# Sticky  Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only



## WilliamR


This thread is for all discussion related to burn in, IR, and break in questions/concerns/info on flat panel TVs. Please post all discussions on this topic in this thread.


With today's new technologies (2007 and beyond) burn in is nearly non-existence if users use common sense. While still possible, it is highly unlikely if common care is used. A lot of newer TV's (i.e. Pioneer's 8th gen sets) have new technologies that help to also prevent IR. Combined with break in and common care/use, IR can be dramatically reduced if not even eliminated completely.


This thread is for the Plasma and LCD Flat Panel Displays Forum: there is a SEPARATE thread for RPTV 


Download Break In DVD (SVCD) 

 

New information added on 12/6/12:

 

This was from 2007.

 

_"THE REALIZATION of high-quality plasma display panels (PDPs) requires an urgent solution to the image sticking or image retention problems induced in PDP cells after strong sus-tain discharges have been repeatedly produced during a sustain period [1]–[9]. Image retention means temporal image sticking that is easily recoverable through minor treatment, whereas image sticking is permanent and not recoverable even with severe treatment."_


As you see, they talk about Image Retention (as we know it) and that is "temporal image sticking" whereas "image sticking" (without a qualifier) is what we here term Burn-in. Now if you read the fix was 100 hours of full white but at a level much higher than we can generate with our TVs. However, what they threw at the tv to get the alleged permanent image sticking (and in the abstract they generated what they believed was permanent image sticking) was 500 hours continuously at an insanely high level (far higher levels than any current plasma can reach even with the smallest of windows). So while a full white screen can get nowhere near the levels what they used for the "fix" by the same token what they used to generate the alleged permanent image sticking is also at a far higher level attainable with our TVs (and this was essentially 3 weeks continuous of the same image (abuse which we could not remotely duplicate in terms of brightness level).

 

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/recovery%20of%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20using%20aging%20discharge%20in%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf


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## markrubin

This is Part II of this subject: the original thread, started in 2004, is here: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608677 


Many things have changed with regard to this topic: please post your questions and comments here


Thanks to WilliamR for volunteering to maintain this new sticky


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## bonzo341

Does anybody know if the traditional break-in procedure is still neccessary for the Samsung 4254? I see that Sammy says that it's not.


I just purchased this set yesterday and haven't yet seen even the slightest trace of IR. I played Uncharted on PS3 with the ammo guage in the top left corner and watched a couple flicks with the black letterbox bars (albeit with the display settings dialed way down). Haven't seen anything to warrant a fright. I've been mighty careful, though, employing the screen wipe feature rather frequently.


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## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bonzo341* /forum/post/12399925
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if the traditional break-in procedure is still neccessary for the Samsung 4254? I see that Sammy says that it's not.
> 
> 
> I just purchased this set yesterday and haven't yet seen even the slightest trace of IR. I played Uncharted on PS3 with the ammo guage in the top left corner and watched a couple flicks with the black letterbox bars (albeit with the display settings dialed way down). Haven't seen anything to warrant a fright. I've been mighty careful, though, employing the screen wipe feature rather frequently.



Its not that any particular TV needs the break in DVD, but if you are using a Plasma TV its a good idea to break it in first. The plasma's cells need some time to "break in" and it helps them to prevent IR because they have been used for awhile and not as prone to IR.


How are you checking for IR? You need to turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it, stand close to the TV and have no lights on, that is the best way to see any IR. Its not normal viewing but it will help.


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## bonzo341

Thanks for the response, William. I was actually doing exactly the opposite: setting the screen to white and scoping it out up close. Shows what I know . . .


EDIT: Following your method, I still see no trace of IR. But I'll be cautious for the first couple hundred hours, nonetheless.


Off-topic: This machine is eff'n beautiful!


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## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bonzo341* /forum/post/12410503
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response, William. I was actually doing exactly the opposite: setting the screen to white and scoping it out up close. Shows what I know . . .
> 
> 
> EDIT: Following your method, I still see no trace of IR. But I'll be cautious for the first couple hundred hours, nonetheless.
> 
> 
> Off-topic: This machine is eff'n beautiful!



Excellent!


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## flagyl

Thanks for restarting the thread. I searched the old one but I didn't find any settings for my situation. I have a 24 hour old Pio 110 FD







. I want to break this thing in gently, because I will be watching alot of ESPN, football, gaming etc (I have stayed away from ESPN so far and no games).


Does anyone have any advice? Thanks.


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## swlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flagyl* /forum/post/12475442
> 
> 
> Thanks for restarting the thread. I searched the old one but I didn't find any settings for my situation. I have a 24 hour old Pio 110 FD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I want to break this thing in gently, because I will be watching alot of ESPN, football, gaming etc (I have stayed away from ESPN so far and no games).
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any advice? Thanks.



Check out the Pioneer Kuro Settings/Issues thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851 


Lots of guidance (and suggested settings ...) for break-in.


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## mikecoscia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *do not freeze* /forum/post/12475442
> 
> 
> i've had a panny th50px75 for about 100 hours and didn't run the break-in dvd. Now, if I run it a few times for a few hours every now and then, will it help to even the phosphor aging from 4:3 and non-zoomed watching on the TV. Or is it going to make matter worse? Screen uniformity looks perfect to me, but I don't wanna take any risk since my family has a hard time pressing on the button to switch aspect ratios on the TV.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, is it good to run the break-in dvd after the first 100 hours up to the next 200 hours?



I would Like to know this too. Is it useful to run the breakin DVD overnight every once in awhile, say once or twice a month to make sure everything is wearing evenly?


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## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecoscia* /forum/post/12556454
> 
> 
> I would Like to know this too. Is it useful to run the breakin DVD overnight every once in awhile, say once or twice a month to make sure everything is wearing evenly?



The break in DVD will help remove IR as well since it displays a full screen image. Once your set is broken in I, personally, do not believe that running it will break it in even more. The phospors have calmed down after a certain point and its ready to go.


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## mikecoscia

Okay have another question, is it okay to keep the TV running nonstop for the roughly 4 days it takes for the 100 hours of breaking in? I want to get it over with fast so I can start really watching movies and playing video games most of all. I just don't want to cook my set by leaving it on that long. I have it and my PS3 with the breakin DVD running almost 24 hours now as it is.


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## Nickerz

Okay, I'm confused. I've heard many say that burn in is not an issue with plasma's as it was before. So if this is true, is the break-in period still a concern? Do the manufacturers recommend breaking in the panel? If not, why are we doing it? I would actually think that the manufacturers would already break the plasmas in before shipping them out, no?


I'm wondering if this is similar to ones who say to break in a new car gently or drive it hard, like you stole it. I personally was one that drove my car like I stole it! I NEVER had any issues with it either and the engine was VERY strong! So is breaking in a plasma just a bunch of hype?


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## nolefan9399

next week I will be getting the samsung 5884







. is the break in still important for the newer modes?


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## tlak

I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes









Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?

Any comments?

Thanks.


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## nolefan9399

new to plasama. what does IR mean?


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## tlak

Image Retention

"Image retention occurs when the ghost of an image appears on the screen. Displaying an image in the exact same position for long periods can cause image retention. Static images can cause image retention."

And as far as I understand IR is not permanent - goes away, burn-in doesn't.


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## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlak* /forum/post/12600354
> 
> 
> I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks.



Couldn't be burn in after just a few hours. It is IR. Run the break in DVD or full screen, HD content from something like Discovery HD or a movie and it should eventually go away.


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## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nickerz* /forum/post/12584584
> 
> 
> Okay, I'm confused. I've heard many say that burn in is not an issue with plasma's as it was before. So if this is true, is the break-in period still a concern? Do the manufacturers recommend breaking in the panel? If not, why are we doing it? I would actually think that the manufacturers would already break the plasmas in before shipping them out, no?
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if this is similar to ones who say to break in a new car gently or drive it hard, like you stole it. I personally was one that drove my car like I stole it! I NEVER had any issues with it either and the engine was VERY strong! So is breaking in a plasma just a bunch of hype?



Break in is still important as it gives the panel time to settle in. Plasma's seem to be more prone to IR in the first few hundreds hours of use until it gets some use. People also seem to report that their picture quality improves after being used for awhile. I can testify to that. I had shimmering pixels at first and thought my set was going to need to be returned. After about 150 hours the shimmering vanished completely. I was told it was because the set needed time to settle in.


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## optivity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlak* /forum/post/12600354
> 
> 
> I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks.



No, but you do have a "nasty" case of temporary IR; which will require many hours of watching _only_ full screen content to eliminate. If you follow my recommendations and check your panel periodically, eventually you will see the IR is gone.


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## paulsoaresjr

Been running the break-in DVD (thanks Evangelo2!) for 36 hours on my new Panny 50PX75U with a standard DVD player, full screen, and it seems to be going well.


Question is, do I really need to do this for 2 more days? Wouldn't a movie (w/no bars) accomplish the same thing? I won't be watching any broadcast programming or playing video games on this set so I'd imagine with a movie the scenes change quickly and often enough to avoid any burn-in.


Just curious...I want to watch something on this puppy!


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## optivity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulsoaresjr* /forum/post/12686223
> 
> *Been running the break-in DVD* (thanks Evangelo2!) for 36 hours on my new Panny 50PX75U with a standard DVD player, full screen, and it seems to be going well.
> 
> 
> Question is, do I really need to do this for 2 more days? *Wouldn't a movie (w/no bars) accomplish the same thing?*



Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.









_*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_


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## jlasich

After viewing four hours of 2.35:1 material last night, I noticed that I had some IR from the black bars on my 110 hour panny th-42pz77u. It took another one to one-and-a-half hours of viewing 16x9 material before I could no longer see the black bars. The black bar IR wasn't noticeable in the viewing material but definitely noticeable on a no-signal screen. I have done a complete break-in of the set and waited until after the 100-hour mark to view 2.35 material. I have a unique question regarding IR that I have not seen addressed previously:

*If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?*


After seeing this, and seeing how easily IR appears (IR was even left from my computer's boot-up screen while it was detecting IDE drives, man of 10 seconds; albeit the tv had very few hours on it at the time and now I've noticed that there is no IR during the same procedure), I think I would have bought LCD instead but that is not an option now.


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## Darcy Hunter




> Quote:
> If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?



I was curious about this as well. My Hitachi P42H401 has about 500 hrs on it and I still get the occasional IR.


As well, I would like to know when exactly does IR turn into permanent burn-in. I've owned two RPTV CRTS in the past (one SD and one HD), and have watched plenty of 2.35:1 content on them with no hint of burn-in. I know that you have to be careful with plasmas, but I don't want to be worried that by watching say Lord of the Rings, I'm potentially creating long term damage. I have my contrast setting below 50%, and have all picture enhancing options turned off, but hearing some horror stories of plasma owners having burn-in of station logos and such from minimal viewing time is worrisome.


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## brentsg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> 
> Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_



In your opinion...


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## achtung1

I have burned all 3 of the burn in dvd files, .nrg etc. I am just getting "root" on my samsung hd950. How do I play the dvd burn in sequence. When i select root it does nothing...


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## jlasich

Any answer to the question I asked about in my previous post? Anyone?


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## brentsg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlasich* /forum/post/12714129
> 
> 
> After viewing four hours of 2.35:1 material last night, I noticed that I had some IR from the black bars on my 110 hour panny th-42pz77u. It took another one to one-and-a-half hours of viewing 16x9 material before I could no longer see the black bars. The black bar IR wasn't noticeable in the viewing material but definitely noticeable on a no-signal screen. I have done a complete break-in of the set and waited until after the 100-hour mark to view 2.35 material. I have a unique question regarding IR that I have not seen addressed previously:
> 
> *If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?*
> 
> 
> After seeing this, and seeing how easily IR appears (IR was even left from my computer's boot-up screen while it was detecting IDE drives, man of 10 seconds; albeit the tv had very few hours on it at the time and now I've noticed that there is no IR during the same procedure), I think I would have bought LCD instead but that is not an option now.



Don't worry about it. You're not going to hurt it by turning it off when you're done. If you do buy into the break-in concept, I think 100 hours isn't that much time.


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## The Jerm

Tace13: "Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen. It had been frozen there for 6 hours. Pretty happy about that."


If it was stuck on pure green for a long time that means your green phosphors got a nice workout and are now a bit weaker than your blue and red ones. So everything might look a bit more magenta (blue + red = magenta) than usual for a while until it evens out.


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## The WEBSTER

I just got my TH-42PZ700U set up but i cant burn a dvd right now due to the lack of empty disks. And i will not have my HD cable box until tomorrow. Is it ok if i watch tv with no static image in zoom mode so that there are no black bars? Would this be effective as a break in technique until i can get set it to Discovery HD for a few days?


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## OhCalcutta

I understand from reading the threads here that I don't need to be overly concerned about IR as long as I take care and have broken the set in properly.


I've successfully completed the first 100 hours. What was surprising, though, was Panasonic recommending that for the next 900 hours, I limit letterbox movies to 15% of my viewing time. That figures to approximately one 2-hour movie per 13 hours of set use.


All I'm interested in watching is movies (which is why I insisted on best PQ), and most of those movies are letterboxed. (I'd like to watch the movies as intended, so stretching or zooming is not a good solution.)


Until I reach 1000 hours, I'm willing to run the break-in DVD all day after watching a movie to "make up" for watching it. However, will I need to continue this *forever*?


Did I make a bad call? I still have time to exchange for an LCD, but I LOVE the picture on my beautiful TH-50PX75U!


I'm hoping there's someone out there who watches primarily letterboxed movies and can tell me if this is really a concern. Thanks for bearing with me.


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## Forumite

I keep hearing people talk about breaking in the plasma for IR (infrared?). What exactly is it that makes it bad and does all plasmas have it because I also see where people are saying they can view almost out of the box.


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## Forumite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_



After reading this I am now scrared to death about fudging up my plasma.


Limit gaming to 10% of total viewing for the first 1,000 hours? Are you kidding me?


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## hunter111

I am using the burn-in dvd on my Panasonic TH-42PX75U. I have noticed that on light colored screens there is a thin green line on the right edge of the screen and one purple line on the left edge of the screen. This appears to go away on darker colored screens. I have the TV in zoom mode. Further increasing the zoom with the dvd player doesn't eliminate the colored lines so I don't think it's an aspect issue. Using a different dvd player didn't change it so it must be the TV.


Does anyone else notice these lines on their screen during break-in? Is there any possible remedy? I'm concerned that the uneven aging of the phosphors on the edges will lead to lines there permanently.


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## MFA_GLS

mn ,.


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## swlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hunter111* /forum/post/12847097
> 
> 
> I am using the burn-in dvd on my Panasonic TH-42PX75U. I have noticed that on light colored screens there is a thin green line on the right edge of the screen and one purple line on the left edge of the screen. This appears to go away on darker colored screens. I have the TV in zoom mode. Further increasing the zoom with the dvd player doesn't eliminate the colored lines so I don't think it's an aspect issue. Using a different dvd player didn't change it so it must be the TV.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else notice these lines on their screen during break-in? Is there any possible remedy? I'm concerned that the uneven aging of the phosphors on the edges will lead to lines there permanently.



I'd worry too ...


Just as an experiment, try changing cables between your DVD player and TV. For example, if you're using HDMI now, try switching to component or even S-video connections. Also, if your TV has more than one of a given input (component, for example), try switching to a different input. If there's a problem anywhere between your DVD player and your TV, maybe this will isolate it ...


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## burnbitten

Hi everyone...new to the forum but a long time reader.


Unfortunately, as my screen name indicates, I did not read enough because I missed the 3 simple rules for plasma tv break-in;

1 - Limit watching programs in 4:3

2 - Set the side bars to grey for instances when you do watch 4:3 programming

3 - Decrease the brightness/contrast settings


The end result is that I have noticable screen burn-in during wide screen HD programming. I am really frustrated because this is a brand new (3 weeks old) Samsung FP-T5884 and I already have burn-in. So now...the questions;


1 - I have read quite a bit and there seems to be no 'solid' way of rectifying this. I have seen folks talk about running the screen wipe and white screen tools for hours at a time as well as an idea to produce a reverse image (white bars on the outside and black within) however, the latter seems risky regarding duration, alignment, etc. Has anyone had success with a particular method? I did see a product out there called JScreenFix - anyone have experience with it?


2 - In an effort to reduce the effect, is it best to change my side bars to grey for 4:3 viewing or use the stretch feature or will neither do the trick?


3 - As I am about 150 hours in, do I need to still reduce my contrast/brightness settings? If so, will this decrease my chances of making it fade by utilizing either of the methods above?


4 - Best Buy has a 30 day return policy. I realize that burn-in is not a warranty issue however, all of research beforehand spoke about how plasma technology has evolved and burn-in instances are minimal. If I simp,y tell Best Buy that I am not happy with it and want a replacement, will this fly?


Sorry for the long post and questions however, I am really frustrated and can use some sound advice....


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## brentsg

Run the scrolling white bar screen b/c it's prob just image retention.


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## burnbitten

Thanks brentsg.


The tools I have are a static white screen or a screen wipe which is a cycle of blacks->greys->whites that moves right to left. In the Samsung manual, it claims that the wipe is more effective than the static white. For the past 2 nights, I have turned this on and then set the tv sleep timer for 2 hours. So far, I have seen very little improvement. Is 2 hours long enough or do I need to keep doing this for a few more days?


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## swlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burnbitten* /forum/post/12892958
> 
> 
> The tools I have are a static white screen or a screen wipe which is a cycle of blacks->greys->whites that moves right to left. In the Samsung manual, it claims that the wipe is more effective than the static white. For the past 2 nights, I have turned this on and then set the tv sleep timer for 2 hours. So far, I have seen very little improvement. Is 2 hours long enough or do I need to keep doing this for a few more days?



Here's a whole thread devoted to the JScreenFix utility:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=966195 


This is certainly worth a try. You can either play this utility from a computer, or go to their "screen fixing videos" link and download a DVD image file and burn it to a disc. Try this for a few hours with your TV set at one of the higher brightness & contrast presets (such as "dynamic"). Make sure you're "zoomed" to fill the screen! See if it helps; if so, continue ....


Good luck!


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## DBLASS

All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. The idea in all of this break-in is to prevent any set of phosphors to be used longer than the rest. If an image (especially in white) is left on longer than the rest of the display, somewhere between hour 1 and hour 1000, the brightness can/will drop when compared to the rest of the display. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.


There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.


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## fogey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DBLASS* /forum/post/12895152
> 
> 
> All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. The idea in all of this break-in is to prevent any set of phosphors to be used longer than the rest. If an image (especially in white) is left on longer than the rest of the display, somewhere between hour 1 and hour 1000, the brightness can/will drop when compared to the rest of the display. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.
> 
> 
> There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.



As far, as I know, phosphors of CRTs are actually much less susceptible to IR or burn-in, because cathod rays are much gentler to them than ultraviolet light, emitted from gas in every micro cell of the display in PDP.


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## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DBLASS* /forum/post/12895152
> 
> 
> All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.
> 
> 
> There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fogey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far, as I know, phosphors of CRTs are actually much less susceptible to IR or burn-in, because cathod rays are much gentler to them than ultraviolet light, emitted from gas in every micro cell of the display in PDP.



The IR and BI issue regarding PDP is rather controversial in my mind. I personally have developed some controversial beliefs in this matter based on scientific data. I also try to not push these beliefs too hard on others as the masses can get angry










But, in the name of science, I'll just provide some counterpoints.


1 - PDP phosphors are pre-baked in the manufacturing plant and this baking effectively pre-ages the phosphor (decreases luminence) which is supposed to eliminate the initial steep aging period.


2 - Actual lilfetime plots on PDPs or their individual phosphors are hard to find (especially recent data), but there is data showing that the initial steep phosphor aging may be a thing of the past.

http://www.displayconsultants.com/presentation/spie.swf 


High Xenon content PDPs generate lower energy photons that do not degrade the phosphor very quickly and thus lead to much longer life expectancy.


3 - IR is temporary and thus logically suggests that phosphor aging is not the cause. If so how can it be temporary?


4 - IR is explained in science journals as being related to wall charge accumulation and MgO vapor deposition. Both are reversible.


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## visual-era plus

If the Plasma has been run in for around 100+ hours and a DVD title menu is left on for an hour or 2 hours and the plasma goes into dim mode will there still be burn in? The TV is Panasonic 42 PZ700 and its settining were 35-40% contrast and similar for brightness and on top of that the TV goes into Dim mode i.e. automatically lowers the brightness after a static image has been displayed.



Do Panasonic run in there TV sets at the factory stage for 100 hours?


Lets say that there is no burn in but would leaving a static image on in the break in period for a duration result in making the set more susceptible to retain images in the future?


Regarding the post above about phosper aging, as the DVD title menu was mostly white would the phospers that make the colour white have aged significantly more than the rest and is 2 hours of playing just one colour enougth to age it more so than others?



I have seen the posts of some very experienced posters like xrox and Randy and many more and would appreciate your opinion, and would like to hear from users who have left a static image on for a duration and had it cleared after normal viewing? Bare in mind i mean if a static image is left on during the break in period.




thanks


----------



## JohnnytheSkin

I know it's probably redundant, but I'm looking at the Kuro PRO-150FD as a replacement for my blooming Mits DLP. However, I am a pretty big gamer and that's where my concern with burn-in lies.


On a given week, my family and I probably put 20 hours of gaming (PS3 and 360), six hours of ultra widescreen movies, and maybe 10 hours of stretched SD or HD broadcasts...more during football season.


While I don't game for extremely long periods, I do frequently play for three hours or so at a time (the length of a good movie).


I know that plasma technology has improved, and to my eyes the Kuro is the best display I've ever seen. However, the whole burn-in issue is the big sticking point. We'll run the break-in DVD for a 100 hours or so, we keep our settings "correct", but I'm clueless about the orbiter (what does this do?) and whether my gaming will kill this display. I play several types of games, from sports and shooters to story based RPG's and Lego games with my son.


HELP!


----------



## tooalan

I'm coming up on the end of my 30 day "no questions" asked return period with BB.


I want to make sure I have NO dead pixels on my 42PZ700. Having searched this thread on a number of key words, it appears the only way to test for this is Evangelo2's Break In DVD. Is this correct? I tried to burn the Break In DVD last night on a friend's computer and it failed.


Does AVIA provide a similar capability with their calibration disk?


Thanks in advance for your responses


Cheers,


- Alan


----------



## Garman

Tooalan: The Avia Disc has some color screens that you can use for checking dead pixels or stuck on ones... I



All: I just picked up a 5080 and is there a test disc to use for this? I only have watched a few movies some in widescreen mode. I have put the TV on auto enlarge, and it seems to work very well on cable etc. I just popped in a movie for my Son who is home "Open Season" and it says aspect ration is 1:85 and my BD player is set to 16:9 or 16:9 Full and it still seems like the screen size is off a tad, seems more of a movie issue or Blu-Ray/TV settings. I also noticed a slight border of pixels that are black around the TV, is this the way the Pioneer is made? Thanks....


----------



## Lice

dumb question: When watching a movie, blue ray what have you, and the widescreen bars fill it up, one on the top and one on the bottom, does that lead to burn in?


So do i have to zoom in on all films that have this?


----------



## visual-era plus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lice* /forum/post/12969441
> 
> 
> dumb question: When watching a movie, blue ray what have you, and the widescreen bars fill it up, one on the top and one on the bottom, does that lead to burn in?
> 
> 
> So do i have to zoom in on all films that have this?



Its recommended that you watch full screen no borders for the first few houndred hours as some people have complained that they can see the lines of where the borders were. From what i have read to age the phospers evenly it should be full screen.


----------



## rams219

I have a Panasonic 58" plasma (its the 600u). My son played his Xbox 360 on it for a couple of months. There is one spot that has either IR or burn in Iam not sure which. I can only see it when there is a light color on the TV. I have disconected the Xbox 360 from the TV for about 2 weeks but the problem is still there. Does this sound like burn in or can it be fixed? Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rams219* /forum/post/12983007
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic 58" plasma (its the 600u). My son played his Xbox 360 on it for a couple of months. There is one spot that has either IR or burn in Iam not sure which. I can only see it when there is a light color on the TV. I have disconected the Xbox 360 from the TV for about 2 weeks but the problem is still there. Does this sound like burn in or can it be fixed? Thanks in advance for any help.



Did he play the same thing on the 360 for months or did he mix his games up? Was the TV used for anything else other then 360 games? Movies, TV shows? If he played one game for months without changing it up any, it could be burn in. If he mixed it up, played various games, watched a movie, watched TV, etc. then it is IR and can go away.


----------



## rams219

He played the one game a lot but we did watch TV and played some other games. What can I do to try to get rid of it?


----------



## Muckrak3r

Okay first of all, great info in this and the other thread (although I cant read all 100 pages of it prior to getting my tv).


Is there an issue with hanging the plasma on a wall bracket right out of the box? I read someones post in the other thread saying they were breaking it in on the tv stand prior to hanging it. Why? I will do this if it is recommended, but I would much rather hang it immediately.



Also, burn-in is obviously a huge concern. However, I would prefer to not mindlessly run the burn-in prevention dvd for 100 hrs or whatever if I don't have to. As long as I only watch full screen tv, I should be okay with burn in right?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rams219* /forum/post/12992998
> 
> 
> He played the one game a lot but we did watch TV and played some other games. What can I do to try to get rid of it?



Run the break in DVD or watch full screen HD content for a couple weeks.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muckrak3r* /forum/post/13021672
> 
> 
> Also, burn-in is obviously a huge concern. However, I would prefer to not mindlessly run the burn-in prevention dvd for 100 hrs or whatever if I don't have to. As long as I only watch full screen tv, I should be okay with burn in right?



As long as it doesn't have a static logo nad it is full screen HD content, yes, you should be fine.


----------



## Muckrak3r




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13023174
> 
> 
> As long as it doesn't have a static logo nad it is full screen HD content, yes, you should be fine.



I have the Dish ViP 722. It will be HD content sent to this back room tv via coax. It will be downscaled to 480P, but will be full screen. Does it actually have to be full HD content? I can't imagine that would matter since it will be full screen.


edit: I don't care how big the tv is, I can't stand 4:3 content. It seems so odd.


----------



## Stoofpilot

I have a question. I am convinvced that I am going to buy a plasma yet last night while I was watching TV, I noticed that all of my local stations put a semi transparent station logo someplace on the viewing screen and they never move. NBC peacock was in the upper right corner, CBS was in the lower right corner, my local ABC station was in the lower left corner.


All of these are what I would call semi-transparent.


So my question is-what is the impact of these stationary logo's having a "burn in" effect with plasma's. If I watch NBC all night, am I going to have a NBC Peacock burn't in to the upper right part of the screen?


Thanks


----------



## optivity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stoofpilot* /forum/post/13144078
> 
> 
> If I watch NBC all night, am I going to have a NBC Peacock burn't in to the upper right part of the screen?



No, with frequent commercial interruptions, station logos are not displayed long enough to generate IR, unless the only channel you watch happens to be NBC.


Vary your viewing habits & watch as much full screen content as possible to eliminate any risk of permanent (a.k.a. burn in) image retention.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective


----------



## xxrockmanxneoxx

how low does the contrast and brightness has to be?


----------



## schugh

I am still a little confused about things.

The main thing is watching standard TV in 4x3 or letterboxed movies.

If I watch an hour or two of TV a day at 4x3 or a few letterboxed movies a week (few=2 or 4) will I have IR problems? Will I have uneven wear on the phosphor or will it not be significant enough for say 5 years (the length of time I will probably have this set).


I've read all the things and even a new article that burn-in etc is not an issue any more and yet here is a page from Pioneer in with my set telling me to avoid running the TV in 4x3 or watching letterboxed movies. But I didn't really buy the TV to watch my movies all stretched out of shape.


And I never really see any figures of how long it would take before you will see IR or uneven wear.


I am not very worried but am certainly very confused.


Please un-confuse me!


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schugh* /forum/post/13190147
> 
> 
> I am still a little confused about things.
> 
> The main thing is watching standard TV in 4x3 or letterboxed movies.
> 
> If I watch an hour or two of TV a day at 4x3 or a few letterboxed movies a week (few=2 or 4) will I have IR problems? Will I have uneven wear on the phosphor or will it not be significant enough for say 5 years (the length of time I will probably have this set).
> 
> 
> I've read all the things and even a new article that burn-in etc is not an issue any more and yet here is a page from Pioneer in with my set telling me to avoid running the TV in 4x3 or watching letterboxed movies. But I didn't really buy the TV to watch my movies all stretched out of shape.
> 
> 
> And I never really see any figures of how long it would take before you will see IR or uneven wear.
> 
> 
> I am not very worried but am certainly very confused.
> 
> 
> Please un-confuse me!



Overtime you will see uneven wear. Think about it, it really is straightforward. If the pixels at the top or sides are not displaying anything (they are black) but the rest of the TV has color then the areas not getting anything are going to wear different then the rest of the TV. Over time this will be come noticeable on an all black screen. Does it impact picture quality, I don't think so because these TV's display such a high brightness, color, etc. that you are not going to notice anything. If you do it extensively then over time you will notice it even on full screen, HD content, say like a white screen with ice/snow or something.


----------



## da_rushman

I own a Pioneer 5070HD and I've had it for ~10 months. Tomight I did something dumb, after watching a DVD I forgot to turn the TV off or switch back to the cable input. The TV sat there for ~45 minutes with no signal. When I came back to it and realizied what I had done I immediately switched it to the cable input and to my horror the whole screen had a purple tint. I assume the black stand-by signal burned in creating this. I read through the manual and there are no tools or settings on this thing to help burn in. What should I do?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *da_rushman* /forum/post/13213225
> 
> 
> I own a Pioneer 5070HD and I've had it for ~10 months. Tomight I did something dumb, after watching a DVD I forgot to turn the TV off or switch back to the cable input. The TV sat there for ~45 minutes with no signal. When I came back to it and realizied what I had done I immediately switched it to the cable input and to my horror the whole screen had a purple tint. I assume the black stand-by signal burned in creating this. I read through the manual and there are no tools or settings on this thing to help burn in. What should I do?



It isn't burn in, that would take a LOT longer. Simply run some HD, full screen content for awhile or download the break in DVD and run that for awhile.


----------



## da_rushman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13214558
> 
> 
> It isn't burn in, that would take a LOT longer. Simply run some HD, full screen content for awhile or download the break in DVD and run that for awhile.



You're right it wasn't burn in. Just really really really bad timing. Apparantly the cable came loose during that 45 minutes. Once the cable was in tight again the picture was perfect. I probably took 5 years off my life stressing over this though.


----------



## kam1996

 Here is the article


----------



## Salacak

great article, thanks for putting up


----------



## 6SpeedTA95

good article


----------



## skeelo58

The article is good, but if you read the readers comments at the bottom of the page, it is just a bunch of LCD fanboys out there who all claim there plasmas have burn-in. Either that, or they just say "plasmas will get burn-in, blah blah blah, thats why i will never have plasma and go with LCD"


I wish some people weren't so ignorant about TV's these days. LCD owner's seem to be the worst. Anyone else agree?


----------



## lipcrkr

Pixel orbiters, whitewash, try to limit sidebars, don't leave CNN tickers on too long, break in the first 100 hours, lower the contrast, vary your programming, don't fall asleep, etc etc.

Well, enjoy your TV.


----------



## RaiderRodney

Good post...sticky?


----------



## s2mikey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lipcrkr* /forum/post/13287614
> 
> 
> Pixel orbiters, whitewash, try to limit sidebars, don't leave CNN tickers on too long, break in the first 100 hours, lower the contrast, vary your programming, don't fall asleep, etc etc.
> 
> Well, enjoy your TV.



This is all over-stated of course, but the competing technology has to deal with:
Weak black levels
Shaky contrast
Uneven backlighting
Horrible viewing angles
Motion problems, even with 120Hz refresh which creates its own artifacts


Enjoy your LCD.


----------



## williamtassone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skeelo58* /forum/post/13287288
> 
> 
> The article is good, but if you read the readers comments at the bottom of the page, it is just a bunch of LCD fanboys out there who all claim there plasmas have burn-in. Either that, or they just say "plasmas will get burn-in, blah blah blah, thats why i will never have plasma and go with LCD"
> 
> 
> I wish some people weren't so ignorant about TV's these days. LCD owner's seem to be the worst. Anyone else agree?



many, but whats the first casualty of war?


try reasoning with the mums and dads out there that burn in is no longer an issue on modern plasmas


----------



## williamtassone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lipcrkr* /forum/post/13287614
> 
> 
> Pixel orbiters,
> 
> whitewash,
> 
> try to limit sidebars,
> 
> don't leave CNN tickers on too long,
> 
> break in the first 100 hours,
> 
> lower the contrast,
> 
> vary your programming,
> 
> don't fall asleep, etc etc.
> 
> Well, enjoy your TV.



all pretty much correct and should be done for the first 200 hours


I thought exactly like you lipcrkr: i was cautious of plasma cause i didnt like the thought of "burn in"


until i saw a calibrated Kuro and XBR bravia side by side


the six defenses you mentioned were a tiny price to pay in 200 hours for a picture quality 100 times better


theres a reason that all the AV mags ,even the ones not bribed ,have favoured one flat panel tech for video quality


----------



## final_thrill

I have a Samsung FPT5084 and its about 2 months old. I have noticed that it looks significantly better now than it did when I first bought it. I was wondering why this happens? What is the technical reason that this happens? Thanks.


----------



## joluar78

I just bought a panny last week. interested in buying a calibration dvd.


Which one would you guys recommend?


Thanks.


----------



## rdoggy1976

Just thought I'd chip in on the burn in discussion. I bought a Panasonic TH-50PZ77U plasma. Did a proper break in, turned the settings down to 0+, about 140 hrs of watching nothing but full screen with no static logos like HDTheatre and running a break in disc when I was sleeping and wasn't home to speed up the process. (6 days)


Then I did a basic calibration with a disc and abused it like I would any TV. 6+ hr gaming sessions with the same game, leaving ESPN and NFL Network on for hours at a time. I inspected it for IR everyday for a while, then every few day.... nothing. You would seriously have to TRY VERY HARD to cause IR on these TVs. The technology is finally mature enough and PQ is AWESOME!


----------



## zyxses

From day one I have watched anything and everything on my 50" LG plasma; 4:3 aspect, black bars top 'n' bottom, many hours of news and sports programmes with 'high contrast' logos info boxes etc and i've only noticed the very faintest of IR that you had to strain to see and that was gone within 10 minutes..

I didn't use any break-in DVDs or turn contrast down (set at 68), I just used it! I have good vision so should see any IR. Maybe I'm lucky? All I know is if I don't get IR after 6 hours of sport logos interrupted by very brief commercials...then I aint going to worry.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zyxses* /forum/post/13296902
> 
> 
> From day one I have watched anything and everything on my 50" LG plasma; 4:3 aspect, black bars top 'n' bottom, many hours of news and sports programmes with 'high contrast' logos info boxes etc and i've only noticed the very faintest of IR that you had to strain to see and that was gone within 10 minutes..
> 
> I didn't use any break-in DVDs or turn contrast down (set at 68), I just used it! I have good vision so should see any IR. Maybe I'm lucky? All I know is if I don't get IR after 6 hours of sport logos interrupted by very brief commercials...then I aint going to worry.



WOW!! You are a wild one







You pushed the envelope and still have no problems with your set! Good for you. I guess you have to Praise LG.


----------



## kmil

I plan to get the new '08 Panny TH-50PX80U hopefully in the very near future.


Here's my question: Is the a commercially available breakin DVD for a Plasma set. I am, to put it charitably, technologically challenged to say the least.

I just don't want to fool around trying to cut a DVD myself. Any commercially available plasma breakin DVD suggestions would be appreciated.


Thanks!!!


----------



## daniel'son

 http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


box of right hand side .. PayPal or Buy Now


----------



## kmil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13303295
> 
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> box of right hand side .. PayPal or Buy Now



What does that link mean in regards to my question of the of the possible availability of a DVD plasma breakin disk (one commercially available to buy)? I checked the above link and it just takes you to some site selling dvd's.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kmil* /forum/post/13303391
> 
> 
> What does that link mean in regards to my question of the of the possible availability of a DVD plasma breakin disk (one commercially available to buy)? I checked the above link and it just takes you to some site selling dvd's.



there's a box on right-hand side of browser; it states "Plasma BreakIn DVD" & provides option of purchasing thru PayPal or Buy Now. I know of 'no' other commercially produced Plasma break-in DVD. You could "Google" to see though.


----------



## hidef1000

Just wanted to know as I am going to be breaking in my plasma waych HD chaneels dont have static logo. I have Direct Tv and I heard some HD channels dont have static logos. Some have mentioned HD theatre and Discovery channel but I see they have logos but are they not considered static?


----------



## RaiderRodney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hidef1000* /forum/post/13308187
> 
> 
> Just wanted to know as I am going to be breaking in my plasma waych HD chaneels dont have static logo. I have Direct Tv and I heard some HD channels dont have static logos. Some have mentioned HD theatre and Discovery channel but I see they have logos but are they not considered static?



HD Theater pops their logo up when returning from a commercial but then fades away. For the most part it is logo free


----------



## rdoggy1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RaiderRodney* /forum/post/13308242
> 
> 
> HD Theater pops their logo up when returning from a commercial but then fades away. For the most part it is logo free



Yes, I watched a lot of HD Theatre on DirecTV during my break-in period.


----------



## hidef1000

I dont get my directtv HD til Monday. In the meantime can I run just a regular DVD to break it in. I have set the to standard full and have the contrast at 30 and brightness

at 0. Is that too much, ans can I break it in this way. Thanks


----------



## rdoggy1976

Just make sure your image is full screen with no black bars. On my Panny I turned contrast, pic, and brightness to 0. On the panny that is not all the way down though so it was still watchable. Depends on your TV.


----------



## Watership

I've been leaning towards a Plasma and I'm just waiting until the new Panasonic models come out, but I have one worry about some of the content I watch.


I have lots of 480p 4x3 DVD TV show content. When I'm watching it on my current Rear Projection HDTV, it's fine, I just leave the black bars on the sides. I dislike making the image full screen and getting distortion.


But when I move to Plasma, is this going to be a problem? Say I watch a dozen episodes of my 4x3 tv shows over a weekend, am I going to suffer IR or Burn in?


----------



## kam1996

I just got my Break-in DVD and have started the break-in process.

One thing I did not expect is that the colors are staying static on the screen for an awefully long time, almost 2 minutes.

Is that normal?


----------



## nonstop

A word of caution...


I fired up my new plasma for the first time yesterday, it's my first HDTV so I'm pretty excited. I wanted to expedite the break-in process, I didn't like the logo on Discovery HD (it did cycle off but came on a little too much for my taste) but I thought Starz would be a good option. So I turned on Starz turned the volume down and went to bed.


Well apparently my cable went out in the middle of the night, THANKFULLY either the TV recognized it or the cable box and the TV screen was blank when I caught it. I imagine a static image was up for awhile at some point (like the cable box interface), hopefully not for long. I was in a panic, from now on I'll definitely not be leaving cable on unattended. I downloaded a break-in DVD and have that running now.


----------



## Jodes

Has anyone with a recent generation plasma experienced uneven wear from letterbox movies? I do play quite a lot of games but I'm not actually worried about IR / burn-in from those. I'm more worried about watching 5+ movies a week and having the top and bottom of the panel wear out quickly.


I can get the IR from the bars to go away fairly quickly on my new Samsung FPT-5084 but I imagine they are going to wear in a lot less quickly than the portion showing video.


If anyone has experienced uneven wear, can you estimate how many movies a week you watched and how long it took?


----------



## hidef1000

I am running the break in dvd. I was wondering if everyone just lets it run 24/7 til you reach the 150 mark?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Watership* /forum/post/13313701
> 
> 
> I've been leaning towards a Plasma and I'm just waiting until the new Panasonic models come out, but I have one worry about some of the content I watch.
> 
> 
> I have lots of 480p 4x3 DVD TV show content. When I'm watching it on my current Rear Projection HDTV, it's fine, I just leave the black bars on the sides. I dislike making the image full screen and getting distortion.
> 
> 
> But when I move to Plasma, is this going to be a problem? Say I watch a dozen episodes of my 4x3 tv shows over a weekend, am I going to suffer IR or Burn in?



You will just get uneven phosphors wear not IR (unless the side bars are a certain color and not black).


----------



## virgil001

I just put my new Samsung 5084 up Friday, and I've been breaking it in ever since. Sanity check: Do you need to play HD content to break it in properly?


My HD DVR is due to arrive in the next couple of days, so I've been playing all SD content via S-video zoomed in. That would get all the phosphors working, right?


Thanks,

V


----------



## sinseven

All the HD programming has it.. in full screen that logo is still there...


With 10 minutes between commercials.. isn't that risky?


----------



## 6SpeedTA95

I'm worried about the same thing, those damn station logo's are absurd, I know what station I'm on, why do I need a stupid logo down there for 8 or 10 minutes in a row?


----------



## rdoggy1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *virgil001* /forum/post/13349310
> 
> 
> I just put my new Samsung 5084 up Friday, and I've been breaking it in ever since. Sanity check: Do you need to play HD content to break it in properly?
> 
> 
> My HD DVR is due to arrive in the next couple of days, so I've been playing all SD content via S-video zoomed in. That would get all the phosphors working, right?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> V



As long as it is a full screen image (which it should be in zoom mode) you are fine.


----------



## Fit2Run

Just got off the phone with a well known ISF calibrator from the NE. He stated you DO NOT need the Break in DVD just lower change certain settings (which is stated in this forum) and let it run al day for 100 hours. He said make sure you use a station where nothing is static.


Since I am not home all day I will be using the Break in DVD to assure no static. However I will run straight for 5 days.


----------



## Fit2Run




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hidef1000* /forum/post/13339557
> 
> 
> I am running the break in dvd. I was wondering if everyone just lets it run 24/7 til you reach the 150 mark?



Just got word from and ISF calibator that you can run it straight for 100 hours.


----------



## Xelai

I would like to comment on a weird thing that happens to my panel, it is a new Kuro, I played the Break In DVD for 150+ hours, and watched some full screen programming and so on.


When I completely turn the lights off and leave no signal on the screen the tv is completely black, but gradually some darker "stains" begin to appear, this would be in the area for subtitles ( I watch a lot of stuff with subtitles )and around the middle. If I change to another no signal channel, this effect disappears and then gradually appears again. If I maintain the same channel but change the siganl and then back to black, the same, disappears and gradually reappears.


I even have paused a really dark dark dark image on a dvd, and same happens, no effect but then gradually begins to appear.


I know it is not IR or burn in, because as I say, the effect is a darker "stain", IR is usually brighter, I am not excessively worried, but I am curious as to what could be the reason or if it will affect the panel in the future. For eveything else works awesome.


----------



## hidef1000

I ran the break in dvd for 150 hours. I was just wondering if there is anything else I need to do. If not, I can now start watching channels with logos and channels like cnn and cnbc with no problems correct?


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hidef1000* /forum/post/13373943
> 
> 
> I ran the break in dvd for 150 hours. I was just wondering if there is anything else I need to do. If not, I can now start watching channels with logos and channels like cnn and cnbc with no problems correct?



should be OK (i've read) .. as long as they're not run continuously (10hrs/5days-a-wk); I believe they break for commercials every so often so that helps but I'd also stagger the different broadcasts. LCD's are best if you plan on keeping "one" channel up continuously throughout the day. Too much you've invested to have it become a problem down the line.


----------



## LEVEL4

I moved my original post here, to a more appropriate thread in the forum . . . here .


----------



## toppel

I've been reading everyone's suggestions and information in this thread. Most of the advice is along the same lines but many suggestions or beliefs differ slightly. I decided to contact the Panasonic Concierge service in which you talk to a support rep. I have a panny TH-58PZ700U. I told him I had been sudying up on break in.


He told me to leave the default factory settings for the first 100 hours. He said, I didn't need to necessarly use H-fill to remove the side bars, but rather just watch the TV normally. I usually watch full screen HD, but occassionally watch 4:3 .......


The big thing I guess is the default color settings are set to vivid and not standard...That seems contrary to a lot of the advice in this forum as far as settings optimal for break in.


I thought I would ask for opinions on the instructions I received from panasonic..He repeated 3 times to leave the default settings and do not touch them for 100 hours. Also, that using a break in disk would not be necessary.


Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## dmusgrave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toppel* /forum/post/13421384
> 
> 
> I've been reading everyone's suggestions and information in this thread. Most of the advice is along the same lines but many suggestions or beliefs differ slightly. I decided to contact the Panasonic Concierge service in which you talk to a support rep. I have a panny TH-58PZ700U. I told him I had been sudying up on break in.
> 
> 
> He told me to leave the default factory settings for the first 100 hours. He said, I didn't need to necessarly use H-fill to remove the side bars, but rather just watch the TV normally. I usually watch full screen HD, but occassionally watch 4:3 .......
> 
> 
> The big thing I guess is the default color settings are set to vivid and not standard...That seems contrary to a lot of the advice in this forum as far as settings optimal for break in.
> 
> 
> I thought I would ask for opinions on the instructions I received from panasonic..He repeated 3 times to leave the default settings and do not touch them for 100 hours. Also, that using a break in disk would not be necessary.
> 
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.



Panasonic tech from the same service told me 100 hours on normal with Picture set to 0.


A member here was kind enough to send me a PDF from PANASONIC that includes the following information...


"Make sure the display is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely

fills the screen (there are often three or more settings from which to

choose). The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the

Just mode.


Turn down the picture control (contrast) to 50% or less.


Briefly engage the 4:3 mode to confirm the side bars are set to mid-gray

(there is usually an adjustment in the Set Up menu that takes the

sidebars from black to gray) to minimize the chance of burn-in.


Return the set to a full screen (Just, Zoom, Full) position during the

first hundred hours of use.


During the first hundred hours of use it is best not to view the same

channel for extended periods. This should prevent channel logos and

other fixed images found on some channels from being retained.


Avoid any static images (video games, computer images, DVD title

screens, etc.) during the hundred-hour break-in.


After the hundred-hour break-in period, during the next nine-hundred hours:


Continue to retain the picture setting at 50% or less.


Limit the use of 4:3 aspect ratio mode (traditional picture size that does

not fill the entire screen) to 15% of viewing time.


Limit the use of static images (computer, video games, etc.) to less than

10% of viewing time.


After one-thousand viewing hours, panels are much less likely to experience

image burn-in."


----------



## Buff-Daddy

I recently bought the Panasonic TH-50PZ77U and began running the break-in DVD's. I changed all of my settings to 0 and have been running the DVD for 3 days. I was not getting very dark colors, so I went back into the menu and noticed that my settings did not save. I have been running in Vivid mode for 3 days. Has this damaged my set? If so, what has this done and is there any way to fix it? It is now set to Cinema with all settings at 0. Help!


----------



## bruin95

After reading almost every post of this 4 page thread I'm really starting to wonder why anyone would buy a plasma. Seems like a MAJOR hassle. It seems like just about anything you watch on it can do harm to the set if you're not totally careful. I have a RP DLP now and wanted to get a plasma (mainly a Kuro or a Panny) by the end of the year. I watch alot of movies and still watch quite a bit of 4:3 programming. I can't stand to stretch it out. It looks like I'll be sticking with my RP. I have a 65" set now and want to stay at 60" or above, so LCD's are not an option. I can't see spending thousands on a set and having to constantly worry about letterboxing, scoreboards, station ID bugs, etc potentally ruining my investment. I just want to enjoy my set.


----------



## dmusgrave

My post, 4 or 6 pages long, got closed down because it didn't please the plasma fans.


I returned my Panasonic plasma and got... another plasma.


This one has no IR when I pull up a DVD menu. The last one had IR for 3 or 4 minutes after doing so.


I think my first one had a panel...


I gave up, took another Panasonic home, calibrated it (all settings are below 1/2... which is 0 or below on NEW Panasonic TVs apparently,) and I'm working on getting 100 hours of DVD and TV time with no static images on the TV.


Once that is done, I'll hook up the XBOX 360 and see how it goes.


The picture on this thing was just too good to go to LCD. If all is well after 100 hours break in my girlfriend and I both want to leave this 42" in the bedroom and get a bigger Panasonic plasma for the living room.


Yes, plasma has IR. Burn in, I dunno. Is it a huge hassle to break the TV in before you can use it the way you want? In my case, yes, I hate that I can't hook my XBOX 360 up RIGHT NOW and game away. all the programming I want to watch. I hate that I have to zoom, stretch, etc. Do I think it is going to be worth it in the long run? Definitely.


----------



## Buff-Daddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jason67* /forum/post/13450233
> 
> 
> and again... this time with a photo



What set do you have?


----------



## kucharsk

Not too bad, I suppose:


My wife and I watch the KTLA Morning Show religiously - that's three hours per day, five days per week.


I've since noticed I can make out "KTLA CW" in the right hand corner of my Panasonic TH-50PH6UK in a slightly darker black when the screen is displaying all black.


Note I don't see it when the screen is inverted or in white bar scroll mode, only when the screen is displaying all black.


No noticeable effect from watching many letterboxed movies over the years or some pillarboxed content. I suspect it took around three years of KTLA's white logo at three hours per day, five days per week to cause the effects I see.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buff-Daddy* /forum/post/13442902
> 
> 
> I recently bought the Panasonic TH-50PZ77U and began running the break-in DVD's. I changed all of my settings to 0 and have been running the DVD for 3 days. I was not getting very dark colors, so I went back into the menu and noticed that my settings did not save. I have been running in Vivid mode for 3 days. Has this damaged my set? If so, what has this done and is there any way to fix it? It is now set to Cinema with all settings at 0. Help!



You had full screen content on (i.e. the break in DVD)? If so, then nothing happened. If anything, you probably helped excelerate the break in process by having your settings higher.


----------



## tts42572

I agree.


I'm not an LCD fanboy.....I'm just somebody that has been trying to decide on an HDTV to get. I'm willing to spend about 3K....but if I do spend that much, I don't want to have to worry about all these things.


I keep debating LCD versus plasma....and I've got it narrowed to 3 sets. A Sony 52XBR4, Sammy 5271 and a Panny PZ800.


I just keep bouncing back and forth. Do I want an LCD and have to deal with ghosting, clouding, TBE, motion lag? On the postive side, I'd get a TV I could use for everything and wouldn't really need to constantly worry about how it's aging.


Or do I get the Panny plasma....which does have a better picture and does handle motion better? I'm just really concerned about all this IR and burn-in talk. And I really hate the idea of having to use gray sidebars all the time..or risk "uneven phosphor wear".


I just don't know what to think. You see half the people saying that burn-in and IR aren't problems.....and I also see a ton of posts about people having IR and burn-in problems.


I know plasma has the better picture quality....and being an avid sports watcher....I'm leaning toward plasma because I think LCD lag would bother me....but this burn-in/IR issue is holding me back.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bruin95* /forum/post/13443066
> 
> 
> After reading almost every post of this 4 page thread I'm really starting to wonder why anyone would buy a plasma. Seems like a MAJOR hassle. It seems like just about anything you watch on it can do harm to the set if you're not totally careful. I have a RP DLP now and wanted to get a plasma (mainly a Kuro or a Panny) by the end of the year. I watch alot of movies and still watch quite a bit of 4:3 programming. I can't stand to stretch it out. It looks like I'll be sticking with my RP. I have a 65" set now and want to stay at 60" or above, so LCD's are not an option. I can't see spending thousands on a set and having to constantly worry about letterboxing, scoreboards, station ID bugs, etc potentally ruining my investment. I just want to enjoy my set.


----------



## dmusgrave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tts42572* /forum/post/13459424
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> I'm not an LCD fanboy.....I'm just somebody that has been trying to decide on an HDTV to get. I'm willing to spend about 3K....but if I do spend that much, I don't want to have to worry about all these things.
> 
> 
> I keep debating LCD versus plasma....and I've got it narrowed to 3 sets. A Sony 52XBR4, Sammy 5271 and a Panny PZ800.
> 
> 
> I just keep bouncing back and forth. Do I want an LCD and have to deal with ghosting, clouding, TBE, motion lag? On the postive side, I'd get a TV I could use for everything and wouldn't really need to constantly worry about how it's aging.
> 
> 
> Or do I get the Panny plasma....which does have a better picture and does handle motion better? I'm just really concerned about all this IR and burn-in talk. And I really hate the idea of having to use gray sidebars all the time..or risk "uneven phosphor wear".
> 
> 
> I just don't know what to think. You see half the people saying that burn-in and IR aren't problems.....and I also see a ton of posts about people having IR and burn-in problems.
> 
> 
> I know plasma has the better picture quality....and being an avid sports watcher....I'm leaning toward plasma because I think LCD lag would bother me....but this burn-in/IR issue is holding me back.



I have all your fears and then some, took a plasma back after owning it for 5 days and having terrible IR issues.


I traded it in for... another identical plasma. No IR issues on this one thus far, I'm breaking it in gently.


The picture on the Panasonic was just too good to give up, even if the LCD MIGHT have been better for gaming and anything not full screen.


I'm gonna use it without fear after I get 100 hours on it (gaming, watching non full screen, etc.) as I can take it back within the first 30 days. Judging so far, I think I just got a bum panel the first time around and this one will likely be fine.


----------



## Watership

I see everyone talking about watching 4x3 images with grey sidebars, but what happens with widescreen movies who's aspect ratio is greater than 16x9. What about watching 1.85:1 or 2.39:1 aspects? Are the black bars above and below the screen also going to be grey? Will that also cause irregular wear?


----------



## tts42572

Yes...I think those bars above and below are also grey.


Not sure I'll like having those grey bars all over the place....and I'll probably be afraid to use black bars for fear of IR/burn-in or uneven phosphor wear.


I just feel like I'll be damned either way go...LCD will have lag/ghosting and chances are probably good that I'll get some sort of IR/Burn-in with plasma. Maybe not right away....but what about 3-4 years down the road?


I'm not somebody that is looking to buy the next best thing in another 3-4 years....I want something I can count on for 7-10 years.....like I could with the 27 inch CRT I bought 12 years ago that is still going strong.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Watership* /forum/post/13460671
> 
> 
> I see everyone talking about watching 4x3 images with grey sidebars, but what happens with widescreen movies who's aspect ratio is greater than 16x9. What about watching 1.85:1 or 2.39:1 aspects? Are the black bars above and below the screen also going to be grey? Will that also cause irregular wear?


----------



## hidef1000

It sounds like you guys are saying once you break in your plasma, that you are not able to watch movies or programs with black bars which I dont think is the case is it? I broke in my plasma and have been watching many blu ray movies that are not full screen and it seems to be fine. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## tank171




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hidef1000* /forum/post/13462047
> 
> 
> It sounds like you guys are saying once you break in your plasma, that you are not able to watch movies or programs with black bars which I dont think is the case is it? I broke in my plasma and have been watching many blu ray movies that are not full screen and it seems to be fine. Am I doing something wrong?



Quite the opposite. You should break it in before you watch anything with a stationary object. Before the break in is done you shouldn't risk it.


----------



## tts42572

So after the break in period of 100 hours, do most of you then watch with black bars? Or do you always keep them grey?


I could deal with it for 100 hours, but I don't want to have to use grey bars for as long as I have the TV.


----------



## WilliamR

The bars at the top and bottom are black. Bars on the sides are grey.


I watch widescreen movies (with bars on top and bottom) at least 3 times a week. No problems.


----------



## tvhunter

totally agree. I keep going back and forth between plasma and lcd and reading these IR posts definately scare me away from plasma. In fact, this is why I had ruled out plasma but someone had convinced me that burn-in is a thing of the past. I don't mind short term IR but long term is another matter. If you have to baby these things for their entire lives I am inclined to steer clear of them.


This is too bad since sports viewing is key and plasma is superior in that domain. I'm still hoping to be convinced by someone that this is a non-issue.


My thinking is that $3000 is too much if there is a risk of burn-in. That's a lot of cash for something that might "wear unevenly" after a few years of use. Maybe half that makes sense.


----------



## tts42572

I'm doing the same thing....I've got about 1 more month to "debate" and then I'm buying something. I gotta start enjoying HDTV and "moving forward".


That said, I still don't know which way I'll go. I'm leaning about 80% toward plasma and 20% toward a 120hz LCD.


I'm a heavy sports watcher....basically all we watch are weekend sports and primetime television....with some movies mixed in. And this will be our main TV that isn't likely to get gamed on very often.


I've been reading all the threads on burn-in, lcd vs plasma, etc.


A conclusion I came to is that there are alot of questions and worries about burn-in with plasma....but very few actual threads or cases where people have actually suffered burn-in.


IR seems to be fairly common....but generally seems to be temporary and if you mix up your viewing, it shouldn't be a major problem.


And the way I figure it, I probably won't be watching much SD content once I get the new TV. I'd probably be "careful" during the first 100 hours or so...and dial my settings back a little and try watching mostly full-screen content.


I do like the things LCD offers also.....but being a heavy sports watcher....and not a gamer....not sure LCD would be a great choice for me.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tvhunter* /forum/post/13472507
> 
> 
> totally agree. I keep going back and forth between plasma and lcd and reading these IR posts definately scare me away from plasma. In fact, this is why I had ruled out plasma but someone had convinced me that burn-in is a thing of the past. I don't mind short term IR but long term is another matter. If you have to baby these things for their entire lives I am inclined to steer clear of them.
> 
> 
> This is too bad since sports viewing is key and plasma is superior in that domain. I'm still hoping to be convinced by someone that this is a non-issue.
> 
> 
> My thinking is that $3000 is too much if there is a risk of burn-in. That's a lot of cash for something that might "wear unevenly" after a few years of use. Maybe half that makes sense.


----------



## kellehair

I don't think people on the fence should let this thread scare them away. I'm sure everyone posting here would admit they were being overly cautious. I purchased a 42" Panasonic plasma for my parents about a year ago. They watch lots of SD programs with bars, my brother plays a lot of 360 on it, etc. and there's no IR.


My feeling is that this one known issue with plasmas can easily be avoided with a little care. LCD issues like banding can depend more on luck. You're better off buying a plasma and being careful with it then buying an LCD and hoping for the best.


I just got a Panasonic TH42PZ700U myslef and I couldn't be happier. I'm currently running Starz HD all day and night for the first few days. I also played some MLB 08 The Show on PS3 for a few hours in between and didn't get any IR.


----------



## Matt Rushmore

While I will not let this thread scare me about my new 700U, I want to let everyone know that I appreciate all the info on here and the time everyone took to answer other people's posts.

This is a great site.


----------



## LarryInRI

I'll add my two cents. (There must be at least $1,000,000 in this account by now.)


I have two Panasonic plasmas. My tenth generation unit was bought almost a year ago and put through a 100 hour burn-in using the downloaded disk file. It now has about 2,500 hours on it -- yes, there is a physically disabled person living here. This year's eleventh generation TV was bought, sight unseen, a month ago. It was not burned-in other than lowering the default setting to my liking.


Neither TV has exhibited any IR. This is a fact. And no, I am not prone to seeing UFOs and little green men.










Larry


----------



## KevinHee

I went through a lot of IR threads and I am wondering whether anyone has previous experience on this:


My PZ85U is coming this Fri and I plan to run Discovery HD on it for about 10 hours on Fri night.


I want to watch a couple of soccer matches on Saturday afternoon - where they have the static score card & Fox logo on screen for consecutive 45 mins with no commercial break.


My qn is:

- Should I worry about IR / burn-in in this case?

- Does it help if I switch to Discovery HD channel for about 1 min every 15 mins?


Thanks for any replies!


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KevinHee* /forum/post/13484729
> 
> 
> I went through a lot of IR threads and I am wondering whether anyone has previous experience on this:
> 
> 
> My PZ85U is coming this Fri and I plan to run Discovery HD on it for about 10 hours on Fri night.
> 
> 
> I want to watch a couple of soccer matches on Saturday afternoon - where they have the static score card & Fox logo on screen for consecutive 45 mins with no commercial break.
> 
> 
> My qn is:
> 
> - Should I worry about IR / burn-in in this case?
> 
> - Does it help if I switch to Discovery HD channel for about 1 min every 15 mins?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any replies!



You may end up getting IR but it will probably go away. Switching to Discovery will not help as the phospors will not have time to wash away the color. How long is a couple soccer matches? Are they on the same channel? You can also try like the zoom function which would probably make the score strip actually not even be on the screen. Just a thought. I personnaly, would not worry, but I have the Pioneer that has the orbiter that makes these tv's very hard to get IR.


----------



## JCBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KevinHee* /forum/post/13484729
> 
> 
> I want to watch a couple of soccer matches on Saturday afternoon - where they have the static score card & Fox logo on screen for consecutive 45 mins with no commercial break.
> 
> 
> My qn is:
> 
> - Should I worry about IR / burn-in in this case?
> 
> - Does it help if I switch to Discovery HD channel for about 1 min every 15 mins?



Before my 85u reached 100 hours, we watched the NCAA Tourny in HD for several hours (maybe 4-5) and I didn't notice any IR (they have frequent commercial breaks, though). The only bad IR I've had so far was after watching a Women's BB Game on ESPN in standard definition Saturday night where the ESPN logo was up for about 2 1/2 hours straight. I could see a faint _ESPN_ after the game with the screen black. It took it around 2 hours to completely go away after watching full screen material. So, if you don't want any IR, you might follow William's advice, but I'm pretty confident any IR you receive will go away. Also, make sure your picture controls are set at 50 or below.


----------



## lab_rat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13484891
> 
> 
> You may end up getting IR but it will probably go away. Switching to Discovery will not help as the phospors will not have time to wash away the color. How long is a couple soccer matches? Are they on the same channel? You can also try like the zoom function which would probably make the score strip actually not even be on the screen. Just a thought. I personnaly, would not worry, but I have the Pioneer that has the orbiter that makes these tv's very hard to get IR.



Doesn't the Panny PX80 have an orbiter too? Or is the Pio one different/better in some way?


I really do want to go plasma but I sometimes game for hours at a time...I feel like if I go LCD I'll be wishing I had gone for better picture, but if I go plasma I feel like I'll be living in fear if I want to play COD4 or Rock Band for several hours....


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lab_rat* /forum/post/13487164
> 
> 
> Doesn't the Panny PX80 have an orbiter too? Or is the Pio one different/better in some way?
> 
> 
> I really do want to go plasma but I sometimes game for hours at a time...I feel like if I go LCD I'll be wishing I had gone for better picture, but if I go plasma I feel like I'll be living in fear if I want to play COD4 or Rock Band for several hours....



Sorry, I don't know much about the panny. I don't believe the panny has an orbiter that is continually running, shifting pixels around, etc. I could be wrong though.


----------



## LarryInRI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13487469
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't know much about the panny. I don't believe the panny has an orbiter that is continually running, shifting pixels around, etc. I could be wrong though.



William,


Most beliefs are wrong. The Panasonic px8xu series HAS an orbiter. AND it is user controllable.


Larry


----------



## lab_rat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LarryInRI* /forum/post/13487561
> 
> 
> William,
> 
> 
> Most beliefs are wrong. The Panasonic px8xu series HAS an orbiter. AND it is user controllable.
> 
> 
> Larry



I thought so, but people have been posting things like 'No IR yet, and I just played a full 15 minutes on my PS3'....sorry, but most gamers play for a _bit_ more than that.....


----------



## LarryInRI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lab_rat* /forum/post/13487575
> 
> 
> I thought so, but people have been posting things like 'No IR yet, and I just played a full 15 minutes on my PS3'....sorry, but most gamers play for a _bit_ more than that.....



I don't understand your post or why you are so angry at me. I said nothing about IR. I was only commenting on the Panasonic pixel orbiter.


Larry


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tts42572* /forum/post/13473624
> 
> 
> A conclusion I came to is that there are alot of questions and worries about burn-in with plasma....but very few actual threads or cases where people have actually suffered burn-in.



This is the truth. While arguing this topic in another post, somebody said "do a search and look at all the burn in threads, it must be a problem." Well I did do a search and it turns out that almost every single thread that came up was just a bunch of worrying and hand wringing about it, but no actual burn in, just a boat load of plasma owners chiming in to report that they haven't had any problems.


I broke my 50PX77U in by putting it in standard mode with the contrast at 0 for the first week. I gamed on it starting day 1, and watched movies and TV shows in all possible format. No break in DVDs. After a week I turned the settings up to those recommended by CNET and have continued to use the TV like a TV. Probably 2/3 of it's time is spent gaming, the remaining time mostly watching sports with the occasional movie thrown in. No IR, no burn in, no nothing. Just a sweet TV.


Call me a plasma fanboy if you want, but that's my real experience and it makes me think all this stuff is silly.


jeff


----------



## LarryInRI

I posted this in another thread on March 19. I have yet to receive a response.



> Quote:
> In the three or so years that I have been reading this plasma forum (2 lurking, 1 as member,) I do not recall one complaint about actual burn-in. However, I have read an enormous number of posts expressing a fear of burn-in .
> 
> 
> If anyone has actual proof of a case of burn-in that has been posted, please link me to it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry


----------



## KevinHee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13484891
> 
> 
> You may end up getting IR but it will probably go away. Switching to Discovery will not help as the phospors will not have time to wash away the color.
> 
> 
> How long is a couple soccer matches? Are they on the same channel? You can also try like the zoom function which would probably make the score strip actually not even be on the screen.



William, thanks for the helpful reply!


Each soccer match is 90 mins divided into two 45-min sessions with NO commercial break, which means the annoying scorecard & Fox Soccer logo will continuously display for 45 mins. I might watch two matches, so there will be four 45-min sessions with only 10-15 hours on the machine.


I just thought of another idea and wanna share with you guys: I am gonna watch the match in normal 4:3 mode with gray side bars / "Just" mode every 15 mins alternatively. =)


----------



## lab_rat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LarryInRI* /forum/post/13487812
> 
> 
> I don't understand your post or why you are so angry at me. I said nothing about IR. I was only commenting on the Panasonic pixel orbiter.
> 
> 
> Larry



No no Larry, I didn't intend hostility and it was definitely not directed towards you, I was just agreeing with your comment about the orbiter, then was making a segue comment saying that some posters tend to say they've had no issue with a particular make/model but their 'testing' isn't all that indepth.


I've just seen a lot of people posting things about not having any IR 'yet', but then go on to say they've tested a paused screen for 5 minutes, or have played a video game for 15 minutes....that's not much of a litmus test IMO, since the average gamer can play for several hours, that's all.


Do most manufacturers regard a case of IR (however rare) as something that is covered by warranty?


----------



## LarryInRI

I understand.


Larry


----------



## JCBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lab_rat* /forum/post/13491126
> 
> 
> Do most manufacturers regard a case of IR (however rare) as something that is covered by warranty?



IR is not covered, and is NOT permanent. I would guess all plasma's get IR to some extent at one time or another depending on the circumstance, but it usually goes away quickly. BURN-IN is permanent and appears to be rare w/o abuse.


----------



## pooper132

This is going to be the noobiest of all question but is it bad break in the TV and use it to watch movies. Of course full screen and such.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KevinHee* /forum/post/13488811
> 
> 
> William, thanks for the helpful reply!
> 
> 
> Each soccer match is 90 mins divided into two 45-min sessions with NO commercial break, which means the annoying scorecard & Fox Soccer logo will continuously display for 45 mins. I might watch two matches, so there will be four 45-min sessions with only 10-15 hours on the machine.
> 
> 
> I just thought of another idea and wanna share with you guys: I am gonna watch the match in normal 4:3 mode with gray side bars / "Just" mode every 15 mins alternatively. =)



I've played the same video game for 4 hours on my plasma, no IR. I've watched 2 hour long TV shows with a logo, no IR. I've checked with a all white screen, an input with no signal, all dark room, etc. etc. no IR. I push my set hard. I routinely play a video game for hours and hours (i.e. co-op or something) and no IR, ever.


Now, I have the Pioneer, so I don't know about the Panny, but I am VERY pleased with the Pioneer's ability to prevent IR. Very impressed.


I think if you are nervous, your idea of doing 4:3 content then watch it stretch or something and alternate it will help. Just check after a couple hours and see if you are developing problems, don't wait to the end. Then you will get a feel for how your set will function in those situations.


----------



## Rambone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmusgrave* /forum/post/13440473
> 
> 
> -Turn down the picture control (contrast) to 50% or less.
> 
> 
> -After the hundred-hour break-in period, during the next nine-hundred hours:
> 
> 
> --Continue to retain the picture setting at 50% or less.
> 
> 
> --Limit the use of static images (computer, video games, etc.) to less than
> 
> 10% of viewing time.



All of these points are false. Contrast doesn't need to be below 50% as long as the brightness isn't jacked up.


1000-hour break-in periods are for weak plasmas that have horrible IR prevention capabilities.


10% video games in the first 1000 hours??? That's bunk.



All you need to do is run full-screen material for the first 100 hours with subdued but not dull settings. Top-of-the-line plasmas are less of a worry than the 2nd tier Plasmas.


----------



## Darcy Hunter




> Quote:
> All of these points are false. Contrast doesn't need to be below 50% as long as the brightness isn't jacked up.



I always thought lowering contrast was the most important thing to do. In the CRT RPTV world, contrast refers to how hard you were driving the guns. Higher contrast shortened the lifespan of your set and also made it more susceptible to burn-in. Brightness just referred to the black level. Higher brightness settings would just make the picture appear washed out but not brighter. I'm pretty sure this still applies to plasma sets.


----------



## killswitch_19

I tried many different LCD's before getting my Panny PZ85U due to my PS3 and long gaming sessions. What nailed it for me was looking at the 58" Panasonic PZ700U that we have at work (Futureshop) that is in our speaker room playing Blu-Ray movies 12 hours a day everyday for almost a year! That things plays things with black bars top and bottom, and at the end of movies often gets left on the menu screen for HOURS until an associate notices or is not busy and starts up another movie. Shut the lights off and take a close look at the panel.... not a hint of IR or Burn-In whatsoever.


I'm using the break-in DVD for 100 hours with my 11th gen set just to be safe, but I'm pretty confident that as soon as I'm done that time, that all the HD movies and games I throw at it will not effect the television in any way. And all of that and much better PQ over LCD to boot. Don't worry, just enjoy your set.


----------



## Mach1Man

Can somebody please explain how the pixel orbiter on the 80U works. What is the difference between forced and automatic and what are the differences between times 1-4??


----------



## KevinHee

Just wanna report back that my 42PZ85U arrived on Fri. I watched 2 soccer matches, that are four 45-min sessions continuous displaying the Fox soccer logo & score card.


I set the Picture & Contrast low at 25 and 35. No IR, no burn-in at all.


Don't let the burn-in horror stories scare you (at least for Panasonic)! Plasma TV looks so much better than comparatively-priced LCDs.


----------



## bigbacon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> 
> Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_




the whitepaper was very enlighting. I guess I have some work cut out with my new plasma.


----------



## Jessiah1

I bought a 4280 Kuro a little more than a month ago. Best picture ever IMO. I have a PS2,PS3, and a 360 hooked up to it. I work 3rd shift and on the weekends I game all night. This last weekend I was playing Socom for more than 8hrs straight, I have not seen any sign of even IR as of yet except for one circumstance. I left a pause screen up for 45min one day that had a box with a bright white border about 1/8th of an inch thick. I had the Orbitor on(which I never turn off) and the oly thing it did was leave a inch thick box that you could see in a black screen( the orbitor moved the thin white border around and created a thicker border). The only thing I could really see was that it wasnt as black as the rest of the screen, sort of grey, and you had to look for it. The white border was exremely bright. This disapeared within minutes of watching regular programming. Under normal 8hr game sessions nothing has shown up yet. Now if that doesnt prove Im a dork and you dont have to worry about IR on a pioneer....well nothing else can. Good day.


----------



## Benlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kellehair* /forum/post/13478940
> 
> 
> I don't think people on the fence should let this thread scare them away. I'm sure everyone posting here would admit they were being overly cautious. I purchased a 42" Panasonic plasma for my parents about a year ago. They watch lots of SD programs with bars, my brother plays a lot of 360 on it, etc. and there's no IR.



I agree with this. I have a Samsung plasma which I am still in the 100 hrs break-in period. After 2 hrs non-stop viewing of a letterbox movie ( bar top and bottom ), I can see faintly 2 IR lines across the screen which go away completely when I run the signal swipe for 5-10 mins. Now, 50 hrs into my breakin period, no IR at all. So I agree plasma burn-in is nothing to worry, esp you get a recent model and break-in properly. However, there seems to be selected cases of users experiencing burn-in in this forum, usually when playing games.


----------



## JCBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigbacon* /forum/post/13517552
> 
> 
> the whitepaper was very enlighting. I guess I have some work cut out with my new plasma.



The white paper is over 3 years old now, and I know that at least the longevity of the screens has increased as well as improvement in the anti-IR technology. There is some good info in it, though.


I saw a Phillips display at a hotel this weekend that was either a plasma or LCD (it had no markings on the front and I couldn't get to the back of it) with uneven wear. You could see lines where the 4:3 bars where. There was a sign on the TV that said not to turn it off, so I'm assuming it had been running 24/7 for a while (looked to be an older plasma). To me, uneven wear is the biggest threat to our displays if no material is run in the black area that isn't used on 4:3 material. I would assume, though, that it would take a lot of time running nothing but 4:3 material to do this.


----------



## ChevyIIMan

This is all very interesting, Im not too worried I was going to go LCD but my wife just loves the picture on the Samsung PN50A450 we saw the other day. I watch everythign in wide mode as I cant stand black bars but will heed the advice of everyone. Im also a stickler for turn off the TV's so leaving it on accidently never seems to be an issue. Also our HD DVR has a burn in feature that can be set as low as 2min essentially killing the feed to the TV until you want to resume play, awesome for this type of Display I can onyl imagine.

I will grab the break in DVD and possibly run it a few hours each night for the first few weeks also to help with the uneven wear if any that may be present


. Although we are liking the Toshiba 37" LCD we put in the bedroom lol...


----------



## dobyblue




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> 
> Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_



Yet Panasonic suggest doing during the first 100 hours exactly what the break-in DVD accomplishes.


----------



## Dave A.

I've read magazines and posts on this site that say instances of IR pretty much stop after you get a few hundred hours on a plasma. I have about 2000 hours on my Pioneer 4270 now and I still get IR after only about 30 minutes of gaming. And that's with the set in game mode. I played for about 90 minutes this weekend and the HUD and ammo counts faded away after 20 minutes of regular TV viewing but it makes me nervous. Especially when I see there are people that say they game for hours and never see a hint of IR. What gives? Is this normal or is my set just more susceptible to IR than other Pioneers?


----------



## bigbacon

well, I hope using the burn in dvd will help break my new LG plasma from having a lot of IR.


I'm almost not happy about this fact with plasmas. This is my first one after coming from LCDs. I never had problems with the LCDs.


I also then see all this stuff about the "green flicker" or whatever. I have yet to try anything fast paced but I have to worry about this now. I know LCDs have thr ghosting and it depends on the TV and the person to how much there is. I did not notice too much of it on my 32in LCD when using the PC to play games.


Maybe it's buyers remorse but I don't want to know what will happen if I attempt to retutn the thing because I can see these issues.


----------



## cllisanti

I just got my 50PZ85U yesterday. I got it all hooked and I am in the Break In process. I have turned off all the special picture adjusters (Color Management, etc). I turned on the Pixel Orbiter to 4. Turned the Picture, Brightness, etc to under 50 (I belive around 40).


The problem that I had been having is creating a copy of the Break In CD/DVD. I was having no luck with any of the tools. In the end I created 7 images, red, black, gray, light gray, dark gray, green and blue. They are all 1920 X 1080. I put them onto an SD card and plugged that into the back of the set. I then started a slide show, with a 10 second pause on each image. I can then leave this running for as long as I want. It just keeps repeating.


First, does this sound like it will do the Break In as needed? Second, for those with an SD slot, and if this is a good idea, I will be glad to share the images.


Thanks.


----------



## joeyc1123

i would def appreciate it if you gave it to me


----------



## rainmangk

I just bought my 5084 on sunday and have put about 80 hrs on it so far (cartoon network overnight). i was hoping to get a bit of clarification as far as break in time and settings go. I have my brightness, contrast, and color all set to about 48 and sharpness set to 10. Are these settings ok? and is the break-in period 100 hrs? 200 hrs? 250? just hearing a lot of conflicting information.


After saying that, I just want to turn my picture settings up to where I'd like them asap so i can play some COD4. Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## joeyc1123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rainmangk* /forum/post/13561585
> 
> 
> I just bought my 5084 on sunday and have put about 80 hrs on it so far (cartoon network overnight). i was hoping to get a bit of clarification as far as break in time and settings go. I have my brightness, contrast, and color all set to about 48 and sharpness set to 10. Are these settings ok? and is the break-in period 100 hrs? 200 hrs? 250? just hearing a lot of conflicting information.
> 
> 
> After saying that, I just want to turn my picture settings up to where I'd like them asap so i can play some COD4. Thanks for the help guys.



the more you wait, the better it will be but i calibrated my 4264 at 100 hours, then at 250. i play games on mine but i just activate the scrolling effect after i'm done and set the sleep timer for 120minutes just as a precaution


----------



## handler337

I just bought a Panny 42PX80 and have been watching for a few hours/day. Last night, I fell asleep while watching a homemade DVD, and I woke up approximately three hours later with the image fixed on the menu screen










To my alarm, the shadow/image of the menu can be seen whenever a black screen is viewed. However, upon confirmation using Video Essentials, there is absolutely no IR on a solid white, red, green, or blue background?


I have been playing Pixar's Cars for about 12 hours straight, and no improvement has been realized. Has anyone heard of this? What kind of damage did I do to my new set?


Thanks,


Ryan


----------



## David Susilo

all this talk makes me think that plasma IR is far worse than CRT RPTV. Is this correct or I've misconstrued everything written here? Most of my favourite movies (be it on DVD, HD DVD or BD) are in 2.35:1 ratio.


----------



## affirm

I have about a 1 inch vertical black bar on the right side of my plasma. We don't watch programs with side bars or wide screen DVD's. You can't see the bar when you are watching TV. I just notice it when the TV is off. I was wondering what I can do to fix it. Is this burn it?


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *affirm* /forum/post/13577216
> 
> 
> I have about a 1 inch vertical black bar on the right side of my plasma. We don't watch programs with side bars or wide screen DVD's. You can't see the bar when you are watching TV. I just notice it when the TV is off. I was wondering what I can do to fix it. Is this burn it?



What brand of set do you own? I've now 250 hours on my Pioneer 5080 and have not a hint of I/R or burn-in. What are you doing to your set?


----------



## bob13bob

newbie here. I bought my first tv ever, it being a TH-42PX80U 42" panasonic plasma 720p.


I popped in this break-in disk and saw black bars. I use zoom mode to fill up the screen, this is right, right?

I popped in batman begins and saw black bars. This is typical as a bunch of movies have slightly different aspect ratios? I should be watching everything in zoom mode for the first 100-200 hours, than after that can watch regular mode ok?

Should I turn orbital up to 4?


----------



## brosborough

I am not suffering from the problem and I hope to keep it that way. I have done quite a few searches but could not find exactly what i was looking for so I am just going to ask.


I purchased a new Pioneer Kuro 50" plasma TV. This being my first HD capable TV I have never really paid attention to any HD channels my cable offers or even the normal channels.


Now that I have it, I have been watching them all and what I see on a numerous amount of channels are the TV's own logo. On Encore Action, I see E Action in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. HD TNT, has HD TNT in the bottom right hand corner. I probably have 30 channels with this. All of them are White in lettering, usually it is the outline of the word, so it does change colors as pictures pass through it but even when it changes to whatever is in the background, you can still always read it.


I hope I explained that correctly so you understand what I am seeing. My question now is will this cause the image burn or retention that I heard about over the years. I know TV's are much better in terms of this but I was just surprised at how many channels I see this kind of thing on and it has me worried. Do I need to be worried?


----------



## russwong

In the initial stages (first 100 to 500 hours), the recommendation is to be a little extra cautious. Take your settings out of torch mode. If it's a transparent logo, it's usually not a problem, unless you are going to watch many many hours of only that.


But in all honestly, enjoy your display, don't worry about it and don't go looking for problems.


Russ


----------



## dmusgrave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bob13bob* /forum/post/13585954
> 
> 
> newbie here. I bought my first tv ever, it being a TH-42PX80U 42" panasonic plasma 720p.
> 
> 
> I popped in this break-in disk and saw black bars. I use zoom mode to fill up the screen, this is right, right?
> 
> I popped in batman begins and saw black bars. This is typical as a bunch of movies have slightly different aspect ratios? I should be watching everything in zoom mode for the first 100-200 hours, than after that can watch regular mode ok?
> 
> Should I turn orbital up to 4?



If it's the break in DVD popular here it should fill the screen when set to "full." There should be no black bars.


I would watch everything zoomed to full screen and avoid static images for at least the first 100 hours or so, and limit them for the first 200. That's what I'm doing.


I have orbit set to 1, as that is apparently the most aggressive setting.


----------



## ozzzie3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave A.* /forum/post/13533166
> 
> 
> I've read magazines and posts on this site that say instances of IR pretty much stop after you get a few hundred hours on a plasma. I have about 2000 hours on my Pioneer 4270 now and I still get IR after only about 30 minutes of gaming. And that's with the set in game mode. I played for about 90 minutes this weekend and the HUD and ammo counts faded away after 20 minutes of regular TV viewing but it makes me nervous. Especially when I see there are people that say they game for hours and never see a hint of IR. What gives? Is this normal or is my set just more susceptible to IR than other Pioneers?




Dave A

I'm in the same boat. I've had the 4270 for almost a year and still get IR after playing COD4. I guess you just have to keep an eye on it.


----------



## xraysight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bob13bob* /forum/post/13585954
> 
> 
> newbie here. I bought my first tv ever, it being a TH-42PX80U 42" panasonic plasma 720p.
> 
> 
> I popped in this break-in disk and saw black bars. I use zoom mode to fill up the screen, this is right, right?
> 
> I popped in batman begins and saw black bars. This is typical as a bunch of movies have slightly different aspect ratios? I should be watching everything in zoom mode for the first 100-200 hours, than after that can watch regular mode ok?
> 
> Should I turn orbital up to 4?



On the anti-IR feature, Pixel Orbiter, 1 is most aggressive setting to reduce IR. The numbers, 1-4, refer to minutes, in how long between when pixels are shifted on screen. i.e. shiftting pixels every 1 minute, rather than every 4 minutes, will reduce chance of IR the most.


The break-in dvd was generated in 16:9 aspect, so there should be no letterboxing. Check and make sure your dvd player is set to output signal to 16:9 tv, rather than 4:3. All dvd players should have this adjustment in the menu.


----------



## HDPeeT

Yes, listen to Russ, he is wise. As a general rule, if you've never had problems with image retention on the older tubes you shouldn't worry about it on plasmas.


----------



## brosborough

Thanks


----------



## 3Seconds

I really hope someone can give me some advice or help here.


I have a Sammy 5054.


I have taken very good care of it since hour 1. Used Zippy's break-in settings for 300. After that have been using EGHILLs setttings.


Never any problems. IR was very minimal w/ any static images.


Now with about 800-900 hours on my TV IR is becoming a problem. Certain static images....like a score banner during a game becomes retained EXTREMELY quick. After watching one inning of a baseball game on ESPN the score thing is retained or just last night watching the NCAA championship on CBS, by the first commercial. (no more than 10 mins) the score banner is retained.


Now it does fade out w/ in about 5 mins & there in no 'burn in' thank goodness.


But why would IR be getting worse as the TV gets past the 800 hour mark? I do not use any type of torch settings (as stated still using EG's)


What can I do, if anything to try & help this?


Also what should my pixel shift settings be to best help w/ the IR?


P.S. I do zero gaming on the set.


----------



## David Susilo

all this talk makes me think that plasma IR is far worse than CRT RPTV. Is this correct or I've misconstrued everything written here? Most of my favourite movies (be it on DVD, HD DVD or BD) are in 2.35:1 ratio.


----------



## xrox

When I get my new plasma this summer/fall I will be posting some test shots for IR sensitivity (I don’t know why more people have not done this?)


Based on my opinion on IR/Burn-in causes I will not be doing a long break in period. Here is what I’ll be doing.


1 – Run a full field white screen for a few hours to normalize the discharge probability, voltage, and delay of all cells.


2 – Test for IR sensitivity using a test pattern and post photos (full black , full white) using long and short exposure times.


Classical IR will show up as a dark spot on a full white field and a bright spot on a full dark field.

Note that 2 types of IR are possible.


1 - Residual wall charge (short lived - minutes)


2 - MgO sputtering (persistent, can be mistaken for burn-in)


----------



## airhostess

Well I have the 5044, two of them in fact, basically your tv without the glare screen and side fluff.

I didn’t follow zippybongs advice (a great work of fiction) and I had my sets isf calibrated.


Both my tv’s are running nearly constantly, and one has the weather channel going 50% of its on-time.


The only time I encounter hard IR is when I game for hours on end, but it diminishes in less than 30min of full screen watching. I do not have station DOG’s or residual weather channel info retained more than 5min (maybe less).

My friends are watching the NHL Playoffs at my place and nope, no IR when I check between periods with the scrolling grey/white wash.


Pixel shift is a bit of a gimmick in my experience, I’m pretty sure it only shifts on-screen displays, (Mute icon) not the tv actual image, so it wont help shifting station DOG’s, logos, tickers, bars etc. I don’t even use mine.


I can only advise you reign in the settings, specifically contrast, and see if that helps diminish the IR longevity, although your IR seems pretty typical and not extraordinary. Or you’ll have to zoom1 / zoom2 and lose a bit of the screen while you watch.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *3Seconds* /forum/post/13591698
> 
> 
> I really hope someone can give me some advice or help here.
> 
> 
> I have a Sammy 5054.
> 
> 
> I have taken very good care of it since hour 1. Used Zippy's break-in settings for 300. After that have been using EGHILLs setttings.
> 
> 
> Never any problems. IR was very minimal w/ any static images.
> 
> 
> Now with about 800-900 hours on my TV IR is becoming a problem. Certain static images....like a score banner during a game becomes retained EXTREMELY quick. After watching one inning of a baseball game on ESPN the score thing is retained or just last night watching the NCAA championship on CBS, by the first commercial. (no more than 10 mins) the score banner is retained.
> 
> 
> Now it does fade out w/ in about 5 mins & there in no 'burn in' thank goodness.
> 
> 
> But why would IR be getting worse as the TV gets past the 800 hour mark? I do not use any type of torch settings (as stated still using EG's)
> 
> 
> What can I do, if anything to try & help this?
> 
> 
> Also what should my pixel shift settings be to best help w/ the IR?
> 
> 
> P.S. I do zero gaming on the set.


----------



## transam99

I"ve been selling plasmas for 10 yrs. We have left dvd menus on for 3hrs sometimes on the pioneers and there is some IR but goes away after wacthing hd in full screen in 10 min. I know the cheaper plasmas can burn in or i have IR alot sooner. I think the LG panels come with a white wash screen in the menu or used to. Lcds are crap and good plasma is the sh**.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *transam99* /forum/post/13601338
> 
> 
> Lcds are crap and good plasma is the sh**.



when you eloquently put it like that, I just HAVE to get a plasma right now!


----------



## ObiKenobi

So to placate the hand wringers and counterattack the LCD trolls I'll repeat a story here that I heard either on another thread or in a plasma related article about IR and burn-in. Apparently a couple of the prominent plasma makers (Panasonic, Pioneer and Samsung I believe) had a static image being shown on some plasmas for 36 hours straight. Afterwards there was obvious some IR which after playing a loop of normal full screen content for some hours was completely washed away.


So the moral of the story is, if IR from a 36 hour static image can be completely washed away you won't have to worry about hours of gaming and watching letterboxed movies. You'd have be doing some major abuse to cause actual burn-in to your screen. And don't listen to the LCD trolls trying to plant seeds of doubt in your mind, they're just jealous cause of their horrid motion blur and bad black levels and color reproduction.


----------



## David Susilo

I tend to agree to the above statement. I never own a plasma before, however, during the CRT days, oftentimes people are complaining about burn-in in CRT RPTV. Funny thing is that although most of my favourite movies are in 2.35:1 ratio, even after 6 years of viewing, I don't get any burn in on my CRT RPTV.


----------



## ObiKenobi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LarryInRI* /forum/post/13488617
> 
> 
> I posted this in another thread on March 19. I have yet to receive a response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> In the three or so years that I have been reading this plasma forum (2 lurking, 1 as member,) I do not recall one complaint about actual burn-in. However, I have read an enormous number of posts expressing a fear of burn-in .
> 
> 
> If anyone has actual proof of a case of burn-in that has been posted, please link me to it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry
Click to expand...


I second this. I'd love to see someone actually provide a real case of burn-in that's happened within the last few generation of plasmas. Otherwise the people who keep trying to spread that bs either need to shut up.


----------



## kaiservt

Okay...I know this has probably been talked about to the point of being annoying...Burn-in. I have been looking at high-def sets for a while and have been focused on the Sony XBR4 (clearly an LCD). But the other day I checked out the Pioneer Kuro and I thought it was awesome, mainly I liked how plasma handles motion. I know there is a lot of talk about burn-in. How "real" an issue is this? Should I be worried? Is there anything I should watch out for?


-Kaiser


----------



## sunarf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaiservt* /forum/post/13613533
> 
> 
> Okay...I know this has probably been talked about to the point of being annoying...Burn-in. I have been looking at high-def sets for a while and have been focused on the Sony XBR4 (clearly an LCD). But the other day I checked out the Pioneer Kuro and I thought it was awesome, mainly I liked how plasma handles motion. I know there is a lot of talk about burn-in. How "real" an issue is this? Should I be worried? Is there anything I should watch out for?
> 
> 
> -Kaiser



Yes....it has been talked about PAST the point of being annoying.


Do some searching!!! Read the OTHER "burn-in" threads....there are PLENTY of them!!!


When are these "burn-in" threads going to end?


----------



## kaiservt

Look....I understand that I am bring something up again. But I don't think there is a need to be fired up about it. I am a guy asking an honest question. That's all. My respectfully submitted question still stands.


----------



## s2mikey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaiservt* /forum/post/13613660
> 
> 
> Look....I understand that I am bring something up again. But I don't think there is a need to be fired up about it. I am a guy asking an honest question. That's all. My respectfully submitted question still stands.



No problem.... heres the deal: Burn-in used to be much more of an issue that it is today. Actually, unless someone completely abuses the TV there is really no chance of burn-in at all. When I say abuse, I mean like video gaming for days on end with long pauses and no breaks at all. Or maybe using the set as a stock ticker monitor for weeks and weeks. You get the point..... for 99% of the viewing population a plasma will never burn-in. Period.


Burn-in is an LCD-supporter issue because LCD guys KNOW that plasma hands them their arse in almost every picture quality category so they need something to bring down plasma.


Get the Pioneer.... its an awesome set and burn-in wont be an issue!


----------



## kaiservt

A quick follow up question. Would you go for the Pioneer 50 inch 1080p or go for a similar (less expensive) Panasonic model?


----------



## VidPro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaiservt* /forum/post/13613729
> 
> 
> A quick follow up question. Would you go for the Pioneer 50 inch 1080p or go for a similar (less expensive) Panasonic model?



Go with the one that looks best to you and that you can afford. Then go by a Pioneer because if you read the threads here about how good Pioneer looks you're gonna feel really inadequate.


----------



## kaiservt

any more input? the more the better. Thanks!


----------



## YMark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunarf* /forum/post/13613640
> 
> 
> Yes....it has been talked about PAST the point of being annoying.
> 
> 
> Do some searching!!! Read the OTHER "burn-in" threads....there are PLENTY of them!!!
> 
> 
> When are these "burn-in" threads going to end?



+ 1. Why do people that ask the same annoying questions think they'll get different answers than the other 100 people that ask the SAME QUESTION?


----------



## Sandman209

Hey, I understand where you're coming from because I have the same hesitation about "image retention" ("burn in" is when the image never goes away, which sounds impossible using the plasma technology out now).


Check out this thread which covers image retention.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017839 


Just to let you know, I am over my worries about plasmas. I think that whatever problems you still hear about regarding plasma tv's are from people who are hyper-paranoid about this or are unusual situations with very old plasma sets. If you want the best picture quality for sports, movies,and general hdtv watching and also plan on watching in a dark room, plasma would be a better choice....in my opinion.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sunarf* /forum/post/13613640
> 
> 
> Yes....it has been talked about PAST the point of being annoying.
> 
> 
> Do some searching!!! Read the OTHER "burn-in" threads....there are PLENTY of them!!!
> 
> 
> When are these "burn-in" threads going to end?



Was there a magic force that made you click on the thread


----------



## ObiKenobi

To help quell fears I will quote myself from the stickied Burn-in thread:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ObiKenobi* /forum/post/13601841
> 
> 
> So to placate the hand wringers and counterattack the LCD trolls I'll repeat a story here that I heard either on another thread or in a plasma related article about IR and burn-in. Apparently a couple of the prominent plasma makers (Panasonic, Pioneer and Samsung I believe) had a static image being shown on some plasmas for 36 hours straight. Afterwards there was obvious some IR which after playing a loop of normal full screen content for some hours was completely washed away.
> 
> 
> So the moral of the story is, if IR from a 36 hour static image can be completely washed away you won't have to worry about hours of gaming and watching letterboxed movies. You'd have be doing some major abuse to cause actual burn-in to your screen.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YMark* /forum/post/13614645
> 
> 
> + 1. Why do people that ask the same annoying questions think they'll get different answers than the other 100 people that ask the SAME QUESTION?



Is burn-in a real issue? Is it something I should be concerned about?


----------



## YMark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burnsalkire* /forum/post/13615100
> 
> 
> Is burn-in a real issue? Is it something I should be concerned about?



Not sure if it is a concern. I know it used to be an issue, but I'm not sure if it still is. You might want to start a new thread about it and see what others think.


----------



## etw926




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YMark* /forum/post/13616488
> 
> 
> You might want to start a new thread about it and see what others think.



Great idea.


----------



## speedracer_rt/10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burnsalkire* /forum/post/13615100
> 
> 
> Is burn-in a real issue? Is it something I should be concerned about?



Oh yes, definitely an issue to worry about. If you pause a DVD to get up and go take a leak, game over. That image will be there for the life of your plasma. You should buy an LCD to avoid all possiple negative issues.


----------



## HDPeeT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedracer_rt/10* /forum/post/13616936
> 
> 
> Oh yes, definitely an issue to worry about. If you pause a DVD to get up and go take a leak, game over. That image will be there for the life of your plasma. You should buy an LCD to avoid all possiple negative issues.



LOL..........You know what we do with LCD trolls in these here parts don't ya?










PS,

I know you're just kidding.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedracer_rt/10* /forum/post/13616936
> 
> 
> Oh yes, definitely an issue to worry about. If you pause a DVD to get up and go take a leak, game over. That image will be there for the life of your plasma. You should buy an LCD to avoid all possiple negative issues.



Gag me with spoon







I'd have a bed pan next to my Lazy-Boy recliner before I'd buy an LCD


----------



## Mitmonk

This is a REALLY stupid question, but I have to ask just to be certain. Instead of using the break in DVD, I am simply leaving my plasma on an SD TV station set to "zoom" to avoid static letter box and TV logo images. Does it matter that the channel is SD and not HD? Sorry for the REALLY stupid question, but I see recommendations for viewing HD channels and not SD for break in, and I am new to plasmas


----------



## ObiKenobi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mitmonk* /forum/post/13618666
> 
> 
> This is a REALLY stupid question, but I have to ask just to be certain. Instead of using the break in DVD, I am simply leaving my plasma on an SD TV station set to "zoom" to avoid static letter box and TV logo images. Does it matter that the channel is SD and not HD? Sorry for the REALLY stupid question, but I see recommendations for viewing HD channels and not SD for break in, and I am new to plasmas



The resolution of the content you watch doesn't matter, you just want to make sure to have something that fills the entire screen.


----------



## Mach1Man

Nope. So long as you have all the square inches of the display covered makes no difference.


----------



## Mitmonk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ObiKenobi* /forum/post/13618776
> 
> 
> The resolution of the content you watch doesn't matter, you just want to make sure to have something that fills the entire screen.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mach1Man* /forum/post/13618787
> 
> 
> Nope. So long as you have all the square inches of the display covered makes no difference.



Thanks for helping me out with my ignorance! I didn't think resolution mattered but wanted to be certain. Are there any benefits using the break-in DVD versus leaving the TV on a particular station without any static images? Do the uniform images looped in the break-in have an advantage during the first 100 hours as opposed to the method I am using? Thanks again!


----------



## jarac




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mitmonk* /forum/post/13618863
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping me out with my ignorance! I didn't think resolution mattered but wanted to be certain. Are there any benefits using the break-in DVD versus leaving the TV on a particular station without any static images? Do the uniform images looped in the break-in have an advantage during the first 100 hours as opposed to the method I am using? Thanks again!



I just got a 4280 and am doing both Burin-in DVD for 2 -3 hours (1st time and going forward), but am also watching EVERYTHING with the IMAGE fully covering the screen.


----------



## Jessiah1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaiservt* /forum/post/13613729
> 
> 
> A quick follow up question. Would you go for the Pioneer 50 inch 1080p or go for a similar (less expensive) Panasonic model?



Hey, fellow Vermonter! Im in Norwich Vt. I have a Kuro 4280 that I bought about 2 months ago. I will give you the skinny: First Burn In : I was more carefull the first 200 hrs(no break in dvd) But I still played games excessivly! Make sure the Orbitor is on and dont leave a paused screen up longer than 30 min. and your golden. I play Socom Navy seals with 2-3 huds up and have put in several 8hr + sessions with no issues. 2nd issue: 50 or 42 ? Well your gonna have to track a 42 down, they are not at Best buy any longer and are fading from online stores fast. I would have bought the 50 if money was not an issue. The 42 is great for games but Blu rays with bars of course look smaller as they do not fill the screen. So a 50 would be nice for a bigger movie picture but I am just nit picking, the 42 is quite nice! PS: To the people who are hating on this thread: Hello! Its a "BURN IN" thread!! If your tired of readingabout burn in dont visit the dam thread genius!!!!!


----------



## rkish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/13487813
> 
> 
> This is the truth. While arguing this topic in another post, somebody said "do a search and look at all the burn in threads, it must be a problem." Well I did do a search and it turns out that almost every single thread that came up was just a bunch of worrying and hand wringing about it, but no actual burn in, just a boat load of plasma owners chiming in to report that they haven't had any problems.
> 
> 
> I broke my 50PX77U in by putting it in standard mode with the contrast at 0 for the first week. I gamed on it starting day 1, and watched movies and TV shows in all possible format. No break in DVDs. After a week I turned the settings up to those recommended by CNET and have continued to use the TV like a TV. Probably 2/3 of it's time is spent gaming, the remaining time mostly watching sports with the occasional movie thrown in. No IR, no burn in, no nothing. Just a sweet TV.
> 
> 
> Call me a plasma fanboy if you want, but that's my real experience and it makes me think all this stuff is silly.
> 
> 
> jeff



I would agree for the most part. Someone has told me that Panasonic says to break-in the newer plasmas (I have a 50" 85u) using Standard and I broke it in using Cinema, but kept levels at 50 or lower. Other than one stuck pixel (it bounce back a minute later), I've had no problems. I've been a good boy as far as black bars and gaming...at least until I'm closer to 1000 hours (yes...I'm anal). But I don't see any differnce between breaking in a plasma in Standard over Cimema


My only issue has been with the Smithsonian HD channel..they have this very solid, white logo and it left IR after watching an hour program. After running the break-in DVD for 30 minutes or so, it went away. I wish these idiots would go to a transparent logo, like all the other HD channels


----------



## rkish

Panasonic Plasma owners...what is the difference between using the pixel orbiter on "automatic" and "force" at level 4? I would assume that automatic would do the best job?


Thanks


----------



## Nosirrom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rkish* /forum/post/13634684
> 
> 
> Panasonic Plasma owners...what is the difference between using the pixel orbiter on "automatic" and "force" at level 4? I would assume that automatic would do the best job?
> 
> 
> Thanks



From what i've read in the PX80 owners thread, the general idea is that "Force 1" is the best. This is from people contacting Panasonic directly... we still don't know what it actually "means".


----------



## rkish

Well...just when I thought I was out of the woods.


After more than 200 hours, I noticed a "stuck pixel" that hasn't gone back to normal after about 6 hours of running the break-in DVD. Can it take a while for a stuck pixel to remedy itself? It seems to either be either red or black, as it hides when these colors come up on the break-in DVD. It's NOT grey, as I've been told dead pixels look like.


Any feel-good insight for me










Thanks!


----------



## David Susilo

JScreenFix (a free application) usually help with stuck pixel (NOT dead pixel). YMMV, but in most cases it works.


----------



## Fit2Run

I just downloaded the burned the break in dvd. I tried playing it on my computer and it plays but nothing shows up on the screen except black.


Will my tv Pioneer 5010 show the dvd playing. I assume there should be more then just BLACK. Or is that what the break in dvd is.


Another thing I notice it does not loop. It stops after chapter 16.


Please advise.


Thanks


----------



## dmcbrady

Hey everyone. I've been reading the forums trying to find an answer to my question so I might as well go the direct route. I bought my Panasonic plasma TH-42PX60U back in June of 06. I knew very little about the technology back then and was pretty ignorant and left the TV on the current settings. Well, I seem to be getting some image retention now when I play a game for even 30 minutes. My question is would it be a good idea to run a break-in dvd for 100 hours or so then turn the video settings to its optimal settings from the THX optimizer? Or should I just turn the picture setting real low for a while and skip the break in dvd because it is too little too late. None of the images stay there forever but they do get annoying.


----------



## Mitmonk

Hi everyone! After adjusting picture settings while watching movies and playing video games, I noticed I can still see the outline of the menu options when my PZ85 is displaying an all black background (for instance, selecting an output such as HDMI 3 with no device hooked into it). I have had the TV on a regular channel with no static images for about an hour now but can still somewhat make out the outline of words such as "sharpness, brightness, save changes" etc. when I switch back to an all black and am sitting very close to the TV. Should I be concerned about this? Would it be necessary to leave the TV on until this fades?


The problem isn't noticeable when the TV is displaying an image, which makes me wonder if it is a problem at all. Any help is greatly appreciated, since I am new to plasmas I am concerned turning the TV off before the outline fades could be harmful, but am sure if I should be. Thanks!


----------



## Veri7as

quick question...


...what did everyone use to break in their tvs?


is the break in dvd with the full screen colors the best way?...or can you use tv and movies?...also is it better to use a high def signal when doing this? and how long should the tv be left on at one time...like 5 hour intervals or more like all day?


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Veri7as* /forum/post/13652636
> 
> 
> quick question...
> 
> 
> ...what did everyone use to break in their tvs?
> 
> 
> is the break in dvd with the full screen colors the best way?...or can you use tv and movies?...also is it better to use a high def signal when doing this? and how long should the tv be left on at one time...like 5 hour intervals or more like all day?



For the first 200 hours I displayed 95% full screen high def programming and full screen dvd's. No horizontal or vertical black bars. I did watch a small amount of SD programming with gray vertical bars. My logic was, if I'm going to put hours on the set and burn the electricity, I might as well get some enjoyment out of it. Most folk say a 100 break in should be performed but, I was so pleased with the new PQ that it made the first 200 hours fly by.

I ran my Pioneer up to 10 hours a day.


----------



## michaelv

I just realize that i have 400 hours on Pioneer 6010FD . I occasionally watch dvd with full screen (black bars on top and bottom). Mostly, i am in zoom mode...I guess it should be ok to go back to normal mode. By the way, User mode with dot-to-dot is awesome on regular DVD.


cheers.


----------



## mbnzgrl

I posted this below on the normal threads, but I thought I would post here too. Thanks for any responses.


Hi guys,


I just ordered my 42PZ85U and want to get things prepared for it. Here's my questions:


1) I have a 6 year old DVD player (going to upgrade in time), but is it ok for me to use this old player to run the break-in DVD?


2) And the solid colors running on the break-in DVD should help me to see dead pixels, correct? Or is there another way to find out?


3) Also, can I use this player for the DVE disk?


4) Until I decide on upconvert DVD player or blu-ray, what kind of connections do I need to optimize PQ for watching SD DVDs? My old DVD player is a non-progressive scan, has video and S component.


Btw, thanks for this forum and all on it for helping me get this far!


----------



## Veri7as

sorry but i'm having trouble burning the break in disc...


what files did you burn and what did you do in nero to burn them to a dvd-r?


thanks for the help!


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbnzgrl* /forum/post/13655079
> 
> 
> I posted this below on the normal threads, but I thought I would post here too. Thanks for any responses.
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I just ordered my 42PZ85U and want to get things prepared for it. Here's my questions:
> 
> 
> 1) I have a 6 year old DVD player (going to upgrade in time), but is it ok for me to use this old player to run the break-in DVD?
> 
> 
> 2) And the solid colors running on the break-in DVD should help me to see dead pixels, correct? Or is there another way to find out?
> 
> 
> 3) Also, can I use this player for the DVE disk?
> 
> 
> 4) Until I decide on upconvert DVD player or blu-ray, what kind of connections do I need to optimize PQ for watching SD DVDs? My old DVD player is a non-progressive scan, has video and S component.
> 
> 
> Btw, thanks for this forum and all on it for helping me get this far!



1. yes

2. yes - no

3. yes

4. from best to worst: component -> S -> composite (the yellow thingie)


----------



## igreg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/12403951
> 
> 
> Its not that any particular TV needs the break in DVD, but if you are using a Plasma TV its a good idea to break it in first. The plasma's cells need some time to "break in" and it helps them to prevent IR because they have been used for awhile and not as prone to IR.
> 
> 
> How are you checking for IR? You need to turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it, stand close to the TV and have no lights on, that is the best way to see any IR. Its not normal viewing but it will help.




I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.


----------



## cheaptimes

I have a simple question and I know it has been asked many times but i'll be specific to my situation. I play xbox 360 and ps3 games and when I find a game I like I will only play that game until I am finished with it for example with blue dragon for the 360 I clocked about 200 hours over a period of 4 months playing anywhere from 2-5 hours a day 4-7 days a week and on my lcd this was about 80-90% of the tv's use. My question is if I switch the input on my panny 50px80u to a full screen display every hour or so when I go outside to have a smoke will this prevent any long term problems or is the fact that I am displaying the same static image for 200-300 hours regardless of giving it a 10 min break every hour of gaming.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *igreg* /forum/post/13661879
> 
> 
> I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.




The IR will be lighter coloured black.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *igreg* /forum/post/13661879
> 
> 
> I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.



If you have IR and turn to a no input screen (or where the input device is turned off) IR will still be displayed. For example, if say FOX's logo has caused IR. When you turn to a no input source you will see FOX's logo because having a no input source still causes your phosphors to be excited and attempting to display black. Since the phosphor is "on", if there is IR on that phosphor it will be displayed as that color instead of black.


If you are only seeing black and no IR, you then have no IR. This is actually the best way to check for IR. No input source, dark room, no lights on, stand close to the TV.


----------



## CUDOS

I just purchased a Panny 42x75u, build date Dec 2007. I have not hooked it up yet. I have spent many many hours reading through this forum, specifically for info on IR and burn in as well as reviews on the 42X75U.


I have read so much on the "required" burn in period of 100 minimum. I have not see any mention of what the Panasonic reps (2 different ones) told me. I called regarding the burn in process. They told me that they did over 100 hours burn in at the factory and I did not need to do it.


Has no one else heard this?


Cheers


----------



## David Susilo

yes, most TVs (both LCD and Plasma) have now accumulated around 100 hours at the factory level. Whether it's a new thing or it's been like that since a long time ago, I don't know.


----------



## igreg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cheaptimes* /forum/post/13662408
> 
> 
> I have a simple question and I know it has been asked many times but i'll be specific to my situation. I play xbox 360 and ps3 games and when I find a game I like I will only play that game until I am finished with it for example with blue dragon for the 360 I clocked about 200 hours over a period of 4 months playing anywhere from 2-5 hours a day 4-7 days a week and on my lcd this was about 80-90% of the tv's use. My question is if I switch the input on my panny 50px80u to a full screen display every hour or so when I go outside to have a smoke will this prevent any long term problems or is the fact that I am displaying the same static image for 200-300 hours regardless of giving it a 10 min break every hour of gaming.



May be a simple question but maybe a difficult one to answer? That is, how much game playing can cause burn-in? Are a few hours totally safe even if the game has a static icon? At what point does a concern exist? I would not think you would need to take any break if you are just playing 2 tyo 5 hours?


Alternatively, could the burn-in effect be cumulative and cause problems even if a few hours don’t? That is, if like you a person plays the same gave for hundreds of hours is there a problem with cumulative use even in you only game for a few hours at a time?


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *igreg* /forum/post/13670050
> 
> 
> May be a simple question but maybe a difficult one to answer? That is, how much game playing can cause burn-in? Are a few hours totally safe even if the game has a static icon? At what point does a concern exist? I would not think you would need to take any break if you are just playing 2 tyo 5 hours?
> 
> 
> Alternatively, could the burn-in effect be cumulative and cause problems even if a few hours don’t? That is, if like you a person plays the same gave for hundreds of hours is there a problem with cumulative use even in you only game for a few hours at a time?



You *will* see image retention after a hard core gaming session, I typically play 5 hrs and if some of my friends come by we can blow an evening playing.


The transparent HUD’s like in Halo 3 don’t really leave any IR behind (on my Sam/5044), but the hard HUDs do leave some IR. On my panel it remains consistent, if I play 30 mins or if I play 18 hours I seem to get the same IR. It evaporates in 30-1hr.


Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.


IR varies from brand to brand, some report worse recovery times some report better, and if they report none then they lie or wear serious prescription specks.


----------



## cheaptimes

Thank you for the responses igreg and air. I believe that if airhostess can play halo for a 30 min stretch or play an all nighter and as he says the IR remaines the same 30min to 1hour than I am probably safe since what got me worried about IR to begin with was a 1 hour session of gaming that left 1 hour of IR ( only looking close at a black screen ) it made me start to think that 6 hours of play would leave 6 hours of IR and so on and become noticeable in regular tv viewing. Anyways i'll let you guys know if I ever get any long term problems which is not very likely.


----------



## igreg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *airhostess* /forum/post/13670360
> 
> 
> You *will* see image retention after a hard core gaming session, I typically play 5 hrs and if some of my friends come by we can blow an evening playing.
> 
> 
> The transparent HUD's like in Halo 3 don't really leave any IR behind (on my Sam/5044), but the hard HUDs do leave some IR. On my panel it remains consistent, if I play 30 mins or if I play 18 hours I seem to get the same IR. It evaporates in 30-1hr.
> 
> 
> Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.
> 
> 
> IR varies from brand to brand, some report worse recovery times some report better, and if they report none then they lie or wear serious prescription specks.



Interesting. So all this talk and nobody has ever documented a real case of burn-in? Seems like this whole thread is not worth the bandwidth it consumes then?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *igreg* /forum/post/13671131
> 
> 
> Interesting. So all this talk and nobody has ever documented a real case of burn-in? Seems like this whole thread is not worth the bandwidth it consumes then?



This thread deals mainly with IR. Burn in use to be an issue, but no so much anymore (takes extreme abuse). However, IR is still a problem.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *airhostess* /forum/post/13670360
> 
> 
> Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.



Not true. I've tried getting rid of IR from literally more than 100 plasmas used at an airport and even after running all kinds of images for 48 hours, NONE of the burn in disappeared. They are commercial NEC plasma monitors.


This was back in December 2007 (yes, 2007, not 1997)


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelv* /forum/post/13654036
> 
> 
> I just realize that i have 400 hours on Pioneer 6010FD . I occasionally watch dvd with full screen (black bars on top and bottom). Mostly, i am in zoom mode...I guess it should be ok to go back to normal mode. By the way, User mode with dot-to-dot is awesome on regular DVD.
> 
> 
> cheers.



At the 200 mark I cut my 5080 loose and pretty much watched what I wanted except for programs with vertical black bars. I set to gray.

I've watched as many as 3 DVD movies in a row with horizontal black bars and have zero I/R. Your 6010 is one beautiful set.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13671702
> 
> 
> Not true. I've tried getting rid of IR from literally more than 100 plasmas used at an airport and even after running all kinds of images for 48 hours, NONE of the burn in disappeared. They are commercial NEC plasma monitors.
> 
> 
> This was back in December 2007 (yes, 2007, not 1997)



I presume the airport abuses the snot out of them.


----------



## livewire18

Someone left the TV and DVD player on for 10 hours with no disk in the DVD player. The blue screen from the DVD was displayed the entire time.


Will there be any damage to the TV?


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burnsalkire* /forum/post/13671939
> 
> 
> I presume the airport abuses the snot out of them.



They use them to show terminal directions, flight information, the usual stuff.


----------



## David Susilo

PS: I agree that showing flight info, terminal directions SHOULD be considered as abused, but I'm just responding to airhostess' claim that not even airports have burn-in problem and this is a bogus claim. I've seen it in various airports in Canada, Australia, Singapore, even the new Hong Kong airports are already showing signs of burn-in.


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13672353
> 
> 
> PS: I agree that showing flight info, terminal directions SHOULD be considered as abused, but I'm just responding to airhostess' claim that not even airports have burn-in problem and this is a bogus claim. I've seen it in various airports in Canada, Australia, Singapore, even the new Hong Kong airports are already showing signs of burn-in.



you should snap some images to show others, strange why you didnt?


im in airports a lot and some friends have bought abused BAA/NAA plasmas for their bars with serious IR and today, no-IR. If the image burnt eventually evaporates, it isn’t permanent now is it. i think perm burn is bogus.


----------



## David Susilo

why do I need to take pictures when I did the project way back when in December of 2007 when I didn't even know that this thread exists?


Besides, at the other airports... how am I supposed to take pics when no camera is allowed.


Regardless how many hours when you say "with serious IR and today, no-IR" a week? a month? several months?


PS: if permanent burn is bogus then manufacturers, service technicians, extended warranty companies are all stupid, pixel orbiter is also useless, grey bars when watching 4:3 they are all pointless right?


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13674986
> 
> 
> why do I need to take pictures when I did the project way back when in December of 2007 when I didn't even know that this thread exists?
> 
> 
> Besides, at the other airports... how am I supposed to take pics when no camera is allowed.
> 
> 
> Regardless how many hours when you say "with serious IR and today, no-IR" a week? a month? several months?
> 
> 
> PS: if permanent burn is bogus then manufacturers, service technicians, extended warranty companies are all stupid, pixel orbiter is also useless, grey bars when watching 4:3 they are all pointless right?




No cameras allowed? Certainly there are restricted areas, but one can simply sit at the food court in any airport and snap images of display screens, both inside checkpoints and outside. I always carry a camera and I have never been asked to not snap an image (15 years in aviation) even on sept 11 01/02/03 at Newark.


Orbiters and shifters are to remove IR /and prevent permanent burn in. The technology is working. How long has this technology been around and used? I don’t follow AV tech that close.


Couple of my friends have PDP’s (Sony I think) from Narita now sitting in night clubs, I am not sure how long it took them remove the IR, but it is safe to say it was around nov/oct 07 when they were auctioned, and the last time I was there (in Feb) the tv’s were fine, with no visible signs of hard IR while watching SD programming.


In fact I should do my own tests, I am in a better position to observe these displays. Maybe you can share your fabled test done way back when to let me figure out the parameters needed for the subject. Am a very quick study!


----------



## David Susilo

orbiters and shifters are NOT to remove IR but to PREVENT permanent burn in. Now, if there is no risk of permanent burn-in, why prevent it? or do these designers of these TVs are only having fun?


There is no "fabled test" as you sarcastically put. There is burn in, I tried to "erase" the image by playing regular TV programming for 48 hours, the burn in remains.


I don't want to debate about "nobody stopping" you while taking pictures. There are signage that disallow people to take pictures. Maybe if you're using point and shoot nobody's going to stop you because nobody notices. I travel with 2 big dSLR with 4 lenses in two big camera bags. Even going through security is PITA. I've been stopped when I was about to take pictures at airports in Toronto, Calgary, Singapore, Indonesia even in Hong Kong (although I do see there are a LOT of point shooters being ignored by security). Heck, even at Paramount's Wonderland (Toronto) I wasn't allowed in because my cameras are considered "pro" by those idiots "guarding" the park.


I'm not saying that today's plasma still have burn-in, I'm just saying that burn-in is true. I've seen it, I tried erasing it and it's still there.


PS: pixel shifter haven't been around for too long. Maybe only in the past 3 years.


----------



## dasracht

Hello,


I'm considering buying a new plasma soon, but I fear IR. Could someone be so kind as to answer one specific question for me?


My son will use the plasma to play video games, and the biggest IR risk seems to be a full saturday of game playing. Will this create IR to an unacceptable degree with static menus? I've heard lots of advice in this thread and others about switching up the content and using a screen wipe feature, but all this advice is going to be forgotten when the game begins.


Could someone comment on this situation for me? The set I'm leaning towards is the new 58A550. I wouldn't be able to afford a Pioneer, although I understand their IR prevention is superior.


Thanks in advance for humoring yet another new guy.


----------



## igreg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dasracht* /forum/post/13679631
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying a new plasma soon, but I fear IR. Could someone be so kind as to answer one specific question for me?
> 
> 
> My son will use the plasma to play video games, and the biggest IR risk seems to be a full saturday of game playing. Will this create IR to an unacceptable degree with static menus? I've heard lots of advice in this thread and others about switching up the content and using a screen wipe feature, but all this advice is going to be forgotten when the game begins.
> 
> 
> Could someone comment on this situation for me? The set I'm leaning towards is the new 58A550. I wouldn't be able to afford a Pioneer, although I understand their IR prevention is superior.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for humoring yet another new guy.



Excellent question. I have yet to see an answer about how long a peson can play a video game with a static icon without concern for burn-in. Perhaps because no standard answer is out there?


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13678943
> 
> 
> orbiters and shifters are NOT to remove IR but to PREVENT permanent burn in. Now, if there is no risk of permanent burn-in, why prevent it? or do these designers of these TVs are only having fun?
> 
> 
> There is no "fabled test" as you sarcastically put. There is burn in, I tried to "erase" the image by playing regular TV programming for 48 hours, the burn in remains.
> 
> 
> I don't want to debate about "nobody stopping" you while taking pictures. There are signage that disallow people to take pictures. Maybe if you're using point and shoot nobody's going to stop you because nobody notices. I travel with 2 big dSLR with 4 lenses in two big camera bags. Even going through security is PITA. I've been stopped when I was about to take pictures at airports in Toronto, Calgary, Singapore, Indonesia even in Hong Kong (although I do see there are a LOT of point shooters being ignored by security). Heck, even at Paramount's Wonderland (Toronto) I wasn't allowed in because my cameras are considered "pro" by those idiots "guarding" the park.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that today's plasma still have burn-in, I'm just saying that burn-in is true. I've seen it, I tried erasing it and it's still there.
> 
> 
> PS: pixel shifter haven't been around for too long. Maybe only in the past 3 years.



Your “project” is essentially useless if you aren’t prepared to share it in a comprehensive manner. Am I to believe you based purely on faith?


My Samsung manual states on page 55 “*pixel shift*: _using this function, you can minutely move the pixels on the PDP in horizontal or vertical direction to prevent after-images on the screen_.

So lets not play semantics, these functions are available to prevent the possibility of screen burn, an image must be retained to eventually become permanently burnt.

I checked my TV settings and mine isn’t even activated, by doing so it may improve my IR gaming tables.


Perhaps it is your attitude towards individuals who are curious about what you are photographing. I fly many asia-pacific destinations and occasionally we are bombarded with professional photographers (even paparazzi) at destinations on my westbound trips from BC/CA but nearly everyone is snapping some sort of image at an airport. At popular airports you cannot move without seeing professional looking camera carriers. Calgary as you pointed out has one of the best facilities and incredible access for events and plane-spotting photography inside and outside. Check out airliners.net

If you aren’t getting the shots you want, it has noting to do with the location. A man with that many lenses should know that! Don’t hear David Bailey moaning hehe.


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *igreg* /forum/post/13681987
> 
> 
> Excellent question. I have yet to see an answer about how long a peson can play a video game with a static icon without concern for burn-in. Perhaps because no standard answer is out there?



I would say each brand and even each product line has varying levels of IR saturation and evaporation, I don’t think there is a clear table for this topic. People will need to experiment for themselves and use all the available technology and information they have access to.


----------



## dasracht

Then can you provide a model that will stand up to a full day of console gaming with no break?


If this question has no clear answer, does that mean this kind of use is not tried with plasma? Does that mean I should go with lcd instead?


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dasracht* /forum/post/13682291
> 
> 
> Then can you provide a model that will stand up to a full day of console gaming with no break?
> 
> 
> If this question has no clear answer, does that mean this kind of use is not tried with plasma? Does that mean I should go with lcd instead?



I wouldn’t dare purport to say X brand is better than Y brand, and don’t be fooled into thinking Pioneer are the best PDP, a stroll through their specific lines here will dispel that.


My model stands up to hard core gaming, but so do many others. IR is a fact of PDP life for now, you can either live with it or choose to not play on plasma.


LCD has its issues with gaming that can sometimes overshadow the IR issue.


It’s your money, so read as much information as you can from reputable and non-bias reports, then make a personal decision on a TV for gaming.


----------



## dasracht

I'd welcome more opinions on this. With a full day of console gaming is IR going to be too much of a problem?


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *airhostess* /forum/post/13682254
> 
> 
> My Samsung manual states on page 55 *pixel shift*: _using this function, you can minutely move the pixels on the PDP in horizontal or vertical direction *to prevent after-images on the screen*_.
> 
> So lets not play semantics, these functions are available *to prevent the possibility of screen burn*, an image must be retained to eventually become permanently burnt.



hmmm but you said permanent burn-in is not a possibility? Samsung/Pioneer/Panasonic engineers know beter than you? What a shock!


----------



## Akanbe

Hello everyone.


I have a quick question about IR.


The posts here have 99% sold me on buying a Panasonic Viera TH-42PX80U, which I plan to use for mainly gaming, but probably a lot of tv and dvds too. However, I have one question about IR.


People say that sometimes IR exists after long periods of gaming and will eventually go away, but do you notice IR _while playing the game?_ For example, if I'm running around in the field in Mass Effect for like an hour, then I open up the menu to change equipment/guns, would I still "see" the screen in the other menu? Or say, I'm playing NHL 08 for an hour or two, which is generally a lot of white because of the ice, would i see a faint white paint over all the jerseys because of IR?


Thank you!


edit: One more quick question. Do the burn in dvds come with the plasma tvs or do you buy it separately?


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13682734
> 
> 
> hmmm but you said permanent burn-in is not a possibility? Samsung/Pioneer/Panasonic engineers know beter than you? What a shock!



There are experts who believe a meteor devastating earth is a possibility also, but the probability is rather slim, everything is a possibility, even a warning of death or serious injury in the same manual. am done debating you, you had nothing real to add at all did you.


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Akanbe* /forum/post/13682928
> 
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> 
> I have a quick question about IR.
> 
> 
> The posts here have 99% sold me on buying a Panasonic Viera TH-42PX80U, which I plan to use for mainly gaming, but probably a lot of tv and dvds too. However, I have one question about IR.
> 
> 
> People say that sometimes IR exists after long periods of gaming and will eventually go away, but do you notice IR _while playing the game?_ For example, if I'm running around in the field in Mass Effect for like an hour, then I open up the menu to change equipment/guns, would I still "see" the screen in the other menu? Or say, I'm playing NHL 08 for an hour or two, which is generally a lot of white because of the ice, would i see a faint white paint over all the jerseys because of IR?
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> edit: One more quick question. Do the burn in dvds come with the plasma tvs or do you buy it separately?



Well it depends, I play halo 2/3 and NHL 08 on my consol and rarely do I see the IR.


Since I also have NHL 08 I can safely tell you the IR is very little since the Line change symbols aren’t on long enough, and you can turn the clock off completely and just view the Ice or Action view unrestricted.

When friends stop by we can blow 8 or more hours playing NHL 08, and I never encounter IR from that particular game title.


I think you mean break-in dvd, and no they don’t come with a TV because (again) I believe break-in to be another myth propagated and fed by plasma fear. If a break in was necessary am sure manufactures would be providing users with documentation at the very least, and a dvd.


p.s. NHL 08 on a big tv is incredible. You should check out the Sim settings for sliders at the Xbox360 forum.


----------



## Benlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dasracht* /forum/post/13682683
> 
> 
> I'd welcome more opinions on this. With a full day of console gaming is IR going to be too much of a problem?



I have both plasma and LCD and for me, Plasma is for movies and LCD for all the rest. Get a LCD if you have to play games all day long and worry about IR. I game on my LCD for hours and have never experience any "motion-blur" or lag. Even if there is, when you are concentrating on your game, you won't be having the time to analyze whether the fast moving images on the screen is "blur" or not. Even console sellers ( Sony and Microsoft ) demo their machines and games on LCDs all the time.


----------



## dasracht




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Benlee* /forum/post/13686445
> 
> 
> I have both plasma and LCD and for me, Plasma is for movies and LCD for all the rest. Get a LCD if you have to play games all day long and worry about IR. I game on my LCD for hours and have never experience any "motion-blur" or lag. Even if there is, when you are concentrating on your game, you won't be having the time to analyze whether the fast moving images on the screen is "blur" or not. Even console sellers ( Sony and Microsoft ) demo their machines and games on LCDs all the time.



Thanks for the helpful reply. Also thanks for those who PM'ed me with warnings about my anticipated usage. It looks like I'll go with LCD instead.


Thanks again!


----------



## greenjp

Instead of arguing about the content of the owner's manuals, I'll just answer this one specific question that I have quite a bit of experience with:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Akanbe* /forum/post/13682928
> 
> 
> 
> People say that sometimes IR exists after long periods of gaming and will eventually go away, but do you notice IR _while playing the game?_ For example, if I'm running around in the field in Mass Effect for like an hour, then I open up the menu to change equipment/guns, would I still "see" the screen in the other menu?



Not on my Panasonic 50PX77U. Not even a hint of it. It's just not there. The HUDs don't appear on the menu screens, and the menus don't appear in the game. I've played the game through twice. Even if you run around for an hour and don't access a menu, chances are you'll have ridden in a few elevators (ha) or have gone through some dialog sequences.


FWIW my experience is the same for Halo 3, COD4, Gears of War, Bioshock, and Half Life 2. As you can see I stick primarily to shooting games. All have HUDs and crosshairs, I play 'em for 1-5 hour stints, and have never had any IR. Real or theoretical










jeff


----------



## airhostess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/13687587
> 
> 
> Instead of arguing about the content of the owner's manuals, I'll just answer this one specific question that I have quite a bit of experience with:
> 
> 
> 
> Not on my Panasonic 50PX77U. Not even a hint of it. It's just not there. The HUDs don't appear on the menu screens, and the menus don't appear in the game. I've played the game through twice. Even if you run around for an hour and don't access a menu, chances are you'll have ridden in a few elevators (ha) or have gone through some dialog sequences.
> 
> 
> FWIW my experience is the same for Halo 3, COD4, Gears of War, Bioshock, and Half Life 2. As you can see I stick primarily to shooting games. All have HUDs and crosshairs, I play 'em for 1-5 hour stints, and have never had any IR. Real or theoretical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeff



Good info Jeff, I am just curious about some parameters during your gaming. Did you game right from the box and experience the same (in your case no IR) and how are you checking for IR.


So far I have had experience with 2 plasmas (one value and one decent) and several LCD’s priced like a holiday villa in spain. I still find gaming on plasma to be the MOST rewarding for all sorts of reasons trivial and justified.


A basic understanding of what IR really is aught to dispel the fears many people have concerning it, but that is not the case it seems. There is still a high level of misunderstanding (propaganda?) among sales teams, just today I was hunting for a replacement pc monitor and checking out some popular new brands of plasma when the sales guy began warning me about Burn-in and it destroying my tv in a ball of flames (not literally). He spent most of our time warning me about plasma instead of educating me on the differences and what to expect. I would hate to be an uninformed consumer today.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *airhostess* /forum/post/13687766
> 
> 
> Good info Jeff, I am just curious about some parameters during your gaming. Did you game right from the box and experience the same (in your case no IR) and how are you checking for IR.



After I saw how ridiculous the NBC news and a basketball game looked in HD I could not resist gaming on my set day 1. I did have the contrast setting around -10 (on the '07 Panasonic's -30 to +30 scale) so I will say I took that precaution. Played an hour or so of COD4 that night. Didn't see any IR. Played an hour or two a night for the first week or so, along with some regular TV viewing, then turned up the contrast to something around +20 and have been using it like a regular TV since. I got the TV in late January.


I've stopped looking for IR at this point, but during the first month or so I'd always get up close to the screen and look where there are HUDs or TV network logos when I turned the game off or switched channels or whatever. ie, looking for HUDs when the Xbox goes to the dashboard, or the ESPN logo on the DirecTV menu. Still haven't found any.


The closest I had to it was about a week and a half after we got it, we watched a movie that had letterbox bars. When the movie was over and I stopped it, the bright white Xbox loading screen comes up, and I could faintly see where the letterbox bars had been. It evened out in a matter of seconds while I watched it. I've since watched a couple more movies like that and haven't been able to see the bars afterwards.


jeff


----------



## airhostess

Thanks for sharing, I did the same. My settings don’t change now, I guess my tv is about 3 months old.

The interesting thing is I visit a lot of game forums and never do I hear complaints regarding IR from plasma gamers, either they aren’t noticing it or its not restricting their game / tv viewing.


Great stuff, the technology is working and getting better with each unit generation.


----------



## soulman007

Just purchased first plasma tv - Panasonic TH-42PX77U - so believe me when I say I am a rookie on this stuff. I actually went to buy the best looking LCD I could find for my budget and came back with a plasma tv after the rep recommended it based on my needs. Was not a tough sell for the guy since I know nothing on the subject but I can honestly say I have not regretted my purchase so far...but then again I have nothing to compare it to. My happiness is plenty enough for me.


Been reading a lot in this forum about burn-in, image retention, break-in period. I guess there is one thing I do understand: Plasmas are much better then they were when it comes to burn-in. But since there is practically no reference to the concept in the user manual and absolutely nothing about break-in period, I guess it makes me wonder whether break-in is just a myth, at least from now on. I also read somewhere that there is a break-in period at the factory but there are still a lot of people using break-in DVDs or following the break-in recommendations of the Panasonic "white paper" (which is dated 2004 by the way). I guess the only thing I can go by right now is the FAQ on Panasonic's website:

( http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/faq/faqanswer.asp?TYPE_NAME=Question%20(s)&CAT_NAME=VIERA%20Televisions&CAT_ID=6&QUESTION_ID=51 )

_Date: 2007/02/12

Question (s): I've heard that Plasma TVs can "burn-in" over time. Is it really a concern?

Answer/Comments:

The phenomenon known as "burn-in" was a much bigger problem in the past. Burn-in is virtually a non-issue today thanks to advancements in TV technology. When used in a typical consumer's home (regular TV viewing, movies on DVD, video games and more), a new VIERA Plasma or LCD TV should provide years of worry free enjoyment.


When used in commercial applications or when a fixed image is displayed continuously, an issue may occur for almost any type of display. Uneven phosphor aging can occur in traditional CRTs, Plasmas and CRT Projection TVs. For flat panel LCD and rear projection LCD TVs, degradation of the polarizer layer may lead to slight shadows or yellowing of the image.


Again, we stress, "burn-in" is not a common occurrence in a consumer's home, where a TV is used to watch a variety of TV/video programming. However, it is more likely to occur in retail stores or in commercial displays, where a fixed image, logo or solid graphic will be displayed for months at a time._


Is this the end of the break-in myth and the burn-in paranoia or should I still wonder whether I need to watch a "crapy" image for 100-200 hours? I have yet to hear anything that would convince me that the break-in is strongly recommended (but then again I have not read everything single post in this thread or others...). Lots of people being cautious and my hat is off to them. But I am not that patient when it comes to relaxing in front of my new plasma with PQ way down to perform a break-in that is nowhere recommended by the manufacturer, and to ultimately prevent burn-in that the manufacturer itself states is a non issue for non-commercial use of the plasma tv.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soulman007* /forum/post/13689335
> 
> 
> Just purchased first plasma tv - Panasonic TH-42PX77U - so believe me when I say I am a rookie on this stuff. I actually went to buy the best looking LCD I could find for my budget and came back with a plasma tv after the rep recommended it based on my needs. Was not a tough sell for the guy since I know nothing on the subject but I can honestly say I have not regretted my purchase so far...but then again I have nothing to compare it to. My happiness is plenty enough for me.
> 
> 
> Been reading a lot in this forum about burn-in, image retention, break-in period. I guess there is one thing I do understand: Plasmas are much better then they were when it comes to burn-in. But since there is practically no reference to the concept in the user manual and absolutely nothing about break-in period, I guess it makes me wonder whether break-in is just a myth, at least from now on. I also read somewhere that there is a break-in period at the factory but there are still a lot of people using break-in DVDs or following the break-in recommendations of the Panasonic "white paper" (which is dated 2004 by the way). I guess the only thing I can go by right now is the FAQ on Panasonic's website:
> 
> ( http://www.panasonic.ca/english/cust...QUESTION_ID=51 )
> 
> _Date: 2007/02/12
> 
> Question (s): I've heard that Plasma TVs can "burn-in" over time. Is it really a concern?
> 
> Answer/Comments:
> 
> The phenomenon known as "burn-in" was a much bigger problem in the past. Burn-in is virtually a non-issue today thanks to advancements in TV technology. When used in a typical consumer's home (regular TV viewing, movies on DVD, video games and more), a new VIERA Plasma or LCD TV should provide years of worry free enjoyment.
> 
> 
> When used in commercial applications or when a fixed image is displayed continuously, an issue may occur for almost any type of display. Uneven phosphor aging can occur in traditional CRTs, Plasmas and CRT Projection TVs. For flat panel LCD and rear projection LCD TVs, degradation of the polarizer layer may lead to slight shadows or yellowing of the image.
> 
> 
> Again, we stress, "burn-in" is not a common occurrence in a consumer's home, where a TV is used to watch a variety of TV/video programming. However, it is more likely to occur in retail stores or in commercial displays, where a fixed image, logo or solid graphic will be displayed for months at a time._
> 
> 
> Is this the end of the break-in myth and the burn-in paranoia or should I still wonder whether I need to watch a "crapy" image for 100-200 hours? I have yet to hear anything that would convince me that the break-in is strongly recommended (but then again I have not read everything single post in this thread or others...). Lots of people being cautious and my hat is off to them. But I am not that patient when it comes to relaxing in front of my new plasma with PQ way down to perform a break-in that is nowhere recommended by the manufacturer, and to ultimately prevent burn-in that the manufacturer itself states is a non issue for non-commercial use of the plasma tv.



You don't have to watch a crappy image for the first 100-200 hours.

Watch full screen hd and dvd's and/or a break-in dvd.


----------



## b_scott

have there been objective double blind tests on break-in done? like, break in one plasma for 200 hours and get another exact same model right out of the box and compare, neither side knowing which is which except for the serial number? i'm wondering if it's a little bit of placebo effect or if it really truly helps. then again, if possibly the picture does get a bit better and broken in after 200 hours or so, but yet possibly you do not have to do anything special on the way to that mark.


----------



## Fit2Run

Just had my 50" Pioneer 5010-PDP installed yesterday. The HT installers said there is no need to break the tv in. The said the tv actually moves the picture slightly back and forth so fast to avoid IR.


I have a Calibrator coming in specifically in 10 days. I was told by him to break the tv in B4 you calibrate as the image can change.


So, the plan is to run a break in dvd for about 6-8 hours a day and then ENJOY my new TV at night for a few hours while watching tv/movies. I did lower the contracts and am using full screen view as a pre-caution.


PS: The tv is outstanding. Now if I can just learn how to use the receiver Id be in good shape (pioneer vsx92)


----------



## itbvolks

To help people understand this a little more clearly.


New plasma's will break in over the course of the first few hunder hours (actual lumenance value decrease over the life of the set). During the first few hundred hours colors can and will shift some, brightness changes, etc. The break-in disks out help to speed the process some by utlizing high intensity but short duration images to excite the phosphors and allow them to stabilize.


The reason most recommend getting some hours on your set before heavy gaming is because most games have high contrast images that are static in some nature (HUD's, crosshairs, etc). With a new set, the brightness/contrast is high and the phosphors are suseptable and this can cause IR/Burn-in.


That being said, I didn't use any break-in disk with my set. I watched full screen material for a few weeks on and off prior to really starting to game to ensure things had stabilized. Now I play COD4 for hours without any ill affects. I do generally try to follow up my gaming with some full screen viewing just for piece of mind but I have yet to see anything resembling IR on my set. Very happy with it as I was really concerned initially.


All good


----------



## tlieberg

I suppose I'm just a heretic but I'll sign up for the burn-in as urban legend theory. Can you actually burn-in an image on a plasma? Sure. You could on a CRT, too. How many of you ever saw a burned-in CRT? How many of you have ever seen a burned-in plasma?


Let me suggest this: go search the internet, find the outraged consumers who have broken plasma's. When you find them, post it here. You can find a lot of discussion out there about burn-in and scary break-in advice. And you can find a lot of complaints about real issues with plasmas, from screen glare to green-fringing to panasonic blinking lights but show me the posts from people who's tv has been ruined or damaged by burn-in. How many people read these forums before using their plasma? How many people would find their way to internet forums/retailer sites after they had ruined their tv? I suspect the former group is WAY smaller than the latter. Ergo, few consumers with plasma's hear much of anything about burn-in. They certainly aren't getting it from the owner's manuals (assuming they even read them.)


Use moderation. Don't watch the same content source on your tv for 24 hours a day. But for crying out loud, you can watch a movie with black bars on the first day and the world won't end. Really. Take a deep breath and enjoy your tv. There are plenty of reasons to choose LCD but if the reason you avoid plasma is burn-in, you've been bamboozled.


----------



## b_scott

honestly the only place i've ever seen burn in on a CRT or plasma was at places like airports and train stations where the same image was on them 24/7 for incoming/outgoing.


----------



## David Susilo

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/te...cs/plasma.html


----------



## b_scott

interesting read. should be noted that the man in the first paragraph had to have had at least a 7G Pioneer if not earlier.


----------



## tlieberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13703803
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/te...cs/plasma.html



Well that would seem to match my request for examples, though I find it interesting that he had only two examples and refers generically to "numerous other posts on various technology forums" but provides no details. You can find innumerable posts about burn-in and how to avoid it but few about victims of it. I also suspect (with admittedly little evidence) the primary "victim" here was not playing Guitar Hero for just a few hours to produce burn-in. We're missing the details of what the two affected plasma owners did to cause burn-in. If you play guitar hero for 16 hours a day, day after day with no alternate content, why yes you might have a burn in issue.


I'm also struck by the quotes from the contact at Panasonic:


"There is no such thing, almost, as burn. You have to as an end user almost intentionally try very hard to burn a set," says Barry Murray, director of marketing at the audio-visual group at Panasonic Canada Inc.


Short-term image retention can happen, Murray says, but it usually goes away after watching a few minutes of full-screen video.


"It's fairly common but 100 per cent reversible just by watching other video programs."


Have there been posts from users in this thread or elsewhere on the Plasma forum at AVS? You'd think with a problem purported to be this serious, impacted consumers would show up here, at least occassionally...


----------



## rm1111

Hello all, just brought a pioneer 1150HD. I found the break in settings on the other thread under D-Nice first post. I was wondering, is there a certain connection you have to use with your DVD Player like hdmi or can i just use regular rca cables for the break in disc.


Thanks, Ray


----------



## kuru

hey all










I'm getting a new 42" samsung plasma in the next few days. I'm gonna break-in the screen for the first 100 hours by running break-in DVDs or watching HD content. I also know that I need to reduce all the settings to 50% the first 100 hours. but I have a few questions on the break-in period:


1) do I need to run the break-in DVD all the time, or is watching full screen content will give the same effects right?


2)Can I run leave the TV on for 4 days straight so I can finish the 100 hours the quickest way possible?


3) I'm also buying a PS3 and I really want to play it, and I can't wait for than a week. can't I play my ps3 for like an hour every 3-4 hours of breaking-in the TV (in the first 100hour period)?


thx in advance










and please help me, I'm getting the TV tomorrow


----------



## kuru









help please


I know I should ve patient but I'm buying the TV tomorrow and I don't wanna break it :|


please!


----------



## Akanbe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/13707842
> 
> 
> hey all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting a new 42" samsung plasma in the next few days. I'm gonna break-in the screen for the first 100 hours by running break-in DVDs or watching HD content. I also know that I need to reduce all the settings to 50% the first 100 hours. but I have a few questions on the break-in period:
> 
> 
> 1) do I need to run the break-in DVD all the time, or is watching full screen content will give the same effects right?
> 
> 
> 2)Can I run leave the TV on for 4 days straight so I can finish the 100 hours the quickest way possible?
> 
> 
> 3) I'm also buying a PS3 and I really want to play it, and I can't wait for than a week. can't I play my ps3 for like an hour every 3-4 hours of breaking-in the TV (in the first 100hour period)?
> 
> 
> thx in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and please help me, I'm getting the TV tomorrow



patience, I assume most people are at work










I've read enough posts here to be able to answer your questions. People can feel free to correct me if i'm incorrect.


1.) Full screen content is fine for breaking in. Just be wary of logos and tickers from certain channels.


2.) I've read most people seem to cycle their watching. For example they put the break in dvd for 5-7 hours then let it rest for 1-2, then repeat. Sleep timer works great here.


3.) If you're just going to be playing an hour of PS3, I can't see it hurting. Anything that does stick to the screen (if anything at all) would just be very temporary and should wash away fast after normal viewing. Just make sure to have your brightness and contrast down to 40-45%. It's also worth noting that some people here have gamed from day one on their sets and didn't get any IR.


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Akanbe* /forum/post/13709774
> 
> 
> patience, I assume most people are at work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read enough posts here to be able to answer your questions. People can feel free to correct me if i'm incorrect.
> 
> 
> 1.) Full screen content is fine for breaking in. Just be wary of logos and tickers from certain channels.
> 
> 
> 2.) I've read most people seem to cycle their watching. For example they put the break in dvd for 5-7 hours then let it rest for 1-2, then repeat. Sleep timer works great here.
> 
> 
> 3.) If you're just going to be playing an hour of PS3, I can't see it hurting. Anything that does stick to the screen (if anything at all) would just be very temporary and should wash away fast after normal viewing. Just make sure to have your brightness and contrast down to 40-45%. It's also worth noting that some people here have gamed from day one on their sets and didn't get any IR.



oh I'm sorry, I didn't thought about that some people might be at work because of the time difference. sorry about that


And thank you for your answer. so I guess playing an hour of PS3 from day1 every several hours of break-in wouldn't hurt.


again thank you for your help


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/13710230
> 
> 
> oh I'm sorry, I didn't thought about that some people might be at work because of the time difference. sorry about that
> 
> 
> And thank you for your answer. so I guess playing an hour of PS3 from day1 every several hours of break-in wouldn't hurt.
> 
> 
> again thank you for your help



You don't have to turn your settings down if you are watching full screen HD content or the break in DVD. Actually, you should be turning them up on the break in DVD to speed things along. If you are going to watch full screen content, adjust to your liking and enjoy. If you are worried about the PS3 game. Wait a few days, then play it. I don't think it will hurt but if you are that worried, go for it.


----------



## xraysight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/13707842
> 
> 
> hey all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting a new 42" samsung plasma in the next few days. I'm gonna break-in the screen for the first 100 hours by running break-in DVDs or watching HD content. I also know that I need to reduce all the settings to 50% the first 100 hours. but I have a few questions on the break-in period:
> 
> 
> 1) do I need to run the break-in DVD all the time, or is watching full screen content will give the same effects right?
> 
> 
> 2)Can I run leave the TV on for 4 days straight so I can finish the 100 hours the quickest way possible?
> 
> 
> 3) I'm also buying a PS3 and I really want to play it, and I can't wait for than a week. can't I play my ps3 for like an hour every 3-4 hours of breaking-in the TV (in the first 100hour period)?
> 
> 
> thx in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and please help me, I'm getting the TV tomorrow



The key to breaking in plasma is to avoid static images like logos or video game HUDs for extended time. There is no science to it. Most people recommend changing picture preset to cinema or the like, which usually has lower brightness. You don't need to use the "break-in" dvd or watch only HD channels. If you watch SD channels, just stretch the image so there is no pillarboxing on the sides. I didn't game on mine when i first got it. If you do i would avoid longer sessions, ~2-3 hr long until you got 100-200 hours on board.


again no rule here against gaming, but most limit it when tv is new.


i did not leave my tv on nonstop for 4 days, but some posters have done it. i am a little paranoid about leaving tv on when at work or sleeping.


Enjoy your new set.


----------



## b_scott

there is a Pio 4280 at the Apple Store in Chicago - watched it hooked up to an Apple TV. i got really close and noticed the picture shift slightly which had to be the orbiter working. really cool, couldn't notice it from a distance, only up close. i can't imagine there would be any possibility for IR/burn with that on - the whole picture goes in a circle constantly.


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13711628
> 
> 
> You don't have to turn your settings down if you are watching full screen HD content or the break in DVD. Actually, you should be turning them up on the break in DVD to speed things along. If you are going to watch full screen content, adjust to your liking and enjoy. If you are worried about the PS3 game. Wait a few days, then play it. I don't think it will hurt but if you are that worried, go for it.



Are you sure about this point? that I should turn the sittings to high when there's no static image on the screen to things along?


and another question: I heared that there's a 1/4 second input lag in plasma screens, is that true?


thx in advance


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/13726318
> 
> 
> I heared that there's a 1/4 second input lag in plasma screens, is that true?



Completely false. There is no detectable lag on mine.


Where did you hear this?


jeff


----------



## David Susilo

even IF it is true, can you detect it? if not then it's not a problem.


----------



## kuru

^^^ looks like he was just an LCD fanboy 


I haven't played yet on it so I don't know










but what about turning the settings up when breaking-in the TV?


----------



## greenjp

I don't really know about "breaking in" the TV. I exercised some caution during the first week and a half or so. I set the contrast to about 50% and avoided letterboxed and pillarboxed shows. I did play games on it right away, but even the "static" things in most games really aren't on the screen all the time so I didn't fell this was a risk.


I did not use a break in DVD. I did put the TV on HD Theater and leave it on over night a couple of times and a few days while I went to work.


So I guess my thoughts on break in are sorta middle of the road - I don't think you should just go willy nilly in Vivid mode with 100% contrast, but I also think all this break in DVD, 100-200 hour stuff is major overkill.


jeff


----------



## kuru

oh thx! I'll try gaming the first or so days and see what happens,, if i get too much IR, I'll try running a break in dvd.


thx for the help jeff


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/13726318
> 
> 
> Are you sure about this point? that I should turn the sittings to high when there's no static image on the screen to things along?
> 
> 
> and another question: I heared that there's a 1/4 second input lag in plasma screens, is that true?
> 
> 
> thx in advance



If you visit the Settings thread for the Kuro TVs, you will see that even Dnice has much higher settings for when breaking in the TV when using the break in DVD and these settings should never be used for regular viewing. It is because you want to help accelerate the break in period. Don't do it if you have any static images.


----------



## tonyptony

Can the Break In download be set up to run from a flash drive?


----------



## wicketr

From the way I understand it, when you watch a static image on a TV out of the box, you are aging certain phosphors more-so than others when the phosphors are relatively young. And when they are young, you can obviously tell the difference moreso than when they are older.


This is akin to telling the difference between a 5yr old kid and a 10 yr old kid. The difference is drastic. However, it's much harder to tell the difference in a 40yr old guy vs a 45yr old guy.


The burn-in of your set at the beginning isn't all THAT necessary because eventually all your pixels will get older and the difference in age relatively shorter. However, it does scare the crap out of you when all your pixels are in their infancy.


As long as you vary your watching over the lifetime of your set and it gets even wear over the years, your TV will be fine. You will get image retention here and there, but it won't last.


----------



## chief-j




> Quote:
> No problem.... heres the deal: Burn-in used to be much more of an issue that it is today. Actually, unless someone completely abuses the TV there is really no chance of burn-in at all. When I say abuse, I mean like video gaming for days on end with long pauses and no breaks at all. Or maybe using the set as a stock ticker monitor for weeks and weeks. You get the point..... for 99% of the viewing population a plasma will never burn-in. Period.
> 
> 
> Burn-in is an LCD-supporter issue because LCD guys KNOW that plasma hands them their arse in almost every picture quality category so they need something to bring down plasma.
> 
> 
> Get the Pioneer.... its an awesome set and burn-in wont be an issue



While by and large I would agree with this statement (especially about Pioneers, great manufacturer btw), I am one of the unlucky few that has suffered from long-term IR. I'm hoping it's not permanent burn-in, but as time goes on my hopes continue to dwindle.


I have the Pioneer PDP4270HD 42" plasma, and have had it a little over a year, but have had some level of IR for almost 4 months now. It happened because my Verizon FIOS DVR froze when displaying ESPN (along with its beautiful red channel logo and score bar







. I was downstairs cleaning for maybe an hour, hour and a half, and came up to witness the fallout. On normal viewing it is often difficult to see the IR, but on a bright background you can clearly make out the red ESPN logo, and some of the borders of the score bar and the "rundown" bar that displays vertically on the right hand side of the screen.


I have tried outputting VGA from my pc to the TV and running Jscreenfix for hours to no avail. I also ran the break-in DVD for 4-5 hours and no dice. When you view an all white screen, it is VERY apparent.


Anyhow, I don't have much hope of fixing this, but if anyone has suggestions, please let me know. The TV doesn't have a "white wash" function or anything like that to fix IR, so I don't know what else to try. Mainly I just wanted to confirm for those curious that yes, IR still exists and can happen to you, although I think my case might be a rare one. Still, if you have FIOS and the DVR, do not leave the TV on it while you're away from the room. I learned the hard way, and turn the tube off whenever I'm away from it. Still, when I come home I turn on the set and often find the DVR has frozen the channel where it was left, so the opportunity is always there if you're not careful and you have FIOS. Just an FYI -


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chief-j* /forum/post/13770170
> 
> 
> I have the Pioneer PDP4270HD 42" plasma, and have had it a little over a year, but have had some level of IR for almost 4 months now. It happened because my Verizon FIOS DVR froze when displaying ESPN (along with its beautiful red channel logo and score bar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was downstairs cleaning for maybe an hour, hour and a half, and came up to witness the fallout. On normal viewing it is often difficult to see the IR, but on a bright background you can clearly make out the red ESPN logo, and some of the borders of the score bar and the "rundown" bar that displays vertically on the right hand side of the screen.
> 
> 
> I have tried outputting VGA from my pc to the TV and running Jscreenfix for hours to no avail. I also ran the break-in DVD for 4-5 hours and no dice. When you view an all white screen, it is VERY apparent.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I don't have much hope of fixing this, but if anyone has suggestions, please let me know. The TV doesn't have a "white wash" function or anything like that to fix IR, so I don't know what else to try. Mainly I just wanted to confirm for those curious that yes, IR still exists and can happen to you, although I think my case might be a rare one.



Do you read that airhostess?


----------



## chief-j

I'll try to post some pics that show the IR when I get home, but just thought I'd throw my $.02 into the discussion. What's funny is how some people can display static images for dozens of hours, and at worst only need to watch full-screen video for 30 minutes and they're good. I watch a good deal of TV, almost all in HD, and no improvement yet.


----------



## Bengoshi2000

Dare I hook up my Atari 2600?


----------



## b_scott

oh man, Joust would kill.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bengoshi2000* /forum/post/13770774
> 
> 
> Dare I hook up my Atari 2600?



Try pacman! See whether IR is real or not after finishing 99 levels of it!


----------



## booker21

New to plasma technology, i may get one but i´m afraid of BI and IR.


I do know to get BI you have to leave your TV on with same scene for many hs... This is very hard to happen unless you fall sleep watching a screenshot.


But IR scare me.

My question is, how long IR takes? I game a lot, let´s say 5hs sessions, the games usually have some HUD, etc but this goes away when you get to see a cutscene or a loading screen. Will this screens reduce IR chances?


Could someone explain me how IR works and how it looks?


The PROS of plasma technology make me want to get one, over my current lcd, but again, this BI/IR weakness turn me away from.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chief-j* /forum/post/13770563
> 
> 
> I'll try to post some pics that show the IR when I get home, but just thought I'd throw my $.02 into the discussion. What's funny is how some people can display static images for dozens of hours, and at worst only need to watch full-screen video for 30 minutes and they're good. I watch a good deal of TV, almost all in HD, and no improvement yet.



I just noticed tonight( after watching 3-4 hours of the NFL Draft last weekend ) that I have the image of the ON THE CLOCK logo .It is in the upper right hand corner of my 4270 . It must have happened on Saturday so it is recent. I wonder if 2 hours of CARS full screen ,set on DYNAMIC might do the trick ? I put in ICE AGE via PS3 and it seems to have gotten lighter ,but I am not sure .Any suggestions ? You can see it best on a white sceen.










p.s the tv is over a year old and has over 2000 hours , this hasn't happened before/


----------



## chief-j

Okay guys, as promised I've attached pics that show the IR on my TV. It's most noticeable in the first pic, which is on a white backdrop, but you can see it in the other pics as well. In the second pic, you have to look close, but focus on the bottom right corner between the two couch cushions and you'll see the infamous ESPN logo staring back at you. The third pic is a close-up of #2 to give a better idea of where it is.


As always, any help or suggestions is most appreciated. Thanks -


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chief-j* /forum/post/13777621
> 
> 
> Okay guys, as promised I've attached pics that show the IR on my TV. It's most noticeable in the first pic, which is on a white backdrop, but you can see it in the other pics as well. In the second pic, you have to look close, but focus on the bottom right corner between the two couch cushions and you'll see the infamous ESPN logo staring back at you. The third pic is a close-up of #2 to give a better idea of where it is.
> 
> 
> As always, any help or suggestions is most appreciated. Thanks -



That is the same issue I have except it is in the top left hand part of the screen. If anyone was watching the NFL Draft they had a logo up in that area and it would say who was on the clock next .I can see the words clock the same as you espn logo. I have logged over 2000 hours on this set and thought I was immune form IR as long as I didn't abuse the set. I didn't think 3 hours of the Draft would cause this . They did break for commercial and I did change channels , so there you go. I hope after a few weeks it will fade away. Anyone have any Ideas? I think a few PIXAR movies full screen on dynamic might do the trick


----------



## JCBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/13777743
> 
> 
> That is the same issue I have except it is in the top left hand part of the screen. If anyone was watching the NFL Draft they had a logo up in that area and it would say who was on the clock next .I can see the words clock the same as you espn logo. I have logged over 2000 hours on this set and thought I was immune form IR as long as I didn't abuse the set. I didn't think 3 hours of the Draft would cause this . They did break for commercial and I did change channels , so there you go. I hope after a few weeks it will fade away. Anyone have any Ideas? I think a few PIXAR movies full screen on dynamic might do the trick



I watched all three hours of the Draft on my newer Panasonic 85U, and didn't get IR from the clock or ESPN logo. It was standard def, but that shouldn't matter. Both of these sets being 4270's makes me wonder.


----------



## b_scott

oh man. i wonder if you could run the inverted image of the logo in black with a white screen or something. probably not now since the set isn't new anymore.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JCBoomer* /forum/post/13778019
> 
> 
> I watched all three hours of the Draft on my newer Panasonic 85U, and didn't get IR from the clock or ESPN logo. It was standard def, but that shouldn't matter. Both of these sets being 4270's makes me wonder.



Well I did , I notice last night watching PBS gLOBIAL wARMING when they show a white sceen shot I saw it . Then I put in ICE AGE and there is was , couldn't figure out how it got there until I could rean "on the clock" and I said oh no!!!! I am on FIOS too. Wonder if any of the monster screen cleaner I bought would work?







Hope it gose away havn't watched any TV at all ,but I did play the ICE AGE via PS3 on Dynamic and I thought it got "lighter" could be just wishful thinking.


----------



## David Susilo

where is airhostess when you need her? I thought all of these IR are just myth







according to her, all of her friends who bought plasmas with IR have completely erased any IR. I'd like to know their method.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13778960
> 
> 
> where is airhostess when you need her? I thought all of these IR are just myth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> according to her, all of her friends who bought plasmas with IR have completely erased any IR. I'd like to know their method.



Well myth is now a reality for me , I will send a pic later tonight to show the 2" x 4" "ON THE CLOCK " logo that my Pio plasma proudly displays on a white screen







.


----------



## David Susilo

I've been saying that about burn in, it's just some naysayers refuse to believe me.


IR and "burn in" is still a reality. If not, then no plasma manufacturer will ever mention the risk of burn-in.


I still use plasma, however.


----------



## Vikinguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toppel* /forum/post/13421384
> 
> 
> I've been reading everyone's suggestions and information in this thread. Most of the advice is along the same lines but many suggestions or beliefs differ slightly. I decided to contact the Panasonic Concierge service in which you talk to a support rep. I have a panny TH-58PZ700U. I told him I had been sudying up on break in.
> 
> 
> He told me to leave the default factory settings for the first 100 hours. He said, I didn't need to necessarly use H-fill to remove the side bars, but rather just watch the TV normally. I usually watch full screen HD, but occassionally watch 4:3 .......
> 
> 
> The big thing I guess is the default color settings are set to vivid and not standard...That seems contrary to a lot of the advice in this forum as far as settings optimal for break in.
> 
> 
> I thought I would ask for opinions on the instructions I received from panasonic..He repeated 3 times to leave the default settings and do not touch them for 100 hours. Also, that using a break in disk would not be necessary.
> 
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.






My px80u came set to standard.


----------



## hr21

have the posters with rentition problem here not used the break-in dvd or broke their tv's properly in here? Or is it just a problem that can happen if you watch a logo orientated channel even on an old tv. Feedback welcomed


----------



## David Susilo

according to airhostess, break-in period is also a myth.


I, for one, believe that although break-in DVD is not needed, break-in period do exist at least for the first 100-200 hours.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13781159
> 
> 
> I've been saying that about burn in, it's just some naysayers refuse to believe me.
> 
> 
> IR and "burn in" is still a reality. If not, then no plasma manufacturer will ever mention the risk of burn-in.
> 
> 
> I still use plasma, however.



well here are some pics with a not so great camera


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/13783755
> 
> 
> well here are some pics with a not so great camera



you have to look hard but it is there ,now when you see live it's 5x worse


----------



## grubavs

Hi, below is a copy of a post I put into the Sammy 550 thread. I maybe should have put it here?? Any help will be much appreciated:


I'm looking at the PN58A550 and have a question. We cannot get OTA here, and Comcast here won't be "upograding" our service to HD until the end of the year (just checked in again... last year they were saying Spring 08... they swear it's because the CA Coastal Commission wouldn't let them put in new wires







). Anyway, that means that any TV we watch is 4:3 (up to 4-hours/night). Is that a concern? Should I go with a 52" LCD instead? Thanks.


----------



## FlynP5

I downloaded the Break-In DVD, burned it and now what I get when played on my plasma is, full screen RGB colors that switch every so often.


Is this what's suppose to be on the Break-In DVD. It seems kinda bright with nothing on it but the RGB full screen colors, I thought it would have been some kind of moving picture.


----------



## tonyptony

That's what it is. It cycles through the full screen colors so that all the phosphors get excercised across the range of colors.


----------



## jaygeedubbya

I picked up a returned Pioneer 6070HD for ~$1500 that has some burn-in(?) from playing 2.35 material on it in the store. Can I mitigate the burn-in? Does a free or downloadable anti-2.35 disc exist? Will the Burn-in disc help at all? I wouldn't think so, but I really don't know. I only have about 16 hours (from now) to return it. The panel has about 432 hours on it according to the service menu. Please help!!! Does Pixel Protector work? I have read through this entire thread but I don't see fixes.... just arguments as to whether plasmas suffer from burn-in. Whatever this is, I'd like to get rid of it. I really, really like the picture except for the slightly brighter areas at the top and bottom. It is really only noticeable on solid, bright scenes (a horizon shot, for instance.)


Anywho, thanks for any input!


Thanks.


----------



## David Susilo

if it's been displaying 2.35 material in torch mode for the past 400+ hours, the odds for you to completely erase IR is minimal.


----------



## jaygeedubbya

Thanks. That's what I figured.


----------



## bottoms

[ Does Pixel Protector work? I have read through this entire thread but I don't see fixes.... just arguments as to whether plasmas suffer from burn-in.

Thanks.[/quote]


Has anyone used Pixel Protector ? My 4271 goes black whenever I try to use a channell with no signal , it will show "snow " for 10 seconds only. I have run 12 hours of Full Screen HD AND MY GHOSTING IS STILL THERE BRIGHT AS EVER.


----------



## kryptonik

Attention New Panasonic Plasma Owners,


I just purchased a 42" Panasonic PZ85U and was half way into the break-in period when I decided to call Panasonic and see if it was completely necessary. I was told directly by Panasonic Canada's phone support that each new Plasma TV gets 100hrs put on it before it leaves the factory thus making further break-in unnecessary. I suppose the extra 50 hrs I gave it will just have to be icing on the cake!


----------



## David Susilo

I posted the same thing several pages ago.


----------



## CUDOS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kryptonik* /forum/post/13797909
> 
> 
> Attention New Panasonic Plasma Owners,
> 
> 
> I just purchased a 42" Panasonic PZ85U and was half way into the break-in period when I decided to call Panasonic and see if it was completely necessary. I was told directly by Panasonic Canada's phone support that each new Plasma TV gets 100hrs put on it before it leaves the factory thus making further break-in unnecessary. I suppose the extra 50 hrs I gave it will just have to be icing on the cake!



Don't kid yourself!, I was told the EXACT same thing by 2 different Panny reps. That they burn in for 100 hours at the factory. Well I decided to check for myself and accessed the system menu that shows how many hours have been put on the set. To my surprise, mine only had 60 hours! all of which had to have been put on by me, as I had the set for 2 weeks at that point.














So the Panny reps are full of ****. I emailed them back expressing how pissed that they would B.S people like that and risk having their customers developing IR because they did not break in the unit as they claimed.


Just thought I would pass that along.


PS: I received NO reply to my email from Panasonic regarding my findings


----------



## Zenjabil

Have had my 58PZ700u for 11 months (would guess I have ~ 4500 hrs on the set) with no issues (run in standard mode with reasonable contrast/brightness settings). However, about 1 week ago, I started noticing a 4:3 wear pattern. The pattern is noticeable about 10% of material...most notable on light/bright colours...white, sky blue etc. etc. where the sidebars are a bit lighter than the central part of the screen...which appears a bit 'dirtier', but only in direct comparison.


It would appear that the phosphors in the central part of the screen have been subjected to greater wear/use. However, while 4:3 constitutes approx. 50% of my viewing material, I was surprised to see this wear pattern since my cable box always projects the 4:3 side bars as medium gray rather than black (thereby ensuring they're subjected to some wear). The issue is definitely with the panel rather than the cable box, since its reproducable with other sources (HD DVD etc.)


Is there anyway to rectify this? Are there any DVD's etc. that I can run to induce greater wear in the side bars? Is this a mfg defect? Is this something I can follow up w/ Panasonic about and ask for a replacement?


----------



## ZBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CUDOS* /forum/post/13805208
> 
> 
> Don't kid yourself!, I was told the EXACT same thing by 2 different Panny reps. That they burn in for 100 hours at the factory. Well I decided to check for myself and accessed the system menu that shows how many hours have been put on the set. To my surprise, mine only had 60 hours! all of which had to have been put on by me, as I had the set for 2 weeks at that point.
> 
> 
> So the Panny reps are full of ****. I emailed them back expressing how pissed that they would B.S people like that and risk having their customers developing IR because they did not break in the unit as they claimed.
> 
> 
> Just thought I would pass that along.
> 
> 
> PS: I received NO reply to my email from Panasonic regarding my findings



I would assume if they burn in a TV at the factory, they reset the hour meter, or burn in the panel before it's even installed into the case, to assure it passes Q/C.


If they burned in TV's for 100 hours, and didn't reset the meters, they'd be taking thousands of calls from people pissed they had a "used" TV because the hour meter wasn't at zero. I wouldn't take the fact your hour meter came with "0" on it as meaning it wasn't burned in at the factory.


----------



## Scotty2H

^^True. Much the same that many car manufacturers break in your engine before installing it in your car. Your odo still reads zero when it comes off the assembly line.


It would be foolish of panasonic to build the tv in its entirety then break it in. This is likely an intermediary process in the assembly.


----------



## JCBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13807591
> 
> 
> Have had my 58PZ700u for 11 months (would guess I have ~ 3000 hrs on the set) with no issues (run in standard mode with reasonable contrast/brightness settings). However, about 1 week ago, I started noticing a 4:3 wear pattern.



That's really disappointing to read. I've stated before (maybe on this thread?) that I feel uneven wear from 4:3 material is still the biggest danger in regards to burn-in. I assumed the gray bars would eliminate this risk, but I guess not. I doubt Panny would cover that, but it won't hurt to ask.


You may search through the Burn-in thread on the CRT Projection TV's. It seems like I read on there at one time about someone making a static image where the static was just on the sides of the 4:3 that they would run over night with the contrast turned up to even the wear out. What you are going to have to do is display an image on the edges where the bars were, and not in the middle. Maybe a calibrator or someone with more technical knowledge than I will chime in.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/13794843
> 
> 
> [ Does Pixel Protector work? I have read through this entire thread but I don't see fixes.... just arguments as to whether plasmas suffer from burn-in.
> 
> Thanks.



Has anyone used Pixel Protector ? My 4271 goes black whenever I try to use a channell with no signal , it will show "snow " for 10 seconds only. I have run 12 hours of Full Screen HD AND MY GHOSTING IS STILL THERE BRIGHT AS EVER.[/quote]


might be fading ?


----------



## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JCBoomer* /forum/post/13809026
> 
> 
> That's really disappointing to read. I've stated before (maybe on this thread?) that I feel uneven wear from 4:3 material is still the biggest danger in regards to burn-in. I assumed the gray bars would eliminate this risk, but I guess not. I doubt Panny would cover that, but it won't hurt to ask.
> 
> 
> You may search through the Burn-in thread on the CRT Projection TV's. It seems like I read on there at one time about someone making a static image where the static was just on the sides of the 4:3 that they would run over night with the contrast turned up to even the wear out. What you are going to have to do is display an image on the edges where the bars were, and not in the middle. Maybe a calibrator or someone with more technical knowledge than I will chime in.



Yes, that is exactly what I need to do...i.e. run a signal (presumably overnight) that induces wear in the side bars, but leaves the middle of the screen black. I assumed I can;t possibly be the only one with this issue and thought a solution such as I've described above may already exist.


Alternatively, I understand that the service mode in this set allows one to tweak the intensity of the side bars to address precisely this issue. I'm able to access the service menu, but the contents are Greek to me. Does anyone know where in the menu I can locate the appropriate menu/submenu.


----------



## FlynP5

Where do you find the menu on the 50pz85u that shows how many hours the set has been used. I'm trying to keep track for the break-in period.


----------



## phlash420

As with most gamers who are breaking in a Plasma, I'm DYING to play some video games. I played one game of MLB the Show with the settings cranked way down to the 30s...no IR whatsoever. However, I'm anxious to sit down and have a true gaming session with my setting displayed somewhat normal (40s-50 range, I have a panasonic PX80.


My question, are there any good games on PS3 (or 360) in which I have the option to turn off all of the static images?


----------



## ozzzie3

My PS3 choice is Call of Duty 4, you can play hardcore online (no HUD). I play some in a zoom mode to move the HUD a little. Played many hours with a well broken in pioneer 4270 and I do have some minor IR (noticable on white screen) and still hoping it will go away. Just have to pay attention to your game play.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FlynP5* /forum/post/13812851
> 
> 
> Where do you find the menu on the 50pz85u that shows how many hours the set has been used. I'm trying to keep track for the break-in period.



It should be in the service menu. If you don't where it is at you probably should not get into it. Record your hours manually.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phlash420* /forum/post/13814306
> 
> 
> As with most gamers who are breaking in a Plasma, I'm DYING to play some video games. I played one game of MLB the Show with the settings cranked way down to the 30s...no IR whatsoever. However, I'm anxious to sit down and have a true gaming session with my setting displayed somewhat normal (40s-50 range, I have a panasonic PX80.
> 
> 
> My question, are there any good games on PS3 (or 360) in which I have the option to turn off all of the static images?



The COD suggestion was good, if you just play a bunch of online deathmatch type games the HUD will constantly be "interrupted", when you get killed, in the pre-game lobby, etc.


As you've now discovered that a game of MLB won't show up, feel free to play two games. Or play one game with the contrast at 50, etc. Do some experiments to see if there's even anything worth worrying about. One game can't ruin your set







and you may find (as I did with my PX77) that all this break in/IR/gaming stuff is overblown.


jeff


----------



## phlash420




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/13815103
> 
> 
> The COD suggestion was good, if you just play a bunch of online deathmatch type games the HUD will constantly be "interrupted", when you get killed, in the pre-game lobby, etc.
> 
> 
> As you've now discovered that a game of MLB won't show up, feel free to play two games. Or play one game with the contrast at 50, etc. Do some experiments to see if there's even anything worth worrying about. One game can't ruin your set
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you may find (as I did with my PX77) that all this break in/IR/gaming stuff is overblown.
> 
> 
> jeff




Thanks for the advice.


Unfortunatly I have COD4 on the 360, and for some strange reason I'm having problems with my XBLive account and can't play online right now. I think you're right though...I'll try MLB again and take it from there.


----------



## b_scott

i'm risking it an playing the 5010 straight out of the box w/D-Nice ref settings. i may play the break in w/the torch settings overnight and during work though.


----------



## LeviJohnson

I recently picked up a plasma tv (Maxent MX-42X3 if it matters). It's not an extremely new model, but isn't too old either. I'd estimate that I've put in maybe 300-400 hours into it, so it should be past it's initial break-in period. For gaming, I have my brightness/contrast both turned down to 40%, and I try not play any games for more than an hour or two without switching to something else for the same amount of time.


I never notice any IR problems *except* when I display a completely white screen. Then I'll notice some faint HUD images. If I completely stop playing the game for a week or so, they fade away. When I do notice these faint IR images, is it important for me to completely stop playing the game until they go away, or should I not be worrying about them so much? If I keep playing the same games, will they just keep cumulatively getting worse?


Thanks in advance for help/opinions.


----------



## Gman1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phlash420* /forum/post/13815683
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> 
> Unfortunatly I have COD4 on the 360, and for some strange reason I'm having problems with my XBLive account and can't play online right now. I think you're right though...I'll try MLB again and take it from there.




I'm glad you guys brought up COD4 and gaming- I have a question related directly to that, and I was hoping someone can give me advice.


First, I have the panny 42PX77U model, and I had NO IDEA about breaking it in at all, although I wouldn't say I had the TV on really high settings. On top of that, the sales guy who sold me the TV told me burn in was a thing of the past due to a new technology where the pixels are constantly shuffled around, etc. Don't know if he was full of BS or not.


Well, just recently (I've had the TV for about 30 days now) I've noticed that part of the HUD from COD4 (PS3) is visible on the bottom left of my screen. I can only see it in certain conditions, but it's definitely there. Other things will stay on my screen and disappear later (IR?) but this doesn't disappear even after watching regular TV for several hours.


I feel like I was lied to and ripped off, because I told the guy I would be using the TV for gaming, and he made no mention of breaking it in first, and (apparently) lied about permanent burn in. I only noticed this after playing COD, so I'm going to do other things tonight and let the TV run to see if it clears the HUD image, but if it doesn't, have I suffered permanent damage? is there any way to correct it? And more importantly, is there any way to prevent it from happening again or getting worse?


I can -technically- take the TV back under their 30 day return policy up until tomorrow, and I will if that's the best way to go.


Hoping someone can assist me.

Thanks!


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gman1976* /forum/post/13824781
> 
> 
> .. I can -technically- take the TV back under their 30 day return policy up until tomorrow, and I will if that's the best way to go.



.. take it back and get the PX80U and start 'anew', w/ added awareness of a good break-in for (at least) the first 100-150hrs.


----------



## b_scott

hell get the PZ80U, it's the same price as the PX77U.


----------



## Gman1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13824873
> 
> 
> .. take it back and get the PX80U and start 'anew', w/ added awareness of a good break-in for (at least) the first 100-150hrs.



I got mine on sale for $1199.00... that model isn't on sale, and it's $1499.00


I was hoping someone would give me an easier solution lol. Maybe I'll mess around with it and try to find the setting that is supposed to wash out the IR. In the meantime, I'll turn the contrast down a bit.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gman1976* /forum/post/13824939
> 
> 
> I was hoping someone would give me an easier solution lol. Maybe I'll mess around with it and try to find the setting that is supposed to wash out the IR. In the meantime, I'll turn the contrast down a bit.



.. don't believe there's a "wash out" feature on that model, just the pixel shifter working in the background. Some have mentioned using the 'break-in DVD' to iron-out any potential BI, something that's pretty difficult unless you really game alot. Check this thread for good contrast settings to use w/ the B-I DVD for your model;


*add: the next 200hrs could be crucial in determining whether you indeed overdid it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13440473 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13487813 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13239501 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post12706533 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post11955874


----------



## Gman1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13825090
> 
> 
> .. don't believe there's a "wash out" feature on that model, just the pixel shifter working in the background. Some have mentioned using the 'break-in DVD' to iron-out any potential BI, something that's pretty difficult unless you really game alot. Check this thread for good contrast settings to use w/ the B-I DVD for your model;
> 
> 
> *add: the next 200hrs could be crucial in determining whether you indeed overdid it.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13440473
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13487813
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post13239501
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post12706533
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post11955874



Thanks for the advice. I'm downloading the break in cd now. Will running that correct the problem if it can be corrected? Just wondering.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gman1976* /forum/post/13825334
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I'm downloading the break in cd now. Will running that correct the problem if it can be corrected? Just wondering.



.. yes, many that post here have seen success in recovering from severe IR; if 'permanent' burn-in, that could be a problem. I would run w/ contrast set down as many in the links noted. Its all a matter of balancing the phosphor's equally thus neutralizing the effect of what you see now. It may take as much as another 50-100hrs to see change. patience & good luck


----------



## booker21

I´m getting my Plasma tv on Saturday. I´ll be gaming alot... so i need to do a properly break in


So far this is what i think i should do. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I´M MISSING SOMETHING OR WHATEVER.


1)Settings at 50% or below

2)Always use Scan mode (avoid black bars)

3)don´t game for more than 1hs-2hs on the first 100hs (break in period)

4)Run the break in DVD (posted on 1st post of this thread) until i reach 100hs break

5)constantly run the Blank anti burn in from the display

6)always use the shift picture and all anti burn in features of the tv.


After passing 100hs i can slowly start using the tv as it was meant to be.. as a tv










This is ok?


btw im getting this series model Samsung:

Samsung xx34, xx44, xx54, xx64 Series Plasma Thread


42"


It´s the only plasma available on my country, the other plasmas available are really old (2004-06) btw.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/13825612
> 
> 
> .. After passing 100hs i can slowly start using the tv as it was meant to be.. as a tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is ok?
> 
> 
> btw im getting this series model Samsung:
> 
> Samsung xx34, xx44, xx54, xx64 Series Plasma Thread
> 
> 
> 42"
> 
> 
> It´s the only plasma available on my country, the other plasmas available are really old (2004-06) btw.



.. congrats booker; sounds like a good plan, you've done some homework. Alittle patience in the initial period (i believe) can be rewarding longterm. some, especially w/ certain panasonic's and pioneer's prefer a 'gradual' break-in period w/ their desired preference settings .. it takes alittle longer 'though' to enter an undeterminable, presumptive 'safe zone'; they will game during this period but i presume they're keeping track of potential dangers that might be imposed on the screen. using the 'break-in DVD' just accelerates this method abit but you still need to be mindful of 'game play' until you reach the magical ~100-150hrs and then, i would still keep an eye on it. enjoy it 'though' .. you'll know when enough is enough.







*add: check back in w/ your progress.


----------



## blackrain

I just got a Samsung 5884 last week. Upon setup, I enabled the pixel shifting features. Today, I watched a DVD for the first time. My DVD player runs a clock at the top of the screen. The movie I watched was about 90 minutes long.


The first 2 zeroes from the clock seem to have been retained in the screen.


I didn't ever think this would be an issue because I thought that IR/burn in required several hours. I am really disappointed now.


I have been running the "scrolling" and "white" programs for 3 hours straight and am still seeing the 2 zeroes. Is this temporary IR? Is this permanent burn-in? Is there anything else I can do or am I pretty much screwed?


----------



## lowpsi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blackrain* /forum/post/13827468
> 
> 
> I just got a Samsung 5884 last week. Upon setup, I enabled the pixel shifting features. Today, I watched a DVD for the first time. My DVD player runs a clock at the top of the screen. The movie I watched was about 90 minutes long.
> 
> 
> The first 2 zeroes from the clock seem to have been retained in the screen.
> 
> 
> I didn't ever think this would be an issue because I thought that IR/burn in required several hours. I am really disappointed now.
> 
> 
> I have been running the "scrolling" and "white" programs for 3 hours straight and am still seeing the 2 zeroes. Is this temporary IR? Is this permanent burin-in? Is there anything else I can do or am I pretty much screwed?



should have broke the tv in for at least 100 hours before playing stuff like that. that being said, it should go away.


----------



## David Susilo

going forward, is there any way for you to get rid of the clock displayed by your DVD player? It seems odd to me for anybody to watch a movie with clock overlay.


----------



## David Susilo

PS: where is airhostess anyway? we'd like to hear about her stance that IR and burn in are just myths. I'd like to know the method her friends use to get rid of burn-in, especially the ones from the flight info plasmas.


----------



## phlash420

I've never, ever heard of a DvD player that has a clock on the TV screen while watching movies. There's got to be a way to turn that off.


Seconly, I've found that turning on some HD channels (zoomed in) will get rid of IR fast. I've got a Panny plasma and I've never noticed any IR that lasted longer than 3 or 4 minutes. I'm still being super careful (still breaking it in - 80 hours right now). Last night I played Drakes Fortune with my game settings cranked down low (30's-40's - less than 50%). I got a phone call, and accidentally left it on the startup screen with big white letters. I had slight IR after this. Started the game up, played for 5 minutes and checked it out with a black screen.....completely gone.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13828348
> 
> 
> PS: where is airhostess anyway? we'd like to hear about her stance that IR and burn in are just myths. I'd like to know the method her friends use to get rid of burn-in, especially the ones from the flight info plasmas.



Well the IR on my 4270 *IS* fading away ,it's been two weeks ,but I can no loger read the words "on the clock" and as I last night I could hardly see the out line . To make , I had my son look (incase it was just wishful thinking ) but it is going away.


----------



## blackrain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lowpsi* /forum/post/13827481
> 
> 
> should have broke the tv in for at least 100 hours before playing stuff like that. that being said, it should go away.



I asked the Firedog tech whether I needed to do anything to break in the TV or if there was anything to avoid. He said I didn't need to do anything. So I didn't worry about it. I just tried to be aware of "long" display of images. Unfortunately, the term "long" is relative. The manual certainly doesn't explain what "long" is. I always thought (from reading this forum) that long was like 3+ hours. Apparently, that's not the case.


In the meantime, I am going to figure out how to turn off the clock or otherwise use a different DVD player.


----------



## Scotty2H

Alright, I'm sure the following question has already been answered. I have done my best to research the issue of burn in and IR, but have not found this specific answer.


I play quite a bit of videogames. Maybe 2-3 hours every couple days. However, my little brother lives with me for the summers. He can, and does, play videogames for 8, 10, 12 hours a day, at times.


Will playing games for this amount of time, with a HUD in the corner and a pixel shifter/orbiter/whatever on result in severe IR or burn in on mid->high end sets?


Thanks, and sorry about that horse.


----------



## RYU583

Hello all.....

newbie in need of some help


I recently purchased a 6010FD....i just turned it on and watched espn for like 10 minutes.....i was impressed and boxed everything together again because my stand has not arrived yet.



1. to break in this TV properly......do I have to do the 150hr dvd and then an ISF calibration? or are Dnice's settings good enough?


2. whats the longest someone has gone with a static image on one of these models with no problems?

.......i know this model has devices to prevent burn in/IR .....just wanna make sure that when i play games, that i dont overplay the TV


3. is it more dangerous to shut down the tv after you spot a ghost image than to just switch channels?


by the way....this forum is awesome

you guys really know your stuff


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYU583* /forum/post/13835264
> 
> 
> .. 1. to break in this TV properly......do I have to do the 150hr dvd and then an ISF calibration? or are Dnice's settings good enough?
> 
> 
> 2. whats the longest someone has gone with a static image on one of these models with no problems?
> 
> .......i know this model has devices to prevent burn in/IR .....just wanna make sure that when i play games, that i dont overplay the TV
> 
> 
> 3. is it more dangerous to shut down the tv after you spot a ghost image than to just switch channels?
> 
> 
> by the way....this forum is awesome
> 
> you guys really know your stuff



1. some say a break-in using the DVD and D'Nice settings (pg 1, Settings sticky) is unnecessary, just view normally using D'Nice "reference" settings (sab) & avoid extended 4:3 viewing, preferably using wide-zoom to avoid it (all-together) & black sidebars & static images. the 'break-in DVD" will accelerate the (phosphor) 'break-in' up to the 100-150hr time frame; you can use the "reference" or the "break-in" settings w/ the DVD, but "do not use" the later for anything other than the DVD. D'Nice recommends a 400hr break-in before any calibration in order for proper phosphor aging. i would use D'Nice's "reference" settings & tweak if necessary; they are pretty-much right on target.


2. A recent thread post mentioned a test conducted roughly two years ago where they tested a/r 12 plasma's and after 48hrs of displaying a permanent image, they were able to recover using 'unknown' method I don't remember. some have reported here 4-8hr stints on their plasma with some or minor IR, which quickly goes away; Pioneer's are very good in this department. mentioning "overplay the TV" .. aren't you -at All- exhausted after just 3hrs; eye movement, thumb movement, etc., i would think that would not be healthy; just wondering(?)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=794530&page=2 (post #48)


3. "i have no response to that"


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scotty2H* /forum/post/13834040
> 
> 
> Alright, I'm sure the following question has already been answered. I have done my best to research the issue of burn in and IR, but have not found this specific answer.
> 
> 
> I play quite a bit of videogames. Maybe 2-3 hours every couple days. However, my little brother lives with me for the summers. He can, and does, play videogames for 8, 10, 12 hours a day, at times.
> 
> 
> Will playing games for this amount of time, with a HUD in the corner and a pixel shifter/orbiter/whatever on result in severe IR or burn in on mid->high end sets?
> 
> 
> Thanks, and sorry about that horse.



Good chance of IR if you are talking 12 hours of one game. Especially if the next day he plays the same game again.


----------



## Akanbe

edit: Problem fixed!


----------



## Gman1976




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Scotty2H
> 
> Alright, I'm sure the following question has already been answered. I have done my best to research the issue of burn in and IR, but have not found this specific answer.
> 
> 
> I play quite a bit of videogames. Maybe 2-3 hours every couple days. However, my little brother lives with me for the summers. He can, and does, play videogames for 8, 10, 12 hours a day, at times.
> 
> 
> Will playing games for this amount of time, with a HUD in the corner and a pixel shifter/orbiter/whatever on result in severe IR or burn in on mid->high end sets?
> 
> 
> Thanks, and sorry about that horse



Playing the same game for that amount of time (especially if it has static images) is asking for trouble IMO. If you've properly broken in the TV it might be a bit more resistant, but mine seems to have permanent burn in from COD4 with a lot less play time than you describe. I'm still holding out hope that the break in CD can get rid of that image, but in the meantime I'm getting my COD fix on my 32" CRT and avoiding gaming on my plasma.


The point of the TV is enjoyment obviously, so you want to be able to use it. You just have to be careful- I would tell your brother if he's playing for that long to take a 20 minute break every couple of hours and let the TV run on a station with no black bars or logos.


----------



## leno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gman1976* /forum/post/13847715
> 
> 
> Playing the same game for that amount of time (especially if it has static images) is asking for trouble IMO. If you've properly broken in the TV it might be a bit more resistant, but mine seems to have permanent burn in from COD4 with a lot less play time than you describe. I'm still holding out hope that the break in CD can get rid of that image, but in the meantime I'm getting my COD fix on my 32" CRT and avoiding gaming on my plasma.
> 
> 
> The point of the TV is enjoyment obviously, so you want to be able to use it. You just have to be careful- I would tell your brother if he's playing for that long to take a 20 minute break every couple of hours and let the TV run on a station with no black bars or logos.



I play my videogames for 25hrs day and I dont have any problems so far.



spoldingdetailing.com


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leno* /forum/post/13850336
> 
> 
> I play my videogames for 25hrs day and I dont have any problems so far.
> 
> 
> 
> spoldingdetailing.com



He is referring to playing the exact same game, non-stop for 8 - 10 hours or so. No other content inbetween, no other games, the same game. That can lead to problems, might not, better safe then sorry.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leno* /forum/post/13850336
> 
> 
> I play my videogames for 25hrs day and I dont have any problems so far.
> 
> 
> 
> spoldingdetailing.com



I thought a day only had 24 hours in it?


----------



## Scotty2H

Thanks for the replies guys. I may have to lay some ground rules down. Or just make him play on my old tv. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## ArchAngelGabriel

I purchased an LG50PG20 recently and didn't see any image retention problems. When I first received the set I moved contrast and brightness to 40 each, and then just started watching some HD.


I didn't notice that the History Channel Logo was burned into the screen until I had the lights off (very dark) and was about 6 inches from the screen. I could make out the entire logo. However, when a picture was display, I couldn't see it at all, not even a faint outline. When sitting at my normal viewing distance (7.5 feet) I cannot see any of this burn-in, and even watching a program from 1 foot away doesn't show any of this IR. It only appears when the entire screen goes black and from a very, very short distance.


So, I guess in my case, the issue is somewhat moot. I mean, if I can't see it, should it really bother me? Probably not.


Perhaps what bothered me the most was that I had to watch several hours of HD in order to remove the burn-in affect. I mean it took a really long time to clear it out. The manual in my new LG states that the white-wash feature should be used "sparingly" and I am not sure what they mean by that. I presume the engineers know more than I do, so I will use it sparingly. But, even so, the white-wash feature didn't remove the IR from the History Channel HD logo. It just took a lot of time and viewing of other material.


Asside from that, I really enjoy the set. The picture quality is fantastic. I just hope that IR isn't a common problem with the set and I hope that after time goes by, it will become less prominant.


----------



## SCRUN68

I've had the Panny pz85U for about 2 weeks now, turned settings down, have avoided black bars and gamed only slightly.


I only started noticing IR about 3 days ago. The Playstation 3 Xbar will ghost after only a few seconds on the screen, but that fades within minutes. Menus also ghost quickly but fade out in 5 minutes or less.


However I watched some of the NBA playoffs last night on TNT and their giant scoreboard in the bottom left corner is visible on my screen now, with one caveat: it cannot be seen unless you're a few inches away from an all black screen. It doesn't show if there is any content on the screen, only on an all black screen and only at really short distances. This makes me feel less compelled to abandon ship and take it back but it did freak me out. It still isn't gone after using the white bar and a few hours worth of full screen video content.


I only watched 45 minutes tops of the game, so the fact that it happened worries me. During football season I'm known to watch 9 or more hours of football on saturdays. If a TNT scoreboard for 45 minutes causes this kind of IR now, my football watching plans are going to have to change with regards to this set.


I just hope it fades completely. On the one hand, I can't see it under most normal viewing situations so I sort of wonder if it's a huge deal at all, on the other hand I know it is there and it can happen quickly, so does that mean it could be worse in the future?


I'm not sure. I will say that all other aspects of this TV have been great though.


----------



## phlash420

I've had my px80 for about two weeks, and I've noticed IR to be disappearing more and more quickly as time goes on. I'm at the 100 hour mark, but I'm going to be careful with it for the next hundred or so just to be safe.


One question I have that I haven't seen addressed in these threads (unless I missed it) has to do with phosphor aging. I loooove movies. I will watch probably 4-6 movies per week. Most movies have the black bars...so, over time will my TV age improperly in certain spots? I mean like 5 years from now, will the place where the black bars are be even brighter than the middle? Will the middle of my screen 'age' faster, thus giving me an uneven picture a few years down the road?


So far I've only noticed some slight ghosting, and it always goes away within a few minutes. I'm probably being anal about this, but this is my first expensive TV and I want to be as careful as possible and I want to get as much life out of this bad boy as I possibly can.


I got the DVD break-in disc and I'm going to run it 4-5 hours per day for the next few weeks to further the break-in process.


Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## flexy123

Guys,


getting one of the new "3D Ready" 50" plasmas by Samsung burn-in worries me a lot.

Especially since i am hardcore gamer - and i am NOT talking about 4-5hrs/day. I am talking about mega-sessions playing WoW.


I got the "burn-in" DVD and plan to break-in the plasma keeping PC gaming at a minimum first. I just got a tweak how to set the UI in "World of Warcraft" to transparent....so i can set this to any desired opacity/transparency.


If i set the HUD/UI so they're barely visible...i am basically playing full screen without any significant static elements...from that point of view if i were to play hours and hours of WoW without the HUD elements...wouldnt it be the same as breaking it in?


The plasma i am getting also has pixel shift/horizontal and vertical which i will use...so wish me luck i wont get any big IR.


G.


----------



## flexy123

The DVD/VCD is a good idea - but i am wondering if there is a screen-saver or program doing the same as the DVD.

This would be way better - especially the screen saver if it would "swipe" the TV (connected to the PC) as soon as you're idle for a few minutes.


maybe i can make one myself.


The other question is...how do you know that the patterns and transitions used on the DVD are the optimum once for breaking-in a plasma?


Is the DVD also useable for removing IR....or is it merely a "breaking in" DVD?


----------



## b_scott

for Kuros, i'm wondering if anyone who advocates the 200 hour burn in peroid has ever actually had problems with IR on them, or if they are just being paranoid through word of mouth?


because I've had my set about a week with no break in and average viewing time - i watched a 2 hour 2.35 aspect movie and when it was over i checked 2 inches away from the screen and i could see no evidence of IR at all.


----------



## ZBoomer

Same deal with my Pioneer 6010FD; had it since last Friday, and I've never seen a hint of any IR on anything at all.


But just due to paranoia I'm running the break-in DVD anyway.


----------



## Mitmonk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SCRUN68* /forum/post/13856796
> 
> 
> I've had the Panny pz85U for about 2 weeks now, turned settings down, have avoided black bars and gamed only slightly.
> 
> 
> I only started noticing IR about 3 days ago. The Playstation 3 Xbar will ghost after only a few seconds on the screen, but that fades within minutes. Menus also ghost quickly but fade out in 5 minutes or less.
> 
> 
> However I watched some of the NBA playoffs last night on TNT and their giant scoreboard in the bottom left corner is visible on my screen now, with one caveat: it cannot be seen unless you're a few inches away from an all black screen. It doesn't show if there is any content on the screen, only on an all black screen and only at really short distances. This makes me feel less compelled to abandon ship and take it back but it did freak me out. It still isn't gone after using the white bar and a few hours worth of full screen video content.
> 
> 
> I only watched 45 minutes tops of the game, so the fact that it happened worries me. During football season I'm known to watch 9 or more hours of football on saturdays. If a TNT scoreboard for 45 minutes causes this kind of IR now, my football watching plans are going to have to change with regards to this set.
> 
> 
> I just hope it fades completely. On the one hand, I can't see it under most normal viewing situations so I sort of wonder if it's a huge deal at all, on the other hand I know it is there and it can happen quickly, so does that mean it could be worse in the future?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. I will say that all other aspects of this TV have been great though.



I have the Samsung PNA550 and also have the same concerns. I've had my set for two weeks and have broken it by watching full screen HD Movies/TV shows with settings at about 50%. I have also gamed slightly, and any IR visible IR on an all black screen has disappeared in seconds/minutes.


However, since I know I am around 130 viewing hours or so I decided to adjust the contrast closer to my gaming tastes. Two nights ago with the new settings I play Call of Duty 4 for three 45 minute (roughly) sessions which resulted in the COD hud visible on an all black screen. It took several hours of full screen content to rid the IR, so naturally I am worried about gaming or watching anything with static images in the future and possible burn in.


Since the hud was faintly visible on an all black when EXTREMELY close to the screen I wanted to ask long time plasma owners: does this even matter? At what point should visible IR be a concern for the possibility of burn in? Does this faint image indicate I have to be careful with burn in (since it lasted so long) and should I worry about completely washing away the faint image before playing the game again?


I appreciate anyone's help


----------



## tts42572

I've ordered a Panny 50PZ800....Wasn't really concerned about IR/Burn-in since my understanding was that this problem had bee nfixed in the newer plasmas.


However, reading this thread has led me to re-think. I totally like plasma PQ alot better than LCD's....but I don't know if I could deal with this burn-in/IR issue....


Been deabting about getting the break-in DVD...would have to buy it since I don't have a DVD burner.....doesn't seem like doing this should be necessary but I'm willing to if it will help the TV out....


I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.


So do people really think running the break-in DVD makes that much of a difference?


Also, do you have to just run the break-in DVD only when you first get the TV? Or could you just watch TV normally (stretched, of course) and then play the break-in DVD when not actually watching TV like during the day or overnight?


----------



## ZBoomer

You don't have to have the DVD; just avoid static images for a long time the first 100-200 hours, and even that may be overkill, its just to be on the safe side.


Watch TV in full-screen mode with no black bars, it will "break in" on it's own without the DVD, it just speeds up the process.


Once you do that you really have to abuse a current plasma to get true burn-in. You can get IR, but that will go away. Don't be scared away from Plasma, they just are too good to let that happen.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/13864664
> 
> 
> for Kuros, i'm wondering if anyone who advocates the 200 hour burn in peroid has ever actually had problems with IR on them, or if they are just being paranoid through word of mouth?
> 
> 
> because I've had my set about a week with no break in and average viewing time - i watched a 2 hour 2.35 aspect movie and when it was over i checked 2 inches away from the screen and i could see no evidence of IR at all.



Follow your owners manual.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tts42572* /forum/post/13865938
> 
> 
> I've ordered a Panny 50PZ800....Wasn't really concerned about IR/Burn-in since my understanding was that this problem had bee nfixed in the newer plasmas.
> 
> 
> However, reading this thread has led me to re-think. I totally like plasma PQ alot better than LCD's....but I don't know if I could deal with this burn-in/IR issue....
> 
> 
> Been deabting about getting the break-in DVD...would have to buy it since I don't have a DVD burner.....doesn't seem like doing this should be necessary but I'm willing to if it will help the TV out....
> 
> 
> I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.
> 
> 
> So do people really think running the break-in DVD makes that much of a difference?
> 
> 
> Also, do you have to just run the break-in DVD only when you first get the TV? Or could you just watch TV normally (stretched, of course) and then play the break-in DVD when not actually watching TV like during the day or overnight?



Disregard what is said on this forum regarding break-in and just follow your owners manual. The manufacturer designed and manufactured your set, they know what is best. You follow your owners manual for your vehicle don't you?


----------



## tts42572

Thanks for the reminder.


I think part of the problem is that I just bought a PS3...bought it mainly for blu-ray, but I'll also game a little bit (probably 4-5 hours per week max).


Being that I haven't actually received my 50PZ800U yet, I think I'm just second guessing myself.....sorta like your wedding day when you wonder if you made the right decision










Basically for me, the only attractive property of LCD's is the the fact you don't need to worry about IR/burn-in...and can watch non-full screen content with black bars all day and not have to worry.


However, I give the edge to plasma in EVERY other category. I like every aspect of a plasma picture better...and glare is no issue for me. So it comes down to a better picture all the time....and having to exercise a little care....or a picture I don't like as much...but would be able to use freely without worry.


I'll probably stick with my first choice.....but I'll probably worry about IR/burn-in for awhile. However, when scanning the burn-in/IR threads, 90% of the posts are "worrying" about burn-in/IR and not actual cases of it. Seems like there are a few instances here and there of some permanent IR....but seems to be the exception.


Still up in the air about buying the break-in DVD. Doesn't really seem necessary but probably wouldn't hurt to run it a bit during the first 100 hours. Don't see myself running it exclusivley though....I'll probably mix it in when I'm not watching TV.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/13867404
> 
> 
> You don't have to have the DVD; just avoid static images for a long time the first 100-200 hours, and even that may be overkill, its just to be on the safe side.
> 
> 
> Watch TV in full-screen mode with no black bars, it will "break in" on it's own without the DVD, it just speeds up the process.
> 
> 
> Once you do that you really have to abuse a current plasma to get true burn-in. You can get IR, but that will go away. Don't be scared away from Plasma, they just are too good to let that happen.


----------



## MagicRat75




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tts42572* /forum/post/13865938
> 
> 
> I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.



I just got a new plasma, and though I've never "broken-in" my other two (and have never had IR or burn-in), I figured it wouldn't hurt this time around because this set will be seeing a bit of gaming. Since you have a PS3, simply download the break-in .jpg's, transfer them to your PS3 and then run a slideshow. It does the same thing as the DVD. I run mine whenever the set is not being used for TV, movies or gaming, shutting it off for a couple hours every day to cool down.


----------



## flexy123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MagicRat75* /forum/post/13869814
> 
> 
> I just got a new plasma, and though I've never "broken-in" my other two (and have never had IR or burn-in), I figured it wouldn't hurt this time around because this set will be seeing a bit of gaming. Since you have a PS3, simply download the break-in .jpg's, transfer them to your PS3 and then run a slideshow. It does the same thing as the DVD. I run mine whenever the set is not being used for TV, movies or gaming, shutting it off for a couple hours every day to cool down.



Please, please...if you make a reference to downloadable tools/jpegs....give us a link also.


Thanks


----------



## Sandman209

Image retention is an issue with a solution, it does not require a technician or any special fixes. It goes away by watching other stuff for a few minutes. When I play game for a long time if I get worried about image retention I can flip channels to a regular tv show for a few minutes. The issues with LCD's: clouding, flashlights, motion blur, haze, etc. are all problems that the consumer cannot fix.


----------



## RickRock

what is IR and how is it different than burn-in?


----------



## David Susilo

IR = nonpermanent burn-in, so to speak.


----------



## ZBoomer

Like he said, when people say "IR" they usually mean a temporary image retention on the screen, that can be removed by watching full-screen material, or running the TV's IR removal routine.


"Burn in" is more severe, and cannot be removed. The phosphors have unevenly aged to a degree where you see a permanent change. Obviously this is much worse, and is not covered by warranty.


----------



## mchalebk

I've been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months. I'm not crazy about some of the issues that LCDs have, but I am very concerned with burn-in. I've got a 6-year old CRT-based RPTV that has burn-in from watching 4:3 material (and, no, I did not have the set in "torch" mode). I know a lot of people say that burn-in is not really a concern with plasma anymore, but I refuse to stretch old movies (I'm sorry, but Sydney Greenstreet is already fat enough in Casablanca). Furthermore, it's apparent as I read through the various threads in the Plasma forum, burn-in is a very popular (unpopular?) topic.


I can't say what percentage of 4:3 material I'll be watching, but let's guess and say it's 33%. Should I be considering a plasma set? it seems to me that burn-in is the #1 concern of plasma owners and potential buyers.


By the way, games are not an issue (at least for now).


----------



## b_scott

if you're considering a Pioneer, burn in is almost non-existent unless you're using it for CNN 24/7.


Panasonic is really good about it now too, i think almost the extent that Pio is.


point being, you get what you pay for. if you're looking at low-end stuff, it might be a concern. anything decent and it's not a problem.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13901089
> 
> 
> I've been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months. I'm not crazy about some of the issues that LCDs have, but I am very concerned with burn-in. I've got a 6-year old CRT-based RPTV that has burn-in from watching 4:3 material (and, no, I did not have the set in "torch" mode). I know a lot of people say that burn-in is not really a concern with plasma anymore, but I refuse to stretch old movies (I'm sorry, but Sydney Greenstreet is already fat enough in Casablanca). Furthermore, it's apparent as I read through the various threads in the Plasma forum, burn-in is a very popular (unpopular?) topic.
> 
> 
> I can't say what percentage of 4:3 material I'll be watching, but let's guess and say it's 33%. Should I be considering a plasma set? it seems to me that burn-in is the #1 concern of plasma owners and potential buyers.
> 
> 
> By the way, games are not an issue (at least for now).



That is a lot of content (%) that will be 4:3. You will not get IR or burn in but you WILL get uneven phosphor wear, regardless of which plasma set you use. At that high of a %, you will eventually start seeing in shows/movies that are full screen a difference in light colors on the sides, especially white. If 33% of your viewing is going to be 4:3 content you are talking a third of everything you watch. That is pretty high and kind of defeats the purpose of a widescreen TV (if you refuse to stretch what you are watching).


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13901473
> 
> 
> That is a lot of content (%) that will be 4:3. You will not get IR or burn in but you WILL get uneven phosphor wear, regardless of which plasma set you use. At that high of a %, you will eventually start seeing in shows/movies that are full screen a difference in light colors on the sides, especially white. If 33% of your viewing is going to be 4:3 content you are talking a third of everything you watch. That is pretty high and kind of defeats the purpose of a widescreen TV (if you refuse to stretch what you are watching).



Two things:


1. Isn't "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" the same thing?


2. As for defeating the purpose of getting a widescreen TV, watching 33% 4:3 material means watching 67% widescreen material. No TV fits all aspect ratio material; the world is moving more and more widescreen; what other kind of TV should we buy?


My wife and I mainly watch DVDs. Some are widescreen, some are not. We watch virtually all material in OAR. We will undoubtedly transition to Blu-ray at some time, but haven't yet. We'd like to go flat panel (as in "hang on the wall"). If 33% of what we watch is too much to prevent burn-in, why are people stating that burn-in isn't really a problem any more with plasma sets?


----------



## Moonbloodsflow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13901685
> 
> 
> Two things:
> 
> 1. Isn't "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" the same thing?



He just means that the areas with the bars are going to age(wear) differently the the area that is displaying the image due to watching 4:3 content with bars on the side. And no I don't think "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" are the same. If you work certain areas harder than other's, those areas are going to get worn out. Burn-in is permanent "image retention".


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moonbloodsflow* /forum/post/13902363
> 
> 
> He just means that the areas with the bars are going to age(wear) differently the the area that is displaying the image due to watching 4:3 content with bars on the side. And no I don't think "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" are the same. If you work certain areas harder than other's, those areas are going to get worn out. Burn-in is permanent "image retention".



This seems like a semantic argument. Isn't the type of burn-in that is caused by a station logo a simple case of extreme uneven phosphor wear? The people at PlasmaSaver.com agree with my definition (the following is from: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html): 



> Quote:
> The most common type of burn-in is the result of watching 4:3 video with black bars on both sides on a 16:9 screen.



Regardless, even if the terms aren't completely equivalent, isn't that splitting hairs? Is there a percentage of viewing 4:3 material that is safe for a modern plasma TV? Less than 5%? Less than 10%? Less than 20%?


----------



## Moonbloodsflow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13902628
> 
> 
> This seems like a semantic argument. Isn't the type of burn-in that is caused by a station logo a simple case of extreme uneven phosphor wear? The people at PlasmaSaver.com agree with my definition (the following is from: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, even if the terms aren't completely equivalent, isn't that splitting hairs? Is there a percentage of viewing 4:3 material that is safe for a modern plasma TV? Less than 5%? Less than 10%? Less than 20%?



I haven't owned a plasma long enough to know truly what's safe and what's not for X amount of time. Obviously it's kind of a given that phosphor wear= burn in in the most general sense, since phosphor wear is what causes burn-in. But it's not the type of burn-in that most people are afraid of. There's no point in arguing about terminology b/c it's not going to change the nature of the technology. Obviously different terminology means different things to different people. If I may use your words, burn-in=phosphor wear(which is true in general), then you have burn-in the very second you first fire up your television. It's obviously not as literal it may sound. I think it's better phrased as, burn-in is a result of phosphor wear but some phosphor wear doesn't mean you have anything literally burnt in.


If a large part of your viewing is 4:3 content, then maybe a plasma television isn't for you. LCD and Plasma both have their pro's and con's, but for me plasma televisions have way more pro's than con's in comparison to LCD's. How many people do you see posting that they have burn-in on their plasma anymore? It's b/c it's not a problem unless you completely abuse your T.V., but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be careful.


I guess if I was unwilling to compromise on 4:3 content 100% of the time, during 33% of my viewing time, I'd start looking elsewhere. Maybe, myself and other plasma owners, are a little bit too paranoid? I don't know but that is my recommendation.


----------



## mchalebk

That's the kind of feedback I'm interested in.


When I researched my present TV over six years ago, burn-in from 4:3 material was a major concern (and they most certainly called it burn-in back then). There was a lot of talk about how the purpose of the gray bars was to prevent uneven burn-in (even burn-in good, uneven burn-in bad). The common wisdom was that, if your contrast wasn't set too high and you varied the material you were watching, this wouldn't really be a concern. However, after five+ years, it became apparent that I had 4:3 burn-in (technically the center of the screen was more burned in than the sides).


In my mind, if you have to watch most of your 4:3 material stretched, you're compromising your viewing habits to fit your TV. I would rather compromise my TV to fit my viewing habits. I refuse to stretch classic movies. I will stretch some 4:3 TV, but I prefer not to.


I doubt we would really watch 33% 4:3 material (probably more like 10-20%), but my point is I don't want to have to worry about it. I can hear my wife now: "We paid all this money for this fancy, dancy TV and now we have to worry about how we watch it?"!


I'll see what others have to say, but I suspect I'll be looking for an LCD. The problem is I'm not sure that LCDs are quite there yet. I may just wait another year and let them work out the motion issues (though it sounds like they're getting close).


----------



## Darcy Hunter




> Quote:
> How many people do you see posting that they have burn-in on their plasma anymore? It's b/c it's not a problem unless you completely abuse your T.V., but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be careful.



I've owned a plasma for just under a year, and even though my particular model is a little more prone to IR than the Pioneers and Pannys (mine is a Hitachi), I have yet to have any IR last more than a few minutes. That isn't to say that burn-in is not a possibility. In this very thread I've seen posts form people who's volume control and internal menu screens have resulted in IR that had lasted days. These people have said that their sets were not in "torch-mode" and that they did not leave any static images on screen for any length of time.


It seems that there are two types of stories in this thread:

ONE: People having marathon video gaming sessions resulting in little to no IR, and...


TWO: people watching a couple hours of something with a static logo or running ticker (or a fricking volume control) that has resulted in IR lasting days.


I guess the truth is in the middle. If you own a plasma, you still have to be careful but not paranoid. If you want to use your display primarily for video games/computer monitor/4x3 material, you might as well just get an LCD.


----------



## real_khaled

Dear all,


I am new to this forum, my name is Khaled and I am planning to buy a plasma TV LG 42" however I am concerned about burn-in so my main question is;


*Does watching channels with "logos"/playing games using Play station for example affect the TV screen?


Are Plasma TVs designed for DVD movies only and not for video games?



Regards,

Khaled


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13902628
> 
> 
> This seems like a semantic argument. Isn't the type of burn-in that is caused by a station logo a simple case of extreme uneven phosphor wear? The people at PlasmaSaver.com agree with my definition (the following is from: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, even if the terms aren't completely equivalent, isn't that splitting hairs? Is there a percentage of viewing 4:3 material that is safe for a modern plasma TV? Less than 5%? Less than 10%? Less than 20%?



Uneven phospor wear is going to cause areas of your TV to display lighter or darker depending on the wear. Burn in means that an area of your TV will display the same color and image regardless of what is on the TV (i.e. a station logo). You are not "burning in" the side bars, nothing is being displayed there, they are OFF. This causes uneven wear. Burn in causes one (or multiple colors) to be ON for so long, in the same spot, that you will see that color on all screens.


As for what kind of TV to get, I did not mean to imply you buy a different kind of TV, I was implying that you should stretch your material then to fit your screen. Some TVs have a very, very good stretch mode, some are horrible.


----------



## RickRock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *real_khaled* /forum/post/13905958
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> 
> I am new to this forum, my name is Khaled and I am planning to buy a plasma TV LG 42" however I am concerned about burn-in so my main question is;
> 
> 
> *Does watching channels with "logos"/playing games using Play station for example affect the TV screen?
> 
> 
> Are Plasma TVs designed for DVD movies only and not for video games?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Khaled



So far Ive played a few hours straight of Devl May Cry 4 on my PS3, I havent had any problems yet. I am still in my break in period so I do run the disk for 3-4 hours a day.


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> I was implying that you should stretch your material then to fit your screen. Some TVs have a very, very good stretch mode, some are horrible.



Stretching classic movies is not an option for most people who love film (and my Toshiba has a pretty good stretch mode). It is almost as bad as watching pan 'n' scan on a 4:3 set. To me, stretching 4:3 material to fill a widescreen TV is saying the TV is more important than what you're watching; it's like saying the canvas, paint and frame are more important than the painting. If you have to stretch classic movies like Casablanca and Miracle on 34th Street to keep from damaging your TV, than I say that the technology for that TV is inadequate.


Of course, LCD TVs have their own set of issues, so I'm not sure where this leaves me. I may buy later this year, I may decide to wait for 1 or 2 more generations.


----------



## b_scott

i agree.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13906207
> 
> 
> Uneven phospor wear is going to cause areas of your TV to display lighter or darker depending on the wear. Burn in means that an area of your TV will display the same color and image regardless of what is on the TV (i.e. a station logo). You are not "burning in" the side bars, nothing is being displayed there, they are OFF. This causes uneven wear. Burn in causes one (or multiple colors) to be ON for so long, in the same spot, that you will see that color on all screens.



What? Where did you get this information? This is not what I've read on the subject.


Cheers


----------



## tts42572

How many times can you possibly want to watch these movies ? Heck....maybe you should just get a black and white TV as well if you want to view the classics as they were meant to be seen










Not trying to bust on you...but just think HDTV's are mainly meant for HD content. Personally, I have a nice 32 inch CRT in our basement where I watch 4:3 content. We use the HDTV for prime-time viewing, movies and gaming. I really don't care for stretched 4:3 content in many cases either....but I've found I'm really not watching much of it these days anyhow. And I'm guessing I'll watch even less a few years from now.


I'd say if you are really that concerned, then save yourself the worry and go LCD since you won't really be able to enjoy the plasma with that fear in the back of your head. But if you could make other arrangements for your classic viewing, I think plasma offers better PQ for HD content in many cases.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13906351
> 
> 
> Stretching classic movies is not an option for most people who love film (and my Toshiba has a pretty good stretch mode). It is almost as bad as watching pan 'n' scan on a 4:3 set. To me, stretching 4:3 material to fill a widescreen TV is saying the TV is more important than what you're watching; it's like saying the canvas, paint and frame are more important than the painting. If you have to stretch classic movies like Casablanca and Miracle on 34th Street to keep from damaging your TV, than I say that the technology for that TV is inadequate.
> 
> 
> Of course, LCD TVs have their own set of issues, so I'm not sure where this leaves me. I may buy later this year, I may decide to wait for 1 or 2 more generations.


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> How many times can you possibly want to watch these movies ?



Do you know how many great films were produced before movies went widescreen? I am a movie lover. I like to watch movies in the proper aspect ratio. In my mind, it is ludicrous to suggest that I take a great work of art such as Casablanca and distort it just because the display hardware isn't what it should be.



> Quote:
> but just think HDTV's are mainly meant for HD content.



I assume you mean widescreen HD content when you say that, because there are Blu-ray/HD-DVD discs of 1.33:1 movies. Anyway, this is just not true. HDTVs are the new standard for television. It is designed to be backward compatible with all previous formats. They have composite (red/white/yellow) inputs. How much HD content can you watch through those? In a few years, HDTVs will be all that you can buy in a size larger than 30". Does that mean we should quit watching 1.33:1 content? Does that mean we have to desecrate (stretch) art to enjoy it? For that matter, should all content completely fill the screen? Do we need to get rid of those pesky black bars on 2.35:1 movies?


I have been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months now. I have gone back and forth as to whether I should buy an LCD, consider a plasma or just wait a while. I have read so many comments about what a great image plasma delivers and about how immature LCD technology is when it comes to HDTV. However, it seems like the plasma world thinks that I should think nothing of distorting classic film art because the technology of their TV has a flaw that they pretend isn't a big deal.


I apologize if it seems I'm getting a little worked up over this, but the attitude that widescreen TVs are only about widescreen material astounds me. Movies come in many shapes and sizes. TVs only come in two, and that will soon change. The TV has to be able to adapt to the material. You should not have to compromise your viewing experience because of shortcomings in the design of display hardware.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13907709
> 
> 
> Do you know how many great films were produced before movies went widescreen? I am a movie lover. I like to watch movies in the proper aspect ratio. In my mind, it is ludicrous to suggest that I take a great work of art such as Casablanca and distort it just because the display hardware isn't what it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you mean widescreen HD content when you say that, because there are Blu-ray/HD-DVD discs of 1.33:1 movies. Anyway, this is just not true. HDTVs are the new standard for television. It is designed to be backward compatible with all previous formats. They have composite (red/white/yellow) inputs. How much HD content can you watch through those? In a few years, HDTVs will be all that you can buy in a size larger than 30". Does that mean we should quit watching 1.33:1 content? Does that mean we have to desecrate (stretch) art to enjoy it? For that matter, should all content completely fill the screen? Do we need to get rid of those pesky black bars on 2.35:1 movies?
> 
> 
> I have been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months now. I have gone back and forth as to whether I should buy an LCD, consider a plasma or just wait a while. I have read so many comments about what a great image plasma delivers and about how immature LCD technology is when it comes to HDTV. However, it seems like the plasma world thinks that I should think nothing of distorting classic film art because the technology of their TV has a flaw that they pretend isn't a big deal.
> 
> 
> I apologize if it seems I'm getting a little worked up over this, but the attitude that widescreen TVs are only about widescreen material astounds me. Movies come in many shapes and sizes. TVs only come in two, and that will soon change. The TV has to be able to adapt to the material. You should not have to compromise your viewing experience because of shortcomings in the design of display hardware.



.. you're in the wrong Forum if everytime you crank-up the plasma & burn-in on 4:3 films/broadcast TV is a concern; pick out the best you can discern from the LCD side and be happy. Besides classic Tarzan, there shouldn't be much of a motion/studder issue.


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13908018
> 
> 
> .. you're in the wrong Forum if everytime you crank-up the plasma & burn-in on 4:3 films/broadcast TV is a concern; pick out the best you can discern from the LCD side and be happy. Besides classic Tarzan, there shouldn't be much of a motion/studder issue.



I was in the right forum. I have read many articles and threads where people claim that burn-in (or uneven phosphor wear) is not really an issue anymore with plasma TVs. It seemed to me that this forum was the right place to find out if this is true.


What I found is that it is indeed a real issue if you want to watch more than a nominal amount of 4:3 material.


It's not like I watch 4:3 material all the time. My wife and I watch plenty of modern movies. And we were refusing to watch pan 'n' scan movies on our old 26" 4x3 TV, the same way we refuse to watch stretched images of 1.33:1 films now. However, we watch enough 4:3 material that my present TV (CRT-based RPTV) has uneven phosphor wear from the gray bars and I don't want to have to worry about it with my next one. That's why I'm in this forum. To figure this out.


It looks like I got my answer, which is that plasma is only a viable option if you watch mostly 16x9 material, or you don't plan to own the TV long enough for the uneven phosphor wear to become an issue. Neither of these will work for me, so I believe I have my answer.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/13906990
> 
> 
> What? Where did you get this information? This is not what I've read on the subject.
> 
> 
> Cheers



On this forum.


This assuming the side bars are set to black, i.e. off. Not grey. If they are grey (or anything else other then black) yes you will get burn in/IR.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13909369
> 
> 
> On this forum.
> 
> 
> This assuming the side bars are set to black, i.e. off. Not grey. If they are grey (or anything else other then black) yes you will get burn in/IR.



Sorry, I thought you said that uneven wear and burn-in are not related.


----------



## tts42572

Personally, I think it's basically impossible for anybody to say how 2008 plasmas are going to hold up 5 years from now....and exactly how much of an issue uneven wear/burn-in might be.


I think it's probably pretty logical to think it's improved alot since 5 years ago....and probably isn't nearly the problem that it used to be. But as a plasma owner, it's still a concern in the back of my head and I really don't want to take chances with it.


Not sure the answer is as cut and dry as you might want it.


The one answer I am sure of though is that LCD ALWAYS has motion problems, virtually with every single LCD with certain content.


So for me, I decided I'd take my chances and use a little caution with a plasma rather than have an LCD that I knew for a fact I was going to be bothered with the picture with issues like blurring, ghosting, uneven lighting ,etc. Those are issues you know you'll get for sure.


So I really think you have trade-offs with either technology. With LCD, you might get a little better feeling about being able to watch any type of content, but you also get other problems with the picture that can't really be controlled. Or with plasma, you can control your viewing and have better PQ.


I opted for the technology that I could control more easily. Sure, I might have to sacrifice a little bit on some aspect ratios, but at least I've got a nice, rich picture without blurred edges all the time.


Point is, there are trade-offs with both technologies.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13908994
> 
> 
> I was in the right forum. I have read many articles and threads where people claim that burn-in (or uneven phosphor wear) is not really an issue anymore with plasma TVs. It seemed to me that this forum was the right place to find out if this is true.
> 
> 
> What I found is that it is indeed a real issue if you want to watch more than a nominal amount of 4:3 material.
> 
> 
> It's not like I watch 4:3 material all the time. My wife and I watch plenty of modern movies. And we were refusing to watch pan 'n' scan movies on our old 26" 4x3 TV, the same way we refuse to watch stretched images of 1.33:1 films now. However, we watch enough 4:3 material that my present TV (CRT-based RPTV) has uneven phosphor wear from the gray bars and I don't want to have to worry about it with my next one. That's why I'm in this forum. To figure this out.
> 
> 
> It looks like I got my answer, which is that plasma is only a viable option if you watch mostly 16x9 material, or you don't plan to own the TV long enough for the uneven phosphor wear to become an issue. Neither of these will work for me, so I believe I have my answer.


----------



## tonyptony




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13909369
> 
> 
> On this forum.
> 
> 
> This assuming the side bars are set to black, i.e. off. Not grey. If they are grey (or anything else other then black) yes you will get burn in/IR.



William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonyptony* /forum/post/13911468
> 
> 
> William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.



.. the 1150hd defaults as grey out of the box, so i'm sure that's where it should remain; you can go into the service menu and change to black, but probably shouldn't.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonyptony* /forum/post/13911468
> 
> 
> William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.



same here, i think something is missing .


i may get a Plasma Samsung soon, i´m looking for teh recommend view settings i read some user NICE or something but i can´t find it.

Anyone?


----------



## tts42572

My understanding is that using grey sidebars helps prevent uneven wear/burn-in since the phosphors need to "fire"....I think that is the whole point of the grey sidebars. Set them to grey and it's almost like your using the whole screen.


When they are set to black, you aren't using the phosphors so that causes the uneven aging.


Personally, I generally like stretching. Kinda get used to it after awhile and I generally just hate seeing "blank" real estate on the screen.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13911717
> 
> 
> .. the 1150hd defaults as grey out of the box, so i'm sure that's where it should remain; you can go into the service menu and change to black, but probably shouldn't.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/13901187
> 
> 
> if you're considering a Pioneer, burn in is almost non-existent unless you're using it for CNN 24/7.
> 
> 
> Panasonic is really good about it now too, i think almost the extent that Pio is.
> 
> 
> point being, you get what you pay for. if you're looking at low-end stuff, it might be a concern. anything decent and it's not a problem.



WRONG! I have a Pioneer 4270 that I posted here and has bURN iN , oops I mean IR (but it hasn't gone away after 3 weeks) oh and by the way mine is in the shop for the second time in 14 months









So with the Pio you get the best in PQ , but it's still man made and anything can happen


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonyptony* /forum/post/13911468
> 
> 
> William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.



That is the catch. The grey bars definitely help big time to prevent uneven phosphor wear. But then you run the risk of IR with grey bars.


If you use black, you don't get IR but then you suffer from uneven wear.


Personally I prefer the grey as the lesser of two evils because I have no fears of IR on my set. However, the grey bars are distracting so I just use the stretch mode for anything. However, with blu-ray, HD-DVDs, and HD programming what I have to stretch is getting less and less.


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> The one answer I am sure of though is that LCD ALWAYS has motion problems, virtually with every single LCD with certain content.
> 
> 
> So for me, I decided I'd take my chances and use a little caution with a plasma rather than have an LCD that I knew for a fact I was going to be bothered with the picture with issues like blurring, ghosting, uneven lighting ,etc. Those are issues you know you'll get for sure.



LCD sets have made immense strides, so I'm not sure that this is a true statement with some of the latest sets. I've been doing a lot of research on this, but I admit it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm actually comparing sets. It seems like a lot of these typical LCD issues are not much of a problem with some of the latest designs. However, if I find that they haven't dealt with the motion issues well enough for my taste, I'll probably just live with my present TV for another year.


----------



## mchalebk

And, yes, the purpose of the gray (vs. black) bars is to attempt to even out the phosphor wear while watching 4x3 material. My RPTV uses the gray bars. They may have delayed the process somewhat, but I did finally end up with noticeable uneven phosphor wear. I'm sure it would have been worse with black bars, but the gray bars did not prevent it.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonyptony* /forum/post/13911468
> 
> 
> William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.



Follow your owners manual. The manual for my Pio 5080 says use gray bars when not watching full screen content to prevent I/R. I can hardly believe they would knowingly print false info.


----------



## tts42572

The only sets I really looked at for LCD's were the 120HZ Sammy and 120HZ Sony XBR4. Still saw the motion problems on those sets.


Didn't really notice it much in the stores initially because they generally seem to have those sets running blu-ray feeds. But once I was able to see them running "normal" TV feeds in some more controlled environments, I was totally unimpressed.


Don't get me wrong....I really, really wanted an LCD set because I also did not like the idea of worrying about stretching all the time and/or worrying about burn-in.


But I just couldn't convince myself to pull the trigger as I continually found myself liking the plasma pictures better and finding that plasmas were alot cheaper as the Sammy and Sony 52 inch 120HZ sets were going to run me about $700 more than the 50 inch plasma I settled on.


But I'm a heavy sports watcher...so maybe I was just paying more attention to it than you might and LCD might suit you just fine if you're really not too picky about the motion.


So I watch HD as much as possible and stetch what I can. Forunately, also have a 32 inch CRT in the basement that I can watch SD and 4:3 content on if I choose to.....so I sorta feel like I'm able to enjoy the best of both worlds.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13914238
> 
> 
> LCD sets have made immense strides, so I'm not sure that this is a true statement with some of the latest sets. I've been doing a lot of research on this, but I admit it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm actually comparing sets. It seems like a lot of these typical LCD issues are not much of a problem with some of the latest designs. However, if I find that they haven't dealt with the motion issues well enough for my taste, I'll probably just live with my presnt TV for another year.


----------



## b_scott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tts42572* /forum/post/13915100
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong....I really, really wanted an LCD set because I also did not like the idea of worrying about stretching all the time



i'm confused. how does an LCD set stretch SD any less than a plasma?


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/13915118
> 
> 
> i'm confused. how does an LCD set stretch SD any less than a plasma?



They don't. It's just that you don't have to worry about burn-in on LCD TVs, so you don't have to stretch 4:3 content.


----------



## b_scott

oh sorry i misread that.


burn-in is really a non-issue anymore. temporary image rentention yes, but that goes away really quick. i wouldn't make that a defining factor of a purchase, and if you go the Pio route there is basically no burn in and not really any IR either.


what'd you get, a 50" Panny?


----------



## mchalebk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/13915700
> 
> 
> burn-in is really a non-issue anymore. temporary image rentention yes, but that goes away really quick. i wouldn't make that a defining factor of a purchase, and if you go the Pio route there is basically no burn in and not really any IR either.



I came to this thread a few days ago trying to find out if I should consider a plasma if I watch a fair amount of 4:3 material (I threw out a number of 33%, though it's probably less than that). It became obvious from the replies that, unless you stretch your 4:3 material or watch very little of it, you do have to be worried about burn-in (uneven phosphor wear). It seems that most plasma owners either don't watch 4:3 material or stretch it.


So, yes, it's still very much an issue. I refuse to stretch most 4:3 material and I watch a fair amount of it, so it looks like an LCD for me.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13915779
> 
> 
> I came to this thread a few days ago trying to find out if I should consider a plasma if I watch a fair amount of 4:3 material (I threw out a number of 33%, though it's probably less than that). It became obvious from the replies that, unless you stretch your 4:3 material or watch very little of it, you do have to be worried about burn-in (uneven phosphor wear). It seems that most plasma owners either don't watch 4:3 material or stretch it.
> 
> 
> So, yes, it's still very much an issue. I refuse to stretch most 4:3 material and I watch a fair amount of it, so it looks like an LCD for me.



I agree LCD would be better . I have a 4270 Pio and with 2000 hours ( always looked out for Burn-In , oh sorry IR ) I GOT IT by watching 3-4 hours of the NFL draft . THE BAD THING IS THE LOGO is in the upper right hand corner of my set 2"x4" with the words on the clock . Thought after 2000 hours I would be imune , but I guessed wrong . I also have my TV back in the shop ,it's 2 months out of warranty ,but Pioneer will cover the repair . So what I am saying is "Plasma's" you still have to be careful , but when I purchase again (50+ size) I am 99% sure it will be a PIO . Don't like the IR ,but love the PQ. I have been viewing my Sharp Aquos and it's nice ,but for HD you need a PLASMA!!!!!!!!!


----------



## b_scott

i saw your posts bottoms, that sucks. although it seems to be the exception to the rule. but yes, there is always a possibility. however i'll take that 1% chance over motion blur, grey blacks, ghosting, flashlighting, cloudiness, etc.


and i watch 90% HD. i even deleted the local SD channels from my Tivo - why waste time watching SD? i only have a few hours a day to watch TV and there is more than enough HD programming to watch.


----------



## tts42572

I really don't how if it's something you HAVE to be worried about. But I just think that you'll find many plasma owners that choose to be careful just because they don't want a problem.


If you read this thread, seems like 90% of the postings are all posts about people inquiring about burn-in/IR as you did and people's responses to them.


For what its worth, doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of posts of actual cases of severe burn-in or severe uneven phosphor aging....


I'm sure there are cases....but if it was a widespread problem, I sorta doubt plasma TV's would still be around at all after 9 or 10 years or however long they've been if a high percentage of sets were showing all kinds of uneven aging and burn-in. And it seems like there would be a whole lot of posts about it since plasma has been around for quite awhile.


Just my opinion though....don't have any hard and fast evidence. In the end, it's your money and you gotta just go with the technology that makes you the most comfortable.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mchalebk* /forum/post/13915779
> 
> 
> I came to this thread a few days ago trying to find out if I should consider a plasma if I watch a fair amount of 4:3 material (I threw out a number of 33%, though it's probably less than that). It became obvious from the replies that, unless you stretch your 4:3 material or watch very little of it, you do have to be worried about burn-in (uneven phosphor wear). It seems that most plasma owners either don't watch 4:3 material or stretch it.
> 
> 
> So, yes, it's still very much an issue. I refuse to stretch most 4:3 material and I watch a fair amount of it, so it looks like an LCD for me.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/13916027
> 
> 
> i saw your posts bottoms, that sucks. although it seems to be the exception to the rule. but yes, there is always a possibility. however i'll take that 1% chance over motion blur, grey blacks, ghosting, flashlighting, cloudiness, etc.
> 
> 
> and i watch 90% HD. i even deleted the local SD channels from my Tivo - why waste time watching SD? i only have a few hours a day to watch TV and there is more than enough HD programming to watch.



Thanks. I can't wait to get my plasma back


----------



## fistofsouth

I've noticed the nice prices that some Plasmas can go for (saw a 50" 1080P for less than $1400 the other day) these days and so I decided to take another look at Plasmas.


For my first HDTV Plasma was eliminated early on. I love the black blacks and lack of motion blur that Plamas have, but my TV is in a location where glare would be a constant concern and we play lots of video games, use the TV as a secondary computer monitor and watch plenty of 4:3 and 2.35:1 content so Plasma was a no go.


Well I'm about to buy a new home and I will probably have an opportunity to set up an HT room where lighting will not be an issue so that concern is a thing of the past. I have also read all of the data from the Plasma TV Coalition and they seem to think that IR is a thing of the past. Yet here we are on page 14 of the second thread about IR. There is post after post of people complaining about IR followed by Plasma enthusiasts that say IR is a thing of the past.


It looks like IR is not a thing of the past; it is simply less prevalent and can be controlled. The same way blur is less prevalent and can be dealt with on LCDs, but if you get up close on any LCD you'll see a little blur. Like the IR on Plasmas it isn't noticeable at normal seating distances, but it is still there. I just wish there was a perfect solution for HDTV right now your choices are bad contrast (LCD), washed out color (Projection) or keeping a strict content schedule that does not consist of too much gaming, too much 4:3, too much 2.35:1 or too much Fox/ESPN/Bloomberg (Plasma).


----------



## bottoms

[. I just wish there was a perfect solution for HDTV right now your choices are bad contrast (LCD), washed out color (Projection) or keeping a strict content schedule that does not consist of too much gaming, too much 4:3, too much 2.35:1 or too much Fox/ESPN/Bloomberg (Plasma).[/quote]


Where I got in trouble was leaving on the the NFL draft for 5 hours, the IR is in the top left hand corner so any snow or sky sceens show it ,if it was on the bottom part I would never see it .I am still optimistic that it will eventually go away







I will say after 3 weeks it has faded some


----------



## flexy123

what kind of IR is this...i always hear people mentioning about logos and similar which are then visible as BRIGHT IR....or IR which is visible on the white-wash screen.


But i have kind of an IR which shows only when picture is deep BLACK...its a very faint horizontal bar across the screen, approx 4" wide. The bar shows as very little DARKER than the remaining area of the screen. This is a new set.


Its not that big a deal...but i am running "Pxiel Protector" DVD on "snow" right now since its said that white snow is best for getting rid of IR. Maybe its also some kind of interference???


I dont remember having anything on the screen which could've caused the bar...not on that position (about 1st 3rd of screen, in the middle).


I might check into service menu to double-check panel run-time...just to make sure i didnt get a demo-set sold as brand-new?!


(Its a sammy btw)


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flexy123* /forum/post/13931040
> 
> 
> what kind of IR is this...i always hear people mentioning about logos and similar which are then visible as BRIGHT IR....or IR which is visible on the white-wash screen.
> 
> 
> But i have kind of an IR which shows only when picture is deep BLACK...its a very faint horizontal bar across the screen, approx 4" wide. The bar shows as very little DARKER than the remaining area of the screen. This is a new set.
> 
> 
> Its not that big a deal...but i am running "Pxiel Protector" DVD on "snow" right now since its said that white snow is best for getting rid of IR. Maybe its also some kind of interference???
> 
> 
> I dont remember having anything on the screen which could've caused the bar...not on that position (about 1st 3rd of screen, in the middle).
> 
> 
> I might check into service menu to double-check panel run-time...just to make sure i didnt get a demo-set sold as brand-new?!
> 
> 
> (Its a sammy btw)



Did you watch something that a 4" wide bar across the screen for hours? Probably not. Something could be wrong with your set.


----------



## flexy123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/13932455
> 
> 
> Did you watch something that a 4" wide bar across the screen for hours? Probably not. Something could be wrong with your set.



would it have been a dark bar..or a white bar...to appear as slightly darker black shadow on black?


----------



## booker21

just got my plasma. I´m doing using the break in dvd, as we speak. I also change the settings to 50% or less and i set E.Saving at High.


The problem i´m seeing is that i have black crush on movies now. If i want to fix it i have to go a bit higher than 50%

My question is what i should do?


before reaching the safe zone i´ll be watching tons of movies, so i´m force to watch this movies with a wrong calibration? or i can go a bit over 50%?


thanks

Booker


----------



## CLN

I just got a Samsung PN42A450 and I'm trying to be gentle with it. I'm confused on what settings I should go by on this Samsung FAQ if my only input source from now is regular SD cable. I can't post a link to the FAQ, but it links to Zippy's "Officially" Unofficial Samsung 54/64 PDP settings,tweaks and tips thread.


The standard default settings are like so:


Cell Light: 7

Contrast: 95

Brightness: 45

Sharpness: 50

Color: 50


I don't see any mention of cell light in the recommended settings, and 95 contrast seems like alot, although the default settings look good to me.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/13940278
> 
> 
> just got my plasma. I´m doing using the break in dvd, as we speak. I also change the settings to 50% or less and i set E.Saving at High.
> 
> 
> The problem i´m seeing is that i have black crush on movies now. If i want to fix it i have to go a bit higher than 50%
> 
> My question is what i should do?
> 
> 
> before reaching the safe zone i´ll be watching tons of movies, so i´m force to watch this movies with a wrong calibration? or i can go a bit over 50%?
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> Booker



If you calibrate your display properly, even before it reaches 100 or 200 hours, you shouldn't worry about burn-in. Maybe you'll get the ocassional (reversible) IR, but not burn-in.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13940516
> 
> 
> If you calibrate your display properly, even before it reaches 100 or 200 hours, you shouldn't worry about burn-in. Maybe you'll get the ocassional (reversible) IR, but not burn-in.



that´s interesting then.


Why there are Pre Break ins and Post break in settings then? why not just a properly calibrate display and that´s it? or just a tip "calibrate with DVE or Avia"?


anyways i found that i had contrast extremely low, at 40% i just rised to 50% and the dithering is much better now, barely noticeable. I assume i´m still on the safe zone because Samsung FAQ recommend a 64% contrast setting on Pre Break in period.


any comments, will be great since i´m really noob on this and i don´t want to start with the wrong foot.


----------



## David Susilo

because phospor (or any light source) age, and they age quickly for the first couple hundred hours, so if you calibrate now, 100 hours later the settings will change.

I personally calibrate my work monitor every time I'm about to start a new project, and for my home I calibrate my displays once a year at the very minimum.


And even after several years of usage, every time I re-calibrate, the settings change a bit although not as dramatic as the first couple hundred hours.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13940831
> 
> 
> because phospor (or any light source) age, and they age quickly for the first couple hundred hours, so if you calibrate now, 100 hours later the settings will change.
> 
> I personally calibrate my work monitor every time I'm about to start a new project, and for my home I calibrate my displays once a year at the very minimum.
> 
> 
> And even after several years of usage, every time I re-calibrate, the settings change a bit although not as dramatic as the first couple hundred hours.



oh ok, so basically the idea is to wait until you past the 100hs to calibrate, otherwise you will have to do the same work twice in a very short period of time. Make sense.

Thanks!


----------



## David Susilo

really depends on your viewing habit. 100 hours will take me about about 4 months to achieve (my plasma is for movie viewing only). I still remember when I just bought my CRT RPTV, I calibrated the TV when I received it, again at approx 100 hours, and again at 250 hours. I watched much more movies back then so it was at 0-month, 2-month and 5-month points. All those times, the service-menu settings change rather dramatically.


PS: if you really want to save money, do the eye-balling calibration now and again at 100 hours. At 250 hours, call an ISF certified technician.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/13940959
> 
> 
> really depends on your viewing habit. 100 hours will take me about about 4 months to achieve (my plasma is for movie viewing only). I still remember when I just bought my CRT RPTV, I calibrated the TV when I received it, again at approx 100 hours, and again at 250 hours. I watched much more movies back then so it was at 0-month, 2-month and 5-month points. All those times, the service-menu settings change rather dramatically.
> 
> 
> PS: if you really want to save money, do the eye-balling calibration now and again at 100 hours. At 250 hours, call an ISF certified technician.



I´m forcing the 100hs by using the break in dvd.

so i think on10 days maybe 2 weeks i´ll past the break in period.


----------



## Pineapple

Would it be ok to continuously run the break in DVD for 8-12 hours? I plan to run the break in dvd continuously during the day and shut it off at night.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pineapple* /forum/post/13941407
> 
> 
> Would it be ok to continuously run the break in DVD for 8-12 hours? I plan to run the break in dvd continuously during the day and shut it off at night.



Yeap, some people leave it running 24hs, this way it will take only 4 days to reach the 100hs. I don´t like that, i only run it where i can supervise it


----------



## wavest

Does the picture quality of the tv improve after the break in period? I'm in the process of breaking in a Panasonic px80u with the settings turned down. I realize that these are not ideal, but the tv is not impressing me in the clarity department at this point. Should I concern myself with that at this time? My source is Dish HD.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wavest* /forum/post/13945776
> 
> 
> Does the picture quality of the tv improve after the break in period? I'm in the process of breaking in a Panasonic px80u with the settings turned down. I realize that these are not ideal, but the tv is not impressing me in the clarity department at this point. Should I concern myself with that at this time? My source is Dish HD.



hmm if you don´t like the PQ now, i doubt you will like later.

Yeah it could look better but i don´t think the difference will be that big.


----------



## ZBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wavest* /forum/post/13945776
> 
> 
> Does the picture quality of the tv improve after the break in period? I'm in the process of breaking in a Panasonic px80u with the settings turned down. I realize that these are not ideal, but the tv is not impressing me in the clarity department at this point. Should I concern myself with that at this time? My source is Dish HD.



Dumb question maybe, but do you have a Dish HD receiver hooked to the TV properly (HDMI or component set to 1080i or 720p)?


Channels like HD Theater should look great on the TV if hooked up properly. Also, the TV will look a bit dull with the "settings turned down."


----------



## Zenjabil

Does anyone know if a source (DVD, or even HD DVD or Blu-ray, or any other source for that matter) with an 'inverted' 4:3 signal, i.e. black middle portion of the screen, with white side bars. I'm trying to 'fix' the 4:3 wear pattern I've recently started noticing on my Panny 58PZ700u by accelerating wear in the side bars in order to even out the panel.


Virtually all of my 4:3 material has been with gray (rather than black) side bars, but I've still suffered uneven wear, and would like to rectify the situation.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13946644
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if a source (DVD, or even HD DVD or Blu-ray, or any other source for that matter) with an 'inverted' 4:3 signal, i.e. black middle portion of the screen, with white side bars. I'm trying to 'fix' the 4:3 wear pattern I've recently started noticing on my Panny 58PZ700u by accelerating wear in the side bars in order to even out the panel.
> 
> 
> Virtually all of my 4:3 material has been with gray (rather than black) side bars, but I've still suffered uneven wear, and would like to rectify the situation.



how long did you have your tv? did you watch a lot of 4:3 material over 16:9?


----------



## flexy123

How can the usual anti-IR methods (pixel protector dvd, white scrolling, white noise, jscreen fix and whatever there is) get rid of specific burn-in?


All those methods work by even out the whole screen...if i have a logo or similar "burnt in"...the screen as a whole gets "event out"..but what is the methology behind the claim that this "accelerated wear" across the whole panel also gets rid of specific burn-ins in the shape of a specific pattern?


I still would like to ask for an answer to a question i had a while ago....this is according the exact appearance of IR (or burn-in) which appears as a very faint darker shade, barely visible, mostly when screen is all black.

I have a 3" wide bar across the screen which is *very little* darker than the rest.

My question now is, is this IR (if it is IR and not some interference) the result of a WHITE bar....or a BLACK bar?


This in determining a solution.


I also was in service menu, and it said 70hrs on panel which seems about right...i already let the white scroll run for hours and hours...but the very faint darker bar is still visible if you know its there. I might repeat the procedure...but it might help if i know whether the darker area was caused by uneven wear *outside* the dark bar, eg. with the area of the bar always being black/dark...or if its IR caused by something *brighter* in this area.


So...example..how does typical 4:3 IR/burn in look like at a pretty dark screen? I assume the impressed black bars on the left/right would be a shade darker than the rest of the panel? If thats the case, my "faint black bar" would lead to the conclusion it comes from uneven wear with the areas around the "bar" for some time always being brighter displayed..


If i would be sure its IR (or some kind of IR) i could even make something like a "mask" and burn a negative image of the IR on the screen or something. Danger is...if its rather an interference...then i would risk damage and create real burn-in instead...


G.


----------



## spincut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13946644
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if a source (DVD, or even HD DVD or Blu-ray, or any other source for that matter) with an 'inverted' 4:3 signal, i.e. black middle portion of the screen, with white side bars. I'm trying to 'fix' the 4:3 wear pattern I've recently started noticing on my Panny 58PZ700u by accelerating wear in the side bars in order to even out the panel.
> 
> 
> Virtually all of my 4:3 material has been with gray (rather than black) side bars, but I've still suffered uneven wear, and would like to rectify the situation.



wow that sucks, i always thought if you used grey bars from the start, everything would age evenly. I hated the idea of using grey bars, but i resigned to it if it would make everything stay even, but if for whatever reason that doesnt even work, that is very disconcerting.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flexy123* /forum/post/13950686
> 
> 
> How can the usual anti-IR methods (pixel protector dvd, white scrolling, white noise, jscreen fix and whatever there is) get rid of specific burn-in?
> 
> 
> All those methods work by even out the whole screen...if i have a logo or similar "burnt in"...the screen as a whole gets "event out"..but what is the methology behind the claim that this "accelerated wear" across the whole panel also gets rid of specific burn-ins in the shape of a specific pattern?
> 
> 
> I still would like to ask for an answer to a question i had a while ago....this is according the exact appearance of IR (or burn-in) which appears as a very faint darker shade, barely visible, mostly when screen is all black.
> 
> I have a 3" wide bar across the screen which is *very little* darker than the rest.
> 
> My question now is, is this IR (if it is IR and not some interference) the result of a WHITE bar....or a BLACK bar?
> 
> 
> This in determining a solution.
> 
> 
> I also was in service menu, and it said 70hrs on panel which seems about right...i already let the white scroll run for hours and hours...but the very faint darker bar is still visible if you know its there. I might repeat the procedure...but it might help if i know whether the darker area was caused by uneven wear *outside* the dark bar, eg. with the area of the bar always being black/dark...or if its IR caused by something *brighter* in this area.
> 
> 
> So...example..how does typical 4:3 IR/burn in look like at a pretty dark screen? I assume the impressed black bars on the left/right would be a shade darker than the rest of the panel? If thats the case, my "faint black bar" would lead to the conclusion it comes from uneven wear with the areas around the "bar" for some time always being brighter displayed..
> 
> 
> If i would be sure its IR (or some kind of IR) i could even make something like a "mask" and burn a negative image of the IR on the screen or something. Danger is...if its rather an interference...then i would risk damage and create real burn-in instead...
> 
> 
> G.


2 types of IR:

1 - transient IR - short lived - caused by residual wall charge

2 - long lasting IR - caused by sputtering of Mg onto phosphor layer or adjacent cells

White wash can resolve both types by:

1 - normalizing wall charge in all pixels (happens quickly)

2 - normalizing Mg deposition in all pixels (takes many hours)


As for your issue, I can't see it being IR or burn-in since you haven't displayed that pattern on your display? So I would think since it is horizontal that you have a driver issue and need to contact the manufacturer. Other possibilities are that there is a glass manufacturing defect (either the electrodes, pixels, or event the glass coating is slightly different)


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13946644
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if a source (DVD, or even HD DVD or Blu-ray, or any other source for that matter) with an 'inverted' 4:3 signal, i.e. black middle portion of the screen, with white side bars. I'm trying to 'fix' the 4:3 wear pattern I've recently started noticing on my Panny 58PZ700u by accelerating wear in the side bars in order to even out the panel.
> 
> 
> Virtually all of my 4:3 material has been with gray (rather than black) side bars, but I've still suffered uneven wear, and would like to rectify the situation.



This is a tricky one. It is hard to tell if you have IR or burn-in since you used grey bars. You should carefully check the appearance of a full black screen and a full white screen (use pic with 0,0,0 and 255,255,255). If you can take a long exposure picture of the 0,0,0 and a short exposure picture of the 255,255,255. If not just describe it (are the side bars lighter or darker than the centre portion?)


----------



## booker21

i´m only 32hs into break in period. I´m using


50% contrast

53% brightness

50% sharpness

50% color


I´m on the safe zone yet?


I did some calibration with Avia and these are the "calibrated settings"


60% contrast

53% brightness

50 sharpness

55% color.


I still decided to use my 1st set, to be more on the safe zone. After reaching the 100hs i will use my 2nd set (calibrated with Avia)


I´m also using E.Saving on High, so this way the panel is less bright, i guess this will also help with IR.


Could someone give me an opinion on this?


I´m new to plasma so any help would be great


i´m also using Full Screen on all shows i´m watching i´m avoiding long gaming sessions and 4:3 viewing.


So far all IR i saw went away as soon as another picture was shown on the screen.


Thanks

Booker


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/13954351
> 
> 
> i´m also using Full Screen on all shows i´m watching i´m avoiding long gaming sessions and 4:3 viewing.
> 
> 
> So far all IR i saw went away as soon as another picture was shown on the screen.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Booker



I wouldn't worry too much about gaming sessions. Most games include cutscenes, loading screens, menus, etc that break up whatever HUDs or crosshairs or whatever that are on screen. A possible exception is some of the sports games and maybe Guitar Hero? I don't have any of those but I hear they do have some more persistent graphics. FWIW games like COD4, Gears of War, and Mass Effect comprise at least 50% of my TV's usage, since the day I got it, and I've never seen any problems from them.


Do use the stretch modes on 4:3 shows if you watch a lot of them. I believe the risk of burn-in from logos and HUDs is seriously overstated, but the uneven wearing of letterbox and pillarbox bars seems more plausible. The solution of course is to watch HD channels










jeff


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/13955646
> 
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about gaming sessions. Most games include cutscenes, loading screens, menus, etc that break up whatever HUDs or crosshairs or whatever that are on screen. A possible exception is some of the sports games and maybe Guitar Hero? I don't have any of those but I hear they do have some more persistent graphics. FWIW games like COD4, Gears of War, and Mass Effect comprise at least 50% of my TV's usage, since the day I got it, and I've never seen any problems from them.
> 
> 
> Do use the stretch modes on 4:3 shows if you watch a lot of them. I believe the risk of burn-in from logos and HUDs is seriously overstated, but the uneven wearing of letterbox and pillarbox bars seems more plausible. The solution of course is to watch HD channels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeff



yeah, i´m watching 4:3 streched, maybe some shows i watch then on 4:3 AR but 90% of the time i streched them. Right now i´m on the break in, so i had streched all 4:3 content so far, but i do know i´ll watch some 4:3 sometimes. not much, though.


Games will be my main use. And as you said, most games have loadings, cutscenes, etc so even the HUD they are not that much on screen as we think.

Also some HUD are more transparent so they affect even less.


I´m still wondering if my level of contrast is ok.. specially my calibrated setting.


----------



## johnsonk2

I just got my Panasonic 65/750 and wanted to ask a few questions about some of my veiwing habits and if my strategy will help avoid IR or Burn-in. I like sports alot and find myself pausing my dvr when putting the kids to bed or various other things and then going back to resume watching the game. My question is, if I pause my dvr (satelite receiver) and turn the display off...go do whatever for 15-30 minutes...come back, power up display and resume watching, then that should not cause IR or burn in...right? I would also ask the same question about video games???


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnsonk2* /forum/post/13955739
> 
> 
> I just got my Panasonic 65/750 and wanted to ask a few questions about some of my veiwing habits and if my strategy will help avoid IR or Burn-in. I like sports alot and find myself pausing my dvr when putting the kids to bed or various other things and then going back to resume watching the game. My question is, if I pause my dvr (satelite receiver) and turn the display off...go do whatever for 15-30 minutes...come back, power up display and resume watching, then that should not cause IR or burn in...right? I would also ask the same question about video games???



Yeap, from my understanding that won´t cause any IR or BI at all.


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnsonk2* /forum/post/13955739
> 
> 
> I just got my Panasonic 65/750 and wanted to ask a few questions about some of my veiwing habits and if my strategy will help avoid IR or Burn-in. I like sports alot and find myself pausing my dvr when putting the kids to bed or various other things and then going back to resume watching the game. My question is, if I pause my dvr (satelite receiver) and turn the display off...go do whatever for 15-30 minutes...come back, power up display and resume watching, then that should not cause IR or burn in...right? I would also ask the same question about video games???



With my Pio 5080 I frequently pause the DVR and DVD player for 15-30 minutes and sometimes longer. I've never had an I/R issue.


----------



## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/13952394
> 
> 
> This is a tricky one. It is hard to tell if you have IR or burn-in since you used grey bars. You should carefully check the appearance of a full black screen and a full white screen (use pic with 0,0,0 and 255,255,255). If you can take a long exposure picture of the 0,0,0 and a short exposure picture of the 255,255,255. If not just describe it (are the side bars lighter or darker than the centre portion?)



Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).


The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.


Surely, there must be a DVD, or Blu-ray or software that can project this type of signal. Alternatively, does anyone know how to 'lighten/whiten' the gray side bars put out by my TimeWarner 8300HD Cable box (would achieve the same end - albeit more slowly?


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13971503
> 
> 
> Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).
> 
> 
> The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.
> 
> 
> Surely, there must be a DVD, or Blu-ray or software that can project this type of signal. Alternatively, does anyone know how to 'lighten/whiten' the gray side bars put out by my TimeWarner 8300HD Cable box (would achieve the same end - albeit more slowly?



you should be able to do this with the pc. Just make a pattern with dark on them middle and withe on the sides.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13971503
> 
> 
> Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).
> 
> 
> The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.
> 
> 
> Surely, there must be a DVD, or Blu-ray or software that can project this type of signal. Alternatively, does anyone know how to 'lighten/whiten' the gray side bars put out by my TimeWarner 8300HD Cable box (would achieve the same end - albeit more slowly?



What does it look like with a 0,0,0 signal? You may have long lasting IR that is recoverable. More specifically, when displaying a black screen, are the side bars lighter than the centre portion or darker? And on a full white screen? (you say that on a full white screen the side bars are lighter)


----------



## modestyle

Hello


I recently bought a Panasonic 800U... I notice that after leaving menu's on for no more then 30 seconds, or freezing content for longer then that, there is slight IR on my screen. If it is dark and the TV is set to a black input then I can see faint greyish images in the screen.. such as credits, or the input menu... I was not doing anything special with the TV.. was switching back and forth between THX and Standard mode.. and watched a few "half" movies with black bars... I didn't mess my TV up did I? The images generally go away, but I have not checked to see if I can completely get rid of it.


What should I Do?


Should I use a break-in DVD? Will this solve my problem and allow me to leave images/games on the screen longer without having to worry about IR/Burn In?


Can I download a free break-in DVD???


Any assistance would be much appreciated.. This is my first HDTV and I am afraid of messing it up!


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *modestyle* /forum/post/13973942
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> I recently bought a Panasonic 800U... I notice that after leaving menu's on for no more then 30 seconds, or freezing content for longer then that, there is slight IR on my screen. If it is dark and the TV is set to a black input then I can see faint greyish images in the screen.. such as credits, or the input menu... I was not doing anything special with the TV.. was switching back and forth between THX and Standard mode.. and watched a few "half" movies with black bars... I didn't mess my TV up did I? The images generally go away, but I have not checked to see if I can completely get rid of it.
> 
> 
> What should I Do?
> 
> 
> Should I use a break-in DVD? Will this solve my problem and allow me to leave images/games on the screen longer without having to worry about IR/Burn In?
> 
> 
> Can I download a free break-in DVD???
> 
> 
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.. This is my first HDTV and I am afraid of messing it up!



i believe this is normal, don´t worry. You will see less of this after the tv gets older.

You can download the break dvd for free, check the 1st post.


My tv does exactly the same, after 40hs into it, i see this less and less...


on the other hand i saw a soccer game last night, this means 40 min of a fixed scoreboard on the tv.

This took a while until it totally fade out.

i hope as i said the more hs i get on the tv the faster will will go away. i hope, anyways no big deal while they fade away sooner or later, barely notice anyways.


----------



## booker21

I´m using Movie mode with all settings at 50% for break in.

Should i use Standard mode instead? why? i don´t see why 1 mode will be better than other mode to break in the tv...


could someone clarify?


thanks


----------



## burnsalkire




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *modestyle* /forum/post/13973942
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> I recently bought a Panasonic 800U... I notice that after leaving menu's on for no more then 30 seconds, or freezing content for longer then that, there is slight IR on my screen. If it is dark and the TV is set to a black input then I can see faint greyish images in the screen.. such as credits, or the input menu... I was not doing anything special with the TV.. was switching back and forth between THX and Standard mode.. and watched a few "half" movies with black bars... I didn't mess my TV up did I? The images generally go away, but I have not checked to see if I can completely get rid of it.
> 
> 
> What should I Do?
> 
> 
> Should I use a break-in DVD? Will this solve my problem and allow me to leave images/games on the screen longer without having to worry about IR/Burn In?
> 
> 
> Can I download a free break-in DVD???
> 
> 
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.. This is my first HDTV and I am afraid of messing it up!



I/R after 30 seconds?? Is this normal on all Panasonics? I've never had this happen on my Kuro.


----------



## booker21

It´s normal to get IR after 2hs of a sports game, were the scoreboard stayed on the screen for this 2hs. (white scoreboard) only visible at complete dark screen with my nose on the display, though. Didn´t bother me 1 bit but still wondering.

it took a while until it faded away complelty, maybe 2 or 3hs.


My Tv is new, only 50hs into the break in. Still wondering because i´ll be gaming a lot after the break in period ends


----------



## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/13952394
> 
> 
> This is a tricky one. It is hard to tell if you have IR or burn-in since you used grey bars. You should carefully check the appearance of a full black screen and a full white screen (use pic with 0,0,0 and 255,255,255). If you can take a long exposure picture of the 0,0,0 and a short exposure picture of the 255,255,255. If not just describe it (are the side bars lighter or darker than the centre portion?)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/13971682
> 
> 
> What does it look like with a 0,0,0 signal? You may have long lasting IR that is recoverable. More specifically, when displaying a black screen, are the side bars lighter than the centre portion or darker? And on a full white screen? (you say that on a full white screen the side bars are lighter)



A black screen is perfectly uniformly black. You don;t even have to go all the way to black for the discrepancy to become unnoticeable. You generally don't see it on any DARK coloured background (red, green blue...any colour). The issue is with light colours and of course its most noticeable with a full white field, when the panel is driven hardest, and the difference between the slightly worn sidebar areas and the more worn mid section is most evident.


I'd be very surprised if its long lasting IR.


----------



## Zenjabil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/13971634
> 
> 
> you should be able to do this with the pc. Just make a pattern with dark on them middle and withe on the sides.



Thought about this, but I'm looking for a signal that is precisely 1920+1080 in resolution, i.e. I want the precise inverse of the 1080i signal that the cable box has been feeding it. I'm concerned that if I'm not 'spot on', I may even out the wear issue, but be left with a 'line' to the extent there's any overlap.


Can I generate the image you speak of in 1920x1080 resolution on a PC?


----------



## TerraV

Need a bit of help discerning whether a mark on my tv is burn-in, image retention or a faulty component inside the set itself. TV model is a samsung LCD LE2641RB (I think) and had the power supply replaced last year due to the infamous faults this TV is prone to developing. Anyway, just recently I have noticed a single black line starting from about an inch from the top of the screen and going straight down.


I did a bit of research on google and someone said that a single black vertical line might be a faulty component. However, the line is not solid black, top to bottom - its faded at the very top, and becomes darker until its about 50% down the screen, then fades away to being invisible at the bottom half.


Now, the set displays in 1080i/720p most of the time for PS3/x360, and TV viewing. I spend a lot of time using the ps2 through component input though, and this particular setup leaves 2 thin black bars on either side of the image (even in 16:9 - something to do with "overscan" in older system or something) Now, this "vertical black line" matches up exactly with the left border when playing ps2 games, however I would have though that there would be another matching black line on the right hand side of the set, however there isn't. I would also have surmised that the entire "left border" side of the screen would be subject to this "black line" effect, but it isn't the case - its just a single line.


The black line doesn't show up on an all black or all white screen, but is visible to varying degrees on all other colours.


So my question is, I'm 90% sure this has been caused by excessive use of the bordered ps2 mode but I don't know if its image retention, burn in or a faulty component.


Can anyone help, I'm running a pure white screen on the set as often as possible (though I'm not sure whether this is having any effect), but I've been using the ps2 this way for years and honestly couldn't calculate the amount of hours i'd need to "reverse it" this way, and the problem has only become noticeable within the last month.


Secondly, would displaying "something" other than a black line in the affected area (ie: normal fullscreen tv viewing) also potentially counteract the black line effect as the white screen is supposed to?


Sorry if this is difficult to understand but its hard to explain. The Tv is still within warranty but I'm not sure where I'd stand with this kind of issue. The black line doesn't ruin anything but I certainly don't want it getting any worse.


Thanks in advance, hope this is the right place to post this.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TerraV* /forum/post/13983825
> 
> 
> Need a bit of help discerning whether a mark on my tv is burn-in, image retention or a faulty component inside the set itself. TV model is a samsung LCD LE2641RB (I think) and had the power supply replaced last year due to the infamous faults this TV is prone to developing. Anyway, just recently I have noticed a single black line starting from about an inch from the top of the screen and going straight down.
> 
> 
> I did a bit of research on google and someone said that a single black vertical line might be a faulty component. However, the line is not solid black, top to bottom - its faded at the very top, and becomes darker until its about 50% down the screen, then fades away to being invisible at the bottom half.
> 
> 
> Now, the set displays in 1080i/720p most of the time for PS3/x360, and TV viewing. I spend a lot of time using the ps2 through component input though, and this particular setup leaves 2 thin black bars on either side of the image (even in 16:9 - something to do with "overscan" in older system or something) Now, this "vertical black line" matches up exactly with the left border when playing ps2 games, however I would have though that there would be another matching black line on the right hand side of the set, however there isn't. I would also have surmised that the entire "left border" side of the screen would be subject to this "black line" effect, but it isn't the case - its just a single line.
> 
> 
> The black line doesn't show up on an all black or all white screen, but is visible to varying degrees on all other colours.
> 
> 
> So my question is, I'm 90% sure this has been caused by excessive use of the bordered ps2 mode but I don't know if its image retention, burn in or a faulty component.
> 
> 
> Can anyone help, I'm running a pure white screen on the set as often as possible (though I'm not sure whether this is having any effect), but I've been using the ps2 this way for years and honestly couldn't calculate the amount of hours i'd need to "reverse it" this way, and the problem has only become noticeable within the last month.
> 
> 
> Secondly, would displaying "something" other than a black line in the affected area (ie: normal fullscreen tv viewing) also potentially counteract the black line effect as the white screen is supposed to?
> 
> 
> Sorry if this is difficult to understand but its hard to explain. The Tv is still within warranty but I'm not sure where I'd stand with this kind of issue. The black line doesn't ruin anything but I certainly don't want it getting any worse.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance, hope this is the right place to post this.



being an lcd and the way you descrbie i believe it´s a faulty component.


----------



## TerraV

thanks for the quick response, if it is indeed a faulty component I take it the manufacturers would be liable to fix/exchange it since its in warranty?


----------



## booker21

yeap, they should call them.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/13915990
> 
> 
> I agree LCD would be better . I have a 4270 Pio and with 2000 hours ( always looked out for Burn-In , oh sorry IR ) I GOT IT by watching 3-4 hours of the NFL draft . THE BAD THING IS THE LOGO is in the upper right hand corner of my set 2"x4" with the words on the clock . Thought after 2000 hours I would be imune , but I guessed wrong . I also have my TV back in the shop ,it's 2 months out of warranty ,but Pioneer will cover the repair . So what I am saying is "Plasma's" you still have to be careful , but when I purchase again (50+ size) I am 99% sure it will be a PIO . Don't like the IR ,but love the PQ. I have been viewing my Sharp Aquos and it's nice ,but for HD you need a PLASMA!!!!!!!!!



Well my IR is compleatly gone!!!!! My Pio is back from the shop and they put in a whole new pannel







(not because of IR there was an issue with the board and a thin black thin appeared on the screen)The PQ is better than before


----------



## booker21

15hs left until i reach 100hs break in period! can´t wait!... i want to give my tv a break, it´s been on since yesterday running the break in dvd loop over and over.


----------



## flip034




Zenjabil said:


> Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).
> 
> 
> The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.
> 
> 
> I am having this exact same problem with my 60 inch vizio plasma. have been using pixel protector dvd and an inverse 4:3 pattern that i burned to dvd. has anyone had any luck clearing up this uneven phosfor wear and if so how?


----------



## Vikinguy

I'm around 120 hours on my 50PX80U, do you guys think it would be OK to throw on Star wars in 2:35:1?


----------



## Pineapple




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vikinguy* /forum/post/13991753
> 
> 
> I'm around 120 hours on my 50PX80U, do you guys think it would be OK to throw on Star wars in 2:35:1?



Go for it!


----------



## Vikinguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pineapple* /forum/post/13991764
> 
> 
> Go for it!





lol, actually i just checked and i'm at 142 hours. I think I'm gonna do it.


----------



## zyxses

I have used my LG 50PB4D from day one without too much regard for IR. I only ever get very faint IR with high contrast logos...which disappears quite quickly.

Will be getting a Panny 42"800 series soon...love plasma!


----------



## Zenjabil




flip034 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zenjabil* /forum/post/13971503
> 
> 
> Its definitely burn in (or more correctly uneven wear), and not IR. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have since switched to near constant 16:9 viewing (by stretching 4:3 signals), but still have the same issue, i.e. the side bars are slightly lighter than the mid section of the screen. I have about 4,000 hrs on the TV (approx 1 yr old) and 4:3 material is about 40 - 50% of what the TV is used for (albeit always w/ side bars in gray).
> 
> 
> The uneven wear is noticeable on about 10% of viewing material, typically with a white or light blue background etc. The picture is still great, I just want to accelerate the wear on the sidebars (by having them white with the rest of the screen black (presumably overnight for several days) so that the panel exhibits the same degree of wear all over.
> 
> 
> I am having this exact same problem with my 60 inch vizio plasma. have been using pixel protector dvd and an inverse 4:3 pattern that i burned to dvd. has anyone had any luck clearing up this uneven phosfor wear and if so how?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How precise/exact is this inverse 4:3 pattern that you've burned to DVD? Do you have a genuine 1920x1080 hd image (white sidebars and black middle), or do you have a SD image that is being upscaled by your player or the TV. The reason I ask is b/c I would think you would need a genuine 1920x1080 HD image of an inverse 4:3 pattern to make sure the side bars lined up EXACTLY (with no overlap), so as to ensure the accelerated wear you're creating in the side bars doesn't result in a thin line caused by a 1 or 2 pixel thick zone of overlap (or falling short of exactly lining up).
> 
> 
> How long have you been using this inverse pattern BTW? Any results thus far?
Click to expand...


----------



## steady teddy

I have a Panny TH-50PX600U with just over 2,900 hours. I took great care in breaking the TV in, running the break in DVD, when I bought it in September 06.


I watched Band of Brothers most of the day yesterday on the History Channel HD. The watermark caused a very slight IR on the lower right part of the display. The 'history.com' watermark is only noticable on a white or light grey background. I don't notice the watermark on dark colors.


The IR was still there this morning so I started running the break in DVD for about the last hour or so. I am seeing an improvement and it looks like the IR is starting to go away.


Assuming it goes away completely, should I consider myself lucky? I know it's not bullet proof, but I thought Panny plasmas were among the best displays for burn in. Shouldn't 3,000 hours of use be plenty of break in time?


I watch a TON of sports and never had a problem until yesterday.

I don't watch History HD that much but that watermark must be very intense.


----------



## modestyle

What exactly happens if I leave black bars on too long? I have a Panasonic 800U. and have watched a few movies with black bars along the top.. should I be worried? I have not run any break in.. Have used THX mode almost the entire time.


Do I need to run break-in if I just watch THX full screen material?


And if I do run break in, do I have to put up the brightness and contrast.. is contrast caleld picture on the Panasonic?



Is there anyway to check how long I have been watching the TV, through the TV?


Thanks for everyones help!


----------



## optivity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *modestyle* /forum/post/13996119
> 
> 
> What exactly happens if I leave black bars on too long?



If you were to display images with black bars too often, after a period of time (weeks, months, years?), when you display full screen content, the portion of the image where the black bars were displayed would appear brighter than the rest of the image on the screen; because the phosphors were not aged evenly across the entire screen.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *modestyle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic 800U. and have watched a “few” movies with black bars along the top.. should I be worried?



No, just try to keep in mind how many hours the black bars were displayed and follow it up by 3X that duration with full screen content.


----------



## scrover

New to the forum - been lurking for a few months - awesome resource btw


I have a TH-46PZ850 coming this week and plan to run the break-in images from a slide show on an SD card. Anybody had any issues or comments regarding the pros and cons of DVD vs SD break-in?


Steve


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scrover* /forum/post/13997640
> 
> 
> New to the forum - been lurking for a few months - awesome resource btw
> 
> 
> I have a TH-46PZ850 coming this week and plan to run the break-in images from a slide show on an SD card. Anybody had any issues or comments regarding the pros and cons of DVD vs SD break-in?
> 
> 
> Steve



i did the dvd via my PC did 100hs i think you should be fine both ways.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/13998522
> 
> 
> i did the dvd via my PC did 100hs i think you should be fine both ways.



.. so booker, you got the 4254, right; how it working out for you? seemed hestitate last time i caught a post of yours.


----------



## kyc123

Here a report on my burn-in experience. I just got a new LG 42PG20 and have ran about 60 hours of the break-in video plus about 10 hours of movie with full screen. I've decided to play a lil PS3 on my tv so I popped in GTA4 and played for about 3 to 4 hours... Well it looks like the life "ring" is sorta burnt on the bottom left of my screen... I don't know how severe it is, but I can definitely see it while I'm running my break-in dvd....


sigh... that's all... I can only hope for the best...


----------



## kyc123

Let me try to rephrase what this break-in dvd is about...if burning-in is a result of the phosphors not aging evenly, then there should be a point where aging has less impact on the "color change" (I'm using this term to represent how a burnt in image is lighter). I guess that's the whole point of the break-in dvd.


Here's my question: If I keep playing my break-in dvd to try to age my set evenly even with my burnt in logo, eventually, for the burnt in black ring area, 300 hours of even color plus 3 hours of black ring should look the same as 300 hours of even color..... right? Meaning the impact those 3 hours had is lesser on 1000 hours than 500 hours than 300 hours etc...


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/13999064
> 
> 
> .. so booker, you got the 4254, right; how it working out for you? seemed hestitate last time i caught a post of yours.




Hi,

Yes i bought it last Monday, i already end the break in period, i left running the break in dvd for around a week, i passed the 100hs mark already.


So far so good, i see IR very quick on this set,though. leaving the tv menu for example, on a dark screen will get IR, but it goes away as soon as i get any picture on the screen.

I did game a while too, and so far, no IR lasted for longer than seconds. The biggest IR i got was a scoreboard from a soccer game i watched, which was gone after 30 min of watching normal programming.


Anyways, this IR doesn´t even bother me, i can only see it on a completely dark room and on completely black screen. Sooner or later they go away. So far no IR on white, so as you can see no big deal at all.


My conclusion:

IR and BI sounds 10x worst on the Internet and this forum. Unless you are using the tv as a Monitor or on a bright room you should go to plasma technology.

Black levels, contrast, are amazing! Nothing compared to my old LCD tv. Now i get that feeling when you say, " now i have to watch and play all my movies and games, again" because it´s like a night n day difference!


really happy so far.


----------



## HoyaNate




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kyc123* /forum/post/13999914
> 
> 
> Here's my question: If I keep playing my break-in dvd to try to age my set evenly even with my burnt in logo, eventually, for the burnt in black ring area, 300 hours of even color plus 3 hours of black ring should look the same as 300 hours of even color..... right? Meaning the impact those 3 hours had is lesser on 1000 hours than 500 hours than 300 hours etc...



given my limited understanding and experience with plasmas, i'd say this is correct. i'd also say that you likely won't need 300 hours of the break-in dvd to get rid of it - reading about people's experiences, IR usually corrects within a few hours max, even early on in the set's lifetime.


i myself am on 87 hours of break-in in my 50PZ800U, so i haven't tested the ps3 yet, but gta4 will likely be one of the first things i try once 100 hours is up. i am hoping i can avoid this type of IR myself once my break-in is over.


----------



## samf10

Please help, i have tried all 3 formats on the break in dvd website. I have tried the sd memory card as well. Still i can not get the break in dvd to play. Tried 3 different dvd players as well. I am awaiting my pz800u today and will like to get this broken in right away. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips on the best way to burn this break in dvd? Thanks so much


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kyc123*
> 
> Here a report on my burn-in experience. I just got a new LG 42PG20 and have ran about 60 hours of the break-in video plus about 10 hours of movie with full screen. I've decided to play a lil PS3 on my tv so I popped in GTA4 and played for about 3 to 4 hours... Well it looks like the life "ring" is sorta burnt on the bottom left of my screen... I don't know how severe it is, but I can definitely see it while I'm running my break-in dvd....
> 
> 
> sigh... that's all... I can only hope for the best...



Your LG should have 3 IR prevention modes. Well, actually, one IR prevention mode and two IR removal modes.


Go to Picture -> Options -> Image Sticking Minimization


I have mine set for Orbit normally. It moves things around in an...Orbit...when the set detects a static image for too long.


There is also a reverse mode which kind of looks like a film negative and...


White wash. It is this latter mode that will probably fix your issue. As the name implies, it turns the entire screen bright white and washes away retained images. Try it for three minutes and see if that helps. If not, rinse and repeat.


I talked with an LG tech rep about this issue and he really had no reason to give me bum scoop as he wasn't on commission. Anyway, he indicated that it would be darn near impossible to get true burn-in on any 2007+ model LG.


There were a lot of technical reasons including pixel shifting ect, but the most basic one had to do with phosphor life. This current crop of sets has about 100k hours to 1/2 brightness. Which means that assuming you stuck a blazing red logo in the middle of a black background for 10 hours straight, you would burn through far less than 1/10,000th of that area's phosphor.


His point was that, worst case, 9-12 hours of normal viewing should clear up the IR you are seeing. Or 2-8 minutes of using the white wash mode. He suggested 2 minutes, check, 3 minutes, check, and then a final 3 minutes.


Please let us know how it turns out.


pax,

rwr


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14000778
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yes i bought it last Monday, i already end the break in period, i left running the break in dvd for around a week, i passed the 100hs mark already.
> 
> 
> So far so good, i see IR very quick on this set,though. leaving the tv menu for example, on a dark screen will get IR, but it goes away as soon as i get any picture on the screen.
> 
> I did game a while too, and so far, no IR lasted for longer than seconds. The biggest IR i got was a scoreboard from a soccer game i watched, which was gone after 30 min of watching normal programming.
> 
> 
> Anyways, this IR doesn´t even bother me, i can only see it on a completely dark room and on completely black screen. Sooner or later they go away. So far no IR on white, so as you can see no big deal at all.
> 
> 
> My conclusion:
> 
> IR and BI sounds 10x worst on the Internet and this forum. Unless you are using the tv as a Monitor or on a bright room you should go to plasma technology.
> 
> Black levels, contrast, are amazing! Nothing compared to my old LCD tv. Now i get that feeling when you say, " now i have to watch and play all my movies and games, again" because it´s like a night n day difference!
> 
> 
> really happy so far.



.. very good; glad you're enjoying your new set. your location made selecting a good one quite difficult. its understandable (of course), your discourse. yes, i'm recycling previous favorites also. best to you.


----------



## nFerno

Recently picked up a Samsung PN42A450, is there a certain length of time I should run the Break-In Disc?


I was reading elsewhere and apparently some people say new Samsung Plasmas / LCDs don't require to be broken in and should be ready for viewing right out of the box. Is there any truth to this or just Samsung hyping their TVs?


----------



## b_scott

most newer sets don't have any official break in notice, and shouldn't technically need it. doing it is up to you, but officially just follow your owner's manual.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nFerno* /forum/post/14013243
> 
> 
> Recently picked up a Samsung PN42A450, is there a certain length of time I should run the Break-In Disc?
> 
> 
> I was reading elsewhere and apparently some people say new Samsung Plasmas / LCDs don't require to be broken in and should be ready for viewing right out of the box. Is there any truth to this or just Samsung hyping their TVs?



just do it, you have nothing to loose. I ran the dvd for 1 week, everytime i was not watching the tv. I already hit 100hs marks.

Now i´m using the tv as a .. well... as a tv










Enjoy your set and don´t get this IR/BI bother you.


----------



## nFerno

Running the DVD now, might as well let it crank out when I'm away for the weekend. Better safe than sorry I'm sure.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nFerno* /forum/post/14013927
> 
> 
> Running the DVD now, might as well let it crank out when I'm away for the weekend. Better safe than sorry I'm sure.



exactly. You do it now and then you don´t think about IR/BI any more. Just be careful as you were with any other tv.


----------



## kyc123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14009883
> 
> 
> Your LG should have 3 IR prevention modes. Well, actually, one IR prevention mode and two IR removal modes.
> 
> 
> Go to Picture -> Options -> Image Sticking Minimization
> 
> 
> I have mine set for Orbit normally. It moves things around in an...Orbit...when the set detects a static image for too long.
> 
> 
> There is also a reverse mode which kind of looks like a film negative and...
> 
> 
> White wash. It is this latter mode that will probably fix your issue. As the name implies, it turns the entire screen bright white and washes away retained images. Try it for three minutes and see if that helps. If not, rinse and repeat.
> 
> 
> I talked with an LG tech rep about this issue and he really had no reason to give me bum scoop as he wasn't on commission. Anyway, he indicated that it would be darn near impossible to get true burn-in on any 2007+ model LG.
> 
> 
> There were a lot of technical reasons including pixel shifting ect, but the most basic one had to do with phosphor life. This current crop of sets has about 100k hours to 1/2 brightness. Which means that assuming you stuck a blazing red logo in the middle of a black background for 10 hours straight, you would burn through far less than 1/10,000th of that area's phosphor.
> 
> 
> His point was that, worst case, 9-12 hours of normal viewing should clear up the IR you are seeing. Or 2-8 minutes of using the white wash mode. He suggested 2 minutes, check, 3 minutes, check, and then a final 3 minutes.
> 
> 
> Please let us know how it turns out.
> 
> 
> pax,
> 
> rwr



Thank you for your very informative post. I didn't know that the white wash mode for 8 minutes equates to 12 hours of normal viewing... Good to know, just in case...


Good news is, the ring has disappeared after playing 3 hours of the break-in dvd... But I'm still a little scared about playing games on my set, so I'll play sparingly only once I hit 200 hours... just in case...


----------



## ShaidarHaran

Just swapped out my broken Philips 42" LCD for a Panny TH-42PZ80U and am blown away by the difference in image quality right off the bat. However, I have already seen IR in my limited use (less than an hour). I plan to follow most of the advice I've seen such as reducing settings, viewing only fullscreen content, and avoiding static images as much as possible. The problem I have is that myself and my roommate play a lot of games, particularly games that tend to have static images in the form of HUDs or similar. Panasonic says no gaming for the first 100 hours, and only 10% for the next 900.


I don't think there's any way I can pull that off... Chances are this thing is going to see games for at least half of its operating life, the remaining half will consist mostly of watching 2.35:1 aspect ratio Blu-ray movies, and a good portion watching HD cable with station logos, news/sports tickers, and channel guides on screen.


Is it even feasible for me to own a plasma?


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ShaidarHaran* /forum/post/14021466
> 
> 
> Just swapped out my broken Philips 42" LCD for a Panny TH-42PZ80U and am blown away by the difference in image quality right off the bat. However, I have already seen IR in my limited use (less than an hour). I plan to follow most of the advice I've seen such as reducing settings, viewing only fullscreen content, and avoiding static images as much as possible. The problem I have is that myself and my roommate play a lot of games, particularly games that tend to have static images in the form of HUDs or similar. Panasonic says no gaming for the first 100 hours, and only 10% for the next 900.
> 
> 
> I don't think there's any way I can pull that off... Chances are this thing is going to see games for at least half of its operating life, the remaining half will consist mostly of watching 2.35:1 aspect ratio Blu-ray movies, and a good portion watching HD cable with station logos, news/sports tickers, and channel guides on screen.
> 
> 
> Is it even feasible for me to own a plasma?



Don´t worry about it. think about this. if you watch a soccer game, you will have a scoreboard for almost 2hs.

if you watch a movie you will have black bars for 2hs, sometimes 3hs.


Games do have Hud, but you will also get Loading Scenes, Cutscenes, etc.


Don´t worry about it, really. have a samsung, i did the 100hs break in period, after that use it as a regular tv. really.


----------



## molson3530

Are there any guidelines on temperatures? My new TH-42PZ85U is in my new apartment with broken AC. The temperature gets to almost 90F. My PS3 running the break-in DVD is at almost full fan speed and I was wondering if it was worth risking looping the break in DVD over the weekend while I am out of town. If the PS3 freezes I foresee bad results. Anyone else have experience in this situation?


----------



## b_scott

if the PS3 freezes it'll still be on a solid color screen, so i don't know if that'd matter much. but i probably wouldn't risk it.


----------



## molson3530




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/14024458
> 
> 
> if the PS3 freezes it'll still be on a solid color screen, so i don't know if that'd matter much. but i probably wouldn't risk it.



That was what I was thinking. I would leave it off while I am gone and then continue the break in once the AC is fixed (it should have been working last week, you know one would think that it would be checked before you move in a new tenant....)


----------



## rwr1776

Shaidar,


You mentioned Panasonic giving you guidelines as in no gaming for 100 hours and only 10% for the next 900.


I'm curious, was that printed in a manual, did a CSR at the panasonic call center tell you that, or did you get the info elsewhere?


I ask for two reasons. First, call center CSRs are generally rated by how quickly they can get you off the phone w/o you getting pissed off. Giving you definitive information that matches your expectations is a good way to do that. I'd wager that if you called panasonic and said, "I just bought a new 85u and as I understand it these units are already broken in and are almost impossible to burn in. Do I need to do anything special?" The CSR would likely agree and send you happily on your way.


If a CSR says something opposite your leading question, then you can pretty much bet they know what they're talking about.


For example, having just bought a LG 60PG60, I called LG and asked if I needed to do anything special to take care of my new set? The CSR said, "No," explained why and went away happy.


A few days later, I read some posts in this thread and got a bit concerned so called LG back and asked, "Shouldn't I make a break in disk and be careful the first 100 hours or so to allow the Phosphor to age uniformly?" CSR's response was that I could do that if it made me feel better, but that it wasn't necessary and that I'd have a hard time creating any permanent damage with normal use. He then went on to explain some of LGs IR preventative and elimination features.


Net Net, even when I tried to lead him one way, he went the other. Make of it what you will, but before you get too freaked out, you might try calling back and asking the question another way. Of course, if your manual actually states what you posted, then I would follow it to the letter 


But 900 hours...sheesh...that's a long long time.


----------



## molson3530




rwr1776 said:


> Shaidar,
> 
> 
> You mentioned Panasonic giving you guidelines as in no gaming for 100 hours and only 10% for the next 900.
> 
> 
> I'm curious, was that printed in a manual, did a CSR at the panasonic call center tell you that, or did you get the info elsewhere?
> 
> 
> I am guessing that he is referring to this http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documen...nd%20Myths.pdf
> 
> It was posted on the first page of this thread and says the same thing.


----------



## rwr1776

Holy Cats...that was from 2004, which is a geological age ago in terms of Plasma technology.


I'm not qualified to say it's not still a true statement, mind you, but I'd be looking for something published no earlier than 2007.


----------



## ShaidarHaran

Thanks all for the useful information (especially booker!)


I turned everything to 50 or less last night and watched Requiem for a Dream. Color was great. Black levels were phenomenal! Having the picture setting so low tended to blur things more than I would like, though. Can't wait to get past the first 100 hours to really start using it!


No signs of burn-in so far, only a bit of image retention from letting the whole credits play (to hear the score) that's sure to disappear soon.


Oh, and I am reassured now that I've used the set a bit more. I'm not going to worry about any break-in beyond 100 hours.


----------



## b_scott

kinda bugs me when i read people posting things like "can't wait till so-and-so hours so i can start REALLY watching my TV!"


i say watch your tv regularly from the start, taking care with things you should always do, like not having static images for extended periods of time. seems like people think you should baby your set for 200 hours then you can abuse it all you want. i mean, what do you plan on doing with it after 200 hours that you wouldn't now? i think you should just treat it normally all the time, and you'll be fine. don't turn up brightness or contrast too much, etc.


----------



## ShaidarHaran




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/14027479
> 
> 
> kinda bugs me when i read people posting things like "can't wait till so-and-so hours so i can start REALLY watching my TV!"
> 
> 
> i say watch your tv regularly from the start, taking care with things you should always do, like not having static images for extended periods of time. seems like people think you should baby your set for 200 hours then you can abuse it all you want. i mean, what do you plan on doing with it after 200 hours that you wouldn't now? i think you should just treat it normally all the time, and you'll be fine. don't turn up brightness or contrast too much, etc.



That's what I mean though. By "using my tv" I mean I won't have to worry about how I use it, I'll just be able to use it. I'll be able to turn up the contrast & sharpness settings as I see fit, and get the best PQ possible from my tv instead of having to gimp it so as not to damage it.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/14027479
> 
> 
> kinda bugs me when i read people posting things like "can't wait till so-and-so hours so i can start REALLY watching my TV!"
> 
> 
> i say watch your tv regularly from the start, taking care with things you should always do, like not having static images for extended periods of time. seems like people think you should baby your set for 200 hours then you can abuse it all you want. i mean, what do you plan on doing with it after 200 hours that you wouldn't now? i think you should just treat it normally all the time, and you'll be fine. don't turn up brightness or contrast too much, etc.



well easy answer actually, and you should know...

the answer is Gaming!


the 1st 100hs i didn´t have much, i didn´t even played GTA4 because the hud. After the 100hs you can do it.


so that´s is the answer.


----------



## wzpgsr

I am unable to determine if my Pioneer 5080HD is afflicted with temporary IR, burn-in, or the somewhat-common Kuro "blotching" issue. When the display is completely black, I can see a fuzzy "blotch" roughly in the middle of the screen that is somewhat darker than the surrounding area. Also, there is an even slightly lighter bar across the bottom of the screen that appears to correspond to the position of the lower black bar seen when viewing 2.35:1 content. However, there is not a lighter bar across the the top of the screen. The attached image is a rough approximation of what I see, but it is not really this drastically noticeable, and is only noticeable when the screen is completely or mostly black.


I have never seen what I believe to be typical signs of IR and/or burn-in. For instance, I've never seen a logo, colored bars from news channels, or static images from video games stick around for very long at all.


__
https://flic.kr/p/2556790938
​

If this is merely uneven wear, can someone recommend a safe procedure for making the wear more even?


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/14027479
> 
> 
> kinda bugs me when i read people posting things like "can't wait till so-and-so hours so i can start REALLY watching my TV!"
> 
> 
> i say watch your tv regularly from the start, taking care with things you should always do, like not having static images for extended periods of time. seems like people think you should baby your set for 200 hours then you can abuse it all you want. i mean, what do you plan on doing with it after 200 hours that you wouldn't now? i think you should just treat it normally all the time, and you'll be fine. don't turn up brightness or contrast too much, etc.



+1 though I will say a PLASMA is made to enjoy full screen HD and Sports , but you do have to watch out for lOGO'S







and gaming , well you are on your own there.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ShaidarHaran* /forum/post/14027626
> 
> 
> That's what I mean though. By "using my tv" I mean I won't have to worry about how I use it, I'll just be able to use it. I'll be able to turn up the contrast & sharpness settings as I see fit, and get the best PQ possible from my tv instead of having to gimp it so as not to damage it.




I set my 4270 to D-Nice settings from the get go and made sure I watched everything in Full Screen . I just had the pannel replaced and I am doing the same . I did get IR on the old pannel ,but that was 5 hours of the NFL draft with a very bright stagnant Logo


----------



## WBL

I just purchased a PDP-5010FD and powered it up last night.


It seems that many of the cable channels such as the Science channel, TCM, and so on, like to put their station logo in the lower right corner of the screen. Most of the station logos are in a gray/shadow text. Do I need to be concerned about plasma burn-in from these station logos? I hear that the new plasma displays such as the 5010 have very few issues with burn in. Can someone please set me straight about the station logos and the current state of plasma burn-in?


I have not yet run any of the burn in images that have been referred to on AVSFORUM. FYI, when I first viewed a cable program on my 5010, there was so much color (primarily red) that I thought I was was watching a movie of clowns. It has been running for about 24 hours non stop now and the red color now seems to be normal and the displayed image is impressive. I just thought that I would add that info for reference.


Comment if you like on the color but please let me know about the logos and the current state of burn-in.


WBL


----------



## b_scott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/14030137
> 
> 
> +1 though I will say a PLASMA is made to enjoy full screen HD and Sports , but you do have to watch out for lOGO'S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and gaming , well you are on your own there.



99% of logos are semi-transparent and are sporadic (plus commercials), so no worries there. plus unless you watched a channel for 12 hours straight i doubt it would matter much anyway. ditto with games, in that you won't be playing the same game that long, or even if you did most games have limited, transparent or fully off HUD specifically because of new HDTV's. for example Devil May Cry 4 only shows HUD when you're fighting people, same as GTAIV and others.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *briansemerick* /forum/post/14037158
> 
> 
> 99% of logos are semi-transparent and are sporadic (plus commercials), so no worries there. plus unless you watched a channel for 12 hours straight i doubt it would matter much anyway. ditto with games, in that you won't be playing the same game that long, or even if you did most games have limited, transparent or fully off HUD specifically because of new HDTV's. for example Devil May Cry 4 only shows HUD when you're fighting people, same as GTAIV and others.



plus, you have loading scenes, cutscenes, etc.. hud are not always on all your gaming session.


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/14030163
> 
> 
> I set my 4270 to D-Nice settings from the get go and made sure I watched everything in Full Screen . I just had the pannel replaced and I am doing the same . I did get IR on the old pannel ,but that was 5 hours of the NFL draft with a very bright stagnant Logo



wid you have the panel replaced? That PDP is only ~ 2years old, right?


----------



## booker21

i´m new to plasma technelogy and i saw pictures of IR on white screens.

My question is when you have IR on white screens and when on dark screens?


so far i saw plently of IR on black screen, but none on white screen. When you see it on white screens means IR was more severe? or what determinate if the IR will be visible on white or dark?


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *E-A-G-L-E-S* /forum/post/14038435
> 
> 
> wid you have the panel replaced? That PDP is only ~ 2years old, right?



The pannel is 15 months old , I had the 1 year Pioneer waranty , and it developed a thin black line across the screen. I call Pio service and even though it was out of waranty , they still ok'd to have an authorized Pio service fix the pannel . They couldn't fix it so they repaced the plasma pannel . Took less than 2 weeks . They even show me the old screen and how they replaced it . The reason they fixed it ( out of waranty) was because I had to have the power board replaced when it was 10 months old . So I have had issues ,but each time Pio fixed it .







no charge


----------



## avs2avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/14042226
> 
> 
> The pannel is 15 months old , I had the 1 year Pioneer waranty , and it developed a thin black line across the screen. I call Pio service and even though it was out of waranty , they still ok'd to have an authorized Pio service fix the pannel . They couldn't fix it so they repaced the plasma pannel . Took less than 2 weeks . They even show me the old screen and how they replaced it . The reason they fixed it ( out of waranty) was because I had to have the power board replaced when it was 10 months old . So I have had issues ,but each time Pio fixed it .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no charge



Did they replace the power board in your home or did they take the PDP with them?


----------



## rwr1776

So, I've read through this thread and a few others in this forum on the topic of _IR, Burn-in, and Break-in period_s. Unfortunately, I'm still a bit confused.


I have one of the new LG PG60s that just came out. There is no mention of IR, Burn-in, or a Break-in period in the manual. I called LG and asked their CSR and their answers to my questions about the three areas above were:

1) IR can happen but should fade w/in a few minutes

2) Burn-in doesn't happen without material abuse, i.e, leaving a static screen like a Video Game displayed without Orbital protection turned on for 10+ hours.

3) No Break-in period required because the phosphors were "pre aged by the baking process used during manufacturing"


Their answers were comforting, but this thread has me a wee bit paranoid since I have this plasma set up as our main family unit and can't stand guard over it 24/7. *Do their answers seem accurate to folks here?*


I will say that I have noticed IR in the following four situations:

1) My son was watching MTV-HD and they have a bright magenta and green logo bug in the right corner. He was watching it for about an hour and when I changed channels I saw a latent image for about a minute, then it was gone.

2) Same situation but with History-HD channel which has a flaming RED logo bug.

3) Same situation but with AMC-HD where they shifted a 2.35:1 movie to the top of the screen and used the bottom portion to display interesting facts about the movie. Unfortunately they also put a bright torch neon of death with several vertical lines in the lower left corner. After displaying this fixed image for even 5 minutes I could see a latent image on a different blank screen for about 30 seconds or so.

4) Watched a 2 hour blu-ray movie with 2:35:1 aspect so there were black bars at top and bottom. After the movie was over and I went to a solid blank screen I could see that the top and bottom of the screen were slightly lighter. This lasted about a minute.


I am, admittedly, new to plasmas, but I really just want to enjoy my set and not be worried about it like a toddler in a mine field. The latent images I mentioned above don't bother me in the slightest, *but I want to be sure that the speed with which they fade is a sign of the unit's resiliency rather than a warning.* By way of a test, I tested the History-HD and MTV-HD, scenarios on showroom panasonics, samsungs, and pioneers and they all showed latent images, which cleared up too, but did so slightly slower than on my LG.


In terms of built in tools. The LG has three:

1) Orbiter (which I have turned on)

2) Inversion (which reverses an image)

3) White Wash


I've rambled a bit so will go back and bold some specific areas for the local experts to key on if they are kind enough to respond to my worries 


pax,

rwr


btw...why the hell would HD channels put logo Bugs on their content that could damage folks HD displays? Discovery Channel seems to have their stuff together with their translucent spinning globe.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14042922
> 
> 
> So, I've read through this thread and a few others in this forum on the topic of _IR, Burn-in, and Break-in period_s. Unfortunately, I'm still a bit confused.
> 
> 
> I have one of the new LG PG60s that just came out. There is no mention of IR, Burn-in, or a Break-in period in the manual. I called LG and asked their CSR and their answers to my questions about the three areas above were:
> 
> 1) IR can happen but should fade w/in a few minutes
> 
> 2) Burn-in doesn't happen without material abuse, i.e, leaving a static screen like a Video Game displayed without Orbital protection turned on for 10+ hours.
> 
> 3) No Break-in period required because the phosphors were "pre aged by the baking process used during manufacturing"
> 
> 
> Their answers were comforting, but this thread has me a wee bit paranoid since I have this plasma set up as our main family unit and can't stand guard over it 24/7. *Do their answers seem accurate to folks here?*
> 
> 
> I will say that I have noticed IR in the following four situations:
> 
> 1) My son was watching MTV-HD and they have a bright magenta and green logo bug in the right corner. He was watching it for about an hour and when I changed channels I saw a latent image for about a minute, then it was gone.
> 
> 2) Same situation but with History-HD channel which has a flaming RED logo bug.
> 
> 3) Same situation but with AMC-HD where they shifted a 2.35:1 movie to the top of the screen and used the bottom portion to display interesting facts about the movie. Unfortunately they also put a bright torch neon of death with several vertical lines in the lower left corner. After displaying this fixed image for even 5 minutes I could see a latent image on a different blank screen for about 30 seconds or so.
> 
> 4) Watched a 2 hour blu-ray movie with 2:35:1 aspect so there were black bars at top and bottom. After the movie was over and I went to a solid blank screen I could see that the top and bottom of the screen were slightly lighter. This lasted about a minute.
> 
> 
> I am, admittedly, new to plasmas, but I really just want to enjoy my set and not be worried about it like a toddler in a mine field. The latent images I mentioned above don't bother me in the slightest, *but I want to be sure that the speed with which they fade is a sign of the unit's resiliency rather than a warning.* By way of a test, I tested the History-HD and MTV-HD, scenarios on showroom panasonics, samsungs, and pioneers and they all showed latent images, which cleared up too, but did so slightly slower than on my LG.
> 
> 
> In terms of built in tools. The LG has three:
> 
> 1) Orbiter (which I have turned on)
> 
> 2) Inversion (which reverses an image)
> 
> 3) White Wash
> 
> 
> I've rambled a bit so will go back and bold some specific areas for the local experts to key on if they are kind enough to respond to my worries
> 
> 
> pax,
> 
> rwr
> 
> 
> btw...why the hell would HD channels put logo Bugs on their content that could damage folks HD displays? Discovery Channel seems to have their stuff together with their translucent spinning globe.



nice post, i would like to know the answers as well.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N

I've had my 58" Samsung PN58A550 since last Tuesday. I've been running the Breakin DVD since about Thursday whenever I'm not using the TV and I'm approaching 100 hours (should hit it today).


I'm already noticing the time that IR is their reducing. For example when I first got the TV the I was in the PS3 XMB and the image in the lower right corner for my background showed IR and it took about 5-6 mins of running the breakin DVD for it to go away. Now the IR left by the same image in the same amount of time is much less noticeable and completely disappears with 1-2 mins of running the breakin DVD.


Thanks for this, it is an awesome DVD and is really helping me. My ONLY concern with Plasma was with IR and Burn in and seeing the changes already is making me feel so much better. Everything I watch on this TV looks amazing. I've watched a few movies and their great and I watched some HD Cable and its great. Last night I also played Ninja Gaiden 2 on my Xbox 360 and after playing for about 80mins I had zero IR.


Thanks!!!


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N1GHTRA1N* /forum/post/14045876
> 
> 
> I've had my 58" Samsung PN58A550 since last Tuesday. I've been running the Breakin DVD since about Thursday whenever I'm not using the TV and I'm approaching 100 hours (should hit it today).
> 
> 
> I'm already noticing the time that IR is their reducing. For example when I first got the TV the I was in the PS3 XMB and the image in the lower right corner for my background showed IR and it took about 5-6 mins of running the breakin DVD for it to go away. Now the IR left by the same image in the same amount of time is much less noticeable and completely disappears with 1-2 mins of running the breakin DVD.
> 
> 
> Thanks for this, it is an awesome DVD and is really helping me. My ONLY concern with Plasma was with IR and Burn in and seeing the changes already is making me feel so much better. Everything I watch on this TV looks amazing. I've watched a few movies and their great and I watched some HD Cable and its great. Last night I also played Ninja Gaiden 2 on my Xbox 360 and after playing for about 80mins I had zero IR.
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!



I can´t say i don´t have IR, but when i have, it fade away really quick. After 2hs of soccer game with a Ultra white scoreboard it took only 10 to 15 min to completly fade away.

and still, the IR i get is really hard to see, i have to turn all my light off and put my nose on the tv.


I´m really happy i chose plasma over lcd. Black level, contrast, PQ is sooo much better..


----------



## mrjktcvs

How much is too much?


I was watching the Kingdom of Heaven blu-ray last night, and with its 2.35:1 aspect ratio, there are black bars above and below the viewable content. I was annoying my girlfriend last night by periodically switching from normal mode to zoom so that the content would fill the entire screen, which of course stretches the image to an unnatual aspect ratio.


Was I going to far in preventing burn-in? My Pioneer 5010 has about 24 hours on it.


----------



## b_scott

i watch 2.35 movies all the time since my 5010's birth, and i have 200+ hours on it with not a hint of IR. i wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N

I think if you have your contrast down you'll be fine. I've ran the break in dvd for over 90 hours and I've watched 4 movies, all of them but one was 2.35:1 so bars were on top and bottom and I didn't mind.


I setup my HD PVR STB to display 4:3 content in 480p and I've set the TV to display light grey bars on the side instead of the normal black ones the STB likes to use. When I watch HD channels with 4:3 content on them the bars are black but that doesn't happen for log periods of time anyway.


The way I look at it is like this. It is a TV and you should enjoy it, if all you do is obsess of IR and burn in you didn't buy the right TV for your obsessive compulsive personality.


IR will happen regardless, but goes away. Burn in requires abuse or stupidity.


----------



## bottoms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avs2avs* /forum/post/14042565
> 
> 
> Did they replace the power board in your home or did they take the PDP with them?



The power board was done in my house .The board went bad on a Saturday and on Thursday they came and replaced it. The plasma screen was replaced in the shop , 2 week turn around


----------



## indij

I'm running the burn-in DVD on my new Kuro 5010 and I'm seeing banding. If that's not the right term then consider it non-uniform screen. I've also read something about streaks. But it looks more like a band. There are a couple of dark horizontal lines about 3/4" in the center of screen. I'll try to post a picture if I can. Is this acceptable for a Kuro or should this be going back because it's a defect?


----------



## avs2avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bottoms* /forum/post/14048896
> 
> 
> The power board was done in my house .The board went bad on a Saturday and on Thursday they came and replaced it. The plasma screen was replaced in the shop , 2 week turn around



Thanks, good to know how they handle these things.

I have a perfect panel so far with no dead or off pixels and a 2 year warranty.


----------



## avs2avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indij* /forum/post/14052735
> 
> 
> I'm running the burn-in DVD on my new Kuro 5010 and I'm seeing banding. If that's not the right term then consider it non-uniform screen. I've also read something about streaks. But it looks more like a band. There are a couple of dark horizontal lines about 3/4" in the center of screen. I'll try to post a picture if I can. Is this acceptable for a Kuro or should this be going back because it's a defect?



Post a picture.

I'm running the break-in dvd on the 1150. The screen is clean with no banding, streaks, lines or dead/off pixels.

Give it a day or two, some of these things clear up by themselves.

Also, play a dvd movie and watch an HD show and pause them on a bright image to see if these lines are still visible. If they are still there, then you may want to exchange the panel.


----------



## indij

Here's the images. Focus on the center of the screen. There is a darker band in the center and a smaller one below it. There are other areas which might be not clear in the pics but more obvious in reality.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indij* /forum/post/14054733
> 
> 
> Here's the images. Focus on the center of the screen. There is a darker band in the center and a smaller one below it. There are other areas which might be not clear in the pics but more obvious in reality.



I had a 6070 that did that. Pioneer techs said it was well within the normal specs of the TV. I had a repair company come out that verified it interfered with normal viewing (even though it had to be an all white screen to interfer, they left that part out). Pioneer then swapped the TV out for me and gave me a 6010 instead.


I've read other banding/streaking threads and it appears the stance from TV manufacturers appear to be that it is within normal tolerance. I would still call them to have the TV checked. They will probably replace tons of boards (they did in mine).


----------



## jaivee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indij* /forum/post/14054733
> 
> 
> Here's the images. Focus on the center of the screen. There is a darker band in the center and a smaller one below it. There are other areas which might be not clear in the pics but more obvious in reality.



I had this problem with a panasonic plasma, but it was vertical, and it was only 1 line. This seems to be a defect in the glass. Just exchange.


----------



## creakyneck

I just received my 6010 last monday and am about 100 hours into the Break-in DVD, but also see this effect as well. It isn't something I can see during what little "normal" viewing I've done, but does seem to be similarly placed. I thought at first that since I first noticed it at the display top, that the local dealer (who runs them for a time just to make sure nothing is wrong), might have run the dreaded "black bars" for a bit and was a little bit of IR. Looking at yours though makes me think that this is just a "normal variation", as they've said.


----------



## avs2avs

indij, I don't think you will ever see those during regular viewing even if you tried. However, if it bothers you, get it exchanged.


----------



## adam320

I am getting ready to purchase a 58 inch samsung 650. I am moving into an new house in a few weeks, and to take advantage of BB's 3 year no interest deal I am going to buy it now. Is there anything wrong with setting it up now, and then packing it up and moving it again in a couple weeks, especially if it isnt fully broken in yet? I know this is probably a stupid question I just dont to mess anything up. Thanks.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam320* /forum/post/14062965
> 
> 
> I am getting ready to purchase a 58 inch samsung 650. I am moving into an new house in a few weeks, and to take advantage of BB's 3 year no interest deal I am going to buy it now. Is there anything wrong with setting it up now, and then packing it up and moving it again in a couple weeks, especially if it isnt fully broken in yet? I know this is probably a stupid question I just dont to mess anything up. Thanks.



Moving it is fine, just remember to keep it upright at all time. Never lay a plasma TV flat down, a 15-20 degree tilt the the maximum you should ever go. Laying it flat, even for a short time, might cause damage.


Good idea to get it now and break it in that way you can use it to the max when you get it to its new home.


----------



## adam320




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N1GHTRA1N* /forum/post/14063173
> 
> 
> Moving it is fine, just remember to keep it upright at all time. Never lay a plasma TV flat down, a 15-20 degree tilt the the maximum you should ever go. Laying it flat, even for a short time, might cause damage.
> 
> 
> Good idea to get it now and break it in that way you can use it to the max when you get it to its new home.



Thank you for the response. Reading this thread has me scared to look at the thing cross-eyed... The Samsung website says there isnt a break-in period. I hardly ever play games, so do I really just need to make sure I dont watch anything with bars or with stationary graphics, and if I do will turning the "pixel shifter" on keep it safe? Also this may be really dumb but does the tv keep track of how many hours it has been on in the menu somewhere, or do people just keep track how long they have used it on their own? Thanks again.


----------



## indij




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avs2avs* /forum/post/14058039
> 
> 
> indij, I don't think you will ever see those during regular viewing even if you tried. However, if it bothers you, get it exchanged.



I tried and I did manage to see it on a couple of occasions on brighter scenes. But you're right, most of the time I don't notice it.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam320* /forum/post/14063237
> 
> 
> Thank you for the response. Reading this thread has me scared to look at the thing cross-eyed... The Samsung website says there isnt a break-in period. I hardly ever play games, so do I really just need to make sure I dont watch anything with bars or with stationary graphics, and if I do will turning the "pixel shifter" on keep it safe? Also this may be really dumb but does the tv keep track of how many hours it has been on in the menu somewhere, or do people just keep track how long they have used it on their own? Thanks again.



Unless you ABUSE the TV by leaving static images on the screen for HOURS or maybe even DAYS you'll be fine. I played The Bourne Conspiracy on Xbox 360 last night and after playing for almost 2 hours I had a little IR left in the lower right hand corner on a blank black screen from the health/adrenaline meter. I watched TV right after and couldn't see the image at all, after 10 mins of watching TV I could no longer see the IR on the blank black screen either, it may have been gone much quicker than that but I don't know. Also even on a blank black screen I could only see the IR if I was less than a foot away from the TV and really looking at the IR area.


As for the number of hours, I just estimate but you can check in the service menu on Samsung TV's but it will reset all settings to factory default which is why I don't. Some other TV's have the options in the menus, I know many DLP's did, I can't say I know of any plasmas that do for sure.


----------



## teddyc23

I have a 50" Panasonic plasma that is fairly new and have been careful with it. I bought a PS3 last weekend and played some Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Less than 2 hours total spread between 3 times playing. I noticed that now there is a faint ghost image (I would assume IR) of the health bar on a black screen. I have been watching some TV and it seems to be faiding very slowly. Does anyone have a break in video I can run on the PS3? I was thinking after I play for a bit I could run it to help even things out and to put more hours on the plasma to make it les of a problem in the future. Thanks


Teddy


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *teddyc23* /forum/post/14074563
> 
> 
> I have a 50" Panasonic plasma that is fairly new and have been careful with it. I bought a PS3 last weekend and played some Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Less than 2 hours total spread between 3 times playing. I noticed that now there is a faint ghost image (I would assume IR) of the health bar on a black screen. I have been watching some TV and it seems to be faiding very slowly. Does anyone have a break in video I can run on the PS3? I was thinking after I play for a bit I could run it to help even things out and to put more hours on the plasma to make it les of a problem in the future. Thanks
> 
> 
> Teddy



Teddy,

You should do the 100hs break in period before gaming. After that you should be ok.


i think you should be able to run any dvd from the ps3, including a homemade break in dvd.


----------



## teddyc23

I was thinking of using the break in JPEGS as a slideshow on the PS3. Anyone done this?


----------



## b_scott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14077605
> 
> 
> Teddy,
> 
> You should do the 100hs break in period before gaming. After that you should be ok.
> 
> 
> i think you should be able to run any dvd from the ps3, including a homemade break in dvd.



or don't worry about it at all. i've played my 360 from day one for over 250 hours and mine's fine.


----------



## booker21

this should work.


briansemerick,

while i do agree this IR/BI and break in period may be not necessary... it better to be safe than sorry.


honestly i had nothing to loose, so i did it.


if you can, enjoy the tv and forget about IR... it fade away sooner or later.


----------



## charr33

Just picked up my new 5010 today and am gonna start breaking it in (either by downloading one of those DVD's or just watching full screen non-static image TV at less than 50% brightness/contrast etc) but was wondering, as has been asked before throughout this thread, but never really answered 100%, is there a feature on the 5010 which will tell me how many hours it has been used?


