to to R50s at Frys then audition the RT600s, if you don't notice an immediate improvement, then get the 50s.


----------



## tgw13

Great thread! Wonder if I can trouble you guys for a little help. I am looking for a budget 5.1 speaker system. I have a new Onkyo 605. I have gone over and over the recommendations listed here and have seen most of them before. However, I have some unique issues. (Most of the issues are WAF related, so can't get around that)

My room is prewired for surround with the wiring for the fronts about 5 feet off of the floor, so towers won't really work due to seeing the wire come out of the wall and down to the speaker. And mounted bookshelves are also nixed by the same WAF. :-(

So thin on-walls are the choice here. Would really like the long (18-20in), narrow ,and thin form factor to put vertically on each side of my flat panel and one horizontally for center above or below. Anyone seen any of these that will not break the budget?

My rear surrounds are prewired in the ceiling so I will need in-ceilings for those. Prefer to match all of the LCRs and rears.


I have about $500 to spend on the whole 5.1 setup.


Been knocking my head against the wall and spending LOTS of time searching stores/forums online, but having a VERY hard time finding a solution. Any help or suggestions very appreciated.


----------



## Pagash

Are you thinking about something like the Athena WS-60:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATWS60 


They do come up on fleabay from time to time, as do in-ceiling Athena's for good prices.


Other than that, I'm sure someone else will come up with other alternatives. Good luck!


----------



## tgw13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pagash* /forum/post/11392731
> 
> 
> Are you thinking about something like the Athena WS-60:
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATWS60
> 
> 
> They do come up on fleabay from time to time, as do in-ceiling Athena's for good prices.
> 
> 
> Other than that, I'm sure someone else will come up with other alternatives. Good luck!



Yes! Exactly like those...except about half(or less) the price.










Thanks for your reply.


----------



## afrogt

Reduced from $499 to $199 shipped.
http://www.radiient.com/Calypso-5-Ch...c=2&category=6


----------



## freezerbyrne

Can you buy AV123 x-series speakers anywhere other than the AV123 site? Can you buy an HSU Sub anywhere other than their site? Does anyone know of any sales on these products?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freezerbyrne* /forum/post/11393333
> 
> 
> Can you buy AV123 x-series speakers anywhere other than the AV123 site? Can you buy an HSU Sub anywhere other than their site? Does anyone know of any sales on these products?



AV123 is the only place I know of for you to buy their products. They are in high demand so really no reason for them to go on sale. But they do have B-stock/open box on occasion at discounted prices.

http://www.**********/products_catego...stock&brand=14 


HSU has a factory outlet also but I don't think anything is available right now.


----------



## Kex

Does anyone know of a good source on e-Bay for Polk Audio? I came accross this seller with his own store and 100% positive feedback claiming the following:

_... We are the ONLY sellers on eBay which can sell you a brand new Polk product which comes with the 5 year manufacturer's warranty. If you decide to buy from another seller, ask them if the product comes with the serial number and also keep in mind that their product comes with no warranty from Polk (no matter what they say) ..._

http://myworld.*/capitolpro/ 
http://stores.*/Z-Tech-Electronics 


Anyone used them before (you need to insert ebay dot com, written correctly, in the place of the asterix in the links)? (I hope I am not breaking any rules here!)


----------



## honeg

Great thread! Very informative, and just what I needed to read before buying a new system.


I have a small budget (edit: $500-$600) and based on the info here, I can put together a decent system for that, but (there's always a but) I have a few constraints that make it a little tougher than I'd like.


1) The room is directly above my neighbors living room, and its a 100+ year old wooden building, so there is nothing between us but a couple of layers of wood and plaster. Big bass will not make me a popular person










2) Usage will be about 60% music, 40% movies, so good musical fidelity is just as important (maybe more so) than surround sound goodies. Musical taste is all over the map, but mostly dance/electronica (with the ground shaking doof doof doof toned down a bit because of #1







)


3) I'm going to start with a 2 or maybe 2.1 system, then expand to 3.1 and 5.1 later on. Given the emphasis on music, the first set of speakers will probably be bookshelves, with a bit more low-range than a typical HT satellite. It looks like a good SW is in the $200 range, which is fine down the road, just not right now.


4) Ideally, I'd like a receiver thats not too deep (i.e. not the normal full-depth 14/15"), because then I can place it on some existing (10") shelves, rather than finding a new cabinet. This is the one thats really been stumping me.


5) I'd like to be able to play from a USB HD (I have a lot of ripped music), or (less good) headphone out from a laptop (iTunes on a MBP). One of the Oppo's has a USB 2.0 input, so any feedback from someone with experience of this would be helpful.


The Oppo is a decent chunk of change for such a small budget, but I'm happy to spend a little extra if the source quality is improved. I agree with G-Star on the importance of the speakers too. The receiver, so long as its decent, is not a high priority right now.


Whew! If you're still reading, I'd appreciate any advice on some components that'll give me a good start down the road to a nice 5.1 HT. I'd be ecstatic if anyone can help out with #4










Just for grins, the closest fit to these reqs in the HTIB market was the Samsung HT-X250. I have no idea what it sounded like, but it had the advantage of being vertical, very sleek looking (IMO), and supporting my USB HD requirement.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11398102
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of a good source on e-Bay for Polk Audio? I came accross this seller with his own store and 100% positive feedback claiming the following:
> 
> _... We are the ONLY sellers on eBay which can sell you a brand new Polk product which comes with the 5 year manufacturer's warranty. If you decide to buy from another seller, ask them if the product comes with the serial number and also keep in mind that their product comes with no warranty from Polk (no matter what they say) ..._
> 
> http://myworld.*/capitolpro/
> http://stores.*/Z-Tech-Electronics
> 
> 
> Anyone used them before (you need to insert ebay dot com, written correctly, in the place of the asterix in the links)? (I hope I am not breaking any rules here!)



You'd best pop that question over on CP. Polk lists authorized online sellers on their site...no joy for those 2 links, but I've been wrong before.


They are correct, in that NIB Polks are deeply discounted from online vendors on ebay and elsewhere all the time. Most usually don't disclaim that the warranty is void as they are not authorized, but picked up some excess inventory from legit retail outlets. There's usually nothing wrong with the speakers other than the serials are removed and no warranty. Whether these guys are legit...call or email Polk CS and ask.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11401461
> 
> 
> You'd best pop that question over on CP. Polk lists authorized online sellers on their site...no joy for those 2 links, but I've been wrong before ...



Thanks Ron (as always!). That gave me an idea to check their listing and street address where they say they have their B&M store (since you didn't find them listed as an authorized online retailer), and sure enough, it pops up on Polk's list of authorized retailers:

http://direct.where2getit.com/cwc/ap...&city=&state=0 


They're the first store on the list (Z-TECH). I'll let everyone know if I get one of my missing speakers from this source! This could be really good news for me in my quest (and hopefully some other posters in this thread too)!


----------



## Kex

I just got my harman/kardon 147 as a refurb from Harman Kardon Direct on e-Bay for $207.50 + CA tax + shipping (they don't charge tax in all states), so I thought I would share some of the joy (of getting the unit, not parting with the cash). It did sell for $6 less last week, and $15 more several times this week, so this suited me fine (even if it might not be the cheapest 147 ever bought through that channel). This gives me:


A) 2 HDMI in 1 out (switching only, video only: audio connections must be made seperately) for future TV upgrades. It will pass through 1080p if I am not mistaken, as long as it is HDMI to HDMI (not component to HDMI, which would be 720p).

B) 10 more watts per channel, even if watts mean nothing, especially with h/k which is reputed to measure watts conservatively.

C) Most important perhaps: EzSet/EQ speaker calibration.


Thanks Ron Temple for the tip about Harman on e-Bay! Even as a refurb from the "special offers" section of the h/k website, this was $266 + tax (although the website does charge $10 less for shipping). The MSRP on this is $399 and Best Buy were selling the 146 for $299.


Now, I just need that center and that sub (and a few extra wires).


----------



## owl1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11380400
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the 2 side by side and I love Polks, but the SVS speaker package is a bit more refined, the center is definitely better than the CS1 and the PB10 is a notch above the VTF1. If you can go SCS 01s across the front (LCR), it would be significantly better. Also, I'd recommend 5.1 over 7.1 in your smallish room. The benefits of 7.1 come into play with bi/dipole surrounds with direct monopoles coming from the back. A longer room would be ideal. I'm not saying 7.1 won't sound good, but so will 5.1, maybe better.
> 
> 
> All that being said, the Polks are nice speakers too and you would enjoy them. I just prefer the SVS package.



Thanks Ron. I ordered the SVS package (5.1) instead. Thanks for the adivce.


----------



## 5TANGER

Quick question:


Can one pick up the Polk R50's for the same price at a Fry's store?


I ordered 2 from Frys.com, they sent me one, and blamed DHL for losing the second box. They're conducting an investigation while I have to enjoy a 1.1 system.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5TANGER* /forum/post/11404292
> 
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> 
> Can one pick up the Polk R50's for the same price at a Fry's store?
> 
> 
> I ordered 2 from Frys.com, they sent me one, and blamed DHL for losing the second box. They're conducting an investigation while I have to enjoy a 1.1 system.



Quick answer...usually, but the sales price goes off and on, also, they don't always have stock. If you don't want to wait, give it a shot, there are 4 or 5 stores around here.


----------



## getagrip15

I just got my BIC H100 in this week and...wow. I had a friend over last night (He owns an Onkyo s790 HTIB







) and we gave the sub a thorough workout. We were both very impressed. I felt bad sending him home to listen to his HTIB. Poor guy.


----------



## mildog

This is an absolutely awesome thread! Ok....I've got a couple of questions to throw out:


1. Is there a clear winner between the onkyo 504, HK 147, and the Panasonic XR55 receivers?


2. I really want a good budget pair of floor standing mains. The Polk R50's seem to fit the bill, but they only come in cherry (at least that is all I've found). Are there any other good ones around the $150/pr range?


Thanks!


----------



## 5TANGER




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11405811
> 
> 
> Quick answer...usually, but the sales price goes off and on, also, they don't always have stock. If you don't want to wait, give it a shot, there are 4 or 5 stores around here.



Thanks! I'll see what I can do.


----------



## Florida_Gator

STANGER,


Give it another day or two. I received one R50 from Fry's also (though I had ordered two), and the other one came a day or two later. Fry's ships so much stuff, that it all gets palletized. Sometimes, an order is split between pallets, which can result in different delivery days for the entire order. As I recall, I received a pair of R150s and one R50 on one day, and the other R50 another day (again, one or two days later). Found out about the palletizing when I called both Fry's and DHL (like you, I thought the 2nd R50 was "lost").


Good luck!


----------



## anupaminsf

I checked Vanns but I coudn't find the $299 Nanosat 5.0 deal you mention below. Could you post the link? I'm looking for a less obtrusive replacement for my current HT setup and these should mate well with the mirage bipolar sub. Thanks!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkidPalace* /forum/post/9901454
> 
> 
> I am upgrading from a cheapo Bose Acoustimass 600 which was fine for the apartment bedroom it came out of, but the new plasma in our ~1500cf living room deserves better.
> 
> I just got a REL Q150E sub at a blow out price for a floor model ($249) and I would like to pair it with a set of Velodyne Front Rows.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the Q150E? Will it match well with the 4" drivers of the Front Rows? How will the Q compare to a BIC H-100?
> 
> Does anyone favor a better set 5.0 set for even a hundred bucks more?
> 
> I know the Mirage Nanaosat 5-piece system is available for $299 at Vanns.
> 
> Advice would be appreciated.


----------



## 5TANGER




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/11416164
> 
> 
> STANGER,
> 
> 
> Give it another day or two. I received one R50 from Fry's also (though I had ordered two), and the other one came a day or two later. Fry's ships so much stuff, that it all gets palletized. Sometimes, an order is split between pallets, which can result in different delivery days for the entire order. As I recall, I received a pair of R150s and one R50 on one day, and the other R50 another day (again, one or two days later). Found out about the palletizing when I called both Fry's and DHL (like you, I thought the 2nd R50 was "lost").
> 
> 
> Good luck!



I got the first box on Monday, it's Saturday now. I think it would have showed up by now if it was sent. I was too busy at work to call them today, I'll try tomorrow... or Monday.


----------



## cmconner156

Hey everyone, this thread is great. I've been reading through and at first I thought the Polk R50's were going to be what I wanted for my Fronts. Then I realized that they are a cherry finish which does not match anything I have. So I was wondering if anyone could suggest comparable Floorstanding speakers that would be black. I want floorstanding and black as that is what best complements my setup. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!


Thanks in advance!

Chris


----------



## chikka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/11434190
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, this thread is great. I've been reading through and at first I thought the Polk R50's were going to be what I wanted for my Fronts. Then I realized that they are a cherry finish which does not match anything I have. So I was wondering if anyone could suggest comparable Floorstanding speakers that would be black. I want floorstanding and black as that is what best complements my setup. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Chris



The Polk R300 are black but probably a step down from the R50. I haven't heard the R300 but the R50s are awesome for the price. The color was part of my dilemma in ordering them because I have it matching with a black CSR and the location of the speakers has a dark gray wall but after I got them they really wasn't too bad since I normally watch movies with the lights off in my home theater.







Actually the cherry finish looks pretty descent too.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/11434190
> 
> 
> So I was wondering if anyone could suggest comparable Floorstanding speakers that would be black. I want floorstanding and black as that is what best complements my setup. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!



check out audioadvisor....they're closing out the athena line, you might be able to find a good deal on F1.2's or even F2.2's. i'm not entirely sure just how they would compare to the polks that have been mentioned.


----------



## mbaxter

Those NS-B2111 Insignias are on sale again, for $60 a pair:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138 


There's a whole thread about them in the speakers forum. Supposed to be a great bang-per-buck, and the the coaxial speaker design means you can turn this speaker sideways for use as a center channel. Most speakers suffer performance degradation when turned sideways, because the woofer & tweeter are separate elements and interfere with each other when arrayed horizontally. But coaxial designs (with the tweeter in the middle of the woofer) work the same no matter which way you orient them.


I may pickup 3 pairs of these for a nice 6.1 setup. Still debating the idea vs buying some pricier speakers like Onix x-ls or Athena B1.2.


----------



## cmconner156

Does anyone have the F1.2's? Looks like I can get 2 F1.2's and a C1.2 for $300, i'm considering, but I'm having a hard time finding any reviews of the F1.2's.


Thanks!

Chris


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/11436428
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the F1.2's? Looks like I can get 2 F1.2's and a C1.2 for $300, i'm considering, but I'm having a hard time finding any reviews of the F1.2's.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Chris



A couple of years ago there was a fire sale on the Athenas at BB when they discontinued the line. A lot of folks picked up F2s, F1s, B2s and B1s. There's no difference in performance vs. the .2s from what I gather, just downsized cabinets (though that should make a difference, IMO). Anyway, they are a bit brighter than the Polks, but from all reports, image better and keep improving when you upgrade your front end gear...source, AVR, separate amp, etc. So for that price, I think it's a winner.


----------



## Kex

Here is a post that mentions current pricing on some Monitor and RT speakers from Polk Audio that might be useful to some. Any comments?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...6&postcount=28


----------



## snooz123

Looking for a surround bookshelf or satellite system that is great for movies and HDTV, so I'm assuming there's a bigger emphasis on the center channel. Don't care how it sounds with music. Any suggestions? I have a budget of around 600-700.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snooz123* /forum/post/11438473
> 
> 
> Looking for a surround bookshelf or satellite system that is great for movies and HDTV, so I'm assuming there's a bigger emphasis on the center channel. Don't care how it sounds with music. Any suggestions? I have a budget of around 600-700.



Bookshelfs are gonna get you bigger sound than little satellite speakers. There's tons or recommendations in this thread.


Looks at Athena B1, Polk R150s, MissionM70, and maybe even the Velodyne Front Row system if you can find it.


A couple pairs of these would work with a good subwoofer.
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2321 


Do you have room for a center channel?


----------



## Kex

OK, so I am nearly there with my HTiB alternative:


- Got the h/k 147 from e-Bay, arriving tomorrow.

- Already had 4 Polk Audio New MiniMonitors (that I may upgrade later ... or sooner if I can!)

- Got a great Polk CS245i center from craigslist.com for just $40
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...76&postcount=8 

- Got some extra cables and wire from monoprice.com for $30.


Now, I just need a sub. I would like it to help with movies, obviously, but I would also like it to work well with music if that is possible.


Here are some subs from the start of this thead in our price range of $100-200.


Dayton 10" ($124):

Velodyne VX-10 ($159)

AV123 X-sub ($199):


Any recommendations of which of these would be best at music? Are there any others?


I can get a Polk PSW110 for $180. I like the design but have read terrible things about Polk entry level subs such as the older PSW10 in this forum.


----------



## afrogt

Out of those subs you listed, skip the Dayton because they're not very musical and go with the Velodyne. I'd recommend the X-sub but they're backordered until 9-28. I'm sure you don't want to wait another month for it.


By the way, your local Fry's has the Velodyne on sale for $149.
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...17348000&type=


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11441048
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> By the way, your local Fry's has the Velodyne on sale for $149.
> http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...17348000&type=



That sounds like a great option! Two more questions though:


1) Any thoughts on the PSW110, just so there is an "official" opinion somewhere in the thread?


2) I also came accross this excellent information on the Cadence xSub. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31902 It sounds like it might even be better than the BIC H-100 which seems to have a strong following. There's also this review, FWIW: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...0_2741crx.aspx


----------



## bucs0721

Newbie here that needs some help.

I currently have a set of Bose 201s with a Bose center (yeah, I know, Bose blows but the OL bought them for me for my 50th, what can I say?) I have 2 klipsch in walls as rears. I want to get the HK 347 to power these and my outdoor deck klipsch speakers. My question is on the sub: plenty of info on the 'best' subs, but my room is 12x14x8. I'm not a huge audiophile but want a decent sub at +/-$300. Which way do I go?

I haven't seen anything on the HSU-STF-1. Is this worth $300? Or should I go for the AV-123? Other???

Thoughts????


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11441439
> 
> 
> That sounds like a great option! Two more questions though:
> 
> 
> 1) Any thoughts on the PSW110, just so there is an "official" opinion somewhere in the thread?
> 
> 
> 2) I also came accross this excellent information on the Cadence xSub. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31902 It sounds like it might even be better than the BIC h100 which seems to have a strong following. I didn't think it would fit my current budget at $230, but it turns out I think I can get it for $100. Would it be a good option too?
> 
> 
> There's also this review, FWIW: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...0_2741crx.aspx



Don't get the Polk, I haven't heard any of their budget subs that were worth the price. Jump on that Cadence right now for $100. You're not gonna beat that deal anywhere.


p.s. If you're talking about the Cadence on eBay, make sure its not the one w/o the amplifier. That won't do you any good.


I'd take the Velodyne over the Polk.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11442079
> 
> 
> Don't get the Polk, I haven't heard any of their budget subs that were worth the price. Jump on that Cadence right now for $100. You're not gonna beat that deal anywhere.
> 
> 
> p.s. If you're talking about the Cadence on eBay, make sure its not the one w/o the amplifier. That won't do you any good.
> 
> 
> I'd take the Velodyne over the Polk.



Good call afrogt! It was the one w/o the amplifier and I hadn't checked yet in my haste to post back here to ask for an opinion. I think the Velodyne is going to be the one, if I can get to Fry's some day this week and they have it in stock.


Is something like a BIC H-100 or the Cadence xSub an upgrade or big upgrade from the Velodyne for the $80 extra (theoretically the Velodyne costs more when Fry's are not doing their $100 off special), especially for music?


----------



## afrogt

The Fry's sale ends Tuesday but it seems to come on sale at least every other Friday. From what I've read the BIC H100 goes louder and deeper. You can buy the Velo from Fry's and if it doesn't go deep enough for you, return it. You got 30 days I believe.


For home theater you'd probably want the BIC, if its mainly music it might not matter as much. Like I said earlier, just give it try since the store is local.


----------



## Mikeoz

It's been a while since I posted on this thread but I've been mostly enjoying my setup. Recently when listening to music I noticed a buzzing sound during bass notes and wondered wtf it was.. After tinkering w/ the speakers it's most definetly coming from the sub.







I've had the x-sub for ~4 months now I think, and it has a distinct buzz during bass notes.


Does anyone have a rough idea what the problem could be and if it's fixable on my end? I tried swapping out the rca cable and that didn't seem to make a difference. My receiver is an hk avr235 btw, and the speakers are set to x-over at 60hz, and the sub takes things below that and the lfe channel.. It's very noticeable during songs that have strong musical bass lines like sublime, and can be heard in collateral (the movie). It's not very loud, but it's distinct and VERY annoying.


I personally can't stand it and it ruins the movie/music for me. Fortunately music sounds fine w/o the sub, but it's unacceptable. Could I just have gotten stuck w/ a defective woofer? The sound it makes is similar to a blown speaker, but not nearly as bad. I haven't listened to music until recently and that's when it became very apparent. Does anyone have any suggestions what the problem might be? If not I'll give av123 a call tomorrow.







Thanks!


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bucs0721* /forum/post/11441930
> 
> 
> My question is on the sub: plenty of info on the 'best' subs, but my room is 12x14x8. I'm not a huge audiophile but want a decent sub at +/-$300. Which way do I go?
> 
> I haven't seen anything on the HSU-STF-1. Is this worth $300? Or should I go for the AV-123? Other???
> 
> Thoughts????



I have a room a bit larger than yours and am quite pleased with my STF-2. The Audyssy setup on my Onkyo 605 likes the sub set at about 1/3 power so I am definitely not overworking it.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11441439
> 
> 
> That sounds like a great option! Two more questions though:
> 
> 
> 1) Any thoughts on the PSW110, just so there is an "official" opinion somewhere in the thread?
> 
> 
> 2) I also came accross this excellent information on the Cadence xSub. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31902 It sounds like it might even be better than the BIC H-100 which seems to have a strong following. There's also this review, FWIW: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...0_2741crx.aspx



Jeez, you're digging up old posts...


The Cadence XSubs are doing duty with my son's rigs. They (the older versions) can do very well for music and HT with a little calibration magic. I had problems with a low level hum with both of the subs I had, but my sons don't so I guess it depends. In a head to head comparison with the Bic, it was close, but not quite as good, musically or for HT. Similar, just not as sharp.


They have redesigned it and dropped the price to $200 shipped. If the $50 is a deal breaker vs the Bic, then it's a very good sub. For $50 you will notice the difference.


Cadence was a decent company to deal with and makes a quality entry level sub...the hum is why I don't recommend it unless asked.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11442325
> 
> 
> Is something like a BIC H-100 or the Cadence xSub an upgrade or big upgrade from the Velodyne for the $80 extra (theoretically the Velodyne costs more when Fry's are doing their $100 off special), especially for music?



I like the Velodyne subs, but the Cadence and especially the Bic will compete with the DPS or DLSxxxR models for SQ and extention. The VX and VRP are musical, but don't extend much lower than 30-35hz. You'll get 24-25 from the Bic and equal SQ without much tweaking. The Cadence hits hard, but needs to be tweaked (cut) in my room anyway, to sound as good. Luckily, it has/had a 50hz filter, so it's easy.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11443926
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I posted on this thread but I've been mostly enjoying my setup. Recently when listening to music I noticed a buzzing sound during bass notes and wondered wtf it was.. After tinkering w/ the speakers it's most definetly coming from the sub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've had the x-sub for ~4 months now I think, and it has a distinct buzz during bass notes.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a rough idea what the problem could be and if it's fixable on my end? I tried swapping out the rca cable and that didn't seem to make a difference. My receiver is an hk avr235 btw, and the speakers are set to x-over at 60hz, and the sub takes things below that and the lfe channel.. It's very noticeable during songs that have strong musical bass lines like sublime, and can be heard in collateral (the movie). It's not very loud, but it's distinct and VERY annoying.
> 
> 
> I personally can't stand it and it ruins the movie/music for me. Fortunately music sounds fine w/o the sub, but it's unacceptable. Could I just have gotten stuck w/ a defective woofer? The sound it makes is similar to a blown speaker, but not nearly as bad. I haven't listened to music until recently and that's when it became very apparent. Does anyone have any suggestions what the problem might be? If not I'll give av123 a call tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Mike, call AV123...you might have it calibrated too hot...you might be getting some room resonance...it might be the driver...whatever...if it's not clean, find out what it is. If it's not on your end, make them fix it. They will.


----------



## Mikeoz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11444187
> 
> 
> Mike, call AV123...you might have it calibrated too hot...you might be getting some room resonance...it might be the driver...whatever...if it's not clean, find out what it is. If it's not on your end, make them fix it. They will.



Ok, I gave them a call and they recommended using a cheater plug (which removes the third prong and possibly a ground loop) which may alleviate the noise. The other option is hooking the sub up separately to a cd player in a different room with the cheater plug again. I'll give this a shot and let you guys know what happens. I'm hoping it is in fact interference so I don't have to send this puppy back. They're big and heavy which means shipping will not be cheap..


I'll post a follow up after trying it out..


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11447015
> 
> 
> Ok, I gave them a call and they recommended using a cheater plug (which removes the third prong and possibly a ground loop) which may alleviate the noise. The other option is hooking the sub up separately to a cd player in a different room with the cheater plug again. I'll give this a shot and let you guys know what happens. I'm hoping it is in fact interference so I don't have to send this puppy back. They're big and heavy which means shipping will not be cheap..
> 
> 
> I'll post a follow up after trying it out..



What you describe doesn't sound like ground loop to me. You're getting vibration during stress right? By all means try it on a separate circuit with the cheater. Also make sure the driver has a tight seal...no loose screws.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11444155
> 
> 
> Jeez, you're digging up old posts...



Yeah ... but good ones!


Anyway, I could not get to Fry's today for a Velodyne and was concerned about waiting for the next offer, so I went to the Piggy Bank and shook it ... total silence ... so I thought maybe it was full of bills, not coins, and broke it open ... nothing. But e-Bay is painless, at least to start with, so I bid $200 for the BIC with the Nevada shipper (to avoid sales tax) and got it for $239 shipped. I decided that it was a better mid to long term decision since the H-100 will be capable of growing with my setup when I get around to changing the speakers.


Still, I upgraded my AVR, center, and sub for just over $500: about $550 including extra cables, shipping and tax, and could have shaved another $100 off that (with a h/k 146 instead of the 147, and the Velodyne sub rather than the BIC). Given the great offers on speakers from Fry's, Crutchfield and elswhere (just download and read through the thread), others can do this too and not pay much more than I did for the total set.


I'll post back later when the stuff is set up.


----------



## Ron Temple

I think you made the right decision. The Bic has advantages over the Cadence...better looking with slightly better SQ, with no known issues other than a missing power cord occasionally.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Hi Guys great forum. Learned alot from the posts. One quick question I am in the process of trying to mix and match a HTIB to get good value but also a little upgrade on the speakers would this be OK


Replacing the Onkyo HT-SR800 front speakers with the polk R50's and use everything else?


Thanks


GadgetBoy


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GadgetBoy2007* /forum/post/11451845
> 
> 
> Hi Guys great forum. Learned alot from the posts. One quick question I am in the process of trying to mix and match a HTIB to get good value but also a little upgrade on the speakers would this be OK
> 
> 
> Replacing the Onkyo HT-SR800 front speakers with the polk R50's and use everything else?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> GadgetBoy



That will work fine...be prepared to start skiing down that slippery slope alot faster than you expected though.


----------



## Mikeoz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11447751
> 
> 
> What you describe doesn't sound like ground loop to me. You're getting vibration during stress right? By all means try it on a separate circuit with the cheater. Also make sure the driver has a tight seal...no loose screws.



Ya, I hooked the sub up separately to an mp3 player via an rca cable and it sounds like complete ass, which makes me think something is wrong w/ the amp/electronics. Looks like I'll be sending it back. It's hard to describe the noise. Basically the bass that's produced sounds distorted and is very weak, as in it produces less/as much bass as one floorstanding r50 I have with the gain all the way up on the xsub.


On a better note, the r50's really are a great bang for the buck. Turning the bass slightly up via the receiver improves their bass reponse dramatically and you definetly can't beat them for the money. I can hear clear differences between speakers 2-3x the price easily, but for a comparable price they're great.


----------



## snooz123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11438983
> 
> 
> Bookshelfs are gonna get you bigger sound than little satellite speakers. There's tons or recommendations in this thread.
> 
> 
> Looks at Athena B1, Polk R150s, MissionM70, and maybe even the Velodyne Front Row system if you can find it.
> 
> 
> A couple pairs of these would work with a good subwoofer.
> http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2321
> 
> 
> Do you have room for a center channel?



Yes I do. The only concern is that I don't have a ton of room for bookshelf size speakers as surrounds. So I'd prefer to find a system that has larger fronts and smaller surrounds. Probably can happen if I mix and match, but I'd prefer to get a system already like that...


----------



## mbaxter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GadgetBoy2007* /forum/post/11451845
> 
> 
> Hi Guys great forum. Learned alot from the posts. One quick question I am in the process of trying to mix and match a HTIB to get good value but also a little upgrade on the speakers would this be OK
> 
> 
> Replacing the Onkyo HT-SR800 front speakers with the polk R50's and use everything else?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> GadgetBoy




The SR800 front speakers are actually pretty darn good, but the so-called "center" channel is exactly the same speaker as the left & right. It's not a dedicated center designed for horizontal use, and it's sound is handicapped if used in that orientation.


But if you turn the center vertical, like the mains, your overall sound will improve dramatically. If your layout\

oom asthetics can allow for this, I highly recommend you give it a try.


----------



## 5TANGER

I just wanted to vent my frustration with Fry's/Outpost.com.


It's been 10 days since I got ONE of my TWO R50's, and the second one is at least 2 weeks away. They took a week to talk to their warehouse about I don't know what and now they're going to investigate the case for up to 15 days before they send me the second speaker.


I called all the local Fry's stores but none of them have the R50's.


I'm thinking of placing a new order and requesting a refund for the other one.


----------



## cmconner156

Thanks everyone for the help earlier in this thread. So I got 2 Athena F1.2's and the C1.2. All I can say is wow, the difference is night and day! So next on my list is a BIC 100 and then I need to get a receiver. I want a receiver that will support the latest formats as I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and that is mostly what this is for. Any recommendations? Would the Onkyo 504 or 505 suffice or do I need something more?


Thanks for all the help!

Chris


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/11475932
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help earlier in this thread. So I got 2 Athena F1.2's and the C1.2. All I can say is wow, the difference is night and day! So next on my list is a BIC 100 and then I need to get a receiver. I want a receiver that will support the latest formats as I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and that is mostly what this is for. Any recommendations? Would the Onkyo 504 or 505 suffice or do I need something more?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help!
> 
> Chris



Those towers really like power...I'm not a video guy, but get the features you want with an AVR with pre outs. Rather than get new speakers the next time you upgrade get a used 2 channel amp that can feed serious power, then the f1s will sound like new speakers.


----------



## cmconner156

Do you recommend any particular amp?


Thanks!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/11476200
> 
> 
> Do you recommend any particular amp?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



There are tons of monos, 2 channel, 3 channel and multi-channel amps on the market. Get you listen on with a nice AVR...when you're ready PM me.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Thanks everyone for the help earlier in this thread. So I got 2 Athena F1.2's and the C1.2. All I can say is wow, the difference is night and day! So next on my list is a BIC 100 and then I need to get a receiver. I want a receiver that will support the latest formats as I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and that is mostly what this is for. Any recommendations? Would the Onkyo 504 or 505 suffice or do I need something more?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help!
> 
> Chris



Are you running 5.1 or 7.1?


The Onkyo 504 or 505 definitely will not work for your needs. The 504 doesn't have HDMI and the 505 only has HDMI passthrough, it doesn't process audio. If you're using Blue Ray and HD DVD, you want a least the 605. But that doesn't have pre outs if you want add an amp later. Now you're looking at the 705, which is $$$.


The HK 247 might meet your needs since it has pre outs, and processes HDMI audio. I think I read it doesn't do 7.1 PCM audio over HDMI. If you're only doing 5.1 then it isn't an issue. Plus the HK's sound really good with the Athenas.


You may also want to look at the Yamaha RX-V661. It has the preouts, 7.1 audio over HDMI, etc.


----------



## samsurd2

The Sony STR-DG1000 also fits the bill although, like the HK 247, it won't apply PLIIx to 5.1 PCM to generate 7.1. If that's a major desire, the Yamaha 661 is definitely your best bet.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11476810
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The HK 247 might meet your needs since it has pre outs, and processes HDMI audio. I think I read it doesn't do 7.1 PCM audio over HDMI. If you're only doing 5.1 then it isn't an issue. Plus the HK's sound really good with the Athenas.



I just got a h/k 147 from harman/kardon Direct on e-Bay so I've been following pricing a little bit: Just in case you're interested in the 247, here's what I noticed:


- $499 MSRP from Best Buy.

- $388 refurbished direct from h/k online, + $15 shipping, + tax in some states.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...%20247&status= 

- $350-385 refurbished from h/k Direct on e-Bay (incl. shipping, B4 tax in some states)


----------



## Kex

The old:

- We had four New Mini Monitors (ten years old)

- We had a stereo only Yamaha RX-395 at 68w/ch. x 2.


We have now:

- The same Mini Monitors.

- A used CS245i from craigslist.com for $40 + $15 gas (120 miles).

- A new BIC H-100 for $239 shipped.

- A refurbished h/k 147 for $245 with shipping and tax at 40w/ch. x 5.1.


The results:


For MUSIC, this seems like a very nice little system now. I have not had much time to play yet, but the first tests, using "h/k Logic 7 music" would seem to indicate that I can listen to music at much lower levels than before and still get some effect without fatigue (which I describe as when I am kinda glad when the music stops). The Mini Monitors do not seem to be overwhelmed by the newer center (with bigger tweeter) and even without the sub, the 147 and the center deliver an excellent musical experience. adding the sub means that the sound can be turned lower and still fill the room. I think this is as good as it gets without getting bigger speakers.


For MOVIES, I just tried 30 minutes of Titanic and found that I might need to adjust the sub a little. Right now it's turned down to avoid booming that would unbalance music playback, so its at 3 (out of 10 max). As things are, using h/k "Logic 7 cinema", I found the "engine room" scene where the Titanic first gets to "stretch her legs" a little lacking in extra effects (for the thumping of the pistons etc.) compared to just the 4 little Polks and the CS245i on their own. Other than that, the sound is really excellent, so I am thinking I might need to adjust things differently on the h/k and see what I can achieve, or possibly turn the sub up a notch or two for movies.


----------



## Markus B

OK Ron, G-star, all knowledgeable others: I have waded thru 30-pages of this post including the last two pages - but have not seen any discussion about Infinity Speakers. A web site has a package deal on


(2) Primus P252

(2) Primus P142

(1) PC250

& PS-12 Sub


The package is listed at $700 before shipping. Any opinions as to how this system would measure up against Polk or AV123 ? The P252's are impressive looking floor standing speakers. The package is the same price as a with a PS-10 Subwoofer. I am leaning towards the AV123's but would like to hear your thoughts on the Infinity in general. Thanks to all.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11477961
> 
> 
> The old:
> 
> - We had four New Mini Monitors (ten years old)
> 
> - We had a stereo only Yamaha RX-395 at 68w/ch. x 2.
> 
> 
> We have now:
> 
> - The same Mini Monitors.
> 
> - A used CS245i from craigslist.com for $40 + $15 gas (120 miles).
> 
> - A new BIC H-100 for $239 shipped.
> 
> - A refurbished h/k 147 for $245 with shipping and tax at 40w/ch. x 5.1.
> 
> 
> The results:
> 
> 
> For MUSIC, this seems like a very nice little system now. I have not had much time to play yet, but the first tests, using "h/k Logic 7 music" would seem to indicate that I can listen to music at much lower levels than before and still get some effect without fatigue (which I describe as when I am kinda glad when the music stops). The Mini Monitors do not seem to be overwhelmed by the newer center (with bigger tweeter) and even without the sub, the 147 and the center deliver an excellent musical experience. adding the sub means that the sound can be turned lower and still fill the room. I think this is as good as it gets without getting bigger speakers.
> 
> 
> For MOVIES, I just tried 30 minutes of Titanic and found that I might need to adjust the sub a little. Right now it's turned down to avoid booming that would unbalance music playback, so its at 3 (out of 10 max). As things are, using h/k "Logic 7 cinema", I found the "engine room" scene where the Titanic first gets to "stretch her legs" a little lacking in extra effects (for the thumping of the pistons etc.) compared to just the 4 little Polks and the CS245i on their own. Other than that, the sound is really excellent, so I am thinking I might need to adjust things differently on the h/k and see what I can achieve, or possibly turn the sub up a notch or two for movies.



Kex, make sure your DVD player and cablebox are connected to the AVR via digital or HDMI connection. If you're not seeing Dolby Digital or DTS, you're not getting a .1 channel, the sub will be on, but it won't be "OOONNNN'. DVD audio should be set to bitstream, RAW or DD/DTS whatever it's called in the setup menu...cablebox to bitstream. There will be quite a difference...get an SPL meter...3 out of 10 sounds about right...it's not a volume control, it's an attenuator.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Markus B* /forum/post/11478624
> 
> 
> OK Ron, G-star, all knowledgeable others: I have waded thru 30-pages of this post including the last two pages - but have not seen any discussion about Infinity Speakers. A web site has a package deal on
> 
> 
> (2) Primus P252
> 
> (2) Primus P142
> 
> (1) PC250
> 
> & PS-12 Sub
> 
> 
> The package is listed at $700 before shipping. Any opinions as to how this system would measure up against Polk or AV123 ? The P252's are impressive looking floor standing speakers. The package is the same price as a with a PS-10 Subwoofer. I am leaning towards the AV123's but would like to hear your thoughts on the Infinity in general. Thanks to all.



There's been so many delays on the AV123 speakers, I'm at a loss to recommend them...let their supply chain catch up. The Infinitys, Polks and Athenas all have about the same build quality, very good. You'll have to listen to tell if you will prefer one over the other. I know I prefer Polks to Infinity entry level speakers, but there are others that feel just the reverse. The price looks right. The Infinity sub is pretty decent...haven't heard the rest.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> For MOVIES, I just tried 30 minutes of Titanic and found that I might need to adjust the sub a little. Right now it's turned down to avoid booming that would unbalance music playback, so its at 3 (out of 10 max). As things are, using h/k "Logic 7 cinema", I found the "engine room" scene where the Titanic first gets to "stretch her legs" a little lacking in extra effects (for the thumping of the pistons etc.) compared to just the 4 little Polks and the CS245i on their own. Other than that, the sound is really excellent, so I am thinking I might need to adjust things differently on the h/k and see what I can achieve, or possibly turn the sub up a notch or two for movies.



If you're watching Titanic on DVD you definitely shouldn't be using Logic 7. It should be Dolby Digital or DTS. As was said earlier, make sure your digital output on the DVD player is set to bitstream. You'll notice a world of difference.


----------



## sotaboy

Athena B1.2 and C1.2for $200 at audio advisor looks pretty good but some questions.

1 Not worried about room size, it's medium and not going to seriously crank it up.

2 Probably about 50/50 music and HT, is this a good budget front set?

3 What sub?? Looking in the $300 range, ed subs seem to get some decent reviews.

Thanks, all


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sotaboy* /forum/post/11479226
> 
> 
> Athena B1.2 and C1.2for $200 at audio advisor looks pretty good but some questions.
> 
> 1 Not worried about room size, it's medium and not going to seriously crank it up.
> 
> 2 Probably about 50/50 music and HT, is this a good budget front set?
> 
> 3 What sub?? Looking in the $300 range, ed subs seem to get some decent reviews.
> 
> Thanks, all



Doesn't sound like you need much help...good choices.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11477735
> 
> 
> I just got a h/k 147 from harman/kardon Direct on e-Bay so I've been following pricing a little bit: Just in case you're interested in the 247, here's what I noticed:
> 
> 
> - $499 MSRP from Best Buy.
> 
> - $388 refurbished direct from h/k online, + $15 shipping, + tax in some states.
> http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...%20247&status=
> 
> - $350-385 refurbished from h/k Direct on e-Bay (incl. shipping, B4 tax in some states)



Amazon is selling the 247 for $407.19 shipped.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11479315
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like you need much help...good choices.



agreed...the athenas are a great deal at $200 for the front three, and teh ED subs seem to deliver killer performance for their price, as long as you don't mind the dull boxy aesthetics.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kex, make sure your DVD player and cablebox are connected to the AVR via digital or HDMI connection. If you're not seeing Dolby Digital or DTS, you're not getting a .1 channel, the sub will be on, but it won't be "OOONNNN'. DVD audio should be set to bitstream, RAW or DD/DTS whatever it's called in the setup menu...cablebox to bitstream. There will be quite a difference...get an SPL meter...3 out of 10 sounds about right...it's not a volume control, it's an attenuator.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're watching Titanic on DVD you definitely shouldn't be using Logic 7. It should be Dolby Digital or DTS. As was said earlier, make sure your digital output on the DVD player is set to bitstream. You'll notice a world of difference.



Thanks guys: that was good information. I did have the coaxial digital audio connection hooked up as explained in the manual, which if I understand it correctly says to hook up the analog L/R connections too. This is exactly what it says for DVD "audio connections":

- DVD Analog Inputs

- 6-Channel Inputs (optional) *and*

- Coax 1 input


So that sounds like the "6-Channel" inputs are optional, but not the other two. In any case, the front panel was definitely displaying "analog", so I went into the setup and turned OFF the AUTO POLL for DVD input, and set audio in to Coaxial 1. I'll see when I next can test this to see if the speaker icons on the front panel show that they are getting 5.1 channel sound or not (I think they are supposed to detect this and display it according to what has been detected).


I also reviewed what the manual says about "Logic 7 Cinema":
_Especially suited to 2-Channel sources containing Dolby Surround or matrix encoding, Logic 7 Cinema mode increases center channel intelligibility._


So, as *afrogt* pointed out, not a good choice to get the most out of the subwoofer with DVD movies, or any other source that is better than stereo.


Logic 7 does seem to do a good job of creating surround effect with stereo CD music though, but I have not tried any of the other modes to really compare. Other users may have other preferences.


----------



## afrogt

I love Logic 7 for expanding 2 channel signals, but DD 5.1 and DTS are discrete and sound much, much better. You'll notice the different when you try it later.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11482467
> 
> 
> I love Logic 7 for expanding 2 channel signals, but DD 5.1 and DTS are discrete and sound much, much better. You'll notice the different when you try it later.



The DVD player was the culprit: I had to go into the sound setup menu to enable digital output in Dolby Digital and DTS. I could then turn AUTO POLL back ON on the AVR and it detects the digital signal automatically. The sound is night and day better. Now this really is a HTiB killer system. I am truly amazed at how well the little Polk Audio Mini Monitors hold up beside the much newer center and the H-100 subwoofer. I actually had to turn the subwoofer down to 2 so that the effects would not be overwhelming. Ron was right: it was ON, now it IS "OOONNNN"!


I even tried, for the fun of it, turning the sub OFF altogether in the h/k setup, and even without the sub, the sound coming out of those little Polks was quite a surprise: they have a whole new lease of life. Adding the sub means that everything sounds better, even at low volume levels. Even -16dB (or 12 o'clock on our old Yamaha) is far too loud for comfort in our mid-sized California living room. The amazing thing is that, whether listening to music or movies, even loud sound is not tiresome: it is powerful melodious sound, not loud noise. This is exactly what I was hoping for on all counts.


I can't imagine that anyone that gets this setup, adding R50s and R150s from Fry's for instance (since they won't have our "legacy" Mini Monitors), could possibly be disappointed or think that they should have just stuck with a HTiB.


Now, I just need to finalize some tweaks so that all the settings seem right for the long term. One little question though: Titanic is in Dolby Digital 5.1 surround EX or 6.1 DTS ES (has to be selected in the DVDs own menu). Which would be the better choice?


----------



## afrogt

Many people prefer the DTS mix in movies when its available. Try em both and tell us what you think.


And if you have access to U-571 or War of the Worlds in DTS, check those out too. It'll give your subwoofer one heck of a workout!


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11488017
> 
> 
> Many people prefer the DTS mix in movies when its available. Try em both and tell us what you think.
> 
> 
> And if you have access to U-571 or War of the Worlds in DTS, check those out too. It'll give your subwoofer one heck of a workout!



I was actually wondering how DTS 6.1 into 5.1 would work, compared to the Dolby Digital, which is 5.1 to start with, but I will certainly give both a try to see!


As for other movies to try: we usually get Netflix, so that shouldn't be a problem. I just used Titanic since we own that one and I remembered that engine room scene (not to mention the fog horn honking at the docks and the chopper scene at the start bringing Rose Dawson/Calvert to the salvage ship. I've heard WOTW mentioned before, and LOTR too ... oh! and Star Wars "Attack of the Clones" for sci-fi fans!


----------



## Markus B

As I sit here debating whether I should wait the four months for the AV123's I ran accross two more speaker systems that I have not seen discussed. The links are provided below:

www.htd.com/level-THREE-Bookshelf-Speakers 

www.axiomaudio.com/epicmidi_125main.html 


The lowest configuration for the Epic's is $1,350 (5.1 setup) which might not qualify as a starter system - but then if I buy just three AV123 xls I've just spent $600; throw in a base and I'm at $1000 anyway. Can anybody speak to these speaker systems?


These aren't even mentioned in the speaker discussion - of course I don't have $5,000 for the stuff of which they speak of. Thanx.


----------



## Markus B

Better Level Threee LInk

http://www.htd.com/cabinet-speakers/...three-speakers 


Markus B.


----------



## barnett25

I have a 12x14 living room with an 8ft ceiling.

I looking at the HK 247 reciever, 4 Athena B1.2s and a C1.2 center.

For a sub I would like to save some money by going with the Velodyne VX-10 rather than the BA H-100 which seems to be at least $100 more.

I am totally new to home theater equipment. I will be watching lots of movies on my new HDTV, but I will also listen to a bit of music (eclectic taste leaning more heavily on classic rock).


Will this setup work well for my needs, and how big a difference will the H-100 sub make over the VX-10? Any other suggestions would also be welcome.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11487518
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I was hoping for on all counts.



I'm glad it's working out for you. I thought you might find the "old" Polks were pretty darned good, coupled with the right setup...enjoy.


----------



## 5TANGER

My luck just sucks.










I got a refurb AVR 247 direct from H/K on eBay (~$380 shipped, including tax), and it has a decent sized blemish on the front. Moreover, they sent me a remote for the AVR 240 which does not have HDMI buttons on it (input selection) so I have to go in the OSD menu to switch between the two HDMI inputs.


----------



## nombrecinq

Is everybody upgrading to receivers with HDMI and all that new crap? I bought a $600 receiver a few years ago, and paying that kind of price I want the thing to last me 20 years at least.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nombrecinq* /forum/post/11490781
> 
> 
> Is everybody upgrading to receivers with HDMI and all that new crap? I bought a $600 receiver a few years ago, and paying that kind of price I want the thing to last me 20 years at least.



this is why i'm a believer in spending more on speakers/sub than the receiver. receivers tend to start lagging in the technology department relatively quickly, while a great set of speakers will last 10 years easy.


it sucks, but it just a fact of life in the AV world. buy the best speakers/sub you can, and an entry level receiver with the features you want. leave those esoteric $1K+ models with all the bells and whistles to those who can afford to throw their money around.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5TANGER* /forum/post/11490686
> 
> 
> My luck just sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got a refurb AVR 247 direct from H/K on eBay (~$380 shipped, including tax), and it has a decent sized blemish on the front. Moreover, they sent me a remote for the AVR 240 which does not have HDMI buttons on it (input selection) so I have to go in the OSD menu to switch between the two HDMI inputs.



5TANGER, I just got an AVR 147 from the same source. I noticed they did not include the EzSet/EQ microphone, so I had to go through the manual setup process. I sent an e-Mail to C.S. and they responded within hours saying they would be sending a new microphone.


There isn't much you can do about the blemish, I suspect though. My unit has a minor scratch on the aluminium part of the front panel, about an inch long, but you would never notice it, except from two feet away, and even then, only because you already knew it was there, so your luck does not seem to have been the best on that particular aspect.


You should be able to switch between HDMI inputs without the OSD though: did you try navigating through the inputs with the front panel "source" rocker?


----------



## chickenthan

hey guys,


so i'm a newb to this whole a/v game, but my parents are remodeling, and want me to put together a decent 5.1 system for around $1,000 bucks. i tried reading some of these threads but to be honest i'm pretty overwhelmed by everything.


the system will primarily be used for movies and games (wii), and some light music use. also, if possibe, it would be nice if the receiver is multi-zone. the theater would be used in a medium sized room with wood floors, looking for some floor standing speakers for the front and center, and wall mounted satellites for the rears. any recommendations or links to a newb thread would be appreciated. thanks guys!


----------



## bvalter1964

I am setting a new system 7.1 fir my home. For the speakers I was thinkhing on the Pioneer SHF21LR (30 $ a pair) 5 1/4" 2-ways bookshelf for the 6 satellite and on the Pioneer SHF11C (60$) 5 1/4" for the center.

On the paper they seem better and cheaper of the Polks suggested in this thread.

Has anybody tried them?

Valter


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bvalter1964* /forum/post/11499851
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> On the paper they seem better and cheaper of the Polks suggested in this thread.
> 
> ...
> 
> Valter



I am not sure why you say that. At 80dB (L/R) and 85db (center) sensitivity, they are theoretically massively less efficient than any Polk, even the cheapest ones (which rate 89 or 90dB). You can see what Crutchfield Advisor says about sensitivity here and why 80 to 89 is a really whopping difference:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/IS...rs_faq.html#11 


This is why the Polk pairs sold for $50 are such an incredible deal compared to the Pioneers IMO, but I have never heard the Pioneers. Perhaps somebody else can correct me if I am wrong about this.


----------



## afrogt

80db sensitivity is really inefficient. It'll take a bit more power to drive them vs a 89db sensitivity speaker. As far as sound quality, you'd have to listen for yourself.


Those Pioneers are $19/pr at Circuit City today, so it wouldn't hurt to listen to them yourself. You can always take them back.


----------



## 5TANGER




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11491769
> 
> 
> 5TANGER, I just got an AVR 147 from the same source. I noticed they did not include the EzSet/EQ microphone, so I had to go through the manual setup process. I sent an e-Mail to C.S. and they responded within hours saying they would be sending a new microphone.
> 
> 
> There isn't much you can do about the blemish, I suspect though. My unit has a minor scratch on the aluminium part of the front panel, about an inch long, but you would never notice it, except from two feet away, and even then, only because you already knew it was there, so your luck does not seem to have been the best on that particular aspect.
> 
> 
> You should be able to switch between HDMI inputs without the OSD though: did you try navigating through the inputs with the front panel "source" rocker?



Yeah, I emailed them Friday night, I was polite and they replied TODAY (Sunday) saying they will send me the proper remote right away.


I didn't know about the blemishes. After I saw it I went back to the auction and read the fine print.







Nothing I can do.... But it's not visible even during the day from any normal viewing distance even if you know it's there. You'd have to sit in front of the receiver to see it, and you'd still have to be looking for it if the light's dim. It looks like someone took a piece of sand paper and lightly scratched a small X shape on the front panel under the AVR 247 badge.










About switching inputs, yes - the OSD works, and the input selector buttons on the front work as well, but that's not very convenient, is it?










I actually solved the problem with a Logitech Harmony 550 universal remote.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5TANGER* /forum/post/11501886
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I actually solved the problem with a Logitech Harmony 550 universal remote.



Probably the best remote to control this stuff anyway if you have one (the h/k remotes aren't great IMO, but no worse than most AVR remotes either ... possibly even better than many, but it's hard to match a Harmony).


Glad you got it sorted out though! Post back and tell us how happy you are with the whole setup.


----------



## 5TANGER

I will...


Still waiting for the second R50 from Frys.com, and my Elite 110FD.


----------



## sotaboy

Posted this in subwoofer forum, but would also like comments here, since it's completing budget HT system, and the people here are different than subwoof thread.ED subs questions. I am not a fanatic, just someone looking to get a sub for HT/music. I like the ed lineup but not sure which one. I prefer the 10 inch subs, for smaller size, and even tho they won't go as low as the 12 inch, I doubt I will notice much difference. Is this true? And for the 10 inch, is it worth it to go for the A3 over the A2, for the more powerful amp? Medium size room, and not looking to to kill it with sound, just want something that sounds nice. Thanks for any input.


----------



## chickenthan

hey guys,


so I did some research and poking around, and think I have an idea of what I want, just wanted to bounce it off you guys since I think y'all know a lot more than me. = ) So I think I want to go with the HK 347 with the X-LS, X-SLS, X-CS combo.


now the room it's going to be in is around 15'x14'. Is this system going to be overkill for a space that small? like i mentioned earlier, it'll prob be primarily used for movies and gaming. thanks


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sotaboy* /forum/post/11504346
> 
> 
> Posted this in subwoofer forum, but would also like comments here, since it's completing budget HT system, and the people here are different than subwoof thread.ED subs questions. I am not a fanatic, just someone looking to get a sub for HT/music. I like the ed lineup but not sure which one. I prefer the 10 inch subs, for smaller size, and even tho they won't go as low as the 12 inch, I doubt I will notice much difference. Is this true? And for the 10 inch, is it worth it to go for the A3 over the A2, for the more powerful amp? Medium size room, and not looking to to kill it with sound, just want something that sounds nice. Thanks for any input.



Start a dialog with the eD guys...either Chris or Alex. I haven't heard any of their subs, craigsub has and he tells they are quality. Your room, if sealed, will be fine for the smallest eD sub...looks like an exceptional value. Bass is very addictive, from personal experience I'd advise you to go the the biggest and best you can afford...don't worry about size unless you don't have any space. Their budget sweespot is the A2-300.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11505598
> 
> 
> ... Your room, if sealed, will be fine for the smallest eD sub...



Ron,


I am wondering why having the room sealed is important. My HT room opens to the kitchen on the right and a hallway on right back corner. Will I run into any problems because of this?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/11513432
> 
> 
> Ron,
> 
> 
> I am wondering why having the room sealed is important. My HT room opens to the kitchen on the right and a hallway on right back corner. Will I run into any problems because of this?



Sometimes folks are disappointed or just don't know what there missing if they undersub. I've seen complaints about well regarded subs where people with 10,000cubic feet expect miracles when they should have gone either much bigger or with multiples. A sealed room is the easiest to activate and pressurize even at low volume. You feel the floor and seats vibrate and the sound pressure on your skin...it usually brings a big grin and is very addictive. Even the smallest eD sub might work great for you, but chances are the smaller the space you fill the better the experience will be.


I've gone through a bunch of subs in the last 3 years in a 2000 cube room that opens into another 5500. Because of the layout each performed pretty well congruent to it's price point, dual subs were much better when I had them, but weren't essential. Just get a quality sub at whatever your budget can stand. More is always better even if you aren't trying to crumble foundations, better bass, control and blend makes the music and HT experience. You can always add another one down the road.


----------



## Mike Freas

Ok guys. This is my first post but I have done some reading in this and other threads. I'm not a noob and know the difference between s video and HDMI but haven't been in the market for any kind of good HT stuff for at least 10 years.


Here is my situation.


My HT receiver decided to take a dump. A call to the local repair place said it's going to cost more then it's worth to fix. It's a Yamaha 5.1 more then 5 years old but I don't remember the exact model number.


My speakers are fairly good for 1993 vintage (Infinity SM 115's). My sub is an MTX 12" 300 watt they don't make anymore. This thing will damn near push the windows out in my living room and I hardly have it set at more then 1/4 on the gain. My center channel is also Infinity, again, I don't remember the model number. My surround speakers are MTX book shelve units that are crap. Note:Keeping the speakers isn't really an option, I'm moving into a smaller place in HI next year.


I decided to go out and purchase a HTIB system figuring I could get something good for about 350 bucks. I picked up a JVC TH-C60 for 350 bucks new. This thing sounded like crap and I knew right away I made a mistake. Back to the store it went.


I'm willing to save and buy things one piece at a time. I have a good idea of what I want in a receiver already. I need/want speakers that are small enough to keep the wife happy but still sound good.


Also, I'm in the Navy and move every three years or so. I don't have the ability to run wire through the walls like I want and external wiring is ugly. Is there an easy solution to this problem?


Thanks for any and all help


----------



## JeffG02

Wow what a great thread! Much thanks to all have that participated...as my eyes are gonna hurt for a while now I've read so much on here. I just want a little advice on what receiver to get, and this thread seems like my best bet to get a suggestion or some advice.


I've pretty much made up my mind (not totally...but almost) on speakers. I'm going to get the HSU performance I


HSU Ventriloquist VT-12

HSU STF-1 subwoofer


Now, i'm at a loss for what receiver to get. I have a D* HD/DVR receiver and a Tosh. A2 HD DVD player. My TV has two HDMI inputs, so, i'm thinking i'll route video via HDMI directly to TV and audio to receiver. Should I reconsider? I don't mind switching inputs on the TV when i switch back and forth.


The receiver that i've mainly been looking at is the Onkyo SR505. Looks like I can get it new for $235 shipped. Also, I was looking at the SR504, reconditioned for $175 shipped. Will I be able to fully take advantage of the audio from the HD DVD player?


Thanks so much all for your help!


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffG02* /forum/post/11541837
> 
> 
> Wow what a great thread! Much thanks to all have that participated...as my eyes are gonna hurt for a while now I've read so much on here. I just want a little advice on what receiver to get, and this thread seems like my best bet to get a suggestion or some advice.
> 
> 
> I've pretty much made up my mind (not totally...but almost) on speakers. I'm going to get the HSU performance I
> 
> 
> HSU Ventriloquist VT-12
> 
> HSU STF-1 subwoofer
> 
> 
> Now, i'm at a loss for what receiver to get. I have a D* HD/DVR receiver and a Tosh. A2 HD DVD player. My TV has two HDMI inputs, so, i'm thinking i'll route video via HDMI directly to TV and audio to receiver. Should I reconsider? I don't mind switching inputs on the TV when i switch back and forth.
> 
> 
> The receiver that i've mainly been looking at is the Onkyo SR505. Looks like I can get it new for $235 shipped. Also, I was looking at the SR504, reconditioned for $175 shipped. Will I be able to fully take advantage of the audio from the HD DVD player?
> 
> 
> Thanks so much all for your help!



I am quite happy with my Onkyo SR605 ($399 shipped from J&R). Audyssey is a nice feature for us newbies and I don't believe it is on the SR504. As far as the HSU speakers go I would spend the $50 more and go for the Performance 2 package. I am happy with mine. Of course the VTF subs are even nicer if you can part with even more money.


----------



## JeffG02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Movie Fan* /forum/post/11542734
> 
> 
> I am quite happy with my Onkyo SR605 ($399 shipped from J&R). Audyssey is a nice feature for us newbies and I don't believe it is on the SR504. As far as the HSU speakers go I would spend the $50 more and go for the Performance 2 package. I am happy with mine. Of course the VTF subs are even nicer if you can part with even more money.



What about the 604? You think it'd be worth the extra $150 or so to go from the 504 to the 604 for the Audyssey feature? I ask because right now I can get the 504 reconditioned from an authorized onkyo dealer for $119 shipped (just found it)!


----------



## evan_s

Personally I'd say go with something fairly cheap, the reconditioned 504 seems to fit that bill, that you know isn't going to have all the fancy feature you might want like HDMI switching with audio processing via HDMI, upconversion to hdmi, Auto setup features, preamps out etc or spend the money to get a receiver that has all the features you could want. Personally I went the cheap route since the receivers that had all the features I wanted were just outta my price range.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffG02* /forum/post/11543315
> 
> 
> What about the 604? You think it'd be worth the extra $150 or so to go from the 504 to the 604 for the Audyssey feature? I ask because right now I can get the 504 reconditioned from an authorized onkyo dealer for $119 shipped (just found it)!



the 605 becomes attractive considering it will process the new lossless audio formats like Dolby TrueHD, etc. over HDMI. if you want to take advantage of that high resolution audio with the Tosh A2, you'll need this capability in your receiver, since the A2 doesn't have multichannel analog outputs for PCM audio.


if you're content with good old dolby digital/DTS, the 504 would probably be the best value. it has the majority of the power and features that the 505/604 have, but at a great price. just run your HDMI cables to the display, and digital audio cables to the receiver.


IMO, for your situation, it comes down to how bad you want lossless audio. is it worth the $200+ it will cost to get a capable receiver such as the 605? that's up to you.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/11543965
> 
> 
> the 605 becomes attractive considering it will process the new lossless audio formats like Dolby TrueHD, etc. over HDMI. ...
> 
> 
> if you're content with good old dolby digital/DTS, the 504 would probably be the best value. it has the majority of the power and features that the 505/604 have, but at a great price. ...
> 
> 
> IMO, for your situation, it comes down to how bad you want lossless audio. is it worth the $200+ it will cost to get a capable receiver such as the 605? ...



... and having that capability is useless if there is not enough content available to make use of it! Check it out to see if you think it's worth the $200. Otherwise, that money might be better spent on better speakers. For the price of the 504 that you found, you can always upgrade later when things settle down a bit (regarding HD formats, players, and HD audio).


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffG02* /forum/post/11543315
> 
> 
> What about the 604? You think it'd be worth the extra $150 or so to go from the 504 to the 604 for the Audyssey feature? I ask because right now I can get the 504 reconditioned from an authorized onkyo dealer for $119 shipped (just found it)!



For that price get it while it is hot. You can always upgrade later and have a backup for if (when) it breaks.


PS: for me it was the Audyssey and the upconversion that sold me on the 605. The extra wattage didn't hurt either. But with my income I won't really miss a couple hundred dollars I just don't like buying more than I need for the principle of it. I don't intend to replace my equipment for 10 years (if it will last that long).


----------



## Glottis

This is a really helpful thread. I'm totally new to this field, and I plan to get an HDTV before long so I want to start setting up a (budget) home theater sound system. Music is really important, so my first goal is to get a 2.1 system + a receiver that is capable of doing at least 5.1 later on (once I get the TV, other speakers, etc). I'd like to spend under $600 at this time.


I mainly listen to rock, some acoustic stuff, some bass-heavy music... so I was thinking that I need to get a subwoofer. My plan was to get 2 bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer and eventually purchase larger, floor-standing speakers and retire the bookshelf speakers to surround.


What I really want to know is if anyone has any particular recommendations for a warm, inexpensive, bassy setup that is still clean in the mids and highs. I need a receiver, 2 speakers, and a subwoofer.


I've been looking at the following:

Onkyo TX-SR505S (Refurb) - $239

Polk R150 - $50


However, I'm not sure about which subwoofer would go well with the Polks or if the Polks are any good for music at all.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## dbeng

It's time to say a Thank You to everybody who has contributed to this thread!! Like many I stumbled across thid thread while looking for more information on HTIB systems. I was looking to upgrade from an old Yamaha mini system with built in pro-logic.


Around early July I started reading the thread and learining more and more. Many thanks to Ron Temple for his information regarding the AV123 products and HK receivers on e-bay.


I took the plunge and got on the waiting list for some av123 speakers and am thoroughly enjoying the following set up:


X-sls Mains

X-cs center

HK AVR-340 (From HK direct on E-Bay)

Onkyo DV-CP704 6-disk DVD / CD player

Existing Yamaha Bookshelf speakers as surrounds

Existing 8" Yamaha Sub


Total price - excluding Yamaha parts of course! $823 ($983 including shipping on all of the items)


The sound quality of the combination is outstanding, I love to listen to CD's I have owned for years and notice how 'real' a piano sounds or hear some additional sounds I never noticed before! And for movies, the big x-cs comes into it's own and sounds fantastic. There was a long wait for the speakers as expected, but the pictures and reviews I had seen convinced me it would be worth the wait.


Budget wise, it ended up more than I set out to spend, but the result is IMO well worth the expense! I'm so happy I found this thread!!


Thanks G-Star for setting up this thread and to everybody who has contributed so much valuable information.


----------



## jimmy25

Well, I have been reading, re-reading this whole post all week. Missed out on a lot of sleep, as i had been figuring out which HTIB to get when i stumbled upon this site/thread. Well, needless to say, all my HTIB research switched to building a budget home theatre thanks to the thread, as do many others after reading the great info compiled here. Thanks to all who contributed info. I just ordered the following to start my system out:


ONKYO 574 (refurb) $139

Athena b1.2 L/R $99 pr

Athena c1.2 Center $99

C-ST speaker stand $39


I wondered about a sub? I eventually will get floorstanders to go with this setup and move the bookshelves to rears, or perhaps just get another set of the bookshelves, and spend more on the sub. I thought i would wait to check out the bookshelves first. But i digress, looking for sub advice. I have seen/read different suggestions, and am wondering which sub to go with for a 15 by 15 room? The BIC h100, Dayton 10", or Athena p4100, or velodyne i belive are the below 250 subs commonly named within my range? I don't think i have come accross any info on the Athena. Any suggestions? Should i buy F1.2 towers, and spend less on the sub (dayton or velodyne) or stick with the idea of 4 b1.2s and getting the Bic? Or of course, any other suggestions welcome!


Thanks again, as i am totally enjoying jumping in to the HTIB alternative world!


----------



## jimmy25

Well, scratch that question about which sub to get. Again, many thanks to this and other AVS Forum pages which i am continuing to use and learn from, i was able to get a b-stock av13 x-sub for $150! Kinda makes the question moot, cause i am positive by looking at anything else under 200, that this is/was a great deal. Now i just have to wait til next week when all my components are here to enjoy. Now the only issue i will have would be deciding whether to get floorstanders F1.2s, or go with another pair of the bookshelves. Although i was able to answer my earlier question myself...well, thanks to a link from another thread that is...i would like to again thank everyone for all this awesome info in one place to help the newbies, and others considering falling into the HTIB trap. A little "leg" work, and i am sure now i should have a system that'll blow away the Onkyo htib i had set my mind upon getting. Sorry flags(RIP).


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jimmy25* /forum/post/11567388
> 
> 
> Now the only issue i will have would be deciding whether to get floorstanders F1.2s, or go with another pair of the bookshelves.



this is really a matter of personal taste and budget, IMO. properly integrated into your system, either the bookshelves or floorstanders will sound good. the floostanders might be better if you listen to a lot of 2 channel music and are thinking about adding on some external amplification down the road. that said, the B1's with the AV123 sub calibrated and crossed over correctly will be a great budget system for music and HT. its really up to you.


sounds like a nice system...enjoy your new HT.


----------



## Glottis

What about Radiient's speaker sets? They seem like a great deal, and I liked the way the Insignia speakers at best buy sounded... I can imagine that the floor standing speakers would also be nice.


$400, free shipping for towers that seem to be as nice as these...
http://www.radiient.com/Helios-5-Cha...c=2&category=6


----------



## Warder45

Hey all,


I've been looking at a budget system to use in my bedroom. The room is 11'x11' with 8' ceilings. Space is at a premium. What suggestions do you guys have?


I was initially looking at a set of computer speakers like the Logitech Z-5500 to save space as it has a small receiver. However I did not like the sound from Logitech last gen version. So I've started looking at speaker sets. What do people think of the Athena Micra-6? or the Polk RM6750?


----------



## JeffG02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Warder45* /forum/post/11591082
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> 
> I've been looking at a budget system to use in my bedroom. The room is 11'x11' with 8' ceilings. Space is at a premium. What suggestions do you guys have?
> 
> 
> I was initially looking at a set of computer speakers like the Logitech Z-5500 to save space as it has a small receiver. However I did not like the sound from Logitech last gen version. So I've started looking at speaker sets. What do people think of the Athena Micra-6? or the Polk RM6750?



I am very new at all of this..so I basically have no room to even give a recommendation since I don't even OWN anything yet. But I will offer up what I've decided on, as its probably on a page back from here.


I've heard/read rave reviews on the HSU research VT-12 6.1 setup with the STF-1 sub. www.hsuresearch.com . They are a satellite system, but supposedly put out very nice sound for the size. The size and sound quality is what made me decide on them, I guess we'll find out sometime soon if it was a good choice.


As far as a receiver goes, you can read my earlier posts...I had enough HDMI inputs on my TV for what I was going to hook up I just got an Onkyo 504 for $179 new, free shipped.


----------



## shapsplace

Thanks for such a wondering and informative thread. That said, the little hair that I had left in my head has now been pulled out.










Last week I purchased a Panasonic Plasma (TH-50PH9UK). This TV is the one that doesn't come with speakers, stand or HDMI. I did add a HDMI source to it and now I am looking for the speakers/home theater to acompany it.


I have room that is 16x16 with 10 foot ceilings. The room opens up into our kitchen as well Currently, the HDMI source is being used by my Time Warner HD DVR box. Other then the DVR box and my PS2, I do not have anything. I am ISO receiver, speakers, DVD player, etc. I will probably purchase either a wii or a PS3, so I should be able to figure the DVD part out. Do you have any recommendations for receivers, speakers, etc? I would like to be able to use my IPOD through the system, if possible. I am willing to spend over $1000 but prefer to stay under, if possible. Thanks a million in advance. CMS


----------



## Warder45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffG02* /forum/post/11592114
> 
> 
> I am very new at all of this..so I basically have no room to even give a recommendation since I don't even OWN anything yet. But I will offer up what I've decided on, as its probably on a page back from here.
> 
> 
> I've heard/read rave reviews on the HSU research VT-12 6.1 setup with the STF-1 sub. www.hsuresearch.com . They are a satellite system, but supposedly put out very nice sound for the size. The size and sound quality is what made me decide on them, I guess we'll find out sometime soon if it was a good choice.
> 
> 
> As far as a receiver goes, you can read my earlier posts...I had enough HDMI inputs on my TV for what I was going to hook up I just got an Onkyo 504 for $179 new, free shipped.



Those just made my list as well. They are a little more expensive then the Micra-6's and maybe overkill for my bedroom. But I have 2 to 4 weeks to decide so I look forward to your review when you get them.


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Warder45* /forum/post/11594404
> 
> 
> Those just made my list as well. They are a little more expensive then the Micra-6's and maybe overkill for my bedroom. But I have 2 to 4 weeks to decide so I look forward to your review when you get them.



When considering the VT-12 for your bedroom be sure to keep in mind the dimensions of the center channel and where you will put it. IMO it is too deep to wall mount. I considered a shelf above my PDP but ended up putting it in the entertainment center which puts it at lower than ideal hight but looks great.


----------



## mbimpod

I figured it makes sense to run my planned setup by people here who know more than I ever will..


I am working out of a relatively large room and planning to utilize a 7.1 system with the 2 front channels being floorstanding.


Receiver - Panasonic XR55 or Onkyo TXSR504 or Onkyo TXSR574

Subwoofer - X-sub

Center - unknown

Fronts - Polk R50 x 2

4 surrounds - Insignia NS-B111 (2 sets of 2)


I had three outstanding considerations, first which receiver would work best. Second, what would be a recommended center channel given my fronts? Last, would I be better off with this or with a 5.1 with only one set of Insignias?


----------



## Mike Freas

MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE!


I have been reading and researching threads for about two weeks and I still can't make a decision. My wife gave the go ahead for a 1000 budget and I'm doing my best to keep it. She wants small speakers so with that in mind I have the following ideas


HSU performance 2 package 595.00 shipped

Onkyo 505 for 219(referb) or 605 399(referb)

Logitec 880 75-130 on ebay (I already have bids on this)


I'm also watching a set of SVS speakers (3) but the price just jumped to 200 bucks so add another 2 for the rear and a good sub and I'm over budget.


Anyway...thought I'd post. I'm actually having more fun looking for stuff then anything. I'd better decided so I can really work at work!!!


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Freas* /forum/post/11615603
> 
> 
> MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE!
> 
> 
> I have been reading and researching threads for about two weeks and I still can't make a decision. My wife gave the go ahead for a 1000 budget and I'm doing my best to keep it. She wants small speakers so with that in mind I have the following ideas
> 
> 
> HSU performance 2 package 595.00 shipped
> 
> Onkyo 505 for 219(referb) or 605 399(referb)
> 
> Logitec 880 75-130 on ebay (I already have bids on this)
> 
> 
> I'm also watching a set of SVS speakers (3) but the price just jumped to 200 bucks so add another 2 for the rear and a good sub and I'm over budget.
> 
> 
> Anyway...thought I'd post. I'm actually having more fun looking for stuff then anything. I'd better decided so I can really work at work!!!



You can get the onkyo 605 new for $399 shipped.
http://www.gosale.com/4932026/onkyo-...FRyOFQodvnxiwQ 



HSU package is nice. Another alternative is the KEF 2005 which normally goes for $999 and Circuit City has it on sale for $499.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/KEF-H...oductDetail.do 


I suspect the HSU sub is better because its larger but you should at least listen to the KEF system since they have it in stores.


I bet you are having fun researching!


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Freas* /forum/post/11615603
> 
> 
> MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE!
> 
> ...
> 
> Logitec 880 75-130 on ebay (I already have bids on this)
> 
> ...



Your head may be going to explode, but I think you are enjoying yourself too!


I just thought I would mention that you can get the Logitech Harmony 880 new on amazon.com for about $130. I would NOT suggest paying more than $100 on e-Bay since they may not be perfectly functioning units (some of these units have had problems with faulty buttons and/or charging base stations). Even if Logictech c/s is generally excellent, there is only so much they can reasonably be expected to do if the unit is (a) out of warranty by more than a few weeks/months, and (b) bought used on e-Bay.


You could also consider the 720 for $120 new from Costco if it's in stock (and you have access to the store as a member or know somebody who can get it for you).


Otherwise, the 550 is a reasonable compromise for about $80 new on amazon.com.


----------



## Mike Freas

Thanks for the input on the remotes. I may just spend the extra money and get a new unit. There are many many listings for 130 or so bucks. I like the 880 and the features so I think I'll stick with it.


The KEF's are tempting but the reviews of the HSU stuff are really good. I'd like to be able to spend a grand for a better set of speakers but then I wouldn't have anything to run them with.


----------



## Mike Freas

Well after all that time I placed two orders this morning


Onkyo 605(new) for 375.49 shipped. Thanks for the link afrogt!


HSU reasearch performance 2 637.55 shipped. I didn't realize they were here in CA so I got hit with the tax.


So I'm 13.04 over budget without my remote. I'm still going to order that though. Thanks to AVS and all you guys for the advise. I'll be back when I want to upgrade!!


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Any recommendations on a good match for a 5.1 setup with good towers and satellites for the surround.


This is what i had in mind :

Polk R50 mains (x2)

Polk CS2 center

SUB - undicided?????

Polk RM6801 satellite surrounds (to be wall mounted) (x2)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6801/ 


Do you think this will work ok?


----------



## Movie Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Freas* /forum/post/11622869
> 
> 
> Well after all that time I placed two orders this morning
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605(new) for 375.49 shipped. Thanks for the link afrogt!
> 
> 
> HSU reasearch performance 2 637.55 shipped. I didn't realize they were here in CA so I got hit with the tax.
> 
> 
> So I'm 13.04 over budget without my remote. I'm still going to order that though. Thanks to AVS and all you guys for the advise. I'll be back when I want to upgrade!!



That is what I have and have been pretty happy with it. I would suggest that you purchase the warranty extension on the sub electronics, however. For $45 it gives you a total of 5 years on the electronics (leaving you with a additional 2 years on the speaker). FWIW my sub amp died within an hour of plugging it in.


----------



## Mike Freas

I didn't even think about the warranty extension when I purchased it. Perhaps I could call and get it. Well...maybe not. If the sub craps out after two years it's an excuse to upgrade right?


Now that I have everything on order the waiting game starts. My speakers should be here this week but my Onkyo is coming from NY so it may not be here until the 25th. Hopefully I get some order conformations tomorrow and some tracking numbers. I really can't wait to play and even the wife is happy we have small speakers coming!


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GadgetBoy2007* /forum/post/11631277
> 
> 
> Any recommendations on a good match for a 5.1 setup with good towers and satellites for the surround.
> 
> 
> This is what i had in mind :
> 
> Polk R50 mains (x2)
> 
> Polk CS2 center
> 
> SUB - undicided?????
> 
> Polk RM6801 satellite surrounds (to be wall mounted) (x2)
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6801/
> 
> 
> Do you think this will work ok?



It seems to me that you are off to a good start! I would just suggest the following:

- Polk RM6801 specs: decent, but not hot http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rm6801/ 

- Polk R150 specs: much hotter http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/r150/ 

- R150s sell for $50 a pair at Frys, so why not go for those instead?!


As for the sub:

- Acoustech H100, $239 on e-Bay shipped http://www.acoustechspeakers.com/sho...pe=8&spkrID=26 

- Velodyne VX-10C, $150 from Fry's http://shop3.outpost.com/product/467...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


With either of these subs and the R150s, you have a great system for a great price.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Thanks Kex


I will look into these, however I was trying to get satellites for the rear speakers to be wall mounted. The R150's seem rather large.


----------



## ROG_Firehawk

I've been looking for a 5.1 speaker set to start a new home theatre with, budget of $300-$400 for the speakers themselves. Lots of good information here, but unfortunately everything I become interested in is long gone now! I was looking at the Athena Micra 6's, and then the Velodyne CHT Frontrow but I can't really find either now. (I know you can order the velodynes direct over the phone...but I live in Canada so it could be very tough). Any suggestions on what set I should look into? Thanks in advance


----------



## Florida_Gator

The R50s sound GREAT with a CSR center and R150 surrounds. All perfectly voice-matched. I just put together a system with all these (plus an Onkyo 505 receiver) and am very happy with the results. I don't think the little sats (for surrounds) would sound right (or at least, not as good).


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROG_Firehawk* /forum/post/11641566
> 
> 
> I've been looking for a 5.1 speaker set to start a new home theatre with, budget of $300-$400 for the speakers themselves. Lots of good information here, but unfortunately everything I become interested in is long gone now! I was looking at the Athena Micra 6's, and then the Velodyne CHT Frontrow but I can't really find either now. (I know you can order the velodynes direct over the phone...but I live in Canada so it could be very tough). Any suggestions on what set I should look into? Thanks in advance



Athena Micra here:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=1ATMICRA6 


Don't know about shipping to Canada. U could probably call them.


Also look at the Polk RM 6750 which can be found for $250 in the U.S.


----------



## ROG_Firehawk

Thanks for the input, keep it coming if you guys have any more ideas. I'll give audioadvisor a call this week and see what they charge for shipping to Canada, those Micras look really sweet.


Question though, I know sometimes it's unfair to generalize on brand quality as a whole, but I read on a newsgroup publication that Polk falls under the class of "not as good as Bose" (link found here.... http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/stereo/bosefaq.htm ) . I've never compared the two, although I'm well aware that would probably be an insult to Polk, so is that just inaccurate or does it have some truth to it? It's so hard to tell what online is editorial and what is factual.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROG_Firehawk* /forum/post/11642796
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input, keep it coming if you guys have any more ideas. I'll give audioadvisor a call this week and see what they charge for shipping to Canada, those Micras look really sweet.
> 
> 
> Question though, I know sometimes it's unfair to generalize on brand quality as a whole, but I read on a newsgroup publication that Polk falls under the class of "not as good as Bose" (link found here.... http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/stereo/bosefaq.htm ) . I've never compared the two, although I'm well aware that would probably be an insult to Polk, so is that just inaccurate or does it have some truth to it? It's so hard to tell what online is editorial and what is factual.



A Bose FAQ from 95??? What did you think they'd say. It's just marketing spin. You can find Bose and Polk in many retail outlets...go listen and compare.


----------



## ROG_Firehawk

You know what Ron I actually didn't notice the date on it! Thanks for pointing that out. Did you read the article though? I think you're thinking that the FAQ is a Bose fanboy article, but the FAQ's not actually about how mighty Bose is; it focuses more on it's weaknesses and marketing ploys. Which is why I was wondering about the polk opinion they offered since that FAQ was mostly picking Bose apart. Anyways, I'm trying more to focus on finding a place that has the Athenas or Velodynes or even HSU Research sets, and Polk was completely off my radar until now which is why I asked.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROG_Firehawk* /forum/post/11647617
> 
> 
> You know what Ron I actually didn't notice the date on it! Thanks for pointing that out. Did you read the article though? I think you're thinking that the FAQ is a Bose fanboy article, but the FAQ's not actually about how mighty Bose is; it focuses more on it's weaknesses and marketing ploys. Which is why I was wondering about the polk opinion they offered since that FAQ was mostly picking Bose apart. Anyways, I'm trying more to focus on finding a place that has the Athenas or Velodynes or even HSU Research sets, and Polk was completely off my radar until now which is why I asked.



I'm not a fan of sat systems, so I really can't point you toward any particular killer system. I think they all are pretty decent. That being said, I know Polk doesn't make anything but quality at it's price point...the various RM lines, if you can find them discounted will compete with the Athenas and Velos. The Hsu setup has the advantage of a really nice sub included.


----------



## ROG_Firehawk

I'll probably go have a look at the Polk's, I just have to find a good store that sells them. I'd like to get my hands on the HSU Performance I's but I don't think they ship to Canada, which is why I was really hoping for the Micras cause I know they used to be marketed here


----------



## snookalo

Well, after two of my HTIB speakers have blown(not really blown as much as damage due to AWS), I decided to get some real speakers. I guess for now I'm gonna keep the reciever and hook these up. I'll give it a try and see how they sound, but I'm pretty pumped about the new set-up. No new sub yet, keeping the sony I currently have, but I'll get one of those later. Last night I pulled the trigger and got two R-50's, two R300's and a CSR center. All together it cost me 456.08 with shipping. I actually saved 4 dollars by shipping seperate. I hoping to be blown away compared to my little satellite speakers. Thanks to everyone on here for this thread and for suggesting frys.


----------



## onebxr

Well I started on my bedroom home entertainment center this evening. I am going to try out the Radiient calypso's and see how they sound. I got a pretty good deal on a Onkyo 604 from Ecost for 263.86 after shipping and taxes. So my total for 5 speakers and a receiver was 462.86. This will not be a bad price if what average joe said was true about the speakers. Now I just gotta wait for the wife to see the charges come up on the visa bill.









It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

-Rich


----------



## snookalo

Or you can barter before hand like I did, no chance for AWS to kick in. Paying for someone to clean our house for the speakers, pretty good deal


----------



## wes_pierce

Just took the jump into the HD deep in and got a new Sony KDS-60A3000, Sony Blu-Ray, and Series 3 Tivo. Because of that I'm all set with regards to the video side of the house, but when it comes to audio that's a different story.


I've got a old Sony HTIB system from 1996 that is destined to end up in my office to play CD's an run my old Sony TV.


I want a receiver and speakers that will top off my new system. I kicked around the idea of getting another HTIB, but it seems to me that if you pick and choose your components you should be able to get more bang for your buck, especially when I don't need a DVD player. I'm thinking about spending 500-1000 for the reciever and speakers, but have no idea where to begin. I'm in an apartment while I'm house hunting, so no need for a sub right now but want something that I can crank when I get out of thin wall hell...


Any advice would be very appreciated, and as the title said your word will be pretty much gospel...










The Newbie


----------



## u4ea

While I start to read this thread. I wanted to ask for some ideas for my specific situation... Currently have a budget of about $1k to buy a AV receiver and some speakers. More info posted here... My other thread 

*My current setup consists of the following:*

65" Mitsu WD65833 DLP TV (HDMI 1.3)

Dish Network vip722 HDDVR (HDMI)

Sony DVD Player DVP-NS775V (Component)

I will also most likely move my xBox 360 to this setup from my bedroom

Also... I will eventually replace the DVD player with either Blue Ray or HD DVD

*Receivers Im looking at so far:*

Onkyo 605

Yamaha 661

*Speakers Im looking at so far:*

No idea really need help with this big time

*What I am looking for out of the system:*

Being a newbie in the A/V world, I just want to get the best possible picture and audio out to the TV & speakers. Since I am on a budget I don't mind spending more on a smaller number of high quality speakers than buy more low quality speakers.


My big concern is if i setup rear surround speakers I'm not sure how I would run wire to them... I don't have carpet/or rug to run the wires under. I am not super handy so I don't want to rip holes in the drywall at this point.

*Questions I Have*

1. Based on the equipment I currently own, which receiver would be better for my application?

2. Are there any major issues with either of these receivers? If so what are they?

3. Considering I can buy the 605 or 661 for less than $400 at Amazon, what would be the best speakers I could buy for $600 or less?

*Info about my family room...*

Tile Floor / no carpet

Approx 15' wide x 17' long

We sit about 13' away from the TV

Ceilings are 12' or so high

Room is an open floor plan so it opens up directly to kitchen and dining area


Please let me know your thoughts on my situation. I don't mind only getting front speakers for now (R/L Front, center, sub) and adding additional speakers later for 7.1 (once I figure what to do about the wires).


Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


-u4ea


----------



## Digerati.

Just got Athena Micra 6's off of ebay for 150 shipped... friggin sweet. ;]


----------



## u4ea

I just picked up a 605 at a bigbox chain store by my office $420 out the door w/tax.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *u4ea* /forum/post/11682458
> 
> 
> I just picked up a 605 at a bigbox chain store by my office $420 out the door w/tax.



so you've got about $600 left for 5 speakers and a sub? personally, i would recommend getting the best sub you can manage...maybe the Bic H-100, x-sub, or maybe even one of the new elemental designs units for $350 or less. there are some good deals right now on athena speakers as the line is being closed out. the popular polks and the like are usually available for a good price if you look around enough. i'm not sure if you've got enough room in your budget, but one of the HSU performance a packages might be a good option too.


read a few pages of this thread...a lot of good ideas floating around here.


----------



## mosuavea

Looking to upgrade my Onkyo 790 incrementally and plan to start with the speakers.


Currently live in an aprtment, first floor in a small complex, no shared walls in the living room. Seated distance is roughly 12', room size is 16x16x8 ish without getting a tape measure out. 50" DLP if that matters at all and primary usage is 80% TV/Movies, 15% 360 and 5% music.


Want to buy something that will be able to move to the rears when moving into a house (year or so) and want to stick with bookshelves over towers for the time being.


After wading through various threads, I narrowed it down to a few speakers, budget around 300 for the L/C/R in no particular order...


Athena B1.2s + C1.2 (230 ish)

Elemental Designs (3)MTM-5T5 (300)

Boston Acoustics CR67B + CRC7 or CS1 center (about 300 with a coupon locally at CC)


and an outlyer so to speak..


AV123 x-ls and a X-cs (Satin Black), new due to the fact that matching the b-stock bookshelves to the center cosmeticly will cost almost as much as buying new. With shipping, this would come in around 400 give or take a few bucks.


A little hesitant to pull the trigger on the eD's since its difficult to find solid reviews, although craigsub had some good things to say about them. Athenas seem to be the bargain of the bunch with many solid things said about them. I dont know much about the BAs and how they would compare to any of the 3?


I know the AV123 combo is the king of the bunch here but thats over my budget at this time and they around shipping till mid october which kind of sucks.


I dont think I can go wrong either way but value to performance wise, how much better are the x-ls compared to any of the others?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mosuavea* /forum/post/11687012
> 
> 
> Looking to upgrade my Onkyo 790 incrementally and plan to start with the speakers.
> 
> 
> Currently live in an aprtment, first floor in a small complex, no shared walls in the living room. Seated distance is roughly 12', room size is 16x16x8 ish without getting a tape measure out. 50" DLP if that matters at all and primary usage is 80% TV/Movies, 15% 360 and 5% music.
> 
> 
> Want to buy something that will be able to move to the rears when moving into a house (year or so) and want to stick with bookshelves over towers for the time being.
> 
> 
> After wading through various threads, I narrowed it down to a few speakers, budget around 300 for the L/C/R in no particular order...
> 
> 
> Athena B1.2s + C1.2 (230 ish)
> 
> Elemental Designs (3)MTM-5T5 (300)
> 
> Boston Acoustics CR67B + CRC7 or CS1 center (about 300 with a coupon locally at CC)
> 
> 
> and an outlyer so to speak..
> 
> 
> AV123 x-ls and a X-cs (Satin Black), new due to the fact that matching the b-stock bookshelves to the center cosmeticly will cost almost as much as buying new. With shipping, this would come in around 400 give or take a few bucks.
> 
> 
> A little hesitant to pull the trigger on the eD's since its difficult to find solid reviews, although craigsub had some good things to say about them. Athenas seem to be the bargain of the bunch with many solid things said about them. I dont know much about the BAs and how they would compare to any of the 3?
> 
> 
> I know the AV123 combo is the king of the bunch here but thats over my budget at this time and they around shipping till mid october which kind of sucks.
> 
> 
> I dont think I can go wrong either way but value to performance wise, how much better are the x-ls compared to any of the others?



If you want warm and musical wait for the x-ls. If you like bright and dynamic for HT and music, the Athenas are the ticket. Either is a fine choice. Think of it as a nice glass of chardonnay with a buttery aftertaste vs. a shot of JW Red (maybe black, I might be selling the Athenas short).


----------



## mosuavea




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/11692875
> 
> 
> If you want warm and musical wait for the x-ls. If you like bright and dynamic for HT and music, the Athenas are the ticket. Either is a fine choice. Think of it as a nice glass of chardonnay with a buttery aftertaste vs. a shot of JW Red (maybe black, I might be selling the Athenas short).



Awesome comparison, as I just sat down at the computer after dinner with a glass of chard....Perhaps its an omen.


Any thoughts on the BAs?


----------



## u4ea

Ok, I think I have read about 2000 posts today. My eyes hurt & my head is spinning -but- I think I have narrowed my search for speakers down.... Going for bookshelfs to make the wife happy (she didnt want floors)


In a tiled floor room, open floor plan

15'w x17'l x12'h (approx)

80% movies/tv 20% music

Onkyo 605 receiver

65" Mitsu Diamond wd65833


Im looking at these speaker setups (Ill get surrounds later):


1. (1 pair) SBS-01 (L/R) + (1) SCS-01 (C)

2. (1 set) SCS-01 (L/R/C)

3. (1 pair) AV123 X-LS (L/R) + (1) AV123 X-CS (C)

4. Athena set (not sure of model)


Subs Im considering (I will have to wait a month or two before I purchase):


1. SVS PB10-NSD

2. HSU VTF-2 MK 3

3. SVS PB12-NSD (most likely out of my price range unless i can find a deal







)


Thoughts or suggestions? What in your opinion would be the best setup?










Cheers-


u4ea


----------



## Jakeman02

All of those are quality products. As far as speakers I have the Athena setup and very happy with it. If you're sub budget is strained after the speakers I'd go with those. The X-LS/CS are by far the best looking of the group imo if that matters. They get great reviews and feedback as does the SVS choices. If you go SVS I'd go with the SCS-01 for the L/C and R.


I'd go with the 12" VTF2 MK 3 or PB-12 over the PB-10 considering your preference is mostly HT, It'll get you a little lower in the frequency range. I personally would go with the MK3 but that's my preference, the PB-12 is a excellent sub. If you're not in a hurry keep an eye out for B Stock at the HSU and SVS websites, that should save you a little cash also.


----------



## u4ea

Thx for the input, which athenas do you have?


----------



## Jakeman02

I"ve got 2 systems with them, one with Athena B1.2/C1.2 up front and point 5s for rear. The other F1.2/C1.2 up front and R1.2 rear.


If you're going with Athena I'd go with the B1.2 bookshelfs all the way around with the C1.2 center. Audioadvisor has them on closeout now at a very nice price.


----------



## Fighting Fish

If anyone has upgraded their Onkyo SR800 speakers and would be willing to sell their stock L/R speakers, please let me know!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mosuavea* /forum/post/11693077
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on the BAs?



I heard a pair of floorstanders over at a friends, but really didn't form an opinion...I'm not familiar with the line at all.


----------



## blynch1

I've be reading this thread for awhile which led me to put together my current setup a couple months ago.

2 polk R50s, Bic sub, Pio receiver, and 4 Klipsch satelites from the promedia computer set.


I'm looking to add a center channel and I'm deciding between the csr,csi3, and cs1. Originally was going to get the csr, but the csi3 and cs1 are only about $50 more. Which one would be the best for my setup, matching the R50s and having the best sound quality?


----------



## u4ea

I just placed an order for a set of SCS-01 (L/C/R). Thanks to everyone who helped in my quest for speakers...







I will wait a month or two till I get a sub. Ill post pics etc when I get the speakers.


----------



## snookalo

I just wanted to get back on here and say that my new set-up is great. I'm noticing more things now with movies that I didn't before. Things being said that I hadn't heard before and such. When I cranked up 300 it was more than my little living room could handle. My wife will have to adjust a bit to it. blynch1, the csr seems to fit great with the R50's to me. I actually had to adjust it down a bit because of the tiny center I was used to. The R300's are pretty awesome as surrounds too. The experience of a movie is just a lot more engrossing when your sound system is up to par. Oh, I'd say I'm sitting about 13 feet from the fronts and the surrounds are at my sides. Still using my sony HTIB sub, but with the R50's and the sub it still rocked the room. Overall I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blynch1* /forum/post/11700188
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm looking to add a center channel and I'm deciding between the csr,csi3, and cs1. Originally was going to get the csr, but the csi3 and cs1 are only about $50 more. ...



I think the CW on this one is that the CSi3 is the best of the bunch (especially since it is widely available for $150, which is less than the lesser CS1). I would be tempted, if it were me ... it's so nice to have a good center, and I do not think the CSi3 would be considered a poor match to the R50s. You could try and listen to the difference at Fry's if you can, and if you're not convinced, save a little money and get the CSR: *snookalo* seems pretty happy (although I am guessing he has an all tower setup, which might make a difference too).


----------



## LugNutX

I've recently jumped into the HD DVD world with an A30 and have been pondering a receiver upgrade to get the full benefit of HD Audio. However the best budget receiver (Onkyo 605) seems to fall somewhere between $400-500.


With my low-end speaker setup, I'm concerned that I won't hear enough of a difference to justify spending half a grand on a new receiver when my current model works just fine (just limited).


Polk R300 fronts

Polk CS1 center

Onkyo HTiB surrounds

BIC H100 sub

Onkyo 520 receiver


Receiver upgrade time? Or would I hear no real difference on my setup? It's a lot of cash for me to drop if there won't be a readily audible improvement...


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LugNutX* /forum/post/11720580
> 
> 
> I've recently jumped into the HD DVD world with an A30 and have been pondering a receiver upgrade to get the full benefit of HD Audio. However the best budget receiver (Onkyo 605) seems to fall somewhere between $400-500.
> 
> 
> With my low-end speaker setup, I'm concerned that I won't hear enough of a difference to justify spending half a grand on a new receiver when my current model works just fine (just limited).
> 
> 
> Polk R300 fronts
> 
> Polk CS1 center
> 
> Onkyo HTiB surrounds
> 
> BIC H100 sub
> 
> Onkyo 520 receiver
> 
> 
> Receiver upgrade time? Or would I hear no real difference on my setup? It's a lot of cash for me to drop if there won't be a readily audible improvement...



The HTiB surrounds would strike me as the weakest point in your system by far, not your receiver. Also, before spending those $$$ on a 605 just to get HD audio, ask yourself how many HD audio sources you will have available to listen to.


----------



## TheOnion

I am looking to purchase a HTIB for my basement setup. I am debating between the HSU Ventriloquist VT-12 and the Polk Audio RM10. Both seem really nice. My gut says go with the HSU but I have always been a fan of Polk Audio speakers.


Thoughts?


----------



## Mike Freas

My VT-12 setup simply blows anything in the price range out of the water. You are planning on getting the package with the sub right?


----------



## TheOnion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Freas* /forum/post/11727990
> 
> 
> My VT-12 setup simply blows anything in the price range out of the water. You are planning on getting the package with the sub right?



Actually no I was not. I have an old JBL 10'' Subwoofer that I was planning to use.


----------



## thomapa1

Newbie to Home Theater - Changing basement from kids playroom to a 'comfortable' (not hardcore) home theater (kids are now 13 and 11). Wanted to go cheap without having to throw stuff away in a few years.

Room is 15' x 21' with 7.5' drop ceiling. Viewing distance will be @10-11'

*TV*

Sharp 52D82U

$2,033 (friends and family program)

*Receiver*

Onkyo TX-SR605

$379 shipped from Amazon

*Speakers*

Klipsch Quintet II

$300 shipped from vanns

Sub will be a custom made one for @$150


Comcast HD box with DVr


I know it may not be a superior setup - but it will be at a good price point and should fit my needs.

Stuff starts arriving next week.


----------



## pdadi

Selling my six month old Velodyne CHT from row 5.0 speaker system for a

very good price.


check AVS market place for more details.


----------



## Mikeoz

Well, got a new onkyo sr605 today and so far I'm a little disappointed. I'm coming from an HK avr235 and I think the SQ is definetly a step down..







What does everyone else think of the onkyo sr605? The HK had a very nice warm and full sound, but HK seems to have some quality control issues. Anyone else share the same opinion? Perhaps I was expecting more and maybe tweaking the settings some more can improve the overall sound. Does anyone have any recommended settings? Thanks.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11806837
> 
> 
> ... I'm coming from an HK avr235 and I think the SQ is definetly a step down..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... The HK had a very nice warm and full sound, but HK seems to have some quality control issues. ...



We just switched from Yamaha (stereo only) to h/k, with a modest AVR147. We are very happy with our unit and have had no quality control issues at all. We did a side by side comparison with the Yamaha in stereo only, using two identical front speakers on each unit, and played each unit at different levels from -33dB to -16dB to -10dB (much higher than normal for us, and really too loud). We immediately noticed a slightly smoother sound for the h/k and a much more pleasant listening experience at high volume levels. We wondered if this was because the Yamaha was distorting at those levels, making things sound just loud and noisy. Since then, all fully hooked up in 5.1 with Polk Audio and an Acoustech H100, we have found the h/k to be excellent for our needs.


I would not say that this means that harman/kardon is better than Yamaha (or Onkyo), but it was an interesting first experience and we certainly get more out of our old speakers now.


By the way: Onkyo have had issues with Audyssey EQ setting the crossover too high (120 or even 150). You might want to check this since it apparently affects sound quality quite noticeably. Harman EzSet/EQ set our crossover to 60Hz on modest little MiniMonitors (and an excellent CS245i center).


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11806837
> 
> 
> Well, got a new onkyo sr605 today and so far I'm a little disappointed. I'm coming from an HK avr235 and I think the SQ is definetly a step down..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does everyone else think of the onkyo sr605? The HK had a very nice warm and full sound, but HK seems to have some quality control issues. Anyone else share the same opinion? Perhaps I was expecting more and maybe tweaking the settings some more can improve the overall sound. Does anyone have any recommended settings? Thanks.



Haven't heard those specific models but it's pretty common opinion that it's hard to beat or even compare with HK as far as SQ at the price point. Not suprising after moving away from a HK to another brand it would be a disappointment as far as SQ goes. I'm not bashing the 605 in any way, it's a great receiver and when compared to similar priced Yamaha, Pioneer, etc from the models I've heard I prefer Onkyo but HK is a step above in SQ. They don't get recommended as much in the budget receiver catagory because they are usually higher in price than other comparable receivers although you can get some pretty sweet deals from HK Direct on ebay.


They do seem to have more quirks than other brands but the chances of that happening are slim and if it does, knowing they have EXCELLENT Customer Service (again oustanding in comparison to others) that will make any problems right if they arise is a plus.


----------



## Mikeoz

Jakeman, I wanted to try and go with a different brand because it seems like hk has some issues in general, but the SQ difference is noticeable imo, and I think I'll be sending the Onkyo sr605 back..







I'll stick with my avr235 for the time being and try to go with an avr 247 or something after their newer receivers get the bugs worked out.


Thanks for the input Kex. I was looking at the yamaha v2600 and perhaps I just need to goto a circuit city (or more likely a tweeter or Meyer Emco) to hear a bunch of different receivers and listen to each brand's specific tone and sound. Do you know how Denon's sound compared to HK's? With an almost side by side comparison (same speakers, source, etc), the HK kind of sounds more like a tube amp than a transistor receiver, compared to the onkyo. The difference isn't dramatic (depending on your ears), and most people wouldn't notice it (that haven't listened to different receivers). I was hoping I would like the sound of the onkyo w/o hearing it, but unfortunately it's not my taste.


On that note, does anyone want an Onkyo sr605 in the DC metropolitan area?







I just got it in the mail today brand new from amazon, and I'll sell it for my cost minus the shipping charges back and the charges i'll pay for it being sent to me. That makes it $335 for anyone local. Everything seemingly works perfectly, no problems. Sorry to go off-topic, but it'll save me the hassle of mailing it back.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11806837
> 
> 
> Well, got a new onkyo sr605 today and so far I'm a little disappointed. I'm coming from an HK avr235 and I think the SQ is definetly a step down..



i've owned both onkyo and H/K AVR's, and i can definitely hear a difference. i prefer the H/K sound too, but i've heard reports of some being a little buggy, though my refurb has worked perfectly for almost two years. YMMV.


----------



## Ron Temple

Mike,


For SQ in my experience, not opinion...HK>Denon,Onk, Sony(non ES), pretty much from top to bottom with the bottom of HK line exceeding the midfi, Denon 28-38xx, Onk 6 & 7xx and Sony everything. All the non Elite Pios have guts and features, but are a bit bright and hissy compared to HK. Marantz and NAD(pricey) are a step up. I too was going to dump HK due to my refurb issues, but the 245 they sent me has been problem free and sounds great, though it only acts as a pre/pro for me. My little comparison is based on musical playback, where it's most noticeable. For HT, Denon, Pio and Onk are excellent as well. It's just once you get used to HKs sound in music, you just don't want to settle for less.


----------



## Mikeoz

Thanks Ron, I appreciate the ranking.. I really wanted to get a damn HDMI enabled receiver but perhaps I'll just hang on for a little bit, as the avr 247's seem to be a little buggy. I was considering denon, but wasn't sure how it compared to hk.


Anyone from the DC metro area want an Onkyo SR605? I don't wanna have to ship the damn thing back to amazon, and will gladly pass on my shipping losses!







Someone please buy it!


----------



## kidsdoc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikeoz* /forum/post/11814984
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron, I appreciate the ranking.. I really wanted to get a damn HDMI enabled receiver but perhaps I'll just hang on for a little bit, as the avr 247's seem to be a little buggy. I was considering denon, but wasn't sure how it compared to hk.
> 
> 
> Anyone from the DC metro area want an Onkyo SR605? I don't wanna have to ship the damn thing back to amazon, and will gladly pass on my shipping losses!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone please buy it!



i may be interested, shoot me a pm w/ details, thanks.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Hello everyone.


what do you think of the Polk PSW404/505 they are the higher csi line in the Polk Sub lineup and are on closeout now:
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...1596700&sr=1-1 


how would this compare to the BIC H-100.

I am building a polk 5.1 setup

R50 mains (purchased)

CS1 center

RM101 Surround (Satellites)


Thanks for the input.


----------



## onebxr

I would like to add the Radiient Calypso 5.0 speaker system to the HTIB alternatives list. I replaced some velodyne cht front row speakers with these and I am very happy that I did. I think that for 199.00 shipped you cant go wrong with the Calypso speakers. I have driven these speakers pretty hard the last 3 weeks for break in and also to see if I can find a weakness in the sound spectrum. The only gripe I have is the center channel is a bit weak compared to the 2 front tower speakers, but to combat this I turned up the volume on the center to match the timbre of the 2 towers, and problem solved.

My system setup includes:

Onkyo 604

Radiient Calypso 5.0

Bic H-100

Sony 5 DVD changer

HTPC

Mototrola DVR


I have relegated my CHT's to the bedroom with my sony strk 7000 reciever. I must say now the bedroom system sounds wonderful.


-Rich


----------



## afrogt

How much better/different do the Radiients sound than the Velodynes?


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11823065
> 
> 
> How much better/different do the Radiients sound than the Velodynes?



This is kind of a loaded question because everyone hears differently. To me the radiients had a more full and powerful sound. As they should due to the fact there are 3 more drivers per front speaker than the CHT's. There is also, to me, more depth to movies, I am hearing sounds in movies that were not heard from the velodynes. Do not get me wrong, I am comparing bookshelve speakers to tower speakers here so the velodynes are getting a raw deal. I still stand beside the CHT system as a great bang for the buck speaker system, but I must say that for the price you would be hard pressed to find tower speakers with the performance that the Calypso's give you. And as for the surrounds on the calypso speaker system they did not skimp on these speakers.

As for sound the calypsos are warm, not bright, or hollow at all.

I hope this kind of answers your question.

-Rich


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GadgetBoy2007* /forum/post/11821386
> 
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> 
> what do you think of the Polk PSW404/505 they are the higher csi line in the Polk Sub lineup and are on closeout now:
> http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...1596700&sr=1-1
> 
> 
> how would this compare to the BIC H-100.
> 
> I am building a polk 5.1 setup
> 
> R50 mains (purchased)
> 
> CS1 center
> 
> RM101 Surround (Satellites)
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input.



link doesn't work so I can't see the pricing. Anyway, the Bic over the 404. The 505 is a decent sub with similar specs...toss up.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Ron...thanks for the reply..the polk psw404 is on closeout for $209.00 on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...1622491&sr=1-1


----------



## Ron Temple

To be clear...if the 505 isn't priced equally with the Bic, go with the Bic. The 505s got more output above 30hz, but not worth more in SQ. Now if your budget is $350, go with an eD sub, the A2-300 won't beat the SVS PB10 in SQ, but it's close and aces it in output for quite a bit less.


----------



## mikeboice

My living room is 14 by 14, I watch mostly tv and movies. I have ordered the Onkyo SR575 and the Sony DVPNS77HB dvd player. My thoughts on speakers are: Polk R300 for the mains CSR for the middle and R150's for the rear, BIC H100 for the sub. Second option would be the HSU Performance 1 or 2. Third option could be Elemental Designs 5TC bookshelves front and back with 5T5 for the middle with the A2 300 sub. I would need stands for the front and the rear speakers, I'm also limited with the size of the middle speaker because of my Panasonic 600 series tv.[one mount in the shape of a diamond which extends out from the middle] The cost for these speakers, stands and shipping would run from $550.00 to $800.00. I'm ok with this price range and a little higher, any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

Thanks Ron....sounds like the BIC H100 is a winner, also I scanned almost every thread relating to subwoofers and hardly anything is mentioned of the Polk subs while I have not read one negative comment on the BIC H-100.


----------



## srjune1101

Hi Guys, Will this work ?


TV - Westy 47'' with 1 HDMI input


Onkyo 605 Receiver

Front - Boston Acoustics CR57 Bookshelves ( 90$ for a pair in Circuit City ).

Center - Boston Acoustics CRC7 (around 150 $ amazon) - i mainly chose this as this will match the bookshelves.

Rear - Polk Audio RM101 Satellite Speakers (75 $ each)

Sub - Velodyne VX-10


I liked the Boston bookshelves better than polk, kef, bose speakers in Circuit City. Also the Boston Center sounded ok (i havent heard the CS1,CSR's and i might not choose it for its size).


I live in an apartment and dont have that much space. But i chose the receiver and bookshelves for future. I dont want bulky speakers for rear. My question here is


1. Will this combination work ?

2. Is there any alternative for rear speakers(smaller in size)


Pls let me know.


Raj


----------



## shapsplace

I think the follow is what I am going to purchase....Please share your thoughts....


Receiver---Onkyo TX-SR505...($239 ShopOnkyo.com)

Front Speakers- Bookshelf's---Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers - Black -($99 Pair...AA)

Center- Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker ($99...AA)

Sub---Bic H-100 ($249 shop.com)

Surrounds--- not sure at this time... Might add later..

Back Speakers- not sure at this time... Might add later...


Please let me know what you think... Thanks in advance...


----------



## afrogt

shapsplace,


If you're ready to order, make sure you sign up for the Club Onkyo (its free) on the shoponkyo.com site. The price goes down to $219 for the same receiver. Plus you get an additional 10% off for Columbus Day. You must purchase by 10/09 for the Columbus discount. Plus as a first time clubonkyo customer, you get an extra $10 on your first purchase. Your price for the TX-SR505 will go down to about $189 saving you $50. I'm guessing you're getting the receiver in black?


As far as the BIC Subwoofer, very good choice. But you can also save money there by purchasing from the Sound distributors store on eBay. They have a Make An Offer deal and most people submit between 190-$200 and it gets accepted. You should be able to get your sub for no more than $239 shipped.


If you don't want to do the ebay thing, your shop.com has 10% off when you sign up. Just enter the coupon code. This should save you $25.


I have Athena bookshelf speakers with my Onkyo 573 system and they work well together. You'll enjoy it.


Good luck.


----------



## shapsplace

Thanks for the $$$ savings tips... I will take your advice...

Thanks again....


----------



## rygamer

I bough a onkyo sr605 now I just need some speakers. my family room is 21x13 but opens up into the kitchen. One patio door is present, and another door way that leads to the garage and bathroom. We will be viewing the tv from the kitchen as well (tv is above the fireplace mantel ). The main viewing sofa will be ~12-15 ft from tv. Tv is also pretty high up, bout 55-60".


I want to start with the basics and build my way up when funds are available. thanks all


----------



## afrogt

Do you plan to mount the speakers on the wall next to the TV? Or are you looking at floorstanders to put on each side of the fireplace?


What's your initial budget and do you want just two speakers now and plan to add on later?


----------



## rygamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11857332
> 
> 
> Do you plan to mount the speakers on the wall next to the TV? Or are you looking at floorstanders to put on each side of the fireplace?
> 
> 
> What's your initial budget and do you want just two speakers now and plan to add on later?



I'm looking to mount the speakers on both sides of the fireplace. Not sure about the stands because i have a 3 yr old and 1yr old touching everything. My initial budget was around $2000. I've spent so far $~1500 on the tv and $400 on the receiver. I am definitely going over my budget. So yes, I just want two speakers now that I can live with for awhile and add later on. I want to keep it around ~$200 for the speakers.


----------



## afrogt

I wonder if something like this would work for you. Not sure if the towers can be mounted or anchored to the wall, but you could call them to find out. Great price though.

http://www.radiient.com/Calypso-5-Ch...c=2&category=6


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11860280
> 
> 
> I wonder if something like this would work for you. Not sure if the towers can be mounted or anchored to the wall, but you could call them to find out. Great price though.
> 
> http://www.radiient.com/Calypso-5-Ch...c=2&category=6



I dont think that would be a good idea the towers are about 4 feet tall. And there is no mounting harware on the back of the towers so you would have to modify the speakers.

-Rich


----------



## rygamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onebxr* /forum/post/11863358
> 
> 
> I dont think that would be a good idea the towers are about 4 feet tall. And there is no mounting harware on the back of the towers so you would have to modify the speakers.
> 
> -Rich



Yes i definitely don't want to modify the speakers. any other ideas on speakers? I don't want to sound like a slacker for not going out and listening to the speakers myself, but I really trust the opinions on this forum. Any good mountable speakers in my price range?


----------



## onebxr

go to the first post of this thread and there are some wonderful suggestions. If you can pick up some used velodyne cht front row speakers, I can vouch that they are pretty good speakers. And they can handle what you are wanting to do. You might want to call velodyne and if you dont mind white they may have some left with the 5 speaker package.

-Rich


----------



## shapsplace

Does anyone have the Athena WS-60? I was thinking about getting two Athena WS-60 and using them as my fronts instead of the

Athena - Audition B1.2 Speakers that I was going to purchase. You can see my plan for set-up above. The Athena WS-60 would fit perfectly standing (or mounted) on both sides of my Plasma... any thoughts on the WS-60's would be appreciated.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/11846990
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605 Receiver
> 
> Front - Boston Acoustics CR57 Bookshelves ( 90$ for a pair in Circuit City ).
> 
> Center - Boston Acoustics CRC7 (around 150 $ amazon) - i mainly chose this as this will match the bookshelves.
> 
> Rear - Polk Audio RM101 Satellite Speakers (75 $ each)
> 
> Sub - Velodyne VX-10
> 
> 
> 1. Will this combination work ?
> 
> 2. Is there any alternative for rear speakers(smaller in size)



Raj,


There's no reason the combo you chose will not work, BUT check out Boston Acoustics Micro120x or -110x for your surrounds. While I think Polk RM's are great little sats, they may look and sound a bit out of place with your front Boston CRs. The Micro120x is comparable in size to RM101, and 110x is actually smaller.


Think if you can at all fit / tolerate another pair of CR57 in the back; this will give you the best overall SQ especially for music.


I actually demoed CR57 at home against comparable Polks. Let me know if you have questions.

- Val


----------



## srjune1101

Thanks Val, CR57 might be a little bulky as my surrounds. But u know what, i thought that option before as it sounded awesome. But i will go with Boston Acoustics Micro120x. ABT have them in stock. I will go hear them tonight and will buy it.


Is Boston Acoustics Micro Center Speaker better than CRC7 ? I compared the specs and it seems so. Please let me know which one is better.


Raj


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rygamer* /forum/post/11864593
> 
> 
> ... any other ideas on speakers? I don't want to sound like a slacker for not going out and listening to the speakers myself, but I really trust the opinions on this forum. Any good mountable speakers in my price range?



When you're not sure, and can't go out and listen, I think speakers like Polk Audio are one of the safest bets available. They may not be everyone's "best ever" choice of speaker, but they are excellent for most tastes and you can get really convincing results even from the entry level models. There are such great deals on small bookshelf models like the R150 ($50 a pair, when on sale) that you should be able to afford four of them! Even better possibly, and still keeping it under $200, the RTi4 should be excellent for just two front speakers from amazon.com, with built in mounting brackets on the rear (but the deals on the RTi4 probably won't last: they are only available at this price because the new RTi A replacement range is being launched).

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/r150/ 
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti4/


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/11866006
> 
> 
> Thanks Val, CR57 might be a little bulky as my surrounds. But u know what, i thought that option before as it sounded awesome. But i will go with Boston Acoustics Micro120x. ABT have them in stock. I will go hear them tonight and will buy it.
> 
> 
> Is Boston Acoustics Micro Center Speaker better than CRC7 ? I compared the specs and it seems so. Please let me know which one is better.



I have not had a chance to compare these different centers, but CRC7 should match your CR57 better by design. I would not compare them on the specs alone. Having checked the specs though, it looks like Micro120x uses VR-series aluminum tweeter, while the Micro110x has a Kortec soft tweeter similar to the CR-series speakers. See if the store carries both so that you can hear any differences.


Also, you could check the Boston Acoustics thread for more info.


----------



## srjune1101

I will go thru the Boston Acoustics thread and will defenitely compare the 110x with 120x. Thanks Val.


----------



## shapsplace

Does anyone have the Athena WS-60?

The setup in which I am thinking about purchasing is as follows:


Receiver---Onkyo TX-SR505...

Front Speakers- Bookshelf's---Athena - Audition B1.2 Speaker

Center- Athena - Audition AS-C1.2 Center Channel Speaker

Sub---Bic H-100

Surrounds--- not sure at this time... Might add later.

Back Speakers- not sure at this time... Might add later...


I was thinking about getting (two) Athena WS-60 and using them as my fronts instead of the B1.2 speakers. The Athena WS-60 would fit perfectly standing (or mounted) on both sides of my Plasma... any thoughts on the WS-60's would be appreciated.


Please let me know what you think... Thanks in advance...


----------



## rygamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11866042
> 
> 
> When you're not sure, and can't go out and listen, I think speakers like Polk Audio are one of the safest bets available. They may not be everyone's "best ever" choice of speaker, but they are excellent for most tastes and you can get really convincing results even from the entry level models. There are such great deals on small bookshelf models like the R150 ($50 a pair, when on sale) that you should be able to afford four of them! Even better possibly, and still keeping it under $200, the RTi4 should be excellent for just two front speakers from amazon.com, with built in mounting brackets on the rear (but the deals on the RTi4 probably won't last: they are only available at this price because the new RTi A replacement range is being launched).
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/r150/
> http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti4/



Will the rti4 be sufficient for a 21x13 room that opens up to the kitchen? and how important is a center channel? I don't think i have room between the tv and the mantel. Thanks


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rygamer* /forum/post/11875265
> 
> 
> Will the rti4 be sufficient for a 21x13 room that opens up to the kitchen? and how important is a center channel? I don't think i have room between the tv and the mantel. Thanks



I am sure someone has already told you, but $200 will not fill your space with sound, not even RTi4







. That is if you are expecting concert or movie theater volumes and bass rumble. The RTi4 will still however sound much better than the TV speakers and your ONKYO will drive them fine (speaking from experience) if you go easy on the volume dial (not much past the 12 o'clock position).


Set them up LARGE on the receiver and set all other speakers (surround, center, sub) to NONE. Once the money permits, add a good sub woofer to help your 2 front speakers and let the receiver breath better.


Don't worry about center right now, especially if you cannot position it well. Play with the ONKYO's DSP modes to chose what sounds best for your area for music and produces decent dialog in movies.


If "around ~$200" still means $250, than you can pick up the larger RTi6. The last time I checked these were still available from authorized stores for about $230 - $250 and come in black or cherry; real wood veneer BTW! RTi6 can still be wall mounted the same as RTi4, but are heavier, so make sure you find studs or use heavy duty wall anchors in drywall.


- Val


----------



## rygamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/11876040
> 
> 
> I am sure someone has already told you, but $200 will not fill your space with sound, not even RTi4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That is if you are expecting concert or movie theater volumes and bass rumble. The RTi4 will still however sound much better than the TV speakers and your ONKYO will drive them fine (speaking from experience) if you go easy on the volume dial (not much past the 12 o'clock position).
> 
> 
> Set them up LARGE on the receiver and set all other speakers (surround, center, sub) to NONE. Once the money permits, add a good sub woofer to help your 2 front speakers and let the receiver breath better.
> 
> 
> Don't worry about center right now, especially if you cannot position it well. Play with the ONKYO's DSP modes to chose what sounds best for your area for music and produces decent dialog in movies.
> 
> 
> If "around ~$200" still means $250, than you can pick up the larger RTi6. The last time I checked these were still available from authorized stores for about $230 - $250 and come in black or cherry; real wood veneer BTW! RTi6 can still be wall mounted the same as RTi4, but are heavier, so make sure you find studs or use heavy duty wall anchors in drywall.
> 
> 
> - Val



Considering i still need some money for a decent sub , i opted for the rti4 speakers for the front. Now for MORE research on a sub. This is grueling.


----------



## vinipux77

Great choice. I didn't know a sub was already on your mind. Don't stress about it too much, and start enjoying your system once you get RTi4s hooked up (they do have some decent low end for their size, too) and add the sub once you made a choice or run into a very good deal.


----------



## buzzy_

FYI, $199 + $22 shipping

Polk Audio RM10-5PK-BK Compact Home Theater Speaker System - BLACK


----------



## afrogt

My local Fry's is offering the RM-10 for $239 and they show the 10" subwoofer in the photo, but I'm not sure if they really do include the sub.

http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...17991078&type=


----------



## conando

I'm a home theatre newb but after doing a little research im thinking of getting:

polk rti4 x4 ~$400 shipped

polk cs2 center channel ~$230 shipped

yamaha 661 receiver ~$400 shipped

and still not sure about the sub but looking for something in the 200-300 range


my room is 12x18x8.5.

any suggestions on sub or ways to improve the rest of my system for a similar cost?


Also i live in Canada but will probably look to purchase from the US since i can't seem to find any good Canadian sellers.


Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *conando* /forum/post/11897152
> 
> 
> ... any suggestions on sub or ways to improve the rest of my system for a similar cost? ...



I believe the CSi3 (or more expensive CSi5) is the correct match for the RTi4, not the CS2. The former will be about $150 or less online currently, the latter will cost about the same as the CS2.


As for subs, all the usual suspects have already been mentioned in this thread. You could try for the Acoustech H100 from e-Bay ($240 shipped, in the U.S. at least) or some of the others in the same range.


----------



## mbaxter

Rti4 should be matched wtih Csi3.

Rti6 should be matched wtih Csi5.


----------



## Rip Van Winkle

i'm familiar with Elemental Designs from the car audio side of the house...how good are their home audio speakers?


----------



## WhoMe14

I just wanted to let you guys know the AV123 has their X-LS book sheff speakers on sale for $165. Normally priced at around 220.


----------



## tschrad

I've been looking at this thread for weeks and gone to all the local stores listening to different speakers (Polk, KEF, Def Tech, etc.) and receivers (Onkyo, HK, Yamaha). For a while I thought I was going to go crazy with all the choices and that doesn't even count the internet direct choices that I can't listen to in person. I finally purchased a receiver, HK AVR 247. Now, I need to get speakers. Because of our setup in the basement and 2 small children, I'd like to begin with a 3.1 setup and floorstanding speakers seem to be the best fit. The AV123 bookshelf speakers are mentioned frequently in this forum but I don't think they will fit on the TV stand that I currently have and I don't want to wall mount them. So, I was looking at the x-sls, x-cs and x-sub, especially with the sale going on right now.


What I'd like to know is whether or not the x-sls speakers are thought of highly as the x-ls in this forum?


Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum. It really helps.


----------



## dbeng

tschrad,


I purchased the exact speaker set up you refer to from AV123 based on the reccommendations within this forum. I power them with an HK AVR340. I am delighted with the sound quality and have found myself listening to (and purchasing!) more music and watching more movies than ever. I really enjoy the sound of the x-series paired with HK. I ordered these speakers back in July before the current sale and am very happy with the decision. In light of the current sale you will receive an even better deal for your money. Go for it!


----------



## Fighting Fish

Polk Rti8's (scratch and dent) are on sale at Crutchfield $170 ea. free shipping. Only a few left.


These would make decent fronts for a budget system.


----------



## newY_lcd

I am planing to set up family room home theater system. I am new to this area. Does anyone know the differences for these ONKyo models, TX-SR605, TX-705, and TX-SR805? Which one is better considering both price and quality? Will HDMI ver1.3 support ver1.2? My TV has HDMI ver1.2.


Thanks a lot.


----------



## kappyben

hey all --


long time lurker here with a question. based on feedback in this forum, i'm considering the following 5.1 set up:


Onkyo 605

AV123 x-sls fronts

AV123 x-cs center

Bic H-100 sub

AV123 x-ls rears


the thing is, i know how great the x-ls's are considered to be, and i feel like it would be a waste to use them as subs. i'd also like to have subs that aren't so big.


would it go against the consistency of the system to purchase smaller subs by a different manufacturer? maybe ones that can even be attached on a bracket on the wall? any recommendations for something small, powerful, and consistent with the AV123s?


thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## afrogt

Subs? Do you mean surround speakers? You definitely can't mount a subwoofer on a wall.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11949045
> 
> 
> Subs? Do you mean surround speakers? You definitely can't mount a subwoofer on a wall.



LOL! I knew what *kappyben* meant to write, despite the mistake, but seeing your response just made that seem rediculously funny! I'm trying to picture that in my mind, and imagine the questions that would get posted here after the inevitable crash came about! I can see the thread heading now: "Please help: new sub fell off wall, what am I doing wrong?" LOL!


----------



## DSTRETCH

Hi Everyone,


Thanks for all the info on this thread. My situation is I only have 5.5 inches of height between shelves on my TV stand, so I had to look for both a receiver center channel speaker that fit.


Here is what I have come up with:


Panasonic XR55 or XR57

Athena F1.2 Fronts

Athena LS-C50 Center

Bic H -100 Sub

Rears add later


Your thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## afrogt

Panasonic receiver makes good sense. The little Athena center might get overpowered by the F1's. They also use a different tweeter. You might want to call Audio Advisor to see if they think its a good match, or just better to go w/o a dedicated center. You may just want to skip the center and go with a pair of LS-50's for rears.


Sub is a great choice.


----------



## kappyben




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/11949594
> 
> 
> LOL! I knew what *kappyben* meant to write, despite the mistake, but seeing your response just made that seem rediculously funny! I'm trying to picture that in my mind, and imagine the questions that would get posted here after the inevitable crash came about! I can see the thread heading now: "Please help: new sub fell off wall, what am I doing wrong?" LOL!



duh. man i am out of it. yes, i meant rear speakers!


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kappyben* /forum/post/11950660
> 
> 
> duh. man i am out of it. yes, i meant rear speakers!



No worries! It was obvious from reading your post that you meant the rear surrounds, and it helped give me laugh when I read *afrogt*'s response!


Sorry, but I cannot comment on the x-Is specifically, or I would have done so already, but I think it is still better to match surround speakers to your front stage, even if it's not necessarily essential. If you want to use satellite type speakers, you should still try and stay within the same brand if possible to match the musical tone. Just because the surroud speakers are of lesser importance doesn't mean you should buy [email protected], and it also looks better if they match the style of the fronts. YMMV.


If you're desperate though, I was impressed by Boston Acoustics "micro" speakers. I have no idea if they would "fit in" with the AV123 front and center you are considering.


----------



## djmakd

Hi,


I was wondering if the Polk Audio CS245 would be a good center channel match for the Polk R50's (front) and Polk R150's (rear)? I am able to get the CS245 plus two RT15 speakers plus two no name speakers from a friend for $100 and was wondering if it was worth it? How are the RT15 speakers, would they be comparable to the R150's? If so, then I could just use those instead of the R150's (I haven't bought any speakers as of yet so still debating). Thanks!


----------



## jluzbet

the cs1 will be a better match imo



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djmakd* /forum/post/11954933
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I was wondering if the Polk Audio CS245 would be a good center channel match for the Polk R50's (front) and Polk R150's (rear)? I am able to get the CS245 plus two RT15 speakers plus two no name speakers from a friend for $100 and was wondering if it was worth it? How are the RT15 speakers, would they be comparable to the R150's? If so, then I could just use those instead of the R150's (I haven't bought any speakers as of yet so still debating). Thanks!


----------



## afrogt

RT15 and RT150 are basically the same speaker. the RT150 is in a newer cabinet which looks better. The older R15 has a keyhole slot for wall mounting. The R150 does not.


2 bookshelves and a center is a bargain for $100. Will he let you try them out first?


Edit: Ooops I read this wrong. I was think R15 instead of RT15. The RT15 is better. Go for the deal, that's a bargain.


The "R" series is their entry level line. The RT was a step up and then the RTi replaced the RT. The RTi added real wood veneer to the cabinets over the RT.


----------



## gonelong

I have Athena B1.2 for my fronts, and Athena C1.2 for my center. I am very happy with them. I'd like to add 2 surround speakers, but I have space limitations. They will need to be ceiling mounted. I suspect they will need to be 1/2 the size (or smaller) than the B1.2s.


Ideally I could pick up a pair in the $100-$150 range or less. Not an audiophile in the least, not needed for music (ever), strictly home theater.


Suggestions?


GL


----------



## afrogt

How bout something like Omnipolar speakers? Great for surround duty. Just add a mounting bracket and away you go.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=309-400


----------



## BACONlover

hi guys! read all 63 pages in the past week. wonderful thread, really helpful for beginners like myself. thanks g-star, ron, and all the other posters.


here's my current setup. sony 1080p LCD above fireplace with 6.75" between bottom of TV and mantle (which is 9.5" deep). 2 HDMI wires running from TV to comcast HD DVR and DVD player. i want to get L/R and C speakers plus a receiver for ~$550.


for the AVR, HDMI pass thru or switching isn't important to me, although it would be a plus. what i don't want is to run more cables from the AVR to the TV just to use the AVR's OSD. i wouldn't mind adding an S-video cable though. so i was looking at:


HK 247 (~$300 if i bid right)

onkyo 605 ($380, a bit out of my budget)



for speakers i was thinking:


polk R150 + CSi3 ($195)

polk R300 + CSi3 ($275)

polk RTi4 + CSi3 ($325) + stands?? unless i can secure them to the wall while still sitting on top of the mantle with a 2" overhang


acoustic research ARXP62 + ARXP242C (~$250 with stands) _does anyone know the dimensions of this center speaker?? can't find the info anywhere_
_the polk centers will fit under my tv because of the slope at the back_. unfortunately the athenas 7" height wouldn't.







too bad `coz for $200 for the set they would have been great!!

_all prices shipped and with taxes_


i would love some input, specially regarding AVR options. will get a sub in a couple of months. i know the common sentiment is to spend more on speakers than the AVR, just don't wanna be stuck with an AVR that i would need to upgrade in a year. as opposed to getting budget fronts that i can move to the rear later on. this setup will be used for tv and movies 90% of the time. would be nice to be able to plug in an ipod though. your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/11958743
> 
> 
> hi guys! read all 63 pages in the past week. wonderful thread, really helpful for beginners like myself. thanks g-star, ron, and all the other posters.
> 
> ...
> 
> HK 247 (~$300 if i bid right)
> 
> onkyo 605 ($380, a bit out of my budget)
> 
> ...
> 
> polk R150 + CSi3 ($195)
> 
> polk R300 + CSi3 ($275)
> 
> polk RTi4 + CSi3 ($325) + stands?? unless i can secure them to the wall while still sitting on top of the mantle with a 2" overhang
> 
> ....



Hi Bacon! I read all those pages not so long ago myself: boy what a read, but it was the only way to make an informed choice. I probably wouldn't have bought anything if it hadn't been for this thread!


Anyway, my input: firstly, I would generally consider most AVRs such as Onkyo, Yamaha, harman/kardon to be more or less equivalent. However, I will say that I find our new h/k 147 seems to really add something extra to our Polk Audio speakers compared to our old Yamaha. It's subtle, but over the weeks since we set everything up, it is also convincing. I don't think I would risk trying another Yamaha now unless I could test it free of charge first (with the option to return it, no questions asked).


If you do decide to get the h/k 247, you will need patience to get it for $300 (possibly several weeks of e-Bay watching). It was available new on amazon.com for $350 just a couple of weeks ago (now over $400). If you're not interested in using HDMI processing on the receiver, you might get a better deal on the 245. http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...ump=psactive 


Secondly, if you can stretch to the RTi4 and CSi3, I think you won't regret it, but I would expect all three of those Polk Audio options to work really well. You can attach the RTi4 to the wall using the built in rear power port mounting bracket.


I think you're off to a very good start! Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Ron Temple

You might be able to snag a 245 for ~ $200. It's similar to the 247, HDMI 1.1, but I'd still go direct if possible. The RTi4s/CSi3 will get you the best SQ of the Polk options and they are mountable if stands are a problem. If you're handy, there's a guy who's modded the crossovers on some R300s and claims they are as good or better than Usher 520s, darlings of the $400+ class. Cost is $46.00 in parts, some solder and a rudimentary knowledge of electronics.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=36247


----------



## Kex

I didn't find much information on those Acoustic Research products either (they're part of the Audiovox group, which recently integrated the similarly mystical RCA range, purchased from Thomson S.A. of France):

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...3726&langId=-1 
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...3728&langId=-1 
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...ductId=&brand=


----------



## rygamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/11958743
> 
> 
> hi guys! read all 63 pages in the past week. wonderful thread, really helpful for beginners like myself. thanks g-star, ron, and all the other posters.
> 
> 
> here's my current setup. sony 1080p LCD above fireplace with 6.75" between bottom of TV and mantle (which is 9.5" deep). 2 HDMI wires running from TV to comcast HD DVR and DVD player. i want to get L/R and C speakers plus a receiver for ~$550.
> 
> 
> for the AVR, HDMI pass thru or switching isn't important to me, although it would be a plus. what i don't want is to run more cables from the AVR to the TV just to use the AVR's OSD. i wouldn't mind adding an S-video cable though. so i was looking at:
> 
> 
> HK 247 (~$300 if i bid right)
> 
> onkyo 605 ($380, a bit out of my budget)
> 
> 
> 
> for speakers i was thinking:
> 
> 
> polk R150 + CSi3 ($195)
> 
> polk R300 + CSi3 ($275)
> 
> polk RTi4 + CSi3 ($325) + stands?? unless i can secure them to the wall while still sitting on top of the mantle with a 2" overhang
> 
> 
> acoustic research ARXP62 + ARXP242C (~$250 with stands) _does anyone know the dimensions of this center speaker?? can't find the info anywhere_
> _the polk centers will fit under my tv because of the slope at the back_. unfortunately the athenas 7" height wouldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too bad `coz for $200 for the set they would have been great!!
> 
> _all prices shipped and with taxes_
> 
> 
> i would love some input, specially regarding AVR options. will get a sub in a couple of months. i know the common sentiment is to spend more on speakers than the AVR, just don't wanna be stuck with an AVR that i would need to upgrade in a year. as opposed to getting budget fronts that i can move to the rear later on. this setup will be used for tv and movies 90% of the time. would be nice to be able to plug in an ipod though. your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...



i just bought wall mounts for my rti4's. btech 77's. polk sells them and crutchfield does too. I got them for about ~75 pair. They have 7 degree downward tilt and i think 180 side to side.


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> I didn't find much information on those Acoustic Research products either


_kex_ thanks for looking for those AR measurements. like i said, i tried but can't seem to find that info on any webpage. was hoping someone who owns them would chime in.



> Quote:
> You might be able to snag a 245 for ~ $200....If you're handy, there's a guy who's modded the crossovers on some R300s



thanks _ron_. however, i don't think i'm comfortable messing around with the speakers. i will check out the hk 245. any other models i should consider? 147? onkyo 505? my main concerns are longevity and durability. i want to be able to enjoy it for at least 3 years and for it to last longer so i can sell it when i feel the itch to upgrade. ofcourse i want it to sound good but i also want value for my money and i'm not sure if i can discern audio subtleties as well as most guys here. i also want to avoid running component cables to the tv. 3-5 more cables running from the console beside the fireplace up to the tv wouldn't look good to me or the wifey.


but ofcourse, as in life, i know we can't _*always*_ get _*everything*_ we want _*all*_ the time...


thanks for the tip _rygamer._


----------



## funnie

Hi everyone!!


I am new to the forums but I have been poking around for a looong time. I just want to say that this is a very resourceful place. Everyone is very helpful and knowledgeable about home audio here.


I am new and want to start my own HT setup at home. I've had prior experience with a few HTIB (sony and panasonic). I am not an audiophile, maybe this might turn me into one...


I have been reading the forums and have a few setups in mind, and hopfully I can get some assistance.


setup 1

HK AVR 247

Polk R50 / Rti4

Polk Csi3

Bic HT-100


or


setup2

HK AVR247

Polk RM20

Bic HT-100


Will either of these setup work out ? or I have to match the speakers with a certain Polk sub? The reason why I am considering setup 2 is because the speakers are smaller and I do have a limited amount of space. I am willing to get setup 1 if its considerably better.


Any help is greatly appreciated !!!


----------



## kidsdoc

hello, i'm a newbie overall to the forums & this is my first post re: speakers for a home theatre setup. i'll be purchasing a 50-60" plasma shortly & i'm looking to start a home theatre system in my condo where i will be living for the next 18 months or so, after which my wife & i will hopefully be moving into a new house. i just picked up an onkyo sr-605 & i will be setting up the home theatre in a "living room" (~ 10'Wx14') that is part of an open living space including the dining area/kitchen. admittedly, i'm no audiophile & will be using this setup primarily for enjoying movies. to prove my point, my primary music source will be my ipod


i have been spending the better part of the last 3-4 days researching this site & various hi-fi websites, including sound&vision, hometheatrehifi, hometheatre, ultimateavmag, & others; i've read on those sites & on this one about wonderful brands/speakers such as PSB, aperion, Atlantic Tech, AV123, & radiient but at this point i want to go w/ one of the "mainstream" companies (& at this point my head is spinning!)


i had a couple of generic questions before looking for specific suggestions:


1) what are monitors? are they any different than L/R speakers?


2) i've read that a 3-way speaker is not necessarily better than a 2-way, true?


what i'd like to purchase at the moment is a pair of speakers that i can use alone for at least a couple of months before adding a subwoofer/center channel & eventually 2 surrounds; obviously i'd like a pair that will provide me w/ sufficient bass to carry me over to purchasing the subwoofer. i'm also aware that i should be trying to listen to the speakers which i'm definitely going to try to do before making my final decision.


my eventual plan is to add a nice ("timbre-matched" & expensive) pair as my front L/R speakers & rotate the rest of the speakers accordingly (to make my 5.1 setup a 7.1 setup)


some of the speakers i'm looking at currently (as this point i'd like to spend no more than $400-500 for the pair & i'm leaning towards either polks or jbls):


JBL

jbl L830

jbl stage

jbl stadium


Klipsch RB61

(i like the aesthetics on the Klipschs)


Infinity: (unfortunately there are no authorized Infinity dealers in MA)

infinity BETA 40

infinity P362

infinity P162


Polk:

Monitor 40

RTi6

RTi A3


would love to hear your thoughts/suggestions; also, do any of these companies have better "resale" value than others in case i want to start over in a couple of years; are "refurbished" units safe to purchase? (i.e. from jbl & infinity)


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funnie* /forum/post/11965286
> 
> 
> 
> setup 1
> 
> HK AVR 247
> 
> Polk R50 / Rti4
> 
> Polk Csi3
> 
> Bic HT-100
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> setup2
> 
> HK AVR247
> 
> Polk RM20
> 
> Bic HT-100
> 
> 
> Will either of these setup work out ? or I have to match the speakers with a certain Polk sub? The reason why I am considering setup 2 is because the speakers are smaller and I do have a limited amount of space. I am willing to get setup 1 if its considerably better.



funnie,


Does "Polk R50 / Rti4" for setup1 mean R50 fronts and RTi4 surrounds? If yes, than scratch that idea and go RTi4 all the way. They are arguably better than R50 paired with a nice SUB, which you DO NOT need to brand match to your front speakers - buy the best you can afford.


My humble opinion after hearing/owning the speakers you mention is that 4 x RTi4 + CSi3 will sound nicer (especially for music) than the RM20 set. Not to knock the RM series down. You really should try to listen to RM and RTi if you can. They actually use similar tweeters, so the sound timbre is similar to the point that I know some people mixing RM and RTi in the same setup due to size/preference reasons. RM has an edge in size, and their sound is quite good for a such compact and stylish package, too.


Does this help?

- Val


----------



## srjune1101

I just bought the Polk RM6750 Speaker System.


