# 3D POP out Question



## bkfk

I have a new Samsung 3D Plasma TV.Since I don't have any Blu Ray movies yet,I have watched a few movies from my Comcast 3D stations.Some that I have watched,i.e.,Legends of Flight, are suppose to have some good pop out scenes,however,on my Tv the 'pop out' seems to stop at the screen and nothing gives the effect of coming into the living room.

Is this normal for something coming from the TV or am I not doing something that I should be?


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## cakefoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bkfk* /forum/post/20626225
> 
> 
> I have a new Samsung 3D Plasma TV.Since I don't have any Blu Ray movies yet,I have watched a few movies from my Comcast 3D stations.Some that I have watched,i.e.,Legends of Flight, are suppose to have some good pop out scenes,however,on my Tv the 'pop out' seems to stop at the screen and nothing gives the effect of coming into the living room.
> 
> Is this normal for something coming from the TV or am I not doing something that I should be?



That's fine. Popout is actually really complicated to shoot- it basically needs to be scripted. Documentaries are predominantly an educational and immersive look at a foreign topic, while popout is about poking foreign objects at the viewer to startle them.


I stay away from popout, but you'll find it in boatloads if you watch Piranha 3D, Saw 3D--- are you seeing the trend I'm getting at?


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## FBlack

As a test, I suggest you find a few 3D trailers on line to use as a test. Some are better than others with lots of pop. Try something with underwater scenes. Or the end of the Black Eyed Peas video. Also my TW cable has an on demand free 3D movie called Haunted Castle. The end credits (bubbles) has some of the best pop out scenes of any 3D.


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## Mongis

Imax: Legends of Flight has lots of in your face moments though.


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## walford

Have you tried revesing the images with the TVs settings? If not test try watching with your glasses upside down.


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## Don Landis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cakefoo* /forum/post/20626563
> 
> 
> That's fine. Popout is actually really complicated to shoot- it basically needs to be scripted. Documentaries are predominantly an educational and immersive look at a foreign topic, while popout is about poking foreign objects at the viewer to startle them.
> 
> 
> I stay away from popout, but you'll find it in boatloads if you watch Piranha 3D, Saw 3D--- are you seeing the trend I'm getting at?



This is completely wrong and narrow minded. Sorry, but you obviously don't shoot.


The truth is that the screen is at zero parallax with respect to the 3D stereographic image. The two images will diverge in two horizontal directions. When the parallax is positive the image object in the scene will move behind your screen. When it goes negative it will move in front of the screen ( this negative parallax is what most layman call "popout" ) When 3D cameras are calibrated for stereoscopic imaging, the screen plane or zero parallax is set for the camera near the center of it's convergence to give good range of the z-axis or depth in the scene. The range of this depth is simply controlled by how close the objects in the scene come to the camera lens. The camera lens pair is at the peak of a cone of view. If the "popout" object comes close to the camera in depth but off to the side it will be outside the frustum of the cone of view and not yield the popout. If the object comes to the top of the cone of view or near the center between the two lenses and inside the frustum of the cone, you will simply get your beloved ( or hated) popout. Note that the effect you see in most advertisements of a guy coming out of the TV and extending beyond the frustum of the cone of view is an impossible image and really is false advertising. The best effect for negative parallax is to make sure the object you shoot close to the peak of the cone of view is small enough to remain inside that cone. Otherwise it gets cut off and looks unnatural and awkward. In some cases it cuts off one of the two stereo images and leaves the other which is one of the causes of "ghosts" near the edge of the picture. These, my friend. are not difficult scenes to script, just require a bit of knowledge on how stereoscopic video works and keeping your shot inside the boundaries between your camera lens and the edge of the picture at the screen plane.


The reason why most film makers avoid extreme popout in their productions (except for the occasional gratuitous effect) is that it causes eye fatigue as it makes your eyes attempt to focus crosseyed. In deep distant objects along with close up objects your eyes will be fighting between a diverged strain and crosseyed strain. This is really fatiguing. The best 3D stereoscopic productions are those that keep the extreme negative and extreme positive parallax or extreme range of depth to a minimum to prevent eye fatigue. Like any muscle exercise, different people have different tolerance for eyeball exercise. 3D stereoscopic IS eyeball muscle exercise as compared to 2D viewing. Exercise with a dumbell once or twice in 30 minutes and you don't get fatigue. But press that weight for 30 minutes and see how you feel.


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## cakefoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Don Landis* 
This is completely wrong and narrow minded. Sorry, but you obviously don't shoot.
I do shoot. It's not the hardest thing in the world to do, but it requires a relatively large deal of effort and planning and is harder to fit into a documentary or sport than a movie where everything's already heavily scripted

Quote:

The reason why most film makers avoid extreme popout in their productions (except for the occasional gratuitous effect) is that it causes eye fatigue as it makes your eyes attempt to focus crosseyed.
Also because it's cliche because it's been abused far too much in the past to break the fourth window. I'm not being narrow-minded about it, this is just how a lot of people see it and why movies like Avatar were such a revelation to people.


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## jb11

I enjoy 'popout' that is slow and sustains for a few seconds. Like flying scenes, where the head or wings of a creature extend out of the screen. And scenes in IMAX undersea docs, where fish, coral etc popout.


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## javanpohl

Oh... I guess I actually have a serious answer to this question. Check the settings under Picture -> 3d. There's a setting to adjust the amount of depth. Perhaps playing with that could help. I have mine set to zero, but that's for blu-ray. I don't know if Comcast movies differ drastically.


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## Josh Z

I'll be honest, I have almost never seen any "popout" on either of my 3D screens (JVC projector and Vizio TV). In almost all cases, the screen is a window that everything extends back from, even in cases where it seems obvious that the filmmakers intended for something to extend beyond the screen (such as gratuitous shots of bullets and throwing stars flying at the camera in Resident Evil Afterlife).


I have seen "popout" in theaters, however.


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## sigmaace01

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Josh Z* 
I'll be honest, I have almost never seen any "popout" on either of my 3D screens (JVC projector and Vizio TV). In almost all cases, the screen is a window that everything extends back from, even in cases where it seems obvious that the filmmakers were intended for something to extend beyond the screen (such as gratuitous shots of bullets and throwing stars flying at the camera in Resident Evil Afterlife).


I have seen "popout" in theaters, however.
That's the way I see all 3D.


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## Don Landis

Quote:

I do shoot. It's not the hardest thing in the world to do, but it requires a relatively large deal of effort and planning and is harder to fit into a documentary or sport than a movie where everything's already heavily scripted
Cakefoo- I do both styles and find it just the opposite. My TV production days were filled with script first and make the shot fit the script. It was always harder to get what was called for, especially in little controlled environments like with animals and kids than to shoot straight documentary style where the name of the game is shoot it every way you can and get lots of content. Then the real job later on is picking the right balance of what you have and writing the script around what happened.

As I'm retired from TV production now, I am having a blast "playing with 3D and making my Home videos in true documentary style. But the old formula still works, I shoot about 3 hours of good content minimum for every hour that gets into the program. Lots of stuff ends up on the cutting room floor as it is either redundant to the story, too slow, or just doesn't fit the story. I'm not a McLuhan student as I believe the story is the message. Most people who get a camcorder that post in these forums are shooting McLuhan or the "medium is the message." Common non techie consumers just shoot and watch the raw footage. There is no right or wrong, it's just what YOU want to do.


I recently posted a link to a sample from a 1 hour video I just completed, pure amateur home video, to document our day at Epcot. It was lots of fun and I shot a ton of stuff that didn't make the cut. However, as one who likes a bit more "popout" than some, I did shoot a fair amount of stuff that way. The thing is, I do know how to shoot and I know how to generate that "popout" as this piece was created for my home theater, I have a large screen and this fills my room. Aside from popout, I really like shots that extend from 50% viewing to screen distance to well behind the screen. To me that approaches life like. But as I said earlier too much of that can tire the viewer. This is what John Cameron has stated. He knows that too much parallax can annoy the viewer so he keeps it to a minimum. He is a "story is the message" director and his stories are very good!


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## bkfk

Thanks all for the feedback.As suggested I tried adjusting the 3D picture orientation from R/L to L/R and that solved my problem.Is this something that might need to be changed often based on the movie being played?


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## Don Landis

bkfk- I don't think so as there are standards in the industry, but there are a couple problems with a major player that most people know about and that is You Tube. Their encoding flips the R/L and then you have to put in a tag on your 3D uploads to switch it back so people can use standard glasses to watch. Don't ask me why they did that as I don't know. Standard glasses are red on the left eye, cyan on the right. Glad you fixed that and can enjoy your 3D. I'd say your 3D video before was a mess with it bassackwards. Not just no popout.


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## ferl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bkfk* /forum/post/20629350
> 
> 
> Thanks all for the feedback.As suggested I tried adjusting the 3D picture orientation from R/L to L/R and that solved my problem.Is this something that might need to be changed often based on the movie being played?






Glad that worked. I think the post was deleted as I quoted a previous post referring to another poster as a pretentious feminine hygiene product. In response to your question about needing to change that setting in the future, I would try another source and see if it is different than than your cable provider. I don't need to change mine and I have used 3D Bluray discs and the Explore 3D app on the TV. The Explore 3D app has Legends Of Flight as one of the movies. Also there is an app called Armchair Astronaut that looks kinda cool. My SAT tuner cannot display the 3D offerings from my provider so I don't know about that one. As for YouTube, I don't know and don't really care. But take that information with a grain as I don't shoot video.


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## bkfk

Is your TV normally set at R/L or L/R?


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## ferl

I have the C8000. Under 3D, my option is listed as "picture correction". That option indicates that it "changes each other left and right image". It toggles the setting and doesn't indicate R/L or L/R.


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## WirelessGuru

Watch the ending credits of "Haunted Castle" ...


Cupid in the bubble should appear to be floating right in front of you and well outside the confines of your television. If not then something is wrong.


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## cbcdesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20628933
> 
> 
> I'll be honest, I have almost never seen any "popout" on either of my 3D screens (JVC projector and Vizio TV). In almost all cases, the screen is a window that everything extends back from, even in cases where it seems obvious that the filmmakers were intended for something to extend beyond the screen (such as gratuitous shots of bullets and throwing stars flying at the camera in Resident Evil Afterlife).
> 
> 
> I have seen "popout" in theaters, however.



My Panasonic 3D set was delivered today and I put on the opening credits of Resident Evil Afterlife (My first 3D Bluray Purchase) for a quick look and was surprised by the amount of popout I saw. Some of the credits appeared to float a good foot or so in front of the screen. Others were behind it. Quite impressive though I must say although I am equally happy with lots of depth too.


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## sigmaace01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ferl* /forum/post/20630334
> 
> 
> I have the C8000. Under 3D, my option is listed as "picture correction". That option indicates that it "changes each other left and right image". It toggles the setting and doesn't indicate R/L or L/R.



I have the PN50C8000 and switched the L/R yesterday and that seemed to really help with 3D. It might be a placebo affect lol.


Do certain programs or show require switching?


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## ferl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sigmaace01* /forum/post/20633794
> 
> 
> I have the PN50C8000 and switched the L/R yesterday and that seemed to really help with 3D. It might be a placebo affect lol.
> 
> 
> Do certain programs or show require switching?



Not that I've seen.


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## Josh Z




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cbcdesign* /forum/post/20633521
> 
> 
> My Panasonic 3D set was delivered today and I put on the opening credits of Resident Evil Afterlife (My first 3D Bluray Purchase) for a quick look and was surprised by the amount of popout I saw. Some of the credits appeared to float a good foot or so in front of the screen. Others were behind it. Quite impressive though I must say although I am equally happy with lots of depth too.



Hmmm... interesting. I don't know if it's a difference in the displays (though I get the same effect on both of mine) or if each viewer's ocular physiology plays into this, but those credits definitely do not extend in front of my screen. Now, there is depth in that sequence, and some of the credits appear in front of other credits, but they don't penetrate the screen window for me.


About the only time I've seen "popout" is during the PS3 game Super Stardust HD. When you die, your ship explodes in a huge burst that flies through the screen.


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## shinksma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20636901
> 
> 
> Hmmm... interesting. I don't know if it's a difference in the displays (though I get the same effect on both of mine) or if each viewer's ocular physiology plays into this, but those credits definitely do not extend in front of my screen. Now, there is depth in that sequence, and some of the credits appear in front of other credits, but they don't penetrate the screen window for me.
> 
> 
> About the only time I've seen "popout" is during the PS3 game Super Stardust HD. When you die, your ship explodes in a huge burst that flies through the screen.



Whether things appear to pop out should be a function of one physical element only: whether the object in question is displayed within the left eyepoint physically to the right of the location within the right eyepoint on the screen.


If both eyepoints display the object at the same physical location on-screen, the object will look like it is exactly at the distance of the screen.


If the object in the left eyepoint displays physically to the left of the object within the right eyepoint, then it will appear to be behind the screen.


Settings in the BD player or display device can affect the relative location on the physical screen by shifting the image: force the left eyepoint to display 5 pixels further right than normal, and the right eyepoint to display 5 pixels further left than normal, and things will pop out a little more - you also lose 10 pixels of data (5 pixels on each side).


There shouldn't be any ocular physiology involved - that might affect how much the object appears in front or behind, but not whether it appears in front or behind.


Psychologically, well, that's a whole other kettle of fish, although I don't think it would be typical to have that affect out vs in, but again, like physiological factors, just how much.


AFAIK, IMHO,


shinksma


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## Josh Z

shinksma, would viewing angle (i.e. sitting off-center) affect this at all?


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## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20636901
> 
> 
> Hmmm... interesting. I don't know if it's a difference in the displays (though I get the same effect on both of mine) or if each viewer's ocular physiology plays into this, but those credits definitely do not extend in front of my screen. Now, there is depth in that sequence, and some of the credits appear in front of other credits, but they don't penetrate the screen window for me.
> 
> 
> About the only time I've seen "popout" is during the PS3 game Super Stardust HD. When you die, your ship explodes in a huge burst that flies through the screen.



Check out the end credits on Despicable Me. If you don't see significant and sustained (several seconds) of popout (ladder extending out, etc.), there's probably something dodgy in your settings. I have an RS40 too by the way, and while I concur that most material has little in the way of pop-out (directorial intent?), that isn't the case for the end credits in Despicable Me.


On a related note, since the 3D illusion on a pop out is destroyed once an image touches the boundaries of the screen, and that most 3D in the home is viewed on screens that are far too small, could this explain why pop-out moments are relatively limited? Are 3D blu-rays mastered for in-home viewing with less pop-out that in the the theatre (with its larger screen size to distance ratio)?


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## shinksma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20637472
> 
> 
> shinksma, would viewing angle (i.e. sitting off-center) affect this at all?



It shouldn't. Think of it this way: if you displayed just a small red circle in the center of the otherwise black display, exact same position in both eyepoints, it would look like it was at the display distance. Take off the 3D glasses, it still looks like it is at the display distance (parallax = 0). Move sideways, still at the same apparent distance.


Admittedly, that isn't very interesting 3D - a single object at a fixed depth - because the sense of depth we get is from the variety of depths for the various objects in the field of view.


If we had two circles, one above the other, with the bottom one displayed as described above and the one at the top displayed such that it is physically displayed slightly right of center in the left eyepoint and slightly left of center in the right eyepoint, then it would appear to pop off the screen, especially relative to the other circle. As you move around the room the relative amount of "pop" will vary, but will never seem to go from in front of the screen to behind the screen.


Does that help?


shinksma


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## Scaroth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/20637550
> 
> 
> On a related note, since the 3D illusion on a pop out is destroyed once an image touches the boundaries of the screen, and that most 3D in the home is viewed on screens that are far too small, could this explain why pop-out moments are relatively limited? Are 3D blu-rays mastered for in-home viewing with less pop-out that in the the theatre (with its larger screen size to distance ratio)?



I think there is a trend in the production of these movies to optimize them more for home viewing, thus less pop-out. The IMAX movies can be frustrating at home because they're optimized for HUGE screens, not home screens.


I thought Step Up 3d was about the best home-optimized 3d presentation I've seen - lots of pop-out, but of objects that look natural on smaller screens, if that makes sense...


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## Josh Z




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/20637550
> 
> 
> On a related note, since the 3D illusion on a pop out is destroyed once an image touches the boundaries of the screen, and that most 3D in the home is viewed on screens that are far too small, could this explain why pop-out moments are relatively limited? Are 3D blu-rays mastered for in-home viewing with less pop-out that in the the theatre (with its larger screen size to distance ratio)?



I saw James Cameron promoting the Avatar 3D Blu-ray at a conference, and someone asked him whether the 3D effect needs to be adjusted for home viewing. He said that he felt no adjustments were needed from cinema to home. But perhaps other filmmakers/studios are taking a different approach?


If that is the case, it falls at odds with all the marketing for home 3D, which shows exaggerated images of things poking out of the TV screen.


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## SpyGuy311

We need a free demo video that has intentional pop-out so we can test. I'm certainly not going out to buy some crap movie just cause it has lots of pop-out.


I've watched several and as others, don't feel like anything breaks the plane of the TV screen.


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## Zenjabil

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Scaroth* 
I think there is a trend in the production of these movies to optimize them more for home viewing, thus less pop-out. The IMAX movies can be frustrating at home because they're optimized for HUGE screens, not home screens.


I thought Step Up 3d was about the best home-optimized 3d presentation I've seen - lots of pop-out, but of objects that look natural on smaller screens, if that makes sense...
If the 3D effect is indeed being designed with home exhibition on small screens (or rather at large viewing distance to screen size ratios) in mind, then that is particularly disappointing. Movies have historically been conceived (and as far as I'm concerned should continue to be conceived) for theatrical exhibition. Scaling back the 3D popout effect to make them friendlier to small screens is no different than making movies friendlier to small screen home exhibition in other ways. What's next - making sure all movies are framed in 16:9 aspect ratio to avoid black bars at the top and bottom?


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## Zenjabil

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Josh Z* 
I saw James Cameron promoting the Avatar 3D Blu-ray at a conference, and someone asked him whether the 3D effect needs to be adjusted for home viewing. He said that he felt no adjustments were needed from cinema to home. But perhaps other filmmakers/studios are taking a different approach?


If that is the case, it falls at odds with all the marketing for home 3D, which shows exaggerated images of things poking out of the TV screen.
Well then JC and I are in 100% agreement. No adjustments ( or as little as possible) ought to be made in 'converting' a movie for home exhibition. The onus of making the experience 'friendly' to home exhibition should fall entirely on the domestic viewer. The goal after all is to be able mimic a top notch (not mediocre) theatrical presentation, and a considerable investment in a projector, a screen, audio gear, a dedicated room, etc., shouldn't be compromised by distorted or dumbed-down source material. After all, record labels don't excise the lowest frequencies in an audio recording simply because most listeners don't have the requisite gear to accurately reproduce these frequencies.


