# UHD Blu-ray and Long HDMI cables - what works !



## alebonau

I think its worth posting a thread here to help those trying to work their way through the mine field of uhd blu-ray and the challenge that presents to most when comes to finding a hdmi cable over long lengths that does indeed work ! 

as a note we are talking cable lengths beyond about 7.5m(25ft) / 10m(32/35ft) that most people struggle to find solutions and the kind of cable length most need if running projectors and especially in dedicated rooms and the like where the source player/av processor is remotely situated

first up I want to acknowledge this article from David Vaughn of sound of vision with this article of his, something I found immensely in finding my way through the mine field ! 
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/uhd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-let-battle-begin#MQ95b5Xt8yWtfr8p.97

I wanted to post this thread because I honestly dont believe it needs to be a lottery some feel it is.

there are tried and tested solutions that people have found to WORK. yes they actually work.

e.g. in the article above David found the audio quest carbon to work,
http://www.audioquest.com/usb-digital-audio/carbon
though I guess some will be thrown by the huge price of it...

and there are other solutions,

I similarly found my generic 10M hdmi simply no go for uhd blu-ray. this was with samsung uhd blu-ray player, marantz AV8802A processor and feeding a jvc x7000/RS500 projector. 

myself living in the part of world I am, just got in touch with a local hdmi company thats been making cables for years at the quality end of the market. they straight off pointed me to their PRS range of hdmi cables which they guaranteed for UHD blu-ray. 

http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm

this is specifically the one I got,

__
https://flic.kr/p/26929238775
​
I wasn't fully convinced however picked up from local retailer, theres a few around me that sell the brand with the confidence that could bring back if didnt. well I tried it for a week to be sure, throwing all could at it... and it indeed worked. it was only after a week of testing I then ran it though walls up and down walls under the house.

and in the months that have followed I can absolutely confirm this works completely faultlessly for uhd blu-ray e.g. with the 13 or so uhd blu-rays I have now sent over the cable with no issue.

are there others ?

want to bring your attendion to this post of @swest ... with a couple of examples there, swest is running the same equipment combination as mine,
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...000-x7000-owners-thread-395.html#post44955082

so in essence a 22AWG mono price, swest kindly gave use description below,

3571
Standard Speed HDMI Silver-Plated Copper CL2 Rated
(For In-Wall Installation) Cable (22AWG) - 35ft
(Gold Plated Connectors)
$66.41

as a note he says though described as standard speed it infact is marked on the web site as high speed.... 

and a couple of pictures










and 










swest also quotes the 35ft mono price cabernet,
https://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506

note as swest found the first one he had didnt work, similarly with dave vaughns report its believe there was a bad batch of these (or was it with an older chip ?) so make sure if you do get it buy from someone can return to if find it doesnt work.

infact I'd encourage if indeed buying a cable you do indeed buy from someone with a good return / exchange policy 

I do hope others will post their successes with other cables, so wiht the take up of uhd blu-ray this becomes as painless as possible with people not struggling with even the first step of getting signal to their display/projector 

perhaps if posting here people can list a few things if sharing their experience ,

brand and details of cable, cable length
equipment combination, player, avr/av processor, display/projector.

note this thread is really for uhd blu-ray and not htpcs or any other wierdo image formats and such.



latest testing ... round 2 from David Vaughn - Courtesy of Sound and Vision magazine,
http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#goOHOeY1Pjeqy3KP.97

good to see some cheap options there ! that do indeed pass in the long cable category, and also the ones that dont !


its a new year and an update is required...

with the oppo 203 landing on us... I ofcourse like a blind fool decided to get one... ah to my suprise first thing I find is the oppo main menu their engineers in their infinite wisdom have decided to push through at a whisker under hdmi max bandwidth ....of gee you'd think this would have been something they learnt from samsungs debacle...

anyways so now I go from a samsung that works seamlessly to an oppo where I cant even get the menu up.

a week after ownership with some help from forum buddies find a solution i.e. everything on auto with oppo and only change is color space to 4:2:0 which is same format for disc and it works seamlessly across formats(dvd, blu-ray and UHD blu-ray) so all good with my current cable the kordz prs linked to earlier in this thread.

however,

I noted JAV was using a 10m hdmi cable and having luck across both the pana, sammy and pc for 4k so happened to ask what it was ?

turned out a cable from office works of all places ! 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/...-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

 given their return policy I thought id give it a go. 

so came home temporarily ran the cable between the marantz and the jvc. did a full reset of the oppo back to factory settings and gave things a go. well i'll be damned we have an affordable cable that will pass the oppo main menu and with out of box settings. now while i have had the player working pretty seamlessly wiht everything in auto and color space at 4:2:0 with my current cable, with my dual screens the factory settings i.e. full auto on the oppo seem a bit more seamless... anyways something will monitor...

But I should report this comsol 10m cable, described as per below does indeed work for uhd blu-ray,

"This Comsol High Speed HDMI Cable is a great option for anyone who is setting up a Blu-ray, set top box, computer and more. The cable will support 4K Ultra HD with a resolution up to 3840 x 2160.
This cable has male HDMI plugs on both ends.
The cable is 10 m long which lets you set your devices far apart from each other.
The connectors are covered in 24k gold and resist corrosion.
It will support 4K Ultra HD televisions.
The cable has a bandwidth speed of up to 18Gbps.
It contains a high grade oxygen-free 24AWG copper wire.
The cable has 32 channel digital audio which is perfect for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio."


__
https://flic.kr/p/32100896816
​

__
https://flic.kr/p/31990941292
​
down sides .. like many 24awg cables this comsol cable is thick and heavy and not so flexible as say the kordz prs linked in the opening post - which with being an active cable gets away with much more slender and flexible cable and dainty plugs 

as a note oppo have thankfully in their latest beta firmware also provided a couple of other video output settings in "UHD24" that does indeed now make sure that the main menu doesnt come through in max hdmi bandwidth.

which will make things all the more easier for people trying to pass uhd blu-ray over long cables (i.e. over 7m where premium certified cables at this point do not exist)


Arrow AV has been very busy with some rigorous testing and below is Part 1 of the report outlining the results ....

TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...operly-reliably-support-18gbps-hdmi-2-0b.html


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Thanks for your research and table reporting your findings. 

Also, thanks for the Vaughn article which states: "My testing highlights the worst case/most-demanding scenario for HDMI bandwidth with signals of 3840/2160P YCrCb 4:4:4 60Hz—which we really won’t see in commercially produced material for years to come, so I wouldn’t panic just yet."

Many of us have been trying to guess the right point and time to upgrade our systems.

I have been thinking I should be considering an 18 gig capable whole house system when I should be trying to build a 10 gig system which may be the best possible HDMI solution for years. This is the first article I have read the clearly state UHD premium is long range goal, (unless a HDBaseT solution or something else becomes available and it is an issue of a more capable matrix switch).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Folks are starting to make some positive reports about Celerity Fiber cables and trying to push that magical 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over a distance. That may be another option is one is installing conduit for future cable runs/needs. A tad expensive but may be worth it in the long run.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> ... but may be worth it in the long run.


 No pun intended I'm sure. :grin:


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> No pun intended I'm sure. :grin:


I just can't get anything past you


----------



## Dave Vaughn

The original Monoprice cable I tested didn't work and I sent it back to Monoprice a few weeks ago. They sent me a new cable that supposedly has the new chip in it and guess what...it still doesn't work! I tested it yesterday and it would not pass a 4K signal...all I got was a blue screen on my JVC projector. Time to return it back to Monoprice. 

I plan on doing a round 2 of testing, but I need to just find the time to contact manufacturers for samples to try out. Many were reluctant the first time around because I think they suspected that their cables wouldn't pass the test.


----------



## alebonau

Postmoderndesign said:


> Thanks for your research and table reporting your findings.
> 
> Also, thanks for the Vaughn article which states: "My testing highlights the worst case/most-demanding scenario for HDMI bandwidth with signals of 3840/2160P YCrCb 4:4:4 60Hz—which we really won’t see in commercially produced material for years to come, so I wouldn’t panic just yet."
> 
> Many of us have been trying to guess the right point and time to upgrade our systems.
> 
> I have been thinking I should be considering an 18 gig capable whole house system when I should be trying to build a 10 gig system which may be the best possible HDMI solution for years. This is the first article I have read the clearly state UHD premium is long range goal, (unless a HDBaseT solution or something else becomes available and it is an issue of a more capable matrix switch).


he pmd, not sure id be wiring the whole house yet. and thats without going down other burrows. my old generic 10m hdmi cable I suppose did serve me well for all those years had it, probably likely my current hdmi for uhd blu-ray will serve well too for quite a while ... lets see 



Dave Vaughn said:


> The original Monoprice cable I tested didn't work and I sent it back to Monoprice a few weeks ago. They sent me a new cable that supposedly has the new chip in it and guess what...it still doesn't work! I tested it yesterday and it would not pass a 4K signal...all I got was a blue screen on my JVC projector. Time to return it back to Monoprice.
> 
> I plan on doing a round 2 of testing, but I need to just find the time to contact manufacturers for samples to try out. Many were reluctant the first time around because I think they suspected that their cables wouldn't pass the test.


thankyou Dave, i can tell you your original article sure brought to light the situation for many, atlas provided one solution that worked ! 

gee mono price ... you'd think they'd test before sending ... anyways they might have done to get your feedback too...hope they get there ! 

I for one and am sure many will very much appreciate if you did do another run of this cable comparison for uhd blu-ray. its a whole new world and suspect many many probably just stuck on the starting blocks with this one....

looking forward to what all the makers have at cedia as well, perhaps more to the market at that point


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Actually I just put in five two inch conduits and one 3/4 inch conduit for coax from the antenna. I am planning on running 3 shielded BlacK Box Cat6a cables and two quad shielded RG6 and speaker wire from the utility room network cabinet to the bedrooms and great room. My house was wired with POTS, telephone service in 1981. Google fiber will be available soon and I decided to go with gigabit internet. I needed to update. As long as I was rewiring for gigabit for a couple hundred more I could prepare for 10 gigabit plus continue OTA with coax throughout the house. If HDMI turns out to be a good solution I can pull HDMI cable later. If HDBaseT works I can go that way. However, I needed to remodel, the walls were open and wiring the house is a couple percent of the total cost of the job. I made my best guess and now I am impatient for UHD premium to develop.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ excellent plan. Well planned conduits, with pull strings if you need them, are the only way to "future proof" your wiring needs. Cabling needs will be changing, sooner than later, but with the conduits it's easier to keep up with the inevitable changes.


----------



## kingchobo

Curious to see if you have the ability to test a monster black platinum cable


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I did test those...they didn't work for me or Ralph Potts, but they did for another member with the same equipment, so it may be the luck of the draw.


----------



## nonstopdoc1

Dave Vaughn said:


> The original Monoprice cable I tested didn't work and I sent it back to Monoprice a few weeks ago. They sent me a new cable that supposedly has the new chip in it and guess what...it still doesn't work! I tested it yesterday and it would not pass a 4K signal...all I got was a blue screen on my JVC projector. Time to return it back to Monoprice.
> 
> I plan on doing a round 2 of testing, but I need to just find the time to contact manufacturers for samples to try out. Many were reluctant the first time around because I think they suspected that their cables wouldn't pass the test.


How do you test a HDMI cable? Is it as simple as playing a UHD BD and see if display shows picture and audio works or is their some specific test that needs to be run. I have ordered a 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice and I want to test it before running it through the wall. I have UBD-K8500 BD player and I am expecting my LG OLED to arrive by the endd of this week.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Test the menu of the Samsung, play some YouTube videos that the player outputs at 60Hz (The Costa Rica 4K video is a good one to use), and then put a movie in. Some will play the movie, but fail on the menus and YouTube. You really want it to work on all three to be of use.


----------



## alebonau

nonstopdoc1 said:


> How do you test a HDMI cable? Is it as simple as playing a UHD BD and see if display shows picture and audio works or is their some specific test that needs to be run. I have ordered a 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice and I want to test it before running it through the wall. I have UBD-K8500 BD player and I am expecting my LG OLED to arrive by the endd of this week.


for myself and to have a sense of confidence - for a week, when I got the new cable, I never ran the cable through walls and under the house after running about 6 uhd blu-rays through it. just checked with firing up he sammy and loading a disc to play. with my old generic hdmi cable, the sammy menu was even a struggle. and then if you managed to load a disc it would go to no signal. thats it….

with the new cable… it all just works… have run about 14 uhd blu-rays through so far. 

re youtube and such of course give that a go to if important to you and as suggested above


----------



## nonstopdoc1

I can confirm that 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice works perfectly and supports ARC, 4K60P and HDR. I have 3 of them in my setup (AVR, Nvidia Shield and Samsung UHD BD Player)


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ congratulations! You're one of the lucky ones. Others have not had luck with the Cabernet series. Kinda reminds me of the panel lottery with some tv mfrs. You never really know if you're going to get the panel you want or one that you don't.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

nonstopdoc1 said:


> I can confirm that 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice works perfectly and supports ARC, 4K60P and HDR. I have 3 of them in my setup (AVR, Nvidia Shield and Samsung UHD BD Player)


I've had no luck with two of them, Ralph Potts no luck with Lux brand (same as Cabernet).


----------



## nonstopdoc1

Dave Vaughn said:


> I've had no luck with two of them, Ralph Potts no luck with Lux brand (same as Cabernet).


What didn't work if I may ask and when did you buy the cable? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I had one bought the last week of December and that didn't work between the Samsung UHD player and my projector (both excluding and including my Marantz AV8802 pre/pro). I then returned it and they sent me a new one in April that they guaranteed would work...nope. Blank screen. 

I'm a big fan of Monoprice, but their Q/C on these cables is suspect, which is why they are the price that they are. I bet if you ordered 10 cables, I suspect maybe half would work, so it's the luck of the draw.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Does Monoprice actually QC all of the cables they sell or are they just reselling cables mfr'd and qc'd by someone else? I didn't think they had actual mfr facilities for some, if not most of the items they sell.


----------



## G-Rex

@alebonau, I have contacted Kordz by email asking for a list US dealers and never got a response. Are you located in the US? If so could you let me know where you purchased them from? I am thinking of going with the Kordz Lux cable with the Ethereal Gigbit Accelerator.


----------



## alebonau

G-Rex said:


> @alebonau, I have contacted Kordz by email asking for a list US dealers and never got a response. Are you located in the US? If so could you let me know where you purchased them from? I am thinking of going with the Kordz Lux cable with the Ethereal Gigbit Accelerator.


hi @G-Rex am not in the US sorry, in australia  where kordz originates...infact their head office is just down the road and have about half a dozen retailers in shopping centres around me. they are a long established brand name with old product here so can understand me turning to them as first port of call when found my 10m / 35ft generic cable was absolutely no go. I just rang their phone number and spoke to their technical guy who pointed me straight to the kordz PRS and guaranteed it for uhd-blu-ray.

Have no idea what their representation is in the us,

a quick google finds this crowd, no idea about them to be honest...

https://futurereadysolutions.com/pr...-active-fixed-installation-hdmi-cable-series/

if wanting to get in touch with them or kordz themselves probably best to just as i did and give them a call 

otherwise there are likely other local options for you and why created this thread,


----------



## G-Rex

Thanks alebonau. I will check out the link and perhaps give them a call. Kordz looks like a very well built cable. The Lux reminds me of Wire World.


----------



## alebonau

G-Rex said:


> Thanks alebonau. I will check out the link and perhaps give them a call. Kordz looks like a very well built cable. The Lux reminds me of Wire World.


hi G-Rex they do make a well built cable. for instance you will see in one of the specs
Retention Force (nominal) 29.7N (3kg / 6.6lbs) +10/-5%

this is intentional and if get these you will see they are a good interference fit into HDMI sockets and do indeed need a bit of force to pull out... as opposed to the cheapy cost saving hdmi cables where the seven make the plugs undersize and scamp on the pennies to the point people find their cables falling out  and there is then talk of retaining clips and what not other solution....wont need all that with the kordz ! 

ps have no idea about the Lux you mention, its not a cable they highlighted to me when talking to hitter technical guy, just directly pointed to the PRS when asked them for something suitable for uhd blu-ray but something you can talk over with them when get in touch


----------



## aaranddeeman

nonstopdoc1 said:


> I can confirm that 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice works perfectly and supports ARC, 4K60P and HDR. I have 3 of them in my setup (AVR, Nvidia Shield and Samsung UHD BD Player)


I just bought one, but don't have 4K equipment to test it. Wondering if I should put it through ceiling run now or wait.


----------



## alebonau

aaranddeeman said:


> I just bought one, but don't have 4K equipment to test it. Wondering if I should put it through ceiling run now or wait.


WAIT !  run with a uhd blu-ray source....

run it for a week or two chuck everything you can at it... and if happy then run through ceiling and such. what I did.

if the thing is bung for some reason lot easier to return/swap a cable thats just been tried than one thats gone through ceilings and such


----------



## aaranddeeman

The new epson 4K enhancement projectors are offering wireless solution. Not sure if that can handle the needed bandwidth. If it does, that will be the cash cow.


----------



## alebonau

aaranddeeman said:


> The new epson 4K enhancement projectors are offering wireless solution. Not sure if that can handle the needed bandwidth. If it does, that will be the cash cow.


the wireless they offered for 3D when i owned an epson, was very good. a tad slow and could hick up get caught out. but served while i waited for my av processor to get its 3D update... once that was done couldnt wait to get back to using my cable.

definitely will be seen as a handy option for many i suspect, though time will tell how good how effective  personally id rather hard wired cable and pleased found something that works in my setup


----------



## aaranddeeman

alebonau said:


> WAIT !  run with a uhd blu-ray source....
> 
> run it for a week or two chuck everything you can at it... and if happy then run through ceiling and such. what I did.
> 
> if the thing is bung for some reason lot easier to return/swap a cable thats just been tried than one thats gone through ceilings and such


Agreed. That's what I am thinking too.
Only that the cable has to sit in the closet till I have the 4K equipment.


----------



## davisnub

would you say that 30 feet is the wall that cords have? is everything consistent at distances of 30 feet and less?


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> would you say that 30 feet is the wall that cords have? is everything consistent at distances of 30 feet and less?


I'm running 35ft 10m ... thru the "wall" 

its 7m or 20ft i believe past which cable choice becomes critical... that said i really only believe its in very short lengths 1-2m or less that any ole sh!te appears to work. its not just a cable but equipment combination thing which makes hard and fast statements difficult


----------



## davisnub

alebonau said:


> I'm running 35ft 10m ... thru the "wall"
> 
> its 7m or 20ft i believe past which cable choice becomes critical... that said i really only believe its in very short lengths 1-2m or less that any ole sh!te appears to work. its not just a cable but equipment combination thing which makes hard and fast statements difficult


what irks me is that I can manipulate the system sometimes to play 4K HDR through my setup. My chain is as follows:

Samsung br>Marantz 7702mk2>JVC RS500 I've even removed the marantz out of the chain for comparison and it didn't seem to make a difference. It's strange that it works sometimes but requires lots of adjustments between inputs and disconnecting and reconnecting cables.


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> what irks me is that I can manipulate the system sometimes to play 4K HDR through my setup. My chain is as follows:
> 
> Samsung br>Marantz 7702mk2>JVC RS500 I've even removed the marantz out of the chain for comparison and it didn't seem to make a difference. It's strange that it works sometimes but requires lots of adjustments between inputs and disconnecting and reconnecting cables.


being marantz 7702mk2 and the equipment combination should be no issue. am not having any issue here with just the 8802 as different to what you are running. what cable is it you are running ? as that would appear to be the only variable in the mix ? maybe worth trying something else ?


----------



## davisnub

alebonau said:


> being marantz 7702mk2 and the equipment combination should be no issue. am not having any issue here with just the 8802 as different to what you are running. what cable is it you are running ? as that would appear to be the only variable in the mix ? maybe worth trying something else ?


I just contacted monoprice (I'm running the luxe series 35ft cable) because it's the weekend. What baffles me is that it will do 4K HDR but it's quite a process:

1. Have hdmi cord plugged into hdmi 2 on jvc. 
2. make sure input is edid b
3. this shows the main menu of the sammy bluray at 1080p
4. begin movie
5. enable edid a. disconnect hdmi cable

at this point, it will show the movie at 4k with hdr. sometimes it will be without hdr. 

I'm also seeing if I can acquire the phillips uhd player and see if i get better results


----------



## Dave Vaughn

It's the cable. Return it.


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> I just contacted monoprice (I'm running the luxe series 35ft cable) because it's the weekend. What baffles me is that it will do 4K HDR but it's quite a process:
> 
> 1. Have hdmi cord plugged into hdmi 2 on jvc.
> 2. make sure input is edid b
> 3. this shows the main menu of the sammy bluray at 1080p
> 4. begin movie
> 5. enable edid a. disconnect hdmi cable
> 
> at this point, it will show the movie at 4k with hdr. sometimes it will be without hdr.
> 
> I'm also seeing if I can acquire the phillips uhd player and see if i get better results


honestly you should be getting all this stage ! as per dave....just return it...


----------



## davisnub

Dave Vaughn said:


> It's the cable. Return it.


dave, 

i just noticed you live fairly close (i work in the wine industry)! anyways, any particular cord that you'd recommend? I'll probably contact monoprice for a replacement but maybe the cabernet series would work better?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

davisnub said:


> dave,
> 
> i just noticed you live fairly close (i work in the wine industry)! anyways, any particular cord that you'd recommend? I'll probably contact monoprice for a replacement but maybe the cabernet series would work better?


Cabernet didn't work for me...tried 2 of them. I'm currently using an Audioquest Forest, 8 meter cable. It was the cheapest I could find that actually worked.


----------



## davisnub

Dave Vaughn said:


> Cabernet didn't work for me...tried 2 of them. I'm currently using an Audioquest Forest, 8 meter cable. It was the cheapest I could find that actually worked.


dang, I'm looking for 30 feet. I'm hoping that the phillips uhd player will do better than the samsung :crosses fingers:


----------



## Otto Pylot

Some folks are having luck with Celerity fiber optic cables. An expensive option though.


----------



## Rengozu

Dave Vaughn said:


> Cabernet didn't work for me...tried 2 of them. I'm currently using an Audioquest Forest, 8 meter cable. It was the cheapest I could find that actually worked.


Haven't got to hook them up to test yet, but I also just went with the Audioquest Forest (26ft) but I did grab a Cabernet as a backup just to run another option at the same time. Hopefully that works out for me. Never realized when putting all this together that the HDMI cord would end up being one of the biggest headaches.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rengozu said:


> Never realized when putting all this together that the HDMI cord would end up being one of the biggest headaches.


The higher video standards far-outpaced the connection technology and the consumer is paying the price for that. No mfr wants to sell a 4k/UHD panel knowing that the current reliable HDMI connection distance is around 20' for most setups.


----------



## alebonau

Rengozu said:


> Haven't got to hook them up to test yet, but I also just went with the Audioquest Forest (26ft) but I did grab a Cabernet as a backup just to run another option at the same time. Hopefully that works out for me. Never realized when putting all this together that the HDMI cord would end up being one of the biggest headaches.


wish you all the luck 



Otto Pylot said:


> The higher video standards far-outpaced the connection technology and the consumer is paying the price for that. No mfr wants to sell a 4k/UHD panel knowing that the current reliable HDMI connection distance is around 20' for most setups.


no problem here at 10m/ 35ft


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> no problem here at 10m/ 35ft


.... and you are definitely in the minority. Congratulations. I wish all who posted were as lucky as you.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> .... and you are definitely in the minority. Congratulations. I wish all who posted were as lucky as you.


there is nothing about luck involved sorry 
just matter of using something that works. and what use does.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> there is nothing about luck involved sorry
> just matter of using something that works. and what use does.


I think there are others who would disagree on the luck part  At least you are up and running trouble-free, and that's all that matters.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> I think there are others who would disagree on the luck part  At least you are up and running trouble-free, and that's all that matters.


as an engineer by profession...not to do with cables....but I dont think good design has anything to do with luck. its rather more a case of being fit for purpose. which seems to be the case here I think.

but yes am happy things are working and seamlessly, would be driving me up the wall otherwise. I remember what was when ws like trying to get going wiht my generic cable !


----------



## davisnub

If I can't get a cable that works with 4K HDR, I will probably just run 4K out of my HTPC with madVR and just wait. Hopefully by the time the OPPO UHD player comes out, they'll have a cable that can push 18gbps with no issues at 35 feet


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> If I can't get a cable that works with 4K HDR, I will probably just run 4K out of my HTPC with madVR and just wait. Hopefully by the time the OPPO UHD player comes out, they'll have a cable that can push 18gbps with no issues at 35 feet


but there are cables that are working for uhd blu-ray at 35 feet  and dont HAVE to wait for the oppo...unless thats what particularly want to do !


----------



## davisnub

alebonau said:


> but there are cables that are working for uhd blu-ray at 35 feet  and dont HAVE to wait for the oppo...unless thats what particularly want to do !


yeah but they aren't consistent from one consumer/setup to another. what were some specific cables that you recommended that has worked for all parties that have them just wondering?


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> yeah but they aren't consistent from one consumer/setup to another. what were some specific cables that you recommended that has worked for all parties that have them just wondering?


well mine is consistent for my equipment combination, jvc, marantz sammy for uhd blu-ray. have you tried this to say it doesnt work ? - I've already stated what am using without issue in the opening post, no need to repeat.

I know one other personally atleast using that combination and isn't having a problem.

have you tried any of the known combinations to say they dont work ? (see opening post - no need to repeat)

for uhd blu-ray there are solutions that work. if doing htpc cant comment as can run all sorts of weirdo outputs that way which can cause issues. but uhd blu-ray dont have to keep pulling hair out... I only did that for one week  till found something that works


----------



## davisnub

alebonau said:


> well mine is consistent for my equipment combination, jvc, marantz sammy for uhd blu-ray. have you tried this to say it doesnt work ? - I've already stated what am using without issue in the opening post, no need to repeat.
> 
> I know one other personally atleast using that combination and isn't having a problem.
> 
> have you tried any of the known combinations to say they dont work ? (see opening post - no need to repeat)
> 
> for uhd blu-ray there are solutions that work. if doing htpc cant comment as can run all sorts of weirdo outputs that way which can cause issues. but uhd blu-ray dont have to keep pulling hair out... I only did that for one week  till found something that works


the cables you referenced in your first post are either not provided in the US or outrageously expensive (I would need a 35ft cable).


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ he's an engineer, so apparently he knows what to look for (according to him ), and he's willing to pay what ever the cost is. On this side of the pond it's not that easy. And to pay the high cost that some of the cable mfrs are asking for is ridiculous.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

The high costs of cables has to do with their build quality and the ability to work from cable to cable. I'm a big fan of Monoprice, but I know of 4 30 and 35 ft Cabernet and Luxe cables that have all failed to work. Some may work for others, but it's the luck of the draw.


----------



## ereed

I have heard from others that its the Sammy player that is causing the issue rather than the cable. Perhaps someone has panny 900 to use as player to test with monoprice and others to be 100% sure. So what cable works so far? Blue Jeans? Audio Quest? Even monster advertises it will pass 8K.....look at their advertisement at best buy. LOL (but I seriously doubt it)


----------



## alebonau

davisnub said:


> the cables you referenced in your first post are either not provided in the US or outrageously expensive (I would need a 35ft cable).


I did point to a retailer in the us selling the cable I am using  ? if you think the pricey cables are outrageously priced in the us ... try buying them where I am  that said am pretty sure in my opening post there is a reference to a relatively affordable cable you should be able to try to see if works. I dont think I can even buy that cable locally here !


----------



## alebonau

Dave Vaughn said:


> The high costs of cables has to do with their build quality and the ability to work from cable to cable. I'm a big fan of Monoprice, but I know of 4 30 and 35 ft Cabernet and Luxe cables that have all failed to work. Some may work for others, but it's the luck of the draw.


mono price sure seems to have some QC issues, I myself out the way here would be pretty reluctant buying as he shipping cost back to them all the way back would be a killer. I wonder why they keep telling you they work when they dont ? must be embarrassing for them surely ? are they doing anything to rectify the issue ? as would sure be a good option for people if did indeed work as they say it should 



ereed said:


> I have heard from others that its the Sammy player that is causing the issue rather than the cable. Perhaps someone has panny 900 to use as player to test with monoprice and others to be 100% sure. So what cable works so far? Blue Jeans? Audio Quest? Even monster advertises it will pass 8K.....look at their advertisement at best buy. LOL (but I seriously doubt it)


my kordz PRS does work as well at my length(35ft 10m) for uhd blu-ray. there is pricey to affordable with some feedback in the opening post 

my best suggestion is buy from retailer with a good return policy if unsure. no need for you to pay the price for something of theirs not working as claimed !


----------



## SimpleTheater

ereed said:


> I have heard from others that its the Sammy player that is causing the issue rather than the cable. Perhaps someone has panny 900 to use as player to test with monoprice and others to be 100% sure. So what cable works so far? Blue Jeans? Audio Quest? Even monster advertises it will pass 8K.....look at their advertisement at best buy. LOL (but I seriously doubt it)


Until someone can verify the voltage output from the Samsung HDMI port, we may not know if it is the player or the cable. The better cables that work may simply drop less voltage over the long runs, but that doesn't mean the Monoprice cables don't meet spec.

Can the Amazon Fire 2 box pass UHD 4K 10 bit? I have one, just got my Yamaha 3060 and got Monoprice Cabernet 45' cables yesterday, so I could try it out today.


----------



## alebonau

SimpleTheater said:


> Until someone can verify the voltage output from the Samsung HDMI port, we may not know if it is the player or the cable. The better cables that work may simply drop less voltage over the long runs, but that doesn't mean the Monoprice cables don't meet spec.
> 
> Can the Amazon Fire 2 box pass UHD 4K 10 bit? I have one, just got my Yamaha 3060 and got Monoprice Cabernet 45' cables yesterday, so I could try it out today.


wow 45 ft, thats the longest I've read of anyones cable run, be interesting to see how you go 

ps i cant imagine the samsung not meeting spec...they are a major oem, and doubt would have got hdmi certification otherwise


----------



## G-Rex

There will be a copper HDMI (non-optical) option coming in September/October that will pass 18 gbps in lengths over 20 meters. Not sure I have permission to disclose the details just yet, so I better not.

Of note, it is not a Monoprice/Redmere technology.


----------



## ereed

G-Rex said:


> There will be a copper HDMI (non-optical) option coming in September/October that will pass 18 gbps in lengths over 20 meters. Not sure I have permission to disclose the details just yet, so I better not.
> 
> Of note, it is not a Monoprice/Redmere technology.


Can you at least disclose the price or thickness/flexibility of the cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> Some may work for others, but it's the luck of the draw.


My point exactly. Cable build descriptions can sound really good but going by them alone, and to be honest that's really all one has to go on, can be deceptive and misleading. Consumers want guarantees and there just aren't any at the long distances. I wish we had never been stuck with HDMI but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> There will be a copper HDMI (non-optical) option coming in September/October that will pass 18 gbps in lengths over 20 meters. Not sure I have permission to disclose the details just yet, so I better not.
> 
> Of note, it is not a Monoprice/Redmere technology.


We're going to hold you to that!


----------



## SimpleTheater

SimpleTheater said:


> Can the Amazon Fire 2 box pass UHD 4K 10 bit? I have one, just got my Yamaha 3060 and got Monoprice Cabernet 45' cables yesterday, so I could try it out today.


Having some issues with the Fire. It's only passing 1080p with Prime content. Using the Fire w/YouTube, it is passing 4K, but I have my old HDMI 1.4 cable hooked up. My JVC is happy with the 4K @ 30 . Until I am sure the Fire is working properly, I can't properly test my cables.

I may pick up the Sammy 4K player tonight when I run the new cable.


----------



## SimpleTheater

alebonau said:


> ps i cant imagine the samsung not meeting spec...they are a major oem, and doubt would have got hdmi certification otherwise


After reading this article, almost anything is possible. 

"[The problem] was the output HDMI processor (chip) producing incorrect TMDS voltage thresholds"
http://www.cepro.com/article/hdmi_corner_overcome_the_blame_game_to_troubleshoot_problems#


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> We're going to hold you to that!


Sure thing!  Spoke directly with the engineer at length. The cable is presently at DPL labs for certification and will be unveiled at CEDIA in September. I will be buying this cable...


----------



## G-Rex

ereed said:


> Can you at least disclose the price or thickness/flexibility of the cable?


I believe he said 24 gauge. It has a flexible design and will not stress HDMI inputs/outputs as I specifically asked about this. I was not given a price, but it will be more $$ than Monoprice HDMI cables, but below the price of some of the AudioQuest HDMI cables. It is not a boutique type cable.


----------



## davisnub

G-Rex said:


> There will be a copper HDMI (non-optical) option coming in September/October that will pass 18 gbps in lengths over 20 meters. Not sure I have permission to disclose the details just yet, so I better not.
> 
> Of note, it is not a Monoprice/Redmere technology.


at this point, I think I'll wait for that AND the oppo player. For those that are speculating about the samsung player. I received the phillips player and compared its performance against the samsung using the same luxe 35ft cable. Both have issues going into the menu under 4k @ 4:4:4. However, the phillips can immediately play a disc at 4K HDR once it's loaded. The samsung still required some manipulation to get the movie going even after skipping the main menu.


----------



## Otto Pylot

24AWG makes sense. DPL is one of the two cable mfrs that have a rather vigorous testing/certification program, much like BJC, even tho I believe BJC uses an ATC for certification which is fine (they follow HDMI Licensing specifications for certification). Things are looking up, finally. AudioQuest is like Monster in that they are way overpriced for what you get, regardless of what their slick marketing/packaging says.


----------



## G-Rex

Just so you all know, though this new passive cable will allow 18 gbps at lengths greater than 20 meters, there is a bit more to it/another requirement. Will update with more info when able.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> 24AWG makes sense. DPL is one of the two cable mfrs that have a rather vigorous testing/certification program, much like BJC, even tho I believe BJC uses an ATC for certification which is fine (they follow HDMI Licensing specifications for certification). Things are looking up, finally. AudioQuest is like Monster in that they are way overpriced for what you get, regardless of what their slick marketing/packaging says.


I do like the AQ Carbon HDMI cable, but this new cable has caused me to hold off ordering it.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

SimpleTheater said:


> After reading this article, almost anything is possible.
> 
> "[The problem] was the output HDMI processor (chip) producing incorrect TMDS voltage thresholds"
> http://www.cepro.com/article/hdmi_corner_overcome_the_blame_game_to_troubleshoot_problems#


Great article.


----------



## ereed

G-Rex said:


> I believe he said 24 gauge. It has a flexible design and will not stress HDMI inputs/outputs as I specifically asked about this. I was not given a price, but it will be more $$ than Monoprice HDMI cables, but below the price of some of the AudioQuest HDMI cables. It is not a boutique type cable.


As long as it works I don't care if its plain looking! It still amazes me people buy best looking cable when they don't even see it when its hooked up behind the equipment. Funny how they think better looking = better quality and that is how people get ripped off!


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Just so you all know, though this new passive cable will allow 18 gbps at lengths greater than 20 meters, there is a bit more to it/another requirement. Will update with more info when able.


18Gbps sustained at 60' on a passive cable, with bends? Hmm, we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> 18Gbps sustained at 60' on a passive cable, with bends? Hmm, we'll just have to wait and see.


I want to be a bit more clear here. To get 18 gbps at 20 meters + you will need to use this soon to be announced passive cable, but another tech must be used along with it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yeah, an active extender. I got it.


----------



## aaranddeeman

G-Rex said:


> I want to be a bit more clear here. To get 18 gbps at 20 meters + you will need to use this soon to be announced passive cable, but another tech must be used along with it.


I can only image an 12" diameter conduit to run that cable thru.


----------



## Hiredgoon

I got cheap kenable cables off of amazon, 25 feet. 

So far they worked well with Xbox One S, Deadpool HDR enabled.


----------



## alebonau

Hiredgoon said:


> I got cheap kenable cables off of amazon, 25 feet.
> 
> So far they worked well with Xbox One S, Deadpool HDR enabled.


Good to hear however please do post what other gear is in chain. So apart from the x box oneS is there AV avr ... What is it ... and what display/projector 
This is important to know as often it is s combination of gear that works ... Other combinations might not ...


----------



## Rengozu

alebonau said:


> wish you all the luck
> 
> 
> 
> no problem here at 10m/ 35ft



Well, had the 8m Audioquest Forest HDMI and checked them out with a couple movies before running them through the wall and all seemed to be good. So then I ran them through the pipe and was heartbroken to see I was short about 4 inches. The way everything is all mounted there's not so much room to work with.

So I went back to the local store to talk possible solutions and he pulled out a discontinued 10m Audioquest Forest from the back that they didn't even have on display. I'd never seen online, but the box still had all the same high-speed labels like the 8m did, and I was pretty excited to see since once you get to the 12m Forest, the box specifications label it as Standard speed. 

Got it all hooked up, but now I randomly get video signal losses. Audio plays through fine but the picture can go out about 10-15 seconds at a time from the projector. Never consistent either. Can watch a complete movie flawlessly, or might get one that drops the signal 2-5 times. Maybe that's why they don't make that size anymore? And I can turn down the resolution to 1080p and can't make it happen, but that kinda defeats the purpose. No fun.



Samsung 4k -> Marantz 8802a -> JVC RS600


----------



## alebonau

Rengozu said:


> Well, had the 8m Audioquest Forest HDMI and checked them out with a couple movies before running them through the wall and all seemed to be good. So then I ran them through the pipe and was heartbroken to see I was short about 4 inches. The way everything is all mounted there's not so much room to work with.
> 
> So I went back to the local store to talk possible solutions and he pulled out a discontinued 10m Audioquest Forest from the back that they didn't even have on display. I'd never seen online, but the box still had all the same high-speed labels like the 8m did, and I was pretty excited to see since once you get to the 12m Forest, the box specifications label it as Standard speed.
> 
> Got it all hooked up, but now I randomly get video signal losses. Audio plays through fine but the picture can go out about 10-15 seconds at a time from the projector. Never consistent either. Can watch a complete movie flawlessly, or might get one that drops the signal 2-5 times. Maybe that's why they don't make that size anymore? And I can turn down the resolution to 1080p and can't make it happen, but that kinda defeats the purpose. No fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung 4k -> Marantz 8802a -> JVC RS600


what a bummer, seems like 8m is the limit for uhd blu-ray and the audio quest forest...


----------



## Otto Pylot

8m (24'). Seems like the 20' limit is the problem, again, at least for this setup.


----------



## SimpleTheater

So I ordered the *Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 45ft* and hooked it up about a week ago from the AVR to the Projector. I got the Philips 4k bluray player and after having some setup issues, got it setup for 4k 4:4:4 output. I'm using a 6 ft Cabernet Ultra from the Philips to the Yamaha AVR. The JVC is reporting that it is getting 4k @ 8 bit color depth when playing Netflix. Playing Creed (UHD BluRay) it is not reporting color depth (just blank).

Not seeing anything in 10 bit, but I'm not sure I have any material in 10 bit to check.


----------



## alebonau

SimpleTheater said:


> So I ordered the *Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 45ft* and hooked it up about a week ago from the AVR to the Projector. I got the Philips 4k bluray player and after having some setup issues, got it setup for 4k 4:4:4 output. I'm using a 6 ft Cabernet Ultra from the Philips to the Yamaha AVR. The JVC is reporting that it is getting 4k @ 8 bit color depth when playing Netflix. Playing Creed (UHD BluRay) it is not reporting color depth (just blank).
> 
> Not seeing anything in 10 bit, but I'm not sure I have any material in 10 bit to check.


I'd say thats good news ! 

not sure on the phillips/yamaha feeding the jvc,

but with sammy and marantz feeding the jvc X7000 below is what I get on the jvc info screens 

the jvc info screen showing format the sammy splash screen comes through at,








 
the jvc info screen showing format a UHD blu-ray comes through at,


----------



## g.j.martin

Just got an OLED65B6P and running connection to xbox 1 s followed by a DirecTV also

Are these AudioQuest cables worth it? I have an old Forest Audio Quest but its too short (6ft) I paid about 50 or 60.00 with a price match a while back, I notice they are 80-100+ now. I need HDMI 2.0a as far as I know at about 12-15 ft. Is 2.0 the same as 2.0a?


----------



## alebonau

g.j.martin said:


> Just got an OLED65B6P and running connection to xbox 1 s followed by a DirecTV also
> 
> Are these AudioQuest cables worth it? I have an old Forest Audio Quest but its too short (6ft) I paid about 50 or 60.00 with a price match a while back, I notice they are 80-100+ now. I need HDMI 2.0a as far as I know at about 12-15 ft. Is 2.0 the same as 2.0a?


cables dont have a hdmi version number sorry. the version numbers refer to equipment and capability.

am not really sure cables in the 12 ft range are going to be a real bother. some makers are going wiht premium high speed certification e.g. mono price have a cable that should have you covered, 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15430

in anycase Iwould suggest with hdmi cables always buy from a retailer that allows returns if doesnt meet up to requirement.


----------



## aaranddeeman

SimpleTheater said:


> So I ordered the *Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 45ft* and hooked it up about a week ago from the AVR to the Projector. I got the Philips 4k bluray player and after having some setup issues, got it setup for 4k 4:4:4 output. *I'm using a 6 ft Cabernet Ultra from the Philips to the Yamaha AVR*. The JVC is reporting that it is getting 4k @ 8 bit color depth when playing Netflix. Playing Creed (UHD BluRay) it is not reporting color depth (just blank).
> 
> Not seeing anything in 10 bit, but I'm not sure I have any material in 10 bit to check.


This is pointless. You do not need active cable for 6 feet length. OTOH, it may actually become a problem.
Use a passive cable, preferably.


----------



## ereed

Monoprice has new cable that says it can do 330 feet for 4K at 60hz. This cable seems to have optical fiber instead of copper wire. Little expensive but might be best solution for some of you with long runs at 4K. Worth a try! http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=14232 

They also have in wall CL2 Rated spec just like it but more expensive. 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14314


----------



## ereed

Just saw slimrun hdmi line by monoprice is 4K at 60hz but the CL2 rated version is 4K at 30hz for 100 meters. Keep that in mind the differences.


----------



## SimpleTheater

aaranddeeman said:


> This is pointless. You do not need active cable for 6 feet length. OTOH, it may actually become a problem.
> Use a passive cable, preferably.


Pointless? A $10 cable with a full return policy, lifetime warranty and it works. Are you just trolling?


----------



## aaranddeeman

SimpleTheater said:


> Pointless? A $10 cable with a full return policy, lifetime warranty and it works. Are you just trolling?


It's not the question of $$. 
IMHO, as I mentioned already, the active cable between Source to AVR will do harm than good. And hence it is pointless.
As for trolling, go and find my posts in this thread. If that is trolling then who cares.


----------



## alebonau

aaranddeeman said:


> It's not the question of $$.
> IMHO, as I mentioned already, the active cable between Source to AVR will do harm than good. And hence it is pointless.
> As for trolling, go and find my posts in this thread. If that is trolling then who cares.


in support of this am running a generic cable between sammy player and marantz av8802A. it doesnt seem to matter. I dont think I even paid anything for the generic cable.

over relatively short distances under 5-7m cables dont seem to matter too much or so it would seem. But over that things seem to be an issue and cable selection being pretty important i.e. in the LONG category and hence why I created this thread...


----------



## SimpleTheater

aaranddeeman said:


> It's not the question of $$.
> IMHO, as I mentioned already, the active cable between Source to AVR will do harm than good. And hence it is pointless.
> As for trolling, go and find my posts in this thread. If that is trolling then who cares.


People will read this statement and think you know something about active cables. Please source your belief that "harm" can be caused. If you can't then that is the very definition of trolling.


----------



## markrubin

^^^^

move on please


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. There is nothing magical about an active cable. But at short distances it's an overkill because there is no benefit over a good quality passive cable.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. There is nothing magical about an active cable. But at short distances it's an overkill because there is no benefit over a good quality passive cable.


Monoprice quotes the following on their active cable descriptions. So probably more than one cable could become an issue as it appears.

_Note also that only one Active HDMI cable should be present in any single cable run, even if using a switch, splitter, or matrix. Connecting multiple active HDMI cables in series will cause them to fail to reliably transmit the video signal because each is trying to do the same thing._


----------



## Otto Pylot

aaranddeeman said:


> Monoprice quotes the following on their active cable descriptions. So probably more than one cable could become an issue as it appears.
> 
> _Note also that only one Active HDMI cable should be present in any single cable run, even if using a switch, splitter, or matrix. Connecting multiple active HDMI cables in series will cause them to fail to reliably transmit the video signal because each is trying to do the same thing._


Yes. We've been saying that for a long time. The sink end of the cable needs to draw power from the device so connecting them in series, or to a "passive" coupler, will result in issues. The recommended use of an active cable is for distances greater that about 25' with an unbroken source to sink connection.


----------



## SimpleTheater

aaranddeeman said:


> Monoprice quotes the following on their active cable descriptions. So probably more than one cable could become an issue as it appears.
> 
> _Note also that only one Active HDMI cable should be present in any single cable run, even if using a switch, splitter, or matrix. Connecting multiple active HDMI cables in series will cause them to fail to reliably transmit the video signal because each is trying to do the same thing._


This is a basic misunderstanding of how HDMI works. The HDMI inputs on the receiver act as the sink end of the cable. The HDMI output of the receiver acts as the source and the HDMI input on the tv acts as the sink. 

An incorrect way of using multiple active cables would be to send from the receiver to a matrix switch, then active cables continuing to tv's/projectors (like in a really nice basement bar or a real bar). I hope this clarifies things for those who read but don't participate in this thread.


----------



## Ratman

But I think that the point was, before this ship went off course is that a 6' active HDMI cable is really not necessary for _most_ applications.


----------



## SimpleTheater

Ratman said:


> But I think that the point was, before this ship went off course is that a 6' active HDMI cable is really not necessary for _most_ applications.


No, the original point made was that an active cable could do harm. Lots of people read these threads and disinformation should not be spread. HDMI is complicated enough.


----------



## Ratman

Neither will a "turbo" in a Prius. 


Disinformation, IMHO is that an active HDMI is necessary/required at a distance of 6'.


EDIT:
Perhaps the post that got the undies twisted wasn't worded properly. The intent may have been: "Depending on one's setup/configuration, a 6' active HDMI _may_ cause additional (unexpected) problems. But typically at 6', an active HDMI cable is not required. YMMV"


----------



## SimpleTheater

Ratman said:


> Disinformation, IMHO is that an active HDMI is necessary/required at a distance of 6'.


Couldn't agree more.



Ratman said:


> EDIT:
> Perhaps the post that got the undies twisted wasn't worded properly. The intent may have been: "Depending on one's setup/configuration, an additional 6' active HDMI _may_ cause additional (unexpected) problems."


Absolutely true. HDMI is, IMO, stupidly complicated, in part to stop pirating, which it doesn't do. If someone wants to daisy chain a video signal 400' through their own house and stick a matrix switch in the middle, why can't they. HDMI causes too many headaches for the advanced home a/v buff. This thread is only necessary because HDMI has over complicated simple things.


----------



## Ratman

Phew! 
Now we can move on.


----------



## alebonau

maybe we can...

as per my original post kicking off this thread,



> UHD Blu-ray and Long HDMI cables - what works !
> I think its worth posting a thread here to help those trying to work their way through the mine field of uhd blu-ray and the challenge that presents to most when comes to finding a hdmi cable over long lengths that does indeed work !
> 
> *as a note we are talking cable lengths beyond about 7.5m(25ft) / 10m(32/35ft) that most people struggle to find solutions* and the kind of cable length most need if running projectors and especially in dedicated rooms and the like where the source player/av processor is remotely situated


please note the bolded section... we are definitely talking LONG cables here folks lengths beyond 7.5m (25ft) / 10m (32/35ft) ....


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Phew!
> Now we can move on.


I still thing someone is trying to make a point but he is p***ing in the wind. We are stuck with HDMI for lot so reasons (all wrong) so we'll just have to live with it.


----------



## ereed

So since everyone is bickering about HDMI I'm just gonna assume people missed my previous suggestion about the new monoprice slimline? Anyone try it yet? Its fiber optic passive cable that can do 100 meters 4K at 60hz.


----------



## aaranddeeman

ereed said:


> So since everyone is bickering about HDMI I'm just gonna assume people missed my previous suggestion about the new monoprice slimline? Anyone try it yet? Its fiber optic passive cable that can do 100 meters 4K at 60hz.


I don't think it's passive. It says active on their page.
Unless devices on both sides accept direct optical connection, the cable will be active as there will be an adapter/converter of some sort that has to convert optical back to copper/metal on either side.


----------



## alebonau

aaranddeeman said:


> I don't think it's passive. It says active on their page.
> Unless devices on both sides accept direct optical connection, the cable will be active as there will be an adapter/converter of some sort that has to convert optical back to copper/metal on either side.


I think he wants to know if anyone has tried it as yet


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ok, my turn. As far as we know, no one has tried the cable because there aren't any posts that I see. I would suggest the poster buy the cable and any adapters, paying close attention to the return policy, and test it out for us. At 300' I sure hope he has conduit.


----------



## Ratman

I assume this is the MP cable in discussion:


http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700


Apparently available at a minimum of 75'.


----------



## ereed

aaranddeeman said:


> I don't think it's passive. It says active on their page.
> Unless devices on both sides accept direct optical connection, the cable will be active as there will be an adapter/converter of some sort that has to convert optical back to copper/metal on either side.


I wondered if you actually bothered to even looked at it???? Check this link again! http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700 It does not say anything about active cable at all. And why would you need an adapter? The ends are HDMI just like all other HDMI cable. It just uses fiber optic instead of copper to transmit the signal because of long runs, but the connectors are same as others.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Active, optical cable, no adapters needed. Price is from $0.82 to $1.73 per foot. Cost per foot is not bad if you purchase at 175' or longer. At 5mm cable thickness I'd be concerned about bend radius.


----------



## ereed

Ratman said:


> I assume this is the MP cable in discussion:
> 
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700
> 
> 
> Apparently available at a minimum of 75'.


Yes, minimum run is 75 feet. This is the cable I'm taking about.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ereed said:


> I wondered if you actually bothered to even looked at it???? Check this link again! http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700 It does not say anything about active cable at all. And why would you need an adapter? The ends are HDMI just like all other HDMI cable. It just uses fiber optic instead of copper to transmit the signal because of long runs, but the connectors are same as others.


Did you bother to read the entire description? From the description, _*SlimRun™ AV is an active optical cable system designed to connect two HDMI-enabled devices with high performance, low power consumption, and low cost. *_Low power consumption means that it draws very little power from the sink end, just like any other active cable. The question about the adapters was a fair one because we've seen optical cables that need some sort of adapter so that a short HDMI cable can be uses to connect source and sink.


----------



## ereed

Aghhh....now I see where it says active optical cable now! Either way, worth a try especially for long runs if you're running from player to tv or projector. Should be just as good or better than their normal active cables that are longer than 50 feet for 4:4:4 at 60hz 4K. Wish I had 4K to even test it. But this cable might work for you 4K users.


----------



## Ratman

ereed said:


> It does not say anything about active cable at all.


From the link: "_SlimRun™ AV is an *active optical cable system* designed to connect two HDMI-enabled devices ..._




> And why would you need an adapter?


 The "adapter" is part of the cable to convert copper to optical and optical to copper.





Otto Pylot said:


> At 5mm cable thickness I'd be concerned about bend radius.



From the link:


Minimum Bend Radius 20mm


----------



## ereed

Question is.....who is gonna be the first one to review/test it?????


----------



## Ratman

Not me.... I have no need or requirement to run any HDMI over 6'. 
Much easier and complies to HDMI.org recommendations! 


(Keep your friends close and your enemies closer)


----------



## aaranddeeman

Ratman said:


> From the link: "_SlimRun™ AV is an *active optical cable system* designed to connect two HDMI-enabled devices ..._
> 
> 
> The "adapter" is part of the cable to convert copper to optical and optical to copper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the link:
> 
> 
> Minimum Bend Radius 20mm



Thanks Ratman.
IMHO there has to be some electronics involved (even if it is within the connector) to convert copper to optical and vice versa and it will need power. And hence it will become active in my opinion.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> Active, optical cable, no adapters needed. Price is from $0.82 to $1.73 per foot. Cost per foot is not bad if you purchase at 175' or longer. At 5mm cable thickness I'd be concerned about bend radius.


No. Not a separate adapter, but looking at the cable it must be built in the connector itself.


----------



## aaranddeeman

ereed said:


> Question is.....who is gonna be the first one to review/test it?????


The problem is the shortest they have is 75'. Unless I want my neighbour's neighbor to see the picture, that's way too long.
If they have something into the 30-35' range, most of us would be willing to try.


----------



## ereed

Ratman said:


> Not me.... I have no need or requirement to run any HDMI over 6'.
> Much easier and complies to HDMI.org recommendations!
> 
> 
> (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer)


That is the best way to go about it. Best to keep it short as possible.....or have the player close to the tv/projector side as possible. Unfortunately that is not the case for others.


----------



## Ratman

Okay. I think we are all on the same page. It is active because it's being converted and has adapters built into the connectors.


----------



## ereed

aaranddeeman said:


> The problem is the shortest they have is 75'. Unless I want my neighbour's neighbor to see the picture, that's way too long.
> If they have something into the 30-35' range, most of us would be willing to try.


It would be nice if they can have shorter than 75 feet. They already have active cables in the 30-35 feet. They are not going to put their fiber optic line in that feet cause they want to sell all other products. If they put fiber in 30 feet then they will loose sales in the other lines so they are being smart keeping the feet long. But honestly if I had 4k and needed something to work I wouldn't mind having 75 feet of something that works compared to 30 feet of something that didn't work. Its just like speaker wire, some people need 10 feet run from amp to one side of speaker surround but need 40 feet other side but still run 40 feet on both sides to keep it even. LOL Just take the extra wire and roll it up nicely so it stays hidden.


----------



## Otto Pylot

aaranddeeman said:


> No. Not a separate adapter, but looking at the cable it must be built in the connector itself.


Yes, the optical to HDMI conversion is built-in at the sink end along with the Redmere-like chipsets. Some optical cables do not have the built-in conversions and require an additional piece of hardware.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes, the optical to HDMI conversion is built-in at the sink end along with the Redmere-like chipsets. Some optical cables do not have the built-in conversions and require an additional piece of hardware.


I would think it's safe to assume a conversion is taking place at both ends.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> I would think it's safe to assume a conversion is taking place at both ends.


Yep. This has been a fun thread


----------



## Ratman

I'm sure it's not exhausted yet (although... exhausting).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> I'm sure it's not exhausted yet (although... exhausting).


I'd quote Miss Vito again but I'll save it for another time


----------



## Ratman

But.... you have been a lovely, lovely witness.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I had an optical HDMI cable for years. Sadly, either the transmitter or receiver stopped working and I had to replace the entire cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> But.... you have been a lovely, lovely witness.


That does it! I'm pulling the DVD out of storage and watching it this afternoon


----------



## ereed

Dave Vaughn said:


> I had an optical HDMI cable for years. Sadly, either the transmitter or receiver stopped working and I had to replace the entire cable.


Maybe you can be the first person to review the new slimline series by Monoprice????


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I would if I had time. Healing froma broken arm and typing is a 8itch.


----------



## aaranddeeman

ereed said:


> It would be nice if they can have shorter than 75 feet. They already have active cables in the 30-35 feet. They are not going to put their fiber optic line in that feet cause they want to sell all other products. If they put fiber in 30 feet then they will loose sales in the other lines so they are being smart keeping the feet long. But honestly if I had 4k and needed something to work I wouldn't mind having 75 feet of something that works compared to 30 feet of something that didn't work. Its just like speaker wire, some people need 10 feet run from amp to one side of speaker surround but need 40 feet other side but still run 40 feet on both sides to keep it even. LOL Just take the extra wire and roll it up nicely so it stays hidden.


True. But in my case more than half the cable will be sitting behind the equipment. And I will have blurry picture as it has to pass through so many roundabouts.


----------



## Ratman

aaranddeeman said:


> True. But in my case more than half the cable will be sitting behind the equipment. And I will have blurry picture as it has to pass through so many roundabouts.


How do know that? It's a digital signal. There shouldn't be a "blurry picture". If it can work properly at 300', why would 30' "roundabout" excess be a problem with a 75' cable?


----------



## aaranddeeman

Ratman said:


> How do know that? It's a digital signal. There shouldn't be a "blurry picture". If it can work properly at 300', why would 30' "roundabout" excess be a problem with a 75' cable?


Because the frames will be dizzy (going through circles many times) by the time they reach the display..


----------



## ereed

aaranddeeman said:


> Because the frames will be dizzy (going through circles many times) by the time they reach the display..


I'm just gonna pretend you are joking. LOL


----------



## ereed

Dave Vaughn said:


> I would if I had time. Healing froma broken arm and typing is a 8itch.


Sorry to hear that. At least you can just rest while you test it and watch movies for hours and see if there are any dropouts or issues. No typing required til after say....10 movies. LOL


----------



## Smooth9883

*This might have been built for me*

So I might be willing to give this a shot. I just picked up a tivo bolt and I'm anxious to cross over into the 4K realm. Currently I have a run that is just shy of 75'. When I built the basement I ran a 1.5" pipe from my tv on the fire place to my media room under my stairs. I ran the pipe up along the ceiling by the windows, then turn and run it right to the stairs. Pictures attached. 

Currently I have a Cat 6 cable in the pipe connected to HDBaseT from mono price. I'm having big issues though with the HDbaseT. The boxes constantly need to be reset. So much so that I built in a start up procedure to restart the HDBaseT 30 seconds after all devices have turned on. It's a pane. So if this cable can pass 4K I am game. I have three concerns though.

1) Currently my Monoprice box by the receiver is also a switch which allows me to display the same signal to the TV over my sink in the kitchen. I believe I can find another HDMI out on my receiver to fix this problem, but it's possible I might need another switch. Is this something I'll be able to figure out?

2) What 4K TV should I get  I think a curved samsung will allow me to hang it on the fireplace in the corner and then I can get a 75". 

3) My AV receiver is a Denon AVR X4100-W. From what I'm reading I might not be able to pass 4K through it because it's not able to pass HDCP 2.2 only 2.0. 

So if I buy the cable, will I be able to let you guys know if it works with my current setup? $126 is way cheaper than any 4K HDBaseT box and I don't believe there is an HDBaseT box that allows for top of the line 4K.

What do you think?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Good move on installing conduit! Even if the cable doesn't work as expected, it's a lot easier to swap out. Did you install a pull-string at the same time? I'm assuming the CAT-6 is solid core, non-CCS, and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable? HDBT is the way to go but the chipsets will probably need to be updated for the higher demanding video standards but I'm not sure when that's going to happen. 75' is long none-the-less. Do let us know.


----------



## Smooth9883

Otto Pylot said:


> Good move on installing conduit! Even if the cable doesn't work as expected, it's a lot easier to swap out. Did you install a pull-string at the same time? I'm assuming the CAT-6 is solid core, non-CCS, and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable? HDBT is the way to go but the chipsets will probably need to be updated for the higher demanding video standards but I'm not sure when that's going to happen. 75' is long none-the-less. Do let us know.


I put in two pull strings. As far as the Cat 6 cable, I'm not 100% sure. I like AV but I'm a novice. I look at my setup and to a stranger it's professional, I think it's slightly ghetto lol. 

Is there an HDBaseT kit that does 4K like this cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Solid core is solid copper wire, not CCS (copper coated steel), usually 24AWG. Each wire is individually insulated and then twisted in pairs (4 pairs). All 4 pairs and then enclosed in a cable jacket. It's a little stiff but runs easily through a conduit. All you have to do is terminate the ends with some sort of active termination like HDBT. Or, you can use it to extend an ethernet connection by terminating with a punch down keystone jack. I did that to hard wire my HTS.

I don't know if HDBT has been updated to handle I'm assuming 4k, 4:4:4 @ 60Hz, at 75'. Hopefully Joe will jump in because he has a really good knowledge base of all things HDBT.

Hopefully the cable will work well at 75'. I'm a little dubious of mfr claims over 50' because we've seen time after time that one cable does not work for everyone. Probably because setups and equipment vary considerably.

Two pull-strings is thinking ahead


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> Two pull-strings is thinking ahead


May be he has two sections (the way he described).
Otherwise two pull strings.. Lol


----------



## aaranddeeman

Please post your review if anyone try this cable once it arrives.
This sounds interesting, a passive cable with long enough lengths and claimed to pass 18gbps


----------



## davisnub

Just tested out the monoprice cabernet 35' cable. No go. Couldn't pass the menu of the sammy and phillips uhd player.


----------



## SimpleTheater

davisnub said:


> Just tested out the monoprice cabernet 35' cable. No go. Couldn't pass the menu of the sammy and phillips uhd player.


That's too bad. Was that connected directly from the Phillips or through the AVR? What kind of AVR and projector do you have?

I'm running from the Phillips to a Yam 3060 (6ft) then using a 45 ft Cabernet to a JVC 550. No issues.


----------



## aaranddeeman

davisnub said:


> Just tested out the monoprice cabernet 35' cable. No go. Couldn't pass the menu of the sammy and phillips uhd player.


Oh oh. I have the same cable. Looks like my future is in "dark"...


----------



## davisnub

SimpleTheater said:


> That's too bad. Was that connected directly from the Phillips or through the AVR? What kind of AVR and projector do you have?
> 
> I'm running from the Phillips to a Yam 3060 (6ft) then using a 45 ft Cabernet to a JVC 550. No issues.


I attempted both scenarios. I have a marantz 7702mk2 and a jvc rs500.


----------



## Ted99

I don't know how to link another thread in here, but for someone who does, please check out the Thread about 18Gpbs HDMI cables in HT discussions, AVS Forum Vendors, Sewell Direct. Looks interesting. I don't recognize the testing lab they reference, but pictures of an actual test are shown.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ted99 said:


> I don't know how to link another thread in here, but for someone who does, please check out the Thread about 18Gpbs HDMI cables in HT discussions, AVS Forum Vendors, Sewell Direct. Looks interesting. I don't recognize the testing lab they reference, but pictures of an actual test are shown.


Sewell Direct has recently started to advertise their product thru an employee. They don't really specify a certification lab other than they do their own testing. The pictures that Jared showed depicted a hand-held device, which he eventually stated that it was just for demonstration purposes and not an actual test. We certainly hope that they don't "certify" their cables with hand-held devices. Their claims sound as good as other mfrs so time will tell if their cables perform as they state at varying lengths and different HTS setups. Caveat emptor.


----------



## ereed

Otto Pylot said:


> Sewell Direct has recently started to advertise their product thru an employee. They don't really specify a certification lab other than they do their own testing. The pictures that Jared showed depicted a hand-held device, which he eventually stated that it was just for demonstration purposes and not an actual test. We certainly hope that they don't "certify" their cables with hand-held devices. Their claims sound as good as other mfrs so time will tell if their cables perform as they state at varying lengths and different HTS setups. Caveat emptor.


I just ordered 50 foot sewell premium high speed hdmi cable for $29 to connect from my bluray to projector. Its not 4K so should be fine. Will see how it holds up. Heard good things about their connectors so I thought to try their cable and see how it compares to my monoprice redmere.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ereed said:


> I just ordered 50 foot sewell premium high speed hdmi cable for $29 to connect from my bluray to projector. Its not 4K so should be fine. Will see how it holds up. Heard good things about their connectors so I thought to try their cable and see how it compares to my monoprice redmere.


If the cable is sold as "Premium High Speed HDMI Cable" then it has been certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) following HDMI Licensing protocols. HDMI has copyrighted the name Premium High Speed HDMI Cable to distinguish other ATC certified cables that haven't been tested for the higher video standards. If it really is a Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, then it should come with some sort of certificate of authenticity. So you ordered a 50' passive HDMI cable for $29? If true, that's a great price. I hope it works well.


----------



## ereed

Otto Pylot said:


> If the cable is sold as "Premium High Speed HDMI Cable" then it has been certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) following HDMI Licensing protocols. HDMI has copyrighted the name Premium High Speed HDMI Cable to distinguish other ATC certified cables that haven't been tested for the higher video standards. If it really is a Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, then it should come with some sort of certificate of authenticity. So you ordered a 50' passive HDMI cable for $29? If true, that's a great price. I hope it works well.


It says premium on their site so not sure if it really means anything. Its not passive, its redmere technology but I needed 50 feet. They have it for $25 but it cost $29 with shipping. https://sewelldirect.com/redhead-by...ed-hdmi-cable-50-feet-with-redmere-technology

It was either this one or the Monoprice Cabernet and Sewell is cheaper so went for that one. Hope it works fine. And its a direct run from panny bluray to sony 45es and neither are 4K so should be ok. Will report soon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

If you're only going to push 1080p, then a 50' active cable should be ok. Hopefully their active cables have the current version of chipsets.


----------



## ereed

Otto Pylot said:


> If you're only going to push 1080p, then a 50' active cable should be ok. Hopefully their active cables have the current version of chipsets.


People tell me passive up to 50 foot is fine for 1080p so I would assume active should be just as good especially in a direct run with no splitters or anything. I don't know what chipset they use but you can look at the link I provided in earlier post and tell me what you think. I'm thinking its probably same as monoprice? My monoprice redmere is much thinner cable than the sewell 28awg I just ordered. Should arrive at my doorstep today. What is best way to test it other than plugging it in and turning it on? If its picture then great, if no picture than its no good. Not sure how else to test it but will know hopefully by end of weekend.


----------



## Ratman

ereed said:


> People tell me passive up to 50 foot is fine for 1080p ...


 Those are the people you shouldn't listen to.


----------



## kaotikr1

I have a 40' monoprice cable that i have had for a year or two that is working on UHD. One caveat is i am using a Lumagen Pro and that helps on longer cables.


----------



## alebonau

thanks kaotikr1 that would appear to be then panasonic 900 uhd feeding lumagen pro that feeds jvc rs500 ? of is there anything else in the mix  and looks like a 40' mono price CL2 ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Those are the people you shouldn't listen to.


Yep. As I said, 50' SHOULD be ok, but at 50'for any cable there are no guarantees.


----------



## kaotikr1

alebonau said:


> thanks kaotikr1 that would appear to be then panasonic 900 uhd feeding lumagen pro that feeds jvc rs500 ? of is there anything else in the mix  and looks like a 40' mono price CL2 ?




UB900 - AVM60 - Lumagen Pro - RS500. You are correct on the cable I couldn't find a receipt to verify the exact one but it's a cl2 40' monoprice.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. As I said, 50' SHOULD be ok, but at 50'for any cable there are no guarantees.


He said, "People tell me *passive* up to 50 foot is fine for 1080p... "


I don't agree. You probably wouldn't either.


----------



## vondernostrand

Bought $70 certified 35ft HDMI 2.0 4k cables last year from mycablemart to good effect on 1080P 3D use. Hoping they would still work to good effect when I purchased a 4k display. Any users of these on 4k? Expect 4k display purchase this September without disappointments and delay ordering new cable. Yikes fiber @ $220.

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=255

cheers


----------



## Dave Vaughn

vondernostrand said:


> Bought $70 certified 35ft HDMI 2.0 4k cables last year from mycablemart to good effect on 1080P 3D use. Hoping they would still work to good effect when I purchased a 4k display. Any users of these on 4k? Expect 4k display purchase this September without disappointments and delay ordering new cable. Yikes fiber @ $220.
> 
> http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=255
> 
> cheers


They won't work. They have the old Redmere chip in them.


----------



## ereed

vondernostrand said:


> Bought $70 certified 35ft HDMI 2.0 4k cables last year from mycablemart to good effect on 1080P 3D use. Hoping they would still work to good effect when I purchased a 4k display. Any users of these on 4k? Expect 4k display purchase this September without disappointments and delay ordering new cable. Yikes fiber @ $220.
> 
> http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=255
> 
> cheers


There are a lot of issues with hdmi cables that are not working especially for 4K at this moment. Monoprice has slimrun fiber optic for much cheaper....not sure how it compares to the $200 fiber optic but I would assume light is light.


----------



## ereed

While I don't have 4K system I just want to say that my 50 foot redmere hdmi by sewell works great. Have it connected from Panny bdt500 bluray to sony45es projector and no issues. Not sure how this helps with people running 4K but if you're still on 2K and need 50 foot don't hesitate to try the Sewell 50 foot redmere. Maybe someone can try one of their fiber optic or higher premium redmeres for 100 feet runs for their 4K and report back for others if it works.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Any specification for a cable mentioning certified for HDMI 2.0 is best ignored.

Interesting that the Fibre cables are 'true' 4K - are the non-Fibre HDMI 2.0 spec cables 'false' 

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndabunka

nonstopdoc1 said:


> I can confirm that 35' Cabernet CL2 high speed HDMI cable from monoprice works perfectly and supports ARC, 4K60P and HDR. I have 3 of them in my setup (AVR, Nvidia Shield and Samsung UHD BD Player)


You appear to be one of the few to have been successful with the 35-ft length. Perhaps your hardware is more lenient than the hardware that Dave V and others have been using so which AVR are you using? Which projector?

It appears that many others have been successfull with the 22g 30-ft Monoprice. As that length is sufficient for me I ordered one.

I currently have Best Buy's 24-ft "4K Ultra HD Compatible" Rocketfish ($118 open box) that is a bit short for my needs so it's going back Monday morning. The extra 6 feet will allow me to route it cleaning to my rack and also to allow is to come down the additional 18" needed to where my projector will be mounted.


----------



## SimpleTheater

ndabunka said:


> You appear to be one of the few to have been successful with the 35-ft length. Perhaps your hardware is more lenient than the hardware that Dave V and others have been using so which AVR are you using? Which projector?


For those not reading the older posts, I have had no difficulty with the Monoprice 45' Cabernet. Yamaha 3060 to JVC RS-400. 

HDMI is so complicated to figure out, as I posted a link earlier to an article that found out a chipset being used in a source wasn't sending the correct information to the projector, yet some displays were happy ignoring the bad information and didn't have an issue.


----------



## ndabunka

SimpleTheater said:


> For those not reading the older posts, I have had no difficulty with the Monoprice 45' Cabernet. Yamaha 3060 to JVC RS-400.
> 
> HDMI is so complicated to figure out, as I posted a link earlier to an article that found out a chipset being used in a source wasn't sending the correct information to the projector, yet some displays were happy ignoring the bad information and didn't have an issue.


I have the same AVR as you, the Yammy A3060 but my projector is the new 5040ub so perhaps I should have investigated who has had success with this particular projector and the MonoPrice cables. Since I didn't do that step prior to ordering, I will update this thread once I get it.

We may need some type of summary here of AVR/Cable/Projector/UHD Player in order to do this right and to better understand if there is a cable, AVR or projector issue. 

Of course, since this thread is about "long UHD cables" ONLY any non-UHD results are not material to this thread. Here is a start based on your info:

SUCCESS
SimpleTheater - A3060/MonoPrice Cabernet 45'/JVC RS-400/Phillips UHD
D.Vaughn - Denon/AudioQuest/JVC RS-400/Samsung UHD
alebonau - ?????/Kordz(Australia only)/unknown/unknown

FAILED
D.Vaughn - Denon/MonoPrice Cabernet 30'/JVC RS-400/Samsung UHD

IN PROGRESS/TESTING
ndabunka - A3060/MonoPrice Cabernet 30'/Epson 5040ub/Phillips UHD

All others including booster and non-UHD should not be part of this thread as there are other threads for non-UHD & each of the booster solutions could be in their own thread as well.


----------



## SimpleTheater

ndabunka said:


> I have the same AVR as you, the Yammy A3060 but my projector is the new 5040ub so perhaps I should have investigated who has had success with this particular projector and the MonoPrice cables. Since I didn't do that step prior to ordering, I will update this thread once I get it.
> 
> We may need some type of summary here of AVR/Cable/Projector/#ofBends in order to do this right. UHD ONLY (e.g. non-UHD results like ereed's are not material to this thread and therefore should not be included in this table). Here is a start based on your info:
> 
> SUCCESS
> SimpleTheater - A3060/Cabernet 45'/JVC RS-400/unknown
> D.Vaughn - Denon/Something Else/JVC RS-400/unknown
> 
> FAILED
> D.Vaughn - Denon/Cabernet 30'/JVC RS-400/unknown
> 
> IN PROGRESS/TESTING
> ndabunka - A3060/Cabernet 30'/Epson 5040ub/2 90-degreen 20 feet apart


I have no "hard bends". There are 2 90 degree bends, but they occur over a 12" length of the cable, so I'm not sure if you consider that a bend or not.


----------



## ndabunka

SimpleTheater said:


> I have no "hard bends". There are 2 90 degree bends, but they occur over a 12" length of the cable, so I'm not sure if you consider that a bend or not.


I edited the criteria after your posted to remove the "bends" as that is more applicable to fiber (in most cases)


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I also have a Marantz pre/pro, not Denon (although they are essentially the same company).


----------



## Otto Pylot

SimpleTheater said:


> I have no "hard bends". There are 2 90 degree bends, but they occur over a 12" length of the cable, so I'm not sure if you consider that a bend or not.


A 90 degree bend could be considered a hard bend depending on how severe the bend is. A "gentle" 90 degree bend should be fine for any cable as long as there isn't any crimping on the cable at the inside of the bend. A sharp 90 degree bend is something else entirely. Installing a cable in a conduit still allows for a gentle bend if you end up pulling the cable a bit. A 90 degree through a hole in a stud or something else can result in issues if the cable gets pulled for whatever reason.


----------



## ndabunka

Otto Pylot said:


> A 90 degree bend could be considered a hard bend depending on how severe the bend is. A "gentle" 90 degree bend should be fine for any cable as long as there isn't any crimping on the cable at the inside of the bend. A sharp 90 degree bend is something else entirely. Installing a cable in a conduit still allows for a gentle bend if you end up pulling the cable a bit. A 90 degree through a hole in a stud or something else can result in issues if the cable gets pulled for whatever reason.


As you pointed out, severe bends could well impact a signal but we also need to be realistic. EVERY ceiling-mounted projector I have seen has a 90-degree bend near the HDMI interfaces (in order to be routed up to the ceiling at LEAST a 90-degree bend is required). That was one of the reasons I removed the bend count/severity from my criteria parameters. In theory, cables and other house 110v, other electronic equipment (UPS, generators) that the cables run across/over during the run could also matter.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ that is very true so no argument there. However, trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over a given distance is a different animal, especially with HDMI. What you've done to minimize bend radius is good. I think the point of this is, for those that are lurking, is that one has to take into consideration not only the equipment used in their HTS but how it is connected with short and long runs. I think some of the problems that folks have with cables is that they just look at the marketing and slick advertising and when the cable doesn't work as expected, they blame the cable forgetting the other parameters that may affect connectivity. It ain't like it used to be, that's for sure.


----------



## jrcrunch

looking for 30++ feet hdmi cables for my 5040 ub

are these good???


http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=13700&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024019&p_id=13757&seq=1&format=2


----------



## aaranddeeman

jrcrunch said:


> looking for 30++ feet hdmi cables for my 5040 ub
> 
> are these good???
> 
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=13700&seq=1&format=2
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024019&p_id=13757&seq=1&format=2


Good only when you test them and they work. Until then everything is a theory (in the 4K world with longer than 15/20' cable run).
People have success with cabernet series, but then not all of them


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. It's not just the cable. Other factors that can affect reliable transmission are how current the HDMI chipsets are in your equipment, the physical run (relatively straight or lots of bends and snaking), switches, etc. Even some active cables may not have current chipsets that can handle the correct error correction, timing, etc that is so critical for reliable 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz signal transmission over a long run (>25' or so). Even slight variations in the QC of the cable can affect some setups. Cables that are labeled as "tested to 18Gbps" or meets "HDMI 2.0 requirements" are suspect because you have no way of knowing how those claims were verified, either independently (by an ATC for example) or in-house. Unless you can get an actual Certificate of Compliance for the length of cable you purchased, mfr claims are suspect, and even with said certificate, that's not a 100% guarantee, but about as best as you can do.