This is of greater interest to me than just for the sake of break in, as the store I bought it from was selling demo models. I insisted on a new one and they said they didnt have any. After much negotiating and checking inventories, they said they found a new one which I bought. So I want to verify that they really DID give me a new one, and not just a cleaned up demo.


Which leads me to my second related question. Assuming there is an "odometer" on these TV's, from the factory are they set at zero? Or do they already have some hours on them from factory testing etc. (much like a new car has usually 15 miles on it when you pick it up)


Thanks and sorry for the somewhat dumb question (My noob-ness is hard to hide...)


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *charr33* /forum/post/14084008
> 
> 
> Just picked up my new 5010 today and am gonna start breaking it in (either by downloading one of those DVD's or just watching full screen non-static image TV at less than 50% brightness/contrast etc) but was wondering, as has been asked before throughout this thread, but never really answered 100%, is there a feature on the 5010 which will tell me how many hours it has been used?
> 
> 
> This is of greater interest to me than just for the sake of break in, as the store I bought it from was selling demo models. I insisted on a new one and they said they didnt have any. After much negotiating and checking inventories, they said they found a new one which I bought. So I want to verify that they really DID give me a new one, and not just a cleaned up demo.
> 
> 
> Which leads me to my second related question. Assuming there is an "odometer" on these TV's, from the factory are they set at zero? Or do they already have some hours on them from factory testing etc. (much like a new car has usually 15 miles on it when you pick it up)
> 
> 
> Thanks and sorry for the somewhat dumb question (My noob-ness is hard to hide...)



The only way to look is to enter the service menu. They are set at 0. I personally would not recommend you enter the service menu though. You hit 1 wrong thing in that menu and you can brick your TV. I have read several cases of this happening.


----------



## Jaye71

Hey all, I think I may have experienced burn-in on my TV. I know it isn't the greatest brand, but I bought the 32" vizio plasma because of sized constraints in the bedroom. I ran the break-in DVD for over 100 hours when I first got the set, and for the first 2 weeks I was pretty careful with what I was watching. Unfortunately, the TV still seems to have experienced burn in. The misses likes to fall asleep while watching TV and she doesn't set the sleep timer, So I am assuming that the logo image for soap net was left on for a good 8 hours. It has been a week since I noticed the logo on the screen (black screen), and I have run the image cleaner each day for several hours. I have also ran the break-in DVD for about 6 hours. In addition, I have watched regular TV each day for the past week to no avail. I really thought burn-in was a thing of the past with plasmas, but it was a huge concern on mine with buying one. Anyone have any ideas, or is the image permanently there?


----------



## flip034

i have some ir on my 60 inch vizio from some 4:3 viewing with black bars that is only noticable on a bright backgroun, have been using pixel protector dvd and it seems to be clearing a bit. would the break in dvd help my cause?


----------



## Glashub

I’d really appreciate your help. I downloaded the iso file and then extracted it. There's an iso image file and a mds file. I can't open the mds file and I don't what it is or what it's for. So I burned the iso to a dvd-r using roxio. Tested it and it seems to work fine. Did I do it right? Will the dvd-r run 24 hours and loop? I'm using an Onkyo 805 HD-DVD player. I don't think it loops but I'll check.


Thanks


----------



## charr33




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak* /forum/post/14084039
> 
> 
> The only way to look is to enter the service menu. They are set at 0. I personally would not recommend you enter the service menu though. You hit 1 wrong thing in that menu and you can brick your TV. I have read several cases of this happening.



Interesting. Ok well now that I have the TV I am even more skeptical that it may not be brand new. The screen looks like it has been cleaned with windex or something (streaky) and one of the mounting screw holes looks scratched as if it has been previously mounted.


So I would like to at least read up on the service menu thingy.

a) do you know how to access the service menu and check this stat?

b) can you link to a thread which discusses this "bricking" issue. (and service menu in general)


Thanks!


----------



## Bluray Rulez




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indij* /forum/post/14054733
> 
> 
> Here's the images. Focus on the center of the screen. There is a darker band in the center and a smaller one below it. There are other areas which might be not clear in the pics but more obvious in reality.



I have this same problem. I too just bought a 5010. I am currently running the break-in DVD. I currenlty am into it about 20 hours. I hope as time progresses that it get's better. Should I not bother and exchange it? I noticed it doesn't have any dead/stuck pixels. That's one of the reasons I am hoping that the 'banding' goes away. I haven't watched any regular TV or HDTV. I am waiting for the full 150 hours before I enjoy HDTV.


----------



## Razman

Add me to the list. I have a 5010 and i have seen it on a all white screen. I do not notice it in regular viewing.


----------



## mrjgs

I know this post is a bit outdated, but I just got a great deal on the TH50PZ77U at CCity. I was having a war within my head with LED vrs. Plasma, and the deal was so good, I just went with this plasma.


I was warned by the saleswoman about burn-in with plasma TVs, but she also said that the technology has come a long way and most companies have addressed this. When I got home I read the users manual, and sure enough there are warnings about the burn-in when you leave stagnent images and also the 4:3 mode with the side bars. My question is why do they have this 4:3 mode with most of the non-HD channels use, if I have to now worry about burn-in.... So now I feel I have to police this new plasma TV when the kids watch it and there are side bars in 4:3 mode... What the heck am I doing for this price and me finally taking a big step and getting a plasma HD TV!!!


Has anybody sufferred burn-in with the TH50PZ77U. What can I do to avoid this in terms of set up, I believe the default settings help (light colored side-bars and turn-off if no interaction with the TV), so the likeliness of burn-in doesn't happen, but am I worrying for no reason? How many hours does burn-in happen?


Somebody please explain, and I'm real sorry if I'm on the wrong forum.


-- john


----------



## pumbaa071

i bought an insignia pdp42 for a 3rd bedroom for basic movie watching. while running the setup menu i am getting very bad IR. its not able to be seen while watching tv or anything but with a pure black screen its HORRIBLE! i just downloaded the break in dvd and im white washing the screen right now. is it normal for IR at the begining and it goes away over time or is it just a fact of cheap plasma tvs?



edit: the white wash pretty much cleared it all out. just a little left but im sure it will go away. also there looks like some uneven lighting or something on the side i will try and get a pic looks odd but again might just be IR because it cant be seen with normal viewing.


----------



## RYU583

hello...maybe someone could help me


i downloaded the break in file...when i burnt it on the dvd......the colors only lasted for a flash...


it cycles through the colors at blazing speed lol


any idea on how the fix this?


thanks


----------



## asystole13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *charr33* /forum/post/14087824
> 
> 
> Interesting. Ok well now that I have the TV I am even more skeptical that it may not be brand new. The screen looks like it has been cleaned with windex or something (streaky) and one of the mounting screw holes looks scratched as if it has been previously mounted.
> 
> 
> So I would like to at least read up on the service menu thingy.
> 
> a) do you know how to access the service menu and check this stat?
> 
> b) can you link to a thread which discusses this "bricking" issue. (and service menu in general)
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Try this at your own risk!


Enter the Service Menu

Start with the plasma turned OFF

Make sure you point the remote directly at the IR sensor in the tv


Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold)

Wait 3 seconds

Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER


If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed


----------



## asystole13

here's the directions to see the hours.


Pioneer service menu (how to check for hours on your panel)


To check the hours on your plasma, go into the Service Menu


Start with the plasma turned OFF

Make sure you point the remote directly at the IR sensor in the tv


Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold)

Wait 3 seconds

Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER


If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed


Then use the down arrow to page through to page 5

PANEL = the time the set has been on

MTB = the time the set has been plugged in


When you finish press the HOME MENU button


BE CAREFUL NOT TO CHANGE ANY SETTINGS! JUST LOOK!


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYU583* /forum/post/14095629
> 
> 
> hello...maybe someone could help me
> 
> 
> i downloaded the break in file...when i burnt it on the dvd......the colors only lasted for a flash...
> 
> 
> it cycles through the colors at blazing speed lol
> 
> 
> any idea on how the fix this?
> 
> 
> thanks



.. download the .iso version of 'break-in DVD' & ImgBurn, a free program and worth holding on to. Load Imgburn program, then unzip break-in DVD .. double-click on MDS File (5kb). Should initiate Imgburn program & load .iso file (transparently); click-on top/left guide of ImgBurn to next screen. load DVD-R and then click botton 'large arrow right' at bottom. program will do its work to burn DVD.










add: http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download


----------



## t1no

Just got a 46pz85u and will run the break-in dvd but i am wondering, what should i put for my contrast and brightness? or anything else i need to do?


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *t1no* /forum/post/14106050
> 
> 
> Just got a 46pz85u and will run the break-in dvd but i am wondering, what should i put for my contrast and brightness? or anything else i need to do?



I believe on the new Panasonics the settings range from 0-100 right? If so, switch the set into "Standard" mode (it may be in Vivid from the factory) and turn contrast/picture to something like 30-40. Brightness should be fine at 50.


Also set your source (DirecTV, cable box, etc) to grey side bars on SD channels, and set the TV to do the same.


If you watch an SD or 4:3 show, use the stretch or zoom features to fill in the screen. Same goes for widescreen movies with letterboxing, zoom those in to fill the screen.


Take it easy on the set for a few weeks, then change the settings to your liking and enjoy it.


jeff


----------



## shoreflor

Just got a PX80u 2 weeks ago. I've been following the rules of break-in - full screen, decreased levels using Standard, no logos, no CNN scrolls etc.


Apparently, my hdbox had been set for 4:3. Yesterday The Cable Guy (kinda like Jim Carrey) came in and "fixed" the settings to 16:9, after I old him I wanted it at 4:3 until I broke it in. Actually, I've had more than 100 hours on it.


He kept fiddlin around with the settings, and told me to use the cable settings for zoom etc. rather than the tvs.


Wake up this morning for my usual full-screen HBO break-in and what do I see...One vertical black bar about 2 inches think on left side of tv (none on right).


After all this time, I'm really annoyed that this should happen. Not noticeable in darkened room at night, but in daytime - It's there. It was NOT there yesterday. Makes me think - LCD - except PQ is excellent for HD (some noise for SD).


I'm thinking of returning this tv. I have about 1 day left before it's mine for good. I got it at Sears, extended warranty.


Any suggestions, similar experience?:


----------



## greenjp

I'm totally confused re. the cable box, 16:9 vs 4:3, etc. You told the cable guy you wanted it at 4:3?


Anyway let's think about what you're seeing. There's a 2" wide vertical bar on the left side of the screen. You describe it as "black". Is it literally black, as in no image at all? Or is it displaying the picture, just a shade darker than the rest of the screen?


If it's the latter, how could it have gotten there? You say you've been watching full screen content exclusively, so no pillar box bars right?


If that is the case, then it can't be IR or burn in, because the set hasn't displayed anything with that pattern that would cause it. It's not like a station logo, or the 4:3 pillar box bar pattern.


So what else could it be? Possibly a random failure in the panel, I don't know anything about how they work that would explain what you see, but it could be something goofy like that.


The other possibility is that it's a shadow. On my set, when the recessed lighting in the room is bright, the bezel casts a well defined shadow across the top ~1" of the screen, making it appear darker than the rest. Do you have a window or bright light to the left of the set?


jeff


----------



## Siryak

shoreflor before you take it back mess with the zoom settings a little bit. Sometimes you can get it set to where the image is not filling the side of the screen. So maybe the cable guy messed something up there. So try different settings and maybe even sources and see if you can get it to fill the rest of the screen.


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak* /forum/post/14107602
> 
> 
> shoreflor before you take it back mess with the zoom settings a little bit. Sometimes you can get it set to where the image is not filling the side of the screen. So maybe the cable guy messed something up there. So try different settings and maybe even sources and see if you can get it to fill the rest of the screen.



Yep..this sounds screwy.


Also try playing a DVD or, even better, a break-in disc. The solid color will show of that black bar if its there. Try it at night and if you don't see a problem then at least its not your panel.


Could be a bad signal from you cable box or some other odd setting.


Your cable box should be set to 16:9 with, ideally, gray as a default for letter/pillar box. You mentioned that you asked to cable guy to set it to 4:3, but that seems wrong, so hopefully you meant the opposite.


I would also use the Displays aspect controls exclusively rather than that of your cable or dvr.


Keep us apprised of how things go...


----------



## nodoubt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JCBoomer* /forum/post/13809026
> 
> 
> That's really disappointing to read. I've stated before (maybe on this thread?) that I feel uneven wear from 4:3 material is still the biggest danger in regards to burn-in. I assumed the gray bars would eliminate this risk, but I guess not. I doubt Panny would cover that, but it won't hurt to ask.
> 
> 
> You may search through the Burn-in thread on the CRT Projection TV's. It seems like I read on there at one time about someone making a static image where the static was just on the sides of the 4:3 that they would run over night with the contrast turned up to even the wear out. What you are going to have to do is display an image on the edges where the bars were, and not in the middle. Maybe a calibrator or someone with more technical knowledge than I will chime in.



im in the exact same boat as you brother....just noticed it on my 14 month old 50 inch panny. dang side bars are lighter and show up on light colord back grounds , skys etc....been running the break in dvd for a few days and it seems to be just a tad better....maybe..


----------



## shoreflor

Thank you all for your feedback. here's the latest.


1. It's morning. and black bar is visible on left side only. It's visible even when I use zoom.

2. Turned off tv last night. I know I had heard the tv go "click" and saw no red light. Noticed tv was on this morning. Cable box was off, but tv was on! Could this have caused it even without a signal?

3. Tried running scrolling bar. No change. Do not want to use it too much because it can affect image (even Panasonic tech says that -note it's not in service manual). Read about burn-in dvd - next step to get it or return tv- two days left until 1 month is up.

4. I think it is the panel itself, although cable guy did screw up settings. Note that at night I still get great PQ (saw Gladiator and could see beads of sweat on Maximus' face). Bar not visible.

5. Moved tv to different angle to test for shadows. Bar still there.


By the way, if I see any black bars on sides or top/bottom, it's zoom time.


----------



## RYU583









Daniel Son


works perfect now



THANK YOU!


----------



## FARBES

Hi there!


I want to let you know that I am very profoundly deaf. I can't hear anythings. but My eyes can read everything as A TO Z or One to Zillions.. ha.. anyway, I purchased the VIZIO Plasma HDTV 42in on 6-12-2008. I watch VPHDTV42 for a week. You know that I am very demand the Closed Caption on TV all times.


I admit you that I recently research and resource it on internet. I actually read all posts of page 1 thru 19. This is interesting indeed! that there and this are hardly evidence of documents about severe burn-in permanently.


Wait, wait a minute..ACTUALLY I just find the true evidence what I saw it with my own eyes right now. I just want my plasma tv to clean a ghost/ faint images by Image Cleaner. Anyhow I immediately notify some multi red/ vinyl squares as something wrong on white screen (for image cleaner). I walked close plasma screen to see it, I am like "thats good sufficient of evidence" and in my mind: I knew this is offically SCREEN BURN-IN permanent for lifetime.


look some pictures of below:
















































So Now I know what different between IR and Screen Burn-IN.


Sorry my english is bad, due I am deaf and using the fluent ASL. However You using your own logic and commonsene.


----------



## skyroach

Thanks, daniel'son. I was lost without you. 9G Kuro coming tomorrow, and now i have my break in DVD ready!!!!


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FARBES* /forum/post/14116694
> 
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> 
> I want to let you know that I am very profoundly deaf. I can't hear anythings. but My eyes can read everything as A TO Z or One to Zillions.. ha.. anyway, I purchased the VIZIO Plasma HDTV 42in on 6-12-2008. I watch VPHDTV42 for a week. You know that I am very demand the Closed Caption on TV all times.
> 
> 
> I admit you that I recently research and resource it on internet. I actually read all posts of page 1 thru 19. This is interesting indeed! that there and this are hardly evidence of documents about severe burn-in permanently.
> 
> 
> Wait, wait a minute..ACTUALLY I just find the true evidence what I saw it with my own eyes right now. I just want my plasma tv to clean a ghost/ faint images by Image Cleaner. Anyhow I immediately notify some multi red/ vinyl squares as something wrong on white screen (for image cleaner). I walked close plasma screen to see it, I am like "thats good sufficient of evidence" and in my mind: I knew this is offically SCREEN BURN-IN permanent for lifetime.
> 
> 
> So Now I know what different between IR and Screen Burn-IN.
> 
> 
> Sorry my english is bad, due I am deaf and using the fluent ASL. However You using your own logic and commonsene.



I'm sorry for your troubles. If you purchased your Vizio from a retail store, I certainly would suggest you return it. Even if the images you posted end up being IR and eventually fade, I'm not sure Plasma is the best choice for you. IMO, a reputable dealer would have steered you towards a DLP or LCD solution since you will be using CC all the time. The high contrast between black background and white letters along with the ever present black box will spell nothing but trouble for even the most IR resistent Plasma displays.


----------



## b_scott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyroach* /forum/post/14122113
> 
> 
> Thanks, daniel'son. I was lost without you. 9G Kuro coming tomorrow, and now i have my break in DVD ready!!!!



FYI, you probably don't need it.


----------



## human5892




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Razman* /forum/post/14089428
> 
> 
> Add me to the list. I have a 5010 and i have seen it on a all white screen. I do not notice it in regular viewing.



I have a Panny 42PZ80u, and I notice this as well. Actually, the saga went like this:


I got the TV and noticed the slight "banding", so I assumed something was wrong. I called Panasonic and had them send someone out to take a look. They said they'd switch the panel, which took about a week, but all that resulted in, on top of not fixing the faint cloudiness, was a host of dead and stuck pixel problems (I have a feeling they weren't careful when they placed the new panel in -- either that, or they swapped in a dud). After that, I got Amazon (where I originally purchased from) to just send me a new set. It came today, and I turned it on to find a few very slight spots of banding and uneven picture (only 1 stuck pixel though!).


Since I've experienced this through three panels, I can only conclude that it's a normal occurrence with the technology. In addition, I was told from someone that it very well may fade as the panel ages.


In any case, I can't notice it 98% of the time while watching normal TV/movies/games, so I've decided not to let it bother me. I think we'd all do well to remember that with IR, too -- if you can only notice IR on your set by sticking your nose against the glass, it's not really a problem, is it?










One thing is for certain: none of the available TV technology is ideal for obsessive-compulsive owners. Buy the set that you are most comfortable with, and know that no display technology is without its flaws just yet.


----------



## FARBES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14125094
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for your troubles. If you purchased your Vizio from a retail store, I certainly would suggest you return it. Even if the images you posted end up being IR and eventually fade, I'm not sure Plasma is the best choice for you. IMO, a reputable dealer would have steered you towards a DLP or LCD solution since you will be using CC all the time. The high contrast between black background and white letters along with the ever present black box will spell nothing but trouble for even the most IR resistent Plasma displays.



rwr1776, Yes I am 100% agree with your post. thats what I did took it back and exchange it for LCD HDTV before you posted this, HA!. Now I am happy with LCD FHDTV! but thank you for feedback and suggest.










In case, If you had deaf friends who consider to get plasma TV, tell them don't get plasma and recommend them get DLP or LCD for using CC.


----------



## mkbb

I just bought a Samsung PN58A650. This is my first big screen and I went with plasma after reading various comments here. Several questions, We have been watching several movies this weekend and I noticed that most of them are in letter box format. Question: Since the set will be used mostly for movie viewing do I have to worry about IR and/or burn in? I've noticed that the Samsung has several features to either prevent or cleanup IR. Does anyone know if these really work? I guess I'm just freaking out about paying $3K+ for a TV and ruining it by using it for the purpose I bought it!!


----------



## chwisch87

I have had my TH-42PX80U for about a two weeks now (still on break-in settings). I was watching an HD program that I had recorded on the state television (PBS like but not). They still use non-transparent logos ... like the only HD-channel that does lol. Anyway, the show had no commercials and the logo stayed put. After like 20 mins of programming i paused it to see what i could see with no signal running through the panel. You could see a ever so slight IR outline ... i mean slight to the point that my eyes could have been playing tricks on me. With commercials, it seems to me that logos really shouldn't be an issue. The IR wasn't even noticeable unless you put your face like a couple inches away from the screen too. The total run time was basically an hour on this logo at once spot and it went away within seconds of regular programing back on. Of course to even see it you had to be right up to the screen anyway.


I haven't really gotten back into gaming yet on the set (usually only like 20 to 30 mins burst at a time) and don't have any issues there yet.


On a side note. It used to be a couple years ago that all the plasma manufactures would say you needed a 1000 hour break-in time. Now that is down to 100 with samsung saying you don't really need it all. Do you think that plasma TV's have just gotten better ... i mean with the last few years we are now up to 60000+ hour panels ... or is this a reaction to LCD's continuing to increase their market share over plasmas?


I have no doubt that burn-in is pretty much impossible, but IR still is.


----------



## chwisch87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkbb* /forum/post/14135349
> 
> 
> I just bought a Samsung PN58A650. This is my first big screen and I went with plasma after reading various comments here. Several questions, We have been watching several movies this weekend and I noticed that most of them are in letter box format. Question: Since the set will be used mostly for movie viewing do I have to worry about IR and/or burn in? I've noticed that the Samsung has several features to either prevent or cleanup IR. Does anyone know if these really work? I guess I'm just freaking out about paying $3K+ for a TV and ruining it by using it for the purpose I bought it!!



I have mostly been watching movies that are currently in the 1.85:1 format (or slightly less) almost exclusively until my panel is "hardened". I have read some issues of new panels having letter box issues so better safe than sorry.


Again that could also be coming from guys who have there settings too high for a new panel too soo who knows.


After 1000 hours, your phosphors will be hardened to the point that it shouldn't matter.


----------



## rwr1776

I've cross posted this in response to a brand specific question posited by someone else, but thought it belonged in this thread...so here you go.


I'm honestly curious, would you mind sharing what content you do watch and in what percentage.


I ask because it seems s that 80% of movies come "hardcoded" with black bars... thin ones for 1.85:1 moves and thick ones for 2.35:1 movies.


Now, according to my manufacturer, the display I purchased is extremely resistant to IR and uneven wear, however, the fine print in this (and every other) warranty also states that should the "impossible" occur and I end up with burn-in and/or uneven wear it's not covered.


Given that, I've been pretty gentle for the first three weeks with lower contrast settings and extremely low use of 2:35 films.


The cost for my prudence has not been trivial. My wife complains bitterly about my using the Zoom aspect during 2:35 films and makes statements like, "Why did we get this expensive Plasma if we are not going to see movies the "right" way." I tend to agree.


She understands we are in a break-in period, but if its the considered wisdom of folks who have used this technology, that watching letterboxed movies will trash my Display, then I'm in big trouble 


Left w/o constraints here's how I'd guess my family would use our Display.
30% SD 4:3 Content stretched to 16:9 (no one seems to mind this)
15% HD 16:9 Content (Hey, there just isn't that much available yet...whatcha gonna do)
45% 2.35:1 Movies (The vast majority of films seem to be in this aspect)
10% 1.85:1 Movies (Even these have a small bit of black bar, right?)


Thoughts....


----------



## cvictori

Got 4:3 burn-in due to a combination of my own lack of preparation, and mis-information







.


After trying PixelProtector for a bit, it helped a little, but its still pretty obvious on white backgrounds or pure black (feels meaningless to have a plasma if you can see defects on black backgrounds).


So, I'm thinking of selling it at a significant loss, vs donating it to my local charity for tax-deduction. Its covered under Sears warranty, but I'm just about sure they won't replace a plasma just because it has burn-in. Any thoughts?


----------



## booker21

How long does it takes for a IR to fade away?

I have some IR from MGS4 Hud. I only see it on black screen, totally dark and puting my nose on the display.

I tried break in dvd for around 40 min and is still there.


So my question is, how long i should wait until i can say my plasma has BI and not IR?


----------



## flip034




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cvictori* /forum/post/14139346
> 
> 
> Got 4:3 burn-in due to a combination of my own lack of preparation, and mis-information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> After trying PixelProtector for a bit, it helped a little, but its still pretty obvious on white backgrounds or pure black (feels meaningless to have a plasma if you can see defects on black backgrounds).
> 
> 
> So, I'm thinking of selling it at a significant loss, vs donating it to my local charity for tax-deduction. Its covered under Sears warranty, but I'm just about sure they won't replace a plasma just because it has burn-in. Any thoughts?



having the same issue as you due to 4:3 viewing, its only noticeable on very light screen such as a hockey game ect. blacks arent bad at all, i have been using pixel protector dvd also. very slight difference from it. how long have you been using it and which settings are you using on the dvd? i have been zooming all sd and even hd formats that have black bars. will phosfor wear even out eventually on its own as long as there is full screen viewing content?? anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## Dave A.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14142638
> 
> 
> How long does it takes for a IR to fade away?
> 
> I have some IR from MGS4 Hud. I only see it on black screen, totally dark and puting my nose on the display.
> 
> I tried break in dvd for around 40 min and is still there.
> 
> 
> So my question is, how long i should wait until i can say my plasma has BI and not IR?



It depends on many things: the hours you have on the TV, what brand it is and your settings. I have a Pioneer 4270 with maybe 2500 hours on it and I still get IR every time I game for a couple of hours. I put three hours on MGS4 just the other night and the IR from the Huds faded away after about 10 minutes. I could only slightly see it on a blank input with my face right up to the glass though, so I'm really not as concerned about it as I used to be. MGS4 should be one of the best games for not producing IR though. You game for 60 minutes and then watch a 15 minute cut scene. Watch something bright for a while and check it again.


----------



## SneakyPete

Hello folks. Just downloaded/ripped the break-in DVD, in anticipation of purchasing/installing the PRO-151FD. Many thanks to those who created & made it available to everyone.

My question is, should I use my PS3 or a regular DVD player to run this disk for the continuous 8-9 day period? I'm a little concerned about excessive wear (due to heat build-up) if I use my 40G PS3 and run it for 8-9 straight days. My PS3 sits in a very open area, so it's well ventilated. I really don't care about my regular DVD player, since I do not use it anymore.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.


----------



## rwr1776

Personally, I question the wisdom of running either of them for that length of time. There has been more than one occasion where the playback device failed resulting in irreparable problems.


Just two examples of several: first had someone's DVD player freeze on a single color frame, thus creating significant unequal phosphor wear for that particular color. Second had the playback device freezing with a high contrast error message displayed resulting, ironically, in the very situation the owner sought to prevent with the break-in disc.


Others may disagree, but if you plan to leave you Display on unattended, I'd suggest something like HDNet or Discover HD, both of which are well regarded for their display friendly bugs and content.


----------



## cvictori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14143411
> 
> 
> having the same issue as you due to 4:3 viewing, its only noticeable on very light screen such as a hockey game ect. blacks arent bad at all, i have been using pixel protector dvd also. very slight difference from it. how long have you been using it and which settings are you using on the dvd? i have been zooming all sd and even hd formats that have black bars. will phosfor wear even out eventually on its own as long as there is full screen viewing content?? anyone have any thoughts?



So, I ran the 'snow' screen about 5 or 6 times so far and left it on overnight. That helped a little. Then I tried the color wash for about 3 tries also overnight with a little relief. I used to believe that eventually the phosphors would even out eventually, but its still pretty noticeable. Even tried the white wash a couple of times. I've basically done all of the washes but have shot my brightness and picture up to >90% each. Also tried the route of using DiscoverHD channel and leaving it on all night a few times. That didn't do too much. Good luck with your TV though!


----------



## SneakyPete

Thanks, guys. I realize there is some inherent risk in running the break-in disk, especially if you experience some malfunction during unattended playback (which I just realize is only about 6 days instead of 8 days). I'm willing to take the risk that my equipment won't fail on me. However, I'll be buying the PRO-151 from BB/Magnolia. Therefore, in the unlikely event that something does go wrong, I will probably just return the set. One of the benefits of buying locally from a B&M with a 30-day satisfaction return policy.


Hope someone who has come across this same minor dilemma (using the PS3 vs a regular DVD player) will chime in.


----------



## rwr1776

Use the DVD player...less stuff to break.


----------



## kuru

for the people who have experience with Samsung's TVs, is the break in period really necessary?


I'm buying a 42" plasma today with a PS3 and I want to play games on this thing. I don't wanna watch movies and break-in DVDs for a whole week till I can start gaming on it.


thanks in advance


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14156332
> 
> 
> for the people who have experience with Samsung's TVs, is the break in period really necessary?
> 
> 
> I'm buying a 42" plasma today with a PS3 and I want to play games on this thing. I don't wanna watch movies and break-in DVDs for a whole week till I can start gaming on it.
> 
> 
> thanks in advance



I don't think it is going to hurt it to game in moderation during the break-in period. I don't know if I would start those 3-5 hour gaming sessions just yet. Just make sure you vary the games and throw in some movies etc. Also take it off of scorch mode. I would suggest keeping the Contrast no higher than 50 while gaming during break-in.


----------



## MountainSailor

New 5010 owner here. I've been running the break in DVD for about 1 hour now. Silly question, but I thought I'd ask to make sure.


I have my old tv and components still set up to keep the family happy during the mulitple day break in period.


I have the 5010 set up with an old DVD player. The DVD player is connected to the 5010 via an RCA single video connector. Is this ok, or do I need to use my component cables? Everything appears to be fine.


Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## hdshn

Well, I'm a newbie here. I just bought my Panny TH-42PZ80U.


I have used it for a 30-40 hrs and watching some Euro2008 soccer games, also some ESPN just for a few hours 2-3 top, then I turn to other channels. I read that the channels logos can damage the TV.


Today I download the break-in DVD (and I copied to my memory SD Card) and I'm planning on leaving it playing all night and day (since I pass all day out my house).


I don't know if I can play with my Wii (My games: Mario Cart & Sports Games). I'm afraid to burn-in my TV If I play with my Wii.


A few questions:


It's the different breaking-in the TV with the SD Card or DVD? Any side effects?


How long can I leave the TV with SD Card running with the Break-In images?


The I don't know how to calibrate my TV, any tips like software, settings, etc...?


thanks and I will keep updating this.


----------



## chwisch87

After about 50 hours i have played my Wii with friends, Brawl and mario kart and such with no problem.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak* /forum/post/14157257
> 
> 
> I don't think it is going to hurt it to game in moderation during the break-in period. I don't know if I would start those 3-5 hour gaming sessions just yet. Just make sure you vary the games and throw in some movies etc. Also take it off of scorch mode. I would suggest keeping the Contrast no higher than 50 while gaming during break-in.



I've gamed on my 58" PN58A550 Plasma from Samsung since day one. I've got about 350 hours on it now and I've had it for like 4 weeks. About 200 hours of that is the breakin DVD since I ran it pretty much non-stop for the first week when not using TV for watching/gaming.


I generally find the TV is more prone to IR when first turned on, I'm not sure if this is typical for all plasmas or not.


The only time I've noticed IR from gaming was when playing Bourne Conspiracy and it was only once. I was fighting one of the bosses on Assassin difficultly and the life meter was on the lower right corner after about playing the game for 45 mins I turned the game off and noticed a slight image in the corner but had to look hard to see it, my girl friend could only see it after I showed it too her. 10 Mins of watching TV and it was totally gone.


This past weekend I played Lego Indiana Jones several times, usually lasting 1.5-3 hours, but ones I played for almost 5 hours straight. After that I didn't notice any IR at all, but that games mixes things up with the map load screens and cutscenes, but if you play a level for 20-30 mins the normal life/lego pieces bars are on screen all the time.


Last night my girlfriend turned the TV on and was watching a 4:3 program with lite bars on the side for maybe 5-10 mins, I then turned my HD-DVD played on to watch a DVD movie and the bootup time takes a little while and the HD-DVD logo was in the bottom right corner for maybe 20 seconds. During the opening scene of the movie it was mostly black and you could clearly see where the HD-DVD logo was and where the bars were on the sides of the screen. After about 5 mins of the movie I couldn't see the HD-DVD logo at all in anothe dark scene and the side bars faded greatly but were still a little noticeable, 5-10 mins later they were completely gone.


IR is still an issue and it is the only negative I have with my Plasma, I've been very happy with everything else so far. Even SD stuff looks great. I think I will continue to use the break in dvd more since I've heard IR happens even less after 1000 hours, and I haven't really used the breakin DVD at all in the last 10 days or so.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdshn* /forum/post/14162668
> 
> 
> Well, I'm a newbie here. I just bought my Panny TH-42PZ80U.
> 
> 
> I have used it for a 30-40 hrs and watching some Euro2008 soccer games, also some ESPN just for a few hours 2-3 top, then I turn to other channels. I read that the channels logos can damage the TV.
> 
> 
> Today I download the break-in DVD (and I copied to my memory SD Card) and I'm planning on leaving it playing all night and day (since I pass all day out my house).
> 
> 
> I don't know if I can play with my Wii (My games: Mario Cart & Sports Games). I'm afraid to burn-in my TV If I play with my Wii.
> 
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> 
> It's the different breaking-in the TV with the SD Card or DVD? Any side effects?
> 
> 
> How long can I leave the TV with SD Card running with the Break-In images?
> 
> 
> The I don't know how to calibrate my TV, any tips like software, settings, etc...?
> 
> 
> thanks and I will keep updating this.




I HATE the channel logos, some of them aren't so bad, some of them are terrible and some of them are awesome.


Some channels have light/transparent logos they fit in the "aren't so bad" category. Channels like HDNET, PBS HD, CBC HD, discovery HD, etc would fit into this category.


Some channels fit into the "terrible" category because they have BRIGHT colors, aren't transparent or faded, are are quite large. Some channels even have all of those. Some terrible channels are National Geographic HD (bight yellow?!?), Fox HD (bright solid white, sometimes has red too), CTV (Green, Red, and Blue bright logo), Showcase HD, also any news/morning shows usually have terrible logos. Canada A.M., Today, Early Show, and Good Morning America all suck. I mean their logos usually intergrate the station logo and their own info and sometimes take enough space that I couldn't hide it if I laid a DVD case directly over it. Not to mention all the channels with tickers. These can be terrible.


As for the AWESOME category, their aren't many. Some stations have no logos at all or only show the logos for short periods of time. I was however watching something on ABC the other night and the station was ABC 7 (local for Michigan area and its logo was a big brightly colors 7 in a circle, it was blue and silver and white mostly. But I though it was awesome because it was almost always spinning, it was the first time I've seen this. It was spin around 2-3 times then stop spinning for 1-2 seconds and spin 2-3 times again, rise and repeat. I was thinking "why don't all stations do something like that?" For a constant logo it was by far the best I've seen so far.


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N1GHTRA1N* /forum/post/14163457
> 
> 
> The only time I've noticed IR from gaming was when playing Bourne Conspiracy and it was only once.



The only time I have gotten it was while playing Deadliest Catch. That game is the worst about displaying a HUD that stays for a long time. Halo 3, COD 4, and UT3 I haven't had any problems with. I didn't notice any with NBA 2K7 either, but I didn't play that very long.


----------



## kuru

k thx for the help Siryak.


but I have another issue:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wtfer* /forum/post/7552574
> 
> 
> btw did you notice any dot crawl on the panel?
> 
> Plamsa panels suppoably lack the full color scale to reproduce smooth colors like a CRT can
> 
> 
> This is what a CRT without dot crawl would look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a Plasma with (extreme case of) dot crawl would look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you notice that on the 360 or any of your DVDs?



I just bought a 42" plasma today and I I noticed that there's alot of dot crawling in the set.


I don't know if this's just because it's new TV. I got till saturday if I want to replace it. so help will really appreciated.


----------



## Siryak

if it is normal or not I'm not sure...but I get that on my set too.


----------



## dauger

My PN50A550 has dot crawl to a degree too. Unfortunately, I don't think you can really expect a plasma or LCD to beat the picture quality of a CRT.


----------



## kuru

I found out that some of the dot crawling was caused by the hdmi cable I'm using, 'cause when I switched to composite some of the crawling went away.


and I'm also experiencing some ghosting or trailing from moving objects on the screen. for example when playing GT5 on my PS3 all the cars that moves left or right appears really blurry. cars kinda' leaves a trail of images when it moves from one spot on the screen to another. this also happens on the ps3 main menu.


I'm going to try a different cable tonight and I'll keep you updated


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14164459
> 
> 
> k thx for the help Siryak.
> 
> 
> but I have another issue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought a 42" plasma today and I I noticed that there's alot of dot crawling in the set.
> 
> 
> I don't know if this's just because it's new TV. I got till saturday if I want to replace it. so help will really appreciated.



yeap it´s normal, this is the reasons why i´m thinking of going back to LCD instead.


----------



## N1GHTRA1N




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14165310
> 
> 
> I found out that some of the dot crawling was caused by the hdmi cable I'm using, 'cause when I switched to composite some of the crawling went away.
> 
> 
> and I'm also experiencing some ghosting or trailing from moving objects on the screen. for example when playing GT5 on my PS3 all the cars that moves left or right appears really blurry. cars kinda' leaves a trail of images when it moves from one spot on the screen to another. this also happens on the ps3 main menu.
> 
> 
> I'm going to try a different cable tonight and I'll keep you updated



I saw this with a cable too on a LG 1080P plasma, the cable was rated for 1.2 HDMI which is usually okay. Replacing it with a 1.3 HDMI cable solved the issue, it was also with a PS3 and was like the cable didn't have enough bandwidth for 1080p. It was a monoprice cable and I'm using the exact same type of cable on my PN58A550 without issue, so maybe the quality of the cables varies a little or some sets handle lower quality cables different.


----------



## kuru

the problem turned out to be from the TV. because when I plugged the same HDMI cable to the second HDMI port in my TV everything was perfect. there was still dot crawling but it didn't bother me when I sat far from the screen. but more importantly, the ghosting-trailing thing went away. I tried the plugging in the cable in the first hdmi port and the trailing came back. so I guess the problem is from the TV not the cable.


one more thing though. while I was running in the burn-in DVD I was drinking water neer the set and I coughed and some of the water the went on the screen  (stupid I know) I immediately turned off the TV and whipped the screen. when I turned on the TV everything was ok.


so I'm just wondering if the water splatters will damage the screen permanently, or if its okey?


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14165944
> 
> 
> while I was running in the burn-in DVD I was drinking water neer the set and I coughed and some of the water the went on the screen



Viewing the burn-in DVD is known to have this effect on people. It's not safe for human viewing.


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dauger* /forum/post/14165986
> 
> 
> Viewing the burn-in DVD is known to have this effect on people. It's not safe for human viewing.



and there wasn't even a warning massage about it when I downloaded it 


seriously though, did I just damage the TV or anything?


----------



## dauger

Water on the screen should be fine as long as no liquid actually got into the inside. If some did get it something bad probably would have happened immediately.


----------



## kuru

oh, ok thanks alot =]

hopefully when I get used to the set I'll start helping ppl out =]


----------



## flip034

i have uneven phosfor wear from 4:3 viewing that is noticeable on a very light background. darks are not so bad. my question is this. I have been careful from now on not to view at all with any black or grey bars ect. and have tried various methods like the burn in dvd, pixel protector, and even an inverse pattern 4:3 image. as long as my viewing is constantly full screen now, will my phosfors eventually even out and the light dark contrast go away??


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14170833
> 
> 
> i have uneven phosfor wear from 4:3 viewing that is noticeable on a very light background. darks are not so bad. my question is this. I have been careful from now on not to view at all with any black or grey bars ect. and have tried various methods like the burn in dvd, pixel protector, and even an inverse pattern 4:3 image. as long as my viewing is constantly full screen now, will my phosfors eventually even out and the light dark contrast go away??



Sorry, I don't believe it is possible to even out that kind of wear. Think about it. The sides are uneven now. You watch full screen. The sides have an image on it now, but so does the rest of the screen. There is no way for the sides to "catch up" to the rest of the screen as the entire screen is displaying an image. The only way would be if you displayed only an image on the sides and not the rest of the screen.


This kind of wear, in my opinion, is not IR or burn in but uneven phosphor wear that the cells in the center of the screen are aging faster then the sides so it will always have this.


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14170833
> 
> 
> i have uneven phosfor wear from 4:3 viewing that is noticeable on a very light background. darks are not so bad. my question is this. I have been careful from now on not to view at all with any black or grey bars ect. and have tried various methods like the burn in dvd, pixel protector, and even an inverse pattern 4:3 image. as long as my viewing is constantly full screen now, will my phosfors eventually even out and the light dark contrast go away??



This is surprising...how many hours of 4:3 viewing did you have and can you provide more detail or (better) a picture of your screen, perhaps paused with a full screen solid color that best displays the issue.


Also, what brand is your Display. Some Displays, e.g., LG PG60 series has a inverse image option, so you could turn on that feature and play 4:3 content, thus causing the black pillars to become white. It's a pretty nifty feature and especially useful for folks that watch content with static crawlers as the negative image washes away the IR in a very short period of time. I would imagine other MFRs would have something similar...check out what countermeasures your has before you lose heart.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14170833
> 
> 
> i have uneven phosfor wear from 4:3 viewing...



Not knowing how many hours you've put on and what your viewing habits have been it's impossible to say.


Completely reversing it is probably a stretch, but it may become less and less apparent over time. For instance, if the TV has 1000 hours on it now, and 500 of them were watching 4:3 content, then the sides of the screen have only been on 50% of the time that the rest have. If you watch full screen stuff exclusively from this point on, that % will decrease. ie, at 5,000 total hours, the side bars will have been used for 4,500 hours to the center's 5,000 hours - only a 10% difference. That decrease in "unevenness" would cause the side bars to be less noticeable, I think.


jeff


----------



## flip034




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14171060
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't believe it is possible to even out that kind of wear. Think about it. The sides are uneven now. You watch full screen. The sides have an image on it now, but so does the rest of the screen. There is no way for the sides to "catch up" to the rest of the screen as the entire screen is displaying an image. The only way would be if you displayed only an image on the sides and not the rest of the screen.
> 
> 
> This kind of wear, in my opinion, is not IR or burn in but uneven phosphor wear that the cells in the center of the screen are aging faster then the sides so it will always have this.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14171280
> 
> 
> This is surprising...how many hours of 4:3 viewing did you have and can you provide more detail or (better) a picture of your screen, perhaps paused with a full screen solid color that best displays the issue.
> 
> 
> Also, what brand is your Display. Some Displays, e.g., LG PG60 series has a inverse image option, so you could turn on that feature and play 4:3 content, thus causing the black pillars to become white. It's a pretty nifty feature and especially useful for folks that watch content with static crawlers as the negative image washes away the IR in a very short period of time. I would imagine other MFRs would have something similar...check out what countermeasures your has before you lose heart.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/14171405
> 
> 
> Not knowing how many hours you've put on and what your viewing habits have been it's impossible to say.
> 
> 
> Completely reversing it is probably a stretch, but it may become less and less apparent over time. For instance, if the TV has 1000 hours on it now, and 500 of them were watching 4:3 content, then the sides of the screen have only been on 50% of the time that the rest have. If you watch full screen stuff exclusively from this point on, that % will decrease. ie, at 5,000 total hours, the side bars will have been used for 4,500 hours to the center's 5,000 hours - only a 10% difference. That decrease in "unevenness" would cause the side bars to be less noticeable, I think.
> 
> 
> jeff



thanks for all your replies. my plasma is a vizio vmp60 about one year old and it was probably used for 4:3 viewing less than half the time (watched more hd content even though a lot of the time there was hd materials in 4:3 format) i have posted a few pics also


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14172419
> 
> 
> thanks for all your replies. my plasma is a vizio vmp60 about one year old and it was probably used for 4:3 viewing less than half the time (watched more hd content even though a lot of the time there was hd materials in 4:3 format) i have posted a few pics also



I assume those pics were of a light gray solid image similar to what you find on the break-in disc...correct?


First off, the shading doesn't seem that bad and probably isn't even noticable during normal use. That said, I'm just OCD enough for it to drive me nuts just knowing its there, so completely understand.


Assuming average use, you probably have 2000-3000 hours on your display and if 40-50% of that was 4:3, I'm surprised the wear isn't more uneven.


Have you checked to see if your Vizio has a image reversal feature I mentioned? Even with such a feature, it will take some time to start and even things out. Without it you are facing the situation described by greenjp in that you'd probably need a good 1,000+ hours to significantly even out the wear.


A final possibility might be to take the static images from the break-in DVD and replace the center 4:3 section of each image with solid black. In essence you would be creating a pillar only break-in disc and would then be evenly wearing only the right and left portions of the screen. Running that continuously, you may be able to even things out rather quickly.


----------



## flip034




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14172922
> 
> 
> I assume those pics were of a light gray solid image similar to what you find on the break-in disc...correct?
> 
> 
> First off, the shading doesn't seem that bad and probably isn't even noticable during normal use. That said, I'm just OCD enough for it to drive me nuts just knowing its there, so completely understand.
> 
> 
> Assuming average use, you probably have 2000-3000 hours on your display and if 40-50% of that was 4:3, I'm surprised the wear isn't more uneven.
> 
> 
> Have you checked to see if your Vizio has a image reversal feature I mentioned? Even with such a feature, it will take some time to start and even things out. Without it you are facing the situation described by greenjp in that you'd probably need a good 1,000+ hours to significantly even out the wear.
> 
> 
> A final possibility might be to take the static images from the break-in DVD and replace the center 4:3 section of each image with solid black. In essence you would be creating a pillar only break-in disc and would then be evenly wearing only the right and left portions of the screen. Running that continuously, you may be able to even things out rather quickly.



the image from the picture is the image cleaner function on the tv itself. i have an inverse 4:3 pattern that i burned to a dvd and have it on a continuos loop. i have ran it for a couple nights straight through a few weeks ago and it didnt seem to make a difference. perhaps it will take longer than i expected


----------



## flip034

would anyone be able to tell me how ( and if at all possible) to configure the burn in disc so that only the pillars on a 4:3 screen will change color?


----------



## chadmak09

Could someone add the jpg's for Evangelo's Break-in loop files to a post in this thread??

I am unable to unzipp files on my PS3.


Thanks!


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14175305
> 
> 
> would anyone be able to tell me how ( and if at all possible) to configure the burn in disc so that only the pillars on a 4:3 screen will change color?



Not possible.


----------



## fxdm70

Can anyone please tell me where exactly I should have my settings when I use the break in DVD for a Panny 800U ?? I heard 2 different settings, and I am a bit confused...


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14175305
> 
> 
> would anyone be able to tell me how ( and if at all possible) to configure the burn in disc so that only the pillars on a 4:3 screen will change color?



Your best bet would be to ask the maker of the original to make such a version.


----------



## OgOgilby

We received our first plasma (Panasonic 42PZ800U) a couple days ago and I am finding that I am getting paranoid about BI and IR after reading the horror stories about these issues. It seems like I can't get away from channels that have stationary banners, side/top bars, or solid logos. I am constantly changing the format to hide the side bars, and avoiding watching letterboxed movies or shows with stupid logos when we should be enjoying the new TV. I was planning on getting a PS3 to play movies and games, but now I'm wondering if playing games on a plasma set is asking for trouble.


I am running the break in DVD as much as I can, but I've read conflicting posts on whether you should keep the picture level on high, low, or medium setting while using the DVD. Heck some people recommend not using the break in DVD at all. Some people even insist BI and IR don't exist, which is odd since it is posted on Panasonic's site that BI and IR can be a problem.


At what point is it safe to watch letterbox movies, 4:3 with sidebars, and play games with fixed HUDs without IR worries, or is IR something to worry about as long as you have a plasma set? Is IR a problem when watching football games since the networks love to keep scoreboards on the screen?


Any help or advice will be appreciated. I have to decide if we should keep this plasma or replace it with an LCD.


----------



## FARBES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OgOgilby* /forum/post/14184559
> 
> 
> We received our first plasma (Panasonic 42PZ800U) a) *a couple days ago and I am finding that I am getting paranoid about BI and IR after reading the horror stories about these issues*. It seems like I can't get away from channels that have stationary banners, side/top bars, or solid logos. I am constantly changing the format to hide the side bars, and avoiding watching letterboxed movies or shows with stupid logos when we should be enjoying the new TV. b) *I was planning on getting a PS3 to play movies and games, but now I'm wondering if playing games on a plasma set is asking for trouble.*
> 
> 
> c) *I am running the break in DVD as much as I can, but I've read conflicting posts on whether you should keep the picture level on high, low, or medium setting while using the DVD. Heck some people recommend not using the break in DVD at all. Some people even insist BI and IR don't exist, which is odd since it is posted on Panasonic's site that BI and IR can be a problem.*
> 
> 
> d) *At what point is it safe to watch letterbox movies, 4:3 with sidebars, and play games with fixed HUDs without IR worries, or is IR something to worry about as long as you have a plasma set? Is IR a problem when watching football games since the networks love to keep scoreboards on the screen?*
> 
> 
> Any help or advice will be appreciated. e) *I have to decide if we should keep this plasma or replace it with an LCD*.



OgOgilby, LOL your post really find me so laughable!


a)Dude, calm down.. You don't have worry nor paranoid too much about IR. But you should have some concerning about burn-in, because it is total different from IR. a single pixel of burn in is evident destory anywhere inside screen.


b) You can play PS3 on your sweet plasma for long hours. make sure that you pause it and running image cleaner while you go pee or something.


c) Yes few weeks ago, I had read 1 thru 19 pages. Here's most people are so complaints about IR issues, but nothing serious. But can't prevent the serious burn-in as example: here click and photo 


d) Honestly, I know nothing 4:3 with sidebars at all. anyway, Repeat statment, You shouldn't have to worry about IR at all. IR will be not bother you at all. You are suppose to be pleasure to watch movies or play games on the beautiful plasma what you purchased.










e) I am curiously asking you, where you bought your plasma at? If you don't mind what I ask.


----------



## flip034




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dauger* /forum/post/14184120
> 
> 
> Your best bet would be to ask the maker of the original to make such a version.



i have e-mailed him with no response as of yet. i know i am not alone with this type of retention issue. i'm sure this would be a great fix it tool if it can be made


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14185148
> 
> 
> i have e-mailed him with no response as of yet. i know i am not alone with this type of retention issue. i'm sure this would be a great fix it tool if it can be made



I agree, I think it would be quite popular if it existed. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't.


----------



## fxdm70

Well. I have the 80U as well. About 5 days. I run the break in DVD a few hours yesterday and 5 horus today. I've also watched blu-rays, and HD channels. I made sure I was in ZOOM if needed to cover the whole screen... I also used Cnet's recomended color settings as well.


I, too was worried about this issue. I am no longer worried. My picture is absolutely perfect with no signs of IR at all... I will still continue to break in for the 100 - 200 hours and I will be alot more cautious.... But I lost the paranoia... no sense in it.


So burn it in a little. Watch TV a little. Enjoy your TV!! Just use common sense!!!


Thanks everyone for all the valuable input.


I really would like to know though -- how do I find out how many hours are on my Panny PZ800U....


----------



## hdshn

Well I was freaking out also and I download the break-in images to a SD Card and I have left my TV (42PZ80U) and I have left playing the SD Card while I'm at work, 8 hours for this past week... guess I have 100 hours so far...


Let me tell you this, I watch a lot of ESPN this week (Euro2008) and everything is fine with the TV.


Just enjoy your TV...


----------



## booker21

i have a quick question, maybe someone can answer.

Why some IR is visible only on black screen, and some is visible on white?


so far the only IR i got was only visible on a black screen, even then i had to turn off all the room lights to be able to see it.


so this get me thinking, when you get IR on a white screen?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14185148
> 
> 
> i have e-mailed him with no response as of yet. i know i am not alone with this type of retention issue. i'm sure this would be a great fix it tool if it can be made





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dauger* /forum/post/14185848
> 
> 
> I agree, I think it would be quite popular if it existed. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't.




There is a good reason why there is not. Not every TV, or TV program material puts the black bars in the exact same place on every TV made. So it would be impossible to make one up that could cover any and all possible TV's and TV screen settings and that would be universal to every TV, and that could cover every possible place where the bars were placed by the TV itself or from playing a DVD, TV show or anything else that inserts it's own black bars into the programming.


----------



## OgOgilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdshn* /forum/post/14187357
> 
> Well I was freaking out also and I download the break-in images to a SD Card and I have left my TV (42PZ80U) and I have left playing the SD Card while I'm at work, 8 hours for this past week... guess I have 100 hours so far...
> 
> 
> Let me tell you this, I watch a lot of ESPN this week (Euro2008) and everything is fine with the TV.
> 
> 
> Just enjoy your TV...



Thanks, that's good to hear!


----------



## OgOgilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fxdm70* /forum/post/14186477
> 
> 
> 
> I really would like to know though -- how do I find out how many hours are on my Panny PZ800U....



I would love to be able find out how many hours are on my PZ800U also. I read that you can find out how many hours are on your set in the service menu. The trick is how to access the service menu - and that I don't know.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OgOgilby* /forum/post/14188644
> 
> 
> I would love to be able find out how many hours are on my PZ800U also. I read that you can find out how many hours are on your set in the service menu. The trick is how to access the service menu - and that I don't know.



.. not specific to ur unit, but could possibly work:

http://www.bruzziforum.com/vbf/forumdisplay.php?f=5


----------



## OgOgilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FARBES* /forum/post/14184891
> 
> 
> OgOgilby, LOL your post really find me so laughable!
> 
> 
> a)Dude, calm down.. You don't have worry nor paranoid too much about IR. But you should have some concerning about burn-in, because it is total different from IR. a single pixel of burn in is evident destory anywhere inside screen.
> 
> 
> b) You can play PS3 on your sweet plasma for long hours. make sure that you pause it and running image cleaner while you go pee or something.
> 
> 
> c) Yes few weeks ago, I had read 1 thru 19 pages. Here's most people are so complaints about IR issues, but nothing serious. But can't prevent the serious burn-in as example: here click and photo
> 
> 
> d) Honestly, I know nothing 4:3 with sidebars at all. anyway, Repeat statment, You shouldn't have to worry about IR at all. IR will be not bother you at all. You are suppose to be pleasure to watch movies or play games on the beautiful plasma what you purchased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e) I am curiously asking you, where you bought your plasma at? If you don't mind what I ask.



I'm not as paranoid as I stated in my post - it was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek about the BI and IR issue, with some truth mixed in. If the issue was as bad as some people say it is, I don't think many people would be buying plasmas.


I understand that there is a break in period with plasma sets. My problem is that there are conflicting posts as to how long it takes to really "harden" the screen to IR and BI. Some say 100-200 hours, which would be approximately 1-2 months at 3-5 hours a day of being careful (or much less using the break in DVD), so not a huge deal. Then again, I have read posts where people state that they have 1000-2000 hours on their plasma's and got BI or IR.


I would just like to know how many break in hours it really takes to get to the point where you can watch anything (or play video games) and not have to "zoom in" or be careful when you are watching ESPN or CNN with scoreboards and scroll bars. I don't plan on pausing the picture with a solid logo on it for 8 hours.


I purchased the plasma from Amazon.com


----------



## OgOgilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/14188788
> 
> 
> .. not specific to ur unit, but could possibly work:
> 
> http://www.bruzziforum.com/vbf/forumdisplay.php?f=5



Thanks - good find!


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OgOgilby* /forum/post/14188810
> 
> 
> .. I understand that there is a break in period with plasma sets. My problem is that there are conflicting posts as to how long it takes to really "harden" the screen to IR and BI. Some say 100-200 hours, which would be approximately 1-2 months at 3-5 hours a day of being careful (or much less using the break in DVD), so not a huge deal. Then again, I have read posts where people state that they have 1000-2000 hours on their plasma's and got BI or IR.
> 
> 
> I would just like to know how many break in hours it really takes to get to the point where you can watch anything (or play video games) and not have to "zoom in" or be careful when you are watching ESPN or CNN with scoreboards and scroll bars. I don't plan on pausing the picture with a solid logo on it for 8 hours. ..



.. i have a/r 500 hrs on my Pioneer w/ no visible IR; frankly, i seem to have blanked it out as I enjoy my set. My sister/husband have a Samsung (50A550) w/ a/r 150 hrs; we were watching ESPN w/ the scoreboards (a/r 30mins) yesterday & afterwards some James Taylor DVD; no visible IR. **add: w/ few exceptions, most broadcast programs have commercials (or) alter the scoreboard during programming. and u just mentioned not pausing a scene for upteen hours; some players/STB have screen savers but haven't had to utilize it yet.


many experienced board members (D-Nice for one) report roughly 400hrs b/f one should consider a pro calibration; one would assume that at that # the set would have achieved a 'almost' absolute state of phosphur hardidiness (scientifically of course)







i don't know if anyone could state w/ absolute certainty (100%) that a plasma will have no IR after it reaches *** hours. but as you rack-up the hours, the plasma equalizes (scientifically of course) it's cosmic enzimes & the likelyhood of IR (much less B-I) should be less prevelant.


----------



## OgOgilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/14189059
> 
> 
> .. i have a/r 500 hrs on my Pioneer w/ no visible IR; frankly, i seem to have blanked it out as I enjoy my set. My sister/husband have a Samsung (50A550) w/ a/r 150 hrs; we were watching ESPN w/ the scoreboards (a/r 30mins) yesterday & afterwards some James Taylor DVD; no visible IR. **add: w/ few exceptions, most broadcast programs have commercials (or) alter the scoreboard during programming. and u just mentioned not pausing a scene for upteen hours; some players/STB have screen savers but haven't had to utilize it yet.
> 
> 
> many experienced board members (D-Nice for one) report roughly 400hrs b/f one should consider a pro calibration; one would assume that at that # the set would have achieved a 'almost' absolute state of phosphur hardidiness (scientifically of course)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't know if anyone could state w/ absolute certainty (100%) that a plasma will have no IR after it reaches *** hours. but as you rack-up the hours, the plasma equalizes (scientifically of course) it's cosmic enzimes & the likelyhood of IR (much less B-I) should be less prevelant.



Thanks daniel'son. That is what I was hoping to hear - plus I'm a big fan of hardening one's cosmic enzymes


----------



## hdshn

Well 122 hours and going... still no IR on the TV.... WOoo Hoo.....


I'm using burn-in DVD on my SD Card and everything is smooth....


Panny... TH-42PZ80U....


----------



## booker21

i´m going to try this thead, it seems there are may experience members on this thread regarding IR/BI issue.


quick questions.. i never ever experience IR on white screen. But i do see some "IR" on black screen.


what this means?


IR is only IR when you see it on a White image? or on Black screen it´s also called IR?


When you get IR on White, and when do you get on Black?


I do get IR on black screen a lot! but never experience IR on white.


Sorry for so many questions but i´m new to plasma tech.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14195483
> 
> 
> i´m going to try this thead, it seems there are may experience members on this thread regarding IR/BI issue.
> 
> 
> quick questions.. i never ever experience IR on white screen. But i do see some "IR" on black screen.
> 
> 
> what this means?
> 
> 
> IR is only IR when you see it on a White image? or on Black screen it´s also called IR?
> 
> 
> When you get IR on White, and when do you get on Black?
> 
> 
> I do get IR on black screen a lot! but never experience IR on white.
> 
> 
> Sorry for so many questions but i´m new to plasma tech.



They are the same IR, no difference. On black screens you are seeing the leftover residual charge of the cells still illuminating. You would probably see it on both if you looked. If you are seeing it on a white screen it might be the white that is being displayed has either already been wiped clean by the white screen or the white is brighter then the IR so you can only see the white.


----------



## booker21

ok, so no difference between the two. It doesn´t mean white IR are extreme IR than blacks as a thought.


----------



## theman510

quick question. first off i really appreciate everyone's help on here. i'll be getting my th-50pz800u in about a week and i am very very excited. i'm worried about IR so i downloaded the burn-in pictures and put them on my ps3 via sd card. i'm using my current tv for this just to test it to see what it was like. when i play them as a slide show though each picture only lasts on the screen for about 10 seconds instead of 30. is this a problem or will it not matter as much? if it will be a problem, to anybody else who has used a ps3, how would i make each slide last the required 30 seconds?


thanks!


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14195483
> 
> 
> i´m going to try this thead, it seems there are may experience members on this thread regarding IR/BI issue.
> 
> 
> quick questions.. i never ever experience IR on white screen. But i do see some "IR" on black screen.
> 
> 
> what this means?
> 
> 
> IR is only IR when you see it on a White image? or on Black screen it´s also called IR?
> 
> 
> When you get IR on White, and when do you get on Black?
> 
> 
> I do get IR on black screen a lot! but never experience IR on white.
> 
> 
> Sorry for so many questions but i´m new to plasma tech.



Complicated question. Without explaining in detail:


Short lived IR on a dark screen will be brighter than usual

cause - residual wall charge


Long lived IR on a dark screen will be darker than usual with a brigher edge (halo)

cause - MgO sputtering to adjacent cells


Long lived IR on a white screen will always be darker than usual

cause - MgO sputtering onto phosphor


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/14207405
> 
> 
> Complicated question. Without explaining in detail:
> 
> 
> Short lived IR on a dark screen will be brighter than usual
> 
> cause - residual wall charge
> 
> 
> Long lived IR on a dark screen will be darker than usual with a brigher edge (halo)
> 
> cause - MgO sputtering to adjacent cells
> 
> 
> Long lived IR on a white screen will always be darker than usual
> 
> cause - MgO sputtering onto phosphor



any of these are called BI as well? or these are IR after all.. some will last longer than others but they will fade away?


I notice the 1st one, and the 2nd one... but so far both are fading away.

while i didn´t experience any IR on white, yet.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14209505
> 
> 
> any of these are called BI as well? or these are IR after all.. some will last longer than others but they will fade away?
> 
> 
> I notice the 1st one, and the 2nd one... but so far both are fading away.
> 
> while i didn´t experience any IR on white, yet.



IR and BI are terms that are interchangeable according to consumers and industry. You really have to look at the source/cause of the residual image to guage how serious it is.


1 - residual wall charge is benign and should easily resolve


2 - MgO sputtering is semi-permanent but can be resolved over time (hours to days)


3 - Phosphor aging is permanent and cannot be resolved unless you use some sort of negative image?


It is my opinion that most if not every single complaint you read about on this forum is due to #1 and #2 and not #3. Physics tells me that #3 is by far the hardest to achieve.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/14209589
> 
> 
> IR and BI are terms that are interchangeable according to consumers and industry. You really have to look at the source/cause of the residual image to guage how serious it is.
> 
> 
> 1 - residual wall charge is benign and should easily resolve
> 
> 
> 2 - MgO sputtering is semi-permanent but can be resolved over time (hours to days)
> 
> 
> 3 - Phosphor aging is permanent and cannot be resolved unless you use some sort of negative image?
> 
> 
> It is my opinion that most if not every single complaint you read about on this forum is due to #1 and #2 and not #3. Physics tells me that #3 is by far the hardest to achieve.



so number 3 is bascially what people call BI (no way to fix that)

number 1 and 2 are IR.. one is worst than the other.. but they fade away sooner or later, i´m correct?


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/14209589
> 
> 
> Physics tells me that #3 is by far the hardest to achieve.



Doesn't sound good for me then! I get that after 30 mins of playing Battlefield: Bad Company! It does fade away though.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14209811
> 
> 
> so number 3 is bascially what people call BI (no way to fix that)
> 
> number 1 and 2 are IR.. one is worst than the other.. but they fade away sooner or later, i´m correct?



One thing that everyone should now is that the terms IR and BI are used interchangeably and usually never refer to the cause. Aside from that, I would answer yes to your questions.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak* /forum/post/14209818
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound good for me then! I get that after 30 mins of playing Battlefield: Bad Company! It does fade away though.



On the contrary, 30min of anything will not age your phosphors and thus must be residual charge or MgO sputtering. The observation that it resolves itself only affirms this.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/14209916
> 
> 
> On the contrary, 30min of anything will not age your phosphors and thus must be residual charge or MgO sputtering. The observation that it resolves itself only affirms this.



So basically BI is age of the phosphors. right?


this lead me to a 2nd question, how long does it take to the phosphors to age uneven ?


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14209932
> 
> 
> So basically BI is age of the phosphors. right?
> 
> 
> this lead me to a 2nd question, how long does it take to the phosphors to age uneven ?



Since IR and BI terminolog is used interchangeably, I would say that "unresolvable" BI is aging of the phosphors. Data for phosphor aging is hard to find for current technology but from the little data I've seen I would say that it takes thousands of hours to produce a visible shift in aging that is permanent.


----------



## rwr1776

So, here's a question for folks. Take a look at the attached picture.


The Jackasses at Channel 2 want to be sure you remember who is providing live coverage of the local fireworks so were kind enough to include this torch bright logo on their screen.


I was outside going... "Ooooo....ahhhhh" while this thing played inside for about an hour.


Afterwards, I saw my first IR ever. I could see the image of that "2" on both solid black and solid white backgrounds, but not during normal viewing. The image faded gradually over about 5 minutes until it was completely gone.


The question is, how does that fare....average...better...worse than others experiences...


Here's the pic...


----------



## Aetherhole

I hate TV station logos. I can understand why they use them, but I still hate them because they are distracting to me... None of our channels are that obvious, though.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aetherhole* /forum/post/14223720
> 
> 
> I hate TV station logos. I can understand why they use them, but I still hate them because they are distracting to me... None of our channels are that obvious, though.



i think i got BI :-(


how long should i run signal pattern before called BI?


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14239414
> 
> 
> i think i got BI :-(
> 
> 
> how long should i run signal pattern before called BI?



Uh oh...what Display do you have and what caused the, let's be optimistic for now, IR?


According to my MFR, 40 minutes of whitewash should remove anything, YMMV. So far the longest its taken is 5, but I'd really need to hear your situation to know if it was similar.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14243704
> 
> 
> Uh oh...what Display do you have and what caused the, let's be optimistic for now, IR?
> 
> 
> According to my MFR, 40 minutes of whitewash should remove anything, YMMV. So far the longest its taken is 5, but I'd really need to hear your situation to know if it was similar.



i have a samsung hp4254. I played MGS4, i can still see the life hud and the lower bottom gun hud.


i left the scrolling signal for around 5hs yesterday, maybe more, while it´s still there, it´s fading away. I will keep using it 3-4hs today and tomorrow, if is IR it should go away by then. if not i guess i got BI.


i game 3-4hs on this set, i did the break in period, 100hs. What it´s funny is i played many games after the break in period, and the only Hud visible is MGS4. I even played and finished Battlefield, which has WHITE Hud and even that faded away.

i´m using really low contrast setting, 65%. while i saw many with 80% or more.


weird.


i didn`t use scrolling feature that much before yesterday, maybe that was my mistake. This is why i want to completely erease any kind of IR. This way from now on, after any long gaming session i´ll leave scrolling feature running for 90 min. But before i need to clear the MGS4 IR(hopefully).


----------



## ArchAngelGabriel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14223549
> 
> 
> So, here's a question for folks. Take a look at the attached picture.
> 
> 
> The Jackasses at Channel 2 want to be sure you remember who is providing live coverage of the local fireworks so were kind enough to include this torch bright logo on their screen.
> 
> 
> I was outside going... "Ooooo....ahhhhh" while this thing played inside for about an hour.
> 
> 
> Afterwards, I saw my first IR ever. I could see the image of that "2" on both solid black and solid white backgrounds, but not during normal viewing. The image faded gradually over about 5 minutes until it was completely gone.
> 
> 
> The question is, how does that fare....average...better...worse than others experiences...
> 
> 
> Here's the pic...



It looks like you have the same TV as me. I have a 50PG20... I know you have an LG for sure.


Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.


There is nothing wrong with the TV, either, the problem is these stations keeping on a solid, non transparent logo that gives uneven phospher wear. Basically, once I get this fixed (if I get it fixed) there will be no more History Channel HD until they change their damn logo. It is frustrating because they are one of the few stations that have sold a bold logo that stays on nearly the entire time.


This has been a eye-opener for me. While there is very little real world problems with what I am experiencing, it does bother me to know that I have the image in the screen. If I were to say, watch a dark movie, or a scene that gets all white (flash bang, or something) you would see it. Again, real world scenario isn't serious. But it is still frustrating.


This also isn't just 'IR' as other forms of IR pretty much are gone in seconds. Hell, even when I play super nintendo, Super Mario World for like 2 hours straight (static images all over) the IR clears up fast... But not the History Channel! Nope, that ***** of a logo wants to remain there and go with you wherever you go! Ok, done with my rant...










Edit ** Just wanted to state that I believe station logos are more harmful to your plasma than playing video games. Why? Well, most video games you play and you beat. Ok, so 40 hours broken up over several sessions and then you are done with that game. Since every game has a different place for these static images, you can be relatively sure it won't cause any long term problems. But a station logo! Yes, a station logo will get many more hours depending on your viewing habits. Like to watch iceroad truckers? Or Axemen? Or Universe? Or all the great programs that the history channel has to offer? Well, you will rack up, far far far more than 40 hours and that bold ***** of a logo is going to keep burning away the life of those phosphers. Yep, I strongly believe that bold non-transparent station logos are more harmful that video games on a Plasma TV.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14243784
> 
> 
> i have a samsung hp4254. I played MGS4, i can still see the life hud and the lower bottom gun hud.
> 
> 
> i left the scrolling signal for around 5hs yesterday, maybe more, while it´s still there, it´s fading away. I will keep using it 3-4hs today and tomorrow, if is IR it should go away by then. if not i guess i got BI.
> 
> 
> i game 3-4hs on this set, i did the break in period, 100hs. What it´s funny is i played many games after the break in period, and the only Hud visible is MGS4. I even played and finished Battlefield, which has WHITE Hud and even that faded away.
> 
> i´m using really low contrast setting, 65%. while i saw many with 80% or more.
> 
> 
> weird.
> 
> 
> i didn`t use scrolling feature that much before yesterday, maybe that was my mistake. This is why i want to completely erease any kind of IR. This way from now on, after any long gaming session i´ll leave scrolling feature running for 90 min. But before i need to clear the MGS4 IR(hopefully).



i´m happy to announce, after 3hs of Signal pattern, today the hud faded away 90% yupi !

It was IR after all.


----------



## KillerSpaz

IR goes away... it's called Image Retention, because it retains it for a short period... Burn-in is what you have...


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14249523
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.



I hope that you write a complaint letter to the History Channel. If enough people let them know that they are ruining TVs, they might listen.


----------



## cuzzin

I have a question regarding breaking in a plasma: if you are using the break in disc intermittently between movie and TV watching, should you count the time you spend watching movies and TV as part of the 150 hour break in if you are only going to be watching full screen content? Or should only the time that the disc is playing count towards the 150 hours?


----------



## 30XS955 User




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booker21* /forum/post/14249702
> 
> 
> i´m happy to announce, after 3hs of Signal pattern, today the hud faded away 90% yupi !
> 
> It was IR after all.



You'd think with more than half the game being cinematics, MGS4 would burn in the mission briefing screen rather than the HUD.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KillerSpaz* /forum/post/14249728
> 
> 
> IR goes away... it's called Image Retention, because it retains it for a short period... Burn-in is what you have...



you are wrong.

BI don´t go away...

IR there are short IR and Long IR.. i had a very long one.


----------



## booker21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *30XS955 User* /forum/post/14249880
> 
> 
> You'd think with more than half the game being cinematics, MGS4 would burn in the mission briefing screen rather than the HUD.



yeah, if there was one game i would think it would be safe to play was MGS4,i mean, with all cinematics, etc...


on the other hand i played battlefield and finished, white hud.. and that went away pretty fast.


----------



## EvansLight

Oh I wish i had found this place sooner. Already learned a whole lot more i didn't know about burn in and image retention.


I just got (as in not even 12 hours ago) a Samsung PN50A550 which after way too much research and staring at all the tvs in many a different store, i found was the best for the size i was after and for the price i was hoping to pay. I got it home and of course went right to enjoying HD for the first time. I have had the same 27inch CRT for going on 8 years now, and before that it was an even smaller one, this is a really big upgrade for me.


Anyways, getting side tracked. I knew about IR and BI and knew about some of the tools built in the tv to help fight it. I thought that was all i needed, of course i was wrong. I played Battlefield: Bad Company for about 2 hours with the settings pretty high (oh yea, i was stupid... i guess i hadnt done enough research) and i took a break, and was going to put it on the white screen to make sure there was no IR. And low and behold there was. it went away in under a minute, and now there is no trace of it.


Now to my question after what ended up being a short story. Should i worry about that bit of stupidity i did at the start? Ive already lowered the contrast, and am watching HBO for the rest of the night since theres no logos for the most part and it fills perfectly at 16:9. I was also wondering if i should use that break in DVD i found a link to.


I have read some of the thread, and probably should read more, but right now im half awake and am slowly getting tempted to just take this one back and get an LCD im also looking at that would save me $200 even thought its 4inches smaller. Anyways XD Thanks for any help and advice before hand in case i forget later


----------



## chwisch87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EvansLight* /forum/post/14250473
> 
> 
> Oh I wish i had found this place sooner. Already learned a whole lot more i didn't know about burn in and image retention.
> 
> 
> I just got (as in not even 12 hours ago) a Samsung PN50A550 which after way too much research and staring at all the tvs in many a different store, i found was the best for the size i was after and for the price i was hoping to pay. I got it home and of course went right to enjoying HD for the first time. I have had the same 27inch CRT for going on 8 years now, and before that it was an even smaller one, this is a really big upgrade for me.
> 
> 
> Anyways, getting side tracked. I knew about IR and BI and knew about some of the tools built in the tv to help fight it. I thought that was all i needed, of course i was wrong. I played Battlefield: Bad Company for about 2 hours with the settings pretty high (oh yea, i was stupid... i guess i hadnt done enough research) and i took a break, and was going to put it on the white screen to make sure there was no IR. And low and behold there was. it went away in under a minute, and now there is no trace of it.
> 
> 
> Now to my question after what ended up being a short story. Should i worry about that bit of stupidity i did at the start? Ive already lowered the contrast, and am watching HBO for the rest of the night since theres no logos for the most part and it fills perfectly at 16:9. I was also wondering if i should use that break in DVD i found a link to.
> 
> 
> I have read some of the thread, and probably should read more, but right now im half awake and am slowly getting tempted to just take this one back and get an LCD im also looking at that would save me $200 even thought its 4inches smaller. Anyways XD Thanks for any help and advice before hand in case i forget later



As long as you are mindful of what you are watching or doing, burn-in won't be an issue. I mean after the break in period, you just can't keep a static image on the screen for more than a few hours. Its pretty simple.


----------



## EvansLight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chwisch87* /forum/post/14251149
> 
> 
> As long as you are mindful of what you are watching or doing, burn-in won't be an issue. I mean after the break in period, you just can't keep a static image on the screen for more than a few hours. Its pretty simple.



Yea i wouldn't have left one on anyways. I knew not to do that at least. I just didn't know about breaking it in at first, and was just hoping that i didn't do any damage running it full blast the first few hours without knowing about the need to break it in.


----------



## Bigblue622

Guys this may be a stupid question or it may have already been asked but I'm not going through 22 pages to find it. I have a 42PC5D plasma from LG that I really enjoy. I bought it in April and I have had it serviced once already for sparkles.


I started to watch the tv in low power mode because IR was horrid, but after watching it in normal power I notice the picture is alot better even with contrast at 70-75 but IR is still pretty bad.


I'm thinking maybe I'm expecting too much and the IR is normal, while watching a movie there was a scene where a lamp was static for a couple minutes on a black background and when the screen moved I could see the whole outline of the lamp, as long as the background was black but once color hit it was no longer visible. Does that seem excessive?


----------



## ArchAngelGabriel

An update for my situation. I have ran white wash for about 1 hour, RGB/B&W solid colors changing (via fade) every 15 seconds from my PC for about 4 hours and watched the HD Discovery Channel for about 6 hours. Unfortunately, the HISTORY.COM is still slightly visible when I strain for it. Really bothers me to be honest... Like I said, this isn't abuse and I think it is bull **** that the Plasma MFG's can sit there and say that burn-in doesn't exist. In fact, it does, they just rename it to IR and say it is the 'long' type of IR. Pfft, whatever.


I am also guessing that many other people do not see IR because, quite frankly, they don't look for it. I have to be honest, I would not see it either if I didn't know it was there. But that isn't the point, really. The fact is, my screen has already experienced burn-in, when it was broke in properly (contrast set to 45 and brightness set to 45). No abuse here, which makes me somewhat angry when I see people post that PDP burn-in is a non issue.


Now, lets say I just have a bad set - then why wouldn't the MFG (LG, in this case) take care of me? If they truly believe that burn-in is an issue of the past and only happens under abuse, I think they would have hard time arguing that watching HDTV, History Channel would be considered 'abuse'. Something's gotta give here and it seems that we have PDP fanboys saying the issue doesn't exist, and then other people saying it is worse than it is. I am just saying from my POV, the issue exists. I can live with it, but I don't particular care for the sensitivity of these displays, not when I take really good care of my electronics and still experience it. I may write a letter to LG and see what their response is.


----------



## chwisch87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14259041
> 
> 
> I may write a letter to LG and see what their response is.



At least see what they are willing to do.


----------



## Nk1

It was suggested that when playing games on a plasma to take a five minute break every 30-60 minutes, switch the display over to a channel that fills the whole screen and let it run. This is probably being over protective, but it is not a bad idea. It is also good for your hand and eyes to take at least a 5-10 minute game rest/bathroom break at least once a hour.


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14259041
> 
> 
> An update for my situation. I have ran white wash for about 1 hour, RGB/B&W solid colors changing (via fade) every 15 seconds from my PC for about 4 hours and watched the HD Discovery Channel for about 6 hours. Unfortunately, the HISTORY.COM is still slightly visible when I strain for it. Really bothers me to be honest... Like I said, this isn't abuse and I think it is bull **** that the Plasma MFG's can sit there and say that burn-in doesn't exist. In fact, it does, they just rename it to IR and say it is the 'long' type of IR. Pfft, whatever.



Actually, I agree with this. If you have a retained image on the screen, whatever the cause or terminology used to describe it, and you find it annoying, then you have every right to complain. Unfortunately, this is considered normal for PDP technology at the moment. The research being done on this problem suggests you are among many who complain.



> Quote:
> I am also guessing that many other people do not see IR because, quite frankly, they don't look for it. I have to be honest, I would not see it either if I didn't know it was there. But that isn't the point, really. The fact is, my screen has already experienced burn-in, when it was broke in properly (contrast set to 45 and brightness set to 45). No abuse here, which makes me somewhat angry when I see people post that PDP burn-in is a non issue.



What these people you speak of are trying to say is that permanent damage is a non-issue. Temporary afterimages, however annoying, is still an issue. Especially long lasting ones like you have.


----------



## Kaju

Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kaju* /forum/post/14265681
> 
> 
> Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!



Doesnt look bad to me


----------



## 30XS955 User

Seriously, all you need to break it in is change the channel to an analog station and mess with the reception to make sure there is lots of snow.


----------



## RaiderRodney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kaju* /forum/post/14265681
> 
> 
> Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!



Should work fine


----------



## stradaONE8

Ok, so I was trying to get Evangelo's disc burned, but for the life of me, it wouldn't play properly. So I downloaded his slides and they were a bit off in color so I made my own.

Basically the same thing, 21 images of varying shades of gray a pure R G and B (@ various luminance levels). Same as Evangelo's slides but I ensured they were pure signals in Photoshop.


I have been using a USB key with the slides loaded directly playing on slideshow mode on my Pioneer 5020 and it works like a charm. So for those of you having issues with the disc, try this method. Additionally it saves your DVD player from having to run while your TV is breaking in. A win-win if you ask me.


----------



## Gixxer1

Ok here's a question for you guys.


I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?


Thanks for the info!


----------



## 2gumby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gixxer1* /forum/post/14279213
> 
> 
> Ok here's a question for you guys.
> 
> 
> I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info!



This has been answered many times. Please read a little before cluttering up the forum









The answer is: resolution does not matter.

So long as you fill up the screen with the images (no black or any other solid color bars - anywhere), you're fine with any resolution. Zoom if you need to to get rid of ALL bars. That's what I did.

And be sure to check in on things every now and then, just to ensure that:

(1) the DVD player is not stuck - and is now showing an error message or a single image forever - you can CAUSE burn-in if that were to happen and you didn't notice for hours.

(2) the DVD player IS continuously looping through all the images - this is so that the phosphors will age pretty evenly with all the different colors.


----------



## ArchAngelGabriel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14249523
> 
> 
> It looks like you have the same TV as me. I have a 50PG20... I know you have an LG for sure.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the TV, either, the problem is these stations keeping on a solid, non transparent logo that gives uneven phospher wear. Basically, once I get this fixed (if I get it fixed) there will be no more History Channel HD until they change their damn logo. It is frustrating because they are one of the few stations that have sold a bold logo that stays on nearly the entire time.
> 
> 
> This has been a eye-opener for me. While there is very little real world problems with what I am experiencing, it does bother me to know that I have the image in the screen. If I were to say, watch a dark movie, or a scene that gets all white (flash bang, or something) you would see it. Again, real world scenario isn't serious. But it is still frustrating.
> 
> 
> This also isn't just 'IR' as other forms of IR pretty much are gone in seconds. Hell, even when I play super nintendo, Super Mario World for like 2 hours straight (static images all over) the IR clears up fast... But not the History Channel! Nope, that ***** of a logo wants to remain there and go with you wherever you go! Ok, done with my rant...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit ** Just wanted to state that I believe station logos are more harmful to your plasma than playing video games. Why? Well, most video games you play and you beat. Ok, so 40 hours broken up over several sessions and then you are done with that game. Since every game has a different place for these static images, you can be relatively sure it won't cause any long term problems. But a station logo! Yes, a station logo will get many more hours depending on your viewing habits. Like to watch iceroad truckers? Or Axemen? Or Universe? Or all the great programs that the history channel has to offer? Well, you will rack up, far far far more than 40 hours and that bold ***** of a logo is going to keep burning away the life of those phosphers. Yep, I strongly believe that bold non-transparent station logos are more harmful that video games on a Plasma TV.




I figure I would update everyone... I now have about 30-40 more hours on the set since finding my history channel burn-in. Unfortunately, it is still there. I have not turned to the channel since... When I use the white-wash function I can see the history.com and even the logo sightly.


Not the end of the world, as It would be difficult to see under normal viewing circumstances... Just a bit upset though, because the set has been taken care of, I have been careful with it. I limited the time it was on the channel in the first place, but I guess that isn't enough.


My only hope at this point is the run the 'inverted' option and watch the channel for a long time. But that might make it worse. Does anyone have experience with that? I assume invert was created for that reason, but whether or not it will fix the uneven phosper wear (burn-in) is just a guess on my part. I'd hate to make it worse.


So here you go... My new LG 50PG20 has burn-in. On a side note, I looked at my friends plasma (Panny 42" 07' and and Sammy 50" 06') and both of them have signs of burn-in. My Dad's Dell W4200 05' (sammy for the most part) was used as a computer monitor for about 2 years and has only a very slight burn-in where the task bar was. All in all, the Dell faired the best in regards to burn-in, IMO.


I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in, or have never watched anything static on their screen. Or, I just happen to have seen it on the 4 Plasmas that I mentioned... A little bit bummed, honestly.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gixxer1* /forum/post/14279213
> 
> 
> Ok here's a question for you guys.
> 
> 
> I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info!



Your TV will always upconvert/downcovert everything received to display at its native resolution. So if you send it 480p and your TV is 1080p it will upconvert it and display it at 1080p.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14284090
> 
> 
> I figure I would update everyone... I now have about 30-40 more hours on the set since finding my history channel burn-in. Unfortunately, it is still there. I have not turned to the channel since... When I use the white-wash function I can see the history.com and even the logo sightly.
> 
> 
> Not the end of the world, as It would be difficult to see under normal viewing circumstances... Just a bit upset though, because the set has been taken care of, I have been careful with it. I limited the time it was on the channel in the first place, but I guess that isn't enough.
> 
> 
> My only hope at this point is the run the 'inverted' option and watch the channel for a long time. But that might make it worse. Does anyone have experience with that? I assume invert was created for that reason, but whether or not it will fix the uneven phosper wear (burn-in) is just a guess on my part. I'd hate to make it worse.
> 
> 
> So here you go... My new LG 50PG20 has burn-in. On a side note, I looked at my friends plasma (Panny 42" 07' and and Sammy 50" 06') and both of them have signs of burn-in. My Dad's Dell W4200 05' (sammy for the most part) was used as a computer monitor for about 2 years and has only a very slight burn-in where the task bar was. All in all, the Dell faired the best in regards to burn-in, IMO.
> 
> 
> I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in, or have never watched anything static on their screen. Or, I just happen to have seen it on the 4 Plasmas that I mentioned... A little bit bummed, honestly.



I don't think the inverse image thing was created to get rid of IR. In my opinion I would use that. I woudl stick with the white wash and just full screen HD content for as long as you can.


----------



## OgOgilby

It would be nice if the manufactures of plasmas (or someone with clout) would make the stations aware of the IR/BI problem with their obnoxious solid station logos that are constantly on the screen.


It is nice to see that quite a few stations use transparent logos, I just wish they all would.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OgOgilby* /forum/post/14284287
> 
> 
> It would be nice if the manufactures of plasmas (or someone with clout) would make the stations aware of the IR/BI problem with their obnoxious solid station logos that are constantly on the screen.
> 
> 
> It is nice to see that quite a few stations use transparent logos, I just wish they all would.



Plasma is the only one that has this issue so the other parts of the market (that if you combine them all dwarf the Plasma market) have no problems. I doubt stations would change for such a small percentage of the market.


----------



## mlfarris

Guys, I plan on receiving my Pioneer 6020 plasma any day now and I have a question about burn-in/image retention on plasmas in general. I've read numerous articles on this and most say to try to avoid leaving logos, etc. on the screen for long periods of time. My question is, how long is long? I was watching VH1-Classic the other day and noticed they had their logo displayed in the bottom right corner. It would disappear every now and then to show other advertisements, and it would also change colors from time to time and go away during commercials, but It was there the majority of the time during this 2-hour program. Would there be a concern with watching a single program (say 2 hours or so) with the logo displayed? I've never noticed until now, but it seems that there are a ton of cable channels that display their logo. Is watcing these channels a couple of hours at a time a cause for concern?


----------



## ROMAN O

2 hours I would not worry about. Be gentle for the first 150 hours. Not leave on pause for 8 hours


----------



## rwr1776




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROMAN O* /forum/post/14291217
> 
> 
> 2 hours I would not worry about. Be gentle for the first 150 hours. Not leave on pause for 8 hours



I agree with Roman, but would add something as it relates to Station Logos.


There are a few station logos that are downright evil and you need to watch out for them. Take a look at History-HD and MTV-HD as two examples. If you see any logos that are similar, I'd suggest taking special care.


My display is relatively resistant to IR, but torch bright Logo's leave an impression that I have learned to take seriously. This is espeically true if you use a DVR. Let's say you are watching a 2 hour show on History-HD and are skipping through the commercials. That is, essentially, leaving a static, torch bright, image on your plasma for 1.5 hours straight. That's bad.


If the logo's spin around, vanish for a while, or are translucent, its not an issue, but there are a few that do none of the above and will wreak havoc on your plasma.


I've taken to avoiding those channels as much as possible and if the content is especially compelling, whitewashing the logo out after I'm done watching the show.


In the meantime, we all need to continually inform channels like History HD, that their static logos are a public nuisance.


pax,

rwr


----------



## rwr1776

Btw...I found an e-mail address to use for History Channel.

[email protected] 


I've already sent a polite, but strongly worded, request to modify their logo/watermarking policies to be more akin to that used by HDNet and Discover HD.


Let's fill up their in-box, because it is to their advantage to change. Until they go translucent, my History Channel viewing will be extremely limited.


thoughts...

rwr


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14318180
> 
> 
> Btw...I found an e-mail address to use for History Channel.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> I've already sent a polite, but strongly worded, request to modify their logo/watermarking policies to be more akin to that used by HDNet and Discover HD.
> 
> 
> Let's fill up their in-box, because it is to their advantage to change. Until they go translucent, my History Channel viewing will be extremely limited.
> 
> 
> thoughts...
> 
> rwr



.. concur; they should know there's a fairly large plasmonite community out here that doesn't take kindly to having their emblem embossed on their screen. Or do they .. in which case, yr point regarding 'very' limited viewing may be the ticket; of course, these fat-heads may not care.










add: message sent.


----------



## ArchAngelGabriel

I sent an email out as well.


----------



## Test123455

Err...i was under the impression that IR/burn-in was pretty much a thing of the past and that people shouldn't worry about it when getting plasmas...


this thread has me worried lol. Feel like i should just stay LCD (which has its own fair share of problems).


----------



## jfly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwr1776* /forum/post/14318180
> 
> 
> Btw...I found an e-mail address to use for History Channel.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> I've already sent a polite, but strongly worded, request to modify their logo/watermarking policies to be more akin to that used by HDNet and Discover HD.
> 
> 
> Let's fill up their in-box, because it is to their advantage to change. Until they go translucent, my History Channel viewing will be extremely limited.
> 
> 
> thoughts...
> 
> rwr



Thanks for posting the address! I too have sent them an email.


----------



## awesomefabulous




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Test123455* /forum/post/14327605
> 
> 
> Err...i was under the impression that IR/burn-in was pretty much a thing of the past and that people shouldn't worry about it when getting plasmas...
> 
> 
> this thread has me worried lol. Feel like i should just stay LCD (which has its own fair share of problems).



It isn't a "problem" per say with modern broadcasts and technology, it is essentially stations refusing to update their broadcasts. I mean, Nickelodeon has a transparent logo for god's sakes. It's like saying "oh, thanks for shelling out the extra fee to receive our HD broadcast, but we are gonna go ahead and only broadcast audio in poor quality mono so that sound system you got is useless." People know you aren't supposed to use plasmas as a picture frame, so why be so far behind the curve?


----------



## Incarnate4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indij* /forum/post/14054733
> 
> 
> Here's the images. Focus on the center of the screen. There is a darker band in the center and a smaller one below it. There are other areas which might be not clear in the pics but more obvious in reality.



I just got a 5010, and I can see it on every color in the burn in dvd as well. Did this go away for you after the burn in period, or does the problem still exist? I can't really see it when watching TV, but if there is any color that fills most of the screen (like the burn in dvd), I can see it.


It bothers me for a TV this expensive, and to not have uniform colors.


----------



## netpez

Hi all... new to the plasma world and took advantage of the price drops for the Pioneer PDP-6010FD.


I have seen mentions of breaking in your sets, but don't know what the purpose is or how to do it.. Is there a dvd or bluray disk I get from somewhere? And how long do you run it, because there seem to be varying answers with this...


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netpez* /forum/post/14355761
> 
> 
> Hi all... new to the plasma world and took advantage of the price drops for the Pioneer PDP-6010FD.
> 
> 
> I have seen mentions of breaking in your sets, but don't know what the purpose is or how to do it.. Is there a dvd or bluray disk I get from somewhere? And how long do you run it, because there seem to be varying answers with this...



Start by reading the first post of the thread and go from there.


----------



## sfpx

(Please forgive any English syntax errors it's not my first language)


whew I just finished reading the whole thread (skipped only a few posts)










I won a LG 42PG20 in a contest and I have it for 2 days.


I haven't really tried it yet (just tested it a few minutes) because I wanted to be well informed before.


So from this thread I realize that the main problem seems to be the station logos.


IMO the stations/network/channels are to blame. What they should do is pretty simple:


1.Display a transparent logo


2.Move the logo (with fade-out fade-in) regularly (bottom right, bottom left, top right and top left)


3.Display no logo at all










Now in a case of ticker (stock market, sports results, etc) I guess there is nothing to do unfortunately.


Finally here is something I found while searching for "tv station logos plasma" on google.


It's an article in which the Plasma-tv producers talk about burn-in.


(Can't post the URL since it's my 1st post).


Samsung's answer is almost hilarious


> Quote:
> we recommend that you limit your viewing of stationary graphics and images, such as the dark side-bars on nonexpanded standard format television programs, stock market reports, video game displays, *station logos*, web sites, and computer graphics and patterns to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.



5% ? Are you kidding me ? What's the % of channels that display a logo ? I would guess that it's a lot higher than 5%. Basically you can't watch TV with a Plasma according to Samsung.


Since I bought a LCD (only 26" though) a few weeks before winning the Plasma I think I'll watch TV on it and reserve the plasma for movies.


But then again even movies can cause problems with the black bars.


Maybe I'll just use the Plasma as a decoration.

I'm just kidding of course


----------



## leftkidney

so is the burn in thingie that happens worse or the same as CRT - that is to say I already have a CRT (manily because of the colors and black level) and have not really worried about burn in with my CRT (it has happen stupid comcast DVR locked up, as they tend to do when I wasnt home and the TV was on and it had the bottom thingie on screen - now it has a small black line less than 1 pixel wide across the whole screen, in bright white it is the only time you can see it)


so is it more or less a worry with plasmas than CRT's


----------



## PENDRAG0ON

Panasonic is similar to a CRT (no burn-in after almost a year, but plenty of IR with a few games), but not quite as good from what I have read, Samsung is no where near a CRT (got burn-in on a Samsung plasma after less than a month) and Pioneer seems to be the Same or maybe better than a CRT. (I got to play around with a friend's new Pioneer 5010 right out of the box, and I just couldn't get it to show IR no matter what I did, and it wasn't even broken in yet)


----------



## the_Skywise

Same, maybe less if you're using the burn-in protection on the plasmas.


Like CRTs it depends somewhat on the manufacturer and how you use it.


I work in an AV company and we burned in images on dozens of CRTs just by leaving up the same GUI 24 hours a day. Likewise if you leave a Plasma set to CNN or FOX with the news tickers on the bottom as your primary watching for many hours a day you're going to get some IR at the bottom of the screen. On the flip side I'd fall asleep while watching CNN and leave it on for 6-7 hours at a time and never had a burn-in problem on my Panasonic. Pac-Man CE on my XBox360 would leave an IR signature (that quickly faded after a few seconds) from just 30 minutes of play. No other game I played did that just Pac-Man CE (and I play alot of games... I think it was just the intense/bright colors of that particular game)


Basically just treat your plasma like a CRT and you'll be fine. Don't run it in torch mode, don't show the same image on it for many hours.


----------



## andrewfee

It's definitely worse than CRT. Plasmas drive the pixels at full brightness (they create lower brightnesses by flashing them on/off at different rates) so they are much more susceptible to image retention/burn-in, even after leaving them on completely static screens for 2/3 hours sometimes.


I've honestly never seen even a hint of image retention let alone burn-in on any of the CRTs I've ever owned and yet I've seen it after just a few hours of gaming on all the plasmas that I've had, including a Kuro.


I also run my displays at low brightness settings, so that's not the issuecontrast has been at 1/3 or lower on most of them. (80-100 cd/m²)


You definitely have to be careful with what you're watching and for how long, even with the Kuros. (who seem to be the least susceptible to it)


----------



## leftkidney

well I have a KV-32HS510 SONY CRT and I have burned in a small black line and after looking at it closely now I can see one from when it goes into 16x9 mode and one from the more than 1.78:1 dvd


so if I get the kuro 50" pro-111 and watch a lot of movies that arent 1.78:1 could I have the same problem? - or a lot of 4x3 content?



this is a huge issue for me, I have returned many LCD's (4), Plasmas (2), and DLP's (3) because the black level was crap - even on a high end sony 52" XBR5 and the Panasonic plasma it looked like crap compared to my CRT - so I havent gotten a new TV that I like yet enough to keep it so I have herd these kuro's are on-par with CRT for black levels now so maybe I want to upgrade - maybe not since I herd about kuro LCD's which wouldnt have burn-in problems but could be as dark black maybe


I am in need of some expert advice from people who like me cant stand the blacks on anything other than a CRT who now have a plasma kuro 9G and also dont have problems with burn-in


----------



## ogbuehi

Well if black levels are the most important factor in your decision, it doesn't really matter how well a plasma handles burn in. The risk is always going to be there just like a CRT when it comes to burn in. I currently own a 65" plasma that I game alot on. No IR or burn in. I had a Samsung 32" HDCRT that just crapped out on me. Did lots of gaming on it and never had burn in or anything on it. Burn in will most likely happen in only extreme cases.


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14375887
> 
> 
> well I have a KV-32HS510 SONY CRT and I have burned in a small black line and after looking at it closely now I can see one from when it goes into 16x9 mode and one from the more than 1.78:1 dvd
> 
> 
> so if I get the kuro 50" pro-111 and watch a lot of movies that arent 1.78:1 could I have the same problem? - or a lot of 4x3 content?
> 
> 
> 
> this is a huge issue for me, I have returned many LCD's (4), Plasmas (2), and DLP's (3) because the black level was crap - even on a high end sony 52" XBR5 and the Panasonic plasma it looked like crap compared to my CRT - so I havent gotten a new TV that I like yet enough to keep it so I have herd these kuro's are on-par with CRT for black levels now so maybe I want to upgrade - maybe not since I herd about kuro LCD's which wouldnt have burn-in problems but could be as dark black maybe
> 
> 
> I am in need of some expert advice from people who like me cant stand the blacks on anything other than a CRT who now have a plasma kuro 9G and also dont have problems with burn-in



Thats odd you found panasonic to not have good blacks. Mine is the same as my sony HD CRT. I did have to adjust it a bit to get it there. I find it overall to be better than my sony CRT. Interesting.


I agree with you lcd is not there on black levels. it is not up to par in other areas also.


The kuros is king of tv's. I personally did not see a 1+ grand difference between that and my panasonic however. If you want black- it does not get much better than kuros.


If you watch more than a couple hours here and there in 4:3 you are asking for IR to happen. Movies are not that big a deal unless you watch 4 or 5 in a row. It really equals to your average usage of the tv.


Were talking about uneven aging of pixels. So use any part of your screen a whole lot more than another and the part you don't use as much over time will be brighter- maybe just a little.


The best advice I can give you is the Kuros is one of if not the best plasma they make right now. It is the most resistant to IR. panasonic is probablly almost as good there but the kuros has an edge in almost every area.


I have not heard or seen any cases of permanent IR on a panny or pio made in the last year or two. But most folks here do baby them just a little.


I don't like the thought of too much 4:3 or any bars on any plasma- I mean over 15%- 20% of total viewing time. They were meant for Blowing you away as far as hdtv goes- It's unforutnate we are still suffering from the lack of full screen programs but it is getting better all the time.


I expect the big switch to help out even more. I long for the day when 16:9 is the standard broadcast format for everyone, and those who choose to keep 4:3 can see bars top and bottom. I'm sick of seeing them on the sides. I can deal with 2.4:1.


Anyone who says CRT won't burn is wrong, ever seen an old pac man machine or something similar? But that is an extreme case. It's rare with normal use, my sony Crt has a warning about too much 4:3 in the manual. I have yet to cause more than a ghost on it though. Same with my panny plasma.


----------



## andrewfee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14375887
> 
> 
> well I have a KV-32HS510 SONY CRT and I have burned in a small black line and after looking at it closely now I can see one from when it goes into 16x9 mode and one from the more than 1.78:1 dvd



Generally marks on the screen from uneven wear (pillarboxing/letterboxing) shows as brighter patches, not darker ones. When you say it's a small black line, could it possibly be the aperture grille support wires? On some screens, they can be in roughly the same location as 2.35:1 black bars.


All Trinitron tubes have one, two or three wires going across the screen depending on the size to help stabilise the aperture grille. With a screen that size I'd expect to see two if not three.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALSW* /forum/post/14375976
> 
> 
> Anyone who says CRT won't burn is wrong, ever seen an old pac man machine or something similar? But that is an extreme case. It's rare with normal use, my sony Crt has a warning about too much 4:3 in the manual. I have yet to cause more than a ghost on it though. Same with my panny plasma.



There's no doubt that a CRT _can_ burn, but I have personally never seen it happen with any of my displays, even after leaving static images on them for hours on end. I have seen image retention on the Pioneers from less time with static images than any of my CRTs.




As for black levels, I was not happy with the Pioneer 8G black levels, and the screens this year from Panasonic, Samsung etc. still haven't caught up to them. I'm considering buying a 9G Pioneer, but I'm still concerned about the black levels. Even though most owners seem happy with them, most owners were happy with the 8G too


----------



## chadmak09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewfee* /forum/post/14376376
> 
> 
> Generally marks on the screen from uneven wear (pillarboxing/letterboxing) shows as brighter patches, not darker ones. When you say it's a small black line, could it possibly be the aperture grille support wires? On some screens, they can be in roughly the same location as 2.35:1 black bars.
> 
> 
> All Trinitron tubes have one, two or three wires going across the screen depending on the size to help stabilise the aperture grille. With a screen that size I'd expect to see two if not three.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no doubt that a CRT _can_ burn, but I have personally never seen it happen with any of my displays, even after leaving static images on them for hours on end. I have seen image retention on the Pioneers from less time with static images than any of my CRTs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for black levels, I was not happy with the Pioneer 8G black levels, and the screens this year from Panasonic, Samsung etc. still haven't caught up to them. I'm considering buying a 9G Pioneer, but I'm still concerned about the black levels. Even though most owners seem happy with them, most owners were happy with the 8G too…



I have seen Burn-in on CRT's many times.

I am a manufacturing engineer for G.E. and on our production floor many of our machines have CRT monitors and just about every one that is more than a few years old has permanent burn-in. These machines show the same operation screen all the time so you can see the operation screen on them even when you turn the TV off.


You were not happy with the black levels of the 8G pioneer?

And you are concerned about the black levels of the 9G kuro?

How black do you want it? What is your reference??

Any blacker than a 9G is pretty much flat total black (zero idle luminance).

No flat panel out there is capable of hitting the black levels of the 9G. So if you are concerned about the black levels of the 9G then you can pretty much be sure that you will dislike every other flatpanel out there.

Next year will be absolute black with the 10G kuro.


To the OP,

my answer would be yes, Burn-in is about the same plasma vs CRT. The best thing is to just not worry about burn-in unless you are buying a budget plasma. If it is a newer pio, panny, or sammy then don't worry about it. Anyone who says it is an issue is probably either an LCD owner who is trying to justify his/her purchase or an LCD salesman.


----------



## leftkidney

OK so I have seen that demo at CES with the ultra contrast kuro and a 8G kuro, the 8G looked unwatchable IMO but the prototype was just like a CRT
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/h...oncept-plasma/ 

so if the 9G isnt even half this it is not acceptable to me


yea it says its a 5010 not a 110 or 150 but I was told that its the same just the 110 and 150 have other things in the menu for pros


but the burn in is the worst thing I am worried about


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chadmak09* /forum/post/14376444
> 
> 
> Next year will be absolute black with the 10G kuro.



Even though it will have a Panasonic-sourced PDP module?


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14286473
> 
> 
> Plasma is the only one that has this issue so the other parts of the market (that if you combine them all dwarf the Plasma market) have no problems. I doubt stations would change for such a small percentage of the market.



You are right about plasma being only a percentage of the market. The other guy is right though. Those channel logos are annoying and just stupid. Who in the world does not know what channel they are watching after they just put it on the channel.


If the case I ever forgot happened a quick push of the info button would solve that.


----------



## leftkidney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALSW* /forum/post/14377215
> 
> 
> You are right about plasma being only a percentage of the market. The other guy is right though. Those channel logos are annoying and just stupid. Who in the world does not know what channel they are watching after they just put it on the channel.
> 
> 
> If the case I ever forgot happened a quick push of the info button would solve that.



well some people are stupid as hell and they must think it has to be there


its like those tickers - what am I sosposta read this or listen to the show? I cant do both!



but yea the 8G's blacks are unacceptable to me, I havent seen the 9G in person yet but if it is even slightly grey I cant have it


burn in is a major concern of mine since I know 3 people who have plasms that are burnt in permanently, one from only playing Madden on PS2, (you can see the score in the corner) and the others from HTPC's and the start button or the scroll bars along the side of the screen and bottom




I guess the question would be, is there a way to get the display replaced from burn in? - do they say this cant happen anymore? - burn in that is


or could I do something to the display to render it broken for the purpose of getting it replaced because of burn in - if it wont turn on can they really tell there is burn in?


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RandyWalters* /forum/post/14377087
> 
> 
> Even though it will have a Panasonic-sourced PDP module?



What "sourced PDP module"? Pioneer will only use Panasonic's manufacturing plant. It is still Pioneer designed glass panel, manufactured using Pioneer's know-how, driven using Pioneer's own electronics.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14379617
> 
> 
> but yea the 8G's blacks are unacceptable to me, I havent seen the 9G in person yet but if it is even slightly grey I cant have it



1. Just wondering... what kind of display are you using? It is the second blackest panel on the market. The blackest panel is the 9th G Pioneer.


2. I have the 8G panel, I don't see "grey" in the blacks. Are you sure you're not seeing it perform under "Dynamic Mode"?


3. The industry unanimously find that the 8G was the blackest panel ever built... and it's not black enough for you? weirrrrrrd.


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14379617
> 
> 
> well some people are stupid as hell and they must think it has to be there
> 
> 
> its like those tickers - what am I sosposta read this or listen to the show? I cant do both!
> 
> 
> 
> but yea the 8G's blacks are unacceptable to me, I havent seen the 9G in person yet but if it is even slightly grey I cant have it
> 
> 
> burn in is a major concern of mine since I know 3 people who have plasms that are burnt in permanently, one from only playing Madden on PS2, (you can see the score in the corner) and the others from HTPC's and the start button or the scroll bars along the side of the screen and bottom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the question would be, is there a way to get the display replaced from burn in? - do they say this cant happen anymore? - burn in that is
> 
> 
> or could I do something to the display to render it broken for the purpose of getting it replaced because of burn in - if it wont turn on can they really tell there is burn in?




I would not reccomnend to break your tv intentionally and do that. That is not only dishonest but also illegal more than likely. That's asking for trouble.


If you mess your tv with burn in up I could see you being upset, I really don't think these tv's would have game modes built in if you could not game a normal amount on them.


If you saw a burnt plasma recently it had to be a really old or cheap one otherwise someone just abused it. I do not believe a panny, sammy, or pio would do that.


----------



## leftkidney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14379935
> 
> 
> 1. Just wondering... what kind of display are you using? It is the second blackest panel on the market. The blackest panel is the 9th G Pioneer.
> 
> 
> 2. I have the 8G panel, I don't see "grey" in the blacks. Are you sure you're not seeing it perform under "Dynamic Mode"?
> 
> 
> 3. The industry unanimously find that the 8G was the blackest panel ever built... and it's not black enough for you? weirrrrrrd.



I have a SONY CRT Trinitron and I have bought a panasonic plasma (not sure of the model but it was last year around novomber and was a new model) and it was not black enough


the 8G is the blackest panel ever made yea, but not blacker than a CRT - and it was actually black but I had to adjust the brightness lower than normal - I only got a .025 ire as the lowest black level measured - I have herd the 9G's are around .012 to .008 at the lowest, my CRT measures .003 to .000 at the lowest - I have measured this with the CP5000U


----------



## David Susilo

Ahhhh, the CRT. Yes, nothing matches the CRT just yet. I find that the 8G is close enough to the point that I've bought one, but when compared to the 9G, 8G is not acceptable to me too. I've pre-ordered the 50" Signature Series panel.


Panasonic, on the other hand, both 850 and 800 series, they are not nearly as black as where they are supposed to be. PoS, IMO (I had the 800U for a week before I returned it).


----------



## leftkidney

it was a 50" I had but returned it in 4 days


I also returned some DLP's and LCD's as well - now I cant buy electronics at my local best buy, I have to go to another one that I havent returned 5 TV to, he he he


so the 8G is not good compaired to the 9G but hows the 9G as compaired to CRT's


----------



## daniel'son

.. enjoy your CRT's, all 40-something "s of it.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/14382261
> 
> 
> .. enjoy your CRT's, all 40-something "s of it.



what's the point of having huge screen size when the picture quality looks like @$$. On the other hand, there is a balance between quality and size. For me it's the 8G Kuro panels, for him (maybe) the 9G.


The 9G, IMO is as good as a CRT. No need to take measurement unit out. Trust your eyes. Do you like the PQ or not. As simple as that.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14382388
> 
> 
> what's the point of having huge screen size when the picture quality looks like @$$. On the other hand, there is a balance between quality and size. For me it's the 8G Kuro panels, for him (maybe) the 9G.



.. don't know from where your assessment came from, but from mine, the 1150hd i have & a relative's 50" A550 look very good w/ noticebly good blacks & colors.


maybe not as caught-up in darks as others, but am enjoying what is available to view 'now'.










p.s. I went from a 46" toshiba crt RPTV & relative, a Sony 32" trinitron.


----------



## David Susilo

well, it's all relative. I stare at weekly-calibrated CRT monitor every day at work so anything outside of that bugs me. I also have the PRO-1150 and that's the 1st FPD that's acceptable for me. Now that I've been seeing the 5020 quite often, I find that the PRO-1150 black level is not acceptable relative to the 5020.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14382554
> 
> 
> well, it's all relative. .. Now that I've been seeing the 5020 quite often, I find that the PRO-1150 black level is not acceptable relative to the 5020.



.. yes, indeed & you've found your solution then. congratulations.


----------



## plmn

My 46" Hitachi CRT RPTV had burn in after two years. And I was reasonably careful about it, stretching the screen or using gray bars most of the time.


It was worse on the left side, which leads me to believe it was caused by the channel guide on my old Dish 812 reciever, which got used a lot. The guide on this model did not fill the screen so it left black bars, and the left side was much brighter than the right in contrast to the black bars. I now have a VIP 622 so that shouldn't be an issue.


There is no question in my mind that my new plasma may burn if I'm not careful. I'm just completing my break in period, so far have not noticed any IR. The 50pz80 (my TV) demo unit at Sears, which has been playing Blu-Ray movies with black bars top and bottom almost exclusively all day long for several months, did show some IR when I switched to full screen but within a minute there was no trace that I could see.


I know some have claimed that it is still an issue if you know how to look for it, but if you don't notice it in normal viewing I wouldn't consider it a critical issue.


I guess my point is that although I don't doubt burn in could happen, even with my previous burn-in experience I'm not too worried about it. For the money, Plasma is just too good to pass up. I like LCD, but to get similar overall picture quality in a 50" I would have had to have spent a lot more money.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daniel'son* /forum/post/14382701
> 
> 
> .. yes, indeed & you've found your solution then. congratulations.



the biggest question is now how can I get rid of my PRO-1150 that's less than 3 months old


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14382919
> 
> 
> the biggest question is now how can I get rid of my PRO-1150 that's less than 3 months old



.. i thought there was a part of this 'site' that allowed us to advertise; then again, you've made a pretty good announcement just now. Seems many are desiring the model & unfortunately chosing the "wrong outlet" to buy a used one from. Should be from a member (like yourself) who more than likely has handled the set properly.


add: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14382203
> 
> 
> it was a 50" I had but returned it in 4 days
> 
> 
> I also returned some DLP's and LCD's as well - now I cant buy electronics at my local best buy, I have to go to another one that I havent returned 5 TV to, he he he
> 
> 
> so the 8G is not good compaired to the 9G but hows the 9G as compaired to CRT's



Ha, I can't go in my local one either- they told me not to come back, But they did give me 5 defective sets in a row. So I'd rather go somewhere else anyway.


Thought it was just me.


----------



## btdvox

On the main page it stated that plasmas have settings to defend against IR also, on top of Burn-In.

What is this setting if I may ask? Pixel Orbiter? Im getting a new Panny hopeflly and am wondering if it will have this option for gaming.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *btdvox* /forum/post/14385922
> 
> 
> On the main page it stated that plasmas have settings to defend against IR also, on top of Burn-In.
> 
> What is this setting if I may ask? Pixel Orbiter? Im getting a new Panny hopeflly and am wondering if it will have this option for gaming.



.. primarily for the Pioneer owner's; this may help though (Panasonic):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=946603


----------



## btdvox

^^ Man It says that the break in period for Panasonics in Canada's have already been put in!!! Thats awesome (Im in Canada







)


----------



## leftkidney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALSW* /forum/post/14385039
> 
> 
> Ha, I can't go in my local one either- they told me not to come back, But they did give me 5 defective sets in a row. So I'd rather go somewhere else anyway.
> 
> 
> Thought it was just me.



wel I didnt get defective ones so much as I told the sales person that I want to take it home and see if the blacks are dark enough for me compaired to my CRT - he laughed and said and I quote "anything is better than a CRT" what a dunb @ss I called him out on this right away (since I am training to be a ISF calibrator) and he still acted like he knew what he was talking about and told me he would personally handel the return if I didnt like it


well lets just say that after I did this 5 times or more, he had apparently researched it in the weeks following my "laughing in his face" because of the comment about CRT's, and the return of the 3rd TV in only 12 days, after this we tried 2 plasmas one a Pioneer - non KURO - and 1 a Panasonic (maybe 800u or something like that) which both were returned only 3 days after getting them home and *calibrated properly* were not up to par with my CRT


it was after the last TV was returned that I was told I cant get anymore at this store and I was pointed to a Magnolia store (which I didnt even know I had in this state) and now I have held off on getting more so I dont get kicked out of this store and maybe get a kuro 9G


----------



## jrcorwin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftkidney* /forum/post/14388505
> 
> 
> wel I didnt get defective ones so much as I told the sales person that I want to take it home and see if the blacks are dark enough for me compaired to my CRT - he laughed and said and I quote "anything is better than a CRT" what a dunb @ss I called him out on this right away (since I am training to be a ISF calibrator) and he still acted like he knew what he was talking about and told me he would personally handel the return if I didnt like it
> 
> 
> well lets just say that after I did this 5 times or more, he had apparently researched it in the weeks following my "laughing in his face" because of the comment about CRT's, and the return of the 3rd TV in only 12 days, after this we tried 2 plasmas one a *Pioneer - non KURO* - and 1 a Panasonic (maybe 800u or something like that) which both were returned only 3 days after getting them home and *calibrated properly* were not up to par with my CRT
> 
> 
> it was after the last TV was returned that I was told I cant get anymore at this store and I was pointed to a Magnolia store (which I didnt even know I had in this state) and now I have held off on getting more so I dont get kicked out of this store and maybe get a kuro 9G



They had a Pioneer that was old enough to be a non-Kuro? I figured the oldest they would have there would be an 8g.


----------



## leftkidney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrcorwin* /forum/post/14388524
> 
> 
> They had a Pioneer that was old enough to be a non-Kuro? I figured the oldest they would have there would be an 8g.



this was around a year ago or more


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plmn* /forum/post/14382818
> 
> 
> My 46" Hitachi CRT RPTV had burn in after two years. And I was reasonably careful about it, stretching the screen or using gray bars most of the time.
> 
> 
> It was worse on the left side, which leads me to believe it was caused by the channel guide on my old Dish 812 reciever, which got used a lot. The guide on this model did not fill the screen so it left black bars, and the left side was much brighter than the right in contrast to the black bars. I now have a VIP 622 so that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> 
> There is no question in my mind that my new plasma may burn if I'm not careful. I'm just completing my break in period, so far have not noticed any IR. The 50pz80 (my TV) demo unit at Sears, which has been playing Blu-Ray movies with black bars top and bottom almost exclusively all day long for several months, did show some IR when I switched to full screen but within a minute there was no trace that I could see.
> 
> 
> I know some have claimed that it is still an issue if you know how to look for it, but if you don't notice it in normal viewing I wouldn't consider it a critical issue.
> 
> 
> I guess my point is that although I don't doubt burn in could happen, even with my previous burn-in experience I'm not too worried about it. For the money, Plasma is just too good to pass up. I like LCD, but to get similar overall picture quality in a 50" I would have had to have spent a lot more money.



I don't think there is an lcd that could match a panny plasma in existence right now, You made the RIGHT choice.


----------



## Donnie_H

Hey guys, let me start by saying this site is very nice! Thanks to everyone that had a hand in putting this site together.


Ok, Here it goes. I bought a 50" samsung HPT5054 720p plasma tv back in april. When I am watching HD movies on my Toshiba HD-A3, I notice alot of the scenes are grainy looking. I dont notice this as much when I watch HD TV. I have the SA HD recorder from comcast. I am using the same HDMI cables on my SA box and my HD-A3 player. I dont know if it's in the cables or what. I have seen people talking about these new 1.3 HDMI cables but I dont know what the big difference is. Can someone shed some light on this matter?


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donnie_H* /forum/post/14394072
> 
> 
> .. Ok, Here it goes. I bought a 50" samsung HPT5054 720p plasma tv back in april. When I am watching HD movies on my Toshiba HD-A3, I notice alot of the scenes are grainy looking. I dont notice this as much when I watch HD TV. I have the SA HD recorder from comcast. I am using the same HDMI cables on my SA box and my HD-A3 player. I dont know if it's in the cables or what. I have seen people talking about these new 1.3 HDMI cables but I dont know what the big difference is. Can someone shed some light on this matter?



.. check yr settings & possibly using another type cable (component); refer link, starting w/ post #10:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...rainy+settings


----------



## Donnie_H

Thanks, I will try some of those settings and see what happend. I'm really not sure how many hours are on the set at this point. How do you tell?


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donnie_H* /forum/post/14394527
> 
> 
> Thanks, I will try some of those settings and see what happend. I'm really not sure how many hours are on the set at this point. How do you tell?



.. accessing yr service menu, but it seems it 'resets' everything so proceed w/ this warning/caution:

http://samsungplasmatvfaq.com/index....ervice_menu.3F 


add: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s#post12843890


----------



## Donnie_H

I will pass on that one and just guess that it has over 500 hours on it. I get IR every now and then, but it goes away. I wasnt aware about running the scrolling deal at least once a week for a couple hours so I will start doing that. First plasma I have owned and it is fantastic. Thanks once again daniel'son


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donnie_H* /forum/post/14394726
> 
> 
> I will pass on that one and just guess that it has over 500 hours on it. I get IR every now and then, but it goes away. I wasnt aware about running the scrolling deal at least once a week for a couple hours so I will start doing that. First plasma I have owned and it is fantastic. Thanks once again daniel'son



.. i wouldn't over-use the scrolling feature, only when IR is persistent & doesn't faint w/i reasonable amount of time. It appears yours is fine. Overusing, i've read, puts excess wear on your unit; only when needed.










add: pls acknowledge.


----------



## Donnie_H

Thanks Daniel. PM replied to.


----------



## mikey87

I just bought a 50" LG plasma 50pg25 i believe is the model. I bought into the futureshop salesman hype and went for that model instead of that samsung that i originally intended on buying. He told me it had burin in reduction features and lg covers all burn in with their warranty. This tv has absolutey no burn in features like the wipe or the orbitor.










Long story short, ive been playing BF Bad company and the image of the radar screen is not going away, as well as the ammo counter. Any tips on what i can do to get rid of it and prevent it in the future?


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399424
> 
> 
> .. Long story short, ive been playing BF Bad company and the image of the radar screen is not going away, as well as the ammo counter. Any tips on what i can do to get rid of it and prevent it in the future?



.. you could try the break-in DVD (post #1); burn w/ ImgBurn (free program):

http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download 


use in 1 hour spurts & mingle w/ some Pixar films to exercise the whole screen.










**add: page 86 of your owner's manual speaks of "white wash" function. * plus orbiter & inversion.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399424
> 
> 
> I just bought a 50" LG plasma 50pg25 i believe is the model. I bought into the futureshop salesman hype and went for that model instead of that samsung that i originally intended on buying. He told me it had burin in reduction features and lg covers all burn in with their warranty. This tv has absolutey no burn in features like the wipe or the orbitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long story short, ive been playing BF Bad company and the image of the radar screen is not going away, as well as the ammo counter. Any tips on what i can do to get rid of it and prevent it in the future?



FWIW, my Panasonic PX77U doesn't have any selectable burn in features either, and it never gets IR or burn in. I believe with many sets the orbiter feature is just on all the time, not something you turn on or off.


Anyway, have you taken the set out of Vivid or Dynamic or whatever mode LG calls it? Have you turned the contrast down to 50% or lower?


jeff


----------



## mikey87

That may have been the problem i did have it on vivid ever since i bought it about three weeks ago. I just turned the contrast down to 50 so hopefully after a while the ir will go away. Do you think running the break in dvd or just a normal dvd would help get rid of it?


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399602
> 
> 
> That may have been the problem i did have it on vivid ever since i bought it about three weeks ago. I just turned the contrast down to 50 so hopefully after a while the ir will go away. Do you think running the break in dvd or just a normal dvd would help get rid of it?



.. added to my last post: page 86 of your owner's manual speaks of orbiter, white wash & inversion for your plasma.


----------



## mikey87

Didnt see your post before daniel but thanks for the info. I guess i should look a lil harder through the manual lol.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399602
> 
> 
> That may have been the problem i did have it on vivid ever since i bought it about three weeks ago. I just turned the contrast down to 50 so hopefully after a while the ir will go away. Do you think running the break in dvd or just a normal dvd would help get rid of it?



oof, that could explain it. I'd find that white wash feature and try that out, or tune the TV to a full screen HD tv station that does not have a harsh logo and let it run overnight. Break in DVD should work fine too. Whatever you use make sure it covers the full screen and doesn't have bright static logos.


jeff


----------



## ALSW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/14399668
> 
> 
> oof, that could explain it. I'd find that white wash feature and try that out, or tune the TV to a full screen HD tv station that does not have a harsh logo and let it run overnight. Break in DVD should work fine too. Whatever you use make sure it covers the full screen and doesn't have bright static logos.
> 
> 
> jeff



It might take a few days to fix Ir that it caused 3 weeks on vivid to cause, That is about the worst possible way to have the tv set while it is new.


Just be careful about leaving the tv on unattended. Some times digital over the air can freeze if signal drops, and they tend to cut it back at night. If you have sat or cable the risk is minimum.


----------



## Donnie_H

I still get IR pretty often from watching movies/programs in 4:3 I have the sidebar set at light on the TV, and grey on the SA HD box. I keep my TV in movie mode. My brightness is at 46 and my contrast is at 80. All features are turned off. I have tried to go down on the contrast, but the picture gets too dark for my liking.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donnie_H* /forum/post/14401034
> 
> 
> I still get IR pretty often from watching movies/programs in 4:3 I have the sidebar set at light on the TV, and grey on the SA HD box. I keep my TV in movie mode. My brightness is at 46 and my contrast is at 80. All features are turned off. I have tried to go down on the contrast, but the picture gets too dark for my liking.



.. do you have to watch 4:3 mostly (for affect) or do you mind using "Just Scan" to fill the screen (so no side-bar IR); if plasma is relatively new also, less than ~200hrs (or so), you need to be careful watching 'alot' of 4:3 films/movies/programming (limit).


----------



## Donnie_H

I dont care to watch them in 4:3, but I dont like the stretch look either. Usually the only time anything is played in 4:3 is when my wife watches some of her shows like super nanny and such, so the time is very limited. As I said in a previous post, If I had to guess, I would say I have over 500 hours on the TV. Thats figuring 6 hours a day for the last 90 days. Somedays it's not on longer than a hour or so.


----------



## daniel'son




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donnie_H* /forum/post/14401707
> 
> 
> .. As I said in a previous post, If I had to guess, I would say I have over 500 hours on the TV. Thats figuring 6 hours a day for the last 90 days. Somedays it's not on longer than a hour or so.



.. "i have no response to that"










no, really, you're set is pretty well broke-in; hopefully, the IR doesn't 'linger' much & as it ages, will be merely a fading 'burp' you thought you saw.










best.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399424
> 
> 
> I just bought a 50" LG plasma 50pg25 i believe is the model. I bought into the futureshop salesman hype and went for that model instead of that samsung that i originally intended on buying. He told me it had burin in reduction features and lg covers all burn in with their warranty.



If the salesman told you that, then he was lying. Because they do not cover burn-in under warranty.



This is direct from page 72 of the owners manual for the LG.


http://us.lge.com/download/product/f...G25_manual.pdf 


"! NOTE


If a fixed image is displayed on the screen for a long time, the image could become imprinted on the screen and remain visible.


This phenomenon is common to all manufacturers and is not covered by warranty. "


----------



## Buckeye911

According to killswitch_19, burn-in is covered on the PG60 models.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post13621750


----------



## Johnla

Yeah well.... I believe what the both the printed on online manual from LG says about burn-in not being covered under warranty in this case, before I will ever believe what a salesman or someone else says that they heard second hand from their co-workers.


And just like for the PG25's, guess what it also says about this on page 72 in the PG60 manual......

http://us.lge.com/download/product/f...G60_manual.pdf 



"NOTE


If a fixed image is displayed on the screen for a long time, the image could become imprinted on the screen and remain visible.


This phenomenon is common to all manufacturers and is not covered by warranty."


----------



## westcoastinc

Does burn only happen in 4:3 mode when you have the bars on the side?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *westcoastinc* /forum/post/14427286
> 
> 
> Does burn only happen in 4:3 mode when you have the bars on the side?



No, it's certainly not the only way. You can even run the risk burn-in during full screen 16:9 viewing, if you watch too much of the wrong things, without also viewing enough of a mixture of other material to balance it out.


Anything like too much of a bright station logo, video game scores/health meter or even something like a stock market quote thats always moving along on the botton of the screen or anything else that's always in the same location can also do it. Granted it may take many hours or days or even months in many cases, but if you do too much of the same thing for long enough, it can happen.


----------



## westcoastinc

yah i guess plasma isnt for me i let my tv run on 24 hr sports netowrks fors hours a day even while im on the comp just listening to the sports stuff all night


----------



## kuru

hey guys =)


I noticed while I'm playing on my ps2 and some of my wii games [like super paper mario] that there's some thin black bars on the side. I handle this very carefully, I don't play for more than 3 hours straight. and I leave the built-in burn-in washing thing for hours after it.


but it would be much more convenient if there's a way to stretch the screen horizontally. I have a 42" samsung plasma ['08 models] and I noticed there's only an opthion for stretching the image vertically. and I was wandering if there was a way to stretch it horizontally.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14442896
> 
> 
> hey guys =)
> 
> 
> I noticed while I'm playing on my ps2 and some of my wii games [like super paper mario] that there's some thin black bars on the side. I handle this very carefully, I don't play for more than 3 hours straight. and I leave the built-in burn-in washing thing for hours after it.
> 
> 
> but it would be much more convenient if there's a way to stretch the screen horizontally. I have a 42" samsung plasma ['08 models] and I noticed there's only an opthion for stretching the image vertically. and I was wandering if there was a way to stretch it horizontally.



Model number? You should have zoom and stretch modes, zoom should fill the screen.


----------



## theBizMachine

Quick question.


I have a Samsung HP-T4254 Plasma.

I've had my screen in "break-in" settings since I bought it, January of this year. The TV should be past its break-in point, but I still keep these settings because I like the way it looks, and I know it is less likely to give me BI or IR problems.


Thing is when I play games, and I've played games with stagnant info bars, like GT5P, BF Bad Company, and won't get any kind of IR from these games at all. But then games like Forza 2, Saint's Row (especially), Uncharted, or MGS4, I will get a small amount of IR from. I attribute this to the colors of the bars, the aforementioned games have "softer" color palletes used for these bars, but the other games seem to use a brighter color. Not necessarily black and white either. For the small amount of time that I have ammo up on uncharted, is still enough time to get a little bit of noticeable IR in blacks.


Could there be something wrong with my break in settings? Maybe color is turned up to high? I'm sorry I can't post them right now, I'm at work. If it would be beneficial to post my settings, I will when I get home. Other than that, is this even behavior to worry about? When I get a full screen image it wipes out this IR in a matter of seconds it seems.


Is my TV set wrong, am I not actually out of break-in period yet? I don't really use it to much, if I get an hour a day I'm lucky.


Should I even worry, and this is just normal behavior?


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/14443116
> 
> 
> Model number? You should have zoom and stretch modes, zoom should fill the screen.



well the model difers from region to region so there's no point in telling you the model number since I live in asia. but what I know is that it's the '08 model and it's the one that comes with only 2 hdmi slot.


well zoom only stretches the image vertically but not horizontally.


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theBizMachine* /forum/post/14443330
> 
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung HP-T4254 Plasma.
> 
> I've had my screen in "break-in" settings since I bought it, January of this year. The TV should be past its break-in point, but I still keep these settings because I like the way it looks, and I know it is less likely to give me BI or IR problems.
> 
> 
> Thing is when I play games, and I've played games with stagnant info bars, like GT5P, BF Bad Company, and won't get any kind of IR from these games at all. But then games like Forza 2, Saint's Row (especially), Uncharted, or MGS4, I will get a small amount of IR from. I attribute this to the colors of the bars, the aforementioned games have "softer" color palletes used for these bars, but the other games seem to use a brighter color. Not necessarily black and white either. For the small amount of time that I have ammo up on uncharted, is still enough time to get a little bit of noticeable IR in blacks.
> 
> 
> Could there be something wrong with my break in settings? Maybe color is turned up to high? I'm sorry I can't post them right now, I'm at work. If it would be beneficial to post my settings, I will when I get home. Other than that, is this even behavior to worry about? When I get a full screen image it wipes out this IR in a matter of seconds it seems.
> 
> 
> Is my TV set wrong, am I not actually out of break-in period yet? I don't really use it to much, if I get an hour a day I'm lucky.
> 
> 
> Should I even worry, and this is just normal behavior?



well I have my plasma for a month now, and I can tell you that's this's perfectly normal imo. the set gives IR even if there's was a static image for 3 seconds. for example. if I started GTA4 and kept the map on for 2 seconds and then pressed start, I'll see some IR left by the map. but it goes away after watching some full screen content or using the built-in IR washing features. I played GTA4 and MGS4 for 6 hours straight each![with only 40 hours of breaking-in the set] and the IR went away after using the IR washing features for a couple of hours.


that's my thoughts on plasma sets.


you can also wait for responses from other people with more knowledge than me =D


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kuru* /forum/post/14443493
> 
> 
> well the model difers from region to region so there's no point in telling you the model number since I live in asia. but what I know is that it's the '08 model and it's the one that comes with only 2 hdmi slot.
> 
> 
> well zoom only stretches the image vertically but not horizontally.



I guess there isn't much point in anyone trying to answer your question then. I know models vary by region, the model number is usually different as well. Without a model number there is no way for anyone to know what features and capabilities your TV has. My best recommendation is to call customer service and ask them.


----------



## kuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/14443710
> 
> 
> I guess there isn't much point in anyone trying to answer your question then. I know models vary by region, the model number is usually different as well. Without a model number there is no way for anyone to know what features and capabilities your TV has. My best recommendation is to call customer service and ask them.



oh, well thx anyway =) I'll contact them and see what happens.


I thought that only the model names changes... oh well I guess I need to call samsung then =D


----------



## Full-Nelson

What's worse 'letterbox and 4:3' or a 'life bar' and 'ammo count'? BI from stationary color or non burned letterbox stuff?


----------



## admiralriker

Hello. First time Plasma owner. I have a Vizio VP322 (Dont flame because its not an LG, Panny....etc)


I am petrified of burn in. Just using the damn menu shows image retention on the screen. For gods sakes, the mute symbol shown for 3 seconds leaves retention.


I really want to take it back to walmart because im so afraid of burn in and ruining the tv.


I dont have a stand alone DVD player for the calibration break in dvd, I only have a ps3 and that thing will run my electric bill up.


Should I be so afraid and how can I break it in? It seems that every damn channel I watch has a symbol on it and im afraid im going to have the NBC peacock or FOX burnt in.


HELP ME!


----------



## Buckeye911

^^ If you are truly petrified of burn-in then I doubt any amount of reassurance would assuage your fears. You would probably be better off with an LCD. I do believe that the plasma model you own seems to have more of a problem with IR than first tier plasmas. I really don't worry about IR on my Panasonic plasma, I don't even take any precautions. I haven't had a problem with IR in the two and a half years I've had it.


----------



## corpfan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *admiralriker* /forum/post/14456349
> 
> 
> I really want to take it back to *walmart* because im so afraid of burn in and ruining the tv.



That was your 1st mistake...


----------



## admiralriker

Yes Walmart. Maybe some of us dont have $1000+ to buy a new TV.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *admiralriker* /forum/post/14456529
> 
> 
> Yes Walmart. Maybe some of us dont have $1000+ to buy a new TV.




The problem is not "WALMART" per se. Lesser brand plasmas (this includes LG and Samsung) drive their cells less efficiently which in return making it more to susceptible to IR which furthermore making them more susceptible to the possibiloity of burn-in.


Panasonic and Pioneer drive their cells a lot more efficiently making them far far far less susceptible to IR thus virtually eliminate the possibility of accidental burn-in.


----------



## corpfan1

Well...


Had the first "issue" with the new Kuro baby....


Was running the USB THUMBDRIVE BREAK-IN...


Went to sleep...


Woke up to check on the baby...


Slideshow was NOT RUNNING...was stuck on a "dimmed" menu of the USB files.


So, of course IR/BURN-IN of the menu and tools, etc..!!!


Now running VIDEO PATTERN to hopefully "get rid of" / wipe the baby.


Lesson: Babies are hard to take care of and require constant attention!


Crossing fingers now...



Any tips here? Is there a setting that if it "sits" on a menu the TV will shut off? Most it could have been this way was 6 hours.


----------



## teebone673

Hi all, I have had my Panny 42PZ85u for a couple months and did the break in period and did not game on it for the first 100 hours or so. Last night I played NCAA 09 on PS3 for a couple hours and I have all sorts of graphics on a black screen. I never noticed this before and I have played the game since I got it a month ago. Any advice to get rid of this? Also does the pixel orbiter or scrolling bar they have on the Anti Imange rententin menu help? I tried tyhe scrolling white bar and it didn't seem to do much. Also, this isn't burn in is it? Thanks.


----------



## Full-Nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *teebone673* /forum/post/14468687
> 
> 
> Hi all, I have had my Panny 42PZ85u for a couple months and did the break in period and did not game on it for the first 100 hours or so. Last night I played NCAA 09 on PS3 for a couple hours and I have all sorts of graphics on a black screen. I never noticed this before and I have played the game since I got it a month ago. Any advice to get rid of this? Also does the pixel orbiter or scrolling bar they have on the Anti Imange rententin menu help? I tried tyhe scrolling white bar and it didn't seem to do much. Also, this isn't burn in is it? Thanks.



Probably not as 2-3 hours won't be enough for burn-in. Just watch full screen TV for half a day and it should be gone.


----------



## teebone673

Ok, I'll give that a try. Thanks.


----------



## chris_fowler99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *corpfan1* /forum/post/14466754
> 
> 
> Well...
> 
> 
> Had the first "issue" with the new Kuro baby....
> 
> 
> Was running the USB THUMBDRIVE BREAK-IN...
> 
> 
> Went to sleep...
> 
> 
> Woke up to check on the baby...
> 
> 
> Slideshow was NOT RUNNING...was stuck on a "dimmed" menu of the USB files.
> 
> 
> So, of course IR/BURN-IN of the menu and tools, etc..!!!
> 
> 
> Now running VIDEO PATTERN to hopefully "get rid of" / wipe the baby.
> 
> 
> Lesson: Babies are hard to take care of and require constant attention!
> 
> 
> Crossing fingers now...
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips here? Is there a setting that if it "sits" on a menu the TV will shut off? Most it could have been this way was 6 hours.



I was running it off of DVD files on an HTPC.


Vista found upgrades in the middle of the night and rebooted, starting the Media Center menu that must have stayed up a few hours.










No IR from that.










Turned off auto-update/reboot. :lol:


Worked perfectly for two nights since.


----------



## Peeboy

Hey guys, I just got a new 60" plasma and when I run in the break in dvd I get bars on the top and bottom. Is it all right if I just zoom in to fill the whole screen? I read that running pixar movies was also good but I still have bars with those (even with the zoom). Any help would be mucho appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## Full-Nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peeboy* /forum/post/14471858
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I just got a new 60" plasma and when I run in the break in dvd I get bars on the top and bottom. Is it all right if I just zoom in to fill the whole screen? I read that running pixar movies was also good but I still have bars with those (even with the zoom). Any help would be mucho appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Zooming would be fine. And it would be less stress on your dvd player too.


----------



## blogorama

I have NBC Olympic logo IR on 2 week old Samsung 58" plasma










I've been watching the hell out of the olympics this past week with my tivo. Unfortunately since I skip commercials, the NBC logo has basically been showing on my tv for between 2-6 hours a day.


I broke the tv in for about a week while i was at work.


I can only see the IR when it is on a light, but not white, background. The best example is watching Generation Kill on HBO. The sky is often grey-white and the NBC logo shows up as a lighter white on top of that.


I've been running the "scrolling" feature for a solid day and it is still faintly there. Any advice?


----------



## Bogey62

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but doesn't it seem as though almost all TV stations have no regard for those of us with expensive televisions? The logos they use are obnoxiously large or solid in nature -- not to mention the graphics used for sporting events or crawls. The NFL Network is a prime example, as is Fox News.


Why can't they limit the use of such graphics or at least make them more transparent? This is especially true with the digital transition coming up next year and more and more people most likely buying hi-def TVs.


Just my venting two-cents as I run the break-in DVD on my brand new Samsung PN58A650 with my upscaling Denon DVD player.


----------



## fctyson0

hello everyone i just purchased a pioneer 5020.this is my first plasma tv.i am very new to the hd world so i hope someone can point me in the right way.most of the questions i have are due to break in and where i get the dvd and also where i can get the list of settings i should run if i dont use the break in?i am sure these questions have been asked over and over but the more i reed the more i get confused.



thanks frank


----------



## Phadeout




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blogorama* /forum/post/14472760
> 
> 
> I have NBC Olympic logo IR on 2 week old Samsung 58" plasma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching the hell out of the olympics this past week with my tivo. Unfortunately since I skip commercials, the NBC logo has basically been showing on my tv for between 2-6 hours a day.
> 
> 
> I broke the tv in for about a week while i was at work.
> 
> 
> I can only see the IR when it is on a light, but not white, background. The best example is watching Generation Kill on HBO. The sky is often grey-white and the NBC logo shows up as a lighter white on top of that.
> 
> 
> I've been running the "scrolling" feature for a solid day and it is still faintly there. Any advice?



Since no one else has said it, just keep watching full screen content that doesn't have that logo... it'll go away slowly.


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blogorama* /forum/post/14472760
> 
> 
> I have NBC Olympic logo IR on 2 week old Samsung 58" plasma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching the hell out of the olympics this past week with my tivo. Unfortunately since I skip commercials, the NBC logo has basically been showing on my tv for between 2-6 hours a day.
> 
> 
> I broke the tv in for about a week while i was at work.
> 
> 
> I can only see the IR when it is on a light, but not white, background. The best example is watching Generation Kill on HBO. The sky is often grey-white and the NBC logo shows up as a lighter white on top of that.
> 
> 
> I've been running the "scrolling" feature for a solid day and it is still faintly there. Any advice?



Keep running the side scroll every moment you aren't watching something and hopefully it will go away. Also, make sure you set the picture mode to "movie" and turn the contrast down to 64 or lower for the first 300 hours of use.


If you have a 30 day return policy on the set, I would give it a couple more days on side scroll. If it doesn't go away I'd exchange the set and then following the burn in recommendations on the new one.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogey62* /forum/post/14480865
> 
> 
> I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but doesn't it seem as though almost all TV stations have no regard for those of us with expensive televisions? The logos they use are obnoxiously large or solid in nature -- not to mention the graphics used for sporting events or crawls. The NFL Network is a prime example, as is Fox News.
> 
> 
> Why can't they limit the use of such graphics or at least make them more transparent? This is especially true with the digital transition coming up next year and more and more people most likely buying hi-def TVs.
> 
> 
> Just my venting two-cents as I run the break-in DVD on my brand new Samsung PN58A650 with my upscaling Denon DVD player.



As I have said before, Plasma is the only type of TV that has to worry about this and it is a SMALL fraction of the total number of TV's sold out there. The stations are not going to change for something that comprises a few percentage points of the total whole.


----------



## David Susilo

... and the other kinds of TVs have problems with the inability to do black and motion.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14493233
> 
> 
> ... and the other kinds of TVs have problems with the inability to do black and motion.



Not sure what that has to do with anything.


----------



## KooSoul

the break-in dvd doesn't contain black images right? i'm just wondering if there's no black image how would that prevent the burn-in of black bars?


----------



## Aetherhole

You've got the concept sort of wrong, Koo. Black bars are 'burned in' because the content between the black bars is wearing the phosphors while the black bars are displaying no content. Black on a digital display is an absence of light so there is no need to have a black test pattern in the break-in sequence.


However, if you feel you MUST have black screens, go with a USB thumbdrive and it will put a black screen between each of the test patterns automatically for you. That's if your panel allows for USB connection.


----------



## KooSoul

thanks for answering my question it's all clear to me now thanks


----------



## killerz298

My friend is having a TH50PZ800U delivered later this week and I told him to download the burn-in dvd. My question is what settings should his tv be set at? I have seen so many suggestions on here I am not sure which to listen to. I heard that 4:3 mode should be run for the entire burn in period and that brightness and contrast should be set to 0?


The Panasonic FAQ says:


# Make sure the plasma TV is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely fills the screen. The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the "Just" mode.

# Turn down the Picture setting (in the Picture menu) to +0.

# Briefly engage the 4:3 mode and confirm the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright". This can be adjusted in the Set Up menu.

# Always return the display mode that fills the screen (such as Just, Zoom, Full, or H-FILL).


Is the picture setting the same as brightness/contrast? Is this schedule ok: leave burn in running for 8-9 hours while he is at work. Watch the tv in full screen mode while relaxing at night. Leave tv off to cool down over night. Rinse and repeat until he hits 100 hours. Should he do this for more than 100 hours? Do you guys suggest anything else?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *killerz298* /forum/post/14524326
> 
> 
> My friend is having a TH50PZ800U delivered later this week and I told him to download the burn-in dvd. My question is what settings should his tv be set at? I have seen so many suggestions on here I am not sure which to listen to. I heard that 4:3 mode should be run for the entire burn in period and that brightness and contrast should be set to 0?
> 
> 
> The Panasonic FAQ says:
> 
> 
> # Make sure the plasma TV is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely fills the screen. The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the "Just" mode.
> 
> # Turn down the Picture setting (in the Picture menu) to +0.
> 
> # Briefly engage the 4:3 mode and confirm the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright". This can be adjusted in the Set Up menu.
> 
> # Always return the display mode that fills the screen (such as Just, Zoom, Full, or H-FILL).
> 
> 
> Is the picture setting the same as brightness/contrast? Is this schedule ok: leave burn in running for 8-9 hours while he is at work. Watch the tv in full screen mode while relaxing at night. Leave tv off to cool down over night. Rinse and repeat until he hits 100 hours. Should he do this for more than 100 hours? Do you guys suggest anything else?



If the only thing he is going to run is the break in DVD, the settings should be cranked up. The higher the better because it helps break in, you really push the phosphors. However, it is critical those are immediately turned down if he views anything else because settings that high will cause IR faster on regular broadcast.


----------



## zinfamous




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blogorama* /forum/post/14472760
> 
> 
> I have NBC Olympic logo IR on 2 week old Samsung 58" plasma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching the hell out of the olympics this past week with my tivo. Unfortunately since I skip commercials, the NBC logo has basically been showing on my tv for between 2-6 hours a day.
> 
> 
> I broke the tv in for about a week while i was at work.
> 
> 
> I can only see the IR when it is on a light, but not white, background. The best example is watching Generation Kill on HBO. The sky is often grey-white and the NBC logo shows up as a lighter white on top of that.
> 
> 
> I've been running the "scrolling" feature for a solid day and it is still faintly there. Any advice?



Oh man. same problem here. my ~2 year-old Samsung PDP did this to me a few days ago. damn shiny, shimmering, super-bright Olympics logo










I ran the test pattern for ~1 hour after first noticing it, and that cleared up most of it. Then, watching a wee-bit more Olympics the next day, it was back, with a vengeance. Of course, I couldn't NOT watch the Olympics, so I was test patterning during commercials for the closing ceremony.


My worry, is that I've heard that running the test pattern for too long can do some irreparable harm, or shorten the life of the set. Not sure if this is accurate though.


I brought brightness down from ~55 to 40 or so, in the meantime. It's mostly gone (hasn't showed up on my test BDs), but then the menu info for The Wire DVD showed some IR today, only on white background, after only a few seconds.


the panel never showed this much IR before, and so quickly...so I'm wondering if too much of the signal pattern has indeed done something awful. I recently had the "blue sparkly, voltage issue" serviced by BB--all he did was twist the voltage screw, rather than replace the panel. It worked, but it seems that the sparklies are coming back, and in full force. So far, only on light blue, greenish or gray backgrounds...but that's how it started the first time. Then it became more "permanent." The return of sparklies shortly preceded the olympic logo IR, and instead of just the right-hand edge of the screen...they seem to have spread to almost 1/5 to 1/4 the right side of the panel.


No worries though...still have 2+ years left on the warranty; so a brand new, updated set is on the horizon *crosses fingers*


----------



## keiperrc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikey87* /forum/post/14399424
> 
> 
> I just bought a 50" LG plasma 50pg25 i believe is the model. I bought into the futureshop salesman hype and went for that model instead of that samsung that i originally intended on buying. He told me it had burin in reduction features and lg covers all burn in with their warranty. This tv has absolutey no burn in features like the wipe or the orbitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long story short, ive been playing BF Bad company and the image of the radar screen is not going away, as well as the ammo counter. Any tips on what i can do to get rid of it and prevent it in the future?



I just noticed the exact same thing last night on my Samsung 58".. I am freaking out, and very upset.. I hope it fades.. The wife said she'd never see it if I hadn't of pointed it out, problem is, now when I watch TV I tend to focus on that corner to see how much it shows up







It bites because once I start playing that game I get into it and want to play for hours, I dont' want to not play anymore .. I might have to get a LCD for the bed room and play in there, but then I'll need a new BR player for the Living room.. I just HOPE this fades..


----------



## David Susilo

I find that LG and Samsung tend to IR more easily than Panasonic and Pioneer. They usually go away after several hours of white-wash though.


----------



## BrianInfo

Hey guys, just got my samsung PN58A650. I was using eaprogramming's break-in JPG files in a USB, playing it through the WISELINK. However, every time the slide show changes the break-in image to the next one, you can hear sorta the on-off-on-off buzz noise in between the changing. I know when you turn on the plasma, you can hear the zzzz noise normally~ But does this mean the plasma is in a off-mode during transition of break-in images? Dunno if turning on-off too often will shorten the life span of the plasma!!


Since I am using the WISELINK, I cant really change the contrast/brightness at all, as most of the posts here suggested to lower the values under 50. Will that be something I shall concern?


Do you normally set the slide show speed "Fast" or "Normal"?


Thx.


----------



## killerz298

I keep reading about all the problems with IR you guys seem to be having. I thought that the newer models pretty much did away with the issue?


----------



## Faris Kalin

Hey, I just got a LG 42PG20 plasma. I've got my brightness and contrast set to 40. Should I use the power save mode too? I've currently got it set to 1. All it seems to do is lower the brightness even more.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *killerz298* /forum/post/14539043
> 
> 
> I keep reading about all the problems with IR you guys seem to be having. I thought that the newer models pretty much did away with the issue?



I have yet to see IR from Panasonic and Pioneer but I've seen short-lived IR from Samsung and LG (none of them last more than an hour).


----------



## Phadeout




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14540564
> 
> 
> I have yet to see IR from Panasonic and Pioneer but I've seen short-lived IR from Samsung and LG (none of them last more than an hour).



When it comes to the Samsungs, I find that the 720P models have way worse IR than the 1080P models. I think maybe because the 720P models are still using the older designs and the 1080P models are a newer design/phosphor...


----------



## sammytvjunior23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phadeout* /forum/post/14542307
> 
> 
> When it comes to the Samsungs, I find that the 720P models have way worse IR than the 1080P models. I think maybe because the 720P models are still using the older designs and the 1080P models are a newer design/phosphor...



i think this is true, my new 1080p samsung has the same amount of IR as the last 720p, but washing out the IR is A LOT faster. my next plasma would more than likely be a panny, and if i had the money i'd go for a signature elite kuro.


----------



## Vegeta

I'll soon have a Panasonic PX80 and am going to use the SD card slot to play the images from http://www.eaprogramming.com/ website in a loop.


So, are Panasonic Plasmas baked in the factory so the TV only need to be broken in for 100hrs?


Also, should the contrast and brightness be set to 50% for the break-in period?


Also am I right in thinking that if you have any stubborn retention, use the screen washer with a higher contrast than your normal viewing contrast to clear the retention?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vegeta* /forum/post/14553875
> 
> 
> I'll soon have a Panasonic PX80 and am going to use the SD card slot to play the images from http://www.eaprogramming.com/ website in a loop.
> 
> 
> So, are Panasonic Plasmas baked in the factory so the TV only need to be broken in for 100hrs?
> 
> 
> Also, should the contrast and brightness be set to 50% for the break-in period?
> 
> 
> Also am I right in thinking that if you have any stubborn retention, use the screen washer with a higher contrast than your normal viewing contrast to clear the retention?



Check the Break-in FAQ to answer most these questions.


Cheers.


----------



## Edllguy

Help! SA8300HD STB has caused burn-in on Pioneer Elite Plasma Pro930HD


Has anyone experienced this. I freaked out when I saw it. I do not watch 4:3 programming on my plasma so I was surprised when I saw a left line (moderate burn in) and a right line (very light burn-in) of screen and my Rogers cable providers logo (very light burn-in) on the top left of screen. Will this go away? After analyzing my viewing habits and patters I concluded that when I activate the Scientific Atlanta's TV guide(left info button) to access the programming, I must be viewing it for longer periods of time than normal and is therefore causing burn-in. I can only speculate this as I cannot think of any other type of abuse that I'm inadvertently causing to the dispaly.


Can anyone suggest what settings on the on the SA8300HD STB I can activate to lesson the light output of the TV guide and other on screen displays of this STB.


Thanks everyone. I sure hope someone can help or reassure me.


----------



## cmattp

I just became a proud owner of a 58" PZ800U Panny.I downloaded the DVD breakin file to my SD card, and was curious of how much time I should allow for the slideshow to be on the screen. I ran it last night with a one second interval in between the different colors. Also I have read when running the breakin I should turn up the settings, is this true? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmattp* /forum/post/14568900
> 
> 
> I just became a proud owner of a 58" PZ800U Panny.I downloaded the DVD breakin file to my SD card, and was curious of how much time I should allow for the slideshow to be on the screen. I ran it last night with a one second interval in between the different colors. Also I have read when running the breakin I should turn up the settings, is this true? Thanks in advance.



Check out the Break-in FAQ. Quick answer, let it run 24hrs a day, you'll hit your 100 hours much faster.


----------



## hdtvtrouble

I just got an open box 8G Pioneer, i'll be receiving it sometime next week and wanted to ask a few questions concerning Burn in/IR/Break in.

1- Do i have to use a break in DVD, since this an open box unit i'm not sure if i should do that. Also if i watch full screen content for the first couple of weeks do i still need to use the break in DVD?

2- To avoid image retention and burn in what should i do if for a example if i need to pause a movie or a game, should i turn the tv off everytime i do that?

3-I'm new to plasma sets so any suggestions concerning Burn in/IR/Break in will be helpful


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvtrouble* /forum/post/14571362
> 
> 
> I just got an open box 8G Pioneer, i'll be receiving it sometime next week and wanted to ask a few questions concerning Burn in/IR/Break in.
> 
> 1- Do i have to use a break in DVD, since this an open box unit i'm not sure if i should do that. Also if i watch full screen content for the first couple of weeks do i still need to use the break in DVD?
> 
> 2- To avoid image retention and burn in what should i do if for a example if i need to pause a movie or a game, should i turn the tv off everytime i do that?
> 
> 3-I'm new to plasma sets so any suggestions concerning Burn in/IR/Break in will be helpful



Most of the info in the Panasonic Break-in FAQ will apply to the Pio.


----------



## Vegeta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14569578
> 
> 
> Check out the Break-in FAQ. Quick answer, let it run 24hrs a day, you'll hit your 100 hours much faster.



I want to break-in my Plasma with the slideshow pictures from the eaprogramming website. How long should each color stay on screen for? 30 seconds?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vegeta* /forum/post/14574991
> 
> 
> I want to break-in my Plasma with the slideshow pictures from the eaprogramming website. How long should each color stay on screen for? 30 seconds?



It's not critical. I just used the default on the Panny which I think is 5 sec. 30 seconds does seem a bit long though.


----------



## EL DUDE

True or false? The more hours you put on your plasmas the picture gets better? If so, after how many hours?


----------



## David Susilo

after about 100 to 200 hours.


----------



## ToiletDucky

Oh no!!!


I left for a four day trip. Came home and my new 50" 40A450 plasma has "USA HD" logo on the screen. Anyway that I can get this off it? I put it on the white screen and I can see it still in the bottom right. I put the Burn-in DVD in the PS3 and have it playing right now. Is this fixable?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ToiletDucky* /forum/post/14622688
> 
> 
> Oh no!!!
> 
> 
> I left for a four day trip. Came home and my new 50" 40A450 plasma has "USA HD" logo on the screen. Anyway that I can get this off it? I put it on the white screen and I can see it still in the bottom right. I put the Burn-in DVD in the PS3 and have it playing right now. Is this fixable?



You must be joking! If you're not, good luck. That sounds like a textbook burn-in to me. Never going away is my bet.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ToiletDucky* /forum/post/14622688
> 
> 
> Oh no!!!
> 
> 
> I left for a four day trip. Came home and my new 50" 40A450 plasma has "USA HD" logo on the screen. Anyway that I can get this off it? I put it on the white screen and I can see it still in the bottom right. I put the Burn-in DVD in the PS3 and have it playing right now. Is this fixable?



You had USA on for 4 straights days? I really doubt that image is going to go away. You mgiht be able to lighten it up with what you are doing, but you will be hard pressed to make it go away completely.


----------



## Buckeye911

My best guess is that it will go away eventually. Pioneer commissioned a study in 2005 where a static image, the menu from Half-Life 2, was left on the screens for 48 hours straight. LCDs tested showed no sign of image retention while it was clear on the plasmas tested. All traces of IR on the plasmas disappeared however after 24 hours straight of playing a DVD movie. Here is a link to the full report.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf


----------



## Phadeout




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14623031
> 
> 
> You must be joking! If you're not, good luck. That sounds like a textbook burn-in to me. Never going away is my bet.



Bull.


Just run the Scrolling Anti-Burn feature or watch regular material for a couple days. It'll go away.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phadeout* /forum/post/14627533
> 
> 
> Bull.
> 
> 
> Just run the Scrolling Anti-Burn feature or watch regular material for a couple days. It'll go away.



You're entitled to your opinion but I wouldn't call it Bull. That's a very long time on one image. In fact, if it does go away it will shed a whole new light on Burn-in probability.


----------



## aphex

i dunno, but all this IR/Burn-In talk is just scaring me. I don't have good luck with TV's to begin with, maybe I should just suck it up and spend the extra on a higher end Samsung LCD that I don't have to worry about.


I really do like the look of the Plasma better, but with my luck, I just don't trust it.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aphex* /forum/post/14638130
> 
> 
> i dunno, but all this IR/Burn-In talk is just scaring me. I don't have good luck with TV's to begin with, maybe I should just suck it up and spend the extra on a higher end Samsung LCD that I don't have to worry about.
> 
> 
> I really do like the look of the Plasma better, but with my luck, I just don't trust it.



I'll try to assuage your fears.


Previous to my purchase of an 85u I had been looking for a new TV for 2-3 years, kind of hobbling by with my 15 yr. old 27" trinitron. The set wasn't just old it was failing in several ways; it had become so soft as to make text of any kind illegible, it would only power on after repeated (10-15 pushes) of the power button, the RCA ins were shorting, etc.


Why was I waitring so long? I too preferred plasma over LCD but the size/pricepoint/reliablilty just weren't there for me.


This year was the turning point. The 27" completely quit, forcing me to use an old 19" Sanyo (the Horror!). The price on larger plasmas came down a lot (in fact my target range had always been around $1k, I only paid about $200 more than that). The burn-in and IR resistance of these panels had improved so dramatically that it's almost a non-issue now.


As a reference point for the Brun/IR issue, I've got 4 kids, 2 teens and 2 toddlers. They aren't exactly the most attentive (the teens are pretty good though) to how they use the TV. I've not had a single issue of IR and certainly no Burn-in. I watch plenty of 4:3 (though if it's not HD I usually watch it in Just mode) and lots of letterboxed movies.


Fact is, if you like accuracy and film like quality, you won't be happy with an LCD. 120hz will not remove motion blur and nothing will help with off angle viewing.


----------



## jetsfan4ever80

So I'm debating between a 32" LCD and a 32" Plasma, particularly the Insignia NS-PDP32-09 which I've heard pretty good things about considering the price. I've been reading through this for around 30 minutes and still have some questions. Just keep in mind, that I typically will use this TV to watch sports, the news, play my Xbox 360, and will occasionally watch some movies.


1. After I run the burn in DVD for 100 hours do I still have to worry about burn in / IR, and if so how concerned should I be?


2. How prevalent is IR on plasmas? Should I expect to see IR every time I watch my TV for four or so hours?


3. Will there be any lag when playing video games on a plasma?


Thanks for all the help, all these posts have really guided me in how to approach buying a new TV.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetsfan4ever80* /forum/post/14645454
> 
> 
> So I'm debating between a 32" LCD and a 32" Plasma, particularly the Insignia NS-PDP32-09 which I've heard pretty good things about considering the price. I've been reading through this for around 30 minutes and still have some questions. Just keep in mind, that I typically will use this TV to watch sports, the news, play my Xbox 360, and will occasionally watch some movies.
> 
> 
> 1. After I run the burn in DVD for 100 hours do I still have to worry about burn in / IR, and if so how concerned should I be?
> 
> 
> 2. How prevalent is IR on plasmas? Should I expect to see IR every time I watch my TV for four or so hours?
> 
> 
> 3. Will there be any lag when playing video games on a plasma?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help, all these posts have really guided me in how to approach buying a new TV.



Check the Break-in FAQ for the first two. On the third question, if your'e concerned about lag you should forget the LCD, no competition with plasma whatsoever.


----------



## Rhyvven

I find it it interesting, yet understandable of course, the concern regarding IR/Burn in. I have a Samsung PN50A650 ordered from Amazon 9/9 due to arrive next week. I have downloaded the burn DVD and images to run off a thumb drive also. I have done my reading in the thread too. BUT...


If it helps anyone, I am replacing a Hitachi 51F510 RPTV that I have had for about three years. I was careful with contrast, brightness, etc. from the get go. However, from day one I played my 360 at least 2 to 3 hours each day. I believe I was playing Oblivion at that point. Static compass and gauges on screen. After playing I would leave the screen filled with some tv channel for an hour or so. Then turn the set off and repeat.


Within in a week or two I was playing up to 6 to 7 hours of games a day (yeah, I know...go outside







) and then l left the screen set to a channel after gaming for an hour or so.


Again, this is a CRT RPTV set. Have logged HUNDREDS of hours of gaming on it. Mostly gaming actually, I'd say 95% use rate....and....NEVER, not once has ANY IR or Burn-in occurred.


So YES, be "cautious" with the the new plasma - heck it is an investment after all. But I think the overwhelming terror some people feel is bad for your health.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rhyvven* /forum/post/14647718
> 
> 
> So YES, be "cautious" with the the new plasma - heck it is an investment after all. But I think the overwhelming terror some people feel is bad for your health.



Well put.


----------



## CragAntler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ObiKenobi* /forum/post/13602013
> 
> 
> I second this. I'd love to see someone actually provide a real case of burn-in that's happened within the last few generation of plasmas. Otherwise the people who keep trying to spread that bs either need to shut up.



Then get ready to show some love!


I purchased a Samsung 58A550 in August from Circuit City for 3K. No mention of any "break-in period" from sales rep, installer guys, nor Samsung manual. First thing I did was pop a blu-ray movie with letterboxing (top/bottom black bars) into my new Panny blu-ray player and enjoy an incredible 1080P picture for the next 90 mins or so, then shut it down.


Later that day, sat down with the manual and checked out all the features, including the anti-burn in stuff, and put up the all-white screen. Surprise! Right where the movie was, there was now a faint-but-quite noticeable rectangular IR, with sharp borders indicating where the black letterbox bars had stopped. I ran the scroll feature for hours trying to get ride of this. Then I found this site, and downloaded, burned, and ran the break-in DVD at break-in settings for @ 250 hrs. None of these measures washed away the rectangular IR, which means it was permanent BURN-IN, probably from my having watched that movie at factory default settings.


I returned the set at the 30-day deadline, and they brought me a new one. This one I immediately turned down the settings to break-in levels, then put up the all-white screen. Lo and behold, I see 3 distinct, 3" wide horizontal bands of very faint blue color crossing the entire width of the panel, one a couple inches from the top, one in the center, the third a couple inches from the bottom.


I went ahead and repeated the break-in procedures to see if they would disappear. After 250 hours on the disk at low settings, they are just as noticeable as when delivered. My guess is Circuit City swapped me a previously returned set from some other chump, hoping I would not notice. I will be returning this one tomorrow, but here are TWO sets with clear burn-in on the panels, not simple IR that fades away in time.


My first set may have been factory new, but having rcvd no warnings nor advice re break-in settings, watching a letterbox movie for just 90 mins at factory defaults may well have caused this burn-in; unless that set was also a floor model or was not broken in either. The second set clearly had to have been either a floor model or a store return, since it had perm. burn-in upon delivery.


I must admit, however, that having followed the break-in advice from this forum, I have not experienced any additional burn-in issues, and only minimal temporary IR now that I'm watching using the C-NET post-break-in settings. The PQ is OUTSTANDING on this set, and I'd like to stick with this model if I can just get CC to deliver me a "pure," factory sealed model.


----------



## aphex

So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" 720i Samsung plasma (I was looking for the 1080p 550, but since its discontinued they didn't get a floor model like the other local stores), the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.


My friend's roommate (who has the 550 Sammy) has bad IR from an ESPN logo after watching a football game (and he broke his in) and had been trying to get it off without much luck so far.


As much as I want to love Plasma, its things like this that just scare me. I dunno.


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aphex* /forum/post/14653119
> 
> 
> So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" 720i Samsung plasma (I was looking for the 1080p 550, but since its discontinued they didn't get a floor model like the other local stores), the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.
> 
> 
> My friend's roommate (who has the 550 Sammy) has bad IR from an ESPN logo after watching a football game (and he broke his in) and had been trying to get it off without much luck so far.
> 
> 
> As much as I want to love Plasma, its things like this that just scare me. I dunno.



I have a Samsung PN50A450 and I am getting some IR from the words "Searching For Game" in the Halo 3 matchmaking screen. I have been trying to get rid of it for several days now and so far I have not been able to get rid of it. I'm sorry but after this I will never recommend a plasma to a gamer. Everyone says oh it will be alright etc., but I am not getting that here. Maybe on other models, but Samsung pretty much sucks in Plasma.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CragAntler* /forum/post/14652394
> 
> 
> ...I purchased a Samsung 58A550 in August from Circuit City for 3K...
> 
> 
> Later that day, sat down with the manual and checked out all the features, including the anti-burn in stuff, and put up the all-white screen. Surprise! Right where the movie was, there was now a faint-but-quite noticeable rectangular IR, ...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aphex* /forum/post/14653119
> 
> 
> ....My friend's roommate (who has the 550 Sammy) has bad IR from an ESPN logo after watching a football game (and he broke his in) and had been trying to get it off without much luck so far....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak* /forum/post/14653269
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung PN50A450 and I am getting some IR from the words "Searching For Game" in the Halo 3 matchmaking screen. I have been trying to get rid of it for several days now and so far I have not been able to get rid of it. I'm sorry but after this I will never recommend a plasma to a gamer. Everyone says oh it will be alright etc., but I am not getting that here. Maybe on other models, but Samsung pretty much sucks in Plasma.



Well I hate to say it but these are some of the primary reasons I shied away from the Sammys. In fact the only good arguments I could see in their favor was purported lower noise (which in fact hasn't been a problem on the Panny) and better settings controls. Other than that, I've not heard many good things about them where IR and Burn-in are concerned. I'm at several hundred hours now on my 85u with no IR and certainly no Burn-in.


Perhaps the reported IR and Burn-in improvements of the Pannys and Pios haven't been taken seriously enough.


There are plenty of gamers using Panny's by the way with no issues.


----------



## greenjp

I've posted this same info several times, but it bears repeating given what's on this page of the thread.


I have a Panasonic 50PX77U, got it in January. When I got the set, it was set in Vivid mode with the contrast cranked all the way up. I switched it to Normal/Standard mode, cut the contrast to 50%, and started using it. A mix of Xbox 360 (mainly Call of Duty 4 and Mass Effect at the time), DirecTV HD, and movies. I let the set run overnight and during my work day a few times on HD Theater. After about a week I put the settings up to those from the CNET review and tweaked to my liking.


No break in DVD, no avoiding static images or games or letter box bars. The only IR I have ever seen on this set was after the first letterboxed movie I watched. The letter box bars were very slightly noticeable when the screen flashed back to the bright white Xbox loading screen when I stopped the movie. They returned to the same brightness as the rest of the screen in under 10 seconds. That no longer occurs.


I've been using the set as described above for the last 8 months and never see any IR and certainly no burn in. It just doesn't happen. Watched football all day last Sunday and not a hint of it.


Aside from the first week of having the contrast low and running some extra HD Theater, I don't take any major precautions. I do have the TV and my DirecTV box set up for gray bars on 4:3 shows, and I will use a stretch mode on the occasions that one of the HD channels is showing a 4:3 show.


jeff


----------



## xradman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aphex* /forum/post/14653119
> 
> 
> So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" 720i Samsung plasma (I was looking for the 1080p 550, but since its discontinued they didn't get a floor model like the other local stores), the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.
> 
> 
> My friend's roommate (who has the 550 Sammy) has bad IR from an ESPN logo after watching a football game (and he broke his in) and had been trying to get it off without much luck so far.
> 
> 
> As much as I want to love Plasma, its things like this that just scare me. I dunno.



I saw the same thing with the Pioneer Plasma at Magnolia. As much as people talk about burn in and image retention no longer a problem with plasma, it still occurs. The Pioneer set had been tuned to ESPN and as much as the Magnolia sales guy tried, he could not get rid of the ESPN bar burn in.


----------



## CragAntler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aphex* /forum/post/14653119
> 
> 
> So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" 720i Samsung plasma (I was looking for the 1080p 550, but since its discontinued they didn't get a floor model like the other local stores), the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.
> 
> 
> My friend's roommate (who has the 550 Sammy) has bad IR from an ESPN logo after watching a football game (and he broke his in) and had been trying to get it off without much luck so far.
> 
> 
> As much as I want to love Plasma, its things like this that just scare me. I dunno.



When I returned my first A550, I asked the clerk if I could check for burn-in on the floor model. He gave me the remote, and I put it to all white screen, and there was noticeable burn in bands and splotches all over the panel. I checked the settings, and they were on "VIVID", i.e. TORCHLIGHT settings!


Most all big screen showrooms use these settings to make the picture pop out at you as much as possible so you will buy them. The CC clerk had also never heard of "break in periods," so it's pretty obvious how they get this way.


From my experience so far doing break in at suggested settings from this site, and using the downloadable break in disk for 250 hours, then turning settings up to CNet review post break-in settings... I have yet to see any additional burn in from what was already on the panel prior to my following proper break in procedure. Any IR I've seen is quite temporary and quickly fades.


You may want to check your POST break in settings. If you have returned the TV to "Vivid" or even "Standard" with high brightness and contrast, you may be pushing it and causing burn in. The CNet settings recommend sticking with "MOVIE" settings and moderate contrast/brightness levels for low-lit rooms. We just watched The Bucket List on Blu ray last night at these settings, and the PQ was phenomenal! So much clarity and brighter than any movie theater projected image I've ever seen.


Also, if any haven't noticed, each source INPUT must be set separately from the others. Setting levels once for your cable box does not affect your DVD/VCR or any other inputs. HDMI 1 levels only set HDMI 1 input. ALL INPUTS being used MUST be set separately. If you use the break-in disk, be sure to set your DVD input as well as your cable/satellite input, and all others. ~ CA


----------



## CragAntler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14653335
> 
> 
> Well I hate to say it but these are some of the primary reasons I shied away from the Sammys. In fact the only good arguments I could see in their favor was purported lower noise (which in fact hasn't been a problem on the Panny) and better settings controls. Other than that, I've not heard many good things about them where IR and Burn-in are concerned. I'm at several hundred hours now on my 85u with no IR and certainly no Burn-in.
> 
> 
> Perhaps the reported IR and Burn-in improvements of the Pannys and Pios haven't been taken seriously enough.
> 
> 
> There are plenty of gamers using Panny's by the way with no issues.



Well, after thinking it over HARD, and discussing with wifey, I decided to return my 2nd 58A550. Called CC night before to see if they had yet recvd any Panny 800U's yet. They had not. Next day, stopped in at Magnolia A/V, and they had the 850U's in stock, on sale for $100 less than BB had the 800's. So I went to CC, returned the Sammy, headed back to Magnolia and bought an 850U!


Hard to blame the A550, though, as I think it was more a matter of poor communication with customers re CRUCIAL break-in procedures, as well as suspected shenanigans on CC's part in swapping someone else's returned panel all boxed up and looking "new." But since the 2nd A550 actually ARRIVED with faint blue "banding" burned into the panel, I can no longer trust CC and/or Samsung to take proper care of me when their plasmas are this susceptible to burn-in. I do believe that proper following of this model's break-in procedures as described on this site will prevent the problem; and if you can somehow manage to get a "clean" panel delivered, you WILL love the PQ on this baby.


Anyway, I'm moving over to the Panny 850U thread for now. Thanks, all, for your help and input! ~ CA


----------



## SlingShotUK

Hi guys,


Firstly thanks for this thread! I'm in need of some serious advice regarding IR which may have become burn-in on my 9G Pioneer plasma (the European spec 5090).


I have basically been playing GTA 4 on my PS3 on the Pioneer for a number of months *without* using the orbiter.. Now in hindsight I know this was silly but everyone on the UK forums was saying the Pioneer's are bullet proof and the orbiter wasn't really needed.


Anyway, I've been playing fairly regularly for 2-3 hours a time with 5 hour sessions being the norm over a weekend. I had a 5.5 hour session on Friday night and when I checked the display afterwards I could see the radar of the game showing up on black backgrounds and very clear on white.


I immediately ran the washer pattern for an hour while I slept. In the morning the IR was still there..I then ran it for a further 3 hours and by that point it had almost gone. I then used the set for normal content and it appeared to clear it so I assumed it had gone.


Today I ran the break-in DVD for 5 hours just for good measure and couldn't see the radar at all..


However, I checked tonight in total darkness with a black background shown and I could see the radar image still there..










Ok, it can't be seen from normal viewing distance but I am concerned that this is now permanent and of course will keep coming back if I play the game.

Is there a chance this will clear if I keep using the break-in DVD all week? If it does clear will the set be back to how it was from the start? I.E It will be ok to play the game again using normal precautions?


Any advice would be very well received!


I've had the set for 2 1/2 months.


I've attached a picture I have taken showing the IR of the radar (this has been overexposed / enchanced to show the IR).


Thanks in advance.


----------



## oil99

Hey Guys,


I am the proud new owner of a 9G elite... can't wait! I have burned the break-in DVD & am wondering if I can just leave the TV on the default settings for the break-in period? I assume adjusting the levels as per the specs from the OP is designed to push the brightness & color levels higher during break-in but if I plan to watch std TV & movies during the break-in period I'd assume I would have to re-adjust everytime for best picture? I hope that makes sense. Cheers!


----------



## Vegeta

TV is being delivered soon, a Panasonic 37PX80.


For break-in, I am using a SD card with the images available at www.eaprogramming.com .


Should I set the slideshow time to 5 seconds so each image is shown for 5 seconds or a higher number like 10 or 30 seconds?


----------



## RYAXIN

After so much reading into this burn in period, and seeing that it is so important in preventing 'BURN IN', why doesn't the manufacturer burn in the TV for us? Why do we have to do it? Wouldn't it be so much easier to buy your TV knowing that you dont have to waste your time worrying about the first 200 or so crucial hours?


Your thoughts?


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/14690313
> 
> 
> After so much reading into this burn in period, and seeing that it is so important in preventing 'BURN IN', why doesn't the manufacturer burn in the TV for us? Why do we have to do it? Wouldn't it be so much easier to buy your TV knowing that you dont have to waste your time worrying about the first 200 or so crucial hours?
> 
> 
> Your thoughts?



Somebody, D-Nice maybe, swears up and down that Panasonic runs the TVs for 100 hours before they leave the factory. I don't know if that's true or not.


jeff


----------



## nowun

If plasmas are so prone to IR and burn in, WHY do television broadcasters insist on having their channel logo permanently displayed in a fixed possition? As a result of this, I now have disneys playhouse logo burnt into the bottom left corner of the screen. Can they be held liable for the damage? There should be world wide action taken to stop these logo's from being displayed.


----------



## fogey

Or against plasma TV set's manufacturers... 

I own a plasma set for a year now. It's good for movies, no questions here. So I use it mainly for what it's good for. For regular TV there are LCDs and CRTs. There are as many as five display technologies available nowadays, and none of them is perfect or universal, unfortunately.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowun* /forum/post/14719903
> 
> 
> If plasmas are so prone to IR and burn in, WHY do television broadcasters insist on having their channel logo permanently displayed in a fixed possition? As a result of this, I now have disneys playhouse logo burnt into the bottom left corner of the screen. Can they be held liable for the damage? There should be world wide action taken to stop these logo's from being displayed.



Because plasma TV's make up a VERY small portion of all the TV's sold and in use and are the only sets that suffer from this problem. Just a few percentage at that. No one is going to do such a large change and spend money on it just to satisfy a small portion of the population


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14720176
> 
> 
> Because plasma TV's make up a VERY small portion of all the TV's sold and in use and are the only sets that suffer from this problem. Just a few percentage at that. No one is going to do such a large change and spend money on it just to satisfy a small portion of the population



there is no need for "large change and spend money on it" to make the station bug translucent and not stay in one corner. There is also no need for "large change and spend money on it" to show the station bug just for several seconds here and there as opposed to have it 100% solid and 100% there all the time.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14725011
> 
> 
> there is no need for "large change and spend money on it" to make the station bug translucent and not stay in one corner. There is also no need for "large change and spend money on it" to show the station bug just for several seconds here and there as opposed to have it 100% solid and 100% there all the time.



Sure there is. The stations would have to re-design their logo and do this for every show that exists on their channel to make it transparent. That is a LARGE change. You are talking about a lot of shows and money to pay for a redesign If you think a large station like NBC would just take out Adobe Paint and whip something together then you are sadly mistaken.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14727923
> 
> 
> Sure there is. The stations would have to re-design their logo and do this for every show that exists on their channel to make it transparent. That is a LARGE change. You are talking about a lot of shows and money to pay for a redesign If you think a large station like NBC would just take out Adobe Paint and whip something together then you are sadly mistaken.



I have to disagree. Adding some transparency to already existing logos is an easy and quick job. In fact, I be willing to bet it could be done in much less than a day, bureaucracy notwithstanding.


Plasma aside, I'd be thrilled to see them do away with most of the onscreen garbage they put out now. USA and FOX are especially egregious, some of those corner ads are practically PIP. My favorite is when I get a 30 second Kyra Sedgwick ad during the Closer!


----------



## stockwiz

I created a plasma break in screensaver as I had problems with using the image files from the website in vista with image mounting and dvd playing programs.. they would all play the colors extremely fast.


I thought I would make them available for anyone who wants them. They don't work perfectly at least in vista, as vista will delete the screensaver file right after the program tries to install it, however right after installing it will pop up the screensaver window. If you use the "preview" function during that time, it should run properly until you stop it by clicking the mouse. If you want to run it in the future, just run the installer again. Also upon trying to copy the file itself into the system32 folder I noticed the resolution get messed up.. but hey, it works for me so if you wanna use em, go ahead.. if it doesn't, sorry I couldn't help.










15 and 30 second versions were created.

http://rapidshare.com/files/14802662...saver15sec.exe 

http://rapidshare.com/files/14802640...saver30sec.exe


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14727995
> 
> 
> I have to disagree. Adding some transparency to already existing logos is an easy and quick job. In fact, I be willing to bet it could be done in much less than a day, bureaucracy notwithstanding.
> 
> 
> Plasma aside, I'd be thrilled to see them do away with most of the onscreen garbage they put out now. USA and FOX are especially egregious, some of those corner ads are practically PIP. My favorite is when I get a 30 second Kyra Sedgwick ad during the Closer!



But some of the time, just adding transparency is not enough. By doing this it ruins the logo or makes it unreadable due to design, layout, etc. Some logos are more then just letters, they are overlaying images, etc. Not only does a station have to handle its station logo they have to do it for every show name too. Just saying, its not something they can just push a few buttons and it is done, and with how expensive the entertainment industry is, I bet this would cost them more then we think (approvals, test run, design costs, etc.)


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14727923
> 
> 
> Sure there is. The stations would have to re-design their logo and do this for every show that exists on their channel to make it transparent. That is a LARGE change. You are talking about a lot of shows and money to pay for a redesign If you think a large station like NBC would just take out Adobe Paint and whip something together then you are sadly mistaken.



Uhmmm, I used to work for a TV station. There is a slider so I can choose the transparency of the station bug... and that was way back when in 1992.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14732267
> 
> 
> Uhmmm, I used to work for a TV station. There is a slider so I can choose the transparency of the station bug... and that was way back when in 1992.



Does the slider let you immediately change the design of the logo? Does the slider let you get instant approval? I am sure everything you did 16 years ago is the exact same now at every major broadcaster.


----------



## plmn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14735210
> 
> 
> Does the slider let you immediately change the design of the logo? Does the slider let you get instant approval? I am sure everything you did 16 years ago is the exact same now at every major broadcaster.



Oh come on, do you really think graphics are that difficult these days? Somebody who used to do that has told you it is not a big deal yet you still persist. Why? What makes your opinion better qualified?


It's not rocket science. The only reason for loud graphics is to be noticed, and for some reason TV executives don't think they annoy the heck out of people. Has nothing to do with the difficulty of designing a different logo, which would take a professional all of about 30 minutes.


One of the worst national offenders, Music HD, partially figured that out when they made the name change to Palladia. They now use a transparent logo most of the time, although the big butterfly they use the rest of the time is worse than the old MHD one. If History Channel and TLC could figure it out as well, I can't think of any other blatently bad national stations. For bugs, anyway. Annoying advertisements and tickers that take up large portions of the screen, that's another matter.


----------



## jimbo4242

It is really annoying period to have to view all these logos and garbage when were trying to watch tv in the first place. We all know what stations we have on when were watching them, why do they have to plaster there logos all over the damn screen in the first place. Years and years ago broadcasters got by just fine without having to bombard us with there damn logos, now its becoming ridiculous, it's coming to a point now were the logos are starting to invade the actual viewing of tv programs/movies ect... Plus it does effect people that do own plasma screens regardless how well these screens handle ir/bi . They need to just get rid of these logos period. I bet they lose viewers because of these damn logos, I'm sure it doesn't help any to attract viewers either. Like I said we all know when were watching a certain channel we all know what channel it is right. This logo crap is getting worse and worse and something really needs to be done about it to be honest.


----------



## greenjp

The logos are annoying on multiple levels, seems to me the easiest solution would be for them to just move them around a bit. Every 5-10 minutes it could switch to the left side of the screen or something.


That said I've never had IR from a logo on my 50PX77U. I watch shows on Fox, games on ESPN, shows with tickers and whatnot, etc. Now, I don't generally watch any given channel for more than 6 hours at a time (1 pm and 4 pm football games), nor do I have a DVR, which would allow me to skip the logo-less commercials that I believe go a long way towards preventing logo IR.


jeff


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plmn* /forum/post/14735493
> 
> 
> Oh come on, do you really think graphics are that difficult these days? Somebody who used to do that has told you it is not a big deal yet you still persist. Why? What makes your opinion better qualified?
> 
> 
> It's not rocket science. The only reason for loud graphics is to be noticed, and for some reason TV executives don't think they annoy the heck out of people. Has nothing to do with the difficulty of designing a different logo, which would take a professional all of about 30 minutes.
> 
> 
> One of the worst national offenders, Music HD, partially figured that out when they made the name change to Palladia. They now use a transparent logo most of the time, although the big butterfly they use the rest of the time is worse than the old MHD one. If History Channel and TLC could figure it out as well, I can't think of any other blatently bad national stations. For bugs, anyway. Annoying advertisements and tickers that take up large portions of the screen, that's another matter.



I hate doing this, I rarely ever do the, my friend works somewhere, etc. But since you guys are relentless I have to say, I know someone who works at NBC. I called him and asked is he could find the answer to this. He got back to me and basically said he agreed with me. He found that it is easy to design a graphic but what a lot of people fail to realize is just because Joe Smith designed something does not mean they can then implement it. It takes multiple levels of approval. In addition, it takes testing to make sure the new design works on multiple backgrounds, colors, etc. He agreed with you guys, it is really easy to change transparency, design one, etc. REALLY easy. But the approval process is through the roof. And in fact it is VERY expensive (by our standards) because you have to follow so many procedures, rules, testing, approvals, etc. that when everything is factored in, including soft costs, it is expensive to make a change like this and not taken lightly by executives.


----------



## plmn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14738232
> 
> 
> I hate doing this, I rarely ever do the, my friend works somewhere, etc. But since you guys are relentless I have to say, I know someone who works at NBC. I called him and asked is he could find the answer to this. He got back to me and basically said he agreed with me. He found that it is easy to design a graphic but what a lot of people fail to realize is just because Joe Smith designed something does not mean they can then implement it. It takes multiple levels of approval. In addition, it takes testing to make sure the new design works on multiple backgrounds, colors, etc. He agreed with you guys, it is really easy to change transparency, design one, etc. REALLY easy. But the approval process is through the roof. And in fact it is VERY expensive (by our standards) because you have to follow so many procedures, rules, testing, approvals, etc. that when everything is factored in, including soft costs, it is expensive to make a change like this and not taken lightly by executives.




We're not the only relentless ones here you know.










Thank you. I don't think anybody claimed the approval process was simple, and I do personally know how expensive and annoying red tape can be. However, they must make decisions on a nearly daily basis about various graphics anyway. So I don't quite buy the argument that it is cost prohibitive.


It's interesting that you bring up NBC. I'm not sure about this, but didn't they used to have a transparent peacock logo? I am sure the Olympic logo was new, and I'm pretty sure the regular peacock has recently changed. So obviously they have had opportunities to "do the right thing" and did not.


Even if I did not own a plasma, I would feel the same way. Gaudy logos are annoying and distracting.


----------



## David Susilo

also why do you need to change the graphic? Changing the opacity is mutually exclusive to changing the graphics.


----------



## astro811

I just got Panny's PX80 and when I started running the breakin DVD, I encountered some issues.


At first, everything seems to be fine, each picture of solid colors in the DVD looks consistent with all pixels displaying the same color.


However, after about 1 hour of playing the DVD, I started to notice that in the solid RED picture, I could see a lot of green dots mixed in between; they form kinda h-lines; this is more apparent in red pictures with higher brightness.


At the same time, I noticed large amount of green noise appearing in dark scenes when showing a movie; jumping around


Guys, being a newbie to plasma, is this normal at all? BTW, I set the contrast and brightness to mid-low levels.


Lots of thanks.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plmn* /forum/post/14739102
> 
> 
> We're not the only relentless ones here you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I don't think anybody claimed the approval process was simple, and I do personally know how expensive and annoying red tape can be. However, they must make decisions on a nearly daily basis about various graphics anyway. So I don't quite buy the argument that it is cost prohibitive.
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you bring up NBC. I'm not sure about this, but didn't they used to have a transparent peacock logo? I am sure the Olympic logo was new, and I'm pretty sure the regular peacock has recently changed. So obviously they have had opportunities to "do the right thing" and did not.
> 
> 
> Even if I did not own a plasma, I would feel the same way. Gaudy logos are annoying and distracting.



You know, it was funny too. My friend said when he was talking to the tech that everyone always brings up the Animal Planet logo when they discuss these things. Its some kind of inside joke or something, not sure the details but he kept referencing it. I got the impression they didn't like that one or something.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *astro811* /forum/post/14742079
> 
> 
> I just got Panny's PX80 and when I started running the breakin DVD, I encountered some issues.
> 
> 
> At first, everything seems to be fine, each picture of solid colors in the DVD looks consistent with all pixels displaying the same color.
> 
> 
> However, after about 1 hour of playing the DVD, I started to notice that in the solid RED picture, I could see a lot of green dots mixed in between; they form kinda h-lines; this is more apparent in red pictures with higher brightness.
> 
> 
> At the same time, I noticed large amount of green noise appearing in dark scenes when showing a movie; jumping around
> 
> 
> Guys, being a newbie to plasma, is this normal at all? BTW, I set the contrast and brightness to mid-low levels.
> 
> 
> Lots of thanks.



Wow, definitely not normal. Not sure what causes it or why but that is not normal. If settings do not change it, you might have to get it checked out. they aren't stuck pixels right (Pixels that are always the same color no matter what is on the screen)?


----------



## plmn

I noticed last night NBC is still using the transparent peacock. Guess I haven't been watching enough network TV lately and got confused. Must have just been a special Olympic thing.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plmn* /forum/post/14742954
> 
> 
> I noticed last night NBC is still using the transparent peacock. Guess I haven't been watching enough network TV lately and got confused. Must have just been a special Olympic thing.



I noticed last night for the first time (not sure why) that CBS's logo was very transparent. I guess I don't watch enough CBS to notice.


----------



## tmrami

I just got a new samsung plasma and my question is, for the break in period, I have the contrast set to 47. After the break in period, can I turn it and the brightness back up or does it have to stay there? Otherwise what is the point?!


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tmrami* /forum/post/14748697
> 
> 
> I just got a new samsung plasma and my question is, for the break in period, I have the contrast set to 47. After the break in period, can I turn it and the brightness back up or does it have to stay there? Otherwise what is the point?!



I think you just answered your own question.


----------



## chwisch87

Loving my Panasonic ... gaming with no issues but i make sure it doesn't have black bars for more than 15 mins at a time.


As for gaming ... if you are playing PS3 and Xbox 360 games, most games these days have soo many cut scenes that you hardly have to worry about the HUD's anymore.


----------



## tempnexus

Will running the Burn-In images in VIVID from an SD card in my Panasonic 42PZ85U help accelerate the burn-in time?

Also, how should I tweak the Picture settings to accelerate the burn-in? (i.e. Picture, sharpness, brightness etc).


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tempnexus* /forum/post/14751249
> 
> 
> Will running the Burn-In images in VIVID from an SD card in my Panasonic 42PZ85U help accelerate the burn-in time?
> 
> Also, how should I tweak the Picture settings to accelerate the burn-in? (i.e. Picture, sharpness, brightness etc).



Look at the Panny Burn-in FAQ in my sig.


Don't run it in Vivid.


----------



## Vegeta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tempnexus* /forum/post/14751249
> 
> 
> Will running the Burn-In images in VIVID from an SD card in my Panasonic 42PZ85U help accelerate the burn-in time?
> 
> Also, how should I tweak the Picture settings to accelerate the burn-in? (i.e. Picture, sharpness, brightness etc).



You can accelerate the break-in time by setting contrast to 70% of full but don't use Vivid mode.


----------



## tennberg

Finally just unboxed a Panny TH-46PZ850U that I bought from Best Buy the other week, got it on the stand, and made sure it powered on before my friend and I got some drinks.


After we came back, I turned it back on, adjusted the settings (Studio ref mode, low picture, low brightness, etc.), popped in an SD card with the burn-in images from another thread, and have had it running for about 15 mins so far.


The first thing I noticed (maybe because I was sitting about 2 feet from the TV) was an almost "shimmering" effect to the screen. I assume this goes away after the burn-in and general use.


EDIT: This is my first foray into flat-panels, as the set I upgraded from was a Sony KD-34XBR960.


----------



## joms

Is it ok to run the break-in DVD i downloaded from eaprogramming for 24hrs straight for the next 4 days to get to 100hrs right away? Or do i need to turn off my TV for a couple of hours each day to make it rest? My plasma is a Panasonic 50PV80


----------



## David Susilo

tennberg,

the term is "break in" and not "burn in".

we use "break in" images to during the "break in" period to prevent "burn in".


joms,

yes it's okay to do it for 100 hours continuously. I've done a several shows where the plasmas are turned on for the entire week with no problem. Most big box stores also don't switch off their displays.


----------



## Vegeta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennberg* /forum/post/14753742
> 
> 
> The first thing I noticed (maybe because I was sitting about 2 feet from the TV) was an almost "shimmering" effect to the screen. I assume this goes away after the burn-in and general use.



This is normal for Plasma's and is called "dithering". It looks like lots of dots on the screen moving about. Its how the TV achieves more shades of colours but this dithering is mostly apparent on large solid colours.


----------



## tennberg

Thank you for the clarification, David.


One other question: When the plasma was on a solid red image, I noticed what looked like a dead "pixel" - it was completely black. I went to check something online, then came back and it was gone, and has not reappeared.


Should I be concerned, or was this basically a "pixel" that needed to wake up?


----------



## David Susilo

it seems like you've experienced "stuck pixel" and somehow it got "shocked" and become active once again.


----------



## tennberg

So, I spoke too soon. The stuck pixel has returned.


My plasma has been running through the burn-in images off an SD card for about 20 hours straight now. Should I just keep going through the burn-in and see if the pixel stays that way through 50, 60, 70 hours? Or should I see about returning the set right now?


----------



## David Susilo

you should be able to download another DVD (freeware) with flashing colours that may zap the stuck pixel alive. If the pixel is dead, then there is nothing can be done about it.


IMO, you might as well return your TV because if it's been unstuck and now it's back stuck, chances are it'll keep coming back.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennberg* /forum/post/14757853
> 
> 
> So, I spoke too soon. The stuck pixel has returned.
> 
> 
> My plasma has been running through the burn-in images off an SD card for about 20 hours straight now. Should I just keep going through the burn-in and see if the pixel stays that way through 50, 60, 70 hours? Or should I see about returning the set right now?



You should check with who you purchased the TV from. Most retailers will not take back the set for 1 dead pixel. There usually has to be a lot of them. I have heard of some retailers taking them back for just one, but anymore it seems they do not.


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennberg* /forum/post/14757853
> 
> 
> So, I spoke too soon. The stuck pixel has returned.
> 
> 
> My plasma has been running through the burn-in images off an SD card for about 20 hours straight now. Should I just keep going through the burn-in and see if the pixel stays that way through 50, 60, 70 hours? Or should I see about returning the set right now?



I saw you purchased this from Best Buy. You can return this under the no-hassle 30 policy. Once you get past the 30 day policy dead pixel replacement will be per the manufacturers rules. Often they require that there be several dead/stuck pixels before they will consider refurbing the set. They also take the position of the pixel into account. If it's right in the middle of the screen you'd have a better chance at getting a refurb than if it is in the corner of the screen.


I have a Samsung plasma that arrived with a stuck pixel in the corner of the set. Since it's in the corner and it is only visible against some colors, I decided to live with it since their weren't any other problems with the set.


----------



## proudx

I ran a utility called jscreenfixup that fixes stuck pixels on my new samsung plasma. It came with a stuck pixel so I figured i'd give this program a shot, to my surprise it fixed the stuck pixels and they have never returned to the set.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *proudx* /forum/post/14761353
> 
> 
> I ran a utility called jscreenfixup that fixes stuck pixels on my new samsung plasma. It came with a stuck pixel so I figured i'd give this program a shot, to my surprise it fixed the stuck pixels and they have never returned to the set.



Very interesting!


----------



## David Susilo

that's the program I'm referring to!


----------



## tennberg

Found it. It's called JScreenFix. They have a downloadable DVD image that I am going to try this evening. I'll report back later.


----------



## chevy01xtreme

i am getting a panasonic TH-58PZ800U sometime this week. i talked to panasonic and they "recommend changing the picture mode fom Vivid to standard for the first 100 days or more. they said it will lower the intensity of the tv, and it does not have to work as hard,and the screen will get a bit darker"


where can i get the break in cd?


and anyone else recommend anything else i can do for break in.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chevy01xtreme* /forum/post/14766347
> 
> 
> i am getting a panasonic TH-58PZ800U sometime this week. i talked to panasonic and they "recommend changing the picture mode fom Vivid to standard for the first 100 days or more. they said it will lower the intensity of the tv, and it does not have to work as hard,and the screen will get a bit darker"
> 
> 
> where can i get the break in cd?
> 
> 
> and anyone else recommend anything else i can do for break in.



Here is the link for the Break-In CD/DVD: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089 


It works very well.










The only other thing you can do is lower you're Cell light, Brightness and Contrast to keep the overall picture darker. Display fullscreen for the first 200hrs and avoid static images. A little care will yield a long lasting set.


Steve


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chevy01xtreme* /forum/post/14766347
> 
> 
> i am getting a panasonic TH-58PZ800U sometime this week. i talked to panasonic and they "recommend changing the picture mode fom Vivid to standard for the first 100 days or more. they said it will lower the intensity of the tv, and it does not have to work as hard,and the screen will get a bit darker"
> 
> 
> where can i get the break in cd?
> 
> 
> and anyone else recommend anything else i can do for break in.



Yeah, look at the Panny Break-in FAQ


----------



## chevy01xtreme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14769526
> 
> 
> Yeah, look at the Panny Break-in FAQ



in ur sig.. thats good for all models?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chevy01xtreme* /forum/post/14773312
> 
> 
> in ur sig.. thats good for all models?



Yes and yes. The only real difference is that 07' models had zero as the zero point and this years are 50 for the zero point.


----------



## stormsweeper

I haven't been around in ages, but thought I'd follow up on my experiences with burn-in (or lack thereof).

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...65#post3830465 


I'm still using the same display (a Panasonic TH37PWD5UZ) in the same way, and the wear is essentially the same as I described in that four year old post. It's only noticeable to me because I know what to look for, and when to look for it. My family and friends don't notice it unless I pause a _very_ bright screen (say the opening panoramas of the shire in _Fellowship of the Rings_ ) and point out how the edges of the screen are _slightly_ less bright than the center square.


I've never done any sort of "break-in" other than turning the brightness settings down from "torch mode" to something appropriate for my living room. I watch things in OAR (albeit with grey side bars).


It's been a wonderful display for these past five and a half years, and I don't regret anything about it. And back then, these things cost three times what they do now.


Hopefully this tale will be a comfort to someone.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stormsweeper* /forum/post/14785785
> 
> 
> I haven't been around in ages, but thought I'd follow up on my experiences with burn-in (or lack thereof).
> 
> http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...65#post3830465
> 
> 
> I'm still using the same display (a Panasonic TH37PWD5UZ) in the same way, and the wear is essentially the same as I described in that four year old post. It's only noticeable to me because I know what to look for, and when to look for it. My family and friends don't notice it unless I pause a _very_ bright screen (say the opening panoramas of the shire in _Fellowship of the Rings_ ) and point out how the edges of the screen are _slightly_ less bright than the center square.
> 
> 
> I've never done any sort of "break-in" other than turning the brightness settings down from "torch mode" to something appropriate for my living room. I watch things in OAR (albeit with grey side bars).
> 
> 
> It's been a wonderful display for these past five and a half years, and I don't regret anything about it. And back then, these things cost three times what they do now.
> 
> 
> Hopefully this tale will be a comfort to someone.



Thanks for chiming in, it's appreciated and gives some perspective.


----------



## tennberg

So, I've completed roughly 150 hours of break-in on my Panny TH-46PZ850U using the break-in images on an SD card. What I did notice though is that whenever I was watching regular TV, the picture setting was on "Standard" rather than "Cinema Ref", which is what the setting was for the SD card. I figure as long as the settings were low and it was not on "Vivid", I'm fine.


So, now does it make sense to keep doing this for the next 850 hours until I reach 1000 hours, as I've read elsewhere? Or is it okay to stop breaking-in and start fully enjoying it? Or should I use the SD card occasionally for a bit?


Thanks.


----------



## greenjp

God no, please don't keep doing the break in routine for another 850 hours. Plug in some proper settings and enjoy.


jeff


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennberg* /forum/post/14812309
> 
> 
> So, now does it make sense to keep doing this for the next 850 hours until I reach 1000 hours, as I've read elsewhere? Or is it okay to stop breaking-in and start fully enjoying it? Or should I use the SD card occasionally for a bit?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



You're kidding right? 850-1000 hours is like 1/100th lifespane of a plasma


----------



## tennberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/14812896
> 
> 
> You're kidding right? 850-1000 hours is like 1/100th lifespane of a plasma



I didn't mean running it non-stop for another 850 hours. I've just read some material elsewhere where they suggested doing *some* break-in over the next 850 hours but not non-stop as it was during the first 150 hours.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tennberg* /forum/post/14813270
> 
> 
> I didn't mean running it non-stop for another 850 hours. I've just read some material elsewhere where they suggested doing *some* break-in over the next 850 hours but not non-stop as it was during the first 150 hours.



You're right, there's an old Panasonic document that discusses precautions/limitations through 1,000 hours. I believe those recommendations are out of date and even when they were new probably represented an overabundance of caution.


FWIW, I broke in my 50PX77U by switching out of Vivid mode to Normal and setting contrast below 50% for the first week. Also avoided non-full screen content but didn't use any break in DVD or pattern. After a week I plugged in the CNet settings, tweaked them, and haven't looked back. Video games, movies, sports, whatever. Zero IR, no burn in, fabulous picture.


jeff


----------



## GarySE

Samsung PN50A450.... is there a menu option to display hours of use?


Thanks for all your help!!!!


----------



## razorcanes

guys,


I'm looking at purchasing two Panasonic TH-50PX80U TVs soon.


regarding the burn-in DVD - is it advisable/safe to just run the burn-in software 24/7 for roughly a week, week and a half? is it OK to leave these TVs on for that long w/no break? any other concerns that I should keep in mind during the burn-in phase?


I really appreciate the help you gurus provide us plebes. I'm very excited to get rolling w/this set, but because I'll easily watch 9 hrs. of NFL action every Sunday, I think it's extremely important to cover any bases.


lastly, regarding the use of the screen wipe/scroll feature - let's say I'm watching the games on Sunday. would it be smart to run the screen wipe during the commercial breaks two or three times per game? how long do the wipes take to finish?


thank you.


----------



## Buckeye911

^ You really don't need a burn-in disc. I have a 42px60u that I bought new two and a half years ago, back when they were going for $2100. All I did is dial back the brightness and contrast to about 50% and avoided most 4:3 images for the first 100 hours. My generation of Panasonic does not have the screen wipe function but I can't say there has ever been an occasion when I would have used it if it was available. Just enjoy your TV.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *razorcanes* /forum/post/14822006
> 
> 
> guys,
> 
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing two Panasonic TH-50PX80U TVs soon.
> 
> 
> regarding the burn-in DVD - is it advisable/safe to just run the burn-in software 24/7 for roughly a week, week and a half? is it OK to leave these TVs on for that long w/no break? any other concerns that I should keep in mind during the burn-in phase?
> 
> 
> I really appreciate the help you gurus provide us plebes. I'm very excited to get rolling w/this set, but because I'll easily watch 9 hrs. of NFL action every Sunday, I think it's extremely important to cover any bases.
> 
> 
> lastly, regarding the use of the screen wipe/scroll feature - let's say I'm watching the games on Sunday. would it be smart to run the screen wipe during the commercial breaks two or three times per game? how long do the wipes take to finish?
> 
> 
> thank you.



I never broke in my Plasma with the DVD, I just watched a lot of full HD content (i.e. discovery, prime time shows, etc.) until I got to 150 hours, then I used the set how I liked.


Running the screen wipe is for a last resort where you have some damage/problems. I wouldn't run it twice after every game, there is no need, that sounds extreme. Just watch something else in HD (another game with the ticker on the bottom instead of the top, or a show). Just enjoy your TV.


----------



## David Susilo

I find it very amusing that even after 30 pages, so many people can't tell the difference between the term burn-in vs the term break-in.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *razorcanes* /forum/post/14822006
> 
> 
> guys,
> 
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing two Panasonic TH-50PX80U TVs soon.
> 
> 
> regarding the burn-in DVD - is it advisable/safe to just run the burn-in software 24/7 for roughly a week, week and a half? is it OK to leave these TVs on for that long w/no break? any other concerns that I should keep in mind during the burn-in phase?
> 
> 
> I really appreciate the help you gurus provide us plebes. I'm very excited to get rolling w/this set, but because I'll easily watch 9 hrs. of NFL action every Sunday, I think it's extremely important to cover any bases.
> 
> 
> lastly, regarding the use of the screen wipe/scroll feature - let's say I'm watching the games on Sunday. would it be smart to run the screen wipe during the commercial breaks two or three times per game? how long do the wipes take to finish?
> 
> 
> thank you.



Have a look at the Break-in FAQ.


----------



## fatbottom

Just use the displays normally, watch material with no logos, and watch full screen video. for 4:3 stretch to full screen. If you do watch a 2:35 movie, then for the next couple of hours watch full screen material. Always set contrast quite low, and better to watch in pitch black room as you'll set contrast much lower.


----------



## razorcanes

awesome - thanks guys!











@ David Susilo - I R TEH N00B. MAI BAD!


----------



## Sythe X10

Hey guys i have a simple question. I played GTA for a long time and i do have a retained image ( I know it will go away) but i'm wondering how long would it take for pretty bad IR to go away? Also can someone picture a scenario? This is the scenario, playing call of duty 4 for 5 hours straight, The HUD consists of white static ammo meter and gun picture. each game lasts about 15 - 20 minutes with pauses of 1 or 2 minutes between each game. How bad would the IR be and how long would it take to fade. This is at 200 hours of use on the panel, model TH42PX80U.


Thanks. I would rather post here instead of taking up a thead space =)


----------



## law1777

guys.. i have a question here hope u guys can help. even if i pause my movie in brighter scene or pause my game but i put my plasma to standby mode, lets say im out awhile for a longer period of time, will i get burn-in on my plasma after i switch it back on?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *law1777* /forum/post/14838820
> 
> 
> guys.. i have a question here hope u guys can help. even if i pause my movie in brighter scene or pause my game but i put my plasma to standby mode, lets say im out awhile for a longer period of time, will i get burn-in on my plasma after i switch it back on?



No.


----------



## Sythe X10

Can someone please answer my post? How long would bad IR last?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sythe X10* /forum/post/14842247
> 
> 
> Can someone please answer my post? How long would bad IR last?



There is no possible answer to that question, it depends on a number of variables. And even if it does clear it could take any number of hours. Or it may never go.


----------



## Sythe X10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/14842333
> 
> 
> There is no possible answer to that question, it depends on a number of variables. And even if it does clear it could take any number of hours. Or it may never go.



I'm under the impression Image retention will go away, My post gives a scenario so if someone can give some kinda guess i would greatly appreciate it. I just want a general idea of a worst case scenario.


----------



## David Susilo

nobody can tell. I've seen IR that lasts only minutes to hours.


----------



## Sythe X10

Well last night i played GTA4 for 3 hours straight, same image on screen in the lower left. I cannot see it over regular viewing but if i look hard and close on an all black screen i can see it.


Also is there a way to tell the differance from IR or burn in?


----------



## David Susilo

1. did you set the orbiter to on position at any given time?

2. how did you set up your TV? Did you use game mode or vivid?

3. what brand of TV are you using?

4. have you tried running video pattern/white wash for a couple of hours?


If the IR stays foreverm then it's called burn-in.


----------



## Sythe X10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14843115
> 
> 
> 1. did you set the orbiter to on position at any given time?
> 
> 2. how did you set up your TV? Did you use game mode or vivid?
> 
> 3. what brand of TV are you using?
> 
> 4. have you tried running video pattern/white wash for a couple of hours?
> 
> 
> If the IR stays foreverm then it's called burn-in.



Always on.


For gaming, Game mode ~50's picture/brightness. For regular tv cinema.


Panasonic 42PX80u


NO, but watching regular tv occasially checking on black screen it's fading. barley even noticeable.


----------



## David Susilo

Panasonic usually don't develop long lasting IR, try the white wash and see whether after a cycle or two the IR still there.


----------



## Sythe X10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14844215
> 
> 
> Panasonic usually don't develop long lasting IR, try the white wash and see whether after a cycle or two the IR still there.



Actualy it's completely gone. Watching a days worth of full screen content/playing hud-less games did the trick. Now i'm very happy because i know i can have a static image like that on screen for 3 hours straight ( that was a one time deal)


So yeah it's completely gone. I don't see it at all.


----------



## David Susilo

cool!


----------



## Buckeyefan

Lots of repeat questions here. I highly recommend 250 hours of break in on a new plasma. It may seem long, but those first 250 hours are when those pixels burn their brightest. That's the hardening time. Once you sweat through that break in time, you'll have little to worry about after the fact.


----------



## meander

Great thread, just got a new Panny 46pz850u and read through the entire thing (at least Part II). I think I am doing all the right things so far, erring on the side of caution, but I had a couple of questions:


1. I have seen several posts recommending setting picture/brightness at or around 0 out of the box, others have indicated 50ish, and still others saying that that means the same thing, and that 50 on the Panny is "neutral" or the equivalent of a 0 setting. A 0 setting is pretty damn dark, is that really recommended or will 45ish suffice?


2. Is the best way to check for IR simply to try to find an all black or all white screen for a few seconds. I have been watching football/baseball playoffs and am worried about the score indicators.


Your responses are much appreciated. I realize that many questions re: IR and burn-in do not have definitive answers and that MMV but any insight you might have would be great.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *meander* /forum/post/14850105
> 
> 
> Great thread, just got a new Panny 46pz850u and read through the entire thing (at least Part II). I think I am doing all the right things so far, erring on the side of caution, but I had a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> 1. I have seen several posts recommending setting picture/brightness at or around 0 out of the box, others have indicated 50ish, and still others saying that that means the same thing, and that 50 on the Panny is "neutral" or the equivalent of a 0 setting. A 0 setting is pretty damn dark, is that really recommended or will 45ish suffice?
> 
> 
> 2. Is the best way to check for IR simply to try to find an all black or all white screen for a few seconds. I have been watching football/baseball playoffs and am worried about the score indicators.
> 
> 
> Your responses are much appreciated. I realize that many questions re: IR and burn-in do not have definitive answers and that MMV but any insight you might have would be great.



Read over the Break-In FAQ and then if you still have questions come back.


----------



## meander




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14850247
> 
> 
> Read over the Break-In FAQ and then if you still have questions come back.



Thanks Fr. John, I did read that FAQ, before reading this thread actually, and originally set my picture/brightness controls based in part on that - at around 45. But it was in this thread that I first read that these controls should be closer to zero, hence my first question. I didn't see an answer to my second question there or anywhere here on this thread, but apologize if I missed it.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *meander* /forum/post/14850509
> 
> 
> Thanks Fr. John, I did read that FAQ, before reading this thread actually, and originally set my picture/brightness controls based in part on that - at around 45. But it was in this thread that I first read that these controls should be closer to zero, hence my first question. I didn't see an answer to my second question there or anywhere here on this thread, but apologize if I missed it.



No apology necessay.


As for the 50 vs 0 thing, 0 is last years models, 50 is this years 0.


As for the second question, yes you have it right. I wouldn't give it a second thought though unless you're watching something static for several hours. Even then, it's most likely only going to cause temporary IR.


----------



## Finalheaven




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeyefan* /forum/post/14846054
> 
> 
> Lots of repeat questions here. I highly recommend 250 hours of break in on a new plasma. It may seem long, but those first 250 hours are when those pixels burn their brightest. That's the hardening time. Once you sweat through that break in time, you'll have little to worry about after the fact.



I did that for my first 150-200 hours, and since then focus mainly on full screen content; In short, I tried to treat my screen pretty well.


Last night I passed out while watching Cast Away (I love the movie, just seen it too many times) and woke up in the morning to the DVD menu. I have no idea how long the DVD Menu was up there for, but I've been running scrolling black bars since and can see the white letters of the Menu have left their marks.


My question is: Is running scrolling Black bars better or worse than watching full screen content for removing IR?


----------



## shaselai

I have a couple of questions...


For the break-in DVD... it says 100-200 hours on the site... now do I just not touch the TV at all and have it turned on for 100-200 hours straight with the dvd player on for 100-200 hours? Can i watch a show or something in between or I have to leave it on for 100-200 hours? Also, how low should I set the contrast to while running the break in dvd?


is break in really necessary for newer models like 800U? Can i just "break in" by just using the tv normally for 200 hours?


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaselai* /forum/post/14856498
> 
> 
> I have a couple of questions...



My post from one month ago, page 27:


"I've posted this same info several times, but it bears repeating given what's on this page of the thread.


I have a Panasonic 50PX77U, got it in January. When I got the set, it was set in Vivid mode with the contrast cranked all the way up. I switched it to Normal/Standard mode, cut the contrast to 50%, and started using it. A mix of Xbox 360 (mainly Call of Duty 4 and Mass Effect at the time), DirecTV HD, and movies. I let the set run overnight and during my work day a few times on HD Theater. After about a week I put the settings up to those from the CNET review and tweaked to my liking.


No break in DVD, no avoiding static images or games or letter box bars. The only IR I have ever seen on this set was after the first letterboxed movie I watched. The letter box bars were very slightly noticeable when the screen flashed back to the bright white Xbox loading screen when I stopped the movie. They returned to the same brightness as the rest of the screen in under 10 seconds. That no longer occurs.


I've been using the set as described above for the last 8 months and never see any IR and certainly no burn in. It just doesn't happen. Watched football all day last Sunday and not a hint of it.


Aside from the first week of having the contrast low and running some extra HD Theater, I don't take any major precautions. I do have the TV and my DirecTV box set up for gray bars on 4:3 shows, and I will use a stretch mode on the occasions that one of the HD channels is showing a 4:3 show."


Run the break in DVD in your spare time if you like, but please go ahead and enjoy the TV.


jeff


----------



## shaselai




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/14857777
> 
> 
> My post from one month ago, page 27:
> 
> 
> "I've posted this same info several times, but it bears repeating given what's on this page of the thread.
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic 50PX77U, got it in January. When I got the set, it was set in Vivid mode with the contrast cranked all the way up. I switched it to Normal/Standard mode, cut the contrast to 50%, and started using it. A mix of Xbox 360 (mainly Call of Duty 4 and Mass Effect at the time), DirecTV HD, and movies. I let the set run overnight and during my work day a few times on HD Theater. After about a week I put the settings up to those from the CNET review and tweaked to my liking.
> 
> 
> No break in DVD, no avoiding static images or games or letter box bars. The only IR I have ever seen on this set was after the first letterboxed movie I watched. The letter box bars were very slightly noticeable when the screen flashed back to the bright white Xbox loading screen when I stopped the movie. They returned to the same brightness as the rest of the screen in under 10 seconds. That no longer occurs.
> 
> 
> I've been using the set as described above for the last 8 months and never see any IR and certainly no burn in. It just doesn't happen. Watched football all day last Sunday and not a hint of it.
> 
> 
> Aside from the first week of having the contrast low and running some extra HD Theater, I don't take any major precautions. I do have the TV and my DirecTV box set up for gray bars on 4:3 shows, and I will use a stretch mode on the occasions that one of the HD channels is showing a 4:3 show."
> 
> 
> Run the break in DVD in your spare time if you like, but please go ahead and enjoy the TV.
> 
> 
> jeff



So let me get it straight... you basically used it out of the box with reduced contrast and on "off time" you ran "break in" methods like for you HD theater etc.? You recall how long it was for a week in hours>?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaselai* /forum/post/14858569
> 
> 
> So let me get it straight... you basically used it out of the box with reduced contrast and on "off time" you ran "break in" methods like for you HD theater etc.? You recall how long it was for a week in hours>?



This is exactly what I did to break in my 42px60u two and a half years ago. I reduced contrast and stretched content to fill the screen for the first 100 hours, about a month for me. After that period of time I took no precautions whatsoever. I have never had a problem with stubborn IR. I do get IR but it generally disappears in a matter of seconds.


----------



## shaselai

ic.. maybe i am overthinking about this problem... i hear there's that "wiper" technology if burn does occur.. do you guys run that every once a while or only if the IR doesnt go off for a bit?


----------



## Sythe X10

Don't even bother to use the wiper, waste of time unless the IR is horrible horrible oh mah geh hit me with a bat horrible. I got some pretty bad IR from GTA4 and it's impossible to see over regular content, even when your trying to look for it. IR will go away with just regular viewing. Don't even worry about ir just watch the set. I found myself paranoid as hell ( go check the px80 owners thread you'll see) but i've played gta4 for more than 3 hours straight with the map and that wen't away. So don't be paranoid or overthink it. just enjoy yourself.


Edit, i broke in my px80u with 100-150 hours of mostly starz/hbo/showtime/max and mainly HD theatre. Just display full screen content and your fine. On an all black screen i have perfect screen uformity using the method stated above.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaselai* /forum/post/14858569
> 
> 
> So let me get it straight... you basically used it out of the box with reduced contrast and on "off time" you ran "break in" methods like for you HD theater etc.? You recall how long it was for a week in hours>?



Exactly. I do not know how many hours I put on the set in the first week, didn't keep track. Probably between 50-75.


My set doesn't have any "wiper" feature. Even if it did I've never had a reason to use it.


jeff


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaselai* /forum/post/14858569
> 
> 
> So let me get it straight... you basically used it out of the box with reduced contrast and on "off time" you ran "break in" methods like for you HD theater etc.? You recall how long it was for a week in hours>?



You could also just use the break-in images disc/SD card, run it 24/day and hit your 100 in 4 days.


----------



## WilliamR

Thanks to Fr. John, first post updated with a good link to some break in information in the Panny thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14472276


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/14863213
> 
> 
> Thanks to Fr. John, first post updated with a good link to some break in information in the Panny thread.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14472276



Thanks for the update William.


----------



## shaselai

ok this is prob a stupid question but anyway...

If i use the break-in DVD... can i display it on the Tv through the computer? As in the computer plays the dvd and I "full screen" it and show it on the tv. It seems to be ok but i want to make sure...


----------



## Sythe X10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaselai* /forum/post/14881028
> 
> 
> ok this is prob a stupid question but anyway...
> 
> If i use the break-in DVD... can i display it on the Tv through the computer? As in the computer plays the dvd and I "full screen" it and show it on the tv. It seems to be ok but i want to make sure...



Yeah make sure the tv is really getting full screen and the computer is displaying the solid color. Inspect the border of your screen to make sure it's full screen. ( note - before you ask the green vertical line on the right of the set 1 pixel wide is completely normal) That's assuming you have that.. and i'm under the impression that every plasma does.


----------



## Aidan.

hi all










first post here - i'm seriously contemplating purchasing a recently released lg plasma (the 32pg6000), and have a few general plasma questions. ok, so, i know about the run-in process - set the brightness and contrast, to fifty, or below, for the first two hundred hours, to allow the phosphors to settle, and watch stuffwith as little static images as possible. so, right after the break-in period, i intend to hook up my 360, via hdmi. now, here is where my questions come in (remember, this is after the break-in period, of two hundred hours):
generally, how long can i pay a game, with huds on for, at a time? i've read you should game for x amount of hours, then switch over to a tv channel, with no static logos, but how long should i switch over to a tv channel for, and, how often?

how long is it advisable to watch a dvd with a static logo/tv broadcast, per session, with static logo, before switching to a channel with no logo, for x amount of minutes?


i think that just about covers everything - thanks for any help you guys can give


----------



## shidarin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aidan.* /forum/post/14884189
> 
> 
> hi all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> first post here - i'm seriously contemplating purchasing a recently released lg plasma (the 32pg6000), and have a few general plasma questions. ok, so, i know about the run-in process - set the brightness and contrast, to fifty, or below, for the first two hundred hours, to allow the phosphors to settle, and watch stuffwith as little static images as possible. so, right after the break-in period, i intend to hook up my 360, via hdmi. now, here is where my questions come in (remember, this is after the break-in period, of two hundred hours):
> generally, how long can i pay a game, with huds on for, at a time? i've read you should game for x amount of hours, then switch over to a tv channel, with no static logos, but how long should i switch over to a tv channel for, and, how often?
> 
> how long is it advisable to watch a dvd with a static logo/tv broadcast, per session, with static logo, before switching to a channel with no logo, for x amount of minutes?
> 
> 
> i think that just about covers everything - thanks for any help you guys can give



Every set seems to be different- even with the same model line. I'd start small (15 minute sessions with the HUD on) and then check for IR. If there isn't any, try 30 minutes, then 45, then an hour.


At 70 hours into break in, I haven't seen a single piece of IR, and my wife plays her current RPG on it for a few hours at a time, and I've been playing some 45 minute Halo sessions with no ill effects.


Every night and every day while I'm at work I run the break in images off an SD card.


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shidarin* /forum/post/14884325
> 
> 
> Every set seems to be different- even with the same model line. I'd start small (15 minute sessions with the HUD on) and then check for IR. If there isn't any, try 30 minutes, then 45, then an hour.
> 
> 
> At 70 hours into break in, I haven't seen a single piece of IR, and my wife plays her current RPG on it for a few hours at a time, and I've been playing some 45 minute Halo sessions with no ill effects.
> 
> 
> Every night and every day while I'm at work I run the break in images off an SD card.



Word of caution with Halo. If you are playing splitscreen with a friend beware of the Big white matchmaking words. The reason being is splitscreen does not take up the whole screen and where it stays black up in the top right corner it will burn in the matchmaking text.(Happened to mine)


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Finalheaven* /forum/post/14856418
> 
> 
> Last night I passed out while watching Cast Away (I love the movie, just seen it too many times) and woke up in the morning to the DVD menu. I have no idea how long the DVD Menu was up there for, but I've been running scrolling black bars since and can see the white letters of the Menu have left their marks.
> 
> 
> My question is: Is running scrolling Black bars better or worse than watching full screen content for removing IR?



Ouch! How did this turn out?


----------



## chevy01xtreme

well i have made about 136 hrs on hd card breakin and now i am done. with watching tv it should be now over 150+ hrs.. i kept track of how long the sd card played for.. now i can enjoy my panasonic TH-58PZ800U.


now just to find the perfect settings










thanks for the break in cd.SD card images


----------



## VolksKing

Ok, heres a question that I'm quite sure has been answered, probably a 1000 times-- but please humor me and save me the hours it would take to find an answer on this incredibly large forum.


As I read more about newer plasma technology (wife and I are shopping mode, leaning toward a plasma Panasonic), even here on this forum, I see the use of generalities as common practice. For example, when reading about Image Retention and Burn-In issues, I often see answers given in general terms such as "don't leave the black bars or network logos on the screen for _extended periods of time_". Well, the word "extended" will mean vastly different things to different people, and unless your opinion just so happens to align with that of the TV's manufacturer, there could be a problem.


So to ask my question, when I see the phrase "extended periods of time", what does this typically mean? Can I watch the length of a television program with the semi-transparent network logo in the corner, even when that logo may remain for up to 15-20 minutes without interruption? Can I watch a normal length movie (2 hours-ish) in 2.35 ratio? Can I watch 4.3 programming long enough to finish the latest episode of House? Are any of these situations severe enough to merit any real concern? From what I have gathered so far, I'd think not. But we are 95% sold on a plasma panel TV, this issue being our only stumbling block. Thanks for any clarification.


----------



## shidarin

I am new enough to plasma to not be able to give specific recommendations (just finished my 100 hour breakin on our first plasma), but I do know that as time goes on the danger gets less and less.


You shouldn't have to worry about super ghosted logos (CBS has a faint ghost bug in the corner.. History Channel HD does not know the definition of faint), and for everything else I wouldn't leave it on...


The word on the street seems to be don't watch a 2.35 movie with bars (zoom in to remove bars) for the first 100 hours, but after that you can do so in moderation (Thank you thank you thank you for wanting to watch it in 2.35







, I watched half of Iron Man last night at 90 hours, ran the break in card for another 8, and finished it this morning.


You won't have to worry about 4:3 programming to watch House- it's broadcast in HD and looks fantastic







I've been stretching my 4:3 to fullscreen.


----------



## VolksKing




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shidarin* /forum/post/14894085
> 
> 
> You won't have to worry about 4:3 programming to watch House- it's broadcast in HD and looks fantastic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been stretching my 4:3 to fullscreen.



I only used "House" as a fecetious example, but I absolutely REFUSE to use stretch-o-vision...... I'd much rather leave the TV off than to watch things out of ratio. Everytime I walk into my father-in-law's house and look at the TV, I'm instantly irritated and have to leave the room. His TV seems to be stuck in stretch-o-vision mode, and since he lost the remote long ago, we can't figure out how to change it. And he's too cheap to buy a new remote because his cable remote operates the basic functions on the TV. On-screen people with heads shaped like footballs doesn't seem to bother him a bit.


I dunno, I think I see more networks using brighter, more solid logo images these days than the ghosted ones. Right now, my wife is watching "Reign of Fire" on AMC, and although the logo is small (white block AMC with yellow box outline), the image is rather bright and not so transparent..... certainly not "ghosted".


Now, with all of this said, I'd like to also refer to the many times I've read recently that the new plasma TV's are no more/less susceptible to burn-in or image retention than were the CRT televisions we've been using for years. (I believe I read that on Panasonic's website info as well.) If this claim is absolutely true, then I don't think any of us have a darn thing to worry about and these "BI/IR" discussions could be put to rest.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VolksKing* /forum/post/14894299
> 
> 
> Now, with all of this said, I'd like to also refer to the many times I've read recently that the new plasma TV's are no more/less susceptible to burn-in or image retention than were the CRT televisions we've been using for years. (I believe I read that on Panasonic's website info as well.) If this claim is absolutely true, then I don't think any of us have a darn thing to worry about and these "BI/IR" discussions could be put to rest.



I'll chime in with a little perspective.


I bought my Panny 85u about 4 months ago. Until that time I had been shopping for a new set for 3-4 years. IR and Burn-in were major issues for me and I wasn't unaware of the pitfalls as plasma had been my preferred choice during these years of searching. To be honest I had almost given up on plasma because of these factors. Why? It wasnt so much beacuse I feared the problems, I knew I could manage these indisyncrasies (though admittedely it put me off a bit to have to). My biggest fear stemmed from my kids. I was seriously worried that a plasma and kids were a bad mix. Would it really be fair to expect them to follow the "rules" that seemd necessary?


Long story short, after reading through the forum quite a bit, educating myself quite a bit (my membership is 5 years old but my post count was well under 50 four months ago) and the reports that Panasonic especially had really licked the burn-in IR problems, I'm somewhere around 600 hrs now and haven't had a single case of burn-in or IR. I follow the rules set out in the break-in FAQ, as do the kids.


One last word, as indicated in the FAQ, unless what I'm watching is HD, if it is 4:3 content, I typically watch it in JUST mode. I agree completely with your sentiments regarding stretch-o-vision, can't stand it. That said, the Panny scales such content extremely well. Though I dislike stretched images, I have to admit that if the signal is crud to begin with do I really care if the aspect is perfect?


----------



## bananax

OK! I picked upa 42" pz85!


for burn in, Can I run the DVD on my tv for 100 hours straight? or should it be in small bursts?


----------



## fatbottom

Just watch full screen/widescreen material with no logos. Something like 24 on DVD, same ratio as the TV


----------



## bananax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/14902344
> 
> 
> Just watch full screen/widescreen material with no logos. Something like 24 on DVD, same ratio as the TV



I meant the Burn in DVD  when I watch it's mostly the same ratio as the TV(HD TV Shows) so I'm ok there, but for the burn in process


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VolksKing* /forum/post/14893957
> 
> 
> Ok, heres a question that I'm quite sure has been answered, probably a 1000 times-- but please humor me and save me the hours it would take to find an answer on this incredibly large forum.
> 
> 
> As I read more about newer plasma technology (wife and I are shopping mode, leaning toward a plasma Panasonic), even here on this forum, I see the use of generalities as common practice. For example, when reading about Image Retention and Burn-In issues, I often see answers given in general terms such as "don't leave the black bars or network logos on the screen for _extended periods of time_". Well, the word "extended" will mean vastly different things to different people, and unless your opinion just so happens to align with that of the TV's manufacturer, there could be a problem.
> 
> 
> So to ask my question, when I see the phrase "extended periods of time", what does this typically mean? Can I watch the length of a television program with the semi-transparent network logo in the corner, even when that logo may remain for up to 15-20 minutes without interruption? Can I watch a normal length movie (2 hours-ish) in 2.35 ratio? Can I watch 4.3 programming long enough to finish the latest episode of House? Are any of these situations severe enough to merit any real concern? From what I have gathered so far, I'd think not. But we are 95% sold on a plasma panel TV, this issue being our only stumbling block. Thanks for any clarification.



The first weekend I had my Panasonic plasma in 2005, I watched about 12 hours of NFL Sunday ticket. I had no problems with the score bars or logos.


The first 100-200 hours, I would avoid watching programs in 4:3 mode, channels like CNN with lots of static images, and 2.35 ratio movies. A half hour of Headline News is probably not going to cause any problems, but I wouldn't watch a couple hours worth. Follow the break-in guidelines, especially in terms of lowering brightness.


Once you get past 100 hours, I'd say you're fine with logos and watching movies in 2.35. I'd still be careful with 4:3 content with the black bars, but watching a show in 4:3 here and there won't be a problem. I also agree that the Panasonic Just mode is pretty good -- I was amazed at how quickly I got used to the image.


I was really concerned about burn-in because of all the things I read, and I've never had an issue with it. It's even less of an issue now than it was three years ago. Unless you plan on watching CNN all day or watching things mostly in 4:3, I don't think you have much to worry about.


----------



## teevman

i'm a bit confused about the break-in period, should we be breaking the set in with a high contrast setting or a lower one, in the pioneer thread they talk about using sport setting and contrast of 50 (out of 60 i believe) but in the panasonic thread i see settings listed with cinema setting and contrast of 50 or less ( out of 100), they seem to contradict each other, could someone clarify this for me, should i use higher contrast for breakin or lower, thanks.


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *teevman* /forum/post/14912571
> 
> 
> i'm a bit confused about the break-in period, should we be breaking the set in with a high contrast setting or a lower one, in the pioneer thread they talk about using sport setting and contrast of 50 (out of 60 i believe) but in the panasonic thread i see settings listed with cinema setting and contrast of 50 or less ( out of 100), they seem to contradict each other, could someone clarify this for me, should i use higher contrast for breakin or lower, thanks.



The way that I understand it it, high contrast is fine when running the break-in dvd since every pixel is being run at the exact same color value. Conversely, you have to worry about contrast when watching viewing material (tv, movies, etc..) since everything is not being baked uniformly. TVs that have contrast values 1-100 should be run around 50 and TVs that have 1-50 should be run at 0 when viewing regular content (not the break-in dvd).


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *teevman* /forum/post/14912571
> 
> 
> i'm a bit confused about the break-in period, should we be breaking the set in with a high contrast setting or a lower one, in the pioneer thread they talk about using sport setting and contrast of 50 (out of 60 i believe) but in the panasonic thread i see settings listed with cinema setting and contrast of 50 or less ( out of 100), they seem to contradict each other, could someone clarify this for me, should i use higher contrast for breakin or lower, thanks.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dauger* /forum/post/14913460
> 
> 
> The way that I understand it it, high contrast is fine when running the break-in dvd since every pixel is being run at the exact same color value. Conversely, you have to worry about contrast when watching viewing material (tv, movies, etc..) since everything is not being baked uniformly. TVs that have contrast values 1-100 should be run around 50 and TVs that have 1-50 should be run at 0 when viewing regular content (not the break-in dvd).



To quote Mr. Tyrell "The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long...."


Though it won't really matter in the long run, the Pio method achieves the same thing as the Panny method at the expense of some of the phosphor longevity. Splitting hairs though.


----------



## teevman

ok thanks for the replys


----------



## RYAXIN

After reading countless posts on the above mentioned subject and seeing how much of a concern it is to countless members I need to state my facts on what we have experienced.


I own the Samsung PN50A450. (BTW - I love this TV







)


I joined the AVS forum in fear of the horror stories I have read/heard (true or not







) from many people who have owned plasmas and in hopes that any information I came across on this forum would either put my mind at ease or find a way to reduce the chances of aquiring those famous words 'BURN IN'.


Well, it's been a month since we've had this TV and we tend to watch our content full screen. HD programming is awesome! From time to time we will have the occasional grey/black bars but they have proven themselves harmless in every way. I was so paranoid







from the start that I ventured into downloading the Break In DVD. I wanted to pass those crucial 100 or so hours that everyone was talking about. It turns out that I never had to use it. I was SOOOOO paranoid about burn in, yet I've never even used it once! I simply used my common sense along with many other suggestions from other AVS members. The Break In DVD is not needed at all.


We've only had a mild case of IR from the CNN news channel. It wasn't the CNN logo it was the 'LIVE' word displayed in white that caused the IR for a day or two but went away with normal TV viewing. I've only used the scrolling feature for that instance only and never used it again (about 15 minutes worth and realistically it was not even needed). I do have the pixel shifting feature on but that is all.


It's been almost a week since I've tweaked my settings to aquire a better picture and we have not noticed any type of IR at all since. CNN or any other stationary logos are no longer of a concern, if anything they may create some mild IR.

Our conclusion on burn in: In order for burn in to occur, you must really have to abuse the plasma. Example being: Plasma being on torch mode from day one and leaving a static image displayed for days on end.

Our conclusion on IR: Although we've only ever experienced IR once, it did go away quite easily. Based on countless other posts I have read, IR gets reduced considerably as the set surpasses it's break in period. If you do experience IR, mild or severe it can go away, period.


I should also point out that up until a week ago I kept my contrast and brightness at around 50, I've now upped my contrast to 75 and lowered my brightness to 47. IR has not appeared at all.


We are so happy with our plasma we would not hesitate to get another one if and when the time comes.


----------



## red_ryder

Hi guys,


I saw a Kuro 428 for sale at $1700 USD and am sorely tempted to buy one. However, I'm concerned about the initial break-in period. Based on average expected usage, it will take about 4 months to reach 100 hrs of the break-in period. My wife is also not going to let me leave the TV on 24/7 on a break-in DVD.


The TV will be used by my kids as well as myself, and I can't guarantee that they will keep to the break-in settings, especially when I'm off travelling for business. They probably won't mess with the contrast/brightness settings, but they will be watching 4:3 programs for 2-3 hours at a stretch.


Is the initial break-in period that critical to avoid burn-in?


----------



## chevy01xtreme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *red_ryder* /forum/post/14961684
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I saw a Kuro 428 for sale at $1700 USD and am sorely tempted to buy one. However, I'm concerned about the initial break-in period. Based on average expected usage, it will take about 4 months to reach 100 hrs of the break-in period. My wife is also not going to let me leave the TV on 24/7 on a break-in DVD.
> 
> 
> The TV will be used by my kids as well as myself, and I can't guarantee that they will keep to the break-in settings, especially when I'm off travelling for business. They probably won't mess with the contrast/brightness settings, but they will be watching 4:3 programs for 2-3 hours at a stretch.
> 
> 
> Is the initial break-in period that critical to avoid burn-in?



you dont have to run the break in images or dvd for 24/7 . just do when you g to bed at night and you will be fine..


----------



## Tunnan

The technician claimed that they get calls every single day about burn-ins at their TVs. Today a woman who liked to watch FOX har the FOX logo when watching a dvd! In order to avoid it brightness and contrast should be lowered but thus also the picture quality according to the technician. So watching a soccer game 90 minutes is not possible with high contrast and high brightness since it has the score and the logo in one upper corner. And if done several times a week, chance is bigger that there will be a permanent burn-in! He said that during the break-in, which is 200 hours, one has to play some kind of movie three times the time that the previous show lasted to get the burn-in away! After the break-in twice! That means, always according to the Pioneer technician, that if I watch a 90 minute soccer game during the break-in period, I have to put on something else for 270 minutes right after to eliminate the risk of burn in. And after the break-in period for 90-180 minutes... If this is correct information, a plasma must be only for movie watching without network logos and not even to watch a political debate that lasts for 90 minutes or more. He told me to get an LCD if I was going to watch shows with logos that last for more than one half of soccer, that is 45 minutes... If it's that critical I think I might as well stay with my current CRT.

I hate this now that I had made a decision to get the Pio 5020!!!


----------



## Tunnan

He also said that the max a logo can be on the TV is 15 minutes if it is white with black background. On the other hand he said that usually the newtwork logos are transparent and don't do much damage.

If you look at these images, you can see that the score at the top left is on a black background with white letters and orange numbers. Also the logo says LIVE in white with a black background. That's what I will be having 2X45 minutes twice or three times a week.

 

 


I am really confused about this burn in thing now... I mean, if one can only have a logo/scoreboard for 15 minutes at the time







, it's time to get a new technology... I thought I would be able to watch my favorite sports on a plasma...







ANd also, if you buy hockey games on PPV they will have the same scoreboard without interruptions for commercials. How on earth does that work?


Any ideas on this?


----------



## Fr. John

You should have bought a Panny, they are reportedly much better than Pio for IR and burn-in.


----------



## Tunnan

I haven't bought it yet and my problem is which way to go... If LCD Samsung is my obvious choice. If I go with Plasma it's Pioneer. But I don't want to have burn ins from watching a couple of soccer games...


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14969252
> 
> 
> I haven't bought it yet and my problem is which way to go... If LCD Samsung is my obvious choice. If I go with Plasma it's Pioneer. But I don't want to have burn ins from watching a couple of soccer games...



Now I am confused. So you dont have a Pioneer Plasma? The reason I ask is I have a little experience with them for years and have not had anyone complain about burn in, and there is NO evidence out there that Panasonic is better, this is directed to the other post above.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14969020
> 
> 
> You should have bought a Panny, they are reportedly much better than Pio for IR and burn-in.



Really? I've been playing 2.35:1 ratio movies alost exclusively even from the first minute of my Pio PRO-111 (using movie mode for the first 100 hours) and have played about 5 to 8 movies a week since the 111 was released. I have yet to see any IR on my screen.


I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how much "better" can it be?


----------



## Tunnan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROMAN O* /forum/post/14969270
> 
> 
> Now I am confused. So you dont have a Pioneer Plasma? The reason I ask is I have a little experience with them for years and have not had anyone complain about burn in, and there is NO evidence out there that Panasonic is better, this is directed to the other post above.



I am in the business for shopping an HDTV but want to do my research first. The pictures that I attached to my previous post were pics from my current TV, but I wonder if the scoreboard and the "LIVE" logo at the top will leave any burn ins. According to the Pioneer technician YES, if on more than 15 minutes (one half in soccer is 45 minutes!). Aftetr 15 minutes he claimed that I should change channel for five mintes... Yeah! That's hell of a soccer experience on a "new" HDTV!


----------



## ROMAN O

I understand







My point is the technician is not correct and you can tell that from one post above and by looking around the threads and take my word for it since I get feedback on hundreds of these units. If you dont get more responses here, you can start a new thread and that will prove my point


----------



## chadmak09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14969020
> 
> 
> You should have bought a Panny, they are reportedly much better than Pio for IR and burn-in.



please direct us to these reports.

Because for the majority of us that have really done the reasearch it is the exact opposite of what you just said.


----------



## Tunnan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ROMAN O* /forum/post/14969450
> 
> 
> I understand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point is the technician is not correct and you can tell that from one post above and by looking around the threads and take my word for it since I get feedback on hundreds of these units. If you dont get more responses here, you can start a new thread and that will prove my point



OK. SO how long would it take to get a burn in from those logos/scoreboards? Two technicians at Pioneer said 45 minutes will DEFINITELY give me burn in. I have no clue and just want to rest assured if I am going to spend almost $3000 ona new TV set. And as you understand I don't want to sacrifice brightness and contrast because of burn in either. Because then I don't get the optimal picture out of it and might as well buy a cheaper one... Hope you understand what I mean.


----------



## chadmak09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14969383
> 
> 
> I am in the business for shopping an HDTV but want to do my research first. The pictures that I attached to my previous post were pics from my current TV, but I wonder if the scoreboard and the "LIVE" logo at the top will leave any burn ins. According to the Pioneer technician YES, if on more than 15 minutes (one half in soccer is 45 minutes!). Aftetr 15 minutes he claimed that I should change channel for five mintes... Yeah! That's hell of a soccer experience on a "new" HDTV!



I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will not get burn-in from leaving a logo or sports ticker on the screen for 15 minutes. not even for hours.

IF that was the case then my Pioneer would be burned in so bad I would not be able to see the screen.


I have owned three Pioneer Kuro's (pdp-5080Hd, PDP-6020FD, PRO-151FD).

I watch countless hours of sports (sometimes I watch college football all day long on ESPN), Play hours and hours of Call of Duty4 on my PS3, and fell asleep numerous times with a DVD menu on the screen for hours at a time.

I have still never experienced IR (much less burn-in) on any of the three Kuro's. And none of the countless other Kuro owners that I know have reported Burn-in. The worse I have heard of was a little IR that went away after about 15 minutes of watching regular content..


I have heard of one (non-verified) case of Burn-in on a Kuro.

And that was when someone bought a floor model that was displaying the same channel LOGO for 6 MONTHS straight, and the Burn-in prevention feature (orbitor) was disabled.

This instance is what I would call 100% outright ABUSE.


To explain your responces from the pioneer phone calls,

Its either ne of 3 things:

1. The Rep did not know what she/he was talking about (which is not rare).

2. Or He/She was told to give these answers as a "CYA" tactic for liability reasons.

3. The rep is confusing IR with Burn-in. (but then again, I have never heard of anyone getting even IR from just 15 minutes of a static image/logo)


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14969542
> 
> 
> OK. SO how long would it take to get a burn in from those logos/scoreboards? Two technicians at Pioneer said 45 minutes will DEFINITELY give me burn in. I have no clue and just want to rest assured if I am going to spend almost $3000 ona new TV set. And as you understand I don't want to sacrifice brightness and contrast because of burn in either. Because then I don't get the optimal picture out of it and might as well buy a cheaper one... Hope you understand what I mean.



What Chad said above


----------



## Fanaticalism

Tunan,


I currently own TWO Pioneer Elite plasmas. One, is last years Pro950, which is an 8th generation Pioneer, 1st generation Kuro Elite. It is a bedroom set, with a PS3, and HD cable box. The PS3 is primarily a blu-ray player. Being that it is a bedroom set, and we like to watch movies before we go to bed, there are many times where we fall asleep during the movie, to wake up to the opening menu of the disc, which has loads of solid static images. I have yet to see any IR, nevermind BI.


On to the living room set, which a 9th generation Pioneer, 2nd generation Kuro Elite. This is the main viewing area, with again, a PS3, which is used primarily as BD player. An XBox360, Wii, and an HD DVR.


Viewing habits are ESPN, loads of BR content with film shot in 2.35:1 aspect ratio (Widescreen with black bars). On movie night, there are instances where we'll watch two to three movies in a row shot in this format. I do notice IR afterwards, which is typically takes about 2-3 minutes to subside. Keep in mind, we are talking about anywhere from one and half, to seven hours of viewing.


As for gaming, I typically only play one game, which is Call of Duty 4 multiplayer (online). These sessions can vary from anywhere between an hour, to 3 hours of continuous play, about two to three nights a week. While this may not seem as severe as those reporting up to three hours of gameplay, every night of the week, I feel as though my circumstances are much more critical. Reason I feel this way, is simply because we are talking about the same exact static images being repeatedly displayed over, and over, and over again, where as other have mixed content. I can say with the upmost of confidence that while I have experience some image retention, it again, subsides after a few minutes of watching differing content.


Keep in mind, that this is a much newer panel, which will only get better as time progresses, causing the phophors to further settle, and age.


I would like to note, that I did in fact did use the break in disc, with a slightly modified procedure to the one recommended. For one, I did not use accelerated settings. On the contrary, I reduced them while utilizing the Pure A/V selection. I ran the disc continously for about sixty hours. I then mixed in some full screen content, while running the disc whenever the panel was not in use.





As to the poster mentioning that the Panasonics are better in regards to IR. This is absolutely false, as it is widely known that the Pioneers are the absolute best in this respect.


----------



## Fanaticalism




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chadmak09* /forum/post/14969586
> 
> 
> I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will not get burn-in from leaving a logo or sports ticker on the screen for 15 minutes. not even for hours.
> 
> IF that was the case then my Pioneer would be burned in so bad I would not be able to see the screen.
> 
> 
> I have owned three Pioneer Kuro's (pdp-5080Hd, PDP-6020FD, PRO-151FD).
> 
> I watch countless hours of sports (sometimes I watch college football all day long on ESPN), Play hours and hours of Call of Duty4 on my PS3, and fell asleep numerous times with a DVD menu on the screen for hours at a time.
> 
> I have still never experienced IR (much less burn-in) on any of the three Kuro's. And none of the countless other Kuro owners that I know have reported Burn-in. The worse I have heard of was a little IR that went away after about 15 minutes of watching regular content..
> 
> *I have heard of one (non-verified) case of Burn-in on a Kuro.
> 
> And that was when someone bought a floor model that was displaying the same channel LOGO for 6 MONTHS straight, and the Burn-in prevention feature (orbitor) was disabled.
> 
> This instance is what I would call 100% outright ABUSE.*
> 
> 
> To explain your responces from the pioneer phone calls,
> 
> Its either ne of 3 things:
> 
> 1. The Rep did not know what she/he was talking about (which is not rare).
> 
> 2. Or He/She was told to give these answers as a "CYA" tactic for liability reasons.
> 
> 3. The rep is confusing IR with Burn-in. (but then again, I have never heard of anyone getting even IR from just 15 minutes of a static image/logo)




I would like to comment on this. If you were to take an LCD, and place under these same exact circumstances, it too would suffer from burn in.


----------



## Tunnan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chadmak09* /forum/post/14969586
> 
> 
> I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will not get burn-in from leaving a logo or sports ticker on the screen for 15 minutes. not even for hours.
> 
> IF that was the case then my Pioneer would be burned in so bad I would not be able to see the screen.
> 
> 
> I have owned three Pioneer Kuro's (pdp-5080Hd, PDP-6020FD, PRO-151FD).
> 
> I watch countless hours of sports (sometimes I watch college football all day long on ESPN), Play hours and hours of Call of Duty4 on my PS3, and fell asleep numerous times with a DVD menu on the screen for hours at a time.
> 
> I have still never experienced IR (much less burn-in) on any of the three Kuro's. And none of the countless other Kuro owners that I know have reported Burn-in. The worse I have heard of was a little IR that went away after about 15 minutes of watching regular content..
> 
> 
> I have heard of one (non-verified) case of Burn-in on a Kuro.
> 
> And that was when someone bought a floor model that was displaying the same channel LOGO for 6 MONTHS straight, and the Burn-in prevention feature (orbitor) was disabled.
> 
> This instance is what I would call 100% outright ABUSE.
> 
> 
> To explain your responces from the pioneer phone calls,
> 
> Its either ne of 3 things:
> 
> 1. The Rep did not know what she/he was talking about (which is not rare).
> 
> 2. Or He/She was told to give these answers as a "CYA" tactic for liability reasons.
> 
> 3. The rep is confusing IR with Burn-in. (but then again, I have never heard of anyone getting even IR from just 15 minutes of a static image/logo)



Chad,


It wasn't from 15 minutes, they both said that MAX 15 minutes, then I'd had to change for 5 minutes. I was asking about 45 minutes and then they said that it would DEFINITELY have it. But, I guess I will have to trust the users... OTOH I should also say that ESPN has commercial breaks every ten minutes or so, when I watch soccer there is nothing but soccer with that little score board or scoreticker in the left corner for 45-50 minutes straight. THEN there is a commercial break...


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14969252
> 
> 
> I haven't bought it yet and my problem is which way to go... If LCD Samsung is my obvious choice. If I go with Plasma it's Pioneer. But I don't want to have burn ins from watching a couple of soccer games...



Why are you limiting yourself to Pio?


----------



## Tunnan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/14969835
> 
> 
> Why are you limiting yourself to Pio?



For the same reason I am limiting myself to Samsung in case of LCD - Best picture quality for the money...

But my main worry was the IR, not the brand...


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/14969276
> 
> 
> Really? I've been playing 2.35:1 ratio movies alost exclusively even from the first minute of my Pio PRO-111 (using movie mode for the first 100 hours) and have played about 5 to 8 movies a week since the 111 was released. I have yet to see any IR on my screen.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how much "better" can it be?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chadmak09* /forum/post/14969532
> 
> 
> please direct us to these reports.
> 
> Because for the majority of us that have really done the reasearch it is the exact opposite of what you just said.



I should have qualified my comments. I didn't mean to imply that Pio does poorly with IR and BI but simply that from looking over the forums it seems that Panny has done an even better job than Pio in this regard. I have absolutely no empirical evidence other than my own research which is almost singularly tied to these forums.


What I was really getting at, and should have clarified, was that what Tunnan is reporting/being told goes against my experience as a Panny owner.


----------



## AuDiOBoY529

Hey guys I think I have a burn-in on my plasma. How can I get rid of that?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AuDiOBoY529* /forum/post/14970184
> 
> 
> Hey guys I think I have a burn-in on my plasma. How can I get rid of that?



You can't, now stop making up stories.


----------



## AuDiOBoY529

No, I'm not making this up. This is serious.


----------



## fatbottom

Complain to the channel studios, informing them you won't be watching the channel until at lease see though logos are introduced or removed altogether. The longest I've watched a channel with pure white logo is 45 minutes, but contrast is set 20/60 so shouldn't get screenburn.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14969860
> 
> 
> For the same reason I am limiting myself to Samsung in case of LCD - Best picture quality for the money...
> 
> But my main worry was the IR, not the brand...



If you are this worried about it then just go LCD.


----------



## chadmak09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fanaticalism* /forum/post/14969680
> 
> 
> 
> As for gaming, I typically only play one game, which is Call of Duty 4 multiplayer (online). These sessions can vary from anywhere between an hour, to 3 hours of continuous play, about two to three nights a week. .



We need to play sometime.

Add me. I am Chadmak09


----------



## Tunnan

OK. So I am now officially a PITA here...


During the BI period, can I watch morning news with the strong logo with the temp and clock constantly there while on air if I set down brightness and contrast and watch it without the side/top bars or is that only possible after the BI?


----------



## David Susilo

Tunnan, YMMV, but on my PRO-1150 (not PRO-111) I watch about 30 minutes of news with various 100% constant and 100% solid lines and logos, clock, weather logos and such since the first day I received the plasma. As usual, I use MOVIE mode for the first 100 hours before I ISF calibrated the plasma.


----------



## Fanaticalism




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chadmak09* /forum/post/14970643
> 
> 
> We need to play sometime.
> 
> Add me. I am Chadmak09



You got it bro, although I don't play much on the PS3. Do you have a 360?


----------



## Tunnan

I have a question... LOL!


What about subtitles? We tend to have subtitles very often on the movies because we watch a lot of foreign movies and my hearing isn't what it has been so osften on DVDs we put the subs on even if the movie is in English. They tend to be at the same place throughout the movie with very little changing. Could that cause IR or BI during the Break In period?


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnan* /forum/post/14973032
> 
> 
> I have a question... LOL!
> 
> 
> What about subtitles? We tend to have subtitles very often on the movies because we watch a lot of foreign movies and my hearing isn't what it has been so osften on DVDs we put the subs on even if the movie is in English. They tend to be at the same place throughout the movie with very little changing. Could that cause IR or BI during the Break In period?



None at all. Unless the same word is displayed throughout the entire movie which I doubt







, you have no worries there.


----------



## chadmak09

Tunnan,

You really don't have to worry so much.


you don't have to worry about watching regular programming. Even if there are static logo's, sports tickers, etc.

Especially if you get a newer panny or Pioneer plasma.


Just use common sense.

Don't pause the TV and then go spend 2 days at a buddys house.


These new pixel shifter/ orbitors built into the TV's really do an amazing job at preventing Burn-in and IR.


What the orbitor on my pioneer does is it shifts the entire screen around a few pixels. This way the screen is always in motion.

and don't worry, You canot see the orbitor in action. It runs invisibly.


If you break the set in properly (run break-in disk/ run full-screen content) for the first 200 hours, and use the orbitor at all times, then a Kuro plasma is as likely to get Burn-in as a regular CRT is.

Would you worry about Burn-in on a CRT? nope (unless you abuse the heck out of it)

And from What I read, the newer panasonics are very good also in this regard.

I am not sure about the Sammys.


----------



## fatbottom

How can a orbiter protect a channel where the whole area is bright white? For example Euro News or BBC News 24. It can't


----------



## Darth Indy

I only have 2 days left on my return window so I need to know if I should mess with exchanging mine for another one. I bought the 50" Insignia plasma (got a great deal on it) about 4 weeks ago and am seeing what appears to be burn in in the lower right portion of screen where the ESPN logo always is. I do see image retention now and then but it always go away, with this it doesn't seem to go away although it may have faded alittle. Thing is its only noticeable when you have an all blue screen (such as when it says no signal and screen is bright blue) and get closer to the tv. I never ran it in torch mode and was alway careful to stretch/zoom shows that didn't fill the screen. I watch alot of ESPN though, especially since its football season.


----------



## David Susilo

the more entry-level brands tend to IR far more than the Panasonic, let alone Pioneer. Have you tried white-wash?


----------



## RYAXIN

I have a Samsung, I've only ever had 1 (ONE) mild case of IR that quickly went away. NEVER seen anything else ever since. Black bars, HARDCORE static images for hours on end, various content bla bla...bla bla....and....you got it, bla bla.










IMHO, if you break in your set properly and calibrate your TV the way it is suppose to than IR and BI are a non issue....and yes I do believe a proper calibration makes a difference.


Now why others do get blessed with IR and the very few other cases of reported BI could be one of many reasons. Perhaps reasons we have not looked upon or even thought of to discuss.


It does seem (based on all the reports I have read) that Samsungs may be a little more sensitive in regards to IR. That may very well be the case, however I should also note that it has not been an issue for my set. Am I doing something others are not? Maybe, just maybe what I quoted above in regards to breaking in the set properly does make a difference or maybe I am just down right lucky.


Whatever the answer is to that, and I am certain many of you will have countless answers... in the very end of it all I do not think that this generation of plasmas are all that bad. Moving forward, if you do notice IR it does not mean your plasma is defective. It WILL go away.


----------



## Darth Indy

No, I haven't tried white wash. What do I need to do for that? I checked this morning and the logo is still there and only noticeable on white or blue background.


----------



## dauger

If it were me, I'd leave the thing on with content that fills the entire screen (w/ no water mark) for the next 10 hours or so. If the IR isn't gone, I'd return it since you are fully within your rights according to the return policy.


----------



## Tony6225

Ive had a Samsung PN50A650 for almost a month now. Everything has been great so far. IR happens every so often with station logos and it washes away within a minute of regular viewing. Last night I had a marathon playing Gran Turismo5. I played this game for about 4 hours straight the day I bought it and everything was fine using toned down settings and the Pixel Shifter. IR washed away almost immediately. Last night I played for roughly 4 more hours but I was using Entertainment:Game mode which is pretty much torch mode. I have 3 different parts of the screen that are suffering some pretty bad IR (hopefully not BI). Two of these areas have mostly washed away for the most part. But one area persists. After about two hours of regular viewing the digital speedometer on the bottom right corner is still visible on bright solid content. Its not quite as bad as it originally was as soon as I stopped playing, but its there. How long can image retention last before its just considered burn in?


----------



## SlingShotUK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tony6225* /forum/post/15016273
> 
> 
> Ive had a Samsung PN50A650 for almost a month now. Everything has been great so far. IR happens every so often with station logos and it washes away within a minute of regular viewing. Last night I had a marathon playing Gran Turismo5. I played this game for about 4 hours straight the day I bought it and everything was fine using toned down settings and the Pixel Shifter. IR washed away almost immediately. Last night I played for roughly 4 more hours but I was using Entertainment:Game mode which is pretty much torch mode. I have 3 different parts of the screen that are suffering some pretty bad IR (hopefully not BI). Two of these areas have mostly washed away for the most part. But one area persists. After about two hours of regular viewing the digital speedometer on the bottom right corner is still visible on bright solid content. Its not quite as bad as it originally was as soon as I stopped playing, but its there. How long can image retention last before its just considered burn in?



Don't worry it will go.. Permanent burn in is not really something to be concerned about nowadays and I think is only really something that can happen when the IR has been built up for months and months.. At this point it's only permanent because the time needed for it to fade is longer than the life of the set..


I have IR on my 9G Pioneer which after 6 weeks still hasnt gone, but you can't see it at all when viewing normally (only in pitch black with a black background and then enhanced in Photoshop). It's going though..

Mine was caused by repeated games on GTA 4 on the PS3.. Some 5 hours sessions at weekends and 2-3 hours ones in the week. I didnt use the orbiter or break every hour etc..


It is going though and I think in the next few weeks it'll be completely sorted.


On mine, for the first 10 nights I ran whitenoise on the set for 10-12 hours. This was recommended to me by an ISF calibrator. Try that over night and see how you get on.


----------



## proudx

yes don't worry. I also believe if you physically unplug your tv from the wall for 24 to 48hours you can get rid of the IR that way as well for any of that long term 6week ir stuff you see.


I used to run the white screens after every extended gaming session, but soon realized that its temporary and with different content will go away in time, no need in wasting power, just unplug for a few days and that should remove any buildup in the plasma wall cells.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *proudx* /forum/post/15016425
> 
> 
> I also believe if you physically unplug your tv from the wall for 24 to 48hours you can get rid of the IR that way as well for any of that long term 6week ir stuff you see.


----------



## proudx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15016441



you get rid of the IR because the tv is off. hahahahaha.


No , really something about the discharging of cells in the plasma wall over a period of not having power, hence pulling the plug will take care of IR.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *proudx* /forum/post/15016527
> 
> 
> you get rid of the IR because the tv is off. hahahahaha.
> 
> 
> No , really something about the discharging of cells in the plasma wall over a period of not having power, hence pulling the plug will take care of IR.



That's about LCD's not plasma.


----------



## tvhunter

ok, dumb question for which I have not found the answer. Why are these tvs more susceptible to IR during the break-in period? iow, what happens to the tv during the break-in period that makes it less susceptible afterwards?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tvhunter* /forum/post/15017900
> 
> 
> ok, dumb question for which I have not found the answer. Why are these tvs more susceptible to IR during the break-in period? iow, what happens to the tv during the break-in period that makes it less susceptible afterwards?



Not dumb. Quick answer, the phosphors are more sensitive when new and untempered so to speak. As you use the set they become "broken-in" and less susceptible. Hence, when new, if you were to watch something predominantly with bars you'd be aging the center section and not aging the bars sections. This happens indefinitely, the phosphors are always aging (becoming less bright) which is why these displays have a lifespan.


----------



## Tony6225




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SlingShotUK* /forum/post/15016345
> 
> 
> Don't worry it will go.. Permanent burn in is not really something to be concerned about nowadays and I think is only really something that can happen when the IR has been built up for months and months.. At this point it's only permanent because the time needed for it to fade is longer than the life of the set..
> 
> 
> I have IR on my 9G Pioneer which after 6 weeks still hasnt gone, but you can't see it at all when viewing normally (only in pitch black with a black background and then enhanced in Photoshop). It's going though..
> 
> Mine was caused by repeated games on GTA 4 on the PS3.. Some 5 hours sessions at weekends and 2-3 hours ones in the week. I didnt use the orbiter or break every hour etc..
> 
> 
> It is going though and I think in the next few weeks it'll be completely sorted.
> 
> 
> On mine, for the first 10 nights I ran whitenoise on the set for 10-12 hours. This was recommended to me by an ISF calibrator. Try that over night and see how you get on.



Thx for the help. I left the tv on in torch mode on discovery channel for about 5 hours when i left to work out today. When I came back home the spot that was worrying me was definitely making some improvements when viewing from the scroller. So I watched Hulk on BluRay at normal settings and checked the scroller and now its almost invisible. You cannot possibly see it during normal viewing.


----------



## seantos

Ok guys, first post for me, but i have been reading the forums for about 2 years now.


Just a quick question about the Burn in Disc. I DL'd Evangelos DVD-R Video TS Verison of the disc and Im wondering should there be a cycle of reds as well? I ran the disk for i believe 6 hours the first day, but noticed that i could not see any reds being displayed at anytime. There were 3 definate cycles (White/Grey, Blues, Green) but i had thought i read previously that it should run through reds as well.


So im wondering if someone can confrim for me that there is indeed a red cycle. I also noticed that the DVD ran for an hour, and then restarted, and i know i read that it should run for 24 hours. Could my problem be with a faulty DVD Burn?


----------



## davidstvz

It sounds like the DVD was somehow messed up.


Pretty much all color display technologies consist of a matrix of pixels where each pixel consists of a red, green and blue sub pixel.


So the DVD was definitely supposed to show red, green and blue (and the whites and grays light up all 3 types of sub pixels together and your eye mixes the 3 colors into white). If you are seeing the whites and grays normally, then your red pixels are definitely working (or else whites would show up as green + blue which looks kinda like sky blue). That means the DVD must be broken somehow.


----------



## seantos

Awesome.


Thanks for the help, just wanted to make sure i had a good copy before i ran it non stop










Now to figure out why it didnt burn right.


----------



## davidstvz

Well, they have a VCD image as well as a DVD so you can try that. You can also just dump the images onto an SD card if your TV has an SD card slot and the ability to rotate the pictures endlessly (my Panasonic Vierra does). In any case, Good luck










By the way, a question for the veterans here. When displaying the darkest colors via the SD card, it looks like there is some low level noise in the signal as with an analog signal. However, the signal looks fine via HDMI. Is it possible they are running this signal through an analog channel? The picture looks flawless via HDMI (when I ran Halo 3's intro for a few minutes which is a very dark night scene to begin with).


----------



## baxyp

I have Panasonic PY800 and I do get IR after couple of hrs of watching a certain local channel with white logo, tv is in cinema mode with reduced contrast and has 300 hrs. It really does take time to get it out, it is now second day of running full screen programs and mild IR is still there. I wonder how the guys who claim to be viewing 4:3, stations with logos, games etc for extended periods, check for IR ... if you look for IR on the same channel or in the same game which is causing it, or on black screen you naturally would not see anything wrong.

The IR in my case is a shadow on a otherwise uniformly colored screen, you have to look for it with mild gray or mildly colored (blueish for example) image, it is clearly visible on that, but not on fully saturated colors.

So yes, IR continues to be a problem with plasmas these days and even the touted G11 panels are not immune. Not sure about burn-in - but if takes days to get the IR out which got there within few hours - what is the difference ... Granted, I cannot see it most of the time, but right now it shows on sky pans, dust storm images, etc.


----------



## icencream

Burn in Dvd help please.



i just burned the ISO version of this disc. I played it on my regular dvd player. I read where it says that the dvd should be around 100 hrs. Why is my copy only 24 minutes?


did i do anything wrong


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icencream* /forum/post/15035536
> 
> 
> Burn in Dvd help please.
> 
> 
> 
> i just burned the ISO version of this disc. I played it on my regular dvd player. I read where it says that the dvd should be around 100 hrs. Why is my copy only 24 minutes?
> 
> 
> did i do anything wrong



Personally I don't think running the break-in disc is necessary but the idea is to run it for 100 hours on your TV. That doesn't mean that the disc will contain 100 hours of data, you must use the repeat function on your DVD player if you want to have continuous play for more than the 24 minutes.


----------



## blued888

How many 2.35:1 movies in succession can one watch on a plasma?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blued888* /forum/post/15040133
> 
> 
> How many 2.35:1 movies in succession can one watch on a plasma?



Typically 7.35. If the selection is good.


That drops to 5.69 if B movies.


Seriously, this is like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.


----------



## water63

I was hoping to get some help with IR on my Panny TH-50PZ800U.


I have been using the break in DVD on this plasma for about 120 hours. Yesterday I played Metal Gear Solid 4 for about 2-3 hours and all of the images of the logos (life bar, item list, radar) have been "burned in" or ghosted.


I used the break in DVD last night for approx. 7 hours, and it helped significantly, but I can still see the images faintly when the screen is totally black or white.


I have read that if you run "TV snow" or "white noise" it will get rid of this, but I cant get my tv to display this without going black and saying "No Signal".


Just wondering if anybody can post a link to a site where I can download and burn a looping display of "white noise" on DVD like the break in DVD.


Thanks!


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *water63* /forum/post/15040938
> 
> 
> I was hoping to get some help with IR on my Panny TH-50PZ800U.
> 
> 
> I have been using the break in DVD on this plasma for about 120 hours. Yesterday I played Metal Gear Solid 4 for about 2-3 hours and all of the images of the logos (life bar, item list, radar) have been "burned in" or ghosted.
> 
> 
> I used the break in DVD last night for approx. 7 hours, and it helped significantly, but I can still see the images faintly when the screen is totally black or white.
> 
> 
> I have read that if you run "TV snow" or "white noise" it will get rid of this, but I cant get my tv to display this without going black and saying "No Signal".
> 
> 
> Just wondering if anybody can post a link to a site where I can download and burn a looping display of "white noise" on DVD like the break in DVD.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



2 hours got you IR? Wow. What kind of TV do you have? I've played Metal Gear for for like 5 - 6 hours straight, and no IR. I've played other games longer with no breaks. 2 hours seems severe.


----------



## fatbottom

Possibly left in in default dynamic mode and set is brand new?


----------



## goheels

I need a clue... I'm seeing IR after as little as one minute (maybe less) of static images being on screen. Is this even remotely normal? For how long would a static image need to be on screen before I should expect to see some retention? After one minute it takes about that long to get it to go away. If I have CNN or a game on for half an hour, it can take 20-30 minutes to get rid of it. If it's there for an hour or two, I can count on having to wash it out for at least 1.5 hours. (I do change aspect frequently to avoid that scenario...)


I've had the set for about seven months but didn't notice any problems at all during the first five or six. Since this problem became noticeable it seems to have gotten worse. I had a technician out today - he replaced the "y-scan board" and the "y-buffers top and bottom." Obviously, I don't know what those do, but I can say that they didn't fix the problem at all.


In case it is related (I have a hunch it is), the other problem I'm having is shadowing. Meaning, I can see shadows, or thick, dim lines perhaps, extending horizontally from various points on screen to the side edges of the screen. Noticeable from tv menu, volume indicator, mute indicator, as well as various TiVo screens and during credits, when white letters scroll against a black background. Other times and places, too, if I'm really looking. It's very strange to see a scene where a person is standing in front of a window with blinds - the shadows will connect the blinds through the person's face!


The tech said that this should have fixed both problems. Supposedly he's going to check with the boss but I'd like to be better prepared as I continue my quest to get this fixed. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your help - I'll try to answer any questions thoroughly and quickly.


----------



## sfaron

I bought the 42 inch 720 Panny plasma from Costco.


I have an ancient DVD that can't run the breakin video.


Can I use the photo player and just rotate through 20-50 photos? Is this a dumb idea? How often should they cycle.


thanks!


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sfaron* /forum/post/15047912
> 
> 
> I bought the 42 inch 720 Panny plasma from Costco.
> 
> 
> I have an ancient DVD that can't run the breakin video.
> 
> 
> Can I use the photo player and just rotate through 20-50 photos? Is this a dumb idea? How often should they cycle.
> 
> 
> thanks!



Just watch a couple of seasons "full screen" video with no logo. You really don't need to use break in DVD. Something like 24 on DVD, those are 16:9 with no borders, and no logos.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sfaron* /forum/post/15047912
> 
> 
> I bought the 42 inch 720 Panny plasma from Costco.
> 
> 
> I have an ancient DVD that can't run the breakin video.
> 
> 
> Can I use the photo player and just rotate through 20-50 photos? Is this a dumb idea? How often should they cycle.
> 
> 
> thanks!



Read the slide show section on the Break-in FAQ.


----------



## water63




> Quote:
> 2 hours got you IR? Wow. What kind of TV do you have? I've played Metal Gear for for like 5 - 6 hours straight, and no IR. I've played other games longer with no breaks. 2 hours seems severe.



The TV I have is a Panasonic TH-50PX800U and it is new, I've only had it for about a week and a half. I run the break in DVD for about a total of 20 hours each day (while I'm at work, and at night) except for the weekend when I'm at home.


The break in DVD will get rid of most of the IR, but I can still see the words "Old Snake" in the top left hand corner faintly, but only when the screen is totally white or black and I have to be pretty close. I play the game in on game setting during the day, and THX setting at night.


I know this is being anal, but for something that is close to $2,000 I just want to make sure I am not damaging it.


Also, has anybody heard of the DVD Pixel Protector and if they have, is it worth spending the money on?


Thanks!


----------



## bluesky23

Hello,

After much research I have purchased a Panny 50pz800u and it is being installed this Friday. I have read a ton of information on this site about break-in, IR, settings, etc. I have a question:


Since by Sunday I will only have had the TV for a few days, does this mean I can't watch football games this weekend for fear of IR/burn-in?


Thanks!!


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluesky23* /forum/post/15057293
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> After much research I have purchased a Panny 50pz800u and it is being installed this Friday. I have read a ton of information on this site about break-in, IR, settings, etc. I have a question:
> 
> 
> Since by Sunday I will only have had the TV for a few days, does this mean I can't watch football games this weekend for fear of IR/burn-in?
> 
> 
> Thanks!!



It shouldn't be too much of a concern. You may notice some IR depending on what is being displayed but even then it will go away with normal TV viewing. Keep your settings on the low side up until ~200 hrs and you'll be just fine.


Simply follow the few rules for the first 200 hrs or so:


full screen content

low brightness, contrast settings

keep the orbitor on

avoid static logos for extra long periods being displayed.


Enjoy the game!


----------



## rselah25

another good way to get rid of IR is if you have an xbox360 and hook a ipod or put a cd in it or play music some way on it and turn the visual player to full mode and let it run on random for a few hours...gets rid of IR very fast.


----------



## fatbottom

I wouldn't leave a computer unattended just in case it locks up. Someone was playing a burn in disc on a plasma, xbox crashed resetted itself and displayed on the menu all night. So he made the screenburn worse as there were more areas that were now burnt in.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *water63* /forum/post/15056403
> 
> 
> The TV I have is a Panasonic TH-50PX800U and it is new, I've only had it for about a week and a half. I run the break in DVD for about a total of 20 hours each day (while I'm at work, and at night) except for the weekend when I'm at home.
> 
> 
> The break in DVD will get rid of most of the IR, but I can still see the words "Old Snake" in the top left hand corner faintly, but only when the screen is totally white or black and I have to be pretty close. I play the game in on game setting during the day, and THX setting at night.
> 
> 
> I know this is being anal, but for something that is close to $2,000 I just want to make sure I am not damaging it.
> 
> 
> Also, has anybody heard of the DVD Pixel Protector and if they have, is it worth spending the money on?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Wow, I wouldn't think that set would do that. Does it have any kind of orbiter or pixel shift in the menus you can turn on that helps prevent IR?


I played Fallout 3 yesterday on my day off for 6 hours straight and it has a constant green HUD. No IR at all. I checked to make sure when I realized how long I played.


----------



## water63




> Quote:
> Wow, I wouldn't think that set would do that. Does it have any kind of orbiter or pixel shift in the menus you can turn on that helps prevent IR?



I have it set to "game mode" which supposedly has a pixel orbiter. I am worried about it, but not freaking out b/c it does go away after viewing movies, tv, or playing the break in DVD and the TV is still new with only 150 hours on it. Hopefully the "break in" rule holds true, and I won't have to worry about it anymore.


Do you think I need to be concerned since I either have to be really close to the TV(less than a foot), and/or the screen has to be totally black or white to see it? I am completely unable to see IR when I watch satellite or Blu Ray. I just don't know if the IR will slowly build into a burn over time even after I am through with MGS4.


I really appreciate your help!


----------



## fatbottom

Burn does occur over time, and if you just play the same game or watch the same channel with a bright logo you make it worse. If you're a gaming I would just buy a LCD. Keep the plasma for movies.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *water63* /forum/post/15058486
> 
> 
> I have it set to "game mode" which supposedly has a pixel orbiter. I am worried about it, but not freaking out b/c it does go away after viewing movies, tv, or playing the break in DVD and the TV is still new with only 150 hours on it. Hopefully the "break in" rule holds true, and I won't have to worry about it anymore.
> 
> 
> Do you think I need to be concerned since I either have to be really close to the TV(less than a foot), and/or the screen has to be totally black or white to see it? I am completely unable to see IR when I watch satellite or Blu Ray. I just don't know if the IR will slowly build into a burn over time even after I am through with MGS4.
> 
> 
> I really appreciate your help!



Don't play that game for awhile until you are sure it is gone. Mix up your viewing habits until you are more comfortable with how much your TV can take before IT occurs.


----------



## Sokonomi

I just bought my 42PZ85 panasonic, and not giving in on just using the TV is really testing me.











I am running the color gradient DVD right from the start, and im now at around 50 hours of runtime with a very rare moment of watching 30 minutes of TV or "testing" one of my consoles for a few minutes.










Is it a bad idea to do these small intermission funtime moments while its breaking in with the DVD all day, even when its set with contrast around +40? Its just so hard not to toy with it when its sitting next to me, flashing shiny colors at me. Its like sitting infront of a steaming hot steak dinner and youre not supposed to eat it.







Torture.


Can someone tell me how important it is to break in your plasma TV with this boring DVD? Is it an absolute must to leave it alone for 100 hours?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15057810
> 
> 
> I wouldn't leave a computer unattended just in case it locks up. Someone was playing a burn in disc on a plasma, xbox crashed resetted itself and displayed on the menu all night. So he made the screenburn worse as there were more areas that were now burnt in.



A very real point you made there, Im running the burnin disk through my HTPC, and Vista (insert cursewords) decided to install updates and rudely yank my fullscreen video away to display its lovely yellow whinebox.. VERY lucky this occured only minutes before I woke up though, so I caught it in time. The danger is definately there.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sokonomi* /forum/post/15065279
> 
> 
> I just bought my 42PZ85 panasonic, and not giving in on just using the TV is really testing me...Is it an absolute must to leave it alone for 100 hours?



It is absolutely unnecessary. Posts like this are why I poo-poo the break in DVD. There are precautions to take & best practices to follow while your set is new, but all the break in DVD talk takes it to a level that causes seriously unwarranted worrying.


Go ahead and watch some shows, play some games, whatever you want. I watched a basketball game (with on-screen scoreboard, the horror!) and played COD4 (HUDs!







) the day I got my set and never had any problems. Yes, I did take it out of Vivid, reduced the contrast, and made sure everything was full screen for the first couple weeks.


If you want to quickly pile up hours on the set, the break in DVD is fine. You could just put it on HD Theater or some other all-widescreen HD station, whatever floats your boat. But don't let this stuff keep you from actually using the TV the way it was meant to be used.


jeff


----------



## Sokonomi

So I should just squeeze in an hour of my new fallout 3 game wich supposedly doesnt have much onscreen hud going on? Ive been dying to try out some games but im so worried im going to ruin the thing for the rest of its lifespan by throwing some serious business at this brand new phosfor wonder.  Most of my worries are induced by things im reading here on this forum actually. I see lots of people complaining about menus and whatnot getting stuck on their screen after playing barely 2 hours of the same game.


Maybe im being to paranoid.. Ive never owned a plasma before and my last TV was a little 20" samsung synchmaster LCD. This 42" beast seems like the holy grail to me and I have urges to treat it as such.










Im even considdering buying a cooking timer to warn me when an hour is up.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sokonomi* /forum/post/15066020
> 
> 
> So I should just squeeze in an hour of my new fallout 3 game wich supposedly doesnt have much onscreen hud going on? Ive been dying to try out some games but im so worried im going to ruin the thing for the rest of its lifespan by throwing some serious business at this brand new phosfor wonder.  Most of my worries are induced by things im reading here on this forum actually. I see lots of people complaining about menus and whatnot getting stuck on their screen after playing barely 2 hours of the same game.
> 
> 
> Maybe im being to paranoid.. Ive never owned a plasma before and my last TV was a little 20" samsung synchmaster LCD. This 42" beast seems like the holy grail to me and I have urges to treat it as such.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im even considdering buying a cooking timer to warn me when an hour is up.



Fallout 3 has a very pronounced HUD on the bottom of the screen on both sides. However, you can go into the options and completely turn them off (makes it kind of hard since you need your barrings to get around) but it is doable.


----------



## bluesky23

Hello,

I am having my Panny 50pz800u delivered today. I have seen opposing thoughts on breaking in the tv. Some say it needs to be done with a break-in DVD anywhere from 100 to 1000 hours, others say just use your common sense. I am going with a middle of the road approach and will use the DVD for 100 hours while still watching programs and using caution.


My problem is that I can't get the DVD to work. I went to the site recomended on this forum, downloaded the Video_TS files, extracted them, used NERO to burn them to a DVD but when I went to test it out it just gives me a grey screen I can see the DVD playing, numbers advancing, but only get a grey screen. I am using a Toshiba/TiVo DVD player until my new one arrives today. Thanks for any advice!!


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluesky23* /forum/post/15069895
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am having my Panny 50pz800u delivered today. I have seen opposing thoughts on breaking in the tv. Some say it needs to be done with a break-in DVD anywhere from 100 to 1000 hours, others say just use your common sense. I am going with a middle of the road approach and will use the DVD for 100 hours while still watching programs and using caution.
> 
> 
> My problem is that I can't get the DVD to work. I went to the site recomended on this forum, downloaded the Video_TS files, extracted them, used NERO to burn them to a DVD but when I went to test it out it just gives me a grey screen I can see the DVD playing, numbers advancing, but only get a grey screen. I am using a Toshiba/TiVo DVD player until my new one arrives today. Thanks for any advice!!



Panny's and Sammy's would only require ~150 hours to be broken into. Keep your Brightness and Contrast at around 50%. Keep the orbitor on, watch full screen content as much as possible and avoid static logos as much as possble. I would honestly use the Break in DVD as a coaster if i were you.


Truly there is no harm by using it, it's just that it is not required. It is merely a way to speed up the break in process, nothing more, nothing less.


I believe there is a .iso file to download? Better off using that file to burn on a DVD.


Another good program to use other than NERO would be ConvertXtoDvd. It takes many file formats and converts them to DVD format and burns it on DVD.


----------



## Shakespeare

So, do we have any confirmed cases of burn-in on any plasma made in the last two years?


I ask because many people come here with IR situations, even pictures sometimes, but three months later they never comes back and say "yep, here it is three months later...it's burn in." Is it possible that all of the IR problems have been just that, and once it goes away those people never return to say "Oh, it went away after 10 (or 50 or 100) hours of movie viewing."


I'm not saying burn-in can't occur, but under the conditions of anyone who might come to AVS (ie, anyone who doesn't install 3rd gen panels as airport schedule monitors), has there yet been confirmed burn-in in recent plasmas, even those deemed "lower end" by some people?


S


----------



## Sokonomi

Ive played fallout 3 for an hour or so, when I turned off the X360 I did see a faint print of where the HUD used to be, and it kinda freaked me out. But after not even 3 minutes on the break-in DVD its completely gone, undetectable under any condition.


I too think many burn-in cases are just people getting the willies after seeing their new TV show an imprint of something thats not supposed to be there anymore.


Im feeling a little more comfortable playing the same game for an hour now for one.










Theres one thing I do wonder though. How am I supposed to watch a movie or something on the TV network?

I doubt theres any network thats broadcasting without their logo prominently slapped in your face.

Does that mean watching TV broadcast movies or long shows (mythbusters and their lovely Discoverychannel HD icon for one) is off limits?


----------



## dauger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shakespeare* /forum/post/15073568
> 
> 
> So, do we have any confirmed cases of burn-in on any plasma made in the last two years?
> 
> 
> I ask because many people come here with IR situations, even pictures sometimes, but three months later they never comes back and say "yep, here it is three months later...it's burn in." Is it possible that all of the IR problems have been just that, and once it goes away those people never return to say "Oh, it went away after 10 (or 50 or 100) hours of movie viewing."



Case in point: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14856418 


Finalhaven never came back to this thread to let us know if the IR ever went away.


----------



## Catjuggler82

Hi i just bought a panasonic 50pz80u and compared to the other hdtvs i have got, this one by far looks the best. my only problem is im noticing a lot of ir, it goes away but its still scarying me bad! Im doing everything ive found on this site to prevent burn-in and make sure i break it in right, except the breakin dvd.im keeping the brightness and picture setting in the low 40s.the other night i played gears of war2 for like 3 hours and the morning i could still see the hud. All of the ir i noticed has gone away but im still scared. I guess my question is. is this normal, is it only gonna happen for the break in period, or am i gonna have to deal with this the whole time i have the tv. Also does anyone have this tv,do you like. I only have like 20 days to return so im stumped. thanks any replies would be awsome


----------



## Faris Kalin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sokonomi* /forum/post/15073687
> 
> 
> Theres one thing I do wonder though. How am I supposed to watch a movie or something on the TV network?
> 
> I doubt theres any network thats broadcasting without their logo prominently slapped in your face.
> 
> Does that mean watching TV broadcast movies or long shows (mythbusters and their lovely Discoverychannel HD icon for one) is off limits?



I watch all of my tv programming in zoom mode. That cuts off a lot of the logos. I've also decided to stop watching any channels that zoom mode doesn't cut off the logo for. I never liked those huge, obnoxious logos, and I especially don't like having them fill my plasma with IR.


----------



## atlantajoseph




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flip034* /forum/post/14170833
> 
> 
> i have uneven phosfor wear from 4:3 viewing that is noticeable on a very light background. darks are not so bad. my question is this. I have been careful from now on not to view at all with any black or grey bars ect. and have tried various methods like the burn in dvd, pixel protector, and even an inverse pattern 4:3 image. as long as my viewing is constantly full screen now, will my phosfors eventually even out and the light dark contrast go away??



I know you posted this a few months ago, but I am experiencing this exact same issue with my 7-month old Samsung PN58A550.


The pics you posted back on page 20 of this thread look like my tv when a solid white background is displayed. Like you, I have watched a lot of 4:3 material on my tv (mainly sd satellite and classic movies).


Did you ever have any luck with inverse pillar images to even out the phosphor wear? Has anything helped at all?


Anyone else have any insights into this one? Thanks.


----------



## zyxses

I started using my LG plasma "normally" from day one. I never think about IR. When it appears it fades very quickly. People obsess far too much.


----------



## fogey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlantajoseph* /forum/post/15086444
> 
> 
> I know you posted this a few months ago, but I am experiencing this exact same issue with my 7-month old Samsung PN58A550.
> 
> 
> The pics you posted back on page 20 of this thread look like my tv when a solid white background is displayed. Like you, I have watched a lot of 4:3 material on my tv (mainly sd satellite and classic movies).
> 
> 
> Did you ever have any luck with inverse pillar images to even out the phosphor wear? Has anything helped at all?
> 
> 
> Anyone else have any insights into this one? Thanks.



Have you been using gray bars, aka pillarboxes? People say they help. And, by the way, black screen with aspect ratio 4:3 and gray bars turned on could act as inverse pillar image, IMHO.


----------



## atlantajoseph

I have indeed switched to gray pillars and (ugh) stretchy mode for some 4:3 content. I actually ran the gray bars in dynamic mode with a black screen last night. Hasn't fixed the problem but I will repeat until hopefully I see things even out. Are there any potential downsides to employing this method?


----------



## Vegeta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rselah25* /forum/post/15057760
> 
> 
> another good way to get rid of IR is if you have an xbox360 and hook a ipod or put a cd in it or play music some way on it and turn the visual player to full mode and let it run on random for a few hours...gets rid of IR very fast.



I use my Xbox1 with XBMC and visualizer to clear up retention.


Nothing better than listening to music and clearing retention at the same time while watching funky visuals on the screen!


----------



## JakiChan

My friend may be getting a Kuro Elite delivered on Friday. If he does then I'm seriously going to be looking at it to compare it to the XBR6 I just bought (which I've had over a week). My concern is that if he does get it Friday and we get it set up then how much critical viewing "out of the box" can we do? I'm not going to have a lot of time to really figure out if I want to spend another $1500 because I'm not completely thrilled with LCD.


The main thing I'm going to want to do is throw a bit of COD4 up there to see if I'm sensitive to yellow streaking at all. And we're going to want to do some 4:3 SD viewing as well as some daytime TV viewing (I got the XBR6 because I feel it's the best matte screen set you can get - I'm not real fond of reflections). I don't want to break his new TV, but I also hope we can truly get a feel for it on day 1.


----------



## Chaos116886

My friend just started a break in on his 80u and I was wondering if it was normal to see different color lines in between the break in image.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chaos116886* /forum/post/15153856
> 
> 
> My friend just started a break in on his 80u and I was wondering if it was normal to see different color lines in between the break in image.



Is is on an SD card or a DVD?


----------



## mtbsugar

Can someone point me in the right direction as to which version of the Burn-In DVD I need to buy? I will be using an Xbox360. I also dont have the ability to burn a dvd, so I will have to buy using PayPal.


Thanks In Advance


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mtbsugar* /forum/post/15154520
> 
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction as to which version of the Burn-In DVD I need to buy? I will be using an Xbox360. I also dont have the ability to burn a dvd, so I will have to buy using PayPal.
> 
> 
> Thanks In Advance



First, it's a Break-in DVD, not buirn-in. Do you happen to have an SD card around? Easier and better than running a DVD. As for which version, if your'e buying it Evangelos only offers one version I believe.


----------



## Chaos116886




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/15154450
> 
> 
> Is is on an SD card or a DVD?



Its on a DVD. Also note he can only see this when using a camera.


----------



## DaSlowMoseS

This may be a stupid question but I'll try anyway.


I just got my pz80u hooked up last night. I'm watching different channels & not staying on anything to long, keeping the black bars away, overscanned, etc. I don't have any HDMI cables yet, I want to order from bluejeans, but the tv purchase happened faster than I thought it would. My question is there going to be any issues or drawbacks breaking in this 1080p tv only using component cables till my HDMI's arrive?? It may be a week or 2 because of the holiday weekend. Thanks for the info


My neighbors were wanting to hump my tv last night & it only has a few hours on it & still not running 1080p. They have samsung & toshiba DLP.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chaos116886* /forum/post/15155734
> 
> 
> Its on a DVD. Also note he can only see this when using a camera.



Both bad. Not only could the DVD player be doing something but the fact that he can only see it in a photo! The camera is picking up the transitions/scan lines.


----------



## Chaos116886

He is using a TH-42PZ80u with a DMP-BD35 Blu-ray Player. Before he goes any further i had him stop to make sure this doesnt mess anything up seeing as hes less than 50 hrs in. If anyone has any suggestions on how to fix this please respond.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaSlowMoseS* /forum/post/15158556
> 
> 
> My question is there going to be any issues or drawbacks breaking in this 1080p tv only using component cables till my HDMI's arrive??



No.


----------



## DaSlowMoseS

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaSlowMoseS

My question is there going to be any issues or drawbacks breaking in this 1080p tv only using component cables till my HDMI's arrive??



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15160690
> 
> 
> No.



THANKS greenjp!!! About to order my BJC HDMI's


----------



## Anthony1

Quick Break in related question:


I know this was probably answered earlier in the thread, but I havent' read thru this entire thread yet. I'm still in my break-in period. I've been running the break-in dvd for around 80 hours or so, so far. Also, have mixed in a wee bit of TV watching, and some DVD watching. So far, I've zoomed out any 2:35:1 dvd's to completely fill the screen, or I've watched 1:85:1 movies.


Now, once I finally do start using this TV like normal, my question is this. Let's say that I know I'm going to watch a 2 1/2 hour 2:35:1 movie. with the black bars being there for 2 1/2 hours, my question is, after the movie is over, do I need to "immediately" switch to some full screen content, and let it run for awhile, or is it ok to just turn the TV off after watching a really long 2:35:1 movie?


What I mean is, everybody says IR is pretty much temporary, and the best way to get rid of it, is just watching some normal TV that complete fills the screen. But is it wise to do this right after watching a long 2:35:1 movie? Is turning off the TV right after a session like this a bad idea? Obviously, the next time I turn on the TV, I would put it on Discovery HD for a few hours or something like that, but am I risking anything by delaying that for 10 hours? You know, how you watch a long movie, and then afterwards you're tired and you go to sleep.


I'm guessing I could set the sleep timer for 90 minutes, and just put it on Discovery HD, and then go to sleep, but is this taking things overboard or not? I'm just trying to be carefull during the first 200 hours of use. After that, I'm going to try to start using this TV like I've never heard of burn-in and IR and all this crap.


----------



## David Susilo

Nobody needs to go to that extreme. I've been using my plasma for more than 300 movies, mostly 2.35 AR, I don't watch tv, I don't do break-in. Still - see no IR


----------



## RobBas

@Anthony1: I know what your going through, but from posting in my specific TV's thread, I was told as long as you mix your content up you will never have a problem. And oh yeah don't do something silly like leave a menu up or a video game paused for hours on end. From what I can gather after the "break-in" period, with today's plasmas, burn-in/IR is a minor concern. I know its easy saying that, but I am at 88 hours, after today I will be at 100+ and I am going back to my normal TV/Movie/Video games/etc watching, I am tired of being over cautious. I could not even enjoy the last 2 movies we watched because they had black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, this worrying is a bit much and is taking away all the enjoyment from my new beautiful TH-58PZ800U.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony1* /forum/post/15173091
> 
> 
> Quick Break in related question:...
> 
> I'm just trying to be carefull during the first 200 hours of use. After that, I'm going to try to start using this TV like I've never heard of burn-in and IR and all this crap.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobBas* /forum/post/15173602
> 
> 
> ...this worrying is a bit much and is taking away all the enjoyment from my new beautiful TH-58PZ800U.



You're both a bit over concerned (understandably). Follow the break-in FAQ. After that watch what you like however you like. I followed the FAQ to a T. I'm now at what must be well over 1000hrs (I haven't checked in a while) and have had only 2 extremely faint examples of IR that of course disappeared immediately. I watch all content. The only concession I make is I usually adjust 4:3 content (HD or not) to Just mode. Personally I dislike looking at side bars much more than top/bottom bars.


----------



## CaspianM

Using any program as long as there are no logo's/stationary image with contrast down screen filled should be as good as breaking disk. You guys might be a little to concerned.

Some CRT's also require break-in and all is done professionally is displaying all white with low contrast. Just make sure the entire screen area is filled with image and there is no stationary image. I do't even understand why you need to reduce sharpness or color or brightness. The only factor here is contrast level since you want to age the phosphore evenly.


----------



## Musiclaw

I have a Sony Plasma I purchased in 2006, do i need to be concerned with the black bars at the top and bottom when watching movies. In the past I always zoomed the picture to fill in the screen or watched the movie on a non HD input (Ie. S video). However, I recently purchased the Sony Blue Ray Player BDS350 and it seems like all or at least the few Blue ray dvd's I have tried do not fill the screen and I am unable to zoom the picture to do so and even if I can it is my understanding zooming would lose the Blue Ray clarity and hence defeat the purpose of spending the extra $ on BLue Ray. If watching a 2 or even 3 hour movie with black bars could adversely effect my Plasma I am inclined to return my Blue Ray player.


Thank you for any responses.


----------



## CaspianM

As long as you watch full screen materials as well I wouldn't worry about it. Besides your panel is already aged (broken-in) so it shouln't pose any issue.


----------



## kentpowley

I recently wrote an email to the History.com channel regarding their channel logo.

I asked them when they were going to change it to be a translucent design, instead of the high contrast white/yellow/red one they have now.

I also told them that they need to change it to become more plasma hdtv friendly, and that other networks have near-transparent logos.

I also stated that because of their logo, I would cease watching their programming - to save my expensive hdtv investment from image burn-in of their logo.


No reply yet.


There must be a better way to lobby "all" these networks to change their logos to be more plasma-friendly....


----------



## RobBas

With commercials mixed in, is there a serious burn-in/IR issue with channel logos? I hope for my sake this issue is seriously overblown, we have one guy who posted earlier who wants to return his Blu-ray player cause it has top and bottom bars during movies. Man some threads scare people more than help, I am past my 100 hours so I am going to use my TV like a "normal" tv and stop all this worrying. I mean seriously if this was such an issue wouldn't there be a huge uproar about it? The average Joe does not even frequent these forums, and retail chains like BB, CC, etc do not tell consumers about the "break-in" period or burn-in/IR. Heck, my Panasonic manual has a tiny blurb about it on page 1... It's can't be as bad some people make it out to be, else I am screwed lol.


----------



## Anthony1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobBas* /forum/post/15179732
> 
> 
> With commercials mixed in, is there a serious burn-in/IR issue with channel logos? I hope for my sake this issue is seriously overblown, we have one guy who posted earlier who wants to return his Blu-ray player cause it has top and bottom bars during movies. Man some threads scare people more than help, I am past my 100 hours so I am going to use my TV like a "normal" tv and stop all this worrying. I mean seriously if this was such an issue wouldn't there be a huge uproar about it? The average Joe does not even frequent these forums, and retail chains like BB, CC, etc do not tell consumers about the "break-in" period or burn-in/IR. Heck, my Panasonic manual has a tiny blurb about it on page 1... It's can't be as bad some people make it out to be, else I am screwed lol.




Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing, but my brother-in-law has some issues with his plasma, but was never aware of it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I'm sure there are tons of "Joe Sixpack's" out there that have IR, and maybe even some mild burn in, but aren't aware of it. If IR and BI didn't exist anymore, then why is it explained all over the place in my manual that it's not covered under warranty. Sure, the modern day plasmas aren't as prone to it, but it still exists, and the manufacturers don't cover it, and extended warranties don't cover it. I think the real key is to be careful during the first 200 hours, and after that, just don't get stupid with leaving it on History HD all day, or playing COD4 for 12 hours straight, and you'll likely be just fine. I'm right at 100 hours right now, and I'm watching NFL football all day today, and I'm not worrying about it anymore. I'm not going to play any video games till I get to 200 hours, just to be safe, but at this point, I'll watch movies and such and just start enjoying the damn thing.


----------



## VWantsRevenge

I can't get over how ridiculous this plasma IR/BI issue is. I just bought and received the LG 60PG60 from Best Buy on Sat, and I've seen numerous instances of IR with channel logos, score bars on football games, the matte bars on 2.35:1 BD's and countless items on ESPN channels.


I haven't even played any of my 360 or PS3 games for fear of IR.


I think the 200 hr break in period is a joke. Not because you shouldn't take care of your TV, but why the heck should you have to turn your contrast down to under 50% for 200 hours? What fun is that? Obviously the PQ of your TV at that point will be less than desirable and you're going to have to watch it like that for weeks.


I paid a little over 3K for the set and I don't want to sit there and not enjoy my product for a couple of months because I have to worry about ESPN burning into my screen or my COD WAW hud staying on forever.


Nowhere does it state anything about break in periods or temporary IR in the instruction manual. It amazes me that I don't hear more about this outside of HT forums since Joe Six Pack has no idea about stuff like this. A normal consumer would NEVER know to "break in" their plasmas for 200 hours. No one should ever have to go to that extreme.


I knew when I went for the plasma there would be some IR issues, but I never dreamed it would be this serious and this crazy to deal with. I don't want to have to always sit around and be concerned about content I watch. To me, that's just dumb. If I buy any kind of TV I should be able to take it out of the box and enjoy whatever I want from day one. I have a 60" SXRD and a 42" LCD as well, but I don't want to have to use one of them for a dedicated game machine or whatever. That's what the centerpiece TV in the living room is supposed to be for. Not now though, since I have the temperamental plasma princess.


I think the LG might be going back for a 65" LCD which I won't have near as much to worry about. Ghosting is for the birds


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VWantsRevenge* /forum/post/15183845
> 
> 
> I can't get over how ridiculous this plasma IR/BI issue is. I just bought and received the LG 60PG60 from Best Buy on Sat, and I've seen numerous instances of IR with channel logos, score bars on football games, the matte bars on 2.35:1 BD's and countless items on ESPN channels.
> 
> 
> I haven't even played any of my 360 or PS3 games for fear of IR.
> 
> 
> I think the 200 hr break in period is a joke. Not because you shouldn't take care of your TV, but why the heck should you have to turn your contrast down to under 50% for 200 hours? What fun is that? Obviously the PQ of your TV at that point will be less than desirable and you're going to have to watch it like that for weeks.
> 
> 
> I paid a little over 3K for the set and I don't want to sit there and not enjoy my product for a couple of months because I have to worry about ESPN burning into my screen or my COD WAW hud staying on forever.
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it state anything about break in periods or temporary IR in the instruction manual. It amazes me that I don't hear more about this outside of HT forums since Joe Six Pack has no idea about stuff like this. A normal consumer would NEVER know to "break in" their plasmas for 200 hours. No one should ever have to go to that extreme.
> 
> 
> I knew when I went for the plasma there would be some IR issues, but I never dreamed it would be this serious and this crazy to deal with. I don't want to have to always sit around and be concerned about content I watch. To me, that's just dumb. If I buy any kind of TV I should be able to take it out of the box and enjoy whatever I want from day one. I have a 60" SXRD and a 42" LCD as well, but I don't want to have to use one of them for a dedicated game machine or whatever. That's what the centerpiece TV in the living room is supposed to be for. Not now though, since I have the temperamental plasma princess.
> 
> 
> I think the LG might be going back for a 65" LCD which I won't have near as much to worry about. Ghosting is for the birds



Couldn't agree more. I can assure you after having one I will NEVER own another plasma. I didn't buy a TV to haft to baby it. I didn't buy a TV so I can wonder if that station logo has been there too long or if my game HUD has been on too long.


----------



## Zookster

I just got my 46" Panny 800u yesterday, read many of these threads on BI/IR, and have decided to take the "middle path." I'll keep contrast down at 50 (halfway) and pretty much watch anything I want and play any games I want. I will just avoid bars on the top/bottom/sides of the screen for more than the length of a commercial break for the first 100 hours. I'll also zoom out sports tickers and score boards during football broadcasts (or vid games) when they don't disappear during replays and other breaks in the action. Otherwise I'll let them be. I'll also avoid/zoom out opaque logos as much as possible, but not obsessively. If I notice any hints of IR, I'll reasses my strategy. THERE'S JUST NO WAY IN HECK I'M GOING TO NOT ENJOY THIS TV FOR THE FIRST WEEK OR SO!


Interestingly, my GF brought up a valid point: wouldn't it be more potentially damaging to run a brand new TV 24/7 to get through the break-in period faster than it is to mix it up with various content and watch at a more normal pace?


----------



## Steve Ruddy

I'm purchasing a Pioneer Pro 101FD and am having it calibrated. I was told by the calibrator to run a solid white field from video essentials in movie mode at 50% contrast 50% brightness for 40-100 hours before anything. He said this will essentially eliminate burn in and weed out a bad set. Any arguments or potential problems with this method? What about black level after all that white image?


----------



## Anthony1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VWantsRevenge* /forum/post/15183845
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it state anything about break in periods or temporary IR in the instruction manual. It amazes me that I don't hear more about this outside of HT forums since Joe Six Pack has no idea about stuff like this. A normal consumer would NEVER know to "break in" their plasmas for 200 hours. No one should ever have to go to that extreme.




No manual is going to talk about a 100 to 200 hour break in period. It would scare away too many casual consumers. My manual does talk about temporary IR in a few places. Saying that it's normal, and show go away after a brief period of time.


As for the Joe Sixpacks', the funny thing is, they are the ones most likely to have IR,BI issues, but they are also the ones least likely to realize it.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve Ruddy* /forum/post/15184329
> 
> 
> I'm purchasing a Pioneer Pro 101FD and am having it calibrated. I was told by the calibrator to run a solid white field from video essentials in movie mode at 50% contrast 50% brightness for 40-100 hours before anything. He said this will essentially eliminate burn in and weed out a bad set. Any arguments or potential problems with this method? What about black level after all that white image?



Is this guy even an ISF certified calibrator? heck... is this guy even a calibrator?










There is no need to do that AT ALL, especially with the PRO-101. These units have been pre-aged at the factory level.


PM me if you need more info.


----------



## Steve Ruddy




> Is this guy even an ISF certified calibrator? heck... is this guy even a calibrator?
> 
> 
> There is no need to do that AT ALL, especially with the PRO-101. These units have been pre-aged at the factory level.
> 
> 
> PM me if you need more info.
> 
> __________________/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Yes he is ISF certified. He has been doing it for at least 10 years as he did the Sony Wega XBR HDTV monitor we are just now replacing. So in you opinion this recommendation would be of no benefit?


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve Ruddy* /forum/post/15184862
> 
> 
> So in you opinion this recommendation would be of no benefit?



1. exactly, there is no benefit in doing this. You may want to check running completely white screen, completely R, G, and B screens too to check for dead/stuck pixels, but running just white for all that time is really pointless


2. I don't mean any disrespect but there are too many old-school ISF calibrators from the CRT times that don't keep up with the technology (that's why I take refresher courses from time to time). I know a calibrator who kicks butt with CRT but can't get plasma right. I also know a kick-butt LCD calibrator but can't get plasma right (and vice versa in all instances). Of course, I also know ISF calibrators who can calibrate any kind of technology really well.


----------



## VWantsRevenge

As stated above, I received my LG 60PG60 on Saturday, and have been getting all kinds of annoyances from it...


This issue popped up tonight as I was watching THE FOUNTAIN BD on a Sony BDP-S350 through HDMI at 1080/24p.


In the first picture, notice the strange "wash out/marking" near the left corner and the other in the middle. Faint with the picture I know.


The second is closer up of the marking on the left side of the screen.


Terribly noticeable with the naked eye, and also noticeable during any panning sequence of any input be it TV, DVD or BD.


I have no idea what this is, if it will go away, or if this is now become the sole reason to return it other than my overall dissatisfaction with any and all IR problems.


----------



## David Susilo

they look like interference lines.


----------



## VWantsRevenge

Interference from what? Or are you talking about the thicker black lines waved through the picture. That's not what I'm referring to, rather the whitish blobbed peak nearer to the left corner and again near the center.


Below the TV on the second shelf is a Monster Power Center, B&W center channel and the Sony BDP.


My Yamaha AVR is on a separate stand some two ft away and there's nothing else near it.


On the third shelf under the center is my Dish receiver, HD-DVD player and next to that is my all region dvd player.


Could it be from the center??


----------



## David Susilo

Yup, I'm talking about the white lines. Just for experiment purpose, get rid of the Monster Power Center (most likely culprit) and just run one HDMI from the BDP to the TV, I'm almost certain the lines will disappear. The less likely culprit it the BDP. The power transformer on that thing, however, is so tiny it shouldn't pose any problem.


Your centre channel should be magnetically shielded no? If yes then it'll be the most unlikely source of interference.


----------



## RobBas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony1* /forum/post/15184417
> 
> 
> No manual is going to talk about a 100 to 200 hour break in period. It would scare away too many casual consumers. My manual does talk about temporary IR in a few places. Saying that it's normal, and show go away after a brief period of time.



Maybe, just maybe, for newer models its no longer the concern that it once was?... seriously why have a plasma when this horrible burn-in/IR beast will ruin your entire viewing experience.



> Quote:
> As for the Joe Sixpacks', the funny thing is, they are the ones most likely to have IR,BI issues, but they are also the ones least likely to realize it.



As someone stated above, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Why take the time to look for negatives instead of enjoying your TV. What possible enjoyment can come out of worry about every little channel logo, black bar, oh crap I left the menu on while I went to get a drink...


This thread is out of control. I can't believe that this issue is as bad as some people make it out to be, I guess I will find out in time. I am past my break-in period, I am not going to spend anymore time worrying about this issue.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15186126
> 
> 
> Yup, I'm talking about the white lines. Just for experiment purpose, get rid of the Monster Power Center (most likely culprit) and just run one HDMI from the BDP to the TV, I'm almost certain the lines will disappear. The less likely culprit it the BDP. The power transformer on that thing, however, is so tiny it shouldn't pose any problem.
> 
> 
> Your centre channel should be magnetically shielded no? If yes then it'll be the most unlikely source of interference.



Why Monster Power Center would do that unless it is a defective unit that he might have? My guess would be his line with improper grounding or just bad TV set.

All white pattern is nothing more all three color combined. Why it wouldn't do anything in your opinion AFA break-in a phosphor based panel?


----------



## Apollyon

I have a break-in question.


I just recently purchased a Samsung 42" 720p plasma (PN-42A400). I currently only have a standard DVD player that is not progressive scan (Panasonic DVD-RV32K) that I will be hooking up via component cable. Will this have any significant impact on the effectiveness of running any of the break-in DVDs?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Apollyon* /forum/post/15187406
> 
> 
> I have a break-in question.
> 
> 
> I just recently purchased a Samsung 42" 720p plasma (PN-42A400). I currently only have a standard DVD player that is not progressive scan (Panasonic DVD-RV32K) that I will be hooking up via component cable. Will this have any significant impact on the effectiveness of running any of the break-in DVDs?



It should work. All you care is to give the ENTIRE panel a work out so avoid black bars and stationary texts or logos.


----------



## 19Bones

I bought a Panasonic 50" plasma this fall (model TH50PZ850U). After displaying shows/games with static images I often see a ghost image of after switching inputs to display a black screen. This goes away after a minute or two of moving images. Sometimes the ghost image is of something that was only displayed for a few seconds. Is this normal, or am I not taking proper care of my new HDTV? I have about 120 hours on the TV.


I find myself very nervous about burn-in and avoid watching any widescreen movies that would display the letterbox bars and usually watch sports with the picture zoomed in to avoid the display of static images. Am I being way too careful here?


----------



## Shakespeare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *19Bones* /forum/post/15188144
> 
> 
> I bought a Panasonic 50" plasma this fall (model TH50PZ850U). After displaying shows/games with static images I often see a ghost image of after switching inputs to display a black screen. This goes away after a minute or two of moving images. Sometimes the ghost image is of something that was only displayed for a few seconds. Is this normal, or am I not taking proper care of my new HDTV? I have about 120 hours on the TV.
> 
> 
> I find myself very nervous about burn-in and avoid watching any widescreen movies that would display the letterbox bars and usually watch sports with the picture zoomed in to avoid the display of static images. Am I being way too careful here?



I'm in the same boat with my PZ80u, which I've had for two months and has about 200 hours on it. I can play Halo 2 for an hour and there will be no IR of the hud...but the loading screen (white on a black background) is on for 45 seconds and can cause the worst IR. The scrolling bar wipes it away after about 2 wipes. It's a bit disconcerting, but as long as it goes away, I'm fine.


S


----------



## David Susilo

to put it simply, once you've done proper calibration for your TV (Panasonics and Pioneers), I've yet to see long-lasting IR (let alone burn-in) on any of their TVs manufactured in the past 2-3 years.


----------



## patrick.noonan

Personally I spent many hours reading through the forums on here hoping to learn exactly what to do with a new plasma, and there is certainly no fully agreed upon method for the break-in period. I, like many people who have the "better safe than sorry" perspective, decided that I would take a somewhat conservative approach. So I ended up putting the "Picture" (contrast) setting and the "Brightness" setting down to "50" and just let the TV run full screen content via cable (channels like TNT without solid logo displayed) and dvds for about 150 hours. I just used general common sense in terms of turning it off every once in awhile for a few hours so it wasn't just constantly running. After the 150 hours I finally allowed myself to play some video games and play around with the settings and have had no problems whatsoever with burn-in. Whenever the TV is run for hours at a time now I just run the "Scrolling Bar" feature which lasts about 15 minutes and that's it. To sum it up I didn't find it that hard to deny myself the instant gratification during the "break-in" period. Maybe for some people that is a big deal, in which case maybe plasma isn't the best choice, but then again there are plenty of people who swear the break in period is completely useless in the first place. But my intention behind this post is to report a "success story" of sorts using the method I described. The TV is at 500+ hours now and no IR, I watch football games, play video games, and watch cable with static logos, I just habitually run the scrolling bar when I'm finished.


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *patrick.noonan* /forum/post/15189410
> 
> 
> Personally I spent many hours reading through the forums on here hoping to learn exactly what to do with a new plasma, and there is certainly no fully agreed upon method for the break-in period. I, like many people who have the "better safe than sorry" perspective, decided that I would take a somewhat conservative approach. So I ended up putting the "Picture" (contrast) setting and the "Brightness" setting down to "50" and just let the TV run full screen content via cable (channels like TNT without solid logo displayed) and dvds for about 150 hours. I just used general common sense in terms of turning it off every once in awhile for a few hours so it wasn't just constantly running. After the 150 hours I finally allowed myself to play some video games and play around with the settings and have had no problems whatsoever with burn-in. Whenever the TV is run for hours at a time now I just run the "Scrolling Bar" feature which lasts about 15 minutes and that's it. To sum it up I didn't find it that hard to deny myself the instant gratification during the "break-in" period. Maybe for some people that is a big deal, in which case maybe plasma isn't the best choice, but then again there are plenty of people who swear the break in period is completely useless in the first place. But my intention behind this post is to report a "success story" of sorts using the method I described. The TV is at 500+ hours now and no IR, I watch football games, play video games, and watch cable with static logos, I just habitually run the scrolling bar when I'm finished.