BTW, have you checked out the credits in Despicable Me on your RS40?


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## Don Landis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Josh Z* 
I saw James Cameron promoting the Avatar 3D Blu-ray at a conference, and someone asked him whether the 3D effect needs to be adjusted for home viewing. He said that he felt no adjustments were needed from cinema to home. But perhaps other filmmakers/studios are taking a different approach?


If that is the case, it falls at odds with all the marketing for home 3D, which shows exaggerated images of things poking out of the TV screen.
That's because Cameron understands how stereography works. The formula for positioning an object in the z axis doesn't change based on how big the screen is or how close you sit to a screen. It's kind of like the aspect ratio where a 16 x 9 screen is 16 x 9 whether it is 160 ft. wide by 90 ft tall or 160 inches wide by 90 inches tall. Parallax z-axis positioning is a relative position based on a pyramidal cone where each corner of the base of the cone is an imaginary line from that corner to the center of your head where the apex of the cone passes through each eye lens, to be precise. Objects will always appear to be larger the closer they are, therefore an object must be quite small to be seen inside the frustum of the cone. If it's size extends beyond it will appear cut off. This is why a large image like a car cannot get too close or it will appear chopped off while a sword or cue stick can reach out and poke you in the face. An object will never extend outside that frustum and never pass to your side and behind you. It doesn't matter whether you are watching a big IMAX screen or a little 24" screen. The position is relative to the size of the screen and your distance to the screen. So, if you see an object that is located popout 50% between you and the screen in the theater, it will still be 50% distance on your 32" 3D monitor at home. Comfort zone- This will vary for different individuals but sitting too close to fill your peripheral vision will greatly reduce the popout effect distance, however it will increase eye strain because your eyes will be focusing attention to greatly diverged images, relative to sitting further away where the cone of vision has a narrower angle. A 60 degree angle on the cone is about maximum for 3D stereography.


What may need adjusting for the home theater vs. the big screen is camera motion as shaky cam on a big screen is far more jarring than on a small screen. In 3D this difference becomes even more annoying. Directors need to listen to the people to find out what they feel comfortable with. Personally, I find shooting 3D far more critical as to scene movement and transitions. Too fast and it can cause the 3D effect to come unglued so to speak. It's a tricky juggling act. We really don't know yet how the audience will react to many of the things they accepted in 2D when watching 3D.



If you want to really understand how this works, Get a copy of the text 3D Movie Making by Mendiburu. He has lots of drawings to go with the formulas that explain it all.


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## tlogan6797

Planet SOS (or is it SOS Planet?) has some GREAT pop out scenes, the snake in particular. I haven't seen this released on 3D BR yet, but it is available on Comcast.


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## Pete

I saw "The Ultimate Wave Tahiti 3D" (Imax) recently on a 110" screen with a SIM2 Lumis 3D projector, and the pop out scenes were incredible and fun. There's one scene at the beginning where the solar system is floating out in the room with rotating planets and moons...a real breathtaking moment. Surfboard tips also extended into the room. This is a great demo disc for 3D. I wonder if these types of 3D moments can be equated to the ping pong of early stereo hi fi demonstrations or the 360 panning of quadraphonic?


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## Josh Z




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/20639658
> 
> 
> Well then JC and I are in 100% agreement. No adjustments ( or as little as possible) ought to be made in 'converting' a movie for home exhibition. The onus of making the experience 'friendly' to home exhibition should fall entirely on the domestic viewer. The goal after all is to be able mimic a top notch (not mediocre) theatrical presentation, and a considerable investment in a projector, a screen, audio gear, a dedicated room, etc., shouldn't be compromised by distorted or dumbed-down source material.



How do you feel about soundtracks that get remixed for a near-field home environment?



> Quote:
> After all, record labels don't excise the lowest frequencies in an audio recording simply because most listeners don't have the requisite gear to accurately reproduce these frequencies.



The record labels have been terribly compressing dynamic range for years now, unfortunately. Google "loudness war" and you'll find reams of info on the subject.



> Quote:
> BTW, have you checked out the credits in Despicable Me on your RS40?



I don't have that disc, sadly. And I don't think it's one I'd be inclined to buy.


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## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20641296
> 
> 
> How do you feel about soundtracks that get remixed for a near-field home environment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The record labels have been terribly compressing dynamic range for years now, unfortunately. Google "loudness war" and you'll find reams of info on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have that disc, sadly. And I don't think it's one I'd be inclined to buy.



Fair enough...I should have been more specific in my post. I'm referring here exclusively to recordings of unamplified acoustic music (classical, jazz, etc.), as opposed to soundtracks or horribly dynamically compressed popular music), where again, the objective is to allow the end user with requisite equipment and set-up, etc. to mimic (as much as possible) a live unamplified acoustic event (with its full dynamic range imaging, layering, and '3D' soundstage, etc.) in the comfort of his/her home.


Despicable Me isn't a perfect disc on the RS40 (there is a bit of ghosting on some of the oranges, etc. - although that is the RS40's fault rather than a disc mastering issue), but the popout moments in the credits are indeed a treat. Unless you're opposed to watching animation, I wouldn't entirely dismiss it - it's actually quite amusing.


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## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don Landis* /forum/post/20640393
> 
> 
> That's because Cameron understands how stereography works. The formula for positioning an object in the z axis doesn't change based on how big the screen is or how close you sit to a screen. It's kind of like the aspect ratio where a 16 x 9 screen is 16 x 9 whether it is 160 ft. wide by 90 ft tall or 160 inches wide by 90 inches tall. Parallax z-axis positioning is a relative position based on a pyramidal cone where each corner of the base of the cone is an imaginary line from that corner to the center of your head where the apex of the cone passes through each eye lens, to be precise. Objects will always appear to be larger the closer they are, therefore an object must be quite small to be seen inside the frustum of the cone. If it's size extends beyond it will appear cut off. This is why a large image like a car cannot get too close or it will appear chopped off while a sword or cue stick can reach out and poke you in the face. An object will never extend outside that frustum and never pass to your side and behind you. It doesn't matter whether you are watching a big IMAX screen or a little 24" screen. The position is relative to the size of the screen and your distance to the screen. So, if you see an object that is located popout 50% between you and the screen in the theater, it will still be 50% distance on your 32" 3D monitor at home. Comfort zone- This will vary for different individuals but sitting too close to fill your peripheral vision will greatly reduce the popout effect distance, however it will increase eye strain because your eyes will be focusing attention to greatly diverged images, relative to sitting further away where the cone of vision has a narrower angle. A 60 degree angle on the cone is about maximum for 3D stereography.
> 
> 
> What may need adjusting for the home theater vs. the big screen is camera motion as shaky cam on a big screen is far more jarring than on a small screen. In 3D this difference becomes even more annoying. Directors need to listen to the people to find out what they feel comfortable with. Personally, I find shooting 3D far more critical as to scene movement and transitions. Too fast and it can cause the 3D effect to come unglued so to speak. It's a tricky juggling act. We really don't know yet how the audience will react to many of the things they accepted in 2D when watching 3D.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to really understand how this works, Get a copy of the text 3D Movie Making by Mendiburu. He has lots of drawings to go with the formulas that explain it all.



Excellent post Don. Very informative/helpful.


----------



## Mysto

I enjoyed the posts on this subject as I have noticed that the pop-outs I see on my tv are not as great as those in the movies. I thought I would add to an old discussion.


Although the math may say the pop-outs are the same - I have never seen a pop out on my tv 47" that goes more than about a foot in front of the screen.

The maximum pop-out maximum seems very consistent.


I tried an experiment yesterday with the end credits of haunted castle. The cupid or what ever it is - is intended to hover right in front of you at the movies. On my tv it hovers about a foot in front of the screen. If I move closer - it doesn't appear to move (retract) very much. When I get close enough - it appears that I can touch it (about two to three feet away from the screen). I really feel the difference is screen size and the maximum pop-out distance is directly proportional to that size. I know this may go against the quoted science but this is what I observed.


For those who have asked for a free example of pop-outs - I sugest LG 3D demo global on youtube. If the jet plane doesn't extend in front of your screen - you have a problem somewhere.


----------



## VFC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mysto* /forum/post/21651087
> 
> 
> ...... Although the math may say the pop-outs are the same - I have never seen a pop out on my tv 47" that goes more than about a foot in front of the screen.
> 
> The maximum pop-out maximum seems very consistent.
> 
> 
> I tried an experiment yesterday with the end credits of haunted castle. The cupid or what ever it is - is intended to hover right in front of you at the movies. On my tv it hovers about a foot in front of the screen. If I move closer - it doesn't appear to move (retract) very much. When I get close enough - it appears that I can touch it (about two to three feet away from the screen). I really feel the difference is screen size and the maximum pop-out distance is directly proportional to that size. I know this may go against the quoted science but this is what I observed.............



I just watched the end of Haunted Castle (free on Comcast On-Demand) on my BDT210/Sharp 835U 3D TV. Cupid comes out of the screen ~ 50%. So when I'm sitting 6ft from the TV, he is out about 3ft. When I'm 3ft from the TV, he is out about 18in and I can "touch" him. If I get closer yet to the TV, I can actually get my hand behind him. BTW - It is funny watching him move as I move closer and further away from the TV screen.


So that leads me to believe that in order for a movie theater to get an image close enough for me to reach out and touch it, the pop-out must be a much higher percentage. If I'm sitting 50ft from the movie screen, to get the image 2ft in front of me, that would be a 96% pop-out (the image would be 25ft away with a 50% pop-out).


BTW - Haunted House is an excellent movie to experiment with pop-outs. The first time I watched it, I didn't notice the cupid because it "pops-out" after the animated part of the movie is over. When the rock concert scene comes on, the cupid floats in front of you for over five minutes. The whole time he is popping credit bubbles with his foot. Lots of time to see what happens to pop-outs when you change seating distance and viewing angles. You can also see content generated cross talk visible on bubbles on the extreme left and right sides and how the cross talk goes away as the bubbles move to the center. There is no cross talk on the cupid because he is always in the center of the screen.


----------



## lifecast2020

I noticed all the responses here were either telling folks what movies had the best pop out effects, whether everyone was able to view them or not. Or it was making comparisons to one product or another.


I think it comes down to a person's ability to relax their eyesite to view pop out effects. Just like with those "magic photos" where you cross your eyes just a bit and a sailboat appears. But it wouldn't long lasting for sure.


As one person mentioned it would be unnatural for an object to actually go beyond the screen as that would mean the object went through the lens of the camera. However a person could perceive that image as protruding, even though the guy next to him won't see that same effect.


In my experience, I do not see any pop out effects generally.

That said, there was a brief moment when the potato fish in IMAX under the sea looked like it popped out? And maybe the lanterns in Tangled?

Or I could have imagined it?


----------



## McGriddle

When I was demoing TVs (specifically comparing my PN63C8000 versus the Panny Plasma), we were initially very let down by the 3D effect and pop-out of the Sammy running their demo disc versus the Panny running its demo disc that included a scene from Avatar.


I simply switched the demo discs and lo and behold, the "3Dness" and pop-out effects became immediately more pronounced and immersive and the two TVs were basically a tie.


Monsters vs. Aliens (the beginning with the galaxy is a nice effect, for example) has significantly more pop-out than Transformers DotM which had great general depth into the screen but only a little amount of pop-out.


The trailer for Pirates on Stranger Tides (I don't have the actual BD, though) that's on the Tron Legacy BD is impressive as well. Tron Legacy, sadly, had only modest pop-out and depth despite the combination of live action and CG... granted that was not filmed in


Overall, I guess I'm saying that the effects to me have all been related to the source material... some simply having substantially more 3Dness than others. However, I must admit that I've never had the same level of pop-out that I've seen when viewing 3D in the theater. I don't think that I've ever noticed anything pop-out further than perhaps 25% of the distance from the plane of the screen.


By the way, on the Sammy, you can adjust the level of depth--however, there is a tradeoff with crosstalk.


----------



## VFC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McGriddle* /forum/post/21655672
> 
> 
> ..... By the way, on the Sammy, you can adjust the level of depth--however, there is a tradeoff with crosstalk.



I believe the depth level adjustment applies to the TV's 2D to 3D conversion.


If you check out the 3D movie reviews on Amazon; Keith Niemeyer has very detailed reviews on ~ 50 3D movies. He counts the number of pop-outs, the percentage of each, and where they occur in the movie.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...stRecentReview


----------



## McGriddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VFC* /forum/post/21656544
> 
> 
> I believe the depth level adjustment applies to the TV's 2D to 3D conversion.
> 
> 
> If you check out the 3D movie reviews on Amazon; Keith Niemeyer has very detailed reviews on ~ 50 3D movies. He counts the number of pop-outs, the percentage of each, and where they occur in the movie.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...stRecentReview



Sorry... you're right! The actual adjustment called "Depth" is for 2D -> 3D conversion.


The adjustment I'm thinking about in 3D mode is "3D Viewpoint." In my experience, it appears to mostly adjust the image to minimize crosstalk. However, it also seems to affect the depth ever so slightly as well, but that may be an artifact of improving / worsening crosstalk.


In the manual, it says "3D View point: The overall adjustment of 3D perspective." Not sure how to interpret that one!










Wow... thanks for the link to Keith's 3D reviews! He really took the time to count and gauge the effects. I'm impressed... though sad that I don't have the time to enjoy as many 3D BDs. His reviews are actually quite helpful.


----------



## VFC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lifecast2020* /forum/post/21655412
> 
> 
> ..............As one person mentioned it would be unnatural for an object to actually go beyond the screen as that would mean the object went through the lens of the camera. However a person could perceive that image as protruding, even though the guy next to him won't see that same effect.............



My analogy of watching 3D TV; is like I'm looking out a big window. My bezel is the wood trim. A pop-out is like someone pops their head in the window or pokes a pole into the room.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SpyGuy311* /forum/post/20639134
> 
> 
> We need a free demo video that has intentional pop-out so we can test. I'm certainly not going out to buy some crap movie just cause it has lots of pop-out.
> 
> 
> I've watched several and as others, don't feel like anything breaks the plane of the TV screen.



This is a pretty good one to see some cool popouts . Lemme know how you like it









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUsqwaeDekM


----------



## ferl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VFC* /forum/post/21657027
> 
> 
> My analogy of watching 3D TV; is like I'm looking out a big window. My bezel is the wood trim. A pop-out is like someone pops their head in the window or pokes a pole into the room.



My analogy for pop-outs; is like trying to relax and watch a movie with a dozen annoying 8 year olds running in and out of the room while poking pool cues at my face


----------



## blastermaster




> Quote:
> In my experience, I do not see any pop out effects generally.
> 
> That said, there was a brief moment when the potato fish in IMAX under the sea looked like it popped out? And maybe the lanterns in Tangled?
> 
> Or I could have imagined it?



Not imagining it. Those are great scenes - I could have pet that potato fish it was so close (and I sit 14' away from my projector screen).


Something to think about is that with 3D your eyes are being tricked and forced into resolving near/far objects very quickly. It can get tiring and is a good workout on the eyes. This is just a theory, but like exercise, the more you do it the easier it gets. I've found that the more I watch 3D, the less bothersome (and easier to resolve) action scenes are and I can last longer before my eyes feel strained.


FWIW, popout doesn't have to be cheesy and can be implemented in a way that augments the scene positively. I particularly liked in RE: Afterlife when the Umbrella peons were pointing their guns - they were sticking right out of the screen...at me! Really cool.


----------



## oleus

I have to concur with the recommendations of HAUNTED CASTLE - even with comcast's resolution/compression, the 3d popout effect in this title is as aggressive as i've seen. lots of depth AND popout like i have yet to see in any bluray...


----------



## MentalDistortion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mysto* /forum/post/21651087
> 
> 
> For those who have asked for a free example of pop-outs - I sugest LG 3D demo global on youtube. If the jet plane doesn't extend in front of your screen - you have a problem somewhere.




wow lots of pop out in that demo. any other good demos on youtube?


----------



## Mysto

Pop-outs have their uses. First - the wow factor. If someone comes over to see the 3D tv they want to see pop-outs.


In movies they can add to the effect. The hand reaching to the audience in Dial M for Murder would be an example.


They can bring you into the action. In House of Wax (at the theater) it appear that Charles Bronson comes from the audience into the screen. What a rush.


The theory that you are going through the lens doesn't work for me. What lens? A well done movie eliminates the lens and camera as it immerses you into the story.


A well designed pop out can do the same thing.


I am still curios to see if anyone has seen a pop-out on their tv that goes beyond 12-18 inches from their screen and if so what screen size you have.


----------



## McGriddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mysto* /forum/post/21663200
> 
> 
> I am still curios to see if anyone has seen a pop-out on their tv that goes beyond 12-18 inches from their screen and if so what screen size you have.



I can't say that I've seen anything really pop out more than about 25% (for me, that's about 24+ inches from the screen). My screen is 63" and I'm sitting at about 9 feet using active OEM glasses. However, we haven't watched everything out there like the IMAX films... so the distance is likely source related. Going to check out the LG Youtube demo asap!


Edit: I can't get my Samsung TV to switch to 3D mode (SBS) while in the Youtube app it seems.







Anyone know a solution?


----------



## blastermaster




> Quote:
> I am still curios to see if anyone has seen a pop-out on their tv that goes beyond 12-18 inches from their screen and if so what screen size you have.



Potato cod scene in Imax Under the Sea. I have an Optoma HD3300 projector with ~112" screen when in 16:9 mode and that freaky looking thing is right in the room with me (at least 10 feet into the room and I sit around 14 feet from the screen). It's especially weird when you pause the scene. Very cool, though. Also, there's a water droplet in the beginning of Imax: Grand Canyon that comes right out of the screen and hovers for a bit.


----------



## WynsWrld98

Zombie on the $3K and up Front Projector Forum posted that he has seen ALL domestic and import 3D titles and says Sammy's Adventure 3D BluRay has the best pop out effects of them all. Anyone seen it? He posted link to it: http://www.yesasia.com/us/sammys-adv...0-en/info.html


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WynsWrld98* /forum/post/21665315
> 
> 
> Zombie on the $3K and up Front Projector Forum posted that he has seen ALL domestic and import 3D titles and says Sammy's Adventure 3D BluRay has the best pop out effects of them all. Anyone seen it? He posted link to it: http://www.yesasia.com/us/sammys-adv...0-en/info.html





Pretty damn good movie but majority of popups happen way too fast. Still a solid 3D movie. I bought it for $21.99 on vudu.