Purchase wisely, read the return policy very carefully, and keep your receipts. Unfortunately at this juncture, you'll just have to experiment to see what works best for you and your setup.


----------



## ereed

So has anyone tried the slim run fiber optic HDMI by monoprice or sewell new premium hdmi in 100 feet to see if it pass the signal for 4K? I'm surprised no one has ordered or tried the fiber optic ones and reported it yet. They seem affordable to try at least. I wonder if its better than the hdmi over cat5/6 method for 100 feet?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

There are no Cat/65 solutions that work for the current output of the UHD players on the market right now. They are limited to 8 bit 4:2:0, if I remember correctly.


----------



## RayB

ndabunka said:


> I have the same AVR as you, the Yammy A3060 but my projector is the new 5040ub so perhaps I should have investigated who has had success with this particular projector and the MonoPrice cables. Since I didn't do that step prior to ordering, I will update this thread once I get it.
> 
> We may need some type of summary here of AVR/Cable/Projector/UHD Player in order to do this right and to better understand if there is a cable, AVR or projector issue.
> 
> Of course, since this thread is about "long UHD cables" ONLY any non-UHD results are not material to this thread. Here is a start based on your info:
> 
> SUCCESS
> SimpleTheater - A3060/MonoPrice Cabernet 45'/JVC RS-400/Phillips UHD
> D.Vaughn - Denon/AudioQuest/JVC RS-400/Samsung UHD
> alebonau - ?????/Kordz(Australia only)/unknown/unknown
> 
> FAILED
> D.Vaughn - Denon/MonoPrice Cabernet 30'/JVC RS-400/Samsung UHD
> 
> IN PROGRESS/TESTING
> ndabunka - A3060/MonoPrice Cabernet 30'/Epson 5040ub/Phillips UHD
> 
> All others including booster and non-UHD should not be part of this thread as there are other threads for non-UHD & each of the booster solutions could be in their own thread as well.


Another data point:
I just replaced a 20 ft Monoprice Luxe CL3 (Active High Speed) with an Audioquest Pearl 5 meter cable. The Luxe was able to display UHD HDR from my Philips BDP7501 but would not display the home screen or menu settings when the player is set to 4k/60p 4:4:4. All works fine with the Audioquest Pearl. 

I'm not making any kind of recommendation regarding cables or equipment. Just test first. I had to re-wire through a brick fireplace and a wall, because I didn't test everything first. In my defense, I was still learning 

I still use a Luxe for the run from the cable box to my display and it works fine. I also have an unused Luxe for a future device if needed.


----------



## aaranddeeman

ereed said:


> So has anyone tried the slim run fiber optic HDMI by monoprice or sewell new premium hdmi in 100 feet to see if it pass the signal for 4K? I'm surprised no one has ordered or tried the fiber optic ones and reported it yet. They seem affordable to try at least. I wonder if its better than the hdmi over cat5/6 method for 100 feet?


"Affordable" is subjective.
Also the length. The minimum is 75'.
Give me 30-35' for about $1 a foot and I am in.


----------



## ereed

aaranddeeman said:


> "Affordable" is subjective.
> Also the length. The minimum is 75'.
> Give me 30-35' for about $1 a foot and I am in.


Original Poster said it needed to be longer than 25 feet but doesn't specify exactly how long. Thats why I threw in the 100 foot fiber optic. Lots of others mentioned on here that nothing works under 50 foot for 4K 60hz, etc. While it may or may not be cable issue like others have mentioned it could be the source causing the issue instead. 

While fiber optic is not affordable as others, I still feel Monoprice is reasonably priced for their 75 foot run in fiber optic for less than AudioQuest and Monster's passive cable in much shorter feet. It would still be nice to see if it works at least in case others need something immediately that works rather than waiting on prices to come down. I did have a online chat with Monoprice on their site and they guaranteed their fiber optic slimrun at 100 feet will outperform luxe or any active cable at 35 feet and that the fiber optic was much more robust solution to 4K if you had to pick between the two. But again, no one has tested it or reviewed it yet......so I guess we will never know. LOL


----------



## aaranddeeman

ereed said:


> Original Poster said it needed to be longer than 25 feet but doesn't specify exactly how long. Thats why I threw in the 100 foot fiber optic. Lots of others mentioned on here that nothing works under 50 foot for 4K 60hz, etc. While it may or may not be cable issue like others have mentioned it could be the source causing the issue instead.
> 
> While fiber optic is not affordable as others, I still feel Monoprice is reasonably priced for their 75 foot run in fiber optic for less than AudioQuest and Monster's passive cable in much shorter feet. It would still be nice to see if it works at least in case others need something immediately that works rather than waiting on prices to come down. I did have a online chat with Monoprice on their site and they guaranteed their fiber optic slimrun at 100 feet will outperform luxe or any active cable at 35 feet and that the fiber optic was much more robust solution to 4K if you had to pick between the two. But again, no one has tested it or reviewed it yet......so I guess we will never know. LOL


Agreed.
Even with their current rate of CL2 (


----------



## Smackrabbit

As I wire the AV room in my new house, I'm testing cables to find a long one that works as well. I got a 35' one from Key Digital (http://www.keydigital.com/Downloads/Champion/Commercial_ProK_HDMI_Cables.pdf) as the specs say it should pass the full 18.0 Gb/sec signal and a friend that does CI work has had success with them.

From the Samsung player to a receiver (multiples, I'm doing reviews right now) or to the Vizio P65-C1 it works great. From the receiver to the Vizio, it totally fails. Same if I put the HDFury Integral into the signal chain to try to read the EDID, but it just isn't working. So either those devices aren't putting out enough voltage for it to work correctly, or something else. Using the passive 20' Monoprice UltraHD Premium cable (which is used for my projector typically) it works fine. Ordered the Monoprice Cabernet this morning and it will arrive Tuesday, and then I'll see if that works.

The KeyDigital is failing off the receiver even when using 1080p content from an AppleTV, making me think it's more of a voltage issue from the receiver than an HDMI 2.0 bandwidth issue, but I can't be certain. Checking with the receiver engineer to see what the voltage is and if that could be a possibility. But this is a huge headache for people.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I think you may be right based upon what you've written.


----------



## ndabunka

Smackrabbit said:


> The KeyDigital is failing off the receiver even when using 1080p content from an AppleTV, making me think it's more of a voltage issue from the receiver than an HDMI 2.0 bandwidth issue, but I can't be certain. Checking with the receiver engineer to see what the voltage is and if that could be a possibility. But this is a huge headache for people.


Key question... WHICH "receiver"?
Keep in mind that some might work where others fail so including the model of the receiver is EXTREMELY important in this discussion


----------



## Smackrabbit

ndabunka said:


> Key question... WHICH "receiver"?
> Keep in mind that some might work where others fail so including the model of the receiver is EXTREMELY important in this discussion


I've tested this with the Onkyo TX-NR555 and Anthem MRX 520 so far. The Yahama RX-V481 is up tomorrow and then Sony and Pioneer models once they arrive, along with the Anthem MRX-1120.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Is it failing with all those receivers??? That would be very strange unless the Vizio isn't playing nice with any of the receivers.


----------



## gonzalc3

I have tested monoprice luxe hdmi cable, fusion 4k hdmi cable, pangea audio hdmi cable and monster black platinum and all fail at 4K 4:4:4 60 fps 8bits.
I am connecting my panasonic ub900 player directly to my jvc x750 projector by using a 35 ft hdmi cable. On Tuesday, I will be testing a Celerity fiber optic cable. Having dealt in the past with a fiber optic hdmi cable, I feel confident that it will work. If not, Atlona Technologies will launch soon a cat 7 solution capable of transmitting 4K 4:4:4 60 fps 12 bits at 18 Gps that I am willing to try.
In my setup, I am not willing to test another hdmi cable made of copper or that it is silver plated.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gonzalc3 said:


> If not, Atlona Technologies will launch soon a cat 7 solution capable of transmiting 4K 4:4:4 60 fps 12 bits at 18 Gps that I am willing to try.
> In my setup, I am not willing to test another hdmi cable made of copper or that it is silver plated.


Unless the CAT-7 cable is a solid core, 24AWG copper cable (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable) I think distance will still be a problem. It will be interesting to see how, and if, Altona certifies HDMI 2.0a with a CAT-7 cable. Fiber optic should work ok and there are some very favorable reviews but keep in mind your bend radius. My guess is that for a lot of setups, the solid core copper is going to be that way to go with some sort of active termination (HDBT for example) and not an "HDMI cable".


----------



## G-Rex

It appears that the HDR data is compressed.


----------



## Smackrabbit

Tested with the Yamaha RX-V481 today. The KeyDigital cable still doesn't work when going from AVR to TV. Using shorter cables the AVR passes it through just fine. Will be testing the Monoprice cable when it arrives tomorrow.


----------



## ndabunka

Smackrabbit said:


> Tested with the Yamaha RX-V481 today. The KeyDigital cable still doesn't work when going from AVR to TV. Using shorter cables the AVR passes it through just fine. Will be testing the Monoprice cable when it arrives tomorrow.


Other users have found success with the 30-foot Monoprice cable but not the 35-foot version. Hope you have luck with the 35-foot monoprice.


----------



## Smackrabbit

The 35' Monoprice Cabaret arrived today. It passes the HDR signal from the Yamaha to the Vizio without issue. I'll do some more testing with the other receivers this week, but so far it seems good. I'll also test using the HDFury Integral in the center of the chain so I can read what the color format is coming off the cable, to verify that it'll handle everything despite what the specs say.


----------



## hornmdt

*Celerity Fiber Optic Cables*

I've about decided to give the Celerity fiber optic cable a shot. Has anyone tried it yet? My run is 40' from projector to rack via an in-wall conduit. I currently have Key Digital active cables and they won't do the job.


I have 2 sources, the Samsung UHD k8500 4K Blu-ray player and the DirecTV 4K Client so I will be installing 2 of the Celerity cables. My projector is the JVC 4K RS600.


This early adopting definitely has its challenges. If anyone has any knowledge about success or failure with these cables please please let me know.


Thank you!!


----------



## gonzalc3

Otto Pylot said:


> Unless the CAT-7 cable is a solid core, 24AWG copper cable (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable) I think distance will still be a problem. It will be interesting to see how, and if, Altona certifies HDMI 2.0a with a CAT-7 cable. Fiber optic should work ok and there are some very favorable reviews but keep in mind your bend radius. My guess is that for a lot of setups, the solid core copper is going to be that way to go with some sort of active termination (HDBT for example) and not an "HDMI cable".


The celerity fiber optic hdmi cable worked. I run some torture tests and it passed.


----------



## ereed

gonzalc3 said:


> The celerity fiber optic hdmi cable worked. I run some torture tests and it passed.


How long was the cable? You mind testing the monoprice fiber optic since its cheaper than celerity brand?


----------



## gonzalc3

ereed said:


> How long was the cable? You mind testing the monoprice fiber optic since its cheaper than celerity brand?


35 ft.


----------



## CoryW

Smackrabbit said:


> As I wire the AV room in my new house, I'm testing cables to find a long one that works as well. I got a 35' one from Key Digital (http://www.keydigital.com/Downloads/Champion/Commercial_ProK_HDMI_Cables.pdf) as the specs say it should pass the full 18.0 Gb/sec signal and a friend that does CI work has had success with them.
> 
> From the Samsung player to a receiver (multiples, I'm doing reviews right now) or to the Vizio P65-C1 it works great. From the receiver to the Vizio, it totally fails. Same if I put the HDFury Integral into the signal chain to try to read the EDID, but it just isn't working. So either those devices aren't putting out enough voltage for it to work correctly, or something else. Using the passive 20' Monoprice UltraHD Premium cable (which is used for my projector typically) it works fine. Ordered the Monoprice Cabernet this morning and it will arrive Tuesday, and then I'll see if that works.
> 
> The KeyDigital is failing off the receiver even when using 1080p content from an AppleTV, making me think it's more of a voltage issue from the receiver than an HDMI 2.0 bandwidth issue, but I can't be certain. Checking with the receiver engineer to see what the voltage is and if that could be a possibility. But this is a huge headache for people.


My 30 foot Key Digital cable is spotty at best. I've been quite disappointed with it.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> Unless the CAT-7 cable is a solid core, 24AWG copper cable (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable) I think distance will still be a problem. It will be interesting to see how, and if, Altona certifies HDMI 2.0a with a CAT-7 cable. Fiber optic should work ok and there are some very favorable reviews but keep in mind your bend radius. My guess is that for a lot of setups, the solid core copper is going to be that way to go with some sort of active termination (HDBT for example) and not an "HDMI cable".


When you said bend radius , do you mean fiber optic cable should not have sharp bending like going around the corner ? 

Another question I'd like to ask is for my old monoprice 10.2gps redmere cable. One end is labeled as source the other end is labeled as display . I am wondering if I can use it the other way around like connecting display end to blu Ray player? 

Thanks


----------



## ereed

Roudan said:


> When you said bend radius , do you mean fiber optic cable should not have sharp bending like going around the corner ?
> 
> Another question I'd like to ask is for my old monoprice 10.2gps redmere cable. One end is labeled as source the other end is labeled as display . I am wondering if I can use it the other way around like connecting display end to blu Ray player?
> 
> Thanks


No cable should have sharp bending and that applies to ALL cables. If you need a bend make sure its a large round smooth bend, not 90 degrees. There is a reason end of cable is labled source and display for active cables since signal travels one direction.....means it directional only or it won't work at all. Source end goes to bluray, display end to your tv/projector.


----------



## Roudan

ereed said:


> No cable should have sharp bending and that applies to ALL cables. If you need a bend make sure its a large round smooth bend, not 90 degrees. There is a reason end of cable is labled source and display for active cables since signal travels one direction.....means it directional only or it won't work at all. Source end goes to bluray, display end to your tv/projector.


Thanks ereed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Thanks ereed for answering Roudan's quote of my response. I wasn't around last night.


----------



## fizban11

Ereed,

I also wanted to find someone to test the MP active optical cable at 75'. HOWEVER, As Otto and others have said time and time again in this thread and others, it's the cable description that threw me.

Seems there are two versions of the same HDMI active optical cable, a regular and a CL2 rating (to run behind walls.). Since my wife insists I need to hide the cabling, I will need the CL2 rated cable - but it's description reads the same except for the actual resolution, [email protected] (not 60Hz). Why adding a CL2 rated cable jacket would drop it from 60Hz to 30Hz is beyond me. If it's a typo, they should correct it and get more people to buy the cable. Until they do, I won't waste money trying to test it out.


----------



## Otto Pylot

It could be a simple thing as cost. Adding a fire rated cable jacket to a cable that is tested to certain specs may be more costly to the mfr. I can't imagine that the cost would be prohibitive but who knows. I installed my solid core CAT-6 in a conduit and I don't remember if the cable is CL2/CL3 rated or not. I don't worry about it.


----------



## Ratman

If you get a permit to perform the cable run, then get the cable that's up to code for your municipality, since it will be inspected.
Otherwise, I would get what works and not be overly concerned about CLx ratings. Just be sure you test (dry run) that ANY cable before a permanent 'in-wall' installation.


----------



## ereed

fizban11 said:


> Ereed,
> 
> I also wanted to find someone to test the MP active optical cable at 75'. HOWEVER, As Otto and others have said time and time again in this thread and others, it's the cable description that threw me.
> 
> Seems there are two versions of the same HDMI active optical cable, a regular and a CL2 rating (to run behind walls.). Since my wife insists I need to hide the cabling, I will need the CL2 rated cable - but it's description reads the same except for the actual resolution, [email protected] (not 60Hz). Why adding a CL2 rated cable jacket would drop it from 60Hz to 30Hz is beyond me. If it's a typo, they should correct it and get more people to buy the cable. Until they do, I won't waste money trying to test it out.


Like others said get the one that advertises better spec and run in conduit if its behind walls and forget the fire rated specs. Let us know how it works and if it works.


----------



## fizban11

ereed said:


> Like others said get the one that advertises better spec and run in conduit if its behind walls and forget the fire rated specs. Let us know how it works and if it works.


You don't know me, I don't know you. The advice you just gave is dangerous. I had this discussion with my my local fire department code enforcement (Waco, TX) during the summer of 2015. Long story short, conduit or not, cables run behind drywall MUST be CL rated. If not and a fire does occur, whether the cables are the cause or not, your home insurance company could decide to not cover you. Whether it would uphold in court if the cables are not the cause, is above my head and beyond the code enforcement officer. Additionally, we were told not to run power cables in conduit with other signal carrying cables due to fire hazard and potential interference. For power, it's best to have permanent romex installed. Conduit can be used, but mainly as a convenience factor for cables that may need to be changed out, such as HDMI or data cables. Romex should be tacked down per code. 

We were hit by lightning in April '15 that discharged in the front yard, traveled the coax and power lines to take out almost everything electronic in the house, including appliances and my highly worshiped HT equipment. $100k later, all was replaced, including $40k in new HT equipment for the LVR and MBR. Since we had to replace everything, we went with 4K capable equipment but have had to wait (im)patiently for cables to catch up to technology. The information on MP coming with cables in Feb '17 (fingers crossed) that will be new chip tech is encouraging.

That being said, I noticed you have been asking for several months if someone had tested the non-cl2 rated MP active optical cable. My advice, buy it and test it yourself.


----------



## ereed

fizban11 said:


> You don't know me, I don't know you. The advice you just gave is dangerous. I had this discussion with my my local fire department code enforcement (Waco, TX) during the summer of 2015. Long story short, conduit or not, cables run behind drywall MUST be CL rated. If not and a fire does occur, whether the cables are the cause or not, your home insurance company could decide to not cover you. Whether it would uphold in court if the cables are not the cause, is above my head and beyond the code enforcement officer. Additionally, we were told not to run power cables in conduit with other signal carrying cables due to fire hazard and potential interference. For power, it's best to have permanent romex installed. Conduit can be used, but mainly as a convenience factor for cables that may need to be changed out, such as HDMI or data cables. Romex should be tacked down per code.
> 
> We were hit by lightning in April '15 that discharged in the front yard, traveled the coax and power lines to take out almost everything electronic in the house, including appliances and my highly worshiped HT equipment. $100k later, all was replaced, including $40k in new HT equipment for the LVR and MBR. Since we had to replace everything, we went with 4K capable equipment but have had to wait (im)patiently for cables to catch up to technology. The information on MP coming with cables in Feb '17 (fingers crossed) that will be new chip tech is encouraging.
> 
> That being said, I noticed you have been asking for several months if someone had tested the non-cl2 rated MP active optical cable. My advice, buy it and test it yourself.



I wasn't saying you should never run CL rated cable behind walls. Of course you should get CL rated cable for safety for behind walls but you were stating that CL version doesn't have higher specs as non CL version so I was saying to go that route if you needed the 4K 60hz instead of 30hz CL rated you wanted but use a conduit at least. 

I would buy it but no point since I don't have 4K equipment but asking aound since others have been asking for long 4K60hz cable that works so that was my recommendation based on cable specs since no one has tested it yet. I'm still on 1080p and my 50 foot redmere works just fine for now.

But again 8K will be here in 5 years and they will have different type of cable connnector which is not same as current HDMI and will not work on current equipment and we will be replacing cables all over again. lol


----------



## fizban11

Brought up 8K to my wife and the use of it in Japan: (finger wag, arched eyebrow) - "Not unless we are hit by lightning again or win the lottery." I guess I have five years to work on her! I should have installed the conduit in summer of '15.


----------



## Fahrenheit85

This thread has been a journey for me and my head is spinning. I got a new AVR on the way and while I got everything out I wanna get some new HDMI cables so i'm "4k HDR" ready for when I upgrade TVs. I got stuff that is 10+ years old in my loop right now. So I got a bunch of stuff going into the AVR, only things that do 4K and HDR will be my PC, PS4 Pro, and Xbox One S. Then I just got other stuff like a WiiU and PS3/360 that i'm sure i can get away using whatever cable I find. For the 4k HDR gear, would a active Monoprice Slim cable work? All these cables would like 10feet with maybe the PC needing a 15ft one. Now the bigger question, from my new AVR to my TV, what should I use? Monoprice slim cables go up to 15ft and i'm not sure that will reach. 20/25 is what i'm thinking i'm gonna need. I guess I shouldn't use active cables for both runs?


----------



## Ted99

fizban11 said:


> You don't know me, I don't know you. The advice you just gave is dangerous. I had this discussion with my my local fire department code enforcement (Waco, TX) during the summer of 2015. Long story short, conduit or not, cables run behind drywall MUST be CL rated. If not and a fire does occur, whether the cables are the cause or not, your home insurance company could decide to not cover you. Whether it would uphold in court if the cables are not the cause, is above my head and beyond the code enforcement officer. Additionally, we were told not to run power cables in conduit with other signal carrying cables due to fire hazard and potential interference. For power, it's best to have permanent romex installed. Conduit can be used, but mainly as a convenience factor for cables that may need to be changed out, such as HDMI or data cables. Romex should be tacked down per code.
> 
> We were hit by lightning in April '15 that discharged in the front yard, traveled the coax and power lines to take out almost everything electronic in the house, including appliances and my highly worshiped HT equipment. $100k later, all was replaced, including $40k in new HT equipment for the LVR and MBR. Since we had to replace everything, we went with 4K capable equipment but have had to wait (im)patiently for cables to catch up to technology. The information on MP coming with cables in Feb '17 (fingers crossed) that will be new chip tech is encouraging.
> 
> That being said, I noticed you have been asking for several months if someone had tested the non-cl2 rated MP active optical cable. My advice, buy it and test it yourself.


Excellent story. I purchased a $50 "whole House" surge supressor with a GE label from Home Depot and installed it at my entrance panel. The purpose of this was to give some protection to all of the electronics in the house--everything today has processors (refrigerator, stoves, HVAC, washer, dryer, thermostats) in addition to our home electronics. For my HT area, I also put in a Brick Wall surge blocker as a belt and suspenders solution. Even this may not be full protection for a nearby lightning strike, where all of the house's wiring is inductively charged with a spike. A whole house surge supressor may shunt the spike to ground but the farther the sensitive load is from the panel, the more likely that a spike may reach the sensitive equipment before the shunt at the panel dissipates it all. They are great for strikes to the electrical lines leading to the house but not a sure thing for a nearby strike. For that you need surge supressors very close to the equipment power cords. You also need surge supressors at the point where the coax screws to the equipment. These are in-line devices about the size of M/F adapter. I put them at the point where the DirecTV cables screwed to the splitter. Of course, every time I had a DirecTV service upgrade, the installer would remove them; but I'd put them back as soon as he left.


----------



## Livin

What's the verdict on getting a long run cable that supports 4k? (sorry, this thread is huge and splinters) 

I'm looking for something 35-40 foot

Will monoprice redmere work, or?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Livin said:


> What's the verdict on getting a long run cable that supports 4k? (sorry, this thread is huge and splinters)
> 
> I'm looking for something 35-40 foot
> 
> Will monoprice redmere work, or?


At this point in time, trial and error. The only advantage of Redemere cables is extending the run longer than about 25' without loss of signal. However, the newer video standards are demanding and there is no way to tell how current the chipsets are in an active cable. There are newer chipsets coming out but as to which active cables, and devices for that matter, will have them is very difficult to ascertain. A passive cable may work at that length if the wire gauge is thick (24AWG) but you'll lose flexibility. If your cables are in-wall, and you've installed a conduit, it will be easier to try different cables until you find one that works to your expectations. 

You could try a solid core CAT-6a cable (non-CCS and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then actively terminate it with something like HDBT but that can be pricey and you may encounter the same chipset issues.


----------



## fizban11

Ted99 said:


> Excellent story. I purchased a $50 "whole House" surge supressor with a GE label from Home Depot and installed it at my entrance panel. The purpose of this was to give some protection to all of the electronics in the house--everything today has processors (refrigerator, stoves, HVAC, washer, dryer, thermostats) in addition to our home electronics. For my HT area, I also put in a Brick Wall surge blocker as a belt and suspenders solution. Even this may not be full protection for a nearby lightning strike, where all of the house's wiring is inductively charged with a spike. A whole house surge supressor may shunt the spike to ground but the farther the sensitive load is from the panel, the more likely that a spike may reach the sensitive equipment before the shunt at the panel dissipates it all. They are great for strikes to the electrical lines leading to the house but not a sure thing for a nearby strike. For that you need surge supressors very close to the equipment power cords. You also need surge supressors at the point where the coax screws to the equipment. These are in-line devices about the size of M/F adapter. I put them at the point where the DirecTV cables screwed to the splitter. Of course, every time I had a DirecTV service upgrade, the installer would remove them; but I'd put them back as soon as he left.


Mod: a bit off-topic, sorry. I'll get back to it by the end.

It's a fun story...NOW....It wasn't fun going through the insurance claim, though! LOL! We are all glad it's behind us, now. We have a lightning rod, but it will only dissipate 95-99% of an average 30,000A lightning strike (according to the electrician that came out.) That still leaves 300-1500A (on average), which seemed to find any avenue into the house. There is an internet coax junction box in the corner of our yard that is directly connected to 4 houses, including ours, but then goes back to the line on the power pole behind us. Every house on the block had to have the junction boxes replaced as the metal connectors melted and fused and almost everyone on the block had to have modems and cable boxes/DTV boxes replaced. We didn't have a whole home surge suppressor. Regardless, the electrician said that even had we had one in place, it probably would have blown everything anyway; the strike was just too near (less than 10ft from the attached garage and the main power panel.)

In the HT closet, we installed 2 SnapAV WATTBoxes and made sure the grounds go to the home gorund which goes to the rod clamp outdoors - two 20A closet power plugs running to new and separate 20A breakers in the circuit panel. I also installed coax network cable surge MOV's in-line and a SnapAV Episode 8 battery backup, which is just not robust enough (450W on the battery side) and trips if the LVR B&W speakers are pushed beyond the Marantz AV8802A level 60 volume combined with the Marantz MM8077 7-channel Amp. We never reach the amp max, but the watt max gets hit and if sustained for longer than 15-20 seconds, will trip. I'll need to get a battery backup that covers a full 1800W this spring with the income tax refund, such as this one by WattBox or something equivalent from Tripp-Lite or Cyber Power.

Anyway, back to topic, I have tested at least 10-12, 30-35 ft HDMI cables and none work or work consistently. My wife made me give up till definitive advances in cable tech. In talks with the CEO of MyCableMart, he told me second-hand that, "HDMI LLC have estimated for every “2 additional connections” that is made beyond the normal two, it adds the equivalent of about 6-8ft of HDMI cable." 
Each cable has two connectors, one on each end. This means that if you run a cable from a device (UHD player of Roku 4/Premier/Ultra) into an AVR, then a second cable out from the AVR to the display, just the connectors of the second cable adds resistance, even if you use the smallest possible length. Maybe alebonau can elaborate. Unfortunately, back in summer of '15, I didn't think high-speed HDMI would be problematic for 4K (and it's not if the signal stays @*30Hz* and 4:2:2 chroma) so I decided against conduit, even though the wall was open at the time. Looking back, that was a questionable call and as now it will cost me way too much to open back up, install conduit and have the sheet rock/drywall repaired, textured and painted. I researched and did a lot of things right, but that was one I got wrong. Otto Pylot is very active in another forum for cables that we both contribute and I wish I had found his advice earlier.


----------



## Otto Pylot

fizban11 said:


> Looking back, that was a questionable call and as now it will cost me way too much to open back up, install conduit and have the sheet rock/drywall repaired, textured and painted. I researched and did a lot of things right, but that was one I got wrong. Otto Pylot is very active in another forum for cables that we both contribute and I wish I had found his advice earlier.


I had conduit installed in one of walls and the installer was able to do it without opening up the wall, so it is possible to install conduit from the attic space down an inside wall. However, if you have a two-story then that's an entirely different matter.


----------



## Ratman

FWIW...
I ran coax from my attic, two floors down to basement, from basement to behind the TV. Luckily, I had a "clean" drop from top to bottom (no "fire breaks). Two holes. sill plate in the attic, one in baseboard. YMMV. Sometimes you have to think vertical as an option too.


----------



## ereed

fizban11 said:


> [/SIZE]Anyway, back to topic, I have tested at least 10-12, 30-35 ft HDMI cables and none work or work consistently. My wife made me give up till definitive advances in cable tech. In talks with the CEO of MyCableMart, he told me second-hand that, "HDMI LLC have estimated for every “2 additional connections” that is made beyond the normal two, it adds the equivalent of about 6-8ft of HDMI cable."
> Each cable has two connectors, one on each end. This means that if you run a cable from a device (UHD player of Roku 4/Premier/Ultra) into an AVR, then a second cable out from the AVR to the display, just the connectors of the second cable adds resistance, even if you use the smallest possible length. Maybe alebonnoue can elaborate. Unfortunately, back in summer of '15, I didn't think high-speed HDMI would be problematic for 4K (and it's not if the signal stays @*30Hz* and 4:2:2 chroma) so I decided against conduit, even though the wall was open at the time. Looking back, that was a questionable call and as now it will cost me way too much to open back up, install conduit and have the sheet rock/drywall repaired, textured and painted. I researched and did a lot of things right, but that was one I got wrong. Otto Pylot is very active in another forum for cables that we both contribute and I wish I had found his advice earlier.


If you can try this..... Run a seperate hdmi cable straight from each source device to the display. May cost more in cables but at least its a straight run and nothing in the middle interferring with the signal. Worst part is changing inputs more often on remote but I'd rather have best possible solution.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> I had conduit installed in one of walls and the installer was able to do it without opening up the wall, so it is possible to install conduit from the attic space down an inside wall. However, if you have a two-story then that's an entirely different matter.


Thanks for the suggestion: the wall studs are vertical with horizontal firebreaks. Straight shot from the closet is 10 feet to the first TV in the LVR on one side of the wall, and 15 feet from the closet to the second TV on the backside of the same wall for the MBR. Unfortunately, of the 7-9 studs in the path, 4 or 5 have power or speaker cables running down them from the attic. So, drilling straight from the closet is dicey at best. Almost guaranteed to hit something. That's why, in my infinite wisdom, we went up, over and down to each location from the closet. Heavy sigh!


----------



## fizban11

ereed said:


> If you can try this..... Run a seperate hdmi cable straight from each source device to the display. May cost more in cables but at least its a straight run and nothing in the middle interferring with the signal. Worst part is changing inputs more often on remote but I'd rather have best possible solution.


The only way to do this without conduit in drilled holes of vertical studs is to run it out of the closet across the baseboard of the floor. Which then becomes my biggest "NO, NO" - my wife she must never see another wire again. Of any kind. Visible. Period. I'll be patient for better chips. In all honesty, the Roku4 gives me 4K - sometimes it shows on the Roku menu to be 4K, sometimes it doesn't, but the TV resolution says it is. Well, not 4K but UHD @ 30Hz. I choose a program that is 4K/UHD and the screen flickers, pauses, then goes to UHD. Close enough for now. Must have patience. Must have patience. Must have patience.


----------



## Ratman

Perhaps an option to consider:
http://www.staples.com/Wiremold-Cor...blipUW2Auh9kylKkQJKkf5qnkR5hLar6lDRoCMxvw_wcB


----------



## Ted99

Ratman said:


> Perhaps an option to consider:
> http://www.staples.com/Wiremold-Cor...blipUW2Auh9kylKkQJKkf5qnkR5hLar6lDRoCMxvw_wcB


I used this, in place of baseboard. Where I didn't need cable carrying capability, I used 1x2 MDF as baseboard painted the same color everywhere else in the room. Gives a minimalist look.


----------



## Ted99

Sewell Direct has just shipped their new 30' HDMI cable that is supposed to pass 18 Gbps. They have a thread (with an AVS discount) in the vendor's section. It does not have a sticker from the HDMI institute certifying that it passed the Ultra certification, but it was low cost enough for me to take a flyer on it. I won't be able to test until the Oppo 203 ships, however.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ted99 said:


> Sewell Direct has just shipped their new 30' HDMI cable that is supposed to pass 18 Gbps. They have a thread (with an AVS discount) in the vendor's section. It does not have a sticker from the HDMI institute certifying that it passed the Ultra certification, but it was low cost enough for me to take a flyer on it. I won't be able to test until the Oppo 203 ships, however.


There was a distributor from Sewell Direct posting here a few months ago. Nice guy but couldn't really answer a direct question. They do not believe in certifying that their cables meet the HDMI Licensing testing program by subscribing to the standardized testing program approved by HDMI Licensing. They felt it was cost prohibitive. Or at least that's the impression. They do have their own in-house testing but how they can guarantee that their cables will reliably pass 18Gbps is not known. Reliability is also dependent on your setup, equipment, etc so all you can do is try and hope for the best.


----------



## ereed

Ted99 said:


> Sewell Direct has just shipped their new 30' HDMI cable that is supposed to pass 18 Gbps. They have a thread (with an AVS discount) in the vendor's section. It does not have a sticker from the HDMI institute certifying that it passed the Ultra certification, but it was low cost enough for me to take a flyer on it. I won't be able to test until the Oppo 203 ships, however.


Let us know how it works!


----------



## Fahrenheit85

Ted99 said:


> Sewell Direct has just shipped their new 30' HDMI cable that is supposed to pass 18 Gbps. They have a thread (with an AVS discount) in the vendor's section. It does not have a sticker from the HDMI institute certifying that it passed the Ultra certification, but it was low cost enough for me to take a flyer on it. I won't be able to test until the Oppo 203 ships, however.


Are we talking about the Silverback S6 cable? Would you know if they are active or not? Their site does not say one way or another.


----------



## ereed

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Are we talking about the Silverback S6 cable? Would you know if they are active or not? Their site does not say one way or another.


If you click on 30 foot version Overview it doesn't say so I'm going to assume its passive. But if you click on 50 foot of same cable in the Overview it says it has built in repeater meaning its active. So I'm gonna assume they made 50 feet active and shorter distance is just passive.


----------



## Ted99

ereed said:


> If you click on 30 foot version Overview it doesn't say so I'm going to assume its passive. But if you click on 50 foot of same cable in the Overview it says it has built in repeater meaning its active. So I'm gonna assume they made 50 feet active and shorter distance is just passive.


Will do on the feedback--going to be a delay as I'm holding out for the Oppo 203. With the AVS discount, I am willing to take a flyer on whether it works. With the silverback braid, it's stiffer than an ordinary HDMI cable--about on the order of my BJC Series 1 cable. When I bought two of the BJC 5' FE certified cables, I asked if the Series 1 would pass 18 gbps. The reply from BJC was that they probable would, but part of the HDMI.org certification process was wrapping the cable around a small diameter pipe and the Series 1 cable probably would not survive that process. I would have purchased a 30' (actually would prefer 10m) BJC FE cable, but they don't offer that length, yet. I wonder if the extra shielding on the Sewell Direct Silverback is helping it pass 18 gbps?

The 30' is definitely passive.


----------



## jong1

I have just installed a 35ft Celerity cable between an LG OLED and a Yamaha 2060 and it is working great - absolutely no sync problems or sparkles or start up problems right up to 4K, 4:4:4, 60Hz.

Before it arrived I was worried from the pictures how sturdy it would be and also whether the need to power the display end from the TV's USB port would lead to startup issues, but I have had no problems at all and the kit is exceptionally well engineered - the HDMI-Optical converters are solidly built and fit securely to the optical cable.

I was considering leaving a conventional HDMI cable, that worked up to 9Gbps (so OK for UHD Blu-ray up to 8-bit) in the wall as a fallback, but having seen the Celerity I'm now happy to remove the old HDMI.

Of course, experience can vary depending on display and source devices, but I would definitely recommend trying the Celerity for longer cable runs.


----------



## ereed

jong1 said:


> I have just installed a 35ft Celerity cable between an LG OLED and a Yamaha 2060 and it is working great - absolutely no sync problems or sparkles or start up problems right up to 4K, 4:4:4, 60Hz.
> 
> Before it arrived I was worried from the pictures how sturdy it would be and also whether the need to power the display end from the TV's USB port would lead to startup issues, but I have had no problems at all and the kit is exceptionally well engineered - the HDMI-Optical converters are solidly built and fit securely to the optical cable.
> 
> I was considering leaving a conventional HDMI cable, that worked up to 9Gbps (so OK for UHD Blu-ray up to 8-bit) in the wall as a fallback, but having seen the Celerity I'm now happy to remove the old HDMI.
> 
> Of course, experience can vary depending on display and source devices, but I would definitely recommend trying the Celerity for longer cable runs.


Glad it works for you and your system. Does the color or anything look different compared to your older hdmi cable you removed or was it just a matter of it working just for 4K at the length?


----------



## jong1

Well it means I can turn off the Yamaha "Mode 2", "compatibility" mode that limits 4K to 9Gbps, so 8-bit. Now I get 10-bit and BT.2020.

Other than that picture quality is identical. Also identical to a short HDMI cable from the same source.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ the HDMI cable itself will have no effect at all on color fidelity. Either you get the signal correctly or you don't. A better cable will not make the color any better, or worse.


----------



## ereed

A little off topic here......I know I'm not running 4K yet but how do you guys tell what bit color, fps, etc you're using and all? I know I have my panny bdt500 set as 4:4:4 and deep color as auto and have my sony45es projector set as rec709 color gamma 2.2. I know its 1080P but how do I get menu or display like some of you guys to test the fps or that tells me what exactly I'm getting? And how to do it? Is this coming from the bluray disk itself, the bluray player, or the projector that tells the information? Trying to learn this.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ the HDMI cable itself will have no effect at all on color fidelity. Either you get the signal correctly or you don't. A better cable will not make the color any better, or worse.


Yes, absolutely.


----------



## chickberger

Don't know if thats available in the US but this little box worked wonders for me: http://www.in-akustik.de/en/cables-...es/profi-hdmi-20-repeater-18-gbps-00912004-1/ (costs 80€ in germany)

Tested it with:

Player: PC with GTX 980 Ti,
AV Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2060
Output: LG Oled B6D
Repeater: see above (https://cl.ly/1C3N2I1r182j)

HDMI Cable 1: Kabel Direkt 15m (~50ft) Top Series (some standard amazon cable, nothing fancy or expensive)
HDMI Cable 2: Also standard 1,5m (~5ft) cable

PC -> 50ft cable -> *[ Repeater Input ]* -> *[ Repeater Output ]* -> 5ft cable -> Yamaha RX-A2060 -> 5ft cable -> LG Oled B6D

Resolutions i tested:
https://cl.ly/0t0043251r2j

Since i guess most have a device -> 5ft cable -> av/receiver -> 50ft cable -> repeater input -> repeater output -> 5ft cable -> tv / beamer setup i also tested it and it works the same way. Since my new Beamer is not ready yet i can only test it from xbox one s -> avr -> lg. (https://cl.ly/0t2Z3y0z380A) (its german for "Your TV supports") With the x-box i couldn't test a real [email protected]:4:4/8bit but it should work the same as the other setup.

The 50ft cable without repeater stopped working at [email protected]

It's really a pain in the ass when it comes to long hdmi cables so i hope it helped someone. 

Personally i have to go 50ft from my PC to the AVR and then 40ft back to the projector. I haven't tested the full flow yet (need a second repeater) but i can't say why it should not work since i have tested both directions now. (assuming the AVR just deploys a fresh signal?)

Best,
mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

90', if I correctly understand your setup, is really pushing it. If the cable combination works then you are very lucky. The more "breaks" you have in your connection the more likely you are to have an issue. Solid core CAT-6a cable (non-CCS and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) may be more reliable but you will need to terminate it with some sort of active termination like HDBT. Even then, at your distance that's going to be difficult.


----------



## chickberger

The question is: If i go with a 5m cable into my AVR and go out with a 3m cable. Do i have a 8m signal and my AVR is just acting like a repeater or is the AVR outputting a fresh signal? If it's a fresh signal i should have no problem, otherwise you are rights it's gonna be difficult.

Because like i said both ways work great, question is if they work combined. I will find out on Tuesday with my second repeater.  Will report back.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Your total signal path would be 8m. It doesn't "start over" just because you have the receiver in between. The receiver can act as a power source if you are using an active cable from point A to point B. In that case the receiver, point B, would be the "tv" side of the active cable. Repeaters do work but anytime you add something to the signal path, you run the risk of affecting the signal. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is pushing cable technology in a lot of cases so anything that affects that signal could have a detrimental effect. Let us know how it works.


----------



## Roudan

If I go with 25ft, which cable has been tested by our members that it should pass 18gbps? what about blue jeans series 1 25ft? 

2ns question is: if both 25ft and 6ft can pass 18gbps, I am assuming the picture quality should be the same ? Am I right ? Or does 25ft have more signal loss than 6ft so 6ft would be better ? Thanks


----------



## jong1

Roudan said:


> If I go with 25ft, which cable has been tested by our members that it should pass 18gbps? what about blue jeans series 1 25ft?
> 
> 2ns question is: if both 25ft and 6ft can pass 18gbps, I am assuming the picture quality should be the same ? Am I right ? Or does 25ft have more signal loss than 6ft so 6ft would be better ? Thanks


You should talk to Blue Jeans first. When I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago they said they had no premium certified cable >15ft and even high speed rating stopped at 25ft. Unless things have changed very recently you will be lucky to get 18Gbps. You may be able to use an HD Fury to just remove 4:4:4 60Hz and get it to work for other modes or, of course, you might get lucky but.....

On your 2nd Q, HDMI is digital so if the cable works for the video you are showing quality will be identical. A cable that is not quite there, though, may show errors, usually in the form of "sparkles" or flashes of noise. It won't effect the PQ of "good" pixels though, if that makes sense!


----------



## alebonau

Roudan said:


> If I go with 25ft, which cable has been tested by our members that it should pass 18gbps? what about blue jeans series 1 25ft?
> 
> 2ns question is: if both 25ft and 6ft can pass 18gbps, I am assuming the picture quality should be the same ? Am I right ? Or does 25ft have more signal loss than 6ft so 6ft would be better ? Thanks


I dont know about 18GBps because I doubt anyone is testing with a rate meter. however if its uhd blu-ray please click on the first post in this thread and can confirm with the cable I am using 10m/32ft have now used it for months and with 30 or so uhd blu-rays that have put through it have not had one issue. 

as per the initial post its not just the cable but the interconnecting gear that are variables so hence while what I have works in my situation with my gear there are no guarantees it will work with other equipment combinations. I know atleast 3 others now using exact same cable as mine and same/similar equipment combos that are also working.


----------



## jong1

alebonau said:


> I dont know about 18GBps because I doubt anyone is testing with a rate meter. however if its uhd blu-ray please click on the first post in this thread and can confirm with the cable I am using 10m/32ft have now used it for months and with 30 or so uhd blu-rays that have put through it have not had one issue.
> 
> as per the initial post its not just the cable but the interconnecting gear that are variables so hence while what I have works in my situation with my gear there are no guarantees it will work with other equipment combinations. I know atleast 3 others now using exact same cable as mine and same/similar equipment combos that are also working.


You don't need a rate meter. You just need to output an 8-bit 50Hz or 60Hz video in RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 or a 50Hz or 60Hz 12-bit video in 4:2:2.










The former is easy. Any old 60Hz video upscaled to 2160p will do, provided your player is set to output in RGB/4:4:4. Trouble is almost all UHD Blu-rays are exclusively 24Hz, which, as you can see, never hits the maximum bitrate.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> If I go with 25ft, which cable has been tested by our members that it should pass 18gbps? what about blue jeans series 1 25ft?
> 
> 2ns question is: if both 25ft and 6ft can pass 18gbps, I am assuming the picture quality should be the same ? Am I right ? Or does 25ft have more signal loss than 6ft so 6ft would be better ? Thanks


The shortest signal path is always the best. You either get the signal without errors or you don't. There is no difference in pq. A cable that is advertised to "pass 18Gbps" should always be taken with a grain of salt because one, you don't know how that was determined (laid out straight as an arrow) and two, has each length being offered been tested, or was it just the shortest cable offered and that "test" result transferred to the rest of the cable lengths.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> The shortest signal path is always the best. You either get the signal without errors or you don't. There is no difference in pq. A cable that is advertised to "pass 18Gbps" should always be taken with a grain of salt because one, you don't know how that was determined (laid out straight as an arrow) and two, has each length being offered been tested, or was it just the shortest cable offered and that "test" result transferred to the rest of the cable lengths.


Thanks Otto. I decided to change the cabling path so the cable can be 25ft, reduced from 40ft. I just ordered blue jeans series 1 25ft . They said 25ft should work. Do you have any experience in blue jeans series 1 25ft? Thx


----------



## jong1

Roudan said:


> Thanks Otto. I decided to change the cabling path so the cable can be 25ft, reduced from 40ft. I just ordered blue jeans series 1 25ft . They said 25ft should work. Do you have any experience in blue jeans series 1 25ft? Thx


I'm honestly surprised they said that, because they specifically said in an email on 29th Sept that they have no premium certified cables over 15ft and their web site still says the same. But hopefully you are lucky! Just be sure to test with 8-bit 60Hz video in Rgb or 4:4:4 mode.

Don't use 10-bit material because, as you can see from the table above 10-bit, ironically, forces chroma subsampling to stay in spec and so reduces the bitrate.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Thanks Otto. I decided to change the cabling path so the cable can be 25ft, reduced from 40ft. I just ordered blue jeans series 1 25ft . They said 25ft should work. Do you have any experience in blue jeans series 1 25ft? Thx


I've used BJC cables in the past (as well as MediaBridge) and they both worked as expected. However, the runs were under 25' and I was only pushing 1080p. Both make very good cables. BJC does have certified cables and I think they are certified by an ATC but you'd have to check their website.


----------



## ereed

jong1 said:


> I'm honestly surprised they said that, because they specifically said in an email on 29th Sept that they have no premium certified cables over 15ft and their web site still says the same. But hopefully you are lucky! Just be sure to test with 8-bit 60Hz video in Rgb or 4:4:4 mode.
> 
> Don't use 10-bit material because, as you can see from the table above 10-bit, ironically, forces chroma subsampling to stay in spec and so reduces the bitrate.


I asked this question before and no one responded. How do you test bits or see the bit rate or if its 25 or 60hz video? I'm using bluray player to projector only, not PC video card.


----------



## Roudan

jong1 said:


> I'm honestly surprised they said that, because they specifically said in an email on 29th Sept that they have no premium certified cables over 15ft and their web site still says the same. But hopefully you are lucky! Just be sure to test with 8-bit 60Hz video in Rgb or 4:4:4 mode.
> 
> Don't use 10-bit material because, as you can see from the table above 10-bit, ironically, forces chroma subsampling to stay in spec and so reduces the bitrate.





Otto Pylot said:


> I've used BJC cables in the past (as well as MediaBridge) and they both worked as expected. However, the runs were under 25' and I was only pushing 1080p. Both make very good cables. BJC does have certified cables and I think they are certified by an ATC but you'd have to check their website.


I will let you know the result next week, maybe by Thursday when I will get two cables, 25ft blue jeans series 1 and 40ft Sewell s6.


----------



## jong1

ereed said:


> I asked this question before and no one responded. How do you test bits or see the bit rate or if its 25 or 60hz video? I'm using bluray player to projector only, not PC video card.


There's no one answer to that. The table I posted earlier will tell you the bitrate for any video mode. You need to get the video mode (resolution, frame rate, bitdepth and subsampling) from one or other of the devices in your chain or, sometimes, a combo.

So, maybe you are playing what you know to be an 8-bit 60 Hz video upscaled to 2160p and your player is in RGB mode, then you know you have a 17.8Gbps bitrate. Of course, it's better if some devices in the chain can confirm some or all that info. Often your display will at least tell you the resolution of the source and the frame rate, or your AVR may tell you, or maybe the player? It varies.

But it isn't always possible to get all that info 'live', e.g. bitdepth or subsampling. Then you need to check and double check your clip and what your player does with it, to fill in the gaps.


----------



## Dws6

jong1 said:


> You should talk to Blue Jeans first. When I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago they said they had no premium certified cable >15ft and even high speed rating stopped at 25ft. Unless things have changed very recently you will be lucky to get 18Gbps. You may be able to use an HD Fury to just remove 4:4:4 60Hz and get it to work for other modes or, of course, you might get lucky but.....
> 
> 
> 
> On your 2nd Q, HDMI is digital so if the cable works for the video you are showing quality will be identical. A cable that is not quite there, though, may show errors, usually in the form of "sparkles" or flashes of noise. It won't effect the PQ of "good" pixels though, if that makes sense!




Although BJC series 1 are 23.5awg which is thicker wire then most. I too wonder if their cable would work. They make good stuff. If it's a high speed cable then it would pass the 18gbs at least on short distance. The certification will only be for the length tested and certified so it's really worthless anyway as I don't think anyone is certifying a 30' cable are they?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dws6 said:


> Although BJC series 1 are 23.5awg which is thicker wire then most. I too wonder if their cable would work. They make good stuff. If it's a high speed cable then it would pass the 18gbs at least on short distance. The certification will only be for the length tested and certified so it's really worthless anyway as I don't think anyone is certifying a 30' cable are they?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The AWG and distance are the critical factors so far. 24AWG and under 25' are what seems to be the most reliable. Certification via a standardized protocol (ATC) is important because at least the consumer knows that rigid testing has been done to ensure reliability and consistency, and the certification should be for the length purchased. A lot of clever cable mfrs will say their cables are certified but you don't know how they certify, or certified at a length they know should work (i.e. under 25') but then "transfer" that certification to longer lengths.


----------



## Dws6

Otto Pylot said:


> The AWG and distance are the critical factors so far. 24AWG and under 25' are what seems to be the most reliable. Certification via a standardized protocol (ATC) is important because at least the consumer knows that rigid testing has been done to ensure reliability and consistency, and the certification should be for the length purchased. A lot of clever cable mfrs will say their cables are certified but you don't know how they certify, or certified at a length they know should work (i.e. under 25') but then "transfer" that certification to longer lengths.




Exactly my point and I agree with you. There doesn't seem to be any reliability in these certs anyway. Most certified cables are failing to pass standard "high speed" protocol. I guess all I'm saying is that I don't trust the certifications so no point in buying a cable with one. BJC doesn't certify over the 15' or whatever length they had ( dont remember) but they use high quality materials so I think there is a good chance it might work. I wish there was some here that could verify 25'+


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jong1

We're talking long lengths here but, given the number of quality _1M_ high-speed certified cables I've had fail @18Gbps, that speed is really hard at any distance. Until there is some tech advance (eg. A new active chipset) I would not even bother trying to test 25ft+ cables at that speed. You could go on forever. Not to say you couldn't find one, just no cable from anyone is going to be guaranteed and, in fact, the probability of it working is very low.

Fiber optic seems to be the way to go, at the moment, for those distances.


----------



## Ted99

Dws6 said:


> Exactly my point and I agree with you. There doesn't seem to be any reliability in these certs anyway. Most certified cables are failing to pass standard "high speed" protocol. I guess all I'm saying is that I don't trust the certifications so no point in buying a cable with one. BJC doesn't certify over the 15' or whatever length they had ( dont remember) but they use high quality materials so I think there is a good chance it might work. I wish there was some here that could verify 25'+
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I purchased two of the 5' BJC Series FE (18 gbps certified) cables on first release, I asked if the Series 1 cables would be certified in lengths longer than 15'. The reply was that they would probably pass the speed test because the conductors were larger and the terminations were the same as the series FE, but BJC had no plans to submit them for certification because the HDMI Institute certification process also includes a flexibility test involving repeated wrapping of the cable around a small diameter pipe and that would probably destroy the rather stiff and thick Series 1 cables.


----------



## jong1

Beware of "probably would pass". I have tried 2 different very thick 10M HDMI cables (one passive, one active) from a quality cable company with great customer support, that they were even "confident" (although not sure!) would work. They both failed. 18Gbps seems right at the limits of what is possible electrically over a few meters.

I wish the HDMI spec had allowed for TVs to offer at least an option not to accept RGB/4:4:4 or 4:2:2 12-bit 50/60Hz . 50/60hz @4K could still be sent using 4:2:0, which is how UHD video is encoded anyway. Bringing the max bitrate down to


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. It seems to me that the tv mfrs wowed folks with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz knowing full well that there were going to be distance issues with the current iterations of HDMI cables. However, their drive is to sell tv's and let the consumer figure out how to make it all work. The cable mfrs are playing loose and free with their marketing and claims by using very carefully worded statements. The consumer, as usual, is stuck in the middle with a nice shiny new state of the art tv that they can't use to its fullest potential so they end up paying for technology that is hit and miss. There are those who have no problems so the tv/cable industry can point to that and say "see, our tv's/cable's do work", so again, the consumer gets screwed.


----------



## jong1

Honestly, for 95% of people what is even the point of upsampling 4:2:0 content on Blu-ray at the player end to 4:4:4? Especially as we are only talking about 8-bit 50/60Hz stuff, which is mostly less critical anyway. Just wasted bandwidth and a lot of grief. Only "computer work" and gaming will arguably benefit.

Not saying it shouldn't be an option, but at the moment many devices default to the "best possible" video mode and some don't even have options for the less strenuous but just as good (given the source material) ones. It's daft!


----------



## Dws6

Ted99 said:


> When I purchased two of the 5' BJC Series FE (18 gbps certified) cables on first release, I asked if the Series 1 cables would be certified in lengths longer than 15'. The reply was that they would probably pass the speed test because the conductors were larger and the terminations were the same as the series FE, but BJC had no plans to submit them for certification because the HDMI Institute certification process also includes a flexibility test involving repeated wrapping of the cable around a small diameter pipe and that would probably destroy the rather stiff and thick Series 1 cables.




The series 1 cables are certified to 25' per their site. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roudan

jong1 said:


> I'm honestly surprised they said that, because they specifically said in an email on 29th Sept that they have no premium certified cables over 15ft and their web site still says the same. But hopefully you are lucky! Just be sure to test with 8-bit 60Hz video in Rgb or 4:4:4 mode.
> 
> Don't use 10-bit material because, as you can see from the table above 10-bit, ironically, forces chroma subsampling to stay in spec and so reduces the bitrate.





Otto Pylot said:


> I've used BJC cables in the past (as well as MediaBridge) and they both worked as expected. However, the runs were under 25' and I was only pushing 1080p. Both make very good cables. BJC does have certified cables and I think they are certified by an ATC but you'd have to check their website.


Hi Otto and jong1, just want to give you update . I got blue jeans series 1 25ft today . It pass 4k 60 4:4:4 18Gbps. I can either connect Samsung to JVc rs500 directly or pass through Marantz 7702mk2 no problem at all. Also I am using harmony remote so I can switch from Apple TV to Samsung blu Ray player no problem at all. 

The cable can be white or black. I like white because I change cabling path to fit 25ft so I just stick white cable to white ceiling look ok. 

Before buying , I did talk to two staffs in blue jeans . They all said 25ft should work and maybe can push to 30ft. I bought several cables from them before. I trust them so ordered it. Highly recommend it. 

I am very happy. It finally solve my problem. And 4k HDR does look very good .

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ That's great! Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.


----------



## jong1

^^^^ Yes, great news that. Congrats!


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Thanks Otto Pylot for the rant against the industry. It is what I was thinking but could not develop a coherent message. While I have built a backbone for a whole house AV distribution network I think it would be easier to bring peace to the Middle East than to get a centralized audio, video and control system to work smoothly. I plan to run the internet, possibly with the TV option through the house and I am trying to get OTA to work from a single antenna. But control, attached storage and discs player I will keep to each room until the industry gets it act together-if ever. I have enough idiosyncratic screw ups with a single room setup.

The only reason for posting this is to support your well written post and in the silly hope of influencing the industry to make stuff that works together without traps like protected audio paths.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ thanks. FWIW, I have OTA only for our television needs. The antenna is about 30 years, roof mounted (30'AGL) and sends its signals(s) to three tv's (main, bedroom, and garage). Audio/video is excellent and reception is not affected by environmental conditions. I do not record tv so the setup is simple (if I can't watch it the first time I'll probably never watch it ). Besides, most of the time you can stream a show once it's been aired.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Actually, OTA, is giving me the best picture quality I get and five speaker sound. Perhaps it is my 2008 plasma TV at 60HZ native and lately improved signal transmission quality from the major channels, particularly public television. Only the black level of the LG OLED's look better and then I am looking at in store display material selected to make the OLEDs shine.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The main tv is an LG (not 4k). One of the main reasons we purchased the LG when we did is that at the time, LG made one of the best ATSC tuners around. It's been rock solid for a few years now. Discrete 5.1 is as good as the source so we're quite happy. Fortunately for us, we have a direct LOS to the towers and even though they are about 50 miles away, audio and video is always crystal clear. However, I fear we've veered a bit off topic for this thread


----------



## aaranddeeman

Roudan said:


> Hi Otto and jong1, just want to give you update . I got blue jeans series 1 25ft today . It pass 4k 60 4:4:4 18Gbps. I can either connect Samsung to JVc rs500 directly or pass through Marantz 7702mk2 no problem at all. Also I am using harmony remote so I can switch from Apple TV to Samsung blu Ray player no problem at all.
> 
> The cable can be white or black. I like white because I change cabling path to fit 25ft so I just stick white cable to white ceiling look ok.
> 
> Before buying , I did talk to two staffs in blue jeans . They all said 25ft should work and maybe can push to 30ft. I bought several cables from them before. I trust them so ordered it. Highly recommend it.
> 
> I am very happy. It finally solve my problem. And 4k HDR does look very good .
> 
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


That cable must be like a stiff rope. That's another problem.
Why such a long wait for a solid performing optical cable for a reasonable price.


----------



## Roudan

aaranddeeman said:


> That cable must be like a stiff rope. That's another problem.
> Why such a long wait for a solid performing optical cable for a reasonable price.


Yes, that cable is thick, 1/2 inch diameter. You can see the difference from the attached picture for comparison with my old Monoprice redmere cable which is thin. But anyway, it works for 25 ft for 4K60H 4:4:4. I think the easiest way to test is to load DVD into Samsung UHD player, it will upscale DVD into 4K60Hz which is 18Gbps. You can see from the 2nd picture.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ That's great! Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.


Hi Otto,

I just received Sewell S6 40ft Cable, which was claimed to pass 18Gbps in the website. Actually I didn't pass, HDMI1 No input. So it is not working for 40ft for 18Gbps. I will return it and keep using BlueJeans Series 1 25ft.

https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


----------



## ereed

Roudan said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I just received Sewell S6 40ft Cable, which was claimed to pass 18Gbps in the website. Actually I didn't pass, HDMI1 No input. So it is not working for 40ft for 18Gbps. I will return it and keep using BlueJeans Series 1 25ft.
> 
> https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


I don't know much about how repeaters and all work but I wonder if the active 50 foot S6 cable would perform better than passive 40 foot??? We are talking 10 more feet in length with active chipset. Based on my research 50 foot with repeater is like 25 foot passive carrying signal wise. But I could be wrong.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I just received Sewell S6 40ft Cable, which was claimed to pass 18Gbps in the website. Actually I didn't pass, HDMI1 No input. So it is not working for 40ft for 18Gbps. I will return it and keep using BlueJeans Series 1 25ft.
> 
> https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


That's not surprising. There was a person from Sewell who was making all kinds of claims but was a bit evasive on answering a direct question if I remember correctly. He got a few people excited about their cables so they ordered them (which my guess was his intent all along). It appears that your experience is similar to others who ordered Sewell cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I just received Sewell S6 40ft Cable, which was claimed to pass 18Gbps in the website. Actually I didn't pass, HDMI1 No input. So it is not working for 40ft for 18Gbps. I will return it and keep using BlueJeans Series 1 25ft.
> 
> https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-





ereed said:


> I don't know much about how repeaters and all work but I wonder if the active 50 foot S6 cable would perform better than passive 40 foot??? We are talking 10 more feet in length with active chipset. Based on my research 50 foot with repeater is like 25 foot passive carrying signal wise. But I could be wrong.


Depending on the version of chipsets that are used in the active cable or HDMI repeaters you should be able to extend the signal path to 50' with no issues, at least for 1080p. But that's not what people want now. The chipsets for error correction, timing, etc necessary for the magical 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz are just not widely available yet. I don't think you can draw a correlation between a 25' passive and a 50' active because there are just too many variables that can affect the reliability of the signal path.


----------



## ereed

Otto Pylot said:


> Depending on the version of chipsets that are used in the active cable or HDMI repeaters you should be able to extend the signal path to 50' with no issues, at least for 1080p. But that's not what people want now. The chipsets for error correction, timing, etc necessary for the magical 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz are just not widely available yet. I don't think you can draw a correlation between a 25' passive and a 50' active because there are just too many variables that can affect the reliability of the signal path.


Makes sense. I have 50 foot Sewell redmere and it works great but only because I'm still on 1080P. Once I upgrade to 4K in another year or so and if they are still having hdmi issues like today I guess the best thing to do is just move all the equipment close to where projector is and run short hdmi cable and long speaker wires to the speakers. Probably the best solution til they make a GUARANTEE cable.


----------



## ereed

And then I came across this information.....not sure how that changes the whole HDMI game here.
http://www.cepro.com/article/will_supermhl_replace_hdmi


----------



## Ratman

ereed said:


> I guess the best thing to do is just move all the equipment close to where projector is and run short hdmi cable...


I agree. 




> Probably the best solution til they make a GUARANTEE cable.


That will NEVER happen.


----------



## Roudan

ereed said:


> Makes sense. I have 50 foot Sewell redmere and it works great but only because I'm still on 1080P. Once I upgrade to 4K in another year or so and if they are still having hdmi issues like today I guess the best thing to do is just move all the equipment close to where projector is and run short hdmi cable and long speaker wires to the speakers. Probably the best solution til they make a GUARANTEE cable.



Yes the best solution is arranging gears so you can use short cable. For me , the minimum distance was 40ft. Now I reduce it to 25ft. The way I did is to stick or hook the cable onto ceiling so the cable connect projector and Samsung diagnally cross the ceiling so it is visible but since I used white cable so it looks ok. Now I don't need to worry about the cable and starts enjoying 4k HDR. I made some compromise but life is actually better.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ereed said:


> And then I came across this information.....not sure how that changes the whole HDMI game here.
> http://www.cepro.com/article/will_supermhl_replace_hdmi


Yeah, that article has been around for sometime. Sounds a lot like the hype when HDMI was being introduced/updated. However, to take SuperMHL to its fullest advantage the device mfrs need to equip their devices with SuperMHL inputs, otherwise the cables will have to be used in "legacy" mode with capabilities (and issues) similar to current high speed hdmi cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> That will NEVER happen.


Can you guarantee that?


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Can you guarantee that?


Yes. HDMI was never great and cannot be made "great again". 


My suggestion is...
keep your HDMI cable runs as short as possible IMHO. If everyone has problems with 4K, heaven knows how many threads will surface when 8K pokes it's head out of the zipper. :devil:


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Yes. HDMI was never great and cannot be made "great again".
> 
> 
> My suggestion is...
> keep your HDMI cable runs as short as possible IMHO. If everyone has problems with 4K, heaven knows how many threads will surface when 8K pokes it's head out of the zipper. :devil:


:grin:to both of your comments!


----------



## aaranddeeman

ratman said:


> yes. Hdmi was never great and cannot be made "*great again*"


Lol


----------



## ereed

Come on.....lets make HDMI great again! LOL Or the cable manufactures will be going to JAIL!


----------



## Fahrenheit85

Well I can add to this thread! Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI FAIL! Have 4 10ft ones and 3 15ft ones and not a single one will pass 18Gbps. Monoprice Luxe does pass though. I tired the 25ft version and it works fine. I still need a passive 15ft wire that will pass 18Gbps, gonna try amazon basics next


----------



## ac388

Roudan said:


> Yes, that cable is thick, 1/2 inch diameter. You can see the difference from the attached picture for comparison with my old Monoprice redmere cable which is thin. But anyway, it works for 25 ft for 4K60H 4:4:4. I think the easiest way to test is to load DVD into Samsung UHD player, it will upscale DVD into 4K60Hz which is 18Gbps. You can see from the 2nd picture.


I got the same Series 1 HDMI as you do but the older version from 7 years ago(no ethernet). Just wonder if it will work for 4K/60HZ 4:4:4 ???


----------



## Roudan

ac388 said:


> Roudan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that cable is thick, 1/2 inch diameter. You can see the difference from the attached picture for comparison with my old Monoprice redmere cable which is thin. But anyway, it works for 25 ft for 4K60H 4:4:4. I think the easiest way to test is to load DVD into Samsung UHD player, it will upscale DVD into 4K60Hz which is 18Gbps. You can see from the 2nd picture.
> 
> 
> 
> I got the same Series 1 HDMI as you do but the older version from 7 years ago(no ethernet). Just wonder if it will work for 4K/60HZ 4:4:4 ???
Click to expand...

ac388, the best is call blue jeans ask them. Their customer service is excellent .


----------



## wildchild22

I wonder how this monoprice extender will work?
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650

Looks new as there is no reviews.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Well I can add to this thread! Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI FAIL! Have 4 10ft ones and 3 15ft ones and not a single one will pass 18Gbps. Monoprice Luxe does pass though. I tired the 25ft version and it works fine. I still need a passive 15ft wire that will pass 18Gbps, gonna try amazon basics next


So the "Certified Premium" also is non-trustworthy...


----------



## Fahrenheit85

aaranddeeman said:


> So the "Certified Premium" also is non-trustworthy...


Yeah, they claim they are individually tested and certified. Have a fancy QR code you can scan and all. They just don't work. Monoprice Cabernet at 25ft work fine but it's active and I use that to go from the AVR to TV. I know your not suppose to use 2 active cables in 1 run so I need a passive cable for my Source to AVR setup. I can't wait to test the Amazon cable i got coming


----------



## Otto Pylot

As we have been saying all along, even the official Premium High Speed HDMI cables that are certified by an ATC are not 100% guaranteed to meet your needs/expectations. Consumer equipment and setups can have an affect on connectivity with the higher video standards. There are no guarantees.


----------



## Fahrenheit85

Otto Pylot said:


> As we have been saying all along, even the official Premium High Speed HDMI cables that are certified by an ATC are not 100% guaranteed to meet your needs/expectations. Consumer equipment and setups can have an affect on connectivity with the higher video standards. There are no guarantees.


Yeah though in my case with the Monoprice Certified Premium wire it wouldn't even work when the source was plugged directly into the display with them and I had 7 examples of the wire, not a single one worked and that's the best case scenario for them.


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Well I can add to this thread! Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI FAIL! Have 4 10ft ones and 3 15ft ones and not a single one will pass 18Gbps. Monoprice Luxe does pass though. I tired the 25ft version and it works fine. I still need a passive 15ft wire that will pass 18Gbps, gonna try amazon basics next


well this is rather scary to read. however as suggested in the opening post. please supply the context in which have found not to work.

eg what is source component. avr/processor, display and with what source material. this is very important information as we know the context and application seems to have almost as much to do with things as the cable in itself 

please if can fill in the blanks as am sure it could be invaluable for someone else considering the exact same !


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> well this is rather scary to read. however as suggested in the opening post. please supply the context in which have found not to work.
> 
> eg what is source component. avr/processor, display and with what source material. this is very important information as we know the context and application seems to have almost as much to do with things as the cable in itself
> 
> please if can fill in the blanks as am sure it could be invaluable for someone else considering the exact same !


I'm using a Windows PC with a GTX 1080 GPU plugged right into my P65-C1. I go into the nVidia control and set it to 4k/60 and see what color formats I can use. If it only shows 4:2:2 it fails. If it lets me use 4:4:4 then it passes. 

On the plus side the Amazon basic cable passes. So that will be my go to cable in the future


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> I'm using a Windows PC with a GTX 1080 GPU plugged right into my P65-C1. I go into the nVidia control and set it to 4k/60 and see what color formats I can use. If it only shows 4:2:2 it fails. If it lets me use 4:4:4 then it passes.
> 
> On the plus side the Amazon basic cable passes. So that will be my go to cable in the future


ah ok.. please note this thread was specifically for UHD blu-ray and long cables as such. windows pcs and variety of formats that can generate to try pass on a cable wasnt ever the intent 

but good you have listed the context as such as am sure will be of use to those trying similar. however it is quite possible this "premium certified" cable does infact pass quite adequately uhd blu-ray signal as intended. so we are still left wondering and perhaps in some hope....


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> ah ok.. please note this thread was specifically for UHD blu-ray and long cables as such. windows pcs and variety of formats that can generate to try pass on a cable wasnt ever the intent
> 
> but good you have listed the context as such as am sure will be of use to those trying similar. however it is quite possible this "premium certified" cable does infact pass quite adequately uhd blu-ray signal as intended. so we are still left wondering and perhaps in some hope....


I don't think so, regardless of what i'm sending down the wire it still need to be 18gbps to pass my test. UHD HDR also needs 18gbps. I'm testing if the wire will or will not pass 18gbps.


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> I don't think so, regardless of what i'm sending down the wire it still need to be 18gbps to pass my test. UHD HDR also needs 18gbps. I'm testing if the wire will or will not pass 18gbps.


can you test it for uhd blu-ray to confirm ?

rate unfortunately isn't the only stumbling block here. certainly thats been my learning having got over this hurdle (the uhd blu-ray one)


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> can you test it for uhd blu-ray to confirm ?
> 
> rate unfortunately isn't the only stumbling block here. certainly thats been my learning having got over this hurdle (the uhd blu-ray one)


I got a One S and a few HDR movies to watch, was waiting till I got a cable that worked to try it out. Will that work?


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> I got a One S and a few HDR movies to watch, was waiting till I got a cable that worked to try it out. Will that work?


definitely please do try out any uhd blu-rays your might have  will be interesting to see how goes


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> definitely please do try out any uhd blu-rays your might have  will be interesting to see how goes


Well give me till after lunch. The thing is not even plugged in. My AV gear got all taken out for cleaning/upgrading of my setup


----------



## jong1

alebonau said:


> ah ok.. please note this thread was specifically for UHD blu-ray and long cables as such. windows pcs and variety of formats that can generate to try pass on a cable wasnt ever the intent
> 
> but good you have listed the context as such as am sure will be of use to those trying similar. however it is quite possible this "premium certified" cable does infact pass quite adequately uhd blu-ray signal as intended. so we are still left wondering and perhaps in some hope....


not sure I agree with you here. HDMI 2.0 PC GPUs allow you to control more tightly and, at least in theory, know exactly what HDMI 2.0 compatible format you are sending out. This is actually really good for testing cable compatibility.

It is not always clear, for example if a UHD Blu-ray player is outputting 50/60Hz YCbCr/RGB 4:4:4 8-bit (17.8Gbps) or 50/60Hz YCbCr 4:2:0 8-bit (8.9 Gbps). If it's the latter they may think they have a fully compatible cable and they may not.

With a PC the user, if they know what they are doing, they can specify the exact format and hence bitrate. They still cannot exceed the spec of HDMI 2.0.

To be really clear, only 50/60Hz content really tests the cable to the limits of what is needed, and that only in 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 12-bits. Testing with 24Hz UHD Blu-ray, i.e. any movie, is not sufficient.


----------



## alebonau

jong1 said:


> not sure I agree with you here. HDMI 2.0 PC GPUs allow you to control more tightly and, at least in theory, know exactly what HDMI 2.0 compatible format you are sending out. This is actually really good for testing cable compatibility.
> 
> It is not always clear, for example if a UHD Blu-ray player is outputting 50/60Hz YCbCr/RGB 4:4:4 8-bit (17.8Gbps) or 50/60Hz YCbCr 4:2:0 8-bit (8.9 Gbps). If it's the latter they may think they have a fully compatible cable and they may not.
> 
> With a PC the user, if they know what they are doing, they can specify the exact format and hence bitrate. They still cannot exceed the spec of HDMI 2.0.
> 
> To be really clear, only 50/60Hz content really tests the cable to the limits of what is needed, and that only in 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 12-bits. Testing with 24Hz UHD Blu-ray, i.e. any movie, is not sufficient.


sorry no we are specifically talking UHD blu-ray and long cables here. please read the title if unclear. UHD blu-ray is a specific format. We re not talking HTPCs and the wild concoction of capabilities they are capable off.

We want to know cables people are having success with UHD blu-ray and want to know the context(can include player settings if need be) as the context has as much to do with success in my experience


----------



## jong1

Sorry you are wrong. Yes, I understand that the reason for this thread is to be sure UHD Blu-ray will work, but UHD Blu-ray, when transported over an HDMI cable, is NOT a specific (by which I guess you mean a single, special) format.

UHD Blu-ray players can output a whole range of formats depending on the source material, the capabilities of the display and the settings of the player, as defined by the HDMI spec. First and foremost, when testing a cable, you want to know if it can pass the full bitrate of the most challenging HDMI 2.0 material, 18Gbps.










The bitrate depends simply on resolution, framerate, bit depth and chroma subsampling. UHD Blu-ray itself is neither necessary, nor sufficient, as there is nothing unique about it above and beyond a media clip of the same spec and testing with a 24 Hz movie is definitely not testing the cable to the necessary limits.

It is true specific sources and displays, with their own qwerks can add to the complexity. Some may not quite be driving the cable to specification or may not be sensitive enough at the other end. But it all starts with knowing your cable can carry an 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 signal and an HTPC, or a good player that lets you specifically control the video output format, is the way to test that.

If you are worried your player is not 100% compliant then testing with that is obviously vital too, but again you need to be sure about the frame rate and video format, to know you are testing at the limits and any clip that generates that is sufficient.


----------



## BigScreen

While this thread was started on the premise of finding long cables that will work with a UHD Blu-ray player, the challenge is not specifically tied to the UHD Blu-ray format. 

Speed is speed, no matter what format or protocol is being transmitted. The ability of a cable to transmit data at the specified speed is at issue, but it's not the only factor when finding a solution that works.

As has been discussed in the thread HDMI cables that support [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?, there are three factors that come into play:


The transmitting equipment (UHD Blu-ray player, PC, etc.)
The cable
The receiving equipment (TV, Projector, Monitor, etc.)
All three can impact your ability to use your equipment to its fullest extent. If the cable is within spec, and the transmitting equipment is putting out a signal on the low side of the tolerance (but within spec), and/or the receiving equipment is on the low side of the tolerance for the incoming signal (but within spec), you may not get a solid 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 signal from end to end. 



If you changed just one of the three, you may get different results. A PC with a video card may put out a stronger signal than the Samsung UHD Blu-ray player. The Panasonic UHD Blu-ray player may put out a stronger signal than the Philips UHD Blu-ray player. A Sony 4K TV might have better sensitivity on its inputs than an Epson projector. There may even be lot-to-lot variations within the same brand and model of cable. All may be within spec, but all it takes is for two or more of the three to be at the low end of the spec and you can run into problems.



All three factors come into play. That's why it's important to list all three when posting whether something worked or not. The thread I linked above is long, but it's full of good information. Like many discussions here on AVS, there's a lot to wade through, but the reward is a much better understanding of the issues at hand if you can make it through.


I stepped into the rabbit hole in November 2015 and got quite an education through reading everything I could find and through trial and error. This is my first post about my results. Multiple posts followed, with more results of my testing.