I'm curious why you feel the need to run the scrolling bar every time you watch TV for an extended period...especially if you, as you said, did the recommended break in procedure suggested by some in these forums and aren't seeing any IR. (Or are you before running the bar?) My understanding is that the scrolling bar (is this a Panny?) is the last ditch procedure for erasing any residual images that don't immediately go away after changing what you had been watching. Does anyone know if excessive use of the scrolling bar is potentially damaging, at the very least in the sense that it could eventually lose its effectiveness?


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15189379
> 
> 
> to put it simply, once you've done proper calibration for your TV (Panasonics and Pioneers), I've yet to see long-lasting IR (let alone burn-in) on any of their TVs manufactured in the past 2-3 years.



David, Thanks for monitoring this forum and addressing the concerns of us newer plasma owners.


By "proper" callibration do you mean not watching with the brightness and contrast cranked up all the time, or of the more professional (or DIY for those who can) variety?


I have a Panny 800u with the THX callibration. Would that be considered "proper", at least in regards to IR issues, though not necessarily in terms of best PQ (as many have debated in another thread)?


Also, during the break in period, how important do you feel it is to avoid any and all static network logos/score boxes, even if just for 5-10 mins in between commercial breaks and contrast levels kept down?

Thanks


----------



## VWantsRevenge




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15186126
> 
> 
> Yup, I'm talking about the white lines. Just for experiment purpose, get rid of the Monster Power Center (most likely culprit) and just run one HDMI from the BDP to the TV, I'm almost certain the lines will disappear. The less likely culprit it the BDP. The power transformer on that thing, however, is so tiny it shouldn't pose any problem.
> 
> 
> Your centre channel should be magnetically shielded no? If yes then it'll be the most unlikely source of interference.



I removed the Monster Power Center and plugged everything into a different, high powered/shielded powerstick and the "blooming" white smudges are still there.


Now, tonight, one has appeared in the top portion of the screen right above the one on the bottom left. This leads me to believe it's a problem with the screen since it's not a retained image and does not disappear over time.


----------



## David Susilo

Wow! that's bad luck! If that's the case, it seems like you have a botched panel.


----------



## RobBas

Apologies if this has been posted but good, and up-to-date info on burn-in/IR:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6844370-1.html 


Hopefully it helps with the paranoia some of us have, including myself


----------



## Ranelar

So, I did 100 hours of the break-in images, but I did it with my settings at 50 (should I have done it with max?). Anyway, if there's a static image on my screen for a few minutes (gaming in default gaming mode), or if I watch a movie with black bars (in cinema mode), I get IR on my 42px80u. I don't get it. Running the panny's anti-IR white bar gets rid of it after a few minutes, but is this normal? Am I doomed to zoomed in movies and gaming with settings at 50? What should I do?


----------



## VWantsRevenge

My LG 60PG60 is going back to Best Buy, and I bought the Sharp LC-65SE94U 65" LCD which was the set I wanted to begin with but didn't think I could afford.


I have to say the LG had a beautiful, rich picture, but with all the hassles of the constant IR on my Dish menus, 2.35/2.4:1 software, video games and even commercial pillarboxes I couldn't imagine living with that headache for life of the TV. Nor was keeping up with how many hours I had on it and the tremendous amount of wattage that puppy sucked up, plasma is just not for me.


I warn anyone who goes in, spend the extra dough if you really just have to have plasma on Pioneer and some Panasonics. Still will deal with IR, but it's less of a headstrain on those sets.


To me, ANY amount of IR in this day and age is ridiculous. I had such a hard time dealing with a $3K television that I had to babysit. Not for me.


----------



## RaiderRodney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ranelar* /forum/post/15203057
> 
> 
> So, I did 100 hours of the break-in images, but I did it with my settings at 50 (should I have done it with max?). Anyway, if there's a static image on my screen for a few minutes (gaming in default gaming mode), or if I watch a movie with black bars (in cinema mode), I get IR on my 42px80u. I don't get it. Running the panny's anti-IR white bar gets rid of it after a few minutes, but is this normal? Am I doomed to zoomed in movies and gaming with settings at 50? What should I do?



You should just enjoy your new set. My Panny gets some IR after only a few minutes on the PS3 menu screen or gaming...after a few minutes it's gone. Don't sweat it too much...it is a plasma so it's going to have a little IR. Unless you plan on leaving for vacation and leave a game paused for a few weeks I don't think you have too much to be concerned about


----------



## RobBas

I think people, including myself at the start of this, use the words burn-in and IR in the same context. They are two completely different things. One is temporary, IR, which is of little concern and the other one, burn-in, is permanent. The latter in newer plasma's is virtually non-existent, while the former, depending on your set, may or may not be as prevalent. In any case, IR should not be a concern, as it is temporary, so why sweat it? And burn-in, seriously, you would have to leave your set on with a static image for a day to possibly have this.


One question I do have is do sets become less or more prone to IR with age? The whole point to the break-in period is to allow the phosphorous to age evenly to prevent IR, so I assume that means the more you use your set the less IR is possible, or does it get to a point where the phosphorous is aged and it's just a limitation of the technology?


----------



## WilliamR

I game on my Pioneer Kuro daily. I also play PC games on it. I played neverwinter nights 2 for 5 hours. This has massive amounts of static images that never leave the screen. Bright health bars and various things on the bottom. No IR whatsoever. I honestly believe some TV's suffer from IR more then others.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ranelar* /forum/post/15203057
> 
> 
> So, I did 100 hours of the break-in images, but I did it with my settings at 50 (should I have done it with max?). Anyway, if there's a static image on my screen for a few minutes (gaming in default gaming mode), or if I watch a movie with black bars (in cinema mode), I get IR on my 42px80u. I don't get it. Running the panny's anti-IR white bar gets rid of it after a few minutes, but is this normal? Am I doomed to zoomed in movies and gaming with settings at 50? What should I do?



Just relax and enjoy your TV. I've had a Panasonic 42px60u for over two and a half years. It has IR after watching a BD with black bars or viewing high contrast static images but it goes away in less than a minute, it isn't a problem. I also have a 50pz800u that I bought a month ago that I haven't noticed any IR on yet, I haven't tried any gaming yet though.


----------



## thedoctor29

Hi I just purchased a TH42PZ80U and have been watching tv in zoom with lowerd brightness and color settings. ive been running the break in dvd and low pinks to oranges i can see a bar coming down on the right sdie of the screen probly 3 inches thick its a little dimmer than its surroundings. wil this go away has anybody else had a problem similar to this?




I only notice it while playing the break in dvd when its on pinks low oranges and sometimes on a green

the bar seems to be a shade lighter in pinks/oranges but a lil darker in the green


somebody told me to scrap the break in dvd

okay I just might do that only downside is its first 100 hours of break-in will be slow cause i was running the break in disc as much as possible. also a little note. this discoloration bar isnt center but a little to the right of the center and about 3-4 inches wide running veritical. if it shows while watching tv i cannot tell it does not catch the eye.


i price checked the same model on cyber monday at the same locations i was looking to buy and they both jacked it up. one did 100 other 300


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thedoctor29* /forum/post/15207973
> 
> 
> Hi I just purchased a TH42PZ80U and have been watching tv in zoom with lowerd brightness and color settings. ive been running the break in dvd and low pinks to oranges i can see a bar coming down on the right sdie of the screen probly 3 inches thick its a little dimmer than its surroundings. wil this go away has anybody else had a problem similar to this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only notice it while playing the break in dvd when its on pinks low oranges and sometimes on a green
> 
> the bar seems to be a shade lighter in pinks/oranges but a lil darker in the green
> 
> 
> somebody told me to scrap the break in dvd
> 
> okay I just might do that only downside is its first 100 hours of break-in will be slow cause i was running the break in disc as much as possible. also a little note. this discoloration bar isnt center but a little to the right of the center and about 3-4 inches wide running veritical. if it shows while watching tv i cannot tell it does not catch the eye.




Did you check to see how the break-in images look on another display (computer/TV) using another source/dvd player?


----------



## thedoctor29

no i have not

but i downloaded mine from http://www.eaprogramming.com/ so I assume everyone would have reported this.


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thedoctor29* /forum/post/15208902
> 
> 
> no i have not
> 
> but i downloaded mine from http://www.eaprogramming.com/ so I assume everyone would have reported this.



If you're viewing the break-in images through anything other than your plasma's SD card slot, especially if you burned them to a disc, there could be other elements in the line affecting PQ, including the disc, cables, connections or the DVD player itself.


BTW, I downloaded my break-in images from the same Web site and put them on an SD card, but only have 5 shades each of gray, red, blue, green...no orange or pink. What are you using?


Also, if you have satellite or cable HD service, try running Discovery's HD Theater channel for your break in period. They don't put static logos on that channel for extended periods of time (only a minute or two at a time) and all programs (except some commercials) are full screen.


----------



## hammondc

is there a way to check hours of use on the panasonic 58PZ800U?


----------



## thedoctor29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zookster* /forum/post/15210598
> 
> 
> If you're viewing the break-in images through anything other than your plasma's SD card slot, especially if you burned them to a disc, there could be other elements in the line affecting PQ, including the disc, cables, connections or the DVD player itself.
> 
> 
> BTW, I downloaded my break-in images from the same Web site and put them on an SD card, but only have 5 shades each of gray, red, blue, green...no orange or pink. What are you using?
> 
> 
> Also, if you have satellite or cable HD service, try running Discovery's HD Theater channel for your break in period. They don't put static logos on that channel for extended periods of time (only a minute or two at a time) and all programs (except some commercials) are full screen.



well it could be a very light shade of red. im kidna color blind so im sure its part red. my wife was able to see it as well ill try n run it again and ask her what color it is










zOOKSTER. DID YOU DOWNLOAD THE VIDEO_TS ?

sorry for caps


ok this is what the wife said:

The screen was red & the discoloration was a faint red/white.


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thedoctor29* /forum/post/15216296
> 
> 
> well it could be a very light shade of red. im kidna color blind so im sure its part red. my wife was able to see it as well ill try n run it again and ask her what color it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zOOKSTER. DID YOU DOWNLOAD THE VIDEO_TS ?
> 
> sorry for caps
> 
> 
> ok this is what the wife said:
> 
> The screen was red & the discoloration was a faint red/white.



I did the ISO Download to just get the images that I can put on an SD card.


----------



## nywst

Break in dummy questions.


Hi all,


I just got Panasonic 42px80u, and like to run the break-in.

questions:


1. I will download and burn into DVD from:
http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


Is it OK?


2. How long do I have to keep playing the break in DVD? I heard it's 100+ hrs. If so, I shouldn't turn off the TV, correct?


Thanks a lot for any comments!


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nywst* /forum/post/15217990
> 
> 
> Break in dummy questions.
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I just got Panasonic 42px80u, and like to run the break-in.
> 
> questions:
> 
> 
> 1. I will download and burn into DVD from:
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> Is it OK?
> 
> 
> 2. How long do I have to keep playing the break in DVD? I heard it's 100+ hrs. If so, I shouldn't turn off the TV, correct?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for any comments!



Recommended break in period for a plasma is 100 hours, whether you use a break -in DVD or watch any other full screen programming. The key is, avoid static graphics/logos for extended periods of time or 4:3 programming or DVDs with a 2.40:1 aspect ratio (letterboxed). Some panels are more suseptible to IR (temporary image retention) than others, but permenant burn-in is rare unless you abuse the set. Just be careful during the first 100 hours to ensure even phosphor wear.


How long you leave your TV on is up to you. I personally would not run a brand new TV 24/7, but that's just me, and I'm little more patient than some. I'm at about 60 hours with my new plasma, averaging 10-12 hours/day since I got it on Saturday.


----------



## thedoctor29

okay I ran the dvd on my old LCD that got replaced by the plasma and the lines came up. so either its a bad dvd or bad files. anybody else with the video_ts dvd noticing this?


----------



## kelladros

So about 30 pages ago, people were posting that Panasonic already does a 100 hour break-in before shipping them out, anyone ever followed up on this? PZ80U here.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nywst* /forum/post/15217990
> 
> 
> Break in dummy questions.
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I just got Panasonic 42px80u, and like to run the break-in.
> 
> questions:
> 
> 
> 1. I will download and burn into DVD from:
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> Is it OK?
> 
> 
> 2. How long do I have to keep playing the break in DVD? I heard it's 100+ hrs. If so, I shouldn't turn off the TV, correct?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for any comments!



Read the Break-in FAQ.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kelladros* /forum/post/15220617
> 
> 
> So about 30 pages ago, people were posting that Panasonic already does a 100 hour break-in before shipping them out, anyone ever followed up on this? PZ80U here.



Not determined. It's a moot point though, it's only 100hrs, why not do it?


----------



## RYAXIN

In reference to the Break In file (.ISO)


Here is the link to the .ISO file: http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa..._DVD_R_ISO.zip


----------



## CaspianM

I just accidently found out while surfing the service that the 85U has patterns to aid break-in but they are not user's accessible.


----------



## Chuck4321

Can a person get IR from the break-in DVD color-screen images? I'm among the paranoid, and these posts seem to say don't sweat it, but here's my story.

Bought a Samsung PN42A400, last Monday, downloaded the burnin DVD disk from here and began running it. First day, ran the DVD overnight but the player apparently stopped, leaving a white screen for 2-3 hours. Since then, the screen (power off) is whiter than when I brought it home. Is this IR? Hope it's not burn-in(!) Will it go away naturally? Should I use the DVD again right away or wait until the whiteness disappears?

One other possible reason for the oddity. I have the DVD player hooked up through our VCR, (yes, I'm just entering the 21st century), so the cables into the TV are RCA audio L/R and a single video (into the component green jack, right?) Is this a problem for the DVD break-in? Should I get component video cables to break this in best?

Thanks for help and hints!


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuck4321* /forum/post/15229180
> 
> 
> Can a person get IR from the break-in DVD color-screen images? I'm among the paranoid, and these posts seem to say don't sweat it, but here's my story.
> 
> Bought a Samsung PN42A400, last Monday, downloaded the burnin DVD disk from here and began running it. First day, ran the DVD overnight but the player apparently stopped, leaving a white screen for 2-3 hours. Since then, the screen (power off) is whiter than when I brought it home. Is this IR? Hope it's not burn-in(!) Will it go away naturally? Should I use the DVD again right away or wait until the whiteness disappears?
> 
> One other possible reason for the oddity. I have the DVD player hooked up through our VCR, (yes, I'm just entering the 21st century), so the cables into the TV are RCA audio L/R and a single video (into the component green jack, right?) Is this a problem for the DVD break-in? Should I get component video cables to break this in best?
> 
> Thanks for help and hints!



You can also run the scrolling white bars. The full white and full black excite the plasma phosphor cells to their maximum potential and therefore break in the DVD just as fine as the BI DVD. Keep the scrolling feature run overnight, you should definately see an improvement by the following morning.


----------



## fatbottom

It's strange how some people running in there TV with a break in DVD cause more damage than just using the TV normally. That's three people with screenburn so far.


----------



## RobBas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15230812
> 
> 
> It's strange how some people running in there TV with a break in DVD cause more damage than just using the TV normally. That's three people with screenburn so far.



While this thread may have had good intentions, right now it is doing nothing but adding to the paranoia of what _used_ to be a serious concern. Although I am at 150 hours, I still get a little anxious when watching the History channel, certain movies with the black bars, and while gaming. The paranoia is subsiding as I see no traces of IR, let alone burn-in. Funny thing is I bought a 42" plasma a while back, knew nothing of burn-in or IR, and the TV is perfectly fine with no break in and watching content with black bars. As someone told me, mix up the content you view, and you will never have a problem.


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15230812
> 
> 
> It's strange how some people running in there TV with a break in DVD cause more damage than just using the TV normally. That's three people with screenburn so far.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobBas* /forum/post/15230916
> 
> 
> While this thread may have had good intentions, right now it is doing nothing but adding to the paranoia of what _used_ to be a serious concern. Although I am at 150 hours, I still get a little anxious when watching the History channel, certain movies with the black bars, and while gaming. The paranoia is subsiding as I see no traces of IR, let alone burn-in. Funny thing is I bought a 42" plasma a while back, knew nothing of burn-in or IR, and the TV is perfectly fine with no break in and watching content with black bars. As someone told me, mix up the content you view, and you will never have a problem.



Both of these statements are misleading and frankly not fair.


It's true, the newest generation of plasmas have virtually no IR and extremely robust Burn-in resistance.


That said, intimating that running a break-in routine will actually increase chances of burn-in is irresponsible. Furthermore, there is no doubt that the phosphors in plasma technology do age, what harm can there be in an initial break-in period where that aging is as even as possible? To say the thread is doing nothing but adding to paranoia is hyperbole.


I followed the Break-in procedure and have never looked back. I'm never anxious about my display, I watch all content, my son games, etc. We've had a small handful of minor IR and obviously no Burn-in.


An ounce of prevention.....


----------



## bloomcounty

Just a few simple questions...










I'm probably getting a *Panasonic 50PZ800U*. I don't plan on running a break-in dvd, but will just watch 1.85:1 content for the first 100 hours (I guess). Mainly for the even burn of the phosphors more so than image retention. But I will eventually be watching a lot of 2.35:1 and 4:3 (center screen with bars on side) content.

*1.* Are there suggested settings for this display for "break-in"?

*2.* Should you not adjust your settings with Bluray DVD Essentials or something like that until after the 100 hour break-in period? Or can you do it right away? (If it's right away, then that would mean the answer to #1 is "no", right?)

*3.* Is it okay to watch the occasional 2.35:1 (with bars at top/bottom) in the first 100 hours, or are we talking strict "fill the screen" content only?

*4.* Same question as #3, but with 4:3 content.
*

5.* Is there a certain "mode" you should keep it in for the first 100 hours? (This is related to Question #1.)


Thanks!


----------



## RobBas

I was not saying that one should not run the break in DVD, or not err on the side of caution for the first 100 hours. But some of these posts scare people to the point where they would probably not buy a plasma if they had to do it again. I am a lot more educated now about burn-in and IR, but if I had read this thread prior to buying a plasma, I would have went with the Samsung 9 series LCD. Which would have meant me missing out on the amazing picture my Panny gives me. People just need to know be careful for the first 100 hours, follow the faq and enjoy the TV







A little common sense goes a long way.


@bloomcounty: check out the faq, answers most of your questions and some.


----------



## CaspianM

I have downloaded the ISO files but not sure how to convert them to jpeg and transfer them to memory card. Is there any instruction somewhere?


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15233753
> 
> 
> I have downloaded the ISO files but not sure how to convert them to jpeg and transfer them to memory card. Is there any instruction somewhere?



I have an 800u and simply moved the ISO images into the root folder of a 2GB SD card. Popped it in to the Panny and followed the set's directions to run a continuous slide show. For someone with as little experience as I have with photocards, the process couldn't have been smoother.


----------



## Buckeye911

I didn't bother with break-in on my 50pz800u except for watching everything in the default THX setting and filling the screen for the first 50 hours. For the next 50 hours I started watching HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs with black bars. After 100 total hours I started tweaking my settings and switched my settings to Custom mode for daytime viewing and tweaked the THX mode for evening viewing. It's been a little over a month and I haven't seen a hint of IR.


----------



## CBRYDR

Is looping the break-in images via DVD a feature through the DVD player or through the TV? I have a PZ85U and was wondering...Because I think I can connect my Macbook to the TV and run the images through iPhoto on a continuous loop. THe question is would I want to have them running of my laptop for 12 hrs straight at a time?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zookster* /forum/post/15233805
> 
> 
> I have an 800u and simply moved the ISO images into the root folder of a 2GB SD card. Popped it in to the Panny and followed the set's directions to run a continuous slide show. For someone with as little experience as I have with photocards, the process couldn't have been smoother.



I will try that. Thanks


----------



## CBRYDR

I downloaded the Break In images off Evangelo's website and curious to know what the "Thumbs.db" file is all about? Is it an application that allows for the looping? Thanks


----------



## David Susilo

you can delete that. It's a thumbnail database file recognized by Windows.


----------



## CBRYDR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15240489
> 
> 
> you can delete that. It's a thumbnail database file recognized by Windows.



Ok, thanks.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zookster* /forum/post/15233805
> 
> 
> I have an 800u and simply moved the ISO images into the root folder of a 2GB SD card. Popped it in to the Panny and followed the set's directions to run a continuous slide show. For someone with as little experience as I have with photocards, the process couldn't have been smoother.



When zipped the iso all I have is .ts files not jpeg.

Panny did not even recognise the .ts files so I have no idea how yours played the .ts files.

Could someone post a link as how to convert the iso files to jpeg

or is there a jpeg version that I can download?


----------



## CBRYDR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15240489
> 
> 
> you can delete that. It's a thumbnail database file recognized by Windows.



Ok, I got an update. So I purchased an SD reader/writer from BB and I'm using a 512MB Sandisk SD card. I hooked up the r/w to my Macbook, downloaded the Break-in images to the SD card, and popped the card into my PZ85U. When the card reads, it reads an additional 5 files as an "Error", prompting the screen with an "Cannot read file" message.


To be specific, it does this after every actual image.


Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15242474
> 
> 
> When zipped the iso all I have is .ts files not jpeg.
> 
> Panny did not even recognise the .ts files so I have no idea how yours played the .ts files.
> 
> Could someone post a link as how to convert the iso files to jpeg
> 
> or is there a jpeg version that I can download?



refer to my post# 1077

there you can download the .ISO file via the link I have provided.



Once downloaded and the zip file is run, you will have two files.


EA_BREAKIN_DVD.ISO


EA_BREAKIN_DVD.MDS.


----------



## mj8

I should be getting my PN58A650 this week and want to start off on the right foot. With that being said, I have read through the majority of this thread and seem to be a bit confused. I just downloaded the "break in file.iso" from post #1077 I will burn that to a DVD and just loop that on my DVD player....is this sufficient or should I be doing something in combination with that?


----------



## Zookster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15242474
> 
> 
> When zipped the iso all I have is .ts files not jpeg.
> 
> Panny did not even recognise the .ts files so I have no idea how yours played the .ts files.
> 
> Could someone post a link as how to convert the iso files to jpeg
> 
> or is there a jpeg version that I can download?



That's odd. I just checked my files and none of them have a file extension like .ts, but they all say JPG as the file type. I'm pretty sure I simply downloaded them from the same place everyone else did, unzipped the folder, and dragged and dropped the embedded folder with all the image files onto a new SD card. The file names are "Slide01-1080p" through "Slide20-1080p".


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mj8* /forum/post/15245510
> 
> 
> I should be getting my PN58A650 this week and want to start off on the right foot. With that being said, I have read through the majority of this thread and seem to be a bit confused. I just downloaded the "break in file.iso" from post #1077 I will burn that to a DVD and just loop that on my DVD player....is this sufficient or should I be doing something in combination with that?



That is perfectly fine. You may want to up the contrast and brightness a little but other than that, you are good to go.


----------



## mj8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15246111
> 
> 
> That is perfectly fine. You may want to up the contrast and brightness a little but other than that, you are good to go.



I always during break in I wanted to go down on the contrast and brightness?


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mj8* /forum/post/15246614
> 
> 
> I always during break in I wanted to go down on the contrast and brightness?



Contrast and Brightness to 90 while the break in dvd is running.


----------



## mj8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15247157
> 
> 
> Contrast and Brightness to 90 while the break in dvd is running.



Noted, thankyou!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15244350
> 
> 
> refer to my post# 1077
> 
> there you can download the .ISO file via the link I have provided.
> 
> 
> 
> Once downloaded and the zip file is run, you will have two files.
> 
> 
> EA_BREAKIN_DVD.ISO
> 
> 
> EA_BREAKIN_DVD.MDS.


----------



## Luke123

Hello


I have a new Panasonic TH46PZ800 since three weeks.

I read an article about the necessity of running a break-in continuous sequence to age the pixels on my display.

It's at Evangelos Angelides's website , her at :

http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


I have downloaded the zip file, decompressed it and copied this block of images on a SD card ready to run in diaporama mode with loop-back playing.

They say we have to turn down at minimum the Contrast and brightness controls.

But in my display I don't have the contrast but I have brightness.

Is it OK if I turn down the "picture" and brightness?


But I heard that these tests are not very necessary because the display had already been aged at Panasonic.


Am I doing the right thing here?

Over 700 hours!!! Is that right?

Why 100 hours or so would not be enough?

Thanks


Luke


----------



## bloomcounty

How much of an issue are the stationary tv logos in the bottom corners of the screen when watching stuff on a hidef plasma? (Particularly 50PZ800U.)


Do they cause serious image retention? What about burn-in?


I guess you should avoid them in the first 100 hours, right? But what's the situation after that?


Thanks!


----------



## fatbottom

There's no set answer as it's a combination of variables.


Make & model of the TV

Contrast & brightness settings

Is orbiter on or off?

Logo see through or solid? If solid what colour and what intensity?

How long on that channel? Any ad breaks?

Age of plasma

Do you watch the same channel, or vary? If vary how often do you go back to that channel?


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloomcounty* /forum/post/15254161
> 
> 
> How much of an issue are the stationary tv logos in the bottom corners of the screen when watching stuff on a hidef plasma? (Particularly 50PZ800U.)
> 
> 
> Do they cause serious image retention? What about burn-in?
> 
> 
> I guess you should avoid them in the first 100 hours, right? But what's the situation after that?
> 
> 
> Thanks!




Read the Break-in FAQ


----------



## Full-Nelson

I have a 50" plasma panny. Broke TV in as described in many post. I have played video games on my ps3 as much or more then watching regular TV. Sometimes 6 hours straight with zero burn in. In 6 months now I have had zero BI or IR issues. I have heard Panny's are better with this, so I can't comment on other brands. No worries when gaming in extended sessions, or stupid logo's. In my eyes BI is only a myth with newer Panny's anyway.


----------



## bloomcounty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/15254360
> 
> 
> Read the Break-in FAQ



I did!











> Quote:
> Mix up your viewing to avoid long periods on the same channel with tickers or station logos



So, specifically, how long is it okay to watch something with the same ticker/logo in the corner after break-in (either 4:3 center, or filling the screen in hidef)? (Or did I miss that in the FAQ. If so, sorry!)


Thanks!


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloomcounty* /forum/post/15254616
> 
> 
> I did!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, specifically, how long is it okay to watch something with the same ticker/logo in the corner after break-in (either 4:3 center, or filling the screen in hidef)? (Or did I miss that in the FAQ. If so, sorry!)
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Good for you!


Watch to your hearts content and give it nary a thought.


----------



## CBRYDR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Full-Nelson* /forum/post/15254483
> 
> 
> I have a 50" plasma panny. Broke TV in as described in many post. I have played video games on my ps3 as much or more then watching regular TV. Sometimes 6 hours straight with zero burn in. In 6 months now I have had zero BI or IR issues. I have heard Panny's are better with this, so I can't comment on other brands. No worries when gaming in extended sessions, or stupid logo's. In my eyes BI is only a myth with newer Panny's anyway.



Which model Panny?


----------



## bloomcounty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/15254679
> 
> 
> Good for you!
> 
> 
> Watch to your hearts content and give it nary a thought.



Excellent -- much thanks!


----------



## Full-Nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CBRYDR* /forum/post/15255097
> 
> 
> Which model Panny?



th50pz80u


----------



## UdoG

Hello!


Is there a problem when I use the burn in DVD with a standard dvd player with a scart connection? Because I will get only a 576i (PAL) resolution. Or is it better to use a player with a output of 1080p? Since 12 hours my burn in is running...


Thanks!

Udo


----------



## fatbottom

The maximum resolution via SCART is 576i.


----------



## UdoG

I know that the max. resolution is 576i - but it is not better to use a source with 1080p (during the break in)?


Udo


----------



## fatbottom

It makes no difference, all pixels will be cycling through video whether 576i or 1080p. Just make sure the whole of the screen is being used, with some DVD's there may be a slight border to one or both sides (not 4:3 borders but maybe about 4mm wide)


----------



## UdoG

Thanks!


But in the meantime I use an usb stick with the 1080p images which you can also find/download on the webpage. I configured the slideshow as following:


- 30 seconds every image

- full screen

- autorepeat


Hopefully I have no slight border with the slideshow.


Udo


----------



## bloomcounty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15254202
> 
> 
> There's no set answer as it's a combination of variables.
> 
> 
> Make & model of the TV - *Panasonic 50PZ800U (most likely)*
> 
> Contrast & brightness settings *(in general, probably Contrast: 80-85; Brightness: 50-55)*
> 
> Is orbiter on or off? *(I assume "on" -- any reason to not have it on all the time?)*
> 
> Logo see through or solid? If solid what colour and what intensity? *(More often solid than not: hidef NBC, ABC, Cartoon Network, Sci Fi -- not broadcast, but .avi files)*
> 
> How long on that channel? Any ad breaks? *(No ad breaks; How long TBD by your answer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )*
> 
> Age of plasma *(Brand new)*
> 
> Do you watch the same channel, or vary? If vary how often do you go back to that channel? *(They would be.avi/.mkv files, so possible to watch 2-3 hours worth of program content straight -- but will adjust as needed per your response.)*



Replies above -- thanks!


(FYI, for break-in, I was not planning on running a break-in dvd, but just watching 1.85:1 content (TV shows on dvd, like The Office, or bluray or SD movies in 1.85:1, for the first 100 hours. No content with station logos during that time.)


----------



## CBRYDR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloomcounty* /forum/post/15263060
> 
> 
> Replies above -- thanks!
> 
> 
> (FYI, for break-in, I was not planning on running a break-in dvd, but just watching 1.85:1 content (TV shows on dvd, like The Office, or bluray or SD movies in 1.85:1, for the first 100 hours. No content with station logos during that time.)



What's considered 1.85:1 on the Panny TH50PZ85U?


----------



## bloomcounty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CBRYDR* /forum/post/15263919
> 
> 
> What's considered 1.85:1 on the Panny TH50PZ85U?



Maybe I made a mistake -- I mean the aspect ratio that fills the entire screen. Thanks.


----------



## Raibeaux

What's the difference in screen filling between 1:78 and 1:85? Do both of them fill the screen?


----------



## RYAXIN

If you are reading this it is because you have some sort of concern regarding Burn In or Image Retention of your new plasma TV.


Although the Break In DVD works well, it does waste precious TV viewing time. 100 - 250 hours of TV viewing time to be more precise.


Of course some will say 250 hrs is too much time to break in a plasma, some will say 100 hours is not enough so let's stick with 175 hours to compromise on the total amount of time required for a proper break in.


Some will even tell you that a break in is not even required with today's plasma's.


----------



## UdoG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15264356
> 
> 
> For the first 100 hours limit your contrast and brightness to ~50% as this is a time when the phosphors are the strongest.



Hello!


You wrote that the contrast and brightness should be reduced (around 50%) and in other postings you will find the information that - for faster break in - you should increase the contrast and brightness. What is now better?


Udo


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UdoG* /forum/post/15264448
> 
> 
> Hello!
> 
> 
> You wrote that the contrast and brightness should be reduced (around 50%) and in other postings you will find the information that - for faster break in - you should increase the contrast and brightness. What is now better?
> 
> 
> Udo



If you use the break in DVD, then you raise the contrast and brightness. There are no logos or black borders, therefore raising the contrast on a full screen of various colors is perfectly fine.


For normal TV viewing (because you do have static logos and black borders) the contrast and brightness should be kept low, as this is more of a gradual approach to breaking in the set.


----------



## UdoG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15264618
> 
> 
> If you use the break in DVD, then you raise the contrast and brightness. There are no logos or black borders, therefore raising the contrast on a full screen of various colors is perfectly fine.
> 
> 
> For normal TV viewing (because you do have static logos and black borders) the contrast and brightness should be kept low, as this is more of a gradual approach to breaking in the set.



Thanks for your explanation. Do you think 100 hours (with the break in dvd) are enough or better 150/200?


Udo


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UdoG* /forum/post/15265035
> 
> 
> Thanks for your explanation. Do you think 100 hours (with the break in dvd) are enough or better 150/200?
> 
> 
> Udo



again, the amount of hours required for break in are debatable.


In all honesty, I did download the break in dvd and I never used it. I read several posts from other AVS members who simply used common sense and I applied their knowledge and it worked out just fine.


If you raise the contrast and brightness and do decide to use the DVD then I'd say 150 hours to be safe.


I would not recommend leaving the TV on for 150 hours straight either running the DVD. Remember, the TV is new, you will want to gradually work it up to where you want it to be. Leaving the DVD run overnight should be sufficient until you've reached the desired break in time.


----------



## CaspianM

I personally have not done a full break-in but run my memory stick here and there & in between regular TV programming. Never run the TV while not home.


RYAXIN thanks for your PM and instructions for ISO to Jpeg conversion.


I do run the TV with lowest contrast possible for the time being and gradually increase it as hours add up. I would think plasma and CRT have a lot in common and have done the same thing (only all white with CRT) with my FP CRT in my theater in the past which had worked great.


----------



## UdoG

Hello.


The first 35-40 hourse I used the burn in DVD with an increased contrast and color. Today I will start to watch tv - with lower contrast (for the next 150-200 hours). I hope this way is no problem...


Udo


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UdoG* /forum/post/15269492
> 
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
> The first 35-40 hourse I used the burn in DVD with an increased contrast and color. Today I will start to watch tv - with lower contrast (for the next 150-200 hours). I hope this way is no problem...
> 
> 
> Udo



Just remember to limit static logos, black bars for the next 100 hours or so, and you'll be perfectly fine.


----------



## UdoG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15270716
> 
> 
> Just remember to limit static logos, black bars for the next 100 hours or so, and you'll be perfectly fine.



Thanks










Udo


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Just remember to limit static logos, black bars for the next 100 hours or so, and you'll be perfectly fine.



I only watched 4:3 for short periods but I did get uneven wear- been used for 200+ hours, and it's taken 20 or so hours and I think it's gone. Still it shows plasma needs to be handled with kid gloves.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15270852
> 
> 
> I only watched 4:3 for short periods but I did get uneven wear- been used for 200+ hours, and it's taken 20 or so hours and I think it's gone. Still it shows plasma needs to be handled with kid gloves.



I agree that a plasma in it's 'infancy'...







(AKA early stage) does need a little white glove, but once it out grows that glove it's a solid piece of technology that should provide years of pleasurable TV viewing in great color and clarity.


----------



## RobBas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by fatbottom
> 
> I only watched 4:3 for short periods but I did get uneven wear- been used for 200+ hours, and it's taken 20 or so hours and I think it's gone. Still it shows plasma needs to be handled with kid gloves.



Unfair statement, not all plasmas are the same, you rarely here anyone with a Panny or Pioneer complain about IR.


----------



## fatbottom

It's a Pioneer. It is a bit worrying though if you watch lots of 4:3 and widescreen movies.


----------



## ricohman

Wow!

First of all, great forum!

Anyway, I had no idea any break in was needed.

I bought a 42 inch Samsung this summer (and I am buying another one) and all I did was unbox it, plug it in and let my boy hook the 360 to it.

I never adjusted anything, or broke it in ect.

It's break in was non-stop gaming as that is it's main function.

No issues with anything. But again I have almost no knowledge of what could happen and as they say "ignorance is bliss"!

To late to break it in now. The saleman said nothing about reducing brightness and contrast.

Should I break the new set in?

Does it really matter?


----------



## fatbottom

Samsungs look horrid out of the box I would recommend you find some settings which improve picture quality. Samsungs are in dynamic mode by default which is a easy way to ruin the set.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15281134
> 
> 
> Samsungs look horrid out of the box I would recommend you find some settings which improve picture quality. Samsungs are in dynamic mode by default which is a easy way to ruin the set.



Dynamic?

Which mode should I select?

The picture really looks good as it is now. How does dynamic ruin the set?

And you have to dumb it down for me!


----------



## fatbottom

Dynamic is the over the top colourful, full contrast setting with all processing which looks vile. I would recommend changing to movie and disabling everything in the menus such as dynamic contrast, motion plus/movie plus, DNI-E, active colour, black level, etc etc.


Dynamic contrast can ruin the set because it's at 75 out of 100 contrast, and uses a contrast boosting technique. It's not a good idea to run a plasma in dynamic mode. If you're gaming in dynamic it's pretty sure to say you've got screenburn.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15284139
> 
> 
> Dynamic is the over the top colourful, full contrast setting with all processing which looks vile. I would recommend changing to movie and disabling everything in the menus such as dynamic contrast, motion plus/movie plus, DNI-E, active colour, black level, etc etc.
> 
> 
> Dynamic contrast can ruin the set because it's at 75 out of 100 contrast, and uses a contrast boosting technique. It's not a good idea to run a plasma in dynamic mode. If you're gaming in dynamic it's pretty sure to say you've got screenburn.



Hmmm

I had a really good look at it tonight and I can't see any type of image retention or burning ect.

I adjusted the levels to 50 and set it to game mode. But once you set it to game mode it seems to defualt to different settings anyway.

Since this set has had non-stop gaming all summer until now (in its factory state) is this set doomed?

It still looks as good as the day I first turned it on.


----------



## Raibeaux

Just a note. I believe in break ins. I "broke in" my Cadillac Deville in the following way, plus alternating driving speeds:


Changed oil and filter at 500 miles.

Changed oil and filter at 1000 miles.

Changed oil and filter at 2000 miles.

Changed oil and filter at 3000 miles, switching to Royal Purple synthetic oil and K&N filter.

Change every 3000 miles with new K&N Oil filter and Royal Purple.

4500# car

***I get 30 mpg on the highway.***


I'm in the process of breaking in my new Pioneer plasma. Here's hoping my "theory" works again.

P.S. It was getting 23 mpg when I first got it.


?


----------



## Jeremyd5

I have just over 1000 hours on my Pansaonic PZ800U and need some honest feedback. This is my first plasma. After the first 200 hours I began to watch movies on it (making sure to watch a 1.85 movie after watching a movie that had a different aspect ratio) and then tuning to a full screen/no logo programming for regular viewing or to get my break in time closer to 1000 hours. I love the 800Us PQ (much better than the LCDs I looked at), but the one thing that I'm still struggling with are my concerns about damaging the set via Burn In.


I've literally have owned the 800U for 2 1/2 months and it wasn't until last Monday that I forced myself to watch a full logo channel (ESPN's MNF) and that was only because my mom wanted to see what it looked like in HD. The whole time I was nervous, but I didn't want to let on so I didn't check for IR until after we watched a full screen movie. If there was any IR from MNF it was gone.


That encouraged me enough to try and play Left 4 Dead on it earlier tonight. I played for about 2 hours and decided to see how long it would take to clear the hud IRs from the HDTV. I expected that it would only take about 15 - 30 minutes of full screen/no logo content, however it took somewhere between 2 and 3 hours to clear the huds from the screen. I can't precisely say how long as I moved my Xbox 360 back to my old CRT to play some more Left 4 Dead with my brother and didn't check until later that night.


Is this cause for concern, espcially since I have over 1000 hours viewing time on it? I know that the HDTV is fine because IR went away, but the time it took to clear concerns me that any additional use of the same HUD could take longer to clear and eventually cause it to burn in even if I am varying my games/movies/HDTV watching. I feel stupid even to bring this up (especially after the research I did on AVS) but I want to make sure I'm not doing something that could eventually ruin the TV.


As a side note: Force 1 is set and my gaming habits typically are 2 - 3 hours a day, although a 4 or 5 hours session on a weekend occasionally does happen.


Thanks.


----------



## David Susilo

I play Wii games on my PRO-1150. Games such as Barnyard, Mario Kart, I play them for hours on end. A couple of times I played them for about 7 hours with no adverse effect on the screen.


On my PRO-111, although I don't play games, I do watch a lot of National Geographic HD, Discovery HD and a LOT of 2.35:1 movies with no adverse effect either.


Both TVs have been ISF calibrated.


----------



## Faris Kalin

I've been playing rpgs on my LG plasma since about 50 hours into it's life. Sure there is a bit of IR, but it goes away pretty quickly. I haven't had any problems with burn in. I was really paranoid at first too, but I really haven't seen any reason to be worried any more.


----------



## Jeremyd5

I guess what bothered me was that it took 2 - 3 hours to clear the HUD IR from the screen and how clearly the HUD could be seen when viewing it up close in a dark room. I followed the guidelines regarding picture settings and varying up programming (watching movies with different aspect ratios, zooming out logos, etc.). Any previous instances of IR that I've had on the 800U were faint and cleared very quickly. I guess I'm trying to decide if an IR that takes 2 - 3 hours to clear is too long or if that is fairly typical for plasmas and is not something I need to worry about as long as I continue to mix up my viewing. Overall I've been really impressed with the 800U so I'd hate to ruin it via burn-in (one of the few things that is not covered by my warranty). Thanks again for all your input.


----------



## ejk01

just got my 63" samsung plasma fired up. downloaded evangelo's break-in images to a flash drive and have them running on the tv. plan on running the images 20hrs/day thru friday...no other uses till the weekend.


reading this break-in thread it seems that people are saying that if when you are soley running the break-in images you actually want to turn the picture settings up....versus breaking in with a movie or specific channel where you turn everything down.


is there any consensus on this?


thanks


----------



## nornet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chief-j* /forum/post/13770170
> 
> 
> While by and large I would agree with this statement (especially about Pioneers, great manufacturer btw), I am one of the unlucky few that has suffered from long-term IR. I'm hoping it's not permanent burn-in, but as time goes on my hopes continue to dwindle.
> 
> 
> I have the Pioneer PDP4270HD 42" plasma, and have had it a little over a year, but have had some level of IR for almost 4 months now. It happened because my Verizon FIOS DVR froze when displaying ESPN (along with its beautiful red channel logo and score bar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was downstairs cleaning for maybe an hour, hour and a half, and came up to witness the fallout. On normal viewing it is often difficult to see the IR, but on a bright background you can clearly make out the red ESPN logo, and some of the borders of the score bar and the "rundown" bar that displays vertically on the right hand side of the screen.
> 
> 
> I have tried outputting VGA from my pc to the TV and running Jscreenfix for hours to no avail. I also ran the break-in DVD for 4-5 hours and no dice. When you view an all white screen, it is VERY apparent.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I don't have much hope of fixing this, but if anyone has suggestions, please let me know. The TV doesn't have a "white wash" function or anything like that to fix IR, so I don't know what else to try. Mainly I just wanted to confirm for those curious that yes, IR still exists and can happen to you, although I think my case might be a rare one. Still, if you have FIOS and the DVR, do not leave the TV on it while you're away from the room. I learned the hard way, and turn the tube off whenever I'm away from it. Still, when I come home I turn on the set and often find the DVR has frozen the channel where it was left, so the opportunity is always there if you're not careful and you have FIOS. Just an FYI -



I don't believe you are just one of the unlucky few, I do think severe IR is a much more prevalent problem with plasmas than people would have you believe. I have the same set with the same issues. Set was broken in for 2-300 hrs around the time D-Nices recommendations changed from a soft burn in to a hard one. There was virtually no 4:3 viewing during this time and now that I've been using it for this aspect ratio, the borders are pronounced. I also tried JSCREENFIX which was a qualified success. It reduced the problem somewhat but not enough. I had expected to get 10 years out of this set but am already looking for another. Is there another plasma in my future? Highly unlikely. I don't really care how good the blacks are. Saw an XBR8 the other day that looked OK. Sure was a lot darker than the XBR2 I had a few years ago.

The problem is whether I'm willing to bite the bullet on the Pioneer and the answer is I can't afford to.


----------



## metoo3

Hi all,


I'm just new to avsforum and I checked out this interesting thread.


I bought a really nice LX5090 Kuro and mainly watched BD & DVD, aspect ration was 70% cinemascope, 1,78:1 just 30%...


However I got my TV set calibrated from the supplier and just had some smaller IR issues (cinemascope lines) which disappeared after running normal SDTV and the white videopattern (videowasher or something, sorry don't know the english words for it...)


So far it was running around 120 hours without any major issues till yesterday:

I tried CoD5 @PS3 without Orbiter mode or something, just my calibrated Dot-o-dot 1080p setting, contrast at 40.

What a bad surprise, after 2h of gaming, I could notice the game's player hud on the left bottom of the screen.

I can just see it with the picture set to all black (empty channel or something).

I ran the videopattern once(white bar from left to right).

Today in the morning, I switched on the Pio and noticed the player HUD again on a whole black screen









I ran the videopattern again and my wife changed to normal SDTV in the afternoon.

Hopefully it will disappear when I'm back home, but how is the chance that it is just IR and not real forever "burn-in"?


At the moment I'm really pissed!


Maybe you guys can advice what I should do?



Cheers,


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metoo3* /forum/post/15309570
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I'm just new to avsforum and I checked out this interesting thread.
> 
> 
> I bought a really nice LX5090 Kuro and mainly watched BD & DVD, aspect ration was 70% cinemascope, 1,78:1 just 30%...
> 
> 
> However I got my TV set calibrated from the supplier and just had some smaller IR issues (cinemascope lines) which disappeared after running normal SDTV and the white videopattern (videowasher or something, sorry don't know the english words for it...)
> 
> 
> So far it was running around 120 hours without any major issues till yesterday:
> 
> I tried CoD5 @PS3 without Orbiter mode or something, just my calibrated Dot-o-dot 1080p setting, contrast at 40.
> 
> What a bad surprise, after 2h of gaming, I could notice the game's player hud on the left bottom of the screen.
> 
> I can just see it with the picture set to all black (empty channel or something).
> 
> I ran the videopattern once(white bar from left to right).
> 
> Today in the morning, I switched on the Pio and noticed the player HUD again on a whole black screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ran the videopattern again and my wife changed to normal SDTV in the afternoon.
> 
> Hopefully it will disappear when I'm back home, but how is the chance that it is just IR and not real forever "burn-in"?
> 
> 
> At the moment I'm really pissed!
> 
> 
> Maybe you guys can advice what I should do?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,




For burn in to occur you would have to have abused the plasma real, REAL hard. What you have is a case of IR that is a little more stubborn. It will go away with normal TV viewing.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ejk01* /forum/post/15308592
> 
> 
> just got my 63" samsung plasma fired up. downloaded evangelo's break-in images to a flash drive and have them running on the tv. plan on running the images 20hrs/day thru friday...no other uses till the weekend.
> 
> 
> reading this break-in thread it seems that people are saying that if when you are soley running the break-in images you actually want to turn the picture settings up....versus breaking in with a movie or specific channel where you turn everything down.
> 
> 
> is there any consensus on this?
> 
> 
> thanks



Please refer to my post# 1123.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> , I do think severe IR is a much more prevalent problem with plasmas than people would have you believe. I have the same set with the same issues. Set was broken in for 2-300 hrs around the time D-Nices recommendations changed from a soft burn in to a hard one. There was virtually no 4:3 viewing during this time and now that I've been using it for this aspect ratio, the borders are pronounced.



I have to agree with you, I was incredibly careful, with short 4:3 OAR periods, contrast at 1/3rd, and 4:3 borders appeared to have burnt in, it's almost gone now- but I am annoyed that plasma has not improved much, I heard about 4:3 burn in years ago. If a set can get 4:3 burn in in 20-40 minute periods, then in the sets lifetime 2:35 and 4:3 burn in is inevitable. Most people wouldn't spot things like screenburn so there opinion doesn't mean much.


When I had the LCD I watched several 4:3 TV series without any worries.


----------



## CWood21

Hi, this is my first post in these forums after viewing them for about a week. I just recently purchased the Panny plasma TH-50PZ85U. I just went out and bought a SD card and DL the images that many of you have also done. They are running on my tv as we speak. I know many people have asked this question but does anyone have a certain answer? What settings should I have on when using the Break In images? Right now I am in Cinema mode, and most everything at 40, I assuming that this is a safe way to go, anyone have any other opinions? Thanks alot! These forums are great!


----------



## Fr. John




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CWood21* /forum/post/15311648
> 
> 
> Hi, this is my first post in these forums after viewing them for about a week. I just recently purchased the Panny plasma TH-50PZ85U. I just went out and bought a SD card and DL the images that many of you have also done. They are running on my tv as we speak. I know many people have asked this question but does anyone have a certain answer? What settings should I have on when using the Break In images? Right now I am in Cinema mode, and most everything at 40, I assuming that this is a safe way to go, anyone have any other opinions? Thanks alot! These forums are great!



all shall be answered..................in the Break-in FAQ


----------



## ejk01




Ryaxin -


As I said in my earlier post, I am running only the break-in images form evangelo this week.


your post #1123 -
_For the first 100 hours limit your contrast and brightness to ~50% as this is a time when the phosphors are the strongest._


however in your posts #1101 and 1125 -

_Contrast and Brightness to 90 while the break in dvd is running.


If you use the break in DVD, then you raise the contrast and brightness._


I think my situation is similar to 1101 and 1125 but I want to make sure i don't foul up my first palsma. Right now I have settings less than 50%.


Thanks for you help.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ejk01* /forum/post/15313457
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryaxin -
> 
> 
> As I said in my earlier post, I am running only the break-in images form evangelo this week.
> 
> 
> your post #1123 -
> _For the first 100 hours limit your contrast and brightness to ~50% as this is a time when the phosphors are the strongest._
> 
> 
> however in your posts #1101 and 1125 -
> 
> _Contrast and Brightness to 90 while the break in dvd is running.
> 
> 
> If you use the break in DVD, then you raise the contrast and brightness._
> 
> 
> I think my situation is similar to 1101 and 1125 but I want to make sure i don't foul up my first palsma. Right now I have settings less than 50%.
> 
> 
> Thanks for you help.





If you decide to do both....


While the DVD is running, raise the cont and bright.

When the DVD is not running, lower them.


----------



## Raibeaux

I'm running the break-in drive on my 111, and was wondering how D-Nice came up with 150 hours for it. Experimentation? Measurements? Experience? All the above?


----------



## adazzleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15285059
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> I had a really good look at it tonight and I can't see any type of image retention or burning ect.
> 
> I adjusted the levels to 50 and set it to game mode. But once you set it to game mode it seems to defualt to different settings anyway.
> 
> Since this set has had non-stop gaming all summer until now (in its factory state) is this set doomed?
> 
> It still looks as good as the day I first turned it on.



Ignorance is bliss. If you are happy with the way it looks, and it isn't causing any problems by now, then there probably isn't a problem.


For the record I play games on my 58" Panasonic and it is 2 years old. I have no problems. Yes I had some IR in the beginning, but that seems less and less over time. The important thing is to be careful. I never did a Burn in DVD, or SD card, I just would try to mix up what I was watching, or playing. I did adjust my settings, and I do keep a lower setting for video games with constant fixed images....such as EA's stupid symbol on NCAA Football, but I enjoy my TV, and I don't let things concern me much anymore. They are made great now days. Enjoy them. If you aren't noticing any problems, then there isn't any reason to change. Ignorance is bliss. If you read this forum too much you are going to freak out about eveything.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adazzleman* /forum/post/15320189
> 
> 
> Ignorance is bliss. If you are happy with the way it looks, and it isn't causing any problems by now, then there probably isn't a problem.
> 
> 
> For the record I play games on my 58" Panasonic and it is 2 years old. I have no problems. Yes I had some IR in the beginning, but that seems less and less over time. The important thing is to be careful. I never did a Burn in DVD, or SD card, I just would try to mix up what I was watching, or playing. I did adjust my settings, and I do keep a lower setting for video games with constant fixed images....such as EA's stupid symbol on NCAA Football, but I enjoy my TV, and I don't let things concern me much anymore. They are made great now days. Enjoy them. If you aren't noticing any problems, then there isn't any reason to change. Ignorance is bliss. If you read this forum too much you are going to freak out about eveything.



I am leaving the new Samsung the way it was made except for taking it out of dynamic mode.

It will get zero break-in. I have hooked it to the PS3 so tonight I will let the boys start gaming on it.

I am not waiting 100 or 1000 hours before I start to enjoy my tv. I never did with the other set and it's just fine.

I just spoke with a friend at work and all he did with his Hitachi plasma was plug it in and hook a wii to it. No break in.

He never adjusted anything. No issues for 2 years.

I am thinking that the average consumer will do nothing except use their new tv. All of the sales people mention nothing about "break in" and there are millions of plasma tv's running fine they way they were delivered. I do not believe that most people would ever notice any IR as they usually aren't looking for it.

That said, I do believe that an AV enthusiast who is more in tune with his/her electronics may be more picky the the average consumer so in that case, this is all good.

Kind of like me changing oil every 3500km on my BMW R1150GSA.


----------



## adazzleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15329187
> 
> 
> I do not believe that most people would ever notice any IR as they usually aren't looking for it.
> 
> That said, I do believe that an AV enthusiast who is more in tune with his/her electronics may be more picky the the average consumer so in that case, this is all good.
> 
> Kind of like me changing oil every 3500km on my BMW R1150GSA.



I think you are right. I doubt most people would even notice the IR, except those who are extreme enthusiasts, or already looking for it. Another car reference... I notice every little new ding and scratch on my car, when most people can't even see it. So I guess it is kind of the same thing.


----------



## James W. Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fr. John* /forum/post/15040156
> 
> 
> Typically 7.35. If the selection is good.
> 
> 
> That drops to 5.69 if B movies.
> 
> 
> Seriously, this is like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.





lol!


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adazzleman* /forum/post/15336737
> 
> 
> I think you are right. I doubt most people would even notice the IR, except those who are extreme enthusiasts, or already looking for it. Another car reference... I notice every little new ding and scratch on my car, when most people can't even see it. So I guess it is kind of the same thing.



Very very well said.


----------



## odd-props




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> 
> Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_










Nice link ... if you just bought a new plasma made in 2004.


Got any links where Panasonic recommends "breaking in" their current line up?


... oh that's right their aren't any.










Yep, that's right - technology advances!


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *odd-props* /forum/post/15346018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice link ... if you just bought a new plasma made in 2004.
> 
> 
> Got any links where Panasonic recommends "breaking in" their current line up?
> 
> 
> ... oh that's right their aren't any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's right - technology advances!



While the newer generation of plasma displays are better equipped to handle IR or BI, the break in routine is still emphasized.


Even Panasonic recommends the 'Break In' method.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=24973 


With the countless representatives/technicians I have been dealing with over the last couple of years, all of them still recommend the break in process.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15355777
> 
> 
> While the newer generation of plasma displays are better equipped to handle IR or BI, the break in routine is still emphasized.
> 
> 
> Even Panasonic recommends the 'Break In' method.
> 
> http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=24973
> 
> 
> With the countless representatives/technicians I have been dealing with over the last couple of years, all of them still recommend the break in process.



A few marathon sessions of holiday PS3 gaming seems to have "broken in" our new 42 inch Samsung. And I ket in in the very bright "game mode" just to see what would happen. Nothing happened.

It looks great. Just as good as it's 4 month older brother.

Last night we watched slide shows of our sumer holidays with some drinks. Later on I noticed that some pics were paused for nearly an hour.

But no big deal.

I would bet out of every 10 000 sets they sell only a handful get "broken in".

I think its good to be cautious but the "break in" thing is a bit overboard.


----------



## RYAXIN

.....being cautious is exactly that. With a little common sense there are no issues.


----------



## General Kenobi

I just got my Pro-111FD yesterday and will be setting it up tonight. I was going to run some movies in 1.85 on repeat to break it in over the next couple days. Is there anything I should avoid or is this not a good idea?


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *General Kenobi* /forum/post/15357223
> 
> 
> I just got my Pro-111FD yesterday and will be setting it up tonight. I was going to run some movies in 1.85 on repeat to break it in over the next couple days. Is there anything I should avoid or is this not a good idea?



That'll be fine, just a variation on the "leave it on HD Theater while you're not watching it" method.


Be careful about how your DVD player works, somebody here reported using this method only to find that their DVD player got stuck/turned off/something or other and he ended up "breaking in" his set with many hours of a static menu.










jeff


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *General Kenobi* /forum/post/15357223
> 
> 
> I just got my Pro-111FD yesterday and will be setting it up tonight. I was going to run some movies in 1.85 on repeat to break it in over the next couple days. Is there anything I should avoid or is this not a good idea?



Why not "break it in" by watching movies or gaming?

That way you get to use your set.


----------



## mholtz2j

Hey all!

I am deciding between a samsung led LCD or the Pioneer 5020.


I called Pioneer and asked them if they could explain burn-in to me prior to purchasing their product. The guy told me not to watch anything with a static image for more than 2 hours.

He also didn't offer to speak about any technology in the tv to help against this which i thought was odd. 2 hours?

I then decided to call a local dealer (AmericanTV) and all 3 sales associates told me I would need to leave a static image on the screen for a long time. One said, "72 hours." One said, "3 weeks." Another guy told me to baby the TV for the first 500! hours and after that I can go crazy with games, bluray etc.


I am a little confused on this issue or...non-issue. It seems everyone has something different to say.

I like the pioneer picture quality, even though I like the sammy a950 PQ as well. I think the Pioneer produced a more lifelike picture, rather than an artificial picture.

But can someone clear this up for me without saying, "You need to have the static image on there a long time to burn in." What is a long time? That's too broad of a statement.

Also, how come I hear a lot of people having IR problems where it takes them hours to get it off the screen. That's something that scares me.


If I can get these issues cleared up, I think I may have to pull the trigger.


----------



## ontarioguy

a few posts above I see mention of a panasonic break-in FAQ.....anyone know of similar for Samsung, specifically the 550 series? My 58a550 arrives tomorrow and want to be prepared with the appropriate "to do list"......


----------



## ontarioguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ontarioguy* /forum/post/15361711
> 
> 
> a few posts above I see mention of a panasonic break-in FAQ.....anyone know of similar for Samsung, specifically the 550 series? My 58a550 arrives tomorrow and want to be prepared with the appropriate "to do list"......



and another thing....is there only one "break-in DVD"? Is it the one linked to the first post in this forum thread or is there a new one since that 2007 posting? Or a different one for each model (ie one for panasonic users, one for samsung etc)? Just trying to be absolutely clear on all this before the new set arrives.....thanks


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mholtz2j* /forum/post/15360234
> 
> 
> Hey all!
> 
> I am deciding between a samsung led LCD or the Pioneer 5020.
> 
> 
> I called Pioneer and asked them if they could explain burn-in to me prior to purchasing their product. The guy told me not to watch anything with a static image for more than 2 hours.
> 
> He also didn't offer to speak about any technology in the tv to help against this which i thought was odd. 2 hours?
> 
> I then decided to call a local dealer (AmericanTV) and all 3 sales associates told me I would need to leave a static image on the screen for a long time. One said, "72 hours." One said, "3 weeks." Another guy told me to baby the TV for the first 500! hours and after that I can go crazy with games, bluray etc.
> 
> 
> I am a little confused on this issue or...non-issue. It seems everyone has something different to say.
> 
> I like the pioneer picture quality, even though I like the sammy a950 PQ as well. I think the Pioneer produced a more lifelike picture, rather than an artificial picture.
> 
> But can someone clear this up for me without saying, "You need to have the static image on there a long time to burn in." What is a long time? That's too broad of a statement.
> 
> Also, how come I hear a lot of people having IR problems where it takes them hours to get it off the screen. That's something that scares me.
> 
> 
> If I can get these issues cleared up, I think I may have to pull the trigger.



You are asking for the impossible. There is no way anyone can say you will get IR after X number of hours viewing. There are to many variables including what your settings are at, what is the static image, how bright is it, what colors make it up, is the orbitter on (or other technologies), how many hours on the set total, etc. etc. etc.


You should baby the set for the first 150 to 200 hours. Avoid static images, watch full screen HD content until the set settles in, then go for it. If you get the pioneer make sure the orbiter is on. Use common sense, and enjoy the awesome set.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ontarioguy* /forum/post/15361950
> 
> 
> and another thing....is there only one "break-in DVD"? Is it the one linked to the first post in this forum thread or is there a new one since that 2007 posting? Or a different one for each model (ie one for panasonic users, one for samsung etc)? Just trying to be absolutely clear on all this before the new set arrives.....thanks



Please refer to post# 1123 for any concerns you may have regarding breaking in your new set.


There is only one break in DVD for all PDP models out there.


----------



## ontarioguy

Thanks Ryaxin, that was very helpful! ....I was looking for an excuse not to fire up the break-in dvd for hours on end. I'll just be cautious on what I watch for the first little while etc. As for brightness and contrast, just lower those to less then 50%? Any specific viewing mode I should be in (or avoid), "dynamic" vs. "movie" etc? (I have a samsung 58a550...)


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ontarioguy* /forum/post/15370347
> 
> 
> Thanks Ryaxin, that was very helpful! ....I was looking for an excuse not to fire up the break-in dvd for hours on end. I'll just be cautious on what I watch for the first little while etc. As for brightness and contrast, just lower those to less then 50%? Any specific viewing mode I should be in (or avoid), "dynamic" vs. "movie" etc? (I have a samsung 58a550...)


avoid Dynamic mode. Movie mode is best. If you could take it a step down from 50% even better. 47% on both cont and bright.


Mix up the content you view, black borders, static logos etc are all fine throughout the break in period provided the viewing content is mixed up afterwards. If you notice any IR, it will go away.


Just remember the general rule of thumb, enjoy your new TV.


----------



## 1300vtxdude

Hey Im about to setup my new Panny PZ80u 50" and try to follow some of the break in procedures but have a dilemma.......my wife also bought the kids a Wii so trying to say you can't use your new Wii for like 2 weeks is going cause some issues lol




Any ideas or advice........Wii totally off limits for 100 hours?


----------



## Hanging Ten

Hello I just set my 46fd18 4 days ago my Daughter is in town for xmas she watched some tv . Here we go, I came home from work and the tv was left on but she turned off the cable box so the screen was the light black. The picture seem to be fine I'm just wondering if this could of left some sort of dull image. Thanks for any help.


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *1300vtxdude* /forum/post/15374557
> 
> 
> Hey Im about to setup my new Panny PZ80u 50" and try to follow some of the break in procedures but have a dilemma.......my wife also bought the kids a Wii so trying to say you can't use your new Wii for like 2 weeks is going cause some issues lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas or advice........Wii totally off limits for 100 hours?



Just control the time they play and make sure they dont leave it on pause. As long as the images alternate you should be good


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hanging Ten* /forum/post/15375775
> 
> 
> Hello I just set my 46fd18 4 days ago my Daughter is in town for xmas she watched some tv . Here we go, I came home from work and the tv was left on but she turned off the cable box so the screen was the light black. The picture seem to be fine I'm just wondering if this could of left some sort of dull image. Thanks for any help.



I dont see how that would damage anything


----------



## Hanging Ten

Thanks RomanO, I did expect a reply on Christmas eve But thanks for the good news


----------



## ricohman

Pulg it it and use your new sets.

Do not worry needlessly.

Hook the wii or 360 up and lets the kids play.

The set was designed to be used, not to be turned on and off for brief periods at someone else settings.....


----------



## 19Bones

Merry Christmas Everyone.


I have a Panasonic TH-50PZ800U with about 150-175 hours on it now. I'm still seeing IR after static images are displayed (from gaming, news bugs, sports graphics, widescreen moves, etc.) when I switch to an input with no signal. I have the pixel orbiter set to force a move every three minutes. Running the "scrolling bar" doesn't seem to get rid of it either. Goes away after 5 minutes of full screen moving content. I love the TV, but I am completely paranoid about ruining it. Will this ever go away? Is it a problem and can it lead to permanent burn-in?


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hanging Ten* /forum/post/15376090
> 
> 
> Thanks RomanO, I did expect a reply on Christmas eve But thanks for the good news



How about Christmas







Enjoy!


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *19Bones* /forum/post/15378694
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas Everyone.
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic TH-50PZ800U with about 150-175 hours on it now. I'm still seeing IR after static images are displayed (from gaming, news bugs, sports graphics, widescreen moves, etc.) when I switch to an input with no signal. I have the pixel orbiter set to force a move every three minutes. Running the "scrolling bar" doesn't seem to get rid of it either. Goes away after 5 minutes of full screen moving content. I love the TV, but I am completely paranoid about ruining it. Will this ever go away? Is it a problem and can it lead to permanent burn-in?



on my 58PZ800 demo I started to run full screen more often after seeing some IR but thats because I run the Ironman movie and that has the intro in the main menu so I saw those bars. My point is just keep switching up your content as much as possible.


----------



## 19Bones

Thanks ROMAN.


Do you think there will be less IR as the set gets more time on it? Gaming seems to cause the most IR and that is one of the reasons I bought the set. Do you watch your widescreen movies in full screen mode with the letterbox bars or zoomed in to fill the screen with moving content?


----------



## ROMAN O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *19Bones* /forum/post/15378830
> 
> 
> Thanks ROMAN.
> 
> 
> Do you think there will be less IR as the set gets more time on it? Gaming seems to cause the most IR and that is one of the reasons I bought the set. Do you watch your widescreen movies in full screen mode with the letterbox bars or zoomed in to fill the screen with moving content?



Yea I put mine in a month ago and now its much better! And I run it everyday at least 8 hours a day. I just watch it full screen when I have it run all day but when I watch a movie I just do wide screen.


----------



## lubej

Hello


Regarding break-in...


I'm running pictures from SD card for 1 week now.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089 


I have this settings:


vieving mode - cinema

contrast, brightness, colour, sharpness - arround 40%

color balance - warm

color management - on

p-nr - off


I have panasonic 42pz80 (EU model)

Are this good setting, or do you recommend higer values for contrast, brightness, colour, sharpness?


Is there something wrong if I run only this images for 20 hours per day, that means no movies, tv programms...


Thank you.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lubej* /forum/post/15379040
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> Regarding break-in...
> 
> 
> I'm running pictures from SD card for 1 week now.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089
> 
> 
> I have this settings:
> 
> 
> vieving mode - cinema
> 
> contrast, brightness, colour, sharpness - arround 40%
> 
> color balance - warm
> 
> color management - on
> 
> p-nr - off
> 
> 
> I have panasonic 42pz80 (EU model)
> 
> Are this good setting, or do you recommend higer values for contrast, brightness, colour, sharpness?
> 
> 
> Is there something wrong if I run only this images for 20 hours per day, that means no movies, tv programms...
> 
> 
> Thank you.



My brother broke his panny in with a 360.

I broke both my new sets in with non-stop gaming and general use.

We have had zero issues and I would bet millions of the general public feel the same.

Why are you wasting all this time?

This "break in" thing has gone waaaay to far.


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15380970
> 
> 
> My brother broke his panny in with a 360.
> 
> I broke both my new sets in with non-stop gaming and general use.
> 
> We have had zero issues and I would bet millions of the general public feel the same.
> 
> Why are you wasting all this time?
> 
> This "break in" thing has gone waaaay to far.



All manufactuers recommend a break in period.


FYI.. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15378694


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RYAXIN* /forum/post/15381085
> 
> 
> All manufactuers recommend a break in period.
> 
> 
> FYI.. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15378694



I bought two new plasma's this year and no where in the manual does it specify a "break in". Just 4:3 for extended hours ect.

Scan a page from any NEW plasma manual that specifies a 100-200 hr "break in" with the break in CD or images ect.

I bet you can't!


----------



## Jeremyd5

Hey all, I Have a panny 800U and I have started gaming on it. I have about 1200 hours on it. When playing any game the 800U IRs to where you can only see it if you are looking up close in a dark room with the huds being clearly readable. They are not visible during normal TV viewing. I'm finding that a 2 hr session takes anywhere between 3 & 4 hours to completely clear. I also did a 4 hour session of gears of war 2 on Thursday and and that took almost 12 hours to clear. What I'm wondering is that normal clearing time for IR on a plasma or is that too long? Should I stop gaming on it?


----------



## unap16

Hello,


this is my first time writing in this extremely informative forum.


I wanted to inquire as to the real burn in dangers of a plasma and how far has the technology matured to handle the situation?


Is image retention (not burn in) a prevalent issue today?


how long does a bright static image need to stay still before it causes retention or in the worst case scenario, Burn-in?


Why is break-in a necessary procedure in today's plasmas? how does it help?


I am planning on purchasing the LG 60 PG60 for sometime next year and thought it would be good time to ask because I was very close to buying a LCD.


I would be mainly using it for HD gaming and HD videos (thanks to the PS3).


Thank you for your replies in advance.


----------



## fatbottom

Since you're buying it mainly for gaming buy a LCD. A plasma will get screenburn even with orbiter if playing games. Your other questions cannot be answered because it's number of variables to cause IR and screenburn.


----------



## gutty96




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15393163
> 
> 
> A plasma will get screenburn even with orbiter if playing games.



Are you sure? I have been gaming all week on my 5020, and not a hint of IR at all. Several letterbox movies too, no IR.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gutty96* /forum/post/15395963
> 
> 
> Are you sure? I have been gaming all week on my 5020, and not a hint of IR at all. Several letterbox movies too, no IR.



I watch mostly 2.35:1 on both Pioneer Elite PRO 1150 and PRO 111, no TV show at all except for CSI vegas. No IR at all


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15393163
> 
> 
> Since you're buying it mainly for gaming buy a LCD. A plasma will get screenburn even with orbiter if playing games.



This is just totally incorrect. I've been gaming on my plasma since the day I got it 11 months ago and have never even had IR. All sorts of games, long sessions, etc. This is the AV "science" forum, please don't spread misinformation.


jeff


----------



## fatbottom

Prove it please, pause a game with a bright HUD leave it 8 hours straight. Post pictures of white & grey screens.



> Quote:
> please don't spread misinformation.



Neither should you. Are you now saying that burn is impossible and willing to back up that claim with your own set? If so please set to dynamic and leave 8 hours with bright HUD.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15396843
> 
> 
> Prove it please, pause a game with a bright HUD leave it 8 hours straight. Post pictures of white & grey screens.



Why would I do that? I don't leave anything on pause for 8 hours and I'm not in the habit of watching white and gray screens. I'm a regular person who uses his TV in regular ways - games, shows, movies.


Even if I tried, the 360 has a screen saver that dims the image after a period of inactivity. Likewise, my TV will auto shut off after a certain period of inactivity. Those features are there precisely to prevent issues that would arise by doing what you suggest. To deliberately circumvent them would classify IMO as abuse.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15396843
> 
> 
> Neither should you. Are you now saying that burn is impossible and willing to back up that claim with your own set? If so please set to dynamic and leave 8 hours with bright HUD.



You said "A plasma will get screenburn even with orbiter if playing games." That is a definitive statement without providing any reasons, disclaimers, etc. And it is 100% incorrect. I game on my set all the time and have never had any problems. No, it's not in dynamic and the contrast is not at 100%. It's at proper settings for a proper image.


Image retention can happen and burn in is possible, if you do silly things like you have asked me to do. If you use the set normally and take some pretty modest precautions burn in is not a concern, and in my experience neither is image retention.


jeff


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Why would I do that?



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If I need to explain why then it's obvious you're a noob. Most people won't notice a faulty set. Those screens show up screenburn the most. Under normal use you may not see SB unless certain colours come up in that area but that doesn't mean you don't have it. A test screen is a way of seeing it.


I spotted early 4:3 burn on my 5090 and that's only had slight bit of 4:3 use- hardly family TV that's been on all day in 4:3 mode, it's gone now but I've had to watch 4:3 to full screen which looks stupid. I never had that problem with the LCD.



> Quote:
> Even if I tried, the 360 has a screen saver



And the 360 is known to reset itself, bringing up a nice bright image.



> Quote:
> If you use the set normally and take some pretty modest precautions burn in is not a concern,



So you're now saying you can indeed get screenburn. Maybe some people want it on dynamic, even though it looks horrible. Try explaining to them that plasmas get SB when left on dynamic, or in movie for x hours if y contrast and z logo brightness.


also with orbiter if the HUD/logo is large enough it won't move sufficiently enough for the central part to be moved to another area of the screen, so that bit will have SB.


----------



## c0peXXX

Just wanted to chime in and compliment on the vast amount of information found in this forum. Loads and loads of information that has been covered time and time again. Kudos for all that have taken the time to explain, re-explain, and re-explain again, the in's and outs and what to look for on what can sometimes be an intimidating idea of caution when first breaking our TV's out of their boxes and turning them on for the first time; to those of us who might not be as technically savy or aware as everyone else.


I have just purchased a Panny 50pz85u with the Panny DMP-BD35 Blu-Ray player. I downloaded the 20 or so frame, break-in slideshow for an SD card that I have only had the chance to run for about 10 hours or so on top of the 6-8hrs of HD viewing. I have the proper settings, set to zero, as recommended on the first couple pages of this thread. Where some peoples questions are a bit more involved than my own, I am only wondering how 'bad' it would 'hurt' the television if my wife and I were to watch a regular DVD with the widescreen/letter box bars (top and bottom). Would I have to be concerned with IR for an hour and a half movie? I tend to run the break-in SD slideshow once I am done of course and the majority of the time we are not watching regular television. I am just going to stay away from video games period until the 100 hours is over... better safe than sorry.


Im sure Ill have some other questions in the future, but thanks in advance.


----------



## David Susilo

1. No need to be overly cautious.

2. Set your tv setting to movie

3. If there is an option for orbiter, use maximum value.

4. Enjoy your tv

5. See item 1 above.


----------



## greenjp

fatbottom,

Way to keep the discourse polite. I don't have any snarky graphics to post and I'm not going to call anyone names, but I think your doing so in response to some disagreement speaks clearly enough.

First we should clear up some nomenclature. It sounds to me like you are using the term "screenburn" to talk about what people here generally call image retention. Image retention means ghost images or patterns that fade after some fairly short amount of time. Screen burn or burn in is the term used around here to talk about permanent after images. I don't make up the terms but that's the way people use them here.



> Quote:
> So you're now saying you can indeed get screenburn.



I do like the straw man argument. I never said burn in was impossible. Rather, I disagreed with your assertion that it was inevitable. Countless other people who game on their plasmas would agree with me.


jeff


----------



## Buckeye911

^ I agree, we have to know just what fatbottom means when he talks about "screenburn" in order to properly respond. If he is talking about what we commonly refer to as "image retention" then of course the vast majority of us plasma owners would agree that this is a common occurrence. Most of us would also agree that this is not a significant concern since it is not visible during normal viewing and dissipates rather quickly. If fatbottom is referring to permanent burn-in then I believe most of us would agree that it is a pretty rare occurrence with normal usage.


----------



## shantyman

The question I have is how apparent is IR when simply watching some TV or whatnot? 5-10 minutes to go away would stink if it were readily seen. Some have said you don't notice it on a non white screen, but then how do you notice it in the first place then?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shantyman88* /forum/post/15415556
> 
> 
> The question I have is how apparent is IR when simply watching some TV or whatnot? 5-10 minutes to go away would stink if it were readily seen. Some have said you don't notice it on a non white screen, but then how do you notice it in the first place then?



I can't speak for everyone but I have never been able to see IR when watching any type of programming on my Panasonic 42px60u nor my Panasonic 50pz800u. To see IR I have to put on a black screen and stick my nose about 18" from the screen. I have only ever been able to see IR on a black screen, never on a white screen.


----------



## Merc_2k

I was careful for the first 100 hours, keeping settings below 50%. When I hit 100 hours I started to play more games but tried to keep static displays in them to a minimum. Most times any IR I found was only noticeable on blank inputs and they would take anywhere from 5 to 60 minutes to disappear completely (usually used the break-in images on loop to do this since I don't have any cable tv at the moment).


I recently got Assassin's Creed on PS3 and after playing the game for two 1-2 hour sessions noticed that the health bar was visible not only on blank input but also over darker scenes in movies (like Batman Begins, Dark Knight etc) from my regular viewing distance.


I've been avoiding playing the game again until I clear this up, but after about 12 hours of trying different materials (running break-in images on SD card [which normally worked for removing HUD traces from playing GTAIV], scrolling white bar and just watching full screen content on blu-ray and DVD), the IR is still there.


Here's a pic to illustrate (top photo is unchanged, middle I altered levels in photoshop to make the outline easier to see and the bottom is a screen shot of the HUD from AC): http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/Merc_2k/ACIR.jpg 

(The image above makes the IR seem lighter than it actually appears to me on my set)


I'm afraid to play after this sort of thing happened.


Is this sort of thing cumulative? If I were to continue to play games with static elements in them, without completely erasing any IR in between sessions, would it continue to build until it becomes visible over bright content as well?


----------



## HomieDaClown




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15420604
> 
> 
> I was careful for the first 100 hours, keeping settings below 50%. When I hit 100 hours I started to play more games but tried to keep static displays in them to a minimum. Most times any IR I found was only noticeable on blank inputs and they would take anywhere from 5 to 60 minutes to disappear completely (usually used the break-in images on loop to do this since I don't have any cable tv at the moment).
> 
> 
> I recently got Assassin's Creed on PS3 and after playing the game for two 1-2 hour sessions noticed that the health bar was visible not only on blank input but also over darker scenes in movies (like Batman Begins, Dark Knight etc) from my regular viewing distance.
> 
> 
> I've been avoiding playing the game again until I clear this up, but after about 12 hours of trying different materials (running break-in images on SD card [which normally worked for removing HUD traces from playing GTAIV], scrolling white bar and just watching full screen content on blu-ray and DVD), the IR is still there.
> 
> 
> Here's a pic to illustrate (top photo is unchanged, middle I altered levels in photoshop to make the outline easier to see and the bottom is a screen shot of the HUD from AC): http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/Merc_2k/ACIR.jpg
> 
> (The image above makes the IR seem lighter than it actually appears to me on my set)
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to play after this sort of thing happened.
> 
> 
> Is this sort of thing cumulative? If I were to continue to play games with static elements in them, without completely erasing any IR in between sessions, would it continue to build until it becomes visible over bright content as well?



I'm pretty sure my cousin had the same model Plasma with the same problem. He played Madden 09 for a few hours and noticed that the score ticker could still be seen after not playing the game for days. Be ready for the Plasma lovers to call you a liar if the image retention doesn't go away and you post about burn-in. =(


----------



## greenjp

Merc,

Please do keep us up to date on this. Reports like yours are just the opposite of what many of us have experienced with our own sets (I've done 5-6 hour sessions on consecutive days of various games on mine) without any problems, so whatever can be learned from your experience will benefit all of us. And no, all of us plasma owners won't jump in to call you a liar. But LCD fans like Homie are bound to spread your story far and wide with glee










If it makes you feel better, read this thread from a week or so ago:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1098014 

Owner in a panic over some video game IR that disappeared after a while.


Personally, I'd refrain from playing the same game if the HUD is remaining visible. Don't want to add more in case something is happening. Play other games, watch some full screen shows, run the break in images, etc. Perhaps take the precaution of pausing the game and switching to TV for a few minutes every hour while you hit the head/refill your beer?


jeff


----------



## fatbottom

What console games have no HUD at all or HUD's which disappear for example after you've been injured.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15422900
> 
> 
> What console games have no HUD at all or HUD's which disappear for example after you've been injured.



My experience is that almost every game's HUD is not on all the time. Either due to cut scenes, loading screens, reload after dying, in-game menus, etc. I've put quite a few hours in on Halo 3, Call of Duty 4, Gears of War 1 (and 2 presently), Mass Effect, Half Life 2, Portal, and Forza 2. All have HUDs of one kind or another and I quite honestly have never had any IR. And believe me, when I got my set I was looking for it










I'd be really interested to know of any games that do have images that would be on screen all the time, even during cut scenes, loading, etc.


jeff


----------



## Merc_2k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15422836
> 
> 
> Merc,
> 
> Please do keep us up to date on this. Reports like yours are just the opposite of what many of us have experienced with our own sets (I've done 5-6 hour sessions on consecutive days of various games on mine) without any problems, so whatever can be learned from your experience will benefit all of us.



Is this really atypical then? I'm still only about a month away from when I purchased the set and I could probably still get something done if this isn't proper behaviour for a plasma set.


Plasma is all new to me, so maybe I'm just unclear on properties of image retention. If anyone could answer either of the following questions, I'd appreciate it.


1) Does it only count as IR if it shows up over other images/programming? If it is only visible on a blank input or dark screen, does that still count?


2)(Assuming that blank input IR counts) How long should it take for an image to be retained on a blank screen or black background? If anything appears on the screen for a brief amount of time it can be seen on the blank input fairly soon. For instance, opening the menu on my Panasonic PX80U to change some picture settings. It only takes a few seconds to do, but the outline and some of the text can still be seen on a blank input immediately after it is closed. It goes away fairly quickly when other content is displayed (no more than a minute), but should it be appearing so soon?


----------



## Egghaus

I just got a Samsung PN50A400 and am having concerns about IR. I have 22 hours on it so far, and I've used tsanga's settings which put the brightness and contrast at about 50%. I set pixel shift to 4/4/1 from the beginning. Like Merc_2k I've noticed that I can see IR after just having the settings menu on the screen for a few seconds, but it goes away quickly, is this normal?


Also, I was getting IR from the Cable/Channel display in the upper left hand corner on the screen, which only comes up when changing channels, I could actually see it while watching the TV. Now, I've watched over 2 hours of Full Screen content and it is still slightly visible on the all white screen. I know it will go away but this seems overly sensitive. Seems like an oversight by Samsung to not make the menus translucent, can it be changed?


I really like the TV, but if this is abnormal IR behaiviour then I will return it. I don't know what to believe here. Thanks


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Egghaus* /forum/post/15433858
> 
> 
> I just got a Samsung PN50A400 and am having concerns about IR. I have 22 hours on it so far, and I've used tsanga's settings which put the brightness and contrast at about 50%. I set pixel shift to 4/4/1 from the beginning. Like Merc_2k I've noticed that I can see IR after just having the settings menu on the screen for a few seconds, but it goes away quickly, is this normal?
> 
> 
> Also, I was getting IR from the Cable/Channel display in the upper left hand corner on the screen, which only comes up when changing channels, I could actually see it while watching the TV. Now, I've watched over 2 hours of Full Screen content and it is still slightly visible on the all white screen. I know it will go away but this seems overly sensitive. Seems like an oversight by Samsung to not make the menus translucent, can it be changed?
> 
> 
> I really like the TV, but if this is abnormal IR behaiviour then I will return it. I don't know what to believe here. Thanks



This is normal.

It will lessen as you use your set.

Just use it like a tv and stop worrying.

Both my Sammy plasma's were broken in with gaming. One was left in torch mode for 4 months!


----------



## 30XS955 User

Is it true that you should burn in the first 100 hours in intervals of 10 hours per day for the first ten days to allow the phosphors to properly cure and resettle?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *30XS955 User* /forum/post/15436633
> 
> 
> Is it true that you should burn in the first 100 hours in intervals of 10 hours per day for the first ten days to allow the phosphors to properly cure and resettle?



No, this is absolutely not necessary.


----------



## mj8

Ok I have just reached 180 hours with the burn in dvd on my 58 Samsung 650 , from what I can gather and from what I have read this is enough hours to now change my settings to optimal and begin to watch movies, regular programming and begin gaming. Am I forgetting something or should I let her rip?


----------



## Merc_2k

After another 6-8 hours of fullscreen content (between Blu-ray, break in images and some Dead Space on PS3 [has no HUD]) I've managed to pretty much wipe out the IR from Assassin's Creed (there may be a little of the darker, horizontal bar left, but it's fairly difficult to spot now).


I decided to try a different game to see what would happen, so I gave Rock Band 2 a go for about half an hour. The IR of the fretboard and score meter were fairly distinct and, after about 4 hours of different content, the fretboard is still faintly visible like the Assassin's Creed IR was. I am currently running the break in images for a few more hours to try to remove it all.


I'm at about 175 hours on the set at this point, is this ever going to get better? I don't like the idea of having to spend these enormous amounts of time after gaming to clear away this stuff.


It seems like most people claim that they've never seen any IR on my model of TV, so what exactly am I doing wrong? I've got the pixel orbiter on force 1 (which, according to the manual, forces a pixel shift every minute). The settings I'm using are a little lower than most listed in the PX80 thread and I'm running it in Cinema, so it's not like I've got it in a torch mode or anything.


----------



## johnc_22

Is a set's sensitivity to IR affected by the Picture and Brightness settings?


----------



## David Susilo

That is correct


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15441971
> 
> 
> After another 6-8 hours of fullscreen content (between Blu-ray, break in images and some Dead Space on PS3 [has no HUD]) I've managed to pretty much wipe out the IR from Assassin's Creed (there may be a little of the darker, horizontal bar left, but it's fairly difficult to spot now).
> 
> 
> I decided to try a different game to see what would happen, so I gave Rock Band 2 a go for about half an hour. The IR of the fretboard and score meter were fairly distinct and, after about 4 hours of different content, the fretboard is still faintly visible like the Assassin's Creed IR was. I am currently running the break in images for a few more hours to try to remove it all.
> 
> 
> I'm at about 175 hours on the set at this point, is this ever going to get better? I don't like the idea of having to spend these enormous amounts of time after gaming to clear away this stuff.
> 
> 
> It seems like most people claim that they've never seen any IR on my model of TV, so what exactly am I doing wrong? I've got the pixel orbiter on force 1 (which, according to the manual, forces a pixel shift every minute). The settings I'm using are a little lower than most listed in the PX80 thread and I'm running it in Cinema, so it's not like I've got it in a torch mode or anything.



I don't think you're doing anything wrong. You will get IR on a plasma, those that say they've never had IR just haven't looked. I get IR all the time on both my Panasonic plasmas, more on my 42px60u than my 50pz800u. It isn't a problem though because I can only see it on a black screen with my face 18" from the screen. I have never been able to see it when viewing programming so I don't see it as a problem. I have the pixel orbiter on but never run the scrolling screen wipe feature, I just use my TV normally.


----------



## Merc_2k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/15445125
> 
> 
> I don't think you're doing anything wrong. You will get IR on a plasma, those that say they've never had IR just haven't looked. I get IR all the time on both my Panasonic plasmas, more on my 42px60u than my 50pz800u. It isn't a problem though because I can only see it on a black screen with my face 18" from the screen. I have never been able to see it when viewing programming so I don't see it as a problem. I have the pixel orbiter on but never run the scrolling screen wipe feature, I just use my TV normally.



Does it take very long to get rid of the IR on your sets?


The part that concerns me the most about this is that a lot of posters (here and on other websites) say it takes quite a while to get any IR at all and, when they do get it, it is wiped away in a few short minutes of putting on a show or movie. It doesn't seem to take long at all for me to get IR and it takes hours rather than minutes to get rid of it.


----------



## vazel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15445437
> 
> 
> Does it take very long to get rid of the IR on your sets?
> 
> 
> The part that concerns me the most about this is that a lot of posters (here and on other websites) say it takes quite a while to get any IR at all and, when they do get it, it is wiped away in a few short minutes of putting on a show or movie. It doesn't seem to take long at all for me to get IR and it takes hours rather than minutes to get rid of it.



Some people are just glossing over the IR problem. Right now I'm seeing IR on my Panasonic Viera TH-42PZ85U that is still there despite me watching 30 minutes of tv so no it won't wipe away in just a minute or two. The IR is only noticeable on a black screen.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15445437
> 
> 
> Does it take very long to get rid of the IR on your sets?
> 
> 
> The part that concerns me the most about this is that a lot of posters (here and on other websites) say it takes quite a while to get any IR at all and, when they do get it, it is wiped away in a few short minutes of putting on a show or movie. It doesn't seem to take long at all for me to get IR and it takes hours rather than minutes to get rid of it.



Sometimes it takes only a few seconds and sometimes it takes a few hours for the IR to disipate. I don't obsess over it because it has never been a real problem. I've had my 42px60u for over two and a half years and IR appears very quickly, sometimes after only a few seconds of displaying a static image, but it has never been visible on anything but an all-black screen and only from a couple of feet or closer. I've only had my 50pz800u for a few months but IR is definitely not as apparent as on my older Panny but it does appear. It doesn't interfere with normal viewing so it isn't a problem for me.


----------



## ricohman

IR happens. Just don't worry about it.

It lessens somewhat as the set gets older.

Lots of you younger folks won't remember what the old CRT's did when we first started gaming on them. IR was profound way back in the day as was burn in.

Just use your new set.

And the "break in" is a complete waste of your time. You will not lesen IR in the long run. But I won't poke fun at those who break in their tv's even though its not called for.

Just do what millions of others are doing.

Enjoy your set!


----------



## jacobp

Hello and happy new year. I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite KURO 141 and Pioneer BP51 BluRay player. I also have an older Sony DVD player (non-bluray) in my home theater system. I am using the DVD breakin disc provided in this forum and I'm about half way through the breakin period for my screen.


Until now, I've been using my new bluray player to conduct the breakin. Is there any reason why I shouldn't be using the older Sony DVD player for this procedure and thereby reduce the number of hours on the new bluray unit??


Thanks.


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jacobp* /forum/post/15454523
> 
> 
> Hello and happy new year. I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite KURO 141 and Pioneer BP51 BluRay player. I also have an older Sony DVD player (non-bluray) in my home theater system. I am using the DVD breakin disc provided in this forum and I'm about half way through the breakin period for my screen.
> 
> 
> Until now, I've been using my new bluray player to conduct the breakin. Is there any reason why I shouldn't be using the older Sony DVD player for this procedure and thereby reduce the number of hours on the new bluray unit??
> 
> 
> Thanks.



It does not matter what you use to break in your plasma. The quality of the image does not matter so you can use your older DVD player. The only requirement is that what you use fills the entire screen and does not have any still images/logos. In my case, I zoomed a tv channel to remove the logo and used it to break in the plasma.


----------



## Joey!

I'm running the DVD right now, and I had one query. Is it possible to set the brightness/contrast too low? I initially set it to about 30% and thought maybe its too low, so I have it about 40% now. Is there any advice on whats best? I have the PZ85. Thanks


----------



## joebloggs13

I purchased the samsung Pn50a400 a month ago and have just cracked the 200 hr mark. I have been careful with it up until now, breaking the set in gradually as per schedule listed on this site, and I am happy with the results. In the beginning I would play xbox on it for no more than an hour at a time and only every three or four days. Mainly watched regular programing in full screen mode. After playing lego indiana jones for an hour or so there was a little ghosting in the top right hand corner that at first took a couple of hours to disappear. I would run the anti burnin functions on the tv, which are a great feature on the sammy, and watch regular programs. This would clear it up. I stopped gaming on the set for the last week or so after reading a few more posts about stubborn IR that some people were getting. Yesterday I decided that enough time had elapsed and played xbox for a couple of hours. I was really pleased that the ghosting took less than a half hour to completely disappear, and its getting less and less. I think that no matter what brand you buy, for every story of a samsung with stubborn IR, I have read another about a panasonic or a pioneer with the same problem, which leads me to believe that all sets are relatively equal in this respect. The technology has come a long way and will continue to improve. So for now I will enjoy my set, and looking to the future I am going to stick to plasma, because I think you cant beat them for picture quality, whether its for games, movies, tv, whatever! My two cents, for what its worth.


----------



## Denz1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joebloggs13* /forum/post/15456802
> 
> 
> I purchased the samsung Pn50a400 a month ago and have just cracked the 200 hr mark. I have been careful with it up until now, breaking the set in gradually as per schedule listed on this site, and I am happy with the results. In the beginning I would play xbox on it for no more than an hour at a time and only every three or four days. Mainly watched regular programing in full screen mode. After playing lego indiana jones for an hour or so there was a little ghosting in the top right hand corner that at first took a couple of hours to disappear. I would run the anti burnin functions on the tv, which are a great feature on the sammy, and watch regular programs. This would clear it up. I stopped gaming on the set for the last week or so after reading a few more posts about stubborn IR that some people were getting. Yesterday I decided that enough time had elapsed and played xbox for a couple of hours. I was really pleased that the ghosting took less than a half hour to completely disappear, and its getting less and less. I think that no matter what brand you buy, for every story of a samsung with stubborn IR, I have read another about a panasonic or a pioneer with the same problem, which leads me to believe that all sets are relatively equal in this respect. The technology has come a long way and will continue to improve. So for now I will enjoy my set, and looking to the future I am going to stick to plasma, because I think you cant beat them for picture quality, whether its for games, movies, tv, whatever! My two cents, for what its worth.




Hey joebloggs13,


Glad to hear this post It's funny because I was planning on posting because I have this same samsung PNA400 a Panasonic pz80u and a Pioneer 110FD they all have aproximately 500 to 800 hours or so now and the samsung about 300 hours. I have been trying to keep track of how they compare with IR. and they all do show it to some degree when new then settle and now mostly broken in now.


Just this past weekend done a test and tuned them all to ESPN news and ran all 3 with static Images for aprox 30 min with simular brightness not torch mode, as I.E. run aprox 58 contrast on the samsung And then go to a blank screen there after then to a White screen to a gray screen and Pioneer shows none the Panasonic very little takes 10 min to dissipate and the Sammy it does strongly retain that ESPN logo clearly Though I know it's not permeant and that took about an hour to clear with normal viewing with the wiper maybe 20 min to fully clear..


The samsung has been running a lot and has maybe 200 hours less and has greatly improved since and don't even worry about it much anymore it's just more susceptible to it than any TV i have owned and lacking black level, hence the super low cost i paid







and it has a great picture so no Complaints here.

i do remember the Panasonic being sensitive to it first but quickly tamed away faster

will keep track of the Ir. and if it ever matches Ir resistance or the panasonic may take time but will post.










Den


----------



## ZBoomer

I don't think all plasmas are equal in this regard; I've only owned one plasma, my current Kuro 6010FD, and no matter what I do it doesn't have IR, much less burn-in.


I can play Rock Band for hours, or leave the same frozen image up, and no IR. At first I was paranoid, but I'm now convinced it's immune, so I don't worry any more.


I did do the "burn in" DVD for the first 100 hours, which I now read was probably a waste of electricity, but oh well, no harm done.


----------



## vazel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/15460165
> 
> 
> I don't think all plasmas are equal in this regard; I've only owned one plasma, my current Kuro 6010FD, and no matter what I do it doesn't have IR, much less burn-in.
> 
> 
> I can play Rock Band for hours, or leave the same frozen image up, and no IR. At first I was paranoid, but I'm now convinced it's immune, so I don't worry any more.
> 
> 
> I did do the "burn in" DVD for the first 100 hours, which I now read was probably a waste of electricity, but oh well, no harm done.



Sometimes I can't see the IR after watching brighter content until I let my eyes focus on a black screen for a while. I find it difficult to believe you can leave a static image on screen for hours without IR even the ones that gloss over the IR problem don't claim no-IR they just claim it goes away really fast within a few short minutes.


----------



## joebloggs13

I agree with vazel, I find it hard to believe that you wont get any kind of IR if you leave a static image for hours, no matter what set you have. There is a post by chief-j a few pages back. He owns a pioneer 4270 and has some some form of IR for the last 4 months. Has had it for only a year, and he claims to have left a static image on it for only an hour! I have reviewed a lot of posts on this site regarding IR, and it seems to me that this problem affects most. I haven't read that samsung owners have more problems than the rest, in fact its almost the opposite! I dont know why they get such bad publicity...mostly from non samsung owners hmmm... makes you think?!


----------



## joebloggs13

Double post


----------



## ZBoomer

Ok, if its there I've never SEEN it; what would I have to do to SEE the IR?


Play Rock Band for an hour, then a solid white screen or something?


I watched the NFL draft which had the bug, for all day, and didn't see any IR.


I also watch 4x3 content a lot, with the auto-gray sidebars, and have never noticed any IR from that. (My TV is an '08 Pio Kuro 6010FD.)


Note, I do not play a game or something then put up a test screen to LOOK for it, I just watch TV. Maybe it's there but I don't see it because I don't look for it, I just watch TV?


For gaming I run the "Game" mode on the TV, with contrast around 33 (default is 40.) I also run the TV on power save mode "2" all the time, which is the dimmest setting. Its plenty bright on that mode, so I see no reason to not use it. Only when doing quick a/b comparison can you even tell the mode is on. The TV pulls less than 300 watts in this mode.


Give me a good way to look for it, I'll give it a try.


----------



## joebloggs13

ZBoomer, I am just making a generalization about plasmas. All I am saying is that it is hit and miss. If you dont get any IR on your set then you are lucky. Some are not so fortunate. I am lucky as well, I got a little IR at the beginning but now I get hardly any at all. There are some who post on this board that have had problem after problem with their sets. Is it luck?? I dont know. Cheers. JoeB

P.S If you are really trying, if you turn of the signal on your set, with the blank screen(dark), if there is any IR it will show up in a dark room...if you look close. If not, then you have a fantastic set.


----------



## vazel

I just don't believe there are plasmas out there that don't have IR issues. I think every plasma has the potential for IR that lasts for minutes and hours. Maybe some are just lucky in never coming across the conditions that cause even the short term IR.


I've only had my Panasonic for one month and my opinion on IR isn't set in stone yet. I'll give it half a year before I settle on a definite opinion on this. The MediaPortal HTPC application with its default skin causes IR that lasts 30+ minutes on my set when I let it sit for a while I'll try that again in a few months.


----------



## ZBoomer

I'll try looking at the blank screen tonight when it gets dark, but to be honest, even if I see some I don't care. I've never seen it during normal viewing, and isn't that what matters?


I have a Samsung LCD TV in my bedroom, same year model as my Plasma, and the Plasma's overall picture is so superior , I wouldn't care if it had minor IR now and then.


----------



## joebloggs13

ZBoomer, that's exactly how I feel about this as well. I love the picture on my samsung, and I am not worried about IR and burnin anymore. Like you said I cant see anything either during normal viewing, it's only when I look really close, or when I AM looking for it, no matter how faint. I ask the wife if she can see anything and she says 'no!! stop worrying about it....the tv is fine!!' LOL I would find it hard to believe if burnin is really a factor anymore with these new sets.


----------



## tomnan24

Maybe it is luck. Daughters have Samsung and Panasonic both 720P models. Neither one worries or does anything to stop IR. Both have contrast between 75 and 80 and brightness in the 60's. They both have less than 75 hours and no break in done. I check their plasmas very carefully everytime I'm there and there is not even a hint(none,nada) of IR. I'll admit to not trying to put any static images on purpose, that would be nuts. If it's luck we'll take it.


----------



## Dave A.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/15463068
> 
> 
> I'll try looking at the blank screen tonight when it gets dark, but to be honest, even if I see some I don't care. I've never seen it during normal viewing, and isn't that what matters?



That sounds sensible. I have a Pioneer 4270 and I was very paranoid about IR while gaming. I would play for a couple of hours and then turn it to a blank input and put my head 12 inches from the screen to look at it. Then I'd watch full screen video for a while and then flip back to the blank screen to see how long it took to dissipate. I became self-aware after several months of this behavior. If the IR goes away after a few minutes and I can't see it unless I'm on a blank input and my head is up against the screen, why am I worrying? Since I stopped looking for hints of IR I've been enjoying my set a lot more.


----------



## Vegeta

I play games on my Plasma a lot. Do other members here do what I do and alternate between setting overscan on and off every 2 hours to prevent any stubborn IR or screenburn?


----------



## 4lpha

I've had my Samsung 50" 650 since early December. It's on for about 8 hours a day or so. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I do a fair amount of gaming on it and, my favorite, watch bluray movies in their original aspect ratios. Both of these activities in just scan which disables pixel shift. So far I'm very, very happy with the set and have not noticed any issues at all. I was paranoid of IR at first, looking for it everywhere all the time. It's not worth worrying about it. Any IR issues are quickly and easy to take off with the built in options in the TV or just by watching full screen content for a while.


I still take precautions not to cause IR. For instance, my contrast is set to 60% which is fine for a somewhat dark living room. Also, 4:3 channels are set to stretch to avoid black bars. SD channels look so poor compared to HD that I don't mind the stretch distortion. I rarely watch SD shows anymore anyway. If I pause a bluray or other content with top bars, I'll set the screen to scroll the white bars for protection. I even programmed a macro on my universal remote to activate the scrolling bars when I pause the PS3.


My experience has been good so far. And this is coming from someone with a DLP set in which IR was the least of my worries. Picture quality is unbeatable in plasma though, which is why I made the move. I feel the extra precautions necessary to take care of the set are worth the rewards.


----------



## ZBoomer

I tried to see IR last night; left a frozen split screen up for a long time, then switched to black screen. I don't think I saw anything; if I did it was to the point I wasn't sure if it was real or my eyes playing tricks on me.


If THIS is the IR I have to deal with, I'll take it. I've still never seen IR at all when viewing the TV, even after playing Rock Band for lengthy periods.


Also, who gives a rat's arse about IR anyway; it goes away and you can't even see it unless you try with a test pattern or screen. It's true burn-in that matters. When we bring the bar down to only IR being so bad, it makes the problem look a lot worse than it really is. Exactly what the plasma haters love.


----------



## greenjp

So yesterday I spent about 5 hours playing Gears of War 2 on my Panasonic 50PX77U. In the evening the wife and I watched a basketball game and some of the Ohio State vs. Texas game.


No HUDs, no score tickers, no logos to be seen. I can't see anything on the Xbox's bright white/green loading screen or dashboard, can't see anything on regular TV, don't see anything when I switch inputs. I look for 'em and they're just not there.


Now some buffoon may come on and demand that I take pictures of solid white, black, and gray screens to "prove" that there's no IR, I won't because that's idiotic. I use my TV to play games, watch movies, and watch TV. If nothing interferes with that I consider it a non-issue.


jeff


----------



## Merc_2k

I called Panasonic's concierge line to see if anything I had described in my previous posts ( 1 , 2 )was out of the ordinary. I was told that the IR I had was completely normal for the set and if static images are left on screen for any amount of time, they will be visible on the blank input for sometime after (depending on how long they were up).


I also asked if the time my set was taking to completely clear the IR was normal (playing a game for 1/2 to 2 hours and then taking 6-15+ hours of fullscreen content for the blank input IR to clear) and they said this wasn't anything unusual either.


The key is to mix in various kinds of content to try to lessen the IR, but I didn't have to completely clear it out in between sessions of the same game. Actual burn in could only happen if I played the same game for many hours every day, for a month or two, without anything else in between.


I can rest a little at this at least, but I am a chronic worrier, so I'm probably not going to be completely relaxed about my TV for a while.


----------



## wrj54

I just got a 50PZ85 and I'm a Directv user. I've read about break-in for the first 100 hours and have setup accordingly (Cinema, pic


----------



## brentsg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vazel* /forum/post/15463049
> 
> 
> I just don't believe there are plasmas out there that don't have IR issues.



Tell that to my Pioneer 5010. It's been used exclusively for games and that's about all it's ever seen.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wrj54* /forum/post/15492132
> 
> 
> I just got a 50PZ85 and I'm a Directv user. I've read about break-in for the first 100 hours and have setup accordingly (Cinema, pic


----------



## wrj54




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15494212
> 
> 
> What's important is that you whatever you're watching is full screen - no letter box or side bars. If it's a normal HD show, it'll be full screen to begin with so the normal Full setting is fine. You do have DirecTV HD right? If it's a 4:3 format show or a letterbox movie you'll want to use one of the stretch or zoom modes.
> 
> 
> jeff



Thanks Jeff


Yes, it is HD service.


----------



## arice727

I picked up a Panasonic plasma today and am planning to return the Samsung LCD I purchased last week. The PQ, viewing angle, and lack of motion blur made me decide to go with the plasma, but now I'm having second thoughts. We tend to leave our TV on a lot during the day, oftentimes just for background noise. Because of this, I'm wondering if I would be better off keeping the LCD so I don't have to worry about leaving CNN or ESPN for several hours at a time on during the day and ending up with burn in or IR. Thoughts?


----------



## joebloggs13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *arice727* /forum/post/15504372
> 
> 
> I picked up a Panasonic plasma today and am planning to return the Samsung LCD I purchased last week. The PQ, viewing angle, and lack of motion blur made me decide to go with the plasma, but now I'm having second thoughts. We tend to leave our TV on a lot during the day, oftentimes just for background noise. Because of this, I'm wondering if I would be better off keeping the LCD so I don't have to worry about leaving CNN or ESPN for several hours at a time on during the day and ending up with burn in or IR. Thoughts?



I wouldn't worry too much about IR if watching cnn/espn is all you are going to do. Just watch in full screen mode for the first couple hundred hours, until the phosphors are broken in. I used to think like you about lcd over plasma, but since I bought a plasma, there is no comparison PQwise. IR is just that and not the other...BI. If you do get some, it will go away. Just mix up your viewing and use the set's antiburn functions, which are great. Very easy to do. And if your set will be on a lot, it wont take long to reach that 200hr mark!! Enjoy. JoeB.


----------



## ddardani

I am almost 5 days into my 150 hr. break-in of my Pioneer 6020. A few more days to go. Are people leaving their sets on all day and all night like me? I am wondering if I need to turn the set off just to give a rest; it has been running non stop since Monday evening. What are people doing in general? Leaving it on constantly (at work, while sleeping, 24/7) or breaking-it-in in chunks or blocks of time both powering it off ocasionally. Is there a danger of overheating or overworking them? (Even the store displays get some rest overnight)


Thx


----------



## joebloggs13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ddardani* /forum/post/15507803
> 
> 
> I am almost 5 days into my 150 hr. break-in of my Pioneer 6020. A few more days to go. Are people leaving their sets on all day and all night like me? I am wondering if I need to turn the set off just to give a rest; it has been running non stop since Monday evening. What are people doing in general? Leaving it on constantly (at work, while sleeping, 24/7) or breaking-it-in in chunks or blocks of time both powering it off ocasionally. Is there a danger of overheating or overworking them? (Even the store displays get some rest overnight)
> 
> 
> Thx



I didn't leave mine on 24/7, but it was on for about 8to 10 hrs a day, and still is. My set has never gotten hot. It just gets a little warm on top, and that's after a good 8 hrs of being on. I have heard that some sets can get very hot. You can find more info on this in some other threads that are brand specific on this subject.


----------



## sewerdog

new to plasma am getting the panasonic th46px80u and am not a gamer do I still need to break it in and how do i do it cannot download the burn in dvd no dvd burner, do i have to leave it on all the time


----------



## JChin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sewerdog* /forum/post/15514425
> 
> 
> new to plasma am getting the panasonic th46px80u and am not a gamer do I still need to break it in and how do i do it cannot download the burn in dvd no dvd burner, do i have to leave it on all the time



Go and read up on page 1 of this thread and the link attached by Fr.John


----------



## Groid

Thanks for this!


Have a new 50A650 and ran the slides from a USB drive for about 3 weeks while I was at work. Picture looks awesome.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sewerdog* /forum/post/15514425
> 
> 
> new to plasma am getting the panasonic th46px80u and am not a gamer do I still need to break it in and how do i do it cannot download the burn in dvd no dvd burner, do i have to leave it on all the time



Are you sure it's not the 46pz80u? The px series only has a 42" and a 50" model. The px series is 720p and the pz series is 1080p.


If you read through this thread you will get plenty of information on break-in procedures. Personally, all I did to my two and a half year old Panasonic 42px60u and my three month old 50pz800u was to keep contrast and brightness at around 50% and not display black bars or static images for more than a couple of hours straight. I varied my programming and used the TVs pretty normally otherwise. After the first 100 hours I threw caution to the wind and never gave it another thought. Both these units have performed flawlessly, you will get a little IR but it goes away pretty quickly and is not visible during normal viewing. I have only seen it when looking for it on an all-black screen with a blank input.


Enjoy your new TV and welcome to the forum.


----------



## jblevin

Hello, we got our Panasonic TH-46PZ800U about a week ago. I just went into the service menu for the first time to check the on-time and I'm at 106 hours. At least half of that was on EA's plasma break in DVD. No gaming (and none planned) and no IR observed to-date. Am I good to go, or should I keep going with break-in mode until 200 hours? Thanks!


----------



## Joey!

I just completed my first 100 hours on my PZ85, and I have must used the breakin DVD for about 60 hours or so. Only one problem, that might have an impact or not. I forgot that I had enabled overscan off on the PC input through DVI so when I viewed some films through my pc during the first 100 hours I had tiny black bars (about 1 inch at the top and bottom). I must have played about 8 hours through this mode Am I safe? I only viewed films through this way. I have been extremely careful not to play stations with big logos etc, and ran the breakin DVD when ever I could. Just hope I haven't caused any burnin in the top/bottom of the TV, I can't see any difference in shade when viewing blank screens such as the breakin DVD. But one thing, in the black screen (standby of the different inputs) and during black scenes, I can notice a slightly lighter shade of a slight 1 inch line at the top and bottom of the screen. After reading the reports on here, I have become really paranoid :lol: I'm guessing it might be a bit of image retention, and not burnin. Even on a new TV I'm guessing that 8 hours viewing with tiny black bars would not be enough to cause burnin?


I kept the contrast/brightness to about 35-40% or so, all the time. Just really hope that one silly error hasn't ruined my hard work, and also the TV







Is it likely?


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ddardani* /forum/post/15507803
> 
> 
> I am almost 5 days into my 150 hr. break-in of my Pioneer 6020. A few more days to go. Are people leaving their sets on all day and all night like me? I am wondering if I need to turn the set off just to give a rest; it has been running non stop since Monday evening. What are people doing in general? Leaving it on constantly (at work, while sleeping, 24/7) or breaking-it-in in chunks or blocks of time both powering it off ocasionally. Is there a danger of overheating or overworking them? (Even the store displays get some rest overnight)
> 
> 
> Thx



After ~100 hours your set is pretty much done with the break in procedure.


Enjoy your set.


----------



## Kev_NZ

Hey guys,


I was wondering if you could help me out by answering one simple question.


Here's my situation:


YESTERDAY

-My brand new LG 50pg20 arrives. As soon as I had it out of the box, I spent about 4-5 hours gaming on my xbox 360 (a variety of games, full-screen) on FACTORY settings (Contrast 100%, Brightness 50%).


TODAY

-I discover this forum and the concept of 'breaking-in' a plasma screen - in particular, low contrast settings.


MY QUESTION

-So I've clocked up 4-5 hours on my 50pg20 so far with my xbox 360 on full-screen, with the contrast set on 100% (when it should initially be below 50%)...


...Have I done any damage?



PS:

I'm just being paranoid, right?



Peace,

Kev


----------



## skyboost

Can anyone tell me if this is normal or not. I have IR or burn-in, but it only appears when I'm switching channels. When the TV pauses and goes black when switching from one channel to the next, there's weird dark grey splotches in a few spots in the black, and I can see IR from the menu. This doesn't appear ever when I'm watching a show or anything like that so it's not a problem, but I don't know if I should do something about it. I can watch a show that is dark and fills the screen with black and it doesn't show, but when I'm switching channels you can see it flash for a second. I have a Sasmsung 42' plasma btw. PN42a400.


----------



## greenjp

I'll try to hit several of these recent questions:


skyboost:

you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Seeing those ghosts/outlines/blobs when you switch to a blank screen is very common and nothing to worry about. It has nothing to do with the things that would cause any burn in problems.


Kev_NZ:

If you don't see any image retention of logos/HUDs/menus then you have nothing to worry about. I would recommend reducing your contrast and being diligent about making sure everything is full screen, but if you don't see any ill effects then there aren't any.










Joey!:

You'll be a test case







My bet is you'll see in the next day or so that the difference you see in those letterbox bars will be gone, but do keep us informed. Burn in from letterbox or pillar box bars should only occur after a very long time with a high percentage of overall viewing done in those modes. The theory is that the phosphors undergo some sort of accelerated aging (I don't understand but that's what "they" say) in the first hundred hours or so, so it's like they're getting extra wear during the early hours, hence the suggestion to only watch full screen content and avoid too many static images. Your story could prove useful for explaining the reasons for break in precautions but also the resiliency of these TVs.


jeff


----------



## skyboost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15538906
> 
> 
> I'll try to hit several of these recent questions:



Thanks for the help.


----------



## achavez2k6

Hey guys, ive read through your posts and just not sure what i should do... Im looking at purchasing a Panasonic 46 pz80u Before the superbowl and will be using it mostly 4 gaming... I am a gamer and for sure i will be playing game on it from day 1,I Wanted a plasma for PQ and lack of motion blur but i dont want 2 have to spend 100hrs before i game on it So for this reason i was considering LCD =/ just so i dont have to worry about all this.... Is this enough of a reason for me not 2 get the panasonic plasma and go lcd???? i just need some advice thanks ahead of time - THOUGHTS...


----------



## joebloggs13

Get the plasma, you wont regret it. There are people on this board that have bought plasmas from (panasonic, samsung,LG, pioneer)and gamed on them right away. You just have to mix it up a bit in the first 100-200 hrs until you get your set broken in, that's all. The picturer quality on a plasma, especially for sports, cannot be beat by LCD. I would stick with the plasma. Enjoy.


----------



## thrand1

This may be more of a general observation/question on BI/IR, so bear with me.


After examining the lineup of new plasma TVs released at CES, I have to wonder if there is going to be any more progress on the subject of IR/BI prevention. Yes, there are orbiters and screen wipe patterns that have been somewhat sufficient, but here is my question- is IR/BI ALWAYS going to be a concern for plasma, or is there room for technologies akin to orbiters that could eliminate this problem entirely?


I'm in the market for a new TV, and of course I am attempting to do as much research as possible. I like to play video games, but not for extended sessions. I love to watch movies and TV, and most of my movies are ones with "the black bars" on them. As much as I've read about plasmas being less likely to have IR/BI after the first 100-200 hours of use, I still feel a little reluctant to purchase one. Even with things like orbiters and screen wipes, is IR/BI "here to stay" due to the fundamental characteristics of plasmas, or do you all think there's the potential for even better things to combat it? I just fear that if I purchased a plasma, I might worry too much about the TV to enjoy it. Like I said before, I am no fanboy of LCD or plasma, I've just been thinking over this a lot before.


In summary, here's my main question that any of you can answer- CES brought us plasmas that are thinner and use less power, why the lack of additional utilities to combat BI/IR and thus attract even more people who might choose an alternative display over plasma because of the fear of BI/IR? Is an orbiter/screen wipe/full screen content the best we can do? As a potential plasma owner, I thought I'd throw this out there because I didn't know if BI/IR will always be a part of plasma or if there could be room for improvement.


Thanks for your thoughts on this matter.


----------



## Mr.Malmsteen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15445437
> 
> 
> Does it take very long to get rid of the IR on your sets?
> 
> 
> The part that concerns me the most about this is that a lot of posters (here and on other websites) say it takes quite a while to get any IR at all and, when they do get it, it is wiped away in a few short minutes of putting on a show or movie. It doesn't seem to take long at all for me to get IR and it takes hours rather than minutes to get rid of it.



Don't believe everything you read man. I never do and have to find out from experience. Plasmas kick ass and are the real thing but plain and simple..you can't play games on them that's all there is to it.


I have a Samsung 50" and I love it but after almost 2 years I still get IR if I play a game on it so I solved that by NOT playing any games on it.


Very simple problem to solve if you ask me.


----------



## Mr.Malmsteen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *achavez2k6* /forum/post/15539802
> 
> 
> Hey guys, ive read through your posts and just not sure what i should do... Im looking at purchasing a Panasonic 46 pz80u Before the superbowl and will be using it mostly 4 gaming... I am a gamer and for sure i will be playing game on it from day 1,I Wanted a plasma for PQ and lack of motion blur but i dont want 2 have to spend 100hrs before i game on it So for this reason i was considering LCD =/ just so i dont have to worry about all this.... Is this enough of a reason for me not 2 get the panasonic plasma and go lcd???? i just need some advice thanks ahead of time - THOUGHTS...



Don't do it, not if it's for alot of gaming. You'll regret it man trust me on this. If it's for sports and movies then plasma all the way and enjoy.


Again, don't game on it.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Malmsteen* /forum/post/15549157
> 
> 
> Plasmas kick ass and are the real thing but plain and simple..you can't play games on them that's all there is to it.



This is simply incorrect. There are a ton of people who game all the time on their plasmas with no ill-effects. I'm one of them. I don't know what the deal is with your particular set, but I have a 1 year old Panasonic that I game on all the time and have absolutely no burn in and never notice IR of HUDs, menus, etc. It simply does not happen on my set, and there's countless other folks here who have the same experience with theirs.


jeff


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15550695
> 
> 
> This is simply incorrect. There are a ton of people who game all the time on their plasmas with no ill-effects. I'm one of them. I don't know what the deal is with your particular set, but I have a 1 year old Panasonic that I game on all the time and have absolutely no burn in and never notice IR of HUDs, menus, etc. It simply does not happen on my set, and there's countless other folks here who have the same experience with theirs.
> 
> 
> jeff



I have a newer Pioneer that I game on ALL THE TIME. 5-6 hours at a time with no breaks. No IR. Awesome set, no way would I go LCD and suffer the problems that LCD have. Pioneer's orbitter is stunning. A pioneer tech said that the worry of IR is non-existent with the IR on.


----------



## ZBoomer

^^^ Totally agree. I play Rock Band for hours on my Pio Plasma, without IR, much less burn-in.


On new-year's eve I took my PS3 and Samsung LCD over to my friend's house who was having a party. First time I'd hooked the PS3 up to the LCD, as its usually on my Plasma. I was stunned how much worse game play was with the LCD motion blur. You could barely read the lyrics of the songs scrolling across the time, BAD.


----------



## joebloggs13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/15554710
> 
> 
> ^^^ Totally agree. I play Rock Band for hours on my Pio Plasma, without IR, much less burn-in.
> 
> 
> On new-year's eve I took my PS3 and Samsung LCD over to my friend's house who was having a party. First time I'd hooked the PS3 up to the LCD, as its usually on my Plasma. I was stunned how much worse game play was with the LCD motion blur. You could barely read the lyrics of the songs scrolling across the time, BAD.



On this particular thread I think you are preaching to the converted







PLasma rules!


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15550695
> 
> 
> This is simply incorrect. There are a ton of people who game all the time on their plasmas with no ill-effects. I'm one of them. I don't know what the deal is with your particular set, but I have a 1 year old Panasonic that I game on all the time and have absolutely no burn in and never notice IR of HUDs, menus, etc. It simply does not happen on my set, and there's countless other folks here who have the same experience with theirs.
> 
> 
> jeff



Thanks u just made it that much easier to be confident walking in and getting that panasonic plasma i been dieing to hook up to my xbox!


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *achavez2k6* /forum/post/15559149
> 
> 
> Thanks u just made it that much easier to be confident walking in and getting that panasonic plasma i been dieing to hook up to my xbox!



You're going to love it, I upgraded this time last year and have been really happy with it. Follow some modest precautions and you won't have anything to worry about:

- set the TV's no activity shut off timer. This will cause the TV to turn itself off after a while in case you fall asleep or accidentally leave it on.

- turn on the 360's screen saver. This dims the screen after a period of inactivity

- Put the set in Standard or Normal mode and for the first couple of weeks make sure your contrast/"picture" setting is at about 50%.


After a couple of weeks go ahead and plug in some settings from your set's owner's thread here or the CNet review and enjoy.


jeff


----------



## PTree

So I've been running the break-in images via the SD card, but I failed to notice any instructions on duration for the slides, so I set it to 1 (second, I presume). I've been running this at night for about 6-8 hours for the last few weeks.


I just noticed a post recommending 30 seconds per slide. I suspect it's not a big deal, but is there any harm in the way I've been doing it? Should I run the break-in slides for another 100 hours with the setting at 30 seconds?


FYI: I have a Panasonic 42PZ80u.


Thanks.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTree* /forum/post/15565530
> 
> 
> So I've been running the break-in images via the SD card, but I failed to notice any instructions on duration for the slides, so I set it to 1 (second, I presume). I've been running this at night for about 6-8 hours for the last few weeks.
> 
> 
> I just noticed a post recommending 30 seconds per slide. I suspect it's not a big deal, but is there any harm in the way I've been doing it? Should I run the break-in slides for another 100 hours with the setting at 30 seconds?
> 
> 
> FYI: I have a Panasonic 42PZ80u.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



No.


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTree* /forum/post/15565530
> 
> 
> So I've been running the break-in images via the SD card, but I failed to notice any instructions on duration for the slides, so I set it to 1 (second, I presume). I've been running this at night for about 6-8 hours for the last few weeks.
> 
> 
> I just noticed a post recommending 30 seconds per slide. I suspect it's not a big deal, but is there any harm in the way I've been doing it? Should I run the break-in slides for another 100 hours with the setting at 30 seconds?
> 
> 
> FYI: I have a Panasonic 42PZ80u.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



lol ...


----------



## PTree




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *achavez2k6* /forum/post/15571547
> 
> 
> lol ...



I don't get why that's funny. It was a serious question. I know the possibility of it doing damage is low, but I genuinely wasn't sure if there was some reason people recommended the 30 second duration on the slides.


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTree* /forum/post/15571668
> 
> 
> I don't get why that's funny. It was a serious question. I know the possibility of it doing damage is low, but I genuinely wasn't sure if there was some reason people recommended the 30 second duration on the slides.



lol @ " Should I run the break-in slides for another 100 hours with the setting at 30 seconds? "


Thats alittle overkill dont u think?


----------



## fatbottom

I'd burn in the set for 20,000 hours before you use start to use it.


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572031
> 
> 
> I'd burn in the set for 20,000 hours before you use start to use it.



Someone will actually read this and do it lol


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/15554710
> 
> 
> ^^^ Totally agree. I play Rock Band for hours on my Pio Plasma, without IR, much less burn-in.
> 
> 
> On new-year's eve I took my PS3 and Samsung LCD over to my friend's house who was having a party. First time I'd hooked the PS3 up to the LCD, as its usually on my Plasma. I was stunned how much worse game play was with the LCD motion blur. You could barely read the lyrics of the songs scrolling across the time, BAD.



Probably left in default processing or movie/motion plus. A well setup LCD can look very good. It's one thing to notice blurring on fast FPS but not on scrolling text.


Gaming on a plasma is too risky still IMO.


----------



## Gumbi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572252
> 
> 
> Probably left in default processing or movie/motion plus. A well setup LCD can look very good. It's one thing to notice blurring on fast FPS but not on scrolling text.
> 
> 
> Gaming on a plasma is too risky still IMO.



I game on my Pioneer plasma everyday with absolutely no IR or burn-in.


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gumbi* /forum/post/15572451
> 
> 
> I game on my Pioneer plasma everyday with absolutely no IR or burn-in.




For The Win!!


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gumbi* /forum/post/15572451
> 
> 
> I game on my Pioneer plasma everyday with absolutely no IR or burn-in.



Sorry don't take the word of members, I know first hand most people wouldn't be able to notice if I mess up settings, or if the screen has some kind of picture problem such as burn in, blotches, or misconverge a projector. My Pioneer had 4:3 uneven wear and that was only after a short use with 4:3, so the opposite (white icons) would be even more likely to burn in.


----------



## achavez2k6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572611
> 
> 
> Sorry don't take the word of members, I know first hand most people wouldn't be able to notice if I mess up settings, or if the screen has some kind of picture problem such as burn in, blotches, or misconverge a projector. My Pioneer had 4:3 uneven wear and that was only after a short use with 4:3, so the opposite (white icons) would be even more likely to burn in.



everyone is entitled to thier own opinion


----------



## ZBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572611
> 
> 
> Sorry don't take the word of members, I know first hand most people wouldn't be able to notice if I mess up settings, or if the screen has some kind of picture problem such as burn in, blotches, or misconverge a projector. My Pioneer had 4:3 uneven wear and that was only after a short use with 4:3, so the opposite (white icons) would be even more likely to burn in.



I notice you're in the UK; the Plasma's sent to the states don't burn in, didn't they tell you that?


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572031
> 
> 
> I'd burn in the set for 20,000 hours before you use start to use it.



Burn in??? I hope not.

















I hope you meant Break in...


----------



## skyboost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15538906
> 
> 
> I'll try to hit several of these recent questions:
> 
> 
> skyboost:
> 
> you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Seeing those ghosts/outlines/blobs when you switch to a blank screen is very common and nothing to worry about. It has nothing to do with the things that would cause any burn in problems.



I'm back... I know you said it isn't something to worry about, but is there still a way to get rid of it? It becomes really noticeable when I'm watching a movie/game trailer that fades to a blank screen a lot. Here's a video that really looks funny because of it, [LINK] . At 00:20 in, it fades to black, and it does that like 10 more times. Everytime it fades to black, the blank screen with the blobs will show up. Really annoying.


EDIT: NVM, i just used the scrolling thing and it went away.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15572611
> 
> 
> Sorry don't take the word of members



Exactly.


----------



## LA_Sportsman

Alright, I've scanned most of the thread and tried to mostly read the last ten pages for answers. I may watch 10 hours of college fb on a Saturday with no problem mostly because of frequent (and annoying) commercials. However, I'm getting IR on top and bottom bars from a 2 hour movie that takes 4 hours to go away and having trouble with tickers.


Not a noob - here's my setup.


Pioneer 5070 purchased April 2007

User calibrated using Avia (settings not that different from normal)

Did break in of 100 hours with full screen content


Situation:


I've been actively using the tv for almost two years now with no severe IR issues, just the normal stuff that goes away after a few hours of full screen. It seems however, that IR is becoming more of a problem.


I have two theories, with the second being far more likely.

1. IR can arise as tv ages if abused (deployed for 8 mos and at some point the family accidentally switched it to torch. Reset immediately on my return 3 mos ago. IR seems to be worse than before.


2. High Def content intensifies risk of IR.

* Watch lots of Fox News in SD and as long as I don't keep it in 4:3 all the time I'm fine.

* Watched movies for a year with an old Sony DVD player that had a great picture but wasn't an upconverting DVD player.

* Watched CNBC in HD for two hours the other day and had the worst IR problem to date. I could still read the logos after switching to Discovery HD (my standard IR solution).

* I now have a PS3 and a two hour movie producing IR bars that are viewable for an hour while watching bright content and several hours on a dark, no source screen).


I don't have problems with games because Far Cry 2 and Call of Duty 4 don't have consistent HUDS.


Has anyone else experienced a greater IR problem with HD tickers or blu-ray movies? I'd been waiting for Fox News HD but not so sure anymore. To my knowledge, the 5070 doesn't have a pixel orbiter.


----------



## platinum_trunks

My problem is the final fantasy games on the ps2 will leave behind IR even after playing for like 30 minutes. Should I just not worry about it and continue to play? I have a pz50800u


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTree* /forum/post/15565530
> 
> 
> So I've been running the break-in images via the SD card, but I failed to notice any instructions on duration for the slides, so I set it to 1 (second, I presume). I've been running this at night for about 6-8 hours for the last few weeks.
> 
> 
> I just noticed a post recommending 30 seconds per slide. I suspect it's not a big deal, but is there any harm in the way I've been doing it? Should I run the break-in slides for another 100 hours with the setting at 30 seconds?
> 
> 
> FYI: I have a Panasonic 42PZ80u.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



You are wasting your time and electricity............


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZBoomer* /forum/post/15554710
> 
> 
> ^^^ Totally agree. I play Rock Band for hours on my Pio Plasma, without IR, much less burn-in.
> 
> 
> On new-year's eve I took my PS3 and Samsung LCD over to my friend's house who was having a party. First time I'd hooked the PS3 up to the LCD, as its usually on my Plasma. I was stunned how much worse game play was with the LCD motion blur. You could barely read the lyrics of the songs scrolling across the time, BAD.



Something must be wrong with your PS3 or LCD.

We have a 40 inch LCD and two 42 Plasmas that we have used our PS3 on.

There is no difference in game play and we can read everything clearly.

Maybe you have a really old LCD with a high refresh rate?

None of the LCD's built in the last few years do this.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ddardani* /forum/post/15507803
> 
> 
> I am almost 5 days into my 150 hr. break-in of my Pioneer 6020. A few more days to go. Are people leaving their sets on all day and all night like me? I am wondering if I need to turn the set off just to give a rest; it has been running non stop since Monday evening. What are people doing in general? Leaving it on constantly (at work, while sleeping, 24/7) or breaking-it-in in chunks or blocks of time both powering it off ocasionally. Is there a danger of overheating or overworking them? (Even the store displays get some rest overnight)
> 
> 
> Thx



You should ask Pioneer this question.

But they will think you are way out there. None of the major manufactures insist on any type of "break in" these days.

Just watching movies/tv is enough to settle your new set in.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15601858
> 
> 
> You are wasting your time and electricity............



Come on, don't be shy, tell us how you really feel.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15602083
> 
> 
> Come on, don't be shy, tell us how you really feel.



I am the "anti break-in crusader".

After buying a couple of plasma's last year and doing nothing but use them. And both have seen heavy gaming. This "break-in" thing has gone to far. Our latest set was hooked to the PS3 for it's "break-in".

Seriously, this guy has been running images for 8 hours every night for 3 weeks? Bizarre.

My brother has the same set as this guy. He took it out of the box and used it. And he was gaming on it the same day he unboxed it.

My old dad just used his after we set it up. Do you think the majority of comsumers actually go through this bizarre ritual of 3 weeks of break-in images?

Nothing wrong with watching tv for a bit to settle it in, but anything else is just a waste of your time and electricity.

Rant done.


----------



## Pepster returns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15604236
> 
> 
> I am the "anti break-in crusader".
> 
> After buying a couple of plasma's last year and doing nothing but use them. And both have seen heavy gaming. This "break-in" thing has gone to far. Our latest set was hooked to the PS3 for it's "break-in".
> 
> Seriously, this guy has been running images for 8 hours every night for 3 weeks? Bizarre.
> 
> My brother has the same set as this guy. He took it out of the box and used it. And he was gaming on it the same day he unboxed it.
> 
> My old dad just used his after we set it up. Do you think the majority of comsumers actually go through this bizarre ritual of 3 weeks of break-in images?
> 
> Nothing wrong with watching tv for a bit to settle it in, but anything else is just a waste of your time and electricity.
> 
> Rant done.



+1


100hrs break in = 100 hrs less viewing time before your telly wears out, and 100hrs wasted electricity.


Do you want the manufacturer to honour you warranty ??


If yes, then just follow the manufacturer's break in guidelines - to do anything other wise could all end in tears.


BTW - coloured slide shows - this beggars belief - a mid grey actually drives the R,G and B elements equally - isn't this what the burn-in brigade want ?


----------



## jmschnur




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15601886
> 
> 
> You should ask Pioneer this question.
> 
> But they will think you are way out there. None of the major manufactures insist on any type of "break in" these days.
> 
> Just watching movies/tv is enough to settle your new set in.



I am doing about 4 hours a day of the break in plus normal viewing.


Joel


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pepster returns* /forum/post/15609009
> 
> 
> Do you want the manufacturer to honour you warranty ??
> 
> If yes, then just follow the manufacturer's break in guidelines - to do anything other wise could all end in tears.



And if the manufacturer has conflicting or ambigous guidelines? Or simply excludes "permanent" IR from warranty?


Clearly this is something one needs to carefully assess before purchase not after you get the TV home and start fretting after reading an AVS thread.


----------



## pcschwenke

I've been lurking for quite a while about this topic. About a month ago I purchased a 42PZ80u and knew that IR maybe a problem especially within the first 100 hours. I downloaded the pictures to break in the plasma but, never used it. I'd say 1/2 of the time so far has been playing the Wii. All the while I've been stressed.


The TV now has around 115 hours on it with no issues of IR or burn in. Being an Engineer & running a Photography business, I am very picky. Now that I write this I hope I'm not jinxing myself. I'm not sure how common IR is but, I think it may be over-rated. Just my 2 cents.


Paul


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcschwenke* /forum/post/15614991
> 
> 
> I've been lurking for quite a while about this topic. About a month ago I purchased a 42PZ80u and knew that IR maybe a problem especially within the first 100 hours. I downloaded the pictures to break in the plasma but, never used it. I'd say 1/2 of the time so far has been playing the Wii. All the while I've been stressed.
> 
> 
> The TV now has around 115 hours on it with no issues of IR or burn in. Being an Engineer & running a Photography business, I am very picky. Now that I write this I hope I'm not jinxing myself. I'm not sure how common IR is but, I think it may be over-rated. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> 
> Paul



You are using the set the way it was ment to be.

Not running some weird ritualistic "break in" for 3 weeks with alternating slides. Sheesh.

IR can happen to plasma. So what. In nearly all the cases you will not notice it. But someone may ask you to turn off all the lights, at night, and run white/grey/black screens with your face right up the the set and look for IR. Tell them to get a life.......

IR disappears with regular viewing. And its nothing to fret about.

Its a TV. Its meant to be used as one!


----------



## maul528

Hi all, I just bought a TH-42PZ85U Panasonic plasma & I have a few questions.

I'm about 78 hrs into the "Break in" period. I'm just looping different blu-ray movies.


1. Is 100 hrs good enough or should i give it a little longer before cranking up the picture?


2.After the break in procedure is complete, how anal retentive do I need to be about Image retention?

I mean can I watch a few letter box movies back to back without worry? Can I play a video game for 3 hrs without concern? How cautious do I need to be?


3. Pixel Wobble/Orbiting. Should I leave this on auto or do the 2min 4min? Will I notice the orbiting?


I wasn't sure where to post this...

I may have some more Qs but that's all I can think of now.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maul528* /forum/post/15617535
> 
> 
> I just bought a TH-42PZ85U
> 
> 
> I wasn't sure where to post this...
> 
> I may have some more Qs but that's all I can think of now.



See the Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Owners Thread

"break-in" FAQ 


Panasonic has a wealth of documentation on their site.

Any number of people suggest that break-in is a waste of time, that you shouldn't worry about what you watch and that you shouldn't "crank" it up.


Any number of other people will tell you the complete opposite.


And another set of peope will, amazingly enough, tell you something orthogonal to both of those positions.


Panasonic says (generic plasma faq) :


> Quote:
> The rule of thumb: if you don't worry about your traditional tube TV, you don't have to worry about a Panasonic plasma TV.


----------



## draggcj



IS THIS PERMANENT BURN IN?


We have a 16 month old Panasonic plasma. The 75x model. We have been very satisfied with this TV since day one. We have noticed image retention on several occasions, but it was always temporary. Back around the XMAS holidays I came home after work to find my mother in law working in the kitchen and the kids playing upstairs. The TV was on in the family room with a 4:3 program on. Mom in law did not know the tv was on and didn't know how long it had been on (could have been all day for all I know!!). I shut it off.


Approx. 3 hours later I turn it on to watch a hockey game with a full 16:9 image. I notice that the sides of the image (where the 4:3 side bars were) are a brighter white than the middle 4:3 image section, which appears to be a grayish-white. Forgive me if my terminology is wrong. Not sure how else to describe it. Please see attached document for reference. I exaggerated the darker and lighter parts of the image, it's not this dramatic but is definitely there.


Now, approx 3- 4 weeks later this issue is still present. Thankfully, it's only really noticeable on a white 16:9 image. It is especially noticeable when watching a hockey game or a skiing video, and sometimes during things like cartoons with bright colors.


The 4:3 side bars were set to medium gray. Now if it were burn in from the side bars, I would think that the sides of the image would be darker than the middle 4:3 section, not brighter. If it were the 4:3 image burned in; I would think that I would see some sort of program image, with varying shades of gray and images or words burned in. I don't see any of this. I know in the past our cable box has froze-up and a stationary image was left on the TV. We can just jump up to the next channel and this would cure the problem. I suppose this could have happened earlier that day, and an image could have been left on for an extended period of time, since no one was actually watching the TV- for I don't know how long. But, if this had happened it seems like I would actually see some sort of image burned in and not just the middle 4:3 section being a darker shade of white/gray than the sidebars.


Also, the manual says not to leave the TV on in 4:3 mode for an extended period as this could cause image retention. If this is even a possibilty why would panasonic even let you put the TV in that mode? Why not just have it always default to 16:9? This tv always defaults to 4:3. If I change the image to 16:9 and turn it off; when I turn it back on it will be back in 4:3 mode. Seems like poor engineering or something.


Lastly, anyone have any ideas on whether or not this is permanent burn-in? And if so what the likely cause was? We are now in the market for a 50-52" tv for the basement, but now I'm hesitant to buy another plasma. Will the issue explained above be avoidable or fixable with the new generation of plasmas?


Sorry for ramblin. Thank you in advance

 

75x.doc 19k . file


----------



## Vythiel

There's no way to know if what you have is permanent burn-in or really bad image retention. I should be able to answer a couple of your questions though. The reason the middle is slightly darker than the edges is because it was displaying the video content and the phospors there were being aged, where as the side bars were displaying nothing and aged to a far lesser extent. Furthermore, since you're viewing full-screen content, the phospors are still aging at about the same rate, so the side-bars will still be slightly lighter than the center (4:3) section.


The reason 4:3 exists is because the format is still used in today's video media and many viewers don't want to watch such content with a streched image. Not all TVs default to 4:3 mode when turned on, so I'm not sure why yours does this. You may want to check if there is a setting that detects the input format and automatically sets the aspect ratio based on the signal received. My TV has this feature, but I generally disable it and select my own default setting. Maybe someone else on these forums has the (I'm guessing) PX75 model and will know if such a toggle is present.


I'm not sure if you'll be able to get rid of the IR completely. You could try to running the Break-In DVD for a while and see if that reduces it. Chances are there will always be a trace of the sidebars on bright scenes if you look hard enough.


----------



## The Natural

That's crazy that there is still a chance of burn in that far into the panels life. Is this something all plasma owners have to be aware of regardless of how much the panel has been "broken-in"?


----------



## Vythiel

When plasmas were first released, burn-in was a very serious issue. This has been improved with each generation to the point that the 2008 models have extremely few burn-in incidents reported (The PX75 is a 2007 model). It is still possible to have burn-in if any bright static pattern is left on the screen for hours on end. This is one of the trade-offs that potential plasma owners must consider. In exchange for truer colors, even brightness, deeper blacks, and perfect off-angle viewing, a plasma owner must take better care of their plasma TV than they would of their LCD.


Plasma technology is relatively young, with respect to retail consumption at least. Plasma TVs have only been around for about 10 years and I expect to see them continue to improve greatly as research and development continues. In comparison, LCD panels have been around for about 30 years.


The quick answer to your question is, yes, there is always a chance of burn-in. However, on a 2008 (or later) model plasma, the chances of permanent burn-in are very unlikely so long as some care is taken. If a viewer wants a TV they can turn on and forget, then LCDs are still the way to go.


----------



## dobyblue




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Natural* /forum/post/15622783
> 
> 
> That's crazy that there is still a chance of burn in that far into the panels life. Is this something all plasma owners have to be aware of regardless of how much the panel has been "broken-in"?



It's something ALL TV owners should be aware of regardless of what type of display technology they are using.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draggcj* /forum/post/15621578
> 
> 
> The TV was on in the family room with a 4:3 program on. [we didn't know] how long it had been on (could have been all day for all I know!!). I shut it off.
> 
> 
> Approx. 3 hours later I turn it on to watch a hockey game with a full 16:9 image. I notice that the sides of the image (where the 4:3 side bars were) are a brighter white than the middle 4:3 image section



So you've conducted an experiment on uneven aging. If we assume that to date you've had uniform panel aging then you can simply run the inverse pattern at, say, 50% for 8 hours. If it is, or appears to be getting, better then problem solved. If not then it's likely something else is going on.


----------



## draggcj

Please excuse my ignorance but, what exactly does this mean:

_*"simply run the inverse pattern at, say, 50% for 8 hours".*_


----------



## bodosom

Fairly bright bars outside the 4:3 area, black in the 4:3 area. The inverse of the image you suspect may have notably unevenly aged your display.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draggcj* /forum/post/15621578
> 
> 
> The 4:3 side bars were set to medium gray. Now if it were burn in from the side bars, I would think that the sides of the image would be darker than the middle 4:3 section, not brighter.



Let's agree to use the term uneven aging. Yes, you're right. You've noticed that you *can't* age phosphors that aren't being used. A surprising number of people never come to that conclusion.



> Quote:
> If it were the 4:3 image burned in; I would think that I would see some sort of program image, with varying shades of gray and images or words burned in.



Well it does depend on the image. But yes, as you suspect, you didn't have a static image in the 4:3 area for hours and hours



> Quote:
> the manual says not to leave the TV on in 4:3 mode for an extended period as this could cause image retention. If this is even a possibilty why would panasonic even let you put the TV in that mode?



Panasonic currently recommends that if you do extensive 4:3 viewing that you put the set in 4:3 mode. This will overlay the often black pillarbox with gray pillarboxing that one hopes is equal to your content's average picture level (APL) resulting in uniform aging.


Smart displays figure out the moving average APL and change the gray value appropriately -- or so I'm told.


----------



## Smoke_019

hey all


i just purchased a panny 58pz800u...i want to do some kind of break-in but i don't want to d/l the dvd or the images...can i just leave it on all day for a couple days (along with mixing in some watching and blu-rays and video games) and have it be okay after that? also should i be lowering all of the settings to below 50 for these next few days as well? i read about that in another thread...thanks for the help!


----------



## maul528

I have my PC connected by a DVI to HDMI cable to get 1080p as the PC input only allows for 1360x768.


Does anyone else do this? I think it fills the whole scren except maybe a tiny portion at the top right of WinXP browser, beside the red X/close window button.

Can I use my PC connected this way without too much worry of IR?

Thanks for the help, just getting a bit paranoid.


----------



## ZBoomer

Re. this phosphor aging theory; on a panel that takes 60,000 or so hours usage to dim down to 50%, I have a hard time believing 4:3 in any shape or form for a day could cause unequal aging that was detectable. If one day's use could cause a part of the screen to dim a noticable amount, your screen would be dark after a year.


Let's say it was on for 10 hours with 4:3 bars, that is .016% of the time it takes to dim down to 50% as the phosphors age. .008% change regarding dying all the way to 0 brightness.


If you can see a .008% change in brightness, .00008 expressed without percentage, that sounds astounding to me.


I have to believe it's something else besides phosphor aging that causes this. One day is just such a tiny amount of a panel's phosphor life, it has to be some other phenomenon.


----------



## coneinc

i just bought a Hitachi 50" P50S602 plasma TV. day one after getting it out of the box and mounted. i adjusted to the way i wanted the picture to look. i played about 5-7 hours of ps3 the first night along with watching my fios cable TV. no image retention no burn in. i went by what Hitachi said. i have the screen saver active .what i want to say to all of you worried about burn in are image retention. just use the TV with common sense. for one if your watching a hd station with the side bars switch to the sd station with no side bars. if you need to pause your video game pause it turn the TV off are switch to cable are satellite input. CRT TVs had burn in issues also. but i bet most of you didn't have that problem because you used common sense with your TV. do the same with your plasma .and enjoy the TV with no worries. for years to come. no need to burn in the TV for the first 100 hours on the latest plasma. it didn't even mention that in the manual.why waste a 100 hours of life on the TV . hook it up enjoy your TVs movies video games. thats what the TV was made for. if you have doubts get the answers from the TV manufactures not from this board. i have had the TV over a month now no issues at all with image retention are burn in. another thing you guys using the acronym for image retention as Ir your wrong the Ir acronym is infa red

if your watching a lot of ESPN are the news Chanel's. just turn the TV off for a few minutes turn back own hit rewind in your dvr that will give you less chance to burn in the tickers


----------



## SemiPro

So my Dad's 42"Lg Plasma has the 4:3 shadow on the sides, plus you can see the guide from our Bell Reciever, and ontop of that theres a pixel thats flashing, does that mean it's a dead pixel ? So from what i've read i think im supposed to put on a HD channel like Discovery for a few days, and the 4:3 lines and bell menu might disapear ? I really hope so because i can see the menu right through some chanels, like hockey ect. EDIT-There's one flashing pixel and one thats dark.


----------



## SemiPro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiPro* /forum/post/15652495
> 
> 
> So my Dad's 42"Lg Plasma has the 4:3 shadow on the sides, plus you can see the guide from our Bell Reciever, and ontop of that theres a pixel thats flashing, does that mean it's a dead pixel ? So from what i've read i think im supposed to put on a HD channel like Discovery for a few days, and the 4:3 lines and bell menu might disapear ? i hope so because when im watching some channels i can see the menu right through it.



Someone please help me, i wanna fix my dads t.v before it's too late!!! Discovery HD or movies ? I don't have the Incredibles, but i have HULK and some other ones.


----------



## PODBEV

I just bought 50hd18

Because of IR issue, I'm watching HD movies and upscaled DVD movies in full screen

I'm tallying my viewing hours to monitor if I reached 100hr level (current tally: 16 hrs)

I set my picture setting following the 50px80u setting recommended by tweak tv


Question: after I reached 100hr level, can i already watch my HD movies and upscaled DVD movies in their normal mode (i.e. with the black horizontal bars at top and bottom of the screen) without worrying on IR issue?


----------



## GrnXnham




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ricohman* /forum/post/15604236
> 
> 
> I am the "anti break-in crusader".
> 
> After buying a couple of plasma's last year and doing nothing but use them. And both have seen heavy gaming. This "break-in" thing has gone to far. Our latest set was hooked to the PS3 for it's "break-in".
> 
> Seriously, this guy has been running images for 8 hours every night for 3 weeks? Bizarre.
> 
> My brother has the same set as this guy. He took it out of the box and used it. And he was gaming on it the same day he unboxed it.
> 
> My old dad just used his after we set it up. Do you think the majority of comsumers actually go through this bizarre ritual of 3 weeks of break-in images?
> 
> Nothing wrong with watching tv for a bit to settle it in, but anything else is just a waste of your time and electricity.
> 
> Rant done.



I have to agree with this. I have had my Panny 50" plasma for a month now and I've just used it normally--no break-in procedures. I watch a mixture of SD TV and HD TV plus a lot of wide screen movies with the black bars above and below. I don't play video games. My picture settings have been left on "standard" which is how it came from the factory. I haven't changed a thing. I haven't noticed any IR or burn-in at all.


If I had read this thread prior to buying my plasma, I would have been terrified of buying one and would have purchased an LCD out of fear. I just want to enjoy my new TV and that is what I've done. I'm still glad that I got my plasma.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiPro* /forum/post/15652653
> 
> 
> Someone please help me, i wanna fix my dads t.v before it's too late!!! Discovery HD or movies ? I don't have the Incredibles, but i have HULK and some other ones.



Are you asking us what movie you should watch to help reduce IR? Seriously? Doesn't matter what it is, just put something on in HD.


----------



## SemiPro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *williamr* /forum/post/15655510
> 
> 
> are you asking us what movie you should watch to help reduce ir? Seriously? Doesn't matter what it is, just put something on in hd.



lol :d


----------



## RYAXIN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiPro* /forum/post/15652653
> 
> 
> Someone please help me, i wanna fix my dads t.v before it's too late!!! Discovery HD or movies ? I don't have the Incredibles, but i have HULK and some other ones.



Use the scrolling feature. Leave it run for a few hours, it should eliminate whatever IR is there.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/15655510
> 
> 
> Are you asking us what movie you should watch to help reduce IR? Seriously? Doesn't matter what it is, just put something on in HD.



HD or SD is irrelevant


----------



## Smoke_019

so i can understand just enjoying my tv without having to do any break-in procedures...however, would it still be recommended that i have the settings below 50 (colour, contrast, brightness, etc.) for a week or so before i turn them back up? i have a panasonic th-58pz800u....thanks...


----------



## Nicktx27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smoke_019* /forum/post/15667911
> 
> 
> so i can understand just enjoying my tv without having to do any break-in procedures...however, would it still be recommended that i have the settings below 50 (colour, contrast, brightness, etc.) for a week or so before i turn them back up? i have a panasonic th-58pz800u....thanks...



I think many misconstrue what breaking in you set is. Your first 150-200 hours are considered your break in period. Whether you do that with responsible TV viewing or a SD card or a disk is irrelevant. Most agree that if you are sensible with TV watching you should be fine.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smoke_019* /forum/post/15667911
> 
> 
> so i can understand just enjoying my tv without having to do any break-in procedures...however, would it still be recommended that i have the settings below 50 (colour, contrast, brightness, etc.) for a week or so before i turn them back up? i have a panasonic th-58pz800u....thanks...



Millions of people take them out of the box and use them as delivered.

Without any problems.

Adjust whatever you want if it makes you feel better but it won't have any detrimental effect on the set in the long run.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nicktx27* /forum/post/15667938
> 
> 
> I think many misconstrue what breaking in you set is. Your first 150-200 hours are considered your break in period. Whether you do that with responsible TV viewing or a SD card or a disk is irrelevant. Most agree that if you are sensible with TV watching you should be fine.



To break in a plasma you need this.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15666003
> 
> 
> HD or SD is irrelevant



I always recommend HD over SD because the quality of the signal and you don't have to stretch anything. There is always a chance something happens and the TV doesn't stretch it right or switches back, etc. So with HD it is just more fool proof.


----------



## Aahhyes68

I just recieved my 5020FD and started the break-in with a thumbdrive. I called the gentleman that will be doing my calibration and he suggested that the actual turning on and off of the set helped the components greatly. Just normal use on/off allowing the electronics to heat up and cool off normally.


It makes sense to me but what do you guy's think ?


(I was just going to run the pics for 6hr on, 2hrs off repeatedly for a week.)


----------



## bonscott87

I was going to run these break-in images but decided against it. Just got the set last Saturday and by the end of the Superbowl this Sunday I'll have nearly 50 hours on it with "normal" viewing as it is. I'll hit 100 hours within 3 weeks easy. So I don't see the need for the breakin at this point. When I get home from work I turn the set on and put it on Discovery HD Theater or HDNet so that I know everything is in HD all the time and let it run. Get about 5-6 hours per day this way.


----------



## fatbottom

This is starting to get ridiculous, what next perform a pagan ceremony during the full moon?



> Quote:
> I always recommend HD over SD because the quality of the signal



Doesn't make any difference you can playback youtube quality videos, all the pixels will be refreshed exactly the same, if going through red, green blue screens.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15673826
> 
> 
> This is starting to get ridiculous, what next perform a pagan ceremony during the full moon? Doesn't make any difference you can playback youtube quality videos, all the pixels will be refreshed exactly the same, if going through red, green blue screens.



I think the OP was pretty clear that they felt that an HD input was less likely to trigger something like 4:3. I suspect that the likelihood of a display glitch is somewhat greater than the chance that cycling through r/g/b is better than just using gray.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15673826
> 
> 
> This is starting to get ridiculous, what next perform a pagan ceremony during the full moon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make any difference you can playback youtube quality videos, all the pixels will be refreshed exactly the same, if going through red, green blue screens.



I've had an older Pioner switch back to 4:3 unstretched/unzoomed while watching a show when the show changed to something new. That is why it is safer to watch a true HD show so you do not accidently get bars on the side. Is that so hard to understand? Perhaps you need to calm down and think of something more then just pixels. It is a percaution measure against the TV doing something you do not expect.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> I've had an older Pioner switch back to 4:3 unstretched/unzoomed



That's your own fault for setting auto aspect on the Pioneer. If you set to zoom or wide, 4:3 won't have borders for any material. Anyway you should never leave a plasma unattended for hours on end, it's your own fault if it reverts to bordered material.


----------



## achavez2k6

" this is starting to get ridiculous, what next perform a pagan ceremony during the full moon? "



lmao!!!


----------



## Skidpad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nicktx27* /forum/post/15667938
> 
> 
> I think many misconstrue what breaking in you set is. Your first 150-200 hours are considered your break in period. Whether you do that with responsible TV viewing or a SD card or a disk is irrelevant. Most agree that if you are sensible with TV watching you should be fine.



This post should end the thread. Nothing more needs to said, nor can much else be gained by endlessly debating this topic.


Ok, it _is_ entertaining


----------



## ricohman

Why would anyone leave their set on for hours on end with nobody watching?

What a waste of electricity.

I can't stand it when my kids leave the tv on for a few minutes.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15678205
> 
> 
> That's your own fault for setting auto aspect on the Pioneer. If you set to zoom or wide, 4:3 won't have borders for any material. Anyway you should never leave a plasma unattended for hours on end, it's your own fault if it reverts to bordered material.



Wow you have no clue what you are talking about. It was a defect in the TV that had to be repaired with a system board. It never kept the setting. Thus why it is safer to watch HD content, just another added layer of protection.


----------



## goonstopher

Anyone else clueless on getting the Burn-in DVD to work?


I tried burning it and my player says disk incompatible so I tried opening it on my computer to see if maybe I had to link it to the Tv and my computer can't find a file to open it with...


Can you break it in through normal usage?


----------



## Nicktx27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *goonstopher* /forum/post/15684482
> 
> 
> Anyone else clueless on getting the Burn-in DVD to work?
> 
> 
> I tried burning it and my player says disk incompatible so I tried opening it on my computer to see if maybe I had to link it to the Tv and my computer can't find a file to open it with...
> 
> 
> Can you break it in through normal usage?



Uh.. Yeah. It's been stated several times throughout this thread. You can also try a USB thumbdrive.


----------



## cruehead20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14284090
> 
> 
> I figure I would update everyone... I now have about 30-40 more hours on the set since finding my history channel burn-in. Unfortunately, it is still there. I have not turned to the channel since... When I use the white-wash function I can see the history.com and even the logo sightly.
> 
> 
> Not the end of the world, as It would be difficult to see under normal viewing circumstances... Just a bit upset though, because the set has been taken care of, I have been careful with it. I limited the time it was on the channel in the first place, but I guess that isn't enough.
> 
> 
> My only hope at this point is the run the 'inverted' option and watch the channel for a long time. But that might make it worse. Does anyone have experience with that? I assume invert was created for that reason, but whether or not it will fix the uneven phosper wear (burn-in) is just a guess on my part. I'd hate to make it worse.
> 
> 
> So here you go... My new LG 50PG20 has burn-in. On a side note, I looked at my friends plasma (Panny 42" 07' and and Sammy 50" 06') and both of them have signs of burn-in. My Dad's Dell W4200 05' (sammy for the most part) was used as a computer monitor for about 2 years and has only a very slight burn-in where the task bar was. All in all, the Dell faired the best in regards to burn-in, IMO.
> 
> 
> I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in, or have never watched anything static on their screen. Or, I just happen to have seen it on the 4 Plasmas that I mentioned... A little bit bummed, honestly.



I have the History.com burn in also. I am so pissed. I have called A&E twice today and left messages, and I won't stop till they call me back. I am going to take the TV back and get an LCD. Its a Vizio 505xvt. If I stay with plasma I'll be freaking out all the time about what channel is on. We ought to sue that stupid channel.


----------



## goonstopher

Ha... got a great deal on a pio pro 111fd without doing any research on plasmas as I was always an LCD guy so I am green to this and nervous.


----------



## Singh007

A few questions:


1) Can I go back and forth between burn-in images and regular tv viewing, or should i leave just the images on for 100 hours?


2) If i do use the images (solid colors)...do i still need to lower the picture/brightness?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/15683191
> 
> 
> Wow you have no clue what you are talking about. It was a defect in the TV that had to be repaired with a system board. It never kept the setting. Thus why it is safer to watch HD content, just another added layer of protection.



wow you having a faulty set is why my problem exactly?







I've been watching 4:3 material in wide mode so no borders. Never changed ratio. Also for 16:9 animation in dot by dot again never changed half way.


HD content can be in 4:3 as well, so if you have auto mode on the TV it'll still revert. Reason why to DISABLE auto aspect on the TV and manually choose a zoom mode. Hope a light has switched in your brain.



> Quote:
> I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in



I think most don't see problems even if the TV is totally screwed up, I've seen CRT TV's and CRT RP's and people say the picture is incredible, but they've out of focus, confergence, uneven phosphor, bad geometry, overblown picture settings. Reason why I don't hold other people's opinions when it comes to screen burn or picture quality or something along those lines...you just don't know if the person is clueless or with the same eye as myself. Someone here said he's watched 4:3 with borders for hundreds of hours not one bit of uneven wear, I say otherwise as on mine I spotted it on black screen/blacked out room luckily way before it got to the point you notice it on a bright test screens (usually damaged by that time)


LG's and Samsungs are prone to screen, moreso than Pioneer and Panasonic.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15689204
> 
> 
> Someone here said he's watched 4:3 with borders for hundreds of hours not one bit of uneven wear, I say otherwise



If the border is at APL why should there be uneven aging?


----------



## goonstopher

with the 111fd how bad is watching standard def programs with the verticle black bars???


I CANT STAND the automatic stretching feature in the TV that detects the ratio...


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15689204
> 
> 
> wow you having a faulty set is why my problem exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching 4:3 material in wide mode so no borders. Never changed ratio. Also for 16:9 animation in dot by dot again never changed half way.
> 
> 
> HD content can be in 4:3 as well, so if you have auto mode on the TV it'll still revert. Reason why to DISABLE auto aspect on the TV and manually choose a zoom mode. Hope a light has switched in your brain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think most don't see problems even if the TV is totally screwed up, I've seen CRT TV's and CRT RP's and people say the picture is incredible, but they've out of focus, confergence, uneven phosphor, bad geometry, overblown picture settings. Reason why I don't hold other people's opinions when it comes to screen burn or picture quality or something along those lines...you just don't know if the person is clueless or with the same eye as myself. Someone here said he's watched 4:3 with borders for hundreds of hours not one bit of uneven wear, I say otherwise as on mine I spotted it on black screen/blacked out room luckily way before it got to the point you notice it on a bright test screens (usually damaged by that time)
> 
> 
> LG's and Samsungs are prone to screen, moreso than Pioneer and Panasonic.



Wow you really do not know what you are talking about. It is sad you can not even read a post correctly.


----------



## fatbottom

lol whatever you can't even eloborate further. I've been watching Sky SD never had borders, when TV is set to wide. To get borders I need to manually change to 4:3 (shock horror!) as Sky box does not change aspect, unlike the Oppo DVD in 16:9/auto. Guess you just don't know what you're doing.


----------



## Singh007

I know that during break-in period the contrast, brightness etc. is to be turned down when watching tv. But, I am using the 120 static images on SD card on my Panasonic Plasma (downloaded from: http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/ ). The question is: Do i still keep the settings turned down during the Static Image Slideshow, or turn them up to 'cover a wider range of colors"?


one more quick ques: when the images from the SD card change, the screen sort of 'flickers' for half a second. Is it ok for this to happen every ten seconds for 100 hours? Thank you!!


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15693054
> 
> 
> lol whatever you can't even eloborate further. I've been watching Sky SD never had borders, when TV is set to wide. To get borders I need to manually change to 4:3 (shock horror!) as Sky box does not change aspect, unlike the Oppo DVD in 16:9/auto. Guess you just don't know what you're doing.



Did you not even read the posts? I said the TV had a defect that had to be repaired. It defaulted back to black borders on each side on SD content. Can you understand that better. IT DEFAULTED BACK TO 4:3 ON SD CONTENT EVEN IF YOU SET IT TO WIDE. No matter what you set in the menu, it would not keep it and would go back to the standard setting immediately after being set. Thus I watched HD content since I did not have to worry about the sides then, until the set was fixed with a simple system board swap out. This is why I said HD content just adds another layer of protection. Sure, if they do not have anything wrong with their set they can do it, it was just another precaution. Besides, who wants to watch SD content on these beautiful sets. They are made for HD and in fact some sets dispaly SD rather poorly. Why suffer through that if you do not have to.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Singh007* /forum/post/15693745
> 
> 
> I know that during break-in period the contrast, brightness etc. is to be turned down when watching tv. But, I am using the 120 static images on SD card on my Panasonic Plasma (downloaded from: http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/ ). The question is: Do i still keep the settings turned down during the Static Image Slideshow, or turn them up to 'cover a wider range of colors"?
> 
> 
> one more quick ques: when the images from the SD card change, the screen sort of 'flickers' for half a second. Is it ok for this to happen every ten seconds for 100 hours? Thank you!!



You do not have to keep the settings down during break in. In fact, if you are using the break in DVD it is recommended to have higher settings to help the process. Just do not use the higher settings when watching something with static images. If you are watching regular, HD channels without static images (I do not mean logos, I mean like a sports show with the score) then set the TV to what you like and enjoy your new set!


----------



## cruehead20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArchAngelGabriel* /forum/post/14284090
> 
> 
> I figure I would update everyone... I now have about 30-40 more hours on the set since finding my history channel burn-in. Unfortunately, it is still there. I have not turned to the channel since... When I use the white-wash function I can see the history.com and even the logo sightly.
> 
> 
> Not the end of the world, as It would be difficult to see under normal viewing circumstances... Just a bit upset though, because the set has been taken care of, I have been careful with it. I limited the time it was on the channel in the first place, but I guess that isn't enough.
> 
> 
> My only hope at this point is the run the 'inverted' option and watch the channel for a long time. But that might make it worse. Does anyone have experience with that? I assume invert was created for that reason, but whether or not it will fix the uneven phosper wear (burn-in) is just a guess on my part. I'd hate to make it worse.
> 
> 
> So here you go... My new LG 50PG20 has burn-in. On a side note, I looked at my friends plasma (Panny 42" 07' and and Sammy 50" 06') and both of them have signs of burn-in. My Dad's Dell W4200 05' (sammy for the most part) was used as a computer monitor for about 2 years and has only a very slight burn-in where the task bar was. All in all, the Dell faired the best in regards to burn-in, IMO.
> 
> 
> I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in, or have never watched anything static on their screen. Or, I just happen to have seen it on the 4 Plasmas that I mentioned... A little bit bummed, honestly.



The History Channel called me back today. He said he hadn't heard of this problem, but will pass it on to the right people, and keep intouch with me. Hopefully they will change that logo.


----------



## David Susilo

It's the case of "you get what you pay for". I mentioned it a long time ago on this thread that LG is the the brand that is most prone to IR (thus more prone to burn in) during my comparison between various known brands.


----------



## Singh007

Anyone have any idea about the screen 'flicker' when the image from my SD card changes from one picture to the next? The screen sort of flashes a few lines for like half a second when changing pictures. Could this cause a problem since everything on the screen is even for 100 hours but every 10 seconds some lines flash on the screen for half a second? Will these lines maybe make that area of the screen wear out more?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Singh007* /forum/post/15699274
> 
> 
> Anyone have any idea about the screen 'flicker' when the image from my SD card changes from one picture to the next? The screen sort of flashes a few lines for like half a second when changing pictures. Could this cause a problem since everything on the screen is even for 100 hours but every 10 seconds some lines flash on the screen for half a second? Will these lines maybe make that area of the screen wear out more?



Yes.


----------



## Singh007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15699384
> 
> 
> Yes.



bodosom...thanks for the response. Care to expand on it ?(there is a lot of sarcasm on this site...just don't know if this is the case here)


----------



## nunzp

Would anyone advise to watch regular dvd's in zoom mode,seems that some dvd's have the black bar on top and bottom and the only stting that clears the bars is the zoom mode...please advise

thanks


----------



## escazu

I just purchased a kuro elite 151fd. The local dealer was not able to provide any information re: a break-in dvd. How or where can I obtain one? Thanks in advance for any helpful information


----------



## simplemath

mage retention on an lcd. I think it is posible. Stare at the torch of an lcd for 5 mins straight, and the image will be burned into your eyeball for about the same amount of time as the image may be burned into the plasma tv set. Both go away after about 30 seconds.


----------



## Nicktx27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *escazu* /forum/post/15702067
> 
> 
> I just purchased a kuro elite 151fd. The local dealer was not able to provide any information re: a break-in dvd. How or where can I obtain one? Thanks in advance for any helpful information



Try reading the first post.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nunzp* /forum/post/15701023
> 
> 
> Would anyone advise to watch regular dvd's in zoom mode,seems that some dvd's have the black bar on top and bottom and the only stting that clears the bars is the zoom mode...please advise
> 
> thanks



It's up to you. I personally never zoom movies on DVD or Blu-ray, black bars are not a significant problem. I prefer to watch everything in the OAR.


----------



## Cloggerdude

This has probably been answered previously, but I read back a few pages and didn't see anything, so I have a question regarding burn-in on a Toshiba LCD.


The tv was a display tv at the Circuit City I work for and was then used as our break room television. It's a 42" LCD; not sure on the exact model number. It apparently displayed 4:3 content the entire time it was on display, because now there are fairly noticeable borders.


My question is, do you think it would be possible to undo this damage? I know this is not burn in, instead retention, but I have read some places that it cannot be fixed if it is bad enough. Since we began watching television on it, the lines have gotten softer, but they are still there. By running a white screen for 24 hours, or possibly even the burn-in DVD in the op, would it be possible to fix it?


I wouldn't normally even bother, but the tv is going to be sold for a ridiculously low price. I know it's been used quite a bit, but for this price I'd be willing to grab it if the screen retention could be mostly fixed.


Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/15695486
> 
> 
> Did you not even read the posts? I said the TV had a defect that had to be repaired. It defaulted back to black borders on each side on SD content. Can you understand that better. IT DEFAULTED BACK TO 4:3 ON SD CONTENT EVEN IF YOU SET IT TO WIDE. No matter what you set in the menu, it would not keep it and would go back to the standard setting immediately after being set. Thus I watched HD content since I did not have to worry about the sides then, until the set was fixed with a simple system board swap out. This is why I said HD content just adds another layer of protection. Sure, if they do not have anything wrong with their set they can do it, it was just another precaution. Besides, who wants to watch SD content on these beautiful sets. They are made for HD and in fact some sets dispaly SD rather poorly. Why suffer through that if you do not have to.



Did you? Read #1347. Why are you bothering about saying why HD source offers better protection, when yours is faulty (which you did not say at all until I asked) when a normal set wouldn't do this?










If you put a 4:3 DVD on, set DVD output to 16:9 (will stretch to full screen) and then set zoom mode there will be no borders. Or you could put on a widescreen DVD. It does not have to be HD.










SD looks great as well but has to be a channel or source with low compression


----------



## mjoshi

Okay guys I've Samsung PN50A510 on way, should be available for pickup on next Tuesday. I want to know what I need to do specific to this model for break-in. I've downloaded DVD from first page and burned a DVD-R using it. Once I get TV should I just connect a DVD player with it and keep it running for 100 hours ? Or do I need to do anything else too ? Do I need to make changes to any of settings ?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Once I get TV should I just connect a DVD player with it and keep it running for 100 hours ?




No need just watch it normally but make sure no logos or black borders.


----------



## mjoshi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15708975
> 
> 
> No need just watch it normally but make sure no logos or black borders.



So what is use of this burn-in DVD ? Do I need to play it at all on my Plasma or not ?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjoshi* /forum/post/15709121
> 
> 
> So what is use of this burn-in DVD ?



If it has solid primary color fields it can help find bad pixels.


----------



## PioneerPlasmas

Hi everyone,


I just recently purchased a Pioneer PDP5020FD and installed it yesterday. I downloaded the USB thumbdrive images and have set the images to slideshow at 30 second intervals while I'm not watching the t.v.


My question is about the shades of the primary colors. All the shades appear the same for each primary color, is this a problem? My thought was that the sport settings and cranked up contrast was making the images appear similar; however, I changed them to D-Nice's recommended settings and the images still appear the same.


All 20 images are in the folder and I followed the procedure that was given.


Thanks for your help,

Matt


----------



## mjoshi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15709179
> 
> 
> If it has solid primary color fields it can help find bad pixels.



This makes things more confusing, so what exactly needs to be done for burn-in / IR for plasma break-in ?


----------



## fatbottom

Smear yourself in butter and dance around a fire whooping.

Or you could just use it, no borders, no logo sources such as animation movies, or 24 TV series on DVD.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15707513
> 
> 
> Did you? Read #1347. Why are you bothering about saying why HD source offers better protection, when yours is faulty (which you did not say at all until I asked) when a normal set wouldn't do this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you put a 4:3 DVD on, set DVD output to 16:9 (will stretch to full screen) and then set zoom mode there will be no borders. Or you could put on a widescreen DVD. It does not have to be HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SD looks great as well but has to be a channel or source with low compression




A lot of sets do not automatically keep the zoom setting. So when a new show comes on, it will switch back to non-zoom, unlike the wide option. Another reason not to use SD content. Not all sets are the same. This is the reason why it is better to use HD content. You don't have to worry about setting auto wide, or setting zoom all the time. You don't have to worry about doing it or even do it. Much better option for that alone.


You must not have HD or something. No one wants to watch SD content nor should they for any reason. The quality on large, newer sets is horrible compared to HD content and for all the reasons I listed. You must be a SD die hard.


Oh and the reason I mentioned it, even though mine was faulty, was for that reason. You do not have to worry about any of what you are doing on HD, or what happened to mine. Watch HD and no need to worry, or set anything manually. Much better option.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> You must not have HD or something. No one wants to watch SD content nor should they for any reason. The quality on large, newer sets is horrible compared to HD content and for all the reasons I listed. You must be a SD die hard.



I've watched 1080p movies but SD can look stunning with quality movies, player and display. Some Sky channels are quite good some others not so good. Good SD can fool people thinking it's actually HD.


I've never had a TV which auto switches- have owned 10 tv's Learn to use the TV, disable auto aspect, SCART aspect control.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15715135
> 
> 
> Good SD can fool people thinking it's actually HD.



Well that explains a lot.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15717263
> 
> 
> Well that explains a lot.



yes sd can be great. One poster on another forum with a 6090 played a new movie on DVD with oppo 983, his mates said "is this HD?" Schlinders List on DVD is a good DVD.


When you can see the pores and hairs on people with SD, that shows how good it can be. But bad SD can be pretty terrible.


If people presume all SD is rubbish that shows just how much you know







oh pal land has extra 100 lines over ntsc.


----------



## Merc_2k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/15714971
> 
> 
> No one wants to watch SD content nor should they for any reason.



I hear this sort of thing a lot on these forums. When you get an HDTV set you have to stop liking all your favourite shows just because they aren't HD? That seems a bit silly to me.


----------



## goonstopher

Gotta agree... I watch a lot of comedy central and have a feeling they wont do HD anytime soon. Comcast only has like 15 HD channels so its hard to watch just HD


----------



## Joey!

I have been becoming increasingly concerned with some image retention that I have been suffering with on 42PZ85. I had been watching a lot of the Australian open tennis, on Eurosport. I watched about 5 hours a day, for about 9 days. I mixed this with viewing of other channels, and films, but I have noticed some image retention of the Eurosport logo's text. Its now 5 days since I have viewed the eurosport channel, and I still see the faint text shape. I only notice this on a black screen, from a close distance. I made sure to run the breakin DVD for the first 100 hours, and totalled about 60-70 hours. I only watched this Eurosport stuff after 120 hours use, so I have been careful. I also tried running the breakin DVD for about 10 hours after noticing this image retention, but no luck in removing it. You don't notice it on other coloured screens such as the breakin DVD, only on black screen. Is it likely that I have had burnin of the logo from watching the channel for 5 hours a day for 9 days? Or do you think I have some very resistant image retention that will take weeks to dissapear? I have been running at 40% contrast/brightness on all modes of viewing, and I had the Skybox set to moderate contrast/brightness whilst viewing.


Anyone that views Euro knows what a huge pain the DOG is, and the dark coloured text it has.


Thank you all.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *goonstopher* /forum/post/15718762
> 
> 
> Gotta agree... I watch a lot of comedy central and have a feeling they wont do HD anytime soon. Comcast only has like 15 HD channels so its hard to watch just HD




Completely off-topic but CC recently went HD. Sadly the Daily Show will be SD until next year.


----------



## goonstopher

WHAT!!! Comcast SUCKS!!!


Mad comcast has my area by the balls we can only get them or dish and if you get dish they crank up your internet price.


----------



## mjoshi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *goonstopher* /forum/post/15718952
> 
> 
> WHAT!!! Comcast SUCKS!!!
> 
> 
> Mad comcast has my area by the balls we can only get them or dish and if you get dish they crank up your internet price.




Well related to Comcast hope they shower this same love on everyone









Economy is so bad that they are now paying people to see this








http://i.gizmodo.com/5144563/comcast...ith-5-discount


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Merc_2k* /forum/post/15718744
> 
> 
> I hear this sort of thing a lot on these forums. When you get an HDTV set you have to stop liking all your favourite shows just because they aren't HD? That seems a bit silly to me.



Luckily almost all of my favorite shows have an HD channel they are on. It is a shame that there are not more HD channels, especially with these awesome sets. Stretched material looks so bad. Some TV's do a better job but on some, the stretch algorithm is freaking horrible.


----------



## Marc T

Hey..just copied the burn-in images to my thumb drive, for some reason my 6020FD does not want to see them in the same order I see on my PC. Does it matter if you run the slideshow with the color plates out of sequence?


Thanks,


Marc


----------



## Joey!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joey!* /forum/post/15718783
> 
> 
> I have been becoming increasingly concerned with some image retention that I have been suffering with on 42PZ85. I had been watching a lot of the Australian open tennis, on Eurosport. I watched about 5 hours a day, for about 9 days. I mixed this with viewing of other channels, and films, but I have noticed some image retention of the Eurosport logo's text. Its now 5 days since I have viewed the eurosport channel, and I still see the faint text shape. I only notice this on a black screen, from a close distance. I made sure to run the breakin DVD for the first 100 hours, and totalled about 60-70 hours. I only watched this Eurosport stuff after 120 hours use, so I have been careful. I also tried running the breakin DVD for about 10 hours after noticing this image retention, but no luck in removing it. You don't notice it on other coloured screens such as the breakin DVD, only on black screen. Is it likely that I have had burnin of the logo from watching the channel for 5 hours a day for 9 days? Or do you think I have some very resistant image retention that will take weeks to dissapear? I have been running at 40% contrast/brightness on all modes of viewing, and I had the Skybox set to moderate contrast/brightness whilst viewing.
> 
> 
> Anyone that views Euro knows what a huge pain the DOG is, and the dark coloured text it has.
> 
> 
> Thank you all.





Since this post of myn, I have noticed no change in the IR, possible burnin, and its now 7 days since I have viewed that channel. Is there a chance its burnin? Or anything I could do?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Marc T* /forum/post/15730182
> 
> 
> Hey..just copied the burn-in images to my thumb drive, for some reason my 6020FD does not want to see them in the same order I see on my PC. Does it matter if you run the slideshow with the color plates out of sequence?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Marc



Nope.


----------



## UTSoxFan

I raised the following question in another thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hp?t=1116157): I have a Kuro 5020 being delivered on Friday and I've been reading up on the break-in process in various threads on AVS. After leaning that the break-in dvd merely consists of colored screens, I had the same thought -- if a white screen displays all colors at once, why wouldn't a white screen accomplish this task in 1/3 of the time? If the answer is that the different color phosphors age at different rates, then I don't see how the break-in dvd solves this problem -- doesn't it contain the same number of red/green/blue screens? If so, then the break-in dvd is displaying each color an equal amount of time, same as showing a white screen. So why not use white screen for break-in? Anyone???


Another poster responded as follows:

_Why don't you ask the engineers inside the manufacturers!!.. make sure you quote the name of the person too (asking permission)..


I went to the source many months ago at Pioneer and asked.. Josh Kairoff, Director of Display Engineering Group for Pioneer NA..


from: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=319_


. . .


Since this is the master break-in thread, I thought this was an appropriate place to continue the discussion.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UTSoxFan* /forum/post/15735361
> 
> 
> Since this is the master break-in thread, I thought this was an appropriate place to continue the discussion.



Since you're getting a 5020 and Turbe quoted someone at Pioneer who was paraphrased as saying


> Quote:
> [ I ] recommend a fast track procedure [using] an all white video signal from a inexpensive video generator for 100 hours.



why do you think the discussion should be continued?


----------



## UTSoxFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15737166
> 
> 
> why do you think the discussion should be continued?



This is the "Master Burn-in/IR/Break-in" thread, right?? Why wouldn't a ligitimate question regarding the break-in process that thousands on this forum seem to be using be discussed here? As opposed to, say, discussing whether you get the Daily Show in HD?


But seriously, I had many reasons for wanting to continue the discussion here, not the least of which is that I figured it was only a matter of time before the other thread was _locked_, as it is now. Maybe I'm just the curious sort, but I find it interesting that countless posters (at least those who are determined to undergo a dedicated break-in process) simply fall into line with Evangelo2's Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive procedure and virtually no one questions the logic behind displaying a series of red/green/blue slides rather than a white screen.


I don't know whether the white screen approach is better, worse, or no different than Evangelo2's procedure. But I'm hoping that others on this forum with more experience and expertise will weigh in on the subject and provide some answers.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UTSoxFan* /forum/post/15741984
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm just the curious sort, but I find it interesting that countless posters (at least those who are determined to undergo a dedicated break-in process) simply fall into line



I was unduly terse. I wonder the same thing but it's clear that a multi-year disagreement is never going to be resolved since many of the parties are untroubled by logical inconsistencies. I suspect that most of the more experienced members choose to ignore this topic since they've said whatever they had to say long ago.


----------



## nutsandbolts




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UTSoxFan* /forum/post/15741984
> 
> 
> ... Maybe I'm just the curious sort, but I find it interesting that countless posters (at least those who are determined to undergo a dedicated break-in process) simply fall into line with Evangelo2's Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive procedure and virtually no one questions the logic behind displaying a series of red/green/blue slides rather than a white screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd not say no one questions







there are those of us who do not perform the break in. I am not doing any break in other than watching it normally on my 111fd. I see no logic in wasting 150 hours of my plasma's life and electricity for nothing. I say nothing because nobody here can prove that it makes a difference.


But I am still on this thread because I want to learn more. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here and I am learning about my new TV. So far I have not read anything that would make me believe that the burn in process makes a difference worth the wastage of electricity etc.


----------



## General Kenobi

I have a minor IR experience to report, last night I was getting pretty tired but wasn't quite ready to head up to bead so I put Waiting on. I woke up and it was on the menu screen. Based on when I started it I figure it was probably stuck like that for about 2 1/2 hours or so.


I jumped up and turned it off and could easily see IR of the menu buttons and a few other things, My stomach was twisted now because I just got this damn TV and probably have about 150-200 hours on it. I ran the white scroll bar for 15min and it made a very small difference. I ran the slideshow of my break-in images and when to bed.


This morning I came downstairs at about 6:30 turned off the slideshow, left the lights in the house off and I could still see some very faint IR, again of the menu buttons. I ran the scrolling bar again, put on sunrise earth for a bit and then went back to the break-in images. I left the house at 8am and before turned on Veggie Tales for my little girl I went to a blank input. I could not see a thing! There were a couple lights on so my guess is that there may have still been a very very small trace of it left but it is obviously going away and I expect by the time I get home it will be totally absent.


The point of my story is that I am new to Plasma and based on my experience with my 58PZ850 IR is an issues but time seems to be healing all wounds. I expect that as I get more hors on the set it will become more resilient against IR but in the mean time my simple advice is add a couple habits to the ones you already have and your TV will remain perfect. Use the repeat function on your BD player and use your sleep timer on your TV. IR is there but it is fixable and avoidable.


----------



## uman1967

Please help!! I have a new Samsung PN A650 coming soon. I already have the breakin DVD. I know this has probably been asked a thousand times but I am new to this forum and to plasma TV's. What brightness setttings would be best used running this with a standard DVD player? Any other info on this model would be greatly appreciated


----------



## zake202

So after reading numerous posts throughout these forums I think I finally figured out how to break it in correctly.


I have the panny PZ4280U.


Settings atm:

Picture Mode Cinema

Picture 50

Brightness 50

Color 45

Tint 0

Sharpness 50

Color Temp Warm

Color MGMT Off

X.V. Color Grayed out

Zoom Adjust Grayed out


Advanced

Video NR Off

3D Y/C filter Off

Color Matrix SD

Mpeg NR Off

Black Level Light

HD Size 1


I have Evangelo's SD card images running.

30 second intervals

repeat on


Is there suppose to be a flicker between slides?


This all look correct? I plan to run it for 4 days straight and increase the brightness and picture by 2 every 24 hours, just to be safe.


I did have a follow up question.


How often should I stay on a station or in a game after I start using it normally?


----------



## zake202

Anyone just let me know if "yes they are ok" or "no change this"?


----------



## David Susilo

1. yes they're okay

2. I don't know the answer regarding flicker on the side. I don't think it's normal.

3. If you're in Cinema mode, I've played game for several hours and/or watch a single station for several hours with no problem.


disclaimer: I've tested item 1 and 3 on a Panasonic 800u, Pioneer PRO-1150 and PRO-111. As mentioned, I have no clue about item 2.


----------



## zake202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15766719
> 
> 
> 1. yes they're okay
> 
> 2. I don't know the answer regarding flicker on the side. I don't think it's normal.
> 
> 3. If you're in Cinema mode, I've played game for several hours and/or watch a single station for several hours with no problem.
> 
> 
> disclaimer: I've tested item 1 and 3 on a Panasonic 800u, Pioneer PRO-1150 and PRO-111. As mentioned, I have no clue about item 2.



I meant between the slides not the sides. And I think it is just the way it transitions, it looks like a flicker but isn't.


As far as my settings, they seem ok. I was assuming they are ok just got paranoid since it will be on for 100+hours.


And cinema mode seems best I think.


----------



## Dangfish

Just joined


I just wrote this long message and tried to post it. It didn't post, even though the site claimed that it did. So I'm just sending this to see if it works before I try again


----------



## Dangfish

Okay, I guess I'm good to go now.


Let's see if I can remember everything I wrote the first time. I'm a first time flat screen owner. I bought a 50 inch series 4 400 Samsung plasma (PN42A400)one week ago. I was going to get an LCD but circumstances and a super deal intervened. I know nothing about any of this. Everything I know about plasmas I have read on this forum in the last week. I changed all my settings for the break-in period as advised here (lowered brightness and contrast and all that) and have been adjusting my picture size to zoom1 whenever I watch something with the black bars on the top and the bottom. I don't have HDTV and am not obsessive about having the absolute best picture.


Anyway, my computer genius friend came over yesterday. He took one look at my new TV and said he could give me better picture and sound. We went to the store and got an HDMi cable (might have the name wrong). He then hooked it up and now I do indeed have much better sound and picture. I simply watch it from a different source. However, my picture sizes changed too. Now my biggest screen size is only full fit (or something fit). About 40% of the shows I watch have the black bars on the top and the bottom unless I go to zoom to get rid of them. Now, I don't have that. I called my friend this morning and he had me re-hook the other cable so now I can switch back and forth from the new way to the way it was, but here are my two questions:


Is there anything else I can do to fill the whole screen with the HDmi cable hook-up, rather than switching back and forth all the time?


Do I really need to worry about the black bars all that much? Am I okay just watching everything in the Hdmi setting? I've read quite a bit that says you should avoid those top and bottom black bars, particularly during the first 100 hours, but do I really need to be this paranoid? Obviously I wish to avoid retention and burn-out.


Any advice would be appreciated. As I stated, though, I barely know anything about all this, so I hope nobody gets super technical.


----------



## David Susilo

1. some TVs wide modes can't be accessed once you use HDMI connection.

2. I don't know much about Samsung plasma (only tested it for review for several weeks) but if you use cinema/movie mode, you shouldn't be worried about blackbars at all. I watch 2.35:1 and 4:3 in their native aspect (black bars at the top/bottom or on the sides) and I've never experienced IR let alone burn-in. With Samsung you may experience IR but most probably no burn-in at all.


hope it helps.


if you have any further question, just PM me.


----------



## Skidpad

*Dangfish*: Welcome aboard!







To eliminate the "aw $hit!" factor when posting, type your post in some sort of text editor (Microsoft's Notepad or something similar) FIRST, and then when you are ready to post, copy & paste it into the forum message reply window. That way, if it doesn't actually upload and post for some reason, you don't need to type your message again...you can simply paste it again...


/hijack


----------



## Dangfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/15772507
> 
> 
> 1. some TVs wide modes can't be accessed once you use HDMI connection.
> 
> 2. I don't know much about Samsung plasma (only tested it for review for several weeks) but if you use cinema/movie mode, you shouldn't be worried about blackbars at all. I watch 2.35:1 and 4:3 in their native aspect (black bars at the top/bottom or on the sides) and I've never experienced IR let alone burn-in. With Samsung you may experience IR but most probably no burn-in at all.
> 
> 
> hope it helps.
> 
> 
> if you have any further question, just PM me.



I switched it to movie mode last week a couple days after I bought the TV. I just checked it again and it was no longer in movie mode. Not quite sure how it got changed. Perhaps when my friend hooked up the HDMI connection.


So, if I stay in movie mode I don't need to worry so much about the black bars causing bad retention or burn-in? I was prepared to switch out of HDMI mode when I watched one of my 'black bar' shows, but after comparing the two pictures and seeing how much brighter and nicer the HDMI connection is (not to mention the much better sound) I'd really rather not if I can help it.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skidpad* /forum/post/15772842
> 
> *Dangfish*: Welcome aboard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To eliminate the "aw $hit!" factor when posting, type your post in some sort of text editor (Microsoft's Notepad or something similar) FIRST, and then when you are ready to post, copy & paste it into the forum message reply window. That way, if it doesn't actually upload and post for some reason, you don't need to type your message again...you can simply paste it again...
> 
> 
> /hijack



You can also just copy it from the forum message reply window before you post, that's what I do if I am writing a lengthy post.


----------



## zEli173

Well, I've got letterbox burn in on my 2006 Panasonic. It's not devastating, but it's not a happy thing either. Although I have operated under the assumption that burn in on modern plasmas is a small very small threat, I've always taken excellent care of my plasma and followed appropriate guidelines found on AVS. Sad. (No, it is no IR.)


Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is a "reverse" letter box DVD floating around this thread or elsewhere in these parts, but I'm having trouble locating it now that I'm in need. Can someone please point me to it?


Edit: OK, I now see the recommendation in Post #2 of the original "Burin-In" thread is to set the PDP to display gray/white bars and turn off the source device (i.e. cable box). I'm doing that, is there any reason a specialized DVD would offer me a more effective solution.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zEli173* /forum/post/15777885
> 
> 
> Well, I've got letterbox burn in on my 2006 Panasonic. It's not devastating, but it's not a happy thing either. Although I have operated under the assumption that burn in on modern plasmas is a small very small threat, I've always taken excellent care of my plasma and followed appropriate guidelines found on AVS. Sad. (No, it is no IR.)
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is a "reverse" letter box DVD floating around this thread or elsewhere in these parts, but I'm having trouble locating it now that I'm in need. Can someone please point me to it?



How do you know you have burn in of the letterbox? Isn't the letterbox just black bars? Are you seeing darker areas of color around the sides where the letterbox would be? If so, that is uneven phosphor wear and not burn in.


----------



## zEli173

Huh?

_
WHAT IS "BURN-IN"


Typically, "burn-in" is defined as an uneven wear of a phosphor based display unit (Plasma and CRT for example). It is the phenomena of being able to "see" the remnants of something that was being "displayed" even though you are watching totally different content. It is not image retention which goes away._


I have uneven wear on the sides of my screen -- where the sidebars are displayed for 4:3 viewing -- which results in visible darkening. That's not burn in?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zEli173* /forum/post/15778268
> 
> 
> I have uneven wear on the sides of my screen -- where the sidebars are displayed for 4:3 viewing -- which results in visible darkening. That's not burn in?



What you're describing doesn't sound quite right. This is probably because you're not fully describing what has happened but it could be something else.


First: letterbox is bars at the top and bottom of a (unsually) 2.35 movie. Boxing on the sides is called pillarbox. Pillarboxing is often darker than the image (or even black) but it can brighter-- current Panasonic plasmas have a variety of pillarbox brightness settings. If the pillarbox is brighter than the average picture level (APL) of the 4:3 area then the pillar area will age more and be *dimmer*. If the pillarbox is darker than the 4:3 area then it will age less and be *brighter* when a gray field is displayed.


If you're saying that sides of your screen are dimmer because of 4:3 pillarbox using black pillars then it's odd.


----------



## zEli173

Ah, I see part of the confusion is that I inadvertently wrote letter box instead of pillar/side bars. To be clear, the problem is in the pillar bar areas.


----------



## bonscott87

You should be using grey or light sidebars during 4:3 viewing. Or stretch it to fill the screen.


----------



## Dangfish

Is there a way to turn my letterbox black bars into gray bars on my Samsung plasma? And I'll repeat my earlier question to anyone that knows something about Samsung plasmas: Do I not have to worry about letterbox black bar burn-in if I watch HDMI connection in movie/cinema mode?


----------



## jredd109

word on the net is that i could find some help or an opinion here. i recently had to have the panel replaced on my samsung 4264 after a row of pixels burnt out on the original panel.


basically i forgot about having to break in the screen before going at it seriously and ended up with a residual image from an icon in call of duty 4. i ran the screen burn protector for 3+ hours immediately after i finished playing. it has been fading but i can still definitely see it.


i was hoping that i could get some advice on how to get rid of the image. will the break in DVD take care of it or does it just need time to completely fade through regular use?


thanks!


----------



## Singh007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jredd109* /forum/post/15809155
> 
> 
> word on the net is that i could find some help or an opinion here. i recently had to have the panel replaced on my samsung 4264 after a row of pixels burnt out on the original panel.
> 
> 
> basically i forgot about having to break in the screen before going at it seriously and ended up with a residual image from an icon in call of duty 4. i ran the screen burn protector for 3+ hours immediately after i finished playing. it has been fading but i can still definitely see it.
> 
> 
> i was hoping that i could get some advice on how to get rid of the image. will the break in DVD take care of it or does it just need time to completely fade through regular use?
> 
> 
> thanks!



I would just play some full screen content overnight and i think that'll do it. I have a panny plasma, and i started with the break-in cd, but half way through i aborted mission and just left the TV on full screen content for about 15 hours a day with low picture, brightness etc. I would turn it on when i was sleeping or not home, and turn it off once in a while to give it a rest. I've got no Ir or burn in at all.


----------



## jredd109




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Singh007* /forum/post/15810864
> 
> 
> I would just play some full screen content overnight and i think that'll do it. I have a panny plasma, and i started with the break-in cd, but half way through i aborted mission and just left the TV on full screen content for about 15 hours a day with low picture, brightness etc. I would turn it on when i was sleeping or not home, and turn it off once in a while to give it a rest. I've got no Ir or burn in at all.



i've been running the screen burn protector in the morning and when i go to bed for a couple hours at a time.


when i got the new panel i totally forgot about the break in period and continued using it like it was a year old. i think that it should be fine (hopefully). thanks singh!


----------



## unf0rg1ven

Alright, so I received my th-42pz80u this this past friday. I've been "breaking in" with some normal tv viewing since I got it. Right now it's on Cinema mode in zoom with all of the settings right around 50-60. I've seen recommendations to use both high and low settings. High settings supposedly will help the phosphors age faster and more accurately and the low ones will take longer? I'm a bit confused as far as this goes. Also, should I do absolutely no gaming during this period or would a game or two of Madden 09 be alright until I'm fully broken in. Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## dross333

My quick thoughts on 150 hour burn in. We ordered the 111 before we even had a stand to put it on. So, the burn in is not taking away from viewing as I have no where to put this yet. Also, wouldnt it make sense to put this set to the test during the first 30 days, when you can still return it?


-David


----------



## goonstopher

I need some calibration help...


I am totally lost on how to do it. Are these the right basic steps.


1. Download the program


2. Get the right cable


....And from there ha I am lost....


Is there an easy FAQ or user quide to calibration?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *goonstopher* /forum/post/15834407
> 
> 
> Is there an easy FAQ or user quide to calibration?



Here are a couple of resources. The first is in the calibration forum which may be a better source of answers than the plasma forum.
Basic guide to CMS 
Grayscale for Dummies


----------



## altaguy

so i got my parents to buy a 42 700u model in jan 2007. It gets about 3 - 4 hours of use a night. From jan 2007 - jan 2008, it was used to watch only 4:3 content. Some times it would stay on all night for 10+ hours in the 4:3 mode. When I hooked up the HDTV receiver last month, I knew there were going to be bars that stood out clear as day in 16:9.


When the first dark scene came on, there they were, pretty darn clear. The tv is now used to watch HD content about half the time. After a month of this, the bars are barely visible in pure black screens, and I suspect will be gone in a short amount of time. I actually just quickly looked for it during a dark scene and I was not able to find them. I think it's just on pure black background scenes that they are barely visible now.


this tv was never broken in either


----------



## goonstopher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/15834988
> 
> 
> Here are a couple of resources. The first is in the calibration forum which may be a better source of answers than the plasma forum.
> Basic guide to CMS
> Grayscale for Dummies




Thanks... I'll digest all I can. I really just plan on using d-nice's settings but need to figure out HOW to get them set up.


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *unf0rg1ven* /forum/post/15832953
> 
> 
> Alright, so I received my th-42pz80u this this past friday. I've been "breaking in" with some normal tv viewing since I got it. Right now it's on Cinema mode in zoom with all of the settings right around 50-60. I've seen recommendations to use both high and low settings. High settings supposedly will help the phosphors age faster and more accurately and the low ones will take longer? I'm a bit confused as far as this goes. Also, should I do absolutely no gaming during this period or would a game or two of Madden 09 be alright until I'm fully broken in. Any feedback would be appreciated.



I would be careful with Madden, because of the score bar. It uses that bright white line, along with the EA logo, and it's on the screen almost continually except during the replays. My older Panny plasma still gets ghosting for a bit after I play even though the set's long been broken in.


I wouldn't stress too much about gaming during the break in if the game you're playing doesn't have a lot of static images or uses a lot of cut scenes. But Madden's particularly bad because the static image is very bright and on nearly all the time.


Honestly, a game of Madden here or there is probably okay, but I'd just advise a little caution. I played Madden 06 on my XBox when I broke my TV in and didn't have problems, but the score bar was not quite as bad as it is now.


----------



## granville

I have a pz 80 with about 75 hrs on it. Is it ok to watch a dvd movie that displays black bars on top and bottom. I have tried stretching it but can't get rid of them.


----------



## Buckeye911

^ Yes granville, it's fine. I started with black bars on my pz800u at around 50 hours, you'll get a little IR but it goes away fairly quickly.


----------



## mvp2005fan

I searched this thread and didn't see this particular point mentioned--my apologies if it has already.


If you decide to extract the break-in images directly to a thumb drive, be sure to double check them before using.


After I had started yesterday, I watched the first few slides and thought everything looked good, but discovered today after 36 hours, one of the red slides was corrupted and the image wasn't all there.


It's no big deal--just reformated the USB drive and extracted to it again; Image files are fine now. However, I'm glad I discovered this before going through all 150 hours. (Not that it probably would have mattered in the long run, but if I'm going to bother breaking-in the thing, may as well do it as per recommendations







)


----------



## geester1

On Samsung plasma TVs they have the facility to reduce burn by re-aliugning the pixels, I do not use plasmas I rather prefer LCD displays.


----------



## Holiday121

I am going to be picking up a plasma. It's a sammy 510z I plan on doing extreme gamig sometimes 10 hours straight. Should I reconsider to a LCD?


If I run the 100 hours burn in does it have to be straight or can I turn the tv off and restart again another time


----------



## ZBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Holiday121* /forum/post/15876383
> 
> 
> I am going to be picking up a plasma. It's a sammy 510z I plan on doing extreme gamig sometimes 10 hours straight. Should I reconsider to a LCD?
> 
> 
> If I run the 100 hours burn in does it have to be straight or can I turn the tv off and restart again another time



I *love* my Plasma, and I have never seen IR on my Pioneer, but if you play games for 10 hours at a time, often, I would personally get an LCD. Plasma's really are designed for video, not _continuous_ gaming.


I play Rock Band for several hours at a time on occasion with no effects, but 10 hours a day I personally think is over the limit for Plasma.


Re. burn-in time, it does not have to be continuous.


----------



## xbr3xbr3

hello



I am running the USB burn in files with the "slide show" thru the usb port instead of the burn in DVD....


the color screens have about 12 secs of time between color pics.....is this enough?


I think the DVD runs 30 secs between screen changes...just want to be sure.



AND, what is IR? is that "image retention"?


Like when the screen has "faint ghost images" from a DVD menu screen or something?



I have that ever so slightly....will the "burn in" remove that?



thanks!


allen



samsung pn58a650


----------



## GoLaLakers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xbr3xbr3* /forum/post/15885984
> 
> 
> hello
> 
> 
> 
> I am running the USB burn in files with the "slide show" thru the usb port instead of the burn in DVD....
> 
> 
> the color screens have about 12 secs of time between color pics.....is this enough?
> 
> 
> I think the DVD runs 30 secs between screen changes...just want to be sure.
> 
> 
> samsung pn58a650



Good question. I just started the break in process today and I am am having the slides change every 30 secs. Is that good?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xbr3xbr3* /forum/post/15885984
> 
> 
> hello
> 
> 
> 
> I am running the USB burn in files with the "slide show" thru the usb port instead of the burn in DVD....
> 
> 
> the color screens have about 12 secs of time between color pics.....is this enough?
> *It's fine.*
> 
> 
> I think the DVD runs 30 secs between screen changes...just want to be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> AND, what is IR? is that "image retention"?
> *Yes*
> 
> 
> Like when the screen has "faint ghost images" from a DVD menu screen or something?
> *Yes*
> 
> 
> 
> I have that ever so slightly....will the "burn in" remove that?
> *Yes but so will normal viewing of programming that fills the screen.*
> 
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> allen
> 
> 
> 
> samsung pn58a650



Responses are within the quote in bold italics. Enjoy your plasma.


----------



## xbr3xbr3

buckey911,


thanks!


allen


----------



## waltah

i made the break svcd but its running like a damn strobe light










the colors are changing really fast, i thought they were supposed to change every 30 seconds?


----------



## Ice Max

I have a vizio Vp322 Plasma, and am having some minor IR issues. During the first 100 hours (I think I'm almost there or just passed the mark) I watched all kinds of 4:3 and 2.35:1 content. Usually this IR is pretty easy to get rid of using the TV's image cleaner, but there is some nasty IR I simply cannot get rid of from the Playstations 3's XMB. I have very faint columns across the TV where the menu options lay when using the PS3, and there are darker gaps in between them. Is there anyway to get rid of this and keep it from happening again?


**EDIT**

Almost forgot, is there a way to do Grey bars on the Ps3 or a Verizon HD cable box for 4:3 and 2.35:1 content? The vizio does'nt have an option for it at all.


----------



## vader8806

just a quick question.....i have read that when breaking a set in whether using a disc or pictures or whatever, you should turn the contrast down, my question is, if you are trying to wear the phosphors in, then why wouldnt you want to break in the set on max settings because wouldnt it be quicker??? thanks


----------



## Barrikus

I have a Panasonic 46PZ80U, and I have a few questions about IR/BI. The TV has been broken in, I'd say it has more than 160 hours of use. During the first 100 hours I had it play full screen (Zoom mode for black bars) standard def TV, and some blu-ray movies. I started playing video games at around the 70 hour mark, but I never had the settings above 50 during this time. Apart from the green phosphor trails (I can only see them if I look for them though) the set is great.


Now, on to my questions.


1) I noticed one day that if I leave the TV menu on for about 10 seconds, I can still see it after I close it. Why does this happen after such a short period of time? In one of my games, I see the SEGA logo pop up for about 4 seconds, and if I look closely at the screen, I can see the image. I only see these when I'm quite close to the screen and all the lights are off, so it's no problem at all. I just want an answer







.


2) Like the above scenario, but if I leave an image on for around a minute, I can easily see it from anywhere in the room, even with some lights on. A good example is when I pick a game on my PS3. When you select a game to play, it usually shows a splash screen before you run the game, in this case it's the Killzone 2 demo. I left the splash screen on for around a minute (I like the music ) while I got my movie. After I put the movie in and it went to a black screen, I could easily see the Killzone 2 logo from my couch, which is about 6 feet away. I thought the break in would stop these kind of IR issues, so why does it still come up after leaving a logo on for such a short time?


3) What does the pixel orbiter do? I assume it moves the pixels around a bit, but exactly how does it do this? And what about the settings for it? I can set it to Force 1, 2, 3, 4, or automatic. Does force mean it sets it to move the pixel every second, minute or hour? And how does automatic differ from Force?


Thanks







.


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vader8806* /forum/post/15947392
> 
> 
> ... if you are trying to wear the phosphors in, then why wouldnt you want to break in the set on max settings because wouldnt it be quicker?



This has been discussed. At length. I think all the current talk of break-in is derived from the D-Nice Kuro process and blindly applied to every other plasma which often leads to questions about whether or not the process is rational.


----------



## greenjp

Barrikus,

The situation you're describing, being able to see menus and whatnot when you switch to a completely blank screen, is very normal and nothing to worry about. Lots of posts on it, unfortunately there's no good searchable term for it









It has nothing to do with the mechanism that would cause troublesome IR or burn in. There is some sort of residual charge or phosphorescence that you notice when the screen goes blank, but it's not uneven wear.


jeff


----------



## Philip Frederick

For those of you who have recently downloaded evangelo2's break-in images... have you noticed that Slide8 and Slide9 look identical?


I can see the difference in color in every slide except for these two. I plan to use evangelo2's images on a thumb drive to break in my PRO-111FD once it arrives. I wonder if it is just my computer monitor, or if there really is no difference in color or brightness between these two slides.


Have any of you noticed this, or am I the only one










Thanks!


----------



## lightforce18

i set the break in images to 30 seconds each on my thumb drive. I think thats the best setting


----------



## distinct101

you know whats crazy, I read all 48pages.







...I feel sick.


----------



## dude101

This thread is scaring me away from buying a plasma.


If burn-in is truly a non-issue, why is this thread so big?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dude101* /forum/post/15971788
> 
> 
> This thread is scaring me away from buying a plasma. If burn-in is truly a non-issue, why is this thread so big?



Because some people believe it remains an issue. Because people keep asking about it in their search for reassurance.


People do have differences of opinion and different first hand experience. My personal experience is that much of what's proscribed here comes from Pioneer observations and is irrelevant to my non-Pioneer plasma.


A more cynical observer might say "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".


----------



## joebloggs13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dude101* /forum/post/15971788
> 
> 
> This thread is scaring me away from buying a plasma.
> 
> 
> If burn-in is truly a non-issue, why is this thread so big?



Like many other plasma owners have said, "the ONLY way to rid yourself of this fear of BI is to become a plasma owner". Then you will see BI is a thing of the past and IR is only temporary and wont damage the set. There have been some where this is not the case, but that is usually a defective set, and NOT the norm with plasmas today. Believe me, I used to be skeptical, and was going to purchase an LCD, and then did some research and made in store comparisons and took the plunge with plasma(not even a high-end set), and never regretted it. JoeB.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jredd109* /forum/post/15811952
> 
> 
> i've been running the screen burn protector in the morning and when i go to bed for a couple hours at a time.
> 
> 
> when i got the new panel i totally forgot about the break in period and continued using it like it was a year old. i think that it should be fine (hopefully). thanks singh!



You are wasting time and electricity.

Any IR will go away on its own. Period.

No need for this ritual. Unless of course, you like rituals.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutsandbolts* /forum/post/15743832
> 
> 
> I'd not say no one questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *there are those of us who do not perform the break in. I am not doing any break in other than watching it normally on my 111fd. I see no logic in wasting 150 hours of my plasma's life and electricity for nothing. I say nothing because nobody here can prove that it makes a difference.*
> 
> But I am still on this thread because I want to learn more. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here and I am learning about my new TV. So far I have not read anything that would make me believe that the burn in process makes a difference worth the wastage of electricity etc.



You nailed it.

Enjoy your sets!

I have not "broken in" any of mine and they work perfectly.

Any IR you experience will go away on its own and remember, IR is something that can happen, and its not a big deal.


----------



## ricohman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/15710794
> 
> 
> Smear yourself in butter and dance around a fire whooping.
> 
> Or you could just use it, no borders, no logo sources such as animation movies, or 24 TV series on DVD.



LOL!

I agree!

I also put my money where my mouth is. 2 new plasmas last year (3 now!) and zero break in.

Out of the box and in full usage. Gaming, movies, you name it.

No problems. Just like the millions of other consumers.

But, if someone feels like smearing on some butter and running a break in disc...

I have no problem with that.


----------



## gutty96

You know, I started off with the intention of doing the "break in". I ran the USB images for 2 nights, maybe 20 hours or so, and thought, "This is dumb". SO, I just started watching my TV.


Guess what, it is now 4 months later, and everything is FINE. I have yet to see even a HINT of IR on this TV. In fact, I don't even think I know what even looks like, as I haven't even seen anything to make me say "I wonder if that is IR"


I gotta say, if you buy a plasma. Just watch it. This whole "break in" is just becoming a myth.


----------



## guerillaw

Another issue is people conflating burn-in and break-in.

Sure, breaking in your set during its theoretically (I gamed on my kuro and nothing happened) vulnerable early hours may prevent burn-in, but not anymore than careful viewing would. Break-in is about the (also theoretical) idea that if the pixels are used evenly during their early life, they will be more likely to perform at their best during normal use.

Whether burn-in occurs is an almost entirely separate issue. *Ultimately, I think the fear of break in on newer sets is entirely based on paranoia that naturally comes with owning an expensive piece of equipment.*

Who wants to be responsible for ruining an expensive display? So folks are more vulnerable to fear of burn-in and the warnings take on more and more life accordingly.
*I say this, because it happened to me!*

I got my kuro home and did not want to do anything that might hurt my "baby."

Bottom line though, I watched stretched SD, played a ton of Street

Fighter IV, and watched letterbox programs -- among other things, right out of the box and the TV was/is fine.


Keep the orbiter on, run the video pattern once in a while for extra caution and all will be well. Speaking for Kuro's anyway, but I bet other manufacturers are just as savvy to preventing IR issues.


----------



## Futly

I just got my Pro-111 2 days ago and started to wonder after I read about running the disc during the "break in" period. So I emailed Pioneer directly and this is the response I got from them....


"_Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.Pioneer does not have a recommendation for this. We suggest approximately 250 hours of full motion video, no static images.


Thank You, Pioneer Support Group_"



Just sharing what they told me for what it's worth.


Futly


----------



## Farland

I have a Samsung P63A650. I have some questions about avoiding IR and burn-in (I haven't noticed a trace of IR yet, thankfully).


1. I have my VMC computer hooked up to the TV, so the set gets very limited use as a computer monitor, although I am careful not to leave stationary screens on for too long. Is stationary screen time "cumulative" when it comes to burn in, or will watching moving pictures in between use as a computer monitor "reset" burn-in time and protect against it?


2. I have the Samsung anti-burn in feature set to 4 horizontal, 4 vertical every 2 minutes. Would it provide more protection to set it to 4-4-1, and would that effect the picture, or is it good the way it is?


----------



## toca




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Futly* /forum/post/16025539
> 
> 
> I just got my Pro-111 2 days ago and started to wonder after I read about running the disc during the "break in" period. So I emailed Pioneer directly and this is the response I got from them....
> 
> 
> "_Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.Pioneer does not have a recommendation for this. We suggest approximately 250 hours of full motion video, no static images.
> 
> Thank You, Pioneer Support Group_"Futly



Just to piggy back on your email from Pioneer, this is their response to my query on whether Pioneer had any documentation with regards to break in:

"Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

Sorry, there is no documentation to provide.

We do not recommend any media, just full motion video"


Thank You,

Pioneer Support Group


----------



## woogoob

I have Kylin TV (IPTV - Chinese) service hooked up to a new Kuro 151 via S-Video (Component Input taken up by DVD player) and the problem is that the signal from this service has 1" black border on all sides. I'm a bit worried about IR, since my wife watches a lot of this. I've have gone thru all the different zoom modes on the elite, not one of them filling the whole screen. I also wrote Kylin to see if they have any suggestions and am still waiting for a response. Should I be even worried about IR or does anyone have any suggestions on someout getting a full screen picture?


----------



## LeM22

Here's my 2 cents. I just bought a new Panny X1 entry level after a lot of research. I think it's a great buy for me and my family. I don't have a lot of money to _burn_, so I'm being extra careful. I've watched about 40 hours or so of HDTV and have avoided any hour shows or movies in 4:3 with any bars, logos, etc. I'm just being cautious.


I finally figured out how to make a SVCD since I don't have a DVD burner yet (download a trial of Nero 368MB, get EVangelo2's http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa..._DVD_R_ISO.zip nrg file for SVCD and after you unzip it, right clip and go to open with and then Nero's. It will set it up. Burn it to a CD RW and then pop it in your DVD player and it will loop for 24 hours).


I plan to run it for about 120 hours over the next few days and then I'm done.


But, if I had a lot of money to burn, I probably wouldn't be so careful. I really don't think that anything will happen negatively with burn in, I think IR may happen occasionally but it will fade once on a full HD channel. I'm more concerned about maximizing my color on the plasma, and reentering the service menu to adjust according to D-Nice's TC-P50X1 analysis.


I've been very pleased with the plasma right out of the box, but I'm aiming for more.


----------



## superstring

Couldn't quite decide where to post this; this seemed as good a thread as any.


This concerns my Pioneer PDP-5020FD. I'm sure this issue has already been asked/answered long ago, but I came across this bit of information on another site and it kind of freaked me out. I'm sure D-Nice's break-in info/break-in DVD has been carefully put together, but maybe someone could comment on this:

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/how2adj.html 



> Quote:
> A new television should be broke-in before calibration to minimize any effects from the electronic components aging - use the TV in a normal manner, 4 to 5 hours a day for at least a week. If you do decide to burn it in, *make sure that normal program material is being used, NOT online guides, station logos, etc., and that the contrast control is turned all the way DOWN. You only want to burn in the circuitry, NOT the tube phosphors*!



Yikes! What say you all?


PS Thanks for indulging me!


----------



## tcs_architect

Help !!

I just got my Samsung 58 inch 650 yesterday. was not really concerned with running a 100 hours of a dvd to break it in..but was trying to keep everything full screen for first few days. At least that was the plan.


During the night I was running cartoon network on HD from the satellite and my wife woke me to say something was wrong. The sat. had lost signal and rebooted and the static image was on the screen. I think this was on there less than 30 minutes but it could possiblly have been an hour or at the very most 1:20 minutes since I had gone to bed. I've been running the image burn thing that swipes across the screen since then, but can still see it on certain dark scenes! I went to blue only mode and can see some of the icons faintly from the menu as well. I've been told this will not be permanent also told to run the DVD that is on the forums here.


Anyone with experience on one of these can can ease my fears???


----------



## C5VETTE

I noticed more of the cable networks are keeping their logos (and larger ones at that) up on screen - like Travel Channel, NBC, cartoon Network, Sci-Fi sometimes, etc..


Are we fairly safe with the on screen logos since every 15 minutes or so there are commercials to break them up?


My Pan 50pz85u gets delivered later today and I'm just wondering....


And if anyone can post the link or # settings for the break in (I know contrast/brightness turned down) would be appreciated.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *C5VETTE* /forum/post/16059782
> 
> 
> I noticed more of the cable networks are keeping their logos (and larger ones at that) up on screen - like Travel Channel, NBC, cartoon Network, Sci-Fi sometimes, etc..
> 
> 
> Are we fairly safe with the on screen logos since every 15 minutes or so there are commercials to break them up?
> 
> 
> My Pan 50pz85u gets delivered later today and I'm just wondering....
> 
> 
> And if anyone can post the link or # settings for the break in (I know contrast/brightness turned down) would be appreciated.



Set the contrast to 50 or lower and be sure to watch full screen content. That's all you really need to do. If you want to be deliberate about it (I did not) you can download the break in images and run them at 100% contrast.


As for logos, I've been watching a ton of basketball the past couple of months, mostly on ESPN and ESPN2. They have a very bright, high contrast logo. This is actually the first thing I've noticed causing any image retention on my set, a Panasonic 50PX77, in the 15 months I've had it. On solid color screens shortly after changing channels I can sometimes see an outline of the ESPN logo. It disappears pretty quickly, ranging from a minute or two (watching hockey) to 5-10 minutes with other shows or Xbox. I can't see it on normal content and it completely disappears.


jeff


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *C5VETTE* /forum/post/16059782
> 
> 
> 
> My Pan 50pz85u gets delivered later today and I'm just wondering....
> 
> 
> And if anyone can post the link or # settings for the break in (I know contrast/brightness turned down) would be appreciated.



Did you check the PZ80/85 owner thread or "calibration" thread?


----------



## isleep

I'm not concerned with burn in on normal viewing. However, I'm wondering if someone could describe the likelihood of permanent burn in if a plasma like the panasonic s1 is left on overnight on the menu screen of a dvd. A couple times this year I've woken with our CRT tv left on the menu screen of one of the kids dvds. Very static image/lots of solid colors.


ie, if this happens once, would our new plasma be toast.


This is really the only concerns keeping me from going plasma.


Thanks.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *isleep* /forum/post/16065137
> 
> 
> I'm not concerned with burn in on normal viewing. However, I'm wondering if someone could describe the likelihood of permanent burn in if a plasma like the panasonic s1 is left on overnight on the menu screen of a dvd. A couple times this year I've woken with our CRT tv left on the menu screen of one of the kids dvds. Very static image/lots of solid colors.
> 
> 
> ie, if this happens once, would our new plasma be toast.
> 
> 
> This is really the only concerns keeping me from going plasma.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Panasonics have an auto shut down feature, where after a few hours if they haven't recieved a control input they turn themselves off. So you shouldn't have to worry about something being left on overnight.


jeff


----------



## johnnyb05

i think some people are missing the point of running the break in disc. its not to prevent damage to your set. its so that you can use D-nice reference setting after disc use. that will get the set close to a calibration as your going to get (without getting one)


----------



## C5VETTE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/16060145
> 
> 
> Set the contrast to 50 or lower and be sure to watch full screen content. That's all you really need to do. If you want to be deliberate about it (I did not) you can download the break in images and run them at 100% contrast.
> 
> 
> As for logos, I've been watching a ton of basketball the past couple of months, mostly on ESPN and ESPN2. They have a very bright, high contrast logo. This is actually the first thing I've noticed causing any image retention on my set, a Panasonic 50PX77, in the 15 months I've had it. On solid color screens shortly after changing channels I can sometimes see an outline of the ESPN logo. It disappears pretty quickly, ranging from a minute or two (watching hockey) to 5-10 minutes with other shows or Xbox. I can't see it on normal content and it completely disappears.
> 
> 
> jeff




Thanks - that's good to know. I can't wait to use my plasma for the upcoming NFL season!


----------



## Skidpad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/16067983
> 
> 
> Panasonics have an auto shut down feature, where after a few hours if they haven't recieved a control input they turn themselves off. So you shouldn't have to worry about something being left on overnight.
> 
> 
> jeff



Additionally, they have multiple "timers" that can be set to turn the tv on/off on a regular basis.


I have mine set to shut off at certain times every day (morning after junior goes to school in case he forgets, and late night when I fall asleep on the sofa), just so I don't have to worry about static images or lost signals (but I do have that feature turned on).


Use your timers, and enjoy your plasma...I absolutely love mine!


----------



## tripleM

I ran my notoriously IR, suspected quality, Sammy 5054 for 10 days - 24/7 on the CN @ low teens picture/color settings. It was literally darker than black & white if you can believe it.

Unwatchable for 10 days.


No IR or panel problems of any kind in over a year of use.


I'm sold on break in.


----------



## Hotkey

I'm a noob and after reading the forum posts, I may be more confused now than when I started reading. I just bought a Panasonic Viera TH-58PZ800U and wonder if I need to "break it in" or just watch "normal" TV programming/DVDs? Thanks for the help.


----------



## giddyup69

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Philip Frederick* 
For those of you who have recently downloaded evangelo2's break-in images... have you noticed that Slide8 and Slide9 look identical?


I can see the difference in color in every slide except for these two. I plan to use evangelo2's images on a thumb drive to break in my PRO-111FD once it arrives. I wonder if it is just my computer monitor, or if there really is no difference in color or brightness between these two slides.


Have any of you noticed this, or am I the only one










Thanks!
nope.... you're not wrong. i checked it in photoshop. i thought my eyes were deceiving me as well. funny enough... yours seems to be the only post that mentions it... i can't believe no one else has noticed this.


i've attached what i think should be the correct colour. cheers.

 

Slide09-1080p.zip 2.6787109375k . file


----------



## unf0rg1ven

I have a question for anyone that may be able to offer me some feedback. I bought a Panasonic TH-42PZ80U back in February and took the necessary precautions of breaking it in for the first 150+ hours of viewing. After that period I did some light video gaming with my ps3 on it after receiving my HDMI cables and then moved up to more moderate time periods. Well, recently for spring break I went out of town for a week and unplugged my tv and moved it to the bedroom in the closet so it wouldn't be out in open view while I was away. Upon my return I just bought the new mlb 09 baseball game and as I'm playing a game or 2 at a time I'm noticing some IR of the home plate and foul lines and other things from the game and we're talking just barely maybe an hour of playing time if not a little more. Beforehand I had played hours of Madden and guitar hero and things like that with no IR whatsoever. I notice that when I switch back to normal tv viewing eventually this IR will go away after some time. Is there a away to prevent this? I feel like my tv is regressing. Is this a precautionary sign of imminent Burn in? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as I am still fairly new to all of this. Thanks for your time if you bare with me enough to actually read my entire post lol.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hotkey* /forum/post/16122887
> 
> 
> I'm a noob and after reading the forum posts, I may be more confused now than when I started reading. I just bought a Panasonic Viera TH-58PZ800U and wonder if I need to "break it in" or just watch "normal" TV programming/DVDs? Thanks for the help.



You're fine with normal viewing. Just keep your contrast and brightness dialed down a little for the first 100 hours or so. Also don't over do it with static images and pictures that don't fill the screen. A couple of hours with black bars while watching a movie is okay. On my 50pz800 I just adjusted the THX settings to my liking and then kept them there for the first hundred hours. I played plenty of BDs and HD DVDs with black bars without a problem. You will definitely get some image retention but it dissipates pretty quickly. Enjoy your TV, it's fantastic. After the first couple of hundred hours the picture gets even better.


----------



## Hotkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/16126342
> 
> 
> You're fine with normal viewing. Just keep your contrast and brightness dialed down a little for the first 100 hours or so. Also don't over do it with static images and pictures that don't fill the screen. A couple of hours with black bars while watching a movie is okay. On my 50pz800 I just adjusted the THX settings to my liking and then kept them there for the first hundred hours. I played plenty of BDs and HD DVDs with black bars without a problem. You will definitely get some image retention but it dissipates pretty quickly. Enjoy your TV, it's fantastic. After the first couple of hundred hours the picture gets even better.



Good news!!!! Thank you.


----------



## esswun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stradaONE8* /forum/post/14267568
> 
> 
> . . . I have been using a USB key with the slides loaded directly playing on slideshow mode on my Pioneer 5020 and it works like a charm. So for those of you having issues with the disc, try this method. Additionally it saves your DVD player from having to run while your TV is breaking in. A win-win if you ask me.



I searched this thread concerning the USB files and the Pioneer 5020FD but the above represents the only result, so my apologies if I ask a silly question.


I DLd the images to my USB drive and set them to run as a slideshow on my 5020. However, I had to play around with the slideshow settings on the TV and I'm not sure if I have them right for this TV. I was hoping someone who has also used USB on their 5020 can verify if my settings are correct or if they will cause no harm.

*SETTINGS:

1. Picture settings according to D-Nice's post

2. Slideshow mode

3. Effect: Blackout (each image fades in AND out to black)

4. Duration: 30 seconds

5. Repeat All*


This seems to be working OK; I am only about 8 hours into my break-in after setting the TV up late last night. The only thing that I don't like about this method is that as the 21 images cycle through, there is about 9-10 seconds of plain black between each colored image. I assume this is just this particular TVs method of operation as it switches to the next photo/slide when using this mode. Is there a way to speed this up and have the images cycle immediately after one another after the determined duration has run out (I imagine this is the way the DVD works)?


In any event, thanks Evangelo2 for providing these images for us and thanks in advance to anyone who can address my concerns in this post.


----------



## ChrisM_NJ

I won a 50 inch Panasonic TH-50PE8U Plasma TV in a raffle. The problem is the people giving the TV away displayed it for a while with a fish tank screen saver.

When I have a white background, (Hockey games) for instance I can see slight remnants of the screen saver.

Under all other viewing the picture looks perfect it is just with white backgrounds I have a problem.


Is this image retention or burn in?

Is there a way to undo or reduce it.


The TV is from Best Buy and I have the receipt, I don't know if I can return it, or buy the Geek Squad plan which apparently covers Burn in..


Any suggestions? I was considering using the jscreenfix DVD, but wanted to hear from the people here first.


Thanks


----------



## icarusil

Hello


i am about to get my first plasma TV


i was wondering why and if new models still need the break-in procedure?


this model 42pg60ur has
*White wash,Orbiter and Inversion*


does this prevent all the IR and Burn-in?


can i just skip the Break-in procedure?



thanks for any help


----------



## bsavitz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icarusil* /forum/post/16164672
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> i am about to get my first plasma TV
> 
> 
> i was wondering why and if new models still need the break-in procedure?
> 
> 
> this model 42pg60ur has
> *White wash,Orbiter and Inversion*
> 
> 
> does this prevent all the IR and Burn-in?
> 
> 
> can i just skip the Break-in procedure?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for any help



I'm no expert but this has been discussed many, many times here in these forums. The consensus of opinion seems to be that a formal break-in is not necessary as long as you take some precautions. You can just watch and enjoy the TV but for about the first 150 hours or so you should try to watch mostly full screen content and avoid static images as much as possible such as those annoying logos that ESPN, and others display.

I downloaded the break-in images to a thumb drive but I've now decided not to use them and just enjoy the TV.


----------



## MahouTensai

Hi, I'm about to receive my 46G10... my first hd tv and I'm totally unfamiliar with alot of stuff/terms=noob... so I'm sure I saw some posts about being able to download a break-in file on an sd card? Can anyone point me to the right thread/post?


----------



## superstring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MahouTensai* /forum/post/16183358
> 
> 
> Hi, I'm about to receive my 46G10... my first hd tv and I'm totally unfamiliar with alot of stuff/terms=noob... so I'm sure I saw some posts about being able to download a break-in file on an sd card? Can anyone point me to the right thread/post?


 http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089


----------



## markabuckley

why is best way to break in a Plasma not just to leave a white (with contrast turned down to some extent) screen on ?


exercises all the phosphors to the same amount then ??


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markabuckley* /forum/post/16217667
> 
> 
> why is best way to break in a Plasma not just to leave a white (with contrast turned down to some extent) screen on ?...



I may be completely missing the point but as far as I can tell the "break-in image" regime was intended for Kuro owners who wanted to use D-Nice's settings after the "break-in". Even he doesn't seem wedded to the idea that break-in is required.


Back in the day there were people that did believe the correct way to stabilize plasma phosphors was to use gray patterns with the white level turned *up*. Panasonic tech. docs suggest that the panel is "pre-aged" and requires no further action to stabilize the phosphors. Panasonic consumer documentation is of two (or more) minds. Of course I'm only familiar with my model.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

Figured I post this in here as well:


I've had my PX80U for 6-7 months and have well over 1,000 hours on the set and have watched quite a few 2.35:1 DVD's. Normally the IR from the black bars goes away after a few minutes of full screen content. But after watching Black Hawk Down last night, the top IR line from the black bar wouldn't quite go away. Even after nearly 3 hours of watching full screen content and using the scrolling bar for 10-15 minutes I could still see very faint IR from the top black bar when on a blank input. I always have the pixel orbiter set at 1 minute when I watch 2.35:1 films and this is the first time I've had an issue with this. I have the television set on Cinema with Contrast set at around 71, so it's not at max brightness or anything. I broke the set in for the first couple hundred hours by watching just full screen content. Anyone have any tips?


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16237384
> 
> 
> I could still see very faint IR from the top black bar when on a blank input.



So you're saying the top of your display is brighter or dimmer than the rest when you have "blank" input?


----------



## David Susilo

Contrast of 71 is very high for that TV


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bodosom* /forum/post/16237671
> 
> 
> So you're saying the top of your display is brighter or dimmer than the rest when you have "blank" input?



No, just by nature of bright skies in exterior shots being brighter than the bottom of the image, the top bar is more prone to retention. It did eventually go away this morning though. I think I may have figured out that setting the color setting to warm will help. I initially had it set to warm, but felt the television had warmed up, but having now put it back on warm from normal, the picture is a little better and less garish.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/16237808
> 
> 
> Contrast of 71 is very high for that TV



Not when you're in Cinema mode. 71 is about 45 or so in Standard or Custom. 70 to 75 is a typical setting for this set.


----------



## chwisch87

Usually I have my PX80U to zoom in on 2.40 to 1 content .... its soo good and yea you knock off a bit so i what i usually do is switch back and forth. During action scenes I will go to full 2.40 to 1 and just regular moments I zoom in. Honestly i am sure i would have no issues if i just left it on 2.40 and played some full screen content for a while afterwards however.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

I'm an OAR nut, so zooming in isn't that good for me. I did for the first couple of months and that was kind of painful. I'm not going to do a Lord of the Rings marathon or anything, but a two to two-and-a-half hour film is a must.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16238662
> 
> 
> Not when you're in Cinema mode. 71 is about 45 or so in Standard or Custom. 70 to 75 is a typical setting for this set.



The ones I calibrated for theatre settings (dark room) have never been more than 61.


----------



## Chere

Hi All,


After downloading the slides to my thumbdrive it reads as " an error is preventing this slideshow from playing" on my computer. Iam though able to open each individual slide and view it.


I have a new samsung PN50A650 and it is not recognizing the thumbdrive when inserted.


I tried going the dvd-r route but my dell laptop only has windows media player so I don't think it is compatible with the softwares listed for the dvd-r format.


Any help is greatly appreciated


----------



## Buckeye911

^ I wouldn't worry about it. The whole break-in images thing is not really necessary. All you need to do for the first hundred hours or so is avoid overdoing static images and keep your contrast to 50% or lower. Don't overdo the black bars either but having them on a couple hours straight is fine. Just enjoy your new TV, you will get some temporary image retention but it will go away with normal viewing that fills the screen.


----------



## Chere

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind but I would rather keep IR from occuring at all.


Anyone else kind enough to help me with this?


Thanks.


----------



## Buckeye911

^ You will still get IR even if you do run break-in images. It is usually only visible on a blank screen but you will get it.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/16242543
> 
> 
> The ones I calibrated for theatre settings (dark room) have never been more than 61.



That's strange. Just about everyone's calibration settings in the main thread for the PX80 all have contrast set above 70 on Cinema. Are you sure that you're using Cinema? Also, what's your brightness and other settings?


----------



## David Susilo

I always set the contrast for watching in the dark. At 71, the whites are searing my clients' eyes.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/16244804
> 
> 
> I always set the contrast for watching in the dark. At 71, the whites are searing my clients' eyes.



I'm sure it's fine for in the dark, but for daytime viewing, it may not quite be enough. Perhaps I'll try setting it close to the mid 60's and see how I like it. Thanks.


----------



## David Susilo

the first hours of watching, you'll find it to be dark-ish, but you'll get used to it.


For all my Pioneer setup, most people set contrast to 38 but I tend to set my clients' (andmy onw) setting to 38 for daylight and 28 for nighttime viewing.


----------



## curly21029




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16240754
> 
> 
> I'm an OAR nut, so zooming in isn't that good for me. I did for the first couple of months and that was kind of painful. I'm not going to do a Lord of the Rings marathon or anything, but a two to two-and-a-half hour film is a must.



I'll agree that zooming simply isn't a solution, especially with a lot of action movies. A lot of directors use very tight shots during chaotic sequences (_Quantum of Solace, The Bourne Trilogy_) and gimping whatever narrow scope there is instantaneously makes my eyes hurt.


Can you actually see this IR while watching content or is it only present on a completely white/black screen? If the latter, then I wouldn't worry about it. Put any plasma under a microscope and you'll find some sort of IR, but if it isn't detracting from the viewing experience then why concern yourself with it?


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/16244834
> 
> 
> the first hours of watching, you'll find it to be dark-ish, but you'll get used to it.
> 
> 
> For all my Pioneer setup, most people set contrast to 38 but I tend to set my clients' (andmy onw) setting to 38 for daylight and 28 for nighttime viewing.



I lowered my contrast to 65 and it looks great and very film like with the warm color setting, even during the daytime. Thanks for the tip.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curly21029* /forum/post/16245290
> 
> 
> Can you actually see this IR while watching content or is it only present on a completely white/black screen? If the latter, then I wouldn't worry about it. Put any plasma under a microscope and you'll find some sort of IR, but if it isn't detracting from the viewing experience then why concern yourself with it?



Usually, if the full screen content isn't very bright, I can see a faint outline for a few seconds, but if the content is bright, it's not noticeable. It's only really noticeable on a blank input screen. The other night when I watched Black Hawk Down was the first time the IR has lasted more than a couple of minutes. But with the new settings, that should help the situation.


----------



## chwisch87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16245796
> 
> 
> I lowered my contrast to 65 and it looks great and very film like with the warm color setting, even during the daytime. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually, if the full screen content isn't very bright, I can see a faint outline for a few seconds, but if the content is bright, it's not noticeable. It's only really noticeable on a blank input screen. The other night when I watched Black Hawk Down was the first time the IR has lasted more than a couple of minutes. But with the new settings, that should help the situation.



You are the second person on this page that has had IR because of Black Hawk Down ... is that movie unusually bright? (i don't really remember and honestly hate over dramatized war movies).


----------



## doat1

When i do the scrolling feature and soon to start using the break in dvd, what should my settings be? I have Samsung plasma PN50A450, i was told to set my brightness and contrast to 80+ during scrolling and that does help clear IR. Should i also leave the scrolling feature on every night after a day's use? I mostly play video games and one game i play a lot has some static images like a little fuel tank gauge, etc. i took off most of the HUD to prevent IR like i had last time.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chwisch87* /forum/post/16246351
> 
> 
> You are the second person on this page that has had IR because of Black Hawk Down ... is that movie unusually bright? (i don't really remember and honestly hate over dramatized war movies).



Really? I didn't see anyone else post about it. It is a pretty brightly shot movie utilizing high contrast filtering, which gives it a kind of blown out look.


----------



## fogey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chwisch87* /forum/post/16246351
> 
> 
> You are the second person on this page that has had IR because of Black Hawk Down ... is that movie unusually bright? (i don't really remember and honestly hate over dramatized war movies).



This movie is actually under-dramatized comparing to the book and actual events it describes.







That apart, it is very bright indeed. I've calibrated my Samsung plasma so that luminance is just over 32 ftl (for the dark room), which is rather low. But watching Black Hawk Down I was tempted to low it down a bit more.


----------



## agogley

doat 1, run a calibration Cd in your xbox or PS3. After the break in period, recalibrate it. This will reduce your brightness so you wont have IR.


----------



## biko9502

Quick question. I will soon be picking up a new plasma panel and will be given the opportunity to fully check it out before accepting it. Can I use the burn-in dvd to check for dead or stuck pixels? Or do I need a black screen as well? Also, what other things should I check for prior to taking it home? Thanks.


----------



## jwilliamson

I have what you would call moderate-servere IR, not sure yet that it is burn in. I played left 4 dead for 8 hours on "Game Mode" on my Samsung PN50A450. I have been running the scrolling screen and jscreenfix which is pretty much colored random noise. I have put between the two of them about 3 hours each and still have a faint image of the HUD, it is only noticeable on the white or scrolling screen. Would you say this is burn in or just strong IR. What is the best way to eliminate it. I saw a post somewhere that said the all white screen may work better at getting rid of it. I think mixing it up help too that way all the pixels on the screen are getting a full workout. Thanks for the help.


----------



## srk99us

Hi,


I just bought the 58A550 and could anyone please provide me the breakin settings that I should have for this using the BreakIn DVD?


Also, if someone has the "best" calibration link to the DVD and settings for this.


Much appreciated.


SRK99


----------



## evenbone

I've been trying to display the break-in images via usb flash drive, using my PS3. I have the files saved to the flash drive as JPEG images. The PS3 is recognizing the flash drive when connected, but is not reognizing any images.


Does anyone have any advise on this? Do the images need to be saved as different file types? Do they need to be kept in a folder of a speacific title?


Thanks for your help on this.


Mike.


----------



## Farland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwilliamson* /forum/post/16270090
> 
> 
> I have what you would call moderate-servere IR, not sure yet that it is burn in. I played left 4 dead for 8 hours on "Game Mode" on my Samsung PN50A450. I have been running the scrolling screen and jscreenfix which is pretty much colored random noise. I have put between the two of them about 3 hours each and still have a faint image of the HUD, it is only noticeable on the white or scrolling screen. Would you say this is burn in or just strong IR. What is the best way to eliminate it. I saw a post somewhere that said the all white screen may work better at getting rid of it. I think mixing it up help too that way all the pixels on the screen are getting a full workout. Thanks for the help.



Has it lessened? 8 hours doesn't sound like enough time to burn it in? I'd say it is IR and will eventually go away.


----------



## riverhound

I'll be getting my KRP500 today and had a question on the break-in. I have an old DVD player I plan to use that has RCA and Component, but I only have RCA cables. Is that ok for break-in or should i go pick up a set of component?


----------



## motorpotor

I posted in the panasonic s1 thread but I got my tcp46s1 set up today, and I am currently running the break in cd on standard settings. should this be set to standard?


----------



## Thewhitebloke

hey there,


i bought a Samsung PN50A650 a couple of months ago and have been very happy with it, but a couple of days ago i got image retention from my xbox 360, the thing is i didnt really leave it on pause long enough to get it.


And again i got some image retention though you can only see it while u have the tv on he white screen, though it has gone.


im wondering if this image retention will keep on happening and lead too burn in??? my contrast setting was on 80 but i put it on 45 when i first got image retention.


i cannot enjoy watching tv, dvd's and gaming without thinking im gonna get burn in and have been very paranoid lately. And another question, is image retention normal??


thank you


----------



## Farland

Image retention is normal. As far as burn in goes, just vary your use of your set-- some gaming, some movie/TV watching, and you should be fine. You don't just play one game do you? Even if you do, it would take A LOT of playing to get burn in.


----------



## Thewhitebloke

no i play other games of course, though when i first got my plasma the contrast was set to 80-90 and i just changed it to 40 3/4 days ago, so will it be easier to get image retention? i got some image retention from halo 3 though u can only see it when u set the plasma to all white and its still very hard to see, unless u go right up to the tv.


thanks


----------



## Thewhitebloke

well i put on a dvd for an hour 1 or 2, and i came back to see if the ir was gone and it was.


then i was watching some news, all i wanted to do was check for some updates and now i put the plasma on the all white screen and i can see a bit of the time on the bottom right corner,and some headlines at the bottom of the screen, though you cant see it while watching tv or playing games or anything. though u have to really get up close to the tv to see it.


is it normal for ir to come back straight away??? this is really getting annoying and now im a bit worried to play video games.


----------



## Farland

Lowering the contrast should make you less susceptible to IR and burn-in. If you just bought the set, it will be more prone to IR and burn in in the first 250 hours of use (some say 1000 hours). Just be smart-- vary your viewing and try to stick to full screen and you ought to be okay.


----------



## Thewhitebloke

how do u find out how many hours your tv has been on???


i have a samsung series 7 ps50a650.


----------



## Rollingrox

I have just unboxed my 46inch G10 and I am starting the 120 hours playing the slideshow per D-Nice but I wondering if I could leave it on during the day while I am at work as this is my bedroom TV and don't want it on at night. I noticed one guy has a color stuck for a few hours as he was using the cd/dvd(?)...should I worry about a slide getting stuck if I am using the card reader? If I could leave it on during the day and turn it off at night this would speed the process a ton. Any insight would help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rollingrox

Okay...I am leaving it on 24-7, is this okay?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Okay...I am leaving it on 24-7, is this okay?



Why waste power? Just watch TV normally making sure it's full screen with no logos.


motorpotor you're quick brave to trust a glass stand with a large screen plasma.


----------



## Hotkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom* /forum/post/16374007
> 
> 
> Why waste power? Just watch TV normally making sure it's full screen with no logos.
> 
> 
> motorpotor you're quick brave to trust a glass stand with a large screen plasma.



How the heck do we deal with logos? They're everywhere.


----------



## C5VETTE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thewhitebloke* /forum/post/16345502
> 
> 
> no i play other games of course, though when i first got my plasma the contrast was set to 80-90 and i just changed it to 40 3/4 days ago, so will it be easier to get image retention? i got some image retention from halo 3 though u can only see it when u set the plasma to all white and its still very hard to see, unless u go right up to the tv.
> 
> 
> thanks



How long did you play Halo 3 for?

I play 360 games and get no IR on my Panasonic 50pz85u


----------



## mope54

motorpotor,


what kind of leather floor chair is that on the left side of your 2nd picture?


----------



## pschwarz

anyone know how to get rid of 4:3 IR - i didn't know about running 4:3 with black bars the 1st couple of weeks. I've tried everything and I get get the screen to even out. I only notice when there is no signal and the room is fairly dark. But it won't go away even with hours of full screen viewing


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pschwarz* /forum/post/16382362
> 
> 
> anyone know how to get rid of 4:3 IR - i didn't know about running 4:3 with black bars the 1st couple of weeks. I've tried everything and I get get the screen to even out. I only notice when there is no signal and the room is fairly dark. But it won't go away even with hours of full screen viewing



Turn on the brightest bars on a black screen. That should help to even out the wear.


----------



## binarybin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thewhitebloke* /forum/post/16345959
> 
> 
> well i put on a dvd for an hour 1 or 2, and i came back to see if the ir was gone and it was.
> 
> 
> then i was watching some news, all i wanted to do was check for some updates and now i put the plasma on the all white screen and i can see a bit of the time on the bottom right corner,and some headlines at the bottom of the screen, though you cant see it while watching tv or playing games or anything. though u have to really get up close to the tv to see it.
> 
> 
> is it normal for ir to come back straight away??? this is really getting annoying and now im a bit worried to play video games.



Does your set have any anti image retention features? like an ORBITER? if so was it turned on? orbiter just shifts the whole image a few pixels around every Minute or so, suppose to help with getting image retention.


----------



## awp

While I've had some IR with my PN50A550, I was shocked last night after playing just 10 minutes of Space Invaders Extreme on my 360. Went to switch inputs and had major IR that I had never really seen as bad before (and I play quite a bit of games). The sides of the game have bright white boxes and lines that are causing it.


This was just the demo and I really had considered purchasing it, but now am having second thoughts. The IR went away, but what if I was playing it for an hour instead of 10 minutes? (this is obviously not the kind of game that you can save and pickup later)


----------



## RONLG

I'll be getting my first plasma TV soon. I'm afraid that the annoying TV logo on the bottom of the screen is going to "burn-in"

Surely there must be a group trying to stop the stations from putting their annoying logo on the screen.


----------



## Kryptron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RONLG* /forum/post/16418320
> 
> 
> I'll be getting my first plasma TV soon. I'm afraid that the annoying TV logo on the bottom of the screen is going to "burn-in"
> 
> Surely there must be a group trying to stop the stations from putting their annoying logo on the screen.



I know a lot of stations now use a light grey logo, depending on your settings it will be less likely to get IR from that type of logo. But some stations still use color logos and that is something to worry about if you use high contrast settings on your display and watch for a few hours. You would think in this day and age with almost every tv/cablebox/satellite receiver and dtv box having a guide and channel name your tuned to, i don't see the need to have the logo through the entire program either. I guess people with just basic analog cable need logos, but in the age of digital programs i don't see the need for it.


----------



## greenjp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awp* /forum/post/16415608
> 
> 
> While I've had some IR with my PN50A550, I was shocked last night after playing just 10 minutes of Space Invaders Extreme on my 360. Went to switch inputs and had major IR that I had never really seen as bad before (and I play quite a bit of games). The sides of the game have bright white boxes and lines that are causing it.



So, you saw a ghost image/IR on a blank screen as you were changing inputs? If that's the case you have absolutely nothing to worry about. It's a very different phenomenon than IR and burn in. There's a new thread about this every month or so. For whatever reason (residual voltage, phosphorescence, ?), when you switch from something with high contrast to a blank input, ghost images & outlines remain visible. When you say the IR went away, do you mean you could see it for a while over actual content, or that it seemed to be gone once you started watching something else?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RONLG* /forum/post/16418320
> 
> 
> I'll be getting my first plasma TV soon. I'm afraid that the annoying TV logo on the bottom of the screen is going to "burn-in"
> 
> Surely there must be a group trying to stop the stations from putting their annoying logo on the screen.



It shouldn't. I spent a lot of time over the winter watching college basketball on ESPN - they have a bright red logo. Yes, occasionally I'd see it's outline after changing stations, but it always went away, quickly. Less than a couple of minutes. I've been watching shows with logos and playing games with HUDs for the 16 months I've had my set and there is no burn in.


jeff


----------



## awp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/16421923
> 
> 
> So, you saw a ghost image/IR on a blank screen as you were changing inputs? If that's the case you have absolutely nothing to worry about. It's a very different phenomenon than IR and burn in. There's a new thread about this every month or so. For whatever reason (residual voltage, phosphorescence, ?), when you switch from something with high contrast to a blank input, ghost images & outlines remain visible. When you say the IR went away, do you mean you could see it for a while over actual content, or that it seemed to be gone once you started watching something else?
> 
> jeff



Well, it definately was present on the blank screen when switching inputs, but it also was there to a lesser extent for I'd say at least 5 minutes over actual content (seen when going to dark scenes), but then went away. I played it again and the same happened. This time I used the scrolling bar pattern and full white to help get rid of it. Kind of scary, but I guess it's okay. Like I said -- I'm just afraid to play it for a longer period of time.


I should mention that I've also had this happen with my PS3's XMB due to the white bright lines, but I'm usually never using that for more than a minute or two so it's never as pronounced as this was.


----------



## goonstopher

I would love to be able to calibrate my 111fd buy I can't find an easy "how to"


On the other board that supports the software they have a negative attitude towards "dumb" questions.


I only know I need the program, some kind of cable and then the settings but have no idea about the steps of making it work.


I am not totally happy with its performance and need to calibrate it to fix it.


Does anyone have a step by step?


----------



## fogey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *goonstopher* /forum/post/16440387
> 
> 
> I would love to be able to calibrate my 111fd buy I can't find an easy "how to"



Here you can find some useful information:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


----------



## goonstopher

Wow for all that cost I could have it done by a pro.


I just wanted to use the program mentioned in this thread and use the settings gicen rather than get so into it but how to hook it up, what the right cables are and how to work the program are just confusing because there is no simple explanation anywhere.


----------



## thechancellor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evenbone* /forum/post/16325586
> 
> 
> I've been trying to display the break-in images via usb flash drive, using my PS3. I have the files saved to the flash drive as JPEG images. The PS3 is recognizing the flash drive when connected, but is not reognizing any images.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any advise on this? Do the images need to be saved as different file types? Do they need to be kept in a folder of a speacific title?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help on this.
> 
> 
> Mike.



The PS3 is tricky, and I don't know why it does this... When you go to choose the flash drive, sometimes images and movies don't show. Try it again, but this time just highlight the flash drive on the PS3 and press TRIANGLE. There should be a "show all" or "view all" option there. Choose it, and hopefully your images will show.


If not, you'll have to change the format on your computer somehow and try again. Hope this helps.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> while I've had some IR with my PN50A550, I was shocked last night after playing just 10 minutes of Space Invaders Extreme on my 360. Went to switch inputs and had major IR that I had never really seen as bad before (and I play quite a bit of games). The sides of the game have bright white boxes and lines that are causing it.
> 
> 
> This was just the demo and I really had considered purchasing it, but now am having second thoughts. The IR went away, but what if I was playing it for an hour instead of 10 minutes? (this is obviously not the kind of game that you can save and pickup later)



That's a little scary. Did you break-in the TV at all prior to using it? I got my Panasonic S1 plasma on Saturday and was running the Break-in slideshow since that evening. I was at about 36 hours before I gave COD5 a shot. Played it for a little over an hour and there wasn't a single issue with IR, which was surprising considering the amount of static images there are when you're in a match.


My advice? (Assuming you didn't break it in, but for those who don't plan to) Make sure you at least break-in the TV for 2 days. Not everyone has the patience to run a slideshow for 5 days straight, so meet the standard halfway. What with all the IR talk I'd be skeptical to use my TV normally right out of the box anyway.


----------



## awp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thechancellor* /forum/post/16443884
> 
> 
> That's a little scary. Did you break-in the TV at all prior to using it? I got my Panasonic S1 plasma on Saturday and was running the Break-in slideshow since that evening. I was at about 36 hours before I gave COD5 a shot. Played it for a little over an hour and there wasn't a single issue with IR, which was surprising considering the amount of static images there are when you're in a match.
> 
> 
> My advice? (Assuming you didn't break it in, but for those who don't plan to) Make sure you at least break-in the TV for 2 days. Not everyone has the patience to run a slideshow for 5 days straight, so meet the standard halfway. What with all the IR talk I'd be skeptical to use my TV normally right out of the box anyway.



Yes, my TV was broken in and is well past the 200 hour mark (I wouldn't be surprised if it's already got over 1000 hours). I actually play many other video games (including COD5 since you mentioned it) and haven't had a problem. Even if there is IR, it goes away very quick. However, with Space Invaders Extreme, it was...well, extreme. Much more pronounced IR and a longer retention period --- although it does go away, eventually.


----------



## jps1012

Hey....I am ordering the Panasonic TC-P50G10 tonight. I am new to all of this. I want to do the right thing with breaking this in. I am a heavy video game user. Can someone please explain to me how the break in dvd works? Is it something I can buy, instead of burning to a dvd? Any advice on breaking in this tv would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jps1012* /forum/post/16454657
> 
> 
> Any advice on breaking in this tv would be greatly appreciated!



Read the first post and follow the links.


----------



## Doc99

Hello. I have a Samsung Plasma for about 5 months, and I watch probably 80% SD programs. I do not like to stretch mode, and keep it in 4:3 with the gray sidebars. I have recently been noticing a line when watching in HD exactly where the sidebars would be. It's like the side edges are slightly brighter. Will the scrolling feature help remove this? I thought using the light gray sidebars prevented burn In, if that is what this is?


----------



## ParadoxSeven

So are retro games on the Xbox 360 just out of the question? like galaga, it has side bars that don't move, would these games never be played on a plasma, ever? heard mention of Space Invaders Extreme, that game is great, but should that game also never be played on a plasma? if so, its just sad we can't play such games.


----------



## vid33nyc1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jps1012* /forum/post/16454657
> 
> 
> Hey....I am ordering the Panasonic TC-P50G10 tonight. I am new to all of this. I want to do the right thing with breaking this in. I am a heavy video game user. Can someone please explain to me how the break in dvd works? Is it something I can buy, instead of burning to a dvd? Any advice on breaking in this tv would be greatly appreciated!



I want to get that set myself.I am a HARDCORE gamer and i was worried of the burn in issue and heard that you have to break in the Plasma first before using it.So after this breakin period i shouldnt worry?


----------



## gdog2004

question..I have seen no evidence of any IR/burn in on my new panasonic S1 but I accidentally left the tv on with no cable signal(blank dark screen but no signal..but still...on)... for like 4 hours...any harm to this ? Seems to be ok


----------



## BruZZi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gdog2004* /forum/post/16487807
> 
> 
> question..I have seen no evidence of any IR/burn in on my new panasonic S1 but I accidentally left the tv on with no cable signal(blank dark screen but no signal..but still...on)... for like 4 hours...any harm to this ? Seems to be ok



No problem at all.


.


----------



## silvertongued17

I've been searching this forum for ages now on break-in theories, and both camps on the issue. The logic behind evenly aging the phosphors before viewing makes much sense, but I was wondering if this would help eradicate some of the phosphor trailing people have seen on their plasma displays when watching or playing games. I have a Panasonic Viera G10 coming Friday and want to get a leg up on the situation. If this has been discussed before a link would be awesome. Thanks guys


----------



## bodosom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silvertongued17* /forum/post/16521492
> 
> 
> I was wondering if this would help eradicate some of the phosphor trailing people have seen on their plasma displays when watching or playing games.



No. Searching for green trails/phosphor trails/purple snakes will take you to relevant threads.


----------



## Chere

I'm having problems adjusting the time gap between each slide to 30 seconds on my thumb drive. For some reason, each color slide stays on for 10 seconds instead of 30 before it moves on to the next slide on my sammy PN50A650. Can someone help me by telling me how i can fix this on my computer? Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Ictusbrucks

Hi,


I read through the first several pages of this thread and didn't see a clear answer to this:


I keep seeing people mention that you need reduced brightness and contrast for the first ~200 hours of breakin if you're watching fullscreen video, but that the OPPOSITE might be true if you are using the break-in DVD.


Samsung's wiki page pointed me to these settings for break in: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post10425599 


But others seem to say if you're using the break-in DVD that I should crank up the intensity to quicken the aging of the phosphors since theres no chance of uneven wear.



My TV will be the samsung PN63 B590.


Is there any final word on whether its a good idea to turn brightness up for the Breakin DVD????


----------



## TheDave0206

Hi-- Newbie


I got my tc-p50s1 about a month ago, but have used it sporadically (long story). Unfortunately, I had no idea about break in or the like before reading this forum recently. The only thing I used my tv for was playing MLB 2009 (which has a static score bar at the top, with a diamond for the baserunners). I have possibly played 20-30 hours max (I would assume much less, but it's always better to overestimate) Anyway, whenever the room is completely dark, and I stand near the screen, I can see the diamond at the top faintly, as well as other images on the screen, including the outline of the menu for the image retention safeguards that I have been trying to use. Generally, I will play one or two games, with 3 being the maximum, and then be done for the night. Often I will play for one night and then not play again for a week (rarely ever play on back to back nights). I noticed the images last week, haven't played all week, then turned the tv on and they are still there whenever the screen is completely black. These images are not visible from any distance, but are still worrisome to me. Is it possible that this is burn-in even though the images didn't stay on the screen for long periods, and can I still use a break-in of some sort to rectify the problem? Any help is greatly appreciated!!


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheDave0206* /forum/post/16546549
> 
> 
> Hi-- Newbie
> 
> 
> I got my tc-p50s1 about a month ago, but have used it sporadically (long story). Unfortunately, I had no idea about break in or the like before reading this forum recently. The only thing I used my tv for was playing MLB 2009 (which has a static score bar at the top, with a diamond for the baserunners). I have possibly played 20-30 hours max (I would assume much less, but it's always better to overestimate) Anyway, whenever the room is completely dark, and I stand near the screen, I can see the diamond at the top faintly, as well as other images on the screen, including the outline of the menu for the image retention safeguards that I have been trying to use. Generally, I will play one or two games, with 3 being the maximum, and then be done for the night. Often I will play for one night and then not play again for a week (rarely ever play on back to back nights). I noticed the images last week, haven't played all week, then turned the tv on and they are still there whenever the screen is completely black. These images are not visible from any distance, but are still worrisome to me. Is it possible that this is burn-in even though the images didn't stay on the screen for long periods, and can I still use a break-in of some sort to rectify the problem? Any help is greatly appreciated!!



Do you see the IR during regular play or only on a dark screen. If you only see it on a dark screen or blank input, don't worry. It's typical. If you see it all the time, you need to lay off the gaming for awhile and just play some 16X9 full screen content for awhile. When gaming, remember to set the pixel orbiter to 1 and move to "Cinema" mode and turn the settings down in the 50 and 60 range for brightness and contrast.


If you're going to exclusively use this television for are games, you may want to check into an LCD if this kind of problem is bothersome for you.


----------



## jeff6666p

How do you get rid of IR


----------



## TheDave0206




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16547126
> 
> 
> Do you see the IR during regular play or only on a dark screen. If you only see it on a dark screen or blank input, don't worry. It's typical. If you see it all the time, you need to lay off the gaming for awhile and just play some 16X9 full screen content for awhile. When gaming, remember to set the pixel orbiter to 1 and move to "Cinema" mode and turn the settings down in the 50 and 60 range for brightness and contrast.
> 
> 
> If you're going to exclusively use this television for are games, you may want to check into an LCD if this kind of problem is bothersome for you.



This will be our family tv soon, on which I will do moderate gaming. I did the scrolling bar for awhile last night repeatedly, and for the most part, the image faded. In all honesty, from more than 3 feet away, you can't even see the ghosting. Nonetheless, even if it is on the screen for only like 2 min., any solid figure (menu box, static logo, etc...) can be lightly seen when close and the screen is on but all black.


I appreciate the help offered above a great deal. Can I still do a break in so as to age it somewhat and make this less likely to happen? Thanks again!!


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheDave0206* /forum/post/16548535
> 
> 
> This will be our family tv soon, on which I will do moderate gaming. I did the scrolling bar for awhile last night repeatedly, and for the most part, the image faded. In all honesty, from more than 3 feet away, you can't even see the ghosting. Nonetheless, even if it is on the screen for only like 2 min., any solid figure (menu box, static logo, etc...) can be lightly seen when close and the screen is on but all black.



What your describing is normal IR. You will always see some kind of IR on a completely black screen or blank input. If the IR is fading away after awhile of using the scrolling bar or normal full screen use, then don't worry.



> Quote:
> I appreciate the help offered above a great deal. Can I still do a break in so as to age it somewhat and make this less likely to happen? Thanks again!!



If you want, but as long as you use common sense, you really don't need to break in a plasma. Just be careful for the first few hundred hours.


----------



## protomind

How come there is not yellow in the break in SD card images? There is grey shades, red, green and blue. No yellow. Should I worry about this?


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *protomind* /forum/post/16550806
> 
> 
> How come there is not yellow in the break in SD card images? There is grey shades, red, green and blue. No yellow. Should I worry about this?



cyan, magenta, and yellow are secondary additive colors. the primary colors are red/green/blue which make all the others colors.


----------



## Antaeus

Hi all new to the forums.


Ill try to keep it as short as possible. Basically this thread has me spooked. I've been warned for years about IR/BI on plasmas. Never even considered one. However, my recent research uncovered the seeming lack of concern for IR on new models. (Even convinced me to order a V10 series Panasonic which is "pending" as we speak) Now I run across this thread and it sounds more and more, to me at least, that IR is still inevitable. First, I game... period. Maybe not everyday but in at LEAST 5 hr sessions on a good night. Secondly and unfortunately "black bars", or underscan bars, or what have you will be a part of my viewing. Quite possibly for long periods. I am more than willing to spend the 120hrs for break in no questions asked. (BTW, I truely love these new panasonics. Far and away my first choice as far as PQ etc goes. Hands down the best besides kuro IMO) My question is this: Giving my habits should I cancel my order before its too late and order an LCD? Or can I sleep perfectly happily knowing I wont have to change my habits to fit my TV instead of vice versa? After giving the proper break in of course


Thanks!


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Antaeus* /forum/post/16565532
> 
> 
> Hi all new to the forums.
> 
> 
> Ill try to keep it as short as possible. Basically this thread has me spooked. I've been warned for years about IR/BI on plasmas. Never even considered one. However, my recent research uncovered the seeming lack of concern for IR on new models. (Even convinced me to order a V10 series Panasonic which is "pending" as we speak) Now I run across this thread and it sounds more and more, to me at least, that IR is still inevitable. First, I game... period. Maybe not everyday but in at LEAST 5 hr sessions on a good night. Secondly and unfortunately "black bars", or underscan bars, or what have you will be a part of my viewing. Quite possibly for long periods. I am more than willing to spend the 120hrs for break in no questions asked. (BTW, I truely love these new panasonics. Far and away my first choice as far as PQ etc goes. Hands down the best besides kuro IMO) My question is this: Giving my habits should I cancel my order before its too late and order an LCD? Or can I sleep perfectly happily knowing I wont have to change my habits to fit my TV instead of vice versa? After giving the proper break in of course
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Let's just get this out of the way - you *will* get IR with any plasma. It's natural and normal and most of the time, not noticeable unless your staring blankly at a black screen. And unless you're a complete idiot who abuses his/her belongings, you will never ever get permanent burn-in. You would have to leave a still image on the screen for a day or two for that. No, don't go for an LCD if you're going to do more than play games. If you were going to use the set exclusively for 100% gaming, I would at least think about LCD, but really plasma has better motion, colors, and blacks so its better for everything. The only drawback is occasional IR. As long as you keep the pixel orbiter on "1", turn the settings down to normal natural levels, and use some common sense, you'll be perfectly fine. I watch a great deal of 2.35:1 DVD's (no games for me) and yes, I see IR after finishing a DVD, but it goes away after a few minutes of standard 16:9 television. I wouldn't advice watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy straight through or anything, but you'll be fine for 3-4 hours. Turning the contrast down will help keep IR to a minimum as well. I have my PX80 set to 61 for contrast and it looks wonderful.


----------



## fourtytwoinch

There has been a panasonic 50X1 at my sears running 4:3 material looped. Its been on there for a few weeks.


I could not see the burn-in when it came back to the menu-screen of the dvd. I didn't look to hard.


i'll go back in a month and see what happens.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16578068
> 
> 
> There has been a panasonic 50X1 at my sears running 4:3 material looped. Its been on there for a few weeks.
> 
> 
> I could not see the burn-in when it came back to the menu-screen of the dvd. I didn't look to hard.
> 
> 
> i'll go back in a month and see what happens.



On a similar note, a local store has been running a Samsung plasma for awhile with 4:3 content and the IR or burn-in is pretty bad. I don't understand these stores. It's 16:9 content on a Blu-Ray player that they for some reason have set to 4:3 in either the player or television. A local theater had HD content playing the same way. Is it really so hard to simply adjust a setting? It takes like 10 seconds.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16578343
> 
> 
> On a similar note, a local store has been running a Samsung plasma for awhile with 4:3 content and the IR or burn-in is pretty bad. I don't understand these stores. It's 16:9 content on a Blu-Ray player that they for some reason have set to 4:3 in either the player or television. A local theater had HD content playing the same way. Is it really so hard to simply adjust a setting? It takes like 10 seconds.



I guess they just don't know what burn-in is. I'm just suprised it didn't have any. It had been in 4:3 for 2 weeks and was a new set.


----------



## PINOY_E90

Guys..


My PANNY TV 54V10 and Bluray BD60 was delivered on Tuesday, and it is still sealed in the box. I never open it yet because they are still painting the house... Tonight or Tomorrow i will open them up... I am so excited... then I read this forums about the BURN IN and the Break in hours stuff... Its scaring me... I have my Bluray Disk (Twitglight and Valkerie), Once it is setup... I will watch this movies on the new tv/bluray... Will I hurt my new V10 if I watch movies right away??? Or the BURN IN / Break In period only apply if you are to play Video Games... I do not plan on using it for video game until next year because I do not have one...


Thanks


----------



## BarryB1124

Hey everyone,


Pioneer 111 owner here. As a result of playing the World Series of Poker video game, I have discovered IR on the upper right corner of the screen. There is an image of an illuminated poker chip which appears during gameplay. Last weekend I noticed that the image of that chip is still on the upper right of the screen. I have been running the video pattern like crazy ever since then and I think it is fading. However, I can still see the image. Is there anything else I can do that might remove it faster? I have heard that running white noise might help? Where can I get that? Also, might the standard break-in slide slow help in removing it faster? I am a bit concerned because it has been a week and it still has not gone away. I did not concern myself with IR b/c I had not seen a hint of it with anything else. The stupid chip is not even something you notice during gameplay. I never left a completely static image on the screen for a length of time, just that the chip is on the upper right during an entire tournament. I would say I played for at most two or three hours consecutively. I was shocked when I saw the image. My calibrator had suggested turning off the orbiter because he said the 111 is very resistant to IR and that the orbiter reduces resolution. I did that, and at the time, I checked carefully for any signs of IR. None whatsoever. So I thought I did not have to worry. Since I have noticed this image, I turned the orbiter back on of course.


In addition, while running the video pattern, I have noticed a thin vertical line going down at about the last third of the screen. I can't tell if that is IR or maybe it is the protective coating. Fortunately, I cannot see it on real content. The image of the chip does make its way occasionally into real content and I would like to remove it. Suggestions please?


----------



## BarryB1124

As a footnote to this, I am going to run the break-in slides in ISF Day, using the cross sweep with 5 second intervals. This way I can run it all day while I am out instead of just for an hour like the video pattern runs. None of the slides is 100% white. If I had a 100% white slide I would just run that over and over.


I do notice with the cross sweep pattern that the slide gets brighter as it moves across the logo, just before going to black. I am hoping that is a good thing. I assume the differential in going from bright to black would help in the process.


----------



## BarryB1124

Any chance this might work?

https://www.createspace.com/256658


----------



## Doc99

Does Burn In eventually fade over time? I have Sidebar Burn In on my Plasma set. I was told to use the light gray sidebars when watching Unstretched 4:3 aspect ratio. I must have kept it on that mode to much. I now can see the ghost images of the sidebars during light scenes, like when I am watching hockey especially. I tried the scrolling bar for a couple weeks, and left the set on 16:9, but it did nothing. I wonder if it will ever blend in with the rest of the screen as the side phosphors become more active with use?


----------



## QuiGonJosh

Doc, you may want to try kicking up some of the settings in Vivid and leave it on a 16:9 program without any logos or tickers, perhaps a DVD. Are you actually seeing the lines clearly or is it just not aging evenly? That may help it to blend better. Are the bars or the middle section of the screen more aged? If it's the sides that are lighter (more aged) than the middle, try leaving it on a blank input with light gray sidebars for a little while. That may help to even it out.


----------



## Doc99

The sides of the screen are lighter. You can see a clear border. It is most noticible on a white screen where the body of the screen looks slightly darker then the sides.


----------



## vic949

Hello all, Just bought a Panasonic TH46PZ800U. My question about IR/BI is the following: when I go to a store and I spend time looking at plasmas, I never see any kind of IR/BI...why is that? Stores have the sets on vivid mode all the time, and I do not think that they take time to break in a new set before they put it on display. I have not noticed any kind of IR/BI on the TVs. Any thoughts abou this.

I apologized before-hand if this question has already been addressed.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vic949* /forum/post/16607928
> 
> 
> Hello all, Just bought a Panasonic TH46PZ800U. My question about IR/BI is the following: when I go to a store and I spend time looking at plasmas, I never see any kind of IR/BI...why is that? Stores have the sets on vivid mode all the time, and I do not think that they take time to break in a new set before they put it on display. I have not noticed any kind of IR/BI on the TVs. Any thoughts abou this.
> 
> I apologized before-hand if this question has already been addressed.



If you look closely you will probably see some IR, it is usually only visible from close up on a solid-color screen. IR is not a significant issue with today's plasmas because it is only rarely visible with normal viewing.


----------



## vic949

Thanks for your response Buckeye911 . You are right it is not noticeable. But how about the fact that they do not break in the sets, or do they?.

Any how, I am taking it easy with my new set. Everything is set to 50 in the picture controls, watching different type of content and no gaming for a while.


----------



## nzakaria

I have a PN58B560 and I am running these slides off of a usb drive... I have the slide show set at slow. My question is as follows..


I keep reading about setting the contrast high when running these images. However the media player on these new samsungs are accessed from a different menu screen altogether. in other words, it doesn't seem like the picture settings apply to the slide show.


Can anyone confirm or deny this? Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doc99* /forum/post/16607726
> 
> 
> The sides of the screen are lighter. You can see a clear border. It is most noticible on a white screen where the body of the screen looks slightly darker then the sides.



Then try out what I suggested, leaving the gray bars on a blank input (black screen) for a little bit. It should help to even out the screen. Hope this helps.


----------



## JDM5LugHatch

I am having image retention issues on my Panny after a lot of gaming. I haven't gamed this much since I was a kid. However, the static images from the game have left a very very subtle image retention. I can only see this when the screen is black, the lights are off, and the room is dark, but it's there and it bothers me. I have run the scrolling white bar 4 times and it has lessened it but it's still there.


Anyone have any other ideas on how to get rid of the ghosting? I have heard there are dvd's that will help with getting rid of it by blasting the screen with a white light for a few hours. I did the break in properly and don't really understand why I am having an issue with IR. I keep the Picture and brightness down in the 40's.


Since I have noticed this issue I set the pixel orbiter to Force 1 from auto. I have also kept myself from playing the game in question that caused this issue for a few days. Actually since the day I first noticed the IR.


Panasonic offers the scrolling white bar but do I need to do anything else like change the brightness to max or will this not matter?


I have "skimmed" through this thread and most say don't worry about it. However, I am wanting to play this game but not until the IR is resolved obviously I don't want to make the problem a permanent one.


----------



## Doc99

I just have this set connected with an HDMI cable, and nothing else. All the other source inputs are grayed out, so I can't choose one. Would I have to connect something else to the TV to change the source input?


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doc99* /forum/post/16613534
> 
> 
> I just have this set connected with an HDMI cable, and nothing else. All the other source inputs are grayed out, so I can't choose one. Would I have to connect something else to the TV to change the source input?



Go to a blank input where you have nothing connected, put it on 4:3 and the gray bars and hit the "info" button once to get rid of the display in the upper left corner.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JDM5LugHatch* /forum/post/16613497
> 
> 
> I am having image retention issues on my Panny after a lot of gaming. I haven't gamed this much since I was a kid. *However, the static images from the game have left a very very subtle image retention. I can only see this when the screen is black, the lights are off, and the room is dark, but it's there and it bothers me.* I have run the scrolling white bar 4 times and it has lessened it but it's still there.



If you can only see IR in these conditions, don't worry about it. It's normal. You'll pretty much always see some kind of IR with a black screen in the dark.


----------



## JDM5LugHatch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh* /forum/post/16613801
> 
> 
> If you can only see IR in these conditions, don't worry about it. It's normal. You'll pretty much always see some kind of IR with a black screen in the dark.



I understand this but I don't want it to become burn-in. If I can somehow get rid of this then limit my gaming time and run the white bar after every gaming session I would hope this would prevent future occurrences.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JDM5LugHatch* /forum/post/16613853
> 
> 
> I understand this but I don't want it to become burn-in. If I can somehow get rid of this then limit my gaming time and run the white bar after every gaming session I would hope this would prevent future occurrences.



I know where you're coming from. I felt the same way awhile back, but if you don't see it during normal viewing, it's of little consequence. Keep the pixel orbiter on 1 minute for sure. This alone will prevent permanent burn-in. Try maxing out the contrast or brightness settings in "Vivid" and run the white scrolling bar. It will almost be blinding, but it will help get rid of the IR quicker. Running normal 16:9 content without any logos or anything will do it as well. But really, if you're not seeing it when you're just watching the television, don't get worked up over it.


----------



## Doc99

This TV(Samsung) will not allow me to select another input except TV and what I have it on HDMI 1. The rest are grayed out, and I can't select them. If I select TV, it just has a snowy screen. I think I will have to connect a DVD player or something to get a black screen.


----------



## Zenfar

Hi guys, I was looking at buying a Plasma and I wanted a more exact break in method. So I wrote a program for the XBox 360. It is called Plasma TV Break In (I know very original). In the program the colors cycle through full RGB range (0-255), with the values changing by one every 34 milliseconds.


Some things you should know if you choose to use it:

1) The XBox screen saver should be off.

2) The trial mode is only 8 minutes, don't leave the TV in this mode.

3) The price 200 points is as low as I could go.

4) The XBox powers off after 6 hours of non-use so make sure you plan for that.

5) I made this for my own use but I hope you like it.

6) I can make changes/new apps if you guys have any ideas you would like to see.


The best way to find the app on the XBox is go to Marketplace -> Community Games and you will find it in the Other category. There is a splash image that I start the program with but it is not repeated, also I fade to an inverse of the image after displaying it, just wanted to start with a bang


----------



## prescott86

Can anyone share break in setting for Panasonic P42S10? I'm using EA Break In DVD images, but not sure what parameter needed


Thanks


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *prescott86* /forum/post/16624046
> 
> 
> Can anyone share break in setting for Panasonic P42S10? I'm using EA Break In DVD images, but not sure what parameter needed
> 
> 
> Thanks



You should read the thread and see if it answers your questions.


----------



## RolfSchewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Antaeus* /forum/post/16565532
> 
> 
> Hi all new to the forums.
> 
> 
> Ill try to keep it as short as possible. Basically this thread has me spooked. I've been warned for years about IR/BI on plasmas. Never even considered one. However, my recent research uncovered the seeming lack of concern for IR on new models. (Even convinced me to order a V10 series Panasonic which is "pending" as we speak) Now I run across this thread and it sounds more and more, to me at least, that IR is still inevitable. First, I game... period. Maybe not everyday but in at LEAST 5 hr sessions on a good night. Secondly and unfortunately "black bars", or underscan bars, or what have you will be a part of my viewing. Quite possibly for long periods. I am more than willing to spend the 120hrs for break in no questions asked. (BTW, I truely love these new panasonics. Far and away my first choice as far as PQ etc goes. Hands down the best besides kuro IMO) My question is this: Giving my habits should I cancel my order before its too late and order an LCD? Or can I sleep perfectly happily knowing I wont have to change my habits to fit my TV instead of vice versa? After giving the proper break in of course
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I have the same concerns. I couldn't have articulated it better myself.


----------



## saturation




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RolfSchewe* /forum/post/16662293
> 
> 
> I have the same concerns. I couldn't have articulated it better myself.



Plasma users will tell you that after the break-in period, the risk of burn-in is very low, most say its non-existent. So, if there are burn-in concerns to raise, its greatest during when your plasma TV is new.


The viewing style mentioned puts the TV at risk for IR/BI, but again, the plasma users claim you can run the TV through, what Samsung models call, their screen burn in protection modes to prevent or remove residual images kept on the screen. You can also run the TV through a break in disk before you do any hard core gaming to prepare the TV better.


I've posted elsewhere though, with some forum members getting irate, reiterating that plasma makers do not warrant their TVs against burn in. Likewise LCD don't against image retention. But know, IR is rare for LCD users so barely anyone complains about it on AVS, so not warranting it is moot; however the risk for burn-in in plasma is not moot, worse on some makers than others, but I think the risk is lowest with good brands like Panasonic, Samsung and less so, LG, who use the latest plasma technologies that with the cautions mentioned on how to prevent or fix it, it should not be an issue.


----------



## _kirk_

I got my 50" V10 about 3 weeks ago. I set the pixel orbiter to the most aggressive setting - once every minute. Other than that, I didn't do any further break-in procedures.


Most of my usage so far has been gaming, mostly Rock Band 2. I've watched some baseball off my digital cable box (HD, full screen) and some full-screen BD (Planet Earth) and just a little bit of letter-boxed movies (DVD & BD). I hadn't noticed any IR, and thought I was fine. However this Sunday night, after being away for the weekend and the TV not having been used, I powered on the TV to watch a movie; I wasn't getting any signal (turns out the HDMI cable on the back of my PS3 was loose), and in standing so close to the TV and having the screen on but no picture, I was in a position to notice that some IR has taken place - it's faint, the lights in the room have to be low and I have to be very close to the set to notice it, but there is some ghosting from the static images in Rock Band (the power meter bar on the left side of the screen, & the bottom of the guitar fret at the bottom center of the screen. I've run the scrolling white bar feature several times since then, and while I think it's reduced the ghosting a bit, it's still there.


I will be burning to DVD the break-in slideshow that is linked on these forums and running that for 100+ hours, as well as watching the rest of my Planet Earth BD's that I haven't yet seen and giving the Rock Band a rest for a while.


I'll post back my results. Hopefully it's not too let in the set's life to remove the IR that's occurred and properly break-in the phosphors to avoid future IR. I will be vigilant about running the scrolling white bar after any gaming and any letterboxed movies for the near future though, just to be on the safe side.


This is just a guess, but I suspect if I'd been aggressive about running the scrolling white bar feature after my 2-3 hour Rock Band sessions, this probably wouldn't have occurred.


----------



## Mblackwell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *saturation* /forum/post/16663204
> 
> 
> Plasma users will tell you that after the break-in period, the risk of burn-in is very low, most say its non-existent. So, if there are burn-in concerns to raise, its greatest during when your plasma TV is new.
> 
> 
> The viewing style mentioned puts the TV at risk for IR/BI, but again, the plasma users claim you can run the TV through, what Samsung models call, their screen burn in protection modes to prevent or remove residual images kept on the screen. You can also run the TV through a break in disk before you do any hard core gaming to prepare the TV better.
> 
> 
> I've posted elsewhere though, with some forum members getting irate, reiterating that plasma makers do not warrant their TVs against burn in. Likewise LCD don't against image retention. But know, IR is rare for LCD users so barely anyone complains about it on AVS, so not warranting it is moot; however the risk for burn-in in plasma is not moot, worse on some makers than others, but I think the risk is lowest with good brands like Panasonic, Samsung and less so, LG, who use the latest plasma technologies that with the cautions mentioned on how to prevent or fix it, it should not be an issue.



Actually the risk for Burn-In on a plasma nowadays IS moot unless you specifically _abuse_ the tv. You may get some Image Retention but it is temporary. That's why it's not covered. In fact, to get Burn-In on a Plasma you would have to do basically the exact same things that would give you Burn-In on a CRT, which also wouldn't be covered under warranty.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *_kirk_* /forum/post/16663590
> 
> 
> I got my 50" V10 about 3 weeks ago. I set the pixel orbiter to the most aggressive setting - once every minute. Other than that, I didn't do any further break-in procedures.
> 
> 
> Most of my usage so far has been gaming, mostly Rock Band 2. I've watched some baseball off my digital cable box (HD, full screen) and some full-screen BD (Planet Earth) and just a little bit of letter-boxed movies (DVD & BD). I hadn't noticed any IR, and thought I was fine. However this Sunday night, after being away for the weekend and the TV not having been used, I powered on the TV to watch a movie; I wasn't getting any signal (turns out the HDMI cable on the back of my PS3 was loose), *and in standing so close to the TV and having the screen on but no picture, I was in a position to notice that some IR has taken place - it's faint, the lights in the room have to be low and I have to be very close to the set to notice it,* but there is some ghosting from the static images in Rock Band (the power meter bar on the left side of the screen, & the bottom of the guitar fret at the bottom center of the screen. I've run the scrolling white bar feature several times since then, and while I think it's reduced the ghosting a bit, it's still there.
> 
> 
> I will be burning to DVD the break-in slideshow that is linked on these forums and running that for 100+ hours, as well as watching the rest of my Planet Earth BD's that I haven't yet seen and giving the Rock Band a rest for a while.
> 
> 
> I'll post back my results. Hopefully it's not too let in the set's life to remove the IR that's occurred and properly break-in the phosphors to avoid future IR. I will be vigilant about running the scrolling white bar after any gaming and any letterboxed movies for the near future though, just to be on the safe side.
> 
> 
> This is just a guess, but I suspect if I'd been aggressive about running the scrolling white bar feature after my 2-3 hour Rock Band sessions, this probably wouldn't have occurred.



If that's the only time you can see it, don't worry. It's normal. Perhaps there should be some kind of plasma rule where you shouldn't look at the screen at less than two feet or something.


----------



## JTeg86

Hey all, new guy here looking for some much needed help. I just recently ordered a Panasonic TC-P42G10 and being new to Plasma TV's Id like some insite on breaking one in. Is there a disc that comes with the tv to run through my DVD player to break in or can I download it and burn on a DVD to play? Can you run a regular DISH channel for burn-in? Also how long does the break-in last and do you have to leave your TV on and let run continuously for this period? Also...should you set your desired settings first BEFORE you run the breakin period or does it matter? Anything else I need to be aware of let me know, As I said Im absolutely new to plasmas!! Thanks


----------



## uncleholmes

I'm having a panasonic tc-p50s1 delivered tomorrow 6-18-09 TR. This is my first flat screen tv. I've never had hd before. So I'm real excited about this tv. I plan on breaking it in for the first 100 hours by making sure there's always a full screen, no game playing, cinema mode, and keeping the settings at 50 or below.


My question is after the first 100 hours, can I switch it to vivid mode and keep it there without having to worry about burn-in?


The salesman at Sears (even though I bought this at Best Buy) was showing me all the different modes and settings on the menu and he and I agreed that the vivid mode looked the best. He said he keeps his own panny tc-p50x1 on vivid all the time with contrast at 100 and has family members gaming on it 3 hours a day and never worries about burn-in.


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16668192
> 
> 
> I'm having a panasonic tc-p50s1 delivered tomorrow 6-18-09 TR. This is my first flat screen tv. I've never had hd before. So I'm real excited about this tv. I plan on breaking it in for the first 100 hours by making sure there's always a full screen, no game playing, cinema mode, and keeping the settings at 50 or below.
> 
> 
> My question is after the first 100 hours, can I switch it to vivid mode and keep it there without having to worry about burn-in?
> 
> 
> The salesman at Sears (even though I bought this at Best Buy) was showing me all the different modes and settings on the menu and he and I agreed that the vivid mode looked the best. He said he keeps his own panny tc-p50x1 on vivid all the time with contrast at 100 and has family members gaming on it 3 hours a day and never worries about burn-in.



To each his own, but Vivid mode is too blown out and saturated for my tastes. It probably looks the best in a bright environment like a showroom, but once you get it home I'd bet you'll end up preferring Custom mode with your own settings.


----------



## uncleholmes

You're probably right. Before I select the modes and settings, I think I better get more information for after the break-in period. Does anyone know if there's a thread where I can get info on the model# tc-p50s1 for settings and other stuff?


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16673306
> 
> 
> You're probably right. Before I select the modes and settings, I think I better get more information for after the break-in period. Does anyone know if there's a thread where I can get info on the model# tc-p50s1 for settings and other stuff?



Here you go:

Official S1 thread


----------



## rekki

I'm getting a panny tomorrow, and I haven't seen this question asked.


How long do people normally break in their TV per day? Is it okay to leave the break in dvd to run all night when I sleep? Do I have to worry about heat/etc when leaving the TV on for so long?


Thanks


----------



## uncleholmes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/15550695
> 
> 
> This is simply incorrect. There are a ton of people who game all the time on their plasmas with no ill-effects. I'm one of them. I don't know what the deal is with your particular set, but I have a 1 year old Panasonic that I game on all the time and have absolutely no burn in and never notice IR of HUDs, menus, etc. It simply does not happen on my set, and there's countless other folks here who have the same experience with theirs.
> 
> 
> jeff



That's good to hear. Just wondering, when you game do you put on game mode? What about contrast and brightness settings?


----------



## uncleholmes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/15515284
> 
> 
> Are you sure it's not the 46pz80u? The px series only has a 42" and a 50" model. The px series is 720p and the pz series is 1080p.
> 
> 
> If you read through this thread you will get plenty of information on break-in procedures. Personally, all I did to my two and a half year old Panasonic 42px60u and my three month old 50pz800u was to keep contrast and brightness at around 50% and not display black bars or static images for more than a couple of hours straight. I varied my programming and used the TVs pretty normally otherwise. After the first 100 hours I threw caution to the wind and never gave it another thought. Both these units have performed flawlessly, you will get a little IR but it goes away pretty quickly and is not visible during normal viewing. I have only seen it when looking for it on an all-black screen with a blank input.
> 
> 
> Enjoy your new TV and welcome to the forum.



Just wondering Buckeye, where do you keep your contrast, brightness and other settings now?


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16676450
> 
> 
> That's good to hear. Just wondering, when you game do you put on game mode? What about contrast and brightness settings?



FWIW, I have a V10 and have noticed some faint IR from playing Rock Band 2. I've had the pixel orbiter set to rotate once every minute (the most aggressive setting) from the moment I first got the TV. I have _not_ run break-in slides yet, and I hadn't been utilizing the scrolling white bar after gaming until now.


My suggestion would be to set the pixel orbiter to the fastest setting, and utilize any other anti-IR features, such as a scrolling white bar after any prolonged gaming use. I hadn't noticed the IR until recently, but that was because I wasn't looking carefully enough. When you first power on the TV, don't turn on any inputs so that the screen is black - stand close to the set and get the lights as low as you can and see if you can make out any IR from any kind of static images you might've had on your TV (gaming HUD's, station logos, letterboxing, etc).


As far as gaming modes, if you have a Panasonic you should be aware that the "Game" picture setting is nothing more than another picture setting with it's own color and black level settings - it's not any faster in response time (which is fine - the current Panasonics have very fast gaming response time) and it doesn't provide any additional IR protection.


----------



## JTeg86

What should be my settings for break-in if Im running the slides? Should I use the "Standard" preset and what should my settings be for Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, & Sharpness??


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16677247
> 
> 
> What should be my settings for break-in if Im running the slides? Should I use the "Standard" preset and what should my settings be for Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, & Sharpness??



I think the purpose of the break-in is to quickly age the phosphors, so I believe that the best setting for that procedure is actually Vivid with brightness & contrast pegged out at 100.


----------



## JTeg86




> Quote:
> I think the purpose of the break-in is to quickly age the phosphors, so I believe that the best setting for that procedure is actually Vivid with brightness & contrast pegged out at 100



I have heard you DO NOT want to use vivid when breaking in & to turn contrast & brightness to nothing more then 50. What about the sharpness, tint & color settings as well?


Any other insights??


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16677550
> 
> 
> I have heard you DO NOT want to use vivid when breaking in & to turn contrast & brightness to nothing more then 50. What about the sharpness, tint & color settings as well?
> 
> 
> Any other insights??



If you're watching the TV normally during the "break-in" phase, you should avoid Vivid mode and have your brightness & contrast at 50 or below (per Panasonic recommendations).

_However_, the break-in slides are a different matter - you are trying to age the phosphors with a series of full-screen vivid colors, so this process will be accelerated by putting the set in Vivid. For the current gen Panasonics, D-Nice recommends the Vivid setting with Contrast at 100, Brightness at 55, Color at 65 and Tint at 0 _for the break-in slides only._


So the distinction here is:

- When running the break-in slides, use the blown-out Vivid settings;

- When viewing normally during the break-in phase, use a different picture mode and keep the brightness & contrast at or below 50


That's my understanding anyway - if someone knows differently, I'm all ears...


----------



## uncleholmes

Got my panasonic tc-p50s1 delivered today. The picture is awesome. I'm doing the 100 hour or so break-in by just watching regular tv, making sure I change the channel if I see any black bars on the sides or top of the screen. I put the dvd movie "The Wrestler" on, only to find out it had the black bars on the screen, so I immediately ejected the movie. Don't want to take a chance during break-in. I'll watch "The Wrestler" on my other Panasonic tube tv.


I set the settings similar to the way Dave Katzmaier of c-net suggests after break-in, except I turned down the contrast and brightness. After the break-in I think I'll set it to the way Dave Katzmaier sets it.


Dave Katzmaier's suggested settings for tc-p50s1:

picture: cinema

contrast: +55

brightness: +63

color: + 32

tint: 0

sharpness: 0


My break-in settings

picture: cinema

contrast: +50

brightness: +50

color: +32

tint: 0

sharpness: 0


----------



## cakyol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burnbitten* /forum/post/12889858
> 
> 
> Hi everyone...new to the forum but a long time reader.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, as my screen name indicates, I did not read enough because I missed the 3 simple rules for plasma tv break-in;
> 
> 1 - Limit watching programs in 4:3
> 
> 2 - Set the side bars to grey for instances when you do watch 4:3 programming
> 
> 3 - Decrease the brightness/contrast settings
> 
> 
> The end result is that I have noticable screen burn-in during wide screen HD programming. I am really frustrated because this is a brand new (3 weeks old) Samsung FP-T5884 and I already have burn-in. So now...the questions;
> 
> 
> 1 - I have read quite a bit and there seems to be no 'solid' way of rectifying this. I have seen folks talk about running the screen wipe and white screen tools for hours at a time as well as an idea to produce a reverse image (white bars on the outside and black within) however, the latter seems risky regarding duration, alignment, etc. Has anyone had success with a particular method? I did see a product out there called JScreenFix - anyone have experience with it?
> 
> 
> 2 - In an effort to reduce the effect, is it best to change my side bars to grey for 4:3 viewing or use the stretch feature or will neither do the trick?
> 
> 
> 3 - As I am about 150 hours in, do I need to still reduce my contrast/brightness settings? If so, will this decrease my chances of making it fade by utilizing either of the methods above?
> 
> 
> 4 - Best Buy has a 30 day return policy. I realize that burn-in is not a warranty issue however, all of research beforehand spoke about how plasma technology has evolved and burn-in instances are minimal. If I simp,y tell Best Buy that I am not happy with it and want a replacement, will this fly?
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long post and questions however, I am really frustrated and can use some sound advice....



I was reading the forums to finally decide between plasma or LCD. As a person who does not have too much time tweaking things, I ask the question "is plasma picture so much better to warrant all these maintenance work". It sounds like I have to make everything perfect before & after I watch anything just so that the damn tv does not break..... After all, once burn in does occur, the final picture will be MUCH worse that the worst LCD screen...


Is it worth it ?


This is like buying a ferrari which I have to retune EVERY time I drive it rather than driving a Corvette. Is the perf difference really worth it ?


----------



## cakyol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bruin95* /forum/post/13443066
> 
> 
> After reading almost every post of this 4 page thread I'm really starting to wonder why anyone would buy a plasma. Seems like a MAJOR hassle. It seems like just about anything you watch on it can do harm to the set if you're not totally careful. I have a RP DLP now and wanted to get a plasma (mainly a Kuro or a Panny) by the end of the year. I watch alot of movies and still watch quite a bit of 4:3 programming. I can't stand to stretch it out. It looks like I'll be sticking with my RP. I have a 65" set now and want to stay at 60" or above, so LCD's are not an option. I can't see spending thousands on a set and having to constantly worry about letterboxing, scoreboards, station ID bugs, etc potentally ruining my investment. I just want to enjoy my set.



EXACTLY my sentiments. Plasma seems to have soooo many issues......


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cakyol* /forum/post/16684604
> 
> 
> EXACTLY my sentiments. Plasma seems to have soooo many issues......



Here's the deal - you _can_ introduce IR to your plasma, but there are simple steps to take to seriously reduce the chances of it happening, and if you notice it starting to happen, there are simple steps to rectify it.


Pretty much any decent plasma TV will have anti-IR features built into the set - use them. The pixel orbiter feature should be turned on, and I'd suggest setting it to the most aggressive setting - you won't notice the pixels shifting, and it's a good preventative feature. For 4:3 viewing, you should be able to set the black bars to a "light" setting. If you notice some IR after using your TV (you'll need to get close to the screen and look at it in very low light conditions to see if it's starting to happen) the set should have a scrolling white bar feature - run that for several minutes and the IR should disappear. If you have persistent IR that isn't going away and you're still in the early stages of using your TV, running the break-in images slideshow should eventually eliminate it.


It's widely believed that the phosphors in plasma sets are somewhat malleable in the first 100 or so hours of use, and after that they are fairly firmly "broken in", making them very resistant to IR, as well as actually improving the picture quality. This is why there is the suggestion of running break-in slides on the set that cycle through full-screen R/G/B colors and grey scales to age the set. Some people will run these immediately and not watch anything on their set until it's done - you can do that, but it's not a requirement by any means.


If you choose to enjoy your set after you buy it and not do the break-in (or do the break-in procedure in between using your set), just exercise a few restraints - try not to play games that have static images on screen for hours on end; be conscious about watching letterboxed movies or 4:3 TV channels/DVD's - watch them certainly, but you might not want to do marathon watching of several hours in a row. Use the scrolling white bar after any TV use that isn't full-screen moving images. Don't put your picture in "Vivid/torch" mode right out of the box, and keep the contrast and brightness around 50.


If you exercise these cautions, after the first 100 or so hours of use you should be able to fully enjoy your TV.


And yes, the picture quality difference is well worth any hassle in breaking it in.


----------



## JTeg86




> Quote:
> If you're watching the TV normally during the "break-in" phase, you should avoid Vivid mode and have your brightness & contrast at 50 or below (per Panasonic recommendations).
> 
> 
> However, the break-in slides are a different matter - you are trying to age the phosphors with a series of full-screen vivid colors, so this process will be accelerated by putting the set in Vivid. For the current gen Panasonics, D-Nice recommends the Vivid setting with Contrast at 100, Brightness at 55, Color at 65 and Tint at 0 for the break-in slides only.
> 
> 
> So the distinction here is:
> 
> - When running the break-in slides, use the blown-out Vivid settings;
> 
> - When viewing normally during the break-in phase, use a different picture mode and keep the brightness & contrast at or below 50
> 
> 
> That's my understanding anyway - if someone knows differently, I'm all ears...





That answers my question, Thanks










Although the other question I have I seen you metioned staying away from watching 4:3 w/ plasma. We currently have regular dish which I believe displays in 4:3 right? Also will we have the black bars on both sides of the screen, and what can we do to not experience image burn-in?


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16687066
> 
> 
> That answers my question, Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although the other question I have I seen you metioned staying away from watching 4:3 w/ plasma. We currently have regular dish which I believe displays in 4:3 right? Also will we have the black bars on both sides of the screen, and what can we do to not experience image burn-in?



I'm not sure that you have avoid watching 4:3 completely - if your TV can change the black bar settings for 4:3 viewing to "bright" or "light" or something similar, that should reduce risk of IR. I would think if you don't watch several hours in a row of 4:3 signals you'd be OK - just mix up your viewing some while the TV is still breaking in, and if you watch something with static images that are onscreen for a while (like 4:3 side bars) it's probably a good idea to use an anti-IR function like the scrolling white bars on the Panasonics (I would guess that Samsung has somethign similar).


Me personally, I'm not a big TV watcher other than sports. I mostly watch HD channels, so I only see 4:3 bars during commercials (and those are way too short to worry about).


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cakyol* /forum/post/16684522
> 
> 
> I was reading the forums to finally decide between plasma or LCD. As a person who does not have too much time tweaking things, I ask the question "is plasma picture so much better to warrant all these maintenance work". It sounds like I have to make everything perfect before & after I watch anything just so that the damn tv does not break..... After all, once burn in does occur, the final picture will be MUCH worse that the worst LCD screen...
> 
> 
> Is it worth it ?
> 
> 
> This is like buying a ferrari which I have to retune EVERY time I drive it rather than driving a Corvette. Is the perf difference really worth it ?



I think it it would be more like buying a BMW instead of a mini-van which would some how be more expensive. If you need to carry 7 people and have kids than you cannot get a BMW. Just like if you need to watch a ton of 4:3 television or use your TV as a computer monitor. Its not like buying some insane car that requires daily work. Its would be like buying a car that you cannot do specific things with. If you need to do those things you should buy another car.


If that is not worth the price/performance trade-off than you need to buy an LCD. If you are watching in a very bright room and/or watch a lot of 4:3 tv, or want to use a plasma as a computer monitor, than maybe you need to consider getting a LCD.


Plasmas can take abuse. It is just a few things that are over the top and cause problems.



I would take the trade-off of being careful in the first few hundred hours and not watching 4:3 in original aspect ratio rather than paying twice as much or getting a tv with motion blur and mediocre black levels. It will really not effect my viewing at all after the first few hundred hours.


----------



## uncleholmes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16687423
> 
> 
> I think it it would be more like buying a BMW instead of a mini-van which would some how be more expensive. If you need to carry 7 people and have kids than you cannot get a BMW. Just like if you need to watch a ton of 4:3 television or use your TV as a computer monitor. Its not like buying some insane car that requires daily work. Its would be like buying a car that you cannot do specific things with. If you need to do those things you should buy another car.
> 
> 
> If that is not worth the price/performance trade-off than you need to buy an LCD. If you are watching in a very bright room and/or watch a lot of 4:3 tv, or want to use a plasma as a computer monitor, than maybe you need to consider getting a LCD.
> 
> 
> Plasmas can take abuse. It is just a few things that are over the top and cause problems.
> 
> 
> 
> I would take the trade-off of being careful in the first few hundred hours and not watching 4:3 in original aspect ratio rather than paying twice as much or getting a tv with motion blur and mediocre black levels. It will really not effect my viewing at all after the first few hundred hours.



Is break-in the first 100 hours or the first few hundred hours?


----------



## greenjp

I find all the hand wringing about this to be pretty amusing. I got my set, a Panasonic PX5077U, a year and a half ago. Set the contrast below 50% for the first week and a half, then after that turned it up and haven't looked back. Never ran a break in DVD or slides. Yes, I have the side bars for 4:3 content set to gray in the set and on my DirecTV reciever, but beyond that I take no other special measures. I watch a lot of sports with scoreboards and tickers, play Xbox 360, and watch shows in 4:3 and movies in letterbox. The TV is fine. No burn in and perfect uniformity. I will see an outline of something occasionally but they're not very noticeable and none has ever persisted more than a minute or two before disappearing.


For the typical user the small risk of burn in or uneven wear is no reason to choose LCD, where you're dealing with the high probability of poor uniformity, flash lighting, banding, clouding, and off-angle picture quality degradation. There are other good reasons to go with LCD but IMO this isn't one of them.


jeff


----------



## jae3cpa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16687628
> 
> 
> Is break-in the first 100 hours or the first few hundred hours?



Where can I purchase a Break in disk? I have the Samsung 2500 Bluy ray player.


----------



## uncleholmes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jae3cpa* /forum/post/16687843
> 
> 
> Where can I purchase a Break in disk? I have the Samsung 2500 Bluy ray player.



Go to pg 1 of this thread and go to the very first post by williamr.


Click "download break" in dvd.


The first post on this pg is by evangelo2. On the very bottom of this post, click on "my homepage - download plasma break in dvd...


Click on "buy now". You can order it for $6.50.


----------



## silversport

do you know how long to get one???

Bill


----------



## uncleholmes

Much of my anxiety has just been relieved. I just now discovered that channels with the black bars can be removed by pushing the "format" button on the panasonic remote and choosing the options of full, just, h-fill, and zoom while the black bars are present on the channel. The bars can also be removed from dvd movies with these different modes. I did not know this and much of my worry about plasma was that I thought I would just have to deal with the black bars and hope I don't get burn-in.


I'm just assuming to leave it on "full" if there are no black bars?


If there's black bars during the full screen, the manual recommends "just" for normal viewing. Is "just" the way to go if the full screen has black bars?


Or is "h-fill" or "zoom" the way to go?


This is my very first hd tv so I'm very new at this.


----------



## uncleholmes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silversport* /forum/post/16688325
> 
> 
> do you know how long to get one???
> 
> Bill



Not sure. I would imagine you would get it within a week with standard shipping. Or you could go 1st or 2nd day air, but it could be a lot more expensive.


----------



## silversport

thanks...ordered mine last week but haven't gotten any confirmation or email it went through other than the paypal being accepted...thanks again,

Bill


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16688362
> 
> 
> Much of my anxiety has just been relieved. I just now discovered that channels with the black bars can be removed by pushing the "format" button on the panasonic remote and choosing the options of full, just, h-fill, and zoom while the black bars are present on the channel. The bars can also be removed from dvd movies with these different modes. I did not know this and much of my worry about plasma was that I thought I would just have to deal with the black bars and hope I don't get burn-in.
> 
> 
> I'm just assuming to leave it on "full" if there are no black bars?
> 
> 
> If there's black bars during the full screen, the manual recommends "just" for normal viewing. Is "just" the way to go if the full screen has black bars?
> 
> 
> Or is "h-fill" or "zoom" the way to go?
> 
> 
> This is my very first hd tv so I'm very new at this.



If you want to fill the screen during your first hundred hours or so, go for it - after that though, enjoy your TV and don't cheat yourself out of seeing the entire movie when watching content that is letterboxed.


----------



## Shizdan

I just got a new Samsung PN42B450 and Im very new to the Plasma TV's. When I run this Burn in DVD, Do I lower any of my settings? Right now I'm just using the default Movie Setting...


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /forum/post/16691003
> 
> 
> I just got a new Samsung PN42B450 and Im very new to the Plasma TV's. When I run this Burn in DVD, Do I lower any of my settings? Right now I'm just using the default Movie Setting...



Actually, when running the break in images you want to go with a Vivid or Torch setting (whatever is the most saturated & vivid) as this maximizes the breaking in of the display. THIS IS ONLY WHEN PLAYING THE BREAK-IN IMAGES.


If you also watch normal content during your break-in phase, you'll want to keep the picture toned down while watching anything other than the break-in images. I know with Panasonic, they suggest you keep your brightness & contrast settings at 50 or below for the first 100 or so hours of use.


After the set is broken in, use whatever settings you like the best; I'd guess there are probably some suggested settings in a Samsung thread related to your set...


----------



## silversport

arrived with today's mail (Break In Disc)...so about 6 days from payment, New York to Chicago...

Bill


----------



## Shizdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *_kirk_* /forum/post/16691095
> 
> 
> Actually, when running the break in images you want to go with a Vivid or Torch setting (whatever is the most saturated & vivid) as this maximizes the breaking in of the display. THIS IS ONLY WHEN PLAYING THE BREAK-IN IMAGES.
> 
> 
> If you also watch normal content during your break-in phase, you'll want to keep the picture toned down while watching anything other than the break-in images. I know with Panasonic, they suggest you keep your brightness & contrast settings at 50 or below for the first 100 or so hours of use.
> 
> 
> After the set is broken in, use whatever settings you like the best; I'd guess there are probably some suggested settings in a Samsung thread related to your set...



Like the setting with the Highest Brightness and Contrast? My settings are Dynamic, Standard and Movie


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /forum/post/16691102
> 
> 
> Like the setting with the Highest Brightness and Contrast? My settings are Dynamic, Standard and Movie



I would suspect Dynamic with the contrast and brightness turned up.


Don't quote me on this, as I'm not a Samsung expert - this is just based off of the suggested settings that have been posted for breaking in Panasonics. I'd suggest searching the Plasma forums for a thread on your model Samsung and see if there's more specific info for your TV...


----------



## Shizdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *_kirk_* /forum/post/16691121
> 
> 
> I would suspect Dynamic with the contrast and brightness turned up.
> 
> 
> Don't quote me on this, as I'm not a Samsung expert - this is just based off of the suggested settings that have been posted for breaking in Panasonics. I'd suggest searching the Plasma forums for a thread on your model Samsung and see if there's more specific info for your TV...



Ya I tried to but the only info states settings for optimal picture quality and when they mention break in, they only mention the amount of hours


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /forum/post/16691152
> 
> 
> Ya I tried to but the only info states settings for optimal picture quality and when they mention break in, they only mention the amount of hours



I'd guess that if you run these slides for 100 hours, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot what the picture settings are. But based off the theory of what the slides are supposed to do (age each phosphor evenly by running a spectrum of Red, Green, Blue and greyscale images), the process will probably be accelerated if you have the set in a very vivid picture mode with the pictures bright and saturated.


Again, that's just my guess based off of what I've read on these forums - there are certainly more experienced members here that should be able to give you the scoop. Is there a thread for your model? If so, you might ask in that thread what others have done to break in their sets...


----------



## Shizdan

Well Ill just run the Burn In DVD with my settings at contrast 50% and Brightness at 50% with dynamic contrast off. Thanks for you helpful info thanks. It was amazingly appreciated!


----------



## Ictusbrucks

I just got my Samsung P63 B590 plasma today.


Put in Iron Man BD, and I have thin horizontal black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. The other viewmodes either have 4:3 bars, or still have the top bars.


There is a Zoom 1 and Zoom 2 mode, but they are greyed out.


Anybody know how to unlock those on samsungs?


----------



## Idiotcanuck

Have I missed something in this theory?


If we can assume that real burn in is due to differential phosphor/pixel aging in a plasma, and that temporary image retention is caused by a different process entirely. Likely static/residual charges in the pixels themselves. Then the following should be true for current plasma displays:


Rated panel life =

100,000 hours to 50% brightness


50,000 hours to 75% brightness


25,000 hours to 87.5% brightness


12,500 hours to 93.75% brightness


6,250 hours to 96.87% brightness


My interpretation is that it would take approximately 260 days (6250/24hrs) of a static, unorbited, image on a black screen to achieve a 3% drop in the brightness for those pixels. If this is anywhere near correct, this would seem to make the idea of actual, permanent, burn in, highly unlikely, if not impossible, with any normal usage of a plasma display.


----------



## JTeg86

I got my Panasonic TC-P42G10 a few days ago and am now 10 hours into the break-in with SD card & slideshow. The question I have is...I went and set the settings according to what D-Nice recommended under picture settings for the G10's however I cannot change the 3D Y/C Filter because it is greyed out?? Why is this and does it matter to have it on or off during break in?


Also I noticed it appears that I have one dead or stuck pixel, is there any way to get it unstuck? It seems to not show on all the colors. And is it something I should be concerned about?


----------



## Idiotcanuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16709926
> 
> 
> I got my Panasonic TC-P42G10 a few days ago and am now 10 hours into the break-in with SD card & slideshow. The question I have is...I went and set the settings according to what D-Nice recommended under picture settings for the G10's however I cannot change the 3D Y/C Filter because it is greyed out?? Why is this and does it matter to have it on or off during break in?
> 
> 
> Also I noticed it appears that I have one dead or stuck pixel, is there any way to get it unstuck? It seems to not show on all the colors. And is it something I should be concerned about?



The comb filter is only used on certain inputs, I believe just the antenna and composites. So it's off by default when using other inputs.


Probably not, on the clearing of the dead pixel.

If it's not bothering you, and is not visible under most conditions, then ignore it. If you can't, you'll have to exchange the set before the return period expires, as this is not usually covered under the factory warranty, unless there are more of them, or they are in certain areas of the screeen.


----------



## jhnyrescue

I just bought the panny 50" G10 and I am using the slides to break it in when I go to bed and work. Then watch reqular HD programming when I am home. Can someone tell me how I check the TV for total hours watched?


----------



## ax gates




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhnyrescue* /forum/post/16711083
> 
> 
> I just bought the panny 50" G10 and I am using the slides to break it in when I go to bed and work. Then watch reqular HD programming when I am home. Can someone tell me how I check the TV for total hours watched?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...407154&page=46 


Read post #1 for your answer


----------



## jhnyrescue




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ax gates* /forum/post/16711409
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...407154&page=46
> 
> 
> Read post #1 for your answer



My bad I completley missed that.


P.S. thanks for not bashing me. I realize how annoying that is.


----------



## ax gates




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhnyrescue* /forum/post/16711679
> 
> 
> My bad I completley missed that.
> 
> 
> P.S. thanks for not bashing me. I realize how annoying that is.



Its all good man


----------



## Ms. Fjordstone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ictusbrucks* /forum/post/16530889
> 
> 
> Samsung's wiki page pointed me to these settings for break in:



Hi, Ictusbrucks,


I've read the FAQ & RULES LINKS_Plasma & Panasonic Plasma FAQ thread; I've searched the forum; I've read dozens and dozens of pages on Samsungs here...but I'm concerned that the break-in information to which people keep referring is several years old. The post to which you refer is from 2007. I'm at this moment awaiting delivery on a PN50B560, and I can't believe that the break-in information is the same for this model as it is for 2007 models!


I don't have a break-in DVD and don't think I'm going to get one; can anyone point me to definitive advice on how to break in a late-model (2009) Samsung plasma unit? I've given up on trying to find information specific to the PN50B560, because it's so new I can't even find reviews, much less technical advice! And Samsung's 2nd tier technical support only told me to vary up what I watch in the first 125 hours, and keep to the default settings. Oh, and if I'm watching a lot of standard (4:3) tv, to try to switch to widescreen things frequently or watch in stretch mode. Apparently, those black bars are a big concern during break-in. (I'll have to frequently switch to something widescreen, because I absolutely cannot _stand_ watching people and things stretched out of proportion!)


Thanks in advance...


(p.s., sorry I couldn't backquote the URL you pointed to; the forum tells me I can only post URLs after I've had at least 3 posts here, and I'm brand new.)


----------



## JTeg86

When Im running the break-in slides via the SD Card on Panasonic TC-P42G10 it doesnt seem the colors are noticably changing, I know the slides are going through for sure. I figured the gradients of colors would be a bit more distinguishable?? Just wandering if I have a setting off or is it supposed to be this way? The different shades of grey are really the only ones noticeable changing. On the main slidescreen page I cant really tell the differences between the reds, greens, & blues however when i pull the images up on the computer I can


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16712382
> 
> 
> When Im running the break-in slides via the SD Card on Panasonic TC-P42G10 it doesnt seem the colors are noticably changing, I know the slides are going through for sure. I figured the gradients of colors would be a bit more distinguishable?? Just wandering if I have a setting off or is it supposed to be this way? The different shades of grey are really the only ones noticeable changing. On the main slidescreen page I cant really tell the differences between the reds, greens, & blues however when i pull the images up on the computer I can



Can you notice the difference between the slides when you put your TV on normal settings? (not the break in settings)


----------



## Ms. Fjordstone

Okay, I caved in and downloaded and burned Evangelos's break-in DVD, after reading a lot of good comments about it here. Thanks, all!


----------



## JTeg86




> Quote:
> Can you notice the difference between the slides when you put your TV on normal settings? (not the break in settings)




I have not tried that yet, however I did try a different SD Card and reloaded the files onto it and it still looks the same. (which I didnt figure it would be any different) Some of the gradients are noticeable IF you look real close. Im thinking its just the contrast & sharpness being so high that you dont notice the gradients so much.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTeg86* /forum/post/16719568
> 
> 
> I have not tried that yet, however I did try a different SD Card and reloaded the files onto it and it still looks the same. (which I didnt figure it would be any different) Some of the gradients are noticeable IF you look real close. Im thinking its just the contrast & sharpness being so high that you dont notice the gradients so much.





The 'break-in' settings probably prevent you from seeing the differences. Wouldn't it take you less than a minute to find that out?


----------



## ljnelson

Hello. I am the proud owner of a new Pioneer 6020FD. I am going to break it in with Evangelo's USB-friendly pack of images on a thumb drive. My question here is: is it as simple as plugging it in and selecting slide show? If I can control the speed (haven't looked yet), is there some rate I should be cycling through the images at? Anything else other than put the stick in the slot and loop it? :-D


My other question is: I need to also set up my new Marantz SR6003, which annoyingly puts its GUI up in full screen blue with white letters. I presume that in the maybe hour or so of fumbling with this I won't cause burn-in of any of the persistent GUI artifacts.


Thanks,

Laird


----------



## r1jamn

This is great info.