1. Which is the cheap and best cables i can order online ?

2. Is there a particular type of cables for these speakers as these use spring clips?

3. Any suggestions for some low priced wall mounts which will mount these speakers?

4. Do i need a separate cable for Sub - woofer ?


Thanks in advance


----------



## keefbeef

Hi,


I've been lurking for about a week now and have managed to make it about halfway through this monstrous (yet wonderful) thread. I will continue to read through it but please forgive me if there is some redundancy in this, my first post. I'm a complete noob but an enthusiastic one!


I have a somewhat unique situation. I am looking to build a HT system starting simple but building up to a 5.1 surround sound system. I plan on starting with 2 fronts (2.0) and maybe a sub next, then a center. I'm still a bit undecided whether to go cheap (BIC H-100 or X-sub) or overboard (PB10-NSD/PB12-NSD or Hsu VTF-1/VTF-2.3) on the sub. I would probably have to stick with a 3.1 for a while since my floors don't allow running wire for surrounds. Not a huge deal for me at the moment.


My living room is an odd shape (living room connects to dining area/kitchen & separated by a 70" wall; there is a 23" gap from the top of it to the cieling) and the TV & sound system will be mounted on that wall. TV placement dictated by the location of the cable line at that wall. Distance from the TV wall to the couch wall is 12'. The living room portion is 12' x 17' (not including the front door entry area).
___|..|________

|.......CCC....|

|_F_...........|

...|C..........|

...|C..........|

...|______.....|

...|...| |.....|

...|...|_|.....|

...|...........|

...|.K.._...D..|

...|...| |.....|

...|___|_|_____|

F = Front door

K = Kitchen

D = Dining area

CCC = 3-seat couch

CC = 2-seat loveseat

... = placehiolder for ascii pic (try to ignore these, I had to put in something so that the relative positions would stay the same. I'll try to get an actual diagram drawn & attached.)


Probably 90% movies/TV, 10% music. TV will be a 42" flatscreen sitting on a stand ( 55"W x 18"D; Pier1 Media Console 2189532 ) or mounted on the wall above the same stand. Budget for 2 front speakers & a receiver is $500-$700 (TV taken care of from diff budget, sub & center will come later). I would want most of the budget to go to a good set of speakers ($200 or less rceiver) since I'll be keeping them for a while. Pretty straightforward so far, huh? Well...


My limitations are WAF (wife acceptance factor) and TDF (toddler danger factor; WAF directly related to this). I have a 10 month old who will start to walk any day now and will inevitably get into everything. The place is already pretty child-resistant (can anything ever be child-proof?). Therefore, I am looking for speaker options that can be mounted to the wall without much difficulty. Gotta protect the little one after all. The center could sit on the stand.


Of this thread's heavily recommended speakers, the av123 x-ls/x-cs sound like a good way to go but they are very physically deep. 12" deep + ~3" wall mount = 15" stiking out of the 106" wide wall that people will be walking by (Left speaker would need to be placed by the corner people walk around somewhat blindly). The SVS SBS-01 are 9.5" and SCS-01 are 8.5" so might that that be better. What about the Hsu HB-1's at 8" depth? Which speakers could I flush mount to the wall (no rear port)? Any other speakers that could work well here for wall mounting? How far will the TV stick out if/when I mount it on the wall? (I'm guessing 3" mount + 4" TV = 7") Could some of ya'll who have mounted flatscreens on the wall please tell me the ballpark distance?


Alternatively, how would floor-standing speakers or bookshelfs on speaker stands do with a toddler running around? Could she knock them over easily? (Momentum can be a very bad thing.) I ask because the footprints on many of the floorstanding speakers look pretty small and stands put the speaker weight pretty high up... How stable are these floorstanding speakers? Wife would prefer low profile wall mounted but she may be swayed as long as TDF=0.


Thank you all so much for the education and the help. Sorry for the giant post... Just trying my best to de-noobify.


----------



## vinipux77

keefbeef,


A couple of options for you.


I guess you are not looking for super-WAF mini sats, since starting as 2.0 - but these are the easiest to wall mount.

It's best to wall mount front-ported speakers, or in general ones designed for better wall mounting (not necessarily front ported - for example Polk RTi or RTiA 2008 are back ported with "Power Port" that itself doubles as a wall mount - but about 11" deep).


You are correct, some tower speakers could be top-heavy, too, as bookshelves on stands. One way to battle that are stands with wider bases that are hollow inside and can be filled with sand or better lead shot to make them super-stable. Then you use Blu-Tack (or similar) to attach bookshelves to stands.


An alternative would be to mount speakers higher on the wall (or even ceiling) on a pivot bracket angling them towards the listening area. This is less optimal, of course, but defeats both, toddlers and careless adults running into low mounted speakers.


----------



## gmoney1

Can anyone recommend a couple of forum sponsers regarding Home Theaters in a Box? I've heard Onkyo and Bose do very well. The new Onkyo HT-SP908 looks decent and so does the Bose Lifestyle 28 series III. The Onkyo retails for about $999. Surely, a couple of forum sponsers carry these systems or other good systems. Ideas or recommendations?


----------



## v0yce

Hey guys, let me just echo what so many others are saying, and tell you that this thread is great for the audio ignorant like myself.


I'd appreciate some advice. From reading and pricing, this is what I'm looking at...


Reciever

Sony STR-DG910 ($350)


Speakers

Fronts: Polk R50s ($160)

Center: Polk CSR ($80)

Surrounds: Polk R150s ($50)

Sub: ???


So my questions are...

1) Is that Center (Polk CSR) quality? I don't like the look of the RM6752 that's recommended and its the same price at frys.
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 

But I watch a lot of movies, so the Center is kind of important for dialog and such. Is the CS1 much of an improvement over the CSR?


2) I'm not sure what sub to get. This set up will be for movies and a whole lot of gaming, so "boom" is pretty important for me. But my media room is pretty small. Its just a small room above the garage with low angled ceilings. So I'm guessing one of the smaller/cheaper subs would be fine, but don't want to sell myself short if you guys think otherwise.


3) Will the sound "mesh" well between all of these speakers?


Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## gonelong




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/11957323
> 
> 
> How bout something like Omnipolar speakers? Great for surround duty. Just add a mounting bracket and away you go.
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=309-400



That looks like it will fit the bill ... Thanks!


GL


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> Could some of ya'll who have mounted flatscreens on the wall please tell me the ballpark distance?



keefbeef, welcome to the thread. keep reading, there's a wealth of information and ideas on these 60+ pages. i used a peerless STP-660 to mount my LCD above the fireplace. mount sticks out 3 inches. since i have it tilted down, bottom of screen is 5" from wall and top is 10" away.


----------



## keefbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/11988188
> 
> 
> keefbeef,
> 
> 
> A couple of options for you.
> 
> 
> I guess you are not looking for super-WAF mini sats, since starting as 2.0 - but these are the easiest to wall mount.
> 
> It's best to wall mount front-ported speakers, or in general ones designed for better wall mounting (not necessarily front ported - for example Polk
> 
> 
> You are correct, some tower speakers could be top-heavy, too, as bookshelves on stands. One way to battle that are stands with wider bases that are hollow inside and can be filled with sand or better lead shot to make them super-stable. Then you use Blu-Tack (or similar) to attach bookshelves to stands.
> 
> 
> An alternative would be to mount speakers higher on the wall (or even ceiling) on a pivot bracket angling them towards the listening area. This is less optimal, of course, but defeats both, toddlers and careless adults running into low mounted speakers.



You are correct. I don't wanna have to resort to mini/micro satellites. It just seems like you lose so much SQ and value when you try to go with speakers that small. I may end up having to go there but I'll exhaust all other options first.


Hmm... Maybe a stupid noobie idea but I'll ask anyhow:


I have run across quite a few old DCM speakers for only $100 on CL. DCM Timeframe T600's (41"H x 17" W x 8.75" D). Could something like these be mounted to the wall flush? Would it be insane to try to mount a 47 lb speaker to the wall? Are these any good to begin with?


----------



## keefbeef

Well, I finally got through the whole thread. It was a beast but I read every post and have come out of it much better educated. Don't worry all, I'll make sure I don't re-ask the same few questions that have been answered dozens of times already so far...


After some thought, it probably would be a dumb idea to try to mount 47# speakers to the wall... They Timeframes seem too wide for easy placement anyhow... That could have made an amusing noobie post: "HELP: My 47# floor-standing speakers fell off the wall. What did I do wrong?!?"


Well, after reading the latter half of this thread, I read about 2 more options that honestly don't excite me very much: The Athena WS60 (ATWS60; $100 each for silver/demo and the HTD Flat Panel Speaker ($150 each) . Neither one excites me really because they seem a bit shallow (physically) for my liking. Also, the drivers they use are smaller than the 5.25" and 6.5" drivers on the highly touted speakers (av123, SVS, etc...) Am I correct in thinking that the shallow cabinet combined with the smaller drivers (even tho there are more of them) will result in a much more tinny sound than the bookshelves?


On the spectrum from satellites to bookshelves, these sit closer to the satellites than I would like. I wish there were ~5-6" deep speakers like these that used 5.25 or 6.5" drivers and didn't sacrifice the SQ much... in my dreams?


In the meantime, I'll keep looking...


P.S. Would it adversely affect the properties of the speakers if I primed and re-painted the cabinets? (Taking care to preserve the drivers/ports/screwholes/etc...) Faux wood veneer is not exactly my style unless it's as nice looking as the expensive av123's and some of these used speakers could certainly use a facelift. I was thinking something more along the lines of this . The website pix don't do it justice. In bright red, I think it could really look cool, WAF notwithstanding...


----------



## keefbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/11990823
> 
> 
> keefbeef, welcome to the thread. keep reading, there's a wealth of information and ideas on these 60+ pages. i used a peerless STP-660 to mount my LCD above the fireplace. mount sticks out 3 inches. since i have it tilted down, bottom of screen is 5" from wall and top is 10" away.



Thanks for the reply! Is yours an articulating mount? Those mean more minimum space from the wall whereas the fixed angle mounts are more flush to the wall, right?


I'm going with an average distance of ~7-8" from the wall to the front edge of the screen then.


----------



## BACONlover

so after a couple of weeks of reading hundreds of pages (not posts)







on this forum and checking stuff out in stores, i'm taking the plunge. crutchfield had a good deal on RTi8s ($420 with shipping for outlet/scratch and dent and 550 for brand new ones)! but they're outta my budget though. so instead, i pulled the trigger on the setup below:


mains: RTi4

center: CSi3


the fact that i could return them free of charge within 30 days and the good price eliminated any hesitation on my part. apparently could've gotten 20 bucks off if i had a previous customers referral number. (so anyone buying from them, PM me and we both get $20







) and if i can justify spending another $250 then maybe i'll exchange them for RTi8s. or get a budget sub...now time to decide on the receiver.


keef, yeah that would be a pretty funny thread to start. hey i noticed you're in san diego, hopefully you're a ways off from these crazy fires. i have a tilting mount. because of my room layout, an articulating mount offered no advantage aside from making it easier to get to the wires behind the TV. but for the >$150 premium, i'd gladly deal with loosening the locks on the side and tilting the TV up to access the plugs. in your case the articulating mount would make sense if you place the tv on your long wall facing the front door, then you'd be able to angle it in such a way as to be able to watch tv from the dining room as well. if you wanna do this you should be able to easily run your cable from the dividing wall to the long wall thru your basement. since you plan to build up your system, take note of the dimensions of the matching center for the main speakers you are considering. make sure it will fit in your console, or if you're wall mounting the TV, that there is enough space below it. this was a limiting factor for me. i had


----------



## Ron Temple

BL, don't you have a Frys up there? Someone recently walked out with a pair of 8s for $250 in Indy...not sure of the details, just read the post. With the new A series, prices are getting negotiable.


----------



## keefbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12003601
> 
> 
> keef, yeah that would be a pretty funny thread to start. hey i noticed you're in san diego, hopefully you're a ways off from these crazy fires.



Well, my family and I are fortunate. We live in La Jolla and don't have to worry about the fires directly, only the bad air quality from them. Work & schools were canceled and my wife and daughter are in LA at the moment (I'm so glad she decided she needed to get stuff from her parent's place last week!). Between shifts volunteering at a local hospital, I have had considerable down time cooped up in my apt alone with no car. Thus, I've had time to read this thread in it's entirety. Helps fend off the cabin fever and I can listen to the news at the same time.


Going back to HTiB alternatives. (I hope I haven't derailed this thread too much already.)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12003601
> 
> 
> in your case the articulating mount would make sense if you place the tv on your long wall facing the front door, then you'd be able to angle it in such a way as to be able to watch tv from the dining room as well. if you wanna do this you should be able to easily run your cable from the dividing wall to the long wall thru your basement.



Thanks for thinking thing through so thoroughly! Unfortunately, I live in an apartment so no major mods. In SoCal (aka earthquake country) basements are very rare anyhow. Man, if I did have a basement, it'd be a full out low budget HT (projector and all). Alas, that will have to wait until I'm out of school and making + income. Anyhow, the TV will have to be on the short wall due to the cable outlet.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12003601
> 
> 
> since you plan to build up your system, take note of the dimensions of the matching center for the main speakers you are considering...



Good advice. I have not purchased any of it yet (Holiday season approaches, tho) so I will make sure to keep those things in mind as I get things together. That's part of the reason I want to have the speakers sorted out way before mounting the TV.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12003601
> 
> 
> have you checked out av123? they have some real nice finishes that might be a match for your console. you know, WAF and all...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> based on what i've seen so far, seems like $700 is a healthy budget for a 2.0 system. enjoy and good luck!



Alas, I wish I could just go with an av123 set. They look gorgeous. Unfortunately, their speakers are very deep (12.125" for x-ls; 15.5" for x-cs) and rear-ported so I probably couldn't mount them on our wall. The search continues. Fortunately, I'm not in a big rush.


----------



## BACONlover

250 out the door for a pair of RTi8s?!?! holy crap i would love to get that deal. i'll go check out the frys here on saturday. thanks for the tip ron.


hey i need opinions. i'll be using this setup, my 1st, for tv/movies/music (70/20/10). which would likely sound better:


1)rti8 fronts with csi3 and no sub


or


2)rti4 fronts with csi3 and budget sub (bic h-100, x-sub or STF-1)



either option i'd have to live with for atleast 6 months. if option 2, which sub (need to keep it


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12013357
> 
> 
> 250 out the door for a pair of RTi8s?!?! holy crap i would love to get that deal. i'll go check out the frys here on saturday. thanks for the tip ron.
> 
> 
> hey i need opinions. i'll be using this setup, my 1st, for tv/movies/music (70/20/10). which would likely sound better:
> 
> 
> 1)rti8 fronts with csi3 and no sub
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 2)rti4 fronts with csi3 and budget sub (bic h-100, x-sub or STF-1)
> 
> 
> 
> either option i'd have to live with for atleast 6 months. if option 2, which sub (need to keep it


----------



## funnie

Thank you for the input Val!! It helps since you have had experience with this setup. I will take your advice and go listen to the speaks myself first. I will get back to you guys to report what happens.


----------



## pnutzlaw

I have a brand new Panny 50PZ700U and am ready to get an audio system. I would like to spend no more than $1,000 on a 7.1 receiver (possibly the Onkyo TX-SR605), a non-HD DVD player with HDMI and 1080 upconversion, seven speakers, and a subwoofer. Any suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## srjune1101




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pnutzlaw* /forum/post/12020874
> 
> 
> I have a brand new Panny 50PZ700U and am ready to get an audio system. I would like to spend no more than $1,000 on a 7.1 receiver (possibly the Onkyo TX-SR605), a non-HD DVD player with HDMI and 1080 upconversion, seven speakers, and a subwoofer. Any suggestions? Thanks.



U have tons of suggestions for speakers in this forum. For the DVD player, I will suggest the Oppo DV-981HD or Oppo DV-980HD. Man i tell u its awesome with regards to Upcoversion and the Video quality.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v0yce* /forum/post/11988575
> 
> 
> Hey guys, let me just echo what so many others are saying, and tell you that this thread is great for the audio ignorant like myself.
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate some advice. From reading and pricing, this is what I'm looking at...
> 
> 
> Reciever
> 
> Sony STR-DG910 ($350)
> 
> 
> Speakers
> 
> Fronts: Polk R50s ($160)
> 
> Center: Polk CSR ($80)
> 
> Surrounds: Polk R150s ($50)
> 
> Sub: ???
> 
> 
> So my questions are...
> 
> 1) Is that Center (Polk CSR) quality? I don't like the look of the RM6752 that's recommended and its the same price at frys.
> http://shop1.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> But I watch a lot of movies, so the Center is kind of important for dialog and such. Is the CS1 much of an improvement over the CSR?
> 
> 
> 2) I'm not sure what sub to get. This set up will be for movies and a whole lot of gaming, so "boom" is pretty important for me. But my media room is pretty small. Its just a small room above the garage with low angled ceilings. So I'm guessing one of the smaller/cheaper subs would be fine, but don't want to sell myself short if you guys think otherwise.
> 
> 
> 3) Will the sound "mesh" well between all of these speakers?
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all the help.



I have that setup, and love how the CSR matches the R50s in the front (and yes, the R150s are great for rears/surrounds). I tried a couple other Polk centers (CS2 or 3, forget now), and they were a tad stronger than the CSR, but if you just increase the center channel a bit it sounds great. Again, the CSR and R50s up front will sound like one seamless speaker/sound stage, which is what you want. A great setup for the budget-minded (and much better than the HTiB systems I tested and compared them to).


I went with the Onkyo 505 receiver, because it had everything we needed (7.1, HDMI passthrough, lots of codecs, lip-synch, great bass management, etc.). For around $600, I got the R50s (front), CSR (center), R150s (rear), and Onkyo 505, and to me, this setup sounds quite a bit better than anything close to that price.


I have an (older) 8" Polk sub, which suits us fine. I already had it, but if I needed a new one I'd probably get the Polk 10" (not sure which one) -- you don't need the absolute BEST sub, since the R50s do so well with the low end (I think I have the cross-over set at 60 hz). That's one of the reasons I went with full-size fronts (rather than sats).


Though probably not the "best", the Polk R-series is a fantastic bang-for-buck, esp. if you can find parts of the system on sale (check Fry's, Crutchfield, etc.).


Good luck!


----------



## v0yce




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12027235
> 
> 
> I have that setup, and love how the CSR matches the R50s in the front (and yes, the R150s are great for rears/surrounds). I tried a couple other Polk centers (CS2 or 3, forget now), and they were a tad stronger than the CSR, but if you just increase the center channel a bit it sounds great. Again, the CSR and R50s up front will sound like one seamless speaker/sound stage, which is what you want. A great setup for the budget-minded (and much better than the HTiB systems I tested and compared them to).
> 
> 
> I went with the Onkyo 505 receiver, because it had everything we needed (7.1, HDMI passthrough, lots of codecs, lip-synch, great bass management, etc.). For around $600, I got the R50s (front), CSR (center), R150s (rear), and Onkyo 505, and to me, this setup sounds quite a bit better than anything close to that price.
> 
> 
> I have an (older) 8" Polk sub, which suits us fine. I already had it, but if I needed a new one I'd probably get the Polk 10" (not sure which one) -- you don't need the absolute BEST sub, since the R50s do so well with the low end (I think I have the cross-over set at 60 hz). That's one of the reasons I went with full-size fronts (rather than sats).
> 
> 
> Though probably not the "best", the Polk R-series is a fantastic bang-for-buck, esp. if you can find parts of the system on sale (check Fry's, Crutchfield, etc.).
> 
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks.


I actually went back and read through the whole thread after making that post, and got most of the answers I needed. And that seems like the best set up for the money I'm wanting to spend. And seems like a good jumping in point for someone like me who's been rocking a modest little Samsung HTIB.










I just wish those AV123 sets didn't look so darn sexy. Makes me want to spend more money that I should.


I'm going with the Sony reciever because it has 3 HDMI inputs that I was looking for. I haven't seen any complaints about it yet, so hopefully the sound quality is solid.


The only thing I'm still a little up in the air about is the sub. I think I've pretty much decided that I'll pick up the other stuff first and then just see how much I have left to allow for the best sub I can afford. But I'm still a little hesitant. Are the experienced guys here confident that for HT use the difference in sound quality matches the difference in price?


thanks again guys


----------



## Florida_Gator

What I found with subs is, the way you setup your stuff makes a bigger difference than the actual sub (assuming decent or better). For example, I've currently got my old 8" Polk sub dialed-in with the fronts (in terms of cross-over settings, gain on the sub, etc.) to the point where a high-to-low sound test tone is virtually seamless between the fronts and the sub. At the store, a much more expense sub sounded (to me) much worse than mine (dark, muddy, and overpowering), probably because of the way they had (or didn't have) it setup.


What I'm saying is, if you go with a decent sub (Polk, Bic, Velodyne, etc.), then set it up right with the rest of your system, you'll be very happy with the results.


----------



## juddmenkveld

I've read most of this thread and the info here is great. Thanks to everyone who contributed!


I'm upgrading a Sony STR-K740P 5.1 HTIB system that I've had for 5-6 years. This is 100% for home theater. I've made the following decisions so far. I've listed my reasons below.


Panasonic XR55 Receiver - My shelf can only fit a max 6" component. I don't need any HDMI capabilites because I have 3 inputs on my tv and prefer to tweak settings on each input seperately. Also picked up the XR55 for $150 which seemed like a good deal.


Bic H-100 Sub - Haven't bought this yet but it seems like the clear choice based on everything I've read for HT use at my budget. My biggest complaint about my current system is how bad the sub sounds.


Rear Speakers - I'm holding off on these for now in order to devote available funds to the sub and front row. I may hook up a couple of my existing sony satellites for the time being.


Now for my big question and the reason for which I post:


I am torn on what to get for the front row. Here's what I'm comparing currently:


AV123 x-sls floorstanders

AV123 x-cs center

Price $493.00 shipped


vs.


Athena B1.2 Bookshelfs + Stands

Athena C1.2 center

Price $286.75 shipped


I know the AV123 is considered a step up from the Athena's and the look a lot sweeter but I'm wondering if it's worth the $200 price difference. I also know that the x-series is warmer sounding than others listed. Honestly, I don't know if I prefer that or not (or what I could listen to to figure that out).


I'm leaning towards the AV123 option but I don't want to spend extra money needlessly. I know I would probably be happy with either but I don't feel like I have a solid decision criteria yet for the front row. Thanks in advance for any help or comments!


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juddmenkveld* /forum/post/12038403
> 
> 
> I've read most of this thread and the info here is great. Thanks to everyone who contributed!
> 
> 
> I'm upgrading a Sony STR-K740P 5.1 HTIB system that I've had for 5-6 years. This is 100% for home theater. I've made the following decisions so far. I've listed my reasons below.
> 
> 
> Panasonic XR55 Receiver - My shelf can only fit a max 6" component. I don't need any HDMI capabilites because I have 3 inputs on my tv and prefer to tweak settings on each input seperately. Also picked up the XR55 for $150 which seemed like a good deal.
> 
> 
> Bic H-100 Sub - Haven't bought this yet but it seems like the clear choice based on everything I've read for HT use at my budget. My biggest complaint about my current system is how bad the sub sounds.
> 
> 
> Rear Speakers - I'm holding off on these for now in order to devote available funds to the sub and front row. I may hook up a couple of my existing sony satellites for the time being.
> 
> 
> Now for my big question and the reason for which I post:
> 
> 
> I am torn on what to get for the front row. Here's what I'm comparing currently:
> 
> 
> AV123 x-sls floorstanders
> 
> AV123 x-cs center
> 
> Price $493.00 shipped
> 
> 
> vs.
> 
> 
> Athena B1.2 Bookshelfs + Stands
> 
> Athena C1.2 center
> 
> Price $286.75 shipped
> 
> 
> I know the AV123 is considered a step up from the Athena's and the look a lot sweeter but I'm wondering if it's worth the $200 price difference. I also know that the x-series is warmer sounding than others listed. Honestly, I don't know if I prefer that or not (or what I could listen to to figure that out).
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards the AV123 option but I don't want to spend extra money needlessly. I know I would probably be happy with either but I don't feel like I have a solid decision criteria yet for the front row. Thanks in advance for any help or comments!



The XR-55 is a excellent receiver and $150 is a great price. You got a deal.


As far as the H-100 for a sub, at it's price point It's an awesome sub, very nice looking to imo with the piano finish ends. You'll be more than thrilled with it, especially after your previous sub, they don't even compare.


Personally I haven't heard the AV123 X series speakers. They get rave reviews for their quality, performance and looks at the price point. I do have 2 systems with with Athenas and love em. Some people do consider them a bit bright. My opinion is revealing and very detailed in the high end which I prefer. Head to head with the receivers I've heard matched with, I'd opt for Athena, probably even at the same price point, I love the sound of them, the X series does beat them as far as looks though

BUT

The XR-55 is considered to be a bit bright or revealing also so imo the AV123 option should be a better match but again I haven't heard them paired together. I use Onkyo and Pioneer receivers in my systems with the Athenas.


One thing I would change on your list. Since you're open to Floor Speakers judging from your list of the AV123 speakers, if you do decide to go with Athenas I would opt for the F1.2 floor speakers up front over the B1.2s, you're still coming in way under the the price of the AV123 setup and when you consider the price of adding stands the price difference is minimal.


Also if you do go with Athena, get surrounds now also. If your budget is tight, get the sub later. The Athenas are on closeout and who knows how long they will last, plus at their current sale prices they are a steal. The subs price rarely if ever changes.


----------



## juddmenkveld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12039669
> 
> 
> The XR-55 is considered to be a bit bright or revealing also so imo the AV123 option should be a better match but again I haven't heard them paired together. I use Onkyo and Pioneer receivers in my systems with the Athenas.



How much of a problem is this if I'm using this for home theater only?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12039669
> 
> 
> One thing I would change on your list. Since you're open to Floor Speakers judging from your list of the AV123 speakers, if you do decide to go with Athenas I would opt for the F1.2 floor speakers up front over the B1.2s, you're still coming in way under the the price of the AV123 setup and when you consider the price of adding stands the price difference is minimal.
> 
> 
> Also if you do go with Athena, get surrounds now also. If your budget is tight, get the sub later. The Athenas are on closeout and who knows how long they will last, plus at their current sale prices they are a steal. The subs price rarely if ever changes.



Ok, I'm sold on the F1.2's if I go with Athenas. Would you use B1.2's for surrounds or is that overkill?


Thanks so much for the help!


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Also if you do go with Athena, get surrounds now also. If your budget is tight, get the sub later. The Athenas are on closeout and who knows how long they will last, plus at their current sale prices they are a steal. The subs price rarely if ever changes.



You don't need to match the brand of your surrounds to the front row so whether you get Athena surrounds now or later is not a big deal. IMO, you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of your system if you get a good sub now. Like I said, JMO.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juddmenkveld* /forum/post/12040058
> 
> 
> How much of a problem is this if I'm using this for home theater only?



That's hard to answer as it's purely subjective to the listner, personal taste and preferences. It's not a problem, more of a personal preference. For HT use only you wouldn't notice the difference as much.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juddmenkveld* /forum/post/12040058
> 
> 
> Ok, I'm sold on the F1.2's if I go with Athenas. Would you use B1.2's for surrounds or is that overkill?
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for the help!



I'd go with the B1.2s in a heartbeat, no it's not overkill especially at the price. Samsurd2 is correct in it doesn't matter as much in matching the surrounds with the fronts but it's still recommended and at the price you're not going to find a better solution imo. They may not be available later, I'd still hold off on the sub if it came down to a budget thing and get the B1.2s for rears, you'll be happier with the system as a whole in the end. Besides if you should decide to redo things later and want to use the B1.2s in another application you've got 2 quality bookshelf speakers to do it with.


----------



## juddmenkveld

I pulled the trigger on the Athenas. If there is the problem with the sound being too bright paired with the Panasonic XR55 I'll just look into swapping out the receiver. Just need to order the sub now.


For reference this is what I'll have for my home theater for under $900 delivered:


Panasonic XR-55 receiver

Athena F1.2 main speakers

Athena C1.2 center

Athena B1.2 rear speakers

Bic H-100 subwoofer


Thanks for the help getting me to a final decision!


----------



## gvenarchik

Finding this site pretty helpful - appreciate Jake and the rest of you folks.

Because speakers are the issue - I believe - I'm interested to see some opinion on what to buy with a $1500 - $2000 budget.

Have - Pioneer Elite Plasma 42"

Need - Everything else.


Kind of like reading 'bout the Onkyo mid-level machines...Gotta have XM, do movies with full surrond and listen to the occasional Steely Dan CD.


Thanx guys

George


----------



## gvenarchik

Finding this site pretty helpful - appreciate Jake and the rest of you folks.

Because speakers are the issue - I believe - I'm interested to see some opinion on what to buy with a $1500 - $2000 budget.

Have - Pioneer Elite Plasma 42"

Need - Everything else.


Kind of like reading 'bout the Onkyo mid-level machines...Gotta have XM, do movies with full surrond and listen to the occasional Steely Dan CD.


Thanx guys

George


----------



## gvenarchik

I like the option of 2 zones AND I'd appreciate any info on who to call to install this stuff.

The Big Box store? The local (overpriced?) boutiquey HT business? The believable guy at Radio Shack who does it on the side?


Thanx agaib

Geo


----------



## gvenarchik

I like the option of 2 zones AND I'd appreciate any info on who to call to install this stuff.

The Big Box store? The local (overpriced?) boutiquey HT business? The believable guy at Radio Shack who does it on the side?


Thanx again

Geo


----------



## gvenarchik

Finding this site pretty helpful - appreciate Jake and the rest of you folks.

Because speakers are the issue - I believe - I'm interested to see some opinion on what to buy with a $1500 - $2000 budget.

Have - Pioneer Elite Plasma 42"

Need - Everything else.


Kind of like reading 'bout the Onkyo mid-level machines...Gotta have XM, do movies with full surrond and listen to the occasional Steely Dan CD.


Thanx guys

George


----------



## Derko

Hi all, I have Onkyo HTIB that came with the HT-R330 receiver. I was looking to give everything an overhaul, but don't have the money to replace everything at once. What should be the first thing that I replace?


I was looking at Best Buy, and they have the JBL Monitors on sale for $100 a pair, and also the Athena Audition center speaker for $120. If I buy these speakers will I notice a notable difference in my sound? Will it be useless because of my receiver? Should I get the receiver first? If so, which receiver would work best with those speakers in the price range of $200-$250 and which sub should I buy.


Thanks for the help!!


----------



## afrogt

You don't want to pair the Athena center speaker with the JBL Monitors. If you're going to start replacing speakers, at least get the same line and same brand. For instance if you want the Athena center, then buy some Athena B1 bookshelf speakers to go with it. If you want the JBL Monitors, then also buy the JBL Voice center.


Its important that your front 3 speakers have the same sound.


Any of those speakers will work fine with your current receiver.


----------



## Derko

Which would you recommend more from the two brands? The JBLs or the Athena's?


----------



## Jakeman02

Derko: your receiver is fine, the HT-R330 is a nice receiver. Go for speakers unless you're needing features/connection options the 330 doesn't have. As far as between the JBL's and Athenas, that's preference. I've got Athenas on both my systems and love em. Since you can get the JBL's locally you might want to consider buying the Athenas and then a pair of JBLs and compare, then return the ones you don't want to keep. At worst you're out return shipping on the Athenas. Other than that the only specific information between them is most people consider Athenas to be more detailed or emphasized in the higher frequencies which is one of the things I love about them.


As far as a sub in the $200 range, the Bic H-100 or AV123 x-sub are your best choices with the H-100 being a bit more preferred for HT use with it's larger driver, it'll get you a little lower in the frequency range with more headroom. The x-sub is an excellent choice also, it has a smaller driver and is generally preferred for music.


----------



## afrogt

I own Athenas too and love the sound. Haven't heard the new JBLs so I can't really say which is better. You probably can't go wrong with either.


I do know you can get the JBL center for $92 shipped if you buy online. I think Best Buy charges $169.


----------



## Derko

Well I'm going to give the JBL's a shot then. So my receiver should be good enough for the time being then? As for the sub, do I have to worry about the connection type that will go with my receiver or is it something universal?


I will go pick up the speakers in a bit, they come out to $340 for the Sorrounds and Center. Sub I will get later.


----------



## Jakeman02

The HT-R330 has a subwoofer pre-out, you're fine and to answer your question again yes, your receiver is fine for upgrading the speakers and sub. If you're going to budget $200-$250 range which you posted then don't do it. It would be more of a sideways move performance wise, again unless you need features/connections the 330 doesn't have.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> I will go pick up the speakers in a bit, they come out to $340 for the Sorrounds and Center. Sub I will get later.



Is that for 5 speakers?


----------



## Derko

That is correct, 5 speakers...


Wow, I love em, I hear things that I never heard before in movies... I even feel like the pq of the TV is better just because everything sounds better! Only complaint.... wow they are huge... I need to buy new speaker stands, the ones that I have just don't cut it with these...


Hey, would I change any of the options in my receiver? Would I choose large speaker size in the options? Or stay with small?


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Derko* /forum/post/12062410
> 
> 
> ... Hey, would I change any of the options in my receiver? Would I choose large speaker size in the options? Or stay with small?



That was quick! You don't hang around when you decide! You wrote about getting those speaker this morning and you already have them this afternoon. You need to leave your speakers set to "large" until you get a subwoofer. Then you can set them to "small", and adjust the crossover frequency to 80Hz so that the subwoofer will handle frequencies below that.


Good job, and enjoy it!


----------



## Derko

Well I had already been looking for new speakers since I bought my TV back a few months ago. I bought a Samsung HLS-5087 DLP and wanted to replace my HTIB. My car died on me shortly after that and had to get a new car... so speakers were put on the back burner for a while. I had done my research and had it down to either the Athena's or JBLs. I wrote some info on all of it down somewhere... but can't find it. Had even chosen a receiver and sub. Then I saw a flyer for BB with 20% off all audio equipment and had to jump on it right away!



Anyways, I have the sub that came with my HTIB (SKW-330). It's not that great IMO, but I should keep the speakers on small then, correct?


----------



## emersite

Hi,


Thanks for the great info! I was going for a HTIB. Now...


I have two questions:


1 - I was targeting the Onkyo 605 or the HK 247 (or 347) based on the discussioons here. However, I found the Yamaha V661 for $366 (new), including shipping. Should I go for it? What are the Pros and Cons when comparing it to my previous choices?


2 - The Polk speakers are not on sale on Frys anymore. Do they go on sale on and off frequently? I had decided for the R300(f), CSR, R150(r) and don't know what to do. Should I wait? It looks like Athenas or AVS123 will be more $$.


Thank you!

Emerson



P.S. Previously, I had mistakenly posted this to the main HTIB thread


----------



## afrogt

The Fry's speakers come on sale at least every other Friday. Its not always the same models though.


And if you're talking about the R300 in store, they're still on sale until the end of today for $49ea. I still have the newspaper at my desk.
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...18207487&type= 



And Fry's.com has the R150's on sale for $49/pr.
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


And the CSR is $99 at crutchfield
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-n4ffpPc....aspx?I=107CSR 


So you have to shop at multiple places, but you get a great deal.


The Yamaha 661 doesn't upconvert composite, s-video and component to HDMI. It converts composite and s-video to component, but that's it. Other than that its got quite a nice feature set. I think it may have some features that the onkyo and HK lack but I can't remember those right now. Good price!


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12062593
> 
> 
> 1 - I was targeting the Onkyo 605 or the HK 247 (or 347) based on the discussions here. However, I found the Yamaha V661 for $366 (new), including shipping. Should I go for it? What are the Pros and Cons when comparing it to my previous choices?



I'd grab one - it's a great price.


----------



## emersite

Thanks afrogt!


The problem is that Fry's doesn't have the R300 in stock here in Seattle. At Frys.com it costs $199.


Would it be too bad if I go with four R150 instead of having the R300 at the front? This would still go with the CSR. And I am thinking about the Bic H-100 for the sub.


----------



## afrogt

4 bookshelfs and a center with a good sub, you'd be fine!


And if you want to save money, get the Velodyne VX-10 at your local Fry's, its only $150. The Bic H-100 will play lower though. If your main use is HT and not music, go for the Bic.


----------



## jokeaccount

This is my first post and I would like to get some feedback. I will set up a 5.1 system in my 11X12 room. I will mainly use it for my xbox 360 and watching movies. I was thinking about going with this setup.

*Speakers:*

Polk R300 (2) Front $49.99 Individual @ Fry's.

Polk R150's (2) Surround $49.99 pair @ Fry's.

Polk Polk CSi25 Center $49 @ Amazon.

or should I just buy Four R150's for main and surround?

*Subs:*

Will either go with a x-sub or BIC H-100 sub.

*Receiver:*

Panasonic SA-XR55S $169 @ Amazon.


I want to keep my speaker budget to about $250.


This is my first HT system that I am building. I have no experience whatsoever. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## afrogt

At that price go for the R300 towers. A pair of stands would cost you the extra $50 anyways.


That's a good first setup! Obviously you've read quite a bit here. Nice job!


----------



## Karrmer

I'm seeing the R300's as 199 each at Fry's, are they really only 49? What am I missing? That's an amazing deal if so.


----------



## jokeaccount

yes you have to add to cart then they show up as $49.


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12066160
> 
> 
> At that price go for the R300 towers. A pair of stands would cost you the extra $50 anyways.
> 
> 
> That's a good first setup! Obviously you've read quite a bit here. Nice job!



yeah you figured that out quickly. I have been beating my brains reading all the info on this forum for the last few days. I'm so glad I did cause I was going for one of those cheap HTIB. All this info has helped me SO much, even for someone who doesn't know squat about audio I have learned alot. So, once again thanks to everyone for all there help.


----------



## Karrmer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12066298
> 
> 
> yes you have to add to cart then they show up as $49.



Do you happen to know if the price is the same in store?


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12066323
> 
> 
> Do you happen to know if the price is the same in store?



I don't know about in store. What I did was order online and choose the option to pick them up at my local Fry's. It saved me on $49 shipping. So, if there is a Fry's near you just order online and pick them up at store. I ordered two r300's and one pair of r150's total came to $163.09. Hope that helps.


----------



## Karrmer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12066353
> 
> 
> I don't know about in store. What I did was order online and choose the option to pick them up at my local Fry's. It saved me on $49 shipping. So, if there is a Fry's near you just order online and pick them up at store. I ordered two r300's and one pair of r150's total came to $163.09. Hope that helps.



They have the R50's for 69.99, anyone know if they're much better? Should I just grab those instead and get the CSi3 center with the r150's for the rears?


----------



## Karrmer

Also, any tips on a receiver to grab if I'm planning on the R50 or R300 + CSi3 + R150s in the rear? HDMI isn't particularly important but enough component inputs and what not would be nice. I don't need anything fancy.


And for the sub I'm thinking the Bic? Or a polk or any advice there. Thanks in advance!


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12066353
> 
> 
> I don't know about in store. What I did was order online and choose the option to pick them up at my local Fry's. It saved me on $49 shipping. So, if there is a Fry's near you just order online and pick them up at store. I ordered two r300's and one pair of r150's total came to $163.09. Hope that helps.



In store pick up is a pilot program available only in the SF Bay Area right now. Scroll to the bottom of link for more info...
http://shop1.outpost.com/template/he...mesticShipping


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12066403
> 
> 
> Also, any tips on a receiver to grab if I'm planning on the R50 or R300 + CSi3 + R150s in the rear? HDMI isn't particularly important but enough component inputs and what not would be nice. I don't need anything fancy.
> 
> 
> And for the sub I'm thinking the Bic? Or a polk or any advice there. Thanks in advance!



How much are you willing to spend for the receiver?


If lack of HDMI doesn't bother you, then this closeout unit is a bargain! 3 component inputs, 5 optical inputs (1 front, 4 in back) , 2 coaxial inputs. THX certified.
http://www.ecost.com/Detail.aspx?edp=3301846 



More info here
http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-S...class=Receiver 


If you do want an HDMI unit, this is a deal
http://www.ecost.com/Detail.aspx?edp=35591672


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> The problem is that Fry's doesn't have the R300 in stock here in Seattle. At Frys.com it costs $199.



emersite, i guess they sold those out pretty quickly. i was just at fry's seattle last saturday and the R300s were $49 each. they are back online for that price but you would have to tack on 40 bucks for shipping. i almost went that route but decided to get a pair of RTi4s instead ($179 shipped from crutchfield). the consensus i got was that they sound better than the R300, so for ~$40 more i just went with the 4s. granted, they are bookshelves as opposed to floorstanders. and if you're still interested in the 605, accessories4less has it for about $380 shipped. although you're price for the 661 is significantly cheaper than i've ever seen it in the past couple of weeks that i've been price watching. according to the more experienced and knowledgeable people around these forums though, polk speakers are a good match with onkyo and HK receivers, not so much the yamahas. i don't have first hand experience or knowledge about this, just thought i'd pass it along...


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> yeah you figured that out quickly. I have been beating my brains reading all the info on this forum for the last few days. I'm so glad I did cause I was going for one of those cheap HTIB. All this info has helped me SO much, even for someone who doesn't know squat about audio I have learned alot. So, once again thanks to everyone for all there help.



i was just down that road not too long ago. remember reading all these posts in less than a week. thank goodness i stumbled upon this thread, i was almost ready to buy an onkyo or sony HTIB







. as for subs, the bic h-100 gets universal praise (at the $250 price point) specially for HT use. if you have a 100 bucks more to spend for it, the eD subs get great reviews. but the industrial look of it isn't for everyone. personally, i'm still deciding whether i can stand it.



> Quote:
> In store pick up is a pilot program available only in the SF Bay Area right now. Scroll to the bottom of link for more info...
> http://shop1.outpost.com/template/he...mesticShipping



afrogt, that answers my question. i've been wondering how people get to that option of picking up in store. it would be great if they roll that out nationwide.


----------



## newY_lcd

Polk R150 is 100w or less?


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12066353
> 
> 
> I don't know about in store. What I did was order online and choose the option to pick them up at my local Fry's. It saved me on $49 shipping. So, if there is a Fry's near you just order online and pick them up at store. I ordered two r300's and one pair of r150's total came to $163.09. Hope that helps.



Actually someone called me from frys saying that the r300 were open box. these were open box from the store that i wanted to pick up from. So i canceled my whole order and instead ordered them from online and got the same stuff for $216. sucks cause had to pay $49 shipping but at least its brand new and not open box.


----------



## jokeaccount

I want to know what gauge of speaker wire i need? Is 16 gauge the standard? Wanted to get the Panasonic SA-XR555 in black from amazon buy its only available in silver. wont go with my HT. I'm considering the onkyo TX-SR304 receiver. Amazon has two different models 304B and 304S. Is there any difference between them expect the color? Or should i just get a Factory Reconditioned 304 from accessories4less.com with 3 year total protection plan? Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/s******nb_ss_e...-SR304&x=0&y=0 

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-.../ONLTXSR304BLK


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12074584
> 
> 
> I want to know what gauge of speaker wire i need? Is 16 gauge the standard? Wanted to get the Panasonic SA-XR555 in black from amazon buy its only available in silver. wont go with my HT. I'm considering the onkyo TX-SR304 receiver. Amazon has two different models 304B and 304S. Is there any difference between them expect the color?



16 ga is fine unless you have runs over 50 feet then 14 is recommended. I usually go with 14 and forget about it, the price difference isn't that much.


To bad on the XR-55 it's a great receiver, turn the lights off then you won't know it doesn't match, lol.


Color is the only differece between the 304B and S, B indicating Black, S = Silver.


----------



## Florida_Gator

I went with the R50s (rather than the R300s) for the fronts, CSR for center, and R150s for surounds. VERY pleased with this combo. The R50s (when on sale at Fry's) are only $40 more for the pair than the R300s, and they have a noticably fuller sound. The R300s are the same speaker as the R150s, but in a tower configuration. The only draw-back is that the R50s are cherry, while the rest are black. Not a problem (the cherry veneer is very nice), but worth noting. Definitely worth the price difference though!


----------



## Florida_Gator

Karrmer,


I just checked -- right now, (Wednesday, 10/31) Frys has the R300s on sale for $50 each, and the R50s are at the regular $199 each price. If you have to buy NOW, the R300s at $50 are tough to beat (no to mention their great price on the pair of R150s for $50). Then get the CSR at Crutchfield for $100. But my advice is to wait for the R50s to go on sale (usually $70), and get those -- you wont be sorry.


----------



## Karrmer

I'm thinking I may grab an Onkyo receiver, CSR center, and R150's all around for cheap and then grab the R50's for the fronts when those go on sale.


----------



## Florida_Gator

Sounds like a good plan. I went with the Onkyo 505 and am very happy with it with my Polk speakers.


For around $600 total, you'll have a very nice system, that's fully upgradable, and better than 99% of the HTiB systems out there:


$100 - 2 pairs of R150s for fronts and surrounds

$100 - 1 CSR for center

$250 - Onkyo 505 (or similar) receiver

$150 - decent sub


Then when you're ready to go to 7.1, move your R150s from the front to the rear, and replace them with R50s. I plan on adding another pair of R150s to my setup once more 7.1 material is available (not really worth it to me now).


----------



## blynch1

I keep putting off buying a center to go with my cherry r50s, but I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a csi3.

Question is, does the finish on the cherry csi3 match the r50s?

If it matches well, I will get it, if not I will save $20 and get the black csi3 for 130.


edit: I guess crutchfield doesn't have free shipping on the csi3, so it would be a $30 difference


----------



## Karrmer

One more question... the CSR is matched for the R300 or R150, but what about the R50's? Should I still get a CSR center?


----------



## Ron Temple

Looks like a feeding frenzy on the Rs







...


Someone asked about the cherry finish on the 50s and the CSi3...not a match, the 3 is real wood veneer, the R is vinyl...that being said it's close enough for horseshoes. I like cherry R50s better than black.


R50s have a slightly different soundstage than the R300s, but they are very similar. For the sales prices, they are a very good deal.


The CSR matches both the 50s and 300s...the 3 is a better speaker, not a bad thing in the center, but don't fret about it...both the CSR and CSi3 will work...if you think you're going to go up the Polk line, then the 3 makes sense.


Have some fun. You're doing much better than htib and experiencing on the cheap what this hobby is all about.


----------



## jokeaccount

I narrowed down my choice to the two receivers that I want to choose.

Panasonic SA-XR55S or Onkyo TX-SR304. There similar is price at amazon.com but the Onkyo is $10 cheaper. Now I really need help on deciding which receiver I should go with. I'm leaning more toward the 304 but I don't know. Its for a 11X12 room and I don't think i'll go 7.1 or is it worth getting a 7.1 just in case i decide to for 7.1 in the future. Or is there another receiver that you guys recommend under $200. What one do you guys recommenced I do? Thanks.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12078345
> 
> 
> I narrowed down my choice to the two receivers that I want to choose.
> 
> Panasonic SA-XR55S or Onkyo TX-SR304. There similar is price at amazon.com but the Onkyo is $10 cheaper. Now I really need help on deciding which receiver I should go with. Which one do you guys recommenced? Thanks.



Most if not all will tell you the XR-55 for sound quality, has more digital inputs, smaller, lighter and runs cooler, so if you're sticking it in an enclosed area go with it, It's also a 7.1 receiver vs 5.1 for the 304. The 304 is more user friendly with the menus.


If you decide on the 304 check out shoponkyo.com can't beat it at the price, $109 shipped after signing up with the website and using the $10 first time buyers credit.


----------



## Karrmer

OK, last question, seriously.


How much better would two RTi4's in front + CSi3 + R150's in the rear be over the two R50's + CSR + R150's? Is it worth grabbing the RTi's or no?


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12081123
> 
> 
> OK, last question, seriously.
> 
> 
> How much better would two RTi4's in front + CSi3 + R150's in the rear be over the two R50's + CSR + R150's? Is it worth grabbing the RTi's or no?



Yes: the RTi4 are one of the most popular Polk Audio speakers, and they have real wood veneer (not vinyl). The CSi3 is also an excellent center and that can make such a huge difference, for dialogue when watching movies especially (it's actually better to have no center at all than a weak or mismatched one IMO). If you can afford the upgrade (which is relatively modest at todays closeout prices on the RTi and CSi 2007 range) it's an excellent idea. If you can't, you'll still get an excellent HT experience from the R50 and CSR IMHO.

_P.S. there's no need to make that your last question BTW if something else occurs to you later. Most (all?) forum members are happy to help. We've all been there ourselves at some stage._


----------



## srjune1101

Hi, I got my Onkyo 505 receiver yesterday. I am still waiting on cables/speaker wires to hook it to the speakers. But i was just curious to see how the video output works(i know there is no upconversion). But just hooked up my DVD player via YBR(component), VCR via Composite and Dish receiver via Composite cables to Onkyo 505's input and used a Svideo cable from 505 monitor out to my TV's Svideo Input. But there is no video display on my TV. I also tried changing the Svideo to another Composite cable. Still it doesnt work. Am i missing something here ?


----------



## Karrmer

OK, so I've opted to go with the RTi4 and CSi3 setup..


I've been looking around though and can't really find any good stands for the fronts and mounts for the rear R150's, anyone know of a good place to grab those from? I looked around Crutchfield and Fry's and what not but I might just be missing em. That, or I'm blind.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12082798
> 
> 
> ... I've been looking around though and can't really find any good stands for the fronts and mounts for the rear R150's, ...



Try partsexpress.com. I haven't tried them myself so I have no idea how good they are. The RTi4 also have a keyhole mount included in the rear power port.

http://www.partsexpress.com/audio-video-accessories.cfm


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/12082773
> 
> 
> Hi, I got my Onkyo 505 receiver yesterday. I am still waiting on cables/speaker wires to hook it to the speakers. But i was just curious to see how the video output works(i know there is no upconversion). But just hooked up my DVD player via YBR(component), VCR via Composite and Dish receiver via Composite cables to Onkyo 505's input and used a Svideo cable from 505 monitor out to my TV's Svideo Input. But there is no video display on my TV. I also tried changing the Svideo to another Composite cable. Still it doesnt work. Am i missing something here ?



You need to go composite or component cable to your tv. If I were you I would go component cable for all of them so you will just have 1 cable going into your tv. You cant mix and match cables and expect it to convert a componet signal to an s video signal. It isnt possible with the 505.

hope this explains this problem.

-Rich


----------



## afrogt

These stands are 25" high. Not sure how high you need your speakers to be...

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1ENCST 


Amazon had 31" stands for $47 shipped

SANUS SYSTEMS BF-31B


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/12082773
> 
> 
> Hi, I got my Onkyo 505 receiver yesterday. I am still waiting on cables/speaker wires to hook it to the speakers. But i was just curious to see how the video output works(i know there is no upconversion). But just hooked up my DVD player via YBR(component), VCR via Composite and Dish receiver via Composite cables to Onkyo 505's input and used a Svideo cable from 505 monitor out to my TV's Svideo Input. But there is no video display on my TV. I also tried changing the Svideo to another Composite cable. Still it doesnt work. Am i missing something here ?



Not familiar with that receiver or Onkyo's in general but it should tell you in the manual. Generally the minimum functionality I would expect would be to be able to take a composite input and sent it out the composite output. Depending on the features it may be able to take composite input and send it out another type like S-Video or Component. Composite and S-Video inputs are usually one per input on the receiver and don't need to be assigned to an input but you may need to set which one it is using somehow. Component inputs on the other hand usually need to be assigned because you have several less component inputs than you do inputs over all. My HK defaulted component 1 to the DVD input and I expect that would be pretty common practice. You probably need to hook the receiver up to the tv with component if you want it to send the component video from your DVD player to the TV. If you receiver doesn't convert from one type to another then you'll want to stick to one type as much as possible or you end up having to switch inputs on the TV and the receiver both which is annoying.


----------



## afrogt

The 505 doesn't do any upconversion of video signals at all. So if you go composite in you have to also go composite out. Component In = Component Out. With nothing connected to the s-video inputs on the receiver, you nothing to send to the TV via the s-video out.


If you have component and composite video cables connected to the inputs of your receiver, you'll need both component and composite cables from the monitor out of the receiver to your TV.


And if you have to do all that, you might as well connect your video devices directly to the TV and just send the audio cables to the receiver.


----------



## Karrmer

Thanks for all the help guys. Finally going to stop using the built in speakers on my Panasonic plasma and get me a system!


With all the assistance I've opted for this:


Onkyo TXSR604

Polk RTi4 x2 in front

Polk CSi3 center

Polk R150 rear


and probably an HSU sub from a friend of mine, or a BIC H100 if I can't get his.


Used Monoprice to get a ton of cables for like 50 bucks, and I found some stands and mounts at Fry's for pretty cheap. All together this system is probably going to run me $750.00 so not that shabby. I hope it sounds good


----------



## srjune1101

Thanks Evan/afrogt/onebxr, It makes Sense. But should'nt the Composite I/P from my VCR and Dish Receiver be transmitted to the TV via the Composite Cable ? I will try to use the Component I/P for all going fwd. But was just curious to know why this doesnt work ?


Edited: Thanks Afrogt for yr edit ," If you have component and composite video cables connected to the inputs of your receiver, you'll need both component and composite cables from the monitor out of the receiver to your TV." I think having a Component I/P to the receiver and not a O/P to the TV might have been preventing the Composite to not display video on TV.


Afrogt, If i go by yr reply "And if you have to do all that, you might as well connect your video devices directly to the TV and just send the audio cables to the receiver." Should'nt i have to switch TV I/Ps and then also the Receiver Audio I/Ps ? Please advice.


Thanks a million.


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> OK, so I've opted to go with the RTi4 and CSi3 setup..



Karrmer, last week i was in the same shoes as you are right now. i decided to go with the same setup as well (in no small measure due to the opinion of the knowledgeable people in these forums, you know who you are







). for around ~20 buck more, you move up in the polk line up. the CSi3 is $25 cheaper at electronics-expo vs crutchfield, just to let you know. but i decided to order from the latter because of their great customer service and liberal return policy. also ordered the sanus BF-31 ($50 shipped)speaker stands there for the RTi4. IMO, they look good, and the wife likes them so that's a big plus. i was missing a few parts for them though but one call to sanus customer service, and the missing parts will be shipped tomorrow. i would NOT hesitate to buy another sanus product based on that excellent CS experience. now i'm just waiting on my HK receiver so i can power up these babies!!


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/12083188
> 
> 
> Thanks Evan/afrogt/onebxr, It makes Sense. But should'nt the Composite I/P from my VCR and Dish Receiver be transmitted to the TV via the Composite Cable ? I will try to use the Component I/P for all going fwd. But was just curious to know why this doesnt work ?



From what others have said about this receiver and receivers in general yes I would have expected that Composite input from the VCR and Dish Receiver would have gone out to the TV over the Composite out. If thats not working make sure you have the TV and Receiver both on the right inputs and that all cables are connected up to the correct spot.


Also try connecting one of them directly to your TV to make sure the composite output on the device and input on the TV is working correctly. I've seem some tv's that share composite and S-video inputs and will prefer the S-video over composite if both are hooked up.


> Quote:
> Edited: Thanks Afrogt for yr edit ," If you have component and composite video cables connected to the inputs of your receiver, you'll need both component and composite cables from the monitor out of the receiver to your TV." I think having a Component I/P to the receiver and not a O/P to the TV might have been preventing the Composite to not display video on TV.
> 
> 
> Afrogt, If i go by yr reply "And if you have to do all that, you might as well connect your video devices directly to the TV and just send the audio cables to the receiver." Should'nt i have to switch TV I/Ps and then also the Receiver Audio I/Ps ? Please advice.
> 
> 
> Thanks a million.



If you have all of your devices connected to your receiver with the same type of cable, IE everything uses composite, then you would be able to leave your TV on the one composite input that the receiver is hooked up to and just switch inputs on the receiver. If you have some devices using component and some using S-Video and some using composite since your receiver doesn't convert between the different formats you will need to switch the inputs on both the receiver to the the correct device and your TV to the correct type of connection from your receiver. If you have 2 component devices you can still switch back and forth between them using just the receiver since the TV needs to be on component for both. If you switch between a component device and a S-Video device you would need to switch your tv from the component input from the receiver to the S-Video input from the receiver.


More expensive receivers will generally convert between the types of connections and sometimes even up-convert to higher resolutions if desired. For example my HK 340 will take any type of input and convert it to component at 480i so that I only need to have component cables hooked up from my receiver to my TV. Doesn't matter if I've got a vcr hooked up with S-video and an old nintendo hooked up with composite they will all go over component to my tv so no need to switch inputs.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Afrogt, If i go by yr reply "And if you have to do all that, you might as well connect your video devices directly to the TV and just send the audio cables to the receiver." Should'nt i have to switch TV I/Ps and then also the Receiver Audio I/Ps ? Please advice.



Yes, you'd have to switch TV inputs as well as receiver inputs. But if you're gonna run composite AND component video from your receiver, you'd have to do that anyway.


I don't think its much of an inconvenience, others might.


----------



## srjune1101

Thanks afrogt and Evan. Its clear now. I will play with it tonight.


----------



## Derko

I know I was helped already... I wanted to know if there was anything that I could do to improve the way my system sounds? I have the the JBLs Monitors and the Voice for a center channel, connected to a HT-R330. Any tips?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Derko* /forum/post/12086526
> 
> 
> I know I was helped already... I wanted to know if there was anything that I could do to improve the way my system sounds? I have the the JBLs Monitors and the Voice for a center channel, connected to a HT-R330. Any tips?



Do you have a subwoofer? That would help tremendously.


If you so, set all your speakers to small with a x-over of 80hz. That way your subwoofer handles all the low frequencies freeing up your JBL's to do what they do best.


Did you calibrate your speakers? Get a SPL meter from Radio shack and then run the test tones on the receiver. Instructions how calibrate with test tones can be found in link.

http://www.techlore.com/article/10037/


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12088685
> 
> 
> ... Did you calibrate your speakers? Get a SPL meter from Radio shack and then run the test tones on the receiver. Instructions how calibrate with test tones can be found in link.
> 
> http://www.techlore.com/article/10037/



Great link *afrogt*, thanks! I actually think h/k EzSet/EQ did a decent job, but I'll check it again now with that added (simple to understand) information.


----------



## aped

Just won a set of Fluance SX-HTB+ from the fluance ebay store for $190 + $30 shipping, I was planning on getting the Radiient calypsos but they ran out too fast







. Seems like these might be slightly more capable of filling my largish room, anyway.


I'm going to be driving them from my m-audio LX4's sub for the time being, since I haven't got enough dough for a proper receiver and 12" sub to go with them, yet. For a sub I'm considering the Dayton sub-120 or maybe a bic h-100, depending on how much money I can muster.


I haven't looked much at receivers yet, maybe something like the Panasonic XR-55. Maybe I could save some money by getting one of similar quality but with only 5.1? What do you guys think, I'm open to suggestions







.


----------



## jokeaccount

I want to get a toslink cable to connect my xbox 360 to my receiver but I don't know which one to get. Monoprice has some that are 5.0mm and some 8.0mm which ones will work with the xbox 360? The 5.0mm seem to have different plugs on the both ends of the cable and the 8.0mm has same plugs on both ends of the cable. Please help.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> I haven't looked much at receivers yet, maybe something like the Panasonic XR-55. Maybe I could save some money by getting one of similar quality but with only 5.1? What do you guys think, I'm open to suggestions



How much are you looking to save? The Panny XR-55 is only $169.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12092828
> 
> 
> I want to get a toslink cable to connect my xbox 360 to my receiver but I don't know which one to get. Monoprice has some that are 5.0mm and some 8.0mm which ones will work with the xbox 360? The 5.0mm seem to have different plugs on the both ends of the cable and the 8.0mm has same plugs on both ends of the cable. Please help.



The XBox uses a standard optical cable. Just don't forget to take off the clear plastic bubble on each end.
http://www.etoys.com/genProduct.html...i_src=14110944 


The 5.0mm vs the 8.0mm at monoprice is the thickness of the cable not a difference in connectors. The connectors are the same. Some have the plastic bubble on the end which needs to be removed before installing.


Either will work fine for your Xbox.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aped* /forum/post/12092772
> 
> 
> Just won a set of Fluance SX-HTB+ from the fluance ebay store for $190 + $30 shipping, I was planning on getting the Radiient calypsos but they ran out too fast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Seems like these might be slightly more capable of filling my largish room, anyway.
> 
> 
> I'm going to be driving them from my m-audio LX4's sub for the time being, since I haven't got enough dough for a proper receiver and 12" sub to go with them, yet. For a sub I'm considering the Dayton sub-120 or maybe a bic h-100, depending on how much money I can muster.
> 
> 
> I haven't looked much at receivers yet, maybe something like the Panasonic XR-55. Maybe I could save some money by getting one of similar quality but with only 5.1? What do you guys think, I'm open to suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



For a sub, go with the H-100, it's worth the few extra $$ over the Dayton. I've used both and the Dayton was 1 noted and boomy no matter where I placed it or how I calibrated it, also the H-100 looks much nicer to if that matters to you.


For the price Amazon has going on the XR-55, it's going to be hard to beat, you can get a 304 refurb and save a few bucks which is a nice budget 5.1 receiver. As for SQ most if not all will tell you the XR-55 is the way to go, also has more digital inputs. The 304 is quite limited in connections in comparison.


----------



## aped




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12093356
> 
> 
> How much are you looking to save? The Panny XR-55 is only $169.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12096922
> 
> 
> For a sub, go with the H-100, it's worth the few extra $$ over the Dayton. I've used both and the Dayton was 1 noted and boomy no matter where I placed it or how I calibrated it, also the H-100 looks much nicer to if that matters to you.
> 
> 
> For the price Amazon has going on the XR-55, it's going to be hard to beat, you can get a 304 refurb and save a few bucks which is a nice budget 5.1 receiver. As for SQ most if not all will tell you the XR-55 is the way to go, also has more digital inputs. The 304 is quite limited in connections in comparison.



Thanks for the info, guys. Guess I will be saving up for the H-100 and XR-55, then. I suppose the extra 2 surround channels wouldn't hurt if I upgraded speakers later on as well.


----------



## Derko

I want to replace my receiver with something better, just because I want to pass a long the speakers that I recently replaced to another room. I do not want to spend above $250 for a receiver, because my budget for everything was pretty much $700 for everything and I already spent $340 on the speakers, and still need a sub. Would the XR-55 be the best route to go? What else could I get to replace my HT-R330 that would be better?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Derko* /forum/post/12103358
> 
> 
> I want to replace my receiver with something better, just because I want to pass a long the speakers that I recently replaced to another room. I do not want to spend above $250 for a receiver, because my budget for everything was pretty much $700 for everything and I already spent $340 on the speakers, and still need a sub. Would the XR-55 be the best route to go? What else could I get to replace my HT-R330 that would be better?



For the price it's going for right now and your budget requirements I would say yes. The only other options I'd recommend is moving to 504 or 574 with onkyo. The 304 is a nice budget receiver. moving to a 5xx receiver is probably not going to be an upgrade in SQ, minimal at most, but you'll get more features. Most will tell you the xr-55 wins out at the price for SQ. There is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG thread on the xr-55 and 57 in the receiver forum if you want to search.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=xr-55


----------



## jokeaccount

Ran a little over my budget and all I can get now for the sub is either Velodyne VX-10 or Dayton SUB-100. Which ones do you guys recommend? Also the VX-10 shown in the pictures in purple, is the actual color purple or black? don't like purple.

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.asp...grabberVLDVX10 

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...211151#reviews


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12107825
> 
> 
> Ran a little over my budget and all I can get now for the sub is either Velodyne VX-10 or Dayton SUB-100. Which ones do you guys recommend? Also the VX-10 shown in the pictures in purple, is the actual color purple or black? don't like purple.
> 
> http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.asp...grabberVLDVX10
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...211151#reviews



Personally I'd go with the velo. I haven't tried the 10" Dayton but I have the 12. If they are anything alike, which I'm guessing they are, it was one noted and boomy. I tried everything to like it so I wouldn't have to pay return shipping but after 3 weeks of moving it around, calibrting, swearing, it went back.


----------



## tschrad

My audio system is almost complete thanks to the help of this thread. I opted for the HK AVR247, Polk R50s, Polk CSi3, Bic100, monoprice cables to go along with the Panasonic plasma. I may add some rear speakers down the road.


My current problem is placing the center channel speaker. With the entertainment system I have, the CSi3 does not fit on the shelves below the TV. The speaker is too tall. I tried an Omnimount shelf to go on top of the plasma but the tv was too narrow for the rear support feet to fit. Does anyone have any suggestions for mounting the center channel speaker above the tv, or preferably on the tv? I was hoping to find a shelf that attaches to the tv, maybe where the wall mounting system would attach.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tschrad* /forum/post/12112549
> 
> 
> My audio system is almost complete thanks to the help of this thread. I opted for the HK AVR247, Polk R50s, Polk CSi3, Bic100, monoprice cables to go along with the Panasonic plasma. I may add some rear speakers down the road.
> 
> 
> My current problem is placing the center channel speaker. With the entertainment system I have, the CSi3 does not fit on the shelves below the TV. The speaker is too tall. I tried an Omnimount shelf to go on top of the plasma but the tv was too narrow for the rear support feet to fit. Does anyone have any suggestions for mounting the center channel speaker above the tv, or preferably on the tv? I was hoping to find a shelf that attaches to the tv, maybe where the wall mounting system would attach.



This may not be the solution your looking for but the wire closet/laundry room shelving similar or the same as the link below can be picked up at Lowes or Home Depot. It comes in a few different depths. One section with mounting hardware wouldn't cost that much and it can be cut to size. Easy to mount to the wall. You could mount it directly above the plasma. It can be painted to match your tv or you can cover it with material to give a custom look.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...300&lpage=none


----------



## jokeaccount

Can you please tell me if the VX-10 is actually purple like in the pics or is it black? Thanks.

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=VLDVX10


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12113309
> 
> 
> Can you please tell me if the VX-10 is actually purple like in the pics or is it black? Thanks.
> 
> http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=VLDVX10



Here's another pic of it, it's more black, I've never heard of a purple subwoofer. Probably just the lighting in the pic. Sounds like a neat idea though, The Velodyne Smuf Series. Depending on the size Smurfette all the way up to Papa Smurf.

http://shopping.aol.com/velodyne-vx1...690869/reviews


----------



## jokeaccount

I'm deciding on these two center channel speakers. The RM6752 is $71.96 shipped from amazon and the Csi25 is $49.88 + $19 shipping =$68. Which one do you guys recommend? i.e which one is better in term of performance? Thanks.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12116839
> 
> 
> I'm deciding on these two center channel speakers. The RM6752 is $71.96 shipped from amazon and the Csi25 is $49.88 + $19 shipping =$68. Which one do you guys recommend? i.e which one is better in term of performance? Thanks.



Comparing speaker to speaker the CS is the better of the two. What matters more is matching with your fronts, what speakers are you using.?


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12117031
> 
> 
> Comparing speaker to speaker the CS is the better of the two. What matters more is matching with your fronts, what speakers are you using.?



I'm using polk r300's as the fronts and r150's as my rears w/ Panasonic SA-XR55S and velo vx10 sub. The xr-55 Impedance 6-8 Ohms and the Csi is 4 Ohms, will that be to much for the receiver? And the RM is 8 Ohms. Is it better to go with RM sense its Ohms falls within the receiver? Thanks


----------



## TNTitans

I have a similar question as jokeaccount, but I'm looking at the CSR, CSi3, and CS1. Out of those three which one would be the best? I'm getting this setup and I already have the T.V.


2 polk r300's-front

2 polk r150's-surround

Bic H100-sub

Vizio vx37-TV

Onkyo TX-SR605-reciever


----------



## DSTRETCH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DSTRETCH* /forum/post/11950240
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the info on this thread. My situation is I only have 5.5 inches of height between shelves on my TV stand, so I had to look for both a receiver center channel speaker that fit.
> 
> 
> Here is what I have come up with:
> 
> 
> Panasonic XR55 or XR57
> 
> Athena F1.2 Fronts
> 
> Athena LS-C50 Center
> 
> Bic H -100 Sub
> 
> Rears add later
> 
> 
> Your thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!



Still trying to decide and am looking at these two speaker packages:


R50 Fronts(Frys)

CSi3 Center


vs.


Athena F1.2 Fronts(Audio Advisor)

Athena C.2 Center


Any thoughts on which to go with?


Thanks,


D


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DSTRETCH* /forum/post/12130048
> 
> 
> Still trying to decide and am looking at these two speaker packages:
> 
> 
> R50 Fronts(Frys)
> 
> CSi3 Center
> 
> 
> vs.
> 
> 
> Athena F1.2 Fronts(Audio Advisor)
> 
> Athena C.2 Center
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on which to go with?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> D



Humm, both are great deals. Speakers are very much preference of taste so it's really hard to answer which you will prefer. I can tell you I'd go for the Athenas in a heartbeat. I've got them on both my systems now. When I was building my system I put them up against many other speakers at the price or more and nothing came close for me including the polk r15s which were out at the time. I don't know how they compaire with the others in the R series though. But again preference, objectively I can tell you that the athenas will be a have more emphasis and detail in the higher frequencies, some call it a bright sound.


----------



## tinga81

Considering my options, after reading through all this:


How does this sound?


Onkyo 705 - 609.99

(2) Polk R300 - 99.98

(2 sets, 4 individual) Polk R150 - 99.98

Athena AS-C1.2 - 162.43

Unknown sub as of yet.


Pre-tax: $972.38


I need some thoughts/re-assurance everything is all good before I pull the trigger. It's my first "big" audio purchase, and I don't want to mess it up.


Thanks!


----------



## afrogt

Sounds fine but if you're gonna get Polk main speakers and surrounds, you should also get a polk center. The Athena doesn't match the Polks in sound.


You can find a Polk Center on Amazon for less than the Athena easily.


----------



## tinga81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12133666
> 
> 
> Sounds fine but if you're gonna get Polk main speakers and surrounds, you should also get a polk center. The Athena doesn't match the Polks in sound.
> 
> 
> You can find a Polk Center on Amazon for less than the Athena easily.



I was wondering about matching. Glad you provided some clarification.


I am trying to price a full system out @ o-n-e-c-a-l-l.com because I have some gift certificates to use. I read earlier in the thread that the Athena was decent, so I scouted one out that I found there. I went with all Polk speakers for the rest because they seem to be a popular choice. They don't list those Polk speakers at o-n-e-c-a-l-l, so I'm going to get them from fry's on my own dime. My options are kind of limited at o-n-e-c-a-l-l for Polk center's in the same price range.


Please take a look, and let me know if there is anything comparable in the price range of that Athena that you would pick up. Remove the hyphens (wow, is the spam here really bad that I can't use URL's? .. ugh)

o-n-e-c-a-l-l.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=378+1161 


I am not set on purchasing any specifics yet, but if anyone wants to give it a go and price out a similar speaker set at that site, and let me know .. that would be outstanding. I am kinda set on that receiver, however.


----------



## smfrazz

Been lurking here and I like the idea of the thread. While I understand why most of the discussion is focused on sub-$1000 pricing I still would like to hear people's recommendations on systems costing in the range of $1500-$2000...with a greater focus on buying a better receiver and two front speakers with lower cost surrounds and subs that can be upgraded later. This way I have a decent start and can listen to music with a nicer system and 5.1/6.1 or 7.1 system that is OK but can be upgraded as budget (read wife) allows.


Thanks!

-Stephen


----------



## sotaboy

I'm interested in the 247, but now a little leery. Why do so many of them show up on Ebay as refurbished? Is the one I buy gonna be sent back because of problems, and show up again there? Also, I find it strange that basically all of them wind up selling at the same price. Could be market value, but, could someone be manipulating the market? I'm not a conspiracy fanatic, but I find it a little strange.


----------



## Zeusdafreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/10349404
> 
> 
> If you're going Polk...
> 
> 
> The CSi25, CSR, and CSM are the same speaker with different cosmetics and timbre match the R series speakers.
> 
> 
> The CS1 and 2 match the monitor line, but work very well with the R series. Not a total timbre match, but you might prefer the beefier center...has a bit more bass response.
> 
> 
> The CSi3 and 5 match the RTi line. The 5 is the best all round center that Polk makes, it's huge, but it kicks ass. The 3 is much easier to fit in your system and is excellent for dialog. The CSis are brighter than the other lines, but are better made and have better components. If the price is right, you might as well score one. ($25.00 is a no brainer, if the guy is reputable, buy it - check it out first though).
> 
> 
> The Polk lineup all have tonal similarities...as you move up the lines, you get better workmanship and components, better imaging, detail and soundstage, but none are dogs and you can mix lines with good results. For example, I used a CSi3 with my R50 fronts...



Would this setup balance ok on the front stage:


1- CSi5 Center

2- R50s

4- R150s

BIC H100


Would the upgraded center be too hard to balance?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zeusdafreak* /forum/post/12139207
> 
> 
> Would this setup balance ok on the front stage:
> 
> 
> 1- CSi5 Center
> 
> 2- R50s
> 
> 4- R150s
> 
> BIC H100
> 
> 
> Would the upgraded center be too hard to balance?



The CSi5 is a very nice center. It will work just fine. The SQ is quite a bit better than the Rs, which are good and it will make you itch to upgrade to at least an RTi front soundstage LCR. However, you won't regret getting the 5.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sotaboy* /forum/post/12138717
> 
> 
> I'm interested in the 247, but now a little leery. Why do so many of them show up on Ebay as refurbished? Is the one I buy gonna be sent back because of problems, and show up again there? Also, I find it strange that basically all of them wind up selling at the same price. Could be market value, but, could someone be manipulating the market? I'm not a conspiracy fanatic, but I find it a little strange.



If you've read this thread then you know I've had problems with the HK refurbs...more annoyances really, cuz when they break, HK sends you a new one. I've tried other options and I just can't find a better sounding AVR. I still have my 245, it's a wonderful pre/pro.


Others haven't had problem one...and yes, pricing tends to stay within a pricing range. You can still get phenomenal deals by being patient.


----------



## vinipux77

While we are on this subject, I have nothing but GREAT experience to share about Harman Audio sales. The same units are sold through their online store, but prices on eBay are naturally better. You still get the same great products and outstanding service.

It seems to me, their eBay store just gets orders to sell batches of equipment they have on the factory, so it may seem that there are a lot. Believe me, it took me a while to find the 3845 on sale and then wait until prices went to reasonable levels after a while.


HK, JBL and Infinity are mass market brands, so these units represent ALL their products countrywide that were returned or had problems.


----------



## evan_s

I pretty much built my sound system from Harmon Audio on ebay. I've got an hk 340 AVR and JBL L/C/R speakers. So far I've been happy with them all and have had no problems.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smfrazz* /forum/post/12136953
> 
> 
> Been lurking here and I like the idea of the thread. While I understand why most of the discussion is focused on sub-$1000 pricing I still would like to hear people's recommendations on systems costing in the range of $1500-$2000...with a greater focus on buying a better receiver and two front speakers with lower cost surrounds and subs that can be upgraded later. This way I have a decent start and can listen to music with a nicer system and 5.1/6.1 or 7.1 system that is OK but can be upgraded as budget (read wife) allows.



if i had $2K to spend on a 5.1 system, i would take a hard look at the onkyo 605 for a receiver (~$400), b/c it can process all of the new audio codecs over HDMI. H/K's have a nicer sound, but are more expensive than the 605 if you want to hear all the new HD audio formats.


there are so many speaker options...tops on my list would be AV123 or Ascends, followed by maybe the new SVS line or Axioms for internet direct. if you want to go B&M, the field gets even bigger, and you're best bet is to go to a higher-end shop and listen for yourself.


don't sell the sub short...it is the key to a good HT, IMO. it would be hard to top any of the $500 - $800 subs from SVS, HSU, or elemental designs in terms of performance.


spend as little as possible on the cables (monoprice) and make sure to invest in an SPL meter, so that your $2K system can perform properly as it should... the best move you can make, once you've got all your gear.


good luck.


----------



## Karrmer

So I ordered everything last Thursday..


Polk R150 pair from Fry's (outpost.com)


Polk RTi4 Pair + CSi3 from crutchfield


Onkyo 604 from ecost


cables all over from monoprice.com



I received the cables and the 16 gauge speaker wire is just completely missing. That was pretty cool, so I'm called them to get that shipped out but that is quite a hassle and I'm not too excited about it.


Also, ecost.com still hasn't even shipped my order and everyone else has already had their packages arrive (AND ecost was the fastest shipping, I paid for 2 day)


That really upset me and I've called 3 days in a row and they keep saying it'll ship but it never does. Finally today the guy insists it's shipping now and changed it to priority overnight, so we'll see how that goes.


Overall not pleased with ecost.com and I'm just going to hope monoprice had a fluke and screwed the pooch on that one. Not hugely impressed with either dealer..


----------



## Florida_Gator

Karrmer,


Sounds like a really nice setup. You're going to be very pleasantly surprised by the (inexpensive) R150s for your rears.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zeusdafreak* /forum/post/12139207
> 
> 
> Would this setup balance ok on the front stage:
> 
> 
> 1- CSi5 Center
> 
> 2- R50s
> 
> 4- R150s
> 
> BIC H100
> 
> 
> Would the upgraded center be too hard to balance?



You might have to adjust your center, relative to the others, but it should be fine.


FWIW, I have R50s and the CSR for my front "sound stage", and most of the time, I can't tell what speaker the sound is coming from (perfect voice match). Having said that, I do have my CSR at a slightly higher relative level than the R50s -- you probably won't have to do that.


----------



## will_19_

I'm a complete noob to all of this so I was contemplating spending the money for an Onkyo HT-SP908. However, the prices on them keep going up on a daily basis and I have about a week before I can buy.


I'm thinking about purchasing the Onkyo 605 or 705 so I can fully utilize my Toshiba HD-A2. My budget is right around $800 and I can get the 705 or around $550. I think my biggest problem now is getting the speakers and the sub for what I have left.


I will mostly use the system for DVD's and HD Dish Programming. 7.1 isn't as important to me at this point as having something with high quality. I can always get two more speakers later when more DVD's come out in 7.1.


Does anyone have any suggestions for a speaker set (or individual pieces) that I can pick up for around $300?


----------



## Karrmer

Just figured I'd note that when ecost.com still hadn't shipped my order out 3 business days after I'd placed it, I asked them to cancel the whole thing because it was getting ridiculous having them insist it would ship each day I called and then having it just not happen.


The guy apologizes, insists they'll ship it that night and will be doing it priority overnight shipping if I agree to not cancel. So I say OK, fine, that sounds good.



It just shipped and it was shipped standard two day shipping. I am not excited and will probably be calling them to cancel it all because that is just horrendous service.


----------



## afrogt

But then you'll have to wait and buy another unit which will take more time to ship. If the receiver gets there safely and works fine, just go with that.


But if it upsets you that much, go ahead and cancel. It is your money.


----------



## afrogt

3 pairs of Polk R150's = $150 plus shipping at frys.com


or 2 pairs of Polk r150's for Fry's =$100

plus 1 Polk CSi25 center = $50
http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...&id=POLCSI25BK 


And whatever subwoofer you can find for $150.
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/467...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


Fry's usually has the sub in store if you have one in your area. Vanns.com also carries the Velodyne sub with free shipping. Might cost about $20 more though.


Or if you want a simple one store solution.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=ATMICRA6


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12150732
> 
> 
> 3 pairs of Polk R150's = $150 plus shipping at frys.com
> 
> 
> or 2 pairs of Polk r150's for Fry's =$100
> 
> plus 1 Polk CSi25 center = $50
> http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...&id=POLCSI25BK
> 
> 
> And whatever subwoofer you can find for $150.
> http://shop2.outpost.com/product/467...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> 
> Fry's usually has the sub in store if you have one in your area. Vanns.com also carries the Velodyne sub with free shipping. Might cost about $20 more though.
> 
> 
> Or if you want a simple one store solution.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=ATMICRA6



afrogt: I'm assuming this response was for my question about a good sounding pair of speakers?...if so, thank you very much for your response. I have a few questions if you don't mind.


1. I see a lot of talk about Polk in this thread...I'm assuming because they make good speakers?


2. What about the Polk RM6750 package? How would they compare to the Polk R150's + CSi25 setup? Buying the individual Polk's worries me that I won't like the type of sub that I can buy for under $200...seems that most of the good ones are a lot more expensive.


3. I haven't heard much about Athena. Are they good quality speakers?


4. I currently have an Onkyo HT-SP800 and I'm taking it back to CC to get something that can handle HD audio through HDMI (hence the Onkyo 605 or 705). How do these speaker packages that you quoted above compare to those that come with the HT-SP800?


5. Is the Onkyo 705 worth the extra $$$ compared to the 605? The extra HDMI port isn't that important to me, but I like the THX Certification. Is THX that important and what will it do for me?


Thanks in advance for your help with this.


----------



## Florida_Gator

I have found the R150s to be fantastic for rear/surrounds, but I'd go with something bigger up front. The R300s, or even better, R50s, can be had on sale via Fry's pretty often, and they're worth waiting for those sales ($50 each for R300s, $70 each for R50s). Point being they're worth the price difference (esp. the R50s). The R50s are arguably the best bang-for-buck for fronts out there.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12151785
> 
> 
> afrogt: I'm assuming this response was for my question about a good sounding pair of speakers?...if so, thank you very much for your response. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
> 
> 
> 1. I see a lot of talk about Polk in this thread...I'm assuming because they make good speakers?
> 
> 
> 2. What about the Polk RM6750 package? How would they compare to the Polk R150's + CSi25 setup? Buying the individual Polk's worries me that I won't like the type of sub that I can buy for under $200...seems that most of the good ones are a lot more expensive.
> 
> 
> 3. I haven't heard much about Athena. Are they good quality speakers?
> 
> 
> 4. I currently have an Onkyo HT-SP800 and I'm taking it back to CC to get something that can handle HD audio through HDMI (hence the Onkyo 605 or 705). How do these speaker packages that you quoted above compare to those that come with the HT-SP800?
> 
> 
> 5. Is the Onkyo 705 worth the extra $$$ compared to the 605? The extra HDMI port isn't that important to me, but I like the THX Certification. Is THX that important and what will it do for me?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help with this.



I had planned on getting the Polk RM6750 set. It's a nice (small) set at a decent price. Then I auditioned some "full size" speakers, and knew that was the way I wanted to go. The sound of a R50/CSR/R150 set (with my old 8" Polk sub) was much fuller than the RM6750 (and many other sat sets). All for about the same price, if you buy them on sale.


Regarding receivers, I too was leaning towards the 605, until I realized I really didn't need the HDMI processing -- just pass-through (though I'm not even using that, yet). So I went with the Onkyo 505, and am very happy with it ($250).


With the larger R50s up front, my older (10 yrs) Polk 8" sub worked out great -- with any sat system, you'll need a newer, larger sub.


Go to some stores and compare some sat sets with some full size combos, and you'll see what I mean. IMO, the only reason to go with a sat set is to save space, and to get close to the same sound, you'll have to spend more on a sat set than the full-size combos (again, assuming you buy the R-series on sale).


Don't get me wrong -- there are certainly better speakers out there than the Polk R-series (Polk's RTi series, are a bit "tighter"), but bang-for-buck, and compared to similarly-priced sat sets, they're great.


Here's my modest setup, which is fantastic for our smallish (14'x15') open-ended room:


Receiver: Onkyo 505 ($250)

Sub: Polk 8" powered sub (had this already) (I would recommend a 10" if you don't have one)

Fronts: Polk R50s ($70/each - Fry's online)

Center: Polk CSR ($100 - Crutchfield)

Surrounds: Polk R150s ($50/pair! - Fry's online)


The above is much MUCH better than every HTiB system I tried, cheaper than most, and better than most sat systems I tried.


Good luck!


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12152042
> 
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo 505 ($250)
> 
> Sub: Polk 8" powered sub (had this already) (I would recommend a 10" if you don't have one)
> 
> Fronts: Polk R50s ($70/each - Fry's online)
> 
> Center: Polk CSR ($100 - Crutchfield)
> 
> Surrounds: Polk R150s ($50/pair! - Fry's online)
> 
> 
> The above is much MUCH better than every HTiB system I tried, cheaper than most, and better than most sat systems I tried.
> 
> 
> Good luck!



I like the idea about the Polk R50's and they're a good price at Fry's. But the shipping for the 2 R150's, 2 R50's and a 10'' sub costs over $110!..WOW!


They say the R50's are cherry...but the picture shows black...what gives? The cherry finish will make my wife happy, as that's the color of our entertainment stands. Unfortunately, the setup that you describe way puts me over my $300-$400 budget. =( I need at least the 605 Receiver because my components are HDMI and my TV only has a single HDMI input. I like the 705 for the extra power and THX, but not sure if the THX is worth it. I found a good price on the 705 but it's not from an authorized reseller...makes me nervous not having a warranty...


Any thoughts on the Athena Micra 6 anyone?


Also, anyone with experience in Onkyo receivers can answer my previous question about the 605 vs. 705?


Thanks again.


----------



## Florida_Gator

Don't let $50 or so keep you from getting what you want! This stuff will last quite some time, so a $50-$100 delta shouldn't stop you.


----------



## carlosnindy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12152355
> 
> 
> I like the idea about the Polk R50's and they're a good price at Fry's. But the shipping for the 2 R150's, 2 R50's and a 10'' sub costs over $110!..WOW!
> 
> 
> They say the R50's are cherry...but the picture shows black...what gives? The cherry finish will make my wife happy, as that's the color of our entertainment stands. Unfortunately, the setup that you describe way puts me over my $300-$400 budget. =( I need at least the 605 Receiver because my components are HDMI and my TV only has a single HDMI input. I like the 705 for the extra power and THX, but not sure if the THX is worth it. I found a good price on the 705 but it's not from an authorized reseller...makes me nervous not having a warranty...
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on the Athena Micra 6 anyone?
> 
> 
> Also, anyone with experience in Onkyo receivers can answer my previous question about the 605 vs. 705?
> 
> 
> Thanks again.



You can get a refurb 605 at accesories4less for $350 right now. That would be all you need. The power will be fine and the extra money on the speakers would be better spent than on going up to the 705.


----------



## afrogt

605 vs 705. They'll sound the same, the 705 will have more features/inputs and a little more power. But if you're on a budget, save the $200+ and spend it on speakers. Plus you really do want to buy from an authorized dealer.


Athena Micras are nice in a small room or if you have little space for speakers. But like Gator said, full bookshelves will sound better, especially if you plan to play music. You should definitely do a comparison of bookshelves vs satellites. I started off with Energy satellites and while nice, they can't compare to a bookshelf speaker.'


Velodyne VX-10 is better than the Polk 10" sub. Polk subs don't get real good until you spend way more money. And then there are other competitors in the upper price range.


The Onkyo 605 is $399 at shoponkyo.com right now. Sign up for Club Onkyo which is free and the price goes down to $339 shipped. Includes 1 year warranty and obviously its an authorized dealer. You can get it in black or silver for the same price. Accessories4less is a good site too but they charge for shipping. http://shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?prod...il=1&ext_war=1


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12152549
> 
> 
> Don't let $50 or so keep you from getting what you want! This stuff will last quite some time, so a $50-$100 delta shouldn't stop you.



Please excuse my ignorance (or stupidity...or both =), but what do you mean by "delta"?


I showed my wife a picture of the Cherry R50's...she loves them!!...so I think I'll get those for sure. And the R150's are a steal at that price, so I think they'll be included as well.


A couple more questions:


1. Is there another center (possibly a little cheaper) that I could buy that would worth with the R50's?


2. Would waiting a month to buy a decent sub be okay as long as I had everything else? I know I won't have the heart-pounding bass, but will I still get a good sound out of this setup without the sub?


I'm beginning to think that with the extra $200 or $300 getting the 605 vs. the 705 will allow me to get better speakers (and sub) that will make my setup sound better in the long run versus the THX & extra power that the 705 will give me. Your thoughts?


----------



## afrogt

You can get away without a sub for a while. Since you're ordering floorstanding speakers that will help.


If you get the 605 for $339 from the site I posted it will help save too.


Cheapest Polk center for your system will be the CSi25. It has dual 5.25" drivers like the CS1 and CSR. $49.
http://www.electronics-expo.com/make.../CSi25/42.html


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12152607
> 
> 
> The Onkyo 605 is $399 at shoponkyo.com right now. Sign up for Club Onkyo which is free and the price goes down to $339 shipped. Includes 1 year warranty and obviously its an authorized dealer. You can get it in black or silver for the same price.



Shoponkyo states that on refurbished equipment that "* Refurbished products do not include batteries, cables or labels."...does that mean that the stickers on the front that state the features "DTS-HD, Dolby", etc are missing? Does that also mean that it's missing the labels that state what the buttons on the receiver do?...i.e. "Channel", "Input", etc...?


----------



## afrogt

There are no cables that come with the receiver anyway. The stickers and input labels will definitely be on the front. And most likely you'll get the batteries too. It'll look just like the receiver you would buy in the store.


The only thing that might be missing would be batteries, which is no big deal.


Sometimes if you buy a complete HTIB system from shoponkyo, you might not get the speaker wire, batteries or basic audio cable. But based on all the replies I've seen on this forum they've been included too. Onkyo is just covering themselves in case they are missing.


Only a standalone receiver like the 605 you won't get those things anyway. Its a great deal.


----------



## vinipux77

Will, going to a higher priced receiver leaves too little for speakers in your budget, as you are likely to hear the $100 paid towards better speakers vs. the receiver features you don't actually need. Anything between 505 to 705 will power the speakers you are looking at fine - a 10-15W difference in power is VERY hard to hear (read, "impossible") at that wattage, however stronger power supply of each consecutive model is a plus. THX of 705 is not worth it, IMHO.


I understand, even 505 will switch HDMIinputs and pass them to your TV, but 505 will not accept audio over HDMI for processing, so you'll need a separate digital audio connection. Big plus of 605 is video upconversion and HDMI audio processing; 705 also gives you pre-outs for all channels should you decide to go to separate amplification in the future.


R50 at Fry's ARE cherry if they say so. The finish is surprisingly nice - my uncle is using them as his mains w/o a center and a sub even.


Please, someone correct me about Onkyo 505 if something that I said was wrong.


----------



## will_19_

Thanks everyone for your help with this...having you here sure makes things easier for a noob trying to piece something together for the first time.


If it wouldn't be too much to ask, I have just a few remaining questions.


1. Is the CSR better than the CSi25?...in what ways? I just saw the CSR at cruthfield for $99!


2. Is mounting the Center vertically really better than horizontally?


3. The Onkyo 605 states 8ohm but I saw somewhere that the Polk Center was 6ohm...isn't that going to cause a problem?


----------



## afrogt

I think the CSi25 and CSR are just cosmetic differences.


If you really want to mount your center vertically, just buy another pair for R150's and use one as the center. You'll save $50 over the CSR


6 ohm and 8ohm, the Onkyo will handle it fine.


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12153424
> 
> 
> If you really want to mount your center vertically, just buy another pair for R150's and use one as the center. You'll save $50 over the CSR
> 
> 
> 6 ohm and 8ohm, the Onkyo will handle it fine.



Just when I thought I was done asking questions...I owe you all big-time!


Will I get the same sound out of using a single R150 as a center? If so, then I could use the other R150 as a rear-surround to get 6.1...since I'm pretty sure the 605 will matrix a 5.1 into 6.1.


Then again, I don't want to sacrifice anything to save $50 on a center...


I thought you weren't supposed to mix ohm's...but then again, I'm a noob.


----------



## evan_s

Most real center channel speakers like the CSR or CSi25 are designed to be horizontal. Thats why they have a tweeter in the center and a mid range on either side. It ends up balancing out well. Mounting it vertically would probably cause problems. The Tweeter in the center of the speaker would probably end up fairly low compared to your other speakers and ear level so to speak. Since the High frequency sound typically is more directional and doesn't disperse as well this would typically cause a perceived loss in the high frequency sound.


Using a single r150 as a center should be fine altho for most people the profile of your typical bookshelf speaker makes it difficult to use as a center in the proper position. The main thing with the center and fronts is you want them to be voice coil matched so they sound the same when something moves from one speaker to the next. Obviously the exact same model of speakers should match just fine.


As far as mixing ohms the main thing your likely to see from that is the volume between the different speakers might not match quite right but modern receivers let you turn each speaker up and down separately so you can compensate for it. Theoretically a lower resistance speaker will allow more current to flow working the amp harder which can cause problems if it allows too much current and the receiver distorts or overheats but it shouldn't be a problem with a single center speaker at a reasonable volume level.


----------



## will_19_

So then why would Polk say the CSR is voice matched with the R50 and then release them at different ohms?


If I stay with the entire Polk speakers (R50, R150 & CSR (or CSi25)) will they all be voice/timbre matched to work with eachother?


I certainly don't want to ruin my Onkyo 605 by mixing ohms.


----------



## will_19_

One last thing, I promise...since I just ordered the R50's from Frys (individual orders saved me $23 in shipping!!).


This setup will deffinately be better than the setup that comes with the Onkyo HT-SP908 HTiB...right?


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12152663
> 
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance (or stupidity...or both =), but what do you mean by "delta"?
> 
> 
> I showed my wife a picture of the Cherry R50's...she loves them!!...so I think I'll get those for sure. And the R150's are a steal at that price, so I think they'll be included as well.
> 
> 
> A couple more questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Is there another center (possibly a little cheaper) that I could buy that would worth with the R50's?
> 
> 
> 2. Would waiting a month to buy a decent sub be okay as long as I had everything else? I know I won't have the heart-pounding bass, but will I still get a good sound out of this setup without the sub?
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to think that with the extra $200 or $300 getting the 605 vs. the 705 will allow me to get better speakers (and sub) that will make my setup sound better in the long run versus the THX & extra power that the 705 will give me. Your thoughts?



By "delta" I mean the "difference" (or more specifically, the _change_ in price between your options).


The cherry R50s look very nice. They're not real cherry of course, but they DON'T look like paper-covered; they even feel like real, solid wood.


For the center, I'd recommend the CSR. As I've said before, the combination of the R50s and the CSR sounds like one big, seamless speaker up front -- no strange voice/sound-pattern shifts when a voice or sound is panned across the front sound stage. They're $100 at Crutchfield.


Regarding waiting on the sub -- yes, you can do that with the R50s as mains. Just set them as "large" on the receiver, so that they are sent lower frequencies. They each have dual 6.5" drivers, and can handle lower freq's well. Once you get a sub, set them to "small", and set the crossover frequency (in the receiver's bass management setup) to 60 or 80 hz (I use 60, and it sounds great).


----------



## evan_s

Haven't heard the Onkyo or the Polks but I expect it would be a lot better.


The Ohm rating doesn't directly effect the timber match. I'd guess the center is 6 Ohm because it uses 2 midrange drivers instead of 1.


If you stick with all those you should be well matched yes.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12153660
> 
> 
> Just when I thought I was done asking questions...I owe you all big-time!
> 
> 
> Will I get the same sound out of using a single R150 as a center? If so, then I could use the other R150 as a rear-surround to get 6.1...since I'm pretty sure the 605 will matrix a 5.1 into 6.1.
> 
> 
> Then again, I don't want to sacrifice anything to save $50 on a center...
> 
> 
> I thought you weren't supposed to mix ohm's...but then again, I'm a noob.



I would strongly recommend the CSR (or similar) for the center, rather than a single R150. The CSR has dual drivers, while the R150 has a single. You want the center channel speaker to be as full as possible, since it's where most of the sound from movies comes from. The CSR would be my minimum recommendation (and again, it matches the R50s perfectly). Don't worry about the ohm factor -- it's a non issue. You can (and probably will) adjust the center up or down to your preference anyway. I have mine up a tad higher, relative to the R50s.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12154091
> 
> 
> One last thing, I promise...since I just ordered the R50's from Frys (individual orders saved me $23 in shipping!!).
> 
> 
> This setup will deffinately be better than the setup that comes with the Onkyo HT-SP908 HTiB...right?



I've never tested that system. What I can tell you though, is that my system (R50s, CSR, R150s, Polk 8" sub, Onkyo 505) sounds better than the HTiB systems I did test, including the Onkyo 800, 600, and several others from various makes (including some "high-end" sets that bundled receivers with speakers). Of course if you spend enough, you can "beat" my "budget" setup, but you have to spend AT LEAST twice as much, that's what I found, anyway.


Point being, for similar money as a "good" HTiB (Onkyo 800 or above), I put together a much better system. If you set it up right, it will most definitely sound better than all but the most expensive HTiB systems.


Having said all that, I use my setup for movies (and HDTV) 90% of the time. If this was for 90% music AND 10% TV, I would probably upgrade the mains.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12152862
> 
> 
> Shoponkyo states that on refurbished equipment that "* Refurbished products do not include batteries, cables or labels."...does that mean that the stickers on the front that state the features "DTS-HD, Dolby", etc are missing? Does that also mean that it's missing the labels that state what the buttons on the receiver do?...i.e. "Channel", "Input", etc...?




If you're worried about buying refurbished. Amazon has it new for $407 shipped and Tiger Direct $399 shipped.


----------



## Karrmer

ecost.com claims they did ship overnight and I'll have the receiver and everything ready to set up today.


If that actually happens I'll give them props for fixing their mess and actually use them again.


----------



## will_19_

Thanks everyone for your help.


Although I'll be spending a bit more than just getting the HTP-SP908 HTiB, I think I'll be happier with this setup. I sure hope so.


Now, the only problem is that my wife will likely complain if the front R50's are cherry finish and the center and surround are black. I found a CSi3 Center for $150...but what would be a step-up from the R150's as far as surround goes that I could get in the cherry finish as well?


I'm not worried about the refurbished Onkyo 605. I can get a 2 year extended warranty (giving me 3 all together) for only $40 from shoponkyo.com...so all-in-all it's only $379 shipped.


----------



## evan_s

The RTi series has cherry finished bookshelf speakers but they step up a bit in price from the r150's. Since they are surrounds I'd probably try to talk her into just not worrying about it but thats me =0


----------



## ruthdog23

I will be purchasing a HDTV (1080P) sometime in the next month or so. As such, I would like to purchase a surround sound system. I need a receiver with at least 3 HDMI ports, as I will be connecting the HD cable box, XBOX 360 and either a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player to it.


Based on the way the room is set up, I believe I can only use a 5.1 system without the old lady getting upset that there are speakers everywhere. I would like to know what your suggestions are for a receiver and speakers. I would prefer that the rear speakers be small enough put on a stand to get it above ear level.


I am currently looking at the Onkyo 805, is this overkill for what I want? I want a good sounding surround sound system. Please help me out.


Oh, my budget for the receiver and speakers is approximately $1,000 - 1,200.


Thanks!!


----------



## afrogt

Onkyo 805 might be overkill if you want 5 speakers too for $1000-$1200. The 805 is $800 shipped which leaves you only $400 for 5 speakers. Do you need a subwoofer also?


The Onkyo 705 has 3 HDMI inputs and cost about $610 shipped. This would probably be a better balance for your price range.


----------



## skeetball

Ok here it is.

My old Sony HTIB is toast. ! want to get a whole new system. (speakers, woofer, receiver)

I have a Samsung 65 dlp 1 year old. ps3. old dvd player, i-phone and i-pod.

I am looking to spend about $1000.

I have been looking at the Onkyo 605 receiver.

Should I go with th ONKYO 908 HTIB which includes the 605 or should I get the Onkyo 605 and mix and match?

Or is there something else better for me?


Thanks


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skeetball* /forum/post/12156186
> 
> 
> Ok here it is.
> 
> My old Sony HTIB is toast. ! want to get a whole new system. (speakers, woofer, receiver)
> 
> I have a Samsung 65 dlp 1 year old. ps3. old dvd player, i-phone and i-pod.
> 
> I am looking to spend about $1000.
> 
> I have been looking at the Onkyo 605 receiver.
> 
> Should I go with th ONKYO 908 HTIB which includes the 605 or should I get the Onkyo 605 and mix and match?
> 
> Or is there something else better for me?
> 
> 
> Thanks



The 908 would be a slightly cheaper solution in the end and does include the 605 receiver, you'll be taking a hit in performance with the speakers and subwoofer included as in most if not all HTIB packages.


You can get the 605 matched with a good budget sub like the X-Sub, Bic H-100 or even Elemental designs, the Polk or Athena speakers and still be within your budget with a much better performing system.


----------



## afrogt

If you want an all in one solution go with the Onkyo 908 system. Most people are getting it for $750 I believe.


If you really are willing to spend $1000, here are a couple of options.


Onkyo 605 - $400 shipped

Velodyne VX-10 sub - $170 shipped.


That leave your $430 for 7 speakers.


3 pairs of Athena B1.2 - $100/pr = $300

1 Athena C1.2 center - $100 = $100

Total $400 plus shipping.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ATASB1%2E2 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASC1%2E2 



or


3 pairs of Mission M70S bookshelves - $70/pr = $210

1 Mission M7c1i center speaker - $100 = $100

Total $310 plus shipping.
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2191 
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2227


----------



## afrogt

Also 3 pairs of Polk R150 are $50/pr at Frys.com

Then get a matching Polk center for $100-125.


That's $250-$275 plus shipping.


I'd take the Missions and Athenas over the Polks myself though.


----------



## pdadi

For $1000 this is what got.


Onkyo 504 - $150


2x Polk rti8- $400

2x polk rti4 +stands - $250

Bic H100 - $230


Total ~$1030


I am using a phantom center and it works very well for me.


----------



## Florida_Gator

pdadi,


Great price on the Polk Rti8's -- $400 for the pair? Where'd you find that?


----------



## pdadi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12158597
> 
> 
> pdadi,
> 
> 
> Great price on the Polk Rti8's -- $400 for the pair? Where'd you find that?



Fry's retail stores. They go on sale from time to time due new Rtia's are going to replace them


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12156749
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take the Missions and Athenas over the Polks myself though.



Sure...now you tell me after I just bought the Polk R50's!!










...but I've read a lot of good reviews on the Polk's. But still, now I'm second-guessing my decision.


----------



## evan_s

The polks are still very good speakers especially for the price fry's seems to have them on sale for regularly. Also speaker preference is just that a preference. Once you get it all set up and calibrated spend some time listening to it and decide if you like it or not. Thats all that is important.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12159515
> 
> 
> Sure...now you tell me after I just bought the Polk R50's!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but I've read a lot of good reviews on the Polk's. But still, now I'm second-guessing my decision.



Nothing wrong with the R50's especially for that price. I'm sure you'll be very happy. Besides I was comparing the R150's bookshelves to the Athena and Mission bookshelf speakers, not the R50.


You did very well. Enjoy!


----------



## will_19_

I read somewhere that the R150's are rear-firing(??) so I shouldn't mount them on the wall. Is that true? If so, what rears could I get that I could wall-mount? I have the mounts that swivel up/down/sideways and they actually make the speaker come about 3 or 4 inches off the wall.


What about just using a couple more R50's for the rears?


----------



## newY_lcd

Any body know the ohm and power specifications for Pok R150? THANKS!!


----------



## hpnas

Can someone recommend at least 30" speaker stands for my R150's? I'd like them to be a little above ear level while seated so they should be at least 30"


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newY_lcd* /forum/post/12161183
> 
> 
> Any body know the ohm and power specifications for Pok R150? THANKS!!


 http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/R150/ 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12160515
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that the R150's are rear-firing(??) so I shouldn't mount them on the wall. ... what rears could I get that I could wall-mount? I have the mounts that swivel up/down/sideways and they actually make the speaker come about 3 or 4 inches off the wall.
> 
> 
> What about just using a couple more R50's for the rears?



R150 like many speakers have a rear bass port, but you are not pushing these full bandwidth in HT, so the amount of bass "noise" when they are wall-mounted will not be that great. The 3 or 4 inches off the wall on mounts will help, too.

You can use another pair of R50's for rears, but this will be hugely an overkill, unless you plan on listening to multi-channel music a lot.


V.


----------



## Justmtnb44

Hey guys, first time poster here. I've spent the last few days reading through this whole thread, and wow that was a lot of information.


I've been wanting to get a HT system for a while, and was originally looking at the HTIB Onkyos (790, 800, 990THX). After reading through this thread I decided it is worth the extra cash to just put together my own system. I was looking to spend under or around $800. I have a Sharp 37" 1080p TV, and the living room in my apartment is about 14x16 with lots of openings (two stairways, dining room, kitchen).


Here is what I am thinking for speakers:

Bic H-100 sub ($240 shipped)

Polk R50 Fronts (~$165 shipped)

Polk CSR Center (~$107 shipped)

Polk R150 Rears (~$60 shipped)

Total: $572


I am still undecided on a receiver. I was thinking maybe the Onkyo 505 refurb, which is $200 on shoponkyo. I was looking at Harman kardon on ebay, but they don't seem to be as good of deals, and much less power (many are only 50W /ch). My only sources for now are TV, upconverting DVD player, and a computer, so I don't need a ton of inputs. I do need a 5.1/7.1 analog input though for my computer. Any other receiver suggestions?


Total system cost with the Onkyo 505 and cables is around $850. Does this seem like a good setup and good deal? I should also note that I don't really have any way to listen to different speakers, and have never owned good speakers before. I stopped by CircuitCity/BestBuy the other day but their selections were limited. I do know that my parents have a Sony HTIB with small satellite speakers and it sucks pretty bad, so I'm thinking any good speakers should be a large improvement from that. Thanks in advance for the advice.


----------



## Florida_Gator

Justmtnb44,


That's almost exactly my system (I have a Polk sub), and I'm very happy with it. Shop around -- you can find the 505 brand new for between $220 and $250. When I went looking for one, I decided to go new since the price between new and refurb for the 505 was so close (when I was looking).


This system will outperform 90% of the HTiB systems out there. Plus it will put you in a great position to upgrade to 7.1 later. You can either get another set of R150s for rear surrounds (inexpensive upgrade), or shift the R50s to the sides, the R150s to the rear, and upgrade the mains and/or center.


If your goal is to put something together that will outperform most boxed satellite speaker sets, and/or HTiB sets, for similar money, this will do it easily. If you're going to listen to a lot of music through this system (for me it's 90%/10% HT/music), then you might want to get better mains, such as the Polk Rti8s or similar. I would rate the R50s as "good" for music (a 3 out of 5?), and "great" for HT mains (a 4 out of 5?)... but again, at this price-point, still much better than the vast majority of HTiB systems (which is the point of this thread, and this exercise ).


Good luck!


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12161508
> 
> 
> I am still undecided on a receiver. I was thinking maybe the Onkyo 505 refurb, which is $200 on shoponkyo. I was looking at Harman kardon on ebay, but they don't seem to be as good of deals, and much less power (many are only 50W /ch). My only sources for now are TV, upconverting DVD player, and a computer, so I don't need a ton of inputs. I do need a 5.1/7.1 analog input though for my computer. Any other receiver suggestions?.



Don't be fooled by the apparent difference in power between the HK's and say the onkyo's. The HK's can easily match a Onkyo they are just more conservatively or honestly rated depending on who you ask. If you compare the HK340 to the onkyo 505 it actually has a higher peak current even tho it lists 20 watts per channel lower value.


I picked up a 340 on ebay for less than the Onkyo refurb is listed at on shop onkyo and it has some nice features that the Onkyo doesn't have. The Hk has 2 zone operation with a remote included for the second zone, conversion between formats, preamp outs for all channels and OSD if you want it. It doesn't have the hdmi pass through on the other hand.


Personally I've worked with HK's before and like the way they look and sound so I went that way but I don't think you can go wrong with either one.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12161508
> 
> 
> I am still undecided on a receiver. I was thinking maybe the Onkyo 505 refurb, which is $200 on shoponkyo. I was looking at Harman kardon on ebay, but they don't seem to be as good of deals, and much less power (many are only 50W /ch).



Onkyo 505 (or older 50x) is a fine entry level "20-lb" receiver. Don't discount HK AVRs for "only 50W/ch" power, as you need to read these very carefully.

Onkyo rates receivers usually at 2-ch driven, but HK uses 5 or 7 channel method. Neither is more or less accurate, just different, but I will take a 50W/ch HK over 75W/ch Onkyo any day.

I own several Denon, HK, and Onkyo pieces, but my first one was Onkyo 502. I don't regret buying it for 1 sec, but it's the only one not connected anywhere in my home at the moment.


V.


----------



## BACONlover




> Quote:
> Can someone recommend at least 30" speaker stands for my R150's? I'd like them to be a little above ear level while seated so they should be at least 30"



check these out...

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...1BF31B&tp=1386


----------



## srjune1101

Any one out here have this problem with Onkyo 505 ?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935491


----------



## Justmtnb44

Thanks for the replies everyone.


Florida_Gator, I read all of your posts on the Polk setup and that's one of the reasons I decided on them. I will use this system for probably 75% HT and 25% music, and I'm sure they will be far better than any HTIB anyway. Anything else starts to get outside of my budget.


evan_s and vinipux77, I was waiting for someone to say that about the HK receivers. I am currently watching a 240 on eBay and will see what that is going to sell for to see if it stays within my budget. The 240 seems to be the same as the newer 247 minus the HDMI inputs, is this correct?


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12162784
> 
> 
> evan_s and vinipux77, I was waiting for someone to say that about the HK receivers. I am currently watching a 240 on eBay and will see what that is going to sell for to see if it stays within my budget. The 240 seems to be the same as the newer 247 minus the HDMI inputs, is this correct?



Check out 'Bay Item numbers 150178582158, 150177193688, 150174116363, 150178286485, 150178249666, 150175849501, etc.. for recently sold AVR 235, 240, and 335's.


Each year they add bells and whistles to their products, so just check to make sure the model you are getting has the features you want - I think the models changed x30-x35-x40-x45-x47, but not all series had all those iterations (plus an odd 146 that went alongside 147, but you are not looking at their lowest model anyway). All models number 230 and over have pre-outs for all channels, so you could add extra amplification one day.


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12162784
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> 
> Florida_Gator, I read all of your posts on the Polk setup and that's one of the reasons I decided on them. I will use this system for probably 75% HT and 25% music, and I'm sure they will be far better than any HTIB anyway. Anything else starts to get outside of my budget.
> 
> 
> evan_s and vinipux77, I was waiting for someone to say that about the HK receivers. I am currently watching a 240 on eBay and will see what that is going to sell for to see if it stays within my budget. The 240 seems to be the same as the newer 247 minus the HDMI inputs, is this correct?



Yeah the only major difference I saw between the 240/340 and the 247/347 was the hdmi inputs. I'd watch the 340's too since they didn't seem to sell for much more or didn't at least when I was looking at them and you do get a few more features and a bit better power.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srjune1101* /forum/post/12162445
> 
> 
> Any one out here have this problem with Onkyo 505 ?
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935491



I've had my Onkyo 505 for a few months now... no problems.


----------



## Justmtnb44

Ok, I'm watching both the HK 240 and 340 receivers on eBay, and it looks like they are similar in price so I'm gonna go for the 340. It seems to have the same functionality as the Onkyo 505 minus the HDMI, but I don't need that since my TV has 2 HDMI inputs already. The warranty on the HK receivers is two years right? The links on the eBay page seem to be for speakers, not receivers.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12163728
> 
> 
> I'm gonna go for the 340. It seems to have the same functionality as the Onkyo 505 minus the HDMI, but I don't need that since my TV has 2 HDMI inputs already. The warranty on the HK receivers is two years right?



HK AVR 340 gives you QUITE MORE than Onkyo 505 for a small penalty of not having HDMI. It is more like a 704 or 703 (I can't remember when HDMI came out on them). The warranty on refurbished receivers bought from HK directly (this is important!) is the same as on new ones - 2 years.


----------



## Karrmer

So I got everything and I've been setting it up...


I have the Onkyo 604 and I was wondering - how do you set the speaker sizes to large? I've been searching and can't find it.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12164793
> 
> 
> So I got everything and I've been setting it up...
> 
> 
> I have the Onkyo 604 and I was wondering - how do you set the speaker sizes to large? I've been searching and can't find it.



I've owned the 604, Go into the speaker setup menu, I think it's listed as FULL instead of Large, they did that just to confuse us lol.


----------



## newY_lcd

Is Anthena B1.2 bookshelf speaker wall-mountable? I do not like floor standing type speakers.


----------



## Justmtnb44

Damn, I just got auction sniped at the last second for a HK 340. Oh well, there is another one ending tomorrow night.


Which seller is everyone using to get their BIC H-100? Is one better than the other? Price should be about the same so does it really matter? How is this sub for music, I'll probably only use my system for music about 25% of the time so having the most "musical" sub isn't a top priority, but I'm just curious as to everyone's thoughts on it?


I ordered my Polk speakers tonight as well, so now I just need to get the sub and receiver and I'll be good to go.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newY_lcd* /forum/post/12166129
> 
> 
> Is Anthena B1.2 bookshelf speaker wall-mountable? I do not like floor standing type speakers.



No they aren't wall mountable, they are rear ported so you don't want them up against the wall. You could build a shelf and hang it on the wall then place the B1.2 on that, just be sure it's deep enough to give at least 3 - 4" between the speaker and the wall in the rear. Stands seem like a much simpler and more cost effective solution. You can get them that are adjustable as well as fixed height.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12166451
> 
> 
> Damn, I just got auction sniped at the last second for a HK 340. Oh well, there is another one ending tomorrow night.
> 
> 
> Which seller is everyone using to get their BIC H-100? Is one better than the other? Price should be about the same so does it really matter? How is this sub for music, I'll probably only use my system for music about 25% of the time so having the most "musical" sub isn't a top priority, but I'm just curious as to everyone's thoughts on it?
> 
> 
> I ordered my Polk speakers tonight as well, so now I just need to get the sub and receiver and I'll be good to go.



The H-100 and AV123 Xsub are the best choices at $200. The x sub is smaller with a smaller driver most who've compared them say it's a little tighter slightly better for music but a minimal difference. The H-100 has a larger driver which will fill the room easier and give you a little lower extension in the frequency range which will be better for HT, unless it's 100% music use I'd go for the Bic. As far as which seller, their are 2 on ebay which are authorized, I don't think it matters just pick the one and make an offer.


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12166451
> 
> 
> Damn, I just got auction sniped at the last second for a HK 340. Oh well, there is another one ending tomorrow night.



Yeah that will happen. Just don't get impatient and caught up in bidding and you should pick one up for a good deal.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evan_s* /forum/post/12166708
> 
> 
> Yeah that will happen. Just don't get impatient and caught up in bidding and you should pick one up for a good deal.



Exactly...pick a price in the range you're prepared to pay, watch a few AVRs, if it climbs close to your limit, you'll probably have to pass, but it's important to hold, cuz somethings coming down the pike that will fit. When you see one, don't bid, snipe. If you bid during the last minute, you'll have a very good chance of winning at a great price. Just remember to keep refreshing the screen







.


----------



## suresh22l

I am a newbie, could anyone suggest me a good HTiB system with HDMI inputs, with/without DVD palyer, wireless rear speakers preferred. My budget is upto 800$. 5.1 - 7.1 doesn't matter.


Currently, I own a Sony Bravia 32V300A and was looking for a HTiB. I will be taking this system from US to India. I am concerned about the voltage(220V) over there. Will it be fine if I use a voltage convertor interface.


I was also looking at few models like Sony DAV-HDX500 where rear speakers are wired :-( , Onkyo HT-SR800 as it had received good rating but had no dvd player, no upscaling of video signal, no audio conversion to HDMI. Will these drawbacks matter a lot incase of Onkyo system.


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I hope my questions are clear if not please let me know.


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *suresh22l* /forum/post/12167051
> 
> 
> I am a newbie, could anyone suggest me a good HTiB system with HDMI inputs, with/without DVD palyer, wireless rear speakers preferred. My budget is upto 800$. 5.1 - 7.1 doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> Currently, I own a Sony Bravia 32V300A and was looking for a HTiB. I will be taking this system from US to India. I am concerned about the voltage(220V) over there. Will it be fine if I use a voltage convertor interface.
> 
> 
> I was also looking at few models like Sony DAV-HDX500 where rear speakers are wired :-( , Onkyo HT-SR800 as it had received good rating but had no dvd player, no upscaling of video signal, no audio conversion to HDMI. Will these drawbacks matter a lot incase of Onkyo system.
> 
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I hope my questions are clear if not please let me know.



You've posted this question in a thread designed to give people ALTERNATIVES for purchasing an HTiB. Most of what you'll get here are suggestions on how you can piece one together for better sound for near or close to your budget amount.


However, I think the HT-SP908 will give you what you're looking for. It comes with the 605 receiver which has HDMI upscaling, audio over HDMI and it comes with a DVD player. Current prices are right around what you have, less shipping. Go to Onkyo's website and find the list of authorized internet sellers and shop around.


Good luck...and I'm sorry, I don't know about the power question you asked.


----------



## newY_lcd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12166499
> 
> 
> No they aren't wall mountable, they are rear ported so you don't want them up against the wall. You could build a shelf and hang it on the wall then place the B1.2 on that, just be sure it's deep enough to give at least 3 - 4" between the speaker and the wall in the rear. Stands seem like a much simpler and more cost effective solution. You can get them that are adjustable as well as fixed height.



Thanks. So I will give up Anthena. Is Polk R150 Bookshelf speaker wall mountable?


----------



## mfetzner

I've seen several separet comments on these options, so let's try to compile it for those who want to save some time from reading 100+ pages










What's your preference order here?


KEF KHT 2005.2

Athena Micra 6

JBL CS480

HK HKHT-18

Boston Ac. Midnight


what else would you include? thanks for the input


----------



## mfetzner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12150732
> 
> 
> 3 pairs of Polk R150's = $150 plus shipping at frys.com
> 
> 
> or 2 pairs of Polk r150's for Fry's =$100
> 
> plus 1 Polk CSi25 center = $50
> http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...&id=POLCSI25BK
> 
> 
> And whatever subwoofer you can find for $150.
> http://shop2.outpost.com/product/467...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> 
> Fry's usually has the sub in store if you have one in your area. Vanns.com also carries the Velodyne sub with free shipping. Might cost about $20 more though.
> 
> 
> Or if you want a simple one store solution.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=ATMICRA6



Do you think this would be better than a HTiB like the Athena Micra and the KEF 2005.2?


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12167037
> 
> 
> Exactly...pick a price in the range you're prepared to pay, watch a few AVRs, if it climbs close to your limit, you'll probably have to pass, but it's important to hold, cuz somethings coming down the pike that will fit. When you see one, don't bid, snipe. If you bid during the last minute, you'll have a very good chance of winning at a great price. Just remember to keep refreshing the screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yeah, I was looking at the most recent HK 340's sold to get an idea of price, and most are pretty close together, and about $20-30 more than the Onkyo 505 I was considering so I think it's worth it. The one I bid on last night, I placed my bid with 30 seconds to go, but when it got down to under 10 seconds two snipers outbid me. I mean the kind where they use an external application to put in a bid in the final seconds. But it's okay, I'll get one soon.


----------



## mfetzner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Freas* /forum/post/11616904
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input on the remotes. I may just spend the extra money and get a new unit. There are many many listings for 130 or so bucks. I like the 880 and the features so I think I'll stick with it.
> 
> 
> The KEF's are tempting but the reviews of the HSU stuff are really good. I'd like to be able to spend a grand for a better set of speakers but then I wouldn't have anything to run them with.



Are the HSU better than the Athena Micra 6?


----------



## Karrmer

Alright, it's all set up.


Polk Rti4 x2, CSi3, R150 x2, Onkyo 604 .. no sub yet


Sounds pretty amazing. Speakers are set to large (full on the 604) and the bass is decent enough but I obviously need a real sub, so I'll probably grab a Bic H100 soon enough.


Ecost never shipped it overnight but they refunded my $40 shipping charge so that was decent enough. If anyone is thinking of ordering with them I'd say it seems like they made a rare mistake and they did give me that refund so personally I wouldn't have any issue using them again.


Thanks everyone here for all the help! This is about 1000x better than this $500 Sony HTiB I had bought a few months ago and returned.


----------



## newY_lcd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12144873
> 
> 
> So I ordered everything last Thursday..
> 
> 
> Polk R150 pair from Fry's (outpost.com)
> 
> 
> Polk RTi4 Pair + CSi3 from crutchfield
> 
> 
> Onkyo 604 from ecost
> 
> 
> cables all over from monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> I received the cables and the 16 gauge speaker wire is just completely missing. That was pretty cool, so I'm called them to get that shipped out but that is quite a hassle and I'm not too excited about it.
> 
> 
> Also, ecost.com still hasn't even shipped my order and everyone else has already had their packages arrive (AND ecost was the fastest shipping, I paid for 2 day)
> 
> 
> That really upset me and I've called 3 days in a row and they keep saying it'll ship but it never does. Finally today the guy insists it's shipping now and changed it to priority overnight, so we'll see how that goes.
> 
> 
> Overall not pleased with ecost.com and I'm just going to hope monoprice had a fluke and screwed the pooch on that one. Not hugely impressed with either dealer..



When you order the speaker cables, do you order 100 feet cable and cut it to meet your needs, or just order several short cables? Sorry I have no knowledge about this, and THANK you.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> When you order the speaker cables, do you order 100 feet cable and cut it to meet your needs, or just order several short cables? Sorry I have no knowledge about this, and THANK you.



you buy in bulk and cut it to whatever length you need.


This article shows you how to cut and strip speaker wire.
http://www.firstglimpsemag.com/Edito...7e08.asp&guid=


----------



## newY_lcd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12169763
> 
> 
> you buy in bulk and cut it to whatever length you need.
> 
> 
> This article shows you how to cut and strip speaker wire.
> http://www.firstglimpsemag.com/Edito...7e08.asp&guid=



Thanks, afrogt. Other question for you. Do you know whether Polk R150 is wall mountable? I would like to have Anthena B1.2, but cannot be mounted on wall.


----------



## Karrmer

The R150 has a rear port so I don't think it'd be great to wall mount but if you have a mount with a few inch clearing I don't think it'd be a huge deal.


Also, does anyone know how to make it so when you're playing music from a CD ... to like make the music come out of all 5 speakers? Or at least the center also? It just comes out of my two fronts.


(Onkyo 604)


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Karrmer* /forum/post/12171090
> 
> 
> The R150 has a rear port so I don't think it'd be great to wall mount but if you have a mount with a few inch clearing I don't think it'd be a huge deal.
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know how to make it so when you're playing music from a CD ... to like make the music come out of all 5 speakers? Or at least the center also? It just comes out of my two fronts.
> 
> 
> (Onkyo 604)



Dolby DPLIIx mode or 5 channel stereo...it's been awhile since I've owned Onkyo, but you should be able to configure the AVR to default to matrix Dolby through setup or select the DTS/Neo if you prefer it.


----------



## Karrmer

That worked perfectly, thanks!


----------



## afrogt

Karrmer,


So now that you've received all your equipment, I guess you're not sending it back to eCost? How does it sound?


----------



## will_19_

I just purchased a pair of R50's for my mains and I'm looking for the rest of the setup to pair with my new Onkyo 705. I want to make sure everything is timbre matched and would sound good together.


As far as the center is concerned, which would be better, the CS1 or the CSi3? I'm looking to stay in the $150 range.


For the surrounds (only 5.1 for now), which is a better sounding speaker with my setup, the R150's, RTi4's or the Monitor 30's?


I can't spend much more than $250 on the sub, so I was thinking the BIC H-100?


Anyone care to share their thoughts with me?...As you can probably tell, I'm new to all of this...just didn't want to be chained by an HTiB.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12171729
> 
> 
> I just purchased a pair of R50's for my mains and I'm looking for the rest of the setup to pair with my new Onkyo 705. I want to make sure everything is timbre matched and would sound good together.
> 
> 
> As far as the center is concerned, which would be better, the CS1 or the CSi3? I'm looking to stay in the $150 range.
> 
> 
> For the surrounds (only 5.1 for now), which is a better sounding speaker with my setup, the R150's, RTi4's or the Monitor 30's?
> 
> 
> I can't spend much more than $250 on the sub, so I was thinking the BIC H-100?
> 
> 
> Anyone care to share their thoughts with me?...As you can probably tell, I'm new to all of this...just didn't want to be chained by an HTiB.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I just went through the same decision. I bought the R50 mains, CSR center and R150 surrounds. Keeping everything in the same series (the 'R' series) ensures good tonal matching. The 'i' series would probably not match up as well with the 'R' series. Also the CSR center is available at Crutchfield for $100 so it's a good price. I also just bought a BIC H-100 today as it seemed to be a good choice for the price and performance, and you can get it for $240 shipped on eBay.


----------



## will_19_

So since I have the R50's, I'm stuck with the lower-end R150's and CSR...what about the CS1 for a center?...is it matched for the R50's?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12172436
> 
> 
> So since I have the R50's, I'm stuck with the lower-end R150's and CSR...what about the CS1 for a center?...is it matched for the R50's?



lol you're not STUCK with anything, it's your system but yes the R150s would match the R50s, they use the same tweeter. However for rears where not as much information gets sent to them it's still preferred but not as important. If you want to go with another choice for surround, go for it, but I can't imagine finding a pair of speakers for surround duty at their price.


The CSR would be the best match again using the same tweeter as the F's but the CS1 would work.


PS, you can go to the polkaudio.com website and get complete information on the centers and what is made to match what series. It's laid out very well and very decriptive.


----------



## afrogt

CSR is the perfect match for your R50 and R150 because they share the same tweeter. The CS1 is meant more for the Monitor line.


I'm sure either one would work though.


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12172972
> 
> 
> 
> PS, you can go to the polkaudio.com website and get complete information on the centers and what is made to match what series. It's laid out very well and very decriptive.



Thanks Jakeman, I appreciate your help. I plan on going out to polkaudio.com now to check everything out and to register my new cherry R50's...boy do they look sweet. Too bad they got here before my Onkyo 705!!










I got a good offer on a matching cherry CS1 from a fellow avsforum.com member so if it will work well with my main's I think I'll jump on the offer.


I can't wait until Circuit Crappy refunds my credit card (from an Onkyo HT-S800 purchase) so I can buy the rest of my equipment.


----------



## Florida_Gator

the Rti4's are better than the R150s of course, but they'd be (mostly) wasted as your rear surrounds. The R150s are a perfect match for the R50s, and will do all you want for rear surrounds. The Rti4s would be mostly a waste of money back there.


I have the R50/CSR/R150 set, and am very happy with all of it.


----------



## will_19_

Just purchased the R150's...they should be here by Tuesday. I ordered the R50's on Wednesday and got them today (Friday)...and that's ground shipping. Luckily I live close to the distribution center.


Polkaudio.com states that the CS2 matches the R50's...not the CS1 or CSR.

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/s...uestion_num=63 


This is all so confusing. The CS1 is much cheaper than the CS2, but if the CS2 is matched, then I'll spend the extra money....boy, so much conflicting information!!


----------



## Ron Temple

The CS1 will work fine with the R50s, so will the CSi3, but I preferred the CS1. Get the cherry CS1 at a great price and forget about it. The CS2 is a better center and sounds fuller than the CS1...probably why Polk recommends it.


I've owned both the CS1 and CSi3 with R50s, both great centers and will definitely do the job.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12175363
> 
> 
> This is all so confusing. The CS1 is much cheaper than the CS2, but if the CS2 is matched, then I'll spend the extra money....boy, so much conflicting information!!



Call Polk customer support (800-377-7655 Mon-Fri) or email [email protected] and ask them for recommendation if you want another opinion.


In the meantime, do you already have your R50 connected? Enjoy what you've got; the R150s will give you surround. Use the phantom center setting until you decide on the exact one you want.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12175363
> 
> 
> Just purchased the R150's...they should be here by Tuesday. I ordered the R50's on Wednesday and got them today (Friday)...and that's ground shipping. Luckily I live close to the distribution center.
> 
> 
> Polkaudio.com states that the CS2 matches the R50's...not the CS1 or CSR.
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/education/s...uestion_num=63
> 
> 
> This is all so confusing. The CS1 is much cheaper than the CS2, but if the CS2 is matched, then I'll spend the extra money....boy, so much conflicting information!!



They're just saying that the CS2 will work with the listed speakers.


THE actual "R" series center IS the CSR.


If you go here, you'll see all their centers, by series:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...vidual/center/


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will_19_* /forum/post/12175363
> 
> 
> Just purchased the R150's...they should be here by Tuesday. I ordered the R50's on Wednesday and got them today (Friday)...and that's ground shipping. Luckily I live close to the distribution center.
> 
> 
> Polkaudio.com states that the CS2 matches the R50's...not the CS1 or CSR.
> 
> http://www.polkaudio.com/education/s...uestion_num=63
> 
> 
> This is all so confusing. The CS1 is much cheaper than the CS2, but if the CS2 is matched, then I'll spend the extra money....boy, so much conflicting information!!



Both the CS1 and CS2 center speaker have been designed to be the perfect match for Monitor Series speakers in multi-channel system as stated on their website. While the CSR has been designed to be the perfect match for the R Series speakers.


That in no way means the CSR1 or 2 won't work or match well with the R series. The tweeters are a little different which means it won't be the PERFECT match. In fact if you're just comparing speakers the CS1 and 2 are considered to be an upgrade over the CSR.


If getting the center in cherry to match your others is what you want don't worry about it, all 3 of these will serve you well.


----------



## Karrmer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12171455
> 
> 
> Karrmer,
> 
> 
> So now that you've received all your equipment, I guess you're not sending it back to eCost? How does it sound?



Yea, they refunded the $40 shipping so I decided to stick with it. It was still pretty irritating though, but whatever. They fixed their issue well enough so I'd use em again, it felt to me like some sort of fluke.


The system sounds pretty amazing, just needs a sub and I'll be good to go. Thanks everyone for all the help here.


----------



## AppleCider

I just bought the following:


Onkyo TXSR605 ($382)

4x Polk RTi4s ($170/pair)

Polk CSi3 ($150)


This brings me to $872 shipped, so far, and now I'm looking for a sub. I'm not looking to spend more than $300-350 and one of my problems is I don't know the size of the room yet, since I'm looking to buy a home but haven't decided on anything. Is there a specific way to go about pairing the sub with your other speakers, or is it less important than, say, pairing your center with your fronts? I'm looking at the BIC H100, but am wondering if I'd be better off stepping up to a HSU or eD sub? I plan on movies:music being about 70:30, maybe 80:20.


My second question is about the RTi4s...


I did an impulse buy on the 4x RTi4s because they were scratch and dents at Crutchfield and they were the last 2 pair left. Was buying 4x RTi4s a mistake? I am wondering if I would notice the difference back there, versus the R150s or something similar. I can always return one pair of the RTi4s and pick up a pair of something different. Anyone have a take on this?


----------



## jokeaccount

Well Guys here it is. Finally after some weeks of research and the tremendous help from this forum I have put together my sound system.


Fronts: 2 R300's (was thinking about R50 but were only available in cherry needed black)

Center: CSR

Surrounds: 2 R150's

Sub: VX 10

Receiver: Panasonic SA-XR55S


Let me know what you guys think? This is my very first system and I was only able to put this together through all the knowledge I got from this thread.


Also quick question, I got the 16 gauge speaker wire and the furthest I will have a speaker from the receiver is about 40 feet, and it just one speaker, the rest will be about 12-25 feet.Will is be good enough to handle by the 16 gauge wire?


One again, I would like to thank everyone in this forum for their help and I wouldn't have been able to do this if it weren't for this forum.


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12175608
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime, do you already have your R50 connected? Enjoy what you've got; the R150s will give you surround. Use the phantom center setting until you decide on the exact one you want.



I'm going to get the CS1...it's a good deal, and it's cherry, so my wife will be happy...and we all know, when the wife is happy..."everyone's happy"!










No...I don't have them hooked up yet.







I have them sitting where they're going to go, but I'm waiting for a receiver. I keep going back and forth between the 605 and he 705. Being a guy, I always want the latest and greatest (within reason)...of course. I know the differences between the two aren't much. The 705 has a little more power, can post-process audio, THX cert and has an extra HDMI port. I doubt my virgin ears will hear the difference in power or THX...and I don't necessarily care about post-processing since I'll likely remain at a 5.1 setup...I only have 2 HDMI components to hook up so the two on the 605 would be sufficient...and if I get something in the future, I can always buy a switch or run component from my Dish Vip722 to my TV. I have a Harmony 880 so I'm not worried about switching TV inputs and my TV is only 1080i anyway, so component is fine.


I think I just "typed" myself into deciding on the 605...save the extra $300 and buy something for the wife...or get the Bic H-100 instead of the VX-10.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AppleCider* /forum/post/12177269
> 
> 
> I just bought the following:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TXSR605 ($382)
> 
> 4x Polk RTi4s ($170/pair)
> 
> Polk CSi3 ($150)
> 
> 
> This brings me to $872 shipped, so far, and now I'm looking for a sub. I'm not looking to spend more than $300-350 and one of my problems is I don't know the size of the room yet, since I'm looking to buy a home but haven't decided on anything. Is there a specific way to go about pairing the sub with your other speakers, or is it less important than, say, pairing your center with your fronts? I'm looking at the BIC H100, but am wondering if I'd be better off stepping up to a HSU or eD sub? I plan on movies:music being about 70:30, maybe 80:20.
> 
> 
> My second question is about the RTi4s...
> 
> 
> I did an impulse buy on the 4x RTi4s because they were scratch and dents at Crutchfield and they were the last 2 pair left. Was buying 4x RTi4s a mistake? I am wondering if I would notice the difference back there, versus the R150s or something similar. I can always return one pair of the RTi4s and pick up a pair of something different. Anyone have a take on this?



Its always good to have the same speaker all around because the tonal quality will always be perfectly matched. It also depends on your speaker use if 2 RTi4 in the back is advantageous over say 2 R150 for $100 less. The RTi4 is definiitely a better built and sounding speaker and if you can afford it, keep it.


If you ever plan to play DVD-Audio or SACD discs, you definitely want the RTi4 because they will send discrete signals to each speaker, not just background noise. If you ran "all channel stereo" when playing music you'll like the RTi4 there too.


I guess it all depends on how you plan to use your setup.


As far as subwoofers, from the responses I've read on these forums, the SVS, HSU or eD sub is clearly better than the BIC-H100. I guess its a matter of affordability once again. And no, matching a sub isn't as important as the fronts and center having the same tonal quality. You can buy one of many quality sub brands and calibrate it to work well with your Polks.


----------



## Justmtnb44

What's the best place to order cables and wiring from? I really don't feel like shopping around anymore, so a one stop shop would be good. I'm going to need speaker wire, subwoofer cable, coax digital cables, an optical cable, and a component video cable. I'm sure any place online is going to be cheaper than local stores.


Do I need connectors to attach the speaker wire to the Polk's 5 way binding posts, or can I just attach the bare wire leads?


----------



## Grillrd

After reading this thread and many others on here, I went with:

Onkyo 604 receiver

Polk R150's x 2

Polk R300's x 2

Polk CSR


Going to be going with the BIC sub when I have a larger room for everything in spring. My question is...how should I set up the individual speakers to get the most out of them without the sub yet? I am only using it for HT paired with PS3/hd dv-r cable box. So far everything sounds good, but I don't think it's tweaked properly. Any help would be appreciated


----------



## Grillrd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12179654
> 
> 
> What's the best place to order cables and wiring from? I really don't feel like shopping around anymore, so a one stop shop would be good. I'm going to need speaker wire, subwoofer cable, coax digital cables, an optical cable, and a component video cable. I'm sure any place online is going to be cheaper than local stores.
> 
> 
> Do I need connectors to attach the speaker wire to the Polk's 5 way binding posts, or can I just attach the bare wire leads?



I went with newegg.com. Received everything quickly.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12179654
> 
> 
> What's the best place to order cables and wiring from? I really don't feel like shopping around anymore, so a one stop shop would be good. I'm going to need speaker wire, subwoofer cable, coax digital cables, an optical cable, and a component video cable. I'm sure any place online is going to be cheaper than local stores.
> 
> 
> Do I need connectors to attach the speaker wire to the Polk's 5 way binding posts, or can I just attach the bare wire leads?




Monoprice.com is the best place for quality cables for cheap. Also try partsexpress.com and riteav.com


No, you don't need connectors to attach to the binding post. Bare wire is fine. Banana plugs are a convenience item if you plan to plug and unplug your speakers often.


I do recommend them on the back of the receiver though. Makes the install easier.


----------



## AppleCider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12177814
> 
> 
> Its always good to have the same speaker all around because the tonal quality will always be perfectly matched. It also depends on your speaker use if 2 RTi4 in the back is advantageous over say 2 R150 for $100 less. The RTi4 is definiitely a better built and sounding speaker and if you can afford it, keep it.
> 
> 
> If you ever plan to play DVD-Audio or SACD discs, you definitely want the RTi4 because they will send discrete signals to each speaker, not just background noise. If you ran "all channel stereo" when playing music you'll like the RTi4 there too.
> 
> 
> I guess it all depends on how you plan to use your setup.
> 
> 
> As far as subwoofers, from the responses I've read on these forums, the SVS, HSU or eD sub is clearly better than the BIC-H100. I guess its a matter of affordability once again. And no, matching a sub isn't as important as the fronts and center having the same tonal quality. You can buy one of many quality sub brands and calibrate it to work well with your Polks.



Thanks for the response, and the reassurance.


I've narrowed it down to two subs:


HSU STF-2 ($379 shipped)

eD A2-300 ($350 shipped)


I was actually leaning towards the A2-300 when I read something that gave me pause. eD has stated that their subs are not magnetically shielded, and I've read that HSU are shielded. Now, I don't really plan on having the sub very close to the TV, but there is still a fear(irrational?) of buying a sub that isn't shielded, and unwittingly damaging something. Am I being a bit too paranoid?


----------



## afrogt

If you have flat screen TV (plasma, LCD, SXRD, DLP) they are not affected by unsheilded speakers. Only the old tube CRT's are. And if the sub isn't going to be close to the TV, it doesn't matter anyway.


----------



## Jakeman02

Very few subs are magnetically shielded, personally I can't think of one of the top of my head. I know SVS isn't because I put their 20-39 cylinder next to my old crt and which caused color blotching so I don't think it has anythign to do with price. If you like the A2-300 then go for it, excellent sub.


If you don't have a crt type tv the shielding issue won't matter anyway and if you do there are so many ways around it, I found moving the sub just a few inches one direction or the other made a big difference, oh and your not going to hurt the tv unless you leave it there for long periods, it'll just give you a strange picture and you'll know to start trying other things.