----------



## alebonau

BigScreen said:


> While this thread was started on the premise of finding long cables that will work with a UHD Blu-ray player, the challenge is not specifically tied to the UHD Blu-ray format.
> 
> Speed is speed, no matter what format or protocol is being transmitted. The ability of a cable to transmit data at the specified speed is at issue, but it's not the only factor when finding a solution that works.
> 
> As has been discussed in the thread HDMI cables that support [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?, *there are three factors that come into play:
> 
> 
> The transmitting equipment (UHD Blu-ray player, PC, etc.)
> The cable
> The receiving equipment (TV, Projector, Monitor, etc.)
> *All three can impact your ability to use your equipment to its fullest extent. If the cable is within spec, and the transmitting equipment is putting out a signal on the low side of the tolerance (but within spec), and/or the receiving equipment is on the low side of the tolerance for the incoming signal (but within spec), you may not get a solid 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 signal from end to end.
> 
> 
> 
> If you changed just one of the three, you may get different results. A PC with a video card may put out a stronger signal than the Samsung UHD Blu-ray player. The Panasonic UHD Blu-ray player may put out a stronger signal than the Philips UHD Blu-ray player. A Sony 4K TV might have better sensitivity on its inputs than an Epson projector. There may even be lot-to-lot variations within the same brand and model of cable. All may be within spec, but all it takes is for two or more of the three to be at the low end of the spec and you can run into problems.
> 
> 
> 
> All three factors come into play. That's why it's important to list all three when posting whether something worked or not. The thread I linked above is long, but it's full of good information. Like many discussions here on AVS, there's a lot to wade through, but the reward is a much better understanding of the issues at hand if you can make it through.
> 
> 
> I stepped into the rabbit hole in November 2015 and got quite an education through reading everything I could find and through trial and error. This is my first post about my results. Multiple posts followed, with more results of my testing.


ys please. that is why in my initial post. if people bother to read it clearly says to post context. the cable the interconnecting equipment. and this thread is purely about uhd blu-ray as source. please keep it to that. If wanting to state specific aspects of uhd blu-ray replay please state as so as part of content it will only help people in that regard.

this thread is not related to htpc replay. I stated that from the outset. 

as per title it is "UHD blu-ray and long hdmi cables - what works ! "

please lets stick to the intent to help those grappling with this issue. while might test things on htpcs or what ever what we want to know is with regards UHD blu-ray


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Well give me till after lunch. The thing is not even plugged in. My AV gear got all taken out for cleaning/upgrading of my setup


no worries look forward to it, this will be of interest to those wanting to see how this long premium certified cables go with uhd-blu-ray


----------



## Livin

Fahrenheit85 said:


> ... I tired the 25ft version and it works fine.


Are you saying the Cabernet 25 foot active cable passes UHD?


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> definitely please do try out any uhd blu-rays your might have  will be interesting to see how goes


Ok, sorry it took so long. I got into doing some drywall work in my man cave and forgot all about you guys. Sorry about that. Testing with the One S, the Cabernet 25 foot active cable passes, the Monoprice Premium non active 15ft and 10ft both FAIL! The only thing I couldn't test was Atmos since the UHD movie I got is not Atmos. Also the Amazon Basic HDMI 18Gbps cable also passes. I ordered a bunch of the amazon cable to wire up my setup when I finish with the remodel. I gotta say this little home theater/man cave update has snow balled way out of control. Wife just told me she doesn't wanna hear it next time she buys a high end pocket book since i'm way over my 3k budget for this fix up. 



jong1 said:


> Sorry you are wrong. Yes, I understand that the reason for this thread is to be sure UHD Blu-ray will work, but UHD Blu-ray, when transported over an HDMI cable, is NOT a specific (by which I guess you mean a single, special) format.
> 
> UHD Blu-ray players can output a whole range of formats depending on the source material, the capabilities of the display and the settings of the player, as defined by the HDMI spec. First and foremost, when testing a cable, you want to know if it can pass the full bitrate of the most challenging HDMI 2.0 material, 18Gbps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bitrate depends simply on resolution, framerate, bit depth and chroma subsampling. UHD Blu-ray itself is neither necessary, nor sufficient, as there is nothing unique about it above and beyond a media clip of the same spec and testing with a 24 Hz movie is definitely not testing the cable to the necessary limits.
> 
> It is true specific sources and displays, with their own qwerks can add to the complexity. Some may not quite be driving the cable to specification or may not be sensitive enough at the other end. But it all starts with knowing your cable can carry an 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 signal and an HTPC, or a good player that lets you specifically control the video output format, is the way to test that.
> 
> If you are worried your player is not 100% compliant then testing with that is obviously vital too, but again you need to be sure about the frame rate and video format, to know you are testing at the limits and any clip that generates that is sufficient.


So my method of testing cables with my PC is valid? 



Livin said:


> Are you saying the Cabernet 25 foot active cable passes UHD?


Yes


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Ok, sorry it took so long. I got into doing some drywall work in my man cave and forgot all about you guys. Sorry about that. Testing with the One S, the Cabernet 25 foot active cable passes, the Monoprice Premium non active 15ft and 10ft both FAIL! The only thing I couldn't test was Atmos since the UHD movie I got is not Atmos. Also the Amazon Basic HDMI 18Gbps cable also passes. I ordered a bunch of the amazon cable to wire up my setup when I finish with the remodel. I gotta say this little home theater/man cave update has snow balled way out of control. Wife just told me she doesn't wanna hear it next time she buys a high end pocket book since i'm way over my 3k budget for this fix up.
> 
> ~


just to clarify FH what are you feeding the oneS to in your Ht/man cave ? is it i.e. what is the other equipment involved ? AVR ? display ? 

so also to clarify how long is the amazon cable ? and which one specifically is it ? that does work ?

and it would seem the cabernet 25 does work in this scenario as well


----------



## jong1

Fahrenheit85 said:


> So my method of testing cables with my PC is valid?


Yes, if you test 50/60Hz 2160p YCbCr or RGB 4:4:4 that is 17.8Gbs and exactly the same as the format a UHD Blu-ray player might decide to use for 2160p 50/60Hz video.

As you can see from the table, though, a UHD player could also use 4:2:0, depending on it's design, the capabilities reported from up the line and it's settings. So just knowing a UHD Player works with such a video is not sufficient to know you have a fully compliant cable unless you also know the precise format being output. Testing with a movie is definitely not sufficient if your player outputs 24 Hz, as that uses a much lower bandwidth.

Now, of course, testing with any one source is no guarantee that that device is not faulty, or indeed better than spec. That would equally be true with a UHD Player. 18Gb/s is so hard I'd want to test with 2 or 3 sources to be really confident either way. But your test is just as valid as a 2160p 50/60Hz 4:4:4 test with any single UHD player and infinitely more valid than just a test with a 24Hz movie, which doesn't test the limits of what a UHD Blu-ray Player might wish to send.

It'll be more useful to others if you can replicate with another player, which would eliminate a problem with your source. But that would equally be true if you had tested with a single UHD Blu-ray Player. Some Samsung players, for example, have been suspected to output a slightly low powered signal.


----------



## Fahrenheit85

alebonau said:


> just to clarify FH what are you feeding the oneS to in your Ht/man cave ? is it i.e. what is the other equipment involved ? AVR ? display ?
> 
> so also to clarify how long is the amazon cable ? and which one specifically is it ? that does work ?
> 
> and it would seem the cabernet 25 does work in this scenario as well


One S right into the TV, no AVR in the middle. Also tested with my Denon AVR-X6300H in the middle and it had no effect one way or the other



jong1 said:


> Yes, if you test 50/60Hz 2160p YCbCr or RGB 4:4:4 that is 17.8Gbs and exactly the same as the format a UHD Blu-ray player might decide to use for 2160p 50/60Hz video.
> 
> As you can see from the table, though, a UHD player could also use 4:2:0, depending on it's design, the capabilities reported from up the line and it's settings. So just knowing a UHD Player works with such a video is not sufficient to know you have a fully compliant cable unless you also know the precise format being output. Testing with a movie is definitely not sufficient if your player outputs 24 Hz, as that uses a much lower bandwidth.
> 
> Now, of course, testing with any one source is no guarantee that that device is not faulty, or indeed better than spec. That would equally be true with a UHD Player. 18Gb/s is so hard I'd want to test with 2 or 3 sources to be really confident either way. But your test is just as valid as a 2160p 50/60Hz 4:4:4 test with any single UHD player and infinitely more valid than just a test with a 24Hz movie, which doesn't test the limits of what a UHD Blu-ray Player might wish to send.


Good to know


----------



## jong1

Fahrenheit85 said:


> Good to know


You might want to read the extra paragraph I added after your reply. Sorry!


----------



## alebonau

Fahrenheit85 said:


> One S right into the TV, no AVR in the middle. Also tested with my Denon AVR-X6300H in the middle and it had no effect one way or the other
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know


TV brand ? and model ? 

also to clarify how long is the amazon cable ? and which one specifically is it ? that does work ?

these are important things


----------



## Livin

Do you guys think a 50 foot Cabernet active cable would work? 

My run is 25 foot direct, bit more like 40 when through the walls. 50 would give me room for slack and routing


----------



## jong1

I would recommend getting the shortest cable you can possibly get away with. No current active cable will be guaranteed (or even likely) to work @50ft, although you might get lucky.


----------



## fizban11

First off, I'm not trying to start a war. Not my intent.

I have tried about 10-15 HDMI cables between 30ft and 40ft, and nothing has worked...reliably. I have been able to achieve a 3840x2160p signal from my Roku 4 and Roku Ultra to my Samsung UN65JS9500 (mid-2015 model) through my Marantz AV8802A Pre-Pro, but not reliably. I gave up. There was a post in another forum that said at CEDIA this year a person talked to a Monoprice rep that a next-gen active HDMI cable chip was in testing for a target retail date of Feb 2017 to allow for the new HDMI specs to be sent reliably. I'll be patient. I've been patient this long, so a little while longer won't kill me. Besides, it seems I have no choice but to wait.

However, I am going to throw this out there. The UHD Blu-ray specs specify 3840x2160 10-bit - NOT 8-bit. See article here. The specs for both devices, distribution (streaming services) and Content Master are listed near the bottom of the article. Notice on these specs, there is NO mention of 60Hz vs 24Hz and NO mention of chroma. BT.2020 is shown, but according to Wiki (maybia), BT.2020 can be any progressive frame rate from 23.976p to 120p. This article and reference to wiki may be incomplete, but that's what is listed.

I believe this is why so many cables are failing:

Stay with me, I'm trying not to ramble. According to the bandwidth calculator here from Kramer, until you get to 60Hz (keeping at 8-bit), the HDMI cables should be easily passing the signal. 60Hz at 8-bit comes out to 17.82Gbps, total bandwidth, with 24Hz-10bit and 30Hz-10bit at 8.55 total Gbps and 10.69 total Gbps, respectively. Change that to 60Hz 10-bit (per UHD Alliance specs) it jumps to 21.38Gbps total bandwidth. 10-bit is required for HDR10, not to mention that Dolby Vision will require a 12-bit signal, which would jump to 24.95Gbps total bandwidth. So, keeping with the intent of this forum (UHD blu-ray), if the movie is 24Hz (as most are encoded at this time) even as a 10-bit signal, it should work.

So, HDMI 2.0 can be an 8-bit signal. However, 2.0a (which includes HDR and therefore must be a minimum 10-bit signal as required by the UHD Alliance specs) exceeds the cable bandwidth of 18Gbps that everyone seems to be hitting when a 60Hz signal. Both my TV and Pre-Pro received an update to allow for HDR content. The Roku 4 doesn't support HDR but does support 10-bit signals. The Roku Ultra supports both. Trying either 10-bit signal is when my devices choke. So, what's going on?

This is where I think the problem begins. I wrote and discussed HDR and 10-bit with Marantz tech support last week. What I learned was both shocking and disturbing. It seems that Marantz is blaming Samsung for the issue, though Marantz did admit they are having issues with passing HDR, even though their firmware update was supposed to allow for HDR content. Marantz said that when the Samsung is in UHD color mode ON for any individual HDMI port, it changes the EDID of the TV, specifically, it adds information that the Marantz can no longer identify. Their fix for now, *I kid you not*: turn off the UHD color mode for the HDMI port. This of course, defeats the purpose of having HDR updates to allow for the content. Therefore, IF your equipment has received an update to allow for HDR and the minimum UHD specs, by definition, it's now a 10-bit signal and will most likely exceed the 18Gbps ceiling that most cables are guaranteeing if you are pushing a 60Hz signal.

So, who's to blame? Marantz for not being able to decipher the EDID when UHD color mode is enabled on the Samsung, or Samsung for changing the EDID? I don't care. As a consumer (and a parent!) I don't care which child started the argument. It just needs to be settled and fixed. It begs the question: is this happening with other brands, as well?

I'm just a humble consumer with a science degree (with a firm background in physics, stat and engineering calculus.) However, I am NOT an Electrical Engineer. Since Alebonau had stated his degree, maybe he can expand on this. Such as, why do passive cables shorter than 20' tend to work, no matter the equipment, no matter frame rate and 10-bit signal? Why do most active cables fail over 20' for this?


----------



## jong1

fizban11 said:


> First off, I'm not trying to start a war. Not my intent.
> 
> I have tried about 10-15 HDMI cables between 30ft and 40ft, and nothing has worked...reliably. I have been able to achieve a 3840x2160p signal from my Roku 4 and Roku Ultra to my Samsung UN65JS9500 (mid-2015 model) through my Marantz AV8802A Pre-Pro, but not reliably. I gave up. There was a post in another forum that said at CEDIA this year a person talked to a Monoprice rep that a next-gen active HDMI cable chip was in testing for a target retail date of Feb 2017 to allow for the new HDMI specs to be sent reliably. I'll be patient. I've been patient this long, so a little while longer won't kill me. Besides, it seems I have no choice but to wait.
> 
> However, I am going to throw this out there. The UHD Blu-ray specs specify 3840x2160 10-bit - NOT 8-bit. See article here. The specs for both devices, distribution (streaming services) and Content Master are listed near the bottom of the article. Notice on these specs, there is NO mention of 60Hz vs 24Hz and NO mention of chroma. BT.2020 is shown, but according to Wiki (maybia), BT.2020 can be any progressive frame rate from 23.976p to 120p. This article and reference to wiki may be incomplete, but that's what is listed.
> 
> I believe this is why so many cables are failing:
> 
> Stay with me, I'm trying not to ramble. According to the bandwidth calculator here from Kramer, until you get to 60Hz (keeping at 8-bit), the HDMI cables should be easily passing the signal. 60Hz at 8-bit comes out to 17.82Gbps, total bandwidth, with 24Hz-10bit and 30Hz-10bit at 8.55 total Gbps and 10.69 total Gbps, respectively. Change that to 60Hz 10-bit (per UHD Alliance specs) it jumps to 21.38Gbps total bandwidth. 10-bit is required for HDR10, not to mention that Dolby Vision will require a 12-bit signal, which would jump to 24.95Gbps total bandwidth. So, keeping with the intent of this forum (UHD blu-ray), if the movie is 24Hz (as most are encoded at this time) even as a 10-bit signal, it should work.


No you are wrong on this. See the table I put up earlier on this page. When sending 50/60Hz 10-bit or 12-bit HDMI 2.0a requires that the player drops down to 4:2:0. 2160p 4:4:4 50/60Hz is not an allowed format. So 17.8Gbps should never be exceeded.


----------



## fizban11

jong1 said:


> No you are wrong on this. See the table I put up earlier on this page. When sending 50/60Hz 10-bit or 12-bit HDMI 2.0a requires that the player drops down to 4:2:0. 2160p 4:4:4 50/60Hz is not an allowed format. So 17.8Gbps should never be exceeded.


Respectfully, I disagree. Again, not trying to start a war. The chart you posted is for HDMI 2.0, NOT 2.0a and was used in a March 9, 2016 article by Frontier Acoustics, LLC, here, titled, "UHD 101: Demystifying 4K, UHD Blu Ray, wide color gamut, HDR, 4:4:4, 18Gbps and the rest!." Under the chart, there is actually a discussion regarding HDR that quotes "Note that there appears to be some confusion about exactly what is supported in the HDMI specification, even among manufacturers and industry participants. Some people we discussed this article said 4:2:0 was supported at 24/25/30, others said that as of 2.0a 4:2:2 was supported at 10 bit."

HDR is only supported as metadata through the HDMI 2.0a spec as shown here at HDMI.org. HDMI 2.0 added BT.2020 (Rec.2020) which allows for any progressive frame rate from 23.976p to 120p, and ANY chroma sub-sampling 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, but HDR requires a 10-bit signal, per UHD alliance specs. So, putting this together, 60p and 4:4:4 and 10-bit is within UHD specs, as would be the combo of UHD 10-bit, 24Hz, 4:2:0/4:2:2. Whether or not content and manufacturers support the 4:4:4 is something else entirely. Regardless, this combo far exceeds the 18Gbps "guarantee" of most HDMI cables. I've been told this is due to adding extra resistance from the extra connection points of using two cables, one from the device to the Pre-Pro, and then another out from the Pre-Pro to the TV. This was second-had info from the CEO of MyCableMart quoting a conversation he had with engineers at HDMI.org. Don't know, don't care. For me, either it works as stated, or it doesn't. 

That being said, I know that the AV8802A from Marantz and my Samsung UN65JS9500 received firmware updates to support HDR10 this year. This leads to the only conclusion that to do so, since HDR is 2.0a spec, the firmware had to upgrade the firmware of the HDMI ports of the devices to support 2.0a. However, running straight to the TV across the floor with a passive 12' high speed HDMI cable worked. Using any Redmere-chipped HDMI cable beyond 25' which I need to run through the walls has failed. (My wife made me promise that she never sees another cable again. EVER.) According to Marantz tech support, the fault lies with Samsung allowing UHD color mode to change the EDID signal, which the AV8802A is having trouble. Samsung, of course, blames Marantz.

Hopefully, Monoprice will get the next generation of HDMI active chips out there as planned by Feb 2017. I'm praying this solves the issue.


----------



## jong1

Sorry, 2.0a did not increase the bitrate required at all. It just added the HDR metadata format to the specification. 50/50Hz 10-bit/12-bit HDR uses YCbCr 4:2:0, which is well within 18Gbps.

I accept that the HDMI.org site does not explicitly state the video formats for HDMI 2.0a. However, here is what they say about 2.0b, which clearly says the max bitrate is 18Gbps: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/

Regardless of what formats the UHD Alliance defines (UHD-2 is actually 8K!), what can go over existing cables is defined by the HDMI specification and that is currently capped @18Gbps.


----------



## fizban11

jong1 said:


> Sorry, 2.0a did not increase the bitrate required at all. It just added the HDR metadata format to the specification. 50/50Hz 10-bit/12-bit HDR uses YCbCr 4:2:0, which is well within 18Gbps.
> 
> I accept that the HDMI.org site does not explicitly state the video formats for HDMI 2.0a. However, here is what they say about 2.0b, which clearly says the max bitrate is 18Gbps: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/
> 
> Regardless of what formats the UHD Alliance defines (UHD-2 is actually 8K!), what can go over existing cables is defined by the HDMI specification and that is currently capped @18Gbps.


What is your source for 4:2:0 only for 10/12-bit? I can't seem to find that anywhere. I just wrote HDMI.org and asked how HDR affects total bandwidth and in regards to UHD Alliance specs, which combos are actually supported by HDMI 2.0a. My actual questions were a bit more detailed, but you get the point. Hopefully, they will write back soon. I wrote them once before and they responded within 3 days. It's the weekend, so hopefully by next Friday? If they deign to answer.

EDIT: I also wrote Heather Gioco at UHD Alliance (Press inquiries) to try and get the exact combos that HDR is supported by HDMI.org for UHD specs.


----------



## jong1

fizban11 said:


> What is your source for 4:2:0 only for 10/12-bit? I can't seem to find that anywhere. I just wrote HDMI.org and asked how HDR affects total bandwidth and in regards to UHD Alliance specs, which combos are actually supported by HDMI 2.0a. My actual questions were a bit more detailed, but you get the point. Hopefully, they will write back soon. I wrote them once before and they responded within 3 days. It's the weekend, so hopefully by next Friday? If they deign to answer.


It's just HDMI 2.0a did not need to introduce any new video formats. HDR requires, as you say, 10-bit for HDR10 and 12-bit for Dolby Vision and there are formats for both of those already in HDMI 2.0. Since all commercial content is 4:2:0 anyway there really was no need to add 4:4:4 10/12-bit @ 50/60Hz and require new hardware and new cables. You may remember that most manufacturers were able to add 2.0a support via a firmware update, which would not have been possible if it required a faster bitrate.

And, as you can see, HDMI.org clearly says 2.0b is capped at 18Gbps. Do you think the bitrate went up for 2.0a and has now come down?

I too am really not trying to start a war here, but I think you have misunderstood this and I don't blame you it's all really, really messy!


----------



## fizban11

Messy is an understatement! Just to post this info per UHD Alliance website:

Devices
The UHD Alliance supports various display technologies and consequently, have defined combinations of parameters to ensure a premium experience across a wide range of devices. In order to receive the UHD Alliance Premium Logo,_* the device must meet or exceed the following specifications*_:
• Image Resolution: 3840×2160
• Color Bit Depth: 10-bit signal
• Color Palette (Wide Color Gamut)
• Signal Input: BT.2020 color representation
• Display Reproduction: More than 90% of P3 colors
• High Dynamic Range
• SMPTE ST2084 EOTF
• A combination of peak brightness and black level either:
• More than 1000 nits peak brightness and less than 0.05 nits black level
OR
• More than 540 nits peak brightness and less than 0.0005 nits black level

It's the meets or exceeds that hits me. And this is for devices. Since BT.2020 can by any progressive format from 23.976p to 120p and any chroma of 4:2:0/4:2:2/4:4:4, it's too many variables. When looking at content master or distribution, it also says Minimum 10-bit. More variables.

Now, if all commercially available content is 4:2:0 and nearly all UHD movies are either 24Hz or 60Hz, and given HDR requires a 10-bit signal, it should be well within High-Speed HDMI specs at 11.14Gbps. So, it doesn't explain why the signals won't go beyond 25' nor why so many other cables below 25' feet fail, active or not. That's why I think the EDID blame game between Marantz and Samsung tech support raised my eyebrows. Is it really not bandwidth, but EDID handshaking?


----------



## Otto Pylot

It's probably not just Marantz and Samsung but most other vendors as well. Lack of agreed upon standardization is a big factor among the cable mfrs, the HDMI/HDCP chipset mfrs, and the tv industry. Who, by the way, doesn't care, they just want to sell you the latest and greatest and let the consumer figure out how to make it all work. HDMI.org just comes out with a newly ratified set of standards and the mfrs just do what they want with it, instead of making it compatible by mandate.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> It's probably not just Marantz and Samsung but most other vendors as well. Lack of agreed upon standardization is a big factor among the cable mfrs, the HDMI/HDCP chipset mfrs, and the tv industry. Who, by the way, doesn't care, they just want to sell you the latest and greatest and let the consumer figure out how to make it all work. HDMI.org just comes out with a newly ratified set of standards and the mfrs just do what they want with it, instead of making it compatible by mandate.


Agreed. Given what I have in writing from both tech supports, it makes me wonder if the real issues are EDID standards and not bandwidth, excluding the issues with 60Hz/4:4:4 UHD, which is beyond most cables, especially when factoring in length of the cable. If so, experimenting with cables seems moot. Factoring in the fact that some cables work for some and not for others means there has to be other variables. If the underlying cause is EDID issues, there's nothing any end-consumer can do to fix it at home.


----------



## Otto Pylot

EDID is probably a factor in some cases but an often overlooked component is the copper wire itself. Is it solid copper wire, which is expensive, or CCS (Copper Coated Steel), which is cheaper? Creating a cable that looks really cool with gold plated connectors, fancy jacketing, silver pins (that are oxygen-free), etc etc etc adds to the cost of the cable. Factor in the cost of market-speak, pretty web pages and all of that goes into the cost of the cable. The customer doesn't see the actual wires only the outside which is dazzling. If you look at the specs, quite often they are nothing more than the basic HDMI ratified specs. Sure, they say the cables are tested to 18Gbps but is that 10' in a straight line with some sort of pattern generator at one end or is it rigorously tested under various conditions, and do they test their different lengths or just "carryover" the certification to longer lengths. Getting accurate information out of the mfrs is next to impossible, even the Premium High Speed HDMI cables which are tested to the highest standards are questionable at times.


----------



## alebonau

Can go through hdmi versions and basically from the day they proclaimed there are only two specs i.e. low speed and high speed and their ethernet variants there has been no cable spec change. the only thing come along has been premium certified... and there in indicates the lies that have been going back in cable land.

this is the reason there are SOME older long High speed cables that indeed do work. and a whole bunch of proclaimed high speed 18gbps blah blah that just dont.

thats cables but it isn't just that, it is in the interconnecting equipment. all my gear. sammy uhd player, my marantz 8802 and my jvc x7000 all needed firmware updates. my marantz 8802 needed not just firmware but hardware to take its hdmi 2.0 to 2.0a and hence create the 8802A. the marantz 7702 had to be left behind by the 7702mk2...

this is a new frontier and we dont have all the answers and why its so important for people to know what works and what doesnt  and in doing so sharing not just the cable but the length ...which seems quite a critical factor getting up in the longer cable runs. and then the interconnecting equipment.

eg fizban in the above post of yours you mention a marantz 8802A, a Samsung UN65JS9500 telly, a roku 4 and roku ultra. you havent specified what these 10-15 30-40ft hdmi cables exactly are and I dont see a uhd blu-ray source at all. can you please advice what uh blu-ray source you are using that doesnt work ?

as a note I am not sure the marantz is at fault. I have my marantz 8802A with samsung uhd blu-ray as source feeding a jvcx7000 via a 10m kordz PRS cable and it passes UHD blu-ray


----------



## fizban11

alebonau said:


> Can go through hdmi versions and basically from the day they proclaimed there are only two specs i.e. low speed and high speed and their ethernet variants there has been no cable spec change. the only thing come along has been premium certified... and there in indicates the lies that have been going back in cable land.
> 
> this is the reason there are SOME older long High speed cables that indeed do work. and a whole bunch of proclaimed high speed 18gbps blah blah that just dont.
> 
> thats cables but it isn't just that, it is in the interconnecting equipment. all my gear. sammy uhd player, my marantz 8802 and my jvc x7000 all needed firmware updates. my marantz 8802 needed not just firmware but hardware to take its hdmi 2.0 to 2.0a and hence create the 8802A. the marantz 7702 had to be left behind by the 7702mk2...
> 
> this is a new frontier and we dont have all the answers and why its so important for people to know what works and what doesnt  and in doing so sharing not just the cable but the length ...which seems quite a critical factor getting up in the longer cable runs. and then the interconnecting equipment.
> 
> eg fizban in the above post of yours you mention a marantz 8802A, a Samsung UN65JS9500 telly, a roku 4 and roku ultra. you havent specified what these 10-15 30-40ft hdmi cables exactly are and I dont see a uhd blu-ray source at all. can you please advice what uh blu-ray source you are using that doesnt work ?
> 
> as a note I am not sure the marantz is at fault. I have my marantz 8802A with samsung uhd blu-ray as source feeding a jvcx7000 via a 10m kordz PRS cable and it passes UHD blu-ray


alebonau: Here you go!

Failed Cables (in no particular order)
Binary™ B6 Series Active GripTek™ High Speed HDMI® Cable with Ethernet
10M
7.5M
MyCableMart ELITE High Speed HDMI Cable w/Ethernet 28AWG Redmere PRA1700
35ft
40ft
MyCableMart ELITE High Speed [email protected] HDMI Cable with Ethernet 26AWG PRA1700 (rev.2) (Given by CEO to test on real world equipment) – 35ft
Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable
25ft (tried 4th)
30ft (tried 3rd)
35ft (tried 2nd)
40ft (tried first)
Monoprice Ultra Slim Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 18Gbps 15ft (Summer 2015)
Monoprice Ultra Slim Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 18Gbps #11562 6ft (summer 2015)
Monoprice Ultra Slim Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 18Gbps #13586 6ft (summer 2015)


Passed Cables
Binary™ B6 Series GripTek™ High Speed HDMI® Cable with Ethernet (Passive) 5M
Monoprice Ultra Slim Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 18Gbps – Roku 4 only, no other UHD devices worked
6ft (summer 2016)
3ft (summer 2016)
Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, HDR, 6ft – Black #15428 
Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, HDR, 6ft – White #16118 


Sporadic Cables
MyCableMart ELITE High Speed HDMI Cable w/Ethernet 28AWG Redmere PRA1700
35ft – sometimes it allows for a UHD signal, most days not – Roku 4 and Roku Ultra, Samsung k8500 worked for 24Hz only – did not work for 60Hz test disc I tried from a bootleg source (names removed to protect the guilty bastage) – original purchase, put in-wall before I realized there might be a problem with UHD and HDMI cables – leaving in place until next-gen active chips hit the market

UHD Sources:
Roku 4 – 10-bit setting for UHD (July 2015 - Present
Roku Ultra – 10-bit HDR setting – Oct 2016 – Present
Samsung UBD-K8500 – Ordered August 2016 – sent back since cables are not working
Panasonic DMP-UB900 – Oct 16 2016 – best friend sent it over for a day to try out on my system – cables failed

Displays:
UN55JS9000 Samsung 2015 with HDR upgrade firmware
UN65JS9500 Samsung 2015 with HDR upgrade firmware

Pre-Pro
AV8802A Marantz Pre-Pro (sold as A model, not the board upgrade)

The Pre-Pro to the UN65JS9500 is the shortest distance from the AV closet across the floor (12.5ft) and in-wall (up, over, down) around 10M or so


As to your note: Marantz tech admitted they have issues with HDR and passing 10-bit signals - not my accusation, their own words. IF EDID is the real culprit, who is actually to blame is up in the air. Samsung is blaming Marantz, and Marantz is blaming Samsung. I notice you don't have a Samsung listed, so it would be inappropriate for you to comment on what they may or may not be having problems with. Your JVC projector may not be changing the EDID.


My concern is that IF it is the EDID issue between these particular brands, then some of the cables I tested may actually work, just not with these devices until they can get a handshake on EDID.


----------



## Otto Pylot

fizban11 said:


> My concern is that IF it is the EDID issue between these particular brands, then some of the cables I tested may actually work, just not with these devices until they can get a handshake on EDID.


And that right there is one of the issues we've been mentioning. Not all devices are made the same. It could be the chipsets used, the firmware instructions, etc that are at issue. There's just no way of knowing without trial and error. It's almost as if if one is to use the latest and greatest video technology, one has to upgrade (i.e purchase new) the accompanying devices. This is definitely a no bueno situation but one that was brought up a long time ago when HDMI 2.0 was first ratified and device mfrs were starting to install HDMI 2.0 inputs. That's one of the reasons why I haven't jumped on the 4k/HDR bandwagon yet. I have a very nice and reliable Yamaha receiver but it is not up to the current standards necessary for 4k/UHD. And until all this 4k nonsense gets straightened out, I will keep using my 1080p panel until the time comes that I feel it's necessary to upgrade my HTS. I did that when I bought my tv a few years ago and that strategy has served me well. Sure, I will always be a step behind the latest and greatest video technology but at least I won't the issues and stress that some are facing now with trying to marry slightly older technology with the newest. My strategy is not for everyone, and I thank those of you who are early adopters, because what I'm hearing and learning is going to be very helpful once I take the plunge.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> And that right there is one of the issues we've been mentioning. Not all devices are made the same. It could be the chipsets used, the firmware instructions, etc that are at issue. There's just no way of knowing without trial and error. It's almost as if if one is to use the latest and greatest video technology, one has to upgrade (i.e purchase new) the accompanying devices. This is definitely a no bueno situation but one that was brought up a long time ago when HDMI 2.0 was first ratified and device mfrs were starting to install HDMI 2.0 inputs. That's one of the reasons why I haven't jumped on the 4k/HDR bandwagon yet. I have a very nice and reliable Yamaha receiver but it is not up to the current standards necessary for 4k/UHD. And until all this 4k nonsense gets straightened out, I will keep using my 1080p panel until the time comes that I feel it's necessary to upgrade my HTS. I did that when I bought my tv a few years ago and that strategy has served me well. Sure, I will always be a step behind the latest and greatest video technology but at least I won't the issues and stress that some are facing now with trying to marry slightly older technology with the newest. My strategy is not for everyone, and I thank those of you who are early adopters, because what I'm hearing and learning is going to be very helpful once I take the plunge.


I hear 'ya! I would not be in this mess if it were not for mother nature. I mentioned in the other thread that you and I are active: got hit with a direct lightning strike in April of 2015 which left the plugs and wiring fine, but took out 95% of all electronics in the house. Some got hit from the network line, some got hit from the coax lines, some were power surge casualties. Since it all had to be replaced, I put together what I researched should work together (on paper.) Unfortunately, it seems that Samsung and Marantz are not playing nice together. I LOVE the UN65JS9500 and the AV8802A is awesome beyond my expectations. The B&W speakers are incredible. I just can't get everything to play nice in the pool. It's just very frustrating that Marantz and Samsung are blaming each other instead of coming up with a fix for consumers. Like I tell my kids all the time, I don't care who started it, the argument needs to stop and you need to play nice together.


----------



## alebonau

fizban that is great info ! 

see that is the interesting thing. since with the equipment mentioned I know people with the pana ub900 uhd player, samsung uhd player (myself included), marantz 8802A(myself included) that have these working for uhd blu-ray with long cables. 

however in your equipment combination with the displays involved it doesnt work, putting aside the short hdmi cables (they are really irrelevant in this discussion)

just goes to show....and I agree wiht you edid does have a part to play... its a handshake and if either party is non compliant... literally...

I do hope someone can come along suggest a cable they have found working in your context. or that you end up finding some other cable that does indeed work 

ps I was ready on day one of receiving my sammy 8500 uhd player to send it back too, if couldnt find something in a long cable to work with my combination, thank goodness did. and I do think a good part also due to every piece of my gear receiving hard ware and/or software updates that helped things to point they are


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I don't think you got proper information from Marantz. The AV8802A handles 10 bit signals perfectly, so that is not the culprit. I have a pipeline to the top of Marantz and this is NOT an issue.


----------



## alebonau

Dave Vaughn said:


> I don't think you got proper information from Marantz. The AV8802A handles 10 bit signals perfectly, so that is not the culprit. I have a pipeline to the top of Marantz and this is NOT an issue.


thats is what I tried to suggest earlier, I dont have a pipeline to the top of marantz, however having no problems here either with my marantz, and a I know a few using D+M product without issue either. 

I can only consider its his equipment combo...coupled with cable that is no go...


----------



## SteveH

Dave Vaughn said:


> I don't think you got proper information from Marantz. The AV8802A handles 10 bit signals perfectly, so that is not the culprit. I have a pipeline to the top of Marantz and this is NOT an issue.


You are correct Sir! ^^ 

I sell *a lot* of 8802A's. Many of which are bleeding edge early adopters. I would have heard about this *months *ago in volume. There is absolutely positively nothing wrong with 10 bit signals. With that said, I'm not saying the tech who Marantz hired didn't say what he said. I've gotten my unfair share of wrong answers with tech support on various brands. 

Sometimes you need to climb the ladder before you find someone competent. Of course, *your *contact is the guy who coordinates with vendors and the engineers. Rest assured, your info is accurate.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

SteveH said:


> You are correct Sir! ^^
> 
> I sell *a lot* of 8802A's. Many of which are bleeding edge early adopters. I would have heard about this *months *ago in volume. There is absolutely positively nothing wrong with 10 bit signals. With that said, I'm not saying the tech who Marantz hired didn't say what he said. I've gotten my unfair share of wrong answers with tech support on various brands.
> 
> Sometimes you need to climb the ladder before you find someone competent. Of course, *your *contact is the guy who coordinates with vendors and the engineers. Rest assured, your info is accurate.


Thanks for chiming in Steve!


----------



## fizban11

Dave and Steve, thank you for jumping in. Both of you have a terrific rep. However, please go back and re-read my post #315 . I tried to be very clear, Marantz tech said they are having issues with HDR and passing HDR to tv's with their unit. By nature, if HDR, it MUST be a 10-bit signal for UHD specs. For clarification and hopefully, for Dave to reach out to his Marantz contacts, I will post the entire message string. It would helpful if this issue could be cleared up, whether good or bad info. At this time, I can only go off of what the Marantz tech wrote to me.

*Customer Ryan Dalrymple via Web ** 10/14/2016 08:22 AM * 
Are there any problems in passing HDR10 info through the AV8802A via HDMI to a display?

I am trying to get my brand new Roku Ultra to pass a UHD 4K HDR signal to my TV. However, when I try to switch to the HDR output signal of the Roku Ultra, I get an error message, 
"Your TV reports it does not support HDR." Otherwise, the standard UHD 4K signal from the Roku Ultra is fine through the AV8802A.
- the UHD color mode IS on and I am using HDMI 3 on the OneConnect Box of the Samsung.
Signal pathway: Roku Ultra (3ft MonoPrice Certified Premium High-Speed HDMI cable) to Marantz AV8802A Pre-Pro and out to TV via HDMI Monitor 2 with HDMI cable that has specs to 18gbps.

I have checked and I have the latest firmware for the AV8802A installed.

*Staff Account Islam from Customer Service & Support via Email ** 10/14/2016 04:06 PM* 
Keep in mind there are issues with HDR on the TVs and our units.
If the TVs HDR/UHD Deep color settings are enabled, it changes the TV's EDID information assuming its something different. Can you try with disabling those TV settings. 
Thank You


D+M Group
Customer Service and Support

*Customer Ryan Dalrymple via Web ** 10/14/2016 04:43 PM * 
I am not following you. I am trying to get HDR on my TV. Disabling that setting on the TV would defeat the purpose.

You said for me to keep in mind there are problems with HDR on TV and the Marantz units. Would you please elaborate, tell me the issues and what the possible solution is that Marantz is working on? 

*Staff Account Islam from Customer Service & Support via Email ** 10/17/2016 01:18 PM * 
Hello Ryan,
We noticed when the deep color settings are enabled it adds addtional information to the TVs EDID when its broadcast compared to its original EDID. 
This lies in the TV. But I have no information of firmware updates or resolution as of right now. You may want to try the front AUX HDMI port. *(doesn't this port not support HDCP 2.2?)* 
Thank You
D+M Group
Customer Service and Support


----------



## SteveH

fizban11 said:


> * I tried to be very clear, Marantz tech said they are having issues with HDR and passing HDR to tv's with their unit.*


I read that. I tried to clear as well.  Same with Dave. 

Handshaking, compatibility issues, needed firmware fixes, HDMI wires that vary in bandwidth, etc all make problems incredibly frustrating. The quick fix is disabling deep color. Most people go away after they get the video to display (hence your 2 sentence advice from Marantz via email).


----------



## fizban11

Thanks, Steve. I just wanted to make sure you both understood I did NOT say that Marantz tech said they are having problems with 10-bit signals, just in passing HDR (which must be a 10-bit signal from my research.) From both of your posts, it seemed you both were in agreement Marantz doesn't have a problem passing a 10-bit signal, without HDR. I certainly don't like being someone to pass bad info, or not being clear enough.


----------



## alebonau

fizban11 said:


> Thanks, Steve. I just wanted to make sure you both understood I did NOT say that Marantz tech said they are having problems with 10-bit signals, just in passing HDR (which must be a 10-bit signal from my research.) From both of your posts, it seemed you both were in agreement Marantz doesn't have a problem passing a 10-bit signal, without HDR. I certainly don't like being someone to pass bad info, or not being clear enough.


I have not had and I am not having a problem passing 10bit HDR from uhd blu-ray via my marantz and I know others running 8802A and D+M gear who arent having a problem either. I am a close follower of the 8802A thread here and I dont see anything on marantz plate to work on with regards 10 bit and HDR.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Looking at the quote from Marantz, I think something is being lost in translation. First, Deep Color and HDR and two different animals:

Deep color is a term used to describe a gamut comprising a billion or more colors. The xvYCC, sRGB, and YCbCr color spaces can be used with deep color systems. Deep color supports 30/36/48/64-bit for three RGB colors.

Here's an article on HDR: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2490643,00.asp

Deep Color should definitely be off in the Roku and on your TV. It's not a necessary component of UHD signals. Second, have you tried hooking the Roku up directly to the TV? I don't remember if that was the case or not. If you did, did you get the proper signal? Lastly, I don't think the customer support rep was very clear, but it sounded like he was saying there were issues with the 8802A and YOUR TV model, because I haven't had any issues with 10-bit signals at all. 




fizban11 said:


> Dave and Steve, thank you for jumping in. Both of you have a terrific rep. However, please go back and re-read my post #315 . I tried to be very clear, Marantz tech said they are having issues with HDR and passing HDR to tv's with their unit. By nature, if HDR, it MUST be a 10-bit signal for UHD specs. For clarification and hopefully, for Dave to reach out to his Marantz contacts, I will post the entire message string. It would helpful if this issue could be cleared up, whether good or bad info. At this time, I can only go off of what the Marantz tech wrote to me.
> 
> *Customer Ryan Dalrymple via Web ** 10/14/2016 08:22 AM *
> Are there any problems in passing HDR10 info through the AV8802A via HDMI to a display?
> 
> I am trying to get my brand new Roku Ultra to pass a UHD 4K HDR signal to my TV. However, when I try to switch to the HDR output signal of the Roku Ultra, I get an error message,
> "Your TV reports it does not support HDR." Otherwise, the standard UHD 4K signal from the Roku Ultra is fine through the AV8802A.
> - the UHD color mode IS on and I am using HDMI 3 on the OneConnect Box of the Samsung.
> Signal pathway: Roku Ultra (3ft MonoPrice Certified Premium High-Speed HDMI cable) to Marantz AV8802A Pre-Pro and out to TV via HDMI Monitor 2 with HDMI cable that has specs to 18gbps.
> 
> I have checked and I have the latest firmware for the AV8802A installed.
> 
> *Staff Account Islam from Customer Service & Support via Email ** 10/14/2016 04:06 PM*
> Keep in mind there are issues with HDR on the TVs and our units.
> If the TVs HDR/UHD Deep color settings are enabled, it changes the TV's EDID information assuming its something different. Can you try with disabling those TV settings.
> Thank You
> 
> 
> D+M Group
> Customer Service and Support
> 
> *Customer Ryan Dalrymple via Web ** 10/14/2016 04:43 PM *
> I am not following you. I am trying to get HDR on my TV. Disabling that setting on the TV would defeat the purpose.
> 
> You said for me to keep in mind there are problems with HDR on TV and the Marantz units. Would you please elaborate, tell me the issues and what the possible solution is that Marantz is working on?
> 
> *Staff Account Islam from Customer Service & Support via Email ** 10/17/2016 01:18 PM *
> Hello Ryan,
> We noticed when the deep color settings are enabled it adds addtional information to the TVs EDID when its broadcast compared to its original EDID.
> This lies in the TV. But I have no information of firmware updates or resolution as of right now. You may want to try the front AUX HDMI port. *(doesn't this port not support HDCP 2.2?)*
> Thank You
> D+M Group
> Customer Service and Support


----------



## fizban11

Thanks, alebonau. I agree. I follow and contribute to the AV8802A owner's thread, as well. It's the first I heard of it. All I did was ask a simple question to Marantz tech support and I posted the message string. However, being a trained scientist, just because I haven't seen it or heard of it, does not mean it does or does not exist.

The flip-side of this is not good. Providing the tech support is correct and not a badly trained rep, it begs the questions: how long has Marantz known of this issue, why is there no info or warning of it to owner's and when will Marantz put a fix out?


----------



## gonzalc3

I have a marantz 8802a and a roku ultra, and don't have any issue playing videos with hdr. In particular, I have watched some episodes of Mozart in the jungle and had no issues. The jvc recognized the hdr flag.


----------



## fizban11

Here's a pic of the error message I get. It happens whether UHD color mode for the port is on or off. It happens whether color space on the TV is native or auto. To remove variables, I tried all 4 HDMI ports on the Samsung OneConnect box. Hooking the same cable up directly, the display switches without a problem and no error message. It happens whether the ip scaler is on or off for the AV8802A. It's through the AV8802A that the problem rear's its ugly head.

The firmware for TV and HDR10 (brought the ports to 2.0a specs) happened back in Sept of 2015. There have been at least 2 or 3 firmware updates since then.

From the Samsung tech support e-mail, UHD color mode must be ON for HDR content. Regardless, it happens whether on or off. They, of course, then advised me to contact Marantz or Roku tech support.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Wow. Sure wish there was something we could do but apparently there is something with your setup that is not compatible  

Maybe a reset and then turn on each device one at a time?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

fizban11 said:


> Here's a pic of the error message I get. It happens whether UHD color mode for the port is on or off. It happens whether color space on the TV is native or auto. To remove variables, I tried all 4 HDMI ports on the Samsung OneConnect box. Hooking the same cable up directly, the display switches without a problem and no error message. It happens whether the ip scaler is on or off for the AV8802A. It's through the AV8802A that the problem rear's its ugly head.
> 
> The firmware for TV and HDR10 (brought the ports to 2.0a specs) happened back in Sept of 2015. There have been at least 2 or 3 firmware updates since then.
> 
> From the Samsung tech support e-mail, UHD color mode must be ON for HDR content. Regardless, it happens whether on or off. They, of course, then advised me to contact Marantz or Roku tech support.


Looks like an incompatibility issue between your TV and the Marantz. Chris posted earlier and has no problems with the Roku 4, Marantz, and JVC projector.


----------



## fizban11

Dave Vaughn said:


> Looks like an incompatibility issue between your TV and the Marantz. Chris posted earlier and has no problems with the Roku 4, Marantz, and JVC projector.


Thanks, Dave. I know you are trying to be helpful. Since the Marantz tech support person said "Keep in mind there are issues with HDR on the TVs and our units." - a projector seems to be excluded. I will write Marantz back and ask them to clarify if it's just Samsung TV's or other brands, as well. This started out as a post to bring attention to the fact that Marantz has indicated a problem of HDR between TVs and their units and that specifically, it was pointed out to be and EDID issue. I'm not going to post on it again unless there is a solution or a specific question put on this thread to add to the issue raised.

I mean this in the nicest way (don't read anything more into it): you were very quick to point out that you have a pipeline to Marantz hierarchy. You were very surprised that you didn't know about the issue, so therefore, it can't be a real issue. I can only assume this means that you will use your contacts as a technical writer for the AV industry to reach out and either confirm or dismiss the info the tech rep gave me. Until either that happens, I can only go on the info given to me by Marantz.

I'm sure you can at least agree that IF Marantz (and I assume Denon) are having EDID issues between TV's or certain brands of TV's (affecting HDR), it sure help explain the wide variability of results when trying to find an HDMI cable that works consistently. It would also help to exclude voltage issues between components. That, then begs the question of whether or not EDID is a wide-spread issue that affects other AVR/Pre-pro brands and certain brands of TV's when running through AVR/Pre-Pro's.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

fizban11 said:


> Thanks, Dave. I know you are trying to be helpful. Since the Marantz tech support person said "Keep in mind there are issues with HDR on the TVs and our units." - a projector seems to be excluded. I will write Marantz back and ask them to clarify if it's just Samsung TV's or other brands, as well. This started out as a post to bring attention to the fact that Marantz has indicated a problem of HDR between TVs and their units and that specifically, it was pointed out to be and EDID issue. I'm not going to post on it again unless there is a solution or a specific question put on this thread to add to the issue raised.
> 
> I mean this in the nicest way (don't read anything more into it): you were very quick to point out that you have a pipeline to Marantz hierarchy. You were very surprised that you didn't know about the issue, so therefore, it can't be a real issue. I can only assume this means that you will use your contacts as a technical writer for the AV industry to reach out and either confirm or dismiss the info the tech rep gave me. Until either that happens, I can only go on the info given to me by Marantz.
> 
> I'm sure you can at least agree that IF Marantz (and I assume Denon) are having EDID issues between TV's or certain brands of TV's (affecting HDR), it sure help explain the wide variability of results when trying to find an HDMI cable that works consistently. It would also help to exclude voltage issues between components. That, then begs the question of whether or not EDID is a wide-spread issue that affects other AVR/Pre-pro brands and certain brands of TV's when running through AVR/Pre-Pro's.


I'm not sure what's going on, but Steve came and posted here as well and he's one of Marantz's largest dealers in the USA, if not the world, and has sold a ton of AV8802's. If this was a widespread problem, he'd know about it. Also, I got Chris involved since he has the Roku 4 and Marantz. The only difference is your display. Have you checked the thread on it to see if other's have had this issue?


----------



## alebonau

fizban11 said:


> Here's a pic of the error message I get. It happens whether UHD color mode for the port is on or off. It happens whether color space on the TV is native or auto. To remove variables, I tried all 4 HDMI ports on the Samsung OneConnect box. Hooking the same cable up directly, the display switches without a problem and no error message. It happens whether the ip scaler is on or off for the AV8802A. It's through the AV8802A that the problem rear's its ugly head.
> 
> The firmware for TV and HDR10 (brought the ports to 2.0a specs) happened back in Sept of 2015. There have been at least 2 or 3 firmware updates since then.
> 
> From the Samsung tech support e-mail, UHD color mode must be ON for HDR content. Regardless, it happens whether on or off. They, of course, then advised me to contact Marantz or Roku tech support.


I sure wish could help you. however am sorry but have never seen that menu, it looks like either from your roku or display telling you your "TV does not report HDR support" I sure am not getting that wiht my JVC and have never seen anyone in the marantz thread report anything like it with another display. I am not sure what marantz is supposed to do about it, but I for one would be contacting your tv maker to make sure it actually be setup so can indeed report HDR support ?

did you get the same signal with your UHD players with playing a uhd blu-ray disc ? is this cable related ? do you get the message with some cables and not wiht others ? when you have reported with some cables you got to work does that mean the you didnt get the message ? or do you get the message regardless ?


----------



## fizban11

alebonau said:


> I sure wish could help you. however am sorry but have never seen that menu, it looks like either from your roku or display telling you your "TV does not report HDR support" I sure am not getting that wiht my JVC and have never seen anyone in the marantz thread report anything like it with another display. I am not sure what marantz is supposed to do about it, but I for one would be contacting your tv maker to make sure it actually be setup so can indeed report HDR support ?
> 
> did you get the same signal with your UHD players with playing a uhd blu-ray disc ? is this cable related ? do you get the message with some cables and not wiht others ? when you have reported with some cables you got to work does that mean the you didnt get the message ? or do you get the message regardless ?


The UHD tests were done with ID4 and Amazing Spider-Man 2. Not sure if they had HDR, but I didn't get an error. I have since bought Batman v Superman UHD and it has HDR, but alas, no UHD player at this point. So, as of now, my only UHD HDR source is the RUltra.

As far as other cables, it's moot. Hooking up the RUltra directly to the TV via the same 35ft Elite from MyCableMart does not give an error. Taking the RUltra out of the closet and hooking it directly to a TV HDMI port with the 3ft monoprice Certified Premium High-Speed cable does not give an error. Only when running through the Marantz. Since both cables work, I decided to use a 40ft version of the same cable (since 35+3 = 38.) This would be longer than the one in-wall and directly it worked fine. Through the Marantz, same error. I did contact Samsung, they blamed Marantz and then suggested Roku was to blame. I contacted Roku tonight, but I don't see where this would be their issue. After all, it works fine directly with both cables and with another cable slightly longer than the two combined.

IF what the Marantz tech rep told me is true (I have faith in you, Dave....), then Marantz knows about the issue and should fix it. Or Samsung. Or Roku. Or all three. The only motivation I can see for Marantz not wanting it to get out (i.e. sitting on the info in-house) would be they don't want it to affect the bottom line for sales of the flagship models while they work on a fix. If they are, I can't blame the rep for not knowing. I've worked for a Fortune 200, they don't tell reps anything. Not until they have a plan to deal with the issue they are sitting on.


----------



## alebonau

fizban11 said:


> The UHD tests were done with ID4 and Amazing Spider-Man 2. Not sure if they had HDR, but I didn't get an error. I have since bought Batman v Superman UHD and it has HDR, but alas, no UHD player at this point. So, as of now, my only UHD HDR source is the RUltra.


ID4 and spider man 2 uhd blu-ray both have HDR, as do ALL holywood UHD blu-ray releases. and if didnt get an error it obviously indicates your uhd blu-ray player has worked with your marantz, display and cables involved.



fizban11 said:


> As far as other cables, it's moot. Hooking up the RUltra directly to the TV via the same 35ft Elite from MyCableMart does not give an error. Taking the RUltra out of the closet and hooking it directly to a TV HDMI port with the 3ft monoprice Certified Premium High-Speed cable does not give an error. Only when running through the Marantz. Since both cables work, I decided to use a 40ft version of the same cable (since 35+3 = 38.) This would be longer than the one in-wall and directly it worked fine. Through the Marantz, same error. I did contact Samsung, they blamed Marantz and then suggested Roku was to blame. I contacted Roku tonight, but I don't see where this would be their issue. After all, it works fine directly with both cables and with another cable slightly longer than the two combined.
> 
> IF what the Marantz tech rep told me is true (I have faith in you, Dave....), then Marantz knows about the issue and should fix it. Or Samsung. Or Roku. Or all three. The only motivation I can see for Marantz not wanting it to get out (i.e. sitting on the info in-house) would be they don't want it to affect the bottom line for sales of the flagship models while they work on a fix. If they are, I can't blame the rep for not knowing. I've worked for a Fortune 200, they don't tell reps anything. Not until they have a plan to deal with the issue they are sitting on.


well this thread is obviously about uhd blu-ray and long cables and if you are saying long cables are not a factor and have played uhd blu-ray without any issues/errors then I guess best taking your problem to the roku thread or samsung display thread or marantz thread as much as we might want to help you probably more chance of some answers than here id suggest ?


----------



## jong1

Can I throw out one really obvious suggestion here, that you may have covered earlier, but without reading back pages I can't be sure. Sorry if it's a waste of time:

Is all video processing disabled in the AVR? Is video processing set to "through", or whatever term the Marantz uses. Sometimes this is set for each input. Because if the Marantz is messing with the video stream that could be one really obvious reason for a problem.


----------



## fizban11

I have tried it with i.p. scaler off and i.p. scaler on. No go. Marantz tech in the past had me set to i.p. scaler off and use the HD tuner (and another input choice that escapes me right now), so that the signal is a native 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma UHD signal. This helped prove or disprove cable functionality.


----------



## StephenBishop

Fwiw, and my apologies in advance if I am off topic, I have a problem passing a 4k60p 444 8 bits and 4k60p 422 12 bits signal from my Panny UB900 via the Marantz 8802A to my Sony 5000ES projector. 


No problem passing these signals direct from the Panny UB900 to the Sony 5000ES. Just fyi, its a 6' connection from the Panny to the Marantz (via the Panny supplied 18gbps cable) but a 50' Celerity DFO fibre connection from the Panny/Marantz to the Sony 5000ES. Direct works- via the Marantz 8802A it doesn't.


----------



## fizban11

alebonau said:


> well this thread is obviously about uhd blu-ray and long cables and if you are saying long cables are not a factor and have played uhd blu-ray  without any issues/errors then I guess best taking your problem to the roku thread or samsung display thread or marantz thread as much as we might want to help you probably more chance of some answers than here id suggest ?


Oh, I have posted the HDR issue elsewhere concerning the actual problem. On this thread, I posted all the cables I have tried and the one long-HDMI cable that has worked for me has only worked sporadically, which I clearly noted. Sporadically obviously means failure to work consistently. So, I will continue to monitor this post in hopes of finding a better long-cable solution.

However, I have to say I am a bit disappointed. Numerous times on this thread and others, alebonau, Otto, Dave and Steve have said countless times that it's not just a cable issue, but equipment as well with no proof other than an educated guess. It's been speculated time and again that it's a voltage issue between components, but no concrete proof. Otto was the only one to say my info was what he had been saying for quite some time. 

I brought out into the open the first real proof that it COULD be equipment failures, not just cables, from a credible source (Marantz tech support.) This moves it from the realm of theory to the realm of proof. The next step would be to replicate, in this case, confirm with other sources within Marantz of the existence of this issue. Instead of being happy there possibly could be confirmation of equipment playing a part in all this cable issue mess, I was met with incredulity (I have a pipeline to the top of Marantz...) and skepticism (I sell a lot of these units so I would have heard about it months ago in volume.) This forced me to defend myself and my statement. You guys should have immediately reached out to your contacts to confirm or deny what Marantz tech told me. As I pointed out earlier, a cable failure which is constantly blamed, may have actually been a cable success, but instead an equipment EDID failure, for which there is no way for the overwhelming majority of us consumers to confirm.

I submit this: given the cost, how many Sammy and Panny UHD units have been sold in the USA and how many of them are using Marantz units to pass the signal? Further, how many of those combos are running to a TV instead of a projector? Further, how many $100/$120 Roku Premiere+/Ultra units have been sold in the past month which support HDR, which are 1/5 to 1/6 the cost of the UHD players? Until HDR units, be it UHD players or Roku devices, are showing up in volume in households, whose to say if there is a problem with passing HDR to TV's and Marantz units due to an EDID issue other than tech support? You guys should really have more open minds to problem solving.


----------



## SteveH

alebonau said:


> I sure wish could help you. however am sorry but have never seen that menu, it looks like either from your roku or display telling you your *"TV does not report HDR support" *I sure am not getting that wiht my JVC and have never seen anyone in the marantz thread report anything like it with another display. I am not sure what marantz is supposed to do about it, but I for one would be contacting your tv maker to make sure it actually be setup so can indeed report HDR support ?
> ?


I bet the farm "TV does not support HDR" is a Roku generated warning and not the Marantz. I have *not *observed that before.I has to be a Roku/Marantz/Samsung issue (your era of Samsung). I have a beta tester customer at Roku who has a pipeline directly into engineering. Guess what he is going to have delivered in about 3 days?? Yep, an 8802A. If I remember correctly, he has 100% Samsung sets (all 4K's). He has become an expert on video. In a few days, I will ask him.

As with all brands, there are interactions and quirks with specific permutations. Without question, entering a preamp processor or receiver in the mix (no matter what the brand) adds a level of complexity to the interaction. The processor/receiver does scaling (same with your TV and source), HDCP verification, OSD overlay, etc. Basically a processor/receiver has a more complex job of receiving and then sending the audio. But also it is another layer in which an interaction takes place.

With all of my processor and receiver brands, I have heard "but it works when I hook it up to my TV" *plenty *of times (yet hiccups with their prepro). It was infinitely worse during the HDMI 1.4 era and much much much better in 2016. Back to "it works when I hook it up directly". Well, people cannot get that out of their head and therefore will promptly point to the processor or receiver. Because in their minds, that's the only possible culprit. Many times, when I talk to my customer into dragging a different brand of TV into the room exclusively for a test, the problem, goes away. So I would recommend fizban11 to give that a try (drag over another TV set brand) for another datapoint. Understand these interactions are the outliers and in 2016, rare.


All too often handshaking problems arise with HDCP issues. Death to HDCP, but that aint happening! With HDCP issues, you don't get audio or video or both. 

In this case, it's probably bad EDID info. How it was explained to me is as follows. HDMI is a two-way communication between the source and a TV. So "EDID" (Extended Display Identification Data), is digital communication between the TV, prepro, and source device. It describes the TV's capabilities to the source component as well as the prepro. EDID info typically includes the product type, manufacturer, resolution, and of course color depth. Basically EDID allows a device to talk to each other and therefore they'll actually know whom they're talking to specifically for ease of auto-configuration.

Something in the chain is pooching that EDID. IF Marantz was somehow at fault, I would have heard all kinds of issues and I haven't. Marantz is the # prepro brand and Samsung is one of the largest TV brands. This issue would light up on AVS more than any other site (early adopters asking questions). So that TV experiment will have value to the conversation. The posted OSD added value to the conversation. We were all going down a different rabbit hole until he posted that.

Back in the day, B&K had all kinds of handshaking issues with their prepro's and they could point to other vendors screwing up. In fact, they use to buy an example DVD player, cable cox, or TV to figure out what was going on. I know D&M does that as well. But my educated guess is the tech he spoke with guessed. Let's see what my Roku beta guy experiences.


----------



## fizban11

alebonau said:


> ID4 and spider man 2 uhd blu-ray both have HDR, as do ALL holywood UHD blu-ray releases. and if didnt get an error it obviously indicates your uhd blu-ray player has worked with your marantz, display and cables involved.?


I sent the Sammy UHD player back due to cable failure. I only had a few hours with my buddy's Panny UHD unit, so we ran it direct to the TV rather than through the stereo. 13ft cable worked fine from Binary. Getting these to work with a long HDMI cable through the Marantz is the issue.


----------



## alebonau

fizban11 said:


> I sent the Sammy UHD player back due to cable failure. I only had a few hours with my buddy's Panny UHD unit, so we ran it direct to the TV rather than through the stereo. 13ft cable worked fine from Binary. Getting these to work with a long HDMI cable through the Marantz is the issue.


Long cables are an issue with uhd blu-ray and why this thread exists  but as per post one and from get go of uhd blu-ray I have managed to get a fault free working situation with my marantz in chain, and cable am using to my display.

I do hope you can find something that works as well, though suspect it won't just be cable related in solution


----------



## Dave Vaughn

StephenBishop said:


> Fwiw, and my apologies in advance if I am off topic, I have a problem passing a 4k60p 444 8 bits and 4k60p 422 12 bits signal from my Panny UB900 via the Marantz 8802A to my Sony 5000ES projector.
> 
> 
> No problem passing these signals direct from the Panny UB900 to the Sony 5000ES. Just fyi, its a 6' connection from the Panny to the Marantz (via the Panny supplied 18gbps cable) but a 50' Celerity DFO fibre connection from the Panny/Marantz to the Sony 5000ES. Direct works- via the Marantz 8802A it doesn't.


Are you using USB power on the receiving end of the cable with the Celerity? If so, here's what you should try:

1: Set the Marantz to output 4K with it's internal scaler using a source other than the UB900 (say, TV). Do you get a picture? If so, then it isn't the Celerity cable that's causing the issue. The Marantz 4K upconversion makes cables fail just like the Samsung menu.

2. If you did get a picture with the Marantz set to 4K, switch is back to "no processing" (ip scaler off), and switch out the 6 foot cable that came with the Panasonic...that's most likely the culprit.


----------



## SteveH

fizban11 said:


> However, I have to say I am a bit disappointed. Numerous times on this thread and others, alebonau, Otto, Dave and Steve have said countless times that it's not just a cable issue, but equipment as well with no proof other than an educated guess. It's been speculated time and again that it's a voltage issue between components, but no concrete proof. Otto was the only one to say my info was what he had been saying for quite some time.


They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  The posted picture of the error message early on would have taken people down different paths and a lot of words would have been spared. I tried to explain that a tech support email doesn't mean proof. I got the feeling you want to believe what you want to believe and that you have a problem with the 8802A so I posted my experience. Way too often tech support inaccurately assumes the unit is defective and my customer assumes it is. With patience and experiments, all of a sudden it's fixed. To keep overhead in check (and your pricing reasonable for the unit), they have different levels of expertise to handle the sheer email and call volumes. So not all techs are created equal. 



fizban11 said:


> I was met with incredulity (I have a pipeline to the top of Marantz...) and skepticism (I sell a lot of these units so I would have heard about it months ago in volume.) This forced me to defend myself and my statement.* You guys should have immediately reached out to your contacts to confirm or deny what Marantz tech told me.* As I pointed out earlier, a cable failure which is constantly blamed, may have actually been a cable success, but instead an equipment EDID failure, for which there is no way for the overwhelming majority of us consumers to confirm.


It's the weekend and no one is going to call or email anyone. Dave was just trying to help. It's not his job to "immediately reach out..." You were using the word "10 bit" issues and that is what he was honing in on. That was his point. With the picture you posted, I had a better idea what you were talking about.

I'll find out what happens with the 8802A, new Roku, and Samsung TV's in a about 3 days when my customer (who is a Roku beta tester with engineering contacts) new toy arrives. If a original Roku4 works and this one doesn't even if it works directly to his Samsung TV, that sort of points to the new Roku in _my _mind or certainly a very specific permutation of equipment. In the meantime, I will graciously bow out of the conversation and won't post in fear of being accused of not having an open mind or inept in trouble shooting. I wish you the best!


----------



## jong1

Sorry for what may be another dead end question but, just to be sure. The Marantz does not have any 4K "compatibility mode" designed to work with older cables? Because if this was my Yamaha I would know exactly what the problem is. The Yamaha has an "advanced setup" option, where you choose between "4K Mode 1" or "4K Mode 2".

In "Mode 1" EDID is transparent between display and source - all 4K modes the display accepts are passed to the source. In "Mode 2" (actually the default mode, set from the factory), the Yamaha strips out all video modes that would take the bitrate over 9Gbps, which for the Samsung UHD Player eliminates all modes with a bitdepth > 8-bit. This prevents a UHD Blu-ray from using BT.2020 for example. It also prevents the new XBox engaging 10-bit HDR.

This advanced option is not very well described in the Yamaha manual and easily missed. If the Marantz has anything similar ........


----------



## Dave Vaughn

jong1 said:


> Sorry for what may be another dead end question but, just to be sure. The Marantz does not have any 4K "compatibility mode" designed to work with older cables? Because if this was my Yamaha I would know exactly what the problem is. The Yamaha has an "advanced setup" option, where you choose between "4K Mode 1" or "4K Mode 2".
> 
> In "Mode 1" EDID is transparent between display and source - all 4K modes the display accepts are passed to the source. In "Mode 2" (actually the default mode, set from the factory), the Yamaha strips out all video modes that would take the bitrate over 9Gbps, which for the Samsung UHD Player eliminates all modes with a bitdepth > 8-bit. This prevents a UHD Blu-ray from using BT.2020 for example. It also prevents the new XBox engaging 10-bit HDR.
> 
> This advanced option is not very well described in the Yamaha manual and easily missed. If the Marantz has anything similar ........


Marantz does not have this feature. Although the JVC projector does.


----------



## R Harkness

Will an HDMI right angle adapter wreck my signal?


Folks: I need a 45 foot HDMI run between my UHD player and my JVC projector, so I'm looking at buying a fiber optic
HDMI cable from Celerity, which apparently has been used with success by some others.

Unfortunately I have an incredibly tight space tolerance behind my projector, such that I'm already using right-angle HDMI adapters
so my HDMI connectors/cables don't stick out too much behind the projector.

The Celerity has a fiber optic plug which plugs into an additional HDMI adapter, which means it will be just a bit too long out the back of the projector. So I'm wondering if I can use an additional right angle HDMI connector between the celerity HDMI connector and my projector.

Celerity says it can't guarantee signals if you use such adapters. But if I use one from, say, Monoprice, should I expect it to cause problems? As far as I know, most of the problem comes from long runs, and so shouldn't it be easy for the 4K signal from the Celerity cable to pass through the tiny angled HDMI adapter? Hence...probably will work?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Rich,

Anytime you add another connection, there's a chance (a likely one) that there will be signal loss. I have a Celerity cable in for a Round 2 HDMI review that I'm working on, but I don't have any right angle connections to test out for you. The Celerity cable is robust, so you should be OK. One other thing...you'll need USB power at the projector end to get it to work, but you can use a plug adapter (like you use for an iPhone) to plug the USB in to. Also, you can use a USB extension if you don't have a plug in the immediate area.


----------



## StephenBishop

Dave Vaughn said:


> Are you using USB power on the receiving end of the cable with the Celerity? If so, here's what you should try:
> 
> 1: Set the Marantz to output 4K with it's internal scaler using a source other than the UB900 (say, TV). Do you get a picture? If so, then it isn't the Celerity cable that's causing the issue. The Marantz 4K upconversion makes cables fail just like the Samsung menu.
> 
> 2. If you did get a picture with the Marantz set to 4K, switch is back to "no processing" (ip scaler off), and switch out the 6 foot cable that came with the Panasonic...that's most likely the culprit.


Many thanks for your input, Dave.


Yes, I am using USB power on the receiving end of the Celerity cable.


I do not have any problem with any source going through the Marantz if I set the Marantz video output to process at 4K 30Hz. However, I have a problem with all sources going through the Marantz if I set the Marantz video output to process at 4K 60Hz or Auto (I get a picture but very unstable with frequent disconnections and resultant picture loss). Same problem on a "pass through" or i/p scaler off on the Marantz. From this I am guessing that the Marantz does not output a full rate 18gbps signal (i.e. 4K 60Hz 444 at 8 bits or 4K 60Hz 422 at 12 bits).


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Stephen, it sounds like you're getting signal loss through the Marantz. If you have the 8802A (not an 8802 upgraded aftermarket), you can try and plug your UHD player into the front HDMI input, since it uses a separate board. See if that gives you a picture. You may also want to try a different HDMI input on the Marantz to see if that makes a difference. You could have a board that is a bit finicky.


----------



## StephenBishop

Dave Vaughn said:


> Stephen, it sounds like you're getting signal loss through the Marantz. If you have the 8802A (not an 8802 upgraded aftermarket), you can try and plug your UHD player into the front HDMI input, since it uses a separate board. See if that gives you a picture. You may also want to try a different HDMI input on the Marantz to see if that makes a difference. You could have a board that is a bit finicky.




Yes, I have an original Marantz 8802A (not an upgraded 8802). I will try your suggestions and report back- but likely wont be until the coming weekend. Thanks again.


----------



## jong1

StephenBishop said:


> Many thanks for your input, Dave.
> 
> 
> Yes, I am using USB power on the receiving end of the Celerity cable.
> 
> 
> I do not have any problem with any source going through the Marantz if I set the Marantz video output to process at 4K 30Hz. However, I have a problem with all sources going through the Marantz if I set the Marantz video output to process at 4K 60Hz or Auto (I get a picture but very unstable with frequent disconnections and resultant picture loss). Same problem on a "pass through" or i/p scaler off on the Marantz. From this I am guessing that the Marantz does not output a full rate 18gbps signal (i.e. 4K 60Hz 444 at 8 bits or 4K 60Hz 422 at 12 bits).


I've not had a lot of luck recently with suggested possibilities, but here's another one for you!

Are you sure your Celerity cable is 18Gbps rated? Until about a year ago their product was only rated to 16Gbps. It said so clearly on the box. Admittedly I am in the UK, but here there are still some of the old cables being sold, without this being highlighted.

Things to look for:

- The old cables say "16Gbps" on the outside of the box and on the quick installation guide inside the box.

- The old adaptors look like this: 










(solid white circle with "R" or "T" in the middle).

- The new adaptors look like this:










(Outer clear ring. Although not shown in the photo it should be the same on both the connector and the cable. The old cable is not guaranteed to work with the new adaptor)

If you have the latter type you should be OK for the cable at least.


----------



## StephenBishop

jong1 said:


> I've not had a lot of luck recently with suggested possibilities, but here's another one for you!
> 
> Are you sure your Celerity cable is 18Gbps rated? Until about a year ago their product was only rated to 16Gbps. It said so clearly on the box. Admittedly I am in the UK, but here there are still some of the old cables being sold, without this being highlighted.
> 
> Things to look for:
> 
> - The old cables say "16Gbps" on the outside of the box and on the quick installation guide inside the box.
> 
> - The old adaptors look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (solid white circle with "R" or "T" in the middle).
> 
> - The new adaptors look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Outer clear ring. Although not shown in the photo it should be the same on both the connector and the cable. The old cable is not guaranteed to work with the new adaptor)
> 
> If you have the latter type you should be OK for the cable at least.



Hi Jong1, my Celerity box says data rate of 18gbps and the connector and the cable have the outer clear ring. More importantly, I am getting a rock solid 4k60Hz 444 @ 8bits/422 @12 bits signal direct from the Panny UB900 to the 5000ES. So my cable is definitely 18gbps.


----------



## jong1

StephenBishop said:


> Hi Jong1, my Celerity box says data rate of 18gbps and the connector and the cable have the outer clear ring. More importantly, I am getting a rock solid 4k60Hz 444 @ 8bits/422 @12 bits signal direct from the Panny UB900 to the 5000ES. So my cable is definitely 18gbps.


That's really good news!


----------



## ereed

I didn't realized celerity fiber optic cable had to use USB connector powered. I also see Monoprice fiber optic without USB so I assume its active fiber optic built in?


----------



## R Harkness

Dave Vaughn said:


> Rich,
> 
> Anytime you add another connection, there's a chance (a likely one) that there will be signal loss. I have a Celerity cable in for a Round 2 HDMI review that I'm working on, but I don't have any right angle connections to test out for you. The Celerity cable is robust, so you should be OK. One other thing...you'll need USB power at the projector end to get it to work, but you can use a plug adapter (like you use for an iPhone) to plug the USB in to. Also, you can use a USB extension if you don't have a plug in the immediate area.


Thanks very much Dave. The Celerity is an expensive roll of the dice to see if this will work, so I'll have to figure out whether I'm up to it right now.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

How much clearance do you have behind the projector?


----------



## jong1

ereed said:


> I didn't realized celerity fiber optic cable had to use USB connector powered. I also see Monoprice fiber optic without USB so I assume its active fiber optic built in?


The Celerity only _requires_ USB at the receiver end. Normally, at the transmitter end it gets its power from the cable. They provide a USB connector at the transmitter too, though, in case the source provides insufficient power. It's a nice backup, although I haven't needed it.


----------



## jong1

R Harkness said:


> Thanks very much Dave. The Celerity is an expensive roll of the dice to see if this will work, so I'll have to figure out whether I'm up to it right now.


On the plus side, as the Celerity is creating the electrical HDMi signal, fresh, at the display end, with none of the signal degradation that would occur over a conventional cable. So, if the angle adaptor is good enough to pass 18Gbps with any length of cable, there is a good chance it will work!


----------



## ereed

I wonder if all fiber optic is the same? Just like digital is digital? Reason I asked is I thought about celerity but monoprice has fiber optic that is MUCH cheaper, but not sure if its same kind of fiber??? Seems no one has tested it yet. While i understand its 75 feet minimum, I'm surprised no one tested it cause of its affordable price for fiber optic compared to others.


----------



## jong1

ereed said:


> I wonder if all fiber optic is the same? Just like digital is digital? Reason I asked is I thought about celerity but monoprice has fiber optic that is MUCH cheaper, but not sure if its same kind of fiber??? Seems no one has tested it yet. While i understand its 75 feet minimum, I'm surprised no one tested it cause of its affordable price for fiber optic compared to others.


Regardless whether the fiber is the same, I imagine the adaptors that convert to/from electrical @18Gbps are far from "off the shelf"!


----------



## alebonau

have updated the original post,

latest testing ... round 2 from David Vaughn - Courtesy of Sound and Vision magazine,
http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#goOHOeY1Pjeqy3KP.97

good to see some cheap options there ! that do indeed pass in the long cable category, and also the ones that dont !


----------



## Postmoderndesign

All who question which cable will carry 3840 60Hz 4:4:4 18gbps should read David Vaughn - Courtesy of Sound and Vision magazine. He is the only person I know of who does a proper comparison of cables. And it looks like currently beyond 30 feet fiber optic Celebrity cable is the only proven alternative.


----------



## SLYDoggie

I was beginning to think that this thread had been killed... Nothing posted since 10/31 until today


----------



## bluechunks

Howdy all. Just discovered this thread today.

I just wanted to check in with a Celerity 50' Fibre Optic success story. 

When I upgraded my HT setup (Vizio P65-C1 and Yamaha RX-A2060) to 4K I also upgraded my long in-wall HDMI cable between the two to a Monoprice 50' Luxe Active 18Gbps cable. It could handle 4K/24 but 4K/60 was a disaster, despite its claim for 18Gbps @ 50'. 

A post on another thread suggested the Celerity and I can confirm it works great with 4K/60/HDR. I have a conduit installed and the fairly small and flexible fibre was a very easy "pull" compared to other HDMI cables that had been installed.

FWIW, I'm also currently not experiencing some of the 4K HDR display output changes folks are reporting with the Roku Ultra. Makes me wonder if the usb powered cable is keeping the HDMI handshake active in the chain? Hmmm.....


----------



## Laserion

http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#DfoKjTUKQIifSEA9.97

This is an awesome review. Thanks for it, it sure will help a lot. I'm also searching a solution for a combination of Nvidia Shield + Pioneer SC-LX59 AVR + JVC RS-400 Projector for a distance of 60ft.

Monoprice SlimRun™ AV Cable was the option i planned to buy, but it fails at 75ft according to test chart in review.

However i noticed something here. There are 2 types of Monoprice Slim Run AV and they are different.

1- SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI® - supports 18gbps - 4K60Hz
2- SlimRun™ AV CL2 Rated Cable for HDMI® - supports 10,2gbps - 4K30Hz.

The 75ft cable used in the test is 2nd one.*(Product # 14314)* It fails for 3840/2160 p - 60Hz - 4:4:4 at 75ft. But this cable doesn't even support this.