I just bought a pro-111fd (manufacturing date: April 2009) and will start breaking it in.


----------



## richpat

I am breaking in a Pio 141FD. At about the 125 hour mark, I need to leave town for the weekend.


I would assume that picking up where I left off two days later would not make a difference. Is this correct?


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richpat* /forum/post/16792345
> 
> 
> I am breaking in a Pio 141FD. At about the 125 hour mark, I need to leave town for the weekend.
> 
> 
> I would assume that picking up where I left off two days later would not make a difference. Is this correct?



141 have been pre-aged at the factory, no need to break-in the panel.


----------



## richpat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/16792847
> 
> 
> 141 have been pre-aged at the factory, no need to break-in the panel.



Hmmmm...then why would D-Nice have break-in settings for the 141?


----------



## thaMOB

i recently bought a panasonic tc-p50v10 and have had it for about a week now. Based on the advice from the forums, I have been watching tv at standard mode, and I brought down all the settings to 45.


I just burned Evangelos DVD and figured I would run it as much as I can in between tv watching here and there and try to do half DVD/half regular tv watching under 50 for the first 100-120 hours. Seems like this is a somewhat decent way to break in the tv, any thoughts?


I burned the DVD and ran it on my dvd player and I am seeing black bars on the top and bottom. Is this normal? I was under the assumption the colors that scroll thru the DVD would take up the whole screen. Apologize if this is a noob question but how do I get rid of those black bars on the top and bottom?


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thaMOB* /forum/post/16803669
> 
> 
> I burned the DVD and ran it on my dvd player and I am seeing black bars on the top and bottom. Is this normal? I was under the assumption the colors that scroll thru the DVD would take up the whole screen. Apologize if this is a noob question but how do I get rid of those black bars on the top and bottom?



Try adjusting the picture to a "fill" mode (sorry, don't have my manual in front of me) so that the picture fills the screen.


----------



## TheAnswer_03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *_kirk_* /forum/post/16803952
> 
> 
> Try adjusting the picture to a "fill" mode (sorry, don't have my manual in front of me) so that the picture fills the screen.



Are you finished the break-in period yet? And are you still getting signs of image retention? If the pixel orbiter is not noticeable at all, wouldn't it make sense to always have it set to 1 or have Panasonic make it the only option?


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAnswer_03* /forum/post/16805208
> 
> 
> Are you finished the break-in period yet? And are you still getting signs of image retention? If the pixel orbiter is not noticeable at all, wouldn't it make sense to always have it set to 1 or have Panasonic make it the only option?



No lasting IR problems. If I see any sign of IR now I just run the scrolling white bar, and if that doesn't wipe it away I run the slides for a few hours and everything is good.


But I've read enough since I noticed the IR I had to not feel too concerned about it anymore.


----------



## aznkid4now

How should i properly break in my p50g10? I havent broken it in yet coulld anything be wrong


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aznkid4now* /forum/post/16807774
> 
> 
> How should i properly break in my p50g10? I havent broken it in yet coulld anything be wrong




read thread. first post or first page of posts may not be to specific as to how/why, so you'll have to do some reading.


----------



## Edward M

Am I doing something wrong? I buy a 50V10 and get through about 50 hours of break in slides and notice I have one pixel which began hanging on the color red.


So I return it and for the reason I wanted a 54V10. I'm about 50 hours through the break in slides and notice one pixel that appears to hang some on red buy only from an angle. If I look directly 90 degrees to it I guess it looks fine. Then I notice others which when viewed from an extreme angle and up close look the same color red. I'm starting to think it's not dead, just out of misalignment.


The break in slides are great but now I start noticing these things. I'll feel like a fool returning another one. And the third one will probably have a similar issue I'm sure. If I just used regular content for break in I probably would have never noticed this.


Any opinions would be appreciated.


Ed


----------



## DJ Dumps

My parents purchased a Samsung 58B550 plasma a couple days ago. I just got here and will be helping them break-in the tube. I do have one issue. My father watches a financial program pretty much the whole day. As you may know, these networks have lots of static images (such as tickers and sidebars). Is there anyway to avoid IR and burn-in given this viewing behavior? I will do my best to break the tv overnight, but I already noticed IR after one day of his viewing habit. The scrolling bars quickly got rid of this IR, but I am worried burn in will be a BIG issue in the future.


Should I advise my parents to return this TV and go for something that is more burn-in resistance?


----------



## therealjoeblow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DJ Dumps* /forum/post/16825769
> 
> 
> My parents purchased a Samsung 58B550 plasma a couple days ago. I just got here and will be helping them break-in the tube. I do have one issue. My father watches a financial program pretty much the whole day. As you may know, these networks have lots of static images (such as tickers and sidebars). Is there anyway to avoid IR and burn-in given this viewing behavior? I will do my best to break the tv overnight, but I already noticed IR after one day of his viewing habit. The scrolling bars quickly got rid of this IR, but I am worried burn in will be a BIG issue in the future.
> 
> 
> Should I advise my parents to return this TV and go for something that is more burn-in resistance?



I'm a huge fan of the picture quality of plasma, and have a Panasonic 800u, bit I've got to say all the marketing and denial on the potential for burn-in is just crap.


For the first 3 months I had the TV (Jan-March), I used a regular Pioneer DVD and watched only DVD Movies always zoomed to full 16:9 (no TV and no black-bars whatsoever ), running the break-in discs for days in between. After 3 to 4 months I had way more than the recommended 200 hours on it.


Then I built myself a HTPC running WinXP to watch BluRays.


Being ever so paranoid, I made sure that the screen background was set to a neutral color (no desktop wallpaper), I turned off the display of all of the icons on the desktop, and set a black-screen screensaver to come on after 1 minute. I used it that way with ZoomPlayer with a minimalist skin (ie, nothing is displayed on the screen except for the movie, no control bars or menus etc) for the next 2 months (May to partway into June).


So that's it, the computer boots up, and *only* occasionally displays the Windows interface for a few minutes at a time, like when I'm doing maintenance or looking briefly for a file. The computer is NOT used as a regular workhorse or internet browser because I know plasmas are not recommended as computer monitors.


I never really noticed anything in movies, but the other day, I displayed a 80% grey background full screen for no particular reason, and "what the hell!" I thought, I saw a ghost of the 'START' menu and all of my system tray mini-icons as clear as if they were actually being displayed.


I panicked and (after changing skins from the default blue and green WinXP one to a black one that emulates Win7, installing a utility to dim and make the taskbar transparent and moving the taskbar to another side of the screen) I ran the whitewash over and over for the next week, but after a week, it was still just about as pronounced as when I noticed it.


So now for the past 2 or 3 weeks, I've been running break-in discs again and the 'pixel-protector' burn-in repair disc for hours on end, and it's getting a little better, but not much. It's still very noticeable on a 80% grey background. Furtunately I don't notice it watching movies. But if I look for it in a bright scene, it's definitely there!


So that's only after 2 or so months of using the Windows interface fairly infrequently.


I can't imagine the damage that a constant stock-ticker will do over the course of time if used frequently.


Anyone who says that burn-in on plasma is a thing of the past isn't giving the straight goods. It's probably better than it used to be, but it's still a real issue nonetheless under certain (albeit very common) circumstances.


If all you watch is full 16:9 movies, you will be good to go with no burn-in issues ever. But if you use anything for any length of time with static images, based on my own experience, you are going to burn that into the screen, guaranteed. And the longer you let it go, the more permanent it's going to get. Again, based on my experience, this can happen very quickly, and be very difficult to get rid of.


My own personal opinion is that LCD would be better if you are primarily going to watch TV. Plasma is better for movie-only use, and use extreme caution with your player's user interface.


Cheers,

The REAL Joe


----------



## saturation

Any chance you can post a picture of the 'burn in' image?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *therealjoeblow* /forum/post/16836453
> 
> I'm a huge fan of the picture quality of plasma, and have a Panasonic 800u, bit I've got to say all the marketing and denial on the potential for burn-in is just crap. For the first 3 months I had the TV (Jan-March), I used a regular Pioneer DVD and watched only DVD Movies always zoomed to full 16:9 (no TV and no black-bars whatsoever ), running the break-in discs for days in between. After 3 to 4 months I had way more than the recommended 200 hours on it.
> 
> 
> Then I built myself a HTPC running WinXP to watch BluRays.
> 
> 
> Being ever so paranoid, I made sure that the screen background was set to a neutral color (no desktop wallpaper), I turned off the display of all of the icons on the desktop, and set a black-screen screensaver to come on after 1 minute. I used it that way with ZoomPlayer with a minimalist skin (ie, nothing is displayed on the screen except for the movie, no control bars or menus etc) for the next 2 months (May to partway into June).
> 
> 
> So that's it, the computer boots up, and *only* occasionally displays the Windows interface for a few minutes at a time, like when I'm doing maintenance or looking briefly for a file. The computer is NOT used as a regular workhorse or internet browser because I know plasmas are not recommended as computer monitors.
> 
> 
> I never really noticed anything in movies, but the other day, I displayed a 80% grey background full screen for no particular reason, and "what the hell!" I thought, I saw a ghost of the 'START' menu and all of my system tray mini-icons as clear as if they were actually being displayed.
> 
> 
> I panicked and (after changing skins from the default blue and green WinXP one to a black one that emulates Win7, installing a utility to dim and make the taskbar transparent and moving the taskbar to another side of the screen) I ran the whitewash over and over for the next week, but after a week, it was still just about as pronounced as when I noticed it.
> 
> 
> So now for the past 2 or 3 weeks, I've been running break-in discs again and the 'pixel-protector' burn-in repair disc for hours on end, and it's getting a little better, but not much. It's still very noticeable on a 80% grey background. Furtunately I don't notice it watching movies. But if I look for it in a bright scene, it's definitely there!
> 
> 
> So that's only after 2 or so months of using the Windows interface fairly infrequently.
> 
> 
> I can't imagine the damage that a constant stock-ticker will do over the course of time if used frequently.
> 
> 
> Anyone who says that burn-in on plasma is a thing of the past isn't giving the straight goods. It's probably better than it used to be, but it's still a real issue nonetheless under certain (albeit very common) circumstances.
> 
> 
> If all you watch is full 16:9 movies, you will be good to go with no burn-in issues ever. But if you use anything for any length of time with static images, based on my own experience, you are going to burn that into the screen, guaranteed. And the longer you let it go, the more permanent it's going to get. Again, based on my experience, this can happen very quickly, and be very difficult to get rid of.
> 
> 
> My own personal opinion is that LCD would be better if you are primarily going to watch TV. Plasma is better for movie-only use, and use extreme caution with your player's user interface.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> The REAL Joe


----------



## x cmon3y x

I have dark outlines of were HUD's have been displayed (only visible on a no input screen) not for too long, the TV is a Panasonic TC-X142" what worries me is I have run the scrolling bar for 3 hours + watched HD content for another 4-5 and the outlines dont seem to be fading


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *x cmon3y x* /forum/post/16838617
> 
> 
> I have dark outlines of were HUD's have been displayed (only visible on a no input screen) not for too long, the TV is a Panasonic TC-X142" what worries me is I have run the scrolling bar for 3 hours + watched HD content for another 4-5 and the outlines dont seem to be fading



how long did you play the game? did you play it right when the set was new? what were the settings like?


----------



## whiteboy714

If you only see it on a no input screen no. Do some searching this is asked about daily.


----------



## x cmon3y x




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16838679
> 
> 
> how long did you play the game? did you play it right when the set was new? what were the settings like?



fairly new around 100 hours by now, the games that left the dark outlines I played for no more then 3 hours at a time, i have all my pic settings below 40 and pixel orbiter on 1 minute


----------



## GlenH

So you've been gaming for up to 3 hrs at a time while your brand new TV has less than 100 hours on it? That's not a very good idea.


I'd stop gaming for a while and mix up the content you're watching. Plasmas go through the highest drop off in brightness when brand new. This is when the TV is most susceptible to burn-in (actually uneven phosphor wear). After say about 200-500 hours, your TV would be much less likely to sustain burn-in.


I'd try to get rid of the HUD outline by running a break-in DVD or something similar for a couple of days.


----------



## AroundTheTV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GlenH* /forum/post/16839383
> 
> 
> So you've been gaming for up to 3 hrs at a time while your brand new TV has less than 100 hours on it? That's not a very good idea.
> 
> 
> I'd stop gaming for a while and mix up the content you're watching. Plasmas go through the highest drop off in brightness when brand new. This is when the TV is most susceptible to burn-in (actually uneven phosphor wear). After say about 200-500 hours, your TV would be much less likely to sustain burn-in.
> 
> 
> I'd try to get rid of the HUD outline by running a break-in DVD or something similar for a couple of days.



Yikes, this thread has me a little concerned.


----------



## pclement

I have a Panasonic TC-P42G10 and the break-in file on SD. I assume that all I need to do is be sure that the settings are less than 50 and run the SD card for a 100 hours to break in the set. Is it that simple?


----------



## x cmon3y x




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GlenH* /forum/post/16839383
> 
> 
> So you've been gaming for up to 3 hrs at a time while your brand new TV has less than 100 hours on it? That's not a very good idea.
> 
> 
> I'd stop gaming for a while and mix up the content you're watching. Plasmas go through the highest drop off in brightness when brand new. This is when the TV is most susceptible to burn-in (actually uneven phosphor wear). After say about 200-500 hours, your TV would be much less likely to sustain burn-in.
> 
> 
> I'd try to get rid of the HUD outline by running a break-in DVD or something similar for a couple of days.



well its gone now, but by now i have over 100 hours on the tv, how many more should i put on it before i use it like i want to


----------



## DJ Lushious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *x cmon3y x* /forum/post/16842690
> 
> 
> well its gone now, but by now i have over 100 hours on the tv, how many more should i put on it before i use it like i want to



This is an excellent question and one I am interested in hearing. My newly acquired Pioneer Pro-111FD is at 66 hours of break-in, and though D-Nice recommends 150 hours, I'm interested on what the general consensus is here.


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *x cmon3y x* /forum/post/16842690
> 
> 
> well its gone now, but by now i have over 100 hours on the tv, how many more should i put on it before i use it like i want to



Most would say 200 - 300 hours before any heavy gaming. I was much more cautious, but when I buy my next plasma I will start using it for gaming then.


As for the IR outlines taking a long time to clear off the plasma, I wouldn't be too concerned unless you can actually see the HUD when watching something other than a blank input. On my Panasonic 800U I can get IR that takes 10 - 12 hours to clear by watching normal programming, but the key is that it always clears and is not visible except on the blank input.


I used to be very paranoid about any IR on my 800U (read some of my early posts from last year to see just how paranoid I was), but I no longer worry about it and will usually play one game for 2 or 3 hours stretches (often Rock Band or Guitar Hero). I always have IR of the HUDs on a blank screen when I'm done playing, but I've never seen them when I'm watching a movie or playing another game. I should note that I do run the scrolling bar wipe once (so about 15 minutes) when I'm done watching my plasma for the day if I've played a single game for a long period at a time. By following these simple guidelines, the IR I had of the HUDs on the blank input is gone the next time I'm ready to play that same game (usually in a day or two).


Just mix up your viewing, keep the picture settings out of torch mode, and set the pixel orbiter to force 1 (or equivalent) and you shouldn't have any problems. Enjoy your plasma!


----------



## pookguy88

this might be a stupid question but is it ok to use Evangelo2's burn-in DVD on a 1080 set even though the dvd is in 720?


so all i have to do is loop it for 200hrs?


I've got an LG 60PS11, any settings I should use?? thanks!


----------



## _kirk_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pookguy88* /forum/post/16855168
> 
> 
> this might be a stupid question but is it ok to use Evangelo2's burn-in DVD on a 1080 set even though the dvd is in 720?
> 
> 
> so all i have to do is loop it for 200hrs?
> 
> 
> I've got an LG 60PS11, any settings I should use?? thanks!



Just make sure the slides are filling the screen.


----------



## pclement




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pclement* /forum/post/16841732
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic TC-P42G10 and the break-in file on SD. I assume that all I need to do is be sure that the settings are less than 50 and run the SD card for a 100 hours to break in the set. Is it that simple?



I ran the SD for about 50 hours using the settings from D-nice. It really is very simple. Download and save the SD images, put the SD card in the TV, set the picture and run the images. I have another 20 hours of so of TV / DVD viewing (Full screen) and will soon have the 100 -150 hours of break in time. Very pleased so far.


----------



## Mitmonk

Posted this in the PNxB650 thread and wanted to post here too:


Hey everyone! Just got a new PN650 and have a question regarding the break in period for the tv. I had a PNA550 (which was exchanged for this year's model due to pink banding) and broke it in by simply watching full screen movies/tv shows and playing video games without any static images (uncharted, deadspace, etc.). Is there any advantage to using a break in dvd or does watching full screen programing serve the same purpose? Is it really necessary to the turn the contrast so low (~50) if absolutely no static images are on the screen? I thought I had my contrast around 70 or higher when breaking in my older model, but don't really remember. I wanted to do the same with this model but am feeling somewhat paranoid, although I haven't had any bad expericences with burn in or image retention. Is the break in period an effort to simply avoid burn in during the first one hundred hours, when it's most common, or does it serve an additional purpose such as properly aging the set?

Basically, will I harm this set in any way by watching movies/tv and playing games without static images at a contrast around 70 during the first 100 to 250 hours, and is there any benefit of using dvd break in disc compared to the previous method? Thanks for the help!


----------



## mbyers24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncleholmes* /forum/post/16668192
> 
> 
> I'm having a panasonic tc-p50s1 delivered tomorrow 6-18-09 TR. This is my first flat screen tv. I've never had hd before. So I'm real excited about this tv. I plan on breaking it in for the first 100 hours by making sure there's always a full screen, no game playing, cinema mode, and keeping the settings at 50 or below.
> 
> 
> My question is after the first 100 hours, can I switch it to vivid mode and keep it there without having to worry about burn-in?
> 
> *The salesman at Sears (even though I bought this at Best Buy) was showing me all the different modes and settings on the menu and he and I agreed that the vivid mode looked the best. He said he keeps his own panny tc-p50x1 on vivid all the time with contrast at 100 and has family members gaming on it 3 hours a day and never worries about burn-in.*



I hope this was a joke?


----------



## DeathCom

I think I might have a burn issue, either developing or already set...


I got my Samsung PN50A550 last January. I did everything by the book, set the contrast to 40 for the first 100 hours, varied my programming, avoided long gaming sessions. After about 200 hours I started to game more regularly on the panel and upped the settings to have it look good (contrast around 75, DC off). Now that Im just over 1000 hours and according to the game clock, have logged roughly 160 hours of Soul Calibur IV, Im starting to notice persistent image echo of the HP bar frame at the top. (not that the 160 gameplay hours were mixed in with about 800 hours of TV and movies and maybe 100 hours of other games)


I stopped playing all together and ran the image burn tools and got rid of the problem. However, it seems to return more frequently with even less game time spent. I have since made a low burn mode for gameplay, lowering cell light to 2, contrast to 40. It looks bad, but it only seems to help a little. After a two hour session, there is still some IR that can last for days of normal TV viewing.


I don't think the damage is permanent (yet), but I think Ive built up enough cumulative damage that this particular game can no longer be played. Problem is, Im a picky ass gamer and SCIV is all I still play these days. So I wonder, is there any way to reverse this? Could I make a negative image of the static parts of the game display and then reverse-burn the TV?


Game developers need to make multiple skins for HUDs so we plasma gamers can mix things up.


----------



## craftech

To those concerned about the IR problem I have found that the fastest solution (on my Panasonic X1) is to simply insert the SD card with the break in slides and let it run for a few minutes. Clears it right away.


John


----------



## flycaster

What size SD card do I need to use to copy Evangelo2's burn-in?


EDIT: OK, I found a SD card and transferred the 20 images onto it; so, I guess I don't need to know what size card. Actually, it was 32M card. Anyway, I'll be using the card in a Panny 50v10 and I'm assuming that all I have to do is stick the card in its slot and have it play repetively...or is there something special I should ahve to do?


----------



## Sintel-sama

Had my mind set on buying the panny TX-P42V10 for the excellent reviews, and even have it on order, no payment yet. But after all this talk and this page:
http://plasmasaver.com/burnin.html I'm having last-minute buyer anxiety










The reason is, it dawned on me that all the stuff I'll do on it either isn't full screen or is static

*Almost all HD movies I have are 2.35:1

*Have some anime that's mostly 4:3

*TV is most of the time still 4:3, and I don't like stretched look.

*I want to do some PC gaming on it, but leaving it on the desktop is a bad idea, while games like GRID have static huds


"Burn-In: NOT the same as IR. Permanent. Increasingly harder to produce as Plasma technology improves. Not really a concern unless you really abuse the set." --> sounds like my usage scenario falls under "abuse".


And running a set of images every time you use it sounds like a real chore, also since I'm at least a bit conscious about the environment. I could live with a break-in period, but not doing this for the entire time I own the screen. Posts like the one from DeathCom don't inspire much confidence in that regard.


Am I the wrong kind of user to go for plasma?


----------



## AroundTheTV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sintel-sama* /forum/post/16924995
> 
> 
> = I could live with a break-in period, but not doing this for the entire time I own the screen. Posts like the one from DeathCom don't inspire much confidence in that regard.
> 
> 
> Am I the wrong kind of user to go for plasma?



I'm starting to agree with you. I'm on hour 25 of breaking in my TV and while it's not too horrible I think it's ridiculous that I'm going to have to "monitor" what I watch in the future. I'm thinking I made a huge purchase mistake. I'd rather live with a little bit of judder and poor off angle viewing (LCD) rather than policing my TV time with the plasma.


----------



## greenjp

I make a post like this every couple of months just to add some perspective to all the worrying:


I bought my Panasonic 50PX77U in January 2008. It's a 2007 model. I broke it in by setting the contrast at 50% for the first week and a half or so, setting sidebars to gray on both the set and my DirecTV box, and zooming the couple movies we watched to get rid of the letter bars. Never did the slide show, though I did a few times let it run for several hours on HD Theater. I played Call of Duty 4 the first day I had it, couldn't resist.










After that week and a half I turned the contrast up, found settings I liked (starting with the CNet review settings) and have left it that way since. My usage is probably 40% Xbox 360, 50% TV (lots of sports, a few series), and 10% movies. This set has no special anti-burn in features - no scrolling bar, no pixel orbiter, nothing like that.


It has no burn in or anything else worth worrying about. The screen uniformity is perfect (go read the Samsung edge lit LED thread for some horror stories on that). I do not worry or obsess about how I use the TV - I just use it. Yes sometimes after a long gaming session I'll have a little IR from a HUD or something. But it always goes away very quickly upon switching to another game/show.


So for the minimal precautions I take (gray side bars, setting the auto-off timer, 1.5 weeks of "break in") I've been able to enjoy a larger, less expensive TV with superior picture quality to an LCD. Fair trade in my book










jeff


----------



## Sidetracked

Hi all,


Finally taking the plunge and getting a Pio 151 delivered Tuesday







(I've been on a Sony 40XBR800 CRT for years - still love it).


I was wondering, re D-Nice's burn in images, does that have to be 150 hours without a break? I'm nervous leaving it going at night, or when I'm out for long hours, etc. in case there's some kind of freeze up. I'd imagine that could actually cause damage.


Any thoughts?


Also, I can see reading through here that the whole idea of break in is still controversial. There's no way I'll have time to read this whole thread (and the Kuro thread!) before Tuesday. Is there any sort of consensus re break in? 50-50 for doing the images? 80-20 one way or the other?


Thanks for any advice for an excited but nervous new owner.


----------



## aydu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sintel-sama* /forum/post/16924995
> 
> 
> Had my mind set on buying the panny TX-P42V10 for the excellent reviews, and even have it on order, no payment yet. But after all this talk and this page:
> http://plasmasaver.com/burnin.html I'm having last-minute buyer anxiety
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason is, it dawned on me that all the stuff I'll do on it either isn't full screen or is static
> 
> *Almost all HD movies I have are 2.35:1
> 
> *Have some anime that's mostly 4:3
> 
> *TV is most of the time still 4:3, and I don't like stretched look.
> 
> *I want to do some PC gaming on it, but leaving it on the desktop is a bad idea, while games like GRID have static huds
> 
> 
> "Burn-In: NOT the same as IR. Permanent. Increasingly harder to produce as Plasma technology improves. Not really a concern unless you really abuse the set." --> sounds like my usage scenario falls under "abuse".
> 
> 
> And running a set of images every time you use it sounds like a real chore, also since I'm at least a bit conscious about the environment. I could live with a break-in period, but not doing this for the entire time I own the screen. Posts like the one from DeathCom don't inspire much confidence in that regard.
> 
> 
> Am I the wrong kind of user to go for plasma?



Well, you figured out that your uses are a less than ideal match for plasma technology. You are obviously worried about the issue. The question is whether you will continue to fret about this after you get your set, and ruin the enjoyment the set is supposed to provide.


Having said that, Panasonic is a pretty good plasma choice, if your concern is IR, burn-in.


----------



## DJ Lushious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sidetracked* /forum/post/16930194
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Finally taking the plunge and getting a Pio 151 delivered Tuesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I've been on a Sony 40XBR800 CRT for years - still love it).
> 
> 
> I was wondering, re D-Nice's burn in images, does that have to be 150 hours without a break? I'm nervous leaving it going at night, or when I'm out for long hours, etc. in case there's some kind of freeze up. I'd imagine that could actually cause damage.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Also, I can see reading through here that the whole idea of break in is still controversial. There's no way I'll have time to read this whole thread (and the Kuro thread!) before Tuesday. Is there any sort of consensus re break in? 50-50 for doing the images? 80-20 one way or the other?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any advice for an excited but nervous new owner.



I ran the 150 hours break-in procedure straight on my Pro-111FD. I advise using a USB flashdrive for this purpose. The only reason there'd be failure during this would be the TV and not, say, a DVD player (extra variable).


As for the break-in procedure, I was able to supress my impatience and run 100% of the break-in slides for the first 150 hours. My take on this is, if you spend that kind of money on a new TV, you may as well do everything right in terms of its performance.


----------



## rajdawg

I am very new to the plasma world since I just purchased my first flat panel on sunday. I got the panny tc-p42u1 and have been very pleased with it. I started running the break in slides from an sd card this morning while I am at work. Right now I still have the contrast and brightness level set to 40. Should I change the setting to vivid while the break in images are running? Also, can anyone point me to some good calibration settings once the 150 hour mark is reached.


----------



## joebloggs13

I thought I would post my experiences here as well. I am a proud owner of the 'dreaded' 400 series plasmas from samsung(pn50a400) since last December. I performed a longer breakin period(I think aroud 300hrs), in which I didn't game for long periods etc... Now I dont even think about it. I dont even know if I get any IR after gaming sessions because I dont check for it anymore. I certainly cant see any watching regular programing after playing, and I honestly cant be bothered to put the scrolling function on and stand 5 inches away to check for IR. It's just a great set, no two ways about it, and I love it!!







JoeB


----------



## J*I*M

I have had the Panny P50V10 for approx 3 weeks ( I would guess 120 TV hours) and did not perfom any type of break in, I have watched SD television, HD television (mostly sports and movies) and BD movies but absolutley no gaming. I have notice no burn in or image retention what so ever. Should I continue to operate the TV normally or so should I start some type of break in period?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## gaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DJ Lushious* /forum/post/16934085
> 
> 
> I ran the 150 hours break-in procedure straight on my Pro-111FD. I advise using a USB flashdrive for this purpose. The only reason there'd be failure during this would be the TV and not, say, a DVD player (extra variable).
> 
> 
> As for the break-in procedure, I was able to supress my impatience and run 100% of the break-in slides for the first 150 hours. My take on this is, if you spend that kind of money on a new TV, you may as well do everything right in terms of its performance.



I am using D-Nice's break in DVD disk on my new PDP 151FD. Why do you recommend the flash drive over the DVD? Can you down load D-Nice's program onto a flash drive? If not, where could I go to find such a program?


----------



## DJ Lushious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gaz* /forum/post/16944781
> 
> 
> I am using D-Nice's break in DVD disk on my new PDP 151FD. Why do you recommend the flash drive over the DVD? Can you down load D-Nice's program onto a flash drive? If not, where could I go to find such a program?



I recommend the flash drive, as you're not introducing a variable with moving parts (the DVD player). With the flash drive I only had to worry about whether or not the TV messed up during these 150 hours. Whereas with the DVD, I would have had to worry about the TV and the DVD player messing up.










As for the flash drive files, they are located here . Just download the ZIP file and unzip the images to your flash drive. You're going to want to use 30 second intervals in HMG and just have it run a slideshow on them all.


Really, though, the DVD or the flash drive results in the same ending. If the DVD is working fine for you, then no reason to stop. I just went for the flash drive method for the above.


----------



## nnarum23

I've been using my Panny like I would normally, but for 2-3 hours a day I run the break in disc... No IR at all so far. And that includes heavy use of ESPN and some Xbox gaming...


I would say about 75 hours in on the break in... I'm going to go for 150 to be safe.


----------



## Farland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mitmonk* /forum/post/16872238
> 
> 
> Is there any advantage to using a break in dvd or does watching full screen programing serve the same purpose?



It serves the same purpose.



> Quote:
> Is it really necessary to the turn the contrast so low (~50) if absolutely no static images are on the screen? I thought I had my contrast around 70 or higher when breaking in my older model, but don't really remember. I wanted to do the same with this model but am feeling somewhat paranoid, although I haven't had any bad expericences with burn in or image retention. Is the break in period an effort to simply avoid burn in during the first one hundred hours, when it's most common, or does it serve an additional purpose such as properly aging the set?
> 
> Basically, will I harm this set in any way by watching movies/tv and playing games without static images at a contrast around 70 during the first 100 to 250 hours, and is there any benefit of using dvd break in disc compared to the previous method? Thanks for the help!



If you watch only full screen, non-static images, you can turn the brightness, contrast, and cell light all the way up. Besides wear on your TV and slightly shorter life expectancy (which shouldn't concern you at all considering how long today's plasmas last), you will not suffer more (or any) burn in or IR.


Note that a HUD or a station logo counts as a static image.


----------



## nightplayer

hi guys well i have using the dvd for break my plasma more less 63 hours,, I know that I should have at least 100 or 200 hours,,,but wonder i at this point i could play some 360 and ps3 with all my settings below 50... just for a couple of hours (1 or 3) at day...



Also just happend me 2 times after watch some blu ray movies when I used the subtitle option, when I change to a black background I get a ghost retention of the subtitles not very clear only if you get near, of course after i change the colors the ghost image its gone...this is normal??


sorry for my english its not my mean language


thks for your comments


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nightplayer* /forum/post/16971477
> 
> 
> hi guys well i have using the dvd for break my plasma more less 63 hours,, I know that I should have at least 100 or 200 hours,,,but wonder i at this point i could play some 360 and ps3 with all my settings below 50... just for a couple of hours (1 or 3) at day...
> 
> 
> 
> Also just happend me 2 times after watch some blu ray movies when I used the subtitle option, when I change to a black background I get a ghost retention of the subtitles not very clear only if you get near, of course after i change the colors the ghost image its gone...this is normal??
> 
> 
> sorry for my english its not my mean language
> 
> 
> thks for your comments



I would hold off on the gaming for a bit more...


And yes, it's normal that the ghost is gone. Do you miss it?











FWIW, I watched the football game last night, and the end of the Sox-Yanks game too, and noticed an ESPN logo on the bottom right. Not very clear, but you could tell something was there. And that was only on an all black screen. I wouldn't have even noticed it if it weren't an all black screen. And after running the break in DVD a little more, it's gone.










I'm still under 150 hours so I almost expect IR, but this is the first time seeing it. And I'm not worried because I couldn't even see it until it was a black screen.


----------



## Tpeezy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/16973644
> 
> 
> I would hold off on the gaming for a bit more...
> 
> 
> And yes, it's normal that the ghost is gone. Do you miss it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, I watched the football game last night, and the end of the Sox-Yanks game too, and noticed an ESPN logo on the bottom right. Not very clear, but you could tell something was there. And that was only on an all black screen. I wouldn't have even noticed it if it weren't an all black screen. And after running the break in DVD a little more, it's gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still under 150 hours so I almost expect IR, but this is the first time seeing it. And I'm not worried because I couldn't even see it until it was a black screen.




I had the same problem with the ESPN logo. How long did it take you to get it to go away? Mine was still there after a couple of hours when i was watching the Patriot. It makes me worry that I might have burned it in...


----------



## Tpeezy

oh yea, I have a samsung 850 series, only had it for a month and have done no break in


----------



## JTrainGBR83

I mentioned this in another thread, but figured I would expand upon it here, since this is the main thread for IR talk.


I have the G10 and did roughly 100 hours of the break-in slides. Since then, I've played a good amount of NCAA Football 10 on the PS3. I've used the "Game" mode, which is slightly darker than the "Custom" mode, and had brightness and contrast both down around 50. Frustratingly, there is a scoreboard overlay that remains along the bottom of the screen during a game. It stays there the entire game and there is no option to remove it. There is a good deal of white on black:











I've been playing 2-4 hours a day, and no more than two or three games in a row (each game being roughly an hour), so there was never a time when this scoreboard image was on the screen for any more than three hours at a time (and even then there were short 5-10 min. breaks in between each game). Considering I used the break-in slides initially and have not used particularly bright settings, I was surprised to see some noticeable IR (praying it's not burn-in) on the set when I turned off the PS3 after playing last night. I quickly ran the white scrolling bar, expecting the IR to be wiped out within a few seconds, but it remained. I ran the scrolling bar for several minutes, followed by watching some full screen content and then checked again. Still there.


Luckily, the IR isn't noticeable while viewing actual content (unless the content is a single color at the bottom of the screen and you're looking _very_ closely), but being a perfectionist about my new toys (especially expensive ones), this is bothering me quite a bit. I've been running a lot of full screen content today (no static images of course) and I've run the scrolling bar 4-5 times over the course of the day. It has now been 24 hours since I played my last game and the IR is still there (it seems to have faded a bit though). I've included pictures of my actual TV screen (the bottom left of it at least). The first is the actual photo, the second is a version I modified in Photoshop to accentuate where the IR is exactly.

Attachment 149848 

Attachment 149849 


What do you guys think? Is this something that might hang around for a couple weeks and then finally fade away completely, or could it be permanent burn-in? I could understand this had I had an image up for 10+ hours, but as I said, it was only 2-3 hours, with short breaks in between. And my picture settings were very reasonable.


Also, what's my best option to try to get rid of this quickly? Should I continue to run the scrolling bar a few times a day, watch full screen content (and if so, with what picture settings?), run the break-in slides again for a few hours, or just leave the set off for a couple days? Let me know, thanks for your time.


----------



## fourtytwoinch

well if you played it for 2-4 hours a day you did have the image on the screen for 10+ hours. for burn-in its total time that would count, not time per viewing session.


----------



## JTrainGBR83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16989515
> 
> 
> well if you played it for 2-4 hours a day you did have the image on the screen for 10+ hours. for burn-in its total time that would count, not time per viewing session.



That doesn't make sense. If you play for two hours, then watch TV and come back and play the next day, the pixels have adjusted. There's no way it can just be total time that a pixel is lit with one color, or everything would cause burn in.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16989515
> 
> 
> well if you played it for 2-4 hours a day you did have the image on the screen for 10+ hours. for burn-in its total time that would count, not time per viewing session.



This is not the case unless previous IR has not faded when you introduce the images again. As long as you watch other content in between gaming sessions the time on screen for the game starts fresh each time.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTrainGBR83* /forum/post/16991643
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense. If you play for two hours, then watch TV and come back and play the next day, the pixels have adjusted. There's no way it can just be total time that a pixel is lit with one color, or everything would cause burn in.



Burn-in is un-even phosphor wear. Therefore, what I said makes perfect sense.


IR is not and is temporary.




> Quote:
> As long as you watch other content in between gaming sessions the time on screen for the game starts fresh each time.



We are talking about burn-in.


It does not start fresh each time. If you age half the screen and don't age the other half, does it matter that in between this that you have evenly aged both halves?


It is easier to get burn-in in the first 200-300 hours because of the faster aging of the phosphors. After that it is very hard.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tpeezy* /forum/post/16976635
> 
> 
> I had the same problem with the ESPN logo. How long did it take you to get it to go away? Mine was still there after a couple of hours when i was watching the Patriot. It makes me worry that I might have burned it in...



It went away fairly quick. I would say about 2-3 hours...


Actually to be honest, I don't even know. I wasn't freaking out because I only saw it on a no signal screen. I don't usually watch no signal screens, and it wasn't noticeable on regular viewing










You live once, don't freak out!



And if you guys are noticing something that shouldn't be there, run the break in dvd for a while. It will keep a full image up, and constantly change the colors with the phosphors.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTrainGBR83* /forum/post/16979698
> 
> 
> Also, what's my best option to try to get rid of this quickly? Should I continue to run the scrolling bar a few times a day, watch full screen content (and if so, with what picture settings?), run the break-in slides again for a few hours, or just leave the set off for a couple days? Let me know, thanks for your time.



From my understanding, it's going to go away as fast as it got there. Meaning that you're probably going to want to avoid it for the same amount of time you played it. I don't think you can just speed it up. Don't worry unless you see it over something you're watching and it affects your viewing experience.


----------



## ALYSHA

Hi, i just got a pioneer 151 auguest 1. and purchased a bdp320 and burned the break-in dvd and have been playing it since last friday augest 7th continuasly except for one night when it was storming i stopped it . i got a tv manufactured in oct 2008 .and i had'nt done the firmware update but i ordered it from pioneer and it came .i was wondering if it is ok to be breaking it in without the update and update it when its done or do i need to do the update and break it in more or am i ok? thanks


----------



## DJ Lushious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALYSHA* /forum/post/16996006
> 
> 
> Hi, i just got a pioneer 151 auguest 1. and purchased a bdp320 and burned the break-in dvd and have been playing it since last friday augest 7th continuasly except for one night when it was storming i stopped it . i got a tv manufactured in oct 2008 .and i had'nt done the firmware update but i ordered it from pioneer and it came .i was wondering if it is ok to be breaking it in without the update and update it when its done or do i need to do the update and break it in more or am i ok? thanks



The firmware does little to interfere with your break-in procedure. Last I recall, the only thing the firmware update addressed was that it sped up tuning in to OTA channels.


----------



## AroundTheTV

Quick question, how come the break in slides don't have a yellow one?


----------



## MrLucky

Just to be sure my downloaded burn-in CD is functioning properly-the frequent white screen intermittent with the color slides is an integral part of the burn-in loop?

(I'm running it on standard CRT TV just to check if it had downloaded at all)

The new plasma should be arriving any minute, now.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AroundTheTV* /forum/post/16999715
> 
> 
> Quick question, how come the break in slides don't have a yellow one?



it's red/green/blue


those are the additive primary colors that make up all the other colors.


yellow is a secondary color


----------



## JTrainGBR83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/16992301
> 
> 
> Burn-in is un-even phosphor wear. Therefore, what I said makes perfect sense.
> 
> 
> IR is not and is temporary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are talking about burn-in.
> 
> 
> It does not start fresh each time. If you age half the screen and don't age the other half, does it matter that in between this that you have evenly aged both halves?
> 
> 
> It is easier to get burn-in in the first 200-300 hours because of the faster aging of the phosphors. After that it is very hard.



We may be talking about IR. I don't know what it is yet. Also, what you say here is very different from the majority opinion I've read about on these forums. Calling burn-in "easy", even in the first 200 hours, seems very inaccurate. From everything I've read, actual burn-in is actually very, _very_ difficult with newer plasmas. IR may be easy, but not burn-in.


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTrainGBR83* /forum/post/17003597
> 
> 
> We may be talking about IR. I don't know what it is yet. Also, what you say here is very different from the majority opinion I've read about on these forums. Calling burn-in "easy", even in the first 200 hours, seems very inaccurate. From everything I've read, actual burn-in is actually very, _very_ difficult with newer plasmas. IR may be easy, but not burn-in.



JTrain, it's IR, not burn in. You have two problems at the moment:


-- Temporary IR tends to be more frequent and last longer earlier in the life of your set.


-- You're playing one of the worst games for IR, NCAA (along with Madden). Those EA scoreboards are awful IR producers because of the EA logo, the white lines, and the fact that they don't go away very much.


My advice is to watch stuff in between your games or mix up your gaming rotation a bit. Over time, the IR will occur less frequently and severely. I'd also try and limit your time a little -- maybe avoid sessions longer than an hour for now. It sucks, I know -- I'm about to go through the same thing with Madden and my new Panny V10 -- but even when you know it's just IR, it's hard to not get a little panicked.


But don't worry. I have gamed on a Panny plasma for three years and never had any IR last more than a day or two (and that was from Madden early in the life of my set). I still get a little IR on that TV from games like Rock Band, but it always goes away very quickly. If you can't see it during other programming or games, I wouldn't be very worried. Just be a little careful.


----------



## JTrainGBR83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brando70* /forum/post/17014852
> 
> 
> JTrain, it's IR, not burn in. You have two problems at the moment:
> 
> 
> -- Temporary IR tends to be more frequent and last longer earlier in the life of your set.
> 
> 
> -- You're playing one of the worst games for IR, NCAA (along with Madden). Those EA scoreboards are awful IR producers because of the EA logo, the white lines, and the fact that they don't go away very much.
> 
> 
> My advice is to watch stuff in between your games or mix up your gaming rotation a bit. Over time, the IR will occur less frequently and severely. I'd also try and limit your time a little -- maybe avoid sessions longer than an hour for now. It sucks, I know -- I'm about to go through the same thing with Madden and my new Panny V10 -- but even when you know it's just IR, it's hard to not get a little panicked.
> 
> 
> But don't worry. I have gamed on a Panny plasma for three years and never had any IR last more than a day or two (and that was from Madden early in the life of my set). I still get a little IR on that TV from games like Rock Band, but it always goes away very quickly. If you can't see it during other programming or games, I wouldn't be very worried. Just be a little careful.



Thanks for the reply. I really hope you are right, although I have been avoiding the game for the better part of 4-5 days now, and the ghost of the scoreboard bar is still slightly visible on a blank white or gray screen. I'm considering buying the PixelProtector DVD and trying to clear it for good. In the meantime, I've just been trying to run 4-5 hours of full screen content every day, and doing the white scroll bar a couple times a day.


After this experience, I would recommend people avoid gaming for any longer than an hour at a time (as Brando says) in the first 500 hours of TV use. And even then, keep Brightness and Contrast under 20, and Sharpness under 50. And run the white scroll bar for 5-10 minutes after each gaming session, along with watching some full-screen content.


I'll update my IR situation in the next 3-4 days.


----------



## beazalbob69

I think its kind of funny that people would never know any of this information whether it is a real issue or not if we didnt have the internet.


Somebody just wants a nice TV so they go buy one like I did. They get it home and all hooked up and love the beautiful picture. Then they figure they will go look for some info on the Web just like I did. Then they find threads like this one and they start to worry about all this crap that they wouldnt have even known about if they didnt have the internet.


So then the same old questions are asked again and again.....


Can I watch TV with black bars?


Do I have to break my TV in? 100 hours or 200 hours or 1000 hours?


What about the station icons in the corner of the screen will they break my TV?


This question is my personal favorite....

All I watch is widescreen movies with black bars on top and bottom will this cause Burn In?

If thats all you watch then who gives a S**T if the black bars stay there?


There is so much good information on this site but you have to dig through so much crap that its very hard to find. I think there might be too much info for 90% of the people who buy new TV's and would probably never even notice IR or BI if they didnt read all these posts and then start looking for it.


Cant people just enjoy their new HDTV's? I would think that if break in was nessasary TV manufactures would either pre break in their sets or give you a break in DVD with the TV.


Edit:

I am sorry about this post its just that I got tired of seeing the same questions over and over again after reading many pages of this thread.


----------



## moggi1964us

I have just started the break-in on my 500M and the *screen* is emitting a lot of heat (as well as heat coming from the rear vents of course). Is that normal?


I haven't owned a plasma before.


----------



## Instance56

Hi im having a bit ( big ) issue with my new PN50B550 Samsung plasma.


Basically ive got burn in around 3 edges of my screen ( its a darker black ). That is visable when the tv is turned off ( powered off ) as well. Is that normal ?


Its definatly burn in because hrs and hrs of Scroll screen has done nothing. The tv has had no more than 20hrs on it ( atleast 5 being the scroll screen ).


The burn in is around the Left edge / right / top edge. Its about 8pixles wide on the left edge. 12 on the top and 12 on the right.


Sure i have watched limited ( less that 10mins at a time ) of tv that had black bars ( only widescreen bars tho ) as in on the top and bottom.


And i have not had any static images for more than 1min on the screen. And this horrible burn in happen in about a 1hr period when i had Burn in CD running ( yes it filled the screen perfectly ).


Is it faulty ?


----------



## stupidassdrummer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moggi1964us* /forum/post/17023286
> 
> 
> I have just started the break-in on my 500M and the *screen* is emitting a lot of heat (as well as heat coming from the rear vents of course). Is that normal?
> 
> 
> I haven't owned a plasma before.



yes, very normal for the 500m. Mine gets really hot and heats up the room if left on for 6+hrs. Its NORMAL though, no need to worry


----------



## beazalbob69

I dont see how you could possibly cause permanent burn in on a TV that only has 20 hours on it and you stated that you never watched anything with black bars for more than 10 minutes at a time.

Also it wouldnt be only around the edges if it was from black bars.

Mabey there is something wrong with your set?


----------



## beazalbob69




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Instance56* /forum/post/17023612
> 
> 
> Hi im having a bit ( big ) issue with my new PN50B550 Samsung plasma.
> 
> 
> Basically ive got burn in around 3 edges of my screen ( its a darker black ). That is visable when the tv is turned off ( powered off ) as well. Is that normal ?
> 
> 
> Its definatly burn in because hrs and hrs of Scroll screen has done nothing. The tv has had no more than 20hrs on it ( atleast 5 being the scroll screen ).
> 
> 
> The burn in is around the Left edge / right / top edge. Its about 8pixles wide on the left edge. 12 on the top and 12 on the right.
> 
> 
> Sure i have watched limited ( less that 10mins at a time ) of tv that had black bars ( only widescreen bars tho ) as in on the top and bottom.
> 
> 
> And i have not had any static images for more than 1min on the screen. And this horrible burn in happen in about a 1hr period when i had Burn in CD running ( yes it filled the screen perfectly ).
> 
> 
> Is it faulty ?



I dont see how you could possibly cause permanent burn in on a TV that only has 20 hours on it and you stated that you never watched anything with black bars for more than 10 minutes at a time.

Also it wouldnt be only around the edges if it was from black bars.

Mabey there is something wrong with your set?


----------



## Instance56

@ Beaz


Yea it just dosen't add up. Nothing I've watched matches the burn in pattern. I called local shop where i bought it. Thier sending thier tech guy to have a look. Best be a new unit rdy to go







. Thnx for your opinion.


----------



## MrLucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stupidassdrummer* /forum/post/17023978
> 
> 
> yes, very normal for the 500m. Mine gets really hot and heats up the room if left on for 6+hrs. Its NORMAL though, no need to worry



I noticed this also and since I'm an overly fastidious idiot, I put a fan behind it (it's in a corner). Cooled the back of the panel nicely, although heat still noticeably emitted from the front. I figured it wouldn't hurt and maybe the circuits were a bit happier.


----------



## moggi1964us




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrLucky* /forum/post/17024541
> 
> 
> I noticed this also and since I'm an overly fastidious idiot, I put a fan behind it (it's in a corner). Cooled the back of the panel nicely, although heat still noticeably emitted from the front. I figured it wouldn't hurt and maybe the circuits were a bit happier.



Thanks gents. I have done the same thing with a fan blowing over the bluray; the panel and the receiver. I'll take the receiver out of the mix tomorrow.


----------



## stupidassdrummer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrLucky* /forum/post/17024541
> 
> 
> I noticed this also and since I'm an overly fastidious idiot, I put a fan behind it (it's in a corner). Cooled the back of the panel nicely, although heat still noticeably emitted from the front. I figured it wouldn't hurt and maybe the circuits were a bit happier.



Its a good idea to keep the panel cool, however putting a fan blowing direct air into it, could push dust into/further into the panel. Possibly causing a problem later on down the road. If I was putting a fan in the back of my TV I would face it the opposite direction so that it pulls the hot air out of the panel.


I wish I could do that. I bought the ultra slim wall mount from monoprice, and I only have 3/4in room behind the TV. Not enough room for a fan. I barely got my connections in. TIGHT FIGHT but SUPER cool looking.


----------



## nightplayer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *x cmon3y x* /forum/post/16838713
> 
> 
> fairly new around 100 hours by now, the games that left the dark outlines I played for no more then 3 hours at a time, i have all my pic settings below 40 and pixel orbiter on 1 minute



so its better leave the orbiter on 1 minute? i have it on automatic... im around 140 hours yesterday i play some killzone on my ps3 after play like 10 minutes when I QUIT the game on the black background I saw like a ghost image from the Map game and the Hud bar...and only play minutes,,,I run the dvd break and the ghosts desappear..my question I need to break at least 250 hours ?? i cant imagine if i play 1 hour ...can i get a burn image??

thks and sorry for my english


----------



## codexavellum

I use Automatic.


----------



## MrLucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stupidassdrummer* /forum/post/17024926
> 
> 
> Its a good idea to keep the panel cool, however putting a fan blowing direct air into it, could push dust into/further into the panel. Possibly causing a problem later on down the road. If I was putting a fan in the back of my TV I would face it the opposite direction so that it pulls the hot air out of the panel.
> 
> 
> I wish I could do that. I bought the ultra slim wall mount from monoprice, and I only have 3/4in room behind the TV. Not enough room for a fan. I barely got my connections in. TIGHT FIGHT but SUPER cool looking.



Hmm, I suppose it's possible to blow something in there but within this house and the location of the fan and I don't think it would be likely. Atmospheric scientists feel free to chime in here. If you really wanted to get a fan behind your panel, you could put it behind the drywall covered by an unobtrusive screen similar to those on in-wall speakers. You would have to make a sheet metal duct enclosure with openings for the fan intake and exhaust for the fan to rest in behind the drywall. It would be useful, flush to the wall, almost invisible and give you tech bragging rights on these forums.


----------



## ALYSHA

Hi, i have a question about the break-in dvd i downloaded . i had never burned a dvd before.i saw on a thread where someone posted a picture of a gray slide and my dvd did'nt have a gray mine had red ,white ,blue, green.Did i do somthing wrong and not get all the colors or something? thanks


----------



## MrLucky

Watch the white image for awhile. You should notice a subtle change to a gray hue. I would not call it a true "gray". (Oh, God! unless mine is screwed up too!)


----------



## wex9393




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTrainGBR83* /forum/post/16979698
> 
> 
> I mentioned this in another thread, but figured I would expand upon it here, since this is the main thread for IR talk.
> 
> 
> I have the G10 and did roughly 100 hours of the break-in slides. Since then, I've played a good amount of NCAA Football 10 on the PS3. I've used the "Game" mode, which is slightly darker than the "Custom" mode, and had brightness and contrast both down around 50. Frustratingly, there is a scoreboard overlay that remains along the bottom of the screen during a game. It stays there the entire game and there is no option to remove it. There is a good deal of white on black:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been playing 2-4 hours a day, and no more than two or three games in a row (each game being roughly an hour), so there was never a time when this scoreboard image was on the screen for any more than three hours at a time (and even then there were short 5-10 min. breaks in between each game). Considering I used the break-in slides initially and have not used particularly bright settings, I was surprised to see some noticeable IR (praying it's not burn-in) on the set when I turned off the PS3 after playing last night. I quickly ran the white scrolling bar, expecting the IR to be wiped out within a few seconds, but it remained. I ran the scrolling bar for several minutes, followed by watching some full screen content and then checked again. Still there.
> 
> 
> Luckily, the IR isn't noticeable while viewing actual content (unless the content is a single color at the bottom of the screen and you're looking _very_ closely), but being a perfectionist about my new toys (especially expensive ones), this is bothering me quite a bit. I've been running a lot of full screen content today (no static images of course) and I've run the scrolling bar 4-5 times over the course of the day. It has now been 24 hours since I played my last game and the IR is still there (it seems to have faded a bit though). I've included pictures of my actual TV screen (the bottom left of it at least). The first is the actual photo, the second is a version I modified in Photoshop to accentuate where the IR is exactly.
> 
> Attachment 149848
> 
> Attachment 149849
> 
> 
> What do you guys think? Is this something that might hang around for a couple weeks and then finally fade away completely, or could it be permanent burn-in? I could understand this had I had an image up for 10+ hours, but as I said, it was only 2-3 hours, with short breaks in between. And my picture settings were very reasonable.
> 
> 
> Also, what's my best option to try to get rid of this quickly? Should I continue to run the scrolling bar a few times a day, watch full screen content (and if so, with what picture settings?), run the break-in slides again for a few hours, or just leave the set off for a couple days? Let me know, thanks for your time.



Same TV... same issue... only mine comes from playing Madden 2010. I've probably logged 15 hours with the game, no more than 3 hours at any given time. Obviously the overlay isn't on the screen all the time, but stagnant and on there for probably 13 hours.


I could see it last night when I watched The Wrestler from from a little bit of an off angle from about 6 feet away on the dark scenes. I've watched roughly 4 hours of TV and it's still there. I've run the bar for about 45 minutes... still there.


I guess, I'm going to have to hope it goes away, but that's probably it for the XBOX 360 on this TV-- especially Madden.


The Plasma picture is amazing, but this issue is just absurd. Pain in the ass.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wex9393* /forum/post/17046939
> 
> 
> Same TV... same issue... only mine comes from playing Madden 2010. I've probably logged 15 hours with the game, no more than 3 hours at any given time. Obviously the overlay isn't on the screen all the time, but stagnant and on there for probably 13 hours.
> 
> 
> I could see it last night when I watched The Wrestler from from a little bit of an off angle from about 6 feet away on the dark scenes. I've watched roughly 4 hours of TV and it's still there. I've run the bar for about 45 minutes... still there.
> 
> 
> I guess, I'm going to have to hope it goes away, but that's probably it for the XBOX 360 on this TV-- especially Madden.
> 
> 
> The Plasma picture is amazing, but this issue is just absurd. Pain in the ass.



How many total hours do you have?


I watched the Yankees/Red Sox yesterday, and ended up watching War of the Worlds on ABC afterwards, and I could faintly see the outline where the scoreboard was. I finished watching the movie and by the end it was gone. Just to clarify, the only way I saw it was on a no signal, not during actual viewing.


BTW, I have over 225 hours on mine now.


----------



## jgrimsman

Hello-


I have a PC running XBMC for movies/tv shows etc that is basically all I watch, with a bit of rock band thrown in on occasion. I have always used a projector, however I just moved and my trusty projector is no longer an option. I have been looking around and it seems like Plasmas have the best picture to price ratio of anything around (specifically Samsung and Panasonic), however I've heard that IR is a problem, especially with Samsung. The difficult thing for me is that I like the picture of the Samsung better than that of the Panasonic (both new models).


So my question as it relates to this particular forum is just how bad is the IR on either when it comes to HTPC content?


Thanks!


----------



## wex9393




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17047883
> 
> 
> How many total hours do you have?
> 
> 
> I watched the Yankees/Red Sox yesterday, and ended up watching War of the Worlds on ABC afterwards, and I could faintly see the outline where the scoreboard was. I finished watching the movie and by the end it was gone. Just to clarify, the only way I saw it was on a no signal, not during actual viewing.
> 
> 
> BTW, I have over 225 hours on mine now.



I've got over 320 hours on it. I've notice IR on the no signal solid black screen from right up close in the past, but the most it's lasted is 20 to 30 minutes. I left the tv on last night showing discovery HD theater for about 10 hours, and it's gone away quite a bit. The EA logo isn't nearly as visible, but a faint outline of the bars is still there-- although probably not enough to affect regular viewing from where I normally sit. I'm running the Cnet settings on custom for everything I do, so my settings aren't particularly high.


I'm just about at the threshold of running full picture for the same number of hours the stagnant image was likely on the screen. So it will be interesting to see if that's what it takes to removing the ghosting.


ETA: It's completely gone away after about 15 hours of full HD viewing and turning the TV off for about 4 hours. I just played a madden game for about an hour. I'm going to check to see how long it takes to go away this time. So far, only visible on the black screen.


----------



## rinse

My PN42A450 was sent for repair, turns out they are going to replace the panel. Does this mean I have to go through the break-in process again? I would assume what we are "breaking" in is the panel itself correct?


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wex9393* /forum/post/17046939
> 
> 
> Same TV... same issue... only mine comes from playing Madden 2010. I've probably logged 15 hours with the game, no more than 3 hours at any given time. Obviously the overlay isn't on the screen all the time, but stagnant and on there for probably 13 hours.
> 
> 
> I could see it last night when I watched The Wrestler from from a little bit of an off angle from about 6 feet away on the dark scenes. I've watched roughly 4 hours of TV and it's still there. I've run the bar for about 45 minutes... still there.
> 
> 
> I guess, I'm going to have to hope it goes away, but that's probably it for the XBOX 360 on this TV-- especially Madden.
> 
> 
> The Plasma picture is amazing, but this issue is just absurd. Pain in the ass.



Madden is an IR pain in the rump. I really wish EA would give us the option to turn the scorebox off or have it disappear after the ball is snapped. I have been playing 2010 and seeing some IR. Not really worried about the TV -- it does fade after a while -- but the fact that my TV has only about 150 hours on it plus the bright EA logo means the IR will be tougher to remove for a while.


----------



## JTrainGBR83

My EA Sports scoreboard bar (from NCAA Football 10) IR is about 80-90% gone at this point (taken about two weeks so far). It is only slightly visible on a white, gray, green, or blue screen, and even then you really have to know where to look and pay close attention to see it. I've been watching full-screen HD content for 3-4 hours a day and running the white scroll bar 15 min. about three times a day. When I play a game (I have to play on occasion because I'm in an online league) I turn the brightness and contrast to zero, and also turn down the sharpness quite a bit. I only play one game (takes roughly an hour), then run the white scroll bar afterward and go back to watching HD content (on normal settings).


I'm hoping with another week or so doing this it will be cleared completely. We'll see...


And the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get with EA Sports. Surely they know about IR, and yet they give us absolutely zero options for this annoying bright scoreboard bar. It's on the screen for literally 99% of the game and is the worse possible image for IR/burn-in, bright white surrounded by various grays and black.


----------



## Brando70

I have had good success getting rid of the Madden IR. It will be very visible after a game, but some other programming and other gaming removes it by the next day. I think it's just a little stubborn because the logo is bright and the TV is still new.


In fact, I've noticed a lot of IR right after anything with the V10, even with low (+30) picture settings. It's all gone away quickly, so I know it's because the display is still breaking in. I imagine I'll start to see that IR become less frequent once I hit the 500-1000 hour range. I just plan to not have any marathon Madden sessions. It's annoying but a small price to pay for a great picture.


----------



## thaMOB

What if you were to play Madden 2010 on a Panasonic V10 with the settings at +40? so not on "game mode" or not any special settings? Do you think this would prevent the IR?


I recently bought a V10 and also just bought Madden, kinda scared to play it now. Perhaps I really should wait until I've logged about 500 hours on the TV..any evidence that this will prevent the IR on Madden?


----------



## TheJag

Hi..I downloaded the break in pics on a SD card to run the slideshow...When i look at them on computer they are there (differ solid colored pics which i am assuming are spose to be that way)..But when i put card in my panny G10 i get the 12 big thumbnails with No Photos window showing...And no info for Name..Date...Size...is there something i am doing wrong


Thanks...Rick


----------



## KakimotoRift

....I was gonna move into Plasma Camp but after reading these stuffs about Image-Retention and Burn-In.......scarying me....

Can't I just buy the Plasma TV and use it as I do with my LCDTV? Without doing all these Break-In things or whatever?


I am eyeing on the Panasonic V10.


----------



## sethhobrin

I have never owned a panny or a plasma before. i was mesmorized by the 65" v10 last night at BB. I do a lot of gaming though and I am worried about this burn in that you guys are talking about.


----------



## KakimotoRift

As far as I have researched. Burn-In happens in the first 100~200hrs.

The break-in process is there to use up the first 100~200hrs so that your burn-in will happen less possibly.


But since New Gen Panasonic Plasma integrated the Pixel Orbiter, the burn-in problem should become less of a problem. Pixel Orbiter is there to solve Burn-In and Image-Retention issues.


But still, use the Plasma TV with care. And I am still wondering if I should follow the Break-In Procedure for a week or not. Because 120hrs Break-In was recommended here which is almost a week. And this Break-In process still sounds like a theory to me.


But still, do the break-in procedure might make one feel safer.


I am wondering, when ppl do the break-in procedure, do they do it straight for a week without turning off the unit or?


Is this break-in procedure even approved by the official Plasma Makers? They could've done the break-in thing before they ship the units out, wouldn't they? or maybe break-in procedure is no longer needed for current gen Plasma TVs compare to the older gens.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KakimotoRift* /forum/post/17084871
> 
> 
> As far as I have researched. Burn-In happens in the first 100~200hrs.
> 
> The break-in process is there to use up the first 100~200hrs so that your burn-in will happen less possibly.
> 
> 
> But since New Gen Panasonic Plasma integrated the Pixel Orbiter, the burn-in problem should become less of a problem. Pixel Orbiter is there to solve Burn-In and Image-Retention issues.
> 
> 
> But still, use the Plasma TV with care. And I am still wondering if I should follow the Break-In Procedure for a week or not. Because 120hrs Break-In was recommended here which is almost a week. And this Break-In process still sounds like a theory to me.
> 
> 
> But still, do the break-in procedure might make one feel safer.
> 
> 
> I am wondering, when ppl do the break-in procedure, do they do it straight for a week without turning off the unit or?
> 
> 
> Is this break-in procedure even approved by the official Plasma Makers? They could've done the break-in thing before they ship the units out, wouldn't they? or maybe break-in procedure is no longer needed for current gen Plasma TVs compare to the older gens.





your questions are answered in the thread. many times over. most people do not do it for a week straight, they give it breaks. lots of people watch a little tv in between. plasma makers do not mention break in. they do not do a break-in at the factory because of the extra cost. 500 watts of electricity + a week of sitting there x thousands of televisions= a lot of time = a lot of money.


plasmas 'age' a lot faster early on(first 300 hours or so). doing a break-in gets this out of the way and ages each sub-pixel(red/green/blue) evenly. burn-in is caused by un-even aging. newer plasmas are rated at 100,000 hours to half-brightness. This is a reason why burn-in is less of a problem.




for years and years there have been sets with 'pixel orbiters'. This is not a magic cure for IR or burn-in. All it does is shift the image periodically.


----------



## nnarum23

I don't know if this was mentioned, but Pioneer ran some tests in 2005.

Results, they had a game paused for 48 hours and it did show some IR. After running 24 hours of non-stop video, IR was gone.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf 


And this was in 2005.


----------



## KakimotoRift

When Plasma is new, it is recommended to lower the contrast but the break-in recommended setting for V10 have contrast at max 100.....










And some site also mentioned not to display content that leaves black bars for the first 1000hours....but most of BD Movies leave black bars....


----------



## KakimotoRift

*Plasma burn in' proves to be myth, says IDC white paper*




Study after study of consumer attitudes towards and knowledge about HDTV identify a lack of understanding about HDTV as a serious impediment to its widespread growth.

A new white paper from market research provider IDC sponsored by Pioneer Electronics asserts that misinformation and inaccurate perceptions about the performance of various displays, in particular, plasma televisions is widespread.

Among the misinformation is the idea that plasma televisions suffer from burn in, a phenomenon where permanently ghosted images remain on screen as a result of displaying the same static image for several hours.

However, according to the IDC researchers, burn in is only a temporary situation with modern plasma displays. Ordinary usage of a burned in plasma display dissipates image retention to the point that it is eventually imperceptible, the white paper said.

IDC researchers performed extensive testing on plasma TVs, LCD TVs and microdisplay (MD) rear projection TVs to produce Myth busting Just the Facts on Plasma TV Performance.

Besides burn in, the white paper examined a number of performance characteristics, including:
Display life
Black level performance
Viewing angles
Screen brightness
Color accuracy


----------



## KakimotoRift

I will still be doing the break-in procedure just to be safe but there is this thing that puzzled me alot, articles recommend people to turn down the contrast to 50% when new, but the break-in setting is set to 100 max


----------



## Winewood

I just received a Samsung 63B590 my first plasma). The manual talks about configurating the screen burn protection option to prevent and reduce pixel burn. This option sets picture movement up/down (vertical line) and side to side (horizntal dot). Will this solve the burn-in problem, or just help prevent? Do I still need to follow the burn-in guidelines listed in some of these posts? Thank you.


----------



## yoshineko

I'm sure that full burn-in is relatively rare these days, but from what I'm experiencing temporary image retention can still be a pain with plasmas if you use them for gaming. I have a Panasonic TC-42PX14 plasma that I bought at Costco not quite a couple of months ago. I'm currently at over 450 hours on this TV. When I first got it I ran it for a 10 day/240 hour break-in period where I left the TV running constantly on Discovery HD when not watching it. During that period, and up to the present I have run both the brightness & contrast at 49. Image retention is minimal, except when I game.


I really enjoy Gears of War 2 multiplayer on the Xbox 360, and I play GoW2 for about 2 hours a night. This game has a HUD in the upper right corner of the screen, which is white on a black background. You can see it in this image I found online:











When I'm done playing, I have image retention of the HUD. I can see it on a "no input" blank screen, which isn't a big deal, but it also shows up as a shadow when I'm watching TV/movies and that part of the screen has a uniform light background. I can make it disappear, but it takes half a day of continuous running on other material to fully wash it away. The screen wipe feature doesn't do anything, and I'm already running my pixel orbiter at the highest setting. The shadow is only occasionally visible while watching TV/movies, since it requires a relatively uniform and light colored image, but it is there and it bugs me. If I keep playing this game, it's basically always going to be there, and I wonder if that means it may lead to burn-in after a while.


I've still got over a month left on the Costco return policy, and I'm seriously thinking about returning the TV for an LCD. They have their problems too, but at least I won't have to worry about potentially damaging the TV just by playing games.


----------



## Muckrak3r

Wow - and Panasonics are great. I am looking into getting a big plasma, and I love Panasonics. And I play Gears2 ALOT every day. This scares me.


----------



## yoshineko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muckrak3r* /forum/post/17087680
> 
> 
> Wow - and Panasonics are great. I am looking into getting a big plasma, and I love Panasonics. And I play Gears2 ALOT every day. This scares me.



I had initially been skeptical regarding plasma for gaming, and made the decision to try it based on the endless testimonials in this thread about how unlikely burn-in is, and how little image retention recent plasma TVs (especially Panasonics) suffer. Based on what I read here, I even wondered if doing the break-in was overkill. This TV has a fantastic picture, especially for a very inexpensive entry-level 720p model. If I were using it for just movies and TV, I would definitely keep it. It probably wouldn't be as big a deal for a gamer who frequently mixes up the games that they play. I'm kind of a serial monogamist with my games; I play one multiplayer game for a really long time until I burn out on it, then I repeat with the next multiplayer game. If that's how you play, it might not be the best option.


----------



## KakimotoRift

So do you think that the break-in procedure is really necessary for today's plasma or?

I play Forza2 alot, drifting with Japanese friends for many hours. And Forza2 has this Gauges that are constantly showing on screen on the same spot.


And ppl still didn't respond to the contrast part for break-in setting which is at max 100 where articles recommend to have 50% contrast when unit is new.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yoshineko* /forum/post/17088110
> 
> 
> I had initially been skeptical regarding plasma for gaming, and made the decision to try it based on the endless testimonials in this thread about how unlikely burn-in is, and how little image retention recent plasma TVs (especially Panasonics) suffer. Based on what I read here, I even wondered if doing the break-in was overkill. This TV has a fantastic picture, especially for a very inexpensive entry-level 720p model. If I were using it for just movies and TV, I would definitely keep it. It probably wouldn't be as big a deal for a gamer who frequently mixes up the games that they play. I'm kind of a serial monogamist with my games; I play one multiplayer game for a really long time until I burn out on it, then I repeat with the next multiplayer game. If that's how you play, it might not be the best option.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yoshineko* /forum/post/17088110
> 
> 
> I had initially been skeptical regarding plasma for gaming, and made the decision to try it based on the endless testimonials in this thread about how unlikely burn-in is, and how little image retention recent plasma TVs (especially Panasonics) suffer. Based on what I read here, I even wondered if doing the break-in was overkill. This TV has a fantastic picture, especially for a very inexpensive entry-level 720p model. If I were using it for just movies and TV, I would definitely keep it. It probably wouldn't be as big a deal for a gamer who frequently mixes up the games that they play. I'm kind of a serial monogamist with my games; I play one multiplayer game for a really long time until I burn out on it, then I repeat with the next multiplayer game. If that's how you play, it might not be the best option.



If it is inexpensive, why not ride out the storm and see if it comes out ok? That's how I look at it... There are numerous reports that prove that it will go away with regular viewing. Why sacrifice the PQ for a minor nuisance. Does it affect your regular viewing, or do you only see it on a no signal screen?


----------



## snovvman

Regarding the break-in process:


Everything I have read/see suggests that the break-in process can run continuously for 100-200+ hours (big range, by the way).


Are there any benefits or necessity to add some power-down cycles during the break-in process? That is, run the break-in for a certain period of time so the phosphorus can heat up, then turn off the set so it can fully cool (and perhaps potentially "set"?), then repeat the break-in.


Or, does it simply not matter?


I am just curious if there is anything to be gained.


Thanks.


----------



## KakimotoRift

Articles recommend people to have 50% contrast when new. But the break-in setting is recommending a max 100 Contrast.......


Also there is no explaination regarding why the break-in setting has to be set like that.


Do ppl that do the break-in process actually let it run straight 120hrs or more without turning off the unit? Can I just let it run at night when I am off to bed and have it turned off in the morning.


Summer? Winter?


----------



## yoshineko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17088194
> 
> 
> If it is inexpensive, why not ride out the storm and see if it comes out ok? That's how I look at it... There are numerous reports that prove that it will go away with regular viewing. Why sacrifice the PQ for a minor nuisance. Does it affect your regular viewing, or do you only see it on a no signal screen?



I've thought about that. I could always replace it and use it as the second TV (currently an HD CRT) if it doesn't work out as our primary.


It does appear in normal viewing, but only in scenes of light, mostly solid color like white backgrounds or light blue skies - so not that often. I'm more worried that letting it continue will cause future problems.


----------



## KakimotoRift

*What is break-in?*


Break-In is the time period from when a Plasma set is brand new until the plasma phosphors have aged (or hardened), to a point where it is less susceptible to image retention (IR). Phosphors are their "hottest" when new. You may notice when passing by a new plasma set that it gives off a lot of heat but runs cooler after 100 or so hours of use. During this break-in period, burn-in can occur more easily.
_Opposing View on Break-In:_ Not all plasma owners believe a break-in period is necessary for the later generations of Samsung plasma sets. The Samsung factory supports this view. Samsung's Support FAQ , as of 2007, states: "Samsung Plasma TVs do not require a break-in period." There has been much concern and confusion over this issue because both Pioneer and Panasonic published documents as late as 2004 stating their plasma sets required 1,000 hours of break-in. As of 2007, no plasma manufacturers suggest their sets require break-in. Some owners see this as good news, while some market analysts believe as plasmas continue to lose market share to LCD's, plasma manufacturers are no longer pointing out areas of concern that could impact sales. NET: Use your own best judgment.

**Plus almost 99.9% of the articles said do not run Plasma at torch mode when new and during the break-in period which is around 100hours+.

*There are also many recommended settings for break-in, all of them are not at contrast 100 which is very dangerous.

And also different type of connection will have different recommended settings.

Maybe do a proper calibration with colormeter should be the correct break-in setting to use during break-in period and thereafter.


----------



## funkyman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KakimotoRift* /forum/post/17088568
> 
> *What is break-in?*
> 
> 
> Break-In is the time period from when a Plasma set is brand new until the plasma phosphors have aged (or hardened), to a point where it is less susceptible to image retention (IR). Phosphors are their "hottest" when new. You may notice when passing by a new plasma set that it gives off a lot of heat but runs cooler after 100 or so hours of use. During this break-in period, burn-in can occur more easily.
> _Opposing View on Break-In:_ Not all plasma owners believe a break-in period is necessary for the later generations of Samsung plasma sets. The Samsung factory supports this view. Samsung's Support FAQ , as of 2007, states: "Samsung Plasma TVs do not require a break-in period." There has been much concern and confusion over this issue because both Pioneer and Panasonic published documents as late as 2004 stating their plasma sets required 1,000 hours of break-in. As of 2007, no plasma manufacturers suggest their sets require break-in. Some owners see this as good news, while some market analysts believe as plasmas continue to lose market share to LCD's, plasma manufacturers are no longer pointing out areas of concern that could impact sales. NET: Use your own best judgment.
> 
> **Plus almost 99.9% of the articles said do not run Plasma at torch mode when new and during the break-in period which is around 100hours+.
> 
> *There are also many recommended settings for break-in, all of them are not at contrast 100 which is very dangerous.
> 
> And also different type of connection will have different recommended settings.
> 
> Maybe do a proper calibration with colormeter should be the correct break-in setting to use during break-in period and thereafter.




Few concerns and questions.


Just got my dream plasma 58" 860.I was wondering if there was a fast track or a faster infra red burn-in method with the multi color loop i have,what must i do to cut down the 400-500 hours down to lets say a 100hrs.There is no ways i will use up 500w/h electricity just to burn -in the TV when there are no guarantees anyway .The last 860 Samsung i had ,however barely visible,did unforutnately ,after a month show faint outlines of the various channel emblems,usually located below right side.

Also woudln`t burning in the Plasma theoretically lower the black levels and reduce contrast since when the TV station emblems appear or are burnt in to the screen as faint outlines, inadvertantly the blackness of the screen has been greatly reduced,isn`t that the case.By break-in burning we are burning the whole screen,similar to TV logos and emblems ,thus making it go lighter and that reduces the blackness or black levels of the screen right?Am i missing something here?


----------



## KakimotoRift

I would do the break-in procedure with calibrated settings.


And this is what I will be doing once I got my 50" V10.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funkyman* /forum/post/17088640
> 
> 
> Few concerns and questions.
> 
> 
> Just got my dream plasma 58" 860.I was wondering if there was a fast track or a faster infra red burn-in method with the multi color loop i have,what must i do to cut down the 400-500 hours down to lets say a 100hrs.There is no ways i will use up 500w/h electricity just to burn -in the TV when there are no guarantees anyway .The last 860 Samsung i had ,however barely visible,did unforutnately ,after a month show faint outlines of the various channel emblems,usually located below right side.
> 
> Also woudln`t burning in the Plasma theoretically lower the black levels and reduce contrast since when the TV station emblems appear or are burnt in to the screen as faint outlines, inadvertantly the blackness of the screen has been greatly reduced,isn`t that the case.By break-in burning we are burning the whole screen,similar to TV logos and emblems ,thus making it go lighter and that reduces the blackness or black levels of the screen right?Am i missing something here?


----------



## funkyman

I found two black dead pixels or dots in the middle of the screen what do i do about that is there a zero pixel policy on the Samsungs.


----------



## fourtytwoinch

kaki,


the reason the break-in slides are done at 100 contrast is to get the early-aging of the phosphers out of the way faster. The reason to keep the contrast low while watching TV early on is to age them slower. The slower you age them, the less chance of burn-in while watching un-even content. The lower the contrast, the less chance of IR.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funkyman* /forum/post/17090277
> 
> 
> I found two black dead pixels or dots in the middle of the screen what do i do about that is there a zero pixel policy on the Samsungs.



what set do you have? and were did you buy it? If it was sears/best buy you will have a really easy time.


----------



## funkyman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fourtytwoinch* /forum/post/17090315
> 
> 
> what set do you have? and were did you buy it? If it was sears/best buy you will have a really easy time.



OK i found another 3 dead cells,also the speakers make like a ticking sound when you toglle through channels on the comcast receiver,the previous pn50b860 did not so thats another fault not to mention the buzzing sound from the circuitry in the back which isn`t too bad but i think we are looking for too much perfection.


Talk about a mutli symptom TV.The bad news is that i bought this from B&H Photo NY and they ain`t taking it back anytime soon


WTF


----------



## KakimotoRift

 watch this video regarding the burn-in and break-in settings you should use during the first 100hrs ~ 200hrs of your plasma (Panasonic)


The Panasonic Plasmas have built-in break-in period settings and functions to use if you want to use some programs that might cause image-retention of burn-in most likely.

But if you don't use those kind of programs, then you should be fine with it straight out of the box.


But to be the best, It is recommended to run 100hrs ~ 200hrs of Break-In procedure with built-in settings and functions provided by Panasonic.


These should apply to 10th 11th 12th Panasonic Plasmas. Not sure about earlier generations.

And here ** It is strongly recommended that you turn down the contrast and brightness of your Plasma TV to conform to regular break-in levels.


----------



## Brando70

Early in the life of a plasma set, you will get quite a bit of IR. If the input label comes on the screen (like HDMI 1), I'll see a little IR from it when it goes away if the room is dark and I don't have a signal into the TV. It's perfectly normal. The point is, the IR -- like the EA logo from the Madden score bar -- goes away. It may take a day, but it does. That's not burn-in.


As the set gets older and the pixels more resilient, that IR will happen less. But it still happens. It's nothing to panic about.


If you want to use your set primarily for gaming, and you tend to play a single game a lot for a long period of time, LCD may be better if just for the peace of mind. However, as a gamer who also uses my set for sports and movies, I absolutely love plasma. I'm willing to take some precautions and rotate my gaming titles for a while to enjoy the other benefits of this technology. Having been through the IR thing with one plasma and never seeing any permanent burn in, I'm much more relaxed about it this time around.


----------



## mrodger

I just picked up an LG 42PQ30 today and am attempting to run the burn-in disc. I've tried several things and the best so far is running from an Apex DVD player over composite. Playback seems to be just fine, but I've got two rows of pixels at the top and bottom of the display that are totally black. I've tried running the disc from a Sony DVD player over both composite and HDMI and have empty rows of pixels around all sides of the screen (2 at the top and bottom and 3 on the sides). I have seen these pixels active in other sources though. When running my Mac Mini through HDMI there are just two rows of empty pixels on the right, when flipping through OTA TV channels, I get results all over the place. I'm new to plasma displays and am upgrading from a Samsung DLP. Are these empty rows normal throughout sources? I'm guessing that it's probably not the best idea to run the burn in disc with these pixels empty.


----------



## nando11211

What setting has more of an influence on image retention and burn in: contrast or brightness?


On my Panasonic 42X1:

Contrast - 50

Brightness - 75


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nando11211* /forum/post/17106812
> 
> 
> What setting has more of an influence on image retention and burn in: contrast or brightness?
> 
> 
> On my Panasonic 42X1:
> 
> Contrast - 50
> 
> Brightness - 75



Contrast -- your white levels. Bright white static images are the biggest culprits for image retention.


----------



## Goldensuitcase

First of all, you guys seem to do a wonderful job here. Second, and for this I apologize, but I really just didn't have time to read through all this to get an idea as for a one-time setting, it's really a lot of new info for a newbie.


If someone would be so kind as to just give me a list of everything I should do as a new owner of a Panasonic TC-P54V10. I would really appreciate any help because I am somewhat clueless and do not want to ruin a huge investment.


Thank you to anyone who can help.


----------



## Bones10

I wanted to post my experience with IR. I have a 2008 Panny Plasma 50 inch, the 85u.


I performed an over 100 hour break in when I got the TV. No games at all during this period. This was back in August 2008. Since then I've been gaming the hell outta the TV and loving every minute of the pristine PQ. 0 issues with IR.


But just yesterday I noticed considerable IR when watching a BD during dark scenes. I knew the culprit immediately. Madden 10. What I failed to notice about the game is that the ticker is displayed during ALL the menus! So all the time I spent looking at possible trades with my franchise was displaying the damn ticker! This was after playing 16 games over the course of a few weeks, plus spending time in the menus.


After reading this thread I was a little relieved to see all the solutions to get rid of it. I ran the white bar a few times but it didn't get rid of it, so I left for work yesterday and left the TV on an HD channel without a harsh logo while I was there all day. I returned home to find the IR gone.


I played Madden again last night (2 games), and when I was finished, saw just a faint hint of it. I watched about an hour of TV afterwords and when I powered my set down, the IR was gone again. Looks like I've got it under control.


FYI I'm using custom cinema settings that are in the medium range - nothing too vibrant.


Thanks for all the info in this thread.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldensuitcase* /forum/post/17107945
> 
> 
> First of all, you guys seem to do a wonderful job here. Second, and for this I apologize, but I really just didn't have time to read through all this to get an idea as for a one-time setting, it's really a lot of new info for a newbie.
> 
> 
> If someone would be so kind as to just give me a list of everything I should do as a new owner of a Panasonic TC-P54V10. I would really appreciate any help because I am somewhat clueless and do not want to ruin a huge investment.
> 
> 
> Thank you to anyone who can help.



I don't have specific settings you'll want to use, but I kept mine under 50 for both contrast and brightness. I'd recommend doing this for 100-200 hours to be safe. Then dial in your settings after that. You shouldn't have to worry really. Just keep in mind to fill the screen while viewing SD content, and try to stay away from logos for the first month or so of owning it. Watching ESPN for like a hour or so probably won't hurt it, but you won't want to leave it on 24/7.


Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## omarcio

Hi,


I have been trying to find the step-by-step procedure for doing the break-in on a PDP-5020. Is there any link? I want to use the thumb drive files. I have already done the D-Nice's setting on my TV. Thanks in advance!


----------



## funkyman

I am at just over 100hrs break in now with contrast at 85 and everything else is pretty much 50 and cell light at 5 i think i don`t need to above a week of break in thats a good 240hrs with contarst at 85.It seems i only have 2 black dead cells on different parts of the plasma which can not be noticed unless you come really close and actually examine the screen in detail while the screen is at a light colour or shade.

Samsung only changes the set if you have 8 or more clustered dead cells together.


----------



## KakimotoRift

You will get Dead Pixels or Cells if you run at a insane or high level of contrast and brightness during the first 100~200hrs.


From Max Luma to Low Luma then Low Luma to High Luma with insane or high level of contrast and brightness is very stressful for Plasma during the first 100~200hrs. And that will only be harm than good.


*Luma = Luminance


----------



## funkyman

Brightness and cell light is low AT 50% AND 5 FOR CELL LIGHT

THE DEAD CELLS WERE THERE I THINK FROM DAY ONE i have 3 apparent ones thats all i`ll live with it


----------



## sharok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KakimotoRift* /forum/post/17119326
> 
> 
> You will get Dead Pixels or Cells if you run at a insane or high level of contrast and brightness during the first 100~200hrs.
> 
> 
> From Max Luma to Low Luma then Low Luma to High Luma with insane or high level of contrast and brightness is very stressful for Plasma during the first 100~200hrs. And that will only be harm than good.
> 
> 
> *Luma = Luminance



CNET recommends to set the contrast at 100 from Day 1 (DNice is not the only one who recommends the use of high contrast). Please check the settings for TC-P54V10 on CNET.


----------



## buckeyefan21x

hey, I noticed my plasma gets IR very easily, I even notice it the white outlines on the picture menus for a second. I notice it alot more after about 5-10 minutes of playing a few video games. Battlefield has a high white contrast menu and so does fallout 3 but its green. Anyways, it just seems to be the menus we stay on the screen. now, I know the samsungs have a way higher IR issue compared to the panasonics but do you guys think that burn in dvd really works? do you think i really need to run it? does it work better than just watching regular programs. I have all my settings below 50% and the cell light at 3. I mean does anyone have a samsung plasma that after they finished the first 100 hour break in do they still have the IR problem? Im just concerned b/c i play quite a few games and watch epsn alot. this has me worried a little bit b/c i dont want to ruin my t.v.


Im also going to keep the settings on low. Im just surprised that its just so easy to get the IR with the settings at a pretty low setting. I hope this isnt something im going to have to continuely worry about after the 100 hour break in period? Should i just return the sammy for a panasonic? I had a PZ80u and the first day i brought it home i played games for hours and never onced noticed IR at all compared to the sammy.


----------



## KakimotoRift

*4. Are there some simple tips to follow to prevent burn-in?*

Our video guru, Senior Editor David Katzmaier, says the potential for burn-in is greatest during the first 100 or so hours of use, "during which time you should keep contrast low (less than 50 percent) and avoid showing static images or letterbox bars on the screen for hours at a time." He personally has a three-year-old 50-inch plasma at home and notices that, after his wife watches the TV in the 4:3 mode (with black bars on either side of the image) for hours on end with no widescreen shows, he sometimes detects those after-images of the bars. But they quickly go away when he watches material that fills the whole screen (or he convinces her to use the gray bars).

"I just don't worry about it," he says. "Yeah, you can get some image retention once in awhile if you look hard enough after hours of static images, but even then it's temporary, not permanent."
_Update 02-29-2008_: Thanks to some readers' comments below, we have a few other tips to help remove burn-in if it occurs. Commenter gmccnet got good results by recording bright static on a VCR and playing it for 24 hours to almost completely remove the after-image. You could also simply leave a normal, widescreen channel on overnight or longer--just make sure it isn't one that goes to color bars in the early-morning hours. Discovery HD Theater is a good choice. - CNET


*Have fun to have Overall-Even Equal burn-in layer image on your TV. Yes less likely to see Image-Retention and Burn-In image thereafter because first it passed 100hrs and you have made yourself an overall-even equal burn-in layer image on it already and which small burn-in and image-retention is harder for you to notice. woops, killed the black performance too.


*The reason behind same break-in setting concept is to ensure that you will have similar result of his calibration afterward if you ever gonna use his calibration settings and not calibrating your TV yourself. It has nothing to do with Burn-In or Image-Retention idea. Again, you want the Burn-In and Image-Retention to not to occur at the first 100~200hrs as much as possible. And break-in procedure is to get away this period away first which is the time when it is most likely to have burn-in and image-retention phenomonon. High contrast and brightness and an instant big luma change and worst thing is letting it run repeatedly straight for 120hrs~200hrs without letting the unit stop and take some rest etc.. are where burn-in(permanent) are most likely to happen. You could do break-in with "proper" settings + proper materials for the first 100hrs~200hrs straight or your own schedule or even not having to do the break-in procedure but take care of it for the first 100hrs.


*The built-in swiping white bar is good function to use for break-in. After everytime you gamed or watched movies or whatever. Or just for break-in. Get away your first 100~200hrs break-in period away safely. Your only purpose is to let the phosphorus "aged" "hardened"



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sharok* /forum/post/17124915
> 
> 
> CNET recommends to set the contrast at 100 from Day 1 (DNice is not the only one who recommends the use of high contrast). Please check the settings for TC-P54V10 on CNET.


----------



## buckeyefan21x

Hey guys, I have a quick question. Im in the process of Break in my tv by watching Discovery theater HD since it doesnt have a logo and is full screen since it HD. I had my screen set to "screen fit" since i thought it was suppose to fill the whole screen up. Well Tonight as i was checking something out on the left hand corner, I thought the color had a completely blue tint to it which i was worried about, but i realized on the very top of the screen, About a quarter of a inch of the screen was black where the screen fit didnt fill the complete picture area. Now i have a black bar at the very top where the picture hasnt been playing.


my question is : isnt screen fit suppose to fill the entire screen? the black bar outline (either IR or Burn in) Was left like that for 2 days or so. Do you think that black bar outline is burnt in to the t.v picture or do you think fixing it back to 16:9 will even it out in a couple of days? Also, As im trying to break in my t.v, Will it hurt to leave your t.v on for quite a while watching a HD channel that has no logos. I seen where people run that break in dvd all night long. I thought about running the scrolling bar all night, Can you guys please give me some suggestions? Thanks


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buckeyefan21x* /forum/post/17133469
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I have a quick question. Im in the process of Break in my tv by watching Discovery theater HD since it doesnt have a logo and is full screen since it HD. I had my screen set to "screen fit" since i thought it was suppose to fill the whole screen up. Well Tonight as i was checking something out on the left hand corner, I thought the color had a completely blue tint to it which i was worried about, but i realized on the very top of the screen, About a quarter of a inch of the screen was black where the screen fit didnt fill the complete picture area. Now i have a black bar at the very top where the picture hasnt been playing.
> 
> 
> my question is : isnt screen fit suppose to fill the entire screen? the black bar outline (either IR or Burn in) Was left like that for 2 days or so. Do you think that black bar outline is burnt in to the t.v picture or do you think fixing it back to 16:9 will even it out in a couple of days? Also, As im trying to break in my t.v, Will it hurt to leave your t.v on for quite a while watching a HD channel that has no logos. I seen where people run that break in dvd all night long. I thought about running the scrolling bar all night, Can you guys please give me some suggestions? Thanks



Most cable boxes/directv have slight outlines or noise around their channels. On panasonics you have to use HD size 2(or is it 1?) to get ride of it.


----------



## RustyBob

I purchased my first HDTV today. The 50" S1. Is this master burn-in/IR breakin a "one size fits all" deal ? Meaning, the dvd or svcd is for all plasmas/models and so on ? Or do I need one for my particular make and model ? Also, is there a start to finish "how to" guide for doing this. So far, I've just been reading page after page from what seems to be hundreds of pages. Then going back and rereading to see if there was something I missed the first time. I've reached cranium overload weeks ago. It's just more than my little pea brain can handle.


----------



## roztom

I just got a TC-P50S1 and started the burn-in with the Download thru Nero to Disc.


I see the REds, Blues, Greens, and white/Grays but should there be any more colors in there? like BLack??


THANKS!!


Tom


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17143993
> 
> 
> I just got a TC-P50S1 and started the burn-in with the Download thru Nero to Disc.
> 
> 
> I see the REds, Blues, Greens, and white/Grays but should there be any more colors in there? like BLack??
> 
> 
> THANKS!!
> 
> 
> Tom



this has been answered a lot. there are 3-subpixels that make up each pixel. the additive primary colors; red/green/blue. All the other colors are made from these 3 colors.


----------



## roztom

THanks.


When I run the SD Card on the TC-P50S1 I get the same shades of RED, GREEN and BLUE..(Grays to vary) otherwise the colors are alp the same, there are no variations.


When I run the DVD there are variations.


Is it preferable to run the DVD instead of the SD Card to get the different shades of color? Does it matter?


HAs anyone else observed this?


tx,


Tom


----------



## skatalitegp

Hey everyone! I got my PN50B650 today and was wondering what setting recommendations there are for break-in period? I haven't had time to use it much today due to work, but I came home to find my roommate had been using it, thus causing some image retention. I was able to remove it with Scrolling feature on the Burn-in menu.


Right now I have it at:


Movie mode

Warm 2

Cell light: 5

Contrast: 50

Brightness: 50

Sharpness: 5

Color: 50

Tint: 50/50

16:9 aspect

Digital noise reduction: Off

HDMI black level: low

Film mode: Off

Game mode: Off

Energy saver: Off


From what I figure, these settings for 100 hours should be good-to-go. But just want some opinions from people who know what they're talking about.


Also, should I avoid playing widescreen movies? I know I should keep gaming to a minimum. What about TV stations with static images? Should I avoid those or just keep it to a minimum?


Thanks!


----------



## 1986pacecar

I've got a question that may or may not be relevant but if plasmas are still vulnerable to burn in during the first couple hundred hours of use, then why don't the manufacturers incoporate that into their production process and eliminate the need for the customer to run special DVDs or SD cards to combat burn in? I know it all boils down to cost, but maybe the reputation that plamsa technology has been trying to overcome would benefit from it. I know that it's the primary reason I'm still hedging against buying plasma. I really want the Panasonic G10 but I'm hesitant because of this. For instance what happens if you load one of the "break in" DVDs and it somehow freezes the picture while you're running it overnight? I know that it's less of an issue than in the past, but it must still be an issue because everyone one on this forum recommends doing the burn in DVDs or something similar. It just seems to me that it's pretty poor QC that you have to baby plasma for the first 200 hours. No running scrolls on the screen, no black bars, etc. I know everyone here is going to get defensive explaining away the defect, but I don't think I'm the only one concerned about buying plasma strictly due to this issue.


----------



## skatalitegp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *1986pacecar* /forum/post/17154858
> 
> 
> I've got a question that may or may not be relevant but if plasmas are still vulnerable to burn in during the first couple hundred hours of use, then why don't the manufacturers incoporate that into their production process and eliminate the need for the customer to run special DVDs or SD cards to combat burn in? I know it all boils down to cost, but maybe the reputation that plamsa technology has been trying to overcome would benefit from it. I know that it's the primary reason I'm still hedging against buying plasma. I really want the Panasonic G10 but I'm hesitant because of this. For instance what happens if you load one of the "break in" DVDs and it somehow freezes the picture while you're running it overnight? I know that it's less of an issue than in the past, but it must still be an issue because everyone one on this forum recommends doing the burn in DVDs or something similar. It just seems to me that it's pretty poor QC that you have to baby plasma for the first 200 hours. No running scrolls on the screen, no black bars, etc. I know everyone here is going to get defensive explaining away the defect, but I don't think I'm the only one concerned about buying plasma strictly due to this issue.



In a way, I agree with you. Image retention is still a problem, for sure. I've never met a plasma owner with burn-in, though.


However, we have manufacturers who claim a break-in process isn't needed, and they box their units already in torch mode. So, a new buyer who just looks at the plasma as another TV might not be privy to the break-in process, and could cause permanent damage to their set.


And, really, telling an average Joe buyer that he should break-in his new TV for 100 to 200 hours is like pouring salt on the wound, haha. It's a deal breaker for many people if they knew about that.


----------



## KofSpades

Basically I have skimmed about 30 pages of this thread. I am currently running the Break-In DVD on my 50b850 and the contrast/brightness settings are at 50. I read some posts that state that when using the slides (continuous for 100+ hours) with no breaks, that the settings should be Vivid with maximum contrast? Can someone plus clear this up?


If this is true, would I have to start over or just change it? (been running about 60+ hours now)


Thanks in advance,


Matt


----------



## roztom

IF you are running at 50 and they recommend 100, in Vivid, then "probably" you should consider your time to be half the value you have accumulated.


I am running Break-in 24hrs a day in VIVID mode with D-Nices Settings at the beginning of this thread. I plan to go at least 120 -40 hours not including my TV time where I keep the contrast/brightness below 50 and keep all bars off the screen.


----------



## KofSpades




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17162522
> 
> 
> IF you are running at 50 and they recommend 100, in Vivid, then "probably" you should consider your time to be half the value you have accumulated.
> 
> 
> I am running Break-in 24hrs a day in VIVID mode with D-Nices Settings at the beginning of this thread. I plan to go at least 120 -40 hours not including my TV time where I keep the contrast/brightness below 50 and keep all bars off the screen.



I appreciate the quick feedback...I will change it this evening when I get home. I assume I can interrupt the process with about 3 hours of football (Bears game sunday night) as long as I put the settings down to 50 for this...


----------



## roztom

I would. I reduce the settings for regular watching to around 50% and keep the screen full- no bars and I watch to be carefull of any scroll bars and Logo's etc.


I am running the Break-In DVD which you can download for free.


Good luck & ENJOY your new TV..


----------



## sharok

I completed 180 hours of break-in using the slides with SD card (TC-P65V10). Lee Gallaghar from Phoenix calibrated the TV today. The picture looks fantastic.


----------



## roztom

WHich TV do you have?


Also did you have the dreaded "Green Push" and if so did the calibration eliminate it?


Tom


----------



## sharok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17165642
> 
> 
> WHich TV do you have?
> 
> 
> Also did you have the dreaded "Green Push" and if so did the calibration eliminate it?
> 
> 
> Tom



I have a 65" V10. I do not know whether I had the green push before completing the break-in process (I never used the TV before completing the Break-in period). But when the calibrator was calibrating the TV I asked him abou the color push and he told me that I have no red or green push and I dont have the yellow color problem that some people have with my THX mode.


----------



## Zeni

Hi, I'm about to purchase a samsung PN42B450 tomorrow. Having no knowledge on audio/video whatsoever, it would be great if anyone could direct me on how to properly 'break in' my TV, adjust/calibrate settings, as well as any other things I should know while operating (what to avoid, etc). If it helps, I only have a DVD player, no blu ray yet!


Please forgive my ignorance, but I'd really like to be able to optimize this to its fullest extent...maybe learn something about TVs in the process.


----------



## wxman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zeni* /forum/post/17170122
> 
> 
> Hi, I'm about to purchase a samsung PN42B450 tomorrow. Having no knowledge on audio/video whatsoever, it would be great if anyone could direct me on how to properly 'break in' my TV, adjust/calibrate settings, as well as any other things I should know while operating (what to avoid, etc). If it helps, I only have a DVD player, no blu ray yet!
> 
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance, but I'd really like to be able to optimize this to its fullest extent...maybe learn something about TVs in the process.



The simplest way to beak in your tv is to watch it full screen for 150 hours. Nothing special, no specific program, just watch it full screen. Then have it professionally calibrated.


----------



## nnarum23

.


----------



## bananax

sorry for the newbish question, but where are the slides that you can just throw onto an SD card? or do you just download the DVD and take the images from there?


----------



## smjbh5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wxman* /forum/post/17173491
> 
> 
> The simplest way to beak in your tv is to watch it full screen for 150 hours. Nothing special, no specific program, just watch it full screen. Then have it professionally calibrated.



better to stretch 4:3 programing or use grey bars on the sides?


----------



## RustyBob




> Quote:
> sorry for the newbish question, but where are the slides that you can just throw onto an SD card? or do you just download the DVD and take the images from there?




All the information here can be overwhelming. But it is there on the first few threads, somewhere. Look here

http://www.eaprogramming.com/


----------



## direwolf2009

Hi everyone,


I just bought this TV, and I'm totally new to this generation of flat TVs. Having said that, I'm really happy with it. After more reading though, it is recommended that I drop the Contrast, Brightness and Dynamic Contrast (to Off) and use Film Mode and Warm2 for the first 100 to 150 hours.


So, I recently set Contast to 58 and Brightness to 38 (as recommended by a Samsung Plasma FAQ site). The thing is, movies that are dark, are barely visible....


The thing is, I was wondering if anyone who owns this particular TV and what settings you would use for this burn-in period and beyond?


And, has anyone experienced burn-in damage or IR with this model? In other words, I thought based on reviews we were making the right choice, but I'm a little concerned given this issue.


Thanks for your help!


----------



## KofSpades

I have a slight amount of IR thanks to the football game on Sunday night (NBC peacock and scores at bottom). Tonight was the first time I turned on the TV since then and noticed it. I have run about half an hour of full screen material and half an hour of side scrolling (samsung) and the image is still there. Any suggestions?


----------



## roztom

Sorry to hear about your IR.


Did you do any Break-in prior to use?

Tom


----------



## JTrainGBR83

Well, it's now been around five weeks since I got serious IR or burn-in on my set from playing NCAA 10 (see page 57 of this thread). Unfortunately a very light outline of parts of the scoreboard bar (most notably the circular EA Sports logo on the left, are still visible on my screen when viewing certain blank color screens (white, gray, blue, etc.). I have viewed 100+ hours of full screen content since then trying to get rid of it, but to no avail. At this point I'm ready to call it permanent. So everyone, be extremely cautious about ANY gaming in the first 300 hours, and between 300 and 1000 hours, avoid sessions longer than 90 minutes, and follow them up with at least 30 minutes of full screen content and 5-10 min. of the white scroll bar.


The good news in my particular case is that it is impossible to notice while viewing actual content, so it isn't affecting my viewing experience in any way. Since the TV is several months old now, I'm not quite as OCD about it, so I'm mostly over the fact that EA has left me a nice little imprint of their logo. Again, it's only visible when you look very closely on a black screen, so it's not a terrible deal.


----------



## roztom

Did you use the Break-in process with slides before or did you do regular viewing ?


tx,


tb


----------



## JTrainGBR83




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17195541
> 
> 
> Did you use the Break-in process with slides before or did you do regular viewing ?
> 
> 
> tx,
> 
> 
> tb


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post16979698


----------



## MPDamon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTrainGBR83* /forum/post/17195507
> 
> 
> Well, it's now been around five weeks since I got serious IR or burn-in on my set from playing NCAA 10 (see page 57 of this thread). Unfortunately a very light outline of parts of the scoreboard bar (most notably the circular EA Sports logo on the left, are still visible on my screen when viewing certain blank color screens (white, gray, blue, etc.). I have viewed 100+ hours of full screen content since then trying to get rid of it, but to no avail. At this point I'm ready to call it permanent. So everyone, be extremely cautious about ANY gaming in the first 300 hours, and between 300 and 1000 hours, avoid sessions longer than 90 minutes, and follow them up with at least 30 minutes of full screen content and 5-10 min. of the white scroll bar.
> 
> 
> The good news in my particular case is that it is impossible to notice while viewing actual content, so it isn't affecting my viewing experience in any way. Since the TV is several months old now, I'm not quite as OCD about it, so I'm mostly over the fact that EA has left me a nice little imprint of their logo. Again, it's only visible when you look very closely on a black screen, so it's not a terrible deal.



Well I may be with you. See below. My TV is a Samsung 50inch G10. Still under the 30 days from Best Buy though.


Ok. Image Retention/Burn in question.


I followed the directions here with breaking in the TV with the slides. Didn't have the TV settings to high though. Used an SD card 100+ hours. Watched some full screen TV. Mostly 1st season of lost on Netflix instant.


Last night I played some Madden Football from the Xbox 360 - just 1 game less than an hour. Now when I turn the TV on without anything input into it and a black screen I can still see the "score/info" bar that is at the bottom of a Madden game. I ran the scolling white bar for a few minutes last night and for about 10 minutes this morning. It is still there. Before I left for work this morning I turned back on the break in slides and will check it at lunch. Everything else clears when I run the white scrolling bar but this seems to stay.


Just a note that when I look at the screen the room is totally dark so it's probably much easier to see things but I can make out most of the image so it's there for sure.


Do I have burn in?


----------



## KofSpades




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17195285
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about your IR.
> 
> 
> Did you do any Break-in prior to use?
> 
> Tom



I did 100+ hours of break-in slides before viewing. I ran the slides for about 4 hours this morning and the IR seems to have disappeared. One more thing, how long does something need to be static on the screen to create IR? Last night I had the service menu on the screen for about 45 sec, and it left some minor IR (easily wiped away) but I thought it would take longer for any IR to form.


----------



## roztom

WOW: that certianly sounds much too sensitive... I have been tweaking my Panny S14 and I hVE LEFT THE sERVICE mENU ON THE SCREEN FOR SEVERAL MINUTES with no effects...seems too senstive to me... Are you running the contrast up high?


tb


----------



## Zeni

I've already used my Samsung PN42B450 on 'torch mode' for one movie, then when on movie mode and reduced contrast and brightness, but did some gaming on the wii. Hopefully no permanent damage has been done, and I'm not too late at breaking in. But anyway, a couple of questions:


1) I plan on using the built in 'scrolling' screen burn protection. Do I leave contrast at 50ish or do I set it higher?


2) Would having this run overnight damage the TV? How many hours max could I have it running like this?


3) Would it be bad to watch movies with black bars above and below, maybe on brighter settings? Really hard to resist the urge to start enjoying my blu rays.


4) What is it about gaming that may be harmful during the break in process...or in general for plasmas? If my games do not have something that is static (so everything on the screen is always in motion), should it be no problem?


Thanks a lot.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zeni* /forum/post/17200321
> 
> 
> I've already used my Samsung PN42B450 on 'torch mode' for one movie, then when on movie mode and reduced contrast and brightness, but did some gaming on the wii. Hopefully no permanent damage has been done, and I'm not too late at breaking in. But anyway, a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> 1) I plan on using the built in 'scrolling' screen burn protection. Do I leave contrast at 50ish or do I set it higher?
> 
> 
> 2) Would having this run overnight damage the TV? How many hours max could I have it running like this?
> 
> 
> 3) Would it be bad to watch movies with black bars above and below, maybe on brighter settings? Really hard to resist the urge to start enjoying my blu rays.
> 
> 
> 4) What is it about gaming that may be harmful during the break in process...or in general for plasmas? If my games do not have something that is static (so everything on the screen is always in motion), should it be no problem?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot.



1. I would leave the contrast under 50% for the first 2 months you've owned the set, just to be safe.

2. Depends on how long you had a static image up, and do you see any IR when on a no signal screen?

3. You can, but I would maybe watch one and then watch some full screen content to switch it up. I don't know if your set is ready for a marathon of 2:35 content yet...

4. Static images are the enemy for the first 250-300 hours. But I was gaming on mine during my first 300. I just switched up the game and didn't play each one for longer than an hour at a time. Gaming on plasma is bliss.


----------



## direwolf2009

Hi,


I'm currently in the BI period with my Samsung PN42B450, with Contrast at 50-58, Brightness 45, Dynamic Contrast OFF, Black Level Low, Pixel Shift 2-2-2, Movie Mode, etc, etc, etc. Anyway, it's been about a week, but tonight, we're having a party and I was wondering about game playing? The last time we ran it in Torch Mode was for about an hour and half when we first got it (Dark Knight, 20 minutes of gaming, etc).


The screen is fine, no problems, no gaming since then, just full-screen TV or wide-screen movies (up from 16x9), and running if Slides and Scrolling to speed up the BI period.


For gaming sessions, though, how much time would you recommend? An hour at most? And what Pixel Shift 3-3-1 or more? And, can any damage be done by increasing the Shift rate? Tonight's a special occasion and it's going to be hard not play Rock Band or NHL 09.


Thanks!


----------



## dkl2001

I just purchased a Panny 50G15. I should be getting it a few days before I go out of town for a bit. Would I be ok to run the break-in slides on the tv for 150-200 hours straight before coming back to turn it off? Is this a risky move to leave it running while I'm not home? Has anyone done this and found the tv frozen upon return?


----------



## direwolf2009

Hi everyone,


So yesterday, with Contrast at 50 and Brightness between 45-50, we watched ET. A little dark, but I can live with that. I'll be glad when this BI period is over. Oh, yeah, my default Pixel Shift is 3-3-1 now. A little aggressive, but we play about 1 hour of video games a week... Rock Band...


Anyway, everything's great, and I've talked to some people here, really helpful, but I have a question...


When I quit ET last night, and it returned to the PS3 menu, I set it to run those slideshow images for BI period. I noticed a slight (faint) IR for the PS3 menu, a couple menu icons, etc, but I only noticed it being really close to the screen. After four images in the show, the IR was gone. The strange thing is, I've never noticed it before and we have been watching movies on the PS3 all week...


So, is some IR normal during the BI despite the above BI Picture settings?


This has made me a little nervous.


Thanks, everyone.

DW


----------



## nnarum23

.


----------



## captainbarred

Hey all, quick question, I just bought the Panasonic 50in plasma S1 which has an SD slot.


What type content is on the anti-burn in dvd? is it static colors? if so, can I setup a slide-show on an SD card to cycle through the same thing?


Oops... just searched the thread and found what I was looking for, I'm all set :thumb:


----------



## John Haghighi

200 hours, 48hrs burn-in patterns at Vivid, ISF calibration. 8 hrs since CNN was on for about 30 minutes, have serious IR, should I be concerned?


Pictures attached,

no pass=TV on after 8 hrs

first pass=Panasonic anti image white scroll bar

third pass=3rd try with Panasonic anti-image white scroll bar


This is my first Plasma, 3 yrs of LCoS SXRD still displays great picture, enlighten me Plasma folks, I've read this thread and have concerns should I just accept it?


(Pictures where taken w/ D300, room was very dark)


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Haghighi* /forum/post/17235725
> 
> 
> 200 hours, 48hrs burn-in patterns at Vivid, ISF calibration. 8 hrs since CNN was on for about 30 minutes, have serious IR, should I be concerned?
> 
> 
> Pictures attached,
> 
> no pass=TV on after 8 hrs
> 
> first pass=Panasonic anti image white scroll bar
> 
> third pass=3rd try with Panasonic anti-image white scroll bar
> 
> 
> This is my first Plasma, 3 yrs of LCoS SXRD still displays great picture, enlighten me Plasma folks, I've read this thread and have concerns should I just accept it?
> 
> 
> (Pictures where taken w/ D300, room was very dark)



Step one. No CNN for a while until this is gone.

Step two. What are your settings? They seem too high. And you might want to stretch the image to avoid the 4:3 bars.

Step three. I would watch a full screen channel with minimal logos for a few hours to clean that up.


That might be the worst I've ever seen IR. I can actually read the things that are still there


----------



## nweibley

Hold on, what is the metadata for those pictures?


Are those very long exposures with a wide aperture and decent ISO in pitch black? That looks like residual charge not IR.


Is it visible with something on the screen?


Edit: Looks like ISO 3200 w/ F/5.3 and 1s. That is a very dark screen... I think all you are seeing is residual charge/tiny IR.


----------



## John Haghighi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17235821
> 
> 
> Hold on, what is the metadata for those pictures?
> 
> 
> Are those very long exposures with a wide aperture and decent ISO in pitch black? That looks like residual charge not IR.
> 
> 
> Is it visible with something on the screen?
> 
> 
> Edit: Looks like ISO 3200 w/ F/5.3 and 1s. That is a very dark screen... I think all you are seeing is residual charge/tiny IR.



Wife took it, I don't know. At any rate, the picture accurately reflects what we saw.


----------



## John Haghighi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17235776
> 
> 
> Step one. No CNN for a while until this is gone.
> 
> Step two. What are your settings? They seem too high. And you might want to stretch the image to avoid the 4:3 bars.
> 
> Step three. I would watch a full screen channel with minimal logos for a few hours to clean that up.
> 
> 
> That might be the worst I've ever seen IR. I can actually read the things that are still there



Settings are Custom, ISF calibrated. D65


Watched Full screen since last post, now looking at IR has the D* Menu outlines.


Can I see this when watching, no I do not think so, but it really bugs me that when I switch to an empty input I have this IR from whatever I was watching last. Just want to know if this is normal for this latest gen of Plasma...


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Haghighi* /forum/post/17236101
> 
> 
> Settings are Custom, ISF calibrated. D65
> 
> 
> Watched Full screen since last post, now looking at IR has the D* Menu outlines.
> 
> 
> Can I see this when watching, no I do not think so, but it really bugs me that when I switch to an empty input I have this IR from whatever I was watching last. Just want to know if this is normal for this latest gen of Plasma...



By definition this is not IR. It's called residual phosphor charge and is completely normal and harmless to your TV and will cause absolutely no negative effects. In a sense (though it is slightly more complicated and not a direct analogue) think of it as the glow from a watch face after being exposed to the sun.


At any rate, as long as you can't see it from your viewing distance watching normal programming you are 100% fine and have done no damage to your TV.


----------



## Rche 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17236123
> 
> 
> By definition this is not IR. It's called residual phosphor charge and is completely normal and harmless to your TV and will cause absolutely no negative effects. In a sense (though it is slightly more complicated and not a direct analogue) think of it as the glow from a watch face after being exposed to the sun.
> 
> 
> At any rate, as long as you can't see it from your viewing distance watching normal programming you are 100% fine and have done no damage to your TV.



Does it stay or go away eventually? I'd be really annoyed with that


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rÿche 1* /forum/post/17236142
> 
> 
> Does it stay or go away eventually? I'd be really annoyed with that



It depends, but in most cases it changes drastically with just a few minutes of programming. If I am watching fullscreen TV there is virtually nothing visible (channel logos aside), if I pause on my PS3 XMB menu for a few minutes I can see that until I play something else. If I use the menu to fool with picture settings and then goto a black input I can read the letters of the menu when standing close to the TV, but they go away with about 1 minute of fullscreen material.


----------



## John Haghighi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17236178
> 
> 
> It depends, but in most cases it changes drastically with just a few minutes of programming. If I am watching fullscreen TV there is virtually nothing visible (channel logos aside), if I pause on my PS3 XMB menu for a few minutes I can see that until I play something else. If I use the menu to fool with picture settings and then goto a black input I can read the letters of the menu when standing close to the TV, but they go away with about 1 minute of fullscreen material.



Well 2 hours of the TV off and I can turn it on and still see the directv menu, even a very faint lighter area outline of what would be a blue box, this is disappointing, should have got the Kuro...but I will say I have not noticed it with regular watching, this is so far just a newbie Plasma owner surprised that this is acceptable for this generation of display.


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Haghighi* /forum/post/17236209
> 
> 
> Well 2 hours of the TV off and I can turn it on and still see the directv menu, even a very faint lighter area outline of what would be a blue box, this is disappointing, should have got the Kuro...but I will say I have not noticed it with regular watching, this is so far just a newbie Plasma owner surprised that this is acceptable for this generation of display.



Like I said the analogy is not comletely valid since, in effect, unlike the watch which "discharges" constantly, the TV only "discharges" when it is on.You may turn it off for 6 hours, see your PS3 menu and then watch something else for 1 minute, go back to the black screen and see nothing at all. It is harmless and you'll notice see it from your sitting position watching stuff.


----------



## John Haghighi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17236211
> 
> 
> Like I said the analogy is not comletely valid since, in effect, unlike the watch which "discharges" constantly, the TV only "discharges" when it is on.You may turn it off for 6 hours, see your PS3 menu and then watch something else for 1 minute, go back to the black screen and see nothing at all. It is harmless and you'll notice see it from your sitting position watching stuff.



So far that has not been my experience, but I will reserve judgement, every display technology seems to have its quirks, which ones you can live with is subjective...


----------



## JDM5LugHatch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17235776
> 
> 
> Step one. No CNN for a while until this is gone.
> 
> Step two. What are your settings? They seem too high. And you might want to stretch the image to avoid the 4:3 bars.
> 
> Step three. I would watch a full screen channel with minimal logos for a few hours to clean that up.
> 
> 
> That might be the worst I've ever seen IR. I can actually read the things that are still there



The only thing I would add would be set it to Pixel Force 1


----------



## n-iceman

Just a quick question..


I am running the envangelos break in slides off a SD card via Ps3 on my krp-500m with Dnice's recomended break in settings.


Im just curious if it matters that the ps3 is european but the krp is american , concerning Rgb and such. (w/ correct ps3 settings) The pictures should stay the same via the usb, right?


It's just that i feel the shades of each color changes so little with each picture and I feel the white could be a bit better. OR is it just paranoia to have everything perfect hehe.


But man am I happy with it. Can i expect the blackness improving after the 200 hours?


Thanks guys


----------



## tannor

Does anyone know if this Break In DVD could possibly fix a uneven wear I am getting on my 10 month old Samsung A450?


I did break in my TV originally when I first got it not with the DVD but made sure not to turn up the brightness and contrast for first 200 hours and not to leave anything on screen.


But now I am starting to get thin vertical lines on both sides of my TV and I tried the scroling that samsung has built in for 5 hours yesterday overnight and it did not fix it.


So my question is will this DVD burn in possibly fix it? Could it make things worst?


----------



## vkarthik

I was breaking in. When i went to check today afternoon seemed like it was stuck on white screen. Not sure how long it was stuck. . worst case 8 hours white screen. I didn't notice any issues when i played movies. Do i have to worry?


----------



## uniqueuserid

I would not, but it is my opinion – not a professional advice.

I ran a thumbdrive set of slides I got here for approximately 37 hours and then 5 minutes ago changed to my own set of pictures. My pictures incrementally go from 20 for all three colors to 255. So they are various shades of gray except the last one is white. The point is – any of these images wear all three phosphors evenly. I still have doubts about necessity of images with colors less than 80 (they are too dim).

Your white screen just burned all three of you colors simultaneously – I do not see any harm in that and that is probably why you did not notice any changes in your picture.


Now all you have to do is wait for someone who really knows what he is talking about to step in, explain why I am wrong and tell you to start worrying







.


----------



## nnarum23

After about 475 hours... I played a couple games of NCAA 09 and now the outline for the scoreboard is left over...


I can see it on white and dark screens while watching regular content... I'm going to try and run the scrolling bar a few times to clean it up...


----------



## vkarthik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uniqueuserid* /forum/post/17250487
> 
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is wait for someone who really knows what he is talking about to step in, explain why I am wrong and tell you to start worrying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .










Ya.. i have been painstakingly looking for issues since then. Other day i was watching Perfect storm. Suddenly the picture looked like there was some smoke. Then i found it was actually because everyone was smoking in the bar.

Jeez..


----------



## rreid66

The Panasonic TC-P65S1 manual suggests setting the sidebars to Bright to prevent panel image retention" with 4:3 images.


Should we be just as concerned about image retention of the black bars above and below letterboxed images on plasma TVs? Unlike the sidebars, I don't think there is any setting control for the horizontal upper and lower bars.


Pending calibration in mid October, I have already reduced color, picture, and brightness to 50% or less using the "cinema" setting, so given these lowered settings, perhaps image retention may not be that big of an issue.


I'd appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rreid66* /forum/post/17270349
> 
> 
> The Panasonic TC-P65S1 manual suggests setting the sidebars to Bright to prevent panel image retention" with 4:3 images.
> 
> 
> Should we be just as concerned about image retention of the black bars above and below letterboxed images on plasma TVs? Unlike the sidebars, I don't think there is any setting control for the horizontal upper and lower bars.
> 
> 
> Pending calibration in mid October, I have already reduced color, picture, and brightness to 50% or less using the "cinema" setting, so given these lowered settings, perhaps image retention may not be that big of an issue.
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate your thoughts.



Depends on your viewing habits, but if they are anything remotely considered 'normal' and your TV isn't 10 hours old you'll be fine dialing in settings above 50 and enjoying your TV. Don't sweat it, unless _all_ you do is watch 2.4:1 content every time you use the tv.


----------



## Pixelsworth

Does image-retention improve *significantly* after break-in?


For reference, I recently bought a Samsung PN50B540. I intend to use the set primarily for gaming with some movies and tv mixed in.


When playing a game, I notice that even when a bright static image (menu, HUD, etc) is displayed for as little as 30 seconds, a bright ghost-image is apparent when the picture switches to a dark scene.


For example, I might have the PS3 menu open for 1-2 minutes, then when I load a game or movie, a ghost of the menu will be clearly visible in the dark transitions.


I am not worried about burn-in, rather, I consider the bright after-images to be unacceptable even if they are temporary and don't damage the screen.



I've been running full-screen tv content and cycling the solid-color slideshow from a usb stick as a break-in routine.


Will the image retention improve with time or should I perhaps return this unit for an LCD? I love the picture and quality over-all, but I can't believe the average AV enthusiast would consider this degree of IR acceptable.



Thanks for the help and the great thread!


----------



## rjpinyou




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dkl2001* /forum/post/17211718
> 
> 
> I just purchased a Panny 50G15. I should be getting it a few days before I go out of town for a bit. Would I be ok to run the break-in slides on the tv for 150-200 hours straight before coming back to turn it off? Is this a risky move to leave it running while I'm not home? Has anyone done this and found the tv frozen upon return?



I was wondering the same thing...


Not that I am going out of town, but I would feel safer just doing it all at once.


anyone?


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pixelsworth* /forum/post/17274449
> 
> 
> Does image-retention improve *significantly* after break-in?
> 
> 
> For reference, I recently bought a Samsung PN50B540. I intend to use the set primarily for gaming with some movies and tv mixed in.
> 
> 
> When playing a game, I notice that even when a bright static image (menu, HUD, etc) is displayed for as little as 30 seconds, a bright ghost-image is apparent when the picture switches to a dark scene.
> 
> 
> For example, I might have the PS3 menu open for 1-2 minutes, then when I load a game or movie, a ghost of the menu will be clearly visible in the dark transitions.
> 
> 
> I am not worried about burn-in, rather, I consider the bright after-images to be unacceptable even if they are temporary and don't damage the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been running full-screen tv content and cycling the solid-color slideshow from a usb stick as a break-in routine.
> 
> 
> Will the image retention improve with time or should I perhaps return this unit for an LCD? I love the picture and quality over-all, but I can't believe the average AV enthusiast would consider this degree of IR acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help and the great thread!



This is not image retention but rather is harmless residual charge.


----------



## vkarthik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rjpinyou* /forum/post/17274741
> 
> 
> I was wondering the same thing...
> 
> 
> Not that I am going out of town, but I would feel safer just doing it all at once.
> 
> 
> anyone?



I think it probably happened to me. Not very sure how long it was stuck. Probably it could be my mistake . It was all white. I may have accidentally pressed pause button on the bed or whatever. It was stuck. Still not 100% sure. But i have no issues. I have finishede 120 hours. Since the slides have same color it is supposed to age evenly.


----------



## Pixelsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17274827
> 
> 
> This is not image retention but rather is harmless residual charge.



All right, I'm a little fuzzy on the established terminology perhaps. Anyhow, my latest experience is this: After playing a game for 20-30 minutes, a static image from the game remains on the screen (ghostly-white, but sharply defined). It remains clearly visible at proper viewing distance when switching to other full-screen colored content, but eventually dissipates. I assume that this is "IR" (as opposed to burn-in or residual charge).


Should I expect this to improve after I have, say, 200 hours on the TV, or is this simply an issue with plasma displays that most viewers are willing to live with?


----------



## vkarthik

I just found a list of 1:85:1 movies on imdb to fill my screen. Any of these DVDs can be played during break-in without worrying about black bars.

http://www.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/As...ios/1.85_:_1/A


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pixelsworth* /forum/post/17275817
> 
> 
> All right, I'm a little fuzzy on the established terminology perhaps. Anyhow, my latest experience is this: After playing a game for 20-30 minutes, a static image from the game remains on the screen (ghostly-white, but sharply defined). It remains clearly visible at proper viewing distance when switching to other full-screen colored content, but eventually dissipates. I assume that this is "IR" (as opposed to burn-in or residual charge).
> 
> 
> Should I expect this to improve after I have, say, 200 hours on the TV, or is this simply an issue with plasma displays that most viewers are willing to live with?



Yes, _that_ is IR and yes it will improve significantly as your panel ages.


----------



## nweibley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkarthik* /forum/post/17276561
> 
> 
> I just found a list of 1:85:1 movies on imdb to fill my screen. Any of these DVDs can be played during break-in without worrying about black bars.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/As...ios/1.85_:_1/A



Actually 1.85:1 movies do have small black bars. 16/9=1.777 thus 1.78:1 is what you want


----------



## vkarthik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nweibley* /forum/post/17277230
> 
> 
> Actually 1.85:1 movies do have small black bars. 16/9=1.777 thus 1.78:1 is what you want



Are you sure. I tested series of movies which we had. Fried green tomatoes i think filled the screen. If you look at the list you can see Fried green tomatoes in this list. I'll try others and let you know.


----------



## Larhalt

hi ive been doing some research on the panasonic plasma 50S1 model.. i was wondering hows the image retention after the break in period? and oes it have other issues i have to be aware of?


im planning to use it mainly as a gaming tv with my PS3... i really wanna get this tv but the IR issues kinda scare me










thanks


----------



## hanabi

noob here but I don't really have time to go every post. So I will really appreciate if you could share me some of your knowledge..


I just bought a panasonic plasma 42x1


If I decide not to do the break in process.


Can I set the picture setting to whatever I like?

How long will the break in period end if I decided not to do any break in test?


How did you open the service offset menu?

I tried press and hold down volume button and press three times info but nothing happened.


appreciate thanks


and what's your picture calibration setting when u r watching the tv during the break in period.


----------



## Omni009

I have a question. I'm (hopefully) soon to purchase a Panasonic plasma. I've read all about burn in and IR and how the problem has been been addressed and the tech has gotten a lot better.


My issue is this. When I or my fiance leave for work during the day, we usually leave the tv on for our animals (dog and a bird). Now I can count on one hand the number of times this has actually happened, but a few times we would leave it on, say, cartoon network for example and come home to find that the channel has glitched and the image has stopped moving. Longest stretch to figure we could both be gone for is about 10 hours. If that happened while we were gone and that image stayed up there for that long, is it now a burned in plasma, or just a really bad case of IR that would eventually go away?


Also I'm a big time gamer (ps3). I play a lot of Madden and I know that one's famous for IR. Any serious problems with this or other games even after extended 6-7 hour gaming sessions?


----------



## iVersatile




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Omni009* /forum/post/17284582
> 
> 
> I have a question. I'm (hopefully) soon to purchase a Panasonic plasma. I've read all about burn in and IR and how the problem has been been addressed and the tech has gotten a lot better.
> 
> 
> My issue is this. When I or my fiance leave for work during the day, we usually leave the tv on for our animals (dog and a bird). Now I can count on one hand the number of times this has actually happened, but a few times we would leave it on, say, cartoon network for example and come home to find that the channel has glitched and the image has stopped moving. Longest stretch to figure we could both be gone for is about 10 hours. If that happened while we were gone and that image stayed up there for that long, is it now a burned in plasma, or just a really bad case of IR that would eventually go away?
> 
> 
> Also I'm a big time gamer (ps3). I play a lot of Madden and I know that one's famous for IR. Any serious problems with this or other games even after extended 6-7 hour gaming sessions?



I own a Panasonic G10 plasma, i mainly use it for gaming but i do switch it up and watch TV programming and Movies from time to time. Well, yesterday i played Halo 3 for about 3-4 hours and when i was done i did notice a bit of Image Retention of the HUD but about two hours of regular TV watching washed it away completely.


What i do when i finish long gaming sessions sometimes is switch the TV to a no signal screen where it shows a white snowy screen, leave it there and set the timer to turn off after 15-20 mins and it usually washes away most IR or residual charge.


----------



## vkarthik

I was watching a movie yesterday. Half way through i slept off. After the movie was over it reverted to Main Menu. There was a repetitive sequence. Few things on the screen were retained.I just ran the scroll bar once. It washed away completely.


----------



## BK1234

i went to evangelos site and downloaded the iso setup.exe and burned it to my cd, can any one tell me what to do next, should i run this exe file: i tried running it and it said some thing about my configuration of pc being altered..

How do i get it to an SD card...

Do i need to unzip it.., will this cd run on my dvd player, or should I hook up my laptop.

Totally confused..please help


----------



## vkarthik

Anyone has experienced IR when we use subtitle? Mine is 150 hours old. I am little hesitant to use subtitle at this point.


----------



## vkarthik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BK1234* /forum/post/17287062
> 
> 
> i went to evangelos site and downloaded the iso setup.exe and burned it to my cd, can any one tell me what to do next, should i run this exe file: i tried running it and it said some thing about my configuration of pc being altered..
> 
> How do i get it to an SD card...
> 
> Do i need to unzip it.., will this cd run on my dvd player, or should I hook up my laptop.
> 
> Totally confused..please help



I think you have to run slide show. Not sure. I used DVd to run the slides.


----------



## hanano17

On my PN50B860, I decided to watch a movie on dvd, the set was only a few days old with me running break in slides 8 hours a day. It was only about 90m long, but I noticed IR for the top and bottom bars (and another below the top bar for some odd reason?) were still there even after running break in slides for a few days, 5-8 hours off and on. They are vague, can't really see them unless you look for them and even less noticable unless the break in slides are on the white/grey picture. I'm sure you would never see them watching normal tv/movies. I guess my question is, is it burn in at this point or will more usage make it go away completely or am I just imagning lines?


I know I probably should have waited longer to watch a dvd with bars, but this is a replacement set and my first set I watched a blu ray movie and the bars went away after a few minutes of running the slides. That set at the time was probably only 10-15 hours ahead of this set. I also played xbox on it after I realized it was getting replaced, and any IR from that went away immediatly as well.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hanano17* /forum/post/17294928
> 
> 
> On my PN50B860, I decided to watch a movie on dvd, the set was only a few days old with me running break in slides 8 hours a day. It was only about 90m long, but I noticed IR for the top and bottom bars (and another below the top bar for some odd reason?) were still there even after running break in slides for a few days, 5-8 hours off and on. They are vague, can't really see them unless you look for them and even less noticable unless the break in slides are on the white/grey picture. I'm sure you would never see them watching normal tv/movies. I guess my question is, is it burn in at this point or will more usage make it go away completely or am I just imagning lines?
> 
> 
> I know I probably should have waited longer to watch a dvd with bars, but this is a replacement set and my first set I watched a blu ray movie and the bars went away after a few minutes of running the slides. That set at the time was probably only 10-15 hours ahead of this set. I also played xbox on it after I realized it was getting replaced, and any IR from that went away immediatly as well.



Temporary image retention...I think you are being a bit too worried about burn-in to the point where you are looking for anything that may resemble it...it's not going to happen unless you leave static images for days or even weeks at a time.


----------



## irjs

I have about 150 hours on my Pioneer Pro 141. I've done the usual break in routine of turning down the brightness and contrast and avoiding static images. I am getting the set calibrated shortly so the brightness and contrast will be turned back up to a normal level. My question has to do with the scoreboards on all the sports broadcasts. I watch a lot of sports and so far I've been zooming the picture for most of the game to keep the scoreboard off the screen.


Now that I'm up to about 150 hours, how much do you think I can show the scoreboard? Is it safe to keep it showing most of the time, or should I still zoom for a while? Since the scoreboard of course doesn't show during commercials, is that enough time inbetween the static image that I don't need to worry about zooming at all during the game?


----------



## ricky_rocket




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irjs* /forum/post/17296077
> 
> 
> I have about 150 hours on my Pioneer Pro 141. I've done the usual break in routine of turning down the brightness and contrast and avoiding static images. I am getting the set calibrated shortly so the brightness and contrast will be turned back up to a normal level. My question has to do with the scoreboards on all the sports broadcasts. I watch a lot of sports and so far I've been zooming the picture for most of the game to keep the scoreboard off the screen.
> 
> 
> Now that I'm up to about 150 hours, how much do you think I can show the scoreboard? Is it safe to keep it showing most of the time, or should I still zoom for a while? Since the scoreboard of course doesn't show during commercials, is that enough time inbetween the static image that I don't need to worry about zooming at all during the game?



I wouldn't zoom in to avoid the scoreboards. You have to enjoy the TV. The key is *varied use*. So just don't leave it on ESPN 24 X 7. Watch a movie or a regular TV show afterward.


----------



## p9142

I'm really starting to get bummed out about my decision to go with a plasma. I bought the Panasonic P50S1 and have been shocked at the amount of IR. I ran the slides for 200 hours, and currently have about 300 hours on the set. I had read previously that this was no longer an issue with current generation plasmas, but that is certainly contrary to my experience.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *p9142* /forum/post/17296849
> 
> 
> I'm really starting to get bummed out about my decision to go with a plasma. I bought the Panasonic P50S1 and have been shocked at the amount of IR. I ran the slides for 200 hours, and currently have about 300 hours on the set. I had read previously that this was no longer an issue with current generation plasmas, but that is certainly contrary to my experience.



Exactly what kind of content are you watching that is causing the IR?


Is it black-bar IR, or game HUD IR, or station logo IR, etc?


How much do you watch this IR content compared to watching full-screen content?


What do you have up on the screen when you see this IR?


What do you have your Contrast setting set at?


Go into some detail about your IR situation because neither my G10 nor two S1s i have access to retain IR for more than a few to several seconds before disappearing.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Omni009* /forum/post/17284582
> 
> 
> When I or my fiance leave for work during the day, we usually leave the tv on for our animals (dog and a bird).



I read a few studies about ten years ago on the effects of leaving a TV or Radio on for pets while you're away, they basically determined that cats and dogs didn't need the video of a TV at all, but gentle music and calm voices reduced anxiety just like with humans, and left pets more relaxed. Harp music was found to work best, and classical music yielded similar results but to a lesser extend. Leaving the TV on had no real effect, and talk radio tended to agitate them a bit compared to soft music. Some pet hospitals found that soft harp or classical music aided in recovery from illness, injury, and surgery.


I would liken TV shows to sound more like talk radio to a pet so i wouldn't use the TV as a pet babysitter at all. You should consider playing a harp music or classical music CD on a portable CD player for your pets instead of wasting a lot of electricity and needlessly putting hours on your plasma panel, or just tune a radio to a classical station and leave that on for them. And you could place it in the area where they like to relax the most. They really don't need to have a TV on, and gentle music works better anyway.




> Quote:
> Now I can count on one hand the number of times this has actually happened, but a few times we would leave it on, say, cartoon network for example and come home to find that the channel has glitched and the image has stopped moving. Longest stretch to figure we could both be gone for is about 10 hours. If that happened while we were gone and that image stayed up there for that long, is it now a burned in plasma, or just a really bad case of IR that would eventually go away?



That would just be IR and it would go away fairly quickly. Burn-In is basically super-persistent IR that never gets washed away and ultimately becomes permanent. It would take months or even years to reach the point of being Burn-In.



> Quote:
> Also I'm a big time gamer (ps3). I play a lot of Madden and I know that one's famous for IR. Any serious problems with this or other games even after extended 6-7 hour gaming sessions?



Tons of people here game for hours on their plasmas and report no long term ill effects, but you do have to balance out the gaming sessions with even more hours of full screen TV watching to wash away the IR and keep the screen somewhat evenly exercised. Some games are no IR-offensive than others, but if you don't get abusive with the game-vs-TV watching ratio the IR will be minimal and the screen won't get Burned-In.


----------



## p9142




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RandyWalters* /forum/post/17297203
> 
> 
> Exactly what kind of content are you watching that is causing the IR?
> 
> 
> Is it black-bar IR, or game HUD IR, or station logo IR, etc?
> 
> 
> How much do you watch this IR content compared to watching full-screen content?
> 
> 
> What do you have up on the screen when you see this IR?
> 
> 
> What do you have your Contrast setting set at?
> 
> 
> Go into some detail about your IR situation because neither my G10 nor two S1s i have access to retain IR for more than a few to several seconds before disappearing.



My contrast is set to 50. On Saturday, I usually watch ESPN most of the day. The scoreboard at the top of the screen is retained. For example, this morning I could see the scoreboard with Oklahoma and Miami when the screen was on a black source. I tried using the white bar method for a couple minutes, but it was still there. A couple hours of SD card images took care of it, but I didn't think that my TV would require maintenance.


From what I read, I thought that these were issues of the past generation displays, but I didn't check this site soon enough. The picture quality on my set is great, but it is definitely not worth the headaches of breaking it in and then dealing with having to balance out what I am watching, using SD slideshows, avoid certain games, etc.


Some complain that the plasma screen uses more electricity than an LCD, but that is really magnified by the fact that you have to spend 200 hours breaking it in and then running wasteful anti-burn in images to keep the screen from burning in. The power differential is much more that just the difference under normal use, which is significant already.


----------



## nnarum23

From my understanding though, and I may be wrong, but if you're only seeing it on a blank source screen that it is just IR. Burn in would be visible through regular viewing.


Is that correct Randy?


----------



## p9142




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17298463
> 
> 
> From my understanding though, and I may be wrong, but if you're only seeing it on a blank source screen that it is just IR. Burn in would be visible through regular viewing.
> 
> 
> Is that correct Randy?



I am not concerned about Burn In. Like I stated, it went away after a couple hours of viewing slides. What I am concerned about it having to waste time and electricity to "maintain" my television. I was not aware that these issues still existed for current generation plasma displays.


I would return the display, but Sears charges a 15% restocking fee, and it is a huge hassle to box this thing up and take it into the store.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *p9142* /forum/post/17299107
> 
> 
> I am not concerned about Burn In. Like I stated, it went away after a couple hours of viewing slides. What I am concerned about it having to waste time and electricity to "maintain" my television. I was not aware that these issues still existed for current generation plasma displays.
> 
> 
> I would return the display, but Sears charges a 15% restocking fee, and it is a huge hassle to box this thing up and take it into the store.



Which is why I added that if you don't notice it during regular viewing, why worry? I'm not an expert on this stuff, but if it's not affecting your regular viewing, what's the fuss?


----------



## bonddaddy

Hello. Great forum. I need some help.

I purchased the G15 last week and decided to run the break in dvd.

Long story short ,ended up buying the dvd burn in and ran it tonight on my

new LG 390. The 1st time through everything was fine...slide show of differing colors. I have since noticed that the dvd locks up at the 00.59 second mark. If I hit skip (next chapter) runs for a bit, but then again locks up...plain white screen....? What am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions or solutions greatly appreciated.

Thx.

btw: same thing was happening when I used the download version...figured I was doing something wrong when downloading so I bought the dvd.


----------



## Guy Hollywood

So my Panny 50V10 is expected on Thursday. I am most likely going to run the break in slides, but didn't know if it was better to use the DVD or SD card method? Or if it matters either way? And would it be OK to run the slides all day while at work? Overnight is not really an option as the set will be in my bedroom and I'm not going to leave the slides on while trying to sleep.


----------



## Anubys




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guy Hollywood* /forum/post/17306010
> 
> 
> So my Panny 50V10 is expected on Thursday. I am most likely going to run the break in slides, but didn't know if it was better to use the DVD or SD card method? Or if it matters either way? And would it be OK to run the slides all day while at work? Overnight is not really an option as the set will be in my bedroom and I'm not going to leave the slides on while trying to sleep.



I think the worry is that the slide would stop on one image while you're at work and have no way to know about it and fix it...


----------



## Pixelsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RandyWalters* /forum/post/17297203
> 
> 
> 
> Go into some detail about your IR situation because neither my G10 nor two S1s i have access to retain IR for more than a few to several seconds before disappearing.




Really? Does this apply to game HUDs/sport scoreboards that have been on for 20-30+ minutes?


My Samsung PN50B540 retains bright static images that have been displayed for less than 5 minutes, and before long the IR is visible through other colored content and extremely visible against a black background.


Like others in this thread, I'm not worried about burn-in; I can "wash away" the IR by displaying other fullscreen content for 10-20 mins. Rather, this is a quality of viewing issue.


At this point, I plan to switch to LCD, since gaming is one of my main uses for the TV. It's a shame, because the picture and everythign else about this TV is great. But the IR can really mess up the experience and make me feel like i'm using some primitive untested technology, rather than a late-generation Plasma.


----------



## bonddaddy

bump


Hello. Great forum. I need some help.

I purchased the G15 last week and decided to run the break in dvd.

Long story short ,ended up buying the dvd burn in and ran it tonight on my

new LG 390. The 1st time through everything was fine...slide show of differing colors. I have since noticed that the dvd locks up at the 00.59 second mark. If I hit skip (next chapter) runs for a bit, but then again locks up...plain white screen....? What am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions or solutions greatly appreciated.

Thx.

btw: same thing was happening when I used the download version...figured I was doing something wrong when downloading so I bought the dvd.


----------



## RY35AN

I just purchased the Samsung PN50B550 and have been watching full screen HD. I've set the contrast at 50 and brightness at 50. I did a little gaming..and then I saw the IR. It went away after watching some HD for a few minutes. Will the IR eventually stop appearing after 100-200 hours? I know that the TV is more susceptible to IR during he first 100 or so hours so when I saw the IR it didn't really bother me (I kind of expected it, but knew it would go away) I'm just wondering if this will always be an issue?


I know..I know..IR has been covered, I was just wondering if it's _always_ an issue? After seeing the PQ on this set compared to the LCD's I tried the plasma wins hands down. I really want to keep this TV!


----------



## hanano17

I don't think you can completely eliminate IR. It may not happen as 'easily', but I'd say it will pop up now and again at the very least.


----------



## Pixelsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RY35AN* /forum/post/17310757
> 
> 
> I know..I know..IR has been covered, I was just wondering if it's _always_ an issue?



I am currently evaluating the Samsung pn50b540, and IR from gaming seems to be a major issue on this set. I may exchange it for an LCD, but I really would like this set to work since it looks great, esp with Bluray movies.


I'm not sure if the IR will become less of an issue, but I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## RY35AN

If the IR comes and go's after gaming, even though it's wiped away will it cause burn-in after a while? The same image would be coming and going is what I'm trying to say.


----------



## rjpinyou

this is probably in this thread already but I didn't want to look through page after page, and I tried the search.


I am breaking in a TCP50S1...and all the reds/green slides look exactly the same. I can't tell the difference when it switches to a new slide by the color, but I see the screen flash so that's how I know it went to a new slide. Are the colors supposed to look so similar?


----------



## hanano17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RY35AN* /forum/post/17311330
> 
> 
> If the IR comes and go's after gaming, even though it's wiped away will it cause burn-in after a while? The same image would be coming and going is what I'm trying to say.



I don't think so. My brother has been gaming on his panasonic plasma for 2-3 years and doesn't have an issue. I'm a recent plasma owner, so I can't give a personal experience.


----------



## hanano17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rjpinyou* /forum/post/17311345
> 
> 
> this is probably in this thread already but I didn't want to look through page after page, and I tried the search.
> 
> 
> I am breaking in a TCP50S1...and all the reds/green slides look exactly the same. I can't tell the difference when it switches to a new slide by the color, but I see the screen flash so that's how I know it went to a new slide. Are the colors supposed to look so similar?



The colors are supposed to be similar, they are different shades though. If you are concerned with not being able to tell the difference, there's a different set of break in slides that uses 70-120 images. They are more noticable, I doubt either one is better than the other though.


Here's the thread about it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107017


----------



## rjpinyou

thanks for the quick reply


----------



## louc

I have a Panasonic G15 hooked up to non-HD satellite connection. I notice that FOX News and some advertisements are broadcast in a horizontal stretched pattern that leaves a black area at the top and bottom of the screen. I can get rid of the blank areas by going to ZOOM aspect ratio which stretches the pattern, but this makes the picture distorted and requires a return to another aspect ratio setting when switching to another channel. Does this Fox News format cause a burn-in if viewed for long periods in other than ZOOM aspect ratio?


----------



## snib_rock

My krp-500 gets here next week. Since it comes from the factory with a 50 hour break in...does that mean I only need to run a disc for 50 more for a full break?


----------



## videonut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *louc* /forum/post/17311898
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic G15 hooked up to non-HD satellite connection. I notice that FOX News and some advertisements are broadcast in a horizontal stretched pattern that leaves a black area at the top and bottom of the screen. I can get rid of the blank areas by going to ZOOM aspect ratio which stretches the pattern, but this makes the picture distorted and requires a return to another aspect ratio setting when switching to another channel. Does this Fox News format cause a burn-in if viewed for long periods in other than ZOOM aspect ratio?




I'd also recently purchased a 58" Panny Plasma, and was wondering the same thing about Fox and other wide-screen scenarios.


I've been using the zoom feature and am keeping the contrast/brightness levels around 50 for the first 200 hours. I've also ordered the slide-show DVD and will run that as instructed.


I really do love the picture that I'm seeing on this Plasma set, but If I can't enjoy my programming on a normal basis after this break-in period, I'll get rid of the set and go back to LCD/LED.


----------



## roztom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *videonut* /forum/post/17330543
> 
> 
> I'd also recently purchased a 58" Panny Plasma, and was wondering the same thing about Fox and other wide-screen scenarios.
> 
> 
> I've been using the zoom feature and am keeping the contrast/brightness levels around 50 for the first 200 hours. I've also ordered the slide-show DVD and will run that as instructed.
> 
> 
> I really do love the picture that I'm seeing on this Plasma set, but If I can't enjoy my programming on a normal basis after this break-in period, I'll get rid of the set and go back to LCD/LED.



MY experience after the 200 hour break-in on a Panny 50S14 is no burn-in/IR. I watch Fox as well as a lot of financial stations with the ticker/crawl lines on for hours at a time. I have not noticed anything. However, I was very careful for the first 200 hrs, ran the slides as recommended and kept my brightness around 50% during TV watching and Zoomed when necessary also.


MY set resizes the screen as I switch channels, maybe it is your format setting that needs a change- not sure. However on Fox, mine has the HD side-bars also.. currently I leave it, no problem - so far.


HAs anybody else had a problem with this after break-in?


Tom


----------



## fourtytwoinch

the way to see slight image retention is on a black screen looking very close. If you watch espn a lot you will get espn logo and the 'white-line' part above the scrolling bar.


----------



## videonut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roztom* /forum/post/17330812
> 
> 
> MY experience after the 200 hour break-in on a Panny 50S14 is no burn-in/IR.
> 
> Tom



That sounds promising. I really enjoy the picture quality on this set and would really hate getting rid of it.

Thanks for your input!

Peter M


----------



## nnarum23

Found this interesting tidbit.

http://www.plasmadisplaycoalition.or...ge_cycle_3.php 



> Quote:
> Cycle 3 Test
> 
> 
> A static 16x9 image from Fox News Channel was connected to each plasma TV through its component YPbPr input. This pattern contained three faces, white and yellow text, and a bright, stationary Fox News logo. It was left on the screen for a period of eight hours. (This test involved observations only, and no measurements.)
> 
> Cycle 3 Results
> 
> 
> At the end of the eight-hour test cycle, two of the plasma TVs showed no ghost images from the Fox News still frame. The ghost image was evident on two more test plasma TVs only after detailed inspection and would not have been seen by the casual observer. The ghost image was quite visible, along with ghost images of the previous checkerboard and color bar tests, on the fifth plasma TV.




http://www.plasmadisplaycoalition.or.../retention.php 


> Quote:
> * Only one model of all those tested showed any easily-seen evidence of image retention when operated in standard viewing modes for 3 consecutive 8-hour periods displaying contrast, color bar and static TV images. A second model showed a mild ghost image that was discernable after a 24-hour shutdown period. The remaining 3 plasma TVs had little or no evidence of any ghost images after the 24-hour static image test. From this test, image retention appears not to be caused by phosphor burn-in.
> 
> 
> Rather, it appears to be an accumulated electrical charge within pixel walls. A full white image was displayed for a few hours on the two plasma TVs that showed residual images. The ghosting disappeared completely, apparently clearing the electrical build-up within the pixel walls. Had the ghosting been the result of phosphor aging, the full-white screen procedure would not have been enough to remedy the residual image retention.



Not sure how legitimate these tests are, but hopefully it helps ease some worries.


----------



## direwolf2009

Hi everyone


My Samsung PN42B450 just completed its 107th hour of break-in. Do you think it would be okay to adjust settings to normal viewing? Thanks!


----------



## jontyrees

Unfortunately I have to report that I now have two vertical rectangles on either side of my Panasonic plasma (PC50-something-or-other) that are slightly brighter than the middle section of the screen. It's a result of watching too much SD not in stretch mode. I thought it would be ok, since I've had it for about 2 yrs, and it was very well worn-in with no burn-in at all. I only started to notice it about a month or two ago. I guess the plasma loses brightness as it ages, and the center section saw more use than the sides, which were black when viewing SD broadcasts. Hopefully, the center catches up as the loss of brightness slows, while the loss continues apace on the sides. It's kind of disturbing that the plasma screen noticeably loses brightness over time.


It's making me look at LCDs for the bedroom set I'm about to buy. There are killer deals to be had on Panasonic 720P 42" plasmas right now though. Basically the same as my 50", which I love other than the damn bands on the sides.


----------



## videonut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jontyrees* /forum/post/17348889
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I have to report that I now have two vertical rectangles on either side of my Panasonic plasma (PC50-something-or-other) that are slightly brighter than the middle section of the screen. It's a result of watching too much SD not in stretch mode. I thought it would be ok, since I've had it for about 2 yrs, and it was very well worn-in with no burn-in at all. I only started to notice it about a month or two ago. I guess the plasma loses brightness as it ages, and the center section saw more use than the sides, which were black when viewing SD broadcasts. Hopefully, the center catches up as the loss of brightness slows, while the loss continues apace on the sides. It's kind of disturbing that the plasma screen noticeably loses brightness over time.



This is probably why the newer Panasonic Plasma sets will only allow white sidebars when watching full-screen presentations.


----------



## mojangles

Hello Everyone!


I am new to the forum and this is my first post.


Just wanted to let you all know that I've had my new 50" Samsung plasma for a week now and have been using the break-in DVD every night for 8-10 hours. In addition, I've being watching an hour to two hours of Blu-Ray or DVD movies stretched to fill the whole screen. I've reduced the contrast to 45 (less than half of the full 100).


All in all, very pleased thus far and have been able to deal with the somewhat bloated picture with having to zoom the picture. Don't even notice half the time until text appears on the screen and runs a bit off the screen.


I'm planning on running the Break-In DVD for another couple of weeks until I reach a minimum of 200 hours of break-in. A big thanks to Evangelo2 for the great DVD, it's working flawlessly!


----------



## -Fluffy65-

I picked up a Panasonic 58S1 on Sunday, and have been careful so far with what I'm displaying on it. Full 1.85:1 picture only, and little to no static imagery. I just loaded the 120 color slides onto a SD card, inserted it into the TV, and it ran through the slide show in about 10 minutes. At this point, I've got about 25-30 hours on it. I think I'm doing good enough on break-in procedures, right?


----------



## JonW747




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jontyrees* /forum/post/17348889
> 
> 
> It's kind of disturbing that the plasma screen noticeably loses brightness over time.
> 
> 
> It's making me look at LCDs for the bedroom set I'm about to buy. There are killer deals to be had on Panasonic 720P 42" plasmas right now though. Basically the same as my 50", which I love other than the damn bands on the sides.



Losing brightness over time is unfortunate, but the only alternative to that at the moment is to eventually lose all brightness as the back light of an LCD TV will eventually just burn out.


An LCD may be too bright for a bedroom, especially since bright light is a trigger for wakefullness. Something to consider ...


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jontyrees* /forum/post/17348889
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I have to report that I now have two vertical rectangles on either side of my Panasonic plasma (PC50-something-or-other) that are slightly brighter than the middle section of the screen. It's a result of watching too much SD not in stretch mode. I thought it would be ok, since I've had it for about 2 yrs, and it was very well worn-in with no burn-in at all. I only started to notice it about a month or two ago. I guess the plasma loses brightness as it ages, and the center section saw more use than the sides, which were black when viewing SD broadcasts. Hopefully, the center catches up as the loss of brightness slows, while the loss continues apace on the sides. It's kind of disturbing that the plasma screen noticeably loses brightness over time.
> 
> 
> It's making me look at LCDs for the bedroom set I'm about to buy. There are killer deals to be had on Panasonic 720P 42" plasmas right now though. Basically the same as my 50", which I love other than the damn bands on the sides.



If your Panny is losing brightness after two years something is wrong with it, this is not the norm. I have a 3.5 year old Panasonic plasma and the picture is better than it was when new. It has not faded a bit, I have it set on a tweaked cinema setting, anything else is too bright in a moderately lit room. I bought a new Panny plasma a year ago and the old one was moved to the spare room where I just use the QAM tuner so there it's used about 50% for SD with sidebars and I haven't noticed any image retention or burn-in.


----------



## Anubys




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *-Fluffy65-* /forum/post/17351482
> 
> 
> I picked up a Panasonic 58S1 on Sunday, and have been careful so far with what I'm displaying on it. Full 1.85:1 picture only, and little to no static imagery. I just loaded the 120 color slides onto a SD card, inserted it into the TV, and it ran through the slide show in about 10 minutes. At this point, I've got about 25-30 hours on it. I think I'm doing good enough on break-in procedures, right?



yes...you need to get up to 120 hours with the break in slides and you're all set...


----------



## -Fluffy65-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anubys* /forum/post/17352005
> 
> 
> yes...you need to get up to 120 hours with the break in slides and you're all set...



120 hours running just the color slides? I can do that. What I meant in my first post is that the TV itself had about 30 hours total, and I ran the color slides for the first time last night for about ten minutes. I've been watching some movies and TV shows, but only on full screen (no bars), and standard "out of the box" picture settings, with contrast down to about 60%.


I'm at school right now, but left the TV running the slides when I left this morning, and by the time I get back it'll be another 6 hours on the TV, of just the color slides.


----------



## jontyrees




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/17351892
> 
> 
> If your Panny is losing brightness after two years something is wrong with it, this is not the norm. I have a 3.5 year old Panasonic plasma and the picture is better than it was when new. It has not faded a bit, I have it set on a tweaked cinema setting, anything else is too bright in a moderately lit room. I bought a new Panny plasma a year ago and the old one was moved to the spare room where I just use the QAM tuner so there it's used about 50% for SD with sidebars and I haven't noticed any image retention or burn-in.



It's definitely losing a little brightness in the 4:3 middle section of the panel. It wouldn't be discernable if it weren't that the sides, where the black bars are when watching 4:3, are fractionally brighter. You can't even tell unless it's a uniform color across both the less and more bright parts, eg a football field, or maybe a blue sky. I guarantee the rest of my family hasn't noticed it, but it's definitely there.







My guess is that it'll lose more brightness in the early part of it's life than the later, kinds like depreciation on a car. A one year old car is worth a lot less than a new one, but a 4 yr old car isn't worth a whole lot less than a 3 yr old. I hope.


----------



## dlplover

Take a look at this and see if it helps: http://www.jscreenfix.com/deluxe.php 


And for the future, turn the brightness down. I know DNICE's reference settings for Panasonics tend to be high, but it's OK to do something different than his settings. Turn the brightness down to about 50-65% and you really shouldn't have as much issue with IR/burn-in. On both Plasma and LCD (yes they can get it too, just takes longer) IR/burn-in are primarily linked to running the display too bright. The one other possibility (which doesn't appear to be the case here) is for electric charge to build-up, which needs to be evened out. I supposed it's possible that if that charge is nevered "evened out" and is allowed to stay for a long period of time it could potentially lead to burn-in as well.


Anyway, try out that prog and see if it helps. Hopefully it's still fixable.


----------



## CatiRo

i just got a samsung 50 (PN50B550T2F) and i love it. I have hd programming from dishnetwork so everything i watch normally feel the screen. i have notice image retention on channels like espn or sd channels with the black bars on the side. after i change the channel to something else it seems to go away. is that normal?


----------



## CatiRo

also i notice that i have my picture set for standard and i turned on energy saver (medium) and that cause the screen to go dimmer and lose brightness. would that suffice to changing the brightness on the display?


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CatiRo* /forum/post/17360363
> 
> 
> also i notice that i have my picture set for standard and i turned on energy saver (medium) and that cause the screen to go dimmer and lose brightness. would that suffice to changing the brightness on the display?



It's always going to lose brightness when you switch to energy saver. What you need to do is take a camera at night with the lights off, on a tripod and take a picture of it both with content and solid colors. Keep that for reference and write down the settings you used for the photos. Do the same after some time's gone by and see if they come out the same or if it's dimmer than your current photos. The other thing you could do is get a very expensive colorimeter/black-level meter to measure exactly what it is now and see how it is several months from now.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CatiRo* /forum/post/17360337
> 
> 
> i just got a samsung 50 (PN50B550T2F) and i love it. I have hd programming from dishnetwork so everything i watch normally feel the screen. i have notice image retention on channels like espn or sd channels with the black bars on the side. after i change the channel to something else it seems to go away. is that normal?



Yes, it's normal. You will get image retention but it usually goes away within seconds after changing to programming that fills the screen.


----------



## kentpowley

This question is mostly for Evangelo2, but also for anyone else who may have done this.


Instead of running a DVD that cycles through the color screens, and instead of placing the color slides on a USB drive and letting the TV do a slideshow - has anyone used those color slides to create an AVI (or mpeg) file, that could be run on your tv - to cycle through the color slides ?


To me this would be ideal, as it would not freeze up like a dvd possibly could.

Also, if you have a Kuro, there is a 6 second delay between each slide - which is not an efficient use of "screen time" for the color slides.

I know my tv can play .avi movie files, though - and this would work great.


I just wonder if anyone has used Evangelo2's color slides and made a movie file out of them as a 3rd option for performing the break-in.


----------



## OmegaR3D

I've had my Samsung PN42B450 for a few weeks but only used it for about 20 hours mostly at low settings. I want to fully break in the tv this week and I have a question that google was unable to answer:

*Can I safely break in the tv with torch mode settings if I am using Color slides DVD on a loop for 8-10 hours at a time?* Won't this speed up the break in period?


----------



## Iron_Clad

Sorry if this has been asked,


I'm trying to use Evangelo's break in DVD. The DVD appears to scroll through fine with the exception of certain colours exhibiting a certain kind of pattern (possibly noise?) while others appear fine. I'm using an old low end DVD player hooked up to a Pro-101 via component. Is this normal?


----------



## VeNoMiZeD

Can't wait to get this over with.


----------



## chocho111

Just started the Evangelos brake in DVD (downloaded the file and burnt a DVD with it) on my new Pioneer KRP-500M.

For the last several hours (4-5) all I've seen is mostly blue and green based slides....where are the red, pink, etc? Or does it take a very long time to run through all the slides?

Also do I just pop in the DVD and pres Play button or do I set the DVD player to "Disk Repeat" mode?

I've run it in "standard" mode until now but am about to go to bed and just in case I've switched to "disk repeat".

Is that the right way to do it?

Thanks.


Edit:

Managed to figure the red colors...I guess connecting component cables is not....shall we say my best side ;-) it was painful not to have red colors for 7-8 hours ;-)

Still would like to know about the "disk repeat" mode?


----------



## Mr.Mchealy

Good Day All,


I've seen at one point in one of the V10 owners threads the procedure for accessing the "panel use counter" but am unable to locate it via search. I'm two weeks into owning my 54" V10, and would like to see how many hours of break-in I've accumulated. I tend to run the slides in-between regular viewing and gaming, and also through the night. I have experienced a little bit of IR, but that has since gone away completely. I will most likely keep gaming to an absolute minimum now.


----------



## Zeni

Hi, I'm wondering how many hours of a static image (white font on a blu ray menu) does it usually take to result in burn in? I can't really tell if what I have is IR or BI, but I can still see the image after watching 2 hours or so of full screen content, and it's never lasted this long before. Thanks.


----------



## JackChester

Soon, some day in the next 3 days to 5 weeks my 65V10 will arrive.


Is there any risk to running the break in slides nearly continously for the first 120 hours or so.. When I say continously I mean turn the set on run the slides and come back in 5 days.


Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## geister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Mchealy* /forum/post/17411600
> 
> 
> Good Day All,
> 
> 
> I've seen at one point in one of the V10 owners threads the procedure for accessing the "panel use counter" but am unable to locate it via search. I'm two weeks into owning my 54" V10, and would like to see how many hours of break-in I've accumulated. I tend to run the slides in-between regular viewing and gaming, and also through the night. I have experienced a little bit of IR, but that has since gone away completely. I will most likely keep gaming to an absolute minimum now.



There are instructions on this page:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1123534


----------



## Wasp_21

Apologies, i had this question in another thread.


Good Day,


I have just aquired a sammy 50B450, and have spent numerous hours reading threads on pretty much everything to do with Plasma's.


My question is, IR is possible if watching 4:3, if not zoomed. Does this apply to watching 16:9 widescreen? There are black bars horizontally top and bottom. If so, then "burn-in" is possible if watching too much widescreen?


Thanks


----------



## Muskulpesent

I have been following this forum since I got my Panny 46gw10 (European version) about three months ago. The information provided by members has been invaluable for me. So I thought I should contribute to this forum by sharing my experience for the last three months with regards to IR.


I've got about 500 hours on the set so far and roughly 200 hrs of that with break-in slides. First of all I never had an issue that was visible during normal viewing. However, I occasionally inspect the screen when the room is dark and when there is no input, and I see ghost images, mostly from channels with solid white logos. From what I have seen on the screen, it seems to me there are two different types of ghost images that are left on the screen;


- If watch a channel with a bright logo for say 10 minutes and go to a no input screen in a dark room, I can clearly see a positive ghost image of the logo (i.e. if it is a bright logo the ghost image is also bright). I believe this is due to the residual charge left in those pixels that were displaying the bright white logo. This type of ghost image disappears immediately if watch some other full screen content.


- There are a few channels that have those bright white logos, and if I watch them 2-3 hrs, this time what I see is a negative ghost image of their logo (i.e. the pixels that were displaying those bright logos are darker relative to the rest of the screen). To clear this type of ghost image takes much longer (at least 3 to 4 times longer than the time it takes to create the IR). I guess this is what is called the temporary IR and is caused by the uneven aging of the phosphorus in those pixels. I think this can lead to permanent IR or more correctly a Burn In if these logos are displayed for too long. Of course I don't know how long is too long.










However, I should note that in either case the ghost image is not visible unless I am standing very close (about less than 3 fts) to the screen with no input etc. So this has not been a serious problem so far although I should admit that it bothers me a little since I have to pay attention to what I watch for how long. Apart from this, I can tell you that I am quitr happy with my decision to go with a plasma...


Cheers


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Muskulpesent* /forum/post/17426195
> 
> 
> I have been following this forum since I got my Panny 46gw10 (European version) about three months ago. The information provided by members has been invaluable for me. So I thought I should contribute to this forum by sharing my experience for the last three months with regards to IR.
> 
> 
> I've got about 500 hours on the set so far and roughly 200 hrs of that with break-in slides. First of all I never had an issue that was visible during normal viewing. However, I occasionally inspect the screen when the room is dark and when there is no input, and I see ghost images, mostly from channels with solid white logos. From what I have seen on the screen, it seems to me there are two different types of ghost images that are left on the screen;
> 
> 
> - If watch a channel with a bright logo for say 10 minutes and go to a no input screen in a dark room, I can clearly see a positive ghost image of the logo (i.e. if it is a bright logo the ghost image is also bright). I believe this is due to the residual charge left in those pixels that were displaying the bright white logo. This type of ghost image disappears immediately if watch some other full screen content.
> 
> 
> - There are a few channels that have those bright white logos, and if I watch them 2-3 hrs, this time what I see is a negative ghost image of their logo (i.e. the pixels that were displaying those bright logos are darker relative to the rest of the screen). To clear this type of ghost image takes much longer (at least 3 to 4 times longer than the time it takes to create the IR). I guess this is what is called the temporary IR and is caused by the uneven aging of the phosphorus in those pixels. I think this can lead to permanent IR or more correctly a Burn In if these logos are displayed for too long. Of course I don't know how long is too long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, I should note that in either case the ghost image is not visible unless I am standing very close (about less than 3 fts) to the screen with no input etc. So this has not been a serious problem so far although I should admit that it bothers me a little since I have to pay attention to what I watch for how long. Apart from this, I can tell you that I am quitr happy with my decision to go with a plasma...
> 
> 
> Cheers



How long is too long? I can no longer find a link but there was a study done by Pioneer or Panasonic about three or four generations ago where they left a static image on the screen of several plasma display units for 72 hours. There was significant IR on all plasma displays however after 24 hours of normal programming that filled the screen, IR was no longer visible.


----------



## Muskulpesent

That gives me an idea about how careful I should be to avoid a permanent problem. Thanks for the reply !


----------



## Andriante

a


----------



## geister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/17427009
> 
> 
> How long is too long? I can no longer find a link but there was a study done by Pioneer or Panasonic about three or four generations ago where they left a static image on the screen of several plasma display units for 72 hours. There was significant IR on all plasma displays however after 24 hours of normal programming that filled the screen, IR was no longer visible.



What you are referring to is the study by IDC.

The results are published in the White Paper called "Mythbusting - Just the Facts on Plasma TV Performance" by IDC:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf 


BTW, the static image was displayed for 48hrs, not 72hrs; the details of the image retention study begin on page 4.


----------



## Buckeye911

Thanks for the link, geister.


----------



## hotchickinHD

1. has anyone used the burn in images with an sd memory card?


2. much programming i like is broadcast in standard, anything special to do when viewing on a new plasma?


3. also what about those black bars on?


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hotchickinHD* /forum/post/17483197
> 
> 
> 1. has anyone used the burn in images with an sd memory card?
> 
> 
> 2. much programming i like is broadcast in standard, anything special to do when viewing on a new plasma?
> 
> 
> 3. also what about those black bars on?



1) Im not using it but from reading it should be no problem










2) Just make sure you are viewing in full, with no bars


3) Try and leave those black bars off for the beginning











Also, I saw someone mention the movies in 1.85:1 for safe viewing in break in mode. Here is a list I found of the blu rays in that mode if anyone needs
















http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=9502


----------



## Edllguy

Hello everyone. I have slight burn in my Pioneer Pro-930HD from my SA8300HD STB TV 4:3 TV guide. I have been able to "wash" away through rugular TV viewing my cable providers logo on the top left, however, I still have a vertical line on the left.


Can this be "washed away" over time or am I stuck with this image retention.


I believe I received this burn in when I activated the 4:3 TV guide and walked away when the phone rang and I forgot that the TV was still on for a good number of long hours.


Thanks


----------



## ClubSteeler

Wow... I am about to get a new TV for the bedroom, and I was about to take advantage of the incredible prices out there for 40" and smaller plasmas.


After reading this thread, I am completely spooked.


But.. then again... I don't play games, and I stretch SD to use the full screen.


I want a TV to be used only to watch TV, and I will not be running any maintenance DVDs for weeks at a time, or anything like that, especially since the TV will be in the room where I sleep.


I'd rather pay more for something that will work without worry.


So based on my statements above: Should I avoid plasma?


----------



## darkthrone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClubSteeler* /forum/post/17503164
> 
> 
> Wow... I am about to get a new TV for the bedroom, and I was about to take advantage of the incredible prices out there for 40" and smaller plasmas.
> 
> 
> After reading this thread, I am completely spooked.
> 
> 
> But.. then again... I don't play games, and I stretch SD to use the full screen.
> 
> 
> I want a TV to be used only to watch TV, and I will not be running any maintenance DVDs for weeks at a time, or anything like that, especially since the TV will be in the room where I sleep.
> 
> 
> I'd rather pay more for something that will work without worry.
> 
> 
> So based on my statements above: Should I avoid plasma?



no...because you are not watching sd content with the sidebars and wont have any static images on your screen...plasma should work just fine for you


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClubSteeler* /forum/post/17503164
> 
> 
> Wow... I am about to get a new TV for the bedroom, and I was about to take advantage of the incredible prices out there for 40" and smaller plasmas.
> 
> 
> After reading this thread, I am completely spooked.
> 
> 
> But.. then again... I don't play games, and I stretch SD to use the full screen.
> 
> 
> I want a TV to be used only to watch TV, and I will not be running any maintenance DVDs for weeks at a time, or anything like that, especially since the TV will be in the room where I sleep.
> 
> 
> I'd rather pay more for something that will work without worry.
> 
> 
> So based on my statements above: Should I avoid plasma?



Like darkthrone said, plasma will be fine for you. You won't find any new plasmas at 40" or smaller though. The smallest new plasma HDTV available commercially is 42".


----------



## devo235

I am currently in the midst of renovating my basement, which I will be making one area into a home theatre of sorts. I found a pretty good deal on a Pioneer Plasma (pdp-5010fd for $1100 Can.) from a gentleman in my area, and promptly bought it from him.

My question is, since I haven't used or even turned on the TV in a number of months, will I need to break-in the TV in again? When I am finished the basement within the next month or so, the display will not have been turned on for about 4-5 months. Does the TV require me to break it in again due to the fact it hasn't been used in so long? The display has low hours as-is, and the guy I got it from used a break-in DVD for the initial 150 hrs.


----------



## Jeff Theobald




> Quote:
> 1. has anyone used the burn in images with an sd memory card?
> 
> 
> 2. much programming i like is broadcast in standard, anything special to do when viewing on a new plasma?
> 
> 
> 3. also what about those black bars on?



1. I copied the files to the SD card, popped it in and ran the Slideshow on "Medium" display speed - make sure it is set to loop also. If it does not fill the screen, you have done something wrong.


2. Some say black bars are not good during the first 100-200 hours. You can just mix up your programming so that you view enough full screen content. Or set the bars to "bright" per the manual on Page 37 & 60. Or - run the built-in white scrolling bar for a while after watching 4:3 content (also Page 37 & 60).


3. See #2.


The point is to go easy on static high-contrast content during the more critical first 100-200 hours.


----------



## mcarella

I have a PN50B860... my 2nd one as my first one had the buzzing sound everyone's talking about. Regardless I had the first one for about a month, and while I was kind about turning down the brightness, I pretty much jumped right in with video games with static images. I.e. inFamous.


I noticed very very little is any IR at all on that TV. I absolutely never noticed it after watching channels with stationary logos on it (History Channel, news, etc).


However... the new TV I received 3 weeks ago I notice IR all the time. Whether it's video games, SD programming with the black bars, stationary logos on the news, etc. I'm not sure why this TV is very different from the last (same model and manufacturer).


My main question is.. I've probably watched about 100 hours of TV on it right now. With more viewing, is the IR supposed to lessen? At this point, it's noticable after roughly 5 minutes of viewing a static image and has me very very cautious about leaving anything up. I don't want to be a nut and freak out about leaving anything on my TV ever. I'd rather get one that won't retain images as easily (i.e. the first TV i had).


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *devo235* /forum/post/17522951
> 
> 
> I am currently in the midst of renovating my basement, which I will be making one area into a home theatre of sorts. I found a pretty good deal on a Pioneer Plasma (pdp-5010fd for $1100 Can.) from a gentleman in my area, and promptly bought it from him.
> 
> My question is, since I haven't used or even turned on the TV in a number of months, will I need to break-in the TV in again? When I am finished the basement within the next month or so, the display will not have been turned on for about 4-5 months. Does the TV require me to break it in again due to the fact it hasn't been used in so long? The display has low hours as-is, and the guy I got it from used a break-in DVD for the initial 150 hrs.



No, you don't need to break it in. Enjoy an awesome plasma display.


----------



## mr23shades

Hi guys,


This is my first plasma (P54V10). I've owned a huge ass rear proj from 2001.


I'm still in my first 100 hours and I'm keeping all image options 50 or below. 30 in some cases.


I do play some games, like madden and will be playing it some this weekend. Probably for a couple hours. On that game specifically, it has a bar at the bottom for scores/time, etc. However, throughout a game, it doesn't stay static. It'll go away during pick plays, halftime, game setup, etc.


So my question is, how long does a static image have to be on the screen for it to cause some concern and how long do I need to switch the image for.


What's a general rule of thumb here, if I have static image #1 on screen for xx minutes, I should switch the picture up for xx minutes then safely go back to the static image #1 again.


Any general rules here? Are we talking about IR happening in minutes, hours, days?


Thanks!


----------



## TheAnswer_03

Does running break-in slides help remove image retention better than running regular full screen programming or scrolling feature in a Panasonic plasma, or is there no difference between those options?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mr23shades* /forum/post/17527433
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> This is my first plasma (P54V10). I've owned a huge ass rear proj from 2001.
> 
> 
> I'm still in my first 100 hours and I'm keeping all image options 50 or below. 30 in some cases.
> 
> 
> I do play some games, like madden and will be playing it some this weekend. Probably for a couple hours. On that game specifically, it has a bar at the bottom for scores/time, etc. However, throughout a game, it doesn't stay static. It'll go away during pick plays, halftime, game setup, etc.
> 
> 
> So my question is, how long does a static image have to be on the screen for it to cause some concern and how long do I need to switch the image for.
> 
> 
> What's a general rule of thumb here, if I have static image #1 on screen for xx minutes, I should switch the picture up for xx minutes then safely go back to the static image #1 again.
> 
> 
> Any general rules here? Are we talking about IR happening in minutes, hours, days?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You will get IR, sometimes after only seconds but it goes away very quickly and is not generally visible in normal viewing. Usually,the only way to see IR is on a blank or solid color screen. Go ahead and play Madden, you'll be fine.


----------



## ashbrown

ok guys so i just bought a 50 inch panny g10 and it is arriving tomorrow. i have read a whole bunch of info in the supposed break in but i still have some questions.


i have heard some say that with high end plasmas like panasonic now a days the break in is not neccessary and was needed more for older models and tech...agree or disagree?


i just want to make sure 100% i do this right so here is what i am planning on doing, please add to this if needed...


i just turn the brightness and contrast an maybe some other settings down to 50% and only watch full screen material. are static images just completely still images like when you pause something or do they also include channel logos that are on pretty much every channel? if you watch tv regularly it is almost impossible to avoid still channel logos so what should i do? come channels like cnn and espn have black bars on the side or tickers that i dont think can be removed in HD...can i still watch those channels? for how long at a time? i hear people say dont watch this or that for hours on end...exactly how long are we talking about? can i play video games on the TV when new and for how long at a time if so? the dude at best buy said he played video games on his for a long while when he first got his TV.


i am thinking about running the break in DVD at night and watching regular tv during the day for the first 100-120 hours...is this a good strategy? is the break in DVD primarly used to just get through the break in period faster to avoid any possibile damage and age the pixels more evenly? from what i have read it seems like more of a time thing.


now about the break in formats... http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa...nload_main.htm 


...i dont know if my computer burns DVDs and i would go out and have to get dvdr if it did. i read about a couple other ways of formatting the images but i am not tech savvy so help me out. it says i can put the images on a memory card...what kind of memory card will be able to go into the TV? i have a memory stick for my digital camera...will that work?


i also heard about putting the images on CDR on SVCD format? do older dvd players or ps2s play this kind of cdr format? what if i dont have an HDMI cable just yet? is there any way i can hook my computer up to the TV and use the images for the TV?


should i just forget all of this and enjoy the damn thing?

sorry for the long post...but i would appreciate any help.


----------



## amplive

Eh, I ran the break in disc for about 20 hours. After that I just watched regular tv, but stuck with the full screen. The static logos are pretty much impossible to get rid of, unless you can zoom, and alot of the time it will be there still, even if by just a little bit.


I have a Panny 42s series, and have been watching sports on it, and have been nervous, because they keep the scores up always (football, hockey, b-ball), but I havent noticed anything, so maybe I was just paranoid?


----------



## videonut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amplive* /forum/post/17554902
> 
> 
> Eh, I ran the break in disc for about 20 hours. After that I just watched regular tv, but stuck with the full screen. The static logos are pretty much impossible to get rid of, unless you can zoom, and alot of the time it will be there still, even if by just a little bit.
> 
> 
> I have a Panny 42s series, and have been watching sports on it, and have been nervous, because they keep the scores up always (football, hockey, b-ball), but I havent noticed anything, so maybe I was just paranoid?



I felt the same way at first, but then realized that life is short and I should be enjoying the set. If I do ever see burn in damage, I'll throw the set away and chalk it up to a bad experience. But I will put the Horns on all the fanboys who helped talk me into getting a plasma set.


----------



## jpoints

I just purchased an LG 50" and nowhere in the manual that came in the box was burn in mentioned.


Is this even a concern on newer models? Do I really need to use a break in cd?


What about the horizontal black bars? Should movies and tv shows with this be avoided?


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpoints* /forum/post/17579425
> 
> 
> I just purchased an LG 50" and nowhere in the manual that came in the box was burn in mentioned.



This should be enough information for you for your answer.


----------



## jjthenovice

I've just purchased this set and I've been reading everything that I can on IR (Image Retention), the break-in period and how to break in. My question is, will it hurt if I watch a Dvd movie with the black bars above and below the screen during the break-in? I have no experience with plasma. BTW, I posted this is the general thread as well with no answer. I love this TV so far....

Thanks

jj


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjthenovice* /forum/post/17587520
> 
> 
> I've just purchased this set and I've been reading everything that I can on IR (Image Retention), the break-in period and how to break in. My question is, will it hurt if I watch a Dvd movie with the black bars above and below the screen during the break-in? I have no experience with plasma. BTW, I posted this is the general thread as well with no answer. I love this TV so far....
> 
> Thanks
> 
> jj



I would avoid it within your first 100 hours of use or so. Some people may say don't worry about it though, but I would not do it just to be safe. You can zoom in and get rid of the black bars too.


----------



## jphouck

I found the 20 slide files for break-in but can't find the link or files for the 120 slides. Help?


----------



## TheAnswer_03

Panasonic plasma, pixel orbiter Automatic or Periodic (1) minute?


Anyone know how much better Periodic (1) is compared to Automatic in terms of minimizing IR? Or is there not really any noticeable or significant difference?


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAnswer_03* /forum/post/17601610
> 
> 
> Panasonic plasma, pixel orbiter Automatic or Periodic (1) minute?
> 
> 
> Anyone know how much better Periodic (1) is compared to Automatic in terms of minimizing IR? Or is there not really any noticeable or significant difference?



Periodic 1 is the best for it. I think automatic comes on 4 minutes after


----------



## carol12

thanks for sharing informative views here...really i glad to be part of this forum. learn about lot of things i was not aware about


----------



## cleoent

Recently purchased a Sammy PN50B850 from BB. New to plasma, been using LCD's for a long time, I game a lot, hours on end, at any point in the ownership of this plasma will I be able to do that without worrying about IR or burn in?


----------



## videonut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cleoent* /forum/post/17610160
> 
> 
> Recently purchased a Sammy PN50B850 from BB. New to plasma, been using LCD's for a long time, I game a lot, hours on end, at any point in the ownership of this plasma will I be able to do that without worrying about IR or burn in?



You'll hear many varying views regarding Image retention. The Plasma fanboys will defend the format to the end, and the cynics will go out of their way too find every fault. But fortunately, many will offer an unbiased report after spending time with their set. Hopefully, now that you've already commited to the Plasma format, you'll be back here with some straight scoop on the situation. I'm sure many of the gamers will be looking forward to reading your empiricle evaluation.


I'm also a longtime LCD and DLP user who has never experienced any issues with image retention. And all of my sets had heavy useage; games, static logos, stock tickers, lettebox and full-screen formats, etc.


I now have a Panny 57 inch Plasma. The picture quality is outstanding, and so far IR is not been an issue. I don't use the set for gaming, but it gets a lot of use with movies and the Fox Business channel (constant ticker).


I did go easy for the first two-hundred hours, with low contrast and brightness settings and kept the screen full, but now I'm using the set as I normally would; I'm a movie buff and will only view film's at their correct aspect ratio.


I will keep reporting my experiences here, and hope you will do the same.


Best of luck with your new set!


----------



## cleoent




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *videonut* /forum/post/17616256
> 
> 
> You'll hear many varying views regarding Image retention. The Plasma fanboys will defend the format to the end, and the cynics will go out of their way too find every fault. But fortunately, many will offer an unbiased report after spending time with their set. Hopefully, now that you've already commited to the Plasma format, you'll be back here with some straight scoop on the situation. I'm sure many of the gamers will be looking forward to reading your empiricle evaluation.
> 
> 
> I'm also a longtime LCD and DLP user who has never experienced any issues with image retention. And all of my sets had heavy useage; games, static logos, stock tickers, lettebox and full-screen formats, etc.
> 
> 
> I now have a Panny 57 inch Plasma. The picture quality is outstanding, and so far IR is not been an issue. I don't use the set for gaming, but it gets a lot of use with movies and the Fox Business channel (constant ticker).
> 
> 
> I did go easy for the first two-hundred hours, with low contrast and brightness settings and kept the screen full, but now I'm using the set as I normally would; I'm a movie buff and will only view film's at their correct aspect ratio.
> 
> 
> I will keep reporting my experiences here, and hope you will do the same.
> 
> 
> Best of luck with your new set!



I'm about 30 hours in and had my first bout with IR after watching a movie with the black bars (rambo). It was very minor and dissapeared within about 2 minutes of back to regular watching, if that's all i have to worry about, then i'll be just fine


----------



## stretch437




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *videonut* /forum/post/17616256
> 
> 
> You'll hear many varying views regarding Image retention. The Plasma fanboys will defend the format to the end, and the cynics will go out of their way too find every fault. But fortunately, many will offer an unbiased report after spending time with their set. Hopefully, now that you've already commited to the Plasma format, you'll be back here with some straight scoop on the situation. I'm sure many of the gamers will be looking forward to reading your empiricle evaluation.
> 
> 
> I'm also a longtime LCD and DLP user who has never experienced any issues with image retention. And all of my sets had heavy useage; games, static logos, stock tickers, lettebox and full-screen formats, etc.
> 
> 
> I now have a Panny 57 inch Plasma. The picture quality is outstanding, and so far IR is not been an issue. I don't use the set for gaming, but it gets a lot of use with movies and the Fox Business channel (constant ticker).
> 
> 
> I did go easy for the first two-hundred hours, with low contrast and brightness settings and kept the screen full, but now I'm using the set as I normally would; I'm a movie buff and will only view film's at their correct aspect ratio.
> 
> 
> I will keep reporting my experiences here, and hope you will do the same.
> 
> 
> Best of luck with your new set!



you speak the truth.


i got my first plasma last year around this time. i have about 1300 hours on it. i do watch SD with pillar bars occasionally, and i do watch movies with letterbox bars. when i turn on a full white screen, i can see a little variation in uniformity. *very* little. and then only if i'm looking for it.


yes pixels can age unevenly. any emissive display (including plasma, CRT, the mythical SED and hopefully someday OLED) will exhibit this phenomenon. people who claim it's impossible are wishing away some basic truths of the display technology.


the only question is will the effect be noticeable (in your display's lifetime).


if my experience is any indicator, i can answer 'probably not at all'.


worst case, you get it home and leave the set in torch mode and proceed to watch 200 hours of SD content with black letter bars: even in this scenario, you've got to keep in mind that any resultant effect will only be noticeable when the screen is supposed to be displaying a full field that is very light and very uniform. this doesn't come up that often and any change in uniformity is very unlikely to call attention to itself when it does.


so a person who lives in blissful ignorance of AVS and does "everything wrong" very likely might never realize their mistake in years of normal viewing.


even if you blow off the break in, fine, you displayed the same thing for a while and you have some IR after the first hundred hours. you will porobably own the set for years. simply begin watching a variety of stuff at some point. any point. it will fix itself eventually. just move on.


if i had to sum it up in two lines, it would be


- don't be a dumbass and give yourself an obvious reason to worry

- if you watch any normal variety of content, you won't have any reason to worry


with the following addendum


- if you still feel compelled to worry, you can always use the appropriate tools built in to the display


----------



## daveclyde

+1


----------



## japjoe7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daveclyde* /forum/post/17622465
> 
> 
> +1



+2


----------



## AJ_nepa

I just purchased the Panosonic TCP54G10 and am planning on doing a "break-in". Most of the recommendations are watch in full or zoom and do not watch programs with static logos as well as tweaking some settings. I beleive I should do a break in since my son can't wait to run his Xbox 360 on it.


I have the settings from info from this site which was very helpfull but I have a few questions.


1.) Is there any stations without these logos. I can't seem to find many.

2.) If when in Zoom mode the logo disapears is this OK...I'm not sure if because I can't see it it still doesn't do any harm. When in Zoom mode the ESPN banner disapears.

3.) I have seen reference to non-transparent logos. CBS seems to be a transparent logo. Would this be ok during the break in period.

4.) I was going to use break in slides on a SD card. Is this a good idea?


Any other suggestions would be greatly apprecited.


Thank you in advance


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AJ_nepa* /forum/post/17627910
> 
> 
> I just purchased the Panosonic TCP54G10 and am planning on doing a "break-in". Most of the recommendations are watch in full or zoom and do not watch programs with static logos as well as tweaking some settings. I beleive I should do a break in since my son can't wait to run his Xbox 360 on it.
> 
> 
> I have the settings from info from this site which was very helpfull but I have a few questions.
> 
> 
> 1.) Is there any stations without these logos. I can't seem to find many.
> 
> 2.) If when in Zoom mode the logo disapears is this OK...I'm not sure if because I can't see it it still doesn't do any harm. When in Zoom mode the ESPN banner disapears.
> 
> 3.) I have seen reference to non-transparent logos. CBS seems to be a transparent logo. Would this be ok during the break in period.
> 
> 4.) I was going to use break in slides on a SD card. Is this a good idea?
> 
> 
> Any other suggestions would be greatly apprecited.
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance



Don't worry about the logos, as long as you don't watch the same channel nonstop. Some of the better channels are TBS and TNT. They have transparent logos. Comedy Central as well.


----------



## Elkhunter

For those of you who are concerned about plasma burn-in/ir, I recommend that you read the HD Guru's post : Plasma TV "Burn-In" : Fact or Myth?, which posted today at www.hdguru.com/


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elkhunter* /forum/post/17637797
> 
> 
> For those of you who are concerned about plasma burn-in/ir, I recommend that you read the HD Guru's post : Plasma TV "Burn-In" : Fact or Myth?, which posted today at www.hdguru.com/



Thank you for that link....more of these tests are needed to debunk this myth of burn-in on PDPs...yes it can happen but never under normal home viewing conditions...


----------



## altaguy

i just got a new panny plasma and was worried about burn in for a bit.


then I remembered my parents panny plasma which they used to watch SD content 95% of the time. Must have been at least 600 hours of SD content on it, and it had extremely noticeable side bars. They were completely gone 2 months later when HD was hooked up and they watched the occasional HD program.


I think pretty much any IR/burn in is repairable


----------



## grif32

I will be going on 7 years (may 2010) with my Current Panny Plasma. Many hrs of gaming, tickers etc and NEVER had Burn-in and I never did the "Break-IN" back then. It still produces one hell of a picture.


I am going out today and purchasing a TC-P50G10 to replace my LCD in the living room. Nothing compares to a Plasma and I don't know why I ever bought the LCD. Today's Plasma's have to be 100% better then 6 or 7 years ago with the Burn-in problem so I don't worry about it.


----------



## rocksnboarder

is the cd at the first page still used to break in plasmas and lcds?


----------



## astrosfan

Can anyone tell me how to run a slideshow off of a usb drive (plugged directly into the back of the tv) in 'full screen' on a 58B560?


I burnt the images (1920X1080) on a disc (played through ps3) and they play just fine, but when I try to run them directly from the usb drive they are only about a quarter of the size?


If I view the slides individually, I can zoom in, but cannot seem to run the slideshow zoomed in


Any help would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## juicy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *altaguy* /forum/post/17640202
> 
> 
> i just got a new panny plasma and was worried about burn in for a bit.
> 
> 
> then I remembered my parents panny plasma which they used to watch SD content 95% of the time. Must have been at least 600 hours of SD content on it, and it had extremely noticeable side bars. They were completely gone 2 months later when HD was hooked up and they watched the occasional HD program.
> 
> 
> I think pretty much any IR/burn in is repairable



i was thinking that too but i just received my new Kuro (yeah) but the user manual is freaking me out a bit. it's saying not to watch tv letterboxed and to use the Zoom feature.. which bums me out because i like watching in correct aspect ratio.. and then says not to watch stations with logo id's...which is almost all of them! and it does state that image burn in can be permanent because pixels are dead maybe they are just being overly cautious but it's disturbing that its right there in the manual. it's like i'm scared to watch my TV! lol


----------



## blachatch

I just bought a panny g15 I'm new to all of this stuff what should I put the settings on for when I first turn it on and what should I set it at after that first start.


----------



## jmerrey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rocksnboarder* /forum/post/17665513
> 
> 
> is the cd at the first page still used to break in plasmas and lcds?



I'd like to know this too, my 58v10 is being delivered monday...


----------



## the5rivers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmerrey* /forum/post/17685222
> 
> 
> I'd like to know this too, my 58v10 is being delivered monday...



Same here guys. First time plasma buyer, just purchased a 58B860, and wanted to know what the proper break-in procedures were for a plasma owner. Thanks!


----------



## footballforever

new to the Plasma world myself, I just picked up my 50" LG 50PS60, and Man I love it.


----------



## captainbarred

this may be a dumb question, but I could not find an answer from searching the thread....


I have a Panny 50in 1080P model. I did the break in with the slide show on the SD card.


I just brought home a Panny 42in 720P that I got for the parents for Christmas.

Do I use the same images to do the break in or are there a 720P version somewhere that I should be using??


I saw the VCD you can DL was 720P, but would prefer to use the SD slide show....


Thanks in advance.


-Tim


----------



## the5rivers

So what is preferred? The break-in DVD or the 20 image slide show? Any comments please? Thanks!!


----------



## captainbarred




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the5rivers* /forum/post/17690040
> 
> 
> So what is preferred? The break-in DVD or the 20 image slide show? Any comments please? Thanks!!



Unless I am missing something, they are the same thing bud. DVD if you don't have a slide-show from SD Card or USB drive option.


----------



## the5rivers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *captainbarred* /forum/post/17690291
> 
> 
> Unless I am missing something, they are the same thing bud. DVD if you don't have a slide-show from SD Card or USB drive option.



Thanks man I figured as much, but wanted to double check. My apologies! Take care!


----------



## captainbarred

No worries


----------



## bassballboy

Hi all, I just got the PN50B530 the other day and have been looking for ways to prevent IR as much as possible. After reading the following article, it sounds as though there isn't much to be concerned about though:

http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/ 


Any truth to that stuff? If a single image left on screen for 48 hours didn't cause permanent damage what could?


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassballboy* /forum/post/17693129
> 
> 
> Hi all, I just got the PN50B530 the other day and have been looking for ways to prevent IR as much as possible. After reading the following article, it sounds as though there isn't much to be concerned about though:
> 
> http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/
> 
> *Any truth to that stuff?* If a single image left on screen for 48 hours didn't cause permanent damage what could?



Yes


----------



## blachatch

I just turned my tv on set my settings and started watching it I hope it will be fine.


----------



## footballforever

after running the break in, have you guys uped the contrast and set your set to how you want it with no more worries.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *footballforever* /forum/post/17699702
> 
> 
> after running the break in, have you guys uped the contrast and set your set to how you want it with no more worries.



what are you worried about?


----------



## footballforever




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/17700637
> 
> 
> what are you worried about?



I don't wan any burn in of any sort. I mean I should be safe right. I wanna set my picture to how I want it after the break in period.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *footballforever* /forum/post/17701066
> 
> 
> I don't wan any burn in of any sort. I mean I should be safe right. I wanna set my picture to how I want it after the break in period.



BI is an urban myth...it is only going to happen if you severely misuse your display. It is a non-issue with normal home viewing...check out
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/ 

in particular the paragraph on the torture test run by ISF and Pioneer...


----------



## footballforever




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/17701248
> 
> 
> BI is an urban myth...it is only going to happen if you severely misuse your display. It is a non-issue with normal home viewing...check out
> http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/
> 
> in particular the paragraph on the torture test run by ISF and Pioneer...



I also game a lot, but never for hours on end, maybe an hour max, is this a non issue for gaming too?



Also, I hear don't watch ESPN long or anything with a ticker, I mean I do watch EPSN for long periods of time, am I not suppose to watch because of the ticker.


----------



## superhdmi

thx


----------



## thumbring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *footballforever* /forum/post/17702084
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I hear don't watch ESPN long or anything with a ticker, I mean I do watch EPSN for long periods of time, am I not suppose to watch because of the ticker.



I've just had my first taste of IR/burn in on my new Samsung 50" b450.

It's what brought me here.


In the first week after I got the Tv right before Thanksgiving I was watching the NFL channel and for some dumb reason put the DVR on pause to go answer the phone - couldn't have been more than 5 minutes - but when I came back I realized what I'd done and looked, and sure enough - their WHITE "HD" logo in the bottom right hand of screen was showing up on all the light colored screens as a white ghost. (Only really visible from 2-3 ft away - but I noticed - oh yeah, I noticed)


Freaked me out - ran the white scrolling bar thingie for like an hour on dynamic mode twice that night and it seemed to lessen a bit - then came here and downloaded the burn-in DVD color slides and ran that for 2 hrs a day for 2 days and once or twice every couple of days after that and it's gone completely now. I did watch almost all full screen stuff for the first couple weeks and toned things down some with the movie settings, but still watched whole days and nights of football with no aftereffects.


Now when I see solid white logos I get a paranoid twitch. But it was really just my boneheaded move on my part.


Almost a month in now after that scare and I watch all the ESPN stuff and letterbox movies and never notice any IR with just the standard settings with the contrast turned down a bit and feel pretty safe. I just stay away from the damn pause button on my Directv HD DVR.


----------



## kucharsk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/17701248
> 
> 
> BI is an urban myth...it is only going to happen if you severely misuse your display. It is a non-issue with normal home viewing...check out
> http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/
> 
> in particular the paragraph on the torture test run by ISF and Pioneer...



From the article mentioned above:



> Quote:
> Running a PDP in 4x3 for long periods will still result in uneven wear – that will eventually be visible and is not recommended.



I don't consider wanting to watch 4:3 content unstretched or unzoomed to be "severe misuse."










I love my plasma, I do, it has given me years of wonderful service to date, but the fact that I have to worry about watching 4:3 in 4:3 or about channels with bright bugs still bothers me.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kucharsk* /forum/post/17715896
> 
> 
> From the article mentioned above:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't consider wanting to watch 4:3 content unstretched or unzoomed to be "severe misuse."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love my plasma, I do, it has given me years of wonderful service to date, but the fact that I have to worry about watching 4:3 in 4:3 or about channels with bright bugs still bothers me.



I guess it depends on how old the plasma is, considering you have had it for years of wonderful service. The key is the term "long periods" ... as long as it is mixed in with full screen content you needn't worry (at least for newer plasmas)...


----------



## maley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elkhunter* /forum/post/17637797
> 
> 
> For those of you who are concerned about plasma burn-in/ir, I recommend that you read the HD Guru's post : Plasma TV "Burn-In" : Fact or Myth?, which posted today at www.hdguru.com/



Awesome read here.


I'm about to buy the V10 and I'm not too worried about burn in. I'm going to run break in for a bit w/ low bright/contrast and the primary usage of the TV is for PS3 Blu-ray and PS3 gaming. The Wii will also be used.


----------



## NightowlKY

I have my 50S1 arriving tomorrow sometime and plan on doing the break-in (even though it appears it's not necessary for these newer models?)


Anyway, is it best to run the break-in off factory settings or use one of the calibrated settings from others up here?


----------



## Spidergames

How does some one know, when their tv is done breaking it in?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spidergames* /forum/post/17722747
> 
> 
> How does some one know, when their tv is done breaking it in?



After running the TV 100 - 200 hours it is broken in.


----------



## fivepnt1

I've had my Panasonic TCP54G10 since Sunday and have kept a variety of content going maybe 20 hrs total. No letterbox or 4-3, kept the contrast at 74 mostly the rest of time at 50. Sound like a plan for the next 2 weeks?


----------



## garybru

I just enjoy my new 54V10. Don't be so paranoid about using it. I set the Custom right off from the start, and use the THX when watching BDs. I also play games on the ps3 but do limit the time. I have been running the SD 120 slides as per D-Nice on Vivid. But run them when I am not using the display at home. Run them at night when sleeping and when I am at work. I am up to amost 85 hours running it this way. I am not running them for purposes of IR...But and running them to get the best quality display I can get. And it already looks a LOT better. The colors and blacks already look a lot better. Use the V10 as its intended to be used and enjoy it and don't worry that the sky is falling.


----------



## CommentingNick

I browsed this forum about a year and a half ago before buying my Kuro 5020FD and I thought I'd follow up with my experiences. I figure lots of folks come here to do research but then don't follow up on after they make their purchases, so here is my 2 cents.







I ran the burn-in disc for a few hours when I first got the TV, was careful about my viewing habits for about a week (tried to watch no-logo 16:9), and I have never had a problem with burn-in. I currently watch lots of 4:3 (the Pioneer forces me to use gray bars) and game for hours on end. My viewing habits are pretty varied, so maybe I just never give it a chance to burn in. I remember some people posting that burn-in may be a thing of the past, at least for higher quality plasmas; so for what it's worth, I've never seen burn-in at all.


----------



## mroot

Just got my Panny 50V10 on Thursday and I am running the slideshow. Just curious if I should wait on any calibrations until after the 100 hours of break-in? I noticed the slideshow has my picture set for STANDARD, which is +50 on Contrast, Brightness and Color. I could select Vivid, Studio Ref, Game or Photo if I wanted to, but I'm leaving it on Standard.


Thanks for any recommendations!


----------



## seanuk2

Hi i have a PS42B451 Samsung Plasma TV, bought new around 5-6 months ago from a reputable high street shop.


I have had my contrast and brightness settings set to around 50-60% ever since i got it.


I know the Samsung Plasma's are quite prone to IR but surely not this prone?

If i have something left on the screen for just 10-20 seconds i get IR, it does go away very quickly when displaying something else but its still very annoying and noticable.


Is my TV pheraps faulty?


Cheers


----------



## Princeismyname

I have a question about breaking in a new TV 100-200hrs. The site with the DVD download for burn in disc recommends you run it 24/7. Is that really nessecary? I dont like to run my electronics when im not home. Can I break in the 200hrs spurts at a time? I would probably run it overnight so im guessing 12hrs or so at a time, then let the electronics cool off for a few hours then back at her.


----------



## Jaye71

Hi all,


I originally tried to revive the old Vizio VP322 thread but did not get a response, so I thought I would try my luck here. Here is the original post: "I have had this 32" plasma for about a year and a half and what is weird is that the IR seems to be getting worse with age. IR seems to almost be instantaneous and lasts for a considerable amount of time. For example, if I switch to an input with no signal the "no signal" image leaves an IR trail that will persist for several minutes. This gets annoying if you are watching anything with a black background screen. Also, I haven't been able to play games on this TV due to the bad IR. I have also experienced some long term IR on the screen due to the misses watching SD channels without the gray sidebars. Now to my question. I have the extended warranty on the TV and wonder if this is something that may be covered under warranty. Has anyone ever called and had something like this covered? Also, please understand that this has not tainted my view of plasma TVs, as I have just replaced my living room LCD with a G10 Panasonic plasma."


Seanuk 2, I know we have different panels but it seams like we are experiencing something similar. It seems weird especially since I thought IR diminishes with age. That is why I am wondering if it is something more like a motherboard or control board issue.


Thanks...


----------



## nnarum23

My parents picked up a p50x1 this weekend and a lot of the shows the watch are letterbox. They don't have HD cable quite yet... Should they worry about burn in? I'm going to try to get them upgraded, but they don't want the extra piece of equipment in the house...


Why have most of the standard channels gone to widescreen?


----------



## altaguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17758453
> 
> 
> My parents picked up a p50x1 this weekend and a lot of the shows the watch are letterbox. They don't have HD cable quite yet... Should they worry about burn in? I'm going to try to get them upgraded, but they don't want the extra piece of equipment in the house...
> 
> 
> Why have most of the standard channels gone to widescreen?



i got my parents a panny 42" in 2007. They only had sd and didn't zoom. The image retention was pretty horrible. I got them HD mid 2008 and even with varied viewing I can still see a little bit of the 4:3 bars on some scenes. They don't notice it, but I do.


Especially since the TV is in its first 100 hours, yes I would be quite concerned with the continued use of black bared content. Even after the first 200 hours, months and months of black bars will damage the set.


----------



## NightowlKY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Princeismyname* /forum/post/17758364
> 
> 
> I have a question about breaking in a new TV 100-200hrs. The site with the DVD download for burn in disc recommends you run it 24/7. Is that really nessecary? I dont like to run my electronics when im not home. Can I break in the 200hrs spurts at a time? I would probably run it overnight so im guessing 12hrs or so at a time, then let the electronics cool off for a few hours then back at her.



After running a solid 20-25hrs on mine, I'm doing a mix of TV/Blu-Ray watching along with the slides. I let it do the break-in stuff while I'm getting ready for work and then set the P50S1 to the 3hr shutoff after no activity (my bit of paranoia about the player freezing on a single slide or something)


I'll also have it do another 3hr break-in run when I go to bed.


----------



## stretch437

sorry i couldn't resist one last drive-by post:


anyone concerned about an activity measured in "hours" should relax.


any activity that you measure in "months" or "years" matters.


as explained in the 'electronic home' article posted above and confirmed by many anecdotal reports, temporary image retention is just not a big deal. if you watch a big black silhouette of a middle finger on a white background for 100 hours, it just doesn't matter. it will go away.


if you watch nothing but 4:3 TV with black bars for the first two YEARS you own the set, then yes, sadly, the phosphors do, eventually, age differently. you'll be *able* to see something. whether or not you *do* see something depends on if you're looking for it.


but honestly, all this talk of break-in disks, or leaving something on pause, or *anything* that only happens for a few hours- i just want to say relax, drop it, enjoy your set.


if you're going to watch ESPN for two years non-stop, fine, let us know how it looks in 2012. otherwise, if you will be watching any reasonable variety of TV, you may safely disregard this and move on.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stretch437* /forum/post/17763331
> 
> 
> sorry i couldn't resist one last drive-by post:
> 
> 
> anyone concerned about an activity measured in "hours" should relax.
> 
> 
> any activity that you measure in "months" or "years" matters.
> 
> 
> as explained in the 'electronic home' article posted above and confirmed by many anecdotal reports, temporary image retention is just not a big deal. if you watch a big black silhouette of a middle finger on a white background for 100 hours, it just doesn't matter. it will go away.
> 
> 
> if you watch nothing but 4:3 TV with black bars for the first two YEARS you own the set, then yes, sadly, the phosphors do, eventually, age differently. you'll be *able* to see something. whether or not you *do* see something depends on if you're looking for it.
> 
> 
> but honestly, all this talk of break-in disks, or leaving something on pause, or *anything* that only happens for a few hours- i just want to say relax, drop it, enjoy your set.
> 
> 
> if you're going to watch ESPN for two years non-stop, fine, let us know how it looks in 2012. otherwise, if you will be watching any reasonable variety of TV, you may safely disregard this and move on.



+1 ...Why is this thread even a "Sticky"? I think this just fuels the fire...If it has to be a "sticky" lets just call it the "Even Phosphor Break-in Thread"


----------



## NightowlKY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/17763360
> 
> 
> +1 ...Why is this thread even a "Sticky"? I think this just fuels the fire...If it has to be a "sticky" lets just call it the "Even Phosphor Break-in Thread"



Consider the original date of this thread (Dec. 2007) and the one before it was from 2005.


Technology has changed in the last 2 years and continues to improve to the point that I guess we can ask, is this really necessary?


----------



## uschxc

Hi everyone.


First let me apologize for not searching for this. I am mobile and will only have a couple hours with my newly delivered Pioneer KRP-500m before I leave for the holidays and want to make sure I set it up for break in properly.


I've obtained the break in dvd but am reading anywhere from 200 to 1000 hours of break in before a given set is ready for normal viewing.


Is there a recommended number for the 500m's? Since I will be gone for about a week before I can come home to play with it, I figure the Low Contrast/Brightness option over the course of 7-10 days would be more than adequate however I don't want to overdue it (although I would hope that wouldn't be a likely outcome).


Thoughts, opinions?


----------



## Tigerriot

About once a year I check in on the plasma forums. It's rather humorous to see the exact same situations playing out years after I first visited these forums.


People making claims that burn in is a "thing of the past", while the next post is from a guy who paused his DVR for less than 10 minutes on his plasma and had some burn in as a result. lol


It never gets old.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tigerriot* /forum/post/17766565
> 
> 
> About once a year I check in on the plasma forums. It's rather humorous to see the exact same situations playing out years after I first visited these forums.
> 
> 
> People making claims that burn in is a "thing of the past", while the next post is from a guy who paused his DVR for less than 10 minutes on his plasma and had some burn in as a result. lol
> 
> 
> It never gets old.



Dude, that is NOT burn-in, it's image retention that disappears very quickly and, except for very rare instances, is not visible with normal viewing. Burn-in is not a significant issue with plasmas today and hasn't been for the past few years.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tigerriot* /forum/post/17766565
> 
> 
> About once a year I check in on the plasma forums. It's rather humorous to see the exact same situations playing out years after I first visited these forums.
> 
> 
> People making claims that burn in is a "thing of the past", while the next post is from a guy who paused his DVR for less than 10 minutes on his plasma and had some burn in as a result. lol
> 
> 
> It never gets old.



It makes me LOL when ignorant, uninformed neophytes occasionally visit this forum to tell us that something that is obviously just temporary image retention is actually Burn-in...


----------



## dallasjetfan

I am about to buy a Samsung 42". I never used a break-in DVD with my Panny and I have had no problems. I just ran it for a few hundred hours with low contrast and never allowed black bars or anything that wasn't HD content. I watched a lot of HD Discovery. I am guessing that will be ok with the Sammy too?


----------



## mustang5o

Has anyone purchased any of the Blue Scenes Blu-Ray discs? I thought they might make a good alternative for breaking in displays (mainly the coral reef one).


Check them out http://www.bluscenes.com/


----------



## Scenic Labs

Happy Holidays, all:


Found this thread via Woopra -- our referral monitoring software. To cut to the chase and abide by the site rules, I'm going to answer this as best I can.


If you are breaking in any TV with any of our products, we recommend using the "loop all" function. This pretty much ensures a totally different scene every 20 minutes.


The fish move quite a bit, but being stationary shots (obviously), I don't know that I'd ever want to just play one scene ad infinitum. Everything moves quite a bit (corals are stationary, but they are alive, so they move, and fish swim in front of them all the time) but there still might be some retention issues to which a screen is most vulnerable in its first 200 hours.


And it goes without saying that while we did take precautions with our Fireplace program (we changed positioning of the grate between scenes, etc), we don't recommend our fireplace (or any other fireplace program) as a break-in disc.







That's probably a Mr. Obvious comment, but I'm posting it just in case this thread comes up in somebody's web search.


We've actually talked about developing a looping break-in program that cycled through colors and patterns (even just to include as bonus material), but we might team up with a calibration authority for that. There are also some free ones online that we'd like to get permission to link to from our site.


Thanks again for the link to us. We're a pretty small outfit and we do pay attention to these things. If this post violates any rules, I'll remove it but I'm posting because I think I'm in a position to respond to the poster's question.


Thanks!

Jason Rosenfeld


----------



## rumba

I watch MSNBC a fair amount on my Pioneer 111 ( Matthews, Ollberman, Maddow) and their graphics now have an annoying white bar across the top of the screen throughout their programing. I certainly watch plenty of other material so thought nothing of it as far as IR. Last night I was watching a film and noticed in a bright blue sky sequence the faint image of a bar across the top of the screen and could also barely make out the MSNBC logo. Stunned at this ( especially as I haven't watched any MSNBC for days) I ran the video pattern before I went to bed. I sure hope it does the trick. I don't use the orbiter on the set because I feel it dulls the image a bit but maybe I'll have to now.


I'm running the video pattern now ( second pass) and can see the MSNBC bar still faintly on top. Damn


----------



## panasonicHD

Hi,


I'm new here. I just bought a Panasonic TC-P50X1 this past week. I went and downloaded the break-in software on this site. I've been running it for 38 hours. And then it just dawned on me that the DVD has been running in widescreen view...when I should have been running it in full screen or zoom. Therefore the slideshow has been running with the top and bottom black bars. What should I do? Should I run the DVD for the next 38 hours at full screen to compensate for the 38 hours that it was running in widescreen? Is there a way to undo what I did? Thanks.


----------



## jodiuh

Just picked up a Panasonic 42S1. Did the break in slides for 2 hours before I flipped out and watched Star Wars...in letterbox. Then I played MW2 for a couple hours. After that I browsed the web for an hour. I think 10 hours of Football tomorrow should round out my "break in".


----------



## DRC72

My parents picked up a 600Hz LG Plasma set a few weeks ago. Picture quality is incredible, anyways IR was kind of problem in the beginning. They watch a particular channel that always displays a logo on the bottom right hand of the screen. In the beginning of use the logo would produce a very noticeable IR image, but as the set gets used more and more the image is not as apparent. Plus after watching two hours of Hi-Def content without any logos, the screen clears itself of any IR including that logo. So while I do expect the logo to ghost back onto the screen, I'm not worried as watching logo free content for a few hours will clear the screen of any IR. In other words lighten up. The technology has improved enough for the problem to rid itself.


----------



## slv300e

I made a thread about my IR issues, but I will try to post them here as part of the IR thread. Here was my last post.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I got my bloody valentine on blu ray tonight. I watched it the whole way through and it completely filled the screen (no bars whatsoever). I watched it in movie mode with a contrast of 75.


With about 15 min left in the film I put the subtitles on. By the time the film was over, i could see what looked like 3 blurry white bars in the middle of the screen where the subtitles would appear. I never paused it or anything. There was no legible text, just some white areas.


This IR was only visible in a dark or black scene. I did not notice it when I began watching normal television. Im VERY dissapointed that this happened. I cant believe there was noticeable IR even when there was moving text!!


I havent checked in the service menu yet but Im probably at about 50 or so hours. At this point, I feel like I want to package this thing up and return it to the store first thing in the morning. If anybody can help me get out of the 15% restocking fee Ill really appreciate it.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slv300e* /forum/post/17794516
> 
> 
> I made a thread about my IR issues, but I will try to post them here as part of the IR thread. Here was my last post.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> So I got my bloody valentine on blu ray tonight. I watched it the whole way through and it completely filled the screen (no bars whatsoever). I watched it in movie mode with a contrast of 75.
> 
> 
> With about 15 min left in the film I put the subtitles on. By the time the film was over, i could see what looked like 3 blurry white bars in the middle of the screen where the subtitles would appear. I never paused it or anything. There was no legible text, just some white areas.
> 
> 
> This IR was only visible in a dark or black scene. I did not notice it when I began watching normal television. Im VERY dissapointed that this happened. I cant believe there was noticeable IR even when there was moving text!!
> 
> 
> I havent checked in the service menu yet but Im probably at about 50 or so hours. At this point, I feel like I want to package this thing up and return it to the store first thing in the morning. If anybody can help me get out of the 15% restocking fee Ill really appreciate it.



IR does happen on most plasmas so don't fret, it will dissipate and disappear quickly...read up on this forum and you will quickly learn that temporay IR is quickly erased by watching more content...


----------



## Tigerriot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rumba* /forum/post/17790836
> 
> 
> I watch MSNBC a fair amount on my Pioneer 111 ( Matthews, Ollberman, Maddow) and their graphics now have an annoying white bar across the top of the screen throughout their programing. I certainly watch plenty of other material so thought nothing of it as far as IR. Last night I was watching a film and noticed in a bright blue sky sequence the faint image of a bar across the top of the screen and could also barely make out the MSNBC logo. Stunned at this ( especially as I haven't watched any MSNBC for days) I ran the video pattern before I went to bed. I sure hope it does the trick. I don't use the orbiter on the set because I feel it dulls the image a bit but maybe I'll have to now.
> 
> 
> I'm running the video pattern now ( second pass) and can see the MSNBC bar still faintly on top. Damn



That's impossible. Various people on this forum have been saying for years that burn-in on plsmas is basically a thing of the past, unless of course the tv is "abused". I'm sure it's just your fault for watching MSNBC.


/sarcasm


----------



## 4436time

My 6020FD is well past the break-in period (based on information taken from this forum) and, since I have nothing to compare it to, I'm curious whether a process exists for determining whether it needs to be calibrated? It still looks good, IMO, but if it can be made to look better... Thanks


----------



## slv300e




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *4436time* /forum/post/17802175
> 
> 
> My 6020FD is well past the break-in period (based on information taken from this forum) and, since I have nothing to compare it to, I'm curious whether a process exists for determining whether it needs to be calibrated? It still looks good, IMO, but if it can be made to look better... Thanks



From what I understand, if it hasnt been calibrated chances are the picture quality can improve. If it has been properly calibrated after the break in period was done, I dont think another calibration would be beneficial..unless of course plasmas need to be calibrated several times over the course of their life??


----------



## akadennis

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I posted on here. I have owned the Kuro for almost 2 years now. I never used the built in screen protection features because stupid me thought it took away from the picture quality. Anyway I now notice the channel 5 fox logo burned in whenever the screen has a bright white scene. Is there anyway to get this to go away? I tried the screen saving video pattern but I still see the channel 5 logo while the white bar is going accross the screen. Thanks 2 all who respond to me. PS I did not use the break in DVD.


----------



## Quadricept

I have attempted to run the slides from D-Nice on an SD card on my P50X1, it will display the first slide and then give me an error. When looking at all thumbs on the TV ( :: )it appears as tho the TV is trying to display the remaining lines of the slide (1080p-720p=350 lines(?))as the next slide?

Are there 720p specific slides available. I realize this doesn't make sense.

Thanks!

Qt


----------



## Dude77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Quadricept* /forum/post/17824520
> 
> 
> I have attempted to run the slides from D-Nice on an SD card on my P50X1, it will display the first slide and then give me an error. When looking at all thumbs on the TV ( :: )it appears as tho the TV is trying to display the remaining lines of the slide (1080p-720p=350 lines(?))as the next slide?
> 
> Are there 720p specific slides available. I realize this doesn't make sense.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Qt



Sounds like a problem with your SD card. I would reformat the card and download the slides again.

If you use a Mac, it will load hidden files on the card that have to be deleted. Some here might know how.


----------



## tommyjitsu

Just bought a new 50 inch G15 and the guy at the store recommended breaking it in by watching full screen hd for the first 100 hrs or so. Should I go this route or should I use the thumbdrive pics and settings in the 1st post by d nice in the panny 12 g thread?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tommyjitsu* /forum/post/17827201
> 
> 
> Just bought a new 50 inch G15 and the guy at the store recommended breaking it in by watching full screen hd for the first 100 hrs or so. Should I go this route or should I use the thumbdrive pics and settings in the 1st post by d nice in the panny 12 g thread?



Either method is fine. I just watched full-screen HD to break in both of my Panny plasmas. Put it in THX mode and forget about it.


----------



## chirurgeon

I just got a Panny 42" TCPS1. It arrived on Monday and I have been trying to break it in. The thing that is bugging me is the logo in the corner of so many tv stations. How much do I have to worry about these? To be honest most of my tv watching is done via DVR. I am recording SD mainly for space purposes. I have the TV set for full screen, so I am not worried about the black bars. And for the live broadcast shows that haven't been recorded in HD, I am watching the SD channel so it is in full screen. I figure with the long weekend, I will have almost 60 hours of break in done. I also got one of those Blu Scene Blu rays and I have been playing that when I'm not in the room. I can't believe how good SD looks.


----------



## jodiuh

Since day one I have been gaming, browsing, tv watching, and just generally abusing the thing. Nearly 2 weeks later, I haven't seen any IR @ all. I run the slides occasionally and let the rolling bar go to town if I have to run to the other room. But I'm not watching anything zoomed in and play games w/ huds for hours.


----------



## tdboze

I am new to Plasma. I have been through several forum topics here over the last month or two researching which set I wanted to purchase, etc...so I may have already read and forgotten the answer to my question somewhere (possibly this forum). Forgive me if this has already been covered.


If the point of the 250 hr break-in is to "age" the cells (and you are using full screen slides shown in loop only with *no* normal programing, video games, etc...), wouldn't it make sense to increase the cell light and other settings during that time frame rather than back them off? Maybe I'm way off base here (I am definately not an AV resource). Are the cells more susceptible to damage from higher currents/voltages, or temps during that period?


I'm sure someone will be able to provide insight. Thanks for all the posts. The amount of information I have acquired (and in some cases already forgotten) is staggering!


Thanks


----------



## booker21

play a lot of demon soul the las 4 days it's possible to get burn in on a display which already has over 2000hs


After 2hs of watching a movie and a few minutes of white wash I'm still seeing pArt of the life bar on the display.


Already had de orbiter on btw


my tv is a lg plasma pg60


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tdboze* /forum/post/17835558
> 
> 
> I am new to Plasma. I have been through several forum topics here over the last month or two researching which set I wanted to purchase, etc...so I may have already read and forgotten the answer to my question somewhere (possibly this forum). Forgive me if this has already been covered.
> 
> 
> If the point of the 250 hr break-in is to "age" the cells (and you are using full screen slides shown in loop only with *no* normal programing, video games, etc...), wouldn't it make sense to increase the cell light and other settings during that time frame rather than back them off? Maybe I'm way off base here (I am definately not an AV resource). Are the cells more susceptible to damage from higher currents/voltages, or temps during that period?
> 
> 
> I'm sure someone will be able to provide insight. Thanks for all the posts. The amount of information I have acquired (and in some cases already forgotten) is staggering!
> 
> 
> Thanks



Either method is fine but you don't need to avoid using your TV for its intended purposes. Feel free to enjoy some HD programming, Blu-rays and video games.


----------



## Spanbauer

I have an interesting inquiry. Let's say someone watches pillarbox or 2.35:1 aspect content 25-50% of the time their plasma is on. Presuming that phosphors age based on luminance, wouldn't those black areas age less then the center of the screen, and inevitably over time reveal themselves as uneven phosphor wear on bright screens? What I'm asking is, isn't uneven wear in this situation inevitable given enough time, and if not...why not? Thanks.


----------



## pitnyelder

I am seriously dismayed to have to report that I've had my first incidence of IR on my Panasonic 46G10, and it's what I'd consider severe.


I played a lot of Assassin's Creed II on my 360 over the weekend, which is a game featuring a very static and prominent HUD. I'm well past 100 hours, if not 200 (I haven't checked recently, have had the set two months) so I figured I was totally safe. Apparently, I was wrong. I guess I played _too_ much without mixing it up, because when I powered the set on last night, I was greeted by a VERY prominent dark image of the HUD before the image from my cable box was displayed.


It was my hope that it would been soon washed away by watching normal HD programming; however, while it _has_ significantly faded, four hours later portions of the HUD were still visible when that portion of the screen is displaying certain solid colors. At that point, I needed to go to bed, so I powered the set off for the night. I'll go back home this evening and start in with more HD watching in hopes of fulling washing the IR away.


Looking for opinions: How much longer should I wait for the image to fully fade before I completely panic, call it burn-in, and smash myself in the face with a hammer for destroying a $1,000 display?


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pitnyelder* /forum/post/17852438
> 
> 
> I am seriously dismayed to have to report that I've had my first incidence of IR on my Panasonic 46G10, and it's what I'd consider severe.
> 
> 
> I played a lot of Assassin's Creed II on my 360 over the weekend, which is a game featuring a very static and prominent HUD. I'm well past 100 hours, if not 200 (I haven't checked recently, have had the set two months) so I figured I was totally safe. Apparently, I was wrong. I guess I played _too_ much without mixing it up, because when I powered the set on last night, I was greeted by a VERY prominent dark image of the HUD before the image from my cable box was displayed.
> 
> 
> It was my hope that it would been soon washed away by watching normal HD programming; however, while it _has_ significantly faded, four hours later portions of the HUD were still visible when that portion of the screen is displaying certain solid colors. At that point, I needed to go to bed, so I powered the set off for the night. I'll go back home this evening and start in with more HD watching in hopes of fulling washing the IR away.
> 
> 
> Looking for opinions: How much longer should I wait for the image to fully fade before I completely panic, call it burn-in, and smash myself in the face with a hammer for destroying a $1,000 display?



I would say give it a day or two or more. Stay away from AC2 for a while though. Plus if you're only noticing it on no signal screens, I wouldn't worry.


Maybe set the set to power off automatically overnight if possible on a station with no bugs. Set the sleep mode that way it gets some extra usage out of it.


----------



## pitnyelder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17855153
> 
> 
> I would say give it a day or two or more. Stay away from AC2 for a while though. Plus if you're only noticing it on no signal screens, I wouldn't worry.
> 
> 
> Maybe set the set to power off automatically overnight if possible on a station with no bugs. Set the sleep mode that way it gets some extra usage out of it.



Well, it's not only on no signal screens, that's just where it's most obviously noticeable. I can make it out on a regular image, but only when it's a solid bright color, and often I have to struggle to make it out; I'd say 90% of the time during normal programming, it's invisible. And fortunately, I'd finished off AC2, so I won't be going back there at all.


I plan to run the screen wiper for a good while tonight, hopefully that will clean it the rest of the way off.


----------



## soccerman7

Sorry for the stupid question but during the break in period using the break in disk can I still watch regular TV druing the day and use the break in disc at night? Is this advisable or is better to not watch any TV until I have logged 150 to 200 hours using the breakin disc.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## jjthenovice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soccerman7* /forum/post/17857769
> 
> 
> Sorry for the stupid question but during the break in period using the break in disk can I still watch regular TV druing the day and use the break in disc at night? Is this advisable or is better to not watch any TV until I have logged 150 to 200 hours using the breakin disc.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Go ahead and enjoy your TV and continue the breakin process as well. When watching your Tv, you're breaking it in. Just keep the contrast and brightness down a tad (no torch mode). Also, try to watch everything in full screen mode (you may have to use the zoom or stretch).


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DRC72* /forum/post/17793108
> 
> 
> My parents picked up a 600Hz LG Plasma set a few weeks ago. Picture quality is incredible, anyways IR was kind of problem in the beginning. They watch a particular channel that always displays a logo on the bottom right hand of the screen. In the beginning of use the logo would produce a very noticeable IR image, but as the set gets used more and more the image is not as apparent. Plus after watching two hours of Hi-Def content without any logos, the screen clears itself of any IR including that logo. So while I do expect the logo to ghost back onto the screen, I'm not worried as watching logo free content for a few hours will clear the screen of any IR. In other words lighten up. The technology has improved enough for the problem to rid itself.



I would say having to wait two hours for the screen to clear the logo is TOO LONG! I wouldn't want to have to see a ghost logo on the screen while watching other content. If ghost images take longer than a few seconds to go away, that's too long for me.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/17855153
> 
> 
> I would say give it a day or two or more. Stay away from AC2 for a while though. Plus if you're only noticing it on no signal screens, I wouldn't worry.
> 
> 
> Maybe set the set to power off automatically overnight if possible on a station with no bugs. Set the sleep mode that way it gets some extra usage out of it.



LOL...stay away from AC2... Do you really think people that want to consider Plasma for their next purchase, want to hear that? After reading a lot of posts in this forum, it appears IR is STILL a problem with current plasma models. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want a display device that keeps an after-image, and where I have to play a burn-in disc for several hours before that ghost image disappears.


----------



## OldPannyMan

I am trying to decide if plasmas are getting worse not better. I have a Panny TC-P65V10arriving this week and came upon this forum and this thread by accident. What I am wondering after reading more pages than I have ever seen on one subject,lol, is how my 2003 Panny TH-50PHD5UY is even viewable after the way I broke it in. I knew nothing about breaking in a plasma until about an hour or so ago when I read this thread, I brought the old one home, hung it on the wall turned it on.... the picture was spectacular and never adjusted anything or dimmed anything. I have watched everything from day one that according to this thread, should have 'burned in' and IR'd the screen into submission by now, yet the picture is stiil beautiful ( just had a compliment from company that was over for the Rose parade and football), the only reason I am getting the new unit is I want BIGGER. We have a Panny TH-42PD50U in the bedroom that is over 2 years old that we broke in the same way and we have never seen any type of IR on either unit.


So my question is after reading everything here, is all the breakin described here really necessary or is the fact that we watch every type of program and format,HD & SD, full screen,letterbox,etc,etc just as good a break in, or did we just get lucky with the two sets we own and we should possibly do a testimonial for Panasonic, lol.


----------



## DRC72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/17858523
> 
> 
> I would say having to wait two hours for the screen to clear the logo is TOO LONG! I wouldn't want to have to see a ghost logo on the screen while watching other content. If ghost images take longer than a few seconds to go away, that's too long for me.



At this point it shows up faintly, so I am not to worried about it. The main thing is it keeps getting washed away.


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/17859054
> 
> 
> LOL...stay away from AC2... Do you really think people that want to consider Plasma for their next purchase, want to hear that? After reading a lot of posts in this forum, it appears IR is STILL a problem with current plasma models. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want a display device that keeps an after-image, and where I have to play a burn-in disc for several hours before that ghost image disappears.



You don't have to play some burn in disc anytime you happen to have IR, just watch something different. Do you really watch only ONE thing on your set? Normal use does not create IR, and IR always goes away. I would rather deal with the minor issue of IR versus taking a PQ hit with a LCD. Plus it's like playing Russian roulette trying to get one without a flaw.


For the record, I have had IR on a couple of things: Madden 10, NCAA 09, and Batman Arkham Asylum. ALL have gone away while watching regular TV within a matter of minutes. Actually even seconds. NOTHING has shown through regular viewing that interrupts my viewing pleasure.


Plus my set is on ESPN 80% of it's hours. Shouldn't I have a permanent ticker following me everywhere?


----------



## arthurking

Exactly! That is just not a solution at all. There are still people outthere that claim IR is not a problem anymore on modern plasma. When you point this thread to them, they will again say this is not IR but something else. really funny.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/17859054
> 
> 
> LOL...stay away from AC2... Do you really think people that want to consider Plasma for their next purchase, want to hear that? After reading a lot of posts in this forum, it appears IR is STILL a problem with current plasma models. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want a display device that keeps an after-image, and where I have to play a burn-in disc for several hours before that ghost image disappears.


----------



## therealjustin

I played NFS:Shift, the GT5 demo and a demo of Peggle with the PS3 for about 2-3 hours last night and noticed after I turned the PS3 off I could make out the gauges and a few bars on the black screen. This being my first plasma I freaked out for a second until I ran the scrolling white bar for a few passes and switched over to a full screen channel. 10 minutes later and the ghost images had disappeared.


Panasonic P46U1 with about 500 hours.


----------



## Brando70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/17859054
> 
> 
> LOL...stay away from AC2... Do you really think people that want to consider Plasma for their next purchase, want to hear that? After reading a lot of posts in this forum, it appears IR is STILL a problem with current plasma models. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want a display device that keeps an after-image, and where I have to play a burn-in disc for several hours before that ghost image disappears.



99% of the the IR issue is people overreacting to IR. Note that in most cases, people say they can't see it during normal viewing, or only for an instant on a solid color, and that it goes away eventually. That's normal behavior for plasmas and won't ruin the set.


Sometimes IR is a little persistent and may require some extra steps to get rid of, but the point is its temporary. The little bit of extra effort is worth it for the better picture you get with plasma over LCD in my opinion.


----------



## OldPannyMan

So I can load the color slides on an sd card, set my setting down to about 50% and turn the TV on playing just the sd card for 24/7 straight for the next 5 days and then be good to go. Is this an alright way to do it or is it not good to run it 24/7 for 5 days?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OldPannyMan* /forum/post/17885621
> 
> 
> So I can load the color slides on an sd card, set my setting down to about 50% and turn the TV on playing just the sd card for 24/7 straight for the next 5 days and then be good to go. Is this an alright way to do it or is it not good to run it 24/7 for 5 days?



This is fine but not necessary, you can watch some TV too. You can even watch some BDs or DVDs, with or without black bars, and do a little gaming too. Just vary your programming a little and enjoy your TV.


----------



## tietherope

I just woke up to find out that I forgot to loop the content I was playing overnight or rolled over and hit pause while sleeping and the Playstation 3 pause logo has been sitting in the corner of the screen on my PN50B530 for the last 5 hours. I switched to a black screen and of course there was IR. I started running the white scrolling bars and 3 minutes later it was gone. I was very impressed and it has made me not as worried about gaming in the future. From reading some stories in this thread I was expecting it to be there for hours or even longer.


Thanks for the info everyone, this thread has been helpful.


----------



## jodiuh

3 weeks and I've yet to see any IR at all. Maybe I'm just not noticing it? I haven't done the slides, browse the web for hours, play games, watch football...basically abuse it like a pro.


----------



## onejake

Curious. After reading through this thread, and others... it seems many that suffer from IR brought it upon themselves. i.e. forgetting the black bars on the top and bottom, watching the same channel for an extraordinary amount of time, keeping the tv tuned to the same channel with logo for too long, etc...


My question is simple.





Has anyone that has purchased a plasma TV ('08 and newer) that has suffered permanent image burn-in?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onejake* /forum/post/17901720
> 
> 
> Curious. After reading through this thread, and others... it seems many that suffer from IR brought it upon themselves. i.e. forgetting the black bars on the top and bottom, watching the same channel for an extraordinary amount of time, keeping the tv tuned to the same channel with logo for too long, etc...
> 
> 
> My question is simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone that has purchased a plasma TV ('08 and newer) that has suffered permanent image burn-in?



You should only hear crickets chirping on this one.


----------



## onejake

I wouldn't expect anyone to post that they have permanent image retention on a newer plasma tv.


However, I'm still running the slides during the break-in period. Why? Why not! It's not going to hurt and it just *may* help, even if it's an infinitesimal amount.


----------



## pearlbluevtx

I just setup my TC-P58S1 in a temporary location to play with it.


I put the colored slides on my sd-card but when viewing the sd-card, every other slide said it's 'not readable' ... or something like that.


Have I done something wrong - I don't see anything on the sd-card that shows additional content other than the image files and the folder that the image files are in.


----------



## XFreeRollerX

Brand new Samsung 58" B650 TV


Contrast set at 95 (out of the box setting) brightness raised to 70, turned off Dynamic contrast, edge enhance, etc


how long do I run the Burn-in slides for? its been going for 3 hours now, I've put 10 minutes of TV time on it


----------



## jodiuh

To those really in the know, calibrators and what not...


Aside from aging the phosphors for getting calibration done quickly, is there any other benefit to the break in slides? After about 3 hours I looked @ the slides and thought to myself, "This is really, really dumb." Why would I want to subject a new electronic device to hours and hours of abuse? So I just loaded up Star Wars (w/ the bars) and watched them all.


Needless to say, it was much more exciting than watching those silly color bars.


----------



## nickmas80

Samsung PN58B860


I didn't do any break-in on my TV and played games and watched movies as normal. When I put a solid white image on and look at an angle I see what looks like very faint smudges all over. I've since run hoooouuurs of break-in slides and scrolling bars but it does not go away. Then I noticed four dark skinny horizontal lines running across it which I do not think were from burn-in. Anyway, I'm getting a new set and am going to run 250 hours minimum with hopes of preventing anything like this from happening. My view is it's better to be safe than sorry.


I have some questions about IR/BI. After 250 hours of break-in, if I play a game for four hours will I get screen burn? Or will this just be IR that will go away after watching something else for a while? Also, what happens if you turn off your TV while there is IR? Does this make it worse? Or when you turn the TV back on it'll still be there but go away after time?


I went with plasma for the response time but IR scares me. I mean, I shouldn't have to feel guilty or scared to play video games or watch videos with bars or logos.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onejake* /forum/post/17901720
> 
> 
> Curious. After reading through this thread, and others... it seems many that suffer from IR brought it upon themselves. i.e. forgetting the black bars on the top and bottom, watching the same channel for an extraordinary amount of time, keeping the tv tuned to the same channel with logo for too long, etc...
> 
> My question is simple.
> 
> Has anyone that has purchased a plasma TV ('08 and newer) that has suffered permanent image burn-in?



What do you mean by "forgetting the black bars"? When I watch a movie, I want to watch in the original aspect ratio. I shouldn't have to zoom in to fit to 16:9, just because of being scared of IR, or uneven wear on the screen. Also, wasting electricity and having to run a wipe across the screen is very inconvenient.


----------



## Dude77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pearlbluevtx* /forum/post/17912774
> 
> 
> I just setup my TC-P58S1 in a temporary location to play with it.
> 
> 
> I put the colored slides on my sd-card but when viewing the sd-card, every other slide said it's 'not readable' ... or something like that.
> 
> 
> Have I done something wrong - I don't see anything on the sd-card that shows additional content other than the image files and the folder that the image files are in.



Sounds like you're using a mac. There is a fix somewhere on this thread. You'll need to delete some duplicate files from what I remember.


----------



## fourtytwoinch

Over a day of MW-2, tons of black bar TV because I watch a lot of HD directv channels on their SD stations and days of ESPN.


I get IR but not burn-in. IR goes away quick now. IR is still rather annoying sometimes.


----------



## tivofish

I just purchased my first Plasma, a 42" Samsung model PN42B450B1D and I think it may have a problem that is not IR but I need some input.


After having the TV for a couple days and about 15 hours on it I began to notice a rectangle in the very center of the screen that is brighter than the rest of the screen. I did play about 3 hours of Assassin's Creed 2 on my XBOX 360 during the first 15 hours of use, but turned down the torch mode significantly and also had a lot of other HD full screen content.


The block looks to be about 2-3 inches high by 1/2-1 inch wide and is in the very center of the screen. It is only noticeable with an all white screen or a very light color screen.


Since I first noticed the block I thought it might be IR so I ran the screen wipe routine for about 5 hours and have used the break in color screens for another 20 hours or so as well as probably 20 additional hours of full screen content.


The block seems a little less bright than when I first noticed it but I am thinking now that it couldn't be IR because I have used the TV so much since then.


I can still exchange this TV for another 10 days or so and am seriously contemplating it at this point. Any input on what this might be? Should I take the TV back?


----------



## tietherope

I am at 105 hours of break in on my Samsung PN50B530 and still get IR very quickly. If I have the PS3 home screen up for less than 30 seconds and switch to a black screen I can still see and read everything clearly. I can also see it on white screens and some other colors. I played PixelJunk Racers for about 12 minutes and could see the PixelJunk logo while watching HD content on any color/scene from my regular viewing point 10 feet away. Playing for just that 12 minutes took about 45 minutes to go away.


I passed what some consider to be the break in period required and I really hope this will happen less as time goes on. I read many people say they never see IR, yet I can see it from 10 feet away and it doesn't "go away in a few seconds" either. I am loving the picture but if I have to play my PS3 in half hour increments so it does not hinder PQ when I watch something else the TV will have to go back.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tietherope* /forum/post/17930001
> 
> 
> I am at 105 hours of break in on my Samsung PN50B530 and still get IR very quickly. If I have the PS3 home screen up for less than 30 seconds and switch to a black screen I can still see and read everything clearly. I can also see it on white screens and some other colors. I played PixelJunk Racers for about 12 minutes and could see the PixelJunk logo while watching HD content on any color/scene from my regular viewing point 10 feet away. Playing for just that 12 minutes took about 45 minutes to go away.
> 
> 
> I passed what some consider to be the break in period required and I really hope this will happen less as time goes on. I read many people say they never see IR, yet I can see it from 10 feet away and it doesn't "go away in a few seconds" either. I am loving the picture but if I have to play my PS3 in half hour increments so it does not hinder PQ when I watch something else the TV will have to go back.



IR is gonna happen...I would stop fussing over it and just enjoy your panel. In the end it won't affect picture quality, so why worry?


----------



## tietherope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/17930049
> 
> 
> IR is gonna happen...I would stop fussing over it and just enjoy your panel. In the end it won't affect picture quality, so why worry?



If you read my post you will see that it does affect the picture quality. Last night I was watching Conan and could clearly see the IR the whole time. At that point I don't think it is simply fussing over it but I am genuinely concerned if it will decrease or not.


----------



## nickmas80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tietherope* /forum/post/17930198
> 
> 
> If you read my post you will see that it does affect the picture quality. Last night I was watching Conan and could clearly see the IR the whole time. At that point I don't think it is simply fussing over it but I am genuinely concerned if it will decrease or not.



I do a lot of gaming as well but on Xbox. What picture settings do you use while playing? Also, do you turn on game mode?


----------



## tietherope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickmas80* /forum/post/17932818
> 
> 
> I do a lot of gaming as well but on Xbox. What picture settings do you use while playing? Also, do you turn on game mode?



I do use game mode however I turn off Dynamic Contrast. Other than being a different color temperature the brightness (45) seems ok to me. If I am wrong let me know but I can barely see anything when I use the same settings I would for TV or movies.


----------



## Spanbauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spanbauer* /forum/post/17850204
> 
> 
> I have an interesting inquiry. Let's say someone watches pillarbox or 2.35:1 aspect content 25-50% of the time their plasma is on. Presuming that phosphors age based on luminance, wouldn't those black areas age less then the center of the screen, and inevitably over time reveal themselves as uneven phosphor wear on bright screens? What I'm asking is, isn't uneven wear in this situation inevitable given enough time, and if not...why not? Thanks.



Anybody?


----------



## nickmas80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spanbauer* /forum/post/17850204
> 
> 
> I have an interesting inquiry. Let's say someone watches pillarbox or 2.35:1 aspect content 25-50% of the time their plasma is on. Presuming that phosphors age based on luminance, wouldn't those black areas age less then the center of the screen, and inevitably over time reveal themselves as uneven phosphor wear on bright screens? What I'm asking is, isn't uneven wear in this situation inevitable given enough time, and if not...why not? Thanks.



I don't know much about the science of plasma TVs but to an extent your idea sounds possible. I actually had that same thought because of the way my TV was acting but it was a different problem. Anyway, the unbalance of phosphor wear would depend on how much the phosphors wear in total and at what rate. If the phosphors wear continuously in a linear fashion then less used/worn phosphors would never catch up to the more used/worn phosphors, which seems to be your idea. However, the phosphor might wear in more of a negative exponential way. This would cause the biggest difference in wear between phosphors at the beginning of use but then become minimal as time went on. Again, I don't know the details of phosphor wear so I just made some statements based on Algebra.


I found this, can't guarantee it's reliability though:

plasmatvbuying.com "In fact, many plasma manufacturers boast a life span of 60,000 hours to half life! This is a longer life than a tube based television... After 1000 hours of usage a plasma monitor should measure around 96% of its original brightness, which is barely noticeable to the naked eye. At 15,000 to 20,000 hours the monitor should measure around 80% brightness, or to state is technically, 80% of the original phosphors (gases) are being ignited.


----------



## Mikef2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rumba* /forum/post/17790836
> 
> 
> I watch MSNBC a fair amount on my Pioneer 111 ( Matthews, Ollberman, Maddow) and their graphics now have an annoying white bar across the top of the screen throughout their programing. I certainly watch plenty of other material so thought nothing of it as far as IR. Last night I was watching a film and noticed in a bright blue sky sequence the faint image of a bar across the top of the screen and could also barely make out the MSNBC logo. Stunned at this ( especially as I haven't watched any MSNBC for days) I ran the video pattern before I went to bed. I sure hope it does the trick. I don't use the orbiter on the set because I feel it dulls the image a bit but maybe I'll have to now.
> 
> 
> I'm running the video pattern now ( second pass) and can see the MSNBC bar still faintly on top. Damn




The exact same thing happened to me just this morning. First time I have noticed any prolonged IR on my Panasonic TCP-58V10. I'm fine with this as long as it;s temporary, but after running the Anti-Image Retention Bar the Panny has for 5 minutes and after 30 minutes of full screen programming, the IR was still there. I had to go to work, so I won't know till after I get home if it has gone away.


Should I be worried?


----------



## mreynolds767

Thought I would post a calming thread to all plasma owners.


I bought a plasma when the technology was relatively new and extremely expensive.

Sony XBR 50" plasma.

I also just bought a new plasma, Samsung 58" made in 2009

The difference in IR is night and day improved.

Back when I bought the first plasma stories of permanate burn-in where commonplace, though most where screens used at airports or running a stock ticker at the bottom all day; but with the older set watching a letterbox movie, pausing a menu screen, playing a game IR was instantly visible.

I never had burn-in permanent issues and any IR was temporary and gone within minutes from what I recall. I babied it for the first few years so worried that I would ruin a $7K TV.

That said, this new 2009 set in comparsion shows absolutely not IR and I have just purchased but am abusing it however I want and not wasting my time on slides or breaking in the set. The advances are obvious and I never had burn in on my old set without these advances, so I offically have no burn in fear and hopefully this adds some level of comfort to other users here.

They have come a long way and I no longer believe burn in is a concern.

I don;t advise wasting bulb life and electricity "breaking in" your set.


----------



## Spanbauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickmas80* /forum/post/17956136
> 
> 
> I don't know much about the science of plasma TVs but to an extent your idea sounds possible. I actually had that same thought because of the way my TV was acting but it was a different problem. Anyway, the unbalance of phosphor wear would depend on how much the phosphors wear in total and at what rate. If the phosphors wear continuously in a linear fashion then less used/worn phosphors would never catch up to the more used/worn phosphors, which seems to be your idea. However, the phosphor might wear in more of a negative exponential way. This would cause the biggest difference in wear between phosphors at the beginning of use but then become minimal as time went on. Again, I don't know the details of phosphor wear so I just made some statements based on Algebra.
> 
> 
> I found this, can't guarantee it's reliability though:
> 
> plasmatvbuying.com "In fact, many plasma manufacturers boast a life span of 60,000 hours to half life! This is a longer life than a tube based television... After 1000 hours of usage a plasma monitor should measure around 96% of its original brightness, which is barely noticeable to the naked eye. At 15,000 to 20,000 hours the monitor should measure around 80% brightness, or to state is technically, 80% of the original phosphors (gases) are being ignited.



Thanks for the reply *nickmas80*. If a panel drops 4% brightness after just 1,000 hours, then watching pillar-box or letterbox content half the time would cause that area of your screen to conceivably be 2% lighter/darker than the center of the screen, no? And after only 1,000 hours, no less. That seems like a lot to me, considering black levels are measured and debated in tenths and hundreths of a percentile.


----------



## nickmas80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spanbauer* /forum/post/17961594
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply *nickmas80*. If a panel drops 4% brightness after just 1,000 hours, then watching pillar-box or letterbox content half the time would cause that area of your screen to conceivably be 2% lighter/darker than the center of the screen, no? And after only 1,000 hours, no less. That seems like a lot to me, considering black levels are measured and debated in tenths and hundreths of a percentile.



It's hard to say without scientific details. For instance, another variable is the maximum rate of wear between two phosphors. Assuming that a phosphor in the black bar area is wearing at ~0% versus one in the viewing area wearing at ~100%, then the difference in the long run could be substantial. Based on forum discussions it seems that brighter colors wear phosphors faster but I wonder if the added work of changing colors wear them even more.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but burn in just seems to be extreme/permanent image retention. If burn in is caused by uneven wear then I don't know why the effects can't be reversed. Why can't we make images or videos that work the black bar areas and not the regular viewing portion of the screen. And wouldn't it be possible (although difficult) to do the same for logos?


I found more articles that people may want to read regarding screen burn and image retention:

http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/ 

*Attempts by the HD Guru to create burn-in" (uneven phosphor wear) on 2008 and 2009 model year plasma panels by freeze-framing an image for 10 hours and then switching to a white screen have been unsuccessful. No burn-in occurred. We also checked out demo plasma HDTVs at retail stores and found no burn-in" on any of the models tested. This is particularly significant since floor models are traditionally set to showroom mode (usually listed in the user menu as Dynamic or Vivid) in order to produce maximum brightness.*

http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html


----------



## Termpapers

Thanks for sharing this useful info.


----------



## Quadricept




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dude77* /forum/post/17926193
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're using a mac. There is a fix somewhere on this thread. You'll need to delete some duplicate files from what I remember.



Same thing last week. Macs







I could not find _any_ way to delete the phantom unreadable slides. There is a cheap break-in on XBL for a few points tho.


----------



## Spanbauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickmas80* /forum/post/17963898
> 
> 
> It's hard to say without scientific details. For instance, another variable is the maximum rate of wear between two phosphors. Assuming that a phosphor in the black bar area is wearing at ~0% versus one in the viewing area wearing at ~100%, then the difference in the long run could be substantial. Based on forum discussions it seems that brighter colors wear phosphors faster but I wonder if the added work of changing colors wear them even more.
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but burn in just seems to be extreme/permanent image retention. If burn in is caused by uneven wear then I don't know why the effects can't be reversed. Why can't we make images or videos that work the black bar areas and not the regular viewing portion of the screen. And wouldn't it be possible (although difficult) to do the same for logos?



I would think that would theoretically work, yes. But at the very best you'd still have an outline where the original burn in met the reverse burn-in; if you tried to put light bars where the letterbox was you'd never get it exact, especially with the pixel shift moving the original letterbox back and forth 2-4 pixels. So there'd be a pixel or two wide darker or lighter area where the permanent image retention overlapped.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickmas80* /forum/post/17963898
> 
> 
> I found more articles that people may want to read regarding screen burn and image retention:
> 
> http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/
> 
> *Attempts by the HD Guru to create burn-in" (uneven phosphor wear) on 2008 and 2009 model year plasma panels by freeze-framing an image for 10 hours and then switching to a white screen have been unsuccessful. No burn-in occurred. We also checked out demo plasma HDTVs at retail stores and found no burn-in" on any of the models tested. This is particularly significant since floor models are traditionally set to showroom mode (usually listed in the user menu as Dynamic or Vivid) in order to produce maximum brightness.*
> 
> http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html



The problem I see with that test is that it doesn't factor in that image retention/burn-in is apparently cumulative. Accidentally leaving an image on the screen for 10 hours once or twice surely won't do any permanent damage, but if you watched 10 hours of letterboxed or pillarboxed content a week for two years, I imagine the results would be very different. Also, their testing of in-store models is rather insignificant since they always show content that fills the screen and don't have any static images.


----------



## nickmas80




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spanbauer* /forum/post/17977342
> 
> 
> I would think that would theoretically work, yes. But at the very best you'd still have an outline where the original burn in met the reverse burn-in; if you tried to put light bars where the letterbox was you'd never get it exact, especially with the pixel shift moving the original letterbox back and forth 2-4 pixels. So there'd be a pixel or two wide darker or lighter area where the permanent image retention overlapped.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see with that test is that it doesn't factor in that image retention/burn-in is apparently cumulative. Accidentally leaving an image on the screen for 10 hours once or twice surely won't do any permanent damage, but if you watched 10 hours of letterboxed or pillarboxed content a week for two years, I imagine the results would be very different. Also, their testing of in-store models is rather insignificant since they always show content that fills the screen and don't have any static images.



So then I wonder, what if someone plays the same video game for 10 hours a week for a long period of time. I guess the static images would gradually burn in.


----------



## RVelle

Figured I would post here about work Plasmas that we just installed in the last few weeks... I should start off that I own a Sammy LN52A650, and when I first got it, I read everything I could about LCDs, and even though it didnt need it, I still did a little breaking in period...now onto the work Plasmas, all Sammy PN50B530's, installed and just over a week's time of them being installed I had some time to play around with the sets around our center... Everyone there that has an HDTV at home has LCDs, no one knew they should have been broken in for about 200 hours, and the majority of what we need to view at work is...CNBC... the worst of the worst for sets, aka tickers on the top and bottom, logo's etc.


I was playing with the wipe feature (because I dont have it on my Sammy LCD at home, and that is when I saw the bad IR or Burn-in (still dont know what to call it).


So no break-in, CNBC for approx the first 140 hours, have run the wipe for about 6 hours on one set, along with running the TVs on a normal broadcast station (not tickers) for approx 50 hours over this past long weekend (didnt want to run 24/7 as to give them a break as to not overheat). No noticable change in IR/Burn-in, still there unfortunately.


I am still reading through the tons of posts here, but any suggestions that may help, or are those TVs pretty much unchangable becuase they displayed what they did during the break in period?


Thanks...


----------



## James Howlett

I have noticed IR on my TC-P50S1 panasonic. it is one week old and been running breakin/fullscreen content since the beginning (except for a half hour or so at the unboxing i watched a 1080p movie that was, 2.35:1, started reading about proper breakin. still under 200 hours. hit the 100 mark and popped in Lord of the Rings for a bit, after a couple hours i switched to check something and though about if i had any IR from my viewing session, and I had letterbox IR, about a minute of "wiping if" and if was gone, but im still gunshy about 2.35:1 movies right now.


----------



## Spanbauer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickmas80* /forum/post/17978900
> 
> 
> So then I wonder, what if someone plays the same video game for 10 hours a week for a long period of time. I guess the static images would gradually burn in.



Knowing that phosphors naturally lose brightness over time, I can't understand how it couldn't. Unless the displayed content of the phosphors (be it solid black or solid white) has no impact on the rate at which they age, but if that were the case then temporary image retention wouldn't exist.


----------



## iamnotmad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Quadricept* /forum/post/17972255
> 
> 
> Same thing last week. Macs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could not find _any_ way to delete the phantom unreadable slides. There is a cheap break-in on XBL for a few points tho.



Here is what you want to do:


open up a terminal in OSX (it's in utilities). Type:

cd /Volumes

Then type cd


*note that this is all case sensitive. Also you can start typing and hit the tab key and it will finish for you. If the name is "My Mem Card" you could type cd My and it will finish for you handling the spaces appropriately (as long as the part you typed is unique).


Type ls -a to get a directory listing.


keep doing cd
until you get to the directory where your pics are.


once you are there, type ls -a to see all the files in the directory, you will see duplicates of all the pics that begin with a ".".


type rm ./.*.jpg


that's it. You can do another ls -a to see.


Hope that helps.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

I just placed I think 20 images from download section onto a usb drive and have it on the PS3 running right now.



Is this a better alternative than the DVD?


Also, what are most of you doing during this process? Jacking up the contrast or keeping it in the same viewing mode as you would watch regularly?


This is on a Kuro 500m by the way.


----------



## Mikef2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottieBoysName* /forum/post/17996216
> 
> 
> I just placed I think 20 images from download section onto a usb drive and have it on the PS3 running right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a better alternative than the DVD?
> 
> 
> Also, what are most of you doing during this process? Jacking up the contrast or keeping it in the same viewing mode as you would watch regularly?
> 
> 
> This is on a Kuro 500m by the way.



Yes, I'd say it's better. At least you aren't wearing down your DVD players disc drive motor by having spinning non-stop.


----------



## Brian52682

Guys, I just purchased a new Panasonic TC-P42U1. I was just wondering how important it is to do a break-in period. I am rather impatient and don't really want to do the whole break in, lol. Could I play maybe 1 football game at a time that has a still image then watch some movies to get through the break-in process?


----------



## Iocol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian52682* /forum/post/17998529
> 
> 
> Guys, I just purchased a new Panasonic TC-P42U1. I was just wondering how important it is to do a break-in period. I am rather impatient and don't really want to do the whole break in, lol. Could I play maybe 1 football game at a time that has a still image then watch some movies to get through the break-in process?



From all the information I've read on these forums, break-in is not necessary but is recommended if you want your calibration settings to be optimized. You can get the same result by lowering your contrast and other settings and watching regular content for the first 120-150 hours or so. Of course you can watch movies but just try to avoid black bars if you're very paranoid.


I'm very anal so I'm running the slides 24/7 until I hit 120 hours. My concern right now is keeping the TV on all day and night continuously and whether that's bad for the TV (not to mention the electric bill). Other than that, I'd rather be on the safe side and break in the phosphors.


----------



## MountainMan10

I just watched TV at night, and on weekends. Tried to watch only full screen, no black bars. Played the slides during the day while I was at work.


----------



## Suitup

P50G15 being delivered today. Don't know exactly what I'm going to do about break in yet... probably restrict myself to nothing but full screen HDTV content. My unopened copy of Mass Effect 2 is very tempting though.


----------



## hward1

just got my tv a few days ago -- and now just found D's information on break in -- so i made a disc and have started the break in period with settings -- but the first few days i have been watching SD tv with it -- is it going to make a difference or am i ok by starting now -- probably have about 15 hrs or so on it with regular tv watching -- any help thanks - oh yea this tv doesnt look good out of the box like the samsung i owned that buzzed did -- help me make it better guys!!!


----------



## Chicago2016




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mreynolds767* /forum/post/17957712
> 
> 
> Thought I would post a calming thread to all plasma owners.
> 
> 
> I bought a plasma when the technology was relatively new and extremely expensive.
> 
> Sony XBR 50" plasma.
> 
> I also just bought a new plasma, Samsung 58" made in 2009
> 
> The difference in IR is night and day improved.
> 
> Back when I bought the first plasma stories of permanate burn-in where commonplace, though most where screens used at airports or running a stock ticker at the bottom all day; but with the older set watching a letterbox movie, pausing a menu screen, playing a game IR was instantly visible.
> 
> I never had burn-in permanent issues and any IR was temporary and gone within minutes from what I recall. I babied it for the first few years so worried that I would ruin a $7K TV.
> 
> That said, this new 2009 set in comparsion shows absolutely not IR and I have just purchased but am abusing it however I want and not wasting my time on slides or breaking in the set. The advances are obvious and I never had burn in on my old set without these advances, so I offically have no burn in fear and hopefully this adds some level of comfort to other users here.
> 
> They have come a long way and I no longer believe burn in is a concern.
> 
> I don;t advise wasting bulb life and electricity "breaking in" your set.



I couldn't agree more. I have a PZ77U from '07 and I never worried about IR. Yes, it happened in the beginning and I called Panny and they said it was normal and nothing to worry about and they were right. It went away and I never used any break in slides OR calibrated it and you know what? The picture looks OUTSTANDING today. I just bought a P54G10 and I don't plan on treating this tv any differently. Too much discussion about the behavior of phosphors and crushing of blacks. Relax people. It's a tv. Enjoy it.


----------



## spivonious

I'm looking around for a new TV and am attracted to plasmas by the deeper blacks and richer colors over LCD, but I have to admit that IR is a bit of a disappointment. After the TV has been broken-in, how long do these ghost images take to disappear? If I go from a white screen to a black screen, will my screen be gray for a couple seconds?


----------



## vlishgnath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spivonious* /forum/post/18048507
> 
> 
> After the TV has been broken-in, how long do these ghost images take to disappear?



Assuming you aren't suffering from the rising black level and IR issue, standard IR should go away within a a minute of washing the screen with a fullscreen image (watch tv for a few minutes). If you still have a static image on the screen that you can see from your couch after like a day of watching fullscreen TV... well, welcome to the club


----------



## FlynP5

I wouldn't even worry about the IR issue, maybe in the earlier days of plasma TV's it was a problem, but I've never even seen IR on my Panasonic Plasma in the two years I've owned it.


----------



## spivonious

Thanks Flynn. Did you do any break-in procedures? I'd really like to get a plasma. Saw them side by side at Best Buy last night and the colors are just so much richer than LCD.


----------



## FlynP5

Here's what I did, purchased the GetGray Calibration DVD ( http://www.calibrate.tv/ ), calibrated my plasma so that it was not in "Torch Mode" and that was it. Also watched everything in full screen, including SD which I stretched to fill entire screen.


Here's some more info:
http://samsungplasmatvfaq.com/index....mage_retention


----------



## Activefun

Hi. New here and to plasmas. Can someone please explain what the "slides" are and do they come with the Panny v10?

Thanks


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *visual-era plus* /forum/post/12974510
> 
> 
> Its recommended that you watch full screen no borders for the first few houndred hours as some people have complained that they can see the lines of where the borders were. From what i have read to age the phospers evenly it should be full screen.



Can you watch a v10 in full screen without it stretching or distorting the size of the people on the screen?


----------



## john_a_g




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18052900
> 
> 
> Hi. New here and to plasmas. Can someone please explain what the "slides" are and do they come with the Panny v10?
> 
> Thanks



The idea behind slides is to provide images that will age the phosphors. If you set your TV to continuous slideshow it will keep cycling through the images. In this manner you could run the slides while you're not watching TV. It isn't necessarily any better than watching TV - except you guarantee the image takes up the full screen and you guarantee there won't be logos or tickers or black bars. For instance you wouldn't want to watch ESPN with it's sports ticker 24/7 nor would you want to have 4:3 ratio TV station on (with black bars on right/left) for long periods of time during break in. Basically you're trying to avoid images where certain portions of the screen remain unchanged.


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *john_a_g* /forum/post/18052974
> 
> 
> The idea behind slides is to provide images that will age the phosphors. If you set your TV to continuous slideshow it will keep cycling through the images. In this manner you could run the slides while you're not watching TV. It isn't necessarily any better than watching TV - except you guarantee the image takes up the full screen and you guarantee there won't be logos or tickers or black bars. For instance you wouldn't want to watch ESPN with it's sports ticker 24/7 nor would you want to have 4:3 ratio TV station on (with black bars on right/left) for long periods of time during break in. Basically you're trying to avoid images where certain portions of the screen remain unchanged.



I understand that. Thanks. Where do the images come from in the slide show? Do they come with the tv? or do you need to insert some sort of memory card with your own slides on them?


----------



## john_a_g




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18052997
> 
> 
> I understand that. Thanks. Where do the images come from in the slide show? Do they come with the tv? or do you need to insert some sort of memory card with your own slides on them?



You typically need to use a DVD/blu-ray or memory card. They aren't included as part of the TV. The nice thing about using the memory card is you're not running your DVD/blu-ray so much.


----------



## spivonious

Is break-in required anymore? I see on both Samsung's and Panasonic's websites that their TVs don't require any special treatment during the first 100 hours.


And is there a way to change Media Center to display gray bars instead of black for 4:3 content? I use my HTPC 90% of the time, and about 50% of this is 4:3 TV shows.


----------



## nealgrof

After experiencing burn-in on two Pioneer Elite Signature 141FD floor models from Best Buy, I checked here to look into the experiences of others. I have read the recent posts regarding burn-in of the letterbox bars. Here's the scoop:


I am on my second Pioneer 141FD. The couple of times I went to look at the first one before buying, it was the only display being subjected to "Pirates of the Caribbean;" the other TVs were on the Best Buy program loop. Once I got it home, I was able to see the burn-in from the bars with almost any type of content.


The second 141, interestingly, is not as bad. Similar to the first one I had, when viewing a black or mainly black/dark image, the top and bottom of the screen are clearly "lighter." I wouldn't call them gray, but they are not as black as the center rectangle (2.35:1 area). But with this one, the burn-in is only visible on dark content. BTW, the salesperson estimated that the panel had around 4500 hrs on it.


So, I can vouch. Maybe viewing a letterboxed image for 10 hours will not cause permanent burn-in. But repeat that viewing day after day, week after week, and you have _my_ panel. The real question is whether break-in would have helped. The Panasonic white paper recommends careful viewing in the first _1000_ hours. We can be pretty sure that the displays on the showroom floor at BB/Magnolia are not treated to anything close to this recommended break-in.


If I bought one new, I would run Evangelo's disc for at least the first 200 hrs, followed by only full-screen content with no logos until I had 1000 hours. But, that's just me; I've been BURNED.


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nealgrof* /forum/post/18053293
> 
> 
> After experiencing burn-in on two Pioneer Elite Signature 141FD floor models from Best Buy, I checked here to look into the experiences of others. I have read the recent posts regarding burn-in of the letterbox bars. Here's the scoop:
> 
> 
> I am on my second Pioneer 141FD. The couple of times I went to look at the first one before buying, it was the only display being subjected to "Pirates of the Caribbean;" the other TVs were on the Best Buy program loop. Once I got it home, I was able to see the burn-in from the bars with almost any type of content.
> 
> 
> The second 141, interestingly, is not as bad. Similar to the first one I had, when viewing a black or mainly black/dark image, the top and bottom of the screen are clearly "lighter." I wouldn't call them gray, but they are not as black as the center rectangle (2.35:1 area). But with this one, the burn-in is only visible on dark content. BTW, the salesperson estimated that the panel had around 4500 hrs on it.
> 
> 
> So, I can vouch. Maybe viewing a letterboxed image for 10 hours will not cause permanent burn-in. But repeat that viewing day after day, week after week, and you have _my_ panel. The real question is whether break-in would have helped. The Panasonic white paper recommends careful viewing in the first _1000_ hours. We can be pretty sure that the displays on the showroom floor at BB/Magnolia are not treated to anything close to this recommended break-in.
> 
> 
> If I bought one new, I would run Evangelo's disc for at least the first 200 hrs, followed by only full-screen content with no logos until I had 1000 hours. But, that's just me; I've been BURNED.



Wow, I wont use the tv that much, just the 200 hours will take almost a year lol and I dont think I can wait 1,000 hours to watch a blue ray movie, which will have bars.


----------



## nnarum23

My parents watch movies with letterbox all the time. They've just hit 250 hours and no burn or even a hint of IR. You'll be fine. Just might want to mix in full screen content between movies just in case.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nealgrof* /forum/post/18053293
> 
> 
> After experiencing burn-in on two Pioneer Elite Signature 141FD floor models from Best Buy, I checked here to look into the experiences of others. I have read the recent posts regarding burn-in of the letterbox bars. Here's the scoop:
> 
> 
> I am on my second Pioneer 141FD. The couple of times I went to look at the first one before buying, it was the only display being subjected to "Pirates of the Caribbean;" the other TVs were on the Best Buy program loop. Once I got it home, I was able to see the burn-in from the bars with almost any type of content.
> 
> 
> The second 141, interestingly, is not as bad. Similar to the first one I had, when viewing a black or mainly black/dark image, the top and bottom of the screen are clearly "lighter." I wouldn't call them gray, but they are not as black as the center rectangle (2.35:1 area). But with this one, the burn-in is only visible on dark content. BTW, the salesperson estimated that the panel had around 4500 hrs on it.
> 
> 
> So, I can vouch. Maybe viewing a letterboxed image for 10 hours will not cause permanent burn-in. But repeat that viewing day after day, week after week, and you have _my_ panel. The real question is whether break-in would have helped. The Panasonic white paper recommends careful viewing in the first _1000_ hours. We can be pretty sure that the displays on the showroom floor at BB/Magnolia are not treated to anything close to this recommended break-in.
> 
> 
> If I bought one new, I would run Evangelo's disc for at least the first 200 hrs, followed by only full-screen content with no logos until I had 1000 hours. But, that's just me; I've been BURNED.



That is simply panel abuse...If you purchase NIB under normal viewing conditions in the home it is nothing to be concerned about. This is why you don't buy floor models from BB because they could care less!! And no, break-in would not have helped...it is a myth that break-in helps with IR and BI...the only reason to do break-in is to get the set to the point where it could be calibrated (if you want to get there faster instead of just watching the display normally)...


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18053985
> 
> 
> That is simply panel abuse...If you purchase NIB under normal viewing conditions in the home it is nothing to be concerned about. This is why you don't buy floor models from BB because they could care less!! And no, break-in would not have helped...it is a myth that break-in helps with IR and BI...the only reason to do break-in is to get the set to the point where it could be calibrated (if you want to get there faster instead of just watching the display normally)...



Thats intersting. What is your form of break in?


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18055846
> 
> 
> Thats intersting. What is your form of break in?



Just watching the TV with varied content (i.e. aspect ratios). Do you think that every single person who buys a plasma actually conducts a break-in? No, likley 95% don't and we don't see that 95% complaining about BI, IR or picture quality...


----------



## pfan8

So I just got a TC-P50G10 tonight, and for the most part I'm definitely planning on taking it easy the first 200 hours (fullscreen mode, Cartoon Network, etc.). However, I'm pretty excited to take this think for a spin. Am I OK to check out the occasional BR movie under normal settings as long as I take it easy the rest of the time?


----------



## Trex450

Hi there, I'm a happy 500m owner and now being at about 70 hours of full screen content, I started reading more and I was thinking of using some reference settings from here after the 150 hours break in period. What would you recommend regarding ang's dvd since there is already half the panel aging process done? Would my normal eyes "that already find the picture amazing" see any big difference from using some settings here vs having it pro-calibrated? Sorry for the newbie question.. soon I will answer these







Thanks in advance


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pfan8* /forum/post/18057238
> 
> 
> So I just got a TC-P50G10 tonight, and for the most part I'm definitely planning on taking it easy the first 200 hours (fullscreen mode, Cartoon Network, etc.). However, I'm pretty excited to take this think for a spin. Am I OK to check out the occasional BR movie under normal settings as long as I take it easy the rest of the time?



Be careful. I could be wrong, but check it out, Cartoon Network may say "Cartoon Network" on the bottom right of the screen all the time.


----------



## pfan8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18062629
> 
> 
> Be careful. I could be wrong, but check it out, Cartoon Network may say "Cartoon Network" on the bottom right of the screen all the time.



Yeah, it does, but the picture is on zoom, so the logo is off screen. Do I need to wait a full 120 hours to watch Blu-Ray movies are am I good watch the occasional movie now. Do I need to leave the contrast setting down low?


----------



## Activefun

Why is it on zoom?


----------



## pfan8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18064643
> 
> 
> Why is it on zoom?



To keep the logo off the screen and black bars during commercials.


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pfan8* /forum/post/18064481
> 
> 
> Yeah, it does, but the picture is on zoom, so the logo is off screen. Do I need to wait a full 120 hours to watch Blu-Ray movies are am I good watch the occasional movie now. Do I need to leave the contrast setting down low?



You can watch blu-ray movies the same day you bought the tv. Don't worry so much, you don't need to. Just be careful for the 1st 100 hours on black bars and you should be ok. Keep the contrast at 50 or lower for the 1st 100 hours or so too.


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amplive* /forum/post/18065387
> 
> 
> You can watch blu-ray movies the same day you bought the tv. Don't worry so much, you don't need to. Just be careful for the 1st 100 hours on black bars and you should be ok. Keep the contrast at 50 or lower for the 1st 100 hours or so too.



Forgive me, Im new to this. Arent there black bars when watching blue rays? or can you turn them off. If you stretch the screen to make a widescreen movie full screen, does it stretch and distort the image?


----------



## pitnyelder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18067049
> 
> 
> Forgive me, Im new to this. Arent there black bars when watching blue rays? or can you turn them off. If you stretch the screen to make a widescreen movie full screen, does it stretch and distort the image?



I'm pretty sure the appearance of "black bars"/letterboxing on a Blu-Ray is dependent on what aspect ratio the film was shot in. If the film was shot in 2.35:1, you'll get letterbox. If it's in 1.85:1, you'll get a full screen. The back of the Blu-Ray case will indicate which ratio was used.


Some people will use their set's "zoom" picture mode to eliminate the black bars during the first 100-200 hours of the panel's life. It doesn't distort the picture, it just cuts off the edges. After this initial period there's not much worry unless you would literally only be watching letterbox content exclusively for the rest of the set's lifespan.


----------



## Activefun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pitnyelder* /forum/post/18067237
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the appearance of "black bars"/letterboxing on a Blu-Ray is dependent on what aspect ratio the film was shot in. If the film was shot in 2.35:1, you'll get letterbox. If it's in 1.85:1, you'll get a full screen. The back of the Blu-Ray case will indicate which ratio was used.
> 
> 
> Some people will use their set's "zoom" picture mode to eliminate the black bars during the first 100-200 hours of the panel's life. It doesn't distort the picture, it just cuts off the edges. After this initial period there's not much worry unless you would literally only be watching letterbox content exclusively for the rest of the set's lifespan.



So then these "newer" plasma tvs are different than my 61 Samsung DLP? When I "stretch" to make it full screen, it distorts the picture. Im thinking of getting a Panny v10 or a Samsung 860.

Thanks


----------



## john_a_g




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Activefun* /forum/post/18067290
> 
> 
> So then these "newer" plasma tvs are different than my 61 Samsung DLP? When I "stretch" to make it full screen, it distorts the picture. Im thinking of getting a Panny v10 or a Samsung 860.
> 
> Thanks



Most tvs have several methods for increasing picture - stretch does distort. But it should have a zoom feature also which simply crops down on the picture and doesn't stretch the image. I think my current TV has about 4 different options for doing this type of thing - look in your options and you should see a zoom that will crop the image down rather than stretch.


----------



## lookout321

Hey guys, what are your thoughts?



I also posted this in the Panny thread, so bear with me.




I just got my new TC-P54G10 from sears 1 wk ago, opened the box today and turned it on;


As soon as it powers up I see in the upper left hand corner image retention or burn-in of the service menu!! I don't see it when I watch a dvd, but I see it again when looking at a screen without programming content..


I just checked the hours used and it was 1:50 (I had just watched a DVD), so the TV does appear to be new. Could they have had the service menu on for a long time at the factory?


Also, I just got the TV and it was manufactured April 2009. Does this seem strange? I thought it would be a newer manufacture date.


Any thoughts would be appreciated..

I'm hoping to keep it cause when I watched a DVD last night it was an awesome picture, but i'm just surprised to see what I saw.



Matt


----------



## DRC72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lookout321* /forum/post/18086629
> 
> 
> Hey guys, what are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I also posted this in the Panny thread, so bear with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got my new TC-P54G10 from sears 1 wk ago, opened the box today and turned it on;
> 
> 
> As soon as it powers up I see in the upper left hand corner image retention or burn-in of the service menu!! I don't see it when I watch a dvd, but I see it again when looking at a screen without programming content..
> 
> 
> I just checked the hours used and it was 1:50 (I had just watched a DVD), so the TV does appear to be new. Could they have had the service menu on for a long time at the factory?
> 
> 
> Also, I just got the TV and it was manufactured April 2009. Does this seem strange? I thought it would be a newer manufacture date.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated..
> 
> I'm hoping to keep it cause when I watched a DVD last night it was an awesome picture, but i'm just surprised to see what I saw.
> 
> 
> 
> Matt



They probably test the sets before they leave the factory... Just watch some HD programming and the IR should disappear shortly.


----------



## lookout321

Do you think the manufacture date is odd? I'm surprised it wasn't more recent.

Do you think I should run the burn in images?


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lookout321* /forum/post/18086706
> 
> 
> Do you think the manufacture date is odd? I'm surprised it wasn't more recent.
> 
> Do you think I should run the burn in images?



It's just been sitting at Sears for a while then.Looks like Sears hasn't been selling that one much.But if you want to run those slides, go for it. I did it for about 20 hours then gave up. It's best to I guess if you are planning on getting it calibrated. I don't believe it will do anything to help with IR.


----------



## j-justice

Hey Gang,


I've had my Samsung PN50B550 for 1 week now and I'm pretty impressed. Watched the Hurt Locker the other night and really stunned our friends.


Anyway, I am a little concerned about image retention. I had the menu screen of my blu-ray player on for about 1.5 to 2 minutes and already got image retention. I ran the scroller and that took care of it but my concern is that this will be a nagging problem.


I have been running the break in dvd every night and plan on running it for about 100 hours before calibrating the set.


Will breaking it in decrease the chance/amount of image retention?


Will IR become less of a problem the more I use the TV?


I am well aware to not leave static image on for a long period of time but 2 minutes seems ridiculous. I don't want to have to return this set. I've been happy with all my Samsung LCDs.


Thanks for your help!


----------



## jjthenovice

You didn't need to run the scroller. That type of IR is not permanate. Just simply watch some TV and it will go away (or should). The scroller is only needed for very extreme cases IMO. YMMV.


----------



## parker4983

I am having a samsung pn58b550 delivered to me on friday, Can I use a thumb drive to rum the break in slides and if so does anyone know what settings I should use?


----------



## jpg4878

I've been dying to get a 50" plasma since I like the look much better than LCD's. However, IR has me a little freaked out. I can be careful about it, but my family won't be.


My wife likes to watch (or more explicitly leave on in the background) cable news for about 6 hours a day. My daughter watches her kids shows for about another two some are 4x3 content on the PBS HD station with black bars in the broadcast. I want this for sports maily and movies.


I don't mind going through the break in procedure for a little bit, but I want to use my TV like every other TV that I've owned (and never had a problem.) that means that I don't want to baby it.


So should I skip plasma?


----------



## billycole




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *parker4983* /forum/post/18101612
> 
> 
> I am having a samsung pn58b550 delivered to me on friday, Can I use a thumb drive to rum the break in slides and if so does anyone know what settings I should use?




yes


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpg4878* /forum/post/18101819
> 
> 
> I've been dying to get a 50" plasma since I like the look much better than LCD's. However, IR has me a little freaked out. I can be careful about it, but my family won't be.
> 
> 
> My wife likes to watch (or more explicitly leave on in the background) cable news for about 6 hours a day. My daughter watches her kids shows for about another two some are 4x3 content on the PBS HD station with black bars in the broadcast. I want this for sports maily and movies.
> 
> 
> I don't mind going through the break in procedure for a little bit, but I want to use my TV like every other TV that I've owned (and never had a problem.) that means that I don't want to baby it.
> 
> 
> So should I skip plasma?



Six hours a day on cnn? Ehh, I would kill her










But in all serious, just make sure you mix it up, try not to have it always on cnn.


----------



## TV4Sooner

Why is IR a problem if you have Pixel Shifting on? Is it because the pixels shift, yet some of the pixels are still experiencing the same color discharge (like some pixel shift would still be within a station's white logo)?


----------



## GrizzledGeezer

I apologize if this has already been covered, but I don't have time to browse 2100 posts.


When I purchased a Pioneer Kuro, I did not fully follow the break-in instructions -- I watched more CinemaScope and Panavision films than I "should" have. As a result, there is, on a "blank" screen, a darker stripe across the raster, of the size of a 2.35:1 image. It is only rarely visible (the room has to be dark and the film showing a near-black background) but I'm extremely annoyed, simply knowing it's there.


It's not image retention. Long periods of full-screen viewing reduce it, without eliminating it.


Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, how did you reduce or eliminate it?


Pioneer referred me to pixelprotector. The name of company is hardly prepossessing, and the Website makes me think of an Anthony Sullivan or Billy Mays ad. Has anyone here used this product to successfully reduce burn-in?


Thank you.


----------



## sean_guy

Hey I bought an LG 50PS11 3 weeks ago and I'm having some image retention issues. I had the tv settings set to what it shouldn't have been, having not known the proper settings at the time. I had the tv on 100% contrast and the ISM method on Normal, not Orbiter. I was playing a video game for quite some time over a few days and I have image retention from the static logos that were in the game. I tried to white wash and colour wash the screen for a few hours but the image is still there. I want to know if these images will go away and if I can do anything to get rid of it. I even put it on a snow channel and it didnt help at all, it actually looked a bit worse.


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sean_guy* /forum/post/18156910
> 
> 
> Hey I bought an LG 50PS11 3 weeks ago and I'm having some image retention issues. I had the tv settings set to what it shouldn't have been, having not known the proper settings at the time. I had the tv on 100% contrast and the ISM method on Normal, not Orbiter. I was playing a video game for quite some time over a few days and I have image retention from the static logos that were in the game. I tried to white wash and colour wash the screen for a few hours but the image is still there. I want to know if these images will go away and if I can do anything to get rid of it. I even put it on a snow channel and it didnt help at all, it actually looked a bit worse.



Hard to say. I think your best bet would be to stay off that game for a while til it gets better. but at 100 contrast, you are just asking for a problem. Maybe keep at the white wash or just watch regular content and hope for the best. If you cant see it unless going to a blank black screen in pitch dark then I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## bbrossard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV4Sooner* /forum/post/18113755
> 
> 
> Why is IR a problem if you have Pixel Shifting on? Is it because the pixels shift, yet some of the pixels are still experiencing the same color discharge (like some pixel shift would still be within a station's white logo)?



That's exactly right. If you have pixel shift on it's max (lets say 4 pixels), the stations logo is wider than that 4 pixels. The pixels on the outside of the logo will have less problem with IR due to the shifting, however, the pixels on the inside of the logo, even with the shifting, are still always the same color.


This will produce IR with a "fuzzy" version of the offending logo.


Stupid logos...


----------



## amplive

Speaking of logos, how is everyone liking that big olympics nbc logo. Why don't they just use the transparent logo already? Pisses me off.


----------



## buffalojoed

OK folks. My Sammy 650 series plasma is about 8 weeks old. I didn't do any break in didn't know anything about it and honestly don't watch much maybe 1-2 hours per day and only since it's so awesome looking! Only have an antenna and watch movies or concert video. Where can I find info on break in for dummies? I'd like to run a break in DVD to start, but have no idea what it is, I read some here and followed some links but it's not clear to me when I get there what to do. Can someone direct me to a very basic thread to tell me where to get / buy a break in dvd? I didn't know black bars were a bad thing so I just recently sized up to eliminate them from view on broadcast TV. I've been watching bluray and other movie content, some have bars and I have seen some IR of the vertical bars already. Help. thanks!


----------



## bbrossard

.....


----------



## maxstarr

Could someone be so kind to send me the break in images? my email is [email protected] 


Thanks,


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DJ Lushious* /forum/post/16946530
> 
> 
> I recommend the flash drive, as you're not introducing a variable with moving parts (the DVD player). With the flash drive I only had to worry about whether or not the TV messed up during these 150 hours. Whereas with the DVD, I would have had to worry about the TV and the DVD player messing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the flash drive files, they are located here . Just download the ZIP file and unzip the images to your flash drive. You're going to want to use 30 second intervals in HMG and just have it run a slideshow on them all.
> 
> 
> Really, though, the DVD or the flash drive results in the same ending. If the DVD is working fine for you, then no reason to stop. I just went for the flash drive method for the above.



I just downloaded the files to flash drive...I have the zip folder and all the files unzipped. When i put this in the tv, will it automatically start playing, or do i need to do something else? I've got a Samsung PN58B550 inbound.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maxstarr* /forum/post/18159931
> 
> 
> Could someone be so kind to send me the break in images? my email is [email protected]
> 
> 
> Thanks,



You should have them now.


----------



## maxstarr

Thanks alot for the images!!!


----------



## maxstarr

When I try and download the file it causes internet explorer to go crazy. Does anyone else have another source of break-in images I could try? Thanks


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maxstarr* /forum/post/18161882
> 
> 
> When I try and download the file it causes internet explorer to go crazy. Does anyone else have another source of break-in images I could try? Thanks



Did you not get my email? You shouldn't have to download anything..just save the images to a flash drive from your email.


----------



## maxstarr

when i would click on the image file my IE8 would go crazy and begin to try and open dozens of windows? Dont know what the cause could be, but i know its not good. lol


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maxstarr* /forum/post/18162925
> 
> 
> when i would click on the image file my IE8 would go crazy and begin to try and open dozens of windows? Dont know what the cause could be, but i know its not good. lol



They're just jpgs. They should open in picture and fax viewer most likely if you have them saved to your desktop.


----------



## GrizzledGeezer

Let me ask again... Has anyone successfully used this product to reduce burn-in (not image retention) effects?


It's not horribly expensive ($40), and the company claims a 70% success rate (which is more prepossessing than a 95% claim), but I don't want to waste my money.


Thank you.


----------



## tietherope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amplive* /forum/post/18158804
> 
> 
> Speaking of logos, how is everyone liking that big olympics nbc logo. Why don't they just use the transparent logo already? Pisses me off.



Same up here in Canada, CTV always had their logo transparent but for some reason during the Olympics they have gone with full color.


----------



## griffwood21

I'm a first time plasma buyer and am looking at the samsung b850/860. However, i watch alot of blu rays and play a fair amount of video games with static images(huds, game scores). On many blu rays the aspect ratio is 2.35:1, thus having black bars on top and bottom of the movie. Even after the initial "break in period", am i going to have potential IR or burn in problems from that. Also im not a big fan of having to break my tv in as i'm really impatient and dont want to have to wait to show of the tvs power to my friends. So basically im just wondering if plasma tvs are right for me. Ive always wanted on but never thought IR or burn in was that big of deal but after reading about it, it got me thinking twice.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griffwood21* /forum/post/18177573
> 
> 
> I'm a first time plasma buyer and am looking at the samsung b850/860. However, i watch alot of blu rays and play a fair amount of video games with static images(huds, game scores). On many blu rays the aspect ratio is 2.35:1, thus having black bars on top and bottom of the movie. Even after the initial "break in period", am i going to have potential IR or burn in problems from that. Also im not a big fan of having to break my tv in as i'm really impatient and dont want to have to wait to show of the tvs power to my friends. So basically im just wondering if plasma tvs are right for me. Ive always wanted on but never thought IR or burn in was that big of deal but after reading about it, it got me thinking twice.



Please read the following and stop worrying about breakin to prevent IR:
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...lasma_burn_in/


----------



## ToiletSiphon

Do you guys know if running the "wiping" program too much can damage the tv?


Thanks!


----------



## amplive

I highly doubt it. That feature is only for hardcore image retention though. You can't have that bad IR to be using it that much, can you?


----------



## Draedalus

Quick question: I've just purchased my first plasma, a beautiful 58" Samsung. I've been running the break-in DVD while sleeping and working, and playing full-screen content between. However, I have watched one Blu-ray in 2.35:1 with black bars (there is a gray bar option for 4:3 content but I can't find a similar option for horizontal bars). There was some image retention afterward, but it cleared up quickly. Is it alright to watch a movie with black bars now and then during the break-in period? Samsung's guideline says it's alright for two hours or less at a time, and I'm unlikely to go beyond that, but I'd like an opinion from an experienced plasma owner.


----------



## spivonious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Draedalus* /forum/post/18184497
> 
> 
> Quick question: I've just purchased my first plasma, a beautiful 58" Samsung. I've been running the break-in DVD while sleeping and working, and playing full-screen content between. However, I have watched one Blu-ray in 2.35:1 with black bars (there is a gray bar option for 4:3 content but I can't find a similar option for horizontal bars). There was some image retention afterward, but it cleared up quickly. Is it alright to watch a movie with black bars now and then during the break-in period? Samsung's guideline says it's alright for two hours or less at a time, and I'm unlikely to go beyond that, but I'd like an opinion from an experienced plasma owner.



The problem there is that the black bars are on the disc itself; the TV has no way of knowing they're there. With that said, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you follow Samsung's guidelines.


----------



## Draedalus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spivonious* /forum/post/18184528
> 
> 
> The problem there is that the black bars are on the disc itself; the TV has no way of knowing they're there. With that said, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you follow Samsung's guidelines.



Oh, d'uh, I hadn't thought of that.


I've got pixel shift enabled and, like I said, I've been running the break-in images for long periods and am already noticing less and less retention. My understanding is that burn-in is pretty rare these days unless you're abusing your panel, and I treat my electronics like holy relics, so I'm not too worried about it, but I wanted another take, and this sentence is getting far too long.


Thanks for the quick response!


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Draedalus* /forum/post/18184497
> 
> 
> Quick question: I've just purchased my first plasma, a beautiful 58" Samsung. I've been running the break-in DVD while sleeping and working, and playing full-screen content between. However, I have watched one Blu-ray in 2.35:1 with black bars (there is a gray bar option for 4:3 content but I can't find a similar option for horizontal bars). There was some image retention afterward, but it cleared up quickly. Is it alright to watch a movie with black bars now and then during the break-in period? Samsung's guideline says it's alright for two hours or less at a time, and I'm unlikely to go beyond that, but I'd like an opinion from an experienced plasma owner.



Why are you breaking it in? Does Samsung recommend break-in?


----------



## Draedalus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18185421
> 
> 
> Why are you breaking it in? Does Samsung recommend break-in?



No, but the consensus among plasma owners seems to be that it's a good idea to do so (although the amount of hours is up for debate -- I've seen everything from 100 to 1000 hours), even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend it. My understanding is that technological advances in plasma have more or less made burn-in a thing of the past, but this TV was a pretty hefty investment and I want to be on the safe side.


Still, I haven't been running the break-in images for close to 100 hours and I've already seen much less retention after long gaming sessions, so I think I'm going to up the brightness and contrast a bit and see how it fares.


----------



## Buckeye911

^ It is by no means a consensus. I don't think there's anything wrong with running a break-in DVD but it's totally unnecessary, in my opinion and that of many others. People need to stop freaking out about a little temporary image retention, it fades quickly and is not a big deal. It is rarely visible during normal viewing. Just enjoy your plasma, watch what you want. I've been doing that for over three years on my two Panny plasmas with no ill effects.


----------



## Draedalus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/18186467
> 
> 
> ^ It is by no means a consensus. I don't think there's anything wrong with running a break-in DVD but it's totally unnecessary, in my opinion and that of many others. People need to stop freaking out about a little temporary image retention, it fades quickly and is not a big deal. It is rarely visible during normal viewing. Just enjoy your plasma, watch what you want. I've been doing that for over three years on my two Panny plasmas with no ill effects.



Well, it's not really the retention I was concerned about so much as the phosphors aging unevenly. I would think that over time that would result in uneven brightness on the screen.


Now I've noticed that on the right side of the screen are two vertical streaks that are slightly darker than the rest of the screen. It's only visible when the entire screen is black, but it's very distracting. Is this sort of thing normal?


----------



## Big Brad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Draedalus* /forum/post/18186996
> 
> 
> Well, it's not really the retention I was concerned about so much as the phosphors aging unevenly.



You hit the nail on the head. I feel the same way. I'm not breaking my plasma in to prevent image retention/burn-in, I'm breaking it in to age the phosphors evenly in a shorter amount of time.


People can do whatever they choose, it's their TV. To say that it is completely unnecessary, though, is not accurate. Since there is a point to break-in (even aging of phosphors over a small amount of time), it should not be labeled unnecessary.


If you buy from a place that has a short return policy, I think it's a good idea to do a break-in. Not only will you allow the phosphors to settle in quicker, you have the potential to recognize any defects with the set as break-in is somewhat of a stress test (to me) as well.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buckeye911* /forum/post/18186467
> 
> 
> ^ it is by no means a consensus. I don't think there's anything wrong with running a break-in dvd but it's totally unnecessary, in my opinion and that of many others. People need to stop freaking out about a little temporary image retention, it fades quickly and is not a big deal. It is rarely visible during normal viewing. Just enjoy your plasma, watch what you want. I've been doing that for over three years on my two panny plasmas with no ill effects.



+1


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Brad* /forum/post/18187539
> 
> 
> You hit the nail on the head. I feel the same way. I'm not breaking my plasma in to prevent image retention/burn-in, I'm breaking it in to age the phosphors evenly in a shorter amount of time.
> 
> 
> People can do whatever they choose, it's their TV. *To say that it is completely unnecessary, though, is not accurate. Since there is a point to break-in (even aging of phosphors over a small amount of time), it should not be labeled unnecessary.*
> 
> 
> If you buy from a place that has a short return policy, I think it's a good idea to do a break-in. Not only will you allow the phosphors to settle in quicker, you have the potential to recognize any defects with the set as break-in is somewhat of a stress test (to me) as well.



Do you have evidence to support these statements?


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Draedalus* /forum/post/18186996
> 
> 
> Well, it's not really the retention I was concerned about so much as the phosphors aging unevenly. *I would think that over time that would result in uneven brightness on the screen.*



Have you ever seen a screen that has been purported to have uneven wearing of phosphors?


----------



## Draedalus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18188581
> 
> 
> Have you ever seen a screen that has been purported to have uneven wearing of phosphors?



No, but like I said, I have very little experience with plasmas. I have, however, seen images online depicting what one would look like should it occur. Granted, it would probably take a very long time to get to that point, but I'd just as soon avoid it altogether if possible. Sorry if I sound like a newbie, but I am one.


----------



## Big Brad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18188462
> 
> 
> Do you have evidence to support these statements?



No, but do you have evidence to state otherwise? The fact is that plasma uses phosphors that age rapidly within the first 500 hours. With break-in slides, which typically consist of red, green, blue and variations of white/black, you are guaranteeing that those phosphors are aged evenly over the first 100-200 hours.


If you watch regular content, the phosphors will age but, most likely, at a variable rate. It will eventually catch up to other phosphors and even out, but the time it takes to do so may be longer.


I would suggest a break-in if you want to get your set calibrated, either by an ISF professional or a DIY job using a colorimeter. Your picture does change within the first few hundred hours. Break-in assures that the service menu calibration that's done will last you a while.


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Brad* /forum/post/18191462
> 
> 
> No, but do you have evidence to state otherwise? .



Yes, actually the millions of people who purchase PDP's and haven't run break-in slides who haven't complained about uneven phosphor wear.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Brad* /forum/post/18191462
> 
> 
> With break-in slides, which typically consist of red, green, blue and variations of white/black, you are guaranteeing that those phosphors are aged evenly over the first 100-200 hours.



No different than watching the display normally with full screen content...law of averages...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Brad* /forum/post/18191462
> 
> 
> I would suggest a break-in if you want to get your set calibrated, either by an ISF professional or a DIY job using a colorimeter. Your picture does change within the first few hundred hours.



I would qualify by saying if you want it calibrated ASAP...otherwise watching varied content will get you there just the same...


----------



## michaelvdg

I really want to believe burn-in is a thing of the past and that what I have is a severe case of image retention.


This is what happened with my p42g15e. After having used it for around 60 hours (according to the service menu) with brightness/contrast just below 50% I put my computer desktop on it at 1080p.


Then I made the stupid mistake leaving my desktop on for about 1 hour, 1.5 hours max WITH QUICKLAUNCH ICONS. The quicklaunch icons left an after image. I was scared out of my wits and turned the contrast/brightness down to about 40%. I decided not to use the computer anymore and just let it show a variety of regular SD and HD content.


Around 100 hours usage I could still see the after images of the icons, especially on a bright white and pitch black screen. I could also see it when viewing regular content from about 4 ft (~122cm) away (which is close, I know).


Then I decided to use the anti after-image retention functions from the service menu (european g15 models don't have them in the regular menu). I used the scrolling bar for an hour and subsequently I used the white wash function for half an hour, but to no avail. The next day I tried the white wash again for half an hour, but the after images would not diminish.


It's now been 90 hours of usage since the image retention started to appear, and it still hasn't diminished. I hope it won't be, but it does seem to be permanent. After all, from what I've read, especially with the newer models it should be gone in seconds, minutes, hours, perhaps days, yet it hasn't disappeared 90 hours of usage later.


I've now made my desktop all black, hid the taskbar etc and configured a good screensaver which engages after 1 minute, so I won't have that problem anymore. I'll be just watching regular content for now and I still hope this is a severe case of image retention, but I'm starting to doubt it.


Has anyone experienced image retention for such a long time or is this a genuine burn-in (however rare it is one seems to occur)?


----------



## BeetleB

Hi,


Will get my new 46" Panasonic S1 today.


Just wanted to know:


1. For breaking in, is everyone using the slides posted here (which were for the Pioneer)?


2. What settings should my TV be at when running those slides (contrast, etc)?


3. What settings should my TV be at when I'm watching regular stuff (both during and after the break-in)?


4. I assume that after the break-in period, it's more or less OK to watch content that will have black bars? I'll be doing that frequently.


(Or rather, for both, what settings should I *not* have? What contrast is too high, etc? Or will this all be explained clearly in the manual?)


(I'm not too stressed out about whether there's any legitimacy to break-in or not - I'm more interested in "bad" display settings (brightness/contrast) in general that could impact performance on the long run).


Thanks.


----------



## Trex450

If i wanted to run the slides, what would you suggest regarding my pdp. I have a PS3, a dvd player, a thumdrive (but no usb on krp, can I use PS3's usb for that purpose?) and a laptop (BTW if i'm going this way with a vga cable, the gpu has max res of 1280 x 800, will I have to zoom or something?) I will leave it on while i'm away. thanks for your inputs


----------



## Dooder

From the Panasonic site.

*4. What is the "break-in" period and what should I do during the break-in period to minimize any risk of image retention?*


When your plasma TV is initially installed, the first 100 hours of use is known as the "break-in period." During this time, to minimize any risk of image retention, you should:


1. Make sure the plasma TV is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely fills the screen. The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the "Just" mode.

2. Turn down the Picture setting (in the Picture menu) to +0.

3. Briefly engage the 4:3 mode and confirm the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright". This can be adjusted in the Set Up menu.

4. Always return the display mode that fills the screen (such as Just, Zoom, Full, or H-FILL).

5. Try not to view channels with stationary backgrounds or logos for extended periods of time.

6. Avoid extended display of static images (video games, computer images, DVD title screens, etc.).


----------



## wnydel

I just got a new S1 and am hooking it up today. I have read a bunch of pros and cons to the break in period, some say myth and some say needed. I am going to do it to be on the safe side.


My questions are this. What amount of hours do most agree on? Eventually I want to be able to adjust the settings and see the best pic possible. I don't think I can make myself wait 500-1,000s for that. 100 hours yes, 200-300 if I really have to.


Any general advice for a new owner? I am so afraid of doing something wrong. My wife wants to watch a blu ray movie tonight and I am afraid that would be a bad idea. Is it ok (as long as I watch it full screen)? What about our Wii? I hate to tell the kids they can't use it on the TV for a long time, but I don't want to hurt the TV. Any short periods of time (like the bowling game) okay or should I stay away from it for how long (100 hrs, 500 longer). Thanks


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wnydel* /forum/post/18220706
> 
> 
> I just got a new S1 and am hooking it up today. I have read a bunch of pros and cons to the break in period, some say myth and some say needed. I am going to do it to be on the safe side.
> 
> 
> My questions are this. What amount of hours do most agree on? Eventually I want to be able to adjust the settings and see the best pic possible. I don't think I can make myself wait 500-1,000s for that. 100 hours yes, 200-300 if I really have to.
> 
> 
> Any general advice for a new owner? I am so afraid of doing something wrong. My wife wants to watch a blu ray movie tonight and I am afraid that would be a bad idea. Is it ok (as long as I watch it full screen)? What about our Wii? I hate to tell the kids they can't use it on the TV for a long time, but I don't want to hurt the TV. Any short periods of time (like the bowling game) okay or should I stay away from it for how long (100 hrs, 500 longer). Thanks



Most agree on 100 to 200 hours for the break-in period. Feel free to watch Blu-rays, you can watch it in the original aspect ratio. Just watch something that fills the screen afterwards. You can do some limited gaming as well, just avoid prolonged displays of static images, especially high-contrast ones. Enjoy your new TV.


----------



## wnydel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/18221232
> 
> 
> Most agree on 100 to 200 hours for the break-in period. Feel free to watch Blu-rays, you can watch it in the original aspect ratio. Just watch something that fills the screen afterwards. You can do some limited gaming as well, just avoid prolonged displays of static images, especially high-contrast ones. Enjoy your new TV.



Thank you. I think the more I read the more nervous I have been getting. I am almost afraid to turn it on, but I know that is silly. Hooking up the home theater now and hopefully will get everything going soon.


----------



## amplive

Yeah just take it easy at first and you should be fine. Enjoy your S1, I have one too and love the picture on it


----------



## GrizzledGeezer

Plasma displays are not a good choice for computer monitors, as michaeldvg's experience shows. It also demonstrates that plasma manufacturers' claims that modern plasma sets are no longer strongly sensitive to burn-in and image retention are simply not true.


I caused minor damage to my Kuro because I did not thoroughly break in the display before serious viewing. You need to break in the display for at least 50 hours (100 to 150 might be even better) before watching less-than-full-screen images.


Don't say you weren't warned.


----------



## wnydel

I had no idea that just about every channel has a logo at the bottom of the screen. Is this a problem during break in? Is it a problem early on (first 100 hours) or longer? Or not a problem? Are some channels worse than others (CBS is a light white and transparent, is that okay?). What about espns sports ticker on the bottom, bad I assume? Thanks again everyone for your help.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wnydel* /forum/post/18233078
> 
> 
> I had no idea that just about every channel has a logo at the bottom of the screen. Is this a problem during break in? Is it a problem early on (first 100 hours) or longer? Or not a problem? Are some channels worse than others (CBS is a light white and transparent, is that okay?). What about espns sports ticker on the bottom, bad I assume? Thanks again everyone for your help.



Yes, those logos will cause IR but not to worry, it will fade quickly. Don't get freaked out. The translucent ones aren't too bad but the high-contrast logos cause IR very quickly, they will fade quickly and will not be visible during normal viewing. The same goes for tickers at the bottom of the screen, you won't see IR however, unless you really look for it. If you have Discovery HD Theater channel they have their logo on screen very little, most of the time there are no logos or graphics on the screen.


----------



## wnydel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/18233095
> 
> 
> Yes, those logos will cause IR but not to worry, it will fade quickly. Don't get freaked out. The translucent ones aren't too bad but the high-contrast logos cause IR very quickly, they will fade quickly and will not be visible during normal viewing. The same goes for tickers at the bottom of the screen, you won't see IR however, unless you really look for it. If you have Discovery HD Theater channel they have their logo on screen very little, most of the time there are no logos or graphics on the screen.



Thanks. I think we have that Discovery channel, I will have to check. I had heard putting on the Cartoon network was great for logging in some break in hours and with my kids, that would work fine. Then I noticed their constant logo and thought there goes that idea. So, if I have this correct, a little IR is not bad and doesn't relate at all to turn burn in?


----------



## amplive

Its highly unlikely you would get burn in from the channel logos (except maybe History ugh) with all the commercials and what not.


----------



## StrombergCarlson

I am "breaking in" my new TC58V10 and I am wondering about this "tech tip" from Panasonic:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmusgrave* /forum/post/13440473
> 
> 
> Panasonic tech from the same service told me 100 hours on normal with Picture set to 0.



What is "Picture set on ZERO" mean? When I go to the picture menu menu on my 58V10 there is no choice with a value of zero (0). I have mine set on NORMAL with the contrast/brightness set below 50%. Is that the same thing?


Also, when I read the info on the slide show for break-in, the disclaimer says it is to break in the phosphors, NOT help prevent IR or BI.


So...why are so many people assuming doing it will be an IR preventative?


----------



## Dooder

This slide show break-in stuff is a bunch of crap. For the 1st 100 hours or so just do as Panasonic suggests. They build them, they should know the best way to break them in. It is a TV, nothing more.


From the Panasonic site:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=24973 


4. What is the "break-in" period and what should I do during the break-in period to minimize any risk of image retention?

When your plasma TV is initially installed, the first 100 hours of use is known as the "break-in period." During this time, to minimize any risk of image retention, you should:


1. Make sure the plasma TV is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely fills the screen. The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the "Just" mode.

2. Turn down the Picture setting (in the Picture menu) to +0.

3. Briefly engage the 4:3 mode and confirm the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright". This can be adjusted in the Set Up menu.

4. Always return the display mode that fills the screen (such as Just, Zoom, Full, or H-FILL).

5. Try not to view channels with stationary backgrounds or logos for extended periods of time.

6. Avoid extended display of static images (video games, computer images, DVD title screens, etc.).


----------



## Dooder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18188581
> 
> 
> Have you ever seen a screen that has been purported to have uneven wearing of phosphors?



+1


Never have, never will. It is all crap.


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StrombergCarlson* /forum/post/18240860
> 
> 
> I am "breaking in" my new TC58V10 and I am wondering about this "tech tip" from Panasonic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is "Picture set on ZERO" mean? When I go to the picture menu menu on my 58V10 there is no choice with a value of zero (0). I have mine set on NORMAL with the contrast/brightness set below 50%. Is that the same thing?
> 
> 
> Also, when I read the info on the slide show for break-in, the disclaimer says it is to break in the phosphors, NOT help prevent IR or BI.
> 
> 
> So...why are so many people assuming doing it will be an IR preventative?



keep contrast under 50 for first 100 hours and u will be ok. the break in slides are not for preventing IR. they are for just getting through your 100 hours quicker, and for those wanting to get their sets calibrated quicker. Its not going to help with IR.


----------



## michaelvdg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelvdg* /forum/post/18195901
> 
> 
> I really want to believe burn-in is a thing of the past and that what I have is a severe case of image retention.
> 
> 
> This is what happened with my p42g15e. After having used it for around 60 hours (according to the service menu) with brightness/contrast just below 50% I put my computer desktop on it at 1080p.
> 
> 
> Then I made the stupid mistake leaving my desktop on for about 1 hour, 1.5 hours max WITH QUICKLAUNCH ICONS. The quicklaunch icons left an after image. I was scared out of my wits and turned the contrast/brightness down to about 40%. I decided not to use the computer anymore and just let it show a variety of regular SD and HD content.
> 
> 
> Around 100 hours usage I could still see the after images of the icons, especially on a bright white and pitch black screen. I could also see it when viewing regular content from about 4 ft (~122cm) away (which is close, I know).
> 
> 
> Then I decided to use the anti after-image retention functions from the service menu (european g15 models don't have them in the regular menu). I used the scrolling bar for an hour and subsequently I used the white wash function for half an hour, but to no avail. The next day I tried the white wash again for half an hour, but the after images would not diminish.
> 
> 
> It's now been 90 hours of usage since the image retention started to appear, and it still hasn't diminished. I hope it won't be, but it does seem to be permanent. After all, from what I've read, especially with the newer models it should be gone in seconds, minutes, hours, perhaps days, yet it hasn't disappeared 90 hours of usage later.
> 
> 
> I've now made my desktop all black, hid the taskbar etc and configured a good screensaver which engages after 1 minute, so I won't have that problem anymore. I'll be just watching regular content for now and I still hope this is a severe case of image retention, but I'm starting to doubt it.
> 
> 
> Has anyone experienced image retention for such a long time or is this a genuine burn-in (however rare it is one seems to occur)?



UPDATE: I'm now at 256 hours of usage, so 196 hours since the desktop icons left an after image and it still hasn't diminished yet. Tried a color wash, snow wash (channel without a signal) and white wash to no effect. When I put up a grey or green screen I can see the icons as clearly as when they first showed up. In regular content I can still only see them when there is a very dark or very bright scene.


While it was unwise to put the desktop on the plasma for those 1.5 hours, I have to say that after all I've read about how resistant Panasonics are when it comes to IR and burn in, I'm a bit disappointed. I'm not putting the desktop on it again, but I wouldn't call 1.5 hours (after 60 hours of usage) of a few static icons abuse. Now if I had done it 4 hours or more, then it makes sense to me it would cause a burn in.


Maybe I should've spent 100 hours breaking it in before putting the desktop up. On the other hand, some say that's also a thing of the past and wouldn't help preventing IR or burn-in, so I don't know if that would've helped.


What do you think, could this still be IR?


----------



## ajvandenb

This nagging retention is very odd considering that you are certain the image was not static for more than an hour or so. Given the efforts made by plasma manufacturers in the past few years and the tests that have been conducted (see http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...a_burn_in/C155 ) perhaps you have a panel that has a flaw making it more susceptable to IR. Leaving a static image for an hour on a newer plasma should not result in permanent IR...


----------



## wnydel

does anyone know if the S1 has the ability to see how many hours of viewing you have logged? If so, how do you get to that info? Thanks


----------



## Nine1one

Hello forums Friends, i have read the recomended buring in procedure and the settings im supposed to use to do this. Question is can i jsut watch a variety of different hd channels and movies with settings basically at 50/60 all the way around for about a month and then apply the settings d recomended? tv in question is tc-p42u1


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nine1one* /forum/post/18251982
> 
> 
> Hello forums Friends, i have read the recomended buring in procedure and the settings im supposed to use to do this. Question is can i jsut watch a variety of different hd channels and movies with settings basically at 50/60 all the way around for about a month and then apply the settings d recomended? tv in question is tc-p42u1



Yes, that's all I did on both of my Panny plasmas.


----------



## Nine1one




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/18253606
> 
> 
> Yes, that's all I did on both of my Panny plasmas.



Ty for the advice, should the overall settings im using now be any higher/lower then 50 or 60? (contrast/color/brightness)


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nine1one* /forum/post/18257575
> 
> 
> Ty for the advice, should the overall settings im using now be any higher/lower then 50 or 60? (contrast/color/brightness)



I kept mine at around 50% for the first hundred hours.


----------



## michaelvdg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajvandenb* /forum/post/18248633
> 
> 
> This nagging retention is very odd considering that you are certain the image was not static for more than an hour or so. Given the efforts made by plasma manufacturers in the past few years and the tests that have been conducted perhaps you have a panel that has a flaw making it more susceptable to IR. Leaving a static image for an hour on a newer plasma should not result in permanent IR...



Thanks for your response. Indeed, you're right, it should not have resulted in permanent IR, but it did anyway, so it seems.


I tried to alternate between black and white slides for 6 hours using an interval of 30 seconds between slides, but that also didn't help to dissipate the after images.


I think I'm just going to contact Panasonic and see if a technician can come by to take a look. Usually this kind of thing isn't covered by warranty, so I doubt I can get a new one. When there's a bright scene it's very obvious and therefore very annoying, so all I can do is hope and wait what they say...


----------



## SixFeetUnderlol

Hi everyone, this is my first post here.


Well, about a month ago, my girlfriend and I purchased a 50" plasma insignia NS-P502Q-10A.


Over the past week, I had not used the set, but she watched 51 episodes on a dvd of a 4:3 show. Tonight, I popped in my Band of Brothers blu-ray and noticed lines on each side of the screen. I had no idea what it was from, and she told me she had watched a show and that she thought it might be from the side bars. I know thats what it's from, but I have to ask, is this screen burn in or image retention?


Is there anyway I can get rid of these lines?


----------



## Calipsys

Hello Boys and Girls, I am new to this forum and looking for info on screen burn, specifically on the Samsung PN50B450 that I recently picked up. I've probably got a few hundred hours on it already and no static images for the first few months. I was playing Battlefield BadCompany 2 the other day for a few hours and now have a minimap and ammo counter stuck on the screen. I've been running the scroller for the last few hours but it doesn't seem to have made a difference yet.

I basically chose this panel over the Panasonic when working at futureshop and playing planetearth on them side by side. I could not make the panasonic look as good as the samsung (just one man's opinion).

I've been happy with the tv and have played hours of games in the past but this game seems to have brighter static images.


Anyways, I'll continue to run the scroller and update when/if it changes.


Thanks.


----------



## NikoDM

Say lads, my mate plans on getting a 5090H as well. He found one, but we doubt it had a break-in... Think the telly's done around 400h-600h... Is it a problem that it didn't have a break in? I suppose it is only little usefull to still do a break in?


----------



## amplive




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NikoDM* /forum/post/18288795
> 
> 
> Say lads, my mate plans on getting a 5090H as well. He found one, but we doubt it had a break-in... Think the telly's done around 400h-600h... Is it a problem that it didn't have a break in? I suppose it is only little usefull to still do a break in?



No point in doing a break in.


----------



## NikoDM

thought so... And the fact that it didn't have a break in?


----------



## Big Brad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NikoDM* /forum/post/18290888
> 
> 
> thought so... And the fact that it didn't have a break in?



As long as it wasn't severely abused during the first 200-300 hours, you should be ok. By abused, I mean watching nothing but 4:3 content with side bars, playing nothing but a video game with high contrast/bright HUD elements, etc.


The whole point of the break-in is to age the phosphors evenly and quickly so calibration can be done sooner. Again, it's not used for burn-in/IR prevention. Since the set already has over 400 hours on it, you should be fine.


----------



## Calipsys

Hello Boys and Girls,

Just a quick update. I've running movies and the scrolling feature on and off for the last few days and you need a good eye to find the image retention left on my screen so I'm reasonably sure it will completely disappear eventually. But I will certainly be more careful in the future and let it be a warning to those of you who are gamers. Even plasma tvs with many hours on them can get retention if you aren't careful. I would still choose this tv but just beware.

You can pick up a Samsung PN50B450 for under $800 CAD and I highly recommend this tv.


----------



## RU_DIO

Hi guys,



Just picked up my Panny 58S1. Do many people still use the Break In DVD linked on this site? IF so, for how many hours. Also, after how many hours would it be considered safe to go into the service menu and tweak the unit with DNice's or someone elses settings?