----------



## hpnas

My R150's came from Fry's but one of the speakers came without a grille. I called Polk and they said they would send me out one right away, hope it comes soon.


----------



## jokeaccount

Well Guys here it is. Finally after some weeks of research and the tremendous help from this forum I have put together my sound system.


Fronts: 2 R300's (was thinking about R50 but were only available in cherry needed black)

Center: CSR

Surrounds: 2 R150's

Sub: VX 10

Receiver: Panasonic SA-XR55S


Let me know what you guys think? This is my very first system and I was only able to put this together through all the knowledge I got from this thread.


Also quick question, I got the 16 gauge speaker wire and the furthest I will have a speaker from the receiver is about 40 feet, and it just one speaker, the rest will be about 12-25 feet.Will is be good enough to handle by the 16 gauge wire?


One again, I would like to thank everyone in this forum for their help and I wouldn't have been able to do this if it weren't for this forum.


----------



## Florida_Gator

That Panny receiver was on my short-list too, but I went with the Onkyo 505. Let us know how ya like it!


You'll probably be fine with a 40' run of 16-gauge (esp. if it's one of the R150s), but to be sure, do a test: Connect the subject speaker with 6 ft (or so) of 16-gauge, and listen to it. Do the same listening test with 40'. If you notice a difference (due to signal loss), then get 14-guage for the 40' run.


By the way, if this 40'-run IS one of the rear R150s, I would recommend making the other R150's wire 40' also (and use the same gauge for both, of course). Do the same thing with your front L and R -- use equal-length wire of whatever guage you go with.


Oh and, the wire to your center speaker must be equal to the wire to the sub.


(OK, just kidding about that last one ).


Good luck--you're gonna really like your new speakers!


----------



## AppleCider

Thanks again for the responses. I decided to go with:


Onkyo TXSR605 ($382)

Toshiba HD-A3 ($199)

4x Polk RTi4s ($170/pair)

Polk CSi3 ($150)

eD A2-300 ($350)


Total: $1421


Now I just have to find a good deal on a Panasonic TH-50PZ700U and I'll be set. I can't wait to leave this POS 21" Toshiba behind(it doesn't even have S-video).


----------



## Skid71

Super thread!


I've got a bit of a dilemma.

My girlfriend the "decorator" really wants a sub that will fit into the center of our plasma stand. I really wanted the KEF 3005 set with the "small-ish" center speaker... that would sit on top of the console, in front of the plasma.


However the center area of the console is limited. I currently have a Sony sub (that came with a HTIB). I don't know the model right now. The sub does pretty good, but it's just connected to the plasma's sub-in. Just running the tv speaker and sub right now. Sounds good for what it is. But you know how it goes... it's not good enough!!


Now I'm thinking I have to ditch the KEF's because of the sub. By the way, the room I have to work with is 12"wide 191/2"tall, around 22' deep.


Basically I'm looking for a solid sub that will work well in a 7.1 setup. I'm planning on going with an Onkyo 705.


Hopefully there are some good/great subs that will work with the limited dimensions I have to work with.


Any and all help appreciated!


Skid


ps - good to "see" you afrogt!


----------



## Justmtnb44

Okay, I still haven't purchased a receiver yet. I keep getting outbid on the HK 340 at the last second. If I can't get the HK 340 tonight on eBay, I may just go for the Onkyo 505 instead and save 70 bucks and get it sooner.


Anyway, I need to get a new TV stand to hold my receiver and wanted confirmation on the depth of the HK 340. The ebay site lists the depth as 13.8". Is that correct, seems kinda narrow and it looks more square in the pictures. If anyone has one that they could measure and confirm I would appreciate it. Thanks.


----------



## onebxr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12195779
> 
> 
> Okay, I still haven't purchased a receiver yet. I keep getting outbid on the HK 340 at the last second. If I can't get the HK 340 tonight on eBay, I may just go for the Onkyo 505 instead and save 70 bucks and get it sooner.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I need to get a new TV stand to hold my receiver and wanted confirmation on the depth of the HK 340. The ebay site lists the depth as 13.8". Is that correct, seems kinda narrow and it looks more square in the pictures. If anyone has one that they could measure and confirm I would appreciate it. Thanks.



you might wanna check out ecost.com they have a pretty good selection of recievers that are refurbs. I bought a 604 from there that was way below what they wanted at shoponkyo. It has the same manufact. warranty and mine has been working flawlessly for ~ a month.

-Rich


some hk's
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecce/cate...acturer=Harman


----------



## Frack77

Does anyone see a problem using 4 R50's in a 5.1 setup? 2 up front and 2 for the rears?


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12183887
> 
> 
> ... I got the 16 gauge speaker wire and the furthest I will have a speaker from the receiver is about 40 feet, and it just one speaker, the rest will be about 12-25 feet.Will is be good enough to handle by the 16 gauge wire? ...



FYI, this simple article should help decide: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/s...uestion_num=80


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frack77* /forum/post/12201902
> 
> 
> Does anyone see a problem using 4 R50's in a 5.1 setup? 2 up front and 2 for the rears?



Aboslutely none ... except ... it can be hard to get the height of the tweeters 2' above the listeners when using towers. Read this article about placement: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/s...uestion_num=78 .


Some people actually place them on stands or small tables and/or cabinets! Somewhat surprising, but sturdy and I bet it works great.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12195779
> 
> 
> Okay, I still haven't purchased a receiver yet. I keep getting outbid on the HK 340 at the last second. If I can't get the HK 340 tonight on eBay, I may just go for the Onkyo 505 instead and save 70 bucks and get it sooner. ...



In a "perfect" world, it takes about two or three weeks of watching winning bids on e-Bay to get a good idea of where prices should be, and then setting a price target of what you want to pay and sticking to that.


When I bought my h/k 147 prices fluctuated between about $180 and $230, which is $200-250 with shipping (but before tax for certain states which are listed on the auction). I paid just over $200, so I didn't have enough patience and/or discipline!


I didn't notice if you are intending to use Polk speakers or not, but in my experience, harman/kardon is a better match with these than either Yamaha or Denon (which I also own) and probably better than Onkyo. The differences are subtle but real IMO, but it won't ruin your setup if you ignore this suggestion!


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kex* /forum/post/12203105
> 
> 
> In a "perfect" world, it takes about two or three weeks of watching winning bids on e-Bay to get a good idea of where prices should be, and then setting a price target of what you want to pay and sticking to that.
> 
> 
> When I bought my h/k 147 prices fluctuated between about $180 and $230, which is $200-250 with shipping (but before tax for certain states which are listed on the auction). I paid just over $200, so I didn't have enough patience and/or discipline!
> 
> 
> I didn't notice if you are intending to use Polk speakers or not, but in my experience, harman/kardon is a better match with these than either Yamaha or Denon (which I also own) and probably better than Onkyo. The differences are subtle but real IMO, but it won't ruin your setup if you ignore this suggestion!



Thanks for the advice. I finally won a H/K 340 last night. I had looked back at the past actions and been trying to get one for 4 days in a row (since there is one auction ending every day) and saw that the going price was about $220-$250. I decided to bid a little more than I was bidding the past few days just to try and get one and not wait any longer, besides what an extra $10 anyway. So I was able to get one for $236, which seems to be around the average going price.


I am using Polk speakers; R50 fronts, CSR center, and R150 rears so I think it should sound pretty good. I have all the speakers (just got them yesterday and today), and my sub and cables should be here by Monday, so I hope the receiver comes in soon because I am really excited to get the system together.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12205150
> 
> 
> ... I am using Polk speakers; R50 fronts, CSR center, and R150 rears so I think it should sound pretty good. I have all the speakers (just got them yesterday and today), and my sub and cables should be here by Monday, so I hope the receiver comes in soon because I am really excited to get the system together.



That's going to be an excellent setup. If I were to do this again, I would have preferred a 340 over the 147 (not for extra power, because I have plenty for an AVR, but I made the mistake of getting hung up on HDMI connections, like 95% of buyers these days). I first used my 147 with fairly modest Polk Audio MiniMonitors that are 11 years old (FL, FR, SR, SL) and a CS245i center. The sound was truly excellent and these speakers really surprised me with the h/k. Then I got a severe case of upgraditis and am still infected as I type (the prognosis is not good).


When you get the AVR, run EzSet/EQ. I have found it does quite an accurate job, and even with a SPL meter, I don't make many adjustments (and I'm not sure I'm ever making it any better when I do, even though that statement goes against most of the CW on the subject). Use the speaker icons on the front to check what signal you are getting and what speakers are being played. For example: if the rear left icon is an empty box [ ], it means that speaker is playing, but from a two channel source (the front left and right icons will have an L and an R in the respective boxes). If the rear box icons have text inside them (SR & SL) it means that speaker is playing from a multi-channel source ... etc. It's very intuitive and helps check you are getting proper digital sound from 5.1.


----------



## willmgordon

R50s ack on sale at frys, is around 140/pair good?


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/12207722
> 
> 
> R50s back on sale at frys, is around 140/pair good?



Thats what I paid, and I haven't seen them any cheaper than that recently.


----------



## kappyben

Hi All --


I'm going to buy in December and I'm currently considering two systems. Can you tell me which you think is the better deal or the better system?


SYSTEM 1


Receiver: Onkyo 605 @ Amazon for $406.18

Fronts: Polk RTi8 @ Amazon for $271.23

Center: Polk CSi5 @ Amazon for $235.42

Rears: Polk RTi4 @ Amazon for $174.78

Sub: BIC H-100 on E-bay for around $250

Total: $1337.61


SYSTEM 2


Receiver: Onkyo 605 @ Amazon for $406.18

Fronts: AV123 x-sls @ AV123 for $239.00

Center: AV123 x-cs @ AV123 for for $129.00

Rears: AV123 x-ls @ AV123 for $165.00

Sub: BIC H-100 on E-bay for around $250

Total: $1189.18


Thanks in advance!


kappy


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kappyben* /forum/post/12208526
> 
> 
> Hi All --
> 
> 
> I'm going to buy in December and I'm currently considering two systems. Can you tell me which you think is the better deal or the better system?
> 
> 
> SYSTEM 1
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo 605 @ Amazon for $406.18
> 
> Fronts: Polk RTi8 @ Amazon for $271.23
> 
> Center: Polk CSi5 @ Amazon for $235.42
> 
> Rears: Polk RTi4 @ Amazon for $174.78
> 
> Sub: BIC H-100 on E-bay for around $250
> 
> Total: $1337.61
> 
> 
> SYSTEM 2
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo 605 @ Amazon for $406.18
> 
> Fronts: AV123 x-sls @ AV123 for $239.00
> 
> Center: AV123 x-cs @ AV123 for for $129.00
> 
> Rears: AV123 x-ls @ AV123 for $165.00
> 
> Sub: BIC H-100 on E-bay for around $250
> 
> Total: $1189.18
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> kappy



Both are nice setups. As far as the speakers, both are quality and would depending on your room, your setup and your taste to say which you would prefer. Most here, including me would probably go for the x-sls/cs/ls setup but again it would be your preference. You might want to consider buying a pair of each to start off with and comparing them for yourself. Send the ones back you don't want to keep and order the rest. That way you'd know for sure and the worst you'd be out is return shipping on a pair.


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/12207722
> 
> 
> R50s ack on sale at frys, is around 140/pair good?



Just remember to purchase them separately. You save considerably on shipping compared to buying two at once.


----------



## Ron Temple

happyben,


I'm not sure I agree with Jakeman02 on preference. The x-series are very musical and I like the tweeter better, but for dynamics, especially for home theatre, the RTis have big advantages.


I'd make some changes that will cost you some money. Both setups need a better sub to do them justice. Depending on your room size, you should at least budget for the eD A2-300 ($350) and possibly more. I'd also lean toward an AVR with pre-outs, you can spend less on an HK refurb from ebay or move up in the Onkyo line to the 705. Pre-outs are a 2 or 3 for 1 "upgradeitus" coupon...meaning you can add a separate amp down the road for a speaker improvement(1), don't have to replace the AVR(2) or speakers (3). Something to keep in mind...and since you're already considering decent gear, you're already infected...so an ounce of prevention saves dollars down the road.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12209273
> 
> 
> I'd make some changes that will cost you some money. Both setups need a better sub to do them justice. Depending on your room size, you should at least budget for the eD A2-300 ($350) and possibly more.



+1


a good sub makes all the difference in the world. the Bic is a great budget sub, but not in the same league as the other gear you're considering. the eD sub ron mentioned is a good place to start...also look at SVS and Hsu, for example.


----------



## cambrian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/12209375
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> a good sub makes all the difference in the world. the Bic is a great budget sub, but not in the same league as the other gear you're considering. the eD sub ron mentioned is a good place to start...also look at SVS and Hsu, for example.



You guys make the BIC H-100 sound like a crappy altec sub...


The H-100 is comparable to the lowest end of the Hsu sub. Dr. Hsu helped design the H-100, afterall.


The H-100 is no slouch and it is not considered a "budget sub". It is a great sub at a budget price. Do you have any idea how many people rave about the H-100? Just look at the H-100 thread. That being said, if you have the money, spend $100 and get the eD ones. But then again with $100 you can get better mains too


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cambrian* /forum/post/12210312
> 
> 
> You guys make the BIC H-100 sound like a crappy altec sub...
> 
> 
> The H-100 is comparable to the lowest end of the Hsu sub. Dr. Hsu helped design the H-100, afterall.
> 
> 
> The H-100 is no slouch and it is not considered a "budget sub". It is a great sub at a budget price. Do you have any idea how many people rave about the H-100? Just look at the H-100 thread. That being said, if you have the money, spend $100 and get the eD ones. But then again with $100 you can get better mains too



I don't think he intended to make the Bic sound like a crappy sub. He just thinks that compared to the rest of the speakers the poster is looking at, the Bic might be slightly less sub than he should get. The Bic gets rave reviews, and it should - especially at its price point. It blows away subs at twice its price and higher from brick and mortar stores. I think it's considered a "budget" sub because of its price, not its performance. So I think when you call it a "great sub at a budget price" you nailed it. However, I think with the caliber of speakers being looked at, G-star thought something even better might be in order. I personally think the Bic would be a good fit for that system, though if I could stretch my budget I'd want something more too. If I had $250 max to spend on a sub, I'm almost positive I'd end up with the Bic. But if the budget could be upped a little by saving up for a bit longer, it would probably be worth it to get something a little pricier.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cambrian* /forum/post/12210312
> 
> 
> You guys make the BIC H-100 sound like a crappy altec sub...
> 
> 
> The H-100 is comparable to the lowest end of the Hsu sub. Dr. Hsu helped design the H-100, afterall.
> 
> 
> The H-100 is no slouch and it is not considered a "budget sub". It is a great sub at a budget price. Do you have any idea how many people rave about the H-100? Just look at the H-100 thread. That being said, if you have the money, spend $100 and get the eD ones. But then again with $100 you can get better mains too



You are correct the H-100 is no slouch however it is cosidered a "budget sub". No one said the H-100 was a crappy anything. At it's price point it's imo the best all around choice to go with along with the AV123 x-sub. Both of these are excellent subs and by far the best choices at the $200 price point. The raves you speak of are justified it's and amazing subwoofer if you have a $200 budget.


It is however considered to be a budget sub. That's in no way degrading it putting it down in any way. it's due to it's price. The $200 price point is really the most inexpensive sub I could feel good about recommending. Sure their are cheaper choices out there and I've tried quite a few of them. I haven't found one yet that is worth saving the few bucks over the H-100 to give up the quality and performance drop off. So $200 for me at least is where it begins, that's what I mean when I say budget sub and that's where the H-100 is.


I totally agree with the sub upgrade recommendations. If the original poster wants to move up in the $350 price point and higher he could do MUCH MUCH better than the H-100 with the ED A2-300 or SVS and HSU. The Bic doesn't compare with these offerings and it shouldn't considering the price difference. But I was considering this is the HTIB Alternative thread where people usually come with a lower budget than the other more specific component forums, that's why I didn't offer any opinions as to upgrades since he had quality choices to choose from.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lalakersfan34* /forum/post/12210912
> 
> 
> I don't think he intended to make the Bic sound like a crappy sub. He just thinks that compared to the rest of the speakers the poster is looking at, the Bic might be slightly less sub than he should get. The Bic gets rave reviews, and it should - especially at its price point. It blows away subs at twice its price and higher from brick and mortar stores. I think it's considered a "budget" sub because of its price, not its performance. So I think when you call it a "great sub at a budget price" you nailed it. However, I think with the caliber of speakers being looked at, G-star thought something even better might be in order. I personally think the Bic would be a good fit for that system, though if I could stretch my budget I'd want something more too. If I had $250 max to spend on a sub, I'm almost positive I'd end up with the Bic. But if the budget could be upped a little by saving up for a bit longer, it would probably be worth it to get something a little pricier.



I should have waited 1 more minute and saved a lot of typing,







. Ditto.


----------



## Ron Temple

This thread has evolved over the last few months from those that wanted to spend the least, still looking to avoid HTIB, to those with more budget, but daunted by specific forums with a million options and probably less help. It's been an evolution and kudos to G-star for setting it in stone...it's nearly getting to be it's own forum.


Jakeman02's comments are right on point about subs. The Bic, AV123 and maybe the new Cadence subs are entry level gems. As good or better than most retail subs you can get from the box stores. If that's your budget, by all means, go for it.


If you are spending more on the main rig and speakers, you should consider a better sub. It's not a requirement. You won't think your choice sucks. It will be fine.


The speaker choices I was speaking of, Polk RTis and the x-series can be classified as high entry level or firmly into midfi, depending on your budget and taste. Both will benefit and improve with a better sub. Just like everything else in life...if it applies to you...take note...if not, enjoy what you have.


----------



## kappyben

hey guys --


thanks so much for all the info. it's really helpful. i think you are all really altruistic and kind to help newbies like me make the best choices with our hard-earned dough!


anyway, this discussion was just what i was hoping for. i not only wanted to hear your opinions on which system is "better", i was also hoping for practical advice like "upgrade the sub". i was thinking the sub might not be quite in line with my other gear.


right now i'm thinking i'll go with the polks, just because i like their look, know and like the brand, like the fact the the RTi4s can be wall-mounted, like the fact that the RTi4's are a little smaller than the x-ls's, and i can earn points on amazon with my amazon credit card.










i also think i'll take ron's advice and upgrade to the onkyo 705 (which i was considering) and move up to an eD sub as well. if i'm spending this kind of $, i might as well really do it right.


thanks again,


kappy


----------



## juddmenkveld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juddmenkveld* /forum/post/12041394
> 
> 
> I pulled the trigger on the Athenas. If there is the problem with the sound being too bright paired with the Panasonic XR55 I'll just look into swapping out the receiver. Just need to order the sub now.
> 
> 
> For reference this is what I'll have for my home theater for under $900 delivered:
> 
> 
> Panasonic XR-55 receiver
> 
> Athena F1.2 main speakers
> 
> Athena C1.2 center
> 
> Athena B1.2 rear speakers
> 
> Bic H-100 subwoofer
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help getting me to a final decision!



Just a followup...


I've calibrated this system to the best of my abilities with Avia and an SPL meter. I was concerned about the sound being overly bright based on many previous comments to the point where I think I was biased towards finding it objectionable.


I have to say that after listening to it for a couple weeks, for home theater only, I think it sounds amazing. It is a very detailed sounding system but I don't find it harsh or unpleasant at all in my application. There is definitely no comparison to the Sony HTIB that it replaced.


I'm no audiophile and haven't compared other speakers with this receiver so take my opinion for what it's worth.


----------



## blobula

I've noticed people have been considering the Polk CSR center channel speaker for their setups. Frys is currently selling it for $79.99 so you save a little bit of money by going with them rather than Crutchfield. Just thought I'd let everyone know.


----------



## G-star

lalakersfan, ron, and jakeman said it better than i could have, or obviously did.










the Bic is a great budget sub, one of the best around, but a budget sub nonetheless. i was only trying to say that as you go up the food chain with the ID brands, substantial increases in performance can be found providing a noticeable, impactful return on the additional investment.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/12213687
> 
> 
> I've noticed people have been considering the Polk CSR center channel speaker for their setups. Frys is currently selling it for $79.99 so you save a little bit of money by going with them rather than Crutchfield. Just thought I'd let everyone know.



Damn, I just bought my CSR last week from Crutchfield. And Crutchfield doesn't price match either. Oh well, its not worth the effort to return it and buy it again from Fry's to save 20 bucks on a $900 system.


----------



## Skid71




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skid71* /forum/post/12188618
> 
> 
> Super thread!
> 
> 
> I've got a bit of a dilemma.
> 
> My girlfriend the "decorator" really wants a sub that will fit into the center of our plasma stand. I really wanted the KEF 3005 set with the "small-ish" center speaker... that would sit on top of the console, in front of the plasma.
> 
> 
> However the center area of the console is limited. I currently have a Sony sub (that came with a HTIB). I don't know the model right now. The sub does pretty good, but it's just connected to the plasma's sub-in. Just running the tv speaker and sub right now. Sounds good for what it is. But you know how it goes... it's not good enough!!
> 
> 
> Now I'm thinking I have to ditch the KEF's because of the sub. By the way, the room I have to work with is 12"wide 191/2"tall, around 22' deep.
> 
> 
> Basically I'm looking for a solid sub that will work well in a 7.1 setup. I'm planning on going with an Onkyo 705.
> 
> 
> Hopefully there are some good/great subs that will work with the limited dimensions I have to work with.
> 
> 
> Any and all help appreciated!
> 
> 
> Skid
> 
> 
> ps - good to "see" you afrogt!



I hope no ones minds a bump.


Thanks again,

Skid


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skid71* /forum/post/12218463
> 
> 
> My girlfriend the "decorator" really wants a sub that will fit into the center of our plasma stand....
> 
> 
> Skid



Skid, we still don't know the size limits your "decorator" is placing on the sub.


----------



## jokeaccount

just want an opinion on how these speaker stands are. I will use them for my polk r150's. SANUS SYSTEMS BF-31B Wood Speaker Stands. amazon has them for $47.33 shipped.

http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...5108648&sr=8-4


----------



## DethManX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12221400
> 
> 
> just want an opinion on how these speaker stands are. I will use them for my polk r150's. SANUS SYSTEMS BF-31B Wood Speaker Stands. amazon has them for $47.33 shipped.



I have these, they work awesome. You just have to be careful assembling them, I've heard of people stripping the screws or putting them in at an angle and splitting the wood. A piece of fun-tak on each corner will hold your speaker on, no problem.


----------



## kemitchell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12221400
> 
> 
> just want an opinion on how these speaker stands are. I will use them for my polk r150's. SANUS SYSTEMS BF-31B Wood Speaker Stands. amazon has them for $47.33 shipped.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...5108648&sr=8-4




Are those not the same ones that SVS sells?

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-stand.cfm


----------



## r2iks

Hey All


Long time lurker, posting first time - great thread!. I am trying to put together a system and need your suggestions/comments on speaker selection. I have never owned a HT system before so I have no experience with any of this.


Ordered:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR505 ($151.00 - ordered today from shoponkyo.com)

DVD Player: Oppo 980H ($169.99 - amazon.com)


Speakers WAF - no floor standing and budget is $1k to $1.2k.

This sytem will be used 75% for movies/sitcoms and 25% for music.

*Set 1: (Sensitivity - 89, 100 Watts)*

Fronts: RTi4 - 180.00 (amazon.com)

Center: CSi3 - 149.00 (amazon.com)

Rears: RTi4 - 180.00 (amazon.com)

Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)

Total: $888.00

*Set 2: (Sensitivity - 89, 125 Watts)*

Fronts: RTi6 - 237.00 (amazon.com)

Center: CSi3 - 149.00 (amazon.com)

Rears: RTi4 - 180.00 (amazon.com)

Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)

Total: $945.00

*Set 3: (Sensitivity - 90, 150 Watts)*

Fronts: Infinity Primus P162 - 198.00 (crutchfield.com)

Center: Infinity Primus C250 - 150.00 (crutchfield.com)

Fronts: Infinity Primus P162 - 198.00 (crutchfield.com)

Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)

Total: $925.00

*Set 4: (Sensitivity - 90, 150 Watts)*

Fronts: Infinity Beta 20 - 250.00 (crutchfield.com)

Center: Infinity Beta C250 - 150.00 (crutchfield.com)

Fronts: Infinity Beta 10 - 211.00 (crutchfield.com)

Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)

Total: 990.00




Questions:

a) Which of the 3 would you pick. Are there any other speakers that I have overlooked?


b) I picked HSU over eD A300 based on looks as both were priced same. Am I making a mistake?.


c) Speaker wires - should I buy it from Home Depot or monoprice ?.



Appreciate your thoughts/comments. Thanks in advance.


Infinity appears to have better wattage and sensitivity than the Polks. So in terms of performance, is Infinity better then Polk ?


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2iks* /forum/post/12224051
> 
> 
> Which of the 3 would you pick... Speaker wires - should I buy it from Home Depot or monoprice ?



NOT #3. With a sub at 80 Hz set 1 and 2 will sound very close. To my ears RTi6 sound better than 4s for 2-ch stereo.


Speaker wire from HD is very stiff compared to my other inexpensive cables by Phoenix Gold or Acoustic Research. I have no experience w/ monoprice speaker cables (the price is impressive).


----------



## lalakersfan34

r2iks,


Wow, great research! Looks like three pretty decent options to me. A suggestion, though. If you're looking at Infinity, you could get a setup with their Beta line (a good step up from the Primus line) for probably around $50 more. Amazon has the Infinity Beta 20's for $124.99 each, and the Beta C250 center channel for $115.88. Add in the Hsu and that puts you at around $985. The Betas should be a pretty good upgrade from the Primus, IMO.


As for cables, monoprice is great. Excellent quality products, and very inexpensive! Don't waste money on expensive cables, because they really won't make a difference. As they say on these forums, "copper is copper". As long as you get thick enough wire (14 gauge seems to be the sweet spot, though I use 16 and it works great for shorter runs), you're good to go.


Regarding the subwoofer, it all depends what you need. Yes, the eD should have more output and deeper extension, but it's also not the prettiest thing out there, which I'm sure you (and certainly your wife) have already noticed. The Hsu will likely edge out the eD in musicality, and since you mentioned you do intend to use the speakers for music, the Hsu sounds like a great choice. It will still have authority for home theater, though not as much power as the eD. But with the much better looking package and tight, refined bass, I think the Hsu is the way to go. Good luck!


Stephen


----------



## BACONlover

jokeaccount, i ordered those speaker stands from cruthcfield for my RTi4s. they work fine and look good IMO (and the wifey's). my set was missing 2 pillars and 1 had a small chip on the bottom when it came. one call to sanus CS and they shipped out replacement parts which i got about a week later.


----------



## rick peterson

I ran across these in a dealer as a 'special $400 promotion' but didn't have a chance to really audition them. This is a five same size speakers set with a sub. The sats are gloss red over wood with black cloth grills. The sub is gloss black.


I was told that these are European design from Audio One, an affilliate of Klipsch or some such. They looked really sharp but I wondered if anyone has had a chance to hear them and compare to other small sat sets.


----------



## r2iks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lalakersfan34* /forum/post/12224666
> 
> 
> r2iks,
> 
> 
> Wow, great research! Looks like three pretty decent options to me. A suggestion, though. If you're looking at Infinity, you could get a setup with their Beta line (a good step up from the Primus line) for probably around $50 more. Amazon has the Infinity Beta 20's for $124.99 each, and the Beta C250 center channel for $115.88. Add in the Hsu and that puts you at around $985. The Betas should be a pretty good upgrade from the Primus, IMO.
> 
> 
> As for cables, monoprice is great. Excellent quality products, and very inexpensive! Don't waste money on expensive cables, because they really won't make a difference. As they say on these forums, "copper is copper". As long as you get thick enough wire (14 gauge seems to be the sweet spot, though I use 16 and it works great for shorter runs), you're good to go.
> 
> 
> Regarding the subwoofer, it all depends what you need. Yes, the eD should have more output and deeper extension, but it's also not the prettiest thing out there, which I'm sure you (and certainly your wife) have already noticed. The Hsu will likely edge out the eD in musicality, and since you mentioned you do intend to use the speakers for music, the Hsu sounds like a great choice. It will still have authority for home theater, though not as much power as the eD. But with the much better looking package and tight, refined bass, I think the Hsu is the way to go. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Stephen




Thanks for the suggestion, Infinity appears to have better sensitivity (90) and wattage (upto 150). Do they sound better too ?.


Have you had a chance to listen to Polk and Infinity, how do they compare?. TIA.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2iks* /forum/post/12224051
> 
> *Set 2: (Sensitivity - 89, 125 Watts)*
> 
> Fronts: RTi6 - 237.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Center: CSi3 - 149.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Rears: RTi4 - 180.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)
> 
> Total: $945.00
> 
> 
> *Set 4: (Sensitivity - 90, 150 Watts)*
> 
> Fronts: Infinity Beta 20 - 250.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Center: Infinity Beta C250 - 150.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Fronts: Infinity Beta 10 - 211.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)
> 
> Total: 990.00



I'd lean toward the Polks though some prefer the Betas, so you should get a listen then decide.



> Quote:
> b) I picked HSU over eD A300 based on looks as both were priced same. Am I making a mistake?.



Not a mistake, but do take into account your room size. The Hsu will shine in small to medium sized rooms, is very musical and extends down to ~ 25hz. The eD sub, while a bit industrial looking, will be the better HT sub and will fill a larger space. Subs usually get tucked away and it's dark during movie time. Something to consider. Both are excellent performers.



> Quote:
> Infinity appears to have better wattage and sensitivity than the Polks. So in terms of performance, is Infinity better then Polk ?



Not sure what you mean by better wattage. Both lines are fairly easy to drive to loudness levels you'll find uncomfortable. Sensitivity has no relationship to sound quality. Again, get a listen on and then decide which you prefer.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Set 2: (Sensitivity - 89, 125 Watts)
> 
> Fronts: RTi6 - 237.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Center: CSi3 - 149.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Rears: RTi4 - 180.00 (amazon.com)
> 
> Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)
> 
> Total: $945.00
> 
> 
> Set 4: (Sensitivity - 90, 150 Watts)
> 
> Fronts: Infinity Beta 20 - 250.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Center: Infinity Beta C250 - 150.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Fronts: Infinity Beta 10 - 211.00 (crutchfield.com)
> 
> Sub: HSU STF-2 - 379.00 (hsuresearch.com)
> 
> Total: 990.00



I'd vote for #2 or #4. Probably #2 because I'm not real familiar with the sound of the Infinity Betas.


As far as the power ratings and sensivity, it isn't going to matter since they're so close. The 505 doesn't really put out 110 watts per channel anyway, not all 5 channels with clean low distortion power.


It has plenty of power to drive any of your choices though.


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BACONlover* /forum/post/12224900
> 
> 
> jokeaccount, i ordered those speaker stands from cruthcfield for my RTi4s. they work fine and look good IMO (and the wifey's). my set was missing 2 pillars and 1 had a small chip on the bottom when it came. one call to sanus CS and they shipped out replacement parts which i got about a week later.



thanks alot. gonna go ahead and order them.


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DethManX* /forum/post/12222386
> 
> 
> I have these, they work awesome. You just have to be careful assembling them, I've heard of people stripping the screws or putting them in at an angle and splitting the wood. A piece of fun-tak on each corner will hold your speaker on, no problem.



thanks alot.


----------



## Skid71




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12219480
> 
> 
> Skid, we still don't know the size limits your "decorator" is placing on the sub.



My apologies vinipux


This is the limited room I have to work with.


12" wide, between 19" and 20" length (tall), 19" deep


As a reminder,

Looking for a sub that will fit into our plasma stand. The current sub fits, but is a Sony sub that came from a HTIB. Not sure which model.


Plan on purchasing the Onkyo 705 for a receiver, WAS going to go with the KEF 3005 speaker set, but the sub is the sticking point.


Any help is sincerely appreciated.

Skid


----------



## afrogt

You're putting a subwoofer in a TV stand? All that rumbling can't be healthy for your TV.


Stick the sub in a corner if you can.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skid71* /forum/post/12228593
> 
> 
> This is the limited room I have to work with.
> 
> 
> 12" wide, between 19" and 20" length (tall), 19" deep
> 
> 
> Skid



Boy.. this is gonna be tricky. I doubt you'll find any 10" ones that'll fit.


Get the best 8" one you can afford. What's your budget?


If the stand is open on the side, maybe you can find a side-firing one, that'll will fit. I know the 10" sub that came with my father's Polk RM6800 set was pretty slim, about 8" x 16", but 24" deep.


Good luck,

Val



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12229030
> 
> 
> You're putting a subwoofer in a TV stand? All that rumbling can't be healthy for your TV.



p.s. His decorator told him to do so...


----------



## Skid71

vinipux & afrogt,

I'm thinking the "decorator" will ~accidentally~ lose her vote.


Gonna keep the Sony sub where it is and keep the Pio speakerbar attached like it is now so she can listen to the tv without using the receiver. It will just confuse her anyway.


I've still got to do mucho speaker research. I was thinking of getting the KEF 3005 setup, but I just have this feeling that I can get something (maybe not equal to) that I can save a few bucks on.


Ideally I would like a 7.1 speaker/sub setup that would work superbly with the Onkyo 705. After much help (especially from afrogt) and a lot of research the 705 seems to fit my size/budget/futureproofing...etc. needs.


I see a lot of people saying generally I should spend about 2 to 3 times the price of the receiver on the speaker setup. I don't fancy buying "cheap" speakers once, then going back and replacing them later. I would rather spend a bit more and have a solid system that can be thoroughly enjoyed for a few years.


Well, it's off to research speakers.


Thank you very much for your time and suggestions!


Skid


----------



## afrogt

I was gonna tell you to skip the 705 and for go for the 805. ShopOnkyo had it for $530 shipped earlier today due to the 10% off Turkey Day sale and Club Onkyo pricing. But the guys in the Amps and Receivers forum found out and must have scooped them all up.


Oh well, the 705 is a great receiver too.


----------



## Kex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12229030
> 
> 
> You're putting a subwoofer in a TV stand? All that rumbling can't be healthy for your TV.
> 
> 
> Stick the sub in a corner if you can.



Try and find a nice stylish corner cabinet, large enough to hold a subwoofer and HIDE it, but with speaker cloth in the center of the front door. You could put that somewhere useful. It sounds like you need to find sowewhere to hide your subwoofer out of sight.


----------



## Unoriginal Name

I have read this whole thread and my head is swimming right now with all this information. I started out wanting to get a HTIB for the convenience of everything coming at once but after reading all this I have changed my mind.


I am looking to start a HT set-up. I live in a condo right now so I can't get anything too elaborate right now, but I want to get something good that I can build up even farther when we do finally move out to a house. Because of condo layout and furniture we can probably only go with two speakers, a receiver and maybe a sub, depending on neighbor affect. I have an old set of bookshelf speakers, Bose 201 IV series that I can use for the time being.


Currently I have a DLP 46" television. It has 2 HDMI spots.

I have a A2 HD-DVD hooked up via HDMI.

I also have a little HD DVR hooked up via firewire. (Is there anything that can be done to get surround from a HD DVR hooked up via firewire?)

Lastly, I have a Wii hooked up via components.


Given my television, HD DVD hooked up via HDMI, and Wii hooked up via component what suggestions are there for what would be the best receiver for me right now in a two speaker set-up that I can use to expand to a bigger set-up later?


Also, which sub would be best to enhance my movie watching but at the same time I can set it where it wouldn't be a nuisance to the neighbors?


Thanks.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skid71* /forum/post/12229802
> 
> 
> vinipux & afrogt,
> 
> I'm thinking the "decorator" will ~accidentally~ lose her vote.
> 
> 
> Gonna keep the Sony sub where it is and keep the Pio speakerbar attached like it is now so she can listen to the tv without using the receiver.



Skid, Don't feel frustrated, not all significant others support or appreciate this hobby. Some do, but we gotta be thankful that ours let us play with the stuff.


For a couple of years my wife refused to even try touching the receiver and remote however much she enjoyed when I put something on. She's warmed up a lot lately, *and even chose the speakers for our living room* (If she's reading... if not ... I am just letting her think that. I arranged for her to fell in love with them, which surprisingly was actually not that hard to do either)


There are plenty of family room friendly setups that are easy on eyes and actually sound good. Take her audio shopping to CC, BB or Tweeter and see what she lays her eyes on to get an idea what she might like. Just steer clear of BOSE stands.


Regarding keeping the speakerbar attached to the TV - I always make my a/v connections to allow for watching TV/DVDs w/o turning the receiver on. Your wife and even you one day will appreciate the ease of this option. Keep in mind that sometimes even the best setups need to be taken apart and out of commission for days/weeks.


- Val


----------



## suresh22l

In the beginning I was think of buying HTiB and later on ater reading this thread changed my mind for setting up a HT system. Could some one provide me the feedback on the below HT setup. Will be using this setup mainly for movies. Currently will be setting up 3.1 system. Later on will upgrade to 5.1


Receiver: TX-SR505

Fronts: RTi6/Rti4

Center: CSi3

Rears: RTi4

Sub: Bic H-100


Thanks in advance.

-Suresh


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *suresh22l* /forum/post/12244469
> 
> 
> In the beginning I was think of buying HTiB and later on ater reading this thread changed my mind for setting up a HT system. Could some one provide me the feedback on the below HT setup. Will be using this setup mainly for movies. Currently will be setting up 3.1 system. Later on will upgrade to 5.1
> 
> 
> Receiver: TX-SR505
> 
> Fronts: RTi6/Rti4
> 
> Center: CSi3
> 
> Rears: RTi4
> 
> Sub: Bic H-100
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -Suresh



Excellent choices...my personal preference would be an HK receiver with the RTis, but Onks are solid. I think you'll like the 6s better than the 4s for fronts. If you eventually go 7.1, then FXi3s for side surrounds.


----------



## r2iks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *suresh22l* /forum/post/12244469
> 
> 
> In the beginning I was think of buying HTiB and later on ater reading this thread changed my mind for setting up a HT system. Could some one provide me the feedback on the below HT setup. Will be using this setup mainly for movies. Currently will be setting up 3.1 system. Later on will upgrade to 5.1
> 
> 
> Receiver: TX-SR505
> 
> Fronts: RTi6/Rti4
> 
> Center: CSi3
> 
> Rears: RTi4
> 
> Sub: Bic H-100
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -Suresh



I am in the same boat as you are. I came across Aperion speakers and they seem to have great reviews all across the board. These are slightly on the higher side but feel its well worth it - check them out.


Fronts: Aperion Intimus 532 LR

Center: Intimus 533-VAC

Rears: Intimus 422

Sub: HSU-STF2 or Aperion Intimus S-10


my 2c.


----------



## Skid71

Val,

I suppose all it takes at times is a little patience. I'm passing along my old HTIB onto my brother. When I told my significant other she said to go ahead and give him the subwoofer too (BTW-I got the HTIB box out and the sub is 50w DOH!) She said to go with whatever I thought was best.


If I go with the KEF 3005 set I'm a little concerned about the sub. No gain control on it, just have to control it with the AVR. Looks like quite a few folks are going with a crossover of about 120. Seems a bit high, but I'm sure tweaking (along with researching) will be fun.


She does love using one remote (Harmony) to control everything. She even has all the buttons memorized. I'm quite impressed with her. You know what I mean.


Thanks for your suggestions.


Skid



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12237581
> 
> 
> Skid, Don't feel frustrated, not all significant others support or appreciate this hobby. Some do, but we gotta be thankful that ours let us play with the stuff.
> 
> 
> For a couple of years my wife refused to even try touching the receiver and remote however much she enjoyed when I put something on. She's warmed up a lot lately, *and even chose the speakers for our living room* (If she's reading... if not ... I am just letting her think that. I arranged for her to fell in love with them, which surprisingly was actually not that hard to do either)
> 
> 
> There are plenty of family room friendly setups that are easy on eyes and actually sound good. Take her audio shopping to CC, BB or Tweeter and see what she lays her eyes on to get an idea what she might like. Just steer clear of BOSE stands.
> 
> 
> Regarding keeping the speakerbar attached to the TV - I always make my a/v connections to allow for watching TV/DVDs w/o turning the receiver on. Your wife and even you one day will appreciate the ease of this option. Keep in mind that sometimes even the best setups need to be taken apart and out of commission for days/weeks.
> 
> 
> - Val


----------



## rw71

*Pioneer 517 - $110*:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1171057791920 

*Polk 6750 - $200*:

http://www.black-friday.net/bf/circu...ck-friday.html


----------



## Unoriginal Name




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Name* /forum/post/12236799
> 
> 
> I have read this whole thread and my head is swimming right now with all this information. I started out wanting to get a HTIB for the convenience of everything coming at once but after reading all this I have changed my mind.
> 
> 
> I am looking to start a HT set-up. I live in a condo right now so I can't get anything too elaborate right now, but I want to get something good that I can build up even farther when we do finally move out to a house. Because of condo layout and furniture we can probably only go with two speakers, a receiver and maybe a sub, depending on neighbor affect. I have an old set of bookshelf speakers, Bose 201 IV series that I can use for the time being.
> 
> 
> Currently I have a DLP 46" television. It has 2 HDMI spots.
> 
> I have a A2 HD-DVD hooked up via HDMI.
> 
> I also have a little HD DVR hooked up via firewire. (Is there anything that can be done to get surround from a HD DVR hooked up via firewire?)
> 
> Lastly, I have a Wii hooked up via components.
> 
> 
> Given my television, HD DVD hooked up via HDMI, and Wii hooked up via component what suggestions are there for what would be the best receiver for me right now in a two speaker set-up that I can use to expand to a bigger set-up later?
> 
> 
> Also, which sub would be best to enhance my movie watching but at the same time I can set it where it wouldn't be a nuisance to the neighbors?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Any thoughts and/or advice?


Thanks!


----------



## afrogt

Your HD DVR is connected by firewire? Your TV has a firewire input? Does firewire send video? What kind of audio outputs does your DVR have?


If you only want to use one cable to your TV and run everything else thru your receiver, I'd suggest the Onkyo 605 receiver. It'll upconvert the component video from your Wii to HDMI.


As far as subwoofers, as long as you turn down the volume, any brand would work as far as not disturbing your neighbors. The Velodyne VX-10 is a good starting point and it cost about $160-170 shipped.


----------



## surak

Hi all, my first post after about a week of research. Looong post, so to summarize, I would love some input on a decision for my first surround sound system. Basically, I don't have a lot of money to spend but I want a 5.1 setup for my apartment now, primarily for games and TV. The options I'm considering are an Onkyo SR505 with:


a) Polk RM6750 speaker system

b) Athena Micra 6

c) Polk RM10 with a small, not boomy, sub (the most expensive option that I think I will entertain)


also

d) Infinity TSS-450s are in my price range but some reviews about "tinny" sound scare me and I'm told by the gf that such would be a dealbreaker


I got sucked in to AVS Forum because my gf bought a Samsung 42" plasma and those guys require a lot of careful tuning at first, but then started thinking about home theater speakers because the TV speakers are terrible!


My current setup is that TV and a PS3 in the living room of a smallish apartment. The living room is wider than it is long because it's open to the dining nook, but I'm not looking for a booming system by any means, just a small 5.1 that will make gaming and TV watching (primary uses) plus occasional DVD movies more immersive. There's no room to put 7.1 speakers and the Samsung has 3 HDMI ports so I am perfectly happy with a system that just handles 2 optical ins, no fancy TrueHD needed.


My budget is about $500, but I have no idea whether I can tell the difference between $200 speakers (Polk RM6750 at Black Friday) or ~$270+sub speakers (Polk RM10), because I went to Circuit City and Fry's yesterday and neither had anything close to competent audio system setups for me to listen to (Fry's didn't even have any expensive speakers hooked up, only HTIB systems all on a Star Wars DVD feed that was split so many ways you could hear the hiss from the entire row! And CC had 2 Bose systems showing DVDs while the rest were on receivers with only FM radio! Needless to say, a waste of a drive down to the burbs).


Unfortunately, reading reviews only gets me so far. I'm leaning toward a Onkyo SR505, on sale refurbed at Shop Onkyo for a really terrific price and seems to have the inputs I want. From what I can tell, their speakers in my budget range are not well regarded compared to equivalently priced ones, so I'm interested in a speaker system to go with the receiver. The RM6750s are the lowest priced, the Athena Micra 6s seem like a step up, and the RM10s seem like a step up from the RM6750s but not sure compared to Micra 6s for my intended uses?


I would say that I am able to tell when a system sounds obviously hollow or shrill (like when the input is hooked up to FM, a 10-way split audio feed, or my ear-ruining collection of lossily compressed music played through a low-end Sony HTIB at my friend's place







) but if the speakers give anything close to a smooth sound I will be happy. And unfortunately money is a big factor because I am a grad student (gf has a job, is a better musician, probably has better ears than me, but doesn't care). In a couple years I expect that I'll have a real job (otherwise the sound system won't seem nearly as important







) and a much bigger budget, but I figure this system could go in a bedroom or something then so I'd rather have it all now rather than go down the "start with a 2.1 system" path.


----------



## Unoriginal Name




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12259290
> 
> 
> Your HD DVR is connected by firewire? Your TV has a firewire input? Does firewire send video? What kind of audio outputs does your DVR have?
> 
> 
> If you only want to use one cable to your TV and run everything else thru your receiver, I'd suggest the Onkyo 605 receiver. It'll upconvert the component video from your Wii to HDMI.
> 
> 
> As far as subwoofers, as long as you turn down the volume, any brand would work as far as not disturbing your neighbors. The Velodyne VX-10 is a good starting point and it cost about $160-170 shipped.



It is a IEEE 1394 connection from DVR to television. I actually have two IEEE 1394 ports on the television.


----------



## Vatson

Anyone have any feedback on the *Sony STR-DG 510*? I got it for a get price off ebay. It is still in a factory sealed box. I haven't received it yet, so I am trying to find out any information and comments about this receiver. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Pocket Aces




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vatson* /forum/post/12261888
> 
> 
> Anyone have any feedback on the *Sony STR-DG 510*? I got it for a get price off ebay. It is still in a factory sealed box. I haven't received it yet, so I am trying to find out any information and comments about this receiver. Thanks in advance.



Its a good budget receiver and should provide decent sound. Just be prepared to have coaxial or optical audio connections even if your sources have HDMI out because the receiver cannot accept audio over HDMI even though it has HDMI inputs. The HDMI inputs on the 510 are only used to switch/pass HDMI video to the display.


----------



## on7green




> Quote:
> Anyone have any feedback on the *Sony STR-DG 510*?



I have a 510 with Bose Acoustimass speakers for my TV and it sounds good. Alot of features for a low price (like Sony's CD/SACD/DVD players). The audiosync is useful. It's accurate in the Autoformat mode for decoding DBS or cable and will demonstrate how bad broadcast audio generally is.


I don't know why people put alot of money into surround receivers. Most audiophiles will say they're not going to get great quality sound (since it's digital and 5.1) and I tend to agree (I like to listen to vinyl, tubes, and horn speakers in 2-channel). But for what it claims to be - a budget HT receiver, I think Sony did a pretty good job with this. Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Visioneer

Thanks team...this is one of the best threads in the business...GStar you're the man. I've been a member for a while waiting for a time I could post and purchase.







Because of you my room and list:


Room - 19 x 15 family room, entertainment center built in a corner wall next to the fireplace. Limits me to bookshelf speakers attached to the unit. Have roughly $1500 to spend (invest in my personal entertainment). 80% movies 20% music...am I spending/investing properly and did I miss anything?


Onkyo 605

AV123 xs (4) fronts and surrounds (could I do better here?)

AV123 x-cs center (and here?)

SVS NDS PB-12 (is this too much sub and torn here with Velodyne)


Thanks for any and all help.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *on7green* /forum/post/12270017
> 
> 
> I have a 510 with Bose Acoustimass speakers for my TV and it sounds good. Alot of features for a low price (like Sony's CD/SACD/DVD players). The audiosync is useful. It's accurate in the Autoformat mode for decoding DBS or cable and will demonstrate how bad broadcast audio generally is.
> 
> 
> I don't know why people put alot of money into surround receivers. Most audiophiles will say they're not going to get great quality sound (since it's digital and 5.1) and I tend to agree (I like to listen to vinyl, tubes, and horn speakers in 2-channel). But for what it claims to be - a budget HT receiver, I think Sony did a pretty good job with this. Hope you enjoy it.



I looks like Best Buy has the Sony DGR-510 for $99 on Black Friday if I'm not mistaken. Seems like a killer deal for a budget receiver.


How does the Sony DGR-510 compare to the Pioneer VSX-517?


----------



## surak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *surak* /forum/post/12259733
> 
> 
> Hi all, my first post after about a week of research. Looong post, so to summarize, I would love some input on a decision for my first surround sound system. Basically, I don't have a lot of money to spend but I want a 5.1 setup for my apartment now, primarily for games and TV. The options I'm considering are an Onkyo SR505 with:
> 
> 
> a) Polk RM6750 speaker system
> 
> b) Athena Micra 6
> 
> c) Polk RM10 with a small, not boomy, sub (the most expensive option that I think I will entertain)
> 
> 
> also
> 
> d) Infinity TSS-450s are in my price range but some reviews about "tinny" sound scare me and I'm told by the gf that such would be a dealbreaker



Heh, actually after reading similar threads I changed my mind about satellites and decided to stop vacillating. I bought my first piece today, the Polk R50 floorstanders from Frys.com. I'd like to see whether they'd be decent enough for gaming to forego a subwoofer for a while.


I'm still planning to get the Onkyo SR505, and round out with a Polk CSR and R150 surrounds. The great thing is that I'm going to drive down to the Bay Area for Thanksgiving and Frys/Outpost finally has an in-store pickup option that I can use to save on shipping while getting the online price.


Now I just have to figure out what stand is good for raising the R150s to the right height.


----------



## blobula

These stands were suggested by 'jokeaccount' back on page 72 for the R150s. They look nice.

http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...5587271&sr=8-1


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Visioneer* /forum/post/12270132
> 
> 
> SVS NDS PB-12 (is this too much sub and torn here with Velodyne)
> 
> 
> Thanks for any and all help.



Never too much sub...great choices


----------



## phillyrx

hi guys,


this seems to fit me best, so i'll lay my questions out here...


so currently, my system includes a:

-sharp aquos 46" w/ 1080p,

-toshiba hd dvd player (A3) w/ 1080i,

-motorola hd dvr cable box (verizon fios), and

-the nintendo wii

-(some hdmi cables)


after reading the forums a bit, i think i would like to skip the htib phase and spend on creating my own system SLOWLY, as i only have $500 to spend for now...


so i guess here are my questions:

1 - since i have a budget of $500, i can't buy everything at once. what parts should i start off with? a receiver is a must, but from there, i don't know the order of importance when considering a sub vs. front speakers vs. center vs. rear. the system will be primarily used for movies (most important), tv, and gaming. i won't probably use the system for any type of music or such, but who knows, i may be convinced after hearing the quality.

2 - i would like a receiver that passes audio and video through the hdmi, instead of just video like some i've been reading about. any not too expensive ones out there with a couple of hdmi inputs and room for other components? also, i'm not sure if i really want a 7.1; personally, i think a 5.1 would suffice for my family room.

3 - i'll be heading over to a local tweeter store since they seem to have the most options in my area. any other places i should check out? i'll probably just test them out over there, but eventually buy them online for a good deal, unless they have something.

4 - i'm assuming w/ all things, the quality of the wires will be important. any recommendations in this area?

5 - lastly, is there anything else i need to keep in mind during all of this?


thank you guys in advance for your help... greatly appreciated!!


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phillyrx* /forum/post/12271565
> 
> 
> hi guys,
> 
> 
> this seems to fit me best, so i'll lay my questions out here...
> 
> 
> so currently, my system includes a:
> 
> -sharp aquos 46" w/ 1080p,
> 
> -toshiba hd dvd player (A3) w/ 1080i,
> 
> -motorola hd dvr cable box (verizon fios), and
> 
> -the nintendo wii
> 
> -(some hdmi cables)
> 
> 
> after reading the forums a bit, i think i would like to skip the htib phase and spend on creating my own system SLOWLY, as i only have $500 to spend for now...
> 
> 
> so i guess here are my questions:
> 
> 1 - since i have a budget of $500, i can't buy everything at once. what parts should i start off with? a receiver is a must, but from there, i don't know the order of importance when considering a sub vs. front speakers vs. center vs. rear. the system will be primarily used for movies (most important), tv, and gaming. i won't probably use the system for any type of music or such, but who knows, i may be convinced after hearing the quality.
> 
> 2 - i would like a receiver that passes audio and video through the hdmi, instead of just video like some i've been reading about. any not too expensive ones out there with a couple of hdmi inputs and room for other components? also, i'm not sure if i really want a 7.1; personally, i think a 5.1 would suffice for my family room.
> 
> 3 - i'll be heading over to a local tweeter store since they seem to have the most options in my area. any other places i should check out? i'll probably just test them out over there, but eventually buy them online for a good deal, unless they have something.
> 
> 4 - i'm assuming w/ all things, the quality of the wires will be important. any recommendations in this area?
> 
> 5 - lastly, is there anything else i need to keep in mind during all of this?
> 
> 
> thank you guys in advance for your help... greatly appreciated!!



I'm not an expert, but here are my thoughts.


1. I think a good chunk of your $500 will be taken up by your receiver requirements so due to this it might be best to start off with left and right floorstanding speakers or get 4 Polk R150s and 1 Csi25 from Frys.

2. The new Onkyo TX-SR605 sounds like a great fit for what your looking for. This will eat up around $350 - $400 of the budget though. There may be some Sony receivers that do what your looking for at a cheaper price.

3. www.frys.com - Deals on Polk R50s, R300s, R150s, and CSR speaker models.

4. Check out www.monoprice.com for your wiring needs. This is where I've purchased speaker wire, banana plugs, etc...


You may want to save up a little more for a nice sub to go along with your speakers. Good luck!


----------



## surak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/12270450
> 
> 
> These stands were suggested by 'jokeaccount' back on page 72 for the R150s. They look nice.



(Second attempt at posting, think I can't include URLs yet)


Thanks, those look like just the thing for me.


Anybody use a center shelf on top of their TV? The top of my plasma is only 1" deep and 4" deep total, and my only other options are to put the center speaker on the floor or use a whole lot of sticky tack and hope it doesn't topple. My stand is homemade and I didn't think of putting in any shelves... I doubt I could drill holes in my apartment's walls for a shelf unless they were really, really small and could still support a Polk CSR.


----------



## blobula

What about getting a center speaker stand as well to set the CSR on? Something like this might work, and isn't to expensive.

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...96&dcaid=17902


----------



## surak

Interesting, so that can be used to put the stand on the bottom shelf of my tv stand and raise the CSR up high? I hadn't even thought of that but it looks like my best option. Thanks!


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Visioneer* /forum/post/12270132
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605
> 
> AV123 xs (4) fronts and surrounds (could I do better here?)
> 
> AV123 x-cs center (and here?)
> 
> SVS NDS PB-12 (is this too much sub and torn here with Velodyne)



great choices, and if i were starting out again my list would be very similar. if you can swing the SVS go for it, as ron said, you can never have too much sub.


----------



## Novalax

Alright guys, I'm finally jumping in head first into the audio crowd. Currently I am in the process of acquiring polk rti10s and csi5 center channel speaker. Looking through this monstrosity of a thread I am still unsure about my surrounds and sub choice.

My current setup is as follows:

Onkyo 605

front- Polk rti10

center- Polk csi5

surrounds- deciding between polk rti4s or rti6s (open to any suggestions)

sub- Bic H 100. My room is relatively mid sized so I think this could do the job fairly well.


I'm open to any suggestions as I am a newbie to the audio crowd and I'm justifying my decision(RE: obsession) with you guys.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Novalax* /forum/post/12272771
> 
> 
> Alright guys, I'm finally jumping in head first into the audio crowd. Currently I am in the process of acquiring polk rti10s and csi5 center channel speaker. Looking through this monstrosity of a thread I am still unsure about my surrounds and sub choice.
> 
> My current setup is as follows:
> 
> Onkyo 605
> 
> front- Polk rti10
> 
> center- Polk csi5
> 
> surrounds- deciding between polk rti4s or rti6s (open to any suggestions)
> 
> sub- Bic H 100. My room is relatively mid sized so I think this could do the job fairly well.
> 
> 
> I'm open to any suggestions as I am a newbie to the audio crowd and I'm justifying my decision(RE: obsession) with you guys.



Hi, the 10s are great speakers at the closeout prices. So are the 8s. Up on Speakers I've been trying to steer folks that chose the 10s and 12s toward receivers with pre-outs. An AVR will drive them, but these multi-driver towers crave power. Meaning they sound good on an AVR, but some are disappointed with the bass. A separate amp will do them justice. That Onk doesn't have pre-outs for outboard amps, so you're limiting yourself. Now the 8s have IMO a richer midrange than the 10s, still like power, but coupled with a sub and cut at 60hz, are a better option for those that plan on staying with a receiver alone...cheaper too.


No need to go overkill with the surrounds, 4s or FXi3s will be excellent.


If you can, get a listen on the 10s and 8s using a sub in the showroom or demo both at home. Pick the one that works the best for you.


----------



## afrogt

You could even go with the inexpensive Polk R150's as surrounds. They're is not that much information coming for the back that you need to spend $150+ for a pair of RTi4, unless you're really willing to spend it. The RTi4 is a nicer speaker than the R150 though.


----------



## prawn_sandwich

hi ppl, i was planning to get the Onkyo 605 from circuit city or the Denon AVR1508 from BB. the BB rep assured me the Denon 1508 can transmit both audio n video via HDMI. Can someone confirm this is also the case with the Onkyo 605?

the harmon Kardon is out as it cannot transmit audio via the HDMI










I have a Samsung 4661F and DVR box with HDMI connected to my tv. i would like to get a reciever with 2 i/p so that my upconverting dvd and dvr can both connect to the reciever and from there i have an output to my TV.


Also besides the Polk on sale at CC, hows the yamaha NSP1600 speaker set? which one is better. my living room is 16x15".


Thanks in advance!!


----------



## BACONlover

i'm not sure which H/K you're looking at (146/147?) but the 247 and 347 CAN handle both audio and video via HDMI. i don't know about the denon though.


----------



## pdadi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12273317
> 
> 
> You could even go with the inexpensive Polk R150's as surrounds. They're is not that much information coming for the back that you need to spend $150+ for a pair of RTi4, unless you're really willing to spend it. The RTi4 is a nicer speaker than the R150 though.



I wouldn't recommend R150's over rti4's. I have rti8's has mains. i went cheap and tried r150's as sorrounds. They sounded crap . Tried r300's and not much improvement. Finally tried rti4's . oh boy they are class in their own.


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *surak* /forum/post/12270385
> 
> 
> Heh, actually after reading similar threads I changed my mind about satellites and decided to stop vacillating. I bought my first piece today, the Polk R50 floorstanders from Frys.com. I'd like to see whether they'd be decent enough for gaming to forego a subwoofer for a while.
> 
> 
> I'm still planning to get the Onkyo SR505, and round out with a Polk CSR and R150 surrounds. The great thing is that I'm going to drive down to the Bay Area for Thanksgiving and Frys/Outpost finally has an in-store pickup option that I can use to save on shipping while getting the online price.
> 
> 
> Now I just have to figure out what stand is good for raising the R150s to the right height.



yeah go for the sanus bf-31b from amazon. i got my r150 on them. the top is only 5x5 so th rest of the speaker will stick out but they look really nice and clean. for the price its a good stand. get the 31'' its the best size trust me.


----------



## Vatson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pocket Aces* /forum/post/12261969
> 
> 
> Its a good budget receiver and should provide decent sound. Just be prepared to have coaxial or optical audio connections even if your sources have HDMI out because the receiver cannot accept audio over HDMI even though it has HDMI inputs. The HDMI inputs on the 510 are only used to switch/pass HDMI video to the display.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *on7green* /forum/post/12270017
> 
> 
> I have a 510 with Bose Acoustimass speakers for my TV and it sounds good. Alot of features for a low price (like Sony's CD/SACD/DVD players). The audiosync is useful. It's accurate in the Autoformat mode for decoding DBS or cable and will demonstrate how bad broadcast audio generally is.
> 
> 
> I don't know why people put alot of money into surround receivers. Most audiophiles will say they're not going to get great quality sound (since it's digital and 5.1) and I tend to agree (I like to listen to vinyl, tubes, and horn speakers in 2-channel). But for what it claims to be - a budget HT receiver, I think Sony did a pretty good job with this. Hope you enjoy it.



Thanks for the replies guys...I am really looking forward to *receiving* it tomorrow (no pun intended!). I was also wondering what you are using for a sub? I am looking at a Polk Audio PSW 125.


One other thing I was wondering is what is the point of, as in the case of a Xbox 360, connecting the components through the receiver as apposed to directly to the TV? The way I see it, it is just one more cable to buy. I was hoping that I could connect everything up the the receiver and HDMI it to the TV. THE 510 as you know can not up convert. Thanks again.


----------



## DSTRETCH

Decided to wait to see what Black Friday specials would be out there. Though I am still considering the Athena AS F1.2 floors or the Polk R50s, BB now has all Klipsch Floors at 50% off on Friday, so I am looking at the Synergy F-1s. Any thoughts on the Klipsch vs. Athena or Polk? Also looking at the HK AVR-146 for $199 at BB.


Thanks,


D


----------



## cmconner156

Hey Everyone, this forum has been extremely helpful! I just got done upgrading my speakers, I got Athena F1.2's, C1.2 and R1.2's and now I quickly need to get a receiver as my old one died. I'm trying to stay under the $300 mark and I noticed that on Friday BB will be having the HK AVR-146 for $199. I also saw I can get an Onkyo SR505 for $189 on shoponkyo.com. So my question is which one should I get? Or should I be looking at something else with the speakers I have?


Thanks for all of the help!

Chris


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmconner156* /forum/post/12284804
> 
> 
> Hey Everyone, this forum has been extremely helpful! I just got done upgrading my speakers, I got Athena F1.2's, C1.2 and R1.2's and now I quickly need to get a receiver as my old one died. I'm trying to stay under the $300 mark and I noticed that on Friday BB will be having the HK AVR-146 for $199. I also saw I can get an Onkyo SR505 for $189 on shoponkyo.com. So my question is which one should I get? Or should I be looking at something else with the speakers I have?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the help!
> 
> Chris



Both are fine receivers, for sq I'd have to go with the 146 as I as well as many others think HK has the upper hand in the sound quality area.


----------



## afrogt

The Onkyo 505 is a 7.1 receiver, has 3 component inputs, 2 HDMI, and XM and SIRIUS radio connectivity.


The HK 146 is a 5.1 receiver, 2 component inputs, 2 HDMI, no XM or SIRIUS connectivity.


So the Onkyo has more features and connectivity. I tend to think HK's sound better. The choice is yours.


----------



## jokeaccount

wat are you're guys thoughts on getting a receiver with Dobly TrueHD/DTS HD ? is it better to wait until the war between hd dvd and blu ray is over? and how much on a improvements does these new codecs make over the current ones?


----------



## cmconner156

So if I was mostly interested in SQ and 7.1/XM Radio is not really important then I should probably go with the 146 over the 505?


Thanks for all the help!

Chris


----------



## lalakersfan34

jokeaccount,


Since both Blu Ray and HD DVD use Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio, getting a receiver that decodes these audio formats is a good investment. However, at the moment, most if not all high-def disc players are capable of decoding the audio and sending it, already processed, to the receiver. So right now, having a receiver capable of decoding HD audio formats doesn't seem like a big deal. Likely in the future, players will be sending the audio as bitstreams (like the regular DD and DTS found on DVDs) however, so I think later on the ability will be at least handy, if not required. In fact, the ability is just emerging now. I personally wouldn't prioritize the ability to decode those two formats right now, because my Toshiba HD DVD player decodes it already. But it's up to you.


----------



## nappyloxs

What do you guys think of this:? $550 before shipping. I am a newbie.


Onkyo 505 refurb

Polk rti4 for the front

Polk 150 for the rear

Polk rm6752 for center

Dayton 10 for sub


I will use it for many movies and gaming. Will hook up the infocus in72 projector, xbox 360 component (which I play dvds on currently) and cablebox.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nappyloxs* /forum/post/12291140
> 
> 
> Onkyo 505 refurb
> 
> Polk rti4 for the front
> 
> Polk 150 for the rear
> *Polk rm6752 for center*
> 
> Dayton 10 for sub



Why the RM center?

I would go CSi3 or CSi5 if you can fit and afford it, or NONE.


----------



## afrogt

Check this out for a ultimate budget system based on today's Black Friday Fry's prices.


$197 - HK AVR 147 5.1 receiver

$99 - Polk R50 towers pair

$49 - Polk R150 bookshelves/pr

$79 - Polk CSR center speaker

$99 - Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer


All together under $530. Not bad eh?


And they have a Panasonic upconverting 1080p DVD player for $29! So $560 for a complete system.


----------



## Athens88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12293758
> 
> 
> Check this out for a ultimate budget system based on today's Black Friday Fry's prices.
> 
> 
> $197 - HK AVR 147 5.1 receiver
> 
> $99 - Polk R50 towers pair
> 
> $49 - Polk R150 bookshelves/pr
> 
> $79 - Polk CSR center speaker
> 
> $99 - Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer
> 
> 
> All together under $530. Not bad eh?
> 
> 
> And they have a Panasonic upconverting 1080p DVD player for $29! So $560 for a complete system.



Those are in-store and not internet prices, right?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12293758
> 
> 
> Check this out for a ultimate budget system based on today's Black Friday Fry's prices.
> 
> 
> $197 - HK AVR 147 5.1 receiver
> 
> $99 - Polk R50 towers pair
> 
> $49 - Polk R150 bookshelves/pr
> 
> $79 - Polk CSR center speaker
> 
> $99 - Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer
> 
> 
> All together under $530. Not bad eh?
> 
> 
> And they have a Panasonic upconverting 1080p DVD player for $29! So $560 for a complete system.



HTIB killer...


----------



## jokeaccount

its only been two weeks since i had my setup.


fronts:r300

center:csr

surround:150


and i already have a itch to upgrade my speakers. this is my first system and i don't know why, maybe im spending 2 much time on this thread







thinking about going with av123 x-series setup (just the speakers).

am i getting too ahead of myself? should i hold off and enjoy what i have for a few years?


----------



## sre2094

I am new to this whole audio thing and I Have been reading alot, how would this setup sound Polk R50 x2, Csi3, Monitor 30s x2, I am not sure about the sub yet. I already have the r50s and they are cherry would the monitors work or would I be better off going with the rti4, I have read the r150 work good but I would like to have these match the cherry finish. Thanks for any opinions


----------



## nappyloxs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12293459
> 
> 
> Why the RM center?
> 
> I would go CSi3 or CSi5 if you can fit and afford it, or NONE.




No, can't afford it right now. I do have a magnavox HTIB center I could use for a while.


You think the rti4 will be good for awhile. I could probably get the center in a few months. Just holiday season right now.


anyother centers under 100 that would be worth it?


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nappyloxs* /forum/post/12296111
> 
> 
> No, can't afford it right now. I do have a magnavox HTIB center I could use for a while.
> 
> 
> You think the rti4 will be good for awhile. I could probably get the center in a few months. Just holiday season right now.
> 
> 
> anyother centers under 100 that would be worth it?



yes, they have the polk csr for $79 at fry's.


----------



## nappyloxs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12296194
> 
> 
> yes, they have the polk csr for $79 at fry's.



Is that better than the rm6750?? The CSR was actually the one I was originally looking at, but was just going by the items listed on the first page.


----------



## nappyloxs

What about the polk csi25?? $99 on amazon.


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nappyloxs* /forum/post/12296259
> 
> 
> Is that better than the rm6750?? The CSR was actually the one I was originally looking at, but was just going by the items listed on the first page.



yes its better. i was also looking into the rm when i was setting up my system like a week ago. someone here suggested i go with csr since it goes with the r series from polk. make sure ur fronts all match up. with the csr u can either use following for fronts r50,r300, or r150(if budget concerns)


----------



## nappyloxs

I was thinking of using the rti4 for the fronts and r50 for the rears


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12296003
> 
> 
> its only been two weeks since i had my setup.
> 
> 
> fronts:r300
> 
> center:csr
> 
> surround:150
> 
> 
> and i already have a itch to upgrade my speakers. this is my first system and i don't know why, maybe im spending 2 much time on this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thinking about going with av123 x-series setup (just the speakers).
> 
> am i getting too ahead of myself? should i hold off and enjoy what i have for a few years?



What don't you like about them? Do you have a sub yet? The problem I see with upgrading too soon is that your speakers are worth more than you paid for them. Unless you can hand them off to a relative or friend for what you paid, you're going to lose a few dollars...unless of course you can return them (forgot about that).


There are many speaker options that are better and before you upgrade you should listen to as many as you can to better understand what you like and dislike. Once you hear some more expensive gear that may or may not be a subjective upgrade, you'll find it hard to part with dollars until you fall completely in love. I speak from experience.


All that said, if you dislike the Rs and can return them, the x-series are excellent speakers for looks and a definite notch up in SQ.


Good Luck


----------



## jokeaccount




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12296456
> 
> 
> What don't you like about them? Do you have a sub yet? The problem I see with upgrading too soon is that your speakers are worth more than you paid for them. Unless you can hand them off to a relative or friend for what you paid, you're going to lose a few dollars...unless of course you can return them (forgot about that).
> 
> 
> There are many speaker options that are better and before you upgrade you should listen to as many as you can to better understand what you like and dislike. Once you hear some more expensive gear that may or may not be a subjective upgrade, you'll find it hard to part with dollars until you fall completely in love. I speak from experience.
> 
> 
> All that said, if you dislike the Rs and can return them, the x-series are excellent speakers for looks and a definite notch up in SQ.
> 
> 
> Good Luck



i have vx 10 sub. i use them for my xbox 360 and watching movies. they work perfect no problems at all. i can return them but i would have to pay shipping, which i think isn't going to be cheap. these are my first speakers and sq is pretty good cause i haven't really heard any speaker's before these.im just in a mentality where i think if i just pay a few more i can getter better quality, i just don't know.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12296573
> 
> 
> i have vx 10 sub. i use them for my xbox 360 and watching movies. they work perfect no problems at all. i can return them but i would have to pay shipping, which i think isn't going to be cheap. these are my first speakers and sq is pretty good cause i haven't really heard any speaker's before these.im just in a mentality where i think if i just pay a few more i can getter better quality, i just don't know.



Honestly right now I don't think you're going to find anything that would be an upgrade to the R300s for just a few more $$. The price they are going at is a steal and while they aren't the best speakers out there, they are light years ahead of what you paid for them as far as performance and value goes.


Keep them for a while and save up for what would be a real upgrade and not just a sideways move and possibly ending up with something you don't like as much if your buying blind. Listen to as many speakers as you can in the mean time and if you still have the upgrade bug you'll know more about what sound characteristics you're looking for compared to what you have.


Don't just feel you need to upgrade because you got a great deal, especially since you stated you're happy with them and you really haven't heard anything else. Take a listen to different speakers, if they really leave a grin on your face then bring them home and test them in your system. Companies like av123 which you mentioned also have a trial period and some will even pay return shipping if you decide to send them back. If want an demo order a pair, that way you're not out a lot on the return if you do decide to send them back, if you like them order the rest.


----------



## jokeaccount

thanks to afrogt's post. i picked up a pair of r50's for $99 at my local frys. thanks! But when i got them home and hooked them up to my xr-55 the music was low compared to my r300. i dont know why that is. do they need to be broken in? my r300 sounded loud right of the bat at the same volume.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12298316
> 
> 
> thanks to afrogt's post. i picked up a pair of r50's for $99 at my local frys. thanks! But when i got them home and hooked them up to my xr-55 the music was low compared to my r300. i dont know why that is. do they need to be broken in? my r300 sounded loud right of the bat at the same volume.



Maybe a bad connection...there shouldn't be that much difference. I think, if you haven't already, it's time to run to Radio Shack and pickup a SPL meter. Calibrate all your speakers to the same relative db volume at your listening position. That should balance things out.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/12298316
> 
> 
> thanks to afrogt's post. i picked up a pair of r50's for $99 at my local frys. thanks! But when i got them home and hooked them up to my xr-55 the music was low compared to my r300. i dont know why that is. do they need to be broken in? my r300 sounded loud right of the bat at the same volume.



They both have similar efficiency. 90db for the R50 and 89db for the R300. So the R300 shouldn't be noticeably louder.


According to Polks website, the R50 list for $639/pr. Yeah right!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12299306
> 
> 
> the R50 list for $639/pr. Yeah right!



When they were first introduced, there were lots of folks happy to shell out MSRP, within a year they started discounting, but until 2 years ago when Frys started giving them away as a loss leader, the average R50 sale was ~ $400/pr. Are they worth $640/pr, not hardly, especially considering today's ID market. $400.00 for a retail floorstander wouldn't be a standout value, but they'd sell. Anything under $200 is a steal for these speakers.


----------



## bandit390

I was thinking up picking up Klipsch Quintet III 5.1.


Would they go good with onkyo 605 or 705 or should I look into another set of speakers?


----------



## En3D

RTi4 - Fry's $149

CSi3 - craigslist $80 perfect condition

Velodyne VX-10 - Fry's BF $99


Have not decided on surrounds yet, but most likely some in ceilings. All bought within the last couple of days. This thread rocks.


----------



## newY_lcd

which one is better, HK AVR 247 receiver, or Onkyo TX-SR 605?


----------



## TZOH

I'm in the market for a a 5.1 speaker system. My family room is 22X18. I don't want to spend more than $600.00 for the speakers. I don't have a receiver yet but am considering the ONKYo 605, 505 or Harmon 147.


Circuit City has the Polk 6880 speaker group on sale on line for $450.00. From what I have read on this forum over the last few days, this may be a reasonable purchase at this price. Is the 6880 group a decent speaker system? If not, any suggestions?


----------



## afrogt

Look at the Onkyo 894 system for $399 on Tigerdirect.com and Amazon if you want to go cheap HTIB.


Since you're looking at the 6880 system, does that mean you need small satellite speakers. If not, you can get an Athena setup of B1.2 fronts and rears and C1.2 center for $300 for 5 speakers. Then add a Velodyne VX-10 sub for $170.


Or look at some Mission bookshelfs.

M70s $70/pr
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2191 


If you don't like silver or prefer a slightly bigger speaker, look at the M31 for $150/pr.
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2321 


You can pair either with this center speaker.
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2227 


If you have a Fry's Electronics nearby, they have the Polk RTi4 bookshelves on sale for $150/pr. I think the matching matching center is around $130.



How much do you want to spend on a receiver?


----------



## TZOH

Yes, I do need relatively small front and rear speakers. It is the only way the boss will argree with the purchase.


I would like to spend around $300 on the receiver. The total cost of the system should be in the $700 to $800 range. I was also looking at the ONKYO 908 HTIB. I can find it on sale for probably $800 at our local HHGregg. I didn't know if the 908 pacjage was better than the Polk 6880 speakers witha $300 receiver.


We don't hav a Fry's nearby.


Are the proposed Mission speakers better than the 6880 group?


----------



## keldarironfist

i am getting a good deal on a hd-dvd player and i briefly considered htib but yea i could prolly build better for the money. im not tryin to dump alot of cash this is for a fairly Large bedroom/apartment sized living room. so i dont need anything crazy but i would like to stick with hdmi as my connection standard and something that will allow me to take advantage of the dolbyHD and DTSHD formats....i also see fry's has the r150's still on sale for 50$ too.


----------



## JRW160

I'm trying to finalize my decision, and I really like the onkyo 505. The only problem is that it only has 2 optical inputs. I have an htpc, xbox360, and directv hd receiver that all run optical outs. Does anyone make toslink switches that can be controlled via IR?


Also, I had decided on the velodyne cht front row speakers a while back, but it looks like they are no longer available. Are the mission m70s good substitutes? I need some speakers that can be wall mounted, and I'd like to stay under $300 for the set.


----------



## afrogt

The Missions may be better substitutes for the Velos. A while back someone did a comparison and said the Missions were clearly better. But since the Velos are no longer available its a moot point.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/revi...MissionM70.php 


Wall mounts are available for the M70
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2405


----------



## blobula

For an HDMI cable run between 25ft - 30ft what kind of HDMI cable would you recommend from monoprice? There are several different types at that length for various prices so I'm unsure. I'm thinking the first one for $15 should be fine?


HDMI cable $15 (26AWG - 25ft).
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


HDMI cable $31 (22AWG - 25ft).
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


HDMI 1.3 cable $41 (22AWG - 25ft).
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## afrogt

if you read the customer reviews you'll see that 22awg is heavy and thick and may cause the connecter to pull itself out from the receiver or HDMI device. I think you'll be fine with the 26awg. The 26 is pretty thick on its own accord.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JRW160* /forum/post/12322094
> 
> 
> ...505 only has 2 optical inputs. I have an htpc, xbox360, and directv hd receiver that all run optical outs. Does anyone make toslink switches that can be controlled via IR?



RAM Electronics, MonoPrice (our sponsors) and others sell signal converters - much more practical than switches. Looks like you just need one optical to digital coax converter to make your setup work.


----------



## JRW160




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12326553
> 
> 
> RAM Electronics, MonoPrice (our sponsors) and others sell signal converters - much more practical than switches. Looks like you just need one optical to digital coax converter to make your setup work.



Thanks. I didn't realize converters existed. That makes the decision much easier. I just wanted to make sure I had a little room to add sources in the future.


----------



## afrogt

Doesn't your HTPC come with digital coaxial and optical? A lot of the motherboards I'm seeing nowadays have both.


----------



## JRW160




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12332569
> 
> 
> Doesn't your HTPC come with digital coaxial and optical? A lot of the motherboards I'm seeing nowadays have both.



Mine is a few years old and only has optical. I noticed a lot of new boards are coming with digital coax and optical or just digital coax.


----------



## buzzy_

I thought I'd mention this and let the people who are familiar with Polk prices comment on whether it's good - it seemed like some were. Free shipping always helps with speakers.


Get a Free Polk Subwoofer with Polk Speaker Purchase of $499 or More

Purchase $499 or more worth of qualifying Polk Audio speakers listed below and get a free Polk Audio PSW10 subwoofer--or get a credit of $199.95 towards any of the other qualifying Polk subwoofers listed below. Simply add everything you need to your shopping cart, and if your speaker purchase meets or exceeds $499 your subwoofer discount will be applied automatically. Offer ends January 8.

Amazon link 


The in wall and in-ceilings seem to be included and some on sale too. RC65i / RC60i / RC80i especially

link 


There have also been great prices on RTis at Outpost and One Call.


----------



## surak

This may be late, but I was looking at the SR505 too before deciding to go for a refurb Harman/Kardon AVR-147 from their factory outlet. The 147 has similar features to the 505, but also has additional optical and coax inputs in the front (so 3 each). I just received it yesterday and it looks practically new.


The AVR-146 also appears to have 3 optical/coax inputs. It was going for $199 new at Fry's last week when I was shopping around (which was the same as Best Buy's Black Friday price... and Fry's BF price on the 147







).


----------



## JRW160




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *surak* /forum/post/12371158
> 
> 
> This may be late, but I was looking at the SR505 too before deciding to go for a refurb Harman/Kardon AVR-147 from their factory outlet. The 147 has similar features to the 505, but also has additional optical and coax inputs in the front (so 3 each). I just received it yesterday and it looks practically new.
> 
> 
> The AVR-146 also appears to have 3 optical/coax inputs. It was going for $199 new at Fry's last week when I was shopping around (which was the same as Best Buy's Black Friday price... and Fry's BF price on the 147
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).



Doesn't the AVR-147 only put out 30w per channel? While the SR505 puts out 75w per channel


----------



## surak

See "Why are Harman Kardon amplifiers so much more powerful than amplifiers with the same power ratings that are made by other companies?"

http://www.harmankardon.com/faq/show...search=general 


I'm no expert so I can't say which receiver is more powerful in real life, but from reading around, I don't get the impression that the H/Ks are underpowered compared to similarly priced competitors' receivers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JRW160* /forum/post/12371440
> 
> 
> Doesn't the AVR-147 only put out 30w per channel? While the SR505 puts out 75w per channel



The 147 is 40wpc I believe, but as the link surak provided states, HK does things differently. When you go shopping for AVRs some will rate their power at 1khz...these are the ones that are flat out fudging their specs. If you see 2 or more channels driven 20-20khz @ 8ohms, then they are probably going to be pretty close. HKs specs are rated by 2 channels and all channels driven, plus the high current design gives you headroom. The 2xx series can deliver over 35 amps of stored power for dynamic peaks. This provides punch and why so many of us feel that HK sounds more powerful than many AVRs with more impressive specs. Also, all HKs actually give you a few more watts, all channels driven, than they are rated.


The Onkyo 5xx are very good performers as well. It can deliver 75w into 2 channels 20-20k, but, IIRC, drops down considerably when driving 5 or more channels. WRAT is their version of high current delivery.


The all channels driven spec is useful for comparison purposes, but real world usage rarely requires an AVR to deliver similar power to all channels at once.


When shopping for an AVR, avoid the ones only offering the 1khz spec if possible.


----------



## gvenarchik

These forums have been very helpful to this total noob. Been just lurking for a while.

Thanks to all you folks who take time to answer.


I own a 940HD Elite Plasma and that's it. Now I'd like some good sound.

I've gathered enough to know a couple of things--

I don't want Bose (way low on the value/$ scale)

I don't want HTIB (no offense to anyone)

I'd like to set the R/L fronts 'into' a 6" wide x 31" high x 8" deep space in a media center that we're building. They will be 50 inches apart.


I just demo'd DefTech Mythos II's w/ the 800 sub powered by the Denon 3808

Wowzie wowzer! Too much fun. and too much $$. I'd love to keep the whole dealio to

$3K.

2 Questions (to start!)

What makes the Denon 3808 so sweet? Will going 'down' to a Onkyo 705 sound so awful and is it OK to set these front and center speakers 'into' these enclosed compartments?


The room is 18x14x9 (avg height with a peaked ceiling) The unit will be on the long wall.


I'm grateful for any response. George


I'll try to forward a schematic of the piece we're building.

Here goes- http://by140w.bay140.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Action=ScanAttachment&AllowUnsafeConte ntOverride=False&AttachmentIndex=0&AttachmentDepth=0&FolderI D=4d60caea-fac8-46f9-bcc7-ae0122ba5a65&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&IsMes sageSafe=True&MessageCodePage=20127&ReadMessageId=7e8811eb-a66e-4296-96d6-1bc5bcd41b27&n=814802561


----------



## gvenarchik

hello afogt

i want to wire my walls while waiting for a cabinet to be built.

total noob question - do i need 4 conductor speaker cable?

12 0r 14 guage?

thanx in advance

geo


----------



## Arkitech

Anyone here have experience with the Dayton HTS-1200? I've been looking to get a set of speakers on a shoe string budget (200 bucks) to go with a Onkyo sr605 and a Dayton sub-120. I read some really good reviews on the Mission m70's as well as the Velodyne Front Rows but neither of those speakers seem to be available now, I can't even find them on Ebay. So I'm just curious if the Dayton's are in the same class as the Velodyne's and the Mission's. If not are there any out there that meaure up in that price point?


Finally one last question, whats the general consensus on the Polk 150s? They are listed on Fry's for about 49.99 a pair. I was thinking of perhaps getting 2 pairs and finding a center to match up with them.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvenarchik* /forum/post/12380027
> 
> 
> hello afogt
> 
> i want to wire my walls while waiting for a cabinet to be built.
> 
> total noob question - do i need 4 conductor speaker cable?
> 
> 12 0r 14 guage?
> 
> thanx in advance
> 
> geo



4 conductor means you'll only have to run 1 cable for every 2 speakers, so that might be more convenient. I assume the cables will connect to a wall plate like this?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


As far as 12ga vs 14ga, it depends on the length of your speaker runs. Here's a chart for recommended lengths.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## gvenarchik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12380931
> 
> 
> 4 conductor means you'll only have to run 1 cable for every 2 speakers, so that might be more convenient. I assume the cables will connect to a wall plate like this?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> As far as 12ga vs 14ga, it depends on the length of your speaker runs. Here's a chart for recommended lengths.
> http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm



thank you


i was asking because i've noticed 4 connections on the back of the speakers i've demo'd (even tho the store only had 2 of those 4 hooked up)

gv


----------



## zoom soldier

what's harman kardon's equivalent of the onkyo 605 or 705? (if there's a such thing).


tried searching but the keywords were too common. thanks.


----------



## afrogt

Probably the HK AVR 247 and 347


----------



## newY_lcd

Does ONKYO 605 have more features than HKAVR 247? HK AVR 247 has lower price than the ONKYO 605 model.


----------



## finkel98

Hi all and thanks for this great thread!


newbie here and after having considered an HTIB, am now down the path of creating my own set!


On a budget ($500) and looking to get a receiver and 2 front speakers for now (and possibly a center speaker). I am leaning towards the Harman Kardon AV247, it seems a good bargain for the price.


Can anyone recommend a good set of front speakers to use? Ideally I like floorstand speakers that are stylish (read: not too bulky). I saw the HKFS2 speakers from Harman and I like this style. Are they good speakers? Do you know of good speakers with this style and under 200?


----------



## ruktuim

First time poster, after reading a lot of the post and research on my own.

I've come up with 3 options for a surround sound system.



Option 1:


Front Left/Right: Polk Audio R50 (Price: 60$ Each)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/s...rstanding/r50/ 


Center: Polk Audio CS2 (Price: 190$)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/s...al/center/cs2/ 


Rear Left/Right: Polk Audio R50 (Price: 60$ Each)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/s...rstanding/r50/ 


Sub: Dayton SUB-120 12" (Price: 140$)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=300-635 


Receiver: Onkyo 605 (Price: 400$)
http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater...5.html?tag=sub 



Total Price: 970$





Option 2:


Front Left/Right: Sony SSF-5000 (Price: 120 Pair)
http://reviews.cnet.com/separate-spe...8.html?tag=sub 


Center: Sony CN5000 (Price: 90$)
http://reviews.cnet.com/separate-spe...0.html?tag=sub 


Rear Left/Right: Sony SSF-5000 (Price: 120 Pair)
http://reviews.cnet.com/separate-spe...8.html?tag=sub 


Sub: Dayton SUB-120 12" (Price: 140$)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=300-635 


Receiver: Onkyo 605 (Price: 400$)
http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater...5.html?tag=sub 



Total Price: 870$


Option 3:


Speaker Set: Onkyo SKS-HT540 (Price: 230$)
http://review.zdnet.com/surround-spe...96.html?tag=ut 


Receiver: Onkyo 605 (Price: 400$)
http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater...5.html?tag=sub 



Total Price: 630$



I'd Love Opinions on the three options, or ideas for anything I could improve on.

I'm very open to suggestions  seeing this is my first time putting together a surround sound system.


(Info that might help as well, the system is for an a living room that measures 19 Feet By 24 Feet, With about 12 foot vaulted ceiling. The system would be used 95% for movies/tv and 5% for music)


Thanks Again,

Ruk


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newY_lcd* /forum/post/12383861
> 
> 
> Does ONKYO 605 have more features than HKAVR 247? HK AVR 247 has lower price than the ONKYO 605 model.



The HK currently has a lower price than the Onkyo but they both list for $499. The price fluctuates daily and I've seen the Onkyo as low as $350 in the past also.


The HK and Onkyo have some different features. The HK has 7.1 preouts so that you can connect an external amplfier if you want to add more power. It also has a sound processor called Logic 7 which is exclusive to Harman products. It kind of works like Dolby PLII where you can apply it to two channel sources for 7.1 sound. The HK also sounds better and seems to have more power in reserve, even though the power ratings state the Onkyo have more.


I own Onkyo and HK receivers and my HK is more powerful and sounds better than the Onkyo.


The Onkyo is probably more user friendly. It also has a higher version of HDMI so you might be able to process a couple more sound formats via HDMI.


You can't go wrong with either one.


----------



## BACONlover

the HK 247 passes thru video signals via HDMI. whatever video device outputting 1080i or 1080p (upconvert dvd, cable or satellite box, blu-ray or HD-DVD) you have connected to the HDMI IN of the 247 will be output via HDMI OUT at the original resolution. however, other video devices outputting 480i, 480p or 720p connected to the 247, will only be output at 720p via the receiver's HDMI out. to clarify...


on the receiver:


HDMI IN --->> HDMI OUT

1080i -->> 1080i

1080p -->> 1080p

720p -->> 720p

480i -->> 720p

480p -->> 720p


component in -->> HDMI OUT

1080i -->> 720p

720p -->> 720p


component in -->> component out

1080i -->> 1080i

720p -->> 720p


you can also check out this link for HK247/347 discussion thread to learn about issues regarding these models and also owner's experiences http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868358 . hope this helps.


----------



## kidsdoc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12273286
> 
> 
> Hi, the 10s are great speakers at the closeout prices. So are the 8s. Up on Speakers I've been trying to steer folks that chose the 10s and 12s toward receivers with pre-outs. An AVR will drive them, but these multi-driver towers crave power. Meaning they sound good on an AVR, but some are disappointed with the bass. A separate amp will do them justice. That Onk doesn't have pre-outs for outboard amps, so you're limiting yourself. Now the 8s have IMO a richer midrange than the 10s, still like power, but coupled with a sub and cut at 60hz, are a better option for those that plan on staying with a receiver alone...cheaper too.
> 
> 
> No need to go overkill with the surrounds, 4s or FXi3s will be excellent.
> 
> 
> If you can, get a listen on the 10s and 8s using a sub in the showroom or demo both at home. Pick the one that works the best for you.



hello, ron, me again; pardon the newbie question but for those of us w/ 605's do we have any options for "amp'ing" RTi8's/10's? thanks.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kidsdoc* /forum/post/12391764
> 
> 
> hello, ron, me again; pardon the newbie question but for those of us w/ 605's do we have any options for "amp'ing" RTi8's/10's? thanks.



No you don't. There's no preouts on the Onkyo 605 to do that. Onkyo doesn't start including those on receivers until you get to the 700 series.


HK includes preouts on all the 200 series receivers and up.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruktuim* /forum/post/12385423
> 
> 
> I'd Love Opinions on the three options, or ideas for anything I could improve on.



i wouldn't consider options 2 or 3. sony and onkyo speakers are the bottom of the barrel (HTIB territory). option 1 seems the best, though i would personally step the receiver down to a $200 model from onkyo or H/K, and get a better sub, from say elemental designs or HSU, for example.


----------



## GrooveRite

I'm looking to upgrade my aging system. I just bought a new receiver (Yamaha RX-V661) but my speakers need to be upgraded. I have a pair of Jamo front speakers and a Jamo center and a pair of Bose 161 surrounds. I can't remember the model number but I have a Technics sub which sounds great in my living room. The size of my living room in my apartment is 20' x 11'. I'm really looking to upgrade the speakers. I was thinking of getting the SBS-01 from SVS but I don't know how well they'll perform with my equipment and in my room. Any help from you guys would be very much appreciated!


----------



## TurkeySandwich

I'm on a very tight budget, so I decided to start with a basic 2.0 setup with some of the budget components that have been discussed on this forum.


I ordered the Pioneer 517 ($110) and 2 polk r50s ($140 after shipping.)


Does anyone have this set up? Any opinions or thoughts? I haven't received them yet, so I have been unable to try them.


I have read a couple reviews that both of these were a little light on the bass. Has anyone had any experience running this set up without a sub? I'll be in an apartment so I'm a little cautious to get a sub and become the annoying neighbor who keeps shaking the walls.


I'm new to HT in general, so what should I look for when configuring the receiver? Is there anything more than just setting it to 2.0 with the speakers being set to Large?


Thanks.


----------



## confidenceman

Great noob thread! Lots of useful info.


I recently transitioned to an all HDMI set-up (onkyo 605, ps3, 32" LCD), and my next step is building up my speakers (currently just two fronts). I'll be building this system slowly over the next couple years. My next purchase will be a subwoofer.


After doing some looking around here on the forums (and especially this thread) and some initial listening, I've narrowed my choices to the av123 x-sub or the Bic h-100.


My question is this: for my price range (~$200), might it be more worthwhile to look for older out-of-production _used_ subs?


I've seen some older $500-600 subs going for $200-300 used. Are there certain older subs in this price range that are worth keeping an eye out for? Other than listening to them, are there visible signs of damage (that will affect sound quality) that I should look out for? Is there a going line on which older models age well (i.e., are durable and reliable)?


Thanks.


----------



## will_19_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *confidenceman* /forum/post/12396673
> 
> 
> Great noob thread! Lots of useful info.
> 
> 
> I recently transitioned to an all HDMI set-up (onkyo 605, ps3, 32" LCD), and my next step is building up my speakers (currently just two fronts). I'll be building this system slowly over the next couple years. My next purchase will be a subwoofer.
> 
> 
> After doing some looking around here on the forums (and especially this thread) and some initial listening, I've narrowed my choices to the av123 x-sub or the Bic h-100.
> 
> 
> My question is this: for my price range (~$200), might it be more worthwhile to look for older out-of-production _used_ subs?
> 
> 
> I've seen some older $500-600 subs going for $200-300 used. Are there certain older subs in this price range that are worth keeping an eye out for? Other than listening to them, are there visible signs of damage (that will affect sound quality) that I should look out for? Is there a going line on which older models age well (i.e., are durable and reliable)?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I can't answer your specific question, but I just bought the Bic H-100 and am very impressed with it!! After getting it setup correctly, it shakes my entire house! It scares the crap out of my dogs and makes my kids say "Wow, that was AWESOME!!".


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GrooveRite* /forum/post/12395402
> 
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade my aging system. I just bought a new receiver (Yamaha RX-V661) but my speakers need to be upgraded. I have a pair of Jamo front speakers and a Jamo center and a pair of Bose 161 surrounds. I can't remember the model number but I have a Technics sub which sounds great in my living room. The size of my living room in my apartment is 20' x 11'. I'm really looking to upgrade the speakers. I was thinking of getting the SBS-01 from SVS but I don't know how well they'll perform with my equipment and in my room. Any help from you guys would be very much appreciated!



I know nothing about your Jamo gear, so I can't compare. The SBS-01 package is an excellent value and will be fine with your new AVR...


----------



## GrooveRite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12397042
> 
> 
> I know nothing about your Jamo gear, so I can't compare. The SBS-01 package is an excellent value and will be fine with your new AVR...



Thanks for your response! Good to know because I've been slowly warming up to these SBS-01's. The only thing that might be a problem is their size. I have to see where I'm going to set them up since my space is limited. I'll try putting up a pic of my set up later when I get home so you guys can see what I'm talking about and maybe even give me some suggestions.


----------



## KPT

Hello to all,


My current setup is Vizio 52", Oppo 981 and DTV HD DVR.


I'm just about to pull the trigger on:

Onkyo 605

Polk RTi4 L/R

Polk CSi3

BIC H-100


Now the question - Due to space/layout (and wife) limitations, I'm restricted to smaller wall mounted speakers for my surrounds. They will have to be mounted on the walls to the sides of the sofa at approx 9' high and angled slightly down.


I would be gratefull if I could get some recomendations/thoughts/whatever for a matching rear satallite type or small speaker for the surround duty. Approx. split of 80%TV & movies and 20% music.


Would something like the Polk RM101 work?


Thanks for any thoughts you can provide.

Kevin


----------



## Florida_Gator

Why not another pair of RTi4s for rears?


----------



## KPT

Gator,


That would be a great choice from a SQ perspective, but I'm concerned that they will be too big to mount on the wall. I'm sure that my wife would use her veto....I'm ideally looking for something about half the size without loosing too much SQ and is a reasonable match to the L/R/C Polks.


Thanks

Kevin


----------



## KPT

OK a left field thought here, could I use a second pair of RTi4's lying on their backs on the floor (tiled) behind my sofa. Would this work?


----------



## Florida_Gator

It would work, but man, what a waste of RTi4s!


They're not that big, and are not that hard to wall mount. But yeah, you could definitely use RM101 or 201 speaker back there. Those would handle the rear channel fine, and it's not as critical that they're voice-matched with the front sound stage (L/C/R speakers should all "match").


Try to find a place (Circuit City, etc.) to try them as rears with others as fronts.


----------



## En3D

KPT, I have RTi4s for the fronts and sounds like you and I have the same wife issue. RTi4 wall mounted was a no go with my wife.


----------



## KPT

Gator - I agree, it was just a long shot. Good suggestion re getting a demo, I'll see if I can get CC or BB to cooperate.


En3D - so what did you end up doing for your surrounds or are you running with 3.1?


----------



## En3D

Right now, it's 3.1. But in a few weeks, I will have some time and will install in-ceilings most likely Polks but have not decided.


This will satisfy the aesthetic factor and easier for me (crown molding and tight quarters due to roof slope makes it difficult to fish wires). Though not ideal from a sound perspective.


----------



## gvenarchik

Guys

I've been reading many threads and posts all over this board. I appreciate the time and care that many fellas put into this thing

Here is my frustration, I don't get to hear the BIC's, Jamos, AV123's and Onk 605's of the world - here in Northern NJ we have the big box stores CC, BB, EE, 6Ave and as impressed as I am in the listening rooms at Magnolia etc. and hearing DefTech and KEF thru a 3808ci and it's very cool and sounds nice, then the guy says 'that's around $4000, I'm like "ok, call ya later" then I get away from there and face that I just have a hard time plunking down $4K plus when I watch about 1 hour of TV a nite and listen to music only occasionally. Is it me, or is there a way to get some "WOW!" when I watch that once a week movie and listen to a little Steely Dan once in a while?

And where can I demo such a system? or do I just suffer from champagne taste and a beer budget?

Any honest feedback welcome.


----------



## Tulpa

Smaller independent stores often carry the brands. If you go to the manufacturer websites, you can often find links to authorized dealers near you that may have showrooms/demo rooms.


Others often have a generous return policy (30 days, no questions asked, etc.) although those can have hassles of their own.


----------



## emersite

Thank you so much to all who contribute to this board! My knowledge was zero - today, after two months of reading and researching this thread, I installed my system  !


Onkyo 605

Front Rti4

Center CSi3

Rear R150

Bic 100


I have calibrated with Onkyo's Audyssey feature, but feel I am not quite there yet. I have read several posts about calibration here, but I have not been able to find them. I know I will find them if I spend a few hours reviewing, but if you know where they are, could you please point them out?


Thanks!!!

Emerson


----------



## Tulpa

How do you like the Bic sub? I'm thinking of getting one.


----------



## emersite

I am still not able to comment. I am sure I should calibrate my system before I can feel the power of the Bic.


For instance, the Audyssey Setup adjusted the Bic to -15db and the crossover to 100hz. I am not sure these are the ideal settings and that's why I am looking for the calibration posts.


By the way, if anyone remembers posts about calibration that deal specifically with the speakers and receiver I have, that would be great! See previous post above: Onkyo 605, Rti4(F), CSi3(C), R150(R), Bic100.


Thanks again,

Emerson


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12412742
> 
> 
> I am still not able to comment. I am sure I should calibrate my system before I can feel the power of the Bic.
> 
> 
> For instance, the Audyssey Setup adjusted the Bic to -15db and the crossover to 100hz. I am not sure these are the ideal settings and that's why I am looking for the calibration posts.
> 
> 
> By the way, if anyone remembers posts about calibration that deal specifically with the speakers and receiver I have, that would be great! See previous post above: Onkyo 605, Rti4(F), CSi3(C), R150(R), Bic100.
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Emerson



-15 for the receivers subwoofer level is way to low, the volume/gain on the subwoofer would have to be set way to high to compensate, no wonder you're not getting anything from it.


Check out the link below, specifically 7 and 8. This will help with the subwoofer setup. As far as the speakers crossover 80 should be good all the way around, fronts center and surrounds..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949414


----------



## ruthdog23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KPT* /forum/post/12406277
> 
> 
> OK a left field thought here, could I use a second pair of RTi4's lying on their backs on the floor (tiled) behind my sofa. Would this work?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12407422
> 
> 
> It would work, but man, what a waste of RTi4s!
> 
> 
> They're not that big, and are not that hard to wall mount. But yeah, you could definitely use RM101 or 201 speaker back there. Those would handle the rear channel fine, and it's not as critical that they're voice-matched with the front sound stage (L/C/R speakers should all "match").
> 
> 
> Try to find a place (Circuit City, etc.) to try them as rears with others as fronts.



How well would this work? I am in the same situation. My floor is ceramic tile as well. The old lady won't go for wall mounted speakers. If I could lay the RTi4 on its back on the floor behind the sofa that would work out perfectly. Let me know what you guys think!


----------



## KPT

Ruthdog - I posted the same question re lying the RTi$'s on there back point upward on other forums and generally didn't get approval on this. Let me know if you try it out!


I've decided to initially go with a 3.1 set up of:- 605, RTi4's, CSi3 and H-100. I'll get that setup and give the surround speakers, both type and placement some more thought.


Emerson - I'm very interested in your experience on how well the R150's match the SQ/tone/timbre of the RTi4/CSi3 as they are probably just about small enought to mount on the wall and pass the wife asthetics test







. I would certainly try these out if your experience are good. Please keep us all informed.


----------



## HT Nut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvenarchik* /forum/post/12379972
> 
> 
> These forums have been very helpful to this total noob. Been just lurking for a while.
> 
> Thanks to all you folks who take time to answer.
> 
> 
> I own a 940HD Elite Plasma and that's it. Now I'd like some good sound.
> 
> I've gathered enough to know a couple of things--
> 
> I don't want Bose (way low on the value/$ scale)
> 
> I don't want HTIB (no offense to anyone)
> 
> I'd like to set the R/L fronts 'into' a 6" wide x 31" high x 8" deep space in a media center that we're building. They will be 50 inches apart.
> 
> 
> I just demo'd DefTech Mythos II's w/ the 800 sub powered by the Denon 3808
> 
> Wowzie wowzer! Too much fun. and too much $$. I'd love to keep the whole dealio to
> 
> $3K.
> 
> 2 Questions (to start!)
> 
> What makes the Denon 3808 so sweet? Will going 'down' to a Onkyo 705 sound so awful and is it OK to set these front and center speakers 'into' these enclosed compartments?
> 
> 
> The room is 18x14x9 (avg height with a peaked ceiling) The unit will be on the long wall.
> 
> 
> I'm grateful for any response. George
> 
> 
> I'll try to forward a schematic of the piece we're building.
> 
> Here goes- http://by140w.bay140.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Action=ScanAttachment&AllowUnsafeConte ntOverride=False&AttachmentIndex=0&AttachmentDepth=0&FolderI D=4d60caea-fac8-46f9-bcc7-ae0122ba5a65&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&IsMes sageSafe=True&MessageCodePage=20127&ReadMessageId=7e8811eb-a66e-4296-96d6-1bc5bcd41b27&n=814802561



Head over to the AVS classifieds, look for the Klipsch for sale advertisement, get an Onkyo TX-SR805 and you can have some superb reference level sound for well under $3K


----------



## newY_lcd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KPT* /forum/post/12414819
> 
> 
> Ruthdog - I posted the same question re lying the RTi$'s on there back point upward on other forums and generally didn't get approval on this. Let me know if you try it out!
> 
> 
> I've decided to initially go with a 3.1 set up of:- 605, RTi4's, CSi3 and H-100. I'll get that setup and give the surround speakers, both type and placement some more thought.
> 
> 
> Emerson - I'm very interested in your experience on how well the R150's match the SQ/tone/timbre of the RTi4/CSi3 as they are probably just about small enought to mount on the wall and pass the wife asthetics test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I would certainly try these out if your experience are good. Please keep us all informed.



R150 cannot be mounted on the wall; if you do, it needs several inches from the wall.


----------



## KPT

newY_LCD,


Thanks, I just looked at the Polk site and spoke with their tech service, the R15 and M10 are both front ported and are wall mountable. So I may go that route instead.


----------



## afrogt

You'll be lucky to still find the R15, most places replaced them with the R150.


----------



## gvenarchik

----

Just got an offer at my local bigbox guy to buy the following:


Pioneer VSX92

KEF 6001 series (3) l/r/c

SuperCube III

Panny BD30 $3K


I still have a problem with spending so much, but he is also giving me 18 months same as cash.


Anygood?

gv


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvenarchik* /forum/post/12420504
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> Just got an offer at my local bigbox guy to buy the following:
> 
> 
> Pioneer VSX92
> 
> KEF 6001 series (3) l/r/c
> 
> SuperCube III
> 
> Panny BD30 $3K
> 
> 
> I still have a problem with spending so much, but he is also giving me 18 months same as cash.
> 
> 
> Anygood?
> 
> gv



Kef's larger bookshelf and floorstander lines are very nice. If it's about the WAF, go for it. If you want better bang for the buck it's there at the expense of more real estate.


The reciever is very nice

The speakers are typical HT designer series that may be or not be good, you'll have to decide.

The sub is an underachiever at it's price point, but small.

The BD player ???


It's about what you want. If you want the interior designer look then those speakers will work for you. The Pio Elites are very nice receivers...if it has the features you want, go for it. The SC3 I would pass on, but it's not a bad sub...there's just better out there. If you want a small form factor sub that performs way above it's price, then look at the SVS SB12Plus. It's a 14" cube with serious musicality and muscle for $700.


That throws your package deal out the door, but I'd offer him $2400 and see what he says.


----------



## lawnranger

Okay so basically i read 3 pages of this forum and then skipped 70 pages to get to the present. I am building a system. My budget is approximately $1400. I'm trying to keep this simple since I've never done this. I was thinking of a Onkyo tx-sr605 reciever, and then a speaker system of some kind. Maybe a SBS-01 system or something, i am not realy sure. Any recommendations


----------



## gvenarchik

Thanks for the input Ron.

Re: the SC3 -I'm hearing similar things on another thread- gotta get beefier methinks.

I gotta laugh at myself, it's all I can do to NOT pull the trigger.

Patience Georgie, patience.

The cabinet I'm building needs those long/tall mountable l and r speakers.

....did I mention they sound awesome?

G


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvenarchik* /forum/post/12421411
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input Ron.
> 
> Re: the SC3 -I'm hearing similar things on another thread- gotta get beefier methinks.
> 
> I gotta laugh at myself, it's all I can do to NOT pull the trigger.
> 
> Patience Georgie, patience.
> 
> The cabinet I'm building needs those long/tall mountable l and r speakers.
> 
> ....did I mention they sound awesome?
> 
> G



That's all that matters...I've know a Kef dealer, we talk from time to time and he's convinced me of their quality.


----------



## gvenarchik

thanx jerry

i just gotta go with the elite here (it matches the tv after all!)

i am loving the sound and features and i think i can work a pretty good deal

the pio 92, kef 6001's and sc3 sw, bd30 panny for $3k.

....but it ain't over till the fat lady sings

g


----------



## Justmtnb44

I would just like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread for their great advice. I wouldn't have put together my own HT system without this thread. This is my first HT system. My parents have a Sony HTIB, but SQ is only ok. I originally thought of the Onkyo SR800 or 990 THX, but after reading this topic was convinced otherwise. Here is what I ended up getting:


Harman Kardon AVR 340 (refurb from HK eBay store)

Polk R50 mains

Polk CSR center

Polk R150 surrounds

Bic H-100 sub

all cables from Monoprice

DIY rear speaker stands


Sound quality is quite good, but I don't really have much to compare it to. It is definitely better for movies than music, but still heads above any HTIB I'm sure. I'm sure in time I'll want to upgrade, but who doesn't especially after spending so much time on AVS forum!


And here are a few pics of it setup.


----------



## Tulpa

How do you like the sub?


----------



## Justmtnb44

One other thing, I put the subwoofer in the corner behind the TV. This was mostly due to space concerns since I live in an apartment (side by side duplex) and my living room isn't that huge. Does anyone else have theirs placed like this? For the most part it sounds good, but if it hits really low the bass tends to get slightly boomy, I'm assuming this is due to the corner amplifying/ reflecting the sound waves? Would it be better just along a side wall? I've read about multiple ways of determining the best placement but haven't had a chance to try them yet, maybe I should though.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/12422013
> 
> 
> How do you like the sub?



I like it a lot. Like I said, really nothing to compare it too, but to me for the price I think it sounds awesome. It can really shake the whole room and even house with the right source fed into it. It isn't just a noise maker though and works well for all situations (music, movies, tv, etc) in my opinion.


----------



## Tulpa

Corner placement tends to be favored for a lot of people, but it really depends on the room. If you can test it out in different spots, it won't be time wasted.


I have my Onkyo sub in a corner which helps it, but it isn't behind the display.


I've been looking to upgrade to a Bic H-100.


----------



## lawnranger

So i am basically at the point where i am overwhelmed with all the possible options for building a home theater. I currently have a lifestyle 28 home entertainment system, and i think i found that that wasn't such a good choice. I'm going to eBay it and use the money plus maybe a little more to build a system myself. I was hoping to keep it simple going with just a speaker package and receiver. Which would hopefully be tons better than my Bose. The hard thing is everyone suggests something different so its hard to decide what to get. I m sure there really isn't too many bad setups when they are custom built. So I'm open to as many suggestions as possible around the 1400$ range. Thanks


----------



## G-star

great to see this thread still humming along and people using the collective info and wisdom of all the contributors to put together some great budget systems.










and thanks to whoever made it a sticky thread.


----------



## emersite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12412742
> 
> 
> I am still not able to comment. I am sure I should calibrate my system before I can feel the power of the Bic.
> 
> 
> For instance, the Audyssey Setup adjusted the Bic to -15db and the crossover to 100hz. I am not sure these are the ideal settings and that's why I am looking for the calibration posts.
> 
> 
> By the way, if anyone remembers posts about calibration that deal specifically with the speakers and receiver I have, that would be great! See previous post above: Onkyo 605, Rti4(F), CSi3(C), R150(R), Bic100.
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Emerson





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12413283
> 
> 
> -15 for the receivers subwoofer level is way to low, the volume/gain on the subwoofer would have to be set way to high to compensate, no wonder you're not getting anything from it.
> 
> 
> Check out the link below, specifically 7 and 8. This will help with the subwoofer setup. As far as the speakers crossover 80 should be good all the way around, fronts center and surrounds..
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949414



Thank you, Jakeman02.


Does this mean that I should completely override Audyssey's setup? I mean, I should manually set up all crossovers to 80hz, adjust the levels with the SLM, and set equalizer to normal (not Audyssey)?


That is what I did. The levels ended up being around -2db to +3db, including the Bic, which is now at -2db. However, when the Bic is in stand-by mode and I watch a movie, I realize that sometimes the on/off led is red. In other words, the Bic is not turning on. To be honest, I still did not feel I am taking advantage of its power at all.


Could you advise?

Thanks again,

Emerson


P.S. KPT, the R150s work great as the surround speakers, but as it was said, you cannot wall mount them.


----------



## phoenix79




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/12426232
> 
> 
> great to see this thread still humming along and people using the collective info and wisdom of all the contributors to put together some great budget systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and thanks to whoever made it a sticky thread.



Your Welcome










After 150,966 views and 2,286 replies I thought that it only made sense.


----------



## lawnranger

whats up everyone. I'm looking at building a system. So far this is what i've come up with. It would be extremely helpful if i could get some suggestions on where i could improve this. maybe i don't need that expensive of a bass.


Onkyo TX-Sr605 Receiver

2 R50s

csi3 center

2 Rti4 for the rear speakers

SVS PB10-NSD bass


----------



## hpnas

I have my x-overs for my Polk R300, R150 & CSR @ 80 Hz and my BIC H-100 at 100 Hz. Should my x-over for my sub also be at 80 hz?


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12429605
> 
> 
> whats up everyone. I'm looking at building a system. So far this is what i've come up with. It would be extremely helpful if i could get some suggestions on where i could improve this. maybe i don't need that expensive of a bass.
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-Sr605 Receiver
> 
> 2 R50s
> 
> csi3 center
> 
> 2 Rti4 for the rear speakers
> 
> SVS PB10-NSD bass



If you are going to use the CSi3 and RTi speakers then I would get something better than the R50's for the front. Maybe the RTi8's if you can find them in your price range. Or just another pair of Rti4's.


If you can afford it I hear great things about the PB10-NSD. I wanted to get it, but can't justify the price at this time.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12426971
> 
> 
> Thank you, Jakeman02.
> 
> 
> Does this mean that I should completely override Audyssey's setup? I mean, I should manually set up all crossovers to 80hz, adjust the levels with the SLM, and set equalizer to normal (not Audyssey)?
> 
> 
> That is what I did. The levels ended up being around -2db to +3db, including the Bic, which is now at -2db. However, when the Bic is in stand-by mode and I watch a movie, I realize that sometimes the on/off led is red. In other words, the Bic is not turning on. To be honest, I still did not feel I am taking advantage of its power at all.
> 
> 
> Could you advise?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Emerson
> 
> 
> P.S. KPT, the R150s work great as the surround speakers, but as it was said, you cannot wall mount them.



emersite, sorry I'm jumping in late...for a start, yes, set the sub up manually, all speakers to small, crossover at 80hz all around. Use the SPL meter to match your sub to the mains @ 75dbs. This will mean the sub is calibrated 2-3 dbs hotter than the other speakers due to the meter's inaccuracy down low. Make sure you are using digital sources and that they are set to bitstream (or DD/DTS). Throw in a movie with heavy bass and tell us how it sounds. It should improve your bass performance. Sometimes Audessey and other EQs does strange stuff with the sub and speaker settings, but if it's not working properly, start over manually.


----------



## lawnranger

hey guys how does this setup sound?


Onkyo TX-Sr605 Receiver

4 Rti4

csi5 center

Polk Audio PSW505 Powered Subwoofer


and maybe i can add two more rti4 for 7.1

what do u guys think?


----------



## Tulpa

I think there are better subs for the money. Bic H100, eD subs, etc.


----------



## lawnranger

would i be better off with two rti8s in the front over two rti4s? if there was say an 80$ difference?


----------



## lawnranger

also i haven't be able to find anything negative about the Polk Audio PSW 505 Powered Sub woofer, only stuff on how good it is. I am able to get it for 150$ , so thats also a motive.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12432084
> 
> 
> also i haven't be able to find anything negative about the Polk Audio PSW 505 Powered Sub woofer, only stuff on how good it is. I am able to get it for 150$ , so thats also a motive.



The 505 is a decent sub...for $150 it's a steal. RTi8s are very nice, get them while they last.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12432084
> 
> 
> also i haven't be able to find anything negative about the Polk Audio PSW 505 Powered Sub woofer, only stuff on how good it is. I am able to get it for 150$ , so thats also a motive.



Oh, okay, that's a better price. It's not that that sub is bad, but for its normal price of $300 or so, there are better ones. But for $150, it's a good bargain, as things like the Bic H100 are about $100 more.


----------



## twg519

Is there any way to hook up two rti8's directly to the TV? I'm slowly building a system, and it would be a great help if i didn't have to buy a receiver right away.


If not, how would I go about hooking up the speakers to the receiver. Connecting wires is the most confusing part of the home theater game to me.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twg519* /forum/post/12434405
> 
> 
> Is there any way to hook up two rti8's directly to the TV? I'm slowly building a system, and it would be a great help if i didn't have to buy a receiver right away.
> 
> 
> If not, how would I go about hooking up the speakers to the receiver. Connecting wires is the most confusing part of the home theater game to me.



No, you cannot hook those speakers up directly to the TV. You have to connect them to a receiver/amplifier of some kind. You just connect the wires from each speaker to the matching terminal on the back of the receiver, it's not that hard. The receiver manual should show you what needs to go where.


----------



## lawnranger

okay now i have come up with three different ideas for a home theater system. They are very similar accept for a few things. Which would you guys recommend or what would u change?


My first thoughts were

4 Rti4

csi5

Onyko 605 receiver

Polk Audio PSW 505 - subwoofer

4 Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands


then i came up with these two( they are similar accept for the rears)


package 2


2Rti8

csi3

2rti6(rear)

Onyko 605 receiver

BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer

two Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands


package 3


2rti8

csi3

2fxi3(rear)

Onyko 605 receiver

BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer

2 Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands


The fxi3s are titled as surround speakers. what is the difference between those and the rti6s?

All these packages are roughly the same price.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12434952
> 
> 
> okay now i have come up with three different ideas for a home theater system. They are very similar accept for a few things. Which would you guys recommend or what would u change?
> 
> 
> My first thoughts were
> 
> 4 Rti4
> 
> csi5
> 
> Onyko 605 receiver
> 
> Polk Audio PSW 505 - subwoofer
> 
> 4 Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands
> 
> 
> then i came up with these two( they are similar accept for the rears)
> 
> 
> package 2
> 
> 
> 2Rti8
> 
> csi3
> 
> 2rti6(rear)
> 
> Onyko 605 receiver
> 
> BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer
> 
> two Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands
> 
> 
> package 3
> 
> 
> 2rti8
> 
> csi3
> 
> 2fxi3(rear)
> 
> Onyko 605 receiver
> 
> BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer
> 
> 2 Sanus NF36 Speaker Stands
> 
> 
> The fxi3s are titled as surround speakers. what is the difference between those and the rti6s?
> 
> All these packages are roughly the same price.



Let's talk about the sub...the Polk 505 is being discontinued. It was a $550 sub for most of it's life. It's very capable. Now the Bic H100 is a budget sub that Dr. Hsu helped design. It performs way above it's price point. If I had to choose one sub over the other, I'd have to bring them both back in my house for a side by side. I've heard them both separately. But frankly, it might be the Polk. It wouldn't be at $550, but at $150 I wouldn't struggle with it. The other Bic subs you referenced, weren't designed by Hsu and I'd steer clear of. Of the other subs that Polk's is dqing the 404 is ok...the rest I'd avoid. The new DSW subs feature a version of room correction and are quite a bit better.


Of your options, I'd go RTi8s (I'm a fan), CSi5 (if you've got the space) and FXi3 (bipole-dipole instead of direct firing speaker, made to be wall mounted for a more diffuse sound). I'd also go with an HK247 vs a 605. It's not the lastest HDMI option, but I very much prefer the sound and it will work as a pre/pro.


----------



## gvenarchik

hey fellas,

i have whats probably a basic question..

will a blu ray player 'do justice' with music cd's?

do they play well, or better that my old (sony) cd player?

thanx

g


----------



## lawnranger

So you are saying go with fxi3 over the rti6. which do u think is better bipole or dipole setup? Will it make a difference if they are on stands? And if i eventually upgraded to 7.1 should i then get another pair of surround speakers, or should they be direct firing?


----------



## twg519




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/12434939
> 
> 
> No, you cannot hook those speakers up directly to the TV. You have to connect them to a receiver/amplifier of some kind. You just connect the wires from each speaker to the matching terminal on the back of the receiver, it's not that hard. The receiver manual should show you what needs to go where.



Thanks a lot, I know that must have sounded like a stupid question. Also, do I need any special types of connectors (banana plugs, etc.)? If so, what would you recommend?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12435680
> 
> 
> So you are saying go with fxi3 over the rti6. which do u think is better bipole or dipole setup? Will it make a difference if they are on stands? And if i eventually upgraded to 7.1 should i then get another pair of surround speakers, or should they be direct firing?



The Fx series will give you a more emersive soundfield for HT. It's not about which speaker is better. The Rti6s are very nice. In a 7.1 situation many favor the Fx's as side surrounds with monopoles (RTi4s or 6s) in the back. Now if you are a big multi-channel music lover (DTS concerts, DVD A and SACD) like I am, you will probably prefer monopoles as surrounds.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twg519* /forum/post/12436138
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot, I know that must have sounded like a stupid question. Also, do I need any special types of connectors (banana plugs, etc.)? If so, what would you recommend?



I used banana plugs on the ends of the speaker wire to connect to the receiver. On the speaker end I just used bare wire to the binding post. You could do bare wire on the receiver end as well but it makes it more difficult to hook everything up since the terminals are so close together.


----------



## lawnranger

Ron, about the hk 247 and onyko 605. i there a large difference in sound quality? And don't u think having a receiver that can process the TrueHD and DTS-HD should be prioritized? and my next question is although the hk may sound better, would it still sound better if u were watching a dvd that was in TrueHD, or DTS-HD with an HD dvd player that can decode these formats?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12436462
> 
> 
> Ron, about the hk 247 and onyko 605. i there a large difference in sound quality? And don't u think having a receiver that can process the TrueHD and DTS-HD should be prioritized? and my next question is although the hk may sound better, would it still sound better if u were watching a dvd that was in TrueHD, or DTS-HD with an HD dvd player that can decode these formats?



I'm really not the right guy to ask. I handle lossless via analog and haven't dipped into the HD format wars yet. There's a 247/347 thread on Amps and Receivers...I'm sure the question has been asked and answered there. The SQ differences between Onk and HK are major to my ears, but maybe not to yours. HKs to me, offer better separation, dynamics and punch with a warmer presentation...a good thing...coupled with Polks. The Onk I owned a few years ago was clean, but sounded compressed. This is a subjective area. Take my opinion under advisement, but chose based on what makes the most sense to you. The 605 will do the job and it will sound great. I like HKs based on my experience, there are plenty that feel otherwise.


----------



## lawnranger

ron how about the onyko 705? would u still prefer the hk 247?


----------



## lawnranger

perhaps any yamaha u would recomend?


----------



## lawnranger

hey Ron. would you go with a DSW-PRO400 8" 180-Watt Pro over the 505? there really isn't reviews out for the DSW yet so i don't know what to think


----------



## Ron Temple

lawnranger answers...


I like the 705 because it can work as a preamp/processor. The 604 can't. It's a step up and I haven't heard it.


Yamaha's are well respected and disliked...I have no opinions.


Polk's new DSW subs are getting some buzz from those that have heard them for better musicality and room correction at a decent price. I've gone through quite a few subs in the last 3 years. My advice is to get the best and most powerful sub you can afford based on advice you receive here or on the Sub forum. You won't be able to listen to the better performing subs. You'll need to trust opinions. My earlier advice about the 505 stands, you won't find a better sub for the price you quoted. If you're going to spend $350 shipped, before Xmas, there's only one I'd recommend, the eD A2-300(price is going up). When you get to the $5-700 area, there are several options...all of which will smoke anything you can buy in a store. A capable sub will make an entry level HT setup sound fantastic. It's the most dramatic( not the best) piece of the puzzle.


----------



## lawnranger

i was looking at that DSW because i can get that for about 200. Thanks for answering all my questions so far. i got into this build your own home theatre deal about 6 days ago. So far I've learned tons


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12441399
> 
> 
> i was looking at that DSW because i can get that for about 200. Thanks for answering all my questions so far. i got into this build your own home theatre deal about 6 days ago. So far I've learned tons



No problem...I'm sure the little Polk will fill in the bass for music extremely well. It won't extend deep enough to give you the visceral impact of the 505 or Bic H100. Neither of which can touch the Elemental Designs sub. The DSW subs don't have any reviews I've seen. My info is word of mouth from Polk reps whom I trust.


----------



## emersite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12429857
> 
> 
> emersite, sorry I'm jumping in late...for a start, yes, set the sub up manually, all speakers to small, crossover at 80hz all around. Use the SPL meter to match your sub to the mains @ 75dbs. This will mean the sub is calibrated 2-3 dbs hotter than the other speakers due to the meter's inaccuracy down low. Make sure you are using digital sources and that they are set to bitstream (or DD/DTS). Throw in a movie with heavy bass and tell us how it sounds. It should improve your bass performance. Sometimes Audessey and other EQs does strange stuff with the sub and speaker settings, but if it's not working properly, start over manually.



Ron, you don't have to be sorry about anything. Thank you for helping!


I am beginning to think I might have a problem with the BIC or with the Onkyo 605. I have calibrated as per the instructions. I adjusted all chanels for a reading of 75db on the SPL and ended up with a range between -4db and +2db for the speakers. The Bic is the one at -4db. Observation: to get to this range I had to initially set the general volume on the receiver at 75 (when I started at volume 50, the levels were getting to +8db, which I thought was too much - so I raised the volume).


I put Apocalypto on the DVD player. I set the volume on the receiver to 45, which was enough to have good sound. As I watched the DVD, I thought the Bic was on. However, in the middle of the movie I checked and the Bic was off - red led. I raised the volume and the Bic turned on. My reading is that the signal coming from the 605 is not enough to excite the Bic. Unless it is normal for the subwoofer to turn on only during the parts of the movie that it is really needed.


I haven't yet felt that visceral impact that you just mentioned in the previous post. Do you think I have a problem, or is it still my inexperience and there is something else I should do?


Thank you,

Emerson


----------



## Ron Temple

First, how are you hooking the DVD player to the AVR, I assume digital coax or optical. Is the DVD player set to output bitstream or DD/DTS in it's audio menu? If the AVR shows DD or DTS, then yes you are...but make sure.


Second, you can pickup a cheap y cable 1f/2m and connect to both inputs into the sub...this should give the signal a 3db input boost and won't hurt anything.


Third, you can keep the sub On, instead of Auto. It won't hurt the sub either. Nothing wrong with running a bit hot. I wouldn't recommend going more than 5dbs above the mains, but some do.


I think what we need to do is to get this sub outputting to levels you're looking for, then we can fine tune it from there.


Last, what's your room size...if it's huge, the Bic is probably not enough sub.


----------



## emersite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12454979
> 
> 
> First, how are you hooking the DVD player to the AVR, I assume digital coax or optical. Is the DVD player set to output bitstream or DD/DTS in it's audio menu? If the AVR shows DD or DTS, then yes you are...but make sure.
> 
> 
> Second, you can pickup a cheap y cable 1f/2m and connect to both inputs into the sub...this should give the signal a 3db input boost and won't hurt anything.
> 
> 
> Third, you can keep the sub On, instead of Auto. It won't hurt the sub either. Nothing wrong with running a bit hot. I wouldn't recommend going more than 5dbs above the mains, but some do.
> 
> 
> I think what we need to do is to get this sub outputting to levels you're looking for, then we can fine tune it from there.
> 
> 
> Last, what's your room size...if it's huge, the Bic is probably not enough sub.



Ron,


I am hooking the DVD player to the AVR with an HDMI cable. The AVR shows DD, so I guess the setting is right.


I do have a Y cable. Where exactly should I connect it?


I could keep the BIC On, but I wonder if the standby function has a problem on my Bic because it requires a high volume to trigger it. When you say no more than 5dbs you are talking about the AVR level, not the SPL meter, right?


My room is 16x10 with one side opened to the kitchen. The sub is in the corner on the opposite side of the opened wall. The listening position is 8 feet from the TV.


Thank you again, Ron.

Emerson


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12455826
> 
> 
> Ron,
> 
> 
> I am hooking the DVD player to the AVR with an HDMI cable. The AVR shows DD, so I guess the setting is right.



Yep



> Quote:
> I do have a Y cable. Where exactly should I connect it?



Both L & R inputs...if the sub doesn't have both, then it won't work.



> Quote:
> I could keep the BIC On, but I wonder if the standby function has a problem on my Bic because it requires a high volume to trigger it. When you say no more than 5dbs you are talking about the AVR level, not the SPL meter, right?



I mean that if you've calibrated your speakers to 75dbs, then set the sub to 78dbs by raising the channel trim on the AVR. The SPL meter isn't accurate at the very bottom, so there is a 2-3db offset. Calibrating a sub flat will be 2-3dbs below the other speakers.



> Quote:
> My room is 16x10 with one side opened to the kitchen. The sub is in the corner on the opposite side of the opened wall. The listening position is 8 feet from the TV.
> 
> 
> Thank you again, Ron.
> 
> Emerson



You should have plenty of sub then. Check to see if one of the other advanced settings on the AVR has been engaged...it might be called Night Mode or DNR (should be off) or a separate LFE scale...Yammies and Denon have them...normally it goes from negative to 0...you want 0 or no attenuation.


Then you should put on a bass heavy demo and let her rip. If you're not getting a Wow factor, then you are either expecting too much (not likely) or something is wrong with the AVR, cable or sub.


Try it and report back.


----------



## evan_s

Another possibility is turning the volume down on the sub it's self and turn in the sub up in the receiver. If you do this properly you could have he same 75db on the spl meter with a higher output voltage from the amp to help ensure the sub is probably sensing and turning on.


On the other hand it is possible depending on the movie and your cross over points etc that the sub had just turned off because there hadn't been any sounds it needed to play for a while. That can happen with periods of dialogue etc.


----------



## lawnranger

hey Ron, and or anyone who might know. how are the elemental design speakers, like there a6-6t6 tower, and there a6-5t5? I was looking into these because of the elemental design sub you mentioned for $350


----------



## emersite

Ron, the Y cable I have has 1 RCA on one side and 2 RCAs on the other. It won't work because the BIC has 1 RCA input only. If I wanted to use the L and R inputs on the BIC, I would have to use regular speaker cables and not RCAs. The Onkyo 605 does not have subwoofer OUT other than the 1 RCA.


Evan, I did what you said. I calibrated with the knob on the BIC itself at 2. With the master volume at 75, I calibrated all speakers to 75db on the SPL. With this, I got a range from -2db to +2db. The sub channel was at 0db, but I increased to +1db just in case.


I watched movies with the master volume at 50 (Apocalypto and Shrek 2). I still do not have the WOW factor with the BIC. I believe I do not have great expectations because my previous home theater was an LG that I paid $150 for and that had a small unpowered subwoofer.


That means I indeed might have a problem with the Onkyo 605, the cable, or the BIC. What process can I follow to discover which one is defective?


Thanks once again for helping me!

Emerson



P.S. When I calibrate the Sub channel, the reading on the SPL oscillates a lot. Not like the other speakers, which oscillate between 74db and 75db. For the Sub, the reading fluctuates between 72db and 80db. Is this normal? Also, during calibration, the sound generated for the other speakers is a loud "shsh", while for the Sub the sound is more like a humming. The humming seems to be not as loud as the other sound, but still the reading is around 75db. Normal as well?


----------



## Ron Temple

Set the SPL meter to C weighted and Slow...the wobble should only be a couple of dbs.


It might be you cable, but if you're calibrated close, you should really be getting some decent LFE.


Try the Darla scene from Finding Nemo, Master and Commander's opening battle or really go for it with War of the Worlds pod emergence scene. If you're not impressed, then something is definitely wrong.


Report back.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12465020
> 
> 
> hey Ron, and or anyone who might know. how are the elemental design speakers, like there a6-6t6 tower, and there a6-5t5? I was looking into these because of the elemental design sub you mentioned for $350



Can't really say...probably on par or better than the Polk Rs. I think there's a thread or 2 on them on Speakers.


----------



## ras1325

Got my setup so far and I'm loving it:


HK AVR 247

Polk Rti8s front

Rti4 rear

Csi3 Center


Any recommendations for a good matching sub?


----------



## Tulpa

What's your budget?


For the under $250 shipped club, the Bic H-100 is a perennial favorite, as is the AV123 X-Sub. If you can go a little higher, Elemental Designs have some excellent subs (although they won't win a beauty contest.)


----------



## BACONlover

what's your budget and room size? listening preference? use mostly for HT or music? these would be helpful for giving you suitable choices for subs.


----------



## cyberdentist

Guys, I am thinking of getting SR605 or DG910 receivers. Which of the following speaker systems would you guys suggest:


Harmon HKTS-18

JBL CS480BG

Sony SA-FTH1

Polk RM6750


Any help appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## ras1325

I'd like to keep it around $250. I use the system mainly for HT and gaming, but also play music regularly. The room isn't big, about 12x12 so I don't want anything overpowering. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12466608
> 
> 
> Ron, the Y cable I have has 1 RCA on one side and 2 RCAs on the other. It won't work because the BIC has 1 RCA input only. If I wanted to use the L and R inputs on the BIC, I would have to use regular speaker cables and not RCAs. The Onkyo 605 does not have subwoofer OUT other than the 1 RCA.
> 
> 
> Evan, I did what you said. I calibrated with the knob on the BIC itself at 2. With the master volume at 75, I calibrated all speakers to 75db on the SPL. With this, I got a range from -2db to +2db. The sub channel was at 0db, but I increased to +1db just in case.
> 
> 
> I watched movies with the master volume at 50 (Apocalypto and Shrek 2). I still do not have the WOW factor with the BIC. I believe I do not have great expectations because my previous home theater was an LG that I paid $150 for and that had a small unpowered subwoofer.
> 
> 
> That means I indeed might have a problem with the Onkyo 605, the cable, or the BIC. What process can I follow to discover which one is defective?
> 
> 
> Thanks once again for helping me!
> 
> Emerson
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. When I calibrate the Sub channel, the reading on the SPL oscillates a lot. Not like the other speakers, which oscillate between 74db and 75db. For the Sub, the reading fluctuates between 72db and 80db. Is this normal? Also, during calibration, the sound generated for the other speakers is a loud "shsh", while for the Sub the sound is more like a humming. The humming seems to be not as loud as the other sound, but still the reading is around 75db. Normal as well?



Emerson,


Just thought I'd mention a possible reason you could be feeling somewhat underwhelmed with your bass experience with the Bic H-100. I, too, have gone through subwoofer upgrades, from a Sony HTIB subwoofer, to a Velodyne VX-10, to an Infinity PS212 to an SVS PB10-NSD. It's easy to be somewhat disappointed, because you might be expecting to have ground-shaking, feel-it-in-your-chest bass all of the time, but in reality, many DVDs aren't mastered with an incessant barrage of LFE. My guess is that your cheap LG subwoofer (like my crappy Sony I had) was very boomy and played loud, muddy bass in the 50-100hz region, augmenting it far beyond how it was originally recorded. This might sound impressive to an untrained ear, but it's simply bloated midbass and doesn't truly represent the recording. When you move up to a better subwoofer, many times the bass will becomes less pronounced. As a better subwoofer can reproduce bass more accurately, it gets less boomy and loose, and becomes much more balanced across the bass spectrum (and with the rest of the speakers, too). You might just be experiencing the "loss" of excess bass you were used to hearing. Of course, I could be totally wrong, too, but I just remember the initial disappointment when I've upgraded subs, as I was expecting to be completely blown away by powerful bass, but instead was treated to accurate bass that was powerful when needed, yet more accurate, meaningful, and listenable as a whole. Just a thought. Keep experimenting, though. That Bic should do a great job for you once you get accustomed to it. Indeed it is possible that something is defective, too, because unless you're sitting in a huge bass null, you should be getting great bass with the Bic.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lalakersfan34* /forum/post/12486526
> 
> 
> Emerson,
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd mention a possible reason you could be feeling somewhat underwhelmed with your bass experience with the Bic H-100. I, too, have gone through subwoofer upgrades, from a Sony HTIB subwoofer, to a Velodyne VX-10, to an Infinity PS212 to an SVS PB10-NSD. It's easy to be somewhat disappointed, because you might be expecting to have ground-shaking, feel-it-in-your-chest bass all of the time, but in reality, many DVDs aren't mastered with an incessant barrage of LFE. My guess is that your cheap LG subwoofer (like my crappy Sony I had) was very boomy and played loud, muddy bass in the 50-100hz region, augmenting it far beyond how it was originally recorded. This might sound impressive to an untrained ear, but it's simply bloated midbass and doesn't truly represent the recording. When you move up to a better subwoofer, many times the bass will becomes less pronounced. As a better subwoofer can reproduce bass more accurately, it gets less boomy and loose, and becomes much more balanced across the bass spectrum (and with the rest of the speakers, too). You might just be experiencing the "loss" of excess bass you were used to hearing. Of course, I could be totally wrong, too, but I just remember the initial disappointment when I've upgraded subs, as I was expecting to be completely blown away by powerful bass, but instead was treated to accurate bass that was powerful when needed, yet more accurate, meaningful, and listenable as a whole. Just a thought. Keep experimenting, though. That Bic should do a great job for you once you get accustomed to it. Indeed it is possible that something is defective, too, because unless you're sitting in a huge bass null, you should be getting great bass with the Bic.



Good comments...


----------



## emersite

lalakersfan34,


I think you are right. Following Ron's suggestion, I tried Master and Commander's initial scene and the Darla scene on Nemo. If I have the Master volume at 75, which is the level I used to calibrate the speakers @ 75db, my living room shakes and my sofa vibrates. So, the power is there.


When I watch the mentioned scenes on a normal level, a lower master volume of 50-60, I still can feel the bass very well. As you said lalakersfan34, the sound is well distributed across all speakers and the sound coming from the BIC is harmonically integrated, making it for an enjoyable experience.


I guess what I was expecting to hear was a pounding and boomy sound, which of course is not the objective of having a good sub. As you also said, the bass should be accurate, meaningful, and listenable as a whole. That's what I am having with the BIC. Ron, so you were also right when you said that maybe I was expecting too much. I was not exactly expecting too much, but expecting the wrong thing.


As for the on/off sensing, what solved the problem was to calibrate the BIC with its own volume at 2-3. That forced the AVR to +1 or +2db (versus -5db before) and now I don't have the problem anymore.


Thank you very much!!

Emerson


----------



## JRW160

I just ordered the mission m70's and the m7c1i for ~$300. I got the onkyo 505 for $125 shipped. Now I just have to pick out a sub and get it ordered.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12495281
> 
> 
> lalakersfan34,
> 
> 
> I think you are right. Following Ron's suggestion, I tried Master and Commander's initial scene and the Darla scene on Nemo. If I have the Master volume at 75, which is the level I used to calibrate the speakers @ 75db, my living room shakes and my sofa vibrates. So, the power is there.
> 
> 
> When I watch the mentioned scenes on a normal level, a lower master volume of 50-60, I still can feel the bass very well. As you said lalakersfan34, the sound is well distributed across all speakers and the sound coming from the BIC is harmonically integrated, making it for an enjoyable experience.
> 
> 
> I guess what I was expecting to hear was a pounding and boomy sound, which of course is not the objective of having a good sub. As you also said, the bass should be accurate, meaningful, and listenable as a whole. That's what I am having with the BIC. Ron, so you were also right when you said that maybe I was expecting too much. I was not exactly expecting too much, but expecting the wrong thing.
> 
> 
> As for the on/off sensing, what solved the problem was to calibrate the BIC with its own volume at 2-3. That forced the AVR to +1 or +2db (versus -5db before) and now I don't have the problem anymore.
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!!
> 
> Emerson



Kudos to lalakersfan for mentioning it...his comments get repeated from time to time, but sometimes it's forgotten. Clean HT bass, doesn't sound like a car sub. There's no possible way to pressurize a large space like a car cab where the majority of the activitity is from 40-120hz. Sure you want the grinding bass of spectacular LFE with wind effects or vibration, but hopefully, it will be without the muddy upper bass boom.