If the 1st one *(Product # 14234) *would be used at 75ft, it may had a chance to pass the test. 

Is there any one who tried SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI(not CL2) at 75 feet for 4K-60hz-4:4:4 ? I really would like to hear any experince for it. Because Monoprice has a much affordable price compared to Celerity.


----------



## jong1

Never say never, but I'd be doubtful that any conventional HDMI cable currently available and possibly ever, including active cables, will dependably do 18Gbps at 75ft. Much more than 30ft and I'd say you need to go optical. Next year new cat6 systems may also be a possibility.


----------



## Joe Fernand

There is no top secret, keep it to yourself solution to this one - HDMI cables will not reliably deliver the full capabilities of UHD BD or gaming rigs at the lengths being asked for.

Fibre HDMI is the only viable option at present with dual CAT solutions likely to be making an appearance in 2017, though unlikely as a lower cost solution.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aquarian09

Didnt read the entire thread, but would like to know about Monster Black Platinum HDMI Cable with Ethernet.

http://www.monsterproducts.com/Cabl...nster_Black_Platinum_HDMI_Cable_with_Ethernet

Any views about this ?


----------



## Ratman

Here's one from this thread:


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...ng-hdmi-cables-what-works-7.html#post47044737


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Laserion said:


> http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#DfoKjTUKQIifSEA9.97
> 
> This is an awesome review. Thanks for it, it sure will help a lot. I'm also searching a solution for a combination of Nvidia Shield + Pioneer SC-LX59 AVR + JVC RS-400 Projector for a distance of 60ft.
> 
> Monoprice SlimRun™ AV Cable was the option i planned to buy, but it fails at 75ft according to test chart in review.
> 
> However i noticed something here. There are 2 types of Monoprice Slim Run AV and they are different.
> 
> 1- SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI® - supports 18gbps - 4K60Hz
> 2- SlimRun™ AV CL2 Rated Cable for HDMI® - supports 10,2gbps - 4K30Hz.
> 
> The 75ft cable used in the test is 2nd one.*(Product # 14314)* It fails for 3840/2160 p - 60Hz - 4:4:4 at 75ft. But this cable doesn't even support this.
> 
> If the 1st one *(Product # 14234) *would be used at 75ft, it may had a chance to pass the test.
> 
> Is there any one who tried SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI(not CL2) at 75 feet for 4K-60hz-4:4:4 ? I really would like to hear any experince for it. Because Monoprice has a much affordable price compared to Celerity.


When I contacted Monoprice for the cables, I told them to send me any cables they thought would pass the 18GBPS tests at 60hz, none of them worked.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Aquarian09 said:


> Didnt read the entire thread, but would like to know about Monster Black Platinum HDMI Cable with Ethernet.
> 
> http://www.monsterproducts.com/Cabl...nster_Black_Platinum_HDMI_Cable_with_Ethernet
> 
> Any views about this ?


I tested one in my first go around and it would work for 24Hz, but not 60Hz (4:4:4).


----------



## Aquarian09

Dave Vaughn said:


> I tested one in my first go around and it would work for 24Hz, but not 60Hz (4:4:4).


I was under an impression that Monster HDMI will be overall solution for all the problems, damn am wrong.

What do you guys suggest for a 35ft length HDMI for UHD ?

Read the first post about Kordz, would like to confirm once again about it. Will that be a good choice which do not have any flaws ?


----------



## bluechunks

Aquarian09 said:


> I was under an impression that Monster HDMI will be overall solution for all the problems, damn am wrong.
> 
> What do you guys suggest for a 35ft length HDMI for UHD ?


35ft? 

Really the only current choice is Celerity. 

FWIW, I have a 50' run and it solved all my problems.


----------



## Aquarian09

bluechunks said:


> 35ft?
> 
> Really the only current choice is Celerity. I have a 50' run and it solved all my problems.


Did you run it through walls ?


----------



## Aquarian09

bluechunks said:


> 35ft?
> 
> Really the only current choice is Celerity.
> 
> FWIW, I have a 50' run and it solved all my problems.


Can you please provide the link to the cable that you are talking about please.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Aquarian09 said:


> I was under an impression that Monster HDMI will be overall solution for all the problems, damn am wrong.
> 
> What do you guys suggest for a 35ft length HDMI for UHD ?
> 
> Read the first post about Kordz, would like to confirm once again about it. Will that be a good choice which do not have any flaws ?





bluechunks said:


> 35ft?
> 
> Really the only current choice is Celerity.
> 
> FWIW, I have a 50' run and it solved all my problems.


Beat me to the punch.



Aquarian09 said:


> Did you run it through walls ?


The Celerity can be run through walls (test it first before pulling the wire). It's the easiest to pull because the head ends are removable...the fiber cable itself is less than 1/4" diameter (skinnier than a coax cable).


----------



## Aquarian09

Is this the one :

https://www.amazon.com/Celerity-Tec...=UTF8&qid=1479227700&sr=8-1&keywords=celerity

??


----------



## Aquarian09

Dave Vaughn said:


> Best me to the punch.
> 
> 
> 
> The Celerity can be run through walls (test it first before pulling the wire). It's the easiest to pull because the head ends are removable...the fiber cable itself is less than 1/4" diameter (skinnier than a coax cable).


Thanks for that


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I'd go direct to the source: http://shop.celeritytek.com/


----------



## Aquarian09

Dave Vaughn said:


> I'd go direct to the source: http://shop.celeritytek.com/


Thanks for the link


----------



## jong1

^^. I have a 35ft Celerity cable in a wall. It's great. Much simpler than running HDMI or Cat6. Thin, flexible and strong. The little optical head end, even has a little rubber cap, so you can put it through the wall without worrying about damaging it or getting it blocked up.


----------



## Otto Pylot

If you're going to run any cable thru the walls use a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. It makes installing cable so much easier. Especially if you have to repair and/or upgrade your cabling which you will definitely be doing as video standards increase and the connection options start to lag behind as they are now. You can also use the same run for future cable pulls (coax, solid core CAT-6, what ever your needs are now and in the future). Conduit is the only "future proofing" you can realistically do. Monster, btw, is overpriced and over hyped for what you get.


----------



## Laserion

Dave Vaughn said:


> When I contacted Monoprice for the cables, I told them to send me any cables they thought would pass the 18GBPS tests at 60hz, none of them worked.


Ok, but I see that you tested 75 ft for Monoprice #14134 (Slim Run CL2) and 100ft for Monoprice [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=13700]#13700 .(Slim[/URL] Run w/o CL2) 

It's normal that 75 ft #14134 fail at 4K60hz, because it doesn't support.

I'm also unhappy to see that 100 ft #13700 also failed. Because it should have passed 4K60Hz according to it's spec.

But, if Monoprice didn't send 75ft #14234 (SlimRun w/o CL2) and this was not tested by you, this 25ft shorter version still may have chance. At least i haven't seen any negative or positive experience for this cable reference until now.

Sorry, i'm trying to push my chance and i'm still seeking a chance to find a cable for 55ft-60ft for 4K-60hz-4:4:4. Except Celerity for the moment, which is too expensive. These kind of cables are not sold in my country but i'll have a chance to bring one from US next month. I'll have no chance to try anyone and no chance to return it.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Laserion said:


> Ok, but I see that you tested 75 ft for Monoprice #14134 (Slim Run CL2) and 100ft for Monoprice [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=13700]#13700 .(Slim[/URL] Run w/o CL2)
> 
> It's normal that 75 ft #14134 fail at 4K60hz, because it doesn't support.
> 
> I'm also unhappy to see that 100 ft #13700 also failed. Because it should have passed 4K60Hz according to it's spec.
> 
> But, if Monoprice didn't send 75ft #14234 (SlimRun w/o CL2) and this was not tested by you, this 25ft shorter version still may have chance. At least i haven't seen any negative or positive experience for this cable reference until now.
> 
> Sorry, i'm trying to push my chance and i'm still seeking a chance to find a cable for 55ft-60ft for 4K-60hz-4:4:4. Except Celerity for the moment, which is too expensive. These kind of cables are not sold in my country but i'll have a chance to bring one from US next month. I'll have no chance to try anyone and no chance to return it.


My suspicion is that it didn't fail due to the length, it failed because of the transmitter/receiver chip couldn't handle the 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 signal due to bandwidth restrictions in the actual chip. That's why no active cable has worked consistently thus far in these longer lengths.


----------



## jong1

Honestly Laserion, you should listen to the multiple people here who are saying that you will not get 4K/60 4:4:4 to work over that distance with anything but Celerity right now. Maybe there will be a Cat6 solution next year, but is likely to have a similar cost. Otherwise you would have to drop the higher bit rates. You could probably still do 4K/60 4:2:0 8-bit.


----------



## jong1

Dave Vaughn said:


> My suspicion is that it didn't fail due to the length, it failed because of the transmitter/receiver chip couldn't handle the 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 signal due to bandwidth restrictions in the actual chip. That's why no active cable has worked consistently thus far in these longer lengths.


In support of this, I tried 2 Chord 10M cables: the ~£400 Active Resolution 2, active cable and the C-View ~£120 passive, with direct support from Chord. Both failed, but the C-View actually did noticeable better (worked with 4K/24 4:2:0 10-bit). The conclusion we reached was the active components were getting in the way.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. The problem with current active cables is that the chipsets used, whether they use Redmere technology or something similar are just not robust enough to handle the higher video standards. That will change once the newest HDMI 2.0a and/or HDCP 2.2 chipsets are incorporated into the newest crop of active HDMI cables but that has been a slow process. That also applies to extenders and HDBT as well. Unfortunately there is just not a reliable way of determining which version of chipsets are being used. As I've said before, the video technology has far outpaced the connection technology, and until the connection technology catches up, your options are very limited for distances longer than about 20'.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. The problem with current active cables is that the chipsets used, whether they use Redmere technology or something similar are just not robust enough to handle the higher video standards. That will change once the newest HDMI 2.0a and/or HDCP 2.2 chipsets are incorporated into the newest crop of active HDMI cables but that has been a slow process. That also applies to extenders and HDBT as well. Unfortunately there is just not a reliable way of determining which version of chipsets are being used. As I've said before, the video technology has far outpaced the connection technology, and until the connection technology catches up, your options are very limited for distances longer than about 20'.


Couldn't agree more...I've found reliability of up to 30 feet, but the cables are quite thick, stiff, and heavy, which come with their own set of challenges of running them in wall and putting pressure on HDMI inputs with their weight.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> Couldn't agree more...I've found reliability of up to 30 feet, but the cables are quite thick, stiff, and heavy, which come with their own set of challenges of running them in wall and putting pressure on HDMI inputs with their weight.


Yep. The thicker AWG cables are a bit more reliable for longer distances but loss of flexibility and increased strain on the inputs hardly make them worth it. You can still run them in a conduit but then you end up with bend radius issues.


----------



## Joe Fernand

'I'm trying to push my chance' - if Fibre is not a realistic solution and moving the gear is not an option go with conduit and pull Fibre as and when it becomes more affordable.

No Standard HDMI cable is going to be guaranteed to work for you.

Worth noting too that the heavier gauge HDMI cables are more prone to failure where the connectors mate with the cable - always have a backup plan in place.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aquarian09

So, as on today, its only Celerity Fiberoptic which is the best solution for 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 ??
Is it more than 18gbps ? I mean like double the speed , since its fiberoptic it should be no match for other 4K HDMI cables.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

*dual CAT solutions*

Joe-What leads you to suggest "dual CAT solutions likely to be making an appearance in 2017"

Do you know who is working on dual CAT solutions and what progress has been made?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

The issue with CAT cables right now is the transmitter/receiver chips used can't do 18GBPS, there's hope that they will soon.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Aquarian09 said:


> So, as on today, its only Celerity Fiberoptic which is the best solution for 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 ??
> Is it more than 18gbps ? I mean like double the speed , since its fiberoptic it should be no match for other 4K HDMI cables.


I'm pretty positive the bandwidth of the actual cable extends beyond 18GBPS, but the head ends (the actual HDMI connectors), do have active components in them that are 18 GBPS...if standards are pushed out, one could assume they "may" be able to buy new connectors that are compliant with any new specification (HDMI 3.0, for example) without having to pull an entirely new wire.


----------



## jong1

Dave Vaughn said:


> I'm pretty positive the bandwidth of the actual cable extends beyond 18GBPS, but the head ends (the actual HDMI connectors), do have active components in them that are 18 GBPS...if standards are pushed out, one could assume they "may" be able to buy new connectors that are compliant with any new specification (HDMI 3.0, for example) without having to pull an entirely new wire.


Maybe, but I had their 16Gbps cable and had to swap it all out for 18Gbps. Probably an issue with the connector between the cable and the headend, rather than the cable itself, but the result was the same.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

jong1 said:


> Maybe, but I had their 16Gbps cable and had to swap it all out for 18Gbps. Probably an issue with the connector between the cable and the headend, rather than the cable itself, but the result was the same.


That sucks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Aquarian09 said:


> So, as on today, its only Celerity Fiberoptic which is the best solution for 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 ??
> Is it more than 18gbps ? I mean like double the speed , since its fiberoptic it should be no match for other 4K HDMI cables.


Probably. But that is not a 100% guarantee because other factors come into play as well (distance, equipment, how the cable is installed, etc). Unless there is some sort of certification or testing information supplied with the cable, at the length you purchased, assumptions are just that, assumptions.


----------



## Laserion

Dave Vaughn said:


> My suspicion is that it didn't fail due to the length, it failed because of the transmitter/receiver chip couldn't handle the 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 signal due to bandwidth restrictions in the actual chip. That's why no active cable has worked consistently thus far in these longer lengths.


Understood. Anyway, I'd like to ask you and other experts one final(i hope) thing. I saw another user on other HDMI thread, who succeded to have 4K-60Hz/10 bit with Monoprice fiber cable. He uses and AVR,Nvidia Shield and JVC RS-500, similar to my system.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/2016401-hdmi-cables-support-4k-60hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-37.html#post47661337

He's not sure if he succeded 4:4:4.(probably didn't) Because he only saw 4k-60Hz-10bit on JVC's info screen. 

In my case movies are the only issue. So, i assume that i don't need 4:4:4 for any existing movie, do i? 

By the way, can we also assume that these cables will also support HDR?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Laserion said:


> Understood. Anyway, I'd like to ask you and other experts one final(i hope) thing. I saw another user on other HDMI thread, who succeded to have 4K-60Hz/10 bit with Monoprice fiber cable. He uses and AVR,Nvidia Shield and JVC RS-500, similar to my system.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/2016401-hdmi-cables-support-4k-60hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-37.html#post47661337
> 
> He's not sure if he succeded 4:4:4.(probably didn't) Because he only saw 4k-60Hz-10bit on JVC's info screen.
> 
> In my case movies are the only issue. So, i assume that i don't need 4:4:4 for any existing movie, do i?
> 
> By the way, can we also assume that these cables will also support HDR?


4K60 10 bit is a 4:2:0 signal, which requires a lower bandwidth (under 12 GBPS--11.1 to be exact), so the chip in that cable may be able to work at that resolution. Where these cables are really tested are with the Samsung UHD player and specifically some displays (like my JVC), which sends out EDID information saying it will accept the 4k/60 4:4:4 resolution, so that's what the player sends out (which is a big issue).


----------



## ccool96

I have just finished testing just about every option avaible to transmit [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit and [email protected] 4:2:2 12bit. Both of which require the full 18Gbps. 


I have both a Sony 5000ES and a JVC RS-600. I had been using 2 50' monoprice cabernet cables with Integral to limit to 10.2gbps. This has worked fine for UHD Bluray at [email protected] 4:4:4 12bit and 4K DIRECTV at [email protected] 4:2:0 10bit.

But I just added a Roku Ultra so I could get Netflix 4K HDR. They only transmit this at [email protected] 4:2:2 12bit. So that requires me to look for a true 18Gbps cable. 

I tried new Cabernet cables which were 45' and said to work. Bought 2. One didn't work at all. The other gave and image with all sorts of random colored snow. At [email protected] 4:4:4 both FAIL. 

Tried the Monoprice [email protected] SlimAV. Not the CL2 model which is only rated at [email protected] I think the Monoprice is just mis-labeled. No where on the cable or packaging did it say the non-CL2 cable is capable of [email protected] 4:4:4. Didn't work at all for 18Gbps. FAIL. 

Today I installed 2 Celerity Fiber Optic Cables. Truly amazing quality. This cable is so tiny though, I was scared to touch it. 
Ran one from my main house equipment location to the Sony 5000ES. Ran the other to the JVC RS-600. Both work flawlessly. No problems at all. PASS both [email protected] 4:2:2 12 bit and [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit. Highly recommend!!! 

Considering what I spent for 2 Cabernet cables along with 2 Integrals, the Celerity Fiber Optic HDMI seems like a deal. Plus you can run it much further. I plan to run 2 more. One will be around 80'. The other will be 100'. 

If you need to run 40' or more, stop wasting your time and money and run the Celerity Fiber Optic Cable! So thankful there is one product on the market that actually works!!!


----------



## Laserion

Dave Vaughn said:


> 4K60 10 bit is a 4:2:0 signal, which requires a lower bandwidth (under 12 GBPS--11.1 to be exact), so the chip in that cable may be able to work at that resolution. Where these cables are really tested are with the Samsung UHD player and specifically some displays (like my JVC), which sends out EDID information saying it will accept the 4k/60 4:4:4 resolution, so that's what the player sends out (which is a big issue).


Ok, thanks. Everything's seems much clear now. Message below from "*ccool96*" also prooves all these by experience.

Now, i'll check my options.

1- I can pay 400$ for Celerity 60" , get rid off all problems and don't worry any more, thanks to a lighter wallet

2- Using Blackbird 4K Pro HDMI® 2.0 Repeater [email protected] YUV 4:4:4 in the middle and buying 2x reliable 30ft (1x30ft and 1x 25ft can also be enough). This Blackbird 4K Pro is approved by some users on other thread for 4K-60Hz-4:4:4. This solution can be cheaper if 2 reliable cables can be found.

3- Satisfying with 4K-60Hz-10 bit (4:2:0) with Monoprice cable, not 18 gbps but which seem to cover all requirements for any existing movies. This solution may limit something for future.




ccool96 said:


> Tried the Monoprice [email protected] SlimAV. Not the CL2 model which is only rated at [email protected] I think the Monoprice is just mis-labeled. No where on the cable or packaging did it say the non-CL2 cable is capable of [email protected] 4:4:4. Didn't work at all for 18Gbps. FAIL.
> .
> .
> .
> If you need to run 40' or more, stop wasting your time and money and run the Celerity Fiber Optic Cable! So thankful there is one product on the market that actually works!!!


----------



## beuwolf

*Use Cat5/6??*

Hey all, so I started looking into this and one problem I typically have with good quality long run HDMI cables is they are typically thick and hard to route easily. Secondly, they tend to be super expensive. So.. why not use CAT 5E/6 cables that can run hundreds of feet, much smaller/easier, and devices on both ends. I cant post links yet.. but there are things like HDMI over CAT5/6, etc you can look up. They seem to be about $100 to $300.. not sure difference in price either..maybe the more expensive support HDMI 2.0 and 4K better?

Is that not a better option? I have never run this setup so I am not sure if there are any issues with the devices on each end or loss of any quality?


----------



## Bkelley3rd

I solved my problem by changing from the Samsung Ultra HD player to the Philips Ultra HD player and buying a fiber optic SlimRun HDMI cable from Monoprice.com. It can perfectly transmit [email protected] UHD video over distances up to 330 feet. 

My run was nearly 40 feet and I tried a number of cable options. The SlimRun cable has worked perfectly for four months. The shortest cable is 75 feet, but since its super thin and easy to rollup the extra length is easy to hide behind my equipment cabinet at the front of my theater room. I'm using the Denon AVR-X2200W

I had constant handshake issues using from the Samsung UBD-K8500 player with my long run to the JVC DLA-X550R projector.


----------



## jong1

beuwolf said:


> Hey all, so I started looking into this and one problem I typically have with good quality long run HDMI cables is they are typically thick and hard to route easily. Secondly, they tend to be super expensive. So.. why not use CAT 5E/6 cables that can run hundreds of feet, much smaller/easier, and devices on both ends. I cant post links yet.. but there are things like HDMI over CAT5/6, etc you can look up. They seem to be about $100 to $300.. not sure difference in price either..maybe the more expensive support HDMI 2.0 and 4K better?
> 
> Is that not a better option? I have never run this setup so I am not sure if there are any issues with the devices on each end or loss of any quality?


We have talked about this in the last couple of pages.

Current Cat5/6 baluns do not work @18Gbps, so do not offer full UHD/HDMI 2.0 compatibility. Maybe next spring/summer it may be an option. In the meantime, optical fiber is both slimmer and easier to route than either HDMI or Cat6.


----------



## Otto Pylot

beuwolf said:


> Hey all, so I started looking into this and one problem I typically have with good quality long run HDMI cables is they are typically thick and hard to route easily. Secondly, they tend to be super expensive. So.. why not use CAT 5E/6 cables that can run hundreds of feet, much smaller/easier, and devices on both ends. I cant post links yet.. but there are things like HDMI over CAT5/6, etc you can look up. They seem to be about $100 to $300.. not sure difference in price either..maybe the more expensive support HDMI 2.0 and 4K better?
> 
> Is that not a better option? I have never run this setup so I am not sure if there are any issues with the devices on each end or loss of any quality?


Solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cables) is an option, and one that we have mentioned many times in the past. That works very well for 1080p. The problem is for long runs (in a conduit) you need to actively terminate them with some sort of active termination like HDBT. The issue comes back to the chipsets used in the active terminators as we have pointed out in the past. 1080p is not usually an issue, but the video demands of 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz are such that the HDMI 2.0a/HDCP2.2 chipsets just aren't available yet that can handle proper error correction, timing etc. Solid core CAT-6/6a cables can handle 18Gbps but the terminators can't.


----------



## daviddsailor

Hope this may be of interest. 
I have the Samsung UBD-K8500 and the JVC X9000. I first tried to get them working with my 10 year old 13 metre (43 foot) HDMI cable and naturally they didn't work at 4K but did work OK with 2K movies (I only have two 4K movies so far, Mad Max and Star Trek). 
I tried several short (1.0 to 1.5M) cables HDMI cables and they didn't work either at 4K. I purchased a 12 metre (39 foot) Wireworld Chroma 7 active HDMI cable and the system now works perfectly. 
At first the system didn't work with the Wireworld cable so I performed the latest upgrade to both the Samsung and JVC. The combo still seemed a bit cantankerous but I now realise that it takes longer for things to talk to each other with 4K and it pays to be patient and wait for up to 30 plus seconds for the Samsung and JVC to get their brains into gear. 
One thing I notice now is that my 2K Bluray movies often look spectacular and I haven't seen better anywhere. Another thing I've noticed is with modern Sci-fi movies the main feature may look pretty average but the extra features (making of the movie) often look amazing probably because they are straight from the camera without any post processing.


----------



## ccool96

Bkelley3rd said:


> I solved my problem by changing from the Samsung Ultra HD player to the Philips Ultra HD player and buying a fiber optic SlimRun HDMI cable from Monoprice.com. It can perfectly transmit [email protected] UHD video over distances up to 330 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My run was nearly 40 feet and I tried a number of cable options. The SlimRun cable has worked perfectly for four months. The shortest cable is 75 feet, but since its super thin and easy to rollup the extra length is easy to hide behind my equipment cabinet at the front of my theater room. I'm using the Denon AVR-X2200W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had constant handshake issues using from the Samsung UBD-K8500 player with my long run to the JVC DLA-X550R projector.



People need to understand that none of the Monoprice Slimline AV cables pass full 18Gbps. So while it will do [email protected] 4:2:0 8bit which is about 10gbps, it won't do full [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12bit. 

Only the Celerity Fiber Optic cable will do the full 18Gbps for long runs.


----------



## wse

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. The problem with current active cables is that the chipsets used, whether they use Redmere technology or something similar are just not robust enough to handle the higher video standards. That will change once the newest HDMI 2.0a and/or HDCP 2.2 chipsets are incorporated into the newest crop of active HDMI cables but that has been a slow process. That also applies to extenders and HDBT as well. Unfortunately there is just not a reliable way of determining which version of chipsets are being used. As I've said before, the video technology has far outpaced the connection technology, and until the connection technology catches up, your options are very limited for distances longer than about 20'.


Yes thick and stiff but work great with my JVC RS-600 and Panasonic DMP-UB900 

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2

The only one certified but I can't wait until these are certified! 

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=13590&seq=1&format=2

These would be even better!


----------



## mhdiab

Dave Vaughn said:


> Couldn't agree more...I've found reliability of up to 30 feet, but the cables are quite thick, stiff, and heavy, which come with their own set of challenges of running them in wall and putting pressure on HDMI inputs with their weight.




Which 25'-30' cables would you recommend?


I am seeing the issue with the strain on HDMI inputs but was going to combat that with a simple cable tray and some zip-ties

Tried this?:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8929Q/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza


EDIT: I see this post covered it pretty good but I guess I am right there in the middle. Looking for an 18gbps cable at 30ft. If that doesn't really exist I could go with the monoprice for now


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-14.html#post48238617

Thanks!


----------



## nutte

I haven't seen http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ mentioned. Haven't anyone tried them?


I've used them for the last 10 years and never had any problems; haven't used longer than 50' cables though. Also have not yet tried with UHD, but when I do, my first choice for long cables would be bluejeans.


----------



## bluechunks

nutte said:


> I haven't seen http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ mentioned. Haven't anyone tried them?
> 
> 
> I've used them for the last 10 years and never had any problems; haven't used longer than 50' cables though. Also have not yet tried with UHD, but when I do, my first choice for long cables would be bluejeans.


Might want to take another look at the thread. 

The Blue Jean cables passed Dave Vaughn's 4K test (@ 30ft) but beyond that distance all current wired HDMI cables have problems with 18Gbps with the exception being the fibre optic based Celerity.


----------



## ereed

nutte said:


> I haven't seen http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ mentioned. Haven't anyone tried them?
> 
> 
> I've used them for the last 10 years and never had any problems; haven't used longer than 50' cables though. Also have not yet tried with UHD, but when I do, my first choice for long cables would be bluejeans.


As long as you keep it short as possible you should be fine with regular passive HDMI high speed cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nutte said:


> I haven't seen http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ mentioned. Haven't anyone tried them?
> 
> 
> I've used them for the last 10 years and never had any problems; haven't used longer than 50' cables though. Also have not yet tried with UHD, but when I do, my first choice for long cables would be bluejeans.


BJC makes very good cables and some of them are even certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). But, as others have pointed out, 20' - 30' (max) seems to be the limit for just about any cable, unless you go with something like a Celerity Fiber Optic cable, which can be pricey and even that is not 100% guaranteed. About the only thing you can do, especially at 50', is run a 1.5" to 2.0" conduit so when you swap out your cable, which you will be doing sooner than later, it can be easily done. 1080p is not the problem, even at 50'. It's 4k, 4:4:4 @60 Hz.


----------



## nutte

Otto Pylot said:


> BJC makes very good cables and some of them are even certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). But, as others have pointed out, 20' - 30' (max) seems to be the limit for just about any cable, unless you go with something like a Celerity Fiber Optic cable, which can be pricey and even that is not 100% guaranteed. About the only thing you can do, especially at 50', is run a 1.5" to 2.0" conduit so when you swap out your cable, which you will be doing sooner than later, it can be easily done. 1080p is not the problem, even at 50'. It's 4k, 4:4:4 @60 Hz.


Thanks for the comment. Then I know what to expect when the time will come to get a 4k projector; which should hopefully be fairly soon.


----------



## Ted99

I purchased the 30' Sewell Direct silverback cable when it was first announced, based on the assertion that it had been tested. I haven't opened the package, yet; because I am waiting for the Oppo 203. In the meanwhile, the reports on this cable in the AVS forums are 50:50 on whether it works. Based on that, I decided to put my AVR halfway between the PJ and screen and asked Sewell Direct for an RMA to exchange for a shorter cable--A MONTH AGO. Despite repeated contacts, I have had no response.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ that is unfortunate. We were hoping that when "Jared Sewell Direct" started posting about their cables that they were going to work. But his lack of answering a direct question seemed a bit questionable. Hopefully they are just backlogged (with returns?) and they will respond soon.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Dave Vaughn said:


> The issue with CAT cables right now is the transmitter/receiver chips used can't do 18GBPS, there's hope that they will soon.


Altona has posted the following Premium Extender for Residential Systems for *Fall 2017*, 
4K HDR HDBaseT TX/RX with Ethernet, Control, PoE, and Return Audio

• • • Available Fall 2017 • • •
Model Number: AT-CENT-301-CEA
VESA Display Stream Compression

HDR and 4K/60 4:4:4 video content requires data rates exceeding 10 Gbps and up to 18 Gbps – a significant challenge for extending signals over HDBaseT. The Centum 301 CEA provides an innovative solution with DSC, a visually lossless video compression technology developed by VESA. DSC applies extremely light compression (1.5:1 or less), allowing transmission of HDR and 4K/60 4:4:4 over a single category cable while ensuring very high, pristine image quality. DSC is currently used for embedded display interfaces in mobile devices with high resolution screens.
http://atlona.com/product/at-cent-301-cea/


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Postmoderndesign said:


> Altona has posted the following Premium Extender for Residential Systems for *Fall 2017*,
> 4K HDR HDBaseT TX/RX with Ethernet, Control, PoE, and Return Audio
> 
> • • • Available Fall 2017 • • •
> Model Number: AT-CENT-301-CEA
> VESA Display Stream Compression
> 
> HDR and 4K/60 4:4:4 video content requires data rates exceeding 10 Gbps and up to 18 Gbps – a significant challenge for extending signals over HDBaseT. The Centum 301 CEA provides an innovative solution with DSC, a visually lossless video compression technology developed by VESA. DSC applies extremely light compression (1.5:1 or less), allowing transmission of HDR and 4K/60 4:4:4 over a single category cable while ensuring very high, pristine image quality. DSC is currently used for embedded display interfaces in mobile devices with high resolution screens.
> http://atlona.com/product/at-cent-301-cea/


That's a year from now and includes compression, which could be problematic.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Beat me to it


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Yes, the Atlona AT-CENT-301-CEA does include compression which may be problematic and it is a year away which means it may never be produced or may be surpassed before it is on the market.

However I wanted to point out that it requires cat6a or cat7 for 18gbps which supports those of us who have been pulling or suggesting pulling cat 6a rather than cat6 or cat5e.
"Extended distance HDMI extension

Transmits AV, control, and Ethernet up to 330 feet (100 meters) @ 1080p with CAT5e/6 or *4K HDR using CAT6a/7 cable*"


----------



## Dave Vaughn

That's why installing smurf tube in the widest diameter you can get away with is a good idea. You never know what's going to come tomorrow.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> That's why installing smurf tube in the widest diameter you can get away with is a good idea. You never know what's going to come tomorrow.


Agreed. The only true way to "future proof" is to install conduit, period. We can't emphasize that enough.


----------



## Ratman

Dave Vaughn said:


> You never know what's going to come tomorrow.


Tomorrow! Tomorrow! I love you tomorrow! 
(couldn't resist)


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Tomorrow! Tomorrow! I love you tomorrow!
> (couldn't resist)


I see you started early today


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> I see you started early today


Posted at 6:40 PM ... not AM. 
EDIT:
That EST.


----------



## Otto Pylot

:laugh:


----------



## GaspodeX

I feel like I've gone round in circles reading this thread ...


I've got a fairly straight forward need to get an HDMI cable from my AV rack at the back of the room to my Samsung JS8500 at the front - basically a 10m run.


I need a cable that will carry a 4K HDR signal from my Samsung K8500 and my Ps4 Pro to the TV. So far I've had fails from several different brands of cable over 3 m. 


I need one that would work - I started off thinking the Kordz PRS 10m active was the way to go (as the start of thos thread suggests) but thinks seem to have changed.


I'm ok spending a reasonable amount of money for something that works that's readily available in the UK - be it the Kordz or the Celerity. I know where I can get the Kordz but if its not going to work then where can I get the celerity and does someone have an exact part number ?


Any help appreciated here - i'm tearing my hair out for what should be a simple matter ...


G.


----------



## jong1

GaspodeX said:


> where can I get the celerity and does someone have an exact part number ?


Don't know what the rules are here, but Joe and John @TMF Solutions supplied my Celerity cable at a very good price. Joe is an active member here (even in this thread). They know exactly what you need.


----------



## SandstormGT

GaspodeX said:


> I feel like I've gone round in circles reading this thread ...
> 
> 
> I've got a fairly straight forward need to get an HDMI cable from my AV rack at the back of the room to my Samsung JS8500 at the front - basically a 10m run.
> 
> 
> I need a cable that will carry a 4K HDR signal from my Samsung K8500 and my Ps4 Pro to the TV. So far I've had fails from several different brands of cable over 3 m.
> 
> 
> I need one that would work - I started off thinking the Kordz PRS 10m active was the way to go (as the start of thos thread suggests) but thinks seem to have changed.
> 
> 
> I'm ok spending a reasonable amount of money for something that works that's readily available in the UK - be it the Kordz or the Celerity. I know where I can get the Kordz but if its not going to work then where can I get the celerity and does someone have an exact part number ?
> 
> 
> Any help appreciated here - i'm tearing my hair out for what should be a simple matter ...
> 
> 
> G.


Just going by another user post in this thread, another option might be to simply sell the Samsung UHD player and buy one of the other 2 available. The problem with the Samsung UHD player is it's menu/UI outputs a signal that uses more bandwidth than even a UHD movie does. THe Panasonic, at least according to the user, does not have this problem.

Also, if all you need is a 30 foot run, David Vaughn in this thread says the Blue Jeans Cable 1E 30-foot cable passed all of his 4K 4:4:4 tests on the Samsung 8500.


----------



## jong1

SandstormGT said:


> Just going by another user post in this thread, another option might be to simply sell the Samsung UHD player and buy one of the other 2 available. The problem with the Samsung UHD player is it's menu/UI outputs a signal that uses more bandwidth than even a UHD movie does. THe Panasonic, at least according to the user, does not have this problem.
> 
> Also, if all you need is a 30 foot run, David Vaughn in this thread says the Blue Jeans Cable 1E 30-foot cable passed all of his 4K 4:4:4 tests on the Samsung 8500.


The Samsung menu, while unnecessarily challenging is not outside of the UHD spec, it's just 4K/60 4;4:4 . A UHD 24fps movie is not the ultimate challenge. I wouldn't/didn't want a solution that means you simply cannot play some UHD video formats or use some devices. Chromecast Ultra, for example, uses 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit here, so like 4:4:4 8-bit needs the full 18Gbps.

10M is a little more than 30ft, depends on how precise his needs are. Anyway, even is 30ft is enough, the Blue Jeans cable is not certified for 18Gbps over 15ft. I expect some will pass, some (maybe a lot) will fail. How much more messing around does he want?


----------



## alebonau

GaspodeX said:


> I feel like I've gone round in circles reading this thread ...
> 
> 
> I've got a fairly straight forward need to get an HDMI cable from my AV rack at the back of the room to my Samsung JS8500 at the front - basically a 10m run.
> 
> 
> I need a cable that will carry a 4K HDR signal from my Samsung K8500 and my Ps4 Pro to the TV. So far I've had fails from several different brands of cable over 3 m.
> 
> 
> I need one that would work - I started off thinking the Kordz PRS 10m active was the way to go (as the start of thos thread suggests) but thinks seem to have changed.
> 
> 
> I'm ok spending a reasonable amount of money for something that works that's readily available in the UK - be it the Kordz or the Celerity. I know where I can get the Kordz but if its not going to work then where can I get the celerity and does someone have an exact part number ?
> 
> 
> Any help appreciated here - i'm tearing my hair out for what should be a simple matter ...
> 
> 
> G.


when i got the kordz prs i had cast iron guarantee from the maker and re enforced by seller when got from their store that it was money back if didnt work. i have had zero issue with the samsung and my equip combo and with the kordz over 10m. i would still only recommend anyone buy any cable only if have a money back guarantee... there are just too many variables. though that said I know 3 others now running same combination as me sammy - marantz - JVC and no issue with the kordz prs so there are no doubt some combinations work.



SandstormGT said:


> Just going by another user post in this thread, another option might be to simply sell the Samsung UHD player and buy one of the other 2 available. The problem with the Samsung UHD player is it's menu/UI outputs a signal that uses more bandwidth than even a UHD movie does. THe Panasonic, at least according to the user, does not have this problem.
> 
> Also, if all you need is a 30 foot run, David Vaughn in this thread says the Blue Jeans Cable 1E 30-foot cable passed all of his 4K 4:4:4 tests on the Samsung 8500.


i have had no issue with the samsung. and while will be getting the oppo on release its not no fault on the sammy as its had a un blemished run. its just that will be handy to have a universal player in the system rather than uhd/dvd/blu-ray only.


----------



## GaspodeX

jong1 said:


> The Samsung menu, while unnecessarily challenging is not outside of the UHD spec, it's just 4K/60 4;4:4 . A UHD 24fps movie is not the ultimate challenge. I wouldn't/didn't want a solution that means you simply cannot play some UHD video formats or use some devices. Chromecast Ultra, for example, uses 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit here, so like 4:4:4 8-bit needs the full 18Gbps.
> 
> 10M is a little more than 30ft, depends on how precise his needs are. Anyway, even is 30ft is enough, the Blue Jeans cable is not certified for 18Gbps over 15ft. I expect some will pass, some (maybe a lot) will fail. How much more messing around does he want?




I'm done messing around.. I bit the bullet and invested in the 35ft Celerity with the new DFO' connectors (just arrived over here) ... Seems the sensible choice really.


G


----------



## kwdtje

chickberger said:


> Don't know if thats available in the US but this little box worked wonders for me: (costs 80€ in germany)
> 
> Tested it with:
> 
> Player: PC with GTX 980 Ti,
> AV Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2060
> Output: LG Oled B6D
> Repeater: see above ()
> 
> HDMI Cable 1: Kabel Direkt 15m (~50ft) Top Series (some standard amazon cable, nothing fancy or expensive)
> HDMI Cable 2: Also standard 1,5m (~5ft) cable
> 
> PC -> 50ft cable -> *[ Repeater Input ]* -> *[ Repeater Output ]* -> 5ft cable -> Yamaha RX-A2060 -> 5ft cable -> LG Oled B6D
> 
> Resolutions i tested:
> 
> 
> Since i guess most have a device -> 5ft cable -> av/receiver -> 50ft cable -> repeater input -> repeater output -> 5ft cable -> tv / beamer setup i also tested it and it works the same way. Since my new Beamer is not ready yet i can only test it from xbox one s -> avr -> lg. () (its german for "Your TV supports") With the x-box i couldn't test a real [email protected]:4:4/8bit but it should work the same as the other setup.
> 
> The 50ft cable without repeater stopped working at [email protected]
> 
> It's really a pain in the ass when it comes to long hdmi cables so i hope it helped someone.
> 
> Personally i have to go 50ft from my PC to the AVR and then 40ft back to the projector. I haven't tested the full flow yet (need a second repeater) but i can't say why it should not work since i have tested both directions now. (assuming the AVR just deploys a fresh signal?)
> 
> Best,
> mike


Hi, since I'm a big lurker I can't PM you directly, but does the above solution still work? I live in the Netherlands, so I can get ahold of this product. I need to run a HDMI cable for 15m (50ft) from my computer room to my living room (OLED 65b6). 

Thanks for your help and hello to everyone else


----------



## Joe Fernand

Install a Fibre HDMI cable - anything else is a gamble/has limitations.

If Fibre is not an option and you have a spare CAT5/6 then go HDBT - though you have to recognise it won't support everything a PC may throw at it.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kwdtje

Fiber is a little too expensive for me at the moment, also not available in the Netherlands. Maybe in 2017 there will be some cheaper ones and available over here.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Netherlands - we ship kit over on a very regular basis from our office in Scotland.

2017 - I'll be at RAI in Feb (7th - 10th) visiting ISE, possibly we will see some new options in the Fibre market.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kwdtje

Joe Fernand said:


> Netherlands - we ship kit over on a very regular basis from our office in Scotland.
> 
> 2017 - I'll be at RAI in Feb (7th - 10th) visiting ISE, possibly we will see some new options in the Fibre market.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I wasn't aware of that, do you have a consumer webshop? Or only b2b?


----------



## Joe Fernand

No web store at present - it is on my never ending list of things 'To Do', drop us an email and we can answer any questions you have.

Joe


----------



## Phantomaudio

How about Active HDMI Cables? at 50feet?


----------



## Phantomaudio

I found these on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222330506008


----------



## jong1

You are welcome to try it!

The consensus opinion is that there is no active chipset guaranteed (or even likely) to work @18Gbps. It's especially unlikely to be true for some no-name cable through EBay. I tried a £300, 10M active cable from Chord and it worked worse than their premium passive cable, which could pass some HDMI 2.0 modes but not all - active components that can't work at the required bitrate are worse than no active component at all.

Next year there will likely be some new products, but for now you have a choice to try a lot of different cables, with good returns policy, in the hope something will work, or go fiber for a tried and tested solution.

When testing you need to be sure you are using an 18Gbps signal. Often this is not easy, as not all devices will say precisely what they are sending or receiving and what is sent can vary depending on the reported capabilities of your display, as possibly modified by any AVR. If you test with something like a UHD Blu-ray movie you are almost certainly using 4K/24 4:2:0 8-bit, 10-bit or 12-bit, all of which are significantly below 18Gbps and won't guarantee your cable can cope with all the demands of UHD sources.


----------



## Joe Fernand

As above the 'active' chip in the 'Active HDMI' cables is unlikely to be compliant with HDCP 2.2 and or able to pass the full bandwidth some UHD Sources can Output. 

For UHD you currently have:

Passive HDMI - works reliably up to 6m.

Active HDMI - the active chip is non replaceable so the cables can become obsolete.

HDMI over CAT - allows you to upgrade the Transmitter and Receiver components and use the installed CAT cable, HDBT is the best solution at present but does not cover you for everything some UHD Sources may be capable of.

HDMI over Fibre - at present is the only reliable solution to cater for everything UHD can throw at a long cable and the preferred design (Celerity Tek) allows you to upgrade the Transmitter and Receiver components and use the installed Fibre cable as UHD standards change.

Joe


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Perfectly stated Joe. It's definitely a time where you have to "pay to play."


----------



## laugsbach

I purchased my cable before I found this thread and see that I "lost" the lottery...

I have a Sammy K8500 connected with a 6' Monoprice Premium HDMI cable to my Denon 4300 AVR and out to my JVC RS400U PJ with a 35' Monoprice Cabernet active HDMI cable and the menu on the Sammy is not showing. I can load an UHD Blu-ray and hit play on the remote and the movie plays fine with the JVC showing 4K24 4:4:4 10 bit and at this point I can access the menu screen on the Sammy...I can eject the disc and I still see the menu screen.

I will live with this as I only use the Sammy for UHD Blu-ray playback and continue to use my Oppo 103 with region free mod to play 2D & 3D Blu-ray discs. The 8500 was an open box unit for 160 bucks on Black Friday and I will just move it to the bedroom when an affordable 35' cable comes around next year and I upgrade to the Oppo 203. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread...I have learned a lot!


----------



## Civik99si

My chain for past month has been PS3, Yamaha cxa5100, Jvc rs500. Using a 30 ft monoprice redmere HDMI. 

Just picked up a Oppo 203. The redmere cable was fine with 4K uhd content at 24fps. However, I had no image from ps4 at 4K 60. 

I swapped in a 30 ft Blue Jeans Series 1 and everything worked perfectly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Phantomaudio said:


> I found these on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222330506008


eBay? Good luck. Probably some cheap Chinese knock-off or counterfeit.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

That looks like a Monoprice Cabernet.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ it does indeed, but I'm a bit jaded about purchasing something off of eBay. Even if it is legit, no guarantee that it will work with every setup.


----------



## Antheo

My former projector did not have HDMI and it worked pretty well with a 30 feet component cable. 
I just received a Sony HW45ES and the 25 ft Bugubird HDMI cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013SPO3EC) I ordered does not seem to send a signal. I am not even trying to watch 4K. Not even the menu from the Blurry play is showing up. The Sony shows the no input icon. I grabbed a 15 ft Amazon HDMI cable i had and it worked. Is this a length issue or a brand issue ?
I was going to order the 25ft Amazon cable but it is not in stock until after Christmas. Any good High Speed 25 ft cable you recommend ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

In theory, any good quality passive high speed HDMI cable should work up to 25' or so if you're not trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. For 1080p they should be fine. Over 25', you might want to consider an active cable. Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge should work. The thicker the gauge wire the better but you lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI input. If you are running your cable in-wall, and are using a conduit, then swapping the cable out should be no problem if you have issues.


----------



## NorthSky

Would this work? It's a 10-meter* HDMI cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1T39SA8AUFT6J

Or is the Monoprice Luxe Series (35-foot, up to 50'), or/and Monoprice Cabernet Ultra (35-50') HDMI cables better candidates? 
* This is to be used with a 4K front projector and with a HDMI cable run between 35 and 50 feet. Thank u

By the way, none of the three above HDMI cables mentioned have that sticker ↓


----------



## NorthSky

Is this a better cable → http://store.transparentcable.com/hdmi-cables/high-performance/active-hdmi/ ?
______

♦ Which passive HDMI cable(s), say 40 to 50 feet long, would be best for a full UHD/HDR/4K home theater setup? 

And/or, would you recommend an active one in those long runs circumstances as a better choice/option? 

* Someone said this:

_"In general I would not use any HDMI cable that has active electronics that rely on power from HDMI. HDMI has a 5 volt supply that is designed for "hot plug" meaning detecting there is a device plugged in or not. That line cannot and must not be used to power anything. Doing so may cause failures because some devices put out far less current than others.

Of course many of these cables work but if you want to be on the safe side, don't go there."_
______

Any expert comments on that quote above? Tank u


----------



## Otto Pylot

The sticker you show just means that the cable has been certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) which is an independent testing facility that follows the standardized testing protocols for certification as set by HDMI Licensing. The sticker is designed to be counterfeit proof to guarantee authenticity. However, it does not guarantee that the cable will perform 100% of the time for all users given devices and setups. A lot of passive cables over about 20' may have issues with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz and certainly at over 40'. There is no guarantee so you just need to find one that works by trial and error.

I don't agree with the statement about active cables. Cables that use Redmere technology are designed for that very purpose, to draw a little bit of power from the HDMI input without damaging the input. I've used Redmere cables for years, as have others, without any issues at all. The only issue with an active cable is that either the chipsets may fail over time (like any other electronic device) or that the design of the chipsets are not current enough to properly handle the higher video standards as far as timing, error correction, etc. Active cables are meant to just increase the reliability of the signal path over longer distances, nothing more. You can't get better PQ/AQ using an active cable vs a passive cable. It either works or it doesn't. 

The Transparent cable specs say it is certified but it doesn't say by who (probably in-house certification so you have no idea what's involved in the process). It's an active cable so are they using the most current HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 chipsets (which are just becoming available)? What does data rates "up to 18Gbps" mean? Is it tested and certified for reliability at 18Gbps at 30, 40, 50, and 65', or are the cables just "batch tested"? The cable looks like it has a thicker AWG, which is good, but you will lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI inputs (hence the special mounting kit). The features listed are just HDMI 2.0 hardware specs, which any passive, high speed HDMI cable should be able to meet (with possibly the exception of the 18Gbps data rate (due to distance).

$840 for a 30' cable is just plain ridiculous, even if they can guarantee that it will perform as expected 100% of the time regardless of connected devices and setup (which I doubt). _Transparent High Performance Active HDMI video cable gives your home theater system a cleaner, brighter picture with more vibrant, lifelike colors and rich, dynamic sound from your music and movies._ - is marketing b.s.

I assume you will be installing in a conduit because no matter what kind of cable you purchase you will eventually be swapping it out as video demands increase. Connection technology is still lagging behind video technology. A lot of folks are having good luck with fiber optic cables such as the Celerity line of cables.


----------



## NorthSky

Thanks Otto for your above reply...Merry Christmas!

I was looking @ this active HDMI cable (10-meter), but couldn't find the MSRP? → http://www.kordz.com/documents/datasheets/Kordz PRS HDMI Cable Datasheet.pdf

- Length: 10.0m | 32'9"	
- Model: PRS-HD1000	
- AWG: 28	
- Technology: Spectra7 Active, Directional
______

EDIT: https://futurereadysolutions.com/product/prs-hd-active-series/


----------



## bluechunks

NorthSky said:


> I was looking @ this active HDMI cable (10-meter), but couldn't find the MSRP? → http://www.kordz.com/documents/datasheets/Kordz PRS HDMI Cable Datasheet.pdf


That cable only does 10Gbps. Not so hot for 4K. 

If you need a 10M cable get the 18Gbps Celerity Fibre Optic (not the one with wall plates) or wait until later in 2017 for rumored HDMI cables (with next-gen chips) that can actually do 18Gbps over longer distances.

Right now you won't find traditional active _or_ passive cables that can handle the bandwidth and cover the distance you require. Sadly you can currently only get bandwidth _or_ distance (choose one).


----------



## Joe Fernand

'Would this work' - ignore the marketing, you have no way to know 100% that any Passive, Active, Fibre or 'over CAT' solution will work in your system!

No passive cable is High Speed certified above 8m - no matter the price.

Any manufacture who talks about improving a video signal has to be questioned!

A cable is one component in an 'interactive' circuit so what works for one system may not work in another.

UHD is a big challenge on anything longer than 6m with a Passive HDMI cable - and all of the other solutions can be unpredictable at times.

What Sources do you need/want to support?

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NorthSky

bluechunks said:


> That cable only does 10Gbps. Not so hot for 4K.
> 
> If you need a 10M cable get the 18Gbps Celerity Fibre Optic (not the one with wall plates) or wait until later in 2017 for rumored HDMI cables (with next-gen chips) that can actually do 18Gbps over longer distances.
> 
> Right now you won't find traditional active _or_ passive cables that can handle the bandwidth and cover the distance you require. Sadly you can currently only get bandwidth _or_ distance (choose one).


Oh, ok I'll wait till next year to get a proper HDMI cable.
It's funny though, because in the first post of this thread that HDMI cable was recommended, and if you look @ the *Application Specifications* on some of the formats supported from that pdf link, it does mention ... *17.82Gbps*

_HDMI 2.0 mode, 8-bit 4:4:4, 10/12-bit 4:2:2 or 16-bit 4:2:0
2160p*/50/59.94/60-2D (CEA-861-F) ............................................................................ 5.94Gbpsc/17.82Gbps, 2.97GHz
2160p*30-3D.................................................................................................................. 5.94Gbpsc/17.82Gbps, 2.97GHz_

• http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...long-hdmi-cables-what-works.html#post45106042

_"I similarly found my generic 10M hdmi simply no go for uhd blu-ray. this was with samsung uhd blu-ray player, marantz AV8802A processor and feeding a jvc x7000/RS500 projector. 

myself living in the part of world I am, just got in touch with a local hdmi company thats been making cables for years at the quality end of the market. they straight off pointed me to their *PRS range of hdmi cables which they guaranteed for UHD blu-ray*. 

http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm

this is specifically the one I got ↑ 

I wasn't fully convinced however picked up from local retailer, theres a few around me that sell the brand with the confidence that could bring back if didnt. well I tried it for a week to be sure, throwing all could at it... and *it indeed worked*. it was only after a week of testing I then ran it though walls up and down walls under the house.

*and in the months that have followed I can absolutely confirm this works completely faultlessly for uhd blu-ray e.g. with the 13 or so uhd blu-rays I have now sent over the cable with no issue*."_



Joe Fernand said:


> 'Would this work' - ignore the marketing, you have no way to know 100% that any Passive, Active, Fibre or 'over CAT' solution will work in your system!
> 
> No passive cable is High Speed certified above 10m - no matter the price.
> 
> Any manufacture who talks about improving a video signal has to be questioned!
> 
> A cable is one component in an 'interactive' circuit so what works for one system may not work in another.
> 
> UHD is a big challenge on anything longer than 6m with a Passive HDMI cable - and all of the other solutions can be unpredictable at times.
> 
> What Sources do you need/want to support?
> 
> Joe


Oh, ok maybe in 2017 they'll have HDMI cables to use with 4K front projectors. Thanks, it all makes sense now; I couldn't find what I was looking for because it is not yet invented. Somebody is going to jump on the opportunity here and we'll see HDMI cables for $100,000 per foot! So, 100 feet that would be ... 

By the way, a good people from a solid "galaxy" just posted this earlier:

_ • http://www.hdmi.org/installers/longcablelengths.aspx

"Active Cables & Boosters
Using active electronics to boost and clean up the signal can effectively double the range of a standard twisted-copper HDMI cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters are the norm for this type of solution, which may be deployed as either a standalone signal management device, i.e., a repeater or booster box, or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable itself. Boxes are available in many configurations, usually incorporating both booster and equalization functions, and may also serve as repeaters or switchers. Active cables, on the other hand, embed the signal-enhancement electronics in the cable itself, with chips embedded in the connector housings. They are unidirectional, using different modules at the transmit and receive ends of the cable. All the technologies in this category require external power.

Beware products that draw power from the +5V power line. Although these may work in certain applications, different components draw varying amount of power from that line to communicate with each other. A cable that draws power from the HDMI cable may fail when components and the active components in the cable or external booster are all drawing from the same source."

There are many other references. Here is from CEDIA that advises the custom install industry that has to deal with HDMI day in and day out:
• http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_/images/R...ion_BP_ENG.pdf

"ACTIVE CABLES AND HOW TO PULL HDMI CABLES
Using cables with active electronics can boost and
clean up the signal and almost double the range of a
copper twisted cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters
are typical for this type of solution, which can either
be implemented through an HDCP-compliant repeater
or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable
itself. Active cables embed signal-enhancement
electronics in the cable itself. High speed channels in
HDMI are unidirectional so care should be taken during
installation to ensure proper directionality because a
lossy signal will need boosting at the same end of the
cable. Most of the solutions in this category require
external power. In fact, HDMI Licensing recommends
active (powered) extenders/boosters and recommends
that they be powered by a separate power supply [2]."

RedMere technology is cool if you need a much thinner cable and can test it before deploying it. If it works, then great. Just know that you are cutting corners on the spec if it doesn't and you run into strange problems."_
________

Someday we'll have HDMI cables that work reliably with 4K front projectors, for long runs say from 25 to 100 feet. 
...And for less than a $million dollars, like say from $25 to $100. ...$200 maximum for extra long runs. 
Maybe I'm just a dreamer ... 






Or this version works better?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Passive HDMI - when it works is ideal, getting it to work can be a challenge and many long cables are inflexible hosepipes which have a habit of detaching HDMI connectors and can place a lot of strain on your HDMI sockets.

Detachable Fibre HDMI cables - are the only option at present if you want a cable which can handle a full 4:4:4 signal at 2160p60, they are well within your million dollar budget 

HDMI over HDBT - is the next best option as you can install a couple of low cost CAT6 cables, attach the current Generation HDBT Extender technology and replace the Extender Technology at a later date when HDBT supports 4:4:4 at 2160p, 60fps.

https://www.facebook.com/TheMediaFactory/posts/10154868345480816:0

Active HDMI cables - we tend to avoid on installs as unlike HDBT we have no way to 'upgrade' the cable other than replace it, no small task on the majority of installs.

Active Repeaters - can be very effective though as they are designed to be installed into a cable run every 15m they can have limited use on installs, we (Octava Inc) will be updating our current product to support UHD in the near future.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ratman

Someone from Canada had a very bad Christmas.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Northsky - a separately powered HDMI extender would be ideal (HDBT for example) but reliable ones can be pricey. The nice thing about an active cable (Redmere) is that for most applications they work just fine, and are thin and flexible so they can make for a cleaner looking cable run. For 1080p over distances greater than 25', they work great. But they are not ideal for everyone for the reasons given. I've been using 3 different lengths of Redmere cables for a few years for 1080p and they are perfect. The original cost was reasonable as well. Given your length of run and what you are trying to push makes it more challenging. If you found a passive/active cable that works for you, then that's great. But not everyone will have the same luck. That's what we've been saying all along. Some work, some don't, so just try one that looks like it will meet your needs. I don't really trust all of the marketing b.s. and claims that cable mfrs make. You just don't know how they have certified/tested their cables so they can make those claims. I think a lot of them are just plain bogus, or they just take one cable out of a batch, lay it out straight, put a source at one end and a pattern generator at the other, and say it is certified for HDMI 2.0 at "up to 18Gbps" for any length that they offer. That's the idea behind certification. One set of standards that everyone follows so no matter where, or who you purchase your cable from, at least you know that the testing was done on a standardized platform. Unfortunately, that's not the case. HDMI in general is a real mess, but it's what we're stuck with for quite a while longer.


----------



## NorthSky

*UHD Blu-ray | HDMI Long Cable Runs | Someday it will be all replaced by some' better.*

The last three posts; very good. 

@Ratman, my Christmas was spectacularly splendid. 
______

Happy New Year!


----------



## NorthSky

Someone had good luck with this one (35-foot): https://www.clrtec.com/marketing/planetwaves/specsheets/PW HDMIE_LoRes.pdf ($200)

* Just passing along ...


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ those are just active cables with probably a thicker gauge wire, hence the special "locking" clip. With ethernet means nothing because there aren't any commercial devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel in HDMI. They may work, they may not work. Nothing special about them. And at $200....... caveat emptor.


----------



## Ratman

"Someone" has had good luck with a variety of cables. 
Problem is... there's not one that works for "everyone" (for a plethora of reasons). 

As stated in other threads/posts: "It depends".


----------



## cidsou

*Celerity Fibre*

I have a 40 foot HDMI run and am currently using the Monoprice Cabernet. While it is passing 4k, I know it has limitations. I am interested in the Celerity but have a question about powering.

My projector (JVC) does not have a USB port to power the cable. In addition, I am using a one outlet "powerbridge" for the projector. So powering options are limited. Are there any other options to power the fibre cable. (Maybe at the transmitting end??) 

Also, if I must have power at the display end, does it matter what type of USB power supply is used. In trying to keep a clean look, I have seen power outlets that have USB connections made into them. (I am trying to avoid a cell phone style adapter if possible).


----------



## jong1

You do need power at the display end (in fact you need power at both, but the source end normally gets it from the HDMI socket). You need 5V/1000mA USB, so pretty much any USB charger/socket should do.


----------



## cidsou

jong1 said:


> You do need power at the display end (in fact you need power at both, but the source end normally gets it from the HDMI socket). You need 5V/1000mA USB, so pretty much any USB charger/socket should do.



My fear is somehow "overpowering" it. That's why I was concerned what type of A/C power it needs. I wasn't sure if all AC to USB adapters put out about the same amount of juice.


----------



## cidsou

What is the best way to test the capabilities of my HDMI cable? I have the 40' redmere cabernet (monoprice) cables. I was under the impression this cable was unable to handle 18Gbps at this length.


I purchased the new Oppo 203 and tested every output option and it displays on my JVC projector. From what I understand 4K60, 4:4:4, 8 bit should be 18Gbps and when selected in the Oppo menu...it is being displayed by the JVC projector (I tested all the combos of UHD and everything was displaying) The Oppo manual states if a resolution is selected which the display is not capable of, there will be a blank screen.


Am I testing this correctly? Does this mean my HDMI cable is handling 18Gbps or am I missing something? 


I was going to order the Celerity HDMI fiber, but I wonder if its necessary....


----------



## Dave Vaughn

If you are getting a picture, then you should be OK, which is shocking since not one that I've tested from Monoprice has passed (Only their "Certified" cables passed).


----------



## jong1

Sounds like you are very lucky. Congrats! But, just check carefully that you are not even seeing "sparkles" - little single pixel dots of light occasionally appearing for a fraction of a second on the screen. These can be very hard to spot in most scenes but stand out very dramatically against a black background e.g. black sky or the credits at the end of a movie. If the signal is good enough to sync reliably this is the last hurdle to cross.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

After reading most of the posts on this thread, it seems like Celerity HDMI Fiber Optic cables are the ideal choice, even if it's pricey. My hope is that more companies will give Celerity some competition and push down the prices. In the meantime, I'd like to ask anyone who has already bought Celerity cables to recommend a seller that they had a good experience (good price, customer service, etc). I'm quite possibly going to buy a Celerity HDMI cable sometime in the next year or so.


----------



## StephenBishop

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> After reading most of the posts on this thread, it seems like Celerity HDMI Fiber Optic cables are the ideal choice, even if it's pricey. My hope is that more companies will give Celerity some competition and push down the prices. In the meantime, I'd like to ask anyone who has already bought Celerity cables to recommend a seller that they had a good experience (good price, customer service, etc). I'm quite possibly going to buy a Celerity HDMI cable sometime in the next year or so.


I bought the 50ft Celerity DFO cable from MyCablemart (http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6562) about 3 months ago. Slightly cheaper at that time (I think I paid about 10% less at that time). Works great direct from the Panny UB900 to my Sony PJ VW5000ES, but unstable if I connect the Panny using the supplied 2 metre cable to my Marantz 8802A pre--pro and the Celerity DFO from the Marantz pre-pro to my Sony PJ.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

StephenBishop said:


> I bought the 50ft Celerity DFO cable from MyCablemart (http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6562) about 3 months ago. Slightly cheaper at that time (I think I paid about 10% less at that time). Works great direct from the Panny UB900 to my Sony PJ VW5000ES, but unstable if I connect the Panny using the supplied 2 metre cable to my Marantz 8802A pre--pro and the Celerity DFO from the Marantz pre-pro to my Sony PJ.


Wow, that sounds like a huge disappointment. How unstable is it exactly? How often does it drop out? Do you think it has something more to do with your pre-pro and/or 2 meter cable rather than the Celerity cable?


----------



## StephenBishop

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Wow, that sounds like a huge disappointment. How unstable is it exactly? How often does it drop out? Do you think it has something more to do with your pre-pro and/or 2 meter cable rather than the Celerity cable?


Panny to Marantz 8802A using the supplied 2 metre hdmi cable and from Marantz 8802A to Sony VW5000ES using the Celerity 50' DFO cable- the connection at 4K 60P 444 8 bits or 4K 60P 422 12 bits. is too unstable to be usable with signal drop outs every minute or so. I contacted Neil Marriott., a tech support at MyCableMart, on the unstable connection via the Marantz 8802A and asked for his recommendation on a solution to the problem and this is what he said:

"The product is an HDMI CERTIFIED PRODUCT at 18Gbps. You have proved this out yourself as when you run it DIRECTLY from your source to your projector, you are getting full 4K support at 18Gbps. MANY customers are running into issues when further running an HDMI signal through ANY kind of receiver that the support for 18Gbps stops. This is NOT the issue of the FIBER HDMI cable. Even when you use a certified 18Gbps cable from the source to your receiver, and all components are fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 specifications, you can expect these kinds of issues.

We have no advice or suggestions – other than POSSIBLY trying a short HDMI cable such as this:

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4097

Again, we can not guarantee success, and suggest instead that you NOT run your HDMI signal through your receiver – but direct to the projector. Then possibly use a toslink optical cable to provide your receiver with your necessary audio feed."

So per Mr. Marriott, "MANY customers are running into issues when further running an HDMI signal through ANY kind of receiver that the support for 18Gbps stops. This is NOT the issue of the FIBER HDMI cable. Even when you use a certified 18Gbps cable from the source to your receiver, and all components are fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 specifications, you can expect these kinds of issues." Kind of interesting that his proposed solution to the problem with the Celerity 50' DFO cable was to use short cable!

I should add though that Dave Vaughn in his Sound and Vision review (http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ually-pass-hdmi-20-page-2#jeTOEEvBFB5kHtlU.97) has indicated that the Celerity 50' DFO passed a 4K 60P 444 @ 8 bits signal through his Marantz 8802A pre-pro! So it is possible that the hdmi out on my Marantz 8802A pre-pro is problematic and the Celerity cable is not the problem- but I cannot be sure either way.


----------



## jong1

I would definitely try some different 2M cables - ideally premium certified. I would not trust any cable @18Gbps just because it was "supplied". I went through 6 1M High Speed cables - some were Audioquest Pearl and Forest, so hardly cheap, before finding some that work.

That said, I think this year's AVRs do struggle to cleanly pass 18Gbps. My Yamaha 2060 works perfectly up to 13.8Gbps, but at 18Gbps, with known good cables, Celerity DFO to display, the picture is constant but I still get "sparkles". Almost impossible to see in most scenes, but very visible against a static black/dark background. Using the 2nd HDMI Out from the AVR it doesn't even sync reliably, so clearly an AVR issue. I tried several different AVRs with the support of my dealer and they all behaved slightly differently - more or less sparkles. It has been escalated to Japan for further investigation.


----------



## StephenBishop

jong1 said:


> I would definitely try some different 2M cables - ideally premium certified. I would not trust any cable @18Gbps just because it was "supplied". I went through 6 1M High Speed cables - some were Audioquest Pearl and Forest, so hardly cheap, before finding some that work.


Thanks, Jong1. I am going to give that a try! Apart from Monoprice cannot seem to find any other Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable! Any suggestions?


----------



## jong1

StephenBishop said:


> Thanks, Jong1. I am going to give that a try! Apart from Monoprice cannot seem to find any other Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable! Any suggestions?


Blue Jeans are a good alternative.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

StephenBishop said:


> Panny to Marantz 8802A using the supplied 2 metre hdmi cable and from Marantz 8802A to Sony VW5000ES using the Celerity 50' DFO cable- the connection at 4K 60P 444 8 bits or 4K 60P 422 12 bits. is too unstable to be usable with signal drop outs every minute or so. I contacted Neil Marriott., a tech support at MyCableMart, on the unstable connection via the Marantz 8802A and asked for his recommendation on a solution to the problem and this is what he said:
> 
> "The product is an HDMI CERTIFIED PRODUCT at 18Gbps. You have proved this out yourself as when you run it DIRECTLY from your source to your projector, you are getting full 4K support at 18Gbps. MANY customers are running into issues when further running an HDMI signal through ANY kind of receiver that the support for 18Gbps stops. This is NOT the issue of the FIBER HDMI cable. Even when you use a certified 18Gbps cable from the source to your receiver, and all components are fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 specifications, you can expect these kinds of issues.
> 
> We have no advice or suggestions – other than POSSIBLY trying a short HDMI cable such as this:
> 
> http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4097
> 
> Again, we can not guarantee success, and suggest instead that you NOT run your HDMI signal through your receiver – but direct to the projector. Then possibly use a toslink optical cable to provide your receiver with your necessary audio feed."
> 
> So per Mr. Marriott, "MANY customers are running into issues when further running an HDMI signal through ANY kind of receiver that the support for 18Gbps stops. This is NOT the issue of the FIBER HDMI cable. Even when you use a certified 18Gbps cable from the source to your receiver, and all components are fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 specifications, you can expect these kinds of issues." Kind of interesting that his proposed solution to the problem with the Celerity 50' DFO cable was to use short cable!
> 
> I should add though that Dave Vaughn in his Sound and Vision review (http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ually-pass-hdmi-20-page-2#jeTOEEvBFB5kHtlU.97) has indicated that the Celerity 50' DFO passed a 4K 60P 444 @ 8 bits signal through his Marantz 8802A pre-pro! So it is possible that the hdmi out on my Marantz 8802A pre-pro is problematic and the Celerity cable is not the problem- but I cannot be sure either way.


Ah that's rough. Maybe try connecting your 2M cable directly from the player to the projector and see if you get any problems at 18gbps. If both HDMI cables work perfectly fine when connecting directly (at 18gbps), then I'd say it's the pre-pro that's having trouble passing through 18gbps. It might be just your particular unit since as you mentioned David Vaughn tested it in all the different ways and said it passed, all while using the same model pre-pro as yours. So yeah, it might be an HDMI output issue with your particular unit. Maybe try a different HDMI output? Or maybe it might be a passthrough issue with a chip or something on the inside and not the output connector.


----------



## bluechunks

jong1 said:


> That said, I think this year's AVRs do struggle to cleanly pass 18Gbps. My Yamaha 2060 works perfectly up to 13.8Gbps, but at 18Gbps, with known good cables, Celerity DFO to display, the picture is constant but I still get "sparkles". Almost impossible to see in most scenes, but very visible against a static black/dark background. Using the 2nd HDMI Out from the AVR it doesn't even sync reliably, so clearly an AVR issue. I tried several different AVRs with the support of my dealer and they all behaved slightly differently - more or less sparkles. It has been escalated to Japan for further investigation.


FWIW, I also have a 2060 and Celerity DFO cable. I'm not having any problems @ 18Gpbs so I'm quite curious to the resolution of your problem.

Here's a stupid question that I'm almost afraid to ask (on the assumption that you are well aware the issues involved) but do you have the original Celerity DFO (that was only good for ~13Gbps) or the newer revision that is specifically rated for 18Gbps?


----------



## StephenBishop

bluechunks said:


> FWIW, I also have a 2060 and Celerity DFO cable. I'm not having any problems @ 18Gpbs so I'm quite curious to the resolution of your problem.
> 
> Here's a stupid question that I'm almost afraid to ask (on the assumption that you are well aware the issues involved) but do you have the original Celerity DFO (that was only good for ~13Gbps) or the newer revision that is specifically rated for 18Gbps?


Yes, I have the 18 Gbps rated Celerity DFO cable- so that is not the problem.


----------



## jong1

Ditto. Actually I was first shipped the old version, which had much more severe issues and the new version fixed them. I'm totally confident in the Celerity cable. It works direct with all my sources, as do my other HDMI cables.

These sparkles are a truly marginal issue that would be quite easy to miss, especially as many do not even know when/if they are actually pushing 18Gbps. The fact the two HDMI ports perform differently kinda confirms to me the AVR is struggling. I actually tested a 3060 which seemed fine, but HDMI is supposed to be the same in both, so maybe it comes down to component variability. But I'm still waiting for Japan to reply. This is clearly an issue tailor made for finger pointing! It just illustrates again how hard 18Gbps is.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

bluechunks said:


> FWIW, I also have a 2060 and Celerity DFO cable. I'm not having any problems @ 18Gpbs so I'm quite curious to the resolution of your problem.
> 
> Here's a stupid question that I'm almost afraid to ask (on the assumption that you are well aware the issues involved) but do you have the original Celerity DFO (that was only good for ~13Gbps) or the newer revision that is specifically rated for 18Gbps?


Hey, just curious? Where did you get your Celerity cable from? I'm trying to get a good price on a 50 feet cable as well as trying to avoid any older 13gbps wires possibly still roaming around some third party seller websites.


----------



## bluechunks

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Hey, just curious? Where did you get your Celerity cable from?


Got lucky with an "open box" one from a major US retailer. Figured I could always return it if was the 13Gbps one or if it didn't work. Turns out it was truly an open box as the fiber had obviously never been un-spooled.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Hey, just curious? Where did you get your Celerity cable from? I'm trying to get a good price on a 50 feet cable as well as trying to avoid any older 13gbps wires possibly still roaming around some third party seller websites.


I believe you can buy directly from their website.


----------



## ccool96

StephenBishop said:


> I bought the 50ft Celerity DFO cable from MyCablemart (http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6562) about 3 months ago. Slightly cheaper at that time (I think I paid about 10% less at that time). Works great direct from the Panny UB900 to my Sony PJ VW5000ES, but unstable if I connect the Panny using the supplied 2 metre cable to my Marantz 8802A pre--pro and the Celerity DFO from the Marantz pre-pro to my Sony PJ.


So I thought I some additional information since I have multiple Celerity Fiber cables installed currently. 

I have 3 Celerity 18Gbps cables at the 60' length. Two currently are installed, and the third was used for troubleshooting.

I have one running from a Yamaha RXA3060 to a Sony 5000ES 4K Laser projector. This setup works flawless when pushed to the full 18gbps. I have no issue with the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra which outputs 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR. 

I have the other running from a Yamaha RXA760 to a JVC RS600 projector. The JVC projector will not sync to an 18Gbps signal when passed thru the Yamaha receiver. If I use the same cable direct from sources to the RS600 it works fine. I even switched up gear trying different receivers and another Celerity cable. No matter what the JVC will not sync to 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR from either the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra, when those sources are run thru the receiver. It will sync to either source when fed directly with the Celerity cable. 

This wasn't an issue for the Panasonic since I could just output 4k/60 4:2:0, but the Roku ultra require 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR, when it is setup for a 4K HDR display. 

I have tried tons of different cables both "Certified" and not, and never could get the JVC to sync to these full 18Gbps sources with the receiver connected. 

I ended up buying an HD Fury Linker, and use it to convert the output of the Roku Ultra from 4K/60 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12 bit HDR to 4K/60 4:2:0 12bit. This limits the output of the Roku to 13.37Gbps. That works perfectly with the receiver. Good news is the new OS 7.5 for Roku is suppose to give the option for 4K/60 4:2:0 10 bit HDR output which would keep the signal at 11.14 Gbps. 

Bottom line, I never could eliminate the problem, and just had to work around it. But since I was able to test with multiple Celerity Fiber cables, multiple receivers, and multiple projectors, the only combination that had a problem was using the JVC RS600 with a receiver. The Sony 5000ES worked with both Yamaha receivers and all 3 Celerity cables. The JVC would not work at 18Gbps with either Yamaha receiver connected between the source. The only way the JVC would sync at the full 18Gbps was when directly connected to a source.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ccool96 said:


> So I thought I some additional information since I have multiple Celerity Fiber cables installed currently.
> 
> I have 3 Celerity 18Gbps cables at the 60' length. Two currently are installed, and the third was used for troubleshooting.
> 
> I have one running from a Yamaha RXA3060 to a Sony 5000ES 4K Laser projector. This setup works flawless when pushed to the full 18gbps. I have no issue with the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra which outputs 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR.
> 
> I have the other running from a Yamaha RXA760 to a JVC RS600 projector. The JVC projector will not sync to an 18Gbps signal when passed thru the Yamaha receiver. If I use the same cable direct from sources to the RS600 it works fine. I even switched up gear trying different receivers and another Celerity cable. No matter what the JVC will not sync to 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR from either the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra, when those sources are run thru the receiver. It will sync to either source when fed directly with the Celerity cable.
> 
> This wasn't an issue for the Panasonic since I could just output 4k/60 4:2:0, but the Roku ultra require 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR, when it is setup for a 4K HDR display.
> 
> I have tried tons of different cables both "Certified" and not, and never could get the JVC to sync to these full 18Gbps sources with the receiver connected.
> 
> I ended up buying an HD Fury Linker, and use it to convert the output of the Roku Ultra from 4K/60 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12 bit HDR to 4K/60 4:2:0 12bit. This limits the output of the Roku to 13.37Gbps. That works perfectly with the receiver. Good news is the new OS 7.5 for Roku is suppose to give the option for 4K/60 4:2:0 10 bit HDR output which would keep the signal at 11.14 Gbps.
> 
> Bottom line, I never could eliminate the problem, and just had to work around it. But since I was able to test with multiple Celerity Fiber cables, multiple receivers, and multiple projectors, the only combination that had a problem was using the JVC RS600 with a receiver. The Sony 5000ES worked with both Yamaha receivers and all 3 Celerity cables. The JVC would not work at 18Gbps with either Yamaha receiver connected between the source. The only way the JVC would sync at the full 18Gbps was when directly connected to a source.


Then I think there's an issue with the receiver, not necessarily the projector.


----------



## ccool96

Dave Vaughn said:


> Then I think there's an issue with the receiver, not necessarily the projector.