----------



## g_bartman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pete* /forum/post/20641075
> 
> 
> I saw "The Ultimate Wave Tahiti 3D" (Imax) recently on a 110" screen with a SIM2 Lumis 3D projector, and the pop out scenes were incredible and fun. There's one scene at the beginning where the solar system is floating out in the room with rotating planets and moons...a real breathtaking moment. Surfboard tips also extended into the room. This is a great demo disc for 3D. I wonder if these types of 3D moments can be equated to the ping pong of early stereo hi fi demonstrations or the 360 panning of quadraphonic?



I have a 108" screen and agree that ultimate wave is a very good 3d presentation. There is a scene where fish are so close you can reach out and touch them.


----------



## cathoderaytube

I sometimes put a post-it note on the tv screen to easily see what's appearing in front or behind the screen. You may find there is more popout than you think.


----------



## tory40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2D3D* /forum/post/21658710
> 
> 
> This is a pretty good one to see some cool popouts . Lemme know how you like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUsqwaeDekM



WOW! Now thats some popout.


----------



## CINERAMAX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josh Z* /forum/post/20628933
> 
> 
> I'll be honest, I have almost never seen any "popout" on either of my 3D screens (JVC projector and Vizio TV). In almost all cases, the screen is a window that everything extends back from, even in cases where it seems obvious that the filmmakers intended for something to extend beyond the screen (such as gratuitous shots of bullets and throwing stars flying at the camera in Resident Evil Afterlife).
> 
> 
> I have seen "popout" in theaters, however.



A big bright screen is needed for maximum popout, also fidging with s gamma on a cinema projector (we have a Barco 4k with a reald z-screen) can increase the appearance of pop out as it detaches objects from background. Having very good lenses also helps.


The reald polarised system is more efficient than the dolby color wheel therefore for single projector RealD creams Dolby, on two projectors the jury is still out.


But in general bigger+brighter=better negative parallax perception .


----------



## MentalDistortion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mysto* /forum/post/21663200
> 
> 
> Pop-outs have their uses. First - the wow factor. If someone comes over to see the 3D tv they want to see pop-outs.
> 
> 
> In movies they can add to the effect. The hand reaching to the audience in Dial M for Murder would be an example.
> 
> 
> They can bring you into the action. In House of Wax (at the theater) it appear that Charles Bronson comes from the audience into the screen. What a rush.
> 
> 
> The theory that you are going through the lens doesn't work for me. What lens? A well done movie eliminates the lens and camera as it immerses you into the story.
> 
> 
> A well designed pop out can do the same thing.
> 
> 
> I am still curios to see if anyone has seen a pop-out on their tv that goes beyond 12-18 inches from their screen and if so what screen size you have.



sammys adventure, the potatoe cod scene in under the sea, the tahiti documentary, and the LG youtube demo are a few that i can think of that had extreme pop out.


im using a cheapo 50 inch lg plasma that i got at frys for 600 with 2 free glasses.


----------



## Wesley Hester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blastermaster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Potato cod scene in Imax Under the Sea. I have an Optoma HD3300 projector with ~112" screen when in 16:9 mode and that freaky looking thing is right in the room with me (at least 10 feet into the room and I sit around 14 feet from the screen). It's especially weird when you pause the scene. Very cool, though. Also, there's a water droplet in the beginning of Imax: Grand Canyon that comes right out of the screen and hovers for a bit.



The potato cod scene is what I think of when I think pop out. I have the 92" Mits rear projection set. It comes out into my living room and I perceive I could reach out and touch it even though I'm over 10' away from the HDTV. I agree about the water droplet in the Canyon disc also.

I have dozens of 3D titles and none have that same "several perceived feet" out from my screen. Objects free floating and not touched by the screen frame appear to pop out more/ better. Most titles have great depth: just mostly into the screen.

Just got Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D (have the earlier 3D red/ blue Blu-ray) and I think it has some good gimmicky fun pop out that looks pretty good.


----------



## kkpro

Hands down for me is Journey to the Center of the Earth. It had more in your face 3-D than anything I have yet to see. This is a good thing, because the movie could not stand on its own merits with out the effect. The sound was top notch also.

I wish more 3-D could be like this. This is what I think of when some one mentions 3-D. The rest is OK to look at but I would rather watch the 2-D version of a lot of movies. Journey is definetly a demo disc for me.


----------



## Wesley Hester

It's a good demo disc for 3D when you have friends over that have never seen 3D and want to see some and you don't want to swap out multi discs and cue up particular scenes of each.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21673801
> 
> 
> It's a good demo disc for 3D when you have friends over that have never seen 3D and want to see some and you don't want to swap out multi discs and cue up particular scenes of each.



Come again!?


----------



## jbug

I just saw Journey 2 and the 3D was ok. It had some pop out moments but the story, acting, dialogue and direction I found very lacking. I won't be buying the BD.


----------



## Wesley Hester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2D3D* /forum/post/21673889
> 
> 
> Come again!?



People looking for 3D generally want to see pop out [IN MY EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS I KNOW OF AND NOT THOSE I DON'T KNOW ABOUT; THIS ALSO EXCLUDES PEOPLE WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT 3D, HOME THEATER AND/OR DON'T CARE ABOUT IT WHATSOEVER]. To show them what they want [THE FAMILY AND FRIENDS I KNOW], I usually have multiple titles/discs ready with one or two scenes on each one [THAT IS EACH DISC MAY HAVE JUST 1 OR 2 SCENES OF POP-OUT ON IT REQUIRING MULTIPLE DISCS TO SHOW DIFFERENT SCENES WITH A TOTAL OF MORE THAT 2 OVERALL]. A disc like Journey to the Center of the Earth has multiple pop out scenes through out the movie. It's not the greatest movie (I don't personally hate it or anything that extreme though) but it's easier to skip to each pop out scene and just let the disc play through [ABLE TO SHOW MULTIPLE SCENES OF POP OUT JUST BY SKIPPING OR FAST FORWARDING WITHOUT EVER SWAPPING A DISC].


Hopefully less puzzled now? This isn't the Rocket Science Forums.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21676003
> 
> 
> People looking for 3D generally want to see pop out. To show them what they want, I usually have multiple titles/discs ready with one or two scenes on each one. A disc like Journey to the Center of the Earth has multiple pop out scenes through out the movie. It's not the greatest movie (I don't personally hate it or anything that extreme though) but it's easier to skip to each pop out scene and just let the disc play through.
> 
> 
> Hopefully less puzzled now? This isn't the Rocket Science Forums.



Well your post didnt mention a specific movie , nor did you quote someone to indicate that you were talking about disc you use to demo, so reading your post as standalone as it is, in an open topic thread about 3D popouts would be a bit confusing unless of course one can read anothers mind


----------



## cbcdesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21676003
> 
> 
> People looking for 3D generally want to see pop out.



That may be your experience but everybody I have demo'd 3D too hasn't had any expectations one way or the other and were just as impressed with depth as pop out.


----------



## Wesley Hester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2D3D* /forum/post/21677131
> 
> 
> Well your post didnt mention a specific movie , nor did you quote someone to indicate that you were talking about disc you use to demo, so reading your post as standalone as it is, in an open topic thread about 3D popouts would be a bit confusing unless of course one can read anothers mind



Or just let is stand on its own merit without comment.










"It's a good demo disc..." was referring to the post above it: AKA Journey to the Center of the Earth.


----------



## Wesley Hester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cbcdesign* /forum/post/21677273
> 
> 
> That may be your experience but everybody I have demo'd 3D too hasn't had any expectations one way or the other and were just as impressed with depth as pop out.



Everyone I've been asked to show 3D (family and friends) must have been taken in by the print and tv media's advertising of 3D as not just leaping OFF the screen but OUT of the screen as well. Advertising doesn't show the depth INTO the screen much if at all. They could but choose not to: trading flash/wow for realism.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21677802
> 
> 
> Or just let is stand on its own merit without comment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "It's a good demo disc..." was referring to the post above it: AKA Journey to the Center of the Earth.



Well with so many posts under your belt , you'd think you would know how to quote  lol all good bro


----------



## Wesley Hester

Actually, it's preferred to answer post immediately above with a follow up post and not to use quotes.


----------



## RedOctober205




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21678478
> 
> 
> Actually, it's preferred to answer post immediately above with a follow up post and not to use quotes.



...according to who exactly?


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21678478
> 
> 
> Actually, it's preferred to answer post immediately above with a follow up post and not to use quotes.



Yes boss!


----------



## Wesley Hester

Mr. common sense and his wife duh.










All the posters in all the threads that haven't used quotes in a post past the first one. There's quite a few though I haven't counted them or anything.


Quotes are great when you are responding to a post on a previous page or to more than one person though.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21678586
> 
> 
> Mr. common sense and his wife duh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the posters in all the threads that haven't used quotes in a post past the first one. There's quite a few though I haven't counted them or anything.
> 
> 
> Quotes are great when you are responding to a post on a previous page or to more than one person though.



Quotes are also great when you wanna add something to what someone said. I have never thought that a post without any quotes is a direct response to whats above that post, cause sometimes when you post that to whomever posted above you, someone else might post something else between.


Example, your stand alone post was about Journey. However during the time you were typing yours, if someone else wouldve posted something about another 3D movie, then your post all of sudden seemed like its about the other movie. Quotes are great , use them man ! theyre free


----------



## buonforte

As far back as the 50's when people went to see 3D movies at the theater, they did so for the fun and excitement of something poping out of the screen and into their face. It caused them to duck, scream, jump out of their seat but most importantly, it was fun.


Flash forward to today. We have advanced technology and can have our own 3D theaters in our homes. BUT...we want good 3D movies! Nobody cares about depth. Yes, it's nice but most people want in your face 3D. Watching a 3D movie should, for the most part, take place outside of your TV screen and in your living room. Isn't that what 3D stands for, a third dimension. A dimension that extends beyond the TV and into your living room.


Only a handful of movies at this point can do that. Sammy's Adventure does it best, in my opinion.


So, to the movie studios: make 3D fun and exciting. We don't need conversions of old titles that will never look that good anyway. We want the reason for buying a 3D TV. The 3rd dimension. the out of the screen and in your living room experience. Depth is nice but it is NOT 3D.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buonforte* /forum/post/21679426
> 
> 
> As far back as the 50's when people went to see 3D movies at the theater, they did so for the fun and excitement of something poping out of the screen and into their face. It caused them to duck, scream, jump out of their seat but most importantly, it was fun.
> 
> 
> Flash forward to today. We have advanced technology and can have our own 3D theaters in our homes. BUT...we want good 3D movies! Nobody cares about depth. Yes, it's nice but most people want in your face 3D. Watching a 3D movie should, for the most part, take place outside of your TV screen and in your living room. Isn't that what 3D stands for, a third dimension. A dimension that extends beyond the TV and into your living room.
> 
> 
> Only a handful of movies at this point can do that. Sammy's Adventure does it best, in my opinion.
> 
> 
> So, to the movie studios: make 3D fun and exciting. We don't need conversions of old titles that will never look that good anyway. We want the reason for buying a 3D TV. The 3rd dimension. the out of the screen and in your living room experience. Depth is nice but it is NOT 3D.


----------



## buonforte

To further add confusion and dissapointment to the consumer, let's take the manufacturer's 3D TV ads. I've posted a few of them below. Every one of them shows a picture expanding beyond the screen. But in reality, that is not usually what you're going to get with the majority of the current crop of 3D movies. So, the customer doesn't really see what's being advertised on their sets like they thought they'd get in the picture and they certainly not going to spend 30 to 40 dollars of more for a 3D movie that falls short and doesn't live up to all the hoopla. So, 3D could fail unless studios start releasing quality out of the TV and in your Living Room 3D movies and at reasonable prices.


----------



## Toddgabweg

Anyone see how Disney does 3D at their parks like "It's tough to be a bug" or "Mickey's philharmagic" among many others. The pop out is amazing - inches from your face.... These 3d attractions are getting old, but I have yet to experience anything like it at home or at the movie theater.


----------



## buonforte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Toddgabweg* /forum/post/21679673
> 
> 
> Anyone see how Disney does 3D at their parks like "It's tough to be a bug" or "Mickey's philharmagic" among many others. The pop out is amazing - inches from your face.... These 3d attractions are getting old, but I have yet to experience anything like it at home or at the movie theater.



I'm sure it looks amazing. I feel if you can't do it right, don't do it all. If home 3D is not going to offer the knock your socks off experience, people are NOT going to buy into it this time. And so far, it has not quite been, knock your socks off. Yes, there are one or two movies that look incredible but that's not going to cut it. EVERY ONE must look incredible for this to be accepted by the masses and succeed.


----------



## BillKen

I still feel one of the best 3D demo discs is Yogi Bear. It's a bad movie on its own but the depth and pop out are both very well done if you can take the movie on those merits alone. Otherwise it's just a bad movie (even if my 7 & 5 year old liked it).


I can't wait to see how Hugo is though.


----------



## 2D3D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillKen* /forum/post/21679921
> 
> 
> I still feel one of the best 3D demo discs is Yogi Bear. It's a bad movie on its own but the depth and pop out are both very well done if you can take the movie on those merits alone. Otherwise it's just a bad movie (even if my 7 & 5 year old liked it).
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see how Hugo is though.



Yogi has tons of depth. But only real popout is the nacho chips scene.


----------



## BillKen

The fireworks scene is good too. Most 3D movies I've seen only have a handful of good pop out anyway. Yogi has god depth throughout plus a couple of exceptional pop out scenes. IMAX under the sea is good as well - Kung Fu Panda 2 also.


----------



## cbcdesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21677835
> 
> 
> Everyone I've been asked to show 3D (family and friends) must have been taken in by the print and tv media's advertising of 3D as not just leaping OFF the screen but OUT of the screen as well. Advertising doesn't show the depth INTO the screen much if at all. They could but choose not to: trading flash/wow for realism.



Yeah, that is true, the ads do tend to show people and objects leaping off the screen. I think they give people a somewhat misguided idea of what 3D is really alkl about though.


----------



## kkpro

I agree with most posts. I guess when I think 3-D, I think pop-out not depth. If there is nothing making me duck or dodge, I would probably enjoy the 2-D version. Seeing Captain America in both versions for example. I would prefer the 2-D. 3-D didn't add enough for me want to switch versions.


----------



## tory40

Some movie theaters are huge enough to pop out a platoon of tanks. What would that look like at home though? I haven't seen enough popout to know. Tiny tanks? Or small and far away, but still pop'ed out?


----------



## ferl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kkpro* /forum/post/21682179
> 
> 
> Seeing Captain America in both versions for example. I would prefer the 2-D. 3-D didn't add enough for me want to switch versions.



Captain America was a conversion. Taking that into consideration, I would agree. 2D is preferable to a conversion. People talk about "good" conversions, but I've yet to see one I would call good.


----------



## WynsWrld98




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Toddgabweg* /forum/post/21679673
> 
> 
> Anyone see how Disney does 3D at their parks like "It's tough to be a bug" or "Mickey's philharmagic" among many others. The pop out is amazing - inches from your face.... These 3d attractions are getting old, but I have yet to experience anything like it at home or at the movie theater.



I totally agree about Disney's 3D presentations, pretty incredible. Universal Studios amusement park has also has had some really good 3D presentations. So what is the chance any of these could be released on 3D BluRay?


I would pay good money for a 3D BluRay demo disc that had scenes of amazing 3D popout like is shown on Disneyland, Universal Studios, etc.


----------



## Don Landis

As a shooter of 3D, producing the desired "popout" effect is pretty easy if you know the process. The trick is to increase inter axial lens separation and then zoom in. The increased IA will add z depth range to the scene and the zoom in on an object will pull the object toward the viewer.


So many today use fixed IA camcorders and film rigs for production so to produce a popout becomes a bit more difficult as you have lost your control to vary the Z depth. It still can be achieved but a bit more difficult and the flexibility is not as great. With fixed IA camcorder, the popout is done by controlling the camera to subject distance and zooming in but then the objects look flat and take on that cardboard cutout look. Focus becomes a problem in this case and shooting in very bright light with stopped down lens helps. Photographers will understand this.


So, with this understanding of HOW it's done and equipped with the knowledge of how a movie is shot, don't expect too much popout when the film is made with fixed IA film rigs such as IMAX 3D cameras. You can anticipate better popout when the film is made using SBS or over/under twin cameras where the IA can be varied as the director desires for controlling the Z depth range.


----------



## Don Landis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buonforte* /forum/post/21679635
> 
> 
> To further add confusion and dissapointment to the consumer, let's take the manufacturer's 3D TV ads. I've posted a few of them below. Every one of them shows a picture expanding beyond the screen. But in reality, that is not usually what you're going to get with the majority of the current crop of 3D movies. So, the customer doesn't really see what's being advertised on their sets like they thought they'd get in the picture and they certainly not going to spend 30 to 40 dollars of more for a 3D movie that falls short and doesn't live up to all the hoopla. So, 3D could fail unless studios start releasing quality out of the TV and in your Living Room 3D movies and at reasonable prices.



Well, we'll just have to consider this artistic license.









The fact is there will never be an image that pops beyond the frustum of the pyramid from the borders of the screen to your eyes. It will be cut off. I don't sell 3D TV's so I don't know what sort of trouble the sales people have explaining the scientific impossibility of the ad. However, I suspect this isn't a real problem or ad people would stop doing it. It's one of those illusions in advertising that gets people fired up of the concept and then it's the present content that needs to keep them excited. That content must always place a good story as top priority, a good quality production and acting second, and last good 3D production technicals. Way off in the distance might be the gimmicks but novelty soon wears off. People will need those initial fundamentals of entertainment to keep holding their interest, story, acting, and technical quality.


----------



## supermr2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don Landis* /forum/post/20640393
> 
> 
> That's because Cameron understands how stereography works. The formula for positioning an object in the z axis doesn't change based on how big the screen is or how close you sit to a screen. It's kind of like the aspect ratio where a 16 x 9 screen is 16 x 9 whether it is 160 ft. wide by 90 ft tall or 160 inches wide by 90 inches tall. Parallax z-axis positioning is a relative position based on a pyramidal cone where each corner of the base of the cone is an imaginary line from that corner to the center of your head where the apex of the cone passes through each eye lens, to be precise. Objects will always appear to be larger the closer they are, therefore an object must be quite small to be seen inside the frustum of the cone. If it's size extends beyond it will appear cut off. This is why a large image like a car cannot get too close or it will appear chopped off while a sword or cue stick can reach out and poke you in the face. An object will never extend outside that frustum and never pass to your side and behind you. It doesn't matter whether you are watching a big IMAX screen or a little 24" screen. The position is relative to the size of the screen and your distance to the screen. So, if you see an object that is located popout 50% between you and the screen in the theater, it will still be 50% distance on your 32" 3D monitor at home. Comfort zone- This will vary for different individuals but sitting too close to fill your peripheral vision will greatly reduce the popout effect distance, however it will increase eye strain because your eyes will be focusing attention to greatly diverged images, relative to sitting further away where the cone of vision has a narrower angle. A 60 degree angle on the cone is about maximum for 3D stereography.
> 
> 
> What may need adjusting for the home theater vs. the big screen is camera motion as shaky cam on a big screen is far more jarring than on a small screen. In 3D this difference becomes even more annoying. Directors need to listen to the people to find out what they feel comfortable with. Personally, I find shooting 3D far more critical as to scene movement and transitions. Too fast and it can cause the 3D effect to come unglued so to speak. It's a tricky juggling act. We really don't know yet how the audience will react to many of the things they accepted in 2D when watching 3D.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to really understand how this works, Get a copy of the text 3D Movie Making by Mendiburu. He has lots of drawings to go with the formulas that explain it all.