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emersite* /forum/post/12495281
> 
> 
> lalakersfan34,
> 
> 
> I think you are right. Following Ron's suggestion, I tried Master and Commander's initial scene and the Darla scene on Nemo. If I have the Master volume at 75, which is the level I used to calibrate the speakers @ 75db, my living room shakes and my sofa vibrates. So, the power is there.
> 
> 
> When I watch the mentioned scenes on a normal level, a lower master volume of 50-60, I still can feel the bass very well. As you said lalakersfan34, the sound is well distributed across all speakers and the sound coming from the BIC is harmonically integrated, making it for an enjoyable experience.
> 
> 
> I guess what I was expecting to hear was a pounding and boomy sound, which of course is not the objective of having a good sub. As you also said, the bass should be accurate, meaningful, and listenable as a whole. That's what I am having with the BIC. Ron, so you were also right when you said that maybe I was expecting too much. I was not exactly expecting too much, but expecting the wrong thing.
> 
> 
> As for the on/off sensing, what solved the problem was to calibrate the BIC with its own volume at 2-3. That forced the AVR to +1 or +2db (versus -5db before) and now I don't have the problem anymore.
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!!
> 
> Emerson



Glad I could help. I just saw the symptoms you were describing and thought it sounded really familiar







. It's easy when getting a new sub (especially one with rave reviews like the Bic H-100 or in my case the SVS PB10-NSD) to expect insane, room-shaking bass all of the time. In other words, more of the same inaccurate, rumbly 50hz+ bass you're used to, but at much louder volumes. Instead, that bass that was completely overemphasized before is toned down to balance with everything else, while your sub can extend deeper and cleaner than before. Listen to some tracks (movies or music) with some deep, powerful bass with the LG sub and the Bic and notice how much deeper the Bic extends. There is tons of bass you were missing before, and I think you'll start to notice it here and there. Not to mention the fact that music will finally be enjoyable with the Bic...really cheap subs are just too boomy and make music really annoying IMO.


Regarding the auto-on, your experience is pretty common. It was a good idea to increase the subwoofer level on the receiver while reducing it on the subwoofer itself. This gives a more powerful signal from the receiver, making the subwoofer "notice" that it needs to be used much more easily. Hopefully that fixed your problem for good. If for some reason the sub is still occasionally late in kicking in, I'd just say to leave your subwoofer to an "always on" position, not "auto" (if your sub has one). It really doesn't consume much power at all if it's left "on", and that guarantees it's always "paying attention" so you never miss any bass. Sounds like you already fixed it, but again, if the problem comes up again, that's my recommendation.


Anyway, congrats on your new sub. Hope you thoroughly enjoy it!


Stephen


----------



## Derko

I wish to replace the sub that came with my onkyo system. I was looking at this Bic sub. It would come out to $175 shipped overnight. What about the Velodyne-VX10? Would that be a better choice?


Current set up is of the JBL Monitor for fronts and sorrounds, and JBL Voice for the center. My receiver is an Onkyo HT-R330.


----------



## jev7266




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberdentist* /forum/post/12482704
> 
> 
> Guys, I am thinking of getting SR605 or DG910 receivers. Which of the following speaker systems would you guys suggest:
> 
> 
> Harmon HKTS-18
> 
> JBL CS480BG
> 
> Sony SA-FTH1
> 
> Polk RM6750



Don't take this as expert advice because I'm no audiophile.


I bought the Onkyo SR605 and the Polk RM6750 system a couple of months ago and I'm totally satisfied. My a/v room is 16x20 and this combo fills it with great sound at 50-60% volume. The RM6750 sub is way more than adequate. The Onkyo AVR has all the features I'll ever need.


You can get some nice Atlantic speaker stands for the fronts/surrounds at Walmart.com for about $22/pair, and make sure you don't over-spend on wire/cables. I got decent oxygen-free 16 gauge wire and all the needed cables at Monoprice.com for cheap.


----------



## lawnranger

is there anything wrong with mixing brands? for example


a6-6t6 tower pair in front

a6-6t6 mtm (center)

fxi3 for surrounds

a2-300 sub


----------



## Tulpa

Not as long as the front three are matched for tonal purposes. And the surrounds to each other (but not necessarily to the fronts.) You should be fine with that set.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Would the 605+RM6750 be a better combo than the Samsung HT-AS720?


----------



## Ron Temple

Jeez...make this thread a sticky and it dies










Meryy Christmas everybody...










RT


----------



## Radly-1

No, I'm jumping in, but this audio stuff is making my head swim. I like getting value for my money and don't mind putting the time in to put together a quality home theater system. But I'm also a bottom feeder so bang for the buck is key. Just came on this thread and hope to learn alot.


tom


----------



## mozirry

I purchased a HK15 and Sony DGR510 surround system and the set sounds amazing.


The satellite speakers are OK but the subwoofer is absolutely amazing. Add in the fact that the thing is drop dead gorgeous sitting on the floor, it really adds to the wife-approval factor.


Big thumbs up for HK15 set and thumbs up for Sony DGR510 for providing flawless 5.1 audio with great features


----------



## indolent




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12439360
> 
> 
> the eD A2-300(price is going up).




Ron is this quote from early December still true? Do you know when, and by how much the price is going up on this sub?


----------



## samsurd2

Just go to the eD site yourself - the info is there.


----------



## Scot1459

I'm a NOOB and was ready to go with a HTIB, until I stumbled on this thread. The amount of advice has been very helpfull.


Here is the system I'm thinking of:


Onkyo 605

P50 for surround

P15 for fronts

P CSI

Bic H-100 sub


Only question I have is my HT is in a very long room (basement) so there is alot of room behind my chair, located in the middle.


I can not have the bookshelves for the surrounds, only floor or sats...so was going to use the P50s for surround, and the P15s for the front.


Any of the experts see a problem with this? Is the 605 too powerfull for the P15s? I do not want to have a lot of power that is being wasted. Because of the size of the room, I'm thinking of spending a bit more $ on the sub.


I appreicate any feedback.


----------



## sotaboy

I just received an A2-300. Only just hooked it up, so not reviewing the speaker. But I do have some problems with ED as a company. First, they charge your credit card immediately, even tho, in my case, it took a month for the speaker to ship. I've never ordered anything from anyone that billed you before it shipped. Second, with no documentation or users manual, it forces you to search the web for setup suggestions. Their code word 'User Integration' on their web site does not excuse the lack of information on receiving a speaker. A primary on setting it up should be included, like any other piece of electronics. On a side note, I've read the Polk article that suggests it better to run speaker wires from the AVR to the sub, and then to your front speakers. Does anyone have experience with this, and agree with this? Or should I parallel the the front speakers and the sub?


----------



## DethManX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sotaboy* /forum/post/12605943
> 
> 
> I just received an A2-300. Only just hooked it up, so not reviewing the speaker. But I do have some problems with ED as a company. First, they charge your credit card immediately, even tho, in my case, it took a month for the speaker to ship. I've never ordered anything from anyone that billed you before it shipped. Second, with no documentation or users manual, it forces you to search the web for setup suggestions. Their code word 'User Integration' on their web site does not excuse the lack of information on receiving a speaker. A primary on setting it up should be included, like any other piece of electronics. On a side note, I've read the Polk article that suggests it better to run speaker wires from the AVR to the sub, and then to your front speakers. Does anyone have experience with this, and agree with this? Or should I parallel the the front speakers and the sub?




If your reciever has it you want to use the subwoofer RCA out, should be a single RCA and just run that to the sub. If not the preferred method is to run your speaker wires to the sub then the front speakers. If you do the latter you'll also have to make sure you set the fronts to large and adjust the x-over on the sub.


----------



## DocWB

Hey guys, can you guys post up some speaker options for a 5.1 for me please. I looked at parts express and they only have about 4 or so options for satellites. I dont need anything ridiculous, its for my room, which is probably like a 10x14 or so. This is my first set up, so im not too concerned about the top model crap. I'll be using a Onkyo SR505. Budget is around 250....ish. Thats for speakers and sub. Thanks!


Oh and what do you guys think of the Dayton HTS-1200 as a first set up?


I'm pretty much looking for something like that, around $50-100 for the 5 piece. Thanks!


Edit: What do you guys think about the Polk Audio RM6750? How is the sub in the system?


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sotaboy* /forum/post/12605943
> 
> 
> I just received an A2-300. Only just hooked it up, so not reviewing the speaker. But I do have some problems with ED as a company. First, they charge your credit card immediately, even tho, in my case, it took a month for the speaker to ship. I've never ordered anything from anyone that billed you before it shipped. Second, with no documentation or users manual, it forces you to search the web for setup suggestions. Their code word 'User Integration' on their web site does not excuse the lack of information on receiving a speaker. A primary on setting it up should be included, like any other piece of electronics. On a side note, I've read the Polk article that suggests it better to run speaker wires from the AVR to the sub, and then to your front speakers. Does anyone have experience with this, and agree with this? Or should I parallel the the front speakers and the sub?



If you've got an issue with eD, you should take it up with them directly. I don't mean this comment as a flame. I base it on what I've read in the subwoofer thread which indicates they'll pretty much do what it takes to keep their customers happy. The eD guys read that thread, post there themselves and seem willing to answer general questions in the public forum. For customer related stuff, they encourage folks to email or call them. Those that have done this seem satisfied. For the sake of full disclosure, I have no interest in eD (other than lusting after one of their subs).


----------



## Scot1459




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DocWB* /forum/post/12609151
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: What do you guys think about the Polk Audio RM6750? How is the sub in the system?





I'm a newbie, but most reviews I've seen on the 6750 state that the sub is inadequate.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12609937
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DocWB* /forum/post/12609151
> 
> 
> Edit: What do you guys think about the Polk Audio RM6750? How is the sub in the system?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie, but most reviews I've seen on the 6750 state that the sub is inadequate.
Click to expand...


Yes, true, but RM6750 components are much better (sub included) than its $200-250 price. You can't really demand the BMW M5 performance on a Honda Civic budget, can you?


----------



## Scot1459

speaking of inadequate, I'm ready to make my first purchase from frys, but noticed that their internet store has a pretty poor repuation on the net for deliervery/orders, customer service, etc.


Anybody have any problems such as this?


----------



## DocWB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12609937
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie, but most reviews I've seen on the 6750 state that the sub is inadequate.



Oh ok, i guess i'll keep looking. I almost want to order the dayton 1200s and look for a sub. Why so many freaking options? Lol, i hate making decisions


----------



## sotaboy

Samsurd, I did call ED, and really got told ' That' the way we do business.' I don't agree with it, told them so, and just posted it so others know what they're dealing with. Especially if a sub has a longer build time. I like the sub, if i could just figure out where the 60 cycle hum is coming from, I'm sure the sub has nothing do do with it.


----------



## samsurd2

Bummer


----------



## DocWB

Anyone else with any ideas for a set up 5.1 speakers for a beginner system?? I want to get the ball rolling


----------



## DocWB

What do you guys think about the Infinity Total Solutions TSS-450??


----------



## samsurd2

See the attached spreadsheet; they are configurations I've been considering.

 

Speaker Matrix.pdf 12.798828125k . file


----------



## Damion83

Receiver:

Onkyo 505
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Receiver.html 


Speakers:

Polk R150 for fronts and surround
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 

Polk CSR for center
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG 


SUBWOOFER:

JBL Venue 10
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ue_Series.html 

or

Velodyne VX10
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nt_Firing.html 


Add some speaker wire and banana clips from monoprice and it's near $700 with shipping. Living in an apartment with neighbors = volume not as high as I'd like, would it still sound better than the Onkyo SR800?


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Damion83* /forum/post/12637736
> 
> 
> Receiver:
> 
> Onkyo 505
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Receiver.html
> 
> 
> Speakers:
> 
> Polk R150 for fronts and surround
> http://shop3.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> Polk CSR for center
> http://shop3.outpost.com/product/496...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> 
> SUBWOOFER:
> 
> JBL Venue 10
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ue_Series.html
> 
> or
> 
> Velodyne VX10
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nt_Firing.html
> 
> 
> Add some speaker wire and banana clips from monoprice and it's near $700 with shipping. Living in an apartment with neighbors = volume not as high as I'd like, would it still sound better than the Onkyo SR800?



Onkyo 505 has the same guts as the receiver in SR800, but you are gaining better speaker quality, which means better sound - at any volumes.


----------



## Florida_Gator

Damion83,


The 505 + sub + CSR + R150 package WILL sound better than the SR800. The SR800 was on my "short-list" when I was shopping, and it's pretty decent, but then I realized I could do much better by making my own system. I have the same setup you're considering, but instead of a pair of R150s for the front L and R, I went with R50s, and am SO glad I did. I have the R50s set as "large", and the rest "small" on the receiver, with a cross-over of 80hz (I have an 8" Polk sub). For the 10% total package price difference, I would recommend you swap the fronts to R50s (same source as the R150s).


Good luck,


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12639938
> 
> 
> Damion83,
> 
> 
> The 505 + sub + CSR + R150 package WILL sound better than the SR800. The SR800 was on my "short-list" when I was shopping, and it's pretty decent, but then I realized I could do much better by making my own system. I have the same setup you're considering, but instead of a pair of R150s for the front L and R, I went with R50s, and am SO glad I did. I have the R50s set as "large", and the rest "small" on the receiver, with a cross-over of 80hz (I have an 8" Polk sub). For the 10% total package price difference, I would recommend you swap the fronts to R50s (same source as the R150s).
> 
> 
> Good luck,



I think that is excellent advice.

He might also consider the csi3 center channel.


If you went cherry on the LRC that's a very nice upfront setup for 59.99x2 plus shipping and 129.99(same source as csi1 at thread top post) plus shipping.


Thats a really affordable deal imho.


I found the R50's on sale locally but had to drive to a few different fry's to get them, lol. Saved shipping costs and got them a bit quicker.


Add 4 r15s later on and pick a good sub for cheapish but impressive 7.1 surround. (At least that's my plan for the media room, lol)


----------



## Scot1459

deleted post.


----------



## black~cobra

Hi,


I am a new member and a noob for Home Theater technologies...










I'm posting for my father (a noob too for Home Theater !) and he want a new Home theater setup. He want a receiver and a 5.1 speaker set. At the beginning he was interested in a HTiB (Sony model davfx900w or davhdx900w) but then he decided to go custom... The Sony davfx900w was 799$ CAD.


So like I said, he want a receiver and a set of 5.1 speakers for 1000$ CAD. All suggestions are welcome.


I saw the H/K 347 receiver and the H/K HKTS-18 5.1 speaker set advertised here but they are just too much overpriced in Canada. The receiver is twice the price than in the USA. Amazon.com price 533$, a Quebec store 900+ $










Thank you very much.


----------



## grhughes

Guys,

My TV is in a small room (11X13) and it sets on a TV stand. I'm looking for the smallest surround sound system made and it would be nice to have a good sound as well. Any suggestions?


----------



## joeyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black~cobra* /forum/post/12648290
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I am a new member and a noob for Home Theater technologies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm posting for my father (a noob too for Home Theater !) and he want a new Home theater setup. He want a receiver and a 5.1 speaker set. At the beginning he was interested in a HTiB (Sony model davfx900w or davhdx900w) but then he decided to go custom... The Sony davfx900w was 799$ CAD.
> 
> 
> So like I said, he want a receiver and a set of 5.1 speakers for 1000$ CAD. All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> 
> I saw the H/K 347 receiver and the H/K HKTS-18 5.1 speaker set advertised here but they are just too much overpriced in Canada. The receiver is twice the price than in the USA. Amazon.com price 533$, a Quebec store 900+ $
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much.



isn't Fluance speakers from Canada? You can check them out, I have never heard them but quite a few people like them, do a search on Ebay for Fluance SX


----------



## v0yce

Just wanted to drop a thanks to all those who've contributed to this thread.


For Christmas I got a set of Polk R50s + CSR + R150s paired with a Sony STR-DG910 and I couldn't be happier.


Everything sounds really nice and clean, especially the dialog in movies, which was my biggest complaint with my previous HTIB.


And the cherry R50s are a very attractive speaker IMO. Before buying, I couldn't find any good pics of them and was a little concerned how they would look. But after getting them in, I am very happy to have them sitting up front. The enclosures are really nice looking and I have them with the grills off, as I think it looks really good with their all black hardware (as opposed to the more generic black cabs with silver on the CSR and R150s).


I basically bought this set-up based on the recommendations I've read on this forum, specifically this thread, so I had some reservations. But now that I have it set up, I have zero regrets. Easily worth the investment. And I have an ed A2-300 sub on the way, so hopefully that will really round out the entire package.


So anyway, thanks again to all. I'll try and take some pics of the room to share. Especially for those hesitant about the cherry R50s.


----------



## KPT

Just wanted to quickly post a big thank you to all the members that have helped me pick out my system. I went with:


Onkyo 605

Polk RTi4 fronts

Polk CSi3 center

Polk RM101 surrounds

Bic H-100


Based upon various posts here I ran Audessy(sp) then manually set all the x-overs to 80Hz and the overall sound is great. When making my final decisions I was a little concerned that the RM101's wouldn't cut it, but I'm please to say that they are a good choice for surrounds if you are space/size limited, as I was.


Thanks again to all.

Kevin


----------



## suburban




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12609937
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie, but most reviews I've seen on the 6750 state that the sub is inadequate.



new on this thread. just wanted to add my experience w/ the rm6750. i have a set running in my master bedroom paired w/ onkyo 605(have 2 of these, 1 in living room). i added a pair of old polks m series for back surrounds to complete 7.1. ran my L/R surround through the 50 watt rm6750 sub and added an old Velodyne CHT-10 sub on the sub pre-out. making it double sub for my master bedroom. i get excellent sounds, almost as good as my living room floor standing polks.

bottom line is... you can still have this 5.1 for under 200 bucks @ Fry's and add a complementary subwoofer for another 125 (@Fry's as well), and have a very expensive sounding system.


----------



## Konrad63

For the Onkyo TX-SR505 go to Shop Onkyo and join Club Onkyo. Login and check every weekday morning for a refurb comes with 1 year factory warranty.


Search Fleabay for "Harman Kardon 5.1 Home Cinema Theater Speaker System" It's the HKTS 14 5.1 speaker system in a box with a 200W sub. Same company as JBL. Buy from the HarmanAudio fleabay store it's the factory with factory warranty.


I just bought both of these for under $300 total. Sounds better than the RM6750 in my opinion.


I'm waiting on a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers also from the Harman fleabay store that I'll put in the front for 7.1.


----------



## ORPhD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Konrad63* /forum/post/12676124
> 
> 
> For the Onkyo TX-SR505 go to Shop Onkyo and join Club Onkyo. Login and check every weekday morning for a refurb comes with 1 year factory warranty.
> 
> 
> Search Fleabay for "Harman Kardon 5.1 Home Cinema Theater Speaker System" It's the HKTS 14 5.1 speaker system in a box with a 200W sub. Same company as JBL. Buy from the HarmanAudio fleabay store it's the factory with factory warranty.
> 
> 
> I just bought both of these for under $300 total. Sounds better than the RM6750 in my opinion.
> 
> 
> I'm waiting on a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers also from the Harman fleabay store that I'll put in the front for 7.1.



Wow, I haven't been following this thread for too long, but this is a great speaker suggestion. It's very affordable and has more stylish speakers than regular bookshelf ones (a must for WAF). Thanks.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v0yce* /forum/post/12655580
> 
> 
> Just wanted to drop a thanks to all those who've contributed to this thread.
> 
> 
> For Christmas I got a set of Polk R50s + CSR + R150s paired with a Sony STR-DG910 and I couldn't be happier.
> 
> 
> Everything sounds really nice and clean, especially the dialog in movies, which was my biggest complaint with my previous HTIB.
> 
> 
> And the cherry R50s are a very attractive speaker IMO. Before buying, I couldn't find any good pics of them and was a little concerned how they would look. But after getting them in, I am very happy to have them sitting up front. The enclosures are really nice looking and I have them with the grills off, as I think it looks really good with their all black hardware (as opposed to the more generic black cabs with silver on the CSR and R150s).
> 
> 
> I basically bought this set-up based on the recommendations I've read on this forum, specifically this thread, so I had some reservations. But now that I have it set up, I have zero regrets. Easily worth the investment. And I have an ed A2-300 sub on the way, so hopefully that will really round out the entire package.
> 
> 
> So anyway, thanks again to all. I'll try and take some pics of the room to share. Especially for those hesitant about the cherry R50s.



The r50's are drying up so I hate to bang the drum for them too much but everyone who comes over assumes they cost what the RTi9's do....

As fronts bi-amp'd they are very, very nice. And I haven't even used the Yamaha 6060-HTR's automated calibration yet to configure the sound.


If you live near a Fry's and they have the r50's in stock I'd definitely call to see if you can get them in store. Save a ton on shipping.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black~cobra* /forum/post/12648290
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I am a new member and a noob for Home Theater technologies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm posting for my father (a noob too for Home Theater !) and he want a new Home theater setup. He want a receiver and a 5.1 speaker set. At the beginning he was interested in a HTiB (Sony model davfx900w or davhdx900w) but then he decided to go custom... The Sony davfx900w was 799$ CAD.
> 
> 
> So like I said, he want a receiver and a set of 5.1 speakers for 1000$ CAD. All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> 
> I saw the H/K 347 receiver and the H/K HKTS-18 5.1 speaker set advertised here but they are just too much overpriced in Canada. The receiver is twice the price than in the USA. Amazon.com price 533$, a Quebec store 900+ $
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much.



As mentioned Fluance ships to Canada.
http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html 


With that 5.1 speaker setup you have enough budget for just about any mid-range HT receiver you'd like. Be it Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo/KH or whatever.


Get one with HMDI in/outs if you are using HD content.


I rather enjoy the yamaha htr-6060 but some do not like the yamaha "sound".


----------



## e46moder

A lot of good information and choices in this thread. I live in a new york city apartment and need a quality sounding setup for my bedroom. Its a very small room and i want to build a system. The room is only 112' x 15' and i was wondering if i should get a complete 5.1 system or only bother with the front speakers? Should i get a center speaker?

I figure i want to spend around $500 but not sure of the best setup for such a small sized area.


----------



## perryw

Starting with a 2.0 setup that I'll probably upgrade to a 3.1 (probably 2.1 first and then 3.1 later) setup over the coming months.. Would I be better off with the R50, R300, or the RTi4? Fry's had the R300's playing when I was there today and they sounded acceptable for the price. I have a gift card to Fry's, is there anything else there I should consider in the same pricing ballpark?


I'd lay the RTi4's on their sides on the shelf underneath the TV for now (they're a hair too tall to fit standing up). The floorstanders would obviously be on either side of the TV. When I get a center, I'd have to get stands for the RTi4's and put the center under the TV.


I'm thinking the RTi4's would leave me better off in the future if I decide to go for a 5.1 setup in that they could then be used for surrounds with nicer fronts, but maybe the floorstanders would be better if I stick with just 3.1?


The receiver is a hand-me-down Aiwa AV-D57 from my sister and brother-in-law. I believe it came from a HTIB setup they had, but they got a newer receiver from a friend and hooked that up to the speakers. The specs in the manual say it can do 70W/channel RMS. I'm in an apartment, so I'd never be exactly blasting anything.


----------



## suburban




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *e46moder* /forum/post/12683249
> 
> 
> A lot of good information and choices in this thread. I live in a new york city apartment and need a quality sounding setup for my bedroom. Its a very small room and i want to build a system. The room is only 112' x 15' and i was wondering if i should get a complete 5.1 system or only bother with the front speakers? Should i get a center speaker?
> 
> I figure i want to spend around $500 but not sure of the best setup for such a small sized area.



that's a quarter of a nyc block. i hope you meant 12'X15'... coz you'll need more than a 500 buck set up.


----------



## MimsFamily

Saw an open box Klipsch sub-10 at best buy for about $260. it retails for $399. I've been researching for a subwoofer for a week now and was leaning toward the bic h-100. A week ago I picked up an AVR-247 with best buy gift cards (I wanted the Sony dg910 but apparently it does not do audio through any of its 3 hdmi inputs when you hook up the hdmi out to a tv with dvi (handshake issue) -still don't get it since my avr-247 can do it). My my old sub that came with a sony htib dream (nightmare) system does not have the subwoofer input, just a place you stick two exposed wires, so its unusable right now. I plan to eventually upgrade all my HTIB satellites with maybe klipsch sats or might go with the polks for the front and two small sats for rear surround. A new sub is my priority right now since my Sony sub won't work and is dismal anyway. I don't listen to much music, just a lot of xbox 360, ps3 gaming, and watching tv and movies. Viewing distance from tv is not far but living room room is open to kitchen and dining. This is an awesome thread. All that to say, should I get the sub-10 over the bic h-100 for that price point?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/10308678
> 
> 
> Which Klipsch sub? The Sub 10 and 12 are pretty good, the older KSW line isn't. I've heard the Bic...it's extremely good for a $230 sub...probably as good as a $4-500 retail sub depending on the brand in the right sized room. I haven't heard the x-sub, but people I trust say it's very musical and performs above 30hz better than the Bic.
> 
> 
> To get back to your question, I've seen some Klipsch questions on the sub forum from people that can get the Sub12 for ~ $250, give or take. For that price, they should go for it for resale value alone. At close to retail, then it's not a close decision go with the BIC or x-sub.


----------



## chandra.hp

Hello everyone,


My apologies, but I have not taken the time to read the entire thread. There is just way too much information!


Based on the information I've read in about 10 or so pages in this thread, it looks like the recommended speakers for the front mains are the Athena AS1.2's, but has anyone been able to do a comparison between the HSU HB-1 speakers? The specs are similar and the horn tweeter sounds interesting. Is there any place I would be able to actually listen to these speakers? I'm also considering the Insignia's NS-B2111 at Best Buys.


I'm still using my old Kenwood HTB-505 HTIB and I'm looking to upgrade in small portions! The first portion being the front main speakers, then the center, then the receiver, and finally the surrounds. I will most likely just take whatever I purchase now and use them as by rear surrounds in the future after I get a new receiver.


My main key concern is being able to hear things clearly at off-axis seating locations.


Also... maybe i'm posting this in the wrong area, but with my current system... I get irritated after listening to it for more than 1 hour! Same thing happens in my car, but it does not happen when I'm listening to music on my computer via speakers or head phones!


----------



## k79miller

It am considering getting the Onkyo 505 receiver with the Polk R50's for the front speakers, the Polk R150 for the surround speakers and the Polk CSR for center speaker but I'm not not sure what subwoofer to get. My room is 20'X23'. Anyone got any advice? Also, what do you think of this speaker combination?


----------



## DocWB

Hey guys, whats a good alternative for the Polk R150s? I ordered a set from Fry's but they're on backorder and probably will be a while till i get them, so i was thinking i'll cancel the order and get something else. What are as good or better than the R150s that fall in the $50-100ish for the pair? They'll be used for fronts. Thanks.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k79miller* /forum/post/12715080
> 
> 
> It am considering getting the Onkyo 505 receiver with the Polk R50's for the front speakers, the Polk R150 for the surround speakers and the Polk CSR for center speaker but I'm not not sure what subwoofer to get. My room is 20'X23'. Anyone got any advice? Also, what do you think of this speaker combination?



I have that same speaker combination. I like them, they sound way better than my parents Sony HTIB, but I also haven't listened to many other speaker combinations to compare to. I went with the BIC H-100 sub. My room is approx 14 x 16 with some large openings, but there is plenty of bass, enough to shake the house and cause the neighbor to complain (I live in a side by side duplex). I wouldn't go with anythings less than the H-100, and for a sub bigger is usually better. How much are you willing to spend?


----------



## k79miller

I was wanting to keep it around $1000 or less. I just to a local guy that said to go with a complete Bose package, but the only problem with that is that it only has 3 speakers & has no room to expand so I'm not too crazy that idea.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MimsFamily* /forum/post/12699999
> 
> 
> Saw an open box Klipsch sub-10 at best buy for about $260. it retails for $399. I've been researching for a subwoofer for a week now and was leaning toward the bic h-100. A week ago I picked up an AVR-247 with best buy gift cards (I wanted the Sony dg910 but apparently it does not do audio through any of its 3 hdmi inputs when you hook up the hdmi out to a tv with dvi (handshake issue) -still don't get it since my avr-247 can do it). My my old sub that came with a sony htib dream (nightmare) system does not have the subwoofer input, just a place you stick two exposed wires, so its unusable right now. I plan to eventually upgrade all my HTIB satellites with maybe klipsch sats or might go with the polks for the front and two small sats for rear surround. A new sub is my priority right now since my Sony sub won't work and is dismal anyway. I don't listen to much music, just a lot of xbox 360, ps3 gaming, and watching tv and movies. Viewing distance from tv is not far but living room room is open to kitchen and dining. This is an awesome thread. All that to say, should I get the sub-10 over the bic h-100 for that price point?



The Sub 10 is a decent sub. It hits hard if not truly deep. $260 is a tough number. I've heard both the Bic and the Sub 10, not in the same year, so memory really can't declare a winner. The price being fairly equal, it's a pick'em decision...


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Can anyone speak more about the Dayton 1200 setup and maybe compare them to something like the Insignia's everyone gets a bestbuy when they are on sale?


----------



## k79miller

After hours of research I have decided on one of these 3 different sets of Polk speakers:


1.) front R50 $163 pr

surround R150 $110 pr Total $273


2.) front RTi8 $167 single

surround RTi4 $211 pr Total $545


3.) front Monitor 50 $124 single

surround Monitor 30 $150 pr. Total $398


I need some advice on which set to buy. Also, which center speaker would go good with these sets? I appreciate all of the advice that I can get.


----------



## Scot1459

I ordered the Polk 50s from Frys.com a week ago, and they still haven't shipped. Is this normal for this outfit?


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k79miller* /forum/post/12743642
> 
> 
> After hours of research I have decided on one of these 3 different sets of Polk speakers:
> 
> 
> 1.) front R50 $163 pr
> 
> surround R150 $110 pr Total $273
> 
> 
> 2.) front RTi8 $167 single
> 
> surround RTi4 $211 pr Total $545
> 
> 
> 3.) front Monitor 50 $124 single
> 
> surround Monitor 30 $150 pr. Total $398
> 
> 
> I need some advice on which set to buy. Also, which center speaker would go good with these sets? I appreciate all of the advice that I can get.



If this setup will be used heavily for music, I'd go with #2. For HT, #1 is great. BTW, I've seen better prices around...


For setup #1, I'd go with the CSR for the center. It's voice-matched to Polk's R series. That's my setup: R50s, CSR, and R150s rear. I have an 8" Polk sub, which is sufficient for my smallish (14x14) room (also using the Onkyo 505). For just a tad more than the "good" HTiB setups, I have a system that is MUCH better. We are VERY happy with it all, especially the price/performance ratio!


For setup #2, I'd go with the CSi3 or CSi5 for the center. It's voice-matched to Polk's RTi series.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12744051
> 
> 
> I ordered the Polk 50s from Frys.com a week ago, and they still haven't shipped. Is this normal for this outfit?



Give them a call -- took a couple days for my R50s to ship from them a few months ago.


----------



## DocWB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12744051
> 
> 
> I ordered the Polk 50s from Frys.com a week ago, and they still haven't shipped. Is this normal for this outfit?



I dont know if you read the availablilty when you ordered them or not, but it says on their site that its backordered. I was told that they get them once in a while, and then ship them all out for people who've ordered. Now when do they get them and how often? No one knows.


I've been waiting a little while too, almost 2 weeks, and i'm not thinking about canceling my order through them.


----------



## k79miller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12745461
> 
> 
> If this setup will be used heavily for music, I'd go with #2. For HT, #1 is great. BTW, I've seen better prices around...
> 
> 
> For setup #1, I'd go with the CSR for the center. It's voice-matched to Polk's R series. That's my setup: R50s, CSR, and R150s rear. I have an 8" Polk sub, which is sufficient for my smallish (14x14) room (also using the Onkyo 505). For just a tad more than the "good" HTiB setups, I have a system that is MUCH better. We are VERY happy with it all, especially the price/performance ratio!
> 
> 
> For setup #2, I'd go with the CSi3 or CSi5 for the center. It's voice-matched to Polk's RTi series.



The setup will be used for HT but I'm having trouble finding them in maching sets. So far the only way that I can find the R50's is in cherry and the R150's in black. Anyone got any suggestions how to find either set in the other color.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k79miller* /forum/post/12756396
> 
> 
> The setup will be used for HT but I'm having trouble finding them in maching sets. So far the only way that I can find the R50's is in cherry and the R150's in black. Anyone got any suggestions how to find either set in the other color.



Probably not. Polk is discontinuing them, so those have been the only ones I've seen available.


Maybe used ones are out there.


----------



## Radly-1

I''ll start off saying what a great thread this is and thanks to all those knowledgeable folks who are willing to answer questions. I have a triage question. I'm going to have to put together my improved HT surround system in stages. Right now I have a HTiB that consists of a Kenwood receiver and tiny Yamaha satellite speakers. I like it ok, but hope to do better. My question is this: what should I replace first to get the most immediate improvement. I'd like to keep the entire upgrade (however long it takes) at about $1,000. Fronts and center first, then sub, then AVR is how I'm thinking now but would like to get opinions.

thanks


tom


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Radly-1* /forum/post/12759180
> 
> 
> I''ll start off saying what a great thread this is and thanks to all those knowledgeable folks who are willing to answer questions. I have a triage question. I'm going to have to put together my improved HT surround system in stages. Right now I have a HTiB that consists of a Kenwood receiver and tiny Yamaha satellite speakers. I like it ok, but hope to do better. My question is this: what should I replace first to get the most immediate improvement. I'd like to keep the entire upgrade (however long it takes) at about $1,000. Fronts and center first, then sub, then AVR is how I'm thinking now but would like to get opinions.
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> tom



Depends on the capabilities of your receiver, and to a lesser extent, the quality/type of your speakers. Best bet would be to start by researching all the components, and start narrowing down what your $1000 system will consist of. That will help you prioritize your purchases. Won't do you any good to buy some new big fronts if your current receiver won't drive them, for example.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/12760639
> 
> 
> Depends on the capabilities of your receiver, and to a lesser extent, the quality/type of your speakers. Best bet would be to start by researching all the components, and start narrowing down what your $1000 system will consist of. That will help you prioritize your purchases. Won't do you any good to buy some new big fronts if your current receiver won't drive them, for example.



all good advice. in general, assuming the kenwood is a semi-decent receiver capable of modest power, the most immediate improvement will be realized by upgrading the front three speakers, and/or the subwoofer. a new AVR will help, particularly in adding new features or tweakability to your system, but the impact on overall SQ will be less.


for $1K, i would spend about $250 - $350 on nice, best of budget class L/C/R speakers. to make a quantum leap in performance, i would then look hard at the $350 - $450 subs from ED, SVS, or Hsu. subs like these will make you realize immediately what you've been missing all along. i would then try to find the best deal i could on a refurbished AVR for about $250. use your current surrounds for now, until you can upgrade those down the road.


that's just one take on it though, based on my own personal experience. there are many other options to consider.


----------



## bigle

where is the best place to get the bic h-100 sub. it looks like overstock.com has them for $280 shipped. ebay has them for about the same with a best offer option. does anybody know what type of offer they have been accepting?


i'm asking because i'm trying to put together a setup for a friend of mine with a budget of $600 shipped (5 speakers, sub, and avr). it will be mostly ht so my order of importance is sub, center, avr, mains, surround.


if i can't squeeze the bic into the budget i'll probably have him go with the velodyne vx-10 for $160 shipped.


----------



## onebxr

on ebay, offer them 200 and they will accept. Your total price will be about 240 shipped. Good luck.

-Rich


----------



## OsuJoe

I have R-150's for my fronts. R-15 for my surronds and the Bic H-100 sub. My question is what should I do for a center!

I went well below my budget on my fronts and Surrounds. I got the R-150's open box from Fry's for $45 per and the R-15's for $20 per pair. I am powering all this with a Yamaha RX-V661BL because I have a friend who can get me a new one with a good discount.

I am willing to spend upwards of $300 dollars on my center channel ( I have $200 dollars in gift cards for CC) And they offer the CSM, CS1, CS2. My question is should I go with one of these or should I go with one of the other version that is sold at the other stores. The csi3 or the csi5? Also I haven't pulled the trigger on the receiver but haven't heard anything bad about it yet if someone has some positive and or negative feedback on that receiver I would like to hear it!

Also big thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I wanted to go this route for sometime but couldn't find the info I was looking for and nearly went the HTIB route because I didn't want to make a poor investment in a poor setup!


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OsuJoe* /forum/post/12767636
> 
> 
> I have R-150's for my fronts. R-15 for my surronds and the Bic H-100 sub. My question is what should I do for a center!
> 
> I went well below my budget on my fronts and Surrounds. I got the R-150's open box from Fry's for $45 per and the R-15's for $20 per pair. I am powering all this with a Yamaha RX-V661BL because I have a friend who can get me a new one with a good discount.
> 
> I am willing to spend upwards of $300 dollars on my center channel ( I have $200 dollars in gift cards for CC) And they offer the CSM, CS1, CS2. My question is should I go with one of these or should I go with one of the other version that is sold at the other stores. The csi3 or the csi5? Also I haven't pulled the trigger on the receiver but haven't heard anything bad about it yet if someone has some positive and or negative feedback on that receiver I would like to hear it!
> 
> Also big thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I wanted to go this route for sometime but couldn't find the info I was looking for and nearly went the HTIB route because I didn't want to make a poor investment in a poor setup!



According to Polk's website, the CSR center is the intended match for the R150s. OTOH, I recall reading that the CS1 (and possibly even the CS2) will also match. BTW, I notice that the CSM's impedance is 4 ohms (CSR, CS1, CS2 are 8 ohms) so be careful.


----------



## OsuJoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/12767891
> 
> 
> According to Polk's website, the CSR center is the intended match for the R150s. OTOH, I recall reading that the CS1 (and possibly even the CS2) will also match. BTW, I notice that the CSM's impedance is 4 ohms (CSR, CS1, CS2 are 8 ohms) so be careful.



Careful What do you mean? ;/


----------



## samsurd2

Just that you probably want an impedance match between all speakers in you set up.


----------



## vinipux77

Impedance actually doesn't have to match - receiver speaker level settings should be able to compensate for any volume differences that may result.


----------



## OsuJoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinipux77* /forum/post/12768403
> 
> 
> Impedance actually doesn't have to match - receiver speaker level settings should be able to compensate for any volume differences that may result.



So which center would you recommend? And any advice on the Yamaha RX-V661BL. Thanks for the input thus far!


----------



## Ron Temple

For those of you considering subs and want to go a bit bigger...stretching the budget category, I know, but it's a nice sub.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973971


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OsuJoe* /forum/post/12769093
> 
> 
> So which center would you recommend? And any advice on the Yamaha RX-V661BL. Thanks for the input thus far!



I would recommend the Polk CSR, since it's voice-matched to the R-series. I've seen it for under $100 at Frys online.


By the way, that Yamaha 661 is a really good receiver. It doesn't upconvert all its inputs (like the 861 does), but it's got plenty of power and features, and the pros at Sound Advice (Tweeter) near me really like them.


Good luck!


----------



## oxygendestroyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DocWB* /forum/post/12716398
> 
> 
> Hey guys, whats a good alternative for the Polk R150s? I ordered a set from Fry's but they're on backorder and probably will be a while till i get them, so i was thinking i'll cancel the order and get something else. What are as good or better than the R150s that fall in the $50-100ish for the pair? They'll be used for fronts. Thanks.



I'm in the same boat. One thing that makes me wait it out a bit longer.... if you click the RTI8's on the website, it says "sold out", but they are still taking orders on the R50's - that tells me they do monitor the stock for that vendor and expect to be able to fulfill the orders. I'm not hopeful of finding something else of that caliber in that price range so I'm gonna give them another week or so to see if they actually ship.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12769286
> 
> 
> For those of you considering subs and want to go a bit bigger...stretching the budget category, I know, but it's a nice sub.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973971



nice write up as always, ron. looks like a great addition to the $400 sub class.


----------



## MarkAELSU

Alright guys I have the Onkyo ht-s590 surround system, which has the ht-r340 receiver. Over Christmas I bought 2 polk r150's for surround, 2 polk r50's, and 1 center polk csr. The back of my sub, the bic h100 is confusing the hell out of me. Could anybody give me some tips as to what the settings are, how they set it up? As of right now I disconnected the old sub from the HTIB and hooked the wires into the Left section of the receiver out section, is this correct?


----------



## oxygendestroyer

UPDATE FOR THE WAITING FOR POLK PEOPLE.


From customer service today....

_4005092 POLK R50 this item is due in any time now ETA

was 1/08/08.

We are getting 318 of them.


4965491 POLK R150 same ETA 82 coming in.


4966251 POLK AUDIO CSR CENTER same ETA 48 of those._


----------



## Radly-1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/12763332
> 
> 
> all good advice. in general, assuming the kenwood is a semi-decent receiver capable of modest power, the most immediate improvement will be realized by upgrading the front three speakers, and/or the subwoofer. a new AVR will help, particularly in adding new features or tweakability to your system, but the impact on overall SQ will be less.
> 
> 
> for $1K, i would spend about $250 - $350 on nice, best of budget class L/C/R speakers. to make a quantum leap in performance, i would then look hard at the $350 - $450 subs from ED, SVS, or Hsu. subs like these will make you realize immediately what you've been missing all along. i would then try to find the best deal i could on a refurbished AVR for about $250. use your current surrounds for now, until you can upgrade those down the road.
> 
> 
> that's just one take on it though, based on my own personal experience. there are many other options to consider.



G-Star and Florida Gator,

Thanks for feedback. Just what I was looking for.

I'm new to this audio stuff but I think my recevier is fine for now. It's a Kenwood Vr-6050. The specs say 5 channels at 100 watts, does Digital Dolby, DTS, Pro Logic II. So I guess I can put my attention on speakers. Since the Polk R50s seem to be drying up any other suggestions for speakers in that price class. I've found myself experiencing mission creep and looking at much more expensive fronts, which goes against my ideal of best bank for my limited bucks









tom


----------



## lawnranger

hey guys. I'm about to pull the trigger.


Onyko tx-sr705

2 rti8s

csi5

a2 300

4 rti6s


this will be mainly for home theatre. do you think i'd be better off with fxi3s for my side surrounds, since this is mainly for home theatre. Or will i be able to notice a difference?


----------



## Scot1459




> Quote:
> UPDATE FOR THE WAITING FOR POLK PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> From customer service today....
> 
> 
> 4005092 POLK R50 this item is due in any time now ETA
> 
> was 1/08/08.
> 
> We are getting 318 of them.
> 
> 
> 4965491 POLK R150 same ETA 82 coming in.
> 
> 
> 4966251 POLK AUDIO CSR CENTER same ETA 48 of those.




what store?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scot1459* /forum/post/12798220
> 
> 
> what store?



Fry's Electronics I'm sure since they were the only one carrying these models.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12794354
> 
> 
> hey guys. I'm about to pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> Onyko tx-sr705
> 
> 2 rti8s
> 
> csi5
> 
> a2 300
> 
> 4 rti6s
> 
> 
> this will be mainly for home theatre. do you think i'd be better off with fxi3s for my side surrounds, since this is mainly for home theatre. Or will i be able to notice a difference?



It depends on price and your room. The FXi3s as side surrounds would be wonderful if you can place them, but so will the 6s. Great setup either way.


----------



## DocWB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oxygendestroyer* /forum/post/12783913
> 
> 
> UPDATE FOR THE WAITING FOR POLK PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> From customer service today....
> 
> _4005092 POLK R50 this item is due in any time now ETA
> 
> was 1/08/08.
> 
> We are getting 318 of them.
> 
> 
> 4965491 POLK R150 same ETA 82 coming in.
> 
> 
> 4966251 POLK AUDIO CSR CENTER same ETA 48 of those._



Well, this sounds like good news, but its been 6 days since that restock and my order still says back ordered










There must've been alot of people that have ordered the R150s before me huh


----------



## Radly-1

Some opinions please. I'm going beyond starter system and am heading this way. What do you think? Am focusing on 3.1 and will upgrade surrounds and avr later. Am auditioning the Aperions as soon as they make their way from Portland. Haven't heard the RTI8s but listened to some RTi10s in a store.


Sub: Bic H-100

Fronts: 1) Polk RTi8s for left and right and CSi3 center (or should I go to the CSi4)

2) Aperion 532 bookshelf for left and right and Intimus 533 center


As always your opinions are appreciated.


tom


----------



## lawnranger

thanks Ron. yeah i think placing the fxi3s might be difficult. The main couch is not centered in the room, so one fxi3 would be 3 feet from the wall it is facing, while the other would be 10 ft or so. not sure how that would work out.


----------



## r2iks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Radly-1* /forum/post/12810018
> 
> 
> Some opinions please. I'm going beyond starter system and am heading this way. What do you think? Am focusing on 3.1 and will upgrade surrounds and avr later. Am auditioning the Aperions as soon as they make their way from Portland. Haven't heard the RTI8s but listened to some RTi10s in a store.
> 
> 
> Sub: Bic H-100
> 
> Fronts: 1) Polk RTi8s for left and right and CSi3 center (or should I go to the CSi4)
> 
> 2) Aperion 532 bookshelf for left and right and Intimus 533 center
> 
> 
> As always your opinions are appreciated.
> 
> 
> tom



I am sure you will keep the Aperions. They sound better after about 50 hrs. Enjoy!


----------



## xristrettox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Radly-1* /forum/post/12810018
> 
> 
> Some opinions please. I'm going beyond starter system and am heading this way. What do you think? Am focusing on 3.1 and will upgrade surrounds and avr later. Am auditioning the Aperions as soon as they make their way from Portland. Haven't heard the RTI8s but listened to some RTi10s in a store.
> 
> 
> Sub: Bic H-100
> 
> Fronts: 1) Polk RTi8s for left and right and CSi3 center (or should I go to the CSi4)
> 
> 2) Aperion 532 bookshelf for left and right and Intimus 533 center
> 
> 
> As always your opinions are appreciated.
> 
> 
> tom



Can't speak for the Aperions, but go for the rti10's instead of the rti8. the 10's sound soooo much better, and for 400 a pair you can't go wrong.


----------



## junozz

I am glad to find this thread. Thanks, G-star!


I just bought Sony XBR4 and looking for home theater system.

I can't really put enough money on this because I already spent too much to buy the TV.


For speakers, I am thinking about getting polk R series. R50s, R150s, CSR.

(I never heard of them for myself, but heard a lot of good things about it on this forum.)


Question is what will be the best AVR and SUB for my system.

I read all this thread and I am still not so sure what's better for me.

I was thinking Onkyo or Harman Kardon. (Also, based on opinions on this forum.)


It will be mostly for HD contents(HD Movie, HD programs) from my HTPC(HP 8100e). My PC has HDMI output.

I also like listening to music with acoustic sounds like The Corrs or Norah Jones.


My budget is about $700~800.


If there're better speakers than polks for my situation, I'd like to hear.

My living room is 13x14 and open to the kitchen on left side.


One more thing, I'll be using the system for about 2~3 years and might be willing to upgrade at that time.



Thank you,

Juno


p.s. Please excuse my broken English. I am learning now.


----------



## bigle

i am helping a buddy put together his first surround system. using the advice from this forum he has already ordered the bic h-100 sub and the athena micra speaker package (compromise with the wife to get a big sub).


the problem now is the reciever must fit in a console with the dvd player and cable box. the shelfs are adjustable but evenly spaced there would be 5.5 inches of height available. the shelves could be shifted to fit an entry level onkyo but i am concerned about heat so i was thinking about the panny xr55. are there any other small form factor recievers or low heat recievers we should be considering in the $200 range? only requirements are at least 1 optical and 1 digital coax input.


thanks


----------



## ORPhD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigle* /forum/post/12831442
> 
> 
> are there any other small form factor recievers or low heat recievers we should be considering in the $200 range? only requirements are at least 1 optical and 1 digital coax input.



Excellent question and one I've been pondering myself. Heck, I'd be interested in 2 optical input systems (no coax) as well.


----------



## dwpjr

I have a very mis-matched system and need some help to determine what to buy next. My budget is about $100 right now. I am thinking that since my rears are the weakest link, replacing them with some Polk r150 for $60. My main question is how important is it that my center match the fronts? It seems that I would need to spend more than $100 to upgrade to a polk center that outperforms the JBL. I can get the Csi25 for about $80 or the CSR for about $90, but will either one of these sound as good/better than the center I now have? Which one of these is better? I have seen the Csi3 for $150, but that is out of my budget. My system consist of


Receiver = Harmon Kardon AVR-146

Center = JBL EC25

Fronts = Polk R50's

Rears = Pioneer S-HF21

Subs = BIC h-100


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ORPhD* /forum/post/12832450
> 
> 
> Excellent question and one I've been pondering myself. Heck, I'd be interested in 2 optical input systems (no coax) as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigle* /forum/post/12831442
> 
> 
> i was thinking about the panny xr55. are there any other small form factor recievers or low heat recievers we should be considering in the $200 range? only requirements are at least 1 optical and 1 digital coax input.
> 
> 
> thanks
Click to expand...


Other than the used/refurb Onkyo TX-LR552, XR55 is the only one I would consider ~$200. The Onkyo has 2 opt + 1 coax digital inputs.


----------



## junozz

I have a few more questions for you guys.


I read some reviews on polk R50 and some of them mentioned a good receiver is needed, because the speaker can't handle strong power? I don't quite understand what this means. What kind of receiver do I need not to blow the speaker at high volume?


Second question is this. I read sub is not necessarily needed in small room from most of reviews. How do you guys think about this?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *junozz* /forum/post/12849287
> 
> 
> I have a few more questions for you guys.
> 
> 
> I read some reviews on polk R50 and some of them mentioned a good receiver is needed, because the speaker can't handle strong power? I don't quite understand what this means. What kind of receiver do I need not to blow the speaker at high volume?
> 
> 
> Second question is this. I read sub is not necessarily needed in small room from most of reviews. How do you guys think about this?



The R50 is an excellent all round speaker in the entry level category. It's value/vs cost ratio is extremely high. It's not hard to drive and doesn't take a ton of power to get the most out of them. What you probably saw were some comments about how they sound when played very loud. If you really push them, they will sound a bit strained and slightly distorted. On low end receivers, to acheive this the amps are probably clipping anyway which can damage either the tweeters or the AVR, so it's not recommended. When I say loud, I'm talking over 105 dbs plus. I owned them for a year or two, never had any problems. My son has them now.


I'd recommend something from HK or Marantz as a great combination with Polks. They are warmer than Onks, Pios, Yammies or Denons, which is a great combination with Polks.


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dwpjr* /forum/post/12846226
> 
> 
> I have a very mis-matched system and need some help to determine what to buy next. My budget is about $100 right now. I am thinking that since my rears are the weakest link, replacing them with some Polk r150 for $60. My main question is how important is it that my center match the fronts? It seems that I would need to spend more than $100 to upgrade to a polk center that outperforms the JBL. I can get the Csi25 for about $80 or the CSR for about $90, but will either one of these sound as good/better than the center I now have? Which one of these is better? I have seen the Csi3 for $150, but that is out of my budget. My system consist of
> 
> 
> Receiver = Harmon Kardon AVR-146
> 
> Center = JBL EC25
> 
> Fronts = Polk R50's
> 
> Rears = Pioneer S-HF21
> 
> Subs = BIC h-100



I'd upgrade the center first so that it matches the fronts. The timber matching of the front 3 speakers is pretty important because it's not uncommon for sounds to move from one speaker to another across the front and if the speakers don't match the sound will change as it moves which is a very unnatural effect. For example someones voice might sound higher from the center speaker so it would sound funny moving from left to center to right as the actor moved across the screen. Most people would even recommend using no center over using a mismatched center.


It's not so much that you need a better center but one that would match the r50's. Either the CSi25 or CSR would be fine for that. Get which ever one fits your budget, looks etc best.


----------



## dwpjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evan_s* /forum/post/12850780
> 
> 
> I'd upgrade the center first so that it matches the fronts. The timber matching of the front 3 speakers is pretty important because it's not uncommon for sounds to move from one speaker to another across the front and if the speakers don't match the sound will change as it moves which is a very unnatural effect. For example someones voice might sound higher from the center speaker so it would sound funny moving from left to center to right as the actor moved across the screen. Most people would even recommend using no center over using a mismatched center.
> 
> 
> It's not so much that you need a better center but one that would match the r50's. Either the CSi25 or CSR would be fine for that. Get which ever one fits your budget, looks etc best.



Thanks for the reply. Does anyone know which of these centers match the r50's the best? Is one better than the other?


----------



## Tulpa

The CSR is the one Polk intends for the R series speakers, including the R50s.


But I've heard that other similar Polk centers will work, too. Not sure of the model.


----------



## synovia

First, I'd like to thank anyone who gives me their time, in advance. I've tried to read this thread, and I'm about 30 pages in, and my eyes are done...toast.



Heres my situation: I'm looking to spend about $500 max. Less would be better of course, but thats about my top range.


70/30 Movies/Music we'll say


Already Have:

TV: Vizio GV42LF

DVD Player: Pioneer progressive player, forget model (not at home this second)


Reciever:

Denon AVR-1802

Sub:

Acoustics Research (unknown model, have had 5+ years) 10" sub

Speakers:

Cheapo Sony Bookshelves (dome tweets, and 6"/5.25" IIRC mids)



My plan at this point would be to buy a Center, and fronts at this point, and use the sony's for the rears for the time being, and replace them in a little while (tax time maybe?).


I could either by floorstanders now, or buy bookshelves now, and move them to the rear and buy floorstanders in the future.



Any recommendations, based on $500 for Center, 2Front, 2 Rear?


Edit: Extra points for local, (boston metrowest) but if I have to order things online, thats not a big deal either.


----------



## junozz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12850353
> 
> 
> I'd recommend something from HK or Marantz as a great combination with Polks. They are warmer than Onks, Pios, Yammies or Denons, which is a great combination with Polks.



First of all, thank you for your reply and time. Can I ask you one more favor? Could you specify a model from HK or Marantz based on my situation? (it's in the upper post)


----------



## slenser

Fry's has the Polk R50's on sale for $59 ea + shipping right now. I love my set and will probably buy another set for surrounds. Not sure about the Center speaker. I still have to buy an new receiver that has surround!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *junozz* /forum/post/12858452
> 
> 
> First of all, thank you for your reply and time. Can I ask you one more favor? Could you specify a model from HK or Marantz based on my situation? (it's in the upper post)



If you don't need the latest HDMI solution, the HK245 or 7 is an excellent receiver. I'm not terribly familiar with the Marantz models, but the 400x is probably comparable to nearly anything that the other sell.


Accessories for Less sells the Marantz and it might be an even better solution than HK for sound quality, but it will be close. The real bargains are at HK Direct on ebay...bid on one of their daily 24 hour auctions on the AVR or your choice...you should be able to score a 2 or 3xx series AVR in the $2-300 range. Full 2 year warranty.


Onkyo is the flavor of the year on this and other forums because of the HDMI features they pack in. They are good receivers, but to me, the sound quality is a bit nasal and bright. Regardless of specs, HKs offer a lot more grunt and pair up with Polks extremely well.


----------



## junozz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/12862224
> 
> 
> If you don't need the latest HDMI solution, the HK245 or 7 is an excellent receiver.
> 
> 
> The real bargains are at HK Direct on ebay...bid on one of their daily 24 hour auctions on the AVR or your choice...you should be able to score a 2 or 3xx series AVR in the $2-300 range. Full 2 year warranty.



Thank you, Ron. I am really appreciated with your help. I did some researches on HK receiver you mentioned. I have more specific questions now.


1. I guess differences between 247 and 245 is "HDMI Audio and video processing". Will it be really necessary for me? Because I have Sony XBR4 and 247 only upconverts to 720p, then letting sony XBR upconvert is better?


2. I am also interested in 146, 147 model. And I noticed that differences between 14x and 24x is "5.1 vs 7.1" and "more audio decoding capability". I don't think I'll require "7.1" anytime soon within 2 years. Is the "more audio decoding capability" make big difference? I mean, new audio format makes *big* difference?


3. If it doesn't make huge difference, I might be okay with 14x. In that case 146's power will be enough? And Easy setting option of 147 is worth it?


4. Is account name "harmanaudio" on EBay "HK direct" you mentioned?


----------



## Kingcarcas

Are the Monitor 40s a nice bookshelf substitute for the R50s?? I'm pretty sure i'm already set on the Onkyo 605, less wires, less hassle plus i won't have to upgrade again for TrueHD or DTS-HD.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *junozz* /forum/post/12863365
> 
> 
> Thank you, Ron. I am really appreciated with your help. I did some researches on HK receiver you mentioned. I have more specific questions now.
> 
> 
> 1. I guess differences between 247 and 245 is "HDMI™ Audio and video processing". Will it be really necessary for me? Because I have Sony XBR4 and 247 only upconverts to 720p, then letting sony XBR upconvert is better?
> 
> 
> 2. I am also interested in 146, 147 model. And I noticed that differences between 14x and 24x is "5.1 vs 7.1" and "more audio decoding capability". I don't think I'll require "7.1" anytime soon within 2 years. Is the "more audio decoding capability" make big difference? I mean, new audio format makes *big* difference?
> 
> 
> 3. If it doesn't make huge difference, I might be okay with 14x. In that case 146's power will be enough? And Easy setting option of 147 is worth it?
> 
> 
> 4. Is account name "harmanaudio" on EBay "HK direct" you mentioned?



Since I don't use my HK to switch HDMI, but go direct, it's a non-issue. I believe the 2/347 are HDMI 1.2, the 245 is 1.1.


Go to ebay, search Harman Kardon receivers...you should get taken to a page with a bunch of auctions. Look for the HK Direct blue banner...click on one...then click on the HK store banner on that page. You can pull up a list of all the 24 hour auctions going. If you don't find the one you want, be patient and keep looking. Winning one isn't automatic either, but if you're patient and bid wisely you'll get a prize.


I've tried other ways to navigate to the HK Direct auction site, but the above method is how I can make it work.


----------



## kemitchell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *junozz* /forum/post/12863365
> 
> 
> 4. Is account name "harmanaudio" on EBay "HK direct" you mentioned?



Yes.


----------



## lawnranger

the csi5 is becoming very hard to get a hold of.


my system: 2 rti8s 4 rti6s, a2 300, Onyko 705, missing the center because i haven't be able to get a csi5 yet. Is the csi A6 also an option? Both speakers have two 6.5 inch mid woofers. i have heard that the csi A6 is a direct replacement for the csi5. is this true?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12866160
> 
> 
> the csi5 is becoming very hard to get a hold of.
> 
> 
> my system: 2 rti8s 4 rti6s, a2 300, Onyko 705, missing the center because i haven't be able to get a csi5 yet. Is the csi A6 also an option? Both speakers have two 6.5 inch mid woofers. i have heard that the csi A6 is a direct replacement for the csi5. is this true?



Yes


----------



## genovak

I have been looking hard at the Samsung HT-TX75 has anyone listen to it that could provide feedback? Any other suggestions?


----------



## buzzy_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigle* /forum/post/12831442
> 
> 
> the problem now is the reciever must fit in a console with the dvd player and cable box. the shelfs are adjustable but evenly spaced there would be 5.5 inches of height available. the shelves could be shifted to fit an entry level onkyo but i am concerned about heat so i was thinking about the panny xr55. are there any other small form factor recievers or low heat recievers we should be considering in the $200 range? only requirements are at least 1 optical and 1 digital coax input.
> 
> 
> thanks



The newer model, the XR57, is down to about $250 at Amazon, J&R, etc. It has a couple features that improve on the 55. And you can get it in black, if that matters. The XR55 is hard to find at this point anyway.


It's not much use at handling HDMI, though. 1 in, 1 out, won't pass through 1080p, only 1080i.


----------



## Citat3962

Polk R150s are back in stock at Frys/Outpost!!


I just ordered 4!


I'd just like to formally thank the OP for this thread and the discussion within!!


I'm replacing a Panasonic HTIB and a Jensen 27" CRT with:


Toshiba 42" 1080P LCD

Polk R50 x2

Polk CSR

Polk R150 x4

With about 150-200 to spend on a Sub


Still shopping for that sub but I'll get one soon along with a Yamaha 661 or an Onkyo 705 (refurb).


Feels good to finally have a sound system picked out I think I'll be happy with for a long while.


----------



## lawnranger

well i didn't know it would take 6-8 weeks for my a2-300 to come in. i was now thinking of canceling that order and going with a csx-15. i read Rontemple's review on that and it sounds good. the room it will be in is 2730 cubic feet. this won't be overkill will it?


----------



## synovia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citat3962* /forum/post/12908165
> 
> 
> Polk R150s are back in stock at Frys/Outpost!!



Really? They're showing up as sold out to me. I'm going to try to get a pair for surrounds at some point.



Just ordered a pair of Rti8s from Fry's at 170 each shipped, so I'm looking at this so far:


Receiver: Denon AVR-1802 (bout 5 years old)

Fronts: RTi8s ($340 total)

Center: Csi3 (going to pick up at Tweeter, $134 w/tax)

Surrounds: El-Cheapo Sony Bookshelves w/6" mid and 1" tweet

Sub: Acoustic Research 10" sub (bout 5 years old)



So I spent my $500 on the Rti8s and CSi3, and can upgrade the surrounds/sub in a while.


----------



## ORPhD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/12907677
> 
> 
> It's not much use at handling HDMI, though. 1 in, 1 out, won't pass through 1080p, only 1080i.



I'm certainly a relative newb when it comes to receivers, but this is an issue that has been puzzling me for a while. If a receiver is labeled as "HDMI passthrough" and is connected to the source ONLY using HDMI, it will output no audio at all (not even stereo or regular DD 5.1), right?


This seems so illogical and pointless (for example what would the benefit of a 1 in 1 out passthrough?), but I can't seem to find a counterexample.


----------



## evan_s

yes that would be the behavior. I also tend to consider it rather useless. The only benefit I can see is you can switch the video and audio just by switching inputs on your receiver and not have to control 2 devices to switch between hdmi devices. EG you don't have to switch the tv and receiver or hdmi switch and receiver. This of corse only really helps if you only use the 2 or 3 hdmi devices it supports otherwise you'd still need to switch your tv between hdmi and component or what ever your other devices use.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12908489
> 
> 
> well i didn't know it would take 6-8 weeks for my a2-300 to come in. i was now thinking of canceling that order and going with a csx-15. i read Rontemple's review on that and it sounds good. the room it will be in is 2730 cubic feet. this won't be overkill will it?



Not overkill at all. The CSX 15 is now running in my son's townhouse in an 1800cuft room...just right







. The Cadence has different design goals that the eD sub. The eD will extend further with power. I'd guess CSX will perform better above 30hz. I haven't heard the eD so I can't compare SQ. The CSX is clean.


----------



## crimson1566

Just started reading this thread. I have a 1K budget and would like a good surround sound system that is somewhat future proof for a little while. Anyone have any suggestions. I figured i'd ask as i began reading this massive thread. Thanks for any suggestions. My tv is a KDS60A3000. Blue ray is the PS3.


----------



## Radly-1

Thanks again to all who make this a successful thread. For what it's worth, I went this way. Sounds better and with more thunder than my Yamaha theater in a box speakers and sub. All the women in my house keep telling me to turn it down










Fronts: Polk R50s

Center: Polk CSi3

Subwoofer: Acoustech BIC H-100


rears: existing yamaha sats

receiver: existing Kenwood


tom


----------



## lawnranger

o my o my. what to do now. i canceled my order with ED because it would take 6-8 weeks. After canceling, i was forced to call them and ask them why my card had been charged when i was told that it wasn't. Apparently they had charged my card because they had a bunch of a2-300s made, and would be shipping them out with in 3 weeks. Well no bid deal right. I got my money credited back to my account and i was going to buy a csx-15. Well, just as i went to get a csx-15 they were sold out. I emailed Cadence and they replied to my email within 4 minutes saying it would be about 5 weeks. So there goes that. Now i think i am going to go with the pb10-nsd, which will cost a fair amount more. 429$ plus shipping. I really don't want to wait another month plus. I should be fine with a pb10-nsd. Ive never had anything near that good. My last sub was the Bose acoustimass modual.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12980199
> 
> 
> o my o my. what to do now. i canceled my order with ED because it would take 6-8 weeks. After canceling, i was forced to call them and ask them why my card had been charged when i was told that it wasn't. Apparently they had charged my card because they had a bunch of a2-300s made, and would be shipping them out with in 3 weeks. Well no bid deal right. I got my money credited back to my account and i was going to buy a csx-15. Well, just as i went to get a csx-15 they were sold out. I emailed Cadence and they replied to my email within 4 minutes saying it would be about 5 weeks. So there goes that. Now i think i am going to go with the pb10-nsd, which will cost a fair amount more. 429$ plus shipping. I really don't want to wait another month plus. I should be fine with a pb10-nsd. Ive never had anything near that good. My last sub was the Bose acoustimass modual.



I didn't make any comparisons in my review. The CSX15 is a nice product that competes with most retail offerings. The PB10 is an exceptional product in it's class and performs way above it's price point. If you can afford the toll and don't have a huge room, you're going to be very happy.


----------



## lawnranger

well yeah. my room is about 2750 cubic ft. i am sure the pb10 is great and will be plenty for me, however according to my reading its not the best bang for the buck. I guess that is the price i have to pay if i want a sub now. at that price i could get the a3-300


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12987002
> 
> 
> well yeah. my room is about 2750 cubic ft. i am sure the pb10 is great and will be plenty for me, however according to my reading its not the best bang for the buck. I guess that is the price i have to pay if i want a sub now. at that price i could get the a3-300



Even against the eD, I don't think you'd be disappointed. To get to the next level you've got to increase your budget to $6-700 shipped. Then you have several jaw dropping choices. One great thing about SVS subs is that you can flip them quickly and they retain much of their value. If you get the hankering for more down the road, you won't be out much.


----------



## lawnranger

yep. well i think i'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on the pb10-nsd today. but just to double check. would u agree that it is probably my best option right now, considering the csx-15 and a2-300 would both be a wait, or is there some other mystery sub i haven't heard about?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/12991205
> 
> 
> yep. well i think i'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on the pb10-nsd today. but just to double check. would u agree that it is probably my best option right now, considering the csx-15 and a2-300 would both be a wait, or is there some other mystery sub i haven't heard about?



No, I've heard the PB10 in a couple of places. I even compared it to my old 20-39+ side by side. You could hear the difference, but it was close in a moderate sized room. I've also heard it in a 5000 cube room and it did a very serviceable job. If I were buying a sub and price wasn't the most important factor, I'd take the SVS over either the eD A2 or CSX15. Once you get it, you'll understand why. The Hsu VTF2.3 might outgun it for a few bucks more, but then you're getting close to that $600 mark delivered...and that's a never ending stairway.


----------



## arachosia

Hi, I'm totally new to this home theater stuff, but I am desperate to get started building something for myself. Over the past several days I have been poring over forums and reviews and specs to get some idea what to buy, but I am starting to feel very overwhelmed. After reading Cnet's glowing review of the Onkyo HT-800, I decided I had to check it out in person and gave it a listen at CC. While I found the sound to be fairly impressive, it didn't exactly blow me away. I guess I was expecting a little more out of it. Despite that, I did come very close to purchasing it because a)it's very inexpensive, and b)it's still better than anything I've ever owned or heard (not counting my car stereo). Now I'm very tempted to instead pick up the Onkyo HT-990THX because it's definitely a big step up from the 800 and it's still pretty cheap ($680 at Vann's). I guess I'm willing to spend somewhere around $800-$1000 *if* I can build a system that would sound considerably better than the 990. And so I seek the advice of those who know a hell of a lot more about this than I.


To help you help me, I will try to describe what I am looking for.


-I would like to spend no more than $1,000 total for everything (receiver, speakers, sub). If I could put together something awesome for less money, of course that would be even better, but $1,000 tops.


-I don't think I need 6.1 or 7.1. 5.1 should be fine as it's still 4 more speakers than I'm used to having and I can't think of anything that is encoded in 7.1 anyway.


-I will be using it primarily for video games and music. I don't watch a lot of movies, although I probably would watch a lot more of them with a good system.


-As far as music, I listen to a lot of Nine Inch Nails, which tends to be loud, bass-heavy and very densely layered. I would love to be able to hear all of the layers that I am missing with my current POS stereo. And I definitely want to feel the bass. I would also like to be able to achieve ear-bleeding volume without distortion.


I guess that's it. Basically I'm just looking for the best bang for the buck system I can put together, and one that will really rock out. Maybe I am asking for too much for this price point, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


Thanks in advance for any help with this.


----------



## lawnranger

well Ron. i was about to get the pb10-nsd, but with shipping and Ohio tax it comes to 502$ the vtf2 is 552$. hell if I'm going pay 500, i may as well go up to 600, which is a large quality increase right? ill have to think about it, i really didn't want to see another 28$ for ohio resident tax. what are my options for 600shipped. i want the best value for the money. not sure 502$ for a pb10 is it. i think ill be getting a better value if i can find something for 6 shipped.


----------



## whorunit

*Polks or a 5.1 HKTS 11 Harmon/ Kardon (Newegg special right now)*

Read this thread extensively and am still uncertain and would appreciate ANY advice:

Currently have Samsung 4671F LCD, Onkyo 605, A35, and PS3

Need speakers for a small room. I had Sony FT1H 5.1 setup but its time for more so I need some advice.

Price is definitely a limitation, But after reading this thread there are a lot of quality setups made for a reasonable price. Thinking
*Please any advice or opinion if the HKTS center will be sufficient or just buy polks and sub independently*


Thanks in advance and PM if you do not want to post in thread


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/13001707
> 
> 
> well Ron. i was about to get the pb10-nsd, but with shipping and Ohio tax it comes to 502$ the vtf2 is 552$. hell if I'm going pay 500, i may as well go up to 600, which is a large quality increase right? ill have to think about it, i really didn't want to see another 28$ for ohio resident tax. what are my options for 600shipped. i want the best value for the money. not sure 502$ for a pb10 is it. i think ill be getting a better value if i can find something for 6 shipped.



The Epik Valor - $549, Knight $599, MFW 15 $599...or wait for a B-stock SVS PB12NSD or Hsu VTF2.3...the Outlaw LFM EX is also a very nice sub in that budget. However, if you're going to spend $600 bones and have the space, the first 3 are in a different league...might have to wait a bit on the AV123 sub though. Don't get frozen by indecision...any of the subs you are considering from the PB10 to the Outlaw are reeeaaaaallllly excellent performers...great sound quality...awesome HT and musical performers...they will all put lead in your pencil.


----------



## titanmugs

Wow best audio thread ive seen!! Thanx "G" for starting this whole thing. Ive read 82 pages in the last 2 days, my brain is fried and my wallet is ready to open. The "She Devil" that i claim as a wife gave me a $400 blessing. lol Im currenly running the 790 htib,65 Tosh DLP,Tosh A30. Speaker upgrade time. I know the surround and rears on the 7.1 are pretty cheap. Are the fronts and center that bad? If so, what about using the fronts for rears? Seem like that make for decent surrounds? All advice would be great. I would like to stay with the 7.1, if i need a few more bucks im sure i could beg or maybe do some dishes, ironing, and or bathroom cleaning lol. Thanks you guys


----------



## lawnranger

think im going to go for the Hsu VTF2.3. I was considering the valor, but that may be 1 month+ wait. The Hsu VTF2.3 is only 50$ more than the pb10, so it seems worth it.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *titanmugs* /forum/post/13007075
> 
> 
> Wow best audio thread ive seen!! Thanx "G" for starting this whole thing. Ive read 82 pages in the last 2 days, my brain is fried and my wallet is ready to open. The "She Devil" that i claim as a wife gave me a $400 blessing. lol Im currenly running the 790 htib,65 Tosh DLP,Tosh A30. Speaker upgrade time. I know the surround and rears on the 7.1 are pretty cheap. Are the fronts and center that bad? If so, what about using the fronts for rears? Seem like that make for decent surrounds? All advice would be great. I would like to stay with the 7.1, if i need a few more bucks im sure i could beg or maybe do some dishes, ironing, and or bathroom cleaning lol. Thanks you guys



the most dramatic improvement will be observed by upgrading the sub and the front 3 speakers. if i were you, i'd make an initial investment in new L/C/R speakers, and sell off the equivalent HTIB speakers. take the balance of the $400 remaining after your initial purchase and the proceeds from the speakers sold and maybe a little extra and invest in one of the good budget subs often talked about around here. when that comes in, sell off the onkyo sub to make up the difference.


this was my approach, and it worked out very well. if you have patience, you can get more than you paid for the HTIB back by selling it in pieces using craigslist or ebay.


----------



## arachosia

Hi, I've never owned any surround sound stuff before and would like help trying to put something together for under $1,000.


The setup I have been considering is as follows:


Receiver: Marantz SR4500 (not sure how good this is, but I can get a used for $150)

Front L&R: Polk Monitor 50s

Center: Polk CS1

Surrounds: Polk R50s

Sub: Bic H-100


I'm just wondering if you guys think this setup will sound amazing or can I do better for a grand? Thanks.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/12858465
> 
> 
> Fry's has the Polk R50's on sale for $59 ea + shipping right now. I love my set and will probably buy another set for surrounds. Not sure about the Center speaker. I still have to buy an new receiver that has surround!



out of stock now it seems. seems the r150s are also oos.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *arachosia* /forum/post/13015467
> 
> 
> Hi, I've never owned any surround sound stuff before and would like help trying to put something together for under $1,000.
> 
> 
> The setup I have been considering is as follows:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Marantz SR4500 (not sure how good this is, but I can get a used for $150)
> 
> Front L&R: Polk Monitor 50s
> 
> Center: Polk CS1
> 
> Surrounds: Polk R50s
> 
> Sub: Bic H-100
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if you guys think this setup will sound amazing or can I do better for a grand? Thanks.



I'd go smaller for surrounds.

The r50s are quite large and require decent ampage.


The r150s would been nice but are out of stock at frys right now.


Monitors are quite nice, the center is very solid and the sub is a great buy imho.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ORPhD* /forum/post/12921121
> 
> 
> I'm certainly a relative newb when it comes to receivers, but this is an issue that has been puzzling me for a while. If a receiver is labeled as "HDMI passthrough" and is connected to the source ONLY using HDMI, it will output no audio at all (not even stereo or regular DD 5.1), right?
> 
> 
> This seems so illogical and pointless (for example what would the benefit of a 1 in 1 out passthrough?), but I can't seem to find a counterexample.



benefit of 1 to 1 passthrough is nearly nil but it can allow you to pass audio to the receiver and video to the tv/projector without a separate audio cable. Still rather a waste too only include 1 output


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lawnranger* /forum/post/13009562
> 
> 
> think im going to go for the Hsu VTF2.3. I was considering the valor, but that may be 1 month+ wait. The Hsu VTF2.3 is only 50$ more than the pb10, so it seems worth it.



Just pick one...pretty soon you're going to have to go for the PB13Ultra







.


----------



## daeagles

I got a pair or RTi4 as my fronts, but would like to move for surround. Does anyone know of any decent but cheap stands for them. Currently overseas in military housing and dont want to put holes in the wall. Thanks


----------



## lawnranger

went with the Outlaw LFM-1 EX since it is on sale for $549 plus shipping.


----------



## cluelessngr

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster. Just purchased a new plasma hdtv, a hitachi p50s601 (wanted the panny 700u but got a good deal on the hitachi). Charter was out today and installed a motorola dch3200 hdtv box. The plasma get delivered Wednessday. Now my attention turns to a home theater sound arrangement. At first I thought this would be easy and I was going to purchase a HTIB but while researching the differences between the Sony dav-hdx500 and the Sony Dav-fx500 I stumbled across this thread. I realize that the Sony's are not that well thought of around here but let me add that I can get the hdx500 for $190.00 or the fx500 for $230.00 (both new in box) or I can work with what I have which is the following:


1) pair of baby advent II speakers

2) Denon DSW-30 powered sub

3) Sherwood rx-4105 and an onkyo tx-860 tuner/amps (both only 2 channel)

4) Custom Vintage speakers which consist of

a) jbl-2150 15 inch woofers

b) McIntosh 8" lower mids

c) MCintosh soft dome upper mids

d) Mcintosh tweeters

e) crossover's from a pair of McIntosh ml-1c's (4 way)


These custom speakers started their life time as a pair of ML-1c's that were removed from thier enclosure's and placed in some very nice unknown vintage enclosures that really are nice piece's of furniture (cherry I think). Each enclosure wieghs about 120 pounds and they double as end tables. The 12" original woofers were replaced with 15" jbl's. They really do sound terrific but if they can be used in a home theater setup I do not know.


Now should I bother buying either HTIB and utilizing the reciever or just skip them altogether? If so which one should I get? Normally, as I understand it, this is not worth the money but I am getting either (I think) at a discounted price.


Or should my first purchase be a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver/amp and a center channel speaker and utilize and eventually upgrade my current speakers? Are any of my current speakers suitable for a home theater surround sound setup? Given my current equipment (or lack thereof) in what order would you purchase new equipment?


----------



## ramblinj

I had decided to buy Onkyo's latest HTIB package (the one that includes the 605) until I saw the closeout prices on Polk's rti speakers. So... I've been trying to assemble a better quality package for a reasonable price. Here's where I'm at so far:


Front L/R: Polk rti8 ($340 shipped - new)

Center: Polk csi5 ($220 shipped - refurb)

Surround: Polk fxi3 ($130 shipped - used)


So far my total is $690, which is about the price of the HTIB I was looking at. But I'm still short a subwoofer and a receiver. I'm going to keep using my old Kenwood receiver and sub until I can find some good deals.


I've been looking at the BIC H-100 and may buy one soon. I want an Onkyo 705 receiver, but I'd like the price to drop a bit. Even better I may wait until next year to see if Onkyo's new offerings fix the synch issues I've been reading about.


----------



## daeagles




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramblinj* /forum/post/13037292
> 
> 
> I had decided to buy Onkyo's latest HTIB package (the one that includes the 605) until I saw the closeout prices on Polk's rti speakers. So... I've been trying to assemble a better quality package for a reasonable price. Here's where I'm at so far:
> 
> 
> Front L/R: Polk rti8 ($340 shipped - new)
> 
> Center: Polk csi5 ($220 shipped - refurb)
> 
> Surround: Polk fxi3 ($130 shipped - used)
> 
> 
> So far my total is $690, which is about the price of the HTIB I was looking at. But I'm still short a subwoofer and a receiver. I'm going to keep using my old Kenwood receiver and sub until I can find some good deals.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at the BIC H-100 and may buy one soon. I want an Onkyo 705 receiver, but I'd like the price to drop a bit. Even better I may wait until next year to see if Onkyo's new offerings fix the synch issues I've been reading about.



The BIC 100 wont dissapoint also look at ShopOnkyo they sometimes have refurbished recievers for a decent price


----------



## cluelessngr

Which of these four amps would you recomend


1) HK AVR 247

2) DENON AVR-3802

3) Onkyo TX-SR602

4) Yamaha HTR 5790


All seem to be in that same ballpark on fleabay. I have also been looking at the jbl-Lc1 or Lc2 series of center channel speakers and surrounds? Any suggestions?


----------



## onebxr

The HK will probably sound the best, but their quality control has some issues. I have a onkyo 604, I havent ever heard of a 602, however the onkyo sounds good. It replaced a Sony and it sounds so much better. As for the denon and the yamaha I couldnt say, b/c I have not ever owned one of those.

Make sure you are buying from authorized dealers, that way if there are problems with the reciever you choose you have some recourse.

Hope this helps,

-Rich


----------



## HelloKitty4Evar

awsome thread. last month after much reading I finally went with:

58' panny plasma (only 720p)

onkyo sr605

Rit8's front

csi5 center

Fxi5's side rear in dipole mode

Rti4's rear

polk 'free subwoofer' for now - its ok.


I must say this is better than i ever imagined. The center is the best piece. Those who say to upgrade the center if at all possible are correct, ALL dialogue is there.


in fact the rear surrounds (7.1) part is almost useless. almost Nothing is in 7.1! not even dvd's they mix with the side surrounds though and for music it helps to 'fill the room' with sound. but i have yet to hear any 7.1 source after a month of DVD/directv hd dvr watching....


thanks to everyone especially the prolific Ron Temple. I got these polks on clearance at Frys and can't be happier. I will next upgrade the sub when i get a chance or I can find a sub with a remote volume control (roomate situation).


Cheers!


----------



## Noya

I was going to buy the sr800, but I just can't bring myself to do it when I know that for a few hundred more I can get something way better. I'm a fan of free shipping and good deals, so here is what I have so far:


$234 shipped - Onkyo 505

amazon.com


$199 shipped - JBL 12" subwoofer
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4104345 


$225'ish shipped - Polk Monitor 40
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4039151 


$116 shipped - Polk Monitor CS1

amazon.com


I'll pick up some R150 bookshelfs if Fry's ever get them back in ($65'ish shipped) for side channels. I currently have some old Aiwa bookshelfs I can use.


This will be in an 11' x 14' x 7.5' room.


Are there any better speakers for L/R/C than the dual 5.25" Monitors at a similar price ($350'ish)?


I also noticed ShopOnkyo has the refurb 575 for $269 (+shippingof $30?), is that worth an additional $70+?


Also, would I be better getting bare wire:
http://monoprice.com/products/produc...seq=1&format=2 

OR enclosed wire (is it shielded?)
http://monoprice.com/products/produc...seq=1&format=2 

I'll be running wire under carpet and behind base boards.


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noya* /forum/post/13051701
> 
> 
> I was going to buy the sr800, but I just can't bring myself to do it when I know that for a few hundred more I can get something way better. I'm a fan of free shipping and good deals, so here is what I have so far:
> 
> 
> $234 shipped - Onkyo 505
> 
> amazon.com
> 
> 
> $199 shipped - JBL 12" subwoofer
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4104345
> 
> 
> $225'ish shipped - Polk Monitor 40
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4039151
> 
> 
> $116 shipped - Polk Monitor CS1
> 
> amazon.com
> 
> 
> I'll pick up some R150 bookshelfs if Fry's ever get them back in ($65'ish shipped) for side channels. I currently have some old Aiwa bookshelfs I can use.
> 
> 
> This will be in an 11' x 14' x 7.5' room.
> 
> 
> Are there any better speakers for L/R/C than the dual 5.25" Monitors at a similar price ($350'ish)?
> 
> 
> I also noticed ShopOnkyo has the refurb 575 for $269 (+shippingof $30?), is that worth an additional $70+?
> 
> 
> Also, would I be better getting bare wire:
> http://monoprice.com/products/produc...seq=1&format=2
> 
> OR enclosed wire (is it shielded?)
> http://monoprice.com/products/produc...seq=1&format=2
> 
> I'll be running wire under carpet and behind base boards.



this is good flat speaker wire for running under the carpet and baseboards.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...6WYHE4AMB4590M


----------



## mfromb

Onkyo TX-SR505 Manufacturer Refurb

*ECost.com - $186.94 delivered (DHL Ground) -$10.00 credit to CC from 'shop.com' (but, I won't hold my breath waiting on that added savings!)


Dayton HTS-1200 5.1 (w/Dayton Sub-100 10")

**Partsexpress.com - $227.99 delivered (UPS Ground)


***I added some of the necessary cables from Monoprice.com - $55.82 Delivered (UPS Ground):

100' 16AWG speaker wire

1 - 12' Digital Audio Cable for Sub

2 - 3' Optical audio cables

10 - Pair Screw-on Type Banana Plugs


This will initially be used to supporting a new Sharp LC46D64U 46" 1080p display, Sharp Blu-Ray BD-HP20U, and an XBox.


*Ecost - I took a bit of a chance with them, as they ARE listed by Onkyo as an Authorized Reseller of Onkyo Factory-Refurbs. Horrible Resellerratings, but I did fine with them. Shipped, as advertised, no surprises (other than DHL delivering a day earlier than initial projection).


**Parts Express initially said they HAD the bundled 5.1 set in stock.. only for me to learn about 48 hours later they were NOT in stock and NOT expected until March 5th! They were kind enough to put together a bundle for the bundle price, using the separate components (5 HTS-1200 speakers + sub-100) with the only caveat being that I had to settle for the Silver speakers (black sub, still), which my wife actually preferred in the first place.


***Some of these cables are redundant, given the way the Dayton's are bundled with 'some speaker wire', but I always intended to toss it out and replace with known-good quality, anyways. The other cables (sub cable and audio cables), I know do not come with either my receiver OR with the speaker bundle -- no idea if a HTIB provides any of these, either, though?


Final Price of all the components listed above, for the math challenged ;-)


$414.93 - for receiver + 5.1 speakers

OR

$470.75 - with additional cables


depending on how you would care to look at the 'final price'. Assuming I actually get the Shop.com credit on my CC, I can knock those prices back by $10.


All in all, I think this was worth the 'effort' vs. getting an Onkyo-HT800 HTIB, which uses the same Onkyo 505 receiver as it's backbone? I have to wait until later this week to pass final judgement on the overall performance of this 'system', but my hopes are high that, relative to other comparably priced options, this should pass the 'price/performance' test with flying colors.


Sadly, my 'upscaled' option of using Frys.com for Polk R150's as front/rear and a Polk center was never realized (granted, it would have driven the cost up by another $150 or so). I lost patience waiting on them to come in stock and ship! Not entirely a 'bad thing', however, as it forced me to stick with my intentions to assemble a price/performance alternative to a $400-$600 HTIB, and (hopefully) an audibly improved system over my originally intended Onkyo HT800 kit.


Oh, I could also add that last night I picked up on an Amazon $49.99 *new* Logitech Harmony 550 deal, AND I was able to add the free trial offer for 'Amazon Prime' to pick up the free 2-day shipping option, for good measure -- setting the Prime agreement to auto-cancel after trial period. How handy is that?! For me, that just really capped off the whole kit as a solid value, commensurate with my frugal intentions.










mark


----------



## lockmart

I go back and forth on my new setup, but decided I should stick to my original intent of selling previous Bose stuff and using that money for the most part and staying withing $1K for receiver and speakers. I looked at some more expensive stuff but just when I was about to buy something I found another review or data point that claims the setup wasn't as good as I was expecting. In the speaker section it's easy to keep increasing the budget, but it's a never ending pursuit over there.


I just need something that sounds decent and takes advantage of the new lossless audio formats. Will the R series from Polk be sufficent? I've looked at Monitor, Rti's, Klipsch, Boston Acoustic so far. I'll be grouping with the Onkyo 605 and Samsung Blu Ray and just want to make sure the speakers are up for the job.


Everyone bashes Bose left and right, but when you really start to research it in the speaker section I don't think they have too much confidence you can actually do a ton better in the price range. Might get some additional insights over here.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lockmart* /forum/post/13087730
> 
> 
> I just need something that sounds decent and takes advantage of the new lossless audio formats. Will the R series from Polk be sufficent?



As many have probably already told you, SQ is very subjective so whether or not *you'll* like the sound of Polk R-series speakers is not answerable by others. That said, I can tell you that last weekend I replaced my speakers (left over from a Sony HTIB) with 4 R150's and a CSR. I didn't have time to do anything but simply connect them up and listen. To my ears at least, there was a noticeable improvement in SQ.


----------



## lockmart

I've seen that around and agree whole heartedly, unfortunately there aren't a lot of places to audition these things anymore or around here. I've listened to Polks and Klipsch of different model lines but that's about it in this range. I've heard the Monitor and Rti's. With the sales on the RTIs I'm very tempted by those, but they sounded a little bright for music. Probably should just get those and be done with it. Just a little over my original budget for receiver and speakers and quite the setup if you like the sound. I guess my answer is to listen again, but wish there were more options for auditioning others.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lockmart* /forum/post/13088521
> 
> 
> I've seen that around and agree whole heartedly, unfortunately there aren't a lot of places to audition these things anymore or around here. I've listened to Polks and Klipsch of different model lines but that's about it in this range. I've heard the Monitor and Rti's. With the sales on the RTIs I'm very tempted by those, but they sounded a little bright for music. Probably should just get those and be done with it. Just a little over my original budget for receiver and speakers and quite the setup if you like the sound. I guess my answer is to listen again, but wish there were more options for auditioning others.



You're right - the opportunities for auditioning can be scarce, depending on where you live. I was fortunate (if driving 200 miles round trip can be considered "fortunate", LOL) to be able to get to a Fry's to listen to the Polks before I finally bought them on-line.


----------



## lockmart

Did you get a chance to listen to different models? I know I was asking about the R's at first, but also interested in the Monitor & Rtis. They all seem like a good value but just curious if they all have the same sound on the highs?


I want to order this week and get on with my life, considering the Athena speakers too (can't remember if it's those or another but some have good 30 day return policies). Too many to choose from and not enough readily available for real world comparison)!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lockmart* /forum/post/13088809
> 
> 
> Did you get a chance to listen to different models? I know I was asking about the R's at first, but also interested in the Monitor & Rtis. They all seem like a good value but just curious if they all have the same sound on the highs?
> 
> 
> I want to order this week and get on with my life, considering the Athena speakers too (can't remember if it's those or another but some have good 30 day return policies). Too many to choose from and not enough readily available for real world comparison)!



Don't mean to be a budget buster, but...


The Rs are great entry level Polks...do a lot of things very well, but give up some detail.


The Monitors are a nice step up...


The RTis offer excellent detail, soundstage and imaging along with much better build quality. The are a bit forward, but all in all, excellent HT speakers and much better than the lesser lines for music. You can tame the brightness with the right combo of gear, notably Marantz or HK. At the closeout prices, I wouldn't hesitate. For a few hundred dollars you are getting speakers that compare with others over the $1K price point. Do it now and don't regret it later.


That being said...every Polk speaker will smoke the bose cubes.


----------



## samsurd2

FWIW, checked about 30 minutes ago and these are in stock again.


----------



## lockmart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13092107
> 
> 
> Don't mean to be a budget buster, but...
> 
> 
> The Rs are great entry level Polks...do a lot of things very well, but give up some detail.
> 
> 
> The Monitors are a nice step up...
> 
> 
> The RTis offer excellent detail, soundstage and imaging along with much better build quality. The are a bit forward, but all in all, excellent HT speakers and much better than the lesser lines for music. You can tame the brightness with the right combo of gear, notably Marantz or HK. At the closeout prices, I wouldn't hesitate. For a few hundred dollars you are getting speakers that compare with others over the $1K price point. Do it now and don't regret it later.
> 
> 
> That being said...every Polk speaker will smoke the bose cubes.



Thanks, I'm going back to listen again tomorrow with my own music. I was contemplating the PSBs too, found a dealer about 40 minutes from here. They are quite a bit more, my bottom line is bang for the buck vs. a set amount. I think everything is shaping up to be the Rtis though like you mentioned they seem like an incredible value at close out prices. I'll keep the receiver picks in mind. Originally I wanted a Onkyo 605 for the lossless capability, but I might just wait for an internal decoding Blu Ray player and opt for a better receiver now in terms of power etc. over features.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13092874
> 
> 
> FWIW, checked about 30 minutes ago and these are in stock again.



Wow, talk about a coincidence. I ordered another pair of R150's almost a month ago, but they went out of stock right after I placed my order so it was put on backorder. This morning I got an email saying "We apologize but the item(s) you ordered are still out of stock and we are unable to provide a definite ship date." and asking if I wanted to cancel my order or keep it open. I didn't respond yet. Just now I read this post, then checked my order status and the R150's have been shipped! Finally! Now, the decision is should I use them as rear surrounds for a 7.1 setup or as speakers in basement running off the B-speaker outputs?


----------



## metal83

I'm looking to put together a system at Circuit city. For the receiver i was looking at the Denon AVR888, Not sure what sort of speakers i should or am going to get with it. But i was wondering if anyone knows or has heard about this receiver. Living room is 18x12 so i think 7.1 might work good.


----------



## livewyr25

For starters, great thread!!!!


Im ready to commit to purchase a HT setup. I don't have the room for a 5.1 system, so I want a 2.1 or 3.1 system. All my inputs (hd cable box, ps3, and soon to be apple tv) use an hdmi cable. The onkyo receivers have really caught my eye, but still open to everyone's opinion. Also i would need suggestions for speakers and a sub. my budget is 700-800. thanks!


----------



## Noya




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *livewyr25* /forum/post/13115371
> 
> 
> For starters, great thread!!!!
> 
> 
> Im ready to commit to purchase a HT setup. I don't have the room for a 5.1 system, so I want a 2.1 or 3.1 system. All my inputs (hd cable box, ps3, and soon to be apple tv) use an hdmi cable. The onkyo receivers have really caught my eye, but still open to everyone's opinion. Also i would need suggestions for speakers and a sub. my budget is 700-800. thanks!


*Receiver*

$160 shipped - Onkyo sr-505 (factory refurb w/warranty, shoponkyo.com)
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i 
*Center*

$113 shipped - Polk Monitor CS1 dual 5.25" center channel (amazon)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...al/center/cs1/ 
*Left/Right*

$225 shipped - Polk Audio Monitor 40 dual 5.25" bookshelfs (JR.com)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...elf/monitor40/ 
*Subwoofer*

$230 shipped- Bic H-100 (ebay, make an to a seller, $230 shipped supposedly)
_or_

$199 shipped - JBL 12" 250watt Avenue (JR.com)
http://jbl.com/home/products/product...at=SUB&ser=PER 


If you want some cheap surrounds to make it 5.1, the Polk Audio R150 5.25" bookshelfs are $65'ish shipped from Frys.com
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...ookshelf/r150/ 


Buy your speaker cable, banna clips and subwoofer cable from monoprice.com.


That's a special price on the Onkyo so get on it FAST. Those are also the cheapest prices I've seen on the CS1 and 40's, so I would order those quickly as well.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *livewyr25* /forum/post/13115371
> 
> 
> For starters, great thread!!!!
> 
> 
> Im ready to commit to purchase a HT setup. I don't have the room for a 5.1 system, so I want a 2.1 or 3.1 system. All my inputs (hd cable box, ps3, and soon to be apple tv) use an hdmi cable. The onkyo receivers have really caught my eye, but still open to everyone's opinion. Also i would need suggestions for speakers and a sub. my budget is 700-800. thanks!



Here's another possibility - there are certainly others. It includes an excellent sub, a nice front stage and a receiver that has 3 HDMI inputs, handles audio over HDMI (no separate audio cables required) and will play lossless audio from your PS3 Bluray player. Total is $730 + shipping. As of this morning, everything listed is new and "in stock".


2 Polk Audio R150 bookshelf speakers, Frys, $49.99/pair + shipping

1 Polk Audio CSR center speaker, Frys, $79.99/pair + shipping

BIC Acoustec H-100 subwoofer, eBay store, ~$250 including shipping

Sony STR-DG910 7.1 receiver, B&H Photo (authorized dealer), $350 + shipping


----------



## onebxr

To add to the post before this one, reguarding the BIC sub, make an offer of 200.00 and they will usually take that. Your total will come out to ~239.00 shipped. Pinch those pennies we are in a recession.









-Rich


----------



## Bakrauf

Home Theater Speaker System


I was debating on going with the Onkyo 908 HTIB. But I am Wondering if I should spend a tad bit more money and buy:


Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver - Black


Plus the


Polk Home Theater Speaker System http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ....do?oid=124847 


then add two other speakers to make it 7.1


Any other good speaker system that will go with the Onkyo? I know its about $100 more than the HTIB but is it worth it for the better speakers?


----------



## metal83

This is going to be my first HT system, i am thinking of either the the denon or 888 or 988


Speakers

polk 2 m50's or m70's

polk 2 m30's or 40's

polk cs2

polk sub psw125


This would be for a room that is 18x12...But unfortunately my GF is bugging me to move the tv and couch againt the other wall so she has the end of the room for something else...which in turn would make it 12x12....Would this stuff work? and would would work or match up best?


----------



## blobula

I just received my new pair of Polk Audio RTi8 cherry speakers from Frys this evening and all I can say is WOW. Its hard to believe that I was able to get such a great set of speakers for $149 a piece. They look great and sound wonderful.


So far I've purchased the Polk RTi8, CSi3, CSR, R300, R150 speakers from Frys mainly due to price.


The Polk Audio RTi8 speakers are great for the price if anyone is currently looking. I think they a fairly budget friendly as well.


Here are a few photos of the Polk RTi8 speakers.





























Here is a picture of the Polk Audio R300 and Polk Audio RTi8 speakers side-by-side. The Polk R300 is a great speaker as well. Especially for $49 a piece.











For picture of all the speakers go here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blobula...7603593777481/


----------



## Damion83

The RTi8's look great. Is that REAL wood veneer on them?


What is the black thing on the rear lower section of them?


----------



## sourbeef

You guys are KILLING me with this







in a good way.










I was almost committed to buying the Onkyo 908 HTIB, but then I started reading through this thread. *There is a lot of lovin' for Polk speakers* in this thread. I just may do an about face here, get the Onkyo receiver (either 605 or *705- I like the extra HDMI with this one*), then make separate purchases of somekind of Polk. Certainly not top of the line, they are too damn expensive. But some of their stuff looks affordable and comes highly recommended.


----------



## Damion83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bakrauf* /forum/post/13123893
> 
> 
> Home Theater Speaker System
> 
> 
> I was debating on going with the Onkyo 908 HTIB. But I am Wondering if I should spend a tad bit more money and buy:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver - Black
> 
> 
> Plus the
> 
> 
> Polk Home Theater Speaker System http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ....do?oid=124847
> 
> 
> then add two other speakers to make it 7.1
> 
> 
> Any other good speaker system that will go with the Onkyo? I know its about $100 more than the HTIB but is it worth it for the better speakers?



I wouldn't buy anything from CircuitCity or BestBuy, they overcharge on everything.
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3996145 
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3996146 


Sign up for "Club Onkyo" and get the SR505 for $160 shipped (refurb w/warranty) if you order by the 20th:
http://shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?prod...il=1&ext_war=1 

The SR505 is plenty for the RM 6750 5.1 set.


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Damion83* /forum/post/13151494
> 
> 
> The RTi8's look great. Is that REAL wood veneer on them?
> 
> 
> What is the black thing on the rear lower section of them?



Yes, it is real smooth wood veneer. It's very slick looking.


The black thing on the back is the power port and is basically a cover. There may be a more technical term for it though.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/13151357
> 
> 
> I just received my new pair of Polk Audio RTi8 cherry speakers from Frys this evening and all I can say is WOW. Its hard to believe that I was able to get such a great set of speakers for $149 a piece. They look great and sound wonderful.
> 
> 
> So far I've purchased the Polk RTi8, CSi3, CSR, R300, R150 speakers from Frys mainly due to price.
> 
> 
> The Polk Audio RTi8 speakers are great for the price if anyone is currently looking. I think they a fairly budget friendly as well.
> 
> 
> Here are a few photos of the Polk RTi8 speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]




OK, speakers look great. What is the secret to Frys? I have no experience with them, how can they offer prices like that on the RTi8? If you go to the Polk webpage, same speakers are going for 840.00 a pair. How does Frys do it? Is it too good to be true? Is there a catch I don't know about or should beware of?


----------



## afrogt

Because Fry's buys in volume and the Rti8's are now discontinued and replaced by the RTi A5 so they are heavily discounted. If you really want them and Fry's has it in stock, jump on it. Those deals don't last forever.


They're an authorized Polk dealer so you get the full mfrs warranty.


----------



## astrosfan

We are looking to buy a new RPTV to start a revision of our home theater setup. Right now our thoughts are:


Stage I - Samsung HL-T5087S or HL-T5687S (by the end of the month)

Stage Ia - Oppo DV-980H (maybe a week later, want to get comfortable with TV first)

Stage II - Klipsch Quintet II speaker system w/ appropriate A/V receiver (when funds allow - probably a month or two)


We have been trying to do as much reading/researching as possible to supplement our own opinions. We have reached a point where we feel like we need to make a post to get some more educated information/responses. We can find plenty of info on the items we are looking at, but not a lot concerning our specific plan and integration.


Our TV viewing time is split pretty evenly between regular cable TV and XBOX360, with occasional movies thrown into the mix. Let's say maybe 45/45/10, with any given week seeing our gaming or TV time at 65-80%. Now, we fully expect that to change once we upgrade our TV situation, but to what extent or result, we do not know.


Stage I


This is a major investment for us and the 5687 is pushing the envelope of our TV budget - but when comparing them side by side, it was so much more TV than the 5087. For a price difference of around $300 or so, we felt that if we settled' for the 50 we would always wish we had gone for the 56. We started out looking at entry level 37-42 lcds, like Vizios, but realized that our current budget could net us quite a bit more bang for the buck with a rear projection unit. Viewing angle is not a deciding factor at all, as we can control our viewing environment/position pretty well. Other than that and not being able to hang it on the wall, we just cannot justify spending that amount of money for about half as much TV, regardless if how much brighter' an LCD seems in certain conditions. (56 is around 1350 square inches 40 around 680 or so). After reading tons of positive and negative comments on a wide range of TVs, the LED Samsungs just seem to be right for us.


We really feel confident about the Oppo probably the highest degree of confidence throughout the entire plan'. Like many others, our budget and reality are suggesting that we sit out the format war and stick with an upconverting sd-dvd player. I have read nothing but good things about this particular model, especially coupled with the Samsung XX87S. If we go with the 50, we will probably buy the DVD player at the same time. If we get the 56, it will probably have to wait for a week or so.



Stage II


Speakers are where we begin to venture into dark territory. Sometimes we wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a killer stereo (2 channel) setup with a great stereo receiver. Usually when we finish discussing/debating, we decide that with our mix of gaming/tv/movie viewing that we would be much better served with a real surround speaker system. Our current entertainment room is small enough that we could deal with a smaller speaker setup, like a Klipsch, and then upgrade as necessity/living arrangements dictate that we need a real speaker system.


We have read that the Quintet IIs are actually superior in sound quality to the Quintet IIIs, but really do not know for sure and we cannot find a good place in the DFW area to hear these speakers. We are totally open to suggestions in speakers. We fell relatively certain that our situation and tastes in both audio and visual media lends itself more toward a separate receiver/speaker setup as opposed to a HTIB. Not that we have any aversion to HTIBs, for many years we have lived on an ancient Sony Dream System'. It just seems that in today's market, the quality of the components is much better if you piece your system together.


This leads us into the choice of a good A/V home theater receiver. So many choices, so many different, conflicting opinions... It seems like matching well with the Oppo DVD player should be a prime factor, followed closely by being a good fit for our speaker choice (today that is the Klipsch Quintet IIs, but next week it could be something totally different). It would be nice if it could handle multiple HDMI inputs - something like the Sony STR-DG910 (but we do not know enough to know if a 1.3 HDMI output will or will not work with the Samsung). If anyone can point us in the right direction as far as speakers and receivers that fit what we are looking to accomplish, it would be greatly appreciated. It looks like decent HTIBs run about $400-700, so we would like to keep it affordable (but upgradeable). We are much more interested in accurate, clean sound reproduction than maximum bass or maximum volume.


Our current living area is not very big at all - we sit around 9-10' from the TV in a room that is about 20' wide, but connected to an entryway that is probably 10X8'. But, we do not want to build something for a small space and then it end up being woefully inadequate for a larger room, as our living situation could change anytime.


Reading over this, I feel that I should add that this is for my brother and me. We do not need to get the go ahead from the wife or anything like that. All we have to do is be able to afford it


There are many concepts that we do not understand that is why we are here. Please, feel free to explain things that might seem like common knowledge. Our ideas are definitely not set in stone, so we will not get our feelings hurt at all.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13151848
> 
> 
> Because Fry's buys in volume and the Rti8's are now discontinued and replaced by the RTi A5 so they are heavily discounted. If you really want them and Fry's has it in stock, jump on it. Those deals don't last forever.
> 
> 
> They're an authorized Polk dealer so you get the full mfrs warranty.



Thanks again, afrogt.


----------



## mayhem13

Planning a system for a friend of mine that is somewhat unconventional but coming from the live sound/recording world this is what we settled on.

Outlaw Audio 990 pre-amp/processor

5 Fostex pm-1mkIII self powered studio monitors

subwoofer to be determined.

Each monitor has 2 built in power amps seperate for highs and low/mids all connected with xlr cables directly from the outlaw. These monitors feature 8" low frew drivers and dome tweeters and are LOUD and very clean. We chose this option after considering how surround programs are mixed in the studio using basically this array keeping true to the original. Cost without the sub is less tha $1600.00 and i'm sure will put any HTIB to shame and some stand alone seperates as well.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Damion83* /forum/post/13151494
> 
> 
> The RTi8's look great. Is that REAL wood veneer on them? What is the black thing on the rear lower section of them?



Yes, RTi's use real wood veneer and the black thing is a PowerPort® - the technology that helps reduce bass port noise and improve low end performance. Most mid-high priced Polks have it.


----------



## voodoojohn

How does this sound for a starter home theater setup? My little apartment's living room is about 12' x 14'.


Receiver: Harman Kardon AVR 146

Front: 2 x Polk R50's

Surround: 2 x Polk R150's

Center: Polk CSR

Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100


This setup would cost about $820 after shipping and taxes (Polks from Frys, H-100 from EBay, and the 146 from Harmon's website). My only concern is that I plan on watching plenty of Blu Ray and playing plenty of PS3 and I'm not quite confident in the 146's ability to perform. Can anyone recommend me a receiver that'll fit well with my 5.1 setup/viewing preferences but won't break the bank? For reference, the 146 would cost me $225 after taxes and shipping straight from Harman.


Great thread everyone! Hope to be getting my share of good advice pretty soon!


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *voodoojohn* /forum/post/13157400
> 
> 
> How does this sound for a starter home theater setup? My little apartment's living room is about 12' x 14'.
> 
> 
> Receiver: Harman Kardon AVR 146
> 
> Front: 2 x Polk R50's
> 
> Surround: 2 x Polk R150's
> 
> Center: Polk CSR
> 
> Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100
> 
> 
> This setup would cost about $820 after shipping and taxes (Polks from Frys, H-100 from EBay, and the 146 from Harmon's website). My only concern is that I plan on watching plenty of Blu Ray and playing plenty of PS3 and I'm not quite confident in the 146's ability to perform. Can anyone recommend me a receiver that'll fit well with my 5.1 setup/viewing preferences but won't break the bank? For reference, the 146 would cost me $225 after taxes and shipping straight from Harman.
> 
> 
> Great thread everyone! Hope to be getting my share of good advice pretty soon!



You might also take a look at the Sony STR-DG810. It has 3 HDMI inputs, handles audio via HDMI including lossless PCM from Blu-ray on your PS3. It's available for ~$265+ shipping from an authorized dealer ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Receiver.html ).


If the whole "audio-via-HDMI/lossless-via-PCM" thing doesn't matter to you, also check out Onkyo's TX-SR505.


----------



## voodoojohn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13157745
> 
> 
> You might also take a look at the Sony STR-DG810. It has 3 HDMI inputs, handles audio via HDMI including lossless PCM from Blu-ray on your PS3. It's available for ~$265+ shipping from an authorized dealer.
> 
> 
> If the whole "audio-via-HDMI/lossless-via-PCM" thing doesn't matter to you, also check out Onkyo's TX-SR505.



I would jump on the 810, but I've heard negative things about the SQ of Sony's budget receivers. How do the 147, 505, and 810 compare strictly in terms of sound quality? How big of a deal is it that the 810 handles audio through HDMI, considering I do watch a lot of Blu Ray? Sounds like a nice feature, but I don't want to sacrifice too much in terms of SQ. Need to strike the right balance somehow.


----------



## afrogt

Harman sounds better from my expereinces with Sony and Onkyo. But if you're only doing movies its not as big of a deal as it would be with music.


You can get a Harman AVR 247 for around $250-275 from Harman's ebay store. Same warranty as harmanaudio.com but a little cheaper for the ebay site.


Your best best is to get the Onkyo AVR 605 from shoponkyo.com. Its $349 with the clubonkyo membership thru tomorrow they have another 10% off for presidents day sale. Deduct another $10 for clubonkyo members and you're out the door for $304 shipped.


It handles lossless audio and decodes the newer high res audio options too.

http://shoponkyo.com/products.cfm?gr...ubcat=Receiver 


I wouldn't wait long because that deal could be gone in a few hours. Remember to sign up for Club Onkyo to get the discounts.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *voodoojohn* /forum/post/13158048
> 
> 
> I would jump on the 810, but I've heard negative things about the SQ of Sony's budget receivers. How do the 147, 505, and 810 compare strictly in terms of sound quality? How big of a deal is it that the 810 handles audio through HDMI, considering I do watch a lot of Blu Ray? Sounds like a nice feature, but I don't want to sacrifice too much in terms of SQ. Need to strike the right balance somehow.



The SQ is going to have a lot more to do with your speakers and sub than the brand of receiver at this price point but, if you're interested, read the DG810 thread and see what actual owners have to say. If you want to listen to the lossless audio (True HD and maybe DTS-MA in future) from Blu-ray discs on your PS3, you must have a receiver that handles audio via HDMI. As far as the 605 decoding lossless audio, it's a useless feature for you right now since your PS3 can't send these audio formats to any receiver as bitstreams. My guess is that by the time you get around to buying a stand-alone Blu-ray player that can send high def bitstreams to an AVR that can decode them, you'll be in the market for a new receiver again anyway. LOL














Wait until then and see what's new.


----------



## Ken27

Looking to upgrade to surround sound


Room is 12'x13'.


I was thinking of going with the following


center : Polk CS1 (its the only one that will fit the space, 19 1/2 inches wide or less where I can put the center)


Front : Polk Monitor 40s

Sub : Polk PSW 110 ( $200 off if you buy $500 worth of polk speakers at Crutchfield, of course it ends today)


Rears: Polk Monitor 30s


Reciever : sony ST-dg910

DVD : Sony NS77


That comes to around $1100 for the set up


Questions:

Is this overkill for a 12x13' room ?

Is there a lower priced option for the rear speakers rather than the Monitor 30

Would a Monitor 30 be a good enough option for the fronts

The front speakers would be about 3 feet above ear level and the center would be about 2 feet below ear level, is this a big deal?


I'm also open to other suggestions within this price range,


Thanks


Ken


----------



## sourbeef

OK, maybe I was bitten by the AV HT bug or something, but the madness has begun for me. I decided against the HTIB. Today I purchased an Onkyo HT SR705 at BB (it is fun to order online there, and then go pick it up







). Shortly after picking it up, I got online and ordered Polk ATi8s for the front L/R, and a POLK CSi-A4 for the center.


So that leaves the subwoofer, which I am still pondering. And the back surrounds....Oh my, what have I gotten myself into?????/


----------



## MarkoJ

Love this thread. I bought a Kenwood VR-715 HTIB something like 5 years ago and was disatisfied and was looking for what to do. After reading much of this thread, I thought I would start with decent speakers - I got the low end Polk 5.1 RM6750 home theatre system due to wife issues (especially on the center speaker). I hooked them up to my old Kenwood using "option B" hooking up the fronts through the subwoofer to use it's crossover and the sound has noticibly improved - especially center channel clarity, which was my bigest complaint (honey, what did they just say on ER??). Also, going through the sub when watching SD in stereo is a hube improvement - that sub helps alot even at low volume (see below). Anyway, thanks for all the advice.


Ok, so now for the obvious question: Should I replace my old Kendwood with an Onkyo SR505? The main issue for me is whether I would get a noticible sound quality improvement with the new receiver at low volume. I live in a condo (with a loft so the ceiling is 17 ft high in the listening area!) and have a two year old, so most of my tv/movie viewing is done at very low volume. The Kenwood seems decently powered, so I am thinking it might not matter, but maybe there is something I don't know. The Kenwood has optical digital inputs and Dolby 5.1 and DTS (and 6 channel analogue for DVD audio that I never use). I am including the specs and a link to the manual if anyone really wants to help me. Oh yes, my source is mostly Comcrap's HD DVR. Thanks!


AUDIO section (VR-705/715)

Rated power output during STEREO operation

Effective power output during SURROUND operation

FRONT (40 ~ 20 kHz, 0.7% T.H.D. at 8Ω one channel driven)

............................................................ ................... 100 W + 100 W

CENTER (40 ~ 20 kHz, 0.7% T.H.D. at 8Ω one channel driven)

............................................................ .................................. 100 W

SURROUND (40 ~ 20 kHz, 0.7% T.H.D. at 8Ω one channel

driven) ............................................................ ....... 100 W + 100 W

SUBWOOFER (80 Hz, 0.7% T.H.D. at 8Ω one channel driven)

(VR-715) ............................................................ .................... 100 W

Total harmonic distortion ........................... 0.05% (1 kHz, 50 W, 8Ω)

Frequency response

CD/DVD ...................................... 20 Hz ~ 70 kHz, +0 dB, –3.0 dB

Signal to noise ratio (IHF’66)

CD/DVD, AUX, TAPE, VIDEO1, VIDEO2 ............................ 95 dB

Input sensitivity / impedance

CD/DVD ............................................................ .... 550 mV / 47 kΩ

DVD/6CH INPUT (VR-715) .................................. 550 mV / 47 kΩ

Output level / impedance

TAPE REC ............................................................ ... 550 mV / 1 kΩ

PRE OUT (SUBWOOFER) (VR-705) ...................... 1.5 V / 2.2 kΩ

Tone control

BASS........................................................ ........ ±10 dB (at 100 Hz)

TREBLE ............................................................ ±10 dB (at 10 kHz)

Loudness control

VOLUME at -30dB level ................................... +8 dB (at 100 Hz)

http://www.retrevo.com/search/v2/jsp...Kenwood+VR-715


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken27* /forum/post/13162622
> 
> 
> Looking to upgrade to surround sound
> 
> 
> Room is 12'x13'.
> 
> 
> I was thinking of going with the following
> 
> 
> center : Polk CS1 (its the only one that will fit the space, 19 1/2 inches wide or less where I can put the center)
> 
> 
> Front : Polk Monitor 40s
> 
> Sub : Polk PSW 110 ( $200 off if you buy $500 worth of polk speakers at Crutchfield, of course it ends today)
> 
> 
> Rears: Polk Monitor 30s
> 
> 
> Reciever : sony ST-dg910
> 
> DVD : Sony NS77
> 
> 
> That comes to around $1100 for the set up
> 
> 
> Questions:
> 
> Is this overkill for a 12x13' room ?
> 
> Is there a lower priced option for the rear speakers rather than the Monitor 30
> 
> Would a Monitor 30 be a good enough option for the fronts
> 
> The front speakers would be about 3 feet above ear level and the center would be about 2 feet below ear level, is this a big deal?
> 
> 
> I'm also open to other suggestions within this price range,
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Ken



The M40s are pretty nice speakers...I like them better than the 30s. Put a door stop or book to tilt the center upwards and you will be fine.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13172387
> 
> 
> The M40s are pretty nice speakers...I like them better than the 30s. Put a door stop or book to tilt the center upwards and you will be fine.



The Polk CSi-A4 can be tilted automatically by turning it upside down. That is the one I am getting soon.







I think most of Polk's centers do the same thing.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13173678
> 
> 
> The Polk CSi-A4 can be tilted automatically by turning it upside down. That is the one I am getting soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think most of Polk's centers do the same thing.



Correct, Monitor and RTi line center speakers can be turned upside down on their 7th side. In my experience, that points the tweeter too far up, and you still need to fine-tune the angle with whatever means you have - door stop, strip of wood, etc.


----------



## buzzy_

"You can tame the brightness with the right combo of gear, notably Marantz or HK."


I'd suggest that people spend time experimenting with changing the speaker placement if they find a speaker isn't performing to their liking - for example, if the speakers seem bright, try to minimize side and floor reflections by covering floors or windows, or moving or turning the speaker. The goal is to have more direct sound, and less reflected sound, getting to you. It's easy to underestimate the substantial effect of placement relative to where you are listening from.


Or to put it another way, it helps a lot to get past putting the speakers where they first seem to fit in the room physically, and think about where they work best sonically as well. If you're creative you can usually find a solution that meets the space and sound issues, though that sometimes requires a particular speaker or mount.


----------



## sebadooo

Sorry for the ignorance, but how do I match up speakers with the receiver I select?


a) Do I need to make sure the speakers have more watts than the receiver itself to prevent blowing them out?

b) Are the most common speakers to DIY a HTIB "bookshelf" speakers?


The wattage thing I'd especially like to clear up. Also, do I need to pay attention to anything else for compatibility?


----------



## sebadooo

Oh yeah one more. I have no interest in 7.1 sound (what use does this have, seriously?) but I like the Onkyo that does 7.1 because it's their cheapest one that has HDMI. Can I just use this as a 5.1 system or would there be any compromises in doing so?


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebadooo* /forum/post/13181277
> 
> 
> Oh yeah one more. I have no interest in 7.1 sound (what use does this have, seriously?)



Well, ProLogicIIx, and possible future use. I use my 7.1 and get different sounds out of all four surround speakers. Correctly placed, it does rear imaging very well.


Where's Sanjay? He can explain it in full.



> Quote:
> but I like the Onkyo that does 7.1 because it's their cheapest one that has HDMI. Can I just use this as a 5.1 system or would there be any compromises in doing so?



Nope, you can shut off the rear surrounds and the receiver will know to go 5.1. It would be no different than a 5.1 receiver.


----------



## chrishallowell

Hi All,

I just got the Onkyo TXSR805 refurb receiver for $574.10 shipped.

Now I'm looking for speakers to fill my 25'x18' living room. 99% TV and movies, 1% music.

Given all of the suggestions, I'm going to focus on the 3 fronts first. Officially my budget is $300, but I could stretch it to $500 if it's worth sleeping in the garage for a week. Right now we(my wife and I) are using really cheap Jenson bookshelf speakers...


Should I buy a really good $250 center speaker and keep using the cheap bookshelves until I get more money. Or should I get lower quality speakers and get C/L/R?


Also, how often do speaker sets recycle? (If I get the C/L/R speakers now will I be able to match them with SL,SR,BSL,BSR a year or two down the road or will they be discontinued?)


Does room size matter that much (Just turn up the volume, right)?

Thanks,

Chris


----------



## afrogt

Your 3 front speakers should be from the same product line. Don't mix Jensens with a $250 center speaker. Jensen isn't known to make very good sounding speakers. You can easily get 3 Polk, Infinity or JBL speakers for $300, a center and two bookshelfs. If you've got $500 to spend you should have no problem being able to find 3 front speakers for that price.


Will extras still be available a year or two down the road? Depends on what brand you buy. If you buy a popular brand like Polk, JBL, Paradigm, etc, if the exact same model is not available two years from now, a similar sounding replacement most likely will be.


A great start would be Infinity Beta 10 and C250. The total would be around $305 shipped.

Infinity Beta 10 - $88ea
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/542179849 


Beta C250 - $129
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/548249891


----------



## jterrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrishallowell* /forum/post/13182268
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I just got the Onkyo TXSR805 refurb receiver for $574.10 shipped.
> 
> Now I'm looking for speakers to fill my 25'x18' living room. 99% TV and movies, 1% music.
> 
> Given all of the suggestions, I'm going to focus on the 3 fronts first. Officially my budget is $300, but I could stretch it to $500 if it's worth sleeping in the garage for a week. Right now we(my wife and I) are using really cheap Jenson bookshelf speakers...
> 
> 
> Should I buy a really good $250 center speaker and keep using the cheap bookshelves until I get more money. Or should I get lower quality speakers and get C/L/R?
> 
> 
> Also, how often do speaker sets recycle? (If I get the C/L/R speakers now will I be able to match them with SL,SR,BSL,BSR a year or two down the road or will they be discontinued?)
> 
> 
> Does room size matter that much (Just turn up the volume, right)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris



Polk r50 x2

Polk CSR

Polk r150 pr

Shipped from Fry's should run just under your budget.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blobula* /forum/post/13151357
> 
> 
> I just received my new pair of Polk Audio RTi8 cherry speakers from Frys this evening and all I can say is WOW. Its hard to believe that I was able to get such a great set of speakers for $149 a piece. They look great and sound wonderful.
> 
> 
> So far I've purchased the Polk RTi8, CSi3, CSR, R300, R150 speakers from Frys mainly due to price.
> 
> 
> The Polk Audio RTi8 speakers are great for the price if anyone is currently looking. I think they a fairly budget friendly as well.
> 
> 
> Here are a few photos of the Polk RTi8 speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a picture of the Polk Audio R300 and Polk Audio RTi8 speakers side-by-side. The Polk R300 is a great speaker as well. Especially for $49 a piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For picture of all the speakers go here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/blobula...7603593777481/




OK tell me if I am seeing this correct. It looks like you have the rubber cones attached to the bottoms of the RTi8, but you do not have the stablizer bar that comes with the speaker and needs attachment. Is the speaker stable enough without it? The reason I ask is because on one side of the tv my speaker footprint is tight, it would be a little less tight without the bar attached on the bottom.


----------



## tedthemechanic

Hi All,


I recently bought a Denon DHT 487DV home theater system. Sounds pretty good. However, i am planning on upgrading just the speakers and sub and selling of the ones that come with the system. I am looking at polk audio RM6750 .. is it worth the upgrade to this speaker set for a little extra money.


Or any other speaker system suggestions.... i also looked at individual speakers and subs ..but they are quite over my budget ....the rm6750 right now is around 250...and i am planning on selling my denon speaker system on craigslist...soo the effective cost wont be too much ...But the most important question is ..are the rm6750 ..any better than the speakers that are included in the denon system..


Thanks all


----------



## blobula




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13186618
> 
> 
> OK tell me if I am seeing this correct. It looks like you have the rubber cones attached to the bottoms of the RTi8, but you do not have the stablizer bar that comes with the speaker and needs attachment. Is the speaker stable enough without it? The reason I ask is because on one side of the tv my speaker footprint is tight, it would be a little less tight without the bar attached on the bottom.



The speakers IMO are not stable enough without the stabilizer bar at the bottom. To be safe I'd recommend putting them on.


----------



## ejn34

Need some help...

I have seen the Klipch Quintet II on sale for 199 bucks. I would really appreciate some input on which set up would be better sounding:


The Onkyo 605 with the Klipsch Quintets and a Dayton sub plus upscaling DVD

(375+199+170+100) = $844

or


the Onyyo 908 HTIB (which includes the 605, 7 speakers and upscaling DVD) for only $699.


I plan to use it with a a Pioneer PDP 5080. I don't need 7.1, a 5.1 system is fine. Didn't want to spend more than $800ish and wanted to get some feedback as to whether the Klipsh Quintets would be a significant improvement over the 908 system and worth the extra 150 bucks. Thank you.


----------



## ORPhD

I am desperately in need of an upgrade to my current ~8.5 year old KLH 5.1 speaker system. To provide some (perhaps humorous) perspective, this, along with my JVC receiver, was bought from the long-defunct 800.com as a sort of HTIB before HTIBs even existed.


I really want a Polk R50/CSM setup, but I unfortunately can't afford even that at the moment (not to mention it wouldn't address my sub, which is on its last legs). While I know (and agree) a stopgap isn't typically the best solution, I hope I have found a compromise and would like any thoughts on this plan.


I have my sights set on the Harman Kardon HKTS-14. I can be patient with the fleabay auctions until I get a decent price ($185 max shipped should not be impossible). This gets me a full upgrade at a price I can afford now. My thinking is that, I would then upgrade the fronts and center at a later date when I can better afford it. Since $185 for a subwoofer alone is on the low side of the list on the first post, it seems this would not be that much more expensive than piecing it together in the first place. Plus, I get 4 satellite speakers to use for the surrounds in an upgraded, 7.1 setup. The only thing being "wasted" at that point would be the center.


These are my two questions:

-I know many user reviews give the 12" 200W subwoofer very good ratings, but does anyone know first hand how it compares with some of the cheaper ones (


----------



## STRGT

Can anybody recommend a set of front speakers to go with my klipsch quintet IIs? Would the polk r50s work? Im looking to upgrade to a 7.1 system.


----------



## rich3286




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ORPhD* /forum/post/13227522
> 
> 
> I am desperately in need of an upgrade to my current ~8.5 year old KLH 5.1 speaker system. To provide some (perhaps humorous) perspective, this, along with my JVC receiver, was bought from the long-defunct 800.com as a sort of HTIB before HTIBs even existed.
> 
> 
> I really want a Polk R50/CSM setup, but I unfortunately can't afford even that at the moment (not to mention it wouldn't address my sub, which is on its last legs). While I know (and agree) a stopgap isn't typically the best solution, I hope I have found a compromise and would like any thoughts on this plan.
> 
> 
> I have my sights set on the Harman Kardon HKTS-14. I can be patient with the fleabay auctions until I get a decent price ($185 max shipped should not be impossible). This gets me a full upgrade at a price I can afford now. My thinking is that, I would then upgrade the fronts and center at a later date when I can better afford it. Since $185 for a subwoofer alone is on the low side of the list on the first post, it seems this would not be that much more expensive than piecing it together in the first place. Plus, I get 4 satellite speakers to use for the surrounds in an upgraded, 7.1 setup. The only thing being "wasted" at that point would be the center.
> 
> 
> These are my two questions:
> 
> -I know many user reviews give the 12" 200W subwoofer very good ratings, but does anyone know first hand how it compares with some of the cheaper ones (


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *STRGT* /forum/post/13230463
> 
> 
> Can anybody recommend a set of front speakers to go with my klipsch quintet IIs? Would the polk r50s work? Im looking to upgrade to a 7.1 system.



If you've already got Klipsch speakers you should stick with same brand. You can get pair of Quintet II speakers on ebay for $100 or less.


Or better yet, buy another 5 piece system for $199 from vanns.com and sell the 3 speakers you don't need on ebay. You'll probably make your money back.


----------



## mc1280

This is a great thread and I'm getting alot of info out of it... Here is my first of I'm sure many questions what would be better for front speakers to build around for a 5.1 (maybe 7.1 in the future)system. The Polk R50's or the Polk Audio R300's? I was just on frys website and saw excellent deals on both. My total budget for everything is 1K but anywhere I can save would help. Would either of these be quality fronts?


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13247898
> 
> 
> This is a great thread and I'm getting alot of info out of it... Here is my first of I'm sure many questions what would be better for front speakers to build around for a 5.1 (maybe 7.1 in the future)system. The Polk R50's or the Polk Audio R300's? I was just on frys website and saw excellent deals on both. My total budget for everything is 1K but anywhere I can save would help. Would either of these be quality fronts?



For movies, you just can't beat the R50s for price/performance at that sale price. Both are a great buy, but for what, $10? more... get the R50s.


I recently put together my own "HTiB" using R50s front, CSR center, and R150s rear, and we're all very happy with it. Already had a decent sub, so I added a decent receiver (Onkyo 505) and for about $600, (again, already had the sub) I've got a system that blows away any HTiB system for even more than that.


Good luck,


----------



## mc1280

Thanks Florida_Gator for the response I ordered the r50's from frys last night!!! My first step towards my new surround system. Looks like you laid out a pretty sweet budget system for me. One thing I keep hearing is that the HK is a better sounding receivers than the onkyo but the onkyos have better connectivity.... what would give me the best mix of sound and connectivity with the above setup.... I was looking at a HK AVR 147 but i keep hearing that the hdmi dosen't pass sound is that correct????


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13254778
> 
> 
> Thanks Florida_Gator for the response I ordered the r50's from frys last night!!! My first step towards my new surround system. Looks like you laid out a pretty sweet budget system for me. One thing I keep hearing is that the HK is a better sounding receivers than the onkyo but the onkyos have better connectivity.... what would give me the best mix of sound and connectivity with the above setup.... I was looking at a HK AVR 147 but i keep hearing that the hdmi dosen't pass sound is that correct????




Wait for the Yamaha 663, it'll be out in the next couple of weeks.
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4219055 


And correct, the 147 doesn't pass sound through HDMI.


----------



## ORPhD

I'm gonna check the official JBL thread too, but are there any opinions here about the JBL Venue series?


Thanks.


----------



## Jswerve

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Polk R150's and the R300's?


----------



## Tulpa

R150s are bookshelf speakers. R300s are floorstanders/towers. R300s also have a slightly larger woofer, and go a bit deeper.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13258562
> 
> 
> R150s are bookshelf speakers. R300s are floorstanders/towers. R300s also have a slightly larger woofer, and go a bit deeper.



Oops I think I meant R50's and R300's?


----------



## Tulpa

Ah. R50s have two woofers to the R300's one. Also, the R50 is slightly taller and puts the tweeter at the top. R300 has the tweeter below the woofer. I think the R50 also goes slightly deeper still, and a few other small spec differences in its favor.


And I think the R300 has a rear port, but I'm not sure. The R50 is front ported.


Visually, the R50's grill goes almost to the base, while the R300 only goes down about a third of the way.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13258680
> 
> 
> Ah. R50s have two woofers to the R300's one. Also, the R50 is slightly taller and puts the tweeter at the top. R300 has the tweeter below the woofer. I think the R50 also goes slightly deeper still, and a few other small spec differences in its favor.
> 
> 
> And I think the R300 has a rear port, but I'm not sure. The R50 is front ported.
> 
> 
> Visually, the R50's grill goes almost to the base, while the R300 only goes down about a third of the way.



I see.. Thanks Tulpa! Are they similar in SQ?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jswerve* /forum/post/13258732
> 
> 
> I see.. Thanks Tulpa! Are they similar in SQ?



For only $10 more per speaker, the R50 definitely sounds better.


----------



## Jswerve

Onkyo TX-SR304 vs TX-SR505 what is the difference besides the 304 is only 5.1?


----------



## Tulpa

505 also does HDMI video switching (although not audio. You'll need separate cables.) I think it also has more inputs, like an extra digital coaxial input. It's a bit more powerful, has the Audyssey calibration system, and probably a few extra bells and whistles. Onkyo's site can go into more detail.

http://www.onkyousa.com 


Oh, and actual speaker wire binding posts on the 505 rather than clips on the 304.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13260107
> 
> 
> 505 also does HDMI video switching (although not audio. You'll need separate cables.) I think it also has more inputs, like an extra digital coaxial input. It's a bit more powerful, has the Audyssey calibration system, and probably a few extra bells and whistles. Onkyo's site can go into more detail.
> 
> http://www.onkyousa.com
> 
> 
> Oh, and actual speaker wire binding posts on the 505 rather than clips on the 304.



Thanks again Tulpa. It's pretty obvious that the 505 is worth the extra 80 bucks.


----------



## supertracks

OK I was going to buy the Onkyo 908 HTIB. But I heard some Polks, the RM95 package, and they were much better sounding. So now I am on the hunt for speakers. I need to go hear these but I thought you all would have some input.


Onkyo 605 I think will be my receiver of choice.


Harmon Kardon HKTS-18 -- Great reviews on Amazon


Polk Audio RM75 -- Again great reviews on Amazon


Polk also has the RM85 and RM95 five speaker sets where I would have to add a sub.


Thanks for any insight!


----------



## Florida_Gator

Speakers are a little tough to give advice on. For example, my Polk R50/CSR/R150 setup is really great for movies and HDTV. But to me, only "good" for music (radio or CDs). But to the rest of my family, and my Dad (who loves jazz -- the older the better), they sound GREAT for music too (they do very well with jazz, I must admit). But if I were buying speakers primarily for music, I'd get different fronts (mains) than the R50s... something like Polk's Rti or Lsi series. So it depends on your tastes, your "pickiness", and what you're going to do with them.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/13269237
> 
> 
> Speakers are a little tough to give advice on. For example, my Polk R50/CSR/R150 setup is really great for movies and HDTV. But to me, only "good" for music (radio or CDs). But to the rest of my family, and my Dad (who loves jazz -- the older the better), they sound GREAT for music too (they do very well with jazz, I must admit). But if I were buying speakers primarily for music, I'd get different fronts (mains) than the R50s... something like Polk's Rti or Lsi series. So it depends on your tastes, your "pickiness", and what you're going to do with them.



Ordered 2x R50's, 1 Pr. R150's , and a CSR from Fry's today...


----------



## bdrex28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13258949
> 
> 
> For only $10 more per speaker, the R50 definitely sounds better.



Are the r50's the same as the Monitor 50's?


I ask because I'd prefer to get some speakers at CC if possible, due to several gift cards and reward coupons.


thanks!


----------



## Tulpa

No, two different series. R series speakers, which includes the R300 and R50, are entry level. The Monitor series is a little more upscale.


----------



## bdrex28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13275330
> 
> 
> No, two different series. R series speakers, which includes the R300 and R50, are entry level. The Monitor series is a little more upscale.



thank you very much for VERY quick answer.


----------



## mc1280

I think I have the system I looking at:


2x Polk R50 (already ordered from frys)

1x Polk CSR

2x Polk R150

BIC Acoustech H-100

Yamaha RX-V663


Question is about the receiver and sub any suggestions? The research I did looked like the the new Yamaha fits my needs and budget for the system (1K) also I see the BIC as the sub of choice for price performance but say I would be willing to spend a little more ($200) are there better options? BTW I don't have the exact measurements but I am in a medium sized room in my basement. Also I have a crap load of stuff to connect (Cable box, PS3,Wii, XBOX 360, HD DVD add on, HD -D3, PS2) should I get an HDMI switcher being that there are only 2 HDMI in ports or do most people have only a couple hdmi devices.... I seem to have well more than 2... how is that handled? Sorry on the wealth of questions I just want to buy everything I need.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13281528
> 
> 
> I think I have the system I looking at:
> 
> 
> 2x Polk R50 (already ordered from frys)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR
> 
> 2x Polk R150
> 
> BIC Acoustech H-100
> 
> Yamaha RX-V663
> 
> 
> Question is about the receiver and sub any suggestions? The research I did looked like the the new Yamaha fits my needs and budget for the system (1K) also I see the BIC as the sub of choice for price performance but say I would be willing to spend a little more ($200) are there better options? BTW I don't have the exact measurements but I am in a medium sized room in my basement. Also I have a crap load of stuff to connect (Cable box, PS3,Wii, XBOX 360, HD DVD add on, HD -D3, PS2) should I get an HDMI switcher being that there are only 2 HDMI in ports or do most people have only a couple hdmi devices.... I seem to have well more than 2... how is that handled? Sorry on the wealth of questions I just want to buy everything I need.



Grats. I am piecing a system together as well and started with:


Polk CSR

Polk R50 (2)

Polk R150 (pr)


All from Frys. 3 Separate orders saved me quite a bit in shipping. I, too, am leaning toward the H-100 but probably the Onkyo 605 as I have been a satisfied Onkyo customer since '93.


----------



## GadgetBoy2007

I have received part of my 5.1 setup:


Polk R50 x2 (Front L/R) Frys

Polk R15 x2 (Surround) Ebay

Polk CSR (Center)

BIC H-100 Sub (going to order - Ebay)

Receiver - On the fence between Onkyo 605 and upcoming Yammi 663


----------



## mc1280

2x Polk R50 (already ordered from frys)

1x Polk CSR

2x Polk R150

BIC Acoustech H-100

Yamaha RX-V663



Any ideas I'm thinking about replacing the the BIC with a Cadence CSX-15 and also would I be better served with a better center say a Csi3 or with these changes would i need to overhaul my entire setup. Maybe I'm just over thinking things.


----------



## Franke46

Using the onkyo HTIB price of $999 as a budget, I find that I have lots of options when it comes to speakers.


The onkyo 605 can be had for about $350


That leaves me 650 for 2 towers and a center channel, I have an old bazooka tube that I'm using as subwoofer, it works fine.


So basically I wanted to buy the 2 CST jbl towers and the center channel. However these are almost $200 a piece, and the cetner about 150. There are lots of tower speakers that can be found now for less than 200 a piece, including the infinity primus P362, the JBL venue stadium and many others, my head is spinning.


Unfortunately I don't think I have any good places around where to audition speakers in this price range. I heard the JBLs CST at frys and they sounded much clearer than the infinity, although when it came to music, some nearby polk 10's did abetter job. But this is for HT, mostly movies and sports, could it be that the smaller 5 inch driver does a better job at dialog than 8 the inch drivers on the polk?


What do you think are the best tower speakers that can be had for less than $200 delivered a piece? or $550 set with center channel?


Thanks


Franke46


----------



## mc1280

Ok I'm down to the Sub my space is 18 x 12 x 8 (1728 cubic feet) basically a rectangle (I'm actually viewing from the width so I sit exactly 8 feet from my setup) .The question is the subs I narrowed it down to are Cadence CSX-12 or CSX-15 do I need the 15 for that space? $400 dollars shipped is my absolute max for a sub. Also with that receiver should I order 2 more R150's to go 7.1? Thanks in advance!My current system is below:


2x Polk R50 (arrived from frys yay!!!)

2x Polk R150 (on order from frys)

1x Polk CSR (on order from frys)

Yamaha RX-V663 (pre order from J&R got a great deals on this)


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13308044
> 
> 
> Ok I'm down to the Sub my space is 18 x 12 x 8 (1728 cubic feet) basically a rectangle (I'm actually viewing from the width so I sit exactly 8 feet from my setup) .The question is the subs I narrowed it down to are Cadence CSX-12 or CSX-15 do I need the 15 for that space? $400 dollars shipped is my absolute max for a sub. Also with that receiver should I order 2 more R150's to go 7.1? Thanks in advance!My current system is below:
> 
> 
> 2x Polk R50 (arrived from frys yay!!!)
> 
> 2x Polk R150 (on order from frys)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR (on order from frys)
> 
> Yamaha RX-V663 (pre order from J&R got a great deals on this)



Nice. My speakers are en route as we speak. Got the exact speakers from Frys what a deal!