Maybe so, but if thats the case why does both the Yamaha RXA3060 and RXA760 have no problem passing the full 18Gbps using the same Celerity cable to the Sony 5000ES? Yet the JVC fails to receive the signal properly?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ It could be the version of HDMI chipsets used.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ccool96 said:


> So I thought I some additional information since I have multiple Celerity Fiber cables installed currently.
> 
> I have 3 Celerity 18Gbps cables at the 60' length. Two currently are installed, and the third was used for troubleshooting.
> 
> I have one running from a Yamaha RXA3060 to a Sony 5000ES 4K Laser projector. This setup works flawless when pushed to the full 18gbps. I have no issue with the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra which outputs 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR.
> 
> I have the other running from a Yamaha RXA760 to a JVC RS600 projector. The JVC projector will not sync to an 18Gbps signal when passed thru the Yamaha receiver. If I use the same cable direct from sources to the RS600 it works fine. I even switched up gear trying different receivers and another Celerity cable. No matter what the JVC will not sync to 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bit or 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR from either the Panasonic UHD player or the Roku Ultra, when those sources are run thru the receiver. It will sync to either source when fed directly with the Celerity cable.
> 
> This wasn't an issue for the Panasonic since I could just output 4k/60 4:2:0, but the Roku ultra require 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR, when it is setup for a 4K HDR display.
> 
> I have tried tons of different cables both "Certified" and not, and never could get the JVC to sync to these full 18Gbps sources with the receiver connected.
> 
> I ended up buying an HD Fury Linker, and use it to convert the output of the Roku Ultra from 4K/60 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12 bit HDR to 4K/60 4:2:0 12bit. This limits the output of the Roku to 13.37Gbps. That works perfectly with the receiver. Good news is the new OS 7.5 for Roku is suppose to give the option for 4K/60 4:2:0 10 bit HDR output which would keep the signal at 11.14 Gbps.
> 
> Bottom line, I never could eliminate the problem, and just had to work around it. But since I was able to test with multiple Celerity Fiber cables, multiple receivers, and multiple projectors, the only combination that had a problem was using the JVC RS600 with a receiver. The Sony 5000ES worked with both Yamaha receivers and all 3 Celerity cables. The JVC would not work at 18Gbps with either Yamaha receiver connected between the source. The only way the JVC would sync at the full 18Gbps was when directly connected to a source.


Sorry to hear that it doesn't work in every combination. On the other hand, congratulations on having one solid projector in the JVC (regardless of the sync issues, it's still a great piece of gear) and another INCREDIBLE projector in the Sony 5000es. Other than maybe the Barco Thor, that'd be the projector of my dreams for home cinema use. Anyway, all this talk about receivers being a possibly culprit or accomplice in these signal pass failures has gotten me a bit nervous about my current AV receiver.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

As I mentioned before, all this talk about AV receivers possibly adding to the problem of failing to pass 18gbps is making me uneasy. As if worrying about long cables weren't enough. I am currently running a Samsung JS8500 (2015) HDR-capable TV with a Marantz SR5010 and a Samsung K8500 4K blu-ray player. Right now, I'm using the dual-HDMI output on the K8500 because my current HDMI cable running from the Marantz to my TV is 50ft and a failure when it comes to passing 18gbps (even running [email protected], Rec. 2020, and 10-bit pixel depth is a flop). Hence my interest in the Celerity fiber cables. But now I'm getting a headache worrying that even if the Celerity cables work flawlessly, my Marantz might disappoint me as well by failing to properly pass through 18gbps. I guess I'll just have to try it and find out. Anyway, thanks everyone for all your advice and input.


----------



## alebonau

as a note .... on a couple of occasions at least. I have booted up wiht the oppo feeding through the marantz and through to my jvc x7000/pio kuro to then not have a menu screen...ie black screen.

I've found power cycling the marantz has fixed this and end up with an oppo main menu...not a huge bother....and only a couple of times in goodness knows how many times have switched the system on,

in anycase i understand oppo will have a fix for their main menu so NOT pumping out pretty much 18GBps... so hopefully in distant future... this will be fixed...

and hopefully the marantz is not having the hi-cups...

ps since its happening with both the pio kuro and jvc x7000 I know this cant be cable related.


----------



## jong1

I just wish all devices would have an option to mandate 4K/60 4:2:0 8/10/12-bit in preference to 4:2:2 12-bit or 4:4:4 8-bit. All video is 4:2:0 originally anyway. Pretty much all that would be at all negatively affected would be PC Gaming and display of photos and, honestly, the difference is so tiny (hence why 4:2:0 is considered OK even for UHD Blu-ray) that it is unnoticeable to most.

Frustratingly, Yamaha AVRs claim to have exactly this. They have in their advanced setup "4K Mode 1" and "4K Mode 2". In the manual it says "Mode 2" "inputs/outputs 4K 50/60 Hz signals in 4:2:0 format". However, it has been confirmed in writing by Yamaha that in fact it removes all video modes, including 24/30Hz modes with a bit rate >9Gbps, so stopping all 4K 10-bit/12-bit modes and useless for HDR display. For Yamaha owners it's worth adding the AVR ships with Mode 2 as the DEFAULT, so without changing this setting your AVR will never pass 4K BT.2020/HDR. The HDR metadata does pass regardless, so your display may switch to HDR mode, even though the bit depth is not there.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ccool96 said:


> Maybe so, but if thats the case why does both the Yamaha RXA3060 and RXA760 have no problem passing the full 18Gbps using the same Celerity cable to the Sony 5000ES? Yet the JVC fails to receive the signal properly?


The JVC does have a finicky HDMI handshake, which is why it takes so long to sync so it could be contributing to the problem. Maybe the combo of the JVC and the Yamaha isn't a match made in heaven???


----------



## davisnub

so how many people have tried the blue jeans cable at 30ft+ lengths and been successful? I'm debating whether to give it a shot or not.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

30 foot "may" work depending on how many bends you have in the cable. Anything longer than 30 feet probably won't work.


----------



## ereed

Most projectors have at least 2 HDMI inputs and very good bluray players have dual hdmi as well. I don't see why people don't just run hdmi straight from bluray player to the projector to avoid the AVR hdmi issues. And then just run seperate hdmi or analog cables from player to AVR for audio. That alone will probably solve many people's problems.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ereed said:


> Most projectors have at least 2 HDMI inputs and very good bluray players have dual hdmi as well. I don't see why people don't just run hdmi straight from bluray player to the projector to avoid the AVR hdmi issues. And then just run seperate hdmi or analog cables from player to AVR for audio. That alone will probably solve many people's problems.


Yeah, I hear you. That's what I'm doing right now. I have the Samsung K8500. I'm using the player's main HDMI out for picture and the HDMI audio output back to my receiver for audio only. I consider it a temporary solution, though and I still would much prefer to have a Celerity cable from my receiver's HDMI output to my TV/projector and run everything through that. My TV is too far away and I can only use 40ft+ HDMI cables for a TV & AV receiver connection. One of the things that's kind of annoying right now is, when I want to see/change the volume, I have to look at my cell phone to see how many dB exactly I'm playing at. Or I have to turn my head backwards to look at receiver's display on the AV rack. I also like to press info on my AV receiver remote to see what input signal I'm getting and what audio track I'm processing (Dolby TrueHD, DTS:X, Atmos, etc). Again, I'd have to look at my cell phone & Marantz mobile app for that. Plus, whenever I pause, the AV receiver changes the input to "TV Audio" and I have to press "Blu-ray" to regain audio when I unpause. It's not a big deal, but it's not ideal. Plus, a good HDMI cable like the Celerity fiber optical ones are more future proof. That way, if I hook up my receiver to my TV/projector with that cable, then I'll be set for several years into the future. Who knows what other AV components in the future will push up to 18gbps to higher? If I hook more of those components into my AV receiver's HDMI inputs, I need all my cables to be ready for it, especially my long HDMI out from the receiver to my display.


----------



## ereed

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Yeah, I hear you. That's what I'm doing right now. I have the Samsung K8500. I'm using the player's main HDMI out for picture and the HDMI audio output back to my receiver for audio only. I consider it a temporary solution, though and I still would much prefer to have a Celerity cable from my receiver's HDMI output to my TV/projector and run everything through that. My TV is too far away and I can only use 40ft+ HDMI cables for a TV & AV receiver connection. One of the things that's kind of annoying right now is, when I want to see/change the volume, I have to look at my cell phone to see how many dB exactly I'm playing at. Or I have to turn my head backwards to look at receiver's display on the AV rack. I also like to press info on my AV receiver remote to see what input signal I'm getting and what audio track I'm processing (Dolby TrueHD, DTS:X, Atmos, etc). Again, I'd have to look at my cell phone & Marantz mobile app for that. Plus, whenever I pause, the AV receiver changes the input to "TV Audio" and I have to press "Blu-ray" to regain audio when I unpause. It's not a big deal, but it's not ideal. Plus, a good HDMI cable like the Celerity fiber optical ones are more future proof. That way, if I hook up my receiver to my TV/projector with that cable, then I'll be set for several years into the future. Who knows what other AV components in the future will push up to 18gbps to higher? If I hook more of those components into my AV receiver's HDMI inputs, I need all my cables to be ready for it, especially my long HDMI out from the receiver to my display.


Unless they come out with another new video cable that uses a different type of connector.....then we are all screwed. LOL


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Yeah, I hear you. That's what I'm doing right now. I have the Samsung K8500. I'm using the player's main HDMI out for picture and the HDMI audio output back to my receiver for audio only. I consider it a temporary solution, though and I still would much prefer to have a Celerity cable from my receiver's HDMI output to my TV/projector and run everything through that. My TV is too far away and I can only use 40ft+ HDMI cables for a TV & AV receiver connection. One of the things that's kind of annoying right now is, when I want to see/change the volume, I have to look at my cell phone to see how many dB exactly I'm playing at. Or I have to turn my head backwards to look at receiver's display on the AV rack. I also like to press info on my AV receiver remote to see what input signal I'm getting and what audio track I'm processing (Dolby TrueHD, DTS:X, Atmos, etc). Again, I'd have to look at my cell phone & Marantz mobile app for that. Plus, whenever I pause, the AV receiver changes the input to "TV Audio" and I have to press "Blu-ray" to regain audio when I unpause. It's not a big deal, but it's not ideal. Plus, a good HDMI cable like the Celerity fiber optical ones are more future proof. That way, if I hook up my receiver to my TV/projector with that cable, then I'll be set for several years into the future. Who knows what other AV components in the future will push up to 18gbps to higher? If I hook more of those components into my AV receiver's HDMI inputs, I need all my cables to be ready for it, especially my long HDMI out from the receiver to my display.


Changing source inputs when you pause sounds like a CEC issue.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ereed said:


> Unless they come out with another new video cable that uses a different type of connector.....then we are all screwed. LOL


Lol, yeah I hope not. I've been hearing about SuperMHL and how it can do [email protected], etc etc etc. I know that the HDMI connector head can do [email protected] even if the rest of the cable's copper wire can't. Since Celerity has a detachable connector head, maybe we can just change that in the future. Whether it'd be an upgraded HDMI head or a change to SuperMHL.


----------



## davisnub

Dave Vaughn said:


> 30 foot "may" work depending on how many bends you have in the cable. Anything longer than 30 feet probably won't work.


Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to measure the run and see exactly how long it will take. 35 was my best estimate visually.


----------



## appelz

StephenBishop said:


> Thanks, Jong1. I am going to give that a try! Apart from Monoprice cannot seem to find any other Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable! Any suggestions?


DPLLabs.com


----------



## Dave Vaughn

davisnub said:


> Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to measure the run and see exactly how long it will take. 35 was my best estimate visually.


At 35 feet, you may be looking at fiber as your best option.


----------



## alebonau

Dave Vaughn said:


> At 35 feet, you may be looking at fiber as your best option.



wht about the monster black platinum UHD hdmi cable good for 27 Gbps apparently ?
https://monsterproducts.com.au/shop/cables/hdmi/black-platinum-ultrahd-hdmi-cable

wasnt this one you tested at $179 for the 35ft/10m seems a lot more affordable and lot lot more durable than fibre...

id be pretty nervous running fibre under the house up walls and through wall cavities and like I can tell you


----------



## Dave Vaughn

alebonau said:


> wht about the monster black platinum UHD hdmi cable good for 27 Gbps apparently ?
> https://monsterproducts.com.au/shop/cables/hdmi/black-platinum-ultrahd-hdmi-cable
> 
> wasnt this one you tested at $179 for the 35ft/10m seems a lot more affordable and lot lot more durable than fibre...
> 
> id be pretty nervous running fibre under the house up walls and through wall cavities and like I can tell you


I tested it in my first round and it failed.


----------



## alebonau

Dave Vaughn said:


> I tested it in my first round and it failed.


thats amazing isnt it ..... and yet they claim 27 Gbps ????


----------



## Dave Vaughn

alebonau said:


> thats amazing isnt it ..... and yet they claim 27 Gbps ????


Monster is pretty famous for making bold marketing claims.


----------



## StephenBishop

appelz said:


> DPLLabs.com


 Thanks appelz. I ordered the 6' certified premium high speed cable from Monoprice. At $3.82 per piece one cannot go too wrong even if it does not succeed in making my Celerity cable work through my Marantz pre-pro.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

StephenBishop said:


> Thanks appelz. I ordered the 6' certified premium high speed cable from Monoprice. At $3.82 per piece one cannot go too wrong even if it does not succeed in making my Celerity cable work through my Marantz pre-pro.


Report back once you get it.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

It looks like our long cable issues might have a new challenge in 2017, even though it's great for technological advancement in general. I wonder if Celerity fiber optic HDMI cables can handle these new demands.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/hdmi-forum-announces-version-21-spec#JFq766YGQrOPlQvm.97


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Good luck with 48GBPS...geezus.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> Good luck with 48GBPS...geezus.


Yeah, I saw that in another post and commented. Some folks just don't get it.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Dave Vaughn said:


> Good luck with 48GBPS...geezus.


Yeah. Unless used 12AWG or thicker wire per strand...


----------



## scarabaeus

I'm pretty sure anything over 6 or 10 feet at 48 Gbit/s will require optical cables. Hopefully, if they become more of a mass product, that will have a positive effect on prices.

Good thing about optical is really that the length matters little for the cost, it's all in the end pieces. (contrary to Celerity's pricing scheme)


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

scarabaeus said:


> I'm pretty sure anything over 6 or 10 feet at 48 Gbit/s will require optical cables. Hopefully, if they become more of a mass product, that will have a positive effect on prices.
> 
> Good thing about optical is really that the length matters little for the cost, it's all in the end pieces. (contrary to Celerity's pricing scheme)


Yeah, like I said, I just hope later in the future, Celerity will sell the detachable converter head separately and you can just update that every time the HDMI specs get bumped up. Or if they switch to another connector like SuperMHL. I'm pretty sure that 48gbps and probably even 1tbps is a piece of cake for a strand of optical fiber. I mean...does anyone know if there's anything faster than the speed of light? The bottleneck or weakest spots on the cable will always be at the connector heads instead of the actual fiber strand itself.


----------



## Otto Pylot

aaranddeeman said:


> Yeah. Unless used 12AWG or thicker wire per strand...


Looks like I'll need to reinstall conduit. Maybe a 10" pipe will do


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Otto Pylot said:


> Looks like I'll need to reinstall conduit. Maybe a 10" pipe will do


There's going to be a run on sewage pipe, which is what we're going to be needing later this year to have a conduit big enough


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> There's going to be a run on sewage pipe, which is what we're going to be needing later this year to have a conduit big enough


Yep. It's funny how many folks are startin' to pop woodies over HDMI 2.1 when HDMI 2.0a is difficult to achieve reliably for most. Of course that won't stop the mfrs (tv and cables) from pushing the new specification onto unsuspecting customers.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. It's funny how many folks are startin' to pop woodies over HDMI 2.1 when HDMI 2.0a is difficult to achieve reliably for most. Of course that won't stop the mfrs (tv and cables) from pushing the new specification onto unsuspecting customers.


What kills me is all this data could be sent via Cat6 cable with ease without the need for HDMI at all, but then again, cables are a HUGE profit center in the CE world and we'll never see that happen.


----------



## brianlvi3

Dave Vaughn said:


> There's going to be a run on sewage pipe, which is what we're going to be needing later this year to have a conduit big enough


Hah, now that is funny but maybe not far off.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> What kills me is all this data could be sent via Cat6 cable with ease without the need for HDMI at all, but then again, cables are a HUGE profit center in the CE world and we'll never see that happen.


Yep. A good quality solid core CAT-6a (not any of that cheap Chinese CCS/A stuff or etherenet patch) cable would more than likely work. And as soon as the active connectors can be upgraded to the current HDMI chipsets, longer lengths can at least be achieved. Easy to replace the connector ends as well once the need arises and they become available. Similar to what Celerity does with their fiber optic cables but much cheaper. And, with the use of a conduit (prefereably 1.5" - 2.0" ) life would be easier. Flashy ads and bold claims still grabs the consumer.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. A good quality solid core CAT-6a (not any of that cheap Chinese CCS/A stuff or etherenet patch) cable would more than likely work. And as soon as the active connectors can be upgraded to the current HDMI chipsets, longer lengths can at least be achieved. Easy to replace the connector ends as well once the need arises and they become available. Similar to what Celerity does with their fiber optic cables but much cheaper. And, with the use of a conduit (prefereably 1.5" - 2.0" ) life would be easier. Flashy ads and bold claims still grabs the consumer.


Oh there will still be bold claims and high prices, just like this one: https://www.amazon.com/WIREWORLD-St...1483654805&sr=8-1&keywords=wireworld+ethernet


----------



## alebonau

have updated the opening post...

its a new year and an update is required...

with the oppo 203 landing on us... I ofcourse like a blind fool decided to get one... ah to my suprise first thing I find is the oppo main menu their engineers in their infinite wisdom have decided to push through at a whisker under hdmi max bandwidth ....of gee you'd think this would have been something they learnt from samsungs debacle...

anyways so now I go from a samsung that works seamlessly to an oppo where I cant even get the menu up.

a week after ownership with some help from forum buddies find a solution i.e. everything on auto with oppo and only change is color space to 4:2:0 which is same format for disc and it works seamlessly across formats(dvd, blu-ray and UHD blu-ray) so all good with my current cable the kordz prs linked to earlier in this thread.

however,

I noted JAV was using a 10m hdmi cable and having luck across both the pana, sammy and pc for 4k so happened to ask what it was ?

turned out a cable from office works of all places ! 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/...-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

 given their return policy I thought id give it a go. 

so came home temporarily ran the cable between the marantz and the jvc. did a full reset of the oppo back to factory settings and gave things a go. well i'll be damned we have an affordable cable that will pass the oppo main menu and with out of box settings. now while i have had the player working pretty seamlessly wiht everything in auto and color space at 4:2:0 with my current cable, with my dual screens the factory settings i.e. full auto on the oppo seem a bit more seamless... anyways something will monitor...

But I should report this comsol 10m cable, described as per below does indeed work for uhd blu-ray,

"This Comsol High Speed HDMI Cable is a great option for anyone who is setting up a Blu-ray, set top box, computer and more. The cable will support 4K Ultra HD with a resolution up to 3840 x 2160.
This cable has male HDMI plugs on both ends.
The cable is 10 m long which lets you set your devices far apart from each other.
The connectors are covered in 24k gold and resist corrosion.
It will support 4K Ultra HD televisions.
The cable has a bandwidth speed of up to 18Gbps.
It contains a high grade oxygen-free 24AWG copper wire.
The cable has 32 channel digital audio which is perfect for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio."


__
https://flic.kr/p/32100896816
​

__
https://flic.kr/p/31990941292
​
down sides .. like many 24awg cables this comsol cable is thick and heavy and not so flexible as say the kordz prs linked in the opening post - which with being an active cable gets away with much more slender and flexible cable and dainty plugs 

as a note oppo have thankfully in their latest beta firmware also provided a couple of other video output settings in "UHD24" that does indeed now make sure that the main menu doesnt come through in max hdmi bandwidth.

which will make things all the more easier for people trying to pass uhd blu-ray over long cables (i.e. over 7m where premium certified cables at this point do not exist)


----------



## Otto Pylot

Glad to hear that the cable works for you, especially at 30', but as we've been saying for a long time, some cables work and some cables don't. So read that return policy very carefully. As to the cable "specs":

T_he connectors are covered in 24k gold and resist corrosion. - _Market-speak. Means nothing other than raise the cost.

_The cable has a bandwidth speed of up to 18Gbps_. - What does "up to" really mean?

_It contains a high grade oxygen-free 24AWG copper wire. - _Market-speak again. 24AWG is a bit thicker of a wire so it should perform better than 26AWG.

_The cable has 32 channel digital audio which is perfect for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio _- most high quality high speed HDMI cables can handle HD Audio with ease.


----------



## ExcessiveX

So, I've had a read through this entire thread and I'm lost!

I currently have the following setup

Xbox One S
PS4 Pro
Epson TW-9300 Projector
Okyo Receiver
HD Fury Linker

I have a 15M cheap HDMI cable that is working for the most part but struggles at the max resolutions.

there is a 2M cheap HDMI cable going from the receiver to the Linker and the 15M cable goes from the Linker to the Projector.

if I replace the 15M HDMI cable with a 15M (50FT) Fibre Cable, will this fix my issues? I don't care about the cost really, I just want it fixed!


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ExcessiveX said:


> So, if I replace the 15M HDMI cable with a 15M (50FT) Fibre Cable, will this fix my issues? I don't care about the cost really, I just want it fixed!


I'd definitely give the Celerity HDMI fiber cables a try if you don't care about cost.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. yeah, I'd have to reluctantly agree. There just isn't anything around now, unless you get lucky, that is "probably" going to work. My reluctance is due to the cost factor.


----------



## ExcessiveX

Ok, is the Monoprice Slimrun one the same as the Celerity?

I mean, I only need 15m?


----------



## Joe Fernand

The Celerity Tek cables have detachable HDMI Connector/dongles - potentially offering you an upgrade path which does not involve replacing the whole cable assembly.

They start at 10m and top out at 300m.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jong1

As someone who was shipped a Celerity 16Gbps cable in error, that was upgraded for free by Celerity themselves to the 18Gbps version, I feel I should repeat Celerity chose to send me a whole replacement package - cable and adapters -because they were not confident the old cable (possibly the connection between the old cable and the new adapters) would work. And....... indeed, the old cable worked less reliably with the new adapters than the old ones and I had to use the new cable.

So, it's nice to think it might be possible to use the same cable for any future (HDMI 2.1?) upgrade I wouldn't bet the house on it! I'd always run the cable through conduit. Fortunately the Celerity cable without the end adapters is very thin and flexible and much much easier to install than either a heavy duty HDMI cable or Cat6 solution.


----------



## ereed

Here is an interesting thread talking about new 48 gbps cable required in near future. I wonder if the celerity cable will still be fine in this situation in the future?

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ts-8k-10k-dynamic-hdr-requires-new-cable.html


----------



## [email protected]

Good evening I write from Italy to know if I want to buy the cable and attaching image is the latest model available. Accepts the signal 4k @ 60HZ 4: 4: 4 12 bit?
In the instructions it says that the Bandwidth is 16Gbps and 18Gbps not.
Thanks.


----------



## jong1

That is old stock. You need to return it and insist on the current version that is 18Gbps.


----------



## [email protected]

I asked them the problem...
The answer:

Hi Fabio, 
The packages was made a few years ago and the cable indeed support 18Gbps. 

Thanks
Xiaolin


----------



## jong1

Sorry, I believe they are mistaken, unless they have somehow shipped the new cable in an old box and with old documentation, I have had both and I can see you have the old packaging as well as documentation.

I received the same cable and emailed Celerity for clarification. Celerity confirmed they updated the cable 1 year ago to handled 18Gbps. I have since replaced mine for an 18Gbps version.

Here is the content of my email from Celerity In the USA:


> Our current version of product does support 18Gbps, assuming that the content, source and sink (display) also do, as well as any other devices in the signal path such as a second HDMI cable and a switcher. All of this makes 18Gbps difficult to predict unless there is a direct source to sink connection!
> 
> One year ago we updated our technology for improved 18Gbps performance and from that time on, we marked our connectors as you can see below. So, if your connectors and the fiber cable ends have a T and R marking like this, then you have the latest version of the product. If the T and R marking are a solid “dot” without the outer ring, they are of the earlier version and the 16Gbps packaging is accurate.


See this post which shows the two versions of adaptor. If you have the "solid dot" (which from the documentation provided suggests) you need a new version of the cable.


----------



## [email protected]

jong1 said:


> Sorry, I believe they are mistaken, unless they have somehow shipped the new cable in an old box and with old documentation, I have had both and I can see you have the old packaging as well as documentation.
> 
> I received the same cable and emailed Celerity for clarification. Celerity confirmed they updated the cable 1 year ago to handled 18Gbps. I have since replaced mine for an 18Gbps version.
> 
> Here is the content of my email from Celerity In the USA:
> 
> See this post which shows the two versions of adaptor. If you have the "solid dot" (which from the documentation provided suggests) you need a new version of the cable.


Thanks!!!


----------



## Lynkage

My very humble thanks to all who have given AVS the information here in this thread. Nice job all!


----------



## davisnub

Dave Vaughn said:


> At 35 feet, you may be looking at fiber as your best option.


a quick update, my 35ft bj cable was able to display 4k hdr via roku ultra. I think the roku ultra main menu outputs at full bandwidth. I'll have to test it with another video source device and see how it does.


----------



## bluechunks

davisnub said:


> a quick update, my 35ft bj cable was able to display 4k hdr via roku ultra. I think the roku ultra main menu outputs at full bandwidth. I'll have to test it with another video source device and see how it does.


When you setup the display output on the Ultra is it coming up with 4K HDR at 30 or 60fps?


----------



## jong1

I don't personally have a Roku but I did read elsewhere Firmware version 7.5 stops it always using 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit for the main menu, instead it can use 4:2:0. So refresh rate may still be 60Hz but the bitrate would be half the maximum for HDMI 2.0 and a lot less likely to cause issues.


----------



## SoCalCyclist

I have been fine with Amazon Basic cables but if you want great quality at not great cost go wth Blue Jean Cables.


----------



## bluechunks

jong1 said:


> I don't personally have a Roku but I did read elsewhere Firmware version 7.5 stops it always using 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit for the main menu, instead it can use 4:2:0. So refresh rate may still be 60Hz but the bitrate would be half the maximum for HDMI 2.0 and a lot less likely to cause issues.


Ahhhh.....

That would certinally help lots of folks. I am aware of the "secret menu" on the Roku to view the output specs and manually select 4:2:0. I didn't realize the Roku was automatically doing that during setup now.

Thus, it brings us full circle. We will probably see lots more "success" stories with long runs, but it won't mean the cable is actaully supporting 18gbps without futher investigation.


----------



## davisnub

bluechunks said:


> Ahhhh.....
> 
> That would certinally help lots of folks. I am aware of the "secret menu" on the Roku to view the output specs and manually select 4:2:0. I didn't realize the Roku was automatically doing that during setup now.
> 
> Thus, it brings us full circle. We will probably see lots more "success" stories with long runs, but it won't mean the cable is actaully supporting 18gbps without futher investigation.


If I remember off the top of my head, it's output at 60HZ. I've got a feeling that it should handle the bandwidth. My Monoprice cabernet @ 35 feet was able handle 4k resolution without HDR selected. After I selected the HDR option, it was no longer able to support it while the Blue Jeans cable was. I returned my sammy uhd player so I don't have anything else that could push that full 18gbps bandwidth but I'm happy that the BJ cable looks like it has the potential versus the monoprice cabernet.


----------



## ac388

Epson 5040 n Oppo 203 : I bet quite a few people are having this combo nowadays, n I have a stupid question to ask. Due to the chip limitation on 5040, does it matter if I get a 2.0(18Gbps) HDMI cable or not, since they are now showing 'BT2020 4:2:2 12bit HDR2' for UHD Bluray movies at 24 frames with a 1.4(10.2Gpbs) cable. So, if I play a 4K video file at 60 frames, things will be downmix n I won't be able to get the same or better spec., even if I have a 2.0 HDMI cable, right ??? Thanks for your input in advance.

P.S. My cable length is 10M n it is connected directly between the above 2 units.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ac388 said:


> Epson 5040 n Oppo 203 : I bet quite a few people are having this combo nowadays, n I have a stupid question to ask. Due to the chip limitation on 5040, does it matter if I get a 2.0(18Gbps) HDMI cable or not, since they are now showing 'BT2020 4:2:2 12bit HDR2' for UHD Bluray movies at 24 frames with a 1.4(10.2Gpbs) cable. So, if I play a 4K video file at 60 frames, things will be downmix n I won't be able to get the same or better spec., even if I have a 2.0 HDMI cable, right ??? Thanks for your input in advance.
> 
> P.S. My cable length is 10M n it is connected directly between the above 2 units.


There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. You either have a passive or active High Speed HDMI cable. It's difficult to find a cable that has been certified at 18Gbps. Most cables specs are carefully worded to say certified up to 18Gbps. The cable is just a data transfer pipe. It does nothing to the pq. That's all handled by the source and device. BTW, the lower end of the HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is 10.2Gbps so there is an overlap area between the HDMI 1.4/2.0 hardware specs. A good quality passive High Speed HDMI cable can easily handle 4k at distances up to about 20'-25'. Any distance above that and problems may start. UHD and 4k can be used to mean the same thing. HDR is where it gets a bit dicey because the higher bandwidth is necessary for the increased number of colors available and the increased contrast between dark and light images. As far as certification goes, I'd look for a copper-based cable that is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI cable and comes with a counterfeit proof label with a QR code and holographic "fingerprint" on it. These are cables that are certified following protocols designed and setup by HDMI Licensing. The certification centers are called ATCs (Authorized Testing Center) and are not limited to any one cable mfr. There are other certification programs available but they are not as universally standardized as the ATCs are. That being said, certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because other factors like hardware, HDMI hardware versions, setup, etc can affect the final outcome.

At 30', I'd look at a fiber optic cable. Celerity comes to mind. Lots of folks have tried all kinds of cables based on the mfrs claims and descriptions and some have worked, and some have not. It's pretty much a crap shoot. The Celerity cables seem to be the less problematic for those who've used them for the higher video standards at long lengths. I'm assuming you will be running your cable in a conduit. Video standards are changing a lot faster than the connection technology so the only way you can really "future proof" your setup is to run cable in conduit. That way you can easily upgrade/change your cabling needs.


----------



## alebonau

ac388 said:


> Epson 5040 n Oppo 203 : I bet quite a few people are having this combo nowadays, n I have a stupid question to ask. Due to the chip limitation on 5040, does it matter if I get a 2.0(18Gbps) HDMI cable or not, since they are now showing 'BT2020 4:2:2 12bit HDR2' for UHD Bluray movies at 24 frames with a 1.4(10.2Gpbs) cable. So, if I play a 4K video file at 60 frames, things will be downmix n I won't be able to get the same or better spec., even if I have a 2.0 HDMI cable, right ??? Thanks for your input in advance.
> 
> P.S. My cable length is 10M n it is connected directly between the above 2 units.


ac388, if you check the opening post of this thread, you well see some cables people have got to work with various combination at 10m. because its an equipment combination thing, it seems to be variable whether something will work or not in your setup. 

best is to get hold of one of them and with a good return policy so straight up just running the bare cable if hookup and with the oppo with its factory out of box settings if you cant get its menu up then the cable cant pass the bandwidth required.

yes with your projector you are limited in bandwidth anyways so good chance you will be fine. wiht the oppo in question if just plan to play uhd blu-rays just whack the oppo on UHD auto or UHD24 setting and you will find the menu will come through as well if didnt prior.


----------



## ac388

Thanks to your quick reply. The first 'Menu' u mentioned is the menu of Oppo or the UHD bluray disc menu ? By the way, I am already using a fiber optic cable name 'FIBBR', which they declare a 1.4 HDMI cable. But they have a new 2.0 version that they said can do 18Gbps n just wondering if I should do the upgrade.



alebonau said:


> ac388, if you check the opening post of this thread, you well see some cables people have got to work with various combination at 10m. because its an equipment combination thing, it seems to be variable whether something will work or not in your setup.
> 
> best is to get hold of one of them and with a good return policy so straight up just running the bare cable if hookup and with the oppo with its factory out of box settings if you cant get its menu up then the cable cant pass the bandwidth required.
> 
> yes with your projector you are limited in bandwidth anyways so good chance you will be fine. wiht the oppo in question if just plan to play uhd blu-rays just whack the oppo on UHD auto or UHD24 setting and you will find the menu will come through as well if didnt prior.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ac388 said:


> Thanks to your quick reply. The first 'Menu' u mentioned is the menu of Oppo or the UHD bluray disc menu ? By the way, I am already using a fiber optic cable name 'FIBBR', which they declare a 1.4 HDMI cable. But they have a new 2.0 version that they said can do 18Gbps n just wondering if I should do the upgrade.


If what you have is working now, then I wouldn't do the upgrade knowing that a new standard is hitting at the end of the year that will need 48Gbps bandwidth...I'd wait as long as possible.


----------



## ac388

Thanks for your quick reply. As far as I know, no Premium High Speed hdmi cable is available at 10M at the moment. I am already using a fiber optic cable name 'FIBBR' which they declare as 1.4. But my point is, base on my 5040/203 combo, do I get any picture quality improvement, if I get a 2.0 or 18Gbps cable .



Otto Pylot said:


> There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. You either have a passive or active High Speed HDMI cable. It's difficult to find a cable that has been certified at 18Gbps. Most cables specs are carefully worded to say certified up to 18Gbps. The cable is just a data transfer pipe. It does nothing to the pq. That's all handled by the source and device. BTW, the lower end of the HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is 10.2Gbps so there is an overlap area between the HDMI 1.4/2.0 hardware specs. A good quality passive High Speed HDMI cable can easily handle 4k at distances up to about 20'-25'. Any distance above that and problems may start. UHD and 4k can be used to mean the same thing. HDR is where it gets a bit dicey because the higher bandwidth is necessary for the increased number of colors available and the increased contrast between dark and light images. As far as certification goes, I'd look for a copper-based cable that is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI cable and comes with a counterfeit proof label with a QR code and holographic "fingerprint" on it. These are cables that are certified following protocols designed and setup by HDMI Licensing. The certification centers are called ATCs (Authorized Testing Center) and are not limited to any one cable mfr. There are other certification programs available but they are not as universally standardized as the ATCs are. That being said, certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because other factors like hardware, HDMI hardware versions, setup, etc can affect the final outcome.
> 
> At 30', I'd look at a fiber optic cable. Celerity comes to mind. Lots of folks have tried all kinds of cables based on the mfrs claims and descriptions and some have worked, and some have not. It's pretty much a crap shoot. The Celerity cables seem to be the less problematic for those who've used them for the higher video standards at long lengths. I'm assuming you will be running your cable in a conduit. Video standards are changing a lot faster than the connection technology so the only way you can really "future proof" your setup is to run cable in conduit. That way you can easily upgrade/change your cabling needs.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ac388 said:


> Thanks for your quick reply. As far as I know, no Premium High Speed hdmi cable is available at 10M at the moment. I am already using a fiber optic cable name 'FIBBR' which they declare as 1.4. But my point is, base on my 5040/203 combo, do I get any picture quality improvement, if I get a 2.0 or 18Gbps cable .


As long as you get a picture, then no, there will be no difference.


----------



## ac388

Noted your comment with thanks. I am just thinking those Monoprice Cabernet cable, that said can do 18Gbps for up to 50ft. n only about $30. If they can do an improvement, why not. But I live in Hong Kong, it will be difficult for me to return if it did not work. Also, by the time the market get to 48Gbps, I may need a new projector alltogether.




Dave Vaughn said:


> If what you have is working now, then I wouldn't do the upgrade knowing that a new standard is hitting at the end of the year that will need 48Gbps bandwidth...I'd wait as long as possible.


----------



## ac388

Noted with thanks.





Dave Vaughn said:


> As long as you get a picture, then no, there will be no difference.


----------



## mpyw

Any major differences that can be notice by naked eye if the signal is HDR/BT2020 4:2:2 12 bit or 4:4:4 12 bit?
I have a Panasonic UB700 UHD player that output 4:2:2 12 bit HDR to my Denon X6200 through a $10 25' HDMI cable from Amazon to JVC RS400
The picture all show up ok but the JVC grey out the Deep color in info page, only if I force the UB700 to output 4:4:4, it's blue screen from for the JVC.

Would I miss anything if I don't see the 4k/60 12 bit at 4:4:4?


----------



## Otto Pylot

ac388 said:


> Thanks for your quick reply. As far as I know, no Premium High Speed hdmi cable is available at 10M at the moment. I am already using a fiber optic cable name 'FIBBR' which they declare as 1.4. But my point is, base on my 5040/203 combo, do I get any picture quality improvement, if I get a 2.0 or 18Gbps cable .


As I said, there is no such thing as a "2.0" cable, or a 1.4, unless it is a very old cable packaged before HDMI Licensing insisted that all cable mfrs drop the HDMI hardware version number from the cable designation. It's either passive or active High Speed HDMI. Be wary of market speak and how the cable mfrs label their cables. They can be very misleading. Either you get signal or not. The pq is totally dependent on the hardware, not the cable. You can get a signal but if you see "sparkles" (little white dots flashing) on the screen the cable is having difficulty maintaining the bandwidth necessary for what ever you are trying to push. Cables by themselves can not improve audio or video quality.

25' is the maximum distance that HDMI would certify a cable for under the HDMI 1.4 hardware specifications. That appears to be the limit, so far, for HDMI 2.0a but that hasn't been officially defined yet. If you have a fiber cable that states 1.4 that probably means that it meets HDMI 1.4 hardware specifications which wouldn't work work for the HDMI 2.0a hardware specs which is necessary for HDR. Your hardware combo is fine, provided that both have the same version of HDMI chipsets. I'm not familiar with the "FIBBR" cable so who knows how they determine what it can carry. 

Do you have any pq issues now with the cable you are using?


----------



## alebonau

mpyw said:


> Any major differences that can be notice by naked eye if the signal is HDR/BT2020 4:2:2 12 bit or 4:4:4 12 bit?
> I have a Panasonic UB700 UHD player that output 4:2:2 12 bit HDR to my Denon X6200 through a $10 25' HDMI cable from Amazon to JVC RS400
> The picture all show up ok but the JVC grey out the Deep color in info page, only if I force the UB700 to output 4:4:4, it's blue screen from for the JVC.
> 
> Would I miss anything if I don't see the 4k/60 12 bit at 4:4:4?


it is perfectly normal for the jvc to grey out the 12 bit. its because 12 bit is the only supported depth for that color space you are passing. dont worry about it and dont need to force anything


----------



## ac388

Noted your comment with thanks. No pq issue now. But the Input n Output Information of Oppo 203 show me, whenever I play a 4k files(not UHD Bluray) at 60 frames, the color Space always come out to a lower resolution like, BT709 YCbCr 4:2:0 12 bit. Is it the same for all of you folks ? Or is it the cable ? Or is it the 203 n 5040 ?



Otto Pylot said:


> As I said, there is no such thing as a "2.0" cable, or a 1.4, unless it is a very old cable packaged before HDMI Licensing insisted that all cable mfrs drop the HDMI hardware version number from the cable designation. It's either passive or active High Speed HDMI. Be wary of market speak and how the cable mfrs label their cables. They can be very misleading. Either you get signal or not. The pq is totally dependent on the hardware, not the cable. You can get a signal but if you see "sparkles" (little white dots flashing) on the screen the cable is having difficulty maintaining the bandwidth necessary for what ever you are trying to push. Cables by themselves can not improve audio or video quality.
> 
> 25' is the maximum distance that HDMI would certify a cable for under the HDMI 1.4 hardware specifications. That appears to be the limit, so far, for HDMI 2.0a but that hasn't been officially defined yet. If you have a fiber cable that states 1.4 that probably means that it meets HDMI 1.4 hardware specifications which wouldn't work work for the HDMI 2.0a hardware specs which is necessary for HDR. Your hardware combo is fine, provided that both have the same version of HDMI chipsets. I'm not familiar with the "FIBBR" cable so who knows how they determine what it can carry.
> 
> Do you have any pq issues now with the cable you are using?


----------



## jong1

Dave Vaughn said:


> As long as you get a picture, then no, there will be no difference.


One qualification to this - look carefully for "sparkles" - white, single pixel flashes of light, normally random across the screen. They can be very hard to see with most images in screen, but are easy to spot if you pause a black or mostly black image, like a credit screen at the end of a show/movie. They are a sign of failed error correction.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ sparkles was mentioned in post #568 but maybe he missed it.


----------



## Experious

Attention Australian members!

If you are reading this you have no doubt gone through the pain of searching through a number of these forums to find that many of the cables mentioned are not available or have the "Australia Tax" added (for those of you overseas, the Australia Tax is the ridiculous markup on all products sold in Australia, even after taking into account exchange rates and GST; some good examples are the UDP-203 at about AUD100 more expensive and the Elac Uni-Fi UB5s that are AUD570 more expensive!). You may have also celebrated when you came across this thread and saw mention of Officeworks, even to a point where you were so sick of researching you were happy to pay the relatively expensive $69 for a cable (expensive compared to Target cables that do not work, cheap compared to Jaycar cables that do not work, with the bonus of not having to put up with the attitude of the staff there). Well I can tell you that the news gets better.

The exact same Comsol cable is also available from TechBuy, currently for $37.55. And of course, Officeworks will price match and subtract another 5%, although to calculate this they will include the postage, which to my address was $9.90. The moral of the story is that I ended up getting this cable for less than $45, a much more reasonable price!

I can also confirm that this cable works between my Oppo UDP-203 and Sony KD-65Z9D, although I did have to restart the Oppo after changing from "Direct" to "Auto". Is it thick and stiff? Yes (we are still talking about the cable here). Is it a PITA to plug in? Yes (also still talking about the cable). Has anyone else noticed that every cable you buy seems to have the HDMI connection bent "down" whilst all TVs require it to be bent "up"?

Still, the fact of the matter is that it _does _work and is the only cable anywhere near this length (10m, a bit over 30') that I have had any success with.


----------



## Experious

Experious said:


> Still, the fact of the matter is that it _does _work and is the only cable anywhere near this length (10m, a bit over 30') that I have had any success with.


Although I may have spoken too soon. Of course with the player back in the rack I can no longer get it to work  Is it my imagination or does HDMI suck? If we can't achieve 18Gbps, how are we ever going to reach this imaginary 48, whose only purpose could be for large home theatre projectors that are _always _going to need a long cable?


----------



## alebonau

Experious said:


> Although I may have spoken too soon. Of course with the player back in the rack I can no longer get it to work  Is it my imagination or does HDMI suck? If we can't achieve 18Gbps, how are we ever going to reach this imaginary 48, whose only purpose could be for large home theatre projectors that are _always _going to need a long cable?


hi experious...a fellow melbournite ? 

good find on the comsol at techbuy...

but concerned it was working and then not working back in the rack ? 

no imagination hdmi sucks...infact doubt you'd have any argument from anyone.

bu concerns me that your cable works and doesnt work ?

one thing is the return policy on office works is pretty good. but still be good to get to bottom of whats going on here.

I've had zero issue with the comsol or the only other aussie alternative in the kordz but its a lot more expensive but is more slim line/flexible with more compact plugs and easier to run.

but still am still concerned to know why your cable is now not working.

I dont have the same display as yours. but I definitely had the oppo working in out of box auto settings so wondering why isnt the case for you


----------



## Otto Pylot

Experious said:


> Although I may have spoken too soon. Of course with the player back in the rack I can no longer get it to work  Is it my imagination or does HDMI suck? If we can't achieve 18Gbps, how are we ever going to reach this imaginary 48, whose only purpose could be for large home theatre projectors that are _always _going to need a long cable?


HDMI does in fact suck. As mentioned, you won't find anyone in disagreement here on that point. This is why I'm not getting excited at all about fully compliant HDMI 2.1. Sure, there's supposed to be a special cable, apparently limited to about 6', but that's not going to help the folks who have their equipment away from the viewing environment for aesthetic and/or room design reasons.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Experious said:


> Although I may have spoken too soon. Of course with the player back in the rack I can no longer get it to work  Is it my imagination or does HDMI suck? If we can't achieve 18Gbps, how are we ever going to reach this imaginary 48, whose only purpose could be for large home theatre projectors that are _always _going to need a long cable?


When you tested it, did you bend the cable at all? You have to put bends in the cable to simulate a "real world" environment.


----------



## alebonau

Dave Vaughn said:


> When you tested it, did you bend the cable at all? You have to put bends in the cable to simulate a "real world" environment.


ive got plenty of bends in mine, presuming we have the same cable. first I've heard of this cable working and not working which is concerning ! 

my bet is a settings thing perhaps with the display or elsewhere if the oppo is in full auto out of box with current firmware. the oppo is prone to hdmi handshake issues so quite possible there are other things going on.


----------



## Experious

alebonau said:


> ive got plenty of bends in mine, presuming we have the same cable. first I've heard of this cable working and not working which is concerning !
> 
> my bet is a settings thing perhaps with the display or elsewhere if the oppo is in full auto out of box with current firmware. the oppo is prone to hdmi handshake issues so quite possible there are other things going on.


I have done some more testing here, but I am going to post the results in the UDP-203 owners thread as it seems more appropriate.


----------



## alebonau

Experious said:


> I have done some more testing here, but I am going to post the results in the UDP-203 owners thread as it seems more appropriate.


hmm that is very curious.... if related to the network somehow ! 

I wonder if more a case of how its sitting in its socket and you have nudged it. we have had cases of socket issues I have read 

ps if 6m... and exactly 6m will do you...

then isnt there a premium certified hdmi cable in 6m from mono price ?

it is on the mac fix it au site, though on back order so no idea what that means !  
https://www.macfixit.com.au/monoprice-certified-premium-high-speed-hdmir-cable-6m-black/

might be other sources ? not a cable I've tried or read feedback on. but being premium certified ... you'd hope ok 

ps if just over the 6m length be out of luck as premium certified cables stop at 6m


----------



## Experious

alebonau said:


> it is on the mac fix it au site, though on back order so no idea what that means !
> https://www.macfixit.com.au/monoprice-certified-premium-high-speed-hdmir-cable-6m-black/


I wish I had seen that before! Will definitely be my next stop if I have no success with the cable I have ordered, thanks.


----------



## alebonau

Experious said:


> I wish I had seen that before! Will definitely be my next stop if I have no success with the cable I have ordered, thanks.


to be honest in searching for it for you, its first time ive found a local reseller ! so as much as news to me  

atleast their price isnt a mile high jump from what it is overseas ! even if they have no stock and its on back order :laugh:


----------



## brianlvi3

Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.

With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing. 

How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.

I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...


----------



## jong1

brianlvi3 said:


> Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.
> 
> With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing.
> 
> How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.
> 
> I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...


The good news if it is the Celerity "cable" is it is highly unlikely to actually be "the cable". It's almost certainly going to be one of the adaptors on the end that has failed. Things do sometimes. You should be able to get the adaptors swapped under warranty.


----------



## brianlvi3

jong1 said:


> The good news if it is the Celerity "cable" is it is highly unlikely to actually be "the cable". It's almost certainly going to be one of the adaptors on the end that has failed. Things do sometimes. You should be able to get the adaptors swapped under warranty.


I hope it is just that easy hah. I have the one end of the Celerity in my Epson PJ with the USB, the other end coming out of my Marantz 7702mkii. I was not using the USB on that side as the Marantz doesn't have a USB port. I did a few minutes ago plug that USB end into the back of my Oppo 203 which does have a USB port. Same thing happening.

The picture will drip in and out, very fast. A few seconds only. I was watching HBO and it dropped out 10 times in 15-20 minutes. Seems to be getting worse. When I shut down the PJ and watch on my 55 Sony 4K TV, no drop outs at all using a 9 foot Audioquest HDMI cable.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

brianlvi3 said:


> I hope it is just that easy hah. I have the one end of the Celerity in my Epson PJ with the USB, the other end coming out of my Marantz 7702mkii. I was not using the USB on that side as the Marantz doesn't have a USB port. I did a few minutes ago plug that USB end into the back of my Oppo 203 which does have a USB port. Same thing happening.
> 
> The picture will drip in and out, very fast. A few seconds only. I was watching HBO and it dropped out 10 times in 15-20 minutes. Seems to be getting worse. When I shut down the PJ and watch on my 55 Sony 4K TV, no drop outs at all using a 9 foot Audioquest HDMI cable.


How are you powering the USB dongle on the projector side of things? Try using an external power source (USB charger) and not your equipment to charge it.


----------



## brianlvi3

Dave Vaughn said:


> How are you powering the USB dongle on the projector side of things? Try using an external power source (USB charger) and not your equipment to charge it.[/QUOTO
> 
> On the display side I have the USB into my Epson 5040 USB slot, nothing on the source side. Than as a I got more desperate, I plugged the source side USB into my Oppo USB slot to see if that helps, no difference. Picture goes on and off every minute or 2-3 now. I unplugged the source side ( not even sure it was ok to plug it into to Oppo) and added a 5 volt DC plug in with a USB port phone charger. Plugged the USB from the Celerity into that and I knocked the picture completely out. I did not even turn on the PJ yet but first had on my Sony 55 inch. No picture on the Oppo or my cable box, but I did get a picture on my Xbox one. Why would that disable the Oppo and cable box?
> 
> I did not want to turn on the PJ as I thought something was not right with the USB phone device I was using. Maybe not the right type to use?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## SteveCallas

If I stick to 1080p, is it fair to say that these active 30'+ cables like the Cabernet or Luxe from Monoprice will work fine, or can I not even assume that?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I'd contact whoever you bought the cable from and say it's defective.


----------



## laugsbach

SteveCallas said:


> If I stick to 1080p, is it fair to say that these active 30'+ cables like the Cabernet or Luxe from Monoprice will work fine, or can I not even assume that?


I have a 35' Cabernet cable and have zero problems with 1080p...


----------



## Dave Vaughn

laugsbach said:


> I have a 35' Cabernet cable and have zero problems with 1080p...


1080p isn't a problem...4K at 18Gbps is a problem that the Cabernet cables can't solve.


----------



## Laserion

Isn't there any one who tried these cables yet? Quite cheaper than Celerity and claims 22gb. 


http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6852


----------



## dmillionz

brianlvi3 said:


> Dave Vaughn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you powering the USB dongle on the projector side of things? Try using an external power source (USB charger) and not your equipment to charge it.
> 
> 
> 
> On the display side I have the USB into my Epson 5040 USB slot, nothing on the source side. Than as a I got more desperate, I plugged the source side USB into my Oppo USB slot to see if that helps, no difference. Picture goes on and off every minute or 2-3 now. I unplugged the source side ( not even sure it was ok to plug it into to Oppo) and added a 5 volt DC plug in with a USB port phone charger. Plugged the USB from the Celerity into that and I knocked the picture completely out. I did not even turn on the PJ yet but first had on my Sony 55 inch. No picture on the Oppo or my cable box, but I did get a picture on my Xbox one. Why would that disable the Oppo and cable box?
> 
> I did not want to turn on the PJ as I thought something was not right with the USB phone device I was using. Maybe not the right type to use?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have the 50ft Celerity DFO HDMI cable and it works flawlessly for everything I push through it. I do have it powered via permanent USB 5V1A on both ends however and I think this makes a difference in performance. It also is connected directly from my Denon to my Sony PJ. As far as I'm concerned, this Fiber cable is one of my best contributions to my Cinema and delivers a stunning picture.


----------



## brianlvi3

dmillionz said:


> I have the 50ft Celerity DFO HDMI cable and it works flawlessly for everything I push through it. I do have it powered via permanent USB 5V1A on both ends however and I think this makes a difference in performance. It also is connected directly from my Denon to my Sony PJ. As far as I'm concerned, this Fiber cable is one of my best contributions to my Cinema and delivers a stunning picture.


 I want this cable to work so bad, it was so easy to run, no pressure on the HDMI ports. It is almost invisible. I spoke to Celerity. He told me I might have a bad/both cable end. They are sending me a new pair to try. 

The reason the 55 inch Sony would not show my bluray or cablebox is because when I sent the power into the PJ side of the USB on the PJ end without the PJ on and using the Sony, it caused a problem in the Marantz. So, it would have to be switched off at the PJ when I was watching my 55 inch Sony. 

Cable ends arriving tomorrow just in time for the big game!!! Fingers crossed...


----------



## brianlvi3

Well, Celerity did not send me new HDMI ends but sent me this inline HDMI connector that was supposed to help. It does not. Signal keeps dropping out. I also tried an Audioquest 8 meter cinnamon cable. Also does not work. I will keep trying until I get it right!! Anyone with suggestions? I have to have at least 26.5 feet, no less will work. So 8 meter is the shortest that I can use (26.3 feet). So probably looking at 30 feet.

Thanks!!


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Brian,

Why didn't Celerity send you a brand new cable? It should be under warranty.


----------



## brianlvi3

Dave Vaughn said:


> Brian,
> 
> Why didn't Celerity send you a brand new cable? It should be under warranty.


He wanted me to change both the HDMI ends, but. He sent that coupling to try. Kind of angry because wanted to watch the super bowl on it. When I spoke to him again last night, he was asking me to change settings etc. I have went through all that already. 

I am not sure about this, but I put the Celerity into the 1.4 input on the Epson 5040, still the same problem. It is the same with the Oppo 203 and watching TV. Picture and sound drops out enough to be very annoying.


----------



## brianlvi3

Dave Vaughn said:


> Brian,
> 
> Why didn't Celerity send you a brand new cable? It should be under warranty.


This is what Celerity wants me to try;


Hi Brian, 
Is it possible to set the color 444 at [email protected] ?

How would I go about this on my Epson or does he mean my Marantz?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Celerity are asking you to change the format of the signal the Source is Outputting - changing settings on the TV will not affect what is passing over the cable.

Joe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> Celerity are asking you to change the format of the signal the Source is Outputting - changing settings on the TV will not affect what is passing over the cable.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am just working on my cable box so far, just trying to pass a signal without a dropout. So cable box to the Marantz 7702mkii, then 35 foot Celerity to my Epson PJ. I tried every setting on the Marantz down to 720P, still dropping out picture and sound. I haven't even touched the Oppo yet and I am not even bothering as it was dropping out on that anyway.

I have requested a return from Crutchfield. I will be trying another Celerity 35 foot in the hopes that this cable is just defective.

Although, the 8 meter Audioquest did not work either. I have also ordered a 30 foot BJC aka fire hose arriving this week.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

That's not a good sign if your cable box is dropping the signal...the requirements with that are minimal. Have you tried bypassing the Marantz just to see if you possibly have a problem with that?


----------



## Joe Fernand

If you are powering the TX from the AVR try a different power Source - a few folk have had problems with AVR USB ports.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> If you are powering the TX from the AVR try a different power Source - a few folk have had problems with AVR USB ports.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have used a usb 5v adapter at the PJ side and the source side with no help at all. I will try bypassing the Marantz. I keep wondering what changed to have it work for a month with no problems. I have tried I think every setting in the Marantz, twice!!

I am awaiting the BJC to arrive (fire hose) and hope to have some luck.

Thanks.


----------



## slimmo1

*Success....for now!!!*

Hi Folks,

Felt I needed to add my frustration/disappointment/anger.....and now elation (all this from an HDMI cable).

Based in the U.K. Using Oppo 203 into JVC X7000 and needing a 12metre-40ft cable. I've had a very expensive cable installed for over a year in anticipation of 4k which arrived in the form of the above products just after Christmas. Upshot was the cable only passed 1080p and no more.

Got a replacement cable which worked fine when running across the floor, happy days until the dealer and I worked it (very carefully) through the conduit which is a pretty straight line with one slight bend on its journey. Cable D.O.A, nothing, not even registering that the two products were in the same country.....great.

Now bored waiting for another cable so I moved to Amazon and selected the cable that seemed to contain the least marketing b...sh.. and pulled the trigger. 13 hours later it was in my house, plugged in and passing 4K at 24hz all colour space and bit settings on auto. Now running through the conduit, going through my Arcam AVR and all at this stage working just fine.

And the money shot......£15.99 ~ $20.00!!!! Who'd have guessed it.

Slimmo.


----------



## alebonau

slimmo1 said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Felt I needed to add my frustration/disappointment/anger.....and now elation (all this from an HDMI cable).
> 
> Based in the U.K. Using Oppo 203 into JVC X7000 and needing a 12metre-40ft cable. I've had a very expensive cable installed for over a year in anticipation of 4k which arrived in the form of the above products just after Christmas. Upshot was the cable only passed 1080p and no more.
> 
> Got a replacement cable which worked fine when running across the floor, happy days until the dealer and I worked it (very carefully) through the conduit which is a pretty straight line with one slight bend on its journey. Cable D.O.A, nothing, not even registering that the two products were in the same country.....great.
> 
> Now bored waiting for another cable so I moved to Amazon and selected the cable that seemed to contain the least marketing b...sh.. and pulled the trigger. 13 hours later it was in my house, plugged in and passing 4K at 24hz all colour space and bit settings on auto. Now running through the conduit, going through my Arcam AVR and all at this stage working just fine.
> 
> And the money shot......£15.99 ~ $20.00!!!! Who'd have guessed it.
> 
> Slimmo.


very good to hear slimmo... but if this post is to be of help to others who might find them selves similarly placed.....

as per the opening post in this thread please if can advise all interconnecting equipment. and most importantly the actual cable used ?  

eg with it you say it is the oppo 203 into the jvc x7000 but then mention an arcam avr ? what model number ?

and what brand and cable part number and length of cable have you found that has worked in this combination. this is all useful information for people


----------



## slimmo1

alebonau said:


> very good to hear slimmo... but if this post is to be of help to others who might find them selves similarly placed.....
> 
> as per the opening post in this thread please if can advise all interconnecting equipment. and most importantly the actual cable used ?
> 
> eg with it you say it is the oppo 203 into the jvc x7000 but then mention an arcam avr ? what model number ?
> 
> and what brand and cable part number and length of cable have you found that has worked in this combination. this is all useful information for people


Point well made. In the excitement of being able to watch a 4K disc after 6 weeks I missed the point of the thread....

So it's Oppo 203 to Arcam AVR850 with the supplied Oppo HDMI cable. I really wanted a single cable solution rather than splitting audio and video from the Oppo so as to be able to see volume and menus from the AVR on screen. Arcam AVR to JVCx7000/RS500 with the new HDMI cable which is a "Cablesson Ivuna 12 metre high speed HDMI".

Can't add a link at this stage due to my lack of posts but a quick search on Amazon UK should get you there and of course let me know if you need any further info.

Hope that helps.


----------



## brianlvi3

Dave Vaughn said:


> That's not a good sign if your cable box is dropping the signal...the requirements with that are minimal. Have you tried bypassing the Marantz just to see if you possibly have a problem with that?


Installed the Blue Jeans series 1 thirty foot cable on Saturday. Now I know why they call it a fire hose. Man is this cable thick. I watched a few 1080P movies and a few 4K movies. All went well so far. Also the cable box worked well, no problems.

Out put in the Epson menu which is faux 4K is as follows out of my Oppo 203;

3840 x 2160 resolution. Scan mode progressive. Refresh rate 23.97Hz. 12 bit 4:2:2 color depth.

Fingers crossed. Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## Otto Pylot

brianlvi3 said:


> Installed the Blue Jeans series 1 thirty foot cable on Saturday. Now I know why they call it a fire hose. Man is this cable thick. I watched a few 1080P movies and a few 4K movies. All went well so far. Also the cable box worked well, no problems.


Be mindful of the bend radius and the increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


----------



## brianlvi3

Otto Pylot said:


> Be mindful of the bend radius and the increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


Can anyone recommend an HDMI locking type brace/support for such a thick cable?

Thanks.


----------



## Kazz063

brianlvi3 said:


> Can anyone recommend an HDMI locking type brace/support for such a thick cable?
> 
> Thanks.


Try this http://www.blueechosolutions.com/proddetail.php?prod=hd-ez-lock I have a pair and it works quite well.


----------



## Kazz063

I've splashed out and ordered the Celerity Fibre Optic 12m/40ft cable, hopefully I'll have it by the end of the week.

I'll post back with results once I have it in my system, I'm running an Oppo 203 to JVC x5000.


----------



## ac388

Tks for the link. Wish they have photos to show how they are installed n attached to the back of something like a Oppo 203.




Kazz063 said:


> Try this http://www.blueechosolutions.com/proddetail.php?prod=hd-ez-lock I have a pair and it works quite well.


----------



## Kazz063

ac388 said:


> Tks for the link. Wish they have photos to show how they are installed n attached to the back of something like a Oppo 203.


On the page I linked there's a video showing the installation onto a player, it's very simple.


----------



## Bradyz

So is the Blue Jeans Cable still the cheapest option in the US for a 30' run? I have read back a few pages and haven't come across anything else.


----------



## brianlvi3

Bradyz said:


> So is the Blue Jeans Cable still the cheapest option in the US for a 30' run? I have read back a few pages and haven't come across anything else.


I really wished the Celerity fiber optic worked for me as it was so easy to install and put no pressure on my HDMI connectors at all. But, it worked for a little bit than stopped working. Signal dropping out 20-30 times a movie. Couldn't live with it.

I installed the Blue Jeans series 1 cable and so far (knock on wood) no problems. I will keep plugging away each weekend with movies testing it.


----------



## ac388

Noted with thanks.



Kazz063 said:


> On the page I linked there's a video showing the installation onto a player, it's very simple.


----------



## alebonau

Kazz063 said:


> Try this http://www.blueechosolutions.com/proddetail.php?prod=hd-ez-lock I have a pair and it works quite well.


great solution this one ! 

using the HEAVY STIFF hdmi cable am now it would make a lot of sense ! and good practice to use I think. rather than load the sockets up as am likely doing now.



Kazz063 said:


> I've splashed out and ordered the Celerity Fibre Optic 12m/40ft cable, hopefully I'll have it by the end of the week.
> 
> I'll post back with results once I have it in my system, I'm running an Oppo 203 to JVC x5000.


oh wow kazz ! just seen this. I was seriously tempted at one stage too. but they had no return policy and also I was scared *****less that with the delicate angel hair of a thing it is I would damage given have to run up and down internal walls and then pull through back in the house ! 

I wonder if one day they will sell these with a more rugged outer sheath so less chance of damage 

who are you getting these from out of interest kazz as only one locally I saw who had were radio parts and at quite a price ! 

look forward to reading how you go. I can see the sense in getting as hopefully once fitted its kind of thing to then forget about any potential hdmi issue from then on


----------



## Kazz063

alebonau said:


> great solution this one !
> 
> using the HEAVY STIFF hdmi cable am now it would make a lot of sense ! and good practice to use I think. rather than load the sockets up as am likely doing now.


I've got a couple of pairs, son's avr has a fairly loose monitor out HDMI port so I'm using one on there for starters. Got them from a local dealer in Seaford.





alebonau said:


> oh wow kazz ! just seen this. I was seriously tempted at one stage too. but they had no return policy and also I was scared *****less that with the delicate angel hair of a thing it is I would damage given have to run up and down internal walls and then pull through back in the house !
> 
> I wonder if one day they will sell these with a more rugged outer sheath so less chance of damage
> 
> who are you getting these from out of interest kazz as only one locally I saw who had were radio parts and at quite a price !
> 
> look forward to reading how you go. I can see the sense in getting as hopefully once fitted its kind of thing to then forget about any potential hdmi issue from then on


I decided that it was the way to go, we are going to run conduit in the wall so that will make it easier but since the HDMI connectors are detachable it's a much smaller cable to pull through and it has a pull strength of 60 pounds so is probably not as fragile as I thought.
There are a few retailers here that it can be bought from but I used RadioParts, I contacted them before I ordered to checkon their return policy if it doesn't live up to it's 4:4:4 4k/60 claims and was assured (in an email) that if it doesn't they will take it back (really no choice under ACL). 
It's definitely not a cheap option  but hopefully it'll be the best option.


----------



## alebonau

Kazz063 said:


> I've got a couple of pairs, son's avr has a fairly loose monitor out HDMI port so I'm using one on there for starters. Got them from a local dealer in Seaford.
> 
> ~.


great to hear available locally  who in seaford ? bpp ?



Kazz063 said:


> ~
> I decided that it was the way to go, we are going to run conduit in the wall so that will make it easier but since the HDMI connectors are detachable it's a much smaller cable to pull through and it has a pull strength of 60 pounds so is probably not as fragile as I thought.
> There are a few retailers here that it can be bought from but I used RadioParts, I contacted them before I ordered to checkon their return policy if it doesn't live up to it's 4:4:4 4k/60 claims and was assured (in an email) that if it doesn't they will take it back (really no choice under ACL).
> It's definitely not a cheap option  but hopefully it'll be the best option.


great thinking on the conduit ! that will help things no end ! and smart move to get return policy in writing on email ! 

look forward to seeing how you go. but agree its not the cheapest way to go...but if works... then good peace of mind going forward


----------



## Kazz063

alebonau said:


> great to hear available locally  who in seaford ? bpp ?


These guys: http://online.laceys.tv/products/universal-hdmi-lock





alebonau said:


> great thinking on the conduit ! that will help things no end ! and smart move to get return policy in writing on email !
> 
> look forward to seeing how you go. but agree its not the cheapest way to go...but if works... then good peace of mind going forward


Yes definitely want assurances in writing when paying that price. 

Fibre optic itself has plenty of bandwidth room, so I'll keep fingers crossed that Celerity might just replace the HDMI connectors when and if the need arises.


----------



## jong1

Kazz063 said:


> I decided that it was the way to go, we are going to run conduit in the wall so that will make it easier but since the HDMI connectors are detachable it's a much smaller cable to pull through and it has a pull strength of 60 pounds so is probably not as fragile as I thought.
> There are a few retailers here that it can be bought from but I used RadioParts, I contacted them before I ordered to checkon their return policy if it doesn't live up to it's 4:4:4 4k/60 claims and was assured (in an email) that if it doesn't they will take it back (really no choice under ACL).
> It's definitely not a cheap option  but hopefully it'll be the best option.


 Definitely agree about conduit. Makes things so much safer and future proof.

I can vouch for the excellence of Celerity customer service. I was shipped an out of date version of the cable (16Gbps) by their UK distributor. They sent me pictures so I could confirm for sure if I had the latest version. Once we knew I did not have the latest they arranged, at no cost to me, for their German distributor to ship a new cable, as all the UK stock was out of date at that time. They didn't even want the old cable back. All working fantastically here now and has been for 4 months.


----------



## Kazz063

jong1 said:


> Definitely agree about conduit. Makes things so much safer and future proof.
> 
> I can vouch for the excellence of Celerity customer service. I was shipped an out of date version of the cable (16Gbps) by their UK distributor. They sent me pictures so I could confirm for sure if I had the latest version. Once we knew I did not have the latest they arranged, at no cost to me, for their German distributor to ship a new cable, as all the UK stock was out of date at that time. They didn't even want the old cable back. All working fantastically here now and has been for 4 months.


Yes I think conduit is the way to go. 

I'm glad to hear that Celerity are good to deal with, it's not a cheap purchase here in Australia.


----------



## ac388

I had a 10 meters Series 1 from 7 years ago n I am wondering if it is the same one, since I had it put aside n thought it will not work with my current 5040/203 4K combo ?????????




brianlvi3 said:


> Installed the Blue Jeans series 1 thirty foot cable on Saturday. Now I know why they call it a fire hose. Man is this cable thick. I watched a few 1080P movies and a few 4K movies. All went well so far. Also the cable box worked well, no problems.
> 
> Out put in the Epson menu which is faux 4K is as follows out of my Oppo 203;
> 
> 3840 x 2160 resolution. Scan mode progressive. Refresh rate 23.97Hz. 12 bit 4:2:2 color depth.
> 
> Fingers crossed. Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## brianlvi3

alebonau said:


> great solution this one !
> 
> using the HEAVY STIFF hdmi cable am now it would make a lot of sense ! and good practice to use I think. rather than load the sockets up as am likely doing now.
> 
> 
> 
> oh wow kazz ! just seen this. I was seriously tempted at one stage too. but they had no return policy and also I was scared *****less that with the delicate angel hair of a thing it is I would damage given have to run up and down internal walls and then pull through back in the house !
> 
> I wonder if one day they will sell these with a more rugged outer sheath so less chance of damage
> 
> who are you getting these from out of interest kazz as only one locally I saw who had were radio parts and at quite a price !
> 
> look forward to reading how you go. I can see the sense in getting as hopefully once fitted its kind of thing to then forget about any potential hdmi issue from then on


Order from Crutchfield, they have a great return policy. Thanks what I ended up doing and sending it back.


----------



## brianlvi3

ac388 said:


> I had a 10 meters Series 1 from 7 years ago n I am wondering if it is the same one, since I had it put aside n thought it will not work with my current 5040/203 4K combo ?????????


I do believe it is the same cable but would check with Blue Jean or just give it a whirl. With the 5040 you do not need anything more than I think 10.2 anyway as it is not a true 4K PJ. Mine is working like a charm so far. 

Funny thing is I also have a series one from about 7 years ago but it was like 75 feet long. Worked for years, never stopped working but I got the itch to replace it years ago and run a shorter cable which I did.

Down to 30 feet now.


----------



## Kazz063

brianlvi3 said:


> Order from Crutchfield, they have a great return policy. Thanks what I ended up doing and sending it back.


Al and I are both in Australia so returns to a US retailer are not an easy or cheap exercise unfortunately. 

Well my Clerity Fibre Optic HDMI cable arrived yesterday. 

Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk, only shipped yesterday from Amazon so won't be able to give it a full work out until that arrives. 
The cable is much thinner than normal copper HDMI, the pic is the CT next to a Monoprice HDMI, and as the HDMI connectors are detachable feeding through a wall or in my case conduit that will be going into the wall, should be fairly easy. 









I've run the CT cable, temporarily around the room, and connected it to player and PJ (not running UHD payer through the AVR. 
Turned everything on with the settings I had for the Kordz cable and everything fired up as expected. 
Played a bit of the disc that was already in the player, all fine.








Had a play with the settings on the Oppo and changed them to the following, Output Res: Source Direct, Colour Space:YCbCr 4:4:4 and Colour Depth: 12-bit. 
Unlike before the CT cable I had picture on both the Oppo menu 4K(3840)50 and the movie 4K(3840)24, getting the Oppo menu to play on source direct was not possible with any other cable. 
I had read reports from other Oppo owners that source direct resulted in a better/crisper pq but was doubtful as I'd not been able to check for myself but I'd have to agree with their assessments. 
So far in this short bit of testing this cable seems to live up to it's claims, will be interesting to see how it copes with 4K(3840)60 when the Billy Lynn disc arrives in a week or two. 



JVC info while on the Oppo Home screen 










JVC info with disc playing.


----------



## jong1

4K/60 uses exactly the same data rate as 4K/50 (just more filler in /50), so you _should _be good


----------



## brianlvi3

Oh well, watched Arrival last night using the Blue Jeans series 1 cable which worked for 3 or 4 movies flawlessly. Ran it through my ceiling (nightmare) and last night it dropped the movie 25 times. Mostly it dropped just the picture but a few times picture and audio. Also a few times I had to shut down my Oppo 203 and start the disc again.

I think I am going to have to run 2 cables to my Epson 5040. I will run the Celerity from my Oppo directly to my Epson. The Oppo has 2 HDMI outs on it, one just for audio. So;

I will leave my Xbox and PS4, cable box running to the Marantz 7702mkii. HDMI out audio from my Oppo also to the Marantz. Then HDMI out 1 from the Marantz to my 55 inch Sony, HDMI out 2 to my Epson into the 1.4 HDMI in, and the directly from the Oppo out to the Epson 2.0 input.

Makes sense hah? Will that still work? I am thinking how the picture will be using the 1.4 input on the Epson for everything but the Oppo?

Thanks.


----------



## Kazz063

brianlvi3 said:


> Oh well, watched Arrival last night using the Blue Jeans series 1 cable which worked for 3 or 4 movies flawlessly. Ran it through my ceiling (nightmare) and last night it dropped the movie 25 times. Mostly it dropped just the picture but a few times picture and audio. Also a few times I had to shut down my Oppo 203 and start the disc again.
> 
> I think I am going to have to run 2 cables to my Epson 5040. I will run the Celerity from my Oppo directly to my Epson. The Oppo has 2 HDMI outs on it, one just for audio. So;
> 
> I will leave my Xbox and PS4, cable box running to the Marantz 7702mkii. HDMI out audio from my Oppo also to the Marantz. Then HDMI out 1 from the Marantz to my 55 inch Sony, HDMI out 2 to my Epson into the 1.4 HDMI in, and the directly from the Oppo out to the Epson 2.0 input.
> 
> Makes sense hah? Will that still work? I am thinking how the picture will be using the 1.4 input on the Epson for everything but the Oppo?
> 
> Thanks.


That's pretty much how I'm running to my JVC, the Celerity directly from the Oppo 203 to the JVC, everything else, (including audio from the Oppo 203) to the Marantz and a normal HDMI from the Marantz to the JVC.


----------



## brianlvi3

Kazz063 said:


> That's pretty much how I'm running to my JVC, the Celerity directly from the Oppo 203 to the JVC, everything else, (including audio from the Oppo 203) to the Marantz and a normal HDMI from the Marantz to the JVC.


What kind of inputs does the JVC have? Is only one 2.0? I was wondering what kind of picture I would get running to my 1.4 HDMI input?


----------



## Tim in Scottsdale

Guys

There are some pricey commercial Fiber Optic HDMI offerings good for hundreds of feet on low resolutions but they may be untested for 4K at this early date.

Lantronix made a system that could take cadcam workstation RGBHV over a quarter mile noiseless; not sure if they have an HDMI offering yet.


----------



## alebonau

forget about 100s of feet. am keen to see a certified premium cable over 10m/32 feet which is quite a common length for people. I cant believe uhd has been out and about for nearly 12 months now and we still dont have cables that are certified to be suitable. ! 

yet every UHD disc I buy stupidly says on it part from a player and telly all you need is a high speed hdmi (cat 2 ) cable... as if thats any real help for people


----------



## VidPro

alebonau said:


> forget about 100s of feet. am keen to see a certified premium cable over 10m/32 feet which is quite a common length for people. I cant believe uhd has been out and about for nearly 12 months now and we still dont have cables that are certified to be suitable. !
> 
> yet every UHD disc I buy stupidly says on it part from a player and telly all you need is a high speed hdmi (cat 2 ) cable... as if thats any real help for people


That's exactly what I'm looking for since my cable needs to be buried in a wall. I need thirty feet approximately and I'm stuck not knowing what to buy. I want to get the cable in place before I purchase a 2017 LG OLED.


----------



## Otto Pylot

VidPro said:


> That's exactly what I'm looking for since my cable needs to be buried in a wall. I need thirty feet approximately and I'm stuck not knowing what to buy. I want to get the cable in place before I purchase a 2017 LG OLED.


If you're going to install in-wall, you have to use conduit. 1.5" - 2.0". Connection technology is still way behind the video technology and you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later, so with the use of a conduit (with a pull-string for adding additional cabling later to the exisiting cable) life will be so much easier. The mantra here is conduit conduit conduit 

Passive or active Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC) will probably work up to about 25'. Some have had luck a bit longer, some have not even been able to hit 15' so, as they say, ymmv. A thicker gauge wire (24AWG or better) seems to work well but then you lose flexibility (bend radius is important) and increase the strain on the inputs. Personally, I would never install an HDMI cable in-wall. Instead, I'd install solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and NOT CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then actively terminate with something like HDBT, of which the newer chipsets are coming soon to handle the higher video standards, or install a fiber optic cable (Celerity). Keep in mind that cable mfrs and resellers are the kings of marketing and their cable descriptions sound really good, but most are misleading. What ever you end up purchasing, I'd lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before running it thru the conduit. Using a conduit is the only way to "future proof" your cabling and while it is easier to replace/upgrade, it's still a hassle.