I'm new to Plasmas and I'm very nervous about breaking it in. But I'm looking foward to tweaking it when it's broken in so I can see the beautiful picture that everyones been talking about.


----------



## michaelvdg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelvdg* /forum/post/18260925
> 
> 
> Thanks for your response. Indeed, you're right, it should not have resulted in permanent IR, but it did anyway, so it seems.
> 
> 
> I tried to alternate between black and white slides for 6 hours using an interval of 30 seconds between slides, but that also didn't help to dissipate the after images.
> 
> 
> I think I'm just going to contact Panasonic and see if a technician can come by to take a look. Usually this kind of thing isn't covered by warranty, so I doubt I can get a new one. When there's a bright scene it's very obvious and therefore very annoying, so all I can do is hope and wait what they say...



Last update: as expected it's not covered by warranty, so there's nothing they're gonna do about it (though the guy I had on the phone could have been somewhat less rude about it).


The ghost images haven't faded, not even a little bit. So I reckon, considering this is a relatively newer model (G15), that it's probably burn-in, because if it is IR it should probably have disappeared after a couple hundred hours of usage.


----------



## RedWindow

It's difficult to run 100-200 hours of slides and that's all; for many that's unrealistic. Like me. But running everything full screen, lowering contrast/brightness/color is generally imo doable for anyone. Cinema/THX mode if got it works too I think. I am about to do this...


I have a *question*; will running slides for long as able to, then switching to recommended settings for watching content (IR/BurnIn preventative settings for first 100 hours) for a few hours then going back to slides whenever you can okay to do or evenly age pixels?


EDIT: Found a good answer to my ignorance a few days ago. Skroh last year: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16016324 

To me made everything crystal clear and felt silly not getting it fully before.


----------



## shaddix

planet earth seems like not the best thing to break in btw, or discovery right. it's all outdoors? So the top of the screen will get much more use than the bottom.(Sky/ground)


----------



## jrb_dakine

Hi everyone,


Just got a new Samsung PN50C450 and i'm brand spanking new to plasma tv's. Samsung says " NO BREAK IN PERIOD " but after finding this forum I'm not too sure. Is 50 contrast, 50 brightness a good setting to break in? Any other settings would be great.


Thanks.


----------



## john_a_g

People, lighten up. Let's repeat - the only reason to run break in slides is to get to a point faster where you can calibrate. If you are not doing this, simply enjoy your favorite TV programs and movies as long as you're watching full-screen for the first 100 hours or so (no letterbox). Don't panic if a commercial comes on and you get the black bars at the sides. The commercial will end and full screen material will resume and all is well with the universe. Just don't pause something for 20 minutes or leave it on a blu-ray menu for half hour etc. That type of thing. But you can watch and enjoy normal television and movies with no issues.


Honest: I'm on my second plasma TV. I have a Panasonic 65v10 and I don't notice IR at all unless i get right up on the TV and stare hard. Follow the above common-sense practices and you shouldn't have any issues whatsoever. And no need to run slides or movies 24-7 to boot.


----------



## matchbug

hey all does any one know if there are any newer better break in slides or a the ones at begining the best


----------



## belfert

I have a KRP-500M. I mostly watch HD TV so i have to deal with those stupid network logos most networks use. Will I end up with burn in or IR from those logos?


How bad is it to watch SD content on the 500M? Speed channel is not available in HD at this time on my cable provider.


----------



## purplerain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *belfert* /forum/post/18393792
> 
> 
> I have a KRP-500M. I mostly watch HD TV so i have to deal with those stupid network logos most networks use. Will I end up with burn in or IR from those logos?
> 
> 
> How bad is it to watch SD content on the 500M? Speed channel is not available in HD at this time on my cable provider.



I finished 151 straight hours Friday night with the break-in DVD. (I was lucky to have the 46G15 to watch at the time. Don't worry about burn-in and IR, your fine. SD is the same with my 46G15, never seen a good picture on any lcd or plasma in SD


----------



## belfert




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *purplerain* /forum/post/18393902
> 
> 
> I finished 151 straight hours Friday night with the break-in DVD. (I was lucky to have the 46G15 to watch at the time. Don't worry about burn-in and IR, your fine. SD is the same with my 46G15, never seen a good picture on any lcd or plasma in SD



I understand that SD won't look all that great on any HDTV. I'm more concerned if the side bars will cause burn in or IR when viewing SD content. Maybe Comcast will add Speed TV HD with the elimination of most analog channels.


I'm 3 1/2 days into the 200 hour break-in with my KRP-500M. I did watch Top gun on Bluray before I started the break-in. I still have my good old 27" TV to watch for now.


----------



## G20Fan

Does IR take a while to get rid of and can it ever be perminant? 15 hours of HD movies and its still there...i mean i played the game for a good ammount of time but its always switching screens..theres no way it should still be there.


----------



## chadmak09

When you get the Elite, (Pro-111FD or Pro-151FD)


1. Plug it in (LOL)


2. Press the Home Menu button on the remote.


3. then go to setup and press enter.


4. The go to Picture and press enter


5. Now set your settings up like this:


Picture:

AV Selection: Sport

Contrast: 50

Brightness: 0

Color: +20

Tint: 0

Sharpness: 0



Pro Adjust


Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Off

Text Optimization: Off


Intelligence: Off



Picture Detail:

DRE Picture: Off

Black Level: Off

ACL: Off

Enhancer Mode: 2

Gamma: 2



Color Detail:

Color Temp: High


CTI: Off


Color Management

R 0

Y 0

G 0

C 0

B 0

M 0


Color Space: 2



Noise Reduction:


3DNR: Off

Field NR: Off

Block NR: Off

Mosquito NR: Off


Screen Size: Full

Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: Mode 1




6. Click Here-----> *Thumbdrive Files* and put the files on your blank thumbdrive. Make sure you unzip the "BreakIn_Images.zip" folder and put the jpgs directly on the USB thumbdrive.


Then plug the thumb drive into the usb port on your Kuro.

And follow these instructions:



*Press home/menu on the remote


*Then go to "home media gallery"


*Then go to USB


*Then go to "USB Disk" (it may say 2.0 or something beside it)


*This should open your thumb drive and show you a list of the break-in jpg's.


*Press the "tools" button on the remote.


*Scroll down to slide show and press enter.


*Set the settings up like this:


Effect: Off

Monochrome: Off

Interval: 10 seconds - 30 seconds (your choice but I recommend 30 seconds)

Random: Off

Play mode: Repeat All

BGM:Off


*Then click "start"

(This should start up the slideshow Break-in process)


*Then press the "AV selection" button on the remote and toggle it until the AV mode is on SPORT


Let the TV run the slideshow (in sports AV mode) and break-in for 100-150 hours.


Feel free to watch TV when you want. Don't be afraid to. Just Try to stay away from channel logos, black bars, and static images whenever possible.

Use common sense and you will be just fine.












Once you have finished the break-in process, I would suggest using D-Nices reference settings for whichever Elite you have (111 or 151) as a starting point for your settings. If you like the settings then use them, but if you want to change the settings around, feel free to. There are many people that feel the settings are a liitle dull. There is nothing wrong with adjusting to your liking.


Here is a link to where you can find those settings.

*D-Nice's settings page* 


Make sure you read the instructions above the settings that D-Nice put there to determine which setting are right for you.

He put them in bold red.


That should do it for you! let me know if you get stuck anywhere.


-Chadmak09


P.S. I would also recommend Getting ControlCal and Activating your ISF-Day, ISF-Night, and ISF-Auto modes. Then contacting a Certified ISF calibrator to calibrator your set.


----------



## BarryB1124




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *belfert* /forum/post/18393792
> 
> 
> I have a KRP-500M. I mostly watch HD TV so i have to deal with those stupid network logos most networks use. Will I end up with burn in or IR from those logos?
> 
> 
> How bad is it to watch SD content on the 500M? Speed channel is not available in HD at this time on my cable provider.



I would also leave the orbiter on. The only cases of IR that I have seen reported with the 111 or 151 were cases where the orbiter was off. I originally had my orbiter off based on advice from my first calibrator. I noticed some IR from a video game and turned it on. Thankfully, most of the IR has gone away, but it took awhile.


I have also seen reported cases where people watched the History Channel with the orbiter off and experienced IR. I have not seen one case where Elite owners have experienced IR with the orbiter on.


So in short, leave the orbiter on, and be smart about your viewing, and statistics suggest you will be fine.


----------



## Megalith

Out of curiosity, has anyone suffered non-deliberate but permanent burn-in damage even after thoroughly breaking in their set?


----------



## ajvandenb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Megalith* /forum/post/18441913
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, has anyone suffered non-deliberate but permanent burn-in damage even after thoroughly breaking in their set?



Ha! I have the same question but for those that "haven't" "broken-in" their set


----------



## RedWindow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Megalith* /forum/post/18441913
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, has anyone suffered non-deliberate but permanent burn-in damage even after thoroughly breaking in their set?



I am unsure if I have a bad IR or just a light burn-in (ppl confuse burn-in and IR, and ghosting images - including me)... My Panasonic g25 I did 100 hours of break-in slides, kept settings at 50 for next 50 hours of TV watching so at 150 hours we bumped contrast up a little, we only use THX mode; raised Contrast to 70 and Brightness 57 for TV watching. My brother watched an NCIS marathon on USA network for 5-6 hours, He turned the TV off right when was done for the night. The next morning I turned on; a Vonage commercial came on bright orange solid background and I noticed the outlines of USA logo. Would never have noticed otherwise. It looks faded, or looks like IR honestly as the pixels are "darker" thus leaves that retention of the logo - but it's been nearly 3 days and it's still there... I thought USA logo was transparent it's not exactly; almost solid white which is the worst. Eek I am sorta worried or worried I didn't handle fixing it properly.


----------



## G20Fan

MW2 grenades and the map on the top left is still there on an all dark screen..that was 50 or more hours ago...seems to be getting duller but wow is it taking a while.


----------



## RedWindow

Here's a nutty idea perhaps; to help with my IR of the USA logo I've had for a week now, and ain't fading... would running a high contrast white screen, similar to break-in slides, but having a blackened logo of USA right where the IR is; help relieve the IR? Or make it worse... The Pixels seem a little darker there thus how you can make out the IR. My logic is, and it very likely is flawed, that it may lessen if the other pixels are blasted and the IR'd USA shape is kept darker/black.


That would make it worse tho probably. The USA logo itself is barely transparent white logo, high contrasted so it's bad for IR. Anyways... probably wouldn't work.


----------



## nnarum23

After 1250 hours I don't even bother checking for IR. I watch ESPN 90% of my viewing time and haven't seen anything switching to MW2 or Madden. Enjoy your set while its in good condition and new. Can't wait to get a bigger size when I get my own house next year!


----------



## therealjustin

I have really bad image retention from my cable providers program guide/DVR list. It displays in 4:3 with gray bars on the sides which would be fine but they put a small black line in between the guide and the bars. Thanks Time Warner. I noticed them while turning off my PS3. I was playing with the brightness to try and adjust the horrible black levels of the set(Panasonic 46U1) and when I turned the brightness up to 100% I seen the two darker black lines. I ran the scrolling bar for a few minutes but that didn't help at all.


I can't even use the guide for 10 minutes a day and I have IR/possible burn-in?


----------



## megahog

I agree with the slide logic in terms of even-aging of the panel and for quickly testing the TV before the no-hassle return policy expires. The only thing I cannot figure out from these threads is the consensus on the Photo settings during the slideshow. I have read about 50% Contrast/Brightness and of torching with 100% Contrast/75% Brightness. I personally think that a mild aging is better than a torch - especially when you consider the power consumption and heat issues. I also plan on watching low contrast/full screen content for 100 hours after the slideshow (overkill?! maybe). What is everyone else doing for the Photo settings?


----------



## Sanguix

Hey guys









Im a noob with all of this.

Here is my situation. I just bought a LG Pk 550 (Firsh HD TV) and I want to do a break in and I have a few questions.


1) How to do a Break In?

2) What is White Wash and When to use it?

3) What is Color Wash and when to use it?

4) Setup like Game and Cinema are they the same if I but all the setting to equal values are are they some hidden Caracteristics I cant change.



Thank you so much for your help


Sanguix

Peace


----------



## wah3

Given the problems some people have with image retention and burn in, why don't manufacturers do the initial 100 hour break-in themselves?


----------



## megahog

I have wondered the same thing! I think manufacturers do an initial (but smaller) break-in, but the 100-hour duration just 'clogs' up the efficiency of the manufacturing process. Plus, some people prefer to have a FRESH plasma - on where the blacks are the blackest and colors are new. So, maybe the manufacturers are allowing the consumers to decide whether to break-in or just jump-in for themselves.


----------



## ehgz1

Thanks for the images! I burned an SVCD with Nero and I am now running the slides on my LG PK550...only 149 hours to go!


----------



## jlj93byu

Although there are model specific break-in instructions here, could I apply the same images to break-in a Panasonic V10? I haven't been able to find any break-in procedures for that model as detailed as the ones here for the Pioneer and other Panasonic models. Perhaps they exist, but I've read over 100 pages of forums today on my blu-ray player and tv in other threads and haven't found any yet. And my eyes are starting to kill me....


----------



## ehgz1

I have been running the break-in slides for about 8 to 10 hours each day but I have one question. For normal use I have been keeping the Contrast below 65 and the Energy Saving feature on Medium. When I run the slides shouldn't I crank up the Contrast to maybe 90 or so and turn off the Energy Saving feature? What is the basic recommendation for Contrast settings for the break-in slides??


----------



## G20Fan

My COD HUD is still there after 6 weeks of regular use







I dont play COD that much on this TV anymore..its not going away...is this perment IR or burn in? Can only see in on a black screen


----------



## joey.r

do you know if this will work for the pk550.. would the menu instructions still work the same.. If different does anyone know how to run the pic gallery for this model.


Thanks


----------



## Honos

I do have 1 question about the break-in DVD... I noticed that the images start with the white slides, then blue, then back to white, then green, then back to white, then red, then back to white before doing blue again. Is all the white slides good for the pixels since there aren't as many blue/green/red slides?


thank you!


----------



## G20Fan

Well i can see some of the map in a normal picture like watching TV but only if i am within a foot of the tv...i still play the game..will it get any worse or will it stay just like it is now? ughhh


----------



## G20Fan

How would you fix a TV that has burn in..replace the panel?


----------



## avgreen

I tried searching the forum and this specific post for a setting for the V10 series but have been unable to find anything definitive. I plan on using the webapalooza slides, so I suspect I cannot use D-nices settings. Does anyone have any settings for these slides on the 58v10 and 65v10. Also, I wanted to ask about zoom, etc. Some ppl say don't worry about it while others say only watch the shops in zoom - no letterbox. Also, how long do you run the slides each day? Some posts have said 8-10 hours. Is that right? Seems like overkill. If this is the recommended time how do you do this - via the timer? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lynch25

Ok, question that I cannot seem to find an answer. I have read many threads about using breakin DVDs for 150+ hours. What if I have not done this and the TV is already at 330 hours? Does it make sense to still do it? thanks for your help.


----------



## shaddix

Well, this is no good. All the credible looking information on the net now says that burn-in is no longer a problem. But it clearly is even after just 1.5hrs of static quick launch icons. And a CoD HUD that won't go away after 6 weeks of normal use.


I just had one of the dev's for MAG PM me the other day on their forums telling me how they have no plans to add a HUD opacity option because "new plasmas don't get burn-in".


So the myth isn't actually a myth after all. Looks like I will be holding onto my Sony Wega for games without any HUD config options.


@Lynch25: No need to break it in after it's already been broken in xD


What I've been doing at the moment when playing MAG on the plasma is using the aspect ratio options to switch between 1:1 pixel mapping, a slight overscan mode, and then a 16:9 zoom mode at the weakest setting. That gives me 3 different places for the HUD elements and with pixel orbiter on so I should probably be good for 2hrs/day


----------



## nnarum23

Do you see these images sticking out during regular viewing? Or only on a no signal screen?


If it's the latter, you're fine and over reacting. If it's the former, then by god it might be a problem.


I've strictly watched MLB and ESPN with their tickers and scoreboard bugs and have not had anything stick around. Just give it some time.


BTW, baseball games are a good 3 hours long and usually consecutive nights. I'm sure I would've caught something by now.


----------



## drkddell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedWindow* /forum/post/18469640
> 
> 
> Here's a nutty idea perhaps; to help with my IR of the USA logo I've had for a week now, and ain't fading... would running a high contrast white screen, similar to break-in slides, but having a blackened logo of USA right where the IR is; help relieve the IR? Or make it worse... The Pixels seem a little darker there thus how you can make out the IR. My logic is, and it very likely is flawed, that it may lessen if the other pixels are blasted and the IR'd USA shape is kept darker/black.
> 
> 
> That would make it worse tho probably. The USA logo itself is barely transparent white logo, high contrasted so it's bad for IR. Anyways... probably wouldn't work.



Actually, it probably would work, but I don't know how you'd get the image to use. It would have to be pixel EXACT, else it would make things worse.


I've banned USA HD from my media room plasma, and have been using the video pattern excessively, but unfortunately have not succeeded in clearing the logo. This on a Signature Series Pioneer Elite -141 KURO, no less.


I fired off a bitter feedback to USA network about this, but doubt anything will come of it.


KDD


----------



## shaddix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drkddell* /forum/post/18648500
> 
> 
> Actually, it probably would work, but I don't know how you'd get the image to use. It would have to be pixel EXACT, else it would make things worse.
> 
> 
> I've banned USA HD from my media room plasma, and have been using the video pattern excessively, but unfortunately have not succeeded in clearing the logo. This on a Signature Series Pioneer Elite -141 KURO, no less.
> 
> 
> I fired off a bitter feedback to USA network about this, but doubt anything will come of it.
> 
> 
> KDD



How long since you banhammered usa?


----------



## agpatel

One quick question, I just got Dark Knight on Blu-Ray (great movie!) and was watching it on my parents LED-LCD TV and the movie is mostly in wide screen (2.XX ratio) and not the 16:9 other than the IMAX bits. Will those top and bottom black bars cause bad IR issues, or will it cause some temp one that will go away pretty fast (hr or so). Plasma I am thinking of getting is the Panny G25 and was wondering if there is a zoom setting to zoom in to get rid of the black bars for the frist 100-200 hrs.


Btw, I cant wait to watch Dark Knight on the plasma once I get it, those knight times scenes should really blow the LCD out the water dealing with black levels.


----------



## Bluerai

Quick question for you guys; but this is more of a double-check.


I'm following the first step (break in) from this website:
http://s.fatwallet . com/static/attachments/18332_calibrationguide.pdf

I'm using the S2, so the breaking in can't be too far off..



I'm also using the SD card with the slides on it..



What I'm noticing is that the 'white' is more of a gray, and the 'black' is more of a dark gray on the slides..

I double checked how they look on my computer, and they don't look like what I'm seeing on the tv.


I'm assuming that the whites/blacks being off like that are because of the contrast/brightness settings being up so high?


I'm planning on ONLY watching the slides for a good 150ish hours, so having the settings pumped up shouldn't be a problem

(IIRC setting everything below 50 is when the user wants to watch regular tv/movies/games during the breakin process)



EDIT: I'm lowering the settings to do my own check.. Could probably delete this post, but it might solve someone's question sooner or later..

I'm about 95% that I'm correct in my thinking here..

Let me know if I'm way off base though


EDIT2: Changed the settings to Cinema, everything was a bit better..

Not as dark as I figured it might be though. Not quite as "deep blacks" as I keep hearing/expected

Maybe the 'Cool' setting is behind that.

Ah well, After I'm done breaking her in I'll try to get everything figured out better, calibrate it and what not.


Green/Red/Blue REALLY pop though, they look really good. Hopefully I can figure out the white/black issue.


If anyone knows why it's not as white/black as I figure it should be, let me know


----------



## jig

it seems that eaprogramming.com is down. any other place to get the burn in dvd?


----------



## Rich510

^site is up i just downloaded the slides. 120 hours of slides...damn thats a long time


----------



## Heineken77

Hi All,


Just wondering if you could give me a couple of quick pointers on how to run the break in slides properly.


1) Is it safe for the TV to leave the TV running for 100+ hours in a row?


2) Is it fine that the images in the slide run for 10 seconds then there's a 1 second black screen before switching to the next slide which runs for 10 seconds? (10 seconds seems to be the maximum amount of time slideshow settings can be adjusted on my c590 samsung)


3) Which picture settings do I need to adjust on the TV? I have a Samsung Plasma PN63c590 that I have set on home mode (NOT torch mode) ... I set the contrast to 50 and the brightness to 50, should I set them lower?


4) Finally, should I have the tv set to Dynamic/Standard or Movie mode?


5) I'm running the break in slides off of a USB thumb drive. Now the problem I notice is down the side of the display, it looks as there are 2 rows of vertical pixels that don't light up at all when the slides play. However when I watch regular HD material they light up. Is there an issue with the slides available from eaprogramming's site, or is there something I have to adjust in the slide show options?


Thank you very much!!


P.S. I know people say that it's not necessary to break the TV in, but I'm moving into my new place in a week so I will not be watching the TV until then, so I figure I may as well use this time to break it in just for the sake of doing it.


----------



## NickSP

I asked this in a seperate thread but found no answer and I will try it here. How do I get the TV to override the "No Signal Found" message if I want to remove image retention with the snowball or snowflakes or whatever it is called?

Also, how do I get a full white screen on the TV? Do I always have to create a jpg in photoshop or does the TV have a way to display all white screen?

I have a P54G10. Thanks.


----------



## mikal_hua

i have a lg 42pj550 and was about to use the break im images but when i put the first image onto the screen i noticed that it did not fill the entire screen there were a few pixels on the sides that were not being used. how can i make sure all of the pixels are being burnt in?


----------



## shaddix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikal_hua* /forum/post/18761998
> 
> 
> i have a lg 42pj550 and was about to use the break im images but when i put the first image onto the screen i noticed that it did not fill the entire screen there were a few pixels on the sides that were not being used. how can i make sure all of the pixels are being burnt in?



turn off the pixel orbiter


----------



## mikal_hua

i have never used the pixel orbiter option yet. i left that optionsoff.


----------



## monstosity12

Regarding Phosphor trailing.


I just got a 65" VT25 panasonic plasma. This is my 1st plasma ever and know nothing about plasma in general basically.


Does phosphor trailing decrease dramtically with 100 hour break in? I only have 3 hours on this tv as of right now. The trailing is so bad it gives moving images a double image, and its hurting my eyes. Im thinking of downloading break in slide and playing straight through the 100-150 hour break in, I just cant stand phosphor lag.


I wanted to ask this question because I am wondering if I have a defective unit or not?


----------



## shaddix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *monstosity12* /forum/post/18801682
> 
> 
> Regarding Phosphor trailing.
> 
> 
> I just got a 65" VT25 panasonic plasma. This is my 1st plasma ever and know nothing about plasma in general basically.
> 
> 
> Does phosphor trailing decrease dramtically with 100 hour break in? I only have 3 hours on this tv as of right now. The trailing is so bad it gives moving images a double image, and its hurting my eyes. Im thinking of downloading break in slide and playing straight through the 100-150 hour break in, I just cant stand phosphor lag.
> 
> 
> I wanted to ask this question because I am wondering if I have a defective unit or not?



I am wondering if what you're seeing is actually phosphor trails. I see them on my lg from time to time, usually on the leading edge of a black suit or something like that, but never anything so extreme as to call it a double image. And the vt25 is supposed to be the best plasma ever when it comes to phosphor trails so maybe you should go check out one in a store to see if your set has some other issue.


----------



## monstosity12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaddix* /forum/post/18805447
> 
> 
> I am wondering if what you're seeing is actually phosphor trails. I see them on my lg from time to time, usually on the leading edge of a black suit or something like that, but never anything so extreme as to call it a double image. And the vt25 is supposed to be the best plasma ever when it comes to phosphor trails so maybe you should go check out one in a store to see if your set has some other issue.



Thanks Shaddix -


Well it seems the things are getting better with break in, but they are still there. makes panning seem like they are jittering. I can see hints of blu and red in the pans, so not sure. I have about 5 hours of evengolo's break in slides so far; lets hope the other 95 hours fix it completly.


I also have a service tech coming out this weekend. *Panasonics customer service is top notch*. They "said they could send out a tech in 2 days". But I had to decline and asked them about the weekend due to my job work days. By then I should have the other 95 hours on it, so I guess I will see.


----------



## Phaneuf3

I am getting what looks to be burn in on my 3 week old Sharp Aquos TV. The images are about 4-5 inches across, transparent(can see the outlines only), there are 2 of these(identical) on the lower half of the screen. They are quite faint and can only really be seen when the screen goes to a static black and or greyish. I am hoping this is only temporary image retention. I have my PS3 connected to the TV and have played it for most, 90 mins in one sitting. I use the 'game mode' when playing video games. Any ideas? Thanks.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phaneuf3* /forum/post/18808713
> 
> 
> I am getting what looks to be burn in on my 3 week old Sharp Aquos TV. The images are about 4-5 inches across, transparent(can see the outlines only), there are 2 of these(identical) on the lower half of the screen. They are quite faint and can only really be seen when the screen goes to a static black and or greyish. I am hoping this is only temporary image retention. I have my PS3 connected to the TV and have played it for most, 90 mins in one sitting. I use the 'game mode' when playing video games. Any ideas? Thanks.



I think that is temporary Image Retention. It should go away on its own or you could run some built in program in your TV to get rid of it. You can also download those slides everyone talks about and this should pretty much clear it up. I am not an expert on this subject but this is what I have read as a solution/answer.


----------



## richardnva

I just posted an update on a separate thread about burn in, and don't think it's necessary. The owners manual for Panasonic and the Panasonic rep that I spoke to don't say that any kind of burn in is necessary for newer plasmas. I use the discwasher home theater setup disc to calibrate my settings. I do it upon initial setup and then about every 6 months to account for natural burn in. What do you guys use to calibrate your settings?


----------



## bontrager

Regarding Image Retention (IR) being a thing of the past on new gen plasmas I think this is a myth.


My local BB has a 54" G25 Panasonic 3D TV and the 3D menu screen is now visable on everything you watch on it. I asked how this happened and said that unfortunately, by mistake, they left on the 3D menu from the Panasonic demo disk for 4 hours without making a selection. They said that there is an option on the Panny set to get rid of the IR and they ran the program overnight (11 hours) and it did not remove the burned in image.


Any comments would be appreciated.


----------



## zeekle

well that is really worst case on that panny. It is most likely pretty new and running in torch mode which I would guess would make IR/burnin worse. I would guess that they should try running the wiper for a few of those 11 hour sessions and it might clear it up.


----------



## REDEYEDSHOOTER

Hi


I bought a Panny TC-P46C2 and I'm currently breaking it in using Evangelos Angelides' break-in slideshow via SD card. My question is - what would be ideal in terms of picture settings for the quickest possible break-in? Should it be bright? Should I make the slides loop as fast as possible? Etc?


Right now, I have the picture on Cinema with the brightness and contrast set all the way up to 100. Slideshow speed is also set to "Short" (quickest slideshow). This any good?


Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Heineken77

Hey Guys,


Well I've had my television now for about 2 weeks. Been watching all full screen television (zooming in whenever a channel has any logos) and been letting the break in images run consistantly.

I'm sure I have over 200 hours logged on the set easily so far. So my questions are:

*1) Is it now safe to watch stations with logos?*


2) Do stations with white logos (transparent?) hurt at all?

*3) What about sports with the scores shown throught the broadcast, or something like CNN or SportCenter where they have the tickers/frames on their screen.*

4) Are movies ok to watch now with black bars?

*5) If watching 4:3 content are grey side bars OK or should I use fit to screen?*


6)I read somewhere that after the first 200 hours, there's another milestone to be concerned about (1000 or 2000 hours into the set's life) .. what exactly is this referring to?


Cheers!!


----------



## Buckeye911

^^^

1. Yes, you are safe.

2. No, you may see some very temporary image retention but it will not be visible in normal viewing.

3. Same as number 2.

4. Yes, black bars may leave temporary IR but again, it will not be visible in normal viewing. You may see it on a blank or solid screen if you are looking for it.

5. Side bars are fine.

6. Don't know about this one.


Enjoy your TV, there's no need to be paranoid about hurting it.


----------



## XFistsClenchedX

Any static image that is white with a black outline/black background seems to be retained more quickly than any other image on my Samsung. Fortunately, it goes away quickly.


I noticed Crackdown 2 on the XBOX 360 has a HUD transparency slider, for people who might be interested in that game. The original Crackdown was a lot of fun and the demo for the next one is pretty much the same.


----------



## edb3

I dialed that HUD transparency down to something like 10% on the Crackdown 2 demo. Fantastic game and more games should include transparency options like that.


----------



## shaddix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edb3* /forum/post/18851887
> 
> 
> I dialed that HUD transparency down to something like 10% on the Crackdown 2 demo. Fantastic game and more games should include transparency options like that.


OH SNAP I DIDNT REALIZE YOU COULD DO THAT













































TIME TO BOOT UP THE XBOX H AHAHAHA


----------



## Calilife17

Hey sorry if this has been posted before in the thread, i dont have the attention span to go over all 75 pages.


Question is.... I have a samsung C8000 with about 300-350 hours of break in slides (had roommate run for about 2 weeks, 12-16 hours a day while i was away). Watching and playing video games now, I do notice some IR on like the broadcasters logo like FX, or scoreboard for a baseball game. Or playing MLB 10, the scoreboard on that. the IR will go away somewhat fast with the scrolling bars.


What im wondering is, is IR going to always be there on plasmas (new to plasma, came from LCD and DLP, so IR is new to me) and i will just want to run bars or something after long session of viewing something with static images, or do i just need more time on the TV for IR to becoming a thing of a past. Love the TV so this doesnt bother me, just want to be more informed about it, and what i should expect.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Calilife17* /forum/post/18852112
> 
> 
> Hey sorry if this has been posted before in the thread, i dont have the attention span to go over all 75 pages.
> 
> 
> Question is.... I have a samsung C8000 with about 300-350 hours of break in slides (had roommate run for about 2 weeks, 12-16 hours a day while i was away). Watching and playing video games now, I do notice some IR on like the broadcasters logo like FX, or scoreboard for a baseball game. Or playing MLB 10, the scoreboard on that. the IR will go away somewhat fast with the scrolling bars.
> 
> 
> What im wondering is, is IR going to always be there on plasmas (new to plasma, came from LCD and DLP, so IR is new to me) and i will just want to run bars or something after long session of viewing something with static images, or do i just need more time on the TV for IR to becoming a thing of a past. Love the TV so this doesnt bother me, just want to be more informed about it, and what i should expect.



The IR will probably continue to occur but you don't need to run the scroll bars. It will disappear by just displaying normal HD programming for a while. I think I've run the scroll bars on my Panasonic about twice in the almost two years I've had it and that was just to make sure the function still worked.


----------



## Astropin

This thread had me very worried.


Recently purchased the Panny TC-P65S1 and was not really paying close attention. Sure I had the screen filled all the time but I was not really thinking about my son playing Modern Warfare 2 every day! On the game mode no less which really punches up the color and contrast.


Well........no IR....none. Boy was I relieved.


I've seen this question several times in this thread but I've never seen it answered.


How much letterboxed blu ray movies can you watch back to back before it becomes an issue? 3hours?, 4, 6? Or is it more about the percentage of total viewing time?


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Astropin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread had me vary worried.
> 
> 
> Recently purchased the Panny TC-P65S1 and was not really paying close attention. Sure I had the screen filled all the time but I was not really thinking about my son playing Modern Warfare 2 every day! On the game mode no less which really punches up the color and contrast.
> 
> 
> Well........no IR....none. Boy was I relieved.
> 
> 
> I've seen this question several times in this thread but I've never seen it answered.
> 
> 
> How much letterboxed blu ray movies can you watch back to back before it becomes an issue? 3hours?, 4, 6? Or is it more about the percentage of total viewing time?



Well that's great!


----------



## beaucha

I have an issue with what I believe is IR. I have a Panasonic 42PZ700U and l have been noticing some 4:3 IR. It comes up as lighter on the sides where the bars are on a black screen. The thing is, we do not watch anything in 4:3, the only things that wer watch in 4:3 are some of the comericals that are broadcast that way. On dark screens they appear lighter. Any thouhts or ways to rectify this?


Thanks


----------



## JukeBox360

what brand is this set?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Astropin* /forum/post/18855414
> 
> 
> How much letterboxed blu ray movies can you watch back to back before it becomes an issue? 3hours?, 4, 6? Or is it more about the percentage of total viewing time?



I've watched as much as six hours straight without a problem. Immediately afterwords there was definitely IR but within seconds it was not visible for normal viewing. It was still visible on a blank screen for several minutes but I don't consider that a problem. I've never had a problem with either my 50pz800 (1.75 years) or my 42px60 (4.5 years).


----------



## JukeBox360

Hopefully I will be that lucky


----------



## bontrager

I will be getting a new Panasonic tc54 V25 on Wednesday. I was wondering if I reduce the contrast and picture settings to 50% could I use the Windows Vista screen saver called "ribbions" ( ribbions of different sizes and collors constantly streaking across the screen on a black back ground) as my break in material? Maybe leave it on for 2 to 3 hours per night


Thank you!


----------



## JukeBox360

I wouldn't use that as break in as it's not going to be the full screen. I don't think it'd age even. If it were me. (which it will be soon) i will just watch normal tv. Maybe I'll avoid a static image for over 2 hours. I'll game on it every night at least 2 hours a day. I'm going to test my set to it's burning limit!


----------



## MercSoldier

So, I am going to be buying a P50G20 in the next few weeks. It will be my first experience with a plasma. I am still kind of confused with the whole aging process and how its performed. What exactly do I need to do? Is it just flashing those slides from the first post for however many hours?


----------



## FredLenhoff

Have a new LG PK550, watched US/Ghana (no commercials!) and now the ABC logo is visible in the corner. I didn't do any break-in, so during the match the settings were out of the box "vivid." Have since changed to "home" settings and dialed down contrast to 40-ish. Still under 100 hours total, I'd say...


ABC is still there (watched March of the Penguins last night, easy to see against the white ice), so now what? Run the 100 IRE white screen deal? Or pretend I'm always watching ABC?


----------



## FSD

Ok, I just got a 50vt20 at BB. The salesman said to run THX and that is easy enough for break in, is this correct? If not, can someone please post or send me some break-in settings. This is my first Plasma, so I'm new to all of this and not sure what needs to be done. Thank you.


----------



## JukeBox360

Just run THX and you'll be fine. There's no need to do slides


----------



## FSD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/18899968
> 
> 
> Just run THX and you'll be fine. There's no need to do slides



Thank you. Now, after about a month of use the BB guy said that they can come out and calibrate it, do I need this? He said they hook up a computer and something sticks to the screen and they set it and it never has to be adjusted. Is it something I can do on my own?


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FSD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. Now, after about a month of use the BB guy said that they can come out and calibrate it, do I need this? He said they hook up a computer and something sticks to the screen and they set it and it never has to be adjusted. Is it something I can do on my own?



What they do is professional calibration. Basically. They tweak your TV to looks it's best. Is it needed? No. Will there be a difference in your set? Yes. It will run cooler and your picture will be overall better. Better color. Details. ETC. chances are. If you already like how your set looks. Then don't do it. If you wonder how much better it looks. Then give it a try.


----------



## FSD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/18900796
> 
> 
> What they do is professional calibration. Basically. They tweak your TV to looks it's best. Is it needed? No. Will there be a difference in your set? Yes. It will run cooler and your picture will be overall better. Better color. Details. ETC. chances are. If you already like how your set looks. Then don't do it. If you wonder how much better it looks. Then give it a try.



Thanks for the help and information.


----------



## JukeBox360

Anytime.


----------



## BAMABLUHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FSD* /forum/post/18900773
> 
> 
> Thank you. Now, after about a month of use the BB guy said that they can come out and calibrate it, do I need this? He said they hook up a computer and something sticks to the screen and they set it and it never has to be adjusted. Is it something I can do on my own?



I agree with Jukebox. Personally, I wouldn't let BB Geeks do it. Big box retailers probably won't do as well as a specialty store would. I would try to find a local AV store and check for prices.


I have a new 54G25, and I think the picture is just fine as it is in THX with a few minor tweaks. I have contrast and brightness down to under 50 for the first 100 hrs or so. After that, I will raise them to the Home Theater Mag settings.


If you can get a pro calibration for less than $160, then it's worth it. I think it will cost closer to $200-250+, so if you've got the extra coin, go for it. I am happy with mine as it is. You can also buy a calibration Blu Ray or DVD and tweak it yourself for around $30 and some time.


----------



## FSD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BAMABLUHD* /forum/post/18901803
> 
> 
> I agree with Jukebox. Personally, I wouldn't let BB Geeks do it. Big box retailers probably won't do as well as a specialty store would. I would try to find a local AV store and check for prices.
> 
> 
> I have a new 54G25, and I think the picture is just fine as it is in THX with a few minor tweaks. I have contrast and brightness down to under 50 for the first 100 hrs or so. After that, I will raise them to the Home Theater Mag settings.
> 
> 
> If you can get a pro calibration for less than $160, then it's worth it. I think it will cost closer to $200-250+, so if you've got the extra coin, go for it. I am happy with mine as it is. You can also buy a calibration Blu Ray or DVD and tweak it yourself for around $30 and some time.



Thank you.


----------



## guyharrisonphoto

I just received a pioneer 141FD. The dealer said it had never been used or plugged in. I started it up with regular Satellite HD full screen material. That night I played The Godfather Blu-Ray in my completely dark room. I noticed, in very dark scenes, that the side "bar" areas that show when viewing 4:3 content were lighter than the 4:3 central area of the screen. I am new to a plasma and thought this would disappear as I broke it in.


It has not disappeared. As I watch with a more careful eye, they still show. They are faint, but visible when viewing movies at night (completely dark room) in scenes with very dark shadows. I saw them several times during The Godfather at the sides of dark, shadowy scenes. Can't see them at all during daytime viewing, or when the room is brightly lit, or when the scene brightness goes up from very dark. Still, it shows up most just when I want the "ultimate" theater experience. I have not viewed any 4:3 content when breaking in the set.


On reading my owner manual, is this "burn-in"? I ran the video pattern twice so far, and have put about 60 hours on the screen. The issue has not really improved as far as I can see.


Does the screen need to be replaced? Is there any way to rectify this issue?


I am going to contact the dealer today and I wanted some feedback from experienced people before I accuse him of selling me a used (and abused) screen.


Thanks.


----------



## Uziel

Are you basing the 60 hours on what you estimate you put on it, or have you actually checked the clock to see? I'm not sure if that clock can be reset or not, but that might be a good place to start.


----------



## guyharrisonphoto




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Uziel* /forum/post/18913814
> 
> 
> Are you basing the 60 hours on what you estimate you put on it, or have you actually checked the clock to see? I'm not sure if that clock can be reset or not, but that might be a good place to start.



Based on what I have informally logged. You cannot check the hours on these without a special access to the servicing menu. I am sure it is pretty close, although the hours might be slightly more.


----------



## Uziel

Do you it connected to a network via ethernet? If so you can just get the hours by going to http://Monitor_IP_Address/cgi/service_right.cgi (or via KuroReader)


If the hour count is way off from what you are estimating that will tell if it was used or not.


----------



## guyharrisonphoto

I don't have the knowledge to do this, I don't think. Can you walk me through how it is done and then I can try to do it tonight? Sorry to be a bother but I have to learn somewhere and I appreciate your taking the time.


I don't want to have the set calibrated until I know if I am going to return it.


Hours aside, does what I describe seem like burn-in and can I do anything about it?


----------



## Uziel

I am sending you a PM about the hours check. I'm new to plasma myself so I'm not sure about the burn in.


----------



## Falcons023

Got a quick Question for you guys. I just bought 60PK550 last night. I have downloaded the Angelo's video files (Video_TS). I loaded in my PS3 & set them to repeat. Everytime a file(32 files in total) is played there is a "Play" symbol & "Repeat" symbols being displayed for 2 seconds.


Is it fine to have those symbols display during the Burn In period?


----------



## Big Brad

Why not just download the slides to a USB jump drive? It's easier and you don't have to have the PS3 on to do it.


----------



## Falcons023




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Brad* /forum/post/18919907
> 
> 
> Why not just download the slides to a USB jump drive? It's easier and you don't have to have the PS3 on to do it.



That's probably the easiest. Thanks


----------



## Big Brad

No problem. I initially was going to use my PS3 as well, but figured since I had the extra jump drive, I would put it to use. You shouldn't have any problems. Make sure to set the speed to slow and to max out contrast. For my LG PK550, I used these settings in Vivid I believe:


Contrast: 100

Brightness: 60

Sharpness: 50

Color: 50

Tint: 0

White Balance: Mid-point or Normal


I loosely based those settings off of my previous break-in with my Panasonic.


----------



## LanceAV

Can you not just set it to a HD channel that has no logos 24/7?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LanceAV* /forum/post/18922941
> 
> 
> Can you not just set it to a HD channel that has no logos 24/7?



With slides you work the pixels uniformly, so the panel should be evenly aged.


----------



## LanceAV

Thank you


----------



## pork917

I have a brand new Samsung PN58C8000. I have been running the slides for the past few days straight, shutting the tv off for 1-2 hours a day just to give it a break.


I am just wondering should the slides be running on the settings out of the box, or should I set the contrast up or any other settings while running the breakin slides?


I appreciate the help/advice... Thanks!!!


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pork917* /forum/post/18947560
> 
> 
> I have a brand new Samsung PN58C8000. I have been running the slides for the past few days straight, shutting the tv off for 1-2 hours a day just to give it a break.
> 
> 
> I am just wondering should the slides be running on the settings out of the box, or should I set the contrast up or any other settings while running the breakin slides?
> 
> 
> I appreciate the help/advice... Thanks!!!



If you are just breaking-in the TV then it should be fine to run the slides under your normal settings. Running the slides under Vivid or Dynamic, Contrast maxed, helps when you are trying to get rid of image retention.


----------



## trellaine201

Newb here and I have taken a look at some of the comments. Recommendations for my new 58VT25?


What happens if I do nothing and use it as is?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trellaine201* /forum/post/18956923
> 
> 
> Newb here and I have taken a look at some of the comments. Recommendations for my new 58VT25?
> 
> 
> What happens if I do nothing and use it as is?



Get out of "torch" mode as quick as you can, that is drop the Contrast down to a reasonable level. As long as you mostly watch full screen content and don't game you should be alright. If you are going to game, you should try and hold off until you get some hours in. The break-in slides are a big help with this.


----------



## trellaine201




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/18957268
> 
> 
> Get out of "torch" mode as quick as you can, that is drop the Contrast down to a reasonable level. As long as you mostly watch full screen content and don't game you should be alright. If you are going to game, you should try and hold off until you get some hours in. The break-in slides are a big help with this.



Thanks. I am almost always in HD 16x9 mode. I play a bit of gaming. Now a few things/jargon I don't understand: "torch" mode? break-in slides?


Thanks, very much appreciated.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trellaine201* /forum/post/18957291
> 
> 
> Thanks. I am almost always in HD 16x9 mode. I play a bit of gaming. Now a few things/jargon I don't understand: "torch" mode? break-in slides?
> 
> 
> Thanks, very much appreciated.



"Torch" mode is a high Contrast mode, like Vivid, which is meant for the show room to catch a customer's eye. Too high a Contrast coupled with a static image will result in IR. So drop down the Contrast to 60 or below. If you game, keep your sessions brief with a new plasma. Even after a month I got some nasty IR from Demon's Souls on my 54VT25 so be careful. The break-in slides are availabe in a DVD ISO here . The DVD will loop and is a good way to get some hours in. Also can help to wash away IR if you get any.


----------



## trellaine201




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/18957373
> 
> 
> "Torch" mode is a high Contrast mode, like Vivid, which is meant for the show room to catch a customer's eye. Too high a Contrast coupled with a static image will result in IR. So drop down the Contrast to 60 or below. If you game, keep your sessions brief with a new plasma. Even after a month I got some nasty IR from Demon's Souls on my 54VT25 so be careful. The break-in slides are availabe in a DVD ISO here . The DVD will loop and is a good way to get some hours in. Also can help to wash away IR if you get any.



Thanks thanks for your patience. I currently have TV in THX mode, contrast +60, brightness +55, color +50, tint 0, sharpness +75


I will be sure to look at the link u posted.


Thanks again.


----------



## schmidter

I have just ordered a Panasonic G20, european version. And I get it tomorrow!










does I need to do anything to get the best picture that I can get without having to get professional technicion? Also do I need to do anything the first 100-200 hours to not get any image retention or burn in?










cheers!


----------



## zeromothra




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/18900796
> 
> 
> What they do is professional calibration. Basically. They tweak your TV to looks it's best. Is it needed? No. Will there be a difference in your set? Yes. It will run cooler and your picture will be overall better. Better color. Details. ETC. chances are. If you already like how your set looks. Then don't do it. If you wonder how much better it looks. Then give it a try.




Why would it run cooler?

Thanks


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zeromothra* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Why would it run cooler?
> 
> Thanks



Your set would run cooler because it would be operating at and overall normal temp. (6500K) and most sets come WAY higher then it should. Like 10-12K which also gives out more heat. When they set everything to how it should be. Overall, your set will run much cooler. Also improve life on your set


----------



## zeromothra




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/18975509
> 
> 
> Your set would run cooler because it would be operating at and overall normal temp. (6500K) and most sets come WAY higher then it should. Like 10-12K which also gives out more heat. When they set everything to how it should be. Overall, your set will run much cooler. Also improve life on your set



+1...thanks

Why do they typically come so much higher?


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zeromothra* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> +1...thanks
> 
> Why do they typically come so much higher?



It's just how manufactures have there sets. I honestly can't think of a "good reason" they have there sets the way they do. Maybe it's easier to have them higher and have people adjust them to lower? Vs lower and try to push higher? I think the MAIN reason they have there sets so high is just to try and get sales. "torch mode" helps them stand out more on the sales floor.


----------



## jay541

I want a panasonic s2, but am wondering if IR or burn in would be a problem. My mom watches tv with logos pretty much all day. Would the logos on all day eventually lead to burn in (i've heard accumulated IR leads to burn in, is this true?) or does the pixel orbiter and commercials help stop it. I also wouldn't want to use the white screen much


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jay541* /forum/post/18976407
> 
> 
> I want a panasonic s2, but am wondering if IR or burn in would be a problem. My mom watches tv with logos pretty much all day. Would the logos on all day eventually lead to burn in (i've heard accumulated IR leads to burn in, is this true?) or does the pixel orbiter and commercials help stop it. I also wouldn't want to use the white screen much



If it led to burn-in you would here most of us plasma owners complaining about it. You don't hear us complaining about it because it's not an issue. I have two Panasonic plasmas, one has the white screen wash feature. I've had the TV almost two years and have never engaged the feature.


----------



## jsimon9633




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jay541* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want a panasonic s2, but am wondering if IR or burn in would be a problem. My mom watches tv with logos pretty much all day. Would the logos on all day eventually lead to burn in (i've heard accumulated IR leads to burn in, is this true?) or does the pixel orbiter and commercials help stop it. I also wouldn't want to use the white screen much



It's not an issue. I have had two so far nd had no issue and most HD channels have such logos nowadays


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jay541* /forum/post/18976407
> 
> 
> I want a panasonic s2, but am wondering if IR or burn in would be a problem. My mom watches tv with logos pretty much all day. Would the logos on all day eventually lead to burn in (i've heard accumulated IR leads to burn in, is this true?) or does the pixel orbiter and commercials help stop it. I also wouldn't want to use the white screen much



Unless you love the History Channel, worst logo IR offender, you should be fine. IR is real however and not a thing of the past but will mostly occur due to gaming or watching 4:3 content for prolonged periods. Burn-in is considered a non-issue because it takes quite a while for IR to be classified as such.


----------



## Uziel

Logos that are semi transparent like MTV and NBC, et al are fine though right?


----------



## lcaillo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/18980095
> 
> 
> If it led to burn-in you would here most of us plasma owners complaining about it. You don't hear us complaining about it because it's not an issue. I have two Panasonic plasmas, one has the white screen wash feature. I've had the TV almost two years and have never engaged the feature.



I still see PDPs with burned in images from banners and shopping channels. It usually does not happen with the type of people who post here, but with the consumer who has no idea what IR or phosphor aging are. The ones that I see are usually running the sets at full contrast and leaving the set on the same channel for hours at a time day after day. I just saw a panasonic not more than a year and a half old recently with banners burned into the bottom badly.


For those who are mindful of the issue, calibrate their sets properly, and vary their viewing, it is not a problem. For some, who don't know about the matter, it can be if they do not vary what they watch.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Uziel* /forum/post/18981385
> 
> 
> Logos that are semi transparent like MTV and NBC, et al are fine though right?



Should be if you don't use a high Contrast setting, using a picture setting of Vivid or the like is just asking for trouble, and still mix up your viewing content. I've mostly seen complaints about the logos from USA and History Channel. I haven't experienced any IR from logos, only from gaming and really just one game so far.


----------



## hjames19

I decided to use break in slides for the first 100 hours. I was wondering which set of slides are better to use, the AE slides or the Webapalooza v120.1? I have been useing webapalooza v120.1. I through the usb with contrast turned to 100 and everything else is to 50. Is this ok?


----------



## hdtv00

Problem here is 4:3 bars now showing up and line in 16:9 content. Ran sweep still shows. Should I crank up brightness and contrast while I run the sweep to try and get rid of it. Hope to hell it's not burned in. Just now changed to grey background not black. The contrast and brightness have always been turned down.


Think I'll have a problem getting rid of it. Anything to know about this type of burn in from aspect ratio burn in rather than content IR.


----------



## tiddler

I am in the preliminary stages of replacing my CRT Rear Projection TV. I know it is over six years old because we had six years of extended warranty which ran out more than a year ago. Twice we have had to have it serviced because a gun driver chip failed. At this point I beleive we are over due for this failure so I have been shopping for a replacement. Here is my setup:

   


So what does all this have to do with Burn in and image retention?


I have gone to the local Best Buy and Future Shop to look at the new flat panel TVs and found that they all look fantastic. Even the 720p Flat Panel TVs look incredible compared to our old TV. As you can see from the above photos we watch movies and play games using our projector, so the TV really just gets used as a TV. Therefore I see no point in trying to get the latest and greatest in flat panel technology.


I had narrowed down my choices to these Samsung Models: PN50C430 (720p, $750), PN50C540 (1080p $350 more), or PN50C6400 (another $300). I noticed that none of these TVs has Anti-Burn in technology. The PN50B650 has this anti-burn in technology listed in the specs but that is another $500. The PN50C430 is probably more than adequate for our TV viewing needs but if it is likely to suffer from burn in, and I would have to spend an additional $1150 to get a Samsung Plasma with anti burn in technology then I'm back to square one.


So I guess my question is, does the Samsung Anti-Burn in technology make that much difference?


Or to put it another way, if one of the less expensive models looks like it would serve well enough to replace our aging RPTV, is this burn in issue going to make it a poor choice and we will just end up having to replace it in a few years?


Does this burn in issue make plasma a poor choice for a TV that will primarily be used as a TV?


I think I may have answered these questions for myself. During the first few months it is important to be aware of the possibility of burn-in, particularly if you are viewing a lot of 4:3 content. The Samsung Plasma TVs that I am considering have an option for light or dark gray bars. If I primarily watch darker content then the dark gray bars are to be used. If we watch a lot of brighter content then the light gray bars are a better match. So the trade off seems to be several hundred dollars to go with an alternative technology or a little care for the first 100 hrs to avoid watching 4:3 content with the bars set to black.


----------



## ACE'S FULL

OK - Just bought LG 42PJ350 the other night for my bedroom and love it thus far. This is a secondary TV and will get little use. Mainly at night and the occasional movie during the day. From what I read here its best to use burn-in DVD. I DL the ISO file and used DVD shrink/decrypter to burn a copy but doesn't play in my Panasonic DVD player.


- Is there a specific way to unpack the zip file to burn it correctly?

- Do I need to run TV in Zoom mode for 100+ hours to avoid IR?

- Anyone have settings to run on this TV for optimum viewing?


Thanks in Advance


----------



## Endmill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/18899968
> 
> 
> Just run THX and you'll be fine. There's no need to do slides



I think i'm going to go this route, and go easy on it for the first 100 hours or so on my new G20. Now if I can get wifey to play by the rules...


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Endmill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I think i'm going to go this route, and go easy on it for the first 100 hours or so on my new G20. Now if I can get wifey to play by the rules...



lol you've got the power!


----------



## ACE'S FULL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ACE'S FULL* /forum/post/19025677
> 
> 
> OK - Just bought LG 42PJ350 the other night for my bedroom and love it thus far. This is a secondary TV and will get little use. Mainly at night and the occasional movie during the day. From what I read here its best to use burn-in DVD. I DL the ISO file and used DVD shrink/decrypter to burn a copy but doesn't play in my Panasonic DVD player.
> 
> 
> - Is there a specific way to unpack the zip file to burn it correctly?
> 
> - Do I need to run TV in Zoom mode for 100+ hours to avoid IR?
> 
> - Anyone have settings to run on this TV for optimum viewing?
> 
> 
> Thanks in Advance



Can anyone help with the above questions?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ACE'S FULL* /forum/post/19058812
> 
> 
> Can anyone help with the above questions?



The ISO should work and so have to tried burning it with different burning software like even the one built into Windows? But you can also just download slides which you can put on a network share, USB thumb-drive, or SD card:

http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php 



You should try and limit the amount of content you view that is not full screen during the break-in period.


----------



## Physicsboy

Any recommendations for my Samsung PN63C8000? I'm getting it next week.


The above URL, which one should I run...is the 120 one better? I'm thinking about going the same route as HJames (100 contrast, and leave the rest alone??)


And what is THX...any blu-ray disk have this to basically do the same thing? Yes, i've seen THX on some movies...but is there some special break in software??


How long should I run this?


I calibrate after x hours of tv use?


So many questions...want to get the best bang for my buck. I will play a lot of games, and IR/burn-in is a concern I have. I also have kids...and they can watch a channel for hours at a time.


----------



## dan99d99

The first Panny plasma i bought over 3 years ago, i used a burn in disk...(which i cannot find anymore)....


what do i do now for the new G25 - do i still have to download another burn in disc or is there another way (SD cards from what i have read)??


and where do i get the link to download the necessary burn in software?


sorry but i am not a technical person and just trying to keep the new G25 from getting ruined...


Thanks in advance...


----------



## pi2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Physicsboy* /forum/post/19064937
> 
> 
> Any recommendations for my Samsung PN63C8000? I'm getting it next week.
> 
> 
> The above URL, which one should I run...is the 120 one better? I'm thinking about going the same route as HJames (100 contrast, and leave the rest alone??)
> 
> 
> And what is THX...any blu-ray disk have this to basically do the same thing? Yes, i've seen THX on some movies...but is there some special break in software??
> 
> 
> How long should I run this?
> 
> 
> I calibrate after x hours of tv use?
> 
> 
> So many questions...want to get the best bang for my buck. I will play a lot of games, and IR/burn-in is a concern I have. I also have kids...and they can watch a channel for hours at a time.



I just got my PN63C8000 two days ago, been running the 120 slides when not watching TV, prolly will do it for a week. Calibrate after. I set my contrast down to 80.... don't ask me why


----------



## ACE'S FULL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19061220
> 
> 
> The ISO should work and so have to tried burning it with different burning software like even the one built into Windows? But you can also just download slides which you can put on a network share, USB thumb-drive, or SD card:
> 
> http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php
> 
> 
> 
> You should try and limit the amount of content you view that is not full screen during the break-in period.



Awesome that worked great in a flash drive. Thanks. Now its ok to run this for hours on end correct?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ACE'S FULL* /forum/post/19073298
> 
> 
> Awesome that worked great in a flash drive. Thanks. Now its ok to run this for hours on end correct?



Yup, just make sure it is being displayed full screen and is set to loop before leaving it unattended.


----------



## G20Fan

3 games in a row of madden now has put more bad IR on my plasma that looks like i will take a while to go away...after 5 months and contrast only at 52..you would think this wouldnt be an issue but i can see it clear as day from 10 feet away now


----------



## RHDftw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G20Fan* /forum/post/19084978
> 
> 
> 3 games in a row of madden now has put more bad IR on my plasma that looks like i will take a while to go away...after 5 months and contrast only at 52..you would think this wouldnt be an issue but i can see it clear as day from 10 feet away now



see this is the question I had; while plasma screens have supposedly gotten better about burn in, how does it hold up to hardcore gaming? So say I am playing halo on the weekends for 10 hours straight? Isn't that going to cause burn in/IR no matter how good the tech?


----------



## ramy670




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ACE'S FULL* /forum/post/19058812
> 
> 
> Can anyone help with the above questions?



Well I'm not a Pro, but I really think that those settings are really good for that TV:

Aspect Ratio:16/9

Energy Saving:Off

Picture Mode:Cinema

Contrast: 66

Brightness: 50

(Actually Brightness depends on Gamma, so if gamma is set to low, then it should be 44, if gamma is set to medium then it should be 50, and if gamma is set to high, brightness should be set to 57)


Sharpness:20

Colour: 54 (and for bad quality SD channels, it is better raised to 60)

Tint:R4

Colour Temperature:W18


Advanced Controls:

Dynamic Contrast:Off

Dynamic Coour:Off

Noise Reduction:Off

Gamma: medium


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RHDftw* /forum/post/19086318
> 
> 
> see this is the question I had; while plasma screens have supposedly gotten better about burn in, how does it hold up to hardcore gaming? So say I am playing halo on the weekends for 10 hours straight? Isn't that going to cause burn in/IR no matter how good the tech?



Burn-in is hard to quantify now as a substantial amount of time has to pass before IR can be considered permanent. What is typical is getting IR that will either go away quickly and not be bothersome or hang around for a while and be annoying. Hardcore gaming would probably result in the latter scenario.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G20Fan* /forum/post/19084978
> 
> 
> 3 games in a row of madden now has put more bad IR on my plasma that looks like i will take a while to go away...after 5 months and contrast only at 52..you would think this wouldnt be an issue but i can see it clear as day from 10 feet away now



IR will happen, don't understand why many deny it. Key is, when it happens how long does it take for it to go away.


----------



## dan99d99

first, thanks for making the break in disk available to all the avs members.....


i am a newbie on the break in procedures and have more of a computer download issue that i would appreciate help on....


i downloaded the program and burned it on a disk - cdr (using nero) and i am able to view the color images on my computer with a program that pops us called "cyberlink power dvd" and all seems fine on my computer monitor.



howvere i put the cdr into my brand new panny blu ray dvd player (model DMPBD85) which plays dvd's and blu ray disks just fine, but it does not recognize the break in disk....please help.....


the folders on the break in disk (per my computer) are:


ext

mpeg2

segment

svcd


i do not know what to do next to play the break in disk - i can copy one of the folders above if necessary to a new cdr or even a dvd if necessary..


thanks so much for help......


dan
[email protected]


----------



## powertoold




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19087272
> 
> 
> Burn-in is hard to quantify now as a substantial amount of time has to pass before IR can be considered permanent. What is typical is getting IR that will either go away quickly and not be bothersome or hang around for a while and be annoying. Hardcore gaming would probably result in the latter scenario.



Bleh, I'd consider any IR lasting over 1 month to be burn in. 1 month of being annoyed at your TV and worried that the IR will never go away is too long, and the word IR doesn't encompass that annoyance.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan99d99* /forum/post/19088316
> 
> 
> first, thanks for making the break in disk available to all the avs members.....
> 
> 
> i am a newbie on the break in procedures and have more of a computer download issue that i would appreciate help on....
> 
> 
> i downloaded the program and burned it on a disk - cdr (using nero) and i am able to view the color images on my computer with a program that pops us called "cyberlink power dvd" and all seems fine on my computer monitor.
> 
> 
> 
> howvere i put the cdr into my brand new panny blu ray dvd player (model DMPBD85) which plays dvd's and blu ray disks just fine, but it does not recognize the break in disk....please help.....
> 
> 
> the folders on the break in disk (per my computer) are:
> 
> 
> ext
> 
> mpeg2
> 
> segment
> 
> svcd
> 
> 
> i do not know what to do next to play the break in disk - i can copy one of the folders above if necessary to a new cdr or even a dvd if necessary..
> 
> 
> thanks so much for help......
> 
> 
> dan
> [email protected]



If the disc doesn't work for you download the slides and put them on a thumb drive or SD card.

http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php


----------



## dan99d99

i was able to download the images and burn them (i think) to a dvd and also copies them to a flash drive - hopefully when i get home tonite, one of them will work...


appreciate all of your help...


will let you know how it turns out....


dan


----------



## BenOp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G20Fan* /forum/post/19084978
> 
> 
> 3 games in a row of madden now has put more bad IR on my plasma that looks like i will take a while to go away...after 5 months and contrast only at 52..you would think this wouldnt be an issue but i can see it clear as day from 10 feet away now



It will always be an issue. I bought a floor model plasma tv at a considerable discount and that alone is the only reason I bought it. I was worried about the break in and the sales man assured me the television had been run for more than 700 hours on the display mode so all the phosophors were completely broken in and I would have no problems.


Well to make a long story short, I have the black side panel burn in from a weekend my wife was watching the television in 4:3 while I was out of town. Now I can see the lines from watching 2:35:1 on my dvd player. These lines are permanent as I have tried everything to clear them off and I have waited 6 months watching various shows always zoomed and in HD because people said it was just IR and would fade. Still as prevalent as day 1 burn in.


Thank goodness for my extended warranty that I purchased through BB because they are replacing my screen or replacing my television with a comparable model. If I get the new television I will be getting anything but a plasma. They are far from perfect yet!


----------



## BartleyR7

I have a Samsung PN58C8000 set that I've been using some break-in slides with. I recently discovered the v120.1 slides from http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php , and I tried using them directly from a USB drive. They do display, but I notice a single vertical line of yellow pixels completely down the left-hand side of the TV. This isn't present at any other time (including when running the other slides, which are also full-screen resolution) on any input source (satellite, PS3, Wii, Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc.). I'm able to zoom (up to 4x) with this TV, and the odd vertical line is still there.


Has anyone else noticed this, either in general or with these slides specifically? I don't believe it to be a panel issue with the TV since it only appears with these specific slides. I haven't tried the v70.1 slides or running the v120.1 slides on any other media than a USB drive.


----------



## Dram2010

I have a similar situation. With the pure RED slide I noticed that the left most column still shows green and blue. Further staring shows suggest that this column remains "on". I see green and red during BLUE, and blue and red during GREEN.


I have the same model TV and also went USB.


----------



## BartleyR7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dram2010* /forum/post/19098093
> 
> 
> I have a similar situation. With the pure RED slide I noticed that the left most column still shows green and blue. Further staring shows suggest that this column remains "on". I see green and red during BLUE, and blue and red during GREEN.
> 
> 
> I have the same model TV and also went USB.



I looked at it a little closer after I posted yesterday, and this is similar to what it's doing for me as well. I guess it doesn't matter since the colors are changing. I was thinking that it might also be something to do with that last column of pixels being half-way under the black border/frame of the set, but it seems odd that these slides are the only ones causing an issue. Oh well.


----------



## bradjs

Hi all,


I recently got a PN63C8000. I've just learned about the recommended plasma break in period and will begin doing so with the slides and proper settings shortly.


Before knowing this, I made a mistake when the tv was pretty new in that i played around w/ a 3d channel and had the image off center of the screen. i left it and forgot about it for 3 hours. i had slight IR afterwords and was able to clear it by running the scrolling bars function of the tv for about an hour or 2.


my question is if permanent burn-in were to occur, would it be visible right away or is that something that could show up down the road after pixel aging and what not?


could what i did potentially be a permanent burn in problem later or if i don't see a problem now then i should be in the clear in terms of this incident?


thanks for any help,


B


----------



## Dayton

Burn-in would be IR that refuses to go away, so it would be visible right away. Also, try using the slides to wash IR, the scrolling bars while effective can put wear on the set and so should be used sparingly.


----------



## bradjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BartleyR7* /forum/post/19098236
> 
> 
> I looked at it a little closer after I posted yesterday, and this is similar to what it's doing for me as well. I guess it doesn't matter since the colors are changing. I was thinking that it might also be something to do with that last column of pixels being half-way under the black border/frame of the set, but it seems odd that these slides are the only ones causing an issue. Oh well.



any suggested picture settings to break in a PN63C8000 using the slides?


i've found things on the web and in this forum but there's so much info and i'm wondering how current it is.


thanks.


----------



## MrB84

Hey guys,


I just bought a Sammy c7000 plasma. I'm loving it so far, yet I'm still in the process of breaking it in. The question I have, is that I have the contrast in the late 20's when I'm watching my TV. Last night, I checked out one of the 3D channels, and the samsung 3D logo appeared on my TV for less than 5 seconds, and after it was off, it left some IR for a good half hour. Now my main question is, is this because I'm not done breaking it in yet? Or does that sound like a fault. Also, my TV menu for picture options left some nasty IR on my screen last night also, and it was only on there for less then 10 seconds. Could this all be because I have my contrast so low, I see everything that was on there previously? Hoping this isn't a major issue, since I'm doing the break in right now as I type this, and I should be hitting hour 60 soon, so I know I'm more than half way there, or should I shoot for 200 hours? I'm kind of going nuts without playing games for over a week lol.


----------



## mustafanasser

Hello,


A week ago I bought the Panasonic TH-P42A20 in Asia. The problem is that I cannot find the Pixel Orbiter option in the menu. It is a 2010 model, is it possible this model does not contain this feature? for the same price they sell the TC-P42C2 in the US and it does have this feature. I have this TV for a week, I'm following the break-in best practices, however, the screen tends to show image retention from time to time, for example, I watched a football match on a HD channel with a fixed logo and the logo stuck in there for a while.


Thanks.


----------



## Jeff Smith

I've been reading here and elsewhere about the burn in issue. I have a JVC front PJ, but my brother has been looking at a 58" Samsung plasma PN 58C550. Consumer reports gave it a good review and many here seem to like them.


He worries about the burn in, but would do all the right things like breakin, run the recommended files, etc.


Here's my take. I can't picture anyone big into AVScience even getting one if it was that big an issue. I wonder though, about the "fullscreen" watching of programs to minimize black bars. Does this mean most of you make the aspect ratios of DVDs change to fit the 16x9 screen? That sounds sort of blasphemous for high end geeks. Maybe I'm missing something. His other viewing would be cable HD (can't recall if he has Verizon FIOS or Cox). Most shows there already fill the screen, but not all.


For all my reading and searching, I can't get a grip on this.


He would never play games, nor watch CNN or the "stocks" channel, but what would he (ie what do you) do with most DVDs that are 2.35:1 ratio?


So many of the good from Plasmas seems right for him, but he would never tolerate burnin.


Comments...?


----------



## Buckeye911

^^ I've been watching everything in the original aspect ratio for years on my plasmas without any problems. I have two Panasonic plasmas, one is 4 years old and one is nearly 2 years old. I also watch plenty of channels with static station logos and constant crawls across the bottom of the screen. I get temporary image retention which disappears quickly and has absolutely never been visible during normal viewing. I only see it on a blank screen from close up. I hope this helps your brother with his decision.


----------



## waltah

my sammy pn50a510 is getting really bad IR lately. the TV is about 2.5 years old now. does this just start to happen with aging? is there anything i can do to remedy it?


i can go to my tv guide for 15 seconds then get out of it and still see it on the screen for 10 minutes. its really severe. i am using the pixel shift technology set to refresh every minute (most it will do).


----------



## Needanewbewbtube

So most of the IR that I get on my C7000 that does show up in normal viewing goes away quickly, for example I played Mafia II for 2:30hrs and in cut scenes I could faintly see the map. After 10min of playing that game though on loading screens(completely black where the map is, it always shows up) Here's what I don't understand, after the IR shows up in normal viewing, I'll run the scroll bar/break in slides on Dynamic and it'll take care of it, but when I get up close to the screen the map is still there. I've ran at least 6 hours of different content, and haven't played Mafia II since I beat it and the map is still on the screen when I get up close to it. Why is this taking so long to fade?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Needanewbewbtube* /forum/post/19120332
> 
> 
> So most of the IR that I get on my C7000 that does show up in normal viewing goes away quickly, for example I played Mafia II for 2:30hrs and in cut scenes I could faintly see the map. After 10min of playing that game though on loading screens(completely black where the map is, it always shows up) Here's what I don't understand, after the IR shows up in normal viewing, I'll run the scroll bar/break in slides on Dynamic and it'll take care of it, but when I get up close to the screen the map is still there. I've ran at least 6 hours of different content, and haven't played Mafia II since I beat it and the map is still on the screen when I get up close to it. Why is this taking so long to fade?



IR can take weeks to go completely away depending on the situation. Demon's Souls gave me IR that remained for almost two weeks. It happens.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeff Smith* /forum/post/19118058
> 
> 
> I've been reading here and elsewhere about the burn in issue. I have a JVC front PJ, but my brother has been looking at a 58" Samsung plasma PN 58C550. Consumer reports gave it a good review and many here seem to like them.
> 
> 
> He worries about the burn in, but would do all the right things like breakin, run the recommended files, etc.
> 
> 
> Here's my take. I can't picture anyone big into AVScience even getting one if it was that big an issue. I wonder though, about the "fullscreen" watching of programs to minimize black bars. Does this mean most of you make the aspect ratios of DVDs change to fit the 16x9 screen? That sounds sort of blasphemous for high end geeks. Maybe I'm missing something. His other viewing would be cable HD (can't recall if he has Verizon FIOS or Cox). Most shows there already fill the screen, but not all.
> 
> 
> For all my reading and searching, I can't get a grip on this.
> 
> 
> He would never play games, nor watch CNN or the "stocks" channel, but what would he (ie what do you) do with most DVDs that are 2.35:1 ratio?
> 
> 
> So many of the good from Plasmas seems right for him, but he would never tolerate burnin.
> 
> 
> Comments...?



As long as content is mixed up with the majority of it full screen then there won't be a problem


----------



## DayTrader

I've had my TH-50PX80U for two years and I love this TV. Unfortunately, when I bought it I didn't properly break it in, nor did I instruct my wife to stretch the screen when watching programs that are in a 4:3 letterbox format. This has lead to uneven wear along the left and right sides of the screen. A mistake I did not repreat with my new Panasonic TC-p46C2 which still looks great after about 100 hours of use.


The result of my carelessness is an appearent left and right bar that is slightly brigher than the center of the screen. When viewing the breakin images, it is most noticible when viewing the dark grey image. You can hardly see it when viewing the ligher, brigher images.


Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this? Is there a reverse 4:3 image with bright white side bars and a black center that I can get somewhere and would this work? I've tried setting the TV to the 4:3 mode with no input selected which results in light grey side bars and a black center. Would this method fix the problem? Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks.


----------



## Jeff Smith

"As long as content is mixed up with the majority of it full screen then there won't be a problem"


Is that true even though almost all the Blurays will have black bars top and bottom in the same place? I figure that would be 1/3 of his viewing.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeff Smith* /forum/post/19123063
> 
> 
> "As long as content is mixed up with the majority of it full screen then there won't be a problem"
> 
> 
> Is that true even though almost all the Blurays will have black bars top and bottom in the same place? I figure that would be 1/3 of his viewing.



If it is 1/3 of the viewing it shouldn't be a problem. He would just need to avoid a 2:35/40:1 Blu-ray marathon session. As long as content with bars is spaced out with full screen content in between IR won't be a problem. I limit my 2:35/40:1 Blu-ray viewing to no more than once a day. This is not a big deal to me as this self imposed limit is way better than seeing "flashlighting" in the black bars that I would see with my LCD.


----------



## Needanewbewbtube

I really need to get around to playing Demons Souls. I just find it odd that IR that isn't even viewable unless I'm inches from the screen takes so long to go away. Meh.


----------



## MrB84

Hey all, I got a question. I finally broke in my Sammy 7000. So I decided to play Dead Rising 2: Case Zero for about an hour. Since there's a fair amount of text in the GUI, I noticed a little bit of IR after I was done, I threw my break in disc back in for about 10 minutes and it was gone. My question is, is there always going to be a little IR after playing games for like the first 1000 hours of use for my TV, and should I possibly use the break in disc after gaming sessions for a while? I have pixel shift on, yet it's set to do it every 4 minutes, should I decrease the time to around 1 or 2 minutes? Your advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## Buckeye911

^ You will always have a little IR but it should clear quickly with normal "full screen" viewing. Using the break-in disc should not be necessary. I've never done anything special on my Panasonics and IR has never been visible during normal viewing, only on a blank or solid color screen.


----------



## Dayton

Break-in DVD is handy when you do get IR that isn't going away quick enough for your liking. Just pop in the DVD and crank the Contrast and you'll get much further along in removing the IR than from just watching full screen content.


----------



## Panasoniclover

Hi guys,


I'm having a little problem with my S20 (European S2) and I would like to know if it's burn-in or just some nasty image retention.


In the first 200-300 hours I didn't play games on my TV and only did some break-in with regular TV and movies at moderate contrast settings (25 contrast and 30 color in true cinema mode).


After that I started playing Demon's Souls on the PS3 which has very bright HUD elements while most of the backgrounds are very dark.

I played Demon's Souls for about 42 hours over about 2 weeks with some day breaks for about 3-6 hours a day and still can see ghostly darkenings of the brightest HUD parts when an uniform background is displayed around them.


I was quite shocked as usually IR went away after 5 minutes of regular TV programme but this time it didn't.

I tried to wipe it away for approximately 6 hours with the whitewash bar in the service menu and 10 more hours with regular tv programme.

While the IR isn't as bad as it was in the beginning, it is still visible on light uniform backgrounds and reverts back to its old state when playing the game even for short periods of time.


Did I actually manage to get burn-in on a 2010 plasma or is this some kind of killer IR?


Thanks.


----------



## Dayton

Demon's Souls is a bad one because when you're in soul form, which is most of the time, the hud gets that glow. A static brightly glowing image which is not good. I had that "eye" on the right upper part of my screen for about two weeks. Stop playing that game and watch full screen content and possibly run the Break-in DVD with the Contrast maxed. After putting some hours "washing" the screen with the Break-in DVD you should notice a reduction in the IR but don't expect it to go away completely for at least a week or so.


----------



## Panasoniclover

Thank you!


Haha, yes - it's the Demon's Souls' eye that is eyeing me for playing the game for too long. That little swirly thing in the lower right corner is visible, too.


I'm glad to hear that I have the chance to make it go away.


----------



## kreepy

I just ordered the Pan 50S2, and instead of reading all these posts, figured i'd just ask. It's not my 1 plasma, but I was more curious if the warm up "rules" are still the same, turn down the settings and run for about 200~ hours before doing any hard core gaming/watching static images. Thanks.


----------



## powertoold

I'm using my Pioneer Kuro KRP-500m as my main computer monitor. Here are my findings:



> Quote:
> Not sure if anyone cares, but three weeks ago, I started using my 500m as my main computer monitor for 4 hours a day average. I mostly used it to surf the web, chat on AIM, watch videos, and for a bit of gaming.
> 
> 
> I turned Orbiter off and used either Dot-by-Dot or the PC signal mode. I've been using a very low contrast / light output (about 18 contrast of ISF-Night or 12 contrast in PC Standard mode).
> 
> 
> I do all my web-surfing on Firefox fullscreen mode (easily accessed by pressing F11).
> 
> 
> Just today, I noticed some IR of the right-sided scroll bar. This wasn't very surprising, as I surf the web 90% of the time I'm using the computer. It is definitely noticeable on solid colored backgrounds. I'll update again once I see it go away.
> 
> 
> I've prevented further IR by getting rid of the scroll bars entirely (easily done through a userChrome.css config).
> 
> 
> Anyway, plasmas definitely get IR much more easily than a regular CRT. I probably wouldn't have seen something similar unless I used my CRT for a whole year.
> 
> 
> I'm not disappointed though. I'm just reporting my findings as I use my 500m as a monitor, as it should be used There's no doubt I'd get more / worse IR if I used higher contrast, but my room is very dim, so low contrast looks perfect.


----------



## Panasoniclover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Panasoniclover* /forum/post/19133199
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Haha, yes - it's the Demon's Souls' eye that is eyeing me for playing the game for too long. That little swirly thing in the lower right corner is visible, too.
> 
> 
> I'm glad to hear that I have the chance to make it go away.



I have been running the break-in DVD and regular TV programme for quite a while throughout the last week and didn't play any game but unfortunately the Demon's Souls eye and the soul icon did not go away completely.


I am now thinking about running a full white picture with the IR parts of the game's HUD with inversed colors meaning that the light parts will be darker or completely black.


Do you think that this might work?


----------



## Dayton

But hopefully it did become less obvious. It took at least two weeks for Demon's Souls IR to go away from my VT25. Just continue to avoid that game, run the slides from time to time, and try and be patient.


----------



## Panasoniclover

It did indeed become less obvious (and I hope that I'm not just imagining it).


Well, I guess that I have to live another week without Demon's Souls.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Panasoniclover* /forum/post/19156489
> 
> 
> It did indeed become less obvious (and I hope that I'm not just imagining it).
> 
> 
> Well, I guess that I have to live another week without Demon's Souls.



I won't touch that game again, well maybe once I'm passed 1000 hours or so.


----------



## JukeBox360

That's a bit extreme for a new set.


----------



## alanhenson

DVD didn't work in my player either. Guess I will try the usb method.


----------



## deadeye1964

Let me start by saying I am new to plasma's and new to the forum. I have searched and read many threads about break in but have not found any about how to break it in. I have read some things about turning your settings up high for the first 100 hours and I have read about a break in disk. I have read the Samsung manual and nothing is mentioned about break in disks or raising your settings for any amount of time. If someone could explain the best way to break in the new plasma set, I would really appreciate it. I would like to avoid any bone head errors on my part.


Thank you,


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> I have read some things about turning your settings up high for the first 100 hours and I have read about a break in disk.



No you actually do the opposite, reduce the Contrast to 50-60 range for the first 100 hours, often referred to getting "out of torch mode". You may be thinking of running under Vivid or Dyamic when running the slides, but that should be the only time to "turn up" your settings.


----------



## deadeye1964

What is the best way to break in the Samsung PN58C550 Plasma? What should the setting be changed to from out of the box and how long should it remain on those settings for the break in? I read about break in slides, what are those? Sorry for all the elementary questions, this is all new to me and there is absolutely nothing in the Samsung manual about break in or slides.


Thank you for your help.


----------



## alanhenson

Got it to work. I'm using my tv as my computer screen so I started the video from a media program and left it looping. What is a safe amount of time to leave it all running? Do i need to give my computer or tv a break?


----------



## alanhenson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deadeye1964* /forum/post/19165173
> 
> 
> What is the best way to break in the Samsung PN58C550 Plasma? What should the setting be changed to from out of the box and how long should it remain on those settings for the break in? I read about break in slides, what are those? Sorry for all the elementary questions, this is all new to me and there is absolutely nothing in the Samsung manual about break in or slides.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your help.



It's either a video or a repeating set of slides of a solid color that stays on the screen for 30 seconds or so. Then it changes to another color. It helps to break in the pixels evenly. You leave it on repeating for the first couple hundred hours. Mine has been on for about 16 hours straight now. You might want to turn down your brightness and your contrast below 35 for the first couple hundred hours so that when you are watching stations with 4:3 material ,static logos or crawlers at the bottom of the screen you don't burn those images into your tv. Read this thread.


----------



## rhinoballz

Check out my video guide to the best burn/break in method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlzN3voxAXA


----------



## MrB84

Hey guys, I just got done watching football tonight. I got some IR, not too bad though, and I put in my break in disc and it worked on removing it after about 10 minutes. My question is, am I going to have to do this every time after I watch games, or after more time with the TV, will the IR issues eventually get harder to see? I broke it in for about 110 hours with the slides, and after I play games, I put the disc in for another round to keep my phosphors going evenly. Will eventually this get the tv to a point where IR gets less severe? I know it happens with plasmas, but I guess with this being my first ever plasma, I kinda am babying it. Or should I plan on doing more breaking in with it?


----------



## Buckeye911

^ It will go away with normal viewing, no need to repeatedly run the disc. Was the IR you experienced noticeable with normal viewing? If it was that would be pretty unusual. If you can only see it close up or with solid backgrounds you don't need to worry about it. I've had plasmas for five years and I've only had IR noticeable with normal viewing on rare occasions, it disappeared in minutes every time.


----------



## MrB84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/19170110
> 
> 
> ^ It will go away with normal viewing, no need to repeatedly run the disc. Was the IR you experienced noticeable with normal viewing? If it was that would be pretty unusual. If you can only see it close up or with solid backgrounds you don't need to worry about it. I've had plasmas for five years and I've only had IR noticeable with normal viewing on rare occasions, it disappeared in minutes every time.





Cool, thanks. I'm just wondering about IR, since I know its more aged phosphors. Now I keep seeing people write about doing the break in for 300 hours. So does that mean I shouldn't game at all now for another 200 hours of use? I get confused over this.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrB84* /forum/post/19172880
> 
> 
> Cool, thanks. I'm just wondering about IR, since I know its more aged phosphors. Now I keep seeing people write about doing the break in for 300 hours. So does that mean I shouldn't game at all now for another 200 hours of use? I get confused over this.



You can game but if your plasma is "new" try to mix up your content with plenty of full screen content light on static images. The more hours your plasma has the less of an issue IR will be, why 300 hours is a better break-in milestone than 100.


----------



## G20Fan

I fell asleep with my Netflix screen on my PS3 on all night...got home from work today and started watching TV...and the IR is pretty bad..can see all the words and letters from the menu...only had the TV on for about an hour and 30 now so hopefully with some more hours it will go away soon


----------



## G20Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19174891
> 
> 
> The more hours your plasma has the less of an issue IR will be, why 300 hours is a better break-in milestone than 100.




But once you hit the 1,000 hour mark..IR becomes more of a problem and can get worse as the set age.


----------



## kbz1960

I guess after reading a lot of this thread that started in 07 and continuing on into 2010 that IR is still present, the break in disc/usb or whatever you're using is to keep all of the pixels aging the same and has nothing to do with IR but may help get rid of some of it after the fact. And that burn in can still happen.


I can't see paying so much for a TV that you have to limit it's capability to look great to keep from ruining it. I did buy one but now am questioning my choice as I want to watch it just like any of the other TV's that I've owned and did nothing special with.


I honestly don't know how anyone with other than a dimly lighted room or a dark room could stand to watch their TV at such low settings that it looks dark and makes night scenes impossible to see anything going on in them. I didn't get a TV to not like what I'm watching but to LIKE what I'm watching.


Maybe it's all over blown and all internet hype, a lot of bad/misinformation from fanboys etc. Guess I'll just watch it and live with it if I get some IR but burn would be another thing.


BTW great site for some info!


----------



## Couchy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbz1960* /forum/post/19179372
> 
> 
> I guess after reading a lot of this thread that started in 07 and continuing on into 2010 that IR is still present, the break in disc/usb or whatever you're using is to keep all of the pixels aging the same and has nothing to do with IR but may help get rid of some of it after the fact. And that burn in can still happen.
> 
> 
> I can't see paying so much for a TV that you have to limit it's capability to look great to keep from ruining it. I did buy one but now am questioning my choice as I want to watch it just like any of the other TV's that I've owned and did nothing special with.
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know how anyone with other than a dimly lighted room or a dark room could stand to watch their TV at such low settings that it looks dark and makes night scenes impossible to see anything going on in them. I didn't get a TV to not like what I'm watching but to LIKE what I'm watching.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's all over blown and all internet hype, a lot of bad/misinformation from fanboys etc. Guess I'll just watch it and live with it if I get some IR but burn would be another thing.
> 
> 
> BTW great site for some info!



That was your second post, this is my first.


You just have to go with what you feel comfortable with. I order my g25 yesterday and decided plasma was right for me after lots of research. The majority of my friends all have lcd's and 2 have plasmas.


None of them take the time and effort to do due diligence before purchasing things that I do. With that said, my friend has a 5 year old samsung plasma that has never gone through a break-in (he had never heard of it until me) and it's still a great tv and has zero burn-in/IR. If there is some it's so minimal I've never noticed it.


The only reason you won't be happy is if you continue to stress out about burn-in. Just enjoy the tv. I'm personally just going to drop the necessary setting to at/below 50% and avoid the other stuff. for the first 100-200hours and watch tv. I'll probably run the color slides during this time while I'm not watching it to speed up the process.


----------



## kbz1960

Yep, I think that's what I'm going to do also. Thanks


----------



## alanhenson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbz1960* /forum/post/19179372
> 
> 
> I guess after reading a lot of this thread that started in 07 and continuing on into 2010 that IR is still present, the break in disc/usb or whatever you're using is to keep all of the pixels aging the same and has nothing to do with IR but may help get rid of some of it after the fact. And that burn in can still happen.
> 
> 
> I can't see paying so much for a TV that you have to limit it's capability to look great to keep from ruining it. I did buy one but now am questioning my choice as I want to watch it just like any of the other TV's that I've owned and did nothing special with.
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know how anyone with other than a dimly lighted room or a dark room could stand to watch their TV at such low settings that it looks dark and makes night scenes impossible to see anything going on in them. I didn't get a TV to not like what I'm watching but to LIKE what I'm watching.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's all over blown and all internet hype, a lot of bad/misinformation from fanboys etc. Guess I'll just watch it and live with it if I get some IR but burn would be another thing.
> 
> 
> BTW great site for some info!



I kinda look at plasmas like I do my sports cars. They take more maintenance but they are more rewarding to drive. Sure you can go get an LCD and run it and never worry about it, but if you're like me you'll always wish you had the best. People always ask this question about my Corvette Z06. Is it worth the extra money over the base Corvette. It was 20K more expensive than the regular Vette. It's hotter, louder and stiffer and it eats tires for lunch. So I always tell them if you even need to ask then you should buy the regular Vette. For those of us who love to drive and have to drive the best then the question never crosses our mind. I guess you just have to decide what kind of guy you are. 98% of people ar regular Vette people. I think maybe that's one resaon LCDs are taking over.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alanhenson* /forum/post/19183678
> 
> 
> I kinda look at plasmas like I do my sports cars. They take more maintenance but they are more rewarding to drive. Sure you can go get an LCD and run it and never worry about it, but if you're like me you'll always wish you had the best. People always ask this question about my Corvette Z06. Is it worth the extra money over the base Corvette. It was 20K more expensive than the regular Vette. It's hotter, louder and stiffer and it eats tires for lunch. So I always tell them if you even need to ask then you should buy the regular Vette. For those of us who love to drive and have to drive the best then the question never crosses our mind. I guess you just have to decide what kind of guy you are. 98% of people ar regular Vette people. I think maybe that's one resaon LCDs are taking over.



For me it comes down to which would you rather have, IR which is temporary or a non-uniform backlight (clouding and flashlighting) which is permanent.


----------



## JukeBox360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alanhenson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda look at plasmas like I do my sports cars. They take more maintenance but they are more rewarding to drive. Sure you can go get an LCD and run it and never worry about it, but if you're like me you'll always wish you had the best. People always ask this question about my Corvette Z06. Is it worth the extra money over the base Corvette. It was 20K more expensive than the regular Vette. It's hotter, louder and stiffer and it eats tires for lunch. So I always tell them if you even need to ask then you should buy the regular Vette. For those of us who love to drive and have to drive the best then the question never crosses our mind. I guess you just have to decide what kind of guy you are. 98% of people ar regular Vette people. I think maybe that's one resaon LCDs are taking over.



I couldn't disagree anymore with this statement. By what your saying. More maintenance means better product? That may be true for cars. But if FAR from true for a Television set. Even then. Depends on the car and type of performance. But I would never compare buying a TV set with a car.


----------



## powertoold




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JukeBox360* /forum/post/19183878
> 
> 
> I couldn't disagree anymore with this statement. By what your saying. More maintenance means better product? That may be true for cars. But if FAR from true for a Television set. Even then. Depends on the car and type of performance. But I would never compare buying a TV set with a car.



No, you read it wrong.


----------



## Methodical_1

Can you do the break-in intermittently. For example: 1 day do it for 24 hrs when I am at home; next day do it for 12 hours (from the time I get home from work until I go to work in the morning, say 6pm-6am, then shut the tv down until I get home and start the process over).


Also, at what speed should the slide show be set to; slow, normal, fast etc.


I am interested in the Plasma tv and want to make sure everything's ok with it as I just suffered a dead Mitsubishi DLP caused by bad internal power boards (caused by bad or cheap internal capacitors - well known problem). Right now, I don't trust those Mits DLPs anymore so exploring a different technology. I don't want to be purchasing new tvs every couple years as I don't have to have the latest and greatest.


Thanks...Al


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G20Fan* /forum/post/19176780
> 
> 
> But once you hit the 1,000 hour mark..IR becomes more of a problem and can get worse as the set age.



Really? So plasma screens are most suceptible to IR from 0 to 200/300 hours after wich they stabilize until they hit 1000 hours and its all downhill from there. Please someone tell me this is false.


----------



## kbz1960

Well I did have to take mine back as it had a dead pixel right in the middle of the screen. I did run the color dvd for several hours when I got it and turned the settings down. After 5 days I turned it up to watch the Bears game.


I noticed the dead pixel after a couple days and had the geeksquad come out and he said to just take it back and exchange it or get something different. When I got to bb they had to have the geeksquad look at it there and they kept coming back to tell me that they couldn't see it. I told them to get a light screen on and it's right in the middle.


They came back a couple times and said they still can't see it and asked me to come show them. They had a dark screen on so I said you need a light screen or run the wiper thing. They didn't have a clue what the wipe was so I showed them and then they could see it (makes me wonder if they know anything) but when they were running the wipe you could also see IR from watching the Bears game of FOX in the upper corner. They said it was burn but I'm assuming it was IR.


They asked how long were you watching sports on FOX. I said I watched the Bears game 3 hours or so, however long the game took and then they asked if I just shut it off after the game and I said yes to box it up to bring it in when I got off of work today since I work and don't live where I bought it.


I ask then if I should be running the wipe after watching just one game with the dang logo thing on it and they told me to never run that cause it will drastically reduce the TV life........ again I have to wonder if they know anything about them at all.


At any rate my replacement had to be ordered and won't be in till Saturday. Starting to wonder if I really want to have to baby it and watch what I view on it and have to watch on low settings which I don't like at all, it's too dark for me.


----------



## MrB84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioVideoPhilia* /forum/post/19186019
> 
> 
> Really? So plasma screens are most suceptible to IR from 0 to 200/300 hours after wich they stabilize until they hit 1000 hours and its all downhill from there. Please someone tell me this is false.






I'm new to plasma, but from a few buddies of mine who have had their plasmas for over 4 years, and sunk thousands of hours in them watching movies and games, and to have no IR in them afterwards, I find it hard to see how that works. I have not seen any problems whatsoever honestly.


----------



## kbz1960




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrB84* /forum/post/19186432
> 
> 
> I'm new to plasma, but from a few buddies of mine who have had their plasmas for over 4 years, and sunk thousands of hours in them watching movies and games, and to have no IR in them afterwards, I find it hard to see how that works. I have not seen any problems whatsoever honestly.



That's nice to hear. All though I can't figure out why the one I took back had IR after just watching one game. I'm sure it would've disappeared after watching something different.


----------



## EldoradoSan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbz1960* /forum/post/19186571
> 
> 
> That's nice to hear. All though I can't figure out why the one I took back had IR after just watching one game. I'm sure it would've disappeared after watching something different.



Exactly. Things don't go away in an instant. But they do go away. The dead pixel maybe, maybe not.


----------



## jay541

ive been running the evangelo slides on my usb on a c8000 and i notice when i look up close that when i have a red slide all the pixels will be red but the last line of pixels to the left and right vertically will be blue on one side and green on the other. Same when its green, the last line of pixels on the left is red and the other is blue. But when its a blue screen the last line of pixels is a darker blue than the rest. is this normal?


----------



## MrB84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jay541* /forum/post/19187256
> 
> 
> ive been running the evangelo slides on my usb on a c8000 and i notice when i look up close that when i have a red slide all the pixels will be red but the last line of pixels to the left and right vertically will be blue on one side and green on the other. Same when its green, the last line of pixels on the left is red and the other is blue. But when its a blue screen the last line of pixels is a darker blue than the rest. is this normal?





I had the same problem, someone mentioned it earlier, but I turned off the pixel shift on mine, and the line went away. Also, I've noticed my IR goes away a lot faster when I have pixel shift turned off on my Sammy when I run the slides. Dunno if that is anything, but I've seen it work. Try that.


----------



## jay541

is there anything else? ive turned picture shift off and it still does it. i dont think its really a problem since all the pixels get worked, it just seems weird


----------



## nall256




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioVideoPhilia* /forum/post/19186019
> 
> 
> Really? So plasma screens are most suceptible to IR from 0 to 200/300 hours after wich they stabilize until they hit 1000 hours and its all downhill from there. Please someone tell me this is false.



THIS, please.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioVideoPhilia* /forum/post/19186019
> 
> 
> Really? So plasma screens are most suceptible to IR from 0 to 200/300 hours after wich they stabilize until they hit 1000 hours and its all downhill from there. Please someone tell me this is false.



That's not true, when it comes to IR the more hours on the plasma the less of an issue is IR. Thinking in math terms the relationship remains inversely proportional. At least that is how I understand it and I haven't come across anything saying different.


----------



## nall256




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19194497
> 
> 
> That's not true, when it comes to IR the more hours on the plasma the less of an issue is IR. Thinking in math terms the relationship remains inversely proportional. At least that is how I understand it and I haven't come across anything saying different.



Thanks, mine's already at the 300ish mark and has pretty terrible IR after playing games. If things got worse I'd have a problem.


----------



## Jack_6428

Hi guys, I have a question... I have the Panasonic TH42PZ80E model, bought it 2 years ago (around May 2008) and now I want to buy a new Playstation 3 to play games and watch movies. Of course I'll have it connected through HDMI. I'll be playing randomly different games around 5 hours a day, one game no more than 3 hours straight. Should I fear of burn-in and IR or is this model of plasma resistent enough? Anyone want to share experiences? I need as many answers as possible. Ever since I got the new screen I have been watching a mix of SD and HD content, some with black bars, some without, without any problems.

Thanks!


----------



## nall256

I'll let others speak for the burn-in, but IR is nothing to really worry about, you might have some IR for 10 minutes or so after playing a game with a persistent bright HUD but the IR will completely go away after watching some HD content.


----------



## MrB84

Here's a question about IR. When I get a small amount of it, do I have to get rid of it before I turn off the TV, or can I turn it off, and watch TV later to get rid of it? I hate to sound stupid, but I just want to make sure.


----------



## Jack_6428

So I called Panasonic and they have told me that it won't be an issue and I shouldn't be worried. They said I can game up to 4 hours straight and then I should change the signal for a few minutes just to make sure. They said that eventually I can play all day if I won't be playing the same game and will be playing different games. They don't deal with the issue anymore, because the newer sets are supposedly immune against burn-in (up to 4 generations back). That's a great thing to hear. So now I just need to order the PS3 and then party!


----------



## tchrstm

I just received my replacement PN58C8000 yesterday and had a question on break in settings. During the day/evening, we'll be watching HD content, no bars, no static images, etc. Overnight I will be running the webapalooza slides from a USB drive, which I started last night.


My question is which setting is best for the transition between slides, fade or no effect? To me the fade effect would seem to be better as the pixels are always on vs the momentary black screen between slides when there is no effect. I am a plasma noob however, so appreciate any advice.


Also, I'm running standard settings out of the box with the exception of contrast and brightness at 50. Any other changes I should consider?


----------



## kbz1960

So who is the most knowledgeable poster here to listen to. When running the slides should the set have contrast and brightness turned down or up?


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia

The way its been explained to me, the point of running the slides is to allow you to break in your plasma faster by doing it in torch mode. Something you should not do if you brake it in by watching tv and movies because network logos, tiker bars and masks would likely cause bad image retention.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbz1960* /forum/post/19206311
> 
> 
> So who is the most knowledgeable poster here to listen to. When running the slides should the set have contrast and brightness turned down or up?



For Break-in the slides should be run under your usual viewing settings. Cranking up the Contrast, or running under a Vivid or Dynamic mode, while running the slides is a method to remove IR. At least that's how I understand it.


----------



## atking23

Can any body tell me for certain what is the maximum settings on the "pixel shift" menu? so is more better or less better? should I live it on 4-4-1 or 1-1-1?


Is there any concencus? I'd like to see a concencus why is this that is subjective.


----------



## RockinZ28

I'm trying to break my plasma in. I was using the DVD in my pc, but I don't trust either of my computers to be 24/7 stable to leave it running all day/night.


I now have it on the USB stick. But for the slideshow on my TV, when it transitions to the next slide, the screen goes black for a second before displaying the next image. There are other slideshow effects that do various visuals as it's changing the image, but I figure that will cause uneven wear?


Is it ok for the display to be going black every few seconds while I'm breaking it in?


----------



## tchrstm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RockinZ28* /forum/post/19208340
> 
> 
> I'm trying to break my plasma in. I was using the DVD in my pc, but I don't trust either of my computers to be 24/7 stable to leave it running all day/night.
> 
> 
> I now have it on the USB stick. But for the slideshow on my TV, when it transitions to the next slide, the screen goes black for a second before displaying the next image. There are other slideshow effects that do various visuals as it's changing the image, but I figure that will cause uneven wear?
> 
> 
> Is it ok for the display to be going black every few seconds while I'm breaking it in?



I'm breaking in a 58C8000 using the webapalooza slides on a USB drive and had the same question between the fade effect or no effect. To me the fade seemed best because it would gradually cycle the pixels. I emailed the creator of the slides and he said he'd probably go that route as well. At the end of the day, I really dont think it matters and either way you'll be aging them much more evenly than just watching the TV.


It's very debatable that plasma panels need break in via specific slides, but for the minimal effort it gives me greater piece of mind.


----------



## Derfmit

Ok, I hope I am posting this in the right place.


I have a Panny TC-P42U2. I love the picture and I am very pleased with my purchase.


Here is the problem:


While I was careful for the first couple months of use, I think I got careless with the music feature on my PS3. It displays album art and the title at the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. I first noticed the 'IR' about a week ago. Now after watching several movies, several times, full screen, over the course of a week, it is still there. Of course I have turned down contrast and brightness to 50, except for when I am trying to wash off the IR with full screen, moving content (at which point I use VIVID).



I spent a long time trying to find some reassurance from your site, and found some. It sounds like most IR is not permanent. Most dismiss any talk of "burn-in" out of hand.


Really what i want to know is, what can I do to get rid of this image quicker?

Is it possible that this is permanent IR?



Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!


----------



## Dayton

The PS3 Dashboard is on the sharp side, which looks great but it does make it's bright white text become IR easily. I am alway suprised by how quickly the little circular clock gets retained by my Panny VT25.


Run the Break-in DVD overnight, or any time you aren't watching TV, under a Vivid or Dyamic mode. You should notice the retained image lessen. Give it a week or so and it should be almost gone.


----------



## Derfmit

Thanks for the quick reply!


Which actually leads me to my next couple questions. I have heard of a lot of people getting vertical line IR from the break-in dvd. I made a copy, but the accounts I heard made me nervous. The one i have is the one I think most people talk about on this site, that rotates through various solid color stills.

The other thing I heard is that IR is best removed my moving video (16:9 or stretched; blu-ray or DVD)


I actually have two questions about this.


One:

Are the concerns about the break-in dvd causing IR legitimate?


Two:

Are still images effective at safely removing IR or only really for preventing it?


----------



## Dayton

When you run the Break-in DVD or slides you want to make sure that they are being displayed over the entire screen. Issues with the slides creating IR is from not doing the above, displaying the slides with black bars and not noticing.


"Snow" is another option for content to remove IR.


The slides are meant to put even wear on the panel and to put hours on the set as IR becomes less of a problem as the plasma ages.


----------



## powertoold

lol this is hilarious


People concerned about IR are now concerned about the prevention of IR causing IR.


----------



## NickSP

I had asked this before but since I believe "snow" is the best IR reomoval, how do I get snow on my TV. I have a Panny 54G10 and it displays snow for 5 seconds or so and then the snow vanishes to a dark screen.


----------



## pepsicola74

Just got my first Plasma (Samsung PN58C680) today.

Already running the break in DVD over my playstation3.


TV was delivered with Contrast set to 90 .

I reduced that to 40.

So for the break in i'm running:

Contrast

Cell Light 10

Contrast 40

Brightness 45

Sharpness 50

Color 50

Tint (G/R) G50/R50


are these settings good, or should i reduce Contrast/Brightness for break in period?


thanks for your help....


btw, the picture looks a little bit "noisy to me" (coming from 1080p DLP) but i think i can reduce that over the picture settings after break in.


----------



## Derfmit

I still would like to know: Are still images or moving images more effective at IR removal?


I am trying snow right now.


Thanks


----------



## Dayton

The slides run under a high Contrast are just a nice alternative to the built-in "wash" which you don't want to overuse. I've never tried "snow". The slides under high Contrast works but you do have to be patient. Curious if "snow" would be quicker.


----------



## Derfmit

I have gone back to the breakin dvd because I didn't feel that snow was as safe. Plus my TV auto shuts off to no signal.


The horizontal (sorry I said vertical earlier, guess that was something else) line IR that I had heard about was not on account of bars, but rather a thin line in the color plane. You can look at the forum and check out the complaints.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ewokultra* /forum/post/9319166
> 
> 
> I have a new Panasonic TH-50PX600U. The brightness and picture (contrast) are at -20. I started to use the Breakin DVD on a SONY DVP-NS315 progressive scan player with the TV aspect at ZOOM. I have not watched anything else on the plasma yet. Ran the DVD overnight for 9 hours. On the second night of breakin, I noticed the faint horizontal line in the middle of the picture plane on some of the lighter screens. I did not notice this on the first night of breakin. I then tried the DVD in a SONY DVP-NC85H upconverting player with the TV aspect at FULL. I got the same results; The faint, darker-than-background, horizontal line in the middle of the picture plane on the lighter screens. I toggled the picture setting to VIVID (higher brightness and contrast) and the horizontal line was not noticable. None-the-less, I have stopped using the breakin DVD.
> 
> 
> For those who have seen the screen line that I am talking about, were the TV's brightness and contrast set as low as mine? Has anyone been able to get to the bottom of this? Is this a plasma glass issue? Anyone call Panasonic about this yet?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> ewokultra


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...583089&page=11 


He is not the only one either.



Thanks again


----------



## Dayton

I would look at sections of the slides having different shades as a faulty panel. They should appear "solid" throughout the screen. If this occurs where black bars would be from 2:35:1 or 4:3 content then it is IR. The slides are meant to put even wear on the plasma, if this doesn't look to be happening then the slides are just exposing a deficiency in the panel not creating one.


----------



## Mach1Man

Question ????


Will you hear buzzing if you have it while buring in using the Evangelo2 DVD??? Have burned in my new Sammy PN50C550 for 3 12 hour stints and panel is dead quiet.


Thinking I have a non-buzzer but haven't watched any DVD / TV yet.


Thank You


----------



## powertoold




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mach1Man* /forum/post/19232753
> 
> 
> Question ????
> 
> 
> Will you hear buzzing if you have it while buring in using the Evangelo2 DVD??? Have burned in my new Sammy PN50C550 for 3 12 hour stints and panel is dead quiet.
> 
> 
> Thinking I have a non-buzzer but haven't watched any DVD / TV yet.
> 
> 
> Thank You



Yes, should be buzzing at its most buzzingness. It seems you have a non-buzzer.


----------



## MrB84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *powertoold* /forum/post/19236395
> 
> 
> Yes, should be buzzing at its most buzzingness. It seems you have a non-buzzer.





I should be happy then, since I've had my TV run at times for 15 hours during my break in period, and I've heard no buzzing at all. Yes!!!!


----------



## Derfmit

Has anyone here had IR that took several months to go away?


----------



## Derfmit

I asked the previous question for a reason. Allow me to clarify:


I have had image retention for two weeks now, and I have been using various anti-IR methods, for varying lengths of time (two hours here, four hours there) and lots of full screen movies and TV. Not sure if it is fading, or if it is only my wishful thinking. I would like to know if there are people on here who have had IR for a month or more, yet eventually saw improvement and, hopefully, complete restoration of their plasma screen.


While I am truly happy for those of you who have not had IR, or have only had it for a day or two, your positive experiences with your plasmas are very little comfort to me since my situation is clearly different from yours. It would put my mind at ease if I could hear from some people who once had medium to long-range IR (a WEEK or MORE) and saw a full recovery.



Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## Dayton

The worst I had was IR for about two weeks, thank you Demon's Souls soul form. But I was able to greatly reduce it by running the break-in slides at max Contrast over night. I think I would be worried about month long IR that doesn't appear to be getting better.


----------



## Derfmit

Thanks again for all your quick replies Dayton.


I have heard of a few people who had it for a month and it did eventually fade to ALMOST imperceptible. But I also hear a lot of people say if it isn't gone by 48 hours you're SOL.


I have not yet been willing to let it run over night. Now I am using the Pioneer IR wash vcd. Over all I imagine I have used it and the break-in dvd well over 12 hours, but not all at once.


----------



## NickSP

After owning the Panny 54G10 for over 6 months now, I think this "new plasmas don't have IR or burn in" is hog wash. I have my contrast on low and everything but no matter what, some bright colorful logos (idiotic channels) will leave some or other kind of IR or burn in. I periodically let my color slides run which tend to help but the newer plasmas behave the same as the older ones IMHO. If the difference in PQ was not all that much, I would have sold this for an LED but the PQ on my plasma is too good and I would rather take as much precaution against IR than get an LCD/LED.


----------



## nall256




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/19258828
> 
> 
> After owning the Panny 54G10 for over 6 months now, I think this "new plasmas don't have IR or burn in" is hog wash. I have my contrast on low and everything but no matter what, some bright colorful logos (idiotic channels) will leave some or other kind of IR or burn in. I periodically let my color slides run which tend to help but the newer plasmas behave the same as the older ones IMHO. If the difference in PQ was not all that much, I would have sold this for an LED but the PQ on my plasma is too good and I would rather take as much precaution against IR than get an LCD/LED.



I love watching ESPN's full screen replays on my set because I can still see the scoreboard!

I believe I was misled by salespersons about IR when buying my Samsung. I don't care too much for better PQ and I could have lived with poor off angle viewing from LCDs because at least I wouldnt constantly in fear of irreparable damage.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nall256* /forum/post/19259727
> 
> 
> I love watching ESPN's full screen replays on my set because I can still see the scoreboard!
> 
> I believe I was misled by salespersons about IR when buying my Samsung. I don't care too much for better PQ and I could have lived with poor off angle viewing from LCDs because at least I wouldnt constantly in fear of irreparable damage.



I hear you man. I just feel Plasmas are more vibrant and realistic looking than LCDs.

I have a SD card in my SD slot at all times and every night like clockwork, I run color slides. Heck at a rated 100K hours of life, I can afford it







.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/19258828
> 
> 
> After owning the Panny 54G10 for over 6 months now, I think this "new plasmas don't have IR or burn in" is hog wash. I have my contrast on low and everything but no matter what, some bright colorful logos (idiotic channels) will leave some or other kind of IR or burn in. I periodically let my color slides run which tend to help but the newer plasmas behave the same as the older ones IMHO. If the difference in PQ was not all that much, I would have sold this for an LED but the PQ on my plasma is too good and I would rather take as much precaution against IR than get an LCD/LED.



I don't think any knowledgeable person would say plasmas don't get IR, what most say is that it isn't a problem. I own two Panasonic plasmas and they both get IR pretty quickly but it has absolutely NEVER been visible during normal viewing. If the screen is a solid color and/or I get two or three feet from the screen it's visible but if I just relax and watch TV I absolutely cannot see it and I don't take any special precautions to avoid it. In your case, are you seeing IR with normal viewing?


I will say that permanent burn-in is very rare these days but I have seen it in on PDPs a few times and once on an LCD.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nall256* /forum/post/19259727
> 
> 
> I love watching ESPN's full screen replays on my set because I can still see the scoreboard!
> 
> I believe I was misled by salespersons about IR when buying my Samsung. I don't care too much for better PQ and I could have lived with poor off angle viewing from LCDs because at least I wouldnt constantly in fear of irreparable damage.



But IR does become less of a problem as the plasma ages. This has definitely been my experience with my VT25. I notice I think about it less and less and instead just enjoy the amazing PQ. To me the biggest flaw with LCD is the inconsitency of the backlight and this never goes away. You just get flashlighing and clouding whenever a dark scene is displayed in a dimly lit room to remind you of the persistent flaw.


----------



## nall256




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19262251
> 
> 
> But IR does become less of a problem as the plasma ages. This has definitely been my experience with my VT25. I notice I think about it less and less and instead just enjoy the amazing PQ. To me the biggest flaw with LCD is the inconsitency of the backlight and this never goes away. You just get flashlighing and clouding whenever a dark scene is displayed in a dimly lit room to remind you of the persistent flaw.



I hear ya, and watching most tv/movies is a superior experience compared to LCD, but I am going to have to pick up a 50"+ LCD as I have a habit of using windows media center from my pc, and if I left something playing and got called into work I imagine I will have some burn in to deal with when I get home. I wonder if it is socially acceptable to have 2 50" sets in the living room?


----------



## Derfmit

If anyone is curious...


It is getting pretty close to four weeks since I first noticed the IR on my Panny. It is still there.


Today I am going to try something different. I am going to use the second visualization setting for music playback on the PS3, with no song titles, for IR removal.


The irony is that it is the song titles for music playback on the ps3 that caused the IR in the first place.



This setting has lots of moving waves of color that are full screen and constantly changing with no still images. I'll be doing this with vivid set to high contrast and brightness (100 on both).


I am going to try to do this for 8 hours.


----------



## Derfmit

Still have IR


----------



## nall256

Okay so would leaving a solid white image on the screen reduce this man's burn in? If not, the best thing to do is ignore it and hope that some time in the future it will disappear.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Derfmit* /forum/post/19309215
> 
> 
> Still have IR



Just curious, is your IR visible with normal viewing or is it just visible if you look for it on a blank or solid screen?


----------



## sigmaace01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/19258828
> 
> 
> After owning the Panny 54G10 for over 6 months now, I think this "new plasmas don't have IR or burn in" is hog wash. I have my contrast on low and everything but no matter what, some bright colorful logos (idiotic channels) will leave some or other kind of IR or burn in. I periodically let my color slides run which tend to help but the newer plasmas behave the same as the older ones IMHO. If the difference in PQ was not all that much, I would have sold this for an LED but the PQ on my plasma is too good and I would rather take as much precaution against IR than get an LCD/LED.



This really makes me not want to buy Samsung's PN50C8000. I don't want to have to babysit a TV. I really want it, though.


----------



## RockinZ28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sigmaace01* /forum/post/19337544
> 
> 
> This really makes me not want to buy Samsung's PN50C8000. I don't want to have to babysit a TV. I really want it, though.



Long story short, I found out a couple weeks ago I'd be receiving a brand new 58c7000 because my original had a dead pixel.


So that gave me the go ahead to abuse my tv for two weeks. Had around 100 hours break-in. Started watching 2.35:1 movies with black bars top and bottom, and playing the racing sim F1 2010 (helmet pov, lots of HUD and the car onscreen as still images for long periods) for a couple hours+ here and there.


Noticed very slight IR if at all, and immediately went away using the scrolling or watching a fullscreen movie.


This was a huge contrast to my PN50B650 from last year. That thing can get pretty heaving IR after only a few minutes, like the score bar at the bottom on ESPN. It goes away but it's annoying.


So in that regard I think Samsung made a big improvement.


----------



## Derfmit

Sorry I've been out of the loop for awhile. I have a Panny.


My IR is seen primarily on solid colors: white, orange, etc. If the conditions are right, it can be quite visible during movies. I don't understand IR showing on black screens, since the pixels are not illuminated at all, but I have seen people talk about it on these forums. Mine is not like that.


It is still there.


It is a box and some words that have been retained on the screen from the music playback app on my ps3. It may have faded some, but not much.


The break-in dvd had little to no effect.


I have quite a bit of hope for the pixel protector blu-ray I have on the way.


I'll let you know how this goes.


----------



## dhkinil

having trouble sorting through this, I am getting a tcp58 s2 next week and am looking to download the burn in files, which I also understand will id any dead pixels for me. I have a mac, could someone repost the link where I can get the files I need and if I need a pc, let me know if there is a mac version available. I can burn dvd's no problem and can load an sd card in fat 32.


Thanks,


----------



## hugabone

Well, I have around sixty hours breakin on my Samsung PN50C550. I hope that helps after 100 hours because I get IR even after a couple of minutes on movie mode! I bought a PN42C450 before this and didn't have any IR problems even in torch mode and I didn't break that in. I hope the break in works.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dhkinil* /forum/post/19353339
> 
> 
> having trouble sorting through this, I am getting a tcp58 s2 next week and am looking to download the burn in files, which I also understand will id any dead pixels for me. I have a mac, could someone repost the link where I can get the files I need and if I need a pc, let me know if there is a mac version available. I can burn dvd's no problem and can load an sd card in fat 32.
> 
> 
> Thanks,



The image for the DVD can be found here:
http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


The slides can be found here:
http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php


----------



## dhkinil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19354319
> 
> 
> The image for the DVD can be found here:
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> The slides can be found here:
> http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php



thanks


----------



## DigitalFirefly

I got the Samsung PN50C8000 last Thursday. Its primary use will be for BluRay movies and video games.


I've been playing an NCAA football video game and there's a score display on the bottom of the screen during the whole game. Games generally last about 30-45 minutes. After turning off the game and going back to TV I can see IR of the score box. It does go away after normal viewing or if I use the built in IR prevention scroller.


I'm a little concerned that if I keep playing the same game, even if the IR goes away, that it may become more permanent. Also, a lot of my Blu Rays are letter boxed. Should I be concerned about watching those?


I don't want to have to run the IR prevention scroller after every viewing. Is it ok to turn off the TV when there's IR there or do I need to leave the TV on until the IR is gone?


Since I've only had the TV for less than a week, so I can still return it. If I'm going to game and watch movies with letter box would I be better off with an LCD or LED? This is my first Plasma, all my other TVs are LCD.


Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DigitalFirefly* /forum/post/19357355
> 
> 
> I got the Samsung PN50C8000 last Thursday. Its primary use will be for BluRay movies and video games.
> 
> 
> I've been playing an NCAA football video game and there's a score display on the bottom of the screen during the whole game. Games generally last about 30-45 minutes. After turning off the game and going back to TV I can see IR of the score box. It does go away after normal viewing or if I use the built in IR prevention scroller.
> 
> 
> I'm a little concerned that if I keep playing the same game, even if the IR goes away, that it may become more permanent. Also, a lot of my Blu Rays are letter boxed. Should I be concerned about watching those?
> 
> 
> I don't want to have to run the IR prevention scroller after every viewing. Is it ok to turn off the TV when there's IR there or do I need to leave the TV on until the IR is gone?
> 
> 
> Since I've only had the TV for less than a week, so I can still return it. If I'm going to game and watch movies with letter box would I be better off with an LCD or LED? This is my first Plasma, all my other TVs are LCD.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.



IR will be less of a problem/annoyance in time. It will still occur but will go away much quicker. Turning off the plasma doesn't get rid of IR, only the display of full screen non-static images will remove it. So you will have to mix up your viewing, can't be all gaming or all 2:35:1 content.


If this sounds like "babying" and you aren't bothered by the input lag and non-uniform backlight of LCD, then maybe LCD would be the better choice.


----------



## maton1200

Break in dvds / images seem useful but the fact that you have to let your tv for about 190 hours before putting static images like videogames its really disappointing, specially if you dont watch tv or dont like to watch too many movies.


So you have yo let your tv turned on all day with the break in images, your energy bill may get really expensive.


Does image orbiter and white wash work on panasonic?, i think that is more practical that waiting for over 190 hours before playing any videogames or watching any HD channel with some logo onscreen.


----------



## DigitalFirefly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19357906
> 
> 
> IR will be less of a problem/annoyance in time. It will still occur but will go away much quicker. Turning off the plasma doesn't get rid of IR, only the display of full screen non-static images will remove it. So you will have to mix up your viewing, can't be all gaming or all 2:35:1 content.
> 
> 
> If this sounds like "babying" and you aren't bothered by the input lag and non-uniform backlight of LCD, then maybe LCD would be the better choice.



Is it ok to turn off a plasma that has IR? So far I've noticed when turning it back on the IR is still there and goes away after a short period.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DigitalFirefly* /forum/post/19358247
> 
> 
> Is it ok to turn off a plasma that has IR? So far I've noticed when turning it back on the IR is still there and goes away after a short period.



Yes it's fine to turn off the plasma with IR still present. I've got in the habit of playing a "slide show" from the 360 picture viewer right after gaming before turning off the TV. With Fallout 3 New Vegas out today and Fable III next week I think I'm going to find out how "broken-in" my 54VT25 is.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maton1200* /forum/post/19358179
> 
> 
> Break in dvds / images seem useful but the fact that you have to let your tv for about 190 hours before putting static images like videogames its really disappointing, specially if you dont watch tv or dont like to watch too many movies.
> 
> 
> So you have yo let your tv turned on all day with the break in images, your energy bill may get really expensive.
> 
> 
> Does image orbiter and white wash work on panasonic?, i think that is more practical that waiting for over 190 hours before playing any videogames or watching any HD channel with some logo onscreen.



I think of the break-in DVD as a way to put hours on the plasma more quickly. I don't think of it as exclusive content for a new plasma until 100+ hours are reached. As long as you mix up your viewing habits and don't game for too long you should be able to enjoy your new plasma right away.


----------



## terra3

I see that there are variations on the break-in image cycles. Some (the ones I d/l'd) have 20 images - primary and white/grey. Others have upward of 70 or more.


No real difference in using one over the other?


----------



## High Gear

This may have been needed with some older plasmas but Panasonic told me yesterday it's not needed.


----------



## Guibs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19358586
> 
> 
> Yes it's fine to turn off the plasma with IR still present. I've got in the habit of playing a "slide show" from the 360 picture viewer right after gaming before turning off the TV. With Fallout 3 New Vegas out today and Fable III next week I think I'm going to find out how "broken-in" my 54VT25 is.



Just so you know, you can reduce the opacity (sp?) of the in game overlay in fallout new vegas so you can make it almost invisible to prevent burn-in. I wish more games as that feature.


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guibs* /forum/post/19371693
> 
> 
> Just so you know, you can reduce the opacity (sp?) of the in game overlay in fallout new vegas so you can make it almost invisible to prevent burn-in. I wish more games as that feature.



Next-gen consoles should allow this through hardware settings. Game devs would have to draw their HUDs onto a layer(think photoshop) whose opacity could be set by the user through the console's global settings. In effect allowing gamers to set HUD transparency for every single game.


----------



## d4m4g3

I want to buy a plasma TV - Samsung PS42C450, my first flat TV and I'm worried about IR or burn-in. I read something about that but I still don't know to much. First I was thinking about a LCD (LG 42LD450) but when I found this Samsung I started thinking about plasma.


I want to know if IR or burn in it is a real problem to that TV for normal use: TV channels (they have still logos), MKV movies (here are black bars), some music/photos from USB player (here are again still images). Sometimes maybe I will connect it to PC for movies or some gaming - but rarely.

I need to take care for how much time I watch someting or in what mode/color or I can use it normal without being so carefull with it?


I read something about break-in or using with careful for at least 100hours which is a lot for a person who watch a movie in a day and that's all. Maybe one-two days don't watch anything - that is like waiting a few months only to prepair it for normal use.


----------



## Traxion

Does anyone have a link to a download for a white noise video loop, like the one used in the pixel protector dvd? I have a little bit of image retention from too many hours of fox business news that I need to get off the screen, and I've heard that this is one of the best methods for doing this. Thanks...


----------



## Amkus

I just got my TV (P42U1) and am starting the break in, following the instructions from the link in the first post. Problem is that some of the advanced picture settings are greyed out.


From what I've read, you need an HD connection to change them; I currently don't have one.


Does it matter if I leave Color Matrix: SD and Black Level: dark? I'm guessing not, but all this is new to me so I want to be as cautious as possible.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Amkus* /forum/post/19422771
> 
> 
> I just got my TV (P42U1) and am starting the break in, following the instructions from the link in the first post. Problem is that some of the advanced picture settings are greyed out.
> 
> 
> From what I've read, you need an HD connection to change them; I currently don't have one.
> 
> 
> Does it matter if I leave Color Matrix: SD and Black Level: dark? I'm guessing not, but all this is new to me so I want to be as cautious as possible.



Just make sure the slides, or whatever content you use, take up the entire screen and you'll be alright.


----------



## dvrmstrng

As per a post earlier in this thread: Only 10% of your first 1000 hours on a plasma should be gaming. Does a game such as call of duty count as this type of gaming. Each menu has a different structure, a game only lasts 5 minutes (HUD) and then its back to a menu. I don't know if i can commit to 10% when black ops and my TV may be arriving on the same day.


----------



## Johnny Neat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvrmstrng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As per a post earlier in this thread: Only 10% of your first 1000 hours on a plasma should be gaming. Does a game such as call of duty count as this type of gaming. Each menu has a different structure, a game only lasts 5 minutes (HUD) and then its back to a menu. I don't know if i can commit to 10% when black ops and my TV may be arriving on the same day.



I'm with you. Got my a 60PK950 and I've gotten 70+ hrs of break in slide time and I'm going to have to okay on one of the other sets for Black-Ops which is sad.


Anyone care to drop some experience on us about this conundrum?


----------



## flyboy320

Haven't had time to read this whole thread so this may have been covered, but instead of flashing different colors on the screen for break-in, why not just keep white since to make white, all the colors are on (red green blue)?


----------



## the_s_rabbit

While running the break-in DVD on my new LG 60PK950, I've noticed that there are distinct horizontal bars faintly visible, especially when the darker colors (solid green, solid red) are on the screen. I'm about 35 hours into the break-in period.


This can't possibly be IR can it? I haven't been watching anything with horizontal lines. Only full screen HD content and the break-in DVD.


I used my crappy iPhone to take some pics. But you can see that the lines are different in each pic. Can't be IR can it? Looks more like picutes of an old 60Hz monitor. Is my supposedly 600Hz refresh rate watered down to 60Hz somehow?


----------



## Johnny Neat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the_s_rabbit* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While running the break-in DVD on my new LG 60PK950, I've noticed that there are distinct horizontal bars faintly visible, especially when the darker colors (solid green, solid red) are on the screen. I'm about 35 hours into the break-in period.
> 
> 
> This can't possibly be IR can it? I haven't been watching anything with horizontal lines. Only full screen HD content and the break-in DVD.
> 
> 
> I used my crappy iPhone to take some pics. But you can see that the lines are different in each pic. Can't be IR can it? Looks more like picutes of an old 60Hz monitor. Is my supposedly 600Hz refresh rate watered down to 60Hz somehow?



That doesn't seem normal as I'm 80+ hours into breaking in time with periodic tv watching and 3 hours gaming (Modern Warfare 2) but I don't have anything like. Scary. I hope someone on here with tech knowhow comes on and assists you. Might be a return, yikes.


----------



## the_s_rabbit

I'm pretty sure it's some sort of electrical issue. When I look at it through the iPhone's camera view, the lines move up the screen. I've moves the cords for the source inputs as far from the TV's power cord as I can. I also moved the power strip away from the TV and components, and plugged it into a different outlet, further away. None of it seems to help. It happens on all inputs too.


----------



## sigmaace01

Does IR get better over time? I've put about 50 hours in so far on a PN50C8000, and sporting events keep leaving IR. It goes away, but it is kind of annoying.


----------



## Krizna

I thought that burn-in was mostly a thing from the past, but I'm afraid that I have burn-in with my 2,5 years old Pioneer Kuro plasma (PDP-LX5090). I've always been careful: the screen was ISF calibrated after 200 hours of break-in, the screen has always been on movie mode, the orbiter has always been on, and I'm just an average viewer (so I don't particularly watch the same channel for hours and hours, and I also watch blu-rays). But a few days ago I discovered a tv channel logo etched in my screen, visible during bright scenes. I've tried the white wash option for about 8 hours now, but I don't think I see any change - yet.


My question is: should I not lose hope and continue to use the white wash option up to 50 hours?


And if it is in fact burn-in: Is it normal for a top notch plasma screen to suffer from burn-in even tho the owner has regular tv viewing habits and all precautions have been taken?


----------



## Couchy

I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently from reading this thread.


I've had my tv for a few months now, watch a lot of football saturday, sunday and monday night. I do not see any IR, and I'm curious how some people seem to have IR so easily?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the_s_rabbit* /forum/post/19445251
> 
> 
> While running the break-in DVD on my new LG 60PK950, I've noticed that there are distinct horizontal bars faintly visible, especially when the darker colors (solid green, solid red) are on the screen. I'm about 35 hours into the break-in period.
> 
> 
> This can't possibly be IR can it? I haven't been watching anything with horizontal lines. Only full screen HD content and the break-in DVD.
> 
> 
> I used my crappy iPhone to take some pics. But you can see that the lines are different in each pic. Can't be IR can it? Looks more like picutes of an old 60Hz monitor. Is my supposedly 600Hz refresh rate watered down to 60Hz somehow?



I would guess the effect you are seeing is due to anti-glare coating/paneling, shouldn't be noticeable during regular viewing.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Couchy* /forum/post/19464406
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently from reading this thread.
> 
> 
> I've had my tv for a few months now, watch a lot of football saturday, sunday and monday night. I do not see any IR, and I'm curious how some people seem to have IR so easily?



It is not always easy to see, whether or not you notice it will often depend on the content you are viewing at the time. I have only noticed IR from gaming or from "black bars", never any from logos or sporting events.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sigmaace01* /forum/post/19450892
> 
> 
> Does IR get better over time? I've put about 50 hours in so far on a PN50C8000, and sporting events keep leaving IR. It goes away, but it is kind of annoying.



IR still happens but it goes away much easier and quickly as the panel ages.


----------



## j-justice

Greetings,

I've been a happy owner of a PN50B550 since January '10. I broke in the screen, calibrated via blu-ray disc and have been religious about taking care of it.


I recently had a housesitter and forgot to mention that they should not watch too much SD content. Now it appears as though they watched about 4 hours of 4:3 SD content and I have bands down both sides.


I ran the scroller for about 90 minutes and a loop of HD video for another 90 minutes and can still see a faint difference in the pixel brightness.


I've read about turning on the side bars to white while there is no signal to compensate:


"If the burn-in is the result of black bar usage, you can sometimes reduce it by reversing the image of the screen. For example, let's say that you have the middle of the screen burned in because you used black bars when watching 4:3 content. Just put up the light grey bars or white bars for the side and don't display anything in the middle. How? Just unplug your STB from the unit when in 4:3 mode. The time it takes to "erase" the effects of burn-in will be in direct proportion to the amount of time that was spent watching 4:3 content with the black bars."


Does anyone have any experience doing this with a Samsung?


The problem I am having is that when there is no signal, the "no signal" graphic and the input indicator graphic stay on the screen. I don't want to leave these on for any length of time. Does anyone know how to turn them off?


Any other ideas?


I've learned my lesson with having people operate my A/V gear! Damn!


----------



## gmal2003

So can I do a combination of normal TV watching/blu ray watching/ video games while using the break in images when not using the TV (which will be approx 17 hrs a day) or do I have to break it in without any other TV use?


----------



## xrox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j-justice* /forum/post/19473126
> 
> 
> I have bands down both sides.
> 
> 
> I ran the scroller for about 90 minutes and a loop of HD video for another 90 minutes and can still see a faint difference in the pixel brightness.Any other ideas?



If I understand your circumstances correctly then there is no possibility of permanent damage. It may take a while but the lighter side bars will dissipate with full screen usage.


----------



## Kurtangletn

Ok I'm almost considering returning my pn50c680g5f 3D Plasma after reading Samsung's official site. I really don't want to, since it seems to be the only good 3D in our price range. Not to mention the color depth compared to just about all the LCDs and many of the LEDs.


I've had the TV on lower brightness and contrast since owning it for about about a week, I game quite a bit, and I've noticed ghosting (or is it IR?) that seems to go away pretty damn quickly, so I never thought it was an issue as mentioned here and other places for the most part. However the TV does seem to ghost extremely easy.


However I read Samsung's official website and they almost wrote as if that will eventually ruin your picture.. and the most disturbing of all was that it suggested you limit games, and channels like ESPN and other stock ticker channels to under 5% of total viewing.. are you kidding me?


I'm a pretty hardcore gamer, so I'm going to be playing 20-30 hours a week, which means I'm supposed to limit (assuming my TV is on 24/7 all week) to 8.5 hours a week!?


Can anyone reassure me? I mean this seems like owning a really nice car that you can't drive, and I'm having a hard time believing it for the most part.


----------



## Kashanova

Question what is one to do for watching movies that have a 2:35:1 aspect ratio?


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kashanova* /forum/post/19486089
> 
> 
> Question what is one to do for watching movies that have a 2:35:1 aspect ratio?



It has not been a problem for me so far, but I'm keeping an eye out for it. I bought my Kuro in mid-july and over the last 12 weeks or so I guesstimate I've watched 5 letterboxed movies per week. I don't have cable tv and my rabbit ears antena only pick-up 2 local hd signals so I only log about 5 hours of tv per week. I know, I know... rabbit ears on an Elite Kuro.. tres chic.










As far as movies are concerned, I've been trying to maintain a letterbox-to-fullscreen ratio of 1:1. 1.78:1 movies are rare but I compensate by renting tv series on dvd. On my set 1.85:1 movies displayed in "full" mode fill the whole screen and in "dot-by-dot" the black bars are less than an inch thick so the orbiter takes care of working all the pixels more or less evenly.

*What you realy don't want to do is watch multiple letterboxed movies in a row. And always enable the pixel orbiter.* Black bars aren't an IR or burn-in risk per-se but they will cause uneven pixel wear over time. Thats why you want to keep the orbiter enabled. It will prevent any sharp delineation in brightness of your panel. If you ever notice the top and bottom of your screen are a little brighter than its center: *don't panic*. Just watch full screen content exclusively until your panel evens itself out. The rate of wear for phosphors decreases over time. That means the least worn(brighter) parts of the screen will wear faster than the rest and the panel will naturaly tend to even itself out. Or so I've been told... I'm on my first plasma and like I said; I've had no problems so far.


Bottom line is at least 40% of my viewing has been letterboxed movies for 3 straight mounths now and still no sign of uneven wear. I did however break-in my set for 150+ hours before ever using it to view actual content.


----------



## Kashanova




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioVideoPhilia* /forum/post/19486986
> 
> 
> It has not been a problem for me so far, but I'm keeping an eye out for it. I bought my Kuro in mid-july and over the last 12 weeks or so I guesstimate I've watched 5 letterboxed movies per week. I don't have cable tv and my rabbit ears antena only pick-up 2 local hd signals so I only log about 5 hours of tv per week. I know, I know... rabbit ears on an Elite Kuro.. tres chic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as movies are concerned, I've been trying to maintain a letterbox-to-fullscreen ratio of 1:1. 1.78:1 movies are rare but I compensate by renting tv series on dvd. On my set 1.85:1 movies displayed in "full" mode fill the whole screen and in "dot-by-dot" the black bars are less than an inch thick so the orbiter takes care of working all the pixels more or less evenly.
> 
> *What you realy don't want to do is watch multiple letterboxed movies in a row. And always enable the pixel orbiter.* Black bars aren't an IR or burn-in risk per-se but they will cause uneven pixel wear over time. Thats why you want to keep the orbiter enabled. It will prevent any sharp delineation in brightness of your panel. If you ever notice the top and bottom of your screen are a little brighter than its center: *don't panic*. Just watch full screen content exclusively until your panel evens itself out. The rate of wear for phosphors decreases over time. That means the least worn(brighter) parts of the screen will wear faster than the rest and the panel will naturaly tend to even itself out. Or so I've been told... I'm on my first plasma and like I said; I've had no problems so far.
> 
> *Bottom line is at least 40% of my viewing has been letterboxed movies for 3 straight mounths now and still no sign of uneven wear. I did however break-in my set for 150+ hours before ever using it to view actual content*.



thats a relief, I'll need to buy one of those break in dvds but i plan to watch alot of my movies via the pc since i don't have a bluray player but do have a bluray disc player in my pc.


----------



## the_s_rabbit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kashanova* /forum/post/19488084
> 
> 
> thats a relief, I'll need to buy one of those break in dvds but i plan to watch alot of my movies via the pc since i don't have a bluray player but do have a bluray disc player in my pc.



If the TV has a USB input you could maybe download the individual slides used on the break-in DVD and then run it as a slideshow from a thumb drive or external HDD. I have an HD Media Player that allows me to play an .iso image as if it were an actual DVD, so I just used that instead of a DVD player.


----------



## dsaikali

And I need someone to help me out *please*!


After much debate and research i decided to purchase my first flat screen last night. I ended up buying the Panny G20 50" plasma from Best Buy. I came on here to take a look at something called calibration (i didnt know what it was till a few hours ago.) I then saw everyone talking about a break-in.


Can someone break it down for an idiot like me?







I have a ps3 and a panny blu-ray player. Where do I start? What do I do? I know there are some slides or something i have to download but I dont know where to start or where to get them or anything at all!


Do I burn it to a Dvd-R and play it on my ps3? Or how do I go about it?


Also is it ok to watch a football game on sunday between the break-in or is that too risky?


Any help would REALLY be appreciated. I just dont want to mess it up and I'd like to get the most out of my set as possible. Thanks everyone!!!


----------



## sigmaace01

I've got some annoying IR/BI from yesterdays college football on ESPN & ABC. The damn score area (not the ticker) has left lines. The set is about 18 days old with about 180-200 hours use. I'm really reconsidering this plasma idea.


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sigmaace01* /forum/post/19523147
> 
> 
> I've got some annoying IR/BI from yesterdays college football on ESPN & ABC. The damn score area (not the ticker) has left lines. The set is about 18 days old with about 180-200 hours use. I'm really reconsidering this plasma idea.



You should lower contrast level for the first few hundred hours of your set. 200 hours is still pretty green for plasma panel. If you're using one of the torch mode presets like _vibrant_ then IR is bound to happen. Good news is it should clear itself after a while. You could try running the screen-wipe routine and see if it helps. Also lower contrast level until you hit ±500 hours of tv/movies/games to be safe. You could speed this process up by running the break-in slides found in this forums.


----------



## sigmaace01

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AudioVideoPhilia* 
You should lower contrast level for the first few hundred hours of your set. 200 hours is still pretty green for plasma panel. If you're using one of the torch mode presets like _vibrant_ then IR is bound to happen. Good news is it should clear itself after a while. You could try running the screen-wipe routine and see if it helps. Also lower contrast level until you hit ±500 hours of tv/movies/games to be safe. You could speed this process up by running the break-in slides found in this forums.
I use some lower settings...I hate torch mode.


I spoke too soon. I ran the scrolling bars and break-in slides (which I use when not watching)...it's ok, now.


----------



## Terakon

I am writing this post to in hopes that some of the more experienced plasma owners out there can help assuage my fears and also provide some advice potentially.


I purchased and installed a Panasonic TC-PVT20/25 on 11/1/10 and have been absolutely thrilled with the picture quality. I did NOT have it professionally calibrated, but I did do some research and adjusted my picture settings to some of those I found posted within these forums and CNET. I am work so do not have exact details. However, I know that I run the TV in THX mode with some adjustments.


So that being said I was totally thrilled with the Pandora app found on the TV. I have used Pandora at work and on my phone, but enjoy the functionality of having it on the TV. It is convenient to connect to my stereo system. Also the ability to skip songs or thumb up/down from across the room was awesome.


I was aware that you needed to be careful of static images on all plasmas and was initially not even going to use Pandora. However, I had it on screen for a couple of minutes when I noticed it went to a rotating image. I thought, "problem solved", there will be no BI/IR with a rotating image like that. That being said I used it for several hours while I cleaned and cooked in preparation for some company and later that evening discovered some of the images from Pandora were BI/IR. Specifically the title of the station is on the top right, the thumb up/down are along the right side, and the large menu bar crosses the screen towards the bottom.


I have used the TV's anti-image retention wipe multiple times and it does seem to have improved. For example I cannot see the thumb up/down anymore, but I can still see the station name and the menu on some screens. It should be noted that I cannot see these at all during any normal viewing. Specifically I can only see them when a static image is present and light colored, for example the Viera Cast menu, or the Pandora sign in menu.


So some of my specific questions would be...


1) Is there any hope of these images going away?

2) Will running the break-in DVD's I have been reading about help with this issue?

3) Will I always have to be hyper-paranoid about what I watch?


The screensaver lulled me into a false sense of security. I really didn't think that BI/IR could happen that rapidly. So now I am terrified of watching football/ESPN/playing games, etc.


Any help would be appreciated.


Also, does any other TC-PVT20/25 owner experience the same issue with Pandora?


Thanks


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> 1) Is there any hope of these images going away?
> 
> 2) Will running the break-in DVD's I have been reading about help with this issue?
> 
> 3) Will I always have to be hyper-paranoid about what I watch?



1. More than likely the retained images will go away. New plasmas are very susceptible to IR and it takes longer for IR to go away making it all the more noticeable.


2. Running the break-in DVD can be used as a safe "wash". Run the slides with a maxed Contrast setting. You should notice the retained images lighten after doing this. Be patient however, it may take a week or two to completely remove IR depending on the situation.


3. Doesn't hurt to be hyper paranoid while the plasma is new. This will not be the case over time as the plasma will be more resistant to IR as it ages and when it does occur it will go away more quickly. The key is to be aware that IR does happen and to mix up your viewing content. I game, watch sports, and anamorphic content without issue for the most part since I don't overdo any of them. I just mix things up and since I've had my VT25 since June, IR goes away pretty easily now.


----------



## Iguana Man

I'd like to ask a general question regarding IR & burn-in if I may.


Do the lower end to mid-level plasma lines have more of a chance of IR & burn-in than the higher end lines even if you correctly break in your plasma and be careful by mixing up what you watch/play?


----------



## rdellar17

[This is cross posted but I thought it might help someone here]


I had some really bad IR when our plasma was brand new from my son watching Sesame Street. It was the first thing we watched on the new TV... And he watched a couple hours of them. (They put "ei" on the upper right in black surrounded by a white circle.)


What fixed mine was putting the 120 Break in slides on a USB thumb drive and playing them overnight. (By morning it was mostly gone. After a few days it was completely gone. I watched normal TV during the day and ran the breakin slides at night.)


I later realized that I was using a setting that had pixel shift disabled... And that I would have been better off running 100 hrs of break in slides before watching stuff with very contrasty logos. After 100+ hours of break in slides and 100+ hours of normal TV viewing the IR is way better on Sesame Street. (Probably gone in 5-10 mins.)



I downloaded the breakin slides from here and put them on a USB thumb drive.
http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php 


(Note that my TV was a Samsung PN50C8000)


----------



## TweakGames

Hello all. I just got a 46 inch g25 from the store and have been using it for 2 days. We got a 10% discount because it was the floor model, and the guy "said" he has had it for 2 weeks.


At the store it was running a loop of full screen, and widescreen (with black bars on the top and bottom). I thought great, I won't have to wear it in for 4 days. After I got it home I installed it in our spare room, downloaded the 120 slide show, and have had it running that for a while now. I took one break to watch an hd movie with my girlfriend before bed.


My problem is, when I do the slide show, I can pretty easily see a brighter color on the top and bottom of the TV where the black bars normally. Like so,











I don't know if I should just continue to do the slideshow for a couple more days, or if at this point it is going to be permanent. What do you guys think? Should I wait for them to get re-stocked, return it, and get a new one after I get my pay check?


Thanks


P.S. Other than the brighter bar area, I really enjoy the TV.


----------



## jan2206

hey guys i'm really new to this burn in procedure and am trying to learn through research. i bought a LG 42PJ350 42" 720p plasma today and want to do the burn in procedure. I have lowered the contrast and brightness to about 36 (am i overdoing it?) and i dont leave the same channel on for more than an hour. am i doing fine so far? i want to try the burn in procedure so i downloaded the pictures from webapalooza.com/plasma but what do i do now? i kno i have to tranfser the images as a slideshow and each image shud stay for 10 secs each but how long do i let the slideshow keep going per day?


1 more question - bcuz i watch alot of sports, would zooming in enough so that the scores and ticker dont show help for the burn-in procedure?


i know its alot of questions.. i hope someone can help me, thanks alot


----------



## rdellar17

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jan2206* 
hey guys i'm really new to this burn in procedure and am trying to learn through research. i bought a LG 42PJ350 42" 720p plasma today and want to do the burn in procedure. I have lowered the contrast and brightness to about 36 (am i overdoing it?) and i dont leave the same channel on for more than an hour. am i doing fine so far? i want to try the burn in procedure so i downloaded the pictures from webapalooza.com/plasma but what do i do now? i kno i have to tranfser the images as a slideshow and each image shud stay for 10 secs each but how long do i let the slideshow keep going per day?


1 more question - bcuz i watch alot of sports, would zooming in enough so that the scores and ticker dont show help for the burn-in procedure?


i know its alot of questions.. i hope someone can help me, thanks alot
I took a quick look at the 42PJ350 manual. On pg 58 it says if you pick a folder on a USB memory drive and select Slideshow that it will play thru all the pictures. (Might just put 2-3 pictures in a folder first and make sure it never stops repeating. It is important that it repeats / starts over after the last picture and never stops. Then go with all 120 if it repeats continuously.)


As for the duration, it looks like the TV has some presets for "Slide Speed". I'd just go with the one that is closest to 10 seconds. (I don't think it matters much though. You would just get thru them faster at a faster speed.)


I don't think it matters much on brightness/contrast. I brought mine down a bit just for normal viewing. (It only really matters if something is statically on the screen.)


I enjoyed the TV normally during the day.







And ran the slides overnight each night till I got to 100 hours total.


(I didn't do any special stretching, limit my watching, etc. I just checked at the end of the day if there was any IR... If I saw some IR at night then the breakin slides would normally take care of it by morning. If I still saw IR in the morning, which I never did, I might have changed my habits a bit. Also I left the burn in prevention stuff on.)


If you read thru this thread you'll see that it's 50/50 on if this burn in process is even necessary. But I figured it wouldn't hurt anything, as long as the slides never stopped, so I did it anyway.


(Btw. My TV is a PN50C8000, but it should be similar for all plasmas.)


----------



## Orakulo

What should I consider about the PN50C7000?


----------



## jan2206

@rdellar17 - Dang you left ur tv on that long?? isnt that bad to watch it normally (7-8 hours?) and then still leave it on the whole overnight? couldnt it fry or something?


also so u think that i dont have to leave the contrast and brightness that low (38)? bcuz its pretty dark but i mean i will live with it for now if it will be better for future once i raise it to normal.


1 more thing - they say that u definitly shouldnt play video games within the 100 hours except i've played it about twice except its was no more than hour each time, should that be fine?


----------



## rdellar17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19555788
> 
> 
> @rdellar17 - Dang you left ur tv on that long?? isnt that bad to watch it normally (7-8 hours?) and then still leave it on the whole overnight? couldnt it fry or something?
> 
> 
> also so u think that i dont have to leave the contrast and brightness that low (38)? bcuz its pretty dark but i mean i will live with it for now if it will be better for future once i raise it to normal.
> 
> 
> 1 more thing - they say that u definitly shouldnt play video games within the 100 hours except i've played it about twice except its was no more than hour each time, should that be fine?



Leaving it on for 12-15 hrs per day didn't hurt mine... We probably only watch 4-5 hrs of TV during the day so it had quite a rest period. (Also every so often one of the slides is full black which they claim "rests" the screen. I think one of the days I left it on for 24+ hours. Just think about the TVs in Best Buy, etc that are on 12+ hours each and every day...)


I put my contrast / brightness at normal levels for watching TV. Which was significantly less than the defaults for my Samsung. (You might look at the page where you download the slides they might talk about brightness / contrast. I know they talk about it in this thread.)


I played video games all the time while I was breaking it in at night. None of them had a fixed HUD though... (I'd just check it on a dark screen at night and see if you have any IR and compare in the morning.)


Most likely you aren't going to be able to "hurt" the TV unless you leave a fixed image on it for a long time and disable the burn-in prevention... The supposed purpose of the burn-in is to make it so the entire screen ages evenly and that IR goes away quicker... IR goes away quickly for me now, no idea on the aging thing guess I'll know in 10 years.


----------



## punchdrunkjay

Finally got my Panny TCP54S2 set up. Watched "Tears Of The Sun", black bars top and bottom I might add. Then 1.5 hours of COD, 10 minutes of slides another 1.5 hours of COD and no IR at all. Settings are 50 and 50 for contrast and brightness. I am so glad I went plasma over LCD/LED this time.


Don't know how comfortable I am leaving my TV on overnight with slides running so I will probably forego that adventure and just run it when I'm around.


----------



## AudioVideoPhilia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19555788
> 
> 
> @rdellar17 - Dang you left ur tv on that long?? isnt that bad to watch it normally (7-8 hours?) and then still leave it on the whole overnight? couldnt it fry or something?



The first thing I did with my pio was run the break-in slides non-stop for a whole week. Its doing fine.


----------



## Stansellnater

I just recently bought a Samsung PN50C550 and am loving it so far. I have a question about the break-in that I hope hasn't been asked yet, I've hunted and haven't seen it asked so far.


I have an Xbox 360 and if you have music stored on the HDD, while you are listening to music you can turn on full screen visualizations, which randomly displays different colors and shapes (much like whats on Windows Media Player)


My question is would this be just as good as using the break-in DVD/picture slideshow? The images are constantly moving and using different colors.


Thanks for any replies.


----------



## jan2206




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rdellar17* /forum/post/19556158
> 
> 
> Leaving it on for 12-15 hrs per day didn't hurt mine... We probably only watch 4-5 hrs of TV during the day so it had quite a rest period. (Also every so often one of the slides is full black which they claim "rests" the screen. I think one of the days I left it on for 24+ hours. Just think about the TVs in Best Buy, etc that are on 12+ hours each and every day...)
> 
> 
> I put my contrast / brightness at normal levels for watching TV. Which was significantly less than the defaults for my Samsung. (You might look at the page where you download the slides they might talk about brightness / contrast. I know they talk about it in this thread.)
> 
> 
> I played video games all the time while I was breaking it in at night. None of them had a fixed HUD though... (I'd just check it on a dark screen at night and see if you have any IR and compare in the morning.)
> 
> 
> Most likely you aren't going to be able to "hurt" the TV unless you leave a fixed image on it for a long time and disable the burn-in prevention... The supposed purpose of the burn-in is to make it so the entire screen ages evenly and that IR goes away quicker... IR goes away quickly for me now, no idea on the aging thing guess I'll know in 10 years.



I really appreciate the big help man. The only question i have left now is that i read in this page that you should put the contrast 100 when running the slides, should you?


And by burn-in prevention on your tv, do you mean the pixel orbiter? Because that's basically the only burn in prevention i see on my LG tv, does yours have other things?


----------



## arkinon

I'll be getting a new plasma (Panasonic P42U2) soon and was just wondering a couple things about the break in period.


I'm planning to set up the TV as I do my 37" LCD right now, which is to be connected to my pc as a secondary monitor for viewing videos, as well as to the PS3 for games/movies. Could I just play a video file I have on my computer that fills up the entire screen and keep it on loop for a few hours every night during the break in period? I would guess it would be better to play a different file every night so the same colors aren't displayed for hours on end during the break in period.


What would be the best kind of video for this? Muted colors (like Drama-ish shows/movies)? bright/popping colors (cartoons, CG material)?


Also, could I watch pillared SD material in between (no HD service from my box) for maybe 2-3 hours at a time, as long as I turn the black borders to gray? Or would this hurt the break in period? I'm guessing the same would be true of letterboxed movies such as I'm watching on my LCD now on bluray, though I've read for some reason letterboxed content doesn't affect burn in due to the pixels/phosphors not being ignited or something...


edit: I run Windows7 with a theme that automatically rotates through several different wallpapers every xx minutes. Would this be just as effective for burning in as any other method?


----------



## uscpsycho

This thread is frustrating to read. I thought IR/BI were a thing of the past.


My Samsung PN63C8000 is being delivered this week and I'll be breaking it in for 100 hours as recommended here but I have some questions.


Some people advise breaking in on a torch setting and others advise against this due to unnecessary wear that this causes. Does it really matter how high you have the TV dialed in during break in?


I know of three slide collections, one with 20 slides, one with 70 slides and one with 120 slides. I assume the 120 slide collection will break the TV in most effectively?


Is there any harm in running the set 24/7 for four days to break it in? If so what is the longest stretch at a time I should run the break in slides? I'd like to get the break in out of the way as quickly as possible.


----------



## Dayton

Running the slides or break-in DVD under torch mode is a good way to remove IR. But torch mode isn't necessary when just doing the break-in. I think the DVD is easier than the slides, sort of does everything for you. You can let it run 24/7 as long as you check on it from time to time but why not enjoy the TV a bit and watch some content besides the slides?


FYI, the plasma will be "breaking-in" for some time so getting to 100 hours doesn't mean your done worrying about IR.


----------



## uscpsycho




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19563125
> 
> 
> Running the slides or break-in DVD under torch mode is a good way to remove IR. But torch mode isn't necessary when just doing the break-in. I think the DVD is easier than the slides, sort of does everything for you. You can let it run 24/7 as long as you check on it from time to time but why not enjoy the TV a bit and watch some content besides the slides?
> 
> 
> FYI, the plasma will be "breaking-in" for some time so getting to 100 hours doesn't mean your done worrying about IR.



What do you mean by the DVD "does everything for you?" I thought it was the same thing but the slides' advantage is that they allow you to run off a thumb drive making it easier (than having to burn a DVD) and putting less wear on your DVD player.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscpsycho* /forum/post/19563511
> 
> 
> What do you mean by the DVD "does everything for you?" I thought it was the same thing but the slides' advantage is that they allow you to run off a thumb drive making it easier (than having to burn a DVD) and putting less wear on your DVD player.



DVD auto-plays, loops, times the slides, just a matter of starting the DVD and making sure the slides are being displayed edge-to-edge. Total no brainer, why I consider it easier.


----------



## c6r gt2

I have a Samsung PN58C6500 series. I have never owned an flat panel before.


I was not aware that it needed to be broken in, or there was such a process. I was not aware that it was probably on torch mode (it says "Dynamic") when it came (or whatever default factory setting there is). I am ignorant.


Regrettably I played a video game that has a fixed logo. That logo is now burned into the screen. Not horribly, just basically the circle. On a black screen it can be detected and on a white screen too. Additionally the side bars in normal (non-hdtv) more are burned in.


I literally bought this flat panel3 months ago and I normally take good care of my things (computer, cars, clothes etc.)


Screen burn protection was on....I think.


I tried running the "scrolling" greys and also the t.v. noise, but to no avail.


Please help me start over by fixing this problem and breaking it in properly.


----------



## deadnbrkn84

Quick question, I have a Panasonic TC-P65VT25 and I love it. I've got about 260 hours on it, broken in with the contrast lower then turned it up a bit when I hit 250hrs. I recently got a PS3 and have played 7hrs of battlefield 2 bad company on it. I was diligent about whenever I was done playing I would run the screen wipe and watch a little full screen tv. I noticed that I now have the ammo counter burnt into the bottom right corner of my tv. Needless to say I'm less then pleased that a tv this expensive has this. My questions are this:


1. I've been running the break in slides for a few hours for the last two nights to try and get rid of this. Reading this thread it looks like I should be doing this with the contrast up right? I haven't done this yet I just left it at the dnice settings of 66 contrast on THX mode.


2. What are my chances this will fade away? I'm a little pissed right now to say the least. This was a very expensive tv.


3. Lastly with the pixel orbiter should I leave this on automatic (which it has been at it's whole life) from now on or one of the preset settings. Furthermore what should I have the pixel orbiter on while running the slides?


Thanks SOOO much for any help. I really really appreciate it.


----------



## Dayton

1. To remove IR it does go quicker if you run the break-in slides in a torch or maxed Contrast mode.


2. After doing the above, you should see the IR lighten but depending on the situation it can take a couple of weeks for the IR to completely go away.


3. Automatic is the same as using the highest available time interval for the Pixel Orbiter, which I think is 4 minutes for the VT25.


----------



## rdellar17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19560489
> 
> 
> I really appreciate the big help man. The only question i have left now is that i read in this page that you should put the contrast 100 when running the slides, should you?
> 
> 
> And by burn-in prevention on your tv, do you mean the pixel orbiter? Because that's basically the only burn in prevention i see on my LG tv, does yours have other things?



I didn't put my contrast at 100... I put it at normal viewing levels so I could watch TV during the day with no changes to any settings.


The Samsung's have pixel shift... It shifts the image by a couple pixels every X minutes.


My very unscientific opinion is that I really don't think it matters that much how your TV is configured for "break-in"... I think the most important thing is that you get past the 0-100-200 hour life of the TV quickly where IR is most obvious.


----------



## kyle6286

I've read through a large portion of pages in this thread, but can somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. I just bought a 46" Panasonic s2 last week and haven't received it yet. Are you guys suggesting to rip the files provided in the thread to a dvd and play it for 100 hours straight? Am I missing something here? I know everyone says that burn-in these days is pretty much non-existent unless you really don't take care of your tv, but to keep a tv on for 100 straight hours seems very excessive. Excuse my ignorance as I've always had lcd's. This is my first plasma and I want to make sure I take good care of it. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jan2206

nah, you dont leave it on 100 hours straight. You just have to watch tv and do the slides for a total of 100 hours (so basically keep track of how many hours you watch or leave your tv on). and you could or should do more than 100 hours to be more safe


----------



## fairchild99

I ran slides and made sure to not watch any black bar content (4:3 bars or letterbox bars) for the first 100 hours or so. I made sure to always stretch/zoom to make sure the entire TV was being used the whole time.


----------



## kyle6286

Thank you for clearing that up jan and fair child. I got the Panasonic 46" s2 and should be receiving it this week. For this brief 100 hour period, do you suggest not playing video games? I really only play Modern Warfare 2 and will make sure I don't play for hours on end in order to prevent any logos or anything like that from burning in. Hope this is ok.


----------



## deadnbrkn84

I wouldn't play any video games for the first hundred hours... this is when the phosphors are the most sensitive and with things like the HUD you're taking a chance. I would definitely run it with the contrast lower for the first 200 hours then turn it up.


----------



## kyle6286




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deadnbrkn84* /forum/post/19581804
> 
> 
> I wouldn't play any video games for the first hundred hours... this is when the phosphors are the most sensitive and with things like the HUD you're taking a chance. I would definitely run it with the contrast lower for the first 200 hours then turn it up.




Well that sucks. I think I might just put the tv into my spare bedroom for a little while and let the slides run on it to help break it in. I don't think I'd be able to use it as my primary tv initially and not play MW2 until it's fully broken in. It seems like that would take a longgg time. I don't feel comfortable leaving it on for 8 hours every day while I'm at work so I'll probably just let it run at night and when I'm sleeping. I sure hope all of this preparation is worth it







Thanks for the info though.


----------



## jan2206

i played videos games (NBA 2K11 and FIFA 10) in my first 100 hours but i would only play for about 30 mins and once a day so i dont kno..


----------



## MG428

I have finally taken the plunge for a plasma and pulled the trigger to the top-of-the-line Panny VT20. I have been a happy LCD user for a long time and I bought this display as a second set. The reason why I did not buy another LCD is because I wanted to give a try to plasmas, especially because I thougt that the risk of burn-in, which I had associated quite high for plasmas a couple of years ago, is now slim to none, and the likelihood of IR would be quite low as well, provided that appropriate break-in is performed. However it is quite frustrating that a forumite above states that he experienced IR despite proper break-in.


Anyhow, due to above reasons, I am taking this break-in thing quite serious. In this respect I w6uld like to ask 1) whethe playing solely the burn-in DVD in the first 100 hours would be better than playing the DVD and occasionally watching TV in the same time frame; 2) whether exttending this time frame would constitute a "to be on the safe side" situation; and 3) whdther leaving TV on 24/7 with proper contrast and brightmess settings while the break-in DVD is played would cause any harm on the TV? In other words, what's the limit that a plasma can be permeneantly left on? As a side note, harming DVD player does not worry me, because I just bought a crappy player just for break-in.


----------



## russiancarl

How do you know if the break-in DVD is working and will continue to loop? Just started up my new Panasonic and popped in the DVD. Starts off white, came back 5 mins later and its kinda the same color? Is it mega slow or something?


Not sure if DVD will shut off or repeat though. I am scared of leaving it on all night. Is it supposed to play like a normal movie? What I am seeing is the DVD player saying "STILL" and then going onto the next chapter with no movement in the displayed time.


----------



## rockxhero

Yes, I'm a new plasma owner (1st one, it's a Panasonic TCP42S2) & I've been running the break in slides off an SD card since Mon. this week @ 4pm.


Could it be harmful to leave it on during the break in for 100 hrs straight. The tv doesn't feel hot at all. (& I have the blacks:low, Contrast & Brightness @ 50%, "Just" mode & Pixel Orbiter on).


2 questions: 1) Does it matter if the screen's Picture's on: "Standard" or "Picture" during break in?

2) Does it make a difference if the break in slides run for 100 hrs. instead of 120?


Also, does


----------



## MG428

So I did not understand what rockxhero meant in his very first post in avsforum, if his intention was to reply my questions.


Let me guys reiterate my questions:


1) In the first 100 hours, do you recommend playing solely the burn-in DVD instead of combination of playing such DVD and occasionally watching TV in the said time frame? You may say suggest it would not make a big difference, but I am just trying to find out whether there would be ANY difference for the purposes of eliminating permeneant burn-in or lessening possible IRs in future? I am just trying to be on the safe side.


2) I understand that the amount of burn-in period varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as well as people to people. Panny says 100 hours, Samsung says 200 or 250 hours, an avsforum thread I saw says 150 hours. Since my plasma is Panny, should I apply 100 hours or more hours, again, just to be on the safe side?


3) Regardless of your answers to Questions 1&2, i.e. irrespective of what content I watch (solely break-in DVD vs combination of break-in DVD and cable/satellite braodcasts) and of how many hours I apply for break-in (100 hours vs. more hours), would leaving my plasma 24/7 on in order to complete the break-in ASAP cause any harm to my display? If you think so, what is the recommend maximum continuous operation time per day for a plasma display and how many hours should I wait before turning it back on?


----------



## rockxhero

I'm sorry I wasn't attempting to answer your questions, seeing as how I am in the same boat, I was asking them.


You did brin up another good question, how long should a tv be left off after use, or extended use...


----------



## Dayton

1. You don't have to do break-in exclusively for the first 100 hours. You should also take some time to enjoy your new plasma, just be cautious with static, anamorphic, or 4:3 content. I think of the break-in DVD as a way to get hours on the plasma more quickly while also doing even wear on the panel. Some may feel different however.


2. I would say that 300 hours is more accurate than 100 for the break-in period.


3. If you are comfortable with running the slides 24/7 you can but be sure the slides are running correctly before you leave the plasma un-monitored. Keep in mind 100 or so hours is not a magic number, your plasma will be breaking-in for months.


----------



## kyle6286




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19587860
> 
> 
> 1. You don't have to do break-in exclusively for the first 100 hours. You should also take some time to enjoy your new plasma, just be cautious with static, anamorphic, or 4:3 content. I think of the break-in DVD as a way to get hours on the plasma more quickly while also doing even wear on the panel. Some may feel different however.
> 
> 
> 2. I would say that 300 hours is more accurate than 100 for the break-in period.
> 
> 
> 3. If you are comfortable with running the slides 24/7 you can but be sure the slides are running correctly before you leave the plasma un-monitored. Keep in mind 100 or so hours is not a magic number, your plasma will be breaking-in for months.



Sorry, but what do you mean by 4:3? Are you referring to the aspect ratio where the picture doesn't fill the entire screen?


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kyle6286* 
Sorry, but what do you mean by 4:3? Are you referring to the aspect ratio where the picture doesn't fill the entire screen?
Yes, should avoid content that will display black bars or I should instead say use caution. Treat the black bars like a static image.


----------



## Goatse

how many hours of IR is considered burn in? Can you also have a light burn in... like if the IR has decreased but still there over 8 hours of regular TV.


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Goatse* 
how many hours of IR is considered burn in? Can you also have a light burn in... like if the IR has decreased but still there over 8 hours of regular TV.
IR doesn't qualify as burn-in until weeks have passed. Probably why burn-in is considered only a past issue as it takes quite a while for IR to be considered burn-in. I had some nasty IR from Demon's Souls that took two weeks to go away, so persistant IR has to be thought of in terms of days/weeks instead of hours.


----------



## MG428




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19587860
> 
> 
> If you are comfortable with running the slides 24/7 you can but be sure the slides are running correctly before you leave the plasma un-monitored.



In fact I am not sure whether I would feel comfortable or not because I have never left a TV, be it CRT, plasma or LCD, powered on straight for 100 hours. I would like to know whether this would cause any harm on the display.


Do you guys have any idea about this?


PS. I will certainly make sure that the DVD will play in loop, the brightness and contrast be less than 50% (or should it be 50%??), and the content will cover all of the display.


----------



## rockxhero

well I just ran the break in slides (looping) through an SD card w/ my new Panasonic TCP42S2 & it appears to be fine.


I plan on letting it rest a for a while (6 hrs. or so to a day) & then let it run for another 100 hrs. to be extra cautious.


if anyone knows if this is a bad idea or not please let me know otherwise. thankx.


----------



## jan2206

i would never leave a tv on for 100 hours straight... that seems so extreme, i mean come on. the most i have left it on was 12 hours and even with that i felt bad.


and obviously breaking it in for more than 100 hours is to be on the safe side.... it never hurts, the more hours you do, the better


----------



## Classy Tech

I got my mom a 50in Zenith (rebranded LG PJ250) and am going to be taking it back. The IR is awful, and she always falls a sleep watching either a DVD or an on demand channel. She is also bed bound, so the TV is on about 24 hours a day.


I was going to replace it with a Panasonic TC-P50C2, then do about 250 hours of burn in. Question is, after that will I still have to worry about her watching something letterbox for 10 hours, or falling a sleep with a solid image like the on demand channels?


I would just go with LCD, but she likes the larger size since she is pretty far back and has bad eyesite. If problems are going to persist though, Ill go with a smaller LCD.


----------



## rockxhero

The sales man @ Sears told me burn in can occur around 10 hrs. (so maybe not watch letterbox view w/ solid black bars or play a videogame for 10 hrs. straight). He also told me he learned most of what he knows off of CNet.com


----------



## flyboy320




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19591758
> 
> 
> i would never leave a tv on for 100 hours straight... that seems so extreme, i mean come on. the most i have left it on was 12 hours and even with that i felt bad.
> 
> 
> and obviously breaking it in for more than 100 hours is to be on the safe side.... it never hurts, the more hours you do, the better



I let mine run with the slides for about 100hrs straight. Most electronic devices do better when left on all the time, like laptops. When you turn them on and off they warm up and then cool down which is hard on them. It's much less stress on them to just leave them on rather than many on/off cycles.


----------



## Buckeye911

I still don't think the break-in slides are necessary. I have two Panasonic plasmas (42px60 and 50pz800). I broke them in by reducing brightness and contrast for about 100 hours and then I threw caution to the wind. I haven't had any kind of IR problems. Yes it happens but it goes away quickly and is not visible with normal viewing. Just last week I fell asleep watching a streaming movie from Netflix on the 50pz800. The Netflix menu was on the screen for more than three hours, the IR was clearly visible. I watched normal programming for five minutes and checked a blank screen. There was no trace of the IR.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/19592989
> 
> 
> I still don't think the break-in slides are necessary. I have two Panasonic plasmas (42px60 and 50pz800). I broke them in by reducing brightness and contrast for about 100 hours and then I threw caution to the wind. I haven't had any kind of IR problems. Yes it happens but it goes away quickly and is not visible with normal viewing. Just last week I fell asleep watching a streaming movie from Netflix on the 50pz800. The Netflix menu was on the screen for more than three hours, the IR was clearly visible. I watched normal programming for five minutes and checked a blank screen. There was no trace of the IR.



Not necessary but they do help a great deal in getting hours in more quickly. They can also be used to help remove IR safely. I didn't do the 24/7 run of slides, seemed extreme to me. I just ran the slides during moments when I wasn't going to watch TV.


----------



## rockxhero

I know you should Reset all settings to Default before adjusting & calibrating your tv's picture, but does it matter what "color temperature" you tv is i before calibrating?


What temperature should be used, & when should you change your tv to that setting (before or after calibrating)? I am under the impression that "Warm" is the best, or most desirable setting. Is this correct?


----------



## uscpsycho




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19564142
> 
> 
> DVD auto-plays, loops, times the slides, just a matter of starting the DVD and making sure the slides are being displayed edge-to-edge. Total no brainer, why I consider it easier.



There's not an option to make the slides loop from SD?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *russiancarl* /forum/post/19585302
> 
> 
> How do you know if the break-in DVD is working and will continue to loop? Just started up my new Panasonic and popped in the DVD. Starts off white, came back 5 mins later and its kinda the same color? Is it mega slow or something?
> 
> 
> Not sure if DVD will shut off or repeat though. I am scared of leaving it on all night. Is it supposed to play like a normal movie? What I am seeing is the DVD player saying "STILL" and then going onto the next chapter with no movement in the displayed time.



I want to know the same thing. When I watch a movie and it ends, it goes back to the DVD menu. I don't want to leave the house with the DVD running and end up with a static image on my plasma for hours after the DVD plays through once.


Will this DVD autoloop or is there some autoloop option I've never seen on DVD players?


----------



## EldoradoSan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscpsycho* /forum/post/19599807
> 
> 
> Will this DVD autoloop or is there some autoloop option I've never seen on DVD players?



It's called "repeat" and even my Playstation 2 has that option. I've been using it for this very function lately.


----------



## kyle6286




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19588780
> 
> 
> Yes, should avoid content that will display black bars or I should instead say use caution. Treat the black bars like a static image.




Thanks for clarifying that.


----------



## Goatse

No need to have the dvd player on repeat. All the tvs come with color wipe function now, just use that. its better than some random dvd.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19602284
> 
> 
> No need to have the dvd player on repeat. All the tvs come with color wipe function now, just use that. its better than some random dvd.



The built in "wash" can put too much wear on the panel and so should be used sparingly, use of break-in DVD is a safer method.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EldoradoSan* /forum/post/19600490
> 
> 
> It's called "repeat" and even my Playstation 2 has that option. I've been using it for this very function lately.



DVD player uses less power and is quieter, plus the slide timing is better with the DVD.


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19602401
> 
> 
> The built in "wash" can put too much wear on the panel and so should be used sparingly, use of break-in DVD is a safer method.



no the white wash does, not the colorwash. Besides, you're trying to break the tv and wear in the phosphors.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19602445
> 
> 
> no the white wash does, not the colorwash. Besides, you're trying to break the tv and wear in the phosphors.



Sorry didn't see "color", but isn't color wash rare, only an LG thing?


----------



## Goatse

I believe samsung has it too. I'm trying to work the phosphers to break in for least 800 hours so I'm using the white wash often.


----------



## hawk7883

Hello to everyone, I'm new to this site, so please excuse the maybe dumb question. I have a Panny TC-P58VT25, had it for a couple of month's. I did not do any break in. At this point don't see any kind of burn in. Questions, Is there any setting on it where I can see how many hour's I have on it at this point. How many hours should I wait before I have it calibrated. And will I have a noticeable improvement when it's done. Any other information about this Tv that would be helpful is appreciated. Thanks to all


----------



## Goatse

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hawk7883* 
Hello to everyone, I'm new to this site, so please excuse the maybe dumb question. I have a Panny TC-P58VT25, had it for a couple of month's. I did not do any break in. At this point don't see any kind of burn in. Questions, Is there any setting on it where I can see how many hour's I have on it at this point. How many hours should I wait before I have it calibrated. And will I have a noticeable improvement when it's done. Any other information about this Tv that would be helpful is appreciated. Thanks to all








really there is no reason to break in the tv. Just don't watch too much widescreen on sd programming and you'll be okay. Couple month should be plenty to have broken en the phosphers, from what I read in the VT25 reviews the THX mode is almost spot on and calibration wouldn't make a huge difference.


----------



## hawk7883

Thanks, but I really don't watch in THX mode much, looks a little dark to me. And isn't THX mode only for Blu-ray viewing?


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hawk7883* /forum/post/19607498
> 
> 
> Thanks, but I really don't watch in THX mode much, looks a little dark to me. And isn't THX mode only for Blu-ray viewing?



thats what calibration will do. To people that are used to vivid mode, a proper calibration picture will look a little dull.


----------



## rockxhero

800 hrs. seems extreme to me! Most say 100 hrs. is all that is needed. some say none is needed at all anymore. The most I had ever heard before was 500 hrs. The general consensus is 100-200 hrs. I did 200 hrs on my Panny, just to error on the side of caution.


btw is the "scrolling bar" anti-image retention, feature on a Panasonic, the same as this "whitewash" you were speaking about?


----------



## jan2206

dont listen goatse... the break-in slides wont break your tv.. its going to help and better than white wash.. i only use white wash, lets say at halftime of a basketball game, when i dont have alot of time. but using the break in slides overnight is really good


----------



## Goatse

Uhm... i never said its going to break his tv, i said its unnecessary. I'm at 400+ hours, IR hasn't gotten muhc better. I just wasted alot of electricity keeping the tv on at night.s


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19613544
> 
> 
> Uhm... i never said its going to break his tv, i said its unnecessary. I'm at 400+ hours, IR hasn't gotten muhc better. I just wasted alot of electricity keeping the tv on at night.s



IR will continue to happen but removal should be much easier, isn't that the case for you with the hours you have now?


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19616214
> 
> 
> IR will continue to happen but removal should be much easier, isn't that the case for you with the hours you have now?



I'm not sure if it has gotten better, less than an hour of gaming still takes multiple hours for it to go away. Normal viewing its not noticeable but on a single color screen its easy to see.


----------



## therealjustin

I have owned my Panasonic 46U1 for a little over one year and while it has been working perfectly, I have noticed an increase in image retention. The black levels which were not exactly great to begin with are now really gray. I'm happy that I at least have an HDTV but I'm really disappointed with Panasonic.


Image retention is a big problem though and even if something is displayed for a few seconds it retains the image for minutes. My DVR uses a 4:3 program guide(thanks Time Warner







) and the gray bars on either side can clearly be seen when a black screen is displayed, especially the thin lines that separate the two.


----------



## ceeyahd1

I am lost!


I just purchased my new TC-p65S2 and I want to do the burn in, I dowloaded the 120 slides to sd card and I have spent hours reading trying to figure out the TV settings for the burn in using the slide show, I read the brightness should high and I read it should be low.


If I am using the slide show what should the settings on my TV be on if I plan to run for 100-200 hours?


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ceeyahd1* /forum/post/19626140
> 
> 
> I am lost!
> 
> 
> I just purchased my new TC-p65S2 and I want to do the burn in, I dowloaded the 120 slides to sd card and I have spent hours reading trying to figure out the TV settings for the burn in using the slide show, I read the brightness should high and I read it should be low.
> 
> 
> If I am using the slide show what should the settings on my TV be on if I plan to run for 100-200 hours?



no need. Just watch normal tv, don't watch too many black bar movies or shows.


----------



## idividebyzero

Why dont they do this crap at the factory? It would only take them 5 days and it would save on returns and disgruntled customers. The TV looks terrible at 50% contrast and I'll be damned if I dont play games on it for 200 hours.


I'll run the break-in stuff while at work but Im not going to baby it when Im home for more than a couple days.


It makes no sense that they can pre-season $10 cast iron skillets but they cant run some images on a $2000 TV before shipping it out.


----------



## psychobrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Goatse* 
I believe samsung has it too. I'm trying to work the phosphers to break in for least 800 hours so I'm using the white wash often.
Samsung uses a smooth scrolling system that go (from right to left) from completely black to completely white in enough steps that the transition is completely smooth. This works all the pixels out evenly since black is all pixels at minimum power and white is all pixels at maximum power.


I have no idea why the slides would be safer. It seems to me that they would take longer to break the TV in if that's what you're after, but having said that, I'm using three different sets of slides and the scrolling bars to break in the screen since my screen seemed to need it (the screen, although not bad, wasn't completely uniform when viewing a dark single color image such as all black -- the slides and scrolling bars have pretty much solved the problem).


----------



## juliengrenier

Hi,


I have a pretty bad case of IR from watching tv in 4:3 on my samsung pn50c490. I've had the tv for about a month. I have watched plenty of tv in 16:9 but i still got the bars burnt in. I play nhl 11 on my ps3 pretty often and you can really see the shade change on the ice. I need help to get rid of these bars! I ran the scrolling on the tv today for about 2 hours yesterday and about 5 hours today. I havent seen any improvement. Should i run it longer? how to i get rid of this?


----------



## kris achar

_Very useful & informative thread...


Thanks & Love,

kris._


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juliengrenier* /forum/post/19634016
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I have a pretty bad case of IR from watching tv in 4:3 on my samsung pn50c490. I've had the tv for about a month. I have watched plenty of tv in 16:9 but i still got the bars burnt in. I play nhl 11 on my ps3 pretty often and you can really see the shade change on the ice. I need help to get rid of these bars! I ran the scrolling on the tv today for about 2 hours yesterday and about 5 hours today. I havent seen any improvement. Should i run it longer? how to i get rid of this?



Make sure to take advantage of the TV's 4:3 grey bars going forward. Try running the break-in slides overnight with the Contrast maxed or in a Vivid/Dynamic mode. Do this for a few nights and hopefully the retained image should lessen in intensity. Be patient, it may take a while for it to completely go away.


----------



## evildede

I have just changed my projector's lamp for the time being while I am looking for a new TV, and I was recently leaning towards a Panny TV considering the positive talk about it. However, I am still worried about Burn In considering a close friend of mine has a burn in on his 2008 Panny from playing Mass Effect too much.


I was planning on getting the 65 inches 3D Panny and I'd use it for both movies and gaming, and probably connect the computer to it. Should I be worried at all about Image Retention and Burn In? It worries me a lot and I am almost leaning towards buying one of those 60 inches LEDs instead simply because of that. I'd like to know if I should still consider a plasma from someone who's been using it similarly to what I am gonna do with mine.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *evildede* /forum/post/19641980
> 
> 
> I have just changed my projector's lamp for the time being while I am looking for a new TV, and I was recently leaning towards a Panny TV considering the positive talk about it. However, I am still worried about Burn In considering a close friend of mine has a burn in on his 2008 Panny from playing Mass Effect too much.
> 
> 
> I was planning on getting the 65 inches 3D Panny and I'd use it for both movies and gaming, and probably connect the computer to it. Should I be worried at all about Image Retention and Burn In? It worries me a lot and I am almost leaning towards buying one of those 60 inches LEDs instead simply because of that. I'd like to know if I should still consider a plasma from someone who's been using it similarly to what I am gonna do with mine.



LCD/LED definitely offers peace of mind when it comes to gaming and use as a PC monitor. If you aren't bothered by LCD/LED's inconsistent backlight then go for LCD/LED. If it bugs the living hell out of you like it does me then plasma can work as long as you are aware that IR is an issue and treat it accordingly.


----------



## juliengrenier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19640123
> 
> 
> Make sure to take advantage of the TV's 4:3 grey bars going forward. Try running the break-in slides overnight with the Contrast maxed or in a Vivid/Dynamic mode. Do this for a few nights and hopefully the retained image should lessen in intensity. Be patient, it may take a while for it to completely go away.



Thanks alot for the help. Where do I get the break in slides?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *juliengrenier* /forum/post/19643214
> 
> 
> Thanks alot for the help. Where do I get the break in slides?



The image for the DVD can be found here:
http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


The slides can be found here:
http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php


----------



## bioteacher

I feel thoroughly confused after trying to figure out the whole burn in/image retention issue. So please pardon me if this is a redundant question.


I have a new 2 week old Panasonic TCP42c2.


I have watched 2 blu ray DVDs and a fair amount of hours 10-15) of full screen programming (no bars) from netflix


I have my set on cinema mode and have now turned down the contrast as per some recommendations


When I switch to a to an input with no signal I can see a slight faint ghost of the menus from the panasonic and/dvd player welcome screen.


If I run the scrolling bar (anti-image retention) it seems to go away, but I am worried about it being there in the first place


I don't see any of this in normal programming


So my question is... is this normal/am I being obsessively worried about image retention?


----------



## Dayton

It is normal, IR will happen when a static image is displayed. This is especially true of a new plasma. As the plasma ages IR won't be as easy to get and will go away much quicker/easier.


----------



## Iguana Man

I know I should make the time to read all the posts in this thread, and I am trying, but I may not have the time to do so before tomorrow. Nephew's getting a Samsung PN50C450 (720p plasma) delivered tomorrow morning.


The TV has a usb port which I believe can be used to run the break-in images in a looping fashion. Problem is, it appears there are several break-in links and several formats in which to download them.


If someone would be kind enough to suggest the best link given the following info, I would greatly appreciate it.


720p Plasma with 1368x768 resolution.

Windows operating system for d/l to usb thumbdrive.

Set TV's contrast/brightness high or low when running break-in.

Nephew is a gamer by the way.


Again, my apologies for not getting through each post.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19602922
> 
> 
> I believe samsung has it too. I'm trying to work the phosphers to break in for least 800 hours so I'm using the white wash often.


_Good God,i thought its just 80 to 100 hours of the first break -in period....What is this ?

In that case should one really buy a plasma tv,No doubt iam a PDP fan But what iam reading here is quite alarming.If the manufactures don't do much about this problem then this technology is bound to fail.


Love,

kris._


----------



## Buckeye911

If you can't see IR with normal viewing, why are some people freaking out? I've been enjoying plasmas for six years. If I look for it, I can see IR on a blank screen every day but I have absolutely NEVER seen it during normal viewing. What's the big deal? It's not a problem, it's normal.


----------



## Goatse

cause I have IR OCD. Its gotten much better at 500hours but still it can linger for couple hours. Honestly after the honeymoon phase wore off the PQ on my plasma isn't all that great compared to my old SXRD. Least for me there's more negative than positive about plasmas that I should have gone with a LCD. Like dark whites, line bleed, noisy picture and picture detail. Everytime I look at the Sharp LCD I have here at work, I wonder how much cleaner the picture looks compared to my plasma.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19651773
> 
> 
> cause I have IR OCD. Its gotten much better at 500hours but still it can linger for couple hours. Honestly after the honeymoon phase wore off the PQ on my plasma isn't all that great compared to my old SXRD. Least for me there's more negative than positive about plasmas that I should have gone with a LCD. Like dark whites, line bleed, noisy picture and picture detail. Everytime I look at the Sharp LCD I have here at work, I wonder how much cleaner the picture looks compared to my plasma.



I went for plasma this go around as I got sick of looking at the inconsistent backlight of LCD, all the clouding and flashlighting during dark scenes. That issue is way worse than the occasional IR and line bleed. If LCD's ever provide a consistent backlight then I will go back but I'm not holding my breath as the problem was worse than ever with this year's crop. Also to my eye LCD is still catching up to plasma as far as overall PQ.


----------



## simple man

When I run the first burn-in should I use the calibrated settings or should I use the standard settings? And if I use the standard settings would it look better after the first 100 hours to calibrate the tv? Would the calibration results be more accurate?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Goatse

inconsistent backlight? Long as you have dynamic contrast off the backlight should stay constant.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/19652473
> 
> 
> inconsistent backlight? Long as you have dynamic contrast off the backlight should stay constant.



It is a panel issue, nothing to do with any of the settings. Do a Google Images search for "lcd clouding" and you'll see the issue I'm referring to. It has always been an issue but was pronounced by the move from matte to glossy and is an issue that only seems to be getting worse. This year's crop of craptacular edge lit LED LCD's was the worst I've seen, I could pick up clouding and flashlighting in dark scenes even in bright showrooms.


----------



## Goatse

We have new sharp florescent lit LCDS and it looks fine in the dark. Black levels are equal if not better than my pk950.


----------



## mato

Can you please let me know if it's better to run slides for break in or regular break in DVD. I just purchased panasonic vt25 TV and I was wondering while program/files are best for break in


tia


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mato* /forum/post/19657854
> 
> 
> Can you please let me know if it's better to run slides for break in or regular break in DVD. I just purchased panasonic vt25 TV and I was wondering while program/files are best for break in
> 
> 
> tia



Doesn't matter, go with what is most convenient.


----------



## CruisinG35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mato* /forum/post/19657854
> 
> 
> Can you please let me know if it's better to run slides for break in or regular break in DVD. I just purchased panasonic vt25 TV and I was wondering while program/files are best for break in
> 
> 
> tia



Some say it's better to use slides because the dvd puts unnecessary strain on your dvd drive. For that reason I'm going to use the slides on my vt25, which should be here in the next couple hours.


----------



## mato

Are there new slides coming or should I use the one in post #2523 (70 or 120?)


----------



## Officeglen

Are there new slides coming or should I use the one in post #2523 (70 or 120?)


I too have a new VT25, I haven't plugged it in yet. You should (if you haven’t already) check out the The Official 2010 Panasonic Settings thread to break in and calibrate your new set. I'm going to try to do this but I'm not sure if my marriage will survive to first 100 hours.


Back to the burn in issue, I have a Panasonic TH-42PX60U 2006 with bi/ir from (the wife) watching 4:3 content I'm thinking of modifying the slides to add a black box where the 4:3 screen would be and run that for a while.

Any thoughts?


----------



## simple man

Should I calibrate my plasma before or after the 100 hour break-in?


Thanks


----------



## Officeglen

Sorry. Please disregard the links in my previous post and do a search for the The Official 2010 Panasonic Settings thread.


----------



## Semblance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simple man* /forum/post/19664704
> 
> 
> Should I calibrate my plasma before or after the 100 hour break-in?



Calibration comes after the break-in period.


----------



## Phillies

I was about to pull the trigger on my first plasma, a Samsung PN508000 and after reading this thread I'm a little nervous. I watch Fox News Channel alot and it'll be the channel that's on more than anything else. And with the news ticker and static images on that channel, will that cause me any problems after I break in the tv properly? The more I read these forums the most unsure I get.


----------



## Buckeye911

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Phillies* 
I was about to pull the trigger on my first plasma, a Samsung PN508000 and after reading this thread I'm a little nervous. I watch Fox News Channel alot and it'll be the channel that's on more than anything else. And with the news ticker and static images on that channel, will that cause me any problems after I break in the tv properly? The more I read these forums the most unsure I get.








I watch Fox News a lot too, never had a problem with either of my Panasonic plasmas. I've had one for over five years and the other for over two years.


----------



## rlindo

For those that act like IR/burn-in isn't an issue anymore:


Got a new 50" Panny VT20 1.5 weeks ago, broke it in by running the slides for over 150 hours and tonight I decided to watch a bit of the Heat/Knicks basketball game and flipped back and forth between it and other channels. All told, I would have had this game on for a max of 90 minutes and of course there are commercials to break up logos/overlays. So what do I see when I turn the cable box off and am right by the tv? The damn ESPN sports ticker outlined in a nice shade of black and I can see the letters NHL, NBA Friday Night, and the wonderful ESPN logo inside this black outlined box. Tried running the white bar sweep for a while and nada. Tried running full screen content and no change. I am currently running the slides yet again and will see in the morning if anything has changed.


"Well Rob, you must have had your contrast level set too high"


No I did not. THX mode with the contrast in the low 50s and the tv hour counter before watching some of this game was 170.


To go with the above, I have seen a lot of IR too.


Sorry but IR and burn-in are NOT things of the past, at least not with Panasonic. What's sad is I have 2 other plasmas in my house, a 4 yr old LG that was never truly broken in and a 1st gen Kuro, the 4280 which is over 3 years old. The LG gets a lot of IR which takes some time to go away but it has NEVER had any burn-in or as stubborn IR (if I am lucky and the above ESPN drama is just bad IR) as this Panny has. Again, this is a 4 yr old LG vs the supposed current production "champ" of IR/burn-in prevention.


As for my Kuro, that badboy doesn't get IR or burn-in and never did from the start. That Pioneer's technology from over 3 years ago trumps everything to this day is both sad and impressive. I wish they were still producing plasmas because I'd have gladly dished out the cash for a 3d capable Kuro since you get what you pay for with those sets.


Pretty sad that you can't even watch 90 mins of a basketball game (and again, commercials thrown in there) almost 200 hours after break in without an issue on the supposed top plasma in production when you can watch the same stuff on a plasma 3-5 years old and not have this issue. Honestly, what the hell is that? So they are saying people can't use their plasmas for anything other than 1:78:1 movies or shows/channels that don't have any logos? Freaking pathetic. This is 2010 for goodness sake.


The absolute best is if this is indeed burn-in (and it looks like burn-in from my experience with my parents' plasma) I doubt Panasonic will do anything about it because they'll try and blame me. It's as though I would have needed to have had a live feed of the set in action to prove to them I didn't do anything wrong.


----------



## Ronaldo807

I just bought a Samsung PN58C6400 and will be using the 120 break in slides. I needed some help with what my picture settings should be during the first 100 hours or so (please be specific)? I'm extremely new to plasma and break in so any and all help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Buckeye911

Quote:

Originally Posted by *rlindo* 
For those that act like IR/burn-in isn't an issue anymore:


Got a new 50" Panny VT20 1.5 weeks ago, broke it in by running the slides for over 150 hours and tonight I decided to watch a bit of the Heat/Knicks basketball game and flipped back and forth between it and other channels. All told, I would have had this game on for a max of 90 minutes and of course there are commercials to break up logos/overlays. So what do I see when I turn the cable box off and am right by the tv? The damn ESPN sports ticker outlined in a nice shade of black and I can see the letters NHL, NBA Friday Night, and the wonderful ESPN logo inside this black outlined box. Tried running the white bar sweep for a while and nada. Tried running full screen content and no change. I am currently running the slides yet again and will see in the morning if anything has changed.


"Well Rob, you must have had your contrast level set too high"


No I did not. THX mode with the contrast in the low 50s and the tv hour counter before watching some of this game was 170.


To go with the above, I have seen a lot of IR too.


Sorry but IR and burn-in are NOT things of the past, at least not with Panasonic. What's sad is I have 2 other plasmas in my house, a 4 yr old LG that was never truly broken in and a 1st gen Kuro, the 4280 which is over 3 years old. The LG gets a lot of IR which takes some time to go away but it has NEVER had any burn-in or as stubborn IR (if I am lucky and the above ESPN drama is just bad IR) as this Panny has. Again, this is a 4 yr old LG vs the supposed current production "champ" of IR/burn-in prevention.


As for my Kuro, that badboy doesn't get IR or burn-in and never did from the start. That Pioneer's technology from over 3 years ago trumps everything to this day is both sad and impressive. I wish they were still producing plasmas because I'd have gladly dished out the cash for a 3d capable Kuro since you get what you pay for with those sets.


Pretty sad that you can't even watch 90 mins of a basketball game (and again, commercials thrown in there) almost 200 hours after break in without an issue on the supposed top plasma in production when you can watch the same stuff on a plasma 3-5 years old and not have this issue. Honestly, what the hell is that? So they are saying people can't use their plasmas for anything other than 1:78:1 movies or shows/channels that don't have any logos? Freaking pathetic. This is 2010 for goodness sake.


The absolute best is if this is indeed burn-in (and it looks like burn-in from my experience with my parents' plasma) I doubt Panasonic will do anything about it because they'll try and blame me. It's as though I would have needed to have had a live feed of the set in action to prove to them I didn't do anything wrong.
You see IR on a blank screen? If you can't see it on normal programming why is it an issue?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlindo* /forum/post/19667323
> 
> 
> For those that act like IR/burn-in isn't an issue anymore:
> 
> 
> Got a new 50" Panny VT20 1.5 weeks ago, broke it in by running the slides for over 150 hours and tonight I decided to watch a bit of the Heat/Knicks basketball game and flipped back and forth between it and other channels. All told, I would have had this game on for a max of 90 minutes and of course there are commercials to break up logos/overlays. So what do I see when I turn the cable box off and am right by the tv? The damn ESPN sports ticker outlined in a nice shade of black and I can see the letters NHL, NBA Friday Night, and the wonderful ESPN logo inside this black outlined box. Tried running the white bar sweep for a while and nada. Tried running full screen content and no change. I am currently running the slides yet again and will see in the morning if anything has changed.
> 
> 
> "Well Rob, you must have had your contrast level set too high"
> 
> 
> No I did not. THX mode with the contrast in the low 50s and the tv hour counter before watching some of this game was 170.
> 
> 
> To go with the above, I have seen a lot of IR too.
> 
> 
> Sorry but IR and burn-in are NOT things of the past, at least not with Panasonic. What's sad is I have 2 other plasmas in my house, a 4 yr old LG that was never truly broken in and a 1st gen Kuro, the 4280 which is over 3 years old. The LG gets a lot of IR which takes some time to go away but it has NEVER had any burn-in or as stubborn IR (if I am lucky and the above ESPN drama is just bad IR) as this Panny has. Again, this is a 4 yr old LG vs the supposed current production "champ" of IR/burn-in prevention.
> 
> 
> As for my Kuro, that badboy doesn't get IR or burn-in and never did from the start. That Pioneer's technology from over 3 years ago trumps everything to this day is both sad and impressive. I wish they were still producing plasmas because I'd have gladly dished out the cash for a 3d capable Kuro since you get what you pay for with those sets.
> 
> 
> Pretty sad that you can't even watch 90 mins of a basketball game (and again, commercials thrown in there) almost 200 hours after break in without an issue on the supposed top plasma in production when you can watch the same stuff on a plasma 3-5 years old and not have this issue. Honestly, what the hell is that? So they are saying people can't use their plasmas for anything other than 1:78:1 movies or shows/channels that don't have any logos? Freaking pathetic. This is 2010 for goodness sake.
> 
> 
> The absolute best is if this is indeed burn-in (and it looks like burn-in from my experience with my parents' plasma) I doubt Panasonic will do anything about it because they'll try and blame me. It's as though I would have needed to have had a live feed of the set in action to prove to them I didn't do anything wrong.



1.5 week old plasma is a brand new plasma. I think people make the mistake of thinking that if they just run the slides 24/7 and get to 100+ hours then IR won't happen, this isn't the case. What you have isn't burn-in but IR, it will go away. But being that your VT20 is basically brand new I'm sorry to say it may not go away as quickly as you'd like.


----------



## rlindo

So I ran the slides overnight and I just got up and checked things out and the ESPN ticker junk seems to be gone (I used a blanket to try and block out all light but I need to confirm later tonight when it is fully dark) so it was "only" very nasty IR and thankfully not burn-in...or if it was burn-in, the slides got rid of it because I guess 9 hours of slides trumps less than 90 minutes of an on and off static image.


I'm still not pleased with this happening however I am happy it is apparently gone.


I suppose I'll just keep running the slides continuously for 2 years and hope that will be enough to overcome either Panasonic's lame engineering or their bad QC as I do not doubt some have had no issues at all. I'll be shooting for a few hundred hours more of slides (I'll keep sports and other potential issue shows away until after 500 hours) sprinkled in with full screen content on blu-ray that won't have any logo/ticker issues.


----------



## jimbo4242

@rlindo , just relax and enjoy your plasma, it's nothing to worry about and you need to stop thinking about it all the time. As the plasma ages it will handle things better and better but first and foremost you need to clear your mind and stop looking for little things on your HDTV and just sit and enjoy whatever HD your viewing on it.


----------



## Reeltrooper

Just picked up the stripped down 58" Sammy C500. I've been plowing through this thread and am somewhat paranoid. All I want to do is watch widescreen movies but worry about the black bars and IR.


I downloaded the slides but have discovered that the manual says it won't loop a slideshow... I guess I have to go the DVD route but don't want to burn the motor out on the PS3. ARRGH!


I honestly can't tell after all the posts I've read if I should just stop worrying and watch the darn thing or play a DVD every night...


I'd love to see a poll on this.


----------



## sfetaz

While I am not an owner yet of a Plasma but looking to buy one, but thinking running break in dvd's or slides every night for 2 years would just lower the life of the panel? I can understand when you first buying it trying to break in the phospers, but every night for an extended period of time I would think would dramatically lower the life of the TV itself.


----------



## xxrockmanxneoxx

I plan on doing the slides for breakin but have a question on what are people using for settings when running the breakin dvd or slides? Low contrast and Low brightness?


----------



## No Mo' So




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxrockmanxneoxx* /forum/post/19672204
> 
> 
> I plan on doing the slides for breakin but have a question on what are people using for settings when running the breakin dvd or slides? Low contrast and Low brightness?


----------



## xxrockmanxneoxx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *No Mo' So* /forum/post/19672983
> 
> 
> There are differring opinions in different camps...
> 
> 
> Some say high contrast, some low.
> 
> 
> Heck, some even say you don't need to run the slides at all. However, if you choose to not run the slides, then it is recommended that you keep contrast and brightness at a lower setting.
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic G25 that I'm running slides on as I type (almost done!!!) that requires a high contrast but a 50 brightness...and I'm ok with that. The tv has been running straight through the process. The slides are looping and the top of the set is not hot at all...it's warm but there is adequate airflow, so my concerns were minimized!
> 
> 
> I don't know what kind of panel you have but this is the link to the Panasonic break-in/setting thread:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441



I got pn58c7000. I am not sure if I should run the 20 slides or run the other guy with 70 or 120 slides. Also what setting to put contrast and brightness.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxrockmanxneoxx* /forum/post/19672204
> 
> 
> I plan on doing the slides for breakin but have a question on what are people using for settings when running the breakin dvd or slides? Low contrast and Low brightness?


----------



## mjb2123

Quick question as the C8000 will be my first plasma (arriving Tuesday).


My wife and I watch a lot of shows on CBS/NBC and both stations have their logo in the bottom right hand corner. They logo's are somewhat transparent. Will this be a potential burn-in issue?


----------



## Dayton

Network logos aren't an issue at all, Encore HD and the History Channel are another matter.


----------



## simple man

Just got my Samsung 58c8000 last night and I would like to do the break-in. Could someone post the link to the slides and the process on how to do the break-in? I'm still new with this.


Thanks for all the help


----------



## Widgetcraft

Okay guys, so I bought the Panasonic VIERA TC-P42GT25 from Amazon, and it should be here between today and Wednesday, but you guys are absolutely driving me insane with all of this burn-in talk. Some people say burn-in is still an issue, some people say it is not. Some people say you need to break-in your TV, some people say that is outdated info.


Honestly, I would like to be able to play a couple of games once I get my TV, at least for an hour or so each. Why would a game cause so much more burn-in problems than a TV channel with a logo? It isn't as if the HUD is displayed at all times, since you often have to go to the pause screen to do various things, as well as there being breaks for cinematics rather frequently in modern games.


How much time is safe for a static image, like a HUD or television logo, to be displayed on a new plasma? What is the likely-hood of actual burn-in? How much of a problem is image-retention in reality; does it actually disturb your viewing experience? I understand that on blank screen there can be some image retention, but that it goes away over time, why should I worry about this?


I tend to leave my TV on at night on Cartoon Network, as I like to watch Adult Swim as I'm going to bed. Is this going to be a problem, with commercial breaks? I understand that I need to keep it in a mode that fills the screen, and from what I understand Panasonic still has the JUST mode, which I was pretty happy with on my current TV (an old Panasonic CRT HDTV from 2004 or 2005).


I've read quite a few pages on this in this thread, as well as others, and frankly it just makes me more and more paranoid. I'm leaning towards the assumption that burn-in isn't an issue, otherwise Average Joe Consumer would be completely screwed and plasma TVs would be returned constantly, because very few people are going to put as much time as I have into reading about their new TV.


EDIT: Correction on the model of TV, it is the Panasonic VIERA TC-P42GT25.


----------



## mjb2123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19675647
> 
> 
> Network logos aren't an issue at all, Encore HD and the History Channel are another matter.



Thanks. I figured that was the case, but wanted to be sure. I'll have to watch out for the channels that have static non-transparent images like Encore HD and the History Channel.


----------



## theXecutioner

I recently purchased a Samsung PN50C680. I am somewhat versed in the break-in process (low contrast/low brightness with Break In DVD for 250 hours) but I have a few questions.


First, does displaying 3D imagery prevent or reduce IR/burn-in? I ask this since 3D displays two different images over and over, thus changing the pixels' image constantly. Or are they going so fast that the TV doesn't even "notice" that there are two images shifting?


Second, is 150 hours of break-in enough if I use 1 minute pixel shifting afterwords? I plan on using 1 minute shifting regardless, but I also want to start my 3D gaming ASAP!


Thanks for any help folks and Merry Christmas!


----------



## jan2206

pixel shifting doesnt even look like it helps at all


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19682461
> 
> 
> pixel shifting doesnt even look like it helps at all



It only shifts by a couple of pixels, so it serves to blur the retained image thus making it (somewhat) less noticable. IR is better with shifting on, but it only does so much.


----------



## Dayton

Games are more of an issue when it comes to image retention as HUD's are meant to catch the eye and therefore are on the prominent side. Also it can be difficult to limit the time spent playing a game, unless the game sucks but then why would you play it. So gaming usually equates to static images being diplayed for more than an hour.


----------



## Widgetcraft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19684516
> 
> 
> Games are more of an issue when it comes to image retention as HUD's are meant to catch the eye and therefore are on the prominent side. Also it can be difficult to limit the time spent playing a game, unless the game sucks but then why would you play it. So gaming usually equates to static images being diplayed for more than an hour.



How much time playing a game would be considered dangerous for new plasma screen? How much of a break from the game would I need to give it, and how often, to make sure there is no damage to the screen? I'm really wanting to see how _Batman: Arkham Asylum_ looks on it, as that is pretty much my favorite game this generation. I'm assuming that going to the pause screen to distribute skill points... etc, as well as the occasional cinematic doesn't give the screen enough of a break from the HUD.

Batman: Arkham Asylum footage 


Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure that _Batman: AA_ has a HUD outside of combat, except when you need to distribute an ability point...


----------



## Dayton

The important thing is to be aware that IR will happen and while the plasma is new it may hang around longer than you'd like. As you use your plasma for gaming you will discover your tollerance level for IR, keeping in mind it will be less of an issue as the plasma ages.


Arkham Asylum looks like it shouldn't pose much of a problem. Bayonetta is also a good choice as the HUD fades away and that game really shows off what no input lag can do for gaming.


----------



## aznives3

i wouldn't be all THAT worried about gaming. I'm no plasma expert, only had mine for 4 days now, but i couldn't wait 150+ hours to get my xbox/ps3 hooked up to it. I have an LG 50PX950. I've been playing NHL (shut the scoreboard off so it has 0 HUD's), and also COD:Black ops. There are 3 HUD's on COD, and i played for about 3 hours. I have my tv settings low, 50 brightness and 50 contrast for the first little bit, and after that much gaming i do see some IR, however, i REALLY had to look for any IR. i had my face about 6" from the screen and was really looking for it. If i moved back to regular viewing distance i could not tell it was there.


I'm in the boat that if your not a super hardcore plasma guy, just keep your settings easy for a bit, and use the tv as you like, just take the right precautions. I will be running slides when i'm not using the tv just to keep the process moving, however, i was much too excited not to use a new tv right away!


----------



## sfetaz

So I just ordered the PN58C7000 from amazon (Decent hidden price) and plan on using the 120 image break in slide patterns. Two questions:


1. I am getting the TV Thursday morning and wanted to use it on Thursday and Friday for a few hours each day when I first get it. If I play some HUD based games on my PS3 like Uncharted 2 or Gran turismo 5 at the begining, am I more likely to cause my TV a permamnent Burn in issue? Would it be better to just not use the TV until its broken in?


2. On Saturday morning I am leaving my house for 5 days. My plan was to run the break in slides the entire time I am gone without any stop. That would probably end up being about 120 hours straight of running the slides without every giving the TV a break or turning it off. Any risk in doing this or any setting changes I should make to prevent any problems?


Thanks for any help.


----------



## Jefftra

Just got my new Samsung PN50C680 Plasma, just converted from LCD about 1 week ago. I was watching ESPN Sportscenter and they have the bar on the left that shows the next topics. I was watching for about 10 minutes roughly, but when I switched channels I noticed the IR there in dark scenes. I could notice those for several minutes.


My question is do I need to do anything to prevent this? I just want to turn the tv on, watch it and not worry about how long I have a channel on. They eventually went away, but is this going to eventually cause permanent damage?


Once the Plasma has been used more will this be less and less noticeable?


----------



## jan2206

it will always go away unless you leave it on for something extreme. dont worry its not going to be anything permanent even if you see it for a couple minutes


----------



## sfetaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19688526
> 
> 
> it will always go away unless you leave it on for something extreme. dont worry its not going to be anything permanent even if you see it for a couple minutes



Thank you I think that answered my question as well.


----------



## No Mo' So

I just broke in my tv (Panny 46G25) for 100 hours with slides. While I was eager to watch the darned thing (!!!), I just didn't want to take any chances as it is my first plasma. I also followed the offset and settings adjustment table that D-nice provided for my model of tv. What a beaut!!!


I had IR from a tv station logo last night, but all I did was change to a different channel then to another channel, and the IR was gone! I'll continue to be careful for another hundred hours or so, and then see where I'm at when leaving logos on the screen for an extended time...nothing extreme but not changing channels at every commercial break!!!


----------



## jan2206




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *No Mo' So* /forum/post/19689568
> 
> 
> I just broke in my tv (Panny 46G25) for 100 hours with slides. While I was eager to watch the darned thing (!!!), I just didn't want to take any chances as it is my first plasma. I also followed the offset and settings adjustment table that D-nice provided for my model of tv. What a beaut!!!
> 
> 
> I had IR from a tv station logo last night, but all I did was change to a different channel then to another channel, and the IR was gone! I'll continue to be careful for another hundred hours or so, and then see where I'm at when leaving logos on the screen for an extended time...nothing extreme but not changing channels at every commercial break!!!



lol relax. 100 hours should be enough for you to not be paranoid anymore. even if you didn't break-in the tv, the IR would dissapear when you change the channel, the only difference is how long it takes to disappear, but EVEN then its not only alot of time, only a minutes' difference


----------



## No Mo' So




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jan2206* /forum/post/19695180
> 
> 
> lol relax. 100 hours should be enough for you to not be paranoid anymore. even if you didn't break-in the tv, the IR would dissapear when you change the channel, the only difference is how long it takes to disappear, but EVEN then its not only alot of time, only a minutes' difference



Me, paranoid? Who are you and watcha doin' talkin' to me?!?










I figure I'm just being careful but like I said, the IR disappeared quickly after changing the channel so I'm not worried!!!


What model plasma do you have?


----------



## wxman

After a year and a half I have noticed a slight burn in area on my pioneer 5020. I don't use the tv for gaming, just watching tv and movies. The area looks like a faint brown rectangular box on grey and white backgrounds in the lower right hand corner where the logos appear. nothing I have done eliminates it, so it is permanent. I have owned the tv for about 16 months. Not a big deal as you can't see it watching tv or movies, but burn in still occurs even with modern plasmas with normal usage. In fact, I was very careful when I first got this tv by running slides, changing what I watched, etc to prevent this very problem, but if you truly look for it, you will find it.


----------



## jan2206




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *No Mo' So* /forum/post/19695732
> 
> 
> Me, paranoid? Who are you and watcha doin' talkin' to me?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figure I'm just being careful but like I said, the IR disappeared quickly after changing the channel so I'm not worried!!!
> 
> 
> What model plasma do you have?



i had a LG 42PJ350 for 3 weeks then i traded to a samsung PN50C450 bcuz the LG had 3 stuck pixels but whatever ppl say that LG has worse IR than samsung then its not true cuz its pretty much the same.


----------



## Widgetcraft

I've got to tell you guys, I threw caution to the wind and I've been playing games on my brand new plasma and... I've not seen any image retention. This whole thing seems to be blown out of proportion. Even after playing Dead Rising 2 (of the newest games I've got, this one probably has the worst HUD) for about an hour, I saw no image retention on a blank screen.


----------



## kyotousa

I have not break in my plasma set...but I think I put in about 100hrs of watching into it. Because it's been a month.


Is it pretty safe to watch 2.40:1 content now?









LG PK250 btw...same as PK550.


----------



## EnergyOwner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Widgetcraft* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got to tell you guys, I threw caution to the wind and I've been playing games on my brand new plasma and... I've not seen any image retention. This whole thing seems to be blown out of proportion. Even after playing Dead Rising 2 (of the newest games I've got, this one probably has the worst HUD) for about an hour, I saw no image retention on a blank screen.



Not all plasmas are created equal. 1 hour is diddly-squat.


----------



## EnergyOwner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kyotousa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not break in my plasma set...but I think I put in about 100hrs of watching into it. Because it's been a month.
> 
> 
> Is it pretty safe to watch 2.40:1 content now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LG PK250 btw...same as PK550.



Yes. It was safe from the beginning.


----------



## bofa89

Nm


----------



## mheshel

I have a Samsung PN 58c8000 and have had it for about 6 months. I've done all the necessary break in methods and its been working beautifully. Recently I've been watching a lot of ESPN/Sportscenter and have noticed a rather visible IR of the ESPN logo on the bottom right of my screen. I have never kept the TV paused, and thought that commercial breaks would not make the logo IR an issue. I notice it most when its against a white background (such as watching hockey). I have run the scrolling feature and it has helped but its been about 2 weeks and the IR hasn't gone away. I have not once watched ESPN for this entire duration. Am i working with burn in here? What do you recommend I do help me rid of this IR? I dont think its burn in because it is only visible against really white backgrounds.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## neoshredder27

Yeah zoom in ESPN. That ticker seems to be an issue by many I've heard from when it comes to Plasma.


----------



## mheshel

Yea, I will certainly be doing that in the future moving forward. Now how to rid this IR!?


In terms of my settings, I am using a custom movie mode with moderately low levels all around, not torch mode or anything extreme/dynamic.


Should i continue to do the scrolling feature and just wait it out? Its been about 2 weeks. I am starting to get worried.


----------



## neoshredder27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mheshel* /forum/post/19712451
> 
> 
> Yea, I will certainly be doing that in the future moving forward. Now how to rid this IR!?
> 
> 
> In terms of my settings, I am using a custom movie mode with moderately low levels all around, not torch mode or anything extreme/dynamic.
> 
> 
> Should i continue to do the scrolling feature and just wait it out? Its been about 2 weeks. I am starting to get worried.



Torch mode with no logos is the quickest way to get rid of IR.


----------



## nadajohna

So I've been doing my research on the slides that age the pixels more evenly...


I've found two on this forum.


The first:
http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


Made by Evangelo2, recommended by D-Nice in a sticky, comprised of 20 pictures (colors/shades) at 1080p.


The second:
http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/ 


Recommended in someone's sig, comprised of 120 pictures (colors/shades) also at 1080p.


So the question is, which is better? Or does it not matter?


----------



## wxman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mheshel* /forum/post/19712451
> 
> 
> Yea, I will certainly be doing that in the future moving forward. Now how to rid this IR!?
> 
> 
> In terms of my settings, I am using a custom movie mode with moderately low levels all around, not torch mode or anything extreme/dynamic.
> 
> 
> Should i continue to do the scrolling feature and just wait it out? Its been about 2 weeks. I am starting to get worried.



Good luck! I hope you can get rid of the IR. My pioneer 5020 has a faint burn in on the lower right corner too. Unfortunately nothing I have done got rid of it an the tv is now 16 months old. The problem is a lots of sports and news channels are using that scrolling feature. Fox does that now during football games too along it th NFL network and espn. Plus most networks put their logo in the lower right too, and vary rarely change it during the show. I guess to keep this from arising or from getting worse in the future is to run that rolling wash every night.


----------



## neoshredder27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wxman* /forum/post/19712955
> 
> 
> Good luck! I hope you can get rid of the IR. My pioneer 5020 has a faint burn in on the lower right corner too. Unfortunately nothing I have done got rid of it an the tv is now 16 months old. The problem is a lots of sports and news channels are using that scrolling feature. Fox does that now during football games too along it th NFL network and espn. Plus most networks put their logo in the lower right too, and vary rarely change it during the show. I guess to keep this from arising or from getting worse in the future is to run that rolling wash every night.



Or run slides on torch mode to get the IR out quick. Either that or watch blu-ray with full screen.


----------



## agogley

Some PDPs and calibration DVDs have a gray screen that will get rid of IR.


It's nearly impossible to have permanent "burn-in" now days. Pioneer did a whitepaper showing that it would take some ridiculous amount of time to get burn-in.


When you get a new set, it needs to be broken in. I find it helps if you calibrate it right off the bat as it reduces the contrast and brightness. Then as the break in occurs, you recalibrate it.


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agogley* /forum/post/19717858
> 
> 
> S
> 
> It's nearly impossible to have permanent "burn-in" now days. Pioneer did a whitepaper showing that it would take some ridiculous amount of time to get burn-in.



Thats pioneer, you really can't compare pioneer tech no other plasmas. We know for sure they're blacks are far superior any other plasmas, maybe they have figured out to fix IR. My friend went to sleep forgetting to turn off his tv with the ps3 menu on, next day after 8 to 9 hours left no noticeable mark. My LG gets a mark in few minutes, would guess it would get burned in then.


----------



## wxman

Pioneer may have a whitewash test, but normal use of watching a lot of espn sports with the ticker on the bottom will produce a faint burn in. I have it on the lower right corner of my 5020. Nothing gets rid of it. I ran the slides again and it is visible with every color slide. Not a big deal to me as it is not visible with normal viewing. But nonetheless, even the best plasma made can still get burn in with normal viewing.


----------



## Xero678

Hello im getting my LG 50PK250 Plasma in a week and I was wondering how much time should each slide be on the screen before changing to the next one.

Thank you


----------



## No Mo' So




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Xero678* /forum/post/19718698
> 
> 
> Hello im getting my LG 50PK250 Plasma in a week and I was wondering how much time should each slide be on the screen before changing to the next one.
> 
> Thank you



With my Panny, it was 30 second intervals...slideshow was set to slow. I don't see any reason why it should differ for other manufacturers as the point of doing the slides is to age the phosphors as quickly and evenly as possible.


----------



## Xero678

Also can I just break it in by just watching movies, tv and games with no static images or black bars?


----------



## agogley

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Goatse* 
Thats pioneer, you really can't compare pioneer tech no other plasmas. We know for sure they're blacks are far superior any other plasmas, maybe they have figured out to fix IR. My friend went to sleep forgetting to turn off his tv with the ps3 menu on, next day after 8 to 9 hours left no noticeable mark. My LG gets a mark in few minutes, would guess it would get burned in then.
Their white paper was before their last round of Kuros back in the day when Panny's were the AVS Forum favorite.


----------



## agogley

Quote:

Originally Posted by *wxman* 
Pioneer may have a whitewash test, but normal use of watching a lot of espn sports with the ticker on the bottom will produce a faint burn in. I have it on the lower right corner of my 5020. Nothing gets rid of it. I ran the slides again and it is visible with every color slide. Not a big deal to me as it is not visible with normal viewing. But nonetheless, even the best plasma made can still get burn in with normal viewing.
Dude...it's "white paper" not whitewash test. Look it up if you don't know the term.


----------



## agogley

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Xero678* 
Also can I just break it in by just watching movies, tv and games with no static images or black bars?
Yes. During the first few hours of a plasma the phosphors are "hotter" than after about 100 hours. 250 hours is considered the safest. What you are trying to accomplish with a break in is to age the phosphors evenly until they are "hardened." Any content that doesn't leave part of the screen in some static position (i.e., black bars, HUDs, etc.) will accomplish this objective.


However, no PDP manufacturer has recommended a break-in period since 2007. Most PDP factory's support the view that no break-in period is necessary.


----------



## wxman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agogley* /forum/post/19723825
> 
> 
> Dude...it's "white paper" not whitewash test. Look it up if you don't know the term.



Sorry if I didn't have the "right" term for god's sake. My point was that pioneers suffer burn in problems just like other plasmas, even with normal use.


----------



## blackblaze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agogley* /forum/post/19717858
> 
> 
> Some PDPs and calibration DVDs have a gray screen that will get rid of IR.
> 
> 
> It's nearly impossible to have permanent "burn-in" now days. Pioneer did a whitepaper showing that it would take some ridiculous amount of time to get burn-in.
> 
> 
> When you get a new set, it needs to be broken in. I find it helps if you calibrate it right off the bat as it reduces the contrast and brightness. Then as the break in occurs, you recalibrate it.



I read that you shouldn't calibrate a new plasma until it has been broken in. I just received the 58c8000 and will be firing it up this Friday and trying to read up on all suggested tips to get the best life out of being a new plasma owner. Tips I've seen is to at least change the setting to "movie" and do a break in of 100hrs, and afterwards, calibrate the TVs to your liking.


I've also heard that break-ins discs were meant for the older plasmas and the newer ones don't need it, but it doesn't hurt either.


So, my question, as Im sure it has been answered (still reading through the thread) does playing a break-in disc count as the break-in period of 100hrs?


----------



## blackblaze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nadajohna* /forum/post/19712806
> 
> 
> So I've been doing my research on the slides that age the pixels more evenly...
> 
> 
> I've found two on this forum.
> 
> 
> The first:
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> Made by Evangelo2, recommended by D-Nice in a sticky, comprised of 20 pictures (colors/shades) at 1080p.
> 
> 
> The second:
> http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/
> 
> 
> Recommended in someone's sig, comprised of 120 pictures (colors/shades) also at 1080p.
> 
> 
> So the question is, which is better? Or does it not matter?



I'd like to hear the answer to that as well, as I was recommended to go with eaprogramming to get a break in disc for a new plasma.


----------



## Legoheads

I too am up for an answer on the preferred break-in slides: the webapalooza 120 or the Evangelo2 ones.

Also, I have a few other questions that I'm hoping I can get some feedback on:


- contrast setting during break-in? Maxed at 100 or


----------



## Optima2003




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Legoheads* /forum/post/19728282
> 
> 
> I too am up for an answer on the preferred break-in slides: the webapalooza 120 or the Evangelo2 ones.
> 
> Also, I have a few other questions that I'm hoping I can get some feedback on:
> 
> 
> - contrast setting during break-in? Maxed at 100 or


----------



## rkhopkins

I've been reading the plasma threads since I want to replace my rear projection CRT with a plasma. The CRT was supposed to be very much prone to burn in, but I've had it for eight years and have had no such problems with it. I take care not to have the same picture displayed for hours and hours but I don't baby it - I watch Blu-rays with black bars and don't worry about it. I cannot believe that I would have more burn in issues with a modern plasma than with that RPTV. Time will tell, I suppose.


----------



## jamor

I never broke in my G25 Plasma - hopefully it will be okay!


----------



## jamor

One thing to note is don't watch movies with Black bars on bottom and top for a while!


----------



## No Mo' So




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamor* /forum/post/19730247
> 
> 
> One thing to note is don't watch movies with Black bars on bottom and top for a while!



I broke in my tv with slides for 100 hours then I watched some hours of regular HD tv. Then it was AVATAR (Amazing, by the way), then onto a letterbox movie. Yes, there was black bar IR but that disappeared after viewing a few minutes of full screen content. Really, I don't think we need to worry about burn in. IR, sure, but it quickly disappears.


----------



## Johnnie.walker

Brand new member here waiting on delivery of my TC-P42S2! I was thinking of setting it up and looping the "break in slides" as described earlier. I was just wondering if there's anything else I should do. Do you guys pretty much just run the slides until the break in period is over before you start actually using the TV?


Probably my biggest questions is about settings. Where should I have my settings during beak in?


----------



## Legoheads

[/quote]Last question...I think that is exactly the same reason like the contrast/brightness setting to LOW....correct me if I am wrong.[/quote]


Thanks Optima!

Can anyone else clarify why D-Nice uses Cool color temperature for break-in and then calibrates to Warm? Doesn't it make more sense to break-in using the intended Warm color temp from the get go? Does it even matter?


----------



## tino5k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mheshel* /forum/post/19712337
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung PN 58c8000 and have had it for about 6 months. I've done all the necessary break in methods and its been working beautifully. Recently I've been watching a lot of ESPN/Sportscenter and have noticed a rather visible IR of the ESPN logo on the bottom right of my screen. I have never kept the TV paused, and thought that commercial breaks would not make the logo IR an issue. I notice it most when its against a white background (such as watching hockey). I have run the scrolling feature and it has helped but its been about 2 weeks and the IR hasn't gone away. I have not once watched ESPN for this entire duration. Am i working with burn in here? What do you recommend I do help me rid of this IR? I dont think its burn in because it is only visible against really white backgrounds.
> 
> 
> Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!



I have this yrs 50 inch Panny plasma(not 3d) and I have the same issue. It started just last night. I have been running screen patterns in torch mode and rolling bars but I can still see the espn HD logo. It isn't noticeable during normal viewing but when there is an all white background you can see the logo.


I've been watching full screen HD movies all morning with no logos. I can't notice it during the movies, but if I pull up firefox on it(via my media center pc) I can see the logo, but it doesn't appear to be as bad as it was yesterday. About how long should it take to get rid of if watching full screen HD content with no logos or running screen patterns or rolling bars?


----------



## ghgoldberg

I made a couple of slides that I am using to average out the usage of the pixels in the letterbox and pillarbox bands of my display. I inserted these two slides into my color slideshow after about 100 hours of aging with just the standard 70 slides (and occassional tv viewing).


Rather than use full black and white, I used a dark gray (R=64,G=64,B=64) for the black, and an off white (R=192,G=192,B=192) for the white. Also I applied a fade at the transition, so these slides should be safe for any reasonable application.


Since I watch a good deal of widescreen bluray movies, the inverse letterbox is more important for me. I now keep these slides in my slideshow whenever I run it, and occassionally I will run the inverse letterbox as a static image.


My goal is simply to temper the aging of my (Panny TC-P65VT25) screen. The effect will be subtle at best. I am including the slides here for anyone to use as they wish.


----------



## kris achar

_Nice stills great work !


And i personally feel that the plasma tv manufactures should either give a screen saver built into the tv which should kick in when the tv is made to display static images for more than 10 minutes or give a burn in BD Disc for the benefit of their coustomers during the time of purchase...And also all HD broadcasters must stop displaying constant trade logo's in one perticular corner of the tv screen.

Since most of the HD tv service is paid,they should stop running add banner at the bottom of the tv screen.


Love,

kris.
_


----------



## simple man

Does anyone have calibrated settings for the 58c8000 plasma with contrast and brightness at or under 50%.


Thanks


----------



## drsky125

Hi folks! I'm not an expert and I apologize in advance if my question has been addressed in the past. I recently purchased a Samsung PN58C8000. After reading mixed opinions about the break-in period, I decided not to run the break-in slides but to watch regular TV or stream Netlix in "movie mode", always making sure not to leave channels with high-contrast logos for more than 15 minutes. I also watched So far, this seems to have worked as I cannot detect any IR on my screen.


I would like to start watching some blu-rays but most movies I own have a 2.40:1 aspect ratio. I tried the different "picture size" options on the TV but none completely gets rid of the black bars at the bottom and top of the screen. The zoom options are not available either.


So my question is: is there any way to watch a 2.40:1 movie during the break-in period without significantly burning/harming the screen? If so, what settings/procedure would you suggest?

Thanks a lot for any suggestion/advice!


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drsky125* /forum/post/19745700
> 
> 
> Hi folks! I'm not an expert and I apologize in advance if my question has been addressed in the past. I recently purchased a Samsung PN58C8000. After reading mixed opinions about the break-in period, I decided not to run the break-in slides but to watch regular TV or stream Netlix in "movie mode", always making sure not to leave channels with high-contrast logos for more than 15 minutes. I also watched So far, this seems to have worked as I cannot detect any IR on my screen.
> 
> 
> I would like to start watching some blu-rays but most movies I own have a 2.40:1 aspect ratio. I tried the different "picture size" options on the TV but none completely gets rid of the black bars at the bottom and top of the screen. The zoom options are not available either.
> 
> 
> So my question is: is there any way to watch a 2.40:1 movie during the break-in period without significantly burning/harming the screen? If so, what settings/procedure would you suggest?
> 
> Thanks a lot for any suggestion/advice!



You didn't say how many hours are on your tv. It certainly is not necessary to run break-in slides, and it seems that you have been taking reasonable care during break-in of your screen. I can only tell you what I would do. I wouldn't watch any content with bars for anything longer than a few minutes during the first 150-200 hours. However, referencing page no. 18 of your user manual, there are indeed zoom options that you can select. Give them a try.


----------



## drsky125

Thanks for replying so promptly. I've been using the set for about 50 hours since I purchased it. I tried to use the "zoom" settings you refered to but, unfortunately, this feature is disabled when using a HDMI source.


Since I'm still quite far off the 150-200 hours of break-in recommended by many on this forum, would you suggest that I complement my regular viewing during the day with break-in slides during the night?


----------



## DRC72

God you guys are to anal......... I never broke in my set when I first bought it, and two years later IR is rarely an issue with my set. I still enjoy a beautiful picture without any issues. Just enjoy the dam thing.


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drsky125* /forum/post/19745916
> 
> 
> Thanks for replying so promptly. I've been using the set for about 50 hours since I purchased it. I tried to use the "zoom" settings you refered to but, unfortunately, this feature is disabled when using a HDMI source.
> 
> 
> Since I'm still quite far off the 150-200 hours of break-in recommended by many on this forum, would you suggest that I complement my regular viewing during the day with break-in slides during the night?



It wouldn't hurt to use the slides. If you run the slides overnight for a few nights it'll help you get over the breakin period faster and will help ensure that it was broken in evenly.


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DRC72* /forum/post/19746238
> 
> 
> God you guys are to anal......... I never broke in my set when I first bought it, and two years later IR is rarely an issue with my set. I still enjoy a beautiful picture without any issues. Just enjoy the dam thing.



I agree that many people get caried away with this break in issue, but if you want to get the most our of your screen it makes sence to see to it that the field is evenly aged. If you pay attention to the issue during the first couple hundred hours, then IMO you'd be better off.


BTW, if IR and burn-in isn't important for you, why are you posting in this particular forum?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghgoldberg* /forum/post/19747168
> 
> 
> I agree that many people get caried away with this break in issue, but if you want to get the most our of your screen it makes sence to see to it that the field is evenly aged. If you pay attention to the issue during the first couple hundred hours, then IMO you'd be better off.
> 
> 
> BTW, if IR and burn-in isn't important for you, why are you posting in this particular forum?


_Well Said !


I think Sony & pioneer left making plasma panels because many of their customers did not know how to use a palsma tv,in the first place.i.e

most of the complaints should have been the IR & burn effect from their customers and must have returned those sets back as defectives.


In most of the forums i see that in the topics of burn-in period of plasma panels,one group support the 100hr slides usage and one group suggesting just watch any broadcast content and do not worry.

But its clear that some are also complaining that their new plasma tv has IR due to watching tv broadcast.Which is very clear that the panels do need gradual aging or burn in procedure.


My gut feeling is that if the 3D technology does not get popularized in the next 3 years then the first causality would be the plasma panel,Which could be stopped.Since manufacturing a LCD or led-lcd tv's are far more economical and less wastage during production than the bulky plasma screens.


love,

kris._


----------



## kyotousa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_Well Said !


I think Sony & pioneer left making plasma panels because many of their customers did not know how to use a palsma tv,in the first place.i.e

most of the complaints should have been the IR & burn effect from their customers and must have returned those sets back as defectives.


In most of the forums i see that in the topics of burn-in period of plasma panels,one group support the 100hr slides usage and one group suggesting just watch any broadcast content and do not worry.

But its clear that some are also complaining that their new plasma tv has IR due to watching tv broadcast.Which is very clear that the panels do need gradual aging or burn in procedure.


My gut feeling is that if the 3D technology does not get popularized in the next 3 years then the first causality would be the plasma panel,Which could be stopped.Since manufacturing a LCD or led-lcd tv's are far more economical and less wastage during production than the bulky plasma screens.


love,

kris._
They left the plasma business because LCD has higher margin of profit.

The Plasma's glass is costly...

I started watching 1:24.3 content yesterday. I probably got in about 120hrs of usage. There's IR but no burn in.


----------



## kris achar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kyotousa* 
They left the plasma business because LCD has higher margin of profit.

The Plasma's glass is costly...

I started watching 1:24.3 content yesterday. I probably got in about 120hrs of usage. There's IR but no burn in.
_Hai,

Thanks for the explination & your time.

love,

kris._


----------



## drsky125




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghgoldberg* /forum/post/19747149
> 
> 
> It wouldn't hurt to use the slides. If you run the slides overnight for a few nights it'll help you get over the breakin period faster and will help ensure that it was broken in evenly.



Geoffrey, thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate the help.


----------



## agogley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drsky125* /forum/post/19745916
> 
> 
> Thanks for replying so promptly. I've been using the set for about 50 hours since I purchased it. I tried to use the "zoom" settings you refered to but, unfortunately, this feature is disabled when using a HDMI source.
> 
> 
> Since I'm still quite far off the 150-200 hours of break-in recommended by many on this forum, would you suggest that I complement my regular viewing during the day with break-in slides during the night?



You don't need to worry about the break-in. I'm not aware of any PDP manufacturer that has recommended a break-in period since 2007. It doesn't hurt to be careful during your first 100 hours, but it shouldn't prohibit you from watching a movie. My advice would be to watch a movie, but then make sure you have on content that takes up the full screen after that and before you watch another movie.


Even if you get IR, it's only temporary that is easily corrected.


----------



## somedude1

Hi Guys.


I jusy realize that my brother's heavy gaming left some burn in images on my VT20. Is there anything I can do to get rid of this? THanks in advance!


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *somedude1* /forum/post/19780680
> 
> 
> Hi Guys.
> 
> 
> I jusy realize that my brother's heavy gaming left some burn in images on my VT20. Is there anything I can do to get rid of this? THanks in advance!



Avoid the content that left the retained images and run the break-in slides in Vivid/Dynamic mode. Be patient, depending on how bad it is it can take weeks to go away.


----------



## CaptainZombie

I'm a first time plasma owner, so trying to better understand everything with the technology....so here goes. I have about 240+ hours on the TV now. Any help would be appreciated.


That G20 I bought last week has been very good so far, I am utterly amazed by the PQ. Last night I noticed a little bit of image retention after watching a 2:40:1 (letterboxed) film where the bars were still on screen......but I washed the screen with the scrolling bar feature and they went away. Then I noticed another problem when I saw that IR. In the upper right hand corner, there is some text (looks like the number 0) that looks to be burned into the screen. I only notice it when I'm changing HDMI inputs where the screen is light gray or if there is a solid green background. I ran the scrolling bar feature for 15 minutes and it was still there (I will try to run it for longer today).


When watching movies, TV, or games I do not see it at all. I have read on here that some slight burn-in can go away after a little while, so not sure what to do here. I don't want to take this off the wall again.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* /forum/post/19781974
> 
> 
> I'm a first time plasma owner, so trying to better understand everything with the technology....so here goes. I have about 240+ hours on the TV now. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> That G20 I bought last week has been very good so far, I am utterly amazed by the PQ. Last night I noticed a little bit of image retention after watching a 2:40:1 (letterboxed) film where the bars were still on screen......but I washed the screen with the scrolling bar feature and they went away. Then I noticed another problem when I saw that IR. In the upper right hand corner, there is some text (looks like the number 0) that looks to be burned into the screen. I only notice it when I'm changing HDMI inputs where the screen is light gray or if there is a solid green background. I ran the scrolling bar feature for 15 minutes and it was still there (I will try to run it for longer today).
> 
> 
> When watching movies, TV, or games I do not see it at all. I have read on here that some slight burn-in can go away after a little while, so not sure what to do here. I don't want to take this off the wall again.



It's not burn-in, way too early to call it that. IR can hang around for a bit, especially when the plasma is new. It should go away after a while, unless you are still displaying the content that created the IR. Do you have a PS3?, the ticker/clock at the dashboard gets retained quickly on a new plasma so I'm wondering if that's what you are seeing.


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19782681
> 
> 
> It's not burn-in, way too early to call it that. IR can hang around for a bit, especially when the plasma is new. It should go away after a while, unless you are still displaying the content that created the IR. Do you have a PS3?, the ticker/clock at the dashboard gets retained quickly on a new plasma so I'm wondering if that's what you are seeing.



Yes, I do have a PS3......I keep forgetting how bright the pop-ups are at times for the notifications even though they flash. About how long do you think before I should start worrying if that image/text does not go away? Since it doesn't hamper TV viewing or games, should I not worry about it?


----------



## somedude1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19780751
> 
> 
> Avoid the content that left the retained images and run the break-in slides in Vivid/Dynamic mode. Be patient, depending on how bad it is it can take weeks to go away.



Thanks for the advice. Regarding the break-in slides, would that be the break-in downloadable file on page 1 of this thread? Sorry, I'm a noob. Thansks!


----------



## jamor

Are you guys sure we need break ins? I think this might be something that was once helpful but no longer necessary..


I have a 42" Panasonic Viera G25 and I did not know anything about breaking it in nor did I do any research until I stumbled upon this.


It has been about 100 hours and in the first 75 I watched a couple shows and movies ("THX" mode) that had black bars on the sides and bottom (before I learned the zoom feature).


I have also been doing heavy gaming on ("Game" mode setting - very bright).


2 nights I fell asleep and the channel stopped working (thanks time warner) so it sat in the black screen state as if nothing is plugged in even though it is on (about 4 hours at a time).


1 night I fell asleep and it sat on the xbox home menu.


That being said, I don't see any problems, any burn ins.. (looked as hard as possible).


I don't see any bars/images on the bottom or sides burned in.


Are you guys sure this is really necessary? I think they might be getting to where break ins are a thing of the past..


I disobeyed everything (from gaming mode with xbox, to black bars on sides and bottom for hours and hours, to falling asleep on static screens) and I see NO issues whatsoever.


Not trying to hate on the gurus that want everything absolutely perfect which I understand. Just sharing my experience in that I was very naughty and the picture still looks amazing.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* /forum/post/19782711
> 
> 
> Yes, I do have a PS3......I keep forgetting how bright the pop-ups are at times for the notifications even though they flash. About how long do you think before I should start worrying if that image/text does not go away? Since it doesn't hamper TV viewing or games, should I not worry about it?



I doubt it is from notifications, it is more than likely that ticker/clock at the dashboard. I noticed that clock gets retained quickly on my VT25, so I don't linger at the PS3 dashboard for too long. You shouldn't worry about it, it should go away in time just avoid being at the PS3 dashboard for too long and if you suspect it is from notifications you may want to turn that off.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *somedude1* /forum/post/19782762
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. Regarding the break-in slides, would that be the break-in downloadable file on page 1 of this thread? Sorry, I'm a noob. Thansks!



The image for the DVD can be found here:
http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


The slides can be found here:
http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/index.php 


Or if your plasma has a "color" wash you can use that.


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19783262
> 
> 
> I doubt it is from notifications, it is more than likely that ticker/clock at the dashboard. I noticed that clock gets retained quickly on my VT25, so I don't linger at the PS3 dashboard for too long. You shouldn't worry about it, it should go away in time just avoid being at the PS3 dashboard for too long and if you suspect it is from notifications you may want to turn that off.



I'll have to take a look and see if the clock can be turned off. Do you recommend that I run the scrolling bar again a bit longer than the 15 minutes or should this go away on its own?


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* 
I'll have to take a look and see if the clock can be turned off. Do you recommend that I run the scrolling bar again a bit longer than the 15 minutes or should this go away on its own?
PS3 dashboard ticker/clock can't be turned off. You don't want to overuse the built in white wash. Color wash is preferred for extended periods of use. If your plasma doesn't have color wash use the break-in slides instead. This is just to make it go away more quickly.


----------



## CaptainZombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dayton* 
PS3 dashboard ticker/clock can't be turned off. You don't want to overuse the built in white wash. Color wash is preferred for extended periods of use. If your plasma doesn't have color wash use the break-in slides instead. This is just to make it go away more quickly.
Ok, do you recommend that I try these slides and settings that D-Nice has?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18252415 


Should I run these slides overnight while asleep....will that be sufficient amount of time to get that off the screen?


Thanks again


----------



## jamor

-


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* 
Ok, do you recommend that I try these slides and settings that D-Nice has?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18252415 


Should I run these slides overnight while asleep....will that be sufficient amount of time to get that off the screen?


Thanks again
Yes, run the slides when you're normally not watching like over night. It may take a while for it to go away but you should notice the IR lighten.


----------



## jamisonia

I seem to have IR that only appears when I'm watching HD content. I'll explain, after watching an episode of the Pacific, I paused the BD for a little while, and after I came back I noticed a thing black line where the pause box was displayed on the TV. When I used the scrolling bars I couldn't see it. I turned on my Wii and I couldn't see it. I then put in a DVD into the BD player and I couldn't see it. I went back to the Pacific and the line was there again. Irritated I turned off the TV and everything and when it all came back up the line was gone. I didn't think anything of it until yesterday when I was watching Back to the Future Part III. Again I had paused sometime during the movie and during a bright sky scene I noticed the bar there again. Same symptoms, it would only show with a BD disc in the player, not on any SD source. I turned the TV off, went to bed, and this morning the line is gone.


----------



## agogley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wxman* /forum/post/19725049
> 
> 
> Sorry if I didn't have the "right" term for god's sake. My point was that pioneers suffer burn in problems just like other plasmas, even with normal use.



wrong. They showed it was extremely difficult to get "burn-in" on their sets. I suspect it's the same for most current PDPs since that white paper is fairly old now.


----------



## agogley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *somedude1* /forum/post/19780680
> 
> 
> Hi Guys.
> 
> 
> I jusy realize that my brother's heavy gaming left some burn in images on my VT20. Is there anything I can do to get rid of this? THanks in advance!



It's not burned in. Just run some high contrast programming for a while. It will go away.


----------



## agogley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blackblaze* /forum/post/19726911
> 
> 
> I read that you shouldn't calibrate a new plasma until it has been broken in. I just received the 58c8000 and will be firing it up this Friday and trying to read up on all suggested tips to get the best life out of being a new plasma owner. Tips I've seen is to at least change the setting to "movie" and do a break in of 100hrs, and afterwards, calibrate the TVs to your liking.
> 
> 
> I've also heard that break-ins discs were meant for the older plasmas and the newer ones don't need it, but it doesn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> So, my question, as Im sure it has been answered (still reading through the thread) does playing a break-in disc count as the break-in period of 100hrs?



They don't recommend a calibration until after the break in period because after the break in, you'll need another calibration. However, if you want to avoid early IR you'll have a better picture by calibrating the set then you will by merely turning the contrast and brightness to some random setting.


----------



## agogley

 http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf 


"First, while image retention can occur in modern plasmas, the effect is temporary.

After the 48-hour torture test, all three of the plasma TVs that were tested showed

clearly visible images from the game menu, whereas none of the LCD or MD rearprojection-

based sets showed any image retention. However, after regular video

material (a DVD movie set to continuously loop) was played through the sets for 24

hours, the image completely disappeared from all three plasmas, leaving no trace.

Unlike early generation plasmas, where those type of images would not go away and

could actually "burn" onto the screen, modern plasma TVs enjoy a combination of

more robust screen materials and subtle image-shifting technologies that have

rendered this former issue moot."


"Key Takeaway - Central to this test is the acknowledgement that our demonstration

was an extreme scenario that few consumers would ever experience with their

televisions. Most potential buyers scared off by the notion of plasma "burn-in" are

more focused on the damage caused while pausing a football game or their favorite

show on TiVo for a few minutes while running around the house. Our tests show that

current plasma technology can tolerate a full 48-hour session on pause, and then

resume its original state with no permanent effects after a 24-hour video loop. Thus,

while it is unlikely that a consumer of a current generation (or later) plasma TV will

even notice any image retention caused by 5 or 10 or even 60 minutes on pause, it is

most definite that any such image retention will disappear over the course of

subsequent TV watching."


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/19784266
> 
> 
> Yes, run the slides when you're normally not watching like over night. It may take a while for it to go away but you should notice the IR lighten.



The IR seemed to go away last night when I got home from work. My wife had the TV on during the day and I ran the Scrolling Bar for 30 minutes. The image is gone. But today my son and I were playing a co-op game for about 1.5 hours with a hud on screen, I would pause every so often to change the images on screen. After I turned it off, I could see some remnants of the hud on the input screen. I want to see how long it takes for this to go away.


Do you guys think that IR could be history in plasma's in the future or is that just a nature of the beast with this tech?


----------



## Buckeye911

^ It's the nature of the beast but it's only rarely visible during normal programming so it's nothing to worry about, in my opinion anyway.


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/19792697
> 
> 
> ^ It's the nature of the beast but it's only rarely visible during normal programming so it's nothing to worry about, in my opinion anyway.



Once plasmas are really broken in, say like 500-1,000 hours.........does IR become much less? I'm becoming too much of a worry wort the more I see it. LOL! During normal viewing, I haven't seen anything yet unless I'm right on top of the screen. My buddy just called me Sherlock Holmes with this TV. hahahha


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* /forum/post/19792745
> 
> 
> Once plasmas are really broken in, say like 500-1,000 hours.........does IR become much less? I'm becoming too much of a worry wort the more I see it. LOL! During normal viewing, I haven't seen anything yet unless I'm right on top of the screen. My buddy just called me Sherlock Holmes with this TV. hahahha



After 500 hours, IR effects will be minimal and in any event temporary.


If you want to even things out a bit, you can run the slides overnight now and then.


Nothing to worry about. Enjoy your TV.


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghgoldberg* /forum/post/19797107
> 
> 
> After 500 hours, IR effects will be minimal and in any event temporary.
> 
> 
> If you want to even things out a bit, you can run the slides overnight now and then.
> 
> 
> Nothing to worry about. Enjoy your TV.



Thanks, that sounds good and a peace of mind.


----------



## sgt_slap_a_hoe

Hey I beleieve i have burn in on my TV I have a panasonic 50 inch S2. Burn in appears to be on the bottom of the TV and im looking to get rid of it. I have been reading up leaving white screens on the TV or cable static on it to help. Cable static does not come on this TV if you put it on a channel with no cable it just says no signal found.


Need some help thanks


----------



## jamor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgt_slap_a_hoe* /forum/post/19799019
> 
> 
> Hey I beleieve i have burn in on my TV I have a panasonic 50 inch S2. Burn in appears to be on the bottom of the TV and im looking to get rid of it. I have been reading up leaving white screens on the TV or cable static on it to help. Cable static does not come on this TV if you put it on a channel with no cable it just says no signal found.
> 
> 
> Need some help thanks



Go into menu > tools and scroll to "image retention" and run the vertical white bar to fix burn ins.


It is set to run for 15 minutes and then automatically revert back to the program you are watching.


I have the G25 however - I'm guessing you have the same setting on your S2 since they are both 2010 Panasonic Plasmas.


----------



## dustyw

Hi

Just got my first plasma...i'm using the slides to break it in - well the slowest the slides will turn is 8 seconds....


I read they should be set too 30 seconds per slide....is 8 seconds per slide good enough?


Also for the 8 second slide - use the 70 or 120 version?


Thanks guys, much appreciated.


----------



## sgt_slap_a_hoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamor* /forum/post/19803349
> 
> 
> Go into menu > tools and scroll to "image retention" and run the vertical white bar to fix burn ins.
> 
> 
> It is set to run for 15 minutes and then automatically revert back to the program you are watching.
> 
> 
> I have the G25 however - I'm guessing you have the same setting on your S2 since they are both 2010 Panasonic Plasmas.




ive already done this and it does not seem to work


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dustyw* /forum/post/19804606
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Just got my first plasma...i'm using the slides to break it in - well the slowest the slides will turn is 8 seconds....
> 
> 
> I read they should be set too 30 seconds per slide....is 8 seconds per slide good enough?
> 
> 
> Also for the 8 second slide - use the 70 or 120 version?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, much appreciated.




The 70 slides is more than enough. 8 seconds per slide will be OK. It will simply run throught the slides faster. The idea is to exercise the pixels, so that they age evenly. Run the slides overnight and view regular content (fullscreen without bars) as desired. After a week or so of doing this, you'll be fine. Even after the screen has broken in, you may wish to run the slides overnight evry now and then.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgt_slap_a_hoe* /forum/post/19806343
> 
> 
> ive already done this and it does not seem to work



Run the break-in slides over night at Vivid/Dynamic settings, safer to do a color wash than white for extended periods. Hopefully the IR will lighten after doing this a few times, depending how bad the IR is it may take a while to completely go away.


----------



## calvin35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agogley* /forum/post/19787570
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf
> 
> 
> "First, while image retention can occur in modern plasmas, the effect is temporary.
> 
> After the 48-hour torture test, all three of the plasma TVs that were tested showed
> 
> clearly visible images from the game menu, whereas none of the LCD or MD rearprojection-
> 
> based sets showed any image retention. However, after regular video
> 
> material (a DVD movie set to continuously loop) was played through the sets for 24
> 
> hours, the image completely disappeared from all three plasmas, leaving no trace.
> 
> Unlike early generation plasmas, where those type of images would not go away and
> 
> could actually "burn" onto the screen, modern plasma TVs enjoy a combination of
> 
> more robust screen materials and subtle image-shifting technologies that have
> 
> rendered this former issue moot."
> 
> 
> "Key Takeaway – Central to this test is the acknowledgement that our demonstration
> 
> was an extreme scenario that few consumers would ever experience with their
> 
> televisions. Most potential buyers scared off by the notion of plasma "burn-in" are
> 
> more focused on the damage caused while pausing a football game or their favorite
> 
> show on TiVo for a few minutes while running around the house. Our tests show that
> 
> current plasma technology can tolerate a full 48-hour session on pause, and then
> 
> resume its original state with no permanent effects after a 24-hour video loop. Thus,
> 
> while it is unlikely that a consumer of a current generation (or later) plasma TV will
> 
> even notice any image retention caused by 5 or 10 or even 60 minutes on pause, it is
> 
> most definite that any such image retention will disappear over the course of
> 
> subsequent TV watching."



I would say that new plasma owners should probably not take this to heart. Burn-in/IR can take much longer than 24 hours to get rid of and is far easier to get than pioneer is letting on.


----------



## Englishbloke

Guys, looking for a little help. I am running webapalooza's 120 break in slides on my 58 inch Panasonic VT25 from a flash drive. I notice that on the display there is a narrow black band about ¼ “ wide round the edge of the display that remains black. I have fiddled with the screen/aspect settings i.e. ‘full’, ‘zoom’ etc but cannot seem to get the slides to fill the entire screen. Is this an issue with the slides or does anyone know whether the TV is showing the full display? I have not connected to any other source yet. I am concerned that this narrow band will itself cause burn in. Anyone else with a VT25 experienced this and is there an easy fix to get the slides to fill the entire screen? Would appreciate the help. Thanks.


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Englishbloke* 
Guys, looking for a little help. I am running webapalooza's 120 break in slides on my 58 inch Panasonic VT25 from a flash drive. I notice that on the display there is a narrow black band about ¼ wide round the edge of the display that remains black. I have fiddled with the screen/aspect settings i.e. full', zoom' etc but cannot seem to get the slides to fill the entire screen. Is this an issue with the slides or does anyone know whether the TV is showing the full display? I have not connected to any other source yet. I am concerned that this narrow band will itself cause burn in. Anyone else with a VT25 experienced this and is there an easy fix to get the slides to fill the entire screen? Would appreciate the help. Thanks.
Under Aspect Ratio for Full you should see what I think is called Size, 1 for 95% and 2 for 100%. So selecting 1 should fill the entire screen.


----------



## Englishbloke

Thanks for the thought Dayton. I think I tried that but it didn't help. I will check again tonight. Maybe its the display. There is another thread tht indicates the 65" has about half an inch all the way around.


----------



## eyoussef

Hey guys, i'm new here. I've tried reading as many of the posts as possible in this thread but couldn't do them all so I apologize in advance if what I ask has already been answered. Got myself an LG 50pk550 yesterday.


- So the 70 version of the break in slides will be good enough (over the 120 slides)?

- What should the tv settings be at? (brightness, contrast,...).

- Should I leave the slides running continuously for 100 hours or set it for a few hours, turn it off, few more hours. Or can I set it for a few hours, watch some tv zoomed in for full screen, but it back on the slide show?


Many of my friends haven't done the break in, some have just watched tv on lowered tv settings on full screen and done the occassional colour wash. None of them experience IR or burn in. I just want to be safe. I've upgraded from a 15 year old crt to this, so it's my first tv







. I just want to be able to watch sports (hockey, football) and play call of duty without worrying


----------



## ken2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nadajohna* /forum/post/19712806
> 
> 
> So I've been doing my research on the slides that age the pixels more evenly...
> 
> 
> I've found two on this forum.
> 
> 
> The first:
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/
> 
> 
> Made by Evangelo2, recommended by D-Nice in a sticky, comprised of 20 pictures (colors/shades) at 1080p.
> 
> 
> The second:
> http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/
> 
> 
> Recommended in someone's sig, comprised of 120 pictures (colors/shades) also at 1080p.
> 
> 
> So the question is, which is better? Or does it not matter?




I've been using the D-Nice 20 slides (without fiddling with any advanced settings), but may move to the 70 or 120 versions.


Will using the versions with more slides speed up the process? For example, does the frequency of color change affect the break in process or is it purely a matter of time spent activated?


----------



## johnnyhanson

I've had my 63" Samsung c8000 Plasma for almost 3 months. The first 2 weeks, I ran the Break-in DVD with low contrast and brightness. I varied my viewing between cable TV, Blu-rays, Wii video games (game mode). I haven't had problems until last week. I noticed that my Wii game life/health meter got burned in. I ran the scrolling bars for the first 2 nights and I left the TV on a channel with just static/snow for a night...nothing. I've been running the Break-In DVD for the past 5 days...the IR or Burn-in is still there.

I called Samsung tech and they told me it was Burn in and that there is nothing that can be done. Do I have burn in? It's been a week and I still have the image retention. I've been really careful with my viewing so I don't understand how this could've happened.

Do you guys think I have permanent Burn in or is this really strong IR ?


----------



## Dayton

Did the retained image lighten at all?, that is a good indicator if it can be removed in time.


----------



## johnnyhanson

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dayton* 
Did the retained image lighten at all?, that is a good indicator if it can be removed in time.
It's really hard to tell. If there was improvement, it is barely noticeable. I feel that it has not gotten any better after 1 week of pampering.


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnnyhanson* /forum/post/19828655
> 
> 
> It's really hard to tell. If there was improvement, it is barely noticeable. I feel that it has not gotten any better after 1 week of pampering.



Be careful with those games. I notice with the PS3 XMB clock, that the darn thing will always leave IR even if I'm on there for under a minute. Not sure what the deal is, but I'm the Panny G20.


----------



## johnnyhanson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie* /forum/post/19828921
> 
> 
> Be careful with those games. I notice with the PS3 XMB clock, that the darn thing will always leave IR even if I'm on there for under a minute. Not sure what the deal is, but I'm the Panny G20.



thinking about buying a new one and returning this burned in one with the new receipt


----------



## CaptainZombie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnnyhanson* /forum/post/19829014
> 
> 
> thinking about buying a new one and returning this burned in one with the new receipt



I would give it a few more days if you have time. From what people have told me is that it could take time for IR to disappear.


How many days do you have left to exchange/return the TV? Where did you buy it from?


Image Retention and Burn-in scares me a lot with plasma's. Wish there was a way that it could go away and never be an issue. LOL!


----------



## excelit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agogley* /forum/post/19787570
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf
> 
> 
> "First, while image retention can occur in modern plasmas, the effect is temporary.
> 
> After the 48-hour torture test, all three of the plasma TVs that were tested showed
> 
> clearly visible images from the game menu, whereas none of the LCD or MD rearprojection-
> 
> based sets showed any image retention. However, after regular video
> 
> material (a DVD movie set to continuously loop) was played through the sets for 24
> 
> hours, the image completely disappeared from all three plasmas, leaving no trace.
> 
> Unlike early generation plasmas, where those type of images would not go away and
> 
> could actually "burn" onto the screen, modern plasma TVs enjoy a combination of
> 
> more robust screen materials and subtle image-shifting technologies that have
> 
> rendered this former issue moot."
> 
> 
> "Key Takeaway - Central to this test is the acknowledgement that our demonstration
> 
> was an extreme scenario that few consumers would ever experience with their
> 
> televisions. Most potential buyers scared off by the notion of plasma "burn-in" are
> 
> more focused on the damage caused while pausing a football game or their favorite
> 
> show on TiVo for a few minutes while running around the house. Our tests show that
> 
> current plasma technology can tolerate a full 48-hour session on pause, and then
> 
> resume its original state with no permanent effects after a 24-hour video loop. Thus,
> 
> while it is unlikely that a consumer of a current generation (or later) plasma TV will
> 
> even notice any image retention caused by 5 or 10 or even 60 minutes on pause, it is
> 
> most definite that any such image retention will disappear over the course of
> 
> subsequent TV watching."



Nobody should take comfort in this "white paper", it was produced by a company with vested interest in promoting plasma. Furthermore, no plasma manufacturer warranties against burn-in. Take these two facts together and it is reasonable to conclude that burn in is still an issue.

Having said that, I'm breaking in my tv with a mixture of full screen TV and movies, avoid HUD for more than 30 minutes per 3 hours, set contrast and brightness to 50 and run the break in slides at least an hour a day with contrast and brightness set at 95. And finally run the scroll for 15 minutes at the end of the day.

What I won't do is stare 6 inches away from the screen and look for IR.


----------



## ihavethetools

Getting my PN50C590 Thursday. My question is, when i first fire it up, is it in the "torch" mode ? How will i know ? My first HDTV of any kind and don't want to mess it up the very first day. I plan on watching it a little in the evening and then run the break-in slides through the night and next day. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks !!!


----------



## Dutch3

I am new to plasma tv's. I just hooked up a Samsung PN58C550 yesterday(1-16-2011). Do I need to do any to my television. I see some people talking about burn in. Please advise.


Thank you


----------



## johnnyhanson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dutch3* /forum/post/19846798
> 
> 
> I am new to plasma tv's. I just hooked up a Samsung PN58C550 yesterday(1-16-2011). Do I need to do any to my television. I see some people talking about burn in. Please advise.
> 
> 
> Thank you



for the first 150-200 hrs, you want to run the Break-in DVD http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


You should make sure to turn down the contrast and brightness of the TV during this time. When you watch TV, try to watch full-screen 16:9 content and avoid long periods of watching 4:3 material and shows with tickers (sports). Best advice is just switch up your viewing.


----------



## GraveRobberX

I read the FAQ's, I'm still confused by the "Break-In"


What should I look out for?


I just bought a TC-P65VT25. I have used 3D on it, even gamed on my PS3 in 3D.

(Maybe 15-30 minutes tops), what should I be scared of.


I downloaded the 20 color pics, gonna add them to a SD card, then what?


Leave the TV running on high contrast & brightness (95 I read) for the whole night for 100+ hours? doesn't that hurt the TV?


I though the less you viewed your TV, the less risk of burn-in, now it's the complete opposite...WTF!?


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GraveRobberX* /forum/post/19850516
> 
> 
> I read the FAQ's, I'm still confused by the "Break-In"
> 
> 
> What should I look out for?
> 
> 
> I just bought a TC-P65VT25. I have used 3D on it, even gamed on my PS3 in 3D.
> 
> (Maybe 15-30 minutes tops), what should I be scared of.
> 
> 
> I downloaded the 20 color pics, gonna add them to a SD card, then what?
> 
> 
> Leave the TV running on high contrast & brightness (95 I read) for the whole night for 100+ hours? doesn't that hurt the TV?
> 
> 
> I though the less you viewed your TV, the less risk of burn-in, now it's the complete opposite...WTF!?



True, if you do not use your TV at all, there is no risk of burn-in.


The issue is not "burn-in" but rather pixel aging. It is simple: you want to evenly age the pixels across the field. When the screen is new, the effects of uneven aging are more pronounced. Thus, the suggestion to pay attenion to the issue during the first 150 - 200 hours. You do not have to change the picture settings. Just run your color slides overnight using the slideshow for a week or so, and avoid content with bars (pillars or letterbox) during this period. No problem watching normal content during the break-in, just avoid the bars. You should not be "scared" of anything. Just use common sense and enjoy your new tv.


----------



## johnnyhanson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GraveRobberX* /forum/post/19850516
> 
> 
> I read the FAQ's, I'm still confused by the "Break-In"
> 
> 
> What should I look out for?
> 
> 
> I just bought a TC-P65VT25. I have used 3D on it, even gamed on my PS3 in 3D.
> 
> (Maybe 15-30 minutes tops), what should I be scared of.
> 
> 
> I downloaded the 20 color pics, gonna add them to a SD card, then what?
> 
> 
> Leave the TV running on high contrast & brightness (95 I read) for the whole night for 100+ hours? doesn't that hurt the TV?
> 
> 
> I though the less you viewed your TV, the less risk of burn-in, now it's the complete opposite...WTF!?



Most people recommend you turn the brightness and constrast down below 50 while breaking in the TV


----------



## Noots

Ok, plasma noob here. Just got my 50 inch GT25 delivered. I have a couple of quick questions, hopefully not too redundant from what I've read here. First:


-I've connected it to the stand, plugged it in and have it place in my living room.

-I'm going to let it sit there and return to room temp for a few hours. It's cold here.

-Tonight, I'm going to turn it on. Yeah!

-I have d/l the break in images (20 of 'em).


Two areas of questioning:

1. I can save these to a thumb drive (they're .jpg) and put them in and will the tv scroll through them somehow like a PPT slideshow? how does that happen? Now, I read that for the purpose of this, I need to use the settings with photo mode, Bright 100, 50 contrast, etc. Right?


2. I also read on here that I can start watching the TV, especially some blurays (would love to watch Lord of the Rings tonight). I just need to be conscious of things like bars and logos if I actually watch regular tv. If all that is true, do I use the G20/25 settings I read on here earlier, including THX mode, or should I have it on some other setting?


Thank you,


Noots


----------



## zakdaripper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noots* /forum/post/19858023
> 
> 
> Ok, plasma noob here. Just got my 50 inch GT25 delivered. I have a couple of quick questions, hopefully not too redundant from what I've read here. First:
> 
> 
> -I've connected it to the stand, plugged it in and have it place in my living room.
> 
> -I'm going to let it sit there and return to room temp for a few hours. It's cold here.
> 
> -Tonight, I'm going to turn it on. Yeah!
> 
> -I have d/l the break in images (20 of 'em).
> 
> 
> Two areas of questioning:
> 
> 1. I can save these to a thumb drive (they're .jpg) and put them in and will the tv scroll through them somehow like a PPT slideshow? how does that happen? Now, I read that for the purpose of this, I need to use the settings with photo mode, Bright 100, 50 contrast, etc. Right?
> 
> 
> 2. I also read on here that I can start watching the TV, especially some blurays (would love to watch Lord of the Rings tonight). I just need to be conscious of things like bars and logos if I actually watch regular tv. If all that is true, do I use the G20/25 settings I read on here earlier, including THX mode, or should I have it on some other setting?
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> Noots



I too am a plasma noob and got the same TV as you this past Monday.


1. Plug the USB drive into your TV and hit Vierra Tools on your remote. Then select Media Player and you should see an option for photos. Hit ok on the remote and you will see the break in slides. Simply hit the red button on the remote to start the slideshow. Once you start the slideshow you can go into the menu to set up the picture settings in Photo mode. You also have the option of changing the slideshow settings to slow within the photo settings menu.


2. Keep in mind the settings for the G20/25 aren't for the GT25. I know they are similar panels but they are not identical. I'm watching my blu-rays and HD programming on THX mode for now. I simply turned down the brightness and contrast below 50. Honestly, it looks pretty darn good out of the box without touching any picture settings. I am also trying to avoid black bars and logos which can be tricky. When I watch blu-rays I am using the "zoom" format to avoid the black bars until it's "broken in".


----------



## Noots

Thanks man. Doing the same thing as far as using Zoom to watch movies. Regarding the setting, am wondering what settings to use then. Will search around and see if there are any goodies out there that anyone has for this.


----------



## Legoheads

I have asked this earlier in the thread, but never received any feedback so here we go again...


Why does DNice recommend breaking-in the phosphors (using slides) with the color temperature set to COOL knowing the set will ultimately be calibrated to a Warm setting?


Is the theory that the lumen output increases when the TV is set to COOL so the phosphors are driven harder thus making the break-in more effective?


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Legoheads* /forum/post/19870357
> 
> 
> I have asked this earlier in the thread, but never received any feedback so here we go again...
> 
> 
> Why does DNice recommend breaking-in the phosphors (using slides) with the color temperature set to COOL knowing the set will ultimately be calibrated to a Warm setting?
> 
> 
> Is the theory that the lumen output increases when the TV is set to COOL so the phosphors are driven harder thus making the break-in more effective?



and Faster!


----------



## bigmac31391

Hint: It is a good idea to set (at least the vt25) the ECO in the menu to have it shut the tv off after 10min. with no input and after 3 hours of no activity in case you fall asleep or whatever !


----------



## bigmac31391

Hello All , Help Please, I have a new panny 54 vt25 and I am running the slides off of a usb flash drive. Also, I am using D-nices Photo Mode Settings in doing so. I want to have an in-home calibration done. Am I doing this right or should I use a different Picture Mode? Thanks!


----------



## ghgoldberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* /forum/post/19872995
> 
> 
> Hello All , Help Please, I have a new panny 54 vt25 and I am running the slides off of a usb flash drive. Also, I am using D-nices Photo Mode Settings in doing so. I want to have an in-home calibration done. Am I doing this right or should I use a different Picture Mode? Thanks!



That's fine. You can also watch program content, but stay away from bars during the first 150-200 hours (use zoom as required). For viewing programming, THX mode is best in apperence and is gentler on the panel. With that tv, you will be awed by the results of the calibration.


----------



## Blockburner28

I plan on getting another Samsung c550. Does image retention happen after you break it in? Or should it go away for good? Thanks in advance


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blockburner28* /forum/post/19894911
> 
> 
> I plan on getting another Samsung c550. Does image retention happen after you break it in? Or should it go away for good? Thanks in advance



It is safe to assume that image retention will happen even after the plasma TV is broken in. Image retention will be less noticeable however since images won't be retained as easily and will go away more quickly once the TV has many hours on it.


----------



## cm1014

Hi all,

I just purchased my first plasma (Samsung PN50C550). I've downloaded two sets of break in slides that have been recommended on here. Both of them leave a row of 2 pixels around the outer edge of the screen. I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread or not but if someone could help out that would be great. I really would like to run these but not if this small line around the edge won't be getting the same treatment. I've tried zooming and everything else I believe you can do. Has anyone else noticed this with the slides. It took me a while to realize it because it is such a small line but I'd still like it if the slides took up the whole screen.


Any advice?


Thanks


----------



## dmwiley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cm1014* /forum/post/19899077
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just purchased my first plasma (Samsung PN50C550). I've downloaded two sets of break in slides that have been recommended on here. Both of them leave a row of 2 pixels around the outer edge of the screen. I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread or not but if someone could help out that would be great. I really would like to run these but not if this small line around the edge won't be getting the same treatment. I've tried zooming and everything else I believe you can do. Has anyone else noticed this with the slides. It took me a while to realize it because it is such a small line but I'd still like it if the slides took up the whole screen.
> 
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> 
> Thanks



You don't need to bother with break-in slides. Just watch full screen content without channel logos.


----------



## Legoheads

cm1014,

Instead of running the slides using the built-in USB you could burn the images to a DVD and run it from a player instead. This should resolve your concern about the inactive pixels around the border.

Windows DVD Maker (free on vista and 7) does a decent job of patching together a functioning break-in movie.

I made the mistake of running my new PN50C450 for 12 hours in the USB mode and I definitely had some significant IR to work out along the entire left hand side. Fortunately for me the scrolling wipe seems to have cleared it all out. Phew!


----------



## Blockburner28

How bad does Image Retention happen in the samsung 50 inch 3d tv c6800?


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Can I break-in my plasma by just playing Planet Earth over and over with Contrast-50 and Brightness-50? I'll be in the room studying so I can have it in the background.


I don't want to download that break-in DVD and I'm definitely not buying it for $40.


BTW, if it matters, the TV is a GT25.


Update: Okay, I read some posts saying it's okay to watch full-screen content. Planet Eart is full-screen, but I was told I needed to change the content up. Apparently, I need to throw in SD, HD, and random white wash content all together. Would it be bad to just do the one Blu-Ray?


----------



## fairchild99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19939683
> 
> 
> Can I break-in my plasma by just playing Planet Earth over and over with Contrast-50 and Brightness-50? I'll be in the room studying so I can have it in the background.
> 
> 
> I don't want to download that break-in DVD and I'm definitely not buying it for $40.
> 
> 
> BTW, if it matters, the TV is a GT25.
> 
> 
> Update: Okay, I read some posts saying it's okay to watch full-screen content. Planet Eart is full-screen, but I was told I needed to change the content up. Apparently, I need to throw in SD, HD, and random white wash content all together. Would it be bad to just do the one Blu-Ray?



That's the reason the break-in disc is nice because it is going to evenly age all the phosphors by tossing all the different colors.


If you can put on a channel that fills the whole screen and doesn't have an annoying logo that would work too. (since that channel will be showing different content) The problem with playing a certain disc over is that the content potentially isn't going to use all the phosphors evenly.


Also, if your TV has USB or SD, you could also download the slides and play them without having to download and burn a DVD.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19939683
> 
> 
> Can I break-in my plasma by just playing Planet Earth over and over with Contrast-50 and Brightness-50? I'll be in the room studying so I can have it in the background.
> 
> 
> I don't want to download that break-in DVD and I'm definitely not buying it for $40.
> 
> 
> BTW, if it matters, the TV is a GT25.
> 
> 
> Update: Okay, I read some posts saying it's okay to watch full-screen content. Planet Eart is full-screen, but I was told I needed to change the content up. Apparently, I need to throw in SD, HD, and random white wash content all together. Would it be bad to just do the one Blu-Ray?



Do this and you'll be just fine. Running SD, HD and white wash won't hurt anything but you'll be fine with Planet Earth.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fairchild99* /forum/post/19940021
> 
> 
> That's the reason the break-in disc is nice because it is going to evenly age all the phosphors by tossing all the different colors.



I'm really curious if this is an issue. All the phosphors have the three colors red, green, and blue. As long as color is randomly changing across the screen, they should expose the three colors at some point pretty evenly.


I'm not acting like I know anything about tv's. Just trying to think it out.


I'm more worried about my black levels since it's widely accepted that Panasonic models fade over time...


BTW, when this break-in period is over, _what am I allowed to do?_ How much can I push the THX image? We get so much info on breaking the TV in and preventing burn-in but we never hear about the limits afterwards. I'd like to think I can push it to the breaking point with maximum contrast and brightness (for 3D).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/19940472
> 
> 
> Do this and you'll be just fine. Running SD, HD and white wash won't hurt anything but you'll be fine with Planet Earth.



I have other movies to watch... and Netflix. Planet Earth will just be in the background when studying. Don't worry, no black bars or static images.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19940555
> 
> 
> I'm more worried about my black levels since it's widely accepted that Panasonic models fade over time...
> 
> 
> BTW, when this break-in period is over, _what am I allowed to do?_ How much can I push the THX image? We get so much info on breaking the TV in and preventing burn-in but we never hear about the limits afterwards. I'd like to think I can push it to the breaking point with maximum contrast and brightness (for 3D).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have other movies to watch... and Netflix. Planet Earth will just be in the background when studying. Don't worry, no black bars or static images.



I have 2006 and 2009 model Panasonic plasmas. I have not taken measurements but there has not been any noticeable degradation in black level performance in either set. I realize this is not the case for everyone.


After break-in is complete feel free to do anything you want with the settings, push it to the limits if you desire. Don't get obsessed about a little IR, it happens with all plasmas but is generally not visible with normal viewing. You can usually only see it by looking up close on a solid screen, even then it fades quickly. Enjoy your new TV.


----------



## Terpsfan1

Have a new month old samsung tv PN58C7000 that I love but am concerned about image retention. I originally bought the floor model from hhgregg but it turned out it had burn in of the espn scroll because they left that on continually for days. They replaced it with a new TV so I have been conscious of this problem and not leaving channels like this on for too long. Last night I thought I noticed the E from ESPN so I was very worried. this TV has burn protection functions like pixel moving and scrolling (which I ran last night). It was still there this morning but when I got home from work I didn't notice it as much. Question: 1. what are the ideal settings to avoid IR/burn in for this TV and 2. Does anyone know if aftermarket items sold from pixelprotector or fixburnin.com work to maintain and resolve this issue or are there others that are better? Thanks


----------



## dmwiley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Terpsfan1* /forum/post/19942371
> 
> 
> Have a new month old samsung tv PN58C7000 that I love but am concerned about image retention. I originally bought the floor model from hhgregg but it turned out it had burn in of the espn scroll because they left that on continually for days. They replaced it with a new TV so I have been conscious of this problem and not leaving channels like this on for too long. Last night I thought I noticed the E from ESPN so I was very worried. this TV has burn protection functions like pixel moving and scrolling (which I ran last night). It was still there this morning but when I got home from work I didn't notice it as much. Question: 1. what are the ideal settings to avoid IR/burn in for this TV and 2. Does anyone know if aftermarket items sold from pixelprotector or fixburnin.com work to maintain and resolve this issue or are there others that are better? Thanks



Pixelprotector is an excellent product. If it can't get rid of IR, your set has burn in.


----------



## ranicete79

Hello, I am fairly new here so please bear with me. Anyhow, here's my story:


I just bought the Samsung PN58C8000 on 2/1/11 and after reading many of the post in this entire thread, it has left me with more questions. I did download the 1080 images and started my break-in process last night using low settings (Cell light = 8, Contrast = 50, Brightness = 45 Sharpness = 0 and all image enhancers = Off). I have two questions, if I do this continually for 16 hours a day (when at work and asleep at night) and threw in some watching of mixed content until Sunday, could I watch the Super Bowl at Standard settings (Contrast = 90 and Cell Light = 12)?


Also, noticed that the TV buzzes (like a bug zapper) when I'm closely listening behind the TV, not so much when in front and I can't hear it from 6 feet away (maybe very distinctively). I went behind my LCD and checked to see if it does this and there is no sound whatsover. I have read from reviews at Amazon and Best buy that a few people has experienced it. But there review sounds more severe that what I was hearing from my panel. I guess it's different, case by case. Is this normal for a Plasma to buzz like that while it's on?


----------



## Mastperf

Samsung Plasmas have buzzing on some sets. It isn't considered a defect by Samsung. You could try to exchange it for another but it is a risk as you might get a louder buzz or other defects. If it is too irritating then maybe you might want to risk a replacement. Did you buy it in-store or off line? It wouldn't be back in time for the game if it has to be shipped.

If it was from a regular retailer with a good return policy, then exchange until *you* are satisfied.


----------



## zakdaripper

I recently got a Panasonic GT25 which now has over 300 hours on it. I watched Cartoon Network this morning for about 45 minutes with contrast below 50 on THX mode. Shortly after, I turned on my PS3 and noticed the "CN" logo ghosted on the bottom right of my panel. It will not go away. I have tried to run the pixel flipper on the WoW disc and break in slides to no avail. I sure hope this isn't permanent burn in. How long does this take to go away before I should get concerned? Any suggestion to get rid of this?


----------



## Mastperf

From what I hear, the Cartoon Network logo is always a problem with IR. I would say it's highly unlikely to be burn-in. Try running a bright movie (like a cartoon or Pixar movie) and that should probably take most of it away. If you have these on DVD or Blu-Ray (no on-screen logos) try putting the TV in Vivid or whatever the Panasonic uses while the movie is running. Just remember to take it off of Vivid when you're finished and make sure not to leave with it running in case it stops and leaves something stationary on-screen while in Vivid.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zakdaripper* /forum/post/19957145
> 
> 
> I recently got a Panasonic GT25 which now has over 300 hours on it. I watched Cartoon Network this morning for about 45 minutes with contrast below 50 on THX mode. Shortly after, I turned on my PS3 and noticed the "CN" logo ghosted on the bottom right of my panel. It will not go away. I have tried to run the pixel flipper on the WoW disc and break in slides to no avail. I sure hope this isn't permanent burn in. How long does this take to go away before I should get concerned? Any suggestion to get rid of this?



Man, these stories about IR are really bothering me. I'm on hour 26 of break in and it sucks having in the back of your mind that your TV can get burn in from standard features like 1:2.4 ratio movies and videogames.


It's really no wonder LCD is taking over. Yeah, the screen may be beautiful on these plasmas, but it's just too much work/worry to watch them.


I haven't had any issues yet... except for the fact that I have to check every aspect ratio of any movie I watch, stay away from watching any broadcast television, and not play my PS3/360. _*Those are the reasons I bought the TV...*_


I see now why LCD is the primary market for HDTVs.


Sigh... 225 more hours to go until I can actually use my TV to its better potential.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Another thing I wanted to talk about was the failure rate of Panasonic Plasma TVs. People always tell stories about how, shortly after they purchase the TV, it just fails. That's obviously a bad thing, right?


Well, parallel to that story is the massive amounts of people who break in their TV using these DVDs that play 24 hours per day.


Could these stories be linked? Maybe it's the people who leave their TV on all day and night while they're working/sleeping who kill their sets.


Now, I know that TVs stay on all the time in stores and homes already but taking the plasma to it's limit just to hit 250 hours might be a reason for a higher failure rate. Just a thought.


So it may be _*bad*_ to play these DVDs constantly to get that break in period over quickly.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19959982
> 
> 
> Another thing I wanted to talk about was the failure rate of Panasonic Plasma TVs. People always tell stories about how, shortly after they purchase the TV, it just fails. That's obviously a bad thing, right?
> 
> 
> Well, parallel to that story is the massive amounts of people who break in their TV using these DVDs that play 24 hours per day.
> 
> 
> Could these stories be linked? Maybe it's the people who leave their TV on all day and night while they're working/sleeping who kill their sets.
> 
> 
> Now, I know that TVs stay on all the time in stores and homes already but taking the plasma to it's limit just to hit 250 hours might be a reason for a higher failure rate. Just a thought.
> 
> 
> So it may be _*bad*_ to play these DVDs constantly to get that break in period over quickly.



I'm not sure what this is about. According to Consumer Reports, Panasonic has the absolute lowest failure rate of all brands of Plasma and LCD, 2% for both technologies. Most other brands fail at a rate of 3% and up.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19959968
> 
> 
> Man, these stories about IR are really bothering me. I'm on hour 26 of break in and it sucks having in the back of your mind that your TV can get burn in from standard features like 1:2.4 ratio movies and videogames.
> 
> 
> It's really no wonder LCD is taking over. Yeah, the screen may be beautiful on these plasmas, but it's just too much work/worry to watch them.
> 
> 
> I haven't had any issues yet... except for the fact that I have to check every aspect ratio of any movie I watch, stay away from watching any broadcast television, and not play my PS3/360. _*Those are the reasons I bought the TV...*_
> 
> 
> I see now why LCD is the primary market for HDTVs.
> 
> 
> Sigh... 225 more hours to go until I can actually use my TV to its better potential.



People get a little OCD about the IR issue, it is really not a huge deal. After break-in feel free to do anything you want with your plasma. There will be a little IR but so what, it goes away quickly and is not visible with normal viewing. Watch all the movies with black bars you want, play video games to your heart's content. All I did to break in my plasmas was run at about 50% brightness and contrast for the first 50 hours. After that I threw caution to the wind. Neither my 2006 plasma nor my 2009 plasma suffered for it. Enjoy your TV.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/19960473
> 
> 
> People get a little OCD about the IR issue, it is really not a huge deal. After break-in feel free to do anything you want with your plasma. There will be a little IR but so what, it goes away quickly and is not visible with normal viewing. Watch all the movies with black bars you want, play video games to your heart's content. All I did to break in my plasmas was run at about 50% brightness and contrast for the first 50 hours. After that I threw caution to the wind. Neither my 2006 plasma nor my 2009 plasma suffered for it. Enjoy your TV.



Is it bad to play like maybe 15 minutes or so of 3D or videogames once a day (or once every other day)? Because every now and then, I just really get this urge to just see the TV at it's full potential. So, I'll play a few minutes of a 3D movie on maxed out contrast and brightness levels.


Does that do anything to the break in period?


----------



## artur323

I just saw a little IR from dishnetworks guide. My VT25 has the logo from Dish on the left upper corner. Any suggestions to remove that will be greatly appreciated. It is going away. But not everything is gone. I did follow the break in with the different colors for maybe 50 hours. Should I just lower contrast and brightness to 50 and watch for another 50 hours? Thanks


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/19961435
> 
> 
> Is it bad to play like maybe 15 minutes or so of 3D or videogames once a day (or once every other day)? Because every now and then, I just really get this urge to just see the TV at it's full potential. So, I'll play a few minutes of a 3D movie on maxed out contrast and brightness levels.
> 
> 
> Does that do anything to the break in period?



Just use it with a little caution early on. Plasma is nowhere near as fragile as some would lead you to believe. Play games if you want and just make sure to run other full-screen content with no static images while you aren't playing. If you get some image retention that's hard to get rid of, just put on a bright cartoon or CGI(Pixar) movie and set the picture mode to Vivid or whatever your set uses while playing the movie. Make sure the movie/cartoon doesn't have any logos (like Cartoon Network).

Play games and watch movies...it's what they're made for.


----------



## siwon

I find my c2 has more prominent greens the more i run my slides and i cannot seem to get rid of it while using my regular hd, i hope its not damaging anything or is this part of the aging process???


its starting to really annoy me


----------



## Brisco County




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cm1014* /forum/post/19899077
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just purchased my first plasma (Samsung PN50C550). I've downloaded two sets of break in slides that have been recommended on here. Both of them leave a row of 2 pixels around the outer edge of the screen. I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread or not but if someone could help out that would be great. I really would like to run these but not if this small line around the edge won't be getting the same treatment. I've tried zooming and everything else I believe you can do. Has anyone else noticed this with the slides. It took me a while to realize it because it is such a small line but I'd still like it if the slides took up the whole screen.
> 
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Just got a 550 myself, and wanted to start the break-in slides, but there are two rows of pixels on the perimeter that get left out, and no option seems to change that. Seems kinda weird.


----------



## anthonyl

Need advise for my 3 month old Samsung PN63C8000. I was watching a TV show this evening when I noticed a constant shadow at the top of the screen. Closer inspection revealed that it was the MSNBC banner. My wife and I watch MSNBC quite a bit, and it appears that the MSNBC banner has burned into the top, maybe its IR, I don't know. I had noticed that several of the evening programs on MSNBC use the same banner with a brilliant white background, but I didn't think it would be a problem for the set. Is it too late to run that burn-in DVD that is posted at the top of this thread?


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Great.


So today I came home and turned on my TV. A notice popped up on screen that the auto shut-off was activated because of no signal. So somehow, the TV was turned on during the day. Talk about p*ssed off... Well regardless, this should be a 15 minute deal...


So first thing's first... I notice that the picture quality was diminished but assumed that was just me being paranoid. But then hours later (after watching a bunch of different HD shows), I ran the scrolling bar. I really notice a difference behind the white... it's like a faint shadow of black in the background. Hard to explain but definitely noticable...


So a couple of things that really tick me off. There should be options to create auto shut off at 5 minutes no signal and 30 minutes no interaction with the controller (15 min/3 hrs is way too long). That's bs that there isn't any other options. Also, it doesn't make since that a black screen can cause burn in... The pixels are inactivated... How could they possibly remember a color that they aren't even expressing?


So from now on, I'm going to have to cut the power supply when I'm not home. I have no idea what happened to turn this TV on, but I'm definitely not happy about it.


----------



## dmwiley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthonyl* /forum/post/19975688
> 
> 
> Need advise for my 3 month old Samsung PN63C8000. I was watching a TV show this evening when I noticed a constant shadow at the top of the screen. Closer inspection revealed that it was the MSNBC banner. My wife and I watch MSNBC quite a bit, and it appears that the MSNBC banner has burned into the top, maybe its IR, I don't know. I had noticed that several of the evening programs on MSNBC use the same banner with a brilliant white background, but I didn't think it would be a problem for the set. Is it too late to run that burn-in DVD that is posted at the top of this thread?



No. It's not too late. Hopefully you have only IR. I am really sorry for your difficulties and I find myself even more disturbed by people in this forum who continue to maintain that IR and burn in are no longer issues with the new plasmas. Once you get rid of IR, you may want to set up your TV using the 16:9 screen size instead of screen fill which disables the wobble technology. You might also consider picking up a copy of Pixelprotector. Good luck.


----------



## Brisco County

Quote:

Originally Posted by *cm1014* 
Hi all,

I just purchased my first plasma (Samsung PN50C550). I've downloaded two sets of break in slides that have been recommended on here. Both of them leave a row of 2 pixels around the outer edge of the screen. I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread or not but if someone could help out that would be great. I really would like to run these but not if this small line around the edge won't be getting the same treatment. I've tried zooming and everything else I believe you can do. Has anyone else noticed this with the slides. It took me a while to realize it because it is such a small line but I'd still like it if the slides took up the whole screen.


Any advice?


Thanks
Well, I never did find the cause of this issue, but I did find a way around it. I downloaded a free slideshow program that took the 120 slides and used them to form a video that the media player can loop. I set the slides to transition every 15 seconds, and the program spit out a 30 minute AVI file that completely fills the screen. The transitions in the video also keep the screen from going to black after every slide. Very happy that I can do the break-in without running a DVD player for hours on end.


----------



## anthonyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dmwiley* 
No. It's not too late. Hopefully you have only IR. I am really sorry for your difficulties and I find myself even more disturbed by people in this forum who continue to maintain that IR and burn in are no longer issues with the new plasmas. Once you get rid of IR, you may want to set up your TV using the 16:9 screen size instead of screen fill which disables the wobble technology. You might also consider picking up a copy of Pixelprotector. Good luck.
Thanks for the response and helpful comment. I currently am running the CD referenced and provided in the first message of this thread. After about four or five hours, I noticed a very small improvement on one of the colors (red) in the slide, but it is still prominent in the white and green slides; I will continue to run the images all day, I guess. I will look into Pixelprotector, too.


Yes, the ease in which my TV has developed this shadow is quite distressing. We may have to limit use of this TV to movies and those TV shows that don't show banners or the corner images.


----------



## zakdaripper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthonyl* /forum/post/19977144
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response and helpful comment. I currently am running the CD referenced and provided in the first message of this thread. After about four or five hours, I noticed a very small improvement on one of the colors (red) in the slide, but it is still prominent in the white and green slides; I will continue to run the images all day, I guess. I will look into Pixelprotector, too.
> 
> 
> Yes, the ease in which my TV has developed this shadow is quite distressing. We may have to limit use of this TV to movies and those TV shows that don't show banners or the corner images.



My new Panasonic developed bad IR from the Cartoon Network logo (non transparent black & white) after watching it for less than an hour. It has been 4 days but I can still see the "CN" on white & green slides as well. Thankfully it seems to have have improved. It sounds like IR is worse on 3D plasmas as they typically use a different phosphor. Here is a quote on a review of my plasma:


"The new phosphor gave us some minor image retention. We concluded, based on the VT25/VT20 review, that Panasonic's new phosphor on the 3D models has more retention and this was supported by our recent Samsung C8000 review."


----------



## Paul_A/V

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Brisco County* 
Well, I never did find the cause of this issue, but I did find a way around it. I downloaded a free slideshow program that took the 120 slides and used them to form a video that the media player can loop. I set the slides to transition every 15 seconds, and the program spit out a 30 minute AVI file that completely fills the screen. The transitions in the video also keep the screen from going to black after every slide. Very happy that I can do the break-in without running a DVD player for hours on end.
Do you plan to make that AVI file available to the public? Please would you?


----------



## sheshechic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Paul_A/V* /forum/post/19983681
> 
> 
> Do you plan to make that AVI file available to the public? Please would you?



Pretty please Brisco?


----------



## Brisco County




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Paul_A/V* /forum/post/19983681
> 
> 
> Do you plan to make that AVI file available to the public? Please would you?



I honestly wouldn't even know how to go about hosting it. It was super easy to make, though - I simply downloaded the first thing that popped up on a Goggle search (in my case, "Photostage Slideshow Producer"). I then loaded the set of 120 JPEGs listed earlier in the thread, set the default transition time to 15 seconds, and that was it. The program spit out the video file (default was AVI, but there were a bunch of other options), which I then copied to a USB drive. 120 slides, at 15 seconds each, resulted in a 30 minute video file that the TV's media player can simply loop over and over. The whole endeavor took less than five minutes, and I'm someone who probably wouldn't be considered very computer savvy by today's standards.


----------



## Cdog11

I'm new to the plasma world and wondering if you guys can help me I recently bought a samsung pn50c8000 plasma and put the slides (120v) on my USB but before starting the slides what Picture setting should I use I was thinking standard and keeping my brightness and contrast on 45 and put the color tone to cool also is running the slides at normal speed is ok


----------



## Dayton

I say to run the slides under your normal viewing settings. However, running the slides under a Vivid mode is a nice way to speed up the removal of a retained image.


----------



## franky932

AFTER 2718 posts OF THAT i read....... i was suppose to buy


plasma........i think i will change idea:


1.:300 -400 hours break in(burn in?) (slide , special video etc etc)


2.:always have to do this and that after gaming or watching (wash out and so on , etc etc)


16:9 (amargophic) or 4:3 content.


3.:and after all these posts there all some that have permanent burn ot take a week to take off IR.
*

hey it is TV...........always check this and that.*

*and is it possible after all these post that 94% in Panasonic? the most that have problem?*


btw it is not my first post :i have to register again.......


thanks


----------



## SixString

I have a PG550 (50") I got 9 months ago. I went through all the "anti-burn-in" procedures: making a burn-in disc and cycling through all the colors for about a hundred hours, not watching 4:3 stuff for the first month or so, not leaving menus up, etc.


Recently, I've noticed a definite burn-in sidebar on the right side of the display, probably from my daughter watching 4:3 cartoons. (Unfortunately, those are actually broadcast as 16:9 but with black sidebars, so enabling gray sidebars on my Tivo doesn't help.) The weirdest thing is that it is only on the right side of the display. Although you can tell there is some brightening on the left, it's not nearly as distinct (and annoying) as on the right, where you could use it as a straight-edge.


First, I thought modern plasmas had overcome this kind of problem, with proper burn-in. No?


Second, why only on the right?


Third (most important), is there anything I can do about it? None of the washes have any effect.


Thanks.


----------



## Mastperf

I was using the built-in music visualizer on the Xbox 360 to help with the break in process but noticed that it isn't actually full screen. The very top is missing about 3 or 4 rows of pixels. Be sure not to use it, guys.


----------



## anthonyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zakdaripper* /forum/post/19977941
> 
> 
> My new Panasonic developed bad IR from the Cartoon Network logo (non transparent black & white) after watching it for less than an hour. It has been 4 days but I can still see the "CN" on white & green slides as well. Thankfully it seems to have have improved. It sounds like IR is worse on 3D plasmas as they typically use a different phosphor. Here is a quote on a review of my plasma:
> 
> 
> "The new phosphor gave us some minor image retention. We concluded, based on the VT25/VT20 review, that Panasonic's new phosphor on the 3D models has more retention and this was supported by our recent Samsung C8000 review."



Update: I've been running the slides on my Samsung 8000 for a bit over 5 days now. The ghost image remains very prominent on the green slide and a little less clear on the white slide - the slides *may* have helped a little, I'm not sure. If the ghost image is still present after day 5, I might resort to switching the display mode to vivid (or its equivalent in the Samsung).


----------



## AllanMarcus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *optivity* /forum/post/12692155
> 
> 
> Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some _insane_ reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective*_



ummm, you recommend 100 of basic burn in, then 900 more hours are careful views! Yikes!


How in the world do I measure 1000 hours?


Thanks,


Allan


----------



## Anubys




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AllanMarcus* /forum/post/20009379
> 
> 
> ummm, you recommend 100 of basic burn in, then 900 more hours are careful views! Yikes!
> 
> 
> How in the world do I measure 1000 hours?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Allan



the menu has the hours, IIRC...


----------



## Cdog11

My service menu on my c8000 said I have 77 hrs display time but I know I have at least 110 what gives please help


----------



## NickSP

Plasma will still have burn in and IR. Here are some myths:


- Nwere plasmas do not have these issues

- PLaying DVDs or other methods for countless hours help to reduce it


Plasmas today has as much IR and burn in issues as plasmas before them. I love the plasma picture to the point I have become paranoid. LOL. I run my picture slides every day before I go to sleep.


Cartoon Network is the biggest culprit of them all. I had a CN logo from my son watching it for an hour or less every other day. The problem I figured was he was watching it through a DVR and was switching commercials. If you let commercials play, they will ease this somewhat.


I ran my color slides for a whole 12 hours, followed by snow and it did get rid of the CN logo.


----------



## NickSP

How about all of us Plasma owners form a petition and send it to these idiotic TV channels to at least move their logos every couple of seconds from the right to the left corner or something? Or move their banners from top to bottom or have translusent logos like TNT or HGTV?


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20026838
> 
> 
> Plasma will still have burn in and IR. Here are some myths:
> 
> 
> - Nwere plasmas do not have these issues
> 
> - PLaying DVDs or other methods for countless hours help to reduce it
> 
> 
> Plasmas today has as much IR and burn in issues as plasmas before them. I love the plasma picture to the point I have become paranoid. LOL. I run my picture slides every day before I go to sleep.
> 
> 
> Cartoon Network is the biggest culprit of them all. I had a CN logo from my son watching it for an hour or less every other day. The problem I figured was he was watching it through a DVR and was switching commercials. If you let commercials play, they will ease this somewhat.
> 
> 
> I ran my color slides for a whole 12 hours, followed by snow and it did get rid of the CN logo.




i agree .......whe buy HDTV for viewing.......not working for..............................


----------



## pr0nstarz

I left an options menu on Halo Reach on my display for 12 hours (long story). Most of it is in white..


I changed inputs to a source that isn't hooked up. Yeah it was quite there.


I put on National Geographic for about 2 minutes..checked again...gone.


Don't care what the pundits and naysayers wanna gripe about, actions speak louder than words.


Oh and mind you, this set has under 200 hours on it.


----------



## the skeptik

This is why I don't buy or recommend plasma. I have made only a handful of posts but they get ripped to shreds on here and I end up being called a liar. Burn in and IR STILL is a problem with plasmas for people with certain viewing habits. 900 hours of break in? What a joke. I love the PQ of a good plasma but they are just too much work. Like others have said, a tv is for enjoyment, not for more work.


----------



## calvin35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pr0nstarz* /forum/post/20036097
> 
> 
> I left an options menu on Halo Reach on my display for 12 hours (long story). Most of it is in white..
> 
> 
> I changed inputs to a source that isn't hooked up. Yeah it was quite there.
> 
> 
> I put on National Geographic for about 2 minutes..checked again...gone.
> 
> 
> Don't care what the pundits and naysayers wanna gripe about, actions speak louder than words.
> 
> 
> Oh and mind you, this set has under 200 hours on it.



That's great for you. You should consider yourself lucky that you have a plasma that you can abuse like that without getting into trouble. That is not normal.


----------



## anthonyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by *the skeptik* 
This is why I don't buy or recommend plasma. I have made only a handful of posts but they get ripped to shreds on here and I end up being called a liar. Burn in and IR STILL is a problem with plasmas for people with certain viewing habits. 900 hours of break in? What a joke. I love the PQ of a good plasma but they are just too much work. Like others have said, a tv is for enjoyment, not for more work.
Obviously, I believe you concerning burn-in. We have had to buy an LED for the living room and are moving the 3-month old Plasma to a different room, so that we can continue to watch our preferred news channels in the living room without concern for the burn-in of the banners and logos.


The thing about these banners and logos is that they are frequently a bright white - the MSNBC banner (used for their evening lineup) is bright white with black letters - I imagine that is an awful combination to have for a plasma screen. I took a look at that Cartoon Network logo on the bottom right and it, too, is bright white. Sheesh!


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthonyl* /forum/post/20044929
> 
> 
> Obviously, I believe you concerning burn-in. We have had to buy an LED for the living room and are moving the 3-month old Plasma to a different room, so that we can continue to watch our preferred news channels in the living room without concern for the burn-in of the banners and logos.
> 
> 
> The thing about these banners and logos is that they are frequently a bright white - the MSNBC banner (used for their evening lineup) is bright white with black letters - I imagine that is an awful combination to have for a plasma screen. I took a look at that Cartoon Network logo on the bottom right and it, too, is bright white. Sheesh!



Which begs the question. Why can't the friggin networks move their logos every minute to a different corner?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20045393
> 
> 
> Which begs the question. Why can't the friggin networks move their logos every minute to a different corner?



If Plasma was as dominant as LCD then the networks may reconsider the diplaying of their logos. But since the opposite is true I'm sure logos don't register as an issue for them. From my normal viewing habits only the EncoreHD logo has gotten me, I avoid the channel now.


----------



## greenjp

I feel like I have to post in this thread every few months to improve the signal to noise ratio.


I've had my Panasonic plasma for 3 years now. It's main two activities are watching sports and playing Xbox. Score tickers, the ESPN logo, in-game HUDs, etc are on this thing all the time. The rest of the time is watching shows, mostly in HD, and the occasional letterboxed movie.


The TV's screen uniformity remains perfect, ie no burn in. I do occasionally have some image retention, typically of the ESPN logo when all I've done over the course of a few weeks is watch college basketball games, but it always goes away. And this TV doesn't have pixel orbiting or a screen wiping feature.


The TV requires no "work". I used a reduced contrast setting for the first two weeks but certainly didn't run slides or count hours. If I had let this burn in or "work" talk scare me away 3 years ago I'd be sitting with a crummy 40" LCD instead of a nice 50" plasma.


Take it for what it's worth.


jeff


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenjp* /forum/post/20046263
> 
> 
> I feel like I have to post in this thread every few months to improve the signal to noise ratio.
> 
> 
> I've had my Panasonic plasma for 3 years now. It's main two activities are watching sports and playing Xbox. Score tickers, the ESPN logo, in-game HUDs, etc are on this thing all the time. The rest of the time is watching shows, mostly in HD, and the occasional letterboxed movie.
> 
> 
> The TV's screen uniformity remains perfect, ie no burn in. I do occasionally have some image retention, typically of the ESPN logo when all I've done over the course of a few weeks is watch college basketball games, but it always goes away. And this TV doesn't have pixel orbiting or a screen wiping feature.
> 
> 
> The TV requires no "work". I used a reduced contrast setting for the first two weeks but certainly didn't run slides or count hours. If I had let this burn in or "work" talk scare me away 3 years ago I'd be sitting with a crummy 40" LCD instead of a nice 50" plasma.
> 
> 
> Take it for what it's worth.
> 
> 
> jeff



You're right. Let me enter the fray after rifling through pages and pages of fright night posts. Phosphorous based displays are subject ot IR or burn in if abused. But all this talk about 100-900 hours of break-in and ths fear mongering needs to go.


----------



## kaoselement

Wondering if anyone has an updated link to any break-in slides? The ones on the first page all seem dead, and I'm not interested in a break-in DVD, just the 100-150 slides that I can throw on a USB stick and run a few times a week. I hear alot of good things about the ones from www.webapalooza.com but when I go to the site, I get an index and forbidden permissions.


Thanks in advance


----------



## anthonyl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaoselement* /forum/post/20046440
> 
> 
> Wondering if anyone has an updated link to any break-in slides? The ones on the first page all seem dead, and I'm not interested in a break-in DVD, just the 100-150 slides that I can throw on a USB stick and run a few times a week. I hear alot of good things about the ones from www.webapalooza.com but when I go to the site, I get an index and forbidden permissions.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



Well, I just followed the trail of links and the images are still there. Here is the ultimate link:

http://www.eaprogramming.com/ 


The slides are on the LHS, about 20 lines down, under "New - Plasma Breakin DVD Images" . Click on "zip download".


Edit: Sorry, I left off a step. Go to the link I posted, above, then click on the box on the RHS where it says: "Free Download Available in 3 formats", then locate the download on the LHS, about 20 lines down, as I described above.


----------



## Jack Torrance

So just got my Samsung PN50C680, first plasma I have owned (previously had LCD RPTV). Did some research on the break-in procedure, but I came across a quote which said the newer Samsung sets do not need to be "broken in". Any advice from anyone on this? Just don't want to mess it up!


Second, when breaking in, what should the settings be and how long should I leave it on for breaking in per day? If there are any other owners of this model reading this, how many hours did you break yours in for?


Any help/answers would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jack Torrance* /forum/post/20047433
> 
> 
> So just got my Samsung PN50C680, first plasma I have owned (previously had LCD RPTV). Did some research on the break-in procedure, but I came across a quote which said the newer Samsung sets do not need to be "broken in". Any advice from anyone on this? Just don't want to mess it up!
> 
> 
> Second, when breaking in, what should the settings be and how long should I leave it on for breaking in per day? If there are any other owners of this model reading this, how many hours did you break yours in for?
> 
> 
> Any help/answers would be greatly appreciated



Just calibrate your set and watch it. Try to stay away from extended stationary displays such as opaque logos and video game backgrounds, especially during the first few months. You don't need no stinking break-in slides nor do you need to reduce brightness and contrast to unwatchable levels. Calibrate and enjoy. If you pay attention to threads like these you will become paranoid.


----------



## tazz3

ok i unziped the slides. and i saw that the frist slide is white then it goes to darker colors

now when i send these to a thumb stick sometimes they are not in order so can the slide

start with any color?? does it have to be white? sorry for this dumb question


----------



## ranicete79

Just thought I share my scary experience (thanks to the internet) of owning my very first plasma (the Sammy PN58C8000). On 2/3/11, I posted on here (post #2695) my concerns about the set I just purchased and how paranoid this thread and the internet has made me about my decision of going with Plasma. I've always been your average-LCD-preferred-type-Joe, but I was blown away at the natural PQ and superior-off-axis viewing angle of this set that I ultimately purchased it over the LED UN55C8000 (I could have gotten the LED at $100 less and same 3D bundle). I have a huge living room and always have friends over; and since they all can't sit in my sectional during game night, the set's off-angle viewing compensates for that. Anyway, case in point, after going over 2,000+ posts in this thread and doing tons of research online, I decided to do the break-in just for my own piece of mind. I ran the slides I found in this thread (120 HD slides at 1080 lines) for about 3 weeks (250 hours) and watched some sports (Superbowl and Lakers nights) and movies in between at high settings (over 95 contrast ratio). I now have 260 hours. Last night, my daughter and I finally decided to watch the 3D kit this set came with. We watched Shrek 3 and 4 in 3D mode running at 16:9 with horizontal black bars the whole time. After we were done, I switched the set to Showtime and *did not* notice any Image Retention that others have claimed they've gotten after only watching an hour with black bars. To me, I think the advice of being careful for the first 150-250 hours really does help. And also, at my previous post, I mentioned about the buzzing or humming. I only hear it when I actually try hard to listen to it by going behind the TV set itself; otherwise, when I'm in front of it, NADA. I think I only noticed it because I read it online, I would have never paid attention to it otherwise. But overall, I am a very pleased and happy Plasma owner.


----------



## Peter Johnson

"To me, I think the advice of being careful for the first 150-250 hours really does help." Ranicete79

OK. Now tell us on what facts you base this conclusion since you obviously assume it is related to your break-in procedure.


----------



## ranicete79




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20050953
> 
> 
> "To me, I think the advice of being careful for the first 150-250 hours really does help." Ranicete79
> 
> OK. Now tell us on what facts you base this conclusion since you obviously assume it is related to your break-in procedure.



Hi Peter,


"To me, I think"


That phrase alone states the obvious; an opinion, not facts. Nevertheless, I will answer your question indirectly. I can sleep better knowing that I did the break-in and aged the phospors evenly as many in here recommended doing.


----------



## Dayton

The point is to put some hours on the plasma and if you can do so with absolutely safe content, can it be viewed as anything but a "help"? I think it is ridiculous to avoid enjoying your TV until the slides have been run for 100 hours first. But if one is looking to put some hours on a new plasma during what would ordinarily be veiwing down-time, running the slides is a nice way to accomplish this.


As long as new plasma owners are aware that IR occurs more easily and stays around longer on a new plasma, then they can decide on the appropriate viewing practices for them. This I suppose is what I consider "break-in".


----------



## Jack Torrance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20049360
> 
> 
> Just calibrate your set and watch it. Try to stay away from extended stationary displays such as opaque logos and video game backgrounds, especially during the first few months. You don't need no stinking break-in slides nor do you need to reduce brightness and contrast to unwatchable levels. Calibrate and enjoy. If you pay attention to threads like these you will become paranoid.



Thanks for the response Peter (and thanks to the others in this thread too). Much appreciated


----------



## ranicete79




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/20052042
> 
> 
> The point is to put some hours on the plasma and if you can do so with absolutely safe content, can it be viewed as anything but a "help"? I think it is ridiculous to avoid enjoying your TV until the slides have been run for 100 hours first. But if one is looking to put some hours on a new plasma during what would ordinarily be veiwing down-time, running the slides is a nice way to accomplish this.
> 
> 
> As long as new plasma owners are aware that IR occurs more easily and stays around longer on a new plasma, then they can decide on the appropriate viewing practices for them. This I suppose is what I consider "break-in".



Dayton, I agree that it is ridiculous to avoid the enjoyment of one's TV especially after splurging a pretty huge amount of $ on it. Anyway, I did just what you stated. And that is, during the first 250 hours or 3 weeks, I watched mixed contents (superbowl, movies, etc...) and was very cautious about black bars and 4:3 broadcasts. At night before going to bed, I would run the slides all night.


----------



## Yba

Hello, I purchased my first plasma TV recently. My first HDTV in fact. I read up about the whole "Break In Period" and I let my TV run the slides at appropriate settings for a full 100 hours before I started to use the TV. I am now using the TV regularly at a moderate brightness, however I was immediately experiencing Image Retention despite all the pre-cautions. The TV is now about 140 hours into it's life and the issue persists. I'm aware that even after the Break In Period the TV is going to be susceptible to Image Retention, however I'm unsure if what I'm experiencing is normal. Leaving a television station logo, or a HUD of a video game in one spot for not even a mere five minutes always leaves some Image Retention behind that can take several minutes to fully wash away.


Now I don't know if I'm being paranoid about it but I'm starting to feel that this TV may be overly sensitive to Image Retention. So I'm here now to ask the experts what they think. Is this situation with the TV normal, or does it sound as if this TV is too sensitive?


----------



## Dayton

140 hours is still new, so what you are experiencing is normal. However some plasmas are more susceptible to IR than others, which plasma do you have?


----------



## Yba

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dayton* 
140 hours is still new, so what you are experiencing is normal. However some plasmas are more susceptible to IR than others, which plasma do you have?
I have a Samsung PN50C550. Beautiful picture on it, so I hope the Image Intention dies down soon so I can stop being afraid to use it.


----------



## 80sGuy

Got my Panasonic TC-P42G25 and I'm extremely happy with the picture quality. Two days later, my Denon 2310CI receiver arrived and while I was doing the set up, the bright white Denon OSD appeared on my screen (off and on) for some periods of time. I did not realize it until last night as I was switching to DVD mode (blank input screen) and noticed a slight faint letter 'O', and as I moved my eyes around but couldn't figure out what it was, then I decided to move my head around and was able to read out 'DENON' -- appearing in a shade darker than the dark blank screen. It immediately daunted on me that a few nights before, I was setting up 'Audyssey' which required a good 20+ minutes. So this thing could be there for some time.


I did the Scroll Bar, ran B/W (snow) noise from an un-tuned channel, and also ran the break-in DVD. I did all these variations for more than 24 hours now and the logo is till there. Although you can't really see it if you don't know of it, but it IS noticeable from running the DVD slides; especially on the White, Gray and Lavender colors. I hate to believe that this is a 'burn-in'. This does not hinder while I'm watching regular TV or DVD movies though.


The TV is only 15 days old. Besides the costly calibration, what other alternatives do I have as to get rid of it? The DVD is still running as we speak.


Thanks!


----------



## Peter Johnson

Quote:

Originally Posted by *80sGuy* 
Got my Panasonic TC-P42G25 and I'm extremely happy with the picture quality. Two days later, my Denon 2310CI receiver arrived and while I was doing the set up, the bright white Denon OSD appeared on my screen (off and on) for some periods of time. I did not realize it until last night as I was switching to DVD mode (blank input screen) and noticed a slight faint letter 'O', and as I moved my eyes around but couldn't figure out what it was, then I decided to move my head around and was able to read out 'DENON' -- appearing in a shade darker than the dark blank screen. It immediately daunted on me that a few nights before, I was setting up 'Audyssey' which required a good 20+ minutes. So this thing could be there for some time.


I did the Scroll Bar, ran B/W (snow) noise from an un-tuned channel, and also ran the break-in DVD. I did all these variations for more than 24 hours now and the logo is till there. Although you can't really see it if you don't know of it, but it IS noticeable from running the DVD slides; especially on the White, Gray and Lavender colors. I hate to believe that this is a 'burn-in'. This does not hinder while I'm watching regular TV or DVD movies though.


The TV is only 15 days old. Besides the costly calibration, what other alternatives do I have as to get rid of it? The DVD is still running as we speak.


Thanks!
Turn up brightness and contrast to 90% and keep running the snow pattern.


----------



## 80sGuy

Thanks, just did that now, we'll see how it goes.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Doesn't seem to go away, had the TV on for more than 48 hours straight with DVD looping, B/W noise, watched a DVD (Disney's UP) and had B/W noise with Brightness and Contrast up but no go. I'm afraid it's a permanent burn in. This really sucks balls big time and I'm really hating my Denon receiver for displaying its bright white logo name while setting up the thing.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20058195
> 
> 
> ^^Doesn't seem to go away, had the TV on for more than 48 hours straight with DVD looping, B/W noise, watched a DVD (Disney's UP) and had B/W noise with Brightness and Contrast up but no go. I'm afraid it's a permanent burn in. This really sucks balls big time and I'm really hating my Denon receiver for displaying its bright white logo name while setting up the thing.



Welcome to the paranoia of owning a plasma. LOL. Anyway, have you tried the built in white wash? I don't think BW snow helps much but I had a similar issue with Cartoon Network logo which did not seem to go away.

I ran the photo viewer with the colored slides for almost 14 hours and it went away.

I believe the trick is to watch with lower contrast and sharpness level. That has somehow helped me.

(You had 48 hours between your posts to all that?)


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20058195
> 
> 
> ^^Doesn't seem to go away, had the TV on for more than 48 hours straight with DVD looping, B/W noise, watched a DVD (Disney's UP) and had B/W noise with Brightness and Contrast up but no go. I'm afraid it's a permanent burn in. This really sucks balls big time and I'm really hating my Denon receiver for displaying its bright white logo name while setting up the thing.



Honestly, if you can only see it on a blank screen, what's the big deal? I just can't, for the life of me, understand why people freak out over a little IR when they can't even see it during normal viewing. Relax and enjoy your TV.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20045393
> 
> 
> Which begs the question. Why can't the friggin networks move their logos every minute to a different corner?


_Yes,even i used to think so,these channel guys are bent upon destroying the plasma tv's of their viewers.thereby creating fear amoung plasma tv buyers.

At least the HD channels could try to fade in fade out their logos from solid to transparent.Or make it spin gently once in every 15 to 20 secs.

But i have decided not to see much of cable tv using my plasma tv.instead use to watch BD movies in 1080p.
_


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20059809
> 
> 
> Welcome to the paranoia of owning a plasma. LOL. Anyway, have you tried the built in white wash? I don't think BW snow helps much but I had a similar issue with Cartoon Network logo which did not seem to go away.
> 
> I ran the photo viewer with the colored slides for almost 14 hours and it went away.
> 
> I believe the trick is to watch with lower contrast and sharpness level. That has somehow helped me.
> 
> (You had 48 hours between your posts to all that?)



I noticed this over 48 hours ago and have been tackling the issue since. Yes, I've tried the Scroll Bar twice, plus playing the multi-colored DVD loop, also ran the Snowy Noise and watched 'Up' twice. It didn't really work but I think I should tone down the picture a bit like you've mentioned and just enjoy the TV, and (hopefully) let it disappear in time. My initial settings were pretty low -- using THX mode (57 Contrast/56 Brightness) and nothing has changed.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/20059848
> 
> 
> Honestly, if you can only see it on a blank screen, what's the big deal? I just can't, for the life of me, understand why people freak out over a little IR when they can't even see it during normal viewing. Relax and enjoy your TV.