----------



## bdrex28

I tried to get the R50's but they were sold out , I doubt they will re-stock but here's hoping.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13308044
> 
> 
> Ok I'm down to the Sub my space is 18 x 12 x 8 (1728 cubic feet) basically a rectangle (I'm actually viewing from the width so I sit exactly 8 feet from my setup) .The question is the subs I narrowed it down to are Cadence CSX-12 or CSX-15 do I need the 15 for that space? $400 dollars shipped is my absolute max for a sub. Also with that receiver should I order 2 more R150's to go 7.1? Thanks in advance!My current system is below:
> 
> 
> 2x Polk R50 (arrived from frys yay!!!)
> 
> 2x Polk R150 (on order from frys)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR (on order from frys)
> 
> Yamaha RX-V663 (pre order from J&R got a great deals on this)



The CSX 15 is a pretty nice sub...my son absolutely loves his in a smaller room. I think there's still a wait, you should give them a call. On that note, they periodically have online coupon codes that reduce the price for both models. Speaking of the CSX 12, a friend bought one and I got a listen. It's been awhile since I heard the Bic, but my gut tells me the CSX 12 is the better performer. It's considerably louder and cleaner than the previous Cadence XSub 12 which was very close to the Bic.

The CSX 15 is a definite step up from the 12. Hope this helps.


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdrex28* /forum/post/13310265
> 
> 
> I tried to get the R50's but they were sold out , I doubt they will re-stock but here's hoping.



Bummer, glad I pulled the trigger then!


----------



## mc1280




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13310419
> 
> 
> The CSX 15 is a pretty nice sub...my son absolutely loves his in a smaller room. I think there's still a wait, you should give them a call. On that note, they periodically have online coupon codes that reduce the price for both models. Speaking of the CSX 12, a friend bought one and I got a listen. It's been awhile since I heard the Bic, but my gut tells me the CSX 12 is the better performer. It's considerably louder and cleaner than the previous Cadence XSub 12 which was very close to the Bic.
> 
> The CSX 15 is a definite step up from the 12. Hope this helps.



Thanks! for the input RT!!! I appreciate it!! I think I'm gonna go balls to the wall and just buy the CSX-15. It is no problem for me to wait being that I have to wait for the receiver from J&R. Well thanks for the help I'll definitely check back in when I get it all setup.


----------



## willy0505

I just wanted to pose my meager potential HT set up to see if anyone has any alternative ideas or may suggest better components. The only problem (limiting factor) is that I only have a 6" space (height) for my receiver. Hence going with the Panasonic....


1. Panasonic XR57 for the Receiver - $250

2. Klipsch Quintet II (5.1) - $200

3. Dayton Sub 100 - $155


Also - had one more question regarding the Klipsch - do they actually have grill covers on them - I cannot seem to find any pictures with a grill nor can I find them at any dealers.


Thanks for the help


----------



## ihatetheteevee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willy0505* /forum/post/13315960
> 
> 
> I just wanted to pose my meager potential HT set up to see if anyone has any alternative ideas or may suggest better components. The only problem (limiting factor) is that I only have a 6" space (height) for my receiver. Hence going with the Panasonic....
> 
> 
> 1. Panasonic XR57 for the Receiver - $250
> 
> 2. Klipsch Quintet II (5.1) - $200
> 
> 3. Dayton Sub 100 - $155
> 
> 
> Also - had one more question regarding the Klipsch - do they actually have grill covers on them - I cannot seem to find any pictures with a grill nor can I find them at any dealers.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help



Wow that's the same setup I've been considering. I was actually not thinking dayton sub too much (please talk me into it, it'd save me some money). I might go with the velodyne vx-10c for a 150 at frys. I wish I could find that receiver (i'd even go for the 55) more widely available. It seems like nobody carries it for some reason.


I have the Klipsch's here but nothing to hook them too yet. they feel decent =) fwiw.


-Glen


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ihatetheteevee* /forum/post/13316462
> 
> 
> Wow that's the same setup I've been considering. I was actually not thinking dayton sub too much (please talk me into it, it'd save me some money). I might go with the velodyne vx-10c for a 150 at frys. I wish I could find that receiver (i'd even go for the 55) more widely available. It seems like nobody carries it for some reason.
> 
> 
> I have the Klipsch's here but nothing to hook them too yet. they feel decent =) fwiw.
> 
> 
> -Glen



I've tried the Dayton Sub 120 and I won't try to talk you into it because I was completely unsatisfied with it, I use my system for alot of music though which is were I was disappointed. If you're using it for strictly HT then it you might be ok with it, you won't find a sub with the output it has anywhere near the price, it will shake things up like no other 

For a combination of HT and Music at the price I think the VX-10 is a better way to go. You do loose some low end extension and headroom with it in comparison to the Dayton 12" but it's a much better quality sounding sub imo, music has more punch and defineation and it provides enough for HT for most sane people unless they are a total bass head







.


I doubt you'll find the XR-55 receiver except maybe ebay, they have been discontinued. You can still find the XR-57 at the same price Willy posted at J&R which is an authorized dealer. These receivers are praised for their sound quality. Their smaller form factor is also a plus for a lot of people and they run cooler due to the digital amps. You can find threads on both of them in the receiver forum.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc...ed.PAN+SAXR57K


----------



## sourbeef

2 X Polk Rit8 fronts

1 X Polk Csi-A4 center

2 X Polk Fxi-A4 for surrounds

1 X SVS SB12-plus for sub (my sweet "Rosie" [rosenut finish])


Onkyo HT-SR705 receiver

Rocketfish Wireless Kit - works great with surrounds!


I hope to get a Panasonic Blu-ray when the new one comes out in spring.


Panasonic 58PZ700 bought in mid-January is what started all this


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13322795
> 
> 
> 2 X Polk Rit8 fronts
> 
> 1 X Polk Csi-A4 center
> 
> 2 X Polk Fxi-A4 for surrounds
> 
> 1 X SVS SB12-plus (my sweet "Rosie" [rosenut finish])
> 
> 
> Onkyo HT-SR705 receiver
> 
> Rocketfish Wireless Kit - works great with surrounds!
> 
> 
> I hope to get a Panasonic Blu-ray when the new one comes out in spring.
> 
> 
> Panasonic 58PZ700 bought in mid-January is what started all this



Very nice setup. I just bought the R series speakers since Fry's was insanely cheap. Awaiting my TX-SR605 from Amazon.


Rocketfish Wireless Kit? Never heard of it, gonna google it now.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13322795
> 
> 
> 2 X Polk Rit8 fronts
> 
> 1 X Polk Csi-A4 center
> 
> 2 X Polk Fxi-A4 for surrounds
> 
> 1 X SVS SB12-plus (my sweet "Rosie" [rosenut finish])
> 
> 
> Onkyo HT-SR705 receiver
> 
> Rocketfish Wireless Kit - works great with surrounds!
> 
> 
> I hope to get a Panasonic Blu-ray when the new one comes out in spring.
> 
> 
> Panasonic 58PZ700 bought in mid-January is what started all this



I remember a few years ago...The argument was getting a better sounding solution at the same price point as HTIB. It's certainly evolved. I guess many folks that aren't as budget constrained find it easier to get direction and answers on this thread than sorting through mounds of data in Speakers, Subs and Amps and Recieivers.


sourbeef, even though you scored the closeout pricing for the most part...that ain't a budget system, it's a very nice setup. Congrats


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13323257
> 
> 
> I remember a few years ago...The argument was getting a better sounding solution at the same price point as HTIB. It's certainly evolved. I guess many folks that aren't as budget constrained find it easier to get direction and answers on this thread than sorting through mounds of data in Speakers, Subs and Amps and Recieivers.
> 
> 
> sourbeef, even though you scored the closeout pricing for the most part...that ain't a budget system, it's a very nice setup. Congrats



Agree...not budget, nice build.


I will have about $850 invested myself...


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13323257
> 
> 
> I remember a few years ago...The argument was getting a better sounding solution at the same price point as HTIB. It's certainly evolved. I guess many folks that aren't as budget constrained find it easier to get direction and answers on this thread than sorting through mounds of data in Speakers, Subs and Amps and Recieivers.
> 
> 
> sourbeef, even though you scored the closeout pricing for the most part...*that ain't a budget system, it's a very nice setup*. Congrats



Don't I know it







... and thank you.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13323257
> 
> 
> I remember a few years ago...The argument was getting a better sounding solution at the same price point as HTIB. It's certainly evolved. I guess many folks that aren't as budget constrained find it easier to get direction and answers on this thread than sorting through mounds of data in Speakers, Subs and Amps and Recieivers.
> 
> *sourbeef, even though you scored the closeout pricing for the most part...that ain't a budget system,* it's a very nice setup. Congrats



Ron, I just realized why you wrote this. I suppose most people who posted to this thread, even though they decided against a traditional HTIB, are still on a tight budget....But honestly, I fully intended, as recently as 1 month ago, to spend roughly $700/$800 on a HTIB. But it was reading through this thread, and the other forums on Speakers/Receivers/Subs that made me reevaluate my plans. Yes, I blew my original budget for sure. $2,700 on the Polk speakers, SVS sub, Onkyo receiver, Rocketfish Wireless, and some accessories. Am I happy I went this route? Heck yeah!


----------



## mc1280

I know what also might help some people.... I've been looking for some stands and mounts you veterans what sites have quality mounts stands and so forth?... I'm really looking for a good TV top mount for my center channel speaker... I know Monoprice is excellent for cables and such but what about other accessories?


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13325951
> 
> 
> I know what also might help some people.... I've been looking for some stands and mounts you veterans what sites have quality mounts stands and so forth?... I'm really looking for a good TV top mount for my center channel speaker... I know Monoprice is excellent for cables and such but what about other accessories?



I need some rear surround speaker stands that will get the tweets above ear level. Looking for suggestions as well. I am using R150's.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13324495
> 
> 
> Ron, I just realized why you wrote this. I suppose most people who posted to this thread, even though they decided against a traditional HTIB, are still on a tight budget....But honestly, I fully intended, as recently as 1 month ago, to spend roughly $700/$800 on a HTIB. But it was reading through this thread, and the other forums on Speakers/Receivers/Subs that made me reevaluate my plans. Yes, I blew my original budget for sure. $2,700 on the Polk speakers, SVS sub, Onkyo receiver, Rocketfish Wireless, and some accessories. Am I happy I went this route? Heck yeah!



I wrote it because it's true. I started at AVS on this HTIB forum and probably the first 200 posts were praising the Onkyo 770 and arguing with JohnRinLA, who tried to open our eyes to better things. It didn't take long, then away I went. For a year or so, several of us posted alternatives trying religously to find deals for users hoping to stay within HTIB pricepoints. Finally, I moved on. Last year, G-star started this thread...great stuff, so I drop in from time to time. However, it's now focused on answering system questions and not as much on budget, which is important, but if you look at HT purchases like appliances...well, you get it. Spending more on quality will pay off over the long run and be more enjoyable during the journey. Finding out what's quality with entry level knowledge, is what this thread helps most with.


----------



## mfromb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13328160
> 
> 
> For a year or so, several of us posted alternatives trying religously to find deals for users hoping to stay within HTIB pricepoints.



For what it's worth, whether reflective of the primary, current thread intent or not, I used this thread to do just what is quoted above.


Having a wife, 4 kids, college loans due, etc., while I earn pretty well, I'm always mindful of 'price/performance' and matching my real/actual (as opposed to most desired!) performance needs with equipment that I see bringing me that performance with the value equation firmly in mind.


As a result, when I finally decided it was time to get into HDTV, I opted for a Sharp LC46D64U bundle (from *******.com, which brought me the bundled Sharp Blu-Ray player AND a *free* Sanus TV Stand, all for a really solid price in comparison to any other vendor I could find, at the time and especially with the need for a no-frills, highly functional stand in mind). The Sharp decision was based largely on information from AVS Forum, and heavily influenced by the pricing/bundle at the time. It's a perfect match for my current needs.


In the same spirit, I put together a solid 'budget-minded' HT setup, after initially figuring on something like an Onkyo HT-800 as meeting my A/V needs and matching my pre-determined budget for this purpose. I ended up purchasing:


- Manufacturer re-certified Onkyo 505 receiver (from eCost.com - resellerratings nightmare, but they did right by me and they are authorized by Onkyo to sell/distribute their refurb units).

- Dayon HTS-1200 speaker kit (Center w/4 Sats) + Dayton Sub-100 bundle from partsexpress.com

- Cables (speaker, optical, hdmi, etc.) from monoprice.com


I found myself with exactly what I was looking for in a budget-minded HT setup AND I firmly believe I improved on the Onkyo HT-800 HTIB in terms of overall price/performance. This was done with thanks to this thread and with alot of thanks to a few specific contributors who recognized that 'best' for someone's specific application doesn't always mean top-tier or expensive or even 'the best audio reproduction'. For me, best was about meeting/exceeding my price/performance goals, remaining at/under budget, and realizing my "good enough" audio needs for my current HT intentions.


Sure, I could 'afford' go out and drop $10,000 or more on a HT/HDTV setup... but, it's not what I really need right now based on the room I'm using it in and the 'intended audience'. Also, the money I saved overall has so many more important uses for me, at this point in time that I couldn't cost-justify going with a more audiophile minded system. One day, when (if?!?) I reclaim my finished basement and dedicate the space to a 'true' home theater, I'll surely drop some more serious money on both the Audio AND the Video equipment. But, right now... I'm relaxing in our multifunction family room with the wife and kids, enjoying our investment with zero concerns about having either overspent or under-specified for what we wanted.


Kudos to the HTIB Alternative thread!


mark


----------



## Kingcarcas

Hey guys i got my R150s, i will be using them for the front for now. I'm wondering if i should go with 14 or 16AWG (5ft. away) speaker wire from monoprice? Also what's the difference with open or closed screw banana plugs? Would it look neater if got the sleeved for in-wall installation wire instead of the bare type??


----------



## lockmart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13324495
> 
> 
> Ron, I just realized why you wrote this. I suppose most people who posted to this thread, even though they decided against a traditional HTIB, are still on a tight budget....But honestly, I fully intended, as recently as 1 month ago, to spend roughly $700/$800 on a HTIB. But it was reading through this thread, and the other forums on Speakers/Receivers/Subs that made me reevaluate my plans. Yes, I blew my original budget for sure. $2,700 on the Polk speakers, SVS sub, Onkyo receiver, Rocketfish Wireless, and some accessories. Am I happy I went this route? Heck yeah!



It started simple enough for me too, sell the Bose gear and replace it with the proceeds. I ended up with:


Rti-8's mains

Rti-4's surrounds

Csi-3 center

Bic H100 sub

Onkyo 705 refurb (replaced with new Yamaha RX-V663)

All new cables / wires

Omnimount for the center


All for just a little over $1400. It was well worth it though.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kingcarcas* /forum/post/13339092
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if i should go with 14 or 16AWG (*5ft*. away) speaker wire from monoprice?



Absolutely no difference.


----------



## yanksno1

So mfromb, a few questions for ya hope you don't mind. Have you set up your speakers yet? What size room you got? I saw at PartsExpress people gave good reviews on them but I'm always weary of store site reviews. This might be what I'm looking for, my room's about 8x15.


----------



## mfromb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yanksno1* /forum/post/13347203
> 
> 
> So mfromb, a few questions for ya hope you don't mind. Have you set up your speakers yet? What size room you got? I saw at PartsExpress people gave good reviews on them but I'm always weary of store site reviews. This might be what I'm looking for, my room's about 8x15.



Yes, I've had them set up for a few weeks, now. My room is about 13x15. For the MONEY, I don't see how this setup could be beat for home theater use, really. Anything in this price range that I've seen/heard is relative 'junk' by comparison.


Mind you, the Dayton HTS + Sub kits won't win audiophile awards, but I would see them as a clear step up from the speaker/sub sets that ship with things like the Onkyo HT-800 and other simlarly kitted speaker sets on the budget HT systems. There aren't many (or any?) 5.1 speaker sets that can compete with comparably sound quality, in the same or similar price range, really. For something that is decidely 'budget', they are worth every penny and then some, in my opinion.


Sure, for MORE MONEY, you can beat them.. that's easy enough to do. The question is, for how much more money and is it something you want to spend for your particular application/needs?


After having written off the similarly priced Polk RM6750 5.1 speaker kit as somewhat inferior (and after seeing/hearing the Dayton's in person, I'm glad I did), the only other set I was giving serious consideration to would have been the deal at frys.com on the Polk R-150's + Polk CSR (I would have added same Dayton Sub, or tried to find a deal on a somewhat better sub, like a Bic100, perhaps)... but that would have cost me another $150+ (using same sub) or another $200-250 (using the Bic sub (ebay)), putting me over my pre-determined budget and out of scope for what I was trying to accomplish. Would it have been a better overall sound system? I don't doubt that it would have been (though I haven't heard the Polk R150/CSR in person). But, again... at added cost. You can always do better... it almost always requires spending more money, is all. ;-D The question for me was the price/performance and value equation, for my particular goals/needs. I hit that nail on the head, in my book.


My final price, for the Onkyo 505 (ecost, onkyo refurb) + Dayton HTS-1200 and Sub-100 (partsexpress) + misc. cables, speaker wire, and connectors was $470.75 delivered to my door. I'm very happy to have hesitated on my very original intent to get an Oknyo HT-800. It paid off, in the end.


more detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post13070215 


Can't beat that with a stick, when you consider all the pieces together compared to anything else in that price range. As an aside, I can't say enough about the cables I've picked up at Monoprice. The speaker wire, optical cables, the subwoofer RCA cable, banana clips, all great stuff and so much less expensive than what I would have ever expected to pay. The HDMI cables I bought earlier, for my TV/DVD/Cable box connections were also terrific quality. Zero complaints and so inexpensive that it's downright shameful to see BB, CC, Radio Shack, etc. pimping their wares for so much $$.


Best of luck to you, in finding what you're looking for.


mark


----------



## Unoriginal Name

I am looking to upgrade my receiver I am currently using. However, I am having a hard time deciding what I would need in a receiver. I have a HDTV and a HD-A2 dvd player. I also have digital cable but not high-def, I only get the free local high def stations. Maybe in the future I will upgrade to high-def cable. Anyway I digress. I really don't have a problem with not being able to pass audio with HDMI, it would be nice but it certainly isn't a dealbreaker for me.


My question is what receiver would you suggest? I have been looking at HK because a lot of people rave about the sound. I have been checking out the AVR-247, but would that be overkill for me? What would I lose performance wise if I went to a 147 or even a 146?


Someone also had suggested a Onkyo 605. Would that be overkill for what I have? What would I lose performance wise if I stepped down to the 505?


I am looking to spend


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Name* /forum/post/13365817
> 
> 
> I am looking to upgrade my receiver I am currently using. However, I am having a hard time deciding what I would need in a receiver. I have a HDTV and a HD-A2 dvd player. I also have digital cable but not high-def, I only get the free local high def stations. Maybe in the future I will upgrade to high-def cable. Anyway I digress. I really don't have a problem with not being able to pass audio with HDMI, it would be nice but it certainly isn't a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> 
> My question is what receiver would you suggest? I have been looking at HK because a lot of people rave about the sound. I have been checking out the AVR-247, but would that be overkill for me? What would I lose performance wise if I went to a 147 or even a 146?
> 
> 
> Someone also had suggested a Onkyo 605. Would that be overkill for what I have? What would I lose performance wise if I stepped down to the 505?
> 
> 
> I am looking to spend


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Name* /forum/post/13365817
> 
> 
> I am looking to upgrade my receiver I am currently using. However, I am having a hard time deciding what I would need in a receiver. I have a HDTV and a HD-A2 dvd player. I also have digital cable but not high-def, I only get the free local high def stations. Maybe in the future I will upgrade to high-def cable. Anyway I digress. I really don't have a problem with not being able to pass audio with HDMI, it would be nice but it certainly isn't a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> 
> My question is what receiver would you suggest? I have been looking at HK because a lot of people rave about the sound. I have been checking out the AVR-247, but would that be overkill for me? What would I lose performance wise if I went to a 147 or even a 146?
> 
> 
> Someone also had suggested a Onkyo 605. Would that be overkill for what I have? What would I lose performance wise if I stepped down to the 505?
> 
> 
> I am looking to spend


----------



## crfracer290

I was first looking at a HTIB but found out pretty quickly that better quality can be had for the same price if you buy the speakers separately.


My budget is about 600 dollars for the whole system. (Receiver, 5.1 speakers, sub, wire).

Right now I am looking at the Onkyo 505 for the receiver,4x Polk Audio R150s and Polk CSR for the speakers. I am not too sure on what sub, but it would have to be around 200 to keep me in my budget.


Anyone have any suggestions? Are the speakers and receiver I mentioned above a solid choice for the price?


Thanks


----------



## Tulpa

The speakers and receiver are fine.


Is that $200 including shipping? If so, the Velodyne VX10 or the Dayton Sub 12. If you can fudge a little more for shipping, Bic Acoustech H-100 for $249 through eBay/Overstock.com. Or the AV123 X-Sub if you can wait. All are solid choices.


----------



## sandworms

to all contributors... hopefully you can read through the boring stuff and get to the juicy end. being that i had to keep up with the jones's and that eyeing plasma tv's makes me drool, i picked up my panny th50px77u in august. love it, obviously, it goes in my 14' x 18' room where i sit 10' away so 720p is all i need. well of course i have to complete the home theater ( if thats ever possible ) and i went shopping for htib, ya know cheap n lazy way out. so for christmas my ol gets me a panny ht to go with the tv. while she did that i started googling best htib and found for the same price the onkyo 904. aside from the fact the panny receiver locked up we returned it and got the onkyo. well you know i'm not done







so still not satisfied i tell the ol ( thats old lady ) i continued major research to be sure i was making the rt move. and every night lookin for the best price, sure enough i see the 908 for the same price online as the store price for the 904. well i finally stumble into this forum by chance.

anybody still reading lol, well viewing all the posts in here i decide that htib may not be the best route, and i suck it up and get off my butt and do some minor research. you guys rave about polk and i liked their prices so i shopped comparable prices to the 908. i'll finish the long story with what i decided on


frt mon 50

cen csi3

rear mon 30

sub psw110

all cherry

oppo 980


i am now in possesion of all, at about $1300 ish. maybe a little over the original $500 the ol spent at christmas, but, according to avs members this should be a better set-up. hopefully i bought the rt suff for a newbie. i'll be setting up soon, wish me luck

cheers


----------



## sandworms

oops forgot, got the onk 605 as the rec.

sorry, not much of a typist or for being comprehendable sometimes


----------



## carlosnindy

I just finished upgrading a friend from a 15 year old 48" Mitsubishi Projection tv with a bose system with 2 speakers and a sub to the following:


61" Samsung DLP 1080P TV with Stand from Sam's Club

Onkyo 605 from Amazon

Polk Monitor 70's open box for a Circuit City Warehouse Store

Polk Monitor 30's from Amazon

Polk CS1 from Amazon

Samsung BluRay from Amazon

JBL 12" 500 Venue series Sub from Amazon


Sound is amazing. Picture is amazing. Total price was even better. Everything was purchased, delivered, and set up for less than $3200.


----------



## buzzy_

FYI ... maybe surrounds for someone's Boston system - Micro 120x $40 each shipped (slowly but free) - a few user comments there ...

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206594833 


One Call has some other stuff in this line too


BTW, if white works for what you need, the NHT SuperZero XU at One Call for $69 ea is worth a look


----------



## mc1280

Well my Yammi 663 arrived so below is the tally:


2x Polk R50 (arrived from frys yay!!!)

2x Polk R150 (arrived from frys)

1x Polk CSR (arrived from frys)

Yamaha RX-V663 (it arrived today!!!!!)

Cadence CSX-15 (won't arrive until April 15th)

Monoprice cables and accessories (arrived!!!)


I'm going with the Cadence CSX-15 for the sub but it won't be available until April 15th. So the question is how should I set this up until then should I just basically set up the fronts and wait for the sub for the center and surrounds? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!!!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mc1280* /forum/post/13423180
> 
> 
> Well my Yammi 663 arrived so below is the tally:
> 
> 
> 2x Polk R50 (arrived from frys yay!!!)
> 
> 2x Polk R150 (arrived from frys)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR (arrived from frys)
> 
> Yamaha RX-V663 (it arrived today!!!!!)
> 
> Cadence CSX-15 (won't arrive until April 15th)
> 
> Monoprice cables and accessories (arrived!!!)
> 
> 
> I'm going with the Cadence CSX-15 for the sub but it won't be available until April 15th. So the question is how should I set this up until then should I just basically set up the fronts and wait for the sub for the center and surrounds? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!!!!



You're going to like your system. Read your manual and go through the auto setup. It won't find the sub...you'll be fine. When the sub comes, just run setup again and it will detect the sub. You'll have to go through the menus to verify that the sub is setup, the proper LFE setting is applied, etc. It's really not that complicated. However, I recommend you get a SPL meter from Radio Shack to fine tune your setup and get the best blend between your sub and mains. You'd think that once you get setup you'll never use it again. Not true...you'll use it all the time.


Come back here if something doesn't jive...you're going to like the CSX 15


----------



## sandworms

what i was hoping for was some sort of consolation regarding my speaker choice vs cost/value/quality... it would be awesome if ron or g-star or any of the other superior intellects to grade my system. i read about the svs, epiks, hsu, mfws and so on but wasn't sure any of those were in the $250 range. i am very grateful to all members for the incredible advice and hope to one day free myself from second guessing every htib alt choice i make


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandworms* /forum/post/13431512
> 
> 
> what i was hoping for was some sort of consolation regarding my speaker choice vs cost/value/quality... it would be awesome if ron or g-star or any of the other superior intellects to grade my system. i read about the svs, epiks, hsu, mfws and so on but wasn't sure any of those were in the $250 range. i am very grateful to all members for the incredible advice and hope to one day free myself from second guessing every htib alt choice i make



You've got your system and I'm sure it's great. The new Monitors were named after the older versions for a reason. They were great speakers sold at reasonable prices. They are still sought after and are considered classics. The only review I've seen recently were the Monitor 30s surprising the panel compared with brands that have stellar ID reputations. I'd assume the M50s are better. Congratulations. Check Audioholics.


As far as subs go, the brands you mentioned start in the $400-$600 range and are much more capable the the Polk sub. However, yours has been improved and will definitely give you a nice bottom. There isn't an HTIB that's close to your system, so enjoy it.


----------



## sandworms

i knew i could count on you, ron, you are the man, and your experience and advice mean a great deal to me. being a novice and av challenged, i heed the words of superior intellects in this insanely complex field. once i started researching my ht, i found more acronyms and sound theories to once again prove how little i know about yet another subject that at one time i thought was straight forward. i got it all set up last night and in time i hope to tweak

the system for optimal performance. which, again, will take much research and following the advice from learned individuals such as ron temple and the other htib experimentors.... thanx again, you obviously don't have to be in avs schooling guys like me and i appreciate the time.


onkyo 605

mon 50's

csi3

mon 30's

psw110

oppo 980


hey, it's a start!


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandworms* /forum/post/13412249
> 
> 
> to all contributors... hopefully you can read through the boring stuff and get to the juicy end. being that i had to keep up with the jones's and that eyeing plasma tv's makes me drool, i picked up my panny th50px77u in august. love it, obviously, it goes in my 14' x 18' room where i sit 10' away so 720p is all i need. well of course i have to complete the home theater ( if thats ever possible ) and i went shopping for htib, ya know cheap n lazy way out. so for christmas my ol gets me a panny ht to go with the tv. while she did that i started googling best htib and found for the same price the onkyo 904. aside from the fact the panny receiver locked up we returned it and got the onkyo. well you know i'm not done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so still not satisfied i tell the ol ( thats old lady ) i continued major research to be sure i was making the rt move. and every night lookin for the best price, sure enough i see the 908 for the same price online as the store price for the 904. well i finally stumble into this forum by chance.
> 
> anybody still reading lol, well viewing all the posts in here i decide that htib may not be the best route, and i suck it up and get off my butt and do some minor research. you guys rave about polk and i liked their prices so i shopped comparable prices to the 908. i'll finish the long story with what i decided on
> 
> 
> frt mon 50
> 
> cen csi3
> 
> rear mon 30
> 
> sub psw110
> 
> all cherry
> 
> oppo 980
> 
> 
> i am now in possesion of all, at about $1300 ish. maybe a little over the original $500 the ol spent at christmas, but, according to avs members this should be a better set-up. hopefully i bought the rt suff for a newbie. i'll be setting up soon, wish me luck
> 
> cheers



Congrats! I am sure this will serve you and your ears much better than the average HTIB. I went with Polk speakers too, so I can vouch for their nice sound too. SVS sub though, and Onkyo 705 receiver. I am more than happy, and I imagine you will be too







.


----------



## voodoojohn

I've done my research and have tentatively decided on the following setup:


ALL PRICES INCLUDE SHIPPING/TAXES

TV: Panasonic 42PX80U ($999.98)

Receiver: Onkyo SR604 ($295.19)

Fronts: Polk Monitor 50s ($259.98)

Center: Polk Monitor CS1 ($99.97)

Rears: Polk Monitor 30s ($148.72)

Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100 ($250.00)
*Total Price: $2,053.84*


This setup is for a fairly small apartment living room. My first home theater ever!


I will be playing PS3/Wii, watching Blu Ray, and primarly HD primetime TV and sports. Please voice any concerns or comments you have about the setup (and price) and any suggestions you have for components that might be of higher quality at a similar pricepoint.


To give an example, I had been leaning towards the Marantz 4001 (which I can get for around $330) due its supposed superior SQ over the Onkyo, but later heard that the Onkyo is a better match for the Polks.


Thank you, in advance, for your help!


----------



## smracing

I originally was going with the Panasonic PT-105, but thanks to you guys I put together a much better system. It cost quite abit more, but I love it. Here is the set up.


Panasonic TH-50PH10UKA $1425

Onkyo 505 $160

Phillips DVP3960/37 $50

Directv HDR21 $99

LCR Athena WS-60 $300

Surrounds Athena WS-15 $80

Bic H100 $240


I bought the Onkyo for $160 shipped from shoponkyo. I must say that this is a great receiver. I don't use it for the video, since the tv has 2 hdmi inputs. I love the sub, it performs great for music and movies. Some of you guys say that the H100 is not that great, but the average guy will be blown away. Anyone who is thinking about going this way will not be disappointed. The athena's are a great looking speaker. My whole setup looks clean and gets the approval of our interior designer. This whole upgrade started because she said the "eyesore" had to go. (my old RCA 54"). Once again, thank you for helping me put together a great budget setup.


----------



## fshagan

I was looking at a refurbished HTiB from Onkyo, but after reading a bit, I decided to reassess my needs. We don't really want a full-on 7.1 system, and really would probably be happier with just a 2.1 or possibly a 5.1 system.

*Equipment:*

36" tube TV (Toshiba - not HD and stereo sound from TV is muddy)

Dish 721 DVR

Insignia DVD/VHS Recorder/Player (dubs both ways)

Planned: 6 Disc CD player (DVD player plays single CDs now), or a MP3 player/streamer

*Room:*

Sunken family room 12' w x 15' long. Seating at about 10 - 12' from system. Tile floor, with one wall taken up with hard surfaces ... a brick fireplace and sliding glass window. Back of room is open to dining area and kitchen. Low volumes are heard well in this room.

*System Usage:*

TV, standard def: 75%

Music: 20% (pop, adult contemporary, jazz)

DVD/movies: 5%

No gaming, no loud movies or loud music. I guess I'm old now.


So rather than a HT-SR600 system from shoponkyo.com for $199, I'm buying components. I ordered the Polk R150 for $49.99 from Frys.com (about $75 for the pair with shipping). I'm also planning on buying a TX-SR304 Receiver (refurbished) from shoponkyo, $109 shipped after a $10 discount. That may be all we need at first. I'm hoping it sounds better than the Toshiba TV speakers.


I may want a Velodyne VX10 Subwoofer from Amazon (ElectronicsExpo), $138 plus shipping, although I may be happy with the sound from the Polk R150s. With the sub, the cost is slightly more than the HT-SR600 system, but I think for our needs, it will work and sound a bit better. I can then add a center if we feel we need it, and another pair of Polk R150s to round out the 5.1. Because of the room configuration, rear speakers are probably more trouble to install than they are worth, so the Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver seems right to me.


My last foray into the world of a HTiB was a disaster with the family. To simplify the number of buttons to push, I may get a MX-500 remote or Harmony 880.


Comments are welcome and appreciated. Any big flaws in this plan?


----------



## sandworms

good deal, glad to hear you have a similar system. i was really struggling with the sub and receiver selection, being a novice and unsure of brand quality.i would love to have the resources to have all the products i've researched to compare side by side, but, that would consume whats left of my time on earth. i know i could have gone a couple hundred more for this, another hundred more for that, but, the economy the way it is i wanted to stay safely in my comfort zone. the 705 sounds real nice as do the svs sub, in addition, smracing seems to have a stellar set-up, haven't heard the reviews on the athenas yet, they do look tasty. i do wish i could have sampled each sub, makes me question my choice! the boss was getting tired of my lack of attention to her and i wanted peace on the homefront so i stuck with all polk.

everybody keep the htib alt talk comin


----------



## fshagan

Glad I found this thread; I was looking first at those executive bookshelf stereo systems, but they are pricey for what they are. I realized I could get a HT receiver with a HTiB system, so I was looking at the Onkyo 600 series, with the intent of storing the surround and sub speakers (bad experience with an unfriendly system a few years back that has the family gun shy about "too many buttons to press"). Now I'm piecing together an "alternative" that I think fits our needs better but can still expand, but is economical enough that I won't be unhappy if we upgrade to a HD TV.

*Room:*
12 x 15, tile floor, one side wall taken up with hard surfaces (fireplace, sliding glass door).
Seating is at 9 and 11 feet from source
Bedroom above; no loud bass (not wife friendly)

*Existing Equipment:*
Toshiba 36 tube TV (std def)
Insignia VCR/DVD Recorder
Dish 721 DVR

*Usage:*
TV: 75%
Music (CD/MP3): 20%
DVD: 5%

*HTiB "Alternative":*
Onkyo TX-SR304 Receiver ($106 - shoponkyo)
Polk R150 Front ($58 - frys)
Home Theater Master MX-500 Remote ($68 - amazon)
Roku Soundbridge M1001 (mp3 streamer - still looking, around $140)

*Possible Additions:*
Velodyne VX10 subwoofer (doubtful - not wife friendly)
Polk CS1 Center Speaker
Another pair of Polk R150 as surrounds - or - ?


If we replace the TV, the Dish DVR will be upgraded to a HD DVR, the receiver and 2 Polk speakers will become my home office stereo, and I'll start over.


I'm hoping I get better sound out of the Polk speakers than I would the HTiB speakers; they sounded fine to me at Frys (although I had to buy them from their on-line store to get the pricing).


Any major flaws in this?


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/13480868
> 
> 
> Glad I found this thread; I was looking first at those executive bookshelf stereo systems, but they are pricey for what they are. I realized I could get a HT receiver with a HTiB system, so I was looking at the Onkyo 600 series, with the intent of storing the surround and sub speakers (bad experience with an unfriendly system a few years back that has the family gun shy about "too many buttons to press"). Now I'm piecing together an "alternative" that I think fits our needs better but can still expand, but is economical enough that I won't be unhappy if we upgrade to a HD TV.
> 
> *Room:*
> 12 x 15, tile floor, one side wall taken up with hard surfaces (fireplace, sliding glass door).
> Seating is at 9 and 11 feet from source
> Bedroom above; no loud bass (not wife friendly)
> 
> *Existing Equipment:*
> Toshiba 36 tube TV (std def)
> Insignia VCR/DVD Recorder
> Dish 721 DVR
> 
> *Usage:*
> TV: 75%
> Music (CD/MP3): 20%
> DVD: 5%
> 
> *HTiB "Alternative":*
> Onkyo TX-SR304 Receiver ($106 - shoponkyo)
> Polk R150 Front ($58 - frys)
> Home Theater Master MX-500 Remote ($68 - amazon)
> Roku Soundbridge M1001 (mp3 streamer - still looking, around $140)
> 
> *Possible Additions:*
> Velodyne VX10 subwoofer (doubtful - not wife friendly)
> Polk CS1 Center Speaker
> Another pair of Polk R150 as surrounds - or - ?
> 
> 
> If we replace the TV, the Dish DVR will be upgraded to a HD DVR, the receiver and 2 Polk speakers will become my home office stereo, and I'll start over.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping I get better sound out of the Polk speakers than I would the HTiB speakers; they sounded fine to me at Frys (although I had to buy them from their on-line store to get the pricing).
> 
> 
> Any major flaws in this?



I'd get the CSR for sure to get the best sound from around the TV. A sub is a must IMO just watch the TV and listen to the TV speakers when the boss is in bed. You could go 3.1 now and upgrade the fronts later and move the R150's to the rears for 5.1


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jswerve* /forum/post/13481035
> 
> 
> I'd get the CSR for sure to get the best sound from around the TV. A sub is a must IMO just watch the TV and listen to the TV speakers when the boss is in bed. You could go 3.1 now and upgrade the fronts later and move the R150's to the rears for 5.1



I know normally people say to get the sub as the first add-on to a stereo system, but the center does help with dialog in movies, right? The receiver does allow you to configure each speaker location separately, so I could add the center and then go for the sub at a later time.


If the MX-500 remote works like I think it will, I think it will remove most of the objection to a complete system (confusing configuration ... multiple remotes, etc.)


----------



## Jswerve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/13481382
> 
> 
> I know normally people say to get the sub as the first add-on to a stereo system, but the center does help with dialog in movies, right? The receiver does allow you to configure each speaker location separately, so I could add the center and then go for the sub at a later time.
> 
> 
> If the MX-500 remote works like I think it will, I think it will remove most of the objection to a complete system (confusing configuration ... multiple remotes, etc.)



Yeah grab the center first, great improvement. I bought the 5 surrounds first then added the Bic H-100 later.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/13480868
> 
> 
> Glad I found this thread; I was looking first at those executive bookshelf stereo systems, but they are pricey for what they are. I realized I could get a HT receiver with a HTiB system, so I was looking at the Onkyo 600 series, with the intent of storing the surround and sub speakers (bad experience with an unfriendly system a few years back that has the family gun shy about "too many buttons to press"). Now I'm piecing together an "alternative" that I think fits our needs better but can still expand, but is economical enough that I won't be unhappy if we upgrade to a HD TV.
> 
> *Room:*
> 12 x 15, tile floor, one side wall taken up with hard surfaces (fireplace, sliding glass door).
> Seating is at 9 and 11 feet from source
> Bedroom above; no loud bass (not wife friendly)
> 
> *Existing Equipment:*
> Toshiba 36 tube TV (std def)
> Insignia VCR/DVD Recorder
> Dish 721 DVR
> 
> *Usage:*
> TV: 75%
> Music (CD/MP3): 20%
> DVD: 5%
> 
> *HTiB "Alternative":*
> Onkyo TX-SR304 Receiver ($106 - shoponkyo)
> Polk R150 Front ($58 - frys)
> Home Theater Master MX-500 Remote ($68 - amazon)
> Roku Soundbridge M1001 (mp3 streamer - still looking, around $140)
> 
> *Possible Additions:*
> Velodyne VX10 subwoofer (doubtful - not wife friendly)
> Polk CS1 Center Speaker
> Another pair of Polk R150 as surrounds - or - ?
> 
> 
> If we replace the TV, the Dish DVR will be upgraded to a HD DVR, the receiver and 2 Polk speakers will become my home office stereo, and I'll start over.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping I get better sound out of the Polk speakers than I would the HTiB speakers; they sounded fine to me at Frys (although I had to buy them from their on-line store to get the pricing).
> 
> 
> Any major flaws in this?



I've got 4 R150s and a CSR along with an 8" sub left over from an HTIB. Lovin' it for now while I try to decide on a new sub (BIC H-100, Cadence 12" or eD A2-250).


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13483011
> 
> 
> I've got 4 R150s and a CSR along with an 8" sub left over from an HTIB. Lovin' it for now while I try to decide on a new sub (BIC H-100, Cadence 12" or eD A2-250).



I've heard good things about the Velodyne VX-10 also; its about $140 at some places right now (amazon, etc.) I guess its a loss leader for Velodyne, and I've read some rumors that it will be discontinued because they aren't making money with it.


----------



## Tulpa

The Velodyne is a great sub for its price, but it doesn't really measure up to either the Bic or the eD. Never heard the Cadence sub.


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jswerve* /forum/post/13482128
> 
> 
> Yeah grab the center first, great improvement. I bought the 5 surrounds first then added the Bic H-100 later.



I guess it depends on what you really like. My sub is my favorite part of my surround system. I would tell anyone to get the sub first over a center.







This is assuming they already have front L/R speakers of course.


----------



## pstroup

Any recommendations for cheap floor speakers? The Polks listed on the first page are all sold out. :-( Thanks!


Right now I'm looking at the Polk Monitor 50 2-Ways ($130/ea) and the JBL Venue Series Stadium 8-Inch 3-Way Speakers ($120/ea).


Or maybe the Athena LS-300 Towers ($100/ea).


Anyone have experience with any of these?


----------



## Tulpa

Athena LS series towers are pretty cheap through Audio Advisor.


----------



## bendski07

The more I read through the more I find and the more I don't know










My setup options:


Polk Monitor 50's front 129 Each

CS1 Center Channel 99.99

Sony Sub Sony SA-W2500 76.79


Total 433.79 for 3.1


I would at some point add the Polk Monitor 50's and make this a 5.1...


OR


Klipsch - Synergy Series Quintet II 5-Piece 249.88

Sony Sub Sony SA-W2500 76.79


326.67 for 5.1


I'm down to these two systems, looking to order this afternoon?


Thanks!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13483011
> 
> 
> I've got 4 R150s and a CSR along with an 8" sub left over from an HTIB. Lovin' it for now while I try to decide on a new sub (BIC H-100, Cadence 12" or eD A2-250).



The Bics excellent, but I think the CSX 12 is better (from memory...been along time since I heard the Bic) Pricier, the eD will extend a bit more and probably hit a bit harder, but won't look as nice.


----------



## book

Is there any receiver that does HDMI and that isnt more than $150?


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *book* /forum/post/13491237
> 
> 
> Is there any receiver that does HDMI and that isnt more than $150?



I don't think so ... I know shoponkyo.com has the refurbished TX-SR505 for $199, and it offers pass-through of HDMI (it doesn't convert other signals to that format, and it doesn't transport the audio ... you still have to use a separate audio cable).


----------



## phonk

Hi. I'm new to the forum and the whole home theater scene. I just bought a 32" lcd tv for my (very small) bedroom and am looking for a home theater setup to get the most out of the experience.

I've been looking around here quite a bit, and I'm confused as to what features I really need. I also have a very limited budget, as I am a poor college student so my current plan is to start with a 2.0 setup and go from there. I'm looking to spend under $300.

I'm pretty much set on the Polk R150's from fry's to start, but I'm confused about what receiver I really need. I'm looking to hook up an upconverting dvd plyer via HDMI along with an xbox 360. I'm also considering buying a ps3 since my brother works at GameStop and can get a used one discounted. I'm sure in the future I'll be buying a stand alone blu-ray player, but I don't know if I need to take that into consideration now, or if I should expect to upgrade the receiver in the future when money isn't as tight.

In summation, I guess I'm just looking for the least expensive receiver that will do the job. Any suggestions would be apprecated.


----------



## afrogt

So you want to connect a Xbox 360, upconverting DVD player and PS3 via HDMI and want a receiver that does all this plus speakers for under $300?


If you expect the receiver to process HDMI audio, its not gonna happen under $300, let alone finding one with at least 3 HDMI inputs.


----------



## Tulpa

Onkyo TX-SR705 is a three HDMI job. It alone retails for around $600 new. I imagine most others will be around the same price. I've never seen an HDMI pass through (non-audio) one with more than two.


Maybe one of the Sony models might be cheaper, but I imagine it's still going to sap most if not all of a $300 budget.


----------



## phonk

I wasn't asking for a suggestion of a sub-300 setup that will do all those things you're talking about. I was just asking if those things are really necessary, or if I could reasonably get by with a lesser receiver.


----------



## book

Get the Onkyo HTIB Sr-800 and jsut keep the receiver and sell the speakers and sub.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phonk* /forum/post/13499675
> 
> 
> I wasn't asking for a suggestion of a sub-300 setup that will do all those things you're talking about. I was just asking if those things are really necessary, or if I could reasonably get by with a lesser receiver.



What is necessary is in the eye(ear?) of the beholder.


You can always switch to component video on one or two sources, or route HDMI direct to the TV on one. There are workarounds.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phonk* /forum/post/13497517
> 
> 
> Hi. I'm new to the forum and the whole home theater scene. I just bought a 32" lcd tv for my (very small) bedroom and am looking for a home theater setup to get the most out of the experience.
> 
> I've been looking around here quite a bit, and I'm confused as to what features I really need. I also have a very limited budget, as I am a poor college student so my current plan is to start with a 2.0 setup and go from there. I'm looking to spend under $300.
> 
> I'm pretty much set on the Polk R150's from fry's to start, but I'm confused about what receiver I really need. I'm looking to hook up an upconverting dvd plyer via HDMI along with an xbox 360. I'm also considering buying a ps3 since my brother works at GameStop and can get a used one discounted. I'm sure in the future I'll be buying a stand alone blu-ray player, but I don't know if I need to take that into consideration now, or if I should expect to upgrade the receiver in the future when money isn't as tight.
> 
> In summation, I guess I'm just looking for the least expensive receiver that will do the job. Any suggestions would be apprecated.



As others have said, you won't get HDMI switching for three components and speakers for $300. You can get a refurbished Onkyo HT-SR800, shipped for about $359. You have two HDMI inputs "passing through" to one output. You could have the whole 7.1 system and hook up just what you need if you want. Then buy the Polks later, a better subwoofer, etc. if the sound needs improving to your ear.


I'm building a stereo system now, but I listen mostly to music and standard TV with it. I'll add a center speaker, subwoofer, and then surround speakers later for a 5.1 system. But if you went that route, you're missing out on what gamers tell me is very important ... the sub and surround speakers.


The other option is to look for used HTiB systems that people are selling off as they upgrade.


----------



## jaychamp

I have a question about the center and surrounds. Should they match spec-wise to what I already have? I remember reading something about the center needing to match but now I can't find it.


Anyway this is what I have now:


Onkyo TX-SR605

R50's for front

Dayton SUB-100


I'm now looking to add a center and surround. What I have my eye on are a Polk RM7 center and Polk RM101 for surround. The reason for the center is I need something under 4" in height, and I need wall mountable surrounds. Any suggestions are welcome and/or what I need to look for in order to match them correctly.


----------



## zymologist

I've found the following yamaha package being offered at what seems like a pretty good deal (compared to the individual RRPs)


1x RXV461B AV Receiver

1x NS7900B Main Speaker Pair

1x NSP7900B Surround Speaker Pack

1x YSTSW225B Subwoofer


Can anyone give me advice on the quality of the speakers listed?


----------



## jaychamp

Never mind my questions. I'm just going to get the CSR and find a way to mount it about my TV, and also get the M10 for wall mounting.


----------



## Brian M

I decided to do the building instead of htib.Can any of you tell me will these match up good.Ive just ordered these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-696 


Im hoping to pair it with a Sony STR-DG810


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13486712
> 
> 
> Athena LS series towers are pretty cheap through Audio Advisor.



You realize that this brand is no more, don't you?


I'm thinking Atlantic Technology 920's. * I'd love to upgrade to the 1200's but nobody sells them on Amazon. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... it's for a wedding gift registry. I talked to an Atlantic authorized dealer last year who spread some FUD about buying from someone who wasn't an authorized way-cool dealer, but then his usual customer base is organized crime (Microcult millionaires).


* I have an existing pair of Bose 501 Series IV's for front L-R. They have sentimental value so I'm just looking at surrounds, a center, and a sub at this point.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13522692
> 
> 
> You realize that this brand is no more, don't you?



Yes, I've known this for some time, and it's even been mentioned in this thread. Which is why I mentioned Audio Advisor. They still have Athena LS series stock left over for stupidly low prices. Until they finally sell out, I'll continue to recommend that brand.


----------



## anthony11

Hmmm. Maybe I should just spend the $350 (or $600 with fronts) and get them rather than throwing them into the wedding registry. Any thoughts on their quality vs. Atlantic Technology 920's? Or of the LS-500 fronts vs. the massive Bose 501 Series IV fronts that I have now?


----------



## pacent

So I originally started out with the intention of buying the Onkyo SP-HT908. I'm thinking that it comes with a solid receiver that does all of what I need, is pretty futureproof, has decent SQ. Then I went to my local audio store and auditioned these vs some budget Polk floorstanders. It did not take me long to realize that just about any floorstanders will beat out the Onkyo HTiB.


I started to look around at different setups, and kicked myself numerous times for missing out on the Polk R50/R300 deal at Outpost/Fry's. After grudgingly searching around for a setup similar to that for weeks, I thought to myself (according to my gf, using a very typical 'guy' mentality), why not just pay a little more and get a nicer system that blows away the Polks, yea, that will definately make me feel better. In comes Elemental Designs:


Yesterday, I ordered


A3 - 300 Sub with the updated driver

A6 - 6T6 - MTM Pair for Surrounds

A6 - 6T6 - MTM Single Center Channel

A6 - 6T6 - Tower Pair for the Fronts

A pair of 24" Speaker Stands


All of this driven by a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver (purchased via an accomodations discount). Throw in some monoprice banana plugs and 14 gauge speaker wires, and this leaves my wallet roughly 1850 dollars lighter. I'll write up a formal review when all this stuff comes in, but its been awhile since I've been this excited


----------



## GECooley

I'm upgrading my 6 year old Yamaha HTiB system and from reading this forum and other reviews and suggestions I think I have settled on this set up:


Klipsch Quintet II @ $250.00

Velodyne VX-10 - Subwoofer @ $138.00


BTW these are going to be connected to a Harman Kardon AVR 247 ($360.00 - new)


I've got about $800-900 and the room is only 12'x12'. So does anyone have any other suggestions? I know it not a very big budget, but my wife is already rolling her eyes.







I'm thinking about adding a pair of Polk Audio R150s ($80) would that make a big difference?


It's a small room with very little space for floor standing speakers which is why I went with the Klipsch IIs.


Thanks in advance for any other suggestions and/or advice!


Gabe


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GECooley* /forum/post/13528957
> 
> 
> I'm upgrading my 6 year old Yamaha HTiB...
> 
> Klipsch Quintet II @ $250.00
> 
> Velodyne VX-10 - Subwoofer @ $138.00
> 
> BTW these are going to be connected to a Harman Kardon AVR 247 ($360.00 - new)...



Fine choices for the money. You can pick up a refurbished HK for a bit less from harmanaudio on 'Bay with full warranty, if you don't mind a chance of some cosmetic imperfections... do whatever you want with the savings - a better sub or speakers or change in the pocket.


I would not add R150s to the Klipsch set, but using a pair to start a complete Polk Audio surround set is a different story.


----------



## GECooley

Cool. Thanks for the advice. If I were to add to the system what would you recommend for another $100 or so? Upgrading the front stereo speakers, the center channel or the sub? What, if anything, would pair well with the Klipsch Quintet IIs?


Or is it not really worth it unless I can throw more money at the system?


Thanks,


G


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GECooley* /forum/post/13529496
> 
> 
> What, if anything, would pair well with the Klipsch Quintet IIs?



Another pair of Quintets :-D

.

.

.

.

.

I would really think about a stronger sub (there are several recommendations in the Sub area) if you wanted to spend more money.


The Synergy Series is similar enough to Quintets in my mind, if you do decide on larger fronts, but I honestly think a better sub can make a larger difference in your system.


----------



## Althax

This is a great thread and It's really got me thinking. I ordered an Onkyo HiTB system Monday but the wife put the kill on it when she found out it was black. Aparantly having white surround speakers which blend more into the wall/ceiling is super important to her. So I cancelled the order and am now thinking about piecing my system together more but over time.


I think we'll be going 5.1 for a while, the idea of putting another 2 speakers in the ceiling is a bit more than my wife can take at this point but I hope to eventually get a 7.1 going.


Right now I have a huge great looking TV and an xbox 360, and we've just been listening through the tv speakers. Which are ok but I know it can get much better.


So I'm not sure what to do. I've done some research and know kind of what I need but my budget is so limited. I can do about 300 and might be able to push as far as 500 but thats it to get a receiver and speakers.


I've been eyeing the Onkyo 505 refurbished. The problem I have with it is, why do I bother getting a receiver with HDMI when it doesn't do the audio? My tv has 3 HDMI inputs so I don't even need it for video feed. Is there a cheaper receiver I could go with that would be great audio and save some cash for more speaker budget? Eventually I will get a blue ray player (when prices go down some) and so I am forced to either try and get a cheap (but quality) receiver now or get a more future oriented receiver which would blow most of my budget.


I'm leaning towards finding a cheaper alternative for the receiver and trying to pull out a 3.1 or 2.1 system with speakers I can live with. (I'm an average guy, not overly picky about sound. Anything is going to be an improvement over the tv speakers afterall) Then I could get surround speakers down the road for 5.1 or 7.1. Eventually I would get a better receiver with full HDMI capabilities.


So any suggestions on receivers and/or speaker and sub setups for that kind of budget?


So far I kind of see this


2x polk R300 (100) Fry's (r50's sold out)

1x Polk CSR (80)


How would that compare to say the

Athena LSC50 (50)

Athena LS 100 (100 for pair)


Would the Velodyne VX-10 be ok for a sub? Any other good ideas on a sub folks or a different receiver? How am I looking so far?


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Althax* /forum/post/13540186
> 
> 
> I've been eyeing the Onkyo 505 refurbished. The problem I have with it is, why do I bother getting a receiver with HDMI when it doesn't do the audio? My tv has 3 HDMI inputs so I don't even need it for video feed. Is there a cheaper receiver I could go with that would be great audio and save some cash for more speaker budget? Eventually I will get a blue ray player (when prices go down some) and so I am forced to either try and get a cheap (but quality) receiver now or get a more future oriented receiver which would blow most of my budget.
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards finding a cheaper alternative for the receiver and trying to pull out a 3.1 or 2.1 system with speakers I can live with. (I'm an average guy, not overly picky about sound. Anything is going to be an improvement over the tv speakers afterall) Then I could get surround speakers down the road for 5.1 or 7.1. Eventually I would get a better receiver with full HDMI capabilities.
> 
> 
> So any suggestions on receivers and/or speaker and sub setups for that kind of budget?
> 
> 
> So far I kind of see this
> 
> 
> 2x polk R300 (100) Fry's (r50's sold out)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR (80)
> 
> 
> How would that compare to say the
> 
> Athena LSC50 (50)
> 
> Athena LS 100 (100 for pair)
> 
> 
> Would the Velodyne VX-10 be ok for a sub? Any other good ideas on a sub folks or a different receiver? How am I looking so far?



I can't speak to how the Polks sound compared to the Athenas, but I was in much the same position as you. I was looking at HTiB because of the "all in one" package idea, but realized I really wanted stereo to play music on. We don't watch that many DVDs, and the HTiB I had a few years back was too complex for my wife and kids to deal with (there were a/b switches involved).


I bought the Polk R150 bookshelf speakers ($72 shipped), a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver ($109 or something like that, shipped), and a Roku Soundbridge ($153 shipped) to get radio over the Internet and play my MP3s. I'm very happy with the sound of the system compared to my TV speakers (a pretty decent Toshiba 36" tube TV). Later I'll add a sub and center speaker, but I seriously doubt if I would ever go to a 7.1 system.


I don't have a HD TV yet, so I went with a receiver without HDMI. I guess the only advantage you get on the low end receivers, where you're running a separate audio cable, is HDMI switching within the receiver. It sounds like you don't need that with your TV's inputs.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> This is a great thread and It's really got me thinking. I ordered an Onkyo HiTB system Monday but the wife put the kill on it when she found out it was black. Aparantly having white surround speakers which blend more into the wall/ceiling is super important to her. So I cancelled the order and am now thinking about piecing my system together more but over time.
> 
> 
> So far I kind of see this
> 
> 
> 2x polk R300 (100) Fry's (r50's sold out)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR (80)
> 
> 
> How would that compare to say the
> 
> Athena LSC50 (50)
> 
> Athena LS 100 (100 for pair)



How does any of this solve your white speaker problem?


----------



## Althax

Only the satellites need to be white. The ones that will be mounted up on the wall or ceiling. I was thinking of using the athena's as fronts but I think I'm throwing that idea out.


----------



## PKang

Hi. First time poster on this thread.


I am looking for a sound system for my TV in the living room. I think this is probably acoustically challenging: it's a huge space that is essentially continuous with the kitchen and breakfast space, total about 18x30. It has a vaulted ceiling and the second floor overlooks it. The TV and viewing area are set up on one side of this rectangle, with the sofa about 12-14 feet from the TV, which is on the 18 foot wall. I am not very acoustically discerning. This is mainly going to be used for movies, and a little music. It will be connected to a ps3 and dish HD.

My questions are,

1. How do I calculate the size of the area?

2. The surrounds should go behind the sofa, and not on the far wall, correct?

3. I see all this stuff about small speakers not being able to fill a big space. Does that apply here? Do I need floorstanders for the fronts? One of the systems I'm interested in are Polk RTi s.

4. What do people think about MMG-Ws? I think these only go down to 100 Hz, what kind of sub would I need for these?


Thank you for your help.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PKang* /forum/post/13556103
> 
> 
> Hi. First time poster on this thread.
> 
> 
> I am looking for a sound system for my TV in the living room. I think this is probably acoustically challenging: it's a huge space that is essentially continuous with the kitchen and breakfast space, total about 18x30. It has a vaulted ceiling and the second floor overlooks it...



Pkang, let me try to help with at least some of your concerns.


1. Don't worry about actual numbers; HUGE space, no matter what. The good thing is that the TV area seems to have at least 3 walls, but open on the back and top, right?

2. If you are attempting 5.1, then YES, the surrounds will go to the sides and slightly behind the sofa, but not on the far wall.

3. Smaller speakers will be struggling in this space, but Polk RTi's are not that small. If you don't mind sound spilling over to the other areas, invest in a good sub.

4. Sorry, not familiar enough with MMG Ws, but if these only go down to 100 Hz, you almost might need two subs tuned to different frequencies to fill the 120 or 100 -20 Hz range.


- Val


----------



## PKang

Thank you.


1. Don't worry about actual numbers; HUGE space, no matter what. The good thing is that the TV area seems to have at least 3 walls, but open on the back and top, right?


That's correct.


3. Smaller speakers will be struggling in this space, but Polk RTi's are not that small. If you don't mind sound spilling over to the other areas, invest in a good sub.


So I don't need floorstanders? Would RTi6 s be OK? There's a good deal on these speakers in the buy and sell section.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PKang* /forum/post/13559826
> 
> 
> So I don't need floorstanders? Would RTi6 s be OK? There's a good deal on these speakers in the buy and sell section.



I am happy with my RTi6 in a 18x20 room, and since you are looking to buy used - you are not risking to loose much value should you decide you "need" to upgrade. They are quite large bookshelves.


----------



## jusolson

Okay, I'm pondering upgrading my surround system and I'm looking for some key features and would like to know what you guys think of my plan and how it would work together. The basics: TV is 40" samsung 4061, Samsung 1400 BD, DISH sat, and currently a samsung X50 HTIB. I'm looking to upgrade the reciever with something that has HDMI input (s) so that I can take advantage of the 1400's audio decoding. Since I don't need a reciever to do the decoding I should get by a bit cheaper. My space is not all that large, think a fairly nice/updated mobile home, so lower ceiling, ect..,, Also I'm leaning towards in all in one in order to keep number/size of all componts to a minimum (also space inside tv stand)


My other feature that I would like to have is the 5 disc changer integraded with it. I know I have the BD player, but I like to watch alot of tv series, so it's nice to throw in 5 seasons and chew through them at my leisure. I should also note that I am not looking to connect the sat. to the surround, so one HDMI connection would all I would need/want.


Now after doing some checking I have come across the samsung X70, which has the one HDMI input, 5 disc changer, ect... GREAT!! butttt... the speakers are a bit big and since my space is smaller, i'm looking for something not too obvious. Now comes my BIG idea....scrap the X70 speakers/sub and buy an after market package... I just happened to stumble across KEF KHT1005 5.1 Sattelite Subwoofer Speaker Package http://http://www.accessories4less.c...Package/1.html These seem about the same size as my current surrounds, but i'm guessing that the quality may be a tad bit better







.. plus the powered sub can't hurt either.


So my question... would those kinds of speakers/sub be a substantial improvement to sound quality? would that X70 reciever be able to handle them sufficiently? Other ideas?? sytems, speaker packages? Thanks a bunch!


----------



## jusolson

Okay I'm going to scratch my *BIG* idea as I have fallen out of the idea of the X70, which after doing lots and lots of reading prior posts, ect.... it will not pass through 1080p, and it looks as if it might have other potential problems.


So NOW what I thought about doing is investing in sole AV reciever package such as the samsung HT-AS720ST which I have read great things about, or an onyko of similar performance/price. Now, I was thinking of keeping my current X50 reciever to use soley for the 5 disc changer and route its audio to the new reciever. My only other concern is stacking all these components together, I do not have room for them to sit side by side. the space is all open in back, and I would be able to use spacers between each component to help with air flow. Is there a problem with this kind of setup? anything else i should be concerned about? Thanks again for any input/ suggestions!


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jusolson* /forum/post/13569356
> 
> 
> So NOW what I thought about doing is investing in sole AV reciever package such as the samsung HT-AS720ST which I have read great things about, or an onyko of similar performance/price. Now, I was thinking of keeping my current X50 reciever to use soley for the 5 disc changer and route its audio to the new reciever. My only other concern is stacking all these components together, I do not have room for them to sit side by side. the space is all open in back, and I would be able to use spacers between each component to help with air flow. Is there a problem with this kind of setup? anything else i should be concerned about? Thanks again for any input/ suggestions!



Receivers generate some heat, and my Onkyo has venting out the top, so I use a rack with at least an inch between the top of the receiver and the next shelf. I don't think there's a fan, so it is relying on convection currents to carry the heat out. Allowing some space for the air to flow out is a good idea!


You'll have to check on the other components. I have a DVD/VCR combo and it remains cool on top (a fan vents it out the back), so it could be stacked with another component on top of it I suppose. But I would think both receivers should have some space to vent out the top. AV racks are available at the big box stores.


----------



## N8DS23

first time post, but avid reader and i have to take my hats off to all the time and info everyone has shared.

So, I am in process of over hauling my entertainment unit. I have all ready purchased a Samsung 4071 and a PS3. I have a $1000 left in my budget for the audio portion of my over haul.

So i am asking if anyone can help me achieve a great sounding system for the amount i have.

I am looking for a receiver that is future proof. So, Dolby True HD and such is a must. I am using my PS3 as my BD and want to take full advantage of it.

With the research that i have done i have piece together a system i think will sound good, but i do not know. ITs..

Yamaha RX-V663, Fluance AV-HTB 5 speaker system, Bic Acoustech H-100.


I know there is a couple other receivers that also fit what i am looking for the Onkyo Sr705 and the Sony DG920 (due out in May)

I am wondering if this would be a good set up or if there is better out there.

Oh and yes i prefer them all to be black.

Thanks again

Nathan


----------



## PKang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PKang* /forum/post/13556103
> 
> 
> Hi. First time poster on this thread.
> 
> 
> I am looking for a sound system for my TV in the living room. I think this is probably acoustically challenging: it's a huge space that is essentially continuous with the kitchen and breakfast space, total about 18x30. It has a vaulted ceiling and the second floor overlooks it. The TV and viewing area are set up on one side of this rectangle, with the sofa about 12-14 feet from the TV, which is on the 18 foot wall. I am not very acoustically discerning. This is mainly going to be used for movies, and a little music. It will be connected to a ps3 and dish HD.
> 
> My questions are,
> 
> 1. How do I calculate the size of the area?
> 
> 2. The surrounds should go behind the sofa, and not on the far wall, correct?
> 
> 3. I see all this stuff about small speakers not being able to fill a big space. Does that apply here? Do I need floorstanders for the fronts? One of the systems I'm interested in are Polk RTi s.
> 
> 4. What do people think about MMG-Ws? I think these only go down to 100 Hz, what kind of sub would I need for these?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your help.



OK.. update on my search for a speaker system.


Ordered the Onkyo 605 from Ebay.


After going all the way up to Axiom and EMP (~1500), did a reality check and currently considering systems in the 6-700 range for speakers like the following:


Polk Monitor 50 x 2

Polk Monitor 30 x 2

Polk Monitor CS1


This leaves some wriggle room, could either upgrade the 50 to 60, or the CS1 to CS2.


Klipsch SF-1 x 2

Klipsch SS-1 x 2

Klipsch SC-1


Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm not sure if it's best to go with a sub from the same manufacturer, or one from Hsu, for example (overkill?).


----------



## Damion83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PKang* /forum/post/13583837
> 
> 
> OK.. update on my search for a speaker system.
> 
> 
> Ordered the Onkyo 605 from Ebay.
> 
> 
> After going all the way up to Axiom and EMP (~1500), did a reality check and currently considering systems in the 6-700 range for speakers like the following:
> 
> 
> Polk Monitor 50 x 2
> 
> Polk Monitor 30 x 2
> 
> Polk Monitor CS1
> 
> 
> This leaves some wriggle room, could either upgrade the 50 to 60, or the CS1 to CS2.
> 
> 
> Klipsch SF-1 x 2
> 
> Klipsch SS-1 x 2
> 
> Klipsch SC-1
> 
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm not sure if it's best to go with a sub from the same manufacturer, or one from Hsu, for example (overkill?).



No, you don't want to buy the sub from the speaker company.


You definitely want to spend at the minimum $250 for the 12" Bic H-100 off eBay. Though the HSU, SVS and ED subs are at a whole different level of performance than the Bic.

ED:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_41 

SVS:
http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm 

HSU:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Damion83* /forum/post/13592060
> 
> 
> You definitely want to spend at the minimum $250 for the 12" Bic H-100 off eBay. Though the HSU, SVS and ED subs are at a whole different level of performance than the Bic.
> 
> ED:
> http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_41
> 
> SVS:
> http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm
> 
> HSU:
> http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html



What is it with most of these subs having their own amp built in? That's one more power cord to route and trip over, and for adults isn't it redundant given a 7.1 (or *.1) HTR?


----------



## ahlb0012

Hi All,


This is my first post, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. Thank you for all of the wonderful insight!


I'm a newbie in the process of creating my first 5.1 home theater system. I want to make sure I order cabling to get the best quality output. Here is what I have on order:


Onkyo 605 Receiver

2 M50 Fronts

2 Polk M30 Surrounds

Polk CS1 Center

Bic H-100 Sub

Wall Mounted Samsung LN46A550P 46-inch 1080p LCD HDTV


I'll be connecting a DirectTV HD receiver (HDMI), Nintendo Wii (Component) and soon a PS3 (HDMI). The space is approx 13x13x8 with a 6' opening in the rear of the room opening up to the kitchen and informal dining room.


I plan to run one HDMI and one Component to the TV (perhaps a 15' run). Short HDMI runs from the dish receiver and PS3 to the receiver and a short component run from the Wii to the receiver.


Based on that setup could you please make cable suggestions (gauge, source, length, etc.)? I've seen a lot of positive feedback regarding monoprice.com?


Finally, any suggestions or tips on speaker layout for a corner TV setup?


Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahlb0012* /forum/post/13593006
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> This is my first post, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. Thank you for all of the wonderful insight!
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie in the process of creating my first 5.1 home theater system. I want to make sure I order cabling to get the best quality output. Here is what I have on order:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605 Receiver
> 
> 2 M50 Fronts
> 
> 2 Polk M30 Surrounds
> 
> Polk CS1 Center
> 
> Bic H-100 Sub
> 
> Wall Mounted Samsung LN46A550P 46-inch 1080p LCD HDTV
> 
> 
> I'll be connecting a DirectTV HD receiver (HDMI), Nintendo Wii (Component) and soon a PS3 (HDMI). The space is approx 13x13x8 with a 6' opening in the rear of the room opening up to the kitchen and informal dining room.
> 
> 
> I plan to run one HDMI and one Component to the TV (perhaps a 15' run). Short HDMI runs from the dish receiver and PS3 to the receiver and a short component run from the Wii to the receiver.
> 
> 
> Based on that setup could you please make cable suggestions (gauge, source, length, etc.)? I've seen a lot of positive feedback regarding monoprice.com?
> 
> 
> Finally, any suggestions or tips on speaker layout for a corner TV setup?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!



Sounds to me like you have a good selection of components. I've been very happy with the service and quality of cables from monoprice (you can click through from the ad at the top of the forums). I don't think you have to worry too much about the guage, etc. of the component or HDMI cables, but there's a lot of discussion here about speaker wire guage. I had short runs so used 18 guage and it works fine (Home Depot has speaker wire as fine as 22 guage, and that would probably have also worked for me). Some people recommend 16 guage, but you'll have to estimate the run length for each set of speakers for people to give you an idea of what's best. ("guage" is a funny measurement ... the lower the number the larger the wire, so 14 guage is much larger than 18 guage).


----------



## djrobsd

I shopped until I dropped for HTIB systems, and they all have a great price point, and some of them sound half decent, but they all came with MAJOR compromises. One of the things I was not willing to compromise on was HDMI, I needed both audio and video switching of HDMI. The only HTIB's I could find were from Sony. I bought the Sony Soundbar system for $299, and after 4 days of using it, I decided it's just not for me, so back to Sony it goes.


TO replace it, I've ordered:


-Onkyo 605 receiver for $337 shipped with tax from Shoponkyo (must register as a club member first to get all the discounts). I wanted to go lower on price for my receiver, but the 505 onkyo only passes the signal through HDMI. This is going to totally be worth it to me to spend the extra $ now to have a solid foundation for my home theatre in the future.


-Polk Monitor 50 floorstanding speakers - Amazon seems to have the best deal now that Fry's is sold out, I got them for $129 each on Amazon. I've listened to many speakers over the years, and for the price, these can NOT be beat. My old room mate has them and they just sound awesome, especially when listening to music.


So.... now I just need to get a sub, I'll probably go with the Velodyne 10 incher for around $150.... And later on I'll get the rears and a good center channel, but I'm maxed out on spending for now, especially since I also just bought a PS3 system so I can play BD's.







Fortunately, for center, I do have an old Infinity center channel speaker that's about 15 years old that still works great and has been collecting a lot of dust, so that should get me by for now.


----------



## Justmtnb44




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13592725
> 
> 
> What is it with most of these subs having their own amp built in? That's one more power cord to route and trip over, and for adults isn't it redundant given a 7.1 (or *.1) HTR?



I don't quite understand your "for adults" comment...or how you could trip over a power cord since it's usually best to have a sub near a wall.


Subs have their own amp built in because any decent HTR does not have built in amplification for a subwoofer. They process the .1 signal, but only send it out as a low-level preamp signal. So it still needs to be amplified, and it's easiest and cleanest just to put that amp directly on the sub.


----------



## dallasmike1974




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PKang* /forum/post/13556103
> 
> 
> Hi. First time poster on this thread.
> 
> 
> I am looking for a sound system for my TV in the living room. I think this is probably acoustically challenging: it's a huge space that is essentially continuous with the kitchen and breakfast space, total about 18x30. It has a vaulted ceiling and the second floor overlooks it. The TV and viewing area are set up on one side of this rectangle, with the sofa about 12-14 feet from the TV, which is on the 18 foot wall. I am not very acoustically discerning. This is mainly going to be used for movies, and a little music. It will be connected to a ps3 and dish HD.
> 
> My questions are,
> 
> 1. How do I calculate the size of the area?
> 
> 2. The surrounds should go behind the sofa, and not on the far wall, correct?
> 
> 3. I see all this stuff about small speakers not being able to fill a big space. Does that apply here? Do I need floorstanders for the fronts? One of the systems I'm interested in are Polk RTi s.
> 
> 4. What do people think about MMG-Ws? I think these only go down to 100 Hz, what kind of sub would I need for these?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your help.



PKang -


My living room set-up is exactly like yours - not ideal for ht. I too have a ps3 and a hdtv (with directv though) and will use it mostly for movies.


I am brand new to the audio world though, so please keep me posted on what you're looking at and how it turns out.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13592725
> 
> 
> What is it with most of these subs having their own amp built in? That's one more power cord to route and trip over, and for adults isn't it redundant given a 7.1 (or *.1) HTR?



Subs come with dedicated amps that are mated specifically in most cases to the enclosure and driver and deliver better performance than using your avr to power the sub.


Low frequencies take more amp power than higher frequencies so by the sub having it's own dedicated amp mated specifically to it's enclosure and driver it takes the stress off the avrs amps and frees it do deliver cleaner power to the speakers making them sound better, better performance all the way around.


----------



## xpscodes

Hello Everyone, Greetings.


I have been looking around for a HTiB in last couple of days. First I thought of getting Bose Life Style and started researching it. Lucky me, stumbled on a yahoo answers page and found my way through to this forum. Glad i made it here.


After researching for few days, I came down to this setup:

Orb Audio Mod2 Home theater speaker System

Yamaha 663 or Onkyo 605


Could someone comment on this setup. I need the speakers to be small, I'll be carrying to a India in a regular check-in luggage. Looking forward to your valuable suggestions.


By the way I'm very new to all these, its like a new world to me.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xpscodes* /forum/post/13608178
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone, Greetings.
> 
> 
> I have been looking around for a HTiB in last couple of days. First I thought of getting Bose Life Style and started researching it. Lucky me, stumbled on a yahoo answers page and found my way through to this forum. Glad i made it here.
> 
> 
> After researching for few days, I came down to this setup:
> 
> Orb Audio Mod2 Home theater speaker System
> 
> Yamaha 663 or Onkyo 605
> 
> 
> Could someone comment on this setup. I need the speakers to be small, I'll be carrying to a India in a regular check-in luggage. Looking forward to your valuable suggestions.
> 
> 
> By the way I'm very new to all these, its like a new world to me.



Great choice no matter which one of those receivers you go with. Orbs are amazing small form factor speakers with much better build quality and performance than your initial look with many more configurable options. Look better to imo if that matters.


As far as receivers, between those it's preference, both are good receivers at the price point. The 663 has just been released so it's getting more talk right now, both are great buys though. You can find threads on both models in the receiver forum if you want some more reading that might help you decide. Ultimately you won't go wrong with either.


----------



## djrobsd

Here's a newbie question.... Is it best to match your center and rears with the same "Series" of brand of speaker as your fronts? I'm getting the Monitor 50's from Polk, and I hear a lot about people buying the CS1 Front, and the M30 Rears.... Is that the best way to do it? Also a little bit OT, but why does Amazon take a week to ship out a Polk speaker that is supposedly "in stock" when you choose the free super saver shipping? They say the speakers won't ship until Apr 14th, and then it will take another 3-5 days to get here! Are they trying to discourage people from using the free shipping?! I'm going to go nuts staring at my black Onkyo 605 while waiting for the speakers to arrive! LOL


----------



## Tulpa

Center should match the front as close as you can (brand and series.) Rears don't really have to match the fronts/center, but they should match each other.


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justmtnb44* /forum/post/13599069
> 
> 
> I don't quite understand your "for adults"



.. as opposed to kids who equate shaking the fillings out of the neighbor's teeth with quality.



> Quote:
> or how you could trip over a power cord since it's usually best to have a sub near a wall.



That doesn't mean that a power outlet is right there.


[/quote]Subs have their own amp built in because any decent HTR does not have built in amplification for a subwoofer. [/quote]


Hmm, guess the terminology on them is a bit deceptive.


[/quote]They process the .1 signal, but only send it out as a low-level preamp signal. So it still needs to be amplified, and it's easiest and cleanest just to put that amp directly on the sub.[/quote]


Bizarre. So a self-described 7.1 or 7.2 HTR is in fact a 7.0 unit? Color me annoyed at paying for rear surround amp channels that I can't use and then having to pay again for an embedded amp in a sub. Would be nice for the HTR to be able to assign one of the rear channels as a sub channel.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13616997
> 
> 
> ..
> 
> Bizarre. So a self-described 7.1 or 7.2 HTR is in fact a 7.0 unit?



Well, 7.0 for amplified channels. The .1 is still a channel, just unamplified.



> Quote:
> Color me annoyed at paying for rear surround amp channels that I can't use and then having to pay again for an embedded amp in a sub.



The sub's amp 1) takes a bit of load off the receiver so the receiver can devote more power to the non-LFE channels and 2) most sub amps will do it way better than most if not all onboard receiver amps could hope do do. You think a small receiver will power a monster subwoofer like an ED A7-900? I don't think so. I'd rather have the sub do the heavy lifting and still use whatever receiver I want to use with it.


About the only reason you'd want an amplified subwoofer out on a new receiver is if you already own a passive sub, and those are generally only found in cheaper HTIBs (I'd imagine if you're looking for a replacement receiver for that HTIB.) Most passive subwoofers don't get the job done for most.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13616997
> 
> 
> Would be nice for the HTR to be able to assign one of the rear channels as a sub channel.



I think you might be alone in that respect. I understand not wanting to pay for things you don't use, but A/V equipment is setup for what the majority demand, and 99% want a powered sub.


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13617088
> 
> 
> The sub's amp 1) takes a bit of load off the receiver so the receiver can devote more power to the non-LFE channels



Is the sub channel substantially more demanding than the others wrt power?


[/quote]and 2) most sub amps will do it way better than most if not all onboard receiver amps could hope do do.[/quote]


So we should all ignore onboard amps and have a separate external amp for every channel?


[/quote] You think a small receiver will power a monster subwoofer like an ED A7-900? [/quote]


See above under "adult". A 2x18" $2200 subwoofer appeals to kids and to those with penis-size issues.



> Quote:
> About the only reason you'd want an amplified subwoofer out on a new receiver is if you already own a passive sub, and those are generally only found in cheaper HTIBs (I'd imagine if you're looking for a replacement receiver for that HTIB.) Most passive subwoofers don't get the job done for most.



I have a late-80's Sony 2.0 receiver and a pair of inherited Bose 501 Series IV's. I'm looking to replace the lot so that I can get surround effects when watching DVDs, and trying to sift through the testosterone and unwritten assumptions to figure out what makes sense.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13617569
> 
> 
> Is the sub channel substantially more demanding than the others wrt power?



It hits different frequencies and requires more power to move an often much larger driver. So, basically, yes.



> Quote:
> So we should all ignore onboard amps and have a separate external amp for every channel?



No, because they don't require the extra umph. A sub tends to.


Although you can get a separate amplifier (coupled with a receiver with channel outs or a preprocessor which is basically a receiver without an onboard amp) to give a bit more juice to all channels if you desire it. Costs more money, but it's worth it to some.


> Quote:
> See above under "adult". A 2x18" $2200 subwoofer appeals to kids and to those with penis-size issues.



That's just an extreme example to prove the point. Even a Bic H-100, $250 shipped, benefits more from an onboard amp.


And I wouldn't say it appeals to just kids and mid-life crisis people. It can be used in large rooms that smaller subs would struggle mightily to fill. And would have better headroom than multiple smaller subs.


The point still is that a receiver is inadequate to provide power to larger and often better sounding subs.



> Quote:
> I have a late-80's Sony 2.0 receiver and a pair of inherited Bose 501 Series IV's. I'm looking to replace the lot so that I can get surround effects when watching DVDs, and trying to sift through the testosterone and unwritten assumptions to figure out what makes sense.



It has nothing really to do with testosterone. Even at modest levels, powered subs show more benefit than unpowered ones. Heck, more powerful subs can often be run at a LOWER setting because they don't have to work as hard to provide those low frequency effects.


----------



## buzzy_

anthony11, in this thread there's less BS about audio and HT than almost any other place on the web. Put your preconceptions aside; Tulpa's comment are on the mark and a lot more civil than most would have managed.


One of the key points, in case it's not clear, is that shifting the low end to a sub takes a lot of strain off your main receiver and speakers. A significant real benefit. Not to mention the impact you get for HT, if HT is what you're planning to use it for.


Don't waste money on a passive sub, just hold off on buying the sub and add it later on. You can build in increments. You'll learn as you go; there are a lot of things one has to experience before they sink in.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/13618406
> 
> 
> Put your preconceptions aside; Tulpa's comment are on the mark and a lot more civil than most would have managed.



+1


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djrobsd* /forum/post/13614672
> 
> 
> Here's a newbie question.... Is it best to match your center and rears with the same "Series" of brand of speaker as your fronts? I'm getting the Monitor 50's from Polk, and I hear a lot about people buying the CS1 Front, and the M30 Rears.... Is that the best way to do it? Also a little bit OT, but why does Amazon take a week to ship out a Polk speaker that is supposedly "in stock" when you choose the free super saver shipping? They say the speakers won't ship until Apr 14th, and then it will take another 3-5 days to get here! Are they trying to discourage people from using the free shipping?! I'm going to go nuts staring at my black Onkyo 605 while waiting for the speakers to arrive! LOL



I've always read that you want the fronts and center to match. I'm "incrementally" building a HT system on the sly, with just two Polk R150 bookshelf speakers as fronts right now for a 2.0 system. I plan to move the R150s to the surround position and add new fronts and a center at that time. I'm a little hesitant to add a center now, as I don't know what I'll be using as front speakers later on. So my next purchase may be one of the low end powered subs like the Velodyne VX10 or BIC-100.


As far as Amazon's shipping policy, yeah, I think they entice you to choose another shipping method to get the stuff faster! Its diabolical, because you have already made the purchase decision (often choosing them based on the difference in shipping costs). Clever people, those Bezos.


----------



## wheelzntoys

Currently this is my set-up and getting the upgrade bug.


Yamaha 661

Athena Point 5's

SVS Sub PB10


Maybe $1,000.00 budget for the 5 speakers (fronts, channel and surround) and keep them in bookshelf size. 70% game / 25% blu-ray PS3 and rest is music.


Currently some Energy's get my attention, seems like many are happy with them.


I live in a condo.


Thanks,


----------



## sourbeef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/13624371
> 
> 
> I've always read that you want the fronts and center to match. I'm "incrementally" building a HT system on the sly, with just two Polk R150 bookshelf speakers as fronts right now for a 2.0 system. I plan to move the R150s to the surround position and add new fronts and a center at that time. I'm a little hesitant to add a center now, as I don't know what I'll be using as front speakers later on. So my next purchase may be one of the low end powered subs like the Velodyne VX10 or BIC-100.
> 
> 
> As far as Amazon's shipping policy, yeah, I think they entice you to choose another shipping method to get the stuff faster! Its diabolical, because you have already made the purchase decision (often choosing them based on the difference in shipping costs). Clever people, those Bezos.



Willpower! I got my fronts/center/surrounds at different times from amazon. I always chose free shipping. My fronts and center were ordered on a Tuesday, they arrived on Thursday even though the estimated time was something like a week or more later. So just because it looks like it will take a longer time does not always mean it will.


----------



## djrobsd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sourbeef* /forum/post/13627318
> 
> 
> Willpower! I got my fronts/center/surrounds at different times from amazon. I always chose free shipping. My fronts and center were ordered on a Tuesday, they arrived on Thursday even though the estimated time was something like a week or more later. So just because it looks like it will take a longer time does not always mean it will.



Hahaha you're right, they weren't supposed to ship until the 14th, but they are now shipped from Nevada and sheduled to arrive on Tuesday!


----------



## xpscodes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13609922
> 
> 
> Great choice no matter which one of those receivers you go with. Orbs are amazing small form factor speakers with much better build quality and performance than your initial look with many more configurable options. Look better to imo if that matters.
> 
> 
> As far as receivers, between those it's preference, both are good receivers at the price point. The 663 has just been released so it's getting more talk right now, both are great buys though. You can find threads on both models in the receiver forum if you want some more reading that might help you decide. Ultimately you won't go wrong with either.



Thanks Jakeman02. I think i'll go for Yamaha 663 then.


I'm not sure what all cables I would need for this setup, don't have any right now. Is there any place i can find the information or talk to the orb guys and find out whats necessary?


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzy_* /forum/post/13618406
> 
> 
> anthony11, in this thread there's less BS about audio and HT than almost any other place on the web. Put your preconceptions aside; Tulpa's comment are on the mark and a lot more civil than most would have managed.



Understood.


> Quote:
> One of the key points, in case it's not clear, is that shifting the low end to a sub takes a lot of strain off your main receiver and speakers. A significant real benefit. Not to mention the impact you get for HT, if HT is what you're planning to use it for.



I accept that. I've experienced a lot of attempts to upsell me to units huge beyond all possible need, though, and am a bit jaded :-/ I see some people saying that more-powerful gear will sound better at a lower volume than more modest gear -- but others saying that given units need to be played loud before they can shine. When researching any purchases there are always varying opinions but in this arena, palpable facts seem to be especially elusive.


> Quote:
> Don't waste money on a passive sub



Good to know - that seems to be widely assumed but rarely voiced.



> just hold off on buying the sub and add it later on./quote]
> 
> I may well need to do that. I'm looking at Axiom for the rest
> 
> (2xm60, VP100 or VP150, 2x QS4 or QS8) and they're advising me to go with their 350 watt (sheesh) unit for the sub given my room (I'm guessing 12x15x12 w/d/h, big window on one side, big opening on the other, dense hardwood floor), which even at the outlet price is $682. I see lots of love here for Hsu and SVS and BIC subs but I don't think a black plastic box would go over well with $wife. I'm tempted to go with the 175 watt unit anyway and save $200.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> You can build in increments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In theory yes, but given the spousal factor, that isn't as clear for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> You'll learn as you go; there are a lot of things one has to experience before they sink in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I won't have the time or money to do this over so I need to be confident up-front.
Click to expand...


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13636098
> 
> 
> I've experienced a lot of attempts to upsell me to units huge beyond all possible need, though, and am a bit jaded :-/



Well, I understand being resistant to someone selling you a Ferrari when all you need is a Honda Accord, but you'll find most here are actually trying to get you to look at those Honda Accords instead of a moped, which is what a passive sub would be.







Now if all you need is a moped, that's fine. But hopefully you can use the Accord.



> Quote:
> I see some people saying that more-powerful gear will sound better at a lower volume than more modest gear -- but others saying that given units need to be played loud before they can shine.



All things being equal, more powerful gear (like subs) do tend to sound better. But you also have to consider the design, your room, room treatments, and a host of other things.


Fortunately this forum is knowledgeable about that, especially the individual forums. Especially if you state your needs up front. (If you say you want a $200 sub, no one's going to suggest an Epik Castle. And if they do, ignore them.)




> Quote:
> I see lots of love here for Hsu and SVS and BIC subs but I don't think a black plastic box would go over well with $wife. I'm tempted to go with the 175 watt unit anyway and save $200.



Well, they're not plastic, they're wood (or woodlike fiberboard, at least), and you can get some of the HSU and SVS subs in different finishes. Same thing with some of the other makers, like AV123 (the x-sub is very nice and affordable.) I'm sure there's a sub out there for you.


----------



## khalpin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djrobsd* /forum/post/13598182
> 
> 
> -Polk Monitor 50 floorstanding speakers - Amazon seems to have the best deal now that Fry's is sold out, I got them for $129 each on Amazon. I've listened to many speakers over the years, and for the price, these can NOT be beat. My old room mate has them and they just sound awesome, especially when listening to music.



Sounds like you might be confusing the Monitor 50's for the R50's(which Frys is sold out of). Frys still has Monitor 50s in stock and they're only $99 each. Doesn't look like Amazon carries the R50s.


----------



## tgwikik

I am by no means an audio or videophile. In fact, I'm very new to all of this. I bought a pair of headphones a year ago that (says some forums) are audiophile quality and I love them (Shure E4c). So I would like some good sound quality, but it doesn't have to be killer. I've been reading this thread and finding it extremely helpful, but, at the end of the day, I still don't know what I'm doing.


I certainly don't want top of the line. I have a 46" Samsung 1080i tv. I got the 1080i specifically because I'm not a videophile and can't tell the difference. I don't plan on upgrading the tv, so I don't need to futureproof my A/V receiver. I use an xbox 360 for my dvd player (also a reason for the 1080i and not the p). I'd like to get wireless surround speakers.


My budget is somewhere in the $1000-$1500 range, but, like I said, I'm not looking for anything even close to top of the line. If I could spend $500, I'd do it.


What sorts of features should I be looking for in a receiver? Speakers? I really don't want to have to get an HTIB....


----------



## tgwikik

And sorry if this is the wrong thread to post in


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tgwikik* /forum/post/13638076
> 
> 
> I am by no means an audio or videophile. In fact, I'm very new to all of this. I bought a pair of headphones a year ago that (says some forums) are audiophile quality and I love them (Shure E4c). So I would like some good sound quality, but it doesn't have to be killer. I've been reading this thread and finding it extremely helpful, but, at the end of the day, I still don't know what I'm doing.
> 
> 
> I certainly don't want top of the line. I have a 46" Samsung 1080i tv. I got the 1080i specifically because I'm not a videophile and can't tell the difference. I don't plan on upgrading the tv, so I don't need to futureproof my A/V receiver. I use an xbox 360 for my dvd player (also a reason for the 1080i and not the p). I'd like to get wireless surround speakers.
> 
> 
> My budget is somewhere in the $1000-$1500 range, but, like I said, I'm not looking for anything even close to top of the line. If I could spend $500, I'd do it.
> 
> 
> What sorts of features should I be looking for in a receiver? Speakers? I really don't want to have to get an HTIB....



In the interest of keeping it simple and giving you an incredible value, just go with the SBS 5.1 package and forget about it.

www.svsound.com 


Any $350-$500 receiver will handle them just fine and you will thrust into the bottom of mid-fi quality at entry level prices.


----------



## lunaticpuma

Has anyone here done a comparison between Polk's CS1 and CS2? I'm torn since the CS1 is a lot cheaper than the CS2, but I also know that the center channel is really important (so probably worth some splurging). I would be looking to match these to Monitor 50s and an Onkyo 705. Thanks!


----------



## jshigashi

Sounds like a lot of people are interested in Polk's here.


About a year ago I purchased The Polk RM6750 satellite speaker package (+ two extra speakers for 7.1) to go along with the Onkyo 605... and after buying another sub (Velodyne VX-10), I have been fairly content with everything.


Well, a year later I am moving and really don't have the room for 7.1 in my HT room in my new house.



Anyhow, I thought about possibly moving the speakers from the RM6750 (and the sub that came with that package) to my bedroom, and am thinking about getting some floor standers and bookshelfs for a 5.1 system in my new home theater room.



I'm looking at the Polk M50's for the fronts, M30's for surrounds, and CS1 for the Center Channel.



Anyone have any opinion or insight for me as to how much of an improvement this will be? I would imagine it would be a much fuller sound going from satellites to larger speakers, but I am not an audiophile by any means and already enjoy what I have. This room is much bigger (high ceilings) though, so I am thinking that now may be the time for an upgrade.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jshigashi* /forum/post/13666791
> 
> 
> Sounds like a lot of people are interested in Polk's here.



It's that they're closing out a couple of their product lines for really great prices. Same with the Athena brand (that whole brand is going away and are getting harder to find.) Neither brand is uber-spectacular like B&W or Wharfedale, but they held their own against similarly priced brands, and with closeout prices they make it possible to have a HTIB-killer type setup for not much more money.


----------



## jokeaccount

My moving my setup to a new room and I have some previous 16 gauge wire that I'm going to be using. The front speakers are all going to be 35ft. I want to save some money and just buy some 16 gauge wire again only for 2 more speakers. Is this gauge fine for 35ft. or should I go with 14 gauge? Thanks.


----------



## Jakeman02

Since you're going to have to buy more anyway I'd go with 14 (providing your receiver will accept 14) and use the 16 for the shorter runs, the price difference isn't that much. But yeah to answer your question 16ga is fine, it's generally suggested to be ok < 50ft.


----------



## Althax

Just to let folks know, Fry's website indicates they have more of the Polk 50's. I ordered 2 and a Polk CSR this weekend. Now I just need to find a good deal on a receiver and my htib alternative will be off the ground.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Althax* /forum/post/13692954
> 
> 
> Just to let folks know, Fry's website indicates they have more of the Polk 50's. I ordered 2 and a Polk CSR this weekend. Now I just need to find a good deal on a receiver and my htib alternative will be off the ground.



I did get the Polk R50's earlier, and now I'm eying the CSR at $80; I'm going to check to see if the store has it as well at that price.


I'm very happy with the R50's for my needs, but I'm not driving them very hard. But for the music I listen to, at the volume I'm using, they work fine.


----------



## fshagan

I checked at Fry's, and the on-line specials on the Polks are limited to on-line sales. They were very surprised at the CSR at $80 (the store price is $180).


Some locations have store pickup of on-line sales, but not in my area. So I ordered the CSR at $80 plus another $22 in tax and shipping. Still a pretty good price. I'm also looking at local sales of subwoofers, although I doubt a subwoofer would add much to music listening. Most music doesn't need it, but for HT the lower sounds are used to heighten the experience.


----------



## samsurd2

Found the same to be true when I bought my R150s. The in-store price was almost 3x the on-line price. Yikes.


----------



## jokeaccount

Can anyone please tell me if the jacket on the 14 gauge wire is thicker or thinner than the one on the 16 gauge wire from monoprice? Cause I want to know the thickness because I'm gonna run them though the wiremold. Thanks!


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/13545612
> 
> 
> I don't have a HD TV yet, so I went with a receiver without HDMI. I guess the only advantage you get on the low end receivers, where you're running a separate audio cable, is HDMI switching within the receiver.



It seems that with HDMI 1.3+ systems, if everything is compliant, the receiver can automatically sync the audio/video, which would sure be nice. Of course my 61" Samsung is only 1.2 :-/


----------



## michael740

As most new to the site say, great site! I'm completely new to the AV world and have learned a lot though still know little.


I've got a living room, 'average size', I'm buying a Panasonic plasma, TH-50PZ85U. I've heard/read good things about the Onkyo HT-S990THX (home theater system) and was going to pull the trigger until I discovered that it was released nearly two years ago. Which can be a long time when it comes to technology. Seems I can get it easily for about $750. (are they coming out with its successor any time soon?)


Here's my question. I'm able to spend up to $1000 (including wiring) on the audio end of my starter home theater. Can I do better going the individual component route for under a grand or should I just get the Onkyo?


If you have specific component suggestions for a 5.1 (or 7.1) system I'd be very appreciative. Thanks very much!


----------



## JayBlay77

Alright so this may have been asked before but I'm confused on what the difference between the Polk R50 and the Monitor 50. Is one better than the other? The R50 sells for cheaper on sites like Fry's but then on the Polk website the MSRP price for the r50 is higher than the monitor 50. Help please. Thanks.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michael740* /forum/post/13737554
> 
> 
> As most new to the site say, great site! I'm completely new to the AV world and have learned a lot though still know little.
> 
> 
> I've got a living room, 'average size', I'm buying a Panasonic plasma, TH-50PZ85U. I've heard/read good things about the Onkyo HT-S990THX (home theater system) and was going to pull the trigger until I discovered that it was released nearly two years ago. Which can be a long time when it comes to technology. Seems I can get it easily for about $750. (are they coming out with its successor any time soon?)
> 
> 
> Here's my question. I'm able to spend up to $1000 (including wiring) on the audio end of my starter home theater. Can I do better going the individual component route for under a grand or should I just get the Onkyo?
> 
> 
> If you have specific component suggestions for a 5.1 (or 7.1) system I'd be very appreciative. Thanks very much!



I originally went shopping for a HTiB system, and ended up building my own which I think, sounds better than every sub-$1000 HTiB system I tested. And I did NOT have to spend too much...


With careful shopping, I put together:


Onkyo 505 ($250)

Fronts: Polk R50s ($150 for 2)

Center: Polk CSR ($100)

Rears: Polk R150s ($50 for 2)


Already had an OK subwoofer (8" Polk), but if you don't, budget $250 for that (the BIC H-100 at $250 is a good choice).


So the total is about $800 for a 5.1 system. Not high-end, but better than the HTiB systems, and more fun putting it together. For 7.1, add another pair of R150s for $50. It's fantastic for home theater, and good (not great) for music. If you're looking to put something together for music also, then you'll want to go with something a little better for your mains (front left and right)... the R50s are pretty good for music (esp. with a little sub added), but if you're picky about music, then upgrade those. For low-to-mid level volumes, the R50s with a small sub are great for music.


This is just one example... you can build a system using different receivers/speakers for around $1000 that easily out-perform HTiB systems, using a variety of components. But try to get speakers that "match", so they all sound right together.


Good luck!


----------



## Demonic11

Hello everyone,


I posted some questions in the main forum, but then I noticed this thread. I must say, what an incredible source of information. Thanks to G-Star and everyone who has contributed their insight and wealth of knowlede. Based on what I've read here, I've started to build a system, and I wanted to get everyone's inputs as to what I'm working on.


I'm really excited to immense myself in the audiophile world, and build myself a great system. I was hoping people could help me to build something from the ground up, given my budget and all.


If anyone is up to the challenge, I would really appreciate any input you may have!!


Here's some background. I have always been a TV/movie/video game/music junkie, and about equally intrigued by video quality and audio quality. I have never had the place, funds, or opportunity to set up my own Home Theater system until now though...


My living room setup is approximately 14' x 11'


So, yesterday I purchased the Samsung LNT5271 $2,300...It is en route to my house as we speak. I also bought the Playstation 3 and a collection of blu-ray discs (and GTA4 and Devil May Cry 4). This is really all for naught if I don't accompany it with a sick, crisp, clear, and floor pounding audio setup.


My intention is to build a 5.1 system with a budget of $2K. So...please help!!


I am currently leaning towards an Onkyo XSR605 for the receiver for $399... What do you guys think? Is that a good enough receiver? If I upgrade some components of my setup at a later date, am I going to be able to power everything? I definitely need something with 2 hdmi in/1 out (PS3 and DirecTV)


On the subwoofer, I was leaning towards the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 ($499). Too much bass for my receiver? Good buy, or is there something of equivelant power that is a bit cheaper?


That all leaves me with only $1,100 for the center, Front, and rear channels? Not enough? Should I invest more here, and less in the sub? What would people suggest for solid front channel loudspeakers, a center channel, and rear bookshelves.


Again, I'm looking for a system which will make my movie experience like I'm at a movie thearer, and my music experience like I'm at a concert, but I only have about $2K to try and make that happen.


Let me know what you guys think!!!!!! In the meantime I will continue to wade through this thread to look at other peoples questions and answers. I apologize if I don't know a lot of the lingo, and am still about







. Thanks to anyone who can offer me some help.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JayBlay77* /forum/post/13741511
> 
> 
> Alright so this may have been asked before but I'm confused on what the difference between the Polk R50 and the Monitor 50. Is one better than the other? The R50 sells for cheaper on sites like Fry's but then on the Polk website the MSRP price for the r50 is higher than the monitor 50. Help please. Thanks.



I haven't heard them side-by-side, but from the info at the Polk site, it looks like the Monitor series is a step up from the R series [from the marketing "prose" they give you]. But the R50s have 6.5" drivers as opposed to the Monitor 50's 5.25" drivers. If you look at the Polk site, they have the specifications on each one, and they seem pretty close to each other to my non-expert eyes.


I suspect that they are very similar in sound quality, but that the R series is older. It looks to me like the Monitor series is positioned to be the new entry level once the "marketing life" of the R series is finally concluded. But without hearing both, I really can't say. Its just that I don't see much of a difference between them looking at the specs alone.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/13733106
> 
> 
> Can anyone please tell me if the jacket on the 14 gauge wire is thicker or thinner than the one on the 16 gauge wire from monoprice? Cause I want to know the thickness because I'm gonna run them though the wiremold. Thanks!



Monoprice has a lot of different 14 and 16 guage speaker wires. Have you tried calling them with your question about each specific one you are thinking of? I've found them to be very helpful. They can probably tell you the net diameter of the various wires they have.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/13733153
> 
> 
> It seems that with HDMI 1.3+ systems, if everything is compliant, the receiver can automatically sync the audio/video, which would sure be nice. Of course my 61" Samsung is only 1.2 :-/



We're probably a year or so away from giving up our 36 CRT TV; the picture quality is so much better on standard def than any of the flat panel TVs I've seen, and most of our viewing is standard def. I'm sure that will change over the next year or so as our satellite service and local stations adopt more and more HD programming.


One good thing about being far from the "bleeding edge" is that most of these issues are worked out long before I spend my money. I keep telling myself that's a good thing ...


----------



## jokeaccount

Is it okay if I run the front 3 speakers using 14 gauge wire and run my surrounds using 16 gauge cause i have some spare 16 gauge wire? Will this hurt the performance in any way. BTW the surrounds will be connected using about 15' of wire.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Demonic11* /forum/post/13755268
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I posted some questions in the main forum, but then I noticed this thread. I must say, what an incredible source of information. Thanks to G-Star and everyone who has contributed their insight and wealth of knowlede. Based on what I've read here, I've started to build a system, and I wanted to get everyone's inputs as to what I'm working on.
> 
> 
> I'm really excited to immense myself in the audiophile world, and build myself a great system. I was hoping people could help me to build something from the ground up, given my budget and all.
> 
> 
> If anyone is up to the challenge, I would really appreciate any input you may have!!
> 
> 
> Here's some background. I have always been a TV/movie/video game/music junkie, and about equally intrigued by video quality and audio quality. I have never had the place, funds, or opportunity to set up my own Home Theater system until now though...
> 
> 
> My living room setup is approximately 14' x 11'
> 
> 
> So, yesterday I purchased the Samsung LNT5271 $2,300...It is en route to my house as we speak. I also bought the Playstation 3 and a collection of blu-ray discs (and GTA4 and Devil May Cry 4). This is really all for naught if I don't accompany it with a sick, crisp, clear, and floor pounding audio setup.
> 
> 
> My intention is to build a 5.1 system with a budget of $2K. So...please help!!
> 
> 
> I am currently leaning towards an Onkyo XSR605 for the receiver for $399... What do you guys think? Is that a good enough receiver? If I upgrade some components of my setup at a later date, am I going to be able to power everything? I definitely need something with 2 hdmi in/1 out (PS3 and DirecTV)
> 
> 
> On the subwoofer, I was leaning towards the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 ($499). Too much bass for my receiver? Good buy, or is there something of equivelant power that is a bit cheaper?
> 
> 
> That all leaves me with only $1,100 for the center, Front, and rear channels? Not enough? Should I invest more here, and less in the sub? What would people suggest for solid front channel loudspeakers, a center channel, and rear bookshelves.
> 
> 
> Again, I'm looking for a system which will make my movie experience like I'm at a movie thearer, and my music experience like I'm at a concert, but I only have about $2K to try and make that happen.
> 
> 
> Let me know what you guys think!!!!!! In the meantime I will continue to wade through this thread to look at other peoples questions and answers. I apologize if I don't know a lot of the lingo, and am still about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Thanks to anyone who can offer me some help.



The sub's a good choice...I'd reconsider on the 605. If you need all the latest HDMI then look at the latest Denon or Pio with pre-outs with 1.3...or the 705. Pre-outs give you a future with the AVR since you can add a separate amplifier if/when your speakers get more demanding or improve with a bit more oomph. Since the Polk RTi blowout is over, then I'd look at the SVS package, SCS/LCR, SBS surround and PB12NSD (you'll need to drop the Outlaw, but it's an improvement). You should be right around $2K and be very happy.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/13757902
> 
> 
> Is it okay if I run the front 3 speakers using 14 gauge wire and run my surrounds using 16 gauge cause i have some spare 16 gauge wire? Will this hurt the performance in any way. BTW the surrounds will be connected using about 15' of wire.



You'll be fine. I'm using 14 for my fronts, and either 16 or 18 for my rears (don't remember now), and it's no problem at all (about the same length as you, too). For reference, my rears are Polk R150s.


----------



## Demonic11

Thanks for the reply Ron,


How do those SVS speakers stack up to an aperion audio 5b setup? Would the aperion be worth the extra money? I'm leaning towards the setup you're suggesting, with the onkyo 705. I'm thinking I might be able to swing an aperion setup though, given the 12 month financing.


Thanks again for your insight!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Demonic11* /forum/post/13762930
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply Ron,
> 
> 
> How do those SVS speakers stack up to an aperion audio 5b setup? Would the aperion be worth the extra money? I'm leaning towards the setup you're suggesting, with the onkyo 705. I'm thinking I might be able to swing an aperion setup though, given the 12 month financing.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your insight!



I haven't heard the Aperions, but they have a great reputation. The 5Bs have similar specs to the SBS 01s. A bit less sensitive and harder to drive (6 ohm). This shouldn't effect how they sound, but you'll need to use more power to drive them to the same volume as the SBSs.


All that said, the SCS 01s front LCR are a signigicant improvement of the SBS 01s and you can get the package for $740 w/o the sub including 3 SCS and 2 SBS. Contact SVS to find out what discount can be applied for adding the sub (I'd recommend the PB12NSD). You're probably looking ~ $1400 shipped (guess). The SVS are neutral to warm, very linear and the systems I've heard sound great. The clincher for me would be the sub. The Aperion sub in the $2K package is 3dbs down at 30hz. It's small, which is a WAF pleaser and is probably musical, but the SVS sub extends into the teens with high output and is extremely clean. Not having heard the Aperions, my gut leans me toward the value of SVS package...I have heard it and the subs make HT a "moving" experience. Obviously, if you need or want cherry, then the Aperion package is a great option.


----------



## Demonic11

Great Ron. You have sold me! Once my government check comes in, it's going right to SVS.


pb12 SND

SCS center

SCS front

SBS sat

Onkyo XSR 705


And I'm under $2K! perfect. Until I get a power conditioner, which I gather is a neccessity. Any suggestions on that? Also, I'm a complete newb, so what gauge/brand wire should I be getting to wire this system up?


Thanks so much for all of your help!!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Demonic11* /forum/post/13770548
> 
> 
> Great Ron. You have sold me! Once my government check comes in, it's going right to SVS.
> 
> 
> pb12 SND
> 
> SCS center
> 
> SCS front
> 
> SBS sat
> 
> Onkyo XSR 705
> 
> 
> And I'm under $2K! perfect. Until I get a power conditioner, which I gather is a neccessity. Any suggestions on that? Also, I'm a complete newb, so what gauge/brand wire should I be getting to wire this system up?
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for all of your help!!



If you're coming out of an HTIB or this is your first rig, you will be amazed. You're going to love it. Let us know.


----------



## Yahmoncool

Hi - I've been out of the audio game for a while - my future parents-in-law asked my advice for an HTiB for around $500 give or take. Any recommendations? I was thinking the HSU VT-12 with the STF-2 and a cheapie Onkyo receiver and random DVD player. That puts me a little high though at around $850.


Thoughts?


----------



## jokeaccount

At monoprice, some of the reviewers under the 12 gauge speaker wire say that they're not actually 12 gauge cause its thinner than normal 12 gauge wire. Is that true? Has anyone ordered 12 gauge from monoprice and have any issues with it?


----------



## astrodanco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jokeaccount* /forum/post/13776075
> 
> 
> At monoprice, some of the reviewers under the 12 gauge speaker wire say that they're not actually 12 gauge cause its thinner than normal 12 gauge wire. Is that true? Has anyone ordered 12 gauge from monoprice and have any issues with it?



I haven't purchased any 12 awg wire from Monoprice, but I have to wonder if the reviewers in question even know how to properly measure wire gauge. I doubt it. After reading their comments I also doubt that they would honestly be able to tell any sound quality difference between using 14 awg and 12 awg speaker wire if given a _double blind_ test. In this case I think it's not the quality of the item reviewed, but rather the quality of the reviewer that is in question.


----------



## arsenic0

Glad i found this thread.







I have a budget of around 1k for reciever & speakers. Dont need DVD Player/etc as thats all covered through my 360 and seperate "MediaPC" (Popcorn Hour) for streaming video.


So, long story short i am one of those lucky guys as i have friend contacts at 3 seperate stores(Bbuy, CCity, Fry's) who can all get employee discounts.


Currently i am looking at getting the new Yamaha RX-663 Reciever for $320(he needs to verify).


So that leaves me with around $650 give or take to fill out the rest of my 5.1 system. I noticed that the speaker list in the main post does not appear to have been updated in quite a while, is there anything else i should be looking for now a days? Knowing my budget and guesstimating -15%(probably low) off for Employee discounts...


Also one thing to note, i live on the top floor(3rd) of an apartment building, so i need good bass but not something thats going to rattle the entire building every time i turn it on...


----------



## Tulpa

Most of the Athenas are gone, although the LS and WS series are still around here and there. The Polk R series kind of comes and goes. The rest should still be available, although they might have gone up a tad in price.


----------



## RobLyons

Great thread but most of the links in the original post are dead. I'm thinking of spending about $500 for receiver and speakers, still not sure if I will buy htib or not. The Onkyo HT-S5100 looks nice and is $499 shipped from amazon.


Also, with all the talk of what wire to buy it reminds me of the article about monster cable vs coat hangers... =)


----------



## flags

I have an Onkyo (790) and swear by it. They make great products at good prices.


----------



## G-star




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/13788797
> 
> 
> I have an Onkyo (790) and swear by it. They make great products at good prices.



wow. i go and hang in the plasma forums for a while, only to return to my 1st home to see that the official Onkyo parrot has returned, singing the same old song.


what happened to the permanent ban?


----------



## flags




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/9856917
> 
> 
> This thread would also be good to people who start out with a HTIB and want to upgrade.
> 
> 
> Say you get a killer deal on a 790 from Shoponkyo, but after a while you get more in your budget and want better sound. Well, the receiver is roughly the same as the Onkyo mentioned in G-Star's link, so you're good to go there, just add the sub or speaker packages and you're on your way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a Bic H-100 is next on my list.




The 790 is a great value and the average listener will be well satisfied at a price far below separates. You can spend twice as much but will not get twice the performance. Save your $ and go with this HTIB.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-star* /forum/post/13794920
> 
> 
> wow. i go and hang in the plasma forums for a while, only to return to my 1st home to see that the official Onkyo parrot has returned, singing the same old song.
> 
> 
> what happened to the permanent ban?



Good question, seems to be back to his normal ways flooding threads with useless one liners.


----------



## T3h Professor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/13796879
> 
> 
> The 790 is a great value and the average listener will be well satisfied at a price far below separates. You can spend twice as much but will not get twice the performance. Save your $ and go with this HTIB.




Oh Jesus, not you again. Go away.


----------



## skOtn

Backstory:

I have a Sony SA-VE335 HTIB system that is looking to get itself replaced. I have been kicking around getting rid of it since I upgraded my tv.


They are a all a single speaker, 3 1/2 x 2, rectangular in shape. I want to stay with a satellite system, and I don't have any issue with running a sub (is currently a 100w 7.5 inch sub). Although I do live in an apartment and try to be courteous to the people around me. The primary usage is movies and games, very little music.


Question 1: Would going to a two-way (like a Klipsch, Polk, or Def Tech) smooth out the sound by going to a separate woofer and teeter even if the ratings on the speaker are higher? Just to play fair I looked at Orb Audio Speakers (which get good reviews) but I'm afraid they are just more of the same of what I have.


Question 2: Would I be correct in my assumption that a satellite speaker with a rectangular full-range speaker vs a round will have sonic issues because there is not room for the speaker to move in the enclosure? Or would it not matter depending on the speakers woofer construction? Is this even a valid question, does shape matter?


I tried to cover all the basis to give you an idea of what I'm working with (sorry about the length)


Appreciate any information you guys could pass on.

Thanks!


----------



## flags

Why did you call me a parrot? You have no couth whatsoever.


----------



## evan_s

Sigh I guess his latest temporary ban is over so he's working on getting a permanent one now.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flags* /forum/post/13798857
> 
> 
> Why did you call me a parrot? You have no couth whatsoever.



Because you say the same thing over and over again, just like....you guessed it...a parrot.


Try helping people based on their specific situation rather than starting threads and post with your usual onkyo is god style and we might start to see it as something other than useless dribble.


----------



## Kysersose

Carry on.


Flags will no longer interfere.


----------



## evan_s




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kysersose* /forum/post/13800782
> 
> 
> Carry on.
> 
> 
> Flags will no longer interfere.



Thank you. I hate to see someone banned but he definitely didn't offer any useful contributions to this thread and clearly wasn't going to leave it be.


----------



## pez__man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yahmoncool* /forum/post/13775730
> 
> 
> Hi - I've been out of the audio game for a while - my future parents-in-law asked my advice for an HTiB for around $500 give or take. Any recommendations? I was thinking the HSU VT-12 with the STF-2 and a cheapie Onkyo receiver and random DVD player. That puts me a little high though at around $850.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?




Other options that might fit your requirements:


Harman Kardon AVR/146 or Panasonic XR-55 receiver??? Cheap at Amazon and free shipping.


Fluance AV-HTB 5.0 speakers??? Cheap direct from Fluance.


Toshiba HD-A30 HD-DVD player (GREAT upconversion of DVDs IMO)??? Cheap on Ebay, might even get some HD-DVDs with it too. (yeah the format is dead, but this upconverts as good or better than any $150 or cheaper "upconverting" DVD player).


Nothing really left for a sub though unless you go up on your budget.


----------



## rjcrjc

First of all, thanks to all for the great contributions. I've read every post in this thread and it has educated me and driven me crazy at the same time.


I'm preparing for my entry into Home Theater. I'm planning to get a Samsung 650 46" tv after tax rebate and before football season.


I'd like to build out a cheap home theater system around it in our living room. Now, I already have a decent stereo system, complete with cd, tape decks, and yes... a turntable! That stereo is in one end of the living room and drives speakers throughout the house and yard.


The TV will go near the other end of the room. At first I was going to try to combine the equipment, but I've settled on having two separate systems - a simple HT system around the TV, leaving the stereo alone for audio.


I should say that I'd like to 'link' the receivers - to be able to take the HT line level output and feed it in to the stereo receiver as an input, only to be able to send TV audio to outside speakers (during a football game, for example, so I can roam around and still hear what's going on).


For the HT setup, I am trying to spend no more than ~$600. I was thinking Onkyo HT-SR800 but I wanted full HDMI switching (audio and video) and more HDMI inputs, as I'd like to future proof the receiver.


That's when I stumbled upon this thread.


So instead of the HTIB, what I'm thinking is this:


Receiver: Onkyo 606 receiver (gives me full HDMI and 4 inputs along with Audyssey). I'm watching this daily, I don't see it under $450 but I expect it'll drop to $400. A refurbed 605 is my second choice, especially if it drops in price with the 606 out. I just like the 4 HDMIs...


I've seen mention of HKs and the Yamaha 663 as well in this thread, I'll be watching prices on the Yamaha and need to review the HK line a little more. I haven't had good luck with Sony receivers and want to avoid.


Speakers: need to stay small. Wife is solidly against 7.1, but is willing to give on 5.1. Need to wall mount them to keep them out of the way. Must be black.


I was looking at the following options:


Dayton HTS-1200B + 8" sub ($190 shipped)

Dayton HTS-1200B + 10" sub ($220 shipped)

Dayton HTS-1200B + 12" sub ($250 shipped)

Polk RM6750 - $260 shipped (missed the Fry's sale)



I am a fan of Polks, still having an old pair with my stereo.


So my question is this. Given that these will be for home theater only - 5.1 movies through blu-ray (one day), are the Daytons a better option than the Polks? They seem to have gotten good marks for value, and the 12" sub option is cheaper than the 8" sub with the Polk.


I could go with the Dayton with the 10" sub and save another $30, but my sense is that folks on this forum recommend not skimping on the sub.


Any comments are greatly appreciated, as are other options.


Also, does my HT line out -> Stereo line in idea make sense? I initially was looking to combine it all into one but I have way too many speakers and old components with the old stereo; if I combined into one system, I'd need to be looking for way more power and I'd be dealing with a ton of wires and distance between TV and speakers versus the single RCA cable for audio output only from HT to Stereo. If that's not going to work, I can live without it.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobLyons* /forum/post/13788655
> 
> 
> Great thread but most of the links in the original post are dead. I'm thinking of spending about $500 for receiver and speakers, still not sure if I will buy htib or not. The Onkyo HT-S5100 looks nice and is $499 shipped from amazon.
> 
> 
> Also, with all the talk of what wire to buy it reminds me of the article about monster cable vs coat hangers... =)



I was looking for an inexpensive system, but focused more on music than HT. But some of the sources I found might help you. For Onkyo check at the shoponkyo.com site to see if they have a factory refurbished system. They have some HTiB and components there at pretty good prices.


Both Harmon Kardon/JBL and Polk Audio have factory clearance stores on eBay, and I see some good deals there as well.


I ended up getting an entry level receiver for my system (the Onkyo 340, IIRC) for about $109 shipped from shoponkyo.com, then a pair of Polk Audio R150's from Frys.com for $49 (plus shipping ... came to around $70). I then picked up the matching center speaker ... the Polk Audio CSR for $80 from Frys.com (it was just over $100 with shipping).


After spending $259 I had a much better sounding system than my old HTiB, even though I didn't have surrounds or a sub. My situation is a bit different in that I don't have HD, and when we upgrade our TV we'll upgrade the receiver to include HDMI. I may also move the Polk R150's to the side position and get tower speakers for the front, but maybe not ... we are really very happy with the bookshelf speakers in front.


A sub would round it out nicely, and for $250 I could get a pretty good one (I think the BIC-100 is about that price), but so far we are OK with what we have. If I find a smoking deal on a sub I'll pick one up.


----------



## sd13

im looking for home theater setup to replace my philips htib. I spend $300 on the philips system last year and it sounds terrible. I just got a 46a650 samsung lcd and i need decent sound for my 18x13 setup. I have a logitech z-2200 2.1 computer speaker system and its sounds fine to my ears. All i need is the same sound quality per speaker as the z-2200 on a 5.1 or higher setup with an hdmi receiver with optical and coax inputs etc. Any suggestions?


----------



## samsurd2

What's your budget?


----------



## buzzy_

"I before E except after C. It's recEIver, damn it - not reciver, not reciever, not... "


their, their samsurd - its not rocket surgery


----------



## metal83

What would you guys think of this set up?


Onkyo 606

Polk RM6880


I actually just picked up the RM6880 for $350 at CC, i couldnt resist with that price. And the Onkyo i guess is $450 right now (with a coupon).


I mainly watch movies, tv, and play games. I listen to music here and there.


I'm just a little torn if i should keep these speakers or not. Maybe i should just spring for some Polk monitor 50's or 60's, I know they will sound much better. But i like the way the RM6880 looks, and is nice an compact and i would have an easier time placing them in my apt.


And i am also torn on the Onkyo. Part of me wants the Yamaha 863 (not 663). But the HDMI clipping i hear that yamaha's have is throwing me off.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sd13* /forum/post/13821470
> 
> 
> im looking for home theater setup to replace my philips htib. I spend $300 on the philips system last year and it sounds terrible. I just got a 46a650 samsung lcd and i need decent sound for my 18x13 setup. I have a logitech z-2200 2.1 computer speaker system and its sounds fine to my ears. All i need is the same sound quality per speaker as the z-2200 on a 5.1 or higher setup with an hdmi receiver with optical and coax inputs etc. Any suggestions?



On the receiver, the lower cost units don't pass audio through with the HDMI, so you end up running optical or coax (or component) audio. I think that would be a deal killer for me; when we get a lcd TV, I'll be upgrading my receiver to one that switches audio as well.


I've been happy with my inexpensive Polk Audio R150's (bookshelf speakers) and CSR center speaker in the front. The Polk R150s are still $49 a pair at Frys.com. The CSR is back up to $179 ... it was $79 a few weeks ago, so you could watch it to see if it goes down. If you aren't driving them very hard they sound OK, certainly as good as any computer speakers I've heard (although I'm not familiar with yours.) You would have to include a sub and surrounds for a 5.1 system for movies, etc., but you could go with another pair of the Polk R150s as surrounds.


Powered subs are expensive, and there's a lot of dissatisfaction with the lower quality ones. BIC H-100 and the Velodyne VX-10 are said to be good subs for the money, but you're still into it for about $150 - $200 with them. I don't like a lot of bass obscuring music, so I'm happy with my system without a sub. It would be nice to have with movies, though.


----------



## tts42572

I'm thinking of this same setup and would also like to hear comments.


Basically, I have it narrowed to 4 receiver choices Yamaha 661/663 or Onkyo 605/606. Really not "up" on the differences between them. They are just way I've seen recommended alot in the forums.


For speakers, have it narrowed to a couple choices...Polk 6750 or Polk RM6880.


Or possibly also considering the Onkyo HT-800 HTIB setup.


Would appreciate thoughts on the above. I have a PS3, HD cable box and our "old" DVD/VCR combo player which is all I really need to run. Might add a CD/mp3 player at some point. The TV we'll have is a Panny 50PZ800.


Interested to hear what people would recommend out of the above choices.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metal83* /forum/post/13835507
> 
> 
> What would you guys think of this set up?
> 
> 
> Onkyo 606
> 
> Polk RM6880
> 
> 
> I actually just picked up the RM6880 for $350 at CC, i couldnt resist with that price. And the Onkyo i guess is $450 right now (with a coupon).
> 
> 
> I mainly watch movies, tv, and play games. I listen to music here and there.
> 
> 
> I'm just a little torn if i should keep these speakers or not. Maybe i should just spring for some Polk monitor 50's or 60's, I know they will sound much better. But i like the way the RM6880 looks, and is nice an compact and i would have an easier time placing them in my apt.
> 
> 
> And i am also torn on the Onkyo. Part of me wants the Yamaha 863 (not 663). But the HDMI clipping i hear that yamaha's have is throwing me off.


----------



## afrogt

Accessories4less has a great deal on a Marantz receiver/Onkyo speaker combo for $499.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...Package/1.html


----------



## slenser

Yay me! I won a HK 347 on ebay. Err, make that two. I thought I was being slick and slipping in a ninja bid for a max of $250.01, but I was too slow (or I thought) and missed the time slot. I even saw someone else's username and bid of $243.49. So I played it a little safer on the next bid and got it for $247.


I was pretty happy until I got to the checkout page for HK and saw two items I won! I sure hope HK is forgiving and will allow me to buy just one of them.


Dang...


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/13845885
> 
> 
> Yay me! I won a HK 347 on ebay. Err, make that two. I thought I was being slick and slipping in a ninja bid for a max of $250.01, but I was too slow (or I thought) and missed the time slot. I even saw someone else's username and bid of $243.49. So I played it a little safer on the next bid and got it for $247.
> 
> 
> I was pretty happy until I got to the checkout page for HK and saw two items I won! I sure hope HK is forgiving and will allow me to buy just one of them.
> 
> 
> Dang...



I'm sure if they don't you'll be able to pass it along to someone here or on craigslist for what you have into it. It's a nice sounding AVR...great deal.


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/13851705
> 
> 
> I'm sure if they don't you'll be able to pass it along to someone here or on craigslist for what you have into it. It's a nice sounding AVR...great deal.



Well, HK just went up a notch for me with their customer service. I got a reply this morning informing me they dropped one of the auctions. They dropped the cheaper of the two, but I am not going to complain about that. Now I can hardly wait until I get my new receiver!


I see Fry's has dropped the price of the Monitor 50 (maple) to $99/ea. How are they compared to the R50?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/13854683
> 
> 
> I see Fry's has dropped the price of the Monitor 50 (maple) to $99/ea. How are they compared to the R50?



Better definition, less bass. Kind of like comparing the Monitor 70s to the RTi8s, but at a lower level. Go listen to them, I think Frys still has some R50s in the demo room.


----------



## slenser

No Frys nearby. I already have the R50s; I was just wondering. I do like my Polks. I can't wait until I get to listen to them on my new HK receiver!


Update: They sent me a tracking number! WOOHOO!


----------



## Tightbudget

Hi All, Am a just a day old to this site, nice to see lots of discussions out here. I enrolled in today and wanted to ask you folks out there for some suggestions. Am on tight budget and am looking at setting up a decent HT. I happen to be looking aound for few days and found a nice open box deal from CC..Denon AVR687 for $90, its a 7.1. Now am on the lookout for decent set of speakers. I think i can go a max to $400. My living room is 18'X13'. I like to have some rich ,clear music with some good bass. Would be used 50% for music and 50% for watching movie. Let me know guys..


----------



## slenser

Well I sure like my Polk R50s but according to Ron the monitor 50 would be a bit better and for only $99 ea. before shipping at Frys. Those are both floor standing speakers. If you want some bookshelf speakers you can get the Polk 150 I believe for $50/pr plus shipping. I got an Athena 12" sub off of woot a month ago when they had it up and it has helped tremendously for the bottom end. A little boomy with some movies, though and this is in a 24 x 12 x 9 room. I cannot comment on other speakers since I haven't had the pleasure of listening to the others recommended here.


----------



## sunsfan1991

I need some advice in putting together a system, I was going to buy an Onkyo 908 but it seems to be out of stock almost everywhere. So I decided to see if I can put together a better system, my price range is about $1,000here is what I have so far. I want a reciever that proceses audio through HDMI so all need to hook up is the HDMI cables.


Reciever = Onkyo SR705 $511

Center Channel = Klipsch Synergy SC-1 $139

Sub = VELODYNE ACOUSTICS VRP1000 $179

Surrounds = Polk Audio R150 $162 (for 4)


That leaves me at about $990, would this work? Should I buy a cheaper reciever and spend more money elsewhere?


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/13866887
> 
> 
> Well I sure like my Polk R50s but according to Ron the monitor 50 would be a bit better and for only $99 ea. before shipping at Frys. Those are both floor standing speakers. If you want some bookshelf speakers you can get the Polk 150 I believe for $50/pr plus shipping. I got an Athena 12" sub off of woot a month ago when they had it up and it has helped tremendously for the bottom end. A little boomy with some movies, though and this is in a 24 x 12 x 9 room. I cannot comment on other speakers since I haven't had the pleasure of listening to the others recommended here.



Thanks Slenser for your input, However that leaves me with an incomplete setup.

Ron or someone could you guys help me out here with your inputs..


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunsfan1991* /forum/post/13869784
> 
> 
> Reciever = Onkyo SR705 $511
> 
> 
> 
> That leaves me at about $990, would this work? Should I buy a cheaper reciever and spend more money elsewhere?



I'd go with the SR605 or an equivalent (refurbished is about $370) unless you need the 705's extra features (basically one more HDMI input, preouts for a separate amplifier, and maybe one or two other bells and whistles.)


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13869986
> 
> 
> Thanks Slenser for your input, However that leaves me with an incomplete setup.
> 
> Ron or someone could you guys help me out here with your inputs..



Check the Denon receiver to see if it will allow you to "build out" your system. My Onkyo receiver can be configured for 2.0, 3.0, and 5.0 systems, and the comparable ".1" systems with a powered sub-woofer.


With just $400 and a desire for a complete 5.1 system, I would be tempted to go with Polk R150 for front ($50 for the pair from Frys.com) and buy a CSR center speaker ($99) and a Velodyne VX-100 sub-woofer or BIC H-100 for about $250. You can then enjoy acceptable stereo sound, good movie playback with the center (great for dialog and sound "movement" across the stage) and subwoofer, and keep some options open. You have a 3.1 system, but it would be fine for my tastes. I think it would sound better than any of the $500 HTiB systems out there.


Later, you could buy a better set of fronts and move the R150 to the sides for the 5.1 setup, or bust your budget right now by $50 and get another pair of the R150. You can upgrade the fronts at a later time and sell the extra pair of R150, or use them on another system.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13864261
> 
> 
> Hi All, Am a just a day old to this site, nice to see lots of discussions out here. I enrolled in today and wanted to ask you folks out there for some suggestions. Am on tight budget and am looking at setting up a decent HT. I happen to be looking aound for few days and found a nice open box deal from CC..Denon AVR687 for $90, its a 7.1. Now am on the lookout for decent set of speakers. I think i can go a max to $400. My living room is 18'X13'. I like to have some rich ,clear music with some good bass. Would be used 50% for music and 50% for watching movie. Let me know guys..



Are you trying to get a 7.1, 5.1 or 2.1 system for $400?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunsfan1991* /forum/post/13869784
> 
> 
> I need some advice in putting together a system, I was going to buy an Onkyo 908 but it seems to be out of stock almost everywhere. So I decided to see if I can put together a better system, my price range is about $1,000here is what I have so far. I want a reciever that proceses audio through HDMI so all need to hook up is the HDMI cables.
> 
> 
> Reciever = Onkyo SR705 $511
> 
> Center Channel = Klipsch Synergy SC-1 $139
> 
> Sub = VELODYNE ACOUSTICS VRP1000 $179
> 
> Surrounds = Polk Audio R150 $162 (for 4)
> 
> 
> That leaves me at about $990, would this work? Should I buy a cheaper reciever and spend more money elsewhere?



Am I missing something. You've got a center channel, 4 surrounds and a subwoofer. Where are the main speakers? And since you picked a Klipsch Synergy for your center, are we to assume you already have a pair of Klipsch Synergy speakers for your left and right main setup?


----------



## sunsfan1991




> Quote:
> I'd go with the SR605 or an equivalent (refurbished is about $370) unless you need the 705's extra features (basically one more HDMI input, preouts for a separate amplifier, and maybe one or two other bells and whistles.)



That may be something I look into, because it looks like I forgot something (see below)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13871103
> 
> 
> Am I missing something. You've got a center channel, 4 surrounds and a subwoofer. Where are the main speakers? And since you picked a Klipsch Synergy for your center, are we to assume you already have a pair of Klipsch Synergy speakers for your left and right main setup?



I was planning on using 2 of the surrounds for fronts, I guess that is a bad idea. It looks like I will swap out two of the surrounds for better fronts.


Thanks for pointing that out


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13871003
> 
> 
> Are you trying to get a 7.1, 5.1 or 2.1 system for $400?



I would like to start with atleast 5.1 and may be later upgrade to 7.1

Has anyone heard of Fulance ? If then how are they ? I have no place to check them out. On cnet i see good reviews abt them ?

Anyone pls jump in ?


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunsfan1991* /forum/post/13872260
> 
> 
> I was planning on using 2 of the surrounds for fronts, I guess that is a bad idea. It looks like I will swap out two of the surrounds for better fronts.



You can use the R150 in all four positions for a 5.1 system. I have them as fronts in a 3.0 system, and I think I really need a sub-woofer for movies and the low end on things like orchestral music (for pop and rock the system is fine). But they sound fine as fronts as long as I'm not trying to "go to 11".


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunsfan1991* /forum/post/13872260
> 
> 
> That may be something I look into, because it looks like I forgot something (see below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning on using 2 of the surrounds for fronts, I guess that is a bad idea. It looks like I will swap out two of the surrounds for better fronts.
> 
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out



And if you're a Suns fan, you're probably in the Phoenix area? Go to your local Fry's and pickup the Velodyne VX-10 for $129. Its essentially the same sub as the VRP1000 so you can save yourself $50 . I know my store in NoCal has them for that price.



No, its fine to use 2 of the R150 surrounds as fronts, but why are you mixing in a Klispch center channel? You should get a Polk center so it matches your other speakers in tonal quality. Klipsch sounds nothing like Polks.


You should look at the Polk CSR or CS1. They're both $99.


----------



## john2k

This thread is awesome...helped me alot on the whole process of putting together my system.


----------



## john2k

fronts: R50

center: CSR

surrounds: r150

sub: velvo vx10


haven't decided on the receiver yet.


what do you guys think?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *john2k* /forum/post/13896431
> 
> 
> fronts: R50
> 
> center: CSR
> 
> surrounds: r150
> 
> sub: velvo vx10
> 
> 
> haven't decided on the receiver yet.
> 
> 
> what do you guys think?



Looks good, very common setup in this forum. Now pull the trigger and make a purchase!


----------



## LBFilmGuy

Okay guys, I have just recently had the urge to add surround sound to my bedroom setup consisting of my 42" Panasonic plasma and PS3.


I was looking at the Panasonic HTIB PT760...I like the wireless rears but not be able to do audio over HDMI therefore not getting any HD audio bothers me a bit.


With that great deal on the Yamaha V663BL receiver I am thinking of picking that up and having my family get my speakers for me for my college graduation gift










What are some affordable but good sounding speakers and a sub that can be had for around the price of the HTIB ($400)? Is it possible?


Thanks in advance


----------



## Tightbudget

Has anyone in this network used Flunace speakers ? any comments or thoughts would be helpful


----------



## ORPhD

I'm trying to clearly identify the differences between the AVR 247 and 347. So far, the only things I came up with that the 347 has that the 247 doesn't are...


-5W increase per channel

-1 extra optical and 1 extra coaxial input

-learning remote

-multizone stuff (I don't really understand it and don't intend to use it)

-detachable power cord

-IR carrier output (whatever that is...guessing I won't need it)


From what I can gather, neither handles decoding of TrueHD or DTS-MA. Am I right about this? Are there other features I'm missing? Thanks.


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *john2k* /forum/post/13896431
> 
> 
> fronts: R50
> 
> center: CSR
> 
> surrounds: r150
> 
> sub: velvo vx10
> 
> 
> haven't decided on the receiver yet.
> 
> 
> what do you guys think?



I have the same setup (but with a Polk 8" sub), and like it a lot.


I went with the Onkyo 505 receiver. I would consider that the minimum, since you might want to add two more speakers at some point (the 505 does 7.1). The 505 doesn't do the "single cable" trick (everything over HDMI), so you'd need to run separate audio cables for each device connected to it. Not a problem in most setups, but something to consider.


----------



## Demonic11

Ron or anyone else, please advise!


I'm about to pull the trigger on my system. Turns out I found what I think is a great deal on a set of Aperion 532 Concert's. Getting the whole 7.1 including the 12" sub (used of course) for $500. I'm thinking that's a great deal, but do you guys agree? I'll be auditioning them tonight, to make sure everything is in good condition, but will this blow any new $500 5.1 or 7.1 setup out of the water?


Also, My plan is to couple it with either an Onkyo 605 or 705. What do you suggest?


I am so excited to get my first system setup, but I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.


Thanks for all of your help guys. you rock!!!


----------



## Tightbudget

Receiver : Denon AVR 687

Fronts Left & Right : R50

center: CSR

Surrounds Left & Right: R150

Rear Left & Right : R150

Sub: velvo vx10


What do you guys think about this config .. ? Should I use R15 for my surround or the above config is better.. Pls do let me know you thoughts..


----------



## Florida_Gator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13921937
> 
> 
> Receiver : Denon AVR 687
> 
> Fronts Left & Right : R50
> 
> center: CSR
> 
> Surrounds Left & Right: R150
> 
> Rear Left & Right : R150
> 
> Sub: velvo vx10
> 
> 
> What do you guys think about this config .. ? Should I use R15 for my surround or the above config is better.. Pls do let me know you thoughts..



I think you'll be amazed at what you get from your investment -- I sure was (same setup, basically).


If you already have the R15's, then by all means use them as rear-surrounds. They'll match the rest just fine. If you don't, go with another set of R150s.


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Florida_Gator* /forum/post/13922278
> 
> 
> I think you'll be amazed at what you get from your investment -- I sure was (same setup, basically).
> 
> 
> If you already have the R15's, then by all means use them as rear-surrounds. They'll match the rest just fine. If you don't, go with another set of R150s.



I just have the receiver at this point, am yet to order for the speakers. What would you suggest , Dont pick the R15's and just go with R150 for rear and surround. When i checked on fry's they are out of stock (R150). let me know , Which is a better match for my config R15 or R150..


----------



## afrogt

The R15 and R150 are practically the same speaker. The difference is one is front ported and one rear ported. The R150 is a newer model so it has an updated cabinet. They both use...


Mid/Woofer 1 - 5-1/4" Diameter (13.34cm)

Dynamic Balance mineral filled polymer composite cone driver, shielded


Tweeter 1 - 3/4" Diameter (1.91cm)

Dynamic Balance silk/polymer composite dome, shielded



If you plan to mount them on the wall get the R15 since it has a keyhole slot for that purpose. Otherwise get the R150.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13924577
> 
> 
> I just have the receiver at this point, am yet to order for the speakers. What would you suggest , Dont pick the R15's and just go with R150 for rear and surround. When i checked on fry's they are out of stock (R150). let me know , Which is a better match for my config R15 or R150..



The 150s are an updated version of the 15s so both will be an equal match, the build quality is a little better on the 150s imo but the same speaker, get whichever you can get a better deal on.


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13925326
> 
> 
> The 150s are an updated version of the 15s so both will be an equal match, the build quality is a little better on the 150s imo but the same speaker, get whichever you can get a better deal on.



Thankyou guys.. really appreciate your inputs.


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13925316
> 
> 
> The R15 and R150 are practically the same speaker. The difference is one is front ported and one rear ported. The R150 is a newer model so it has an updated cabinet. They both use...
> 
> 
> Mid/Woofer 1 - 5-1/4" Diameter (13.34cm)
> 
> Dynamic Balance mineral filled polymer composite cone driver, shielded
> 
> 
> Tweeter 1 - 3/4" Diameter (1.91cm)
> 
> Dynamic Balance silk/polymer composite dome, shielded
> 
> 
> 
> If you plan to mount them on the wall get the R15 since it has a keyhole slot for that purpose. Otherwise get the R150.



Thanks for the inputs


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13925326
> 
> 
> The 150s are an updated version of the 15s so both will be an equal match, the build quality is a little better on the 150s imo but the same speaker, get whichever you can get a better deal on.



For the center do you think CSR is a good match ? I see the CS1 aslo priced the same. What do you think ? Fry's have run out of R150 any idea where i can get the same deal ?


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Demonic11* /forum/post/13907455
> 
> 
> 
> Also, My plan is to couple it with either an Onkyo 605 or 705. What do you suggest?



605 unless you need the 705's extra HDMI input or the preouts for an external amp.