----------



## VidPro

Otto Pylot said:


> If you're going to install in-wall, you have to use conduit. 1.5" - 2.0". Connection technology is still way behind the video technology and you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later, so with the use of a conduit (with a pull-string for adding additional cabling later to the exisiting cable) life will be so much easier. The mantra here is conduit conduit conduit
> 
> Passive or active Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC) will probably work up to about 25'. Some have had luck a bit longer, some have not even been able to hit 15' so, as they say, ymmv. A thicker gauge wire (24AWG or better) seems to work well but then you lose flexibility (bend radius is important) and increase the strain on the inputs. Personally, I would never install an HDMI cable in-wall. Instead, I'd install solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and NOT CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then actively terminate with something like HDBT, of which the newer chipsets are coming soon to handle the higher video standards, or install a fiber optic cable (Celerity). Keep in mind that cable mfrs and resellers are the kings of marketing and their cable descriptions sound really good, but most are misleading. What ever you end up purchasing, I'd lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before running it thru the conduit. Using a conduit is the only way to "future proof" your cabling and while it is easier to replace/upgrade, it's still a hassle.


Thanks. I love the conduit idea but we'll be selling this house in several years so I'll hold off on the conduit idea until I get my propper home theater room. Finally.  

Most of the run is under baseboard heaters and only at the TV wall will it need to be in wall. It's just a pain ripping off the wood trim etc.

I agree and will take the advice to just wait until I can test it. Never thought the cable would be my biggest headache.


----------



## alebonau

was a suprise to find the postman with billy ...










I couldnt wait to pop in the player. I made sure the pana was set for 4k 50/60 output

pana shows this on home menu once selected









and jvc shows the below,










once movie gets up and going pana reports 4k60









and jvc reports as per below,










just gave it a little run just to see if works. long synch times.... and not even shutting the blinds for day time viewing very obvious ! hits you in the face !!! my GOD ! is this some of the MOST stunning pics have seen on the jvc ???

Goodness it looks stunning. cant wait to watch at some stage...when get come time. the detail the richness of pics ! 

and guess what it has a FULL 3D audio atmos track to boot ! what a treat in store


----------



## Kazz063

alebonau said:


> was a suprise to find the postman with billy ...
> 
> I couldnt wait to pop in the player. I made sure the pana was set for 4k 50/60 output
> 
> 
> once movie gets up and going pana reports 4k60
> 
> just gave it a little run just to see if works. long synch times.... and not even shutting the blinds for day time viewing very obvious ! hits you in the face !!! my GOD ! is this some of the MOST stunning pics have seen on the jvc ???
> 
> Goodness it looks stunning. cant wait to watch at some stage...when get come time. the detail the richness of pics !
> 
> and guess what it has a FULL 3D audio atmos track to boot ! what a treat in store



Tracking says mine hit Melbourne this morning so hopefully tomorrow or Thursday, I'm really looking forward to having a look at this one.
Your enthusiasm on pq has got me really hoping it comes tomorrow.


----------



## ARROW-AV

What with all the hogwash regarding a great many long HDMI cables claiming but in reality failing to properly support 18Gbps bandwidth we are in process of carrying out a due dilligence evaluation and testing exercise to properly determine what's what with respect to the various cable offerings. Specifically we will shortly be comprehensively testing 25 different makes and models of 50ft / 15m HDMI cables claiming 18Gbps performance, with multiple cables of each being tested. This will include testing all types of HDMI cable. 

We will be testing via both use of a Murideo SIX-A 4K HDR 18Gbps Reference Analyzer and Murideo SIX-G 4K HDR Reference Generator, plus also testing actual performance using specifically selected AV kit and video sources. 

We hope to complete this evaluation exercise within circa the next 3-4 weeks and we will be sure to post our report on here in this thread, for those who are interested. So watch this space  

Following this it is our intention to subsequently re-test all the cables that fail the first round of testing, with cable length reduced to 33ft / 10m, to confirm whether these cables pass at this short cable length.

This should hopefully yield a useful resource that folks can use to avoid the 'Russian Roulette' that is the current circumstance with respect to sourcing long HDMI cables that actually deliver on the corresponding marketing spiel that claims the cables deliver 18Gbps performance, when in reality the vast majority do not.

.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that's good to hear. Looking forward to your evaluations.


----------



## Kazz063

Kazz063 said:


> Tracking says mine hit Melbourne this morning so hopefully tomorrow or Thursday, I'm really looking forward to having a look at this one.
> Your enthusiasm on pq has got me really hoping it comes tomorrow.


I finally got the time to watch Billy Lynn last night, can only reiterate what Al said WOW!!!


----------



## Kazz063

brianlvi3 said:


> What kind of inputs does the JVC have? Is only one 2.0? I was wondering what kind of picture I would get running to my 1.4 HDMI input?


Yep both 2.0, if you're running 1080p into the 1.4 input there will be no issues with PQ.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> yet every UHD disc I buy stupidly says on it part from a player and telly all you need is a high speed hdmi (cat 2 ) cable... as if thats any real help for people


That's because technically there are only two kinds of HDMI cable. Either passive or active High Speed. High speed HDMI is a rather large category depending on what you are attempting to accomplish. HDMI 1.4 hardware requires a high speed cable and so does HDMI 2.0a. HDMI 2.1 will also require a high speed HDMI cable but I certainly hope they are a bit more descriptive in their naming such as a "48Gbps High Speed HDMI" cable. IMO, the entire industry is very misleading.


----------



## brianlvi3

ARROW-AV said:


> What with all the hogwash regarding a great many long HDMI cables claiming but in reality failing to properly support 18Gbps bandwidth we are in process of carrying out a due dilligence evaluation and testing exercise to properly determine what's what with respect to the various cable offerings. Specifically we will shortly be comprehensively testing at least 12 brands of 50 feet HDMI cables claiming 18GBPS and [email protected] performance, with multiple cables of each being tested.
> 
> We will be testing via both use of a Murideo SIX-A 4K HDR 18GBPS Reference Analyzer and also testing actual performance via both JVC X9500 and X7500 projectors using specifically selected video sources.
> 
> We will be also testing Celerity 50 foot Fiber Optic HDMI cable as well.
> 
> We hope to complete this evaluation exercise within the next 2 weeks and we will be sure to post our report on here in this thread, for those who are interested. So watch this space


I for one can not wait. Right now I am using a combo of a 30 foot Blue Jeans Cable Series 1 for all my non 4K materials, Xbox, PS4, Cable box. Than a 30 foot Celerity from my Oppo directly to my Epson 5040. So far works great. It will not work with anything coming out of my Marantz 7702 to my PJ.


----------



## brianlvi3

Kazz063 said:


> Yep both 2.0, if you're running 1080p into the 1.4 input there will be no issues with PQ.


Thanks. Works like a charm. Have played about 4 movies so far with no problems and watched a few hours of TV.


----------



## brianlvi3

brianlvi3 said:


> I for one can not wait. Right now I am using a combo of a 30 foot Blue Jeans Cable Series 1 for all my non 4K materials, Xbox, PS4, Cable box. Than a 30 foot Celerity from my Oppo directly to my Epson 5040. So far works great. It will not work with anything coming out of my Marantz 7702 to my PJ.


Let me clear up the last part. The Blue Jeans cable comes out of my Marantz and goes to the Epson PJ and will pass a non 4K signal.

The Celerity will pass 4k to the PJ without going through the Marantz.


----------



## ARROW-AV

brianlvi3 said:


> *I for one can not wait. *Right now I am using a combo of a 30 foot Blue Jeans Cable Series 1 for all my non 4K materials, Xbox, PS4, Cable box. Than a 30 foot Celerity from my Oppo directly to my Epson 5040. So far works great. It will not work with anything coming out of my Marantz 7702 to my PJ.


Haha, no worries! Sorry it is going to take circa 2-3 weeks to complete assembling all the HDMI Cables, carry out, and document all the testing... Suffice to say, we are doing this properly so it can't be rushed unfortunately! And just to give everyone a headsup regarding what to expect, we will be testing 25 different makes and models of 50 foot / 15 metre HDMI cables that claim to deliver [email protected] with 4:4:4 and 18Gbps bandwidth, and we will be testing 4 number cables of each and every one of these... plus will also be testing the Celerity too  So please be a little patient with us folks! But it won't be too long to wait! 
.


----------



## jong1

brianlvi3 said:


> Let me clear up the last part. The Blue Jeans cable comes out of my Marantz and goes to the Epson PJ and will pass a non 4K signal.
> 
> The Celerity will pass 4k to the PJ without going through the Marantz.


18Gbps is stupidly hard. I hate to think how 48Gbps (HDMI 2.1 Is going to go).

I too have a 30ft Celerity cable that worked perfectly with 2 different 18Gbps sources, but which would show "sparkles" when sources went through my Yamaha 2060. Interestingly, my Chromecast Ultra, which of course needs no cable to connect, also showed sparkles, but not if direct connected to the TV.

We tried a second 2060, which was a little better, but still sparkled. The 2nd HDMI output would not even reliably sync!

Eventually, Yamaha swapped my 2060 for a 3060 free of charge and all is now perfect. Great customer service from Yamaha!!

Yamaha have said the HDMI board is the same in both AVRs, but presumably there was additional noise in the 2060, or the signal path is different or, maybe, it was just a matter of luck and some Yamahas pass and some, don't quite (all modes


----------



## G-Rex

ARROW-AV said:


> Haha, no worries! Sorry it is going to take circa 2-3 weeks to complete assembling all the HDMI Cables, carry out, and document all the testing... Suffice to say, we are doing this properly so it can't be rushed unfortunately! And just to give everyone a headsup regarding what to expect, we will be testing 21 different makes and models of 50 foot / 15 metre HDMI cables that claim to deliver [email protected] with 4:4:4 and 18Gbps bandwidth, and we will be testing 4 number cables of each and every one of these... plus will also be testing the Celerity too  So please be a little patient with us folks! But it won't be too long to wait!


I hope your testing Ethereal's Gigabit Accelerator with their new Velox Passive cable.


----------



## Kazz063

brianlvi3 said:


> Let me clear up the last part. The Blue Jeans cable comes out of my Marantz and goes to the Epson PJ and will pass a non 4K signal.
> 
> The Celerity will pass 4k to the PJ without going through the Marantz.


I haven't tried the Celerity from my Marantz 7010 to the PJ only direct from the Oppo, I'll have to try it out on the weekend.


----------



## brianlvi3

Kazz063 said:


> I haven't tried the Celerity from my Marantz 7010 to the PJ only direct from the Oppo, I'll have to try it out on the weekend.


I am curious to see how it goes. I had nothing but problems with my Celerity 30 foot cable. Even with non 4K materials.


----------



## brianlvi3

jong1 said:


> 18Gbps is stupidly hard. I hate to think how 48Gbps (HDMI 2.1 Is going to go).
> 
> I too have a 30ft Celerity cable that worked perfectly with 2 different 18Gbps sources, but which would show "sparkles" when sources went through my Yamaha 2060. Interestingly, my Chromecast Ultra, which of course needs no cable to connect, also showed sparkles, but not if direct connected to the TV.
> 
> We tried a second 2060, which was a little better, but still sparkled. The 2nd HDMI output would not even reliably sync!
> 
> Eventually, Yamaha swapped my 2060 for a 3060 free of charge and all is now perfect. Great customer service from Yamaha!!
> 
> Yamaha have said the HDMI board is the same in both AVRs, but presumably there was additional noise in the 2060, or the signal path is different or, maybe, it was just a matter of luck and some Yamahas pass and some, don't quite (all modes


----------



## ARROW-AV

G-Rex said:


> I hope your testing Ethereal's Gigabit Accelerator with their new Velox Passive cable.


As a matter of fact... we are


----------



## Joe Fernand

_' It will not work with anything coming out of my Marantz 7702 to my PJ'_ - which is why you have to be careful about any form of 'testing' as a definitive guide as there are so many variables at play that unless you had the ability to test a cable (which included any form of active chip set) in every possible combination of kit it is still simply a guideline!

So far we have had good results with the Celerity 18Gbps DOF cables (if only Celerity's supply chain was so predictable!).

Joe


----------



## alebonau

ARROW-AV said:


> Haha, no worries! Sorry it is going to take circa 2-3 weeks to complete assembling all the HDMI Cables, carry out, and document all the testing... Suffice to say, we are doing this properly so it can't be rushed unfortunately! And just to give everyone a headsup regarding what to expect, we will be testing 21 different makes and models of 50 foot / 15 metre HDMI cables that claim to deliver [email protected] with 4:4:4 and 18Gbps bandwidth, and we will be testing 4 number cables of each and every one of these... plus will also be testing the Celerity too  So please be a little patient with us folks! But it won't be too long to wait!


oh wow 15m will be a challenge for some no doubt. I so wish were testing 10m 32ft as a popular length and would probably pick up some cables that would fail at 15m/50ft

though I guess the ones that pass at 15m likely a pass at 10m as well.

i do agree with the comments re equipment combination. definitely it would seem some things working in some combos just dont seem to do it in others.


----------



## StephenBishop

jong1 said:


> So, it could well be the Marantz that is struggling at 18Gbps. Maybe next year's AVRs will be more bullet proof!



Yes, my Marantz 8802A also struggles to pass 18Gbps- in fact it does not pass 18 Gbps! I get flawless 18Gbps from my Panny directly to my Sony VW5000ES using a 15m Celerity DFO cable but a completely unstable and unusable 18Gbps from the Panny to the Marantz 8802A using a 2m certified 18Gbps cable from Monoprice and the 15m Celerity DFO cable from the Marantz 8802A to the Sony VW5000ES. Imho, the problem is definitely the Marantz 8802A in my set up.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Is your Marantz an actual 8802A or an upgraded 8802 with the new HDMI board installed at the factory?


----------



## StephenBishop

Dave Vaughn said:


> Is your Marantz an actual 8802A or an upgraded 8802 with the new HDMI board installed at the factory?


An actual 8802A


----------



## alebonau

StephenBishop said:


> Yes, my Marantz 8802A also struggles to pass 18Gbps- in fact it does not pass 18 Gbps! I get flawless 18Gbps from my Panny directly to my Sony VW5000ES using a 15m Celerity DFO cable but a completely unstable and unusable 18Gbps from the Panny to the Marantz 8802A using a 2m certified 18Gbps cable from Monoprice and the 15m Celerity DFO cable from the Marantz 8802A to the Sony VW5000ES. Imho, the problem is definitely the Marantz 8802A in my set up.


SB I have the 8802A myslelf and its passing without even a certified cable and being a long 10m one at that. and this using both the pany and oppo.

not sure what the issue is but i suspect not 8802A related but related to something going on with either combination of gear or cable/s.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Joe Fernand said:


> _' It will not work with anything coming out of my Marantz 7702 to my PJ'_ - which is why you have to be careful about any form of 'testing' as a definitive guide as there are so many variables at play that unless you had the ability to test a cable (which included any form of active chip set) in every possible combination of kit it is still simply a guideline! So far we have had good results with the Celerity 18Gbps DOF cables (if only Celerity's supply chain was so predictable!). Joe


Hi Joe, absolutely agree with what you say here... Suffice to say our testing will be the sort that hopefully doesn't warrant 'quotation marks'  That said, whilst it won't be absolutely impossible for our findings and reporting with respect to a particular make and model of cable to be non-representative of typical, it will be very highly improbable for this to be the case... In other words, we are carrying out comprehensive tests on each cable, including directly testing the bandwidth capacity via a reference analyzer and generator, as well as multiple tests with respect to multiple chains of multiple instances of actual kit and hence actual performance as such, plus multiple instances, namely 4, of each and every cable; all of which should yield a pretty accurate guide with respect to which cables actually work and which do not  

So, for example if we find all 4 cables of a particular make and model all fail all tests then that's indicative that it's highly probable that if you buy that particular make and model of cable it is not going to work... Where the fact of the matter is that it's quite frankly shocking the extent of the bogus marketing information relating to these cables which has and continues to create a nightmare for all AV enthusiasts and professionals alike... and so whilst we are kind of expecting the vast majority if not all the passive cables to all fail, by shining the spot-light on this we hope that at the very least some of these brands might alter their marketing information to reflect the reality more accurately as opposed to complete fantasy, and/or at the very least provide a useful resource that folks can use to decide which cables to purchase and which to avoid like the plague. Plus it would be nice to discover at least one other alternative to the Celerity so as to give folks more options than just one singular option that works! And it's certainly going to be a very interesting exercise from our own perspective simply to determine what is the full extent of the hogwash   



alebonau said:


> oh wow 15m will be a challenge for some no doubt. I so wish were testing 10m 32ft as a popular length and would probably pick up some cables that would fail at 15m/50ft... though I guess the ones that pass at 15m likely a pass at 10m as well... i do agree with the comments re equipment combination. definitely it would seem some things working in some combos just dont seem to do it in others.


Who said we are not going to also test the 10m/32ft cables?  

This is merely part 1 

We have deliberately chosen to test the 15m/50ft length cables in this instance because: (1) this is the distance that encompasses 99% of all our customers' circumstances, as well as those of all the other AV installers whom we know; (2) with respect to any and all 15m/50ft cables passing the tests it is almost guaranteed that the 10m/32ft versions will also work, for obvious reasons; (3) we would intend to carry out a subsequent testing exercise with respect to any and all of the 15m/50ft cables that fail, where we will simlarly test the 10m/32ft versions of these; (4) this is the most economical way of stucturing the testing that achieves comprehensively testing_ both_ the 15m/50ft_ and _10m/30ft lengths of cables 
.


----------



## alebonau

ARROW-AV said:


> ~
> Who said we are not going to also test the 10m/32ft cables?
> 
> This is merely part 1
> 
> We have deliberately chosen to test the 15m/50ft length cables in this instance because: (1) this is the distance that encompasses 99% of all our customers' circumstances, as well as those of all the other AV installers whom we know; (2) with respect to any and all 15m/50ft cables passing the tests it is almost guaranteed that the 10m/32ft versions will also work, for obvious reasons; (3) we would intend to carry out a subsequent testing exercise with respect to any and all of the 15m/50ft cables that fail, where we will simlarly test the 10m/32ft versions of these; (4) this is the most economical way of stucturing the testing that achieves comprehensively testing_ both_ the 15m/50ft_ and _10m/30ft lengths of cables
> .


I like your thinking and approach


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'simply to determine what is the full extent of the hogwash ' _- I think we should start a beer fund for you and the team 

There are days when I end up going in an ever increasing circle trying to find a 'fix' to some random problem or other with HDMI.

Joe


----------



## jong1

As part of my testing a month ago, I bought a very simple female-female adaptor to try and connect the Chromecast Ultra to the TV using the Celerity cable. if that had worked it would have been another demonstration that the Yamaha 2060 was at fault.

A female-female adaptor should be the simplest thing possible - wires going straight from one end of the adaptor to the other, but, far from fixing the slight sparkles when using the 2060, the picture would not sync properly at all - blank screen every few seconds. The Ultra running through the 3060 over the same cable works perfectly. That is how fragile this stuff is!


----------



## Dave Vaughn

StephenBishop said:


> An actual 8802A


Stephen,

As a test, plug your source into the front HDMI port on the 8802A and see if you get a picture with the Main HDMI output, They are two separate boards and I'm wondering if you could have a faulty HDMI board on the back. This would be a good way to test.


----------



## StephenBishop

Dave Vaughn said:


> Stephen,
> 
> As a test, plug your source into the front HDMI port on the 8802A and see if you get a picture with the Main HDMI output, They are two separate boards and I'm wondering if you could have a faulty HDMI board on the back. This would be a good way to test.


Will check this out and report back- probably over the weekend.


----------



## rmilyard

So I am getting my new Epson 5040ub today. I had a 2030 in the past and liked it. Now the question. Due to wiring and layout I had to run a 50 foot HDMI cable to the old Epson. I can not run any other way then behind this PVC Crown molding we found. I am worried about the cable not handling 4k. This is the cable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW25WY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It wasn't a high price one but seemed fine. So per specs sounds like SHOULD work and I will try out when new projector comes and I get it back up.

If doesn't what suggestions you guys have?

Maybe something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N6HM1RL/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## ARROW-AV

rmilyard said:


> So I am getting my new Epson 5040ub today. I had a 2030 in the past and liked it. Now the question. Due to wiring and layout I had to run a 50 foot HDMI cable to the old Epson. I can not run any other way then behind this PVC Crown molding we found. I am worried about the cable not handling 4k. This is the cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW25WY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It wasn't a high price one but seemed fine. So per specs sounds like SHOULD work and I will try out when new projector comes and I get it back up. If doesn't what suggestions you guys have? Maybe something like this? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N6HM1RL/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


You may wish to have a read of THIS (Post #638): http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-22.html#post51041313


----------



## SJHT

I'm purchasing whatever your study recommends. I need a 50' HDMI cable to go from my system stack to my projector. Currently using monoprice which works well with 9GHz, but completely fail at 18GHz (even though the specs state it should work). The wiring runs under our house and not simple to replace, so want some verification before purchasing. Thanks for doing this. Also, the reason I didn't purchase the celebrity fiber is that several people have had issues with them. Lumagen doesn't recommend them as they have had customers with issues even though some reviews have been positive. SJ


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ just keep in mind that no one is going to be able to give you a 100% guarantee on any cable for 18Gbps. There are just too many variables such as the AWG of the cable, your connected devices, length of run (50' for a passive and even active cable is pushing it), bend radius, quality of cable build from lot to lot, etc. Hopefully the testing that ARROW-AV is doing will shed some light on the copper cable problems and give some folks more options than just a fiber optic cable. I would certainly lay the cable out on the floor before you install it and thoroughly test it before installation. Using a conduit would certainly make it easier because you will more than likely be replacing the cable again at some point in time.


----------



## mikela

SJHT said:


> Lumagen doesn't recommend them as they have had customers with issues even though some reviews have been positive. SJ


That must have happened sometime after Jim posted this. Do you have a link?


----------



## SJHT

mikela said:


> That must have happened sometime after Jim posted this. Do you have a link?



No, it was from a recent email from Jim as I was installing a new 18 GHz output card on my Lumagen Pro and was having nothing but issues with my current HDMI cables (monoprice Redmere and monoprice fiber). That was Jim's post prior to having 18 GHz output cards as they originally only offered 9 Ghz on the Lumagen Pro. All my Monoprice cables worked perfectly with the 9 Ghz output card, just not the new 18 Ghz card... Thanks. SJ


----------



## mikela

Thanks...good to know. I just installed my 18GHz output card today. I need about 45' so I'll wait and see how ARROW-AV's testing turns out.


----------



## kaotikr1

SJHT said:


> I'm purchasing whatever your study recommends. I need a 50' HDMI cable to go from my system stack to my projector. Currently using monoprice which works well with 9GHz, but completely fail at 18GHz (even though the specs state it should work). The wiring runs under our house and not simple to replace, so want some verification before purchasing. Thanks for doing this. Also, the reason I didn't purchase the celebrity fiber is that several people have had issues with them. Lumagen doesn't recommend them as they have had customers with issues even though some reviews have been positive. SJ




Count me as one who has a celertiy and issues with the Lumagen Pro. I'm looking for around a 50' cable too but Jim has provided a recommendation so going to try that.


----------



## ARROW-AV

kaotikr1 said:


> Count me as one who has a celertiy and issues with the Lumagen Pro. I'm looking for around a 50' cable too but Jim has provided a recommendation so going to try that.


That's interesting... Which make and model of cable is it? We would like to ensure we include it in our evaluation, if not already doing so


----------



## jong1

kaotikr1 said:


> Count me as one who has a celertiy and issues with the Lumagen Pro. I'm looking for around a 50' cable too but Jim has provided a recommendation so going to try that.


A faulty cable is, of course, a possibility. But if there is a common problem specifically with Lumagen I would bet it's their problem. Too many positive results with Celerity for it to have a fundamental issue.

As I've mentioned before, I had a Yamaha 2060 that couldn't quite pass 18Gbps flawlessly. Tried two. Yamaha upgraded for free to a 3060 and all works perfectly. Imperfect sources are not uncommon @18Gbps, especially if in the middle of the chain.


----------



## bluechunks

jong1 said:


> A faulty cable is, of course, a possibility. But if there is a common problem specifically with Lumagen I would bet it's their problem. Too many positive results with Celerity for it to have a fundamental issue.


Count me as another satisfied Celerity owner.

Of note, there are two versions of their HDMI solution and the obsolete version only supported 13Gbps if that is an unintended point of confusion.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> A faulty cable is, of course, a possibility. But if there is a common problem specifically with Lumagen I would bet it's their problem. Too many positive results with Celerity for it to have a fundamental issue.
> 
> As I've mentioned before, I had a Yamaha 2060 that couldn't quite pass 18Gbps flawlessly. Tried two. Yamaha upgraded for free to a 3060 and all works perfectly. Imperfect sources are not uncommon @18Gbps, especially if in the middle of the chain.


You are absolutely right in what you say about the cable not always being the issue, where despite the fact that in the vast majority of instances any and all such problems do indeed reside with the cable, it is not always so. 

Fortunately (but deliberately) we are comprehensively testing all cables in their own right using professional reference video signal analyzing and generator equipment, and we are thereby eliminating all AV equipment out of the equation. In other words we will be testing the cable itself and only the cable, without any other influences. In addition to this, we are carrying out further testing using typical consumer video source material outputted from a typical chain of audiovisual equipment, but without a Lumagen Radiance Pro. Consequently, this should yield a very good indication as to what's what, in that if all the Celerity cables pass all of our tests then this would indicate that it is highly probable that the issues being reported by the various folks with respect to the Celerity cables not performing properly with the Lumagen Pro resides not with the cable itself, but with the Lumagen. Either way, we shall see. 
.


----------



## jong1

bluechunks said:


> Count me as another satisfied Celerity owner.
> 
> Of note, there are two versions of their HDMI solution and the obsolete version only supported 13Gbps if that is an unintended point of confusion.


YES! Very important.

There is some old stock in the supply chain in some places that you might get in error. I did!

You can tell by the design of the head ends. This post details: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-13.html#post47841137


----------



## kaotikr1

jong1 said:


> A faulty cable is, of course, a possibility. But if there is a common problem specifically with Lumagen I would bet it's their problem. Too many positive results with Celerity for it to have a fundamental issue.
> 
> As I've mentioned before, I had a Yamaha 2060 that couldn't quite pass 18Gbps flawlessly. Tried two. Yamaha upgraded for free to a 3060 and all works perfectly. Imperfect sources are not uncommon @18Gbps, especially if in the middle of the chain.


I want to make sure it's clear that I know the celerity cable is good as if I bypass the Lumagen I can get 4K/60/HDR without issue, also as a test I moved my lumagen to my projector room and used the celerity on the input side of the lumagen and a small 6' cable from the output to the input of the projector and that test worked fine. So the only time I am having issues is when the lumagen is in my rack and the celerity is sitting on the output side. There seems to be a compatibility issue between the two.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE:* Hi folks, just to let everyone know that we have now received delivery of the majority of the HDMI cables that we will be featuring in our first round of testing. We're now chasing delivery of the remainder.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE: *We are just waiting for the last 2 makes and models of cables now, and given we will be attending CinemaCon we will be aiming to complete the testing and post our report on here prior to that and hence by the end of next week, so watch this space 

And as a point of interest here is a photo of what *should* happen but probably won't with respect to the majority of the HDMI cables that we will be testing:


----------



## SJHT

I got the combo that Lumagen recommends. Ethereal HDM-GA1, MHX 15 meter and MHX 2 meter cable. Immediately upon installing my projector for the first time seem to work well. Never have seen the 12 bit status turn on. SJ


----------



## ARROW-AV




----------



## bluechunks

ARROW-AV said:


>


Oh oh!

This should be interesting.....

Have to ask....13 or 18Gbps cable?


----------



## ARROW-AV

bluechunks said:


> Oh oh!
> 
> This should be interesting.....
> 
> Have to ask....13 or 18Gbps cable?


18Gbps, 50ft/15.2m

Suffice to say we did not expect this and so we ran the test 20 times swapping out with another cable in-between that we have been using a reference cable that we know fully supports 18Gbps, just to make absolutely sure. 20 out of 20 times the Celerity cable failed the 18Gbps bandwidth test, whilst 20 out of 20 times the reference cable passed it. And we made absolutely sure that we had the Celerity cable installed properly, in the correct direction and properly powered via USB. So there's absolutely zero doubt whatsoever that this particular '18Gbps' Celerity cable does not in fact support 18Gbps.

We will be testing another 3 of the same, totalling 4; which is what we are doing with respect to all the cables.


----------



## bluechunks

ARROW-AV said:


> 18Gbps, 50ft/15.2m
> 
> Suffice to say we did not expect this and so we ran the test 20 times swapping out with another cable in-between that we have been using a reference cable that we know fully supports 18Gbps, just to make absolutely sure. 20 out of 20 times the Celerity cable failed the 18Gbps bandwidth test, whilst 20 out of 20 times the reference cable passed it. And we made absolutely sure that we had the Celerity cable installed properly, in the correct direction and properly powered via USB. So there's absolutely zero doubt whatsoever that this particular '18Gbps' Celerity cable does not in fact support 18Gbps.
> 
> We will be testing another 3 of the same, totalling 4; which is what we are doing with respect to all the cables.


Wow.

Thanks for your VERY thorough testing.

I'll be following your results closely.

Cheers!


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ARROW-AV said:


> 18Gbps, 50ft/15.2m
> 
> Suffice to say we did not expect this and so we ran the test 20 times swapping out with another cable in-between that we have been using a reference cable that we know fully supports 18Gbps, just to make absolutely sure. 20 out of 20 times the Celerity cable failed the 18Gbps bandwidth test, whilst 20 out of 20 times the reference cable passed it. And we made absolutely sure that we had the Celerity cable installed properly, in the correct direction and properly powered via USB. So there's absolutely zero doubt whatsoever that this particular '18Gbps' Celerity cable does not in fact support 18Gbps.
> 
> We will be testing another 3 of the same, totalling 4; which is what we are doing with respect to all the cables.


That's very surprising considering how much luck people have had with them (even me). Did it pass any of the tests?


----------



## Otto Pylot

I too am surprised. A fault in the testing procedure maybe?


----------



## ARROW-AV




----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> A fault in the testing procedure maybe?


No



Dave Vaughn said:


> That's very surprising considering how much luck people have had with them (even me). Did it pass any of the tests?


We've now tested all four cables. Three passed all the tests. The one that did not failed the 18Gbps test but passed all the others. In other words the 18Gbps test was the only test it failed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> No
> 
> We've now tested all four cables. Three passed all the tests. The one that did not failed the 18Gbps test but passed all the others. In other words the 18Gbps test was the only test it failed.


Which re-enforces the fact that even with a "certificate of compliance", there are no guarantees that a cable will meet the customer's needs regardless of the mfr's claims unless testing/certification is done on each individual cable and not batch tested.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ARROW-AV said:


>


Were all the cables the same length? 3/4 passed, so maybe its a QC issue with one cable, which could be 1 out of 100 for all we know. This is where the company would be given the opportunity to replace the cable and make things right. Furthermore, it's why you ALWAYS test a cable outside the wall before pulling it to ensure that it works.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Which re-enforces the fact that even with a "certificate of compliance", there are no guarantees that a cable will meet the customer's needs regardless of the mfr's claims unless testing/certification is done on each individual cable and not batch tested.


Absolutely agree. But what we are hoping to achieve with the extent of testing that we are doing is to reveal certain makes and models of HDMI cable solutions which have the least incidence of failure and so the greatest incidence of delivering full 18Gbps bandwidth support. But we have yet to discover a product where it can be said for sure that 100.0% of all cables will pass the 18Gbps cable testing. So until that Holy Grail of cables manifests itself the best we can do is choose to use the cables which have the lowest failure rate and be sure to test the cable's functionality prior to installation. Regarding which it's going to be very interesting indeed to see what is the actual performance of the rest of the cables we are testing 


Dave Vaughn said:


> Were all the cables the same length? 3/4 passed, so maybe its a QC issue with one cable, which could be 1 out of 100 for all we know. This is where the company would be given the opportunity to replace the cable and make things right. Furthermore, it's why you ALWAYS test a cable outside the wall before pulling it to ensure that it works.


Yes indeed. Agree with everything you say here. And to answer your question, yes, all 4 cables are identical length, namely 50ft /15.2m, however, it's worth noting that the cable that failed was mailed by itself, whereas the other three arrived together but a week later, and it was the singular cable that was the cable to fail, so it could be batch related. But one things for sure, our testing multiple cables of each and not just one is of paramount performance.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

ARROW-AV said:


> Yes indeed. Agree with everything you say here. And to answer your question, yes, all 4 cables are identical length, namely 50ft /15.2m, however, it's worth noting that the cable that failed was mailed by itself, whereas the other three arrived together but a week later, and it was the singular cable that was the cable to fail, so it could be batch related. But one things for sure, our testing multiple cables of each and not just one is of paramount performance.


I agree about testing multiple cables, especially if one fails. In fact, I've seen posts from some that a certain cable works for them and not for others or it worked outside the wall but as soon as they pulled it through conduit, it didn't work anymore (because the cable bends can interrupt the signal). It still comes back to how the hell are we going to get 48MBPS to work???


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dave Vaughn said:


> It still comes back to how the hell are we going to get 48MBPS to work???


Keep the cable length to 10' max 

ARROW-AV - were there lot numbers/batch numbers associated with the cables?


----------



## ARROW-AV

Dave Vaughn said:


> I agree about testing multiple cables, especially if one fails. In fact, I've seen posts from some that a certain cable works for them and not for others or it worked outside the wall but as soon as they pulled it through conduit, it didn't work anymore (because the cable bends can interrupt the signal).


We're definitely on the same page regarding all of this. 

An evaluation of anything where only one unit per each of whatever is used is only statistically valid when there is absolutely zero (or at the very most a non-significant) performance variance between all the units of that particular make and model of whatever. Clearly this is not the case with respect to the Gbps bandwidth performance of HDMI cables, in that as we have all observed and I am sure we can all agree there can be and often is a significant variance between bandwidth performance of HDMI cables, including across the same make and model of HDMI cable. Consequently, for such an evaluation exercise and report to be statistically valid and useful testing singular cables is a no go and contrarily testing multiple cables of each is a necessity. Hence, why we from the outset where possible chose to test 4 number cables of each and every different make and model of cable.

Of course what we will not have allowed for is the effect on the cable that pulling it through conduits might have, in that the distress caused by this can cause the cable to fail in its own right. We did think about doing so via installing a 'dummy conduit', with all sorts of twists and turns and random angles, onto one of the walls in our audiovisual laboratory and pulling the cables through that. But we considered it would be impossible to apply the same identical magnitude of distress by doing so, and hence the consequential distress and negative effect on the cables would be highly variable, so for this reason we decided against doing it. We figured that what our comprehensive testing evaluation and report would yield is an accurate indication with respect to what is the performance of the respective cables PRE-INSTALLATION and as such will provide a true apples-with-apples comparison across the board. Wherein, the monkey is on the back of the AV professional/installer to ensure that the cables are installed without negatively affecting the performance of the cables, and therein choose an appropriate manner of installation that does not overly stress or damage the cables.



Dave Vaughn said:


> It still comes back to *how the hell are we going to get 48MBPS to work???*


I know! Right? 







That said, hopefully by the time we see 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cables the quality control and certification processes will have evolved in a more positive and most importantly reliable direction as compared with the state of affairs right now, which is a complete sorry mess of a situation!


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep the cable length to 10' max


Or more like 3' max!  



Otto Pylot said:


> ARROW-AV - were there lot numbers/batch numbers associated with the cables?


Probably. But please note, we won't be playing detective if that's OK. We therefore will be simply reporting the facts as they are without investigating further the reasons why any particular make and model and unit of cable fails. Firstly, we don't have the time to investigate why cables fail, and secondly we need to remain fully neutral and impartial in all of this. If we do it for Celerity it is only fair that we do it for all brands; and the amount of time involved with organizing, administering, carrying out and documenting all of the tests and results is already _very_ considerably time consuming 

We don't know why one of the Celerity cables failed the 18Gbps test. But it did. And so there you go. But let's choose to focus on the positive, namely that 3 out of 4 cables passed, where for all we know it might pass 9 out of 10 or 99 out of 100. Sod's Law means we tested a bad cable. Precisely what percentage are bad cables? Who knows! You'd need to test 100 cables that are randomly selected from many different batches to accurately determine that. But what we can take away from this is that in the vast majority of cases the Celerity cables properly and fully support 18Gbps, and if yours does not then you should simply return your cable in exchange for another where the probability will be extremely high that your second cable will work perfectly. Because given the slim chance of receiving one bad cable, the probability of receiving two in a row is mathematically multiplied and hence exponentially small. So as of right now, until we discover anything else that passes 3 out of the 4 tests or more, Celerity is still the best cable of choice. But let's see what comes out of the rest of our testing


----------



## Icaro

*Extron HD 4K 101 Plus HDMI Cable Equalizer for 4K/60 Sources
*

http://www.inavateonthenet.net/products/article/extron-equaliser-for-hdmi-extension


----------



## ARROW-AV

Icaro said:


> *Extron HD 4K 101 Plus HDMI Cable Equalizer for 4K/60 Sources
> *
> 
> http://www.inavateonthenet.net/products/article/extron-equaliser-for-hdmi-extension


That seems to be similar to THIS: *METRA HDM-GA1 HDMI GIGABIT ACCELERATOR*

We will investigate further and if appropriate we will obtain this for testing. 

We are already including testing using the METRA HDM-GA1 HDMI GIGABIT ACCELERATOR within our evaluation and report.

Good find!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Icaro said:


> *Extron HD 4K 101 Plus HDMI Cable Equalizer for 4K/60 Sources
> *
> 
> http://www.inavateonthenet.net/products/article/extron-equaliser-for-hdmi-extension


What they say in their promo material and how they deliver over different setups, equipment etc may be two entirely different things. As long as one fully understands their return policy then all you can do is try. The extender is one thing, but you still need a reliable cable to connect to it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV - From what we've seen reported, Celerity does seem to have the best chance of meeting various customer's needs so let's hope that the one failed cable is just a fluke. Again, if one carefully reads the return policy, and tests their setup before installation, potential problems and hassles will be minimized.


----------



## mikela

@ARROW-AV will you be testing the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 15m?


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

mikela said:


> ARROW-AV will you be testing the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 15m?


Yes, I'm very curious about this as well. If it works at 18Gbps, then I'll probably just get this instead of Celerity for $100+ more. Hell, I might try it myself sometime with or without someone else testing it first. Amazon's return policy is alright in case it flops.

Also, here's another fiber optic HDMI cable. https://www.amazon.com/DTECH-Ultra-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1SYVPT3580J7BA9MQ71K

It comes in 100 & 150 ft too. I hope someone can test these as well.


----------



## ARROW-AV

mikela said:


> @ARROW-AV will you be testing the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 15m?


Yes 



Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Also, here's another fiber optic HDMI cable. https://www.amazon.com/DTECH-Ultra-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1SYVPT3580J7BA9MQ71K
> 
> It comes in 100 & 150 ft too. I hope someone can test these as well.


We are testing the 50ft iteration of this cable


----------



## blub-blub

Ok

from what I have read here 4K and 15m / 50ft cables are a real challenge to do and only the following cables have chances to work:

Celerity
Ruipro

I actually intended to use Monoprice Slim Run AV or Luxe CL3 - but both seem to have been tested not to work reliable and the Slimrun has a review on MP web page that it didn't work with a PC (which is mandatory in my case)

I guess I will buy the Ruipro because 1) I dont like the USB power solution and I dont know if I have enough space to accommodate it and 2) its cheaper...but price isn't really the issue here...


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

blub-blub said:


> I guess I will buy the Ruipro because 1) I dont like the USB power solution and I dont know if I have enough space to accommodate it and 2) its cheaper...but price isn't really the issue here...


If the 50ft RUIPRO works out for you, then be sure to let us know. I'm very curious about this one and the DTECH one.


----------



## Laserion

I'll have a only single chance to buy a cable from US, without any testing chance. I won't have any return chance too. I'm quite aware that there's no definite answer for this question. However I'd like to hear any advise.

My distance is quite longer than 50feet. 60 feet should do fine. Now the options;

1- Celerity Technologies DFO-60P Fiber Optic HDMI Cable, 60 Foot - 395 $ - This is the most expensive solution. Almost double of other ones. There's also an older version which doesn't support 18gbps. I won't be able to 100% sure, if i'll get the correct or wrong one. And still too expensive.

2-66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ - 204 $ This cable claims it'll support 22gbps bandwith. It has a one side USB power. However it says again it won't be necessary before 100feet. What concerns me here is there's no user experience and the cable seems not pure fiber optic. It's an active-optical hybrid cable. I don't know why but, i lean towards this one mostly.

3-RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 30m Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology - 229 $ 15m/50feet version of this cable seems to good for 18gbps. But 50ft is not enough for me. I don't need 100feet but there's no middle size version. 100 feet should be extremely challenging to provide 18gbps.

As i said, even no one can be sure about the answer, some advise would be good. Thanks.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Laserion said:


> I'll have a only single chance to buy a cable from US, without any testing chance. I won't have any return chance too. I'm quite aware that there's no definite answer for this question. However I'd like to hear any advise. My distance is quite longer than 50feet. 60 feet should do fine. Now the options... even no one can be sure about the answer, some advise would be good. Thanks.


Our advice is wait for our report which we aim to publish on here by close of business next *Friday 31st March* at the latest. This will provide you and everyone else with the definitive answers we all seek. Otherwise, you are playing Russian Roulette. Even user feedback cannot provide an accurate picture because whilst one cable might work another of precisely the same make and model may not, and so that only way to attain a proper accurate understanding of which cable(s) will work at upwards of 50ft/15m distances one has to carry out a comprehensive testing exercise using multiple cables of each and every make and model of cables claiming 18Gbps bandwidth, using professional reference signal analysis testing equipment; and this is precisely what we are doing. 

Given you won't be able to return your cable I would definitely wait for our report.  



Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> If the 50ft RUIPRO works out for you, then be sure to let us know. I'm very curious about this one and the DTECH one.


The objective of our testing and evaluation exercise is not only to identify which cables actually support 18Gbps and which claim to do so but do not in reality do so, but also to identify the most economical options that will reliably do so. Where, the CELERITY fiber optic cables were included with the intention being that they would be the REFERENCE, in other words it was assumed they they would all be guaranteed to work perfectly, and hence the objective was/is to source other alternatives that are equally reliable but also which at the same time are less expensive than the CELERITY cables, and other options that are even more costly, such as TRIBUTARIES.

So the fact that one of the CELERITY cables failed is most unexpected, and now raises the interesting possibilty of our discovering HDMI cables which are comparatively not only more economical but also more reliable, or at the very least as reliable as the CELERITY cables. 

Hence, given the comparatively more economical pricing of the RUIPRO and DTECH fiber optic HDMI cables suffice to say that if the 50ft/15m cables pass our tests, then we will immediately also be testing the both the DTECH 100ft/30m, 150ft/45m, and 200ft/60m cables and also the RUIPRO 98ft/30m and 164ft/50m cables as well.  
.


----------



## Otto Pylot

How do you test the cables?


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> Our advice is wait for our report which we aim to publish on here by close of business next *Friday 31st March* at the latest. This will provide you and everyone else with the definitive answers we all seek. Otherwise, you are playing Russian Roulette. Even user feedback cannot provide an accurate picture because whilst one cable might work another of precisely the same make and model may not, and so that only way to attain a proper accurate understanding of which cable(s) will work at upwards of 50ft/15m distances one has to carry out a comprehensive testing exercise using multiple cables of each and every make and model of cables claiming 18Gbps bandwidth, using professional reference signal analysis testing equipment; and this is precisely what we are doing.
> 
> Given you won't be able to return your cable I would definitely wait for our report.
> 
> The objective of our testing and evaluation exercise is not only to identify which cables actually support 18Gbps and which claim to do so but do not in reality do so, but also to identify the most economical options that will reliably do so. Where, the CELERITY fiber optic cables were included with the intention being that they would be the REFERENCE, in other words it was assumed they they would all be guaranteed to work perfectly, and hence the objective was/is to source other alternatives that are equally reliable but also which at the same time are less expensive than the CELERITY cables, and other options that are even more costly, such as TRIBUTARIES.
> 
> So the fact that one of the CELERITY cables failed is most unexpected, and now raises the interesting possibilty of our discovering HDMI cables which are comparatively not only more economical but also more reliable, or at the very least as reliable as the CELERITY cables.
> 
> Hence, given the comparatively more economical pricing of the RUIPRO and DTECH fiber optic HDMI cables suffice to say that if the 50ft/15m cables pass our tests, then we will immediately also be testing the both the DTECH 100ft/30m, 150ft/45m, and 200ft/60m cables and also the RUIPRO 98ft/30m and 164ft/50m cables as well.
> .


I'd make three comments on this:

!, Agree, wait for the test results! Worth it for a lot of good data!

2. At the risk of sounding like a Celerity apologist, any manufacturer can have one bad cable. As you said, from one failure we cannot know if the failure rate is 1/5 or 1/100 or 1/1000. This, statistically, will be just as true even if one other cable has a 100% pass rate. The almost entirely positive feedback from users and professional installers suggests (but I agree doesn't guarantee) that the failure rate is pretty low.

3. As distance gets longer optical would be more and more my choice. Effectively distance is irrelevant (up to maybe 1000ft, certainly from 30ft-200ft) you just need the electrical/optical converters to work up to 18Gbps. So at 60ft I would be doubley inclined to use a fiber solution. 100ft vs 50ft should make no difference if the cable is optical. So if the RUIPRO cable works it might be an option.


----------



## Laserion

ARROW-AV said:


> Our advice is wait for our report which we aim to publish on here by close of business next *Friday 31st March* at the latest. This will provide you and everyone else with the definitive answers we all seek. Otherwise, you are playing Russian Roulette. Even user feedback cannot provide an accurate picture because whilst one cable might work another of precisely the same make and model may not, and so that only way to attain a proper accurate understanding of which cable(s) will work at upwards of 50ft/15m distances one has to carry out a comprehensive testing exercise using multiple cables of each and every make and model of cables claiming 18Gbps bandwidth, using professional reference signal analysis testing equipment; and this is precisely what we are doing.
> 
> Given you won't be able to return your cable I would definitely wait for our report.
> 
> The objective of our testing and evaluation exercise is not only to identify which cables actually support 18Gbps and which claim to do so but do not in reality do so, but also to identify the most economical options that will reliably do so. Where, the CELERITY fiber optic cables were included with the intention being that they would be the REFERENCE, in other words it was assumed they they would all be guaranteed to work perfectly, and hence the objective was/is to source other alternatives that are equally reliable but also which at the same time are less expensive than the CELERITY cables, and other options that are even more costly, such as TRIBUTARIES.
> 
> So the fact that one of the CELERITY cables failed is most unexpected, and now raises the interesting possibilty of our discovering HDMI cables which are comparatively not only more economical but also more reliable, or at the very least as reliable as the CELERITY cables.
> 
> Hence, given the comparatively more economical pricing of the RUIPRO and DTECH fiber optic HDMI cables suffice to say that if the 50ft/15m cables pass our tests, then we will immediately also be testing the both the DTECH 100ft/30m, 150ft/45m, and 200ft/60m cables and also the RUIPRO 98ft/30m and 164ft/50m cables as well.
> .


Thanks for the great feedback. I was observing this topic for a quite long time. So, i'm sure that your test will be a great thing for everyone.

But from myside, I should order my cable within 1 or 2 days maximum. Because a friend of mine will be returning on 31th of March from US and he should receive the cable before that day. I mean this issue by saying single shot chance. Otherwise of course I'd wait until whenever you concluded the test.

So, if you have any chance to give me some pre-information with more pre-results, it will help a lot. If nothing's clear before 31th March, i should play my roulette  Anyway, thanks again for your comments.



jong1 said:


> I'd make three comments on this:
> 
> 3. As distance gets longer optical would be more and more my choice. Effectively distance is irrelevant (up to maybe 1000ft, certainly from 30ft-200ft) you just need the electrical/optical converters to work up to 18Gbps. So at 60ft I would be doubley inclined to use a fiber solution. 100ft vs 50ft should make no difference if the cable is optical. So if the RUIPRO cable works it might be an option.


My first choice was the *66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ - 204 $ * but if it's generally agreed that 50ft and 100ft won't make a difference when the cable optical then *RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 30m Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps* can be a better choice. At the end we know that this cable is %100 optical when compared to a HYBRID cable.

****

I wish i had some more time wait and decide, but this is situation.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Laserion said:


> Thanks for the great feedback. I was observing this topic for a quite long time. So, i'm sure that your test will be a great thing for everyone. But from myside, I should order my cable within 1 or 2 days maximum... So, if you have any chance to give me some pre-information with more pre-results, it will help a lot... My first choice was the *66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ - 204 $ * but if it's generally agreed that 50ft and 100ft won't make a difference when the cable optical then *RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 30m Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps* can be a better choice. At the end we know that this cable is %100 optical when compared to a HYBRID cable. **** I wish i had some more time wait and decide, but this is situation.


Based upon the data that we have so far our recommendation to you would be that you purchase a CELERITY fiber optic HDMI cable  It's not the cheapest, but with the information that we have as of today it is the most reliable with respect to properly delivering 18 Gbps. We hope to discover less expensive options via our evaluation and testing exercise, but if you can't wait then this is what we would recommend that you purchase


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> How do you test the cables?


Via both use of a Murideo SIX-A 4K HDR 18Gbps Reference Analyzer and Murideo SIX-G 4K HDR Reference Generator, plus also testing actual performance using specifically selected AV kit and video sources.


----------



## mikela

ARROW-AV said:


> plus also testing actual performance using specifically selected AV kit and video sources.


Will you be testing through a Lumagen?


----------



## ARROW-AV

mikela said:


> Will you be testing through a Lumagen?


No, because that adds an extra variable into the equation and we are testing the cables specifically and not other hardware. We are using consumer video content where we are analyzing the video signal outputted from the video source device via the HDMI cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> Via both use of a Murideo SIX-A 4K HDR 18Gbps Reference Analyzer and Murideo SIX-G 4K HDR Reference Generator, plus also testing actual performance using specifically selected AV kit and video sources.


Straight line testing or do you push bend radius as well? And if so, to what degree?


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Straight line testing or do you push bend radius as well? And if so, to what degree?


You must have not read this which we posted ^^^^  :


ARROW-AV said:


> Of course what we will not have allowed for is the effect on the cable that pulling it through conduits might have, in that the distress caused by this can cause the cable to fail in its own right. We did think about doing so via installing a 'dummy conduit', with all sorts of twists and turns and random angles, onto one of the walls in our audiovisual laboratory and pulling the cables through that. But we considered it would be impossible to apply the same identical magnitude of distress by doing so, and hence the consequential distress and negative effect on the cables would be highly variable, so for this reason we decided against doing it. We figured that what our comprehensive testing evaluation and report would yield is an accurate indication with respect to what is the performance of the respective cables PRE-INSTALLATION and as such will provide a true apples-with-apples comparison across the board. Wherein, the monkey is on the back of the AV professional/installer to ensure that the cables are installed without negatively affecting the performance of the cables, and therein choose an appropriate manner of installation that does not overly stress or damage the cables.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> I'd make three comments on this:
> 
> 1, Agree, wait for the test results! Worth it for a lot of good data!
> 
> 2. At the risk of sounding like a Celerity apologist, any manufacturer can have one bad cable. As you said, from one failure we cannot know if the failure rate is 1/5 or 1/100 or 1/1000. This, statistically, will be just as true even if one other cable has a 100% pass rate. The almost entirely positive feedback from users and professional installers suggests (but I agree doesn't guarantee) that the failure rate is pretty low.
> 
> 3. As distance gets longer optical would be more and more my choice. Effectively distance is irrelevant (up to maybe 1000ft, certainly from 30ft-200ft) you just need the electrical/optical converters to work up to 18Gbps. So at 60ft I would be doubley inclined to use a fiber solution. 100ft vs 50ft should make no difference if the cable is optical. So if the RUIPRO cable works it might be an option.


Agreed on all points!  And in particular with respect to your item (2) which is why with respect to the CELERITY fiber optic HDMI cables we said THIS: 



ARROW-AV said:


> let's choose to focus on the positive, namely that 3 out of 4 cables passed, where for all we know it might pass 9 out of 10 or 99 out of 100. Sod's Law means we tested a bad cable. Precisely what percentage are bad cables? Who knows! You'd need to test 100 cables that are randomly selected from many different batches to accurately determine that. But what we can take away from this is that in the vast majority of cases the Celerity cables properly and fully support 18Gbps, and if yours does not then you should simply return your cable in exchange for another where the probability will be extremely high that your second cable will work perfectly. Because given the slim chance of receiving one bad cable, the probability of receiving two in a row is mathematically multiplied and hence exponentially small. So as of right now, until we discover anything else that passes 3 out of the 4 tests or more, Celerity is still the best cable of choice. But let's see what comes out of the rest of our testing


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> You must have not read this which we posted ^^^^  :


You are correct, I did miss that post. So, your testing is "straight line" without even a gentle cylinder bend? I guess I was looking more for cable integrity when a gentle bend radius is applied and kept in place for a period of time more than the physical pulling of the cable thru a conduit.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> You are correct, I did miss that post. So, your testing is "straight line" without even a gentle cylinder bend? I guess I was looking more for cable integrity when a gentle bend radius is applied and kept in place for a period of time more than the physical pulling of the cable thru a conduit.


No the cables are not a "straight line"; they are rolled up onto a roll with a radius of circa 4"/100mm.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> No the cables are not a "straight line"; they are rolled up onto a roll with a radius of circa 4"/100mm.


Perfect. Thank you.


----------



## aharami

Dave Vaughn said:


> The high costs of cables has to do with their build quality and the ability to work from cable to cable. I'm a big fan of Monoprice, but I know of 4 30 and 35 ft Cabernet and Luxe cables that have all failed to work. Some may work for others, but it's the luck of the draw.


have you or anyone here tried the monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft"?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=21510&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Otto Pylot

aharami said:


> have you or anyone here tried the monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft"?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=21510&seq=1&format=2


Lots of folks have. It works for some and not for others. All you can do is try and pay attention to the return policy. I would lay it out on the floor and test it thoroughly before installation. At 25', I'm assuming this is an in-wall installation?


----------



## aharami

Otto Pylot said:


> Lots of folks have. It works for some and not for others. All you can do is try and pay attention to the return policy. I would lay it out on the floor and test it thoroughly before installation. At 25', I'm assuming this is an in-wall installation?


Yea, it's going to be an in wall installation. I'm only on page 4 of this thread so far and I've only seen some hit/miss posts about the 30ft Cabernet Active cables. I was hoping that QC will be better with the passive cables since they are certified.


----------



## ccool96

I use 4 Celerity cables, all 60ft long, and they have worked well. 

I bought the 30 meter RUIPRO fiber on Amazon and tested it tonight. It worked great. Passed all signals up to 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR. 

I actually prefer this cable to my Celerity cables, mainly because of not needed the external power cords. 

The price for the 30 meter (100 feet) RUIPRO was $229.00 and works flawless. I tried every possible option before switching to the Celerity cables. Prior to the Celerity fiber, no other cables passed 18gpbs sources over long distances. But now the RUIPRO does, and seems to lock onto the signal much faster too. 

I even used them together, the 30 meter RUIPRO from the sources to the AVR, and then the Celerity from the AVR to a Sony 5000ES. Even using them together worked flawless. 

I read the other day the Celerity cable has the ability to handle up to 36gbps if they were to use all of the internal fiber strands, all they would need are new 2.1 certified adapter ends. While not able to handle the full 48gpbs spec of 2.1, if the Celerity can handle 36gbps with new adapters in the future, that could certainly offer a more future proof solution. 

But I highly recommend the new RUIPRO Fiber HDMI cable on Amazon. And the best part with Amazon, is if you are a Prime member it's easy to return anything. So give it a shot!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dave Vaughn

aharami said:


> have you or anyone here tried the monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft"?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=21510&seq=1&format=2


I haven't tried their 25 foot cable, but their 15 foot worked well. They have a good return policy too. As for their active cables, I wouldn't use them for 4K personally...way too inconsistent.


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> Agreed on all points!  And in particular with respect to your item (2) which is why with respect to the CELERITY fiber optic HDMI cables we said THIS:


Indeed you did, which is why I said "As _you _said..." . But in your more recent post you also said:


ARROW-AV said:


> So the fact that one of the CELERITY cables failed is most unexpected, and now raises the interesting possibilty of our discovering HDMI cables which are comparatively not only more economical but also *more reliable*, or at the very least as reliable as the CELERITY cables.


  (my highlighting)

I know you did not mean this, but for those less understanding of these things, I felt it worth saying that no result - even a perfect one, by another cable, is going to statistically prove that it is "more reliable", just that it looks like the design solid and it's a worthy choice. Only more consumer data will show who has the better manufacturing reliability. Hope that's OK.


----------



## Laserion

ccool96 said:


> I use 4 Celerity cables, all 60ft long, and they have worked well.
> 
> I bought the 30 meter RUIPRO fiber on Amazon and tested it tonight. It worked great. Passed all signals up to 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR.
> 
> I actually prefer this cable to my Celerity cables, mainly because of not needed the external power cords.
> 
> The price for the 30 meter (100 feet) RUIPRO was $229.00 and works flawless. I tried every possible option before switching to the Celerity cables. Prior to the Celerity fiber, no other cables passed 18gpbs sources over long distances. But now the RUIPRO does, and seems to lock onto the signal much faster too.
> 
> I even used them together, the 30 meter RUIPRO from the sources to the AVR, and then the Celerity from the AVR to a Sony 5000ES. Even using them together worked flawless.


You really shined my day. Thanks!!! I guess you're the first person here who really tried a 100ft cable and get positive result. And that was what i waited for - Feedback from at least "1" user experience.

I decided to go with this one and I'll place my order today.




ARROW-AV said:


> Based upon the data that we have so far our recommendation to you would be that you purchase a CELERITY fiber optic HDMI cable  It's not the cheapest, but with the information that we have as of today it is the most reliable with respect to properly delivering 18 Gbps. We hope to discover less expensive options via our evaluation and testing exercise, but if you can't wait then this is what we would recommend that you purchase


I was about to change my choice to Celerity but decision is RUIPRO according to message above. Thanks though for the advises, I'll be still looking forward to see your test conclusion.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> But in your more recent post you also said: [*more reliable*]  (my highlighting) I know you did not mean this, but for those less understanding of these things, I felt it worth saying that no result - even a perfect one, by another cable, is going to statistically prove that it is "more reliable", just that it looks like the design solid and it's a worthy choice. Only more consumer data will show who has the better manufacturing reliability. Hope that's OK.


I think we are both on the same page here, but I think you have somewhat misinterpretted our meaning by taking the words you have highlighted out of context... read the rest of the sentence: 


ARROW-AV said:


> So the fact that one of the CELERITY cables failed is most unexpected, and now raises the interesting possibilty of our discovering HDMI cables which are comparatively not only more economical but also *more reliable, or at the very least as reliable as the CELERITY cables. *.


And we most certainly did and do mean this  

With the utmost respect it most certainly is possible to statically prove that one cable has a high probability of being more reliable than another via testing multiple cables, wherein more data simply increases the accuracy of the indicative probabilty. 

Furthermore, we have already stated that this is only our first round of testing and that in all instances wherein cables fail we will be testing further cables. In our initial round of testing we will have completed testing of 4 number cables of each and every cable. Statistically those that pass testing for all 4 cables have a higher probability of working than those that pass testing for only 1, 2, or 3 cables. Where the more cables that fail the greater the probability that that particular cable is that it will not as reliably deliver in reality 18Gbps bandwidth. The CELERITY cables passed 3 out of 4, but one cable failed the testing. This does mean that there is a slightly lower probability that the CELERITY cables will fully support 18Gbps in all instances as compared with another cable that passes testing for all 4 cables. In order to increase the accuracy of this statistical probability it would be necessary to test a greater quantity of cables, say by increasing the tested sample size to total 10 number cables. 

So, your statement that: *"no result - even a perfect one, by another cable, is going to statistically prove that it is "more reliable""* is quite simply not true. Our testing will most certainly yield indicative probabilities with respect to what is the reliability that the cables tested will actually support 18Gbps bandwidth. Where the accuracy of said indicative probabilities is dependant upon the sample sizes. Where in this instance it is 4 number cables; where whilst we agree that testing a single cable does not provide a probability accuracy that is useful, a sample size of 4 cables does not yield data that is statistically meaningless. 

However, taking everything into consideration, including the overwhelming positive feedback regarding the CELERITY cables, what we will do is source and test a further 6 of each of the CELERITY cables and whichever other cable is seemingly the 'winner' with respect to being the cheapest reliable cable, so as to increase the sample sizes for both to a total of 10 each and thereby increase the reliability probability accuracy by 250%. How does that sound? Would you then consider our test results to be usefully indicative of reliability probability? 
.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Laserion said:


> I was about to change my choice to Celerity but decision is RUIPRO according to message above. Thanks though for the advises, I'll be still looking forward to see your test conclusion.


Given the information kindly posted by Chris regarding the RUIPRO cables we'd say you have made absolutely the right decision. We have not yet completed testing the RUIPRO cables and so could only offer our recommendation accordingly. Please kindly feedback your results with this cable as the more user feedback data the better. Good luck


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> I think we are both on the same page here, but I think you have somewhat misinterpretted our meaning by taking the words you have highlighted out of context... read the rest of the sentence:
> 
> And with the utmost respect it most certainly is possible to statically prove that one cable has a high probability of being more reliable than another via testing multiple cables, wherein more data simply increases the accuracy of the indicative probabilty. Furthermore, we have already stated that this is only our first round of testing and that in all instances wherein cables fail we will be testing further cables. In our initial round of testing we will have completed testing of 4 number cables of each and every cable. Statistically those that pass testing for all 4 cables have a higher probability of working than those that pass testing for only 1, 2, or 3 cables. Where the more cables that fail the greater the probability that that particular cable is will not as reliably deliver in reality 18Gbps bandwidth. The CELERITY cables passed 3 out of 4, but one cable failed the testing. This does mean that there is a slightly lower probability that the CELERITY cables will fully support 18Gbps in all instances as compared with another cable that passes testing for all 4 cables. In order to increase the accuracy of this statistical probability it would be necessary to test a greater quantity of cables, say by increasing the tested sample size to total 10 number cables. Your statement that: *"no result - even a perfect one, by another cable, is going to statistically prove that it is "more reliable""* is quite simply not true. Our testing will most certainly yield indicative probabilities with respect to what is the reliability that the cables tested will actually support 18Gbps bandwidth. Where the accuracy of said indicative probabilities is dependant upon the sample sizes. Where in this instance it is 4 number cables; where whilst we agree that testing a single cable does not provide a probability accuracy that is useful, a sample size of 4 cables does not yield data that is statistically meaningless. However, taking everything into consideration, including the overwhelming positive feedback regarding the CELERITY cables, what we will do is source and test a further 6 of each of the CELERITY cables and whichever other cable is seemingly the 'winner' with respect to being the cheapest reliable cable, so as to increase the sample sizes for both to a total of 10 each and thereby increase the reliability probability accuracy by a further 250%. How does that sound? Would you then consider our test results to be validly indicative of reliability probability? .


Yes, I was getting pedantic  and yes, I think we are in agreement (but to be fair I did quote the context  ). Sorry if I appeared to be bad mouthing your exercise which I think is superb. 

I agree it would be quite possible to give some greater confidence, with more cables tested from different batches and suppliers and, for sure, if 2, 3, 4 cables fail that is certainly an indication of a problem, although even then the manufacturer may have an argument, if they were all part of one troubled batch, for example.

What I meant to say, if not very well, was that the only way to know if a cable that passes 3 out of 4 is better or worse than one that passes 4 out of 4 is either a lot more testing (which is not planned) or knowledge of what is happening out there in the real world. I did think it important that people not familiar with the arcane world of probabilities were reminded of what you did indeed say in your earlier post - that a cable that passes 4 out of 4 times is not necessarily or even probably, more reliable than one that passes 3 out of 4 times. There is simply not enough data there to make that statement.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> Yes, I was getting pedantic  and yes, I think we are in agreement (but to be fair I did quote the context  ). Sorry if I appeared to be bad mouthing your exercise which I think is superb.
> 
> I agree it would be quite possible to give some greater confidence, with more cables tested from different batches and suppliers and, for sure, if 2, 3, 4 cables fail that is certainly an indication of a problem, although even then the manufacturer may have an argument, if they were all part of one troubled batch, for example.
> 
> What I meant to say, if not very well, was that the only way to know if a cable that passes 3 out of 4 is better or worse than one that passes 4 out of 4 is either a lot more testing (which is not planned) or knowledge of what is happening out there in the real world. I did think it important that people not familiar with the arcane world of probabilities were reminded of what you did indeed say in your earlier post - that a cable that passes 4 out of 4 times is not necessarily or even probably, more reliable than one that passes 3 out of 4 times. There is simply not enough data there to make that statement.


Well as long as you are happy, we're happy  But just so you know we will be presenting the data and be letting everyone draw their own conclusions. We will probably make a suggestion regarding our recommended cable of choice but this will be down to both price and reliability probability. Where to be clear this will not mean we are suggesting that this cable is definitively more reliable than everything else but merely that the test results indicate that there is a high probability that it is at least as reliable as the most reliable cables but given it costs less than these it is our recommended cable of choice. Where hopefully we may identify a cable or cables that are at least as reliable as the CELERITY cables but are less expensive. As far as we are concerned if we achieve this then it is mission accomplished. 

It will also be interesting and useful to see what are the trends with respect to the differing technologies, where we expect that passive HDMI cables will fail the most tests, and fiber optic cables will pass the most, but what we are uncertain about which will be interesting to discover is the extent to which active cables and signal boosters succeed in reliably achieving 18Gbps. Where the Gigabit accelerator device for example would be very handy if the results indicate that there is a high probability that you can retrofit it to an existing already installed passive HDMI cable and transform it from failing to support 18Gbps to succeeding in doing so; where this would have the benefit of not having to route a new cable. So it's going to be interesting to see what comes of our evaluation exercise in more ways than one.

Thank you for your input. All feedback is good feedback 
.


----------



## SJHT

I'm working through some cables and my Lumagen Pro (and waiting for the results from this thread). However, I have seen a case where the cable will fire up perfectly at 4K60 12 Bit. However, when playing a movie for two hours, I get like 4 dropouts. Do these cables either work or not, or is it possible that they seem to work, but over a period of time have a few drops? I might have some other issues besides cables that I'm working through, but wondered about this and whether your testing would show this. Maybe these cables are on the border... Thanks. SJ


----------



## jugsta

Hmm. I have sparkles with Celerity 50 Feet... Wondering if I should take a look at this RUIPRO product.


----------



## Otto Pylot

aharami said:


> Yea, it's going to be an in wall installation. I'm only on page 4 of this thread so far and I've only seen some hit/miss posts about the 30ft Cabernet Active cables. I was hoping that QC will be better with the passive cables since they are certified.


If you install in-wall, make sure you use a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. It makes cable installation and replacement so much easier, and you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later as video standards continue to change. The video technology has far outpaced the connection technology. Certification is only a tool to use. It does not guarantee that the cable will perform as expected given your equipment, setup, etc. There are quite a few certification programs available to cable vendors and mfrs but only one is standardized (Premium High Speed HDMI, ATC certified) program so that regardless of the cable mfr/vendor, if you purchase one with the certificate of authenticity you know it was tested with standardized protocols.


----------



## jong1

jugsta said:


> Hmm. I have sparkles with Celerity 50 Feet... Wondering if I should take a look at this RUIPRO product.


What is your source? Have you tested with the same source and a much shorter Premium Certified cable?

I know I've mentioned it before here, maybe a few times (!), but I have an LG E6 and a Celerity cable and I had sparkles routing through my Yamaha 2060 AVR (not direct from source). Yamaha swapped for another 2060 and still sparkles (less of them, but still there). In the end they upgraded to a 3060 for free and the signal is perfect. I'm not saying there is a general problem with the 2060 - you probably haven't got one of those anyway - just saying that 18Gbps is tough and sources can be at fault as well as cables, especially if you have a chain (source -> AVR -> display, source -> video processor -> display etc.). I would definitely test with the same chain and a known good short cable first and/or the celerity with a different source.


----------



## jugsta

jong1 said:


> What is your source? Have you tested with the same source and a much shorter Premium Certified cable?
> 
> I know I've mentioned it before here, maybe a few times (!), but I have an LG E6 and a Celerity cable and I had sparkles routing through my Yamaha 2060 AVR (not direct from source). Yamaha swapped for another 2060 and still sparkles (less of them, but still there). In the end they upgraded to a 3060 for free and the signal is perfect. I'm not saying there is a general problem with the 2060 - you probably haven't got one of those anyway - just saying that 18Gbps is tough and sources can be at fault as well as cables, especially if you have a chain (source -> AVR -> display, source -> video processor -> display etc.). I would definitely test with the same chain and a known good short cable first and/or the celerity with a different source.


I still need to run straight from PS4 Pro to the display. Its somewhat of a mess so I haven't done it yet. Like you experienced, I suspect my receiver is the culprit (or atleast a contributor) to the problem. I have a Pioneer SC-95. I should do that first since Celerity did offer to replace the cable.


----------



## bluechunks

jugsta said:


> I have a Pioneer SC-95.


I feel silly for mentioning this, but just in case, verify that your SC-95's firmware is current.


----------



## Theater123

*HDMI cables*

I am looking to upgrade my HDMI cables. Who makes the best 15m cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Theater123 said:


> I am looking to upgrade my HDMI cables. Who makes the best 15m cable?


Best is a relative term. It all depends on what you are trying to push to 45' - 50'. Your equipment, and how your cable run is setup play a big factor as to what will work. If you want to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz then look to a fiber optic cable such as a Celerity. There are no guarantees regardless of what any cable mfr/reseller states. You just need to use your best judgement and try a few cables until you find one that works for you.


----------



## Ratman

Theater123 said:


> I am looking to upgrade my HDMI cables. Who makes the best 15m cable?


If your current HDMI cables are working fine, why "upgrade"?


----------



## alebonau

aharami said:


> have you or anyone here tried the monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft"?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=21510&seq=1&format=2


I am yet to see any feed back on this thread of this 25 ft cable, not seen any specific feedback from anyone on conditions they have found working or not. Would love to hear...as they are getting closer to the golden 30-32ft (10m) mark  which is what id consider a "long" hdmi cable

wha tis important with this cable is it premium certified. so would expect it to just work...if doesnt would have to question why...and why also the premium certification says its something that should work... I can only presume every cable with a sticker has been tested...in which case should work ... want to know if otherwise :laugh:


----------



## ARROW-AV

SJHT said:


> I'm working through some cables and my Lumagen Pro (and waiting for the results from this thread). However, I have seen a case where the cable will fire up perfectly at 4K60 12 Bit. However, when playing a movie for two hours, I get like 4 dropouts. Do these cables either work or not, or is it possible that they seem to work, but over a period of time have a few drops? I might have some other issues besides cables that I'm working through, but wondered about this and whether your testing would show this. Maybe these cables are on the border... Thanks. SJ


I just got off the phone with Jim at Lumagen and whilst he has said that there have been some issues with respect to using the CELERITY fiber optic cables with the Lumagen Pro, the RUIPRO cables apparently have so far worked perfectly in all instances where the CELERITY cables have failed. So you might want to give the RUIPRO cables a go 
.


----------



## SJHT

ARROW-AV said:


> I just got off the phone with respect a conversation with Jim at Lumagen and whilst he has said that there have been some issues with respect to using the CELERITY fiber optic cables with the Lumagen Pro, the RUIPRO cables apparently have in all instances so far worked perfectly in all instances where the CELERITY cables have failed. So you might want to give the RUIPRO cables a go


Already ordered...


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

Seems like the 15m RUIPRO is out of stock on Amazon until around April 5th. Some of you guys snatched up a few, lol. I guess we'll have to try the DTECHs next.


----------



## SJHT

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Seems like the 15m RUIPRO is out of stock on Amazon until around April 5th. Some of you guys snatched up a few, lol. I guess we'll have to try the DTECHs next.


Sorry, think I got the last one


----------



## Laserion

ARROW-AV said:


> Given the information kindly posted by Chris regarding the RUIPRO cables we'd say you have made absolutely the right decision. We have not yet completed testing the RUIPRO cables and so could only offer our recommendation accordingly. Please kindly feedback your results with this cable as the more user feedback data the better. Good luck


Yes, I hope that i made the right decision. Of course, I'll write here right after i installed the cable.

If the result gets ok, we can say that RUIPRO is a really trustable product.


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ccool96 said:


> I bought the 30 meter RUIPRO fiber on Amazon and tested it tonight. It worked great. Passed all signals up to 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12 bit HDR.


Did you get a chance to test the ARC function? I mainly use streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon, and Youtube from my TV instead of a streaming device like Roku.


----------



## ccool96

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> Did you get a chance to test the ARC function? I mainly use streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon, and Youtube from my TV instead of a streaming device like Roku.




I did not, because all my long cables are used with my Sony 5000ES, JVC RS4500, and JVC RS600, so none of these have any built in apps to test ARC with. Sorry I can't help more in that regard. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

ccool96 said:


> I did not, because all my long cables are used with my Sony 5000ES, JVC RS4500, and JVC RS600, so none of these have any built in apps to test ARC with. Sorry I can't help more in that regard.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


No problem. It'll give me an excuse to guy a Roku Ultra, which I kind of want, anyway.


----------



## VidPro

I'm in need of a solution, new 4K TV and an HDMI cable that barely got me going. 

I don't mind spending the extra for the 100ft Ruipro cable. I only need 35ft or so where I live now, but when we move having the extra length might come in handy. Will I run into an issue having all that extra cable loosely coiled?


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Having it coiled shouldn't be an issue. I'd just zip tie it and hand it behind your gear.


----------



## VidPro

Great and thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

VidPro said:


> I'm in need of a solution, new 4K TV and an HDMI cable that barely got me going.
> 
> I don't mind spending the extra for the 100ft Ruipro cable. I only need 35ft or so where I live now, but when we move having the extra length might come in handy. Will I run into an issue having all that extra cable loosely coiled?


Coiling like it Dave suggested won't be a problem. What may be a problem is the 100' length. All you can do is try. It's always best to use the minimum length that you can, especially for the higher video standards.


----------



## VidPro

Yeah I'll give it a shot. I'll post Tuesday night what happens.


----------



## VidPro

Decided to order a 50ft DTech too. I'll have both Tuesday. I'll try the 50ft first. If that works I'll return the 100ft.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Shorter is definitely better.


----------



## VidPro

So this cable will eventually be run through a small amount of wall to get to the TV, but it'll still be a pain. How long should I test before I give it the OK? The reason I ask, is that my in-wall old cable that I'm replacing was fine with 1080 and worked for several days and then went wonky with Direct TV audio. Very bizarre.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

I'd test if for a variety of scenarios. Also, be VERY careful when pulling it through walls because if you pull too hard, you can damage the interior of the cable. That's where most people fail.


----------



## VidPro

Ok thanks again. I'll be carefully pulling the cable if it turns out to be a winner.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I second what Dave said. That's one of the biggest disadvantages of installing HDMI cable in-wall is the pulling of the cable thru, usually by the connector ends. What some have done is either install solid core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS and NOT a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminating it with some sort of active termination like HDBT. As the newer chipsets become available, you can easily upgrade the termination end without disturbing the in-wall cable. I believe the Celerity fiber optic cable is similar in that you can upgrade the termination point, which is outside the wall.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

The other key to pulling the cable is to tape it at multiple points to not just pull at one point on the cable. You have to space these properly though to ensure that it can still turn corners. Wire "lube" is also good to use (although messy), because it really cuts down on the friction.


----------



## SJHT

I have now tried the Ethereal accelerator combo and the 15m RUIPRO. Both startup great, but then drop video and have issues between my Lumagen Pro and JVC RS600. Wonder what works??" SJ


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ have you looked at Celerity cables?


----------



## SJHT

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ have you looked at Celerity cables?