You're right, but I can spot it like a watermark from the movie 'UP' -- on the scene when they got to Paradise Falls where the skies had multiple-colored shades (much like the DVD loop); but only IF I look for it otherwise the chances of seeing it is slim to almost none. It's kind of like a 1% chance to even seeing it if one doesn't know, and yes I know I'm being anal about it! I guess from a psychological standpoint, when you know it's there you tend to look for it to make sure that it doesn't start to spread like cancer. Maybe I am freaking out a bit.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20059885
> 
> _Yes,even i used to think so,these channel guys are bent upon destroying the plasma tv's of their viewers.thereby creating fear amoung plasma tv buyers.
> 
> At least the HD channels could try to fade in fade out their logos from solid to transparent.Or make it spin gently once in every 15 to 20 secs.
> 
> But i have decided not to see much of cable tv using my plasma tv.instead use to watch BD movies in 1080p.
> _



Channel logos are okay, I get them but as soon as I started watching something else they go away, but the one I have now is from my receiver. When I bring up the OSD menu, a big brand name logo is splashed dimly across the black screen, and another brightly lit smaller name logo on the upper middle-right screen; that was the one that got retained. I think I got it while I was setting up Audyssey for my 5.1 speakers which took over 30 minutes to complete. I bought the TV, Receiver and Speakers at the same time but shipped separately.


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20059809
> 
> 
> Welcome to the paranoia of owning a plasma. LOL. Anyway, have you tried the built in white wash? I don't think BW snow helps much but I had a similar issue with Cartoon Network logo which did not seem to go away.
> 
> I ran the photo viewer with the colored slides for almost 14 hours and it went away.
> 
> I believe the trick is to watch with lower contrast and sharpness level. That has somehow helped me.
> 
> (You had 48 hours between your posts to all that?)



Geezus man, where is your sense of empathy? This poster has a new TV that may have burn-in that will probably not be covered by warranty. There is nothing remotely humorous about his plight. You're also plain wrong about the general effectiveness of a snow wash.


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/20059848
> 
> 
> Honestly, if you can only see it on a blank screen, what's the big deal? I just can't, for the life of me, understand why people freak out over a little IR when they can't even see it during normal viewing. Relax and enjoy your TV.



The "big deal" is that he sees it and it bothers him. Geezus, did you folks wake up on idiot side of the bed or what?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20058195
> 
> 
> ^^Doesn't seem to go away, had the TV on for more than 48 hours straight with DVD looping, B/W noise, watched a DVD (Disney's UP) and had B/W noise with Brightness and Contrast up but no go. I'm afraid it's a permanent burn in. This really sucks balls big time and I'm really hating my Denon receiver for displaying its bright white logo name while setting up the thing.



It will go away in time but probably not as quickly as you would like, may take a week or two. Just avoid displaying the image that was retained. If you don't see the IR being reduced with snow or the slides run in a Vivid mode then you could probably stop, unless you look at it as a way to also put in some hours on the plasma.


----------



## hawnr6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20060376
> 
> 
> Geezus man, where is your sense of empathy? This poster has a new TV that may have burn-in that will probably not be covered by warranty. There is nothing remotely humorous about his plight. You're also plain wrong about the general effectiveness of a snow wash.



Ha Peter -- you are a trip .. first you come into a "break in" thread and and tell everyone they dont need break-in slides, because you dont have to worry about burn-in. Then you say this guy has burn-in on his new tv.


so which is it? if he didnt follow your advice and used break-in slides, would he still have his "burn-in" problem? .. you seem to be the expert on this topic


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hawnr6* /forum/post/20061725
> 
> 
> Ha Peter -- you are a trip .. first you come into a "break in" thread and and tell everyone they dont need break-in slides, because you dont have to worry about burn-in. Then you say this guy has burn-in on his new tv.
> 
> 
> so which is it? if he didnt follow your advice and used break-in slides, would he still have his "burn-in" problem? .. you seem to be the expert on this topic



First, you need to learn to read with comprehension. I challenge you to find one post in which I stated or implied that burn-in was not a potential issue with plasmas. I did state that you don't need to utilize break in slides during the early life of the set. I take it you woke up on the idiot side of the bed today.


----------



## hawnr6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20062053
> 
> 
> First, you need to learn to read with comprehension. I challenge you to find one post in which I stated or implied that burn-in was not a potential issue with plasmas. I did state that you don't need to utilize break in slides during the early life of the set. I take it you woke up on the idiot side of the bed today.



Ha.. "idiot side of the bed"? -- you must be a hoot at parties..


anyway -- you still didnt answer the question:

if he didnt follow your advice and used break-in slides, would he still have his "burn-in" problem?


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hawnr6* /forum/post/20062651
> 
> 
> Ha.. "idiot side of the bed"? -- you must be a hoot at parties..
> 
> 
> anyway -- you still didnt answer the question:
> 
> if he didnt follow your advice and used break-in slides, would he still have his "burn-in" problem?



Couldn't find one could you? I'll accept that apology at this time.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the skeptik* /forum/post/20042252
> 
> 
> This is why I don't buy or recommend plasma. I have made only a handful of posts but they get ripped to shreds on here and I end up being called a liar. Burn in and IR STILL is a problem with plasmas for people with certain viewing habits. 900 hours of break in? What a joke. I love the PQ of a good plasma but they are just too much work. Like others have said, a tv is for enjoyment, not for more work.



I do agree that it's a joke to have to run "break-in" slides on a new tv. Also people leaving their tv's on for 12 hours overnight...wow...what a waste of electricity! I wouldn't want to see their electricity bill.


I just bought a plasma, but I'm not worried about burn-in or am I going to run "break-in" slides on it. That's for the birds. I'm just going to use it like a normal tv. Best Buy 4yr extended warranty covers burn-in so I'm covered. If the tv manual doesn't state to run slides or don't watch 4:3, then I assume it's okay to watch whatever I want with my plasma or play games all day on it.


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/20069094
> 
> 
> I do agree that it's a joke to have to run "break-in" slides on a new tv. Also people leaving their tv's on for 12 hours overnight...wow...what a waste of electricity! I wouldn't want to see their electricity bill.
> 
> 
> I just bought a plasma, but I'm not worried about burn-in or am I going to run "break-in" slides on it. That's for the birds. I'm just going to use it like a normal tv. Best Buy 4yr extended warranty covers burn-in so I'm covered. If the tv manual doesn't state to run slides or don't watch 4:3, then I assume it's okay to watch whatever I want with my plasma or play games all day on it.



Are you sure the Best Buy warranty covers burn-in? I bought a 4 year as well and that would be awesome news.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/20061116
> 
> 
> It will go away in time but probably not as quickly as you would like, may take a week or two. Just avoid displaying the image that was retained. If you don't see the IR being reduced with snow or the slides run in a Vivid mode then you could probably stop, unless you look at it as a way to also put in some hours on the plasma.



A week has pretty much gone by and the very light faint gray 'Denon' name is still on my screen. As I mentioned before, it is very hard to spot unless you know its there, I can expect to see it in scenes with light blue to bright white skies. Most people couldn't spot it because they don't know it exist.


I did EVERYTHING;

Run the Scroll Bar after a movie and before I go to sleep,

Run the slides every now and then (but 48 hours after I discovered the mark)

Zoomed everything 4:3 format to cover whole screen


So yes people, BURN-IN is still very real and very easy to get. I got it while setting up my new receiver (25 minutes on a screen set to 56 Contrast & 57 Brightness -- not anywhere near torch mode). I'd still like to think that this is 'image retention', but who am I fooling though? 'Hopefully' when I surpassed the 250 hour mark things will look different.


----------



## Dayton

It still qualifies as IR, a lot of time has to pass for it to be considered permanent. I would guess in another week it will be gone. When my VT25 was new I got some IR from playing Demons Souls, took two weeks to go away.


Do Denon's not offer configuration over http any more? Doing all the configuration in a browser is definitely the way to go.


----------



## Scotty2H

Is there a way change the white wash bar on a VT25 from 15 minutes to constant? I have some IR from a game and the stupid history channel HD logo. It's been about at week of watching everything but those sources and running slides. Still visible. I'd like to just leave the white wash on over night and see what happens.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scotty2H* /forum/post/20080856
> 
> 
> Is there a way change the white wash bar on a VT25 from 15 minutes to constant? I have some IR from a game and the stupid history channel HD logo. It's been about at week of watching everything but those sources and running slides. Still visible. I'd like to just leave the white wash on over night and see what happens.



You wouldn't want to do that as it is to be used sparingly.


----------



## Scotty2H

I understand that. However, the TV itself is used sparingly (~1-2 hours a day). The fact that 2 episodes of Top Gear USA and 1.5 hours of DC Universe Online last Sunday (Feb 20th) in THX mode has left IR which has not been cleared in 20+ hours of slides and full screen no logo content is a little absurd.


----------



## 80sGuy

Yeah, when I used the scroll bars I only do it 3 or 4 times incrementally. It is not recommend for long term use as it can shorten the lifespan of the screen.


----------



## Yba

Well, I'm considering throwing in the towel on my first plasma and exchanging it for an LCD. I picked up a Samsung C550, my first HDTV, my first plasma. I love the picture quality to death, but the Image Retention I'm seeing is souring my entire experience.


I set it at the proper settings and ran Break In slides for the recommended 100 hours before using it normally. However, I was getting Image Retention easily so I continued to run the slides overnight and was being extremely cautious with it during normal use. No black bars, low brightness, low contrast, zooming in, no stationary logos, etc. It now has well over 250 hours of use and the Image Retention persists.


I turned on a video game with a stationary HUD, set the brightness and contrast low, and left it there for only five minutes. The after image of the HUD remained on screen and could been seen on bright or dark backgrounds and it took a couple minutes to fade away.


I turn on the same game, set the TV for the appropriately calibrated settings I'd use for normal use, and let it sit there for fifteen minutes and the after image of the HUD remained on screen so brightly that even when switching through TV channels it could clearly be seen, and it took several minutes to fade away.


This seems ridiculously sensitive to me, more so after all I've read about how you practically have to _try_ to get a modern plasma to experience this. Letting a video game HUD remain on the TV for a mere five minutes until Image Retention sets in just seems to contradict all that. I can't call that reckless use.


Being a heavy gamer, it scares the hell out of me how easy this TV will stick a HUD to my screen. I love the picture, and I don't think I'd be content with an LCD. But I shouldn't be afraid to use my TV for gaming for a couple of hours. So I think I may just have to settle for inferior picture and motion and go LCD.


Bleh, buying a TV is such a pain in the ass.


----------



## kris achar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Yba* 
Bleh, buying a TV is such a pain in the ass.








_I have to agree with you to what you have said.I have the feeling that the Crt's were removed from the market in haste !

I have purschased PDP 50 inches V series a week back and i am watching only movies in full screen i.e without any black bars.And no cable feed...All members in our house are very curious to see how the regular DTH channels appears.But i have given standing instruction that no one would see any DTH channels until i complete at least 150 hours of movie watching But this has angered my wife very much since she cannot see here favouriate soaps daily...









Iam not in a hurry to use the break-in slides.Since iam using our Plasma for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening running some movie or the other.And the tv is set in normal mode with no change in default settings.And the vivid mode & other settings are all on...

I must tell you the movies are great to watch and i watch our tv in moderately 'well lit' up hall.

Let us see wheather my method burns the PDP evenly or burns it out totally only time can tell.But my experiment will continue..

And whenever i tried to use the slide show of the burn in stills.My wife would say that this will bring our PDP to half life much sooner than not using any burn in procedure,Though we are not experts in this field,i think she is talking some sense...

Any way i will keep you all informed what is happening here.

And most of the stores where i saw the demo of my panasonic plasma v series they were all watching DTH HD with at least 2 logos on the right side of the tv and black bars on top and bottom of the 16 : 9 content.

When i asked them about their experience on I.R & screen burn-in they laughed saying its a thing of the past.

But i insisted them to change the channels & even the feed from DTH to BD.I could not see any I.R.And i know that all the tv's in that shop had been displaying one particular channel all the time,So image retention must have to be their but to my surprise it is not visiable.

From morning 10.30 to night 7.30 they are displaying the same channel with the same logos 24x7.This is beyond my understanding.

So i wish to see more of movies in normal mode and going to spend less time running those burn-in slides.
_


----------



## Peter Johnson

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Yba* 
Well, I'm considering throwing in the towel on my first plasma and exchanging it for an LCD. I picked up a Samsung C550, my first HDTV, my first plasma. I love the picture quality to death, but the Image Retention I'm seeing is souring my entire experience.


I set it at the proper settings and ran Break In slides for the recommended 100 hours before using it normally. However, I was getting Image Retention easily so I continued to run the slides overnight and was being extremely cautious with it during normal use. No black bars, low brightness, low contrast, zooming in, no stationary logos, etc. It now has well over 250 hours of use and the Image Retention persists.


I turned on a video game with a stationary HUD, set the brightness and contrast low, and left it there for only five minutes. The after image of the HUD remained on screen and could been seen on bright or dark backgrounds and it took a couple minutes to fade away.


I turn on the same game, set the TV for the appropriately calibrated settings I'd use for normal use, and let it sit there for fifteen minutes and the after image of the HUD remained on screen so brightly that even when switching through TV channels it could clearly be seen, and it took several minutes to fade away.


This seems ridiculously sensitive to me, more so after all I've read about how you practically have to _try_ to get a modern plasma to experience this. Letting a video game HUD remain on the TV for a mere five minutes until Image Retention sets in just seems to contradict all that. I can't call that reckless use.


Being a heavy gamer, it scares the hell out of me how easy this TV will stick a HUD to my screen. I love the picture, and I don't think I'd be content with an LCD. But I shouldn't be afraid to use my TV for gaming for a couple of hours. So I think I may just have to settle for inferior picture and motion and go LCD.


Bleh, buying a TV is such a pain in the ass.








I have said over and over again that if you are a heavy gamer, LCD is a better choice. No one listens until they get IR or burn in on a plasma.


----------



## Android82

So guys, I'm new here and new to Plasma. I have my old Philips 42" LCD in the basement and have my new LG 50PK540 as my main TV (It blows my 52" Bravia I had completely away). I absolutely LOVE the picture quality. IR scares the bejeezus out of me though.


My main concern is letterboxing. Almost all of my movies are 2:39:1. My wife let the kids watch a couple of hours of Nick Jr. in SD today which was 4:3 and I saw it right away as soon as I turned it on this evening.


Anyway, after watching 2 movies it's pretty much gone. Will this be a recurring issue with this TV? I know LG's suffer IR a bit more than others (from what I've read). I plan on using the break-in DVD now that I've burned it tonight. The TV has maybe 20-30 hours of use on it as of tonight.


Thanks!


----------



## metallicaband




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20085023
> 
> 
> I have said over and over again that if you are a heavy gamer, LCD is a better choice. No one listens until they get IR or burn in on a plasma.



I'm a heavy gamer and 4-8 hours of gaming on daily basis is common for my 5020FD Kuro for the past 2 years, I've only seen IR at the beginning because I was stupid and had the orbiters off, but with the orbiters on, I've never seen a hint of IR.


So IMO it depends on the plasma whether it's suitable for gaming or not, I've heard lots of bad things regarding IR with Samsung so I'd definitely not get one if I was a heavy gamer. If some Panasonic models are as resistant to IR/BI as the 9G Kuros then IMO they're more than fine for gaming, I was only paranoid with my plasma at the beginning, but now I even leave static images on the screen (paused game) for hours while I'm surfing the net without worrying about the thing getting IR or BI lol.


I'd much rather have the PQ of a good plasma over any LCD I've seen out there so far, just gotta research well before getting the panel.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metallicaband* /forum/post/20100467
> 
> 
> I'm a heavy gamer and 4-8 hours of gaming on daily basis is common for my 5020FD Kuro for the past 2 years, I've only seen IR at the beginning because I was stupid and had the orbiters off, but with the orbiters on, I've never seen a hint of IR.
> 
> 
> So IMO it depends on the plasma whether it's suitable for gaming or not, I've heard lots of bad things regarding IR with Samsung so I'd definitely not get one if I was a heavy gamer. If some Panasonic models are as resistant to IR/BI as the 9G Kuros then IMO they're more than fine for gaming, I was only paranoid with my plasma at the beginning, but now I even leave static images on the screen (paused game) for hours while I'm surfing the net without worrying about the thing getting IR or BI lol.
> 
> 
> I'd much rather have the PQ of a good plasma over any LCD I've seen out there so far, just gotta research well before getting the panel.


_Can you please guide me as to where one could find the pixel orbiters or wiper slide options in the menu ? Since in our panny 50 inches plasma v20 series i do not see any of these settings in the set up menu.This unit was manufactured in january 2011.

Any help in this regard is highly appreciated...Even i want to enable this option !


Thanks & Love.
_


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metallicaband* /forum/post/20100467
> 
> 
> I'm a heavy gamer and 4-8 hours of gaming on daily basis is common for my 5020FD Kuro for the past 2 years, I've only seen IR at the beginning because I was stupid and had the orbiters off, but with the orbiters on, I've never seen a hint of IR.
> 
> 
> So IMO it depends on the plasma whether it's suitable for gaming or not, I've heard lots of bad things regarding IR with Samsung so I'd definitely not get one if I was a heavy gamer. If some Panasonic models are as resistant to IR/BI as the 9G Kuros then IMO they're more than fine for gaming, I was only paranoid with my plasma at the beginning, but now I even leave static images on the screen (paused game) for hours while I'm surfing the net without worrying about the thing getting IR or BI lol.
> 
> 
> I'd much rather have the PQ of a good plasma over any LCD I've seen out there so far, just gotta research well before getting the panel.



go to some reviews on cnet or else and there are LCD's as good as plasma. with the black or /all stuff.


in my living room there are a big window behind


me and facing my lcd that is one of the less


reflective there are. imagine with a plasma!!!!!!


i had the last 8 years a 36'' CRT HDTV (2800 at the time wow) , si i am use with bright colors .


my lcd dont lag btw with my PC. . so no choice


with me than a lcd.


it s a choice what you do with the tv and where is it in the house and what you like to see.


but in stores all kind of lcdtv or plasma or led are crank to max with a blue ray in.


at your home it is a different story.


cya


----------



## metallicaband

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_Can you please guide me as to where one could find the pixel orbiters or wiper slide options in the menu ? Since in our panny 50 inches plasma v20 series i do not see any of these settings in the set up menu.This unit was manufactured in january 2011.

Any help in this regard is highly appreciated...Even i want to enable this option !

Thanks & Love.
_
I'm not very familiar with Panasonic plasmas menu interface, but there should be a setup option in your menu and you can look for the settings there (that's where those settings are in my Pioneer). The TV's manual should mention your Plasma screen's protection options, it should be pretty easy to find there.



@franky932


I have no intention to bring the LCD vs Plasma war debate here, that's not what this thread is about, I've said what I thought based on my experience viewing several different LCDs in light controlled environments at my friends homes (BRAVIAs, Samsungs, Sharp LCDs..etc), I very much preferred my Plasma's strengths over the LCDs I watched, many Plasma owners share the same thoughts.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metallicaband* /forum/post/20103769
> 
> 
> I'm not very familiar with Panasonic plasmas menu interface, but there should be a setup option in your menu and you can look for the settings there (that's where those settings are in my Pioneer). The TV's manual should mention your Plasma screen's protection options, it should be pretty easy to find there.


_Hai,thanks for your assistance but i did not find any settings that you have mentioned in the user settings area.Are the new panny plasmas have removed this option totally ? If so are the manufactures so confident that IR & burn-in would not occur from their new PDP's product line up ?

Can any one with 2010 to 2011 panny plasmas confirm this please...


Thanks & Love.
_


----------



## rlarsen462

Pioneer Kuro PRO-141FD here, been using it about 3 years, about 1 year ago I started using it as my primary computer monitor. I have the contrast set to 15 (now down to 5). The only time I get IR is from playing MMO's (skill bars, minimaps, etc.) that don't allow you to set transparency levels for all of the UI elements. Lord of the Rings Online is bad for this. I have to run in 'User' mode with full screen content (like HBO) for several days to clear the skill bar, specifically, after 4-8 hours of play. I even hotkey'd the 'Hide UI' function to a mouse button so when I'm just running around I can hide the culprits.


Other MMO's that allow you to make all the elements semi-transparent (like a TV station bug), obviously don't have this problem.


I did, just today, realize I have not been running the orbiter however, so I set it to Mode 2 and we'll see if that improves things. I'm not sure it will, but I guess we will see.


Otherwise, the set is perfection.


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metallicaband* /forum/post/20103769
> 
> 
> I'm not very familiar with Panasonic plasmas menu interface, but there should be a setup option in your menu and you can look for the settings there (that's where those settings are in my Pioneer). The TV's manual should mention your Plasma screen's protection options, it should be pretty easy to find there.
> 
> 
> 
> @franky932
> 
> 
> I have no intention to bring the LCD vs Plasma war debate here, that's not what this thread is about, I've said what I thought based on my experience viewing several different LCDs in light controlled environments at my friends homes (BRAVIAs, Samsungs, Sharp LCDs..etc), I very much preferred my Plasma's strengths over the LCDs I watched, many Plasma owners share the same thoughts.



no debate here lolllllllll *it is just matter of choice...*.i am in a non light controlled env. in the day......and i like bright vivid colors like a CRT.


i never said that i dont like plasma.


have a good day.


----------



## metallicaband




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlarsen462* /forum/post/20105488
> 
> 
> Pioneer Kuro PRO-141FD here, been using it about 3 years, about 1 year ago I started using it as my primary computer monitor. I have the contrast set to 15 (now down to 5). The only time I get IR is from playing MMO's (skill bars, minimaps, etc.) that don't allow you to set transparency levels for all of the UI elements. Lord of the Rings Online is bad for this. I have to run in 'User' mode with full screen content (like HBO) for several days to clear the skill bar, specifically, after 4-8 hours of play. I even hotkey'd the 'Hide UI' function to a mouse button so when I'm just running around I can hide the culprits.
> 
> 
> Other MMO's that allow you to make all the elements semi-transparent (like a TV station bug), obviously don't have this problem.
> 
> 
> I did, just today, realize I have not been running the orbiter however, so I set it to Mode 2 and we'll see if that improves things. I'm not sure it will, but I guess we will see.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, the set is perfection.



Man not running the orbiters is a Huge mistake when it comes to gaming on Kuros, if the 8G Kuros are as resistant to IR/BI as the 9G Kuros when the orbiters are on, I don't think you'll have any issues anymore, I've got over 200+ hours playing Oblivion (that was played within a month or less btw lol so it's not over a long period)where the stat bars aren't transparent and never seen a hint of IR.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Okay, about gaming...


I recently purchased a GT25. Go back a few pages and you'll hear me complaining in fear of IR. I was crazy about it. It's a big investment, and I was worried about it...


Welp, that lasted about 65 hours. After that, I said "Bump this" and just used the TV normally. I play videogames with hours of CoD, Killzone (in torch mode 3D), Battlefield, Geometry Wars 2, etc... and I have seen no IR whatsoever.


I don't run slides and maybe I'll run the scrolling bar every now and then, but no issues otherwise. The only thing I limit is broadcast TV, which I rarely ever watched anyway.


So I think gaming is okay. If there is a flashy HUD, hopefully there is an in-game mechanism to take the game away from it for a few seconds every now and then.


----------



## NickSP

I don't know how pixel orbiters can help and it is IMHO a gimmick. The orbiter probably moves the picture 1-4 pixels over but what if the logo of a channel is 50 pixels or more wide to begin with?


----------



## T0R0

After how long do I accept that the IR i have is







burn in







?


I have a pr0 101fd Kuro that is a year and half old. Noticed the IR of my browser and taskbar of desktop on Kuro a few weeks ago when I changed the theme of media center to a white background. Needless to say, highly upset!!

No idea how long it's been there. Found out later that orbiter mode 1 does not work in dot by dot mode.


So since then, have avoided using screen as pc, and been running pixar movies + avatar but it's still there. Also run the scroll bar at night.


Any recommendations or suggestions on settings while I do this? (contrast, brightness)


----------



## 80sGuy

^^I'm not sure what kind of settings are on the Kuro but the contrast and brightness should be around 50%. Despite the claim, you should never leave any static images on the same place for prolonged periods of time. Most people wouldn't notice this until they've actually looked at a blank white background -- similar to your case. You can try and disconnect the 'antenna out to TV' from the back of the cable box (if you have cable) and switch to an empty input setting and run the 'snow' for a few hours, then some slides.


----------



## fourtytwoinch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20114724
> 
> 
> I don't know how pixel orbiters can help and it is IMHO a gimmick. The orbiter probably moves the picture 1-4 pixels over but what if the logo of a channel is 50 pixels or more wide to begin with?



it's going to make the edge of the images less sharp and the whole image all together. the pixels a few pixels down are not always the same.


----------



## leopoldstoch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20101347
> 
> _Can you please guide me as to where one could find the pixel orbiters or wiper slide options in the menu ? Since in our panny 50 inches plasma v20 series i do not see any of these settings in the set up menu.This unit was manufactured in january 2011.
> 
> Any help in this regard is highly appreciated...Even i want to enable this option !
> 
> 
> Thanks & Love.
> _



@kris achar: not sure exactly the manufacture date on my Panny 42C2 but *can* tell u on my menu it's under the 'Tools' option (looks like a wrench), bottom of 1st pull down and is called "Anti Image Retention".


Btw, on IR/burn-in, I can attest it still occurs, unfortunately. Bought my unit as an "open box" & it has remnants of "Samsung" & "Netflix"... didn't even THINK about this as an issue so long as it worked & had all the parts with it










However, I see some improvement after wiping 3x times 2nite so am running snow for at least the next eight hours (while I sleep), then will burn the break-in cd tomorrow (no usb on this set , & I haven't researched/bought adapters yet).... thanks for all the excellent info on here, everyone!


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Yeah, buying an open box plasma is a terrible idea. You're asking for problems with that...


If you buy open box, buy LCD.


----------



## Peter Johnson




ChrisPharmD said:


> Yeah, buying an open box plasma is a terrible idea. You're asking for problems with that...
> 
> 
> If you buy open box, buy LCD.
> 
> WTF? That would depend on many factors including: where the purchase is made, the condition of the item, warranty coverage and many others.


----------



## leopoldstoch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/20123313
> 
> 
> Yeah, buying an open box plasma is a terrible idea. You're asking for problems with that...
> 
> 
> If you buy open box, buy LCD.



Had NO idea!


Was under the impression (from salesperson at one big box store) that many were bought just for Superbowl then returned the next day.... AND hadn't read far enough on here to know that burn-in was still an issue (thot it was only older plasmas) so didn't consider it. Had seen/heard a few other places--big box salesperson, doing cursory search on it--that it's 'no longer an issue'.... riiiight!...(tho why I gave any weight to what a salesperson said is a whole OTHER issue, lol! ;->)


Actually, HHGregg will swap out the unit so am getting another tonite.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leopoldstoch* /forum/post/20121255
> 
> 
> @kris achar: not sure exactly the manufacture date on my Panny 42C2 but *can* tell u on my menu it's under the 'Tools' option (looks like a wrench), bottom of 1st pull down and is called "Anti Image Retention".


_Thanks very much for the information but i could not see any Anti IR tools in that service area section...And my panny unit is 2011 production line of the v20 series made in Thailand(Export Model).The performance is stunning but just want to play safe by enabling all the Anti burn or Anti I.R Tools if provided !
_


----------



## kuznagi

Wanted to ask if I have a case of IR on my plasma, I got a new PN63C590 last week and ran the slides from the get go for about 95 hours, then this weekend I watched a full screen movie and a couple of episodes of smallville (full screen). On saturday/sunday I tested out watching a 2.35:1 widescreenmovies.


This morning I ran this slides again to go to 200 hours but at the very bottom on some colors (red/green) I'm noticing that there is a faint line, I put a piece of paper at that spot and ran a widescreen blu ray and it is NOT from the blu ray bars, perhaps its from the line at the bottom of the mediaplay screen?


Anyways is that burnin or IR? Anything I can do to fix it? i don't expect to see this considering I never left my tv at one single screen for more than 15 mins and I watched 2 widescreen blu rays.


thanks...


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Try using one of the empty input and disconnect the 'ANT OUT TO TV' from the rear of cable box or 'ANT IN' from TV, and run the snow for a few hours. Continue to watch regular shows on FULL screen for HD and ZOOM for SD contents. If that doesn't go away then it is likely Burn In.


----------



## T0R0

So if an image doesn't go away in a few days it's burn in?

Would inverting the colors of the IR image and leaving that up have any benefit?


----------



## 80sGuy

It's burn-in if it doesn't go away in a few days or in weeks time.

Besides, how do you invert the color of that same image on the same location? Although I can put the same image up on mine from my receiver's gui menu, I can't invert the color. Even if you can you're just burning the rest of the panel to even out the phosphors. Just watch regular TV and let all of it 'aged' naturally for the long term, nothing much you can do at this point.


----------



## T0R0

Grrrr I was afraid of that. It's not going away.

And since my burn in image was my pc desktop, taskbar on the side. Screen captured and inverted the colors in photoshop, is this worth even trying??


Like I mentioned earlier, I've since taken steps to not cause further damage but is the photoshop idea valid?


----------



## 80sGuy

Well, if you're gonna go that route, why not try this JScreenFix deluxe. Its been touted as pretty good from forum members and other sources. I haven't tried it since my burn-in wasn't as big as I thought, but many people has used it effectively.

http://www.jscreenfix.com/


----------



## ChrisPharmD

How is it possible that black can get burned into a plasma? I mean, isn't black the absence of the phosphors getting energized? Wouldn't it be equivalent to the TV being turned off?


----------



## NickSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* 
How is it possible that black can get burned into a plasma? I mean, isn't black the absence of the phosphors getting energized? Wouldn't it be equivalent to the TV being turned off?
This should lead to bezel blacks but it doesn't. I believe the blacks do get energized and thus leave IR when viewed on a light background.

I had a big issue with Cartoon Network logo burned in after days of my son watching the channel. It took 2 weeks for that logo to go away after running slides, etc.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Well, I have finally seen IR in my GT25 for the first time. I was watching Netflix and forgot to turn my Xbox off. When I walked back into the room (approximately 30 minutes later), the "Press A button" stayed on the screen for about 10 seconds after watching another show.


I was expecting it to stay there for two weeks like everybody has been saying. Guess I'm lucky.


I'm going to leave Planet Earth playing for two hours just in case there's a little IR remaining. Hopefully that'll wash it out.


----------



## LastQuestion

I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm somewhat disappointed. More than half of everyone who's given feedback about IR haven't even mentioned their model# or brand. Almost NOONE mentions whether or not they have the pixel orbiter enabled. Those that do often do not say what cycle the orbiter is running on. As much as you think your feedback on IR helps not including these details severely degrades the value and usefulness of your input. Let alone whether or not your input is even pertinent to the actual issue of IR/BI and PDP panels when not including this information.


It would also help if more people add what picture mode they're using and brightness/contrast/color more thoroughly.


----------



## LastQuestion

My turn to contribute: I just got my p42gt25 today. After doing some initial setup in which I put the picture mode on THX(CONT60/BRIT59) and the pixel orbiter on a 1min cycle I played 9hrs of gears of war 2. About 7hours of it was Annex which has a very constant circular score counter of deep black and white there for the whole match. The other 2hrs were Execution which only has the black rectangle for your 'weapon' which is present in all gametypes. During my gaming session I did not notice any IR whatsoever.


However, I did a more thorough check with the break-in slides. The result of this is that I can barely see some IR with the dark grey slide. I can also see it in the white but if I didn't know what I was looking for I don't think I would've noticed. I have no doubt that this IR will fade and with some proper phosphor aging that it will fade even quicker in the future.


Perhaps the Panasonic gt25 is special or the IR varies from set to set. It's also possible that some people have their pixel orbiter on auto or not enabled at all(which I've seen people post "Oh, it seems the pixel orbiter wasn't on") or even that they forgot to put the orbiter back on after doing their break-in. There's a whole host of variables that ARE possible within this thread because so many have failed to specify in their posts what their settings are.


All I really know right now is that I spent 9hours of hardcore non-stop gaming on a plasma with 0hours and barely have any IR.


----------



## NickSP

Upon playing with settings on my 54G10 for m

any months, these settings are resulting in less and less IR with absolutely NO Burn in.


Picture Custom:

Contrast: 55

Brightness: 45

Color: 48

Tint: -4

Sharpness: 20


The IR culprits are contrast and Sharpness. The sharpness setting does very little to the IQ but seems to only enhance "edge" sharpness which contributes to IR.


----------



## LastQuestion

So, the IR that I got from 9 straight hours of Gears of War 2 is gone. After my 9hr session I added another 1hr 30min of gaming via Halo:Reach. I then ran slides(30s interval cont50/brit50 orbiter 1m) for about an hour while watching netflix on my PC. I did another hour of slides in the morning and have watched 30 Days of Night which is 113 minutes in letterbox.


My settings are still the same as before and it seems all the worry I had from reading this thread was completely unfounded. I'm still going to do a break-in though because I'd like to dabble in diy calibration and it should help lessen the slight phosphor trailing I see when gaming.


It does trouble me though that so many people seem to have IR issues. It troubles me because my curiosity wants to know how many of these problems are due to brand, tech, or user error but the information just isn't available to allow a sure conclusion. All that can be clearly determined currently is that my GT25 does not have the IR described in this thread by other forum members.


I'll do an update on my IR when I start doing my heavy gaming after my first 200-300hrs of operation or I might wait until the Gears3 Beta begins on April the 18th. It should be interesting to see how much IR I can accrue through gaming 5-8hrs a day 5-7 days a week for 1-2wks. In any case I'm no longer worried about whether or not my preferred choice of entertainment will agree with my new plasma.


I also think the best advice to be given to someone looking to buy a plasma, or a new plasma owner, who is concerned and looking into BI/IR is to be highly skeptical of the information you gather when it lacks details.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastQuestion* /forum/post/20176121
> 
> 
> I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm somewhat disappointed. More than half of everyone who's given feedback about IR haven't even mentioned their model# or brand. Almost NOONE mentions whether or not they have the pixel orbiter enabled. Those that do often do not say what cycle the orbiter is running on. As much as you think your feedback on IR helps not including these details severely degrades the value and usefulness of your input. Let alone whether or not your input is even pertinent to the actual issue of IR/BI and PDP panels when not including this information.
> 
> 
> It would also help if more people add what picture mode they're using and brightness/contrast/color more thoroughly.


_Hai,i think you took all the words from my mouth,yes,even i used think what you have said...Most of the topics on plasma panels,particularly on IR & Image Burn-In there is some vital points usually missing.I hope most if not all who has plasma's for 2 to 4 years will help new to plasma technology like us with information about their settings.

I have a panny 50inches plasma that is hardly one month old and what is most funny is that it does not have any Anti image burn tools ? And i have searched it every where in the settings.

And i have observed one thing is that the more i use the break in slides i see faint patches of mild red & faint green patches here and there.So i have come to a opinion that modern plasma panels are ready to use type.And i have stopped the break in slides and have started watching movies in full screen(i.e without any black bars) and the red & the green tints are reducing gradually.God i would have damaged my panel if i had run those slides non-stop for 100 hours.

And by the way what i have realized is that what works for one might not work for the another...


And these are my settings :


picture user mode : Normal


Contrast : 46

Brightness : -6 (Minus Six)

colour : 32

Sharpness : 4

Tint : 0


Vivid Mode : Off


Colour Balance : Normal.(i.e Cool or Warm)Settings


P dnr : Off


Intelligent frame creation : off


And in case if i have missed any settings info,i will add it tomorrow !


And If you ask me about the picture quality of my panny plasma i would simply say they rock.And never regreated about buying it or recomanding it to my friends & relatives,If iam going to buy another tv say 55 or 60 inches it would also be a plasma panel & wish you all the best with your plasma panel...


Love,

kris._


----------



## LastQuestion

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_Hai,i think you took all the words from my mouth,yes,even i used think what you have said...Most of the topics on plasma panels,particularly on IR & Image Burn-In there is some vital points usually missing.I hope most if not all who has plasma's for 2 to 4 years will help new to plasma technology like us with information about their settings.
_
It's good to know I'm not the only one that has experienced some frustration with this.
Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_

I have a panny 50inches plasma that is hardly one month old and what is most funny is that it does not have any Anti image burn tools ? And i have searched it every where in the settings.
_
I didn't think they would make a plasma without IR tools. You can probably find out for sure by chatting with panasonic support though. The IR tools on my pany GT25 are located under a wrench icon at the very bottom of the menu. Hope that helps you find what you need.


----------



## Lord_Spanky

st30 owner here ..


is it safe for me to run the 1080p breakin slideshow continuously for days ??


so far its been running about 16 hour straight ..


should i cut the tv off for a while and give it a rest or can the tv be left on for a week straight ??


thanks


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20199380
> 
> 
> st30 owner here ..
> 
> 
> is it safe for me to run the 1080p breakin slideshow continuously for days ??
> 
> 
> so far its been running about 16 hour straight ..
> 
> 
> should i cut the tv off for a while and give it a rest or can the tv be left on for a week straight ??
> 
> 
> thanks



Yeah it's safe, but why in the world would you want to do it?


----------



## Lord_Spanky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20199407
> 
> 
> Yeah it's safe, but why in the world would you want to do it?



i just want to get through the breakin slides asap ..


i realize i can watch tv here and there in between running slides ..


but i am renovating my home .. and im too busy to watch tv .. so i figure i might as well just run the slides if nothing else ..


would prefer that by the time my house is done next week my tv is also done breaking in so i can go enjoy movies in full widescreen and videogames ..


so its safe .. ok .. thats what im doing then











btw .. the tv definately suffers from significant IR atm .. if something really bright is left on the screen for even a few seconds it stays there for a minute afterward ..


based on my experience with gt25s .. this effect is greatly diminished after the breakin period ..


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastQuestion* /forum/post/20190903
> 
> 
> So, the IR that I got from 9 straight hours of Gears of War 2 is gone. After my 9hr session I added another 1hr 30min of gaming via Halo:Reach. I then ran slides(30s interval cont50/brit50 orbiter 1m) for about an hour while watching netflix on my PC. I did another hour of slides in the morning and have watched 30 Days of Night which is 113 minutes in letterbox.
> 
> 
> My settings are still the same as before and it seems all the worry I had from reading this thread was completely unfounded. I'm still going to do a break-in though because I'd like to dabble in diy calibration and it should help lessen the slight phosphor trailing I see when gaming.
> 
> 
> It does trouble me though that so many people seem to have IR issues. It troubles me because my curiosity wants to know how many of these problems are due to brand, tech, or user error but the information just isn't available to allow a sure conclusion. All that can be clearly determined currently is that my GT25 does not have the IR described in this thread by other forum members.
> 
> 
> I'll do an update on my IR when I start doing my heavy gaming after my first 200-300hrs of operation or I might wait until the Gears3 Beta begins on April the 18th. It should be interesting to see how much IR I can accrue through gaming 5-8hrs a day 5-7 days a week for 1-2wks. In any case I'm no longer worried about whether or not my preferred choice of entertainment will agree with my new plasma.
> 
> 
> I also think the best advice to be given to someone looking to buy a plasma, or a new plasma owner, who is concerned and looking into BI/IR is to be highly skeptical of the information you gather when it lacks details.



It still happens. IR is no ghost story. I started to believe my GT25 was perfect, too, after hours of Black Ops MP with no IR whatsoever.


But after leaving a static Netflix on for a very short time, I started seeing Xbox symbols in the background. Sure, they go away quickly... however, I noticed now that it's happened once, it seems more prone to IR. I don't get why, but that's what I'm seeing.


It's not that bad, but it's worse than it was when I first got the TV.


----------



## LastQuestion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/20203398
> 
> 
> It still happens. IR is no ghost story. I started to believe my GT25 was perfect, too, after hours of Black Ops MP with no IR whatsoever.
> 
> 
> But after leaving a static Netflix on for a very short time, I started seeing Xbox symbols in the background. Sure, they go away quickly... however, I noticed now that it's happened once, it seems more prone to IR. I don't get why, but that's what I'm seeing.
> 
> 
> It's not that bad, but it's worse than it was when I first got the TV.



Weird, you didn't happen to up the contrast and brightness later on? Perhaps it was always like this but until you noticed it you didn't really actively look for it? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws for myself, wanting my gt25 to continue to be a perfect dream.







Well, I doubt I'll ever be completely comfortable with my gt25's IR until it's really stressed by my time playing the Gears3 Beta. That will definitely an interesting few weeks and I'll be damned if I let some fears about IR keep me from enjoying it!


----------



## 80sGuy

IR and Burn-Ins -- if you carefully look for them, they shall appear.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20199380
> 
> 
> st30 owner here ..
> 
> 
> is it safe for me to run the 1080p breakin slideshow continuously for days ??
> 
> 
> so far its been running about 16 hour straight ..
> 
> 
> should i cut the tv off for a while and give it a rest or can the tv be left on for a week straight ??
> 
> 
> thanks


_Hi,


I have a gut feeling that our new plasma panels are supposed to last for at least 10 to 12 years before they reach their half life(i.e dimming of the panel's brightness)But by making the plasma's run day & night,24x7 to reach that 100 or 200 hrs will certainly wear away the caps,power regulater circuits & also the life of the panel itself...until and unless you live in very cold region of the world or your tv has a dedicated airconditioner to keep its circuits cool round the clock.And iam just reminded of the computer server room.


My earnest suggestion to all will be kindly watch full frame movies with action and lots of fast moving visuals from a dvd or BD feed for 250 hrs or one year.And after that use this plasma as your regular t.v


And one thing that i have noticed is that when i switch on my plasma and immediately view feed from my PC or view the set up section of my plasma

they do live behind some I.R which disappears when i watch movies for 2 to 3 minutes.the same does not happen when the panel is hot or warmed up after 2 hours of movie watching.So if you are setting up your add on players like dvd,BD or Hdmi Receivers,Hdmi PC do so only when the plasma panel is well warmed up.


I would say even run break in sildes when the panel is well warmed up to get a even aging of the panel,or else you might end up with mild patches of red & yellowish green here & there...as i have experienced.


Hope this helps !










Love,

kris._


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastQuestion* /forum/post/20197313
> 
> 
> I didn't think they would make a plasma without IR tools. You can probably find out for sure by chatting with panasonic support though. The IR tools on my pany GT25 are located under a wrench icon at the very bottom of the menu. Hope that helps you find what you need.


_Hi,


Thanks for taking time to reply,but i did not find any spanner or wrench icon in my settings menu.And i have asked this question to my panny dealer before buying this panel and even recently when i visited this brand shop to see any new models have arrived,on that occasion they told me just use this tv as a lcd tv and don't worry and panel as it is guaranteed for a span of 3 years.

And even these guys(Panasonic plasma dealers) don't know where the I.R tools are in the set menu section.

And my plasma is not a 3D model.I think only high end models have these features.Ours is a V series exclusively marketed for south east asia.

And by the way i will keep you informed how my panel is doing in the months to come.


Love,

kris._


----------



## Lord_Spanky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20204532
> 
> _Hi,
> 
> 
> I have a gut feeling that our new plasma panels are supposed to last for at least 10 to 12 years before they reach their half life(i.e dimming of the panel's brightness)But by making the plasma's run day & night,24x7 to reach that 100 or 200 hrs will certainly wear away the caps,power regulater circuits & also the life of the panel itself...until and unless you live in very cold region of the world or your tv has a dedicated airconditioner to keep its circuits cool round the clock.And iam just reminded of the computer server room.
> 
> 
> My earnest suggestion to all will be kindly watch full frame movies with action and lots of fast moving visuals from a dvd or BD feed for 250 hrs or one year.And after that use this plasma as your regular t.v
> 
> 
> And one thing that i have noticed is that when i switch on my plasma and immediately view feed from my PC or view the set up section of my plasma
> 
> they do live behind some I.R which disappears when i watch movies for 2 to 3 minutes.the same does not happen when the panel is hot or warmed up after 2 hours of movie watching.So if you are setting up your add on players like dvd,BD or Hdmi Receivers,Hdmi PC do so only when the plasma panel is well warmed up.
> 
> 
> I would say even run break in sildes when the panel is well warmed up to get a even aging of the panel,or else you might end up with mild patches of red & yellowish green here & there...as i have experienced.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris._



this is certainly sound advice .. ty ..


however its just not practical for me ..


this is my regular/only tv .. and while i can wait 200 hours before using it as such .. i cant wait a year .. heheh ..


btw its the number of times that circuitry is heated and cooled that ultimately causes damage/wear ..


everytime that happens expansion and contraction occurs ..


the tv reaches its peak heat out put within a couple hours of being turned on ..


so then whats the difference between leaving it on for 3 hours vs 24 hours ??


sooner or later it has to be turned off and eventually turned on again ..


and the heating cooling process as i said is where the damage occurs ..


as long as the temperature reaches a stable level during on time then leaving it on for further amounts of time will not hurt it ..


eventually you have to get past the break in to watch wide frame movies and play video games ..


i simply wont wait 2 months to slowly work up 200 hours ..


and 200 hours is 200 hours .. only if you turn your tv on and off 20x more by doing it your way you are actually aging the tv further than buy getting your 200ish hours in around a week .. and you get to use your tv as you wish sooner ..











im not sure what you meant by the color patches .. did you mean that running slides before the tv is warmed up will cause this ??


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20205033
> 
> 
> this is certainly sound advice .. ty ..
> 
> 
> however its just not practical for me ..
> 
> 
> this is my regular/only tv .. and while i can wait 200 hours before using it as such .. i cant wait a year .. heheh ..
> 
> 
> btw its the number of times that circuitry is heated and cooled that ultimately causes damage/wear ..
> 
> 
> everytime that happens expansion and contraction occurs ..
> 
> 
> the tv reaches its peak heat out put within a couple hours of being turned on ..
> 
> 
> so then whats the difference between leaving it on for 3 hours vs 24 hours ??
> 
> 
> sooner or later it has to be turned off and eventually turned on again ..
> 
> 
> and the heating cooling process as i said is where the damage occurs ..
> 
> 
> as long as the temperature reaches a stable level during on time then leaving it on for further amounts of time will not hurt it ..
> 
> 
> eventually you have to get past the break in to watch wide frame movies and play video games ..
> 
> 
> i simply wont wait 2 months to slowly work up 200 hours ..
> 
> 
> and 200 hours is 200 hours .. only if you turn your tv on and off 20x more by doing it your way you are actually aging the tv further than buy getting your 200ish hours in around a week .. and you get to use your tv as you wish sooner ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im not sure what you meant by the color patches .. did you mean that running slides before the tv is warmed up will cause this ??



Sound advice? You must be joking.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20205033
> 
> 
> this is certainly sound advice .. ty ..
> 
> 
> however its just not practical for me ..
> 
> 
> this is my regular/only tv .. and while i can wait 200 hours before using it as such .. i cant wait a year .. heheh ..
> 
> 
> btw its the number of times that circuitry is heated and cooled that ultimately causes damage/wear ..
> 
> 
> everytime that happens expansion and contraction occurs ..
> 
> 
> the tv reaches its peak heat out put within a couple hours of being turned on ..
> 
> 
> so then whats the difference between leaving it on for 3 hours vs 24 hours ??
> 
> 
> sooner or later it has to be turned off and eventually turned on again ..
> 
> 
> and the heating cooling process as i said is where the damage occurs ..
> 
> 
> as long as the temperature reaches a stable level during on time then leaving it on for further amounts of time will not hurt it ..
> 
> 
> eventually you have to get past the break in to watch wide frame movies and play video games ..
> 
> 
> i simply wont wait 2 months to slowly work up 200 hours ..
> 
> 
> and 200 hours is 200 hours .. only if you turn your tv on and off 20x more by doing it your way you are actually aging the tv further than buy getting your 200ish hours in around a week .. and you get to use your tv as you wish sooner ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im not sure what you meant by the color patches .. did you mean that running slides before the tv is warmed up will cause this ??


_Hi,


I do understand what you have said..And iam using my plasma primarily to watch HD movies...And i have few Crt's to view DTH broadcast.So there is no pressure that i must use my new plasma for watching tv broadcast.


And yes the color patches that i mentioned did occur when i did color slide show on a cold start up.Luckily they are gradually fading away...


And most of regulars here have said that they have experienced Burn in & I.R even after putting 200 to 250 hours of viewing in their plasma's !

But in my case i will be using my panny only for watching HD movies,And i don't play video games either.


And wish you good luck with your method of aging the plasma panel.


Love,

kris.
_


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20209675
> 
> _Hi,...
> 
> 
> ....And most of regulars here have said that they have experienced Burn in & I.R even after putting 200 to 250 hours of viewing in their plasma's !
> 
> But in my case i will be using my panny only for watching HD movies,And i don't play video games either....
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.
> _



Smart move.


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20209843
> 
> 
> Smart move.



so 2822 posts and 3 years later....technologies did not change.........


i watch HD programs and there a lego right down


and play games sometimes.


My movies (SD) have almost all black bar......so i will have paranoia for burn in and some ir all the times and do wash out here and then?


so i got stay away of plasma ?


ty


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Come again franky?


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20210827
> 
> 
> ^^Come again franky?




you too 80sGuy ?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20210812
> 
> 
> so 2822 posts and 3 years later....technologies did not change.........
> 
> 
> i watch HD programs and there a lego right down
> 
> 
> and play games sometimes.
> 
> 
> My movies (SD) have almost all black bar......so i will have paranoia for burn in and some ir all the times and do wash out here and then?
> 
> 
> "so i got stay away of plasma" ?
> 
> 
> ty


_Hi,


The choice is your's to stay with plasma or to move on to precision dimming full L.E.D Tv technology ! When i went to buy my plasma tv i did see a variety of products from LCD,LED,Plasma and 3D panels.My eyes felt easy with plasma picture quality and also knowing fully well of I.R & Burn-In,more power consumption compared to LED tv's,etc..I bought it.

And i was also surprised to see the thickness of the Neo PDP panel on par with the regular LCD tv's,My plasma is just 25Kg without its stand,And the panel glass is jet black Matt and for a moment one would think its a LCD Tv no glare at all from surrounding light objects,etc..And the brightness is on par with regular LCD Tv's !


And 2011 plasmas are bound to be even better.










Love,

kris._


----------



## Lord_Spanky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* 
It still happens. IR is no ghost story. I started to believe my GT25 was perfect, too, after hours of Black Ops MP with no IR whatsoever.


But after leaving a static Netflix on for a very short time, I started seeing Xbox symbols in the background. Sure, they go away quickly... however, I noticed now that it's happened once, it seems more prone to IR. I don't get why, but that's what I'm seeing.


It's not that bad, but it's worse than it was when I first got the TV.
you just werent paying close enough attention to your tv at first ..


ir gets better over time not worse ..


i can verify this peronally having payed close attention to ir on both my gt25s before and after break in ..


----------



## xMiTx

While running break in slides, through usb or DVD, the left most three rows of pixels keep shutting off. Any idea why this is happening? If I restart the TV and the DVD they come back on but shut off after a few minutes again. Defect? Or the slides them selves?


Note, if I take the break in dvd out, after running it for a few minutes to make the pixels shut off, and replace it with another DVD the pixels stay off. They only come back on when the TV is restarted.


The model is a Samsung Plasma PN50C675 which is, from what Samsung tells me, exactly the same internally as the PN50C680. Has same build dates, place, model numbers, and firmware. So any ideas here?


----------



## Lord_Spanky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xMiTx* /forum/post/20215959
> 
> 
> While running break in slides, through usb or DVD, the left most three rows of pixels keep shutting off. Any idea why this is happening? If I restart the TV and the DVD they come back on but shut off after a few minutes again. Defect? Or the slides them selves?
> 
> 
> Note, if I take the break in dvd out, after running it for a few minutes to make the pixels shut off, and replace it with another DVD the pixels stay off. They only come back on when the TV is restarted.
> 
> 
> The model is a Samsung Plasma PN50C675 which is, from what Samsung tells me, exactly the same internally as the PN50C680. Has same build dates, place, model numbers, and firmware. So any ideas here?



does this effect occur with any other source material .. hd cable .. blurays or dvds played on the same device .. game console .. etc ??


----------



## xMiTx

It was a pixel shift option to combat screen burn, just had to turn it off and all is good.


Is the burn in disc of choice still the "eaprogramming" DVD / usb slides?


Also do the slides contain more colors or is it just that the DVD puts up the colors at random?


What speed should you set the slide to on the usb slideshow if going that route?


----------



## Lord_Spanky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *xMiTx* 
It was a pixel shift option to combat screen burn, just had to turn it off and all is good.


Is the burn in disc of choice still the "eaprogramming" DVD / usb slides?


Also do the slides contain more colors or is it just that the DVD puts up the colors at random?


What speed should you set the slide to on the usb slideshow if going that route?
i was wondering the same thing ..


i just have my slideshow settings on default ..


i am uncertain about contrast too ..


some say low .. others say vivid mode for slide shows is safe and fast ..


i tend to lean toward caution and set my contrast on the low side ..


----------



## xMiTx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20217171
> 
> 
> i was wondering the same thing ..
> 
> 
> i just have my slideshow settings on default ..
> 
> 
> i am uncertain about contrast too ..
> 
> 
> some say low .. others say vivid mode for slide shows is safe and fast ..
> 
> 
> i tend to lean toward caution and set my contrast on the low side ..



Well for the Sammy I read in another thread to keep the light 5 and below and everything else around 50% or lower. I have my contrast at 50. (out of 100)


----------



## Lord_Spanky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xMiTx* /forum/post/20217205
> 
> 
> Well for the Sammy I read in another thread to keep the light 5 and below and everything else around 50% or lower. I have my contrast at 50. (out of 100)



i got mine at 35/100


my panel brightness is set to low .. dunno if thats the same thing as "light" level on sammys ..


----------



## Lord_Spanky

i just put my settings at the following ..


100 contrast

50 brightness

70 color

50 sharpness


based roughly on D-Nice's breakin settings for the slides i happen to be using ..


found here ..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441 


i had already logged 70 hours with the previous settings ..


i will probably run the slides with these settings for another 100 before i call it quit ..


----------



## xMiTx

Cant seem to find panel brightness, but there is a color tone, have that at warm2, dont think it really makes a difference there. They have cool, normal, warm, warm 2. Looks like it just changes the way the colors look. Anyone know if this is correct or not? Is there some guide to break in settings for the PN50C680/PN50C675, doesn't seem to be in the owners thread.


----------



## Lord_Spanky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xMiTx* /forum/post/20217434
> 
> 
> Cant seem to find panel brightness, but there is a color tone, have that at warm2, dont think it really makes a difference there. They have cool, normal, warm, warm 2. Looks like it just changes the way the colors look. Anyone know if this is correct or not? Is there some guide to break in settings for the PN50C680/PN50C675, doesn't seem to be in the owners thread.



i can only adjust my panel brightness in custom mode .. maybe that will point you in the right direction on your sammy ..


i dont think color temperature matters much for breakin slides .. but i would go ahead and go cool ..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441


----------



## xMiTx

Any reason for this? Cool sounds the least intrusive or what? lol


----------



## xMiTx

Should pixel shift be turned off during burn in?


I am seeing a white spot the size of a quarter that is lighter than the rest of the tv. This showed up after about 24 hours of running the slides. Any idea what this is? And will it go away?


Is it ok to run the slides straight through for 100 hours or should you turn the tv off and let it rest?


----------



## NightmarePatrol

I just ordered the Samsung PN64D8000 today. Since I spent a good chunk of change on it I want to treat it right. I did call Samsung and ask them about it. They told me that I should enable the pixel shift as burn in was not an issue with this set.


----------



## Dathon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *NightmarePatrol* 
I just ordered the Samsung PN64D8000 today. Since I spent a good chunk of change on it I want to treat it right. I did call Samsung and ask them about it. They told me that I should enable the pixel shift as burn in was not an issue with this set.
They told you to *enable* pixel shift, yet burn-in was *not* an issue with the tv? That doesn't make sense. Be warned that pixel shift is only available in 16:9 mode and crops about 25-30 pixels from each side of the display on Samsung TV's. I've verified this on my PN58C550 and my friends Samsung, using the test chart on Spears&Munsil blu-ray. Personally I use Native mode where pixel shift is not available and turned off. This shows the full 1920x1080 image. It is unacceptable for Samsung to be cropping 25-30 pixels from each side of the screen, and this is also not adjustable.


----------



## Dathon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *xMiTx* 
Cant seem to find panel brightness, but there is a color tone, have that at warm2, dont think it really makes a difference there. They have cool, normal, warm, warm 2. Looks like it just changes the way the colors look. Anyone know if this is correct or not? Is there some guide to break in settings for the PN50C680/PN50C675, doesn't seem to be in the owners thread.
That's because break-in is not needed any more. That's why it's not in the manual. Just use the tv normally, get a calibration disc and calibrate it to normal levels instead of using Vivid mode, and use good judgement when watching stuff. I've done long gaming sessions of 3-4 hours with a game that has a bright HUD on the screen most of the time, and when I was finished I didn't notice any hint of image retention.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *NightmarePatrol* 
I just ordered the Samsung PN64D8000...


... They told me that I should enable the pixel shift as burn in was not an issue with this set.
Don't ever believe that burn-in is not an issue, you can still get burn-ins with ANY plasma if you are not careful, especially during the first 200 hours. Any bright static symbol or logo like MSNBC, ESPN, Stock Ticker you leave on the screen for long periods of time will give you permanent burn-in. Pixel shift is designed to reduce Image Retentions which in fact is a temporary burn, any longer than the average would be a 'burn', it's just a different stage for the same flaw....kind of like turning HIV into full-blown AIDS -- not funny, but true.


----------



## offthatop

Hello this is my first post here, and i never knew that it was a good idea to break in your plasma tv's



I just bought a Panasonic TC-P50X3 last weekend and ihavent even took it out the box yet...


I plan on watching netflix and ps3 games(mostly cOd black ops) and also plan on using my pc hooked up to the tv...


We dont have cable so we only have local channels and i keep reading about static images.


I dont understand what to do and now im nervous about owning a plasma tv cuz i always heard bad things about video games and burn in images



But i got it for a great price (624.11 price match at best buy)



So my question is What are the exact steps i should do?



Should i not use my ps3 for like the first month? i cant just leave the tv as i dont live there now and only come and go for a few minutes at a time.. bought it cuz im going through a break up and moving back home at end of april.


can someone please help me in detail? or should i just return this beast and go with a smaller lcd


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Just enjoy your TV, but first things first: lower your Contrast and Brightness settings to under 50%!

For the first two months or approximately 200 hours, if you are watching SD programs, ZOOM the picture to cover the entire screen. Try to avoid bright static images for prolonged periods of time (especially ESPN sports). Flipping channels during commercials also help the phosphors to burn evenly. You will see image retentions during dark scenes but they should go away shortly, some might take longer than others.


I received my G25 on the first week of February 2011 and based on my calculation, I should have about 375 hours worth of viewing time logged and to this day I'm still trying to avoid all the things mentioned above -- or at least till the 1000 hour period. I did ran the slides and 'snow' for 36 hour straight due to a slight burn-in from setting up my new receiver. The Onscreen Display menu lit up like fireworks, along with its overly bright characters set on a dimmed background plastered across my screen -- the biggest and the brightest one that read DENON decided to stay. All it took was about 25 minutes and to this day, I can still see the burn if I look carefully, but only not as bad as before. So I'm anticipating that the mark would eventually dissipate as the set ages.


Based on my experience, you should be fine if you follow the basic guidelines/posts from the many forum members and from the things I mentioned...and I'd recommend keeping your set because the 'picture quality' of a plasma cannot be duplicated, even from today's best LCD/LED displays.


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20235224
> 
> 
> ^^Just enjoy your TV, but first things first: lower your Contrast and Brightness settings to under 50%!
> 
> For the first two months or approximately 200 hours, if you are watching SD programs, ZOOM the picture to cover the entire screen. Try to avoid bright static images for prolonged periods of time (especially ESPN sports). Flipping channels during commercials also help the phosphors to burn evenly. You will see image retentions during dark scenes but they should go away shortly, some might take longer than others.
> 
> 
> I received my G25 on the first week of February 2011 and based on my calculation, I should have about 375 hours worth of viewing time logged and to this day I'm still trying to avoid all the things mentioned above -- or at least till the 1000 hour period. I did ran the slides and 'snow' for 36 hour straight due to a slight burn-in from setting up my new receiver. The Onscreen Display menu lit up like fireworks, along with its overly bright characters set on a dimmed background plastered across my screen -- the biggest and the brightest one that read DENON decided to stay. All it took was about 25 minutes and to this day, I can still see the burn if I look carefully, but only not as bad as before. So I'm anticipating that the mark would eventually dissipate as the set ages.
> 
> 
> Based on my experience, you should be fine if you follow the basic guidelines/posts from the many forum members and from the things I mentioned...and I'd recommend keeping your set because the 'picture quality' of a plasma cannot be duplicated, even from today's best LCD/LED displays.



You do not need to lower brightness and contrast to some arbitrary level. Get a calibration disc use it and forget the snake oil advice.


----------



## offthatop

This confuses the hell out of me, i didnt think that buying a tv i needed to baby it










i mean really? if i just use the tv as its intended to watch tv and play games i can screw the screen up? wow 2 months is a long time if i do get a burn in image then its past my 30 day period to return the tv.... this is overwhelming as hell


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *offthatop* /forum/post/20235618
> 
> 
> This confuses the hell out of me, i didnt think that buying a tv i needed to baby it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i mean really? if i just use the tv as its intended to watch tv and play games i can screw the screen up? wow 2 months is a long time if i do get a burn in image then its past my 30 day period to return the tv.... this is overwhelming as hell



There is a lot of confusion between temp IR and perm Burn in. I had a cartoon network logo that took 2 weeks to go away and I thought that was perm burn.

Yeah there is a lot of paranoia here about babying your TV and those that baby their TVs have had problems too. Just enjoy the damn thing.


----------



## PersianImmortal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20235328
> 
> 
> You do not need to lower brightness and contrast to some arbitrary level. Get a calibration disc use it and forget the snake oil advice.



Agreed. Use viewable settings from the get-go. As long as you're not setting it to Dynamic/Shop mode or at 100 contrast for regular viewing, things should be fine.


And 1000 hours? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Even 100 hours is not absolutely necessary, but not particularly harmful if you want to play it safe. 1,000 hours is equivalent to an entire year at around 3 hours a day. There's no way on Earth that anyone should, or would need to 'burn in' their plasma for an entire year before using it normally. That's just plain nonsense.


My first plasma, a 2005 Pana PV500 (720p) only had an initial 100 hours of run-in, and since then has run 5+ years without any hint of long-term IR or burn-in whatsoever. It's been used to watch a variety of material, including several hour stretches of movies and TV shows with black bars around them (e.g. three continuous hours of 4:3 Star Trek blu-rays). It's still going strong at my parent's house without a problem.


My new P50V20A Panasonic is undergoing a safety period of 100 hours, where I make sure only fullscreen content is viewed, no static logos, no gaming/HUDs, no black bars. After that, I'll be using it normally as before.


----------



## nickverto




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/20232975
> 
> 
> They told you to *enable* pixel shift, yet burn-in was *not* an issue with the tv? That doesn't make sense. Be warned that pixel shift is only available in 16:9 mode and crops about 25-30 pixels from each side of the display on Samsung TV's. I've verified this on my PN58C550 and my friends Samsung, using the test chart on Spears&Munsil blu-ray. Personally I use Native mode where pixel shift is not available and turned off. This shows the full 1920x1080 image. It is unacceptable for Samsung to be cropping 25-30 pixels from each side of the screen, and this is also not adjustable.



Here is what the manual has about Pixel Shift on the Samsung PN64D7000.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

I've been reading so much on this topic it's starting to make my head hurt. Our Samsung PN64D8000 is on order and will be here around April 19 if the vendor gets their shipment on time. Our TV will most likely be on for upwards of 14 hours a day since my wife is a stay at home mother. I can't asked to watch a looping slide show for a week or certainly not two months, I also don't want to damage the unit either. I suspect the pixel shift will be enabled, contrast and brightness will be turned down and she'll be watching it.


I do wonder how many people are going to have IR or burn in because of watching a show while surfing facebook for extended periods?


----------



## franky932

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_Hi,


The choice is your's to stay with plasma or to move on to precision dimming full L.E.D Tv technology ! When i went to buy my plasma tv i did see a variety of products from LCD,LED,Plasma and 3D panels.My eyes felt easy with plasma picture quality and also knowing fully well of I.R & Burn-In,more power consumption compared to LED tv's,etc..I bought it.

And i was also surprised to see the thickness of the Neo PDP panel on par with the regular LCD tv's,My plasma is just 25Kg without its stand,And the panel glass is jet black Matt and for a moment one would think its a LCD Tv no glare at all from surrounding light objects,etc..And the brightness is on par with regular LCD Tv's !


And 2011 plasmas are bound to be even better.










Love,

kris._
*

2011 better,?* where did you read this?........the tread began in 2008 and dont see any improvement after all 2851+posts......


if a company stand up and said garanty (warranty) 100 or replacement......... (if there is a problem).......AND that the first year that ir or burning is something of the past in their site or dont exist ...i will buy one tomorrow.


i went to some stores and all sellers said if there is a problem about that....good luck.


at least they where honest.
*

have a good day all.........




























*


----------



## NightmarePatrol

So does anyone have any good recommendations for what the initial contrast/brightness/other settings for a 2011 PN64D8000 should be? It seems the timetable has grown very short for me as the trucking company has rescheduled delivery from Thursday to tomorrow. I don't even have any hdmi cables yet! Guess what I'll be doing Monday morning!


----------



## gerianne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NightmarePatrol* /forum/post/20245436
> 
> 
> I've been reading so much on this topic it's starting to make my head hurt. Our Samsung PN64D8000 is on order and will be here around April 19 if the vendor gets their shipment on time. Our TV will most likely be on for upwards of 14 hours a day since my wife is a stay at home mother. I can't asked to watch a looping slide show for a week or certainly not two months, I also don't want to damage the unit either. I suspect the pixel shift will be enabled, contrast and brightness will be turned down and she'll be watching it.
> 
> 
> I do wonder how many people are going to have IR or burn in because of watching a show while surfing facebook for extended periods?



Hi,


As long as you pay attention to just a few details (that you've already mentioned), you won't damage the TV. You might want to take a look at strategy #2 in my blog , but you've definitely got the idea (if you're not planning to use break-in slides).


Feel free to send me a PM if you need some further info, and I'll be happy to try and help.


Best regards, and enjoy your new HDTV!

Greg


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20246314
> 
> *
> 
> 2011 better,?* where did you read this?........the tread began in 2008 and dont see any improvement after all 2851+posts......
> 
> 
> if a company stand up and said garanty (warranty) 100 or replacement......... (if there is a problem).......AND that the first year that ir or burning is something of the past in their site or dont exist ...i will buy one tomorrow.
> 
> 
> i went to some stores and all sellers said if there is a problem about that....good luck.
> 
> 
> at least they where honest.
> *
> 
> have a good day all.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


_Dear Franky,


I watched videos in Youtube on the latest line up of panny 2011 plasma models...They indeed look great compared to the 2010 models.Since they were not available here in S.E Asia rightaway i had to settle for the v20 series and i do not want Pip or 3D and panny has Japanese technology.So i settled for that model.And as i have told earlier my Plasma is primary used for watching only movies.


Kindly visit to the following link to see videos on the latest pnansonic plasmas..

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...asma+2011&aq=2 


And when i purchased my panny the Panasonic brand shop staff said that Burn-in is a thing of the past.But when i read the catalog in the first page itself the company clearly states that Burn-in in not covered by warranty.Other than that the entire product is covered by 3 years warranty against manufacture defect of any kind.And my plasma does not have any image pixel orbiter or slider etc.But i do not have to worry because i use my plasma tv for watching only movies.And most of the times we do not leave our tv's working unattended.i.e when we leave the hall,we switch off the tv.

And i have even stopped using break-in color slides,And we use our plasma hardly 2 to 3 hours a day to watch movies.

And by the way if you are not satisfied with your plasma,and its technology its time you returned your product for a LCD/LED tv.


Love,

kris._


----------



## Jason0626

I have a Panasonic 50pz700u that is a few years old already. when i first got it i "broke" it in and am always careful not to leave static images on the screen for long periods of time. i regularly game on it and haven't had any issues. any images that remain usually disappear after a short time. however, on saturday i played a new game for only about an hour and a half and there is definitely an image that remains. i can only see it on light/white/grey screens and it actually has a slight yellow color to it.


any recommendations on how to remove this? is this now permanent. i will be honest i tried searching through this thread but it is massive. thank you for the help


----------



## LastQuestion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jason0626* /forum/post/20253758
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic 50pz700u that is a few years old already. when i first got it i "broke" it in and am always careful not to leave static images on the screen for long periods of time. i regularly game on it and haven't had any issues. any images that remain usually disappear after a short time. however, on saturday i played a new game for only about an hour and a half and there is definitely an image that remains. i can only see it on light/white/grey screens and it actually has a slight yellow color to it.
> 
> 
> any recommendations on how to remove this? is this now permanent. i will be honest i tried searching through this thread but it is massive. thank you for the help



I had some lasting IR from Gears2 that I was having trouble getting rid of with slides on 50/50 contr/brit. I decided to give the scrolling bars a go and then did some slides for an hour or so on Vivid. It seems to have gotten rid of it quite thoroughly.


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20253088
> 
> _Dear Franky,
> 
> 
> I watched videos in Youtube on the latest line up of panny 2011 plasma models...They indeed look great compared to the 2010 models.Since they were not available here in S.E Asia rightaway i had to settle for the v20 series and i do not want Pip or 3D and panny has Japanese technology.So i settled for that model.And as i have told earlier my Plasma is primary used for watching only movies.
> 
> 
> Kindly visit to the following link to see videos on the latest pnansonic plasmas..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...asma+2011&aq=2
> 
> 
> And when i purchased my panny the Panasonic brand shop staff said that Burn-in is a thing of the past.But when i read the catalog in the first page itself the company clearly states that Burn-in in not covered by warranty.Other than that the entire product is covered by 3 years warranty against manufacture defect of any kind.And my plasma does not have any image pixel orbiter or slider etc.But i do not have to worry because i use my plasma tv for watching only movies.And most of the times we do not leave our tv's working unattended.i.e when we leave the hall,we switch off the tv.
> 
> And i have even stopped using break-in color slides,And we use our plasma hardly 2 to 3 hours a day to watch movies.
> 
> And by the way if you are not satisfied with your plasma,and its technology its time you returned your product for a LCD/LED tv.
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris._



This plasma on you tube is 720P.


i dont use a tv just for movies. if it is full screen 16x9 in a dark problem there is no problem.


i use to my pc too , and many HD or all programming have a logo. so plasma is not for me.


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## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastQuestion* /forum/post/20254739
> 
> 
> I had some lasting IR from Gears2 that I was having trouble getting rid of with slides on 50/50 contr/brit. I decided to give the scrolling bars a go and then did some slides for an hour or so on Vivid. It seems to have gotten rid of it quite thoroughly.



well someone with a plasma had to watch and never forgot when leaving a room or....


where are in 2011 and add to do a breaking etc etc. so plasmas is good *for 16x9 full screen*. *and not in a bright room.*

*it as a good picture.* but it's nervous with what whe do with it.


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* /forum/post/20244936
> 
> 
> Agreed. Use viewable settings from the get-go. As long as you're not setting it to Dynamic/Shop mode or at 100 contrast for regular viewing, things should be fine.
> 
> 
> And 1000 hours? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Even 100 hours is not absolutely necessary, but not particularly harmful if you want to play it safe. 1,000 hours is equivalent to an entire year at around 3 hours a day. There's no way on Earth that anyone should, or would need to 'burn in' their plasma for an entire year before using it normally. That's just plain nonsense.
> 
> 
> My first plasma, a 2005 Pana PV500 (720p) only had an initial 100 hours of run-in, and since then has run 5+ years without any hint of long-term IR or burn-in whatsoever. It's been used to watch a variety of material, including several hour stretches of movies and TV shows with black bars around them (e.g. three continuous hours of 4:3 Star Trek blu-rays). It's still going strong at my parent's house without a problem.
> 
> 
> My new P50V20A Panasonic is undergoing a safety period of 100 hours, where I make sure only fullscreen content is viewed, no static logos, no gaming/HUDs, no black bars. After that, I'll be using it normally as before.



Exactly. They keep selling the BS and people keep buying it and complaining (Randy W as an example) about those of us who call them on it.


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## PersianImmortal

I think a big part of the problem comes down to the fact that people go to extremes when it comes to discussing burn-in.


One extreme is where people say that plasmas are "virtually burn-in proof", and that we shouldn't worry about it at all. This view is negated by the fact that as more and more people game on their plasmas, they report burn-in through bright static HUD elements. Plasmas are not burn-in proof, so in my opinion they should NOT be used for things like long periods of gaming, or extended periods of showing any static content with high contrast settings.


At the other extreme are the LCD/LED fans who make up all sorts of fearmongering stories about Plasmas showing burn-in at the drop of a hat, and use this as an excuse to promote their particular technology choice over plasma. This is equally as nonsensical as the first viewpoint - plasmas do not get burn-in if used normally, especially for viewing movies.


People still report burn-in after countless hours of break-in with slides, and equally, some people never formally break-in their set and report no burn-in. So based on the evidence, the key issue comes down to HOW you use your plasma, not whether you break it in for 100, 200, 1,000 or 1 million hours.


Watching a variety of content with normal settings and not leaving static images on the screen for extended periods will always guarantee your plasma is safe from burn-in - modern plasmas do not burn-in very easily. If you want to game, or watch hours of a particular channel with static logos for example, then it may be better to get an LCD/LED for piece of mind. No amount of break-in voodoo is going to make a plasma completely burn-in proof, especially for high contrast static content which is repeatedly viewed on the set.


----------



## LastQuestion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20254792
> 
> 
> well someone with a plasma had to watch and never forgot when leaving a room or....
> 
> 
> where are in 2011 and add to do a breaking etc etc. so plasmas is good *for 16x9 full screen*. *and not in a bright room.*
> 
> *it as a good picture.* but it's nervous with what whe do with it.



Heh, I'd be all up in arms about it too except for gaming you just can't beat the input lag on the gt25. Also, being careful with electronics isn't anything out of the ordinary for me. To some extent I enjoy it. Then again, I lose track of time just as easily tweaking my PC as I do gaming or reading. I suppose there's more than one way to 'enjoy' a plasma than just watching it. hehe


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## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* /forum/post/20258068
> 
> 
> I think a big part of the problem comes down to the fact that people go to extremes when it comes to discussing burn-in.
> 
> 
> One extreme is where people say that plasmas are "virtually burn-in proof", and that we shouldn't worry about it at all. This view is negated by the fact that as more and more people game on their plasmas, they report burn-in through bright static HUD elements. Plasmas are not burn-in proof, so in my opinion they should NOT be used for things like long periods of gaming, or extended periods of showing any static content with high contrast settings.
> 
> 
> At the other extreme are the LCD/LED fans who make up all sorts of fearmongering stories about Plasmas showing burn-in at the drop of a hat, and use this as an excuse to promote their particular technology choice over plasma. This is equally as nonsensical as the first viewpoint - plasmas do not get burn-in if used normally, especially for viewing movies.
> 
> 
> People still report burn-in after countless hours of break-in with slides, and equally, some people never formally break-in their set and report no burn-in. So based on the evidence, the key issue comes down to HOW you use your plasma, not whether you break it in for 100, 200, 1,000 or 1 million hours.
> 
> 
> Watching a variety of content with normal settings and not leaving static images on the screen for extended periods will always guarantee your plasma is safe from burn-in - modern plasmas do not burn-in very easily. If you want to game, or watch hours of a particular channel with static logos for example, then it may be better to get an LCD/LED for piece of mind. No amount of break-in voodoo is going to make a plasma completely burn-in proof, especially for high contrast static content which is repeatedly viewed on the set.


_Well Said !
_


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## Johnla

All I can say is, you gamers would have really had a lot of problems back in the days where there was only TV sets with CRT picture tubes available. If you think you are having problems with burn-in on a plasma, you have no idea how easy it was to get a burn-in with CRT based sets. A plasma set is based on phosphor technology, similar to like CRT sets are. And any set that uses a phosphor technology will be susceptible to burn-in if it's used in certain ways. Only difference is now, a plasma set can often times usually take more abuse than a CRT set could before it presents a problem.


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## PersianImmortal

For most of the history of personal computers, the monitors used have all been CRT-based. CRT monitors are indeed susceptible to burn-in, which is why screen savers became popular as a form of protection. However being an avid PC gamer for over three decades now, I've never once recalled, after playing a particular game for several hours at a time, anything remotely close to noticeable IR on my CRT monitors, and certainly no permanent burn-in. In other words, it was possible but not common on CRTs. LCD monitors have of course made it even harder to get any serious image retention.


Personally, I would not game on a plasma (easy enough for me as I'm a PC gamer anyway). I've read too many cases of people getting burn-in/uneven wear from gaming on a plasma. It's easy to get carried away if you're having a great time, and not notice that you've been playing for several hours with multiple static elements on the screen. Unless you can disable the HUD and crosshairs such that the entire screen doesn't have static elements, I wouldn't do it. Breaking in the TV for 100 hours won't protect against this.


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## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* /forum/post/20258509
> 
> 
> In other words, it was possible but not common on CRTs.



HOGWASH! There are numerous owners of CRT based RPTV's that would strongly disagree with you on that! With burn-in problems ranging from, heavy use of video game systems, the black bars from watching 4:3 content on widescreen CRT RPTV's, and also those idiotic TV station logos that are forced upon viewers.


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## 80sGuy

^^I have a 27" Panasonic TAU Pure Flat 4:3 Tube Display (circa 2002) and I can testify to the beautiful burn lines from a decade of watching rented blockbuster letterboxed videos.


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## champy on

Not to interrupt any discussion, but what I want to make sure I run the slides right.

The TV is the 64d8000 Sammy


I am currently running the slide show with the following settings (slide show is on the slowest setting):


Dynamic mode

Cell light: 20 (Max)

Contrast: 100

Brightness: 50

Sharpness: 50

Color: 70

Pixel shift is off


Let me know if I should change anything


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## banditws6

I'm also particularly interested in burn-in susceptibility on modern plasmas vs. CRT, especially CRT-based widescreen rear projection TVs. I've been gaming quite heavily on a 2002 widescreen CRT RPTV for almost a decade and the set has absolutely zero burn-in today. I believe this is due to a combination of factors:


1. Properly calibrating the set from day one

2. Watching a variety of content and almost never anything with 4:3 bars

3. Utilizing screen saver on game consoles where available


I'm looking to upgrade to a 59" plasma in the next couple of weeks, and given my past usage patterns on my RPTV, I don't have any anxiety about it -- based on the assumption that 2011 model plasma TVs are no more susceptible to burn-in than my old set, of course!


The big question is: Can I presume that assumption is correct?


----------



## stm69

Well, I guess this is the right thread to ask in.


What can one do about uneven phospor wear? It's not IR unfortunately.... I guess that's what happens when you use a 4:3 background on a 16:9 screen.


I've run the break-in dvd and the built-in pioneer bar for a day or so.


----------



## PersianImmortal

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Johnla* 
HOGWASH! There are numerous owners of CRT based RPTV's that would strongly disagree with you on that! With burn-in problems ranging from, heavy use of video game systems, the black bars from watching 4:3 content on widescreen CRT RPTV's, and also those idiotic TV station logos that are forced upon viewers.
My family and I have owned many CRTs, I've also been gaming very heavily on CRT-based monitors since the 80's up until 2005, and not once, repeat not a single time, have I ever seen any noticeable IR, much less permanent burn-in on a CRT. I said it was difficult, not impossible - *abuse any TV, even an LCD, with enough high contrast repetitious content and you will get IR/burn-in*.


Once again, this issue is relatively simple in my opinion:


- watch a variety of content so that the entire screen is used fairly evenly

- don't use very high contrast settings

- don't view any content with static portions for long periods, especially if done repeatedly over several weeks/months/years


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## Johnla

Quote:

Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* 
I said it was difficult, not impossible
Difficult, not hardly. Try telling the many people that have had it happen to them, that it was difficult. Just everyday viewing can do it, things like those TV station logos can be a big problem if you watch a certain channel a majority of the time.


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## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* /forum/post/20269523
> 
> 
> 
> ...*abuse any TV, even an LCD, with enough high contrast repetitious content and you will get IR/burn-in*...



You can't get Burn-Ins on LCDs no matter what because LCD panels are not phosphor-based, you might suffer from some image-retention or even perhaps a few dead pixels from abuse but not permanent burns.


----------



## PersianImmortal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20270216
> 
> 
> You can't get Burn-Ins on LCDs no matter what because LCD panels are not phosphor-based, you might suffer from some image-retention or even perhaps a few dead pixels from abuse but not permanent burns.



Yes, which is why I said IR/burn-in. On LCDs, you can get noticeable image retention if static content is viewed long enough. E.g.:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1062110 
http://www.pregamelobby.com/home-the...nyone-had.html 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/20269554
> 
> 
> Difficult, not hardly. Try telling the many people that have had it happen to them, that it was difficult. Just everyday viewing can do it, things like those TV station logos can be a big problem if you watch a certain channel a majority of the time.



Once again, this is nonsense. It was very difficult to get burn-in on CRT, which is precisely why the average person, having watched CRTs for most of their life, now has such a hard time accepting the concept of burn-in on plasmas and has such a fear of it. If it's as common as you suggest then people would be quite used to burn-in and wouldn't be at all surprised and fearful about it occurring on plasma as they seem to be.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* /forum/post/20273097
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, this is nonsense. It was very difficult to get burn-in on CRT,




No, you are wrong, it is not nonsense, and it definitely is NOT very difficult to get burn-in on a CRT based set! In fact it is rather easy to get burn-in on a CRT set, I know six people with CRT RPTV's that have it to varying degrees. Some have it from the black bars while watching a lot 4:3 content on a widescreen set, others caused by black bars from a lot of letter box content, and also a few with a burned in CBS station logo from watching a lot of content on their local CBS station. Their wives love for all the various CSI shows on CBS and also their lead in shows, probably was a big help with that happening.


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## PersianImmortal

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Johnla* 
In fact it is rather easy to get burn-in on a CRT set
I repeat: this is absolute nonsense. Burn-in is not "easy to get" on CRTs; this entire thread stands as evidence that the vast majority of people, who would be completely used to CRTs growing up, are constantly finding the concept of burn-in surprising and confusing on plasma.


CRT RPTVs are an extreme example, because they require extremely bright light emission to make the projected image viewable. This makes them much more susceptible to burn-in than any normal CRT, precisely because, as I've mentioned earlier, very high contrast images are a recipe for burn-in regardless of any break-in voodoo.


Also, here is an image of burn-in on an LCD to further solidify what I said earlier about LCDs being prone to IR/burn-in if abused enough:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Em...NN_Burn-In.jpg 


I'll leave it at that, as it's getting quite off topic in a Plasma break-in thread.


The point, as before, is that an entire myth and ethos has been built-up over plasma burn-in, to the point where people are doing 1,000 hour break in periods! I contend again that it's down to HOW people use the TV, not the amount of break-in, that's the critical issue. Bright contrasty static images shown repeatedly greatly increases the chance for burn-in regardless of the break-in period.


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## kris achar

_Dear Friends,


Johnla & Persian Immortal I must say both of you have some valid points but i must add that in our house we have one Sony trinitron 34 inches Crt tv(made in japan) in which we have seen video with variety of content,with lots of logos and 16:9/letter box content in it and i have never experienced any image retention or burn in effect.So i would say Sony Crt's were very less susceptible to such problems.

And after reading this thread for quite sometime,iam determined to test my one month old Panny plasma 50 inches.So i have allowed my wife to watch here tv serials & soaps in our plasma tv.Yes it has bright channel logos in it.For the past one week i was experimenting watching these channels for 30 minutes each,Since my wife watches serials from different channels having there station logos in different locations.And the soaps have lots of commercial break for every 6 minutes duration,during that time their is no logos at all for about 40 seconds or so.

And she watches the tv for no more than 1hour and 15 minutes.i.e ones here programs are over she switches the tv in stand-by.

And as i have told earlier at nights i relax watching movies from DVD's or BD's set at full screen.i.e no black bars !

I will let you know what happens to the panel....









By the way i have stopped using the burn in slides completely,i do not want to waste time,elec power and have no intention of aging my plasma panel,let it age through regular use.And in 3 to 4 years time new technology are bound to come.At that time this plasma could be replaced..


And i remember one member repeatedly saying "Stop worrying and start living" i.e use your plasma Tv like any ordinary Crt Tv.










Love,

kris._


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## Johnla

Quote:

Originally Posted by *PersianImmortal* 
I repeat: this is absolute nonsense. Burn-in is not "easy to get" on CRTs;
And to that, I say BS!


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NightmarePatrol* /forum/post/20249238
> 
> 
> So does anyone have any good recommendations for what the initial contrast/brightness/other settings for a 2011 PN64D8000 should be? It seems the timetable has grown very short for me as the trucking company has rescheduled delivery from Thursday to tomorrow. I don't even have any hdmi cables yet! Guess what I'll be doing Monday morning!



Hi Nightmare,


I'm worried a bit about this myself. I have a 64D7000 set to arrive this week. On top of that, I like to game some, so I have that worry, as well. After all I've read I am only certain of one thing: this topic seems to start ****-storms aplenty







. I've resigned myself to try and and just use some common sense. A few PM's to some other plasma owners helped me as well.


While I intend to calibrate with a meter later, I'm just going to calibrate to my eyes on a test disk to start. I think realistic colors and blacks without torch mode just makes sense from a cautious standpoint- not to mention it looks so much better anyway and torch mode gives me a headache







. I'm going to stick to full HD early on while keeping the letterbox and pillar box stuff to a minimum. Break in slides? Well, I can follow the logic, but I'd worry about a disc jamming or something and getting burn-in that way.


I'll use pixel shift for gaming as a rule. It just makes sense to me that a group of pixels burning bright without changing for a few hours would lead to IR or burn-in regardless of "break-in". This shifting should change that around every 4 minutes, and I hope will help; I don't see how it can hurt. Early on, I think I'll keep the gaming short just to be safe. I think for normal watching pixel shift doesn't make sense, because most of the images are moving anyway, though it might not be a bad idea for Sportscenter.


I think the above will allow me to enjoy the TV without stressing. I have enough of that as it is. Hell, if we can't use it like we want to out of fear, then to me it's not worth spending what a big plasma costs these days. It's supposed to be a TV, not a baby. Better off with an LCD if that's the case. Some of what I read here makes me think that anyway. Too many sh*tstorms for my tatse. Sheeesh!


How are you liking your D8000 so far? That's what it's all about anyway!!


----------



## Mrbenjamins

I've had my D7000 only 3 days and I'm already experiencing some problems with IR and or burn in. I've had all my settings on very low levels and also ran slides for a few hours when I first received the set. Today I decided to try the 360 for about an hour and it resulted in some IR from the matchmaking menu after only ten minutes in the menus. It's now almost 2 hours later and the images lines are still visible after watching hd programming and running scrolling greys from the picture menu. I really love the picture on this tv and haven't experienced any other problems until this happened. This is my introduction into the plasma tv world from LCD and 2 different samsung models so far and I'm a bit concerned...


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mrbenjamins* /forum/post/20291041
> 
> 
> I've had my D7000 only 3 days and I'm already experiencing some problems with IR and or burn in. I've had all my settings on very low levels and also ran slides for a few hours when I first received the set. Today I decided to try the 360 for about an hour and it resulted in some IR from the matchmaking menu after only ten minutes in the menus. It's now almost 2 hours later and the images lines are still visible after watching hd programming and running scrolling greys from the picture menu. I really love the picture on this tv and haven't experienced any other problems until this happened. This is my introduction into the plasma tv world from LCD and 2 different samsung models so far and I'm a bit concerned...



Awww crap!!!


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mrbenjamins* /forum/post/20291041
> 
> 
> I've had my D7000 only 3 days and I'm already experiencing some problems with IR and or burn in. I've had all my settings on very low levels and also ran slides for a few hours when I first received the set. Today I decided to try the 360 for about an hour and it resulted in some IR from the matchmaking menu after only ten minutes in the menus. It's now almost 2 hours later and the images lines are still visible after watching hd programming and running scrolling greys from the picture menu. I really love the picture on this tv and haven't experienced any other problems until this happened. This is my introduction into the plasma tv world from LCD and 2 different samsung models so far and I'm a bit concerned...



Don't worry to much. Your IR is not permanant and will go away if you watch TV in full resolution. Make sure you are not in vivid i.e. torch mode and your sharpness settings are low initially. Don't run too much of the whitewash either. Just make sure your pixel orbiter is on and enjoy our new TV,


----------



## nadrojcote

So I didn't really feel like reading through this whole thread, I thought posting my question would be faster.


I recently bought a demo tv from my work the other day. Its a 50" Panasonic G25 with a nasty burn in. Not image retention. It was left on for many days in a row with a Queen concert disc in and "QUEEN ROCK MONTREAL" is burnt into the screen.


I have tried the break in slides for roughly 10 hours and its still there. It is noticeable during normal tv watching and I am hoping I can get rid of it. Now if I can't its not a huge deal as I didnt pay a lot for the tv.


Is there any thing other than the break in slides that works good for removing burn in?


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nadrojcote* /forum/post/20292920
> 
> 
> So I didn't really feel like reading through this whole thread, I thought posting my question would be faster.
> 
> 
> I recently bought a demo tv from my work the other day. Its a 50" Panasonic G25 with a nasty burn in. Not image retention. It was left on for many days in a row with a Queen concert disc in and "QUEEN ROCK MONTREAL" is burnt into the screen.
> 
> 
> I have tried the break in slides for roughly 10 hours and its still there. It is noticeable during normal tv watching and I am hoping I can get rid of it. Now if I can't its not a huge deal as I didnt pay a lot for the tv.
> 
> 
> Is there any thing other than the break in slides that works good for removing burn in?



From what I've gathered, that and just watching full, native HD 16:9 content MIGHT do it. As it turns out, burn-in is permanent and IR is temporary. I've read on this thread it will normally take about the same amount of time doing the above two (any combination). If it was left on for days, it should take close to the same amount of hours of use. After that, if it goes away it was IR. If it does not go away- permanent burn-in.







So... basically, if say Queen was on screen all day for 3 days, that's 72 hours, so it's going to take close to 72 hours of use before you know which one you have. I would think it's burn-in, though. From everything I read on this thread, whoever owned that TV did the worst thing a person could do to cause burn-in.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20291313
> 
> 
> Awww crap!!!



Hey Ben,


Try the "pixel shift" function and you might check out game mode, too. Obviously, I don't have my D7000 yet, so I'm just suggesting what I'm *hoping* will work. Just use the "find" function in your E-manual PDF for your model. You should be able to find it at: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...PN64D7000FFXZA .... I'm with Nick, though. After reading this thread it's unlikely you have anything other than IR that should go away.


----------



## nadrojcote




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20293317
> 
> 
> From what I've gathered, that and just watching full, native HD 16:9 content MIGHT do it. As it turns out, burn-in is permanent and IR is temporary. I've read on this thread it will normally take about the same amount of time doing the above two (any combination). If it was left on for days, it should take close to the same amount of hours of use. After that, if it goes away it was IR. If it does not go away- permanent burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So... basically, if say Queen was on screen all day for 3 days, that's 72 hours, so it's going to take close to 72 hours of use before you know which one you have. I would think it's burn-in, though. From everything I read on this thread, whoever owned that TV did the worst thing a person could do to cause burn-in.



It's definitely burn in, once we found it in the store we let it play for about a month on a different blu ray and it didn't wash it out. Mind you that was another concert blu ray that was mainly dark scenes. I plan on leaving the image slide show running everyday when I go to work and checking it when I get home. Hopefully it will wash out a bit.


----------



## Mrbenjamins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry to much. Your IR is not permanant and will go away if you watch TV in full resolution. Make sure you are not in vivid i.e. torch mode and your sharpness settings are low initially. Don't run too much of the whitewash either. Just make sure your pixel orbiter is on and enjoy our new TV,



Thanks for the reply most of the IR I was concerned about has faded away through the night. I have turned most of the picture settings to extremely low like you have suggested since day 1 which was Saturday. Cell light is only on 5 when gaming or watching sports with a ticker. The lines that caused the IR were bright white menu bars in matchmaking which was only left on screen for about 10 minutes. Is pixel orbiter the same as pixel shift? I have to say besides this issue I'm enjoying this set very much.


----------



## Mrbenjamins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ben,
> 
> 
> Try the "pixel shift" function and you might check out game mode, too. Obviously, I don't have my D7000 yet, so I'm just suggesting what I'm hoping will work. Just use the "find" function in your E-manual PDF for your model. You should be able to find it at: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...PN64D7000FFXZA .... I'm with Nick, though. After reading this thread it's unlikely you have anything other than IR that should go away.



Thanks for the info


Pixel shift has been turned on prior to all this, I have not tried gaming mode yet what is the advantage of using it? The e manual is very handy kudos to samsung for that. This is a beautiful set and has a great picture your gonna really like it. This morning most of the image is gone but I can still see it barely when turning the set. Hoping it all goes away soon and this doesn't happen in the future GOW3 Beta is next week probably gonna be doing quite a bit of gaming.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mrbenjamins* /forum/post/20293799
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info
> 
> 
> Pixel shift has been turned on prior to all this, I have not tried gaming mode yet what is the advantage of using it? The e manual is very handy kudos to samsung for that. This is a beautiful set and has a great picture your gonna really like it. This morning most of the image is gone but I can still see it barely when turning the set. Hoping it all goes away soon and this doesn't happen in the future GOW3 Beta is next week probably gonna be doing quite a bit of gaming.



Glad to hear it. I'm really looking forward to getting it. As far as gaming mode is concerned, I'm not sure if it will really help or not. I know it's elsewhere in the menus somewhere- not a picture preset. My understanding is it turns off a lot of the processing to minimize input lag and goes off a picture preset that is supposed to be more conducive to gaming. Whether that is good or bad I don't know myself. You might just search for it in the e-manual and see what you think. I plan on gaming some myself, but likely much more once LA Noire comes out. The lineup in the fall is sick. I'll be broke for sure, but hopefully will have my TV broken in so I don't have to worry about burn-in. My guess is we might have some IR to deal with from time time, but as long as it goes away fairly quickly I can deal. I read station logos and tickers are just as bad, and there's no way I'll give up my foot-muh-ball.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nadrojcote* /forum/post/20292920
> 
> 
> 
> ...I recently bought a demo tv from my work the other day. Its a 50" Panasonic G25 with a nasty burn in. Not image retention. It was left on for many days in a row with a Queen concert disc in and "QUEEN ROCK MONTREAL" is burnt into the screen.
> 
> 
> .....its not a huge deal as I didnt pay a lot for the tv....



You can never offset a price for a damaged or flawed product -- new or used, it's either a problem or not, in your case, it seems to be a problem. The burn might or might not go away depending on the severity of it. Contrary to all the theories and beliefs of ridding IR or Burn-In is to leave the set on for an equal amount of time (ie; image left for 2 days, and it'll take 48 hours of regular TV viewing for it to go away) well, I can attest to you that this is NOT true, if so your problem would of been at least solved.


I speak from experience because I once acquired this nasty burn back in Feb. 09, 2011 (or officially IR now) on the top right corner of my screen from setting up my new receiver. All it took was 25 minutes for the bright branding logo to get embedded...BUT...it also didn't take 25 minutes of viewing time for it to go away, it took more than TWO MONTHS. To this day, it is about 99.9% gone.


This is what I did when I discovered the problem:


I did this subsequently and NOT for days straight...dreaded but I had to do it...

1. I ran the slides for 48 Hrs w/ an SD card inserted (Cinema Mode w/ Contrast: 50, Brightness: 50)...then turned Off and rested for the next day.

2. Unplugged the RF to my TV and ran the snow on a blank input for 24 hours. (25% improved up to about now). Off and rested for the next day.

3. Had the Cartoon Network on for 12 hrs in late nights (Zoomed station logo away). Off and rested for the next day.

4. Ran the slides again for another 12 Hrs (Photo Mode w/ Contrast: 96, Brightness: 96). Off and rested for the next day. (about 60% improved now).


By now, I can only see the flaw on panning scenes of grey or bright white backgrounds, such as skies. But I can still easily see it and I usually pull up a slide or two and look for it.


After a month later, I decided to watch my TV with all SD channels zoomed-in. In HD, I watched a lot of Discovery and NatGeo. From time to time I would pull up a slide to do a test search and little by little without being stress-out about it, the logo has pretty much disappeared.


Hope this helps, but again, it depends on how severe the burn is (or IR).


----------



## felix19

I want to test my new Plasma for IR during the first couple of hours by displaying content with black bars for a prolonged time. Did I get this right that the only danger is that the Tv is more prone to burnin during the breakin period,so if there is no visible burnin after the test there wont be any permanent damage?


----------



## 80sGuy

^^According to the manufacturers, the first 200 hours is most crucial and sensitive. You can gather from what happened to me above.


----------



## felix19

Hi,

I think that is due to a difference between sets (in other words yours was defect). Some (very few) are more prone to that stuff and some are not. That's why I believe it's wise to test for IR during the period in which you are still able to return the TV. Because of that I will test for IR during the first couple of hours. If there is no IR then I will just watch the way I want to I guess 30 % cinmascope, 30 % 4/3 and 30 % 16/9. Only problem left (if I there's no IR) is in my opninion uneven aging and that wil only be noticable after years of use, so who cares?


By the way what do you mean by most crucial and sensitive? IR and burnin? Sounds to my like a good plan by the manufacturers to stop the customer from discovering these things before the 30 return policy has run out... Either the set is defective (= prone to IR) or not (=no IR). For example read through the recent thread for the low-end Samsung plasmas, noone has yet reported IR.


----------



## chaslee101

I just bought a LG 50PZ950. I can't seem to find any info about pixel shift function on the TV. Can anyone help me enable it? Thanks in advance.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20295176
> 
> 
> Hi...
> 
> 
> 
> ...By the way what do you mean by most crucial and sensitive? IR and burnin? Sounds to my like a good plan by the manufacturers to stop the customer from discovering these things before the 30 return policy has run out... Either the set is defective (= prone to IR) or not (=no IR). For example read through the recent thread for the low-end Samsung plasmas, noone has yet reported IR.



Burn-ins are more susceptible during the first 200 hours if one is not careful.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chaslee101* /forum/post/20299563
> 
> 
> I just bought a LG 50PZ950. I can't seem to find any info about pixel shift function on the TV. Can anyone help me enable it? Thanks in advance.



Afternoon. You might want to try a forum about an LG television. This is for Samsung Plasmas and I doubt anyone owning a Samsung would be able to provide specific instructions on how to activate an LG feature. I could be wrong, but I would think you have a better chance getting what you're after in an LG plasma forum. Best of luck to you regardless.


----------



## 80sGuy

This thread is for all plasma tvs in general and related to IR/Burn-In issues. But visiting an LG forum for questions about its features and functions might help.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chaslee101* /forum/post/20299563
> 
> 
> I just bought a LG 50PZ950. I can't seem to find any info about pixel shift function on the TV. Can anyone help me enable it? Thanks in advance.



Does the manual mentioned anything about that feature at all for your set?


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20299687
> 
> 
> This thread is for all plasma tvs in general and related to IR/Burn-In issues. But visiting an LG forum for questions about its features and functions might help.



Crap, you're right. Apologies! That's what I get for having 4 forums up at once. I'm the one in the wrong place. Sorry, sorry.....


----------



## chaslee101

I have searched both the hardcopy and the disc and did not find anything. I am wondering if this feature is not on this set. It just said to avoid burn in to not have the black bars for longer than 1 hr which is ridculous if one wants to watch a movie in letterbox.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20299695
> 
> 
> Does the manual mentioned anything about that feature at all for your set?


----------



## chemical360

Yeah, newb here. So I have been told by MANY people that burn in is no longer a big concern with plasma. This is why I have historically gone LCD and now LED. But I am a big gamer and I have been told that Plasma is the way to go, which I have confirmed over and over especailly on this site.


Reading this thread has me concerned because I was on my way to BB to buy a 55" ST30. Are you guys telling me that this is going to be suceptible to permanent burn?


Also, what is this break in period. Do I really have to run my TV for 200 freaking hours without enjoying it using some disc to break it in? IS it really worth owning a plasma if that is true?


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20299931
> 
> 
> Yeah, newb here. So I have been told by MANY people that burn in is no longer a big concern with plasma. This is why I have historically gone LCD and now LED. But I am a big gamer and I have been told that Plasma is the way to go, which I have confirmed over and over especailly on this site.
> 
> 
> Reading this thread has me concerned because I was on my way to BB to buy a 55" ST30. Are you guys telling me that this is going to be suceptible to permanent burn?
> 
> 
> Also, what is this break in period. Do I really have to run my TV for 200 freaking hours without enjoying it using some disc to break it in? IS it really worth owning a plasma if that is true?



Don't go nuts with this process. For the first couple of weeks, make sure your contrast setting is low, sharpness is low and watch TV and movies in true HD i.e. at 1920x1080 and eliminate horizontal and vertical bars.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20299931
> 
> 
> Yeah, newb here. So I have been told by MANY people that burn in is no longer a big concern with plasma. This is why I have historically gone LCD and now LED. But I am a big gamer....
> 
> 
> Reading this thread has me concerned.... Are you guys telling me that this is going to be suceptible to permanent burn?
> 
> 
> Also, what is this break in period. Do I really have to run my TV for 200 freaking hours without enjoying it using some disc to break it in? IS it really worth owning a plasma if that is true?



I'd agree with Nick. I'm a gamer as well, and this will be my first plasma. I too share some of your concerns, but some things you have to take with a grain of salt. This site is wonderful, but recognize there are some serious... I mean... serious videophiles here. That means very demanding expectations and extraordinarily scrutinous eyes, which is great when you read the majority agree positively. When it's negative, however, I think it's important to know where you fit it in







. Are you as demanding and as scrutinous or are you closer to the "average Joe"? I try to keep that in mind when I read here. I'm becoming more of a videophile, but I'm not to the point yet of barely being able to watch someone else's TV without critiquing it.


I've read most of this thread and what I've gathered is that temporary IR is still a risk especially in the first 200 hours, but it will still go away. On the other hand permanent burn-in takes some real neglect and carelessness to get these days. Just use caution, common sense, and follow the community's advice like Nick's. I think if we both do that, we'll be happy with our TV's and happy with gaming on them, too.


----------



## Mrbenjamins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I've read most of this thread and what I've gathered is that temporary IR is still a risk especially in the first 200 hours, but it will still go away. On the other hand permanent burn-in takes some real neglect and carelessness to get these days. Just use caution, common sense, and follow the community's advice like Nick's. I think if we both do that, we'll be happy with our TV's and happy with gaming on them, too.



Pretty much sums it up perfectly


Your gonna have to be more careful with certain games and shows w logo s it's just the chance you take owning a plasma.. I'm loving my D7000 so far only one issue with IR playing 360.


----------



## Electricide




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20299650
> 
> 
> Afternoon. You might want to try a forum about an LG television. This is for Samsung Plasmas and I doubt anyone owning a Samsung would be able to provide specific instructions on how to activate an LG feature. I could be wrong, but I would think you have a better chance getting what you're after in an LG plasma forum. Best of luck to you regardless.




the PZ550 has a pixel shift and some washes. They are in the Options (or is it settings?) menu, not in the Picture control menu.


----------



## felix19




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20300185
> 
> 
> Don't go nuts with this process. For the first couple of weeks, make sure your contrast setting is low, sharpness is low and watch TV and movies in true HD i.e. at 1920x1080 and eliminate horizontal and vertical bars.



Hey that is a swell idea. Better yet do that for exactly 4 weeks then you will find out if your Tv is broken (susceptible to IR like the one of the guy a few posts above) after your exchange policy has run out. Just forget this breakin myth. Burnin is a thing of the past if you do not play a still picture for 48 hours and IR is temporary anyway so why bother?


I will test in the first hours extensively for IR by watching content with black bars and exchange until I get one without IR.


----------



## chemical360

WOW! This is so confusing being new to the AV game. We have some people that are just paranoid, some that are sort of "eh, just do this and your're fine. No big deal."


My wife is friends with a couple of folks that used to work with her at a high end electronics retailer, which went out of business, and they both work with her now at her new job since the manager of that store hired them all on at his new job.


From what they tell me. Burn in is a thing of the past. I had an LED that I just got rid of and replaced it with a 55" ST30. I love the TV, it's capabilites, and how "warm" the screen is. They told me to dump the LED, knowing I am a gamer and get a plasma. They say, don't worry about burn in, that you need to be careless in order for it to happen. This echos someone elses post a few posts above mine.


So which is it? Are today's plasma's still weak and prone to burn in, or "IR?"


Before someone says: "Do your research!" I have, and this is the only site where people SWEAR that plasma's still suffer from the same flaws as they always have and that plasma technology has not improved at all.


Please explain.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20303054
> 
> 
> WOW! This is so confusing being new to the AV game. We have some people that are just paranoid, some that are sort of "eh, just do this and your're fine. No big deal."
> 
> 
> From what they tell me. Burn in is a thing of the past. I had an LED that I just got rid of and replaced it with a 55" ST30. I love the TV, it's capabilites, and how "warm" the screen is. They told me to dump the LED, knowing I am a gamer and get a plasma. They say, don't worry about burn in, that you need to be careless in order for it to happen. This echos someone elses post a few posts above mine.
> 
> 
> So which is it? Are today's plasma's still weak and prone to burn in, or "IR?"
> 
> 
> Before someone says: "Do your research!" I have, and this is the only site where people SWEAR that plasma's still suffer from the same flaws as they always have and that plasma technology has not improved at all.
> 
> 
> Please explain.



As I said, this site is where very serious videophiles come- not exclusively of course, but there's a great deal of them. Where they may see IR with a very trained and scrutinous eye, we see nothing. Everything I've read is a resounding "no" to your question. *IR and and burn-in are both much harder to get now. This statement however excludes the stupid and careless*; there's no helping them so just don't be one of them







. Most folks here simply state that the first 200 hours of any plasma are the hours at any risk due to the phosphor technology they use. It is during this time folks suggest simply being cautious. That's it.... Ask yourself who is more likely to trumpet this with bravado, fear, and paranoia? The average person or the extremely anal retentive videophile (I say this with love and self deprecation)? If you find the only website you can find this concern is "AVS Forum"- the one with a high concentration of anally retentive videophiles capable of picking the specks out of fly ****







, then you have your answer.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20303418
> 
> 
> As I said, this site is where very serious videophiles come- not exclusively of course, but there's a great deal of them. Where they may see IR with a very trained and scrutinous eye, we see nothing. Everything I've read is a resounding "no" to your question. *IR and and burn-in are both much harder to get now. This statement however excludes the stupid and careless*; there's no helping them so just don't be one of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Most folks here simply state that the first 200 hours of any plasma are the hours at any risk due to the phosphor technology they use. It is during this time folks suggest simply being cautious. That's it.... Ask yourself who is more likely to trumpet this with bravado, fear, and paranoia? The average person or the extremely anal retentive videophile (I say this with love and self deprecation)? If you find the only website you can find this concern is "AVS Forum"- the one with a high concentration of anally retentive videophiles capable of picking the specks out of fly ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , then you have your answer.



LMAO!! Indeed, and well said.


I guess it comes down to they are making me paranoid. I have a wife, 3 year old etc... So buying another close to $2000 TV is out of the question. And not being an expert makes me wonder which side is right.


But it does come down to exactly what you said, untrained VS. trained. For me, I am loving the black level where in the beginning of the ST30 thread, people were complaining about the MLL levels? Very odd. I see BLACK, dead as night black. So these levels mean nothing to me at the moment.


Either way, I am taking Bad Company for a spin later this evening regardless of whether the experts say give it two weeks to adjust.


Heck, I am a baseball fan and this is baseball season. There is no way in hell I am not watching the Sox play for two weeks. Sorry.


----------



## felix19

chemical360 it is merely paranoia. I mean, find me someone who got burnin from regular watching or gaming in the last years. You will find only an extremely small number of people if any and their TVs were defect in my opinion, because 99.999999 percent of TVs do not burn in with regular use.IR can still happen but it is rare. Maybe one out of 20 TVs will be prone to IR. That is the reason I am advising you to test for it so you can return it in case it happens.


However burnin is definitely no reason to be careful in the first 200 hours because you would actually have to play a still image for 200 hours to get it. And IR is no reason to be careful either for the reason stated above and because it is temporary.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20303492
> 
> 
> chemical360 it is merely paranoia. I mean, find me someone who got burnin from regular watching or gaming in the last years. You will find only an extremely small number of people if any and their TVs were defect in my opinion, because 99.999999 percent of TVs do not burn in with regular use.IR can still happen but it is rare. Maybe one out of 20 TVs will be prone to IR. That is the reason I am advising you to test for it so you can return it in case it happens.
> 
> 
> However burnin is definitely no reason to be careful in the first 200 hours because you would actually have to play a still image for 200 hours to get it. And IR is no reason to be careful either for the reason stated above and because it is temporary.



Chemical360: Glad we can see some humor in this.... I think Felix's advice makes some sense. Baseball would probably give you a great test for IR. I'm a football fan, so I understand. IF we have a season next year, there's no way fear of IR will keep me from watching my foot-muh-ball next season!


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20303451
> 
> 
> LMAO!! Indeed, and well said.
> 
> 
> I guess it comes down to they are making me paranoid. I have a wife, 3 year old etc... So buying another close to $2000 TV is out of the question. And not being an expert makes me wonder which side is right.
> 
> 
> But it does come down to exactly what you said, untrained VS. trained. For me, I am loving the black level where in the beginning of the ST30 thread, people were complaining about the MLL levels? Very odd. I see BLACK, dead as night black. So these levels mean nothing to me at the moment.
> 
> 
> Either way, I am taking Bad Company for a spin later this evening regardless of whether the experts say give it two weeks to adjust.
> 
> 
> Heck, I am a baseball fan and this is baseball season. There is no way in hell I am not watching the Sox play for two weeks. Sorry.



The MLL complaint is great example of trained vs untrained. I know what they're talking about, b/c I was trying to decide between a Sammy and Panasonic. I went with Sammy, but that's another story; it was not however because of the MLL rising black level though- another good example of picking out the specks. You love the PQ on yours so enjoy it. Be smart and enjoy!!!


----------



## nadrojcote




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20294774
> 
> 
> You can never offset a price for a damaged or flawed product -- new or used, it's either a problem or not, in your case, it seems to be a problem. The burn might or might not go away depending on the severity of it. Contrary to all the theories and beliefs of ridding IR or Burn-In is to leave the set on for an equal amount of time (ie; image left for 2 days, and it'll take 48 hours of regular TV viewing for it to go away) well, I can attest to you that this is NOT true, if so your problem would of been at least solved.
> 
> 
> I speak from experience because I once acquired this nasty burn back in Feb. 09, 2011 (or officially IR now) on the top right corner of my screen from setting up my new receiver. All it took was 25 minutes for the bright branding logo to get embedded...BUT...it also didn't take 25 minutes of viewing time for it to go away, it took more than TWO MONTHS. To this day, it is about 99.9% gone.
> 
> 
> This is what I did when I discovered the problem:
> 
> 
> I did this subsequently and NOT for days straight...dreaded but I had to do it...
> 
> 1. I ran the slides for 48 Hrs w/ an SD card inserted (Cinema Mode w/ Contrast: 50, Brightness: 50)...then turned Off and rested for the next day.
> 
> 2. Unplugged the RF to my TV and ran the snow on a blank input for 24 hours. (25% improved up to about now). Off and rested for the next day.
> 
> 3. Had the Cartoon Network on for 12 hrs in late nights (Zoomed station logo away). Off and rested for the next day.
> 
> 4. Ran the slides again for another 12 Hrs (Photo Mode w/ Contrast: 96, Brightness: 96). Off and rested for the next day. (about 60% improved now).
> 
> 
> By now, I can only see the flaw on panning scenes of grey or bright white backgrounds, such as skies. But I can still easily see it and I usually pull up a slide or two and look for it.
> 
> 
> After a month later, I decided to watch my TV with all SD channels zoomed-in. In HD, I watched a lot of Discovery and NatGeo. From time to time I would pull up a slide to do a test search and little by little without being stress-out about it, the logo has pretty much disappeared.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps, but again, it depends on how severe the burn is (or IR).



Thank you, I will keep trying with the slides. It doesn't seem to be getting any better as of yet. Also my I do not have anything hooked to my coax input so my tv will not let me set it to the snow. I have been using a mutli colored snow dvd I have to try washing it out too with no luck.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20303578
> 
> 
> The MLL complaint is great example of trained vs untrained. I know what they're talking about, b/c I was trying to decide between a Sammy and Panasonic. I went with Sammy, but that's another story; it was not however because of the MLL rising black level though- another good example of picking out the specks. You love the PQ on yours so enjoy it. Be smart and enjoy!!!



Nevermind...


----------



## 80sGuy

Owning a TV is no science and neither one has to be smart nor careful about it, just simple rules to adhere from the handy bible that came along with your set known as the 'Owner's Manual'. The first few pages will tell you exactly what to do to avoid problems such as IR -- which can potentially led to permanent burns in the future. So the first few hundred hours counts.


I was having dinner last night at a restaurant and sat about 10 feet away from a 42" Toshiba Plasma hanging on the wall with the Lakers game on, during transitional scenes and commercial breaks I can see burn-ins of every sort imaginable plastered all over its screen; side pillar burns, horizontal letterboxed burns, static channel logos, scoreboards, and closed captioning shadows, etc...it was horrendous. The funny thing is most of the people that sat with me didn't even realize it until I pointed it out to them. I guess the few hundred hours wasn't applied to that poor TV.


The situation I had with my 25-min incident was unheard of, I mean; what can happen in such little time right? I'm not watching letterboxed contents and certainly not 4:3, but my new receiver at the time when it displayed, not only all its texts contents were bright white but the receiver created a dimmed backdrop so the bright white texts can stand out even more which eventually embedded a text logo image on my screen for more than two months. As I mentioned on other posts, the image was hard to point out and most people wouldn't be able see it even if they tried looking for it. I guess the moral of this post is: if you think about it and look for it, you will find and see it, if you don't then you won't. So, in the first few hundred hours, be cautious and enjoy your new Plasma TV!


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20304492
> 
> 
> Owning a TV is no science and neither one has to be smart nor careful about it, just simple rules to adhere from the handy bible that came along with your set known as the 'Owner's Manual'. The first few pages will tell you exactly what to do to avoid problems such as IR -- which can potentially led to permanent burns in the future. So the first few hundred hours counts.
> 
> 
> I was having dinner last night at a restaurant and sat about 10 feet away from a 42" Toshiba Plasma hanging on the wall with the Lakers game on, during transitional scenes and commercial breaks I can see burn-ins of every sort imaginable plastered all over its screen; side pillar burns, horizontal letterboxed burns, static channel logos, scoreboards, and closed captioning shadows, etc... It was horrendous. I guess the few hundred hours wasn't applied to that poor TV.
> 
> 
> The situation I had with my 25-min incident was unheard of, I mean; what can happen in such little time right? I'm not watching letterboxed contents and certainly not 4:3, but my new receiver at the time when it displayed, not only all its texts contents were bright white but the receiver created a dimmed backdrop so the bright white texts can stand out even more which eventually embedded a text logo image on my screen for more than two months. As I mentioned on other posts, the image was hard to point out and most people wouldn't be able see it even if they tried looking for it. I guess the moral of this post is: if you think about it and look for it, you will find and see it, if you don't then you won't. So, in the first few hundred hours, be cautious and enjoy your new Plasma TV!



I guess what we need to do here is define cautious. I mean, I never leave static images on my screen intentionally. When not being used, it's off, period. When I am watching, I prefer full HD content 1920x1080 etc... However, my son, being 3, enjoys 4:3 content from older childrens programs or childrens programs that are new but don't have a budget for overly expensive HD cameras to film their shows.


In the above case, we get black bars. Now, there is NO WAY I can prevent him from watching TV for 200 hours. It just won't happen. Not even with a 27" LCD in his bedroom. He likes being in the same room with mommy and daddy, which means he watches my TV and only uses his at bedtime to fall asleep.


So, what am I looking at here? I am doing endless amounts of research on this and am finding all kinds of things such as black bars will age the pixels slowly and therefore uneven and eventually, burn in. Others say, don't worry, you're good. Yes still other say, buying a plasma if you are doing anything but watching movies was stupid.


I stress my TV's, it is just who I am. I play games for hours. I watch movies for hours, I watch TV whether it be HD or 4:3 every second I am home. I am a baseball finatic, baseball all the time which means scoreboards. Hell, even when eating dinner, I watch TV. I mean I, for intents and purposes, am an entertainment junky.


This is why I am nervous. This is why your 25 minute incident makes me want to suck up the horrible quality of an LED just so I can relax and not chew my fingers off worrying about what will happen to the screen.


----------



## 80sGuy

There a few things you can do for your kid, and it doesn't mean that you can't watch TV for the first 200 hours. When you are watching TV, you are essentially breaking it in, in all aspects, every minute counts towards the so called 'break-in' period. During those times you might want to 'zoomed' all 4:3 contents to full screen (or fill the pillars gray if you don't want to zoom) and set the brightness/contrast below 50 (or 50%). Turned on the Pixel Orbiter and set it to every 1 minute. The key here is 'variety', if you finish watching a sports channel, tune it to something else to even out your screen so that the static logo from the previous channel (especially ESPN) gets its fair share of phosphor wear. If you want to speed up the procedure, run the slides for an hour or so during times when you or your family is not utilizing the television, ie: before you shower in the morning or during cooking times before dinner.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20304707
> 
> 
> There a few things you can do for your kid, and it doesn't mean that you can't watch TV for the first 200 hours. When you are watching TV, you are essentially breaking it in, in all aspects, every minute counts towards the so called 'break-in' period. During those times you might want to 'zoomed' all 4:3 contents to full screen (or fill the pillars gray if you don't want to zoom) and set the brightness/contrast below 50 (or 50%). Turned on the Pixel Orbiter and set it to every 1 minute. The key here is 'variety', if you finish watching a sports channel, tune it to something else to even out your screen so that the static logo from the previous channel (especially ESPN) gets its fair share of phosphor wear. If you want to speed up the procedure, run the slides for an hour or so during times when you or your family is not utilizing the television, ie: before you shower in the morning or during cooking times before dinner.



I see. Good advice, never even considered zooming. Now, I seen what I belive is the "Pixel Orbiter" I am not sure what it is called in my menu, but I did see it. I will turn that on during his usage and when static images are on screen, like scoreboards.


Good advice here.


One question and I feel stupid asking. I have no idea what "run the slides" means. Can you just give me a quick crash coure on what it is and how to do it?


I appreciate your last post, that was most helpful. Thank you!


----------



## 80sGuy

The "Break-In Slides" as we call it here was introduced by a member named D-Nice I believed. It is a series of colored slides designed to cover and intermittently flow through your entire screen to help even-out phosphor wears and to reduce the chance of any heavy image-retentions (or potential burns). As long as you are watching TV regularly you should be fine without it, but if you think certain channels rendered more of a pronounced IR then maybe the slides will help even the process in the first 200 hours. I only started using it because of my "25-min incident" and with a series of other gimmicks I was able to phase-out the mark.


You can either burned the slides into a DVD-R or save a zip file to an SD card like I did. Afterward, I inserted it to my TV and hit the remote to turned it on as a picture slideshow in loop mode. I left the card in there ever since. For the life of me, I just couldn't find the link anymore, maybe someone here can help.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20304927
> 
> 
> The "Break-In Slides" as we call it here was introduced by a member named D-Nice I believed....
> 
> 
> You can either burned the slides into a DVD-R or save a zip file to an SD card like I did.... For the life of me, I just couldn't find the link anymore, maybe someone here can help.



I think... think... this is it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...15&postcount=1 I'm sure 80's can confirm. I haven't burned it myself yet, but I'm having problems with that on the AVS 709 calibration disc forum trying to get help. I've never done anything to an SD card on my notebook, but would like to. 80's, would you give some general instruction on how to do this? I would appreciate it. Is it as simple as just putting in a blank SD card and copying to media or do you have to use something like ImgBurn?


----------



## 80sGuy

Oh yeah, all you have to do is save the file to your desktop.

Create a folder and name it Break-In-Slides, or similar on your SD card,

Open the zip file and copy all the file slides (not with the zip folder) and paste it to the new 'Break-in' folder in your SD card. Stick it to the side of your tv.


On the tv:

You should be able to push the 'SD CARD' button on the top of your remote and it will launch, then choose PHOTO. When the slides appear, choose the first one and hit ENTER. At this point, make sure you hit 'Menu' from the remote and go to 'Slideshow settings' and set 'Repeat playback' to ON so it can loop endlessly.


Controls from the remote:

You can use the > (play) button to proceed playing for any reason if it didn't start,

>>| to skip it manually.

Press Stop to for the photo menu or hit 'SD CARD' to exit completely and go back to watching TV.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20305292
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, all you have to do is save the file to your desktop.
> 
> Create a folder and name it Break-In-Slides, or similar on your SD card,
> 
> Open the zip file and copy all the file slides (not with the zip folder) and paste it to the new 'Break-in' folder in your SD card. Stick it to the side of your tv.
> 
> 
> On the tv:
> 
> You should be able to push the 'SD CARD' button on the top of your remote and it will launch, then choose PHOTO. When the slides appear, choose the first one and hit ENTER. At this point, make sure you hit 'Menu' from the remote and go to 'Slideshow settings' and set 'Repeat playback' to ON so it can loop endlessly.
> 
> 
> Controls from the remote:
> 
> You can use the > (play) button to proceed playing for any reason if it didn't start,
> 
> >>| to skip it manually.
> 
> Press Stop to for the photo menu or hit 'SD CARD' to exit completely and go back to watching TV.



Thank you 80's!! Does the link I pasted appear correct? It was by D-Nice, but I figured you know since you have it. I'd hate to present it to Chem as the right link if I am in fact wrong.


----------



## 80sGuy

You're welcomed. Yes I believed those were the same images, it's been months since I last looked at the links.


----------



## NickSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by *80sGuy* 
I was having dinner last night at a restaurant and sat about 10 feet away from a 42" Toshiba Plasma hanging on the wall with the Lakers game on, during transitional scenes and commercial breaks I can see burn-ins of every sort imaginable plastered all over its screen; side pillar burns, horizontal letterboxed burns, static channel logos, scoreboards, and closed captioning shadows, etc...it was horrendous. The funny thing is most of the people that sat with me didn't even realize it until I pointed it out to them. I guess the few hundred hours wasn't applied to that poor TV.
80s, were you able to see it during normal viewing on that TV during your dinner or was it only seen momentarily on blank screen?


----------



## felix19

80sguy it does not say anything about breakin in the user manual of my new Samsung so your information is incorrect. You had bad luck with your television it obviusly is broken. Guys just check for extreme IR while you can still exchange the TV. That is much wiser than waiting for 200 hours as there is no proof whatsoever that it will prevent IR. Stop wasting your time with this stuff.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *NickSP* 
80s, were you able to see it during normal viewing on that TV during your dinner or was it only seen momentarily on blank screen?
I can see it on certain scenes, especially during light backgrounds. It was pretty hard to see during the game because of scoreboards, closed captioning was on and there were too many movements and camera panning, but when the break came to commercials it was obvious. I pointed it out my friends otherwise they wouldn't even have noticed it. They were kind of in awe because they couldn't believe things like this can happen to TVs.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *felix19* 
80sguy it does not say anything about breakin in the user manual of my new Samsung so your information is incorrect. You had bad luck with your television it obviusly is broken. Guys just check for extreme IR while you can still exchange the TV. That is much wiser than waiting for 200 hours as there is no proof whatsoever that it will prevent IR. Stop wasting your time with this stuff.
Never once did I mentioned about "break-in slides on Samsung owner's manuals" or ANY plasmas for that matter. I did wrote about telling folks to adhere to the manuals of their set. You can scroll up a few posts or pages and do some re-reading. Also, my TV wasn't defective and I will state that IR and BURN-INS are NOT hard to get. If you look hard enough, you might not like what you find -- being if you are not cautious from the beginning that is.


----------



## felix19

I know exactly what you wrote and it was wrong. Well anyway do you actually believe your TV would not be this extremely prone to IR if you had broken it in? That goes against common sense and sounds like denial to me. Nowadays it is hard to even find a plasma with IR and that has nothing to do with breakin.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *felix19* 
I know exactly what you wrote and it was wrong....
Enlighten me a bit of what I wrote and how was I wrong???

My TV only had one little burn (99% gone by now, but not quite). The situation was a bit different because my TV, Receiver, and 5.1 Speakers were all purchased at the same time, and pretty much arrived all at the same time - given a day or two difference. Unpacking everything at the time was another story but I was too excited about getting everything up and running. After going through all the manuals, starting with the receiver and while setting up Audyssey with the TV on, that's how I got the burn. Waiting after 200 hours without a receiver is a definitely big no no. Honestly, if I even knew what 'broken-in' meant I'd 'probably' could of avoided that blemish, but the manual does not tell you about break-ins, all it stated was to avoid watching 4:3 content, letterboxed content and bright static logos for prolonged periods of time. The manufacturers knew that burn-in on plasmas are still an issue therefore they buried the "burn-ins are not covered" somewhere deep in the warranty section. They considered this to be negligence. Unless I'm holding a cigarette lighter up close enough to 'burn' the screen, I wouldn't call any it negligence.


Quote:

Nowadays it is hard to even find a plasma with IR and that has nothing to do with breakin.
You need to get your head out of your @$$ and look real hard, as a matter of fact, watch ESPN for 30 minutes and look at your Samsung, tell me you won't find a trace of IR. Image-Retentions are the blood and bones of all plasmas, it is phosphor-base and are known to retain after effects of certain images, and if you neglect, you will get burned!


----------



## tjacks84

Quote:

Originally Posted by *felix19* 
80sguy it does not say anything about breakin in the user manual of my new Samsung so your information is incorrect. You had bad luck with your television it obviusly is broken. Guys just check for extreme IR while you can still exchange the TV. That is much wiser than waiting for 200 hours as there is no proof whatsoever that it will prevent IR. Stop wasting your time with this stuff.
Felix, have you checked your E-manual? There are 3 pages about "screen burn" for the PN64D7000 on pages 132, 133, & 134. It does not have anything about break in, but screen burn and specific tools provided by Samsung are covered in several pages to assist in preventing screen burn... well... it certainly does not indicate to me it is something restricted only to defective TV's as you have stated. Also, from the D7000 user manual, I quote,
Quote:

Displaying stationary images for more than 5% of total viewing time can cause

uneven aging of your PDP display and leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the PDP picture. To avoid this, vary the programming and

images, and primarily display full screen moving images, not stationary patterns or dark bars.

On PDP models that offer picture sizing features, use these controls to view different formats as a full screen picture.

Be careful about the television formats you select and the length of time you view them. Uneven PDP aging as a result of format selection and use, as well

as burned in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty.
It's covered in the warranty section and specifically excluded, so again I do not think it is merely restricted to defective TV's. In fact it is excluded by the warranty. We all know manufacturers will write a warranty to protect themselves primarily. All that being said, I still like your idea about trying to return one by testing whether or not it gets IR. It is an interesting thought/ position worth considering with a new PDP. I'll go with break-in slides, however, because that is what most of the ISF and THX certified calibrators recommend in the calibration forums.


Now, the option for using slides and for break in is an opinion shared by many on AVS Forums and it is an opinion/ position that does NOT profess to be a panacea for burn-in or IR; rather, it is meant to give you a means for exercising phospors consistently to "break-in" a TV. The hope then is that it will get one past the more susceptible beginning. A lot of us like to calibrate our TV's and you don't want to do that during the break in period because of those phosphors being so new and how much they fluctuate. You don't believe it. Okay, that's fine. As another poster mentioned, this is a community that allows folks to come here to identify issues/ problems, commonalities, and to seek solutions. It's not self congratulatory. As I read this, providing quotes and page citations from the user and e-manuals, there is an argument supporting 80's Guy pretty darn well- not to mention the 98 pages on this thread about burn in. Let's not start a sh*tstorm. You've stated your position. As with any forum the reader should decide for themselves what they believe and what they will do.


----------



## chemical360

Welp, either way, I am sure I am going to go home today and find out just how tough this 55ST30 really is. My mom is watching my son today and I guarantee, she is going to be watching 4:3 content even though I specificaly stated, please try and stay inside the HD channels and make sure the picture is full screen.


Plus, she watches alot of news type shows with the running bars.


Ugh! I am like chewing my fingers off already thinking about the possible damage.


LOL. This is just no way to live, mang.


----------



## felix19

What I was referring to is that there is nothing about breaking in a TV in the manual as you stated yourself. Of course I know that burnin exists but it will not happen under normal circumstances so there is no need to be cautious about it. There is no need to be cautious about IR anyway because it is temporary by definitiom. That is why I am questioning the use of breaking in slides and such for the reasons 80sfan thinks they are for. They are of course useful as you noted if you want to calibrate your television quickly and not wait until the plasma has aged by itself but as a tool to protect it from damage they are not needed.



I am not saying every TV with a little IR is defective. That is a matter of opinion because on some TVs of the same model there is none and on some is a lot IR so I guess those ones could be called defective or at least they are worse and I would exchange them. However 80sfan has week long IR from displaying a logo for 24 minutes. I would definitely call that defective. Imagine what is going to happen if he plays an entire movie with black bars. I would not hesitate a second to exchange that TV. And if you wait a month it will be too late that is the reason I am so sceptical about being careful in the first period of time after you buy it. There is no proven benefit but the danger of endig up with a defective unit as has 80sfan.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20308762
> 
> 
> What I was referring to is that there is nothing about breaking in a TV in the manual as you stated yourself. Of course I know that burnin exists but it will not happen under normal circumstances so there is no need to be cautious about it. There is no need to be cautious about IR anyway because it is temporary by definitiom. That is why I am questioning the use of breaking in slides and such for the reasons 80sfan thinks they are for. They are of course useful as you noted if you want to calibrate your television quickly and not wait until the plasma has aged by itself but as a tool to protect it from damage they are not needed.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying every TV with a little IR is defective. That is a matter of opinion because on some TVs of the same model there is none and on some is a lot IR so I guess those ones could be called defective or at least they are worse and I would exchange them. However 80sfan has week long IR from displaying a logo for 24 minutes. I would definitely call that defective. Imagine what is going to happen if he plays an entire movie with black bars. I would not hesitate a second to exchange that TV. And if you wait a month it will be too late that is the reason I am so sceptical about being careful in the first period of time after you buy it. There is no proven benefit but the danger of endig up with a defective unit as has 80sfan.



Well, I am not going to pretend to know more than anyone here. I have said that many times and will say it again, I know nothing about the in depth little variances. But I will say this, a 24 minute IR that lasted two months would have me freaking the F out.


This is what got me concerned in the first place. I am by no means being cautious at this point. I am using my TV the way I want to use it and we will see what happens. I don't have time for 200 hours of slides for break in as this is the family TV. So I will use it as I would an LED and see where that takes me. That said, I will be cautious about long term static images such as baseball scoreboards but I will run it with the Pixel Orbiter and hope that this will prevent IR.


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20308937
> 
> 
> I am using my TV the way I want to use it and we will see what happens. I don't have time for 200 hours of slides for break in as this is the family TV. So I will use it as I would an LED and see where that takes me. That said, I will be cautious about long term static images such as baseball scoreboards but I will run it with the Pixel Orbiter and hope that this will prevent IR.



There you go!!! There's all sorts of ways to approach this stuff. What is important is assimilating information and deciding for yourself what is best for you! Good luck!


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20308762
> 
> 
> What I was referring to is that there is nothing about breaking in a TV in the manual as you stated yourself. Of course I know that burnin exists but it will not happen under normal circumstances so there is no need to be cautious about it. There is no need to be cautious about IR anyway because it is temporary by definitiom. That is why I am questioning the use of breaking in slides and such for the reasons 80sfan thinks they are for. They are of course useful as you noted if you want to calibrate your television quickly and not wait until the plasma has aged by itself but as a tool to protect it from damage they are not needed.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying every TV with a little IR is defective. That is a matter of opinion because on some TVs of the same model there is none and on some is a lot IR so I guess those ones could be called defective or at least they are worse and I would exchange them. However 80sfan has week long IR from displaying a logo for 24 minutes. I would definitely call that defective. Imagine what is going to happen if he plays an entire movie with black bars. I would not hesitate a second to exchange that TV. And if you wait a month it will be too late that is the reason I am so sceptical about being careful in the first period of time after you buy it. There is no proven benefit but the danger of endig up with a defective unit as has 80sfan.



Fair points! I would have to say if I had IR that bad after minutes I would try to think of some reason to return, as well. Hopefully, none of us have the problem.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjacks84* /forum/post/20309065
> 
> 
> Fair points! I would have to say if I had IR that bad after minutes I would try to think of some reason to return, as well. Hopefully, none of us have the problem.



Indeed. I think that was Felix's point though. Rather than defend against for the entire length of your "remorse" period, put the TV through the ringer out of the gate and see how it performs.


The Sox are playing tonight. That will be a few hours of a scoreboard in a static location... If I see that screboard after the game is over when watching a movie or playing a game, back to Best Buy it goes.


And before some screams at me for "taking advantage of the system." That is why the law was put in place, to prevent big box retailers from sticking it to their customers as they do already by 100% mark up.


And I gotta tell ya, buying a TV prone to IR and eventually burn in make me incredibly remorseful I bought that set.


----------



## 80sGuy

Great analogy guys.

Again, regarding my 24-min incident; I didn't noticed it towards the end of the third week and going on the fourth. I traced it back because the IR mark says 'Denon' so it's gotta be when I was setting up Audyssey. Like I mentioned before, it is very hard to see and most of us wouldn't even be able to point out at the time, and especially now when it is almost entirely and 99% gone. Seriously, there was not one thought of remorse nor ill-feeling towards my purchase of this TV and certainly the thought of returning the set wasn't feasible considering this was a small problem and ultimately it has pretty much remedied. For the price I paid which totaled to about five Ben Franklins plus four Andrew Jacksons -- it is unheard of and a steal for a 42" Panasonic Plasma!

Returning a perfectly working set would not yield better results and certainly would not reduce your chance of getting IR or Burn-ins; adhering to the first few pages of the manual is key.


The fact is I didn't start to use the slides after the mark was discovered. Also, during those times in the first two hundred hours I was watching mostly DVD movies and many from Netflix streaming. Some covered the screen fully and others with the top/bottom black bars. Some traces of IR were visible and fortunately (after switching to regular TV on full) it didn't marred my set in any way. I can still see image-retentions when I switch inputs (on a blank screen) but it'd always go way quickly once something is on. And a few wise words from the veteran AVS members: "There is no such thing as a perfect TV, not even a Pioneer Kuro." So enjoy and let it break-in naturally.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20307564
> 
> 
> I know exactly what you wrote ....
> 
> 
> ......Nowadays it is hard to even find a plasma with IR and that has nothing to do with breakin.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20307649
> 
> 
> Enlighten me......
> 
> 
> 
> You need to...[censor]....and look real hard, as a matter of fact, watch ESPN for 30 minutes and look at your Samsung, tell me you won't find a trace of IR. Image-Retentions are the blood and bones of all plasmas, it is phosphor-base and are known to retain after effects of certain images, and if you neglect, you will get burned!



Prime example here, I feel sorry for the guy.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&goto=newpost


----------



## hotskins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20307649
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get your head out of your @$$ and look real hard, as a matter of fact, watch ESPN for 30 minutes and look at your Samsung, tell me you won't find a trace of IR. Image-Retentions are the blood and bones of all plasmas, it is phosphor-base and are known to retain after effects of certain images, and if you neglect, you will get burned!



Yes a static image for 30 mins will cause IR but it will be gone the next day.

I have been testing my samsung lately and when I play like 5-6 hour gaming sessions with bejeweled 2 and zumba i get IR. But the next day when I turn on my tv it is gone for some reason. I have done this multiple times and cant explain it


----------



## chemical360

Well as of right now, this ST30 is a trooper. Two straight hours of sprout with the logo in the bottom right as static as can be, Red Sox game and two hours of Battlefield Bad Company 2 and not a trace of IR. I sat here staring at the screen for 10 mins and cannot see anything. Yes, i have Pixel Orbiter going but with all those static graphics for that long, you would think something might happen.


Nope, the Panasonic ST30 is incredibly impressive right now as far as how well it holds up against unavoidable imagery.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20318589
> 
> 
> Well as of right now, this ST30 is a trooper. Two straight hours of sprout with the logo in the bottom right as static as can be, Red Sox game and two hours of Battlefield Bad Company 2 and not a trace of IR. I sat here staring at the screen for 10 mins and cannot see anything. Yes, i have Pixel Orbiter going but with all those static graphics for that long, you would think something might happen.
> 
> 
> Nope, the Panasonic ST30 is incredibly impressive right now as far as how well it holds up against unavoidable imagery.



Not that I want you to have IR ot BI (burn-in) but the real way to see IR or BI is to turn off ALL the lights in the room and then turn your TV on without any input being fed OR,

simply turn your TV off and although you turn your TV off, the phospors will still be active and show you all the BI or IR.

Now if these two tests above don't show you any of those then you are truly in plasma heaven (LOL).

Also, if you don't see any BI or IR while watching TV then you are also at the same place.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20321297
> 
> 
> Not that I want you to have IR ot BI (burn-in) but the real way to see IR or BI is to turn off ALL the lights in the room and then turn your TV on without any input being fed OR,
> 
> simply turn your TV off and although you turn your TV off, the phospors will still be active and show you all the BI or IR.
> 
> Now if these two tests above don't show you any of those then you are truly in plasma heaven (LOL).
> 
> Also, if you don't see any BI or IR while watching TV then you are also at the same place.



Done and done. I ALWAYS play video games in the dark and and though I didn't realize it was a valid test, I switched inputs over to a blank HDMI input (I use HDMI passthroughs) and it showed no IR at all.










Now that I know that was a valid test, I feel a million times better than I did yesterday. Wooohoo! Panasonic rocks!


----------



## hbassi12

I bought a PN507000 over the weekend, and have followed the burn-in slide guidelines.


I have luxury right now all my old sets are doing well and don't need to be replaced, as this tv is for my new house. I have left it on overnight on the slides, Approaching 50 hours of just the slides on the recommended settings. I am planning to do this for 100 hours after that hook up my PS3 and HDTV source to it.


After doing the break in for a 100 what should I watch out for just the letter box dvd's and std. def television shows?


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20321463
> 
> 
> done and done. I always play video games in the dark and and though i didn't realize it was a valid test, i switched inputs over to a blank hdmi input (i use hdmi passthroughs) and it showed no ir at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now that i know that was a valid test, i feel a million times better than i did yesterday. Wooohoo! Panasonic rocks!



niiice! :d


----------



## tjacks84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20322247
> 
> 
> niiice! :d



+1. I'm always glad to hear when someone is happy!!!


----------



## chemical360

And now, the final IR test as been complete. I watched Quantum of Solice last night with the wife. Black bars and all. Brought up several bright off color images post movie, blank inputs as well, nothing.


This TV impresses me more and more each day. The chewing my fingers off can stop now.










Now if Panny would just lower their prices on the Avatar 3D kit, we would be golden.


----------



## Electricide

LG 50PZ550


had SD nba playoffs on last night for about 20 minutes. Turned the tv off.

Turned it on this monring and I could still see the score box outline in the right hand corner. It went away after some full screen HD local news. But yikes, I really can't watch more than 10 minutes of sports without worrying about burn in? Plasmas are advertised as being great for sports!!


----------



## greenjp

Image retention and burn in are not the same thing. Search for xrox's posts about the actual mechanisms behind them.


Likewise, being able to see residual images on black or no-input screens is not IR or burn in. It is a different phenomenon that has been discussed at length.


Plasmas are great for sports. I'd say 1/3 of my 3+ year old set's time has been watching sports. Another 1/3 playing Xbox 360 games, and the rest on other tv shows and movies. Occasional image retention, no burn in.


jeff


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Electricide* /forum/post/20325718
> 
> 
> LG 50PZ550
> 
> 
> had SD nba playoffs on last night for about 20 minutes. Turned the tv off.
> 
> Turned it on this monring and I could still see the score box outline in the right hand corner. It went away after some full screen HD local news. But yikes, I really can't watch more than 10 minutes of sports without worrying about burn in? Plasmas are advertised as being great for sports!!



Well from all my research (my Panny is my first plasma), it seems some are more prone to it than others.


Also take into account that Panny's have Pixel Orbiter which slightly shift the picture every so often to prevent IR. Seems to work for me and you may want to check your TV's documentation to see if LG has a similar anti-IR mechanism.


Aside from that, there have been people that say some models will suffer IR more than others even of the same model type. That means that if you return yours and get a the identical model you have now, it may not suffer from any IR.


Again, I am not expert, but after speaking to experts throughout this forum and reading and researching, this is what I have gathered thus far.


And I have watched Sox game after Sox game and nothing. My son watches Sprout with their bright ass logo in the bottom right and no IR. It is certainly and odd phenomenon.


----------



## Electricide

yeah, I know it's not burn in. and only occassionally will a shadow image be visable underneath content.


I have "orbiter" on, I'm not sure the manual says what makes it different than the "auto" setting but I'm gonna check.


The sports themselves look real good though.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chemical360* /forum/post/20325266
> 
> 
> And now, the final IR test as been complete. I watched Quantum of Solice last night with the wife. Black bars and all. Brought up several bright off color images post movie, blank inputs as well, nothing.
> 
> 
> This TV impresses me more and more each day. The chewing my fingers off can stop now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if Panny would just lower their prices on the Avatar 3D kit, we would be golden.



You should be fine, no need to chew off your fingers, chew on some popcorn instead. 'Quantum of Solace' is probably one of the best flicks to take your plasma out for a test drive because of its endless actions and fast scenes, it amazes me every time I popped the disc in the DVD player (nope, no Blu-Ray yet for me).


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20327001
> 
> 
> You should be fine, no need to chew off your fingers, chew on some popcorn instead. 'Quantum of Solace' is probably one of the best flicks to take your plasma out for a test drive because of its endless actions and fast scenes, it amazes me every time I popped the disc in the DVD player (nope, no Blu-Ray yet for me).



Yeah, I actually watched it on Comcast On Demand which we all know is not the best HD source. But I have to say, it was beautiful


On my old LCD, whenever there were fast moving scenes, alot of action and bright images, the picture would get all pixelated. The ST30 handled this VERY well.


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Electricide* /forum/post/20325718
> 
> 
> LG 50PZ550
> 
> 
> had SD nba playoffs on last night for about 20 minutes. Turned the tv off.
> 
> Turned it on this monring and I could still see the score box outline in the right hand corner. It went away after some full screen HD local news. But yikes, I really can't watch more than 10 minutes of sports without worrying about burn in? Plasmas are advertised as being great for sports!!



LG TVs are the worst when it comes to IR. I can go on the netflix streaming menu and leave it less than a min. IR of the red top bar would be stuck on letter boxed movies till a regular programing is viewed. I just don't care anymore. If it ends up getting a burn in, i'll just get an LCD


----------



## 80sGuy

How old is your LG?


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goatse* /forum/post/20330998
> 
> 
> LG TVs are the worst when it comes to IR. I can go on the netflix streaming menu and leave it less than a min. *IR of the red top bar would be stuck on letter boxed movies till a regular programing is viewed.* I just don't care anymore. *If it ends up getting a burn in*, i'll just get an LCD



As long is goes away it is fine. IR exists on ALL plasmas. Some may retain it longer than others.

You say "If it gets a burn in....." This means that you still don't have burn in. I don't see why or what you are complaining for.


----------



## ajreynol

I'm surprised to see Burn-In is still an issue.


I picked up a Samsung PN64D8000FF @ Best Buy a couple weeks ago. It was the floor model because it was the only one left in stock. It's a brand new set, so it couldn't have been on the show floor for more than a week or 2.


I'll be damned if "JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE" wasn't burned into the screen. I tried for 2 weeks to get that removed, hoping it was just IR. Naw, it was burned in. Very disappointing to see that level of susceptibility in 2011. Perhaps it's just the nature of the technology, but it's nonetheless disconcerting.


I took the TV back and haven't decided if I'm going to replace it with the same unit or another plasma yet or if I'm going to err on the side of safety and go LCD. sigh.


----------



## Goatse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickSP* /forum/post/20332516
> 
> 
> As long is goes away it is fine. IR exists on ALL plasmas. Some may retain it longer than others.
> 
> You say "If it gets a burn in....." This means that you still don't have burn in. I don't see why or what you are complaining for.



because I still see IR. Kinda unacceptable for a new tv this day and age. Mines a pk950 with 1300hours.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^No, new TVs are sensitive to IR (and Burn-ins) because the phosphors are at their most sensitive stage. That's why you need to be careful of what you watch or how you watch for the first few hundred hours. It should be fine after that. But again, I read that LGs and Samsungs are most sensitive to Image-Retentions.


----------



## klescews

Hey all,


I picked up a panasonic VT25 after researching it...well, here mostly. I read all the threads I could stand on burn in prevention. I was VERY careful to limit my gaming time (where there were static HUDs) to an hour or so during the first 100 hours, and had 0 "black bars" on the screen from TVs or movies for the first 100 hours. I've had the TV now for 4 months (purchased in Dec 2010) and I'm well passed the 100 hour mark, so I decided to play an extended play of Dragon Age.


The next day, I noticed a slightly darker "ring" where the minimap was in the upper right of my screen. The weird thing is that I cant see it at all when the screen is black or when there are a "mix" of colors there. However, when there is 1 uniform color (or a slight gradient), I can see it plain as day.


Does anyone have any advice? Is there something I can do to get rid of it? Will it go away on its own or am I screwed?


Thanks everyone for your help!


*edit* I just noticed that the image doesn't really do the problem justice. It is much easier to see in person... Also, the image has been there now for several days, maybe a week. I haven't played dragon age since I noticed it for fear of it getting worse.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *klescews* /forum/post/20339990
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> 
> I picked up a panasonic VT25 after researching it...well, here mostly. I read all the threads I could stand on burn in prevention. I was VERY careful to limit my gaming time (where there were static HUDs) to an hour or so during the first 100 hours, and had 0 "black bars" on the screen from TVs or movies for the first 100 hours. I've had the TV now for 4 months (purchased in Dec 2010) and I'm well passed the 100 hour mark, so I decided to play an extended play of Dragon Age.
> 
> 
> The next day, I noticed a slightly darker "ring" where the minimap was in the upper right of my screen. The weird thing is that I cant see it at all when the screen is black or when there are a "mix" of colors there. However, when there is 1 uniform color (or a slight gradient), I can see it plain as day.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any advice? Is there something I can do to get rid of it? Will it go away on its own or am I screwed?
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help!
> 
> 
> *edit* I just noticed that the image doesn't really do the problem justice. It is much easier to see in person... Also, the image has been there now for several days, maybe a week. I haven't played dragon age since I noticed it for fear of it getting worse.



Watch TV in full screen mode for a few hours and it will go away.


----------



## klescews

Thanks for the reply! I've been playing games for the last week or so but I haven't seen it go away. I'll keep an eye on it.


Thanks again for your reply!


----------



## scarpi

I'm thinking of getting the panasonic 65 GT 30 in a couple of months. It will be my first plasma tv. I have to admit I haven't read this thread thorougly, but using common sense, I would think that a good way to break in a new plasma is just to go into the menu and set the tv so that the picture is not too bright or vivid and maybe even a little dim, and just watch full screen tv and full screen DVDs for the first hundred hours. Then after break in, go into the menu and set the tv picture to your liking, set it to use the stretch mode for 4:3 programs, and set the tv to always use the pixel orbitor (if that's what its called) constantly. Yes or no ?? Thanks.


----------



## Jules343

I read in another thread that having the screen display white was a good method to break-in a plasma. It would be easy as it is built in to my TV

Quote:

Usually it takes at least about 100-150 hours of use before you get the best picture quality from a plasma display, nevermind the brand. For that reason, it is always good to arrange a serious calibration (and/or test) when the display has 200 hours or more.


The best way I suggest you for doing the initial break-in, for those who are interested in that, is to use a 100 IRE pattern (full white), and run it on the display for about 2 hours for session. Then turn off the TV and leaving it off for 1 hour or more, so that the electronics and the panel get perfectly cool, and then repeat the session, and so on. Contrast should be set around 70%, and power saving function to low (or to off if the "low" option is not available). You can also use the internal timer from the OSD to turn off the TV (I don't know how it works on these new models). About 100 hours of break-in by using that system, and you will be OK


The interesting thing on the LGs plasma, on the previous 2008 and 2009 series, and I guess it is the same for these new models, is that you have that 100 IRE (full white) pattern available from the OSD. On the E.U. 2008 models its name was "refreshPDP". They offer it to clean the display in case of bad IR, but it is also perfect for the break-in


BTW, there should be also the "Orbiter" (I don't know the exact name on these new U.S. models) function available from the same OSD setup (if you don't find it on that setup, search for it in the PDF manual). It helps to reduce image retention (IR), and it is always a very good thing to use it during gaming.


----------



## franky932

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ajreynol* 
I'm surprised to see Burn-In is still an issue.


I picked up a Samsung PN64D8000FF @ Best Buy a couple weeks ago. It was the floor model because it was the only one left in stock. It's a brand new set, so it couldn't have been on the show floor for more than a week or 2.


I'll be damned if "JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE" wasn't burned into the screen. I tried for 2 weeks to get that removed, hoping it was just IR. Naw, it was burned in. Very disappointing to see that level of susceptibility in 2011. Perhaps it's just the nature of the technology, but it's nonetheless disconcerting.


I took the TV back and haven't decided if I'm going to replace it with the same unit or another plasma yet or if I'm going to err on the side of safety and go LCD. sigh.
*

GO LCD OR DEL (LED):* you wont have paranoia , you will do what you want , without be not sure if it will get burn in for 2 weeks or always.


plus break in ,ansd so on, never end.

*pic is ok







lasma*


the tread start in *2008* and it 's running in *2011.*


I almost buy a plasma....and did see this tread....change to LCD.


some lcd have black like plasma.


you'r lucky :you can return!!!!!!!!!!


anyhow put it back in the box go to the store [email protected]#$%?&*(


in my town no BB or Future...


if i had purchase a plasma i would be stuck with.


sellers from 3-4 stores told me that: if you have


burn in , whe dont change it for another HDTV.

*i do respect those that have no problem and like their plasma*


----------



## EvanVanVan

I just want to double check, is it safe to run the break-in DVD for a few hours and stop it before it completes a full 24 hour cycle? I ask because a user mentioned somewhere the disk getting stuck on a green screen for several hours an unevenly aging the green phospers over the blue and red ones...So I'm not worried about my disk getting stuck, but is a full 24 hour cycle needed to make sure all the phospers are aged at the same rate they were intended to by the disk?


I did read the first ~10 pages of the thread and did a search of the thread, but no I haven't read all 99 pages


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EvanVanVan* /forum/post/20350388
> 
> 
> I just want to double check, is it safe to run the break-in DVD for a few hours and stop it before it completes a full 24 hour cycle? I ask because a user mentioned somewhere the disk getting stuck on a green screen for several hours an unevenly aging the green phospers over the blue and red ones...So I'm not worried about my disk getting stuck, but is a full 24 hour cycle needed to make sure all the phospers are aged at the same rate they were intended to by the disk?
> 
> 
> I did read the first ~10 pages of the thread and did a search of the thread, but no I haven't read all 99 pages


_Hi,


In my opinion all new plasma's are ready to use,So i would not recommend you break in slides,and never leave any electronic gadgets unattended ! So if you have a BD player and few BD movies try to play them when you are around it.I have a panasonic plasma 50 inches V series asian edition.I started using break in slides as they have all suggested.And at the end of day One,i could see mild patches of dim red & greenish yellow here & there.And from the following day i stopped using slides and started watching movies.Now those stains have all disappeared.So it would be safe to watch Hi def movies in zoom 1 mode with contrast around 50,brightness & colour to your preference.And colour temperature at normal or cool.


And also don't push your display panel to work 24x7.Let the panel age gently & gradually by regular use.


Let us all keep one thing in mind is that even if your put in 100 to 200 hrs of break in slides,the plasma panel is still susceptible to IR & burn-in from static images.So there is no point in wasting your time & electricity to age the panel.And also reaching half life of the panel much sooner.In the name of aging one should not age the life of the panel by keeping the unit on for a week or so.


So what iam suggesting here is use the tv with Hi def content that which fills the screen fully(no black bars) this is sufficient.You can even watch HD DTH broadcast,provided it does not have shares or news stickers running on it.And also can watch channels where they keep constantly giving breaks for adds,during which there must be no channel logos...

Since i have started watching channels in this way and i have no I.R.


Love,

kris._


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20347011
> 
> *
> 
> GO LCD OR DEL (LED):* you wont have paranoia , you will do what you want , without be not sure if it will get burn in for 2 weeks or always.
> 
> 
> plus break in ,ansd so on, never end.
> 
> *pic is ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lasma*
> 
> 
> the tread start in *2008* and it 's running in *2011.*
> 
> 
> I almost buy a plasma....and did see this tread....change to LCD.
> 
> 
> some lcd have black like plasma.
> 
> 
> you'r lucky :you can return!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> anyhow put it back in the box go to the store [email protected]#$%?&*(
> 
> 
> in my town no BB or Future...
> 
> 
> if i had purchase a plasma i would be stuck with.
> 
> 
> sellers from 3-4 stores told me that: if you have
> 
> 
> burn in , whe dont change it for another HDTV.
> 
> *i do respect those that have no problem and like their plasma*



Bright text constantly on-screen for ~12 hours per day for 2 weeks would probably cause problems for any display type, especially when in "torch mode".


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mastperf* /forum/post/20351989
> 
> 
> Bright text constantly on-screen for ~12 hours per day for 2 weeks would probably cause problems for any display type, especially when in "torch mode".



who will do that in the first thing? a psycho lollllllll


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20352366
> 
> 
> who will do that in the first thing? a psycho lollllllll



You'd be surprised how many people will unknowingly do that sort of thing. My neighbors in their 60s bought a Samsung and have it in torch mode from day 1. Thankfully they have a LCD.


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *franky932* /forum/post/20352366
> 
> 
> who will do that in the first thing? a psycho lollllllll



Pretty much. The post he replied to was from someone who bought a store display (on for 12+ hours a day). Even then, it could still be some nasty image retention rather than burn-in.


----------



## franky932




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mastperf* /forum/post/20352469
> 
> 
> Pretty much. The post he replied to was from someone who bought a store display (on for 12+ hours a day). Even then, it could still be some nasty image retention rather than burn-in.



ok but in store there are plug on bluerays


----------



## EvanVanVan

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
_Hi,


In my opinion all new plasma's are ready to use,So i would not recommend you break in slides,and never leave any electronic gadgets unattended ! So if you have a BD player and few BD movies try to play them when you are around it.I have a panasonic plasma 50 inches V series asian edition.I started using break in slides as they have all suggested.And at the end of day One,i could see mild patches of dim red & greenish yellow here & there.And from the following day i stopped using slides and started watching movies.Now those stains have all disappeared.So it would be safe to watch Hi def movies in zoom 1 mode with contrast around 50,brightness & colour to your preference.And colour temperature at normal or cool.


And also don't push your display panel to work 24x7.Let the panel age gently & gradually by regular use.


Let us all keep one thing in mind is that even if your put in 100 to 200 hrs of break in slides,the plasma panel is still susceptible to IR & burn-in from static images.So there is no point in wasting your time & electricity to age the panel.And also reaching half life of the panel much sooner.In the name of aging one should not age the life of the panel by keeping the unit on for a week or so.


So what iam suggesting here is use the tv with Hi def content that which fills the screen fully(no black bars) this is sufficient.You can even watch HD DTH broadcast,provided it does not have shares or news stickers running on it.And also can watch channels where they keep constantly giving breaks for adds,during which there must be no channel logos...

Since i have started watching channels in this way and i have no I.R.


Love,

kris._
aright that makes sense thanks...


----------



## zubidoo

Hi guys!


I just recently bought a "New Other" (as per eBay) Pro-151fd from a company in New York, and I had some questions about the break-in process.


1. What happens if I don't break-in my TV? Is it even worth ISF calibrating when it hasn't been properly broken-in (let's say I reach 200 hours, but it wasn't by constantly playing that calibration DVD)?

2. I don't know how many hours my out of the box TV has on it, so what if it comes with over 100 hours of usage time? Is it even possible to break-in the TV if it's already been used that much? More importantly, is the ISF calibration worth it at that point?


Thanks so much!

Cole


----------



## tjacks84

The general rule of thumb is 200 hours, and as long as you vary the content on the display you're fine. Just don't do pillar boxes or letter boxes without plenty of full screen. Some calibrators will go with 100 hours or more use, but most would say wait until 200 hours so the phosphors have stabilized. While some might swear by the slides, I think most would agree as long as the TV has been used to around 200 hours, by then a calibration will be far more likely to "stick". If you're not going to get a calibration, then I'd not worry about it. Just enjoy it. The topic can start a sh*tstorm, but the break in period is really only advisable for the purpose of a calibration, because the PQ settings at hour 1 might not be the absolute optimum settings at hour 180, and you want optimum settings if you're going to pay someone for it; that's why you break it in first. Whether or not break in matters outside of calibration seems to be a point of contention here from what I've read. I'm still a rookie at doing my own calibrations, but that's what I've gathered from reading here.


----------



## r2crd

Hi, I bought a LG 50PK750 for the kids 6 months ago. 2 weeks ago I discovered that the Cartoon Network Logo was imprinted on the screen (My 6 year old is a Ben10 fan).

I'm attaching some photos of the problem.

Is not very visible on normal viewing and it does seem that is slowly fading away, but very slowly.

I played a few hours of break in slides with no luck. I also used the plasma IR removing utilities (white wash /color wash) a few times with no apparent results.

I didn't want to go the LCD route at the time because I hate the artificial imaging and motion blur and some time I like to watch TV with them.

Cartoon Network viewing time is still permitted but with the cinema zooming function enable on level 14 which is a lot and a lot of image information is being lost to the point of just watching faces.

I'm leaning towards just ignore this a give the kid a chance to watch his favorite show on normal settings, without zooming or anything; just the pixel orbiter activated. At the end the set was bought for them and they couldn't care less for this.


What do you guys think?


Thanks in advance for your comments,


__
https://flic.kr/p/5661322397
​ 
__
https://flic.kr/p/5661891526
​


----------



## hotskins

My son does the same exact thing. He watches cartoon network for hours and leaves the tv on. Luckily the IR goes away on my samsung. I think you should just let the kid enjoy the tv. The IR should fade, I think it just takes longer on LGs.


----------



## chemical360




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2crd* /forum/post/20363878
> 
> 
> Hi, I bought a LG 50PK750 for the kids 6 months ago. 2 weeks ago I discovered that the Cartoon Network Logo was imprinted on the screen (My 6 year old is a Ben10 fan).
> 
> I'm attaching some photos of the problem.
> 
> Is not very visible on normal viewing and it does seem that is slowly fading away, but very slowly.
> 
> I played a few hours of break in slides with no luck. I also used the plasma IR removing utilities (white wash /color wash) a few times with no apparent results.
> 
> I didn't want to go the LCD route at the time because I hate the artificial imaging and motion blur and some time I like to watch TV with them.
> 
> Cartoon Network viewing time is still permitted but with the cinema zooming function enable on level 14 which is a lot and a lot of image information is being lost to the point of just watching faces.
> 
> I'm leaning towards just ignore this a give the kid a chance to watch his favorite show on normal settings, without zooming or anything; just the pixel orbiter activated. At the end the set was bought for them and they couldn't care less for this.
> 
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your comments,
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/5661322397
> ​
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/5661891526
> ​



It is IR. It does not appear to be burn in and since it is fading, that indicate it is IR. I am in the same boat. My son watches sprout and they have a static logo but I haven't had this happen to me, yet. I am starting to believe that some brands are more prone to IR than others, which concerns me a great deal.


I would say let it go, try watching something other than cartoon network, if he/she will. Watch DVD's or something. Then, I believe it will fade out entirely after some time.


----------



## Electricide

maybe with a mild push from consumers, networks will start rotating their translucnte logos to different corners of the screen after every commercial break.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Electricide* /forum/post/20365240
> 
> 
> maybe with a mild push from consumers, networks will start rotating their translucnte logos to different corners of the screen after every commercial break.


_Yes,

Even i would like that to happen sooner than later !
_


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2crd* /forum/post/20363878
> 
> 
> Hi, I bought a LG 50PK750 for the kids 6 months ago. 2 weeks ago I discovered that the Cartoon Network Logo was imprinted on the screen (My 6 year old is a Ben10 fan).....
> 
> 
> ....What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your comments,
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/5661322397
> ​
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/5661891526
> ​



ZOOM it out and lowered the Brightness/Contrast if your kid insists on watching the network. It's gonna take a while for it to go away if you're constantly playing the same channel. The best remedy would be to watch a lot of NatGEO HD or Discover HD in normal Brightness/Contrast and let it phase out within time. Again, it will take weeks or even months before you'll see any improvement.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Electricide* /forum/post/20365240
> 
> 
> maybe with a mild push from consumers, networks will start rotating their translucnte logos to different corners of the screen after every commercial break.



Well, me and a few other guys from another thread had took the initiative and contacted ESPN and this is the outcome:

_"Dear XXXX,


Thank you for contacting us.


"Burn In" has been a known phenomenon that can occur with plasma screen technology. If you have a complaint, it should be pursued with the manufacturer or retailer from whom you purchased the TV.


Sincerely,


Brandon

ESPN Viewer Response"


--------------- Original Message ---------------


"I am writing to kindly request that you have your ESPN network logo which is currently being displayed on the bottom right corner of the screen to be changed from 'Bright White' to a more friendlier or Transparent-type logo, or perhaps have it appear on/off intermittently. Reason being is I owned a Plasma TV which are prone to screen Burn-Ins and it is preventing me to view any ESPN programs.


Thank you for your concern,

From long time ESPN program subscriber".


ref:00D480H6.5004EpMoA:ref_


----------



## r2crd

Thanks everybody for your feedback.

Yesterday I went to a nearby electronics store just to add into the equation the possibility to exchange my set for a LCD set. To be honest I went there with an open mindset and talking to myself as I was arriving to the store: “I do like LCD's, I do like LCD's, they're the wisest choice: no burn, greener, slimmer, cooler, etc.)

Well … It didn't work out. I can get over the unrealistic colors and torching scenes, but as long as the characters don't move! How can one stand that artificial trail of pixels that every movement traces on the screen?

Given the ratio of LCD's vs. Plasmas being on display at that store I came to the conclusion that every human being are marketing sponges that can get used to everything except for no eating or not going to the bathroom.

As for my particular situation I am banning the Cartoon Network Channel until that on-air logo or my IR disappears, whatever it comes first. And for my kid's good fortune (and Cartoon Network as well) I started to buy the BEN10 DVD collection. I can only hope those are burning logo free.


Thanks again,


----------



## 80sGuy

^^If you have Cable, you can go to Video-On-Demand in the 'kids/family' section and select the cartoons of your choice, many do not show the logo if you zoom it to full screen.


----------



## janos666

What are the recommanded settings for the break-in period if I plan to use "break-in slides" (exclusively and continuously for ~100 hours after the initial setup) on a Samsung D series plasma (51D550)?


----------



## EvanVanVan

Are logos that are pretty transparent a problem? Behind the tbs logo, you can basically see all of the colors/movement behind it


----------



## Peter Johnson

Why do people keep asking the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Well you get the picture.


----------



## EvanVanVan

it's easier then searching?


edit: and its just another post in a thread dedicated to the information (with 100+ pages already)...I'll rephrase, if you don't want to be bothered answering thats fine, but there's no reason to be a **** about it...


----------



## janos666

I just fabricated this slide-show pack for myself.


As much as I understand I need to exercise the cells (mostly the phosphor material) but the R,G,B sub-pixels are fully independent across the whole panel, and gray shades use all the three (R,G,B) sub-pixels equally, so using additional primary, secondary or mixed colors would be only a waste of time.


The commonly used break-in slides doesn't use any low luminance images, but I decided to add those too (the exclusion of the single-channel shades improved the overall efficiency anyway but I considered that single-channel images let the other two channels resting). Is it a bad idea? (I know that the dithering noise is very noticeable on dark patches and a static dithering noise pattern would age the pixels unevenly but the dithering is always there, it's only our eye and cognitive system + the random coincidences that makes us notice it more or less depending on the content...)


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20373996
> 
> 
> Why do people keep asking the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Well you get the picture.



Grow up..


----------



## felix19




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20373029
> 
> 
> What are the recommanded settings for the break-in period if I plan to use "break-in slides" (exclusively and continuously for ~100 hours after the initial setup) on a Samsung D series plasma (51D550)?



There are no recommended settings because it doesn't make sense to use break-in slides. I have never seen a statement by a single company recommending the use of them or even acknowledging their existence. Just watch exclusively 16/9 in the first 100 hours and you will be fine. There is no way that there will be noticeable uneven aging if you do that. If you disagree, prove it or shut it.


----------



## bigmac31391

There is no such thing as Plasma Burn-in! Watch, Play, Compute the way you want to. JJ


----------



## kris achar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *felix19* 
There are no recommended settings because it doesn't make sense to use break-in slides. I have never seen a statement by a single company recommending the use of them or even acknowledging their existence. Just watch exclusively 16/9 in the first 100 hours and you will be fine. There is no way that there will be noticeable uneven aging if you do that. If you disagree, prove it .
_Yes,

I fully agree with you...
_


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EvanVanVan* 
Are logos that are pretty transparent a problem? Behind the tbs logo, you can basically see all of the colors/movement behind it
Transparent logos are designed to reduced the effects of IR, so in essence they pretty much harmless.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* 
There is no such thing as Plasma Burn-in! Watch, Play, Compute the way you want to. JJ
Bhwaaaaaahahahahaah!


----------



## janos666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *felix19* /forum/post/20377922
> 
> 
> Just watch exclusively 16/9 in the first 100 hours and you will be fine. There is no way that there will be noticeable uneven aging if you do that. If you disagree, prove it or shut it.



I have 3 reasons why I would run the break-in slides:


Fisrt: I will use this TV as a PC monitor. I want to watch Blu-Ray movies (with black bars), play games (with HUDs), etc from the very first moment after I disconnect my LCD and connect the PDP.

(Well, it will be a later decision if I should keep an LCD too. -> If I will have serious [almost burn-in like] IR, I will stop the "abuse" and either sell the PDP before it's too late or re-arrange my room for two displays...)


Second: I don't want to spend ~100 hours with an uncalibrated display. But as much as I understand, I shouldn't try to calibrate it before 100-200 hours runtime. (On reason that I have to display test patterns for prolonged periods which can cause IR even on older panels and the second that the colorimetric characteristics of the display will significantly fluctuate during this period.)


Third: It is a "happy accident" that my display will arrive on Monday and I will leave the house on Monday night and come back on Thursday night, so the TV can run the slides while I am out. (The house won't be empty, so somebody will be able to take a look at it from time to time.)




Another question:

Does a full-screen, static, homogeneously 100% white image cause burn-in?

I am asking because I read this post and thought: Why not do the break-in like this (this would be much faster)?


----------



## janos666

Is it OK to do something like this on a PDP? (Not exclusively, of course, but sometimes between BD watching and gaming sessions...)

(Don't laugh... I only messed around with my currently opened windows to simulate what I do sometimes. I'm not that idiot like this video shows.







)


----------



## MASKOAA

Anotehr way to avoid burn in is to switch from 1:1 pixel mapping to 5 percent overscan after so many uses, its what I do b/c it moves logos more then the orbiter would.


----------



## EvanVanVan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20380111
> 
> 
> Is it OK to do something like this on a PDP? (Not exclusively, of course, but sometimes between BD watching and gaming sessions...)
> 
> (Don't laugh... I only messed around with my currently opened windows to simulate what I do sometimes. I'm not that idiot like this video shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )




You kind of changed your tone there from your first post lol...


I used my 42" plasma as my computer monitor for a little over a year, doing the regular activity including homework and such like in your video...Just make sure to use a screen saver with a short idle time I think I used 5 minutes, but it might have been 1 minute...I did see some slight IR once in a while (mainly after turning the TV off), but again I also didn't use it exclusively and I would watch enough TV/leave the screen saver on long enough for it to disappear...


Also I didn't use it as my monitor right away though...this was 4-5 years ago already, I didn't research IR/Burn-in at the time and don't think I knew about the 100 hour break-in period...But I must have watched at least 100+ hours of normal TV on it before my roommate in college got kicked out and I decided to make it my computer monitor...So I'm pretty sure it was properly broke in before I decided to keep the static computer images on it...


I don't know much about the subject of IR/Burn-in but in this thread it's been brought up that breaking it in 24/7 for 4-5 days straight is not the best way to do it...so I would be careful with that, its best to give the TV some rest between break-in sessions...


----------



## janos666

Yah, sometimes I read posts like yours ("use it with some precaution and there will be no problem"), but other times I run into threads like "the OSD of my BD player burned-in to my VT25".

So, I think it will be fine but sometimes I get confused.







Time will tell, I think.









(I usually run all my hardwares with the "it runs until it lasts" principles and I am usually lucky with them.)


----------



## janos666

Well, I think I found some tiny little (possible) bugs in the "official" break-in DVD / slide-show-pack.


----------

Let me show you the first like this...

The RGB stands for a Red, Green and Blue sub-pixel triple ("a pixel"). A thin R means that it's OFF and a bold *R* means it's ON. (The actual content has some steps between OFF and ON, so I mean OFF = 0%, ON = anything else but not zero.)


Let's see a part of the "infinite" loop:


||| *RGB RGB RGB RGB RGB* *R*GB *R*GB *R*GB *R*GB *R*GB R*G*B R*G*B R*G*B R*G*B R*G*B RG*B* RG*B* RG*B* RG*B* RG*B* ||| *RGB RGB RGB RGB RGB*


Every sub-pixels are ON for 10 slides but the longest continuous ON time of the Red and Blue sub-pixels is 10 slides and the longest continuous ON time of the Green sub-pixels is only 5 slides.


-----


Now let's talk about the other one: Single channel (fully saturated Red, Green, Blue) slides.


Well, you may think an input with R=100, B=0, G=0 numbers will result in an *R*GB state (with completely OFF Blue and Green). But no... this isn't that simple anymore.

Many LCD and plasma manufacturers use wide color gamut phosphors (of RGB LEDs) to make "Joe" to say "WOOOWWW I WANT THAT" on the shop.










And a benevolent manufacturer will offer the standard (I mean standardized, like the ITU BT.709) gamut with software based color space emulation. (This is a real problem alone but I don't wish to discuss the observer mesmerism [which makes this emulation noticeably imperfect] and the problems with the "of-the-shelf" colorimeters. That's another topic...)


So, if you run these slides with a picture mode which applies gamut emulation, then an R=100, G=0, B=0 input can actually be converted to (let's say as a non-real example) R=85, G=3, B=5. (And the reasonable picture modes often apply gamut emulation because the native gamut looks weird, so it's possible that the user will use this kind of picture mode which looks right...)

-----------



I don't say that these are real problem in practice (yah, many people used these slides in the last... decade?), but this is the AV Science forum, so please don't hurt me if I am too theoretical and analytical.











My suggestion is to use gray shades only. (It's safer and could be more effective.)


As of the efficiency... I am not sure if the original author of the colored slides took it into consideration (or if it was a "happy accident" because it's a great thing or a simple accident which only makes the whole process less efficient...) that a single-channel slide will let the other two sub-pixels rest.

But I also considered that we want to avoid a possible overheating (I think we actually want to simulate some "efficient but not too unrealistically hard" case. I do fear about the dilatation when we have gas and glass...), so I put some 0% black slides to my package.


(And my earlier package used randomized gray slides but I reconsidered that. I think it's better to make it smoothly -> smoother dilatation and voltage increase....)


Here is my current recommendation: breakin_v2 

(I didn't make any approximated calculations about it [too many unknown variables] but I think it is not only safer but a bit more efficient. -> requires less time)


-----


Of course, it can't help with the fluctuating white balance across the grayscale (these are perfect grays but the device colors will randomly fluctuate). So may be it is not a bad idea to calibrate the TV first (not perfectly but "more or less" very fast...) if you have something like "10 point gray balance".



What do you think?


----------



## MASKOAA

I think the reason why theres more red slide then blue and green is b/c by plasmas very nature it produces blue and green very easily and deeply more so then red, I could be wrong about that though so someone correct me.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20381726
> 
> 
> Well, I think I found some tiny little (possible) bugs in the "official" break-in DVD / slide-show-pack.
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> Let me show you the first like this...
> 
> The RGB stands for a Red, Green and Blue sub-pixel triple ("a pixel"). A thin R means that it's OFF and a bold *R* means it's ON. (The actual content has some steps between OFF and ON, so I mean OFF = 0%, ON = anything else but not zero.)
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> 
> Of course, it can't help with the fluctuating white balance across the grayscale (these are perfect grays but the device colors will randomly fluctuate). So may be it is not a bad idea to calibrate the TV first (not perfectly but "more or less" very fast...) if you have something like "10 point gray balance".
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


_I understand what you have explained,If you have read some of my posts i have mentioned that newer plasma's(NeoPDP's) manufactured from year 2010 on wards are very much ready to use type.And one need not waste much time & elec..in break-in procedures.And in my case the panel started showing signs of faint red & yellow tints here & there on day one of the slide show.So i stopped this immediately and iam now atching more of BD movies in zoom1 mode so that the upper & lower black bars are not visible.And i have noticed that IR happens only at cold start up.i.e you must switch on the tv allow it to warm up for 30 to 45 minutes and then one can start calibrating their hdmi receivers,BD player settings or even use it as a PC monitor to view webcast,etc...

The same applies to watching tv broadcast with logos,when the panel is warmed up sufficiently you can watch channels with logos for 2 to 3 hours on a stretch.In case if it has lots of adds with logos in between,then for a whole day one can view that channel without getting any I.R or burn-in.

And iam doing exacting what i have told and the results are stunning.


Love,

kris._


----------



## janos666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20382466
> 
> 
> And in my case the panel started showing signs of faint red & yellow tints here & there on day one of the slide show.



Hmm. I started my slide-show and noticed that cool grays became pinkish (~15 minutes). I displayed a BD movie with zoom (~10 minutes) and restarted the slide-show. The grays were cool grays again for some minutes but became pink again after ~10 minutes.


Is it normal or should I lower the contrast/brightness? (I am using the factory default Standard mode.)


----------



## BillP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20383266
> 
> 
> Hmm. I started my slide-show and noticed that cool grays became pinkish (~15 minutes). I displayed a BD movie with zoom (~10 minutes) and restarted the slide-show. The grays were cool grays again for some minutes but became pink again after ~10 minutes.
> 
> 
> Is it normal or should I lower the contrast/brightness? (I am using the factory default Standard mode.)



If you use the slides, you are supposed to use specific settings, NOT the factory default. See link.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...15&postcount=1


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20383266
> 
> 
> Hmm. I started my slide-show and noticed that cool grays became pinkish (~15 minutes). I displayed a BD movie with zoom (~10 minutes) and restarted the slide-show. The grays were cool grays again for some minutes but became pink again after ~10 minutes.
> 
> 
> Is it normal or should I lower the contrast/brightness? (I am using the factory default Standard mode.)


_Hi,


My panny is 'V' series with Neo PDP panel,i.e the panel is very sensitive and very responsive..compared to older plasma tv's.So i would suggest that you use your tv to view Action content like movies & sports.

Gradual aging of the panel by regular use is much better than forced aging as accomplished through color slide show!.

Once you damage your panel by wrong settings while doing break in slides no one is going to take the responsibility and it might also be difficult for you to return it back.Since my panny's operating manual speaks clearly that I.R and burn-in is not covered by warranty and advises us not to use static images for long duration.

And all the slide show procedures discussed here are more apt for old plasma panels only...

So don't waste time in aging the plasma panel.Since whatever would happen will happen,So handle it with care always.If you want to have a clean,clear, stainfree & burn free panel.


Love,

kris._


----------



## Grey_Fox719

Hey everyone, I have been haunting this forum for alittle while. And you all seem to know your stuff, so I PRAY you can help me. Here is my issue. I recently got myself a Panasonic plasma G25. I am stationed in Okinawa Japan so my choices are VERY limited on TV's. When I saw her in the BX I HAD to have her. they had six left, accidentally sold the one I had purchased, and with no more in stock or coming, I took the floor model. PICTURE, AMAZING. I now had the best looking TV in the barracks. With folks streaming to my room on weekends Blu-Rays in hand. This is my first plasma TV, I had read about break in and assumed that since she was a floor model, then perhaps had reached the 100 or so hours, so then I went online looking for better picture setting, and the ones I had found increased the contrast, sharpness, brightness. Begin issues. Movies are amazing, but, I am a avid gamer (PS3) and at first had no issues (except for what appeared to be "noise" kinda grainy areas in the picture) but now after playing dead rising 2 for two hours, the "Total zombies killed" counter from the bottom right, stayed on screen clear as day. Begin panic. I ramped up the contrast and brightness and ran the scrolling bar, after 5-7 times now it slowly fading. BUT now, I seem to be having pretty bad image retention/burn in on almost everygame I play. I found the colored slides and I am using them as I type this, and intend to let them run while I am at work. BUT, in the slides I can see the outlines and fairly clear details of Test drive unlimited 2 that I played for 3 hours last night. Am I doomed? Haave I ruined the best TV I ever owned? Pleease help a total RETARD when it comes to Plasma TV's.


----------



## NickSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grey_Fox719* /forum/post/20390287
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, I have been haunting this forum for alittle while. And you all seem to know your stuff, so I PRAY you can help me. Here is my issue. I recently got myself a Panasonic plasma G25. I am stationed in Okinawa Japan so my choices are VERY limited on TV's. When I saw her in the BX I HAD to have her. they had six left, accidentally sold the one I had purchased, and with no more in stock or coming, I took the floor model. PICTURE, AMAZING. I now had the best looking TV in the barracks. With folks streaming to my room on weekends Blu-Rays in hand. This is my first plasma TV, I had read about break in and assumed that since she was a floor model, then perhaps had reached the 100 or so hours, so then I went online looking for better picture setting, and the ones I had found increased the contrast, sharpness, brightness. Begin issues. Movies are amazing, but, I am a avid gamer (PS3) and at first had no issues (except for what appeared to be "noise" kinda grainy areas in the picture) but now after playing dead rising 2 for two hours, the "Total zombies killed" counter from the bottom right, stayed on screen clear as day. Begin panic. I ramped up the contrast and brightness and ran the scrolling bar, after 5-7 times now it slowly fading. BUT now, I seem to be having pretty bad image retention/burn in on almost everygame I play. I found the colored slides and I am using them as I type this, and intend to let them run while I am at work. BUT, in the slides I can see the outlines and fairly clear details of Test drive unlimited 2 that I played for 3 hours last night. Am I doomed? Haave I ruined the best TV I ever owned? Pleease help a total RETARD when it comes to Plasma TV's.




Relax bro. Take a deep breath and smoke a cigarette or something







. What you are seeing is IR and not Burn In (BI). First of all, forget the slides. Set your contrast at around 55-60. Brightness around 35-40 and Sharpness lower than 35.

After you are done gaming, watch some HD video on full screen without any logos or whatever. If you get SD then ZOOM the image so it fills up the screen. Let this play for about an hour or so and you will have zero IR or BI.

Lastly, set your orbiter to every 2 minutes or so and enjoy your Plasma.

BTW, make sure you charge a $5 admission for the entertainment. LOL!


----------



## EvanVanVan

Would it help prevent burn-in/IR by warming(heating) up the TV/phosphors first? Rather then watching static images after a cold-start?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EvanVanVan* /forum/post/20404632
> 
> 
> Would it help prevent burn-in/IR by warming(heating) up the TV/phosphors first? Rather then watching static images after a cold-start ?


_Yes,


Warm up the tv by watching BD content fullscreen for 30 to 45 minutes then shift to watching movies,news,sports with logos for 3 hours at a stretch or view photos and can even work on pc with page refreshing every 5 minutes...

Also can caliberate your HDMI Receivers,Set top box or BD player once its warmed up well.

And what i have said above is from my experience with my panny plasma tv 'V'series yr-2010 model.

And i will not recommend to anyone to use color slides to break-in for plasmas purchased from the year 2010 onwards.i.e NEO-PDP panels are very sensitive & responsive so it tends to leave color stains here and there in grey scale.

So use your plasma wisely and get the maximum pleasure of fine picture quality.And by the way plasma's are not for rough use.Its on par with RR(Rolls Royce cars).while the LCD'S & LED'S are like toyotas & Hondas.indeed they do their job but the ride quality is much to be desired.










Love,

kris._


----------



## EvanVanVan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/20407579
> 
> _Yes,
> 
> 
> Warm up the tv by watching BD content fullscreen for 30 to 45 minutes then shift to watching movies,news,sports with logos for 3 hours at a stretch or view photos and can even work on pc with page refreshing every 5 minutes...
> 
> Also can caliberate your HDMI Receivers,Set top box or BD player once its warmed up well.
> 
> And what i have said above is from my experience with my panny plasma tv 'V'series yr-2010 model.
> 
> And i will not recommend to anyone to use color slides to break-in for plasmas purchased from the year 2010 onwards.i.e NEO-PDP panels are very sensitive & responsive so it tends to leave color stains here and there in grey scale.
> 
> So use your plasma wisely and get the maximum pleasure of fine picture quality.And by the way plasma's are not for rough use.Its on par with RR(Rolls Royce cars).while the LCD'S & LED'S are like toyotas & Hondas.indeed they do their job but the ride quality is much to be desired.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris._



Aright yeah thanks I was just asking cause I've been putting off playing Xbox 360 for the past couple weeks and had a feeling warming up the TV might be a good idea...I had downloaded the slides with the intention of using them a couple weeks ago. But I've been following (I think) your recommendation of just normal TV habits with full screen content and letting the TV rest...Probably close to 150 hours now, just saw my first slight IR with an Encore logo yesterday afternoon, but as soon as I noticed it I zoomed in and it disappeared after about 10 minutes...Not bad at all...


----------



## janos666

According to my short-time experience, IR is actually worse with warmed up panel.


But I will do homework for 1-2 hours (MathCAD, AutoCAD, PDF viewer, so "semi-static" content) and check if ~20 minutes of game-play (I started Portal 2 yesterday - it's a good game and doesn't have a HUD...) is able to erase the IR.


If everything is OK, then I will remove the plastic tapes from the bezel and place the box on the loft. If not, well..., I will think about the possibility to revert to my old H-IPS or sell the H-IPS and get a TN+Film for these tasks...


----------



## joedaddyecw

I'll be receiving my unit this wednesday and i've been doing tons of research on breaking in sets and i found this video on youtube which doesn't seem like a bad idea. i was wondering what people here though about it and if i should go this route.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlzN3...eature=related


----------



## AndrewLeprich

Hey, guys, I'm a gamer here and owner of the Panasonic plasma TC-P46G10. I have a question regarding burn-in that I think I already know the answer to, but I would like some confirmation from the experts. Up until now, I've used only the PS3 and 360 on the plasma, and I have kept my old CRT SDTV around for my SD game consoles. Recently, I noticed some annoying geometry/alignment issues with the tube TV and decided to give it away. I've been using the plasma as my all-purpose gaming TV ever since.


This means that, for the first time ever, I've been playing SD games on my HD television. While the picture quality is fine as long as I sit far away from the TV, I can't help but notice the presence of half-inch long black vertical bars on the sides of the screen during some games. This worries me somewhat because while in-game static images will go away during cutscenes, menus, etc., these black bars are there for the entire time I'm playing the game.


What I would like to know is how worried should I be about permanent burn-in when playing games that feature these bars? Of course, I'll mix in some full-screen TV watching with my retro gaming and even run the white "sweeping" anti-IR image after every play session. I know to keep my brightness setting low and won't do anything crazy like leave these bars on for days straight. As long as I use common sense, playing even something like an epic 70 hour RPG shouldn't pose any problems, right? The set is nearly two years old (2009 model, purchased in September of that year), and I've never experienced any problems other than the minor temporary image retention characteristic of plasma TVs.


----------



## TwoPlusTwo

I have a Kuro PRO-101FD. One of the primary uses for this display is playing PC games.


I just noticed that while playing PC games, the screen doesn't fill up completely. There are very small black strips on the sides where the image won't fill the screen.


Question: Could these black strips burn into the TV?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Relysis

The last two comments are what I'm worrying about as well. Playing SD games and other inputs produces black bars. I don't think burn-in is a problem, but it is definitely a problem with aging the phosphors uniformly. If you do a lot of retro gaming, it could make a noticeable impact on the screen. Anybody have any suggestions, or is this is an unavoidable problem? No Format mode on the television or console seem to fix the issue.


----------



## Tigerriot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TwoPlusTwo* /forum/post/20411900
> 
> 
> I have a Kuro PRO-101FD. One of the primary uses for this display is playing PC games.
> 
> 
> I just noticed that while playing PC games, the screen doesn't fill up completely. There are very small black strips on the sides where the image won't fill the screen.
> 
> 
> Question: Could these black strips burn into the TV?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Anytime you're not using a percentage of the screen like that you're going to burn those other pixels faster than those unused pixels. Like everything else, this is OK in limited situations. There should be a way though to adjust your image settings to get it to be full screen.


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joedaddyecw* /forum/post/20410786
> 
> 
> I'll be receiving my unit this wednesday and i've been doing tons of research on breaking in sets and i found this video on youtube which doesn't seem like a bad idea. i was wondering what people here though about it and if i should go this route.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlzN3...eature=related



If you use this Xbox 360 method make sure to zoom in the image since the 360 visualizer that plays during music doesn't fill the screen.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Relysis* /forum/post/20412020
> 
> 
> The last two comments are what I'm worrying about as well. Playing SD games and other inputs produces black bars. I don't think burn-in is a problem, but it is definitely a problem with aging the phosphors uniformly. If you do a lot of retro gaming, it could make a noticeable impact on the screen. Anybody have any suggestions, or is this is an unavoidable problem? No Format mode on the television or console seem to fix the issue.



You should avoid too much time spent with black bar content. The gray bars for 4:3 content exist for a reason. Watching 2:35:1 content is fine as long as that is not all you do. It is common for people to get a plasma but still primarily view SD content and if they don't use the built in gray bars they will eventually have a problem. For 4:3 content can't you just change your TV's aspect to that so that the gray bars get activated?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grey_Fox719* /forum/post/20390287
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, I have been haunting this forum for alittle while. And you all seem to know your stuff, so I PRAY you can help me. Here is my issue. I recently got myself a Panasonic plasma G25. I am stationed in Okinawa Japan so my choices are VERY limited on TV's. When I saw her in the BX I HAD to have her. they had six left, accidentally sold the one I had purchased, and with no more in stock or coming, I took the floor model. PICTURE, AMAZING. I now had the best looking TV in the barracks. With folks streaming to my room on weekends Blu-Rays in hand. This is my first plasma TV, I had read about break in and assumed that since she was a floor model, then perhaps had reached the 100 or so hours, so then I went online looking for better picture setting, and the ones I had found increased the contrast, sharpness, brightness. Begin issues. Movies are amazing, but, I am a avid gamer (PS3) and at first had no issues (except for what appeared to be "noise" kinda grainy areas in the picture) but now after playing dead rising 2 for two hours, the "Total zombies killed" counter from the bottom right, stayed on screen clear as day. Begin panic. I ramped up the contrast and brightness and ran the scrolling bar, after 5-7 times now it slowly fading. BUT now, I seem to be having pretty bad image retention/burn in on almost everygame I play. I found the colored slides and I am using them as I type this, and intend to let them run while I am at work. BUT, in the slides I can see the outlines and fairly clear details of Test drive unlimited 2 that I played for 3 hours last night. Am I doomed? Haave I ruined the best TV I ever owned? Pleease help a total RETARD when it comes to Plasma TV's.



The Zombrez hexagon is a *****, that gets retained very easily. Basically any HUD element that is white and sharp leaves noticeable IR without much time spent in the game. As mentioned though it is IR and not burn-in, takes quite a while for a retained image to be considered as much. If you game just make sure you mix up your viewing content as much as you can but IR will happen. I have a VT25 that is about a year old so it has many hours on it and over the weekend I got addicted to Nier on the 360 and while watching my CW shows I can see the Health/Magic meter without making much effort to do so. It happens.


----------



## Lord_Spanky

There is some bad advice in this thread. Reader beware.


----------



## Wermey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lord_Spanky* /forum/post/20421816
> 
> 
> There is some bad advice in this thread. Reader beware.



What's your advice?


----------



## emackn

and which advice is bad?


----------



## bigmac31391

Quote:

Originally Posted by *emackn* 
and which advice is bad?
My educated advice NEVER GAME OR COMPUTE on a Plasma! You want see any games at BEST BUY being played on a Plasma ! What is this guy suppose to do, never play that same game ever again. ? GG


----------



## Mastperf

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* 
My educated advice NEVER GAME OR COMPUTE on a Plasma! You want see any games at BEST BUY being played on a Plasma ! What is this guy suppose to do, never play that same game ever again. ? GG
Or they could listen to those who game on their plasma with no problems. You know...as apposed to someone who spends a sad amount of time trolling.

I recently spent 70+ hours playing The Elderscrolls 4 Oblivion on my new low end 720p Samsung plasma. I made sure to mix up my content while not playing. After 70+ hours, it only took 4 or 5 days of normal daily use for all traces of IR to fade. The IR was only visible with my face right next to the screen, so I wasn't very worried. If a low end plasma can pull this off then I would say that mid to high end would have no problem.


----------



## dan_o_00

Ok here goes...


Currently have a new Samsung LED D6000 model and I'm on my second one as the first had some light bleed in the corner and minor clouding. The second one has the same problems of course so I'm looking at my options of either going plasma or just regular LCD until LED is optimized. I wouldn't consider myself a huge videophile but the clouding/light bleed are definitely noticeable and annoying.


That said, in regards to looking at plasma, my main concern is IR of course. The reason for this is because I'm a huge gamer (I say huge but probably not compared to some) where I might game two hours a night during the week, or up to 6 on the weekend. Usually my sessions don't last for more than a couple hours either way. Now I know from reading here that simple IR is corrected after several hours of watching something different that caused the IR in the first place. Am I correct in this statement?


I do have a 23" LED monitor I use for my PC that has HDMI, so I could use that for gaming/non fullscreen images until I have a few hundred hours on the plasma. I currently have the Best Buy Black Tie which covers burn in, but of course that would be annoying having to go through that process.


My other option would be to stick with a standard LCD. I haven't specifically looked at one of these as I wanted LED from the beginning of my search. My old TV was LCD and I was happy with it, minus the fact it was five years old, only 720p, and had some pixel issues.


Either way I only have a week left on my 30 days so I could either go with one of these options or just exchange my LED for the same model in hopes of getting one with less light bleeding.


In summary, for those that game a lot on plasmas, even with the pixel orbiting feature, how bad can IR be? Is it something really noticeable on another game/movie, or is it something that can only be seen really on a white background if you look close enough?


Thanks for the info.


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *janos666* /forum/post/20383266
> 
> 
> Hmm. I started my slide-show and noticed that cool grays became pinkish (~15 minutes). I displayed a BD movie with zoom (~10 minutes) and restarted the slide-show. The grays were cool grays again for some minutes but became pink again after ~10 minutes.
> 
> 
> Is it normal or should I lower the contrast/brightness? (I am using the factory default Standard mode.)



Your first mistake is to bother with the slides in the first place. Just calibrate and watch full screen content as much as possible while phosphors are new. Pay no attention to that break-in slide BS.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan_o_00* /forum/post/20425772
> 
> 
> Ok here goes...
> 
> 
> Currently have a new Samsung LED D6000 model and I'm on my second one as the first had some light bleed in the corner and minor clouding. The second one has the same problems of course so I'm looking at my options of either going plasma or just regular LCD until LED is optimized. I wouldn't consider myself a huge videophile but the clouding/light bleed are definitely noticeable and annoying.
> 
> 
> That said, in regards to looking at plasma, my main concern is IR of course. The reason for this is because I'm a huge gamer (I say huge but probably not compared to some) where I might game two hours a night during the week, or up to 6 on the weekend. Usually my sessions don't last for more than a couple hours either way. Now I know from reading here that simple IR is corrected after several hours of watching something different that caused the IR in the first place. Am I correct in this statement?
> 
> 
> I do have a 23" LED monitor I use for my PC that has HDMI, so I could use that for gaming/non fullscreen images until I have a few hundred hours on the plasma. I currently have the Best Buy Black Tie which covers burn in, but of course that would be annoying having to go through that process.
> 
> 
> My other option would be to stick with a standard LCD. I haven't specifically looked at one of these as I wanted LED from the beginning of my search. My old TV was LCD and I was happy with it, minus the fact it was five years old, only 720p, and had some pixel issues.
> 
> 
> Either way I only have a week left on my 30 days so I could either go with one of these options or just exchange my LED for the same model in hopes of getting one with less light bleeding.
> 
> 
> In summary, for those that game a lot on plasmas, even with the pixel orbiting feature, how bad can IR be? Is it something really noticeable on another game/movie, or is it something that can only be seen really on a white background if you look close enough?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info.



It can go like this. You eventually get hooked on a game with pervasive HUD elements. So you'll be watching something, outside of game of course, and you'll go "hey there is the outline of that HUD element from that game I'm playing".


Response 1: It doesn't bother you much as you know it is IR and it will go away eventually.


Repsonse 2: It bothers you and you'll want to remove it ASAP. The first thing to do is to avoid the source that created the IR. This can be difficult if it was due to a game that you are really into.


----------



## dan_o_00

Does the pixel orbiting feature help diminish this though? I understand that some HUDs are going to be too thick or wide that it wouldn't really matter. I like games that just don't have the garbage. For instance playing through Uncharted it doesn't have anything except for ammo, and that goes away after a while when not shooting.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan_o_00* /forum/post/20429860
> 
> 
> Does the pixel orbiting feature help diminish this though? I understand that some HUDs are going to be too thick or wide that it wouldn't really matter. I like games that just don't have the garbage. For instance playing through Uncharted it doesn't have anything except for ammo, and that goes away after a while when not shooting.



The Pixel Orbiter just keeps the retained image from being sharp, it doesn't keep it from happening. Sure not all games will leave IR, that's why I used the term pervasive in describing a game HUD. If you game you will get IR, how you react to it depends. Bothers the hell out of some and doesn't bother others. LCD doesn't have this problem so an avid gamer has to keep this in mind.


----------



## dan_o_00

Well it can't be any worse than the issues I have with LED at this moment.


----------



## janos666

I am over 200 hours and I didn't really experienced any IR until now (I wasn't really paranoid about it), so I thought it wouldn't hurt if I stop paying attention to vary the screen contents.

Well, I just got my first IR... I played Portal 2 for 3 hours continuously and the blue/orange cross-hair left a mark. It was noticeable in Windows after I quit, so I ran the "scrolling bars" for ~30 minutes. It is weaker now but I can still recognize them on homogeneous black/blue/orange images.


Is it "normal" or does it mean that I should go back to the LCDs before I broke this panel?


----------



## dan_o_00

Why is Discovery HD suggested for break-in? From what little I've seen they have a giant ass logo in the bottom.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan_o_00* /forum/post/20434426
> 
> 
> Why is Discovery HD suggested for break-in? From what little I've seen they have a giant ass logo in the bottom.



HBO , I found is the Best! Regards


----------



## dan_o_00

Yea maybe I can catch a replay of Avatar or something. I would imagine all the colors from that movie would be a good break-in. With that said, my first night with my Samsung 550 I just changed the channel every once in a while to make sure logos weren't a problem. Decided to chance it and played 360 for a couple hours. During this I made sure just to pause it once in a while to get away from the HUD for a bit. Either way I ran the scrolling feature for a few minutes after gaming and didn't notice anything.


----------



## 80sGuy

Yes, it's normal and it is called 'heavy image retention' which will take longer than 30 minutes for it to go away; try days, weeks or perhaps months. I know because I've been there.


----------



## hugogro

Hi folks,


This is my first post on this forum, and i decided to share something i've been working on for the last couple of days...


It's a set of 512 FullHD images (.png format), that goes from RBG (0,0,0) = full dark to (255,255,255) = full white, and then from (255,255,255) to (0,0,0) back again. The video is a FullHD, .wmv file, that shows 10 images per second - about 52s duration, which goes from pure black to pure white, and then returns.


The main concept here is to envenly age all pixels SAFELY. Here are some reasons why this method is arguably more safe than the others:

-- NO STATIC IMAGES : the RGB values are constantly changing, because the video displays 10 different frames per second;

-- EQUALLY AGE ALL PIXELS : all frames have balanced color usage (red, green and blue values are equal), meaning there is no way you can burn one color more than the others;

-- ALL RGB VALUES ARE DISPLAYED : the images' RGB values range from 0-255, meaning your plasma display will warm up completely, using all 256 possible primary colors' values (intensities).


One disvantage of this is, as you're not using full intensity all the time, the break-in process may take a little longer to complete. Anyway, in my opinion, this is a very safe method to break-in a plasma hdtv.



p.s.1: as this is my first post, I'm still not allowed to post urls, so if you're interested in the zip file just pm me;

p.s.2: sorry for the english, I'm brazilian.


----------



## CalWldLif

An observation about

image retention.

VT25

I usually watch nascar

using Tv tuner. 720p

and use custom.

Never noticed any images after 3 hours of racing.

Last sunday I used Settop Box set to 1080i and I used

THX. My settings for

contrast, bright, color, and sharpness

are the same for custom and THX.

after 1.5 hrs I notice

FOX logo image retention. I switched channels and it took an hour to fade.

I don't know whetehr it was going from 720p

to 1080i or using THX

instead of custom.

I suspect it was THX.


----------



## tk2615

I just received my PN59D8000 and I want to run the break-in slides. I have burned a couple of DVD-R DVDs using the info on eaprogramming. The problem I'm having is that the slids will run for just ove 25 minutes then will shut off. The TV says lost signal. I'm getting to slide C52 according to my Panasonic BDT210, just over half way. Any ideas what might be wrong?


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tk2615* /forum/post/20450145
> 
> 
> I just received my PN59D8000 and I want to run the break-in slides. I have burned a couple of DVD-R DVDs using the info on eaprogramming. The problem I'm having is that the slids will run for just ove 25 minutes then will shut off. The TV says lost signal. I'm getting to slide C52 according to my Panasonic BDT210, just over half way. Any ideas what might be wrong?



This is a DVD burnt from the ISO image? It should just loop automatically when played. Worked fine for me and I still pop in the DVD from time to time to get rid of gaming IR more quickly.


----------



## tk2615




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/20450618
> 
> 
> This is a DVD burnt from the ISO image? It should just loop automatically when played. Worked fine for me and I still pop in the DVD from time to time to get rid of gaming IR more quickly.



That's what I thought, but it won't even play the entire DVD. It just stops at the 25 minute mark and shuts off. The TV tells me it lost the signal. I did the the slides to play on an SD card, but they are a lot darker then the ones on the DVD.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^They are a lot darker because you have to set the brightness and contrast on that input. Press menu on your remote when you're viewing pics.


----------



## janos666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tk2615* /forum/post/20450145
> 
> 
> I just received my PN59D8000 and I want to run the break-in slides.



I took a look at those slides and I also created my own version but I eventually decided to use the built-in "Scrolling Bars" (settings / burn in protection) because it looked nice and reliable.


I ran it for ~3 days (continuously while I wasn't at home) on my 51D550. I think it worked fine because I am using this TV as a PC monitor and I didn't have any serious IR problems yet.


* I had noticeable IR after I played Portal 2 for 3 hours continuously (Cell Light 20, Contrast 95 as I always use it since the initial "break in" - with the scrolling gradient) but it eventually disappeared. (It weakened after ~30 minutes of scrolling and completely disappeared after 2x45 minutes of BD watching - 16:9 TV show from DB - and I didn't really noticed the IR on that content, I spotted it only on homogeneous images.) And I even played that game again after the TV show episodes and the IR didn't happen again before I finished the campaign.



PS.:

But I think I will wait some weeks before I start playing "Dragon Age 2".

-> Did anybody try that already on these now Samsung PDPs?

I am not sure how frequently I should give it a break (it's hard to find watchable 16:9 contents).


----------



## Dayton

Didn't notice IR at all with Dragon Age 2 for the 360 on a Panny VT25.


----------



## hotskins

Quote:

Originally Posted by *janos666* 
* I had noticeable IR after I played Portal 2 for 3 hours continuously (Cell Light 20, Contrast 95
I think any TV will get IR with contrast at 95. I keep contrast at 70 when I play games. Higher contrast does look better though, maybe Ill try mine at 95 to see how it effects IR.


----------



## marleebrz

Just a question. How do I check for burn in and or image retention?

Like what color display should I have on the screen and how do I display it?

I have a new PN51D8000 and just want to have a peek once in a while to reassure myself that everything's still good. Just want to be cautious. Thanks for any advice in advance.


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *marleebrz* 
Just a question. How do I check for burn in and or image retention?

Like what color display should I have on the screen and how do I display it?

I have a new PN51D8000 and just want to have a peek once in a while to reassure myself that everything's still good. Just want to be cautious. Thanks for any advice in advance.
When it happens it is obvious, I wouldn't go looking for it. But typically it will be noticeable in scenes that aren't too busy, like scenes with a lot of sky or the like.


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hotskins* 
I think any TV will get IR with contrast at 95. I keep contrast at 70 when I play games. Higher contrast does look better though, maybe Ill try mine at 95 to see how it effects IR.
Usually a Contrast of 95 only makes sense on a LCD. I use 62 on my VT25 with AGC off and I find a Contrast much higher makes images look too "hot". For IR another setting to keep in mind is Sharpness, mine is at 40 since if I go any lower the overall picture suffers for sources other than the PS3.


----------



## janos666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marleebrz* /forum/post/20457247
> 
> 
> How do I check for burn in and or image retention?



You will probably find some ghost images on a full-screen 0% black image if you recently displayed any static contents (channel logo, windows desktop, etc). Those are usually disappear after some minutes of dynamic image content.


You can find the real IR easily if you search for it on a homogeneous full-screen image of the same (or similar) color which was statically kept on the same place for an extended period. (You will see a darker area.)

So take a look at some full-screen color patches like white, red, green, blue and may be yellow, cyan, magenta.


If you have a real burn-in or heavy IR then you won't need help to find it, I guess.



Contrast:

The Contrast and Brightness have only one proper calibrated setting, where the darkest gray is barely but distinguishable from 0% black as well as the lightest gray from white.

If I want lower peak brightness, I need to decrease the Cell Light value.


----------



## dan_o_00

Since I'm exchanging my plasma I said to hell with it and turned the settings up including contrast. After playing a game with a very dark, black outline around the radar for two hours or so, I noticed IR. I ran the white wash thing on the Samsung 550 and it was gone after 10-15 minutes.


----------



## eXgo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan_o_00* /forum/post/20462350
> 
> 
> Since I'm exchanging my plasma I said to hell with it and turned the settings up including contrast. After playing a game with a very dark, black outline around the radar for two hours or so, I noticed IR. I ran the white wash thing on the Samsung 550 and it was gone after 10-15 minutes.



lol, so u ended up exchanging another one?


i swear some folks just like the option of returning their sets week after week. that way they get a million different sets.


best buy is going to hate u










they will soon have a picture of you and will forward to all futureshops and bestbuys in your city.










was it the buzzing that makes u want to return the 550?


that's the last post i saw of yours in the official thread.. i do think the more picky u get.. the more picky u get... lol


kinda like girls.. they can divorce u so easy now adays.. hey? and just go window shopping for a better one..


----------



## JLennerth

Is there anywhere online I can buy a dvd or preferably a Blu-ray that I can run on my PS3 for the break-in period? Is there one that has auto looping so I don't have to start the disc over again once the images are done(i.e. can leave on over night w/out having to do anything)?


----------



## dan_o_00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eXgo* /forum/post/20463138
> 
> 
> lol, so u ended up exchanging another one?
> 
> 
> i swear some folks just like the option of returning their sets week after week. that way they get a million different sets.
> 
> 
> best buy is going to hate u
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they will soon have a picture of you and will forward to all futureshops and bestbuys in your city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> was it the buzzing that makes u want to return the 550?
> 
> 
> that's the last post i saw of yours in the official thread.. i do think the more picky u get.. the more picky u get... lol
> 
> 
> kinda like girls.. they can divorce u so easy now adays.. hey? and just go window shopping for a better one..



Yea it was the buzzing. Of course this one has buzzing as well although not quite as bad. Guess I'll have to live with it now until I decide to use my Black Tie.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JLennerth* /forum/post/20472077
> 
> 
> Is there anywhere online I can buy a dvd or preferably a Blu-ray that I can run on my PS3 for the break-in period? Is there one that has auto looping so I don't have to start the disc over again once the images are done(i.e. can leave on over night w/out having to do anything)?



Here ya go:

Plasma Break-in DVD download/purchase page


----------



## JLennerth

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dan_o_00* 
Yea maybe I can catch a replay of Avatar or something. I would imagine all the colors from that movie would be a good break-in. With that said, my first night with my Samsung 550 I just changed the channel every once in a while to make sure logos weren't a problem. Decided to chance it and played 360 for a couple hours. During this I made sure just to pause it once in a while to get away from the HUD for a bit. Either way I ran the scrolling feature for a few minutes after gaming and didn't notice anything.
Thanks Dayton is there an option on the PS3 to loop a chapter or restart the movie once ended( I was thinking about Avatar too)?


----------



## lightbox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hugogro* /forum/post/20447539
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> 
> This is my first post on this forum, and i decided to share something i've been working on for the last couple of days...
> 
> 
> It's a set of 512 FullHD images (.png format), that goes from RBG (0,0,0) = full dark to (255,255,255) = full white, and then from (255,255,255) to (0,0,0) back again. The video is a FullHD, .wmv file, that shows 10 images per second - about 52s duration, which goes from pure black to pure white, and then returns.
> 
> 
> The main concept here is to envenly age all pixels SAFELY. Here are some reasons why this method is arguably more safe than the others:
> 
> -- NO STATIC IMAGES : the RGB values are constantly changing, because the video displays 10 different frames per second;
> 
> -- EQUALLY AGE ALL PIXELS : all frames have balanced color usage (red, green and blue values are equal), meaning there is no way you can burn one color more than the others;
> 
> -- ALL RGB VALUES ARE DISPLAYED : the images' RGB values range from 0-255, meaning your plasma display will warm up completely, using all 256 possible primary colors' values (intensities).
> 
> 
> One disvantage of this is, as you're not using full intensity all the time, the break-in process may take a little longer to complete. Anyway, in my opinion, this is a very safe method to break-in a plasma hdtv.
> 
> 
> 
> p.s.1: as this is my first post, I'm still not allowed to post urls, so if you're interested in the zip file just pm me;
> 
> p.s.2: sorry for the english, I'm brazilian.



On behalf of hugogro, here is the URL for the zip file containing his plasma break-in video clip: http://www.4shared.com/file/OwO8fwIy..._Break-in.html (that's http://www.4shared.com/file/OwO8fwIy/Plasma_Break-in.html ). I have downloaded it to my own PC, and scans with various malware protection utilities do not indicate any problems.


This YouTube clip shows what it looks like in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_iO_K72_I


----------



## JLennerth

can a PS3 play the disc found here: http://eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm 


?


----------



## Dayton

Yes, any player that can play's DVD's can. The DVD also plays and loops automatically. Download the ISO and burn a DVD yourself to see.


----------



## chain5aw

Using break-in images on a PS3 slideshow?


My new Panasonic tc-p50gt25 just arrived and I want to start the break-in process immediately. I've loaded the break-in images onto an SD card and using the photo slideshow feature on the PS3 it seems to be working great. The only thing is that on the "SLOW" slideshow setting I think images only last around 15-20 seconds on screen then there is a fade transition to the next image. loop is default, and i've been letting it run on my old LCD for about 20 mins now.


Is this OK to use?


----------



## JLennerth

Just bought break-in disc.


----------



## JLennerth

I am presuming that I can watch regular tv when I want to, then at night before I go to bed just pop in the break-in disc, correct? I usually watch a lot of CNN. Should I stay away from CNN until the break-in process is completed? How many total hours do I need to run the break-in disc for?


----------



## Tigerriot

I'm curious why Discovery HD Theater is considered a great break in channel when it has the words "Discovery" in white on the screen at all times?


Granted, it's small lettering, but it's still there the whole time I had the channel on.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tigerriot* /forum/post/20479589
> 
> 
> I'm curious why Discovery HD Theater is considered a great break in channel when it has the words "Discovery" in white on the screen at all times?
> 
> 
> Granted, it's small lettering, but it's still there the whole time I had the channel on.



HBO is the best channel to watch during breakin period. That must be old information on discovery.


----------



## Wermey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* /forum/post/20483130
> 
> 
> HBO is the best channel to watch during breakin period. That must be old information on discovery.



HBO late night is the best time to watch for break in period





















There's somethings that can help ease the break in pain


----------



## JLennerth

I bought the break-in DVD for a TCP65GT30 I will be buying between now and the end of year. What do I want to have everything set at when running the disc(contrast/brightness/THX mode?)


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JLennerth* 
I bought the break-in DVD for a TCP65GT30 I will be buying between now and the end of year. What do I want to have everything set at when running the disc(contrast/brightness/THX mode?)
I think running the slides under your normal viewing settings is the way to go. But running the slides under a Vivid/Dynamic mode is a great way speed up the removal of a retained image.


----------



## NoChanceMRP

Just bought a Panasonic GT30 50"


I first put the TV on THX, but didn't like "cool". I went to custom and copied the settings, and put it to neutral instead, I also turned on the pixel orbiter.


I've only watched a Yankees game, and few episodes of Law & Order. Both were HD. Everything looked phenomenal. Can't remember what the screen format was, it just filled screen properly.


I only watch HD channels and play PS3. I'm perfectly satisfied as of right now. Do I still need to follow a break in guide?


----------



## Dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by *NoChanceMRP* 
Just bought a Panasonic GT30 50"


I first put the TV on THX, but didn't like "cool". I went to custom and copied the settings, and put it to neutral instead, I also turned on the pixel orbiter.


I've only watched a Yankees game, and few episodes of Law & Order. Both were HD. Everything looked phenomenal. Can't remember what the screen format was, it just filled screen properly.


I only watch HD channels and play PS3. I'm perfectly satisfied as of right now. Do I still need to follow a break in guide?
No, break-in isn't required. It is just a way to get in hours since the thought is that issues like image retention become less of a nuisance as the plasma ages. Manufacturer User Manuals also tend to make note of avoiding gaming, or the like, for the first 100 hours so the concept may not be without merit. But no it is not "necessary".


----------



## dadjan

Hi!


Can anybody tell me what is better suited in removing IR, this DVD or just a normal movie?


I have been searching for a Pioneer LX5090 for a while and I thought that I had finally found it. When I went to look at it and inserted this Break-in DVD and the white full screen came up, there was obviously some IR or burn-in (this is when I started crying). The guy who owns the TV has only run it in his store to display the logo of the company. He apparently ran it so, for 8 hours per day, for 6 months. Is there any chance of this being IR instead of burn-in or is this TV a lost cause? What a shame if it is, such a great TV only used to display a logo in a store...


Anyway, the guy was nice and said that he would loop a DVD for several days if I gave one to him, to see if it would go away. That's why I'm searching for the best possible way to remove IR. If somebody has the optimal solution, please tell me










Thanks!


----------



## lightbox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dadjan* /forum/post/20486506
> 
> 
> I have been searching for a Pioneer LX5090 for a while and I thought that I had finally found it. When I went to look at it and inserted this Break-in DVD and the white full screen came up, there was obviously some IR or burn-in (this is when I started crying). The guy who owns the TV has only run it in his store to display the logo of the company. He apparently ran it so, for 8 hours per day, for 6 months. Is there any chance of this being IR instead of burn-in or is this TV a lost cause? What a shame if it is, such a great TV only used to display a logo in a store...



If the guy who runs a store selling TVs doesn't know better than to run a static image for 8 hours a day on a plasma screen, I'd be buying my screen somewhere else. Not likely that burn-in will go away.


----------



## dadjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lightbox* /forum/post/20488932
> 
> 
> If the guy who runs a store selling TVs doesn't know better than to run a static image for 8 hours a day on a plasma screen, I'd be buying my screen somewhere else. Not likely that burn-in will go away.



It was actually a clothing store, haha.


----------



## shadyridr

you bought a TV from a clothing store or hes giving it to you?


----------



## lightbox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dadjan* /forum/post/20489042
> 
> 
> It was actually a clothing store, haha.



Will he throw in a few pairs of blue jeans?


----------



## dadjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shadyridr* /forum/post/20492332
> 
> 
> you bought a TV from a clothing store or hes giving it to you?



I haven't bought it yet. The Break-In DVD is on a constant loop on the TV and I just heard from the guy today and he said that the IR/Burn-In was almost gone. I'll believe it when I see it but at least there is some hope! He's gonna run it 24/7 over the weekend and then I'll go check it out.


Are there any other tests that I can run to see how the TV performs? Other than inserting a Blu-Ray and watching it with my own eyes.


----------



## shadyridr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dadjan* /forum/post/20493415
> 
> 
> I haven't bought it yet. The Break-In DVD is on a constant loop on the TV and I just heard from the guy today and he said that the IR/Burn-In was almost gone. I'll believe it when I see it but at least there is some hope! He's gonna run it 24/7 over the weekend and then I'll go check it out.
> 
> 
> Are there any other tests that I can run to see how the TV performs? Other than inserting a Blu-Ray and watching it with my own eyes.



Save up some money and buy a new TV from a real electronics store or at least a refurbished unit from TigerDirect or something.


----------



## dadjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shadyridr* /forum/post/20493498
> 
> 
> Save up some money and buy a new TV from a real electronics store or at least a refurbished unit from TigerDirect or something.



If it turns out that this was just IR and the TV is perfectly fine, I'd rather have the Pioneer LX5090 than any other 50" Plasma TV. All the other ones that I have looked at have annoying flaws like floating blacks, input lag etc. Even though this is a 2 year old TV, it is arguably still the best plasma set ever made.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dadjan* /forum/post/20493981
> 
> 
> If it turns out that this was just IR and the TV is perfectly fine, I'd rather have the Pioneer LX5090 than any other 50" Plasma TV. All the other ones that I have looked at have annoying flaws like floating blacks, input lag etc. Even though this is a 2 year old TV, it is arguably still the best plasma set ever made.



But it was misused, bet that is burn-in but I guess you can try and see. For his intended purpose that guy should have went LCD.


----------



## JLennerth

Anyone know how soon the break-in disc should arrive? I bought it on 5/23


----------



## Jeipii




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dadjan* /forum/post/20486506
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 
> Can anybody tell me what is better suited in removing IR, this DVD or just a normal movie?
> 
> 
> I have been searching for a Pioneer LX5090 for a while and I thought that I had finally found it. When I went to look at it and inserted this Break-in DVD and the white full screen came up, there was obviously some IR or burn-in (this is when I started crying). The guy who owns the TV has only run it in his store to display the logo of the company. He apparently ran it so, for 8 hours per day, for 6 months. Is there any chance of this being IR instead of burn-in or is this TV a lost cause? What a shame if it is, such a great TV only used to display a logo in a store...
> 
> 
> Anyway, the guy was nice and said that he would loop a DVD for several days if I gave one to him, to see if it would go away. That's why I'm searching for the best possible way to remove IR. If somebody has the optimal solution, please tell me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If the logo image is static and does not change spot in the screen then I'd say that there is definitely some sort of burn in (either red, green or blue phosphors have aged unevenly in the burn in spot) Or if the logo text or other object burnt in has been white then all phosphors in that area have aged faster than rest of the screen. If I were you I wouldn't have high hopes to completely getting rid of that ghosting


----------



## JLennerth

on the GT30 how long can I leave a tv show/movie paused on the screen w/out having to worry one bit about burn in? I always want to be safe.


----------



## Tigerriot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JLennerth* /forum/post/20505198
> 
> 
> on the GT30 how long can I leave a tv show/movie paused on the screen w/out having to worry one bit about burn in? I always want to be safe.



It's generally recommended you don't leave anything paused on a plasma. If you get too comfortable doing that, eventually there will come a day when you forget about it and come back an hour later.


Certainly pausing to go to the bathroom isn't a problem, but I wouldn't go intentionally pausing stuff routinely.


----------



## JLennerth

Got it


----------



## Maticus22

Just bought the Panny 55gt30. I'm running the break in slides now on the set (its in our spare bedroom running till the new tv stand arrives). My question is I just have the tv settings on normal viewing nothing changed. Do I need to change any video settings during the break in slides?


----------



## kris achar

_Hi,


Here's a interesting video :_






.


----------



## Dayton

About the video, hopefully people won't "have at it" after the first 100 hundred hours which is suggested.


----------



## wrstdude

Ugh...so my new VT20 has a case of Burn in/IR...My wife's love for The Today Show after I leave for work, now has it's scrolling bar imbedded in my screen. Noticed it about 2 weeks ago and told her no more Today Show. I have been watching lots of HD content, but I'm not seeing any real improvement.


Is there _anything_ I can do besides watching HD content, or do I just have to


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Heavy Image-Retention, just keep on watching lots of full-screen contents. It will take some time, weeks or even months. The more your wife repeats that program, the greater your chances of getting burn-in.


----------



## wrstdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20522420
> 
> 
> ^^Heavy Image-Retention, just keep on watching lots of full-screen contents. It will take some time, weeks or even months. The more your wife repeats that program, the greater your chances of getting burn-in.



Thanks. I'm setting up a nanny cam to monitor her program viewing for when I'm gone.










Will the IR scrolling white bar or break in slides help at all?


----------



## 80sGuy

It will, use the scroll bars sparingly but don't use it too often. You can run the slides for 30 minutes to an hour then balance it out with full screen content, preferably Animal Planet or National Geographic.


Nanny Cam huh, hope you'll get what you want and nothing else more than you can handle.


----------



## Dayton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wrstdude* /forum/post/20522738
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'm setting up a nanny cam to monitor her program viewing for when I'm gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will the IR scrolling white bar or break in slides help at all?



Running the break-in slides at a Vivid/Dynamic mode as a "color wash" during non-viewing periods should speed up the process. That and avoiding the content that was the source of the IR.


----------



## wrstdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20522847
> 
> 
> It will, use the scroll bars sparingly but don't use it too often. You can run the slides for 30 minutes to an hour then balance it out with full screen content, preferably Animal Planet or National Geographic.
> 
> 
> Nanny Cam huh, hope you'll get what you want and nothing else more than you can handle.



Thanks again-will do. Me too, or at least I better remember its running for my own sake.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dayton* /forum/post/20522857
> 
> 
> Running the break-in slides at a Vivid/Dynamic mode as a "color wash" during non-viewing periods should speed up the process. That and avoiding the content that was the source of the IR.



Thanks. I have the break in slides on an SD card-I got the photo settings from a post here somewhere. I'll run them then go to HBO for my HD.


----------



## scarpi

To break my tv in, I put it in the zoom mode so no bars or logos, lowered the contrast and brightness to less than 50% ( about 45 or so), and tuned it to the Animal Planet channel. I run it for a few hours a day. No bars, no logos, just filling the screen with typical tv.


----------



## tazz3

Hello all i just got a st30 and iam about 30 hours useing dnices break in

and i cant see brigthness flux but somebody on another forum said you cant see them

runing slides is there any thruth to this?? if you can see this on a tv show why cant u se them on slides


----------



## Peter Johnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tazz3* /forum/post/20527011
> 
> 
> Hello all i just got a st30 and iam about 30 hours useing dnices break in
> 
> and i cant see brigthness flux but somebody on another forum said you cant see them
> 
> runing slides is there any thruth to this?? if you can see this on a tv show why cant u se them on slides



Your first mistake is believing all the BS about the importance of running slides. Now that you have accepted that myth, you may find all kinds of issues that otherwise would not exist.


----------



## Tigerriot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Johnson* /forum/post/20568949
> 
> 
> Your first mistake is believing all the BS about the importance of running slides. Now that you have accepted that myth, you may find all kinds of issues that otherwise would not exist.



So problems like fluctuating brightness on the 2011 Panasonics are myths? lol


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tigerriot* /forum/post/20570481
> 
> 
> So problems like fluctuating brightness on the 2011 Panasonics are myths? lol



yes, floating blacks (fluctuating brightness) is still a problem for 2011 panasonics


----------



## 4ML

My 50ST30 is coming in on Wednesday and was wondering is anyone has used the calibration settings from the website of tv-buying guide? http://3d-tvbuyingguide.com/panasoni...-p2.html#page2


----------



## CalWldLif




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *4ML* /forum/post/20588792
> 
> 
> My 50ST30 is coming in on Wednesday and was wondering is anyone has used the calibration settings from the website of tv-buying guide? http://3d-tvbuyingguide.com/panasoni...-p2.html#page2



I looked up my VT25

on that site. No way would I use those settings.

I think D-Nice's Service menu offsets would be better.

Those settings you posted are HOT. they even say it will shorten the TVs life.

No way those settings will save electricity.


----------



## kackle85

Hello, I have had a vt25 for about four months now and use it for mostly games and moves. I played NBA 2k11 franchise mode for about four hours about 2 weeks ago and afterwards i noticed what i thought was some image retention of the menus. Here I am two weeks later and when the screen pans from one side to the other i still see some vertical bars. At what point can you determine that you have burn in rather than IR?


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Yes, if you keep on repeating it with games for that many hours. It will most likely go away after some weeks or even months but you must stop. Despite the incredible picture quality (and who wouldn't want to take advantage of it with "Call of Duty"??) this is the downside to all Plasma panels if you're a heavy gamer.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CalWldLif* /forum/post/20589922
> 
> 
> I looked up my VT25
> 
> on that site. No way would I use those settings.
> 
> I think D-Nice's Service menu offsets would be better.
> 
> Those settings you posted are HOT. they even say it will shorten the TVs life.
> 
> No way those settings will save electricity.



Also, the setting made white backgrounds turned into a slight reddish hue, this is most notable when you launch Netflix. If you have have THX, stick with it because no setting can top it, also, Cinema mode is closest when viewing Viera Apps. My settings are at 50% (Brightness, Contrast, Color and Warm2) and all the Pro settings are left at '0'.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

I didn't do a proper break-in (I started to, but that didn't last long...) on my GT25. The only IR I've ever experienced was when I played Oblivion for one weekend straight. I could just barely see the HUD on the bottom of the screen. And I had to try to find it.


So ditch the break-in slides and just watch the TV. Unless there are other people in your household watching the TV and you don't leave static images on it for crazy amount of time, it will be fine.


----------



## silvercans

So I got a LG plasma today and while I was cooking dinner (ie 1 hour) I tuned to the tv to channel that had no reception (ie snow). That's ok during the burn-in period right? I know it takes 100hours or so to be burned in but I just wanted to make sure "snow" wasn't harmful in anyway during the break-in period. Thanks


----------



## 80sGuy

^^It is known to be one of the best ways to even out the phosphors. I utilized it continuously for a couple of nights when I encountered some heavy image-retention and it helped.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Snow is okay. Just remember to keep your settings for contrast and brightness below 50.


----------



## 43sbest

I'm thinking of buying a 60 inch GT30 next week but all the different ways mentioned on this thread to "burn in" the set has me gun shy. I'm not new to plasma; I owned a 2010 Samsung PN 58C8000 for about five months, the set got so hot Samsung bought it back (the new ones aren't any cooler). It had a great picture and I didn't do anything special to "burn it in" just watched full screen programs (except the commercials which had side bars) and had no IR what so ever while I had it.

I watch a lot of MLB network, ESPN, NFL, NFL network, NASCAR & etc. I won't be playing any games on the set so there won't be any constant or fixed images on the set.

My question would then be is the "burn in" process necessary for what I watch.

I see a lot of people say they run slides for "burn in"; what exactly are the slides there using?

I don't want to spend $XXXX and end up with a set I can't watch because I didn't "burn in" the set properly.

Thanks in advance for your help and advise.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^If you watch a whole of lot of sports channels such as ESPN, then chances are your set WILL develop some kind of heavy Image-Retention (or possibly leading to Burn-In) due to the high-contrast and heavy-opacity of the ESPN logo, and also because it is constantly on. Generally speaking, there shouldn't be any harm in watching something with heavy static logos so long as there are commercial breaks to 'wash' it off periodically.


If you haven't developed any serious flaws from your previous Samsung set besides heat, then you shouldn't be worrying about IR and Burn-Ins. I'm not sure what are the differences between Samsung and Panasonic. I owned a Panasonic Plasma and I can tell you that in the very first week, I acquired some serious HEAVY Image-Retention that took two months to get rid of -- with a series of slides, running snow screens, plastering cartoons all over and watching everything in FULL screen for 2-3 consecutive nights tends to have helped.


The slides you mentioned about are a series of solid-colored filled j-peg formats that was designed to fill the entire screen in a slideshow. As long as you watch tv with the screen fully scattered with pictures you should be fine. People wanted to have peace of mind by running them to even-out the phosphors quickly so that they can either watch letter-boxed movies or have their sets calibrated. I used them shortly afterward due to my incident but since then I've also been watching a lot of 4:3 stuffs zoomed in with my remote to fill the screen.


----------



## 43sbest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20635076
> 
> 
> ^^If you watch a whole of lot of sports channels such as ESPN, then chances are your set WILL develop some kind of heavy Image-Retention (or possibly leading to Burn-In) due to the high-contrast and heavy-opacity of the ESPN logo, and also because it is constantly on. Generally speaking, there shouldn't be any harm in watching something with heavy static logos so long as there are commercial breaks to 'wash' it off periodically.
> 
> 
> If you haven't developed any serious flaws from your previous Samsung set besides heat, then you shouldn't be worrying about IR and Burn-Ins. I'm not sure what are the differences between Samsung and Panasonic. I owned a Panasonic Plasma and I can tell you that in the very first week, I acquired some serious HEAVY Image-Retention that took two months to get rid of -- with a series of slides, running snow screens, plastering cartoons all over and watching everything in FULL screen for 2-3 consecutive nights tends to have helped.
> 
> 
> The slides you mentioned about are a series of solid-colored filled j-peg formats that was designed to fill the entire screen in a slideshow. As long as you watch tv with the screen fully scattered with pictures you should be fine. People wanted to have peace of mind by running them to even-out the phosphors quickly so that they can either watch letter-boxed movies or have their sets calibrated. I used them shortly afterward due to my incident but since then I've also been watching a lot of 4:3 stuffs zoomed in with my remote to fill the screen.



Would I be correct in assuming the slides are in the TVs menu?


----------



## 80sGuy

Sorry, no they are not. The slides are not from Panasonic. There is a link in here somewhere buried in this forum, I believed it is called D-Nice's slide or something like that.


----------



## 43sbest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20635883
> 
> 
> Sorry, no they are not. The slides are not from Panasonic. There is a link in here somewhere buried in this forum, I believed it is called D-Nice's slide or something like that.



Sounds to me like a crap shoot and possibly not worth the trouble or posibility of IR. Think I will be looking to buy an LED and give up a little on PQ. We have a 40 inch. 2010 Sharp 820 in our MBR; it has a great picture with no motion problems and was easy to set up.


Thanks for your help-------much appreciated.


----------



## luigionlsd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20635883
> 
> 
> Sorry, no they are not. The slides are not from Panasonic. There is a link in here somewhere buried in this forum, I believed it is called D-Nice's slide or something like that.



D-Nice is a well-known ISF calibrator who visits AVS, and he's provided some good settings for use with the Panasonic 2011 displays. They're available at another forum (google will help!). The slides you're looking for are called Evangelo2, and can be put on DVD, CD or SD/USB.


----------



## ralphie2k

For over a 2 months now I got a Panasonic 46GT30. I already have quite some experience with plasmas (I own a G10 also) and am aware of the so called break-in and stuff to the first ~ 200 hours using break in DVD etc. The new GT30 is also treated in this way

Now it happened that there is a static image of a set-top box for probably nine hours has been running. It is a showroom and the system automatically goes out after office hours, so I know it hasn't been any longer. The background of the set top is solid black containing a number of icons with white edges and white images. Now I keep seeing those icons when watching movies at normal distance. Now I read a lot about retention and burn in, and now starting to believe it's not just IR.


On a white background I see the icons in some kind of grey color, with a black (or really dark) backgound it's vice versa, but less noticable.


What I have tried over the last 1.5 week:


- On TV channel with only noise

- Bluray with lots of color changes

- EA Break in DVD

- Jscreenfix


In addition, I've used the internal pixel orbiter as well, and also used the white bar scroll function


Any suggestions?


----------



## Wanderlai

New to plasma and I'm looking at buying the Samsung 64D7000 or the Panny P65GT30. So for break in period "everyone " uses the Evangelo2 slides? How long is it best to run them? Is it worth buying the Disney WoW disk or just use settings posted by some pros on here? Any other tips?


----------



## bluc

looking at the samsung PS51D550C1M and wondering about burn in. Would be my first plasma and wondering what settings (brightness contrast etc) I would have to have the tv on while breaking it in is 200hrs still the norm and getting lot of mixed info on running in plasma. Frieneds family say they did nothing special and just avoided high brightness and contrast settings for a month or so.others on forum talk about break in dvd's and special slide shows.I have no idea about plasma and help much appreciated.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20635076
> 
> 
> ^^If you watch a whole of lot of sports channels such as ESPN, then chances are your set WILL develop some kind of heavy Image-Retention (or possibly leading to Burn-In) due to the high-contrast and heavy-opacity of the ESPN logo, and also because it is constantly on. Generally speaking, there shouldn't be any harm in watching something with heavy static logos so long as there are commercial breaks to 'wash' it off periodically.
> 
> 
> If you haven't developed any serious flaws from your previous Samsung set besides heat, then you shouldn't be worrying about IR and Burn-Ins. I'm not sure what are the differences between Samsung and Panasonic. I owned a Panasonic Plasma and I can tell you that in the very first week, I acquired some serious HEAVY Image-Retention that took two months to get rid of -- with a series of slides, running snow screens, plastering cartoons all over and watching everything in FULL screen for 2-3 consecutive nights tends to have helped.
> 
> 
> The slides you mentioned about are a series of solid-colored filled j-peg formats that was designed to fill the entire screen in a slideshow. As long as you watch tv with the screen fully scattered with pictures you should be fine. People wanted to have peace of mind by running them to even-out the phosphors quickly so that they can either watch letter-boxed movies or have their sets calibrated. I used them shortly afterward due to my incident but since then I've also been watching a lot of 4:3 stuffs zoomed in with my remote to fill the screen.



Not accurate, I watch espn alot and have never seen anything other than temporary mild ir.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon* /forum/post/20644759
> 
> 
> Not accurate, I watch espn alot and have never seen anything other than temporary mild ir.



Hi,


Iam sure if you keep watching that particular channel daily for 6 to 8 hours for a year,that mild IR would upgrades itself to burn-in...

May i know viewing how long that ESPN channel results in that mild IR.Iam sure everyone here is curious to know that fact.So as we could avoid that amount of duration of any channel or content having deep dark colorful logos.And what brand of plasma you are using ?


love,

kris.


----------



## JasonMK

Got my slides downloaded, and my Panasonic 50GT30 arrives Thursday. So needless to say I have been reading through this forum for hours trying to get the latest advice on breaking it in. What I have found is countless links back to the 2004 and this 2007 thread, as well as many people reminding us that "plasma technology has changed a lot". Most of the discussion around breaking in seems to be by newbies (like myself) or veteran's referring back to these older threads. Am I to infer from the lack of much current adjustments to the break in procedures over the past few years that most new plasmas don't really need to be broken in? Evangelos homepage even proclaims the HD wars are over and that 'Toshiba has thrown in the towel'...that was over 3 years ago. I just honestly want to get caught up to speed, is breaking in your plasma with the slides _'so 2008'_?


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Jason, I didn't use slides on my GT25 and it's fine. The slides are just placebo for those hyped up about a new plasma and scared to have anything happen to it.


Psh... I had one guy tell me not to rerun the same movie over and over again because the pixels wouldn't age properly together.


Okay, how about I just watch the TV like it's meant to be watched and not leave it on for days straight eating up electricity for no reason...


----------



## JasonMK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/20646901
> 
> 
> Jason, I didn't use slides on my GT25 and it's fine. The slides are just placebo for those hyped up about a new plasma and scared to have anything happen to it.
> 
> 
> Psh... I had one guy tell me not to rerun the same movie over and over again because the pixels wouldn't age properly together.
> 
> 
> Okay, how about I just watch the TV like it's meant to be watched and not leave it on for days straight eating up electricity for no reason...



Thanks for the reply, and this is kind of what I was referring too. Are the days of breaking in your Plasma gone like waiting for an open phone line to connect to the internet or am I still missing something. I too don't want to screw up my set, but if all of us are running the slides just to feel better and not actually doing anything it woul dbe nice to know. Anyone else not break in their set and have any experiences to share with us?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JasonMK* /forum/post/20647033
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply, and this is kind of what I was referring too. Are the days of breaking in your Plasma gone like waiting for an open phone line to connect to the internet or am I still missing something. I too don't want to screw up my set, but if all of us are running the slides just to feel better and not actually doing anything it woul dbe nice to know. Anyone else not break in their set and have any experiences to share with us?



Hi,

i tried the color slides for break-in,But on day one itself i got mild patches of pink,yellowish-green here & there.So i stopped using the colour slides and started to watch BD movies & DTH-HD content like DiscoveryHD,National geographyHD...And all our HD satellite channels have advts for every 20 minutes or so of the episodes.During which the channel logos disappear giving some breathing time to the phosphors.

And by the way our 50 inches panny is 3 months old and iam using it as a regular tv,And my wife watches here soaps & cooking channels daily no I.R till now.

And for the first 150 hrs i used our plasma to watch mainly BD movies like Toy Story,bond movies,transformers,etc.I noticed that some Animated movies fill the screen fully.So you do not need to use zoom1 setting to remove the black bars in the top & bottom of the screen.

And while watching BD movies with fullscreen content you can set your tv color to vivid and the picture resolution to max.i.e the brightness,contrast & colour can be set to your preferred levels.As long you do not pause the image,but watch action movie content,you need not use the safe settings as prescribed by many to watch tv broadcast with channel logos ! So in 4 to 6 months depending on use usage the plasma will be ready for calibration.

And yes,after 150 hours of usage the picture quality improves very drastically and i have personally noticed this fact.

So start enjoying your tv with hi-def content and i personally feel that break-in slides is not necessary,Since I.R & burn-in can happen to any plasma if static images are viewed 24x7,month after month.

So using slides for the first 150 or 200 hrs does not guarantee you that you will not get I.R.

I have also noticed that a cold start plasma is more prone to I.R,If you use with PC,for games,and calibrating your home theater Amp or setting up a blu-ray disc player ! So allow your plasma to warm-up say 30 to 45 minutes with moving or action content,this will greatly reduce even the formation of mild I.R


love,

kris.


----------



## phonciplebone

Howdy,


I purchased a Panasonic TCP50GT25 back in April. First thing upon turning on the tv, I lowered all the settings. I put it into THX mode for all viewing. I varied my viewing between all different types of aspect ratios and gaming for the first month and a half. I got well past the 100-200 hours when I noticed significant image retention from 4:3 bars.


After a week or so of watching only 1.78 content, the bars are almost completely gone. They are so faint, and I have to look for them to see them.


The problem now is that I can notice the logo from Pandora in the top left corner. I never played Pandora for more than 30-40 minutes at a time, and it had the built in screen saver where the image started to rotate around the screen. When I used Pandora originally, I did not know its default setting was GAME mode, which had the contrast at 80. That has since been fixed. However, it has been over a week since I used Pandora, and can still see the IR of the logo.


Using Netflix or even the menu on my xbox for only a minute or two keeps an IR in the same area of the text.


Am I screwed, or is this just extreme IR that will take a long time to go away? I am varying my content and watching probably about 85% full screen stuff. THX settings are still enabled. I run the screen wipe a few times a day. I leave static going on the screen for a long time to force it out, but yet it stays.


Is there something else I can do to speed up losing the IR. Am I doing worse damage by using static and the white bar wipe?


Help. I am VERY paranoid of ruining the new set with something that warranty will not cover. (Not to mention the ONE stuck red pixel near the top of the screen.)


----------



## CalWldLif




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phonciplebone* /forum/post/20650341
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> 
> I purchased a Panasonic TCP50GT25 back in April. First thing upon turning on the tv, I lowered all the settings. I put it into THX mode for all viewing. I varied my viewing between all different types of aspect ratios and gaming for the first month and a half. I got well past the 100-200 hours when I noticed significant image retention from 4:3 bars.
> 
> 
> After a week or so of watching only 1.78 content, the bars are almost completely gone. They are so faint, and I have to look for them to see them.
> 
> 
> The problem now is that I can notice the logo from Pandora in the top left corner. I never played Pandora for more than 30-40 minutes at a time, and it had the built in screen saver where the image started to rotate around the screen. When I used Pandora originally, I did not know its default setting was GAME mode, which had the contrast at 80. That has since been fixed. However, it has been over a week since I used Pandora, and can still see the IR of the logo.
> 
> 
> Using Netflix or even the menu on my xbox for only a minute or two keeps an IR in the same area of the text.
> 
> 
> Am I screwed, or is this just extreme IR that will take a long time to go away? I am varying my content and watching probably about 85% full screen stuff. THX settings are still enabled. I run the screen wipe a few times a day. I leave static going on the screen for a long time to force it out, but yet it stays.
> 
> 
> Is there something else I can do to speed up losing the IR. Am I doing worse damage by using static and the white bar wipe?
> 
> 
> Help. I am VERY paranoid of ruining the new set with something that warranty will not cover. (Not to mention the ONE stuck red pixel near the top of the screen.)



THX mode gives me IR.

Even using low contrast and brightness settings.

Even after 400hrs, THX

makes IR.

I use custom unless

I watch BD or full HD with no logos.


----------



## phonciplebone

I just turned down the sharpness and it fixed the clarity of the Pandora logo. The xbox menu stuff seems to be gone, as expected. The IR was probably only there for a few minutes. But Pandora remains.


I have an old AVIA disc that I used on my old RPTV for calibration, but need to get something more recent before I get into the nitty gritty. But it does seem that the THX settings are rather popular for quick and easy settings. I just need to turn the sharpness down and see how that affects things.


----------



## JasonMK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phonciplebone* /forum/post/20650469
> 
> 
> ... But it does seem that the THX settings are rather popular for quick and easy settings. I just need to turn the sharpness down and see how that affects things.



I had read that the THX settings are not adjustable? Did I read wrong or misunderstand your post? (still waiting for delivery on my 50GT30).


----------



## phonciplebone

You can adjust much of it, but not the pro settings. I recently turned the sharpness down on the THX settings, from 75 down to 20.


Funny enough, the Pandora logo is still visible but slowly receding, but now I can make out the station names and faint outlines of the previous songs on the screen. BUT only when I have a solid color (usually green or white) on the screen, and if I am looking for it.


I know I am being OCD about it. I should just use the TV like normal, as the IR should go away. It will probably just take a while. Right?


----------



## madkaw

Quote:

Originally Posted by *phonciplebone* 
You can adjust much of it, but not the pro settings. I recently turned the sharpness down on the THX settings, from 75 down to 20.


Funny enough, the Pandora logo is still visible but slowly receding, but now I can make out the station names and faint outlines of the previous songs on the screen. BUT only when I have a solid color (usually green or white) on the screen, and if I am looking for it.


I know I am being OCD about it. I should just use the TV like normal, as the IR should go away. It will probably just take a while. Right?
It should go away over time, I have seen very few sets that had true burn in and did not go away. 15 to 20 is a good point for sharpness for these sets.


----------



## 80sGuy

I had a similar problem that took over two months for it to go away. It's called Heavy Image-Retention.


My settings in THX Mode:

Contrast: 56

Brightness: 55

Color: 49

Sharpness: 11

Tint: 0


----------



## wrstdude

So is THX the culprit?


I bought my VT20 mid/early March and watched nothing but HBO HD till April. Got HEAVY IR from The Today Show shortly after (my wife's favorite morning show). Now, I noticed I'm getting IR from watching something for only a short period of time-it's like it's getting worse. I watched about an hour and a half of Field of Dreams on Encore and I could see the logo on white scenes after I switched the channel. There was a local tv show logo in the bottom left corner after 15 MINUTES of watching it. I know, because I never watch that channel.


I can still see today.com on my screen on white screens and we haven't watched it since I noticed. Is there any recourse for IR? Can I take it back to Best Buy? Will Panasonic stand behind their product? I haven't even started on the floating blacks that are annoying either.


It's even more frustrating because I have an awesome 42" Panny plasma in the bedroom that was my first plasma (purchased in '07) and it's still going strong w/ no problems.


/whinypoopypantsrant


----------



## dtweedy

I'm going to purchase a Panasonic P55ST30 soon. After reading all the break-in / slideshow threads, it seems safe to say that while it couldn't hurt, it probably isn't necessary if you are careful with your viewing for a while.


However, I have five other people in the house of various ages, and I can't guarantee their being "careful" with the TV. My wife for one would not like to hear about how she can't just watch whatever she wants to watch, like she can now on our old CRT. And some of my family won't be bothered to learn how to zoom the picture or anything, so there would probably be lots of 4:3 material viewing with black bars on the sides, for instance. Given that, I think I'd better do the 100 hour high-contrast slideshow. Agreed?


My question: I assume that these sets are not so delicate that I couldn't, right out of the box, watch a DVD or a Blu-Ray in non-safe mode--that is, fiddle with the settings to get the best PQ and show off the set a bit before I lock it down for 100 hours. I'm talking about a few hours of experimenting: watching parts of a few DVDs to see how they look, maybe 15 minutes of gaming, no static image (including black bars) for more than a half hour or so. Would I STILL need to lower the contrast and brightness and be careful, or could I just live it up for a few hours and then get serious with the slideshow? I'm going to leave the old set up and running in the living room while I break in the plasma elsewhere.


----------



## Grey_Fox719

Hey everyone, first off you all have been GREAT on these pages helping me with my issues, but I have one final (maybe) question. Since I got hosed into buying the floor display Panasonic G25 (50 inch) and I know for a fact it was never broken in properly (in fact I am sure they took her out of the box and put her in "torch" mode) what should I look out for? shes got almost 1,500 hours on her, and I use the TV mostly (as in 80%-90%) for gaming. MOST video games have a static status icon somewhere on the screen (only exception so far is Crysis 2 I've found) and alot of the posts I read say they have little to no IR issues, yet it seems that almost every game I play with a lifebar or whatnot is leaving me with some stubborn IR that can take days to fade. In fact I STILL have the faintest outline of "KILLED" in the bottom right from the "Total zombies zilled" counter from the 2 hour session with dead rising 2 a few months ago. I use D-Nice's THX settings and service menu offsets, and these settings for when playing games http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1343033 . I have tried reducing contrast and brightness, turning super white off on my PS3, and no-matter what,if it has a static status icon or lifebar or whatnot I'll get some IR. I am starting to fear one of these days I'll be playing for a few hours and get a burnt-in image. Also, even with contrast and brightness set to max, and running a few times in a row the scrolling bar is of little to no help. Is there a repair I can have performed to start from scratch and break it in right? Picture quality looks great during blu-ray watching (some "noise" but I sit maybe 6-8 feet from the set) I am stationed in Okinawa, Japan right now and we have a Panasonic rep on island that can do repairs.


----------



## JasonMK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtweedy* /forum/post/20699067
> 
> 
> I'm going to purchase a Panasonic P55ST30 soon. After reading all the break-in / slideshow threads, it seems safe to say that while it couldn't hurt, it probably isn't necessary if you are careful with your viewing for a while.



So after weeks of reading, posting, researching, I finally have a grasp of this and can say that I believe you (like many of us) have a slight misunderstanding of the purpose of the "slides". Whether or not they work is another question, but they in no way prevent burn in. So "being careful" is a good idea whether or not (really, regardless of) you run the slides.


The slides just help to break in the colors more uniformly. That way, 1,000 & 10,000 hours later the colors are more consistent. The slides have nothing to do with IR or burn in now or later. Hope that clarifies it for some.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JasonMK* /forum/post/20701781
> 
> 
> So after weeks of reading, posting, researching, I finally have a grasp of this and can say that I believe you (like many of us) have a slight misunderstanding of the purpose of the "slides". Whether or not they work is another question, but they in no way prevent burn in. So "being careful" is a good idea whether or not (really, regardless of) you run the slides.
> 
> 
> The slides just help to break in the colors more uniformly. That way, 1,000 & 10,000 hours later the colors are more consistent. The slides have nothing to do with IR or burn in now or later. Hope that clarifies it for some.


_Well Said !
_


----------



## dtweedy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JasonMK* 
The slides just help to break in the colors more uniformly. That way, 1,000 & 10,000 hours later the colors are more consistent. The slides have nothing to do with IR or burn in now or later. Hope that clarifies it for some.
Thanks, that makes sense. I was sloppy to imply that you had to run slides to "break in" a plasma for 100 hours. So, the slides are for uniform aging (and possibly to then be able to use D-Nice's settings)--and not universally accepted as necessary. I figured since I've waited this long to get an HDTV I could wait 100 hours more to enjoy it, so long as there might be some real benefit.


But there is a consensus that you should be especially careful for 100 - 200 hours anyway, right, to help avoid IR? Whether or not you use slides? So my using the slideshow for 100 hours would be sort of killing two birds with one stone. Not that I'd ever let my kids leave a game paused overnight or anything. But I'd feel safer locking it down for that period rather than trust my household to go easy for a while.


If that's all correct, I still have my question: one or two hours of mixed viewing with a brand new ST30 isn't going to hurt anything, right? Even if I'm not especially cautious? After that I'd start up the 100 hour slideshow (for color break-in purposes!), which would surely wash away any light IR anyway. Is that right, or am I still confused?


----------



## JLennerth

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WilliamR* 
This thread is for all discussion related to burn in, IR, and break in questions/concerns/info on flat panel TVs. Please post all discussions on this topic in this thread.


With today's new technologies (2007 and beyond) burn in is nearly non-existence if users use common sense. While still possible, it is highly unlikely if common care is used. A lot of newer TV's (i.e. Pioneer's 8th gen sets) have new technologies that help to also prevent IR. Combined with break in and common care/use, IR can be dramatically reduced if not even eliminated completely.


This thread is for the Plasma and LCD Flat Panel Displays Forum: there is a SEPARATE thread for RPTV 


Download Break In DVD (SVCD) 


Another good thread for information regarding break-in. Thread is in the Panny section but applies to all plasma's.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14472276
I bought the break-in slides DVD from AVSFORUM. Can I use this break-in disc w/D-Nice's prep settings?


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dtweedy* 
....But there is a consensus that you should be especially careful for 100 - 200 hours anyway, right, to help avoid IR?...


...Is that right, or am I still confused?
The break-in slides are not for preventing or to eliminate IR, it only supposed to help 'aged' the NEW phosphors evenly on your set so that any chances of getting burn-ins in the future are reduced. You will still get IR no matter what so long as you owned your plasma, or any other plasma, but it should go away shortly.


----------



## Guibs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20731442
> 
> 
> The break-in slides are not for preventing or to eliminate IR, it only supposed to help 'aged' the NEW phosphors evenly on your set so that any chances of getting burn-ins in the future are reduced. You will still get IR no matter what so long as you owned your plasma, or any other plasma, but it should go away shortly.



Not really.


The slides are to age the phospors evenly so that the real colors/Pq of the set gets togheter quickly. It doesn't have anything to do with IR. That's why people usually wait the 100/150hours mark to get their TV calibrated because the TV brightness and color fluctuate too much before that time.


----------



## JLennerth

I bought the break-in DVD from this site. Is there an automatic loop on the DVD(so it will play all night long looping so the patterns don't end) or do I need to change a setting on the PS3 for repeat playback?


----------



## Wanderlai

Anyone just purchased the dvd via paypal? I dont have Nero to burn the disc.


----------



## tboy2000

I have not done any break in process whatsoever. No leaving tv to run for ages, no special dvds. I have just used the tv as normal and just enjoyed it. So far all is good and no IR (touch wood). Had tv for 3 weeks so far. My tv is a PS51D6900.


----------



## shadyridr

Whats the best way to get rid of stubborn IR? I got the damn YES logo peeking thru and having been able to get rid of it. Im going on vacation soon and was thinking about leaving the TV on HBO in Vivid for a week while Im away. Will that do the trick?


----------



## JasonMK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shadyridr* /forum/post/20740647
> 
> 
> Whats the best way to get rid of stubborn IR? I got the damn YES logo peeking thru and having been able to get rid of it. Im going on vacation soon and was thinking about leaving the TV on HBO in Vivid for a week while Im away. Will that do the trick?



I would absolutely recommend that you NOT do that. Who knows what you'll end up getting stuck on your screen that way. Doesn't your tv have an anti-image retention scrolling bar that you can activate?


----------



## yzarc0g

1000 hours seems like an awful long time, thats 41 days!

Anyone have a recommendation on being able to watch TV/Play games while breaking in? My concern is I use a PC with the TV and that is a pretty static image (desktop). Is the break in to avoid image burn in? Is there a minimum break in required so that this does not happen? Does the break in "strengthen color"? Just picking up the VT30 tonight and I want to treat it well. Looking for a caucious recommendation here..


Thanks a bunch.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *yzarc0g* 
1000 hours seems like an awful long time, thats 41 days!


...Looking for a caucious recommendation here..


Thanks a bunch.
Yup, and that's 41 days NON-STOP! I think this is a bit excessive. Just watch regular tv as you go along. Zoom everything to full screen on SD and try avoiding static logos like ESPN on HD, and do not double your plasma as a computer monitor!


----------



## yzarc0g

Don't double it during break in, or ever? What if I have "turn off screen after 15 minutes" set on the PC?

I don't see a problem with only turning it on when I want to watch streaming content full screen, post break-in. Right?


----------



## Jackelope

Hi, all. I just bought my first Plasma







- an LG 42PW350. When I bring up the TV menu (even for a minute) it takes ~20 minutes of colorwashing (AKA the break-in DVD) before the image is completely gone. Is this normal? I was shocked to see it because I'm being so careful and only used the menu briefly. Again, is it normal?


Also, I don't see any anti-burn-in settings in the menu or manual. Do LG's have them?


Thanks!


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yzarc0g* /forum/post/20752938
> 
> 
> Don't double it during break in, or ever? What if I have "turn off screen after 15 minutes" set on the PC?
> 
> I don't see a problem with only turning it on when I want to watch streaming content full screen, post break-in. Right?



I have a friend that has an older 42" plasma/720P (cir. 2006) and he uses it frequently as a computer monitor since day one. He hangs it up on the wall and higher than usual -- like most folks do above a fireplace -- and I don't understand this concept! When I asked him about image-retentions or burn-ins he said he haven't noticed any of the sort, but I can clearly see shadows and all kinds of garbage retained during scenes with light backgrounds. He's not very good at making out these kinds of things, and I'm not sure how severe it is at this stage. I don't want to say anything more to make home feel bad since he loved the TV more than his wife.


Here's my take:

Seriously, I'd rather enjoy a monitor that is 1.5ft distance from my face (even though it is only 17") rather than watching a 42"-50" monitor that is 10'-15ft away, much less having one that was hung high up on the wall! But hey, if it suits you; by all means do so.


----------



## Melville

I have been hounding Samsung about the fact that they have Web Browsers in more of their LED TVs than Plasma TVs. I recently bought a PN51D6900, with which I am very happy. There first response was ludicrous, and I won't take the time to repeat it now. After a less than measured response to that, they replied that plasma TVs have more IR issues than LED, and that is the reason. Does this make sense?


----------



## ETERNIA FOREVER

Hey guys i will be receiving my 1st plasma tomorrow ( the 50 inch st30 ) and have been researching various forums and websites bout proper break in for preparing your tv for future use and they normally all say to reduce brightness and contrast to half for 100 too 200 hundred hours however, i see that d nice is saying on a different site that apparently is not to be mentioned for some reason, brightness at 50 However Contrast att 100, now obviously d nice knows what he is talking bout but i am just a bit confused bout the contrast at 100, will someone kindly explain this to me ??



Thanks


----------



## 80sGuy

^^I have my Brightness set to 54 and Contrast at 55, anything higher will easily create image-retentions, which will eventually disappears anyway but I'd rather have it this way (not to retain any) than having to wait for it to go away. I've had my G25 for more than 7 months now and I still go by my own set of rules -- works great to this day.


----------



## ETERNIA FOREVER

Thanks for your reply and also now that i am looking for channels that doo not have a logo at the corner it is seeming that all thee hd channels that i am normally watching have the channel logo inn one of the corners,


Can someone name a few channels without that logo that i can go to for breaking in my plasma



Thanks


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ETERNIA FOREVER* /forum/post/20754089
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply and also now that i am looking for channels that doo not have a logo at the corner it is seeming that all thee hd channels that i am normally watching have the channel logo inn one of the corners,
> 
> 
> Can someone name a few channels without that logo that i can go to for breaking in my plasma
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks



HBO is the only channel that I know of that never uses a static logo!


----------



## Boldhead

Hi guys,


I read some story's here about heavy IR of channel logo's. Did anyone actually got rid of? I got some heavy IR of 2 dutch channel logo's (out of the box settings, too high contrast for some 3 or 4 weeks).

Mine has faded alot, but still clearly visible when a solid light background is displayed. It now doesnt appear to fade anymore, or so little that it is barely noticeble. I tried the screenwasher last night for a couple of hour but this seems to worsen it a bit. Hope that it will fade by time, but I guess it will take a long time.... :-(


----------



## shadyridr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boldhead* /forum/post/20773195
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I read some story's here about heavy IR of channel logo's. Did anyone actually got rid of? I got some heavy IR of 2 dutch channel logo's (out of the box settings, too high contrast for some 3 or 4 weeks).
> 
> Mine has faded alot, but still clearly visible when a solid light background is displayed. It now doesnt appear to fade anymore, or so little that it is barely noticeble. I tried the screenwasher last night for a couple of hour but this seems to worsen it a bit. Hope that it will fade by time, but I guess it will take a long time.... :-(



I have the same thing with the YES logo. It wont go away. Ive given up trying to get rid of it


----------



## Homebrew101

I've read many posts where people post the number of hours on their new Samsung plasmas


I assume they are estimating this but if not, is there a way to tell from the set itself?


----------



## r2crd

Well, I'm at 1,200 hours after my IR was detected and I can only say that during that time I have learned to live with the problem.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boldhead* /forum/post/20773195
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I read some story's here about heavy IR of channel logo's. Did anyone actually got rid of? I got some heavy IR of 2 dutch channel logo's (out of the box settings, too high contrast for some 3 or 4 weeks).
> 
> Mine has faded alot, but still clearly visible when a solid light background is displayed. It now doesnt appear to fade anymore, or so little that it is barely noticeble. I tried the screenwasher last night for a couple of hour but this seems to worsen it a bit. Hope that it will fade by time, but I guess it will take a long time.... :-(


----------



## R3ddlight

First time with plasma, should of stick with LCD. These ir are making me nervous. I want to crank up my cell light n contras when playing xbox, but these thread are scaring me away. What your best solution for games? Just got my tv today, 150 so hrs to go? Any1 got problem with there pn64d8000 ir yet.


----------



## JasonMK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2crd* /forum/post/20799414
> 
> 
> Well, I'm at 1,200 hours after my IR was detected and I can only say that during that time I have learned to live with the problem.



If it has been 1,200 since the IR started wouldn't that make it more burn-in, or does the IR change?


----------



## 80sGuy

Well, I had heavy IR from setting up my receiver and the logo retained on my screen for more than two months. My TV was pretty new and with approximately 25hrs clocked in at the time.

There are a couple of things you can do to avoid this problem (or possibly eliminate the current problem):


1.) Turned brightness and contrast down between 51-52 (or 50%)

2.) Avoid channels with bright logos for the time being, or tune in less.


The key is to not repeat the culprit, if you think that particular channel is causing IR, then lessen your time with it.

Now, every time when I do a setup, I customized one of the screen settings on my plasma to very low contrast/brightness from the remote and use it whenever I'm messing with my receiver. It helped, and preventing its GUI screen from getting any potential IR. Today, my screen is as perfect as new, there are no more IR blemishes behind a white screen or fast panning-screen. Having the brightness and contrast down is the main solution!


----------



## R3ddlight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I had heavy IR from setting up my receiver and the logo retained on my screen for more than two months. My TV was pretty new and with approximately 25hrs clocked in at the time.
> 
> There are a couple of things you can do to avoid this problem (or possibly eliminate the current problem):
> 
> 
> 1.) Turned brightness and contrast down between 51-52 (or 50%)
> 
> 2.) Avoid channels with bright logos for the time being, or tune in less.
> 
> 
> The key is to not repeat the culprit, if you think that particular channel is causing IR, then lessen your time with it.
> 
> Now, every time when I do a setup, I customized one of the screen settings on my plasma to very low contrast/brightness from the remote and use it whenever I'm messing with my receiver. It helped, and preventing its GUI screen from getting any potential IR. Today, my screen is as perfect as new, there are no more IR blemishes behind a white screen or fast panning-screen. Having the brightness and contrast down is the main solution!



Your prob right on that part, but if contras is that low, we wont be able to enjoy picture quality, because it so dark.


----------



## tboy2000

You know it sucks we can't just enjoy the TV with any settings we choose. To have to turn down brightness, contrast, cell light, sharpness etc is just ridiculous. It is stupid. Thinking I should have probably got an led TV instead and not worry about all this crap. This is my first ever plasma.


----------



## 80sGuy

Mine is set at 54 Brightness and 55 Contrast and it is perfect, not low at all and pretty bright and vibrant. Color temp is also set at Warm2.


----------



## R3ddlight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tboy2000* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know it sucks we can't just enjoy the TV with any settings we choose. To have to turn down brightness, contrast, cell light, sharpness etc is just ridiculous. It is stupid. Thinking I should have probably got an led TV instead and not worry about all this crap. This is my first ever plasma.



I'm right in there with you bro. I use to love my led LCD before start seeing cloud patch. Bb told me, oh burn in are in the past. I was like, ok, stress free. But whatever that bb employee didn't no what he was talking about. My first plasma too, and it feel like I'm taking care of a "baby". Lol.. No offense but that how i feel with my plasma. When i spend per $35000 on it. Dam it.


----------



## Puffyjello

Hi All,


I just got myself a 46 Panasonic G25. From what I read the previous threads, panel like that doesn't need to run the burn-in DVD at all. Is that correct?


Thanks for the help!


----------



## Boldhead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shadyridr* /forum/post/20774105
> 
> 
> I have the same thing with the YES logo. It wont go away. Ive given up trying to get rid of it



How long have you got it by now?

Mine I noticed some 3 weeks ago by now, but it got a lot better the last week. If it's keeps on improving like this I think it will be gone in another 3 or 4 weeks...


----------



## shadyridr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boldhead* /forum/post/20805846
> 
> 
> How long have you got it by now?
> 
> Mine I noticed some 3 weeks ago by now, but it got a lot better the last week. If it's keeps on improving like this I think it will be gone in another 3 or 4 weeks...



Have had it for about a month now. My big problem is its hard for it to go away since Im always watching Yankee games. I try changing channel and zooming sometimes.


----------



## fatal0e

I've got a panny G25, bought in January. While the TV was new I had set a wake up timer in the morning, I would normally turn it off after 20 minutes or so. Then I worked overnight a few times and the TV had turned on with the timer and then turned off with the 90 minute timer. I have a burned in image of the old science channel logo (orange square.) I've been using the screen wipe a little more frequently, and displaying zoomed in channels with bright settings for a few hours here and there. The logo has started to fade, but I can still it on bright solid colors in the corner.


I'm hoping the logo will completely lift so it will stop driving me crazy, but I can see the logo everytime I use the screen wipe, it's plain as day when the white bar passes over it.


I have the pixel orbiter set to periodic 1 min, I even have the settings pretty low for the directv input, it's pretty dark in the room I have the TV. It's also not a very big room so I sit a little closer to it than I should. Which is probably why I notice the IR on black screens.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^It will disappear so long as you stop what you're doing, but might take weeks, if not months. Watch regular TV and let it work its own magic. I know because I 'had' a logo retained on my screen for more than two months!


----------



## car421

OK, picked up my P50S30 today and have some questions about breaking in the set.


Is it really necessary and if it is could I just watch full screen movies to break it in?

Also should I not adjust any of the picture settings till after the break-in period?

I really wanted to watch some sports on it but the burn-in concerns me


----------



## R3ddlight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *car421* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, picked up my P50S30 today and have some questions about breaking in the set.
> 
> 
> Is it really necessary and if it is could I just watch full screen movies to break it in?
> 
> Also should I not adjust any of the picture settings till after the break-in period?
> 
> I really wanted to watch some sports on it but the burn-in concerns me



A lot of people recommend a lot of things. But as for me, don't touch any setting until tell the first hrs according to some isf forum I read. Avoid any black bar on top or on the side. I use this break in dvd slide which works pretty good. Fullscreen should be fine if contrast and cell light is low. But I recommend putting as much hrs as possible, cause NFL is around the corner.


----------



## WuGgaRoO

hmm.. from reading the first post... if i leave the contrast to 100 and the brightness to 100.. and using the break in cd.. would the break in process go quicker? (of course this will only be set when i can monitor it throughout the day)


thanks!


----------



## chandra.hp

Can anyone help me out? I'm trying to download the Evangelo2's USB/SD card files, but the link is dead! Anyone have another link? Checked Google and I get pointed to the same link from all sources.


Edit:

Never mind. The link works now! Strange!


----------



## chandra.hp

So I've done some research on my own and I see Panasonic use to recommend a 100 hour break in period. But is there any empirical data that backs/justifies the 100 hour break in period? Has any organization/institution took the effort to buy multiple TVs and have them go through a series of content and determine if IR/BI is more prevalent in sets that did NOT go through the break in process?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chandra.hp* /forum/post/20885268
> 
> 
> So I've done some research on my own and I see Panasonic use to recommend a 100 hour break in period. But is there any empirical data that backs/justifies the 100 hour break in period? Has any organization/institution took the effort to buy multiple TVs and have them go through a series of content and determine if IR/BI is more prevalent in sets that did NOT go through the break in process?



Hi,


my recommendation will be use your tv with full screen content and without any channel logos for the first 6 months.And do not run your plasma tv when no one is around it.In my case i tried to use the break-in slides.And on day one itself i had mild pink,yellow & green patches(I.R) here and there.From the following day i started watching BD movies just 6hours a day.And when the content had black bars at the top & bottom,i used the zoom one mode which is available in my panasonic model.


Now my tv has crossed that 100hr mark and i have allowed my wife to see her soaps & serials that too having channel logos.I do not get any I.R.By the way she keeps changing tv channels every 30 to 40 minutes.And inbetween serials they put lots of adds during that period their is no channel logos.


And another thing that i have noticed is that as working hours of the plasma increases one could clearly notice vivid improvement in contrast & color quality.i.e as they age its picture quality increases,you will have to once again increase its brightness and other corresponding settings based on your personal viewing taste.


love,

kris.


----------



## bogart219

If we could only get those networks to stop displaying those stupid ash logo's we wouldn't have to worry about IR!


----------



## chandra.hp

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kris achar* 
Hi,


my recommendation will be use your tv with full screen content and without any channel logos for the first 6 months.And do not run your plasma tv when no one is around it.In my case i tried to use the break-in slides.And on day one itself i had mild pink,yellow & green patches(I.R) here and there.From the following day i started watching BD movies just 6hours a day.And when the content had black bars at the top & bottom,i used the zoom one mode which is available in my panasonic model.


Now my tv has crossed that 100hr mark and i have allowed my wife to see her soaps & serials that too having channel logos.I do not get any I.R.By the way she keeps changing tv channels every 30 to 40 minutes.And inbetween serials they put lots of adds during that period their is no channel logos.


And another thing that i have noticed is that as working hours of the plasma increases one could clearly notice vivid improvement in contrast & color quality.i.e as they age its picture quality increases,you will have to once again increase its brightness and other corresponding settings based on your personal viewing taste.


love,

kris.
Noted. And that is what Panasonic is still currently recommending from various sources around the net. I'll still do the slides, but I'm certainly NOT going to do it for 4 days straight! Maybe one day or two days.


I'm due to receive my 50GT30 this Friday and my family would kill me if I tell them they can't use the brand new high end TV for the living room till Tuesday (completely missing the long weekend). Everyone is dying to see Avatar in 3D!


----------



## speed3driver

After about 6 months of ownership my Samsung PN58C8000 got burn in from the Cartoon Network HD channel. I ran break in slides for days and nights on end, probably close to 100 hours, I never ran in "torch mode" I actually used the optimal settings that CNET posted which kept the brightness,contrast, etc down. I also didnt allow any 4:3 content on my tv. My guess is that the babysitter I had left it on CN all freakin day, but even then, there are commercials like crazy on that channel so the indicator goes away and is filled with images, so the burn in shouldnt have happened. I filled a service request out on samsung.com, and the repair man told me that when the new panel arrived, they would be out to install. Well he came out about 4 days later, and looked at my panel, took pictures and said that he would have to get back to me because he didnt think samsung would authorize the repair. I got a call the next day saying that Samsung is authorizing the repair, so I am getting a new Panel. Im just gonna crank everything down, way down, and then only crank things up for my blu ray movies. I also locked cartoon network on my Dish DVR and contacted Cartoon Network about what happened and told them that I am personally boycotting their channel until they address their static logo.


----------



## p_sousa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tboy2000* /forum/post/20804430
> 
> 
> You know it sucks we can't just enjoy the TV with any settings we choose. To have to turn down brightness, contrast, cell light, sharpness etc is just ridiculous. It is stupid. Thinking I should have probably got an led TV instead and not worry about all this crap. This is my first ever plasma.



lool. what dramatic. i dont know what plasma model you have but i have a panasonic G20 and i never did the 100hours precautions...since first hour i calibrated like i want. i play lot of uncharted2 and never get IR the only time i had a litle IR was when i was see a movie put pause and go eat something...this was like 15m and with a white image. the IR after 5m almost dissapear and after 15m completed dissapear.


burn in is almost impossible to happen on panasonic plasma since 2009 and from my experience IR dont happen very easy.

Samsung plasma is a diferrent story...last year samsung plasma still have burn in and lot of cases with IR, but this year i dont know.


others plasmas was even worse than Samsung so serious avoid them.


----------



## p_sousa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chandra.hp* /forum/post/20885268
> 
> 
> So I've done some research on my own and I see Panasonic use to recommend a 100 hour break in period. But is there any empirical data that backs/justifies the 100 hour break in period? Has any organization/institution took the effort to buy multiple TVs and have them go through a series of content and determine if IR/BI is more prevalent in sets that did NOT go through the break in process?



just dont use high contrast before reach 100hours (i keep asking me why someone will use high contrast settings) and just enjoy the tv.

forget the rest...


----------



## p_sousa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chandra.hp* /forum/post/20889521
> 
> 
> Noted. And that is what Panasonic is still currently recommending from various sources around the net. I'll still do the slides, but I'm certainly NOT going to do it for 4 days straight! Maybe one day or two days.
> 
> 
> I'm due to receive my 50GT30 this Friday and my family would kill me if I tell them they can't use the brand new high end TV for the living room till Tuesday (completely missing the long weekend). Everyone is dying to see Avatar in 3D!



dont worry to much. you have a Panasonic plasma so just dont put contrast/brightness high in first 100 hours the rest forget.

you can see 2.35:1 content (with horizontal black bars) and channel with sticky logos.


just need to change channel every 2-3hours just as a caution measure


----------



## p_sousa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *car421* /forum/post/20818336
> 
> 
> OK, picked up my P50S30 today and have some questions about breaking in the set.
> 
> 
> Is it really necessary and if it is could I just watch full screen movies to break it in?
> 
> Also should I not adjust any of the picture settings till after the break-in period?
> 
> I really wanted to watch some sports on it but the burn-in concerns me




sure... you can whatch full screen movies or any kind of stuff to break in.

before 100hours just dont use high contrast/brightness (but this will put a crap IQ IMO so dont know why people want settings with high brigh and high contrast unless the living room is very very ligh)


for the last question, as i say you can see all kind of stuff.....sticky logos and black bars arent really a problem for panasonic plasmas but for a cautions measure you can try skip them for first 100hours, after this time forget that and simple enjoy tv.


IR and burn in is the major factor why i personal recommend panasonic to samsung .LG plasma are not even near panasonic/samsung IQ level so i never recommend them.


----------



## nscarpino

Hey all, this is my first post on this forum. I'm hoping someone can help with a problem I'm having.


I bought a new Panasonic vt30 when they came out (about two months ago) and last weekend after playing Portal 2 and watching Netflix on my xbox360 for about 4 hours (in THX mode) I started to notice two white spots down the center of my screen. I've played a number of games since I got the TV and have never had any problems until now. The spots are only really visible when the image goes to either an all white screen or a lighter gradient but they are driving me crazy. Is this burn in/IR or something else? If so, is there anything that can be done aside from running the set for a long period of time? I've run the anti image retention scroll bars a number of times but it doesn't seem to be helping.


Any info would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## thesalesman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chandra.hp* 
Noted. And that is what Panasonic is still currently recommending from various sources around the net. I'll still do the slides, but I'm certainly NOT going to do it for 4 days straight! Maybe one day or two days.


I'm due to receive my 50GT30 this Friday and my family would kill me if I tell them they can't use the brand new high end TV for the living room till Tuesday (completely missing the long weekend). Everyone is dying to see Avatar in 3D!
Congrats on your purchase. I just got my 50GT30 in on Tuesday. You can just run the slides between usage, no need to stop the family fun. I've used the zoom function on all letterbox and 4:3 ratios. Haven't had an issue with logos as I really don't watch television, just movies. All other times I'm running slides. It's pretty much has been on for four days nonstop. Trying to get it ready for gaming and get those first 100-200 hours out of the way.


----------



## 80sGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nscarpino* 
Hey all, this is my first post on this forum. I'm hoping someone can help with a problem I'm having.


I bought a new Panasonic vt30 when they came out (about two months ago) and last weekend after playing Portal 2 and watching Netflix on my xbox360 for about 4 hours (in THX mode) I started to notice two white spots down the center of my screen. I've played a number of games since I got the TV and have never had any problems until now. The spots are only really visible when the image goes to either an all white screen or a lighter gradient but they are driving me crazy. Is this burn in/IR or something else? If so, is there anything that can be done aside from running the set for a long period of time? I've run the anti image retention scroll bars a number of times but it doesn't seem to be helping.


Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Heavy image retention. It can lead to burn-in if you don't stop whatever that causes it (playing games). Welcome to the wonderful world of Plasma -- where you gain some, but also loses some.


----------



## nscarpino

The thing I can't figure out is what actually caused the burn in. I looked at the game again after I noticed the spots and there's absolutely nothing in the HUD or on the display that stays in those areas. Literally, there's nothing that could have stayed on screen long enough to cause burn in. I'm going to try running an anti burn in DVD for a while and see if that helps. If not, I'll have put in the call to Panasonic and get a repair guy out to look at it.


----------



## Beelzebub1666

Hello everyone, for the past 2 weeks all I've done is nothing but try to read as much of the forums as i can. maybe that's why I'm going a little nuts here. I got my PN59D8000 2 weeks ago and I've been freaking out about burn-in & IR, now to the point that im considering exchanged it for the UN series, I have burned the break in dvd with all the solid colors and have run it for a few hours here and there, my wife watches shows with black bars on the side, and i do a fair amount of gaming. The first weekend alone i was so excite to have the tv i forgot about this and i played a few hours of Battlefield right after i could see some signs of IR so i was upset then after a night of my wife watching her shows i saw it again with a channel logo, now both of the IR are gone but im still tryiing to decide if i made the right choice. I will do gaming on it in the future and my wife will watch shows with black bars on the side. Is this something i should be worry about ? will this be something i shouldn't be to concern about after the first 100 like so many people here say ? and i would like to hear from people that own this T.V. and have similar activities with it like i do ? and if they have had any problems with burn-in or IR? Thank You for any reply's


----------



## 80sGuy

^^IR will ALWAYS be there so long as you owned your set, that's just the nature of plasma tv, it is temporary and washes out shortly while viewing something else (in full screen mode perhaps). Burn-In CAN still occur if you keep on playing games in torch mode for the long run. If you still believe the hype that "burn-ins are a thing of the past", then go ahead, feel free! The very same people that raved and raved about the statement comes back here a few months later (with a new username) and cry about their burned sets.


If you want to save your TV, do the following:

Contrast: 55 (or percent)

Brightness (54 (or percent)

Set all SD channels to 'zoom' mode from your TV remote, NOT from the cable box. This way you minimize the scaling and loss of quality, and at the same time you'll have full-screen mode on all channels, and it won't affect your HD channels, they will remained the same.


Do this for about two-three months and cross your fingers; pray to Jesus, Buddha, Allah or just God and hope that your TV panel will miraculously resurrect back to its original condition. I did it with my Panasonic for two whole months and now it is as good as new! But then I'm not a gamer and doesn't watch stuff in 4:3 format, I did it because I acquired a nasty burn-in (or heavy image-retention) from my home theater receiver's onscreen GUI.


----------



## Tigerriot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beelzebub1666* /forum/post/20909934
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, for the past 2 weeks all I've done is nothing but try to read as much of the forums as i can. maybe that's why I'm going a little nuts here. I got my PN59D8000 2 weeks ago and I've been freaking out about burn-in & IR, now to the point that im considering exchanged it for the UN series, I have burned the break in dvd with all the solid colors and have run it for a few hours here and there, my wife watches shows with black bars on the side, and i do a fair amount of gaming. The first weekend alone i was so excite to have the tv i forgot about this and i played a few hours of Battlefield right after i could see some signs of IR so i was upset then after a night of my wife watching her shows i saw it again with a channel logo, now both of the IR are gone but im still tryiing to decide if i made the right choice. I will do gaming on it in the future and my wife will watch shows with black bars on the side. Is this something i should be worry about ? will this be something i shouldn't be to concern about after the first 100 like so many people here say ? and i would like to hear from people that own this T.V. and have similar activities with it like i do ? and if they have had any problems with burn-in or IR? Thank You for any reply's



From what I've gathered you're going to have to be careful if you intend to use a plasma for a lot of gaming and TV watching.


First, make sure your pixel orbiting is turned on. It shifts the image slightly every few minutes to try and help the pixels from being burned in. Second, if you find yourself only watching certain channels all the time, and you play one particular game all the time, like say Battlefield multiplayer, a plasma might not be the best TV for you. Over the long haul it would be hard to avoid burn in.


Just think of it this way. Anytime a static object is on your plasma screen it is being burned in. Now it may take a hours to make it truly persistent for a while, but it's always happening. So you just need to be aware that you need a mix of things to prevent these things from being burned in permanently. If you're going to play Battlefield online for 3 hours, you might want to make sure that TV is also getting 5 hours of something else the next night. It can't just be 3 hours of the same thing night after night, or you will end up with a problem.


----------



## mojos2385

My PN59D8000 is coming in on Friday what should be the first steps in setting it up ie break-in?

I want to do it right since this is a pretty expensive purchase for me and the wife.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mojos2385* /forum/post/20911818
> 
> 
> My PN59D8000 is coming in on Friday what should be the first steps in setting it up ie break-in?
> 
> I want to do it right since this is a pretty expensive purchase for me and the wife.



Hi,

Congratulations on you purschase of that plasma,wish you many years of happy viewing on it.And only on thing you must take care is to not to worry much but use it gently for the first 200 hrs.Avoid content with black bars,But todays tv's do have a picture fill function or the zoom mode,use it when its needed.

What ever you do with your tv,never leave the tv working when no one is around it.Since if there is a still or pause image more that 2 hours it will create I.R or stains of some particular color.

So i would suggest you to watch BD Movies in zoom 1 mode if need be.and break-in your tv in that fashion than running color slides 24x7 and weakining all its power caps & I.C's.


Wish you all the best.


Love,

kris.


----------



## likemovies

Thank you for this thread. There is no way on earth I'd buy a plasma. It'd worry me to death.


----------



## R3ddlight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *likemovies* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for this thread. There is no way on earth I'd buy a plasma. It'd worry me to death.



Lol..I was in the same boat, but plasma has the better picture. I was worry sick, but after the 150 to 200 hrs. It should be fine. I rather have IR than clouding in my LCD. If ur scare of plasma and have the money go with Sony xbr 929. But high end plasma are cheaper and produce better black level than other led LCD. I have a pn64d8000 and I'm loving it.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *likemovies* /forum/post/20913591
> 
> 
> Thank you for this thread. There is no way on earth I'd buy a plasma. It'd worry me to death.



Hi,


Iam very glad you made your choice,and that you found peace.But your User ID is "likemovies" have you watched latest BD movies in LCD's and if you like that quality then its fine....










love,

kris.


----------



## tubers

Guys, anyone knows where to find a free alternative "Break-In" video that's somewhat "decent"? Or an mp4?


----------



## jober92

Just moved my 4+ yr old Panny TH-42PH9UK to a different location in my house and when I was setting it up, noticed the bottom of the screen has been burned in with image from an NFL game that must have been paused. Kind of surprised I hadn't noticed it before since it couldn't have been from this season (haven't watched much preseason).


I'm already bummed that the TV seems to be on its last legs, and now this image burn-in is persuading me from staying away from Panasonic & plasma in the future.


----------



## tubers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jober92* /forum/post/20926063
> 
> 
> Just moved my 4+ yr old Panny TH-42PH9UK to a different location in my house and when I was setting it up, noticed the bottom of the screen has been burned in with image from an NFL game that must have been paused. Kind of surprised I hadn't noticed it before since it couldn't have been from this season (haven't watched much preseason).
> 
> 
> I'm already bummed that the TV seems to be on its last legs, and now this image burn-in is persuading me from staying away from Panasonic & plasma in the future.



Hmm.. isn't that a little bit of an unfair decision?


That's a 4 year old Plasma.


Then again, LCD's IMO are maintenance free compared to plasmas.


Goodluck


----------



## ChrisPharmD

Oh man... I have to vent.


I got my GT25 this past February. I had to spend valuable time for the first month or two breaking it in... and it was kind of miserable. Welp... the TV had a faulty panel and Panasonic just decided to send me a new TV instead of trying to fix the old one.


So my new GT30 arrived today... Not happy about having to break in another TV... Very not happy about that.


Pretty sexy TV, though, otherwise. Is anything different about the GT30 than the GT25? Does anybody know?


----------



## Matt Stieg

OK I'm a little confused about a certain burn-in issue. For the past 2+ years I've owned an LG LCD but I'm looking for a TV now with better blacks. I always knew plasma had better black levels than LCD but, like many, was worried about burn in. My problem is I'm an old movie buff and probably about half of my TV watching are black and white movies shot in 1.37:1, so I'm going to be doing a LOT of 4:3 watching. Like I said I steered clear of plasma despite the better blacks because I was afraid of the black bars on the sides burning in. From what I understand now, though, it's not so much the black bars burning in as uneven aging of the phosphors? That is, when there are black bars on the sides the phosphors are not being used, thus the phosphors in the middle portion of the screen being used to create the image will age faster than the phosphors on the sides? I know Panasonic has an option to set the black bars to grey, but then wouldn't those grey bars burn in since they're not black?


Also, how effective are the pixel orbiters that many sets have now? Theoretically, if the pixels are being continuously shifted, then shouldn't burn in be a moot point now?


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Matt Stieg* /forum/post/20931056
> 
> 
> OK I'm a little confused about a certain burn-in issue. For the past 2+ years I've owned an LG LCD but I'm looking for a TV now with better blacks. I always knew plasma had better black levels than LCD but, like many, was worried about burn in. My problem is I'm an old movie buff and probably about half of my TV watching are black and white movies shot in 1.37:1, so I'm going to be doing a LOT of 4:3 watching. Like I said I steered clear of plasma despite the better blacks because I was afraid of the black bars on the sides burning in. From what I understand now, though, it's not so much the black bars burning in as uneven aging of the phosphors? That is, when there are black bars on the sides the phosphors are not being used, thus the phosphors in the middle portion of the screen being used to create the image will age faster than the phosphors on the sides? I know Panasonic has an option to set the black bars to grey, but then wouldn't those grey bars burn in since they're not black?
> 
> 
> Also, how effective are the pixel orbiters that many sets have now? Theoretically, if the pixels are being continuously shifted, then shouldn't burn in be a moot point now?





burn in IR is not a moot point! IF you are going to worry about IR , look at the sony or vizio local dimming . they have equal black levels as any high end plasma. Best thing to do , I think, is go look at each tv you are considering several times and Take your time. Make notes if ya like! Remember , you are the one going to be watching it! Regards


----------



## monee

I just bought a panasonic plasma tv. Im using the tv with max zoom, as suggested ,to break in cells. Ill do this for the first 100/150 hours.


My question is, watching the tv with max zoom for the first hours can decrease the quality of the image?.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *monee* /forum/post/20937589
> 
> 
> I just bought a panasonic plasma tv. Im using the tv with max zoom, as suggested ,to break in cells. Ill do this for the first 100/150 hours.
> 
> 
> My question is, watching the tv with max zoom for the first hours can decrease the quality of the image?.



Hi,

Glad to hear you too purchase panasonic plasma,And i feel zoom one is sufficient to remove upper & lower black bars.And yes as you zoom the picture the image pixels size are bound to increase in size there by giving a little blur picture quality but it has no ill effects on your tv panel.

But what i would suggest is watch HD content from BD or DTH HD and to avoid channel logo IR or permenent burn-in try changing channels every 30 to 45 minutes.And also enable all the anti I.R tools if available in your setup options menu.


Happy viewing,


Love,

kris.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *monee* /forum/post/20937589
> 
> 
> I just bought a panasonic plasma tv. Im using the tv with max zoom, as suggested ,to break in cells. Ill do this for the first 100/150 hours.
> 
> 
> My question is, watching the tv with max zoom for the first hours can decrease the quality of the image?.



If you use the remote to 'zoom' supplied by your TV, then you won't lose any picture quality. If you use anything else such as from a cable box or DVD/BD player then you will see a loss of quality because of the scaling. Usually, when you are viewing an SD channel; set it to zoom so you don't have to change it when you switch to HD channels, it will have no affect on hd channels and will automatically zoomed in when you view all SD contents. I have been doing this ever since when I got my set back in Feb.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/20940056
> 
> 
> If you use the remote to 'zoom' supplied by your TV, then you won't lose any picture quality. If you use anything else such as from a cable box or DVD/BD player then you will see a loss of quality because of the scaling. Usually, when you are viewing an SD channel; set it to zoom so you don't have to change it when you switch to HD channels, it will have no affect on hd channels and will automatically zoomed in when you view all SD contents. I have been doing this ever since when I got my set back in Feb.



If you use anything to enlarge, stretch , etc. the picture , you will lose picture quality. It doens't matter how you do it!


----------



## 80sGuy

I agree, but if you use the remote from your (Panasonic) TV, you lose almost nothing. I know because I've tried it with all my remotes from different devices and the panny does a very good job zooming with little to almost zero losses. You can verify it carefully by using each different remotes and see for yourself, you'll find it when using the one from the tv, the pictures looked the same whereas the others such as DVD/BD or cable has a significantly loss of quality when zoomed.


----------



## mojos2385

Okay going to ran the break-in DVD what settings should I use on the Samsung pn59d8000?


edit: Also what settings should I use when gaming on the PS3?


Thanks for the help guys and gals


----------



## Crimedogg32

I will be receiving a Panasonic P50S30 on Friday. I am willing to hold off using the TV until after breaking it in but how would you suggest breaking in this plasma?


Also is there any rules I should institute to keep my plasma in good condition after it is broken in?


Thanks for helping out a noob


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crimedogg32* /forum/post/20951737
> 
> 
> I will be receiving a Panasonic P50S30 on Friday. I am willing to hold off using the TV until after breaking it in but how would you suggest breaking in this plasma?
> 
> 
> Also is there any rules I should institute to keep my plasma in good condition after it is broken in?
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping out a noob



no break-in necessary. Just enjoy and watch tv and avoid the headache of break-in.

I have a Samsung Plasma and have no issue with IR or burn-in. XBOX / PS3 games with huds dont burn in.


----------



## Crimedogg32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/20951775
> 
> 
> no break-in necessary. Just enjoy and watch tv and avoid the headache of break-in.
> 
> I have a Samsung Plasma and have no issue with IR or burn-in. XBOX / PS3 games with huds dont burn in.




I really hope that is true I have just read to many bad stories and I have time to break it in. Any suggestjons for the very cautious?


----------



## lite2

Interested in buying a plasma tv that will be used for heavy gaming. TV maybe used by various people for 5-8 hrs or more steady. Bought an LCD 4 years ago because of IR/Burn in. Really do not want to have watch the set for this issue. Will the newer plasmas be able to play video game, watch tv with logos etc... without problems? If not, I guess another lcd. Thanks for your help.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lite2* /forum/post/20951996
> 
> 
> Interested in buying a plasma tv that will be used for heavy gaming. TV maybe used by various people for 5-8 hrs or more steady. Bought an LCD 4 years ago because of IR/Burn in. Really do not want to have watch the set for this issue. Will the newer plasmas be able to play video game, watch tv with logos etc... without problems? If not, I guess another lcd. Thanks for your help.



Another LCD for you.


----------



## bigmac31391

absolutely an LED LCD or LCD!




Something else I would like to mention: It is funny how most of the Plasma Fanboys never post on this sticky to face the Real Truth about Plasma BurnIn / IR!



Just an observation.



Regards and Cheers


----------



## 80sGuy

Plasmas are excellent for movies, the best I've seen, and for games...well...they are excellent too (graphic wise) but unfortunately plasma screens are prone to burns! There are guys in here that will rave about how they'd gone 8-10 hours a day playing games and not get a single IR or burns. I can honestly say this: either they are as blind as a bat or just being plain bias. Sooner or later, you'll see them coming in here and cry all over these boards with their problems. This Reminded me of a friend that doubles his plasma as a giant computer screen for the past three years, now he's contemplating to me saying that he'd seen artifacts lingering on his screen. Fun to hear, and for the most part -- certainly fun to read about them in here.


I'm a proud owner of a 2010 42" Panasonic Plasma and I would NEVER considered using it any other way other than watching movies, let alone substituting it as a giant computer screen, or for gaming.


----------



## Buckeye911

Sure I get IR on my plasmas but so what. I don't see it with normal viewing and it goes away so I see no reason to be concerned. Honestly, I don't know why people obsess about IR. It didn't seem to bother anyone when we were all watching CRT displays so why the big deal now? If I look for IR I can see it but it's completely unnoticeable during normal viewing. I have two plasmas and two LCDs, I much prefer the plasmas.


----------



## Sibilance

... I really need to just stop reading AVS once I've decided to buy something.


I have a GT30 on the way, and the Wife and I game pretty regularly.


I think I'm just going to stop worrying about it. Either the IR will be terrible and I'll simply stop consuming /all video media period,/ (Because I enjoy gaming far more than movies and don't watch any TV of any kind,) or I won't notice the IR at all, since I've put up with a LCD screen which has severe flashlighting and banding.


Decided to pick this set up due to the issues above with my current Phillips, and the increasing annoyance of the severe lag.


To be honest, the more time I spend on these forums, the more I tend to avoid audio and visual entertainment. I suppose that's actually a good thing.


----------



## jcurran01

Hi - I just bought this TV and search for settings to break it in.


Do you need to break in LED's?


Thanks for any quick response. I want to start breaking it in.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcurran01* /forum/post/20966642
> 
> 
> Hi - I just bought this TV and search for settings to break it in.
> 
> 
> Do you need to break in LED's?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any quick response. I want to start breaking it in.



No , You do not!


----------



## tazz3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sibilance* /forum/post/20966421
> 
> 
> ... I really need to just stop reading AVS once I've decided to buy something.
> 
> 
> I have a GT30 on the way, and the Wife and I game pretty regularly.
> 
> 
> I think I'm just going to stop worrying about it. Either the IR will be terrible and I'll simply stop consuming /all video media period,/ (Because I enjoy gaming far more than movies and don't watch any TV of any kind,) or I won't notice the IR at all, since I've put up with a LCD screen which has severe flashlighting and banding.
> 
> 
> Decided to pick this set up due to the issues above with my current Phillips, and the increasing annoyance of the severe lag.
> 
> 
> To be honest, the more time I spend on these forums, the more I tend to avoid audio and visual entertainment. I suppose that's actually a good thing.



just dont game on the gt30 for the frist 150 hours and you will be ok


----------



## Matt Stieg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* /forum/post/20931478
> 
> 
> burn in IR is not a moot point! IF you are going to worry about IR , look at the sony or vizio local dimming . they have equal black levels as any high end plasma. Best thing to do , I think, is go look at each tv you are considering several times and Take your time. Make notes if ya like! Remember , you are the one going to be watching it! Regards





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Matt Stieg* /forum/post/20931056
> 
> 
> OK I'm a little confused about a certain burn-in issue. For the past 2+ years I've owned an LG LCD but I'm looking for a TV now with better blacks. I always knew plasma had better black levels than LCD but, like many, was worried about burn in. My problem is I'm an old movie buff and probably about half of my TV watching are black and white movies shot in 1.37:1, so I'm going to be doing a LOT of 4:3 watching. Like I said I steered clear of plasma despite the better blacks because I was afraid of the black bars on the sides burning in. From what I understand now, though, it's not so much the black bars burning in as uneven aging of the phosphors? That is, when there are black bars on the sides the phosphors are not being used, thus the phosphors in the middle portion of the screen being used to create the image will age faster than the phosphors on the sides? I know Panasonic has an option to set the black bars to grey, but then wouldn't those grey bars burn in since they're not black?
> 
> 
> Also, how effective are the pixel orbiters that many sets have now? Theoretically, if the pixels are being continuously shifted, then shouldn't burn in be a moot point now?



Thanks Bigmac. I'm still wondering about 4:3 black bars, because technically they don't "burn in," correct? With regards to black bars it's uneven aging of the phosphors that one has to worry about, right? Now I do watch a lot of older black and white 4:3 films, how much does anyone here notice the uneven aging? I know with Panasonic you can change 4:3 black bars to grey, but wouldn't the grey bars actually be _more_ likely to burn in than the black bars?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Matt Stieg* /forum/post/20970390
> 
> 
> Thanks Bigmac. I'm still wondering about 4:3 black bars, because technically they don't "burn in," correct? With regards to black bars it's uneven aging of the phosphors that one has to worry about, right? Now I do watch a lot of older black and white 4:3 films, how much does anyone here notice the uneven aging? I know with Panasonic you can change 4:3 black bars to grey, but wouldn't the grey bars actually be _more_ likely to burn in than the black bars?



Hi,

what you have said seems to be right,But if you have a panny i think it has got a settings called 4:3 Full content option.Try it but one down side is the objects will appear slightly bolted or stout.And i personally use my plasma only to watch HD content in 16:9 ratio without black bars.And if the 16:9 Content does not fill my screen i just use the zoom one mode.Or else most of the time i leave the setting to "just" or 1:1 pixel mode.I think its often referred to as over-scan.By doing so all the sides,edges gets filled with video content properly.What's really funny is that even 50 years or more of color cinema & broadcasting they have not yet reached a proper standard for Full HD in terms of ntsc,pal system and also 16:9 HDTV's still puts out black bars on top & bottom of the screen.This is really not encouraging.Since i changed by sony crt to hdtv just with the hope that i will not see anymore black bars.But its still visible in most of the modern BD movies.


love,

kris.


----------



## labze

Hi everybody,


I am strongly considering to purchase my first ever plasma tv, and my choice is the panasonic G30. However i am not sure if this is the right choice, or if i should go LCD instead.


The thing is the television will be placed in my bedroom, so that means movie watching in a dark room, that is the reason i'd much prefer plasma, addition to the great PQ and greater motion.


However, the majority material i will be watching is blu rays, which means black bars (like 8 out of 10 hours will be bluray), however i only use the tv like 3-4 times a week TOPS, watching 1 thing at a time, so i maybe use the tv 5-8 hours a week. All material will be played through DLNA or Bluray player. Since i don't intend to game or watch normal television, since i don't have an antenna in my room, i am not afraid of the logo burn ins and stuff like that, only thing i am afraid of is the black bars.


Will the black bars cause much of a concern for me, if i were to do an occasional screen wash, or am i doomed to another LCD?


(Example would be i watched 4 bluray movies (not in a row), and then watched an hour or two of some fullscreen series and repeated this pattern forever)


----------



## dpippel

What makes you think that Blu-ray = 2.35:1 (black bars) content?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *labze* /forum/post/20991244
> 
> 
> Hi everybody,the majority material i will be watching is blu rays, which means black bars (like 8 out of 10 hours will be bluray), only thing i am afraid of is the black bars.
> 
> Will the black bars cause much of a concern for me, if i were to do an occasional screen wash, or am i doomed to another "LCD" ?



Hi,

As you said most of the modern movies mastered in Blu-ray format is 16:9 but does have black bars on the top & bottom most of the time..

But since you are going to watch BD content or HD content most of the time,you can simply enlarge the video to fit the screen,Say zoom one mode which most of the latest panasonic plasma's have got.

Believe me the video does not appear elongated or bulging as many would think so.And the image is also not blurred.So when you have BD content with full screen content just switch it back to 16:9 or "just" option.

And there is nothing much to worry about.

My suggestion will be always buy hi end or top of the line models be it 2d or 3d.i.e G series or GT,VT series.Even last year model g-20 or gt-20,vt-20 with Size range for bedroom will be 42 to 46 inches plasma will be an excellent choice.It is not necessary that you buy the latest models.Since most of the 2011 models are highly glossy black finish with one sheet of glass type.It seems to reflect more external light from the surroundings.

Plasma viewing is so gentle on the eyes,especially when you retire from work for the day and are relaxing in your bed,the video from plasma tv are not at all painfull on the eyes !


Love,

kris.


----------



## labze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dpippel* /forum/post/20991349
> 
> 
> What makes you think that Blu-ray = 2.35:1 (black bars) content?



Well almost all my bluray films are that format


----------



## dpippel

Interesting. My Blu-ray library is probably a 50-50 mix of 16:9 and 2.35:1 content.


----------



## ChrisPharmD

If a movie came out in theaters in 3D, then it will take up the entire screen.


If the movie is a Pixar movie, a cartoon, or animated, then it will take up the entire screen.


If the movie is a major production (and NOT 3D), then it will probably have black bars.


This is just the trend I have noticed.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/20997388
> 
> 
> If a movie came out in theaters in 3D, then it will take up the entire screen.
> 
> 
> If the movie is a Pixar movie, a cartoon, or animated, then it will take up the entire screen.
> 
> 
> If the movie is a major production (and NOT 3D), then it will probably have black bars.
> 
> 
> This is just the trend I have noticed.



False to everything you just said. That is not how it works. 3D or Pixar cartoon doesnt mean it is always 16:9 as there have been numerous animated movies that are not 16:9. It is up to the director on the film aspect ratio. Please read up on how aspect ratios work before spouting nonsense on this board.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/20998934
> 
> 
> False to everything you just said. That is not how it works. 3D or Pixar cartoon doesnt mean it is always 16:9 as there have been numerous animated movies that are not 16:9. It is up to the director on the film aspect ratio. Please read up on how aspect ratios work before spouting nonsense on this board.



Okay, guess you missed the part where I said "At least this is the trend that I have noticed."


And according to what I've experienced, it's very true. Why would a 3D movie NOT take up the full screen? That doesn't even make sense. Transformers 1 and 2 both come in black bars, but I bet you $1,000,000,000,000,000 that Transformers 3 takes up the entire screen. (No, I haven't seen it.)


BTW, If you're going to give me a condescending "FALSE," then at least give me an example of movies that contradict my post.


----------



## dazz87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/20999461
> 
> 
> I bet you $1,000,000,000,000,000 that Transformers 3 takes up the entire screen. (No, I haven't seen it.)



Wrong again. Aspect ratio: 2.40:1.


----------



## kris achar

Dear friends,


here the topic of discussion was what to do if black bars(Top & bottom)are visible even in latest widescreen BD mastered movies ? In that case how to avoid IR or Burn-in.

But i see we are arguing here about the aspect ratio.And not giving suggestion as to what to do if that is the case ?


Love,

kris.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dazz87* /forum/post/20999587
> 
> 
> Wrong again. Aspect ratio: 2.40:1.



Like I said before, that doesn't make sense. Why would a 3D movie not take up the entire screen on your TV?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/21000514
> 
> 
> Like I said before, that doesn't make sense. Why would a 3D movie not take up the entire screen on your TV?



Because movies are made for the formats/aspect ratios of movie theater screens, and not TV screens.


----------



## Tunnel

I agree and i think its ridiculously silly to release blu-rays with black bars. I don't care if they want to release the movie the exact same way as it was in the theater. Few of us have movie theater size screens in our homes and to me it makes zero sense to not use a portion of the 16:9 screen.


I dont think you can avoid getting a little IR from a letterboxed blu-ray, however if you mix up your viewing content it should never be an issue. I watched 2 blu-rays on the weekend with bars, after i was done i noticed a bit of IR from the bars on the green slide. I watched regular TV later that day for an hour and the bars were gone.


Mike


----------



## dpippel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnel* /forum/post/21003435
> 
> 
> I agree and i think its ridiculously silly to release blu-rays with black bars. I don't care if they want to release the movie the exact same way as it was in the theater. Few of us have movie theater size screens in our homes and to me it makes zero sense to not use a portion of the 16:9 screen.


----------



## Sibilance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tazz3* /forum/post/20967379
> 
> 
> just dont game on the gt30 for the frist 150 hours and you will be ok



Thanks for the advice Tazz. The Wife is going off on a lengthy vacation with a buddy of hers, so I'm going to let the set churn through slides for at least 100 hours while I take care of other important errands.


... Like going out and drinking at a local sports bar.


----------



## DanPackMan

It wouldn't bother me if TVs had a break-in feature to very slowly move the black-barred content up and down the screen while viewing.


----------



## Matt Stieg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnel* /forum/post/21003435
> 
> 
> I agree and i think its ridiculously silly to release blu-rays with black bars. I don't care if they want to release the movie the exact same way as it was in the theater. Few of us have movie theater size screens in our homes and to me it makes zero sense to not use a portion of the 16:9 screen.
> 
> 
> I dont think you can avoid getting a little IR from a letterboxed blu-ray, however if you mix up your viewing content it should never be an issue. I watched 2 blu-rays on the weekend with bars, after i was done i noticed a bit of IR from the bars on the green slide. I watched regular TV later that day for an hour and the bars were gone.
> 
> 
> Mike



So I guess you also preferred pan & scan when we used to watch 4:3 CRT sets?


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tunnel* /forum/post/21003435
> 
> 
> I agree and i think its ridiculously silly to release blu-rays with black bars. I don't care if they want to release the movie the exact same way as it was in the theater. Few of us have movie theater size screens in our homes and to me it makes zero sense to not use a portion of the 16:9 screen.
> 
> 
> I dont think you can avoid getting a little IR from a letterboxed blu-ray, however if you mix up your viewing content it should never be an issue. I watched 2 blu-rays on the weekend with bars, after i was done i noticed a bit of IR from the bars on the green slide. I watched regular TV later that day for an hour and the bars were gone.
> 
> 
> Mike


 http://www.eoshd.com/content/265/phi...80p-resolution 


buybuybuy


Personally, I could never understand how people could stand pan and scan. How's that for a tongue twister?


----------



## bigmac31391

You can watch an letter=box movie and it doesn't matter how much you wash, you run into uneven pixel use . The more letter-boxed movies you watch, the more uneven pixel use you acquire! Cheers


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigmac31391* /forum/post/21009698
> 
> 
> You can watch an letter=box movie and it doesn't matter how much you wash, you run into uneven pixel use . The more letter-boxed movies you watch, the more uneven pixel use you acquire! Cheers



I'll say it again, try a different set besides Samsung® models and try turning on orbiter for a change in between pause screens you leave up while you contemplate how to make your hypothetical sets get more burn-in.


----------



## DevoX

You know what's really odd about IR on plasma?


Sometimes my wife and I leave the TV on mute while we have dinner. The Samsung has a little blue box that comes up in the bottom-left that says "Mute" during this period.


We have left the TV on mute for HOURS with that little box.


To this day, there is no burn-in or IR there. Nothing. I've looked! Believe me. Three years ago I thought "OMG!" and checked. Here we are in late 2011 and just last night we had it on mute again. I checked against a full-screen white image and nothing.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Some gui on the screen are very subtle and not in torch mode. I can watch certain programs for hours and hours like 'Animal Planet' and 'Showtime' movies with its logos/names plastered all over the screen and nothing will happen, but as soon as I switch to ESPN, all hell broke loose! So IR is there, some are heavy and others are not, it's just the nature of plasma.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21010003
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, try a different set besides Samsung® models and try turning on orbiter for a change in between pause screens you leave up while you contemplate how to make your hypothetical sets get more burn-in.



LOL! I wish I had my Samsung LN A650! I is the only TV made by Samsung that I have owned. It is sitting in the bedroom with a broken screen! Anyone want it for parts.?


----------



## fuisu98

Just picked this TV up from Best Buy and I want to avoid IR/Burn in and I understand you are the folks to see about this....What settings do I need to maintain for the first 150-200 hours. Secondly, is there any type of programming to avoid (sports, all HD, gaming etc) I understand gaming is a no-no during the break in period, thats fine. Is there anything special I need to do?


Admittedly, I am bit of a noob when it comes to plasma so all help is appreciated.


Thanks,


----------



## thesalesman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sibilance* /forum/post/20966421
> 
> 
> ... I really need to just stop reading AVS once I've decided to buy something.
> 
> 
> I have a GT30 on the way, and the Wife and I game pretty regularly.
> 
> 
> I think I'm just going to stop worrying about it. Either the IR will be terrible and I'll simply stop consuming /all video media period,/ (Because I enjoy gaming far more than movies and don't watch any TV of any kind,) or I won't notice the IR at all, since I've put up with a LCD screen which has severe flashlighting and banding.
> 
> 
> Decided to pick this set up due to the issues above with my current Phillips, and the increasing annoyance of the severe lag.
> 
> 
> To be honest, the more time I spend on these forums, the more I tend to avoid audio and visual entertainment. I suppose that's actually a good thing.



I just purchased the GT30 and broke in the set for about 160 hours. Add a month or two of casual watching I was well over the break in point. I just bought Dark Souls and can definitely see image retention on all corners of the screen. It's not really noticeable in casual watching, but if you watch for you can catch it on occasions.


----------



## mattydr

Hi all. Bought a 42" GT25 in July. My wife's favorite channel is TLC, and the stupid logo is burnt in at the moment. Noticed it about two weeks ago, since then she has watched very little, and I have run probably 15-20 hours of football as well as cumulative 2 hours of the screen wipe. It doesn't appear to have faded at all.


I'm pretty surprised to have encountered this, she doesn't watch more than 7 hours a WEEK, and I have used it plenty for gaming, football, etc. In fact if anything I was worried about getting burn-in from the DKCR HUD, but there is nothing at all there. We watch movies as well.


Everything I read was that we didn't really need to worry about this unless we were watching one station with a static logo/ticker for many hours a day. I'm sure we got at least 50-75 hours on the TV before we even got cable service at all, and like I said our usage has always been well-mixed. I'm really disappointed about this. Ultimately it's not the end of the world, I don't really notice it unless I look for it, but it's not something that I feel I should have to be dealing with.


So, besides just venting, I was wondering if there is anything I can do to try to get this logo to fade? I see some people saying this stuff fades with time, others saying they have IR/burn-in that has never gone away. The screen wipe doesn't help much because it only lasts 15 minutes. Any suggestions for something I can leave running over night that could help? I see mention of solid-color slides, will running those continuously over night do me any good? Obviously TV stations are out due to logos . . .


Anyone had luck with warranty claims with Panasonic over burn-in?


TIA


----------



## 80sGuy

^^What did you guys had your Contrast and Brightness set at?


----------



## mattydr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy* /forum/post/21048927
> 
> 
> ^^What did you guys had your Contrast and Brightness set at?



Mostly I have had it in THX mode on Contrast 65 Brightness 51. I have Custom set to Contrast 85 but I only put that on if I'm watching a game during the day. (Fairly bright room in morning/early afternoon) It may have been left that way here and there when my wife was using it but the majority of viewing has been at THX/65/51.


----------



## 80sGuy

Might want to get the Brightness/Contrast down to 55/56, believe me it helps!