----------



## LBFilmGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LBFilmGuy* /forum/post/13897981
> 
> 
> Okay guys, I have just recently had the urge to add surround sound to my bedroom setup consisting of my 42" Panasonic plasma and PS3.
> 
> 
> I was looking at the Panasonic HTIB PT760...I like the wireless rears but not be able to do audio over HDMI therefore not getting any HD audio bothers me a bit.
> 
> 
> With that great deal on the Yamaha V663BL receiver I am thinking of picking that up and having my family get my speakers for me for my college graduation gift
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are some affordable but good sounding speakers and a sub that can be had for around the price of the HTIB ($400)? Is it possible?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



anyone?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> What are some affordable but good sounding speakers and a sub that can be had for around the price of the HTIB ($400)? Is it possible?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



Need more info. Towers? Bookshelf speakers? Small Satellites?


----------



## ORPhD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ORPhD* /forum/post/13898974
> 
> 
> I'm trying to clearly identify the differences between the AVR 247 and 347. So far, the only things I came up with that the 347 has that the 247 doesn't are...
> 
> 
> -5W increase per channel
> 
> -1 extra optical and 1 extra coaxial input
> 
> -learning remote
> 
> -multizone stuff (I don't really understand it and don't intend to use it)
> 
> -detachable power cord
> 
> -IR carrier output (whatever that is...guessing I won't need it)
> 
> 
> From what I can gather, neither handles decoding of TrueHD or DTS-MA. Am I right about this? Are there other features I'm missing? Thanks.



Bump? Any other differences between the Harman Kardon AVR 247 and 347 models?


----------



## LBFilmGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13934541
> 
> 
> Need more info. Towers? Bookshelf speakers? Small Satellites?



bookshelfs would be fine as long as they can be put on stands, and i prefer wireless rears










the size of my room is 16 feet long by 13 feet wide if that helps


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LBFilmGuy* /forum/post/13934999
> 
> 
> bookshelfs would be fine as long as they can be put on stands, and i prefer wireless rears



You can get a few bookshelfs for your $400 budget. A center channel and a sub might put you a bit over, though.


Wireless rears would be tougher without going for a (lower grade) HTIB. The Rocketfish wireless kit will make virtually any set of surrounds wireless, but they'll set you back $100 or so.


----------



## LBFilmGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13935032
> 
> 
> You can get a few bookshelfs for your $400 budget. A center channel and a sub might put you a bit over, though.
> 
> 
> Wireless rears would be tougher without going for a (lower grade) HTIB. The Rocketfish wireless kit will make virtually any set of surrounds wireless, but they'll set you back $100 or so.



yeah that's what I was afraid of...thanks bud


i think for now in my bedroom the panasonic HTIB i mentioned will be just fine.


----------



## Florida_Gator

The "Rocketfish" sounded great, but I read some reviews (and their info page), and since they use 2.4ghz for the signal, it's no good for me, since I have a wireless LAN in my house that uses the same frequency. Don't want to deal with collisions...


Strange that they picked that frequency.


----------



## Kingcarcas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *john2k* /forum/post/13896431
> 
> 
> fronts: R50
> 
> center: CSR
> 
> surrounds: r150
> 
> sub: velvo vx10
> 
> 
> haven't decided on the receiver yet.
> 
> 
> what do you guys think?



I've been going for pretty much the same thing with my HK AVR-146 and now i can't find the R50s anywhere







What do you guys think i should do......oh and i don't want the Cherry version, i'd like my HT to be all black.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kingcarcas* /forum/post/13941421
> 
> 
> I've been going for pretty much the same thing with my HK AVR-146 and now i can't find the R50s anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think i should do......oh and i don't want the Cherry version, i'd like my HT to be all black.



Black R50s haven't been seen in a long time.


Audio Advisor has some LS series floorstanders for $100-150. They are black.


There may be some other brands on clearance. Otherwise, I'd say scour eBay.


----------



## Tightbudget

The R50 and R150 all of them seem to be soldout on frys, Any idea when they would be back ?


----------



## Land Cruiser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13945281
> 
> 
> The R50 and R150 all of them seem to be soldout on frys, Any idea when they would be back ?



Here is the response I received when I inquired about the R150's:


Dear valued Frys.com customer,


Thank you for contacting Frys.com.


Unfortunately we do not yet have a promised delivery date from the

manufacturer.


Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.


Sincerely,

Darrell P

Sales Department


----------



## ngauger

Looking for a little input.


My situation:

Just recently purchased a new projector/screen (my first). The original plan was to reuse my existing HTIB setup from my old television, but shortly there after I came to the conclusion that my new big screen was guna need some bigger/better sound.


The space is roughly 12'x25' all seating will be in the back half of the room. My original budget for some new audio ~600$, upon doing some reading here and a bit of shopping around, I now suspect that my original budget was wishful thinking







. Primary A/V input will be a PS3, primary purpose will be movie watching with some TV watching and game playing.


Current plan: (all prices are shipped, after tax etc...)

Onkyo TX-SR605, black (375$)

Polk Monitor 50x2, black (260$)

Polk CS1, black (100$)

JBL Sub12 (165$-200$)

Polk R300x2, black (110$) or Polk Monitor 50x2, black (260$)


So the original budget is blown, so I have a few questions:

1) Is there anything I can do to bring the price back in a bit without sacrificing much?

2) For my space/setup is that center adequate? With what I now plan on spending should I spend a little more and improve the center choice?

3) For the rears, will I notice any difference between the R300s and the M50s other than ascetics? Are the M50s worth the extra money in the back?

4) Given the above plan/budget are there any major/minor mistakes/improvements to be made before I pull the trigger?



Any and all advice/comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Nathan


----------



## onebxr

 http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=38607351 

this will save you 100.00. I buy all my recievers from ecost and havent had a problem to date.

-Rich



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ngauger* /forum/post/13961206
> 
> 
> Looking for a little input.
> 
> 
> My situation:
> 
> Just recently purchased a new projector/screen (my first). The original plan was to reuse my existing HTIB setup from my old television, but shortly there after I came to the conclusion that my new big screen was guna need some bigger/better sound.
> 
> 
> The space is roughly 12'x25' all seating will be in the back half of the room. My original budget for some new audio ~600$, upon doing some reading here and a bit of shopping around, I now suspect that my original budget was wishful thinking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Primary A/V input will be a PS3, primary purpose will be movie watching with some TV watching and game playing.
> 
> 
> Current plan: (all prices are shipped, after tax etc...)
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR605, black (375$)
> 
> Polk Monitor 50x2, black (260$)
> 
> Polk CS1, black (100$)
> 
> JBL Sub12 (165$-200$)
> 
> Polk R300x2, black (110$) or Polk Monitor 50x2, black (260$)
> 
> 
> So the original budget is blown, so I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) Is there anything I can do to bring the price back in a bit without sacrificing much?
> 
> 2) For my space/setup is that center adequate? With what I now plan on spending should I spend a little more and improve the center choice?
> 
> 3) For the rears, will I notice any difference between the R300s and the M50s other than ascetics? Are the M50s worth the extra money in the back?
> 
> 4) Given the above plan/budget are there any major/minor mistakes/improvements to be made before I pull the trigger?
> 
> 
> 
> Any and all advice/comments are welcome.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Nathan


----------



## Lissa

A few years ago, the fine folks of this forum directed me toward the Athena Micras and an Onkyo 603. My husband and I LOVE them! They lived quite happily in the bedroom for several years. Now we've gotten a new 52" tv for the living room and the Onkyo was yanked (as the better of the two receivers) while the Athenas stayed put.


Now I'm thinking of upgrading the living room. The speakers are nothing to speak of, the center channel is weak, and DH wants to move the sub to another room. I had envisioned putting together an Athena system only to find they are discontinued. Since I'll be piecing this one together slowly over the next few months, I can't trust that the Athenas will be still be around when I'm ready to buy them. I see the posts on Polks, but I worry those won't be around either (the R50s I keep reading about).


So, where should I turn? ... what's good? I'm looking for either a speaker system (a la Micras) for under $500 or individual pieces that can be bought over time. With the latter, price is more flexible, but I don't want to spend more than $150-200 for any single piece if I can help it. I'd also prefer floorstanding fronts, but can be flexible. If you were limited to one speaker/month, what would you buy?


Here's what we have:

-Onkyo 603 rcvr

-Samsung 52" LCD (650 - gorgeous, btw!)

-Fairly large room, with an open floor plan

-Mostly HDTV & movies (BRD & HD)


Thanks!


----------



## bytor99999

OK, so I see some basic suggestions throughout this thread from everyone on the following


Onkyo 605 $259.99 at ecost till a couple days

Polk R50s, but won't work for my setup. They won't hang on the wall or ceiling.









Polk R150s, if ever available again at Fry's $49 a pair for 5.1 or $98 total for 7.1

CS1 from Amazon - ~$100 shipped, thanks PensDevil


I forgot the Sub that everyone recommends.

Bic Acoustech H-100 $250/$200, thanks Tulpa

or Velodyne VX-10 $200


Total:

$800+??????


Anyway, I have a $600 budget, and all the speakers will be hung from the ceiling, maybe just maybe the front/center on the wall where the Flat Panel TV will be mounted to the wall.


I want HDMI for audio and video. 5.1 at first to be able to upgrade to 7.1 later. Is the Onkyo 605 that good? I saw some really bad reviews on Amazon that gave me a scare.


Thanks for the great thread here.


bytor99999


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13965906
> 
> 
> I forgot the Sub that everyone recommends.



Bic Acoustech H-100, usually. $250 on eBay. The AV123 X-sub for around the same price is also a good option.


Under $200, usually the Velodyne VX-10 is recommended.


----------



## Kingcarcas

I was recommended the Dayton Sub-100 which is about $100


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lissa* /forum/post/13962606
> 
> 
> A few years ago, the fine folks of this forum directed me toward the Athena Micras and an Onkyo 603. My husband and I LOVE them! They lived quite happily in the bedroom for several years. Now we've gotten a new 52" tv for the living room and the Onkyo was yanked (as the better of the two receivers) while the Athenas stayed put.
> 
> 
> Now I'm thinking of upgrading the living room. The speakers are nothing to speak of, the center channel is weak, and DH wants to move the sub to another room. I had envisioned putting together an Athena system only to find they are discontinued. Since I'll be piecing this one together slowly over the next few months, I can't trust that the Athenas will be still be around when I'm ready to buy them. I see the posts on Polks, but I worry those won't be around either (the R50s I keep reading about).
> 
> 
> So, where should I turn? ... what's good? I'm looking for either a speaker system (a la Micras) for under $500 or individual pieces that can be bought over time. With the latter, price is more flexible, but I don't want to spend more than $150-200 for any single piece if I can help it. I'd also prefer floorstanding fronts, but can be flexible. If you were limited to one speaker/month, what would you buy?
> 
> 
> Here's what we have:
> 
> -Onkyo 603 rcvr
> 
> -Samsung 52" LCD (650 - gorgeous, btw!)
> 
> -Fairly large room, with an open floor plan
> 
> -Mostly HDTV & movies (BRD & HD)
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If you like Athena you can put together a full system at your $500 budget now with the LS series from Audioadvisor and have Floor Speakers up front.


1 pr LS-300 floor speakers, LSC-100 Center and 1pr LS-100 bookshelves would be just under your budget.


Individuals that can be bought over time at


----------



## Lissa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13967706
> 
> 
> If you like Athena you can put together a full system at your $500 budget now with the LS series from Audioadvisor and have Floor Speakers up front.
> 
> 
> 1 pr LS-300 floor speakers, LSC-100 Center and 1pr LS-100 bookshelves would be just under your budget.
> 
> 
> Individuals that can be bought over time at
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was looking at that exact setup. There are a few problems preventing me from pulling the trigger: 1) The LS100's are too big for rears with the furniture layout. LS50's would be better, but not much luck finding those. 2) I need the sub too, that adds another $150 from AA. 3) Shipping for this exact setup is $100 for me. That makes it all $750 which does blow the budget for a single expense. If I knew that they'd still be available over the next few months I could swing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've considered buying just the fronts and center for now, but again I'm chicken that I won't be able to get the rest.


----------



## PensDevil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13965906
> 
> 
> OK, so I see some basic suggestions throughout this thread from everyone on the following
> 
> 
> Polk CSR $179 at Fry's
> 
> 
> bytor99999



You can do better than the CSR for a better price.

CSR from Amazon (via Crutchfield) - $107 shipped


or even better

CS1 from Amazon - ~$100 shipped


----------



## bytor99999

Has anyone used R150s as the front speakers? or is it recommended not to do that.


Thanks


bytor99999


----------



## bytor99999

I just got an idea, I can get almost $800 in gift cards for Sears through the thank you network points. Are there any speakers or components that people have recommended here that Sears sells too? Then I can offset going over my budget.


Is this a good Receiver?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...sName=View+All 


Thanks


bytor99999


----------



## slenser

I finally ordered a CS1. I ordered a cherry to match my R50s so it cost me $30 more than the black would from Amazon. I can't wait to hear my system when it comes. This is so much better than HTIB! I may even upgrade the main fronts and put the R50s in the rear later. Nice to have options.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13972046
> 
> 
> I just got an idea, I can get almost $800 in gift cards for Sears through the thank you network points. Are there any speakers or components that people have recommended here that Sears sells too? Then I can offset going over my budget.
> 
> 
> Is this a good Receiver?
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...sName=View+All
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> bytor99999



Sony DG520 not really good. Unfortunately Sears hasn't carried much in the way of component audio in quite some time. They got rid of components and went with HTIB systems.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13970154
> 
> 
> Has anyone used R150s as the front speakers? or is it recommended not to do that.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> bytor99999



You can use them as fronts. They may not dig quite as deep as R50s (or any floorstander, for that matter) but they are perfectly acceptable bookshelf speakers that you can use as you please.


A lot of people opt for R50 fronts and R150 rears because their budget and space allows for floorstanders up by the display, whereas in the surround positions, bookshelf types tend to be preferable (usually mounted high on the wall or on stands.) But you can have bookshelf speakers all around if you want.


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/13974511
> 
> 
> You can use them as fronts. They may not dig quite as deep as R50s (or any floorstander, for that matter) but they are perfectly acceptable bookshelf speakers that you can use as you please.
> 
> 
> A lot of people opt for R50 fronts and R150 rears because their budget and space allows for floorstanders up by the display, whereas in the surround positions, bookshelf types tend to be preferable (usually mounted high on the wall or on stands.) But you can have bookshelf speakers all around if you want.



Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I can't have speakers near the floor, our cats like to knock them over and break them. That is what happened to my last HT Speakers, so I learned.










bytor99999


----------



## Tightbudget

Am still waiting for fry's to get their stock of R50's and R150's.. I hope they get them soon. I dont see anyother seller anywhere close to their deal.


----------



## bytor99999





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/13976416
> 
> 
> Am still waiting for fry's to get their stock of R50's and R150's.. I hope they get them soon. I dont see anyother seller anywhere close to their deal.



I hope so to. I am sure if the website has them out of stock, it is the same as if you went into the store. But, I am going to day for lunch anyway, I might listen to some other pairs. Anyone have a good second choice after the R150s?


Thanks


bytor99999


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13977530
> 
> 
> I hope so to. I am sure if the website has them out of stock, it is the same as if you went into the store. But, I am going to day for lunch anyway, I might listen to some other pairs. Anyone have a good second choice after the R150s?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> bytor99999



$69/pr! Free shipping, 30 day trial, Free return shipping. So you have nothing to lose.
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/DRH...uctID=95122700 


And here's a review also comparing it with the popular Insignia NS-B2111 from Best Buy.
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=838


----------



## bytor99999

Thanks aFrogt.


So when I went to Fry's they had a pair of R150s but at $179 a pair. Amazing how they can;t even match their own "online" price.










So I am thinking frys online won't ever get these back in stock. How long has it been since the last time.


Anyway, I am thinking it might be time to just order them from Amazon for $79 a pair instead.


What do you guys think of a refurb Onkyo 605?


thanks


bytor99999


----------



## afrogt

How cheap is a refurb 605? A new one only cost $349.


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13981906
> 
> 
> How cheap is a refurb 605? A new one only cost $349.



$90 cheaper at $259.99


bytor99999


----------



## neutralaction

Ok guys, well I have been paroosing for a little while and I think im ready for a purchase, earlier today I picked up the HK AVR146 off ebay for 130, then I was contemplatng doing the Athena LS-100 for fronts and surrounds, then the LSC-100 for the center, leaving like $400 for a sub, thoughts? It will be very little music with almost all gaming and movies.


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13982515
> 
> 
> $90 cheaper at $259.99
> 
> 
> bytor99999



Wow, and here I was worried that I wouldn't get a response in time that the "deal would end, they had had one left last night, and the time was clicking down. But today I went to the link

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=38607351 


And not the timer is reset and they now have 7 left. Hmm, I guess they are having a "Going out of business sales" for the past 50 years. As in some day they will go out of business but just not yet.










I hate the "Hurry up and buy because you will miss out" scams like a website like that runs. I now question their integrity and therefore the quality of their products. (ecost products, not Onkyo)


bytor99999


p.s. I just say in the Fry's ad today they have the R300 floor standing speakers for under $50 each speaker.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13984767
> 
> 
> Wow, and here I was worried that I wouldn't get a response in time that the "deal would end, they had had one left last night, and the time was clicking down. But today I went to the link
> 
> http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=38607351
> 
> 
> And not the timer is reset and they now have 7 left. Hmm, I guess they are having a "Going out of business sales" for the past 50 years. As in some day they will go out of business but just not yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the "Hurry up and buy because you will miss out" scams like a website like that runs. I now question their integrity and therefore the quality of their products. (ecost products, not Onkyo)



Well, factory refurbished units are limited to stock on hand, so you'll always find a bit of that going on. I bought my 304 receiver from the shoponkyo.com site at significant savings ... that's Onkyo's factory site ... and you have to watch to see when they have your particular product available. Right now, I see one 605 there for $369 in black. Their price includes shipping, and you are buying directly from the manufacturer rather than another web site merchant.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neutralaction* /forum/post/13982633
> 
> 
> Ok guys, well I have been paroosing for a little while and I think im ready for a purchase, earlier today I picked up the HK AVR146 off ebay for 130, then I was contemplatng doing the Athena LS-100 for fronts and surrounds, then the LSC-100 for the center, leaving like $400 for a sub, thoughts? It will be very little music with almost all gaming and movies.



that would make a great budget setup and $400 for a sub will put you in the budget SVS, ED, HSU and Outlaw catagory, you will be impressed, the ED a2-300 is still on sale and is the way I'd go for your sub budget, that'll also leave enough in the budget for a spl meter to calibrate the system.


----------



## orvil01

This thread has helped me out alot.


Anyway I haven't really set a budget but here is what i got so far.


BIC Acoustech H-100 12" 250$

Polk Monitor 30's 220$ shipped from ebay.

I have a kenwood reciever (dont recall the model number right now) that i was going to use for now should work ok.


Looking for some surronds and a center channel

I was thinking about the polk monitor 30's and polk CS1 i can get both through amazon for about 214$ total. But want to know if there is something else i should look into that might be better for the money.


Thanks For any input

James


----------



## gus738

hey guys quick question i have a onkyo TX-sr600 with onkyo skf-100 Front Left and Front right and onkyo center skc-100 onkyo sub skw-100 and for rear surrond(s) polk R15, now my setup has been fine until recently i noticed that my surround right sounded less louder then the surround left, i switched the speakrs around an it sounds the same so its not the speakrs i checked the wiring and its ok, as well i should add that sometimes in DTS mode it shuts off in protected mode but it turns on right away if i power it on.


so is my receiver dieing on me? also if i were to say upgrade speakers for better sound wouldnt i be limited by the rms power that each channel supports based on the receiver?


----------



## Wakee

Well I can't post URLS, I had some nice links, but oh well. Damn Spammers. I wasn't sure if this was the best place to post this but I didn't feel it belonged in the receiver or speakers forums and there is a lot of great info in this thread.


After doing some reading I was thinking of getting Onkyo TX-SR705 ($500 refurbished at shoponkyo and $520 at Amazon) and then two JBL Venue Series Stadium 8-Inch 3-Way Speaker($188 on Amazon) Is that receiver way overkill? I was hoping to get something with three HDMI inputs, since we have 3, ps3, xbox, cable box, and only two on the TV. Something with just two could work, since the TV has two, but then something would be left out of the loop or have to be switched.


That being said this is a pretty dense apartment complex, and our living room itself is pretty full, so I don't think I'll be setting up much more than two good speakers for a while. No place to put them.


I defiantly don't want to spend over $1000, but I have a sinking feeling I'm spending too much here, when I'd get the same out of a lower end receiver and two decent bookshelf speakers.


No space for huge surround, neighbors wouldn't appreciate a giant sub, but want something good that could be expanded later.


Thanks.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wakee* /forum/post/14004611
> 
> 
> After doing some reading I was thinking of getting Onkyo TX-SR705 ($500 refurbished at shoponkyo and $520 at Amazon) and then two JBL Venue Series Stadium 8-Inch 3-Way Speaker($188 on Amazon) Is that receiver way overkill? I was hoping to get something with three HDMI inputs, since we have 3, ps3, xbox, cable box, and only two on the TV. Something with just two could work, since the TV has two, but then something would be left out of the loop or have to be switched.



I don't think the receiver is necessarily overkill, but it may be too feature rich compared to the 605 model. Unless you actually use the features (extra HDMI, preouts to an external amp, etc.) It's your call.


----------



## gus738

can someone help me? sorry if i made my post too complex. My receiver doesn't seem to output the right amount of sound to my surround right

i tried switching the speakers and issue stays, sometimes in dts mode the receiver shut off but i can turn it back on.


another question I plan to get a pioneer kuro so i dont need a special processor from a receiver and the tv will have 4 hdmi ports i only use hdmi digital optical toslink cable and RARELY componet.


i also want to understand does a speaker capable of requiring more rms power does it mean it sounds better? i understand that mostly all speakers run in 8 ohms but i just want to ask this to see what better sound quality i can get if upgrade my equipment.


i only have xbox360 directv no blu ray yet


----------



## crewkip

I have read a lot of this thread and just wanted to get some final advice.


Room Size: At least 20x20.


Use: TV, movies, and music


Goal: SQ minded on a budget but with great bass.


My thoughts:

Center: Polk Audio CS1

Floors: Polk Monitor 50's OR Polk R300's

Book Shelf: Polk Monitor 30

Subwoofer: Bic Acoustech H-100 or Cadence X-SUB12


Receiver: No idea right now. Thinking maybe Pioneer VSX-818V-K. Seems decent for a


----------



## orvil01

I ended up getting


The polk monitor 50's

Monitor 30's

Polk CS!

Bic Acoustech H-100


Spent about 700$ on speakers for some reason i decided to be cheap with the receiver and picked up a refurb hk avr146 it seems underpowered, but i liked the features and looks of it for 140$ shipped. Hopefully 30x5 is enough should be i have a pretty small room and i could always upgrade later i suppose.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orvil01* /forum/post/14032473
> 
> 
> I ended up getting
> 
> 
> The polk monitor 50's
> 
> Monitor 30's
> 
> Polk CS!
> 
> Bic Acoustech H-100
> 
> 
> Spent about 700$ on speakers for some reason i decided to be cheap with the receiver and picked up a refurb hk avr146 it seems underpowered, but i liked the features and looks of it for 140$ shipped. Hopefully 30x5 is enough should be i have a pretty small room and i could always upgrade later i suppose.



I got a refurb 147 from their auctions last week. They are well reviewed for their sound quality and don't let the power ratings sway you. HK is more realistic in comparison to other brands as they measure receivers with all channels driven, most measure with 2 or even 1 at times which gives inflated specs. I'm in a 16x12x8 room and it drives my Atheans as well as any other receiver I've used(and their have been many). Also like you say, they are a steal in the auctions with 2yr warranty, when you do decide to upgrade you can sell it for practically nothing lost or use it in another system.


Anyway I don't see it as cheaping out on the receiver. Speakers and sub are going to make far more difference in the overall performance of the system than different receivers in the same price range so you want to put as into those as you can. Enjoy


----------



## gus738

any help guys?


----------



## victoraruba

Just bought the Samsung LN52A550 to use with my PS3 and Tivo HD and I'm looking to set up a home theater.


Considering buying a Sony STRDG720 for the HDMI connections but would like some advice on a 5.1 setup. I thought of myself as technically savvy until I got on here and tried to find some good speakers!











The room it would be in is about 13 X 10 with half of one side open to a dining room. I would like bookshelf size speakers because the entertainment unit I need to use has open air shelves on either side at perfect ear level. I think a pair of the Polk RTi A3's would make good front channel speakers, and Polk CSi A4 for the center.


Now I've heard the fronts and center are the two most important and I will buy them when I buy the receiver, do you think this would be a good setup? Also, what would you suggest for the rears and sub? Do I really need to spend the money on RTi A1's for rears, or is there something Polk offers that's less expensive and I really won't notice the difference?


I'm trying to keep the budget for my 5.1 setup and the receiver around $1,200 total but would be willing to buy the receiver, fronts, and center now and save up for the rest if it makes that much of a difference. Also, please let me know if I'm off the mark on the RTi A3's and CSi A4 for my setup. I think my situation is similar to many others and it could be helpful.


----------



## gus738

victor the only thing i know is that center is the most important about 80% is voice in center and i think its best to have same speaker to match the sound right and the sub can be any brand


----------



## victoraruba

With that in mind, is it better in your opinion to spend a little more on the center channel and go cheaper on the fronts?


----------



## gus738

i think it would be wise toget an ideal of how much a whole set up is going to run so you can try to get maybe a mix or maybe the same brand but the key is to stay as best possible sound to your willing to spent the amount of budget, you already got your budget in mind, now find all the 5 speakers because the .1 sub is least of worries but now what about the watts that the receiver is going to do? i think the most imporant element is the receiver then the center then the rest becaue i think all speakers run at 8 ohms and the receiver needs to deliver those watts at the same time and also do you have a good tv display or is the receiver going to upscale/convert video as well?


theis quite a few things i also dont know thats why i also came here but sorry for on going talk but to answer your question yes i would focus more on the center then the front's. center is voice fronts are the rest of the noise surrounds are more noise (when i mean noise i mean the rest of the sound besides the voice) and of course the sub should handle explosions and what not....


----------



## pens2423




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13984767
> 
> 
> Wow, and here I was worried that I wouldn't get a response in time that the "deal would end, they had had one left last night, and the time was clicking down. But today I went to the link
> 
> http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=38607351
> 
> 
> And not the timer is reset and they now have 7 left. Hmm, I guess they are having a "Going out of business sales" for the past 50 years. As in some day they will go out of business but just not yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the "Hurry up and buy because you will miss out" scams like a website like that runs. I now question their integrity and therefore the quality of their products. (ecost products, not Onkyo)
> 
> 
> bytor99999
> 
> 
> p.s. I just say in the Fry's ad today they have the R300 floor standing speakers for under $50 each speaker.



beware of ecost.com. i tried buying a receiver off of them about a month and a half ago-refurb onkyo 705 for $489. they tried many bait and switch tactics and many shady underhanded tricks, and since i wouldn't bite on any of it and knew exactly what i wanted, they cancelled my order on my about a week and a half later without telling me at all, after they told me in an email that it shipped on a certain date. i then went to amazon and found the same receiver brand new for $523. went with amazon, got the receiver very shortly thereafter, no headaches at all, and have been very very pleased.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/14004712
> 
> 
> I don't think the receiver is necessarily overkill, but it may be too feature rich compared to the 605 model. Unless you actually use the features (extra HDMI, preouts to an external amp, etc.) It's your call.



keep in mind, the 705 can process a 5.1 signal into 7.1, which the 605 cannot do, so this is important if you ever plan to upgrade to a 7.1 speaker array as most sources are not encoded at 7.1, so with the 605 your back surround speakers largely would remain unused.


also, the 705 has the more robust multeq xt auto setup feature vs. the regular audyssey of the 605. the main advantage is that the xt measures over a much larger listening area-8 different seating positions vs. 2. this was important to me because i have a wide listening area and it was important to get all seats sounding good. this may or may not be woth the upgrade to you if you only have 1 main listening position, whereas i do not.


the 705 is also thx select2 certified, which in and of itelself isn't a huge deal, but to me, the thx processing modes sound very good and really help with movie/game/even sports soundtracks in my home listening environment, which isn't acoustically treated (soft carpeting, putting drapes up but i can't install acoustic panels, bass traps, etc) because it is an apartment living room.


the 3 hdmi inputs are also what sold me so that i could use hdmi for the 360, ps3, and pace hd dvr and switch everything through the receiver.


whether these extra benefits are worth it to you is your call. they were to me, so i pulled the trigger on the 705 and have absolutely loved it.


plus, the 705 has a blue ring of light around the volume knob, which the 605 doesn't. so yeah.


----------



## PascalT

I'm looking to start out small in my audio setup. I am not really sure where to begin in my search.. the original post has a lot of ideas but I don't know how to choose from them. I'd rather get quality components and not upgrade all at once than to get cheap stuff and get all the speakers right away.


What is a good way to start? A quality receiver and 2 front speakers? Or do I really need the center one to begin?


I'll be using it mainly for gaming (360) and TV in a small room on an HDTV. My budget for a receiver + front would be about $500.


Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## bytor99999

My latest idea of what I was going to buy


Onkyo 705

Polk M30 L and R Front Speakers

Polk R150 rear and surround (Or for just $20 more per pair I can use M30s here too)

Polk CS1 or CS2 or CSi3 (Which one should I get though?)

Polk Audio PSW 10 subwoofer


bytor99999


----------



## Tightbudget

Alright Guys , Frys had recieved some stock on Friday last week, yesterday I got my R50 and R150. But they had only one pair of R150. I guess i will wait for stock and then get the next pair. till then am gonna be on a 5.1


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/14052123
> 
> 
> Alright Guys , Frys had recieved some stock on Friday last week, yesterday I got my R50 and R150. But they had only one pair of R150. I guess i will wait for stock and then get the next pair. till then am gonna be on a 5.1



Stock in the store or on the website. If in the store, you weren't able to get the online price were you?


I am assuming you went into the store because I would have gotten an email from frys.com if they got them in stock.


Thanks


bytor99999


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/14054113
> 
> 
> Stock in the store or on the website. If in the store, you weren't able to get the online price were you?
> 
> 
> I am assuming you went into the store because I would have gotten an email from frys.com if they got them in stock.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> bytor99999



The stock was online, Am in northeast. I was calling them to check and thats when they had recieved 2 pairs or R150 and a few R50's. R50's are still there online , But R150 will take time to come back. Like you even I had updated my email on frys, but dint get any update. I dont think they updated the info online.


----------



## Tightbudget

Guys , Any info on BIC V-1220 , 12 Inch. 430-Watt Powered Down-Firing Subwoofer ?

How good is it ? is this better than H-100 ?


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14006626
> 
> 
> can someone help me? sorry if i made my post too complex. My receiver doesn't seem to output the right amount of sound to my surround right
> 
> i tried switching the speakers and issue stays, sometimes in dts mode the receiver shut off but i can turn it back on.



Check your speaker set up in the receiver. On my Onkyo receiver, you can boost the sound out of any speaker in increments of 2 db (+ or -), and can also set a "soundstage" type setting for how far you are from the speakers (although that may only be for the fronts). Perhaps that setting is off, or you can boost it for the right surround channel.


----------



## falcon3045

I have been way out of the audio world for a couple of decades (this board is great by the way, would have lived on here thirty years ago).


Need new gear and was looking at HTIB for ease and convenience.

Liked some of what I saw but my old self kicked in and figured I could piece together components that would do it better.


I have looked and read so much I now am totally lost.

Partial to Onkyo but don't really need 7.1.

Will the Onks do 5.1 or less okay? Always liked Yamaha but they don't seem to be too user friendy for an old guy.


Room is pretty big but sitting and viewing/listening area is about 12X20 vaulted ceilings.


Looking to put together something that sounds good for music and movies, (no gaming, we are old). Space is a consideration.


Flexibilty is also important. Want to be able to hook up old and new. Cassette deck, turntable (may get newer with USB), VCR, DVD, etc. would lke HDMI capable pass through at least (with sound a plus, upscaling a plus but not needed).


Low volume sound quality important as well. Don't need to crank it much anymore (well maybe once in a while).


Not after a top of line thing, as mentioned we are old and adequate will do. Price is also a factor. Could buy higher end just don't want too. Example. Bought Vizios knowing there are better out there just couldn't think of a reason to spend the extra cash. Yes, some of the passion is gone.


Thinking $500-1,000 for receiver and speakers. The Onkyo 908 htib looks good but thinking I can do better with separates. Can I?


Suggestions please!


----------



## yrless11

If anyone's interested, AV123 has thier classic x-cs series line in satin black on closeout for $99 +shipping. Shipping from CO to MI is ~50. I don't want to get into the ID/non-ID battle, etc, just trying to point out a great price on these speakers. They are quite large though.


FWIW, you could have a good setup with 5 of these, plus Yamaha V663 for ~$400 shipped, and the bic sub for ~$250 shipped. Pretty solid setup.


----------



## gus738

i checked and the sound is max on each channel distince is corrected. the receiver turns off sometimes even though i can turn it back on right away maybe its dieing? thanks for your reply though



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/14056168
> 
> 
> Check your speaker set up in the receiver. On my Onkyo receiver, you can boost the sound out of any speaker in increments of 2 db (+ or -), and can also set a "soundstage" type setting for how far you are from the speakers (although that may only be for the fronts). Perhaps that setting is off, or you can boost it for the right surround channel.


----------



## Jim Shaffer

Has anyone heard the Yamaha NS-SP6500BL speakers? Radio Shack has them for $130 currently. I'm wondering whether they're really Yamahas because I can't find anything about them on Yamaha's website.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14057018
> 
> 
> I have been way out of the audio world for a couple of decades (this board is great by the way, would have lived on here thirty years ago).
> 
> 
> Need new gear and was looking at HTIB for ease and convenience.
> 
> Liked some of what I saw but my old self kicked in and figured I could piece together components that would do it better.
> 
> 
> I have looked and read so much I now am totally lost.
> 
> Partial to Onkyo but don't really need 7.1.
> 
> Will the Onks do 5.1 or less okay? Always liked Yamaha but they don't seem to be too user friendy for an old guy.
> 
> 
> Room is pretty big but sitting and viewing/listening area is about 12X20 vaulted ceilings.
> 
> 
> Looking to put together something that sounds good for music and movies, (no gaming, we are old). Space is a consideration.
> 
> 
> Flexibilty is also important. Want to be able to hook up old and new. Cassette deck, turntable (may get newer with USB), VCR, DVD, etc. would lke HDMI capable pass through at least (with sound a plus, upscaling a plus but not needed).
> 
> 
> Low volume sound quality important as well. Don't need to crank it much anymore (well maybe once in a while).
> 
> 
> Not after a top of line thing, as mentioned we are old and adequate will do. Price is also a factor. Could buy higher end just don't want too. Example. Bought Vizios knowing there are better out there just couldn't think of a reason to spend the extra cash. Yes, some of the passion is gone.
> 
> 
> Thinking $500-1,000 for receiver and speakers. The Onkyo 908 htib looks good but thinking I can do better with separates. Can I?
> 
> 
> Suggestions please!



Yes you can. You sound like me 4 years ago. Word of warning, my expectations were that I either needed to spend 10K to be satisified or since I hadn't been into stereo for over 20 years, I could be satisfied with a nice htib setup since my enthusiasm wasn't what it used to be (sound familiar). I was wrong on both counts. Went the htib route, started upgrading within a couple of months and got thoroughly addicted to the hobby again for 2 channel and HT. I didn't have to spend $10gs for a reference system either...happily.


If you're going to spend $500 plus on an AVR, make sure you find one with a phone inputs (not all do). Also, you may need an analog switcher if you're going to utilize all those legacy devices.


You can run the AVR in any config, 2 channel, 2.1, 3.1, 5.1 or 7.1.


There are lot's of budget speaker options listed on this thread, but give me your budget and preference, floorstander or bookshelf and I'll give you some others.


----------



## bytor99999

Will Polk M30s be ok to have as all the speakers, except Center? Like in a 7.1 have it as front, surround and rear speakers? I should the front and the others be different, such that the fronts should be a better speakers than any back speakers?


What is the difference between Polk CSR, CS1, CS2 or CSi3 center speakers?


Thanks


bytor99999


----------



## afrogt

The CSR is made to go with the R series speakers, the CS1 and CS2 is made to go with the Monitor speakers like your M30, and the CSi3 is for the RTi line.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...vidual/center/ 



If you have 6 or 7 of the same speakers all around, that would be optimal. Then you wouldn't have to worry about any sound quality issues among the speakers since they all sound the same.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/14063724
> 
> 
> I should the front and the others be different, such that the fronts should be a better speakers than any back speakers?



It's up to you. As afrogt said, it's optimal to have the same speaker on each level, but also keep in mind your fronts/center will see way more action than the surrounds. My system is front heavy for that reason, but you may want a more uniform setup if you listen to music, have room, want wall mounts, etc.


Bottom line, it depends on your situation, but ideally your front three should match, and your surrounds should at least match each of the other surrounds.


----------



## sonny30

okay I think I peiced together the system I want: I'm getting the Onkyo 875 reciever with the Klipsch Quintet III speakers and matching 12" woofer. Anyone have this setup? Any pros/cons that anyone can think of? lmk. thanks


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14063621
> 
> 
> Yes you can. You sound like me 4 years ago. Word of warning, my expectations were that I either needed to spend 10K to be satisified or since I hadn't been into stereo for over 20 years, I could be satisfied with a nice htib setup since my enthusiasm wasn't what it used to be (sound familiar). I was wrong on both counts. Went the htib route, started upgrading within a couple of months and got thoroughly addicted to the hobby again for 2 channel and HT. I didn't have to spend $10gs for a reference system either...happily.
> 
> 
> If you're going to spend $500 plus on an AVR, make sure you find one with a phone inputs (not all do). Also, you may need an analog switcher if you're going to utilize all those legacy devices.
> 
> 
> You can run the AVR in any config, 2 channel, 2.1, 3.1, 5.1 or 7.1.
> 
> 
> There are lot's of budget speaker options listed on this thread, but give me your budget and preference, floorstander or bookshelf and I'll give you some others.



Yes you do sound like you were where I am. Had relatively nice gear 30 years ago. Had "liveable junk" the last 10 or so. On the speakers, thinking $500-800 range. Trying to get the receiver and speakers for as close to $1000 as possible. Had a major power surge and have had to/need to replace TVs, stereo, dvds, vcrs, refrigerator, stove, rewire half the house, etc. pretty ugly.

Space is somewhat limited, would probably want floor stands or towers for R/L. Could spend a little more for something special but not much more. The bill for all this is going to be in the $10K range. Also got a kid in grad school. Had Klipsch and Bose speaker sets in a previous life but believe or not my all time favorites where the old Advent Loudpseaker. Guess I am/was partial to Kloss. At least back in the day...

Thinking buy a receiver I could live wiht for a while and upgrade speakers later. Some of what I read on here says the opposite might be the best way to go????

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonny30* /forum/post/14064696
> 
> 
> okay I think I peiced together the system I want: I'm getting the Onkyo 875 reciever with the Klipsch Quintet III speakers and matching 12" woofer. Anyone have this setup? Any pros/cons that anyone can think of? lmk. thanks




I'm sure it'll sound great but the Onko 875 is overkill for those Klipsch speakers. You're pairing a $1000 receiver with a $500 set of speakers. The Onkyo 705 for $500 would be more than enough for the Klipsch satellites.


Unless you're getting a great deal for the 875, you should spend $500 for the receiver and $1000 for even better speakers.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14064700
> 
> 
> Yes you do sound like you were where I am. Had relatively nice gear 30 years ago. Had "liveable junk" the last 10 or so. On the speakers, thinking $500-800 range. Trying to get the receiver and speakers for as close to $1000 as possible. Had a major power surge and have had to/need to replace TVs, stereo, dvds, vcrs, refrigerator, stove, rewire half the house, etc. pretty ugly.
> 
> Space is somewhat limited, would probably want floor stands or towers for R/L. Could spend a little more for something special but not much more. The bill for all this is going to be in the $10K range. Also got a kid in grad school. Had Klipsch and Bose speaker sets in a previous life but believe or not my all time favorites where the old Advent Loudpseaker. Guess I am/was partial to Kloss. At least back in the day...
> 
> Thinking buy a receiver I could live wiht for a while and upgrade speakers later. Some of what I read on here says the opposite might be the best way to go????
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



Here's a company I recommend alot. Simple solution, great sound quality with a sub that puts you over your budget, but for HT really makes a dramatic impact.

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm 


I'd upgrade the fronts to all SCS, the surrounds to SBS and pair it with the PB12NSD sub. They offer discounts for packages.

www.********** also offers some great packages with similar pricing, however, delays are problematic. Quality is outstanding.


Polk makes some nice speakers and the Monitors are very good. I'd go to their site, link on "where to buy", go to their ebay store and bid on their refurbs. They are mostly returns and full warranty and cosmetically perfect. Great bargains.


----------



## falcon3045

Thanks you have given me some good leads. Leaning toward the SVS after one quick glance. They have a package just as you described. Little more than I was wanting to pay but willing to go the extra for reasonable quality I may keep for a while...Owned any of them?


----------



## sonny30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/14065829
> 
> 
> I'm sure it'll sound great but the Onko 875 is overkill for those Klipsch speakers. You're pairing a $1000 receiver with a $500 set of speakers. The Onkyo 705 for $500 would be more than enough for the Klipsch satellites.
> 
> 
> Unless you're getting a great deal for the 875, you should spend $500 for the receiver and $1000 for even better speakers.



I'm actually getting it from a friend of mine for a steal, he just purchased a denon 5308, and needs to unload the onkyo, so I was more than happy to take it off his hands. He recommended the klipsch speakers for me. I wanted to get the SVS 5.1 set.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14066398
> 
> 
> Thanks you have given me some good leads. Leaning toward the SVS after one quick glance. They have a package just as you described. Little more than I was wanting to pay but willing to go the extra for reasonable quality I may keep for a while...Owned any of them?



I've owned 3 of their subs. Right now, the PB13 Ultra in Rosenut. I've heard the SBS package at a friends a couple of times. Excellent setup for a small to medium sized room. The SCS in the L/C/R configuration is a definite improvement and worth the additional $$$ for imaging and soundstage for music. If you're primarily HT, the SBS/SCS/SBS across the front will be more than fine. Their subwoofers, while large, perform way above pricepoint. Customer service and support is king with this company...truly a cut above...you really can't go wrong.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonny30* /forum/post/14066745
> 
> 
> I'm actually getting it from a friend of mine for a steal, he just purchased a denon 5308, and needs to unload the onkyo, so I was more than happy to take it off his hands. He recommended the klipsch speakers for me. I wanted to get the SVS 5.1 set.



Then I think you should go with your gut. The entry level Klipsh setup won't compete with the SVS package.


----------



## Athens88

Hey,


I'm looking to pair a Yamaha RX-V663, Polk R50s (fronts), and Polk CS1 with some older speakers and a sub. My understanding is the CSR was designed to compliment the R line of Polk products, but would it be unwise to couple the CS1 with R series speakers?



Edit: I'm asking because the rears (Sony SS-MB215) and subs (yamaha JA-3803) are certainly not in the same product line, but I'd like the keep the yamahas at least in this setup, and am worried that sound quality may suffer.


----------



## falcon3045

I actually had a wild thought today. Dangerous sometimes not knowing what you want. You may have been right too. Feel like I am catching a (the) bug here. Haven't bought a thing so far and already thinking about ways to upgrade.

Let me run this one past you....I spend about 35% of my "free" time on this computer, 35% listening to music and maybe 30% on the tv - mostly sports or movies. Don't watch a lot of regular tv these days.

Since most of the AVRs I am looking at will run 2 channel up to 7.1, could I start with two reasonably good (L/R) add a center maybe (3.0 or 3.1), then add sub and surrounds later or should I just go 5.1 package right out of the gate and maybe upgrade to 7.1 later?

Would like the movies to sound good but the music needs too. Hope that makes sense. And which way would you go???


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14071693
> 
> 
> I actually had a wild thought today. Dangerous sometimes not knowing what you want. You may have been right too. Feel like I am catching a (the) bug here. Haven't bought a thing so far and already thinking about ways to upgrade.
> 
> Let me run this one past you....I spend about 35% of my "free" time on this computer, 35% listening to music and maybe 30% on the tv - mostly sports or movies. Don't watch a lot of regular tv these days.
> 
> Since most of the AVRs I am looking at will run 2 channel up to 7.1, could I start with two reasonably good (L/R) add a center maybe (3.0 or 3.1), then add sub and surrounds later or should I just go 5.1 package right out of the gate and maybe upgrade to 7.1 later?
> 
> Would like the movies to sound good but the music needs too. Hope that makes sense. And which way would you go???



Sure, but it does muck up the simplicity







. If you're going bookshelves across the front, then you should add a sub and go 2.1 or 3.1. You'll get the full music experience and the HT front soundstage.


Personally, I went from htib to entry level Polk speakers. Started with fronts, then center, various subs, then matching surrounds. Big upgrade from htib, decent for music, good for HT. Because I kept upgrading subs, the system kept improving, except musically. After a couple of years and listening to many options, I found the right, for me, step up in quality for my front soundstage. A vintage pair of Polk SDA 1Cs. They don't make them like they used to







. I built the rest of the system with the SDA line from there, along with the power to run them.


Get something decent, listen for awhile, then if you're interested start exploring and adding on where it makes sense. I've made a couple of wrong moves, but haven't lost financially on them. I've also, run across deals for gear that I can flip for a profit.


----------



## falcon3045

Yes it does. Opens it up to more options than my little brain can comprehend. Gotta run through all the possible future scenarios you know....

Keep coming back to the SVS units. Spent a lot of time looking and reading last night. The SVS are about the only line that I can't find people complaining about with frequency or trends. Seems that there may be better units out there but probably not for the money. Feel like that should mean something. Love to catch them on sale, a little more than I wanted to spend and will need the stands. Hard to find a sale on backordered high demand stuff though. But they do look good enough that I may have them a little while.

The Polk refurb auctions on e-bay look awful tempting too. Just hard to piece a matching set through there. No guarantee the matching centers and sats will be available if I got a pair of towers....

Think I'm sold on the separates though. The only htib I've heard that didn't sound awful was the ONK 908.

Again, thanks for all the input and info.


----------



## gus738

ron what setup are you speaking of? is it svs? how does it compare to the klipsch RF 83 series 82 or 63 62 series? i personaly dont care about the space they take (book shelf or loudspeaker) but i want to be ablt to hear crips clear and loud lol. i do gaming on 360 (later ps3) majorly then movies then whatever is on tv/music. i'm willing to do a overhall in upgrades from avr to speakrs.... oh is it good to compare in bestbuy for sound system setup? i find it that my liking is to get a mix and match example like klipsch with def tech ... is this a bad ideal?


please advice anyone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14067736
> 
> 
> I've owned 3 of their subs. Right now, the PB13 Ultra in Rosenut. I've heard the SBS package at a friends a couple of times. Excellent setup for a small to medium sized room. The SCS in the L/C/R configuration is a definite improvement and worth the additional $$$ for imaging and soundstage for music. If you're primarily HT, the SBS/SCS/SBS across the front will be more than fine. Their subwoofers, while large, perform way above pricepoint. Customer service and support is king with this company...truly a cut above...you really can't go wrong.


----------



## jordanzelda23

I am going to buy a refurbished Onkyo 605 receiver. I want a good speaker system for around $1,000 or under. I am coming from a $200 Onkyo HTIB that I bought 3 years ago.


I have been looking at either the BIC Acoustech Cinema Series 6 Speaker System, SVS SBS-01 Speaker System, or I have read that a BIC H-100 Sub paired with a Polk Monitor CS1 Center, Polk Monitor 50 - L/R, and Polk Monitor 30 - Surrounds would be a good system.


Which one would you choose for best quality sound? Or would you go with something else altogether? I live in a decent sized living room that is not closed off from the kitchen. The kitchen is behind the couch.


----------



## dbrowdy

I'm just gonna pipe in here and say that I got the SVS system on Ron's recommendation. I've been using it for about a year now and it's fantastic. I use it with a refurb HK AVR that has given me absolutely 0 problems. I set everything up with a sound level meter and the Avia disc, and even read up on where to position my speakers.


My one beef is that my room is setup poorly and the bass is muffled, but that's not the fault of my hardware.







When I can afford a bigger apt, that problem will be remedied.


Ron's a good guy, very knowledgeable and helpful. You could do much worse than to listen to his advice.


D


PS - Ron, I still have your shirts!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14074229
> 
> 
> ron what setup are you speaking of? is it svs? how does it compare to the klipsch RF 83 series 82 or 63 62 series? i personaly dont care about the space they take (book shelf or loudspeaker) but i want to be ablt to hear crips clear and loud lol. i do gaming on 360 (later ps3) majorly then movies then whatever is on tv/music. i'm willing to do a overhall in upgrades from avr to speakrs.... oh is it good to compare in bestbuy for sound system setup? i find it that my liking is to get a mix and match example like klipsch with def tech ... is this a bad ideal?
> 
> 
> please advice anyone



Yes, it's SVS. I'm not familiar with the Klipsch lower lines. It's a step up from the entry level Klipsh Synergy line on BBs floor. If the RF is the Magnolia line, then it's a matter of taste. Klipsch can be piercingly bright, but some love them. The SVS package is a neutral speaker, quite detailed for small books and made to go with their sub. The SBS 5.1 package is a wonderful entry level HT system. If you want a better music first system, the SCS L/C/R option is the way to go.


Mixing Klipsch and Deftech...eehhh, I wouldn't...apples and oranges in sound signature.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14074079
> 
> 
> Yes it does. Opens it up to more options than my little brain can comprehend. Gotta run through all the possible future scenarios you know....
> 
> Keep coming back to the SVS units. Spent a lot of time looking and reading last night. The SVS are about the only line that I can't find people complaining about with frequency or trends. Seems that there may be better units out there but probably not for the money. Feel like that should mean something. Love to catch them on sale, a little more than I wanted to spend and will need the stands. Hard to find a sale on backordered high demand stuff though. But they do look good enough that I may have them a little while.
> 
> The Polk refurb auctions on e-bay look awful tempting too. Just hard to piece a matching set through there. No guarantee the matching centers and sats will be available if I got a pair of towers....
> 
> Think I'm sold on the separates though. The only htib I've heard that didn't sound awful was the ONK 908.
> 
> Again, thanks for all the input and info.



No discounts on SVS, just B stock. It's listed on their page along with disclosure (sometimes minor flaws), but usually a return or overstock. Usually about a 10% discount, sometimes a bit more.


Polkdirect will be around for awhile and I think the Monitors will be a staple, so I doubt if you'll have trouble filling out a system. The Monitors feature the signature Polk sound, wide and airy midrange, tight bass, detailed tweets...however, IMO (and I'm a Polk lover) the tweeters are a tad rough, there can be sibilance, depending on your setup. It's not a huge problem, I lived with it with the Rs and even the RTis suffered a bit. They are a great value and if you prefer a floorstander...I'd go with M60s, a CS2 and M30s with a nice sub (not Polk), maybe a Scamp or 2 from Tweak City Audio (available around Labor Day) for $220 shipped (discounts on multiples).


The Onk htib like all their systems offers a decent entry level receiver with terribly compromised speaker/sub packages. The 908 is one of their best, but will get totally roasted by either the SVS package or Polks (the R series, let alone the Monitors) with a decent sub. Do they sound good at first blush? Sure...especially with first time HT owners. If you do any sort of comparison or critical listening, you'll soon see where it falls short (music) and like many of us here, you'll be swapping out components as soon as budget allows.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbrowdy* /forum/post/14076254
> 
> 
> 
> PS - Ron, I still have your shirts!



D, long time no hear? Still in Foster City? Hope everything is going well, but keep the damn shirts







.


Hope everything is going well.


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14077573
> 
> 
> No discounts on SVS, just B stock. It's listed on their page along with disclosure (sometimes minor flaws), but usually a return or overstock. Usually about a 10% discount, sometimes a bit more.
> 
> 
> Polkdirect will be around for awhile and I think the Monitors will be a staple, so I doubt if you'll have trouble filling out a system. The Monitors feature the signature Polk sound, wide and airy midrange, tight bass, detailed tweets...however, IMO (and I'm a Polk lover) the tweeters are a tad rough, there can be sibilance, depending on your setup. It's not a huge problem, I lived with it with the Rs and even the RTis suffered a bit. They are a great value and if you prefer a floorstander...I'd go with M60s, a CS2 and M30s with a nice sub (not Polk), maybe a Scamp or 2 from Tweak City Audio (available around Labor Day) for $220 shipped (discounts on multiples).
> 
> 
> The Onk htib like all their systems offers a decent entry level receiver with terribly compromised speaker/sub packages. The 908 is one of their best, but will get totally roasted by either the SVS package or Polks (the R series, let alone the Monitors) with a decent sub. Do they sound good at first blush? Sure...especially with first time HT owners. If you do any sort of comparison or critical listening, you'll soon see where it falls short (music) and like many of us here, you'll be swapping out components as soon as budget allows.



The 908 is what got me thinking about separates in the first place. It seemed to sound so much better than every other HTIB I'd heard. Had a flash back to the old days " you can do better", "there are compromises in all boxes"....

Still leaning very hard to the SVS set up but do you have an opinion on the HSU VT-12 series? How do they compare? Ran across some glowing reviews last night and some that said music was muddy.

Thanks again!


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14079205
> 
> 
> The 908 is what got me thinking about separates in the first place. It seemed to sound so much better than every other HTIB I'd heard. Had a flash back to the old days " you can do better", "there are compromises in all boxes"....
> 
> Still leaning very hard to the SVS set up but do you have an opinion on the HSU VT-12 series? How do they compare? Ran across some glowing reviews last night and some that said music was muddy.
> 
> Thanks again!



That's the sat system isn't it? I think it's 4 sats with a freq response down to 200hz hooked into a center with a tricky crossover to make all the speakers cross at 80hz to blend with their STF 1 or 2. It's been awhile since I've read about it. Anyway, Hsu makes great subs and I hear their books are decent, not stellar, but I'm just not a sat guy.


If budget is the issue and you can wait awhile, then check out Tweak City Audio. Just opening it's doors, but the owner is a well respected audio guy, Craig Chase, aka craigsub. His first products are going to be budget offerings designed by a couple of very talented speaker and sub guys, Danny Ritchie and Mark Seaton (respectively). The speakers, called WAF 1s will be offered in pairs and as a 5 lot (no center). The sub will be called the Scamp and from the early reviews, it's going to set the budget market on it's ass, asking "How is he doing it". I've had many conversations with Craig about these offerings. They will be basic black boxes, but offer insane value for the price.


The site is set to launch, but is still under construction. You can find out about TCA products on his open forum...

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/...isplay.php?f=1 


The first Scamps and WAF-1s will start arriving around Labor Day. I'm told there will be some interesting package deals including an AVR and DVD/CD player as well.


It's a bit early to start touting these guys, but at least you should be aware of them. I'm sure they are going to get alot of airplay here and on other forums when the rubber meets the road.


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14081240
> 
> 
> That's the sat system isn't it? I think it's 4 sats with a freq response down to 200hz hooked into a center with a tricky crossover to make all the speakers cross at 80hz to blend with their STF 1 or 2. It's been awhile since I've read about it. Anyway, Hsu makes great subs and I hear their books are decent, not stellar, but I'm just not a sat guy.
> 
> 
> If budget is the issue and you can wait awhile, then check out Tweak City Audio. Just opening it's doors, but the owner is a well respected audio guy, Craig Chase, aka craigsub. His first products are going to be budget offerings designed by a couple of very talented speaker and sub guys, Danny Ritchie and Mark Seaton (respectively). The speakers, called WAF 1s will be offered in pairs and as a 5 lot (no center). The sub will be called the Scamp and from the early reviews, it's going to set the budget market on it's ass, asking "How is he doing it". I've had many conversations with Craig about these offerings. They will be basic black boxes, but offer insane value for the price.
> 
> 
> The site is set to launch, but is still under construction. You can find out about TCA products on his open forum...
> 
> http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/...isplay.php?f=1
> 
> 
> The first Scamps and WAF-1s will start arriving around Labor Day. I'm told there will be some interesting package deals including an AVR and DVD/CD player as well.
> 
> 
> It's a bit early to start touting these guys, but at least you should be aware of them. I'm sure they are going to get alot of airplay here and on other forums when the rubber meets the road.



Ron, yes money is an issue, at least lately. Spare you most of the sob story but been hit with quite alot the last few years (family illness, deaths, hurricanes, power surges)....

I have trouble spending money on myself these days. Never know what's coming next.


Looks like what I want is going to cost me about twice as much I as was hoping to spend. Found good deals and what looks like good quality at budget prices. Just learning I can't get the flexibility and reasonable quality I want for any less.


Can I, yes, just having a hard time pulling the trigger.


Need to replace DVD players, VCR's the whole stereo/surround system the whole nine yards. Already bought the TV's not much else.


Got any suggestions on recievers or DVD/VCR combinations?


By the way Tweak City is a great story. Gear sounds good but might eventually buy something from this guy just on principle alone. May be labor day before I give myself permission to spend the money anyway. SVS may have some stock by then too...


----------



## gus738

what you mean piercingly bright? im not that educated when it comes to audio but i tend to like something that sounds loud crips and clear well pretty much i assume this says best speakers? as far as mixing them this is in regard of what i just said, when i went to magnolia bestbuy several times i would try to check best floor stand best center etc and i would always find that the best fronts dont match the best center from the same brand, am i doing wrong? and i understand that speakers are not or should not be replaced as frequent as a tv in terms of inprovement which is way i wanted to know whats a very great/best setup? since i think i would keep it for a while. also i come from


owning a onkyo txsr600 with the stock skx series speakers (x meaning the type of speaker like skc for center etc) then i went to infinity beta 50 floor stands and for some reason once im putting a loud vol when listing to a consernt music movie video they sound werid....


help







thanks in advance oh like i said space is not an issue or in wall or book shelf or floor stand dont care as long as its performance.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14077337
> 
> 
> Yes, it's SVS. I'm not familiar with the Klipsch lower lines. It's a step up from the entry level Klipsh Synergy line on BBs floor. If the RF is the Magnolia line, then it's a matter of taste. Klipsch can be piercingly bright, but some love them. The SVS package is a neutral speaker, quite detailed for small books and made to go with their sub. The SBS 5.1 package is a wonderful entry level HT system. If you want a better music first system, the SCS L/C/R option is the way to go.
> 
> 
> Mixing Klipsch and Deftech...eehhh, I wouldn't...apples and oranges in sound signature.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14087630
> 
> 
> what you mean piercingly bright? im not that educated when it comes to audio but i tend to like something that sounds loud crips and clear well pretty much i assume this says best speakers? as far as mixing them this is in regard of what i just said, when i went to magnolia bestbuy several times i would try to check best floor stand best center etc and i would always find that the best fronts dont match the best center from the same brand, am i doing wrong? and i understand that speakers are not or should not be replaced as frequent as a tv in terms of inprovement which is way i wanted to know whats a very great/best setup? since i think i would keep it for a while. also i come from
> 
> 
> owning a onkyo txsr600 with the stock skx series speakers (x meaning the type of speaker like skc for center etc) then i went to infinity beta 50 floor stands and for some reason once im putting a loud vol when listing to a consernt music movie video they sound werid....
> 
> 
> help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance oh like i said space is not an issue or in wall or book shelf or floor stand dont care as long as its performance.



It's usually best to be timbre matched, at least in the front, left, center and right speakers, so that panning effects are seamless. However, some folks go with different centers, the best largest or smallest (room dependent) centers they can afford and are quite happy.


Klipsch speakers are very efficient and will play quite loud and crisp. They feature horn tweeters that some find a bit much when you factor in room reflections. There are lovers and haters. They may be perfect for you, though.


If the Beta 40s sound weird it's either your room, setup or they are distorting. They should play loud, but if you're really cranking, your AVR may be the culprit...you may be clipping. When you run out of power and the source still calls for peaks, your AVR can't supply it and it cuts off the top and bottom of the wave...clipping...this can damage both the speakers and the AVR, not good. Moderate clipping sounds like distortion, you lose clarity, imaging breaks up, "it sounds weird". Hard clipping usually results in the speakers smoking, blown tweeters, frozen drivers. and the AVR driven into protection. If they sound great at moderate volume and gets worse when you turn it up, then I'd be careful. If they always sound bad, then those speakers aren't for you.


If you're shopping at Mag and like the Klipsch, then give them a try...or the Deftechs. I think you'll like both better than the Infinitys.


Getting back to the SVS speakers. The Klipsch will play much louder and crisper. They (the SVS) are easily driven by most AVRs, but are on the warm side of neutral and not nearly as efficient...meaning they play at 86db with 1 watt at 1 meter. I think those Klipsch play 102dbs with 1 watt at 1 meter. I prefer a warmer sound and the Klipsch would eventually drive me out of the room. As I said, you either love them or hate them, but you got to respect them







.


----------



## wyldelee

Hi Folks,

I have been lurking and reading for a while now so I thought I would ask your advice.

I live in a condo. My Living room is 16x12 and is open to the dining area on one side. TV is a Samsung 4671.


I was originally concerned about not disturbing the neighbors too much so I was going to buy a sat system like the Athena Micra, but now those are gone.


The more I thought about it the more I was thinking I might be better off to get a really good set of fronts, (maybe add a center), and a good sub and forego the rear surrounds till I am out of this condo?


I would like something that also sounds great with music and doesn't require pushing the volume too high to sound it's best?

Any suggestions would be welcomed.

thanks,

Lee


----------



## fshagan

I was able to find a good deal on a Velodyne VX10 sub from ListenUp.com (a refurbished with 2 year factory warranty for $149, free shipping). I'll be pairing it with my budget system I've been piecing together:
Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver ($100 shipped from ClubOnkyo)
Polk R-150 bookshelves ($49 a pair from Frys.com, about $70 shipped with tax)
Polk CSR-1 center speaker ($79 or so on sale at Frys.com)


I'm very happy with the "HTiB Alternative" system so far but wanted a little more bass than I'm getting out the R-150. The system is used about 70% for music and 30% for movies, and we don't like thumping, pounding bass (we're old now).


I know the VX10 is not a great sub, but I'm hoping that I can get richer sound on the low end by setting the crossover high enough ... 100 mhz?


----------



## Tightbudget

Am looking to buy a subwoofer and had almost frozen on Velo VX-10 - $169, Thats when I saw the BIC America 12 In. 430-Watt Powered Down-Firing for $189. Now am confused which one to go for ..

I know both the names are well regarded , and VX-10 is been used by lots of them out here.

Specs

BIC America 12 In

Design: Down-Firing, long-throw 12" subwoofer, & tuned "Venturi" vent.

Power handling: Amplifier Power - 200 Watts (430 peak)

High power PDC amplifier

23–180Hz variable crossover

Speaker level and RCA inputs

MFG Model # : V-1220


Velo VX-10

Amplifier Power: 150 Watts (Dynamic), 100 Watts (RMS Power)

Driver: 10" Forward Firing (8.2" Piston Diameter), Coated Fiber Cone with an Inverted Dust Cap, 2" Voice Coil

117 Volt

40 Oz. Magnet

2" Maximum Excursion

Frequency Response: 36-120 Hz +/-3dB

Crossover: Variable from 50-200 Hz


One is a 12inch and the other is a 10inch , the frequency response is different in both..


My current setup is Denon avr 687 with R50's as my fronts and R150 as rear..


Pls give me your suggestions , I dont want to pay more than $200 on a subwoofer.. I like to have nice deep bass..


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/14100255
> 
> 
> Am looking to buy a subwoofer and had almost frozen on Velo VX-10 - $169, Thats when I saw the BIC America 12 In. 430-Watt Powered Down-Firing for $189. Now am confused which one to go for ..
> 
> I know both the names are well regarded , and VX-10 is been used by lots of them out here.
> 
> Specs
> 
> BIC America 12 In
> 
> Design: Down-Firing, long-throw 12" subwoofer, & tuned "Venturi" vent.
> 
> Power handling: Amplifier Power - 200 Watts (430 peak)
> 
> High power PDC amplifier
> 
> 23-180Hz variable crossover
> 
> Speaker level and RCA inputs
> 
> MFG Model # : V-1220
> 
> 
> Velo VX-10
> 
> Amplifier Power: 150 Watts (Dynamic), 100 Watts (RMS Power)
> 
> Driver: 10" Forward Firing (8.2" Piston Diameter), Coated Fiber Cone with an Inverted Dust Cap, 2" Voice Coil
> 
> 117 Volt
> 
> 40 Oz. Magnet
> 
> 2" Maximum Excursion
> 
> Frequency Response: 36-120 Hz +/-3dB
> 
> Crossover: Variable from 50-200 Hz
> 
> 
> One is a 12inch and the other is a 10inch , the frequency response is different in both..
> 
> 
> My current setup is Denon avr 687 with R50's as my fronts and R150 as rear..
> 
> 
> Pls give me your suggestions , I dont want to pay more than $200 on a subwoofer.. I like to have nice deep bass..



Just looking at the specs, if they are true, the BIC would be better for movies and other sources of really low bass (it goes down to 23 Hz as opposed to the 36 Hz of the Velodyne). I don't know how the units compare, though, as I gather that the published specs are done by the manufacturers, so some "puffery" can be expected. I checked several consumer review sources for the Velodyne (such as Amazon.com and epinions.com) and the buyers generally like them after upgrading from their HTiB subs.


My VX-10 just shipped (I bought a refurbished one for $149 shipped from ListenUp.com). I had to fit it into an overall *very small* budget for my stereo system, and a limited amount of floor space I can fit it in for the WAF ("wife acceptance factor"). I'm hoping the Velodyne does well with music (I'm not a fan of overpowering bass in movies; I don't need the couch shaking to clue me in that the fireball on screen is an explosion.)


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/14098993
> 
> 
> I was able to find a good deal on a Velodyne VX10 sub from ListenUp.com (a refurbished with 2 year factory warranty for $149, free shipping). I'll be pairing it with my budget system I've been piecing together:
> Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver ($100 shipped from ClubOnkyo)
> Polk R-150 bookshelves ($49 a pair from Frys.com, about $70 shipped with tax)
> Polk CSR-1 center speaker ($79 or so on sale at Frys.com)
> 
> 
> I'm very happy with the "HTiB Alternative" system so far but wanted a little more bass than I'm getting out the R-150. The system is used about 70% for music and 30% for movies, and we don't like thumping, pounding bass (we're old now).
> 
> 
> I know the VX10 is not a great sub, but I'm hoping that I can get richer sound on the low end by setting the crossover high enough ... 100 mhz?



When did you get the R150's from Fry's and why was it $70 out the door from them?


Actually I went to frys.com and they no longer list the Polk R150s.


bytor99999


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/14103345
> 
> 
> When did you get the R150's from Fry's and why was it $70 out the door from them?
> 
> 
> Actually I went to frys.com and they no longer list the Polk R150s.
> 
> 
> bytor99999



The Polk Audio CSR was on sale for $79.99 on April 25 when I purchased it from frys.com, and the price after tax and shipping was $104.72. I was looking for it after having bought the Polk R150 for $49 a pair from frys.com a couple of months earlier, but I can't remember what the tax and shipping came to on that order. In both cases, the in-store price was much higher ($179 for the CSR and I've forgotten how much the R150s were in the store).


Keep checking on the "Polk Audio R150"; they go in and out of stock there.


----------



## Ranelar

Any opinions on the Boston Acoustic MCS130 paired with an Onkyo 606 for a small apartment, 50% gaming (PS3), 30% movies, 15% sports, 5% music, sub $1000 budget? I got the 606 for $387 OTD and the MCS130 for $536 OTD. I'm mostly interested on thoughts about the MCS130 because while I've only really found good reviews, they are not very detailed and I'm not sure they're written by people who really know anything about audio (I certainly don't know). Thanks a lot.


----------



## Tightbudget




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fshagan* /forum/post/14101065
> 
> 
> Just looking at the specs, if they are true, the BIC would be better for movies and other sources of really low bass (it goes down to 23 Hz as opposed to the 36 Hz of the Velodyne). I don't know how the units compare, though, as I gather that the published specs are done by the manufacturers, so some "puffery" can be expected. I checked several consumer review sources for the Velodyne (such as Amazon.com and epinions.com) and the buyers generally like them after upgrading from their HTiB subs.
> 
> 
> My VX-10 just shipped (I bought a refurbished one for $149 shipped from ListenUp.com). I had to fit it into an overall *very small* budget for my stereo system, and a limited amount of floor space I can fit it in for the WAF ("wife acceptance factor"). I'm hoping the Velodyne does well with music (I'm not a fan of overpowering bass in movies; I don't need the couch shaking to clue me in that the fireball on screen is an explosion.)



Thanks for your response


----------



## rangaswamy

Recently bought a PZ85u , i live in an apartment so i was putting off the HT but now i am finding it hard to not have a decent HT system.


Im willing to go the extra mile and do all the research and buy individual components rather than go for the HTiB solution which might not suit all my needs.


First, what should i look for in a receiver? I have been looking at many of the onkyo receivers SR 605, SR 505, 705 and 805. Is there i can look at all the comparison between these receivers. I see that the 700 series has many more decoders than the 600 series. also there are some 575s and some 703s etc. Im very confused with the numbering.


Is there an equal alternative to ONKYO? Most people are very happy with Onkyo.


I plan to start out with a 2.1 system and add components every 3 months. I want to start off as close to 500 for my receiver wooofer and front speakers and then add as i go. I plan to add PS3 in 6 months time. Right now im using an upconverting DVD player.


HT system will be mostly used for movies and some music.

any help on what i should look for in a receiver would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Anand


----------



## rangaswamy

I found this on CNET.com. Im wondering what are the advantages of HDMI upconversion to 1080p ? Does that mean, the receiver will take video from a regular dvd and upconvert the picture and send it to the TV?

I dont care too much for that because 1) i have an up converting dvd player as well as i prefer letting the tv doing the up conversion. The 705 has 3 HDMI inputs, does that mean it can take 3 sources - PS3/Cable Box/ and say dvd player and pass the signal to the tv through one output?


Does it have HDMI out?


whats the difference between a multi EQ speaker calibration and 2EQ?




TX-SR505 ($380, now available)

7.1 A/V receiver, 75 watts per channel

2 HDMI inputs (video passthrough only; audio requires separate connection)

Audyssey 2EQ auto speaker calibration


TX-SR575 ($480, now available)

7.1 A/V receiver, 80 watts per channel

2 HDMI inputs (video pass-through only; audio requires separate connection)

Component video conversion (composite/S-video converted to component output)

Audyssey 2EQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready


TX-SR605 ($600, May 2007)

7.1 A/V receiver, 90 watts per channel

2 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI conversion of analog video

Onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

Faroudja DCDi video processing

Audyssey 2EQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready


TX-SR705 ($900, July 2007)

7.1 A/V receiver, 100 watts per channel

3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion

Onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

Faroudja DCDi video processing

THX Select2 Certified

Audyssey MultEQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready

Multiroom functionality for two zones


TX-SR805 ($1,100, May 2007)

7.1 A/V receiver, 130 watts per channel

3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion

Onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

Faroudja DCDi video processing

THX Select2 Certified

Audyssey MultEQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready

Multiroom functionality for three zones


TX-SR875 ($1,700, June 2007)

7.1 A/V receiver, 140 watts per channel

4 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion to 1080p

Onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

HQV Reon-VX Video processing

THX Ultra2 Certified

Audyssey MultEQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready

Multiroom functionality for three zones


TX-NR905 ($2,100, August 2007)

7.1 A/V receiver, 140 watts per channel

4 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion to 1080p

Onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

HQV Reon-VX Video processing

THX Ultra2 Certified

Audyssey MultEQ auto speaker calibration

XM- and Sirius-ready

Multiroom functionality for three zones

Networking capabilities for Internet radio and WMA files

HD Radio

USB input for MP3 players


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14119341
> 
> 
> First, what should i look for in a receiver? I have been looking at many of the onkyo receivers SR 605, SR 505, 705 and 805. Is there i can look at all the comparison between these receivers. I see that the 700 series has many more decoders than the 600 series. also there are some 575s and some 703s etc. Im very confused with the numbering.



Onkyo's site will have comparisons.


Basically the first of the three digit numbers are the series, and the last number tells you which version. So a 605 has more features and probably more power than a 505, but will also be more expensive. A 606 will be one version newer than a 605, and may also have a few newer features, but will otherwise be based on the older version.


Stuff like 575 will be between a 505 and 605 in terms of features/price.


Basically, the higher the number, the higher the price and the more you get.



> Quote:
> Is there an equal alternative to ONKYO? Most people are very happy with Onkyo.



Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Harmon-Kardon. They're all about on par with Onkyo and have very similar models.


Even some of the better Sonys aren't too bad.


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ranelar* /forum/post/14107125
> 
> 
> Any opinions on the Boston Acoustic MCS130 paired with an Onkyo 606 for a small apartment, 50% gaming (PS3), 30% movies, 15% sports, 5% music, sub $1000 budget? I got the 606 for $387 OTD and the MCS130 for $536 OTD. I'm mostly interested on thoughts about the MCS130 because while I've only really found good reviews, they are not very detailed and I'm not sure they're written by people who really know anything about audio (I certainly don't know). Thanks a lot.



I am still very new to this but the MCS130 set should work well for you. Auditioned a lot and for the money (on sale at CC), you would be hard pressed to do much better for HT. Not sure about the games. If there is a weakness in the set it is with music. Not quite enough bass on the fronts for me.

If you don't listen to that much music, don't see how you could go wrong with this set up.


----------



## falcon3045

Agree with Tupla. I am a newbie myself and have been exploring for two months. At this price point I would go with the one that has the best feature set for you.

I just bought the Denon AVR-888 yesterday on sale. Denon seems to be well thought of and it has a lot of stuff but one major point drove my decision. It has a phono hook-up. Most of what I looked at with phono hook-up would have cost me another $300-500. Figured that money was better spent on speakers for any of the other differences I could find.

The ONKs seem to have more features (bang for the buck) than a lot of them but Iwould recommend reading a lot on here and getting out to the stores for a little hands on before buying.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14140467
> 
> 
> Agree with Tupla. I am a newbie myself and have been exploring for two months. At this price point I would go with the one that has the best feature set for you.
> 
> I just bought the Denon AVR-888 yesterday on sale. Denon seems to be well thought of and it has a lot of stuff but one major point drove my decision. It has a phono hook-up. Most of what I looked at with phono hook-up would have cost me another $300-500. Figured that money was better spent on speakers for any of the other differences I could find.
> 
> The ONKs seem to have more features (bang for the buck) than a lot of them but Iwould recommend reading a lot on here and getting out to the stores for a little hands on before buying.



That Denon is a nice unit. I briefly had the 2307CI (I think it's the same unit as the 888) and remember it did have a phono stage. Good pickup. I thought it was wonderful for HT, but ultimately returned it when my replacement HK 245 came back to me. The HK was a better fit as a pre and I preferred it's SQ for music...by a lot. However, I'd owned 3 HKs over a 3 year period and had preconceived notions of what music should sound like in my space. I'm sure like most Denon customers you'll love the unit.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/14103345
> 
> 
> When did you get the R150's from Fry's and why was it $70 out the door from them?
> 
> 
> Actually I went to frys.com and they no longer list the Polk R150s.
> 
> 
> bytor99999



Amazon has a "blemished" pair of R150's; usually these are open box returns. Its at their clearance site at http://www.warehousedeals.com/Polk-A...B000MGNDHE.htm ... $58.56 plus free shipping. They may only have one pair left.


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14142177
> 
> 
> That Denon is a nice unit. I briefly had the 2307CI (I think it's the same unit as the 888) and remember it did have a phono stage. Good pickup. I thought it was wonderful for HT, but ultimately returned it when my replacement HK 245 came back to me. The HK was a better fit as a pre and I preferred it's SQ for music...by a lot. However, I'd owned 3 HKs over a 3 year period and had preconceived notions of what music should sound like in my space. I'm sure like most Denon customers you'll love the unit.



Thanks, good to see you back on here. Struggled with the decision a bit but about the only negative I could find on it was hard set-up and impossible manual. The price was a draw and I can listen to the 1,000 albums that have gathering dust for ten years... Had an HK unit years ago. Always thought it was very solid. Was having trouble matching a feature set to price point for some reason. Plus no full line local retailers...Most carry only one and it is almost always one of the lower end units.


On the speakers - Dug the old Advents out of the attic and hooked them up. Were sounding better than what was there a few months ago. Noticed they were a little light on the lower end. Popped the grills and low and behold, the foam suspension is gone from around the woofers on both. Pretty much dust.

Ever heard of spare parts for these dinosaurs or is it possible to "refoam" the drivers???

And if so, would you bother?


Even with the foam gone they seem to do better for music than any 5.1 I have heard. Driver on todays H/T sets (fronts) seem to small to give robust full range for two channel?


Got me thinking again (always dangerous), does it make sense to have a 5.1 system for H/T and a different set altogether for two channel??? Use the A+B switch?


Crazy to be thinking this way with the budget and space I have but you were right.

After 20+ years I am already getting a touch of the "bug" and I don't even have my first full H/T system together.

You know the possibilities, wasn't that always part of it????


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14145757
> 
> 
> Thanks, good to see you back on here. Struggled with the decision a bit but about the only negative I could find on it was hard set-up and impossible manual. The price was a draw and I can listen to the 1,000 albums that have gathering dust for ten years... Had an HK unit years ago. Always thought it was very solid. Was having trouble matching a feature set to price point for some reason. Plus no full line local retailers...Most carry only one and it is almost always one of the lower end units.
> 
> 
> On the speakers - Dug the old Advents out of the attic and hooked them up. Were sounding better than what was there a few months ago. Noticed they were a little light on the lower end. Popped the grills and low and behold, the foam suspension is gone from around the woofers on both. Pretty much dust.
> 
> Ever heard of spare parts for these dinosaurs or is it possible to "refoam" the drivers???
> 
> And if so, would you bother?
> 
> 
> Even with the foam gone they seem to do better for music than any 5.1 I have heard. Driver on todays H/T sets (fronts) seem to small to give robust full range for two channel?
> 
> 
> Got me thinking again (always dangerous), does it make sense to have a 5.1 system for H/T and a different set altogether for two channel??? Use the A+B switch?
> 
> 
> Crazy to be thinking this way with the budget and space I have but you were right.
> 
> After 20+ years I am already getting a touch of the "bug" and I don't even have my first full H/T system together.
> 
> You know the possibilities, wasn't that always part of it????



You can get them refoamed, but I can't point you where. There are lots of vintage speakers from the stereo years that I find more pleasing than most of the HT packages. You can find some great bargains too. I've not heard the Advents, but Polk Monitor 7s and 10s from the late 70s and early 80s are still sought after as being some of their best performing musical speakers they ever made. Many of us have built HT setups or 2 channel rigs for pennies on the dollar with vintage stuff (in my case Polk stuff)...another bonus...butyl rubber surrounds that don't rot







. You might want to look into it







.


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Temple* /forum/post/14150209
> 
> 
> You can get them refoamed, but I can't point you where. There are lots of vintage speakers from the stereo years that I find more pleasing than most of the HT packages. You can find some great bargains too. I've not heard the Advents, but Polk Monitor 7s and 10s from the late 70s and early 80s are still sought after as being some of their best performing musical speakers they ever made. Many of us have built HT setups or 2 channel rigs for pennies on the dollar with vintage stuff (in my case Polk stuff)...another bonus...butyl rubber surrounds that don't rot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You might want to look into it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



The old Advents were special. Must have been, I kept them in the attic for over ten years. COuldn't seem to part with them.

They have been called "one of the most accurate loudspeakers around" and as good as speakers costing ten times as much...

They were two ways, exceptional with the midrange and lower end. Clean and crisp bass. Amazing clarity on the tweeters but had a tendency to fall off at the top at higher volumes or in "clipping" situations. They had a good field too (think they call it off angle listening today).

They are also a large part of why I can't seem to find anything I'm satisfied with today. At least in 5.1 set up. In their time, they truly were one of the best bargains in audio. I had more expensive that I didn't like as much.

On the refoaming, turns out there is a semi-famous speaker repair shop in the neighborhood. Take me about an hour and fifteen to get there if the traffic is good. Guy at work told me about them. Seems they get business from all over the world. He had them refoam his mother's Advents a couple of years ago (feeling old?, you bet). They even have DIY foam kits but said the Advent have some other design issues that make them hard to do.

Not sure about the term accurate these days. Accurate means reproducing as exactly as possible. Even bad recordings. The old "Stereo Review" magazine used to review music for the quality and engineering of the recording as well as the artist's performance. It may be why I am "spoiled" and searching for that elusive absolute bargain (SVS type). Been hearing the recordings of today can't measure up to some of the quality of the old days. Engineers playing around too much???


----------



## Damion83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tightbudget* /forum/post/14100255
> 
> 
> Am looking to buy a subwoofer and had almost frozen on Velo VX-10 - $169, Thats when I saw the BIC America 12 In. 430-Watt Powered Down-Firing for $189. Now am confused which one to go for ..
> 
> I know both the names are well regarded , and VX-10 is been used by lots of them out here.
> 
> Specs
> 
> BIC America 12 In
> 
> Design: Down-Firing, long-throw 12" subwoofer, & tuned "Venturi" vent.
> 
> Power handling: Amplifier Power - 200 Watts (430 peak)
> 
> High power PDC amplifier
> 
> 23–180Hz variable crossover
> 
> Speaker level and RCA inputs
> 
> MFG Model # : V-1220
> 
> 
> Velo VX-10
> 
> Amplifier Power: 150 Watts (Dynamic), 100 Watts (RMS Power)
> 
> Driver: 10" Forward Firing (8.2" Piston Diameter), Coated Fiber Cone with an Inverted Dust Cap, 2" Voice Coil
> 
> 117 Volt
> 
> 40 Oz. Magnet
> 
> 2" Maximum Excursion
> 
> Frequency Response: 36-120 Hz +/-3dB
> 
> Crossover: Variable from 50-200 Hz
> 
> 
> One is a 12inch and the other is a 10inch , the frequency response is different in both..
> 
> 
> My current setup is Denon avr 687 with R50's as my fronts and R150 as rear..
> 
> 
> Pls give me your suggestions , I dont want to pay more than $200 on a subwoofer.. I like to have nice deep bass..



I to posed this question when I was putting together my budget HT a few months back. Most replies were the that the Velo is of higher quality than the Bic America series (though of course not the $250 BIC-100's on ebay).


I ended getting the Velo and couldn't be happier, though my room is only about 13x17x7.5. It has plenty of bass in movies and also sounds well with 5.1 music/concert DVD's. It's matte black finish is much nicer than the fake wood of the Bic America, which is pretty much the same as what's on the Polk Monitor and R-series speakers. The driver also looks well built. While it might not play as low as a 12" sub, it still rocks the room in bass scenes (War of the Worlds, The Incredibles, Pod race scene from SW Episode 1, etc.).


----------



## albiechaser

Any advice appreciated on this - I have a $1000 budget (can add later) and a 20'X15' basement. I was thinking of the Onkyo HT SP908 system - If JNR ever gets some stock it is round $850 shipped. Some of you may know this system it is the TX-SR605 recver w/ speakers and an upconvert DVD.


Could I get better speakers if I built this w/ a reciever and speakers over time? I don't really need the DVD - as I will be getting a blue ray or PS3 soon.


Soo- where do I begin? I like ONKYO and DENON (a former sony 2 channel guy) but am open to suggestions -


What about a Onkyo TX SR606 w/ Polk RM6750 or RM705 sets? Or I could just get a better sub and center and add satellites over time (need help on selecting subs and center speakers!).


I have another thread in speakers as to what to do w/ my blown epicure model 5 spkrs and 5yr old Bose Acoustimass 5 series III's. The Bose is a great sub w/ two satellites but it does not seem to work well w/ new 6.1 or 7.1 recievers. The Epicures just got old and abused in college... ahhh wasted years







.


Any general advice? Forgive me if I am covering too much ground in one post - I am a newbie!


THx


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *falcon3045* /forum/post/14153753
> 
> 
> The old Advents were special. Must have been, I kept them in the attic for over ten years. COuldn't seem to part with them.
> 
> They have been called "one of the most accurate loudspeakers around" and as good as speakers costing ten times as much...
> 
> They were two ways, exceptional with the midrange and lower end. Clean and crisp bass. Amazing clarity on the tweeters but had a tendency to fall off at the top at higher volumes or in "clipping" situations. They had a good field too (think they call it off angle listening today).
> 
> They are also a large part of why I can't seem to find anything I'm satisfied with today. At least in 5.1 set up. In their time, they truly were one of the best bargains in audio. I had more expensive that I didn't like as much.
> 
> On the refoaming, turns out there is a semi-famous speaker repair shop in the neighborhood. Take me about an hour and fifteen to get there if the traffic is good. Guy at work told me about them. Seems they get business from all over the world. He had them refoam his mother's Advents a couple of years ago (feeling old?, you bet). They even have DIY foam kits but said the Advent have some other design issues that make them hard to do.
> 
> Not sure about the term accurate these days. Accurate means reproducing as exactly as possible. Even bad recordings. The old "Stereo Review" magazine used to review music for the quality and engineering of the recording as well as the artist's performance. It may be why I am "spoiled" and searching for that elusive absolute bargain (SVS type). Been hearing the recordings of today can't measure up to some of the quality of the old days. Engineers playing around too much???



Just saw some Advent Legacys today on Craigslist for $100. The guy selling them describes them like you do. They look nice.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ele/732796433.html 
http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos...er_collage.jpg 


and here's some others...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/728066158.html 
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ele/725449072.html 
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/725038357.html 


Looks like they're all over the place with pricing ;^)


Yes, modern recordings seem to be recorded hot and compressed...not much dynamic range and nothing like I remember my old vinyl sitting in a trunk used to sound like. There are some exceptions and some of the high rez stuff, DVD A and SACD is wonderful. I recently picked up a couple of 70s albums on CD that are hard to find. Chris Squire " A Fish Out of Water" and Patrick Moraz "I"...very poor and yet I remember the vinyl albums being remarkable. Oh well, there's still some great stuff out there, you just need to get a review prior to buying. It's a shame what they did to the re-mastered Genesis catalog released last year.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *albiechaser* /forum/post/14164475
> 
> 
> Any advice appreciated on this - I have a $1000 budget (can add later) and a 20'X15' basement. I was thinking of the Onkyo HT SP908 system - If JNR ever gets some stock it is round $850 shipped. Some of you may know this system it is the TX-SR605 recver w/ speakers and an upconvert DVD.
> 
> 
> Could I get better speakers if I built this w/ a reciever and speakers over time? I don't really need the DVD - as I will be getting a blue ray or PS3 soon.
> 
> 
> Soo- where do I begin? I like ONKYO and DENON (a former sony 2 channel guy) but am open to suggestions -
> 
> 
> What about a Onkyo TX SR606 w/ Polk RM6750 or RM705 sets? Or I could just get a better sub and center and add satellites over time (need help on selecting subs and center speakers!).
> 
> 
> I have another thread in speakers as to what to do w/ my blown epicure model 5 spkrs and 5yr old Bose Acoustimass 5 series III's. The Bose is a great sub w/ two satellites but it does not seem to work well w/ new 6.1 or 7.1 recievers. The Epicures just got old and abused in college... ahhh wasted years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Any general advice? Forgive me if I am covering too much ground in one post - I am a newbie!
> 
> 
> THx



Since the Onkyo 606 is under $400 shipped now I think you could easily spend $600 to get better speakers and a sub than what comes with the 908 system. Do you need satellite speakers? Will bookshelfs do? Towers?


----------



## falcon3045




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/14166976
> 
> 
> Since the Onkyo 606 is under $400 shipped now I think you could easily spend $600 to get better speakers and a sub than what comes with the 908 system. Do you need satellite speakers? Will bookshelfs do? Towers?



I am still very new at this so you should weigh my opinions accordingly.

The ONK 908 is the best sounding HTIB I have heard. Auditioned about 15 different systems ranging in price up to that one. It was by far the best I came across.


Having said that, I decided to go the separates way. Thinking was receiver in the $400-500 range range and speakers in the $800-1000 range. Cost may wind up a little more but should come out better (sound wise) in the long run. Got the Denon AVR-888 receiver last week. Still leaning hard to SVS 5.1 setup but they are out of stock and I am running out of patience....


----------



## albiechaser

OK - this is great - allready have some ideas - my biggest drawback is that I live in the boonies and can't hear most of these spkrs. until I buy.


Specific questions:

$300-$450 for reciever

- Onkyo 606 or Denon or other ? What are the primary differences at that price point in terms of features and clean power? I do want HDMI switching and wil start as 5.1 and go to 7.1 once I get more speakers, pre outs and a powered/ind zone 2 are other key factors but I could pass on these.


$500 - $700 for speakers (wife would prefer front bookshelf but towers could pass w/ wall/ceiling mount side/rears):

- Should I strive for the same brand of speakers for center/front/side/rear or can I mix and match? I assume the sub can be any brand.

- I was going to buy a center, sub, and fronts now and use my Bose Acoustimass 5 series III as rears till more $ comes in - is this crazy?

- Based on this thread I was thinking:

Polk CS1 Center (I could go a bit bigger here!)

BIC H-100 or Cadence XSub 12 or SVS PB10 - sub

Polk bookshelf fronts - model? (do I loose much not going w/ the M50 or R300 towers that are mentioned here?)


I would really like to know current info on where to best acquire all this as well.


Finally - is there any street value to the bose unit that I could put toward new spkrs?


Thx again!


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *albiechaser* /forum/post/14172262
> 
> 
> - Onkyo 606 or Denon or other ? What are the primary differences at that price point in terms of features and clean power?



Maybe a few features would be the only difference. Onkyo, Denon, and the others are pretty competitive at each pricepoint. Just find the one that has what you want.



> Quote:
> - Should I strive for the same brand of speakers for center/front/side/rear or can I mix and match? I assume the sub can be any brand.



Fronts/center should match, rears should match each other. Fronts and rears don't have to match, although quite a few people do.



> Quote:
> Finally - is there any street value to the bose unit that I could put toward new spkrs?



Most likely. The general public does consider the Bose name as worth something, even if 99.99% of people here don't.


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *albiechaser* /forum/post/14172262
> 
> 
> 
> $500 - $700 for speakers (wife would prefer front bookshelf but towers could pass w/ wall/ceiling mount side/rears):
> 
> - Should I strive for the same brand of speakers for center/front/side/rear or can I mix and match? I assume the sub can be any brand.
> 
> - I was going to buy a center, sub, and fronts now and use my Bose Acoustimass 5 series III as rears till more $ comes in - is this crazy?
> 
> - Based on this thread I was thinking:
> 
> Polk CS1 Center (I could go a bit bigger here!)
> 
> BIC H-100 or Cadence XSub 12 or SVS PB10 - sub
> 
> Polk bookshelf fronts - model? (do I loose much not going w/ the M50 or R300 towers that are mentioned here?)
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Finally - is there any street value to the bose unit that I could put toward new spkrs?



As a 2-ch guy I think you could appreciate the value of towers, but really only when you get to Monitor 60 level or so. Don't bother with R300's. Monitor 50 are great being relatively compact for a tower, but don't really extend much beyond Monitor 40 bookshelves' output, which are quite deep for bookshelves.


Since you are already looking to get a decent sub, try a CS1 center with a pair of compact Monitor 30s (to satisfy WAF), which can make great surrounds should you decide to go larger for the fronts. If you don't really like the sound, you can turn them around quickly with little loss - the Monitor line is already heavily discounted these days. If you don't mind refurbished - 'polkdirect' on 'Bay can stretch your budget to include towers, otherwise go to any PolkAudio authorized (including online) store for the best deal.


Used Bose definitely has resale value - thank their marketing machine for that.


----------



## rangaswamy

Whats the performance difference between bookshelf vs towerspeakers.

Tower speakers are bigger and are occupy more space.


Whats the performance difference between the two?


Thanks


Anand


----------



## vinipux77

This is an oversimplification, but in general bookshelves play cleaner and image better than comparable towers, but at the same time cannot play as low or as loud. Bookshelves will be less expensive, but need stands - and good ones to sound their best.


----------



## whodat1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Athens88* /forum/post/14067944
> 
> 
> My understanding is the CSR was designed to compliment the R line of Polk products, but would it be unwise to couple the CS1 with R series speakers?



I'm new here and I'm trying to put together a HT system. I've spent the entire morning reading this thread (Great Info Guys!) and had just came to ask myself this question when I saw Athens88 post. I was hoping someone would answer it, so I am bumping it for that reason.


I've seen a number of posts saying the CS1 is made to go with the Monitor series and another number matching it up with the R50 speakers. I'd like to hear some people weigh in on this please.


----------



## buzzy_

FYI, 250' of 12 gauge wire for $52 shipped from a good vendor: link


----------



## rangaswamy

I am trying to get the Harman Kardon CP 65 from Frys, They recently discontinued this model and now are clearing it for 499. Unfortunately they sol everything except their demo model. I am guessing i can get another 20% off on the demo model. I know this is a great price, i plan to sell the receiver and the dvd player and add a Blue ray player and probably an ONKYO 705.


Any ideas / experiences about the open box/ demo model? is this a good idea?


Anand


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14198909
> 
> 
> I am trying to get the Harman Kardon CP 65 from Frys, They recently discontinued this model and now are clearing it for 499. Unfortunately they sol everything except their demo model. I am guessing i can get another 20% off on the demo model. I know this is a great price, i plan to sell the receiver and the dvd player and add a Blue ray player and probably an ONKYO 705.
> 
> 
> Any ideas / experiences about the open box/ demo model? is this a good idea?
> 
> 
> Anand



The AVR is the best part of that system and will sound better than the 705 IMO. However, it's not HDMI 1.3 compliant, so you'd need to use the analog connections for the advanced BD codecs (I do with my 245). HK receivers feature great amp sections with an open and warmer sound. Don't be put off by the power ratings. The 347 is a beefy performer.


The HK sat speaker package is probably very similar to JBL offerings (same company). Decent, but I'm not a fan of sat speakers. Just too many compromises in sound quality in the midrange that bookshelves or floorstanders offer.


The price is excellent. You decide







.


----------



## whodat1

I have purchased some Polk R50's for my front speakers and I'm trying to decide on rear speakers. A lot of folks here have good things to say about the R15/R150, but these seem to need a shelf to place them on. I was looking at the Polk RM7 or RM8, as these are meant to mount on a stand (which is what I presently have at the rear/sides of the sofa). Would these speakers make a good match eith the R50? Or are they a bit too small?


----------



## afrogt

For most applications the rear speakers provide background noise and ambience, not the main dialog so yes they'll be fine. The R15/R150 can be stand mounted also.


----------



## gus738

hey guys well quick question i own the infinity beta floor stand tower speakers (50 series) and i have no center channel so i would like to know should i match the tower beta 50 to the beta c360 center channel?


the infinity beta c360 cost $200 (no tax no ship charge) can i do better for the same price for a center channel?


or is it a bad call to get a diffrent center channel that does not match the front left and front right?

http://www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com/catalog/14/5950/ 


also for rear speakers are they important? if so do i get the es250 or the bookself infinity beta 20' and why the diffrence between both?


i currently have the onkyo rear and a panasonic rear


----------



## whodat1

I'd like to thank the many contributors to this thread for the wealth of info it has supplied me. I was looking to put together a HT to replace my failing entry level Sony HTIB and this thread gave me the info to make an informed choice when I would go into stores and listen to combinations of speakers & receivers. I feel that I've made a decent choice of components without breaking the bank. Including tax & shipping, I'm at $826 and only need the rear/surround speakers at this point, so it looks like I'll come in under $1000... Which was my goal. So again THANK YOU ALL!


For my $826, so far I've got:

Onkyo TX-SR605

2 Polk R50 front speakers

Polk CS1 center speaker

Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer


----------



## gus738

let me know how is the onkyo 605







i have a txsr600 in one room and the 701 in my living room. ( how many watts per channel? and how many chhanels? does it run?)


also the vx-10 on what line up does that run? i think i have a CHT (classic home theather) series....


----------



## I WANT TO LEARN

I did not settle for an all-in-one box solution full of various design compromises. I found a system that was rated #1 by Consumer Reports and various other magazines and internet sites by both experts and customers. I am very happy with my Onkyo and for the price you get an excellent system made by a good company that knows what they are doing when it comes to electronics. It can't be beat for twice the price. I have heard other systems that are much more expensive and to the average person they do not sound any better. HTIB's sell in the millions every year and there must be a reason for that.


----------



## mfromb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I WANT TO LEARN* /forum/post/14215020
> 
> 
> It can't be beat for twice the price. I have heard other systems that are much more expensive and to the average person they do not sound any better. HTIB's sell in the millions every year and there must be a reason for that.



Since when did this become the Alternatives to the HTIB Alternatives thread?!?


Good on you, you like your HTIB. I think there is a forum/thread for that. ;-)


I found the HTIB Alternative route to be the more cost-effective method of gaining some quality, while remaining at a budget price. Onkyo was one of the few vendors I was considering for budget-minded HTIB.. and ended up being the only one, after a short while of shopping and listening. In the end, I opted out of the HTIB in favor of marrying my own choice for speakers and sub (but, still used an Onkyo receiver), ending up still firmly in my budget and in the same neighborhood of the Onkyo's I was looking at and listening to, and managed to improve on the overall listening experience for my troubles.


Welcome to the HTIB "Alternatives" thread. 


mark


----------



## grap3

I was pretty much set on buying a HTIB system until I read some bad reviews on Amazon, here and took a look at this thread. Since then I have bought an Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and I'm looking for some speaker and a sub recommendations.


I don't have much cash which is why I bought the budget receiver but I'm pretty happy with TrueHD and all the connections (the latter being my biggest gripe with HTIB systems). I'm going to be buying the components I need over the course of the rest of the year and would not like to spend more than $1,000 (not including the receiver I already bought). Of course if there's some things that might just slightly be above that limit I'd consider it. I mean after all these are all just suggestions on things to consider. Nothing's set in stone.


My main uses would be gaming and movies with music and tv as a close second.


The room in question is about 9' wide, 13/14' long and 7.5' tall with tv mounted on the wall. My primary concern right now is the rear speakers. Apparently you're supposed to put them behind you quite a bit, is that right? Well it's a small room with a big 52" tv (Samsung LN52A750) and the couch is right up against the wall. I'm thinking about getting 4 _Polk RC80i_s off of Amazon and putting them in the ceiling above the couch, behind the couch or a mix of the two. Any thoughts or suggestions on this huge shortcoming?


I've already got nice thick speaker wire running through the wall because if I don't put in-wall speakers I'm planning on making outlets so I don't have speaker wire running in plain sight.


My next concern is for a decent powered subwoofer. I've always wanted one. I want one that could really take advantage of the receiver but I know squat about subs. Any suggestions on this?


And the left, right and center channels are probably the least problematic in decision making because they don't really have any concerns that need to be addressed. I just want something simple looking but effective.


I'm moving up from some crappy 5.1 computer all-in-one box thing from '01 by Cambridge Soundworks so anything would really be an improvement. Haha.


I'd really appreciate any suggestions that you could throw my way. Thanks again. =)


Jesus I wrote way too much...


----------



## gus738

welcome grap3 so your saying you want 5.1 to a 7.1? (7.1 is true hd and all those newer audio codic) 5.1 6.1 is the regular stuff. also your willing to spend 1g on speakers and sub right?


also the front 3 speakers should match (left center right) and the ideal hight should be ear level and the rears level should be slight above ear level.


----------



## SaveMeJebus

well hello again folks. It seems like it was just last year when I prowled this thread and eventually settled on my home theater setup which I found to be quite lovely. In sum, ended up buying:


Onkyo TX-SR674 Receiver

Polk Rti6 Bookshelf speakers (pair)

Polk CSi3 Center speaker

Bic Acoustech H-100 subwoofer

Oppo DV-981HD dvd player



I enjoyed these thoroughly, and then awakened the fury of nature a couple weeks ago as a neighbor's tree decided to make a surprise visit into my family room:




















Well, it's a year later and it's back to square 1. Insurance company is paying to replace what was lost, so I'm like a kid in a candy store. Can't go overboard, as I have to replace like for like, but what's equivalent for what I had?


----------



## Tulpa

Ouch.


You can get the new 606 receiver, or maybe the 705 (they don't have any in between anymore.) If the sub limit is $250, then stick with the Bic Acoustech (or maybe the Scamp-10 when it comes out.) If you can fudge a little more, maybe an eD sub if they still have them on sale. Oppo 981 is still available.


Speakers I'm not sure about. Maybe run it by the speaker forum.


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/14236854
> 
> 
> well hello again folks. It seems like it was just last year when I prowled this thread and eventually settled on my home theater setup which I found to be quite lovely. In sum, ended up buying:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR674 Receiver
> 
> Polk Rti6 Bookshelf speakers (pair)
> 
> Polk CSi3 Center speaker
> 
> Bic Acoustech H-100 subwoofer
> 
> Oppo DV-981HD dvd player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it's a year later and it's back to square 1. Insurance company is paying to replace what was lost, so I'm like a kid in a candy store. Can't go overboard, as I have to replace like for like, but what's equivalent for what I had?



If your insurance company is prepared to offer MSRP replacement, then the Polk RTi A3s are an improvement over the 6s at the same price point and the cherry finish is excellent...same with the CsiA4. The Oppo 980 is slightly cheaper the the 981 and if you don't need the Faroudja upscaler, I think it's the better unit (better DACs). Tulpa's advice regarding subs is spot on...the Scamp has been tweaked to get similar performance to the SVS PB10 (this I was told in a private conversation). If true, then it will be a hell of a deal at $250 shipped.


----------



## grap3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14233962
> 
> 
> also your willing to spend 1g on speakers and sub right?
> 
> also the front 3 speakers should match (left center right) and the ideal hight should be ear level and the rears level should be slight above ear level.



Thanks for your response.


To sum up what I'm doing is putting together my own system for the first time ever. I have a receiver picked out and on its way, the Onkyo TX-SR606 in glorious silver, but I help picking out speakers and a sub.


----------



## gus738

savemejebus oouch that sucks, if you struggle with a certain limit i would focus first on the avr since an update one with new audio codic would help also would the wpc on a 7.1 or 5.1



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SaveMeJebus* /forum/post/14236854
> 
> 
> well hello again folks. It seems like it was just last year when I prowled this thread and eventually settled on my home theater setup which I found to be quite lovely. In sum, ended up buying:
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR674 Receiver
> 
> Polk Rti6 Bookshelf speakers (pair)
> 
> Polk CSi3 Center speaker
> 
> Bic Acoustech H-100 subwoofer
> 
> Oppo DV-981HD dvd player
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoyed these thoroughly, and then awakened the fury of nature a couple weeks ago as a neighbor's tree decided to make a surprise visit into my family room:
> 
> 
> ttp:// [URL='http://undergroundgarage.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10010/normal_5109895_4717ce1f38_b.jpg%5B/img']undergroundgarage.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10010/normal_5109895_4717ce1f38_b.jpg[/img[/URL] ]
> 
> [IMG]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/eek.gif
> 
> 
> Well, it's a year later and it's back to square 1. Insurance company is paying to replace what was lost, so I'm like a kid in a candy store. Can't go overboard, as I have to replace like for like, but what's equivalent for what I had?




grap3 first you gotta decide if you are going SD DVD 5.1 6.1 or BD HD movies which is 7.1 because in a 7.1 setup you got your front 3 your 4 rear and your sub, as where in a 6.1 you got your addtion of a rear channel which, i would go for a 7.1 setup that way you can futureproof it but that is your call.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grap3* /forum/post/14239068
> 
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> 
> To sum up what I'm doing is putting together my own system for the first time ever. I have a receiver picked out and on its way, the Onkyo TX-SR606 in glorious silver, but I help picking out speakers and a sub.


----------



## grap3

7.1 definately


----------



## rangaswamy

This may have been discussed before, but i wasnt able to find something substantial on a comparison of these two receivers. is one better than the other. they support almost the same features. they are the same price (at 6ave) .


I need to decide between the two and pick one in the next few weeks. i have read a lot about the onkyos but dont know much about the denon receiver. Any help willbe appreciated.


Thanks

Anand


Denon

Product Details


* 100 watts x 7 channels

* DCDi Faroudja video processing

* Video up conversion to HDMI

* Deep color support

* Audyssey MultEQ calibration

* Power amplifier assign

* 12 volt 150mA assignable trigger outputs

* RS-232C system control

* Serial IR ports

* Detachable A.C. cord

* Dedicated iPod port for optional ASD-1R D-dock

* Network ready with optional ASD-3W/3N iPod dock

* XM Radio Ready (Connect and Play antenna sold separately)

* 2-way remote capability with optional RC-7000CI and RC-7001RCI remote system




Onkyo

Product Details


* 100 watts x 7 channels at 8 ohms

* 7.1-channel audio and HDTV-compatible

* Features Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding

* HDMI/component video up-conversion

* Satellite radio-ready; compatible SIRIUS or XM tuner, service subscription and antenna required

* iPod-ready with remote interactive dock (sold separately)

* Inputs/outputs:

o 3 HDMI inputs

o 1 HDMI output

o 3 digital optical audio inputs

o 3 digital coaxial audio inputs

o 1 digital optical audio output

o 8 audio inputs

o 2 audio outputs

o 5 composite video inputs

o 2 composite video outputs

o 5 S-video inputs

o 2 S-video outputs

o 3 component video inputs

o 1 component video output

o 1 RS-232 terminal

o 8 preouts

o 1 IR connector

o One 12V trigger

* Supports CD, tape, stereo radio, stereo video sources and more

* 24-bit/192kHz D/A converters

* Frequency response from 5Hz to 100kHz

* Color-coded speaker terminals

* Line-in signal-to-noise ratio: 100dB

* Auto speaker calibration with Audyssey 2EQ

* 40 AM/FM station presets

* ONKYO-RI system control

* 2-zone operability

* Dimensions: 6.875"h x 17.125"w x 14.81"d

* Weight: 25.1 lbs.

* Warranty: 2 years parts; 2 years labor



i am going to be using this for 80% movies and 20 % music. I intend to start off with a 5.1 and then add some klipsch floor standing speakers eventually.


Thanks


----------



## rangaswamy

Did'nt see any replies. Seems like the onkyo is THX2 certified and the Denon has mutli EQ as opposed to 2EQ on onkyo


whats the difference?


AR


----------



## falcon3045

I bought a Denon unit a month ago after looking for two months. Very Happy. Feature set matched my needs and ran into a sale. Still new at this and don't know jack but would recommmend reading the owners threads over on the AVR section before deciding.

Also, take a close look at the feature sets on each and try to understand how you will use it and set it up. May help you decide.


Also the 2308CI is pretty much a clone of the AVR888. It is just missing a couple of features I didn't care about (bought the AVR888). If you can find one, it typically sells for a couple hundred less than the 2308CI.

You can compare the feature sets on the Denon website. Warning though, read complaints about the Denon manual, set up time and remote. Since I was new, took my time reading, setting it up and found it to be not that big a problem.


----------



## rangaswamy

Can some one help me compare these two. both of these are on sale. i want to buy a pair today but need help deciding which one is better. I will probably use a onkyo 705 to power these.

http://www.netaffilia.com/ads/electr...08/07/18/34041 

http://www.netaffilia.com/ads/electr...08/07/18/34040 


i think the polk would suit my budget more but seems like the infinity ones have a good deal on them, Please help me asap.


Thanks

Anand


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14293809
> 
> 
> Denon
> 
> Product Details



Note that the 2809 is due out any day now. You might think about waiting until it's shipping, either to get a better unit (eg. more HDMI inputs), or to get a good deal on a closeout 2808.


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I WANT TO LEARN* /forum/post/14215020
> 
> 
> . I found a system that was rated #1 by Consumer Reports and various other magazines and internet sites by both experts and customers.



I mostly stopped bothering with CR years ago, as their articles often display a lack of real understanding of electronics (their computer advice is especially dismaying) and take so long to reach print that half the models listed are no longer available. For me, their user-submitted car reliability data is all they have to offer that's of interest. Rated #1 in what context? Against other HTIB's?


> Quote:
> HTIB's sell in the millions every year



So do Ford and GM vehicles.



> Quote:
> and there must be a reason for that.



People like to feel current and that they're keeping up with the ever-popular Joneses. It's also becoming increasingly the case that people in our culture want easy fixes, everything handed to them on a platter without them having to think.


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14337948
> 
> 
> Can some one help me compare these two. both of these are on sale. i want to buy a pair today but need help deciding which one is better. I will probably use a onkyo 705 to power these.
> 
> http://www.netaffilia.com/ads/electr...08/07/18/34041
> 
> http://www.netaffilia.com/ads/electr...08/07/18/34040
> 
> 
> i think the polk would suit my budget more but seems like the infinity ones have a good deal on them, Please help me asap.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anand



I can't help you on the Infinity's, but I know my R50s are great. Most people on here would love the opportunity to get those speakers in black, since Fry's only offers them in cherry finish online. I'm sure that whichever one you choose, you will love them.


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grap3* /forum/post/14233056
> 
> 
> I was pretty much set on buying a HTIB system until I read some bad reviews on Amazon, here and took a look at this thread.



I was set on one myself until I read around here myself. Then I looked into an Atlantic Technology 5.1 setup to augment my inherited Bose 501's, but continued research showed that to not be advisable, at least from the mixing angle.


> Quote:
> Since then I have bought an Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and I'm looking for some speaker and a sub recommendations.



I like the specs of the Yamaha RX-663 in that price bracket, but haven't personally used either.


> Quote:
> I don't have much cash which is why I bought the budget receiver but I'm pretty happy with TrueHD and all the connections (the latter being my biggest gripe with HTIB systems).



Connections are sometimes over-rated, especially with the current fad of having an AVR switch and rescale video -- most halfway decent TV's these days have plenty of inputs and scalers, so while having those in an AVR can be convenient from a one-button-push perspective, IMHO it's not always the nirvana or necessity that some tout.


> Quote:
> I'm going to be buying the components I need over the course of the rest of the year and would not like to spend more than $1,000 (not including the receiver I already bought).



That's a fairly restrictive budget. Some folks will tell you that you need to spend more than that. I won't -- but will counsel you on following a different path.


> Quote:
> The room in question is about 9' wide, 13/14' long and 7.5' tall



That's a fairly small room as these things go, which means that you can get satisfying results from fairly modest equipment.


> Quote:
> My primary concern right now is the rear speakers. Apparently you're supposed to put them behind you quite a bit, is that right?



That is the conventional wisdom, especially when using traditional speakers that fire in just one direction. Many people find that if these are used as surrounds close to the seating, the results are highly directional -- you more or less perceive the sounds as coming from a speaker 18" away from your head rather than a bullet whizzing by, or whatever. If one has lots of floorspace, it seems that putting a conventional speaker 7-8' back works just fine, as there is some space for the sound to "spread out" a bit. I have a bigger room, roughly 14 x 20 with a ceiling that ranges from 8' to a 12' barrel vault, but the layout is such that the seating is pretty much constrained to not venture far off the back wall. After reading around AVS forums for a few hours, and looking at the abovementioned AT stuff I was intrigued by the idea of bipole/dipole surrounds for a more diffuse and forgiving surround solution. Then I read about the Axiom QS4/8 surrounds that fire in four different directions, and which are reported to be outstanding for situations where placement is constrained. More on that below with a specific recommendation.


> Quote:
> Well it's a small room with a big 52" tv (Samsung LN52A750) and the couch is right up against the wall. I'm thinking about getting 4 _Polk RC80i_s off of Amazon and putting them in the ceiling above the couch, behind the couch or a mix of the two. Any thoughts or suggestions on this huge shortcoming?



YMMV, but I haven't read many accounts of people gushing over recessed speakers. In the case of front L/C/R speakers, you do in general want the sound (or at least the tweeters) to be more or less in-line with the display and your ears for the experience to be more natural and for dialog and other sounds to seem "connected" with what you're seeing. Higher frequency sounds are perceived much more directionally than lower ones -- eg., you can tell what direction a fire siren is coming from more readily than thunder.


> Quote:
> I've already got nice thick speaker wire running through the wall because if I don't put in-wall speakers I'm planning on making outlets so I don't have speaker wire running in plain sight.



Fair enough. Be aware though that you can get flat 12 gauge speaker wire that's paintable, too.


> Quote:
> My next concern is for a decent powered subwoofer. I've always wanted one. I want one that could really take advantage of the receiver but I know squat about subs. Any suggestions on this?



Since almost all subs have onboard amps, the AVR's role is mostly to decode the .1 LFE channel if present and perhaps direct the bottom end from other speakers to the sub too. The choice of a sub is mostly one that will mesh well with the other speakers and work in your space, and the choice of AVR doesn't really factor in. That said, I'm going to advise that you hold off on buying a sub for now. To get a decent one, even in your modest space, would take too large a chunk of your limited budget. You can always add one later.


> Quote:
> And the left, right and center channels are probably the least problematic in decision making because they don't really have any concerns that need to be addressed. I just want something simple looking but effective.



Don't discount the L/C/R choice that much. You want something that'll mesh well with your surrounds, so that you hear sounds smoothly moving among them.


> Quote:
> I'm moving up from some crappy 5.1 computer all-in-one box thing from '01 by Cambridge Soundworks so anything would really be an improvement. Haha.



Understood -- but be careful that you don't drop a grand replacing one limited setup that doesn't satisfy your needs and expectations with a more expensive limited setup that still falls short. Since you're here and asking these questions, I submit that an in-ceiling solution will do just that. You'd be severely limiting your ability to change things around and incrementally upgrade and I don't think you'd be happy with them.


> Quote:
> I'd really appreciate any suggestions that you could throw my way. Thanks again. =)



Back up a few steps and consider instead a plan that gets you much-improved sound right away, but also leaves you flexibility to experiment with placement and to incrementally upgrade -- and to not leave your hard-earned equipment behind in the drywall when you move.


I suggest that you start out with a modest but quality pair of "bookshelf" speakers for L/R fronts. There are dedicated horizontal center channels out there, but in your situation and budget I'm going to suggest a center channel identical to your L/R fronts. I've read lots of accounts of people doing just this with great success.


I also submit that adding the rear surround speaker(s) should be dead last on your priority list -- there isn't a whole lot of content yet that makes much use of them, and you'll do much better to devote your current budget to a better 4.0/5.0/5.1 system than buying lesser components just because the idea of a full-on 6.1 or 7.1 setup right off the bat sounds sexy. You can always add the rear surrounds later. Heck, if you go this route and start with bookshelf L/R you can later shift them back there when your finances and space permit a move up to bigger mains. This is an upgrade without having to discard any of your initial investment.


So, my suggestion:


3x Axiom M2 for L/C/R @133 each = $399

2x Axiom QS8 surrounds @ 243 = $486


For a total of $840.75 factoring in the 5% discount for buying >= 5 peices at once, and a 10% discount for buying "factory outlet" units. Note that this is a total price, which includes shipping and is not taxed. You could use the other $160 to buy stands, and/or save up for a sub. You could save even more by going with the smaller QS4 surrounds, or you could move the L/R up to the larger M3's, leaving the center as an M2 as it's widely considered to have a more clear midrange --- which is what a center is all about. You could even go with 2x M22 (larger mains) for L/R, 1x M2 for center, and 2x QS8 from the outlet for a total of $990.85, though you might be better off sticking with 3x M2 and putting the difference toward a sub. Note that you'll need to spend more than that $160 for a decent sub, though -- the onboard amp adds to the cost. Alternately you can hold off on the center channel and try to fit in a modest SVS or av123 or Hsu sub, but you'd loose that 5% multi-item discount if purchasing from Axiom.


Some might counsel a similar approach with inexpensive, say, Polk bookshelves or budget floorstanders, but most of the ideas are the same, though everything I read about the Axiom QS8's makes me want to stick with them for surrounds.


Admittedly a bookshelf like the M2 isn't going to reach down very far into the lower bass. Later on you could invest in a modest sub, say a unit from SVS or av123 which are often considered to have good bang/$.


An alternative would be to peruse the for-sale ads here and pick up bigger/better albeit used units. Caveat emptor.


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slenser* /forum/post/14340906
> 
> 
> I can't help you on the Infinity's, but I know my R50s are great. Most people on here would love the opportunity to get those speakers in black, since Fry's only offers them in cherry finish online. I'm sure that whichever one you choose, you will love them.



Thanks for your feedback. I bought the Infinity speakers. They sounded fantastic in the demo room. Right next to them were the Polk speakers which were not on sale in San jose. The infinity sounded marginally better. Even if the polk were on sale i would have preferred the Infinity.

Now i need a center channel speaker and also a receiver. (yes i still dont have a receiver)

I have the Tx-SR705 in mind, it has more features than then Denon 2308ci.

I intend to stop once i get these 2 components. I will add a sub woofer later and also surrounds around thanksgiving.



Can some one suggest a compact speaker that will match the Infinity P362B? I hear that the Polk centers work well. I need it to be as small as possible as it has to rest on the tv stand in front of the tv


Thanks

Anand


----------



## slenser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14343508
> 
> 
> Thanks for your feedback. I bought the Infinity speakers. They sounded fantastic in the demo room. Right next to them were the Polk speakers which were not on sale in San jose. The infinity sounded marginally better. Even if the polk were on sale i would have preferred the Infinity.
> 
> 
> Can some one suggest a compact speaker that will match the Infinity P362B? I hear that the Polk centers work well. I need it to be as small as possible as it has to rest on the tv stand in front of the tv
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anand



Glad you got to hear them both and decide for yourself.


If you want a compact center speaker, Polk is NOT the way to go. They seem to run very large and block the bottom of the screen if placed in front of the TV. I had to place mine on the shelf above the TV.


----------



## gus738

good choice on the infinity's i was going to suggest it but i read the rest of the posts. one thing people tend to do is skimp on the center. its rather important that you get a matching center to the Left and right the L C R are the most imporant in being together. also try vanns dot com they are authorized infinity


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14345481
> 
> 
> good choice on the infinity's i was going to suggest it but i read the rest of the posts. one thing people tend to do is skimp on the center. its rather important that you get a matching center to the Left and right the L C R are the most imporant in being together. also try vanns dot com they are authorized infinity



The infinity unfortunately is so bulky. I can buy the C25 for about 75 bucks used. But i want something small so i can leave it in front of the tv. Can i leave the center channel behind the tv facing upwards may be?


Or is there an alternate center channel i can consider? Some of the polks are actually pretty small. this is mainly for my apartment living room.


----------



## anthony11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14348205
> 
> 
> But i want something small so i can leave it in front of the tv.



Remember that you can put a center on a stand in front of your TV too.


> Quote:
> Can i leave the center channel behind the tv facing upwards may be?



I'm skeptical that this would produce good results.


> Quote:
> Or is there an alternate center channel i can consider? Some of the polks are actually pretty small. this is mainly for my apartment living room.



How much separation do you have between your mains, and how far away do you sit? It's possible that the geometry is such that you wouldn't get much benefit from a center anyway and would do just as well running a phantom.


----------



## Blake9b

Is the $60 deal for the R50's finally dead at Frys.com? I only see it for $199/each at the moment.


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthony11* /forum/post/14349615
> 
> 
> Remember that you can put a center on a stand in front of your TV too.
> 
> 
> I'm skeptical that this would produce good results.
> 
> 
> How much separation do you have between your mains, and how far away do you sit? It's possible that the geometry is such that you wouldn't get much benefit from a center anyway and would do just as well running a phantom.



Running a phantom? My main speakers are probably about 5-6 feet apart on either side of the tv. its a 50 inch plasma. I sit about 8-10 feet away from the tv.


Also, the 60 deal was supposed to expire on 22nd and is available only instore in LA, Houston and one other place. See the footer in the ad.


Some one i know is selling an POLK RM10 set for 120$. Can i use the center and surrounds from that set? i mean will it sound good?

Anand


----------



## gus738

the ideal of your L C R is to be even so the sound feels right so i think its critical that the front 3 match even if they are smaller speakers as long as they match.....


also as far as being big that is your consideration, think flat crt tubes they were best pQ but people wanted something style and thin so then lost PQ for something of a appearance.....


that is your choice. i doublt that the center from the infinity is any bigger then my infinity beta C360?


anyways can we say that that all 3 speakers should sound symmetrical?


----------



## Angry_Games

hey all, I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice in this thread, especially the first post. I pulled the trigger on those Polk R50's ($169 for a pair, including shipping!) and while I don't have them yet, I can't imagine them being anything but awesome.


Also because of this thread in particular, I decided to not do the HTIB and instead piece it together. I got about $1000 worth of stuff yesterday, and I would hazard a guess that it will sound better than any $1000 HTIB I could have purchased (even the HK CP65!).


Thanks everyone for all the massive input in these forums!


----------



## rangaswamy

This is available for around 470 from 6ave . is this a good deal? i have the primus 362B sitting at home without a receiver. Appreciate your input.


Thanks

Anand


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14384143
> 
> 
> This is available for around 470 from 6ave . is this a good deal? i have the primus 362B sitting at home without a receiver. Appreciate your input.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anand



Yes, the 705 is a great deal for that price. Get it!


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/14384335
> 
> 
> Yes, the 705 is a great deal for that price. Get it!



Ill get it as soon as i get a chance to demo this piece. Im confused between this and the denon 2308.


A friend of mine just returned the 705 for a yamaha 663.


----------



## afrogt

Connect your speakers to his Yamaha 663. If you like it, get it. The 663 can be had for about $350. He can tell you why he liked the 663 better than the Onkyo since he exchanged it.


I haven't heard any Denon's in a while so I can't offer an opinion on those.


----------



## gus738

why would someone want to buy a inferior product (low stuff) yamaha insted of a onkyo? in terms of better product of better built better performance etc etc just better?


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14387752
> 
> 
> why would someone want to buy a inferior product (low stuff) yamaha insted of a onkyo? in terms of better product of better built better performance etc etc just better?



The yamaha was just less complicated and served his requirement better, most of us dont have a dedicated home theater room and hence the requirements are much lesser.

im considering a onkyo just to be future proof for at least 5 years in terms of my requirement. At this point any darn old receiver will work for me.


thx


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14387752
> 
> 
> why would someone want to buy a inferior product (low stuff) yamaha insted of a onkyo? in terms of better product of better built better performance etc etc just better?



Can you say "FANBOY"??


----------



## gus738




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/14392643
> 
> 
> Can you say "FANBOY"??



fanboy? for what onkyo being better brand then yamaha? theirs alot of words to define fanboy but bottom line onkyo is known as a better brand then yamaha, to me i think its lower end i didnt say it was POS but its a lower end product. please correct me or quote me again samsurd but if you do it please explain rather then just call out someone fanboy


----------



## Angry_Games

hey guys, the Polk R50 floorstanding speakers are back @ $59/ea at Frys.com again

http://shop1.frys.com/ShopCartServlet?purchase=4005092 


I ordered two last week...only negative is waiting forever for DHL to deliver grrr (but worth it considering the price!)


----------



## gus738

are these polk R50 floorstanding better then the onkyo book shelf SKF-100?


i would assume yes due to floorstand vs book shelf but what do you guys think? worth the price? i have a onkyo TX-SR600 and onkyo SKW-100 sub and all around onkyo speakers 5.1 SK 100 series




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Angry_Games* /forum/post/14408668
> 
> 
> hey guys, the Polk R50 floorstanding speakers are back @ $59/ea at Frys.com again
> 
> http://shop1.frys.com/ShopCartServlet?purchase=4005092
> 
> 
> I ordered two last week...only negative is waiting forever for DHL to deliver grrr (but worth it considering the price!)


----------



## Ron Temple

Polk is a speaker manufacturer, Onkyo is an electronics conglomerate. They sub out those speaker contracts based on low bid/low pricepoint economics.


The R50s are an entry level floorstander that's being sold below cost by Frys. It's a gateway product...an excellent value that does many things very well, but it's not likely that you will stop there within the Polk lineup.


They absolutely destroy any Onkyo HTIB speaker package whether it's bookshelf or not. Onkyo makes decent AVRs, not speakers.


----------



## gus738

Ron my onkyo is not part of a htib but in short you're saying that the polk R50 in no doulbt is a better deal consider the $60 a piece?


also another issue is the timber since the center is onkyo's SKC-100


and last but not least the onkyo TX-SR600 is only 80 Watts per channel based on 8 ohms....


how would it work with the polk? assuming i get the 2 front polk r50s (onkyo center?) and as for rears as a coencidence i happen to have Polk R15 lol or Onkyo SKM-100


thanks in advance


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14410085
> 
> 
> Ron my onkyo is not part of a htib but in short you're saying that the polk R50 in no doulbt is a better deal consider the $60 a piece?
> 
> 
> also another issue is the timber since the center is onkyo's SKC-100
> 
> 
> and last but not least the onkyo TX-SR600 is only 80 Watts per channel based on 8 ohms....
> 
> 
> how would it work with the polk? assuming i get the 2 front polk r50s (onkyo center?) and as for rears as a coencidence i happen to have Polk R15 lol or Onkyo SKM-100
> 
> 
> thanks in advance



Gus, I searched Onkyo's site and couldn't find anything on those speakers. I'd guess you would greatly prefer the R50s and want to swap out the center in short order. The CS1 or CSi3 work well with the Rs. Polk R15s match the R50s. My first Polk setup was R50s/CSi3/R15s with various subs (all much better than the current SKW-204). It was a setup that was hard to upgrade. Better speakers that cost considerably more money weren't that much better until you got into the 3-5K range (as a system), at least for me. Don't get me wrong, I heard plenty of speakers > $400 a pair that I thought were superior, just not enough to justify upgrading the whole rig. I eventually went vintage to get what I wanted. Both my boys now have hand me down Polk R and RTi rigs...they are a great value, excellent for HT and very decent for music.


----------



## gus738

ok so its worth it but will my onkyo power it fine? or due to the fact that it only goes 80 wpc at 8 ohms will it sound the same or worse ?


last will the tiber be bad if i keep the current center? how much is the cs1? the only reason the polk pop into my head was cuz of the price


----------



## Tulpa

The Onkyo receiver will power the Polks fine. They power my Athenas without a problem.


I would dump the Onkyo center. It will probably sound funky with the R50s (funky in the bad way.)


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Angry_Games* /forum/post/14408668
> 
> 
> hey guys, the Polk R50 floorstanding speakers are back @ $59/ea at Frys.com again
> 
> http://shop1.frys.com/ShopCartServlet?purchase=4005092
> 
> 
> I ordered two last week...only negative is waiting forever for DHL to deliver grrr (but worth it considering the price!)



The local Fry's stores were selling the R50's in black for $59 each also. I actually think the cherry looks better though.


They'll probably be on sale again Friday when their 8 page ad comes out.


----------



## sulakd

Ok, I was ready to pull the trigger on the Onkyo HT-SP908, then I saw the HT-S6100, which seems like a better fit for me because I wasn't even interested in the DVD player that come with the 908 system. But then I got thinking about ditching the HTIB idea after I found this site. Both systems are available for about $700. But I'd be willing to spend a little more if I thought I would get a better end result (up to $1000).


Room is about 12' x 14'.

System will be for PS3 games and Blu-Ray played through PS3.

I'd like to get a 7.1 system without waiting to add rear speakers later

Due to the room layout, I don't have room for floorstanding speakers

I'm currenty looking at Onkyo TX-SR606 for $369 or the TX-SR705 for $499

That would leave $640 or $500 for 7 speakers + sub


Is this do-able? Or would I be better off with the HTIB for my pricerange?

If do-able, what speakers are recommended?


Thanks in advance for any help!!!!!


----------



## afrogt

Sure, its doable. Take a look at this Mission 7.1 system


5.1 system
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229 


Add 2 more M30 speakers
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2191 


That puts you at $310 plus shipping. Then add your subwoofer of choice with the remaining money.


Another deal.

3 pairs of Athena LS-100 for $99/pr

1 Athena LS Center for $99


Leaves you $100-$240 for your subwoofer.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search 
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/540349076 
http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductC...&idproduct=396


----------



## sulakd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/14412495
> 
> 
> Sure, its doable. Take a look at this Mission 7.1 system
> 
> 
> 5.1 system
> http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2229
> 
> 
> Add 2 more M30 speakers
> http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2191
> 
> 
> That puts you at $310 plus shipping. Then add your subwoofer of choice with the remaining money.
> 
> 
> Another deal.
> 
> 3 pairs of Athena LS-100 for $99/pr
> 
> 1 Athena LS Center for $99
> 
> 
> Leaves you $100-$240 for your subwoofer.
> http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search
> http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/540349076
> http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductC...&idproduct=396



Thanks for the help! If I bought the Onkyo HTIB HT-S6100 and replaced the front and center channel speakers, would it sound messed up?

S6100 HTIB for $700

1 pairs of Athena LS-100 for $99/pr

1 Athena LS Center for $99

$900 total


I like the S6100 because I'd end up with a more powerful receiver (130 watts/ch vs 100) (and I'd get the ipod dock too).


What about the HSU Ventriloquist set
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html 

Are they better/worse than the Athena LS-100 speakers?


----------



## antwon412




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/14410712
> 
> 
> The Onkyo receiver will power the Polks fine. They power my Athenas without a problem.
> 
> 
> I would dump the Onkyo center. It will probably sound funky with the R50s (funky in the bad way.)




why is this? i was considering getting an onyko avr and pairing it with those polks. would i be better off pairing it with the hsu bookshelves/center?


nevermind - i didnt notice you said ditch the onyko CENTER.....


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sulakd* /forum/post/14414200
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help! If I bought the Onkyo HTIB HT-S6100 and replaced the front and center channel speakers, would it sound messed up?



How "messed up" it will be is only up to you to decide. Certainly you should hear differences with multi-channel music and possibly with some movie scenes with heavy front to back panning, but 3 good front speakers is certainly better than none. Many other people went that route. Most movies (if that's your HT goal) will sound better with improved dialog.



> Quote:
> I like the S6100 because I'd end up with a more powerful receiver (130 watts/ch vs 100) (and I'd get the ipod dock too).



Don't get hung up on the receiver power ratings too much. Those "130 W/ch" and "1200W system power", that excite the HTiB crowd so much, were written by the marketing team for Onkyo to compete with the WalMart $150 1500W wonders.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14410085
> 
> 
> how would it work with the polk? assuming i get the 2 front polk r50s (onkyo center?) and as for rears as a coencidence i happen to have Polk R15 lol or Onkyo SKM-100
> 
> 
> thanks in advance



I got the Polk R150 bookshelf speakers (which I think are almost equal to the R50s) when Frys.com had them for $49 a pair, and then looked around for a center speaker. Frys.com then had the CSR center speaker for $79 for about two weeks. You could get the smokin' deal on the Polk R50s now, use your existing center with the goal of upgrading it when a Polk CSi center goes on sale (also check the Polk Outlet store on "the bay" for specials on the centers ... they have them occasionally. The store is linked from the Polk website).


----------



## samsurd2

Crutchfield has the CSR for $99. It's the sonic match to the R50s.


----------



## gus738

ok i need to go to polk website lol CSR is sonic matched? as in timber properly with R50?

what about the cs1 or csi??


only reasons why i want to upgrade is because from 100/ or 199 r50 to 60 and likewise with center since i want a proper treamtment,


and heck if 3 fronts are polk are timber and 2 back R15 its should be a better upgrade from the onkyo sk-100 series


----------



## antwon412

hows the polk r40? i assume its the older line before the r50's.....i have the opprtunity to get 2 of them and the maching center for 150 used in good condition.


should i jump on it?


----------



## travis33

I have polk R300s (similar to R50 with one woofer). I had the CSR and I wasn't a big fan. I upgraded to the csi3 and am very happy with the results (even the wife noticed a difference). It's close enough to the tweets in the R300, so it doesn't sound "weird".


Just my $0.02


----------



## gus738

how much is csi though?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14416971
> 
> 
> how much is csi though?



CSi3 $130 plus shipping at Amazon and jr.com. Comes in black or cherry.


You can also get the CS1 for $95 shipped from Amazon. people tend to like that better than the CSR.


CSi3 is a little better speaker than CS1. Is it worth the extra $35-$50? that's up to you.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> What about the HSU Ventriloquist set
> http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html
> 
> Are they better/worse than the Athena LS-100 speakers?



People really like the Hsu Ventriloquist setup. Its a good satellite/sub system. Is it better than a full size Athena bookshelf? I don't think so.


Its nice for what it is though and the subwoofer is really good.


----------



## rangaswamy

There is a good deal on this speaker. Any idea if this speaker is good, how will it match with Primus 362B for front speakers? I know its a good idea to keep the same brand for LCR but right now the infinity centers are too expensive/ too big for my setup.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...F2IwReO49nYDFg 


Please let me know your opinion


Thanks

Anand


----------



## Tulpa

No idea how it will match for certain, but in all likelihood it probably won't match.


I'd just go "phantom center" with the two Primus speakers and save for the proper Infinity center down the road.


----------



## antwon412

could someone tell me who the correct ebay seller is for the h-100?


i see a seller called sounpros and one called acousticsounddesigns.


thanks!


----------



## rangaswamy

Im thinking about getting a temporary receiver which i can use till i can afford the Onkyo 705. My question is about the audio input to the receiver. I believe all the components are connected to the receiver and the receiver to the tv.


Now since my receiver will not be able to pass through 1080i picture to my tv, how would i wire it such that the picture quality is not lost. Im basically trying to figure out whats the next best type of wiring i can use so that the sound is not bad. I assume i will have to use the audio out on my tv to the receiver.


Also, where can i get speaker wire? 16 gauge is supposed to be standard. is there any other spec i should look for? copper vs some other conducting meaterial?

My speakers will be with in 1 to 10ft of the receiver.


PS: i decided to get the TX-SR604. Im getting a good deal on Craigslist. I can do HDMi with this receiver and it should keep me hapy for a year or two.I can spend the extra money on a nice tv stand -- probably a Z line tv stand with mount. I just need to purchase the cable now and test my speakers this evening


Thanks

AR


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antwon412* /forum/post/14421041
> 
> 
> could someone tell me who the correct ebay seller is for the h-100?
> 
> 
> i see a seller called sounpros and one called acousticsounddesigns.
> 
> 
> thanks!



They're both authorized BIC Acoustech dealers and both based in Vegas. Either one would work for you, just make an offer.


----------



## antwon412

great, thanks


----------



## Florida_Gator

Anyone else having their replies deleted from this thread?


Odd, but my last entry (or more?) to this thread is gone. I wonder what happened?


Thanks,


----------



## Tulpa

There was a system failure that deleted a lot of posts from the past week and they can't be recovered. Nothing malicious, just an accident.


----------



## rangaswamy

Before you jump on me, i have an honest question. I have the infinty 362b for front (it really annoyed grumpy (the wife) because they were big). Im getting a Onkyo 604 for the receiver and i was wondering if i can buy the bose satellite speakers for surround speakers. They are small and i could wall mount them with minimal hardware.


I have to plan to add the center and the sub in the coming months. Appreciate your response.


Thanks


----------



## Tulpa

As long as the Bose speakers have binding posts or clips that work with standard speaker wire (meaning, doesn't use Bose specific connections), and your receiver is rated to handle them (others can chime in on that, as I don't know the specs), then they will work.


I won't comment on how they'll sound. I honestly don't know, although you'll probably get some critiques.


----------



## Wakee

I was looking at getting a TX-SR606 and and two Polk Audio Monitor 50s from Amazon. I will be in an apartment for the next 6 months so I can't really use a major sub or anything too loud. Will these work pretty well and allow for upgrades later? Or will I be missing something with just the two Polks.


I have an Xbox, Cable Box, PS3, so I wanted all the HDMI inputs.


Thanks.


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wakee* /forum/post/14429222
> 
> 
> I was looking at getting a TX-SR606 and and two Polk Audio Monitor 50s from Amazon. I will be in an apartment for the next 6 months so I can't really use a major sub or anything too loud. Will these work pretty well and allow for upgrades later? Or will I be missing something with just the two Polks.
> 
> 
> I have an Xbox, Cable Box, PS3, so I wanted all the HDMI inputs.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Wakee,

I just set up my initial system yesterday, I have primus 362B for fronts and a TX SR 604, which is very similar to 606. The sound was unbelievably crisp, and i hadnt even touched the calibrations. Just out of the box and plugged in to the speakers, it sounded so good. My only problem, my neighbor from above came down and told me nicely to reduce the bass. If you live in an apartment i think your setup will work very well. I would suggest the R50s, they were available for 60$ ea this weekend in frys. i dont know if the deal is available online.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Well that's my luck! The R50s sale ended yesterday







they're back up to $199, but the guy said they go on sale every other week........


----------



## rangaswamy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kingcarcas* /forum/post/14440998
> 
> 
> Well that's my luck! The R50s sale ended yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they're back up to $199, but the guy said they go on sale every other week........



i can confirm that, i have seen it on sale very often. Wait it out , these are very good speakers for the price. Recently i purchased the Infinity 362B at frys., The polks werent on sale then. The primus was slightly better than then polk so i decided not to wait. But the polk are great too.


AR


----------



## synovia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wakee* /forum/post/14429222
> 
> 
> I was looking at getting a TX-SR606 and and two Polk Audio Monitor 50s from Amazon. I will be in an apartment for the next 6 months so I can't really use a major sub or anything too loud. Will these work pretty well and allow for upgrades later? Or will I be missing something with just the two Polks.
> 
> 
> I have an Xbox, Cable Box, PS3, so I wanted all the HDMI inputs.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Spend a little more cash on the Speakers, and buy something used/closeout for the receiver. THe local tweeter near me has the sony str-dg810 for like $139 on closeout....check their clearance page. The speakers make much more of a difference in the sound, so you're better off spending the money there.




I highly recommend the Rti8 at $149 each (frys?) if you can find them, or maybe even the rti10 (saw them at 479/pr at one point). Receiver shouldn't be the majority of the money you spend. Honestly, if you're only going to be running 2 channel, theres no reason to spend $$ on the receiver, just buy one on craigslist.