Thank you for this post. Very informative. *edit* I read it the first time but after rereading 8 months later it made much more sense.


----------



## joed32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kkpro* /forum/post/21673294
> 
> 
> Hands down for me is Journey to the Center of the Earth. It had more in your face 3-D than anything I have yet to see. This is a good thing, because the movie could not stand on its own merits with out the effect. The sound was top notch also.
> 
> I wish more 3-D could be like this. This is what I think of when some one mentions 3-D. The rest is OK to look at but I would rather watch the 2-D version of a lot of movies. Journey is definetly a demo disc for me.



I just got it yesterday and watched about 15 minutes and the pop outs are awesome. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## rmag119

I am having problems with pop outs on my 1 month old 73" Mitsubishi WD-73c11. I have the Panasonic bdt210 and Dimensional Optics active shutter glasses, I sit around 10 feet away from the tv. The depth on my TV is awesome but the pop outs hardly break the screen. I have watched several movies that should have significant popout (resident evil: afterlife, Avatar, etc...) but nothing really breaks the plane. I adjusted the pop out level on the player to max but it hardly helped. I went to best buy and watched the Potato Cod on a 50" screen and had no problem seeing that pop out and almost touch me in the face. My question is what settings can I adjust to fix this? I know I have a problem, but when I research this, all I see are people saying check your settings, but I have no idea WHAT to check. Any help is appreciated as this is quite frustrating.


----------



## RolandL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buonforte* /forum/post/21679426
> 
> 
> As far back as the 50's when people went to see 3D movies at the theater, they did so for the fun and excitement of something poping out of the screen and into their face. It caused them to duck, scream, jump out of their seat but most importantly, it was fun.
> 
> 
> Flash forward to today. We have advanced technology and can have our own 3D theaters in our homes. BUT...we want good 3D movies! Nobody cares about depth. Yes, it's nice but most people want in your face 3D. Watching a 3D movie should, for the most part, take place outside of your TV screen and in your living room. Isn't that what 3D stands for, a third dimension. A dimension that extends beyond the TV and into your living room.
> 
> 
> Only a handful of movies at this point can do that. Sammy's Adventure does it best, in my opinion.
> 
> 
> So, to the movie studios: make 3D fun and exciting. We don't need conversions of old titles that will never look that good anyway. We want the reason for buying a 3D TV. The 3rd dimension. the out of the screen and in your living room experience. Depth is nice but it is NOT 3D.



I enjoy the 3D pop outs too. But, most of the 50 3-D films released between 1952-1952 did not have a lot of out-of-the-screen scenes. Columbia had the most - (FORT TI, CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER, MAN IN THE DARK, SPOOKS).


----------



## johnny905




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmag119* /forum/post/21699363
> 
> 
> I am having problems with pop outs on my 1 month old 73" Mitsubishi WD-73c11. I have the Panasonic bdt210 and Dimensional Optics active shutter glasses, I sit around 10 feet away from the tv. The depth on my TV is awesome but the pop outs hardly break the screen. I have watched several movies that should have significant popout (resident evil: afterlife, Avatar, etc...) but nothing really breaks the plane. I adjusted the pop out level on the player to max but it hardly helped. I went to best buy and watched the Potato Cod on a 50" screen and had no problem seeing that pop out and almost touch me in the face. My question is what settings can I adjust to fix this? I know I have a problem, but when I research this, all I see are people saying check your settings, but I have no idea WHAT to check. Any help is appreciated as this is quite frustrating.



Have you tried watching the potato cod (under the sea imax) on your TV?


I have the same issue where I see very little pop out in most movies that others have said our great (like Resident Evil Afterlife). But I bought Under the Sea and the potato cod scene looks just as great on my TV (Sony HX800 55") as it did at Best Buy.


So I'm just more confused than ever.


----------



## Wesley Hester

You can just look at that Potato COD scene as an excellent way to verify your system can produce pop out correctly (no reason it shouldn't) and look for any cross-talk or other issues (hopefully there aren't any). Pausing it will allow you to check different seating positions to find the best and worse positions. From there, any movies without that much pop out you'll know were made that way. For me, most have about a foot or so at their extreme with most depth inward. James Cameron's "good 3D" appears to hold mostly to those ideals: calling TF3 good too. I'm trying to explain this to the family and friends I mentioned in earlier posts about the inward 3D. Still, it's frustrating to have someone come over to watch TF3 or some other movie and put on the glasses (holding them with their hands adjusting them and flipping them up and back down over their eyes) saying "I don't know, I don't see it". I think from now on that I'll just show them the Potato Cod scene, scenes from Journey to the Center of the Earth and call it a day.


----------



## jbug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnny905* /forum/post/21700227
> 
> 
> Have you tried watching the potato cod (under the sea imax) on your TV?
> 
> 
> I have the same issue where I see very little pop out in most movies that others have said our great (like Resident Evil Afterlife). But I bought Under the Sea and the potato cod scene looks just as great on my TV (Sony HX800 55") as it did at Best Buy.
> 
> 
> So I'm just more confused than ever.



I have REA and can't remember any pop outs. Avatar is a 3D movie that is about depth and not pop out. Besides Under The Sea, try Final Destination 3D (snake coming out), Final Destination 5 3D and Monsters vs. Aliens.


----------



## WynsWrld98




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21703522
> 
> 
> You can just look at that Potato COD scene as an excellent way to verify your system can produce pop out correctly (no reason it shouldn't) and look for any cross-talk or other issues (hopefully there aren't any). Pausing it will allow you to check different seating positions to find the best and worse positions. From there, any movies without that much pop out you'll know were made that way. For me, most have about a foot or so at their extreme with most depth inward. James Cameron's "good 3D" appears to hold mostly to those ideals: calling TF3 good too. I'm trying to explain this to the family and friends I mentioned in earlier posts about the inward 3D. Still, it's frustrating to have someone come over to watch TF3 or some other movie and put on the glasses (holding them with their hands adjusting them and flipping them up and back down over their eyes) saying "I don't know, I don't see it". I think from now on that I'll just show them the Potato Cod scene, scenes from Journey to the Center of the Earth and call it a day.



Can someone post what minute/second the infamous Potato Cod scene is in Under the Sea? I just received this 3D Bluray and don't have time to watch the whole thing but do want to go straight to the infamous Potato Cod scene.


----------



## ray105




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WynsWrld98* /forum/post/21707257
> 
> 
> Can someone post what minute/second the infamous Potato Cod scene is in Under the Sea? I just received this 3D Bluray and don't have time to watch the whole thing but do want to go straight to the infamous Potato Cod scene.



Don't know the minute/second off hand, but it is only a couple (maybe one?) of chapter skips into the movie (even though it's actually towards the end of the movie). Just chapter skip until you see an above water shot of dark rough waters. From there it's only a minute or two before there will be a fish staring you in the face.










This is the only scene that has actually "wowed" me similar to the first time I saw 3D at Disney. Sure there are some other good scenes/movies, but this is the only one that made me stop, rewind, and watch over and over. It's proof that great 3D can be had at home.


----------



## jbug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ray105* /forum/post/21708334
> 
> 
> Don't know the minute/second off hand, but it is only a couple (maybe one?) of chapter skips into the movie (even though it's actually towards the end of the movie). Just chapter skip until you see an above water shot of dark rough waters. From there it's only a minute or two before there will be a fish staring you in the face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the only scene that has actually "wowed" me similar to the first time I saw 3D at Disney. Sure there are some other good scenes/movies, but this is the only one that made me stop, rewind, and watch over and over. It's proof that great 3D can be had at home.



The snake scene from Final Destination is just as good. It scared my granddaughter to tears. I also showed ot to some ladies who were at our house for a baby shower. They had never seen 3D before and they got so involved that they ended up watching the whole movie. It made me smile at the joy they got from watching that scene and others.


----------



## VFC

I just got out my carpenter's tape measure and checked the amount of pop-out of the potato cod fish.


I paused the movie at the peak of the pop-out; just after Jim Carey said "get" in the line "let's face it, when you're a cod you need all the help you can get". That's around 21:00 minutes into the film.


My eyes were 66" from the screen and the cod's nose was 24" from my eyes. So that means the cod came out 42" from the screen; or 64%.


BTW - The TV is a Sharp 835U with a Panasonic BDT210 Blu-ray player. I changed active shutter glasses from the Sharp model that came with the TV to the iTrek and the pop-out distance did not change.


----------



## ray105




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbug* /forum/post/21708419
> 
> 
> The snake scene from Final Destination is just as good. It scared my granddaughter to tears. I also showed ot to some ladies who were at our house for a baby shower. They had never seen 3D before and they got so involved that they ended up watching the whole movie. It made me smile at the joy they got from watching that scene and others.



Was this the original Final Destination or the new part 5? I might have to pick up this title.


----------



## johnny905




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WynsWrld98* /forum/post/21707257
> 
> 
> Can someone post what minute/second the infamous Potato Cod scene is in Under the Sea? I just received this 3D Bluray and don't have time to watch the whole thing but do want to go straight to the infamous Potato Cod scene.



20m:58s

http://3d-tv-gaming.blogspot.com/201...t-moments.html


----------



## WynsWrld98




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnny905* /forum/post/21712517
> 
> 
> 20m:58s
> 
> http://3d-tv-gaming.blogspot.com/201...t-moments.html



Perfect, thanks so much!


----------



## paul?

Just after the 44 minute mark of Hugo, Sacha Baron Cohen's character leans toward Hugo, and on my TV his face definitely emerges out of the screen and into the room. I found it to be as impressive as the potato cod.


----------



## VFC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paul?*  /forum/post/21717915
> 
> 
> Just after the 44 minute mark of Hugo, Sacha Baron Cohen's character leans toward Hugo, and on my TV his face definitely emerges out of the screen and into the room. I found it to be as impressive as the potato cod.



That scene is an excellent example of how to use a pop-out effectively. It naturally brings out the emotion when a confrontational person invades your space and gets in your face.


It makes me think of other ways pop-outs can be used with a similar emotional reaction for the viewer; someone waving their finger inches away from your face, someone moving in close and screaming at you, etc. The TV screen defines the normal distance boundary, and the pop-out simulates someone crossing into your space; causing the brain to generate a natural reaction (annoyance, fear, anger, hostility, etc).


----------



## jbug

One thing that makes a big difference is how slow or fast the object breaks the plane and how long the object dallies when it is out. The codfish comes out slowly and therefore the effect much more immersive. The snake in FD 3 comes out quicker but lingers long enough for you to get something out of it. Objects that come out too fast and don't linger are less immersive.


----------



## ray105




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbug* /forum/post/21718466
> 
> 
> One thing that makes a big difference is how slow or fast the object breaks the plane and how long the object dallies when it is out. The codfish comes out slowly and therefore the effect much more immersive. The snake in FD 3 comes out quicker but lingers long enough for you to get something out of it. Objects that come out too fast and don't linger are less immersive.



This is what I was trying to explain in another thread when discussing my disappointment with Sammy's Adventure. A lot of the pop-out was quick and some extended beyond the edge of the screen (which distracts me). I wonder if me having Lasik surgery has any effect on my ability to focus on quick objects coming out of the screen?


BTW jbug - you didn't say which Final Destination has this snake scene. I think only the first and the latest (number 5) are available on 3D blu-ray, correct?


----------



## jbug

Sorry Ray105 I meant to say FD 3D which is the 4th in the series and a fine representative for live action 3D with it's deep rich colors and nice pop outs as well as depth. I don't go looking for movies that show the numerous ways a person can die but these have nice 3D.


----------



## WynsWrld98

Holy 3D, Sammys Adventure 3D Bluray showed up today, AMAZING animation, some really great popouts and all of the depth and animation is A+. The people who did this need to be hired by Pixar and teach them how it's done.


I also saw the famous Potato Fish scene from Under the Sea, paused it and it looks like it's nose is 5' in front of the pause button on the screen.


Saw no ghosting whatsoever in any of this with my Epson 6010 with glasses set for highest lumens and in 3D Dynamic mode. Just incredible!!!!


----------



## charlievoviii

I own almost every 3D blurays, The only two movie that have good in your face pop out effects.


1. A Turtle's Tale: Sammy's Adventures "best pop out of the screen period" The whole movie is pretty much in your face


2. Avatar "best 3D depth" "Anytime i have friends/family over I pop in the movie and show them the night scene where Jake and Neytiri running on the the tree branch, the part where a bunch of glowing flowers or whatever you call it, flying around and landing on Jake. I can see those all over the room out of the screen.


3. Journey to the center of the earth "It have good amount of pop out moments, like one of scene i can see water splash in my hometheater room. 


MY setup:

Epson 5010

Stewart Studiotek 100" screen


----------



## jbug

What about the snake in Final Destination 3D, the cod fish in one of those Imax features, and Susan's hand, and the paddle ball in Monsters vs Aliens to name a few. Those are among the best and well known.


----------



## ozer19




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buonforte* /forum/post/21679635
> 
> 
> To further add confusion and dissapointment to the consumer, let's take the manufacturer's 3D TV ads. I've posted a few of them below. Every one of them shows a picture expanding beyond the screen. But in reality, that is not usually what you're going to get with the majority of the current crop of 3D movies. So, the customer doesn't really see what's being advertised on their sets like they thought they'd get in the picture and they certainly not going to spend 30 to 40 dollars of more for a 3D movie that falls short and doesn't live up to all the hoopla. So, 3D could fail unless studios start releasing quality out of the TV and in your Living Room 3D movies and at reasonable prices.



I dont want to rehash this topic and this is not an attack to your comment.


But I think you guys were forgetting something. The advertisements are done in 2D. How else would you expect them to simulate a 3D image on a 2D media? They cannot show depth or they cannot show "popout." They have to make that astronaut come out of the screen and pass the borders of the TV in order to show you this TV is 3D.


I am not affiliated with any manufacturer or ad companies.










I challenge someone to show the Potato Cod scene on a magazine ad


----------



## ozer19

By the way, a great show off scene is the short movie they play at the and of Despicable Me. Where 2 of the minions are playing who can pop out of the screen further game










The ladder and the tape measure slapped me in the head a couple times


----------



## thepiecesfit

I too have been struggling getting pop out on my new panasonic ST50 Plasma. I found getting better depth by calibrating the display using the game mode. Suprisingly enough the game mode has better brightness than the custom mode and handles motion and crosstalk better.


I have screened a bunch of movies and the pop out is a bit lacking on this set. On my old sony bravia LED certain scenes in Avatar and Alice in Wonderland were floating in the room and poking you in the face. The TV is very good at the window effect. But not much actually pops out. Maybe very little. I am using a PS3 so perhaps using a real 3d player would yield different results. Just sharing my 2 cents.


----------



## Deja Vu

Pop out -- At the end of Imax Space Station where the astronauts toss fruit at the camera and it floats out of the screen at you. There's a scene in M vs A where Susan has the ray gun and turns with it and it pops way out of the screen. Most movies have very little pop out -- I think the directors are showing a lot of restraint because of all the accusations about 3D and gimmicks. If used once in awhile I think the "pop out" is very effective. The "cod scene" is used in the stores as a demo all the time because it is one of the few effective "pop out" scenes and it wows.


----------



## bravia3D

Watch my Youtube 3D video on your TV and if you don't get popout from this your TV has problems!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf97-rsZa_I


----------



## tomtastic




> Quote:
> I challenge someone to show the Potato Cod scene on a magazine ad



Easy, just make the picture inside a TV and have the image go beyond the TV screen. I've seen it in ads before and you get the idea that it's in 3D.

 


I think there just needs to be more popout 3D period. I am a little disappointed in not finding more. So far I've only seen it once, the potato cod. I have around 15 3D movies now. If there have been other scenes, they were just too fast to be noticed which means they weren't done right and I don't consider them pop out. When I bought my TV I expected to see it in every movie but I'm learning it just isn't done that much. I like it, I want more of it, I think if they're going to bother with 3D at all, every movie should have some popout effects. If not, I'll just get the 2D version.


----------



## joed32

Which 15 movies do you have? Some 3D movies don't have pop outs but most have at least some and others have lots of it.


----------



## am1001

good clip for pop out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wz7j5TBJyg&playnext=1&list=PLC20CDB22A63DE705&feature=results_main


----------



## tomtastic

Ok, I have 22 right now, I'll be getting a few more in the next week too (Brave, Amazing Spiderman for sure.) I went ahead and added a brief review of each, skip past it, read it if you like for what's it's worth.


These are all viewed on a passive LG 65" on Blu ray


Avatar
This was a really boring movie when I first saw it on DVD when it was released. I thought I'd give it another try in 3D and I'll admit, it was a little better, but the story line is just plain stupid. It's basically Dances With Wolves. Cowboys vs Indians. 3D was all depth, which looked okay, I wouldn't say I was amazed with it, but the colors were really good. No popout 3D.


Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter
This was just a neat movie, nice concept. Special effects were good, not over done. 3D was okay, not especially great. It was in 2.40 so the depth wasn't the best. Overall I'd recommend the 3D version, why not? When have you ever seen Abe Lincoln sleighing vampires in 3D? Popout 3D, non detected.


I, Robot
I like this film, I didn't have the Blu ray so I went ahead and got the 3D version. It's not too bad for post conversion. My wife didn't even put her glasses on, I took mine off a few times and thought it looked fine without them on as well. Putting glasses back on and you notice the 3D but it's slight. Still it's a good movie for 3D conversion. No popout (and I didn't expect any.)


Titanic
I was waiting for release day on this and thought it was really good for post conversion. I like the movie anyway, didn't have the Blu ray yet so 3D was a good upgrade option. Like I, Robot you can take your glasses off and you won't miss much, but you put glasses back on and you can see the 3D, but it is slight. No popout 3D, none expected.