----------



## Sibilance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mattydr* /forum/post/21048690
> 
> 
> So, besides just venting, I was wondering if there is anything I can do to try to get this logo to fade? I see some people saying this stuff fades with time, others saying they have IR/burn-in that has never gone away. The screen wipe doesn't help much because it only lasts 15 minutes. Any suggestions for something I can leave running over night that could help? I see mention of solid-color slides, will running those continuously over night do me any good? Obviously TV stations are out due to logos . . .
> 
> 
> TIA



Disney WoW disk. Use the Pixel Flipper. It's the only suggestion I have, and others might have better ones.


----------



## Sibilance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thesalesman* /forum/post/21048584
> 
> 
> I just purchased the GT30 and broke in the set for about 160 hours. Add a month or two of casual watching I was well over the break in point. I just bought Dark Souls and can definitely see image retention on all corners of the screen. It's not really noticeable in casual watching, but if you watch for you can catch it on occasions.



Thanks. Checked out some video of the Dark Souls HUD.


... Burn in aside, that HUD is /gigantic./ It covers up a large portion of the screen! I think I'd actually try playing the game with it off and just guestimate how much ammo, health, and mana I had.


----------



## toleero

Panasonic ST30 after 3-4 hours of GoW3 on Horde.


Broken in for 100 hours with slides, then set with D-Nice settings, set is around 1000 hours old.



http://imgur.com/avdxA.jpg%5B/IMG%5D


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toleero* /forum/post/21052382
> 
> 
> Panasonic ST30 after 3-4 hours of GoW3 on Horde.
> 
> 
> Broken in for 100 hours with slides, then set with D-Nice settings, set is around 1000 hours old.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/avdxA.jpg%5B/IMG%5D



next time you post a pic, make sure it clearly shows the issue. I dont see any issue with that pic.


----------



## Buckeye911

^ I can't see an issue in the picture either.


----------



## Nameless_87

Hi,


I received a 65VT30E european model yesterday









I plan on using the slides to break it in... but I need help on the correct way to do it!


What is the procedure for this?


Just stick it in THX mode and run the slides? And at what interval between slides? What about contrast/brightness in THX mode... should I leave everything at default in THX mode to break in using slides?


Thanks


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/21053131
> 
> 
> next time you post a pic, make sure it clearly shows the issue. I dont see any issue with that pic.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/21053454
> 
> 
> ^ I can't see an issue in the picture either.



Neither of you have good monitors in that case. I do see it. Circular logo retention.


----------



## Sibilance

... I see it, faintly. Looks like a very /very/ pale cog. Honestly, I don't think that would bother me too much if it happened on my set, and I think that's well within the range of IR that goes away without too much worry.


Dunno if it matters, but my computer monitor is a FW900.


----------



## ChrisPharmD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21053876
> 
> 
> Neither of you have good monitors in that case. I do see it. Circular logo retention.



I have an early 2011 Macbook Pro and I don't see it...


----------



## toleero

Update:


The logo is still there, but more faint.


I'm tempted to get rid of this IR and then sell the set in favour of an LCD panel, it's totally ruined the way I watch content and I'm sick of babying it.


----------



## itc_sburnett

ok, so this is probably a stupid question...

I found D-Links procedure, the burn in slides and transferred them to a SD card. The slides are not transitioning in order, but do I really care? Isn't the idea to exercise the RGB pixels in varying strength?


----------



## lakinsdad

Guys. I bought a krp 500m a year ago. Palledia was burned in on the right corner lower. It was a display tv in a high def store.


I asked the dealer what he wanted for it. He said 3000 . I said look at the burn in on the right corner. He knocked it down to 1500 bucks. This was a year ago. I had Dnice calibrate it. He saw the burn in. He wasn't worried either. He said after a few hundred hours it would go away.


A year later and he was right. Gone.


----------



## lakinsdad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toleero* /forum/post/21065720
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> The logo is still there, but more faint.
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to get rid of this IR and then sell the set in favour of an LCD panel, it's totally ruined the way I watch content and I'm sick of babying it.



I have been playing a lot of gears 3 lately too. I have 3 plasma's still I game on my PC monitor. 27 inch compaq.


I have never felt right gaming for long hours on a plasma. Like you said. LCD is the way to go for you.


----------



## lakinsdad

Dnice also states in his panel prep that Break in is not designed to prevent IR or Burn in.


----------



## karlheinzxyz

Hey guys, hope you can help me with this.


I read elsewhere that a plasma tv is susceptible to burn-ins only within the first 1000 hours of use.

If I know have the break-in images run for about 200 hours at maximum contrast and brightness, will that be about just as good as 1000 hours of normal use, so that my TV won't be susceptible to burn-ins anymore? I know you can't tell exactly, so I'd just like to hear an estimate.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *karlheinzxyz* /forum/post/21080188
> 
> 
> Hey guys, hope you can help me with this.
> 
> 
> I read elsewhere that a plasma tv is susceptible to burn-ins only within the first 1000 hours of use.
> 
> If I know have the break-in images run for about 200 hours at maximum contrast and brightness, will that be about just as good as 1000 hours of normal use, so that my TV won't be susceptible to burn-ins anymore? I know you can't tell exactly, so I'd just like to hear an estimate.



Hi,

My humble request is don't waste time running colour slides for the first 100 or 200 hrs.Since if you are not carefull with static images you will get IR even after 200 hrs or one year of usage.So simply use your new plasma tv to view HD movies or BD content without logos and black bars on top/bottm or at the sides.And if you use colour slides 24x7 for a week or two.Iam sure your plasma panel will reach half life much sooner.Even if it does not reach some of the caps or the power regulation IC's and circuit boards will become weak.

So 4 to 6 hours of normal viewing with color and contrast to your liking will be just okay.Dynamic mode or torch mode should be avoided...


Here is a link that i request you to read about plasma panel aging and you can also read the other pages on this link.It should clear most of your doubts.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...ormance-page-3 


Love,

kris.


----------



## karlheinzxyz

Hey, kris.


Thanks for your answer.

Since burn-ins might appear even after lots of hours of use, I'm always afraid something like this will happen sooner or later. Even though I'm pretty convinced by the plasma tv image quality, I'm not really sure if I wouldn't be better off buying an LCD with Full LED, since I'm planning to use it at least 50% of the time for my PS3.


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toleero* /forum/post/21065720
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> The logo is still there, but more faint.
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to get rid of this IR and then sell the set in favour of an LCD panel, it's totally ruined the way I watch content and I'm sick of babying it.



I feel for you, Man! Plasmas ruin the way we want to watch our TVs


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Four potentially stupid questions:


1) Is there a reason we have to reduce contrast and brightness for the break-in slides? I'm not saying I want to max them out anyway, but if they're all wearing in evenly, what's the difference?


2) I wouldn't mind running the break-in slides on a DVD, but is anybody cautious about destroying their laser with their DVD player? For instance, I would probably be running mine with my PS3 (I don't really have any other kinds of DVD players anymore lol). Wouldn't running it for 100 hours straight probably be problematic for the player?


3) Does anybody just occasionally run their slides at night for the heck of it? Like, say you did 150 hours of break-in, then you watch a movie some night... would it be beneficial to just let it run for another nine hours while you're sleeping, just to help break it in more?


4) I'll be getting a Samsung PN59D7000 soon. Should I calibrate this set with the white balance and other color adjustments first before breaking in? That way, it's wearing in the colors I'll actually be using on the TV, if that makes sense. (along with changing to Warm 2, etc.)


Thanks.



EDIT: And a fifth question with two parts...


5) Does the scrolling black--white burn-in prevention feature really help much if it's not using other colors as well? If so, how would just watching a snowy scrambled channel do as a burn-in prevention tactic? It would just be flashing white and black all over the place. Maybe that's good for something?


----------



## Tunnel

This is a question for any and all Panasonic plasma owners. I think it would be nice to clear this up for new plasma owners also.


I have always wondered what Picture Modes and/or which HD Size turns off the orbiter without us knowing.


For example i have read in some modes that the set automatically turns the orbiter off depending on which HD SIZE you have it set too. Trying to find concrete information on this has proven to be difficult. I have always gamed in THX mode, but now im not sure its wise simply because i do not know for certain if the Pixel Orbitor has been disabled or not. Does HD Size 1 turn the pixel orbiter on? Does HD Size 2 turn it off or vice versa? So i now use game mode because i am 99.9% positive that the Orbitor is not off in this mode. I am one of these people who cannot see the orbitor shifting the pixels on my panel, so its futile for me to stare at the set looking for pixel movement. I know some people have been affected by bad IR from gaming, and i think its critical for people especially gamers to know if they have unknowingly turned off the pixel orbitor.


Could someone please clear this up. I dont really worry too much about IR, however i do want to make sure my set is being protected as much as possible.


Thanks,


Mike


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *karlheinzxyz* /forum/post/21084160
> 
> 
> Hey, kris.
> 
> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> Since burn-ins might appear even after lots of hours of use, I'm always afraid something like this will happen sooner or later. Even though I'm pretty convinced by the plasma tv image quality, I'm not really sure if I wouldn't be better off buying an LCD with Full LED, since I'm planning to use it at least 50% of the time for my PS3.



Hi,

If you use your tv primarily for playing games or for watching sports & news channel with dark coloured logos & running stickers.Its safe to go in for L.E.D Hdtv with local dimming from reputed brands like Sharp,Sony....

But if you are a Hollywood movie lover then you should buy a plasma.

But IR & permanent burn-in are not very serious issues with modern day plasma.And if your tv dealer gives you 30 day return back facility if not satisfied with the performance,then i would suggest you to buy Panasonic plasma and test it for IR.And please do not waste time & elec energy by running color slides.And as far as brightness/Contrast/Color settings just set it to levels with which your eyes are comfortable with.

By the way all my close relatives have LCD's and i could not digest the picture quality for more than 30 minutes.The color gradation looks very limited most of the sea & ocean sequence the blue looks the same with no variation.I would say the Modern plasmas have come very close to the old CRT picture quality in terms of its natural colour feel.

Love,

kris.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21085869
> 
> 
> Four potentially stupid questions:
> 
> 
> 1) Is there a reason we have to reduce contrast and brightness for the break-in slides? I'm not saying I want to max them out anyway, but if they're all wearing in evenly, what's the difference?
> 
> 
> 2) I wouldn't mind running the break-in slides on a DVD, but is anybody cautious about destroying their laser with their DVD player? For instance, I would probably be running mine with my PS3 (I don't really have any other kinds of DVD players anymore lol). Wouldn't running it for 100 hours straight probably be problematic for the player?
> 
> 
> 3) Does anybody just occasionally run their slides at night for the heck of it? Like, say you did 150 hours of break-in, then you watch a movie some night... would it be beneficial to just let it run for another nine hours while you're sleeping, just to help break it in more?
> 
> 
> 4) I'll be getting a Samsung PN59D7000 soon. Should I calibrate this set with the white balance and other color adjustments first before breaking in? That way, it's wearing in the colors I'll actually be using on the TV, if that makes sense. (along with changing to Warm 2, etc.)
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: And a fifth question with two parts...
> 
> 
> 5) Does the scrolling black--white burn-in prevention feature really help much if it's not using other colors as well? If so, how would just watching a snowy scrambled channel do as a burn-in prevention tactic? It would just be flashing white and black all over the place. Maybe that's good for something?



Hi,

All the above questions you have asked,i would like to answer it in brief.Since most of your questions have been answered earlier in this thread by our forum regulars.

What i want to add here is every brand of plasma tv's behaves a bit differently.And also hi-end and low end models,Since they are manufactured in different factories in different countries.

I have panasonic plasma 2D v20 series asian model.I did get mild IR for the first 100 hrs.Now the tv is around 6 months old and have done more than 250 hrs of normal viewing.The IR is not a problem any more for my regular HD DTH viewing.

And i have not used color sides but used it as a normal tv.

But i do not know for sure how your brand will react to the first 200 hrs of content viewing.

I would suggest you to use your tv as you did with your CRT.But avoide black bar content and dark channel logos for not more than 25 to 30 minutes.

And you should caliberate your new tv only after 250 hrs of regular use.the later you caliberate you will get more accurate settings.

Love,

kris.


By the way if you are very insistent on using break-in slides then use the usb option,i.e load all your color slides into a USB pen drive and just insert it into your plasma tv usb port which is usually seen in the side of the panel.It will switch automatically into photo viewing mode.The duration and effect you can set in the settings menu.Rest all is taken care by your tv itself.But i would say don't waste time & elec energy to break-in your plasma tv.That's old procedure....


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisPharmD* /forum/post/21056059
> 
> 
> I have an early 2011 Macbook Pro and I don't see it...



You paid a lot for a reasonable build laptop, but not one with a screen that's anything to brag about. AFAIK only the iMacs and ACDs sport IPS screens so you can't expect to see proper gradations on a TN. They simply don't have the subtlety. The LED backlight also isn't helping anything. There's a reason people who care about color reproduction haven't gone over to those fancy LED screens. CCFL generally provide much more even backlight, even if the MLL is higher.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *karlheinzxyz* /forum/post/21080188
> 
> 
> Hey guys, hope you can help me with this.
> 
> 
> I read elsewhere that a plasma tv is susceptible to burn-ins only within the first 1000 hours of use.
> 
> If I know have the break-in images run for about 200 hours at maximum contrast and brightness, will that be about just as good as 1000 hours of normal use, so that my TV won't be susceptible to burn-ins anymore? I know you can't tell exactly, so I'd just like to hear an estimate.



They are _most_ susceptible during that time period, not only susceptible during that time period. In terms of your specific set, no one can tell you because there are differences from set to set in terms of being prone to IR.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21086277
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> All the above questions you have asked,i would like to answer it in brief.Since most of your questions have been answered earlier in this thread by our forum regulars.
> 
> What i want to add here is every brand of plasma tv's behaves a bit differently.And also hi-end and low end models,Since they are manufactured in different factories in different countries.
> 
> I have panasonic plasma 2D v20 series asian model.I did get mild IR for the first 100 hrs.Now the tv is around 6 months old and have done more than 250 hrs of normal viewing.The IR is not a problem any more for my regular HD DTH viewing.
> 
> And i have not used color sides but used it as a normal tv.
> 
> But i do not know for sure how your brand will react to the first 200 hrs of content viewing.
> 
> I would suggest you to use your tv as you did with your CRT.But avoide black bar content and dark channel logos for not more than 25 to 30 minutes.
> 
> And you should caliberate your new tv only after 250 hrs of regular use.the later you caliberate you will get more accurate settings.
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.
> 
> 
> By the way if you are very insistent on using break-in slides then use the usb option,i.e load all your color slides into a USB pen drive and just insert it into your plasma tv usb port which is usually seen in the side of the panel.It will switch automatically into photo viewing mode.The duration and effect you can set in the settings menu.Rest all is taken care by your tv itself.But i would say don't waste time & elec energy to break-in your plasma tv.That's old procedure....



In your opinion. People who've never seen IR on a set are more likely to take a "do whatever you want" stance. People who have are more likely to take a "be more careful" stance. I've seen IR on CRTs and LCDs. Getting a kuro on the firesale, I ran slides and babied it for the first 1k-1.5k hours knowing a replacement wouldn't be so easy to find.


One person might get a set that gets IR right out of the box. Another might get a set they abuse to all hell and never gets it. And anything in between. Everyone needs to decide for their own whether they want to do break-in. IMO an IR-prone set should be considered a defect provided the set hasn't been totally abused, but as it's not covered under warranties, a little care is worthwhile.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21086277
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> All the above questions you have asked,i would like to answer it in brief.Since most of your questions have been answered earlier in this thread by our forum regulars.
> 
> What i want to add here is every brand of plasma tv's behaves a bit differently.And also hi-end and low end models,Since they are manufactured in different factories in different countries.
> 
> I have panasonic plasma 2D v20 series asian model.I did get mild IR for the first 100 hrs.Now the tv is around 6 months old and have done more than 250 hrs of normal viewing.The IR is not a problem any more for my regular HD DTH viewing.
> 
> And i have not used color sides but used it as a normal tv.
> 
> But i do not know for sure how your brand will react to the first 200 hrs of content viewing.
> 
> I would suggest you to use your tv as you did with your CRT.But avoide black bar content and dark channel logos for not more than 25 to 30 minutes.
> 
> And you should caliberate your new tv only after 250 hrs of regular use.the later you caliberate you will get more accurate settings.
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.
> 
> 
> By the way if you are very insistent on using break-in slides then use the usb option,i.e load all your color slides into a USB pen drive and just insert it into your plasma tv usb port which is usually seen in the side of the panel.It will switch automatically into photo viewing mode.The duration and effect you can set in the settings menu.Rest all is taken care by your tv itself.But i would say don't waste time & elec energy to break-in your plasma tv.That's old procedure....



Thanks for all of your help, but I should have actually clarified a few things:


- I'm not a techie dinosaur. We have a plasma screen downstairs (although it's a Panasonic Viera TH-50PX6U... yeah, what the hell is that lol) that has a cable box and does all of the regular viewing. In my own room, I am going to replace my Samsung LN-T2353H LCD, in favor of remodeling that entire wall end and putting in a Samsung PN59D7000. So, I understand what it is that I want to do with these things when it comes to normal care and what not, but I have heard some certain things about plasma break-in processes that I do and don't understand.


- I will not be watching any normal TV whatsoever. This TV will strictly be for watching movies and playing games (also MLB.TV when the next season comes around, but that will leave a score ticker somewhere unfortunately). So, I could always watch Avatar over and over or whatever, but I wanted to age the phosphors for the first 150 hours or so, and then get some of that viewing in.


People always recommended to "change my contrast and brightness to 50" for these break-in hours, but my question is why? What separates 50 from 100, or from 25, or from what I will calibrate them at, or whatever?


Also, the reason I asked about the DVD is because the last time I tried a thumbstick on our plasma at school, I could only run slides for five seconds before switching to the next one, as opposed to running the suggested thirty seconds per slide. Maybe this TV will have different effect settings, though (one would hope). I suppose the DVD would have the actual, correct timing of all of these. That's the only reason I asked.


Anyway, thanks for all of your help. I'll see where to go from here.


----------



## karlheinzxyz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21086518
> 
> 
> They are _most_ susceptible during that time period, not only susceptible during that time period. In terms of your specific set, no one can tell you because there are differences from set to set in terms of being prone to IR.



I somewhere read some Panasonic support note saying that after a thousand hours of use, the danger of burn-ins is practically non-existing anymore. That's what I was refering to.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you use your tv primarily for playing games or for watching sports & news channel with dark coloured logos & running stickers.Its safe to go in for L.E.D Hdtv with local dimming from reputed brands like Sharp,Sony....



I won't only play games and I watch sports practically never. News just once or twice a day.


Right now I'm really into the Panasonic VT30 because of its said-to-be-amazing image quality. Would you say I can play 2 or 3 hours a day without having to worry?


Interesting question here I couldn't find an answer to: If you play for, let's say, an hour, then take a break of 5 minutes and go on for another hour, will that be of any use? Or would that break be too short and you could've just as well kept playing? So, does the length of a break matter?


Greetings


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *karlheinzxyz* /forum/post/21088545
> 
> 
> I somewhere read some Panasonic support note saying that after a thousand hours of use, the danger of burn-ins is practically non-existing anymore. That's what I was refering to.



The risk is much less, but like I said tolerances seem to vary from set to set to a degree even w/in the same model/brand. Some sets will have 0 danger, others will have bad problems. Overall, plasmas are pretty reliable but there's always a luck of the draw component.



> Quote:
> I won't only play games and I watch sports practically never. News just once or twice a day.
> 
> 
> Right now I'm really into the Panasonic VT30 because of its said-to-be-amazing image quality. Would you say I can play 2 or 3 hours a day without having to worry?
> 
> 
> Interesting question here I couldn't find an answer to: If you play for, let's say, an hour, then take a break of 5 minutes and go on for another hour, will that be of any use? Or would that break be too short and you could've just as well kept playing? So, does the length of a break matter?
> 
> 
> Greetings



The main thing I would say for news type stuff is to enable a zoom mode that cuts off all the annoying bars that you don't usually pay attention to anyway.


In terms of taking breaks, breaks are ALWAYS benefitial. The longer the break you take the better. But playing some hours with no breaks is obviously going to be worse than playing for hours with a few short breaks. Also, it is worth noting that common medical advice is to take regular 5-15min breaks if you're sitting at a computer or tv for long periods of time and walk around a little, eat something, get some fresh air, etc.. to avoid problems with being stationary too long.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *karlheinzxyz* /forum/post/21088545
> 
> 
> I won't only play games and I watch sports practically never. News just once or twice a day.
> 
> 
> Right now I'm really into the Panasonic VT30 because of its said-to-be-amazing image quality. Would you say I can play 2 or 3 hours a day without having to worry?
> 
> 
> Interesting question here I couldn't find an answer to: If you play for, let's say, an hour, then take a break of 5 minutes and go on for another hour, will that be of any use? Or would that break be too short and you could've just as well kept playing? So, does the length of a break matter?
> 
> 
> Greetings



Hi,

If you are going to use your plasma primarily for movies & to Watch HD content without black bars or channel logos,then even if you do get mild IR from playing games will soon fade away from your movie content.And if your watch fast moving movies,action movies with blast scene the I.R wiping process is much quicker.

And taking some time off from games and allowing your tv to display other content during that break is very beneficial both for your tv and your eyes.

And i have read here many saying break-in your tv 24x7 with color slides is not healthy for any consumer electronic products.It will weaken the internal components for sure.

And its believed that most of the bigger sized screens of panasonic VT series are all made in japan panel.And they are supposed to last 6 to 8 years of regular use without any problem.


In my panasonic plasma 50 inches model, I used to get mild IR for the first 100hrs or so.But now i virtually use my tv as a computer monitor and for viewing soaps with channel logos.And every 8 to 10 minutes of the tv serial they give breaks for Advts(adds).at that time their is no chanel logo.So this make it possible for me & my wife to enjoy tv programs even with logos & watermarks.


And since i have a good opinion on my panasonic plasma,in future if iam to buy a tv for my bedroom it will also be a panny plasma."I love it"







By the way my tv is a 2D 'V'_20 series.The product your are going to buy is generations ahead of mine.Certainly there will be lot of improvement both in terms of build quality and picture quality.And all new 'VT30' line up has infinite black pro & THX certification which means the phosphors inside the screen is 2 to 3 times more sensitive & responsive than the 2D models.So to be gentle on it for the first 100 or 200 hrs or 6 months of regular usage should be administered with little care.And you seem to be very knowledgeable.So i will stop my discussion wishing you best of luck of many years of happy viewing from your VT series plasma panel.


Love,

kris.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

So... it is ill-advised to run my TV for 150 hours non-stop with break-in slides? Basically, I don't want to watch any TV content until I at least reach 150 hours with the slides. Does that mean it might take me a month until I start watching my TV if I'm going to give the television set actual breaks?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Has anyone ever tried to use the PS3 music visual player #2 option to age the phosphors on your screen? Onward fly a multitude of colors all around the screen as your different songs play, and you can hide the track name meanwhile.


----------



## terzaghi

Hi all. Read through a lot of this thread and has me wondering if I should go with plasma. We just bought a panasonic 46x3 for the bedroom which we watch mostly broadcast or movies. No problems with image retention yet and viewing time is generally limited to 2 hours maximum. Currently just staying away from black bars all together with zoom or stretch. After reading this thread may need to turn the brightness down a bit for the next several weeks to help prevent any problems.


I'm loving the panasonic plasma picture so thinking about springing for a 65 VT 30 (or 65 GT 30) for the living room. Problem is, a lot of movies we watch will have the black bars on top and bottom. Also, I play a fair amount of games and on occasion can end up in a multi hour gaming session. Should we look for a technology other than plasma for the living room?


----------



## bigmac31391




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terzaghi* /forum/post/21095439
> 
> 
> Hi all. Read through a lot of this thread and has me wondering if I should go with plasma. We just bought a panasonic 46x3 for the bedroom which we watch mostly broadcast or movies. No problems with image retention yet and viewing time is generally limited to 2 hours maximum. Currently just staying away from black bars all together with zoom or stretch. After reading this thread may need to turn the brightness down a bit for the next several weeks to help prevent any problems.
> 
> 
> I'm loving the panasonic plasma picture so thinking about springing for a 65 VT 30 (or 65 GT 30) for the living room. Problem is, a lot of movies we watch will have the black bars on top and bottom. Also, I play a fair amount of games and on occasion can end up in a multi hour gaming session. Should we look for a technology other than plasma for the living room?



Yes you should! Manuf. had to change their plasma panels for 3D and therefore Burn/ir rears it's ugly head again in 2010 and 2011 and probably 2012! Panasonic and Samsung!


----------



## akademiks

Unfortunately I've got IR on my Samsung PN50B850 that hasn't gone away







.


Tried to leave on the burn in protection that came equipped with the tv for a few hours and nothing.

It's a big, ugly logo that just looks hideous.. Most likely got burned in when my son would watch TV and leave it on. I'd estimate the set has about 2500 hours on it.










It's like this logo above.. It's more prominent on white though.



Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Ah, one more question about running break-in slides:


I remember the last time I helped do it for a plasma screen, I couldn't get the "media from a thumb drive" to display my altered settings. Instead, it showed default settings. In other words, no matter what I did to the HDMI port settings or what have you (changing contrast and brightness to 50), running the break-in slides would have contrast at 100 and brightness at 70, or whatever it was at.


Is there a way to change these things, or do you think this is a "must do on DVD" kind of thing? Actually, can the PS3 read these files and run a slideshow with them? That might work.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akademiks* /forum/post/21097481
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I've got IR on my Samsung PN50B850 that hasn't gone away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Tried to leave on the burn in protection that came equipped with the tv for a few hours and nothing.
> 
> It's a big, ugly logo that just looks hideous.. Most likely got burned in when my son would watch TV and leave it on. I'd estimate the set has about 2500 hours on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like this logo above.. It's more prominent on white though.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?



What do you mean you tried to leave on the 'burn in protection" for only a few hours? Pixel shift? that should always be on. If you mean the screen burn white-to-black-to-white scrolling pattern, then run it some more. What exactly is wrong in the photo you posted? I cant see anything wrong except for the red portion having an uneven shadow to it. Is this visible during normal program watching or only on solid colors? Time to also educate your son about plasma tv and to never leave the damn tv on and waste electricity.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21089491
> 
> 
> So... it is ill-advised to run my TV for 150 hours non-stop with break-in slides? Basically, I don't want to watch any TV content until I at least reach 150 hours with the slides. Does that mean it might take me a month until I start watching my TV if I'm going to give the television set actual breaks?



It is not just ill-advised, it is nonsense to waste electricity running the slides. It's your call though. I would just watch whatever you want and enjoy the tv for what it is. just dont be stupid and leave a static image on the screen for an hour or longer and you will be okay.


----------



## rikriz

Hi, everyone. I've had trouble finding an answer to this anywhere, so I'm hoping that someone can help me.


I bought a Samsung PN58C7000 plasma 3D HDTV about 6 months ago. It was a floor model. Everything seemed great at first until about 2-3 months ago when I started to notice the occasional slight flicker of a purple horizontal band about midway up the screen whenever there was a prominently white background. Gradually, it has gotten worse with the purple band getting thicker and more bands appearing elsewhere on the screen. Also the bands are appearing when there are other light coloured backgrounds as well, not just white. Here are a couple of photos that I took of the problem. I also noticed the presence of what I believe are "purple snakes" within the purple bands which you can see quite prominently in the second picture.

Attachment 225737 

Attachment 225738 


I finally phoned Samsung and they sent over a local technician who came over yesterday and he pointed out something to me that I hadn't noticed before. The screen had developed some image retention or burn-in from a Lego Star Wars video game that my daughter and I play a lot. Specifically, you can see the after-images of two circles in each top corner where you see the current character that you are playing. The technician said that the purple bands are caused by the television compensating for the presence of the burn-in images and that Samsung probably won't cover the repair.


I immediately jumped on the internet and searched everywhere and not once was I able to find any mention of burn-in causing massive purple bands. I'm getting the sinking feeling that this technician is full of it and that I'm stuck with these ridiculous purple bands. What do any of you think?


Currently, I've got the scrolling wipe function running and the burn-in after-images are already disappearing noticeably after a few hours of running the wipe. I'm hoping to have them disappear completely, after which I believe that the purple bands will still be there and hopefully Samsung will cover the repair or replacement. I will post an update later whether or not the purple bands are still there even after the burn-in images are (hopefully) completely gone.


As a side note, with the exception of the purple bands, this plasma is an incredible television. The clarity and colours are outstanding. Absolutely loving it so far...


----------



## dlplover

Purple bands are usually a failure of the panel or the control boards associated with them. Should have nothing to do with burn in/retention unless you were displaying a screen with purple bands across it in the same location (not very likely).


----------



## akademiks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dathon* /forum/post/21102253
> 
> 
> What do you mean you tried to leave on the 'burn in protection" for only a few hours? Pixel shift? that should always be on. If you mean the screen burn white-to-black-to-white scrolling pattern, then run it some more. What exactly is wrong in the photo you posted? I cant see anything wrong except for the red portion having an uneven shadow to it. Is this visible during normal program watching or only on solid colors? Time to also educate your son about plasma tv and to never leave the damn tv on and waste electricity.



I turned on the scrolling pattern for a while and nothing. Doesn't even look like it faded.


That photo posted wasn't mine, but that entire logo "Welcome to On Demand" is burned into my plasma screen. I can see it when I'm playing video games, watching a movie, doing anything. I believe in my DVR it was black so that's why it has stayed on my TV.


My son is 4 years old. I don't need a parenting lesson, I just need to know how to remove this logo off my TV set.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

As far as running break-in slides, does it matter how long it stays on each "color"? I'm just going to save all of the images on my PS3 and run a slideshow with them. Is 30 seconds better than, say, 5 seconds for some reason? Because I can change the amount of time it stays on each color.


Also, I probably wanted to set the slideshow effect to "Fade," so it will hit other little in between colors every so often lol. Sound good?


----------



## Boldhead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akademiks* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I turned on the scrolling pattern for a while and nothing. Doesn't even look like it faded.
> 
> 
> That photo posted wasn't mine, but that entire logo "Welcome to On Demand" is burned into my plasma screen. I can see it when I'm playing video games, watching a movie, doing anything. I believe in my DVR it was black so that's why it has stayed on my TV.
> 
> 
> My son is 4 years old. I don't need a parenting lesson, I just need to know how to remove this logo off my TV set.



Only time will heal it... I had a channel logo burned in after 3 weeks in my new plasma. That was the end of july. now it's almost completely gone but it took month's for it to fade. I really believed the set was ruined.. Screenwipes and colour slides didnt help a thing, just watching normal television and movies fixed it, but it took al looong time. So just do your stuff and let the tv do its own magic.


----------



## villani77

I just bought a new Samsung PN51D550 3d plasma. And i am a bit worried but for the price i payed 800 i couldn't pass it up. Its picture is better then any tv i have seen under 1500 for the size. I am going to be taking it easy for the first 100 hours and always have no black bars and try and stay away from logos on tv. But i do game a lot and i have read that plasma's are great for gaming because of input lag. But is burn in going to be a major issue? I can handle some ir as long as it goes away after awhile. I can return it for a full refund within 30 days. Should i return it and buy a smaller lcd for the same price? even though the picture wont be nearly as good.


----------



## Traxion

I have a Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD, and while the picture quality is great, this thing suffers from burn-in issues after even short gaming sessions of 1-2 hours. Everyone spreads around this non-sense about how "modern day plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore," but my experience has shown that to be completely untrue.


My first encounter with this was about a year ago with the FOX Business channel's static logo on the bottom left of the screen. A couple hours in the morning everyday for a couple weeks (despite several hours of logo free programming for the rest of the day) was all it took to leave a ghosted image on my screen that is still there to this day.


Now, after playing a new racing game that just came out a couple weeks ago, I have the lap timer and place position that is displayed while racing burned in the top right corner of my screen, despite only playing for a couple hours a night and having plenty of time in the menus between races where the HUD is not displayed. Very disappointing...


----------



## AlanBuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Traxion* /forum/post/21122016
> 
> 
> I have a Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD, and while the picture quality is great, this thing suffers from burn-in issues after even short gaming sessions of 1-2 hours. Everyone spreads around this non-sense about how "modern day plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore," but my experience has shown that to be completely untrue.
> 
> 
> My first encounter with this was about a year ago with the FOX Business channel's static logo on the bottom left of the screen. A couple hours in the morning everyday for a couple weeks (despite several hours of logo free programming for the rest of the day) was all it took to leave a ghosted image on my screen that is still there to this day.
> 
> 
> Now, after playing a new racing game that just came out a couple weeks ago, I have the lap timer and place position that is displayed while racing burned in the top right corner of my screen, despite only playing for a couple hours a night and having plenty of time in the menus between races where the HUD is not displayed. Very disappointing...




I have a 6020 and have never seen the slightest sign of a ghost image...even after being on CNN or MSNBC for HOURS on end.


----------



## ccotenj

as another data point, i have a 150fd that has seen thousands of hours of use on espn, with zero burn in....


----------



## dlplover

Overall they don't. Honestly, I think sets that get it like that are defective, but it sucks that manufacturers won't cover those defects under warranty. With my KRP, I ran break-in slides, was very careful (only watched movies and mostly full 16:9) for the first 1-1.5k hours before gaming at all on it. I had a little ghosting on the PS3 menus (was using it for the blu-ray player before switching over to HTPC since it kept having issues with audio getting out of sync that weren't fixable), but nothing since then. I also run orbiter 2 (always on), and power save 2 (since I don't need to blind my corneas). After watching Dances with Wolves straight through somewhat recently I saw a little black bar retention, but that only lasted a few seconds. Never get it normally so I attribute that to being a drawn out overly romantic self-hate complex thing. I'm much more a fan of Last of the Mohicans or Last Samurai. I also swapped the PS3 theme to a lower contrast one than the default.


I don't know if my set hasn't gotten IR (I do game on it now some) on account of my good treatment or just because I lucked out and got a good one. Some seem a lot more prone to IR than others. Generally kuros are pretty good on this, but it's not impossible that some slipped through that weren't up to par.


I've always advocated doing the break-in slides and treating carefully the first 1-1.5k hours. I also think it's a good idea if you plan to use a set heavily for gaming etc.. to game hard on it for a bit after break-in slides to see if it can handle it.


It's really important to note that there's a bunch of people who got a set that got IR really bad and replaced it w/in the return period for a set (same brand/model) that handled it much better. So overall it's not an issue on modern plasmas unless you were unfortunate enough to get a set where it is an issue.



You may also want to ask Pioneer (if it's still under warranty) about taking a look at it if it gets IR very easily. That can sometimes be a bad board rather than a bad panel. E.g. a lot of the rising black Panasonics from a couple years ago that had the issue especially bad also had pretty bad problems with IR/BI. So it might be something worth checking into.


----------



## Traxion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AlanBuck* /forum/post/21122215
> 
> 
> I have a 6020 and have never seen the slightest sign of a ghost image...even after being on CNN or MSNBC for HOURS on end.



Do those channels have logos that stay up constantly without moving? Do you play games with static HUDs? If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then you probably do have some image retention, but just haven't noticed it because it's hard to see unless you are looking at a still, light colored image. Try this: if you have the color slide break-in dvd, pause the slideshow on a totally white slide, and examine your screen. I bet you'll be surprised at what you suddenly realize is there...


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Traxion* /forum/post/21122245
> 
> 
> Do those channels have logos that stay up constantly without moving? Do you play games with static HUDs? If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then you probably do have some image retention, but just haven't noticed it because it's hard to see unless you are looking at a still, light colored image. Try this: if you have the color slide break-in dvd, pause the slideshow on a totally white slide, and examine your screen. I bet you'll be surprised at what you suddenly realize is there...



Tossed on my color slides and there was nothing. I also am proactive about preventing it. I always change to blank input or turn off if I'm pausing something and if there's something with logos I'll zoom it to cut them off (although I don't watch a lot of tv to begin with - most of it is crap). I do set HUDs and whatnot to auto-hide. But a lot of people do what I would consider "abusing" a set (if it were mine) and have no trouble so I'm a little less careful now, but still somewhat cautious.


----------



## HTguru3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Traxion* /forum/post/21122016
> 
> 
> I have a Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD, and while the picture quality is great, this thing suffers from burn-in issues after even short gaming sessions of 1-2 hours. Everyone spreads around this non-sense about how "modern day plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore," but my experience has shown that to be completely untrue.
> 
> 
> My first encounter with this was about a year ago with the FOX Business channel's static logo on the bottom left of the screen. A couple hours in the morning everyday for a couple weeks (despite several hours of logo free programming for the rest of the day) was all it took to leave a ghosted image on my screen that is still there to this day.
> 
> 
> Now, after playing a new racing game that just came out a couple weeks ago, I have the lap timer and place position that is displayed while racing burned in the top right corner of my screen, despite only playing for a couple hours a night and having plenty of time in the menus between races where the HUD is not displayed. Very disappointing...



Burn In is extremely rare. Honda's have a good history of going long miles with proper care but even they have an occasional engine blow. A handful of cases compared to the vast numbers of panels out there doesn't make it an alarming issue and a reason to stay away from a plasma. I've had my Pioneer for about 5 years now with nary a hicup.


----------



## ccotenj

@dlplover...


that would be me... i started abusing mine very shortly after i got it, and never stopped...










didn't "break it in" either...


again, no burn in...


----------



## HTguru3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ccotenj* /forum/post/21122278
> 
> 
> @dlplover...
> 
> 
> that would be me... i started abusing mine very shortly after i got it, and never stopped...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> didn't "break it in" either...
> 
> 
> again, no burn in...



never did a break in either and never worried about what I was watching. Not really a gamer but my grandson does come over and occasionally game on it.


----------



## Traxion

Well, perhaps I have a set that is strangely more prone to image retention than the rest. Thankfully, the ghosted images are faint enough where they don't stand out unless you are looking for them, but it's still disappointing, nonetheless.


Oh, and aside from gaming, I pamper my TV and avoid static logos like the plague, so this definitely isn't a matter of abuse. I broke my TV in with D-NICE's regimen with the color slides, and have the "off the shelf" control cal settings plugged into the service menu (complete with the patch to apply the settings to advance mode). I guess I just need to be careful with my gaming sessions and switch over to orbiter mode 2 so that it works while I'm in DOT by DOT (which is what the TV is set to when gaming).


Perhaps the orbiter will smooth out the current burn in by using the same image that caused the issue to theoretically "massage" the area...


----------



## calvin35

Traxion, what picture mode are you using?


----------



## ElectronicTonic

I'm sorry that you have issues with your display.

I don't have a Pioneer plasma, but I do have a Samsung. I also game way too much, but don't have any burn-in. After a 3+hr session I do have some minor IR. If I know I'm going to have a super long gaming session, I just use my LCD. Also, I've been getting into display calibration, and use my plasma for practice. I use still patterns from the AVS HD 709 disk. I've had some pretty long sessions, up to 4hrs. After those sessions I do have some IR, but it fades pretty quick.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Question for those who watch 2.35 : 1 movies (or something with black bars).


Wouldn't it be wise to run slides that, instead of having a uniform color the entire way around, is an inverted 2.35 : 1 picture so that the black (absence of image) is in the middle of the screen, and the varying colors going where the top and bottom black bars normally would be? That way, you're getting that "balance" of sorts. Right?


Or is there something completely off about that theory?


----------



## CalWldLif




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21126774
> 
> 
> Question for those who watch 2.35 : 1 movies (or something with black bars).
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be wise to run slides that, instead of having a uniform color the entire way around, is an inverted 2.35 : 1 picture so that the black (absence of image) is in the middle of the screen, and the varying colors going where the top and bottom black bars normally would be? That way, you're getting that "balance" of sorts. Right?
> 
> 
> Or is there something completely off about that theory?



I edited the slides like you suggested.

Yes, I ran slides with center black and the

top and bottom the colors. for every 1hr of

2.35 to 1 I ran 1/2hr of slides.

This is during the first 1000hrs.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CalWldLif* /forum/post/21129187
> 
> 
> I edited the slides like you suggested.
> 
> Yes, I ran slides with center black and the
> 
> top and bottom the colors. for every 1hr of
> 
> 2.35 to 1 I ran 1/2hr of slides.
> 
> This is during the first 1000hrs.



Would you mind sending/e-mailing me those slides by chance?

[email protected]


----------



## mattydr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mattydr* /forum/post/21048690
> 
> 
> Hi all. Bought a 42" GT25 in July. My wife's favorite channel is TLC, and the stupid logo is burnt in at the moment. Noticed it about two weeks ago, since then she has watched very little, and I have run probably 15-20 hours of football as well as cumulative 2 hours of the screen wipe. It doesn't appear to have faded at all.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty surprised to have encountered this, she doesn't watch more than 7 hours a WEEK, and I have used it plenty for gaming, football, etc. In fact if anything I was worried about getting burn-in from the DKCR HUD, but there is nothing at all there. We watch movies as well.
> 
> 
> Everything I read was that we didn't really need to worry about this unless we were watching one station with a static logo/ticker for many hours a day. I'm sure we got at least 50-75 hours on the TV before we even got cable service at all, and like I said our usage has always been well-mixed. I'm really disappointed about this. Ultimately it's not the end of the world, I don't really notice it unless I look for it, but it's not something that I feel I should have to be dealing with.
> 
> 
> So, besides just venting, I was wondering if there is anything I can do to try to get this logo to fade? I see some people saying this stuff fades with time, others saying they have IR/burn-in that has never gone away. The screen wipe doesn't help much because it only lasts 15 minutes. Any suggestions for something I can leave running over night that could help? I see mention of solid-color slides, will running those continuously over night do me any good? Obviously TV stations are out due to logos . . .
> 
> 
> Anyone had luck with warranty claims with Panasonic over burn-in?
> 
> 
> TIA



Well, I've looked a bit closer and I'm very unhappy with what I've found. I ran some slides of various colors as well as shades of grey, and it turns out I have not JUST the TLC logo burnt in, but ESPN and FOX as well. These three stations certainly represent our "most-watched" channels, but it's not as if we keep it tuned to those three stations only. I do watch football on all the major networks, so I understand that's 3 hours at a sitting. But I'm often jumping around between games, and it's not like it stays on one channel all day - different games, different channels. We watch programming several other channels, (ABC, CBS, misc cable stations, etc) as well as watch movies and play video games. The TLC logo has shown zero signs of fading over the past three weeks despite using the TV plenty and zero TLC. It's such a shame, because I love the picture on this TV. Ugh.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Traxion* /forum/post/21122016
> 
> 
> I have a Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD, and while the picture quality is great, this thing suffers from burn-in issues after even short gaming sessions of 1-2 hours. Everyone spreads around this non-sense about how "modern day plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore," but my experience has shown that to be completely untrue.
> 
> 
> My first encounter with this was about a year ago with the FOX Business channel's static logo on the bottom left of the screen. A couple hours in the morning everyday for a couple weeks (despite several hours of logo free programming for the rest of the day) was all it took to leave a ghosted image on my screen that is still there to this day.
> 
> 
> Now, after playing a new racing game that just came out a couple weeks ago, I have the lap timer and place position that is displayed while racing burned in the top right corner of my screen, despite only playing for a couple hours a night and having plenty of time in the menus between races where the HUD is not displayed. Very disappointing...



Wow that really sucks. I have a Kuro too and I have gamed the same game (a roll player) with bright red health bar for over 8 hours! and no IR what so ever. I wonder how one set can get it so fast and another not. That sucks, sorry to hear about that. I usually game COD for 4 - 5 hours straight every Friday night and no problems.


----------



## Sibilance

Well, according to the service menu, my Panasonic 50GT30 has hit roughly 154 hours of use.


I've found it impossible to avoid playing Batman Arkham City on it, and I initially started seeing some retention of the 'Detective Mode' text from the GUI.


running several hundred National Geographic photographs through the set on the built in randomized Collage slide show (which places photos at random spots on the set, and even a bit off screen,eventually creating a varied massaging of colours) for a few hours while listening to music on my Roku 2 massaged that out easily.


So. I've decided that I can easily live with the degree of image retention this set has even this early in its life.


----------



## JohnnytheSkin

So first time plasma owner here (65VT30) and am in the process of running the "panel prep" slides for the first 100 hours before I use some settings from another forum.


What should I do after this? We normally watch movies (60/40 2.35:1) a few nights per week, I play an hour or two of games per day (not the same game every week or day), and my wife watches a lot of Food Network HD and we have a regime of shows that we try and catch. I also watch sports here or there.


Is this going to be OK? Should I run the "wipe" function after I change viewing activity (after I'm done gaming, after a movie, before I go to bed)? Run the slides every so often with my new settings?


Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I loved the picture in the store with Cinema and THX, dialing in some Pro settings will be even better, and I just don't want to ruin my three thousand dollar TV.


Thanks!


----------



## Iorek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thesalesman* /forum/post/21048584
> 
> 
> I just purchased the GT30 and broke in the set for about 160 hours. Add a month or two of casual watching I was well over the break in point. I just bought Dark Souls and can definitely see image retention on all corners of the screen. It's not really noticeable in casual watching, but if you watch for you can catch it on occasions.



I think I permanently burned the Estus Flask from Dark Souls into my 500M. I even played without the HUD for ~90% of the game. Fortunately it's not noticeable during normal viewing. It only shows up as an ever-so-slightly darker patch of black on an all-black screen. Still hoping it will fade over time, but after ~25 hours of normal full-screen content it hasn't budged. I love plasma, but man I hate having to baby them.


----------



## DavidEC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/12383163
> 
> 
> This thread is for all discussion related to burn in, IR, and break in questions/concerns/info on flat panel TVs. Please post all discussions on this topic in this thread.
> 
> 
> With today's new technologies (2007 and beyond) burn in is nearly non-existence if users use common sense. While still possible, it is highly unlikely if common care is used. A lot of newer TV's (i.e. Pioneer's 8th gen sets) have new technologies that help to also prevent IR. Combined with break in and common care/use, IR can be dramatically reduced if not even eliminated completely.
> 
> 
> This thread is for the Plasma and LCD Flat Panel Displays Forum: there is a SEPARATE thread for RPTV
> 
> 
> Download Break In DVD (SVCD)
> 
> 
> Another good thread for information regarding break-in. Thread is in the Panny section but applies to all plasma's.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14472276



I have tried to read all of the pages..


But has it been determined that it is still a good idea to give the newer 2010/2011 Plasma screens a break-in?? [I have a new set being delivered later this week!]


I currently have a older Toshiba 720P/1080i 40" Plasma and even did everything that I could to give it a break-in, others in the house did not understand and would leave the set on watching 4:3 programming (while I was at work) during the first year of ownership (2006) and causing a slight burn-in on the side images. Now since most stations are now broadcasting in 16:9, I am hoping that I will not have the troubles as before.








avid


----------



## Zeroblade

Yep another plasma newbie has arrived (and thats a good thing I hope)!


So recently a friend convinced me in purchasing a Sammy PN51D8000 to replace my 2008 Sammy 40" LCD. I was able to purchase this thing for $1400 and saw it was the 'best' HDTV to get compared to other Plasmas/LED/LCD. I've read through this as well as other PND8000 related threads in this forum seeking help however.


I didn't look into how to handle plasmas as I was being told "modern day plasmas don't burn in". I learned hard way this is not entirely true as first hours of using my PN51D8000 I was already getting IR from watching news, sports, 4:3 programing etc. I now know this is very bad during this 100-200 break-in period. I already have a dead pixel on my display (I can't tell if it was my fault or just died on own) and have a warranty replacement coming from Samsung thank god. While I wait for the replacement I want to gather experience while I can.


I've downloaded the break-in slides and I do have the time available to run a burn in for 100+ hours. What I'm not sure of however is what settings I should have on the TV while its breaking in. Everything is set to "standard" so cell light is at 10 and contrast is at 90. Don't I need to increase cell light to 15 and contrast down to like 60? Is there anything else I need to be doing?


Like most newbies here, I'm not a videophile but I'm a strong believer in getting most bang for your buck. I will use this PN51D8000 to play Wii/PS3/Xbox, FIOS tv, blu-ray and maybe even some PC use. If I can get better picture and preventing my display to burn out (at no additional cost lol) I will. Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## speed3driver

Sounds like definate burn in, vs. image retention. I had the same problem with my Sammy PN58C8000. Luckily, for me, Samsung authorized a replacement panel for my tv so my screen is new. Cartoon Network logo is what burnt into my screen, most likely by my then in home babysitter. If your panasonic is fairly new, I would contact them and just let them know how upset with the quality of their product you are, they may cave and just replace the panel for you.


----------



## Mannix2106

I have a Panasonic P50S30 and I'm wondering if I have burn in or image retention.


I can see the logos from ESPN and USA on the bottom right of my TV. I've refrained from watching those stations to see if it would go away but it hasn't. I've run the white bar deal that comes on the TV to get rid of image retention/burn in but that didn't work.


Do you guys think that is image retention or burn in? I've been trying to find stations with no logos or transparent logos to help. It just sucks because I bought the TV 4-5 months ago and I can't watch the stations I want to without feeling bad because it will make the logos more noticeable.


----------



## Dathon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speed3driver* /forum/post/21160718
> 
> 
> Sounds like definate burn in, vs. image retention. I had the same problem with my Sammy PN58C8000. Luckily, for me, Samsung authorized a replacement panel for my tv so my screen is new. Cartoon Network logo is what burnt into my screen, most likely by my then in home babysitter. If your panasonic is fairly new, I would contact them and just let them know how upset with the quality of their product you are, they may cave and just replace the panel for you.



Its still surprising that the networks don't alternate their logos from left/right during the broadcast. I saw this happen during a few football games, when they went to break and came back, the logo was on the other side of the screen. It should be a broadcasting standard to alternate logo placement every 1hr or so.


----------



## You a busta CJ

could anyone tell me if this video is a safe alternative way to break in your plasma? The 360 version only, not the ps3. (He starts the break in method at 3:25)







I'm really bad with computers and burning stuff so I wouldn't even know where to begin with Break in slides.


----------



## ron71

Purchased 9 months ago - I thought I followed all the proper break in/etc recommendations, and still use the THX settings. Apparently my son has been watching a lot of 4:3 with the black bars - I now have lighter strips on the left and right side of the picture - not really IR but I guess the phosphors have "aged" more in the middle of the picture than on the outside where black has been displayed?

Is there any way to to fix this or at least reduce? I can see the change in brightness on any solid color/non moving scene and it is driving me crazy. Very depressing since other than that, this is an awesome TV.


----------



## Cal1981




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21089491
> 
> 
> So... it is ill-advised to run my TV for 150 hours non-stop with break-in slides? Basically, I don't want to watch any TV content until I at least reach 150 hours with the slides. Does that mean it might take me a month until I start watching my TV if I'm going to give the television set actual breaks?


The slides have nothing to do with IR or burn in. D-nice has repeated this so many times that I'm surprised that he even bothers to repeat it at this point. In theory, running the slides for 100 hours ages the set's phosphors evenly so that D-nice's picture settings can be used to the best effect (or for a professional calibration). I didn't bother with the slides, was very careful about what I watched on my ST30 for the first 100 hours and still see way too much IR after only brief periods of static images onscreen (i.e. On Demand or DVD menus). I doubt that the slides would have made one bit of difference. My issue is with Panasonic and the engineering of its plasma panels.


----------



## fuzzwah7

Interesting that some of these Pannys get IR and others do not... I have had the P50ST30 for 3 weeks now and my viewing is probably 75% espn/sports and gaming... almost never watch movies, not my thing... other 25% is cable/sat shows. I have experienced zero burn-in or IR even after playing 12 hours of uncharted 3 in a marathon session this weekend... must be the panel lottery coming into play again, by the way I had a June build and had the A-board replaced a week ago for FBr.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cal1981* /forum/post/21171402
> 
> The slides have nothing to do with IR or burn in. D-nice has repeated this so many times that I'm surprised that he even bothers to repeat it at this point. In theory, running the slides for 100 hours ages the set's phosphors evenly so that D-nice's picture settings can be used to the best effect (or for a professional calibration). I didn't bother with the slides, was very careful about what I watched on my ST30 for the first 100 hours and still see way too much IR after only brief periods of static images onscreen (i.e. On Demand or DVD menus). I doubt that the slides would have made one bit of difference. My issue is with Panasonic and the engineering of its plasma panels.



Actually, your statement is incorrect. D-Nice's statement is that the slides are intended for aging the panel to prepare it for applying his reference settings, not for preventing IR. He never actually states that it can't help, just that it's not his intended purpose of people using them to age their sets. The reason for this is simple. If he says the slides help prevent IR and then someone runs them and gets it, then they start whining and blaming him. That doesn't mean they have no effect and considering that you never ran them, you're not exactly in position to comment.


My personal take is you should run the slides and then thoroughly test the set for IR-proneness (especially if you're a gamer or watch a lot of static content) while you're still in the return period. That way if you lose on the panel lottery, you can swap out for a working set. Talking about the panel lottery though, Samsung and LG tend to be even more IR prone than Panasonic for their plasmas. There's even a few unlucky folks who got IR-prone Pioneers, even though vast majority don't have that problem. All manufacturers can put out a few duds, but since it's not covered under warranty you need to test while you can return. Just like LCDs have their own host of potential issues that you need to check while you can return them (backlight bleed, dead pixels, color uniformity, IR [yes they can get it too if you lose on the LCD panel lottery], etc..).


My one last comment is that I prefer webapalooza's 120-slide set that includes more gradations and cycles more frequently (depending how you set them to run), even though it won't line up 1:1 with D-Nice's break-in procedure.


----------



## mbbransc

As someone who is trying to decide between plasma and LED, it's disturbing to find that IR & burn-in are still issues. What percentage of sets still experience problems? Anyone take a guess?


----------



## WireJockey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbbransc* /forum/post/21196192
> 
> 
> As someone who is trying to decide between plasma and LED, it's disturbing to find that IR & burn-in are still issues. What percentage of sets still experience problems? Anyone take a guess?



Yup, it's either flashlights and clouds vs IR and baby sitting...arrrgh!


----------



## Teknomancer

I was thinking of getting a plasma since I read that burn in isn't a problem anymore blah blah.


Thank god I read this thread. Never will I get a plasma since my purpose is gaming. Thank you to avsforums for steering me clear of this disaster known as Plasma (for gaming) even in the year 2011. I guess I have to go back to researching input lag for LCDs.


100+ hours of running something to "prep" your TV? Sigh.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Teknomancer* /forum/post/21210217
> 
> 
> I was thinking of getting a plasma since I read that burn in isn't a problem anymore blah blah.
> 
> 
> Thank god I read this thread. Never will I get a plasma since my purpose is gaming. Thank you to avsforums for steering me clear of this disaster known as Plasma (for gaming) even in the year 2011. I guess I have to go back to researching input lag for LCDs.
> 
> 
> 100+ hours of running something to "prep" your TV? Sigh.



If you get a very bright LCD and lose out on the panel lottery, you can get IR as well. I've seen it actually. If you're spending a lot on a tv, you owe it to yourself to check it out thoroughly instead of just assuming everything will be ok and then be unable to return it. This goes for LCD or Plasma. Neither cover BI under warranty.


Many commercial *LCD*s actually have anti-burn in tech just like plasma because they're aware it can be a problem and the people (or rather companies) buying them usually check on these things. For consumer displays, LCD manufacturers are happy if you drink their kool-aid.


----------



## Teknomancer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21210305
> 
> 
> If you get a very bright LCD and lose out on the panel lottery, you can get IR as well. I've seen it actually. If you're spending a lot on a tv, you owe it to yourself to *check it out thoroughly* instead of just assuming everything will be ok and then be unable to return it. This goes for LCD or Plasma. Neither cover BI under warranty.
> 
> 
> Many commercial *LCD*s actually have anti-burn in tech just like plasma because they're aware it can be a problem and the people (or rather companies) buying them usually check on these things. For consumer displays, LCD manufacturers are happy if you drink their kool-aid.



Hmm.. How can I check? I can only go by researching what other customers have said on the internet. In the stores where I can buy it, how can I test if I get burn-in or not after say 4 or 5 hours of gaming? No stores here really would entertain someone hogging on of their plasma displays with hours of testing.


Or is there some other way to test?


I -do- do a lot of research and reading before buying. I'll be MORE than happy to get a Plasma for my gaming needs (because I don't have to worry about input lag nonsense with LCDs) and if I don't have to "prep" it for 100 to 200 hours before I can even play a game without being scared about burning it in. I wouldn't mind spending extra for a particular model that i know works "out-of-the-box" and is well suited for gaming.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Teknomancer* /forum/post/21210524
> 
> 
> Hmm.. How can I check? I can only go by researching what other customers have said on the internet. In the stores where I can buy it, how can I test if I get burn-in or not after say 4 or 5 hours of gaming? No stores here really would entertain someone hogging on of their plasma displays with hours of testing.
> 
> 
> Or is there some other way to test?
> 
> 
> I -do- do a lot of research and reading before buying. I'll be MORE than happy to get a Plasma for my gaming needs (because I don't have to worry about input lag nonsense with LCDs) and if I don't have to "prep" it for 100 to 200 hours before I can even play a game without being scared about burning it in. I wouldn't mind spending extra for a particular model that i know works "out-of-the-box" and is well suited for gaming.



Sorry, I left out a few words there. I meant to say that you should thoroughly check out your display once you buy it for defects, regardless of LCD or plasma. There's plenty of problems defective sets can have and if you're spending more than $500 on a set, you owe it to yourself to check/test them thoroughly within the return window - even if you shouldn't have to. It's a hassle we shouldn't have to deal with, but if you want to be more confident in your set it's worthwhile to do so. LCD's don't typically benefit from break-in procedures due to the type of tech they are, but you should still check them thoroughly for any signs of being IR prone.


I had a high-end LCD that was IR prone unless I turned down the brightness. It lasted for several years before having major issues with the screen (odd-shaped streaks that didn't appear to have any direct bearing on the content viewed). Given how easily it could get IR if I turned up the brightness I really can't help but feel that probably was a big contributing factor. I'd drunk the kool-aid and assumed LCD's can't get retention, but it's simply not true. And even when I saw it I assumed that because it was LCD it wouldn't be a problem as long as I turned down the brightness and that was a mistake. I've also seen a number of other LCDs that have a few years on them that've gotten IR of various forms. I think part of why people assume they can't get it is that a lot of people who buy LCD's are the same people who assume newer is always better and are frequent upgraders (which means they keep sets for a shorter period of time).


Be it LCD or plasma, check out whatever display you get thoroughly while you're in the return window. Most sets should be fairly resilient to IR these days, but there's still the panel lottery and you want to find out if you got a junker while you can return it. Also, I'm now proactive with pushing slideshow wallpapers on pc instead of static ones and always having the screen turn off when not in use. You think logos or HUD's are bad, come back once you've got your desktop wallpaper stuck on your LCD screen.


----------



## Teknomancer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21211749
> 
> 
> Sorry, I left out a few words there. I meant to say that you should thoroughly check out your display once you buy it for defects, regardless of LCD or plasma. There's plenty of problems defective sets can have and if you're spending more than $500 on a set, you owe it to yourself to check/test them thoroughly within the return window - even if you shouldn't have to. It's a hassle we shouldn't have to deal with, but if you want to be more confident in your set it's worthwhile to do so. LCD's don't typically benefit from break-in procedures due to the type of tech they are, but you should still check them thoroughly for any signs of being IR prone.
> 
> 
> I had a high-end LCD that was IR prone unless I turned down the brightness. It lasted for several years before having major issues with the screen (odd-shaped streaks that didn't appear to have any direct bearing on the content viewed). Given how easily it could get IR if I turned up the brightness I really can't help but feel that probably was a big contributing factor. I'd drunk the kool-aid and assumed LCD's can't get retention, but it's simply not true. And even when I saw it I assumed that because it was LCD it wouldn't be a problem as long as I turned down the brightness and that was a mistake. I've also seen a number of other LCDs that have a few years on them that've gotten IR of various forms. I think part of why people assume they can't get it is that a lot of people who buy LCD's are the same people who assume newer is always better and are frequent upgraders (which means they keep sets for a shorter period of time).
> 
> 
> Be it LCD or plasma, check out whatever display you get thoroughly while you're in the return window. Most sets should be fairly resilient to IR these days, but there's still the panel lottery and you want to find out if you got a junker while you can return it. Also, I'm now proactive with pushing slideshow wallpapers on pc instead of static ones and always having the screen turn off when not in use. You think logos or HUD's are bad, come back once you've got your desktop wallpaper stuck on your LCD screen.



Fair enough points. I'm usually very careful with taking care of my electronics but how would one objectively check for such IR errors? Do I have to stare REALLY close at the pixels on the screen to look for pixel-wise errors or are there some tools that somehow shows up such errors?


----------



## ElectronicTonic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Teknomancer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough points. I'm usually very careful with taking care of my electronics but how would one objectively check for such IR errors? Do I have to stare REALLY close at the pixels on the screen to look for pixel-wise errors or are there some tools that somehow shows up such errors?



Green is the easiest color to see IR with, IMO.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Teknomancer* /forum/post/21213722
> 
> 
> Fair enough points. I'm usually very careful with taking care of my electronics but how would one objectively check for such IR errors? Do I have to stare REALLY close at the pixels on the screen to look for pixel-wise errors or are there some tools that somehow shows up such errors?



Run through color slides, not automated like you would for break-in slides, but manually slide at a time. Hooking up via pc is preferable since it's usually quicker/easier to navigate but either way will do. Plasma usually green or black screens show retention earliest, but you should check all colors. On LCDs, it's usually grays or whites where retention shows up first. In either case, cycle through all the slides and see if you see anything.


Also, if you plan on gaming heavily or watching a lot of channels with static logos etc.. make sure you run through its paces to see how it handles that kind of content. The break-in slides for plasma are good in this respect because you can use them to quickly get through a couple hundred hours (during which many sets are more IR prone - even if it's just ghosting - than they are after that) so you can tell easier if any tendency towards IR with real content is lessening or staying the same/getting worse if it exists.


----------



## denodan

Why is it with Plasma there is this myth of a break in period?


There was never the issue with CRT, both use phosphere.


No one said about break in periods for CRT's yet also suffered from IR which would go.


Never broke mine in played video games, watched movies, no problems, but always by nature turn my brightness down below 50% anyway.


The only thing I noticed was I did have IR, but never lasted.


No one ever said CRT's needed a break in period, so what makes Plasma any different? Both almost use the same idea. CRT was analog and used Phoshere just like Plasma whereas Plasma is digtal, but both use a common screen type.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *denodan* /forum/post/21218369
> 
> 
> Why is it with Plasma there is this myth of a break in period?
> 
> 
> There was never the issue with CRT, both use phosphere.
> 
> 
> No one said about break in periods for CRT's yet also suffered from IR which would go.
> 
> 
> Never broke mine in played video games, watched movies, no problems, but always by nature turn my brightness down below 50% anyway.
> 
> 
> The only thing I noticed was I did have IR, but never lasted.
> 
> 
> No one ever said CRT's needed a break in period, so what makes Plasma any different? Both almost use the same idea. CRT was analog and used Phoshere just like Plasma whereas Plasma is digtal, but both use a common screen type.



CRT's were a lot dimmer than plasmas are and not everyone turns their brightness down below 50%. Also, simply something using the same core materials doesn't mean the way they use them is 1:1. Specifically the reason people like to break-in their sets is to age the panels uniformly during the hot period to then apply standardized settings once their set has stabilized a little. Some people also like to do this because the phosphors in PDP's decay the most when they're fresh and the curve levels off dramatically so the early period is when they're changing the most. Some people like to run break-in during this period for the purpose of simply getting further along that curve so they're less likely to get permanent IR during it and hopefully not have to worry about it (at least as much).


CRTs varied from set to set just like plasma or LCD in terms of IR susceptibility . I've seen a number of CRT's with IR when they were more common and like I said before, they don't usually even get that bright. Plasmas generally have gotten much better about resisting IR, but there's still a chance and also the individual panel lottery (each set is a little different despite being same brand/model).


If people are using break-in to try and prevent IR it is mainly to prevent it during the hottest period when it's most likely to get it - down the road content watched will matter much more. Some also use it to quickly get some hours on the unit so they can see any defects that develop while in return period so they can get it replaced. And again others do it for color uniformity to apply standardized settings.


It should not be considered necessary, but there are good reasons why it may be considered useful - especially if you bought an expensive PDP rather than a cheapo toss-away.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DavidEC* /forum/post/21152215
> 
> 
> I have tried to read all of the pages..
> 
> 
> But has it been determined that it is still a good idea to give the newer 2010/2011 Plasma screens a break-in?? [I have a new set being delivered later this week!]
> 
> 
> I currently have a older Toshiba 720P/1080i 40" Plasma and even did everything that I could to give it a break-in, others in the house did not understand and would leave the set on watching 4:3 programming (while I was at work) during the first year of ownership (2006) and causing a slight burn-in on the side images. Now since most stations are now broadcasting in 16:9, I am hoping that I will not have the troubles as before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avid



I still feel it is good to run the break in not to help with IR etc. but to get the panel some even usage so that you can then re-calibrate it. I've seen numerous sets that people calibrate them right out of the box, and then not to long after that the settings need to be changed. The biggest thing for me is I want ALL the cells to be used evenly so I can accurately calibrate the set. If you immediately begin watching letter box content those cells are not used like the rest of the set in mu opinion (unless you use gray bars or something). I would rater uniformly use the set and the calibrate it.


----------



## ReedsAle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21243742
> 
> 
> I still feel it is good to run the break in not to help with IR etc. but to get the panel some even usage so that you can then re-calibrate it. I've seen numerous sets that people calibrate them right out of the box, and then not to long after that the settings need to be changed. The biggest thing for me is I want ALL the cells to be used evenly so I can accurately calibrate the set. If you immediately begin watching letter box content those cells are not used like the rest of the set in mu opinion (unless you use gray bars or something). I would rater uniformly use the set and the calibrate it.



Would it be a good idea to run the color slides out of the box for 100hrs, adjust the settings (D-Nice settings), and then run the break in DVD?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ReedsAle* /forum/post/21244926
> 
> 
> Would it be a good idea to run the color slides out of the box for 100hrs, adjust the settings (D-Nice settings), and then run the break in DVD?



You are loosing valuable time with your precious new TV. I would just watch full screen content for the first 100 hours, no letter bars (top AND side) stretch all content if you have to and avoid the same logo, etc. in the same spot for the first 100 hours. THEN I would calibrate it, use D-Nice's settings, then adjust to your personal preference. I would re-adjust the settings after a few months and then a year as most sets seem to change after time.


I would highly recommend a good calibtration DVD/Blu-Ray. They are soooo easy to use and some even come with colored filters to use for the tint/color. They are not that expensive. This will let you dial the set into more of what you personnally feel is best as not everyone will want their set exactly to what D-nice has just because everyone is different. But his settings are a great starting point. The calibration DVD lets you fine tune the set over the course of the sets life. And then you can use the settings for starting points for other inputs (e.g. the cable/satellite).


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21245038
> 
> 
> You are loosing valuable time with your precious new TV. I would just watch full screen content for the first 100 hours, no letter bars (top AND side) stretch all content if you have to and avoid the same logo, etc. in the same spot for the first 100 hours. THEN I would calibrate it, use D-Nice's settings, then adjust to your personal preference. I would re-adjust the settings after a few months and then a year as most sets seem to change after time.
> 
> 
> I would highly recommend a good calibtration DVD/Blu-Ray. They are soooo easy to use and some even come with colored filters to use for the tint/color. They are not that expensive. This will let you dial the set into more of what you personnally feel is best as not everyone will want their set exactly to what D-nice has just because everyone is different. But his settings are a great starting point. The calibration DVD lets you fine tune the set over the course of the sets life. And then you can use the settings for starting points for other inputs (e.g. the cable/satellite).



Yes,i fully agree with what you have said !


----------



## bal1985

I just bought a LG 50PV450 Television - 50" Class 1080P Plasma TV, its only 2 days old. What do I need to do to break my TV in properly? I heard that I could leave my PS3 on overnight while it plays music to break my TV in? Also, what is calibration mean? I keep reading that once you get a new TV, you first break it in then calibrate it? I'm new to all this so I have no clue what I'm doing. I do have a 2 year old son so my TV is usually on a good amount of time every day.


Oh, and I was watching TNT tonight for maybe 45 minutes and when I switched channels I noticed that the TNT logo seemed to be burned into the screen, it almost looked 3D. It seemed to go away once I used that "color wash" setting from the menu screen. Is this normal for a TV only 2 days old and will this be happening a lot? Should I worry about this?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bal1985* /forum/post/21263121
> 
> 
> I just bought a LG 50PV450 Television - 50" Class 1080P Plasma TV, its only 2 days old. What do I need to do to break my TV in properly? I heard that I could leave my PS3 on overnight while it plays music to break my TV in? Also, what is calibration mean? I keep reading that once you get a new TV, you first break it in then calibrate it? I'm new to all this so I have no clue what I'm doing. I do have a 2 year old son so my TV is usually on a good amount of time every day.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I was watching TNT tonight for maybe 45 minutes and when I switched channels I noticed that the TNT logo seemed to be burned into the screen, it almost looked 3D. It seemed to go away once I used that "color wash" setting from the menu screen. Is this normal for a TV only 2 days old and will this be happening a lot? Should I worry about this?



I would break in the TV by watching normal TV, enjoy your set. Just use common sense and for the first few days make sure you don't leave on CNN with a constant color for hours and hours and avoid bars on the top/bottom/sides. Watch regular TV is just as good as using your PS3 or something else.


Calibrating is really just adjusting the settings on the TV (brightness, contrast, color, tint, etc.) to what you think looks best. They sell some calibration DVDs (or blu-ray) that walks you through the steps and will have you do things like turn your brightness up until you can just see the third image and not the 4th, etc. so help get it to what it should be. But even then, you should fine tune it to your liking since every person is different. You might like things more red or less bright, etc. If you use the DVD you are still going to want to make fine tunnings and adjustments so it looks the best to your eyes.


I am not familiar with LG TVs, sorry, can't really comment on them if this is normal. I have a Pioneer Plasma and I have gamed the same game for 8+ hours with a constant HUD that NEVER went away execpt for loading screens and never once had an image stay on the screen, ever. This is with the Pioneer's orbiter turned on.


----------



## mryoung

Is the pixel orbiter disengaged in THX mode in the VT30? If true does this mean THX mode should not be used when breaking in a new set? I thought the pixel orbiter should be left on at all times. Very confusing since everyone writes about watching in THX mode.


----------



## mlauenstein

I am using the slides right now to burn-in my new plasma (50" Panasonic TCP50ST30).


Can someone tell me what the cross-hatched pattern is that I see when the slides play? It's most noticeable on the greens. I don't think this is in the slides themselves because I don't see them when I look at them on my computer. I don't think they are in my head because they don't move when I move my eyes. The pattern appears in a lighter shade than the slide itself and is made up of a grid with squares of about 1.5 inches.


Is this a pattern that is in my display from the factory? I don't really see it when I play a DVD or watch TV, but then again, the randomness of the colours is probably masking it.


Is it something I need to worry about or is this normal?


Could I be seeing a pattern due to the wires BEHIND the glass?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Semp1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mryoung* /forum/post/21281447
> 
> 
> Is the pixel orbiter disengaged in THX mode in the VT30? If true does this mean THX mode should not be used when breaking in a new set? I thought the pixel orbiter should be left on at all times. Very confusing since everyone writes about watching in THX mode.



I noticed this too but you definitely should not use THX. You wanna make sure the screen is completely filled and since THX is full pixel it might leave a little spot unfilled.


----------



## hungro

Hello there. I have a ghost image in the top right hand corner visible of a full white screen, slightly dark of the video input label HDMI1/DVI the one that pops up showing you what video input your currently in after pressing the MENU button. I had the static image on for many hours over many days used during calibration sessions, trying different settings out etc. I didn't exit out of the Menu which caused this image to stick. I read a post about doing an inverse of the image with a watermark black background , red, blue and green. I am not knowledgeable in using image editing software or what was mentioned in that post. Is there anyone that is willing to make such patterns to help a fellow plasma guy out?


----------



## Psyclonami

I'm scared that a plasma tv I was thinking of getting would get burn-in. I'll try and leave it running for a few days just to help. Though I want to play games on it right away haha.


----------



## 47crrc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mryoung* /forum/post/21281447
> 
> 
> Is the pixel orbiter disengaged in THX mode in the VT30? If true does this mean THX mode should not be used when breaking in a new set? I thought the pixel orbiter should be left on at all times. Very confusing since everyone writes about watching in THX mode.



Go to aspect adjustments and change the HD size to size 1. I think this automatically changes the THX mode to enable.


----------



## LanceX

Samsung 5 Series Slide Age Settings


Im using d nice evangelo slides to age my samsung 59d550. What settings do I use?


Standard - Dynamic or Movie?


cell light 20?


contrast 100?

Color 75?

Brightness 50?


etc


----------



## Cypherus21

I developed image burn in of a network logo on my D6900 (D6500 version in Canada). I broke in the TV for 200 hours using the PS3 music visual player (option 2 with streaming waves of red, green, blue, white, black colors). Seems that breaking in your Plasma does not guarantee anything but wasted electricity.


Every morning before I headed to work these past couple weeks, I watched the morning news on Global for about 10 minutes just to catch the weather. Doing that for 5 days a week for two weeks was enough to cause the "Global" logo to burn in on my screen. After using Samsung's built in side scrolling feature for 60 hours, and running the PS3 visual music player (option 2 with colorful streaming graphics) for about 48 hours, the image is still there (about 20% transparency on a white/grey shade). I tried inverted slides but to no avail.


I think Plasma technology is fundamentally flawed. I can't even watch network TV out of fear of further image burn in (might as well cancel my HD cable). And I know my PS3 will never see a video game in its life so long as it's connected to that TV. Image burn in is not covered by Samsung warranty and in my opinion, watching network TV falls within reasonable viewing parameters. I've only had the set for 6 months and barely used. I've mentally concluded that I lost $1,500 on this set.


I'd rather have flash-lighting and bad off angle viewing of an LED - at least I can use the TV for what it was designed for...


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cypherus21* /forum/post/21299905
> 
> 
> I developed image burn in of a network logo on my D6900 (D6500 version in Canada). I broke in the TV for 200 hours using the PS3 music visual player (option 2 with streaming waves of red, green, blue, white, black colors). Seems that breaking in your Plasma does not guarantee anything but wasted electricity.


_Well Daid !_


----------



## Psyclonami

I just bought a Panasonic Plasma 42" Full HD 3D TV. It's going to be used strictly for gaming and I do not have any TV to burn it in. I'm going to use that Burn In DVD ( http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa...nload_main.htm ) for about 100 hours+ and I will lower the settings to 50 contrast and brightness and remove that vivid (torch) mode setting thing. Is this alright?


I'm scared I will get the Image Retention since it's mentioned in the book and I want to break in my TV before I play games on it.


I won't be using the TV for another 11 Days because I'm moving house and I'm using my perfectly good LCD for the moment.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cypherus21* /forum/post/21299905
> 
> 
> I developed image burn in of a network logo on my D6900 (D6500 version in Canada). I broke in the TV for 200 hours using the PS3 music visual player (option 2 with streaming waves of red, green, blue, white, black colors). Seems that breaking in your Plasma does not guarantee anything but wasted electricity.



I don't know that waves of colors actually helps much to encourage uniformity. When I had IR on my LCD (yes LCD), those kind of patterns did nothing, but color slides did help. Obv. different tech but the core problem is basically the same - high local contrast between two areas of the screen. Displaying uniform slides will generally be much better for encouraging uniformity than something that's higher contrast.



> Quote:
> I think Plasma technology is fundamentally flawed. I can't even watch network TV out of fear of further image burn in (might as well cancel my HD cable). And I know my PS3 will never see a video game in its life so long as it's connected to that TV. Image burn in is not covered by Samsung warranty and in my opinion, watching network TV falls within reasonable viewing parameters. I've only had the set for 6 months and barely used. I've mentally concluded that I lost $1,500 on this set.



Then you think wrong. I've had no trouble with my plasma but a variety of issues with some of the LCD's I've owned. You may try lower contrast or power save settings and see if it helps. Also, despite the samsung fanboys it does seem like there's a higher occurrence of defective sets that get IR from them than others.



> Quote:
> I'd rather have flash-lighting and bad off angle viewing of an LED - at least I can use the TV for what it was designed for...



You can still get IR/BI with LCD and unless you're getting a commercial set, it probably won't have anti-IR features like a plasma does. There's no hard and fast rule about whether a specific set will or won't get IR, but if you want to game it's a good idea to do the break-in and then spend some serious time on it w/in return period to see if it has IR trouble or not. This goes for LCD or plasma. IMO IR is a manufacturing defect that LCD and plasma manufacturers don't want to admit - and neither of them cover it. FTF, see about getting an extended warranty that covers it. I think some people have stated they've gotten bestbuy (of all places) to honor under extended warranty plans.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Psyclonami* /forum/post/21303378
> 
> 
> I just bought a Panasonic Plasma 42" Full HD 3D TV. It's going to be used strictly for gaming and I do not have any TV to burn it in. I'm going to use that Burn In DVD ( http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa...nload_main.htm ) for about 100 hours+ and I will lower the settings to 50 contrast and brightness and remove that vivid (torch) mode setting thing. Is this alright?
> 
> 
> I'm scared I will get the Image Retention since it's mentioned in the book and I want to break in my TV before I play games on it.
> 
> 
> I won't be using the TV for another 11 Days because I'm moving house and I'm using my perfectly good LCD for the moment.



How long is your return period? Unless you got a killer deal, I would return it and rebuy when you've moved and will have time to run the slides and test it out thoroughly. The more time I spend here, the more it seems like people who get IR are the ones who are unlucky and get the unspoken manufacturing defect that companies won't admit or cover. You still need to exercise sensible viewing habits after that, just like with old CRTs or LCDs, but you should really put a set through its paces within the return period to see if it's getting IR or not. If it is, exchange it till you get one that doesn't get it.


----------



## Cypherus21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21303715
> 
> 
> I don't know that waves of colors actually helps much to encourage uniformity. When I had IR on my LCD (yes LCD), those kind of patterns did nothing, but color slides did help. Obv. different tech but the core problem is basically the same - high local contrast between two areas of the screen. Displaying uniform slides will generally be much better for encouraging uniformity than something that's higher contrast.



Thanks for the insight. I have been running the break in slides for about 36 hours straight and I see some improvement in the image retention being washed away (actually, you can only now notice the network logo under a specific level of white shading and the average person would have to look hard enough to find it). I can concur with your opinion that the break in slides are better for producing uniformity of phosphor aging than using alternative forms of breaking in (i.e. PS3 visual music player) given the improvement in my image retention being washed away in a much faster time using the slides. I will run the slides all week until I get about 100 hours on them and hopefully the burn-in would be gone enough so I wouldn't worry about it.


It is true that many manufacturers will have Plasma's with a higher propensity for IR than other models. But that is because the problem lies within the technology itself. Seemingly, the IR or what you think may be burn-in might go away with time. It is just the nature of Plasmas.


CNET covers the issue of burn-in pretty well:
*

Our video guru, Senior Editor David Katzmaier, says the potential for burn-in is greatest during the first 100 or so hours of use, "during which time you should keep contrast low (less than 50 percent) and avoid showing static images or letterbox bars on the screen for hours at a time." He personally has a three-year-old 50-inch plasma at home and notices that, after his wife watches the TV in the 4:3 mode (with black bars on either side of the image) for hours on end with no widescreen shows, he sometimes detects those after-images of the bars. But they quickly go away when he watches material that fills the whole screen (or he convinces her to use the gray bars).*

*"I just don't worry about it," he says. "Yeah, you can get some image retention once in awhile if you look hard enough after hours of static images, but even then it's temporary, not permanent."*


----------



## DELTAsnake

I'm getting my first ever plasma this week, a Samsung D8000. I have read that Samsung said a couple of years ago that a break in period is not needed anymore. I do plan to be careful for the first 100 hours or so, but can I get away with not running the break in disk? I would prefer to watch movies, TV shows and play games, not watch the changing colors of the break in disk.


EDIT: Mine is a plasma unlike the below post. PS51D8000.


----------



## rajnikant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DELTAsnake* /forum/post/21306485
> 
> 
> I'm getting my first ever plasma this week, a Samsung D8000. I have read that Samsung said a couple of years ago that a break in period is not needed anymore. I do plan to be careful for the first 100 hours or so, but can I get away with not running the break in disk? I would prefer to watch movies, TV shows and play games, not watch the changing colors of the break in disk.



I am in same boat. I have just ordered Samsung UN64D8000. I also wanna know what should I be doing for first 100hrs? Can anyone also explain what is Break In? I am all new to this kind of stuff. I came across this forum while i was searching for new tv. I decided to go with Sammy D8000 over Pana VT30. Should I take any extra step to make experience perfect?


Any Advice will be helpful. Thanks


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rajnikant* /forum/post/21306529
> 
> 
> I am in same boat. I have just ordered Samsung UN64D8000. I also wanna know what should I be doing for first 100hrs? Can anyone also explain what is Break In? I am all new to this kind of stuff. I came across this forum while i was searching for new tv. I decided to go with Sammy D8000 over Pana VT30. Should I take any extra step to make experience perfect?
> 
> 
> Any Advice will be helpful. Thanks



You're not a plasma screen. You should be okay.


----------



## rajnikant

It is Plasma 8000 series. I decided to go with plasma after reading lot of good things about it here. lol


----------



## Bacchanalia

I have researched for hours and can't find the exact answer to what I'm looking for. I have a Samsung PN59D550, am running the break in slides and am using Slingbox's basic settings. I have about 15 hours on it now with plenty more to go. Are the following settings adequate?


Picture Mode: Movie

Cell Light: 18

Contrast: 47

Brightness: 47

Sharpness: 0

Color: 50

Tint (G/R): G50/R50


Black Tone: Off

Dynamic Contrast: Off

Gamma: 0

RGB Only Mode: Off

Color Space: Auto

White Balance: All at 25 out of 50

Flesh Tone: 0

Edge Enhancement: Off

Motion Lighting: Off


Color Tone: Warm2

Digital Noise Filter: Off

MPEG Noise Filter: Off

HDMI Black Level: Normal

Film Mode: Off


Thank you ahead of time for your input. Also, not looking for any advice that I don't need to break in the tv.


----------



## LanceX

im running Standard 100 contrast 50 bright 75 color with d nice slides and cool.


It ages it quicker the higher contrast or something like that.

I game/watch in movie mode but I figured doing the slides in Standard makes more sense because that is the "normal" mode for the colors


----------



## adoseofpain

Hey all. I plan to exchange my Sharp Aquos LED 60 inch tv for a 60 inch LG Plasma this friday. While the Aquos is absolutely amazing, the input lag puts me off when I game.


I have read a lot of the image retention and being careful, but I am an avid gamer and plan to use this for games a lot. I think I am up to the task for caring for a plasma, since similar care is needed to take care of my 1300 dollar headphones.


Is there anything I should know before the weekend and I get my first Plasma?


----------



## HongE81

I have a question before starting my break in process. Instead of using the break in dvd, why cant you just use the scrolling option under IR prevention for the 1st 200 hours? What am I missing here? Sorry if this has already been discussed.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HongE81* /forum/post/21311887
> 
> 
> I have a question before starting my break in process. Instead of using the break in dvd, why cant you just use the scrolling option under IR prevention for the 1st 200 hours? What am I missing here? Sorry if this has already been discussed.



You want to age the phosphors evenly with the entire color spectrum. The break-in slides use the entire hex code color scale. The scrolling option will only hit the grayscale.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cypherus21* /forum/post/21306309
> 
> 
> CNET covers the issue of burn-in pretty well:
> *
> 
> Our video guru, Senior Editor David Katzmaier, says the potential for burn-in is greatest during the first 100 or so hours of use, "during which time you should keep contrast low (less than 50 percent) and avoid showing static images or letterbox bars on the screen for hours at a time." He personally has a three-year-old 50-inch plasma at home and notices that, after his wife watches the TV in the 4:3 mode (with black bars on either side of the image) for hours on end with no widescreen shows, he sometimes detects those after-images of the bars. But they quickly go away when he watches material that fills the whole screen (or he convinces her to use the gray bars).*
> 
> *"I just don't worry about it," he says. "Yeah, you can get some image retention once in awhile if you look hard enough after hours of static images, but even then it's temporary, not permanent."*



That's just a kind of general statement about IR. More correct is that aging curve for the phosphors slopes down sharply from when a set is fresh. So actually it ages quickest in that time period, but it's not like there's a flip switch for "this time period is good"/"this time period is bad". I ran slides for 150-200 hours I think. I also run my set in power save mode and I was really worried about gaming so I didn't do it at all the first 1-1.5k hours. I now game regularly with no problems to speak of. I don't watch TV though. Only movies and games on it. From reading about plasmas and keeping an eye on avs plasma section somewhat regularly over the past 3-ish years, I really do think at this point it comes down to individual sets moreso than the tech itself. Like I said, I got IR on an LCD so neither tech is immune. Commercial LCD's have anti-IR tech since owners usually keep them longer. For consumer LCD's they usually don't bother because they're cheaper and they figure people will be upgrading in a few years anyway.



> Quote:
> Thanks for the insight. I have been running the break in slides for about 36 hours straight and I see some improvement in the image retention being washed away (actually, you can only now notice the network logo under a specific level of white shading and the average person would have to look hard enough to find it). I can concur with your opinion that the break in slides are better for producing uniformity of phosphor aging than using alternative forms of breaking in (i.e. PS3 visual music player) given the improvement in my image retention being washed away in a much faster time using the slides. I will run the slides all week until I get about 100 hours on them and hopefully the burn-in would be gone enough so I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> 
> It is true that many manufacturers will have Plasma's with a higher propensity for IR than other models. But that is because the problem lies within the technology itself. Seemingly, the IR or what you think may be burn-in might go away with time. It is just the nature of Plasmas.



There are some solid, solid technical posts on avs about image retention/bi. I don't remember the threads off-hand, but maybe someone can link to them if they have it bookmarked. There's basically 3 kinds of IR. For the most part permanent IR is no longer and issue. Temporary IR is more common, although it can be hard to tell the difference for a particularly bad case. I would not say it's inherent to the technology, but low-quality manufacturing. You very rarely hear about IR in connection with kuros because they had very tight quality control. Anyway, if you want to learn more, I suggest you look up the old posts when you have time.


LCD's on the other hand, there's a lot of speculation about the causes or IR, but I never saw anything concrete like the posts from xrox and some others here about plasma. When I had IR on the LCD, nearly everything I found denied that it exists and people who posted about it would usually get belittled by insecure owners who'd rather blame people than poor manufacturing. You have to go to the owners threads where people post issues they're having with sets. Often cheap LCD's can get that issue after a few years, but can happen on higher end ones too. Mine was an ultrasharp monitor that eventually got replaced. Basically, it started getting IR from normal PC use so I then started turning the brightness down to min (still quite bright) and proactively avoiding static content on it. However, it still would get IR if I had it unplugged a while and the brightness reset (and I didn't immediately remember to adjust it down). The final straw was that the liquid in the panel itself started running down in the form of dark streaks that wouldn't go away. Well actually they would go away briefly by setting the panel horizontally for a while and then it'd be good for maybe 15 minutes - found that out when I was getting it ready to ship back. When it was getting just the IR, color slides helped get rid of it when it happened. When the liquid started running w/in the screen, they did not.


The point is you can have major problems with either plasma or LCD if you get a bad apple. They both have potential for IR or other similar/different set-crippling issues with the screen. I would not say it's inherent to plasma tech or LCD tech itself. It's inherent to poor manufacturing, although I suppose a case could also be made for sets having very high contrast/brightness regardless of if they're LCD or plasma. Regardless, it's important to put the blame where it's due - manufacturing and quality control. Manufacturers get away with not honoring warranties for IR because they claim it's inherent and that people need to be careful. That's true to an extent for either LCD or plasma, but when people start saying "it's inherent to the tech" - it's just the equivalent of saying "I'm not going to hold the manufacturer to their warranty to make them fix a defect in my screen" or else that someone already tried and just got stonewalled by poor customer service/warranty policy and feels helpless. There's plenty of people on here who abuse their sets regularly and never get any hint of IR. It comes down to luck of the draw in the panel lottery. People need to change their thinking so they aren't letting manufacturers get off the hook by blaming their manufacturing/qc problems on the tech itself.


----------



## dlplover

Check out this thread as a good start: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=923245 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post16164661 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrox* /forum/post/16163184
> 
> 
> To add to what Randy posted:
> 
> 
> Burn-In, Image retention, image sticking, image ghosting, residual image....etc are all terminology that is constanly interchanged even though there are several mechanisms involved.
> 
> 
> Here is a list of the actual mechanisms that I know of in order of probability (most probable first)
> 
> *1 - phosphorescence* - there is a long afterglow component of phosphors that can be seen even when the display is off. It is very very faint however and eventually dissipates.
> 
> *2 - Residual charge* - Plasma displays use dielectric charges to control the on or off states of the pixel. If there is a slight residual charge left when the pixel is turned off the next time it turns on the pixel will be slightly brighter than normal. This will show up as a ghost image on a dark screen. You can tell it is residual charge because the ghost image is slightly brighter than the dark background. This ghost image is transient and easily removed by either a full white screen or watching full screen material for a few hours.
> 
> *3 - MgO Sputtering* - High energy discharge in Plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels. The result is a long lasting ghost image that can take many days to remove. It can be seen as a slightly darker image on a full white screen. Ironically, a full white screen for many hours is the best course of action to resolve this issue as it normalizes the deposition of MgO to all pixels (evens it out)
> 
> *4 - Phosphor aging* - Permanent aging of the phosphor material that causes a slightly darker ghost image that is irreversible.



If I can find the one with charts and graphs, I'll repost that as well.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21311930
> 
> 
> You want to age the phosphors evenly with the entire color spectrum. The break-in slides use the entire hex code color scale. The scrolling option will only hit the grayscale.



The break-in color slides are a completely pointless procedure. As XROX has mentioned here many times, modern plasmas no longer exhibit that "very" aggressive wear period in the first 100 hrs. What ever does remain isn't worth worrying about, especially considering that modern plasmas have a 100,000 hr half life today. Any color variances that occur not using the slides will NEVER be able to be seen with a human set of eye balls.


For the 1,000 time, if someone wants to be cautious with their new plasma that's fine. All you have to do:


1) Lower your contrast for the first 100 hrs and limit opaque graphics, logos and black bar content for long periods of time.


Or


2) put up a 100% white slide in vivid mode with 100% contrast for some time to age the panel evenly; if even aging is your priority. The break-in color slides method is all placebo effect.


----------



## LanceX

@nyfan


Whats the difference in using slides then one white slide that you suggest? I use color slides at 100 contrast.


It does same as ur suggestion if not bettet


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan* /forum/post/21317348
> 
> 
> The break-in color slides are a completely pointless procedure. As XROX has mentioned here many times, modern plasmas no longer exhibit that "very" aggressive wear period in the first 100 hrs. What ever does remain isn't worth worrying about, especially considering that modern plasmas have a 100,000 hr half life today. Any color variances that occur not using the slides will NEVER be able to be seen with a human set of eye balls.
> 
> 
> For the 1,000 time, if someone wants to be cautious with their new plasma that's fine. All you have to do:
> 
> 
> 1) Lower your contrast for the first 100 hrs and limit opaque graphics, logos and black bar content for long periods of time.
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 2) put up a 100% white slide in vivid mode with 100% contrast for some time to age the panel evenly; if even aging is your priority. The break-in color slides method is all placebo effect.



This is plain incorrect. I had hot pixels in skies on my kuro when it was fresh out of the box. I ran the color slides and they were magically gone afterwards. Considering the nature of the hot pixels (only showing up on solids), it seems unlikely to me that they had no effect or that other content during the same period would have cleared it up.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21319057
> 
> 
> This is plain incorrect. I had hot pixels in skies on my kuro when it was fresh out of the box. I ran the color slides and they were magically gone afterwards. Considering the nature of the hot pixels (only showing up on solids), it seems unlikely to me that they had no effect or that other content during the same period would have cleared it up.



The same exact thing would have happened just using your Kuro normally with full screen content. All be it, a little longer process. The same exact thing would have been achieved also, if you would have used a 100% white slide only and not the color slides.


If you understand the plasmas cell structureand I'm not saying you don'tthen you know that red, green and blue used at 100% produce white. All three colors are being used 100% evenly in each pixel instead of working only red, only green and only blue separately.


----------



## LanceX

But the slides we use white to gray also. It all achieved the same thing.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan* /forum/post/21319283
> 
> 
> The same exact thing would have happened just using your Kuro normally with full screen content. All be it, a little longer process. The same exact thing would have been achieved also, if you would have used a 100% white slide only and not the color slides.



You know this as an absolute fact with 0% possibility that you could be wrong? I with I had that level of certainty about the world.



> Quote:
> If you understand the plasmas cell structure—and I'm not saying you don't—then you know that red, green and blue used at 100% produce white. All three colors are being used 100% evenly in each pixel instead of working only red, only green and only blue separately.



When you're viewing content, you're not viewing pure white. It's entirely possible to have hot pixels on a screen that show white on white but are hot for other color/shade solids on the screen - mine for example on the kuro were that way. Likewise on my LCD that had IR issues, it didn't usually show up on a pure white screen, but would on other shades of white or colors. The point of the slides is to exercise all of the states, not just the full-on state - unless of course all you want to watch is a pure white screen.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LanceX* /forum/post/21319381
> 
> 
> But the slides we use white to gray also. It all achieved the same thing.



There is no magic involved with the color break-in slides. None whatsoever. It is common knowledge that phosphorus based technologythink old school CRT tube's and Plasmashave a period in the beginning were the color settling takes place. Also back when plasmas were new, they used to run extremely hot in the beginning. That's why people would use the white field to get through this extreme period on CRT's and plasmas, it also helped in setting the color. However, Modern plasmas no longer exhibit the "extreme" wear period in the beginning, but it still takes time for the color to settle in a bit.


If it helps you sleep at night, then fine use the color break-in slides. As long as you keep an eye on the set, you certainly are not going to hurt anything. Just keep in mind though, that nothing magical is happening to your plasma while running them.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan* /forum/post/21319494
> 
> 
> There is no magic involved with the color break-in slides. None whatsoever. It is common knowledge that phosphorus based technologythink old school CRT tube's and Plasmashave a period in the beginning were the color settling takes place. Also back when plasmas were new, they used to run extremely hot in the beginning. That's why people would use the white field to get through this extreme period on CRT's and plasmas, it also helped in setting the color. However, Modern plasmas no longer exhibit the "extreme" wear period in the beginning, but it still takes time for the color to settle in a bit.
> 
> 
> If it helps you sleep at night, then fine use the color break-in slides. As long as you keep an eye on the set, you certainly are not going to hurt anything. Just keep in mind though, that nothing magical is happening to your plasma while running them.



It occurs to me that it's only the people who suggest that the color slides don't do anything who're suggesting that they somehow have "magical" powers. I don't think anyone else is claiming that.


----------



## LanceX

I understand ny views though. If slided did fix or settle un, you would think samsung would package a cd with slides.


90% of people here claim slides help the most though.


----------



## CalWldLif

considering all plasma makers increase the voltage driving the tubes, it is reasonable to believe the pixels

under go severe change early. this is backed up by the volt increases being must severe under a 1000hrs and pretty much done after 2500hrs.

People are free to do what ever they want in regards to panel breakin. I say breakin because charts show how fast the luminance is lost in a few hundred hours.

Is it any wonder people get logo burn in? The logos basically act like slides lighting a specific set of pixels.

Then the wear is evident and the owner must wait for surrounding pixels to catch up.

With normal content being faces in the center of the screen and darkness at the bottom and lightness at the top, I doubt the aging would be even with content alone.

I am a firm believer in slides being a benefit to panel uniformity and stability.

But hey, do as you will.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21319478
> 
> 
> You know this as an absolute fact with 0% possibility that you could be wrong? I with I had that level of certainty about the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you're viewing content, you're not viewing pure white. It's entirely possible to have hot pixels on a screen that show white on white but are hot for other color/shade solids on the screen - mine for example on the kuro were that way. Likewise on my LCD that had IR issues, it didn't usually show up on a pure white screen, but would on other shades of white or colors. The point of the slides is to exercise all of the states, not just the full-on state - unless of course all you want to watch is a pure white screen.



How do you know that the color break-in slides cleared it up for you? You think it did, because use used them. It's called the placebo effect. I never did any break-in slides on my Panasonic plasma and it looks amazing. Nice color, clear crisp images and no uneven wear.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CalWldLif* /forum/post/21319619
> 
> 
> considering all plasma makers increase the voltage driving the tubes, it is reasonable to believe the pixels
> 
> under go severe change early. this is backed up by the volt increases being must severe under a 1000hrs and pretty much done after 2500hrs.
> 
> People are free to do what ever they want in regards to panel breakin. I say breakin because charts show how fast the luminance is lost in a few hundred hours.
> 
> Is it any wonder people get logo burn in? The logos basically act like slides lighting a specific set of pixels.
> 
> Then the wear is evident and the owner must wait for surrounding pixels to catch up.
> 
> With normal content being faces in the center of the screen and darkness at the bottom and lightness at the top, I doubt the aging would be even with content alone.
> 
> I am a firm believer in slides being a benefit to panel uniformity and stability.
> 
> But hey, do as you will.



When plasmas had a half-life of 30,000 hours, burn in (uneven wear) was much more prevalent. It also crepted up on users much, much sooner. With modern plasmas having a half life of 100,000 hours, uneven aging takes a lot, lot longer to occur.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan* /forum/post/21319639
> 
> 
> How do you know that the color break-in slides cleared it up for you? You think it did, because use used them. It's called the placebo effect. I never did any break-in slides on my Panasonic plasma and it looks amazing. Nice color, clear crisp images and no uneven wear.



How do I know when I press on the breaks at an abrupt red light that pressing the breaks stopped me from getting into an accident?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan* /forum/post/21319770
> 
> 
> When plasmas had a half-life of 30,000 hours, burn in (uneven wear) was much more prevalent. It also crepted up on users much, much sooner. With modern plasmas having a half life of 100,000 hours, uneven aging takes a lot, lot longer to occur.



There are 4 different kinds of IR. Only one of them is uneven wear. Regardless of the rated half-life, the curve still slopes down most sharply from the start of the graph. This is a fact. It's also a fact that different charges are applied to push the phosphors different amounts = different brightness and colors. Like I said, color slides are better if you want to exercise all states instead of just a pure white state (i.e. preventing phosphorescence and residual charge). A pure white screen may be better for mgo sputtering, but color slides do that as well. And like I said, for aging a pure white screen is like a "brute force". It will get you through the hours evenly - at least on a pure white screen. Color slides = much greater variety of states than a flat white screen.


I also don't know what the word "crepted" means.


----------



## WaveBoy

Well, I've decided to keep both my 2011 42" 720p LG Plasma _and_ my 42" 1080p LG LCD. I can't decided between one another. For movies, that's an easier answer as my LG Plasma delivers superior motion handeling and for me that's much more important than getting better resolution at 1080p.


For gaming, I'd opt for the LCD because of the surreal and amazing bright picture it can produce(which is great for certain types of games like Super Mario Galaxy 2 ect) along with those beautiful bright whites and you get a crisper/clearer image as well.


Since i can't have the best of both worlds with one TV, i'm just keeping both. I'm using the Plasma as my main TV for DVD's and Bluray, while whenever i game I'll just switch it to my LCD. ;p kind of a slight annoyance, but whatever hehe.


Anyways! I was just wondering, i've already seen IR on my LG plasma from having a stactic image on the screen for over 10 minutes, but it always fades away when watching a movie or whatever afterwards. Yet what if i kept a static image on my plasma for 2 hours? would there just be a wonky case of IR which would go away by watching a movie, or would burn in actually happen?


----------



## dlplover

You have a crisper image on the LCD because it's 1080p and the plasma is only 720p, not because it's LCD.


----------



## WaveBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21330524
> 
> 
> You have a crisper image on the LCD because it's 1080p and the plasma is only 720p, not because it's LCD.



I was actually talking about when playing 480p material like the wii. ;p

MY LCD does appear to have a bit of a cleaner/crisper image.










Movie wise, well ya. You're comparing 1024x768 vs 1080p, of course there's going to be a bit of a difference even at 42"










Anyways, the Auto dimming is really getting on my nerves....maybe one of the picture modes doesn't have it. Cinema is too dim to begin with, but I'm currently using Expert 1.

I did a test on a static image. and the auto dim kicked in around 5-6 minutes...


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WaveBoy* /forum/post/21330956
> 
> 
> I was actually talking about when playing 480p material like the wii. ;p
> 
> MY LCD does appear to have a bit of a cleaner/crisper image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Movie wise, well ya. You're comparing 1024x768 vs 1080p, of course there's going to be a bit of a difference even at 42"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, the Auto dimming is really getting on my nerves....maybe one of the picture modes doesn't have it. Cinema is too dim to begin with, but I'm currently using Expert 1.
> 
> I did a test on a static image. and the auto dim kicked in around 5-6 minutes...



It's not an apples to apples comparison. Most 720p sets on the market now are entry level, skimp on everything, models. They're not like they were before 1080p became common. Now you usually need a 1080p set if you want superior PQ. Also, there are other companies who make plasmas besides LG. Of course what matters is that the sets fit your intended purpose. Just don't judge plasmas as a whole by the set you have. Doing yourself a disservice if you do.


----------



## terzaghi

Are there slide that should be run after watching movies with top and bottom bars, 4:3 side bars, or channels with network logos to help prevent burn in or image retention?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terzaghi* /forum/post/21331573
> 
> 
> Are there slide that should be run after watching movies with top and bottom bars, 4:3 side bars, or channels with network logos to help prevent burn in or image retention?



I personally run different slides for 2.35:1 movies that I watch. It's 120 images of letterbox-framed color slides where the _middle_ is black, and the top and bottom have color (kind of evens everything out).


The problem is that I have sometimes noticed if I run the things back to back (the movie then the slides), if I look hard enough, I either pretend to see or I really see two 1-pixel height horizontal lines where the color threshold is, because some color leaks over the black on both sides, I guess. If that's the case, I don't know if that ends up helping me or hurting me, so I do the next best thing and run my 16x9 slides normally, _then_ every so often I'll run the 2.35:1 slides for a lengthened period of time, just to counter all of the movies I had watched. In fact, I'm running them right now until football starts coming on, then I'll run the 16x9 slides and put the TV sleep timer on for 60 minutes.


I don't watch 4x3 content on my TV, so I have yet to make 1.33:1 slides for it. But I might do it soon, because I want to test it on my downstairs TV, since it runs the issue of uneven wear on the sides. Maybe if I ran it for a week straight, everything would balance out.










I can't help you with logos. Sorry.


Here are the letterbox movie slides if you'd like them:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M2FTMM33 


For reference, I used Inception to create the frame, which is a 2.35:1 film.


----------



## terzaghi

Thanks.


----------



## Greentrunk

Hi guys great thread, its threads like this that helps us all.


I purchased my Panasonic TX-P42ST30B in October, confident that i wouldnt get any burn in or IR i just put it to the back of my mind. Now sadly the other day i noticed the EA Sports logo in the bottom corner and the 2/d map faintly outlined at the bottom of the screen. Now i dont know which way to go?


Ive tried taking pictures of it to show you what i mean, but its not that clear. I think im being anal about this but when you spend nr £600 on a Plasma you expect some quality.


Now ive downloaded the funnily enough "EA Breakin DVD", will this help to get rid?


Settings i have today turned on as they were off... Pixel Orbiter On and Side panel High.


I havent done any break in as yet, watched alot of films and ps3/sky+/Blurays through a seperate Sony home system.


Any help would be great and a point in the right direction too guys!


Thanks for reading.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greentrunk* /forum/post/21337317
> 
> 
> I purchased my Panasonic TX-P42ST30B in October, confident that i wouldnt get any burn in or IR i just put it to the back of my mind. Now sadly the other day i noticed the EA Sports logo in the bottom corner and the 2/d map faintly outlined at the bottom of the screen. Now i dont know which way to go?
> 
> 
> Settings i have today turned on as they were off... Pixel Orbiter On and Side panel High.
> 
> 
> I havent done any break in as yet, watched alot of films and ps3/sky+/Blurays through a seperate Sony home system.
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading.



Hi,

Don't worry that IR will vanish in a weeks time but all you have to do is to avoide that perticular spotrs channel for the time being,and see fast moving content in full screen mode...i.e without any black bars.It could be DTH HD or BD movies,or playstation games.

And another thing is that when you watch channels with logo,try changing channels every 30 minutes or so,to a channel which has logos in different side of the screen.just for 2 to 5 minutes or during add breaks.That will help a lot.

And another thing that i noticed is that when you cold start the tv try to warm the panel with visuals with on channel logos or news stickers.that is after the initial warm up then switch to channels of your choice.it is noticed that IR is maximium during the first 30 to 40 minutes of usage in new panels which has not crossed 200 to 300 hrs of regular usage !

And by the way even i have Panny which is 7 months old now and i use it like any regular crt tv.But when i bought new,It did give me mild IR but will soon disappear while watching other content.And my verdict is that in future if i have to buy a nother plasma for another room it will also be a panny.Iam fully satisfied with its quality & performance !


Love,

kris.


----------



## Greentrunk

Krys- You ledge thanks for replying. Yeah ive been changing underwear as i was worried that it might stay. But you've but my faith back into this sweet TV.


Do you think i should start with the Breakin DVD?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greentrunk* /forum/post/21342535
> 
> 
> Krys- You ledge thanks for replying. Yeah ive been changing underwear as i was worried that it might stay. But you've but my faith back into this sweet TV.
> 
> 
> Do you think i should start with the Breakin DVD?



Just watch normal HD TV, full screen, with no static images like a sports bar, etc. for the first couple hundred hours. No sense in using the DVD and wasting valuable viewing time. Watching normal TV is just as good as the DVD.


----------



## Greentrunk

Okay i havent got SkyHD in hd i have 720p films, so i should choose a fast moving one.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greentrunk* /forum/post/21342535
> 
> 
> Krys- You ledge thanks for replying. Yeah ive been changing underwear as i was worried that it might stay. But you've put my faith back into this sweet TV.
> 
> 
> Do you think i should start with the "Breakin DVD"?



I hope for this Christmas you will buy a BD player or a HD set top box.This will help you a lot_believe me.Whichever suits your budget get one on the newyear discount sale and along with it few Bd movies with lots of action content and always try to collect newer movies & cartoons which has enormous Colour bandwidth & resolution than old vintage classic movies.Though modern movies are all shot in 16:9 ascpect ratio,if black bars do appear on top and bottom of the screen,you can always use the zoom1 settings in your plasma tv to remove it.Since most of the BD support 2k resolution,there want be much clarity loss.

By doing so you will please both your hdtv and your eyes !










Merry Christmas & happy new year....


Love,

kris.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greentrunk* /forum/post/21343519
> 
> 
> Okay i havent got SkyHD in hd i have 720p films, so i should choose a fast moving one.



Then watch regular non-hd channels, just make sure there are no bars on the top/bottom and the sides. Then you are good to go.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21345084
> 
> 
> I hope for this Christmas you will buy a BD player or a HD set top box.This will help you a lot_believe me.Whichever suits your budget get one on the newyear discount sale and along with it few Bd movies with lots of action content and always try to collect newer movies & cartoons which has enormous Colour bandwidth & resolution than old vintage classic movies.*Though modern movies are all shot in 16:9 ascpect ratio,if black bars do appear on top and bottom of the screen,you can always use the zoom1 settings in your plasma tv to remove it.*Since most of the BD support 2k resolution,there want be much clarity loss.
> 
> By doing so you will please both your hdtv and your eyes !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas & happy new year....
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.



Actually, interesting that you mention this. This was the very first thing I tried to do with my television when watching a 2.35:1 Blu-ray disc. It didn't seem to work. I don't know if that picture size wasn't available for a BD-HDMI source, or if it was still too letterboxed to fill up the entire screen... but my Samsung PN59D7000 did not allow me to do that.


I'll have to try it again.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21345084
> 
> 
> I hope for this Christmas you will buy a BD player or a HD set top box.This will help you a lot_believe me.Whichever suits your budget get one on the newyear discount sale *and along with it few Bd movies with lots of action content and always try to collect newer movies & cartoons which has enormous Colour bandwidth & resolution than old vintage classic movies.Though modern movies are all shot in 16:9 ascpect ratio,if black bars do appear on top and bottom of the screen,you can always use the zoom1 settings in your plasma tv to remove it.*Since most of the BD support 2k resolution,there want be much clarity loss.
> 
> By doing so you will please both your hdtv and your eyes !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas & happy new year....
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.



You do understand that the old film classics were shot on is capable of scanning at resolutions FAR higher than 1080p, which is why the new BR releases look so much better? Also, suggesting someone not buy classics is just silly. They're considered classics for a reason. And saying that modern movies are all shot in 16:9 is likewise just wrong. It's the choice of the director filming it, which usually has to do with how they want it to look in a theater and not how it will look on people's home HDTVs. Zoom modes can help, but they can also be quite annoying depending on the film. I never had trouble with black bars myself, but I ran a slightly longer break-in and then went easy on the set for the first 1-1.5k hours.


The important thing is to try and make most content fill the screen, but saying to avoid classics is just nuts.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21346615
> 
> 
> Actually, interesting that you mention this. This was the very first thing I tried to do with my television when watching a 2.35:1 Blu-ray disc. It didn't seem to work. I don't know if that picture size wasn't available for a BD-HDMI source, or if it was still too letterboxed to fill up the entire screen... but my Samsung PN59D7000 did not allow me to do that.
> 
> 
> I'll have to try it again.



Did you try both the TV and the BR player? The BR player itself may have size settings you can adjust.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dlplover* /forum/post/21346717
> 
> 
> Did you try both the TV and the BR player? The BR player itself may have size settings you can adjust.



It's a PS3. I'll have to check on that when I get home.


----------



## Dave_I

I am sure this has been asked, however in trying to search I came up empty. Anyway, following using D-Nice slide-show & entering his settings, what precautions should one take for the next 100 or so hours of break-in? I'm sure there is something out there, however while I can find the slides and the settings I can _not_ seem to find any follow-up protocol.


Second, am I correct in presuming you just copy the slides onto a flash drive, plug it in, and set it on a continuous slideshow loop for the next four-or-so days? I'm guessing that I take it out of torch mode first?


I'm doing this on a Panasonic 65VT30 if it makes any difference.


-Cheers


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21347160
> 
> 
> It's a PS3. I'll have to check on that when I get home.



So anyway, the PS3 doesn't have such a feature, and Zoom 1 is grayed out when using BD + HDMI. Does the numbered input matter? I'm using HDMI 2, for instance.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave_I* /forum/post/21348465
> 
> 
> I am sure this has been asked, however in trying to search I came up empty. Anyway, following using D-Nice slide-show & entering his settings, what precautions should one take for the next 100 or so hours of break-in? I'm sure there is something out there, however while I can find the slides and the settings I can _not_ seem to find any follow-up protocol.
> 
> 
> Second, am I correct in presuming you just copy the slides onto a flash drive, plug it in, and set it on a continuous slideshow loop for the next four-or-so days? I'm guessing that I take it out of torch mode first?
> 
> 
> I'm doing this on a Panasonic 65VT30 if it makes any difference.
> 
> 
> -Cheers



It really is pointless to run the slides. You can achieve the same thing if you just watch normal, full screen TV. Why not watch normal TV and enjoy the set instead of waiting days?? The whole point is just to get the cells active and used.


After your initial usage with no static logo/image/bars, then all you have to do is just be mindful that if you watch a football game or something, mix up the viewing afterwards to help wash the pixels, just be mindful, but enjoy your TV.


----------



## Dave_I

Hey William, thanks for the input. Just a few thoughts . . .



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21350953
> 
> 
> It really is pointless to run the slides. You can achieve the same thing if you just watch normal, full screen TV. Why not watch normal TV and enjoy the set instead of waiting days?? The whole point is just to get the cells active and used.



Maybe. I just figure I might as well be safe about it. There is some debate on whether or not D-Nice's settings work if you do not use the slides, the slides seem to make sense from a standpoint of evenly wearing the pixels the first 100 or so hours.


Plus, knowing my luck, my wife & daughter will disregard my advice and I'll end up with a perma-logo from Nickelodeon and 4:3 sidebars or something. You might be right, but it's only a few days and I'd rather play it safe. Almost every IR complaint I read (although I'm sure I've missed more than a few) seems to be from somebody who played a static image video game or logo-branded channel before any break-in period and freaks out, so I'd rather just get that early break-in time out of the way in the most risk-free manner possible so I can just be sensible and worry about it less. It's only a few days, and the TV should last several years, so it's not such a big deal. My 4-year-old might disagree







but she'll live.



> Quote:
> After your initial usage with no static logo/image/bars, then all you have to do is just be mindful that if you watch a football game or something, mix up the viewing afterwards to help wash the pixels, just be mindful, but enjoy your TV.



Sounds good. Thanks again.


-Cheers


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave_I* /forum/post/21351225
> 
> 
> Hey William, thanks for the input. Just a few thoughts . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe. I just figure I might as well be safe about it. There is some debate on whether or not D-Nice's settings work if you do not use the slides, the slides seem to make sense from a standpoint of evenly wearing the pixels the first 100 or so hours.
> 
> 
> Plus, knowing my luck, my wife & daughter will disregard my advice and I'll end up with a perma-logo from Nickelodeon and 4:3 sidebars or something. You might be right, but it's only a few days and I'd rather play it safe. Almost every IR complaint I read (although I'm sure I've missed more than a few) seems to be from somebody who played a static image video game or logo-branded channel before any break-in period and freaks out, so I'd rather just get that early break-in time out of the way in the most risk-free manner possible so I can just be sensible and worry about it less. It's only a few days, and the TV should last several years, so it's not such a big deal. My 4-year-old might disagree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but she'll live.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good. Thanks again.
> 
> 
> -Cheers



It is no problem, if you are comfortable doing it, then by all means what ever gives you peace of mind. Enjoy the new set!!!


----------



## mhyug

hi guys, new user of plasma tv here.


i got to say after being with crt tv's for soo long , this "new" tvs does scare me a bit, but even so i bought a Panasonic TH-P42U30.Not sure how good or bad is this model/brand but it fits my budget and needs.


Its been sitting there watching me while i watch it in "turned off mode" for about 1 week.why some might ask, well simple answer i have no HD content yet to play on the set, so only in the last 1/2 hr or so ive been playing the break in image by evangelos.Not sure how right im doing this, tho i have tuned down the brightness/contrast to below 50%.


Ive read the previous posts in this very informative thread, it seems there is a 50-50 opinion on "breaking in".


lets say, i stop the break in images before it reaches the 100 or so hrs and just carry on using my tv as cautious i can(no bars, full screen hd material only, no static images for long periods and all that) for about 100-200 hrs, should i let the contrast/brightness level remain for he break in duration??and can i readjust them once my tv has "aged" pass that usage of 100-200 hrs?


----------



## dlplover

If you're running break-in slides, the settings are to be used ONLY for when running the slides, switch to reference settings if you're taking a break. The break-in settings have everything maxed to the wazoo so you're putting yourself at substantially more risk if you don't change the settings when you change back and forth between content.


But in answer to your question, yes there's no reason you can't take a break to use the set for actual content, just make sure to change settings when switching back and forth to the slides. Also, it's not a hard and fast rule about break-in for the amount of time. If one wanted to be especially careful they could run the slides whenever they weren't watching the set normally for even longer to help their set even more. If you're worried, you could run slides for 500-1000 hours during the time that you aren't viewing content on it. You won't hurt anything by running slides during the set's spare time.


I've never had any kind of IR with my set or other issues, but one reason for that may be that I also use it as an HTPC and have the windows background set to slideshow changing every ~7 seconds w/no icons etc.. on the screen. So effectively I always it running slides often when it's connected to the HTPC and on and not running a movie.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhyug* /forum/post/21356979
> 
> 
> hi guys, new user of plasma tv here.
> 
> 
> i got to say after being with crt tv's for soo long , this "new" tvs does scare me a bit, but even so i bought a Panasonic TH-P42U30.Not sure how good or bad is this model/brand but it fits my budget and needs.
> 
> 
> Its been sitting there watching me while i watch it in "turned off mode" for about 1 week.why some might ask, well simple answer i have no HD content yet to play on the set, so only in the last 1/2 hr or so ive been playing the break in image by evangelos.Not sure how right im doing this, tho i have tuned down the brightness/contrast to below 50%.
> 
> 
> Ive read the previous posts in this very informative thread, it seems there is a 50-50 opinion on "breaking in".
> 
> 
> lets say, i stop the break in images before it reaches the 100 or so hrs and just carry on using my tv as cautious i can(no bars, full screen hd material only, no static images for long periods and all that) for about 100-200 hrs, should i let the contrast/brightness level remain for he break in duration??and can i readjust them once my tv has "aged" pass that usage of 100-200 hrs?



Just because you don't have HD content doesn't mean you can't watch your TV. Use the standard content (zoomed or stretched so no bars) and use that as the break in period. Enjoy your set, no sense in wasting all this time starring at nothing.


----------



## siqniz

I'd feel guilty w/ out posting my break-in experience:


I bought my Panny 50s30 last week saturday(12/10/2011). After reading the thread extensively and thoroughly. I watching the TV when at home, low light to where my apt is located and when I was sleep or at work I ran the RGB slides provided on this forum. Using the menu I can tell there is mild IR esp using the DLNA server where the menu screen is static and fairly bright. after every day the IR time would diminish with each day. Finally the last 2 days I played some GoW3 for about an 1 hour. mega minor IR. Next day I played for 2, nothing unless your face was in the tv looking at 45degree angle seriously. The slides work. I'm a first time Plasma owner. No regrets, I love this TV games play flawlessly clear no blur and I'm a heavy gamer SSIV:AE mainly. Picture is clean as it can be. I calibrated using the tools on this site. It works, only turned down the Contrast and Brightness to


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I read this on another forum, I get my new 50" plasma on Tuesday











> Quote:
> TIP - for anyone using ANY PLASMA ON THE MARKET - if you are experiencing BURN IN or GHOSTING and the images seem to be stuck on your screen - THERE IS HOPE!!!
> 
> 
> When you're done watching TV for the day - go to a channel with nothing but SNOW (Static) on it.
> 
> 
> Turn your contrast WAY UP turn your Brightness to half you should see ONLY BLACK AND WHITE specs not some grey some white and some black.
> 
> 
> When this is done - Go make a bag of popcorn (or just wait for 2 - 3 minutes) Then Crank the Brightness up to 75% and wait another 30 seconds. Put your settings back to normal and trun your TV OFF!
> 
> 
> You will see those nasty marks will be gone. This advice was given to me by a 70 year old TV repair man, who used to FIX old tube TV's and use this technique on some of the most stubborn burn in he'd ever seen... AND IT WORKS!


----------



## hungro

I tried this "re-pair mans" tip or trick and to no avail I still have a ghost image of the video input label "HDMI1/DVI".


----------



## bigwad

I'm getting a 55st30 delivered Friday. I'm planning on running the 100 hrs of slides to break it in evenly, although I'm tempted to just watch it and break it in from that. I'm leaning towards the slides for 100 hrs just to get the picture right as quick as possible. I think I'll go D-Nice's route with the slides.


When I receive the tv, orderd from Amazon, Home Direct will deliver it and set it up to verify all is working. I am planning to either set it up in a back room with no receiver access, or just put it in the living room and start watching.


1. When the set arrives, is there anything specific I should look for to assure the set is working properly?


2. If I set it up in the backroom to run slides first, should I just use the slides to check the picture, or should I use a DVD player to check?


3. If I decide to just start watching, should I adjust to some kind of lower setting for the first month or so, or go ahead and use D-Nice's or another setting I've seen on this site?


Thanks for any help. I'm new with this and want to get the best picture possible, as soon as possible! And I don't want to take any shortcuts if it means lower picture quality.


----------



## Semp1

Contrast, brightness, sharpness should all be put below 40. Slides or not you should break a plasma in for at least 250 hours. So for 150 hours more watch full screen images with the setting set low.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Semp1* /forum/post/21374365
> 
> 
> Contrast, brightness, sharpness should all be put below 40. Slides or not you should break a plasma in for at least 250 hours. So for 150 hours more watch full screen images with the setting set low.



I never understood, but is there a reason why the settings for contrast and brightness should be set low for running break-in slides? In the end, it all evens out anyway, right?


Just wondering.


----------



## whipit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21374386
> 
> 
> I never understood, but is there a reason why the settings for contrast and brightness should be set low for running break-in slides? In the end, it all evens out anyway, right?
> 
> 
> Just wondering.



The settings used for breakin slides are supposed to set high, 100 contrast, 50 brightness.


No need to watch at lower than optimal settings, It won't hurt a thing. If you are careless it may cause temp image retention and that's it. The panel can easily handle it. Just keep static images at a lower percentage of the viewing for the first few hundred hours.


----------



## aesalon

Hi all,


I just bought a Panasonic 55VT30, and I'm wondering what steps I need to follow to break it in. Can I just run the break-in DVD (downloadable from the threads on this site) overnight for the first few weeks, or are there any other steps I should be aware of?


Thanks!


----------



## hungro

Hello I came across this article about removing image retention in the article there is a link to a dvd which displays different static images to help with logo burn in. I don't have logo burn in but I do have heavy image retention of my video input label "HDMI1/DVI" after having it on for many hours during different calibration sessions of imputing numbers and actual calibrating , i don't know why this image doesn't remove itself after displaying for a certain period of time always displays the current video input you are in , the only way to take it off is to hit exit on the remote. Arggh it's frustrating knowing that this image being static while setting up the tv and changing settings caused image retention . Anyways here is the link.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/f...mage-retention


----------



## MG428

I own Panny VT20 properly broken-in and used for 3000+ hours.


When I play 3D content I find the brightness too low, possibly (?) due to the nature of active shutter glasses, to the extent that I prefer using Dynamic mode.


I know using Dynamic mode is a risk factor which may cause temporary image retention or even permanent burn-in if the plasma is not properly broken-in.


My questions are:


1) Is there a possibility that IR or burn-in may occur despite my proper break-in process in the past and total hours viewed when I use Dynamic mode?


2) If your answer would be "IR may occur but burn-it would not", then my next question is: Would frequent IRs eventually cause burn-in? In other words, is there a relation with how frequent IR occurs and burn-in? The reason why I am asking this question is because, as long as IR does not eventually lead to burn-in and it disappears within a certain and relatively small period of time, it would not bother me.


Thank you!


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MG428* /forum/post/21383344
> 
> 
> 2) If your answer would be "IR may occur but burn-it would not", then my next question is: Would frequent IRs eventually cause burn-in? In other words, is there a relation with how frequent IR occurs and burn-in? The reason why I am asking this question is because, as long as IR does not eventually lead to burn-in and it disappears within a certain and relatively small period of time, it would not bother me.



Good luck getting this answered, I've been trying to ask this for months and have never gotten a single response, let alone an acknowledgement. It seems this should be the most important reason to be concerned about uneven wear on one's television, but this question is always dodged left and right.


Hopefully somebody answers it for you, because I'd like to know what "burn-in" truly is.


----------



## hungro

r It 's a difficult questions, somewhere someone posted what image retention, ghostinand burn in is. There was a mention that burn in takes a very very long time to happen , you would first experience image retention , ghosting before you would get to the level of burn in which is permenant damage of the phosfer cells not reversible. Do a search on this forum for image retention , mgo sputtering . That might help with your questions maybe, no guarenteees though. Good luck.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

If you watch the lord of the rings boxset, approx nine hours, one after the other, at 2.35:1 aspect , will you get permanent burn in?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21383673
> 
> 
> Good luck getting this answered, I've been trying to ask this for months and have never gotten a single response, let alone an acknowledgement. It seems this should be the most important reason to be concerned about uneven wear on one's television, but this question is always dodged left and right.
> 
> 
> Hopefully somebody answers it for you, because I'd like to know what "burn-in" truly is.



I don't think it has been dodged left and right. The reason is, there is no hard and fast rule of when burn in occurs. However, it does take a LOOOONNGGG time to get permenant burn in. You would need a set running for days with the same logo never moving to approach burn in. Almost everything everyone experiences is IR that can be washed away. Some IR is more stubborn then others and may take more work.


Frequent IR will not lead to burn in as long as inbetween the viewing that causes the IR is full screen with something else. I would not watch the same thing again that caused the IR until you know the IR has gone away. If the IR image has not gone away then you are just adding to the problem, keep repeating it and you may get burn in. But burn in requires months and months of viewing in my opinion. However, there is no rule that says X amount and bam you have burn in.


Watch something that is IR, then watch something else until the IR is gone (if it is even there), and you will be fine.


There question anwered, not dodged, anything else?


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21396205
> 
> 
> I don't think it has been dodged left and right. The reason is, there is no hard and fast rule of when burn in occurs. However, it does take a LOOOONNGGG time to get permenant burn in. You would need a set running for days with the same logo never moving to approach burn in. Almost everything everyone experiences is IR that can be washed away. Some IR is more stubborn then others and may take more work.
> 
> 
> Frequent IR will not lead to burn in as long as inbetween the viewing that causes the IR is full screen with something else. I would not watch the same thing again that caused the IR until you know the IR has gone away. If the IR image has not gone away then you are just adding to the problem, keep repeating it and you may get burn in. But burn in requires months and months of viewing in my opinion. However, there is no rule that says X amount and bam you have burn in.
> 
> 
> Watch something that is IR, then watch something else until the IR is gone (if it is even there), and you will be fine.
> 
> 
> There question anwered, not dodged, anything else?



Not necessarily. Like I said, if a set is defective (and I do consider IR/BI a defect at this point) you can't assume that the phosphors or mgo layer won't have problems and if they do you can't assume they'll get problems earlier or later. That's why I try to be cautious in my recommendations. It's a defect that flat panel manufacturers rarely will cover.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21396205
> 
> 
> I don't think it has been dodged left and right. The reason is, there is no hard and fast rule of when burn in occurs. However, it does take a LOOOONNGGG time to get permenant burn in. You would need a set running for days with the same logo never moving to approach burn in. Almost everything everyone experiences is IR that can be washed away. Some IR is more stubborn then others and may take more work.
> 
> 
> Frequent IR will not lead to burn in as long as inbetween the viewing that causes the IR is full screen with something else. I would not watch the same thing again that caused the IR until you know the IR has gone away. If the IR image has not gone away then you are just adding to the problem, keep repeating it and you may get burn in. But burn in requires months and months of viewing in my opinion. However, there is no rule that says X amount and bam you have burn in.
> 
> 
> Watch something that is IR, then watch something else until the IR is gone (if it is even there), and you will be fine.
> 
> 
> There question anwered, not dodged, anything else?



I'll ignore the snide last comment, as my post wasn't out of rudeness, it was out of curiosity as to why the question doesn't seem to lend itself to an answer ever (or why it's not asked more in general, for that matter).


I suppose my real question wasn't about how long it takes, but rather is it the same amount of time no matter how you spin it? In other words, say I watch ESPN for 200 hours on two separate televisions, but on one television I watch it for 200 straight hours and then other television for 100 hours after, meanwhile on the other television I watch ESPN in 50 hour intervals and other content for 25 hour intervals. Is it the _amount_ of time watched that causes the uneven wear, or is it the prolonged about of having IR on your screen what causes uneven wear?


Thanks, by the way. Your post was a big help.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21396522
> 
> 
> I'll ignore the snide last comment, as my post wasn't out of rudeness, it was out of curiosity as to why the question doesn't seem to lend itself to an answer ever (or why it's not asked more in general, for that matter).
> 
> 
> I suppose my real question wasn't about how long it takes, but rather is it the same amount of time no matter how you spin it? In other words, say I watch ESPN for 200 hours on two separate televisions, but on one television I watch it for 200 straight hours and then other television for 100 hours after, meanwhile on the other television I watch ESPN in 50 hour intervals and other content for 25 hour intervals. Is it the _amount_ of time watched that causes the uneven wear, or is it the prolonged about of having IR on your screen what causes uneven wear?
> 
> 
> Thanks, by the way. Your post was a big help.



Well the reason there's no easy well to tell you exactly is that there's actually 4 different kinds of image retention caused by different things. It's not so easy for instance to be able to tell the difference between mgo sputtering and uneven wear so when a set gets IR you don't necessarily know for a fact which kind of IR it has. One set may have sub-par phosphors while another may have sub-par mgo, etc etc.. So no you can't predict for any given set exactly what effect different things will have on it. One set may be fine for 200 straight hours with static logos while another may get "unhappy" after 5 hours.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21396522
> 
> 
> I'll ignore the snide last comment, as my post wasn't out of rudeness, it was out of curiosity as to why the question doesn't seem to lend itself to an answer ever (or why it's not asked more in general, for that matter).
> 
> 
> I suppose my real question wasn't about how long it takes, but rather is it the same amount of time no matter how you spin it? In other words, say I watch ESPN for 200 hours on two separate televisions, but on one television I watch it for 200 straight hours and then other television for 100 hours after, meanwhile on the other television I watch ESPN in 50 hour intervals and other content for 25 hour intervals. Is it the _amount_ of time watched that causes the uneven wear, or is it the prolonged about of having IR on your screen what causes uneven wear?
> 
> 
> Thanks, by the way. Your post was a big help.



No, it is not 200 hours no matter what. In your example, doing 200 straight hours on ESPN only would more likely have the IR. In your second example, doing it for 50 hours and then watching other content for 25 is really what you SHOULD be doing. This will dramatically help/prevent IR on a lot of sets. This way you are washing the cells that were red with the ESPN logo with other colors. This is the idea way to watch the TV. Of course, as stated before, if a set is defective, it may get IR/burn in fast. I have a Pioneer plasma and played 8 hours of one game, then 4 hours of other content, and the next day I repeated it. Not even a hint of IR. So the manufacturer of the set makes a difference too. But in your example, your second scenerio is actually the best way to watch TV and prevent IR. So then in that case, you would most likely not get IR.


Did that make sense???


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21399643
> 
> 
> No, it is not 200 hours no matter what. In your example, doing 200 straight hours on ESPN only would more likely have the IR. In your second example, doing it for 50 hours and then watching other content for 25 is really what you SHOULD be doing. This will dramatically help/prevent IR on a lot of sets. This way you are washing the cells that were red with the ESPN logo with other colors. This is the idea way to watch the TV. Of course, as stated before, if a set is defective, it may get IR/burn in fast. I have a Pioneer plasma and played 8 hours of one game, then 4 hours of other content, and the next day I repeated it. Not even a hint of IR. So the manufacturer of the set makes a difference too. But in your example, your second scenerio is actually the best way to watch TV and prevent IR. So then in that case, you would most likely not get IR.
> 
> 
> Did that make sense???



I fully agree with you.And this is what i was doing for my first 200hrs on my new panasonic plasma.


love,

kris.


----------



## Carpaccio

Just got a Samsung PN59D6500 and just started running the break-in slides.


When I first put the DVD in to run the slides, the aspect ratio on the TV was set to 16:9 and there were black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. I simply went into the settings and clicked on "Zoom 1" and it zoomed in on the image and now the entire screen is filled.


Is this OK since the slides are just solid colors?


Will this accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish with these slides and not cause any damage?


Have I achieved the end goal even though I'm thinking the screen should have been filled with the 16:9 setting?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I prefer to break in a plasma the old fashioned way, by actually watching it, albeit in zoomed mode, I do not trust these dvd or usb break in slides, I worry something will happen and a menu will be burned into the screen if it is left untended.


I have about 56 hours of break-in still a long way to go.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carpaccio* /forum/post/21404079
> 
> 
> Just got a Samsung PN59D6500 and just started running the break-in slides.
> 
> 
> When I first put the DVD in to run the slides, the aspect ratio on the TV was set to 16:9 and there were black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. I simply went into the settings and clicked on "Zoom 1" and it zoomed in on the image and now the entire screen is filled.
> 
> 
> Is this OK since the slides are just solid colors?
> 
> 
> Will this accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish with these slides and not cause any damage?
> 
> 
> Have I achieved the end goal even though I'm thinking the screen should have been filled with the 16:9 setting?



yeah, that will accomplish it but I thought the discs did not have bars and were true 16X9. I haven't used them in so long I could be wrong though.


----------



## Carpaccio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21404539
> 
> 
> yeah, that will accomplish it but I thought the discs did not have bars and were true 16X9. I haven't used them in so long I could be wrong though.



Thanks for your reply *WilliamR*.


Maybe one of my settings in my DVD player or TV is off or maybe I did something wrong in burning the ISO to a DVD, but as long as what I'm doing is working, then I'll stick with it.


I was thinking about turning the brightness and contrast up to 100% while I'm here and awake to monitor it, then back down to 50% when I'm asleep or away, but still breaking it in for 100 hours. What do you think about this?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carpaccio* /forum/post/21406190
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply *WilliamR*.
> 
> 
> Maybe one of my settings in my DVD player or TV is off or maybe I did something wrong in burning the ISO to a DVD, but as long as what I'm doing is working, then I'll stick with it.
> 
> 
> I was thinking about turning the brightness and contrast up to 100% while I'm here and awake to monitor it, then back down to 50% when I'm asleep or away, but still breaking it in for 100 hours. What do you think about this?



Wouldn't hurt, but make sure you remember to turn it down.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I would not leave your tv like that for too long as it will be putting a lot of stess on the electronics and may shorten it`s life.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carpaccio* /forum/post/21406190
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply *WilliamR*.
> 
> 
> Maybe one of my settings in my DVD player or TV is off or maybe I did something wrong in burning the ISO to a DVD, but as long as what I'm doing is working, then I'll stick with it.
> 
> *I was thinking about turning the brightness and contrast up to 100%* while I'm here and awake to monitor it, then back down to 50% when I'm asleep or away, but still breaking it in for 100 hours. What do you think about this?


----------



## Cal1981

I have a Panny 50ST30, purchased in late Arpil which is suffering from what I consider to be horrific IR. Static menus or images that are onscreen for even very brief periods are leaving ghost images that are visible for ahwile on any subsequent dark areas of the screen, more prominent on the right side than the left. It is painfully obvious when the screen goes blank between program changes. At times, on the right side of the screen, there is an area that seems to be a bit lighter than the other area. It's kind of a splotch, irregularly shaped. I no longer have anything resembling deep blacks on these screens or rolling credit screens. The ghosting creates a dingy uneven caste over the panel. Some of the ghosting will dissapate but can take a fair amount of time. I took care during the set's initial use to watch at full screen with modest brightness and contrast. I have had the A-board replaced twice, the first for an HDMI input problem and the second for what I felt was serious panel problem (illuminated pixel lines on the edges of the screen when usuing HD Size 2 and a brightness over 54-55). That was never resolved and I had a terrible experience with Panasonic on the issue when they refused to deal with it further. My question now is that, given the high dgree of IR that I am seeing, would another call to Panasonic be advisable? What I'm concerned about is that, even though the IR appears to be a separate issue for the one that they wouldn't deal with, I'm going to get blown off by them (the communications did get pretty testy on the older issue). I don't know if they will acknowldge the IR as anything but a "normal working condition" or try to blame me for using the set "improperly". Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

It sounds like legal action or the threat of is your only option, In the UK , I would send the seller a recorded letter stating your problems and that you expect them to fix the problem or be taken to the small claims court usually cost you £50 and give them 14 days to sort things out or you till take them to court add the works "time is of the essence" to the bottom of the letter it`s legal language.


But as you live in the USA, I dont know what laws appy there.


Make sure you keep a record of any correspondence.


Good Luck


John.


EDIT : Dont you guys have something called a lemon law, this is your third fault or does that only apply to cars?


----------



## Cal1981




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21413552
> 
> 
> It sounds like legal action or the threat of is your only option, In the UK , I would send the seller a recorded letter stating your problems and that you expect them to fix the problem or be taken to the small claims court usually cost you £50 and give them 14 days to sort things out or you till take them to court add the works "time is of the essence" to the bottom of the letter it`s legal language.
> 
> 
> But as you live in the USA, I dont know what laws appy there.
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep a record of any correspondence.
> 
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> 
> John.
> 
> 
> EDIT : Dont you guys have something called a lemon law, this is your third fault or does that only apply to cars?




Unfortunately if you mention even contacting your state Attorney General's Consumer Affairs office (if there is one), Panasonic's stance is that you are threatening them with a "legal action" and they refuse to speak to you further. I guess that my real question is whether Panasonic will even try to address an issue with IR such as I have described. Has anyone called the company about this and, if so, was there any satisfactory resolution?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Unless you bought the TV from Panasonic, in the UK you contract is though the retailer, they are the ones you pursue for your warranty.


In the UK in the first 6 months the retailer has to prove there in no fault with the product and after 6 months it`s down to the buyer to prove a fault, but most customer services do not know this or customers.


John.


----------



## lifesun

I originally posted this in the ST30 thread, but I realized it may be better to post this here. Have owned several plasmas in the past and NEVER had IR/Burn in issues until this new Panasonic ST30.....


Long story short, I have IR from watching 4:3 material with gray bars........not happy because this is about 25% of total view time, the rest is full screen HD...







Obviously it will be stretched/zoomed from now on. Set had about 150 hours before I started to use the gray bars, now it has about 360 hours and I just noticed the IR on white/light backgrounds yesterday.


I watched full screen for about 12 hours yesterday and I am not seeing it diminish. Being this is a Panasonic, I can't put it on a "snow" screen because it blanks out.


I guess my question now is, being that this was 4:3 with gray bars, would it be possible to try and reverse the image for awhile and see if it speeds up recovery? I was thinking about putting up the gray bars with black content for a few hours..........would this be the right way to approach this?


Thanks for the help,


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lifesun* /forum/post/21418258
> 
> 
> I originally posted this in the ST30 thread, but I realized it may be better to post this here. Have owned several plasmas in the past and NEVER had IR/Burn in issues until this new Panasonic ST30.....
> 
> 
> Long story short, I have IR from watching 4:3 material with gray bars........not happy because this is about 25% of total view time, the rest is full screen HD...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously it will be stretched/zoomed from now on. Set had about 150 hours before I started to use the gray bars, now it has about 360 hours and I just noticed the IR on white/light backgrounds yesterday.
> 
> 
> I watched full screen for about 12 hours yesterday and I am not seeing it diminish. Being this is a Panasonic, I can't put it on a "snow" screen because it blanks out.
> 
> 
> I guess my question now is, being that this was 4:3 with gray bars, would it be possible to try and reverse the image for awhile and see if it speeds up recovery? I was thinking about putting up the gray bars with black content for a few hours..........would this be the right way to approach this?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help,



This indeed would be one way to go about it, but it would be nice to vary up the color on those bars from time to time. If you just keep it on gray, it's still not getting even color wear, even though it's getting in some image wear to help the balance.


That said, if you create a 20-/120-color slideshow with a 4:3 frame where there's black in the middle and picture on the sides, I think the effect will speed up much more hastily. I'd say that 50/60 hours of this would be your mark.


What might end up happening, as you'll see, is the IR will kick in and your sides will actually end up darker than the middle, but that's good. Eventually that IR will either fade or the black bar sides for HD channel commercials and stuff will help that balance.


I still need to do this with our downstairs TV, but I need like 1,500 hours of that for it to balance out.


----------



## lifesun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21418335
> 
> 
> This indeed would be one way to go about it, but it would be nice to vary up the color on those bars from time to time. If you just keep it on gray, it's still not getting even color wear, even though it's getting in some image wear to help the balance.
> 
> 
> That said, if you create a 20-/120-color slideshow with a 4:3 frame where there's black in the middle and picture on the sides, I think the effect will speed up much more hastily. I'd say that 50/60 hours of this would be your mark.
> 
> 
> What might end up happening, as you'll see, is the IR will kick in and your sides will actually end up darker than the middle, but that's good. Eventually that IR will either fade or the black bar sides for HD channel commercials and stuff will help that balance.
> 
> 
> I still need to do this with our downstairs TV, but I need like 1,500 hours of that for it to balance out.



Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I figured what the heck, I am running the set right now with the gray bars on the sides and a black screen for awhile to see if it helps. I still can't believe that I am having this issue, but as I have been reading, others are also having IR issues with the 2011 Panasonics. I had an LGPV450 before this, and my wife was sick one day and watched about 9 -12 hours of 4:3 DVD with black bars..........no IR at all......


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lifesun* /forum/post/21418449
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I figured what the heck, I am running the set right now with the gray bars on the sides and a black screen for awhile to see if it helps. I still can't believe that I am having this issue, but as I have been reading, others are also having IR issues with the 2011 Panasonics. I had an LGPV450 before this, and my wife was sick one day and watched about 9 -12 hours of 4:3 DVD with black bars..........no IR at all......



Hey, it happens. I have IR issues with my 2011 Samsung, so... not everyone is immune to it.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

You need to be careful from day one, but if you have a family it`s very difficult.


I have just passed my 100hr burn-in on my LG 50PK590 , I wish you could crop a 4:3 program, as zoom only seems to work when the black bars on the top, instead of on the sides like 4:3, I use VLC player on my notebook and most of my old sci-fi series are in 4:3 and i crop the centre to 16:9 and it works great for most stuff.


I have just started playing my 360 today, just got Crysis2 , I have been limiting myself to 30min and then i run the white screen option for a couple of minutes, so far so good.


Good Luck Guys.


John.


----------



## sgt_slap_a_hoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *siqniz* /forum/post/21358973
> 
> 
> I'd feel guilty w/ out posting my break-in experience:
> 
> 
> I bought my Panny 50s30 last week saturday(12/10/2011). After reading the thread extensively and thoroughly. I watching the TV when at home, low light to where my apt is located and when I was sleep or at work I ran the RGB slides provided on this forum. Using the menu I can tell there is mild IR esp using the DLNA server where the menu screen is static and fairly bright. after every day the IR time would diminish with each day. Finally the last 2 days I played some GoW3 for about an 1 hour. mega minor IR. Next day I played for 2, nothing unless your face was in the tv looking at 45degree angle seriously. The slides work. I'm a first time Plasma owner. No regrets, I love this TV games play flawlessly clear no blur and I'm a heavy gamer SSIV:AE mainly. Picture is clean as it can be. I calibrated using the tools on this site. It works, only turned down the Contrast and Brightness to


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I have just passed my 100hr on my LG 50" , I have been playing Crysis2 on my 360, I limit it to a max of 30mins , and then i run the built in white screen for 5 mins after i finish, I have yet to see any burn-in or image retention , Is there a colour that shows it up?


Thanks


John.


----------



## esfan_adam

Hello,


I just purchased the Samsung 64D7000 but had to lay it on its side to transport it home. I have read that it is not a good idea to do this, and that I need to wait at least 24 hours before powering it on. Is there any truth behind that? Will the longevity of my new plasma be affected? Should I just return it and buy another and have it delivered?


Also, should I be breaking in this plasma? If so, any recommendations as to what it the best process for this would be highly appreciated.


Thanks,

Adam


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I have to say i have never heard this before, did you buy tv or a refrigerator










You will be fine, you have a years warranty to fall back on.


----------



## dlplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *esfan_adam* /forum/post/21424182
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I just purchased the Samsung 64D7000 but had to lay it on its side to transport it home. I have read that it is not a good idea to do this, and that I need to wait at least 24 hours before powering it on. Is there any truth behind that? Will the longevity of my new plasma be affected? Should I just return it and buy another and have it delivered?
> 
> 
> Also, should I be breaking in this plasma? If so, any recommendations as to what it the best process for this would be highly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adam




Probably 8 hours I would say, but that's only because of the cold weather. In summer it wouldn't matter. Regarding transporting it laying flat - it's never a good idea because plasmas are glass and large sheets of glass are much more liable to cracking/shattering in that position. That said, if you got it to your home alright and it works then you're fine - though I would go over the screen carefully with a flashlight to doublecheck there's no small cracks.


----------



## Tathanen

Apologies if this has been discussed in the last... 115 pages, but does anyone have any experience with canceling-out pillarbox burn in?


I've got a Panasonic V10, had it for at least a year now (thousands upon thousands of hours of use, easily), and I've got noticeable permanent image retention in the 4:3 pillarbox areas. We always use the brightest of the gray bars when watching 4:3 content, barring when my wife went through a few seasons of old TV shows a few months back. And now, on light scenes in widescreen content, the pillarbox areas are noticeably brighter than the rest of the screen. Presumably brighter because those areas have been used less, and are thus less aged?


I figured hey, if black bars did this, maybe white bars could even them out? If the middle section of my screen is slightly older in usage-time, maybe I can artificially age the sides of the screen with gray or white bars, with the center black? So I started doing it overnight with the gray bars my TV can produce, and more recently with pure-white bars in a PNG I load via my PS3.


Whenever I leave the TV like this, things do seem better for a while immediately afterwards. But it never sticks. Is this even a doable thing, what I'm trying? Do I just need to really do it for a LONG time? Like go on vacation for a week and leave the white bars up for 150 hours?


Anyone else have this issue, and attempt to fix it like this?


[Edit] Haha wow, I never would've thought that someone asked this very question on this very page yesterday. Sorry for not scrolling up!


Alternating color bars though, eh? Would pure-white bars not handle it?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

A nice little guide to image retention and burn in.


John.

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_8.html


----------



## SantosLH

Happy New Year all.


I posted this in the official thread for my tv but probably more appropriate here; is there an online break in/calibration video I can run on my computer while connected to the tv rather than making a disk? What about using a screensaver that cycles red/white/blue/white/green/white?


----------



## whipit

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SantosLH* 
Happy New Year all.


I posted this in the official thread for my tv but probably more appropriate here; is there an online break in/calibration video I can run on my computer while connected to the tv rather than making a disk? What about using a screensaver that cycles red/white/blue/white/green/white?
You can use a USB flash drive or SD card, it will save energy/wear on your PC.

Attachment 232591 


Here's the small image set. Just unzip drag and drop to the drive, you can leave them in the root folder.

 

BreakIn_Images.zip 7.6904296875k . file


----------



## SantosLH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whipit* /forum/post/21425835
> 
> 
> You can use a USB flash drive or SD card, it will save energy/wear on your PC.
> 
> Attachment 232591
> 
> 
> Here's the small image set. Just unzip drag and drop to the drive, you can leave them in the root folder.



Thanks I appreciate it. I bought a 720p and I couldn't figure out how to play the slide show resized by the tv, so I resized the images myself.


The right most column of cells is only half or less as bright as the rest. Is this something that gets fixed by the break in, or should I return the set?


----------



## whipit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SantosLH* /forum/post/21426120
> 
> 
> Thanks I appreciate it. I bought a 720p and I couldn't figure out how to play the slide show resized by the tv, so I resized the images myself.
> 
> 
> The right most column of cells is only half or less as bright as the rest. Is this something that gets fixed by the break in, or should I return the set?



Not sure. Maybe it's the sub pixel structure. The subpixels are usually laid out blue/green/red left to right so maybe you are just seeing the end of the row. Or the tv's pixel orbiter is on and it uses that space to alternate the pixels, just guessing here. Maybe you can post your make/model here or in it's thread and get someone with that model to check theirs.


----------



## SantosLH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whipit* /forum/post/21426338
> 
> 
> Not sure. Maybe it's the sub pixel structure. The subpixels are usually laid out blue/green/red left to right so maybe you are just seeing the end of the row. Or the tv's pixel orbiter is on and it uses that space to alternate the pixels, just guessing here. Maybe you can post your make/model here or in it's thread and get someone with that model to check theirs.



With my nose right up to the tv, on the slides you gave me, on the red I can see the last column, but it is not as bright as the rest. On the blue, it kind of fades from the 8th to last column, with the very last 3 columns not on at all. On the green, the second to last column isn't fully lit. If it does go blue/green/red (and it looks like it does), then there should be two columns not on when blue is on screen, correct? And the red should be fully bright on the last column. And the green 2nd to last column should be fully bright instead of kind of flickering.


It's a Samsung pn43D450A2. I'll head over to the thread and post as well. Thanks for your help.


EDIT: Nevermind. It seems to be an issue with the slide, probably caused by my resizing. When I switched from slideshow to a single red slide, then zoomed in 2x, the last column of pixels showed fully bright. I'll resize the slides again a little wider than 1024, that should take care of it.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Hello everybody! This is my first post here. I've been lurking and reading for a while. Thinking about plasma but I do have a concern about burn-in.


What partly causes me concern, I think, is that the subject of "burn-in" seems to be a bit muddled or unclear. After searching on this subject, I have about given up on finding some very detailed, scientific explanations about exactly what is happening in terms of "image retention" or "burn-in."

(Maybe the manufacturers don't want us to know the details?)


For example, searching on Google has led me to various articles talking about the subject, and pretty much all the articles I've found tend to be targeted toward the "uneducated" consumer. The tone seems to be "don't worry little Timmy, burn-in isn't "much" of a "problem" anymore." And then they go on to "define" burn-in. Here are some of the ideas I'm getting:


Burn-in is "uneven phosphor aging." (If so, how can this be helped?)


Burn-in is "permanent 'damage' to the phosphor". (What exactly do they mean by damage? Are they equating damage with an accelerated form of normal aging, or is normal aging a distinct thing from this 'damage'?) In other words, is this permanent damage a by-product of turning the contrast up too brightly, and thus does something negative and irreversible to the actual 'cell'? Or does the higher contrast simply exaggerate the natural aging process?


I've read some seemingly conflicting advice about the "break-in" period where the phosphor has to have time to "settle" (whatever 'settle' means).

I've read the following suggestions:


1. Keep contrast and brightness low for the break-in period.

Question: Is this implying that phosphors that are too bright may cause "irreversible damage?"


2. Use slides to age the phosphors evenly, but it's okay to turn the contrast to 100.

Question: Is this implying that "burn-in" is simply nothing more than exaggerated or uneven aging? And that by having the contrast turned up, we can create more "age" in a shorter amount of time?


3. Use slides to age the phosphors evenly, but keep the contrast and brightness low. Is this idea taking the "average" of the first two?



I would like to understand this subject much better than I currently do. I'm not satisfied with simply repeating to people "what I read on the internets." lol I'm thinking that if we understand the processes and distinctions, then the "what to do about it" will naturally fall into place and each person can easily make more informed decisions about what to do next.


I apologize for the length of this post. Could someone point me to some good info on this topic, or can someone enlighten me?












Thank you!


----------



## BillKen

Questions 2 & 3 - I have the same exact questions. Some posts say keep settings midway for break-in and some say 100 contrast. I'd like to know too since I'm sitting here fretting over it as my GT30 enters it's 2nd hour of slides.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Since the whole point of the 100hr+ burn in is to age the phosphor evenly, you would think, put contrast and brightness up to 100 percent and it will age quicker.


But apart from the undue strain on the tv`s electronics, what if you go out while running the burn-in dvd and for some reason it all goes wrong and you get a menu burn into the screen, or your wife or kids switch to a channel with blank bars or a logo, at 100% contrast/brightness it is going to be a lot harder to remove the burn in, than if you had the tv at contrast 50%


John.


----------



## ryder_78

After the burn-in process is deemed to be completed, what sort of things we can do to the TV apart from turning up the brightness and contrast on the settings? Can we watch a 16.9 movie consistently for days or weeks(with the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen) after burn-in is completed?


Currently I have about 30 hours on the TV. Personally I don't know what I am supposed to do after the break-in period(I presume it's 100 hours).


I did not run any slides on the TV and just played a wide range of movie content on it, mostly in full screen. Yes, I have read the recommendations on the proper way to break in a plasma TV.


Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I have at least 150-200hrs on the tv now, but i am still paranoid about burn in, I still will not watch anything with black bars, or logos without using zoom.


I have started playing my xbox 360, I limit myself to 30mins, and then run the white screen for 3-5mins, also last thing at night before i turn off the tv.


I have heard that up to 1000hrs might be needed to really age the plasma`s phosphor , and i will most like do this, as i am use to watching everything stretched with zoom now, people look fat when not zoomed now










When i do start watching tv with black bars and logo`s i will keep an eye out for burn in.


Is there a colour that i can use to check for image retention or burn-in?


Thanks


John.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Thanks for the responses guys! Ahem... you were supposed to answer MY question, not ask more questions! lol juuuuuust kidddding. *sigh*



Yeah... I find this whole topic kinda funny in how the general conversation goes.


Bob: Don't worry about burn-in. With these new sets, it's a non-issue!


Tom: Alright! I'm gonna go watch a movie!


Bob: Wellllll... you might wanna hold off on that 'till about 100 hours. Maybe 150 hours. Well, maybe 200 hours would be the best thing. heh... heh...


Tom: Oh. Why's that?


Bob: Burn-in.


The next day...



Tom: Isn't burn in just uneven phosphor aging?


Bob: Well yeah, but it can be permanent.


Tom: ... ... ... How can aging NOT be permanent Bob?


lol


More seriously though, I'd like to know:


How would you define the following terms (within the context of plasma)?:



Burn-in


Break-in


Phosphor settling


Phosphor wear


Phosphor aging


Phosphor damage


Permanent Damage


Image retention



And so on... just working toward clarity.







After all, this site is called "audio video S C I E N C E!" C'mon you scientists!! Where are 'ye??


lol kidding kidding. Thanks again tho!


----------



## james4523

I am in the processes if returning an LED and going to Plasma. I am most likely going to get the Panasonic GT30. This thread is a bit overwhelming since this is my first read through.


That said, what are the best things I can do with my Plasma TV from day 1 to avoid IR/burn in?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I read this thread from post 1, it took me a day, I recommend you do that and then ask few more specific questions.


John.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *james4523* /forum/post/21435215
> 
> 
> I am in the processes if returning an LED and going to Plasma. I am most likely going to get the Panasonic GT30. This thread is a bit overwhelming since this is my first read through.
> 
> 
> That said, *what are the best things I can do with my Plasma TV from day 1 to avoid IR/burn in?*


----------



## james4523




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21435350
> 
> 
> I read this thread from post 1, it took me a day, I recommend you do that and then ask few more specific questions.
> 
> 
> John.



I hear you, its just a lot of info to take in. My most specific question would be how to actually enable the Sliders on the TV. Is it a program that Panasonic offers on their units, or do I have to purchase a DVD to run the Slider on screen.


Thanks,


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

If your tv can do a slideshow of photo`s from a usb memory stick, look for the download "BreakIn_Images.zip" on post 3438


If you look though the entire thread, you will find links to downloadable dvd images so you can use you dvd player.


EDIT : Though i recommend you just watch you TV, just use the zoom function to remove the black bars and channel logo`s , before you know it you 100-200hr break-in will be done, but i really think a 1000hrs is more like it, that`s what i am going for, I am at around 160hrs myself.


John.


----------



## undecided




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21245038
> 
> 
> You are loosing valuable time with your precious new TV. I would just watch full screen content for the first 100 hours, no letter bars (top AND side) stretch all content if you have to and avoid the same logo, etc. in the same spot for the first 100 hours. THEN I would calibrate it, use D-Nice's settings, then adjust to your personal preference. I would re-adjust the settings after a few months and then a year as most sets seem to change after time.
> 
> 
> I would highly recommend a good calibtration DVD/Blu-Ray. They are soooo easy to use and some even come with colored filters to use for the tint/color. They are not that expensive. This will let you dial the set into more of what you personnally feel is best as not everyone will want their set exactly to what D-nice has just because everyone is different. But his settings are a great starting point. The calibration DVD lets you fine tune the set over the course of the sets life. And then you can use the settings for starting points for other inputs (e.g. the cable/satellite).



So I like the sound of this advice (I can watch the TV immediately - and then adjust using D-Nice settings and 'adjustment' Blu-Rays). However the folks in the Panasonic 2011 Settings thread are pretty adamant that you MUST run the slides for the first 100 hours to get the benefit of the D-Nice's setting.


New 55VT30 being delivered this afternoon - still trying to decide whether to run the slides for first hundred hours (using suggested settings) or not.......


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Hi.


I have never heard of this Panasonic D-Nice setting, and quite a few Panasonic user have posted on this thread, I will have to look into it, though a plasma screen is a plasma screen, some have a slightly different gas mixture that i have heard can reduce burn-in.


Have a read of the thread below, D-Nice is mentioned a couple of times and only really applies to slides.


John.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/plasma-tvs/...0-st30-12.html


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Also if you decided to just watch you TV to burn it in, you should not leave the TV on without it being supervised, in case an program comes on with black bars, or the wife or kids turn on a channel with non-translucent channel logo, I avoid them all, and just zoom them out.


I worry that if i used a dvd or a slideshow to burn in the TV, and you left the tv for a couple of hours or overnight, if for some reason, the dvd or slideshow stopped say a power spike, and a menu graphic or similar got burnt into the screen i would not be happy.


John.


----------



## undecided

Thanks for the link.


Have a look at this 'Official 2011 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread'

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1371710


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I am nt 100% certain what he is doing, is he ageing the screen so that the expert setting he gives will give you the best picture.


Also the slideshow setting, turning off, noise reduction and edge enhancement, ect, is just to make the slides give the purest picture.


It seems like a lot of hard work to me.


If you cannot be bothered just watch you TV, while it burns in, just be careful as i mentioned in previous posts about black bars and channel logo`s


I was going to buy a Spyder 3 display calibrator for my notebook to calibrate my screen, And i found a guide that allows you to use you Spyder 3 to calibrate you Plasma TV`s screen, by using special free software.


My TV has special THX mode`s but i dont use them, I just use the default auto power saver mode, and auto picture management controlled by the sensor on the front of the TV and i am quite happy.


John.

*EDIT : Have you researched "Horizontal Line Bleed" that will do you head in.*



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *undecided* /forum/post/21435842
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> 
> Have a look at this 'Official 2011 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread'
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1371710


----------



## james4523




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21435665
> 
> 
> If your tv can do a slideshow of photo`s from a usb memory stick, look for the download "BreakIn_Images.zip" on post 3438
> 
> 
> If you look though the entire thread, you will find links to downloadable dvd images so you can use you dvd player.
> 
> 
> EDIT : Though i recommend you just watch you TV, just use the zoom function to remove the black bars and channel logo`s , before you know it you 100-200hr break-in will be done, but i really think a 1000hrs is more like it, that`s what i am going for, I am at around 160hrs myself.
> 
> 
> John.



Thank you, that answers it perfectly.


----------



## james4523

Also for the first 100 hours, would would you consider "too long" for a logo like Fox or ABC to be on the TV for? Are we talking hours or just minutes? I am not sure zooming would totally block out a logo on screen, so I am curious as to how careful I should be.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

On my LG, when zooming i can move the window up and down, I have yet to find a logo i cannot zoom out, though some are a lot farther down the screen than others










Beware of news channels with a ticker bar on the bottom of the screen and a logo on the top, I zoom them both out.


My biggest problem is programs with black bars on the sides, I cannot zoom this out, so i change the channel.


A lot of TV`s can make the black bars grey, I read a few posts back of an Panasonic owner, who used the grey bars and still had bad burn-in.


John.


EDIT : On how long a logo can stay on the screen without causing burn-in depends on the logo, some are solid and some are transparent, I don't really know, how long is a piece of string, there is a link around here about a study where they kept a game menu on the screen for 48 hours and they were able to remove it, see link below.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...8Q51lA&cad=rja 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *james4523* /forum/post/21436092
> 
> 
> Also for the first 100 hours, would would you consider "too long" for a logo like Fox or ABC to be on the TV for? Are we talking hours or just minutes? I am not sure zooming would totally block out a logo on screen, so I am curious as to how careful I should be.


----------



## benneyb

All - new to plasma's and cd/dvd burning, so apologies for the basic question.


How do I burn a working copy of a DVD of the break in slides? I went to the link in the first post, downloaded and burned the ISO image file, but it doesn't play on my Oppo BDP-93. Should I have used a CD-R disc instead?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Is this the file you downloaded, see link below, if so try a free burning software like imageburn , make certain to click verify.

http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa..._DVD_R_ISO.zip 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benneyb* /forum/post/21436416
> 
> 
> All - new to plasma's and cd/dvd burning, so apologies for the basic question.
> 
> 
> How do I burn a working copy of a DVD of the break in slides? I went to the link in the first post, downloaded and burned the ISO image file, but it doesn't play on my Oppo BDP-93. Should I have used a CD-R disc instead?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## benneyb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21436450
> 
> 
> Is this the file you downloaded, see link below, if so try a free burning software like imageburn , make certain to click verify.
> 
> http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa..._DVD_R_ISO.zip



Yes, that is the file. I tried burning it with the standard program that my Vista 64x OS has, there is an icon to "burn disc" in explorer. Shouldn't this work as well?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I just burn the dvd myself using Windows built in burner and the dvd played fine in my blu-ray, I suppose you extracted the two files from the zip file you download and then double clicked on the 450mb one to start the Windows built in burner?


John.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benneyb* /forum/post/21436923
> 
> 
> Yes, that is the file. I tried burning it with the standard program that my Vista 64x OS has, there is an icon to "burn disc" in explorer. Shouldn't this work as well?


----------



## whipit

Here is a set of images that you can load onto a USB stick or SD card, no need to fire up a player since the tv has one built in









Attachment 232930 


These are the same images extracted from the DVD ISO file.

 

BreakIn_Images.zip 7.6904296875k . file


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *undecided* /forum/post/21435722
> 
> 
> So I like the sound of this advice (I can watch the TV immediately - and then adjust using D-Nice settings and 'adjustment' Blu-Rays). However the folks in the Panasonic 2011 Settings thread are pretty adamant that you MUST run the slides for the first 100 hours to get the benefit of the D-Nice's setting.
> 
> 
> New 55VT30 being delivered this afternoon - still trying to decide whether to run the slides for first hundred hours (using suggested settings) or not.......



I really hope people are not using D-Nice's settings and then saying that is it lets watch TV. D-Nice's settings are based on what HE thinks looks best on HIS set. Every set is different and every person's eyes/personal taste are different. You should use his settings and then go into each one and change them up/down to see if you like it better personally. Adjust the set to your personal taste and what you want it to look like when watching the set. Please don't use his settings and leave it at that, tweak and adjust until you like what you see. YOU are going to be the one watching it every day, not D-Nice.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Howdy! Well I've got some info that may enlighten some of ya'll!



The term "burn-in" is pretty vague. It's the layman's word to describe ANY form of image retention that he/she doesn't understand.


Image retention may be the effect of a number of things. I'll list them below:


1. short-term "IR" may be caused by a stored electric charge. This should go away shortly.


2. longer-term "IR" may be caused by the degradation of the magnesium oxide layer that lies between the electrode and the plasma cell. This MgO can

(somehow) get onto the phosphor and interfere with the phosphors ability to produce light. My understanding is that this degradation is caused by high-energy interactions between the electricity and gas. Somehow. (I'm still researching). This MgO/phosphor interference effect can lessen over time because the MgO slowly "evens out" among the cells due to the cells' connected nature. (sorry for the vagueness. I'm learning.)


3. other long-term "IR" is the effect of uneven phosphor wear. This can be evened back out eventually (probably depends on how creative you are).



Now, I've heard some people talk about a "permanent" burn-in, but the 3 definitions above don't necessarily mean permanent. I've read one of D-Nice's post where (I believe) he said there are 4 types of image retention. I'm not sure tho. I'm running low on sleep right now. Sorry for type-o's, misspellings and rambling. Good night! ZZzzzzzzZZZzzzz



P.S. I'm considering making my own break-in slides that only contain white, black, and shades of gray. My rationale for doing this is to avoid using color slides. If you were to fall asleep with your TV on, and a slide gets stuck on the color green for 8 hours straight, well... what ya gonna do? Just an idea.


P.P.S. For those of your who say slides aren't necessary. You are correct. For those of you who say they ARE.. you are correct.







Depends on how much of a stickler for picture quality you are. Night! ZZZzzzzzzz


----------



## j0nnyfive

More info I found in another thread for your viewing pleasure:


I quote this from the user "xrox":


"There are actually 4 types of image retention on Plasma displays. In order of probability:


1 - Phosphorescence - the long afterglow of the phosphors, can be seen as very slightly brighter areas with the panel off


2 - Residual Wall Charge - reduces the discharge delay making the pixel brighter than normal, can only be seen on a low apl or all black screen


3 - MgO sputtering - high energy discharge sputters the Magnesium Oxide material onto the phosphor and to adjacent cells causing either a darkening of the pixel on a white screen or brightening on a dark screen


4 - Phosphor aging - solarization of the phosphor material causes permanent darkening of the pixel"



Isn't that just NEAT!?!??


----------



## benneyb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21438685
> 
> 
> I just burn the dvd myself using Windows built in burner and the dvd played fine in my blu-ray, I suppose you extracted the two files from the zip file you download and then double clicked on the 450mb one to start the Windows built in burner?
> 
> 
> John.



Hmm. Inside the zip file I have is only an ISO file. If I "explore" that with WinRar, I see a VIDEO_TS folder, and a number of files inside that folder - nothing close to a 450MB file though.


The zip file is called WEBAPALOOZA_S_PLASMA_SLIDES_V120.zip - is this what you have as well?


----------



## benneyb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whipit* /forum/post/21438826
> 
> 
> Here is a set of images that you can load onto a USB stick or SD card, no need to fire up a player since the tv has one built in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attachment 232930
> 
> 
> These are the same images extracted from the DVD ISO file.



Thanks, but I don't actually have the set yet. Was considering the Samsung or Panny plasmas, and wanted to burn a disc and make sure it works, prior to purchase. I may just wait till after CES, as the new Panny's sound promising. The cracking screen issue has scared me a bit re. Samsung.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Mine is called "_Breakin_DVD_R_ISO.zip" and contains an iso called "EA_BREAKIN_DVD.ISO"



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benneyb* /forum/post/21440700
> 
> 
> Hmm. Inside the zip file I have is only an ISO file. If I "explore" that with WinRar, I see a VIDEO_TS folder, and a number of files inside that folder - nothing close to a 450MB file though.
> 
> 
> The zip file is called WEBAPALOOZA_S_PLASMA_SLIDES_V120.zip - is this what you have as well?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21408818
> 
> 
> I would not leave your tv like that for too long as it will be putting a lot of stress on the electronics and may shorten it`s life.



Yes,even i feel like wise.Especially those living in hot or tropical regions,running new expensive tv's 24x7,that too without aircons running which are wall mounted,Means weakening all caps and Ics in the power section.

We all want a nice HD plasma Tv at the end of the day,And not a broken down tv !


----------



## youngwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SantosLH* /forum/post/21426478
> 
> 
> With my nose right up to the tv, on the slides you gave me, on the red I can see the last column, but it is not as bright as the rest. On the blue, it kind of fades from the 8th to last column, with the very last 3 columns not on at all. On the green, the second to last column isn't fully lit. If it does go blue/green/red (and it looks like it does), then there should be two columns not on when blue is on screen, correct? And the red should be fully bright on the last column. And the green 2nd to last column should be fully bright instead of kind of flickering.
> 
> 
> It's a Samsung pn43D450A2. I'll head over to the thread and post as well. Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind. It seems to be an issue with the slide, probably caused by my resizing. When I switched from slideshow to a single red slide, then zoomed in 2x, the last column of pixels showed fully bright. I'll resize the slides again a little wider than 1024, that should take care of it.



Did you manage to get the right size for the slides? I also bought a 720p TV (PN43D450) and can replicate your issue.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Dont you just need to resize them to 1280x720 for a 720p screen, though an 1080p and 720p have the same aspect ratio "1.78:1 - 16:9" , so it must be a problem with the TV filling the screen totally.


John.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *youngwolf* /forum/post/21449344
> 
> 
> Did you manage to get the right size for the slides? I also bought a 720p TV (PN43D450) and can replicate your issue.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Howdy everybody!


I just wanted to run this idea by anybody in here to get some opinions either yea or nay.


This is my "official" (ahem) break-in procedure (for ME! I'm not suggesting this for anybody unless I find that it works fantastically):



1. Prep the TV (low contrast, low brightness, neutral settings, etc) per Panasonic's recommendations. (I want to follow their instructions so if something happens they can't point their finger at me. lol)


2. Let the TV run my slide show. My slide show consists of 96 slides that contain black, white, and 47 shades of gray. The pattern that will repeat is

"Very dark gray, medium dark gray, medium light gray, very light gray, black, black, black, black." This pattern will cycle through all the different shades until white is reached, then it will start over.


3. I will let the slide show run at night while I sleep. So it will run 8 hours per night. I will accumulate 500 hours of "slide show time" in all. I will "be careful" while I use the TV during this time, and continue to be "careful" until about 1000 hours have been reached. (By careful, I don't mean paranoid. )


Any other ideas?


My rationale for my slide show is this:


In the middle of the night, if the slide show gets stuck, I have a...


50% chance the slide will be black.

25% chance the slide will be a dark gray.

24% chance the slide will be a light gray.

1% chance the slide will be perfectly white.

0% chance the slide will be green. 


I also agree with the "more is better than less" idea of: 250 hour minimum, 1000 max. So I'm going to run the slides for 500 hours (not continuously. The TV will rest plenty of time between each bout).


I also agree with the idea of keeping settings low during the break-in (i.e. contrast = 50, etc).



Any thoughts from calibrators/enthusiasts in here is much appreciated!


Thanks!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j0nnyfive* /forum/post/21450114
> 
> 
> Howdy everybody!
> 
> 
> I will let the slide show run at night while I sleep. So it will run 8 hours per night. I will accumulate 500 hours of "slide show time" in all. I will "be careful" while I use the TV during this time, and continue to be "careful" until about 1000 hours have been reached. (By careful, I don't mean paranoid. )
> 
> 
> I also agree with the "more is better than less" idea of: 250 hour minimum, 1000 max. So I'm going to run the slides for 500 hours (not continuously. The TV will rest plenty of time between each bout).
> 
> 
> I also agree with the idea of keeping settings low during the break-in (i.e. contrast = 50, etc).
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts from calibrators/enthusiasts in here is much appreciated!
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Hi,

Can i suggest you one thing here if you have a BD player or a DTH HD set top box just watch programs with video content filling the entire screen.That's it.And set contrast,brightness,sharpness & colour to your liking.

And in case you get image retention only then clean it up by running your colour slides.By doing so you will save lot of elec power and also prevent you plasma panel age fast.i.e half life !

Do what i have said for a week or a month,then decide that is best for your tv.I would say don't waste time on dedicated break-in procedure on modern plasmas.


love,

kris.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Totally Agree, just watch your TV, just fill the screen so no black bars or channel logo`s or news channel ticker bars, just zoom them all out.


John.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21450308
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Can i suggest you one thing here if you have a BD player or a DTH HD set top box just watch programs with video content filling the entire screen.That's it.And set contrast,brightness,sharpness & colour to your liking.
> 
> And in case you get image retention only then clean it up by running your colour slides.By doing so you will save lot of elec power and also prevent you plasma panel age fast.i.e half life !
> 
> Do what i have said for a week or a month,then decide that is best for your tv.I would say don't waste time on dedicated break-in procedure on modern plasmas.
> 
> 
> love,
> 
> kris.


----------



## youngwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21449699
> 
> 
> Dont you just need to resize them to 1280x720 for a 720p screen, though an 1080p and 720p have the same aspect ratio "1.78:1 - 16:9" , so it must be a problem with the TV filling the screen totally.
> 
> 
> John.



My TV's resolution is 1024x768 and I resized the slides to these numbers. However, when I run the slides the last column to the right is not lit properly. I have also tried bigger numbers (ie 1025, 1027) with the same or worse results. As the other poster with the same issue stated, if one picture is zoomed in the entire screen is bright as it should be. Not sure if he found a solution because one cannot run the slides with the option "zoom in"(only one picture at time can be zoomed in).


----------



## j0nnyfive

"Totally Agree, just watch your TV, just fill the screen so no black bars or channel logo`s or news channel ticker bars, just zoom them all out.


John.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kris achar View Post

Hi,

Can i suggest you one thing here if you have a BD player or a DTH HD set top box just watch programs with video content filling the entire screen.That's it.And set contrast,brightness,sharpness & colour to your liking.

And in case you get image retention only then clean it up by running your colour slides.By doing so you will save lot of elec power and also prevent you plasma panel age fast.i.e half life !

Do what i have said for a week or a month,then decide that is best for your tv.I would say don't waste time on dedicated break-in procedure on modern plasmas.


love,

kris."




Howdy!,


Thanks for the comments guys! This TV will be used 99% for movies, so it will be a balancing act of managing letterbox bars. lol I'm a big movie buff. I don't even have cable! I use my PC for information/TV shows, and I will use this TV for critical movie viewing. My break-in procedure is mainly to stabilize the colors in a very even way during that first period where color shifts happen often. I'll at least do this for 100 hours just to get it through that "sparkly" period.







I'll see what it needs after 100 hours. Either way, if the half-life on these TVs is 100,000 hours, then I'm not too worried about age.










What would you guys do to keep black bars from imprinting the screen? Pause the movie on a black screen while using gray bars for a while every now and then?










Thanks!


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

A few pages back a Panasonic plasma owner, had bad burn-in off the bars while watching movies, and he used the grey bars, not the black.


John.


----------



## j0nnyfive

"A few pages back a Panasonic plasma owner, had bad burn-in off the bars while watching movies, and he used the grey bars, not the black.


John. "



Hmm.. I wonder if he was over-using the gray bars? Something tells me those gray bars were not really meant to be used WHILE you are watching the movie, but maybe for only brief periods... maybe during the movie's end credits? If you think about it, having your plasma cells firing gray the ENTIRE time may be a bit much. Who knows?


Still, I went looking at TVs today around town at different stores, and I TRIED to like LED. I really did. But, alas, the plasma was so... intoxicating. It's so worth it.







For me anyway.. just sayin'.


----------



## lifesun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j0nnyfive* /forum/post/21454735
> 
> 
> "A few pages back a Panasonic plasma owner, had bad burn-in off the bars while watching movies, and he used the grey bars, not the black.
> 
> 
> John. "
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.. I wonder if he was over-using the gray bars? Something tells me those gray bars were not really meant to be used WHILE you are watching the movie, but maybe for only brief periods... maybe during the movie's end credits? If you think about it, having your plasma cells firing gray the ENTIRE time may be a bit much. Who knows?
> 
> 
> Still, I went looking at TVs today around town at different stores, and I TRIED to like LED. I really did. But, alas, the plasma was so... intoxicating. It's so worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me anyway.. just sayin'.



You may be referring to me regarding the issues that I had with the ST30. After about 150 hours I decided it was safe for my daughter to watch cartoons 4:3 with gray bars instead of stretched, 1 - 2 hours per day .........I was wrong. I had figured gray would be safer than black, and I figured that it would not be an issue because of the hours and hours of 4:3 material with black bars on my LG plasma with no IR/Burnin at all........was not happy at all, so among other issues with the set, the ST30 went back to Amazon.


----------



## Ikari Warrior

So do all plasmas get temporary image retention? I had a Samsung open box plasma that ended up having a defect over the summer and while the picture was great, even after a 10 minute Halo match the scoreboard and HUD would burn into the screen for a few minutes. It wasn't permanent but still very distracting. Do all current models still do this? LED edge lighting has been driving me crazy and would be open to plasma again.


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## j0nnyfive

After doing some reading in this thread, I feel inspired to write this post for newbies. I understand that there have been many newbie articles written before (too many), but this is my attempt to add something new to the discussion. Keep in mind that this is only my OPINION. Do not take what I say as gospel, and it would behoove you to take most people's opinions about plasma with a large, heavy, grain of salt. In other words, plasma TV, a high-performing TV, asks you to be a high-performing person and do your own thinking for yourself. When you read advice in these forums, take time and ask yourself "Does that make sense?"


I entitle this post "The Philosophy of Plasma TV." (I know this sounds goofy, just indulge me here.) Now, time to wax philosophical. I will start this speech by saying:



Television has changed. Back when the old big heavy boxy TVs (CRT) were the norm, life was simple. So many of the options we now take for granted simply were not there. VCR tape players didn't have elaborate menu systems (no static images). Movies were formatted to fit your square screen perfectly (no black bars). Al Gore had not yet given us the Internet to surf from our TVs (using TV as a computer monitor). XBox-360 wasn't around to lower the average person's IQ by about 40 points (Halo). Elder Scrolls video games did not exist (to sit on the screen for hours and hours and days and days). We live in a DIFFERENT time for television.


The line between "TV" and "computer monitor" has become very thin. As the Internet becomes increasingly ubiquitous, TVs have evolved to suit it's needs. Do you remember when you first started hearing about LCD TV? What was LCD popularly used for before it became TV? That's right! Computer monitors on laptop computers. Computer monitors are designed to withstand static images and long hours of use. The invention of LCD TV has allowed many of these computing activities to be spread (safely) to the TV. So, it has become "normal" to expose current day TVs to hours and hours of black bars, 100+ hour video games, lots of graphical menus, web surfing, and the like. In other words, modern day LCD tvs are built to be handled like a computer monitor, safely. Now...


Plasma TV hit the market during what I want to call a "transitional period" in television. Plasma was developed under the philosophy of the older TVs. Guess what? When I played video games on my old CRT, I KNEW that I shouldn't leave the game paused for very long (without turning the TV off)! This was NORMAL. We didn't think of this as a hassle. We thought of it as common sense. TVs were machines that got hot. It was "okay" that this was the case. People weren't paranoid with it (at least nobody I knew).

If image retention DID happen... ah well.. such was life! It lessened with time, and you weren't too picky about it.


Plasma TV was a teeny tiny little bit more prone to burn-in, but that was because it was a PERFORMANCE machine. Superior picture quality came at a price. Many people were willing to pay this price because the picture was incredibly beautiful. You can't get somethin' for nothin'. However, since LCD tvs have been invented, the public's opinion about TV has changed. It has now become normal to EXPECT a TV to handle anything you throw at it. And this is a feature of LCD. Want to play games for days at a time? Go ahead. Want to watch nothing but movies with black bars? Go ahead. (Can you get stuck images on LCD? Maybe, but it is ludicrously rare, I mean, absurdly rare.)


So, why are plasma TVs still sold today? Well, to the people who understand it's capabilities, they are sold for their awesome picture performance. But, plasma manufacturers want to sell to MANY people, so they market them as being "for everyone." It is truly debatable as to whether they ARE for everyone. I say no (because of the current day assumptions of TV use).


The philosophy of plasma TV is of the older TVs. A TV is NOT a computer monitor. A TV is NOT a dedicated gaming station. A TV requires a bit of thoughtful care and it will perform well for you. Everything has a cost. Plasma can produce superior picture quality to LCD and LED, but you have to keep these things in mind. Your kids and wife will expect it to be just like an LCD. Now, are there some LED tvs that can match the (subjective) picture quality of plasma? YES! But, again, everything has a cost (e.g. The Sharp Elite).


If you are thinking about owning a plasma TV, I ask that you keep these things in mind. If you don't expect perfection (absolutely no image retention, etc), and you are willing to keep an eye on it from time-to-time and break it in properly (keep contrast below 50%, no black bars for a period of time, etc), then plasma is for you. It can produce an amazingly film-like picture that will stun you again and again.


Thanks.


P.S. (Yeah, I know, this post was kinda inspired by Donnie Darko and maybe a little Fight Club. Oh well... lol)


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Nice, post j0nnyfive.


My plasma has been left on the default settings , power saver on Auto, and picture on Auto(APS) LG Plasma , contrast is at 95% and brightness at 50% setting are greyed out.


I have have around 175hrs though my burn in period, everything fullscreen, no black/grey bars, channel logo`s or news channel ticker bars, all zoomed out.


I have been playing Crysis2 on my 360 for a max of 30 mins at a time aver the last few days, I have not seen any image-retention, I normally run the white IMS(method) for 3-5mins after gaming just in case.


My biggest headache is horizontal line bleed, though i only see it now and again, game shows are a pain, lots of static horizontal line from score boxes and alike, office blinds are a good one, any bright horizontal line really.


John.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j0nnyfive* /forum/post/21456215
> 
> 
> P.S. (Yeah, I know, this post was kinda inspired by Donnie Darko and maybe a little Fight Club. Oh well... lol)



If it was inspired by Fight Club, you would start your post by saying "The things you own end up owning you."


----------



## j0nnyfive

Thanks Tinderbox!


lol Muffin! I know, right?


I tend to think of plasma as kind of a hobbyist thing. I love film. I want it to be represented as authentically as possible, preserving all the little nuances about how it looks and moves. I'm buying a plasma to replace an HC4000 dlp projector. The projector was simply too big and unwieldy for the room it is in (my living room!







) Also, I love the black levels, contrast, and color quality that can be achieved with plasma. To me, plasma is meant to be set up kind of like a movie projector. It's meant for darker rooms. It's meant to be treated as if it had "limited brightness resources." lol


I think if you need something bright and versatile (i.e. "Just a TV for the fam"), then go with LED! Seriously! I'm not knocking LED tvs at all. In fact, I WANT LED to overtake plasma in picture quality because they are more power efficient, brighter, not prone to burn-in, etc. I would love LED to have the picture quality of plasma. Unfortunately, I cannot afford a Sharp Elite. I'm a po' boy.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Here is something I'm going to start researching:


Question: When people mention the idea of "permanent burn-in," do they

mean. . .


a. Burn-in that is impossible to fix. (this may be what they think they mean)


-or-


b. Burn-in that won't fix itself unless you do something.



Note: When I say "burn-in", I really mean image retention no matter what it's cause or duration.



Any thoughts on this guys/gals? I think I may need some help figuring this one out. Anybody have any inside connections with Panasonic?











To rephrase the question: Is "burn-in" ever possible in the sense that it is IMPOSSIBLE to fix it? And, the more interesting thing to me is what is going on in the screen itself? What are the science/mechanics behind "permanent" burn-in?


----------



## Sooiwt

Hey guys! I'm in the market for a TV, my first Plasma to be precise. I have settled on the Panasonic TC P55GT30 (I MAY go for a 60 if the price is cut enough after CES in the coming weeks).

Anyway, once I purchase my Panny, what is the best or recommended way(s) of burning it in? Is it safe to let it burn-in while I'm at work or sleeping?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sooiwt* /forum/post/21462072
> 
> 
> Hey guys! I'm in the market for a TV, my first Plasma to be precise. I have settled on the Panasonic TC P55GT30 (I MAY go for a 60 if the price is cut enough after CES in the coming weeks).
> 
> Anyway, once I purchase my Panny, what is the best or recommended way(s) of burning it in? *Is it safe to let it burn-in while I'm at work or sleeping?*



Technically, it's never safe to let it burn-in.










As far as breaking it in, the entire thread really talks about it, but just make sure that there aren't any static images on screen ever... be it logos, black bars, or anything with Bruce Willis or Keanu Reeves.


HBO is always a good bet when it comes to a varying 16:9 image with a multitude of colors, but if you're not looking at even color wear, you can always use the scrolling image used for burn-in prevention, or turn your TV to a channel with no signal (with just "snow" on the screen).


This stuff is safe to do while at work or sleeping, as long as you can ensure that what you want on the screen will be on the screen that entire time.


Finally, people recommend that you halve some of the picture settings that normally boast a normally bright or crisp image, like your contrast, brightness, and sharpness settings. That's just a good start for your first 100 hours, simply as a preventative measure.


----------



## Sooiwt

Awesome, thanks muffinmcfluffin!


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j0nnyfive* /forum/post/21460373
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To rephrase the question: Is "burn-in" ever possible in the sense that it is IMPOSSIBLE to fix it?



Most definitely yes, it is impossibleto fix true burn-in!




For some info about the differences between Image Retention, also called IR, and burn-in.

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_8.html 


"The final stage, in which phosphor damage becomes permanent and irreversible, is called Burn-in. This looks very similar to the image retention discussed further above, but is a more serious issue because it is effectively permanent. It occurs when a static image or an image with static portions, particularly a very bright one, is displayed for extended periods with no change. The phosphors become damaged to the point where they can no longer change their color or brightness sufficiently, and a very clear image will be permanently etched into the screen."


----------



## Fuzzybear50




muffinmcfluffin said:


> but just make sure that there aren't any static images on screen ever...
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> By your description, this would include just about every sports broadcast available on major networks.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fuzzybear50* /forum/post/21463419
> 
> 
> By your description, this would include just about every sports broadcast available on major networks.



During the break-in period, yes. This can be remedied by using the zoom settings on your television and cable box, however. It will cut off the corners and borders enough that most score bugs and bottom line tickers will not be visible on the television screen.


----------



## Fuzzybear50




muffinmcfluffin said:


> During the break-in period, yes. This can be remedied by using the zoom settings on your television and cable box, however. It will cut off the corners and borders enough that most score bugs and bottom line tickers will not be visible on the television screen.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I am at about 100 hours now on the 64D8000 and trying to take it easy. The static network logos (Fox/NBC etc......do leave a slight image but it fades away with 10 minutes of snow screen.


----------



## CalWldLif

My 2 cents,

Using low settings of contrast and brightness

will help limit IR.

Running slides at higher contrast and settings will age pixels faster and evenly.

Depending on how your model deals with

volt increases to offset wear to phosphors, it could take a couple thousand hours until

panel is stable and IR will be hard to get.

I highly recommend running slides as much as you can to

get the panel to a wore in stable tube.

On more than one occasion, slides have

shown very strong benefits to pic quality and ir resistance.


----------



## undecided




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21438985
> 
> 
> I really hope people are not using D-Nice's settings and then saying that is it lets watch TV. D-Nice's settings are based on what HE thinks looks best on HIS set. Every set is different and every person's eyes/personal taste are different. You should use his settings and then go into each one and change them up/down to see if you like it better personally. Adjust the set to your personal taste and what you want it to look like when watching the set. Please don't use his settings and leave it at that, tweak and adjust until you like what you see. YOU are going to be the one watching it every day, not D-Nice.




I posted this in the Official Panasonic 2011 Setting Thread - but felt it appropriate to post here as well.


---------

First of all thank you D-Nice for the settings and responding to questions here.


I have to admit I was quite skeptical of the procedure outlined here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1371710 - after all how could one set of settings work well with all TVs of the same size, model number and series?


Anyway I thought I would give it a try - the slides would be a good break in for the panel and then I could try the settings and see what I thought.


So I ran the slides for 100 hours and now after a couple of days using the recommended settings (I wanted to watch a variety of shows/movies/sources before posting) I can only say I am astounded about how good my 55VT30 (MJ series) looks with D-Nice's settings.


I have also tried the various 'adjustment' disks (AVSHD 709/Spears and Munsil/Disney WOW) - everything seems pretty much spot on. The only area I might adjust is brightness - most of the adjustment disks (AVSHD709 and Spears and Munsil) will display the black bar at 18 and I might see a hint of black crush on some material. However Disney WOW shows the Brightness as being spot on.


That said pretty much everything I have watched looks very good - blacks are inky black and the detail/colors look great. I am pleasantly surprised - the 55LE8500 this TV replaced had a phenomenal picture with great blacks (it was a full array local dimming LCD) and great shadow detail. The 55VT30 has an even better picture with D-Nice's settings (and no banding on horizontal/vertical pans - the reason the 55LE8500 went back).


I note D-Nice responded to an earlier question about brightness and the Spear and Munsil disk saying 'Does a brightness setting of 57 cause dither noise on a blank screen? If yes, then 57 is wrong. If no, then keep the setting.'


I am using 55 (the recommended setting) and do see the checkerboard background on the Spears and Munsil Pluge test if I raise the brightness - so maybe 55 is the best setting.


Thanks again D-Nice - very happy with picture after the sllides and using your settings!


----------



## nnarum23

I watched the first Lord of the Rings extended blu ray hoping to mess my TV up so I could get a new one... Needless to say, a little IR with the black bars on top and bottom was gone within a few minutes of regular viewing...


4 hours straight with no permanent damage? You're going to be ok.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

What TV was that with?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nnarum23* /forum/post/21472190
> 
> 
> I watched the first Lord of the Rings extended blu ray hoping to mess my TV up so I could get a new one... Needless to say, a little IR with the black bars on top and bottom was gone within a few minutes of regular viewing...
> 
> 
> 4 hours straight with no permanent damage? You're going to be ok.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Thanks Johnla for that article!



Great info! So, (as I suspected), there IS a "stage" of burn-in that is incurable. The phosphor itself becomes degraded/damaged to the point where it may no longer give off adequate light? I'm wondering how much is known about this "permanent stage".


The article mentioned that the phosphor can't change it's color. Now, it's my understanding that the phosphor does NOT change it's color anyway, am I correct? IOW, red stays red, green stays green, and blue stays blue. I'm wondering if by "phosphor" they meant to say "pixel"? Because it truly is just the pixel, as a whole unit, that changes it's color?


In a previous post I mentioned 4 "types" of burn-in:


1. phosphorescence

2. residual wall charge

3. MgO sputtering

4. phosphor aging


So now, to merge with this information, I have 3 "stages" of burn-in:


1. IR

2. phosphor aging burn-in

3. permanent burn-in



Now, I'm wondering how one would go about mapping the bottom 3 stages with the top 4 types? I would like to somehow reconcile this information to better explain burn-in in a more comprehensive way (without the vagueness and ambiguities of some online articles).


My end goal is not only to more sufficiently explain burn-in, but I want to create a set of burn-in slides or burn-in DVD that is as "perfect" as we can make it (addressing all known issues with this subject). I wish to release these slides (only after sufficient testing and verification) along with a very comprehensive article about the subject. My goal is to be as simple, clear, and accurate as possible, with the end product (that will be FREE) being as efficient, conservative, and precise as possible. I will be as open about every single decision that goes into the product as I possibly can, and it will be open to revision and improvement.


I also want to release "slides" that address "black bars" issues as well.



The difference between what I wish to accomplish and the products that already exist is the depth of explanation and all the reasons for my design choices. I feel that the sideshows/DVDs currently available may be "pretty good", but I'm just not satisfied, and I think we can do better. Some of the decisions that have gone into the current products seem a bit too arbitrary for my taste. I understand that the current products "don't hurt anything", but I wish to improve upon them and make them as free of (seemingly) arbitrary design choices (or mistakes) as possible.


Another goal of mine, is to offer explanations that will leave the user with as few questions/anxieties as possible. Let me give some examples of what I've run into:



- There is a break-in process by D-Nice (great guy for being tremendously giving by the way) which instructs the user to set contrast to 100 (among some other settings). Now, if someone were to research a different article, it would say that "permanent damage" can be caused by having TOO bright of settings for too long. This information seems to conflict, and one isn't given a choice in the matter. Without explanation as to WHY you should set your contrast to 100, the end user has to take a leap of faith with the product they just possibly spent over $2,000 on. This can be nerve-wracking. I'm sure D-Nice knows his stuff, but people don't know D-Nice unless they know him... ya know?


- The slide show that I have found features colored slides that only contain 5 shades of each color. Why 5? (If thousands of shades are possible?) Why 30 seconds per slide? Why use gray slides as well if you are using colors? Why use colors if you are using gray slides? Why are there 2 identical red slides? How do I know these colors are accurate? Are colored slides necessary? Why not more colors such as cyan or magenta? And so on... too many "leaps of faith" with my multi-thousand dollar product are necessary. (Leaps that are not covered by warranty).



Some of my remaining questions include:


1. Solid color vs "snow". Why one over the other? There is fluctuation in the snow, but is fast fluctuation necessary or preferable? And why? For example, if one were to display a white screen (on a low contrast setting) for a limited period of time (say 30 seconds), followed by 1 minute of a black screen, and then repeat... is this just as good or better than showing constant snow? What about a white screen that slowly fades to black over a period of about 3 or 4 minutes? How does that change differ from TV snow? (I can make a slide show of solid colors easier than a slide show of snow. lol) Also, white and black... are shades of gray beneficial? If so, why? And which shades would be best, and how many?



2. Rate of change, duration of a static color, overall brightness level, ratio of on/off times. I would like to know more about how these variables affect the cells.


From what I've gathered so far, what we wish to avoid in a single plasma cell is: Too intense(hot? energetic?) for too long. I'm wondering how intensity and duration affect: phosphorescence, residual wall charge, MgO sputtering, and/or phosphor aging, and how these map on the "temporary to permanent" spectrum.


Thanks guys!


P.S. You may be thinking.. man, this guy is NUTS! Well, I love science. I'm having FUN with this! It's a puzzle!







And remember what the name of this site is.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Just an example of one explanation of burn-in from a website (I don't know how reliable this site is):



"But to digress, burn in, simply put, is a damaged pixel, whose phosphors have been prematurely aged and therefore glow less intensely than those of surrounding pixels on the plasma TV screen. The damaged or "burned in" pixel has developed a "memory" of the color information that was repeatedly fed to it in a static manner over a period of time. And that phosphor color information has actually become SEARED OR ETCHED INTO THE PLASMA TV GLASS. Hence the term, "burn-in."


(emphasis mine).


Really? Glass etching? I'm starting to feel like that woman in the movie "Hackers" that follows the bad guy around where every one of her lines is a question where she sounds confused. lol "Really?? Glass etching?"


----------



## nnarum23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21472274
> 
> 
> What TV was that with?



Panasonic TC-42PX14


And apparently I've had it since 8-2009. Time flies!










PS, for what it's worth, I play Halo Reach and NBA 2k on this thing on a regular basis.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Pl...?player=nnarum 


For proof of the hours/matches I've logged on this TV. Also back through Halo 3 too. 3569 to be exact! and 924 on Reach.


Love plasma, it's too reliable and I'm not going to be able to upgrade soon the way this guy performs.


----------



## Str0ud




Fuzzybear50 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21465703
> 
> 
> During the break-in period, yes. This can be remedied by using the zoom settings on your television and cable box, however. It will cut off the corners and borders enough that most score bugs and bottom line tickers will not be visible on the television screen.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I am at about 100 hours now on the 64D8000 and trying to take it easy. The static network logos (Fox/NBC etc......do leave a slight image but it fades away with 10 minutes of snow screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Fuzzy Bear, Just be careful even when you are done with the break in period. I'm on my 4th, yes 4th, PN64D8000. It's barely over a month old, I was fanatical about the break in and I'm looking at what appears to be a perm burn in of the Cartoon Network HD logo. This was after about an hours worth of viewing Cartoon Network using Zoyd's config and after nearly 200 hours of break in slides.
> 
> 
> One of the other 3 PN64D8000's that I had to send back also developed CN logo burn after break in but that was not the reason it was sent back (peeler).
> 
> 
> I have been a diehard Sammy fan for many years, I have 5 in my house right now of various sizes and types. Sadly this set may have killed my love affair with the company. I've been fighting with this for almost a year now and I'm just tired.
> 
> 
> If anyone wants to lift my spirits and tell me that they have been able to erase a cartoon network logo with something like pixel protector I'd love to hear from you. Meanwhile , does anyone have the president of Carton Network's direct number? I'd like a word.
Click to expand...


----------



## JTdTigerfan

Just bought a panny 60st30 and will be breaking it in with slides.


One question to whoever plays video games on plasmas, will serious IR occur by playing video games/watching regular programs during afternoon/weekends while running slides during the day while at work?


I know to avoid static images (logos, HUD, ect.) but i would like to watch my tv the way it is supposed look and not "stretched".


Anyone ever broke in their plasma this way?


----------



## whipit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTdTigerfan* /forum/post/21481700
> 
> 
> Just bought a panny 60st30 and will be breaking it in with slides.
> 
> 
> One question to whoever plays video games on plasmas, will serious IR occur by playing video games/watching regular programs during afternoon/weekends while running slides during the day while at work?
> 
> 
> I know to avoid static images (logos, HUD, ect.) but i would like to watch my tv the way it is supposed look and not "stretched".
> 
> 
> Anyone ever broke in their plasma this way?



I bought a 50ST30 and played an old xbox game on it for 3 three hour sessions when the tv had about say 30 hours on it using 78 contrast in custom mode and got some hud IR. I watched some programing the next day and it was gone after a few hours. So I'd suggest monitoring for IR on occasion and adjust the amount on game time to full screen viewing to a lower ratio until you get a lot of hours on it. I played the game again for a little while and no IR so YMMV. I try to watch full screen as much as I can and am playing around with Just and Zoom modes when viewing an SD channel, zoom looks better than I expected for SD cable with digital channels, analog SD is too snowy. Oh, I never ran the slides except to occasionally inspect for this years flaws, which it looks fine.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTdTigerfan* /forum/post/21481700
> 
> 
> Just bought a panny 60st30 and will be breaking it in with slides.
> 
> 
> One question to whoever plays video games on plasmas, will serious IR occur by playing video games/watching regular programs during afternoon/weekends while running slides during the day while at work?
> 
> 
> I know to avoid static images (logos, HUD, ect.) but i would like to watch my tv the way it is supposed look and not "stretched".
> 
> 
> Anyone ever broke in their plasma this way?



That's a bit drastic, leaving it on all day? When you finished for the evening just leave it on for a bit on full-screen material.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JTdTigerfan* /forum/post/21481700
> 
> 
> Just bought a panny 60st30 and will be breaking it in with slides.
> 
> 
> One question to whoever plays video games on plasmas, will serious IR occur by playing video games/watching regular programs during afternoon/weekends while running slides during the day while at work?
> 
> 
> I know to avoid static images (logos, HUD, ect.) but i would like to watch my tv the way it is supposed look and not "stretched".
> 
> 
> Anyone ever broke in their plasma this way?



This is the thing that sucks about this whole IR, it is so different per set it is amazing. For example, I have a Pioneer Kuro set and I have played, no lie, 8 hours of the same game non-stop, bright red hud for health/mana, compass, etc. And have never ever even had a hint of IR. I have been doing this since day 1 with the set. I love Pioneer's orbiter, nothing has ever caused IR on this thing. But then you read a post above and someone says they got IR after an hour. Makes me scratch my head, I don't know why the huge discrepency except if each manufacturer is that extremely different.


----------



## JoeBel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21483316
> 
> 
> This is the thing that sucks about this whole IR, it is so different per set it is amazing. For example, I have a Pioneer Kuro set and I have played, no lie, 8 hours of the same game non-stop, bright red hud for health/mana, compass, etc. And have never ever even had a hint of IR. I have been doing this since day 1 with the set. I love Pioneer's orbiter, nothing has ever caused IR on this thing. But then you read a post above and someone says they got IR after an hour. Makes me scratch my head, I don't know why the huge discrepency except if each manufacturer is that extremely different.



I agree, it's frustrating to see some having major problems with IR in that short of a time span. I have a Samsung 5084 that I broke in and a few hundred hours later I never noticed any IR. I don't understand how these quality newer panels are having issues this major, is it just entirely bad luck, is this an actual defect?


One of my biggest fears when buying another plasma is that my gf will fall asleep with it on or something, me I'm not worried about. It's very hard to say to the average person "don't touch our brand new tv for the next few days







". God bless her, she watches this old Sony LCD in our bedroom with the worst clouding/banding you've ever seen and doesn't mind, the horror!!


----------



## JTdTigerfan

Thanks everyone for the response. I will definitely be smart about how i handle the plasma the first 100 hrs. but i do not plan on babying the thing since i do want to enjoy it.


----------



## SantosLH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sooiwt* /forum/post/21462072
> 
> 
> Hey guys! I'm in the market for a TV, my first Plasma to be precise. I have settled on the Panasonic TC P55GT30 (I MAY go for a 60 if the price is cut enough after CES in the coming weeks).
> 
> Anyway, once I purchase my Panny, what is the best or recommended way(s) of burning it in? Is it safe to let it burn-in while I'm at work or sleeping?



I left my tv on running slides through my computer. I couldn't get the slides to run on the complete screen by loading them onto a USB. My computer runs some THX application, which naturally decided for the first time in the 2+ years I've had the computer to have a problem and shut down. Windows helpfully displayed a pop up window informing me that this useless thing is no longer running. So now I have that burned in. If you leave it running while at work/sleeping, make absolutely sure nothing can cause a static image.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Hey everybody,


The most logical slide show idea I have so far is: 1 white slide, 1 black slide.



My rationale for the black and white slide vs. the all white all the time slide is to give the panel "activity" and also to avoid the "static image" situation. An all white screen IS a static image in a way, and so the black screen "rests" the panel between bouts of all white.


By having the overall brightness of the panel set to low (contrast, etc), we are effectively making the all-white slide into a shade of gray. So we are basically controlling how gray the slide is by using contrast and brightness.


Anybody have any thoughts on this idea? I would much appreciate it.


Thanks!



P.S. I also have slides to reverse burn-in the 1.33:1, 1.85:1, and 2.35/39:1 aspect ratios. Does anyone have any experience with correcting uneven wear caused by overuse of aspect ratios?


P.P.S. Also, to correct burned in logos, I'm thinking of a protocol to follow where you hook the TV up to a computer and somehow create a reverse image of the burn-in. You create a custom slide with this reverse image and let it run (should correct the problem). Thoughts? I'll shut up now.


----------



## darksider

Hi all,


I have a problema which I very much don't know how to solve. I did the break on of my plasma as advised here, 200h on low brightness and contrast with the image always streched so that no logos were visible.


Unfortunately I am deaf and as such I have teletex subtitles enabled by default. It is something so natural for me that I didn't even thought about it.


As result at the end of the 200h I noticed that the area where the subtitles use to be is uneven, there is nothing burned there but the area is slightly darker that th rest of the tv. This is very faint and on normal images it can't be noticed but on white background I can spot it.


I put the TV 6 h today on slides, and left it rest for 3h but this is still there.


Is there any way to make this go away and even the screen again?


Of course that in the meantime I have turned off the subtitles and if I manage to recover the screen I will only use them when I am indeed whatching TV.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darksider* /forum/post/21490007
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I have a problema which I very much don't know how to solve. I did the break on of my plasma as advised here, 200h on low brightness and contrast with the image always streched so that no logos were visible.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I am deaf and as such I have teletex subtitles enabled by default. It is something so natural for me that I didn't even thought about it.
> 
> 
> As result at the end of the 200h I noticed that the area where the subtitles use to be is uneven, there is nothing burned there but the area is slightly darker that th rest of the tv. This is very faint and on normal images it can't be noticed but on white background I can spot it.
> 
> 
> I put the TV 6 h today on slides, and left it rest for 3h but this is still there.
> 
> 
> Is there any way to make this go away and even the screen again?
> 
> 
> Of course that in the meantime I have turned off the subtitles and if I manage to recover the screen I will only use them when I am indeed whatching TV.



Since you have switched off the running subtitles,this should start the screen healing process.In one or 2 weeks time this should fade away completely.But if you need teletext & subtitles for convenience then i would suggest you buy a lcd tv.


love,

kris.


----------



## darksider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21490842
> 
> 
> Since you have switched off the running subtitles,this should start the screen healing process.In one or 2 weeks time this should fade away completely.But if you need teletext & subtitles for convenience then i would suggest you buy a lcd tv.
> 
> 
> love,
> 
> kris.



Thanks Kris, it was a great help, I was worried that I would be able to get rid of this.


I have been kicking myself in the last days for not having thought about this before going for a plasma as I did an extensive research about plasmas before buying mine. But using subtitles is just so natural for me that it totally slipped my mind.

Now it is too late to switch for a LED which would cost more than the double of what the plasma cost. Besides I love the plasma image quality, the colours and movement are just so cinema like that is just like having my private own cinema. I have never seen a LED with such image they always look artificial.


I have disabled teletext subtitles which I suspect was the main problem: they are displayed in big black boxes with big white characters inside. I am only using now HD broadcast subtitles which are a lot smaller, they don't stay as much time on screen, their position varies from channel to channel, and they don't have the teletext black box, and even these are only ON when I am indeed seeing TV, instead of always as I used to have before. Hopefully this will be ok, there is not much more I can do.


Thanks once again.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Darksider,


I'm very happy that your problem went away! I think a lot of image retention causes stress for people who aren't used to seeing it (especially after paying all that money). I don't own a plasma yet (going for a 2012 model Panny), but I appreciate what you said about the picture quality being "cinema-like". I've tried to talk myself into getting LED, but plasma's picture just outperforms it every time I see it. I have personally been worried about movies putting black bars on the screen, but I'm happy to find out that MANY movies don't even have black bars! (Not even many of the 1.85:1 aspect ratio movies). Anyway, just wanted to say I'm glad to hear your tv improved!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darksider* /forum/post/21493765
> 
> 
> Thanks Kris, it was a great help, I was worried that I would be able to get rid of this.
> 
> 
> I have been kicking myself in the last days for not having thought about this before going for a plasma as I did an extensive research about plasmas before buying mine. But using subtitles is just so natural for me that it totally slipped my mind.
> 
> Now it is too late to switch for a LED which would cost more than the double of what the plasma cost. Besides I love the plasma image quality, the colours and movement are just so cinema like that is just like having my private own cinema. I have never seen a LED with such image they always look artificial.
> 
> 
> I have disabled teletext subtitles which I suspect was the main problem: they are displayed in big black boxes with big white characters inside. I am only using now HD broadcast subtitles which are a lot smaller, they don't stay as much time on screen, their position varies from channel to channel, and they don't have the teletext black box, and even these are only ON when I am indeed seeing TV, instead of always as I used to have before. Hopefully this will be ok, there is not much more I can do.
> 
> 
> Thanks once again.



Hi,

I understand what you have said,but things are not so grim when it comes to plasma tv.Use it carefully for the first 200hrs or 6 months of regular use.the screen could gradually toughen up.i.e after that period you can watch a 3 hour movie or program at a stretch and then switch to a channel,program or movie which does not have teletext or running stickers or titles.Just give your baby(plasma Tv) sometime to settle down.

My panasonic plasma is about 10 months old now and even i did get IR in the first 100hrs.And believe me those IR were from the pop-up menu from the tv and HD Set top box ! While viewing the programs these would fade off gradually in 10 to 15 minutes time.But now i do not get any IR at all.

So it seems that new plasma should be used very carefully for the first 100hrs and at cold start up.i.e while switching the tv On,Do not allow the screen to display static images for more than a minute or 2.

Better still while switching on and off keep the tv to a tv channel which displays snow.i.e when a tv channel is off air you see white and black dots moving.once you have switched on all the desired gadgets then select the hdmi mode of the concerned equipment.I think you follow what iam saying.


And start enjoying your plasma tv.


Love,

kris.


----------



## raidersb21

Hi guys newbie here. I'm running the evangelos color slides on my new panny 55gt30 with d-nices settings. My TV is letting off a funny smell, dunno if its because its a brand new unit or do i have a dud. Display on the tv is fine tho, just the smell coming from the back. It's not quite a burning smell....but rather something else.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raidersb21* /forum/post/21496537
> 
> 
> Hi guys newbie here. I'm running the evangelos color slides on my new panny 55gt30 with d-nices settings. My TV is letting off a funny smell, dunno if its because its a brand new unit or do i have a dud. Display on the tv is fine tho, just the smell coming from the back. It's not quite a burning smell....but rather something else.



Is it that awesome new TV smell? It might be that.


I'm not being sarcastic about that BTW. They give off this smell of "new" for a little while, and that might be what you're smelling. I don't really know how to describe it though.


----------



## raidersb21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin* /forum/post/21496550
> 
> 
> Is it that awesome new TV smell? It might be that.
> 
> 
> I'm not being sarcastic about that BTW. They give off this smell of "new" for a little while, and that might be what you're smelling. I don't really know how to describe it though.



Could be a new tv smell, just wanted to see if anyone else had this. Thanks tho


----------



## koven

how bad is watching movies with black bars within the first 200h? if i ran color slides in between would it be alright? or should i avoid it all together


----------



## Fuzzybear50




Str0ud said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fuzzybear50* /forum/post/21467369
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Fuzzy Bear, Just be careful even when you are done with the break in period. I'm on my 4th, yes 4th, PN64D8000. It's barely over a month old, I was fanatical about the break in and I'm looking at what appears to be a perm burn in of the Cartoon Network HD logo. This was after about an hours worth of viewing Cartoon Network using Zoyd's config and after nearly 200 hours of break in slides.
> 
> 
> One of the other 3 PN64D8000's that I had to send back also developed CN logo burn after break in but that was not the reason it was sent back (peeler).
> 
> 
> I have been a diehard Sammy fan for many years, I have 5 in my house right now of various sizes and types. Sadly this set may have killed my love affair with the company. I've been fighting with this for almost a year now and I'm just tired.
> 
> 
> If anyone wants to lift my spirits and tell me that they have been able to erase a cartoon network logo with something like pixel protector I'd love to hear from you. Meanwhile , does anyone have the president of Carton Network's direct number? I'd like a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That really sucks and at that point I would have to end my allegiance to Samsung.
> 
> 
> I watched Football all weekend and I can faintly see a Fox logo embedded in the picture. I ran snow screen and slides but it is still there but very faint.
> 
> 
> I am hoping this is not going to be an ongoing issue to where I have to constantly worry about whether the kids have turned off the PS3 or the wife snoozing with a soap opera paused for hours on end. I understand the need for common sense but if this becomes a labor of love, I guess It's back to LED!
Click to expand...


----------



## Mike_grahn

Just purchased the panasonic tc-p42st30 plasma set.


Should I avoid the "full" aspect setting? Avoiding the top and bottom bars during break in?


Should I use Just or Zoom (no bars)?



Is using the factory setting Cinema mode ok to use now or should I get this set calibrated (diy). Any recommendations for a diy disk?


thanks


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Yeah, zoom no static images for at least 100-200 hrs, and even then test you tv with a movie with black bars say 30min or a static logo, and then see if you have any image retention, if so see how long it take to go away.


John.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Howdy everybody!,



I just wanted to throw this out: If you are breaking in your new plasma, and are zooming to get rid of the black bars on top and bottom of movies, keep in mind that many movies don't have black bars because they are presented in the 1.78:1 aspect ratio. A quick Google search can net you lists of these movies. (So you don't have to zoom these movies in).


Also, many movies are LISTED as being in the 1.85:1 aspect, but they may still be formatted in such a way that they may have no black bars. If they do have black bars, they are the very thin ones. There is a little trick you can do with your settings to get rid of only those thin black bars without losing very much of the rest of the picture. I believe in Samsung it's called "16:9" and Panasonic it's called "HD 1". (I think!) Both of these settings will only zoom in about 5% or so, just enough to get rid of those very thin black bars in the 1.85:1 movies.


With a little help from Google, you can find tons of movies in the 1.78:1 (also called 16:9), and also the 1.85:1 aspects. The only movies you want to limit for a while are the movies listed in the wider scope (2.35:1, 2.40:1, 2.x:1, etc).


So, there ya go! I hope that helps some people to enjoy their new plaz!


----------



## Mike_grahn

thanks for the quick replies and very informative information about movies and their aspect ratios.


Another question, I have Direct TV installed, non HDTV feed. I noticed that the picture quality is awful on most channels. Until I get HDTV installed, are there any settings that can improve the picture quality? I had better picture quality on my old Toshiba 34 inch tube TV.


----------



## kris achar

Here's a useful video link :-


Sd Feed






Hd Feed







.


----------



## maximuslcd

I have a 5yr old sharp aquos LCD and I am going to replace it with a 60 to 65 inch display and I am considering a plasma but have a few questions.

1. Is burn in really still an issue as I will be playing ps3 and xbox on it?

2. My kids will also be watching content such as sponge bob, prolly countless hours when I'm not home.

3. Do they still consume as much energy as they used to?


Or should I just stick with a good LCD and forget about plasma?....I really dont want to make this another case of spending 2 months and countless hours of research on finding the "perfect" Tv...it also seems as if plasma's for the most part are cheaper than a good LCd...


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Really, if you have kids and your not going to be around, you most likely to get some type of burn-in , because you are not likely to be able to do the 200-1000hr phosphor ageing that is needed to help prevent permanent burn-in, but burn-in can *most* of the time be reversed, but it can take hours or even months to remove.


An lcd would be recommended, but can you get a 60" at affordable prices?


Or just put up with a bit of burn-in that will most likely go away in a few hours, it`s very hard to say.


Just make sure that the orbit anti-burn is enabled, as long as the kids change the channel every hour or so, so that the channel logo is not in the same place for hours you should be alright, you will get some tem-burn-in but it should be reversible.


John.


----------



## JTdTigerfan

Quick question,


Anyone who has experience running the break in slides, Should the break in process strictly be done using the slides and nothing else, or can watching tv/playing video games during this phase of breaking in the plasma OK as long as it is done in moderation?


I plan on using the break in slides, but I just want to clarify if I can enjoy it during the break in process or just go ahead and get the break in (100 hrs.) out the way?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21505739
> 
> 
> , but burn-in can *most* of the time be reversed, but it can take hours or even months to remove.



No, true burn-in, can not be reversed. Bad IR yes, it can, but actual burn-in, no.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

One guy it took him 4 months to remove the image, is that burn-in or image retention.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/21510113
> 
> 
> No, true burn-in, can not be reversed. Bad IR yes, it can, but actual burn-in, no.


----------



## Johnla

That was a case of bad image retention. Actual burn-in, is damage of the phosphors in the panel and it is permanent, and it can not be reversed. Sure you can try, and also will probably fail miserably at doing so, to do some sort of wearing out of the non burned-in section of the set in some way, in order to try and match the burned-in area so it is not as visible, but that is not in any way a reversal of the burn-in. All that would be, is trying to force a burn-in of the rest of the set to try match the damaged burned-in area.


----------



## j0nnyfive

Howdy everybody!, (


----------



## Johnla

No, you are wrong. Uneven wear from overuse of black bars, is also actual non-reversible burn-in if it eventually don't go away. If it eventually goes away, then it was a case of image retention. All actual burn-in is indeed uneven wear, and yes constant viewing of stuff like 4:3 material with black bars on a widescreen set, can and will cause actual burn-in that can not be removed if you don't mix up your viewing habits.


----------



## j0nnyfive

"No, you are wrong."


----------



## j0nnyfive

Ohhhhh... I get your point now Johnla! I didn't understand why you typed that post until now. Sorry for that!


Okay, when I said black bars don't "burn-in" your screen, what I meant was that the image retention caused by black bars isn't a form of phosphor damage as would be the case with a static image from a video game that sat in the corner for too long.


In other words: People say "you can get burn-in from black bars". When they say "burn in", they mean "an effect that THEY may not be able to get rid of."


I think the term "burn in" is so ridiculously vague. When I use the term burn-in, I'm talking about phosphor damage or extreme phosphor wear, or possibly even MgO sputter/damage. Really, when I say burn-in, I mean damage. When other people say "burn in", they mean "an effect I can't get rid of." 2 different meanings. Confusing.


----------



## hungro

Burn in- is permanent , image retention is not , in most cases it is a form of heavy image retention that could take months to get rid off. We should focus more on fixing the "image retention" then so much on the definitions. I liked when jOhnnyfive mentioned a way of possibly getting rid of image retention of a logo.


jOhnnyfive, Also, to correct burned in logos, I'm thinking of a protocol to follow where you hook the TV up to a computer and somehow create a reverse image of the burn-in. You create a custom slide with this reverse image and let it run (should correct the problem).


----------



## raidersb21

I've been running the slides non-stop and finally approaching the 100 hr mark. My question is how much electricity does the tv use up, would I see a drastic increase in my pg&e bill? btw the tv is a panny 55gt30. Thanks in advance.


----------



## 40+SharpGuy

Gang,


Running the Evang. slides via DVD-R, do you have to set the DVD player on a loop I assume? My Sony BDP-S570 assumedly has that option...


Pardon any redundancy of the issue...


Thx!


KF


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Don`t quote me on this, but i think you use the a-b loop key on the remote.


John.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *40+SharpGuy* /forum/post/21512844
> 
> 
> Gang,
> 
> 
> Running the Evang. slides via DVD-R, do you have to set the DVD player on a loop I assume? My Sony BDP-S570 assumedly has that option...
> 
> 
> Pardon any redundancy of the issue...
> 
> 
> Thx!
> 
> 
> KF


----------



## j0nnyfive

Hey Hungro!



Yeah, I don't see why one couldn't connect their plasma to a PC (temporarily), and use a paint program to somehow outline the retained image creating a customized slide which they could (carefully) run and see how it affects the screen. Hopefully this would lead to improvement. Once enough improvement has been reached, one could then use regular break-in slides to smooth it all out. I am a fan of _not_ using the "full" break-in slides to fix _everything_ as this (I assume) just ages your TV, perhaps more than necessary.



And I agree that talking about definitions gets old. But, I'm starting to cringe every time I see the term "burn-in" now. It's a useless term that conjures up a feeling of permanence and hopelessness. lol Woe is me!


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raidersb21* /forum/post/21511592
> 
> 
> I've been running the slides non-stop and finally approaching the 100 hr mark. My question is how much electricity does the tv use up, would I see a drastic increase in my pg&e bill? btw the tv is a panny 55gt30. Thanks in advance.



A few dollars more for the year, it is not as much as you think.


----------



## SantosLH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maximuslcd* /forum/post/21505667
> 
> 
> I have a 5yr old sharp aquos LCD and I am going to replace it with a 60 to 65 inch display and I am considering a plasma but have a few questions.
> 
> 1. Is burn in really still an issue as I will be playing ps3 and xbox on it?
> 
> 2. My kids will also be watching content such as sponge bob, prolly countless hours when I'm not home.
> 
> 3. Do they still consume as much energy as they used to?
> 
> 
> Or should I just stick with a good LCD and forget about plasma?....I really dont want to make this another case of spending 2 months and countless hours of research on finding the "perfect" Tv...it also seems as if plasma's for the most part are cheaper than a good LCd...



I would get an LCD. Not because I have burn in on my plasma (s*** happens), but because of the break in requirements. I did not realize how distasteful I would find dealing with 100hrs of not being able to use the tv as a tv. I have a much better appreciation of being able to open the box, calibrate the tv, and go.

FWIW, on my Samsung I have not had any burn in issues with my xbox, which I couldn't resist playing within the 100hrs, and I played Battlefield 3 for over an hour a few times. If you're not familiar, the game has intercut scenes so the static images aren't there the whole hour, but I'd say it would take me about half an hour on a few levels. If I had gotten IR or burn in through that I would be much more disappointed, instead of having it from hours of static image.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SantosLH* /forum/post/21516442
> 
> 
> I have a much better appreciation of being able to open the box, calibrate the tv, and go..



You can do the same with a Plasma, you do not have to run slides, etc. you can open it and watch TV, all you have to do is be careful of static images for hours and hours. Shame.


----------



## hungro

Be careful of logos when calibrating, oh i guess that would count as a static image as well , since some calibration sessions are quite long. I developed heavy image retention of the video input label "HDMI1/DVI" the one that shows you what source your in after pressing the MENU button. It stays on the display until you press the Menu button or exit button. I had it on for the whole time I was calibrating and entering , trying out different calibrated settings from other TV's. I know , should off had the orbiter on. It now appears as a slightly darker image easily visible on a full white screen or bright screen on the top right hand side.


----------



## Starsunder

Hey all, first time poster and plasma owner. I just bought a Panny TC-P60S30; should be here Tuesday. I've tried to read through the thread and keep seeing a variety of responses concerning burn-in/IR. So bottom line, how worried should I be of burn-in? I heard the newer plasmas don't really have it? Or that it's hard to do? I'm primarily going to be using it for gaming and Blu-rays, with some tv. I really would love to just be able to use it normally, but will take what precautions I need to to protect my tv picture.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Fatty7780

Hi i've woken up today and realised my panasonic TX-P42ST30B gas some HUD burn in form gaming!! I ran some break in slide colours for the first 100 hours plus some short gaming sessions and had no problems. since finishing the 100 hrs i've been playing the new call of duty but keeping sessions to about 2 hours plus dvd's and other games. But i got carried away and has a 6 hour session and now i have some burn in around the edges of the screen! I'm now panicking as to if i can actually fix this problem! only just found your thread so i'll subscribe and have a look thru but i would be really grateful if anyone can help in the mean time....please?!


Regards,


Kris


----------



## crankbait

Kris -


Sorry for your issue and I can relate. I first noticed image retention on my set after playing a game over the course of 4 or 5 days. My set was broken in for well over 200 hours and I have kept it in THX, it is a panny. I noticed the IR on 1/8 and since then have been trying to get rid of it.


Here is what I suggest:


1. Do not play that same game at all, hopefully the image will go away and you can play in the future

2. I immediately tuned to a full screen non-logo station like HBO and also ran zoomed pixar movies at a high contrast setting for numerous hours.


This did initially fade the IR but it is still hanging on.


I have now been running a slide show of solid images at break in settings, high contrast, non-stop and am on hour 50. I can still see it but it looks to be fading, could just be wishful thinking.


I have heard on this board that screen wipes, pixel orbiters, etc are not too helpful. Personally I never had this problem with my old RPTV or my Samsung plasma in another room.


Wish my old RPTV did not die. Good luck and let us know if you have any success. luckily in my case it seems to be relatively minor as you have to look for it. But I know it is there and I hope I can get rid of it.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

I have played few hours of gaming on my LG, but only after my 200hr break-in, I try to keep my gaming to 30mins or to the end of level, then i watch a few hours tv to remove any image retention, though i have seen very little, a bright image normally wipes it right out.


If you have bad image retention from a games status display ect, just play another game for a day or two they are normal in a slightly different place, and limit it to an hour, and then watch a bit tv for a few hours, and make sure the orbiter it turned on.


John.


----------



## Fatty7780

Thanks guys i appreciate the info. I'll try the listed solutions, although i've posted on another thread and someone replied and seems to think its screen burn in :-/

Has anyone used software and successfully removed burn in?? I found one on google which you run on mac/pc and plug into the telly, and the program runs and scans the screen finds the effected areas and builds a REVERSE image to age the rest of the panel accordingly! Sounds perfect but i don't want to risk it if it just makes it worse...... Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.


Many thanks


----------



## Archer444

Kris- when do you notice the IR?? During normal viewing?? (doubtful) I'm a hardcore gamer and game out on my Panny GT30 about 6 hours/day, straight! And I have yet to notice IR or burn in during normal viewing (or a 'white' screen for that matter). I guess you're SOL with your new tv if the image is that noticeable.


----------



## Fatty7780




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Archer444* /forum/post/21524781
> 
> 
> Kris- when do you notice the IR?? During normal viewing?? (doubtful) I'm a hardcore gamer and game out on my Panny GT30 about 6 hours/day, straight! And I have yet to notice IR or burn in during normal viewing (or a 'white' screen for that matter). I guess you're SOL with your new tv if the image is that noticeable.



I only noticed it when I quit modern warfare 3, returned to the ps3 menu (xmb) then put a song on and set the screen to visualiser. I just happened to glance down to look for my ashtray, which was on the table, bottom right corner of the screen and It caught my eye! Haven't used it sinse except to run slides. But I can't see the ghosts when the ps3 home menu is on. I'll try some DVDs and see how it looks. It only really shows up on a green screen, some shades of blue, and strong blues or reds elimate it completely. Ive been on other thread and some say its nothing, another says it permanent :-/ running slides of shades of prime colours, I noticed the ghosts are darker, and some one on another thread insist its burn in!! All I know is after 100 hours of discipline then thinking this wouldn't happen, I'm really not happy with this out come ...... But thank u for your info and help







)


Thanks again










ps, whats "SOL"??? :-/


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fatty7780* /forum/post/21524918
> 
> 
> I only noticed it when I quit modern warfare 3, returned to the ps3 menu (xmb) then put a song on and set the screen to visualiser. I just happened to glance down to look for my ashtray, which was on the table, bottom right corner of the screen and It caught my eye! Haven't used it sinse except to run slides. But I can't see the ghosts when the ps3 home menu is on. I'll try some DVDs and see how it looks. It only really shows up on a green screen, some shades of blue, and strong blues or reds elimate it completely. Ive been on other thread and some say its nothing, another says it permanent :-/ running slides of shades of prime colours, I noticed the ghosts are darker, and some one on another thread insist its burn in!! All I know is after 100 hours of discipline then thinking this wouldn't happen, I'm really not happy with this out come ...... But thank u for your info and help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps, whats "SOL"??? :-/



SOL = **** out of luck.


I'm nearing 1,000 hours on my television, and I'm seeing less and less IR on it (then again, I'm probably just not really concerned about it anymore), but after 100 hours your TV is still relatively new. In the end, it's much better than zero hours. Some people will even tell you that aging to reduce IR is a myth. Others will say that while it's not a myth, it's best to simply enjoy your television (i.e. just stick to 16:9 content for those first 100 hours as opposed to running slides).


I'm still careful with my TV, but I realized that I shouldn't have to baby it every second and enjoy it less (meaning not do something for fear of IR).


----------



## Fatty7780

Thanks muffinmcluffin, wise words! I won't lie by nature I'm maybe a lil too attentive to detail sometimes. Think I'll just rig up an aerial, avoid call of duty for a while and try to enjoy my tv rather than think the worst!


----------



## hungro

Fatty7780 what is the program that you found on Google?, I wouldn't mind using the software to help aid my problem with image retention hoping it's freeware. Thanks.


----------



## SantosLH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21517213
> 
> 
> You can do the same with a Plasma, you do not have to run slides, etc. you can open it and watch TV, all you have to do is be careful of static images for hours and hours. Shame.



Seems at the very least consensus is to lower brightness and contrast for the first 100hrs. I didn't mind a break in process, it just turned out I have way less patience than I thought. Or that 100hrs is longer than I thought.







Side note: It's amazing how every station has it's stupid logo on the screen. At what point did they decide that somehow, despite having deliberately tuned into a channel, we were incapable of not only knowing what channel we were on, but also incapable of pressing a button that would easily display the channel?



I did find essentially a screen saver channel on the rabbit ears (various waterfall footage that cycles through), but I'm too snakebit to consder letting it run all night just in case it goes off the air and puts the rainbow bars up. So far, some days it seems like it's fading, then others I can see it clearly.


----------



## Fatty7780




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hungro* /forum/post/21528385
> 
> 
> Fatty7780 what is the program that you found on Google?, I wouldn't mind using the software to help aid my problem with image retention hoping it's freeware. Thanks.



Hi Hungro.


The software is called JscreenFix. It's £15 payable with paypal. Cheap imo and i'll definitely be given it a try.


Heres a link - http://www.jads.co.uk/screen-repair/jscreenfix-deluxe 


It seems like an ideal solution, you have to use it a few times to see big results but if it can fix burn in i'd say give it a go.


Let us know if you try it and it works, thanks


----------



## koven

if i wanted to have my 60PV450 professionally calibrated, how would i go about doing that? can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

If you are handy, you can do it yourself.


John.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *koven* /forum/post/21529992
> 
> 
> if i wanted to have my 60PV450 professionally calibrated, how would i go about doing that? can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## hungro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fatty7780* /forum/post/21529282
> 
> 
> Hi Hungro.
> 
> 
> The software is called JscreenFix. It's £15 payable with paypal. Cheap imo and i'll definitely be given it a try.
> 
> 
> Heres a link - http://www.jads.co.uk/screen-repair/jscreenfix-deluxe
> 
> 
> It seems like an ideal solution, you have to use it a few times to see big results but if it can fix burn in i'd say give it a go.
> 
> 
> Let us know if you try it and it works, thanks



I have heard of this software before. Anybody here have any experience using the program ? if so can you say how effective it was.


----------



## undecided




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raidersb21* /forum/post/21511592
> 
> 
> I've been running the slides non-stop and finally approaching the 100 hr mark. My question is how much electricity does the tv use up, would I see a drastic increase in my pg&e bill? btw the tv is a panny 55gt30. Thanks in advance.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21515593
> 
> 
> A few dollars more for the year, it is not as much as you think.



hmmm - he said PG&E - so maybe more than you think....


As I posted here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21440512 my 55VT30 was consuming well over 400 watts running the slides - at PG&E higher tier rates (>30c a kwh) it may be up to $12 when running the slides for 100 hours. So nothing crazy - but don't leave the slides/TV running for ever.


Normal TV viewing is lower - 200 - 300 Watts.


Edit - I should add my variable speed pool pump is consuming pretty much the same (500w) as the plamsa running slides when pumping water through the pool filter and up one story to 7 solar panels! So these plasma do consume quite a bit of power...


That said my pool pump will run for 8 hours or so in the summer - much less then our TV viewing.


----------



## balla01

Wow, I am glad I did not read this thread before I decided to purchase my plasma. I am surprised nothing was said more about the youtube video that was posted a couple pages ago. Here is my hunch, I am going to turn down the brightness and contrast down to 50 for the first 100 hours, and then I am going to go all out. I am not going to baby my television. If I get a burn-in, I will return it.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balla01* /forum/post/21549034
> 
> 
> Wow, I am glad I did not read this thread before I decided to purchase my plasma. I am surprised nothing was said more about the youtube video that was posted a couple pages ago. Here is my hunch, I am going to turn down the brightness and contrast down to 50 for the first 100 hours, and then I am going to go all out. I am not going to baby my television. If I get a burn-in, I will return it.



Go for it! I have two Panasonic plasmas, I bought one in 2006 and one in 2009. I didn't take any special precautions with them and have never had a problem. Sure they get IR but I don't freak out because I only see it if I look for it on a blank screen, it has never been noticeable in normal viewing and it fades away.


----------



## undecided




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *undecided* /forum/post/21544944
> 
> 
> hmmm - he said PG&E - so maybe more than you think....
> 
> 
> As I posted here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21440512 my 55VT30 was consuming well over 400 watts running the slides - at PG&E higher tier rates (>30c a kwh) it may be up to $12 when running the slides for 100 hours. So nothing crazy - but don't leave the slides/TV running for ever.
> 
> 
> Normal TV viewing is lower - 200 - 300 Watts.
> 
> 
> Edit - I should add my variable speed pool pump is consuming pretty much the same (500w) as the plamsa running slides when pumping water through the pool filter and up one story to 7 solar panels! So these plasma do consume quite a bit of power...
> 
> 
> That said my pool pump will run for 8 hours or so in the summer - much less then our TV viewing.



Tonight I checked my 55VT30 watching the Australian Open - about 350 Watts


----------



## balla01

Interesting point in regards to this entire issue. I bought my TV from Best Buy, I decided to get the 4 year service plan from them, which does cover burn in. I know, I know, I'm a sucker. This way though I don't have to worry about burn in.


So enjoy your TV and if burn in does happen they replace it. The best part about BB service plan is when they don't carry that TV anymore they have to give you a newer set. So I can only hope my set burns in some images. New plasma set FTW!


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balla01* /forum/post/21550627
> 
> 
> Interesting point in regards to this entire issue. I bought my TV from Best Buy, I decided to get the 4 year service plan from them, which does cover burn in. I know, I know, I'm a sucker. This way though I don't have to worry about burn in.
> 
> 
> So enjoy your TV and if burn in does happen they replace it. The best part about BB service plan is when they don't carry that TV anymore they have to give you a newer set. So I can only hope my set burns in some images. New plasma set FTW!



Good luck with that! I had a buddy who bought the same plan and got a pretty bad IR on his 3 month old plasma tv (Samsung). He tried to get Geek Squad to check it out/fix it/replace it to no avail as they told him it was a 'manufacture warranty issue'- which we all know means you are out of luck as no manufacture will warranty IR or burn in. The reason for denying the claim is because it did not fall under their classification as normal wear and tear (whatever that means) as the tv was too new. However, I don't know how BB/Geek Squad will handle his repair later on (like a year maybe?), but he is stuck with his TV having IR/BI until then.


----------



## balla01

Well when I bought my TV the Bedt Buy associate said it covered burn ins on the set. Also, my buddy has a Pioneer Elite Plasma from Best Buy and had it replaced due to burn in.


A weird question, if burn ins are still relevant with plasmas then why does anyone buy one? Just reading this thread makes me paranoid, I don't even want to turn on my set.


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balla01* /forum/post/21551506
> 
> 
> Well when I bought my TV the Bedt Buy associate said it covered burn ins on the set. Also, my buddy has a Pioneer Elite Plasma from Best Buy and had it replaced due to burn in.
> 
> 
> A weird question, if burn ins are still relevant with plasmas then why does anyone buy one? Just reading this thread makes me paranoid, I don't even want to turn on my set.



I was told the same thing when I purchased my tv from BB- and their hard sale on the GS plan would lead many consumers to feel the same way you do- 'buy the plan so you won't have to worry about your TV and get it repaired, replaced, or even a new one years later'. IMO- there's way too much 'open to interpretation' loop holes in their warranty (like what happened to my friend, or someone's biased opinion as to whether your issue is in fact burn in or image retention) to justify GS's denial of warranty. Also, I'd rather use the extra $300-400+ for something else. But if it makes you feel 'safe' about your purchase, then the $$$ for the warranty are worth it and, hopefully they will honor it should the time come.


----------



## balla01

Ya, unfortunately I am almost to the point where I might even rerun my PN51d550 just because this burn in thing is freaking me out lol.


----------



## balla01

Return*


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balla01* /forum/post/21551934
> 
> 
> Ya, unfortunately I am almost to the point where I might even rerun my PN51d550 just because this burn in thing is freaking me out lol.



I wouldn't return it if I were you. The BI/IR issue freaked me out as well before I bought my plasma; however, if you really evaluate the issues you've read about with IR/BI you'll see that a majority of the people only notice IR on their tvs while viewing white or green screens (or a 'colored slide picture'), at totally unrealistic viewing distances (like staring at the spot from 6" away from the screen), or any other anal-retentive way they can find to prove IR is a 'problem'. I ABUSE my tv (Panny GT30) and have yet to see any hint of BI. However, there are several other Panny GT30 owners who do post about having IR issues with their TVs- yet many of these posts fall under the situations I've described above.










You have a warranty plan and a nice TV- enjoy it!


----------



## balla01

Thanks for your input Archer. I hate the whole babying of the tv, I didn't realize how much of a pain it would be. I am looking at the KDL46EX723 or the UN46D6420U. This thread has made me beyond paranoid lol.


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balla01* /forum/post/21552670
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input Archer. I hate the whole babying of the tv, I didn't realize how much of a pain it would be. I am looking at the KDL46EX723 or the UN46D6420U. This thread has made me beyond paranoid lol.



You bet! And both of those are nice TVs also. Just FYI, I exchanged my LED tv (LG 47LW5600) for my plasma because of the 'flash lights' on the corners, and the horrible gaming input lag. And you can find a bunch of other issues with LED tvs in general as well, so in the end stick with the TV that makes you the happiest (which is your current TV hopefully), and cross that bridge of dealing with an issue when you get there- you might be surprised that you may never have to cross that bridge.


----------



## balla01

Hopefully so, I was just hoping that burn ins weren't really an issue anymore. After reading this thread they are obviously still around, the companies even make burn in protections on their models. It's kind of scary, no wonder a lot of manufacturers have left the plasma world.


----------



## drwavs

I posted about my issue in the Samsung D8000 thread- did not realize this thread was here!


I have a new 59D8000- have had it for about 48 days, which I am guessing is something like 300 hours of use, give or take.


I have developed a faint outline of the ESPN bottom line ticker- a horizontal line matching where the bottom line ticker, and you can also see the ESPN logo- it is faint and can only be seen when the screen is white or bright, but it is there.


Is there any way to know for sure if this is IR or burn in?? I ran the Samsung built in screen burn protection black and white scroll for about 16 hours today, and also ran a snow screen for about an hour. After all of that, it is still there.


Trying not to panic- is there still a chance this will go away?? Should I continue to run the scroll and snow screens??


----------



## gdX

Hey.


I will be helping my friend install and break in a Panny 50S30, replacing dead 25" CRT.


This will be my first time doing this from scratch.


Their needs:

- Tight budget. Longevity is a goal.

- NO broadcast or cable TV, ever.

- 90% movies (DVD, Netflix stream), 10% gaming.

- No Bluray for at least a year. Maybe never if streaming flourishes.


They will be warned about IR, esp for gaming.


They aren't videophiles at all, but I want them to get the most out of their purchase.


I read back a few pages, and didn't seem to find anything new, info-wise.


Is this rough procedure OK at this level:

- 100-200 hours break-in: low brightness, low contrast, full-screen.

- Slideshow seems optional - DVD movies OK for this purpose?

- Run calibration afterwards. Will use Video Essentials DVD.

- I will check in on them occasionally over a few months.


Lastly, please tell me I don't need a PC for anything. They've got one but it's immovable, 100 ft away from TV.


Thanx in advance!


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drwavs* /forum/post/21554974
> 
> 
> I posted about my issue in the Samsung D8000 thread- did not realize this thread was here!
> 
> 
> I have a new 59D8000- have had it for about 48 days, which I am guessing is something like 300 hours of use, give or take.
> 
> 
> I have developed a faint outline of the ESPN bottom line ticker- a horizontal line matching where the bottom line ticker, and you can also see the ESPN logo- *it is faint and can only be seen when the screen is white or bright, but it is there*.
> 
> 
> Is there any way to know for sure if this is IR or burn in?? I ran the Samsung built in screen burn protection black and white scroll for about 16 hours today, and also ran a snow screen for about an hour. After all of that, it is still there.
> 
> 
> Trying not to panic- is there still a chance this will go away?? Should I continue to run the scroll and snow screens??



I have to ask- how often/long do you sit and stare at a white screen???










Yep it's burn-in, you have a screwed up tv, and I would take a sledgehammer to the screen immediately!! Or... I'd be happy to take it off your hands and I won't even charge you for it!










Seriously, do you notice the IR during 'normal' viewing?


As I've said before...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Archer444* /forum/post/21552645
> 
> 
> I wouldn't return it if I were you. The BI/IR issue freaked me out as well before I bought my plasma; however, if you really evaluate the issues you've read about with IR/BI you'll see that a *majority of the people only notice IR on their tvs while viewing white or green screens (or a 'colored slide picture'), at totally unrealistic viewing distances (like staring at the spot from 6" away from the screen), or any other anal-retentive way they can find to prove IR is a 'problem'.* I ABUSE my tv (Panny GT30) and have yet to see any hint of BI. However, there are several other Panny GT30 owners who do post about having IR issues with their TVs- yet many of these posts fall under the situations I've described above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a warranty plan and a nice TV- enjoy it!


----------



## drwavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Archer444* /forum/post/21556322
> 
> 
> I have to ask- how often/long do you sit and stare at a white screen???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep it's burn-in, you have a screwed up tv, and I would take a sledgehammer to the screen immediately!! Or... I'd be happy to take it off your hands and I won't even charge you for it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, do you notice the IR during 'normal' viewing?
> 
> 
> As I've said before...



Thanks- I ran the static screens overnight, so did not stare at them!!


No, the IR I have is not major, although it can be seen, as you said, with a white/bright background. Not panicking about it, but was just wondering what the chances are that this IR, minor as it is, will fade away.


And I am probably a little paranoid because this is a replacement set for a 58C8000 that had to be replaced due to the purple/pink banding issue that plagued many.....


Thanks again for the reply


----------



## mhyug

hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drwavs* /forum/post/21556367
> 
> 
> Thanks- I ran the static screens overnight, so did not stare at them!!
> 
> 
> No, the IR I have is not major, although it can be seen, as you said, with a white/bright background. Not panicking about it, but was just wondering what the chances are that this IR, minor as it is, will fade away.
> 
> 
> And I am probably a little paranoid because this is a replacement set for a 58C8000 that had to be replaced due to the purple/pink banding issue that plagued many.....
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the reply



I have no doubt it will fade with time, but I know what you mean about being paranoid. It's like that small chip in your windshield- you know it's there, it will always be there, but it's only noticeable when you look for it.


----------



## hungro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drwavs* /forum/post/21554974
> 
> 
> I posted about my issue in the Samsung D8000 thread- did not realize this thread was here!
> 
> 
> I have a new 59D8000- have had it for about 48 days, which I am guessing is something like 300 hours of use, give or take.
> 
> 
> I have developed a faint outline of the ESPN bottom line ticker- a horizontal line matching where the bottom line ticker, and you can also see the ESPN logo- it is faint and can only be seen when the screen is white or bright, but it is there.
> 
> 
> Is there any way to know for sure if this is IR or burn in?? I ran the Samsung built in screen burn protection black and white scroll for about 16 hours today, and also ran a snow screen for about an hour. After all of that, it is still there.
> 
> 
> Trying not to panic- is there still a chance this will go away?? Should I continue to run the scroll and snow screens??



It is not guaranteed that it's burn in. There are stages that the tv goes through before it get's too the point that it's considered burned in. Probably a case of heavy image retention. I have a problem where my video input logo the one that pops up and stays on the top right hand side of the screen showing you what input you are currently in is now a slight darker ghosted image. I can clearly read and make out "HDMI1/DVI" it is faint but noticeable on a full white screen i think it's also visible on a black screen. It's been on there now for some time i am not going to continue to stress over it it might just go away. Some image retention can take months to go away each tv and case is different, there is not way of knowing for sure.


----------



## baxtercavendish

Posting here just to get some more input unless I hear from D-Nice on his thread:


I've been doing the break-in slides per Evangelo's break-in page, at low contrast, low brightness for 100 hours.


After reading D-Nice's settings thread, am I reading correctly now, that to use D-nice's settings, I should now do an additional 100 hours of the prep slides using his custom settings, THEN apply the picture settings?


I ask because of this warning in his thread:

"*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention.*****"


So in essence, do I do: 100 hour break-in, 100 hour D-nice prep using his prep setting, then calibrate picture to D-nice's picture settings.


I've already put in 100 hours, I'd hate to have to do another 100 because I misread his warning note.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhyug* /forum/post/21556390
> 
> 
> hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?



Yes, but I don't think it's necessary. I've been doing the ps3 updates through my Panasonic plasmas for years and have never had a problem from leaving the TV on. I get IR but I can't see with normal viewing so what's the big deal? Honestly, all this burn-in crap is just a bunch of hype. Every plasma gets IR, if someone says their's doesn't they just don't know how to look for it. The point is that it fades away with normal viewing and is very rarely noticeable in normal viewing unless the screen is extremely abused (like those at airports with flight information displayed 24/7).


----------



## mhyug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/21557845
> 
> 
> Yes, but I don't think it's necessary. I've been doing the ps3 updates through my Panasonic plasmas for years and have never had a problem from leaving the TV on. I get IR but I can't see with normal viewing so what's the big deal? Honestly, all this burn-in crap is just a bunch of hype. Every plasma gets IR, if someone says their's doesn't they just don't know how to look for it. The point is that it fades away with normal viewing and is very rarely noticeable in normal viewing unless the screen is extremely abused (like those at airports with flight information displayed 24/7).



yeah your right, just a few weeks ago i over played a game and did notice some ir's but you really need to in front of the tv to notice it, i just played a different game with colors all around, moving stuff for a few weeks the previous ir is gone.but still im just keeping it under the cosh since its quite new.










its not that visible or simply said not visible at all if its just some light ir's.


----------



## jj4osu

OK, I guess I'm a moron. Before I bought my plasma (PN51D7000) a couple months ago, I researched and came to the conslusion that there was no need to worry about IR or burn in on Plasmas these days..."just do whats normal" is what I understood, and you won't have an issue.


Well, fast forward...bought the TV. Read through the thread for this model on calibration settings (yes, I know I didn't "callibrate" the TV, just played with the suggested settings to find what "felt" best). Anyway, TV looked great...fantastic on blue-ray through PS3...BUT, like a dumb ass, I didn't think to dial down the cell light & contrast when I switched the PS3 from a movie to a game.


Lately I've been hooked on Madden in franchise mode...not really playing the games so much, but doing the offseason stuff, evaluating rosters, trading, drafting, etc. Well their freaking background on these scenes has some extremely bright areas (like stripes almost) next to some extremely dark areas around the screen...especially in the lower left portion of the screen, but also some on the right hand side. Well, guess I hung out on these screens too long...has resulted in what I'd call burn in in these areas since it doesn't seem to be going away.


After first noticing the issue, any time I use the PS3 for anything other than blue ray, I'm dialing back the contrast & cell light settings to avoid any further issues.


I've been using the "scroll" function on the tv for IR protection, using a thing called Pixel Repair which alternates black & white full screens, and have tried a dvd that has small color blocks filling the screen constantly moving/changing. Anyway, image is still there after many hours of each. I can certainly see it when there is a white screen of course, but I can also see it watching regular tv anytime there is a solid color near the left or right edge, as long as the color isn't too dark.


Really noticible watching the x-games on the snow yesterday. At this point, its just a bit annoying when I see it, but can't freaking keep from looking for it!!


SO, nearing the end of the time when I can return the TV...thinking do I want to return it and get something different or just keep it and live with it. If I thought it was something that would get a little better over time, I'd just live with it. OR if I could somehow "fix" it. I did read somewhere that any IR fix problem needed at least 2x the hours that caused the problem in the first place...so If I was 20hrs on the screens with that background, I'd need 40hrs of the "repair". If that is true, maybe I just need more times with these processes.


Anyway, looking for sage advice (and like I said, yes I know I was an idiot and didn't use much common sense in my usage patterns in the early life of the TV)...Should I just return it and either get a new one or an LCD?? or keep at the repair processes and think it will gradually improve?? OR is there some better way of fixing??


any advice other than a brain transplant will be appreciated.










Thanks,

jj


----------



## Fuzzybear50




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jj4osu* /forum/post/21570832
> 
> 
> any advice other than a brain transplant will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> jj



I have had the 64D8K for a couple months and when I finish playing MW3 or Madden, I usually run a snow screen for 10 -15 minutes and there is not a hint of IR anywhere. I know other believe in the slides etc....I have never tried them. The snow screen has always worked on my Kuro 6020 upstairs.


----------



## jj4osu

Thanks Fuzzy.


Now is there somplace I can download something where I can burn a dvd with a snow pattern?? I've searched and everything just says get one, like its easy to find...I've not found one. If I just go to my antenna and pick a channel with no signal, I get snow, but I also get a box in the middle of the tv telling me "weak or no signal" that I cannot get rid of.


jj


----------



## Dave_O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jj4osu* /forum/post/21573648
> 
> 
> Thanks Fuzzy.
> 
> 
> Now is there somplace I can download something where I can burn a dvd with a snow pattern?? I've searched and everything just says get one, like its easy to find...I've not found one. If I just go to my antenna and pick a channel with no signal, I get snow, but I also get a box in the middle of the tv telling me "weak or no signal" that I cannot get rid of.
> 
> 
> jj



While it's not free, the Disney WOW BR disk has a Pixel Flipper Java program that will run forever. Sort of a snow pattern, but designed specifically for IR.


----------



## drwavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jj4osu* /forum/post/21573648
> 
> 
> Thanks Fuzzy.
> 
> 
> Now is there somplace I can download something where I can burn a dvd with a snow pattern?? I've searched and everything just says get one, like its easy to find...I've not found one. If I just go to my antenna and pick a channel with no signal, I get snow, but I also get a box in the middle of the tv telling me "weak or no signal" that I cannot get rid of.
> 
> 
> jj



I have that, too, but if you have pixel shift activated, the box should move around on the screen like a screen saver..


Do you have the black and white scrolling screen burn protection on your set? I have that and have been running that and the snow screen to try and get rid of my IR (detailed in an above post)


----------



## Fuzzybear50




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jj4osu* /forum/post/21573648
> 
> 
> Thanks Fuzzy.
> 
> 
> Now is there somplace I can download something where I can burn a dvd with a snow pattern?? I've searched and everything just says get one, like its easy to find...I've not found one. If I just go to my antenna and pick a channel with no signal, I get snow, but I also get a box in the middle of the tv telling me "weak or no signal" that I cannot get rid of.
> 
> 
> jj



I just tune the TV to channel 3/4.......and let it set for a bit.


----------



## crankbait

Try this, it is free and works well:

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/


----------



## jj4osu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crankbait* /forum/post/21575498
> 
> 
> Try this, it is free and works well:
> 
> http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/



Thanks guys.


This is what I'm using currently along with the Black/white scroll built into the TV.


Tried to figure out some way to do "snow", but cannot find a download & when I leave the tv set to something with no signal, first, it has the box that says "no signal" that moves up and down a little, but portions are always lit with a border...and then, the tv automatically shuts off in just a few minutes if left on a channel with no signal.


I did decide to buy the Disney WOW blue ray...even if it doesn't help this, it seems like a useful tool to have.


Thanks guys.


jj


----------



## SantosLH

With the burn-in/IR that I have, I ran the snow and scroll for hrs and hrs with little to no effect. Eventually I decided to just live with it, and played Fable 3 for hours since it doesn't have any static images. Then I found essentially a screensaver channel that switches video of waterfalls and other nature scenes. I cranked up the cell light, brightness, and contrast and ran the screensaver channel while at work. It has mitigated the burn in to the point where I have to look for it on a white screen rather than have it smack me in the face. Between the hours of channel and game play with the cranked brightness, etc. it is definitely at levels I can live with without being disappointed every time there's white on the screen.

This is on a Samsung.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SantosLH* /forum/post/21586426
> 
> 
> With the burn-in/IR that I have, I ran the snow and scroll for hrs and hrs with little to no effect. Eventually I decided to just live with it, and played Fable 3 for hours since it doesn't have any static images. Then I found essentially a screensaver channel that switches video of waterfalls and other nature scenes. I cranked up the cell light, brightness, and contrast and ran the screensaver channel while at work. It has mitigated the burn in to the point where I have to look for it on a white screen rather than have it smack me in the face. Between the hours of channel and game play with the cranked brightness, etc. it is definitely at levels I can live with without being disappointed every time there's white on the screen.
> 
> This is on a Samsung.



If it is going away then it is not burn in. Burn in is permenant. Sounds like you had bad IR. Keep doing what you did to reduce it and it should eventually go away.


----------



## Ace1965

I fell asleep last night with " the Pacific" menu up on my vt25

TV cut itself off after about 2ish hours!

Noticed IR this morning and played full content and it was gone in less than 2 minutes.

Just thought I would share!


----------



## Cal1981

My Panasonic 50ST30 continues to have horrific IR. It's very obvious when you switch inputs. The screen isn't close to resembling black. When I switch from a few hours of cable to another HDMI input for my blu-ray player, even my wife commented on how bad the screen looked. There were ghost imprints and uneven light areas all over the place. A lot of it does dissapate to some extent but it can take awhile. The screen just looks dirty and dingy. I've tried the set's own light bar and various patterns/pixel movers (disney WOW, blank channel snow, the beginwithsoftware CD, etc.) While they may have immediate effect, there seems to be nothing that can lessen the set's vulnerability to IR. The panel has been a great disappointment in this area, especially since I've dialed in some good all around video settings and like the set's ability to produce a good image.


----------



## hungro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cal1981* /forum/post/21587647
> 
> 
> My Panasonic 50ST30 continues to have horrific IR. It's very obvious when you switch inputs. The screen isn't close to resembling black. When I switch from a few hours of cable to another HDMI input for my blu-ray player, even my wife commented on how bad the screen looked. There were ghost imprints and uneven light areas all over the place. A lot of it does dissapate to some extent but it can take awhile. The screen just looks dirty and dingy. I've tried the set's own light bar and various patterns/pixel movers (disney WOW, blank channel snow, the beginwithsoftware CD, etc.) While they may have immediate effect, there seems to be nothing that can lessen the set's vulnerability to IR. The panel has been a great disappointment in this area, especially since I've dialed in some good all around video settings and like the set's ability to produce a good image.



I know doesn't it just upset you , some sets being more vulnerable then other ones.


----------



## DR.DTS

Didn't know if to ask over in the Panasonic Settings thread but it's a simple question involving doing the "slides"....


I did not use them from the outset or follow the D_Nice instructions. Instead I've used about half normal programming (THX) and half running the XBox Media Player visualizations at Full Cinema. I'm also using Dave_O's setting in Custom for BR. I've got about 50-54 hrs in so far on the GT30.


Instead of doing the XBox Media Player a couple of hours each night like I have been, would running the slides instead help, do any good or no good considering the 50 hours the TV has at this point? Thank you.


----------



## Thanatos9

I was close to picking up a 55ST30 in the next few days but came across this thread and went from full confidence in the ST30 plasmas (with possible green/pink blob problem) to now really cautious about the decision. All reviews I've read said that plasmas are great for gaming due to its low lag but then I read here that people get a range of IR problems with the set while playing. Some people only play for 30min then run slides to prevent IR. I'm not too worried about the first 30 days since its returnable but 2-3 years down the road. How come more reviews don't mention what seems to be an important factor when picking out a tv? A little IR wouldn't bother me but I can't imagine jumping through so many hoops and then still get annoying IR down the road.


Any thoughts? Is this just something you have to accept for plasmas? Or am i just overthinking it? I'm upgrading from a Sony 42a10 which has been a great tv for me (had blue blob problem fixed under warranty after 3-4 yrs)


----------



## datman

I read a post in this thread stating that in 08 panasonic would suggest only watching 2.35 letterbox movies 15% of the time for the 1st 1000 hours. Is that still valid today?


----------



## Cal1981




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thanatos9* /forum/post/21617953
> 
> 
> I was close to picking up a 55ST30 in the next few days but came across this thread and went from full confidence in the ST30 plasmas (with possible green/pink blob problem) to now really cautious about the decision. All reviews I've read said that plasmas are great for gaming due to its low lag but then I read here that people get a range of IR problems with the set while playing. Some people only play for 30min then run slides to prevent IR. I'm not too worried about the first 30 days since its returnable but 2-3 years down the road. How come more reviews don't mention what seems to be an important factor when picking out a tv? A little IR wouldn't bother me but I can't imagine jumping through so many hoops and then still get annoying IR down the road.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts? Is this just something you have to accept for plasmas? Or am i just overthinking it? I'm upgrading from a Sony 42a10 which has been a great tv for me (had blue blob problem fixed under warranty after 3-4 yrs)



At this point you may want to wait until Panasonic and Samsung bring out their 2012 models and early purchasers begin to report in, although I am very wary of any claims that Panny makes about their plasma sets given my experience.


----------



## Thanatos9

I'm more weary of buying a new tv without having the massive owners threads to read through. I'm probably going to pick up the 55st30 and hope its without defects and to see how bad the IR is. I know two people with 2-3yr old Panasonic plasmas and they say they still love their tvs. One games a lot and only notices very brief IR when switching between inputs.


With IR, do people find that over time it tends to be less of a potential problem? Or are there cases where it can get worse after 1000+ hours? If I get to 100,200 or 500 hours and the image retention is not a problem, can I expect it to stay similar to that for the following years?


----------



## F27

I have found that IR on my Plasma has got only slightly better since purchase (about 6 months ago) and takes a long time to disappear even on something which was static for 5 minutes. It's actually starting to worry me because its all I think about when watching TV!


People always say 'oh it was also a CRT issue' yet I have never seen anything on anyones old TV staying on screen after it was displayed, even HUD's of console games people have played for hours. How can a newer technology have such problems with rentention?


----------



## Thanatos9

Thanks for the info, F27. Out of curiosity, did you do the d-nice slides, start using it as is, or do something else when you first got your tv?


----------



## F27

I just used it around 200 hours normal TV on half brightness, no slides because I've heard some horror stories! The picture has turned out great but I'm still having some issues with IR which are quite concerning and I think it might be overtime causing uneveness in the pixel wear.


----------



## powertoold

I've used my KRP-500m at 50/60 contrast as a computer monitor for the last 1.5 years. I average about 5-6 hours a day.


I got some IR of the Warcraft 3 HUD (when I turned the Orbiter off completely), but it went away once I varied my content a little. Right now, there's no IR at all. I do a lot of web surfing, YouTubing, some gaming, Excel, chatting, etc. normal stuff. I removed the scroll bars on my web browser, and when I'm not doing any work, I surf in full screen mode. I also use Orbiter 2 in Dot-By-Dot mode, so the whole picture rotates in a small circle very slowly.


Otherwise, I don't really worry about IR anymore. Any bad IR will go away after a few weeks.


----------



## PeterLewis

I have persistent ir on my 1 week old 55GT30.Its from the tv's menu itself.I can see the word "Menu" on light screens from the break in slides.I have run the tv's screen wipe feature a few times,watched Ice Age 2 hoping that it will erase it but unfortunately i can still see it after two days of noticing it.


Granted its dimming some what but its annoying knowing that its there.


Any tips on how to remove/erase it faster?


If by a couple of more weeks and I still notice the ir still there should i return the set or should I live with what I got knowing that the ir should eventually erase?


----------



## crankbait

Peter,


My Panny GT30 suffered some serious IR from gaming over a 10 day period over Christmas and I immediately worked to get rid of it to the extreme of running slides for 100+ hours. It has now been nearly 7 weeks since I noticed it and while it has mostly disappeared I can still see it on light colored backgrounds because I know what I am looking for.


At first I thought it would never go away, I mean after 100 hours of slides it was still there. Now I feel that it will eventually go away completely if I give it another couple months.


Hope that helps in your decision, I know how frustrating it is.


----------



## PeterLewis

@ crankbait,


Thanks for the reply.I need to see signifacant improvement the next couple of weeks or I might be tempted to return it.Otherwise it has been great,Its a Sept. build no fbr,no buzzing,hardly any if any green tint.


Its just my dumb luck putting up the tv screen menu up for a period of time trying to enter settings for custom and what not that the word menu is now showing as ir.


Would you keep the tv or return it if its still noticeable a couple of weeks later?


----------



## Ace1965




PeterLewis said:


> I have persistent ir on my 1 week old 55GT30.Its from the tv's menu itself.I can see the word "Menu" on light screens from the break in slides.I have run the tv's screen wipe feature a few times,watched Ice Age 2 hoping that it will erase it but unfortunately i can still see it after two days of noticing it.
> 
> 
> Granted its dimming some what but its annoying knowing that its there.
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to remove/erase it faster?
> 
> 
> If by a couple of more weeks and I still notice the ir still there should i return the set or should I live with what I got knowing that the ir should eventually erase?[/QUOT
> 
> \\
> 
> 
> You guys have to have defective sets. Return them as soon as you can because should not be happening.
> 
> 
> I abuse my panny to a point that is not even funny with no IR.


----------



## crankbait

Honestly Ace I would have to disagree. I have had the set since last august and kept it in THX mode the entire time. I gamed from the get go and had no IR. In this instance I really did not mix my content up, I just stayed playing the same game for a number of hours a day over a period of a week and a half. I think that is a recipe for IR no matter how many sets I exchange.


I do not think my set is defective and I believe that changing sets at the site of IR is ridiculous. The fact that it is fading and that at this point I have to know what I am looking for on a solid light colored image tells me it is getting better.


I also decided to tone down my THX settings for gaming and am more careful about mixing content. I do love this set but it will not be the last TV I own. As for my thoughts to you Peter, do what you have to but do not be surprised if you see IR on a solid light colored image on your next one as well.


----------



## Ace1965




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crankbait* /forum/post/21649761
> 
> 
> Honestly Ace I would have to disagree. I have had the set since last august and kept it in THX mode the entire time. I gamed from the get go and had no IR. In this instance I really did not mix my content up, I just stayed playing the same game for a number of hours a day over a period of a week and a half. I think that is a recipe for IR no matter how many sets I exchange.
> 
> 
> I do not think my set is defective and I believe that changing sets at the site of IR is ridiculous. The fact that it is fading and that at this point I have to know what I am looking for on a solid light colored image tells me it is getting better.
> 
> 
> I also decided to tone down my THX settings for gaming and am more careful about mixing content. I do love this set but it will not be the last TV I own. As for my thoughts to you Peter, do what you have to but do not be surprised if you see IR on a solid light colored image on your next one as well.






FWIW , there are several on here that claim to play 3 times as much as we do , put together, with absolutely no IR. You can also search some of the serious gamer's forums and read what they do with no IR.

If you can live with it , so be it! Plasma is the bomb.


----------



## crankbait




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ace1965* /forum/post/21650084
> 
> 
> fwiw , there are several on here that claim to play 3 times as much as we do , put together, with absolutely no ir. You can also search some of the serious gamer's forums and read what they do with no ir.
> 
> If you can live with it , so be it! Plasma is the bomb.


----------



## PeterLewis

@Crankbait


I have been using the hd test white paper similar what the hitachi plasma use for there anti ir on therir tv's to try and even out the ir ,since the word "menu "was in white,its shaving it down some.


I love my set and it was my own doing monkeying around alot in the set up menu while my set was brand new obsessing about proper settings and calibrations and I ended up getting snake bit in the process.


You are correct that I can end up with a worse or faulty tv if I exchange this one considering it has been good.I will monitor it and hope for the best that it will completely dissappear soon.


----------



## fcwdev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterLewis* /forum/post/21648956
> 
> 
> I have persistent ir on my 1 week old 55GT30.Its from the tv's menu itself.I can see the word "Menu" on light screens from the break in slides.I have run the tv's screen wipe feature a few times,watched Ice Age 2 hoping that it will erase it but unfortunately i can still see it after two days of noticing it.
> 
> 
> Granted its dimming some what but its annoying knowing that its there.
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to remove/erase it faster?
> 
> 
> If by a couple of more weeks and I still notice the ir still there should i return the set or should I live with what I got knowing that the ir should eventually erase?



If it makes you feal any better I did the same thing. I had the word MENU etched in the upper left corner. I suspect it was during 3D "calibration". Things are extra bright when in 3D mode. I did end up returning mine, but the main reason was the pink and green patches. I did get it to fade to the point that at 10 feet it was difficult to see. THe annoying thing is you need to not use the setup MENU. If you do, get in and out as quickly as possible. I ended up trying to use the Viera Tools menu for as much as possible such as switching between THX and Standard.


Since your TV is young, it will likely fade once the rest of the TV gets worked in. Based upon my research, this could take months.


----------



## jlb32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcwdev* /forum/post/21654483
> 
> 
> If it makes you feal any better I did the same thing. I had the word MENU etched in the upper left corner. I suspect it was during 3D "calibration". Things are extra bright when in 3D mode. I did end up returning mine, but the main reason was the pink and green patches. I did get it to fade to the point that at 10 feet it was difficult to see. THe annoying thing is you need to not use the setup MENU. If you do, get in and out as quickly as possible. I ended up trying to use the Viera Tools menu for as much as possible such as switching between THX and Standard.
> 
> 
> Since your TV is young, it will likely fade once the rest of the TV gets worked in. Based upon my research, this could take months.



I agree. It should fade over time to the point it's not noticable at all.


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *F27* /forum/post/21642976
> 
> 
> I just used it around 200 hours normal TV on half brightness, *no slides because I've heard some horror stories!* The picture has turned out great but I'm still having some issues with IR which are quite concerning and I think it might be overtime causing uneveness in the pixel wear.



Such as?


----------



## Afrdzak

I just want to jump in here and discuss.


I bought a Panasonic plasma P65ST30. I received it around Xmas time. I ran the DNice slides for about 120 hours before I used the set.


Then I started gaming. A combo of Skyrim and DC Universe Online. Also watching some TV and movies.


No problems at all. Including 3 hour gaming sessions.


Then one day, I was playing DC Universe for about 3 hours. I turned things off and went to bed. Mind you, this is after having run the slides for 120 hours, and over 100 hours of Skyrim...plus DC Universe, movies, TV.


When I turned it back on the next day, I had severe image retention. There was no trace of any image retention prior to this, so it all literally happened in one session.


I have my HUD in the upper left of the screen. Teammates HUDs along the left side of the screen. And a power bar on the bottom. Plus some horizontal lines on the right.


I've rerun the slides. I've run the Pixel Flipper from the Disney WOW dvd overnight for a few nights. I've run movies on loops over multiple nights. Animated movies, non-animated movies. You name it.


No real success. I just ordered the Pixel Protector DVD and am hoping the screen washes will help me.


I own a 46 inch Panny Plasma that I got in 2008. I took the same precautions this time around that I took with the old set. I have had ZERO IR on my other plasma.


What should I do?


I didn't think I was abusing the set, but now I have plenty of IR/Burn in. Is this an issue with the actual set?


----------



## Archer444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Afrdzak* /forum/post/21660492
> 
> 
> I just want to jump in here and discuss.
> 
> 
> I bought a Panasonic plasma P65ST30. I received it around Xmas time. I ran the DNice slides for about 120 hours before I used the set.
> 
> 
> Then I started gaming. A combo of Skyrim and DC Universe Online. Also watching some TV and movies.
> 
> 
> No problems at all. Including 3 hour gaming sessions.
> 
> 
> Then one day, I was playing DC Universe for about 3 hours. I turned things off and went to bed. Mind you, this is after having run the slides for 120 hours, and over 100 hours of Skyrim...plus DC Universe, movies, TV.
> 
> 
> When I turned it back on the next day, I had severe image retention. There was no trace of any image retention prior to this, so it all literally happened in one session.
> 
> 
> I have my HUD in the upper left of the screen. Teammates HUDs along the left side of the screen. And a power bar on the bottom. Plus some horizontal lines on the right.
> 
> 
> I've rerun the slides. I've run the Pixel Flipper from the Disney WOW dvd overnight for a few nights. I've run movies on loops over multiple nights. Animated movies, non-animated movies. You name it.
> 
> 
> No real success. I just ordered the Pixel Protector DVD and am hoping the screen washes will help me.
> 
> 
> I own a 46 inch Panny Plasma that I got in 2008. I took the same precautions this time around that I took with the old set. I have had ZERO IR on my other plasma.
> 
> 
> What should I do?
> 
> 
> I didn't think I was abusing the set, but now I have plenty of IR/Burn in. Is this an issue with the actual set?



Do you notice the IR under normal viewing circumstances? (Ex. not a 'white' or 'green' screen or from 6" away). Did you change your picture settings at all prior to this IR? (like bumped up the contrast?)


Total bummer and I hope it goes away!


----------



## Afrdzak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Archer444* /forum/post/21660547
> 
> 
> Do you notice the IR under normal viewing circumstances? (Ex. not a 'white' or 'green' screen or from 6" away). Did you change your picture settings at all prior to this IR? (like bumped up the contrast?)
> 
> 
> Total bummer and I hope it goes away!



Honestly, I can't see it unless it's on a very light screen. Like a blue sky or white background. I sit about 8 feet back. And I can clearly see all of the different spots of IR on my screen. This has been for about 3 weeks now.


But the HUD IR in the upper left also has color to it. So it isn't just grayish ghosting.


Watching sports, watching movies, I usually don't see anything. And if I do, it's the upper left HUD due to the color.


When gaming, I did use the "Game" mode. For normal viewing, I use DNice's settings. I've since stopped using Game mode and only use DNice's settings.


Don't know why they even have a Game mode when it's bad for the TV.


For getting rid of the IR, I've run the slides, movies, and Pixel Flipper in the following modes: DNice's, Vivid, Game.


Just looking for some advice on what I should do, and if I should modify settings.


Thanks!


----------



## Archer444

I agree about the Game Mode! I also use it on my GT30 (as well as THX) but I set the contrast to 50 or lower. I wouldn't worry about the IR if it's only noticeable on light/white screens, as I'm sure it'll go away eventually. I'd just enjoy your TV and keep on pluggin with your games!


----------



## Alpha OTS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Afrdzak* /forum/post/21660627
> 
> 
> Honestly, I can't see it unless it's on a very light screen. Like a blue sky or white background. I sit about 8 feet back. And I can clearly see all of the different spots of IR on my screen. This has been for about 3 weeks now.
> 
> 
> But the HUD IR in the upper left also has color to it. So it isn't just grayish ghosting.
> 
> 
> Watching sports, watching movies, I usually don't see anything. And if I do, it's the upper left HUD due to the color.
> 
> 
> When gaming, I did use the "Game" mode. For normal viewing, I use DNice's settings. I've since stopped using Game mode and only use DNice's settings.
> 
> 
> Don't know why they even have a Game mode when it's bad for the TV.
> 
> 
> For getting rid of the IR, I've run the slides, movies, and Pixel Flipper in the following modes: DNice's, Vivid, Game.
> 
> 
> Just looking for some advice on what I should do, and if I should modify settings.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I joined this site after posting a help request in a general discussion forum on another site. One of the members there pointed me here. You pretty much described my *exact* problem with my Panasonic TC-P50GT30 plasma. The only difference is that I was playing Gears of War, and its those game indicators I can see shadows of in the upper right and left.


What is Dnice's settings?


Here's my original post at the other site. I hope someone here can help us out. I just started browsing this thread, so if there's a particular page of it, or another thread with that would help, I would much appreciate if I could be pointed there.



> Quote:
> I'm angry. I'm hoping this isn't as serious as it looks.
> 
> 
> I own a Panasonic Viera 50" 3D Plasma. I bought it as a birthday present to myself last October. I've been playing Gears of War 3 Horde mode for the last couple weeks. Not in huge 24/7 sessions like a little kid might, but if you've played Horde, you know you're playing it for a good hour or two at a time. I would not classify the game time as unreasonable lengths, and there's been some tv inbetween.
> 
> 
> This week, I noticed that I could see in the upper right and left hand corners of the screen shadows of the game indicators. I run the white bar sweep, repeatedly, and its still there. I confirm the Pixel orbiter is still on. I start doing some research and learn about "Vivd" mode being nicknamed "Torch" mode, how its a bad thing and should be turned off right away. I've been purposefully turning it to "Game" mode, which looks similar to "Vivid" in a way, so now I assume it's "Torch"ing as well. From what I researched, people were suggesting keeping it on THX, and that what I'm seeing is not burn-in, but image retention, and to keep it on with random pics/tv to help clear it. I read one comment that it took weeks to clear, and that burn-in is near impossible with the new sets. I've left the set on with a tv channel in THX since last night, and am planning to continue. I wish I felt confident that its stubborn image retention.
> 
> 
> Like I said I'm angry. Should I have known better. Possibly. However, you shouldn't go calling one of your video modes "Game" and you really shouldn't be including any type of mode that can so easily damage the screen without at least a crapload of warnings. The salesman certainly didn't mention it either. In fact, I remember him saying burn-in wasn't an issue anymore.
> 
> 
> The upside is that I bought an extended warranty with the set that's supposed to cover everything. I haven't looked too close at the details yet, but I'm hoping this is covered. I don't see anything unreasonable about how I used the tv.
> 
> 
> For anyone that has any experience with the newer plasmas, can you help or add any info or constructive comments about my dilemma? Thanks.



I've since glanced through my extended warranty papers and noticed that it covers laptops that have been dropped or have had drinks spilled on them. So I'm thinking this should certainly qualify if it turns out to be permanent. However, I want to keep it on for at least up to a week before making a service call. When do I reach the point where a service call is warranted?


I can't tell yet if keeping the tv on with random images is helping. I think it might be, but I don't yet feel confident that it might not just be wishful thinking on my part. I turned off the 4:3 after I bought it, because I don't mind the image stretching, so that's not an issue.


If this turns out to not be permanent, I am seriously considering unloading the tv for an LCD or LED. My previous set was an LCD that's primary selling feature was 1080p because that was the new thing at the time. I went plasma partially because how I hated how the black levels looked on my LCD. Space scenes or dark scenes simply sucked. But I got rid of that set because it started with some nasty image retention whenever a Green/purple/pink object was on screen for a short period. I considered the set "ancient" at that point, so I didn't mind so much having to buy a new one. Btw, I played *PLENTY* of Gears of War 2 Horde on it, and never had a problem like with this new set.


----------



## GuiBou

Wow I like this post !











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *j0nnyfive* /forum/post/21456215
> 
> 
> After doing some reading in this thread, I feel inspired to write this post for newbies. I understand that there have been many newbie articles written before (too many), but this is my attempt to add something new to the discussion. Keep in mind that this is only my OPINION. Do not take what I say as gospel, and it would behoove you to take most people's opinions about plasma with a large, heavy, grain of salt. In other words, plasma TV, a high-performing TV, asks you to be a high-performing person and do your own thinking for yourself. When you read advice in these forums, take time and ask yourself "Does that make sense?"
> 
> 
> I entitle this post "The Philosophy of Plasma TV." (I know this sounds goofy, just indulge me here.) Now, time to wax philosophical. I will start this speech by saying:
> 
> 
> 
> Television has changed. Back when the old big heavy boxy TVs (CRT) were the norm, life was simple. So many of the options we now take for granted simply were not there. VCR tape players didn't have elaborate menu systems (no static images). Movies were formatted to fit your square screen perfectly (no black bars). Al Gore had not yet given us the Internet to surf from our TVs (using TV as a computer monitor). XBox-360 wasn't around to lower the average person's IQ by about 40 points (Halo). Elder Scrolls video games did not exist (to sit on the screen for hours and hours and days and days). We live in a DIFFERENT time for television.
> 
> 
> The line between "TV" and "computer monitor" has become very thin. As the Internet becomes increasingly ubiquitous, TVs have evolved to suit it's needs. Do you remember when you first started hearing about LCD TV? What was LCD popularly used for before it became TV? That's right! Computer monitors on laptop computers. Computer monitors are designed to withstand static images and long hours of use. The invention of LCD TV has allowed many of these computing activities to be spread (safely) to the TV. So, it has become "normal" to expose current day TVs to hours and hours of black bars, 100+ hour video games, lots of graphical menus, web surfing, and the like. In other words, modern day LCD tvs are built to be handled like a computer monitor, safely. Now...
> 
> 
> Plasma TV hit the market during what I want to call a "transitional period" in television. Plasma was developed under the philosophy of the older TVs. Guess what? When I played video games on my old CRT, I KNEW that I shouldn't leave the game paused for very long (without turning the TV off)! This was NORMAL. We didn't think of this as a hassle. We thought of it as common sense. TVs were machines that got hot. It was "okay" that this was the case. People weren't paranoid with it (at least nobody I knew).
> 
> If image retention DID happen... ah well.. such was life! It lessened with time, and you weren't too picky about it.
> 
> 
> Plasma TV was a teeny tiny little bit more prone to burn-in, but that was because it was a PERFORMANCE machine. Superior picture quality came at a price. Many people were willing to pay this price because the picture was incredibly beautiful. You can't get somethin' for nothin'. However, since LCD tvs have been invented, the public's opinion about TV has changed. It has now become normal to EXPECT a TV to handle anything you throw at it. And this is a feature of LCD. Want to play games for days at a time? Go ahead. Want to watch nothing but movies with black bars? Go ahead. (Can you get stuck images on LCD? Maybe, but it is ludicrously rare, I mean, absurdly rare.)
> 
> 
> So, why are plasma TVs still sold today? Well, to the people who understand it's capabilities, they are sold for their awesome picture performance. But, plasma manufacturers want to sell to MANY people, so they market them as being "for everyone." It is truly debatable as to whether they ARE for everyone. I say no (because of the current day assumptions of TV use).
> 
> 
> The philosophy of plasma TV is of the older TVs. A TV is NOT a computer monitor. A TV is NOT a dedicated gaming station. A TV requires a bit of thoughtful care and it will perform well for you. Everything has a cost. Plasma can produce superior picture quality to LCD and LED, but you have to keep these things in mind. Your kids and wife will expect it to be just like an LCD. Now, are there some LED tvs that can match the (subjective) picture quality of plasma? YES! But, again, everything has a cost (e.g. The Sharp Elite).
> 
> 
> If you are thinking about owning a plasma TV, I ask that you keep these things in mind. If you don't expect perfection (absolutely no image retention, etc), and you are willing to keep an eye on it from time-to-time and break it in properly (keep contrast below 50%, no black bars for a period of time, etc), then plasma is for you. It can produce an amazingly film-like picture that will stun you again and again.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> P.S. (Yeah, I know, this post was kinda inspired by Donnie Darko and maybe a little Fight Club. Oh well... lol)


----------



## crankbait

@Afrdzak


Same thing happened to me, Dead Island life bar and flashlight. Also out of the blue compared to all the other gaming I did. I reckon it was because I did not mix up my gaming. Same that it was only visible on light colors. Check my posts above for the full story.


If I was you I would just stop that game and switch to other content. I can honestly say it is now, after a spot check last night, almost completely gone. Granted I did 100 hours of straight slides at high contrast and having been using the set for other content quite a bit. The flashlight is completely gone and you can really only see the life bar on a solid light colored screen and even then have to know what you are looking for.


I have no idea how and why this happened on this game other than the constant time with that content being displayed. I play Gears all the time, among other games, and have had zero burn in from them.


I think it will go away for you and I think that all of us plasma gamers should be cognizant that we need to vary content in addition to managing our settings.


----------



## SKoprowski

I'm starting to have buyer's remorse now. I picked up a Panasonic TC-P42X3 plasma over the weekend on clearance from Best Buy. It is replacing a 27 tube tv we have had for years. Now it seems I'm getting plasma paranoia. I have been tweaking color settings today spending a lot of time in the tv's menu. I set the contrast lower then the brightness like I read and tried some of the previous poster's calibrations from the xxX3 postings. I then decided to switch to a hdmi input and play some xbox. I switched to the input before I turned on the xbox so a dark screen appeared first. That was then when I could see some image retention from the tv menus- specifically the round circle on the bottom left that shows the return button and round buttons like on your remote. I immediately ran the white swipe bar for a few minutes and it go rid of it. I also fired up the xbox and played literally 2 minutes of Call of Duty and then checked the screen and sure enough you could see some of the hud display. I assume this is what is called image retention vs burn in? Should I just give up playing games on it? If this is an issue- would it also happen with horizontal black bars like you see in some tv programming and bluray/dvd movies? I am about ready to take the TV back now and get a LCD. I had thought this was not as big an issue anymore. Am I just overreacting?


----------



## Mastperf

Image retention is normal. As long as it goes away it's fine. How many hours have you used the tv?


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mastperf* /forum/post/21676425
> 
> 
> Image retention is normal. As long as it goes away it's fine. How many hours have you used the tv?



I got the TV Friday night- I bet I have maybe 10-15 hours on it.


----------



## Mastperf

It's completely normal to get image retention, especially when the set is brand new. I would recommend running as much content as possible while still within your return period to make sure the set doesn't have any defects. Make sure to run things full-screen and without any logos like blu-rays and dvd's. Avoid black bars from movies and 4:3 content as well. After you get some hours on your set, you can run anything you want but just try to run full screen content after any long session with black bars or gaming.

You should look for some recommended picture settings for your set. Make sure not to have the picture settings set on Vivid and try to keep contrast and brightness low for the first couple of hundred hours or so.

You'll learn to ignore image retention in time. It's just gonna take time for your brain to get comfortable with the fact that it's normal.


----------



## PeterLewis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterLewis* /forum/post/21648956
> 
> 
> I have persistent ir on my 1 week old 55GT30.Its from the tv's menu itself.I can see the word "Menu" on light screens from the break in slides.I have run the tv's screen wipe feature a few times,watched Ice Age 2 hoping that it will erase it but unfortunately i can still see it after two days of noticing it.
> 
> 
> Granted its dimming some what but its annoying knowing that its there.
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to remove/erase it faster?
> 
> 
> If by a couple of more weeks and I still notice the ir still there should i return the set or should I live with what I got knowing that the ir should eventually erase?



Well just an update:


Its been 2 weeks since this post^ and the stubborn menu IR is about 97% dissappeared,i have to squint to see it.So it gives me hope that it is not burn in and that it should be completely gone soon.PHEW!!!


I used pixel protector wash 1 for many hours at a time and I also unplugged the tv for 24+hrs per panasonic consierge recommenation,which seemed to help.


I'am thrilled that its going away as it was driving me nuts and was about to return it just for that reason as it is a great set wth no buzzing and has a fantastic picture.If anything, I broke in this sucker pretty good as the colors look super now in THX mode and Dave O settings'.


----------



## Tinderbox (UK)

Do you guys with long lasting IR have the orbit setting enabled in the menu, on my LG it`s supposed to move the screen every two minutes.


John.


----------



## Afrdzak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tinderbox (UK)* /forum/post/21699928
> 
> 
> Do you guys with long lasting IR have the orbit setting enabled in the menu, on my LG it`s supposed to move the screen every two minutes.
> 
> 
> John.



I do use the orbiting pixels feature. It's been on since the day the set showed up to my house.


----------



## Afrdzak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterLewis* /forum/post/21699917
> 
> 
> Well just an update:
> 
> 
> Its been 2 weeks since this post^ and the stubborn menu IR is about 97% dissappeared,i have to squint to see it.So it gives me hope that it is not burn in and that it should be completely gone soon.PHEW!!!
> 
> 
> I used pixel protector wash 1 for many hours at a time and I also unplugged the tv for 24+hrs per panasonic consierge recommenation,which seemed to help.
> 
> 
> I'am thrilled that its going away as it was driving me nuts and was about to return it just for that reason as it is a great set wth no buzzing and has a fantastic picture.If anything, I broke in this sucker pretty good as the colors look super now in THX mode and Dave O settings'.



That's good to hear. I've been using a combo of Disney WOW DVD pixel flipper and Pixel Protector DVD screen washes.


Unfortunately, I haven't seen much, if any, improvement.


----------



## tfoltz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Afrdzak* /forum/post/21719293
> 
> 
> That's good to hear. I've been using a combo of Disney WOW DVD pixel flipper and Pixel Protector DVD screen washes.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I haven't seen much, if any, improvement.



It can take a long time for IR to fade. It took a couple months before the COD4 HUD disappeared from my 50px80u a few years ago. I have had the 65ST30 since July and play DC Universe and a variety of other games. IR occurs, but it will go away. If you continue to play DCUO, make sure to adjust the transparency of the HUD in your settings.


----------



## Afrdzak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tfoltz* /forum/post/21721509
> 
> 
> It can take a long time for IR to fade. It took a couple months before the COD4 HUD disappeared from my 50px80u a few years ago. I have had the 65ST30 since July and play DC Universe and a variety of other games. IR occurs, but it will go away. If you continue to play DCUO, make sure to adjust the transparency of the HUD in your settings.



Yep! I've done that since the IR reared its head. Ever notice after a cut scene how the transparency goes back to full brightness and you have to put it back? So annoying!


I've also changed my screen size settings so the HUD is in a slightly different spot than it was originally.


----------



## epibole

New to plasmas. These forums have been an amazing resource so far!


I'm wondering about how this whole break-in process works with a TV that has already seen a bit of use. I purchased a floor model Panasonic S30 yesterday (great price), and I can see the faint outline of the Food Network and ESPN logos in the bottom right corner, obviously from the store having left those channels running for some length. They're only visible while displaying some of the coloured slides I've been using to try to break the TV in. I don't see them at all while watching TV or playing games. My questions are:


1. Is there a way to tell whether this is burn-in or just IR, without knowing how long the store had those channels running?


2. Should I still go through the break-in process with the television, even though it's probably seen more than 100 hours of use? Will the TV suffer any long-term consequences as a result of not being properly broken in by the store? Can it still be saved?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## hungro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *epibole* /forum/post/21746590
> 
> 
> New to plasmas. These forums have been an amazing resource so far!
> 
> 
> I'm wondering about how this whole break-in process works with a TV that has already seen a bit of use. I purchased a floor model Panasonic S30 yesterday (great price), and I can see the faint outline of the Food Network and ESPN logos in the bottom right corner, obviously from the store having left those channels running for some length. They're only visible while displaying some of the coloured slides I've been using to try to break the TV in. I don't see them at all while watching TV or playing games. My questions are:
> 
> 
> 1. Is there a way to tell whether this is burn-in or just IR, without knowing how long the store had those channels running?
> 
> 
> 2. Should I still go through the break-in process with the television, even though it's probably seen more than 100 hours of use? Will the TV suffer any long-term consequences as a result of not being properly broken in by the store? Can it still be saved?
> 
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!



Depending how long the tv has been used as a demo model , I don't think a "break in" will be necessary. Though I would change the setting from torch mode to THX or Cinema and then calibrate from there at least your user menu settings. Contrast, Brightness, Color/Tint, Sharpness, etc. and turn off all other enhancements. I forget the names I don't know too much about the model of tv you have, sorry.


There is no way of telling if it's IR or Burn In as far as I know.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *epibole* /forum/post/21746590
> 
> 
> New to plasmas. These forums have been an amazing resource so far!
> 
> 
> I'm wondering about how this whole break-in process works with a TV that has already seen a bit of use. I purchased a floor model Panasonic S30 yesterday (great price), and I can see the faint outline of the Food Network and ESPN logos in the bottom right corner, obviously from the store having left those channels running for some length. They're only visible while displaying some of the coloured slides I've been using to try to break the TV in. I don't see them at all while watching TV or playing games. My questions are:
> 
> 
> 1. Is there a way to tell whether this is burn-in or just IR, without knowing how long the store had those channels running?
> 
> 
> 2. Should I still go through the break-in process with the television, even though it's probably seen more than 100 hours of use? Will the TV suffer any long-term consequences as a result of not being properly broken in by the store? Can it still be saved?
> 
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!



Hi

Start watching video content that have no logos for a week with 6 to 8 hours of viewing daily,If that Logos start fading then its IR.And if you see action movies with frames & location changing quite fast that would help lot better.And another thing is when you buy something cheap or discounted there is a always a catch.

And if you go to the service menu you will know how many hours your tv was used.I think some one here could help you as to how to enter the service menu.

Wish you all the best.


Love,

kris.


----------



## RascalMJ

I did a lot of research and decided on the ever popular Panny ST30 (55" version). I just purchased from Amazon and it arrived yesterday. I am about to run the slides from D-Nice and set it up properly when I was forced to take a look at some of our recent viewing habit changes and now i am worried.


We recently had a new little baby boy and since my wife is breastfeeding, she like to watch netflix and just let it run.... then she falls asleep. We use the PS3 and it has a built in "dimmer" type thing that dims the display after inactivity, but I am worried that might be an issue.


Also we like to play music for our 2yr old and the PS3 has a screensaver type thing, BUT the track number stays on the screen for a the whole time and sometimes if he decides he likes a song we out it on repeat for heaven knows how long.


These recent changes have me rethinking my plasma decision.... any thoughts? Am I worrying about it too much?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RascalMJ* /forum/post/21755748
> 
> 
> I did a lot of research and decided on the ever popular Panny ST30 (55" version). I just purchased from Amazon and it arrived yesterday. I am about to run the slides from D-Nice and set it up properly when I was forced to take a look at some of our recent viewing habit changes and now i am worried.
> 
> 
> We recently had a new little baby boy and since my wife is breastfeeding, she like to watch netflix and just let it run.... then she falls asleep. We use the PS3 and it has a built in "dimmer" type thing that dims the display after inactivity, but I am worried that might be an issue.
> 
> 
> Also we like to play music for our 2yr old and the PS3 has a screensaver type thing, BUT the track number stays on the screen for a the whole time and sometimes if he decides he likes a song we out it on repeat for heaven knows how long.
> 
> 
> These recent changes have me rethinking my plasma decision.... any thoughts? Am I worrying about it too much?



Hi,

I think there is nothing much to worry.Allow your wife and kid to enjoy the plasma till you return home.Once you are there either run color slides or view a full length HD movie or HD episode which covers the entire screen.That's it.

If its runs 2 to 3 hours like that before switching off the plasma tv for the day.I think there should be no problem at all.But see to it that you kid does not watch those slides,since all kids are very attracted to lights & colours.

And when using PS3 as a music server.you can ask your wife to always turn the plasma tv to stand by mode.I assume you have a dedicated amplifier to output the sound from your PS3 unit.If you don't just buy a 2.1 creative or any cheap computer speakers.

By the way your tv is a great choice,and even i own a panny 50 inches model and its around one year old now.And once your tv has put 500hrs or around 2 years of regular usage they become more or less sturdy as a normal CRT tv's.

And before signing off,give my kisses to your baby.










Love,

kris.


----------



## RascalMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21759319
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think there is nothing much to worry.Allow your wife and kid to enjoy the plasma till you return home.Once you are there either run color slides or view a full length HD movie or HD episode which covers the entire screen.That's it.
> 
> If its runs 2 to 3 hours like that before switching off the plasma tv for the day.I think there should be no problem at all.But see to it that you kid does not watch those slides,since all kids are very attracted to lights & colours.
> 
> And when using PS3 as a music server.you can ask your wife to always turn the plasma tv to stand by mode.I assume you have a dedicated amplifier to output the sound from your PS3 unit.If you don't just buy a 2.1 creative or any cheap computer speakers.
> 
> By the way your tv is a great choice,and even i own a panny 50 inches model and its around one year old now.And once your tv has put 500hrs or around 2 years of regular usage they become more or less sturdy as a normal CRT tv's.
> 
> And before signing off,give my kisses to your baby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love,
> 
> kris.



Yeah, I figure we will adjust our viewing/usage habits once we figure out what all the ST30 has to offer as far as features. We'll also proabbly stop using the PS3 as a music player/netflix streamer as the ST30 has interent and apps (hopfully netflix works well)


----------



## willieconway




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RascalMJ* /forum/post/21755748
> 
> 
> I did a lot of research and decided on the ever popular Panny ST30 (55" version). I just purchased from Amazon and it arrived yesterday. I am about to run the slides from D-Nice and set it up properly when I was forced to take a look at some of our recent viewing habit changes and now i am worried.
> 
> 
> We recently had a new little baby boy and since my wife is breastfeeding, she like to watch netflix and just let it run.... then she falls asleep. We use the PS3 and it has a built in "dimmer" type thing that dims the display after inactivity, but I am worried that might be an issue.
> 
> 
> Also we like to play music for our 2yr old and the PS3 has a screensaver type thing, BUT the track number stays on the screen for a the whole time and sometimes if he decides he likes a song we out it on repeat for heaven knows how long.
> 
> 
> These recent changes have me rethinking my plasma decision.... any thoughts? Am I worrying about it too much?



On the PS3 you can get rid of track info by hitting Select. It'll toggle between the various options incl. one with no overlay at all.


----------



## RascalMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willieconway* /forum/post/21761231
> 
> 
> On the PS3 you can get rid of track info by hitting Select. It'll toggle between the various options incl. one with no overlay at all.



Awesome... thanks for the tip. I knew one of the buttons scrolled through the different "scenes", but never thought to look for one of those to get rid of the track info


----------



## darien87

Hey guys,


New plasma owner here. I've got about 20 hours on my new Samsung PN64D8000, 2 of which were running the break in slide show. I played BF3 for a couple of hours last night and everything seems fine so far.


My question is this, what about watching movies in letterbox format? I was going to watch Blitz last night but even with the TV on Zoom there were still black bars at the top and bottom. Will this be a problem?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darien87* /forum/post/21768005
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> New plasma owner here. I've got about 20 hours on my new Samsung PN64D8000, 2 of which were running the break in slide show. I played BF3 for a couple of hours last night and everything seems fine so far.
> 
> 
> My question is this, what about watching movies in letterbox format? I was going to watch Blitz last night but even with the TV on Zoom there were still black bars at the top and bottom. Will this be a problem?



Hi,

I have watched few 16:9 BD movies with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen,but i did so only after completing 100hrs of normal hd content viewing.And i did not break my tv using colour slides since i did not calibrate my panny plasma.But in your case its prudent to put 150 to 200hrs of usage before going in for 16:9 cinema content(i.e with black bars top & bottom of the screen)

And every tv brand,series and its manufactures quality differs from country to country from where they are made.Since i do not own a sammy i do not know much about its IR and resistance to burn-in.I repeat first 100hrs are very crucial,since the phosphor is very sensitive.But in case if you want to show-off your tv to your friends & relatives in 16:9 ratio with black bars,then do these things..

1) allow the plasma to warm up with regular content for 30 to 45 minutes before playing that 16:9 content.


2) once you have completed the movie,run colour slides with duration of 15 to 20 seconds duration per colour,use the slide method and not the fade in fade out type.For about half an hour to one hour.


Just in case after watching the movie,if you do not see any IR lines,then i would suggest you need not run the slides...Just switch the tv to some regular tv content.And the popular belief about IR is that if you do not repeat the same content over and over again,you are safe without any image burn-in !


So stop worrying and start enjoying your new tv.Happy viewing










love,

kris.


----------



## darien87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21770969
> 
> 
> .But in case if you want to show-off your tv to your friends & relatives in 16:9 ratio with black bars,then do these things..



Thanks for the info. It's not a matter of showing off, it's that I've got movies sitting at home from my BB online service. If they're just sitting there, then they are in effect costing me money. I try to watch my movies as quickly as possible so I can get the most for my monthly subscription fee.


----------



## RascalMJ

OH NO!!!


I was nosey and decided to check the status of my ST30. I check it every day to make sure it didn't turn off or anything, and I thought it looked a little "light/not bright" but thought maybe it was the angle... it is on the floor in a corner of my room.


Tonight I checked the menu and it has been running since Friday night in STANDARD MODE!!!!! I must not have saved the changes I made or something....


ANY ADVICE. (IE....do I get partial credit for the hours I ran in standard! ugh


Of course I changed the settings and I am running now.....


----------



## Mastperf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RascalMJ* /forum/post/21774926
> 
> 
> OH NO!!!
> 
> 
> I was nosey and decided to check the status of my ST30. I check it every day to make sure it didn't turn off or anything, and I thought it looked a little "light/not bright" but thought maybe it was the angle... it is on the floor in a corner of my room.
> 
> 
> Tonight I checked the menu and it has been running since Friday night in STANDARD MODE!!!!! I must not have saved the changes I made or something....
> 
> 
> ANY ADVICE. (IE....do I get partial credit for the hours I ran in standard! ugh
> 
> 
> Of course I changed the settings and I am running now.....



It's ok, don't worry about it. This stuff is made out to be far more serious than is necessary. Just adjust it to where it was supposed to be and continue from there.


----------



## MR_AWESOME55

Hey, New Samsung PN51D550 owner here!


I just got my TV yesterday and I haven't turned it on at all yet. I'm planning on using it mainly for gaming and for watching movies and TV shows (not much though). I mainly play Borderlands and Battlefield 3 which both have HUDs. I've just been reading through some comments here and decided not to do anything with it until I could be sure it was properly broken in.


I keep hearing a lot about these colour slides, and I'm not entirely sure if they are on the Break-in DVD in the beginning of this thread or elsewhere. Also, I hear that Samsung claims that their TVs don't require a break-in period, but I also hear that it is strongly advised.


Anyway, I haven't looked through this thread in depth yet because I'm just about to head out, but does anyone have experience with this TV or this series of TVs? What advice could you give to someone new to plasma TVs?


Thanks for any help!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MR_AWESOME55* /forum/post/21795245
> 
> 
> Hey, New Samsung PN51D550 owner here!
> 
> 
> I just got my TV yesterday and I haven't turned it on at all yet. I'm planning on using it mainly for gaming and for watching movies and TV shows (not much though). I mainly play Borderlands and Battlefield 3 which both have HUDs. I've just been reading through some comments here and decided not to do anything with it until I could be sure it was properly broken in.
> 
> 
> I keep hearing a lot about these colour slides, and I'm not entirely sure if they are on the Break-in DVD in the beginning of this thread or elsewhere. Also, I hear that Samsung claims that their TVs don't require a break-in period, but I also hear that it is strongly advised.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I haven't looked through this thread in depth yet because I'm just about to head out, but does anyone have experience with this TV or this series of TVs? What advice could you give to someone new to plasma TVs?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help!



Hi,

Running colour slides continuously for the first 100 hrs is to break the prosper evenly and quickly so as one could calibrate the panel.If you are not going to get your panel professionally calibrated then i recommend you start using your tv to watch tv programs,BD content & play games in it.Just see to it that the screen is full without any black bars and if your tv programs have channel logos,then keep changing channel for every half an hour to other channel.This just a precautionary measure you must take for the first 100 hrs or so.Just to prevent getting stubborn IR.

My plasma is from panasonic brand,i did get mild IR,which used to disappear in just 3 minutes watching different contents.And i have not run colour slides and neither i have calibrated my panel.Quite happy with my custom settings.

And here is a link to my settings...







.


----------



## MR_AWESOME55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21796635
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Running colour slides continuously for the first 100 hrs is to break the prosper evenly and quickly so as one could calibrate the panel.If you are not going to get your panel professionally calibrated then i recommend you start using your tv to watch tv programs,BD content & play games in it.Just see to it that the screen is full without any black bars and if your tv programs have channel logos,then keep changing channel for every half an hour to other channel.This just a precautionary measure you must take for the first 100 hrs or so.Just to prevent getting stubborn IR.
> 
> My plasma is from panasonic brand,i did get mild IR,which used to disappear in just 3 minutes watching different contents.And i have not run colour slides and neither i have calibrated my panel.Quite happy with my custom settings.
> 
> And here is a link to my settings...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Alright, well I do not really have any cable in my room here, but I have PLENTY of SD content. We have another plasma TV in a different room, and it has an option that will stretch SD content to fill the entire screen.


If I were to apply this option to my current TV, would it be an acceptable alternative to watching HD content?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MR_AWESOME55* /forum/post/21801032
> 
> 
> Alright, well I do not really have any cable in my room here, but I have PLENTY of SD content. We have another plasma TV in a different room, and it has an option that will stretch SD content to fill the entire screen.
> 
> 
> If I were to apply this option to my current TV, would it be an acceptable alternative to watching HD content?



Hi,

yes you can watch any SD content in plasma tv,only thing is it will be less clear compared to the HD content.And modern HDTV looks lot better with HD content.So when your budget permits buy a BD player,HD Set top box,DTH-HD or PS3 unit since all this are capable of sending out 1080 resolution video to your tv.

And first 100hrs or so is crucial for any plasma tv.By the way if you have a DVD player with hdmi out then even you SD dvds would look lot better in it ! And those Dvd players with hdmi out are dam cheap these days.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *249cyf4hh* /forum/post/21801095
> 
> 
> Tace13: "Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen. It had been frozen there for 6 hours. Pretty happy about that.



Hi,

Sorry to hear what has happened.Its always safe to monitor elec products when they are working.Unattended consumer durable are bound to fail.

And dvd player which are around 3 to 5 year old,tend to do this.And there are many moving parts like motors,lens tracking shaft,the DAC all get heated up.Since they are designed to work for one and half hours to 3 hours at most.i.e sufficient to watch one normal movie on a dual-layer dvd disc.

but you can use the SD card reader option,which is much safer than using the dvd player.Today's BD players too all have this SD card slot or usb slot in that case one could use a USB pen drive.

Here is a clip of that....But i personally feel one need not use the colour slides if one is not so keen on getting their plasma tv professional calibrated.







.


----------



## MR_AWESOME55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/21801233
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> yes you can watch any SD content in plasma tv,only thing is it will be less clear compared to the HD content.And modern HDTV looks lot better with HD content.So when your budget permits buy a BD player,HD Set top box,DTH-HD or PS3 unit since all this are capable of sending out 1080 resolution video to your tv.
> 
> And first 100hrs or so is crucial for any plasma tv.By the way if you have a DVD player with hdmi out then even you SD dvds would look lot better in it ! And those Dvd players with hdmi out are dam cheap these days.



Excellent! Yeah, I've got a PS3, so I'm sure I can get some HD content on there and get to watching! I actually just tested it out with a couple games and it looks awesome so far, I'm excited!


Thanks for all of your help!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MR_AWESOME55* /forum/post/21801410
> 
> 
> Excellent! Yeah, I've got a PS3, so I'm sure I can get some HD content on there and get to watching! I actually just tested it out with a couple games and it looks awesome so far, I'm excited!
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of your help!



You are welcome,and happy viewing ! And by the way some new movies,concerts & animated movies do fill the screen full.If you buy such BD's then you can run that movie every day to age the prosper for the first 100 or 150 hrs.So rent some movies to see which one fills the screen.Them buy those from amazon.com.


love,

kris.


----------



## carguy53714

Hello All, Noob here. looking at picking up the new samsung PN51E550D1FXZA from best buy to replace my current samsung that crapped out on me, glad to have geeksquad. Anyway, have any of you guys heard any pro's or con's about this set? Will pro calibration provide a noticable difference in pic quality? Any suggested settings? Thanks in advance


----------



## AVS66

For some of you who run color slides, how do you set the time between each slide?


I have a Samsung. The options to run the slides in usb are: fast, normal, slow. Even slow, it was about 4,5 sec. Is there a way I can set longer like 20 sec?


----------



## sxemama

I downloaded the Burn-in SVCD from that site. It said it was a serious of images, but all it is, is a white screen. I fast forwarded it and its just colors. Is that all it is or did something go wrong? Also how long do i have to play this before I can use my plasma? Thanks


ETA: I have a 51" Samsung Plasma 450


----------



## iBrad

Improved break in/aging files or fix other display issues!


Download these files:

http://www.mediafire.com/?vo7x0d0dyvy5xdj 


PixelOptimizer1920.mp4

---
http://www.mediafire.com/?81scr3r9r4z58un 


PixelburninSmooth1920.mp4

----

Panasonic plasma tv's:

1)Put those mp4 files on a SD card and then insert it in the tv SD slot.

2)Enter Menu/Setup/Display Settings/Banner Display Timeout => 0 (No display) [=not necessary]

3)Play the video with Repeat On!

---

Purpose: general pixel breakin/optimizer, IR/pixel resetter, image burnin/screen conformity preventer/eraser etc..

---

Procedure:

1) Play a) PixelOptimizer1920.mp4 or b) PixelburninSmooth1920.mp4 with Repeat On (= endless loop).

2) Set Contrast to Max and Color Mid to Max. Brightness to Mid or/to Max. (set first 100hrs Contrast at Low or/to Mid), (experiment it all for the "best" setting).

3) Play the video for 2 hours till 24/or more hours continuously. You can check every few hours if the effect you're after has reach or not i.e. IR gone or not, else continu playing.

Generally warm room/ambient temperature needs less "warmup" time then colder temperature (experiment it with different duration for the "best"result).

4) Both files interchangeable for playing i.e. play 4hrs a) then 4hrs b) then 4hrs a) etc. or 8hrs a) then 8hrs b) etc.. (experiment it for "best")

---

Description:

a) PixelOptimizer1920.mp4 flashes fast through RGB/CYM/B/W= RedGreenBlue/CyanYellowMagenta/Black/White solid screens/frames with the max Contrast settings, this will warmup/cooling each pixel in the display properly/intensively.

-main use: general pixel breakin/optimizer, possible fix/revive stuck/dead pixels and related issues. (experiment which is best)

-maintenance run weekly/monthy or at will to keep the display at optimal performance.


b) PixelburninSmooth1920.mp4 flashes with smooth transitions through White/RGB, this will warmup each pixel color longer active with smoothly cooling effects.

-main use: IR/pixel resetter, image burnin/screen conformity preventer/eraser and as a) purposes. (experiment which is best)

-maintenance run weekly/monthy or at will to keep the display at optimal performance.

---

Notes:

1) As the display warms up due these tests, (loud) cracking/hum noises is normal due warmup and coolingdown of the electronics/display/case.

2) Uneven screen conformity/discoloration in a solid (white) color screen is considered normal due differences in room temperature, worst in the colder room temperature.

In General:

- Display needs warmup time, normally after at least 1 or more hrs use in normal/optimal room/ambient temperature 20-22 Celcius.

- Calibration of the display needs at least 1hour of warmup first.

---

Ok, share/spread your experience and results with us/others here/there etc..


Good luck!


Disclaimer: Do this at your Own Risk, I'm no responsible for any consequences!


----------



## Siendra

I just recently bought my first plasma and I'm in the process of breaking it in. Can I use the Colour Wash mode to do this? I've been watching full screen content and looping a full screen movie trailer through my PS3 thus far, but I'd like to continue to break it in while at work and I don't want to risk the PS3 or one of my other video sources locking up while I'm out.


----------



## iBrad

*Pixel Jogger Breakin Improves PQ Plasma/LCD/LED TV...the only way!*


Ok, STOP using those useless break-in slides/stills, its actually damage the pixels. It break-in the pixels in uneven way and possible causing uneven screen color IR etc. [Plasma Tv & Break-In Slides.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJjR1OjOlmg ]


Pixel Jogger Breakin Improves PQ Plasma/LCD/LED TV...the only CORRECT way!


By simply displaying alternate Black and White screens in 30fps (= max NTSC screen 60Hz refresh rate), the PLASMA/LCD/LED pixels gets the CORRECT even/proper/intensive break-in/warm-up! All RGB Pixels will simply switches ON/OFF in 60Hz, this will jog/warm-up the pixels to switch faster and even.


Try it yourself, let the video play a few hours and see it yourself, you will notice it directly!.

PictureQuality comes to Life in your face! Testproof it yourself now!. (and also see the real differences between properly break-in/warm-up PLASMA/LCD/LED displays)


AMAZING overall (3D like) PictureQuality improvements in:

1) Higher Contrast/Deeper Black Level.

2) Higher Details Resolution.

3) Vibrant lifelike Colors (if your WhiteBalance is properly calibrated).

4) Faster/smoother movements.

etc..

Samples on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S-zDy9-_Lg 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOfEwdDhjo0 


Pixel Jogger Breakin Improve your Plasma/LCD/LED TV...the only way!


a) Pixel Jogger.mp4 - 352 KB

http://www.mediafire.com/?hq5rv78qu1d9dhd 


b) Pixel Jogger plus PinkNoise.mp4 - 2 MB

http://www.mediafire.com/?3i79g9u6rop4zd1 


c) WhitescreenIR.mp4 - 1 MB

http://www.mediafire.com/?evee88qfnxarphi 

---


Purpose: general pixel break-in/optimizer, IR/pixel resetter, image burnin/screen conformity preventer/eraser etc..

---

Description:

a) Pixel Jogger.mp4 flashes alternate 0% Black/100% White screens to switch the RGB pixels on/off in max. NTSC 30fps (frames per second) display mode.


This will warmup/cooling each pixel in the display properly/intensively.