----------



## fshagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rangaswamy* /forum/post/14423861
> 
> 
> Before you jump on me, i have an honest question. I have the infinty 362b for front (it really annoyed grumpy (the wife) because they were big). Im getting a Onkyo 604 for the receiver and i was wondering if i can buy the bose satellite speakers for surround speakers. They are small and i could wall mount them with minimal hardware.
> 
> 
> I have to plan to add the center and the sub in the coming months. Appreciate your response.
> 
> 
> Thanks



There are some other small speakers that might have a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) because of size, mounting and color:

http://www.orbaudio.com/ 
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/owm3/ ... you can also check Polk's closeout store on eBay at http://stores.ebay.com/Polk-Audio-Direct 


I haven't heard these, so I don't know how well they sound. I've heard that surrounds aren't driven very hard in most HT applications, so you can often get away with less expensive speakers in those positions.


I'm going with inexpensive in-ceiling speakers for my surrounds; I chose These from forum sponsor Monoprice.com. That's another option.


I finally realized something ... my upgrades to my system are costing me in ways I didn't expect. I paid $49 a pair for some Polk R150 bookshelf speakers, and $120 for paint for the family room. I paid $109 for an Onkyo 304 A/V receiver, and $300 for valances for the living room. I paid $149 for a Velodyne refurbished VX-10 sub and $348 for wood blinds for the family room. I paid $38 for the in-ceiling speakers and $158 for bamboo pleated sliding glass door vertical shade. Gumpy = Happy.


----------



## Tiyuri

So I have been spending today reading here and other forums trying to find the best 5.0 system to meet my needs. I am hoping you fine folks can help me narrow it down further.


Budget: $600

Room size: 20' x 15' x 10'

AVR: Onkyo SR606

Use: 90% TV 10% DVD


I will get a sub later. Right now I just want to get the speakers in place.


The finalists:


The Speaker Company TSAT-1000 ($300). It's cheap.


PSB: 2 x Alpha B1s, 2x Alpha LRs, 1 x Alpha C1 price tbd but looks like in budget


SVSound: 4 x SBS01, 1x SCS01 $650, slightly over budget and won't arrive until October.


Those are the three finalists are the PSB and SVSound speakers that much better than the TSC set to warrant double the price? Are there other speakers I should be considering?


Thanks


----------



## Hatcher

Hey,


I'm looking for a full 5.1 speaker set up and a 7.1(just in case I add later) receiver that can process LPCM through HDMI. My main use will be gaming and blu-ray movies through the PS3.


The price I am willing to pay is ~$1000, so I guess I am looking for a receiver that is approximately $300. The only receiver that I have seen in that range is the Sony STRDG720 .


Much like Tiyuri, I was also looking at PSB's Alpha Series , except I was looking at 2 x T1s, 2 x B1s, 1 x C1 and 1 of PSBs sub woofers, I assume it was there entry level sub. I can get that set of PSBs for ~$700.


Other products that are available locally are Yamaha, Monitor Audio, B&W, NAD and everything that Futureshop has. So does anyone have any comments about the set up I was looking at or any other suggestions?


----------



## statman

How's this for a deal?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-696 


Thinking about upgrading my sub in my main system, while getting a cheap secondary system for TV watching via the deal above. Upgraded receiver from ~10 yr old Sony STR-DB830 to Onkyo 705 in the theater room a few months back, old receiver could be used in the primary TV watching room w/ new cheap speakers. Theater room speakers are ~10 yr old Infinity BU-120 sub, CC-3, RS-3, QSP-1 5.1 system. Both rooms are ~18'x13'. Main theater has 96" screen on 13' wall. TV room has 60" DLP angled in the corner, mostly against the 13' wall.


Also, any suggestions for adding 2 speakers to take the old 5.1 Infinity set up to go to 7.1? Or should I just be looking to buy a new 7.1 speaker setup at some point?


----------



## DarkNessBear

I have a Yamaha HTIB (it was $400 a year ago) and I'm sitting here listening to my computer speakers ($20-30 1.5 years ago) and it blows it away... why...


ANYWAYS, I want to upgrade, what should I upgrade first? I'm thinking bass, but I have trouble hearing dialogue so maybe center? I feel maybe I wired it bad or haven't calibrated the sound/receiver. And is there at all a reason to upgrade my receiver if it has all the connections I need? Do some have better power output than others?


----------



## gus738

dark ness bear start over begin with a nice receiver onkyo 705 or 604 get your 3 matching speakers (infinity beta 50's c360') or someting along those lines then work your way up with rear sourrounds in the future (if tight budget) then your sub last.


and your expereince will change


----------



## toografik4u

hey guys, been lurkin for a while, have a question...


is there a list of good retailers anywhere, i have seen fry's mentioned and the 'bay but any others that a reputable?


also, i see a lot of mention of the R50's and Monitor 50s, just goin off the price from the polk website, are the R50's $200 better than the Monitor 50s? and if so.. how much better are the Monitor 60s compared to the 2 for an extra $10 ($650 for a pair of M 60 vs $640 for R50s)


thanks alot guys.


I have a Philips HTIB and I am dying to upgrade, I have a fairly small living room in a townhouse so i am thinkin a decent AVR and solid L/C/R should suit me fine for a while and would still be better than the HTIB crap i have now


thanks again...


----------



## valuebuyer

Well, I can not quantify how much Monitor 50's are better than R50's, but to my ears there was good bit of difference. I liked the sound of monitor 50's much better than R50 and R300. But the current Fry's deal is for monitor 50 in Maple color for 99 dollars. If they were in black color, I would have bought them over R50s (available at 59 dollars in black). So even though I really liked Monitor 50s over R50s, I ended up buying R50s for the price and color. I am waiting for monitor 50's in black to go on sale.

Hope this helps



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toografik4u* /forum/post/14642665
> 
> 
> hey guys, been lurkin for a while, have a question...
> 
> 
> is there a list of good retailers anywhere, i have seen fry's mentioned and the 'bay but any others that a reputable?
> 
> 
> also, i see a lot of mention of the R50's and Monitor 50s, just goin off the price from the polk website, are the R50's $200 better than the Monitor 50s? and if so.. how much better are the Monitor 60s compared to the 2 for an extra $10 ($650 for a pair of M 60 vs $640 for R50s)
> 
> 
> thanks alot guys.
> 
> 
> I have a Philips HTIB and I am dying to upgrade, I have a fairly small living room in a townhouse so i am thinkin a decent AVR and solid L/C/R should suit me fine for a while and would still be better than the HTIB crap i have now
> 
> 
> thanks again...


----------



## valuebuyer

Great thread this.

It is kind of baffling the question "how does the speaker set SX-HTB from Fluance ( http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html ) compare with Polk speakers” hasn’t been answered yet. I have searched in AVS forum and even Googled it. There are some reviews but there is no data about which Polk series does Fluance compete with? Does it compete with R50s/R150 etc combination or the monitor 50 series or something even better from Polk?

The flunance deal and reviews sounds very promising but lack of clear comparison or ability to hear them first hand (or first ears







) is holding me back.

Help!!!


(I might contradict my earlier response where I said color was a factor in me choosing R50 as Fluance is only available in lighter color. But I am willing to look beyond color combination if I could get an entire set in matching color).


----------



## toografik4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/14651983
> 
> 
> Well, I can not quantify how much Monitor 50's are better than R50's, but to my ears there was good bit of difference. I liked the sound of monitor 50's much better than R50 and R300. But the current Fry's deal is for monitor 50 in Maple color for 99 dollars. If they were in black color, I would have bought them over R50s (available at 59 dollars in black). So even though I really liked Monitor 50s over R50s, I ended up buying R50s for the price and color. I am waiting for monitor 50's in black to go on sale.
> 
> Hope this helps



yeah i realize u cant quantify a speaker sounding better than another.


This is what i was thinking to replace my Philips HTIB:


Onkyo 606

2 x Monitor 60 for L/R

1 x CS1/CS2 (which is the better fit for the Monitor 60s?)


or would 2x RTi A5 ($379/pair refurb. from Polk) and their coordinating center be better


would it be worth it to spend a little more and get the Monitor 60's or just get the monitor 50's when they go on sale at fry's?


----------



## DSTRETCH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toografik4u* /forum/post/14652471
> 
> 
> yeah i realize u cant quantify a speaker sounding better than another.
> 
> 
> This is what i was thinking to replace my Philips HTIB:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 606
> 
> 2 x Monitor 60 for L/R
> 
> 1 x CS1/CS2 (which is the better fit for the Monitor 60s?)
> 
> 
> or would 2x RTi A5 ($379/pair refurb. from Polk) and their coordinating center be better
> 
> 
> would it be worth it to spend a little more and get the Monitor 60's or just get the monitor 50's when they go on sale at fry's?



I got my Monitor 50's in black for $99 each(free shipping) from Amazon back in May. They are not that price now on Amazon, but their prices do change if you can wait.


----------



## valuebuyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *valuebuyer* /forum/post/14652032
> 
> 
> Great thread this.
> 
> It is kind of baffling the question "how does the speaker set SX-HTB from Fluance ( http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html ) compare with Polk speakers hasn't been answered yet. I have searched in AVS forum and even Googled it. There are some reviews but there is no data about which Polk series does Fluance compete with? Does it compete with R50s/R150 etc combination or the monitor 50 series or something even better from Polk?
> 
> The flunance deal and reviews sounds very promising but lack of clear comparison or ability to hear them first hand (or first ears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) is holding me back.
> 
> Help!!!
> 
> 
> (I might contradict my earlier response where I said color was a factor in me choosing R50 as Fluance is only available in lighter color. But I am willing to look beyond color combination if I could get an entire set in matching color).



Anyone guys?


----------



## Ron Temple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toografik4u* /forum/post/14652471
> 
> 
> yeah i realize u cant quantify a speaker sounding better than another.
> 
> 
> This is what i was thinking to replace my Philips HTIB:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 606
> 
> 2 x Monitor 60 for L/R
> 
> 1 x CS1/CS2 (which is the better fit for the Monitor 60s?)
> 
> 
> or would 2x RTi A5 ($379/pair refurb. from Polk) and their coordinating center be better
> 
> 
> would it be worth it to spend a little more and get the Monitor 60's or just get the monitor 50's when they go on sale at fry's?



If you can afford the ticket, the A5s are seriously better than the Monitors though I think that pair got snapped up...there will be others.


----------



## toografik4u

cool thanks Ron, I will keep my eye open for another good deal for the A5's


----------



## dave206

Hi All,


I'm really new to this and a complete novice. I've been learning by reading all the great posts..Based on what I gathered, I've bought Onkyo 505 (receiver) and Bic 100 as SUB. I started with a budget of abt $650. But I've laready spent $450 on these 2. So, my questions are:


1. Was $450 well spent?

2. Can I get reasonable set of speakers for $200-250?

Its fine if I can not. I can wait a bit more to save some and then buy good speakers.


Thanks a lot!


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dave206* /forum/post/14678521
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I'm really new to this and a complete novice. I've been learning by reading all the great posts..Based on what I gathered, I've bought Onkyo 505 (receiver) and Bic 100 as SUB. I started with a budget of abt $650. But I've laready spent $450 on these 2. So, my questions are:
> 
> 
> 1. Was $450 well spent?
> 
> 2. Can I get reasonable set of speakers for $200-250?
> 
> Its fine if I can not. I can wait a bit more to save some and then buy good speakers.
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot!



What kind of speakers are you looking for? Floorstanding? Bookshelf? Small satellites you can mount on the wall?


To answer your first question, I think the receiver you got is respectable and the Bic H-100 is arguably the best sub out there under $250. So I think you did well there. As for your second question, I think it depends what you mean by "reasonable set of speakers". If by that you mean a full set of five speakers then I'd say probably not. However, you can likely find a good deal somewhere on a decent pair of speakers to use as your mains. Then you can save more money and buy the rest of your speakers later.


----------



## dave206

Good to know that I chose decent receiver and sub.


I am actually looking for bookshelves. I guess, I'll just buy Athena mains now and then wait for a while to get center and surrounds.


Thanks again


----------



## Warder45

Hi guys, I posted this in the speakers forum, but maybe that's a little to high end for this question.


I'm looking to replace my Onkyo HTIB speakers when I get my Sony STR-DG910. I'm looking to find towers around $200 a pop since there may be college parties that go on and if one blows out I don't want to be out a lot of money. The room isn't too big maybe 15'-20' x 15'-20'. The other thing I was thinking was to use towers as surrounds since I can't drill into the wall and it would save me having to find stands.


Here's what I've been looking at;


Polk: RTi8 or RS50 fronts / RS50 surrounds / ? center

Athena: LS500 Fronts / LS300 surrounds / LS-C100 center

Energy: C500(pushing the $ limit) or C300 Fronts / C300 surrounds / ? center


For sub's I'm looking at the eD subs as I've heard nothing but good things.


I know the Energy's seem to be popular here, and the most expensive, my concern is that the receiver won't have enough juice to power them properly. Also does JBL offer anything in this range? They seem like they could pull double duty for parties.


Thanks for any help. - John


----------



## Ket49trun

Hey, thanks for the thread guys. I've been lurking around the plasma forums for a long time and decided to put off that purchase for a while. So I switched gears to looking for a surround sound system, and the complexity of everything just seemed overwhelming. I was looking at going for either the Onkyo S6100 or S9100THX, just for the convenience and because I was afraid of the speakers not matching. But after listening to people here, I decided to try to put together a system of my own. This is what I've come up with:


My budget started around $1000 for a complete audio system, but if I don't buy all the components at once it will be a little more flexible. I'm a college student living in a small apartment complex (main room 15' x 12').


The system would be used for watching TV, music, HD DVD's, Blueray's, and gaming. Equipment we own: Vizio LCD VX32L, PS3, Xbox 360 (component version), and a Nintendo-64.

*Receiver*

Onkyo TX-SR606

*Surrounds*

Athena - LS-100 Bookshelf Speakers

Athena - LS-500 Tower Speaker

*Center*

LS-C100 Center Channel Speaker

*Sub*

Velodyne VX-10

Velodyne VRP1200 Powered Subwoofer

ED A2-300 sub

BIC H100


I'll be getting the TX-SR606, and two LS-500's for the front speakers first. Additionally, I got a free subwoofer from a friend. I think it's from a Samsung HTIB. The model no is PS-WTQ85, and I couldn't really find any info on it. Probably not the best sub in the world, but I will use that for a sub until I can afford one of the above.

*Questions*

1. Is it a waste of money to put LS-500 tower speakers as two rears as opposed to the bookshelf speakers (just assuming rears are not as important)?

2. If I don't buy all the speakers at once, should I wait to buy the center until I buy the surrounds? Don't know if a 3.1 system is preferable to a 2.1, or if the receiver settings allow me to even configure for an output of 3.1.

3. When I eventually purchase a sub, would running the new subwoofer and the Samsung sound better than running only the new one? Do I need special adapters to run multiple subwoofers?

4. Are all speaker wires (say 14 gauge) equivalent across brands for the most part? Will I need banana plugs or are they suggested?

5. For the money I'm spending, am I getting a good system?



Thanks for any replies, and sorry for the ridiculously long post.


----------



## iMigraine

Hi all,


I hope this is the right forum since I'm looking to build a setup then buy a HTIB.


Recently I've been lurking around since someone suggested purchasing a receiver and two audio speakers instead of computer speakers for my PC. Currently I watch movies and listen to music on my Mac and game on my PC in my 11' x 11' bedroom.


I like the idea of slowly buying good components as my budget allows. From reading many posts on affordable speakers, the Polk Audio R150's look promising. Bookshelf setup would be preferred since I don't have the room for floor speakers.


Today I got a quick opportunity to listen to the R150's and OWM3 Series, along with a JBL (model unknown) at Fry's Electronics. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to listen to them as long as I would have liked. My frozen groceries were defrosting in the back of my car in 90-degree heat!


But, to my novice untrained ears the Polk R150s sounded great! The OWM3 seem to accentuate the highs in the music only. There seem to be little mid tone and no bass at all. I realize that these speakers are not meant to boom. However, the JBL's speakers sounded better then the OWM3 but the R150's sounded fuller, well balanced to me.


So I like what I heard, but is there any similarly priced bookshelf speaker ($200) I should evaluate?


My plans are to build a nice 2.1 system then slowly build up to 5.1.


----------



## samsurd2

I own use 4 x R150 and a CSR in my 5.1 set-up. I auditioned them at Frys and bought them at Frys on-line. I'm very pleased with the SQ. Although Frys doesn't have them on-line, Crutchfield has the R150's for $99.00/pair.


----------



## PineAlps

I really need some help, I don't know much about speakers. I am going to buy one of these Receivers tx-sr806 or tx-sr876 unless there is a better on that can be recommended for around the same price, I would like if it had internet connection on the receiver as well. I am not sure what speakers I should buy to go with the Receiver. This unit will go in a HT that is 18' wide and 25' long. I am looking at spending about $1000.00 for the speakers, these Receivers are both 7.1 surround. Any advice would be helpful, I know nothing.

Thanks again

Respectfully

Pinealps


----------



## Patch22

If anyone is interested I found the Onkyo TX-SR505 for $135 at ecost.com today.


----------



## tc2007

Hi All

I need feedback from gurus on this thread for my new home theater setup.

This is the first time I am doing something like this. I never owned even a decent Stereo system, let alone a HT. I am not an audiophile but can tell good sound from bad.

I took advantage of the 30% cash back from M$ and Fleabay yesterday and pulled the trigger on the receiver and speakers.

So please provide your honest feedback.


1) HTPC with Asus Xonar DX Sound Card (Ordered a BD drive last week)

2) Onkyo TX-SR506 (I know no sound on HDMI sucks)

3) BIC H-100 Subwoofer

4) Polk RM-10 Speaker Set.

5) 2 Toslink Optical cables + 1 HDMI Male 2 Male + 1 HDMI - DVI (for HTPC) + 100ft Speaker cable from MonoPrice.com


Is this good enough for a small apt living room? Also I wont be putting the volume to more than 40% i guess because of my 2 year old kid.


Thanks

TC.


----------



## Tulpa

The Onkyo receiver isn't too bad. I have a two-generation previous model. If you can do without TrueHD and stuff (or have analog audio hookups), it's actually pretty damn good.


I have that sub, too, and like it.


Can't comment on the Polk package.


----------



## hokiefanboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738* /forum/post/14612728
> 
> 
> dark ness bear start over begin with a nice receiver onkyo 705 or 604 get your 3 matching speakers (infinity beta 50's c360') or someting along those lines then work your way up with rear sourrounds in the future (if tight budget) then your sub last.
> 
> 
> and your expereince will change



Wondering if you'd apply the same advice to my system:


7 year old Sony STR-DE685

Bose 301 (bookshelf) x2

Sony PS3

Samsung LN46a550


We split between 60% PS3, 40% HD cable, but the HD sources plug into the TV and I'm sending analog audio to the receiver currently (I think I can upgrade to optical with a cable or two).


I have a budget of around $400, so I could float the SR606 and get speakers later, but is there any merit in upgrading to a new front 3 speakers and get a new receiver next, or is that pointless with my current receiver?


----------



## samsurd2

^^^JMO, but I'd definitely spend the money on better speakers and upgrade the receiver later. This should provide more of an improvement in sound quality than changing the receiver. Like I said, JMO.


----------



## RedBrave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Patch22* /forum/post/14787279
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested I found the Onkyo TX-SR505 for $135 at ecost.com today.



That's a recertified product. Hope you knew that before ordering.


----------



## driverx2010

Hey guys,


I also am starting to think about putting togetter a piece by piece system in my family room. I was initially thinking about going with going for the Onkyo HT S9100 but don't really need the 7.1 and if possible maybe get a better 5.1 system by piecing it together myself. I was looking at a few of these posts and have constanly seen many using the Onkyo TX-SR606 or Onkyo TX-SR506as the reciever of choice. For front speakers I would prefer towers....which I'm not really sure about. I've noticed someone talking about the Athen LS-500 towers. I'm clueless on center channel and surround speakers. If anyone can give me any info on the products I mentioned or point me in some sort of direction I'd appreciate it. My budget is $700-$800



By the way I currently have a 46 in Samsung LNT4671F and also have a wii, ps3, xbox 360. I don't currently have a surround sound system.


----------



## studdad

Hey Everyone,


Last year I purchased some speakers from AV123. I bought a pair of their x-ls bookshelf speakers, the x-cs center, and the x-sub. I decided I wanted to put these in the family room and buy some new ones for the living room. I was happy with the x series and went back to purchase their upgraded Encore series, but they have just disco'd them.


The Encore 3.1 setup would have cost me about $750, but I am willing to pay up to $1,000 for a 3.1 setup that will be primarily used with a HT. The speakers will be hooked up to a Yamaha 1800 AVR. It would also be a big plus if the speakers came in a light (in color) wood enclosure. It would be a plus if the Sub matched (enclosure), but not absolutely necessary. My main concern is that the sound quality from the speakers and sub are AT LEAST as good as the quality from the Encores, and hopefully better if they cost more.


thanks in advance for suggestions.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Does anyone have any idea how to hook-up a Dayton Sub? I have a "Subwoofer out" purple connector on the back of my HK 146, but then look at the back of the subwoofer http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-SUB-100...3960346&sr=8-4







I see the speaker connection, but i don't really feel like running that many cables all over the place. I also see some type of RCA double connection, would i need an adapter for that?


----------



## afrogt

I have a Dayton sub. You can get a Y adapter which is very inexpensive or just run a single RCA cable to the left or right input. Either way will work. it'll be about 3db louder by using the Y adapter though.


Should cost you no more than $5 at Radio Shack, home depot or lowes. Doesn't need to be Monster brand either.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 


This one is 13ft long and you don't need an adapter. its a long Y cable for less than $2.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=189-300


----------



## Kingcarcas

How do you like it? I was also looking at the Polk PSW10 since it'll match the rest of my system







Thanks.


----------



## afrogt

The Dayton is a pretty good sub, nothing special. Good for the price which was $99 shipped when I bought it a few years ago during the holidays. Its a good low budget sub.


Honestly, I wouldn't get the Dayton or Polk PSW10 if you have $150 or more. The low end Polk subs really aren't that good. Fry's has the Velodyne VX-10 for $149 today and I'd pick that up instead. Or if today is too soon, Vanns has it for $169 shipped, which is only $7 more after you pay tax at Fry's.


Or also look at the Energy ESW-10 which is $170 shipped on Amazon. I have an older model Energy 10" sub and they're much more musical than the Dayton. Either the Velodyne or Energy would be better than the Polk or Dayton.


----------



## afrogt

Now if you want a good budget Dayton sub, look at this model. Designed by Dr Hsu it goes deeper than the Velodyne or Energy sub.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-392 


But shipping is $59 to SoCal.


----------



## GoDuckss

Looking for a budget system, HTIB I guess if its upgradeable. dont care if its 2.1 for now for I want the best bang for the buck and can always upgrade. Looking for something that sounds good for not only movies but the stereo/cd's. Would like a reciever/speakers/and CD player. Do not at this time have a blue ray or DVD player worth a crap either so if possible would like that too, if works as CD player then dont need that either. What are my best bets for around a grand?? I've heard the avs systems are good and reasonabley priced also the Yambeka 5-speaker system. But as I said I dont need the 5.1 as of yet unless it fits in the budget. Would rather spend more on two speakers and a center. Would also like to add 2 speakers on another channel for the patio, nothing fancy just so have music there for BBQ darts etc... Thanks guys


If it helps have a 61A650 on the way and Time warner HD/DVR,

Old school Pioneer Reciever

thats about it everything else is junk.


Thanks again!!


----------



## TommyboyCAN

Here is my HTIB alternative.


I took the plunge and did this for my 7.1 setup


Receiver - SR606B (300)

Fronts - Energy C-100 and C-C100 for left/right/center (300)

Surrounds - 4xKlipsch SS.5 (200)

Sub - Cadence CSX-12 (200)


I'm pretty happy with this combo for about a grand. Sounds great so far but I've done nothing but just mount the speakers and hook them up and just run some music through them. I get the projector for the room today so I plan on playing with that tonight.


Anyone have any comments or anything to watch out for with this setup?


----------



## samsurd2

Very interested to get your take on the Cadence CSX-12 since I'm considering buying one. Regarding Cadence, was the CSX-12 in stock or did you have to wait for it? If you had to wait, how long was the delay? TIA


----------



## TommyboyCAN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/15004596
> 
> 
> Very interested to get your take on the Cadence CSX-12 since I'm considering buying one. Regarding Cadence, was the CSX-12 in stock or did you have to wait for it? If you had to wait, how long was the delay? TIA



I got the CSX-12 3 days after I ordered it from their ebay store so no wait.


In terms of initial impression it really pumps. I am going from a crappy Yamaha HTIB which has a small sub so compared to that it literally blows it away. Might knock it over if I put it close enough.


My first impression when I opened the box, I was blown away by the sheer size and weight of the thing, it is really massive. But pumps massive sound to go with it.


----------



## samsurd2

^^Many thanks.


----------



## Hail Leroy

Hi all,


I've been reading through these forums for a few weeks now and haven't found a better resource for HT knowledge. I'm in the process of finishing my basement and it will be my man cave that I get to outfit with all the electronics I can fit into my budget. I'm set on most of the pieces already, but wanted to get some advice on speaker/sound kit. I had locked in on the Onkyo TX SR606, but have recently seen some of the Onkyo HTiB sets advertised (HT-S5100B etc) that have caught my eye. I'm either going with the Panny TH-50PZ800U or the PZ85U with a PS3 for video (I also already have a Toshiba HD-DVD that I'll probably throw on there for kicks). Again, my thought was the SR606 coupled with a 5.1 setup (Mirage Nanosat or Klipsch Synergy Quintet were the ones I was strongly considering). This is going to be primarily for video as opposed to music, though I'll probably hook up an iPod dock at some point as well


Right now, it looks like I can get the SR606 for $350 (Amazon) with the Mirage setup for $500. I don't want to go over that combined $850 - which is why a lot of these HTiBs are attractive. FWIW, the room that I'm outfitting is on 13' deep, so I don't have as much depth as some (width is 17, give or take)


So, long way of getting to it, but the question is am I looking in the right direction with the ones I'm considering, what am I missing, what kind of mistakes am I making? In a nutshell, what do you recommend for a first timer like me?


Thanks for all of the insight guys!


----------



## Nynefingers

I just bought a PS3, which will be used more for Blu-Ray than for games. Now that I have a Blu-Ray player, I am ready to replace my ancient, cobbled together 3.0 setup from back when I was living on a college budget, living in apartments, and moving every year.



What I have:


Sony KSD-60a3000

PS3

Xbox 360

I'll also be upgrading to digital cable soon, so I'll have lots more HD programming


My room (living room/kitchen) is approximately 22'x25', but opens directly into the entryway and formal dining room too. The acoustics are going to be far from ideal, although I should be able to at least get the speaker locations about right. I don't know anything about room treatments, but if there are visually unobtrusive changes I can make to improve the acoustics, I don't mind doing it.


I do have a couple of nice 15" subwoofers in storage. I am not opposed to building an enclosure and picking up a cheap plate amp to use one of them. They are car audio speakers, but were designed for ported applications. I modeled a large, low tuned box for one a long time ago and it should produce a good flat response down to 20 Hz, but at the cost of possibly being visually unappealing due to the size. They are rated at 1200 watts RMS. I use them in my car with a 32 Hz tuning frequency and I really like the sound. I'll see if I can dig up the T/S specs on them later.



What I want:


I'd like a full 7.1 sound system that is capable of taking full advantage of the capabilities of Blu-Ray. It doesn't have to be the best of the best. It doesn't have to compete with the Warren Theater in Moore, OK [ http://www.warrentheatres.com/Moore.pdf ]. (If you're in the OKC area, check it out...THX sound and 2k digital projection on every screen.) It just has to sound good for a reasonable cost. My budget is flexible, but I'm looking for somewhere in the $1000 price range for receiver, speakers, and wiring.



I've seen a lot of talk about the Onkyo TX-SR606. It sounds like a good starting point for me. I'm certainly open to other options, though. It is currently $350 at Amazon, which would leave around $650 or so to work with. If a little more $ would make a substantial difference in sound quality, I'm all for that. Likewise, if a small sacrifice in sound would mean a big savings, that might be OK too.


I know virtually nothing about home theater speakers. I don't even really know where to start looking. I read the beginning of this thread, but I didn't read far because the info seemed to be a little old. I would very much appreciate some suggestions, either on what to buy or even just on where to start looking.


Thanks!


----------



## sarahd

Denon® DHT-588BA 5.1 Channel Home Theater System is available at Big Lots for $350. Look under previous deal of the day. Not the best available but for 3.5 Bens it is not bad.


----------



## Nynefingers

So much for piecing together a system. I just pulled the trigger on the Onkyo HT-S7100, refurbished, from ShopOnkyo.com for $430.10 shipped to my door. I was expecting to spend $350 just for the receiver, so I figured $80 more for the speakers and stands is a bargain. Of course, the refurbished receiver is $305 shipped, so I guess it's really $125 more, but it's still too cheap to pass up. I'll probably use the packaged speakers for a while, then consider upgrading them later on.


----------



## samsurd2

JMO and definitely not a flame but...since you said you had a budget of about $1000, you probably could have done better, particularly for speakers and a subwoofer.


----------



## Nynefingers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/15079563
> 
> 
> JMO and definitely not a flame but...since you said you had a budget of about $1000, you probably could have done better, particularly for speakers and a subwoofer.



I definitely agree, but for $430 I probably could not have done much better. As I said, I had been expecting to spend $350 on the receiver anyway. I plan to get everything set up with the included speakers and sub and use them for a while, then upgrade the speakers and sub later. It may be 3 months, it may be a year and three months. It just depends on how I feel about the speakers once it is set up. By doing it this way, I buy myself some time to think about speakers and I may end up being able to budget more money for speakers and/or room treatment at a later time. Whenever I do upgrade, I should be able to sell off the speakers and recover the extra money spent too. I think that it is probably the best way for me to go for my needs.


----------



## samsurd2

Sounds like you've got a plan...enjoy.


----------



## Air Supply

hey guys, what's the cheapest receiver available right now that can process truehd? refurb units are okay with him....


----------



## Tulpa

Probably a refurbed Onkyo TX-SR605.

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp...i_sku=38607351 


It's an older version of Onkyo's current entry level TrueHD receiver, the TX-SR606. Not sure what the Yamaha equivalent would be.


----------



## afrogt

Onkyo 606 refurb for $299 from accessories4less on ebay. With Microsoft live.com 25% discount it comes to $225. $40 shipping bring its back to $265. Shipping could be less depending where you live.


606 has 4 HDMI inputs vs 2 on the 605.


----------



## Air Supply

how about the denon 788 or harman kardon 247?


----------



## Tulpa

Yeah, those wouldn't be bad, either. I think all of those receivers are more alike than they are different, so whatever works. I'm partial to Onkyo, but I wouldn't mind having the others (although I think H/K's tutone finish looks weird when few other components match it.)


Sony probably has a model, too.


----------



## Air Supply

Say, I have the Denon 788 or HK 247. Is there any type of blu-ray player that I need to get. I don't want a PS3, and I see a sharp on sale at sears for $179. Would that work. I just want to make sure my combo will put out the HD Sound.


Thanks dudes.


----------



## afrogt

You just need a Blu Ray player that decodes TrueHD and DTS-HD internally and passes it as multichannel PCM. The Sharp BD-HP21U at Sears will do this. You won't get a TrueHD light on your receiver though since neither the 247 or 788 have decoding for HD sources or a TrueHD led display.


Before you buy the Blu Ray from Sears, make sure Sharp offers firmware updates. Inevitably, these players will require them to fix bugs or add enhancements later.


Update: It does look like Sharp does offer firmware updates for their BD players.


----------



## Air Supply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/15113626
> 
> 
> You just need a Blu Ray player that decodes TrueHD and DTS-HD internally and passes it as multichannel PCM. The Sharp BD-HP21U at Sears will do this. You won't get a TrueHD light on your receiver though since neither the 247 or 788 have decoding for HD sources or a TrueHD led display.
> 
> 
> Before you buy the Blu Ray from Sears, make sure Sharp offers firmware updates. Inevitably, these players will require them to fix bugs or add enhancements later.
> 
> 
> Update: It does look like Sharp does offer firmware updates for their BD players.



But, with those receivers. I'll get truhd sound right? I just need to get a receiver that's NOT a HDMI passthrough or HDMI switch?


What are the benifits of having the truhd light? Just to let you know when it's working? I would hope that my ears would tell me if it's working or not.










Sorry, I'm very new to this.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Air Supply* /forum/post/15113735
> 
> 
> But, with those receivers. I'll get truhd sound right? I just need to get a receiver that's NOT a HDMI passthrough or HDMI switch?



If your player only sends TrueHD through HDMI, the receiver needs HDMI audio. If the player also has analog multi-channel outputs, the receiver only needs the analog multi-channel inputs (most if not all HDMI passthrough/switching receivers do have these, as well as just about every HDMI audio receiver. Heck, my non-HDMI anything receiver has them.)



> Quote:
> What are the benifits of having the truhd light? Just to let you know when it's working? I would hope that my ears would tell me if it's working or not.



TrueHD vs. ordinary Dolby Digital is probably subtle at best, but if your ears are sensitive enough, you may hear something. The TrueHD display on the receiver just lets you know the receiver is doing the decoding.


The PS3, btw, doesn't have the option of bitstreaming TrueHD. It has to decode and send it as PCM, so even if you had a TrueHD decoding receiver, the light still won't display in that setup. Most other Blu-Ray players bitstream, IIRC.


But whether the player or the receiver does the decoding makes no sonic difference.


----------



## Air Supply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/15114764
> 
> 
> If your player only sends TrueHD through HDMI, the receiver needs HDMI audio. If the player also has analog multi-channel outputs, the receiver only needs the analog multi-channel inputs (most if not all HDMI passthrough/switching receivers do have these, as well as just about every HDMI audio receiver. Heck, my non-HDMI anything receiver has them.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TrueHD vs. ordinary Dolby Digital is probably subtle at best, but if your ears are sensitive enough, you may hear something. The TrueHD display on the receiver just lets you know the receiver is doing the decoding.
> 
> 
> The PS3, btw, doesn't have the option of bitstreaming TrueHD. It has to decode and send it as PCM, so even if you had a TrueHD decoding receiver, the light still won't display in that setup. Most other Blu-Ray players bitstream, IIRC.
> 
> 
> But whether the player or the receiver does the decoding makes no sonic difference.



I hate to ask the most simple questions but this is all new to me.


Could you just take a look at the two items and tell me if they will work together. I just want to be 100% sure before I order this this afternoon.


BD30 Blueray http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us 



Denon 788 http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3641.asp 


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tulpa

TrueHD would be possible with analog connections (only 5.1, though, as I think the Panasonic player only does 5.1 for its analog out), but the more I look at the Denon the more I wonder if an Onkyo 606 or 605 would be better for the price (TrueHD over HDMI.)


----------



## boatdude

Hi all-


I need some help with my system set-up. I have a matched set of older Boston Acoustics from F/C/R (VR950s for the front main, VR 920 for the center). The size of the center has been causing me a challenge because I have the Sony LCD sitting on a media console and like the look versus wall mounting. The center blocks part of the screen and is so deep that even if I raise the TV up it will still look awful.


So, I have been considering a new center, but am unsure what to do about tonal matching, since I don't really want to and don't really have the budget to replace the entire front stage. At the same time, it appears my rear surrounds are dead, and need to be replaced (this is definitely not an amp issue).


With all that said, I have been seriously considering just going to an Onkyo HT-S7100 to replace the whole set-up, including Denon 3805. I can't decide if this is the right thing to do, but like the idea of upgrading the amp to new tech, getting a 7.1 system all at once, and living with the sound downgrade.


In the alternative, if I can figure out how to do it, I'd love to get the 920 in play, and just replace the surrounds. Any advice on how to fix the LCD/center problem, and what surrounds to get if I do that? Any thoughts on just going to the 7100 altogether?


Thanks for the help!

Alex


----------



## afrogt

Any way to mount the VR 920 above the TV? Either on the wall or the top shelf of your media center, if there is one?


If not, how about running a phantom center? Set your center to NONE on your receiver and let the VR 950's

handle all the dialog.


----------



## boatdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/15117948
> 
> 
> Any way to mount the VR 920 above the TV? Either on the wall or the top shelf of your media center, if there is one?
> 
> 
> If not, how about running a phantom center? Set your center to NONE on your receiver and let the VR 950's
> 
> handle all the dialog.



No shelf, and the thing weighs like 40 pounds. Does phantom center really work? Never tried it before.


----------



## afrogt

yes phantom center works. Give it a try, it cost you nothing.


----------



## boatdude

So, what about something for surrounds? Do I need to stick to the Boston line, or can I go elsewhere?


----------



## Tulpa

Surrounds just have to match each other, not necessarily the fronts.


If you're a stickler for matching sound all around, you might consider matching to the fronts, but in film soundtracks, surrounds don't see anywhere near the info of the fronts, and mostly just ambiance and the occasional effect, so the tonal mismatch probably won't be noticeable. If you do want to match them, the tweeter is generally considered most critical.


If you listen to stuff like DVD-A or SACD, though, you might consider matching all speakers around.


----------



## pattersonrobert

I am setting up a home theater. I am replacing an old Sony AR, probably with an Onkyo 606. I now have a Bpse Acoustimass speaker system (non-powered bass module and three front wall mounted array speakers). My wife likes the small size and color of the Bose arrays in "her" living room.


My first question is will the Bose speakers do justice to the new AR, or should I start from scratch?


My second question relates to heat from the Onkyo. Ideally, it would be housed in an enclosed cabinet. Can that work?


Finally, if I keep the Bose speakers, what should I add for rear surround speakers?


All advice appreciated.


----------



## palehorse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pattersonrobert* /forum/post/15208654
> 
> 
> I am setting up a home theater. I am replacing an old Sony AR, probably with an Onkyo 606. I now have a Bpse Acoustimass speaker system (non-powered bass module and three front wall mounted array speakers). My wife likes the small size and color of the Bose arrays in "her" living room.
> 
> 
> My first question is will the Bose speakers do justice to the new AR, or should I start from scratch?
> 
> 
> My second question relates to heat from the Onkyo. Ideally, it would be housed in an enclosed cabinet. Can that work?
> 
> 
> Finally, if I keep the Bose speakers, what should I add for rear surround speakers?
> 
> 
> All advice appreciated.



If you absolutely positively have to keep the Bose (blech) speakers, I'd use them as rears and find a way to convince your wife that you need much larger (better) front stage speakers.


If you stick with using them as a front stage, they'll never do justice to that beautiful Onkyo AVR...


As for the cabinet/heat issue, can't you just cut a hole in the backside of the cabinet itself? Or will the wife not let you do that either?


----------



## Air Supply

I went with the Yambeka 5 speaker set ($250 shipped) and a TAD Subwoofer ($97 shipped) and a Yamaha V661 Receiver (198 shipped). So, $545 for a pretty amazing system!


----------



## DW Rutledge

we're moving into a new house next week, and i have my heart set on a 7.1 system. Currently I have a Onkyo TX-SR573 (will do 6.1 in a 7.1 setup). For speakers, I have 4 crappy HTIB speakers I bought 10+ years ago for L/R and satellites. I also have this center:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1172277277875 


and a sony powered sub.


I'm considering an Onkyo 606 and I need a set of speakers. I'm thinking I might get a 5 speaker set (like a Quintet II or Polk RM6750), use the four small speakers for satellites in a 7.1 setup, and continue using my L/R speakers for now. eventually, i want to get floor-standing speakers for the L/R channels. However, I'm worried about matching floor-standers to the center in the Quintet II.


1. How do I "match" speakers?

2. Any recos on what would go with a Quintet II or RM6750 center?


----------



## Audio_Newbies

I need some help. I wasn't sure how up to date the recommendations are on the first page.


I'm planning on getting the Onkyo TX SR706 7.1 reciever ($500). I am planning on building a 5.1 system over time. I may or may not upgrade to 7.1 but at least I have that option. The usage will be mainly for games and Blu Ray movies. The source for both will be a PS3.


Right now I need two front speakers, a center, and possibly a sub. This is for a desktop configuration for a room roughly 10' x 15' in size. I really have no idea where to begin, I'm a complete audio newbie.


Please keep these 3 things in mind.


Budget: $700-$800 The rears I will be getting later on so they do not play into this budget. The sub I may also get later on depending on recommendations. However with that said if I can go under budget I am much happier.


Size: This is for a desktop configuration. I do not have much desktop space so the speakers will need to be small. The front speakers cannot be more than 6" in height, 4" in length, and 3" in depth. The center speaker cannot be larger than roughly 7" in length, 5" in height, and 3" in depth.


For the sub, the only room I will have is under the desk against a corner of the wall. The sub cannot be higher than 10.75". Perhaps I may not need it if the sound from the fronts and center are adequete?


Quality: I need small speakers, but I do not wish to compromise quality as far as I can within my budget.


For the most part the volumne will be set on low-medium.


Thanks...


----------



## schooby

Hey all,

I've been lurking for a while, reading everybody's opinions and advice on a new system. I'm looking to put one of my own together and would appreciate any advice/thoughts on what I've got lined up.

I had originally almost bought a Onkyo HT-S9100THX HTIB, but after reading this thread I'm going to take the plunge and piece my own together.

Requirements: A system that will handle DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc from a PS3, HD-DVD player, and AppleTV outputing to an LG 1080p LCD TV. 7.1 preferred to be able to make full use of the HD DTS and Dolby. My living room is about 12-15' x 18-20'.


Components I'm settling on at this point:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR706 $490 at Amazon

L/R: Polk RTi A5 (pair) $380 at Polk's Authorize Refurb store on Ebay

C: Polk CSi A4 (single) $280 at Amazon

Sub: Bic/Acoustech H-100 $230 on Ebay (authorized seller store)

Surround: Klipsch SS.5 x4 $199 for all 4 on Amazon


This puts the cost ~1500 before cables/shipping/tax which is stretching my budget. The one thing I'm hesitant about is whether the Klipsch are appropriate as Surround for the L/C/R speakers. I could go with Polk FXi surrounds, but they're a bit pricier than the Klipsch (even if I could get refurbed FXi).


The other thought I entertained was to take a step down and go with Polk Monitor 50s with the comparable matched center (C3 ?). This would cut the cost down, but I'm thinking somewhat of longevity and someday moving it into a larger room (if I ever move).


Anyone have thoughts or alternatives to this setup? Is this a decent setup or could I improve it for the same cost?


Thanks!


----------



## Bones82

So I am set on my sub with a BIC H-100. So now I am looking for a receiver. I doubt I need 7.1 at this point unless the receiver just comes with it. I most watch standard movis through the Oppo 980H. I have Dish so I'm not exactly sure what it broadcasts. I do not play games. Receiver suggestions? I currently have a Sony Str-DG710. I would definitely like an upgrade from that.


----------



## Tulpa

7.1 receivers can be set to do 5.1.


You really can't go wrong with any of the popular receiver makers. Onkyo, Yamaha, Harmon-Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer, and Denon. There are others, but those tend to be budget minded with good features. You can also stick with Sony. I'm not a huge fan, but the better receivers aren't terrible.


If you want an HDMI audio receiver, Onkyo's TX-SR606 is a good buy, and can go with you if you upgrade to Blu-Ray. It's considered a good balance between the cheaper but limited lesser receivers with no HDMI audio and the more expensive receivers with features like preouts for external amps, things you may not use.


The other makers have their equivalents to the 606, so you don't have to just look at Onkyo, although it is a favorite.


----------



## JDEATON

I’m trying to save a buddy of mine from going for a HTIB system. Any thoughts on the following. I’ve searched but have not found any comments of BIC speakers other than subs.


BIC AMERICA DV-52CLRB Center

BIC AMERICA DV52SIB L+R

BIC AMERICA DV52SIB Surrounds

BIC AMERICA F12 Sub

Onkyo TX-SR606


All of the above for about $750.


The alternative might be the Onkyo HT-S7001 HTIB


Thanks for your comments.


----------



## Tulpa

Bic's Acoustech series is well respected. Dunno about their other lines (although the non-Acoustech subs weren't as good as the Acoustech lines. But it might be different now.)


The speaker forum has plenty to say about Bic speakers.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Hey guys, i just ordered the Velodyne VX-10 sub, i'm not sure how to go about the cables. Is this what i need?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=181-644 
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=240-125


----------



## Tulpa

Yeah, those would work. You don't NEED the y-splitter, as either sub input would work, but if you want you can get it.


I'd look at Monoprice or Blue Jeans Cable first, though. $20 for a sub cable is pricey when you can get it for $3.52.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## Kingcarcas

Yah i love monoprice i just wasn't sure what type of cable it was, Thanks so much!


----------



## LV_Audiophile1

Ok, so i'm putting together my first seperates system.


I'm on a really tight budget as i just bought my first house


I just picked up a pair of Polk Rc55i's (for $50 bucks, brand new)


I also bought a Polk DSW Pro 400 (for $270, floor model)


I was looking at getting the TSi CS10 so that everything would be timbre matched.


Is this a good center speaker?


Any other suggestions in that price range ($200) that would be better?


Thanks for the input!!!


----------



## svoa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdizzle* /forum/post/9888738
> 
> 
> If all i had initially was a receiver and 2 speakers, how much different would it sound from the stereo speakers on my tv? I'm new to the HT world so I don't know that much about audio. This will be my first surround sound system btw. I was big on having a hdmi switching receiver, but now the only thing i'm concerned with is the truehd and dtshd (probably way out the range of htib'ers)
> 
> 
> Great thread btw. I always hear people say don't go HTIB because they suck, then turn around and recommend something 2x the price and say i'll be happier in the long run. I doubt id be happier when my lights get cut off in the process. Hopefully this will get stickied and become very informative



I'm in the same boat here....

We are looking to buy our first real audio system. We have VERY low-tech devices at the moment, and this will be the first major purchase in the high-tech area.

Personnally, good audio for music-listening is most important, good audio for movie-viewing is second-string. We are back-and-forth on our decision to buy the Onkyo ht-s7100 HTiB, mostly due to the speaker quality. Is it a good idea to get the Onkyo 606 receiver and get two really good towers instead?? We may eventually get a PS3 and are looking into an LCD TV, but we really want good sound from our digital music files.

How important is it to have a gazillion speakers? Can two really good towers give great sound and can the Onkyo 606 handle two good towers?

THANKS!!!


----------



## sparkysko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *svoa* /forum/post/15413922
> 
> 
> Is it a good idea to get the Onkyo 606 receiver and get two really good towers instead?? We may eventually get a PS3 and are looking into an LCD TV, but we really want good sound from our digital music files.
> 
> How important is it to have a gazillion speakers? Can two really good towers give great sound and can the Onkyo 606 handle two good towers?
> 
> THANKS!!!



Most of the tower speakers I've been looking at support 'bi-amping' and the Onkyo 606 supports bi-amping as well. You can double the input power to each speaker, and sacrifice the rear channels. (Turns into maximum of 5.1 from 7.1)


----------



## LA_Sportsman

I just finished reading the last years worth of posts in this thread. Polk seems to be a favorite and I agree but most of the recommended systems from Fry's are no longer available. Here's my situation.


I'm looking for a short-term system to cover a small HT room. This will be replaced in a year when I move and build a higher end system. The current setup will then be moved to a bedroom.


* Pioneer 1018 on order, already shipped by 6ave.

* Klipsch Synergy IIIs on order from Amazon but backordered and can still be canceled.

* Considering the HSU STF-1 or STF-2 for the sub


My biggest question is since I'm looking at this as a short-term solution, is there a better option than the Klipsh at $300?


I've listened to tons of speakers in big boxes but the problem is finding the right setup. I like the higher end speakers in the Synergy series but haven't been able to listen to the Synergy IIIs. I have inspected them and like that they are solidly built and have a mount built in for wall mounting or setting on a cabinet.


I've read the general complaints about brightness but I expect tradeoffs at this pricepoint. Too many reviews slam speakers, including Polk, because they don't perform like higher end speakers. I expect $300 to $500 sound, not $1500 sound. This was a last minute decision to wait on higher end speakers until I moved so I jumped on the Synergy sale without a lot of research on lower end Klipsch.


Any advice? I figure I have a day or two where I can still cancel the Synergy IIIs. I'll go out again today and see if I can find a set to listen to.


----------



## samsurd2

JMO but for the same money you might look at 4 Polk Audio R150 bookshelf speakers plus a Polk Audio timbre matched CSR center speaker on Crutchfield. The speakers are larger than the Klipsch Synergy III's but that means they get to lower frequency. The may mean better integration with your sub when you set up your crossover frequency. The 3 dB roll off frequency for these are 65 Hz for the R150's and 60 Hz for the CSR compared to the corresponding Klipsch numbers of 110 Hz and 120 Hz. Full disclosure...I own the Polks and am very pleased with them. Like I said JMO.


----------



## LA_Sportsman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/15424353
> 
> 
> JMO but for the same money you might look at 4 Polk Audio R150 bookshelf speakers plus a Polk Audio timbre matched CSR center speaker on Crutchfield. The speakers are larger than the Klipsch Synergy III's but that means they get to lower frequency. The may mean better integration with your sub when you set up your crossover frequency. The 3 dB roll off frequency for these are 65 Hz for the R150's and 60 Hz for the CSR compared to the corresponding Klipsch numbers of 110 Hz and 120 Hz. Full disclosure...I own the Polks and am very pleased with them. Like I said JMO.



Spent this afternoon at a local Circuit City and Best Buy and was able to listen to Klipsh Quintet SL and a variety of Polks. I just canceled the Quintet IIIs from Amazon so I'm starting over.


I need to dig through Polk's official site. Right now I'm confused by a variety of speakers that seem to be the same with different model numbers. I looked at an M10 at CC and a T15 at BB that seemed to be the exact same bookshelf speaker and while I haven't seen a R150 the M10 and T15 seem to be the same speaker except that the R150 is rear ported. If the R150 si the same, I will be pleased. Also listened to TSI100's and like them and Monitor's that I wasn't as pleased but I know it could have been the source connection.


I am not concerned with size although I have less flexibility now than I will when I buy a house in the summer. Wife is fully on board so WAF is good to go.


Are the monitor's an inferior line?


Best Buy as a deal with a free PSW10 with any set of Polk's greater than $500 but I was less than impressed with the subwoofer. Keeping my options open.


----------



## LA_Sportsman

I've found the R150's and CSR at a good deal that leaves me money for the HSU TS1 or TS2 sub. Before I buy, is the Monitor 40 and 30 combo worth the slight jump in cost?


Can the R150's be wall mounted with the rear port? I believe they have the keyhole on the back but I thought rear ported speakers were supposed to have a significant stand-off?


----------



## 4North1Side2

What alternative do I have to the Onkyo HT-S9100THX HTIB? I don't want to spend more than $750. Any help and links would be very appreciated.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LA_Sportsman* /forum/post/15427407
> 
> 
> I've found the R150's and CSR at a good deal that leaves me money for the HSU TS1 or TS2 sub. Before I buy, is the Monitor 40 and 30 combo worth the slight jump in cost?
> 
> 
> Can the R150's be wall mounted with the rear port? I believe they have the keyhole on the back but I thought rear ported speakers were supposed to have a significant stand-off?



Don't know about the Monitor 40s but I did listen to the Monitor 30s and R150s side-by-side. I couldn't tell the difference but then my ears are AARP certified.







The Monitor 30s go a few Hertz lower and are slightly larger than the R150s (which is why I went with the R150 - size constraints). BTW, the R150s don't have a keyhole on the back and do need a little stand-off. This isn't a problem in my set-up since they are placed in/on bookshelves. Finally, I think the CSR will work with Monitor series speakers but IIRC the CS1 is timbre matched center speaker that Polk suggests.


----------



## LA_Sportsman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/15431322
> 
> 
> Don't know about the Monitor 40s but I did listen to the Monitor 30s and R150s side-by-side. I couldn't tell the difference but then my ears are AARP certified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Monitor 30s go a few Hertz lower and are slightly larger than the R150s (which is why I went with the R150 - size constraints). BTW, the R150s don't have a keyhole on the back and do need a little stand-off. This isn't a problem in my set-up since they are placed in/on bookshelves. Finally, I think the CSR will work with Monitor series speakers but IIRC the CS1 is timbre matched center speaker that Polk suggests.



My ears are about the same from time on Navy ships and around Marine Corps booms!










I'm considering M10's from Circuit City because of front port and keyhold. What is the matching center?


CSM is a 4 ohm speaker. CS1 is backordered but will it match ? I can also pick up a CSR online if that's the match.


----------



## samsurd2

Try going to the horse's mouth - give Polk a call and ask them.


----------



## wildcat0124

I recently purchased the samsung HT-AS720ST and have mixed feelings about the system. By no means am I an audiophile, however the sound isn't doing it for me - it's missing that punch, and the sub seems lacking - i feel it's muffled. After trying to tweek the settings for days, I've decided to send it back to the store and build my own. From reading the threads here (i've exhausted myself attempting to browse through most of it) i'm sure I can build something louder and with much better sound and bass.


I'm set on the receiver: Onkyo TX-SR606


I'm completely in the dark about the speakers and sub. The room isn't huge, somewhere around 10x20 and I'd like sats to hang up on the wall (hopefully similar to the size of the sammy speakers on the AS720). excluding the receiver, i'm looking to spend no more than $600 for the speakers and sub. I've got a ps3 and HD DVR hooked up to a 52" sammy LCD. I'm interested in building the system for movies, music and ps3 gaming.


Does anyone have suggestions for which speakers to go with? I'm not particularly set on any brand - just a set that sounds great.


As for the sub - the room isn't huge, I'd like to go with an 8" sub - no bigger than 10 and want something that hits well and doesn't have that muffle sound - but doesn't break the bank. Can anybody recommend a sub that fits that criteria?


I'd appreciate any feedback and suggestions you have.


Thanks


----------



## ickysmits

I think Energy C series is one of the best values in that price range, however, I have to admit I've only heard the "RC" and seen the "Take" series up close. That said, Energy gets a lot of good reviews here and the build quality on even the lowest end "Take" speakers is pretty nice IMO.


Take a look at these if you want something compact:

Two pair of Energy C-50 ($70 pair=$140): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...0%20%20%20PBLK 

Energy CC50 ($90): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENCC50 

8" Energy sub ($90): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENESW8 


To mount the surrounds on the wall you'd need a pair of THESE for $50. They'd be bigger than those samsung speakers on the wall, but they're not too big and they'd be so much better. I think the whole thing would cost about $400 with shipping. Alternatives could be the bigger 10" sub for an extra $100 or you could look into the popular budget BIC H100 sub on eBay or HSU research has a $300 sub, but I get the feeling you're not interested in that.


Even though the C-50 is a smallish speaker with a 4 1/2 woofer, it will definitely give you a better punch than the tiny 2 1/2 cones and passive subwoofer on the Samsung, which is not even remotely famous for speakers.


Another option is to move up to the C-100 speakers up front (and keep the smaller C-50's for surround):

One pair of Energy C-100 ($150): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC100 

Energy C-C100 ($175): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENCC100 

Energy C-50 ($70): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...0%20%20%20PBLK 

8" Energy sub - though ($90): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENESW8 


That should take you up to around $550 with the wall mounts. Yes, the fronts would be a bit bigger but I think you might appreciate the C-100 speakers more if you like to listen to music in stereo, 2.1, and you'd get a much richer sound all around.


The other website to compare Energy prices and whatnot is: http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 

You can see some good package deals in your budget if you want to consider floorstanding speakers. However, it just seems odd to match the 6 1/2 woofer on the C-300 floorstanding speaker with a 4 1/2 center speaker in those packages. I would think there would be a sonic difference when the sound in a movie is moving from the left to the center and then the right speaker. I personally would rather have the same speaker all the way across the front. But check it out, it good to compare between the two websites.


----------



## snaphook

Would the Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 be a good choice for a small basement HT set up? I see them on ebay from time to time around 200 bucks shipped, some a little higher.


Right now I have a little kawasaki surround system that is low low budget along with an old JBl 6inch powered sub that my neighboor gave me. Now that I have my 61" DLP and theater chairs I need to upgrade the sound. I'm cruising craigslist for a solid AVR, bunch of older Yamaha's on there.


Or since I hope to be in a new house in a year or two I almost pulled the trigger on the Panasonic SC BT100 refurbed for 430 bucks. I know HTIB are kind of frowned upon but that would get me a BR player right now and I'm sure it would be a HUGE improvement over my current set up. Then if my house ever sells and I get my real HT room I could move the panny to the bedroom HDTV and pick out my own gear for the new HT room.


I'm really tempted on the panny.... but I also like the fun of picking out seperate gear. I'm just not sure I can beat the 430 price. Any advice? I did look at the energy speakers in the above post they look like a great value as well.


I have 430 bucks of fun money right now that I won in fantasy football so I'm tyring to stick around that price range. My b-day is coming up in march so I could get speakers and an AVR now and wait until my b-day in march to get a seperate BR player. I'm new to HT (besides the junk I've had in the past) but I've been a car audio guy for years.


----------



## L54

I am replacing a sony htib from 1999, so I guess you can say I am new to home theater. I would like to get a system for my small living room (10' x 13')that would be capable of a larger space when I move into a house. I found some possible setups while looking through this thread but am unsure how the following setups would be and wanted some advice.

For receivers I have narrowed it down to Pioneer 1018, Yamaha 663, and Onkyo 706. I believe all of these choices play nice with my PS3 and should last for awhile


Speakers:


Polk cs1 center, m50 fronts , and two sets of m30's for rear and surround, and the polk psw10 for sub.


Energy c-c50 center, c50 surrounds and rears, the energy esw10sub and Athena ls 300 for mains


Is it worth $90 to get the energy c 300 speakers instead of the athenas?

Also I worry that the floor standers will be too powerful for the energy center regardless of brand.


Any comments or other suggestions for about $1100 total


----------



## LA_Sportsman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *L54* /forum/post/15552085
> 
> 
> I am replacing a sony htib from 1999, so I guess you can say I am new to home theater. I would like to get a system for my small living room (10' x 13')that would be capable of a larger space when I move into a house. I found some possible setups while looking through this thread but am unsure how the following setups would be and wanted some advice.
> 
> For receivers I have narrowed it down to Pioneer 1018, Yamaha 663, and Onkyo 706. I believe all of these choices play nice with my PS3 and should last for awhile
> 
> 
> Speakers:
> 
> 
> Polk cs1 center, m50 fronts , and two sets of m30's for rear and surround, and the polk psw10 for sub.
> 
> 
> Energy c-c50 center, c50 surrounds and rears, the energy esw10sub and Athena ls 300 for mains
> 
> 
> Is it worth $90 to get the energy c 300 speakers instead of the athenas?
> 
> Also I worry that the floor standers will be too powerful for the energy center regardless of brand.
> 
> 
> Any comments or other suggestions for about $1100 total



I just replaced an 8 yr old Sony HTIB with a similar system to what you're considering. I went with Polk M10s ($89/pr) for fronts and surrounds, a Polk CSR center($99), HSU STF-1 sub ($255), and Pioneer 1018 ($412) for total less than $1,000. I considered the CS1 but couldn't find one in stock.


I built the system from Circuit City, Crutchfields, 6 ave, and HSU direct. THe M10's are a Circuit City model that is identical to Best Buy's T15. The Polk R150's are available online but are rear ported which didn't work for me.


Thoughts:

My room is similar size to yours. I believe I can take this into a slightly larger room but I can also move my front M10's to the rear for a 7.1 and replace the fronts with towers and perhaps a new center. I can't speak directly to the speaker's you are considering.


AVR:

Love the 1018 and it beat the Onkyo and Yamaha on features with comparable specs on everything else. There is a great thread on the 1018. Love the ipod usb connection built in and the MCACC setup is straight forward and tweakable. The 1018 was available for $412 - $450 shipped from a variety of places at Christmas. There is a stock issue right now so the price is higher. It should drop again.


Subwoofer:

I would not recommend the Polk. You do NOT have to match your sub. I listened to a variety of Polk subs and didn't like any of them. I got the HSU STF-1 for less and it's far superior. You can go to the subwoofer forum for advice on subs but there are several internet direct companies that offer great subs. Check out the review on the STF-1 at audioholics.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *L54* /forum/post/15552085
> 
> 
> Speakers:
> 
> 
> Polk cs1 center, m50 fronts , and two sets of m30's for rear and surround, and the polk psw10 for sub.
> 
> 
> Energy c-c50 center, c50 surrounds and rears, the energy esw10sub and Athena ls 300 for mains
> 
> 
> Is it worth $90 to get the energy c 300 speakers instead of the athenas?
> 
> Also I worry that the floor standers will be too powerful for the energy center regardless of brand.
> 
> 
> Any comments or other suggestions for about $1100 total



You'll want your front three speakers to be the same so forget about using the Athena mains along with an Energy center. Speakers have their own subtleties and you might notice that difference in a movie scene where the sound pans from left to center to right speaker, for example. You can use the C-C50 center with the C-300 since they're from the same C series line, but I think the C-C100 would be a better match.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *L54* /forum/post/15552085
> 
> 
> Any comments or other suggestions for about $1100 total



I assume that $1100 budget includes a receiver - so your speaker budget is around $700? Energy is a great value as people are capitalizing on closeout prices right now. It seems like available stock is getting less and less though.


Another great value on speakers that are being closed out is the KEF IQ series.

Front IQ5 ($180x2=$360): http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...kef-iq5-walnut 

Center IQ2C ($100): http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ef-iq2c-walnut 

Surround IQ1 ($200): http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...-iq1-black-ash 


A BIC H100 sub on eBay for around $200 or a $300 HSU or eD sub, along with a receiver, would be somewhere around your $1100 budget and a very nice system. Or opt for bookshelf KEF's to trim some of the cost. Onecall.com also carries KEF to compare price and availability.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *L54* /forum/post/15552085
> 
> 
> 
> Speakers:
> 
> 
> Polk cs1 center, m50 fronts , and two sets of m30's for rear and surround, and the polk psw10 for sub.
> 
> 
> Energy c-c50 center, c50 surrounds and rears, the energy esw10sub and Athena ls 300 for mains
> 
> 
> Is it worth $90 to get the energy c 300 speakers instead of the athenas?
> 
> Also I worry that the floor standers will be too powerful for the energy center regardless of brand.
> 
> 
> Any comments or other suggestions for about $1100 total



Energy speaker package for $399 shipped and then add whatever sub you want.
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 


Getting a similar package with the Athena LS-300 can't be $90 cheaper unless you're getting the Athenas for $160/pr.


----------



## Mixdoctor

I guess I should have paid more attention to this thread. I bought an Onkyo 7100 and while it wasn't bad, in total, it was disappointing sonically. From the get go, I should have just bought a receiver and separate speakers and saved myself some time and effort.


Here is the system I should be ending up with :


Pioneer Elite VSX-03 Receiver

Mirage Omnisat CC

Mirage Omnisats FS

Mirage Omnisat V2


Sub - I am not sure yet.


Total system cost so far: 1,400, which is a far cry from $500 the 7100 cost refurbed, but a lot less than the $3K it would have cost at MSRP.


It just pays to look out for the bargains and you can get a much better system, for in many cases not much more than an HTIB.


Oh.... be on the lookout at ShopOnkyo.com for my returned 7100.


----------



## tanko80

Hello all,new guy here.

I also was looking into buying the Onkyo HT-S7100, mainly due to cost and I wanted something that could handle the HD audio processing. But since the cost has jumped back up to around $700 on average, I've changed my mine and was looking to piece something together for around the same price. I'm looking for some advise or opinions on this as I am a novice with this stuff. This is what I'm planning on getting:


Onkyo 606 - ~$400

Polk RM705 5.1 System - ~$400

Polk TSI100 (plan on using these as my fronts) - ~$150


any advice or opinions would eb graetly appreciated. I would like to keep the cost as close to the s7100 as possible, so my budget including receiver would be ~$1000. What I have now is a PS3, HDDVD hooked up to a 50" Hitachi LCD RP witha Direct TV HD DVR.


----------



## travis33

The Onkyo 606 is a great cheap reciever. I got one for just over $300. There are now other similar recievers in this price range.


For speakers, I'd get a pair of Polk R50s from Frys. ~150

A polk CS10 from Newegg. $150.

Look for some polk R150s or similar polk bookshelfs for rears. Frys usually has them, but not today. If you have the room, you could use the R50s for rears too. They're pretty damn cheap (but not a bad speaker).


Some people will say that the CS10 is not sonically matched to the R50s. This is true. I had the Polk center that was sonically matched to the R50s and it sounded like crap to me (not the lack of matching, but the quality of sound in the vocals). I upgraded to a better Polk center and it was night and day. The deal on the CS10 is a very good one.


----------



## tanko80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *travis33* /forum/post/15694337
> 
> 
> The Onkyo 606 is a great cheap reciever. I got one for just over $300. There are now other similar recievers in this price range.
> 
> 
> For speakers, I'd get a pair of Polk R50s from Frys. ~150
> 
> A polk CS10 from Newegg. $150.
> 
> Look for some polk R150s or similar polk bookshelfs for rears. Frys usually has them, but not today. If you have the room, you could use the R50s for rears too. They're pretty damn cheap (but not a bad speaker).
> 
> 
> Some people will say that the CS10 is not sonically matched to the R50s. This is true. I had the Polk center that was sonically matched to the R50s and it sounded like crap to me (not the lack of matching, but the quality of sound in the vocals). I upgraded to a better Polk center and it was night and day. The deal on the CS10 is a very good one.




the R50s are actuallu $60 a pice right now. I actually found a cheaper 5.1 polk system, the RM6750. now, if I get the r50s, use them as my fronts and get the Polk 5.1 RM6750, or the RM705 (to get the 7.1, which is what I want), will I notice or experience any sound issues? I'm set on the onkyo 606.


----------



## Tulpa

The issue would be the front three, specifically sound that pans from left to center to right. That's why they recommend getting a sonically matching center speaker.


Ideally, the front three should be the same speaker, but often (especially with floorstanders like the R50) the middle will interfere with screen/display placement, so many opt for the horizontal center. The horizontal center is a sonic compromise, but most who go for it consider screen placement more important, and they try to match the center as close as they can.


Using a center from a different series may or may not match. Using from a different brand (especially from a different company) most likely won't match.



The surrounds should match each other, but matching the fronts with the surrounds isn't as critical (although all things being equal, if you can match them, you should.)


It's all about what compromises you're willing to make.


----------



## travis33

Using the RM6750 for surrounds would be fine, as Tulpa said, but I'm not sure about the center.


I got the R300s for fronts (similar to R50s), R150s for rears and a CSR for a center. The CSR is sonically matched to the R300s. It's about a $100 center.


The problem I had was that the vocals from movies would sound like someone was talking through a door. The fronts and rears were fine. So, I finally broke down and got a better center, the un-sonicallly matched CS3 (~$150). It was still a Polk, so I thought it was worth the risk.


It was well worth the gamble. The vocals are finally clear and I can finally hear the detail I was missing, and I'm no audiophile, either. It matched fine with all the other speakers. The moral of the story is don't skimp on the center speaker.


If I were you, I wouldn't get that set because the only useful items are the surrounds. I'd get a nice Polk center to go with the R50s and pick up some Polk surrounds on Ebay or somewhere else. You don't need the surrounds right away. Shop around for a great deal.


For a sub, the BIC was the sub du jour a few months ago for ~$200 from ebay. That one was know to shake your room nicely.


Good Luck.


----------



## shmup-o

Had a few questions about specific speakers, so I moved them to the correct forum!


----------



## kiplingif

I bought a really crappy RCA HTIB last week and decided to do it right. My absolute max budget with shipping and all is $1250. Here is what I came up with a lot of input from a friend:


Reciever: Onkyo TX-SR 606 $397.98

Front L&R: JBL ES30 $249.99

Center: JBL ES25C $159.99

Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100 $249.00 ($30 shipping)

Rear L&R: Energy C-100's $118

Total: $1204.96


Thoughts? This is my first time and I'm a total newbie, so feel free to show your knowledge and ramble  Thanks!


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiplingif* /forum/post/15720615
> 
> 
> I bought a really crappy RCA HTIB last week and decided to do it right. My absolute max budget with shipping and all is $1250. Here is what I came up with a lot of input from a friend:
> 
> 
> Reciever: Onkyo TX-SR 606 $397.98
> 
> Front L&R: JBL ES30 $249.99
> 
> Center: JBL ES25C $159.99
> 
> Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100 $249.00 ($30 shipping)
> 
> Rear L&R: Energy C-100's $118
> 
> Total: $1204.96
> 
> 
> Thoughts? This is my first time and I'm a total newbie, so feel free to show your knowledge and ramble  Thanks!



That’s a decent budget…you really owe it to yourself to get out and listen to some different speakers. Grab a handful of CD’s and go to some places that you’ve researched. There are plenty of options even at the budget level and you’ll be able to sort out the kind of sound you like.


Some online retailers have free shipping both ways if you don’t like them:
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...08,20,250.aspx 
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...09,29,253.aspx 
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...13,20,261.aspx 


Your Energy surrounds from VANNS are a good deal because they’re on closeout – I’d consider the Energy C-100 all around, get a C-C100 on eBay (out of stock everywhere else), and either stick with your BIC sub or look at SVS, HSU, or eD.


Another good value on closeout is the KEF IQ series:
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...kef-iq5-walnut 
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ef-iq2c-walnut 
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...-iq1-black-ash 


…and SVS, a very well regarded sub manufacturer, has a 5.1 system for $999 that gets good reviews: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm 


The Onkyo SR606 was a good value last year, but now it’s way overhyped and there are better receivers (only in my opinion) from Yamaha, Marantz, HK, etc…


Take some time, get into it, and have some fun!


----------



## kiplingif




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/15722286
> 
> 
> Your Energy surrounds from VANNS are a good deal because they're on closeout - I'd consider the Energy C-100 all around, get a C-C100 on eBay (out of stock everywhere else), and either stick with your BIC sub or look at SVS, HSU, or eD.
> 
> 
> The Onkyo SR606 was a good value last year, but now it's way overhyped and there are better receivers (only in my opinion) from Yamaha, Marantz, HK, etc



I feel dumb asking, but if the SR606 was a good value last year, and the price has gone down, wouldn't it be an even better value now? Which receivers would you suggest I look into that cost less than the $400 I can get that for?


And, I'm a bit confused by your advice. Are you suggesting I just get 2 sets of the C-100's and the Center C-100? I was under the impression 3-way speakers were the way to go for the front?


Thank you for the links so far though. I'll look into those and see how I like them  $1250 is the absolute max, but I have no problem getting a great system for less! Haha


----------



## ickysmits

Sorry, I just kind of threw a bunch of stuff out there. I kind of misspoke about the SR606, it’s a pretty good receiver and has plenty of good qualities. There are others and it’s good to get a handle on some of the features that may or may not be important to you. $400 is a good price point to start comparing some of the different models.


First off, do you have a Blu-ray player and is lossless audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc..) important to you?

Some receivers can decode these new audio codecs, some can accept the audio codec after it has been decoded by the Blu-ray player, and some can’t do either. Take a look at this list of these BR players and their audio capabilities to give you an idea about what I’m talking about: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050507 


Now, the SR606 and Yamaha HTR-6160 can decode these lossless audio codecs but it might not matter, for example, if you use a PS3 to watch BR movies because it only sends a decoded signal to the receiver. A lot of BR players decode these audio formats internally.


The Marantz SR4002 and Harman Kardon AVR 247 can’t decode the newer audio codecs but they can accept the decoded signal from the player.


In my opinion audio codecs aren’t the most important consideration when selecting an AVR:

-Does it have enough inputs? (Optical, coaxial, HDMI, etc…)

-Do you care about 7.1 or is 5.1 enough?

-Do you need pre outs so you can add an amplifier someday? (don’t underestimate this option as you might want to get speakers that need more power – the SR606 doesn’t have pre outs)

-Is video upconversion important to you? (some, like the Marantz above, require a component cable in addition to an HDMI cable to see its on screen display and to view non HDMI video sources)

-What are the common issues with the AVR (the SR606 is famous for running hot and I’m not sure about the others)

-Do you like how it looks?


I suggest you read some of the articles in the receiver section, get an idea about what is important to you, and ask some comparison questions. There maybe other good suggestions I'm not aware of.



The JBL speakers could be very good but I just don't know much about them. Three way speakers aren’t always better than two way speakers so it’s a good idea to listen first – and speakers are very subjective. I only recommended the Energy C-100 all around because they are such a good price and kind of a hot commodity right now.


I’d have to steer you to the speaker section because there are almost endless suggestions for speakers in the $800 price range. You can get a lot of ideas there. ($800 search)


----------



## kiplingif

Well, I have nothing now but a Coby upconverter DVD player. Im moving into an apartment this summer and will then be buying a HDTV (probably an LCD around 42") and then possibly a bluray and a dvr or something to that effect.


I just liked the look of the Onkyo because every indication is that it is "future proof". So, if it is a good quality for a decent price and will last me and all my needs for the time being, I think that is the way to go, you know?


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiplingif* /forum/post/15725522
> 
> 
> I just liked the look of the Onkyo because every indication is that it is "future proof". So, if it is a good quality for a decent price and will last me and all my needs for the time being, I think that is the way to go, you know?



Nothing is really "future proof" and that phrase makes me cringe. But if you like the Onkyo and you know it's all you'll need for a long time, go for it, it's a decent unit.


----------



## generallee

I am really confused. I wanted to buy a HTIB but the more that I read the more confused I get. It seems that HDMI inputs are desireable but since Samsung has none that eliminates them from the list even though they have a HT-BD2T model that includes blu ray. Oky HS6100 and HS7100 have HDMI inputs but there are reported HDMI switching problems and lengthy warm ups and mediocre speakers so I guess this is a pass also.


I don't have the money for a top of the line system but I wanted a HTIB to play music and movies via HD DVD and also a Blu Ray player. (I already have a HD DVD player but have not yet bought a blu ray). I still want to be able to use the feed from DTV for normal TV without having to turn on the HTIB (Wife does not like surround except for movies) I also own a old laser Disk player which I still like to play on occasion.

My TV is a Sony 60 inch HD projection that has 2 HDMI inputs but the sound is not great for movies even in surround sound mode.


If any one has similiar requirements as mine and has some advice, I would appreciate some help.


----------



## Tulpa

No HTIB is going to have exceptional speakers. That's the reason why they sell so cheap. The Onkyo's mediocre speakers are the best you'll get from any other brand as well. If you're okay with mediocre, they're a good deal, but don't expect exceptional sound out of any of them.


That's why this thread exists. The Onkyo (and other mentioned brands) receivers are very good, and if paired with better speakers (either name brands like Polk, Infinity, Energy) or well respected internet direct brands (AV123, SVS, Axiom, etc.) you can get a better deal, although you'll either pay more up front or have to build it over time.


You have to decide that for yourself.


For your requirements, you just need to get the right receiver, whether it be an included one in a HTIB or a standalone. The advantage to Onkyo, Yamaha, and a few other brands is that they use the same or very similar receivers to their standalone lineup, enabling you to expand to better speakers later and have most if not all the switching requirements you need.


----------



## Soupdawg

I've been lurking on this site for quite a while, and learning everyday. Looking forward to continuing the journey...even if the missus doesn't!


Based on info from this thread, I've been slowly moving away from a 3-year old Yamaha HTIB. First step was to replace the less than stellar speakers with 4 x Polk M30s and a CS1. Even Mrs Luddite could discern the immediate difference these speakers made.


I'm now looking to make the last two steps, replacing the sub and the AVR. I'm still doing research on the sub, but looking at the PA-120 and BIC H-100 to continue to get the most bang for the buck.


I thought I knew what I wanted in the AVR department. Had my heart set on the Yamaha 663, but now I'm wondering if this is the right receiver for me or could it be overkill.


I've got to admit, I don't really understand all the nuances of putting together a home theater system, but I'm trainable. What confuses me is knowing exactly what I need the receiver to do as opposed to what the tv and Blu-Ray player already does.


The rest of my system includes a Samsung 52A550 tv and a Sony BDP S350 Blu-Ray player. TV signal is via a Scientific American Explorer 8300 cable box. All have HDMI connections.


System is used 75% for movies and 25% for music in a room 15' x 21'. Room size is subject to change (military member constantly moving to new locations/homes).


Intent is to hook everything up via HDMI and make the viewing pleasure as simple as possible (Mrs Luddite also uses the system...sometimes without adult supervision).


Based on the parts/pieces I already have, what is the best AVR out there for under $400 that will provide the best bang for the buck without too many unnecessary features. Looking primarily for 7.1 capes, even though only set up for 5.1 right now.


I know the Onkyo 606 is looked on favorably here, but based on concerns about overheating and the confined space the AVR will fit into, it's probably not the best choice for me.


I truly appreciate your learned opinions. Help this luddite continue to move beyond the constraints of a HTIB and into the promised land of the true home theater.


Thanks in advance.


Cheers


Soup


----------



## ickysmits

Check out the Harmon Kardon AVR 254: http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=91729


----------



## Soupdawg

Thanks for the info. Since price is about the same for this and the 663, any advantage of the HK over the Yamaha?


----------



## Tulpa

Some people prefer Harmon-Kardon's sound. They also pad their specs less than the others, which some consider a plus.


----------



## Soupdawg

Thanks for the added info.


I've learned a little more reading thru the "Best AVR for


----------



## Tulpa

You may not have much of a choice on whether the AVR decodes or not. Most HDMI audio ones also decode now.


Some of the Sonys don't, but I think there are better choices.


----------



## ickysmits

You don't absolutely need a receiver that upconverts video or decodes the latest codecs - but as Tulpa mentioned, many of the newer models do all this anyway. You could step down to a more basic receiver but I wouldn't unless you're on a very tight budget.


You could look at the Marantz SR4002 for a receiver that can handle audio decoded by a BR player: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...und-NEW/1.html 

And Accessories4less is an authorized dealer. However it's an older model and the shipping might push it up to around $330.


Also have a look at the Yamaha HTR-6160 for about $350: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...73&dcaid=17902 



Oh, and make sure to get Mrs Luddite a universal remote like the Logitech Harmony to make all this easier.


----------



## nlsteele

I'm on a vastly constrained budget (buying a new home and car this year), but wanted to move into home theater from an ancient Sony ES receiver that did prologic paired with white van speakers and a pair of bookshelves an audiophile friend built for me out of generosity (5" drivers, silk horn tweeters, not sure of the specs and he can't remember). I understand the idea of buying your speakers primarily and then upgrading receivers after the speaker budget has been met, but I'm honestly just not that picky (yet pickier than the "common man") when it comes to sound quality, so I knew well enough to get an Onkyo AVR due to their overbuilding habits and history, and I knew I'd have to bite the bullet to throw speakers together for 5.1 (with a future outlook toward 7.1) that I can enjoy *now* while saving my pennies in the speaker fund for the big-boy brands in the future. I started out looking at the Onkyo 6100 all in one box system, but was thankfully talked out of that by a salesman at Accessories4Less. At the end of the day, I went with buying a TX-SR606 AVR separately (fantastic receiver, I'm all over the owner's thread and you should be too if you're considering it or looking for a ~$300 7.1 HDMI switching AVR; Audyssey more than makes any difference between this package and another brand negligible IMO), and bought 80 lb.s of their HT speakers from another set in the form of the SKS-HT540. It was frustrating that there've only been two folks on this entire site to review the 540 package they bought (both liked it very much BTW), so I'm going to elucidate a bit for those in similar situations.


I'm *thrilled* with the sound for movies and music (I'm not an audiophile, I do like clear sound, I tend to favor brightness, I like my bass tight, but I'm coming off of some very sloppy 12"s with teeny tiny magnets so take this with a grain of salt).


Currently I'm only employing the front three speakers and sub from the package (each with two 5" drivers, a 1" floating tweeter, and back ported) and my audiophile friend's bookshelves, so the timbre matching is fantastic all around for 5.1 (Audyssey set all my crossovers at 80Hz). The subwoofer has far more power than I need it too (we live in an apartment); I can feel the bass physically at even low volumes (granted Audyssey EQ has something to do with that). The Onkyo fronts and centers are bigger than the average HT bear, but that was exactly what I wanted (they're very nicely proportional around a 46" Aquos and I'm breaking my wife in on the idea of some glorious towers for the future). The reason I backed away from the 6100 was the sensitivity rating of the speakers: each has a 3 1/8" driver and sensitivity ratings around either 76 dB/W/m (you can't find *that* info on the Onkyo website). The fronts in the 540 package have 86 dB/W/m sensitivity ratings, the rears (which are vastly smaller and at this point untested till I get some more 16 AWG wire to run a 6.1 setup) are 82 dB/W/m.











The sound is crisp and provides very smooth imaging transitions. I get the giggles every time I run the THX audio setup on some of my discs just for fun. The sub and having a more powerful center have really woken up my HT from the 4.0 setup I was running (with the w-v speakers and bookshelves) prior to the arrival of the 540's. I'm honestly taken aback at how much more engrossing movies are and how much sound I was missing before. I look forward to seeing how much farther this comes up as these make their progressive way back to a bedroom setup when I can afford better quality speakers a piece at a time to replace them, but in the meantime, I'm very, VERY pleased with this setup.


I understand the logic of the speakers-first camp, but for someone on a budget, who wants 5.1 or 7.1 now and vacuum tube amps with reference speakers later in life, I seriously doubt you can put together a better package for $519 (AVR and speakers both refurbs [you can buy an untested product for more, but why?], granted I had my bookshelves before, but if I used the included surround speakers I doubt I'd be much less pleased; I may have to test that out and report back).


I'll put my flame suit on now and my feelings don't hurt easy so have at; I'll probably just reply that I wish I could afford Infinity Beta 50s and a top of the line HSU sub like you.










Edit/Update: I've now mixed in one of the smaller surrounds as the 6th channel for the few DVDs I have with 6.1 sound. I'll say this, the sound is considerably lesser from this speaker, Auddysey sets the crossover at 120 Hz, and I don't disagree. I don't know that I would be that dissapointed with these as my surrounds and back surrounds due to the matched voice, but they certainly aren't as good as the bookshelves I'm using now (Mr. Obvious). As an aside, what's up with 6.1 remixing? It seems like they just make up content to fill that channel and give it some use. So far, so unimpressed with the addition of a 6th channel, but I'm sure that'll change when I get bluray later this year and run 7.1 with the HD codecs.


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

Hey, I have a Logitech Z-5500 5.1 set that I'm planning on upgrading the satellites on as a decent system and then might later upgrade to a proper AVR and sub. The Z-5500 is a decent starting point as it handles Dolby decoding and has coax and toslink inputs outputting 60wx5 along with a massive 190w 10" sub... Not bad for $250 PC surround.


At first I was looking at the Fluance HTXB set, but hated the color. Next found the Yambeka Audio 5.0 set and was impressed by the looks, but I have no idea how they sound (though they get good reviews and are made in the same factory as the Fluances and the lower end Polks). Then someone pointed me toward this thread and there seems to be a ton more options than I had previously thought.


Now I'm still a penny pincher, so my budget for a 5.0 speaker set is around $300. I like the Polk R300/R150/CSR combo, but am I missing any other serious contenders in this price range?


----------



## Soupdawg

Gents


Thanks again for the great info. I ended up getting a Denon AVR-888 at closeout price. Price was less than either the HK or Yammy I was looking at. Also ordered the PA-120 sub as well, so my HT is complete...for now.


All in all, spent approx $800 and built a system of 4 X Polk M-30s, Polk CS-1 center, PA-120 sub and Denon AVR-888. Never could've got there without the info on this site, and the great folks sharing their knowledge.


Now all I've got to do is wait for all the parts and pieces to arrive, then it's Christmas in Feb!


Thanks all!


Cheers


Soup


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

After more research, I've come across the Speaker company and am particularly interested in their P6-PR bookshelves. They are supposed to be comparable to Polk/JBL/Infinity lines. For $90 a pair they could be a great deal. However I've also found BIC DV62's for $90 a pair. I'm thinking of getting 3 sets for perfectly matched surround sound.


Anyone have experience with these speakers or have any advice on which way to go?


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SpartacusMagnus* /forum/post/15840458
> 
> 
> After more research, I've come across the Speaker company and am particularly interested in their P6-PR bookshelves. They are supposed to be comparable to Polk/JBL/Infinity lines. For $90 a pair they could be a great deal. However I've also found BIC DV62's for $90 a pair. I'm thinking of getting 3 sets for perfectly matched surround sound.
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience with these speakers or have any advice on which way to go?



I'd go with the Energy C-100 on closeout for only $30 more per pair.


----------



## Blake1547

I believe this is the correct place to post this, but if not lemme know where to put it. After loads of research and talking to members on here (thanks for all your help) I think I have finally come to a decision on my theater system. I just want to figure out what cables and wires I will need. Here is what I will have


47" Vizio HD LCD

Onkyo 606

Onkyo 540 speakers

DirecTV HD DVR box

Belkin iPod dock

Panasonic BD 60 (when it comes out)


Also, is there a difference in running everything through the receiver and only having 1 HDMI cord from receiver to Tv, or running 3 HDMI cables to TV (receiver, DirecTV box, BD player)? Thanks


----------



## nlsteele




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blake1547* /forum/post/15846204
> 
> 
> I believe this is the correct place to post this, but if not lemme know where to put it. After loads of research and talking to members on here (thanks for all your help) I think I have finally come to a decision on my theater system. I just want to figure out what cables and wires I will need. Here is what I will have
> 
> 
> 47" Vizio HD LCD
> 
> Onkyo 606
> 
> Onkyo 540 speakers
> 
> DirecTV HD DVR box
> 
> Belkin iPod dock
> 
> Panasonic BD 60 (when it comes out)
> 
> 
> Also, is there a difference in running everything through the receiver and only having 1 HDMI cord from receiver to Tv, or running 3 HDMI cables to TV (receiver, DirecTV box, BD player)? Thanks



Hey, Blake, didn't want you to just have me to deal with, but guess I'll field this one. It should probably have gone (and in future go) in the TX-SR606 Owner's thread, because it's mainly a question about connecting up the 606. You'll obviously need an HDMI cable or two (three once you've got your BD player). Monoprice.com and BlueJean cable are great (there are links at the top of the AVS Forums page under sponsors). You'll also need to grab some 16 AWG speaker wire for your connections and I'd recommend banana plugs like before. The only questions you need to ask yourself between running all three to the TV or all to the AVR then AVR to TV are these:


1) Do you want to use your AVR for switching (if so, run them there)

2) Do you need to have separate TV calibrations for the inputs (if so, run them to the TV; I only have one calibration on my TV for all inputs and am happy FWIW)

3) Do you want to have the True HD and Master HD audio? (if so, you'll need the BD connected to the HDMI of the AVR as that's the only way that sound gets relayed).


What I think you might be worrying about is signal degredation? The HDMI for the 606 repeats the signal exactly as its output. It can downscale if you want it too, but it won't touch the signal otherwise. You won't have any visible difference between the two methods of connection as far as picture quality.


Hope this helps. Come join us in the 606 owner's forum anytime.


----------



## mikesixty4

Need some advice on a decent home theater system.


Keep in mind I don't know jack about Audio or surround sound systems. I had planned on buying a HTIB but after some research for the past few days I have come to the conclusion that it may be better buying the pieces individually.


I live in an apartment right now so I won't be blasting the sound to loud but I am not sure how much longer I am staying here as I am considering buying a house. So i am looking for a receiver that I could easily upgrade later.


I need several HDMI connections for the following:

Sony Bravia LCD TV

COMCAST HD(No other choice)

XBOX 360

PS3 (Future Purchase mainly for blue ray but gaming is a nice addition)


I have around $1000-$1200 to spend...


After doing a little research on the site I have found the following might work:

Onkyo TX-SR606

Energy C-300

Bic H-100


Purchasing the 3 of these would put me around $1,100 right now.

Would these work well together for a nice system?


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Need some help with a cheaper receiver recommendation, I know there are a few that everyone likes in the 250 and up range, I'm hoping for cheaper? I'm currently running a Pioneer VSX-812k and its not bad, however it only crosses over at 100hz, or higher, in my apartment using a subwoofer is not gonna fly since i'm on the second floor so I'm trying to get the most out of my floorstanders and cross them over at 60 or 80hz so I can get as much midbass and not feel like i'm listening in a tin can. 100hz and my left and right set to Large sound decent, but was thinking about upgrading to a receiver that could get me a lower cross over point so that when I move out I have not only that, but when I hook up a sub, cross it over at 80 and I should have a well rounded system..100hz in a subwoofer gets boomy for me. Any help?


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikesixty4* /forum/post/15880731
> 
> 
> I live in an apartment right now so I won't be blasting the sound to loud but I am not sure how much longer I am staying here as I am considering buying a house. So i am looking for a receiver that I could easily upgrade later.



Maybe reconsider the Onkyo SR606 because it doesn’t have pre-outs to add an external amplifier. When you move into a house you might want more power but you’d be stuck with the 606 and not able to upgrade – just something to think about.


----------



## mikesixty4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/15882035
> 
> 
> Maybe reconsider the Onkyo SR606 because it doesn’t have pre-outs to add an external amplifier. When you move into a house you might want more power but you’d be stuck with the 606 and not able to upgrade – just something to think about.



Thanks for the reply...

I just got the tv installed today and I have my Z5500 connected to it right now and it sounds fine. I think I am going to hold off on purchasing a nice system until I move into a house.


----------



## buzzy_

FYI, Vanns, today only - Velodyne VX-10 Subwoofer (Gray) $150 shipped - a good vendor, sometimes it takes a little work but they will fix their mistakes


----------



## bvsouthc

Hello, I have posted here a couple times and so far have gotten no response. I orginally was planning on getting the HT-S5100 from Onkyo, then after researching looked at getting the 7100, then the 9100THX. Well then I started researching more on here and everyone said to get the best you can afford. Below is the setup I am currently considering:


Onkyo 706 reciever $550 at Vanns

BIC F12 Sub $226 on Amazon

C300 Energy Fronts $125 each at WWStereo

C-C50 Energy Center $79 at WWStereo

C100 Energy Rears and Surrounds $119/Pair at Vanns


This comes to around $1350. I will also need stands for the rears and surrounds. My question is do I need this much of a setup?? I have the following:


61" Samsung LED DLP

PS3

Nintendo Wii

DirecTV HD DVR

Looking to buy Oppo 980H


My room where the speakers will be setup is about 20'x12' with cathedral ceilings. I really need some guidance here as I am going crazy trying to figure out what to do. I would prefer not to spend the $1400 if I can get away with the 7100 or 9100. But, that being said, if it truly does make a difference and the speakers that are included in the HTIB are that crappy...then I am willing to do it. Will the setup I put together above be too much for my setup (overkill)? Please help me out here. Also, does anyone know some inexpensive stands that will work with the Energy C100's if I decide to go that route? Thanks in advance...


----------



## Tulpa

It's not overkill. Only you can say if it's overkill for your wallet, really.


Soundwise it'll probably in all likelihood sound better than the Onkyo systems.


I went from an Onkyo HTIB, kept its receiver and upgraded the speakers. No contest, the upgraded speakers were way better than the Onkyo ones, and I don't regret my purchase at all.


----------



## bvsouthc

Now I'm wondering if I should get the Bipole C-R100's for the sides and C-100's for the rears. Or maybe just get the C-50's with the Bipoles??


----------



## bvsouthc

Just pulled the trigger! I ended up getting:


4 C-300's

1 C-C50

2 C-100's

Onkyo 706


Not sure if I will use a 5.1 with the 300's (and put 100's in another room) or do a 7.1. Now I am just looking for a sub! Any suggestions?


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bvsouthc* /forum/post/15924106
> 
> 
> Now I am just looking for a sub! Any suggestions?



What's your sub budget?


Under $200, I'd recommend the Velodyne VX-10.


Under $300, either one of the Bic America subs (whatever the replacement for the Acoustech H-100 is now) or a Cadence sub.


Under $400, either Elemental Designs or HSU subs.


----------



## bvsouthc

I was looking at the BIC F12, seem like a pretty decent sub for $250 on Amazon...


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

Anyone heard the Cerwin-Vega CLS-6 bookshelves?


A 6 1/2" driver, horn tweeter, frequency response down to 50Hz, 125w power handling and weighing in at an impressive 20lbs for only $150 a pair (shipped). Spec wise sounds like an awesome speaker for home theatre, but I haven't heard much about them. In comparison, The Speaker Company's 6 1/2" bookshelves which get great reviews weigh only 11 lbs and go down to 60Hz, but are only $90 a pair shipped. Energy C-100's are only 5 1/4" drivers and are $120 before shipping.


Thoughts?


----------



## tanko80

I just ordered my HT setup and I wanted to express my thanks to those that helped and to those that keep this thread going. I was originally going with an Onkyo HTIB (the 7100 or the 9100THX), but thanks to this thread, i ended up piecing together my own setup. this si what I just ordered:


Receiver: Onkyo 606

Speakers: Polk RM705 5.1 system and 2 Polk FS Monitor 50 (will use these are fronts)


all for under 1k.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tanko80* /forum/post/15929123
> 
> 
> I just ordered my HT setup and I wanted to express my thanks to those that helped and to those that keep this thread going. I was originally going with an Onkyo HTIB (the 7100 or the 9100THX), but thanks to this thread, i ended up piecing together my own setup. this si what I just ordered:
> 
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo 606
> 
> Speakers: Polk RM705 5.1 system and 2 Polk FS Monitor 50 (will use these are fronts)
> 
> 
> all for under 1k.



That sounds like a cool setup, enjoy! Any plans to buy the matching center speaker for those Monitor 50s?


----------



## tanko80

Eventually, i would like to get the matching center, but it's not in my immediate plans. For now, I'll just enjoy what I've got coming and go from there.


----------



## meili

First time poster, so bear with me, and thanks to those who contribute to this forum.


I just jumped in this week and ordered the bulk of my system after reading these forums for several weeks. I was aiming for a decent 5.1 system to start with, so I went to a local Best Buy to audition some speakers. Here is what I purchased this week:


AVR-1909 - $500 from Best Buy

Polk TSi 200 fronts - $230 from newegg

Polk CS10 center - $130 from newegg

Polk TSi 100 rears - $170 from Best Buy


So, I'm in at barely over $1k, and all that I really need now is a sub. I already have a 50" Panasonic plasma for display, and I have a dish network box and a PS3 as sources. The items from newegg are on their way now, so I'm getting pretty excited.


----------



## GregLee

Here's my bargain 7.1 speakers for under $700 (shipped to Hawaii):


fronts - Axiom M3v2, $298 (B-stock)

center - Axiom M2i, $128 (B-stock, M2v2 is $133)

side surrounds - CSW S305, $159 (clearance, now sold out)

back surrounds - Coral BX-300, $20 (from Salvation Army)

sub - Sony SA-WM20, $89 (no longer made)


I'm pleased with the sound. The Axioms have gotten very good notices, and unlike other ID companies, Axiom does not charge extra for shipping to Hawaii.


----------



## mikojava

Ok so I was going down the road with the whole HTIB thing. Then things started to get wonky because I kept reading more and more in the forums.


So I decided to try to build a HT-DIY kit... please provide your feedback...


So I got an

Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 Reciever ($250 cash to a guy off Craigslist)

Energy Take Classic 5 Speakers ($200 to World Wide Stereo, free ship)

BIC Acoustech H-100 (eBay $259 shipped)


I'm gearing up for a Blu-Ray setup, dont have a player yet, but want one that can munch lossless codecs to pass over LCPM to my receiver. I'm thinkin PS3 actually...


Anyhow, that's what I got.


Thx


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikojava* /forum/post/15980798
> 
> 
> Ok so I was going down the road with the whole HTIB thing. Then things started to get wonky because I kept reading more and more in the forums.
> 
> 
> So I decided to try to build a HT-DIY kit... please provide your feedback...
> 
> 
> So I got an
> 
> Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 Reciever ($250 cash to a guy off Craigslist)
> 
> Energy Take Classic 5 Speakers ($200 to World Wide Stereo, free ship)
> 
> BIC Acoustech H-100 (eBay $259 shipped)
> 
> 
> I'm gearing up for a Blu-Ray setup, dont have a player yet, but want one that can munch lossless codecs to pass over LCPM to my receiver. I'm thinkin PS3 actually...
> 
> 
> Anyhow, that's what I got.
> 
> 
> Thx



The receiver looks like an OK price - just make sure it works properly.


Why not the C-300, C-C50, C-50 system from wwstereo .com for $400 along with the ESW-8 sub from Amazon for $100? It's only slightly more...


----------



## mikojava

that sounds like pretty awesome advice to me...


I emailed WW Stereo and asked if they could switcheroo my order from the Take Classic to these...


Thanks ickysmits...


----------



## ickysmits

The BIC is the better sub, but it's hard to resist the Energy closeout while it lasts (which won't be for too much longer). Another option, within budget but without the floorstanding C-300s is this:


Two pair: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...38/energy-c100 

One center: http://www.buy.com/prod/Energy-C-C10...210807863.html 

and the ESW-8 mentioned above.


I'd be inclined to go for that as you'd have 5.25 woofers all around - making a good match. The C-C100 is a better, but bigger, center speaker. It's nice to have a good center for fuller sounding dialog in movies and TV.


You can always flip the ESW-8 later and get a better sub but these Energy speakers are almost gone...and already hard to piece together.


----------



## mikojava

thanks for your advice... I liked the towers and went for the C-300 package... should work out for me, hopefully =)


----------



## ChunkyMonkey

I'm helping a friend with her first 5.1 setup. She lives in an apartment so the space is fairly small and blow you away sound levels and bass probably isn't a plus







It will be mainly used for Xbox gaming, DVDs, and Netflix streaming (stereo). She's also pretty into music so I wouldn't be surprised if she starts using it for that too with her Ipod.


Budget is around $500.

I'm planing on selling her my Yamaha RX-V1400 for $150 (maybe dropping that to $100 to get her better speakers). Does this sounds about right? I tried to price it on Ebay.


So that leaves $350 - $400 for speakers. I understand the closeout Energy speakers seems to be the best deal right now and had her set on the C-50 set from audio advisor posted a few pages ago but now they're sold out. Here's other sets I've pieced together form various sites.


1)

Energy C-50 $100 x2 = $200

Energy C-C50 $80

Energy ESW-9 $100

total $380
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...TV/10/144501// 
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...TV/10/144378// 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENESW8 


2)

Energy C-100 119 x2 = $238

Energy C-C100 $114

Energy ESW-9 $100

total $452
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...38/energy-c100 
http://www.buy.com/prod/Energy-C-C10...210807863.html 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENESW8 


3)

WWStereo set

Energy C-300 (2)

Energy C-50 (2)

Energy C-C50

total $400
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 



Now that the C-50 set is more expensive than it was a few days ago, it seems like the C-100's might be a better bargain. Are the 100's worth the extra $75?


Also the last set doesn't include a sub to keep costs down. Is she going to be missing a lot going with a 5.0 setup rather than 5.1? Keep in mind she's in an apartment. I'm not sure she would add a sub later if she went with the 3rd option.


Any suggestions? better prices? should I be looking at any other brands?


----------



## tanko80

Well, after several hours, I got my system up and running. the only thing, and I know i read about this before, is that I'm not getting sound out of the rear surrounds. I threw in The Dark knight, and it did sound awesome, but its a 5.1 track. Is not getting sound out of the rears normal, or is there some setting on the onkyo 606 or PS3 that i need to set??

If any of you can refer to thread on optimal settings I'd appreciate it too.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tanko80* /forum/post/15989504
> 
> 
> ... is there some setting on the onkyo 606 or PS3 that i need to set??



I don't know, but Dolby Digital Ex and PLIIx are two settings for deriving back surround channels from 5.1 sound, so you could look for those. PLIIx also derives 7.1 sound from just two channels.


----------



## ChunkyMonkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tanko80* /forum/post/15989504
> 
> 
> is there some setting on the onkyo 606 or PS3 that i need to set??
> 
> too.



The PS3 has check boxes to tell it what audio types to output.
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...diooutput.html


----------



## Osso55

Hi all,


I was sent to this site by a friend and he recomends it highly.


I am updating my family room completely and all i have currently is my Sony KDL 46XBR6 series. So i am in the market for components to augment this TV.


Mu budget is to keep evertyhing under the 1k mark. Thus i was first looking at the HTIB until i saw this thread.


So after some shopping today and some haggling, here are the compponents and prices that i have been offered from a local dealer. I would greatly appreciate all comments before i purchase these.


surround sound speakers boston acoutics MCS 100 $379

AV receiver yamha RX-V465BL $300

blue ray pioneer BDP-51FD $320


Thanks


----------



## 209Mason

Hey all... Gonna go ahead and throw my idea out here and see what you guys think/what alternatives may be better for me. Not sure on surrounds yet... this is as far as I've got.

*L/R: Polk T90e 2x $139 = $280*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=polk%20t90e 
*C: Polk CSM $69*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=polk%20CSM 
*Sub: Polk PSW10 $99*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882290034


----------



## kbower090

After trolling around here for a couple of days trying to make an informed decision on what to purchase for my first true audio system, I went with the following:


-Onkyo TXSR606 Reviever

-Energy C-300 5 Speaker Home Theater System

-Energy ESW-8 Subwoofer


This is hooking up to my new Samsung LN52A550 TV and a PS3.


I have stands for the 2 satellite speakers.


What I need to know now is what to purchase to connect it all together. I already ordered 3 HDMI cables from monocable.


What wiring, clip, etc. is needed to the optimal configuration? Where is the best place to purchase?


And is there anything else that you you recommend...


Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks for all of the great info, AVS is invaluable when looking into home audio/visual. Everyone's contributions are greatly appreciate...


----------



## Tulpa

HDMI cables should be fine from your TV to the receiver and the PS3 to the receiver (is there anything else that would need one? Cable box or something?)


Only thing else it looks like you need is speaker wire. You can order from Monoprice or just head to Lowes Depot and pick some up. 14 gauge is usually recommended. 12 gauge if you have a really long run to your rear speakers.


There's no real "optimal configuration" wire as long as it's good quality (which you can see for yourself.) Just grab some GE brand or Monoprice brand or whatever. Heck, even lamp cord will work.


You can also buy banana clips which make installing a bit easier (especially if you think you'll be disconnecting and reconnecting the wires alot) but that's just a convenience. No sonic improvement.


----------



## mikojava

that's awesome, it's like almost my exact setup except with a BIS Acoustech sub... I'm pretty much hoping to rock lossless codecs from Blu-Ray


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

Just an FYI:


Onkyo 606 on sale at ecost.com for $250 (recertified) with 1 year warranty. I picked one up, but only ~30 hours left before the sale ends.


UPDATE:


Scratch that. Sold out. They just sent me an email that my order was canceled as item was out of stock. Dang it.


----------



## sid369

I have been researching for my first Ht setup and I was almost set for the onkyo 6100, but then I started reading this thread and it got me interested in buying separate and building a good system. I am on a budget and I think so far for the receiver I think the onkyo 606 best fits my budget, I saw it on ecost for 252, but on shoponkyo its for 349 for refurbished, does anyone know what the difference is between the ecost reconditioned and the shoponkyo refurbished.


I am also thinking of just buying the front two speakers and a sub for now and the adding things to it later. I live in an apartment and the room is not that big, I am no audiophile and just want to enjoy movies with good surround sound. Can anyone recommend a good pair of speakers and sub for a good price without breaking the bank. My total budget is not to exceed $500, if this cannot be achieved than I might consider the 6100, when there is a sale going on or something.


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

sid369,


the ecost model is sold out. It shows as instock, but it's not.


----------



## heislord5

HI everyone,


I just purchased a projector. Have a small 11' x 13' room I'm going to use. Only for movies.


Here is my thing. I just need something to hold me over for a few years. I want to be able to turn the volume up to a reasonable loudness and hear clear sound.


I don't need super duper great sound. I won't be listening to music. Now here is the catch.


I want to spend the absolute least possible to get my system up. I mean if I could get it for $50 I'd take it. If my computer speakers weren't so crackly, I might use those, lol!


What 7.1 could I set up or buy pre-packaged at the poor man's end of the spectrum? What are really good, but super cheap components I could use? I wish the first page would be updated...its back in 2007 info. Also, I'd like to go even cheaper than those if possible!


I need everything including a receiver for 7.1 (will probably keep this in even the future system). Will get 5.1 if big difference in prices.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heislord5* /forum/post/16025753
> 
> 
> What 7.1 could I set up or buy pre-packaged at the poor man's end of the spectrum?



If you've got some Salvation Army, Goodwill Industries, or other used stores close, you may be able to get usable speakers there. Also, garage sales. I bought two Coral bookshelf speakers at a Salvation Army store about 7 years ago for $20 that I still use as the 6 and 7 of a 7.1 system. And before that I used a pair of Sansui floor-standing 3-way speakers as fronts for several years -- got them for $25 at a yard sale. So my suggestion is to get a moderate quality 7.1 receiver and patronize used stores and garage sales to pick up some old speakers. You don't have to sweat making the absolute best decisions, because if some speakers sound awful, you can just throw them out. It will be fun.


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregLee* /forum/post/16030487
> 
> 
> If you've got some Salvation Army, Goodwill Industries, or other used stores close, you may be able to get usable speakers there. Also, garage sales. I bought two Coral bookshelf speakers at a Salvation Army store about 7 years ago for $20 that I still use as the 6 and 7 of a 7.1 system. And before that I used a pair of Sansui floor-standing 3-way speakers as fronts for several years -- got them for $25 at a yard sale. So my suggestion is to get a moderate quality 7.1 receiver and patronize used stores and garage sales to pick up some old speakers. You don't have to sweat making the absolute best decisions, because if some speakers sound awful, you can just throw them out. It will be fun.



thanks Greg. sorry for overstating my case. I'm willing to spend a little for decent sound. I just ebayed a used sr706 receiver for $300.01.










Now I need decent speakers. I saw on the front page they had $50/pair speakers. But that's from several years ago. What's the best 50-75/pair speakers around nowadays? Would I be better off finding a packaged 5.0 or 5.1? Or can I piece together a system like this just as cheaply and better? Or are the 50-75 just significantly worse than the 100/pair and I should just move up?


----------



## ickysmits

If you look around this site you can find lots of links for Energy stuff - probably the best value but they're just over $100 a pair for the book shelves. You can also look at Athena bookshelf speakers on audioadvisor.com, there is an open box center speaker available.


In the $50 range check out parts express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...TOKEN=92950248 

The MTX and Pioneer speakers are very cheap but I'm not sure about shipping. I'd go with Energy, however, the level of quality is much better for just a bit more $.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heislord5* /forum/post/16030868
> 
> 
> What's the best 50-75/pair speakers around nowadays? Would I be better off finding a packaged 5.0 or 5.1?



Someone else can give better advice than I about this. I like Axiom speakers, but the low end of their line, which is what I have, is $133 for the M2v2 small bookshelf speaker.


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/16031007
> 
> 
> If you look around this site you can find lots of links for Energy stuff - probably the best value but they're just over $100 a pair for the book shelves. You can also look at Athena bookshelf speakers on audioadvisor.com, there is an open box center speaker available.
> 
> 
> In the $50 range check out parts express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...TOKEN=92950248
> 
> The MTX and Pioneer speakers are very cheap but I'm not sure about shipping. I'd go with Energy, however, the level of quality is much better for just a bit more $.



cool. Energy. that gives me a direction. Does Energy have another big competitor in the inexpensive market that is as good as Energy?


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregLee* /forum/post/16031027
> 
> 
> Someone else can give better advice than I about this. I like Axiom speakers, but the low end of their line, which is what I have, is $133 for the M2v2 small bookshelf speaker.



Thanks Greg.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heislord5* /forum/post/16031479
> 
> 
> cool. Energy. that gives me a direction. Does Energy have another big competitor in the inexpensive market that is as good as Energy?



Most brands have a budget line. Those Energys are kind of on special right now, so you might have to shop around to find any better deal.


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/16033250
> 
> 
> Most brands have a budget line. Those Energys are kind of on special right now, so you might have to shop around to find any better deal.



I purchased the Energy Classic 5.0 for $199 (at that same website everyone uses). I think I'll add a good sub to that for maybe another $100. Later I may add 2 more speakers for 7.1.


Think that's a good deal/setup for a 11 X 12 bedroom/HT? I think its good enough especially since I'm not big on music or sound in general anyway. It had a lot of very good reviews at amazon. I think 14 5-star and 1 4-star and nothing else!


Is the vx-10 the best inexpensive sub out there (~$100)?


----------



## Tulpa

I don't think anything under the VX-10 beats it. The Dayton Sub-120 might have a bit more output (slightly larger driver), but not really better in any other category.


Of course, there are better subs for more money, but that depends on your budget limit.


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/16034401
> 
> 
> I don't think anything under the VX-10 beats it. The Dayton Sub-120 might have a bit more output (slightly larger driver), but not really better in any other category.
> 
> 
> Of course, there are better subs for more money, but that depends on your budget limit.



great. Then I'm going for the vx-10 I think.


----------



## ChunkyMonkey

Where did you find the VX-10 for $100? could you PM me?


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChunkyMonkey* /forum/post/16035321
> 
> 
> Where did you find the VX-10 for $100? could you PM me?



sorry I can only find it for like 160 shipped...been looking at a lot of stuff and I think I got my wires crossed.


Hey, what about the polk PSW10? I'm going to do a search and see what I can find.


----------



## heislord5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heislord5* /forum/post/16035402
> 
> 
> sorry I can only find it for like 160 shipped...been looking at a lot of stuff and I think I got my wires crossed.
> 
> 
> Hey, what about the polk PSW10? I'm going to do a search and see what I can find.



Actually I just bought the vx-10 and I didn't realize there were:


vx-10

vx-10b

vx-10c


When I checked my order, it showed not vx-10b. vx-10 is 100 watts and vx-10b is 150 watts. hmmm. I guess we have to be careful people understand they are not the same.


Is the vx-10b as good as the vx-10? Which version do people mean when they talk about the vx-10?


edit : I think 100 may be continuous and 150 peak.....so not sure what the difference is.


----------



## SpartacusMagnus

Well, after hours upon hours of research, upwards of ten changes of mind and a bit of frustration, I finally pulled the trigger. Here were (at one point or another) my choices:


Fluance SX-HTB+ (5.0) = $300

Yambeka Audio (5.0) = $300

TSC P6-PR's and P5-PR's (7.0) = $320

Cerwin-Vega CLS-6's and VE-5M's (7.0) = $375

Pure Acoustics Junior (5.0) = $300

Polk Audio R300's, CSR and R150's (7.0) = $400

Insignia NS-B2111's all around (7.0) = $360


I also contemplated a few other more well known brands and options as well as some combinations of my long list. So what did I end up with? NONE OF THE ABOVE! Out of right field I found a deal on newegg for a pair of Polk M20's, a CSM and four M10's for $350 with free shipping! I had originally moved away from the Polks due to the R series rear porting (though 50 bucks for an R300 tower was tempting), the M series solved that issue and added (IMO) some visual flair as well.


Still deciding on an AVR and sub, but I'm making progress. I've got the AVR narrowed down to the Onkyo 606 (naturally) and the H/K 254, leaning towards the H/K. It has some caveats, but better sound, incredible GUI and the sheer sex appeal of the case has me tempted. Sub might be a BIC F-12, PA-120 or tSc T250. Time will tell...


Thanks for all the reading material and insight this forum has provided.


----------



## mtbdudex

I'm doing some research for my Brother, my 1st attempt for AV/Receiver was too high for him, working thru my authorized Paradigm dealer:


> Quote:
> Titan Monitors, a CC-290, a pair of ADP-390s, a DSP-3100, and an DEnon AVR-2309CI would retail at $3420.00. I could do a price of $2650.00 plus tax for all



His big brother has too expensive taste for his current budget just now!


His total budget is $1.1k +- $100.

So, thx for this thread I am now looking at this for 5.1 for him


(1) ONKYO TX-SR606 Black 7.1 Channel Receiver

(1) Polk Audio PSW110 Cherry Powered subwoofer Single

(2) Polk Audio TSi100 Loudspeaker Cherry Pair; fronts and surround

(1) Polk Audio CS10 Cherry Center Speaker Single


$1.1k @ newegg.


Q:

Can I mount the TSi100 on side wall for surrounds or they are rear ported and need stands?? (kid trip issue for living room).


If so I'm thinking the RM8, these would give a "null" also at the seating position for a more diffuse sound field also?

Are these a mis-match for the set-up I got above?


Thx for your advice.


----------



## samsurd2

JMO but I think you can better for a subwoofer. Take a look over in the Sub forum for info on BIC H-100, TSC T-250, PA-120, eD A-300, etc. Prices range from $250 to $350 and all generally will garner higher marks than the Polk Audio PSW110. Like I said, JMO.


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/16062372
> 
> 
> JMO but I think you can better for a subwoofer. Take a look over in the Sub forum for info on BIC H-100, TSC T-250, PA-120, eD A-300, etc. Prices range from $250 to $350 and all generally will garner higher marks than the Polk Audio PSW110. Like I said, JMO.



Thx for advice, I'm looking at other subs than the Polk now.


My brother wants to wall-mount the speakers, and I see their RM85 line-up can be wall mounted, sealed design. Also read their TSi100's are wall mountable.

Is the RM85 package a step down from the TSi100's/CS10, or just different?

RM85 package:










vs

Center CS10:









Main TSi100 RH/LH and Surrounds:











I've always followed the di-pole viewpoint for 5.1 surronds, these are direct firing......

If I used these RM8's for the surround would it then not be tonal/timbre matched to the TSi100 fronts? The RM8's carry a slightly higher MSRP than the TSi's.

RM8


----------



## heislord5

please see my separate post on M10 vs Take Classic.


----------



## ickysmits

I think you'll find that the small 2.5" driver in the RM speaker won't match the 5.5" drivers in front very well. Some effects might sound thinner in the surrounds.


----------



## v0430

I am just starting to build my HD. Last week I bought my first item -Sony LCD.


Like many novices, I looked to buy a HTIB (SC-PT760 - high marks at cnet). Then I chanced upon this forum and realized I could do a lot better by investing a little more.


I decided on the following Energy speakers:

2xC-300

2xC-50

1xC-C50

1xEWR-8

2xC-R100


My room is prewired with 4 speaker bases built into the walls. Are the above speakers mountable or should I go with Energy Take Classic speakers (I think they are smaller in size).


I am planning on HK 254 Receiver.


I don't have any other HD item excepting my old DVD player & an even older VHS player. So, I will be need a Receiver that can enhance the sound the video and I was hoping HK254 does that. Any suggestions, please.


Finally, thank you to all the 'gurus' in this forum - you saved my $400 from going down the HTIB drain.


----------



## ickysmits

I would upgrade to the C-C100 instead of the C-C50.

http://www.buy.com/prod/Energy-C-C10...210807863.html


----------



## afinanceguy

Please suggest front and centers for me...or changes to the rest

Room is 16x16x9 and open in the rear. It is prob 70% TV/movies 20% gaming and 10% music.


I'm looking to do 5.1 and use a pair of in-ceiling surrounds in the rear. I know those are generally hated around here but I am going that way anyways.


At present I am looking at the following:


Receiver: HK AVR 254 refurb - eBay ($330ish shipped)

Sub: Hsu STF-2 ($380 shipped)

Surrounds: Two of the Klipsch CDT-2650-SC b-stocks ($334 shipped)

Fronts:?

Center:?


Can anyone reco 2 fronts and a center for $300 shipped?


For fronts I am looking for bookshelf speakers probably. I have a baby and I don't want to see her crushed by a floorstand. Hopefully I'll get some furniture setup where I can just set the L and R on BluTac on the furniture itself.


Am I skimping in the wrong places by having this $300 target for the fronts and a center? Should I skip the center for now and get better fronts? Should I get a smaller sub or cheaper in ceiling surrounds? The Klipsch in-ceilings were about the best in-ceilings I could find that are aimable and seem like they are expensive enough they might be able to sound decent.


Looking to keep the total right at $1300 max.


Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## Jacob22

Hello All,


I just joined avsforum today and am looking for some help. I have read up on the other threads about HTiB and how building your own system is better. Well, what I am looking for is to build a 7.1 system. I am looking to spend around $1,200.00 at this point. Could someone please recommend speakers, subs and receiver.


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afinanceguy* /forum/post/16152675
> 
> 
> Please suggest front and centers for me...or changes to the rest
> 
> Room is 16x16x9 and open in the rear. It is prob 70% TV/movies 20% gaming and 10% music.
> 
> 
> I'm looking to do 5.1 and use a pair of in-ceiling surrounds in the rear. I know those are generally hated around here but I am going that way anyways.
> 
> 
> At present I am looking at the following:
> 
> 
> Receiver: HK AVR 254 refurb - eBay ($330ish shipped)
> 
> Sub: Hsu STF-2 ($380 shipped)
> 
> Surrounds: Two of the Klipsch CDT-2650-SC b-stocks ($334 shipped)
> 
> Fronts:?
> 
> Center:?
> 
> 
> Can anyone reco 2 fronts and a center for $300 shipped?
> 
> 
> For fronts I am looking for bookshelf speakers probably. I have a baby and I don't want to see her crushed by a floorstand. Hopefully I'll get some furniture setup where I can just set the L and R on BluTac on the furniture itself.
> 
> 
> Am I skimping in the wrong places by having this $300 target for the fronts and a center? Should I skip the center for now and get better fronts? Should I get a smaller sub or cheaper in ceiling surrounds? The Klipsch in-ceilings were about the best in-ceilings I could find that are aimable and seem like they are expensive enough they might be able to sound decent.
> 
> 
> Looking to keep the total right at $1300 max.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.



My suggestion would be to get cheaper surrounds. I've never seen a setup in which the surrounds cost more than the fronts and center combined. Surround speakers are not nearly as critical as the front sound stage because they do not receive nearly as much content, and that content is generally less complex in nature (surrounds are often used for ambiance, whereas the fronts need to form a coherent, well-matched sound stage). If you really must have those surrounds, I'd definitely skip the center channel for now and just get the best two front speakers you can. The subwoofer is a good choice. A good subwoofer can really "make" a home theater, and Hsu makes quality subs. The STF-2 should do well in that setup.


----------



## SpartacusMagnus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jacob22* /forum/post/16159397
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> I just joined avsforum today and am looking for some help. I have read up on the other threads about HTiB and how building your own system is better. Well, what I am looking for is to build a 7.1 system. I am looking to spend around $1,200.00 at this point. Could someone please recommend speakers, subs and receiver.



Receivers: Onkyo 606/Yamaha 663/HK 254 (pros and cons for each) ~$350-400

Speakers: Lot of options, look at my list (and others) on the last few pages of this thread. I went with Polk M's in the end ($350 for 7.0)

Subs: BIC F12/PA 120/tSc T250/ ~$180-250 (Hsu, Elemental Designs or SVS if you want a higher end sub)


----------



## SpartacusMagnus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afinanceguy* /forum/post/16152675
> 
> 
> Please suggest front and centers for me...or changes to the rest
> 
> Room is 16x16x9 and open in the rear. It is prob 70% TV/movies 20% gaming and 10% music.
> 
> 
> I'm looking to do 5.1 and use a pair of in-ceiling surrounds in the rear. I know those are generally hated around here but I am going that way anyways.
> 
> 
> At present I am looking at the following:
> 
> 
> Receiver: HK AVR 254 refurb - eBay ($330ish shipped)
> 
> Sub: Hsu STF-2 ($380 shipped)
> 
> Surrounds: Two of the Klipsch CDT-2650-SC b-stocks ($334 shipped)
> 
> Fronts:?
> 
> Center:?
> 
> 
> Can anyone reco 2 fronts and a center for $300 shipped?
> 
> 
> For fronts I am looking for bookshelf speakers probably. I have a baby and I don't want to see her crushed by a floorstand. Hopefully I'll get some furniture setup where I can just set the L and R on BluTac on the furniture itself.
> 
> 
> Am I skimping in the wrong places by having this $300 target for the fronts and a center? Should I skip the center for now and get better fronts? Should I get a smaller sub or cheaper in ceiling surrounds? The Klipsch in-ceilings were about the best in-ceilings I could find that are aimable and seem like they are expensive enough they might be able to sound decent.
> 
> 
> Looking to keep the total right at $1300 max.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.



I 2nd that sentiment. You're spending way too much on your surrounds in comparison to your mains. Your center channel handles about 70% of the sound in a movie, so it is your most important speaker. Next would be your L/R mains. The surrounds handle maybe 5% of the sound, often being fairly simple ambient effects which just about any speaker could handle, so the least amount of money out of your speaker budget should be spent here.


If nothing else, you might consider getting a cheaper sub and put that money toward your center/L/R channels.


----------



## BrianOK

Hi, I was hoping to get some advice on a cheap setup (grad student salaries don't leave much money for A/V equipment...).


My budget is around $600-700, and the closer to the lower end the better. I was looking at the Onkyo HT-S6100, since from what I've read the receiver is pretty good and I could gradually upgrade the speakers as I get the funds.


I think my other option would be a pair of Energy C-50s, a C-C50, and a ~$100 sub, possible the ESW-8, paired with a ~$300-350 receiver. From the prices I've seen, that would total ~$630, compared to $600 for the HT-S6100. My biggest question is what receiver to get? I've been looking at the Onkyo TX-SR606. Is there anything else in that price range that would give me a better bang for my buck? Are there any cheaper options that would work? At the moment I only have a cable box, Wii, and DVD player, so number of HDMI inputs isn't a huge deal. Because of the Wii and DVD player I was hoping to get a receiver that would upconvert those. Is upconversion worth the money? Should I hold off until Onkyo releases the 607 and see if the 606 price drops?


So, what say you? With my small budget, should I go with the HTiB, or build it myself?


----------



## ickysmits

Definitely build it yourself. The speakers in the 6100 aren’t very good and you can do much better on a budget with Energy. The C-50, C-C50 option would be much better than the 6100 speakers, but you might want to consider going up a level. Any combination of the following would make a nice budget set:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...38/energy-c100 
http://www.buy.com/prod/Energy-C-C10...210807863.html 
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=2ENESW8 


You could go for the Onkyo receiver, it’s nice and it gets recommended a lot, but it’s really nothing special. To save money, and put more of your budget into speakers, consider Craig’s List or a refurb. The Harman Kardon AVR-247 goes for about $200 at auction on the HK store on eBay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Harman-A...34Q2ec0Q2em322 


Upconversion, in my opinion, is a lot of marketing hype. If you have a TV that upconverts, why would you need a unit intended for audio to upconvert and be upconverted again in the TV? The TV should do whatever it needs to do to convert the image to fit the screen properly. Further, what if you have a DVD player, audio receiver, and TV that all upconvert the image? Do you really think the picture will be 3x better? I know it’s an oversimplification, and there may a real value to upconversion, but the point is that I personally take this kind of marketing with a grain of salt – especially with a budget system.


Remember; a receiver is for features and speakers are for sound. Get good speakers if you want a good sounding system.


----------



## Jacob22

This is what I have come up with. I figured I could start with 5.1 and get better speakers and then add to it later.


Receiver: Yamaha RX-V665

Center: Polk Audio CS200

Front: Polk Audio TSi-400

Rear: Polk Audio TSi-200


I still don't know which sub to get. Is this a decent setup? I don't know much about speakers.


----------



## BrianOK

Thank you for the advice, ickysmits. The AVR-247 looked good enough for me, so I went ahead and got one off of eBay. I think for now I will go with a pair of C-100s, a C-C100, and the ESW-8, then at some point buy a pair of C-300s and use the C-100s as surrounds.


OK, possibly stupid question: What else do I need to set this up? Just speaker wire and banana plugs? 16 gauge wire should be ok for the front speakers, right? Oh, I guess I'll need some speaker stands. Will the Sanus BF-31B work?


I'm excited. I've just been using my TV speakers, it's going to be nice to get some real (even though they're budget) speakers.


----------



## ickysmits

HK stuff is nice; I think you’ll be happy with it and it has enough features/connections to last a long time. It might even be better than the 606 because it can handle PCM audio (if you get a BR player that decods internally) and it has pre-outs for an external amp (something the 606 doesn't have and not to be underestimated). It also has a one year warranty since it comes from the MFG direct on eBay. I bought an HK for my parents and it’s really neat, I like the level of control and advanced settings. I’d recommend a Harmony universal remote though - the HK remote is no worse than any other remote included with a receiver but…well, you’ll see.


I wouldn’t wait too long if you haven’t bought surrounds yet – the Energy C series stuff has been on clearance for a while and availability has been getting less and less, they may beome hard to find quick. You don’t actually need to match the surrounds with the front, but it’s nice and the price is right. It might be difficult to find a pair of speakers that have as good build quality for the same price.


For your cables look to monoprice.com for good prices. 16 gauge wire is enough. Banana plugs aren’t necessary but make it easier if you move things around a lot. It would be worth it to get other cables like HDMI, optical, coaxial, etc…while you’re at it.


Check out the Energy owners thread if you have problems or any other questions. Enjoy!


----------



## jk04523

Ok, I'm in kind of similar situation as many others in this thread. Through a weird set of circumstances I've ended up with a PS3, Xbox 360, and TiVo HD and have been looking at HTIBs that would handle 3 HDMI inputs (have been strongly leaning towards the Onkyo S9100THX). However, I wouldn't mind picking up separates if I could get better or as good sound quality for the same price ... especially since I don't really need a 7 speaker setup.


Right now I'm just using what were originally my PC speakers (Logitech Z-5500's) to handle the audio but obviously it doesn't handle video switching, doesn't handle linear PCM or HD audio formats, only has 2 digital inputs, and most glaringly: are PC speakers.


The trouble comes that I've also already got a pair of Bose 301s series IV and a pair of Bose 601 series IV speakers (I received them as gifts years ago ... even after suggesting superior alternatives but have not had the cash to really do anything about it) that are conversely hooked up to an old Dolby pro-logic receiver and my computer.


I have scraped together about $800 in cash and $200 in Amazon credit and am trying to build a decent 5.1 setup that at some point will get upgraded to 7.1 when I move into a bigger space.


Should I use the Bose speakers for the front and surrounds and put my money into receiver, sub, and center channel (and then focus on upgrading the fronts and eventually the surrounds in the next year or two) or will the Bose screw any chance of getting a good sounding setup? Or maybe should I use the 301s for surround and by the 2 front and center channels (since getting all the same brand would probably get me better sound anyway)?


I've been reading and waiting for awhile (it's been quite a wait for decent affordable 3 HDMI input receivers) but with the new crop coming out this month I feel like it's finally time to get this upgrade going. My goal is just to get the best sound I can by any combination of existing components and the ~$1K I've got. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jk04523* /forum/post/16197550
> 
> 
> My goal is just to get the best sound I can by any combination of existing components and the ~$1K I've got.



I suggest you just get a 7.1 receiver that will handle all your source inputs, hook up what you have, give a listen, and then think about whether you want to spend more on new speakers. You seem to have plenty of speakers for 7.1 -- 4 Bose and 5 satellites from your Z-5500, and you can use the Z-5500 base module as sub.


----------



## jk04523

Greg, thanks for the input. I don't think I can use the sub by itself because like many surround PC setups it's got a bunch of electronics integrated into the sub and no discrete sub input. I could maybe run the sub out from the receiver through the standard audio input and not have any other speakers hooked up but it seems like a bit too much of a kludge for my liking (plus, I'm actually kind of interested in moving it into the office and hooking it back up to the computer where it belongs).


Maybe I'll just go with the receiver and a passable sub for now and see how it sounds. Since I've got downstairs neighbors and don't really see that changing--even if I do move--I don't need the worlds most powerful subwoofer anyway.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jk04523* /forum/post/16198049
> 
> 
> I don't think I can use the sub by itself because like many surround PC setups it's got a bunch of electronics integrated into the sub and no discrete sub input.



I'm sure you can, because I'm using my Z-5500 base as a sub right now with my receiver. It just takes a Radioshack '1/8" to Dual RCA Y-Adapter' part 274-883, which you plug into the center/sub socket of the Z-5500 control module, plug a sub 75ohm cable from the receiver into the white RCA socket of the adapter, put the Z-5500 switch in direct mode, and it works fine.


----------



## jk04523




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregLee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm sure you can, because I'm using my Z-5500 base as a sub right now with my receiver. It just takes a Radioshack '1/8" to Dual RCA Y-Adapter' part 274-883, which you plug into the center/sub socket of the Z-5500 control module, plug a sub 75ohm cable from the receiver into the white RCA socket of the adapter, put the Z-5500 switch in direct mode, and it works fine.



Oh yeah, I forgot about direct mode. I've been running the thing as 3 pairs of stereo for so long that I forgot it had 6-channel discrete analog inputs. That's looking like a good way to go and would definitely hold me over until I can buy a decent sub without freaking out about price. I've already got plenty of RCA to mini-jack adapters around so no new equipment required.


I guess I'll have to wait until I actually get a receiver and go from there. Thanks for the help.


As related question, do you mind if I ask what receiver are you using right now? I'm thinking I could go with the Onkyo 606 or 607 (not sure if the 607 is worth the extra cash but I know at some point I'll be annoyed at not having front panel HDMI access). I wouldn't mind spending a bit more on a receiver now though to get something that'll last me awhile. The thing is I don't really do anything besides watch movies and play video games on this thing so I don't need buckets of connectors. Ideally I'm just looking for something that handles the audio over HDMI well and can send my video signal along unmolested and most $400+ receivers seem to do that.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jk04523* /forum/post/16199165
> 
> 
> As related question, do you mind if I ask what receiver are you using right now? I'm thinking I could go with the Onkyo 606 or 607 ...



Pioneer VSX-1700TXV-K. Those Onkyo models sound good to me, though I have no personal experience with them. I imagine you know there is a long discussion thread for the 606 in the AMPS, ... forum. The next receiver I buy will have to have 9.1 sound, with height channels.


----------



## jk04523

Yeah, I'm waiting on some Amazon gift certificates from my next credit card bill (putting grad school tuition on credit card at least has some benefits) so I imagine I'll be abusing Google search with site:avsforum.com.


Really my only fear is that I'll end up spending more on the receiver than I wanted to and then end up not being happy with the sound but it being out of my budget to buy the components I'd need for a better sounding setup. Ah well, the researching sometimes seems to be more fun than actually having anyway so at least I've got something to do.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jk04523* /forum/post/16199298
> 
> 
> Really my only fear is that I'll end up spending more on the receiver than I wanted to and then end up not being happy with the sound but it being out of my budget to buy the components I'd need for a better sounding setup.



I often hear on these forums the advice that speakers will make the most contribution to sound quality, therefore one should budget around the best affordable speakers. That is not my advice, but I thought you should know ...


----------



## jk04523

Well, at the end of the day there are probably trade-offs for everything. I can see the logic in getting a receiver first and see what happens. I was thinking I'd have to buy a new sub no matter what so now that I can try it out without having to do that, I've really got some flexibility. And since I don't mind buying in pieces there's no harm in going this way.


I should probably go with the lowest end receiver that meets my needs now anyway since that'll probably be the thing that would benefit most from technical improvements in the coming years. It just seems that mixing and matching but not doing it all at once just makes it a bit harder to factor out all the variables and makes me paranoid I'll never finish. I can see a point where it's always 'just one component away.' That's what makes the HTIBs so tempting, save up your money and give it a go, what you get is what you get.


Speaking of mixing and matching, since you had the z-5500, did you reuse any components besides the subwoofer? And were you using it in a home theater setup before and if so, how did you feel about the improvement in overall quality since the upgrade?


The height stuff definitely sounds interesting, and it does push me a bit more towards the 607. If there were definite plans to incorporate it into games or video game consoles I'd definitely consider it a lot more. Surround sound is a life saver in FPS games so having another dimension could be even better.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jk04523* /forum/post/16199421
> 
> 
> Speaking of mixing and matching, since you had the z-5500, did you reuse any components besides the subwoofer? And were you using it in a home theater setup before and if so, how did you feel about the improvement in overall quality since the upgrade?



All parts of my dismembered Z-5500 are in use except the little center channel satellite. I bought it for a second HT in a bedroom, but just didn't like it. I replaced it with an old RCA receiver and Salvation Army speakers that I had lying around unused -- it's much better than the Z-5500 was.


----------



## SpartacusMagnus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregLee* /forum/post/16200439
> 
> 
> All parts of my dismembered Z-5500 are in use except the little center channel satellite. I bought it for a second HT in a bedroom, but just didn't like it. I replaced it with an old RCA receiver and Salvation Army speakers that I had lying around unused -- it's much better than the Z-5500 was.



Wow, that's a strong statement! I've used the Z-5500 for the last 3-4 years (originally for its intended use as PC speakers, then migrated it to the bedroom) and have generally been very pleased with them. Now I'm setting up a home theater for the first time and going with "real" components. I bought Polk M's (M20 mains, M10 surrounds and CSM center) and am wondering how much better they will sound as I haven't yet purchased an AVR (planning on an H/K 254). That statement gives me hope, lol.


----------



## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SpartacusMagnus* /forum/post/16203073
> 
> 
> I've used the Z-5500 for the last 3-4 years (originally for its intended use as PC speakers, then migrated it to the bedroom) and have generally been very pleased with them.



I didn't mean to disparage the Z-5500 speakers when I compared them unfavorably to my Salvation Army speakers, because the latter have some quality (though very cheap) and are much larger. Those little 3" speakers on the Z-5500 satellites just can't compete with the Kenwood LSK-2000 (2-way, 8" woofer) I'm now using as center, or the JBL 4310 studio monitors (3-way, 12" long-excursion woofers) I'm using as fronts.


----------



## GregLee

In buying separates, of course a problem is keeping costs down, and that's especially a problem for me here in Hawaii, since shipping costs are so high. I know you all know about shopping around the Web, so I'm probably not telling you anything new, but I've happened across a couple of good deals from Amazon, with free shipping (even to Hawaii), which I thought I'd mention.


One is a Sony SA-W3800 15" subwoofer for $183, and the other is a Pioneer VSX-817-S 7.1 receiver for $146. I've had the sub for several weeks now, and I just ordered the receiver, which appears to be very similar to the Pioneer 1017, except missing the special THX processing modes. I've had a 1017 for over a year now (it cost me $425) and rarely use THX. (Neither the 817 nor the 1017 process sound over HDMI and neither decodes the new HD Dolby and DTS codecs.)


----------



## jk04523

Ok, after trying to use the z-5500 sub with the receiver I picked up, I think I'm just going to break down and try to pick up a cheap sub from a local shop around here. I want the speakers in the office and I'm just not that happy with how it sounds hooked up to my receiver.


The other 4 speakers are sounding quite good. Definitely better than the little z-5500 speakers. And those speakers actually sound pretty good in my office.


I'm going to look around this weekend for a nice center channel (with matching LR so that I can pick them up in a year or so) and the subwoofer.


Thanks for the help Greg.


----------



## zurc

I have an Onkyo 606 currently hooked up to bookshelf speakers and sub of an old Kenwood HTIB. I have to admit that the system sounds a lot better after after I replaced the receiver (VR-407) and ran Audyssey. I would like to replace the speakers w/ a sat system and my options have narrowed down to the Energy Take Classic 5.1 or the Mirage Nanosat 5.1. Both of these are currently on sale at KenCrane's. I have a small to medium area with one side opening up to the dining room. The system is being used 50-50 on movies and moderate music. I'd like to hear some views to help me in choosing w/ one would be a better match? Thanks - this is an awesome thread.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zurc* /forum/post/16348628
> 
> 
> I have an Onkyo 606 currently hooked up to bookshelf speakers and sub of an old Kenwood HTIB. I have to admit that the system sounds a lot better after after I replaced the receiver (VR-407) and ran Audyssey. I would like to replace the speakers w/ a sat system and my options have narrowed down to the Energy Take Classic 5.1 or the Mirage Nanosat 5.1. Both of these are currently on sale at KenCrane's. I have a small to medium area with one side opening up to the dining room. The system is being used 50-50 on movies and moderate music. I'd like to hear some views to help me in choosing w/ one would be a better match? Thanks - this is an awesome thread.



They're very different and it'd be difficult to compare. You really need to make a choice based on what you hear in person as the Nanosats are kind of unique to other speakers. I personally like the Nanosats for music but they're not for everyone.


Having said that; why are you considering such tiny speakers? If you really want to enjoy music 50% like you said I'm afraid you might be disappointed in the end with these small systems. The Nanosats and the Energy Take Classics are very small and, while I think they're probably the better small speakers around, they might sound thin listening to music.


If this is a matter of needing small speakers due to WAF or you just want something unobtrusive, there are some good options. The Mirage Omnisats are a bit bigger but will give a bit more depth to the sound in music. Energy also has some good speakers with 4.5 drivers that might sound good (I've never heard them) and yet be small enough to not look too obtrusive in your room. If size isn't a concern look at the Energy C-100 if you want a good budget set. If you can spend more there are, of course, better speakers out there. In any case, Vanns.com carries both Mirage and Energy at a good price.


----------



## zurc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/16348670
> 
> 
> They're very different and it'd be difficult to compare. You really need to make a choice based on what you hear in person as the Nanosats are kind of unique to other speakers. I personally like the Nanosats for music but they're not for everyone.
> 
> 
> Having said that; why are you considering such tiny speakers? If you really want to enjoy music 50% like you said I'm afraid you might be disappointed in the end with these small systems. The Nanosats and the Energy Take Classics are very small and, while I think they're probably the better small speakers around, they might sound thin listening to music.
> 
> 
> If this is a matter of needing small speakers due to WAF or you just want something unobtrusive, there are some good options. The Mirage Omnisats are a bit bigger but will give a bit more depth to the sound in music. Energy also has some good speakers with 4.5 drivers that might sound good (I've never heard them) and yet be small enough to not look too obtrusive in your room. If size isn't a concern look at the Energy C-100 if you want a good budget set. If you can spend more there are, of course, better speakers out there. In any case, Vanns.com carries both Mirage and Energy at a good price.



Thank you for the quick response. Main issue is space (and WAF of course). The 3 fronts are now lined up horizontally in the shelves of the TV stand which is just 5ft wide. I have barely space on the sides for speaker stands. I was thinking sats would give me better definition plus the option of wall mounting in the future. I could be wrong. The nanosat is currently at $400 while the Take Classic is at $300. I could go for the C-100's, C-C100, C-50's combo but I would have to put them in the same place and horizontal configuration my speakers are at right now. With that in mind, do you think this is still the better option?