Prometheus
Awesome flick, I saw this one in 3D in theater, unfortunately it was Dolby 3D which used the big bulky glasses. They were heavy, dirty, hard to clean. I will not be seeing more films in Dolby 3D. I also took my LG glasses with me, (they aren't compatible with Dolby 3D by the way, just for brightness comparison) the nice pair from the 6 pack tube to compare and they are noticeably brighter than the Dolby pair. 3D depth was pretty good. It was in 2.40 so it's limited on height. No popout 3D.


Marvel Avengers
Probably the stupidest movie I've seen in the last 5 years. Intelligence level: grade 6 or lower required. Depth was okay, nothing memorable and no popout 3D.


Imax Under the Sea
Best underwater 3D presentation I've seen so far and best example of popout 3D (and only popout 3D I've seen so far)Narration is a little soft and hard to hear with music, also a little monotone. Some minor ghosting here and there when lots of fish on screen. I think I was playing this for someone and they had to stop watching it as it was too eye straining. I could watch it 2 or 3 times a day and it wouldn't bother me. There's actually a couple popout effects. I remember another where the fish's fins protrude from the screen. The potato cod is the best. I played that for a friend and we just stood there as it swam right up to us. If you're going to buy only 1 3D movie this year, then buy IMax Under the Sea.


3D Aquarium
Oops, bought this one 6 months ago after TV and haven't even opened it yet. I'll update this post after I get a chance to view.


IMAX Space Station
I'd seen the DVD before so it wasn't any new content, really just wanted to be blown away by 3D. There are some really good depth shots above Earth. Some of the interior shots of the station aren't great. Overall, I'd recommend it. No popout 3D noticed.


IMAX Hubble
This was a BIG disappointment. Not because I was expected to be blown away by 3D but because I expected to see more images from the Hubble. Why would they release a film about the launch of the Hubble? I mean: who cares? I know the deep space images wouldn't be that great in 3D, still that's what I and my friends were expecting and we got to see about 2 or 3 minutes worth. 3D depth was ok, if you already have Space Station, save your money, it's basically the same thing and same shots. No popout 3D.


Grand Canyon Adventure
I like this little independent documentary. It's a little preachy with saving the Colorado river with Las Vegas sucking up all the water but aside from that it's a good watch. There may have been some popout in the opening credits but it didn't really stand out. There was some water effects in the title sequences, I'll need to watch it again and see if I notice anything. 3D depth was pretty good, some good daylight shots, color variation, no noticeable ghosting. Popout 3D, did I miss it?


Cave of Forgotten Dreams
This one isn't even worth the review. If you like staring at dark cave walls, listening to barely comprehensible English speaking French, give it a try. From what I've seen 3D works best with good color and lighting and it just doesn't work in dark caves. It just looks 2D all the way through and the content isn't really interesting. It would have been mildly more entertaining with UK or US team and just 2D with additional lighting.


Dinosaures Alive!
This one and Patagonia are basically the same. I think I watched this one 2nd and it have a little bit better depth and animation. Overall it was a better watch. Popout 3D: no.


Dinosaures Giants of the Patagonia
Same as Alive! but not as good overall. Animation was a little better on Alive! 3D was ok, no popout 3D


How to Train Your Dragon
Kids enjoyed this one. 3D depth was good, no ghosting noticed and story animation were good, I'd recommend it. Good re watch value. No popout 3D.


Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
Kids liked this one, not the best 3D. A lot of the colors were the same in front and background and it just didn't work well which is also attributed to the animation. Probably better in 2D. Popout 3D? None. Somewhere I read at the beginning where they are pointing? Didn't notice it extend beyond the screen so I'd have to say no.


The Polar Express
A good flick, kids enjoyed it and 3D is surprisingly good. Depth, color and animation all work really well together. Didn't notice any popout 3D.


Puss in Boots
Kids loved this one, they've seen it probably a dozen times now. I think the story and characters were a little boring, overall I think it was a step down from Shrek. 3D was okay, it's been awhile since I've seen it and nothing really stood out. No popout 3D


Tron Legacy
This was actually my first 3D Blu ray purchase. i bought it before my TV before I had decided on buying one. I mainly wanted the Blu ray and Original Tron Blu ray that was included. I think this was the only set where you got both. If I remember right I was set against buying 3D at the time I bought this set and actually said I'd never buy a 3D TV. That changed after i saw IMAX Under the Sea. Actually I haven't seen the 3D yet so I need to give this one a view. The 2D Blu ray was amazing and soundtrack was top notch.


Hugo
Good movie, 3D depth was really good and adds to the movie experience. i would recommend this one in 2D or 3D. No popout 3D noticed.


Clash of the Titans
I love these movies. I know this one was post 3D but it's still descent. At times things don't quite look like 3D so nothing really stands out. Overall it's not entirely impressive but if you like 3D it's worth it. No popout 3D


Wrath of the Titans
The sequel was filmed in 3D this time and the effect is a little better overall. Good depth and the story, effects are all fairly impressive. I can't remember seeing any popout 3D in this one.


----------



## joed32

Some good movies but you're right, not much pop out in those at all and I've seen a lot of them. "Journey to the Center of the Earth" has some good stuff and if I remember correctly "Final Destination 5" did as well.


----------



## Deja Vu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomtastic*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22569083
> 
> 
> Ok, I have 22 right now, I'll be getting a few more in the next week too (Brave, Amazing Spiderman for sure.) I went ahead and added a brief review of each, skip past it, read it if you like for what's it's worth.
> 
> These are all viewed on a passive LG 65" on Blu ray
> 
> Avatar
> This was a really boring movie when I first saw it on DVD when it was released. I thought I'd give it another try in 3D and I'll admit, it was a little better, but the story line is just plain stupid. It's basically Dances With Wolves. Cowboys vs Indians. 3D was all depth, which looked okay, I wouldn't say I was amazed with it, but the colors were really good. No popout 3D.
> Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter
> This was just a neat movie, nice concept. Special effects were good, not over done. 3D was okay, not especially great. It was in 2.40 so the depth wasn't the best. Overall I'd recommend the 3D version, why not? When have you ever seen Abe Lincoln sleighing vampires in 3D? Popout 3D, non detected.
> I, Robot
> I like this film, I didn't have the Blu ray so I went ahead and got the 3D version. It's not too bad for post conversion. My wife didn't even put her glasses on, I took mine off a few times and thought it looked fine without them on as well. Putting glasses back on and you notice the 3D but it's slight. Still it's a good movie for 3D conversion. No popout (and I didn't expect any.)
> Titanic
> I was waiting for release day on this and thought it was really good for post conversion. I like the movie anyway, didn't have the Blu ray yet so 3D was a good upgrade option. Like I, Robot you can take your glasses off and you won't miss much, but you put glasses back on and you can see the 3D, but it is slight. No popout 3D, none expected.
> Prometheus
> Awesome flick, I saw this one in 3D in theater, unfortunately it was Dolby 3D which used the big bulky glasses. They were heavy, dirty, hard to clean. I will not be seeing more films in Dolby 3D. I also took my LG glasses with me, (they aren't compatible with Dolby 3D by the way, just for brightness comparison) the nice pair from the 6 pack tube to compare and they are noticeably brighter than the Dolby pair. 3D depth was pretty good. It was in 2.40 so it's limited on height. No popout 3D.
> Marvel Avengers
> Probably the stupidest movie I've seen in the last 5 years. Intelligence level: grade 6 or lower required. Depth was okay, nothing memorable and no popout 3D.
> Imax Under the Sea
> Best underwater 3D presentation I've seen so far and best example of popout 3D (and only popout 3D I've seen so far)Narration is a little soft and hard to hear with music, also a little monotone. Some minor ghosting here and there when lots of fish on screen. I think I was playing this for someone and they had to stop watching it as it was too eye straining. I could watch it 2 or 3 times a day and it wouldn't bother me. There's actually a couple popout effects. I remember another where the fish's fins protrude from the screen. The potato cod is the best. I played that for a friend and we just stood there as it swam right up to us. If you're going to buy only 1 3D movie this year, then buy IMax Under the Sea.
> 3D Aquarium
> Oops, bought this one 6 months ago after TV and haven't even opened it yet. I'll update this post after I get a chance to view.
> IMAX Space Station
> I'd seen the DVD before so it wasn't any new content, really just wanted to be blown away by 3D. There are some really good depth shots above Earth. Some of the interior shots of the station aren't great. Overall, I'd recommend it. No popout 3D noticed.
> IMAX Hubble
> This was a BIG disappointment. Not because I was expected to be blown away by 3D but because I expected to see more images from the Hubble. Why would they release a film about the launch of the Hubble? I mean: who cares? I know the deep space images wouldn't be that great in 3D, still that's what I and my friends were expecting and we got to see about 2 or 3 minutes worth. 3D depth was ok, if you already have Space Station, save your money, it's basically the same thing and same shots. No popout 3D.
> Grand Canyon Adventure
> I like this little independent documentary. It's a little preachy with saving the Colorado river with Las Vegas sucking up all the water but aside from that it's a good watch. There may have been some popout in the opening credits but it didn't really stand out. There was some water effects in the title sequences, I'll need to watch it again and see if I notice anything. 3D depth was pretty good, some good daylight shots, color variation, no noticeable ghosting. Popout 3D, did I miss it?
> Cave of Forgotten Dreams
> This one isn't even worth the review. If you like staring at dark cave walls, listening to barely comprehensible English speaking French, give it a try. From what I've seen 3D works best with good color and lighting and it just doesn't work in dark caves. It just looks 2D all the way through and the content isn't really interesting. It would have been mildly more entertaining with UK or US team and just 2D with additional lighting.
> Dinosaures Alive!
> This one and Patagonia are basically the same. I think I watched this one 2nd and it have a little bit better depth and animation. Overall it was a better watch. Popout 3D: no.
> Dinosaures Giants of the Patagonia
> Same as Alive! but not as good overall. Animation was a little better on Alive! 3D was ok, no popout 3D
> How to Train Your Dragon
> Kids enjoyed this one. 3D depth was good, no ghosting noticed and story animation were good, I'd recommend it. Good re watch value. No popout 3D.
> Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
> Kids liked this one, not the best 3D. A lot of the colors were the same in front and background and it just didn't work well which is also attributed to the animation. Probably better in 2D. Popout 3D? None. Somewhere I read at the beginning where they are pointing? Didn't notice it extend beyond the screen so I'd have to say no.
> The Polar Express
> A good flick, kids enjoyed it and 3D is surprisingly good. Depth, color and animation all work really well together. Didn't notice any popout 3D.
> Puss in Boots
> Kids loved this one, they've seen it probably a dozen times now. I think the story and characters were a little boring, overall I think it was a step down from Shrek. 3D was okay, it's been awhile since I've seen it and nothing really stood out. No popout 3D
> Tron Legacy
> This was actually my first 3D Blu ray purchase. i bought it before my TV before I had decided on buying one. I mainly wanted the Blu ray and Original Tron Blu ray that was included. I think this was the only set where you got both. If I remember right I was set against buying 3D at the time I bought this set and actually said I'd never buy a 3D TV. That changed after i saw IMAX Under the Sea. Actually I haven't seen the 3D yet so I need to give this one a view. The 2D Blu ray was amazing and soundtrack was top notch.
> Hugo
> Good movie, 3D depth was really good and adds to the movie experience. i would recommend this one in 2D or 3D. No popout 3D noticed.
> Clash of the Titans
> I love these movies. I know this one was post 3D but it's still descent. At times things don't quite look like 3D so nothing really stands out. Overall it's not entirely impressive but if you like 3D it's worth it. No popout 3D
> Wrath of the Titans
> The sequel was filmed in 3D this time and the effect is a little better overall. Good depth and the story, effects are all fairly impressive. I can't remember seeing any popout 3D in this one.



If you can't see pop out in IMAX Space Station then there's a problem somewhere. At the end the astronauts float fruit at the camera man and it comes out of the screen and into the room!


In one of those Dinosaurs movies one of the flying lizards comes out of the screen and everyone ducks. There are many pop out scenes in Monsters vs. Aliens and the new Madagascar movie.


----------



## thepiecesfit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Deja Vu*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22580852
> 
> 
> If you can't see pop out in IMAX Space Station then there's a problem somewhere. At the end the astronauts float fruit at the camera man and it comes out of the screen and into the room!
> 
> In one of those Dinosaurs movies one of the flying lizards comes out of the screen and everyone ducks. There are many pop out scenes in Monsters vs. Aliens and the new Madagascar movie.



If you saw Avatar in theatres there were plenty of scenes that had pop out. Unfortunately, I could only experience them on my sony Bravia LED. The ST50 did not have similar effects besides the Window depth. There is plenty of Pop out in this film and if you dont see it pretty much confirm my experiences with Panasonic 3d as simply not being that great.


The two scenes that come to mind are one: when Jake is running thorugh the woods and stops on a branch and the white woodspirits land on his hands and float all around him. These things were floating all around the theatre, right between the screen and the seat. Another scene was towards the end when the humans try attack the tree of souls. One of the gunships launches gas grenades, one of which flies center screen right at the viewer. This grenade almost hit me in the face when i was in the theatre. Again, could be the technology on the Panasonic is just not as good. There are some scenes that have nice depth separation on this tv. But its not the full 3d effect I'm used to.


----------



## ozer19

Yes, but if you read the message I was replying to, this is not what I challenged.


I challenge you to show me on a magazine ad that the TV is 3D *without the image crossing the borders of the TV frame*.


It is impossible. Unless one day we start receiving 3D magazines...


----------



## tomtastic

There are 3D images you can make and then just set them inside the printed 3D screen, that would probably work. Or just make a pop out with paper/cardboard like a pop out book. Not sure what the point would be, I forgot the original question now, maybe that magazines don't display 3D the way 3D TVs do? Obviously not.


Back to missed pop outs in the ones above. I'd have to review those specific examples, since I don't remember them the way the cod fish popped out I just listed no pop out. I do remember the fruit flying at the screen in Space Station, at the time I don't remember it popping out though. I just ordered a new 3D Blu ray player so I'm going to wait until I get it in and hooked up before I re watch them. I've been using a 3rd gen PS3.


----------



## scupking

Best pop out I have seen is the potato Cod!!! Watched IMAX under the sea last night for the first time and had to pause it. I just looked at that fish for 15 minutes. Simply amazing!! It didn't even look like it was connected to the TV. Wish I could see more movies like that.


----------



## hellotv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scupking*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22645129
> 
> 
> Best pop out I have seen is the potato Cod!!! Watched IMAX under the sea last night for the first time and had to pause it. I just looked at that fish for 15 minutes. Simply amazing!! It didn't even look like it was connected to the TV. Wish I could see more movies like that.


hey, whats the potato cod..pop outs seems much harder to do, everything has some depth but i would like to see more pop out. i heard a turtle tales blows away hollywood when it comes to pop out.


----------



## binici

Madagascar and Lion King were the best movies my g/f and I watched. Plenty of pop-out scences and were had a few, "whoa, cool" moments.


Looking forward to a decent LIVE action movie with pop-out.


----------



## prkumar2911

Top Girl 3D - LG's demo pop song - you must watch. I have never seen a lot of popouts like this. Within 5 minutes you will find more than 20 popouts that too so beautiful.


----------



## joed32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *prkumar2911*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22668574
> 
> 
> Top Girl 3D - LG's demo pop song - you must watch. I have never seen a lot of popouts like this. Within 5 minutes you will find more than 20 popouts that too so beautiful.



Where would this be found?


----------



## dexter12

I think i saw it you need a LG smart tv then get 3d world app should be on that. Its a free app.


----------



## johnny905




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dexter12*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22669006
> 
> 
> I think i saw it you need a LG smart tv then get 3d world app should be on that. Its a free app.



Does LG offer any 3D apps on their 3D blu-ray players?


----------



## joed32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dexter12*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22669006
> 
> 
> I think i saw it you need a LG smart tv then get 3d world app should be on that. Its a free app.



Thanks. I have the TV but I took it off my network because I'm using a bunch of other things on it. I'll just have to get a 16 outlet switch because the 8 is full.


----------



## prkumar2911

Don't worry I'll soon make it available....I will give you the link so that you can download it..


----------



## joed32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *prkumar2911*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22693149
> 
> 
> Don't worry I'll soon make it available....I will give you the link so that you can download it..



Thank you!


----------



## Necuno

Hello,


I find that the question of pop-out or seeing the screen as a window, are both effects mostly descriped by people with the wrong 3D-settings or inexperienced users. I''ve mainly used 3D for games using Nvidia 3D Vision, but the point is that when you get used to it, these effects are rendered senseless. When i watch 3D-content on my screen there is no screen for the things to "pop-out" of, i literally have to poke with my hand to find where in the picture the screen is.


So in short, when you set your 3D-settings correctly, "There is no screen". Maybe this only works for first person video games though, which is where i have mostly used 3D.


Regards


- Necuno


----------



## dcarroll

just a thought because i haven't seen much popout in the three 3D movies i have so far, avatar, madagascar 3, and dispicable me.


might alcohol consumption during viewing be effecting me and those not seeing popout? i do enjoy a few pops while watching a film.


----------



## blastermaster




> Quote:
> Grand Canyon Adventure
> 
> I like this little independent documentary. It's a little preachy with saving the Colorado river with Las Vegas sucking up all the water but aside from that it's a good watch. There may have been some popout in the opening credits but it didn't really stand out. There was some water effects in the title sequences, I'll need to watch it again and see if I notice anything. 3D depth was pretty good, some good daylight shots, color variation, no noticeable ghosting. Popout 3D, did I miss it?



Yes, you did. The intro credits show some water droplets and one large one in particular that comes right out of the screen and into the middle of the room.


> Quote:
> Hugo
> 
> Good movie, 3D depth was really good and adds to the movie experience. i would recommend this one in 2D or 3D. No popout 3D noticed.



Doberman Pinscher's face clearly comes out of the screen at one point during the movie.


The Final Destination movies have some good popout, and the Legend of the Guardians has some popout as well and is a great film to watch in 3D.


----------



## cathoderaytube

The IMAX movie "Emergency 3D" has notable popout, like a guy on a fire ladder popping way out of the screen. Has a lots of good strong 3D action scenes such as troops jumping out of huge transport jets, helicopters landing in water, dramatic and emotional 3d footage from the earthquake in Haiti. Some of it may be too strong 3D, such as half of the inside of a hospital tent popping out, some scenes were 2d or too distant to show depth, but it was one of the more impressive 3D IMAX films I've seen.


----------



## Wesley Hester

The bigger the screen, the better the 3D pop out in my opinion: IMAX is king.