Probably next, but I'm going to wait until the testing is done as Lumagen has had customers with issues with that cable. I'm going to do some more testing with these cables, but crazy.... SJ


----------



## BrolicBeast

SJHT said:


> Probably next, but I'm going to wait until the testing is done as Lumagen has had customers with issues with that cable. I'm going to do some more testing with these cables, but crazy.... SJ




Yeah--I'm one of them. Celerity works well direct from source (when source is set to always output [email protected], but doesn't jive well with the Lumagen 18Ghz output. I suspect your experiment of placing Lumagen close to the source will be successful, as I know of another user who has experienced success on this front. I'm hoping my Ethereal solution is effective with the 18Ghz outputs. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## SJHT

BrolicBeast said:


> Yeah--I'm one of them. Celerity works well direct from source (when source is set to always output [email protected], but doesn't jive well with the Lumagen 18Ghz output. I suspect your experiment of placing Lumagen close to the source will be successful, as I know of another user who has experienced success on this front. I'm hoping my Ethereal solution is effective with the 18Ghz outputs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Ethereal solution didn't work for my setup.... SJ


----------



## WhosUrBud

Has anyone here had success with 25ft Blue Jeans Cable? I am debating between that or Ruipro 10m fiber.


----------



## VidPro

So I just tested the Ruipro 100ft and DTech 50ft. 

The DTech first. Powered up and the Oppo spooled up Deadpool. The little HDR logo popped up and I thought great. Then it lost signal several times. Just dropped out several times and that was it, back in the box. 

Ruipro Next. Same thing. 

Both going back tomorrow. Bummer.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I may have to retest the cables before I send them back. My Oppo is connected to my Denon X4300 with a new HDMI cable. Maybe that cable is failing. Hmm...


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Try going direct from the player first to eliminate the AVR variable.


----------



## VidPro

Dave Vaughn said:


> Try going direct from the player first to eliminate the AVR variable.


I'll try that next. Although if there is success eliminating the Denon, I'll be at a loss as to what to do.


----------



## Kazz063

Well it looks like my 12m Celerity cable is failing, while I was able to watch a movie I can't get the Oppo home screen without the picture dropping in and out, so it looks like I'm going to need to get the cable replaced.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE:* Hi folks, so we just returned from CinemaCon and ended up spending a couple more days at the show further than intended. Also, further to this it has taken quite a while to complete all the steps involved regarding setting up a trade account and sourcing the Metra Ethereal Gigabit Accelerator and Velox cables, which we have just been informed will be dispatched to us on Monday. So we must apologise that this means our completing and publishing our HDMI test report will take a few days longer than forecast. So if everyone can please kindly be patient to wait just a little bit longer that would be greatly appreciated. Completing this is now number one top priority above everything else. Also, since we have noted that the Ethereal products have been recently discussed please note that we will be testing all respective cables in their own right but also with the Metra Ethereal Gigabit Accelerator (where applicable); where we are expecting that this will highlight which cable(s) perform best in conjunction with the Metra Ethereal Gigabit Accelerator, in other words which is the winning combination. It won't be long now. Thank you for your patience and understanding


----------



## Otto Pylot

So is Metra Ethereal and Velox cables your product?

That question was directed to ARROW-AV in case there's confusion.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> So is Metra Ethereal and Velox cables your product?
> 
> That question was directed to ARROW-AV in case there's confusion.


No. It is not. We don't have any products. We are completely impartial and unbiased with respect to absolutely everything.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^ That's good to hear. We've had other "independents" here making claims only to sell their product and have it come up short when the posters here began to purchase the cables. Looking forward to your results.


----------



## cj_offshore

alebonau said:


> I am yet to see any feed back on this thread of this 25 ft cable, not seen any specific feedback from anyone on conditions they have found working or not. Would love to hear...as they are getting closer to the golden 30-32ft (10m) mark  which is what id consider a "long" hdmi cable
> 
> wha tis important with this cable is it premium certified. so would expect it to just work...if doesnt would have to question why...and why also the premium certification says its something that should work... I can only presume every cable with a sticker has been tested...in which case should work ... want to know if otherwise :laugh:


I have used the 25' Monoprice certified cable successfully with one source (Oppo) but not another (Roku Premiere+). It appears that a critical variable may be the source device itself. I'm surprised that I don't see more comments about that on this forum. Monoprice is not lying when they say that these cables can support the 18 gbps requirement but the source signal may be too weak. Is there a standard for the source signal (voltage, etc.) that must be met? The Oppo works with flying colors all the way through 17.8 Gbps sending a signal through the AVR (Yamaha a3050, 3 ft cable) to a JVC RS400 (25 ft cable). However, the same cables used to do the equivalent for the Roku only works if there is a direct connect from the Roku to the projector. When you introduce the Yamaha into the equation, HDR signals begin failing either outright from the beginning or after just a few minutes. I have seen other people use "better" fiber optic cables (e.g. Celerity) and have success. This suggests that the Roku is not providing equivalent signal strength as the Oppo (perhaps not surprising considering it's a $100 vs. a $550 high end device). Working with Roku tech support they concluded that the Roku and the Yamaha were not compatible. I'm not so sure. I think the weakness may be more about the Roku output signal. Should we be more critical about evaluating the quality of the source device outputs and not just blaming the cables? Is anyone else thinking this way too or am I off base? At this point I'm hesitant to spend $200 on a cable to make up for the apparent weakness of a $100 device. I'm hoping Oppo will deliver a firmware upgrade for the HDMI input to handle HDR so I can use the Oppo to deliver a better quality signal to the AVR/Projector in place of the Roku doing it directly.


----------



## Ratman

cj_offshore said:


> It appears that a critical variable may be the source device itself. I'm surprised that I don't see more comments about that on this forum.


It's been noted and commented on many times.


----------



## mikela

cj_offshore said:


> It appears that a critical variable may be the source device itself. I'm surprised that I don't see more comments about that on this forum.


I agree that there should be more focus on this.


----------



## Rudy1

Has anyone tried the SlimRun HDR from Monoprice?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566&cl=res&utm_source=170404_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=slimrun_hdr_textlink&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables


----------



## SJHT

Looks like those are new from monoprice. SJ


----------



## bluechunks

Rudy1 said:


> Has anyone tried the SlimRun HDR from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566&cl=res&utm_source=170404_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=slimrun_hdr_textlink&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables





SJHT said:


> Looks like those are new from monoprice. SJ


Very intriguing.....


----------



## ARROW-AV

Rudy1 said:


> Has anyone tried the SlimRun HDR from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566&cl=res&utm_source=170404_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=slimrun_hdr_textlink&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables


YES  These will be in our upcoming report


----------



## alebonau

Rudy1 said:


> Has anyone tried the SlimRun HDR from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566&cl=res&utm_source=170404_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=slimrun_hdr_textlink&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables


oh now why did they pull it up at 30ft, rather than 32 ft 10m ! grrrr !


----------



## VidPro

Ok so I'm trying the DTech 16M directly from the Oppo 203 as I type this post and so far so good. Watching the UHD of Deadpool and once during startup the screen blanked but I was also playing around in the C7 pictures settings. Since then a solid image. I'll keep testing today it today. 

Now the big question, what do I do to make this work through my weeks old Denon X4300? 

Of course I'll check my cables from their source players too. Brand new Sanus 8ft cables.


----------



## Laserion

*RUIPRO 30m (100 feet) perfect with 4K60hz 4:4:4*

After a long time with searching and investigating, I'd like to say that I succeeded getting 4K-60hz-4:4:4
with a long cable. My cable has arrived from US and works perfectly. 

It's RUIPRO 30m Fiber optical.

I'm using a JVC RS400 projector and Pioneer SC-LX59 AVR and Nvidia Shield Tv.

At first shot i glady notice Nvidia started with 4K60hz. But then i see there was only YCbCr 4:2:0 8 bit rec 709 option in "Advanced settings / Color Space" section. Next day i made some research for Pioneer LX59 manual book and saw that some setting must be switched for 4:4:4. 

After i made this everything was perfect as you can see below.

I should also say that i didn't get even one single drop. Cable seems solid rock!!!










Thanks to people here in this topic who helped and wrote their experiences. It really helped.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Congrats!


----------



## VidPro

So a direct feed to my TV from the Oppo with the DTech 50ft optical ran all day without issue. Now I know the cable is fine. The work is finding the week link in the chain. I'm hoping the AVR has a setting I'm missing.


----------



## Laserion

VidPro said:


> So a direct feed to my TV from the Oppo with the DTech 50ft optical ran all day without issue. Now I know the cable is fine. The work is finding the week link in the chain. I'm hoping the AVR has a setting I'm missing.


I'm not sure it's related to your problem but i needed to make some setting with my Pio AVR for everything to work correct. I noticed this by checking manual. Here you can see below. Maybe it can give you some idea.


----------



## VidPro

Thanks for the info. I'll dig into X4300 manual today. I'm hoping to run this cable this Saturday.


----------



## fizban11

*Finally!*

After two Sammy firmware updates and one firmware update on the AV8802A a little while back, I am happy to report success with an Active Optical Cable (AOC) from MyCableMart #: SA-SHDC-8700-10, 10M cable. The pathway and equipment are below. On a side note, I have abandoned the usage of my Roku Ultra for now. I experienced too many little stability issues. Those may have changed now with a cable that seems to work. Maybe I'll try it again and see. Also, with PLEX on the NVShield Pro running better than I could have anticipated, I have also pulled the Popcorn Hour VTEN-U.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the 10M cable I received is different than the picture - no USB dongle attached at all. After speaking with tech support @ MyCableMart, I found out that the chip in the HDMI connectors was recently upgraded (again) which allowed for it to no longer need the USB dongle. Tech said that they needed to update the picture on the website. I do not know if all lengths are the same, but for the 10M cable, expect no dongle attached. Also, the title and features section of this cable states support for 22Gbps, but the paragraph description shows 18Gbps. I'm not sure if this is just sloppy website upkeep.

*Pathway & Equipment:*
4K/59.940 (recommended resolution) - 12-bit 4:2:2/10-bit 4:2:0 Rec.2020 (HDR) without any errors.
NVShield Pro - 3ft MP Certified HDMI - AV8802A Pre-Pro - MyCableMart AOC - Sammy UN65JS9500 (2015 - UHD On, no PC mode.)
AV8802A is set to "Conversion Off" for this HDMI input, so native resolution pass-through for the NVShield Pro.

Additionally, built-in AV8802A menu's for built-in (non-HDMI plug-in) sources are running with conversion ON, set to 4K (50/60) and are displaying just fine on the TV. Previously, my old cable would not allow for any video for this. When trouble-shooting many months ago with Marantz, this is what they had me do to ID a cable issue.


----------



## ScottSFA

If I'm looking to do a 40 foot run, what would you recommend? The 15m RUIPRO?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Try it. There is no guarantee that a specific cable that works for one person will work for you and your setup. It's still all trial and error. Just pay attention to the return policy and thoroughly test it before you install. At 40' I would assume you have an in-wall installation?


----------



## ScottSFA

Otto Pylot said:


> Try it. There is no guarantee that a specific cable that works for one person will work for you and your setup. It's still all trial and error. Just pay attention to the return policy and thoroughly test it before you install. At 40' I would assume you have an in-wall installation?


That's correct. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottSFA said:


> That's correct.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


....and you've used conduit?


----------



## ScottSFA

Otto Pylot said:


> ....and you've used conduit?


Yep....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottSFA said:


> Yep....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Excellent! Then you are as "future proofed" as you can be


----------



## Ratman

Use "conduit" to turn cable management into can-do-it! 
:grin:


----------



## Laserion

ScottSFA said:


> If I'm looking to do a 40 foot run, what would you recommend? The 15m RUIPRO?


15m RUIPRO should be fine. 

30m worked great in my system for 4k-60hz-4:4:4


----------



## Kyle_Gates

Laserion said:


> 15m RUIPRO should be fine.
> 
> 30m worked great in my system for 4k-60hz-4:4:4


I am now using a few of the 15m Ruipro's and they work VERY well


----------



## Otto Pylot

Good to know.


----------



## fxe2

I have found a cable that works.Metra Cable .THey designed the system for my home theater build.I buried a 35 foot cable in the walls.Behind the tv, i plugged in their gigabit accelerator.This has to be plugged into a apple wall wart for power.the buried cable was 10 gbit. I then attached a 1 meter 18 gbit cable and plugged it to the tv.The system is perfect.
The designer , Brent was fantastic to deal with and the company goes out of their way to help !
The real benefit of this system is that when things go to 8k, you merely replace the accelerator with a new one.


----------



## jong1

fxe2 said:


> I have found a cable that works.Metra Cable .THey designed the system for my home theater build.I buried a 35 foot cable in the walls.Behind the tv, i plugged in their gigabit accelerator.This has to be plugged into a apple wall wart for power.the buried cable was 10 gbit. I then attached a 1 meter 18 gbit cable and plugged it to the tv.The system is perfect.
> The designer , Brent was fantastic to deal with and the company goes out of their way to help !
> The real benefit of this system is that when things go to 8k, you merely replace the accelerator with a new one.


I'm glad it has worked for you, although I hope you have read around this subject carefully and are _sure_ you have tested at 18Gbps. Most 4K modes, including HDR, do not test full 18Gbps.

However, I would not be too hopeful of your cable working for "8K". HDMI 2.1, which includes 8K, goes up to 48Gbps. I am very doubtful any 10Gbps electrical cable would be capable of such a step up, despite any fancy new "accelerator".


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. I agree with Jong1. The cable setup mentioned above may work now but it is doubtful that it will work for HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps). Hopefully the installer had enough foresight to install your in-wall cable in a conduit because you will eventually be swapping out that cable.


----------



## fxe2

I installed it , and did not run it in conduit.
Will see if its an issue and time goes on.
The current set up is flawless!


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ Good luck. 48Gbps at 38' is going to be near impossible being as the current specs for the 48Gbps are limited to about 6'. And that's with an uninterrupted connection.


----------



## Joe Fernand

As above hopefully you don't run into problems but don't be fooled by talk of '18Gbps' cables - there is no way at present to know how your system will react when/if you upgrade to 8K.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VidPro

Just to update, the DTech is finally in wall and connected to my Denon X4300. Working great for hours now.


----------



## scarabaeus

Kyle_Gates said:


> I am now using a few of the 15m Ruipro's and they work VERY well


Availablity seems to be iffy. Amazon had it at first, then the listing for the 15 m (50 ft) vanished and was redirected to the 100 ft version. Then the listing appeared again, but backordered.

I ordered one anyways, and today Amazon cancelled my order due to non-availability, and the listing is gone again.

I then discovered ruipro.com, where one can order from the manufacturer in China directly. Very strange website, lots of unfinished areas and some leftovers from the default pages of the shopping code, apparently.

Still managed to put in an order, $169 plus $5 shipping, about the same as it was on Amazon. When I was through, I thought "Where do I put my payment info?", it never asked me. Then I noticed this was C.O.D... And my order number was a single digit... 

Let's see how that goes. Hope I don't get a bag of bricks.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

Indeed, that ......does sound a bit dicey. All I can say though is that I am MORE than satisfied with their cables so far! I wish you luck!


----------



## Melgon

*Have tested both Celerity and Monoprice HDMI cable*

I am feeding a number of UHD sources through a Denon AVR-X7200WA receiver (OPPO UDP-203, Roku Premiere+, Amazon Fire TV, Dune HD Solo 4K, Chromecast Ultra and Zappiti Mini 4K HDR) into a Sony VPL-VW675ES projector. All of the sources are connected to the Denon with 18.2 Gbps rated certified HDMI cables.

I initially bought the 35 foot Celerity Fiber Optic cable. With the first Celerity cable I installed, the image would keep dropping in and out, even at a lower bandwidth signal source setting (e.g. 4:2:2, 10-bit, 24 Hz).
My distributor replaced the Celerity cable. The 2nd cable worked better and the image remained stable as long as the image source parameters remained the same. Switching the source from e.g. UHD 4:4:4 12-bit 60 Hz to 1080p worked fine, but the handshake would take up to 30 seconds. Switching back to UHD would sometimes result in a 2nd (ghost) image. Unplugging the cable from the Denon AV receiver and plugging it back in would resolve the issue. The handshake would take so long that when I started play a UHD Blu-Ray movie, I could immediately hear sound but it would take 20 to 30 seconds to see picture. When stopping playback, the projector would sometimes remain stuck in HDR mode instead of switching back to Gamma.
I have tried switching the Celerity cable transmitter plug between the HDMI output of the AV receiver and the HDMI output of the OPPO player but the instabilities remained the same. I took the Celerity cable to a friend's house and connected his OPPO UDP-203 directly to his LG OLED 4K TV - handshake would take "forever" as well.
As a last resort, Celerity sent me a new transmitter/receiver pair but I was back to square one - the image would continuously drop in and out just like the original setup.
Weird.

As an experiment I moved the UDP-203 closer to the projector and connected it with a 3 meter 18.2 Gbps rated/certified cable.
Amazing result - switching resolutions on the OPPO resulted in near-immediate handshake. Rock-solid image, no drop-outs. When playing UHD Blu-Ray discs, I could see the studio logo trailers (e.g. Universal) for the first time - before doing this experiment, the trailers remained "invisible" due to the long handshake time.
I was able to temporarily install another 18.2 Gbps cable (stretched and hanging mid-air ;-) between the output of the AV receiver and the projector.
The handshake time slightly increased (3 to 5 seconds - expected through the AV receiver) but otherwise rock solid.
Checked all my other sources (played with different resolutions and bandwidths) - no problems.

As some guys here on the forum recommended the active Monoprice cable, I decide to give the 30 foot Monoprice "Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable" a try (Monoprice is out of stock on the 35 ft cable) and IT WORKED.
Tried feeding it directly from the OPPO and then from Denon AVR-X7200WA - same result as using the 3 meter cable in my previous experiment.
I have been using the active Monoprice cable for a week now - so far so good.
I will order the 35 foot cable when it is back in stock.

For those who have bought active cables like this one from Monoprice before, how well does it perform over time? Any known issues/failures of the active circuitry?
Thank you.


----------



## ykjones

In a emergency and ordered Celerity's 40ft Optical HDMI cable that is "supposed" to support all specs for 4K, 4:4, HDR, 18Gbs, etc to replace my Audioquest Pearl. Crossing my fingers it works as planned. Installers will be back Fri to pull the old cable and run the Celerity cable. Wish me luck!


----------



## Otto Pylot

ykjones said:


> In a emergency and ordered Celerity's 40ft Optical HDMI cable that is "supposed" to support all specs for 4K, 4:4, HDR, 18Gbs, etc to replace my Audioquest Pearl. Crossing my fingers it works as planned. Installers will be back Fri to pull the old cable and run the Celerity cable. Wish me luck!


You're posting the same thing to two different threads. To keep the responses coherent, and to make it easier to search, please keep your posts to one thread. At 40', are you running your cable in a conduit because you should be.


----------



## Kazz063

Melgon said:


> I initially bought the 35 foot Celerity Fiber Optic cable. With the first Celerity cable I installed, the image would keep dropping in and out, even at a lower bandwidth signal source setting (e.g. 4:2:2, 10-bit, 24 Hz).
> 
> I have tried switching the Celerity cable transmitter plug between the HDMI output of the AV receiver and the HDMI output of the OPPO player but the instabilities remained the same. I took the Celerity cable to a friend's house and connected his OPPO UDP-203 directly to his LG OLED 4K TV - handshake would take "forever" as well.
> As a last resort, Celerity sent me a new transmitter/receiver pair but I was back to square one - the image would continuously drop in and out just like the original setup.
> Weird.
> 
> 
> As some guys here on the forum recommended the active Monoprice cable, I decide to give the 30 foot Monoprice "Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable" a try (Monoprice is out of stock on the 35 ft cable) and IT WORKED.
> Tried feeding it directly from the OPPO and then from Denon AVR-X7200WA - same result as using the 3 meter cable in my previous experiment.
> I have been using the active Monoprice cable for a week now - so far so good.
> I will order the 35 foot cable when it is back in stock.
> 
> For those who have bought active cables like this one from Monoprice before, how well does it perform over time? Any known issues/failures of the active circuitry?
> Thank you.


I have just returned a Celerity 40' cable as I had the same problem of the image dropping in and out, although it worked for a month before this issue arose, even playing Billy Lynn's at full bandwidth with no issues. I fired up the system one night and couldn't get the Oppo menu to stay up and changing resolution caused more issues. So after a couple of weeks of stuffing around with the distributor here (Aus) the store I bought it from is refunding me and will finish dealing with the distributor.
So now I'm looking for something else, unfortunately.


----------



## mikela

@ARROW-AV how far away are we from that upcoming report?


----------



## Kazz063

mikela said:


> @ARROW-AV how far away are we from that upcoming report?


Yes, I'm now hanging for that as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keep in mind that ARROW-AV will be a recommendation based on their testing methods. It is not a 100% guarantee.


----------



## Kazz063

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that ARROW-AV will be a recommendation based on their testing methods. It is not a 100% guarantee.


Yes true but I'll still be interested to see their results, I know that every system is different and that's the problem with this whole exercise.


----------



## mikela

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that ARROW-AV will be a recommendation based on their testing methods. It is not a 100% guarantee.


Yup. Waiting to see what 15M cable will work between a Lumagen and an RS600 but this will be a good starting point.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ 45' is going to be tough for any copper-based cable. I think FO will be the cable of choice, for now, until HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild and available. Then we'll start this all over again.


----------



## jong1

Can't see how anything but integrated fiber optic is going to be possible for HDMI 2.1 > 1 or 2M, but we'll see I guess!


----------



## cannga

Just want to add to the data base: Neither of these 2 cables works for my system - Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector.

*Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29.
*Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* Not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. This is my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.

I have read on here that Blue Jeans Series 1 at 30 ft doesn't work reliably either, so am ordering the 25 ft version that is certified to work. It seems 25 ft is the cutoff for copper based HDMI cable. Will report when the Blue Jeans Series 1 is here.


----------



## eNoize

^^ That is surprising to hear. Blue Jeans Series 1 at 35ft (10m aprox) works perfect in my system: OPPO 203 > JVC RS620 in [email protected] 4:4:4 chroma sampling.


----------



## Otto Pylot

cannga said:


> Just want to add to the data base: Neither of these 2 cables works for my system - Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector.
> 
> *Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29.
> *Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* Not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. This is my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.
> 
> I have read on here that Blue Jeans Series 1 at 30 ft doesn't work reliably either, so am ordering the 25 ft version that is certified to work. It seems 25 ft is the cutoff for copper based HDMI cable. Will report when the Blue Jeans Series 1 is here.


25' is the maximum certifiable length for HDMI 1.4/2.0 hardware for 1080p (and possibly 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz under certain instances). Any certification claims above 25' for the higher video standards should be taken with a grain of salt for ALL copper based cables and possibly some FO cables as well. Most people start having issues at about 20' or longer for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. There are no guarantees because some have had good luck at longer lengths with the higher video standards. It all depends, in part, if all of your connected HDMI hardware have the same HDMI chipsets, how the cable run is setup (bend radius, etc), and wire gauge. If you want to run an HDMI cable in-wall I'd suggest, at the very least, you run it in a conduit (because you will be swapping out the cable again in the future), be very mindful of the bend radius, and look into something like a FO cable (Celerity). In fact, the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling is to run in-conduit.


----------



## cannga

eNoize said:


> ^^ That is surprising to hear. Blue Jeans Series 1 at 35ft (10m aprox) works perfect in my system: OPPO 203 > JVC RS620 in [email protected] 4:4:4 chroma sampling.


Thanks for this very helpful feedback. 35 ft is the length I REALLY want (don't really know how long my in wall Series 1 is, think it's at least 40). Would be incredible if it works in my system.

They have a good return policy so I am going to order a 35 ft Series 1 to try also. New cable would not be pulled through wall so bend radius not an issue - fingers crossed and will report.

Thanks all for the helpful replies.


----------



## eNoize

There is very little bending in my system as well and so far, no issues. And yes, they have an excellent return policy. Best of luck, but Otto mentioned, a fiber optic might end up the best option in your situation.


----------



## alebonau

cannga said:


> Just want to add to the data base: Neither of these 2 cables works for my system - Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector.
> 
> *Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29.
> *Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* Not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. This is my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.
> 
> I have read on here that Blue Jeans Series 1 at 30 ft doesn't work reliably either, so am ordering the 25 ft version that is certified to work. It seems 25 ft is the cutoff for copper based HDMI cable. Will report when the Blue Jeans Series 1 is here.


if that mono price 25ft premium certified cable is indeed one am thinking off, i have to ask why it doesnt work ??

an just the oppo 203 straight to he jvc rs500. why not ? doesnt leave a lot of confidence quite frankly with premium certified cables if thats the case ! certainly mono price. can you link to the cable in question please. or perhaps this is some eBay fake or something ? there are a lot of fake cables etc on eBay. does t have the premium certified sticker ? though i guess that is easily faked if theyre going to so much trouble with a cable and gee many of these pirates seem to go through a heck of a lot of trouble !


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> if that mono price 25ft premium certified cable is indeed one am thinking off, i have to ask why it doesnt work ??
> 
> an just the oppo 203 straight to he jvc rs500. why not ? doesnt leave a lot of confidence quite frankly with premium certified cables if thats the case ! certainly mono price. can you link to the cable in question please. or perhaps this is some eBay fake or something ? there are a lot of fake cables etc on eBay. does t have the premium certified sticker ? though i guess that is easily faked if theyre going to so much trouble with a cable and gee many of these pirates seem to go through a heck of a lot of trouble !


A Premium High Speed HDMI cable will come with a scannable, counterfeit proof, label of authenticity.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> A Premium High Speed HDMI cable will come with a scannable, counterfeit proof, label of authenticity.


yes I know... however as we also know when counterfeiters go to the trouble of faking a cable a label is hardly a stumbling block. something senheiser found with the replica headphones with sennheiser anti counterfeit label attached. infact at one point there was even someone selling the labels on web  focal are another company that found this out the hard way and now do not recommend buying any of their product off the net, particularly eBay.


----------



## cannga

alebonau said:


> if that mono price 25ft premium certified cable is indeed one am thinking off, i have to ask why it doesnt work ??
> 
> an just the oppo 203 straight to he jvc rs500. why not ? doesnt leave a lot of confidence quite frankly with premium certified cables if thats the case ! certainly mono price. can you link to the cable in question please. or perhaps this is some eBay fake or something ? there are a lot of fake cables etc on eBay. does t have the premium certified sticker ? though i guess that is easily faked if theyre going to so much trouble with a cable and gee many of these pirates seem to go through a heck of a lot of trouble !


It *is* from ebay, but shipped from Monoprice Headquarter in Rancho Cucamonga so I don't think the criminals could plant a mole that deep. 

This is the ebay link - hope I didn't make a mistake (?): http://www.ebay.com/itm/371876124076?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT 

I should emphasize this is merely my personal experience; indeed I don't mean to imply that this cable doesn't work for other situations.


----------



## alebonau

cannga said:


> It *is* from ebay, but shipped from Monoprice Headquarter in Rancho Cucamonga so I don't think the criminals could plant a mole that deep.
> 
> This is the ebay link - hope I didn't make a mistake (?): http://www.ebay.com/itm/371876124076?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> I should emphasize this is merely my personal experience; indeed I don't mean to imply that this cable doesn't work for other situations.


that appears to be the mono price eBay shop. and coming from mono price i think you would be pretty safe you have the genuine article I would suggest. I had to check though to eliminate as we do know the number of fake things being sold on eBay.

I appreciate you did post as you did. as it does indeed re enforce that there are no guarantees even using a premium certified cables and you are quite right it is a equipment combination and specific cable used thing. as disappointing it might be that in this case even a premium certified cable seems to have not been able to be used in this case.

I dont know what to suggest quite frankly apart from some other cable. one amongst the others that have proven them selves to work in a similar equipment combination to yours.

another thing to check though is perhaps its a mono price QC thing ? quite possible the one you received is indeed faulty for some reason. that wouldn't be first. perhaps worth returning to mono price to get another ?


----------



## Marc Drake

scarabaeus said:


> Availablity seems to be iffy. Amazon had it at first, then the listing for the 15 m (50 ft) vanished and was redirected to the 100 ft version. Then the listing appeared again, but backordered.
> 
> I ordered one anyways, and today Amazon cancelled my order due to non-availability, and the listing is gone again.
> 
> I then discovered ruipro.com, where one can order from the manufacturer in China directly. Very strange website, lots of unfinished areas and some leftovers from the default pages of the shopping code, apparently.
> 
> Still managed to put in an order, $169 plus $5 shipping, about the same as it was on Amazon. When I was through, I thought "Where do I put my payment info?", it never asked me. Then I noticed this was C.O.D... And my order number was a single digit...
> 
> Let's see how that goes. Hope I don't get a bag of bricks.


They will not send COD to you. You need to email them so they can give you their PP info..


----------



## scarabaeus

Marc Drake said:


> They will not send COD to you. You need to email them so they can give you their PP info..


Indeed. I did contact them, and apparently I stumbled onto a constuction site and fell into an open pit. This website, ruipro.com, is from the same vendor that runs the Amazon shop (IAVPRO), and they are in the process of building it as a brand website.

They were very helpful and provided a paypal address. The cable is now on the way via DHL directly from Hong Kong. I'll let you know the final verdict when it arrives this week.

The CS lady also mentioned that the other lengths of their cable are on the way to Amazon distribution, and should re-appear soon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> yes I know... however as we also know when counterfeiters go to the trouble of faking a cable a label is hardly a stumbling block. something senheiser found with the replica headphones with sennheiser anti counterfeit label attached. infact at one point there was even someone selling the labels on web  focal are another company that found this out the hard way and now do not recommend buying any of their product off the net, particularly eBay.


I haven't heard of anyone counterfeiting the ATC label, yet. But it is possible I suppose. As to eBay, I would never buy anything off of eBay as far as electronics go.


----------



## Cain

Did Arrow-AV ever publish that comparison that was comping out on March 31?? I can't seem to find it. 

Thx!!


----------



## G-Rex

I don't believe so, but I am really looking forward to it. Arrow, do you have an updated ETA?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Cain said:


> Did Arrow-AV ever publish that comparison that was comping out on March 31?? I can't seem to find it.
> 
> Thx!!


Patience Grasshopper, patience.


----------



## jrlnc

Otto Pylot said:


> Patience Grasshopper, patience.


I'm all for patience and waiting for Arrow-AV's report, but it has been a while (~1 month) since he said it would be available. 

It's obviously a more detailed and/or difficult process than he expected. I don't fault him at all for it. It will be a great service to everyone when available. And it should be made a sticky reference thread under the HDMI Q&A forum.

Having said that, some of us *can't* wait and need to find solutions. I personally was in the situation with a brand new JVC 520 a month ago and had to flail around testing 5 other (35') cables before I got something that worked. 

I ended up using a 35' Celerity fiber optic. And -yes- it seems to be true that there are more than 1 version of the Celerity cable out there, because the first one I tried only appeared to support 10 GBPS.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ so far the best luck has been with Celerity cables for runs longer than about 20' - 25'. However, there are still the older Celerity cables out in the wild that are 10.2Gbps and not the supposed 18Gbps ones. You have to be careful on where and who you buy the cable from and carefully read the packaging to see which cable you have.


----------



## jimshowalter

Otto Pylot said:


> You're posting the same thing to two different threads. To keep the responses coherent, and to make it easier to search, please keep your posts to one thread. At 40', are you running your cable in a conduit because you should be.


Why conduit for an optical cable? It doesn't need EMI shielding.


----------



## jimshowalter

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ so far the best luck has been with Celerity cables for runs longer than about 20' - 25'. However, there are still the older Celerity cables out in the wild that are 10.2Gbps and not the supposed 18Gbps ones. You have to be careful on where and who you buy the cable from and carefully read the packaging to see which cable you have.


You can eliminate that problem by buying from Celerity directly.

Their technical support is quite good too. I had a question on a Saturday night and an engineer emailed me back right away.

I asked them how the company is doing, and they said 4K has been a blessing. People's 1080p setups with long HDMI cables just plain fail on UHD, and they eventually find their way to Celerity.


----------



## jong1

jimshowalter said:


> Why conduit for an optical cable? It doesn't need EMI shielding.


It's so you can always swap the cable out if/when you need to without pulling the wall apart. For instance, no cable manufacturer, even optical, is promising to upgrade the transceivers for HDMI 2.1, whilst using the existing cable. It might happen, but quite possibly will not.


----------



## jimshowalter

jong1 said:


> It's so you can always swap the cable out if/when you need to without pulling the wall apart. For instance, no cable manufacturer, even optical, is promising to upgrade the transceivers for HDMI 2.1, whilst using the existing cable. It might happen, but quite possibly will not.


I may have mixed up discussions. My post about Celerity cables was to try to help the guy who can't replace an HDMI cable between projector and display because it's fished through a wall. A Celerity is teeny and flexible, plus it supports full 18Gb/sec, and might be a way to fix the problem. But in that context, conduit is out of the question.

(All of our cables are in conduit.)


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimshowalter said:


> Why conduit for an optical cable? It doesn't need EMI shielding.


Running conduit (smurf tube) for cabling has nothing to do with EMI protection. The idea of running 1.5" - 2.0" flexible tube is so that one can easily snake their cabling be it an HDMI cable, FO cable, solid core CAT-6, or what ever from point A to point B. This is the only way to "future proof" your HTS cabling because video standards are far outpacing the connection standards and one will more than likely be needing to updgrade/change their cabling needs sooner or later.


----------



## socalsharky

jimshowalter said:


> You can eliminate that problem by buying from Celerity directly.


I don't see any way on their website to order directly. Did you call?


----------



## jimshowalter

socalsharky said:


> I don't see any way on their website to order directly. Did you call?


http://shop.celeritytek.com/


----------



## Laserion

jrlnc said:


> I'm all for patience and waiting for Arrow-AV's report, but it has been a while (~1 month) since he said it would be available.
> 
> It's obviously a more detailed and/or difficult process than he expected. I don't fault him at all for it. It will be a great service to everyone when available. And it should be made a sticky reference thread under the HDMI Q&A forum.
> 
> Having said that, some of us *can't* wait and need to find solutions. I personally was in the situation with a brand new JVC 520 a month ago and had to flail around testing 5 other (35') cables before I got something that worked.
> 
> I ended up using a 35' Celerity fiber optic. And -yes- it seems to be true that there are more than 1 version of the Celerity cable out there, because the first one I tried only appeared to support 10 GBPS.


I can advise you RUIPRO. 30 mt - 100 feet cable worked perfect for me 4K-60Hz-4:4:4. I didn't have any single drop out with the image since i connected it.

They also have 50' which can fit for you. Not too cheap but still quite cheaper than Celerity. 

It's fiber optic of course and very thin, which makes assembly easy.

My System: JVC RS-400, Nvidia Shield, Pioneer SC-LX59 AVR. For short connection i use Monoprice Premium certified cables, 6' and 3'.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Cain said:


> Did Arrow-AV ever publish that comparison that was comping out on March 31?? I can't seem to find it. Thx!!





G-Rex said:


> I don't believe so, but I am really looking forward to it. Arrow, do you have an updated ETA?





Otto Pylot said:


> Patience Grasshopper, patience.





jrlnc said:


> I'm all for patience and waiting for Arrow-AV's report, but it has been a while (~1 month) since he said it would be available. It's obviously a more detailed and/or difficult process than he expected. I don't fault him at all for it. It will be a great service to everyone when available. And it should be made a sticky reference thread under the HDMI Q&A forum...


*UPDATE:* Hi folks, sorry for the delay in posting our HDMI CABLES PERFORMANCE EVALUATION & TESTING REPORT #1 | 50FT/15M+ LENGTH CABLES. 

We were a little optimistic with respect to the time involved organizing and administering everything involved regarding this. Matters were complicated somewhat when we discovered that in numerous instances particular cables were/are passing the 18 Gbps video bandwidth test in some instances but failing it in other instances, where we were testing each and every cable twice. This highlighted the existence of a third categorization wherein the cable will pass 18 Gbps signal some of the time but otherwise not. Where this would result in a video display working with and displaying an 18 Gbps video signal but intermittently dropping the signal and/or HDMI handshake due to not reliably and consistently passing a 18 Gbps video signal. 

Consequently we evolved our testing protocol accordingly and restarted our testing from scratch. This contributed to the delay. 

What we have now instead been doing is to carry out all of our tests four times per each and every cable; and this is with respect to the four number cables of each and every make and model tested, of which there are a total of 34. 

Further to this, with respect to any and all instances wherein a cable fails the 18 Gbps tests, and the cable is not a fibre-optic or active cable, then we are re-testing that cable connected via the METRA HDM-GA1 Gigabit Accelerator device to evaluate whether or not the device succeeds in making that particular make and model of cable pass an 18 Gbps video signal reliably and consistently; where these tests are also carried out four times per each and every cable. Furthermore, we are also including tests for 9 Gbps as well. So that's a whole lot of testing, but the results will be well worth the wait. 

The good news is that we will have finished our report and will be posting it on here within the next 36 hours. So not long to wait now folks 

We will post it via it's own thread within the HDMI Q&A thread such that it can be made sticky and used for reference by everyone thereafter.

This REPORT #1 relates exclusively to cables of lengths 50ft/15m+ where immediately following this we will be carrying out a second, REPORT #2 , wherein the evaluation and testing will be the same but with respect to 30ft/9m length cables, where all 34 of the same makes and models of cables will be included.

Thank you all for your patience. 
.


----------



## jong1

Sounds amazing! Can't wait to see the results.


----------



## Kazz063

ARROW-AV said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Matters were complicated somewhat when we discovered that in numerous instances particular cables were/are passing the 18 Gbps video bandwidth test in some instances but failing it in other instances, where we were testing each and every cable twice. This highlighted the existence of a third categorization wherein the cable will pass 18 Gbps signal some of the time but otherwise not. Where this would result in a video display working with and displaying an 18 Gbps video signal but intermittently dropping the signal and/or HDMI handshake due to not reliably and consistently passing a 18 Gbps video signal.


This shows just how hard it is to get a reliable result in a controlled scenario let alone the thousands of system combination scenarios out there.

This whole HDMI/4K/18Gbps thing is very frustrating.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kazz063 said:


> This shows just how hard it is to get a reliable result in a controlled scenario let alone the thousands of system combination scenarios out there.
> 
> This whole HDMI/4K/18Gbps thing is very frustrating.


Just wait till HDMI 2.1 and the 48Gbps cable hits the market


----------



## cannga

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ so far the best luck has been with Celerity cables for runs longer than about 20' - 25'. However, there are still the older Celerity cables out in the wild that are 10.2Gbps and not the supposed 18Gbps ones. You have to be careful on where and who you buy the cable from and carefully read the packaging to see which cable you have.


Am I reading it right, that the Celerity fiberoptic cable requires that at the display end there is USB port (to provide power)? I don't believe my projector has a USB port.
Thanks.

>>>>>>>>>>>
http://shop.celeritytek.com/p/ct-fiber-optic-hdmi-40?pp=12
No external power supplies
Power is easy to connect with Celerity. Power at the source component (TX - transmit) is drawn from the source HDMI connector using the HDMI “hot plug”. At the display (RX – receive), power is easily connected via a USB port on the TV and with the Celerity USB power cable which is wired into the Celerity Detachable HDMI connector. Easy.


----------



## Kazz063

Otto Pylot said:


> Just wait till HDMI 2.1 and the 48Gbps cable hits the market


Yes I think I'll go and find a quiet corner of the earth and hide there for a while (probably a long while) until they work that one out.


----------



## ARROW-AV

cannga said:


> Am I reading it right, that the Celerity fiberoptic cable requires that at the display end there is USB port (to provide power)? I don't believe my projector has a USB port.
> Thanks.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> http://shop.celeritytek.com/p/ct-fiber-optic-hdmi-40?pp=12
> No external power supplies
> Power is easy to connect with Celerity. Power at the source component (TX - transmit) is drawn from the source HDMI connector using the HDMI “hot plug”. At the display (RX – receive), power is easily connected via a USB port on the TV and with the Celerity USB power cable which is wired into the Celerity Detachable HDMI connector. Easy.


If your projector does not have a USB port you can purchase and use either an adapter plug which allows you to plug into a standard household electrical socket, such as THESE: *USB ADAPTOR PLUGS*; or alternatively you can now purchase electrical extension cables where in addition to the electrical sockets there are USB power sockets as well, such as THESE: *ELECTRICAL EXTENSION CABLES WITH USB POWER SOCKETS* 

That said, before you rush out and purchase a Celerity cable, you might want to wait circa 24 hours and read the findings and conclusions with respect to our report... 



Kazz063 said:


> This shows just how hard it is to get a reliable result in a controlled scenario let alone the thousands of system combination scenarios out there.
> 
> This whole HDMI/4K/18Gbps thing is very frustrating.


Precisely 

Which is where we believe that our report may prove to be quite useful, in that the objective is to reveal which HDMI solutions will allow you to get the most reliable result and at the most economical price 



Otto Pylot said:


> Just wait till HDMI 2.1 and the 48Gbps cable hits the market





Kazz063 said:


> *Yes I think I'll go and find a quiet corner of the earth and hide there for a while (probably a long while) until they work that one out.  *


See you there!








.


----------



## Cain

Thank you Arrow-AV! Everyone appreciates your time, effort and looks forward to your report... 

Take care, and thank you!


----------



## Cain

Laserion said:


> I can advise you RUIPRO. 30 mt - 100 feet cable worked perfect for me 4K-60Hz-4:4:4. I didn't have any single drop out with the image since i connected it.
> 
> They also have 50' which can fit for you. Not too cheap but still quite cheaper than Celerity.
> 
> It's fiber optic of course and very thin, which makes assembly easy.
> 
> My System: JVC RS-400, Nvidia Shield, Pioneer SC-LX59 AVR. For short connection i use Monoprice Premium certified cables, 6' and 3'.


Thank you, I'm leaning strongly towards the RuiPro cables. I need 10M. 

I'm not wild about the Celerity requiring power on the projector end, if it was on the source end there are all sorts of places I could easily supply that.


----------



## scarabaeus

scarabaeus said:


> Indeed. I did contact them, and apparently I stumbled onto a constuction site and fell into an open pit. This website, ruipro.com, is from the same vendor that runs the Amazon shop (IAVPRO), and they are in the process of building it as a brand website.
> 
> They were very helpful and provided a paypal address. The cable is now on the way via DHL directly from Hong Kong. I'll let you know the final verdict when it arrives this week.
> 
> The CS lady also mentioned that the other lengths of their cable are on the way to Amazon distribution, and should re-appear soon.


So, got the 15 meter (50 feet) cable, and (as others have been reporting) it's a total success!

I hooked it up between an Oppo UDP-203 and LG OLED 55EF9500. Popped in Bill Lynn and, voila, a clean picture. 

I still had my workaround for the old cable in place (Custom / UHD Auto / 4:2:2 / 8 bit), so it was 60 Hz 4:2:0 10 bit. After putting everything back to "Auto", I got 60 Hz 4:2:2 12 bit. Still, no sparkles or drop-outs, at the full 18 GBit/s.

Below an "unboxing" pic, and the two video modes. I also tried ARC, and 48 kHz AC3 worked without droputs. Unfortunately my TV does not support DD+, so I could not test 192 kHz over ARC.


----------



## jimshowalter

cannga said:


> Am I reading it right, that the Celerity fiberoptic cable requires that at the display end there is USB port (to provide power)? I don't believe my projector has a USB port.
> Thanks.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> http://shop.celeritytek.com/p/ct-fiber-optic-hdmi-40?pp=12
> No external power supplies
> Power is easy to connect with Celerity. Power at the source component (TX - transmit) is drawn from the source HDMI connector using the HDMI “hot plug”. At the display (RX – receive), power is easily connected via a USB port on the TV and with the Celerity USB power cable which is wired into the Celerity Detachable HDMI connector. Easy.


You're reading it correctly, but so long as you have a power outlet at your projector, you're fine. You just need a 1 amp USB power supply. There are about a bazillion of them for sale out there. I got one of these https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MMYHTF6/ in case the display didn't have a port near the HDMI, but it was right next to it on mine.

I forgot to mention that among the many really cool things about the Celerity is a total elimination of ground loops caused by display not near other equipment. But that's why you need a power supply on the receiving end--it can't get power from the HDMI.

By the way, the power on the source end is almost never necessary.


----------



## cannga

Thank you everyone - the replies have been very helpful and all seem more hopeful now.

While waiting for Arrrow AV's ultimate report, a couple more questions please:

*1.* Am I reading it right, that Celerity and Ruipro have both had perfect track record, with Ruipro less expensive?

*2.* If above is case, Ruipro 33 ft @ $160 is an extremely appealing alternative to probably the best copper HDMI, Blue Jeans Series 1 35 ft that I am ordering. (I am ordering both 25 and 35 ft; this was before I started reading about Ruipro .)

*3.* For those many (un)fortunate JVC owners  who have to use HDFury Linker, I assume running *25 ft BD player to Linker* and then follow with *25 ft Linker to JVC* is one way to extend copper HDMI connection to 50 ft?


----------



## jong1

I don't think anything has a perfect record but it's hard to judge from random reports if, when there are problems, it's:

- a genuinely faulty cable - damaged or manufactured incorrectly - when the design is good and manufacturing is almost always fine - something that would be fixed by returning for a warranty replacement
- a problem with another device - source or display
- an installation issue
- in the case of Celerity, caused by someone using the old model of cable that still appears to be hanging around the supply chain

or, lastly.....

- that the cable design or manufacturing methods are not satisfactory

I've seen a few reports of problems with both Ruipro and Celerity, but, while we wait for Arrow-AV, I'd say Fiber Optic is the only technology is anything like a proven track record over 25ft and Celerity has a better track record, just because it has been out there longer and has had a good number of successful installations by professional installers. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I don't think I have heard of a professional installer who has had a problem with Celerity with known good devices. Ruipro might turn out to be as good, but hasn't got that confidence yet.

So..... I'd say right now the best thing is to wait for Arrow-AV(!), if that is not possible and budget is no issue go Celerity, if you really cannot afford that and still cannot wait(!) go Ruipro


----------



## alebonau

cannga said:


> Thank you everyone - the replies have been very helpful and all seem more hopeful now.
> 
> While waiting for Arrrow AV's ultimate report, a couple more questions please:
> 
> *1.* Am I reading it right, that Celerity and Ruipro have both had perfect track record, with Ruipro less expensive?
> 
> 
> ~


I am not sure anyone would be game to say that. we have seen here a 50% hit rate with some early results arrow posted on the celerity earlier in this thread when started testing. and we have very recently also had someone post their celerity failing after install. so not sure about this "perfect track record" ! i wouldn't be so sure 




cannga said:


> ~
> 
> *3.* For those many (un)fortunate JVC owners  who have to use HDFury Linker, I assume running *25 ft BD player to Linker* and then follow with *25 ft Linker to JVC* is one way to extend copper HDMI connection to 50 ft?


not sure about that.... first have heard of it. 

as it appears the actual 25ft cable itself still would still seem to be the stumbling block 

as a jvc owner have found two 10m/32ft solutions that work in my context and have and done over extended period. refer original post. one active and one passive. but both are local au solutions so maybe no use to you


----------



## cannga

Idle chat and adding to data-base while waiting for Arrow-AV . System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector.

*1. Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29. Doesn't work. Full refund given by official ebay Monoprice seller - no question asked.
*2. OLD Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* This 5 year old cable is labeled "Series 1." Not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. This is my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.
*3. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. *Works perfect.*
*4. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft:* Coming soon.


----------



## cannga

alebonau said:


> not sure about that.... first have heard of it.
> 
> as it appears the actual 25ft cable itself still would still seem to be the stumbling block
> 
> as a jvc owner have found two 10m/32ft solutions that work in my context and have and done over extended period. refer original post. one active and one passive. but both are local au solutions so maybe no use to you


I hope it works. Basically I need a total of 35 ft from player to JVC projector. The 25 ft Blue Jeans works, so what I could do is get a 10 ft Blue Jeans from Bluray player to the Linker, and then use the 25 ft Blue Jeans from Linker to JVC projector. In effect using the Linker as a bridge in between and limiting cable lengths to 25 ft or less.

Any combination of two 25 ft cable or less cable should work. 20+20, 20+25. I do realize it's all theory .


----------



## Kazz063

cannga said:


> Idle chat and adding to data-base while waiting for Arrow-AV . System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector.
> 
> *3. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. *Works perfect.*


The problem is that while it works in your system it may not work in another system and that's what makes it so frustrating.


----------



## cannga

Kazz063 said:


> The problem is that while it works in your system it may not work in another system and that's what makes it so frustrating.


I know . That's why I breathed a sign of relief when my BJ 25 ft worked. Just curious: have there been many reports of Blue Jeans NOT working at length of 25 ft or less?


----------



## Marc Drake

scarabaeus said:


> So, got the 15 meter (50 feet) cable, and (as others have been reporting) it's a total success!
> 
> I hooked it up between an Oppo UDP-203 and LG OLED 55EF9500. Popped in Bill Lynn and, voila, a clean picture.
> 
> I still had my workaround for the old cable in place (Custom / UHD Auto / 4:2:2 / 8 bit), so it was 60 Hz 4:2:0 10 bit. After putting everything back to "Auto", I got 60 Hz 4:2:2 12 bit. Still, no sparkles or drop-outs, at the full 18 GBit/s.
> 
> Below an "unboxing" pic, and the two video modes. I also tried ARC, and 48 kHz AC3 worked without droputs. Unfortunately my TV does not support DD+, so I could not test 192 kHz over ARC.


Many thanks Scarabaeus on your report btw... Ruipro gets another box ticked 

I'll give 4k/60/444 a crack when my 15 metre Ruipro arrives... left HK this morning

Going by your pic I can just imagine the look on your face when you saw the box cover for the first time! No doubt hoping that the cable wasn't made by the same 5 year old as what the box was


----------



## scarabaeus

Additional info about the RuiPro 15 m cable:



scarabaeus said:


> So, got the 15 meter (50 feet) cable, and (as others have been reporting) it's a total success!
> 
> [...]
> 
> I also tried ARC, and 48 kHz AC3 worked without droputs. Unfortunately my TV does not support DD+, so I could not test 192 kHz over ARC.


Well, I took the cable to work and tested DD+ over ARC. Sadly, with one setup (Onkyo TX-NR3010, Insignia RokuTV) it has problems. CEC negotiation of ARC went well, but DD+ (192 kHz) was a no-go. The AVR did not even detect a signal.

With DD (48 kHz), I noticed that changing the AVR volume causes audio dropouts. Volume changes are communicated over the cable by CEC messages. They seem to interfere with the audio signal on the adjacent wire, probably some crosstalk. With a Monoprice Cabernet 20 ft cable, I did not encounter these problems, though that one fails, of course, with UHD 60 Hz.

Then I tried an HDMI Analyzer (Astro VA-1842), as both generator and display. UHD 60 Hz 4:4:4 8 bit was flawless, again. And this time, audio was fine, too! PCM at 48 kHz, 192 kHz, many others inbetween, came through clear. Even sending CEC at the same time did not cause any dropouts. PCM is more robust than compressed audio, but with a 1000 Hz sine test tone, dropouts are audible. It seems to depend on how well the ARC circuitry in the TV and AVR are designed, this might be different for each setup. Duh, I'm an idiot. I tested the forward direction of audio, not ARC. Update in a little bit...

So, ARC works, but in some cases only up to 48 kHz (PCM or DD or DTS), and not concurrently with CEC.


----------



## socalsharky

I'm getting ready to run wire in an existing room that will be converted to a media room. The equipment (Yamaha 3060, Oppo 203 (likely), DirecTV receiver, Fire TV) will be located remotely. I will be using a Epson 5030 or JVC 420 projector. I need to run 3 HDMI cables 30 to 40 feet from the AV closet to the media room: 1 for the PJ, and 2 for game systems that will be located on the front wall of the media room. The cable to the projector will be in the attic, so will be relatively accessible (but still not easy) if I need to replace it at some point in the future. However, the 2 cables for the game system will run down an interior wall, and would be much more difficult to replace. 

I've read most of this thread, and the many posts about unreliable HDMI cables, once you go over 25 feet with 4K sources. However, most of these problems appear to be associated with conventional HDMI cables. My question: Is there a sure-fire cable system that I can install to meet current and near-future needs? Fiber Optic? I have seen a lot of recommendations for Cat 6/7, with HDMI converters on each end. Does that work every time? Or are there still potential problems? I do not want to use an active cable if I can help it, due to the unknown lifespan of these cables.

Also anxiously awaiting the Arrow test report


----------



## bluechunks

socalsharky said:


> I'm getting ready to run wire in an existing room that will be converted to a media room. The equipment (Yamaha 3060, Oppo 203 (likely), DirecTV receiver, Fire TV) will be located remotely. I will be using a Epson 5030 or JVC 420 projector. I need to run 3 HDMI cables 30 to 40 feet from the AV closet to the media room: 1 for the PJ, and 2 for game systems that will be located on the front wall of the media room. The cable to the projector will be in the attic, so will be relatively accessible (but still not easy) if I need to replace it at some point in the future. However, the 2 cables for the game system will run down an interior wall, and would be much more difficult to replace.
> 
> I've read most of this thread, and the many posts about unreliable HDMI cables, once you go over 25 feet with 4K sources. However, most of these problems appear to be associated with conventional HDMI cables. My question: Is there a sure-fire cable system that I can install to meet current and near-future needs? Fiber Optic? I have seen a lot of recommendations for Cat 6/7, with HDMI converters on each end. Does that work every time? Or are there still potential problems? I do not want to use an active cable if I can help it, due to the unknown lifespan of these cables.


IMHO:

Sure fire solution: install fibre optic INSIDE a conduit. You will have performance for your existing equipment and you can easily upgrade the cable later. Might as well put a Cat6/7 in there as well to provide internet connectivity to the displays for potential upgrades or other uses in the future including HDMI via ethernet.

There is no existing cable that provides performance for 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 so you will be making some sort of change in the future if you need/want anything greater than 4K.


----------



## socalsharky

bluechunks said:


> IMHO:
> 
> Sure fire solution: install fibre optic INSIDE a conduit. You will have performance for your existing equipment and you can easily upgrade the cable later. Might as well put a Cat6/7 in there as well to provide connectivity to the displays and for potential upgrades.
> 
> There is no existing cable that provides performance for 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 so you will be making some sort of change in the future if you need/want anything greater than 4K.


Not looking for more than 4K at this time. Also, how do people run 1" to 1-1/2" conduit inside a conventional stud (3-1/2") wall? The hole you have to drill in the top plate would almost wipe out the entire width of the wall. Same with any fire blocking as you go down the wall. The other obvious issue is that the conduit requires a complete tear out of the drywall in that area. I was hoping to fish the cable down the wall.


----------



## wse

"Expensive HDMI cables are a rip-off and offer no difference in picture quality over cheap ones."​
https://www.cnet.com/news/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

My favorite 

- https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

I went to my dealer and compared AudioQuest Diamond HDMI Digital Video Cable selling for over 2,000 dollars  with the Monoprice cable costing less than four dollars

Plugged them into Oppo 205 and his projector Sony VPL-VW5000ES fired up Lucy on 4K UHD movie and we got identical pictures 

I was doing the swapping of cables and three of the sales people in the store could not tell any difference in picture quality 

Same thing with the sound when plugged into his Trinnov!

So don't get screwed by these guys it's a total rip off!!!

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQHDMIDIA&opt=2217


----------



## scarabaeus

scarabaeus said:


> Additional info about the RuiPro 15 m cable:
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> Then I tried an HDMI Analyzer (Astro VA-1842), as both generator and display. UHD 60 Hz 4:4:4 8 bit was flawless, again. And this time, audio was fine, too! PCM at 48 kHz, 192 kHz, many others inbetween, came through clear. Even sending CEC at the same time did not cause any dropouts. PCM is more robust than compressed audio, but with a 1000 Hz sine test tone, dropouts are audible. It seems to depend on how well the ARC circuitry in the TV and AVR are designed, this might be different for each setup. Duh, I'm an idiot. I tested the forward direction of audio, not ARC. Update in a little bit...
> 
> So, ARC works, but in some cases only up to 48 kHz (PCM or DD or DTS), and not concurrently with CEC.


This time I set up the analyzer correctly with ARC audio. PCM worked at 48 and 192 kHz, which is promising. But CEC traffic is causing dropouts, more at 192 kHz than at 48 kHz, but either one is not good. Same verdict as above still stands.


----------



## scarabaeus

wse said:


> "Expensive HDMI cables are a rip-off and offer no difference in picture quality over cheap ones."​
> https://www.cnet.com/news/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/


You know, that article is 5 years old. Sure, it still stands that as long as a signal gets through uncorrupted, all cables are the same, no matter the price. But things have changed with UHD and the speeds required for full HDMI 2.0. Many cables that were fine with 1080p, deep color and 3D now won't work with UHD. And not all UHD is the same, ranging from 9 to 18 GBit/s.

Cables have to be tested at the full 18 GBit/s, and not everyone has the equipement at home to create such a use case. Many will be up for a bad surprise when they update their devices to UHD.


----------



## Otto Pylot

scarabaeus said:


> This time I set up the analyzer correctly with ARC audio. PCM worked at 48 and 192 kHz, which is promising. But CEC traffic is causing dropouts, more at 192 kHz than at 48 kHz, but either one is not good. Same verdict as above still stands.


Could be that the CEC issue is the same old CEC issue that we've been seeing for years, which has nothing to do with the cable itself but the incompatible CEC protocols. At least the cable works for you for the video which I think most people are concerned with. CEC issues are easily corrected with a Harmony remote provided your system allows you separate control of ARC/CEC. If not.......


----------



## scarabaeus

Otto Pylot said:


> Could be that the CEC issue is the same old CEC issue that we've been seeing for years, which has nothing to do with the cable itself but the incompatible CEC protocols. At least the cable works for you for the video which I think most people are concerned with. CEC issues are easily corrected with a Harmony remote provided your system allows you separate control of ARC/CEC. If not.......


In this case, I don't think so. The CEC commands I used to test had nothing to do with the audio processing, and the analyzer is not acting on those anyways. It just displays a log of what is coming over the line.

And, yes, for my case the ARC capabilities are sufficient. My TV does not do DD+ on ARC, and I have CEC disabled everywhere since I have a Harmony.

I'm thinking about using the older 50 ft cable (Cabernet) I still have in my wall for a secondary connection from my AVR to the ARC port, and hooking up the Oppo UDP with the new cable into another HDMI port. That way I avoid the audio sync issue when going through the Oppo, and I can use ARC via my old cable where it worked flawlessly.


----------



## cannga

System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector. *All results* still pending long term testing, and may not be applicable to your system. I merely want to add to the database.

*1. Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29. Doesn't work. Full refund given by official ebay Monoprice seller.
*2. OLD Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* This 5 year old cable is labeled "Series 1." I did not realize that there have been different versions of Series 1 cables: old (Series 1) and new (Series 1E). This is the old version and it's not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. (It's my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.)
*3. Generic No Name HDMI Cable 10 ft*: Says HDMI 1.3 on the cable (!!). Don't even remember where it came from . 10 ft - Works perfect. That this cable works is key to me regarding high speed HDMI: for once in life, shorter is better LOL. Pending others' input, I would speculate therefore most generic short length cables should work for high speed HDMI function.
*4. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 25 ft - Works perfect.
*5. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft:* "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 35 ft - Works perfect. Very happy with this.
*6. Generic 10 ft HDMI + HDFury Linker + Blue Jeans 1E 35 ft:* For those, particularly JVC RSx00 (cheers), who use HDFury Linker. Here Linker also acts as a bridge to extend connection to 45 ft - Works perfect. 

In number 6, my earlier "theory" of using Linker as a bridge to lengthen copper HDMI connection was tested and worked out perfectly.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE:*

Hi folks, 

We've just started a new thread wherein we have posted our initial report, which you can find HERE: 

* TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*


Any additions to 'the database' please kindly post into that thread, the idea being that this will serve as a lookup resource. 

Enjoy!


----------



## Cain

ARROW-AV said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> We've just started a new thread wherein we have posted our initial report, which you can find HERE:
> 
> * TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*
> 
> 
> Any additions to 'the database' please kindly post into that thread, the idea being that this will serve as a lookup resource.
> 
> Enjoy!


Thank you, I'm looking at it now!


----------



## alebonau

I've added the below to the opening post of this thread to link to ArrowAv's testing and report,


Arrow AV has been very busy with some rigorous testing and below is Part 1 of the report outlining the results ....

TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...hdmi-2-0b.html


----------



## conan481

Thanks for the report! Gonna grab that monoprice 50ft cable but damn I wish there was a cheaper alternative. Wondering if you had a chance to test the 75 ft version?


----------



## ARROW-AV

conan481 said:


> Thanks for the report! Gonna grab that monoprice 50ft cable but damn I wish there was a cheaper alternative. Wondering if you had a chance to test the 75 ft version?


Not yet but we will be doing so very shortly


----------



## jimshowalter

A suggestion for your excellent report--add a column indicating whether the cable requires external power.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jimshowalter said:


> A suggestion for your excellent report--add a column indicating whether the cable requires external power.


Thank you for the feedback and suggestion. I think adding an extra column would be overkill... Out of the 35 cables tested only 2 require external power, namely the CELERITY TEK and CHROMIS cables, but I've added this as a note in the download post


----------



## bcabes

*Extron HD 4K 101 Plus HDMI Cable Equalizer*

Has anyone tried the Extron solution? I was able to get 4K30 from the Monoprice Blackbird but not 4K60 through my 50 foot HDMI cable. I am getting kind of and hoping that maybe since this is powered it will be the extra boost that I need.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ all you can do at this point in time is try, and make sure you carefully read the return policy. Fiber does seem to be the answer for a lot of people but not everybody. Connected hardware plays a big part as well.


----------



## fizban11

Link to a post I made in another thread here. Success with two cables greater than 7.5m with my equipment. 

Hope it helps someone.


----------



## jk246

I've been reading this thread for the past 2 days, have gotten thru about 600 out of 850 of the current posts, as well as posts in other threads, so please don't blame me if I missed something along the way.

First, many thanks for the work that Arrow-AV has put into this project, and for the input especially from David Vaughn both here and in his articles in SoundAndVision on this topic. Also, a huge thanks to Jeff Boccoccio at DPL Labs for his excellent series of technical articles on HDMI and it's issues on CEPro.com.

I found this thread after buying an Oppo BDP-203 to use with my Denon AVR-X7200WA receiver and recently-purchased LG 65C7 OLED (one of the most satisfying acquisitions I can remember making) and researching what cable to buy to go between the AVR and the OLED. I really wanted to buy a very good quality passive cable, but after reading David Vaughn's article and Arrow-AV's test results I quickly realized the folly of that idea. My OLED is on one wall and my AV rack is on the adjoining wall and the cable needs to pass over an 8'6" entryway (thru ceiling and walls), and as such I have a 10m (32.8') HDMI 1.4 cable that needs to be replaced. This cable along with a feed-thru keystone wall-plate and adjoining 1m HDMI cable just fits with enough slack to be able to move the rack (which is on wheels) away from the way for maintenance/ configuration.

Arrow-AV's test results made it clear to me that no passive cable was able to pass all tests beyond 30' and maybe even less without the addition of a Metra Gigabit Accelerator, and even that is highly dependent on selecting the right cable and adds another $300 to the cost of that cable. I have run across some Velox Active cables who's specs indicate that they would work, but that's a crap shoot, and an expensive one at $700+, and Comprehensive has a certified line that was supposed to add longer active certified cables this spring, but so far nothing has been released and the price is unknown. That leaves Redmere, which has an unacceptably high history of failures, and their website (the chip maker's) appears to have been inactive for some time, which makes me wonder how long they'll be around, now that there's other and possibly better competitors in the active cable marketplace. And the final option is optical, which as expensive as it is, looks fiscally pretty attractive at this cable length when you consider a $300 Gigabit Accelerator or a $700+ cable. There are other active cables out there that don't use Redmere, but the better quality ones which are available that I've been able to find are more expensive than the optical solutions and there's not much information I could find about whether or not they work or any independent testing.

That pretty much leaves optical, or in my case, optical hybrid, because I do use the ARC function and don't wish to discontinue using it. I expect I'll have to add another meter or two to my required minimum cable length because of reports that optical can be problematic going thru wallplate keystones and I'll have to go direct from the AVR out to the OLED in with no intervening cables, so that leaves my target cable length at about 40' minimum. 

Right now it looks like I'll be ordering the RUIPRO 15m B01N6HM1RL @$180 because of many reports of success, although I there is one post from another Denon AVR-X7200WA user that he was unsuccessful with a DTECH optical cable and had to get a Monoprice Cabernet 30' cable that initially is reported as working well, so that may be my fallback (REDMere chip be damned) if the RUIPRO has any interface problems with my receiver; however, he had a different display than I do, so maybe that was where his problem occurred.

One thought about someone's comment regarding Celerity optical cables costing less to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 because you would just need to replace the ends... I would submit that the most expensive part of the assembly by far are the ends, especially what will be needed when it's time to go to HDMI 2.1.

Thanks to Arrow-AV for their continued work on this project, and since I don't remember seeing any mention in this thread of the differentiation between pure optical HDMI cables and optical hybrid cables that include ARC capability, I hope you might include whether or not that option is included in the optical cables tested in the future. For example, I still don't know if the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR cables have ARC, it doesn't exist in the specs on their website, and my experience in electronics is that if it doesn't say it has something it's most likely because is doesn't have it.

Another optical hybrid for possible future test:
Light-Link HDMI Cable HL20 by Sewell, 50 ft 4K @ 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0731VZWGJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=A28128AMZ00PEQ&psc=1

All comments, corrections, suggestions, etc. will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Gengis Marsell

Hello,

I bought two ruipro fiber hdmi 15m in USA from Amazon, but I live in Europe.
Both of them working well up to [email protected] 10bit 4:4:4.
Using them (both tested) on [email protected] 10bit 4:2:2 i have white pixel crazy in the screen (it's about 15-20 pixels) but I get the resolution running.
Testing [email protected] 10bit 4:2:0 fixing this crazy pixel, but it's not like 4:2:2.
Pixel crazy also in [email protected] 8bit RGB.
Tested the cables from ampli Yamaha a2060 to projector JVC X5500 and from xbox one s to Jvc x5500: same issue.
Tested xbox one s to jvc with short 5m hdmi cable and no crazy pixel.

Do you know if there is a HDMI injector/reapeater that works with this kind of fiber cable, able to fix this issue?
I tested a Tech Link HDMI repeater (that worked well for years with a standard hdmi cable) but i get black screen with the ruipro (tested from both sides).

Thank You


----------



## jong1

Gengis Marsell said:


> Hello,
> 
> I bought two ruipro fiber hdmi 15m in USA from Amazon, but I live in Europe.
> Both of them working well up to [email protected] 10bit 4:4:4.
> Using them (both tested) on [email protected] 10bit 4:2:2 i have white pixel crazy in the screen (it's about 15-20 pixels) but I get the resolution running.
> Testing [email protected] 10bit 4:2:0 fixing this crazy pixel, but it's not like 4:2:2.
> Pixel crazy also in [email protected] 8bit RGB.
> Tested the cables from ampli Yamaha a2060 to projector JVC X5500 and from xbox one s to Jvc x5500: same issue.
> Tested xbox one s to jvc with short 5m hdmi cable and no crazy pixel.
> 
> Do you know if there is a HDMI injector/reapeater that works with this kind of fiber cable, able to fix this issue?
> I tested a Tech Link HDMI repeater (that worked well for years with a standard hdmi cable) but i get black screen with the ruipro (tested from both sides).
> 
> Thank You


If two cables show the same symptoms I would look to the other devices in the chain.

I also had a Yamaha 2060, tried 3 of them @18Gbps with the Celerity cable, and eventually, after demonstrating all worked without the AVR and after trying a Denon and a 3060 loaned by my reseller, Yamaha UK (very kindly) upgraded me for free to the 3060 which has worked flawlessly. I'm not saying that all 2060s are flawed, but I think chipsets and designs were still quite immature in the 2016 generation, particularly for 18Gbps and some devices out there don't quite cut it.

If really your symptoms are the same without your Yamaha, it may be your projector. Try a different display.


----------



## jk246

An update on my previous post (#886), I bought a RUIPro 50' Fiber cable about a month ago. I ended up having to return it because ARC would not work- not at all. The video looked great but I did not fully test it with every format, because the lack of ARC was a deal-breaker. Bear in mind that I only tested one cable, so the cable I received may have been defective. The build quality did look great, and the diameter of the cable is very small, which makes me question whether the small diameter of the copper conductors used for the ARC function (fiber HDMI cables that support the ARC function are not pure fiber, at least none that I've seen so far, they are hybrids) are inadequate for this length of cable, or if it's because, at lease according to the cross-section drawings I've seen, it's because the conductors do not appear to be twisted-pair. Of course, if you're not using the ARC function and never expect to use it in the future, then this is not a factor.

I expect to follow up with the manufacturer at a later date when time permits, they seemed truly interested in resolving this issue. In the meantime, I bought 2 Monoprice Cabernet active 45' cables which I've been using for for over a month now, without issue. These cables build quality are very good, but are much larger diameter that the RUIPro cables of course, and are slightly stiff, rated for in-wall use, and cost only about $70 total for 2 cables 45' in length.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ was the Ruipro cable listed as being ARC compatible because not all Fiber cables are capable of ARC. That's the drawback. A stiffer cable usually means a thicker gauge wire which can, in some cases, increase your chances of success. ARC/CEC is such a pain in the @ss because it can have issues with just about any cable type over any distance. HDMI 2.1 is supposed to have eARC, which I believe takes advantage of the never-used ethernet channel in HDMI cables but you need the corresponding chipset at either end, so there's that......


----------



## Joe Fernand

Gengis Marsell: - do your cables have Black or Silver HDMI Hoods? Have you tried bypassing the AVR (Source direct to Display).

jk246/Otto - Ruipro Hybrid Cables do Support ARC, though some folk have reported intermittent ARC on the longer cable lengths if you are running 2160p60 at 4:4:4 (which Ruipro are aware of and working on).

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Joe Fernand - I take it that ARC is achieved via the copper wire in the hybrid cable?


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> Gengis Marsell: - do your cables have Black or Silver HDMI Hoods? Have you tried bypassing the AVR (Source direct to Display).
> 
> jk246/Otto - Ruipro Hybrid Cables do Support ARC, though some folk have reported intermittent ARC on the longer cable lengths if you are running 2160p60 at 4:4:4 (which Ruipro are aware of and working on).
> 
> Joe


Hi Joe, as I mentioned above I bought a 50' RUIPro cable because of my need for ARC. I reported that ARC did not work- not intermittent- did not work at all- zero return audio. ARC worked fine with two 6' HDMI cables with a F-to-F HDMI adapter joining them, and with a Monoprice Cabernet Active 45' cable. I only had one cable, so I don't know if this was a faulty cable or a faulty design. A sample of one is not sufficient to make any determination about whether RUIPro's cables are good or bad, just able to determine that this one cable did not support ARC. 4K video looked pristine. The cable was returned for refund and the manufacturer offered to send me a replacement that was custom made with a braided shield because they thought that I was running the cable close to AC power- I was not. I did not test it at 2160p 4:4:4, but am disappointed to hear that there are issues with that, as it was advertised as being compatible.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> @Joe Fernand - I take it that ARC is achieved via the copper wire in the hybrid cable?


Yes, Otto. Copper conductors for ARC. I've looked at cables from several manufacturers and so far all appear to use fiber hybrid cable from the same manufacturer. There are also fiber HDMI cables that don't support ARC and have fiber only.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ and to be clear, it was the Ruipro Hybrid cable that did not work? It's always possible to get a bad cable from anyone, and a 50' run can be difficult even under the best of circumstances.

Edit: I just saw your response. You must've posted just before me.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ and to be clear, it was the Ruipro Hybrid cable that did not work? It's always possible to get a bad cable from anyone, and a 50' run can be difficult even under the best of circumstances.
> 
> Edit: I just saw your response. You must've posted just before me.


Yes, that is correct, it was a RUIPro cable, yes, I was careful to report that I only tested one cable, and yes 50' is a long run, but RUIPro advertised the cable to work with ARC at this length and even longer lengths. I bought the cable through Amazon, but is was shipped from the manufacturer in China, and Amazon accepted the return and refunded my money. I may order another at a later date- will wait to see what happens with the 2160/60p 4:4:4 issue mentioned above, and see if they made any changes to the ARC copper conductors (larger diameter, twisted pairs, etc). Even though they offered a custom replacement, I'm reluctant to buy anything that's one-of-a-kind for an application like this.

Yes, I think we posted at same time.


----------



## Joe Fernand

I haven’t experienced the problem (I have ARC working at all lengths up to 50m in my test rig), have had zero issues with any cables we have supplied and only heard about it from a solitary report on here from Ruipro Support.

I don’t normally use ARC due to CEC hassles on my main system.

Joe


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> I haven’t experienced the problem (I have ARC working at all lengths up to 50m in my test rig), have had zero issues with any cables we have supplied and only heard about it from a solitary report on here from Ruipro Support.
> 
> I don’t normally use ARC due to CEC hassles on my main system.
> 
> Joe


Maybe I was the "solitary report... from RUIPro Support"... Interestingly, RUIPro kind of dismissed what was my first inclination, and offered a shielded cable instead of a replacement as a solution. They seemed like very nice people, truly interested in resolving the issue... I'll circle back to them when I get a chance. Maybe by then they'll have a resolution for 2160/[email protected]:4:4 by then.

jk


----------



## Otto Pylot

@jk246 - how was the bend radius of the cable when you tested it? I'm also curious as to what the wire gauge is.

@Joe Fernand - 50m (150')? Don't you mean 50'?


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> @jk246 - how was the bend radius of the cable when you tested it? I'm also curious as to what the wire gauge is.
> 
> @Joe Fernand - 50m (150')? Don't you mean 50'?


RUIPro lists "ultra-small long-term bending radius(30mm) hybrid cable", "up to 70m [yes, meters] maximum length with 4K60p".

The cable is very thin (smaller than a pencil) the connector shells are minimized to allow installation in a conduit or flexible conduit to prevent damage. Also, when thinking about how long your cable should be, if you install it in walls or ceiling, consider a length that will length that will allow you to go directly from the source to the display/projector without any intervening wall mounted feed-thrus or short cables at each end, as I've read reports about problems from people who did this. If you want to wall-mount connectors and order a cable a couple of meters longer than the minimum length, you'll have a fall-back position in case this doesn't work. Also, if you install in wall or ceiling, ALWAYS test the cable before installation! (You'd be surprised how many people don't). I couldn't find a maximum pull-tension spec, but it's something you should be aware of- even though fiber optic cable often has a kevlar buffer around it the addition of the copper conductors are probably going to become the limiting factor, since based on the diameter of the cable, I would doubt that they would be any larger than 26 AWG.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@jk246 - testing before installation (laying it out on the floor), continuous run (no connectors or extenders), being mindful of the bend radius, etc is what we always recommend. If you do have conduit in place (1.5" - 2.0"), then it's not a bad idea to lay in some solid core CAT-6 or 6a cable (non CCS and not a CAT-6 ethernet cable), along with a pull string, for future use. You can always throw in a coax just in case. You can coil up the cable in each end (installers loop) and just tuck it away inside the junction box. The cable can always be used to extend an ethernet connection with punchdown keystone jacks to hardwire your HTS (like I've done) or used to extend your video run with active termination points such as HDBT (once the current HDMI chipset are available).


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> @jk246 - testing before installation (laying it out on the floor), continuous run (no connectors or extenders), being mindful of the bend radius, etc is what we always recommend. If you do have conduit in place (1.5" - 2.0"), then it's not a bad idea to lay in some solid core CAT-6 or 6a cable (non CCS and not a CAT-6 ethernet cable), along with a pull string, for future use. You can always throw in a coax just in case. You can coil up the cable in each end (installers loop) and just tuck it away inside the junction box. The cable can always be used to extend an ethernet connection with punchdown keystone jacks to hardwire your HTS (like I've done) or used to extend your video run with active termination points such as HDBT (once the current HDMI chipset are available).