----------



## ickysmits

It has been a while since I had the Nanosats, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to put them inside anything. If I'm reading your post correctly it sounds like they'll go inside a shelving unit? The Nanosats need to be in the open to do their omni thing.


Anyway, I was concerned about music with small speakers - it's just something to think about. I don't think it's a good idea to place the C-100s horizontally - how would these fit your space and budget:
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 

There are, of course, other mini monitors at higher price points. Or the Nanosats and Energy Take Classics are good too. Just consider that smaller speakers have an inherent limitation due to their size.


----------



## zurc

Even the c-50's would have to go in horizontal. The nanosats and Takes are short enough to be placed on the top of the TV stand right in front of the TV for now. I might look into wall mounting them in the future.


----------



## ickysmits

Ah, well then either the Nanosat or Take is the ticket (provided the Nanosats are out in the open). I like the Nanosats but I realize they're not for everyone. If you have a Best Buy they might still have them so you can listen. There are tons of reviews online for the Nanosats and the Takes have a fair amount as well. They're both good choices, sorry I can't be more help.


----------



## zurc

Thanks for your insights. I probably will be going with the nanosats.


----------



## TheMetetron

Ok, I need help getting a receiver.


I am buying 4 Energy C-100s, a Energy C-C100, and a Energy ESW-8.


Total is going to come to $426.


I have no idea what a good reciever would be for this. Input devices are going to be x264/DTS 1080p video files and some FLAC audio files from my HTPC and a Nintendo Wii.


Suggestions?



Also, I wouldn't mind upgrading to 2 C-300s, but I can't find the Black ones for the $125 price anywhere. Is that gone now?


----------



## vinipux77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheMetetron* /forum/post/16367073
> 
> 
> Ok, I need help getting a receiver.
> 
> 
> I am buying 4 Energy C-100s, a Energy C-C100, and a Energy ESW-8.
> 
> 
> Total is going to come to $426.
> 
> ....
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> ....



What's your receiver budget? Do you need the new HD audio processing or multichannel analog input (for something like DVD-Audio or SACD)?


----------



## GregLee

Here's my budget 7.1 system for a second room, with money saved by buying a previous generation receiver and used speakers:
Code:


Code:


$146 Pioneer VSX-817-S, 90W X 7 channels
$ 39 sub, used, JBL PSW-1200, 12" 120 Watts
$ 25 center, used, JBL EC25, 5" woofers X 2 + 0.25" tweeter
$ 39 fronts, used, DCM KX-12 X 2, 12" woofer + 6" mid + 0.75" tweeter
$ 25 side surrounds, used, JBL E10 X 2, 4" woofer + 0.75" tweeter
$ 10 back surrounds, used, Sony SS-L80 X 2, 15cm woofer + 5cm tweeter + 2cm supertweeter
---
$284 total


----------



## Veeper

Page one needs some major updates. Clocking in at 106 pages, maybe we should start a new HTiB alternative thread?


----------



## WWIII

Haven't read anything recently on wireless rear speakers. Is there anything good out there yet..hell I would be happy with decent.


Just about have the boss (wife) convinced to let me get home theatre 5.1 is my goal but will pbly get a 7.1 receiver. I really want HDMI pass thru audio. What is recommended here? Still the 606?


----------



## bf1

Veeper. I agree. I just found this site. Read this thread and saw 106 and nearly died. With my dial-up connection, it would take me two days to read the thread! Having 106 pages is basically being an FAQ masquerading as a thread. Still, I guess you can always just hit last if you want and skip all the stuff. Not a big deal either way, just saying...


----------



## bf1

HELP!


If y'all read my profile, you'll see I am extragalactically out of my element on this site. Anyway, my DVD player just broke so now I'm down to a separate "A/V system" and "audio system". My "A/V" is a 22"-or-so flat-screen TV with several different input types and an old, breaking-down VHS. When my (former) DVD broke tonight, that was the last straw. I knew I needed something more. I felt like Beavis when his television was stolen. (Am I dating myself?) Well, actually no I didn't feel that bad. I usually web surf and sometimes read.


Still, my wife and I don't have cable or high-speed internet and broadcast television doesn't penetrate our apartment walls apparently. My separate stereo system is a 1982 Yorx with barely 1/2 a speaker left. Listening to one bad speaker of AC/DC can be pretty sad when all you've pretty much got is a bass guitar thrumming and the other channel is silent, so I am finally ready to "move up" in the world. It seems spending all your money on skiing and other fun things can leave your music gear pretty worn out and ancient.


I'm thinking of a budget of max $700 to patch together the TV and VCR with new stuff I need to buy. I need a video disc of some type (Blu-Ray?), 2.0 sound system, AM/FM reciever, and phonograph (yes, I said that), along with potential to upgrade or add surround sound and add'l components. (I don't know if that means I also need some kind of A/V receiver, especially if I want to add digital personal (iPod-style) players some day?). One more thing - I want at least two more auxiliary (wireless) speakers in the bedroom and an option for two in the basement. I want to do chores in multiple rooms when I listen to a ballgame or music and I don't want to have the audio cranked so high it is bothering my neighbors, let alone my wife. So, at least two remote auxiliary wireless speakers (not surround sound) with option to expand.


Is this possible for


----------



## ickysmits

@bf1 - I saw this the other day and it looks like it was made specifically for you: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...hnology/1.html 


You're going to have a heck of a time getting wireless speakers into the bedroom and another set in the basement. It would add quite a bit to the cost and might not work very well. This thing is set up with all the speakers you'd need for extra rooms, allbeit, clock radio quality speakers. But it comes with 5 clients so you could add them to extra rooms, scatter them around the house, and/or put a few in the same room for some kind of effect without running any extra wires except a power cord. For less than $500 you're set - the receiver looks sturdy and has some good heft at 30lbs and you'd be capitalizing on an idea that doesn't seem like it ever took-off for the price they originally wanted ($1300 MSRP with only 1 client).


I have no idea how well audio over power lines would sound or how well this works, it seems unconventional but it's probably a better solution than wireless. It works by sending the audio signal through the power lines and decoding it at the other end with the client. I'm sure there are some limitations but check it out and see if they'd be significant to you. It seems like the main limitation is that it only sends analog signals to the clients - if you connect a DVD player with the digital out for example, you'd also need to connect the analog out if you wanted to hear it in another room with a client. The receiver has 4 digital inputs, pre-outs for an external amp if you ever needed more power, and analog inputs you could use if you got a blu-ray player (make sure you get a player with analog outs). The only thing it doesn't have is HDMI but who cares, it looks like it solves your other requirements so well. It looks pretty good for a receiver but a generation behind in functionality; it lacks HDMI and new audio codecs but I don't think that's too big of a deal as a lot of that is unnecessary hype anyway.


The only other thing you'd need is a pair of speakers for the main room but shouldn't be a problem with $200. It's more difficult because there's a lot of individual taste and you should really hear before you buy. Check out some of the KEF IQ speakers at accessories4less, those are on clearance and are good value. I recently heard some Wharfedale speakers and they sounded nice, are designed well, and the price is excellent from Sound and Vision for the Diamond 9.1 and Diamond 9.2 . If you're not crazy about the Marantz idea, accessories4less is at least a good resource for refurbished as they're authorized and products will come with some sort of warranty.


Product page: http://us.marantz.com/Products/1545.asp# 

Reviews:
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...-31933397.html 
http://us.marantz.com/DAvEDSoundVisionMay06.pdf 
http://us.marantz.com/MarantDAvEDNYT2-9-06.pdf 
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trad...plc-technology 


If you're just going to hook up a 22" TV why bother with Blu-ray? A regular DVD player woul do fine. Maybe consider a BD player if you get a bigger LCD or plasma and then you can sometimes find a special deal that includes a BD player along with the TV. My suggestion would be to get a matching Marantz DVD player from the same dealer to save on shipping, it looks good with the receiver, and may be better integrated with the client units (you may be better able to control it as a CD player from the client in another room - but I don't know): http://www.accessories4less.com/make...n-Sale-/1.html 


If you can do without support for the exta rooms you can get a cheaper receiver and spend more on some quality speakers. Keep in mind that I've never heard this Marantz thing or played with the audio over power lines and I'm just recomending based on something I saw online, but it just looks like a cool gadget for the right person. Another plus I forgot to mention is that it comes with a learning remote. Here are some pictures of the Marantz and the client in the wild:




















...and, since I've already gotten carried away, some pix using it in different ways:


----------



## bf1

Icky, The Marantz seems worth checking out. I've got other things to attend to right now, unfortunately, so I'll have to get back to the issue later. Thanks for the idea. Not sure how many hours I would spend churning through miscellaneous websites before I found that.


One curious thing - what is with the "stereo" speakers 1 foot apart. I see that a lot on portable sound systems. Is that worthwhile? Do people notice the "stereo" when they are not right next to it, or is that marketing, and is it worth the cost of an extra speaker instead of a better speaker (or 1 mid plus 1 tweet?). Ah, that's probably in another thread or forum somewhere.


Thanks again.


----------



## Josh7289

I've been thinking about buying an Onkyo HT-S5200 7.1 HTIB for a while now, and since it's only about $500, I figured I'd just live with the 'low quality' speakers, since I didn't want to spend much more than that.


However, after reading this thread a little, I realized that I could just get a good quality receiver and stereo speakers right now, and just build up my system bit by bit in the future. I may or may not save money by doing stereo only right now, but I would probably get better sound quality.


So my question is: Can anyone recommend a very solid 7.1 receiver (or 5.1, I guess) and a pair of very solid stereo speakers (would I need a subwoofer, too?) for someone who doesn't want to spend a lot? Maybe $500 max? I have to save up for this, so the more expensive it is, the longer I have to wait.


I know this is subjective, but hopefully there's some consensus on what's 'best' ('most accurate') in this price range.


----------



## [email protected]

I saw them a while back at monoprice while shopping for something else. These are in-wall speakers
Code:


Code:


http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10837

If anyone of you had pulled the trigger on these, can you share your thoughts. They have some great reviews on monoprice.


Thanks

Sudip


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheMetetron* /forum/post/16367073
> 
> 
> Ok, I need help getting a receiver.
> 
> 
> I am buying 4 Energy C-100s, a Energy C-C100, and a Energy ESW-8.
> 
> 
> Total is going to come to $426.
> 
> 
> I have no idea what a good reciever would be for this. Input devices are going to be x264/DTS 1080p video files and some FLAC audio files from my HTPC and a Nintendo Wii.
> 
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> 
> *Also, I wouldn't mind upgrading to 2 C-300s, but I can't find the Black ones for the $125 price anywhere. Is that gone now*?



$129
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


----------



## solarfuse

Hi, I'm a bit of a novice here. I'm looking to build a budget 3/3.1 system for my parents. I don't really want to spend more than $500 including blu-ray player, receiver, and speakers (not even sure if this is possible). The room is 12x16. The video source is a 40" LCD which has terrible speakers (for some DVD's I've had to max out the TV's volume and I still could barely understand the voices on the soundtrack). The setup will mainly be used for blu-ray, dvd, and regular tv.


1) Speakers

My last personal setup was an HTPC with z-5300 5.1 speakers that I purchased many years ago for only $50 after rebates. I was thinking of simply going with a 3 speaker setup (instead of 3.1) because regardless of how low I put the bass, subwoofers tend to be really audible in the floors above or below the entertainment room. I've previously owned an old 100-150w Optimus sub (radio shack brand) and of course the z-5300 sub. So unless the majority are really against the idea of omitting the sub, I might spend the money on better front/center speakers.


2) Receiver

I don't really know anything about the various receivers other than the fact that some may be able to decode dolby digital, dts, etc. while others may not (?). I'm not sure how the 3/3.1 setup affects things as I've only owned 5.1 in the past.


3) Speaker wire

Yeah I'm a novice. The last time I ran "real" speaker wire was when I was 12 years old







I have no idea what gauge wire to use - I just remember I did a really terrible job cutting and twisting the wire... it probably really affected the audio. Do any of these speakers have simple plug-in jobs?


4) Blu-ray player

I know this isn't the proper forum, but if you can also recommend a good (but cheap) blu-ray player that would make great. I don't really know much about blu-ray. I can't imagine there's much difference quality-wise between different models other than additional features. After all, the content is on the discs and they don't have to "upscale" to fake a higher resolution...


5) Setup questions

Finally, I've been out of the scene for a while. My z-5300 htpc setup simply used a DVI connection directly from the computer to a projector. I've never used HDMI, but from what I understand it's simply DVI + audio. I don't really understand how this works. If I have a blu-ray player, do I have to run two HDMI cables from the blu-ray player (one to the TV, second to the receiver)? Or do I run one HDMI connection from the blu-ray player to the audio receiver and the second from the audio receiver to the TV? I've never used the video input/output jacks on an audio receiver - it never really made sense to me...







What's the point of HDMI if 90% of the time audio and video are fed to different hardware?


Thanks.. Sorry for the dumb questions.


----------



## WatchdogXC

I've been browsing these forums for a long time just like I did in the LCD TV section before getting my 46" Samsung A650 and am very happy with that. Now I've been trying to wrap my head around sound to get. I'd have it in a bedroom with that TV and at first was looking at some Onkyo packages but am not leaning towards the Onkyo 607 receiver and perhaps the Energy Take Classic to go with it. I've also been impressed with the price from world wide stereo on the Jamo speakers there although they are rather large for a bedroom.


Also, one thing I'm thinking already is that I'll need to move my TV out of the corner of my room in order to get the most out of surround sound. I have a PS3 and wouldn't mind going 7.1 as well for a speaker set up. How hard would it be to add 2 speakers to the Energy Take series? My budget is probably less than $1000 but I may be able to go over, it is more self control than anything.


----------



## WWIII




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WatchdogXC* /forum/post/16510848
> 
> 
> I've been browsing these forums for a long time just like I did in the LCD TV section before getting my 46" Samsung A650 and am very happy with that. Now I've been trying to wrap my head around sound to get. I'd have it in a bedroom with that TV and at first was looking at some Onkyo packages but am not leaning towards the Onkyo 607 receiver and perhaps the Energy Take Classic to go with it. I've also been impressed with the price from world wide stereo on the Jamo speakers there although they are rather large for a bedroom.
> 
> 
> Also, one thing I'm thinking already is that I'll need to move my TV out of the corner of my room in order to get the most out of surround sound. I have a PS3 and wouldn't mind going 7.1 as well for a speaker set up. How hard would it be to add 2 speakers to the Energy Take series? My budget is probably less than $1000 but I may be able to go over, it is more self control than anything.



You should head over to the Energy owners forum. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630450 I started out looking at the takes and ended up with a Energy CC-100 center with 4 C-100 surround. Very happy so far..


BTW completed system with a Yamaha 665 and A Bic F12 sub for $930.00 total system cost


----------



## tennisguy1

Can anyone provide advice on the following..


Room 17' by 13', 8'h. 60/40 HT music. 5.1 is fine, 7.1 is bonus for future.


Take Classic 5.0 $199 (would love Energy RC mini set but seems to $$ at $99 per speaker, need WAF factor)


Sub ? considering TSC T250, $225 with coupon, HSU STF 1, ED A-250 $325, X-sub 159 open box. (need this to be fairly small and cover the higher frequencies the Take classic won't cover. Also would like a decent musical sub but with lowest extention possible.


AVR? HK 254 refurb about $260 shipped, or Denon 1909 refurb, 325 +ship when in stock, Denon 590 at $285, or pioneer 819 at $250. (I like the idea of Audussy or or similar functions but not really sure if it matters at my deployment level) Need 3 HDMI, but not upconversion, my 52 Samsung does an incredible job scaling.


Thanks in advance for any advice & experience on the above.


----------



## ickysmits

wwstereo.com has a good price on an Energy C-50 set for $400: http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/ 

...better than the Takes and not much more expensive.


----------



## Chuck Rampart

I've been told that a good receiver with just decent L and R channel speakers will sound better than any HTIB setup. How true is that?


----------



## ickysmits

Listening to music is a million times more enjoyable with good speakers starting @ about $400 pair and up. You won't get a surround effect, though, if that's important to you.


----------



## gray81

Posted this message as a new thread and it was suggested I post here.


Just finishing up a basement renovation and need some advice. The space is not very large. 12 x 30 but the TV area is at one end so more like 12 x 15. I was going to go with a 2.1 HTIB such as bose cinemate but after browsing on this site I think I can do better with a receiver, 2 speakers and subwoofer. I plan to get most of the components and TV at BB because I can trade in my air miles which gives me around $1800. Will likely get a Samsung 40 inch 120hz TV which takes up about 1200. Went with 40 inch because the TV stand will only accommodate 42 inch max. The rest is for speakers and blue ray player so not much of a budget. Maybe I should get the 60 hz TV but it seems like 120 is the way to go for spotrs, blue ray and HD TV. So I am thinking about the Pioneer VSX-519 for a receiver (199), 2 Polk T15 bookshelf speakers for front Left and Right (105/pr). I read a lot of good things about the Dayton sub-100 HT and thought I would get that from Amazon. I went with bookshelf speakers because the space is not too big and my wife would prefer that. I think they will fit nicely on top of the end towers of the TV unit which are 48 inches high. Am I selling myself short with the polk speakers or will they do the job? Sorry for such a long post and hope this is the right area for it.


----------



## ickysmits

Every step up makes a difference at that price. Check out the Monitor series available from Newegg – they’re an older version of the TSi series at the same price as the T15. Or go with the TSi (from Newegg)….

Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=polk+monitor


----------



## tetsuwanatom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennisguy1* /forum/post/16642459
> 
> 
> Can anyone provide advice on the following..
> 
> 
> Room 17' by 13', 8'h. 60/40 HT music. 5.1 is fine, 7.1 is bonus for future.
> 
> 
> Take Classic 5.0 $199 (would love Energy RC mini set but seems to $$ at $99 per speaker, need WAF factor)
> 
> 
> Sub ? considering TSC T250, $225 with coupon, HSU STF 1, ED A-250 $325, X-sub 159 open box. (need this to be fairly small and cover the higher frequencies the Take classic won't cover. Also would like a decent musical sub but with lowest extention possible.
> 
> 
> AVR? HK 254 refurb about $260 shipped, or Denon 1909 refurb, 325 +ship when in stock, Denon 590 at $285, or pioneer 819 at $250. (I like the idea of Audussy or or similar functions but not really sure if it matters at my deployment level) Need 3 HDMI, but not upconversion, my 52 Samsung does an incredible job scaling.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice & experience on the above.



I'm looking at the Pioneer, too. I have an older model, pre-HDMI which sounds fine in my room which is a bit larger than yours. The speaker set is also Pioneer. I bought a Sony STR-DH700 and the HDMI out stopped sending video after a day. Whatever caused it I sent it back, and I plan on getting that Pioneer. I doubt I'll spend as much on speakers as you, as my volume rarely gets above a certain level (kids on one side, a very touchy neighbor on the other).


I don't know about the flexibility of the EQ on that model, though, so if you're concerned abt music maybe give that a consideration.


----------



## Sibilance

Ickysmits,


I was originally going to buy a HTIB 7.1 set up, but based on the postings you've made here, I went with a Denon AVR 790 receiver, and a 7.1 speaker set comprised of the 5.1 C-50 Energy set you mentioned, plus an additional pair of C-50s.


I know it won't make audiophile hearts soar and sing. However I tend to buy Audiovisual equipment every /ten/ to fifteen years or so. This set up will be replacing an ancient JVC receiver and set of 5.1 speakers. The only reason I'm replacing those is because the reciever itself is starting to flake out. Heck, I only bought a new television a year and a half back, because my 11 year old CRT died on me.


I know, I know... go for 2.1 set up first, etc etc. However I /hate/ shopping for AV stuff. I hate it. Did I mention I hate it? I hate it so. So I do it once, then go on with my life until something breaks. I also have grown fond of surround sound, so it was all at once or nothing.


So far I'm really pleased! Thought I'd chime in from the stand point of someone who merely wants to get everthing done and move on with their life. If any of you are lurking, I hope this helps: it really /is/ okay to throw together a complete system, if you aren't obsessed with the best and greatest.


----------



## ickysmits

That’s a nice choice of equipment, I’m sure you’ll be happy for a while. The C-50 is such a cool little speaker; it’s small enough that it can be placed easily around a room and not stick out – and it’s big enough that the crossover to the subwoofer can be set at 80Hz for an overall fuller sound than most small satellite speakers. They’re a bargain at the price right now. I hope you enjoy them!


----------



## wynton

General question here:


I've been wavering between buying separate components, or getting an HTIB or just a soundbar.


My decision might be easier if I understood how much I could or could not just add-on to whatever I initially get.


For example, if I start with a 2.1 setup, I assume that I can always add 2-4 speakers later. But does the potential of adding speakers later affect what the first set of speakers should be?


Similarly, can I get an HTIB with 5 speakers, with an option to get 2 others later?


And would it be silly to get a soundbar (like the Sony CT-100), expecting that I could add speakers to that as well later?


edit: I suppose I should note that the main purpose of the audio equipment, for me, is to watch movies on blue-ray and tv; I don't envision using this room that much for music, though I suppose it's possible. I would like to get the surround sound effect eventually. I'm also not sure how the wife will feel about wires, which is why the soundbar is a consideration.


----------



## Air Supply

For my basement, I went with


yamaha v661 receiver

panasonic bluray player

yambeka 5.1 speaker system

Tad Subwoofer


That's a good system for me, enough to make the wife complain.


But, I've just ordered two more BIC F-12 subwoofers because I need more....


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wynton* /forum/post/16736773
> 
> 
> For example, if I start with a 2.1 setup, I assume that I can always add 2-4 speakers later. But does the potential of adding speakers later affect what the first set of speakers should be?



With the front three, yes. The center channel speaker should match the front left and right speakers. Ideally, they should be the same, but you may have to go with a center channel from the same maker and series if a regular front speaker will interfere with your display. It's a compromise there, but most go ahead with it (I did.)


Surround speakers should at least match each other. Again, it is best if all match, but not critical. The fronts are more critical in terms of matching.



> Quote:
> Similarly, can I get an HTIB with 5 speakers, with an option to get 2 others later?



Yes. Again, best they match, if possible.



> Quote:
> And would it be silly to get a soundbar (like the Sony CT-100), expecting that I could add speakers to that as well later?



I don't think it has outputs for speakers. It's really a one-unit solution, including "receiver." Might check its thread.


----------



## virus

A coworker has asked me to build him a system with a $2000 budget. He wants a 5.1 setup with Receiver and Blu-Ray player and I was wanting some opinions. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## x fanatic

I have been browsing the site and have come up with some very useful info. I originally planned to get the Onkyo HTIB 9100THX but like many have become convinced I can put something better together for around the same price. I want something that I can hook up a 7.1 system to in the living room and run 2 separate speakers to my porch for outdoor listening. This would be a separate listening area and these 2 could be purchased later. I like movies but I want this for primarily music. Rockin' music. I know I'm not going to get a crazy system for the $800-1000 but I want to spend my money wisely and purchase the speakers I want the 1st time.


I'm alright with towers and have plenty of nice area to mount speakers near the ceiling. I don't have much of a preference on what type of speakers they are but more of what I can afford.


I'm terrible at deciphering what the numbers mean on all these things and I've never dealt with them before. I can set-up a system but am not the greatest at tweaking.


Room: It is setup up a little weird as the house is an open floor plan. The living room area is 25ft X 13ft (9ft ceilings)but it opens into the dining room area.


So Far:

PS3

42 in Panasonic Plasma


I like Onkyo AVRs and have seen some great deals on the energy speakers.

These are some that peaked my interest.

Speakers:

Energy C300 $119 a piece ($240)

[ (4)C-50 5.0 Speaker Package with C-C50 Center Channel - $250


subwoofer PA-120 $230 ebay



AVR:

onkyo 606 or 607 I believe??I think I've seen this/these for $330 or so but I don't know what would match up well.


I would not be upgrading the system later. Instead I would like to purchase the Energy and AVR now and maybe wait a bit for a deal on a sub. I'm more than open to suggestions. I'm not sure how much the Energy C300 towers would make much difference with the C-50's or not. From the numbers I'm reading it looks like a lot.


----------



## nddomer08

From what I can tell guys like me are a dime a dozen on this forum, but I was hoping that some of you audio graybeards on here will be able to help a newbie out.


I've got a budget of between $1,000 and $1500 for a solid system that will last me a good long while. My previous setup just went to goodwill and was a Sony HTIB that I bought back in 1996.


My current equipment is a Sony 60A3000 TV with a Direct TV HD DVR and a Sony BluRay player. (thinking about getting an XBox too) Pretty simple setup, they're all just hooked together via HDMI and I'm using the speakers in the TV since I gave away my old HTIB.


I want to get a receiver that can do solid HDMI switching for video and audio, I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to troubleshooting these things and if it gets more complicated than plugging some HDMI cables in and following the simple in-out logic I'll go play in traffic. I want nice full solid sound. I know that everyone has their own preferences, but I really am a newbie and probably couldn't hear the differences that you guys can.


I was checking out a Yamaha RX-V665 and Two Klipsch RF-52's or 62's. I also would like to get a nice solid sub and center channel.


By no means assume I'm stuck on any of these items, I just went to BB and a local stereo store and was looking around. The sad truth is that I'll probably go out and buy what you guys suggest since I don't know a whole lot about the topic, so please any advice you have would be much appreciated. (I will do some followup research so I can compare your suggestions, but beyond that I wouldn't know what I'm looking at)


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nddomer08* /forum/post/16813062
> 
> 
> From what I can tell guys like me are a dime a dozen on this forum, but I was hoping that some of you audio graybeards on here will be able to help a newbie out.
> 
> 
> I've got a budget of between $1,000 and $1500 for a solid system that will last me a good long while. My previous setup just went to goodwill and was a Sony HTIB that I bought back in 1996.
> 
> 
> My current equipment is a Sony 60A3000 TV with a Direct TV HD DVR and a Sony BluRay player. (thinking about getting an XBox too) Pretty simple setup, they're all just hooked together via HDMI and I'm using the speakers in the TV since I gave away my old HTIB.
> 
> 
> I want to get a receiver that can do solid HDMI switching for video and audio, I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to troubleshooting these things and if it gets more complicated than plugging some HDMI cables in and following the simple in-out logic I'll go play in traffic. I want nice full solid sound. I know that everyone has their own preferences, but I really am a newbie and probably couldn't hear the differences that you guys can.
> 
> 
> I was checking out a Yamaha RX-V665 and Two Klipsch RF-52's or 62's. I also would like to get a nice solid sub and center channel.
> 
> 
> By no means assume I'm stuck on any of these items, I just went to BB and a local stereo store and was looking around. The sad truth is that I'll probably go out and buy what you guys suggest since I don't know a whole lot about the topic, so please any advice you have would be much appreciated. (I will do some followup research so I can compare your suggestions, but beyond that I wouldn't know what I'm looking at)




First off, welcome!


It sounds like you're on the right track with a reasonable budget to get some nice speakers that will sound great and last a good long time. You should be posting this in the speaker section, however, so you can get more input on the speakers - the most important part of the system. To keep them from going on wild tangents you should give them some basic information:


1. Budget

2. Room size

3. Preference of speaker type (satellite, bookshelf, floorstanding, etc)

4. Listening preferences. (what % movies, music, tv)

5. Where you live (just in case someone is familiar with your area and can advise some audio shops to visit)


The receiver should be easier as there are a lot fewer choices whithin certain price ranges. The V665 is a fine receiver but I really like Audyssey features, but that's just me.


In the meantime, here are just a few of many ideas to chew on -


SVS
http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm 


Aperion (they'll let you listen in home and will pay return shipping if you're not happy)
http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/...ystems,33.aspx 


Mirage
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ge-omni-550-ch 
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...rage-omni-150c 
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...e-omni-c150-ch 


Warfedale
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...duct/View/2987 
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...ation/2829&2D3 
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto.../View/2620&2D2 
http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto.../View/2614&2D2 


The downside to my list is that they won't be available locally for you to listen. That will always be my first recommendation but I understand that it's not always possible.


----------



## nddomer08

That's some good info. I wondered if I might be stretching the thread a little because of the $$$ amount I'm looking to spend. I'll break my question into two parts and post in different threads. I'm a little concerned with picking out the receiver, just want to make sure I don't get something that introduces any delay in the audio/video sync or any other video related issues in the switching.


Thanks for the links to the speakers on the other sites. What the heck is up with the price breaks on the Mirage speakers? Looks like some good deals.


----------



## ickysmits

You shouldn't have those kinds of problems with new receivers, but definitely take the time to learn about the different features. The Mirage Omni series is older but they' come new from Vanns - probably they have an arrangement to get rid of old new stock, but I don't really know. There isn't a lot of information about them but several have reported they are very happy with them. You can get an idea of how Mirage speakers in general are unique with the omni thing and listen to some (newer models) at Best Buy. I like Mirage speakers a lot.


----------



## catire

I´m helping my brother pick out parts for his home theater system, since we are both new to these kind of things i´d like to get your opinion on the items we have selected:

Logitech Harmony One Advanced Universal Remote

Klipsch HD 500 5.1 Speakers with Sanus Systems Wms5-B Wall Or Ceiling Speaker Mounts

Denon AVR1910

Logitech Harmony Adapter for Playstation 3

PlayStation 3 80GB


If you have any comments or suggestions i´d really appreciate it

P.S. His budget is like $1500-$1800


----------



## indy_dude

I had my eye on the Energy Classic 5.0 set, but I see that they are no longer selling it at vanns.com So what is the best replacement for the Energy Classic


----------



## lakesidejim

Been lurking here for a while and have now come up with some ideas for an AVR, based on posts from everyone. At first, I was considering one of the Samsung HTIB's, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Samsung receiver THD specs were pretty bad, and that the Yamaha line, watt for watt, had the better THD specs. So, I began looking at the Yamaha--first, the YHT-591, then I began thinking more about choosing my own speakers. THEN, someone posted something about Pioneer. I have long had a love for Pioneer components, as I am STILL using my TANK of a laser disc player, the Elite CLD-97.


So, here are the two receivers currently under consideration: I would appreciate your opinions and recommendations.


Yamaha RX-V465 and the Pioneer VSX-819H-K.


I lean toward the Yamaha, because of the larger number of HDMI and other A/V inputs. (This unit will be replacing my OLD separates.) I have as inputs a Toshiba HD-3 HD DVD player (yeah, I know, but I'm not interested in paying $10 more per disc for Blu-Ray; and, the Toshiba up-converts VERY nicely), an old Mits editing VCR, Philips DVD recorder, the Pioneer CLD 97, and a DISH SD receiver. Output is to a Mitsubishi HC-4900 projector (1080p).


As I understand, both the Yamaha and Pioneer AVR's decode audio from the HDMI input.


I have neither the interest nor the space for a 7.1 system.


Thanks for your input, gentlemen (ladies, too!).


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indy_dude* /forum/post/16874106
> 
> 
> I had my eye on the Energy Classic 5.0 set, but I see that they are no longer selling it at vanns.com So what is the best replacement for the Energy Classic



Its there now.....
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search 


and other places too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269004 
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/


----------



## G-star

That Energy 5.0 set looks decent and is at a great pricepoint. I guess that has replaced the famed Athena Micras (I believe they are part of the same company).


Pair that set with a good entry level $200 sub and a nice refurb'd receiver and you will have yourself a true HTIB killer for ~ $600.


----------



## mndave

Short question:


Infinity TSS-800 + Denon 1709 vs. Onkyo 3200 / 5200. Cost would be the same (cheaper with the 3200). Is there a clear winner?


Now the details:


Setting up a home theater / hang out room. The room is 11x17 with an 8 foot ceiling. It all walls on all four sides (but with three doors!), as it is somewhat of an extension off the back of the house. The viewing distance to the TV is about 13 feet.


Like most people here I'd like a nice system that will be fun without spending a ton of money. I have a firm size requirement on the front and center speakers. I am building the entertainment center the shell of an old fireplace. I only have 7.5 inches on each size of the TV. Mounting the speakers outside of this shell is not going to be okay. I have slightly less clearance beneath the TV for the center.


I already have a Panny TC-P46G10 and their 60-series Blu-Ray player. Also attached will be a Wii and a Mac Mini.


I had been looking at HTIB, originally an Onkyo 3200 or 5200. But I decided to complicate my life a little bit.


While at today I picked up an Infinity TSS-800 floor model set that was on clearance for $250. These speakers seem to get mixed reviews, and they are returnable. I hooked two of them to a shelf system and put in a CD. They sound a little thin, although the sub is not hooked up.


This leaves me needing a receiver. To me the correct approach would be to wire everything to the TV:


Blu-Ray -> HDMI -> TV

Wii -> component -> TV

Mac Mini -> HDMI + Toslink -> TV

TV -> Toslink -> Receiver


This allows me to input select on the TV, adjust video settings to each source, and run the TV without needing the receiver on. I realize I wouldn't get the TrueHD from the Blu-Ray player, but to get that I would need a receiver with pass-through anyway (I think).


I would actually try to split the Toslink off of the Mac to send it to both the TV and the receiver. That would allow my to listen to music without needing the TV on.


With this approach I could get a fairly basic receiver (no up conversion, pass thru, etc) and still keep the wire count down. Is there something flawed with the logic?


The store I picked up the speakers had some Denon 1709s left over for the same price as the speaker. I realized I can get them a little cheaper online. They also had a 1908 for even less.


Considering my modest goals, is the TSS-800 paired with a basic receiver such as the 1709 a good approach? Should I keep things simple and save a little bit with the Onkyo 3200?


Thanks,

Dave


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mndave* /forum/post/16916128
> 
> 
> Short question:
> 
> 
> Infinity TSS-800 + Denon 1709 vs. Onkyo 3200 / 5200. Cost would be the same (cheaper with the 3200). Is there a clear winner?
> 
> 
> Now the details:
> 
> 
> Setting up a home theater / hang out room. The room is 11x17 with an 8 foot ceiling. It all walls on all four sides (but with three doors!), as it is somewhat of an extension off the back of the house. The viewing distance to the TV is about 13 feet.
> 
> 
> Like most people here I'd like a nice system that will be fun without spending a ton of money. I have a firm size requirement on the front and center speakers. I am building the entertainment center the shell of an old fireplace. I only have 7.5 inches on each size of the TV. Mounting the speakers outside of this shell is not going to be okay. I have slightly less clearance beneath the TV for the center.
> 
> 
> I already have a Panny TC-P46G10 and their 60-series Blu-Ray player. Also attached will be a Wii and a Mac Mini.
> 
> 
> I had been looking at HTIB, originally an Onkyo 3200 or 5200. But I decided to complicate my life a little bit.
> 
> 
> While at today I picked up an Infinity TSS-800 floor model set that was on clearance for $250. These speakers seem to get mixed reviews, and they are returnable. I hooked two of them to a shelf system and put in a CD. They sound a little thin, although the sub is not hooked up.
> 
> 
> This leaves me needing a receiver. To me the correct approach would be to wire everything to the TV:
> 
> 
> Blu-Ray -> HDMI -> TV
> 
> Wii -> component -> TV
> 
> Mac Mini -> HDMI + Toslink -> TV
> 
> TV -> Toslink -> Receiver
> 
> 
> This allows me to input select on the TV, adjust video settings to each source, and run the TV without needing the receiver on. I realize I wouldn't get the TrueHD from the Blu-Ray player, but to get that I would need a receiver with pass-through anyway (I think).
> 
> 
> I would actually try to split the Toslink off of the Mac to send it to both the TV and the receiver. That would allow my to listen to music without needing the TV on.
> 
> 
> With this approach I could get a fairly basic receiver (no up conversion, pass thru, etc) and still keep the wire count down. Is there something flawed with the logic?
> 
> 
> The store I picked up the speakers had some Denon 1709s left over for the same price as the speaker. I realized I can get them a little cheaper online. They also had a 1908 for even less.
> 
> 
> Considering my modest goals, is the TSS-800 paired with a basic receiver such as the 1709 a good approach? Should I keep things simple and save a little bit with the Onkyo 3200?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave



The Denon 1709 receiver is better than the 3200's receiver as it has some good Audyssey features that might be useful to you. Without looking, I think it has better connectivity too. Any small satellite system like the Infinity TSS-800 is going to sound thin through only two speakers without a sub. At least the TSS-800 comes with a powered sub, which is necessary for these small systems. Out of all of your choices, I'd stick with the Denon/Infinity.


----------



## samsurd2

JMO but the flaw I see in your proposed set-up involves running a digital audio cable from the TV back to the receiver. The output will be two channels only (except for multichannel audio coming into the TV via an antenna if you're getting your TV OTA). All multichannel audio being input to the TV via HDMI connections is downconverted to stereo. Having said that, you could simply connect the digital audio output from the Bluray player, Wii and Mac Mini to the receiver. That will still allow you to "tweak" video settings from each source. Like I said, JMO.


----------



## mndave

Thanks for the tip on the audio out from the TV.


I picked up a Denon 1709 today and will give it a shot tonight. I also picked up a set of Quintet SL speakers new in the box for $240. I will compare those with the TSS-800s, with a mind towards adding a sub to the Quintet SL if necessary.


-Dave


----------



## lakesidejim

I believe I read somewhere that most modern-day AVR's do NOT have S-Video jacks for their non-digital inputs. Is this correct?


Does anyone know of a good AVR that DOES have S-Video jacks as well as HDMI, and that decode audio from the HDMI inputs?


----------



## Tulpa

Yeah, they're phasing out S-video as more TVs and source components are moving to HDMI.


Onkyo's new x07 series (such as the TX-SR607) don't have them. The x06 series still do, and are still available (though probably not for too much longer.) The TX-SR606, 706 and on up do audio over HDMI.


----------



## lakesidejim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/16925173
> 
> 
> Yeah, they're phasing out S-video as more TVs and source components are moving to HDMI.
> 
> 
> Onkyo's new x07 series (such as the TX-SR607) don't have them. The x06 series still do, and are still available (though probably not for too much longer.) The TX-SR606, 706 and on up do audio over HDMI.



Thanks for the reply, and the tip on the Onkyo n06 series. I've always liked Onkyo gear, but lately had been looking at Pioneer and Yamaha. Now, it appears that Onkyo can fit my wants.


I have a neat little JVC 4-IN, 1-OUT switcher that switches S-Video, composite, and audio that I could use. But, I had hoped to let my new AVR do that for me. I've looked at a picture of the back panel, and it appears that the 706 has connectivity for just about everything I have.


I've read reviews on the 606 that weren't particularly complimentary of its video upscaling; and, since it only outputs 1080i, I wouldn't be interested. I have a Mitsubishi HC4900 projector that is 1080p. Also, the newer 806 got some bad ink for several things. So, it looks as if its the 706 for me. Amazon still lists them.


I doubt that heat will be a problem for me, as I have all my components on an open tower, with 12+ inches between shelves. I would most likely consign the 706 to a top shelf, with nothing but air above it.


I've been looking at the Polk Audio TSi200 for my mains, their matching center channel unit, and I believe the TSi100 for the rear. I have read that they have a "warm" bassy sound, which I like. I don't like "boom box" sound, but I've been a "big box" fan all my life. (My main music system has big Bozak Concert Grands.)


I don't really want to run side speakers, nor do I have a need for Zone 2 output. Would it hurt anything to leave those outputs not connected?


Thanks again.


Lakeside


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lakesidejim* /forum/post/16926829
> 
> 
> I don't really want to run side speakers, nor do I have a need for Zone 2 output. Would it hurt anything to leave those outputs not connected?



Not at all. You can just turn off all the unneeded speakers in the audio menu. Default is 7.1, but you can do 5.1, 3.1, and 2.1 with this AVR. And you can turn off the subwoofer, too, if you wanted to do 5.0 or something. Zone 2 is off by default, I think.



When you say side speakers (meaning surround), do you mean going 5.1 with just two surrounds, or do you mean 3.1 with no surrounds? Because in 5.1 you should turn off and not connect the surround BACK speakers and hook up the SIDE surround speakers, even if those end up being placed somewhere behind you. 7.1 adds back speakers to a 5.1 setup, (a common misconception is that it adds side speakers, but it doesn't.) Just an FYI. If you're going 3.1, with only fronts, then just turn off all surrounds and you're good to go.


----------



## lakesidejim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/16927585
> 
> 
> Not at all. You can just turn off all the unneeded speakers in the audio menu. Default is 7.1, but you can do 5.1, 3.1, and 2.1 with this AVR. And you can turn off the subwoofer, too, if you wanted to do 5.0 or something. Zone 2 is off by default, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> When you say side speakers (meaning surround), do you mean going 5.1 with just two surrounds, or do you mean 3.1 with no surrounds? Because in 5.1 you should turn off and not connect the surround BACK speakers and hook up the SIDE surround speakers, even if those end up being placed somewhere behind you. 7.1 adds back speakers to a 5.1 setup, (a common misconception is that it adds side speakers, but it doesn't.) Just an FYI. If you're going 3.1, with only fronts, then just turn off all surrounds and you're good to go.



Indeed, I had that misconception. I want the surround speakers to my rear. For a long time I've been using a Sony EP9ES surround sound processor, and selecting 5.1 Dolby Surround Mode. I had my Jamo Art speakers at rear corners of the listening area, pointed at an angle toward my listening "spot".


Is there really a significant difference between the sound delivered to the "side" vs. "rear" speakers in 7.1 mode? When listening/watching my favorite demo DVD's ("Top Gun" and "Blade Runner") in 5.1 mode, it was quite easy to note the rear information, even though I had balanced the output using the Sony's Test mode, and made sure the levels were not in the "plus" range on the rear speakers.


----------



## Tulpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lakesidejim* /forum/post/16929610
> 
> 
> Is there really a significant difference between the sound delivered to the "side" vs. "rear" speakers in 7.1 mode?



Well, it depends on the source, but some select Blu-Rays have 7.1 discrete, meaning they were mixed for 7.1 systems. There aren't very many 7.1 Blu-Rays at present, though.


5.1 material (the vast majority of DVDs and Blu-Rays) can be expanded to 7.1 using ProLogicIIx. Some "purists" maintain that you shouldn't watch DVDs that way, but I've yet to see any legit technical reason not to do so. It only derives two extra channels from the surrounds and doesn't touch any other channels. Plus, proponents of PrologicIIx say it provides the more encompassing experience that 7.1 provides. It's not critical (we are only talking about surround info, after all), but it is nice to have.


----------



## Sibilance

Tulpa!


What a great username! ... But forgive me if I don't clear a person sized hole for you in my perception of reality.










Anyway, just to add to the 7.1 vs 5.1 conversation: In my case I went with a 7.1 system because I do and will play games that have full 7.1 sound tracks (Resistance 2 for example.) Since I have these games now, and reasonably expect more games to be available with 7.1 sound, it seemed like a logical choice for me. For The Wife and I, games are what we mostly use our entertainment system for, with movies being second.


----------



## lakesidejim

WOW!!! Just had a chance to see LIVE an Onkyo TX-SR706 (Black) at a local retailer (HH Gregg). They didn't have it hooked up, so couldn't listen; but, listening in a gigantic hall-like store with mis-matched speakers is hardly a viable listening test, anyway.


But, the "Wow" comes from looking at the back panel! Man, what an array of input capabilities. Darn near every video-type input had an S-Video jack. And, surprise of surprises: it also has a Phono input! I didn't expect that! Not one set of specs I saw anywhere mentioned that. I know it is considered primarily an audio/VIDEO receiver, but it has radio capability as well; why not mention the "other" audio input as well? I would most likely replace a bunch of my separates with it, so the phono input is essentially a deal-maker for me. In case anyone is interested, here is a link to a comprehensive review from what seems to be a professional reviewer, with the "Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity" web site:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/recei...-receiver.html 


I also read some of the 1-star and 2-star reviews on Amazon.com, and a number of reviewers there (admittedly non-professionals) dinged the 706 because, when more than 2 speakers are connected, it delivers lower than the claimed 100+ watts to each output. Still others dinged it because of artifacts (blue spreckles) when viewing Blu-ray discs. Still others complained that "it Clips Black below Black & White above white" in video. Others complained that the impedance of the inputs required higher volume level settings than with other receivers, especially in the phono stage.


The reason I mention all of those dings is to solicit comments from this esteemed group of users.


As always, I appreciate all your comments and suggestion.


Lakeside


----------



## cascius

Hi guys, I'm totally new to Home Theatre Audio systems and would like some recommendations.

I have a LN52A650 Samsung LCD, a kick ass HTPC running XBMC, and can get a hold of a very good BK amplifier (no HDMI though, but i should be able to use an optical connector).


For the time being, I've been using a cheapo 2.1 PC setup for the audio... Yeah, I know it's crap...










What' I'm interested to do is progressively update my system with real speakers. I'm thinking to do this in 3-4 steps:

Step 1: 2x Floor standing speakers for R/L

Step 1': Center Channel Speaker

Step 2: Sub

Step 3: 2x/4x Surround Speakers (Not sure whether 7.1 is really necessary)


So I guess my question is as follow:

Right now I'm willing to spend somewhere in the range of $400-500 for step 1 + 1'. Do you think I can get something nice in that range? Can you recommend any specific models?

And i guess: I'm I better off spending all of it only on step 1 only, and add a center speaker down the line?


I highly appreciate any recommendations.


Thanks in advance,


- Cas


----------



## lakesidejim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lakesidejim* /forum/post/16960817
> 
> 
> WOW!!! Just had a chance to see LIVE an Onkyo TX-SR706 (Black) at a local retailer (HH Gregg). They didn't have it hooked up, so couldn't listen; but, listening in a gigantic hall-like store with mis-matched speakers is hardly a viable listening test, anyway.
> 
> 
> Lakeside



An even bigger WOW!!!


I chanced across a used Onkyo TX-SR805 on Ebay and won it. FANTASTIC! More power than the 70x series, S-video connections, HDMI pass through and codecs for ALL current Dolby, DTS, and THX modes. Very impressive. Even the phono stage works like a champ.


With this unit I have replaced some 6 or more separate components.


A couple of comments: one poster suggested that I connect surround speakers to the rear channels if only using 5.1 mode. Only problem: if I turn OFF the side surrounds, I lose the rear surround capability.


Another question: I'm running the output from my Dish receiver via composite video and audio cable into the Onkyo. But, it appears the video and audio are just a bit out of sync--not much, mind you, but somewhat noticeable. I am aware of the "A/V Sync" setting for audio DELAY, but I don't want to delay it anymore--need to speed it up a bit. Any suggestions?


----------



## afrogt

If you're using 5.1, you're supposed to connect the speakers to the side surrounds anyway. the rear surrounds are for 7.1 use.


The actually terminology on the 805 receiver is Surround L and Surround R. The Surround Back speakers are for 7.1.


----------



## lakesidejim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/17034344
> 
> 
> If you're using 5.1, you're supposed to connect the speakers to the side surrounds anyway. the rear surrounds are for 7.1 use.
> 
> 
> The actually terminology on the 805 receiver is Surround L and Surround R. The Surround Back speakers are for 7.1.



My bad! I went back and re-read Tulpa's post/answer to me, and I just misunderstood what he wrote.


One other question. I have a Mitsubishi HC4900, which is a 1080p projector, and which I connect to the HDMI OUT jack. On the "info" section of the projector's Menu, it will list the resolution of whatever signal it is currently being fed. When I play an HD DVD through my Toshiba HD-A3, it correctly shows 1080i, the maximum capability of the A3. However, it was my understanding that the Onkyo would up-convert signals. When I play a source capable of only 480 or 720, that's all that seems to reach my Mits projector, according to the INfo screen. Did I misunderstand what the Onkyo does?


----------



## pingu666

lakesidejim, I think 1080i and 720p are quite close, got a feeling 720p is "better" tho










Im looking to put together two new surround systems, one for my pc (I use it for everything xD, movies, games, music, tv etc) and one for our sitting room, which will probably be 95% tv, then music and films for the last 5%. parents aren't big on films







. Got a home built HTPC which does everything.


so for the receiver (for both systems) doesn't need a massive amount of inputs and outputs, just one or two. would like 7.1 capability. recommendations ? not sure what to spend on receivers, but around £100 (160dollars at a guess)


for the speakers was thinking about these wharfedale diamond 9.0 for £49.95


not sure about the sub's, richersounds only have £100+ subs at least on the site, Id rather spend about 70 or so. what do you guys recommend?


----------



## pingu666

update










looking around, seems like wharfdale diamond 9.0's are pretty good for use as satellites. richer sounds have them for £49 a pair at the moment. notsure if i should get a 9cc center, use a single 9.0 or a pair of 9.0's for the center... i think a 9cc is avalible for £70ish. richer sounds have a gale aria ar70 for £49 aswell.


so cost for the satalites is £150 to £170

no idea what sub or AV reciver to get, seems like theres hardly any subs below £100 and same for recivers


do i really need to spend 400quid (when you take into account cables and traveling and bits and bobs...


theres also a package like...

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9 HCP HOME CINEMA SPEAKER SYSTEM - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_id/2210 for details



or ive just found this

ONKYO HTX22HD 2.1 HIGH DEFINITION DECODER/AMPLIFIER/SPEAKER SYSTEM - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_id/4162 for details and the addon to 5.1 ONKYO SKS11 5.1 SPEAKER UPGRADE PACKAGE FOR HTX22HD - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_id/4174 for details


ill haveto see if i can do toslink from my xfi...


----------



## lakesidejim

Has anyone in the forum bought speakers from TSC? They offer incredibly low prices for what appear to be decent, if somewhat small, speakers. For instance, their center channel speaker has 2 5" woofers and a 3/4" tweeter, and it runs about $60 shipped to you. Even better, they offer a money-back guarantee you'll be satisfied; they even pick up the cost of return shipping.


----------



## Mangomax

Can anyone provide me with an opinion as to whether the SONY HTSS360 5.1 Channel HTS is worth the money? Unfortunately I'm on a tight budget and have no intention of wasting money! Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help me!


----------



## jps1012

Hey I am looking to spend $250-300. Could go up to $350 if I had to. What should I get? I have a panasonic TC-P50G10 tv and a panasonic bd-60 blu ray player. Thanks!


----------



## BigDallas721

Just gotta say love AVS, been reading up on here for a few days now. I was leaning towards getting a refurbed Denon DHT-589BA. I owned a cheap Philips hts3555 that died on me and want to get more bang for my buck.


Looks like I will be doing some more research on this thread alone, but everything in me tells me to buy that 589BA. Got PS3, Direct TV, 360 & Wii that I wanna be able to hook up this time around. Never going the Philips route again.


----------



## SoapySmith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jimsaudiovideo* /forum/post/17310902
> 
> 
> I have been reading this thread thinking about putting my own system together and just noticed an ad on this AVS forum site about SLS Q line gold htib system.
> 
> Seems like an online dealer www.av-express.com has these units back in stock. I have heard a lot of good things about this sytem on AVS threads . $419 with free freight is pretty good deal considering the best price I could find for the receiver in this system was $249. Some people in the past have mentioned that the speakers alone are worth $500. I'll check back if I decide to pull the trigger.



This is interesting, I just read a post made today by Jimsaudiovideo in the great found deals section, singing the praises of the SRS Q line gold and pushing purchases from av-express.com. There, another member questioned the quality of these systems and Jim replied claiming that he has had this system in his basement since he purchased it from Best Buy for $500---back when BB still carried them---and Jim said he loved the quality.


But Jim's post here, made a over a week before he claimed to have one in his basement since purchasing from Best Buy, suggests that he's never heard the system in person. (But he did give a shout-out to av-express.com). Hmmm.... Of Jim's 22 posts on AVS as of the time of this posting, all 22 of them attempted to send users to either erseaudio.com or av-express.com. Curiously, the Erse Audio postings suddenly stopped in February '09 after someone questioned Jim's motives in repeatedly steering users to Erse Audio here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15716047 


Since Jim started posting again in August, every single post he makes is an advertisement for av-express.com (a site that is anonymously registered, btw.)


As the last user who questioned Jim's motives suggested, full disclosure of vested interests is always appreciated.


As for my own interest, it's really none of my business other than the fact something here seems fiihy and dishonest, and that really irks me. I don't want to steer this thread away from HTIB alternatives, but this information seems like it might be relevant to people looking to this forum for honest and unbiased advice.


Back to HTIB alternatives. I see Frye's still has the R50's for a pretty good price. I'm looking for a good bang-for-the-buck speaker to recommend for a friend---are the R50's the best deal going right now for towers, or does someone have another suggestion for the same or less money?


----------



## ickysmits

^There's a lot of viral marketing on AVS Forums. Probably the worst aspect of this forum but it's there.


----------



## Tiga

I was using 3 of those center channel speakers across my front. It's their LCR3 package. Sounds really good. I've replaced them with some old Boston A40's which are even better. Once the A40's get re-purposed I'll put the TSC speakers back.

Tiga



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lakesidejim* /forum/post/17158659
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the forum bought speakers from TSC? They offer incredibly low prices for what appear to be decent, if somewhat small, speakers. For instance, their center channel speaker has 2 5" woofers and a 3/4" tweeter, and it runs about $60 shipped to you. Even better, they offer a money-back guarantee you'll be satisfied; they even pick up the cost of return shipping.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BigDallas721* /forum/post/17258017
> 
> 
> Just gotta say love AVS, been reading up on here for a few days now. I was leaning towards getting a refurbed Denon DHT-589BA. I owned a cheap Philips hts3555 that died on me and want to get more bang for my buck.
> 
> 
> Looks like I will be doing some more research on this thread alone, but everything in me tells me to buy that 589BA. Got PS3, Direct TV, 360 & Wii that I wanna be able to hook up this time around. Never going the Philips route again.



You've got 4 different video devices there. Two or three that use HDMI and at least one that doesnt. If you are planning to connect all the video directly to your HDTV then no big deal. But if you plan to run it thru the 589 receiver you only have 2 HDMI inputs and it does not convert the other inputs to HDMI. You'd have run multiple video cables from receiver to the TV.


You're going to want a different receiver. I would suggest a Denon 1610/590 as a minimum. That way you can run all the devices thru the receiver and it will send everything out thru one HDMI cable to the TV. The 1610 had 3 HDMI instead of 2 and it also process audio.


----------



## CFX

Hello,

I'm looking into buying a new Home Theatre System to match with my Elite 141FD. Relative to the TV, I want to buy something less expensive. I've capped myself at around $550 for the home theatre. I have a couple requirements and ideas that I would like to bounce off you guys. As always, I appreciate your comments and expertise.


I require a receiver with at least 4 HDMI inputs that is able to decode the DTS-HD and other Blu Ray formats. My home theatre is small at the moment but I am looking to move into another house in the near future. I was originally thinking of floor speakers but after researching for great lengths I still did not come to a conclusion as to what is the best for my money. I was looking at some Polk Monitor 50 and 60. If a book shelf speaker will sound better than I am open to that as well. For now, the system will be a 5.1 but will expand to 7.1 when I get into a new home. I am looking at both 5.1 and 7.1 as options right now. I'd like whatever receiver I buy to have 7.1. For speakers, I would also like to have a wood/cherry option.


I was originally looking into the Onkyo S6200 HTIB for my all in one solution. I think you can't go wrong with Onkyo. I also looked into the Onkyo S6100 which is the older model that has larger speakers (14" as opposed to 9" I believe). I believe the larger speakers would equate to better sound quality as the two fronts on the S6100 have two woofers and one tweeter as opposed to the S6200's one woofer and one tweeter design. The receiver included on the S6100 can also upconvert analog to HDMI which is nice but not a feature that is a make-or-break. I've also read some reports from users on here that their S6100 receivers have had problems with the HDMI cards so I'm already hesitant to purchase that particular model.


What I was really hoping for was someone on this forum to confirm that for the money, the S6200 is a good deal. Moreover, I was hoping someone could put together a list of components (receiver + speakers) that would give me a better bang for my buck. I already have a high quality subwoofer from Bose that I think will suffice so perhaps that would let me spend more money to find better speakers/receiver. I've seen on newegg that the Polk Audio RM6750 home theatre speaker system is highly rated, followed by the Energy Take 5 Pack. For individual speakers I've been looking at the Polk Monitor series.


As always, I appreciate your responses. Thanks again for your help!


----------



## thehawaiin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CFX* /forum/post/17402566
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was originally looking into the Onkyo S6200 HTIB for my all in one solution. I think you can't go wrong with Onkyo. I also looked into the Onkyo S6100 which is the older model that has larger speakers (14" as opposed to 9" I believe). I believe the larger speakers would equate to better sound quality as the two fronts on the S6100 have two woofers and one tweeter as opposed to the S6200's one woofer and one tweeter design. The receiver included on the S6100 can also upconvert analog to HDMI which is nice but not a feature that is a make-or-break. I've also read some reports from users on here that their S6100 receivers have had problems with the HDMI cards so I'm already hesitant to purchase that particular model.
> 
> 
> What I was really hoping for was someone on this forum to confirm that for the money, the S6200 is a good deal.



Im also deciding between these two but cant decide. I know the 6200 has Zone 2 audio but Im not really sure how useful that would be in reality. Also, I know the 6200 cannot upscale (I don't want it to as my PS3 and Samsung plasma make things beautiful already) but will it fire a component sources through HDMI? However here is the real make or break concern. I cannot figure out which is going to have better speakers. The 6200 has smaller speakers with larger drivers and "full range surrounds" compared to the 6100 that has larger speakers with smaller drivers and "two way surrounds." I will use this for music and movies. Any help or insights would be appreciated as I cannot seem to find a concrete answer anywhere.


Also, I have been all over AVS looking for an answer and I am a first time poster. I think this is a good place to put this question but if not sorry.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thehawaiin* /forum/post/17457071
> 
> 
> Im also deciding between these two but cant decide. I know the 6200 has Zone 2 audio but Im not really sure how useful that would be in reality.



It's useful if you want to set up separate speakers in another room and listen to different sources.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thehawaiin* /forum/post/17457071
> 
> 
> Also, I know the 6200 cannot upscale (I don't want it to as my PS3 and Samsung plasma make things beautiful already) but will it fire a component sources through HDMI?



Nope - if you have a component video source going into the receiver, you need a component cable going out to the TV for video. I don't think it's a big deal but it's important to some.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thehawaiin* /forum/post/17457071
> 
> 
> However here is the real make or break concern. I cannot figure out which is going to have better speakers. The 6200 has smaller speakers with larger drivers and "full range surrounds" compared to the 6100 that has larger speakers with smaller drivers and "two way surrounds." I will use this for music and movies. Any help or insights would be appreciated as I cannot seem to find a concrete answer anywhere.



Who knows? I doubt many people have compared them head-to-head for sound but maybe someone here actually has (sorry, I just don't know). However, the speakers on these things usually aren't the best but they might be good enough. If this is your first surround system you'll have a lot of fun with either watching movies. But don't expect either the 6100 or 6200 to do very well with 2 channel music, you'll need better speakers. The good thing is that either receiver should be good enough to add better speakers or sub later if you find it'll be necessary. I'd say look at the features on the receiver first when making your decision.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thehawaiin* /forum/post/17457071
> 
> 
> Also, I have been all over AVS looking for an answer and I am a first time poster. I think this is a good place to put this question but if not sorry.



You're good. Make a new post in the main section if you have any more specific questions. Nobody will mind. These stickied threads get overlooked a lot more.


----------



## r4wj4

Hi,


I haven't been here in a while but I'm looking for a second setup for a bedroom. Here is what I'm looking at:


Quintet III ($250) being replace by Quintet 4
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search 


or


Energy Take 5 Pack ($150) - really good reviews
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269004 


My current setup is R50/R150,CSR.


What do you guys think would be better setup in terms of best bang for the buck?


----------



## samsurd2

Are you saying you're planning to replace the R50/R150,CSR set-up with one of these lesser rigs?? I'm confused.


----------



## r4wj4

No, I'm sorry, I'm just looking for a second setup for the bedroom. That's why I asked I want something smaller in size and good performance...I can't demo any of these satellite speakers, so that's why I'm asking if anyone can suggest if its a better option than the R series?


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r4wj4* /forum/post/17535900
> 
> 
> No, I'm sorry, I'm just looking for a second setup for the bedroom. That's why I asked I want something smaller in size and good performance...I can't demo any of these satellite speakers, so *that's why I'm asking if anyone can suggest if its a better option than the R series*?



Based on the specs, neither of these should be better than the R series.


----------



## jreganphd

All opinions appreciated. Deciding between the nice Onkyo 9100 (all included) vs. a set up that would use the Energy 5.0 as 4 sats and a center. I would need to add a sub. OR since I have a high end front speaker pair (Thiel 3.5's), a good 7.1 receiver (Yamaha 2700) should I try to match them as the Thiels will handle audio very nicely although not sure how they will work with the Energy's.


Any ideas/ thoughts??


Thanks


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jreganphd* /forum/post/17547526
> 
> 
> All opinions appreciated. Deciding between the nice Onkyo 9100 (all included) vs. a set up that would use the Energy 5.0 as 4 sats and a center. I would need to add a sub. OR since I have a high end front speaker pair (Thiel 3.5's), a good 7.1 receiver (Yamaha 2700) should I try to match them as the Thiels will handle audio very nicely although not sure how they will work with the Energy's.
> 
> 
> Any ideas/ thoughts??
> 
> 
> Thanks



I don't quite understand...you have a nice receiver, why would you buy the Onkyo 9100 to get another receiver that's not as good?


If it’s home theater you’re after, and willing to sink $1k in the Onkyo 9100, why not get a better set of speakers and sub instead. Maybe something like an SVS 5.1 package or similar and keep the Thiel for 2 channel listening if you still appreciate them. I don’t think the Energy Takes would do very well as satellites to bigger fronts.


----------



## jreganphd

Actually, I am taking the 2700 away from a set up, so the 9100 would give me a receiver to replace it. I like your suggestion, thank you. So, using the Thiels with a 5.1 will in fact create a 7.1 system...I guess you believe the Thiels will provide a smooth front (after calibration). Thanks for your solid ideas, any other thoughts are also appreciated.


----------



## ickysmits

Bummer, that's a nice receiver.


I have no idea how you'd incorporate the Thiel speakers...what little I know about them is that they target 2 channel. What I do know is that Takes, with the little 3" drivers, wouldn't sound very good with the larger Thiel. How about buying a Thiel SCS from Audiogon to use as a center?..just a thought. Probably best to get opinions on incorporating those 3.5's in the Thiel owner's thread .


----------



## joeyl

I won a pair of the Polk Monitor 30 cherry finished for 45 dollars + 20 shipping from the Polk store







Anybody else uses those and could please comment?


thanks


----------



## drewhiggs

What would be a good receiver for around $350 that has dolby prologic llz? I've been looking at the Onkyo Tx-sr607, but people seem to be having handshaking issues with it. Would you still recommend this receiver or another one?


I'm looking to buy Take Classic 5.0 to pair with the receiver then later incorporating a new sub and height speakers.


Thanks for the input.


----------



## thehawaiin

Ok so I bought the Onkyo S6200. Overall pretty great. Hella loud sub, great receiver, and descent speakers. Problem... they fronts are not magnetically shielded. So I know my Sammy plasma isnt affected by that but what about my PS3? Is it possible to magnetically shield them myself? Im really not sure where to look for this one. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## mudkip

*Energy C-50 @ $85*

System Type Bass Reflex, Rear Vented

Frequency Response 65Hz-20kHz +/- 3 dB

Nominal Impedence 8 ohms; Minimum Impedance: 4 ohms

Recommended Amplifier Power up to 100 watts

Components Chambered 1" Aluminum Dome

4-1/2" Composite Fiberglas cone

Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 60 Hz

Sensitivity (anechoic) 85dB

Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 88dB

Crossover Point 2.9kHz

*The Speaker Company P6 @ $60*

Woofer(s) 6.5" Polypropylene

Midrange Driver(s)

Tweeter Type 3/4" Silk Dome

Magnetic Shielding Yes

Frequency Response 60 Hz – 20 kHz +

Crossover Frequency 2.5kHz

Impedance in Ohms 8

Power handling (watts) 10-100

Sensitivity 89 dB




i narrowed it down to these two are the best bang for buck currently. speaker company's sale on the P6's would it be a superior buy vs. the c-50? considering the larger woofer and silk dome tweeter?


----------



## joeyl

I would go P6 just for the better specs and silk dome, I have yet to hear a budget speaker with a nice sounding metal tweeter


----------



## mudkip

is there anything worth waiting for on black friday?


i know the polk's are gonna be on sale but there garbage


----------



## joeyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mudkip* /forum/post/17566814
> 
> 
> is there anything worth waiting for on black friday?
> 
> 
> i know the polk's are gonna be on sale but there garbage



Polk garbage?







maybe the stuff you used to be able to buy at Circuit City but still garbage??


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mudkip* /forum/post/17562182
> 
> *Energy C-50 @ $85*
> 
> System Type Bass Reflex, Rear Vented
> 
> Frequency Response 65Hz-20kHz +/- 3 dB
> 
> Nominal Impedence 8 ohms; Minimum Impedance: 4 ohms
> 
> Recommended Amplifier Power up to 100 watts
> 
> Components Chambered 1" Aluminum Dome
> 
> 4-1/2" Composite Fiberglas cone
> 
> Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 60 Hz
> 
> Sensitivity (anechoic) 85dB
> 
> Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 88dB
> 
> Crossover Point 2.9kHz
> 
> *The Speaker Company P6 @ $60*
> 
> Woofer(s) 6.5" Polypropylene
> 
> Midrange Driver(s)
> 
> Tweeter Type 3/4" Silk Dome
> 
> Magnetic Shielding Yes
> 
> Frequency Response 60 Hz - 20 kHz +
> 
> Crossover Frequency 2.5kHz
> 
> Impedance in Ohms 8
> 
> Power handling (watts) 10-100
> 
> Sensitivity 89 dB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i narrowed it down to these two are the best bang for buck currently. speaker company's sale on the P6's would it be a superior buy vs. the c-50? considering the larger woofer and silk dome tweeter?



[/RANT ON] This seems like your umpteenth post on this subject. People keep giving you advice and apparently you just haven't heard what you're predisposed to hear or something. Will you PLEASE just make a decision...and leave out the "I'm a poor college student stuff" - everyone has heard it. What the heck are you going to do when life actually confronts with some real nitty gritty choices??[/RANT OFF]


----------



## mudkip




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/17568122
> 
> 
> [/RANT ON] This seems like your umpteenth post on this subject. People keep giving you advice and apparently you just haven't heard what you're predisposed to hear or something. Will you PLEASE just make a decision...and leave out the "I'm a poor college student stuff" - everyone has heard it. What the heck are you going to do when life actually confronts with some real nitty gritty choices??[/RANT OFF]



im a poor college student


----------



## r4wj4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/17539426
> 
> 
> Based on the specs, neither of these should be better than the R series.



Thank you.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mudkip* /forum/post/17568641
> 
> 
> im a poor college student



see attached


----------



## lazerfan

I had been using a Yamaha HTiB for about 3 years. The receiver is a HTR-5920. The tv I had been using was a Pioneer PDP-5080 and it really annoyed me that the tv speakers sounded much better than the speakers that were in the HTiB.

I upgraded to a Pioneer Pro-101FD monitor recently and decided to upgrade the sound too.

I kept the receiver but gave all of the speakers and passive subwoofer away. First I picked up a powered 10" subwoofer.

Also, I had an old set of Acoustic Profiles PSL-52B speakers and decided to try them upfront. The difference was amazing to me. So, I bought a PSL center channel from ebay and then picked up some little PSL-.05 satellites for the rear.

Now I'm going to get some PSL-8.6 32" floorstanding speakers, and put the 52B bookshelfs in the rear.

The cost is next to nothing as these vintage speakers from 1995-1999 sell for next to nothing! I paid $46 for the center channel, $20 for a set of 4 satellites and I'll be paying $75 for the floorstanders.

The improvement in sound that I have now, versus what I'd been listening to for the last 3 years is nothing short of amazing to me.

I really encourage anyone who is less than happy with his HTiB to experiment with quality vintage speakers!

The entire system will cost me less than an expensive center channel from a current name brand company!


----------



## joeyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lazerfan* /forum/post/17583816
> 
> 
> Also, I had an old set of Acoustic Profiles PSL-52B speakers and decided to try them upfront. The difference was amazing to me. So, I bought a PSL center channel from ebay and then picked up some little PSL-.05 satellites for the rear.
> 
> Now I'm going to get some PSL-8.6 32" floorstanding speakers, and put the 52B bookshelfs in the rear.
> 
> 
> The entire system will cost me less than an expensive center channel from a current name brand company!



Acoustic Profiles, that's a Canadian company right? I have not seen their speakers around for a while now


----------



## lazerfan

Yes, Acoustic Profiles was a line of speakers built by Audiosphere, out of Markham Ontario. I believe the line ranged from about 1995-1999/2000. My PSL-52B bookshelfs are from 1995 as well as my PSL-8.6 tower speakers. My PSL-C3 center channel is from 1999.

The nice thing about the setup now is I can use the tower speakers to listen to music in stereo and the whole setup for 5.1 surround sound for movies.

Before when I had the little Yamaha box system, I never used it to listen to music.


----------



## Dtao819

I've been looking at the "Sony Bravia DAV - HDx589w 5.1-Channel Theater System" However, it comes with a DVD system in which I do not need. I am wondering if any here knows if there is a 5.1 sound system to complete a home theater that is well worth it and comes with ONLY the speakers and sub, and not the DVD player. I am hoping the speakers will be cheaper without the DVD system. I do not need it nor do I need a blu ray player because my PS3 will handle all of that. Please offer suggestions! THANKS!


----------



## joeyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dtao819* /forum/post/17694603
> 
> 
> I've been looking at the "Sony Bravia DAV - HDx589w 5.1-Channel Theater System" However, it comes with a DVD system in which I do not need. I am wondering if any here knows if there is a 5.1 sound system to complete a home theater that is well worth it and comes with ONLY the speakers and sub, and not the DVD player. I am hoping the speakers will be cheaper without the DVD system. I do not need it nor do I need a blu ray player because my PS3 will handle all of that. Please offer suggestions! THANKS!



well the purpose of this thread is not to use HTIB







but if you don't have a big room, you can find a Energy Take 5.1 Classic set for around 400 bucks, I think.


----------



## Elvis Is Alive

For those looking for HtiB alternatives, I highly suggest that the LCR speakers all reach or go below 80hz in frequency response. Otherwise you are losing alot of midrange. Many of these HtiB speakers only reach 120-110 hz on the low end.


On a seperate note, I am curious if anyone has purchased speakers from TSC and what their opinions are of the product. I have an Elemental Designs 5.1 system that I purchased in 2007 and love it.


----------



## Starkiller4299

Hi all--


My old man has asked me to research a home theater sound system for him. The budget is pretty reasonable (at $1000 for everything), but it needs to fit within WAF criteria and the room that the TV's in is rather large. I would estimate the room at about 20,000 cubic feet.


My recommendation to him was the Energy Take 5's on sale at newegg for 150, plus a Denon 590 @ ~ 350. That leaves 500 for a sub to try and fill the room with bass. Maybe 2 Hsu STF-1's? Part of the idea is that he may decide to upgrade in a year or two, and then he could just pick up a nice set of mains, and move the Takes to the rear for a 7.1 setup.


Thoughts, comments, recommendations? Thanks in advance!


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Starkiller4299* /forum/post/17735196
> 
> 
> I would estimate the room at about 20,000 cubic feet.



Can you put that into dimensions (L x W x H) so we can make sure what we're dealing with?


With an 8 foot ceiling that's a 50' x 50' room....kinda big for the little Takes.


EDIT: scratch that…it’s a huge room no doubt. I wouldn’t go with the Takes and those subwoofers however - bass is all good but the Takes are tiny and can't resolve anything too deep. They’re fine if you live in a rabbit hutch but at some point you have to get speakers that can go deeper and are enjoyable. Your actual listening area probably isn't that big. I don’t think little Takes would sound good as surround speakers to big floorstanding speakers in front either.


I’d go with the SVS package instead and get a decent receiver -> http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm 

The speakers are sealed so they’re easy to place and they’d be respectable for surround duty in the future. They aren’t the most attractive though but you're asking a lot for $1k in a huge room, WAF goes out the door…


----------



## MarshallStack

Oh lord. Here comes another moron.

We are building a man cave in our new house.

The space is @ 25' x 25' divided in half by lally columns.

One side is going to have a pool table - I managed to buy that in 35 seconds. (I went with green over burgundy felt.)

On the other side - what? A 50" something or other, maybe LCD, maybe plasma, blu ray, just ordered Direct TV, probably a Wii (because I want it) and a SOUND SYSTEM.

I was going to get an HTIB - but this forum has inspired me to waste untold hours looking at separate components.

There is a guy selling Jamo speakers on eBay fairly cheap - never heard of them but read about them here. They have the obscurity appeal that I favored 30 years ago when I had a few semi-serious audio systems.

Is is true that 7.2 is a waste for the time being?

Can I reuse: 4 Boston Acoustic Mirco 110X for anything? They are tiny. Or the old Bose cubes I still have (the kind that swivel in the middle) or the BA Avidea 610-PV700 sub? I had a HTIB in the old place.

No, right?

I have maybe 2,000 to spend on the TV and the sound.


Please - someone just tell me what to buy so I can get back to doing work.


I like loud things (played in a number of bad garage bands) and dry crisp bass. No boom-boom. I believe that larger speakers sound BETTER (subjective) than tiny ones and do I really need a $500 "power conditioner" thing that they sell at BB? Wouldn't a surge protector handle 99% of that?


Thank you for your consideration. I need a drink.


----------



## Starkiller4299

The room's kinda hard to explain, so here's a simple drawing:

 


These are rough guesses and not to scale, but it'll give an idea. But it indicates that I was perhaps overly conservative earlier with the 24k estimate--at 8 ft ceilings, this is 10k cubic ft. Still, a pretty terrible room for home theater, but you work with what you have.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Starkiller4299* /forum/post/17740499
> 
> 
> The room's kinda hard to explain, so here's a simple drawing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are rough guesses and not to scale, but it'll give an idea. But it indicates that I was perhaps overly conservative earlier with the 24k estimate--at 8 ft ceilings, this is 10k cubic ft. Still, a pretty terrible room for home theater, but you work with what you have.



It's a big room but at least the main area isn't 50 x 50. I still wouldn't go for the Takes...what did you think of the SVS speakers? Their subwoofers are highly rated. Another highly rated subwoofer company is eD and they have speaker/sub packages that would fall within your budget...maybe a tad more.
http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2 


I think you should be searching/asking in the speaker and subwoofer section for more ideas.


----------



## Starkiller4299

Yeah, eD has some good stuff--their subs are one of the three options I game my old man. Of course, if I had it my way, I would order a few eD woofers for the guy and make an IB, but he doesn't want anything DIY about this project







. Too bad, I plan on making sono's with the 18's, and we could split the shipping







.


Looking at the SVS, I like the 6" woofers and the associated lower response that they provide, but the cabinets look like plastic and the sensitivity is 4dB lower (with similar power handling capabilities). Now it's possible that the manufacturers measure sensitivity differently, I'll admit, but seems like the Takes would put out more sound. Am I mistaken? Geez, they really need more places in the area that you can audition stuff at







.


I'll post in the speaker sections too, then. Thanks!


----------



## showgren

Preface: This site is great. I am always amazed at the time, energy and dedication hobbyist share with strangers. Your knowledge is invaluable. Thanks! Like many previous posts, I am looking for my first system and in some ways my last. After this initial purchase I don’t see myself having the resources to invest further. I would like to end up with a complete 5.1 system.


Background: I began by looking at HTIB systems. I knew from the get go I would be getting a subpar system and was okay with it. I was looking at the Onkyos S6200 and S7200 initially until I received a bonus at work that bumped me up to the S9100 (available for $850 amazon or newegg). I almost pulled the trigger but decided to delve into the audiophiles lair, my biggest and best mistake. I am truly overwhelmed…help!


Budget: $850 is my cap, sorry.


Dimensions: The room where this will be used is 17ft wide by 20ft long and a vaulted ceiling with the highest point at 10 ft 3 inches (not much of vault…I know). The TV is placed on the longest wall (50inch Panny plasma). Let me know if you need more detail than this.


Requirements: I use the term loosely as I don’t have the cash to back it up.

1. Receiver

a. 7.1 or 7.2 receiver

b. Zone two capability (I have stereo speakers on the deck)

c. At least 4 HDMI repeater (audio and video, right?) inputs.

d. Latest codec support (TrueHD, DTS-HD)


2. Speakers

a. 5.1 system

b. Book shelf style fronts and surrounds, wall mountable (I am willing to mod this myself)

c. A reasonably sized Sub.


Conclusion: *Should I just bite the bullet and go for the S9100?* I recently read a review of the SBS-01 5.1 speaker system and fell in love with her, but I don’t want to blow my whole budget ($800 special) on speakers and be stuck with the donated all in one Samsung five disk changer HTIB. I considered buying the SBS-01 system without the sub (around $399 I believe) and saving up for something later but I am not convinced I will have the money for this in the future (I have the Sammy sub too). I do have some speakers I could use as surrounds (old school Kenwood stereos or again the sammys) if I really felt like I was benefiting from the increase in quality on the fronts/center.


Please feel free to ask questions. Like everyone, I wish I had some real cash for this but…


----------



## jesusbike

I have been reading all that I can on this forum and THANKS for all the info. This sight is a life saver. I had thought about a HTIB route until this site. Now for the help I need. My room is L shaped with the side being about 50 ft lond and the bottom part about 30 ft. This is a combo kitchen / den / living room. The TV is at the bottom of the L at the end. I have been looking at several systems and need some input. The systems so far that have caught my eye are the HSU HB-1, the SVS SBS-01, PSB Alpha B1, AVS 123 and the JBL ES-20. Please let me know which way to go on this. I forgot to mention that the ceiling is 10 ft. If I am looking at this from the wrong way let me know. Thanks for the help.


----------



## JasonB98

I still may go the route of the HTIB, but would like to explore some options first.


I currently own 2 JL audio 10" w4's that have been in my closet for almost 10 years. They are in perfect condition, but I am never going to install these in my truck. Can I build a box and use these in a 5.1 setup? I currently have them listed on Craigslist, but could pull them if they would be useful.


I'm also looking at the following on CL. Are any of these worth considering?


-Option 1 $150: Infinity TSS 450 5.1 channel surround speaker system (no receiver)


- Option 2 $69: Front/main Yamaha NS-a 635a (2)

Center Kenwood CRS 157

Rear Yamaha (not sure what these are, but I think they are the same as the front only smaller)


What about the following receivers?


-$150 Pioneer VSX D912 7.1

- $80 Kenwood VR 906

- $125 Onkyo HT R530 7.1

- $ 200 Harman Kardon AVR 130

- $100 TEAC AG D9100

- $75 Onkyo TX SV373 5.1

- $100 Pioneer VSX 305


Thanks for the input. It is very much appreciated.


Jason


----------



## ickysmits

Some of those receivers look overpriced. If you don't care about HDMI then try this Onkyo 800 -> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/d...530604405.html 


Some reviews:
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...o_tx-sr800.htm 
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2003.html 


These JBL speakers look like they might be worth checking into their value...I'm not familiar with them but they could be good and they look nice for a low price -> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...532679404.html 


Maybe he'll take $200 even....and these would make decent surrounds -> http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-TOUR-2-Way-B...item2a03777fba 


Direct from the manufacturer but they go for ~$50 at auction...the Harman Audio store has some of those too.


Check with the guys at subwoofer section but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to make an enclosure for those JL woofers...just get an amp plate from parts express . Make two subwoofers and double your fun!


----------



## JasonB98

Icky,


If I have approximately $500 to spend would this be a better alternative (link to follow in next post...I didn't have enough posts)?


I will probably be upgrading my current TV and DVD player to HD at the end of this year, and it would be nice not to have to get a new receiver to match. Is the box deal above the way to go, or can I get a similar receiver (HD) and better speakers buying separately?


The system we currently use for watching movies is a joke, so I don't have any other speakers unless I can do as you suggested and possibly convert the JL's into subs. I also have some old MB quartz 6's from the car. I wonder if they can be converted?


Thanks for the help!


----------



## JasonB98

Here's the link http://www.accessories4less.com/make...e-Black/1.html


----------



## ickysmits

They charge shipping so it might be a bit more but yeah...the Onkyo 6100/6200 & 7100/7200 are good value. Have a look at this one -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-143-_-Product 


Buying stuff off CL is a good way to get some value as the Onkyo 800, for example, is a good beefy amp. On the other hand you'd have used equipment and it's nice to have all the bells & whistles on the new receivers. Consider one of those Onkyo HTiB's...you can always upgrade the front three down the road with something like the JBL speakers above, just for example, or something better.


I've never built one but it's supposedly pretty easy and a fun project to make a sub...ask the experts though. Speakers are different and I don't think I'd convert car speakers for home use. I've seen it done on this forum but it looked pretty ghetto and those car speakers are built differently than home speakers.


----------



## JasonB98

Icky,


Are the speakers in option 2 of my first post worth considering with a better receiver? Would these get me through the next year or two?


What do you think?


The driving factor is that I want to set this up ASAP because I have time this weekend, but I still want to make a solid choice.


Sorry about pestering you, but I don't have anyone I know who has a clue about audio.


----------



## JasonB98

What about this one http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...7BBTkwCjCECjCE ?


----------



## ickysmits

You mean this? -> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...534277874.html 


Yeah, it'll work. They will create sound but I couldn't possible say how good they all are together...I suppose the risk factor is pretty low since they're very cheap. People always say the center should match the front speakers or it will sound off but sometimes it's not that big a deal.


I don't really know what to tell you...buy a good receiver, build a sub, and get those $69 speakers...you'd always have a good receiver and $69 isn't a huge loss if you don't like them.


----------



## JasonB98

How can I tell what the receiver is with the HTIB? Do I have to give them a call? Or am I missing something when I'm looking at the specs?


Thanks!


----------



## JasonB98

Any suggestions of where to purchase an HD receiver if I go the route of creating my own?


If I were to get something like the Onkyo HT-S5200 is the receiver HD? Would it be reasonable to think I could keep it without having to upgrade for another 5 years? And possibly start working on upgrading the speakers in a couple of years?


I really appreciate your help!


----------



## ickysmits

The 5200 probably isn't too bad but it doesn't do the HDMI audio thing. You might be happier wth a 6100/6200 and up. The receiver in the 6100 is slightly different than the Onkyo 606 and the receiver in the 6200 is slightly different than the 607. Sorry, I don't know exactly the difference...I'm sure if you google someone has compared them.


----------



## Tulpa

What is HD to you? Just the video, or the lossless audio, too? What video players will be hooked up to it?


Upgrading is an individual choice. A properly maintained receiver can last decades, but the newer features come along pretty much all the time. Speakers, on the other hand, can probably outlast you if you take care of them and you like the sound. Better speakers can be had down the road, but you can get some good ones now.


----------



## JasonB98

HD has always been video for me. I had no idea there was HD for audio until I started researching this. I'd like to think I'd be able to appreciate the difference, but who knows. I'll be using this for movies 90% of the time. I'm rarely home to enjoy music, and find I listen to the news in the truck. The HDMI would be nice as I play movies through the laptop, and the current DVD player has HDMI.


Other than that I guess I am looking for suggestions from people who know much more than I ever will about audio(that would be you guys).


Thanks!


----------



## JasonB98

What about something like the Athenas? http://www.amazon.com/Athena-15373-4.../dp/B0007USO3S 


I read good things about these...would this be a worthwhile endeavor?


The Athena LS 300B & LS 50B...would I use the WS 15's for the front?


Then I would only be lacking the sub?


Could I get a respectable HDMI receiver for 2-$300?


What do you guys think?


----------



## sliderhouserules

I thought there was a lot of info to sift through in deciding on a tv, and then a BD player... ugh. The audio side of things is the largest (and hardest).


Have my eye on the Onkyo 7200 HTiB. Don't like the price, though, and the vibe that the HTiB speakers aren't very good has sunk in for me. So...


How well does the Onkyo RC160 (really like this unit) pair up with the Energy Take 5's? I like this route because I don't need 7.1 right now and I can buy new fronts later to move to 7.1.


What do I need to do to find out if I can transition the sub from my old Sony HTiB to this new setup? Am I just asking for trouble and would be better off with even the lowest end sub (worth buying)? I haven't been to the sub forum yet, but I saw mentioned in this thread that there is some recommendations at ~$100 and a few between $100 and $200. I could probably squeeze the sub into the budget.


EDIT: oops, it's really late and I forgot to finish my thoughts. The alternative I'm looking at is something like one of the Polk 5.1 packages. So if anyone can throw options out there in the $250 to $350 range for a 5.1 setup I'd appreciate it.


TIA.


----------



## cornhulio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sliderhouserules* /forum/post/17891895
> 
> 
> I thought there was a lot of info to sift through in deciding on a tv, and then a BD player... ugh. The audio side of things is the largest (and hardest).
> 
> 
> Have my eye on the Onkyo 7200 HTiB. Don't like the price, though, and the vibe that the HTiB speakers aren't very good has sunk in for me. So...
> 
> 
> How well does the Onkyo RC160 (really like this unit) pair up with the Energy Take 5's? I like this route because I don't need 7.1 right now and I can buy new fronts later to move to 7.1.
> 
> 
> What do I need to do to find out if I can transition the sub from my old Sony HTiB to this new setup? Am I just asking for trouble and would be better off with even the lowest end sub (worth buying)? I haven't been to the sub forum yet, but I saw mentioned in this thread that there is some recommendations at ~$100 and a few between $100 and $200. I could probably squeeze the sub into the budget.
> 
> 
> EDIT: oops, it's really late and I forgot to finish my thoughts. The alternative I'm looking at is something like one of the Polk 5.1 packages. So if anyone can throw options out there in the $250 to $350 range for a 5.1 setup I'd appreciate it.
> 
> 
> TIA.



For the price ($150) I think the Takes are the way to go. Use any money left over for a decent sub like HSU, Bic, PA, etc


Take review: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...classic-review 


AVS feedback: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186671


----------



## Dhalsim420

I have been skimming through the thread all day, but either due to a lack of effort or background knowledge I still have some pretty basic questions.


First I'll set up my situation. I'm currently living in a fraternity house. For now I'll be living in what is to me a very large room, probably 30x24, but next semester I could be in a significantly smaller one. In either case there are lofts, so I'm imagining that the room is set up horrifically for acoustics. I'm looking for a 5.1 system, with budget of $600 or so. The system will get a lot of use for movies, music and gaming from a xbox360, as well as PC. The PC I will be playing music/movies with is old and has only a headphone jack for audio and VGA output.


So for the questions I have:


I've heard that some sort of software on the reciever (like Audessey) to balance the sound quality for variable rooms is key for me. I've also seen that a lot of people highly regard the Onkyo TX-SR 504, does the 504 have any sort of function to do this?

Also, I noticed that the 504 doesn't have HDMI, which I'm assuming means switching audio and video channels seperately. I'm lazy so thats a requirement for me, albiet a lenient one, do universal remotes exist that could do this automatically? (I'd really like a one device control system)

Finally, does a lack of optical/HMDI audio make any difference in sound quality? If it does I would be willing to buy a new sound card for my PC, or should I regardless? (Assuming no because I think I've read something to that effect and people wouldn't praise it so much if it were)

Would any of those concerns be real issues for me? If so is there another inexpensive reciever that would fit my needs?


My next issue is with a sub, given the size of the room is there a cheap sub that would be adiquate? I really dont need anything amazing, but I'd like to have decent sound quality for at least the 3 couches around the tv, ideally my bed too.


Where are some good places to look for speakers/recievers? I found that a lot of the links from early in the thread don't lead to anything anymore, I've looked around ebay and amazon and either can't find the items or they are significantly higher priced.


I was looking at getting the Polk R50's, R150's and CS1, is this still a good system? I had also looked at the Klipsch 5.0 Packages, can anyone recommend any other speakers/packages?


I realize that the budget thing may be an issue, and if thats true I would definitely be willing to go with a 2.1 for a year, maybe bum some extra rear speakers from people or get some real cheap from craigslist. I want to move towards a system I can be happy with for at least a few years, but I don't mind taking a year or so to get there as long as the interum is better than my TV speakers.


Would a HTIB be a decent way to go for me? They seem to fit all my requirements but maybe sound quality and upgradability, but if it would only be a little worse quality with a lot more convenience/less money I would be fine with that. Upgrading isn't so much an issue now either, I figure it would be ok for the 3-4 more years until I can afford some more legitimate devices to start really getting into it anyway.


I'll appreciate the help, thank you for everyone before me for their related questions and answers, and thank you to anyone who can help me out with any of my questions.


----------



## ickysmits

@ Dhalsim420


You have an difficult situation because you need to fill a huge room but might not stay there very long. You budget is small so you don't have a lot of options...


I think a good option might be the Polk Monitor series:

One pair -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-010-_-Product 

Center -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882290022 

One pair surrounds -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-094-_-Product 


These are the same as the Polk TSi series (TSi series is just a newer version with cosmetic changes) that they sell at Best Buy. It might be a good idea to have a listen....and maybe you can carry them over to the Magnolia area and see how they compare and if you'd be satisfied with them (but buy them from Newegg).


For the sub look at Parts Express - but cruise around the sub area, I'm not sure which one is recommended as having the most value...bang for the buck.


For the receiver...I'm not sure where you're reading about the Onkyo 504 as it's an older model. Is this something you already have? If so it would work fine.


----------



## Dhalsim420

Thanks a lot for the recommendations icky, and unfortunately no I don't already own a receiver, I had just seen the 504 mentioned quite a bit earlier in the thread. I've been looking on craigslist for a receiver and found a couple Onkyo's:

$250 TX-SR604

$400 HTR340 that comes with 3 Polk speakers and the rears from the htib and a sony 150w sub


I also found a set of two Cerwin-Vega E-710s and an E-75C for $150, I've read that these are loud, party type speakers, but are good for cinema as well. Would these be reasonable speakers to match with any of the above? I do plan on listening to a lot of music at regular db though, so is there any way to balance out the mids to make it sound better?


I've found that the 604 has Audessey and HDMI, both of which I was looking for (though it lacks upconversion which i had also really wanted), but the price/quality ratio of the receivers and speakers has me in a bind. Is there a large enough difference to make the 340 set not worth it, if so do you think the speakers alone would be well priced enough to pick them up but get the 604 receiver? My final option would be getting the 604 and getting the speakers icky recommended, starting with 2.1 (possibly the Cerwin-Vegas). I'm sure it depends on the specific models, but I have yet to find those details. Any sort of basic input would be much appreciated.


I apologize for being so ignorant and helpless, but this area of technology isn't exactly my forte.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## ickysmits

Stay well away from the HT-R340 - as far as I can tell it's from a bottom end HTiB and doesn't have enough power or features for you.


I think you're on the right track with the Onkyo 604/Cerwin Vega E-710 & E-75C for $150 - your room is huge and monster speakers might be appropriate. Who cares if they're not "detailed" or "accurate" or whatever adjective...you can blast away with them! Maybe you can get everyone in the frat to chip in $20 for the CVs...then just leave the them to the frat house and get another set when you move to a smaller room.


You can add whatever bookshelf speakers as surrounds, they don't need to be fancy.


----------



## Dhalsim420

Sounds like a plan, and a good idea about having people chip in. At the very least I'm sure I can sell them to someone when I'm moving out (if I so decide). However I am curious as to the next step, with those two purchases I would just have two fronts and a center, would I need a sub, or could I get two rears first? I figure it's one or the other because I really don't have much money left and I feel like a good sub is pretty expensive.


----------



## BearcatNation

I was originally going to go the route of a HTIB, but I decided to explore the options of piecing together my own system. Here is what my limitations are and what I am looking for:


- $1000 budget

- 5.1 or 7.1 setup - it would be nice to have the 7.1 as I am not limited by where the couch is but if I cant fit it in the budget, 5.1 is perfectly acceptable and I would put sound quality at a priority over getting the 7.1 as I could always upgrade

- Need at least 4 hdmi inputs on the receiver and it should decode all the latest audio formats (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc.)

- I plan to use the system for both SD and HDTV, Blu-Ray (Panasonic BDP-60), and Xbox 360 gaming. Also will use for Satellite Radio.

- EDIT: As I am only a college student, I do not have a defined room that this will be placed and stay in. For the next year, it will be in roughly a 19' x 14' room. Hard to plan after that. You are probably wondering how a college student could afford this, luckily I am a co-op student and found a great high paying job early on. but thats off topic. anyway...


Hopefully thats enough information, If I forgot something, just ask.


I am also really interested in starting off the system with a Denon AVR-790 A/V Receiver. It is reasonably priced at $400, has the capability of 7.1 if I decide to upgrade if I only go 5.1 now. It can output 90w/channel and has 4 hdmi and 2 component inputs.


The one thing about the receiver is it also includes Anchor Bay VRS advanced analog and digital video upconversion and deinterlacing with 1080p 24Hz/60Hz pass-through. I am a little unsure if this is unnecessary or will cause any upconversion problems with my tv. I have a 120hz Samsung 46" LN46B610 LCD TV.


Any information or suggestions on speakers/subs you can suggest would help.


----------



## BearcatNation

Forgot to provide the link to the receiver I am interested in: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4891.asp


----------



## macstu

I've been trying to help my parents out with their attempt to move into the current century of technology but since I have no prior experience with home theatre and limited time due to university it's been harder than I anticipated. Then of course there's the whole living in Canada handicap that has proven to be particularly irritating for both price and availability reasons (more so than usual anyways). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


The existing setup is a 12'x18' room with an 8' ceiling with the TV slightly off-center and viewed across the width (12') of the room. The current TV is an old 24" Sony that weighs far more than it has any right to and there is no discrete sound system. A Wii is used for occasional gaming and a PS3 for dvd/blu-ray purposes.


They'll soon have a Samsung UN46B7000. With the TV being so thin its speakers are expected to be abysmal at best. This is where the desire for a simple $500-600 sound solution comes in. My parents are far from being audiophiles.


Just to make things a little more complicated the TV is limited to optical out and they would like to retain the media streaming courtesy of DLNA.


At the moment I'm considering some combination of the following Polk speakers and Onkyo receivers as both brands seem to be reasonably well thought of and I managed to find them for sale here.


Onkyo TX-SR307 $300

Onkyo TX-SR507 $428

Polk R150 $100

Polk TSi100 $200


I've gathered that the Onkyo 307 works via HDMI pass-thru so that would mean extra cables and no lossless audio but that doesn't seem like too big of a deal. I'm at a complete loss as to whether the TSi100s are $100 better than the R150s.


With my current idea being to start with a simple 2.0 system with some room to grow just in case is there a standout receiver/speaker pair that I listed? Maybe a completely different combination would be better?


Thanks for your time.


----------



## mhdiab

ANybody have any thoughts about either of these setups for speakers?

https://www.electronics-expo.com/ind...m&id=POLRM6750 

http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...o/RM705/1.html 

https://www.electronics-expo.com/ind...STMCS100MDNTUU


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhdiab* /forum/post/18068290
> 
> 
> ANybody have any thoughts about either of these setups for speakers?
> 
> https://www.electronics-expo.com/ind...m&id=POLRM6750
> 
> http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...o/RM705/1.html
> 
> https://www.electronics-expo.com/ind...STMCS100MDNTUU



They are all small satellite speakers with 3" drivers so they will perform comparably. Note the Boston is a demo model.


What's your budget and are you only looking at satellite speakers?


----------



## nbaglior

Hello everyone, im not the biggest audiophile so you are going to have to bear with me and my price range. After I purchase my tv I will have just under 1k for a system, which I assume can get me a reasonable quality htib (preferably Onkyo). However I have priced some components together and came up with a system that is withing my budget, but am unsure if it would be any better than the Onkyo HT-S9100THX htib.


I have come up with the following:

Onkyo tx-sr607 400$

Klipsh Quintet III 350$

polk DSW PRO 8" 200$


I am mainly going to be watching blu ray, with a little gaming here and there, but almost exclusively blu ray.


I think its important to add, my current setup is a 3 year old rca 5.1 system from walmart


----------



## JasonB98

Thanks to the guys on here (thanks Afro GT) I was able to put together a 5.1 setup that I am very happy with. I'm positive it is much better than any Htib I could have gotten for the same amount of money.


I picked up the Polk Monitors from New Egg

- (2) Monitor 60's

- (2) Monitor 40's

- (1) CS2

Under $600.


BIC sub $150


Used Denon 3802 $200


With the wire, sound meter, and other small incidentals it may cost you another $100-$200.


Finding all of the stuff was pretty fun as well!


----------



## cornhulio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nbaglior* /forum/post/18128779
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, im not the biggest audiophile so you are going to have to bear with me and my price range. After I purchase my tv I will have just under 1k for a system, which I assume can get me a reasonable quality htib (preferably Onkyo). However I have priced some components together and came up with a system that is withing my budget, but am unsure if it would be any better than the Onkyo HT-S9100THX htib.
> 
> 
> I have come up with the following:
> 
> Onkyo tx-sr607 400$
> 
> Klipsh Quintet III 350$
> 
> polk DSW PRO 8" 200$
> 
> 
> I am mainly going to be watching blu ray, with a little gaming here and there, but almost exclusively blu ray.
> 
> 
> I think its important to add, my current setup is a 3 year old rca 5.1 system from walmart



For subs you'll want to look at Bic, HSU, eD, Epik, etc

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post17715439


----------



## Rugburn76

Ok guys, Im a newb to HT. I currently have a $300 Sony HTIB, bought at Walmart, that I've had for about 5 yrs. But now I want to step up to a better system.


I was gonna go with Onkyo 9100 HTIB but have read that I can do so much better buying seperates. So I started researching this site, but now I am more confused than ever.


First let me give you the basics of my needs. My living room is 15x16 with 8' ceilings. I currently have a 42"LCD Sharp Aquas, but thinking of going with a new 50-55" plasma. Also, researching a new BD player to go along with my system. This new system will be used 70% Bluray/DVD/HDTV, 20% music, 10% SD television. Oh and almost forgot, will be streaming Netflix also.


My budget is approx. $1500-$2000 for HT only. Was thinking maybe $500 for receiver, $500 for speakers, and $500 for sub? I assigned $500 for each so it will give me room to expand the the budget for 1 0r more of the components so I dont go over my $2000 limit. Maybe start off with 3 matching fronts and a sub for now, and then maybe upgrade to 5.1 or 7.1 later down the road.


Like I said earlier, I have researched this site and now come away more confused than I was before I started this mission. I'm about ready to pull my hair out! LOL....


I dont have any audio stores near me that I know of except Best Buy approx 60 miles away. I know I need to listen to speakers because it comes down to personal preferance, but Im not sure BB has anything that I need???? So maybe just take a chance on Internet Direct sites. I have read alot of good about Paradigm, but cant really find anywhere on the net to buy.


Anyways, if anyone cant point me in the right direction on any components that would suit my needs, I would really appreciate it. Thank you.


----------



## Rugburn76

I should mention that I really love bass, but I also like a clean sound. I want to fel like Im in the movie if that makes any sense.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Curious if anyone has setting recommendations for my setup..


Polk R50/150/CSR/Velodyne VX-10 and HK AVR-146. In the OSD i can change the frequencies the speakers and sub handle, it's a relatively small room, i can change settings on the sub too.


Watching the Iron Maiden concert on D* tonight got me wondering if i could tweak it to sound a bit better







You guys think one of those dedicated Amps would do anything, or should i just wait until i have a better setup later on?


P.S. The power cord on the sub isn't very long, i've wondered how some people get the subs to certain places in their HT setups around here.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kingcarcas* /forum/post/18176539
> 
> 
> Curious if anyone has setting recommendations for my setup..
> 
> 
> Polk R50/150/CSR/Velodyne VX-10 and HK AVR-146. In the OSD i can change the frequencies the speakers and sub handle, it's a relatively small room, i can change settings on the sub too.



I have a Sony STR-DG1000 driving 4 x Polk R150, 1 x CSR and a BIC H-100 sub. I've got the crossover on the DG1000 set at 100 Hz, the crossover on the BIC set at the maximum value and volume on the BIC set between 4 and 5 (full scale is 10). I experimented with 80, 100 and 120 Hz for a crossover but decided that 100 Hz was the sweet spot for my room and rig.


----------



## mittyman

Just curious about this deal for $749 at newegg:


Yammy 765 receiver

Klipsch sw-350 sub

Energy Takes 5.0


Is this a good matchup? Price looks real good.


----------



## mhdiab

Helping a friend out on a budget. He has a pretty large den. Speakers will mostly be used for TV and movies


Would like floorstanders up front and fine with smaller rears. Looking at spending $500 excluding subwoofer (not counting receiver) and $200 for a subwoofer....


Any good thoughts? Most suggestions here are for small speakers all around. Was looking at the Jamo but not sure if there is anything else out there


----------



## itols

Hello,


I posted this in the speaker thread but this may be a better thread to ask. I orginally started looking at a HTIB but everything I read said I wouldn't be satisfied with a HTIB.


I am setting up my office for my 2nd home theater to watch movies and sporting events. The office is basically 12' X 14' but not symetrical.


My living room was originally set up in a 5.1 surround, my equipment is pretty old but works very well. The living room setup includes B&K Ref 50 and amp, Mirage 890i (older bi-polar circa 1990) as the surrounds, Mirage 190i (bookshelf speakers) as front L/R, Definitive Technology CLR 2002 as the center, and a Sunfire Mark IV subwoofer. I know this is not the best set up but I moved into a house with built in cabinets for the TV monitor and I have to contend with my wife's idea of aesthetics that is why the bigger towers are on the back wall. The TV is limited to a 32 Sony Bravia because of the size of the cabinet. The livihng room is used for entertaining and playing music where this system works pretty well.


Now I want to use my office as 2nd home theater and decided to move my Mirage 890i's up to the office as my front L/R spreakers where I just recently purchased a Panasonic TC-P50V10. I've also purchased a Denon AVR-1910 (got a great price at Electronic Expo for $389) and waiting delivery.


I now need surround speakers for both office and living room, a center speaker and sub for the office (I think the Sunfire subwoofer would be to much for the office). I've been considering Mirage and Definitive Technology for the surrounds and center. Maybe a package using the Procinema 600 and splitting the surrounds and taking the sub that comes with the Procinema package or buying two pair of Mirage nanosats or omnisats and adding a Hsu subwoofer. I'd like to keep the additional speakers under $1000, my wife would like it to be half of that but that's my battle.


Anyone have any speaker suggestions? thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Hey guys, if i have 3 HDMI devices and only 2 slots on my AVR i understand i will need an HDMI switcher. Thing is my AVR can't handle HDMI audio and it only has 2 Optical inputs, the HDMI switches only have inputs for HDMI, am i screwed having only 2 devices being able to use my speakers?


----------



## Tulpa

You can also get an optical switch. It'll get convoluted and you'll have to switch each separately, but it will work.


I would look into getting a better AVR at that point, unless you bought the thing recently and can't return it.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Yah it's about a year old (HK 146)....though you might be right, less cables, more HDMI inputs and maybe even one of those fancy Anchor Bay chips


----------



## Baller23217

I'm trying to put together a budget 2.1 system (to be expanded later to 5.1).


I want to spend less than $500 on a receiver, 2 speakers, and maybe a sub.


I listen to a lot of music but the setup would also be used for PS3, blu ray, and DirecTV. I've been checking craigslist or slightly used receivers and think I'd be happy with a pair of Polk r50 floorstanding speakers (could I get away with no sub??)


I live in a condo and my living room is fairly small with 10 ft ceilings. What receivers or speaker options should I be looking at? I was recommended an Onkyo 606 as a good starter.


I would jump on this deal but I don't need the DVD player and refuse to pay for something I don't need. He won't piece it out...at least not yet.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/1699486839.html 



Thanks in advance for all input and advice.


----------



## houstoned

hey guys,


first and foremost, i love the site and how much knowledge is passed around here. i've learned so much already that i'm kinda confusing myself.







i posted this question in the "home theater in a box" section, but this looks to be a much better place for responses. i got 0 responses in that section.










room size: medium sized living room with a pretty open floor plan. about 10' ceilings.

use: 70% gaming (ps3)/movies, 25% HD cable/sports, 5% music.

budget: *about $1000 just for the receiver, sub, (2) floor standing speakers, and maybe a center channel.* i will add onto the setup as i go along. i ultimately wanna end up with a nice 5.1 system with a wireless rear surround setup.


well, i haven't bought any home audio equipment in a number of years, so i'm way out of the loop. i have to pretty much start from scratch cuz right now all i have is a dinky little logitech 2.1 z4 system (was for my computer) hooked up to my TV via headphone jack. although the setup is better than the tv's speakers, it is definitely not cuttin it for my gaming and movies.


i want to be able to upgrade later so i opted to go against a "home theater in a box" type of deal. i would really like to start off with a nice 3.1 system (receiver + (2) floorstanding speakers + sub + center channel) for now. i don't really have a set budget, $1000 is just what i wanna spend right now to get me started. i will add onto the setup as i get more familiar with newer hardware and things like that. i wanna end up with a nice 5.1 system that has a very clean, minimalist look to it. i hate wires showing!


thanks in advance for any input. yur help is very much appreciated.


----------



## bballgms

i posted this in other section but it seems most appropiate in this section

i have looking to buy a reciever and speakers duh lol

my room size is 12x12

budget is 450-500 including speakers.

i am looking to get a 3.1 or 2.1 and then upgrade as i can to get the matching pairs.

it will mostly be used for music, tv, movies, ps3 in that order of importance


any suggestions?


----------



## nik00

Hey everyone, after stalking around these forums and trying to absorb as much information as I can, I think I have enough knowledge in my head to make a post and see what you guys think =)


I am currently using Logitech X540's on my desktop computer, which I use for movies, music, games and everything in between. My computer is the absolute only thing these speakers will be on for at least 4 years or so, so this is far and beyond my main concern.


Logically, I was thinking of Z5500's as the next step to these speakers, but upon reading around these forums (and some others) a little bit, it seems like maybe those are not the best price for sound performance items for me!


I am fairly against buying a HTIB, especially when I don't need the DVD player/Bluray player. I am pretty much thinking of getting the cheapest 5.1 receiver I can get (that works with PC or possibly optical), and either the Polk 150's to start, or maybe just jump right into Energy Take Classic 5.0.


The main things I am wondering is:

a)How cheap/old can I go with a receiver before harming my sound? I've seen alot of praise around here for Onkyo receivers, but the cheapest one I can find new is still in the ~300 range, while I see alot of recommendations for buying receivers used, I'm not sure which models are good to go for, even afer perusing the Recievers forum.

b)Would I be better off going for Logitech Z5500s or a similar set (I believe klipsch has a comparable set, suggestions welcome!) that are solely for computer use (since that is all they will be used for), or will a decent Onkyo reciever + bookshelves + a nice sub put me miles ahead of those configurations?


My budget is a minimum of 400$ I guess (the 5500's) but I am willing to go to ~600 probably if I can really hear it =D


Please let me know your opinions in this thread or by PM, I'm having a hard time moving on from these X540s!


Thanks,


Nick


Edit:

Example, there is a Onkyo TX-DS656 for sale locally, would I be safe in picking one of those up, or is it just too outdated for a 5.1 computer setup?


----------



## samsurd2

^^ Given the choice between the Energy Take Classic 5.0 speakers and Polk R150s, the much lower frequency response of the Polks (65 Hz) vs the Takes (115 Hz) would send me to the Polks. This would be especially true if I was going to temporarily run without a sub. JMO, YMMV


Here's an example of what could be done with $600. You could get a pair of R150s ($100), a matching Polk CSR center ($100) from Crutchfield and a BIC F12 subwoofer from BLT ( http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID !) for $200. That would provide a nice 3.1 system. Then get a used or refurb 5.1 AVR with the other $200 and save some $$ for the eventual addition of a pair of surround speakers. I'm sure there are other possible scenarios like this.


----------



## cornhulio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nik00* /forum/post/18759028
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, after stalking around these forums and trying to absorb as much information as I can, I think I have enough knowledge in my head to make a post and see what you guys think =)
> 
> 
> I am currently using Logitech X540's on my desktop computer, which I use for movies, music, games and everything in between. My computer is the absolute only thing these speakers will be on for at least 4 years or so, so this is far and beyond my main concern.
> 
> 
> Logically, I was thinking of Z5500's as the next step to these speakers, but upon reading around these forums (and some others) a little bit, it seems like maybe those are not the best price for sound performance items for me!
> 
> 
> I am fairly against buying a HTIB, especially when I don't need the DVD player/Bluray player. I am pretty much thinking of getting the cheapest 5.1 receiver I can get (that works with PC or possibly optical), and either the Polk 150's to start, or maybe just jump right into Energy Take Classic 5.0.
> 
> 
> The main things I am wondering is:
> 
> a)How cheap/old can I go with a receiver before harming my sound? I've seen alot of praise around here for Onkyo receivers, but the cheapest one I can find new is still in the ~300 range, while I see alot of recommendations for buying receivers used, I'm not sure which models are good to go for, even afer perusing the Recievers forum.
> 
> b)Would I be better off going for Logitech Z5500s or a similar set (I believe klipsch has a comparable set, suggestions welcome!) that are solely for computer use (since that is all they will be used for), or will a decent Onkyo reciever + bookshelves + a nice sub put me miles ahead of those configurations?
> 
> 
> My budget is a minimum of 400$ I guess (the 5500's) but I am willing to go to ~600 probably if I can really hear it =D
> 
> 
> Please let me know your opinions in this thread or by PM, I'm having a hard time moving on from these X540s!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Example, there is a Onkyo TX-DS656 for sale locally, would I be safe in picking one of those up, or is it just too outdated for a 5.1 computer setup?



Jamo 5.1 speakers only $200-$250 shipped

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search 

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...06-hcs-1-black


----------



## 9985

So my sister is getting married; she & her fiance have a 55" LCD, a BluRay player & a Wii, currently just using TV's built-in speakers. I wanted to buy them a decent entry to mid level 5.1 system (living room size TBD as they are moving soon)- the HTIB offerings look like garbage, so I poked around & came up with this:


Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver

2x Polk Audio Monitor 40 (fronts)

1x Polk Audio CS2 (center)

2x Polk Audio Monitor 30 (surround)

BIC America F12 (subwoofer)


All for just over $1K shipped. I Tried to find a single internet vendor that had everything, best I could come up with was 2 for this mix- the subwoofer offerings seem to suck at most places, had to go to another vendor for that. I figure if they end up with a bigger room they could easily add another pair of Monitor 30s to upgrade to 7.1 later (or bigger fronts & demote the 40s to surrounds).


They will be using it for 70% HD cable TV; 15% Wii, 15% BluRay - no music except maybe a music channel on cable during the infrequent house party.


Anyone think I can I do any better than that for a grand?? Hurry- wedding is in 2 weeks, I need to buy this stuff...


----------



## DLFB

Is it possible to get something similar to the Sony DG910 receiver for under $150?


I need some entry level receiver for my Athena Micra 6 and I'm not trying to break the bank. Some entry level Onkyo/HK are good but they're only PASS THROUGH HDMI.


----------



## rugabu

Currently I have an old JVC dedicated music system set with 2 tape decks, a 6-CD drive bay, and 4 speakers, but I'm looking to upgrade to something that plays CDs as well as works with these:


Panasonic 50" Plasma (HDMI-capable)

Cable DVR Box (HDMI-capable)

DVD Player in component (or Blu-Ray in a future upgrade)

HTPC (HDMI carries audio)


I've been looking around and it seems to be hard to find any sort of dedicated CD-playing music systems (not having tape decks in the new system is fine), but the feature I'm looking for if possible is to have a CD-player with multiple-CD switching capabilities.


Looking for advice on these two solutions I'm thinking of:


1) Pick out a new HTIB/speaker set, receiver, and a CD player, and have them all work with the TV/DVR/DVD/HTPC


2) Just find another more modern dedicated CD player system. (if they still do exist)


I'm leaning towards choice 1, but my budget will have to be in the $400-600 area.


----------



## livendie4golf

This is a great thread. Thanks for all of the info!!


----------



## DrPhD

Hello everyone, I'm from Europe and I would like to assemble a receiver/speaker combo.

I live in a small apartment so that will probably be a factor in deciding which components to get.

If you want to see pictures of my apartment, I put the link to them at the end of the post.

I'm looking to spend no more than €1000 on the components right now. The idea is to end up with at least a 5.1 setup but I understand if it's not possible from the beginning.


The system will be connected to a 42" Panasonic TX-P42V20, a PS3, an Xbox360 and maybe a PS2.

So what I need is:

1) A receiver which will last me a long time.

2) Speakers. (I know nothing about them...)


Thanks in advance!


+My tiny home theatre project.+


----------



## schultzed




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mittyman* /forum/post/18260582
> 
> 
> Just curious about this deal for $749 at newegg:
> 
> 
> Yammy 765 receiver
> 
> Klipsch sw-350 sub
> 
> Energy Takes 5.0
> 
> 
> Is this a good matchup? Price looks real good.



Thanks, for posting about newegg--I didn't check the Energy Takes there. I just ordered them from Amazon (same price) but with Newegg, you get a $100 gift card!


Luckily they haven't shipped and I was able to cancel.


----------



## schultzed

I was going to go the HTIB route but got detoured by this site.










I went from the Onyko 3300 to the 6300 but once I got to 500 bucks, it started to make sense to do separates.


There is a nice deal on the Pioneer 1020 at Amazon (350 after a coupon promo code IO2OFALL) With these I'm going to try some JBLs from BBuy . . . for 190. But I also want to give the Energy Takes a try. I was going to do Amazon but the $100 gift card from Newegg is terrific. I have a feeling that I'll just return the JBLs (B&M is easy). If I kept them the budget would be about $600 . . . the Energy Takes would make it about $700 (counting cables and wire from Monoprice).


----------



## natrone06

Combine these http://www.amazon.com/KEF-C1SYSTEM-S...4693029&sr=8-6 with any receiver and you would have yourself a nice little setup.


----------



## metalzo

Hi Guys,


Like many others in this forum I'd like to create a home theater on a budget and don't even know where to start. I prefer to get separates as I know HTIBs are not the same quality. That being said my total budget is about $500-700 so I don't want to go too crazy. The room is a bit large and open ended at 14' by 18' and my other components are a 55" Samsung 1080p LCD, XBOX 360, Playstation 3, Wii, and Motorola Cable Box from Comcast. My uses are gaming, movies (some in Blu-Ray), and Netflix streaming. I'd like to connect everything to the receiver and have it all pass through to the TV with a single HDMI cable.


Here is what I would like out of the system:

5.1 Surround (expandable to 7.1 is a bonus but definitely not required)

HDMI 1.4 (or whatever the latest spec is)

The latest audio decoders

At least 4 HDMI Repeaters


Also I'm still not sure how I'm going to run wires for the surround so I may look into a wireless solution such as rocketfish. Smaller speakers is a plus as well. Product availability on Amazon is a plus as I prefer to purchase products there. Sorry I know this is a bit open ended but I'm really not well versed in home theater. Thanks for any help you can give!


----------



## IowaGuy

Onkyo 308 200 bucks

A pair of monitor 40s, 110 bucks when on sale, get stands. Use velcro tabs.

Pair of monitor 30s, 80 bucks on sale

Monitor c10 center, 80 bucks on sale

F12 bic America sub, 200 bucks


Sign up for newegg email, monitors go on email sale all the time, use promo code.


----------



## metalzo

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I've narrowed down my choices a bit so I wanted to get your thoughts on these setups.


Option A: Around $500

Onkyo 508 OR Pioneer 820 + Polk RM 705 5.1 Package


Option B: $600 but includes speaker wire
Denon 591 + Boston Acoustic Speaker Package 




I'm leaning toward Option B because it seems that the quality is a bit higher though either option seems to have similar specifications. Once again the room is about 14x18 and I plan to connect a PS3, XBOX360, and Cable Box all via HDMI plus a Wii via component. Planning to have a single HDMI between the Receiver and TV which should work because these are all HDMI 1.4a repeaters. I'm using a Harmony One to control everything so I don't care about the included remote or anything. Any thoughts on which to choose? Thanks!


----------



## onebxr

 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=6297343 


I would get this. This is a great bargain and down the road you can get another sub as this is 7.2.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Anyone tried out the Energy Bookshelves for $80? Or the floorstanders for $150? Thinking of getting those for another room, but they have a good reputation so i started wondering if they might be better than the Polk R series that i was recommended in this thread


----------



## b18turboef

great thread!!


----------



## BAMAVADER

Even with the momentum at Diamondstar...the whole thing fell apart.


----------



## Vader182

Hey guys, does anyone know of a decent receiver that supports 3D/7.1 that's less than $200?


----------



## BAMAVADER




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vader182* /forum/post/20233560
> 
> 
> Hey guys, does anyone know of a decent receiver that supports 3D/7.1 that's less than $200?


 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882120164


----------



## Fredo_G

Hi everyone,


Has anyone ever heard the Mirage Nano Sat 5.1 system?


thanks.


----------



## Chekoman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fredo_G* /forum/post/20908583
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> Has anyone ever heard the Mirage Nano Sat 5.1 system?
> 
> 
> thanks.



I'm also very interested in this system, the thread doesn't really talk about it to determine if is a great system or not, I'm about to get speakers for my media room (18'x12') and I wanting to know if these will be good enough.

anyone?










thanks in advance.


----------



## garfield17

All, just thought I would throw this out into the list.


I like the look/size of HTIB, so went looking for a receiver that was a little smaller foot print.


I haven't tested/reviewed, but think these fit the bill
Marantz NR1602 


Marantz NR1402


----------



## slenser

Wow, the 1602 is really nice. Too bad it's twice as much as the Pioneer 1021k I just bought.


----------



## MeaninglessNick

Unfortunately it seems like many of the great deals people suggest are not available in Canada (and the small town where I live doesn't help).


I mainly want to play from a "patriot box office" HDMI (with audio over HDMI) to a Tosh

40 inch TV. Eventually I want to replace the the PBO with a real HTPC.


Looking at what is available online in Canada, I am thinking about a


- Pioneer VSX 521

- Onkyo 309


for a receiver.


I see I can save a bit and get a

- Sony STDH520

- Sherwood RD6506


Those two brands don't seem to be as well liked here, but maybe at the bottom end it doesn't matter.


I have a pair of Polk monitor II 30's, and Visions.ca has what looks like a good deal on the Polk TSi C10.


Does that sound a reasonable sound match?


That would get me "3.0" for about $400 incremental.


Another speaker option (but about $140 more expensive up front) is the jamo A102 5.1 set. Which sounds like a pretty decent deal considering it includes a powered sub and rear speakers.




The "room" is about 11 wide by 14 deep (where the TV is on the "front" wall)

The back wall is actually a bookshelf coming to about 2 feet below the ceiling;

most of the left wall opens up into a 10x10 room.


I can put speaker on various shelves on the walls; there isn't really any floorspace.


Behind the bookshelves is my office (another 13 ft or so). I was wondering about (eventually) putting another set of bookshelf speakers in my office and having them do double duty as speakers for my office.


I (obviously) don't know much about surround audio; is it plausible just to output stereo to the rear speakers?


----------



## carpboy

Is there a good primer anywhere on what and how current audio components work and what is available? I am massively upgrading from an old crappy Sony HTiB, and I don't know any of this stuff.


For instance, why do I need a receiver w/ HDMI inputs?


My use will be almost exclusively video, minimal music playing.


Thanks.


----------



## djalali59

What determines the power of a system? Is it solely based on the watts? If so, what range of watts can be possible with a system consisting of the listed components on the first post?


----------



## hadees

Is there any sort of consensus now? The original post is from 2007 so I'm guessing I shouldn't buy those. I was originally thinking of going with a soundbar but now I'm thinking maybe I should buy things separately although I'm trying to only spend around $500 at first. I have a small room and my couch is against the wall but I think I could get a speaker to the left and right of the couch as well as maybe a soundbar or something in my entertainment center.


----------



## Jamieb81

BB had the Polk blackstone set up for $299.00 comes w/four satelite speakers and sound bar, I had to purchase the sub woofer seperately Polk PSW 10 for$199.00 my viewing room also small and tight. Awesome sound for the price and size. The additional speaker stand were $30.00 per pair.


----------



## YeuEmMaiMai




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *carpboy* /forum/post/21417255
> 
> 
> Is there a good primer anywhere on what and how current audio components work and what is available? I am massively upgrading from an old crappy Sony HTiB, and I don't know any of this stuff.
> 
> 
> For instance, why do I need a receiver w/ HDMI inputs?
> 
> 
> My use will be almost exclusively video, minimal music playing.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



The very first thing you want to find out is will your HTIB receiver work with your TV?


Believe it or not due to some manufacturers poor implimentation of the spec and just general problems you may find that HDMI may not work for you


now with that out of the way


different types of audio connections available on current consuemer receivers (new to old)


Inputs


1. *HDMI*. Typically 2-4

2. *SPDIF*. (coax 75ohm RCA plug) typically 1 or 2.

2. *OPTICAL*. (tosslink) typically 1 or 2

3. *RCA* Multiple L+R on average plus 1 set of multi channel like 5.1 or 7.1, etc)

4. *Phonograph*. RCA jack for turntable input.

5. *Tape* Not so common RCA input

6. *VCR* Not so common RCA input

7. *DTV or CABLE* starting to fade away


* inputs 5-7 are typically called AV inputs nowadays


Typical outputs

*HDMI*. Typically used for audio return channel and to pass video (processed or unprocessed) usually 1 output but some receivers have 2 or more (read more expensive)
*Pre-out*. (RCA) typically 1 set matching the receiver ie 7.1 receiver should have 7.1 preouts. Commonly found on mid level receivers and up.
*Speaker*. (binding post) anywhere from 2 to 11 typically, common is 5 or 7
*Subwoofer out*. Goes to a powered sub of your choice
*Monitor out* (RCA line level outputs)


I know you did not ask about video but here goes

*HDMI* Newest standard
*Component* Analog video inputs that are artificially limited to 1080i on the blu-ray players but can handle 1080p and beyond. (VGA is an example of component video)
*S-video* Older standard for analog video that offered upwards of 500 lines of resolution
*Composite* slightly better than RF
*RF Modulation* typically not found on receivers but is common on VCRs and older game consoles


----------



## zurc

Hi everyone,


Has anyone ever heard the Mirage Nano Sat 5.1 system?


thanks.


******************************************************8


I have them and they're great for a small room.


----------



## sourbeef

*4 Years Ago, I reminisce...*


I was brand new to the home theater thing. I had just bought my first big screen Panasonic 58 inch plasma. I was fretting over the speakers in the TV because they rattled at times and it was driving me nuts. Someone in the plasma thread planted a seed in my mind saying "you really should look into getting a HT surround speaker setup instead of just using your TV speakers. It would be a worthwhile investment if you can afford it". So after that was planted, I was looking into a simple HTIB system to get me started. But then I looked at *THIS THREAD*. It changed my home theater destiny as I decided to piece together my own speaker surround system. I think the subwoofer was especially important (I chose SVS). AVR too.


So I credit this thread with planting the seed in my mind to put it together piece by piece. I ended up choosing Polk Audio towers for my right, left, center, and back surrounds.


----------



## sourbeef

Here's what I wrote in my first post on this thread on 2/8/08 :










You guys are KILLING me with this in a good way.


I was almost committed to buying the Onkyo 908 HTIB, but then I started reading through this thread. There is a lot of lovin' for Polk speakers in this thread. I just may do an about face here, get the Onkyo receiver (either 605 or 705- I like the extra HDMI with this one), then make separate purchases of somekind of Polk. Certainly not top of the line, they are too damn expensive. But some of their stuff looks affordable and comes highly recommended.


----------



## Milenkod

Looking to help my Father In Law. He's looking at the Denon DHT-1312BA system for his "man-cave" project. His room a fully enclosed 15ft x 12ft room. Is there something he can piece together for less at better quality? ...or what can he put together for the same price that will outperform that Denon HTIB set-up? Hoping that the component are readily available from BestBuy or Amazon.

Thanks.


----------



## huskie2000

Hi Everyone


I posted a question in the speaker section but thought this would also be a good place to ask.


I live in a condo and setting up a home theater in living room. Currently i have:


LG 47LH90 (the calibration recommendations from this site have made this display absolutely spectacular







)


panasonic BD60 blu ray player


I have just ordered a denon 1612 receiver from ac4l at a great price (its refurbished but has warranty)


I have been given 2 Yamaha NS 5290 speakers that I intend to use as my front L and R bookshelf (not enough space for tower fronts).


so wondering how to proceed for next steps? im really struggling with what to do for center speaker - does anyone know of a center speaker that matches the Yamaha 5290?


for surrounds, the polk OWM3 look pretty good.


but the polk subwoofer PSW10, of which I found a discount for $89, have fairly negative reviews. is there another sub around $100? i underestimated how much these can cost.


Thanks in advance


----------



## huskie2000

any suggestions?


If its difficult to find a matching center, what if I moved the yamaha 5290 to the L R surrounds and got polk monitor 30 bookshelfs and a polk CS1 ?



thanks


----------



## afrogt

your yamaha speakers will be fine as surrounds if that's the way you choose to go.


I doubt youll find the matching center for those speakers. They did make one with dual 4" woofers but good luck finding one.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/home-speaker-systems/ns-c3290/?mode=model 


It'd be easier to find another used pair of those bookshelf speakers and then use one as a center by laying it on the side.


----------



## Kingcarcas

Hey i remember this thread!!! The Pioneer lineup should definitely be mentioned here........oh how far we've come


----------



## huskie2000

thanks afrogt for your feedback. using a bookshelf as a center speaker is an interesting idea that i would not have thought of.



I got my denon and set everything up. the Audessey really helped a lot, as did the on-screen GUI. 10 years ago, i would have struggled with this.


so for right now, have the Yamaha as the front L and R and I went ahead and got the PSW10. This subwoofer has a lot of detractors, but so far it sounds pretty good to me (then again, Apocalypse Now can probably make any system sound good







) so even as a 2.1 system, it sounds good overall.


I mentioned the monitor 30s, but im really tempted by the monitor 40 speakers and the CS1. Looks like reviews have been pretty good - anyone else have experience with these as Fronts?


Looking forward to finally having a 5.1 sound system in place after just relying on tv speakers - i guess for about a year I was too blown away by the picture quality of the LED 47LH90 and was content with what I had







. But the other part of it was I did not want to settle for HTIB. Had a cousin that got one and it was a bad experience. The dvd function stopped working and he was pretty much out of luck cuz the system was all in one. Looks like the onkyos are not like that, but with 2 free yamaha speakers, I was confident I could get a good receiver at a great price and then just continue to build.


one annoying thing -

RE: my panny BD 60- i guess it'll default to regular dolby digital or DTS unless you change the secondary audio to OFF and make sure that TrueHD is selected? hopefully things have changed for panny blu-ray players since then.


----------



## [email protected]

Hey Guys.. this had been THE thread I looked up when I purchased my first Home theater. I am back again to look for my second. I remember seeing the same setup in the first posting back then. Hasn't there been any updates to what I can buy today? If there is one in this big thread can anyone point me there. Again thanks all for continuing this amazing thread.

TIA

Sudip


P.S: the entire look and feel of this site has changed since I last visited.


----------



## afrogt

It would probably help if you provided a budget. HTIB alternatives were easier back then before all this HDMI and networking.


----------



## [email protected]

I am looking at around $1000 for a 5.1 setup with a 7.2 receiver (just in case I decide to add two more). I don't need 3D ready receivers. My gameroom is decent size not Huge. I already got a 60" LED so need something to accompany that. My now retired previous setup was a Onkyo HTIB (purchased 2008) with a Velodyn Sub and I was extremely happy with that.


----------



## afrogt

So if you're happy with the subwoofer do you only need the 5 other speakers? What size? Towers, bookshelf, satellites?


Any new receiver will be 3D capable. Doesn't mean you have to use that feature though.


Does your receiver need networking or internet features?


----------



## Mintu

i have just blocked Denon 1613 receiver costing me 300 dollars.

i have only 500 dollars budget.

can i ask you guys to suggest best available choice for 5.1 speakers costing within 200 dollars.


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## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mintu*  /t/809777/official-htib-alternatives-thread/3330#post_22372892
> 
> 
> i have just blocked Denon 1613 receiver costing me 300 dollars.
> 
> i have only 500 dollars budget.
> 
> can i ask you guys to suggest best available choice for 5.1 speakers costing within 200 dollars.



Polk RM 6750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290066&Tpk=polk%20rm6750


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## taltal13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt*  /t/809777/official-htib-alternatives-thread/3330#post_22401917
> 
> 
> Polk RM 6750
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290066&Tpk=polk%20rm6750



Would you go with the Polks or this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001202C44?ie=UTF8&tag=thewire06-20 


Thinking about buying the Onkyo TX-NR4141 and pairing with either of those speakers.....thoughts?


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## Shagz

quote name="Shagz" url="/t/1399319/official-samsung-unxxes8000-owners-thread/7250_50#post_22658778"] http://www.whalenstyle.com/category/Entertainment/group/Consoles/000284 

Just grabbed this today, Wife loves it..Center channel speaker placement will be tricky with a 5.1. where to put it? Here is what i am looking at don't mind the mess










 
 


800.00 or a tad higher is my spending budget.


what do you reccomend?


thanks for your time


Marty


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## Ely51um

I just wanted to say that this thread helped me out immensely a few years back when I was looking to purchase my first audio system for the beginnings of what would eventually turn into my dedicated home theater room.


At the time, I was dead set on a HTIB solution because for whatever reason, I felt that I didn't need to spend much money on a decent audio system. After reading several comments on the forums about how people were not satisfied with HTIB systems for very long, and then spending more time researching the alternatives, I made the decision to wait and buy something that would hopefully keep me happy for years instead of months.


Here's the system I originally purchased (the Polks were on sale at Frys):


Fronts: Polk RTi8

Center: Polk CSi5

Surrounds: Polk RTi4

Subwoofer: Bic H100

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR505


Upgrades since that time (in order):


Power amp: Emotiva XPA-5 (the Onkyo didn't have pre-outs, so I switched to using my HTPC as the primary source. Lesson learned: always buy a receiver with pre-outs!)

Projector: Epson 8700UB (along with a 106" screen from Monoprice)

Subwoofer: Power Sound Audio XV-15


As you can see, I'm still rocking the original Polk speakers that I bought those years ago, and I'm still quite pleased with their performance when it comes to HT usage. Of course, the rest of my system is beginning to outclass them now, but thanks to my original decision not to throw money at speakers that would of left me wanting for more, I've been able to get a lot more value out of them in the long run as I save each year to upgrade another part of the system.


So my advice to anyone who's on the fence about what to do next, I'd strongly recommend that you take the time to really think about what you want to get out of your system, and then research and keep an eye out for deals to help you slowly piece together something that you're more likely to be satisfied with. Believe me, the upgrade bug hits you sooner than you'd think, so get off to a good start and save yourself some money in the long run!


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## Mintu

I have finalized on below configuration:

1. Denon 1613

2. Energy take 5.1 classic


now i need your suggestions / clarifications here if i need these things necessarily:

1. Monoprice 100ft 16AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire Cable

2. Sewell Deadbolt Banana Plugs with Fast-Lock Technology, how many i need for this above setup?

3. do i need separate cable for sub-woofer? 1 out from receiver and 2 input to sub ? really confused.


my longest run of cable will be 40 feet.


need your suggestions please.


all purchases will be from amazon. so a definite link to the site would be highly appreciated.


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## memo90061

If I wanted to spend 300 would I be better off buying a HTIB or everything separately?


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## Ganesh Raja

We have samsung ES8000 (55 inch ) TV and bought a Blu ray player... now we are planning to buy a 5.1 speakers and I'm really confused between soundbar + AV receiver and HTIB.. Since we already have a Blu ray player, why cant we buy a soundbar alone and connect it to the bluray player or directly to TV?? Is it really necessary to buy AV Receiver?? and If im right, there is no need to buy HTIB since we already bought Bluray player?


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## hhawk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ganesh Raja*  /t/809777/official-htib-alternatives-thread/3360#post_22908640
> 
> 
> We have samsung ES8000 (55 inch ) TV and bought a Blu ray player... now we are planning to buy a 5.1 speakers and I'm really confused between soundbar + AV receiver and HTIB.. Since we already have a Blu ray player, why cant we buy a soundbar alone and connect it to the bluray player or directly to TV?? Is it really necessary to buy AV Receiver?? and If im right, there is no need to buy HTIB since we already bought Bluray player?




The sound bar basically fakes the surround sound that the 5.1 speakers would actually recreate. So you are correct that you would not want to use a sound bar with the 5.1 speakers, as the center channel speaker and front side speakers would be redundant with the sound bar. If the sound bar is self powered you can just connect it to the TV. If not (and I do not own one) I imagine you would need a receiver to power it up You would almost certainly need a receiver for the 5.1 speakers. Just make sure it is a surround receiver and not just a stereo receiver. (This is because you will need the 5 channels to power the 5 speakers if you go that route. There will be 4 regular speakers and some sort of woofer or sub woofer speaker for the deeper bass.)


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## htspeakerguy


Not sure how relevant this is, but I gave up on trying to set up a home theater in my condo. No space and I can't listen loud at all without disturbing my wife or the neighbors.

 

Once I found out I could get 7.1 surround in headphones that sounds better than my friend's full home theater setup, I was sold.

 

I bought this software, Out Of Your Head  , that works with any headphones. I just started with some cheap Monoprice $30 headphones connected to my laptop. I may upgrade to something better soon. I installed their trial version, but ended up buying it.

 

I thought I was going to have to wait until DTS Headphone X comes out, but this software works great now. Worth checking out if you don't have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.


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## trebor1005

*Samsung Smart TV wont get sound from my tv apps via my reciever.*

I searched high and low. I have a Samsung Smart TV that I connected via HDMI 2 ARC to my Sony surround sound. All components work fine with audio when selecting. with the exception of my Samsung apps, for example Netflix. I can get sound via TV speakers if I turn them on, or use a optical cable from the TV to my Sony receive into the TV component. 
I can't get sound thru my receiver like I use to by just placing my receiver component on TV.


It use to work, don't know what changed. I did go into the Samsung app and tried to get Anynet+ to connect to my receiver and turn on but I get this error message. (Anynet+ device is not connected please check connection and retry. Needless to say I am connect. 


Any help or suggestions.


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## Otto Pylot

Anynet+ is Samsung's version of CEC (Consumer Electronic Control). This sounds like an ARC/CEC incompatibility which is not uncommon due to lack of standardized protocols. Sometimes a previously working system will start to have issues after an update. There really isn't a fix for it either other than disabling ARC/CEC on all HDMI connected devices and using and optical cable from the tv to the receiver for SmartApps and/or the internal ATSC tuner if you are using that for OTA television reception or have your cable tv connected directly to the tv via the coax/ant input. You will have to manually select the input source or use a programmable remote like a Harmony for single remote control of your HTS. The tv's speakers should be off all of the time as well so that you are using the HTS exclusively for all audio. The receiver should be the hub of your system meaning that all of you devices should be connected via HDMI to the receiver for all audio and then a single HDMI connection to the tv for video. Then an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for SmartApps and/or OTA/cable tv.


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## steve4king

*Update to HTIB Alternatives?*

This list looks great.. except that it's eight years old.

I was looking at a vizio soundbar with wireless sub/satellites, but the idea of HTIB makes me.. sad.

Anyone of you audio geniuses feel like creating an update to the original post? Not necessarily links on where to buy, but just solid receivers, speakers and subs with current features that will blow any soundbar quality (though not as concerned with volume) out of the water.

Specifically interested in wireless rears/sub (seen "Rocketfish" around the forum).

Thanks,
-Stephen


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## kentg

steve4king said:


> This list looks great.. except that it's eight years old.
> 
> I was looking at a vizio soundbar with wireless sub/satellites, but the idea of HTIB makes me.. sad.
> 
> Anyone of you audio geniuses feel like creating an update to the original post? Not necessarily links on where to buy, but just solid receivers, speakers and subs with current features that will blow any soundbar quality (though not as concerned with volume) out of the water.
> 
> Specifically interested in wireless rears/sub (seen "Rocketfish" around the forum).
> 
> Thanks,
> -Stephen


I am in a similar boat I think. Im buying a new LG OLED 55ef9500 soon depending on what is announced in january the next model of it by march at the latest. Im replacing my Pioneer Plasma after 8 years. 
I also bought a Bose 321 system at that time and have been happy with it but I only use the sound part since I have a dedicated blue ray now and will be upgrading that as well.
I want a 3.1 type system and the rear speakers are something to maybe add if they are wireless. 
I have no complaints about the quality of the Bose but then again I have not been shopping to compare current quality. 
The OEM speakers are not going to be enough but I also dont need a $1000 system either. I will spend that much if it is warrented. 
Im looking for some options.


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## []V[]addog

steve4king said:


> This list looks great.. except that it's eight years old.
> 
> I was looking at a vizio soundbar with wireless sub/satellites, but the idea of HTIB makes me.. sad.
> 
> Anyone of you audio geniuses feel like creating an update to the original post? Not necessarily links on where to buy, but just solid receivers, speakers and subs with current features that will blow any soundbar quality (though not as concerned with volume) out of the water.
> 
> Specifically interested in wireless rears/sub (seen "Rocketfish" around the forum).
> 
> Thanks,
> -Stephen


the thing about "wireless" speakers is it is only referring to the sound portion. They still need to be powered. So no matter what you need to plug them in to an outlet, and have wires from a box to both rear speakers. It is not nearly as effect as it sounds.


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## Hotwheels1

Any opinions on Polk Audio R40'S, R15'S, CS245i and a Velodyne F-1200 12 inch SUB vs RM6750 HTIB


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## Otto Pylot

Hotwheels1 said:


> Any opinions on Polk Audio R40'S, R15'S, CS245i and a Velodyne F-1200 12 inch SUB vs RM6750 HTIB



You've replied to a post that is over two years old. If you have specific speaker questions, you should ask them in the Speaker Forum. Separates are usually better than "packaged" sets.


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## Hotwheels1

Otto Pylot said:


> You've replied to a post that is over two years old. If you have specific speaker questions, you should ask them in the Speaker Forum. Separates are usually better than "packaged" sets.


Ok thank you


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