----------



## Don Landis

Guys, it's an illusion. The geometry is well defined in the math on 3D stereoscopic imagery. The distance you can get in front of your screen frame is a function of both the size of the screen and the distance you view the screen. The farther away you view a given size screen the more distance your "popout" object will appear. It can never appear behind you and never outside the frustum of the boundaries of the pyramid sides by the borders of the screen and the apex of the pyramid of your viewing point between your eyes. However, when this extreme parallax happens your vision will be crossed and fixed on that object and you will not be able to focus on the objects in the background at the same time. If the extreme popout remains on the screen for any length of time, you may begin to notice stuff in the background but your crossed eyes vision will make those objects doubled or blurred. If you try to ignore the popped image and focus on the background the popped image will be doubled. In other words, you can't have it both ways. There is an imaginary distance in front of the screen and behind the screen that most people will be able to comfortably handle for long scenes. This is about 25-30% of the viewing distance, called the zone of comfort. Here most people's brains will be able to converge the 3D stereo over the entire screen area.


----------



## OOJguitar

The intro to coroline had good pop out for a few seconds. But go to you tube and watch most videos by 3dn3d. One with the chain saw and the drill comes out to your nose damn near. By far best pop out I've seen. I'm rockin a LG passive set.


----------



## fxrh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dcarroll*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22778416
> 
> 
> just a thought because i haven't seen much popout in the three 3D movies i have so far, avatar, madagascar 3, and dispicable me.
> 
> 
> might alcohol consumption during viewing be effecting me and those not seeing popout? i do enjoy a few pops while watching a film.



If you're not seeing much popout in MADAGASCAR 3, then it's time to keep those beers in the refrigerator!


----------



## Jedi2016

It might also depend on how you define "pop-out". Because nearly every 3D film has some degree of negative parallax in almost every single shot. Unless you're referring specifically to the "things jumping out at you" thing.


----------



## blazed




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OOJguitar*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22798244
> 
> 
> The intro to coroline had good pop out for a few seconds. But go to you tube and watch most videos by 3dn3d. One with the chain saw and the drill comes out to your nose damn near. By far best pop out I've seen. I'm rockin a LG passive set.



yea i showed my friend that same chainsaw video. he kept complaining that he bought a 3dtv and nothing pops outta the screen. i tried explaining to him that many movies are not trying to pop out, but he kept saying that it was the tv. showed him that chainsaw video and he shut up.


----------



## OOJguitar

You are right not many movies use pop out. Most think it's gimmicky and cheesey. But I love it haha. Like Promethius how bad ass would it of been if that alien at the ends little mouth came right out infront of you.


----------



## BlackoutsBox

I am an expert on this pop out thing and I can tell you that there was an active decision by the blu-ray 3D standards group to move towards less pop out and more depth because pop out effects can cause headaches in some people if done to long or not done right. This is why imax 3D movies with those huge active shutter glasses were the best and usually stayed to under 45 minutes originally - at least the 3D ones.


Many many of these 3D titles were not shot in 3D and were converted and I woudn't give a dollar to see them as they can't do 3D correctly because the information is not there from the second lens recording at a different angle.


I have talked to pro guys and been on the pro news groups and directors are encouraged to stay away from those effects which I think is ridiculous because it's one of the magical things that people bought a 3D tv for to be able to reach out for things like the shows at epcot or disney (but remember these shows are usually under 10 minutes.. terminator 2 3D ect....


That being said without a doubt the two biggest "pop out effect" blu-rays discs are #1 - Imax Under the Sea and #2 Journey To the Center of the Earth.. it all goes down hill after that with most of these cgi generated movies being very skimpy with bringing 3D out of the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO7P8SOf3dE&hd=1 


Check that out on your blu-ray enabled 3d projector or TV or even with cheapo red / cyan comic book 3d glasses


The best 3D blu-ray movies and films should POP and come out of the screen as well as go in. Unfortunately most of the current generation of flat screen lcd, led, and plasmas 3D TVs just don't do 3D very well to begin with and on top of that many blu-ray 3D titles are just converted 2D which looks lame. This shows off what proper full HD 3D should look like, with layers of depth BEHIND the screen, then the awesome POP OUT of the screen effects that everyone loves but most 3D TVs. blu-rays, and movies lack because of how the parallax optics were set. Viewed properly on a 3D tv with active shutter glasses (best choice) passive (2nd best) Evo 3D or Evo V (3rd best) or even colored red /cyan (4th best way to view) - this small clip should be fairly mind blowing and the straw and my cell phone should come out far from your screen while the people behind me should be behind the 'md level' of your screen.


Now, this is youtube mind you but, this was originally shot in 4K dual lens / dual chip systems. It is a combination of manufacturers so I am not going to go into full spec talk but the focus should be that THIS will show off what 3D should look like, with layers of depth BEHIND the screen, then the awesome POP OUT of the screen effects that everyone loves but most 3D TVs. blu-rays, and movies lack because of how the parallax optics were set. Viewed properly on a 3D tv with active shutter glasses - this small clip should be fairly mind blowing and the straw and my cell phone should come out several feet from your screen while the people behind me should be several feet behind. Mind you this is going to lose a lot from youtube compression and will most likely be down converted to 30p.. which is close enough to 24p so I am not going to bother uploading that one. I can do 24p 30p 48p ad 60p full 4K resolution or dual 2k.


----------



## Don Landis

Michael- You are funny!


----------



## BlackoutsBox

I'm insane I admit it so I'm going to take that as a compliment even though I know you are being sarcastic.


----------



## Jedi2016

Considering that the original 3D films from the 50s were all about depth and not pop-out, and it only became a gimmick in the 80s as an attraction at theme parks with lots of pop-out, I'm going to say that your statement about the reasons behind depth-based 3D authoring is somewhat flawed.


----------



## Don Landis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackoutsBox*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/120#post_22892795
> 
> 
> I'm insane I admit it so I'm going to take that as a compliment even though I know you are being sarcastic.



Insanity didn't cross my mind at all. Drugs, yes.







Some of your video did make me laugh, starting with the straw in the camera and how amazed you looked when you acted like you discovered negative parallax. With that hat and the scarf, the scene reminded me of a monkey in the circus seeing himself in a mirror. Take it as a compliment.


----------



## dekkerEssex7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cakefoo*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question#post_20626563
> 
> 
> 
> That's fine. Popout is actually really complicated to shoot- it basically needs to be scripted. Documentaries are predominantly an educational and immersive look at a foreign topic, while popout is about poking foreign objects at the viewer to startle them.
> 
> 
> 
> I stay away from popout, but you'll find it in boatloads if you watch Piranha 3D, Saw 3D--- are you seeing the trend I'm getting at?



Ok. I have the benq w1070 with resident evil afterlife, bait, hotel transylvania, history of the world in 2 hours (all 3d). Other than above 2 movies, anything else with a lot of pop out (gimmicky, but great b/c we fell in love with it in theatres)? I realize it's about content.


Do you think those with the Runco, sim2, christie, etc. projectors are afforded more pop out because of the optics processing (for 10k-30k+)?


----------



## cinema13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_22893279
> 
> 
> Considering that the original 3D films from the 50s were all about depth and not pop-out, and it only became a gimmick in the 80s as an attraction at theme parks with lots of pop-out, I'm going to say that your statement about the reasons behind depth-based 3D authoring is somewhat flawed.



I actually remember pop-out being used a great deal in the 70s...such as flicks like COMIN' AT YA and ANDY WARHOL'S FRANKENSTEIN (aka FLESH FOR FRANKENSTEIN in 2D). A shame the latter has never been released in it's original 3D on disc.


----------



## OOJguitar

Just watch the 3d chainsaw on YouTube, if the part with the drill feels like it's touching your nose damn near


----------



## tucsondave

I just watched "Spy Kids 3D-Game Over" I've owned the field sequential 3D DVD version for years but that was 4:3 low rez.

The BD version is amazing. Lots of pop out, both fast and slow. Some objects hang in front of the screen long enough for you to reach out and try to grab them.

Although it's kind of kids version of "Tron" (#1) I really enjoyed it. Way more than "Avatar." Give me a break: "unobtanium" and cyclic pitch helicopter rotor sounds for

a ducted fan aircraft! But I digress.


So, if you want pop out, live action + CGI, Stallone, Clooney, Banderas, and Ricardo Montalban in his last motion picture appearance, get a $35 bucket of popcorn,

put on the glasses and enjoy. There is only one short shot where the left/right are reversed but it passes quickly.

Extra features are abundant: making of, commentary, 10 minute film school, etc.


$15 from Amazon and you also get "The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl 3D"

td


----------



## blastermaster

Final Destination 3D has some good, gimmicky popout.


----------



## Webmonkey

While I am getting great depth on movies like Hugo, I still have to experience good pop-out on my JVC X30 using the PS3 as the source. Sammy had great "pop out holo effects" in the cinema, but appears rather flat on my 92" screen.


Could the PS3 be the culpit???


----------



## Jedi2016

Only if you're fiddling with the settings (and I believe those are typically in the TV and not the player). It's always best to just play the movie "as-is", without trying to adjust any of the 3D settings yourself. They have stereographers for a reason.


----------



## cakefoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23252355
> 
> 
> Only if you're fiddling with the settings (and I believe those are typically in the TV and not the player). It's *always* best to just play the movie "as-is", without trying to adjust any of the 3D settings yourself. They have stereographers for a reason.


People who understand the function can and should tweak it to their personal tastes.


----------



## Jedi2016

Two words: Director's intent.


I fail to see why it's anathema to tweak color, brightness, or aspect ratio for "personal taste", but it's perfectly fine to futz with 3D.


----------



## cbcdesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23254539
> 
> 
> Two words: Director's intent.
> 
> 
> I fail to see why it's anathema to tweak color, brightness, or aspect ratio for "personal taste", but it's perfectly fine to futz with 3D.



Sometimes equipment issues can result in 3D that doesn't work all that well in some instances. I had all sorts of issues with Prometheus but adjusting the 3D in the player brought out the 3D that was otherwise all but invisible.

Its not always best to just let the disk play as it is. This is entertainment for people in the privacy of their own homes too. They should adjust anything they like to suit their tastes. We may not agree with their settings but its not really any of our business.


----------



## Jedi2016

The 3D in Prometheus was fine, so adjusting the settings on your equipment would merely return the disc to the way it was meant to be played.


I'm not 100% convinced that there is such a thing as an equipment problem that would change the way 3D is displayed, as long as all settings were defaulted. The 3D is effectively "hardcoded" onto the disc. Why a player would play one disc one way and another disc another way completely baffles me, because they're all encoded the same way. I think what's happening here isn't an equipment problem at all, but rather a viewer problem. One disc has "better" 3D, and another has "worse" 3D. It's not a problem of equipment or coding at all, but preference for gimmicks like pop-out.


If you have to alter the director's vision of a film just so you can get a "thrill" out of watching **** come flying out of the screen at you, then you're doing it wrong. This is AVS, after all, and this forum is not exempt from the opinions of the rest of the board. I'm sure there's some wonderfully pop-out-centric forums out there somewhere.


----------



## cakefoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23254539
> 
> 
> Two words: Director's intent.
> 
> 
> I fail to see why it's anathema to tweak color, brightness, or aspect ratio for "personal taste", but it's perfectly fine to futz with 3D.


When it comes to color settings and aspect ratio, yes there is a single vision the director had, and I always honor that. But the look of 3D changes based on screen size, viewing distance and convergence.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23254883
> 
> 
> If you have to alter the director's vision of a film just so you can get a "thrill" out of watching **** come flying out of the screen at you, then you're doing it wrong.


There is no right or wrong. You can move the 3D "stage" wherever you want it based on how you prefer to feel. Some people want in-your-face, others want a deep sense of scale. It's a different feeling on your eyes, a different sensation in your brain, but not right or wrong.


----------



## Webmonkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/100_100#post_23252355
> 
> 
> Only if you're fiddling with the settings (and I believe those are typically in the TV and not the player). It's always best to just play the movie "as-is", without trying to adjust any of the 3D settings yourself. They have stereographers for a reason.



The only setting I see in the PS3 menu is the "Screen size" for 3D - which is correctly set to 92".


As said, depth is really good on the X30 with the new RF glasses, but pop-up is almost non-existing :-(


----------



## BleedOrange11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Webmonkey*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/160_40#post_23257632
> 
> 
> The only setting I see in the PS3 menu is the "Screen size" for 3D - which is correctly set to 92".
> 
> 
> As said, depth is really good on the X30 with the new RF glasses, but pop-up is almost non-existing :-(


That makes no sense (if you're projector's convergence settings, sometimes called depth settings, are at default/zero). Depth and pop-out are displayed basically the exact same way--just with the images offset in different directions. It could be just a perceptual thing, sitting far away from the screen in a darkened room. Set up some household items or furniture near the borders of your screen, and you might notice 3D objects "popping out" more.


----------



## BleedOrange11

The screen size setting is the convergence setting for the PS3, so that one may be fine. However, I'm starting to think that it is unalterable for BD3Ds, despite whatever number it's on (Possibly either because the original number inputted is retained in the PS3's memory or the HDMI cable communicates with the display and sets it correctly automatically). I turned mine up to 1000" a couple of days ago watching _Puss in Boots_, and it looked the exact same as 42".


The projector might have a screen size setting as well.


----------



## Jedi2016

Screen size on the PS3, as far as I'm aware, only affects 3D rendering in games, in determining how far the separation should be between left and right images. The ideal distance of approximately 60mm at maximum separation on the positive axis is easy to determine based on the size of the screen. I've found the system to be very accurate at rendering separation based on the correct value being input here. My PC does the same thing, able to set maximum separation right where it needs to be, based only on the size of the screen.


3D Blu-rays, on the other hand, are encoded as two separate images to begin with. The left and right eye images are simply displayed as-is, using the convergence and separation (two different things) that are effectively hardcoded to the disc. To my knowledge, the screen size setting has no effect on this, it's simply displaying what it's told.


Some TVs (the TV, not the player), have a "3D depth" setting, or something named similarly, that will forcibly adjust the distance between the left and right eyes. Aside from crushing the sides of the image, it also affects the convergence.. the "screen depth" portion of the image that is typically chosen as the focal point of the shot (usually the actor). Adjusting the separation manually moves the convergence forward or backward, so that the 3D "focus" of the shot is now on some random object in the scene rather than the central focus as determined by the director, cinematographer, and stereographer. That's why I have an issue with changing it, you're altering the focal point of the shot.


I've never even bothered to learn where that setting is on my TV. The only button I bother with is "3D on/off".


Shot depth and convergence is based on more than just pushing things forward or backward. The convergence is set very carefully, shot by shot, by the people with decades of filmmaking experience, and it seems pretty arrogant to just throw all that away in favor of a gimmick, without even considering things like edge-breaking. How many of you who push your settings for more pop-out even know what it means to break the edge, or why it's a bad thing?


----------



## BleedOrange11

I only own a PS3, but just from reading, the manual screen size setting on other BD3D players typically does change convergence. The PS3 is a weird exception.


The convergence point and the focus point are not always the same thing. You can shift convergence and retain the same focus point, and in an ideal completely darkened room (or when wearing a HMD), you can't even tell where the convergence point is. Besides determining which part of the image is in front of/behind the screen, the only thing that changing convergence does for sure is increase or decrease your perception of depth strength and proximity to the 3D image--the same as physically moving further away or closer to the screen.

http://www.lightillusion.com/stereo_3d_convergencefocus.html 


Having said that, I'm all for the theatrical convergence settings. Typically my viewing conditions are not ideally darkened, and when pop-out objects leave the borders of the screen and appear to enter my physical environment (examples: the silica storm in _Prometheus_, the rainstorms in _Life of Pi_), they become much more dramatic, affecting the story-telling. I wouldn't want a negative shift in convergence due to window violations, and I wouldn't want a positive shift in convergence due to the reduced effectiveness of pop-out moments. I'd rather physically move my sofa to suit my preference for depth and proximity, but that's mainly just because of my viewing environment.


----------



## cakefoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23261172
> 
> 
> Some TVs (the TV, not the player), have a "3D depth" setting, or something named similarly, that will forcibly adjust the distance between the left and right eyes.


"3D Viewpoint" on LG TV's is a convergence setting only. It just pans the left and right eye images horizontally. I wouldn't call it "distance between the left and right eyes," because that's interaxial (lateral positional movement only possible in games that are rendered in realtime). Interaxial is hard-coded at the time the movie is recorded. I say this not for your sake, as I'm sure you know this already, but for the sake of the people you're trying to educate, because they might confuse the two if they hear a trigger word like "distance."


> Quote:
> Adjusting the separation manually moves the convergence forward or backward, so that the 3D "focus" of the shot is now on some random object in the scene rather than the central focus as determined by the director, cinematographer, and stereographer.


Again, not to slap you on the back of the hand twice in one post, but for the sake of others who might potentially be confused, I want to discourage you from saying "separation" when describing convergence. It's just hard for people who don't know the difference between convergence and interaxial spacing.


> Quote:
> That's why I have an issue with changing it, you're altering the focal point of the shot.[


I'm out of this mentality that the screen plane matters. There is no TV, there are only four walls cutting off the image. Setting the viewpoint at a positive value pushes the scene further away while increasing the sense of scale to that of a theater. Shift it to a negative value and everything begins to float closer to you, which can feel dreamy. The only objective downsides to adjust convergence away from default are potential eye strain and crosstalk, which will vary from person to person and TV to TV respectively.


> Quote:
> I've never even bothered to learn where that setting is on my TV. The only button I bother with is "3D on/off".


As I said, it has its benefits. I usually shift things positive for a slightly larger sense of scale. But I've been wanting to re-watch Life of Pi with it set to negative, not because I'm a sucker for popout gimmickry, but simply because negative parallax can be mesmerizing emotionally, like the popout faces in a few instances in Hugo to make the audience feel more connected to that character.


> Quote:
> Shot depth and convergence is based on more than just pushing things forward or backward. The convergence is set very carefully, shot by shot, by the people with decades of filmmaking experience, and it seems pretty arrogant to just throw all that away in favor of a gimmick, without even considering things like edge-breaking. How many of you who push your settings for more pop-out even know what it means to break the edge, or why it's a bad thing?


I wouldn't consider negative parallax to be a gimmick-- what's a gimmick is when there's a sword or spear coming out of the screen pointing at my nose for no story-driven reason at all.


I know the importance of convergence; I abided by the rules in all my stereo content: http://www.youtube.com/user/MuchRockness/search?query=yt3d 


I was very consistent from shot to shot, making sure you could relax your eyes and have each shot be in focus with minimal eye adjustments. But when you change the viewpoint on the TV, you just readjust your eyes once and then your eyes are set for the entire movie. Sure, movies are designed so that your eyes focus on the same point they converge on for the majority of the 2 hours, but as you get more used to viewing 3D the negative side effects associated with that disconnect diminish.