You've got it covered Otto! Never know who I'm talking to here, so forgive me for covering all the bases. My is fully wired, over 160 runs of Cat6 and Cat6A/E (not an official standard but used in broadcast facilities when Cat6 won't cut it). Also some old Cat 5 used mainly for music distribution. Every wall (except shower) has multiple drops, most walls with 2 drop locations, all homerun to 2 Cisco 300 series layer 3 switches, another Cisco 300 at the AV Rack, and 2 more in my office for servers and workstations. Ceilings wired with Engenius APs, drops for cameras; drops in several places on upper walls for PoE NTP-driven clocks, with all computers, clocks synced to 2 GPS stratum 1 time servers (main and backup), APC AV S20 UPS w addition battery backup for AV rack and LG OLED, 4- APC SU-1500 UPS for various computers, 1- APC-SU-750 for FiOS ONT & G1100 router. All Rokus, TV's, SIP phones, etc are hard-wired... wireless is just for stuff like iPhones, iPads, and devices with no ethernet connector. Extra pull cords or conduits for future addition of 10G nodes, and pulling fiber where necessary. Even the HVAC room & balcony have multiple drops for home automation and security cameras, music over ethernet, tv via SiliconDust IP tuners. It's a work in progress... not your typical home network.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@jk246 - kindred spirits fer sure


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi Otto

We stock (and test) the Ruipro at 5m (16') through to 50m (164') 

One of our local Hi-Fi/Home Cinema retailers are using them at 30m (98') in their demo suite.

Directionality is key with this type of cable so anyone handing the cable over to a 'spark' or builder to install has to ensure the installer knows which way around the cable goes.

Joe


----------



## Gengis Marsell

Yes, tested rui pro (both of them) directly from pc with GTX 1080 to jvc x5500 AND xbox one s to jvc x5500 (no ampli in the middle): same crazy white pixels.
Graphic is stunning also in 4:2:0 10bit or 4:2:2 8bit but this is not 18Gbps but about 14Gbps if I'm not wrong.
Rui Pro support is amazing: they'll send a new cable to test it.
I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Joe Fernand - thanks for the clarification. >100' is impressive. Has your retailer "stressed" the installation (sharp bend radius)?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi Otto - that would be me.

Have tried them coiled, straight, twisted all good - have avoided going down the ‘destruction’ route as our install team and installer customers are not that daft 

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jedi1982

I just ordered a 10M and a 15M Ruipro HDMI and am looking forward to it.

On the less tech scale, I'm looking for a reliable 50' HDMI to connect to my PS4 Pro. Doesn't have to have absolute 4K transmission like I'm expecting from my Ruipros at that distance. Any suggestions on brands?


----------



## flyrl12

*ARC dropouts with FO cable*

Received a 15m run of Ruipro. Nice thin cable and looks like 18gb video is fine. Two issues. One end of the wire is not properly held in the connector stress relief - the outer sleeve is free to move. Time to whip out the hockey tape and wrap that join. Also, there are audio dropouts on ARC (Sony AE1/Anthem AVM60). Tried two shorter cables in the same setup (not FO) and all is fine so the Ruipro is definitely contributing to the problem.

I probably should return it (the stress relief is a bother), but Ruipro says to keep the cable and they will soon send me something that should work better. Seems fair.


----------



## jk246

flyrl12 said:


> Received a 15m run of Ruipro. Nice thin cable and looks like 18gb video is fine. Two issues. One end of the wire is not properly held in the connector stress relief - the outer sleeve is free to move. Time to whip out the hockey tape and wrap that join. Also, there are audio dropouts on ARC (Sony AE1/Anthem AVM60). Tried two shorter cables in the same setup (not FO) and all is fine so the Ruipro is definitely contributing to the problem.
> 
> I probably should return it (the stress relief is a bother), but Ruipro says to keep the cable and they will soon send me something that should work better. Seems fair.


Yeah, had a 50' RUIPro which delivered pristine 4k video, no problem at all- until I tried to use the ARC function. In my case I had no return audio at all. RUIPro initially said they thought it was because I ran it too close to AC, but it was just lying across the floor and not close to any AC when I tested it, to make sure everything worked okay before installing it inside the walls and ceiling. They (RUIPro) were very nice about it and said that they would build a custom shielded cable for me, but I've seen an exploded diagram of the cable itself and if the diagram is correct it uses straight-line (non-twisted pair) small diameter conductors for the ARC function which results in relatively high resistance in a lengthy cable and more importantly doesn't make for very good transmission line characteristics of constant and matching impedance, important because while not as high in bandwidth as a video stream, we're not talking about baseband audio, we're talking about multichannel encoded data which requires a transmission line to maintain the integrity of the 1's and 0's being sent over it. You can probably get away with small, untwisted pair conductors over short cable, but not one that's 50'.

I replaced the RUIPro with a Monoprice Cabernet Active 40' cable that had significantly larger conductors which ARC worked great... for about a month-to-six weeks. Then I started having periodic short drop-outs in the ARC audio and could see the AVR's decoder dropping out at the same time, which informed me that it was having trouble decoding the ARC signal. I replaced the Cabernet cable with 2 shorter, good quality passive HDMI cables butted together with an HDMI M-M adapter, in total about 10' - 12' long, and no problems at all in the last month. Bottom line, the ARC conductors in the Cabernet were probably on the bare edge of working, and perhaps due to aging or some other unknown factor, finally began to fail.

I have not been able to find a spec for ARC in HDMI 1.4x- 2.0x other than ARC must send 'audio' back to the AVR... no mention of the 'audio' being data, or what the bandwidth of that data might be- not to say that it doesn't exist, I just can't find it. However, the standard for HDMI 2.1x cables is clearly specified, including an expanded version of the ARC function, eARC (enhanced Audio Return Channel).

I think both the RUIPro and Monoprice cables at 40-50' and possibly longer (but untested by me) are great cables IF you don't need the ARC funcion, and hopefully RUIPro will resolve their issue with ARC now that they're getting more feedback. But please bear in mind that both of these cables contain active electronics (with the exception of ARC, and all electronics are subject to failures, but if you need a cable of these lengths, at this time active cables are the only option. You can use an optical audio cable from your TV to your AVR if they support it, but you'll be limited to 5.1 audio only, which may be fine for a lot of people, but personally I want the highest quality audio available.


----------



## jed peters

I have run the Monoprice Slimrun AV HDR cable and gotten full 4k @ 60hz 4:4:4 HDR color over 150' cable.

ARC confirmed NOT working on the optical cable. 

TV is a Sony 940E, back to a Denon Receiver. Sources are Roku Premier Plus and Nvidia Shield. 

Best,

Jed


----------



## jk246

jed peters said:


> I have run the Monoprice Slimrun AV HDR cable and gotten full 4k @ 60hz 4:4:4 HDR color over 150' cable.
> 
> ARC confirmed NOT working on the optical cable.
> 
> TV is a Sony 940E, back to a Denon Receiver. Sources are Roku Premier Plus and Nvidia Shield.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jed


Hey Jed,

Hope you saw my post right above yours- ARC worked fine on mine for about a month or so before ARC became intermittent. I replaced it with a shorter passive cable (actually two shorter cables, about 20' when butted together, now lying across the floor, because they're too short to be run thru the walls), which has been working for about 7 weeks now. I contacted Monoprice about returning the bad cable and received a response saying that someone would be contacting me about a return. I never received a reply, and have emailed them 2 more times since, and have never received any reply. They've blown their reputation with me, I can't trust them anymore.
Hope you're cable continues to work; it's an active cable, but the part that became intermittent were the passive ARC connections, and it was a transmission line failure, not a mechanical connection failure.

RuiPro wants me to test their re-designed cable and I haven't gotten a chance to respond to them yet- I'll post back here once I do.

jk


----------



## Gonzonia

jk246 said:


> Hey Jed,
> 
> Hope you saw my post right above yours- ARC worked fine on mine for about a month or so before ARC became intermittent. I replaced it with a shorter passive cable (actually two shorter cables, about 20' when butted together, now lying across the floor, because they're too short to be run thru the walls), which has been working for about 7 weeks now. I contacted Monoprice about returning the bad cable and received a response saying that someone would be contacting me about a return. I never received a reply, and have emailed them 2 more times since, and have never received any reply. They've blown their reputation with me, I can't trust them anymore.
> Hope you're cable continues to work; it's an active cable, but the part that became intermittent were the passive ARC connections, and it was a transmission line failure, not a mechanical connection failure.
> 
> RuiPro wants me to test their re-designed cable and I haven't gotten a chance to respond to them yet- I'll post back here once I do.
> 
> jk


I'm about to install the Atlona AT-HDR-EX-70-2PS but the couple of reviews on Amazon have me rethinking this (partially because when my house was built they ran cheap cat 5e cables and I'm unsure what's going to happen. The active HDMI cable in there now works great for 4K but not so much for HDR. So I'm considering running a new cable as a backup plan. Skimming this thread I'm considering one of the RuiPro or MonoPrice cables. I probably need 50 ft. 

How fragile are the cables? I'm not confident it will be easy to pull a new cable and I have some concerns about damage possibilities. 

I'm unconcerned about ARC, as nice as it would be to get the 7.1 sound out I'll settle for an 5.1 over the optical out from the TV and just use a balun for that.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'How fragile are the cables? I'm not confident it will be easy to pull a new cable and I have some concerns about damage possibilities' _- always be nice with your cables 

So far no failures (apart from the one the 'jiner' chopped with a saw!!!) with the many RuiPro Hybrid Fibre we have supplied - I can't vouch for how heavy handed folk have been, ideally you don't 'pull' the cable using the HDMI connector!

Joe


----------



## jk246

Gonzonia said:


> How fragile are the cables? I'm not confident it will be easy to pull a new cable and I have some concerns about damage possibilities.


Depends on what you mean by 'fragile', and what you're pulling through. If solid conduit, number of and diameter of bends and conduit increase friction and required pounds of pull. Ribbed flex conduit has less contact surface area and therefor less friction, especially if it's been dry-lubricated and generally doesn't have sharp turns. No conduit (through wall or soffit cavities) is unpredictable. Best practice would be to use snake or a length of (scrap) Cat 5 or 6 cable; run the snake or cable through the conduit (if you have one) and overlap it about 10" with the RUIPro and use plastic electrical tape to wrap them both together (including the HDMI shell), going beyond the connector another 4" or so. this will cause the force used to pull the cable over that section of the cable jacket that is taped to the snake or Cat 5/6 rather than putting stress on the inner conductors or conductor-to-connector junction. Then, gently pull the cable while having someone else feed the opposite end if possible. If you use a Cat5/6 cable, the easy way to get it through the conduit (assuming you have conduit is to tie a ball of string to a big ball of cotton and stick your vacuum cleaner hose on one end of the conduit, and feed the cotton ball (or ball of toilet paper) into the other end of the conduit, then use the string to pull the Cat 5/6 through, following up with the RUIPro (or whatever cable you choose). Go slow and if you feel any resistance, pull back a few feet and try to twist the cable while pulling to clear the obstruction... if you just try to pull harder, you're likely to get the cable jammed and/or damage it.

jk


----------



## Joe Fernand

Good shout with the vacuum - haven’t seen that technique in action.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> Good shout with the vacuum - haven’t seen that technique in action.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ancient Electrician's Secret


----------



## Jerry Bruckheimer Fan

These cables look interesting and seem to be ready for HDMI 2.1

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fibbr-launch-8khdr-ready-56gbps-optical-hdmi-cable-0


----------



## Dave Vaughn

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> These cables look interesting and seem to be ready for HDMI 2.1
> 
> https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fibbr-launch-8khdr-ready-56gbps-optical-hdmi-cable-0


As soon as they are released, I should have one to test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jerry Bruckheimer Fan said:


> These cables look interesting and seem to be ready for HDMI 2.1
> 
> https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fibbr-launch-8khdr-ready-56gbps-optical-hdmi-cable-0


China-based FIBBR must have a great development team being as HDMI 2.1 was finally ratified around October and the final chip designs were sent to the mfrs.

"_said to support transmission speeds up to 56 gigabits per second (Gbps) over distances up to 164 feet (50 meters)_"

I certainly hope that's true but 56Gbps sustained, "up to" 164' sounds almost too good to be true, especially when the original specs were 3M. Some of FIBBR's recent claims on their current cables has been met with issues by some. 

"_Fibbr will also demonstrate its Ultra Pro V2.0 series of 4K/HDR-rated optical HDMI cables, which are certified by the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) to support 4K at 60 frames per second (fps) and speeds up to 18Gbps_." Certification by ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) is interesting being as ISF is not a certification agency per se but consult with various mfrs on setting video standards.


----------



## jk246

*Monoprice Failed Cabernet Cable Return*

I have not been able to return the Monoprice Cabernet Cable that I mentioned earlier in this thread (Post 910) that initially worked with ARC, but then failed (had intermittent audio return dropouts) a few weeks later. After initiating a return request with Monoprice I received an email from them with a Ticket # and it also stated that a 'service representative will review your request and will respond to you shortly'. After not getting any further reply from Monoprice, I contacted them several more times and they never responded. So now I have 2 cables that don't work as advertised and Monoprice has stone-walled me.

Caveat Emptor- buyer beware of Monoprice, they don't stand behind their products.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> China-based FIBBR must have a great development team being as HDMI 2.1 was finally ratified around October and the final chip designs were sent to the mfrs.
> 
> "_said to support transmission speeds up to 56 gigabits per second (Gbps) over distances up to 164 feet (50 meters)_"
> 
> I certainly hope that's true but 56Gbps sustained, "up to" 164' sounds almost too good to be true, especially when the original specs were 3M. Some of FIBBR's recent claims on their current cables has been met with issues by some.
> 
> "_Fibbr will also demonstrate its Ultra Pro V2.0 series of 4K/HDR-rated optical HDMI cables, which are certified by the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) to support 4K at 60 frames per second (fps) and speeds up to 18Gbps_." Certification by ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) is interesting being as ISF is not a certification agency per se but consult with various mfrs on setting video standards.


I sent a message to ISF via their website today:



> Hi.
> 
> On behalf of members of AVS Forums, could you confirm if you are now certifying hardware and running "robust field testing in addition to lab tests". Chinese cable company FIBBR initially made this claim last August (https://www.cepro.com/article/fibbr_fiber_optical_hdmi_cables_cedia) and repeated them this week (https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fibbr-launch-8khdr-ready-56gbps-optical-hdmi-cable-0) but, looking on your site, I can see nothing that talks about this certification process or products that are certified.
> 
> There are a couple of threads at AVS where people come for advice on long distance HDMI solutions. Recently, FIBBR's claims have come to the fore. It would certainly be good to know if ISF is testing and certifying solutions in this area and others!
> 
> Thanks and best regards


It will be interesting to see what they say. I was intrigued to see, in the CE Pro article I quoted from last August, FIBBR actually quoting Joel Silver, yet still there is nothing I could find, on ISF's site or elsewhere, about this certification, although there is a list of "partners and manufacturers", which FIBBR is on.


----------



## Mike_WI

jk246 said:


> I have not been able to return the Monoprice Cabernet Cable that I mentioned earlier in this thread (Post 910) that initially worked with ARC, but then failed (had intermittent audio return dropouts) a few weeks later. After initiating a return request with Monoprice I received an email from them with a Ticket # and it also stated that a 'service representative will review your request and will respond to you shortly'. After not getting any further reply from Monoprice, I contacted them several more times and they never responded. So now I have 2 cables that don't work as advertised and Monoprice has stone-walled me.
> 
> Caveat Emptor- buyer beware of Monoprice, they don't stand behind their products.


I have Monoprice cables.
Bummer to hear that.

Mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> I sent a message to ISF via their website today:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see what they say. I was intrigued to see, in the CE Pro article I quoted from last August, FIBBR actually quoting Joel Silver, yet still there is nothing I could find, on ISF's site or elsewhere, about this certification, although there is a list of "partners and manufacturers", which FIBBR is on.


Thanks jong1. It will be interesting to see what FIBBR's response is. I certainly hope that their claims hold up for most consumers because that would be great.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks jong1. It will be interesting to see what FIBBR's response is. I certainly hope that their claims hold up for most consumers because that would be great.


I sent it to ISF, not FIBBR, but, yes, the reply will be interesting!


----------



## jk246

Mike_WI said:


> I have Monoprice cables.
> Bummer to hear that.
> 
> Mike


Yes, highly disappointing. $80+ dollars down the drain unless I can get CitiBank to exert some pressure on them. Still, I shouldn't have to, just another greedy business.


----------



## Dave Vaughn

jk246 said:


> Yes, highly disappointing. $80+ dollars down the drain unless I can get CitiBank to exert some pressure on them. Still, I shouldn't have to, just another greedy business.


Did someone from Monoprice reach out to you yet? I sent your post to one of my contacts at the company and he said he'd forward it to Customer Service.


----------



## jk246

Dave Vaughn said:


> Did someone from Monoprice reach out to you yet? I sent your post to one of my contacts at the company and he said he'd forward it to Customer Service.


Very thoughtful of you Dave. No, no contact yet, will keep my eyes open though. Last email from them was Oct 24, 2017. I've sent several follow-up emails since, but no reply.

Regards


----------



## paulromi

I have confirmed the Monoprice SlimRun works 4k @ 60hz 4:4:4 HDR as well as the Dtech fibre cable both at 50ft. The monoprice was ordered first, and the Dtech was ordered afterwards and I wanted quick delivery (prime) To my surprise both cables look identical, same housing on the ends and same font for "source" and "display" except the DTech cable has "Dtech" printed on the housing. 

"

the white spot on the monoprice cable on top was caused by the flash on the camera.


----------



## jk246

Dave Vaughn said:


> Did someone from Monoprice reach out to you yet? I sent your post to one of my contacts at the company and he said he'd forward it to Customer Service.


Thank you Dave, I got a couple of emails from Monoprice, looks like RMAs are attached, I haven't had time to execute yet, busy on another project with a deadline, but will attend to this shortly. Thanks for reaching out to them, much appreciated.

jk


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> Gengis Marsell: - do your cables have Black or Silver HDMI Hoods? Have you tried bypassing the AVR (Source direct to Display).
> 
> jk246/Otto - Ruipro Hybrid Cables do Support ARC, though some folk have reported intermittent ARC on the longer cable lengths if you are running 2160p60 at 4:4:4 (which Ruipro are aware of and working on).
> 
> Joe


Hi Joe, do you know if Ruipro ever got 2160p60 4:4:4 ARC working reliably with their hybrids?

jk


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi jk

I've had one person with a 30m cable aiming for DD+ over ARC report intermittent audio drop outs - otherwise it is not something I have had reports about.

My own TV/AVR (LG/Arcam) are so flaky with ARC it is not something I can test too easily unless I disconnect all other Sources from the AVR - when I have tried it I have had no problems using the 10m, 15m and 20m cables (which account for the majority of our sales).

How long is your proposed cable run and will you be running DD+?

Joe


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> Hi jk
> 
> I've had one person with a 30m cable aiming for DD+ over ARC report intermittent audio drop outs - otherwise it is not something I have had reports about.
> 
> My own TV/AVR (LG/Arcam) are so flaky with ARC it is not something I can test too easily unless I disconnect all other Sources from the AVR - when I have tried it I have had no problems using the 10m, 15m and 20m cables (which account for the majority of our sales).
> 
> How long is your proposed cable run and will you be running DD+?
> 
> Joe


15m/50' and yes to DD+, and ATMOS as well, when Denon releases new firmware for my AVR-X7200WA in the next month or so. And to refresh your memory, I also had intermittent audio drop outs with one of the original 50' RUIPro cables (silver metal connector shell); I've noticed RUIPro's photos of their cables now show a dark grey or black shell- wondering if there's any difference in the cable itself now, and if the connector shells are still black, or if this is just a cosmetic change?

Also looking for info/reviews/user reports on Sewell's hybrid fiber optic cable; their ads list "[email protected] 60Hz 4:4:4, HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2", (no more detail than that). Their cable construction exploded diagram is substantially different than that of the other hybrid cables in that it has 7 copper conductors along with 4 fibers- the 7 coppers conductors are listed as being for "non-video information such as hot-plug detection, grounding [the diagram shows one copper conductor used as the drain wire for the metallic foil shield] and +5v power. The fiber strands carry all the video information".

Reports from anyone who has a Sewell cable, or online expert reviews or testing will be appreciated.

jk


----------



## scarabaeus

jk246 said:


> Hi Joe, do you know if Ruipro ever got 2160p60 4:4:4 ARC working reliably with their hybrids?


They have improved their cables, apparently by shielding the secondary (copper) wires. I have tested their latest, after having issues with an earlier version, and it now does ARC flawlessly over 15 meters, even at 192 kHz (Dolby Digital Plus / Atmos).


----------



## jk246

scarabaeus said:


> They have improved their cables, apparently by shielding the secondary (copper) wires. I have tested their latest, after having issues with an earlier version, and it now does ARC flawlessly over 15 meters, even at 192 kHz (Dolby Digital Plus / Atmos).


Thanks for your info scarabaeus- what kind of problem did you have with ARC on your original RUIPro cable? Did your original RUIPros have silver metal connector shells? Do your newer RUIPro cables have black metal shells? 

I had no ARC audio at all with the RUIPro 50' cable, and intermittent dropouts using a Monoprice Cabernet active copper cable after 3 weeks of flawless operation.

jk


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> 15m/50' and yes to DD+, and ATMOS as well, when Denon releases new firmware for my AVR-X7200WA in the next month or so. And to refresh your memory, I also had intermittent audio drop outs with one of the original 50' RUIPro cables (silver metal connector shell); I've noticed RUIPro's photos of their cables now show a dark grey or black shell- wondering if there's any difference in the cable itself now, and if the connector shells are still black, or if this is just a cosmetic change?
> 
> Also looking for info/reviews/user reports on Sewell's hybrid fiber optic cable; their ads list "[email protected] 60Hz 4:4:4, HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2", (no more detail than that). Their cable construction exploded diagram is substantially different than that of the other hybrid cables in that it has 7 copper conductors along with 4 fibers- the 7 coppers conductors are listed as being for "non-video information such as hot-plug detection, grounding [the diagram shows one copper conductor used as the drain wire for the metallic foil shield] and +5v power. The fiber strands carry all the video information".
> 
> Reports from anyone who has a Sewell cable, or online expert reviews or testing will be appreciated.
> 
> jk


Early reports on the Sewell cables here were a mixed bag. Cable diagrams are cool but quite often the specs given are great from a technical standpoint but are beyond what the human eyes and ears can perceive so you're paying for something that you can't appreciate. The Ruipro hybrid fiber cables seem to be the most consistent so far in user satisfaction here.


----------



## scarabaeus

jk246 said:


> Thanks for your info scarabaeus- what kind of problem did you have with ARC on your original RUIPro cable? Did your original RUIPros have silver metal connector shells? Do your newer RUIPro cables have black metal shells?
> 
> I had no ARC audio at all with the RUIPro 50' cable, and intermittent dropouts using a Monoprice Cabernet active copper cable after 3 weeks of flawless operation.
> 
> jk


I had dropouts on the ARC audio with DD+, but it worked fine with DD and PCM. Also, dropouts seemed to be caused by CEC data traffic. See my original posts here:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-29.html#post52735721
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-30.html#post52738361

Don't remember right now if the connector shells differed, I can check tonight. According to Ruipro, they are only selling the improved version now. No interference from CEC commands anymore, very much recommended.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Early reports on the Sewell cables here were a mixed bag. Cable diagrams are cool but quite often the specs given are great from a technical standpoint but are beyond what the human eyes and ears can perceive so you're paying for something that you can't appreciate. The Ruipro hybrid fiber cables seem to be the most consistent so far in user satisfaction here.


Sounding more and more likely that in my initial foray with RUIPro I just got a dud. 

jk


----------



## jong1

jong1 said:


> I sent a message to ISF via their website today:
> ...................
> 
> It will be interesting to see what they say. I was intrigued to see, in the CE Pro article I quoted from last August, FIBBR actually quoting Joel Silver, yet still there is nothing I could find, on ISF's site or elsewhere, about this certification, although there is a list of "partners and manufacturers", which FIBBR is on.


So I got a reply from Joel Silver at ISF:



Joel Silver said:


> Yes - we have restarted HDMI signal path research and testing - our team is now equipped with an HDMI 2.1 capable test bench - we are awaiting the 2.1 CTS like all the other labs - and our new gear will cover our needs out to version 3.1......
> 
> FIBBR, AIM and Tributaries have submitted products that passed 18GB testing - and yes we do quite a bit more than just a metrics scan - repetitive failures in the field have driven us to run lab and field tests - as well as the new need to test AVRs and multiple switchers and DAs for 2.1's 48GB
> 
> We now cover HDMI field tests in ISF sessions - and include fiber termination hands on in the new Level III sessions - we have been advocating conduits for prewiring form many years - those who were paying attention will have easy updates - those who depended on category cable will be disrupting homes and workplaces.....


I tried to get more information from him about the testing regime and the costs involved:



Me said:


> Thanks Joel, ..... Is this is a chargeable service or do you do it proactively for products that you think might be useful or find interesting? Will you test any product if asked by the vendor?





Me said:


> I don't want to make you spend a lot of time on this. But, before updating people, to make sure I am not misunderstanding, it sounds something vendors ask you to do, right? Not something you are doing proactively. Do you produce a specification of what is involved? E.g. What tests do you do? How many cables you test, to be sure of consistent quality? Do you let the vendor handpick the cables or source from regular outlets, Etc? Is there a written report?


Joel did reply to say:



Joel Silver said:


> We do charge fees for lab testing - the new gear is quite an investment....


...but he did not reply with more info on their methods or their results. I think by this point he had spent all the time he was willing to discuss this with some random guy on the internet, which was probably fair enough!

My assumption, I do not know what others think, is that this is not currently an attempt to proactively test a cross-section of the market, but instead something they will do, for a fee, for vendors or for others (e.g. I guess, media) if willing to pay. Unless ISF say more, I would be wary that any testing is likely to have been done with samples hand selected by the vendor and may not necessarily be statistically significant, especially of stock in store.


----------



## StephenBishop

jong1 said:


> So I got a reply from Joel Silver at ISF:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried to get more information from him about the testing regime and the costs involved:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joel did reply to say:
> 
> 
> 
> ...but he did not reply with more info on their methods or their results. I think by this point he had spent all the time he was willing to discuss this with some random guy on the internet, which was probably fair enough!
> 
> My assumption, I do not know what others think, is that this is not currently an attempt to proactively test a cross-section of the market, but instead something they will do, for a fee, for vendors or for others (e.g. I guess, media) if willing to pay. Unless ISF say more, I would be wary that any testing is likely to have been done with samples hand selected by the vendor and may not necessarily be statistically significant, especially of stock in store.


Helpful info on the FIBBR cable, jong1. Thanks for following up with ISF/Joel Silver.

As regards your comment on being wary that any testing is likely to have been done with samples hand selected by the vendor and may not necessarily be statistically significant, do we know if the ATCs do things differently? Do they randomly select cables for testing or do they merely test the cables sent to them by the vendors?


----------



## Joe Fernand

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/testing_policies.aspx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StephenBishop

Thanks. Looks like each vendor self tests a representative sample for HDMI compliance and then self submits to the ATCs for testing. No proactive or random selection of samples by the ATCs.


----------



## jk246

*ARC results from recently received RUIPro cables*



scarabaeus said:


> I had dropouts on the ARC audio with DD+, but it worked fine with DD and PCM. Also, dropouts seemed to be caused by CEC data traffic. See my original posts here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-29.html#post52735721
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-30.html#post52738361
> 
> Don't remember right now if the connector shells differed, I can check tonight. According to Ruipro, they are only selling the improved version now. No interference from CEC commands anymore, very much recommended.


I received 2 more RUIPro 15 meter cables; unlike the first one I received, these both work with ARC from LG OLEDC7 on TV's internal tuner (unlike the first RUIPro which had no ARC at all- I now think the original was just a bad cable. HOWEVER both of the cables I just received have audio dropouts when streaming from the LG OLEDC7 Netflix app, which has good Dolby Surround when listening to the movie's preview audio (what you get when you highlight a movie in the list before actually playing it), but when you actually watch the movie and plays in either Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Atmos I have periodic audio dropouts; it seems the dropouts occur more often with Dolby Digital Plus (fairly regularly every 4 to 6 seconds) and less often with Dolby Atmos (maybe 10 or so seconds in between dropouts, sometimes more); although this could also be due to the different natures of the samples I was listening to.

This sounds very similar to the results that scarabaeus was getting with his older RUIPro cables before having them replaced with newer ones; I can't see any difference between the original RUIPro I had and the two I just received- they look like they're the same diameter (although I am going by memory since I returned the original cable months ago), the connector shells are the same silver-color for all the cables I've received, and the box looks the same (and has no part number on it for me to cross-check with RUIPro).

scarabaeus, if you read this could you please take a look at the connector shells on your new cable and tell me if they are still silver on the newer cables? Do you see any difference in the diameter of the newer, shielded cable vs the older, unshielded cable? Thanks for any help you can give in identifying any differences, or even the boxes they came in.

jk


----------



## scarabaeus

jk246 said:


> scarabaeus, if you read this could you please take a look at the connector shells on your new cable and tell me if they are still silver on the newer cables? Do you see any difference in the diameter of the newer, shielded cable vs the older, unshielded cable? Thanks for any help you can give in identifying any differences, or even the boxes they came in.


They both have the metal silver shells, and the packaging boxes looked the same, too AFAICR (I no longer have the first box). One difference I noticed is that the labeling on the shell is greyish on the older one, and white on the newer one. The cable diameter seems to be the same.


----------



## jk246

scarabaeus said:


> They both have the metal silver shells, and the packaging boxes looked the same, too AFAICR (I no longer have the first box). One difference I noticed is that the labeling on the shell is greyish on the older one, and white on the newer one. The cable diameter seems to be the same.


Thanks for that info scarabaeus; the cables just received have white lettering on them, so should be the latest, at least that variable is cleared up. Unfortunately, I'm not getting the same ARC results you did ( w/ Denon AVR-X7200WA ), although have had success with some copper conductor cables.


----------



## jk246

*READ THIS Before you buy Monoprice cables...*



Dave Vaughn said:


> Did someone from Monoprice reach out to you yet? I sent your post to one of my contacts at the company and he said he'd forward it to Customer Service.


Last year I bought a couple of Cabernet 40' active cables from Monoprice. After a short period of time I found that the ARC function of the cables suffered from audio dropouts. I went on the Monoprice website and filled out a Returns request for the 2 cables. I received an email a couple of weeks later saying that someone from the Returns dept would contact me. After not hearing from them for some time I tried several more times to reach out to the Returns department and got no further response.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread, and Dave Vaughn saw my post and reached out to someone at Monoprice and I got a reply a couple of days later (thank you Dave). I packaged up the cables and shipped them back to Monoprice and received confirmation that they received them on February 2. Since then I've been waiting to hear from Monoprice or see the refund applied to my credit card, and nothing happened. I called up customer service today, and what I was told has made me resolve to never do business with this company again.

The customer service rep told me that I had received the store credit that I requested and that Monoprice had sent me an email notifying me of that (I requested a refund, not a store credit, and I never received any email from Monoprice; (during the conversation she told me several times I had requested a store credit in spite of the fact that I kept telling her I had not). When I asked why I had not received a refund, she said she would have to talk to someone to find out. When she returned, she told me that I had not requested a refund within 30 days (which was in fact due to their lack of response to my initial requests), and that after 30 days their "lifetime guarantee" only covers replacing the cable (of their other two active cables, I tested a HOSS cable which had no ARC audio, and a DynamicView cable which had similar audio dropouts which were not apparent for the first week or two I had them, possibly due to aging, or possibly due to them being short duration, long interval between events... sometimes upwards of a minute between dropouts- since then I've gone back to a 20' passive cable that has worked perfectly for a month without a blip, with everything I've thrown at it). 

So, apparently, the "lifetime guarantee" gives me the option to replace one cable that does not perform one of it's advertised functions (the very one I bought the cable for in the first place) with either of two other cables that likewise do not perform the same advertised function.

Oh, and I was told that they had not received any of my emails, even though they somehow were able to email me last year and tell me that someone would be contacting me soon!!! So, it appears that the email works in both directions, but only when Monoprice wants it to.

By now I guess you can figure out why I'm a little bit 'chaffed'. Some of these cables didn't show any sign of problems for a week or two, and 4 cables (2 Cabernets, 1 Hoss, and 1 DymamicView)- 4 out of 4 cables all failed the ARC function; throw this in with what appears to be stalling their response to get me past the 30 day refund period, and 'store credit' (I don't even have an account there, I used guest checkout) and the runaround... I'm done with them.

Caveat Emptor...


----------



## sid369

Hi all, 

I am new to projectors and bought my first 4k projector and now running into some issues. I will be using my LG sj9 atmos soundbar to connect to the projector and the apple tv 4k will be connected to the soundbar. The apple tv to soundbar will use a shorter cable, so no issue there, but I will need a longer cable 35 feet or so to go from the soundbar to the projector which will be at the back of the room. I ordered sewel cable, but not sure if it it work or not with my set up.

Any recommendation of what cable will work with my set up.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sid369 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new to projectors and bought my first 4k projector and now running into some issues. I will be using my LG sj9 atmos soundbar to connect to the projector and the apple tv 4k will be connected to the soundbar. The apple tv to soundbar will use a shorter cable, so no issue there, but I will need a longer cable 35 feet or so to go from the soundbar to the projector which will be at the back of the room. I ordered sewel cable, but not sure if it it work or not with my set up.
> 
> Any recommendation of what cable will work with my set up.


At 35', there are no guarantees. The Sewell may work but there have been quite a few negative reports with them. There is more to a successful connection than just the cable, which is basically only a data pipe. Current HDMI chipsets (which are difficult at this point in time to determine), bend radius, and how the cable is setup all play a factor in a successful run. Unless you have a top-end, brand new soundbar, the chances of it having current HDMI chipsets (and we're talking HDMI 2.0b, not 2.1) are pretty slim. A receiver would be a much better choice. All you can do is try the cable and see if it works to your satisfaction. You may get lucky and have the cable work. At 35' I'm assuming you're running your cable in a conduit if it's an in-wall installation.


----------



## sid369

Otto Pylot said:


> At 35', there are no guarantees. The Sewell may work but there have been quite a few negative reports with them. There is more to a successful connection than just the cable, which is basically only a data pipe. Current HDMI chipsets (which are difficult at this point in time to determine), bend radius, and how the cable is setup all play a factor in a successful run. Unless you have a top-end, brand new soundbar, the chances of it having current HDMI chipsets (and we're talking HDMI 2.0b, not 2.1) are pretty slim. A receiver would be a much better choice. All you can do is try the cable and see if it works to your satisfaction. You may get lucky and have the cable work. At 35' I'm assuming you're running your cable in a conduit if it's an in-wall installation.


I plan on using it with my LG sj9 atmos soundbar, it's an unfinished basement, so no walls to worry about, it will go across the floor joist on the ceiling and then come down the wall into the projector on one end and the soundbar on the other end.

I may just run it across the floor as that would bring the length down to under 25 feet.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sid369 said:


> I plan on using it with my LG sj9 atmos soundbar, it's an unfinished basement, so no walls to worry about, it will go across the floor joist on the ceiling and then come down the wall into the projector on one end and the soundbar on the other end.
> 
> I may just run it across the floor as that would bring the length down to under 25 feet.


Be mindful of the bend radius, even if installed outside of the wall. I'd run the entire 35' cable on the floor first and thoroughly test it out before final installation, just in case. If it works on the floor, but not once installed on the ceiling, then it's probably too sharp of a bend radius.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'I may just run it across the floor as that would bring the length down to under 25 feet.'_ - always best to take cables away from areas where they are likely to be trodden on! At 25' you are getting close to where many 'High Speed' copper cable designs can struggle with UHD; if you were to go with Fibre or Hybrid Fibre it makes no real difference if you have a 25' or 35' cable.

Joe


----------



## sid369

Joe Fernand said:


> _'I may just run it across the floor as that would bring the length down to under 25 feet.'_ - always best to take cables away from areas where they are likely to be trodden on! At 25' you are getting close to where many 'High Speed' copper cable designs can struggle with UHD; if you were to go with Fibre or Hybrid Fibre it makes no real difference if you have a 25' or 35' cable.
> 
> Joe


So upon remeasuring, running across the floor will be under 20 feet. I tested the sewel 25 feet and returning them, as the blank screen is longer, not sure if apple tv 4k cec is not working due to the cable, I also get a half screen display. when I unplug and plug it back it goes back to normal.

Someone recommended a 25 feet Monoprice cable - https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105 

What do you guys think? is this a good cable? or should I get the RuiPro 10m (33 feet HDMI cable)?


----------



## Otto Pylot

sid369 said:


> So upon remeasuring, running across the floor will be under 20 feet. I tested the sewel 25 feet and returning them, as the blank screen is longer, not sure if apple tv 4k cec is not working due to the cable, I also get a half screen display. when I unplug and plug it back it goes back to normal.
> 
> Someone recommended a 25 feet Monoprice cable - https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105
> 
> What do you guys think? is this a good cable? or should I get the RuiPro 10m (33 feet HDMI cable)?


CEC is not necessarily a cable issue. CEC is very problematic cross platform because the protocols are not standardized so the mfrs are free to implement whichever ones they want to do don't judge a cable by CEC alone. There are no real fixes other than using a programmable remote like a Harmony. Focus more on pq to decide on whether the cable is working or not.


----------



## jk246

*RUIPro Cables*

This is a follow-up to my previous post#945 about two 15 meter RUIPro cables. As I mentioned in that post, I had issues with periodic ARC audio dropouts which seem to be related to the audio bandwith (read more in post#945). As far as operation in the forward direction (source-to-sink) the cables seemed to work fine.

I recently did some further testing using my Oppo UDP 203 directly connected to my LG OLED 65-C7 with several UHD discs that feature DolbyVision. 

The Oppo settings are:
HDR Setting - Auto
Output Resolution - Custom
Custom Resolution - UHD Auto
Color Space - Auto
Color Depth - Auto

The LG OLED settings are:
General => HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color => HDMI (x) => On

When I tested the first RUIPro cable, I got this on-screen message:
This player is not connected to a 4k Ultra HD TV.
This Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc was mastered for optimal viewing on a 4k Ultra HD TV tha supports High Dynamic Range (HDR). If you do not have an HDR compatible display, video playback may vary based on your player and TV's capabilities. Please insert the Blu-ray Disc for optimal viewing.

This was surprising, considering that both the Oppo and the LG definitely have the capability needed, and I'd watched this disc previously in it's full glory and knew it wasn't defective.

I tried a different disc for conformation and got this on-screen message:
For optimal picture quality, connect your 4k Ultra HD Blu-ray Player to a Television that supports 4k Ultra HD with High Dynamic Range (HDR)

Same concept, different message. Apparently the error message itself originates from the disc being played.

I swapped out the first RUIPro cable with the second one. This time both discs played correctly with the Oppo upscaling the color space & resolution:

Media Information:

Resolution: 3840x2160
Frame Rate: 23.976p
HDR Format: BDMV HDR
Color Space: BT2020 YCbCr 4:2:0 10bit
Video Codec: HEVC
Current Bit Rate: 70ish Mbps (varies)
Maximum Luminance: 10000 nits
Minimum Luminance: 0.005 nits
Audio Language: English
Audio Format: Dolby TrueHD 7.1ch 48kHz
Channel Position: FL/FR, LFE, C SL/SR, SBL/SBR
Audio Bit Rate: 5.2ish Mbps (varies)
Video Bit Rate: 65ish Mbps (varies)


HDMI (Main) Output Information

Resolution: 3840x2160
Frame Rate: 23.976p
HDR Format: HDR
Color Space: BT2020 YCnCr 4:4:4 12bit
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Audio Format:  Bitstream 68k

I get the same results using a MonoPrice 20' Certified passive cable.

To reiterate, this is the Oppo going directly to the LG, Oppo upscaling to Deep Color - nothing in-between. When using the same settings, but sending the Oppo through my Denon AVR-X7200-WA (in pass-thru mode) to the LG using the MonoPrice 20' Certified cable (because it does ARC perfectly) everything works as well.

I do like RUIPro-the-company and think they are dedicated to getting things right, so don't think this post is a slam. Thorough testing and detailed reports do help manufacturers improve their products, and it is in that spirit that I am posting my results.

jk


----------



## tomtastic

I've been using Kabel Direct from Amazon 30ft, been getting intermittent white fuzz and flashing image at times. It seems to go away for awhile when I change inputs and back. Haven't had any issues with that brand with 25ft or less but 30 is giving me issues. When you have a cable that typically has problems what are you guys seeing for results? I'm pretty sure it's the cable that's wrong, I can switch to projector from same sources and I never have any issues and that one is 25ft same brand.


----------



## alebonau

some good news that we are getting closer to the magic 10m 32ft mark with premium certified hdmi cables

with mono price now having a 30ft... ie 9m premium certified cable

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=32991&seq=1&format=2

surely in good time they will get to the 10m (32ft) mark ! that a lot of people need for projector runs ...


----------



## coxy2416

alebonau said:


> some good news that we are getting closer to the magic 10m 32ft mark with premium certified hdmi cables
> 
> with mono price now having a 30ft... ie 9m premium certified cable
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=32991&seq=1&format=2
> 
> surely in good time they will get to the 10m (32ft) mark ! that a lot of people need for projector runs ...


This Monoprice Fiber Optic cable isn't cheap or certified but it will run anything that you throw at it without issue!

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21568&seq=1&format=2


----------



## alebonau

coxy2416 said:


> This Monoprice Fiber Optic cable isn't cheap or certified but it will run anything that you throw at it without issue!
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21568&seq=1&format=2


got something I need that works  in conventional old school heavy gauge passive hdmi,

fibre indeed isnt cheap... but I suspect for the more typical shorter lengths the premium certified will slowly catch up 

I wonder if any other cable makers bar mono price are pushing the boundary with premium certified when comes to length ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> got something I need that works  in conventional old school heavy gauge passive hdmi,
> 
> fibre indeed isnt cheap... but I suspect for the more typical shorter lengths the premium certified will slowly catch up
> 
> I wonder if any other cable makers bar mono price are pushing the boundary with premium certified when comes to length ?



To belong to an ATC testing program isn't cheap, and I suspect that with all of the issues that have been reported with 4k HDR over 20' that some of the cable mfrs are choosing to bite the bullet, contract with an ATC, and push the 25' boundary in order to sell more cables at a reasonable price. The game will change again once HDMI 2.1 becomes commonplace and we'll start this "stuff" all over again.


----------



## bluechunks

*Well, 3rd time is the charm.*

When I upgraded the system a while back to 4K I ended up with the 50' Celerity fiber-optic to enable 60Hz HDR from a Roku Ultra. At some point I after a year I started getting weird "flashes" on the display that appeared to be cable related so I replaced the Celerity with a 50' Monoprice fiber-optic cable. All was well until I replaced the Roku with a 4K Apple TV.

With the Monoprice cable everything was great @ 4K HDR 4:2:2 60Hz but 4K 60Hz Dolby Vision would cause a flicker that appeared similar to the one I had with the Celerity cable. This confused me mostly because everything was fine at native frame rates which made it look like a bandwidth problem but 4K HDR 60Hz 4:2:2 is at the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 limit and that worked fine.

Unable to determine if the issue was the display, AVR, ATV, or cable I simply lived with it since I prefer native frame rate and color-space anyway. Unfortunately, native is not great for the rest of the family with frequent user interface blackouts during format changes.

This led me to try the Ruipro 15M fiber-optic and am pleased that 4K DV 60Hz now works great on my system.

*tl;dr* Another vote for Ruipro.


----------



## SLYDoggie

*6-Ft Minimum HDMI Cables?*

I have followed this thread due to having a ceiling mounted projector in my Home Theater. I realize that this is a bit off topic, well actually the exact opposite of the topic, but I have been seeing some claims recently that you shouldn't use anything shorter than a 6' HDMI cable in a full speed 18Gbps 4K 60FPS setup. Primarily I'm seeing this on the HDFury Linker thread. Basically the claim is that you should not use anything shorter than 6' to connect any equipment... even if it could be connected with a 1' or 3' cable.



I know there are a lot of smart cable folk on this thread and I'm wondering if this really has any merit. I have several 1' and 3' Monoprice cables in my setup.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ I'm not sure how accurate of a statement that is. There are countless iterations of HTS setups with just as many variations of hardware and HDMI chipset versions. If you have easy access to your cabling, then just try a shorter Premium High Speed HDMI cable (ATC certified, which will come with a QR code for authenticity). If it works as expected, you have your answer for your system. If you're uncertain, just use a 6' cable if you have room to install and test it keeping in mind bend radius and strain on the HDMI input.


----------



## TrendSetterX

SLYDoggie said:


> I have followed this thread due to having a ceiling mounted projector in my Home Theater. I realize that this is a bit off topic, well actually the exact opposite of the topic, but I have been seeing some claims recently that you shouldn't use anything shorter than a 6' HDMI cable in a full speed 18Gbps 4K 60FPS setup. Primarily I'm seeing this on the HDFury Linker thread. Basically the claim is that you should not use anything shorter than 6' to connect any equipment... even if it could be connected with a 1' or 3' cable.
> 
> 
> 
> I know there are a lot of smart cable folk on this thread and I'm wondering if this really has any merit. I have several 1' and 3' Monoprice cables in my setup.


HDCP handshaking assumes (and requires) a certain amount of noise in the signal. Too “pure” of a signal and HDCP may fail.


----------



## Mr.G

TrendSetterX said:


> HDCP handshaking assumes (and requires) a certain amount of noise in the signal. Too “pure” of a signal and HDCP may fail.


interesting theory. I use 3 footers with my Panasonic UB820, Apple TV 4K, Sony X800 and Roku Premiere+, all 4K/UHD devices fed into my Denon X2300 AVR. All the HDMI cables are Monoprice ATC certified - QR code for authenticity. Have never had an issue. As Otto Pylot says - it depends.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> interesting theory. I use 3 footers with my Panasonic UB820, Apple TV 4K, Sony X800 and Roku Premiere+, all 4K/UHD devices fed into my Denon X2300 AVR. All the HDMI cables are Monoprice ATC certified - QR code for authenticity. Have never had an issue. As Otto Pylot says - it depends.


Yeah, I've heard that there is supposedly a limit on how short an HDMI cable can be but I've never seen any real world verification of that. If that is the case, then HDMI 2.1 is in trouble because the current maximum length for full compliance is 2-3m (6' to 9').


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, I've heard that there is supposedly a limit on how short an HDMI cable can be but I've never seen any real world verification of that. If that is the case, then HDMI 2.1 is in trouble because the current maximum length for full compliance is 2-3m (6' to 9').


Current HDCP rev is 2.2 . HDCP 2.3 will be used with HDMI 2.2 . Also, keep in mind that HDMI 2.2 devices will more than likely take advantage of the new compression schemes available which means support for much longer cables than the current rev.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Current HDCP rev is 2.2 . HDCP 2.3 will be used with HDMI 2.2 . Also, keep in mind that HDMI 2.2 devices will more than likely take advantage of the new compression schemes available which means support for much longer cables than the current rev.


HDMI 2.1 will just start coming out in consumer devices by the end of this year/early next year. HDMI 2.2/HDCP 2.3 hasn't even been ratified yet so I wouldn't even worry about that, unless it's a firmware upgrade in which case the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are being installed now are already configured for an HDMI 2.2 upgrade.


----------



## Adam Webster

Question for you guys; I have an approx 35' run from my receiver to the TV. i have had some issues with 4k and HDR. I believe i need to upgrade the cable. After reading a lot here, it looks like Ruipro fiber is my best bet. I also saw a Liberty fiber DL-HFC that is 21gbps. im not sure if the liberty supports ARC but is there a clear winner there? The cable goes up into the drop ceiling and then across its a pretty straight shot. thanks guys!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Adam Webster said:


> Question for you guys; I have an approx 35' run from my receiver to the TV. i have had some issues with 4k and HDR. I believe i need to upgrade the cable. After reading a lot here, it looks like Ruipro fiber is my best bet. I also saw a Liberty fiber DL-HFC that is 21gbps. im not sure if the liberty supports ARC but is there a clear winner there? The cable goes up into the drop ceiling and then across its a pretty straight shot. thanks guys!


21 Gbps is an odd number and highly questionable. It would be interesting to know how they verified that. ARC for 4k HDR is difficult for almost any cable at that distance. Some work and some don't, regardless of mfr claims, so you take your chances. No guarantees. Ruipro hybrid fiber cables have been getting very positive reports from the users here on AVS. I've never heard of Liberty but that doesn't mean much. 

As long as you can easily pull the cable, and be mindful of bend radius you should be ok for 4k HDR (but not necessarily ARC).


----------



## jong1

It's possibly worth adding that HDMI 2.0 will NEVER need more than 18Gbps and all HDMI 2.1 modes not in HDMI 2.0 will need considerably more than 21Gbps so, even if true, there is zero benefit to having a 21Gbps cable. All that matters is if the cable works reliably at 18Gbps plus ARC if that matters.


----------



## jk246

Adam Webster said:


> Question for you guys; I have an approx 35' run from my receiver to the TV. i have had some issues with 4k and HDR. I believe i need to upgrade the cable. After reading a lot here, it looks like Ruipro fiber is my best bet. I also saw a Liberty fiber DL-HFC that is 21gbps. im not sure if the liberty supports ARC but is there a clear winner there? The cable goes up into the drop ceiling and then across its a pretty straight shot. thanks guys!


I have had 4 different RUIPro 15m cables, 2 each of gen 1 and gen 2. One did not work at all with ARC (zero audio) and the other three had periodic regular audio dropouts, the spacing of which varied with the complexity of the audio (using LG OLED65C7P-U and Denon AVR-X7200WA). The video has never been an issue with these cables, and works flawlessly, however the video is the only part of the signal path which is optical... the ARC path is small-gauge copper wire, and that's where the problem lies. Others have reported the ARC dropouts in this and other threads.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> It's possibly worth adding that HDMI 2.0 will NEVER need more than 18Gbps and all HDMI 2.1 modes not in HDMI 2.0 will need considerably more than 21Gbps so, even if true, there is zero benefit to having a 21Gbps cable. All that matters is if the cable works reliably at 18Gbps plus ARC if that matters.


Yep. HDMI 2.0b needs 18Gbps for full compliance. HDMI 2.1 will need 48Gbps for full compliance. Certification is at 18Gbps and 48Gbps (provided a standardized certification program can be created at 48Gbps for consumer use). Anything else in-between is pure marketing for the general public.

Reliable ARC at longer lengths with a hybrid fiber cable is sketchy at best. eARC, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 protocol, will take advantage of the unused ethernet channel in current HDMI chipsets/cables. However, for it to work, all of your HDMI connected devices will probably have to have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets as well.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. HDMI 2.0b needs 18Gbps for full compliance. HDMI 2.1 will need 48Gbps for full compliance. Certification is at 18Gbps and 48Gbps (provided a standardized certification program can be created at 48Gbps for consumer use). Anything else in-between is pure marketing for the general public.
> 
> Reliable ARC at longer lengths with a hybrid fiber cable is sketchy at best. eARC, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 protocol, will take advantage of the unused ethernet channel in current HDMI chipsets/cables. However, for it to work, all of your HDMI connected devices will probably have to have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets as well.


Otto, the problem with current optical cable designs is that the silicon is designed for unidirectional signaling. I don't think that the 'unused ethernet channel' conductors even exists, although even if they do their performance would be seriously degraded by a lack of impedance controlled twisted pairs for the ethernet channel in the optical cables, at least in the RUIPro cables... I can't speak for other optical cables but they mostly or all appear to use the same optical cable when you look at the tech descriptions of the cable itself. The silicon will have to be completely redesigned to provide optical return over the ethernet path with transceivers at both ends to replace the current copper-to-optical converter/transmitter at the sending end and optical-to-copper converter/receiver at the receiving end. The current design may just be a result of the fact that ARC was/is considered a relatively small niche in the overall HDMI cable marketplace (no matter how important we THINK we are) that the manufacturers felt that it wasn't worth adding to the already high cost of optical HDMI cables for the small percentage it served. When you look at the length of this thread and compare it to the length of some of the AVR threads you get an idea of what I'm talking about, especially when you concatenate all of the AVR threads together to reflect the entire AVR marketplace with this one thread which is the entire long HDMI cable marketplace. The complexity of the product doesn't directly translate into it's cost... an nvidia GTX1080Ti graphics card with 3500 CUDA cores, billions (literally) of transistors, an immensely complicated power supply and cooling system on a circuit board with precision tolerances costs $850.... and a Samsung 870 m.2 500Gb storage device that has an astronomically simpler physical design and costs (on sale) $200... when you look at the design & parts cost of each vs the cost to the consumer, it makes no sense. The Samsung's circuit board literally costs them pennies, and the silicon is far less complex than that in the nvidia graphics card which also has the additional costs of far more circuitry, cooling, interconnection, shipping costs.... the ratio is so far off it's mind boggling. In the end, the cost of a product largely boils down to how big the market is, and how much it's willing to spend.


----------



## TrendSetterX

jk246 said:


> Otto, the problem with current optical cable designs is that the silicon is designed for unidirectional signaling. I don't think that the 'unused ethernet channel' conductors even exists, although even if they do their performance would be seriously degraded by a lack of impedance controlled twisted pairs for the ethernet channel in the optical cables, at least in the RUIPro cables... I can't speak for other optical cables but they mostly or all appear to use the same optical cable when you look at the tech descriptions of the cable itself. The silicon will have to be completely redesigned to provide optical return over the ethernet path with transceivers at both ends to replace the current copper-to-optical converter/transmitter at the sending end and optical-to-copper converter/receiver at the receiving end. The current design may just be a result of the fact that ARC was/is considered a relatively small niche in the overall HDMI cable marketplace (no matter how important we THINK we are) that the manufacturers felt that it wasn't worth adding to the already high cost of optical HDMI cables for the small percentage it served. When you look at the length of this thread and compare it to the length of some of the AVR threads you get an idea of what I'm talking about, especially when you concatenate all of the AVR threads together to reflect the entire AVR marketplace with this one thread which is the entire long HDMI cable marketplace. The complexity of the product doesn't directly translate into it's cost... an nvidia GTX1080Ti graphics card with 3500 CUDA cores, billions (literally) of transistors, an immensely complicated power supply and cooling system on a circuit board with precision tolerances costs $850.... and a Samsung 870 m.2 500Gb storage device that has an astronomically simpler physical design and costs (on sale) $200... when you look at the design & parts cost of each vs the cost to the consumer, it makes no sense. The Samsung's circuit board literally costs them pennies, and the silicon is far less complex than that in the nvidia graphics card which also has the additional costs of far more circuitry, cooling, interconnection, shipping costs.... the ratio is so far off it's mind boggling. In the end, the cost of a product largely boils down to how big the market is, and how much it's willing to spend.


Thats the difference between hybrid and non-hybrid fiber. Hybrid includes copper return conductor(s).


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. HDMI with ethernet is an HDMI protocol set that was never embraced by the industry so while the cable mfrs love to advertise their cables with that "feature", it's totally meaningless. However, HDMI 2.1 is going to take that ethernet channel (copper wire) and use it for eARC whether the new cables are fiber (hybrid, with a copper connector) or a pure copper-based cable. Personally I think ARC or eARC is still going to be problematic over long distances.


----------



## Spizz

Hi i see a lot of people recommending RuiPro but how about Celerity UFO? Apparently they will support 2.1 when released and all you need to do is change the ends? Looking at my options.


----------



## jk246

TrendSetterX said:


> Thats the difference between hybrid and non-hybrid fiber. Hybrid includes copper return conductor(s).


I'm not quite sure how you missed this but my post was about hybrid fiber cables- any time you have ARC in an optical cable at this point you're talking about a hybrid cable; and the copper conductors in the current crop of hybrid fiber cables, the copper conductors are incapable of delivering the ARC signal reliably on the receiving end of the cable on all of the 15 meter RUIPro gen 1 and gen 2 cables I've tested.


----------



## bluechunks

Spizz said:


> Hi i see a lot of people recommending RuiPro but how about Celerity UFO? Apparently they will support 2.1 when released and all you need to do is change the ends? Looking at my options.


IMHO, it depends on your current needs.

I’ve owned both and replaced the Celerity because I was having issues with 4K Dolby Vision @ 60Hz sourced from an Apple TV via my AVR. All other video formats and frame rates worked well.

There have been mixed reports from others that claim ARC also works better with RuiPro but I don’t use ARC so I can’t comment.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. HDMI with ethernet is an HDMI protocol set that was never embraced by the industry so while the cable mfrs love to advertise their cables with that "feature", it's totally meaningless. However, HDMI 2.1 is going to take that ethernet channel (copper wire) and use it for eARC whether the new cables are fiber (hybrid, with a copper connector) or a pure copper-based cable. Personally I think ARC or eARC is still going to be problematic over long distances.


Agreed. But you have to think about the target. The goal with eARC would be to match the distance it will reliably work with the distance that standard certified cable's video signals will work, which at this point is about 20-25 feet with HDMI 2.0/2.0b which has a transmission bandwidth of 18Gbps. HDMI 2.1 has a transmission bandwidth of 48Gbps (approx 2.6x HDMI 2.0b), and the physics of copper cable will remain the same, which means the max length for a copper cable will be much shorter with HDMI 2.1. The demand for optical cables quite likely will go up as a result because the definition of a 'long' cable becomes a much shorter length, and they'll have to be bi-directional optical if they expect eARC to work over long distances; self-equalized active copper cables could also be an alternative for long cables if the manufacturers can resolve their reliability issues and likewise make them bi-directional active designs.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^^ Possibly. But like anything with HDMI, the theory is fine, but until HDMI 2.1 is fully deployed with the newest chipsets in devices, and in the consumers hands, it's all theory until tested in real life situations (consumer's homes).


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^^^ Possibly. But like anything with HDMI, the theory is fine, but until HDMI 2.1 is fully deployed with the newest chipsets in devices, and in the consumers hands, it's all theory until tested in real life situations (consumer's homes).


A lot of what is said about HDMI 2.1 is speculative, but the physics of of transmission line performance are not. There is not a lot of detailed technical information available about HDMI 2.1, even by the people that issued and license the specification; the only thing that they've release to date are a press release and a PowerPoint Presentation "Spec Overview", which is not even a specification, but rather 'talking points'. I can't even find any leaked documents, which gives you an idea of just how far away we are from implementation.

HDMI 2.1 and the HDMI Cable: an Early Look
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/what-about-hdmi-2.1.htm


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. HDMI with ethernet is an HDMI protocol set that was never embraced by the industry so while the cable mfrs love to advertise their cables with that "feature", it's totally meaningless. However, HDMI 2.1 is going to take that ethernet channel (copper wire) and use it for eARC whether the new cables are fiber (hybrid, with a copper connector) or a pure copper-based cable. Personally I think ARC or eARC is still going to be problematic over long distances.


What conductors did you think ARC uses? Pin 14 and pin 19 were originally reserved for Utility/HEAC from HDMI 1.0-1.3a, but have been optional for HMDI Ethernet Channel and Audio Return Channel ever since HDMI 1.4 and above (with ground for these being pin 17). The only thing that has changed is that they are no longer specified as being 'optional'.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> A lot of what is said about HDMI 2.1 is speculative, but the physics of of transmission line performance are not. There is not a lot of detailed technical information available about HDMI 2.1, even by the people that issued and license the specification; the only thing that they've release to date are a press release and a PowerPoint Presentation "Spec Overview", which is not even a specification, but rather 'talking points'. I can't even find any leaked documents, which gives you an idea of just how far away we are from implementation.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 and the HDMI Cable: an Early Look
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/what-about-hdmi-2.1.htm


Speculative or not, the final specs for HDMI 2.1 were ratified in late November/early December with the final design specs being sent to the chip mfrs around Feb. I think. So whatever HDMI.org deems important for HDMI 2.1, those designs are being incorporated into the first gen of HDMI 2.1 chips. I've even heard that the chipsets will be designed with the ability to be firmware updated to the latest protocols once they are ready for full compliance. However, that may be device mfr specific. I still want to know how they are going to get around the initial cable distance limitation for fully compliant 48Gbps. I really dislike HDMI but it's what we are stuck with. There is going to be lots of market-spin come the holiday season with new devices coming out that are "HDMI 2.1 ready.." or "HDMI 2.1 compatible.." ad naseum. Personally I don't care about HDMI 2.1 but there are lots of folks, mostly the ones who do not come here, that will be more than willing to pluck down big cash for the latest in HDMI technology, not knowing what they are really getting.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> What conductors did you think ARC uses? Pin 14 and pin 19 were originally reserved for Utility/HEAC from HDMI 1.0-1.3a, but have been optional for HMDI Ethernet Channel and Audio Return Channel ever since HDMI 1.4 and above (with ground for these being pin 17). The only thing that has changed is that they are no longer specified as being 'optional'.


The HDMI spec for ethernet/ARC is fine. But the device mfrs did not consider ethernet necessary so they concentrated on ARC and did not build in ethernet functionality via HDMI. Whether eARC will take advantage of that "unused channel" is not real clear but from what I've heard by utilizing whatever was designed for ethernet will make ARC more robust so that distances will be greater and so will the audio that it can carry.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> The HDMI spec for ethernet/ARC is fine. But the device mfrs did not consider ethernet necessary so they concentrated on ARC and did not build in ethernet functionality via HDMI. Whether eARC will take advantage of that "unused channel" is not real clear but from what I've heard by utilizing whatever was designed for ethernet will make ARC more robust so that distances will be greater and so will the audio that it can carry.





Otto Pylot said:


> However, HDMI 2.1 is going to take that ethernet channel (copper wire) and use it for eARC whether the new cables are fiber (hybrid, with a copper connector) or a pure copper-based cable.


Lets be clear, what you brought up when you referred to the 'ethernet channel' was the copper wire (and presumably the pins that it's connected to, since there are no other available pins in the HDMI connector). Everything beyond that at both ends of the connector will have to be redesigned to deal with the large increase in bandwidth of both the video and audio components, i.e. new line drivers/receivers for video as well as completely new circuit design for the increased bandwidth and multiformat support for eARC, that's a given.

What I've heard repeated many times in many places is this 'sales-speak' about how 'eARC is going to take advantage the (unused) Ethernet channel, like it's something new...' when the only thing it's going to do is standardize the use of the pins which were optionally unused by Ethernet but which much wider use was made of by ARC for a newer, much better (and in my personal opinion, much needed) replacement for ARC.

But as you can read in the article I posted the link to, even one of the best cable manufacturers acknowledges that it's going to be a struggle to provide the cables needed to make HDMI 2.1 work reliably, and that's the first step. 

BTW, Samsung may be the first to have HDMI 2.1 in a product when they release their 8k QLED, expected later this year... with no mass 8k content available, no certification authority for HDMI 2.1 cables, their focus on the quality of the upscaler in this product due to the lack of software, and the chilly reception that QLED has received, it seems like the desperate act of trying to recover some of their QLED development costs before that ship sinks.

Peace, brother.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Speculative or not, the final specs for HDMI 2.1 were ratified in late November/early December with the final design specs being sent to the chip mfrs around Feb. I think. So whatever HDMI.org deems important for HDMI 2.1, those designs are being incorporated into the first gen of HDMI 2.1 chips. I've even heard that the chipsets will be designed with the ability to be firmware updated to the latest protocols once they are ready for full compliance. However, that may be device mfr specific. I still want to know how they are going to get around the initial cable distance limitation for fully compliant 48Gbps. I really dislike HDMI but it's what we are stuck with. There is going to be lots of market-spin come the holiday season with new devices coming out that are "HDMI 2.1 ready.." or "HDMI 2.1 compatible.." ad naseum. Personally I don't care about HDMI 2.1 but there are lots of folks, mostly the ones who do not come here, that will be more than willing to pluck down big cash for the latest in HDMI technology, not knowing what they are really getting.


I've been following the timeline. Given the rate at which new features / functions are being added, it would be foolish not to produce any HDMI silicon that could be end-used updated.
I'm in total agreement about the HDMI connector situation, I wish they would have followed something like Display Port, or at very least put a lock on it for cripes sake! Like I said in another post, this could be a turning point for bi-directional optical cables (at a reasonable price)- now, a 35' optical really is a niche product, but when it gets to the point where you need an optical cable to go 10 or 15 feet, a lot more people are going to need them, more demand brings more manufacturers, more manufactures bring more competition, more competition brings lower prices (eventually).

And yes, holiday season is coming and PT Barnum was right. There is a sucker born every minute.... I'm sure there's people out there now shopping for HDMI 2.1 cables right now to 'future-proof' their purchase.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> I've been following the timeline. Given the rate at which new features / functions are being added, it would be foolish not to produce any HDMI silicon that could be end-used updated.
> I'm in total agreement about the HDMI connector situation, I wish they would have followed something like Display Port, or at very least put a lock on it for cripes sake! Like I said in another post, this could be a turning point for bi-directional optical cables (at a reasonable price)- now, a 35' optical really is a niche product, but when it gets to the point where you need an optical cable to go 10 or 15 feet, a lot more people are going to need them, more demand brings more manufacturers, more manufactures bring more competition, more competition brings lower prices (eventually).
> 
> And yes, holiday season is coming and PT Barnum was right. There is a sucker born every minute.... I'm sure there's people out there now shopping for HDMI 2.1 cables right now to 'future-proof' their purchase.


I think we agree more than disagree on this eARC/ARC/CEC mess. DP would have been a great idea but the "powers that be" didn't have the foresight or the inclination to pursue that.

Actually, PT Barnum never said that. He said "There is a customer born every minute". The "sucker" comment was actually uttered by a competitor over a disagreement and then attributed to PT Barnum.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> I think we agree more than disagree on this eARC/ARC/CEC mess. DP would have been a great idea but the "powers that be" didn't have the foresight or the inclination to pursue that.
> 
> Actually, PT Barnum never said that. He said "There is a customer born every minute". The "sucker" comment was actually uttered by a competitor over a disagreement and then attributed to PT Barnum.


Interesting; I actually wiki'd it before quoting in, not for authenticity, but for accuracy of the quote... the wiki states that several sources claim several different people authored it, but in the end there was no conclusive proof who authored it... 

{ Barnum's biographer Arthur H. Saxon tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase but was unable to verify it. According to Saxon, "There's no contemporary account of it, or even any suggestion that the word 'sucker' was used in the derogatory sense in his day. Barnum was just not the type to disparage his patrons."

Some sources claim that it is most likely from famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar Joe") Bessimer, and other sources say that it was actually uttered by David Hannum in reference to Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax. Hannum was exhibiting the "original" giant and had unsuccessfully sued Barnum for exhibiting a copy and claiming that it was the original. Crowds continued to pay to see Barnum's exhibit, even after both it and the original had been proven to be fakes.

Another source credits late 1860s Chicago saloon owner Michael Cassius McDonald as the originator of the aphorism. According to the book Gem of the Prairie: Chicago Underworld (1940) by Herbert Asbury, McDonald was equipping his gambling house known as The Store when his partner expressed concern over the large number of roulette wheels and faro tables being installed and their ability to get enough players. McDonald then allegedly said, "Don't worry about that, there's a sucker born every minute."

Another source credits late 1860s Chicago saloon owner Michael Cassius McDonald as the originator of the aphorism. According to the book Gem of the Prairie: Chicago Underworld (1940) by Herbert Asbury, McDonald was equipping his gambling house known as The Store when his partner expressed concern over the large number of roulette wheels and faro tables being installed and their ability to get enough players. McDonald then allegedly said, "Don't worry about that, there's a sucker born every minute." }

In the end, we'll never really know for sure who said it, because at the core our information is coming from a bunch of con-men and charlatans.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ whatever. It still makes a valid quote for a variety of situations.


----------



## jong1

Spizz said:


> Hi i see a lot of people recommending RuiPro but how about Celerity UFO? Apparently they will support 2.1 when released and all you need to do is change the ends? Looking at my options.





bluechunks said:


> Spizz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi i see a lot of people recommending RuiPro but how about Celerity UFO? Apparently they will support 2.1 when released and all you need to do is change the ends? Looking at my options.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, it depends on your current needs.
> 
> I’ve owned both and replaced the Celerity because I was having issues with 4K Dolby Vision @ 60Hz sourced from an Apple TV via my AVR. All other video formats and frame rates worked well.
> 
> There have been mixed reports from others that claim ARC also works better with RuiPro but I don’t use ARC so I can’t comment.
Click to expand...

If you look back far enough on AVS Celerity was THE recommended solution. Lots of us used it. Like Bluechunks I originally had Celerity. For me it worked brilliantly, at the time was the ONLY viable solution and their customer service was outstanding (they shipped a whole new cable, including terminations, FOR FREE, to the UK, when their distributor fouled up and shipped me an out of date product). I only replaced it when I accidentally broke the cable in a DIY error, but at that point RUIPRO was highly recommended and much cheaper. So, I like Celerity, the company.

HOWEVER, I really would not assume you will be able to swap the terminations for HDMI 2.1. I only had a brief opportunity to look at Celerity's statements on this and, although I may have missed something, I could only find a commitment to ultimately release a 2.1 version, not to upgrade their current solution and the interface between the cable and the termination is VERY sensitive with a very tight tolerance.

When Celerity replaced my cable only the terminators were outdated. In theory the cable was fine. However they chose to ship a whole new cable and terminator set at not inconsiderable cost to themselves. They suggested that, although I could try using my original cable with the new terminators, it was likely it would not work as they are shipped as matched pairs. The old cable did NOT work. The step up from 2.0 to 2.1(18 Gbps -> 48 Gbps, plus a high speed eARC return path) is a much bigger upgrade than the simple change from 14Gbps -> 18Gbps that affected me. Until it's done I don't think even Celerity can say they will be able to just swap the terminations and I think it's unlikely that will work. Just my opinion though.


----------



## noah katz

SLYDoggie said:


> ...I have been seeing some claims recently that you shouldn't use anything shorter than a 6' HDMI cable in a full speed 18Gbps 4K 60FPS setup.



The explanation I heard from an industry professional, which makes sense to me, is that because impedance matching is never perfect, signal reflections occur at the terminations.

If the cable is too short, the reflections are too close in time to the originally propagated signal, messing up the waveform.


----------



## Otto Pylot

noah katz said:


> The explanation I heard from an industry professional, which makes sense to me, is that because impedance matching is never perfect, signal reflections occur at the terminations.
> 
> If the cable is too short, the reflections are too close in time to the originally propagated signal, messing up the waveform.



Not entirely true. I was asked by Ruipro to test their active hybrid fiber cables at 5' lengths. Previously I was using Premium High Speed HDMI cables, 4' and 5' lengths from BJC. Both types of cables, passive and active, transferred 4k HDR perfectly, regardless of source with absolutely no issues. The hybrid fibers cables were easy to work with, had a remarkable bend radius, and with the slim HDMI connectors, they easily and snugly fit into a horizontal or vertical HDMI input. Hybrid fiber is expensive so I would not recommend them at lengths under 25'. The passive Premium High Speed HDMI cables work just fine at lengths under 10' (4' to 5' for sure).


----------



## noah katz

Otto Pylot said:


> Not entirely true...



I didn't mean to say it was always the case, but that it could be the reason for issues with short cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

noah katz said:


> I didn't mean to say it was always the case, but that it could be the reason for issues with short cables.


It's possible, especially if it was a cheap Chinese knock off cable. Price is not always an indicator of quality of cable build. I've used passive cables as short as 4' before with no issues. Mileage, as always, will vary.


----------



## timrb

i'm hoping that the technology has started to catch up since these postings.

I have an onkyo TX-NR585 receiver in my audio closet that's 40-50ft hdmi cable length away from my tv (after it goes up thru the rafters and back down).

and i'd like to take advantage of some black Friday sales and buy a new 75" UHD LED tv....maybe LG 75SM9070PUA (claims a 240Hz refresh rate).

i'm ready to rip out the drywall and lay some pvc pipe in order to future proof, but don't want to do all that if there isn't a cable that'll feed the new UHD TV's

is there a cable out there that I can run from my closet that'll support the new UHD TV's? pls don't tell me that i'm doomed to live with my current 8 yr old 55" 1080p tv. I currently run a 55' monoprice active hdmi cable and it works fine.

i'm not a full-on techy like most of you folks, so my eyes glaze over when I start seeing all of the Gbps and copper wire discussions. but I've got a half way decent surround sound system in my living room and i'd like to tack on one of the newer UHD TV's to it.

btw...is 18.2Gbps capability for cable performance what I need?

does the AWG really make a diff at this length?

some cables that I've seen online are...

Monoprice Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 24AWG YCbCr 4:4:4 CL2 50ft Black - $53
Monoprice Essentials CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 50ft - $63
Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 50ft, Black - $233
Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR High Speed Outdoor HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, Fiber Optic, AOC, YUV 4:4:4, Armored, 50FT, Black - $212
RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 20m - $219

thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

timrb said:


> i'm hoping that the technology has started to catch up since these postings.
> 
> I have an onkyo TX-NR585 receiver in my audio closet that's 40-50ft hdmi cable length away from my tv (after it goes up thru the rafters and back down).
> 
> and i'd like to take advantage of some black Friday sales and buy a new 75" UHD LED tv....maybe LG 75SM9070PUA (claims a 240Hz refresh rate).
> 
> i'm ready to rip out the drywall and lay some pvc pipe in order to future proof, but don't want to do all that if there isn't a cable that'll feed the new UHD TV's
> 
> is there a cable out there that I can run from my closet that'll support the new UHD TV's? pls don't tell me that i'm doomed to live with my current 8 yr old 55" 1080p tv. I currently run a 55' monoprice active hdmi cable and it works fine.
> 
> i'm not a full-on techy like most of you folks, so my eyes glaze over when I start seeing all of the Gbps and copper wire discussions. but I've got a half way decent surround sound system in my living room and i'd like to tack on one of the newer UHD TV's to it.
> 
> btw...is 18.2Gbps capability for cable performance what I need?
> 
> does the AWG really make a diff at this length?
> 
> some cables that I've seen online are...
> 
> Monoprice Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 24AWG YCbCr 4:4:4 CL2 50ft Black - $53
> Monoprice Essentials CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 50ft - $63
> Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 50ft, Black - $233
> Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR High Speed Outdoor HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, Fiber Optic, AOC, YUV 4:4:4, Armored, 50FT, Black - $212
> RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 20m - $219
> 
> thx


At 50', for 4k HDR, your best bet is to use a hybrid fiber cable. They are not cheap and there are no 100% guarantees. Rupro4k cables seem to get the best reviews from AVS users. Using a conduit for in-wall installations is almost a requirement because cable requirements will change as the video standards become more demanding (HDMI 2.1 for example) so the chances of upgrading your cabling is a very real possibility, so you should have easy access to your cabling. It's also easier and safer to control bend radius with a conduit. 

The best and most reliable connection is a single cable run, source to sink, with no extenders, adapters, wall plates, etc in-between.

Cables that are advertised as 48Gbps, or any other HDMI 2.1 feature sets are questionable because there is no way to validate those claims. The obvious answer is that there are no consumer devices commercially available yet, or source material for that matter, that can take advantage of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets so testing those cables in a real world setting is not possible. It's relatively easy to show that a cable of a given length can push 48Gbps, but it's an entirely different matter to show that the cable can handle the data that requires 48Gbps without any errors.

18Gbps is the current bandwidth for the HDMI 2.0 feature sets and is just fine for 4k HDR. Wire gauge does make a difference, and a thicker wire is usually more reliable. But with a thicker wire gauge you lose bend radius which can result in increases strain on the HDMI input, which is not good.

Your biggest issue will be distance. 50' can work with different cables but it's going to be trial and error.


----------



## Mr.G

timrb said:


> i'm hoping that the technology has started to catch up since these postings.
> 
> RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 20m - *$219*


The Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Cable prices have steadily gone down over the past 8 months with Amazon currently selling the 50 foot (15m) for $120.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> The Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Cable prices have steadily gone down over the past 8 months with Amazon currently selling the 50 foot (15m) for $120.


Yep. And I think the Ruipro4k may drop even a bit further once the Ruipro8k cable is ready for prime time and shipping globally.


----------