Again, I disagree with the theory that we must be conscious of where the plane of the screen is as if its position relative to the content in the movie matters. What matters is the relative position of something at infinity vs something that's meant to be in the extreme negative parallax. The stereo windows are a distraction I'm trying to avoid focusing on, because they're really irrelevant to the story. The only exception I can think of where the window is important is when Raimi conjures flames and a tophat to fly out of the 4:3 frame in the movie Oz: The Great and the Powerful. When I saw that I thought it was a pretty clever homage to old 4:3 films.


----------



## dukedallas2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mongis*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question#post_20627192
> 
> 
> Imax: Legends of Flight has lots of in your face moments though.



I fully agree, I haven't seen anything yet come close to Legends of flight in reference to Pop-Out.


----------



## WynsWrld98




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dukedallas2005*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23262850
> 
> 
> I fully agree, I haven't seen anything yet come close to Legends of flight in reference to Pop-Out.



Have you seen Sammy's Tale?


----------



## bravia3D

If you want good pop out try my Marine World 3D movie, many scenes like the potato cod on the IMAX movie and Kuju Hana koen movie has pop also.

Www.blazin3D.com


----------



## dukedallas2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WynsWrld98*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23268886
> 
> 
> Have you seen Sammy's Tale?



No, I cant find it


----------



## Webmonkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WynsWrld98*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/100_100#post_23268886
> 
> 
> Have you seen Sammy's Tale?



This is one of the titles that made my "love" 3D - at the cinema - the turtles was "floating in mid air" - like holographic - but at home on the JVC X30 - nothing really :-(


----------



## joed32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dukedallas2005*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23269913
> 
> 
> No, I cant find it


 http://www.amazon.com/Turtles-Tale-Adventures-Blu-Ray-NON-USA/dp/B006AS4OCQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367501976&sr=8-2&keywords=sammys+adventure+3d


----------



## WynsWrld98




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Webmonkey*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23270007
> 
> 
> This is one of the titles that made my "love" 3D - at the cinema - the turtles was "floating in mid air" - like holographic - but at home on the JVC X30 - nothing really :-(



xlnt 3D on Sammys Take on my Epson 6010. how does the famous Potato Cod scene look on the JVC? when I freeze frame on that and give time for eyes to adjust that is truly amazing!!!!!!!!


----------



## spanky250

I have an LG55LM6400 TV. With the factory 3D settings all at default (standard), there was no discernible "pop out" with any movies that I watched, the picture essentially started at the TV frame and went back from there.. But after playing with the various 3D "modes" I finally settled on the "Cinema" setting. With it in Cinema Mode, there is substantial "pop out" and a very deep field of view extending far back inside through the "window" of the TV frame. The overall 3D effect is MUCH better than it was in "Standard" mode.


We just finished watching Hugo, and the snow was hitting us in the face. So for those that don't feel that their television is delivering on the 3D that they expected from it, I strongly urge you to just play with the various settings, you aren't going to hurt anything (you can always reset to default), and you may find that your TV can do much better than it was from the factory.


----------



## cinema13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky250*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23279749
> 
> 
> I have an LG55LM6400 TV. With the factory 3D settings all at default (standard), there was no discernible "pop out" with any movies that I watched, the picture essentially started at the TV frame and went back from there.. But after playing with the various 3D "modes" I finally settled on the "Cinema" setting. With it in Cinema Mode, there is substantial "pop out" and a very deep field of view extending far back inside through the "window" of the TV frame. The overall 3D effect is MUCH better than it was in "Standard" mode.
> 
> 
> We just finished watching Hugo, and the snow was hitting us in the face. So for those that don't feel that their television is delivering on the 3D that they expected from it, I strongly urge you to just play with the various settings, you aren't going to hurt anything (you can always reset to default), and you may find that your TV can do much better than it was from the factory.



What are your settings in the Cinema Mode?


----------



## spanky250




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema13*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23280220
> 
> 
> What are your settings in the Cinema Mode?



3D Depth is 15.


3D Viewpoint is -3.


The "Standard" setting had everything right in the middle. The changes don't seem like much, but they made a dramatic difference in the 3D effect.


----------



## wakeme111

Sorry if this has been posted, but if you want to experience some extreme pop out check out this guy's channel on youtube through a Smart TV. I have never seen home 3D this 'in your face' before on my LG 47LM7600.. More than Sammy, more than the potato cod etc.

https://www.youtube.com/user/1tompo1/videos 


This one is wild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUTI713EDq8


----------



## dukedallas2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joed32*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/150#post_23270162
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Turtles-Tale-Adventures-Blu-Ray-NON-USA/dp/B006AS4OCQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367501976&sr=8-2&keywords=sammys+adventure+3d



Thanks! but this is a NON US version I dont think it will work on my Blu-Ray player.


----------



## donjoe




> Quote:
> The formula for positioning an object in the z axis doesn't change based on how big the screen is or how close you sit to a screen.


No, but the 3D viewing experience does. Ideally a 3D scene will be shot with a stereo camera and that camera will be placed at a specific distance from the objects being focused and converged on. That is the same virtual distance the viewer has to sit away from the screen if they want to recapture the original experience (adjusting the distance for screen size, of course).


Think about it: when an object is closer to you than infinity and your eyes rotate inward toward the center of your body to point at the object, each eye gets an exact amount of extra information from the corresponding side of the object. When the object is very close to you, you can see a lot of its lateral surfaces; when it's very far, you can see very little of its lateral surfaces; when it's at infinity, you don't see any lateral surface, you just see an identical image of the frontal surface with both eyes. So once the image has been recorded from a specific distance and with a specific convergence, the assumption of how close the viewer is supposed to be to the object in focus is already embedded into it. If you violate this assumption by sitting too close or too far away from the screen, you will distort your 3D experience.


* If you're very close to the screen, your eyes are focusing at a very short distance and your brain expects to see a lot of lateral surface on the objects with each eye. Instead, it only gets as much lateral information as was put in the movie, which is too little => you get the feeling that the objects are too shallow, like they're all just cardboard cutouts parading in front of you at slightly different depths. (This was my experience the first time I saw "Avatar" from a 3rd-row seat and it made me think about why that was and realize what I'm explaining here - that there is always going to be a viewing distance problem with 3D movies.)


* If you're very far from the screen, your eyes are focusing at a long distance, your brain expects much less lateral surface information from the objects than it's getting => the objects look too deep (and "pop-outs" are exaggerated as well) - the 3D experience is distorted again.


This is why I always look to get cinema seats at the exact center of the room (and, of course, hope and pray that that particular movie's producers have done their math correctly to make sure the viewing "sweet spot" is indeed placed at the center of the room).


----------



## tory40

  

I believe linear perspective is the main component behind how the amount of perceived depth changes as one shifts viewing distance from the screen and is one of the main reasons 3D in movies doesn't often feel quite perfect, like a window. In Gravity, Sandra Bullock had many many close up shots of her face. So close, that if it were in person you could kiss her. But her position on the 3rd axis was basically screen depth, telling the brain that she has one enormous head or at least conflicting with what it knows about reality and not "feeling" right.


I do think close-up shots are important for making things more personal and intimate, as i learned while playing with different FOV settings using auxiliary mouse buttons in the game Mass Effect, but I don't think close up shots are ever going to feel quite perfect, but i don't think they need to.


I'd love to see full time pop-out, with subject matter being right in front of you but with close ups being so frequently used I think it may be awhile before that happens. I think it would be fine to switch between full time pop-out -- making the environment look laid out in front of you with characters looking life sized and matching their FOVs -- and more personal/character camera focusing (aka zoomed in).


----------



## Noobytwo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wakeme111*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_23285054
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been posted, but if you want to experience some extreme pop out check out this guy's channel on youtube through a Smart TV. I have never seen home 3D this 'in your face' before on my LG 47LM7600.. More than Sammy, more than the potato cod etc.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/1tompo1/videos
> 
> 
> This one is wild.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUTI713EDq8



I am so happy I found this thread because the issue of 'to see or not to see 'pop out' is ongoing and incredibly frustrating. I have been testing and experimenting for almost 2 years with my set up (all negative results)


The Youtube link you provided + the famous 'potato cod' scene are still to this day the only '3D Pop Out' that works for me. This type of pop out is so far out of the screen it's in the middle of the lounge room.


Every (cant say this enough EVERY) and I mean EVERY 3D Bluray I have watched does not pop out of the screen to the extent of the Youtube guy or potato cod.


WHY ???????????????


Why do 2 clips that have both been downloaded from Youtube work perfectly but every single Bluray does not work. There is depth, really good depth and there is minor pop out, almost to the point where you wouldn't say pop out, just nudging the screen slightly out a bit.


I thought it was my TV but those 2 clips work perfectly. Could my HDMI ports be faulty (backwards or something). Blurays have been played on PS3 and Tohiba bluray player - no pop out on either.


It's incredibly frustrating and makes me angry that it does not work.


----------



## Don Landis

Noobytwo1-


It may just be the titles you are watching. Many 3D stereographers choose to aviod "pop out" due to it often being considered gimickry. Or, gratuitous effect.


I don't believe in that social restriction to my shooting. If I see something that looks like it needs to be in front of the screen plane in an extreme amount I will place it there in my shooting. On my YT channel I have a number of extreme popout content such as a Moray Eel in the Sea World documentary. Others like, the Bellagio Gardens video I recently uploaded shows a full range of depth, including some macro shots of very colorful flowers that are right in the middle of your room. Note that full range of depth requires such extreme visual work that it can get very tiring for many people. Some can't even focus on it and don't like it. This is why extremes in depth is not held for long as the directors do not want to put a majority of their audiences in pain.


There are plenty of full range depth 3D movies on Blu Ray too. Check out the IMAX 3D on the Space Station. Spy Kids / Shark Boy and Lava Girl, Smurfs 2 and many others. While there are many titles that are 100% behind the screen plane, I don't know of any tjhat are 100% in front of the screen plane as this technique is considered a gimmick and also a source of eye strain for long periods of time.


It also has to be considered that the objects that do appear in front of the screen are limited in dimension as they can look strange if cut off by the frustum of the pyramid of viewing of 3D stereography.


----------



## Noobytwo1

The titles I have looked at are ones that have Pop out. It's difficult because you are relying on someone opinion as to what pop out is and to what degree does the image come out of your screen.


My example is Sammys Adventures: A turtles tale. This seems to be universally agreed that it is in the middle of your room due to extreme pop out. On top of this I have the fact that when those scenes occur in the film there is a straining of the eyes and what I assume is crosstalk. It's like they are supposed to happen but cant.

But I also have my ever reliable potato cod and the Youtube channel mentioned in previous posts. They both work perfectly and are both from youtube. I have even read a post about a guy who watched the potato cod scene in the LG Demo and then went and bought the Imax under the sea bluray and the pop out did not work.


It's endlessly frustrating.


I reset my TV back to factory defaults tonight just so I could have another way to come at it.


For arguments sake lets say that Sammys Adventure does have pop out that ends up in the middle of the room. Now lets also say my TV is capable of producing that effect. What is the deciding factor (or factors) in my setup that wont let that pop out effect occur ?


----------



## Don Landis




> Quote:
> For arguments sake lets say that Sammys Adventure does have pop out that ends up in the middle of the room. Now lets also say my TV is capable of producing that effect. What is the deciding factor (or factors) in my setup that wont let that pop out effect occur ?



If I understand the question, you want to know if there is a setting that is preventing that particular title from producing extreme negative parallax.


1. aside from being blind in one eye, the limit may be in an adjustment. In my 3D projector, I have a setting that allows one to squeeze the depth spread with a default of zero and ranges of plus and minus. These settings are separate and can be different between between a SBSh mode and frame packed. Since you mention good depth on YT then maybe your frame packing depth range adjustment is set differently as YT only offers a SBS mode while the disk is frame packed and handled differently in your projector.


For a test, I pulled extreme negative parallax in a macro shot of some flowers at about 11:20 in my Bellagio Gardens video on my YT channel. It is the featured title when you go to the page. Scan ahead and let me know if that produces the kind of "pop out" you seek. When I shot that, I set the convergence to absolute maximum before it would not converge. The flower sits in the middle of my room while the borders extend to well behind the screen.


----------



## Noobytwo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don Landis*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24099148
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a test, I pulled extreme negative parallax in a macro shot of some flowers at about 11:20 in my Bellagio Gardens video on my YT channel. It is the featured title when you go to the page. Scan ahead and let me know if that produces the kind of "pop out" you seek. When I shot that, I set the convergence to absolute maximum before it would not converge. The flower sits in the middle of my room while the borders extend to well behind the screen.



I cant get your clip to work. I downloaded it but the image does not line up properly so it has massive crosstalk. On Youtube there are no 3D options either so I cant watch it directly on the TV.


Do you have any suggestions. I would like to watch this because it at least gives me a starting point to try and figure out my problem.


----------



## Don Landis

I wonder exactly what equipment, the chain from internet to your screen that you are using. Something really does seem out of adjustment with your system.


Another thing I would like you to verify is do you have your TV set for "simulated 3D"? Everything you describe sounds lke you have some TV settings completely wrong.


Also, I have to say that You Tube has some issues they generated with their latest update for watching on computer screens, not on YT apps on PS3 or my WDTV Live box which display normally. The Computer browsers, Firefox, IE, and Safari all suffer from loss of the 3D options on the featured program and suffer small reduced screen size on 3D SBS uploads but offer the 3D options. This problem has been sent in to their tech support. To put YT back to full screen, you need to now be running HTML5 stereo and select that to expand to full screen. Regardless of the YT bugs that surfaced just a couple weeks ago, you seem to have some 3D display problems yourself. I get frustrated with the geeks at Google constantly changing the fundamental technology on my YT channel and never telling me about it.










I dug through my library and found I do have the Sammys Adventure: A turtle's Tale 3D BD here. I checked it out with my OPPO BD-93 player and the Sony VPL VW-90ES projector. The NuWave logo has excellent negative parallax ( popout ) and then if you advance to chapter 3, the eels swim out and to the left nearly 3/4 of the distance to me before exiting from visibility. Following that, the Sea Horse, swims out about half way into the room and both look very clean and no "cross talk"


I was satisfied the program offers excellent popout for you to test. If you are not seeing this, then you must have something not set up right in your BD player or more likely the projector or TV set. I don't recall what TV display you have.


Unless your TV has Sensio properly implemented ( older Vizio's do not), you will have to manually put the TV in SBS for viewing You Tube as all their 3D is SBS or interleaved and I doubt you have an interleaved set. There are work arounds for this but let's not complicate things while trying to get the basics working.


I hope me verifying the Sammy's Adventure popout is for real and what I looked at will assist you in tracking down what isn't set up right. Keep looking, you'll find it.


----------



## Noobytwo1

My TV is an LG 42 LW5700.


Thanks for watching 'Sammys Adventure: A turtle's Tale 3D' , it's good to know that it works for you. Definitely helps get a starting point for fixing the problem.


I was interested in your post when you wrote - "I would like you to verify is do you have your TV set for "simulated 3D"? Everything you describe sounds lke you have some TV settings completely wrong."


I'm not 100% what 'simulated 3D' is. My TV just detects 3D automatically. The only settings are depth (which is not always available), the left/right adjustment and then or the normal video settings.


3D can be changed to left/right screen, top/bottom screen or converted from 2D to 3D. This is so you can watch normal TV in 3D, but it's pretty average. I would say the issue of 3D settings is that there are only a few and they make no difference at all. But I do believe you are on to something.


Why would the Pop Out effect only work on downloaded Youtube clips ? instead of my 3D Blurays. There's got to be something in that.


Downloaded VS Bluray

USB VS HDMI (I am playing my clips through the usb port on the TV using a USB Stick 16GB)


I need a ripped, 3D Bluray so I play it back via the USB port. At least it would confirm that playback method is capable of Pop Out.


Thanks so much for replying to my posts. You have been extremely helpful. Hope you dont mind if I keep bugging you. I feel like I'm making some progress.


----------



## Noobytwo1

Just had a look through the TV Manual for the LG 42 LW5700.


3D settings (Mode) are 2D-3D (converted), Side by side, Top & Bottom, Checker Board and Frame Sequential.


----------



## Don Landis

Your LG Tv should switch to 3D frame packing automatically if your player is set for frame packing output, you are using an HDMI cable that is 1.4a compliant and you have not somehow over ridden your auto HDMI settings in the TV. If using a cable that is not 1.4a complaint your TV may go into one of the other modes which would likely be frame sequential and this would not look right for 3D from a modern 3D BluRay player.


In researching your TV I found that LG made an earlier version of the 42lw5700 that was only HDMI 1.3 compliant. This will be a problem that you might not resolve if you happen to have one of these earlier 3D TV's. However there is one possibility if you do. You can use a computer with a frame sequential capable video card that supports 3D frame sequential and get proper 3D that way. My concern here is that you said your TV supports Checkerboard and that mode has been obsolete for a few years.


First verify your cable is the latest spec HDMI cable. Make sure your BD player is set to output 1080 24p x 1920 frame packing and HDMI only. The LG TV if it is 1.4a complaint should then do everything automatically. The Toshiba 3D player should be 1.4 compliant as they were one of the first to offer that unless your player was made prior to 2010.


Finally, you need to understand the LG 3D TV has a narrow viewing angle. Make sure you are viewing square onto the center of the TV. Be at the same level, as line of vision must be perpendicular to the screen. This is true for all Passive panel TV's


----------



## Noobytwo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don Landis*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24102299
> 
> 
> Your LG Tv should switch to 3D frame packing automatically if your player is set for frame packing output, you are using an HDMI cable that is 1.4a compliant and you have not somehow over ridden your auto HDMI settings in the TV. If using a cable that is not 1.4a complaint your TV may go into one of the other modes which would likely be frame sequential and this would not look right for 3D from a modern 3D BluRay player.
> 
> I messed around with the 3D settings and realised these are only an option for when you are choosing to turn on 3D. If you put in a disc or USB it automatically plays in 3D. So at least I know that it's not one of those options. I have the latest HDMI 1.4a cable, however it's an Ebay cheapy so I could still try a more reliable source.
> 
> 
> In researching your TV I found that LG made an earlier version of the 42lw5700 that was only HDMI 1.3 compliant. This will be a problem that you might not resolve if you happen to have one of these earlier 3D TV's. However there is one possibility if you do. You can use a computer with a frame sequential capable video card that supports 3D frame sequential and get proper 3D that way. My concern here is that you said your TV supports Checkerboard and that mode has been obsolete for a few years.
> 
> The LG website says my TV is 1.4, but I'm not sure about the actual TV I have. I have looked through all the menus and the actual TV itself. The manufacture date is November 2011
> 
> 
> First verify your cable is the latest spec HDMI cable. Make sure your BD player is set to output 1080 24p x 1920 frame packing and HDMI only. The LG TV if it is 1.4a complaint should then do everything automatically. The Toshiba 3D player should be 1.4 compliant as they were one of the first to offer that unless your player was made prior to 2010.
> 
> HDMI - Could try buying from a more reliable source
> 
> BD Player - set to 1080 24p X 1920
> 
> Toshiba BD - HDMI 1.4
> 
> 
> Finally, you need to understand the LG 3D TV has a narrow viewing angle. Make sure you are viewing square onto the center of the TV. Be at the same level, as line of vision must be perpendicular to the screen. This is true for all Passive panel TV's


Yep, tried all viewing angles. I will continue on and try and figure this out.


----------



## Don Landis

If mfg of TV was Nov 2011 then it is 1.4a. I read that only the very first LG tv's were 1.3 and those were made in 2010. But since yours is switching automatically then that confirms the TV, BD Player and cable are all doing it's job.


One last idea- is your BD player connected to your TV directly, or through an AVR? The AVR must also be 3D compliant ( HDMI 1.4a) too or it will not pass the 3D from the player. What model AVR do you use? If you connect everything directly to the TV, and your PS3 has the same problems, then I am out of ideas.


----------



## Noobytwo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don Landis*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24108245
> 
> 
> If mfg of TV was Nov 2011 then it is 1.4a. I read that only the very first LG tv's were 1.3 and those were made in 2010. But since yours is switching automatically then that confirms the TV, BD Player and cable are all doing it's job.
> 
> 
> One last idea- is your BD player connected to your TV directly, or through an AVR? The AVR must also be 3D compliant ( HDMI 1.4a) too or it will not pass the 3D from the player. What model AVR do you use? If you connect everything directly to the TV, and your PS3 has the same problems, then I am out of ideas.



BD connected directly to TV via HDMI.


I will try and take the Toshiba and PS3 over to a friends place and watch it there. He has a newer model LG 3D TV.


Ruling out my ability to see pop out - I have seen the incredible potato cod via USB stick, it must be the My TV + HDMI ports. Unless the PS3 & Toshiba just so happen to be not able to produce pop out.


I will post again after I test my gear out on my friends set up.


----------



## Jedi2016

There is a depth setting in the TV, isn't there? I believe that does affect BD playback as well as converted material, that can shift the focal plane forward and back. People sometimes use it to increase depth or pop-out. I was always careful to leave it alone. Director's intent and all, I just want to see it how it is on the disc. Maybe check all that and make sure everything is set to zero or default. As a last result, jot down your picture settings and set the whole thing back to factory. That should blow out anything you may have accidentally set.


I watched _Rise of the Guardians_ the other night, and it starts off with a snowflake that will make you lean back in your seat. Probably the most "far-reaching" pop-out I've got.


----------



## Don Landis

I have the PS3 and while I rarely use it for Blu Ray 3D ( I use the OPPO) I know there is no difference in the degree of depth. Jedi-there usually is no adjustment for the Z setting when using HDMI and 3D BD. On my displays here that is only available on the SBS or T/B settings. I believe he said the same thing about his LG.


I'm kind of out of ideas at this point.


----------



## Noobytwo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi2016*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24111708
> 
> 
> There is a depth setting in the TV, isn't there? I believe that does affect BD playback as well as converted material, that can shift the focal plane forward and back. People sometimes use it to increase depth or pop-out. I was always careful to leave it alone. Director's intent and all, I just want to see it how it is on the disc. Maybe check all that and make sure everything is set to zero or default. As a last result, jot down your picture settings and set the whole thing back to factory. That should blow out anything you may have accidentally set.
> 
> 
> I watched _Rise of the Guardians_ the other night, and it starts off with a snowflake that will make you lean back in your seat. Probably the most "far-reaching" pop-out I've got.



The depth setting is no available during the film. Only the L/R adjustment. I dont know why. I remember playing around with it ages ago and it didnt help.


Already at a factory reset now.


I'm really interested now In finding out if my TV has a problem. Hopefully this week I can take the Toshiba and PS3 over to a friends and watch some movies there.


----------



## Noobytwo1

This is like torture!!!!!!!


I read in a Samsung forum that someone changed their aspect ration from 16:9 to screen fit and it made a huge difference to the 3D Pop effect.


Got very excited as this is one setting I have not changed yet, I always watch everything in 16:9 so never considered it. I don's have 'screen fit' but my TV has 'Just Scan' and 'Original'. Alas I tried both and there was no change at all.


----------



## cinema13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noobytwo1*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24115325
> 
> 
> The depth setting is no available during the film. Only the L/R adjustment. I dont know why. I remember playing around with it ages ago and it didnt help.



If you use the set's 2D to 3D conversion, you can usually set the depth setting and it should carry over


----------



## Noobytwo1

Well I finally figured it out........ I think.......pretty sure.


I had watched the 'potato cod' scene probably a month back and used that as a starting point for solving my 3D pop problem. The potato cod works, it was watched via USB so that was my starting point. I thought possibly it was a HDMI problem or my settings for the HDMI AV channels.


A relative came to visit yesterday and I said "Just to have another pair of eyes can you tell me what you see with some 3D via USB, Toshiba Bluray and PS3". As I have said a number of times I am a desperate man. She watched the Potato Cod scene first and was blown away. This was the point where I realised that for me there was no 'Pop Out Effect'. I though it worked a month back but after watching it again I realised it was just some incredible depth and kind of like fake 3D. In reality the Potato Cod was hitting the screen, he couldnt get out!


My family member described (as I had once) the Potato Cod as being right in the middle of the room and getting closer. Sammys Adventure had the same effect. She was pointing to parts of the room where she could see the sea horse and other pop out moments. Same again with Despicable Me.


So apparently the answer is (something I didn't even consider) I CANT SEE 3D ANYMORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So time to stop playing around with cables and go visit an optometrist.


On a routine checkup (few times in the last 10 years) I have always had the same problem. One eye is stronger than the other. I wonder if this could be the cause?

So weird that depth is not a problem. Depth looks amazing. But Pop Out is just not possible.


The part that threw me is that my wife basically reported the same finding as me when we watched 3D. Possibly for unknown reasons we have both become immune to 3D Pop.


It's all too strange for me. I need to rest my head.


Again, thank you for all your input.


----------



## Jedi2016




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noobytwo1*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24115665
> 
> 
> .. don's have 'screen fit' but my TV has 'Just Scan' and 'Original'.


As an aside, what you want is "Just Scan". That's LG's name for the proper pixel-for-pixel display with no zooming, cropping, or overscan. If anything, zooming the image up should actually intensify the 3D experience.


As for your eyes, yes, that will definitely do it. It's common for one eye to be slightly stronger than the other (mine's the right eye, even after LASIK, but I've always been right-eye dominant). As long as they're close, the brain can mux the images together for proper stereo vision, but if they're far out of whack, it's not uncommon for the brain to more or less ignore what's coming in from the bad eye. If it's just a focusing or astigmatism issue, glasses or contacts will work perfectly fine.


Anyway, good luck!


----------



## batsonm


pop out 3d out of the screen i*s awesome and i cant understand people who say its just a gimmick.*

*i have 42" lg passive tv.*

*there are not much menu options for the 3d menu, only change left/right and set angle point, that's it.*

 

the tv is in my room, so i watch movies from distance of 2.9 meters,

i found out one day that when i pulled the tv closer to me to 2 meters i had better pop out effect.

 

so why is it in theatre the effect is way better?

well its the screen size that matters here,

notice that if you have a movie like "imax under the see" with the potato fish breathtaking pop up 3d,

the pop out effect will be different in all sorts of devices like projectors, theatre or tv at home with the same file.

 

if you will take the same file and see it in theatre, the size is what will give you those floating images, and on tv at home you look on a miniature version of the film.

 

another example:

the movie "puss in boots" in the beginning of the film there is a landscape view that is meant to be close to your eyes, but you dont get the effect of the landscape fly near your eyes,

again its because the tv screen is too small for it to happen.

 

it seems that in those 3d tv's you dont get floating images unless you try hard and put effort to see them 

 

now i read somewhere that in order to get the effect like in the theatre of things actually happen in front of the screen,

you need to use a magnifier clip on (x2.5) in front of your 3d glasses,

it will scale the screen size and then you will be able to see the pop out effect close to your eyes.

i read it about the ACTIVE glasses,

i think it might be a solution,

also it says nothing about the PASSIVE 3d glasses.

 

what do you guys think?

anyone heard/tried the magnifying clip ons?

will it work for PASSIVE glasses?

 

take a look at one user who mention it like it is a know fact:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Ideas-Magnifier-Spectacles-Magnifying/dp/B004TRCWBA

*use with 3d glasses*


----------



## Noobytwo1

I booked in for an eye exam. I have not been in 10 years so thought it would be a good time. I asked while I was there about the 3D problem and they looked at me like I asked them to explain quantum physics in Chinese, backwards to me.


Not very hopeful that it will help but who knows. I will give it a go and report back AGAIN!


----------



## TVSTAR

Don,


I have a new 27" passive 3D monitor and tried looking at your 3D videos, but could only see them in SBS, whereas other 3D videos allow me to choose interleaved. The monitor does SBS, but only at full screen, and then the images have too much separation. Just wondering why your 3D doesn't have the interleaved option.


----------



## Don Landis

Not sure why it doesn't show up for you. A few months ago You Tube changed the way it displays 3D videos for viewers. It used to works quite well but all my older videos now do not play in 3D for some people. YT has never answered my questions on this. I normally upload my programs in 3D SBSh, 1080 30i. For some reason Bellagio Gardens does not hgave 3D options while all the other do.


I just checked and all my 3D videos except the Bellagio Gardens has the interleaved option. If you don't see this and need it, maybe you can send in a complaint to YT. I can't do anything here since I see interleaved so it must be something YT doesn't permit with your setup.


I'm not where I can check on a 3D monitor and using a MS Surface Pro and I can set the 3D for anaglyph.


----------



## TVSTAR

Don,


Doh!--I didn't look beyond the Bellagio Gardens. Yes the others do work. The Kennedy Space Center tour is as good or better than anything I've seen on TV--what camera(s) did you use? As a side note, I was an Air Force Defense Controller at the time of the moon landing, and we had very sophisticated computers to track all the aircraft on radar for the total western, Canadian, and eastern seaboards. These computers (about the size of a refrigerator), came out of the transistor research done by Bell Labs and a computer language developed by Rand Corp. for the moon landing. I always laugh when I hear that compute power back then was very minimal--maybe in the lunar module--but in the tracking facility, trust me it was not. You can see by the sophistication of the tracking monitors that something had to be tying all this equipment together in the back room. Anyway, I digress, but your video really shows the engineering prowess developed in that era, and it was all total leading edge stuff for the time period. Look forward to viewing your other videos as well.


Bob


----------



## Noobytwo1

Just got back from eye exam. No problems at all, no need for glasses.


Even had a 3D test (think the Optometrist called it a binocular test), basically it's a book and you put on a pair glasses (same as the cinema ones) and I could see every single thing I was supposed to see no matter how minor it was jumping out of the page.


At most she could only tell me that there are some exercises you can do to improve 3D (binocular) vision but I would have to go to someone else who is specialised in that area.


I dont know if any of it will help because I think she was expecting me to have some type of vision problem that would explain the 3D pop issue I am having. However she did say it was an issue that people have and can develop.


I will continue to search for answers.


Q. I have Googled the hell out of the internet and cannot find eye exercises to improve your 3D viewing experience. Has anyone found anything like this in their travels ?


----------



## batsonm


i manage to enhance the pop out effect,

try to put something between you and the tv screen to have a reference point.

 

for example,

if you are lying on your bed, put a chair between you and the tv in a way that the upper chair edge will be more or less in the height of the lower edge of the tv screen,

that way you no longer have to "guess" how much the imaged "popped".

 

"imax under the sea" fishes looks floating above and in front of the screen this way,

you can see them swim before the chair and you cant be mistaken about the pop out here.


----------



## TVSTAR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noobytwo1*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24121184
> 
> 
> The part that threw me is that my wife basically reported the same finding as me when we watched 3D. Possibly for unknown reasons we have both become immune to 3D Pop.
> 
> 
> It's all too strange for me. I need to rest my head.
> 
> 
> Again, thank you for all your input.



I have witnessed this in early beginning watching 3D and found that the images were switched--ie. L/R was R/L. I had to select that the images be switched back. That said, sometimes it's in the glasses themselves. Some will work fine, while others are always out of sync. Could this be your problem?


The other thing to try is to measure the distance between your pupils. It should be about 2.5". It's the separation for infinity that is used by cinematographers. If your separation is much greater or less, then you might not see 3D the same way that the average person does. Either way, it should not be something to worry about. Just enjoy what you can and be thankful you have two eyes and not one







.


Another influence is the size of your screen and how far you sit from it. A smaller screen will have less separation and change the window. Or try increasing or decreasing the separation in your bluray player if that is a feature--my Sony player does this. Also, sitting closer will compress the 3D decreasing depth between objects and sitting further away will elongate it--adds more depth between objects. Try moving your watch zone.


----------



## cakefoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *batsonm*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/180#post_24166804
> 
> 
> i manage to enhance the pop out effect,
> 
> try to put something between you and the tv screen to have a reference point.
> 
> 
> for example,
> 
> if you are lying on your bed, put a chair between you and the tv in a way that the upper chair edge will be more or less in the height of the lower edge of the tv screen,
> 
> that way you no longer have to "guess" how much the imaged "popped".
> 
> 
> "imax under the sea" fishes looks floating above and in front of the screen this way,
> 
> you can see them swim before the chair and you cant be mistaken about the pop out here.


I think we've trained ourselves to ignore the screen's existence, and just get immersed in the various layers of separation inside the movie worlds themselves.


----------



## batsonm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cakefoo*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/210#post_24172766
> 
> 
> 
> I think we've trained ourselves to ignore the screen's existence, and just get immersed in the various layers of separation inside the movie worlds themselves.


there is some training in my opinion because i cant seem to get the effect as before,

but i cant ignore the fact that when i see the movie on the big imax screen, i can see the effect close to my eyes as in millimeters.

 

when a dinosaur open its mouth in the big screen, i can see his holes in is teeth.

havent seen this effect at home, last thing for me to check is putting the magnifying glass clip on over the 3d glass,

i ordered a pair, i dont know if it will work on polarized glasses,

and i dont know if the clip on i ordered will be good.(i ordered the one with lever that clips to your glass and the lenses are couple of inches in front of the 3d glass lenses)

 

anyway, i will check it out and update here.


----------



## ferl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *batsonm*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/210#post_24172879
> 
> 
> there is some training in my opinion because i cant seem to get the effect as before,
> 
> but i cant ignore the fact that when i see the movie on the big imax screen, i can see the effect close to my eyes as in millimeters.
> 
> 
> when a dinosaur open its mouth in the big screen, i can see his holes in is teeth.
> 
> havent seen this effect at home, last thing for me to check is putting the magnifying glass clip on over the 3d glass,
> 
> i ordered a pair, i dont know if it will work on polarized glasses,
> 
> and i dont know if the clip on i ordered will be good.(i ordered the one with lever that clips to your glass and the lenses are couple of inches in front of the 3d glass lenses)
> 
> 
> anyway, i will check it out and update here.



You're messing with us, right?

On the "big screen" that tooth is probably the size of a small car. You can't compare a home display to a 75' screen.

Maybe you need a bigger TV instead of a magnifying glass. You're not sitting 20' away from a 40" display are you?


----------



## batsonm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ferl*  /t/1344145/3d-pop-out-question/210#post_24173559
> 
> 
> 
> You're messing with us, right?
> 
> On the "big screen" that tooth is probably the size of a small car. You can't compare a home display to a 75' screen.
> 
> Maybe you need a bigger TV instead of a magnifying glass. You're not sitting 20' away from a 40" display are you?


well, i read it in some forum but it was regarding active glasses.

im sure it wont be like in the movies, but i can not know till i try it myself.

 

you also got my point that is the size of the screen that matters here.


----------



## openInvent

bkfk said:


> Is your TV normally set at R/L or L/R?


My TV has no option to set RL mode but has a depth option -2 -1 0 1 2 closest stereoscopic to furtherest 
See this


----------



## openInvent

Edit on the sony TV you have set auto detect option and manually enter 3d mode for smart tv use YouTube app type 3d into search and look for this video with snake its an incredible pop effect also you can set the options top left of remote for 3d and button on right for other settings on my sony


Noobytwo1 said:


> Well I finally figured it out........ I think.......pretty sure.
> 
> 
> I had watched the 'potato cod' scene probably a month back and used that as a starting point for solving my 3D pop problem. The potato cod works, it was watched via USB so that was my starting point. I thought possibly it was a HDMI problem or my settings for the HDMI AV channels.
> 
> 
> A relative came to visit yesterday and I said "Just to have another pair of eyes can you tell me what you see with some 3D via USB, Toshiba Bluray and PS3". As I have said a number of times I am a desperate man. She watched the Potato Cod scene first and was blown away. This was the point where I realised that for me there was no 'Pop Out Effect'. I though it worked a month back but after watching it again I realised it was just some incredible depth and kind of like fake 3D. In reality the Potato Cod was hitting the screen, he couldnt get out!
> 
> 
> My family member described (as I had once) the Potato Cod as being right in the middle of the room and getting closer. Sammys Adventure had the same effect. She was pointing to parts of the room where she could see the sea horse and other pop out moments. Same again with Despicable Me.
> 
> 
> So apparently the answer is (something I didn't even consider) I CANT SEE 3D ANYMORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> So time to stop playing around with cables and go visit an optometrist.
> 
> 
> On a routine checkup (few times in the last 10 years) I have always had the same problem. One eye is stronger than the other. I wonder if this could be the cause?
> 
> So weird that depth is not a problem. Depth looks amazing. But Pop Out is just not possible.
> 
> 
> The part that threw me is that my wife basically reported the same finding as me when we watched 3D. Possibly for unknown reasons we have both become immune to 3D Pop.
> 
> 
> It's all too strange for me. I need to rest my head.
> 
> 
> Again, thank you for all your input.


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## ScottAvery

Thank you for bringing this post back to the front. I had searched for help and not found this thread. I have also lost the ability to see negative parallax and it drives me nuts. I don't see any actual solutions here, but the rumor that there is a way to strengthen aged eyes gives me a tiny bit of hope, and sometimes that is all we need...


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