-main use: general pixel break-in/optimizer, possible fix/revive stuck/dead pixels and related issues. (experiment which is best)

-maintenance run weekly/monthy or at will to keep the display at optimal performance.


b) Same as a) plus audio pink noise for break/burn-in the audio speakers/circuits.

---


Purpose: IR eraser plus pink noise audio optimizer.


c) WhitescreenIR.mp4 display 100% solid white screen to erase any IR effects, check every 5 minutes of play if IR is erased, else continue or Pixel Jogger.

---


Ok, share/spread your experience and results with us/others here/there etc..


Disclaimer: Do this at your Own Risk, I'm no responsible for any consequences!


----------



## DeWesp

I live in a PAL-region. Can I use these videos on my ST50? Cause they are NTSC.


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeWesp* /forum/post/21934370
> 
> 
> I live in a PAL-region. Can I use these videos on my ST50? Cause they are NTSC.



Yes, it will work, it is not region protected.

Let us know your results!


----------



## AnnaJune

Well, I'm sure glad I stumbled across this thread! I have been researching plasmas for quite some time before I purchase my first HDTV next month, and was pretty much settled on the Panasonic 50UT50.


But now that I've read through a great deal of this thread (3 hours now) I have no idea why anyone would buy a plasma!







How can people who care so much about IQ that they refuse to buy LCD then say "yeah, you get IR all the time, but it's not that noticeable... don't worry about it" !!?? Why in the world would anyone settle for this? Least of all "videophiles" who convinced me plasma was the only way to go!










I bet you I would notice and be bothered far more by image retention -- or just the constant worry about watching too much of the "wrong kind" of programming -- than any IQ shortcomings of LCD.


I am rather astonished that people keep saying for years that "burn-in problems are a thing of the past, don't worry about it..." I hear a lot of patronizing "don't worry your pretty little head about it" talk and then see in this thread that these issues are FAR from resolved in 2012! If I have to "be careful" of what is on the screen and for how long at time, from letterboxes or pillarboxes to news tickers and station logos -- OMG, don't worry about it??


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AnnaJune* /forum/post/21939604
> 
> 
> Well, I'm sure glad I stumbled across this thread! I have been researching plasmas for quite some time before I purchase my first HDTV next month, and was pretty much settled on the "Panasonic 50UT50".
> 
> 
> But now that I've read through a great deal of this thread (3 hours now) I have no idea why anyone would buy a plasma! How can people who care so much about IQ that they refuse to buy LCD then say "yeah, you get IR all the time, but it's not that noticeable... don't worry about it" !!?? Why in the world would anyone settle for this? Least of all "videophiles" who convinced me plasma was the only way to go!
> 
> 
> I bet you I would notice and be bothered far more by image retention -- or just the constant worry about watching too much of the "wrong kind" of programming -- than any IQ shortcomings of LCD.
> 
> 
> I am rather astonished that people keep saying for years that "burn-in problems are a thing of the past, don't worry about it..." I hear a lot of patronizing "don't worry your pretty little head about it" talk and then see in this thread that these issues are FAR from resolved in 2012! If I have to "be careful" of what is on the screen and for how long at time, from letterboxes or pillarboxes to news tickers and station logos -- OMG, don't worry about it??



Very well said,But i must say that it's a matter of taste & personal preference and people like me prefer to buy plasma tv.And if iam to buy a new hdtv in the future it will also be a plasma tv from panasonic VT line up 50 inches above.For me the plasma tv feels gentle on my eyes.And i have waited all these years for my crt 34inches sony trinitron to fail.Just because i did not like the colors of LCD tv's,very glaring and horrible blacks.I still love the crt tv's but its a shame that manufactures have stopped making it.

And as far as IR and burn issues are concerned you are right about plasmas but i feel plasma tv's are for movie buffs like me,who use their tv's to watch movies and not to watch sports,news channels or as a computer monitor !


So its a matter of preference and iam glad that though the plasma technology is bit out dated compared to LED or OLED tv's,Still they are being manufactured because there are still people who love this technology which feels more like the old crt tv's.


I use my plasma v series tv for 6 hours daily and its one year old now.Initially as you told even i used to get IR even from the TV's menu but would go away in 5 to 10 minutes of regular viewing of HD content.But now i have noticed that the phosphors have settled down and i even watch 16:9 movies with black bars on top and bottom.And there is no IR.And i have used my plasma for a year carefully but now iam pushing my plasma to its limits just to see how sturdy its towards IR & Burn-In after a year of regular usage...And we watch news channels with stickers,sports channel with stickers & bright logos.The tv is performing great no problem at all.


What i want to insist here is if one loves the color & feel of LCD's then there is no point buying a low end plasma tv of small size(i.e 42 to 46 inches).If one is going in for plasma it should be the GT,VT models with screen size of 50 inches & above ! And using it for watching BD or High Def movies from DTH-HD broadcast.

And to own a plasma one do need to have some amount of patience,previous experience as well.While LCD tv's on the other hand are ready to be used out of their box right a way !


Here are some links on the VT model :

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P65VT50 

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...trackInfo=true 


Love,

kris.


----------



## Matt Stieg

When you guys run break-in slides, do you generally use the brighter dynamic/vivid settings (I would think that would help age the phosphors quicker) or gentler movie/cinema settings?


----------



## zoyd

 Here is a custom window washer - please provide feedback on whether it is any more or less effective removing IR than whatever you are currently using. It's an mp4 file and plays fine on my samsung so if you need another format also let me know. thanks.


----------



## whipit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Matt Stieg* /forum/post/21941225
> 
> 
> When you guys run break-in slides, do you generally use the brighter dynamic/vivid settings (I would think that would help age the phosphors quicker) or gentler movie/cinema settings?



Your guess is right, you want to run the contrast at 100% and brightness about 50.


----------



## Jake Ironshirt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoyd* /forum/post/21941915
> 
> Here is a custom window washer - please provide feedback on whether it is any more or less effective removing IR than whatever you are currently using. It's an mp4 file and plays fine on my samsung so if you need another format also let me know. thanks.




I'll burn it to DVD and give it a try for one hour a day for seven days. I have a Panasonic V10 65" -couple years old. Lower left hand corner FOX News logo did a number. I'll post back.

Thanks

Jake


----------



## zoyd

ok thanks, turn up contrast and cell/panel brightness (if you have those) to max while running it and let me know if 7 hours has any effect at all.


----------



## Capt Plasma

Hello everyone, just want to start off by saying thanks for all the great information.


My bogus situation:

I've managed to burn in the outline of the ESPN ticker complete with logo into the bottom of the screen. Noticed it just after the 30-day return period ended. Quickly found out burn in isn't covered under warranty. Yikes!


I've spent the last two months or so running the burn in protection bars overnight and adjusting the ticker image while viewing so that it's off the bottom of the screen with the hope of getting the retained image to disappear.


It's gotten lighter, but refuses to go away completely. I'm now officially frustrated.


Questions:

1. If you've had a real burn-in problem (not image retention) and fixed it (made it go away completely), what, exactly, did you do?


2. Assuming the image isn't going away any time soon, does anyone know what I might say to Samsung to get them to replace the set? (If I had it to do over again, I'm pretty sure knowing what I know now I could keep the problem from manifesting.)


3. Finally, I know some magic words to say that might get Samsung to replace the screen. Is this option viable, or will this procedure negatively effect the lifespan of the set to the point where it's not worth doing?


Your thoughts greatly appreciated!


----------



## Damiene

How long had you left it on ESPN?


----------



## Capt Plasma




Damiene said:


> How long had you left it on ESPN?[/
> 
> 
> I'd say the TV was on for about 30 hours a week. Of that, probably 75% was ESPN or ESPN2 because it was college b-ball season when I'm watching those channels constantly.
> 
> 
> Even more importantly though, I had the TV on dynamic (brightest setting-I didn't know any better) the whole time and would leave ESPN on after the sports that I was watching ended.
> 
> 
> Despite what you read about burn-in not being a problem in modern plasmas, it very much is a problem, especially during the initial 200 hours of viewing.
> 
> 
> I was lulled into a false sense of security by things I'd read on CNET etc., didn't do enough research at sites like this one and ultimately got burned a bit.
> 
> 
> Unless somebody here can tell me the magic words to get Samsung to replace the set, I'll probably end up selling it for a huge discount, biting the bullet, and getting a much more expensive LCD (either Sony XBR 929 or Samsung UND8000).
> 
> 
> Both those sets deliver lower picture quality based on what I've seen, but I'll be able to watch sports as much as I want without having to stress about abusing the TV with fixed images. Oh well, live and learn . . .


----------



## varmintx

I was being careful (not leaving the image on for more than 15 minutes at a time, not using Vivid) and still got burn-in. I'll give those new videos a try, but after several months, I don't think I'm ever going to be able to get rid of that Forza speedometer in my lower right-hand corner.


----------



## Tom Riddle

I'm a recent plasma adopter coming from only owning LCD's and DLP's. I was very skeptical due to IR and Burn-in, but after buying a new LED/LCD and still not being quite satisfied with the picture, I decided I had to give Plasma a shot. In February I purchased the Panasonic 65VT30 and can honestly say it has the best picture of any TV I've ever seen. In regard to IR it definitely can have its issues, but it also seems to be very much an attribute of how you treat it. From what I've read, over time the TV will become less susceptible to IR and thus far this seems to be holding true for me. I ran it at low contrast for the first 500 hours and ran break-in slides (not continuous) as well. If I get persistent IR then I put it on content without logos and put it in Vivid Mode (aka Torch Mode) and it comes right out within about an hour. I now have upped the contrast a bit, but I'm still very careful. I can honestly say that the picture quality is worth all of it!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle* /forum/post/21985060
> 
> 
> I'm a recent plasma adopter coming from only owning LCD's and DLP's. I was very skeptical due to IR and Burn-in, but after buying a new LED/LCD and still not being quite satisfied with the picture, I decided I had to give Plasma a shot. In February I purchased the Panasonic 65VT30 and can honestly say it has the best picture of any TV I've ever seen. In regard to IR it definitely can have its issues, but it also seems to be very much an attribute of how you treat it. From what I've read, over time the TV will become less susceptible to IR and thus far this seems to be holding true for me. I ran it at low contrast for the first 500 hours and ran break-in slides (not continuous) as well. If I get persistent IR then I put it on content without logos and put it in Vivid Mode (aka Torch Mode) and it comes right out within about an hour. I now have upped the contrast a bit, but I'm still very careful. I can honestly say that the picture quality is worth all of it!



Well Said ! And yes my tv is around a year old and i view 6 hours of HD broadcast in it daily.Initially i did get IR even while setting the menu screen.

But now i watch tv programs with logos & stickers,And also 16:9 content BD movies with black bars on top and bottom.I do not get any IR at all.And i have now increased all the settings to my liking.And the picture quality is amazing and in a couple of years i wish to buy another plasma of 65 inches from the vt line up.my present tv is panasonic 50 inches v20 series and its a non 3D model.

And by the way i use it mainly for watching BD movies and Soaps from DTH-HD broadcast.And never used it for gaming !


Love,

kris.


----------



## HAmmer32261

I just ordered a 2012 Panasonic 55in VT50 its my first plasma, are the newer displays still susceptible to IR and burn in?? and should i have it professionally calibrated??


----------



## Tom Riddle

Hammer, congratulations on your purchase! Yes, all plasmas are susceptible to IR and burn-in. However, true burn-in isn't likely to happen unless you really abuse your set. What you need to do is check out this thread for break-in slides or you can go to the official Panasonic VT, GT and ST30 forum and look for the mini FAQ which contains the slides. Just follow the directions, run for 200 hours. I ran mine, not continuous for a few hours each night after viewing and I lowered my contrast significantly (down to 40). I put about 500 hours on the set then put it in thx mode and I have no IR. THX mode is still lower contrast than my preferred mode of custom but if I put in custom I get slight IR. I expect to keep gradually increasing until I get to my preferred settings. Everything with these sets is like taking baby steps, but the picture is well worth it and if you treat it correctly from the onset, you won't have to worry in the future.


----------



## caunyd

I'm doing the 150 hours panel aging break in with a Pioneer 6020 converted to an E-lite (through the board swap). I'm using a usb flash thumb drive, and following the instructions.


basically the instructions are to set up the color slides as a slideshow. However, there is a 10 second black out/off period before each new slide shows up. And sometimes it makes a noise, as if it's turning on for the first time (almost like a pop/clicking sound), when it flashes from black out/off to the color slide. I know that this sound isn't abnormal. Or at least I don't think it is. But is it good for the TV flash from the black out/off position and then to a color slide over and over for 150 hours?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *caunyd* /forum/post/21995134
> 
> 
> I'm doing the 150 hours panel aging break in with a Pioneer 6020 converted to an E-lite (through the board swap). I'm using a usb flash thumb drive, and following the instructions.
> 
> 
> basically the instructions are to set up the color slides as a slideshow. However, there is a 10 second black out/off period before each new slide shows up. And sometimes it makes a noise, as if it's turning on for the first time (almost like a pop/clicking sound), when it flashes from black out/off to the color slide. I know that this sound isn't abnormal. Or at least I don't think it is. But is it good for the TV flash from the black out/off position and then to a color slide over and over for 150 hours?



Hi,

I request you to use your tv as a regular crt tv.by viewing your tv programs & HD content from ps3 or bd player.And pioneer has the best plasma panel ever built till this day.And any colour slides running in the panel should be continuous,So if the usb port inputs does not give a continuous sequence of colours.then i recommend you to avoid that method.Better still burn a dvd or bd with colour slides show and run it on loop.But certainly your dvd player is bound to wear doing so or at times even hang..

Pioneer plasmas are bullet proof kind of built,so don't worry.

And the pop/clicking sound is due to tv going from full energy use up mode to economy mode(i.e when there is no picture the circuits switch down power to save energy)going to this mode often is not advisable.If you connect a watts meter to your tv you will understand what its doing.

Pioneer has stopped manufacturing such great panels,So use your tv wisely.To get many years of happy HD viewing.


Love,

kris.


----------



## berkerlog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle* /forum/post/21990274
> 
> 
> Hammer, congratulations on your purchase! Yes, all plasmas are susceptible to IR and burn-in. However, true burn-in isn't likely to happen unless you really abuse your set. What you need to do is check out this thread for break-in slides or you can go to the official Panasonic VT, GT and ST30 forum and look for the mini FAQ which contains the slides. Just follow the directions, run for 200 hours. I ran mine, not continuous for a few hours each night after viewing and I lowered my contrast significantly (down to 40). I put about 500 hours on the set then put it in thx mode and I have no IR. THX mode is still lower contrast than my preferred mode of custom but if I put in custom I get slight IR. I expect to keep gradually increasing until I get to my preferred settings. Everything with these sets is like taking baby steps, but the picture is well worth it and if you treat it correctly from the onset, you won't have to worry in the future.



What is to "really abuse" ? Let's say I watch 5 hours of tv every day and 4 hours of this is the same channel every day. Would this be abusing???










Also would anyone comment on the 50 series Panasonics about the succeptibility to IR?


----------



## Jake Ironshirt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoyd* /forum/post/21945172
> 
> 
> ok thanks, turn up contrast and cell/panel brightness (if you have those) to max while running it and let me know if 7 hours has any effect at all.



Tried it out, my IR is still there. I'll keep searching.

Thanks


----------



## caunyd

Kris thanks for the advice and the insight in your post. It was very informative.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berkerlog* /forum/post/21997670
> 
> 
> What is to "really abuse" ? Let's say I watch 5 hours of tv every day and 4 hours of this is the same channel every day. Would this be abusing???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also would anyone comment on the 50 series Panasonics about the succeptibility to IR?



Abuse would be characterized more by leaving static images on the screen for extended periods of time or running the tv in vivid (aka torch mode) with static images. All in all, burn-in is not all that big of an issue in new sets as compared to older models. Most people have what is characterized as persistent IR but will lessen over time. Regardless of what plasma display you buy, it will be susceptible to IR. You will have to treat it with care for the first several hundred hours to make sure the phosphors burn evenly. My set's susceptibility to IR is decreasing as it ages. Don't let this forum scare you. I'm sure there are thousands of plasma owners out there that follow none of these rules of thumb and have no visible side effects. The picture my plasma produces versus my top of the line led in my bedroom makes it all worth it. Just use common sense with your set and you should have no problems.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *caunyd* /forum/post/22000545
> 
> 
> Kris thanks for the advice and the insight in your post. It was very informative.



you are welcome.


love,

kris.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berkerlog* /forum/post/21997670
> 
> 
> What is to "really abuse" ? Let's say I watch 5 hours of tv every day and 4 hours of this is the same channel every day. Would this be abusing???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also would anyone comment on the 50 series Panasonics about the susceptibility to IR?



Hi,

If you watch the same channel with bright or static logo is bound to leave IR.And how stubborn that IR going to be depends on how many hours you have put in or how old is your plasma.i.e New tv with less than 100hrs gets IR very easily even by watching static content for 30 or 40 minutes.

But when you have put 500hrs or about a year of regular usage.IR is either mild or does not form at all.With my Panasonic that is how it is...

And feed back on VT50 series is too new to the market to anyone comment on it.4 to 6 months from now i think folks here would be able to say how well built it is in respect to IR.


love,

kris.


----------



## Damiene

Just wanted to add here, I have watched my new 55GT50 (had it for just over a week now) on single channels with logos or crawl bars for up to several hours at a time with out seeing any bit of IR at all. I'm using it in Custom picture mode with contrast set to about 75 (at work so not sure of the exact value off the top of my head). I was pretty cautious with it the first few days, gradually increasing the time on such channels and checking for IR afterwards, but I'm pretty comfortable with feeling like it would take a fairly extended session on such content to cause any kind of major issue at this point.


----------



## jwcole1224

I'm considering the VT50, it would be my first plasma.


My wife needs to have sub-titles on 100% of the time.

I have my cable box setup to display the text only, not text in a black box.

I am concerned about IR/Burn-in where the text is displayed, need I be?


----------



## zoyd

Over a long period of time, yes, the area where the text is displayed will probably show some darkening on any plasma, but it's very hard to predict how long it would take before you noticed it.


----------



## Heinouser

So I'm sure this has been answered thousand times before:


How much of an impact does letter/pillarboxing have on a plasma? I just got a Panasonic GT50, and after only a couple hours of, granted irresponsible, pillarbox use, there are brighter bars on the sides. These have failed to disappear completely after several days of full-screen use, and I'm wondering how much of this I'm going to have to deal with in the long term.


I'm very particular about both picture quality and aspect ratio, so if this is just something that plasmas do, then it'll have to go back. I watch way too much pillar and letterboxes content to put up with bright sides, and I don't want to have to babysit the thing to make sure it ages gracefully.


I'm giving it a couple more weeks inside the return policy, but I'd like to hear what other folks experience is. Thanks.


----------



## Taillefer

I'm in the same boat as Heinhouser. I've got a new Samsung PND647000 and we've been watching 3-4 hours a day of 4:3 content. Now I have brighter bars on the sides. I new about burn in with static images and I was careful not to leave the set parked on channels with logos in the corner etc. However, I did not realize that watching letterbox content would have the same effect. Is here a way to recover from this? Will it get better over time? I saw on this forum again and again, that it was very hard to burn in modern plasmas, and I actually thought I was being careful. Did not read the fine print in the user's manual, and am now kicking myself in the ass. Any hope that this will clear up some?


Thanks,



T.


----------



## brody76




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Taillefer* /forum/post/22018346
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat as Heinhouser. I've got a new Samsung PND647000 and we've been watching 3-4 hours a day of 4:3 content. Now I have brighter bars on the sides. I new about burn in with static images and I was careful not to leave the set parked on channels with logos in the corner etc. However, I did not realize that watching letterbox content would have the same effect. Is here a way to recover from this? Will it get better over time? I saw on this forum again and again, that it was very hard to burn in modern plasmas, and I actually thought I was being careful. Did not read the fine print in the user's manual, and am now kicking myself in the ass. Any hope that this will clear up some?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> T.



Run a white image for a few hours, it should disappear.

And avoid black bars (either on sides or top/bottom ones) for the first 200 hours.


----------



## Jammers10

I have a new 50" Plasma and i haven't hit the 100 hours break in period yet. Should i wait until it's over 100 hours before i start watching DVD's?


----------



## brody76




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jammers10* /forum/post/22018708
> 
> 
> I have a new 50" Plasma and i haven't hit the 100 hours break in period yet. Should i wait until it's over 100 hours before i start watching DVD's?



No, of course not.

Just make sure your brightness is somewhere near 50 and your contrast no more than 80.


Watch some DVD's from time to time, but not only.

Try to fill the screen with content as much as you can during the first 200 hours.


----------



## mosh11

hi all,


i have Samsung PS51D450 plasma screen , i leave it over night to run break-in slides for about 8 hours , but the problem is that this tv and i think samsung in general displays a black screen for about half a second between slides(the transition) , when i woke up and viewed channels from the satellite box through AV , i noticed a slightly transparent black screen flashing every 3 seconds , but after switching to usb and back again , it disappeared , could this be the problem of black screens between slides ?


----------



## idemedosumom

Hello guys,


I recently bought a plasma tv (panasonic 42st50 EU model), this is my first plasma tv and I have question regarding ir/burn in, so here goes:


I've had the tv for about 20 days now. I didn't run any break-in slides. I wasn't really sure what image retention meant until I watched a whole football match, and after changing the channel I noticed a ghost-like image of the sports channel logo. I wasn't worried since it disappeared after watching a movie.


The problem started when my brother connected his ps3 to the tv and played fifa online for 3-4 hours (Image mode was set to gaming, default), and now the outline of the football pitch map is visible, but only when displaying white or other light colors, it's not visible when displaying black or dark colors.


I've watched a movie and it didn't clear up. I let my tv run a movie all night long in loop mode, but the pitch outline is still visible. How do I tell if this is burn in (permanent) or just a more persistent case of image retention?


What do you guys suggest I do to clear it up?

Any suggestions on how to avoid it in the future?


Thanks


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idemedosumom* /forum/post/22026907
> 
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> I recently bought a plasma tv (panasonic 42st50 EU model), this is my first plasma tv and I have question regarding ir/burn in, so here goes:
> 
> 
> I've had the tv for about 20 days now. I didn't run any break-in slides. I wasn't really sure what image retention meant until I watched a whole football match, and after changing the channel I noticed a ghost-like image of the sports channel logo. I wasn't worried since it disappeared after watching a movie.
> 
> 
> The problem started when my brother connected his ps3 to the tv and played fifa online for 3-4 hours (Image mode was set to gaming, default), and now the outline of the football pitch map is visible, but only when displaying white or other light colors, it's not visible when displaying black or dark colors.
> 
> 
> I've watched a movie and it didn't clear up. I let my tv run a movie all night long in loop mode, but the pitch outline is still visible. How do I tell if this is burn in (permanent) or just a more persistent case of image retention?
> 
> 
> What do you guys suggest I do to clear it up?
> 
> Any suggestions on how to avoid it in the future?
> 
> 
> Thanks



It will go away but it will take some time. Since it isn't visible with normal viewing it shouldn't be a problem. You will always get a little image retention but it is usually not visible with normal viewing. When your TV is used for gaming dial back the brightness and contrast to reduce the severity of potential IR. I would recommend avoiding the gaming mode altogether, it does nothing to improve game play anyway. It's just another picture setting.


----------



## 80sGuy

It's called "Heavy Image Retention" and it will take a good while for it to go away. Same thing happened with my TC-P42G25 (not from playing games) and it took 2-3 months! Just lower your brightness and contrast to 50% and watch TV regularly and soon you know it, it'll disappear. Mine's gone!


The key is to: fill the screen full with contents and try to avoid static logos and games on the first 200 hours.


----------



## idemedosumom

Thanks for your reply guys,


what do you think about the black & white scrolling bars? Perhaps they could speed things up a bit?


----------



## jumpman23j

Guys, I bought a display Samsung p51d450. So do I still need to break it in considering it's probably been running 12 hours a day for some time now? Thanks.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jumpman23j* /forum/post/22029253
> 
> 
> Guys, I bought a display Samsung p51d450. So do I still need to break it in considering it's probably been running 12 hours a day for some time now? Thanks.



No, break-in is not necessary. You won't gain any benefit from doing it.


----------



## jumpman23j




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/22030249
> 
> 
> No, break-in is not necessary. You won't gain any benefit from doing it.



Cool, thanks!


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idemedosumom* /forum/post/22026907
> 
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> I recently bought a plasma tv (panasonic 42st50 EU model), this is my first plasma tv and I have question regarding ir/burn in, so here goes:
> 
> 
> I've had the tv for about 20 days now. I didn't run any break-in slides. I wasn't really sure what image retention meant until I watched a whole football match, and after changing the channel I noticed a ghost-like image of the sports channel logo. I wasn't worried since it disappeared after watching a movie.
> 
> 
> The problem started when my brother connected his ps3 to the tv and played fifa online for 3-4 hours (Image mode was set to gaming, default), and now the outline of the football pitch map is visible, but only when displaying white or other light colors, it's not visible when displaying black or dark colors.
> 
> 
> I've watched a movie and it didn't clear up. I let my tv run a movie all night long in loop mode, but the pitch outline is still visible. How do I tell if this is burn in (permanent) or just a more persistent case of image retention?
> 
> 
> What do you guys suggest I do to clear it up?
> 
> Any suggestions on how to avoid it in the future?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Like others have said this will go away with time. Out of curiosity, what settings did you use while running in loop mood? If I get persistent image retention, I put my set in torch mode and play a full screen movie and the image is gone.


----------



## BBDuke

Hey guys, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on my first plasma tv this weekend, the Panasonic GT50. I've read through the thread and got some good insights on what to expect with the new tv, but I am still a little confused with the break-in and the necessary steps to take. Can someone kindly simplify all this for me?


-What settings do I need to put the plasma on and for how long?

-Can I put it in THX mode out of the gate?

-What are some of the things to look out for to prevent burn-in?

- Overall, what are the benefits of breaking in the tv?


Thanks for your time and help!


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BBDuke* /forum/post/22036197
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on my first plasma tv this weekend, the Panasonic GT50. I've read through the thread and got some good insights on what to expect with the new tv, but I am still a little confused with the break-in and the necessary steps to take. Can someone kindly simplify all this for me?
> 
> 
> -What settings do I need to put the plasma on and for how long?
> 
> -Can I put it in THX mode out of the gate?
> 
> -What are some of the things to look out for to prevent burn-in?
> 
> - Overall, what are the benefits of breaking in the tv?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time and help!



Hi,

For the first 200hrs or so,There will be mild IR now and then but nothing to worry,it will disappear as you are watching new or different content.And its advisable to keep brightness,contrast,Colour,Sharpness below the 50 mark.

But if it makes your tv watching experience difficult to the eyes just increase to a extent where the picture quality is acceptable !

And for 'BD content',If your tv and your BD player if its of the same brand,like panasonic has the viera link,the tv would most likely configure to cinema mode,and if you like the quality you can watch in that settings itself.But try not to watch 16:9 or 4:3 content with black bars.In those cases just switch to zoom1 mode or 4:3 full screen setting mode for the first 500hrs or about a year.Remember one thing is that when watching BD content or HD content through media player,you can go to coustom settings and set colour,brightness,contrast,sharpness to your liking,just do not pause the content for more than a minute,or run the tv with black bars for the first 200hrs.

And to run colour slides for the first 100hrs is recommended only for those who want to get their tv calibrated.And contrast,brightness,color & sharpness for running slide show,here also set it to levels where the colours do not bleed or spillover.Just set it using your eyes.But remember that the tv should not be left unattended for hours together.Since due to any glitch if the tv remains in a particular colour it is also not good for the panel.

Personally,i do not recommended color slides,but if you intended doing so,these is no harm either.And if you are watching tv programs with logos and news stickers and sports channel with scoreboard,then try to keep changing channels for every 30 to 45 minutes regularly for the first 200hrs or 6months of regular tv usage.

And you asked about THX mode,yes you can use it for BD content & also for HD content from media players.But i will not recomend it for watching HD TV programs with logos.

And never treat a plasma as a LCD tv or CRT monitor.you will get IR,sometimes stubborn IR.

Use it wisely and in return get years of great viewing with terrific picture quality....










Here's a useful video link !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiuL8...eature=related 


Love,

kris.


----------



## brody76

Just put some slides in torch mode a few hours per day and you'll be done with the break-in period in about 2 months. It's not worth the hassle of watching distorted movies and having to zap every 15 seconds for 6 months to a year.


The slides have been working very well, and a lot members here have used it on various plasmas without an issue. Just keep an eye on it in case it goes back to the menu or freeze.


----------



## idemedosumom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle* /forum/post/22035730
> 
> 
> Like others have said this will go away with time. Out of curiosity, what settings did you use while running in loop mood? If I get persistent image retention, I put my set in torch mode and play a full screen movie and the image is gone.



I cranked both contrast and brightness to max levels, so torch mode I guess. I already let it run for two nights (not continuously, my wife turned the tv off during the day), but IR is still visible with white or basically any light one colored backgrounds.


Its fairly impossible to see it when watching regular tv and movies, but still, it bugs me. I sure hope it will clear up with time...

http://www.minifridge24.com/


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idemedosumom* /forum/post/22038558
> 
> 
> I cranked both contrast and brightness to max levels, so torch mode I guess. I already let it run for two nights (not continuously, my wife turned the tv off during the day), but IR is still visible with white or basically any light one colored backgrounds.
> 
> 
> Its fairly impossible to see it when watching regular tv and movies, but still, it bugs me. I sure hope it will clear up with time...



You mentioned mild IR is still visible,is it channel logo or from gaming ? If you keep feeding your plasma with same content that created that IR in the first place.I doubt your IR will disappear completely.

And running slides to remove IR is a mere waste of time.Just watch HD TV without channel logos,leave the tv running with such content for 6 to 8 hours a day at a stretch.In 3 to 4 days that IR will disappear.

And watch action movies and content with fast moving frames and where colours splash and images so lively.Will help your tv clean up quite fast.


Never leave you plasma tv unattended especially during night time.If you are going to bed,switch it off.In the name of cleaning the IR don't waste Elec power.Use your tv to view programs of your choice and taste.If it has logos just switch to zoom one mode or change the channel every 30 minutes or so.Since most of the episodes & soaps run for duration of 30 minutes with lots of adds inbetween.


love,

kris.


----------



## idemedosumom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/22039997
> 
> 
> You mentioned mild IR is still visible,is it channel logo or from gaming ? If you keep feeding your plasma with same content that created that IR in the first place.I doubt your IR will disappear completely.
> 
> And running slides to remove IR is a mere waste of time.Just watch HD TV without channel logos,leave the tv running with such content for 6 to 8 hours a day at a stretch.In 3 to 4 days that IR will disappear.
> 
> And watch action movies and content with fast moving frames and where colours splash and images so lively.Will help your tv clean up quite fast.
> 
> 
> Never leave you plasma tv unattended especially during night time.If you are going to bed,switch it off.In the name of cleaning the IR don't waste Elec power.Use your tv to view programs of your choice and taste.If it has logos just switch to zoom one mode or change the channel every 30 minutes or so.Since most of the episodes & soaps run for duration of 30 minutes with lots of adds inbetween.
> 
> 
> love,
> 
> kris.



The ir is from gaming, my brother played fifa for a few days, maybe 2-3 hours each time, but since I noticed the severity of the ir there has been no gaming. I think I'll try playing avatar in 1080p, that ought to be colorful enough! I'm just afraid that this ir doesn't turn out to be permanent burn in. That would mean I screwed my first plasma up in less than a month










Thanks for your reply kris, love right back at ya,


harun


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idemedosumom* /forum/post/22040194
> 
> 
> The ir is from gaming, my brother played fifa for a few days, maybe 2-3 hours each time, but since I noticed the severity of the ir there has been no gaming. I think I'll try playing avatar in 1080p, that ought to be colorful enough! I'm just afraid that this ir doesn't turn out to be permanent burn in. That would mean "I screwed my first plasma up in less than a month"
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply kris, love right back at ya,
> 
> 
> harun



Hi,

If your tv is just one month old and you have IR,it seems to be perfectly normal.you want believe if i say i used to get menu screen of the Tv as IR for the first 150 to 200hrs.And me and my wife used our tv for about 6 to 8 hours a day viewing DTH-HD content,like episodes,Drama,Soaps,etc.Since most of the channels did have logos,we used the zoom one mode.Since the content was HD there was not much of fall in picture clarity !So we did not get any Stubborn IR.And Even while watching BD content,I used to use the zoom one mode if the content had black bars at the top & bottom of the screen.

Now our tv is about one year old and i view content with channel logos and news stickers and sports scoreboard & 16:9 BD content with black bars,result i do get very mild IR which vanishes on viewing other contents say in 2 to 5 minutes time.

So for one year use it gently as i have said,then you need not pamper it anymore.But one thing is sure is that if you keep watching the same content with logos 24x7 for a year.Then there are chances of getting stubborn IR is totally inevitable in plasma tv's.


Love,

kris.


----------



## Jawzey

I'm on the verge of buying the 42UT50. But this burn in stuff is kinda scaring me more than I expected it to. I want to use the TV for gaming and watching sports, and I know for a fact that there are static logo's on the channels I watch for sports and in my games. Can someone help me out here and explain to me how IR is in 2012? Thanks


----------



## emperor887

Hi everyone,


i just bought a new Panasonic plasma 50" TV that i should be getting tomorrow.

I've been reading a lot about the break in DVD and other methods, so here's what i have in mind, i would really like to hear what you guys think.


1) setting my contrast/brightness = 50%.

2) turning the viewing mode to full or zoom to avoid black bars.

3) putting on Seinfeld series and let it run from season 1 to 9 which is about 60 hours and rewind some seasons to get the 100 hours mark.

p.s: Seinfeld has no logos whatsoever.



Should i do that or use the break in DVD? Also, are there any other settings to adjust for the break in period such as sharpness,color and pixel orbiter or just contrast and brightness?



thanks a lot


----------



## eagle_2

I just don't understand how so many people say gaimg is okay on plasmas. Just over the weekend a Best Buy employee told me that the new plasmas are fantastic for gaming, yet so many people seem to have a big problem with image retention and gaming. If even tv logos are an issue, which is rather unavoidable if you or your loved one tends to watch a lot of network shows, then I just don't see how gaming can be safe in any way, shape or form. I'd love to be able to game on my new E8000 but honestly I'd be scared to death. I'm worried enough as it is about letterboxing and logos, but I'm not about to stop watching all our regular programming just because we own a plasma. But gaming sounds scary. Lag might be great but image retention sounds like too much of a risk for me to take.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22057778
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how so many people say gaimg is okay on plasmas. Just over the weekend a Best Buy employee told me that the new plasmas are fantastic for gaming, yet so many people seem to have a big problem with image retention and gaming. If even tv logos are an issue, which is rather unavoidable if you or your loved one tends to watch a lot of network shows, then I just don't see how gaming can be safe in any way, shape or form. I'd love to be able to game on my new E8000 but honestly I'd be scared to death. I'm worried enough as it is about letterboxing and logos, but I'm not about to stop watching all our regular programming just because we own a plasma. But gaming sounds scary. Lag might be great but image retention sounds like too much of a risk for me to take.



Gaming is not okay on a new plasma if their are HUD's that will be present all the time. Gaming on a plasma that has been aged is perfectly okay. IR lessens as the phosphors age and the possibility of burn-in is drastically reduced. If you follow the break-in slides and continue to monitor your IR you will know when it is okay to start pushing your tv.


----------



## brody76




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle* /forum/post/22057872
> 
> 
> Gaming is not okay on a new plasma if their are HUD's that will be present all the time. Gaming on a plasma that has been aged is perfectly okay. IR lessens as the phosphors age and the possibility of burn-in is drastically reduced. If you follow the break-in slides and continue to monitor your IR you will know when it is okay to start pushing your tv.



That has been aged, I agree.


But some people seem to buy plasma for computer and video game usage exclusively.


That's looking for trouble.


Then they're gonna run on the internet, find the first "AV" forum, and post about how horrible plasma TV's are, hence the bad reputation of plasmas.


Nimrods.


----------



## eagle_2

To be honest I'm surprised these plasmas come with a built-in browser. That just seems likely to promote bad behavior. Something else the Best Buy salesman promoted to me when I was looking at the E8000 over the weekend.


I think sales people like that really don't help the situation with image retention confusion. If I didn't know any better about plasmas (like many who aren't aware of this forum or image retention in general) I would have bought the set thinking I could just come home and start surfing with the built-in browser and fire up my gaming, unaware of the precautions I should take.


I don't think people can be blamed for not understanding these things up front, since so many times the sales people add to the misinformation. True, there's lots of information on this online, but for many who are just walking in off the street and trusting the salespeople, there's always a chance they will be misinformed, especially from some of the big-box retailers who just don't know these things.


Not every customer is a tech-head - many, if not most, just want a nice looking tv, and think the sales people are actually the ones to talk to about any questions they might have. That doesn't make them nimrods necessarily - just uninformed for trusting the salespeople, who are often the real nimrods.


Neither my girlfriend nor her folks are nimrods, but neither had any concept of what image retention was or that plasmas could get it, because why would they know if they never owned one?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22057778
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how so many people say gaimg is okay on plasmas. Just over the weekend a Best Buy employee told me that the new plasmas are fantastic for gaming, yet so many people seem to have a big problem with image retention and gaming. If even tv logos are an issue, which is rather unavoidable if you or your loved one tends to watch a lot of network shows, then I just don't see how gaming can be safe in any way, shape or form. I'd love to be able to game on my new E8000 but honestly I'd be scared to death. I'm worried enough as it is about letterboxing and logos, but I'm not about to stop watching all our regular programming just because we own a plasma. But gaming sounds scary. Lag might be great but image retention sounds like too much of a risk for me to take.



I game on my Pioneer Plasma, and I play the same game for 8 hours + which has a bright red health bar and a bright blue mana bar, plus the mini-map, etc. No issues or problems, no IR, incredible set.


----------



## eagle_2

No kidding? That sounds promising then. Maybe after I have a few hundred hours on the set I'll be okay for gaming then. Thanks for your input.


----------



## JohnnytheSkin

And yet I played Mass Effect 3 with a HUD that goes away during cutscenes and exploration (at least half of the game if not more) and I have burn-in from the weapon windows despite only playing two hours max at a time, with plenty of other content and slides in between, all this after putting over 1000 hours on my VT30 and have used DNice's settings exclusively and of course have the orbiter on.


It's a problem, it's a bunch of BS, and I'm ****ing livid over this crap when I babied my new plasma and yet still have this crap occur.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JohnnytheSkin* /forum/post/22060221
> 
> 
> And yet I played Mass Effect 3 with a HUD that goes away during cutscenes and exploration (at least half of the game if not more) and I have burn-in from the weapon windows despite only playing two hours max at a time, with plenty of other content and slides in between, all this after putting over 1000 hours on my VT30 and have used DNice's settings exclusively and of course have the orbiter on.
> 
> 
> It's a problem, it's a bunch of BS, and I'm ****ing livid over this crap when I babied my new plasma and yet still have this crap occur.



Which Plasma did you purchase? Did it come with any kind or orbiter?


----------



## eagle_2

I really don't think imo the pixel orbiters do much good. Randy has said they aren't very effective, and if you think about it, it makes sense that they wouldn't do much, since it just shifts things around a few pixels - most logos, tickers, weapons, HUDs, scores, etc take up more pixels than can be affected by shifting. Personally I think it's a gimmick to make it look like they're addressing the issue of image retention.


Channel logos take up a fairly large little corner of the screen in some cases - far more than a pixel orbiter can shift.


----------



## tfoltz

Gimmick or not, I enjoy the orbiter. I game heavily on a 50px80u and 65st30 and haven't had severe image retention on either. I could just have good luck, but I won't take my chances.


----------



## JohnnytheSkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/22060227
> 
> 
> Which Plasma did you purchase? Did it come with any kind or orbiter?



I bought a 65" Panasonic VT30 last fall, did the slides for 150 hours or so, varied my content, have the orbiter on, and I still have burn-in from Mass Effect. It's ********, as I said, I played max two hours at a time and the game is varied with the windows only composing less than half the play time.


----------



## Iron Condor

The key to avoiding IR is to not use a high contrast/brightness setting when you have your TV doing grunt work. When watching a movie or enjoying certain games, sure go all out, but when you plan on having a marathon online gaming session try turning down the intensity. You don't need the topmost of visuals when you are having your latest Call of Duty kill session if the thought of IR really bothers you.


Not only will it take much longer for IR to happen, watching a movie with your normal and more intense settings will wipe it faster.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JohnnytheSkin* /forum/post/22061996
> 
> 
> I bought a 65" Panasonic VT30 last fall, did the slides for 150 hours or so, varied my content, have the orbiter on, and I still have burn-in from Mass Effect. It's ********, as I said, I played max two hours at a time and the game is varied with the windows only composing less than half the play time.



How bad is your burn-in? Visible on all content, or only on light color slides?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22060836
> 
> 
> I really don't think imo the pixel orbiters do much good. Randy has said they aren't very effective, and if you think about it, it makes sense that they wouldn't do much, since it just shifts things around a few pixels - most logos, tickers, weapons, HUDs, scores, etc take up more pixels than can be affected by shifting. Personally I think it's a gimmick to make it look like they're addressing the issue of image retention.
> 
> 
> Channel logos take up a fairly large little corner of the screen in some cases - far more than a pixel orbiter can shift.



Maybe but I know that the Pioneer I have has an orbiter and I have never had IR even with 8+ hours of gaming sessions with the same game. Seems odd that I have an orbiter and no problems and others don't have one and they have problems.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JohnnytheSkin* /forum/post/22061996
> 
> 
> I bought a 65" Panasonic VT30 last fall, did the slides for 150 hours or so, varied my content, have the orbiter on, and I still have burn-in from Mass Effect. It's ********, as I said, I played max two hours at a time and the game is varied with the windows only composing less than half the play time.



I hear a lot of people with Panasonic complain of IR, not sure why, those are pretty darn good sets.


----------



## JohnnytheSkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle* /forum/post/22062152
> 
> 
> How bad is your burn-in? Visible on all content, or only on light color slides?



Light color slides (green predominantly) and when shows or movies transition to a light gray (think the cubicles walls on The Office).


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JohnnytheSkin* /forum/post/22061996
> 
> 
> I bought a 65" Panasonic VT30 last fall, did the slides for 150 hours or so, varied my content, have the orbiter on, and I still have burn-in from Mass Effect. It's ********, as I said, I played max two hours at a time and the game is varied with the windows only composing less than half the play time.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JohnnytheSkin* /forum/post/22062906
> 
> 
> Light color slides (green predominantly) and when shows or movies transition to a light gray (think the cubicles walls on The Office).



I see. What have you done to the set to get rid of the IR? I too have a 65VT30 and IR was rampant when I first got it, even had the menu screen at the top left for a month, but as it has aged IR dissapers within minutes and all former traces are gone. I did not do a continuous break-in, but ran the slides in the afternoon for a few hours at a time and had my contrast for normal viewing below 50% for the first 500 hours. I'm over 1000 hours now and have no issues at regualar settings. For persistent IR I put the set on a loop on torch mode with a fullscreen movie playing. Works every time.


----------



## JohnnytheSkin

My attempts to get rid of it have been running the slides continuously in Vivid, running the snow pattern from Disney's WOW Blu-ray, running a seizure inducing looping video on Vivid that flashes slides rapidly (posted here in the forum somewhere), and then our regular viewing on HBO, which doesn't have logos, along with regular movies.


----------



## eagle_2

My understanding of the pixel orbiters is that you can't enable it unless you use 16:9 mode,which applies some overscan to give the pixel orbiter enough room to shift the image around a bit.


I wouldn't want to apply overscan to my blu-rays, as it crops the image a tad bit. How is it with games? Wouldn't the 16:9 mode crop into scores/HUD elements a bit?


----------



## Aliens

This is a real pisser. Custom mode with Contrast initially set to 75, then after 2 weeks reduced to 50.


I've had my Panny 65GT30 since the first of February. The IR (I'm hoping that is all this is and not burn-in) that you see (bar just below the top of the screen and above the bottom) is from Morning Joe on MSNBC. I watch from 6-7:15 M-F, and the longest time before a commercial break is 20 minutes. That I would get IR so easily when there are lots of commercial breaks is really puzzling. Hours on end of continual bars I can see, but not when the image is often changed. And this is an off-white bar, not a bright, bleached white bar. I have an '03 Panny plasma that has never given me an IR problem and I did everything, except play games, to that thing from the very beginning. So far I've run the Disney WOW for 4 consecutive hours and no change. I'll run it all day tomorrow to see if I can get rid of it. From what I've read I understand it can take some time to remove this. I hope.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22066147
> 
> 
> My understanding of the pixel orbiters is that you can't enable it unless you use 16:9 mode,which applies some overscan to give the pixel orbiter enough room to shift the image around a bit.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to apply overscan to my blu-rays, as it crops the image a tad bit. How is it with games? Wouldn't the 16:9 mode crop into scores/HUD elements a bit?



I know on Samsung's if you have overscan disabled, it also disables the orbiter, but on my UT50, the orbiter is not greyed out in the menu's, which leads me to believe it's still on.


I have a touch of IR from playing CoD on the bottom right of my screen. It's slowly fading away by just watching a lot of 1.78:1 BD's and running full screen movies on Vivid when I'm at home not watching it, but it's my own fault. I should have known better having owned a PX80U that got IR pretty easily at the beginning of its lifespan, but now I would have to try *really* hard to get IR on that thing. It just takes time for the panel to age so that IR becomes less and less of a problem. The PQ/Size/Cost tradeoff is worth every penny though.


----------



## eagle_2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aliens* /forum/post/22070306
> 
> 
> This is a real pisser. Custom mode with Contrast initially set to 75, then after 2 weeks reduced to 50.
> 
> 
> I’ve had my Panny 65”GT30 since the first of February. The IR (I’m hoping that is all this is and not burn-in) that you see (bar just below the top of the screen and above the bottom) is from Morning Joe on MSNBC. I watch from 6-7:15 M-F, and the longest time before a commercial break is 20 minutes. That I would get IR so easily when there are lots of commercial breaks is really puzzling. Hours on end of continual bars I can see, but not when the image is often changed. And this is an off-white bar, not a bright, bleached white bar. I have an ’03 Panny plasma that has never given me an IR problem and I did everything, except play games, to that thing from the very beginning. So far I’ve run the Disney WOW for 4 consecutive hours and no change. I’ll run it all day tomorrow to see if I can get rid of it. From what I’ve read I understand it can take some time to remove this. I hope.



This is my biggest fear - from what you described, it doesn't sound like what I would consider abuse by any stretch, and the contrast is set far lower than CNET usually has you set it. I'm really starting to think that these newer generation plasmas are very prone to image retention. Granted, it may be temporary, but it still seems far too easy to get IR when all it takes is 1 hour a day with bars visible, and commercial breaks in-between as well.


It's a shame we have to choose from lousy over-priced LCDs but then we can do whatever we want with them or get a plasma with far better picture for far less money but have to treat it like a baby and always worry what we're watching. Not a great choice. I went with plasma but I"m always worried.


I never had those worries with CRT.


----------



## 80sGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aliens* /forum/post/22070306
> 
> 
> This is a real pisser. Custom mode with Contrast initially set to 75, then after 2 weeks reduced to 50.
> 
> 
> I've had my Panny 65GT30 since the first of February. The IR (I'm hoping that is all this is and not burn-in) that you see (bar just below the top of the screen and above the bottom) is from Morning Joe on MSNBC. I watch from 6-7:15 M-F, and the longest time before a commercial break is 20 minutes. That I would get IR so easily when there are lots of commercial breaks is really puzzling. Hours on end of continual bars I can see, but not when the image is often changed. And this is an off-white bar, not a bright, bleached white bar. I have an '03 Panny plasma that has never given me an IR problem and I did everything, except play games, to that thing from the very beginning. So far I've run the Disney WOW for 4 consecutive hours and no change. I'll run it all day tomorrow to see if I can get rid of it. From what I've read I understand it can take some time to remove this. I hope.



If you lowered both your Contrast and Brightness down to 50 and watch full screen mode regularly, that thing will be gone in about 2-3 months. I know, it sounds absurd for being that long but it has worked for me. When I received my set (TC-P42G25) the brightness settings were pretty high too and not knowing that a very bright white brand logo from my Denon receiver had embedded on my screen (during 35 min. speaker setup) where I can easily see it on light or white backgrounds.


What I also did during the process:

1. I ran the break-in images for 24 hours

2. Ran static snow for 24 hours

3. Tuned in to The Cartoon Network for 12 hours

4. All 4:3 contents are now zoomed to full screen.

5. Watch TV regularly at full screen


During those times I had forgotten all about this supposedly burn-in (or Heavy Image-Retention). Two months later I decided to put on a bright white screen by pausing one of the break-in images to see if that mark was still there, but the logo was gone, I mean completely disappeared!


----------



## QuiGonJosh

I'm glad I don't watch cable with all of their station logos and news crawls and such.


----------



## eagle_2

I'm starting to wonder if people who watch cable tv should just forget about owning a plasma and suffer with LCD quality instead. 2 months seems absurd just to clear the screen and get it back to new condition (when it's only 3 months old anyways). I can easily see image retention being a dealbreaker for the vast majority of people. I love plasma's image quality but I'm really starting to have my doubts.


There's no question what looks better. But Aliens doesn't seem too happy right now with his set.


----------



## 80sGuy

The first 200 hours has always been fragile for plasma panels, but once it goes pass that mark you'll be fine. I've had my 42G25 since February 2011 and been watching Netflix movies in both letter-boxed and full-screen formats everyday -- how can I not with the awesome picture quality? So far it's been flawless! I still get image-retentions normally on my plasma to this day but this the nature of plasma panels, and they are only temporary and usually washes off during commercial breaks or if I switch to different channels.


----------



## Aliens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22071257
> 
> 
> 
> ...Aliens doesn't seem too happy right now with his set.



I don’t know how long those bars have been there. Last week I had ChadB calibrate my set, so before he came I took pictures to show a before and after difference. You can see those here and here It was then that I noticed the bars. Once you notice them its like a magnet; you are drawn to them. The bottom one I seldom notice because of all the color in that area of the screen. The top one is more obvious when you have a light background, such as a sky shot. What really irritates me is the minimum amount of time it took for those suckers to imbed themselves: 20 minutes tops. From the beginning I’ve watched 4:3 content, watched other stations with garbage on the screen for longer periods of time, and had the black bars top and bottom showing for 2 hours while watching many BDs without any problems. I suppose I could call Panasonic and register a complaint and ask for a replacement (not that they would), but I just spent over $300 to have it calibrated and I’m fairly certain they will go away over time. Having said all of that, I love this TV. After calibration the set looks awesome. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another. But damn, 20 minutes?


----------



## PeterLewis

Alien,I too had to babysit my 55GT30 when I first got it.I had the stubborn IR from the word menu from the tv and it was a pain to get rid of.I ran snow,pixelwashdvd but I think running the color slides at default custom settings works best.It is all but gone now.


I strongly recommend that if you watch news(FOX,CNN,MSNBC) or sportscenter to watch in the tv standard mode at default setting with color 36-40 and c.a.t.s on.It keeps the light output and contrast at minimum.Then for normal programming and BR just switch to your custom or THX settings.


----------



## eagle_2

I just think its funny how the entire reason we buy these plasmas is because of their picture quality over LCD, then we're advised to set the contrast and light output so low that the screen looks muddy and dim. So what's the point of the plasma then? Just because I'm watching Seinfeld or Dancing with the Stars and not Tron Legacy doesn't mean I want the tv to look like garbage. I think it's pretty silly to expect people to adjust their set to look dim or muddy for regular tv viewing. I would not want to watch Fringe with the contrast and brightness turned down to 50. At that point an LCD would end up looking better (maybe not but my point is right now I've been breaking in my E8000 for about a week with Cinemax and the brightness and contrast are at 50 - I can't imagine being happy watching regular tv with it set this low).


Plasmas are already somewhat at a disadvantage due to their somewhat limited light output. To ask people to set the brightness and contrast at a minimum for daily viewing and only brighten it up for movie events is kind of puzzling. I want my plasma to look good regardless of what I'm watching, not just the few hours a week I watch DVD/blu-ray. Otherwise what's the point?


----------



## PeterLewis

@eagle,Its only when the tv is new through the first few hundred hours to use the standard mode default color 36-40.Just until the pixels mature and get broken in right.After that ride it like you stole it.


----------



## eagle_2

Well I'm aiming at putting in 180-200 hours for break-in with Cinemax at full 16:9 viewing only, with brightness and contrast at 50%. Hopefully that will set me up for the long run. Right now I'm at around 110 hours.


I do think that the picture on these plasmas are gorgeous. I'm just nervous when I hear all the talk of image retention. That's why I don't mind breaking in the set a bit longer - it's worth it to me if it will make a difference.


----------



## PeterLewis

Eagle2....You ever hear the saying "That which fear shall soon come to pass"


Stop dreading it and have confidence that everything will be ok.


I have an old 06 42HDS69 Hitachi that I literally put through ringer between gaming and various sports and no kind of burn in.


Just becareful the first few hundred hours and be at peace.


----------



## 80sGuy

Just watch regular tv for the first few hundred hours and not to worry about everything. After that you can set your Contrast/Brightness up a bit. Keep in mind though, you will still get image-retentions no matter.


----------



## Ace1965




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22073325
> 
> 
> i just think its funny how the entire reason we buy these plasmas is because of their picture quality over lcd, then we're advised to set the contrast and light output so low that the screen looks muddy and dim. So what's the point of the plasma then? Just because i'm watching seinfeld or dancing with the stars and not tron legacy doesn't mean i want the tv to look like garbage. I think it's pretty silly to expect people to adjust their set to look dim or muddy for regular tv viewing. I would not want to watch fringe with the contrast and brightness turned down to 50. At that point an lcd would end up looking better (maybe not but my point is right now i've been breaking in my e8000 for about a week with cinemax and the brightness and contrast are at 50 - i can't imagine being happy watching regular tv with it set this low).
> 
> 
> Plasmas are already somewhat at a disadvantage due to their somewhat limited light output. To ask people to set the brightness and contrast at a minimum for daily viewing and only brighten it up for movie events is kind of puzzling. I want my plasma to look good regardless of what i'm watching, not just the few hours a week i watch dvd/blu-ray. Otherwise what's the point?



+1


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22073325
> 
> 
> I just think its funny how the entire reason we buy these plasmas is because of their picture quality over LCD, then we're advised to set the contrast and light output so low that the screen looks muddy and dim. So what's the point of the plasma then? Just because I'm watching Seinfeld or Dancing with the Stars and not Tron Legacy doesn't mean I want the tv to look like garbage. I think it's pretty silly to expect people to adjust their set to look dim or muddy for regular tv viewing. I would not want to watch Fringe with the contrast and brightness turned down to 50. At that point an LCD would end up looking better (maybe not but my point is right now I've been breaking in my E8000 for about a week with Cinemax and the brightness and contrast are at 50 - I can't imagine being happy watching regular tv with it set this low).
> 
> 
> "Plasmas are already somewhat at a disadvantage due to their somewhat limited light output. To ask people to set the brightness and contrast at a minimum for daily viewing and only brighten it up for movie events is kind of puzzling. I want my plasma to look good regardless of what I'm watching, not just the few hours a week I watch DVD/blu-ray. Otherwise what's the point?"



Well Said ! And your right...And that is a fact.


My panasonic plasma 50 inches v series did put IR for the first 200hrs or so.And as all members have advised i did not allow static images_Logos,Black bars for more than 20 to 30 minutes.And during that period itself my plasma used to get IR and also from the menu screen from BD player,DTH-HD box and from the Tv menu itself.But in just 4 to 6 minutes of viewing different content the IR used to vanish.And the IR used to happen when viewing static content after a cold start.i.e when the plasma tv is warmed up for 30 to 40 minutes then viewing contents with scoreboard,channel logos,news stickers,stock market scroll bars and even 16:9 content with black bars on top & bottom of the screen is very less prone to IR once the tv is well warmed up.And i watched all my movies with colour,brightness,contrast all set to my liking even when it was hardly 5hrs or one day old.All i took care was,to view the 16:9 content in zoom one mode which did remove black bars from top & bottom of the screen ! But now i do not pamper my tv in any way.Iam using it as regular CRT tv.And its around one year old.

And if one does not have the time & patience for their plasma to break-in for 500hrs or 6 months of usage.It would be better for them to go in for a sharp elite LED tv with local dimming and with yellow LED added for better picture quality.And i think sizes are now avaliable in 60,70,80Inches.And reviews say that the black levels on these new LED Tv's are closer to hi end plasma tv's.

By the way iam happy with my plasma,And hopping that in a couple of years, i would like to upgrade to a bigger sized tv,And iam sure that it would also be a panasonic plasma most likely from the VT line up 65inches model.


Love,

kris.


----------



## Aliens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris achar* /forum/post/22078663
> 
> 
> And the IR used to happen when viewing static content after a cold start.i.e when the plasma tv is warmed up for 30 to 40 minutes then viewing contents with scoreboard,channel logos,news stickers,stock market scroll bars and even 16:9 content with black bars on top & bottom of the screen is very less prone to IR once the tv is well warmed up.



That’s an interesting observation. I’m not sure how valid it is, though, and I’m not saying it isn’t. It would seem more prone once it was fully fired rather than during the warm up period. That is why you wait for an hour, early on, to do a self calibration. From my understanding, the more hours you have on it the less amount of time it takes (30 minutes) to warm up.


----------



## PooperScooper

Aliens, try putting up an all white screen and turn contrast all the way up. See if that gets rid of the IR. Some panels used to come with all white screen as a setting just for that. And it will age the phosphors the quickest.


larry


----------



## hungro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PooperScooper* /forum/post/22079298
> 
> 
> Aliens, try putting up an all white screen and turn contrast all the way up. See if that gets rid of the IR. Some panels used to come with all white screen as a setting just for that. And it will age the phosphors the quickest.
> 
> 
> larry



Hello, I ran the washer , pixel jogger, pixel image smooth slides, white screen etc. over night for a few nights now. Haven't really noticed a difference with my heavy IR. I am not calling it *Burn In*. I have the ghost image of the video input label that pops op when you change settings like contrast, brightness etc. the one that is in the top right hand corner of the screen. It is visible on a white background and a dark background zero ire as well. Still going to continue running a combination of all the above mentioned slides. I just set it too repeat all titles from my USB stick and run them overnight. I have had this image retention for months now. Got it while doing calibration sessions and entering in value for 2 pt and 10 pt using settings from the forums until i had my own meter to calibrate guess the image stayed on the screen for too long. My contrast is at 95 and cell at 16.


----------



## StevenC56

OK-I'm not the least bit savvy when it comes to this stuff-I've downloaded the break-in slides zip file from the webpage link on the first post of this thread onto my desktop and have a CD-R in my drive. Now what do I do?


----------



## Aliens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StevenC56* /forum/post/22086773
> 
> 
> OK-I'm not the least bit savvy when it comes to this stuff-I've downloaded the break-in slides zip file from the webpage link on the first post of this thread onto my desktop and have a CD-R in my drive. Now what do I do?



Does your TV have a SD card slot or USB? If so, that would be the simple way to go. Slip it in and put it on repeat slideshow. I'm not familiar with using a CD for that procedure. Also, with the SD or USB, the TV is the only thing that needs to be on.


----------



## StevenC56




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aliens* /forum/post/22087249
> 
> 
> Does your TV have a SD card slot or USB? If so, that would be the simple way to go. Slip it in and put it on repeat slideshow. I'm not familiar with using a CD for that procedure. Also, with the SD or USB, the TV is the only thing that needs to be on.



Yes on both slots-How do I convert the zipfile and install the slides on a USB stick then?


----------



## Aliens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StevenC56* /forum/post/22087559
> 
> 
> Yes on both slots-How do I convert the zipfile and install the slides on a USB stick then?



Plug the USB into your computer and left click the zip break-in images folder, then - extract all. Once that is done, right click the break-in images file and send them to removable disc. It only takes a few seconds. When finished, plug the USB into your TV and access that feature. There should be a repeat slideshow or similar nomenclature.


----------



## tveli

thanks to all the folks here reporting their experience with plasma burnin.

as a CRT snob, i can't bring myself to buy a big LCD/"LED" or a big plasma. yet. Sooner or later I'll have to buy an absurdly huge flat panel 'smart tv' at walmart however.

I often leave the TV on 24x7 for days at a time, on whatever random free-TV-channel, or on a MOXI-DVR screen, so gotta avoid the plasmas. is what it is.


TTFN !


----------



## Iron Condor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tveli* /forum/post/22091228
> 
> 
> thanks to all the folks here reporting their experience with plasma burnin.
> 
> as a CRT snob, i can't bring myself to buy a big LCD/"LED" or a big plasma. yet. Sooner or later I'll have to buy an absurdly huge flat panel 'smart tv' at walmart however.
> 
> I often leave the TV on 24x7 for days at a time, on whatever random free-TV-channel, or on a MOXI-DVR screen, so gotta avoid the plasmas. is what it is.
> 
> 
> TTFN !



Well in cases like these you probably should avoid plasma. Just note that LCDs aren't immune to damage from static images, nor were CRTs for that matter.


----------



## Mr. Tact




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tveli* /forum/post/22091228
> 
> 
> as a CRT snob



I'm not sure what you are attempting to represent here, unless you are being a "CRT snob" based purely on a greater resistance to IR. As indicated, even CRTs can have issues with IR. I can't imagine anyone buying a CRT for "normal" home use at this point in time. It would be silly.


Personally, I'd consider the insistence of using a CRT over current flat screen technologies acting more like a curmudgeon than acting like a snob.


----------



## jbrady3324

I have 2:35:1 letterbox black bar burn-in. As this is due to uneven phosphor wear, is there a way to reverse/reduce this by playing images only on the top and bottom portions of the TV? I am currently running slides of white shades on the top and bottom of the screen and black/grey shades in the middle


I am looking for images that do multiple colors instead of just white


----------



## eagle_2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbrady3324* /forum/post/22098710
> 
> 
> I have 2:35:1 letterbox black bar burn-in. As this is due to uneven phosphor wear, is there a way to reverse/reduce this by playing images only on the top and bottom portions of the TV? I am currently running slides of white shades on the top and bottom of the screen and black/grey shades in the middle
> 
> 
> I am looking for images that do multiple colors instead of just white



So this can actually happen just from watching letterboxed films? I keep wondering why I went with plasma since their images aren't perfect anyways (hockey pops, etc) and I have to worry every time I watch anything. People keep saying how CRT and LCD was also susceptible to IR, but let's be honest with ourselves - how difficult is it to get IR on an LCD or CRT? I used to game for marathon sessions and watch hours straight of letterboxed films on my old CRT, sometimes I'd even fall asleep with it on and wake up in the morning to a static weather screen or something, and never, ever, with all of my CRTs, did I ever have the slightest hint of anything like IR. It was virtually impossible to get even a slight hint of IR on CRTs unless you literally used it as a point-of-sale monitor at a store or something that would have the same image on for years. That's the only time I ever saw IR/burn-in on any type of CRT display.


----------



## jbrady3324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22098827
> 
> 
> So this can actually happen just from watching letterboxed films? I keep wondering why I went with plasma since their images aren't perfect anyways (hockey pops, etc) and I have to worry every time I watch anything. People keep saying how CRT and LCD was also susceptible to IR, but let's be honest with ourselves - how difficult is it to get IR on an LCD or CRT? I used to game for marathon sessions and watch hours straight of letterboxed films on my old CRT, sometimes I'd even fall asleep with it on and wake up in the morning to a static weather screen or something, and never, ever, with all of my CRTs, did I ever have the slightest hint of anything like IR. It was virtually impossible to get even a slight hint of IR on CRTs unless you literally used it as a point-of-sale monitor at a store or something that would have the same image on for years. That's the only time I ever saw IR/burn-in on any type of CRT display.



Yes it can definitely happen. The phosphors wear at different rates resulting in this type of burn-in. Although, burn-in is not the right term as it is just uneven wear of the TV.


----------



## eagle_2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbrady3324* /forum/post/22098867
> 
> 
> Yes it can definitely happen. The phosphors wear at different rates resulting in this type of burn-in. Although, burn-in is not the right term as it is just uneven wear of the TV.



Well I guess the next question should be how much letterbox viewing does it take for this uneven wear to happen to plasma? I watch lots of films, many of which are letterboxed (anyone who watches blu-ray or DVD will certainly come across letterboxing regularly). I also watch lots of 4:3 material. So then am I going to regret owning a plasma? The more I think about it the more I think that the benefits of plasma are outweighed by the strict limitations on what you can actually view on it safely.


----------



## jbrady3324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2* /forum/post/22099012
> 
> 
> Well I guess the next question should be how much letterbox viewing does it take for this uneven wear to happen to plasma? I watch lots of films, many of which are letterboxed (anyone who watches blu-ray or DVD will certainly come across letterboxing regularly). I also watch lots of 4:3 material. So then am I going to regret owning a plasma? The more I think about it the more I think that the benefits of plasma are outweighed by the strict limitations on what you can actually view on it safely.



No you won't regret it. I have two Pioneer Plasmas:


141fd - Bought used with the letterbox burn-in already present. Owner used it mainly for blu-rays.. most of them must have been 2.35:1


500m - Watch non-stop ESPN and a ton of 2.35:1 blu-rays. There isn't a hint of retention/burn-in anywhere.


They key is to use the right calibrated contrast setting most of the time and to mix up watch you watch (full screen, 4:3, 2.35, etc.). Every once in awhile run the white bar video pattern and you will be fine.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbrady3324* /forum/post/22099139
> 
> 
> No you won't regret it. I have two Pioneer Plasmas:
> 
> 
> 141fd - Bought used with the letterbox burn-in already present. Owner used it mainly for blu-rays.. most of them must have been 2.35:1
> 
> 
> 500m - Watch non-stop ESPN and a ton of 2.35:1 blu-rays. There isn't a hint of retention/burn-in anywhere.
> 
> 
> They key is to use the right calibrated contrast setting most of the time and to mix up watch you watch (full screen, 4:3, 2.35, etc.). Every once in awhile run the white bar video pattern and you will be fine.



What you have said,could only be applicable to pioneer grade plasma tv's which are not manufactured anymore ! And what is very painful is that panasonic having the rights for its pattens has shelved it.It could have relaunched it under its 2D models at a fairly competitive price.So that its more affordable to many now.

And what is more funny is that every year tv manufactures in japan complain of huge losses.If they keep on spending more in R&D and discontinue great solid models for the sake of smart tv's & better 3D tv's for yearly launch could result in closure of some factories like pioneer corp plasma division witnessed few years back.

History repeats itself for men never learn.


----------



## talltitan

Samsung 51D550 owner here with what appears to be some bad IR from the Mass Effect 3 multilayer consumable item HUD. The set had a good 600 hrs plus on it before I ever played the game and the IR has been there for over 6 weeks since.


Settings where in game mode with the cell at 18, contrast at 85, brightness 42, 16:9 orbiter on at 4.4.1 setting.


In the six week period that I played the multilayer I couldn't have played any more than 30 hrs tops of the game, with no gaming session lasting longer than three hours. When I first got the set I tried to stress it pretty hard by playing no telling how many hours of Skyrim and a friend and I actually sat and played the hole Gears of War 3 campaign split screen together in one long night just a couple of days after buying the set with the only after effects being the normal IR that fades in a hour or so.


The IR is not really visible at all during normal viewing, the only time I can see it is against solid colored images most predominantly completely white backgrounds.


I have since ran the image swipe that is in the menu section for burn in on the set for probably 24 hrs, Zoyds personal washer for 24 hrs, and ran the break in slides for a good 12 hrs, and blasted it with a complete white screen in dynamic for a good 12 hours and then the normal full screen viewing that I watch plus other games and can't really tell that it has faded much or at all.


Outside of the one issue the set has been really good against retaining any images for no longer than a hour and even that retention was so light you really couldn't find it unless you went up to the set and looked for it.


I really like the set good picture and all but between this heavy IR which I hope will go away and the brightness pops that I had with set when I first got it, which where fixed from the USB update I got from Samsung the set has been little to problematic in my opinion


Any one here had IR like described above that took months to go away? Will unplugging the set when I am at work help?


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talltitan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22118769
> 
> 
> Samsung 51D550 owner here with what appears to be some bad IR from the Mass Effect 3 multilayer consumable item HUD. The set had a good 600 hrs plus on it before I ever played the game and the IR has been there for over 6 weeks since.
> 
> Settings where in game mode with the cell at 18, contrast at 85, brightness 42, 16:9 orbiter on at 4.4.1 setting.
> 
> In the six week period that I played the multilayer I couldn't have played any more than 30 hrs tops of the game, with no gaming session lasting longer than three hours. When I first got the set I tried to stress it pretty hard by playing no telling how many hours of Skyrim and a friend and I actually sat and played the hole Gears of War 3 campaign split screen together in one long night just a couple of days after buying the set with the only after effects being the normal IR that fades in a hour or so.
> 
> The IR is not really visible at all during normal viewing, the only time I can see it is against solid colored images most predominantly completely white backgrounds.
> 
> I have since ran the image swipe that is in the menu section for burn in on the set for probably 24 hrs, Zoyds personal washer for 24 hrs, and ran the break in slides for a good 12 hrs, and blasted it with a complete white screen in dynamic for a good 12 hours and then the normal full screen viewing that I watch plus other games and can't really tell that it has faded much or at all.
> 
> Outside of the one issue the set has been really good against retaining any images for no longer than a hour and even that retention was so light you really couldn't find it unless you went up to the set and looked for it.
> 
> I really like the set good picture and all but between this heavy IR which I hope will go away and the brightness pops that I had with set when I first got it, which where fixed from the USB update I got from Samsung the set has been little to problematic in my opinion
> 
> Any one here had IR like described above that took months to go away? Will unplugging the set when I am at work help?


Sorry to hear about the stubborn IR.But what i have realized after reading so much information about IR in the Net.That one could safely say that plasma tv's are not that suitable for Gaming or use it like a pc monitor.Now in your case you need not run slides or blast the panel with whilte color still in dynamic mode.All you can do now is just watch movies,fast movies action sports etc without logos and black bars.Do not force or push you tv too hard.If the IR is not permanent it will fade gradually....in few weeks or a months time.To my knowledge plasma are highly susceptible to IR.And if the person is to watch the same set of channels or plays the same kind of game daily,This is bound to give permanent burn-in.While some may be lucky to get plasma's that are rock solid and bullet proof quality but rest should be bit careful while using their plasma.May be the pioneer "Kuro" line of plasma may be totally Burn-In free.But that does not apply to all the other plasmas available now in the market...


Wish you all the best.


----------



## melio111

Well I'm looking at getting a Panasonic GT50. I'm a movie and videogame guy. But I'm pretty confused over this break in period before you really use the TV. I own a lot of Blurays and most have the 2.35:1 aspect ratio.


Now what I gathered here is I need to really limit thhose kinds of movies a lot for the first 100 hours. Why is that? After my first 100 hours can i watch 2.35:1 ratio movies all the time and not worry about the letterbox burn in?


----------



## kehakas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *melio111*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22121386
> 
> 
> Well I'm looking at getting a Panasonic GT50. I'm a movie and videogame guy. But I'm pretty confused over this break in period before you really use the TV. I own a lot of Blurays and most have the 2.35:1 aspect ratio.
> 
> Now what I gathered here is I need to really limit thhose kinds of movies a lot for the first 100 hours. Why is that? After my first 100 hours can i watch 2.35:1 ratio movies all the time and not worry about the letterbox burn in?



I have the same question. From everything I've read, on the portion of your screen taken up by black bars, the phosphors aren't firing at all, so they're not aging as fast as the pixels displaying the 2.35:1 movie. After a while, when you display fullscreen content, the content in the areas where the black bars were will look different from the rest of the picture.


My question is, how severe is this problem, specifically on 2012 Panasonics like the ST50? If I get my set and do D-Nice's 100 hours, but then watch a 10-hour Lord of the Rings marathon, will I immediately notice uneven wear of the picture, assuming I'm eagle-eyed?


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kehakas*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22121573
> 
> 
> I have the same question. From everything I've read, on the portion of your screen taken up by black bars, the phosphors aren't firing at all, so they're not aging as fast as the pixels displaying the 2.35:1 movie. After a while, when you display fullscreen content, the content in the areas where the black bars were will look different from the rest of the picture.
> 
> My question is, how severe is this problem, specifically on 2012 Panasonics like the ST50? If I get my set and do D-Nice's 100 hours, but then watch a 10-hour Lord of the Rings marathon, will I immediately notice uneven wear of the picture, assuming I'm eagle-eyed?



If you do a 10 hour LOTR marathon, yes you definitely will. Watching a two hour movie? Not so much. I've watched a few 2.35:1 BD's on my month old UT50 and haven't noticed any IR or uneven wear.


----------



## jbrady3324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22121701
> 
> 
> If you do a 10 hour LOTR marathon, yes you definitely will. Watching a two hour movie? Not so much. I've watched a few 2.35:1 BD's on my month old UT50 and haven't noticed any IR or uneven wear.



For this to happen I would think you would need a few thousand hours of difference for uneven wear to show


----------



## melio111

Hmmmmm. So we get a yes and no to our questions.....lol


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbrady3324*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22121865
> 
> 
> For this to happen I would think you would need a few thousand hours of difference for uneven wear to show



This is true. My 4 year old Panasonic PX80U has no uneven wear and I've watched hundreds of 2.35:1 BD's during that time.


----------



## eagle_2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22122959
> 
> 
> This is true. My 4 year old Panasonic PX80U has no uneven wear and I've watched hundreds of 2.35:1 BD's during that time.



Didn't you just answer that question 2 different ways? First you said he definitely will if he does a 10 hour LOTR marathon, then you agreed above that it would take thousands of hours.


----------



## eagle_2

Probably a lot of you may have already read this but I figured I'd post this link here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eagle_2*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22125008
> 
> 
> Didn't you just answer that question 2 different ways? First you said he definitely will if he does a 10 hour LOTR marathon, then you agreed above that it would take thousands of hours.



I thought he was asking if he did a 10 hour LOTR marathon shortly after buying the set. I did do a LOTR marathon, but over the course of several days and not all at once one after the other.










Uneven wear is kind of different from IR. IR is more temporary, but uneven wear happens over the course of months and years.


----------



## kehakas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22121701
> 
> 
> If you do a 10 hour LOTR marathon, yes you definitely will. Watching a two hour movie? Not so much. I've watched a few 2.35:1 BD's on my month old UT50 and haven't noticed any IR or uneven wear.



Thanks for the response! I'll do my best to mix in a majority of fullscreen content in the early hours of the TV's lifespan, but I'm not going to worry about it too much, because there's only so much worrying you can do.


----------



## QuiGonJosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kehakas*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22127812
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response! I'll do my best to mix in a majority of fullscreen content in the early hours of the TV's lifespan, but I'm not going to worry about it too much, because there's only so much worrying you can do.



Very true. Black bars don't seem to cause much in the way of IR with these years sets. Bright station logos and game HUD's seem to be the worst offenders.


----------



## Yomaster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talltitan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22118769
> 
> 
> Samsung 51D550 owner here with what appears to be some bad IR from the Mass Effect 3 multilayer consumable item HUD. The set had a good 600 hrs plus on it before I ever played the game and the IR has been there for over 6 weeks since.
> 
> Settings where in game mode with the cell at 18, contrast at 85, brightness 42, 16:9 orbiter on at 4.4.1 setting.
> 
> In the six week period that I played the multilayer I couldn't have played any more than 30 hrs tops of the game, with no gaming session lasting longer than three hours. When I first got the set I tried to stress it pretty hard by playing no telling how many hours of Skyrim and a friend and I actually sat and played the hole Gears of War 3 campaign split screen together in one long night just a couple of days after buying the set with the only after effects being the normal IR that fades in a hour or so.
> 
> The IR is not really visible at all during normal viewing, the only time I can see it is against solid colored images most predominantly completely white backgrounds.
> 
> I have since ran the image swipe that is in the menu section for burn in on the set for probably 24 hrs, Zoyds personal washer for 24 hrs, and ran the break in slides for a good 12 hrs, and blasted it with a complete white screen in dynamic for a good 12 hours and then the normal full screen viewing that I watch plus other games and can't really tell that it has faded much or at all.
> 
> Outside of the one issue the set has been really good against retaining any images for no longer than a hour and even that retention was so light you really couldn't find it unless you went up to the set and looked for it.
> 
> I really like the set good picture and all but between this heavy IR which I hope will go away and the brightness pops that I had with set when I first got it, which where fixed from the USB update I got from Samsung the set has been little to problematic in my opinion
> 
> Any one here had IR like described above that took months to go away? Will unplugging the set when I am at work help?



You and I are in the EXACT same boat here. I have a PN51D550 from last October, and am an avid Battlefield 3 player. NO problems up until a few days ago, when I noticed residual HUD elements on my screen. I can really only see them on a flat-colored background. I too have installed the update sent to me on a USB stick to fix the brightness pops.


I played this game (and plenty of other games) a lot more last year on this TV, when the set was newer and the game had recently come out. I even checked for burn-in periodically. Never noticed a thing up until this point. I've been running the scrolling to see if it will erase it. It's reduced quite a bit, but it's still there. What's weird is it's mainly a gaming TV, and I've played long consecutive bouts of tons of games, never a problem until now.


Please let me know if you manage to find a fix or if it fades.


----------



## WilliamR

I had the moderators add the newest post link to the stickies, now you should be able to go right to the first new post frrom the sticky instead of finding the thread.


----------



## brody76




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22127966
> 
> 
> Very true. Black bars don't seem to cause much in the way of IR with these years sets. Bright station logos and game HUD's seem to be the worst offenders.



When I watched a movie with black bars, I usually put the washing screen and leave the TV.

It will turn off alone 30 minutes later and erase everything.


Sometimes I even watch 2 movies in a row with black bars, never had an issue.

It usually disappears after the wash screen was turned on for a bit.


It's more about developing the good reflexes.

When you finish playing/watching a movie just throw in the wash screen instead of turning it off right away.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brody76*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22143260
> 
> 
> When I watched a movie with black bars, I usually put the washing screen and leave the TV.
> 
> It will turn off alone 30 minutes later and erase everything.
> 
> Sometimes I even watch 2 movies in a row with black bars, never had an issue.
> 
> It usually disappears after the wash screen was turned on for a bit.
> 
> It's more about developing the good reflexes.
> 
> When you finish playing/watching a movie just throw in the wash screen instead of turning it off right away.



I always do this as well. Lately when watching ESPN, I've zoomed in myself.


----------



## bokes

I have not been in awhile.

My Pioneer Kuro pro Elite 111FD has been more or less perfect.

I have noticed some occasional IR from games or black bars before.

A few days ago I noticed an IR of the cartoon Network on the lower right screen- CN.

My son watches this station about 2 hours daily while he plays in the room.


It's been several days and it's still there.

I have zoomed in on the screen in an effort to wash it out.

So far- it's still there.


needless to say I'm quite pissed.

What is wrong with these stations that they need to ruin our televisions?

Why do they have to tell us what station we're watching? We tuned in- isn't that enough.

I want to write the network and complain- but know it will do nothing but waste my time.



Anyway- any IR in the past _has_ gone away in time- but this time it is being real stubborn.

Any advice? Or just wait it out and hope for the best?


----------



## jbrady3324

It will go away in due time. But you can run Disney Wow Pixel flipper overnight or the white bar scroller overnight. Really, anyway full screen content overnight (maybe a few times) should do the trick


----------



## TWD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bokes*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22217671
> 
> 
> I have not been in awhile.
> 
> My Pioneer Kuro pro Elite 111FD has been more or less perfect.
> 
> I have noticed some occasional IR from games or black bars before.
> 
> A few days ago I noticed an IR of the cartoon Network on the lower right screen- CN.
> 
> My son watches this station about 2 hours daily while he plays in the room.
> 
> 
> It's been several days and it's still there.
> 
> I have zoomed in on the screen in an effort to wash it out.
> 
> So far- it's still there.
> 
> 
> needless to say I'm quite pissed.
> 
> What is wrong with these stations that they need to ruin our televisions?
> 
> Why do they have to tell us what station we're watching? We tuned in- isn't that enough.
> 
> I want to write the network and complain- but know it will do nothing but waste my time.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway- any IR in the past _has_ gone away in time- but this time it is being real stubborn.
> 
> Any advice? Or just wait it out and hope for the best?



I had some stubborn IR caused by the RETURN logo on the main menu. I ran the scroll bar and full content for a few days. It lightened up but it was still there. Last night I ran the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper for one hour and it was gone.


----------



## Jawzey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QuiGonJosh*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3750#post_22127966
> 
> 
> Very true. Black bars don't seem to cause much in the way of IR with these years sets. Bright station logos and game HUD's seem to be the worst offenders.



I've been playing A LOT of CoD lately and the HUD hasn't been much of a concern for me. Maybe my 42UT50 is just stronger than the other sets. I've gamed up to periods of 3+ hours and I haven't noticed much from the HUD.


----------



## Drummerdude82

DELETED


----------



## PeterG

In general, matters like IR and burn-in are given short shrift in reviews. Interestingly, this review discusses this in relative depth. David MacKenzie, the reviewer, was one of the 4 calibrators at this year's Flat Panel shootout:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm 


Go to the 3rd page of the review to see this discussed.


To quote a paragraph:

_"We deliberately put this at the top of the Picture Performance section, because we think the Samsung PS60E6500′s performance in this area is a big deal. Image retention is often cited as the main reason to avoid buying a Plasma television. While we think the issue is often blown out of proportion and confused with permanent screen burn, there’s no denying that it’s an annoyance we’d rather be without. The fact that Samsung has produced a plasma display which is, for most reasonable purposes, free of this issue, is an outstanding achievement."_


Edit: added paragraph.


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterG*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22252139
> 
> 
> In general, matters like IR and burn-in are given short shrift in reviews. Interestingly, this review discusses this in relative depth. David MacKenzie, the reviewer, was one of the 4 calibrators at this year's Flat Panel shootout:
> http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm
> 
> Go to the 3rd page of the review to see this discussed.
> 
> To quote a paragraph:
> _"We deliberately put this at the top of the Picture Performance section, because we think the Samsung PS60E6500′s performance in this area is a big deal. Image retention is often cited as the main reason to avoid buying a Plasma television. While we think the issue is often blown out of proportion and confused with permanent screen burn, there’s no denying that it’s an annoyance we’d rather be without. The fact that Samsung has produced a plasma display which is, for most reasonable purposes, free of this issue, is an outstanding achievement."_
> 
> Edit: added paragraph.



For what it's worth. My Panasonic ST30 is also awesome with regards to temporary image retention (TIR). In fact, I have only gotten TIR a few times from watching something static for 4 plus hours without switching up my viewing. Each time, the retention was gone in literally seconds. I watch whatever I want on my Panasonic and for how long I like and TIR hasn't been a issue either. I think Samsung is only getting this extra attention because everyone can't believe they finally do well with TIR .


----------



## piterli

hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?


----------



## Jawzey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *piterli*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22253688
> 
> 
> hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?



Yes, it will indeed help. However, if whatever you are downloading is no longer than ten minutes, you shall be fine either way.


----------



## coolguyf

I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-P50UT50 (2 weeks ago) and I notice the word "MENU" is retained on my screen. Obviously I spent too much time adjusting the TV settings before the 100-hour break-in period. My question is, is there a way to reverse this? I've probably watched the TV for around 60-70 hours so far. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Burned

Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.


So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.

Now my TV is most likely ruined.

My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Burned*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780_60#post_22257919
> 
> 
> Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.
> 
> So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.
> 
> Now my TV is most likely ruined.
> 
> My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?



I think you are jumping the gun a bit. Don't play games for a few days and just watch a broad array of content. If it is still present in a few days then think again.


----------



## cv1981

My nephew played Left 4 Dead 2 (Xbox 360) on my Panasonic U50 for approximately 2 hours. It took nearly a week and a half for the game huds to completely disappear, and that was also with never playing that game again. I have somewhere around 500-600 hours on my unit by now, IR has lessened since the first 100 hours, but it is still a problem with my tv, especially gaming.


----------



## Burned




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterG*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22257927
> 
> 
> I think you are jumping the gun a bit. Don't play games for a few days and just watch a broad array of content. If it is still present in a few days then think again.



Perhaps, but it's pretty alarming this happened so quickly. I bought this TV based off of an article on best TV's for gaming


----------



## TWD

Disney WOW pixel flipper works much better then the scroll bar or watching regular content.


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Burned*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780_60#post_22258049
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but it's pretty alarming this happened so quickly. I bought this TV based off of an article on best TV's for gaming



I still believe that this will go away given enough time. Referring to the review I posted above, I will quote another part of it:


".... In this setup, input lag was only 16ms compared to a CRT display, making the Samsung PS60E6500 one of the fastest TVs for gaming we’ve tested. Couple this with an uncanny ability to avoid image retention, coupled with the usual picture quality and motion clarity inherent to Plasma technology, and we’re left with a video gamer’s dream."


That being said, I do think you have a fine display for gaming and quite possibly, although still very much anecdotal as experiences vary, it may become more resistant to IR.


----------



## Burned

OK, so I'm going to put it on something like HBO and just leave it on to see if it will go away. Should I crank up the brightness and contrast? I've noticed the TV settings are much dimmer than the game mode.


----------



## 80sGuy

You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780_60#post_22258239
> 
> 
> You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.



That is not very helpful for someone who has just bought a new TV and perhaps was not prepared for what he is seeing. That said, I do agree with your suggestion of merely watching regular tv. Yes, the pixel flipper may well speed up the the removal of the IR but that merely feeds into the whole neurotic process. So one find one's first case of IR and then you run the pixel flipper for several hours and the IR hopefully goes away, all the while not enjoying the TV as it was meant to be enjoyed. You then relax and start feeling happier about your purchase until the next incident of IR and the cycle continues until, hopefully, the IR becomes less and less prevalent. Clearly, there is panel to panel variance within a specific model number and some may get IR and others not (or perhaps not noticing it). There is a mass of anecdotal information on various forums on both sides of the Atlantic.


With that all said, it seems clear that if one wants the best chance of not seeing IR (and if IR is something that would be particular bothersome to you), and you want a pdp, the best choice is one of the E6500/E7000/E8000 series. You will not get the deepest blacks, and your Samsung is quite likely to be more prone to buzzing, but you will probably get better image processing on less than pristine sources... etc etc. Essentially, pick your poison.


----------



## Burned




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *80sGuy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22258239
> 
> 
> You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.



I had a 42" Samsung plasma for 6 years, gamed extensively, and never had an issue. I'm freaking out because newer TV's are _supposed_ to be better about this sort of thing, and it's visible no matter what is on the screen, not just with a solid bright background.


----------



## sonyfan

The 2012 Samsungs have NO problems with IR.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance


----------



## bluemetal77

Hi Guys!

Just wanted an opinion. I have completed 155 hours of the "break-in" period on my Samsung D8000 Plasma TV (its a 2011 model). I've used the low settings and also the RGB slides intermittently to achieve these hours.


Do you think this is enough or shall i do the whole yard till 200 hours? I've played PS3 on it and am not a 6-hour gamer anyways - but so far none of the content i've watched on the TV has had any IR retention on the screen .. its faring well in my view.


Thanks for any support! Cheers!


----------



## sonyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluemetal77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22267397
> 
> 
> Hi Guys!
> 
> Just wanted an opinion. I have completed 155 hours of the "break-in" period on my Samsung D8000 Plasma TV (its a 2011 model). I've used the low settings and also the RGB slides intermittently to achieve these hours.
> 
> Do you think this is enough or shall i do the whole yard till 200 hours? I've played PS3 on it and am not a 6-hour gamer anyways - but so far none of the content i've watched on the TV has had any IR retention on the screen .. its faring well in my view.
> 
> Thanks for any support! Cheers!



I have the humble E450 and I never did any of that break-in stuff.

Left it on 10 days straight.

No IR issues at all and I pause the DVR all the time.

From day one with the Cell Light at it's max of 20 and set to 'Movie' mode.

Brightness 50 daytime / 40 for evening and 35 for a dark room

Contrast 100 daytime / 97 for evening and 93 for a dark room

Sharpness 0


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonyfan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22267457
> 
> 
> I have the humble E450 and I never did any of that break-in stuff.
> 
> Left it on 10 days straight.
> 
> No IR issues at all and I pause the DVR all the time.
> 
> From day one with the Cell Light at it's max of 20 and set to 'Movie' mode.
> 
> Brightness 50 daytime / 40 for evening and 35 for a dark room
> 
> Contrast 100 daytime / 97 for evening and 93 for a dark room
> 
> Sharpness 0



Yeah i guess i've had enuf of the low settings.. I'm gonna put it up on the calibrated movie mode.


My plasma is in a media room (or so we call it) so mostly the light remains the same in the room (darkish) .. we can open up a window blind but its never direct sunlight so my brightness/cell light can remain the same between time of the day or night. Yes if its at night and the light is closed as well - i can see i would be happier with a lower brightness.


I have my calibrated settings as follows:

- Brightness: 45

- Contrast: 95

- Cell light: 8

- Sharpness: 20

- Color: 50

- G-R Ratio: 55-45

- Color temp: Warm1

- Color gammut: Auto

- White balance: Auto

- White 10p: Off

- Dynamic contrast: Off

- Edge enhc: Off

- Cinema motion: Off

- Dynamic black: Dark

- Gamma: 0

- Noise reduction: Off

- Mpeg noise: Off


I noticed your cell light was at 20 .. if i do that the room doesn't need any more light .. its too bright! .. so i guess my settings give me a bright enough picture (i'm not a fan of too bright). I think also having the cell light low reduces power consumption.


Great no more break-in then


----------



## sonyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluemetal77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22267539
> 
> 
> Yeah i guess i've had enuf of the low settings.. I'm gonna put it up on the calibrated movie mode.
> 
> My plasma is in a media room (or so we call it) so mostly the light remains the same in the room (darkish) .. we can open up a window blind but its never direct sunlight so my brightness/cell light can remain the same between time of the day or night. Yes if its at night and the light is closed as well - i can see i would be happier with a lower brightness.
> 
> I have my calibrated settings as follows:
> 
> - Brightness: 45
> 
> - Contrast: 95
> 
> - Cell light: 8
> 
> - Sharpness: 20
> 
> - Color: 50
> 
> - G-R Ratio: 55-45
> 
> - Color temp: Warm1
> 
> - Color gammut: Auto
> 
> - White balance: Auto
> 
> - White 10p: Off
> 
> - Dynamic contrast: Off
> 
> - Edge enhc: Off
> 
> - Cinema motion: Off
> 
> - Dynamic black: Dark
> 
> - Gamma: 0
> 
> - Noise reduction: Off
> 
> - Mpeg noise: Off
> 
> I noticed your cell light was at 20 .. if i do that the room doesn't need any more light .. its too bright! .. so i guess my settings give me a bright enough picture (i'm not a fan of too bright). I think also having the cell light low reduces power consumption.
> 
> Great no more break-in then



You need at least 500 hours before you start to get the 'real'

potential of your picture quality.

That's why I recommend to leave it on 24/7.

I left mine on the HD Tru and ID channels when not watching

they have opaque logos and no black bar programing.

If people around you complain explain:

it's like a fine wine that has to age a little.

It's only temporary, don't have a cow man.


Brightness and Contrast are the main two to fiddle with.

I watch mostly at night in the dark and once your eyes

and brain get used to it these plasmas look sick, I mean that in a good way.


Cell light should be set to max and left that way.

Cell light is just a holdover from the menu on the LCD/LED sets and it's how Sammy gets

low energy star ratings buy turning it way down is the default.

Adjust Brightness, Contrast and even Gamma if you want.


Sharpness is anything but that. it's just another contrast control and it adds artifacts.

Turn it to 0 and the brightness goes down slightly and you get clean looking detail.


your Dynamic black should be at the max for the best blacks


G-R Ratio: 55-45 (are you sure about this?

try it at 50/50 for a while.


----------



## Burned




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Burned*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22257919
> 
> 
> Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.
> 
> So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.
> 
> Now my TV is most likely ruined.
> 
> My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?



So here we are several days later. I've avoided gaming completely, I've had the set on for easily 70 hours running full screen high def content at the same settings that caused the IR. Which BTW are Panasonic's DEFAULT game mode settings. The IR has faded somewhat. It is still visible during most content, but I admit I have to look for a bit sometimes before it pops out. It's still very visible against solid backgrounds in any lighter color. I just got a copy of the WOW DVD today, and have run about 2 hours of pixel flipper with no change.

I'm going to give it some time, but I'm not happy at all with Panasonic, and I feel it's justified. The default gaming settings are irresponsibly bright with MAXED (as in 100%) contrast. They ship these units with preset settings that WILL cause IR, and there is insufficient warning about the possibility of panel damage.


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Burned*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22270464
> 
> 
> So here we are several days later. I've avoided gaming completely, I've had the set on for easily 70 hours running full screen high def content at the same settings that caused the IR. Which BTW are Panasonic's DEFAULT game mode settings. The IR has faded somewhat. It is still visible during most content, but I admit I have to look for a bit sometimes before it pops out. It's still very visible against solid backgrounds in any lighter color. I just got a copy of the WOW DVD today, and have run about 2 hours of pixel flipper with no change.
> 
> I'm going to give it some time, but I'm not happy at all with Panasonic, and I feel it's justified. The default gaming settings are irresponsibly bright with MAXED (as in 100%) contrast. They ship these units with preset settings that WILL cause IR, and there is insufficient warning about the possibility of panel damage.



Very odd. IR should not have happened .. its probably not a BURN IN .. just Image Retention anyways .. but yeah weird that it happened.


I agree, the Game Mode has such high Brightness/Contrast and Cell Light values .. first of all i can't be playing with such brightness coming at my face .. i toned it down just like i did with my normal TV viewing .. so you should have done that too ..


I don't know which game lasts that long on 1 screen though .. don't you take breaks or switch menus or stuff? .. You should do that for ergonomics if not anything else ..


Secondly there are a lot of anti-image burn features in TV's these days .. the Samsung i have has a pixel shift which i've turned on for every 4 minutes .. this will ensure the image on the screen shifts slightly every now n then so that not the exact phosphors would burn .. it could be called Image Orbiting or something in yours ..


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonyfan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22268911
> 
> 
> You need at least 500 hours before you start to get the 'real'
> 
> potential of your picture quality.
> 
> That's why I recommend to leave it on 24/7.
> 
> I left mine on the HD Tru and ID channels when not watching
> 
> they have opaque logos and no black bar programing.
> 
> If people around you complain explain:
> 
> it's like a fine wine that has to age a little.
> 
> It's only temporary, don't have a cow man.
> 
> 
> Brightness and Contrast are the main two to fiddle with.
> 
> I watch mostly at night in the dark and once your eyes
> 
> and brain get used to it these plasmas look sick, I mean that in a good way.
> 
> 
> Cell light should be set to max and left that way.
> 
> Cell light is just a holdover from the menu on the LCD/LED sets and it's how Sammy gets
> 
> low energy star ratings buy turning it way down is the default.
> 
> Adjust Brightness, Contrast and even Gamma if you want.
> 
> Sharpness is anything but that. it's just another contrast control and it adds artifacts.
> 
> Turn it to 0 and the brightness goes down slightly and you get clean looking detail.
> 
> 
> your Dynamic black should be at the max for the best blacks
> 
> G-R Ratio: 55-45 (are you sure about this?
> 
> try it at 50/50 for a while.



500 hours for the picture to settle - yes.. not for break-in period ..


Cell light to max? Are you kidding me? If i do that the TV has so much light i could see it under the sun and wouldn't need the lights in the room .. and i pay my own bills .. thank you i'll keep it low.


Yes G-R 55-45 is what I like .. the Color Temperature to Warm1 makes it enough red .. so this setting tones it down.


----------



## terzaghi

Just offering another perspective, I've been gaming on my 65Vt30 for 8 months with no problems.


----------



## sonyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluemetal77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22270756
> 
> 
> 500 hours for the picture to settle - yes.. not for break-in period ..



aren't settle and break-in are the same thing?

the phospers have to age at least 500 hrs.


----------



## Burned




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluemetal77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22270752
> 
> 
> Very odd. IR should not have happened .. its probably not a BURN IN .. just Image Retention anyways .. but yeah weird that it happened.
> 
> I agree, the Game Mode has such high Brightness/Contrast and Cell Light values .. first of all i can't be playing with such brightness coming at my face .. i toned it down just like i did with my normal TV viewing .. so you should have done that too ..
> 
> I don't know which game lasts that long on 1 screen though .. don't you take breaks or switch menus or stuff? .. You should do that for ergonomics if not anything else ..
> 
> Secondly there are a lot of anti-image burn features in TV's these days .. the Samsung i have has a pixel shift which i've turned on for every 4 minutes .. this will ensure the image on the screen shifts slightly every now n then so that not the exact phosphors would burn .. it could be called Image Orbiting or something in yours ..



Pixel orbiter was turned on. The game was an FPS with fixed HUD elements. I ran the wow disc pixel flipper overnight, and I could swear it made things worse. It makes me ill even to look at it.


----------



## Michael2000

What is the story with IR with the 2012 Panasonic ;plasmas?


* Cnet reports persistent IR on the Panny plasmas, compared to none for the Samsung plasma.


* Some 2011 panny customers are reporting WORSE IR after 1000 hours.


* Some people report IR lasting days, weeks and even months.


* Some people report only seconds worth of IR, and don't seem to have any problems.


This makes no sense. Is there a schedule or ratio such as 30 minutes of static image to 30 minutes of moving image? I'd like to use it with a HTPC, perhaps some web browsing, but I can't get any idea of what is acceptaible, if any.


Michael


----------



## David_B

IR is more visible when the screen brightness is set high.


I believe those that don't see it have set their sets to low brightness and just don't see it because of that.


----------



## rahzel

This is getting blown out of proportion. Yes Panasonic Plasmas seem to be more prone to IR, but Cnet's test was pretty much a torture test.


Panasonic is clearly the more popular brand around here so there's bound to be more reports of IR issues. What about the hundreds or thousands of people that don't have IR issues?


----------



## slb

I fail to see why we need a separate thread to discuss an issue that is already being discussed in several other threads.


----------



## sonyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rahzel*  /t/1422962/lets-talk-ir-on-2012-panasonic-plasmas#post_22273532
> 
> 
> This is getting blown out of proportion. Yes Panasonic Plasmas seem to be more prone to IR, but Cnet's test was pretty much a torture test.



This review was not a 'torture test'.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance


----------



## sonyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slb*  /t/1422962/lets-talk-ir-on-2012-panasonic-plasmas#post_22273587
> 
> 
> I fail to see why we need a separate thread to discuss an issue that is already being discussed in several other threads.




Because it's preferable for the powers to be to bury the problem in a separate thread with a 127 pages about it.


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonyfan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22272181
> 
> 
> aren't settle and break-in are the same thing?
> 
> the phospers have to age at least 500 hrs.



Not sure where you're getting the 500 hours figure from - any search will either talk about 200 or 150 for the newer plasmas. The technology today is better than that of 10 years back. Burn-in is almost non-existent. Image retention, can and will happen on plasma but would be temporary.


From my research (only) - no, settling and break-in is different. Break-in allowing the tv to run at lower settings so that excessive brightness/contrast don't burn the exponentially ageing phosphors in colors .. as people and techies have confirmed .. the exponential age/burn almost peaks at around 150-200 hours .. you can then turn up the brightness/contrast .. and it could take any number of more hours to settle in the new calibration but there won't be any noticeable difference in picture (not like you'll see a sudden change on the 501th hour) but i would agree that you might need to tweak your settings in a few months for a reality check. Also since the initial phosphor burn has now peaked, any bright image/logo - extended display of static picture/emblem etc won't permanently burn in. Or at least that's what we hope for


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Burned*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3780#post_22273077
> 
> 
> Pixel orbiter was turned on. The game was an FPS with fixed HUD elements. I ran the wow disc pixel flipper overnight, and I could swear it made things worse. It makes me ill even to look at it.



Oh yeah man .. i know how it hurts when you see something wrong with your tv and it reflects in other viewing material .. you feel like throwing it away and getting a new one .. or just doing something to fix it!


Did you try running the break-in images? Just google it .. its a set of full hd images in the RGB shades. My friend had a similar problem (on his 2009 plasma) and he had run the DVD (with the same images) on it for about a week or so .. all gone after that. I'd run it off a USB because if the dvd gets stuck you'll end up with 1 color image for a long time (say if you went to sleep or something).


I think it should go away .. will take its time.


That's why i dont play fps games.. only car racing and a few others .. hehe


----------



## rahzel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonyfan*  /t/1422962/lets-talk-ir-on-2012-panasonic-plasmas#post_22273624
> 
> 
> This review was not a 'torture test'.
> http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sonyfan*  /t/1422962/lets-talk-ir-on-2012-panasonic-plasmas#post_22273624
> 
> 
> This review was not a 'torture test'.
> http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance


And, what's your point? David doesn't classify the Panasonics as being bad. Yes you might see some IR on solid colored screens, but so what? It will fade fairly quickly.


Some people are just too paranoid about IR. As I said, it varies from panel to panel but generally shouldn't be a problem unless you actually make an attempt to look for it. Some panels seem to get IR very easily, but I would classify those as being a faulty panel. Several of us Panasonic owners have no issues with IR.


----------



## Michael2000

So if you leave a fairly bright static image on the screen for an hour, how long would it take to go away? I use an HTPC, so any image retention would be visible.


Michael


----------



## nyislesfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rahzel*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22273532
> 
> 
> This is getting blown out of proportion. Yes Panasonic Plasmas seem to be more prone to IR, but Cnet's test was pretty much a torture test.
> 
> Panasonic is clearly the more popular brand around here so there's bound to be more reports of IR issues. *What about the hundreds or thousands of people that don't have IR issues?*



Add me to this camp. I have a 2011 Panasonic ST30. No problems with IR. If I do a long Marathon run of something like ESPN, History Channel or True TV with their bright opaque logo's, I sometimes notice IR on a sold commercial background that fades in literally a few seconds. Nothing has ever lasted longer then 5 or 10 seconds I'm guessing. I have never stop watched it. I don't worry about it at all. Image quality is awesome.


----------



## sheshechic

I think it's time for a new Part III sticky on this topic since so much has changed, some links in the first post lead to no where and I believe it is scaring more people than informing them.


----------



## sheshechic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rahzel*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22273532
> 
> 
> This is getting blown out of proportion. Yes Panasonic Plasmas seem to be more prone to IR, but Cnet's test was pretty much a torture test.
> 
> Panasonic is clearly the more popular brand around here so there's bound to be more reports of IR issues. What about the hundreds or thousands of people that don't have IR issues?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyislesfan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22284294
> 
> 
> Add me to this camp. I have a 2011 Panasonic ST30. No problems with IR. If I do a long Marathon run of something like ESPN, History Channel or True TV with their bright opaque logo's, I sometimes notice IR on a sold commercial background that fades in literally a few seconds. Nothing has ever lasted longer then 5 or 10 seconds I'm guessing. I have never stop watched it. I don't worry about it at all. Image quality is awesome.



+1 from a GT50 owner. I have yet to see any IR from a seated position, however football preseason is about to begin on Thursday here, sooo... we shall see- eh? I will honestly report what I see or don't see.


----------



## Hake0015

So I bought a 55gt30 and was scared to use the thing too much to cause burn in. I installed the luminance patch, firmware update and broke it in not with slides which I still don't know what is, but with full screen programming. It's been 6 months and everything semi static on ESPN is burned in. The geek squad guy came in today to see what he could do. He said every plasma will burn in and there is pretty much nothing you can do to prevent it. What is going on here. There is no way this product can be like this. Panasonic does not cover burn-in in their warranty. Doesn't this sound like a problem in of itself? I've read everything on here and need a little reassurance. The picture on this GT30 is the best I've seen.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hake0015*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22288053
> 
> 
> So I bought a 55gt30 and was scared to use the thing too much to cause burn in. I installed the luminance patch, firmware update and broke it in not with slides which I still don't know what is, but with full screen programming. It's been 6 months and everything semi static on ESPN is burned in. The geek squad guy came in today to see what he could do. He said every plasma will burn in and there is pretty much nothing you can do to prevent it. What is going on here. There is no way this product can be like this. Panasonic does not cover burn-in in their warranty. Doesn't this sound like a problem in of itself? I've read everything on here and need a little reassurance. The picture on this GT30 is the best I've seen.


Is the image retention visible during normal viewing or only on solid color screens? How long have you been able to see it and has it gotten any better?


----------



## jstenuf

I understand that setting contrast and brightness to 50% is one of the steps in the breakin process. Do you start the breakin process in the "out of the box" mode or do you use a different setting?


Thanks.


----------



## jstenuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstenuf*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22288556
> 
> 
> I understand that setting contrast and brightness to 50% is one of the steps in the breakin process. Do you start the breakin process in the "out of the box" mode or do you use a different setting?
> 
> Thanks.



Nobody has an answer?


----------



## oztech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstenuf*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22323145
> 
> 
> Nobody has an answer?



Out of the box mode is to hot thats why the try at 50 settings but to set it up correctly you can pay to have a calibrator do it or you can pick up DVE,WOW or Spears&Munsil disc and start setting the picture you can also download and burn AVSHD.


----------



## jstenuf

Thank you!


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstenuf*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22288556
> 
> 
> I understand that setting contrast and brightness to 50% is one of the steps in the breakin process. Do you start the breakin process in the "out of the box" mode or do you use a different setting?
> 
> Thanks.



There should be a mode equivalent to "Movie" in almost all TV's, you should first switch to that mode and then lower the contrast/brightness. This mode is closest to the true representation of colors an actual movie/scene would look like. Everything else i feel like is a PC Monitor picture which is not how TVs should look like!


----------



## jstenuf

My understanding of the break in process calls for a 50% reduction in the contrast a brightness. This proceedure is completely different: http://allhighdef.com/2011/01/05/general-plasma-hdtv-break-in-procedure/ 


Please review and comment.


----------



## bluemetal77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstenuf*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22335685
> 
> 
> My understanding of the break in process calls for a 50% reduction in the contrast a brightness. This proceedure is completely different: http://allhighdef.com/2011/01/05/general-plasma-hdtv-break-in-procedure/
> 
> Please review and comment.



Correct.


But in the post/link above, the poster is asking you to run the slides/break-in image at a "dynamic or vivid" picture setting, but watch normal tv with a reduced brightness/contrast. The idea is to age the phosphors in the plasma evenly .. running constant color slides at a high setting will do that evenly .. whereas running it on high setting for normal tv content will not age it evenly and you have the chance of the odd logo being burned in accidentally .. so watching normal tv at reduced settings would not promote burn-in or image retention or uneven ageing of plasma phosphors ..


Cheers!


----------



## javygonx

Hi to all. I started today the burn-in process on my Panasonic TC-65PST30. Because I was unable to find a blank dvd at home what I did was to download the .jpg colors from a website that have them in .iso, in .jpg format and for S-VCD and put in on a SD Card. What Im not sure its if those .jpg do the same job as for the .iso DVD.


Second is that the burn-in images files has 20 different .jpgs. I beleive is 5 tones of grey, 5 of red, 5 of green, and 5 of blue. But there's no full white and full black jpg. Are those 2 colors not necessary?


Third; I setup the slideshow to change pics every 30 seconds; its that ok or just I should setup to change pics after 15 secs or 1 min?


And last: My settings are standard; so CATS are OFF, Contrast and Brightness was 50; but I lowered it to 45; All other stuff are OFF like NR, Motion, etc... ITs that ok?


Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## jstenuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluemetal77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22336007
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> But in the post/link above, the poster is asking you to run the slides/break-in image at a "dynamic or vivid" picture setting, but watch normal tv with a reduced brightness/contrast. The idea is to age the phosphors in the plasma evenly .. running constant color slides at a high setting will do that evenly .. whereas running it on high setting for normal tv content will not age it evenly and you have the chance of the odd logo being burned in accidentally .. so watching normal tv at reduced settings would not promote burn-in or image retention or uneven ageing of plasma phosphors ..
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks for the response. My concern is running the slides in the "Vivid" mode which is contrary to other proceedures I have read.


----------



## Aliens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aliens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3720#post_22070306
> 
> 
> This is a real pisser. Custom mode with Contrast initially set to 75, then after 2 weeks reduced to 50.
> 
> 
> I've had my Panny 65GT30 since the first of February. The IR (I'm hoping that is all this is and not burn-in) that you see (bar just below the top of the screen and above the bottom) is from Morning Joe on MSNBC. I watch from 6-7:15 M-F, and the longest time before a commercial break is 20 minutes. That I would get IR so easily when there are lots of commercial breaks is really puzzling. Hours on end of continual bars I can see, but not when the image is often changed. And this is an off-white bar, not a bright, bleached, white bar. I have an '03 Panny plasma that has never given me an IR problem and I did everything, except play games, to that thing from the very beginning. So far I've run the Disney WOW for 4 consecutive hours and no change. I'll run it all day tomorrow to see if I can get rid of it. From what I've read I understand it can take some time to remove this. I hope.



It appears that in the 3 months since I made that post, the IR is slowly, and I mean slowly, receding. Being as I had the panel calibrated a week prior to the initial post, I was reluctant to run a white screen or patterns for hundreds of hours to try and eliminate the IR. I decided to watch TV as I normally do and let time run its course. Hopefully, by early next year the remaining IR will be gone.


One thing I do every morning when I watch Joe, being as this is where I aquired the IR, is to turn the setting to standard, which really darkens the screen. I’ll do this until the IR is gone.


The left pic is from May and the right was taken yesterday.


----------



## SHOWM3URBO0BYZ

hey guys i know you guys probly hear this question every day but im going to be buying the Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST50 this week or next. i do not have cable because i just moved.Do you recommend using a break in dvd like http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm or do you have any other suggestions. Thanks in advance


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SHOWM3URBO0BYZ*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3810#post_22350707
> 
> 
> hey guys i know you guys probly hear this question every day but im going to be buying the Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST50 this week or next. i do not have cable because i just moved.Do you recommend using a break in dvd like http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm or do you have any other suggestions. Thanks in advance


I have two Panasonic plasmas (one from 2006 and one from 2010) and didn't do anything special with either of them except to keep brightness and contrast to about 50% for the first 100 hours. I've never had a problem with persistent image retention or burn-in. They get IR, all plasmas I've seen do, but it's never been visible with normal viewing and it fades quickly so it's never been an issue for me. I really don't understand why people get freaked out by a little IR when you can only see it on a blank screen and don't notice it with normal viewing. Enjoy your new TV.


----------



## SHOWM3URBO0BYZ

thanks yeah plus what i like about it is that it has the ant retention feautere doesnt really bother me as long as it goes away. I was also reading that some plasmas will shift set pictures around a couple pixels automatically. and for the first 100 hours are you supposed to keep it on for 100 hours or split it up ?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3800_50#post_22273587
> 
> 
> I fail to see why we need a separate thread to discuss an issue that is already being discussed in several other threads.



Which thread are you referrng to? All burn in, IR should be posted here as this is the official, sticky thread for this topic.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sheshechic*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3800_50#post_22286999
> 
> 
> I think it's time for a new Part III sticky on this topic since so much has changed, some links in the first post lead to no where and I believe it is scaring more people than informing them.



I don't think there is a need for another sticky on this topic, we can edit previous posts to keep this current. I have edited the first post to take out the link to the old Panny information.


----------



## cpluse

So i final got my 55VT50, this tread had me on the edge of my seat. But i started the day it was setup and had the DVD started as soon as my first power on.


THen after 5 hours had to see a blue ray. Wow This is 1000 better looking the the 2 LG6700 i had to replace because of bleeding.


No IR or Burn in after watching. So back to multi color. I wake up to change the setting back. I had it on Vivid.


Then i went to a high THX, i could see the Menu's but i had to get really close. So i no worries. Left the Color Burn-In for about 8 hour while i went to work. Someone was home for any emergency.


But now it gone. Im try to leave low and high for burn in. I hope it works. But wow out of the box it looks amazing. I cant wait until hockey and all sport start.


Thank again to every one who made this process allot easier. I learn allot in this thread even thou it made me nervous top.


----------



## NIGHT-

I've had my GT50 for about 2 to 2 1/2 months now. For the longest amount of time it was the perfect tv. I ran the slides and kept content to full screen for the first couple weeks. I started gaming a little bit after that and had no issues with IR. I've been doing that cycle since then and lately I'm starting to get lots and lots of IR. I have a EA logo that still hasn't faded away from a 3 hour game of NCAA a week ago. I've ran the pixel flipper, the IR bar on the tv and even ran the slides again for a while. It still won't completely go away. I get fades of IR just from browsing netflix.. I don't get it, it was perfect until a week ago... I usually run the tv on THX mode or game mode with the pixel orbiter on. Any ideas? I really want this EA logo gone. It's faded a lot but still very noticeable. I really am kinda wishing I would of got a LED/LCD


----------



## Jawzey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NIGHT-*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22366368
> 
> 
> I've had my GT50 for about 2 to 2 1/2 months now. For the longest amount of time it was the perfect tv. I ran the slides and kept content to full screen for the first couple weeks. I started gaming a little bit after that and had no issues with IR. I've been doing that cycle since then and lately I'm starting to get lots and lots of IR. I have a EA logo that still hasn't faded away from a 3 hour game of NCAA a week ago. I've ran the pixel flipper, the IR bar on the tv and even ran the slides again for a while. It still won't completely go away. I get fades of IR just from browsing netflix.. I don't get it, it was perfect until a week ago... I usually run the tv on THX mode or game mode with the pixel orbiter on. Any ideas? I really want this EA logo gone. It's faded a lot but still very noticeable. I really am kinda wishing I would of got a LED/LCD



Try to keep your brightness and contrast at least under 70 when gaming. Don't say that you wish you purchased LED/LCD. The problems you would most likely experience with those sets would not outweigh the one problem that is wrong with PDP, and that problem with PDP can be eliminated if the set is used in the correct way. I have a post on one of the threads on the first page titled "UT50 Burn In" or something along the lines of that. I posted my steps to eliminating IR, so take a look at that if you want further help with your IR problem. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Iceberg86300

So my roomate just got a Pany TC-p60gt50.


No break in or anything. Don't think he read the manual, I will be reading it tonight. He is using it mostly for gaming, a PC monitor once a week for a bit, and movies.


Looks like there is ghosting from the windows icons and video UI. How do you tell if this is burn or IR?


Also, a question about breaking in the TV and getting rid of IR. I took an ISF class many years ago and was told plasmas should be "seasoned" and the instructors advised that when not viewing movies or what not that a 40-60 IRE grayscale full screen. Is this still common practice or is the "break in DVD" the big ticket now?


I was also told by my instructors that if IR were to occur then just throw up a grayscale full screen again when you were not watching the display. Is this common practice as well?


Hoping I don't have to tell him he cooked his brand new TV. The images are hardly visible normally, but with a white screen they are clearly there. (As in I never noticed them until the white background was in place.


So what do you guys recommend? ISF is premier in vid calibrations (as if I needed to tell you guys







) So I'm thinking of having him go for the grayscale test pattern unless the break in dvd has advantages.


And to reiterate, how can you tell if something is burned in or just IR? Wait it out? optical inspection?


I did just get him to turn down the brightness and contrast so hopefully that will curtail any more IR, (or burn in)


Regards,


Steve


----------



## WilliamR

As to your first question, it is IR, burn in takes a LONG time with the same image up for weeks and weeks. Burn in means it is permanent and this almost never occurs, yuo may get stubborn IR on sub par sets and such but you can eventually get IR to go away. To many people use burn in when this doesn't even occur on sets in stores that are on for weeks and weeks at a time.


----------



## Iceberg86300

William, that will be a relief for him. Me too because will probably go downstairs now, as we just found out that our Sony LCD that was crapping bad TV for 30 minutes after power on has actually gotten attention from Sony and should hopefully be getting a new LCD panel or replacement TV.


Thanks for the response.


Is running a50 to 60 ire grayscale ok for IR reduction ok? Or better to use the DVD at the beginning of this post? As I said my ISF training was quite a long time ago.


Regards,


Steve


----------



## RSTitleExaminer

Well, I wanted to share my boneheaded story, and hopefully get a little reassurance. I got my Panasonic P60ST50 at around 9:00 a.m. this past Saturday (September 15th), and I wanted to watch a little football on my new display, so I switched it over to ESPN. I'm sure you can see where this is going.


I just didn't think about ESPN's "bottom line". The thing is constantly on the screen, even during commercials. I have a habit of leaving the TV on as background noise, while doing chores, surfing the net, etc. Well, next thing I know, it's 4:30 p.m., and I've had it on ESPN for 6 hours. Also, coming from a Samsung PN59D7000 on which I watched what I wanted, when I wanted for as long as I wanted, I really didn't think about IR. Well, the ESPN logo stuck.


I've owned the display for a little over a hundred hours or so, and it's probably been on for about 70. I've ran the scroll bar for about 24 hours total, along with watching various full screen content, and not watching ESPN at all. It's very faded, and the only time I can see the faded "ESPN" logo is on my PS3 start menu, and only when there's a pink colored background. I don't see it on anything else.


I can of course, try to return it, but seeing as all the research I've read states that it will go away, eventually, I think I'm gonna see if I can wait it out. Hell, I'm halfway through the break in period. I want to get this thing calibrated ASAP.


----------



## swtguy

My wife watches ABC non stop and their stupid logo is stuck on the bottom right of the screen now.







What do I need to do to get this off? It's a panasonic plasma. I tried the white bar thing built into the tv and it didnt really help...


Oh and I ran the plasma break in thats linked at the top of this thread for 4 hours... it didnt fix it.


----------



## mailiang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swtguy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22444397
> 
> 
> My wife watches ABC non stop and their stupid logo is stuck on the bottom right of the screen now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do I need to do to get this off? It's a panasonic plasma. I tried the white bar thing built into the tv and it didnt really help...
> 
> Oh and I ran the plasma break in thats linked at the top of this thread for 4 hours... it didnt fix it.




If you can, run a white snowy picture in the vivid mode for several hours a day. I had a similar issue last year with the YES channel score ticker when I was watching nothing but ball games for a week and it worked for me. Now that my set has more mileage on it and I watch plenty of mixed full screen content, it is no longer an issue. Also, make sure your brightness and contrast is calibrated properly.




Ian


----------



## RSTitleExaminer

Well, my IR came out, eventually. I went into the service menu to run the scrolling bar for a couple of days, along with avoiding anything at all with logos, tickers, and watching nothing but full screen content. It took about 75 hours to get rid of that ESPN logo.


But, now, after having my display professionally calibrated after I hit 200 hours, I do get a bit of IR, but a ten minute run with the Scroll Bar through the user menu totally clears it up.


----------



## Haseeb

What is the best method to burn-in the new VT50? I just bought a 55 inch VT50. It will be delivered on Tuesday.


Is DVD the best way to go? Are there any good patterns available online for this? What is the detailed process for it? Can I watch the TV at all until burn-in is complete?


I am sure these issues have been addressed before. Just point me to it. Thanks!


----------



## fcwdev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Haseeb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22492805
> 
> 
> What is the best method to burn-in the new VT50? I just bought a 55 inch VT50. It will be delivered on Tuesday.
> 
> Is DVD the best way to go? Are there any good patterns available online for this? What is the detailed process for it? Can I watch the TV at all until burn-in is complete?
> 
> I am sure these issues have been addressed before. Just point me to it. Thanks!



Do NOT use a DVD in case it stops playing unexpectedly. I used Slides on an SD card side loaded into the TV. You can watch TV, but turn your Contrast way down. For example, I used Cinema Mode with Contrast at 20 to 30. It looks awful at first, but you get used to it.


----------



## Bobandy

Hi. I use my VT50 as a monitor for my pc. Have notised a line on the screen, where the adressbar is on firefox, that is lagging behind when watching movies, gifs or scrolling fast. And also not that long ago i notised another one in the middle of the screen.

It goes over the whole screen. The tv is a few months old. Could this be the pc HDMI-out's fault? Because I tried watching a clip with a SD card, and there was no line of delay.

But when running the scroll bar, i can see trace of firefox's navigation bar.

If i can fix this by running the built in scroll bar, how long should i run it?


I guess i always have to use F11 from now on.


I hope this is the right thread


----------



## mkaz527

Hi

I've had the 65"GT30 for about 3 months. Waited for about 150 hours before playing any video games on the set. Made the "mistake" of playing Madden 13, and now I'm dealing with some serious IR which I think may be permanent burn in. First, I'm not a plasma newbie. I've owned my other plasma for about 8 years and have had no issues. I'd say that I played Madden for a combine 12-15 hours over a 3 week period (it was new, I was into it). Now, I can't seem to shake the EA SPORTS logo in the upper right. Thankfully, it's out of normal line of sight, but horrendously aggravating. I've run a series of tools to try and rid it, and while it's not as bad as it was when it first happended (about 3 weeks ago), it's very noticiable during light colored sequences. I'd say I've probably run a combo of static (both black and white and colored) and white screens with that area blacked out to try and "even things out." Has anyone else had serious IR that persists this long with this set? At this point, I fear it's permanent and that I'll just have to learn to live with it. Hoping that it continues to fade over time. Last question: Is an all-white screen the best method to try and blot this out? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. I know this is mostly my fault. I didn't switch out of THX mode which meant that the pixel orbiter wasn't on, didn't realize that that feature didn't exist in that mode. Thanks, all!


----------



## fcwdev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22525190
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I've had the 65"GT30 for about 3 months. Waited for about 150 hours before playing any video games on the set. Made the "mistake" of playing Madden 13, and now I'm dealing with some serious IR which I think may be permanent burn in. First, I'm not a plasma newbie. I've owned my other plasma for about 8 years and have had no issues. I'd say that I played Madden for a combine 12-15 hours over a 3 week period (it was new, I was into it). Now, I can't seem to shake the EA SPORTS logo in the upper right. Thankfully, it's out of normal line of sight, but horrendously aggravating. I've run a series of tools to try and rid it, and while it's not as bad as it was when it first happended (about 3 weeks ago), it's very noticiable during light colored sequences. I'd say I've probably run a combo of static (both black and white and colored) and white screens with that area blacked out to try and "even things out." Has anyone else had serious IR that persists this long with this set? At this point, I fear it's permanent and that I'll just have to learn to live with it. Hoping that it continues to fade over time. Last question: Is an all-white screen the best method to try and blot this out? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. I know this is mostly my fault. I didn't switch out of THX mode which meant that the pixel orbiter wasn't on, didn't realize that that feature didn't exist in that mode. Thanks, all!



I've had the best luck with an all white screen (on vivid max contrast) on my VT30. I've noticed bad IR on this TV. The only thing I wonder about the all white screen is that it may be invoking the ABL(Auto Brightness Limiter), which may be prolonging your recovery since it's probably not as bright as the EA SPORTS logo. For me, some fade away in a few hours, but some take a few days and some I can still see faint traces. For some IRs I've considered just creating a slide with a solid white blob (faded in) for that area to get maximum brightness (of course that may lead to it's own IR ... but it may be better than EA SPORTS).


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22525190
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I've had the 65"GT30 for about 3 months. Waited for about 150 hours before playing any video games on the set. Made the "mistake" of playing Madden 13, and now I'm dealing with some serious IR which I think may be permanent burn in. First, I'm not a plasma newbie. I've owned my other plasma for about 8 years and have had no issues. I'd say that I played Madden for a combine 12-15 hours over a 3 week period (it was new, I was into it). Now, I can't seem to shake the EA SPORTS logo in the upper right. Thankfully, it's out of normal line of sight, but horrendously aggravating. I've run a series of tools to try and rid it, and while it's not as bad as it was when it first happended (about 3 weeks ago), it's very noticiable during light colored sequences. I'd say I've probably run a combo of static (both black and white and colored) and white screens with that area blacked out to try and "even things out." Has anyone else had serious IR that persists this long with this set? At this point, I fear it's permanent and that I'll just have to learn to live with it. Hoping that it continues to fade over time. Last question: Is an all-white screen the best method to try and blot this out? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. I know this is mostly my fault. I didn't switch out of THX mode which meant that the pixel orbiter wasn't on, didn't realize that that feature didn't exist in that mode. Thanks, all!



I believe that a full white screen would probably be the best way. Xrox wrote this post some 4 years ago and which has been cited here many times without disapproval:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1098368/bb-sales-telling-me-of-kuro-burn-in/0_60#post_15415403 


I quote one section which appears most apposite to your situation:

_*3 - MgO Sputtering - High energy discharge in Plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels. The result is a long lasting ghost image that can take many days to remove. It can be seen as a slightly darker image on a full white screen. Ironically, a full white screen for many hours is the best course of action to resolve this issue as it normalized the deposition of MgO to all pixels (evens it out)
*_


Now when I read this at a previous time, I decided to dig a bit in google scholar and there were various peer-reviewed articles discussing this phenomenon and ways were discussed as to how to ameliorate or clear this issue. I found this paper which seems on point:

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/solutions%20to%20remove%20a%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20in%20an%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf 


I quote:

_When displaying the square-type image with peak

luminance for a long time in a plasma display panel

TV, the image sticking appears even in the non-

discharge cells adjacent to the discharge cells, which

is called boundary image sticking. The boundary im-

age sticking phenomenon is predominantly due to

the redeposition of the Mg species on the MgO layer

in the nondischarge region adjacent to the discharge

region. We have proposed three methods than can be

used to remove boundary image sticking. The first is

to completely recover the boundary image sticking

cells by means of full white-aging process.
_


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcwdev*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22525441
> 
> 
> I've had the best luck with an all white screen (on vivid max contrast) on my VT30. I've noticed bad IR on this TV. The only thing I wonder about the all white screen is that it may be invoking the ABL(Auto Brightness Limiter), which may be prolonging your recovery since it's probably not as bright as the EA SPORTS logo. For me, some fade away in a few hours, but some take a few days and some I can still see faint traces. For some IRs I've considered just creating a slide with a solid white blob (faded in) for that area to get maximum brightness (of course that may lead to it's own IR ... but t may be better than EA SPORTS).



Regarding the ABL issue, my thoughts were the choice was either a scrolling bar which does not result in the ABL being triggered (but the white only being there for less than say 50% of the time as is the case with the Panasonic scroll bar) or a full white abl-limited image. I thought that the latter might be better as white will be on to a greater extent than there would be diminishment of the output by abl. The question then is how does the image retention respond to a broad variety of intensities of light. Is it linear (which I doubt) or is it something else? I don't know.


----------



## mkaz527




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeterG*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22525484
> 
> 
> I believe that a full white screen would probably be the best way. Xrox wrote this post some 4 years ago and which has been cited here many times without disapproval:
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1098368/bb-sales-telling-me-of-kuro-burn-in/0_60#post_15415403
> 
> I quote one section which appears most apposite to your situation:
> _*3 - MgO Sputtering - High energy discharge in Plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels. The result is a long lasting ghost image that can take many days to remove. It can be seen as a slightly darker image on a full white screen. Ironically, a full white screen for many hours is the best course of action to resolve this issue as it normalized the deposition of MgO to all pixels (evens it out)
> *_
> 
> Now when I read this at a previous time, I decided to dig a bit in google scholar and there were various peer-reviewed articles discussing this phenomenon and ways were discussed as to how to ameliorate or clear this issue. I found this paper which seems on point:
> http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/solutions%20to%20remove%20a%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20in%20an%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf
> 
> I quote:
> _When displaying the square-type image with peak
> 
> luminance for a long time in a plasma display panel
> 
> TV, the image sticking appears even in the non-
> 
> discharge cells adjacent to the discharge cells, which
> 
> is called boundary image sticking. The boundary im-
> 
> age sticking phenomenon is predominantly due to
> 
> the redeposition of the Mg species on the MgO layer
> 
> in the nondischarge region adjacent to the discharge
> 
> region. We have proposed three methods than can be
> 
> used to remove boundary image sticking. The first is
> 
> to completely recover the boundary image sticking
> 
> cells by means of full white-aging process.
> _



Thank you for the informative response. My hesitation was based on the potentially false notion that an all white screen would age the already agressively agend pixels even more and that from a relative basis, everything would look the same. But your post makes a lot of sense (even the science-y parts that I'm pretending to understand!). I'll give it a shot. Static really seems to be doing very little for me and the scrolling white bar seems too limited.


----------



## Mr. Glass

Hello,


After many hours of research and the helpful advice here on AVS, my 65VT50 arrives tomorrow and I want to be sure that I break it in properly.


I have been reading through this thread, but the 129 pages are a bit intimidating. Can someone point me in the right direction of the basic procedure/a list of what to avoid during the break in process?


Thanks!


-Glass


----------



## Seavie

Just bought the Samsung PN60E7000FF. Never owned a plasma before, but know about potential IR. Should I prep this in any way? If this has already been discussed, please point me in the right direction. Thank you.


----------



## Bob222

My 1 month old Panasonic 55VT50 has IR of the word "MENU" in the top left corner. It's from the TV's own menu. I guess I got it from constantly playing with the settings. It's very hard to see it but I know it's there. I can't seem to get rid of it completely. I have tried the Disney flipper for several hours over several days but it doesn't seem to be getting rid of it. Would this all white screen trick get rid of it? How bright should the white screen be and what should I put the contrast at the help eliminate it? Should I use the slides and just pause it for hours or maybe overnight? Thanks for any information.


----------



## mkaz527

I used the advice and research from PeterG. Went with an all white screen. I had tried everything, EVERYTHING, before that. Static, color slides, etc... Nothing worked. We're talking roughly 100 hours of static/snow/color screens, very little improvement. Used a whitescreen for 75 hours (was going for 100, but was cut short by Hurricane Sandy), on Vivid setting, max panel brightness, max brightness, max contrast. I probably chopped a few months of life off of the set. But it is the absoluetly ONLY thing that worked. This was to remove IR that was caused by a MAX of 12 hours of videogames over a two to three week period. The bright side, my panel should be a lot more durable going forward! Good luck. What a pain in the a$$.


----------



## Bob222

Thanks. I'm also using the advice of PeterG. I just started doing the all white screen thing today. I sure hope it works.


----------



## Bob222




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22572538
> 
> 
> I used the advice and research from PeterG. Went with an all white screen. I had tried everything, EVERYTHING, before that. Static, color slides, etc... Nothing worked. We're talking roughly 100 hours of static/snow/color screens, very little improvement. Used a whitescreen for 75 hours (was going for 100, but was cut short by Hurricane Sandy), on Vivid setting, max panel brightness, max brightness, max contrast. I probably chopped a few months of life off of the set. But it is the absoluetly ONLY thing that worked. This was to remove IR that was caused by a MAX of 12 hours of videogames over a two to three week period. The bright side, my panel should be a lot more durable going forward! Good luck. What a pain in the a$$.



By the way when you say 75 hours, is that 75 hours continuous? Or is it over a period of several days. Also, did you watch any regular programming during this time? I ran my white screen for about 6 hours today on vivid but I did not crank up the panel, contrast or brightness. No improvement yet. Thanks.


----------



## Millionaire2K

Ok so any claims that the 2012 Samsung TV’s don't have ir or burn are bogus. I bought the E8000 the week it came out. I did the suggested break in that many suggest to prevent ir or burn. Also I had my TV calibrated after the breaking period.


I watch CNN. I never kept the CNN logo on the TV (wide fit) for the first 3 months.


Well after 6 months I noticed that I have a stuck CNN logo on my TV. You can see it clearly with all white and green screens. Not an issue at all during normal watching.


I tried many things to “wash” away the logo and it is still there. After almost half a month of running different methods I decided to just live with it in hopes it will go away.


I just want to point out... SCREEN BURN AND IR IS REAL IN THE 2012 SAMSUNG TV"S


PS> Anyone think an inverted CNN logo on an all white, all green,blue and all red background as a slideshow will help fix this faster? If I take the exact CNN logo from my Tivo and invert it and put it on solid backgrounds and run it as a slide show over the exact location of the burn.


Do you think this could work?


----------



## mkaz527

It was 75 continuous hours. I did, however, watch some regular content in between (probably about 4-6 hours max). I was a little nervous because I was afraid the DVD player would stop and go back to the menu, causing an even bigger problem. Guess I got lucky. I'd say it's 80% not visible. Look long enough, and it appears. I believe with time, it will be completely invisible. I've owned plasmas for the past 7 years, this was the first time I thought it might stick. Be patient. Even after 48 hours on all white, I could still see the IR and almost gave up. The next 30 hours seemed to do the trick. Again, if it wasn't for the power outage, I think the last 25 would have completely "erased it." Needless to say, I won't be gaming on my screen until I hit 1,000 hours.


----------



## fallengt

Is Plasma Break-in is a must? I know it'll make phosphor harden faster but I can't leave my TV running for 10h+ straight a day when noone at home.

I watch my plasma TV for 5h a day, out of the box "cinema mode" with various contents; so I'll get to 100- 200h eventually. Do I really need to do break-in for my Panny Plasma?


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fallengt*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22577376
> 
> 
> Is Plasma Break-in is a must? I know it'll make phosphor harden faster but I can't leave my TV running for 10h+ straight a day when noone at home.
> 
> I watch my plasma TV for 5h a day, out of the box "cinema mode" with various contents; so I'll get to 100- 200h eventually. Do I really need to do break-in for my Panny Plasma?



Why don't you just use Pixel Jogger aging for this?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-breakin-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-the-only-way 


Put the mp4 file on SD card and let it play repeat continuously for few hours each time is ok, if you can't leave running longer straight. And intermittently just watch tv normally.

After 100+ usage, use Pixel Jogger every time for few minutes to warmup/cooling down, before and after watching/using the TV, also in the intermittent breaks.


The logic behind Pixel Jogger is using alternating White and Black image is to aging all pixels properly.

White will activate all RGB Red/Green/Blue pixels at the same time to aging/warming up evenly.

Black deactivate all RGB pixels for cooling down evenly. Thats why its called Pixel Jogger!


Use your logic and make the choice, just do it!


Other users experiences:
http://www.highdefforum.com/gaming-systems/138266-ps3-netflix-logo-burned-into-my-plasma-6.html 

http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/138292-plasma-ir-image-retention-aka-burn-reduction-program-read.html


----------



## Bob222




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22575477
> 
> 
> It was 75 continuous hours. I did, however, watch some regular content in between (probably about 4-6 hours max). I was a little nervous because I was afraid the DVD player would stop and go back to the menu, causing an even bigger problem. Guess I got lucky. I'd say it's 80% not visible. Look long enough, and it appears. I believe with time, it will be completely invisible. I've owned plasmas for the past 7 years, this was the first time I thought it might stick. Be patient. Even after 48 hours on all white, I could still see the IR and almost gave up. The next 30 hours seemed to do the trick. Again, if it wasn't for the power outage, I think the last 25 would have completely "erased it." Needless to say, I won't be gaming on my screen until I hit 1,000 hours.



Thanks for the info. I'm running the white screen while I sleep for about 7-8 hours a day. I'm at about 25 hours so far. I do see maybe a slight improvement.


----------



## Hermolicious84












As an avid gamer looking to buy a TV this holiday season (and eying the TC-P55ST50), this thread has officially scared me away from plasmas. I KNOW they have significantly better picture quality. I KNOW they generally have lower input lag. But as a person who freaks out about the smallest things that go wrong with my devices, IR that lasts days or weeks would really drive me crazy with worry that it's permanent. If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that long-lasting IR can still happen even after hundreds of hours of careful break-in and *relatively* little time spent on persistent images, and that it can be incredibly difficult to get rid of. If only this was covered by the manufacturer's warranty, I would consider it.


But I just don't think I'm ready to deal with the stress. I'M NOT STRONG ENOUGH.


----------



## Siryak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hermolicious84*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22592824
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an avid gamer looking to buy a TV this holiday season (and eying the TC-P55ST50), this thread has officially scared me away from plasmas. I KNOW they have significantly better picture quality. I KNOW they generally have lower input lag. But as a person who freaks out about the smallest things that go wrong with my devices, IR that lasts days or weeks would really drive me crazy with worry that it's permanent. If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that long-lasting IR can still happen even after hundreds of hours of careful break-in and *relatively* little time spent on persistent images, and that it can be incredibly difficult to get rid of. If only this was covered by the manufacturer's warranty, I would consider it.
> 
> But I just don't think I'm ready to deal with the stress. I'M NOT STRONG ENOUGH.



I am a very avid gamer. NO image retention whatsoever. Don't worry about it!


----------



## Bob222

After running the white screen slides for about 60 hours over several nights, my "MENU" IR appears to be completely gone. This white screen trick really does work. I'll run it a few more nights just to be sure. Thank you PeterG. and mkaz527 for your help. I really appreciate it.


----------



## gheffty93

I emailed an editor from cnet to ask what to do about image retention/burn in and he said that 1) it's not much of an issue anymore and 2) nowadays I could just start using the TV normally from the get-go. I asked him about gaming, and he said that he has a plasma he games on, and that he hasn't had any issues with it. I then asked him what to do if IR occurs, and he said just to continue using the TV normally and it will go away eventually. All of this sounds promising to me. We have a Fujitsu plasma from 2005 and have never had an issue, and I don't think we did anything back then, but we don't game on that TV.


But after reading these threads about time-consuming slides and pixel stuff....this all sounds a bit too much. I mean I don't want to spend hours trying to pamper the TV just to get it to work. Maybe LEDs are the better choice....they're just more expensive.....I don't know what to do.


----------



## mkaz527




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Siryak*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22592853
> 
> 
> I am a very avid gamer. NO image retention whatsoever. Don't worry about it!


I don't see how that's possible. I'm at the point where I'm going to wait until I have about 1,000 hours on the set before I attempt to game on it again. Even though I've had success reducing the amount of IR from Madden, after nearly 200 hours have passed since I played the game and, if I look hard enough, the logo is still there. I guess you got lucky!


----------



## Hermolicious84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22596156
> 
> 
> I don't see how that's possible. I'm at the point where I'm going to wait until I have about 1,000 hours on the set before I attempt to game on it again. Even though I've had success reducing the amount of IR from Madden, after nearly 200 hours have passed since I played the game and, if I look hard enough, the logo is still there. I guess you got lucky!



Well, ****. Every time I see a post that makes me think, "Awesome. I can have the best PQ possible and still play a ton of games!" I immediately read another that makes me think, "Damn, LCD it is..."


I just don't want to risk ruining a new $1,000 ST50 just because I used it for playing games.


----------



## DR.DTS

i'll chime in on what I've experienced and done so far. We've had our Panny GT30 55" since the start of the year and I did"baby" the set for the first 80+ hours. I just did normal programing, no logos, tickers and used the XBox 360 in it's audio mode displaying the visual effects as well.


But I did play Gears of War a lot and did get some IR from static displays on the screen which like all was really apparent in white or light color displays. I tried a few things nd nothing worked but found it was combination of several viweing uses and TV settingsand general common sense that has helped. Now when playing I do....


Custom or THX Modes Only...no game and no vivid. My Custom Mode is based on the calibration settings of Dave_O in the Panasonic Settings Topic


Change the Aspect Screen Size 1 & 2 everytime I play. It's not a lot pixel size but enough to help. If I play one night I'll have it at Size 1 and the next night Size 2. I make it a habit to change it the moment I turn on the 360.


Anytime I take a break, be it dinner, a snack or just going to the bathroom I always enable the Scrolling Bars.


Do normal viewing between gaming be it TV or BR's. Sometimes I'll turn it on and not even watch it.


Run the "White Slides" when not using the TV for several hours or even when away at work.


And of course enable Pixel Orbiter



It's been a long time since I played Gears of War and any traces of staic images are now gone. I've got small amount from playing Borderlands but nothing as bad as GOW gave me. I believe it's due to everything I'm doing listed above and just using common sense. I wouldn't trade the Plasma period even with the so-calle extra care involved. It's night & day over the LCD we had to replace and it was highly recommended model...Sony Z5100 52".


----------



## mkaz527

Man, just can't win!

So my EA Sports logo was all but gone. I was running a white screen for another 100 hours just to get rid of the final traces. Had about 12 hours to go when WHAMO! the SD card I had in my set stopped working and a bright white CANNOT READ FILE warning popped up on the screen for god knows how many hours. Out of the frying pan and into the fryer. This one is dead center of the screen and has that nice, dark look to it. What a disaster. Should've called it quits when I was ahead. Hoping now that I have 350 hours on the set this one won't persist as bad as the EA Sports logo but friends, my spirit is officially broken. I love plasma, but I just want to enjoy my set.


----------



## Bob222




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22607581
> 
> 
> Man, just can't win!
> 
> So my EA Sports logo was all but gone. I was running a white screen for another 100 hours just to get rid of the final traces. Had about 12 hours to go when WHAMO! the SD card I had in my set stopped working and a bright white CANNOT READ FILE warning popped up on the screen for god knows how many hours. Out of the frying pan and into the fryer. This one is dead center of the screen and has that nice, dark look to it. What a disaster. Should've called it quits when I was ahead. Hoping now that I have 350 hours on the set this one won't persist as bad as the EA Sports logo but friends, my spirit is officially broken. I love plasma, but I just want to enjoy my set.



Wow that really sucks. Sorry to hear that. I wonder why the SD card stopped reading. I usually run the white screen while sleeping. But after reading this I don't think I'll be running the white screen anymore unless I can keep an eye on it. I would hope that your IR will go away quickly with 350 hours on it.


----------



## iBoB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22607581
> 
> 
> Man, just can't win!
> 
> So my EA Sports logo was all but gone. I was running a white screen for another 100 hours just to get rid of the final traces. Had about 12 hours to go when WHAMO! the SD card I had in my set stopped working and a bright white CANNOT READ FILE warning popped up on the screen for god knows how many hours. Out of the frying pan and into the fryer. This one is dead center of the screen and has that nice, dark look to it. What a disaster. Should've called it quits when I was ahead. Hoping now that I have 350 hours on the set this one won't persist as bad as the EA Sports logo but friends, my spirit is officially broken. I love plasma, but I just want to enjoy my set.



Man I feel for you. Do you see the IR when watching regular content or do you have to put on a blank screen to see it? The fact you got rid of the EA logo bodes well for getting rid of this new problem eventually. Hang in there.


----------



## mkaz527




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBoB*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22612135
> 
> 
> Man I feel for you. Do you see the IR when watching regular content or do you have to put on a blank screen to see it? The fact you got rid of the EA logo bodes well for getting rid of this new problem eventually. Hang in there.



It was visible at first. I left it on an HD channel for the past 60 hours while I was out of town and it's definitely a lot better and very hard - if not impossible - to see while watching regular content. On an all white screen, it's still noticeable, but not nearly as bad as when it first happened. Hopefully running the white screen and a mix of content will reduce it even further. I feel like I've read a hundred articles in which they "tortured" the sets to try and burn them in, but then after running 24 hours of content it was gone. That has NEVER been my experience. And even though the EA SPORTS logo is mostly gone, there's no denying it's there when on a white screen.


----------



## fastsvo



Yesterday, I purchased a TC-50PU54 from Costco and flipped through the channels for a few minutes and then proceeded to break it in using Evangelos slides via a thumb drive.


I haven't stopped running the slides.


My settings are set to


----------



## teamtrinity

Hello!


Just bought a Samsung pn60e8000! This thread is epic in length! Can someone tell me if there's a consensus on break in?


Is there a break in period necessary? If so, what is the procedure? Should I not mess with the image setting during break in?


Thanks!


----------



## Ace1965

Smart move! There is no reason for people to sit around babysitting their tv.


----------



## HBizzle26

I have a TC-P50UT50 that has the MSNBC Logo Bar like another guy on this forum. I have downloaded a pixel jogger that I may try, but have been unable to find the slides people are speaking of. Any other advice on getting rid of this issue?


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HBizzle26*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22632927
> 
> 
> I have a TC-P50UT50 that has the MSNBC Logo Bar like another guy on this forum. I have downloaded a pixel jogger that I may try, but have been unable to find the slides people are speaking of. Any other advice on getting rid of this issue?



The whitescreen slides, you can download it in the pixel jogger thread also as "whitescreenIR".

Advice see top of this page!


----------



## HBizzle26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22633111
> 
> 
> The whitescreen slides, you can download it in the pixel jogger thread also as "whitescreenIR".
> 
> Advice see top of this page!



Am I gonna find it if I do a search for whitescreenIR?


----------



## iBrad

Here is the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-breakin-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-the-only-way-for-diy-users-only


----------



## HBizzle26

Thanks. Found it. Will test tonight.


----------



## 5thdimension




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkaz527*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3870#post_22607581
> 
> 
> Man, just can't win!
> 
> So my EA Sports logo was all but gone. I was running a white screen for another 100 hours just to get rid of the final traces. Had about 12 hours to go when WHAMO! the SD card I had in my set stopped working and a bright white CANNOT READ FILE warning popped up on the screen for god knows how many hours. Out of the frying pan and into the fryer. This one is dead center of the screen and has that nice, dark look to it. What a disaster. Should've called it quits when I was ahead. Hoping now that I have 350 hours on the set this one won't persist as bad as the EA Sports logo but friends, my spirit is officially broken. I love plasma, but I just want to enjoy my set.


You do have a PC with an Internet Connection and HDMI Port, don't quit because 1 of several input devices failed, improvise.

Use one of the many Youtube videos designed to reduce eliminate IR..


----------



## 5thdimension

Common sense prevails and i am not even close to being concerned about IR and this is why, i already know plasma sets have a IR issue so i will not display anything for extended periods (more than 60 seconds) with black bars or a border or a format that won't fill the screen on 1 of the several picture modes available by using ther Format button, stop the problem at the source by obeying 1 simple rule rule: Use the Format Button to adjust the screen size so that the image fills the ENTIRE screen, if you need to set it on ZOOM then so be it, or just don't watch it, i found that problem with Crackle Movie Service but still not sure if it was because i was streaming from my PC, i will try a different method to stream Crackle and report back with my results.


----------



## rcll

My set has the B&W CN logo burned in which is quite visible on light backgrounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cartoon_Network_HD_logo.svg 


The logo is so ridiculously high contrast that its almost impossible not to get burn in, or at least IR from it.


Someone mentioned inverting the channel logo and running that as a slide, has anyone had success doing this?


Or is a full white slide still the best bet to erase burn in?


----------



## 5thdimension

It is soooo hard to remember to notice the screen size on every single movie, today i caught myself watching something in Crackle and did not notice the border for at least 10 minutes, i noticed some ghosting on light colored scenes from the border, no worries man. Activate the scrolling bar and go to bed..


----------



## rcll

I've been blasting the screen with a full white slide in Vivid mode at 100% contrast and 100% brightness for 60 straight hours now, but this black&white CN logo is still quite visible.


The TV is definitely limiting brightness. When I exit the image viewer's fullscreen mode and shrink the slide the white gets much much brighter, when I go back to fullscreen it almost looks like a dull grey by comparison.


Is there a faster way to erase a specific logo burn in? I'm worried if I invert the logo in photoshop and its not exactly in the same spot of the screen it will just create a slightly aliased burn in of its own, like double vision burn in.


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcll*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22659269
> 
> 
> I've been blasting the screen with a full white slide in Vivid mode at 100% contrast and 100% brightness for 60 straight hours now, but this black&white CN logo is still quite visible.
> 
> The TV is definitely limiting brightness. When I exit the image viewer's fullscreen mode and shrink the slide the white gets much much brighter, when I go back to fullscreen it almost looks like a dull grey by comparison.
> 
> Is there a faster way to erase a specific logo burn in? I'm worried if I invert the logo in photoshop and its not exactly in the same spot of the screen it will just create a slightly aliased burn in of its own, like double vision burn in.



I, too, have thought about the matter of number of hours of all white (severely brightness limited) as opposed to say the scrolling bar in the normal controls or service menu (not hit as much by ABL and in the service menu that scrolling bar is not time limited) but white only on screen for about 40% of the time. I would perhaps try using the scrolling bar in the service menu and see if that improves matters. Alternatively, there is an mpg that zoyd posted on high def junkies which is analogous to the scrolling bar. It is even less brightness limited than the standard scrolling bar (essentially white is on screen 1/3 of the time). It is under the thread Burn baby burn, ir..... I still believe that a white screen (be it all white or less brightness limited choices) is the way to go. There is a lot of peer-reviewed research on this whereas I see none for all the other techniques that you see posted.


----------



## rcll

Thanks PeterG. I tried to download the mpg zoyd posted but it seems that his link is dead. Do you think you could upload your copy somewhere so its available to us burned-in unfortunates?


I'm still going near 100 hours with the full white slide and still the logo is visible. It nearly seems permanent at this point but I'm willing to try everything.


Something I noticed is that the color temperature presets affect how visible this burn in appears. My set has Cool2-Cool1-Norm-Warm1-Warm2.

I don't know if its an optical illusion or not, but Cool2 seems to display the white slide the brightest and also hides the burn in the most, while Warm2 shows the burn in the most.


Unfortunately, if I exit the Vivid 100%-everything Cool2 torch mode, and switch to a normally calibrated THX watching mode, the burn in becomes much more visible again.


I'm still wondering about creating an inverse logo to fill in the burn in, if it can be done accurately and not make the situation worse.


The only thing that gives me hope for all this full white screen blasting is what you posted earlier in the thread, which seems to be some of the scant factual information regarding burn in.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840#post_22525484 
_*3 - MgO Sputtering - High energy discharge in Plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels. The result is a long lasting ghost image that can take many days to remove. It can be seen as a slightly darker image on a full white screen. Ironically, a full white screen for many hours is the best course of action to resolve this issue as it normalized the deposition of MgO to all pixels (evens it out)
*_


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcll*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22664870
> 
> 
> Thanks PeterG. I tried to download the mpg zoyd posted but it seems that his link is dead. Do you think you could upload your copy somewhere so its available to us burned-in unfortunates?
> 
> )



The thread is still there and is entitled (to be complete) Re: Burn baby Burn, ir and the VT30 Panasonic. It is not on the first page anymore but the second. The post to read is #138 and is dated April 23, 2012. The attachment is still there and I downloaded it now. Once you extract the file rename the filetype m2t to mpg as the Panasonic cannot read as extensive a variety of formats as the Samsung.


----------



## rcll

Thanks. I see the attachment now after logging in to HDJ.


The public link he posted was dead ( http://filesmelt.com/downloader/zoyds_washer-MPEG-4_.mp4_.zip )


I just uploaded them to box for quick access. All credit belongs to zoyd.

mp4: https://www.box.com/s/t6gecatlqmjurdiapo0s m2t: https://www.box.com/s/ye7bnkdipbc7tgms4a67 


Have you used his mpg with any success? I'm going to try it now after doing an even 100 hours of the abl-limited white slide.


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcll*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22665259
> 
> 
> Thanks. I see the attachment now after logging in to HDJ.
> 
> The public link he posted was dead ( http://filesmelt.com/downloader/zoyds_washer-MPEG-4_.mp4_.zip )
> 
> I just uploaded them to box for quick access. All credit belongs to zoyd.
> 
> mp4: https://www.box.com/s/t6gecatlqmjurdiapo0s m2t: https://www.box.com/s/ye7bnkdipbc7tgms4a67
> 
> Have you used his mpg with any success? I'm going to try it now after doing an even 100 hours of the abl-limited white slide.



On Sunday I watched 6 hours of golf straight, the first 3 of them on the Golf Channel and the next 3 on NBC (which appends its own obnoxious opaque logo to the equally obnoxious opaque Golf Channel logo). I do not have a major problem with image retention but I knew I would have some that would be somewhat persistent. I decided I would wipe it with a white screen as opposed to just watching other channels which would wipe it with normal usage (but not as quickly). I had a full white screen on for about 15 minutes and that slightly diminished it. I then decided to use the zoyd mpg. The white is only on the screen for 1/3 of the time but the mpg is much less brightness limited. I went out for a bite to eat and came back in 2 hours and it was gone. Is it better to have full white (severely brightness limited) but the offending logo continuously on a white screen or rather having a much brighter (I feel over double the brightness but without a meter yet I am just guessing) white but only being "on" the offending logo for 1/3 of the time? I really don't know but I am suspecting that using the zoyd mpg may well be better. However, some form of white screen is what all the peer-reviewed studies used (several of which studies were partially written by Samsung plasma engineers).


----------



## rcll

Did you see anything in the studies that speaks to permanent burn in? Is there a point where white slides won't have any effect, and any explanation for why?


Could there be some service menu setting to disable the ABL so the wipe time can be cut down?


Guess I'll need to do 300 hours of this mpg to compare it to the 100 hours of solid ABL'd white slide. I'm starting to wonder what all this continuous high intensity white does to black levels, if anything.


----------



## PeterG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcll*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3840_60#post_22668085
> 
> 
> Did you see anything in the studies that speaks to permanent burn in? Is there a point where white slides won't have any effect, and any explanation for why?
> 
> Could there be some service menu setting to disable the ABL so the wipe time can be cut down?
> 
> Guess I'll need to do 300 hours of this mpg to compare it to the 100 hours of solid ABL'd white slide. I'm starting to wonder what all this continuous high intensity white does to black levels, if anything.



I am giving you a link to the full text of one study. This was from 2007 and has been cited several times. Not terribly long and if things get a bit heavy just skip over it. Anyhow this study I will quote a bit from (full text link below) was published in the IEEE transactions of plasma science).

_"THE REALIZATION of high-quality plasma display panels

(PDPs) requires an urgent solution to the image sticking or

image retention problems induced in PDP cells after strong sus-

tain discharges have been repeatedly produced during a sustain

period [1]–[9]. Image retention means temporal image sticking

that is easily recoverable through minor treatment, whereas

image sticking is permanent and not recoverable even with

severe treatment."_


As you see, they talk about Image Retention (as we know it) and that is "temporal image sticking" whereas "image sticking" (without a qualifier) is what we here term Burn-in. Now if you read the fix was 100 hours of full white but at a level much higher than we can generate with our TVs. However, what they threw at the tv to get the alleged permanent image sticking (and in the abstract they generated what they believed was permanent image sticking) was 500 hours continuously at an insanely high level (far higher levels than any current plasma can reach even with the smallest of windows). So while a full white screen can get nowhere near the levels what they used for the "fix" by the same token what they used to generate the alleged permanent image sticking is also at a far higher level attainable with our TVs (and this was essentially 3 weeks continuous of the same image (abuse which we could not remotely duplicate in terms of brightness level).


I don't know of anything in the service menu which would turn off ABL.


As regards having to run say zoyd's 3 times longer I don't know and don't think that there is a linear relationship between the level of white and the number of hours that your logo for example has to be displayed on the white background. I do know that the zoyd mpg seemed to generate more heat (despite the white being on only 1/3 of the screen at one time) compared to the full white so I would definitely watch the heat level. Because of this heat level I would monitor this early on and if you feel it is getting a bit too hot turn it off or just change to normal programming and see if that brings the temperature down to what you would think would be "reasonable". Unfortunately, in your case, it appears that there really are no easy solutions but don't give up just yet.


I am really sorry that you have this problem and I hope that you get this sorted out to a reasonable extent.

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/recovery%20of%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20using%20aging%20discharge%20in%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf 


Edit: I need to find another study. Looking at this one again, this did "fix" the alleged permanent image sticking in the boundary area but not seemingly much happened in the region described as region A.


----------



## kayson

I just bought a Panasonic P55VT50. For the first few weeks I ran a dvd that cycled through shades of primary colors to break it in. I don't think I quite hit the 100 hour mark though. I never had problems with IR until last night after 5 or so hours of gaming, and I now have some of the game's on screen display left. I ran this dvd again overnight and already there's a huge improvement. Doing some research now, I see there are some other IR/break-in techniques. What's the general consensus as to the best choice?


What I've found:
Primary color cycles
"pixel jogger" i.e. alternate black/white rapidly
Panasonics built-in sweepin white bar


I have no experience with this and was wondering which people have found gives the best results. For anti-IR and/or break-in.


Thanks!


----------



## WilliamR

Main thread updated with the good information posted above.


----------



## rcll

Thanks PeterG. I looked at the pdf you linked and it seems you're right. Only Region B 'boundary' halo-type retention was cleared with the white slide. Region A, the main burn-in area was not cleared. Region C, the rest of the screen was only slightly affected.


The electron microscope pic and the diagram really help to show whats going on inside the panel.

  



I guess the only solution is to burn the whole screen to match Region A if you want uniformity. Supposedly a really long/bright usage of white slide could do that, but it seems like it would still be relatively more burned-in where the logo was, unless Region A burn-in plateaus at some point and can't get any worse, then the rest of the screen just has to burn-in to match it. Burning-in an accurate inverse image of the retained logo would probably be ideal and damage the panel the least.


Besides eating away the MgO layer, the only downside result I could see is the luminance on a black slide seems to rise after their 100 hour white slide treatment, but like you said the brightness intensities they are working with are much higher than what we can achieve on our sets, so its hard to compare.

 


I'm not exactly sure how luminance translates here but I think it means the TV's black level will get brighter. If so, a very intensive white slide treatment may not be worth it if your current level of burn-in is acceptable.


There seems to be a trade off between clearing burn-in with white slide and keeping dark black level. Either way its interesting to see whats actually going on. If there are more studies you're aware of please post them.


----------



## KinkyKupcakes

  


So over the past month, I have noticed in the bottom middle of my screen 3 rows of grey rectangles, have no idea what movie or game could cause this? It looks like a burn-in. I watch TV for a few hours on Netflix or play games on my Xbox, and my Brother watches cable, that's it. I took a picture for you guys to see it, any way to get rid of it? It's a bit annoying and while currently as of now watching Breaking Bad, I can see it in some scenes...I own a Panasonic ST50 55''.


On a side note, my orbiter is on and I ran my Sliding Bar 3 times, I been trying to run movies from Netflix and letting it just run. My settings are also the same settings from CNET. I do notice that on the PS3, when I see the icons such as Youtube or Netflix, it seems to cover the gray bars, like it's layers or something...weird.


----------



## fallengt

I got several IRs 2 days ago (windows logo) by trying to tweak contrast/brightness in 3D mode. My panny St50 is almost 200h, the IRs only visible in black screen 3D mode and I can't see anything in 2D screen - Can someone explain why is that ?


I've been runing slider in 3D mode for few hours a dayt, most of them completely disapeared, some are still there, faded 90% but very stuborn . Should I run it more or just watch regular content and wait for it to eventually fade away?


----------



## Recstar24

I just received my gt50 last week and am breaking it in a bit for a calibration coming up. For the slides, are there specific settings for contrast brightness or picture mode I should be using? I left it at standard to save energy and to be on the safe side.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Recstar24*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22761375
> 
> 
> I just received my gt50 last week and am breaking it in a bit for a calibration coming up. For the slides, are there specific settings for contrast brightness or picture mode I should be using? I left it at standard to save energy and to be on the safe side.



Standard mode is too dim when running the slides and kinda defeats the purpose of them. When using Evengelo's "break-in" slides, you want the panel to be fairly bright, not dim. Dim is more for when aging the panel by watching regular content, not for when running the slides, and you'd have to age the panel for 2-3 times longer at dim settings before the phosphors have fully settled in. I equate slideshow aging to searing a rib-eye steak - i grill it hot and fast to seal in the juices and give it a nice crust and it comes out much tastier and juicier than when grilling it with low flame for longer duration. And the energy savings in Standard are negligeable anyway - maybe a dollar's worth if that.


D-Nice's 2012 panel aging slideshow procedure is to basically use the Custom picture mode and leave all the settings at their factory defaults, turn all the photo enhancement options off, and set the slideshow duration to SLOW, and to do this for 100 hours. He is very experienced with all this stuff so go with his method and you're good to go after 100 hours. If you've changed any of the settings in Custom mode even one click then selecting "Reset to Defaults" will restore the factory settings.


His 2011 Panel Aging procedure was different - he posted specific setting for Contrast and Brightness etc, but this year he went with the default Custom mode.


----------



## Recstar24

Thanks randy, super helpful. I've changed to the dnice slides and left everything custom untouched. I'm mixing this with full screen content as well just to get some enjoyment during the process.


----------



## xct84

I am considering purchasing a Panasonic plasma, 55 or 60 inch. I utilized this site six years ago when I bought my lcd. In looking through this thread, my head wants to explode. I haven't looked at every posting though. From what I can gather, in order to obtain your best usage from a plasma, you have to run some slide shows for 200 - 1000 hours before the set is "broken in". Maybe I'm missing something, however, this seems like a lot of hassle for a tv set. If it's not too much trouble, might someone point me to a link or links that will better help me understand the why's and wherefore's of this process. Thanks in advance.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xct84*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22781514
> 
> 
> I am considering purchasing a Panasonic plasma, 55 or 60 inch. I utilized this site six years ago when I bought my lcd. In looking through this thread, my head wants to explode. I haven't looked at every posting though. From what I can gather, in order to obtain your best usage from a plasma, you have to run some slide shows for 200 - 1000 hours before the set is "broken in". Maybe I'm missing something, however, this seems like a lot of hassle for a tv set. If it's not too much trouble, might someone point me to a link or links that will better help me understand the why's and wherefore's of this process. Thanks in advance.



There are several "break in" threads that keep popping up, but here is one of the more recent and comprehensive ones:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1447246/break-in


----------



## xct84

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.


----------



## dmaul1114

I've read through most of this thread and several others on here so I'm feeling pretty ok about my Panasonic 55" UT50 purchase (gets delivered on Monday).


I'll do the slides to help age it so I can get the settings right when it's stable. Understand it doesn't help prevent IR, but can't hurt anything either. I'll use it while doing those for 100 hours too, trying to stick mostly with full screen content and limiting gaming and ESPN. The latter will be an adjustment for me as I'm in the habit of having ESPN on a ton--but it's mostly just on in the back ground (like now) when I'm not paying much attention. So I guess I should drop that for good due to the ticker etc? And just watch when I'm actively watching to prevent IR even after the break in period?


I'll probably watch some of the national championship game Monday night. ESPN doesn't have the ticker during the bowl games (or at least didn't during the Fiesta Bowl last night)--but still the score graphic. But I figure a few hours will be fine with commercials and channel flipping to break it up, and will run the slides over night (as I will every night until I hit 100 hours) which should clear up any IR it picked up I'd think.


Anything else I should be aware of?


----------



## N3M3515662

I'm a bit confused on the break in process am I suppose to run my tv on vivid and 100% contrast and 100% brightness or vivid 100% contrast 50% brightness ? or 50% contrast and 50% brightness for 100-200hrs ? BTW I am new here so please excuse the noobish questions that I may have. I am coming from LCD 32" Vizio to Plasma LG 50PA5500 this is my first plasma so bare with me.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Hi,

my name is Chris, I got a new GT50 60" Plasma in November.


I broke it in, meaning it ran on 30% Contrast the first 150 hours, which made watching anything really sh!tty.









Anyway, then after I reached 150hours, which I confirmed by going into the user system settings with the help of this forum, I switched to Standard and Game Mode for games..









Me an my wife play videogames.

On a snowy weekend she played Assassins Creed III for roughly 8 hours each day.

Now there is burn in or IR of the Assassins Creed life bar in the lower left corner and the controls in the lower right corner.


I had image shifting enabled the whole time and ever since we have gotten it.

I ran the Panasonic white bar for 30 mins, didn't do a thing.


Then this youtube video for 6 hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avj108dN_x0 

I hade it blown up so it would cover the whole screen and no side bars.


I can still see the Assassins Creed Image.










What do I do!?!?









Is my TV now "ruined"? Will it go away? Do I have to run something for 24hours?

Is this video the wrong one? Would "white noise" be better?


THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!


----------



## highdefav1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22787344
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> my name is Chris, I got a new GT50 60" Plasma in November.
> 
> I broke it in, meaning it ran on 30% Contrast the first 150 hours, which made watching anything really sh!tty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, then after I reached 150hours, which I confirmed by going into the user system settings with the help of this forum, I switched to Standard and Game Mode for games..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me an my wife play videogames.
> 
> On a snowy weekend she played Assassins Creed III for roughly 8 hours each day.
> 
> Now there is burn in or IR of the Assassins Creed life bar in the lower left corner and the controls in the lower right corner.
> 
> I had image shifting enabled the whole time and ever since we have gotten it.
> 
> I ran the Panasonic white bar for 30 mins, didn't do a thing.
> 
> Then this youtube video for 6 hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avj108dN_x0
> 
> I hade it blown up so it would cover the whole screen and no side bars.
> 
> I can still see the Assassins Creed Image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do I do!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is my TV now "ruined"? Will it go away? Do I have to run something for 24hours?
> 
> Is this video the wrong one? Would "white noise" be better?
> 
> THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!



I'd be quite surprised if it was BI. Maybe if you played AC3, 24/7 for a month, you might have an issue with BI. From what I've read, if it's severe IR, it can take a while to go away. Some users reported a little more than a month.


Unfortunately, if gaming is you thing, you might want to pick up a 40 inch LCD/LED and use that for gaming and the GT50 for TV and movies.


You can try running full screen Pixar movies and also the Disney WOW disc has some kind of pixel jogger/flipper that I've heard helps too.


----------



## highdefav1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N3M3515662*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22786402
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused on the break in process am I suppose to run my tv on vivid and 100% contrast and 100% brightness or vivid 100% contrast 50% brightness ? or 50% contrast and 50% brightness for 100-200hrs ? BTW I am new here so please excuse the noobish questions that I may have. I am coming from LCD 32" Vizio to Plasma LG 50PA5500 this is my first plasma so bare with me.



I ran mine on Standard mode (actually wasn't that bad of a picture), which used 50% brightness and 50% contrast.


I don't think there really is a break-in per say, unless you are going to get a set professionally calibrated, then the "break-in" would be to age the panel to get it ready for the professional calibration.


----------



## highdefav1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22781861
> 
> 
> I've read through most of this thread and several others on here so I'm feeling pretty ok about my Panasonic 55" UT50 purchase (gets delivered on Monday).
> 
> I'll do the slides to help age it so I can get the settings right when it's stable. Understand it doesn't help prevent IR, but can't hurt anything either. I'll use it while doing those for 100 hours too, trying to stick mostly with full screen content and limiting gaming and ESPN. The latter will be an adjustment for me as I'm in the habit of having ESPN on a ton--but it's mostly just on in the back ground (like now) when I'm not paying much attention. So I guess I should drop that for good due to the ticker etc? And just watch when I'm actively watching to prevent IR even after the break in period?
> 
> I'll probably watch some of the national championship game Monday night. ESPN doesn't have the ticker during the bowl games (or at least didn't during the Fiesta Bowl last night)--but still the score graphic. But I figure a few hours will be fine with commercials and channel flipping to break it up, and will run the slides over night (as I will every night until I hit 100 hours) which should clear up any IR it picked up I'd think.
> 
> Anything else I should be aware of?



No reason to run the slides if you are not getting it professionally calibrated...it's a waste of energy and time. I used Standard mode for about 100 hours and just varied my content. Keep the pixel orbiter enabled...some say it's a gimmick, but in my opinion it works.


If you like watching ESPN, you can Zoom the format on the TV and the ticker/logo will be pushed out of the viewing field. Although, it also pushed the scoreboard if you're watching a game.


If you're getting it delivered, before you signoff, check the condition of the set to make sure there is no damage. Some people turn it on to make sure there is no excessive buzzing and they also go as far as running the slides and looking for dead pixels with the brighter slides. The caveat is though, if you're in a colder climate, chances are the panel has been sitting on the truck and if it's cold, it should sit at room temp for a few hours before turning on.


----------



## dmaul1114

My thought on slides is it just gets through that initial 100 hours of needing to baby the set a bit before calibrating (even if just doing it with a disc) or gaming much etc. faster. Not really a waste of time as I can just run them while at work and sleeping, and the energy use isn't a huge deal.


It is in the 30s here lately, so I probably will need to let it warm up before turning it on.


As far as ESPN, I'll just limit it until the 100 hours of slides is up, and then just not leave it on for hours in the background while working etc. like I tend to do now. Just a waste since I don't really pay attention anyway.


I'm not too worried about IR after the break in anyway as I do vary my content otherwise with sports, TV, movies of different aspect ratios and games. Will just have to be a bit more cautious about marathon sessions of games with HUDs and other static images I suppose. But I don't play more than 2-3 hours at a stretch all that often any more anyway. Seems like a lot of IR people talk about is just things noticed on solid white screens or running the screen wiper anyway (with some extreme exceptions of course), and that doesn't bother me as I won't be actively checking for IR. As long as I don't notice it during normal usage, I couldn't care less.


----------



## StrikerZ

My head is starting to hurt from how bad buying a TV has stressed me out.


My TV is set up in the basement for my gaming are along with Netflix and occasionally movies. I was going to buy a LCD because I thought it would be better for gaming, but every article I read said plasmas would be better because of the higher Hz and less motion blur. But now I hear about all this IR and it is starting to stress me out. I have a brand new Panny UT50, and I'm thinking of taking it back to Best Buy before the 30 days are. I really don't know what to do.


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *highdefav1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22788503
> 
> 
> I'd be quite surprised if it was BI. Maybe if you played AC3, 24/7 for a month, you might have an issue with BI. From what I've read, if it's severe IR, it can take a while to go away. Some users reported a little more than a month.
> 
> Unfortunately, if gaming is you thing, you might want to pick up a 40 inch LCD/LED and use that for gaming and the GT50 for TV and movies.
> 
> You can try running full screen Pixar movies and also the Disney WOW disc has some kind of pixel jogger/flipper that I've heard helps too.



Thanks, I hope it will go away then. I was surprised that after 8 hours of this youtube video it was still there and the Panasonic built in "screen cleaner" is only scheduled to run 15min.


=====


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StrikerZ*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22788778
> 
> 
> My head is starting to hurt from how bad buying a TV has stressed me out.
> 
> My TV is set up in the basement for my gaming are along with Netflix and occasionally movies. I was going to buy a LCD because I thought it would be better for gaming, but every article I read said plasmas would be better because of the higher Hz and less motion blur. But now I hear about all this IR and it is starting to stress me out. I have a brand new Panny UT50, and I'm thinking of taking it back to Best Buy before the 30 days are. I really don't know what to do.



I would say if you love movies and superior picture quality, keep the plasma, it will blow you away.

The picture is astonishing and will only get better over time and after a calibration.

BTW. make sure you get the BB rewards card, they might be able to put your TV purchase still on the card, once you spend over $2500 with them you get the silver reward, among it's offerings a then no cost professional calibration.


If you do however excessive gaming over long periods of time, you might wanna think about maybe indeed bringing it back and switching to an LCD.

Some games are also more prone to cause IR than others. I play Skyrim a lot and I don't think this would cause IR even if played all day.


Well....my $0.02.


----------



## NoPotatoNacho

Wouldn't surprise me if IR was a problem with some people gaming. Some people do pull 15+ hour gaming binges (I don't want to know how... that's just disturbing (in all due respect of a matter of personal health) in its own right).


----------



## StrikerZ

I'll play for like 6 hours at the most straight. Usually if I have some friends over my house and it's late night.


----------



## dmaul1114

You'll probably be ok as long as you're not doing that every night and are mixing content (also watching TV and movies) reagularly when not gaming.


Just avoid such long sessions for the first 100-200 hours. You can run the color slides you can download when not using it for the first week or two to help get past the time faster. The slides won't make the set any more resistant to IR than just normal usage with avoiding static images for 100-200 hours, just an easy way to rack up the time quickly without having to constantly play movies etc.


From what I've read, most IR is just temporary and not noticed unless looking at full screen color slides anyway. So just be a bit cautious for the first couple weeks, then you'll probably never notice it unless you go looking for it.


----------



## StrikerZ

I usually only do it on Friday and Satirday nights, if I do. The weekdays are usually small amounts of Netflix and maybe a movie. Not much to do anything on the weekdays.


I should be able to play games now if I disable the HUD, right?


----------



## dmaul1114

Yeah, the HUD is the main thing. Just want to limit static images during the break in period as much as possible. Lots of games don't let you disable it though.


If it's going to be used primarily for gaming though, you may be better going with an LCD set, maybe an LED one. Colors pop more in games with the brighter lighting and you can have piece of mind of not having to worry about IR at all. The better black levels aren't such a big deal with gaming. More for movies and TV, and sounds like you don't watch enough of that for those to be your top priority.


I was a bit torn as I game a bit and watch a lot of ESPN. But movies are my main hobby and I plan on gaming less and watching more movies going forward, so I opted for prioritizing PQ for movies over some IR worries with games and sports. I'll post more impressions on how that worked out later on as my 55" UT50 gets delivered from Amazon tomorrow morning.


----------



## StrikerZ

I probably will start watching more movies. Main reason I didn't watch much before was the price, but now with all these streaming apps and Redbox. I'll probably watch movies more often.


Plus my budget doesn't really allow a good LCD/LED. Only reason I got a UT50 is because of the major sales going on.


----------



## dmaul1114

Same here. Was between that and the 55" Panasonic LED Amazon has for $849.99 (same price I ended up getting the 55" UT50 for as I just had Amazon match the Bestbuy sale price--had paid $899.99 originally). Reviews much better on the UT50, vs. that LED which was kind of bottom of the barrel as far as LEDs from name brands go.


Again, I think you'll be fine if you don't go looking for IR. A lot of posts are people noticing it when displaying a solid white screen etc. I couldn't care less about that. If I don't notice anything major during normal usage, I'm good to go.


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22790780
> 
> 
> You'll probably be ok as long as you're not doing that every night and are mixing content (also watching TV and movies) reagularly when not gaming.
> 
> Just avoid such long sessions for the first 100-200 hours. You can run the color slides you can download when not using it for the first week or two to help get past the time faster. The slides won't make the set any more resistant to IR than just normal usage with avoiding static images for 100-200 hours, just an easy way to rack up the time quickly without having to constantly play movies etc.
> 
> From what I've read, most IR is just temporary and not noticed unless looking at full screen color slides anyway. So just be a bit cautious for the first couple weeks, then you'll probably never notice it unless you go looking for it.



well this is exactly what I did. I didn't do it in the frist 100-200 hours, I only play on the weekend.

I still got IR.

Anyway, yes you have to look for it on a slide to see it and if there was someone standing next to me who would't know about, he wouldn't notice it.


That makes me wonder if some actually have it but don't know about it

I would have probably never noticed it myself if I hadn't run the slides.


Well the good news is, everyone I talked to from on here to Best Buy assured me it will go away, it will just take some time and of course until then, no more of the particular game

and gaming cut down to the minimum..


----------



## StrikerZ

Is it ok to watch 2 full screen movies in 100 contrast with my new TV that I only have like 10-15 hours on?


----------



## dmaul1114

Full screen content without any static logos is harmless. Nothing is stationary so nothing to worry about getting stuck with IR.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22793389
> 
> 
> Full screen content without any static logos is harmless. Nothing is stationary so nothing to worry about getting stuck with IR.



Is there any reason why people suggest to lower picture settings when running slides, then? I mean if they all fill the screen and phosphores all age evenly, what difference does it make what the picture settings are?


----------



## davelanger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RandyWalters*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22761752
> 
> 
> Standard mode is too dim when running the slides and kinda defeats the purpose of them. When using Evengelo's "break-in" slides, you want the panel to be fairly bright, not dim. Dim is more for when aging the panel by watching regular content, not for when running the slides, and you'd have to age the panel for 2-3 times longer at dim settings before the phosphors have fully settled in. I equate slideshow aging to searing a rib-eye steak - i grill it hot and fast to seal in the juices and give it a nice crust and it comes out much tastier and juicier than when grilling it with low flame for longer duration. And the energy savings in Standard are negligeable anyway - maybe a dollar's worth if that.
> 
> D-Nice's 2012 panel aging slideshow procedure is to basically use the Custom picture mode and leave all the settings at their factory defaults, turn all the photo enhancement options off, and set the slideshow duration to SLOW, and to do this for 100 hours. He is very experienced with all this stuff so go with his method and you're good to go after 100 hours. If you've changed any of the settings in Custom mode even one click then selecting "Reset to Defaults" will restore the factory settings.
> 
> His 2011 Panel Aging procedure was different - he posted specific setting for Contrast and Brightness etc, but this year he went with the default Custom mode.



Is it best to use the bright contrast when breaking in the TV when its full screen and no logos, hten use the dimmer settings when there are logos on the screen for the first 200 or so hours?

(this is for the GT50)


----------



## dmaul1114




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davelanger*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22793434
> 
> 
> Is it best to use the bright contrast when breaking in the TV when its full screen and no logos, hten use the dimmer settings when there are logos on the screen for the first 200 or so hours?
> 
> (this is for the GT50)



As I understand it, that's the gist of it. Brighter contrast for the slides or whatever full screen/no static image content you're using to age the panel.


But turn down the contrast when watching anything with some static logos, HUDs etc. since the set is more sensitive to IR the first hundred or so hours.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3900#post_22793433
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why people suggest to lower picture settings when running slides, then? I mean if they all fill the screen and phosphores all age evenly, what difference does it make what the picture settings are?



Most people recommend to up the contrast so it ages faster--doesn't have to be blazing, just don't want it too low as noted in the post of RandyWalters that you quoted.


----------



## LTE15

I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal. I haven't done anything yet since watching the second movie last night.


Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?


----------



## Jagged68




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LTE15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22794367
> 
> 
> Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?



I thought the slides were used to age the pixels uniformly for better calibration, not to protect/reduce IR?


----------



## davelanger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jagged68*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22794554
> 
> 
> I thought the slides were used to age the pixels uniformly for better calibration, not to protect/reduce IR?



That is correct, but also aging the the pixels past 200-400 hours also seems to be the sweet spot when IR happens less and goes away faster. so its really just a bonus that it helps with IR.


That is my understanding. The sliders are really just needed if you are going to use D NIce slides


----------



## dmaul1114

Yep. As I understand it, for IR, it's just a way to age the panel faster than just using it normally (which means it's turned off while at work, while asleep etc.).


Plasmas tend to be more prone to IR the first couple hundred outs. Running slides day and night when not in use just gets you past that break in period faster than turning it off when not in use. As well as aging the panel faster so you can calibrate sooner etc.


----------



## LTE15

Yes, I used the slides to age the panel more quickly. My question is about the IR I am seeing after watching the movies. i have been getting quite a bit of conflicting information. Is this something that is going to be an ongoing issue every time I watch a movie and is it a cumulative effect such that the more movies I watch the worse it is going to get?


----------



## Hermolicious84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LTE15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22794367
> 
> 
> I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal.



I don't think it's a great idea to compare the color of the black bars to the black background of the credits. There's just no way to know that they're even supposed to be the same shade. If you're running the credits and think you see a difference in color levels, immediately put on a dark, full screen slide (like DNice's darkest slide) and see if you can tell a difference with that. THEN you can be paranoid


----------



## LTE15

I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately I did put the slides on (actually the white one) and there was a noticeable difference in shade where the two black bars were. As I mentioned, after running the slides for several minutes, the difference went away and the picture was back to normal. I'm trying to figure out if this is normal and whether I need to be concerned that if I watch too many movies I may wind up with permanent burn in (i.e., whether the effect is cumlative) even though it seems to have been corrected.


By he way, I had the TV on movie (not torch) mode and contrast turned down to about 80 (of 100).


----------



## dmaul1114

I wouldn't worry about the IR if:]


1. You aren't noticing it during normal usage.

2. It's going away quickly even when you check with white slides etc.


It will go away just from watching a little full screen content, no need to be constantly checking white slides and running slides to wipe it etc.


The only real risk of serious IR that's hard to get rid of comes from having bright, static images on the screen for hours on end. As long as you're mixing content between TV, movies (full and with black bars) etc. any IR will be temporary and likely not noticeable unless you check white slides etc.


----------



## DR.DTS

TV - Panasonic 55" GT30

Age - One Year

Break In - Used Dave_O's settings and careful viewing for the first 75-90 hours


Started seeing residue and ghostng from images in video games. I do the "Bar Swipe" in the menu whenever I can or get up for a break from gaming. I've seen more IR but mainly because of playing one game and not others. I use "Custom Mode"...no vivid or game modes. In the past I've just ran one of the White Slides from the slide break-ins everyone uses. Today I'm trying out the "Pixel Jogger" for the first time. I'll run it, the Bar Swipe and the Whitenoise (Pixel Jogger) a few hours everyday this week and see if I notice anything by Saturday or sooner. I will make a report as to my findings but just as a visual one.


----------



## ispeck

eff it


I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks

if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back


like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that


I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend


I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ispeck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22802429
> 
> 
> eff it
> 
> I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
> 
> if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back
> 
> like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that
> 
> I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend
> 
> I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity



Sounds like a winner, I'm curious to hear you report back.


I'm the same way, I dropped $2K on that TV and I am going to enjoy the hell out of it, that includes Gaming and Movies.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LTE15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22794367
> 
> 
> I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal. I haven't done anything yet since watching the second movie last night.
> 
> Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?



If it helps, I used to see that too. 15 months later, I watched five movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios in one day, and I don't see a _shred_ of that. And I looked, too.


Yeah, that's a lot of hours put into the TV, but still...


----------



## LTE15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22803490
> 
> 
> If it helps, I used to see that too. 15 months later, I watched five movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios in one day, and I don't see a _shred_ of that. And I looked, too.
> 
> Yeah, that's a lot of hours put into the TV, but still...



Yes, that is helpful. Thanks. I really love the picture quality of the set, but I have to admit I'm losing my mind a little wondering whether after spending a considerable amount of money the issues with IR/burn in or whatever you want to call it are going to get better or worse over time. My old Sony rear projection LCD still looks good after 10 years and I never have to ask myself whether I've watched too many movies .


My in-laws just bought a basic Samsung LCD and while it's very nice, there is no question in my mind that there is a discernible difference in the picture quality vs. my plasma, especially while watching movies, which is primarily what we do and why I bought the TV to begin with. I figure I have a few choices: (1) roll the dice and hope there is no issue long term; (2) return the set and go back to using my old LCD until something comes out (at a reasonable price) where the picture quality is on par or better than plasma with no IR/burn in issues; or (3) spend some additional money and buy a Best Buy protection plan as insurance (which has its own risks given the financial condition BB is currently in).


When did buying a TV become so complicated??


----------



## dmaul1114

You should be fine. No need to run slides to get rid of temporary IR from black bars like you noticed. Should go away almost as fast just watching some full screen content.


IR after the first couple hundred hours is really only an issue for people who don't mix content at all, or play games or watch ESPN for hours and hours on end etc.


For most people, just using the TV normally will be fine as for most that involves 2:35:1 movies, 1:85:1 movies, cable/satellite, games etc. and mixing things up that much will prevent most IR and provides plenty of full screen viewing to wash any out. Most will never notice any minor temporary IR they pick up as well, as a lot of it is only noticeable if you go looking for it on white slides etc.


----------



## kris achar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3940_20#post_22804914
> 
> 
> You should be fine. No need to run slides to get rid of temporary IR from black bars like you noticed. Should go away almost as fast just watching some full screen content.
> 
> IR after the first couple hundred hours is really only an issue for people who don't mix content at all, or play games or watch ESPN for hours and hours on end etc.
> 
> For most people, just using the TV normally will be fine as for most that involves 2:35:1 movies, 1:85:1 movies, cable/satellite, games etc. and mixing things up that much will prevent most IR and provides plenty of full screen viewing to wash any out. Most will never notice any minor temporary IR they pick up as well, as a lot of it is only noticeable if you go looking for it on white slides etc.


Very true...My panasonic plasma will be 2 years old this march.And for the first year of its usage I did get temporary IR quite often but used to vanish in 5 to 6 minutes of watching regular tv.But now i watch tv channels with logos and even watching those channels for 2 to 3 hours non stop does not give any IR.It seems the plasma tv's do take sometime to settle down,

Then they become bullet proof !


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LTE15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22804843
> 
> 
> Yes, that is helpful. Thanks. I really love the picture quality of the set, but I have to admit I'm losing my mind a little wondering whether after spending a considerable amount of money the issues with IR/burn in or whatever you want to call it are going to get better or worse over time. My old Sony rear projection LCD still looks good after 10 years and I never have to ask myself whether I've watched too many movies .
> 
> My in-laws just bought a basic Samsung LCD and while it's very nice, there is no question in my mind that there is a discernible difference in the picture quality vs. my plasma, especially while watching movies, which is primarily what we do and why I bought the TV to begin with. I figure I have a few choices: (1) roll the dice and hope there is no issue long term; (2) return the set and go back to using my old LCD until something comes out (at a reasonable price) where the picture quality is on par or better than plasma with no IR/burn in issues; or (3) spend some additional money and buy a Best Buy protection plan as insurance (which has its own risks given the financial condition BB is currently in).
> 
> When did buying a TV become so complicated??



When people feed concepts into our minds that we actually see these things _because_ we're looking for them.


Let me clarify that I still use the screen wiper function from time to time, and I definitely did after watching movies "just because." But if you put a half hour sleep timer on it, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway, you know?


It's better to have a black top and bottom often than have a white, static ESPN logo show up on your screen.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Well, after running slides for 1 hour, red green blue flashing full screen YouTube video for 8 hours and pixel jogger for 3 hours my IR is still there and not even slightly better.


I called panasonic and after some more trouble shooting they will send someone out here.


----------



## joolsburn

Hi all,


I've had a 37" Panasonic LCD TV for the past year and a half, and I'm fairly happy with it, but I've been strongly considering treating myself to an upgrade, specifically the 50" Panasonic ST50. But I am worried about IR. With the LCD, I watch pillarboxed 4:3 content all the time, play a lot of video games, and also hook up my PC, all without worrying about IR.


If I were to upgrade, I wouldn't mind having to deal with a brief break-in period, but after this period, I would expect the same freedom and peace of mind that I enjoy right now. No image quality upgrade would be worth sacrificing it.


Having to be disciplined in what I display on the screen is unacceptable.


Having to periodically perform IR-wiping rituals is unacceptable.


Watching Casablanca stretched or zoomed in is unacceptable.


Having a darkened 4:3 region as a result of watching lots of 4:3 content is unacceptable.


Basically, suppose I buy the TV. If in six months, I still have any uneasy feelings about IR or uneven aging, then it has been a downgrade.


Given this, should I still be considering it? And what would be the best break-in practices now, if any, so that I don't have to baby it in the future?


I've tried reading through this thread, but I've found very little that adequately reassures me. Advice like "you don't need to break in if you only watch fullscreen movies" don't satisfy me, because I fully intend to watch content with black bars and play video games. I'd also feel better if I saw more "success stories" of users who have had their screens for a while (especially Panasonic ST50's) and frequently abuse them with no resulting IR.


----------



## dmaul1114

I'd skip plasma for that usage.


No way to have total piece of mind if you're having that much 4:3 content, static images from the PC etc. It can be done without IR with caution and watching how long you keep static bars and logos up, varying content etc. But that's not the same freedom and flexibility you're talking about. I'd look into an LED set for your uses, or a regular LCD.


I worry a little with my new plasma as I play some games and watch a good bit of ESPN. But I mix up my usage a lot naturally as I'm into sports, TV, movies and games so I'll seldom have repeated long sessions with the same content/logos/huds etc. displayed.


----------



## MeelaPo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ispeck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22802429
> 
> 
> eff it
> 
> I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
> 
> if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back
> 
> like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that
> 
> I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend
> 
> I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity



Greatest post ever. I'd really like to hear your experience with just using the TV. I'm really on the fence with getting a plasma and it would bother me to no end if there was image retention because I just watched a hockey game and used the TV that I paid almost $4000 (in Canada with the service plan) to get. Kudos to you!


----------



## dogdaysunrise

After googling and reading many pages about it, I found thisand it is remarkable information and very knowledgable:

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_8.html 



====


Another thing is, that IR is the same as it was some years ago, yes there are the functions like image shifting, pixel orbiting etc.

But if you watch 4:3 a lot or play a video game for long which has a static image somewhere, all the pixel shifting won't help you.


It also states on many sites that you need to run a movie-loop of *24*-48 hours to remove IR, expecially the more stubborn ones. 24 being the minimum.



One site gave this calculation as for how long you should run your "fix":

[QUOTEWhat exactly is an "extended" period? It is hard to answer due to great differences between the phosphors used in various plasma panels. I would assume this to be at least 4 times the period an image or programming that caused burn-in was displayed. So, for example, if you watched a news channel with a non-transparent logo for a month, two hours a day, and this logo left an after-image on your display, I would recommend running the screen saver for at least 30x2x4=240 hours.][/QUOTE]


----------



## dmaul1114

Watched a basketball game on ESPN 2 last night. No hints of IR when I started the slides back up (was at 43 hours of running slides plus whatever of normal watching in between).


Also had no IR after watching the national title game on ESPN/ESPN 3D on Monday as I noted before, and had only run the slides for 5 hours or something at that point.


So I don't think there's a lot of harm IR wise in just using the TVs normally from the get go as long as your normal usage isn't hours on end with the same static images and you don't have the contrast way up (have it in the 70-80 range, mines been on 75-78 as I fiddle with it when watching).


----------



## dogdaysunrise

This is what I want to know, how many hours are too many and when does ir occur?


I have been told at best buy not to worry about ir and that it takes a day or days to cause ir.


Yet on my gt 50 8hours of playing on 2 days already caused a very stubborn ir.


----------



## dmaul1114

The best I can gather is that there are no harm and firm answers to that and it varies by the panel, picture settings, how much content is being mixed outside of gaming etc.


If I gamed more than I do (rarely more than 2-3 hour sessions, rarely more than 2 or 3 times a week) I'd get an LED set personally. I just wouldn't have enough peace of mind with a plasma, and would sacrifice black levels etc. personally to have a set where I didn't have to worry about IR. I still have some doubts about going plasma as there's some things I used to do (have ESPN on in the background for hours) that I'll never be comfortable doing on my plasma. But the more I think about it, the more I think it's smarter to just only have a TV on when actively being watched anyway and just play music etc. when working around the house. So I'll likely stick with it since I haven't noticed any IR from my normal usage during the break in period so far.


Will probably play some Borderlands 2 tonight, and will report whether I notice any IR after that.


----------



## davelanger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22811442
> 
> 
> The best I can gather is that there are no harm and firm answers to that and it varies by the panel, picture settings, how much content is being mixed outside of gaming etc.
> 
> 
> If I gamed more than I do (rarely more than 2-3 hour sessions, rarely more than 2 or 3 times a week) I'd get an LED set personally. I just wouldn't have enough piece of mind with a plasma, and would sacrifice black levels etc. personally to have a set where I didn't have to worry about IR. I still have some doubts about going plasma as there's some things I used to do (have ESPN on in the background for hours) that I'll never be comfortable doing on my plasma. But the more I think about it, the more I think it's smarter to just only have a TV on when actively being watched anyway and just play music etc. when working around the house. So I'll likely stick with it since I haven't noticed any IR from my normal usage during the break in period so far.
> 
> 
> Will probably play some Borderlands 2 tonight, and will report whether I notice any IR after that.



def let me know, because i played COD and also RPGs that have HUDs. I am thinking next week after 100 hours on my plasma, I should hook up my xbox to my new TV and see how a gaming session goes, then see if i get IR or not, then make a choice about returning the TV or not. My old plasma from samsung (it was a 4254 720p) never got IR at all and I could game on that for 8 hours straight.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

The thing is, as amazing as movies look on a plasma, so do games, plus a plasma is perfect for gaming due to the low response time of 0.01 –0.001 ms.


----------



## dmaul1114




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davelanger*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22812421
> 
> 
> def let me know, because i played COD and also RPGs that have HUDs. I am thinking next week after 100 hours on my plasma, I should hook up my xbox to my new TV and see how a gaming session goes, then see if i get IR or not, then make a choice about returning the TV or not. My old plasma from samsung (it was a 4254 720p) never got IR at all and I could game on that for 8 hours straight.



I played Borderlands 2 for about three hours straight last night, then watched 30 minutes or so of TV.


No signs of IR while watching TV, nor anything visible on the slides when I put them back up afterward.


Was at 62 hours of slides, plus whatever normal watching, when I started gaming last night.


----------



## StrikerZ

When I first got my TV I played Minecraft and Borderlands 2 for a few hours and didn't notice anything afterwards.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

OK, update....if anyone cares.

Panasonic can repair it, but it won't be covered under warranty, fair enough.


I am trying now to run a movieloop for 24 hours, extend it to 48 if necessary. it's either gone then, diminished or if still there I live with it

and we call it burn in.


----------



## StrikerZ

I feel this thread is scaring people more than they should be.


Before purchasing my TV is was so scared of IR. Now I have it and have game'd a good bit on it. It isn't noticeable in anything but when I look for it. I tend to play for a while when I do play, but mostly once or twice a week.


----------



## StrikerZ

I feel this thread is scaring people more than they should be.


Before purchasing my TV is was so scared of IR. Now I have it and have game'd a good bit on it. It isn't noticeable in anything but when I look for it. I tend to play for a while when I do play, but mostly once or twice a week.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

It shouldn't, according to Panasonic IR becomes an issue afer 6-8 hours. This is exactly what I did, playing one game for 8.


So for everybody else and 90% of all people it wont be an issue, hardly anyone plays a game that long, no movie on TV is that long and if you have the TV stations logo glowing bright and white in one corner, it gets interrupted by commercials.


So for gaming and movies buy a Plasma and be and stay happy!!!!! You won't regret it!


We had our Panny for almost 3 months now and me and my wife are still blown away by the picture this baby produces.



=========


Soon this will be all fixed with OLED's, the popping colors, the deepest of blacks etc.....

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2024911/oled-and-4k-at-ces-2013-the-fantasy-and-the-reality-video-.html


----------



## lee63

I'll be getting a new plasma this year, cant stand the blooming on my HX909, How do you figure out hours for the first 200-300 ? do you just keep track or is there some kind of sub menu ?


I wish that TV stations would shift they're logos now and then, I like to watch Nascar and being a 4 hour race its highly likely I'll get some kind of IR from the FOX, TNT or ESPN logos.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

There is a sub menu that you can access, at least on a panasonic, I'm sure other manufacturers have it too.


It's not easy to get to as users are not supposed to tweak the settings in that menu.

It's like holding the volume button on the TV up for a couple of seconds while holding another on the remote.


Again this is about a panasonic I don't know how it works on a Samsung, but you can google it or if you are getting a panasonic I have the exact procedure saved in my email and could post it if you need it.


----------



## lee63




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22822813
> 
> 
> There is a sub menu that you can access, at least on a panasonic, I'm sure other manufacturers have it too.
> 
> 
> It's not easy to get to as users are not supposed to tweak the settings in that menu.
> 
> It's like holding the volume button on the TV up for a couple of seconds while holding another on the remote.
> 
> 
> Again this is about a panasonic I don't know how it works on a Samsung, but you can google it or if you are getting a panasonic I have the exact procedure saved in my email and could post it if you need it.


Thanks for the reply, I don't need it right now as I wont be getting the TV until I get my tax refund. So basically its the same procedure to access the sub menu from year to year....I have no plans on messing with any of the settings, I just want to check the hours and make sure I break it in right.


The reason I got the HX909 was to avoid the IR/burn in issue, but overall I'm just not happy with it. I'm hoping this Panny ST60 55" is a little better than what I have now.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Update: I know have the TV running for 36 hours continously. Regular watching and playing games during daytime, movieloop with USB stick during the night.

The IR isn't gone, but much much better. It's now almost impossible to see during a movie and only slightly noticeable when running white slides.

I assume it really will go away over time and I might just do another 36-48hrs next weekend.


----------



## dmaul1114

Easy enough to log hours on the slides with pen and paper. I used the Penultimate app on my iPad. Just noted the time I started the slides, and had the total written down and just updated everytime I turned the slides off and used the TV.


I just ran the slides while at work and asleep until I hit 100 hours, so wasn't a big deal to log. More of an issue if you wanted to log all use and/or for more than 100 hours I guess.


----------



## blaket81

My panasonic tv i bought last year seems to have aquired IR. I never did anything in the way of break in or calibrate, it is a P55ST50. Im not sure if it is IR or not actually because i can only see it in bright or white scenes/screens. If you are not able to see it at all times is it still IR?


----------



## dmaul1114




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22828690
> 
> 
> My panasonic tv i bought last year seems to have aquired IR. I never did anything in the way of break in or calibrate, it is a P55ST50. Im not sure if it is IR or not actually because i can only see it in bright or white scenes/screens. If you are not able to see it at all times is it still IR?



Yep.


A lot of IR tends to only be noticeable on light colored slides or light scenes.


----------



## blaket81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22828810
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> 
> A lot of IR tends to only be noticeable on light colored slides or light scenes.



Its safe to say then that this was the first and last time i will buy a plasma, i never leave things paused or anything of the sort, and if im going to be away from the tv for more than 2 minutes i always turn it off.


----------



## dmaul1114

It's still likely temporary and will clear up when you watch full screen content or other channels.


----------



## StrikerZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22828869
> 
> 
> Its safe to say then that this was the first and last time i will buy a plasma, i never leave things paused or anything of the sort, and if im going to be away from the tv for more than 2 minutes i always turn it off.


99% sure it isn't permanent.


It will most likely go away pretty quickly.


Nothing I would worry about tbh.


----------



## davelanger

is it bad to keep getting IR over and over again>

for example, if I play a game and get IR from the HUD, then It goes away after a few days, and I play that game again, its going to IR again.

Is that a bad thing, will it become perm? I played a game today for 30 mins and the HUD was IR'd in on the wipe screen.


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Technically yes, if it was there at first it can come again.

However the more hours you have on your TV the less likely you will get ir, at least that's how I understand it.


Last update for now:

After solid 48hours of running my ir is almost gone. If I had to do it over again I would not run slides or pixel jogger and alikes and go straight to regular continuous watching.

I also would buy that TV again, the picture blows me away everytime and I rather deal with ir than not having this amazing picture quality.


----------



## davelanger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22830734
> 
> 
> Technically yes, if it was there at first it can come again.
> 
> However the more hours you have on your TV the less likely you will get ir, at least that's how I understand it.
> 
> 
> Last update for now:
> 
> After solid 48hours of running my ir is almost gone. If I had to do it over again I would not run slides or pixel jogger and alikes and go straight to regular continuous watching.
> 
> I also would buy that TV again, the picture blows me away everytime and I rather deal with ir than not having this amazing picture quality.



I think im just gonna start gaming for real and watching what I want now to see how the TV handles IR. And if it cant, Ill just return it. Its too bad I can game all i want and watch any station and I dont get any hint of IR on my 6 year old plasma tv


----------



## blaket81

I think my ir is coming from netflix, so im just going to stay away from it and see if it goes away. When youre in netflix theres this box over which title is currently selected, this box does not move, when you arrow in any direction it just scrolls titles through the box. I go through sperts where i hardly ever use netflix or i use it a lot. Lately it has been alot, this is the only thing that could cause it, i dont leave stuff up or the the tv on and when i game its only for like a half hour a sitting. Plus the ir im seeing pretty much looks like that box.


----------



## y2j420

I just got burn in, not image retention, on my Panasonic PT60ST30...I must have gotten it from Black Ops 2 as I can see my ammo and Scorestreaks imprinted on the bottom right of my screen...


I have run Avatar on full contrast 4 times now over night (I've had it for at least 2 weeks now) and it is still there...it is reduced, but there...I can only see if on light green or white slides and occasionally on light backgrounds during movies...I also ran a solid while slide on my TV for 2 hours last night with minimal change...


I had purchased an extended warranty from HHGregg and, at the time of purchase in October 2011, they said the warranty would cover anything (accidental damage and all), but when I went to the store to inquire, they said burn in is not covered...


I suffer from OCD and while the burn in can't really be seen during normal TV usage, knowing it is there bothers me...


I called Panasonic and, as expected, they won't cover it under warranty, but gave me a name of a company for repairs...Panasonic couldn't give me a rough estimate on how much it would cost to repair...


I'm guessing I could keep running the slides and Avatar all the time, but it is a hopeless cause (I think)...


Reading back on some previous threads, I can 100% confirm that burn in, even on these newer plasma TV's, is still alive and well...even with pixel orbiter, the scrolling bar, and breaking in the TV (which I had done 3 fold), burn in can and will occur...I owned a plasma before (Panasonic) and it wasn't as sensitive to burn in as this one...


----------



## Wolowizard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22831674
> 
> 
> I just got burn in, not image retention, on my Panasonic PT60ST30...I must have gotten it from Black Ops 2 as I can see my ammo and Scorestreaks imprinted on the bottom right of my screen...
> 
> 
> I have run Avatar on full contrast 4 times now over night (I've had it for at least 2 weeks now) and it is still there.*it is reduced*, but there...I can only see if on light green or white slides and occasionally on light backgrounds during movies...I also ran a solid while slide on my TV for 2 hours last night with minimal change...



Well, you can feel better, because that's not burn in.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22831674
> 
> 
> I suffer from OCD and while the burn in can't really be seen during normal TV usage, knowing it is there bothers me...



You're certainly not alone in that. But I think a lot of people would be a lot happier with their TV if they'd just enjoy it instead of actively searching out problems.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22831674
> 
> 
> I'm guessing I could keep running the slides and Avatar all the time, but it is a hopeless cause (I think)...
> 
> 
> Reading back on some previous threads, I can 100% confirm that burn in, even on these newer plasma TV's, is still alive and well...even with pixel orbiter, the scrolling bar, and breaking in the TV (which I had done 3 fold), burn in can and will occur...I owned a plasma before (Panasonic) and it wasn't as sensitive to burn in as this one...



I don't think it's hopeless. I'd just watch a variety of full-screen content without any static images. Stay away from the slides, they're just driving you crazy. Can you provide any actual evidence of burn in to support your 100% claim? I'm sure that it's happened on recent models, but I would imagine that the circumstances were pretty extreme.


----------



## y2j420




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wolowizard*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22831764
> 
> 
> Well, you can feel better, because that's not burn in.
> 
> I don't think it's hopeless. I'd just watch a variety of full-screen content without any static images. Stay away from the slides, they're just driving you crazy. Can you provide any actual evidence of burn in to support your 100% claim?



I've experienced image retention in the past on my previous plasma and this plasma TV...the IR would be gone within 2 hours or so of full screen, non-static images...I'm a gamer, I've had excessive sessions on my plasma TV's that SHOULD have caused burn in, but on my old 50" plasma it would, again, be gone within a couple of hours and was normally seen only on dark sections of the screen, as opposed to light...


On this TV though, the residual marks appear on light backgrounds meaning the phosphors have aged considerably more than its surrounding area, thus causing the IR/burn in...


The burn in seems to have reduced a bit, but there are still sections of it that haven't changed in any way, shape, or form...this leads me to believe that the out-lying edges of the HUD (that was burnt in) wasn't as severely burned in or retained as the middle portion...the edges may clear up from full screen use, but the center of the HUD area is permanently damaged...all from playing LESS than I did on my previous TV...it's a real shame as I expected Panasonic's quality to have gone up, not down in the 5 years since I had bought my old TV...


----------



## StrikerZ

Wouldn't that be IR, still? I didn't know you can reduce burn in.


And your old TV was exactly that. An old TV. That much time of use made it more resistant to IR.


----------



## y2j420

It's not "reducing" the entire portion though...the outlying edges seem to be less defined, but the center of the burnt in area is exactly as it was when I first found it...the center is where it was the brightest for that period of time...


I'm hoping I'm wrong and that it is only IR, but having owned plasma TV's for the past 6 years, I've never experienced this significant of an image problem due to this minimal of use as I have since I bought the new TV...


In regards to my old TV, I could've played Black Ops 2 on it for the same period of time (within that TV's same amount of use) and it wouldn't have retained or burnt in that image the same as my new TV has...


----------



## dogdaysunrise

I just downloaded the tetris demo on Xbox live. I played it for not even five minutes and I could clearly see the outline of the frame where the tiles fall down. I ran slides and it went away in a minute.

I tried it again, played tetris for 3 minutes, went back to Xbox home and I could clearly see the frame again.

So this must be the worst game to get IR or burn in, strangely it is a blue frame, not white not bright, but seems very bad.


----------



## y2j420

Effectively any game or thing you display on your TV with a static image will cause image retention...what you're experiencing is normal and easily cleared away...


In my instance, I had 3 - 4 hours (off and on) of Black Ops 2 on my plasma and the HUD portion where the bright yellow/white ammo display and score streak logos are burned into my TV...I have run everything under the sun for well over 15 hours and it is still there...


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22851619
> 
> 
> Effectively any game or thing you display on your TV with a static image will cause image retention...what you're experiencing is normal and easily cleared away...
> 
> 
> In my instance, I had 3 - 4 hours (off and on) of Black Ops 2 on my plasma and the HUD portion where the bright yellow/white ammo display and score streak logos are burned into my TV...I have run everything under the sun for well over 15 hours and it is still there...



15 hours won't cut it!


Like I reported in my previous posts, I ran slides for 3 hours, a youtube pixel fix video for 8, pixel jogger for 5 hours.

Nothing helped. Then i read the website I quoted somewhere up above or on the previous page...anyway......I let mt TV run for 48 hours straight.

Regular TV watching during the day and some gaming and then a 1 hour "movie" from a USB stick in a loop overnight and during the day when i was at work.

IR is almost completely gone. Probably needs another 48 to do the rest.

Try that.


----------



## y2j420

Well then, let me ask this: When does it stop being image retention and is actually burn in? In a sense, how long must the retained image be on the screen and residual before you just stop trying to fix it and accept that it is burned in?


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Good question, but I highly doubt 3-4 hours of black ops caused burn in.

As far as I undertand it, IR will at some point turn into burn in but it takes a long time.

If you played it for days on end I would say you got burn in.

But a couple of hours...... even if you played like me for 8 you will have a more stubborn IR but no burn in and it will go away over time. Since it slowly goes away and the 48 hours almost got rid of it completely is an indication to me that it's IR and not burn in otherwise it would not get any better.


EDIT: When I talked to Panasonic on the phone I asked that question.....the guy said that from 6-8hours continously will cause IR.

Longer hours and frequent display of same image will then cause burn in.


----------



## mvc753

That AC3 life meter must be an IR monster. I've had my VT50 for two months and haven't seen a single bit of IR until today. I've been playing AC3 for a couple hours each day and I guess I finally reached the limit and got IR from the life meter. Really noticeable on solid bright backgrounds. Hopefully it goes away with regular use..


----------



## Idec Sdawkminn

Here's the video I used to burn in. I captured it off a website. It provides a lot of differing colors and is cool to watch. Don't let the black bars fool you. They aren't there at full screen.




 https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7g0tc4l9jgjcpt/Infinite%20Oz.avi


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Idec Sdawkminn*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960_40#post_22856257
> 
> 
> Here's the video I used to burn in. I captured it off a website. It provides a lot of differing colors and is cool to watch. Don't let the black bars fool you. They aren't there at full screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7g0tc4l9jgjcpt/Infinite%20Oz.avi


Why does it stutter so much?


----------



## Idec Sdawkminn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22856817
> 
> 
> Why does it stutter so much?


Well, my video capture program sucks and I can't get the flash file correctly from the website to convert into a video. If I capture it with a different codec to make it smoother, then it makes the raw file too big and the program crashes.


I just now realized I can use Fraps and set it to capture Windows Aero and it will capture it smoothly, so I did that and I'm processing the video now. I'll replace the Youtube and Dropbox ones with this new one and update the links. It will also contain the audio in case someone wants to listen to it.


----------



## mvc753

I've been running the pixel flipper on the Disney WOW disc for about 18 hrs now, and it seems to have cleared up my IR by about 50%.


----------



## jerrolds

Does the WoW flipper work better than the scrolling bars?


I believe theres also a CD you can download for free that mimic's antannae noise - ill try and hunt it down when i get home


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22859862
> 
> 
> Does the WoW flipper work better than the scrolling bars?
> 
> 
> I believe theres also a CD you can download for free that mimic's antannae noise - ill try and hunt it down when i get home



I don't know for sure. I went with the WOW flipper because I could run it for more than 15 minutes without babysitting it.


----------



## dmaul1114

The WOW pixel flipper is more or less like the old TV snow patterns.


Finally noticed some IR on my 55" UT50. Had it on CNN for the inauguration stuff for 2 or 3 hours this afternoon and noticed the "Live on CNN" and inauguration logos faintly when watching a little basketball--could see it against the light court. And noticeable on the screen wiper and a white slide. Played a game for 3 hours or so (Borderlands 2) and that took care of it. Do have a tad of IR from the hud, but not noticeable watching TV (including basketball), just faintly on a white slide. So that should fade even faster than the CNN logo as that was lot more noticeable.


So I should be fine with IR on this set since I seldom do anything like game or CNN for more than 3-4 hours at a time and mix content up a lot naturally.


----------



## therealjustin

I noticed mild image retention on my three year old U1 after watching CNN today as well. It went away shortly after.


----------



## mvc753

My IR is still pretty visible. I'm not ready to call it permanent by any means, but it's being very stubborn. I'm going to run an all-white screen on vivid all day today and see if that does anything. I also just noticed that in Game mode, by default the pixel orbiter is off. So that's nice. I've gone in and turned the Game mode settings way down and turned on the orbiter so I can hopefully avoid this problem in the future. I wish I had checked to make sure the orbiter was on before playing.


----------



## dmaul1114

The orbiter doesn't help that much since it just shifts things around a few pixels. So HUDs, logos etc. would just get a bit smudgier IR from being shifts around a bit in the same general spot.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22862317
> 
> 
> The orbiter doesn't help that much since it just shifts things around a few pixels. So HUDs, logos etc. would just get a bit smudgier IR from being shifts around a bit in the same general spot.



I thought that might be the case, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.


----------



## dmaul1114

I still think it may help a tiny bit though in terms of making the IR a little less defined (the smudging of logos etc. may stand out more than an exact IR of the logo) and thus less noticeable. I have noticed IR more since I turned it off--though that could just be coincidence. In any case I turned it back on for now as I can't tell any difference in the picture with it on vs. off.


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22855755
> 
> 
> That AC3 life meter must be an IR monster. I've had my VT50 for two months and haven't seen a single bit of IR until today. I've been playing AC3 for a couple hours each day and I guess I finally reached the limit and got IR from the life meter. Really noticeable on solid bright backgrounds. Hopefully it goes away with regular use..



Well you and I have the exact same issue! Playing AC3 and now having IR.

Again, I tryed to run slides for 3 hours, a youtube pixel fix video for 8, pixel jogger for 5 hours.

Nothing helped!

Then I let my TV run for 48 hours straight.

Regular TV watching during the day and some gaming and then a 1 hour "movie" from a USB stick in a loop overnight and during the day when i was at work.

IR is almost completely gone. Probably needs another 48 to do the rest.

Try that.


Yeah, seems AC3 is a burn in IR monster.


I had this video saved to a USB stick and ran a loop over night and during daytime, I have the HD version saved, it seems to have been taken off of

youtube, this is only low quality, beautiful video regardless though:








> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22862310
> 
> 
> My IR is still pretty visible. I'm not ready to call it permanent by any means, but it's being very stubborn. I'm going to run an all-white screen on vivid all day today and see if that does anything. I also just noticed that in Game mode, by default the pixel orbiter is off. So that's nice. I've gone in and turned the Game mode settings way down and turned on the orbiter so I can hopefully avoid this problem in the future. I wish I had checked to make sure the orbiter was on before playing.



Like dmaul said, it won't help, the image is too big. I had mine enabled from the getgo and I also got the AC3 health bar IR.

My TV has now 779hours, got calibrated today and I hope the older it gets the less prone it will be to IR and I also hope the AC3 health bar will completely vanish over time, I'll report back for sure.


.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22865889
> 
> 
> Well you and I have the exact same issue! Playing AC3 and now having IR.
> 
> Again, I tryed to run slides for 3 hours, a youtube pixel fix video for 8, pixel jogger for 5 hours.
> 
> Nothing helped!
> 
> Then I let my TV run for 48 hours straight.
> 
> Regular TV watching during the day and some gaming and then a 1 hour "movie" from a USB stick in a loop overnight and during the day when i was at work.
> 
> IR is almost completely gone. Probably needs another 48 to do the rest.
> 
> Try that.
> 
> 
> Yeah, seems AC3 is a burn in IR monster.
> 
> 
> I had this video saved to a USB stick and ran a loop over night and during daytime, I have the HD version saved, it seems to have been taken off of
> 
> youtube, this is only low quality, beautiful video regardless though:
> 
> 
> Like dmaul said, it won't help, the image is too big. I had mine enabled from the getgo and I also got the AC3 health bar IR.
> 
> My TV has now 779hours, got calibrated today and I hope the older it gets the less prone it will be to IR and I also hope the AC3 health bar will completely vanish over time, I'll report back for sure.
> 
> 
> .



I saw your initial posts about AC3 and I felt compelled to chime in and offer some moral support! It's funny, because I didn't worry at all about IR then there it was out of nowhere, so I came to the forum looking for my own moral support and found your posts and immediately felt much better. I'm very glad to hear your IR is going away. I've been running my original break in slides on Vivid again for around 48 hours now, and I *think* the IR has lessened a bit, but it's definitely nowhere near gone. You've given me hope that this will eventually go away.


This is my first plasma and I was just of the mindset that IR wouldn't happen to me. I'm very careful with my stuff, but it turns out I didn't know enough about how the various TV settings apply on this model and didn't have everything setup properly to help reduce IR when gaming. I've got the contrast turned down to 65 on Game mode now, and will definitely be running the pixel orbiter from now on whether it helps or not. I also probably won't game at all until I get a lot more hours on the set.


----------



## dmaul1114

I've been noticing some more IR on my 55UT50 the past couple days too (had it for about two weeks). CNN, ESPN, ammo counts from Borderlands 2. But all have gone away in 15 minutes or so of watching full screen content. But still a little unsettling as I can't leave the TV on ESPN for hours like I did with my old RPTV etc.


The buzz annoys me more--have at tech coming to try to fix that in a couple hours. Between that and the temp IR that concerns me a bit, I'll definitely be exchanging it for an LED if he can't quiet the buzz enough that I can't hear it from the couch when watching normally. Amazon is sold out of the UT50 line up and I don't have the patience to play panel lottery anyway.


If it gets quieted down enough to be tolerable, I'll keep it. I can live with managing the IR to get the better picture vs. LED. But I can't live with that and the buzz. It has an April build date (despite just getting it two weeks ago), so I'm hoping it just doesn't have the newer screws and will be an easy fix to quiet it down enough.


----------



## jerrolds

I exchanged my Panasonic 60ST50 for a Samsung E6500 because of the easily obtained stuborn IR. I would watch broadcasts with a solid white logo (so dumb of them) for an hour or so - and IR would not disappear after hours and hours of snow/scrolling bars/slides. It was only visible on solid color slides - but i was being careful for the first 400hrs, and was scared to think of how the bad IR would be if i wasnt babysitting constantly.


My return window hit around the 400hr mark, and it seemed like IR seemed to lessen - but I exchanged anyways.


Saved $400 and got the PN60E6500, no IR!


BUT THE BUZZ.


Now i'm seriously considering going back to the ST50 - the IR i can live with and manage, the buzz from the Sammy is just too much sometimes and unavoidable. Thats and the black/contrast is much better on the ST50.


3D on the Sammy i think looks better tho


----------



## talltitan

For folks that want to game on a plasma and are worried about IR I suggest using the WOW Disney pixel flipper for IR prevention.


Long story short had IR from Mass Effect 3 multiplayer HUD after about 30 hrs of gaming over a six week period panel had about 700 plus hours on it before ever playing ME3. The Sammy 51D550 Panel ended up getting replaced by the manufacturer six months later with the IR still there having not faded.


At the time of replacement I picked up the WOW disc and what I do is after a gaming session especially after an ME3 multi one is bring up the break in color slides, identify the HUD IR, play the WOW pixel flipper for 15 minutes with the settings cranked dynamic, contrast 100, brightness 100, cell 20/max, sharpness 100 in just scan or screen fit 1:1.


After 15 minutes I flip back to the color slides and check for the HUD and outside of ME3's HUD and a couple other obnoxious HUD's there has been nothing left behind on games I play, and I play many different games across all platforms.


What ME3 and a couple other game HUD's will due is it will basically breakdown from a very identifiable HUD to a very faint small unrecognizable grey blob or blobs against the color slides, at that point I just go back to watching TV like regular, check the slides later and by then it will have completely gone. I have ran the flipper longer after playing ME3 multi just to see if it will completely go away and it will it just takes another 10 or 15 minutes.


For a comparison when I got the IR from ME3 the set had about 700 to 800 hrs on it with about 30 hrs over a six week span of ME3 multi being played, six months later IR still present.


All new replacement panel 4 months later with 60 hrs of ME3 multiplayer HUD using the method described above and no problems what so ever.


For longer gaming session with more obnoxious HUDS you may need to or want to run the flipper longer.


Hope this helps anyone with fears of gaming on a Plasma.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talltitan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22871615
> 
> 
> For folks that want to game on a plasma and are worried about IR I suggest using the WOW Disney pixel flipper for IR prevention.
> 
> 
> Long story short had IR from Mass Effect 3 multiplayer HUD after about 30 hrs of gaming over a six week period panel had about 700 plus hours on it before ever playing ME3. The Sammy 51D550 Panel ended up getting replaced by the manufacturer six months later with the IR still there having not faded.
> 
> 
> At the time of replacement I picked up the WOW disc and what I do is after a gaming session especially after an ME3 multi one is bring up the break in color slides, identify the HUD IR, play the WOW pixel flipper for 15 minutes with the settings cranked dynamic, contrast 100, brightness 100, cell 20/max, sharpness 100 in just scan or screen fit 1:1.
> 
> 
> After 15 minutes I flip back to the color slides and check for the HUD and outside of ME3's HUD and a couple other obnoxious HUD's there has been nothing left behind on games I play, and I play many different games across all platforms.
> 
> 
> What ME3 and a couple other game HUD's will due is it will basically breakdown from a very identifiable HUD to a very faint small unrecognizable grey blob or blobs against the color slides, at that point I just go back to watching TV like regular, check the slides later and by then it will have completely gone. I have ran the flipper longer after playing ME3 multi just to see if it will completely go away and it will it just takes another 10 or 15 minutes.
> 
> 
> For a comparison when I got the IR from ME3 the set had about 700 to 800 hrs on it with about 30 hrs over a six week span of ME3 multi being played, six months later IR still present.
> 
> 
> All new replacement panel 4 months later with 60 hrs of ME3 multiplayer HUD using the method described above and no problems what so ever.
> 
> 
> For longer gaming session with more obnoxious HUDS you may need to or want to run the flipper longer.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps anyone with fears of gaming on a Plasma.



Interesting. Thanks for the detailed info. I've been running a combination of the WOW pixel flipper and the color break-in slides for a few days now. The IR has lessened to the point where it is only visible on the gray or white slides, whereas initially it could be seen on just about all the slides. Hopefully I can get it the rest of the way out.


----------



## dmaul1114

That's an awful lot of hassle though. If one is going to game that much to have to go through all that to get rid of IR and keep it from becoming more permanent, might as well just get an LCD/LED for gaming. I know it sucks if you prefer the plasma PQ, but to me peace of mind is worth more to me than PQ. But I'm also not a videophile by any stretch of the imagination.


In any case, the tech came yesterday and couldn't quiet the buzz. So I'm sending it back to Amazon for a 55" Panny LED set (the TC-L55ET5). I'm sure I won't like the picture as much for dark scenes especially. But the buzz was driving me nuts, it will be nice to game as long as I want, leave the set on ESPN all day when working at home etc. with no worries of IR, and to be able to have the blinds open and enjoy the view (the UT50 wasn't watchable if the sun was up unless the blackout blinds are shut).


But it's all to each, their own of course. This is the second time I've tried a plasma set, and the second time I've returned it due to buzzing and IR. The IR I could manage as I don't often game in sessions longer than 2-3 hours--but I do hate having to worry about tickers and logos as I like having ESPN or CNN on as background noise when working at home etc. But the buzzing is just something I'm extra sensitive to and that drives me nuts as it takes me out of shows and movies when I hear the buzz in every bright scene.


Love the PQ of plasma, but those annoyances outweigh it for me personally. Here's to hoping that OLED or some other tech can become affordable and match plasma PQ without the proclivity for buzzing and IR.


----------



## mvc753

I seem to be getting IR very easily all of a sudden. I had the TV on ESPN for around 1 hour last night, and now the ESPN logo and some of the bottom bar they run is hanging around. This is after having no IR initially. Do these things hit a certain point in their life where they retain everything? I'm hoping this clears itself up as time wears on.


----------



## y2j420

Plasmas are supposed to become MORE resilient to IR and burn-in as they age...however, IR is minor since it will go away with time (many times within a couple of minutes)...


Burn in is when the image stays on the screen, effectively, permanently...


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22872957
> 
> 
> Plasmas are supposed to become MORE resilient to IR and burn-in as they age...however, IR is minor since it will go away with time (many times within a couple of minutes)...
> 
> 
> Burn in is when the image stays on the screen, effectively, permanently...



Let's hope that's the case. Is it even possible to get permanent burn-in of something that was on the screen for maybe 2-3 hours a day for a maximum of a week? With other content mixed in?


----------



## rich7sena

Is the Planet Earth bluray good to break in a plasma?


----------



## dogdaysunrise

Another update on my part.

So, I believe it has been 4 weeks since the AC3 IR. My TV has now over 800hours







, I honestly am very surprised I have that many hours on it already, shame.....


Anyway, the AC3 IR is now almost completely gone, when running the scrolling bar in the setup menu, I really have to look for it and it is barely noticable in the white slide.

So I think it really will vanish completely as more time and more hours on the TV will go by.


Right now I always run the scrolling bar after I played video games and I don't play longer than 3hours, then I take a break now.

Further, now that my TV has been calibrated I run the standard mode for gaming and not vivid or game mode anymore.



======

However and on a side note, TV got calibrated and I felt colors are not as nice and white and everything has a yellow tint to it.

After severl phone conversations with the geek squad calibration guy, he assured me this is the way it needs to be and is calibrated 100%.

Well I saw a target commercial and the white background is antique white and not white.

He says a white from a electronic device is different than paper white...???.....but if I want that I should change from warm2 to warm 1 and raise color 10 points.

So I did that and went even down from warm1 to normal. Now in my mind the colors are great and true.


----------



## imcheesehead1

Hi all.


I have burn in on an Elite Pro-101FD from watching 4:3 with gray bars.


Monitor was watched in mostly HD for a few months. Then exclusively 4:3 with gray bars for a few months and I now have burn in on both sides. I have always had orbiter in mode 2. It is very noticeable with white on the screen. or white on black. like when credits roll they look like they have a yellow tint instead of pure white. The whole 4:3 area is darker than either side outside the 4:3 area.


I have downloaded "image break in" that cycles thru several colored screens. I notice the difference on every color but red.


My question is will an image break-in work? Would I be better off leaving it on one color, like white over scrolling thru them? Once I decide to use all colors or just one how long should I run it? And finally should I change contrast or brightness while running it?


THANKS


I just downloaded jscreenfix screensaver. Is that a better option than screen break-in at this point? Thanks again.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22883799
> 
> 
> Anyway, the AC3 IR is now almost completely gone, when running the scrolling bar in the setup menu, I really have to look for it and it is barely noticable in the white slide.
> 
> So I think it really will vanish completely as more time and more hours on the TV will go by.[/SIZE][/SIZE]



Great to hear! I think my AC3 IR has faded somewhat, but it's definitely still there. Here's to hoping it fades over time as yours has.


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imcheesehead1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22884557
> 
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> 
> I have burn in on an Elite Pro-101FD from watching 4:3 with gray bars.
> 
> 
> Monitor was watched in mostly HD for a few months. Then exclusively 4:3 with gray bars for a few months and I now have burn in on both sides. I have always had orbiter in mode 2. It is very noticeable with white on the screen. or white on black. like when credits roll they look like they have a yellow tint instead of pure white. The whole 4:3 area is darker than either side outside the 4:3 area.
> 
> 
> I have downloaded "image break in" that cycles thru several colored screens. I notice the difference on every color but red.
> 
> 
> My question is will an image break-in work? Would I be better off leaving it on one color, like white over scrolling thru them? Once I decide to use all colors or just one how long should I run it? And finally should I change contrast or brightness while running it?
> 
> 
> THANKS
> 
> 
> I just downloaded jscreenfix screensaver. Is that a better option than screen break-in at this point? Thanks again.



It's been said, many times..many ways...and even though it's not christmas.....orbiter won't help you with a 4:3 at all or a larger image like the "usa" letters of that particular station.



I recommend....... and I'm not gonna repeat and explain why and what I said like 100 times in my previous posts........ to let the TV run for 48hours straight, regular watching, movieloop, of course not CNN for 2days. This works imo way better than all the pixel jogger, break in yadda yadda.


=====================




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22889595
> 
> 
> Great to hear! I think my AC3 IR has faded somewhat, but it's definitely still there. Here's to hoping it fades over time as yours has.



I will keep you posted, but it's looking good so far.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22893500
> 
> 
> I will keep you posted, but it's looking good so far.



Any update on your AC3 IR? Mine is still visible. It's most visible on the blue PS3 menu screen, the one for the PS Store, etc. All other times you really have to focus to find it, but on that particular screen it's entirely visible as a dark half circle. I guess it's been almost two weeks now with very little change. I haven't played AC3 or any other game since I first saw the IR.


Dear plasma gods, I promise I will never game on this TV again if this IR goes away!


----------



## iBoB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rich7sena*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22873088
> 
> 
> Is the Planet Earth bluray good to break in a plasma?


1.78:1


Yes. Any 1.78:1 program will work.


----------



## Artsontop

Greetings,

Just got a 65" VT50.. (Chris at Cleveland shameless plug) and I am using the break-in slides along with making sure any other source material fills the screen w/o

hard logos for any length of time. Standard mode is OK for night viewing little weak for day. What do you gurus say about upping the contrast to 76, such as the THX Cinema mode?

I think I read where Dnice prescribes Custom mode where contrast is 100. Bottom line, looking for opinions on break-in settings for contrast and brightness.

Thanks for your input in advance...


----------



## mj79

Quick question guys.. Never owned a plasma, so all the break in info I'm seeing.. Is it necessary or recommended .. Im seeing 100-200 hours of playing, slides?? Not sure what those are, Is it just some sort of on and off color pattern on a loop play? or is the "break in DVD" in post one of this link the slides?


http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only


----------



## Artsontop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mj79*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22915828
> 
> 
> Quick question guys.. Never owned a plasma, so all the break in info I'm seeing.. Is it necessary or recommended .. Im seeing 100-200 hours of playing, slides?? Not sure what those are, Is it just some sort of on and off color pattern on a loop play? or is the "break in DVD" in post one of this link the slides?
> 
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only




Yes, http://www.eaprogramming.com/ is where I downloaded the 1st option, DVD images. I put them on a USB stick and play them in slideshow on slow mode. I am also

watching TV, mainly 16:9 HD , or if SD, being careful to fill the screen and not let a hard logo stay too long...I owned a Panny 58" from '07, never had an IR or burn-in issue,

but unit crashed just after warranty over with a "D" board issue if I remember correctly...I'm just trying to give my new VT50 the best chance for a long life sans IR/burn-in.

It only makes sense to me to expose the panel to these slides for even "seasoning". I see no harm that could be done with method, I would like input about contrast and brightness settings from folks that have used higher settings with a new panel.

For now, I'm erring on the cautious side with Standard mode, the lower contrast and brightness settings...


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor

I dont mean to sound redundant in here but I really didn't have the time to read a 135 page thread and all Im wondering is what is the proper break-in method for a new plasma is and what content to use.


I just picked up a 60" Panny U50 and wanna break it in correctly for the right amount of time and of course set the contrast/brightness setting correctly for break-in. Whats the simple version of what to do? I greatly appreciate any response in advance, Thanks!


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thunder_God_Thor*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4000_50#post_22917115
> 
> 
> I dont mean to sound redundant in here but I really didn't have the time to read a 135 page thread and all Im wondering is what is the proper break-in method for a new plasma is and what content to use.
> 
> 
> I just picked up a 60" Panny U50 and wanna break it in correctly for the right amount of time and of course set the contrast/brightness setting correctly for break-in. Whats the simple version of what to do? I greatly appreciate any response in advance, Thanks!



It's very simple, do the Pixel Jogger aging/stress test/testproof new electronics/improve optimum PQ!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer 


If your tv is new or still in the return periode, do it at least 24+hrs till 5+days, so you can age it, testproof any electronics failures and ensure its longevity directly.

Play the mp4 on repeat with mid/high contrast and low/mid brightness, you can intermittently just watch few hours full screen tv also, to see/verify the improved PQ/aging.


Download HD:

Pixel Jogger 10min.mp4
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nypxl6 


Sample on youtube:




 10min


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thunder_God_Thor*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917115
> 
> 
> I dont mean to sound redundant in here but I really didn't have the time to read a 135 page thread and all Im wondering is what is the proper break-in method for a new plasma is and what content to use.
> 
> 
> I just picked up a 60" Panny U50 and wanna break it in correctly for the right amount of time and of course set the contrast/brightness setting correctly for break-in. Whats the simple version of what to do? I greatly appreciate any response in advance, Thanks!



You can run slides for 100 hours, but it's really only necessary if you want to use D-Nice's official settings, but I believe they only apply to the ST models and higher. Set the TV up in either custom or cinema, whichever you prefer. As for contrast, again I would just set the TV to what looks good to you. Although, it's probably advised to turn the contrast down slightly to take measures against IR. Other than that, it's a general rule of thumb to watch 16x9 full-screen content, and try to avoid static images for the first 100 hours. So you obviously don't want to leave it on ESPN for 4+ hours, keep your content varied and you shouldn't have any issues. Enjoy your new set!


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917128
> 
> 
> It's very simple, do the Pixel Jogger aging/stress test/testproof new electronics/improve optimum PQ!
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer
> 
> 
> If your tv is new or still in the return periode, do it at least 24+hrs till 5+days, so you can age it, testproof any electronics failures and ensure its longevity directly.
> 
> Play the mp4 on repeat with mid/high contrast and low/mid brightness, you can intermittently just watch few hours full screen tv also, to see/verify the improved PQ/aging.
> 
> 
> Download HD:
> 
> Pixel Jogger 10min.mp4
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/nypxl6
> 
> 
> Sample on youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10min



Thanks for that seizure.










Running slides seems pretty normal now by comparison...


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917128
> 
> 
> It's very simple, do the Pixel Jogger aging/stress test/testproof new electronics/improve optimum PQ!
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer
> 
> 
> If your tv is new or still in the return periode, do it at least 24+hrs till 5+days, so you can age it, testproof any electronics failures and ensure its longevity directly.
> 
> Play the mp4 on repeat with mid/high contrast and low/mid brightness, you can intermittently just watch few hours full screen tv also, to see/verify the improved PQ/aging.
> 
> 
> Download HD:
> 
> Pixel Jogger 10min.mp4
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/nypxl6
> 
> 
> Sample on youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10min





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917141
> 
> 
> You can run slides for 100 hours, but it's really only necessary if you want to use D-Nice's official settings, but I believe they only apply to the ST models and higher. Set the TV up in either custom or cinema, whichever you prefer. As for contrast, again I would just set the TV to what looks good to you. Although, it's probably advised to turn the contrast down slightly to take measures against IR. Other than that, it's a general rule of thumb to watch 16x9 full-screen content, and try to avoid static images for the first 100 hours. So you obviously don't want to leave it on ESPN for 4+ hours, keep your content varied and you shouldn't have any issues. Enjoy your new set!




^^^ This is great information both of you. Thanks so much for posting. I really-really appreciate it. I will use that pixel jogger for sure iBrad with low brightness and mid contrast settings and follow the general rules as you mentioned JSpectre. However Im wondering is it really necessary to run the pixel jogger for 24 hours for 5 days!!! ? I suppose that would put it in the 100+ hour range which most people seem to recommend for break-in.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thunder_God_Thor*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917185
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ This is great information both of you. Thanks so much for posting. I really-really appreciate it. I will use that pixel jogger for sure iBrad with low brightness and mid contrast settings and follow the general rules as you mentioned JSpectre. However Im wondering is it really necessary to run the pixel jogger for 24 hours for 5 days!!! ? I suppose that would put it in the 100+ hour range which most people seem to recommend for break-in.



AVS members with 1,000+ posts basically say it will do absolutely nothing on page 2. (other than simply age the panel in a non-harmful way)


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917190
> 
> 
> AVS members with 1,000+ posts basically say it will do absolutely nothing on page 2. (other than simply age the panel in a non-harmful way)



Oh k so there is no harm in running the pixel jogger for that long then is what Im taking away from your post?


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thunder_God_Thor*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917199
> 
> 
> Oh k so there is no harm in running the pixel jogger for that long then is what Im taking away from your post?



Not quite. You understand what the 100 hour bench mark is don't you? It's the minimum time required to age your panel before you should attempt to properly calibrate it. The phosphors burn their hottest and age the fastest in the first 100 hours. As for any IR related benefits, running a 100 hour prep will only reduce IR in the sense that, you are now 100 hours into the life of the panel and it will be slightly more IR resistant. This is no different than if you were to simply watch your set for 100 hours of course. The reason to age the panel is so you can calibrate it the quickest, no other added benefits. And no, I would not advise that particular method. My post was referring to all the advertised PQ enhancements, etc.


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917207
> 
> 
> Not quite. You understand what the 100 hour bench mark is don't you? It's the minimum time required to age your panel before you should attempt to properly calibrate it. The phosphors burn their hottest and age the fastest in the first 100 hours. As for any IR related benefits, running a 100 hour prep will only reduce IR in the sense that, you are now 100 hours into the life of the panel and it will be slightly more IR resistant. This is no different than if you were to simply watch your set for 100 hours of course. The reason to age the panel is so you can calibrate it the quickest, no other added benefits. And no, I would not advise that particular method. My post was referring to all the advertised PQ enhancements, etc.



Yes I understand the 100 hour bench mark. Ah k I catch your drift now (mostly I believe). So in your opinion your thinking the best way to break in the tv for the 1st 100 hours is simply to just watch varying content on the tv avoiding the usual stuff like static images, etc.?


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thunder_God_Thor*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917224
> 
> 
> Yes I understand the 100 hour bench mark. Ah k I catch your drift now (mostly I believe). So in your opinion your thinking the best way to break in the tv for the 1st 100 hours is simply to just watch varying content on the tv avoiding the usual stuff like static images, etc.?



Yes, that's what I'm saying. The purpose of running slides for 100 hours has gotten misconstrued. These are D-Nice's exact words.

*" Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2012 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention."*


Go ahead and enjoy your new set, just be aware that during the first 100 hours you may need to be more careful with it. But even if you do get IR it's only temporary and easily removed with regular viewing.


----------



## dmaul1114




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917207
> 
> 
> The reason to age the panel is so you can calibrate it the quickest, no other added benefits. And no, I would not advise that particular method. My post was referring to all the advertised PQ enhancements, etc.



The other benefit, as you note, is to just get through the finicky first 100 hours quickly so the picture is settled in and one can get it dialed in and use it normally and see how they like it, if they have a lot of IR issues etc. while they're still in the return window. I think that's more the reason to do it for most people since most aren't getting professional calibrations anyway. Just a good way to get it settled down so you can test it under normal usages--also a good stress test--especially if you buy somewhere that only has a two week return period.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917417
> 
> 
> The other benefit, as you note, is to just get through the finicky first 100 hours quickly so the picture is settled in and one can get it dialed in and use it normally and see how they like it, if they have a lot of IR issues etc. while they're still in the return window. I think that's more the reason to do it for most people since most aren't getting professional calibrations anyway. Just a good way to get it settled down so you can test it under normal usages--also a good stress test--especially if you buy somewhere that only has a two week return period.



I agree somewhat, but I think you can use it normally and see how you like it right out of the box. You can still set the TV to have semi-accurate picture quality, but of course after 100 hours you will need to fine tune it again. One reason I can definitely see for doing the slides is if you just don't trust yourself not to screw something up in the first 100 hours.







(not that you could, short of abuse)


I'm still debating on whether or not to run the slides on my new unit, I'm curious just how good D-Nice's settings really are. Odds are I probably won't though, but I'll try to use the settings anyway (after 100 hours), I always have a calibration disc to help fill in the gaps.


----------



## dmaul1114

Agreed.


I think the IR situation really comes down to this.


If you're like me and watch channels like ESPN with static logos, tickers etc. and or play a lot of video games with HUDs etc. just stay away from plasma--or buy one for movies and an LCD for another room for those uses if you can afford it. Ignore the plasma fanboys who say IR isn't an issue--it's not an issue for them as their uses don't involve hours and hours of static images. It will likely be annoying for you if you're gaming 6+ hours regularly and/or leaving it on ESPN and other channels for hours on end every day.


If you don't have static images on the screen for longer than 2-3 hours very often,and naturally vary content a lot (i.e. watch a lot of different channels, watch movies, play a little games or none etc.) then just buy the plasma and use it normally from day one and enjoy your purchase as IR will never be a serious issue for you.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22917925
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> I think the IR situation really comes down to this.
> 
> 
> If you're like me and watch channels like ESPN with static logos, tickers etc. and or play a lot of video games with HUDs etc. just stay away from plasma--or buy one for movies and an LCD for another room for those uses if you can afford it. Ignore the plasma fanboys who say IR isn't an issue--it's not an issue for them as their uses don't involve hours and hours of static images. It will likely be annoying for you if you're gaming 6+ hours regularly and/or leaving it on ESPN and other channels for hours on end every day.
> 
> 
> If you don't have static images on the screen for longer than 2-3 hours very often,and naturally vary content a lot (i.e. watch a lot of different channels, watch movies, play a little games or none etc.) then just buy the plasma and use it normally from day one and enjoy your purchase as IR will never be a serious issue for you.



I am on the same page as you here. Although, I imagine after your set is good and worn in, around 1,000+ hours, you can probably worry less about IR. Depending on your particular set though, it may be more or less prone to IR in its early life. At any rate it's probably not advised to get plasma if you're viewing long hours of static images. I am curious about Samsung though, CNET left a static image on the PN60E6500 for 8 hours and it left no discernible IR. I have my fingers crossed that I hit the GT50 lottery, but at the same time I have to be realistic.


----------



## dogdaysunrise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3990#post_22906087
> 
> 
> Any update on your AC3 IR? Mine is still visible. It's most visible on the blue PS3 menu screen, the one for the PS Store, etc. All other times you really have to focus to find it, but on that particular screen it's entirely visible as a dark half circle. I guess it's been almost two weeks now with very little change. I haven't played AC3 or any other game since I first saw the IR.
> 
> 
> Dear plasma gods, I promise I will never game on this TV again if this IR goes away!



No, still there and doesn't get better.







It's most visible on a movie trailer preview with that green screen of the motion...blabla...association of america.


I am starting to doubt it will ever go completely "all the way" away, plus I noticed now the "usa" network logo in the lower right corner being visible and I don't think

I'm even watching that much usa.










As of today and right now, I think I would not go with a plasma again







, it has too many issues, but what I'm gonna do now since I already have one......I will

enjoy the absolute crap out of it, watching and gaming etc. I don't care anymore.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dogdaysunrise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22929218
> 
> 
> No, still there and doesn't get better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's most visible on a movie trailer preview with that green screen of the motion...blabla...association of america.
> 
> 
> I am starting to doubt it will ever go completely "all the way" away, plus I noticed now the "usa" network logo in the lower right corner being visible and I don't think
> 
> I'm even watching that much usa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of today and right now, I think I would not go with a plasma again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , it has too many issues, but what I'm gonna do now since I already have one......I will
> 
> enjoy the absolute crap out of it, watching and gaming etc. I don't care anymore.



It does seem as if this IR is really only visible when the screen is primarily comprised of a blue or green color, which is the color of the AC3 health bar. Seems as if those pixels have just been aged prematurely.


I also started to notice IR of just about any network logo I watched, but that seems to go away fairly quickly. This AC3 health meter isn't budging one bit, as you said.


The thing is, isn't truly permanent burn-in supposed to take hundreds or thousands of hours of the static content on torch mode to produce? I played this game for a few days in a row, a couple hours at a time. Truly nothing excessive at all. Nothing stays on my TV for any extended period of time, and I'm still getting IR from network logos, etc.


Between this and the fairly excessive buzzing on bright scenes, I'm ready to say I have a defective unit and would like to try to get a Panasonic tech to look at it and see about a replacement or some other remedy. I can't drop $2,500 on a TV and live with a permanent defect after the first month or so. I'm going to give it a few more weeks, and if I see no change in the IR then I'm going to start the warranty process and see where that takes me.


----------



## dmaul1114

Yeah, definitely get a tech out--especially for the buzzing. I got rid of my UT50 as the tech couldn't silence the buzzing and I was getting IR from games and network logos. I was still in my return window thankfully so I got rid of it. I just think plasmas still don't work well for people who play hours of games or watch lots of channels with static logos. The buzzing is just a mixed bag--seems to vary a lot from unit to unit of the same model (some have posted about exchanging in store and comparing side by side and getting a quieter one) as well as how sensitive one is to hearing it and/or being annoyed by it.


As you note, $2,500 is way to much to pay and have to live with things that are annoying you. Have Panny send a tech out and at the least see if they can fix the buzz. If they can't, then hopefully they'll give you a new one and you'll have better luck with both that and IR.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmaul1114*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22930593
> 
> 
> Yeah, definitely get a tech out--especially for the buzzing. I got rid of my UT50 as the tech couldn't silence the buzzing and I was getting IR from games and network logos. I was still in my return window thankfully so I got rid of it. I just think plasmas still don't work well for people who play hours of games or watch lots of channels with static logos. The buzzing is just a mixed bag--seems to vary a lot from unit to unit of the same model (some have posted about exchanging in store and comparing side by side and getting a quieter one) as well as how sensitive one is to hearing it and/or being annoyed by it.
> 
> 
> As you note, $2,500 is way to much to pay and have to live with things that are annoying you. Have Panny send a tech out and at the least see if they can fix the buzz. If they can't, then hopefully they'll give you a new one and you'll have better luck with both that and IR.



I truly can live with the buzzing, but it makes me wonder if it is related in some way to increased IR. I guess there's no way to know, but they seem to follow each other in some cases.


Like I said, I'll give it a few more weeks. I'm out of my return period so there's no hurry at this point. If I don't see any improvement, I'll be calling that uber-special Viera Concierge support line.


----------



## Markb3699

Okay, this is a burn in question. It probably repeats some of the replies here, but I've read through them and am now thoroughly confused. Please bear with me.


I purchased a VT50 two months ago and unfortunately didn't follow the break in procedure. I didn't know until too late. Now after watching one particular news channel continuously for dozens of hours, I've got a faint banner at the top of my screen that is noticeable in light monotone images like a sky. I ran a dvd posted by Scott Wilkinson continuously for a day and a half. Nada. Also used the VT50's screen wipe tool with no improvement. Is this burn in and will it ever go away? Is there anything that will fix this? Will the JScreenFix solution work?


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Markb3699*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22936767
> 
> 
> Okay, this is a burn in question. It probably repeats some of the replies here, but I've read through them and am now thoroughly confused. Please bear with me.
> 
> 
> I purchased a VT50 two months ago and unfortunately didn't follow the break in procedure. I didn't know until too late. Now after watching one particular news channel continuously for dozens of hours, I've got a faint banner at the top of my screen that is noticeable in light monotone images like a sky. I ran a dvd posted by Scott Wilkinson continuously for a day and a half. Nada. Also used the VT50's screen wipe tool with no improvement. Is this burn in and will it ever go away? Is there anything that will fix this? Will the JScreenFix solution work?



There is no way to tell if it will go away or not. You're in the same boat as many of us. My recommendation is just to watch TV as you normally would and try to forget about it. Then check for it again in a few weeks and see if it's still there. I've had no luck with break-in slides, pixel flippers, etc.


----------



## mvc753

Does it mean anything that my IR is now basically invisible on an all white screen, or when running the built-in scrolling bar? I can still see it clear as day on solid colored screens, especially lighter blues and greens, but it's invisible on reds, yellows, and now white.


----------



## Markb3699

Thanks.


----------



## Markb3699




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22929847
> 
> 
> It does seem as if this IR is really only visible when the screen is primarily comprised of a blue or green color, which is the color of the AC3 health bar. Seems as if those pixels have just been aged prematurely.
> 
> 
> I also started to notice IR of just about any network logo I watched, but that seems to go away fairly quickly. This AC3 health meter isn't budging one bit, as you said.
> 
> 
> The thing is, isn't truly permanent burn-in supposed to take hundreds or thousands of hours of the static content on torch mode to produce? I played this game for a few days in a row, a couple hours at a time. Truly nothing excessive at all. Nothing stays on my TV for any extended period of time, and I'm still getting IR from network logos, etc.
> 
> 
> Between this and the fairly excessive buzzing on bright scenes, I'm ready to say I have a defective unit and would like to try to get a Panasonic tech to look at it and see about a replacement or some other remedy. I can't drop $2,500 on a TV and live with a permanent defect after the first month or so. I'm going to give it a few more weeks, and if I see no change in the IR then I'm going to start the warranty process and see where that takes me.



It seems ridiculous to shell out thousands and then find out that IR is considered normal and not covered by the warranty. It may be a common issue, but it's still a problem that TV manufacturers should be responsible for.


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Markb3699*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22937399
> 
> 
> It seems ridiculous to shell out thousands and then find out that IR is considered normal and not covered by the warranty. It may be a common issue, but it's still a problem that TV manufacturers should be responsible for.



I agree. The problem is it's impossible to determine the difference between a truly defective unit and one that has been tortured, especially from the manufacturer's standpoint. This forum is littered with guys that say they play games or watch ESPN all day every day and have never seen a bit of IR, and guys that take every precaution imaginable and still get IR. This is my first plasma so I'm just as confused about it as everyone else.


----------



## y2j420

So it has been about a month now since I first noticed the IR on my TV...I have run it through multiple patterns for extended periods of time...watched regular 1.78:1 TV...and stayed away from static images...


The problem is still there and I have to confirm it is definitely burn in...and, oddly enough, it looks like it has actually gotten WORSE...I don't know why, but the dark parts of the screen where the HUD would be, stand out more now than before...and I haven't played Black Ops 2 on my TV since 1/13/2013...


I'm EXTREMELY disappointed in Panasonic for having such poor burn in protection on their newer plasma TV's...what I was doing on my TV should NOT have caused burn in so easily...unfortunately, TV companies and retailers can put unfair causes into their warranty contracts protecting them from defects in their units and putting the blame solely on the customer (much like LCD panels having a tolerance for stuck/dead pixels during manufacture)...I have always supported plasma and defended it against others when it came to picture quality, but I think I can say this will be my last plasma TV I ever buy...


A sad, sad day for me...


----------



## mvc753




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22972468
> 
> 
> what I was doing on my TV should NOT have caused burn in so easily...



This is the main problem I'm having. I was under the impression that permanent burn-in could only occur from extreme situations, like leaving a static image up for days. But here I am with the Assassin's Creed 3 life meter still visible on my 65VT50 after not playing the game for a month. All caused by a handful of 2-3 hr gaming sessions.


----------



## DarkZelda

Copy/pasted from another thread:


Very disappointed with the quick onset of stubborn IR. Bought a 50UT50 during Black Friday sales week, began to notice IR in early Jan that was not going away with Panasonics so called normal viewing, scrolling bars, etc. This IR didn't look as bad as those posted on google images, so was very optimistic that this would disappear with a little effort.

Spent 3 solid weeks trying to address the problem, running the WOW pixel flipper, the WOW retailer loop (zoomed) and the scrolling bars approximately 8-12 hours a day. Ended up with a Viera menu IR from accessing the scrolling bars. This was very visible on the blue screen of my Sony blu-ray player. Came to realize that my initial IR (that BTW had only somewhat faded) could very well be not user induced as the Viera main menu was only on for maybe 10-20 seconds in the beginning and at the most for 1 min at the end of the scrolling bar.


Phoned Panasonic Canada concierge......... got the standard BS CRAP, " this is not covered by warranty". Protested and asked to speak to a supervisor .......same BS, but was asked if I would like to put in a complaint. You bet! Was phoned the next day by Panasonic Canada, they sent a technician to my house, who took pictures and sent them off to Panasonic. My set is now in the shop, they are running tests.



As I explained to Panasonic, I have not even really used my set other than the break in period and trying to get rid of stubborn IR/BI from nominal use. The way I see it, I can get IR from station logos (which are pretty well on every HD channel), black bars, side bars, ticker bars, game huds and even Panasonic's own menu. GEE, this certainly restricts what I can use my TV for, which is basically nothing but watching 1:85 movies.



We also own a Pioneer Elite Pro-110 FD, and have never had any issues.


----------



## raulflys

right.just don't want to cook my set by leaving it on that long. I have it and my PS3 with the breakin DVD running almost 24 hours now as it is.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mvc753*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22978231
> 
> 
> This is the main problem I'm having. I was under the impression that permanent burn-in could only occur from extreme situations, like leaving a static image up for days. But here I am with the Assassin's Creed 3 life meter still visible on my 65VT50 after not playing the game for a month. All caused by a handful of 2-3 hr gaming sessions.



I had 4:3 burn in on a Pioneer LX-5090 too. Luckily I noticed it early. Thing is, that's the same as widescreen borders, I watch movies on this so in theory will get uneven wear for the widescreen borders. Parents have just picked up a Panasonic plasma and worried about white channel logos.


----------



## DarkZelda




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DarkZelda*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4020#post_22981895
> 
> 
> Copy/pasted from another thread:
> 
> 
> Very disappointed with the quick onset of stubborn IR. Bought a 50UT50 during Black Friday sales week, began to notice IR in early Jan that was not going away with Panasonics so called normal viewing, scrolling bars, etc. This IR didn't look as bad as those posted on google images, so was very optimistic that this would disappear with a little effort.
> 
> Spent 3 solid weeks trying to address the problem, running the WOW pixel flipper, the WOW retailer loop (zoomed) and the scrolling bars approximately 8-12 hours a day. Ended up with a Viera menu IR from accessing the scrolling bars. This was very visible on the blue screen of my Sony blu-ray player. Came to realize that my initial IR (that BTW had only somewhat faded) could very well be not user induced as the Viera main menu was only on for maybe 10-20 seconds in the beginning and at the most for 1 min at the end of the scrolling bar.
> 
> 
> Phoned Panasonic Canada concierge......... got the standard BS CRAP, " this is not covered by warranty". Protested and asked to speak to a supervisor .......same BS, but was asked if I would like to put in a complaint. You bet! Was phoned the next day by Panasonic Canada, they sent a technician to my house, who took pictures and sent them off to Panasonic. My set is now in the shop, they are running tests.
> 
> 
> 
> As I explained to Panasonic, I have not even really used my set other than the break in period and trying to get rid of stubborn IR/BI from nominal use. The way I see it, I can get IR from station logos (which are pretty well on every HD channel), black bars, side bars, ticker bars, game huds and even Panasonic's own menu. GEE, this certainly restricts what I can use my TV for, which is basically nothing but watching 1:85 movies.
> 
> 
> 
> We also own a Pioneer Elite Pro-110 FD, and have never had any issues.




Repair shop has ordered and will be replacing the SC and A boards...not quite sure why, as we never had blinking lights or shut downs. Perhaps someone with electronic knowledge can bring us up to speed as to exactly what are the functions of these boards and how they would relate to iR/IB?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhCalcutta*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only#post_12816311
> 
> 
> I understand from reading the threads here that I don't need to be overly concerned about IR as long as I take care and have broken the set in properly.
> 
> 
> 
> I've successfully completed the first 100 hours. What was surprising, though, was Panasonic recommending that for the next 900 hours, I limit letterbox movies to 15% of my viewing time. That figures to approximately one 2-hour movie per 13 hours of set use.
> 
> 
> 
> All I'm interested in watching is movies (which is why I insisted on best PQ), and most of those movies are letterboxed. (I'd like to watch the movies as intended, so stretching or zooming is not a good solution.)
> 
> 
> 
> Until I reach 1000 hours, I'm willing to run the break-in DVD all day after watching a movie to "make up" for watching it. However, will I need to continue this *forever*?
> 
> 
> 
> Did I make a bad call? I still have time to exchange for an LCD, but I LOVE the picture on my beautiful TH-50PX75U!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping there's someone out there who watches primarily letterboxed movies and can tell me if this is really a concern. Thanks for bearing with me.



You can get screenburn (actually image retention) on LCD too. Just read a thread someone got it on a samsung phone.


Best to stick with this technology. No screenburn.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Muybridge_race_horse_animated.gif


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_22998302
> 
> 
> You can get screenburn (actually image retention) on LCD too. Just read a thread someone got it on a samsung phone.
> 
> 
> Best to stick with this technology. No screenburn.
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Muybridge_race_horse_animated.gif



How old is that post ? Got to be at least 5 years ago


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_22998330
> 
> 
> How old is that post ? Got to be at least 5 years ago



Samsung OLED. So pretty new model?


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_22998564
> 
> 
> Samsung OLED. So pretty new model?



No I meant the post you responded to px75u is a plasma from 2007


----------



## jerrolds

Ya i had a TH50-PX75U i bought in 2008 - and that had zero IR, no break in period as well. But after a few years i noticed that there was ghosting, or i guess very very temporary IR that was visible in dark scenes (was watching animated Batman at the time) and everytime a dark scene with some detailing switched to another dark scene, there was a half second where the old scene was super imposed.


My new ST50 does not have that problem, i suppose because its faster or the 600hz engine or whatever took care of it


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4040_40#post_22998302
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhCalcutta*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only#post_12816311
> 
> 
> I understand from reading the threads here that I don't need to be overly concerned about IR as long as I take care and have broken the set in properly.
> 
> 
> 
> I've successfully completed the first 100 hours. What was surprising, though, was Panasonic recommending that for the next 900 hours, I limit letterbox movies to 15% of my viewing time. That figures to approximately one 2-hour movie per 13 hours of set use.
> 
> 
> 
> All I'm interested in watching is movies (which is why I insisted on best PQ), and most of those movies are letterboxed. (I'd like to watch the movies as intended, so stretching or zooming is not a good solution.)
> 
> 
> 
> Until I reach 1000 hours, I'm willing to run the break-in DVD all day after watching a movie to "make up" for watching it. However, will I need to continue this *forever*?
> 
> 
> 
> Did I make a bad call? I still have time to exchange for an LCD, but I LOVE the picture on my beautiful TH-50PX75U!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping there's someone out there who watches primarily letterboxed movies and can tell me if this is really a concern. Thanks for bearing with me.
> 
> 
> 
> You can get screenburn (actually image retention) on LCD too. Just read a thread someone got it on a samsung phone.
> 
> 
> Best to stick with this technology. No screenburn.
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Muybridge_race_horse_animated.gif
Click to expand...

Link?


EDIT: Googling 'lcd image retention' I see 276,000 results...'plasma image retention' 1,920,000 results...nearly 7 times as many!


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecoscia*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only#post_12556454
> 
> 
> 
> I would Like to know this too. Is it useful to run the breakin DVD overnight every once in awhile, say once or twice a month to make sure everything is wearing evenly?



Not a good idea to run in a break in DVD. Remember reading one, the DVD player went back to the main menu, and stayed on that for hours, causing screen burn.


Just use the TV normally running full screen.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23000155
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> EDIT: Googling 'lcd image retention' I see 276,000 results...'plasma image retention' 1,920,000 results...nearly 7 times as many!



It's not common but I do remember reading owners of LCD's having image retention. See what results you get in the LCD section. It didn't go after hundreds of hours. They're far more durable, and probably a lot better now. Could look into computer forums as they're used as monitors, so static icons and task bar should have IR too.


----------



## sodaboy581




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_22998564
> 
> 
> Samsung OLED. So pretty new model?


OLED is NOT LCD. It's not even close to an "LED LCD". But, yes, Samsung's AMOLED technology which is used in some of their phones, which isn't LCD based at all, does get image retention on occasion.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *devoncom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23007562
> 
> 
> agree,I don't need to be overly concerned about IR as long as I take care and have broken the set in properly too.



Taking care, yes. Breaking in the set, no.


----------



## 77Rivers

A Newbie to plasma.. Looking to buy my first one a Panny St60 when it comes out. I was 110percent locked on this! After reading way too many threads about image intention and so called burn in. People not do doing the slides and people doing the slides and sill getting them. People babying there Tvs ? Should that how it is? If i am going to pay 1800 on a tv and have to watch No espn or shows with logo that stay on the set with out moving why do we go threw this? I called Panasonic customer service and they told me that for the first 200 hours just watch tv that has no logo at all no gaming just movies and shows and make sure you change the channel every 10 to 15 minutes you kidding me? Some on please yet me know can i just buy the tv and watch like normal or do i have to do all controlled watching of what i watch just so i dont get image retention? Thanks


----------



## fatbottom

I even had TV menu screen burn! Bringing up TV menu for a short while, then watching TV you could see the after image, and it stayed there.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23021895
> 
> 
> I even had TV menu screen burn! Bringing up TV menu for a short while, then watching TV you could see the after image, and it stayed there.



Second that, still have an extremely faint M from "Menu".


Then again I can never stop messing with settings, so it's probably my fault it won't go away completely.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *77Rivers*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23021826
> 
> 
> A Newbie to plasma.. Looking to buy my first one a Panny St60 when it comes out. I was 110percent locked on this! After reading way too many threads about image intention and so called burn in. People not do doing the slides and people doing the slides and sill getting them. People babying there Tvs ? Should that how it is? If i am going to pay 1800 on a tv and have to watch No espn or shows with logo that stay on the set with out moving why do we go threw this? I called Panasonic customer service and they told me that for the first 200 hours just watch tv that has no logo at all no gaming just movies and shows and make sure you change the channel every 10 to 15 minutes you kidding me? Some on please yet me know can i just buy the tv and watch like normal or do i have to do all controlled watching of what i watch just so i dont get image retention? Thanks



You're going to have baby it and take precautions. IR is not permanent, but you're not going to enjoy the TV very much if you're constantly seeing it while trying to use the TV. In the first 100 hours you have to be extremely careful viewing static images, phosphors burn their hottest and will cause IR easier than any other time in the TV's life. It's recommended to run slides or watch full-screen non-logo content for the first 100 hours. If you don't do either of those and just watch TV, then you will want to use a reduced contrast setting to the dim the overall picture. Also, be aware it may take from 500-1000 hours before IR no longer becomes an issue. If you aren't willing to work with the TV to enjoy the benefits of plasma, you may just want to go with LED.


Hope that helps.


----------



## sheshechic

Slides are not intended/created to prevent IR- period. They are only meant to age the pixels evenly, and bring the panel closer to the state that D-Nice's was in when he calibrated the one he used for providing his settings.


I don't have the ST but have the GT and I never ran slides and never saw ir with regular content. I ran the scrolling bar once and saw only the faintest hint of ir. I do use the pixel orbiter but can't confidently say that is why I don't get IR. I watch a lot of MSNBC, hubby watches sports but he is a very active channel surfer, we don't game and only occasionally use the web browser. I did spend a lot of time adjusting settings (no menu ir) early on, spent a lot of time with the Denon gui when I first got it (no ir), we use a roku a lot and use the menu for our TIVO a lot.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *77Rivers*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23021826
> 
> 
> A Newbie to plasma.. Looking to buy my first one a Panny St60 when it comes out. I was 110percent locked on this! After reading way too many threads about image intention and so called burn in. People not do doing the slides and people doing the slides and sill getting them. People babying there Tvs ? Should that how it is? If i am going to pay 1800 on a tv and have to watch No espn or shows with logo that stay on the set with out moving why do we go threw this? I called Panasonic customer service and they told me that for the first 200 hours just watch tv that has no logo at all no gaming just movies and shows and make sure you change the channel every 10 to 15 minutes you kidding me? Some on please yet me know can i just buy the tv and watch like normal or do i have to do all controlled watching of what i watch just so i dont get image retention? Thanks



First of all calling Panasonic (or Samsung) customer service and asking them questions about their products is useless and actually counter-productive. They typically don't really know anything about their TVs and if you call 5 different CSRs and ask them all the same question, you'll probably get 5 different answers - all of which will be wrong or just plain stupid. That comment about changing channels every 15 minutes is one of the stupidest things i've heard them say, and if that were true they would have printed it in the manual. It baffles me why they don't train their CSRs on such important concerns such as buzzing and IR. They're seriously misinformed and are really only good for arranging warranty repair - and they kinda suck at that too.


There were millions of Plasmas sold last year but only a very tiny fraction of those people are coming to the forums and reporting issues with IR (or buzzing). You say you've been reading way too many threads but you seem to be focusing on the tiny percent reporting problems, while ignoring the vast majority of the hundreds of 2012 Plasma owners who post here who are specifically stating that they are not having IR problems, or aren't even bringing IR up at all because it's just not an issue on their TVs. If it were such a widespread issue, you'd be seeing thousands of people googling about it, being directed to AVS (the world's leading Plasma TV forum), and the board would be overrun with IR complaints. But it's not.


Yes some people do report that they get persistent IR from a menu being up on their screen or from a channel logo that's been displayed for only an hour that takes a long time to go away, so they obviously got a panel that is abnormally prone to getting IR. Most of us can have the menus up for a long time while we're adjusting the advanced picture settings and get zero IR after closing the menu and resuming viewing. I watched my GT50 normally from day one back in July, and that first weekend i watched Speedchannel and other sports and news all weekend and what little IR i got from the logos and tickers went away within seconds of changing channels, and i was specifically testing it and looking for it, and it just wasn't there. This is normal operation. 8 months later i'm still not getting any persistent IR despite watching Speed and Sports on the weekends and 4 hours of news programming every single day. What little IR i do get still goes away very soon after i change channels. If someone is getting persistent IR from such use that is not going away, then their panel is out-of-spec and that TV needs to be exchanged because it's just not the norm.


If you're so concerned about IR or Burn-In, you can either buy an LCD TV that has poorer picture quality and WAY more issues than a Plasma does and not have to worry about IR at all, or buy a Plasma from a retailer with a good return policy and hope you're not in the small percentage of people that receive a TV that gets persistent IR. If during the first few weeks you find that you're getting stubborn IR, then either have the retailer bring you a new TV or just punt and get an LCD TV and give up all hope of having the best picture quality.


----------



## Skylinestar

How tolerant is today's plasma tv? I'm referring to 95% of the time viewing 4:3 tv contents, with pillar box on the left and right of the tv show. The remaining 5% is to watch movies in their 16:9 or 2.35 glory.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23030334
> 
> 
> How tolerant is today's plasma tv? I'm referring to 95% of the time viewing 4:3 tv contents, with pillar box on the left and right of the tv show. The remaining 5% is to watch movies in their 16:9 or 2.35 glory.



Can't answer you main question, but in my P55VT50 manual on page 28 "Aspect Ratio":


4:3: Standard (Note that "Image retention" of the side bar may occur from displaying it for a long time.)


----------



## Dave_O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23030334
> 
> 
> How tolerant is today's plasma tv? I'm referring to 95% of the time viewing 4:3 tv contents, with pillar box on the left and right of the tv show. The remaining 5% is to watch movies in their 16:9 or 2.35 glory.



Based on my experience with a GT30, I would never recommend a plasma for that type of use. I view 95% in 16:9 and the GT30 is great for the way I use it.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave_O*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23031989
> 
> 
> Based on my experience with a GT30, I would never recommend a plasma for that type of use. I view 95% in 16:9 and the GT30 is great for the way I use it.



and what if you watch movies? Not many movies are 1:85. Most are 2:35.


----------



## Dave_O




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23032095
> 
> 
> and what if you watch movies? Not many movies are 1:85. Most are 2:35.



Some movies I watch are 2:35, more in 1:85, and a few in 4:3. Overall I would guess that 90% of viewing is content that fills the screen. It was the 95% use case of 4:3 content that seemed to me not to be great for a plasma.


----------



## SkyNet14

I am a first time poster and first time plasma owner (Panasonic TC-55UT50). I will try to be brief and to the point. I am a casual gamer, but recently became more active playing COD Black Ops II multiplayer online (PS3). I had a Sony 46" LCD with horrible lag, not to mention the horrible screen uniformity with spotlight corners. I sold that unit to purchas the UT50 for its superior picture quality and above average input lag for gaming. I absolutely love the PQ on this set...no buzzing and no picture banding that some have reported. After running the full screen slides for several weeks, I apprehensively moved my PS3 to this unit. After about 3 days of gaming (several 1 to 1 1/2 hour sessions per day) I was horrifed to see some pretty nasty IR from the static game images

Game mode, contrast 80, brightness 50. I immediatly fired up the full screen slide show on vivid with contrast, brightness and color all at 100. After 2 days of this, the IR seems to be gone. I am now extremely paranoid and unable to enjoy my TV for fear of IR. My panel has approximately 60 hours on it. I have 60 days to return it. Here are some questions:

Will this IR problem get dramatically better as the panel 'breaks in'?

Did I jump the gun trying to game too soon?

Do I just need to lower conrast/brightness?

Should I just return it and get a inferior LCD for my needs?

Its a catch 22....I bought the plasma for superior PQ and gaming performance knowing the risk with IR and now I'm torn on what to do. I would be sad to have to return it because I absolutely love the PQ.

All thoughts and opinions welcome.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkyNet14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23037169
> 
> 
> I am a first time poster and first time plasma owner (Panasonic TC-55UT50). I will try to be brief and to the point. I am a casual gamer, but recently became more active playing COD Black Ops II multiplayer online (PS3). I had a Sony 46" LCD with horrible lag, not to mention the horrible screen uniformity with spotlight corners. I sold that unit to purchas the UT50 for its superior picture quality and above average input lag for gaming. I absolutely love the PQ on this set...no buzzing and no picture banding that some have reported. After running the full screen slides for several weeks, I apprehensively moved my PS3 to this unit. After about 3 days of gaming (several 1 to 1 1/2 hour sessions per day) I was horrifed to see some pretty nasty IR from the static game images
> 
> Game mode, contrast 80, brightness 50. I immediatly fired up the full screen slide show on vivid with contrast, brightness and color all at 100. After 2 days of this, the IR seems to be gone. I am now extremely paranoid and unable to enjoy my TV for fear of IR. My panel has approximately 60 hours on it. I have 60 days to return it. Here are some questions:
> 
> Will this IR problem get dramatically better as the panel 'breaks in'?
> 
> Did I jump the gun trying to game too soon?
> 
> Do I just need to lower conrast/brightness?
> 
> Should I just return it and get a inferior LCD for my needs?
> 
> Its a catch 22....I bought the plasma for superior PQ and gaming performance knowing the risk with IR and now I'm torn on what to do. I would be sad to have to return it because I absolutely love the PQ.
> 
> All thoughts and opinions welcome.



Ran slides for several weeks, 60 hours on it?....










You can always try to get a panel that's more naturally resistant to IR. I personally think that the majority are prone to IR, but some people believe it's the minority of TV's. The panel should get more resistant as it ages, yes. You may have tried to game soon, and those settings are fairly high for a TV that's not even 100 hours old. I wouldn't give up and get an LCD just yet, unless you frequently have long gaming marathons or watch an unusual amount of static TV. I would hold off gaming for the 100 hours or use way lower contrast. After that go ahead and use it how you normally would. If you happen to get IR it's not the end of the world and is easy to manage if you take care of it on a day to day basis. Don't use the D-Nice slides to get rid of IR though. You can either just watch TV or use custom slides when you aren't watching it. I found that bright colorful slides work the best, and be sure to use the short setting for the speed. I run slides overnight if I get any serious IR (like gaming for 2-4+ hours) and it's either gone or almost completely gone the next day. I should add though, that I have the GT50, and I have around 500 hours on it.


----------



## SkyNet14

Complete disclosure....i'm not exactly sure how many hours are on the panel (my instructions for checking hours did not work in SM and I was paranoid about screwing something up so i quickly exited). I will revisit instructions and research more on how to do it as time allows. 60 hours is a rough estimate. I ran the slides overnight on 5 or 6 occassions over the past 3 weeks with varied TV and Blu-ray movies thrown in. Thank you for your input.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkyNet14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23038856
> 
> 
> Complete disclosure....i'm not exactly sure how many hours are on the panel (my instructions for checking hours did not work in SM and I was paranoid about screwing something up so i quickly exited). I will revisit instructions and research more on how to do it as time allows. 60 hours is a rough estimate. I ran the slides overnight on 5 or 6 occassions over the past 3 weeks with varied TV and Blu-ray movies thrown in. Thank you for your input.



What if your device crashed during the night on the screen slides?


It's not worth it. Just use it normally.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23039395
> 
> 
> What if your device crashed during the night on the screen slides?
> 
> 
> It's not worth it. Just use it normally.



I say it's impossible. Nothing will cause it to break.


----------



## fatbottom

ummm I'm talking about your DVD player locking up, and staying on a single test screen, or going back to main menu for hours on end.


I've read a few posts on forums where this has happened. It caused screen burn to the set.


It's not worth it, just watch full screen material as you do, don't have dynamic contrast enabled, and calibrate it.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050#post_23039526
> 
> 
> ummm I'm talking about your DVD player locking up, and staying on a single test screen, or going back to main menu for hours on end.
> 
> 
> I've read a few posts on forums where this has happened. It caused screen burn to the set.
> 
> 
> It's not worth it, just watch full screen material as you do, don't have dynamic contrast enabled, and calibrate it.



Oh, I see. I think he was talking about slides though, via USB. I'm pretty sure there's no way for that to fail, at least it's highly unlikely.


----------



## SkyNet14

Yes, the full screen 'break in' slides from USB is what I was refering to. Theres no way I'm playing back a DVD...too risky for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I will admit, even playing back from the USB does make me a bit nervous. But no issues playing back a slideshow loop so far. Worst fear...it stops and goes to the screen with the thumbnail images and grid !


----------



## Markb3699

Update to my previous post about burn in on my VT50. Called BestBuy as a last resort three months after my original purchase and BestBuy replaced it even though I had no extended warranty. I purchased a two year extension just in case.


----------



## ser_renely

So about 3 days working on my "fox Soccer" logo IR and it has reduced but definitely can see it on the red slides. Hopefully it will continue to fade, over the next week.


----------



## coldengrey15

Have a 55" Panasonic ST50. Have ONLY run the D-Nice phosphor aging precalibration slides

Quick Question about Image Retention "proofing/Run-in"...


1a)Read elsewhere, can't find again, that you should run full screen video, with no more than 25% black bars or static images, during first 1000 hours.

1b)--> Is that correct or sound plausible, ect?


2) Can I use the slide show provided by op, D-Nice, that was intended for pre-calibration phosphor aging, to run for the 1000 hours of full screen for retention proofing?

OR does the aforementioned 1000 hours of viewing need to be of full motion VIDEO? Opposed to static slide show provided for pre calibration?


3a) I'm in process of getting living room ready for the new ST50 and it's just been sitting since pre-christmas....

I DO NOT have any video source components to spare to run burn-in proofing on, while it's just sitting, but HATE to waste opportunity to perform "run-in" image retention proofing now

as it's pretty unlikely that rest of family will comply with the 1000 hours full screen only requirements once it's THE active tv in living room


We play A LOT of video games, so I feel image retention run-in is almost a MUST....


3b) *Can anyone suggest or share 'IR run-in' material I could use - IF STATIC D-NICE slides won't cut it (must be full motion video?)

with a little 8 GB USB memory stick?


Then, how do I get source material to loop/play over and over without user input?*


4) What's the longest I should run tv without a break during the 1000 hour IR run-in?


THANKS a lot. I mean it!!!!


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coldengrey15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23047670
> 
> 
> Have a 55" Panasonic ST50. Have ONLY run the D-Nice phosphor aging precalibration slides
> 
> Quick Question about Image Retention "proofing/Run-in"...
> 
> 
> 1a)Read elsewhere, can't find again, that you should run full screen video, with no more than 25% black bars or static images, during first 1000 hours.
> 
> 1b)--> Is that correct or sound plausible, ect?
> 
> 
> 2) Can I use the slide show provided by op, D-Nice, that was intended for pre-calibration phosphor aging, to run for the 1000 hours of full screen for retention proofing?
> 
> OR does the aforementioned 1000 hours of viewing need to be of full motion VIDEO? Opposed to static slide show provided for pre calibration?
> 
> 
> 3a) I'm in process of getting living room ready for the new ST50 and it's just been sitting since pre-christmas....
> 
> I DO NOT have any video source components to spare to run burn-in proofing on, while it's just sitting, but HATE to waste opportunity to perform "run-in" image retention proofing now
> 
> as it's pretty unlikely that rest of family will comply with the 1000 hours full screen only requirements once it's THE active tv in living room
> 
> 
> We play A LOT of video games, so I feel image retention run-in is almost a MUST....
> 
> 
> 3b) *Can anyone suggest or share 'IR run-in' material I could use - IF STATIC D-NICE slides won't cut it (must be full motion video?)
> 
> with a little 8 GB USB memory stick?
> 
> 
> Then, how do I get source material to loop/play over and over without user input?*
> 
> 
> 4) What's the longest I should run tv without a break during the 1000 hour IR run-in?
> 
> 
> THANKS a lot. I mean it!!!!



DNices slides don't mitigate IR


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coldengrey15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23047670
> 
> 
> Have a 55" Panasonic ST50. Have ONLY run the D-Nice phosphor aging precalibration slides
> 
> Quick Question about Image Retention "proofing/Run-in"...
> 
> 
> 1a)Read elsewhere, can't find again, that you should run full screen video, with no more than 25% black bars or static images, during first 1000 hours.
> 
> 1b)--> Is that correct or sound plausible, ect?
> 
> 
> 2) Can I use the slide show provided by op, D-Nice, that was intended for pre-calibration phosphor aging, to run for the 1000 hours of full screen for retention proofing?
> 
> OR does the aforementioned 1000 hours of viewing need to be of full motion VIDEO? Opposed to static slide show provided for pre calibration?
> 
> 
> 3a) I'm in process of getting living room ready for the new ST50 and it's just been sitting since pre-christmas....
> 
> I DO NOT have any video source components to spare to run burn-in proofing on, while it's just sitting, but HATE to waste opportunity to perform "run-in" image retention proofing now
> 
> as it's pretty unlikely that rest of family will comply with the 1000 hours full screen only requirements once it's THE active tv in living room
> 
> 
> We play A LOT of video games, so I feel image retention run-in is almost a MUST....
> 
> 
> 3b) *Can anyone suggest or share 'IR run-in' material I could use - IF STATIC D-NICE slides won't cut it (must be full motion video?)
> 
> with a little 8 GB USB memory stick?
> 
> 
> Then, how do I get source material to loop/play over and over without user input?*
> 
> 
> 4) What's the longest I should run tv without a break during the 1000 hour IR run-in?
> 
> 
> THANKS a lot. I mean it!!!!



1.) Sounds good for the first 100 hours, not for 1,000


2.) Aging the set for 1,000 hours will make it IR proof in the sense that, after 1,000 hours it will be less susceptible to IR. The same can be said for just watching the set for 1,000 hours however.


3.) Putting more hours on the set will make it "IR-Proof". You can accomplish that just by using it. When you aren't watching anything, running some type of content will help age it further.


4.) At the most you only need to run D-Nice slides for 100 hours, but even then it's unnecessary. You can just be careful of static images and watch TV with reduced contrast, also be aware you may get IR with excessive use of the menu. However, as I said in point #3, you're welcome to age the set further when it's not in use. I found that I stopped having IR issues around the 500 hour mark.


Best of luck!


----------



## MemX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coldengrey15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23047670
> 
> 
> Have a 55" Panasonic ST50. Have ONLY run the D-Nice phosphor aging precalibration slides
> 
> Quick Question about Image Retention "proofing/Run-in"...
> 
> 
> 1a)Read elsewhere, can't find again, that you should run full screen video, with no more than 25% black bars or static images, during first 1000 hours.
> 
> 1b)--> Is that correct or sound plausible, ect?
> 
> 
> 2) Can I use the slide show provided by op, D-Nice, that was intended for pre-calibration phosphor aging, to run for the 1000 hours of full screen for retention proofing?
> 
> OR does the aforementioned 1000 hours of viewing need to be of full motion VIDEO? Opposed to static slide show provided for pre calibration?
> 
> 
> 3a) I'm in process of getting living room ready for the new ST50 and it's just been sitting since pre-christmas....
> 
> I DO NOT have any video source components to spare to run burn-in proofing on, while it's just sitting, but HATE to waste opportunity to perform "run-in" image retention proofing now
> 
> as it's pretty unlikely that rest of family will comply with the 1000 hours full screen only requirements once it's THE active tv in living room
> 
> 
> We play A LOT of video games, so I feel image retention run-in is almost a MUST....
> 
> 
> 3b) *Can anyone suggest or share 'IR run-in' material I could use - IF STATIC D-NICE slides won't cut it (must be full motion video?)
> 
> with a little 8 GB USB memory stick?
> 
> 
> Then, how do I get source material to loop/play over and over without user input?*
> 
> 
> 4) What's the longest I should run tv without a break during the 1000 hour IR run-in?
> 
> 
> THANKS a lot. I mean it!!!!


I am complete Noob so please do not take the following as Gospel, but I would respond as follows:


1a) 1b) Full screen will ensure even 'wear' of the pixels. I don't think there is a set point at which they stop wearing more quickly, so the longer you run balanced slides, the more the panel will get to the point that it is less susceptible to burn in or brighter patches where some pixels have been used less, which black bars may result in.


That said, how many Joe Public just open the box and watch whatever they want to watch with no issues? Probably loads.



2) The slides are not for retention proofing, they are for even pixel ageing. Don't forget that forums such as this will naturally get a higher percentage of people with problems as that's where people with problems gravitate too. I don't think IR is too much of an issue, given how many sets must have been sold compared to how many (few) people have problems on the forums.


Doesn't help those with problems, though... lol



3a) 3b) DNice slides on a memory stick or SD memory card seem to be the safest burn in / pixel ageing process - BD Players can get stuck and burn an image into the screen...


You can set the TV to repeat slideshow on the memory card when it is in, so just do that.



4) As long as it's in an area with good air circulation, it should stay cool enough to not be an issue. Just make sure the slides don't get stuck. Dont' forget that some sets get put on a wall and left to run 24/7/365 in a shopping centre, for example.




EDIT: Answers above are better than mine







lol


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coldengrey15*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4050_50#post_23047670
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 3b) *Can anyone suggest or share 'IR run-in' material I could use - IF STATIC D-NICE slides won't cut it (must be full motion video?)
> 
> with a little 8 GB USB memory stick?
> 
> 
> Then, how do I get source material to loop/play over and over without user input?*
> 
> 
> 4) What's the longest I should run tv without a break during the 1000 hour IR run-in?
> 
> 
> THANKS a lot. I mean it!!!!



Hi, as an electronic-engineer, I can recommend you to use Pixel Jogger, put the mp4 video on an usb stick and play it on the TV mediaplayer with repeat on.

Use pixel jogger only, if you have keen accurate eyes, logical thinking and can differentiates actual PQ improvements. Otherwise you are wasting time and should just watch your tv normally.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer 


I have updated Pixel Jogger with 10minutes and 60fps 10min. versions:

See post #4, post #21: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1456693/do-lcd-leds-have-a-break-in-period-do-they-degrade-with-time/0_50 


Suggestion is to run the normal 30fps 10min. mp4 version in repeat loop at least 24+hrs continuous with contrast=max and brightness=min., (use TV usb mediaplayer), intermittent just check/watch tv if you can see improvements changes.

After first 100+hrs intensive properly break in, the picture will be settle down and won't improve much, then use pixel jogger few minutes as warm up/intermitent breaks/cooling down as maintenance/IR prevention.

After 24 hrs 30fps pixel jogger, you can use the 60fps pixel jogger, 60fps will be the full maximum intensive jogging for the tv.


Watch samples with download links on youtube info section also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kxu-chASGg 30fps 10min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhV_kfjEZb0 60fps 10min


Download HD:

Pixel Jogger 30fps 10min.mp4
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nypxl6 

Pixel Jogger 60fps 10min.mp4
http://www.sendspace.com/file/59unmj 


Enjoy!


All plasma's have line bleed and won't go away totally, because of the phosphor traits, it was on the CRT also, as phosphor trailing.

Yes, It will be less noticeable with proper/even aging, there are few reasons:

1) Your contrast is set too high, the higher the contrast is more visible bleeding and blooming. So decrease the contrast.

2) Your eyes learn/adapt/ignore the line bleeds.

3) Phosphor reaching the treshold points: aging/settle down/saturation.

New phosphor has that soft/misty/foggy picture characteristic, this will improved/go away with the proper/even aging.

Pixel Jogger is the best/fastest/evenly method for this , soon you will see that the picture has no more that soft/misty/foggy layer but a clear/sharp/vibrant image and lesser noticeable linebleed.


It's very simple new phosphor can't handle the subtle/nuance gradations/shades/steps of colors properly yet.

Because those subtle steps will translate into course steps and has no subtle definitions yet, close steps of gradation will just be display as the same level of light, so all colors will be washed out= soft/misty/foggy picture.

After proper aging (could be around 1000+hrs of use) the saturated phosphor can now display the subtle/nuance gradations properly as picture will be sharp/defined etc.


Enjoy!


----------



## ser_renely

My 'fox soccer' logo has faded a bit more, so pretty happy with that, although I want it gone - even though it is not viewable without obsession on normal viewing.










Question: Since the logo is still there(on a red and yellow slide), if I were to watch 'fox soccer' again, does it have a better chance of IR because that logo will be faintly there? Should I wait for it to completely evaporate before I watch that channel again?


----------



## SkyNet14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ser_renely*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23056060
> 
> 
> My 'fox soccer' logo has faded a bit more, so pretty happy with that, although I want it gone - even though it is not viewable without obsession on normal viewing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question: Since the logo is still there(on a red and yellow slide), if I were to watch 'fox soccer' again, does it have a better chance of IR because that logo will be faintly there? Should I wait for it to completely evaporate before I watch that channel again?



Your question is valid and one that I was curious about also. I had some I/R from gaming from an earlier post. I was able to completely eliminate it by running slides and watching varied content (took about 3 days). I was very happy to know it was not 'burn in'. I recently bought a pair of 3D glasses to test my UT50 and the only 3D source I had was the PS3 call of duty game (the original source of the I/R). Curiosity got the best of me and I hooked it up to test the 3D. The I/R was back after one 10 minute game!!!!!!! I even lowered my contrast and brightness settings before playing 65/50. The I/R went away within just a few minutes of changing the source to TV which is great, but this unit seems to be highly suceptible to I/R. YMMV on your set. I am continuing to run the full screen break in slides and hoping that this panel settles down with more hours. If not, I will be forced to return it.


----------



## 77Rivers

Well I going to be buying my first Plasma in a few months with all this freaking out about iR on this thread scared me off. But to see its just a handful of people! I could be wrong but BB they cover there tvs if you buy there warranty plan and even Ir so if you are buy a tv for 1000 bucks too 4000 whats a could hundred more for that peace of mind of not worrying if i going to get IR and yes not everyone has a BB card or one near then. I know some people like to save buy buying online which i get i know. If it was not for BB warranty i still be on the fence for a plasma because PQ is number one too me!


----------



## fatbottom

My feeling is screen burn is not covered by warranty (nor are a couple of dead pixels)


----------



## 77Rivers

Yes spell check lol my bad!


----------



## fatbottom

What does it say in the small print? What they say is covered and what is actually covered, and if they will except what you think is classed as "faulty" but to them "user negligence" or "within normal tolerances" is another thing. Personally screen burn is user negligence. Even if it's only after 10 minutes, they don't know that. Could have been playing games for 10 hours straight.


----------



## 77Rivers

well i believe what you are saying. They did tell me around christmas they changed the warranty more for people. I was told they do cover it !


----------



## ser_renely




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkyNet14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23057392
> 
> 
> Your question is valid and one that I was curious about also. I had some I/R from gaming from an earlier post. I was able to completely eliminate it by running slides and watching varied content (took about 3 days). I was very happy to know it was not 'burn in'. I recently bought a pair of 3D glasses to test my UT50 and the only 3D source I had was the PS3 call of duty game (the original source of the I/R). Curiosity got the best of me and I hooked it up to test the 3D. The I/R was back after one 10 minute game!!!!!!! I even lowered my contrast and brightness settings before playing 65/50. The I/R went away within just a few minutes of changing the source to TV which is great, but this unit seems to be highly suceptible to I/R. YMMV on your set. I am continuing to run the full screen break in slides and hoping that this panel settles down with more hours. If not, I will be forced to return it.



I have not watched that channel for over a week, unless zoomed, so the logo is not on the screen. I assume it will "aggravate" it...who knows.


I still have my IR/burn-in after a week. Pretty sure its only visible on colour slides - red and yellow), although sometimes I wonder if I see discoloration/darkness in that area. It has seemed to no longer be fading at a rate I can see. Hopefully after another week or so it will fade a bit more. I assume I will take a month or so.


My contrast it 30-40. Pretty low.


I rarely see any other IR, the one that most people talk about, which fades away shortly after . Just that one logo and the Panny 'Menu'.


Ser


----------



## Leon!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *77Rivers*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23063371
> 
> 
> I asked them that and they said yes they are covered! Weather there lying is a different story?



I doubt they'd lie about the weather there. Just be advised that csr's don't know everything, & anything they say ON THE PHONE is meaningless. Tell him to send you an email with that same info, and you _might_ have a chance at an exemption, but as said it's ultimately what's in the fine print of the warranty that counts.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leon!*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064142
> 
> *I doubt they'd lie about the weather there.* Just be advised that csr's don't know everything, & anything they say ON THE PHONE is meaningless. Tell him to send you an email with that same info, and you _might_ have a chance at an exemption, but as said it's ultimately what's in the fine print of the warranty that counts.


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leon!*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080_40#post_23064142
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *77Rivers*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23063371
> 
> 
> I asked them that and they said yes they are covered! Weather there lying is a different story?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt they'd lie about the weather there. Just be advised that csr's don't know everything, & anything they say ON THE PHONE is meaningless. Tell him to send you an email with that same info, and you _might_ have a chance at an exemption, but as said it's ultimately what's in the fine print of the warranty that counts.
Click to expand...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080_40#post_23064223
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leon!*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064142
> 
> *I doubt they'd lie about the weather there.* Just be advised that csr's don't know everything, & anything they say ON THE PHONE is meaningless. Tell him to send you an email with that same info, and you _might_ have a chance at an exemption, but as said it's ultimately what's in the fine print of the warranty that counts.
Click to expand...

People who watch too much TV (especially Plasma







) tend to rely on the spell checker too much and not enough on proper grammar...


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064352
> 
> 
> 
> People who watch too much TV (especially Plasma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) tend to rely on the spell checker too much and not enough on proper grammar...



Well, I don't think it's only because they watch too much TV. Some people just feel that because they are on the internet they have no reason to use proper grammar or write in a way that is coherent or easily understandable. It's easier to forgive in a text message, but I don't see what excuse you have when there's a fully functioning keyboard in front of you.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Leon!*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064142
> 
> 
> I doubt they'd lie about the weather there. Just be advised that csr's don't know everything, & anything they say ON THE PHONE is meaningless. Tell him to send you an email with that same info, and you _might_ have a chance at an exemption, but as said it's ultimately what's in the fine print of the warranty that counts.



And because "user negligence" is pretty vague that can include screen burn, even if the rest of the T&C's don't exclude screenburn from warranty.


----------



## 77Rivers

Well sorry for my bad spell type lol.. I will be buying a plasma St60 from best buy all i want to know is if there warranty cover IR or bad pixels?


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *77Rivers*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064691
> 
> 
> Well sorry for my bad spell type lol.. I will be buying a plasma St60 from best buy all i want to know is if there warranty cover IR or bad pixels?



From what I have read BB covers IR or burn-in if you purchase their additional coverage.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064705
> 
> 
> From what I have read BB covers IR or burn-in if you purchase their additional coverage.



But is there "user negligence" in the T&C's? Which an engineer may class IR/SB as that.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23064714
> 
> 
> But is there "user negligence" in the T&C's? Which an engineer may class IR/SB as that.



I wouldn't know the specifics, but it does state they cover burn-in. It actually doesn't say if they cover IR or not.


----------



## kasshern

Hello, I would like to share some of my experience with my 60ST50 ever since I purchased it 3 months ago.


I bought my TV in December 2012 with a build date in August. For the first 200 hours, I used the D-Nice's slides before using his custom settings. At the around the 250 hours mark I started to watch some full screen Blu-rays movies and mostly shows/movies on XBMC. If you are familiar with XMBC on the Apple TV, there's a small green X logo on the top left hand corner. Little that I know that the green X logo was there, I did not pay attention to it at all. So with D-Nice's settings I browsed through the XMBC and watch shows/movies for about two weeks. I then put up the colour slides and to surprise, there was a dark grey outline of the X from the XMBC logo. I tried everything from running the pixel flipper to running the WOW retail loop and watching normal TV and nothing would get the dark grey outline of the X to go away. Not right away at least.


For about 2 months, I only used the XMBC menu in zoom mode to avoid that bright green X logo and then switching to full-screen every time a movie/show starts. It was a pain, but it was the only way to lessen the IR. After about 3 months, I can barely see the green X, but it's still very faintly there.


In my observation, I believe that the IR was caused by repetitiveness(obviously) and high contrast settings. I was using D-Nice's settings with contrast at 76. With that said, I tried to see if I can get any IR with regular TV from those dreaded bright, coloured, and transparent logos using a lower contrast settings (standard mode).


Instead of using D-Nice's custom settings, I switched to standard picture mode (contrast 50) and watched cable TV with my HDPVR digital box for two weeks. At this point, I have probably close to 1000 hours(rough guess) on the TV since I purchased it. So after two weeks of watching regular TV with logos under standard mode, I put up the colour slides and to my surprise, I couldn't find one logo on my TV! I also wanted to add that I have pixel orbital on (if that really does anything). I do watch a lot of sports with static scoreboards.


So what I do to avoid any IR is to watch regular TV with standard mode and Blu-Ray movies using D-Nice's custom settings. Maybe I'm use to my TV by now, but I find that Standard mode looks really good when watching regular TV with my HDPVR (SA8300HD). As of now, I stop looking for IR and just enjoy my TV as much as possible.


Cheers,


----------



## ser_renely




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kasshern*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4080#post_23069253
> 
> 
> Hello, I would like to share some of my experience with my 60ST50 ever since I purchased it 3 months ago.
> 
> 
> I bought my TV in December 2012 with a build date in August. For the first 200 hours, I used the D-Nice's slides before using his custom settings. At the around the 250 hours mark I started to watch some full screen Blu-rays movies and mostly shows/movies on XBMC. If you are familiar with XMBC on the Apple TV, there's a small green X logo on the top left hand corner. Little that I know that the green X logo was there, I did not pay attention to it at all. So with D-Nice's settings I browsed through the XMBC and watch shows/movies for about two weeks. I then put up the colour slides and to surprise, there was a dark grey outline of the X from the XMBC logo. I tried everything from running the pixel flipper to running the WOW retail loop and watching normal TV and nothing would get the dark grey outline of the X to go away. Not right away at least.
> 
> 
> For about 2 months, I only used the XMBC menu in zoom mode to avoid that bright green X logo and then switching to full-screen every time a movie/show starts. It was a pain, but it was the only way to lessen the IR. After about 3 months, I can barely see the green X, but it's still very faintly there.
> 
> 
> In my observation, I believe that the IR was caused by repetitiveness(obviously) and high contrast settings. I was using D-Nice's settings with contrast at 76. With that said, I tried to see if I can get any IR with regular TV from those dreaded bright, coloured, and transparent logos using a lower contrast settings (standard mode).
> 
> 
> Instead of using D-Nice's custom settings, I switched to standard picture mode (contrast 50) and watched cable TV with my HDPVR digital box for two weeks. At this point, I have probably close to 1000 hours(rough guess) on the TV since I purchased it. So after two weeks of watching regular TV with logos under standard mode, I put up the colour slides and to my surprise, I couldn't find one logo on my TV! I also wanted to add that I have pixel orbital on (if that really does anything). I do watch a lot of sports with static scoreboards.
> 
> 
> So what I do to avoid any IR is to watch regular TV with standard mode and Blu-Ray movies using D-Nice's custom settings. Maybe I'm use to my TV by now, but I find that Standard mode looks really good when watching regular TV with my HDPVR (SA8300HD). As of now, I stop looking for IR and just enjoy my TV as much as possible.
> 
> 
> Cheers,



Thanks for the input.


3 months is a long time for IR. Do you think it is still fading?


Can you change the xbmc skin?


----------



## kasshern

I do believe it's still fading and possibly gone by now. But it took a very long time to get rid the IR. After this experience, I would not dare to put that XMBC green X logo in the corner again with high contrast. I still have the XMBC menu zoomed in whenever I use it. It's my first plasma TV and I love the PQ and would not trade it for an LED even if I have to baby it a bit. It's worth the trade off to me.


----------



## ser_renely

Good to see its still fading. I think mine is still fading, but ever so slowly on slides.


I use xbmc on my HTPC, and have a relatively dark skin on it.


Yep, lots of babying, just a way of life for it I guess.


----------



## kasshern

I forgot to mention that the IR from XBMC was in the Navi-X add-on. If you have that add-on, there's a bright green X in the top left corner. Just watch out for that static X.


----------



## JSpectre88

I really wonder why it takes some people so long to get rid of IR. I suppose some while some TV's are more susceptible to getting IR, other TV's can be more susceptible to having IR that is difficult to remove. I completely screwed up two days ago, I forgot for a second that I have a plasma and can't actually just play and enjoy any game I like.







By a second, I mean about 2-3 hours on a ridiculously bad image for the TV. I'm talking about a full screen of bright white lines practically, that never move(at high contrast to boot!). Needless to say, when I snapped out of it I immediately started panicking, I prepped a red slide and prepared to survey the damage. Now when I say I had IR, that's an understatement, I had a literal stamp of the entire game on the screen that was as clear as day. I switched to a TV station and sure enough I could see the entire thing very clearly. After cursing out the TV and myself for several minutes, I started my "IR treatment", which consists of blasting the screen with a music visualizer, on the Vivid setting, with color and contrast at max. After about 10-15 hours I couldn't recognize the full image anymore and almost all traces of IR had faded completely, a massive and somewhat shocking improvement.


----------



## kasshern

The reason is simple, the stubborn IR that a lot of people are experiencing was from over time use. I am talking about days and weeks and not hours like what you experienced. You are lucky that you realized it in two hours. Some of us noticed it way too late. I found out about my IR after two weeks of everyday use.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kasshern*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23076200
> 
> 
> The reason is simple, the stubborn IR that a lot of people are experiencing was from over time use. I am talking about days and weeks and not hours like what you experienced. You are lucky that you realized it in two hours. Some of us noticed it way too late. I found out about my IR after two weeks of everyday use.



I suppose that's true enough, but I literally had a full screen of dark lines and images. It looked really bad, I would be surprised if you had IR that looked worse, even after prolonged use. I guess it's possible it only "looked" bad though, but I'm not sure if that makes sense. I mean, it wasn't the faint IR that I would get from 2-3 hours of watching a show with a logo, it was 10x worse than that.


----------



## kasshern

I wished I had taken a before and after picture of my IR. It was really a dark grey IR and it was there for 2 months. Anyways, it's not visible to me any more if I put up the color slides. But I have a feeling it will come back if I start Navi-X in XBMC in fullscreen again.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kasshern*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23076283
> 
> 
> I wished I took a before and after picture of my IR. It was really a dark grey IR and it was there for 2 months. Anyways, it's not visible to me any more if I put up the color slides. But I have a feeling it will come back if I start Navi-X in XBMC in fullscreen again.



I see, if it looked like that it was probably pretty serious. Mine was also dark gray.


----------



## Ilovetightbass

This stuff is starting to scare me off from my purchase. I have a small window under the return policy and really confused. So what I am reading. If I keep this beauty. And I want to watch 80% faux news. The other 20% of the time I have to run a hbo movie just to get rid of the burn in marks. And probably a movie I could care less about. If this is so. I will just return it. Please help. The more I read. The worse it gets


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ilovetightbass*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23081047
> 
> 
> This stuff is starting to scare me off from my purchase. I have a small window under the return policy and really confused. So what I am reading. If I keep this beauty. And I want to watch 80% faux news. The other 20% of the time I have to run a hbo movie just to get rid of the burn in marks. And probably a movie I could care less about. If this is so. I will just return it. Please help. The more I read. The worse it gets



I agree that reading the IR posts on this site can definitely make you nervous with plasma panels. However, considering what JSpectre88 went through, I think you are probably fine. Just use your TV as a you would any other TV. I am really just trying to enjoy my set without the IR worry. Thanks to JSpectre88 recent posts, I feel more confident about my ST50. Getting my panel ISF calibrated on Saturday and can’t wait to see the pq improvements.


----------



## ser_renely

I think its a learning process.



Now that I know what gives me IR I can take precautions against it relatively easily. Although it is a bit annoying. My tv is till new, so we will see how it goes in future.


I don't game though.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ilovetightbass*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23081047
> 
> 
> This stuff is starting to scare me off from my purchase. I have a small window under the return policy and really confused. So what I am reading. If I keep this beauty. And I want to watch 80% faux news. The other 20% of the time I have to run a hbo movie just to get rid of the burn in marks. And probably a movie I could care less about. If this is so. I will just return it. Please help. The more I read. The worse it gets



What does watching 80% news mean, specifically?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23081565
> 
> 
> What does watching 80% news mean, specifically?



And someone actually watched Fox "News?"


----------



## deeann

This post isn't addressed to anyone in particular and I haven't generally looked in this forum for a while, but I have an 11 year old plasma display that I purchased new at the time (Panasonic TH-42PWD4UY, manufacture date February 2002). This is my own experience. With regards to care and feeding I have both:


1) Beyond the first couple of hundred hours of running it a bit dimmer than I normally would, continued to consciously take care of it by not running it in torch mode, periodically touched it up with a calibration disc and generally mixed up my viewing content.


and


2) Not taken care of it by falling asleep to dvd menus, accidentally leaving it paused on a still movie frame for a couple of hours or more (less of a problem now that I've switched to xbmc, it has good screensaver options) and had marathon cable news viewings when something big was going on (like hurricanes), left screen guides and OSDs up by doing things like answering the phone and forgetting about it.


After something like (2) would happen- I didn't go inspecting for specific IR, but I would run varied content or plain static for a while, then just not stress over it.


But since it was overdue for a screen cleaning and video touch-up anyway, for my own curiosity I got and loaded up the D-Nice solid gray and color slides just to look.


What I found was that it looks fine. Of course it doesn't look exactly the same as it would out of the box, but it still looks really good.


Now if back in 2002 I'd worried so much about IR or burn-in that I hadn't saved up and purchased this very nice display device, I would have missed out on about 11 years and 10,583 hours (at my last check) of enjoying it. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Ilovetightbass

I will answer this question only if u r being serious. I want to watch 80% news channel. I am of loss for words. All news channels have nasty logo and tickers. Espn is pretty bad also.


----------



## bucknuts07




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23081735
> 
> 
> And someone actually watched Fox "News?"


You must not pay attention to ratings .


----------



## amrod

Can I use winamp's Milkdrop Plugin to burn in my new GT50? what brightness settings should I use?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J4OXiZkm3Y is a basic idea of milkdrop is like


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amrod*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4120_40#post_23092457
> 
> 
> Can I use winamp's Milkdrop Plugin to burn in my new GT50? what brightness settings should I use?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J4OXiZkm3Y is a basic idea of milkdrop is like


Just don't run out of music. MilkDrop becomes a static image if that happens.


----------



## ispeck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ispeck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3930#post_22802429
> 
> 
> eff it
> 
> 
> I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
> 
> if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back
> 
> 
> like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that
> 
> 
> I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend
> 
> 
> I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity




Well as promised I'm checking in with my 55GT50 that I've had since early January, it now has near 600 hours of use on it.


Here are some details for the record:


- TV manufacture date is December 2012


- I have it hooked up to an HTPC through which I watch TV and movies with Windows Media Center and Blu-rays (both discs and downloaded rips using Plex)


- I also play PC games through Steam and have an Xbox 360 that I play FPS games on like Halo and BF3 so there are static HUDs


- I ran NO break-in slides whatsoever nor did I zoom the picture on channels with logos or vertical bars for any period


- Contrast has never been above 80 and brightness has never been above 50


- I have wavered a few times between HD Master's and D-Nice's settings




Channels/shows that I usually watch a lot of:

- Comedy Central

- TBS

- Pac 12 Network

- AMC

- ESPN

- Fox Soccer

- CNN


All of these channels have logos


These are my highly unscientific findings should anyone care.


For the first 2 months, IR with certain logos was flat out NASTY.


I would watch one basketball game on ESPN or one soccer game on Fox Soccer and those respective logos were sticking in the corner of the screen for OVER A WEEK without me going back to that channel. Granted, with moving images on the screen you couldn't really see them but anytime there was a scene with a solid color background (a lot of commercials have these), those logos were plain as day and my eyes were drawn right to them.


They were also easy to see if I was navigating around in XBOX menus since there are a lot of white or light green solid backgrounds.


Those two channels have been the worst offenders BY FAR. I don't what it is about them but nothing else sticks as bad.


I didn't bother running the screen-wipe or any other utilities because I wanted to see how quickly just normal use on other channels/games would clear it up.


I would periodically fire up D-nice's panel prep slides just to get a solid background to examine and saw almost no sign of IR from those two logos fading for nearly 2 weeks after only a couple of hours viewing. Needless to say I was fairly pissed and scared that Panasonic had royally screwed up this generation of plasmas since this was a similar experience to many people who have complained on these forums.


At this point, however, I was already outside of amazon's return window and figured we might as well see how long this set takes to REALLY settle down.


I continued normal viewing habits with the exception of very limited ESPN or Fox Soccer viewing for the sake of my own experimentation.


It took nearly a full month for those logos to be almost invisible on certain colored slides (again, this is with no screen-wipe tool or pixel flipper or any kind of utility).

If I look at the screen from certain angles and really strain I can see hints of those logos still but certainly not enough to bother me.


At this point, I still notice significant IR with channel logos or items from my computer desktop on very light backgrounds shortly after having them on screen for at least 20 minutes but they fade away just as quickly through normal viewing. I will only notice logos on solid backgrounds in commercials or slides (which I hardly bother with anymore)


To date I have notice virtually ZERO IR as a result of gaming or web browsing with this TV which is simply baffling given how bad the logos have stuck at times. It makes me wonder if certain areas of the screen are more susceptible to it although that would be very strange.


That all being said, I would have to agree with people who say that IR is most likely a worse problem with these model TV's over slightly older models in the sense that they appear to be more sensitive to it early in their lives. It definitely appears to be getting better (read, less sensitive) as it racks up more hours but the general "first 100 hours" rule quoted by a lot around here certainly turned out to be closer to 500 hours for me....and still counting.



There have definitely been times where I wondered if I should have just gone LCD for this round. Maybe I was spoiled by a previously perfect TV but the picture quality on this GT50 doesn't look leaps and bounds better than my 7 year old PX900U plasma. It's pretty and all but I'd be lying if I said the IR doesn't bug me even if it is only in the corners and only over solid backgrounds. I feel like in 2013 it's something that we shouldn't have to deal with and Panasonic certainly seemed to be less than genuine in their responses to those people who have dealt with it over the past year.


Overall I enjoy the TV and nobody else but me seems to have noticed the IR issues, I am hopeful that over the next month the issue will continue be less and less of an issue.


It will most likely be my last plasma TV judging from the news recently so this is all likely moot anyway but I figured I should share my experience.


----------



## ser_renely

The Fox Soccer logo is crazy....they should be shot for that piece of engineering.


I use the different zooms after 10 minutes or so on a channel a lot at the moment. Its retarded I have to resort to that, but I have not had any serious IR since I have taken up that method.....stupid.


I run my contrast and brightness in the 20-30's...


----------



## Heywould

EDIT: never mind, after more reading Ive decided its just a toss up and best to be smart with the TV. no right answer.


----------



## AUnusedUsername

I'm considering buying a plasma screen, but my "normal usage" is apparently pretty far from the norm, so I'm honestly unsure if plasma is a good idea due to potential IR. I'll be using the TV nearly 100% for gaming. However, it's unlikely to ever be on for more than 1-2 hours a day. How does power-on time affect IR and burn-in? Obviously gaming isn't ideal use, but I won't have it on at all all that often.


The reason I'm considering plasma in the first place is that they have low input lag and slightly better (effective) refresh rates, which is important for gaming, and they obviously have a better picture quality. So basically as far as the actual display type goes, they're ideal for gaming, but they have the issue of IR that makes them horrible for gaming, so it's hard to tell which side I should base my choice on.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AUnusedUsername*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23120677
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying a plasma screen, but my "normal usage" is apparently pretty far from the norm, so I'm honestly unsure if plasma is a good idea due to potential IR. I'll be using the TV nearly 100% for gaming. However, it's unlikely to ever be on for more than 1-2 hours a day. How does power-on time affect IR and burn-in? Obviously gaming isn't ideal use, but I won't have it on at all all that often.
> 
> 
> The reason I'm considering plasma in the first place is that they have low input lag and slightly better (effective) refresh rates, which is important for gaming, and they obviously have a better picture quality. So basically as far as the actual display type goes, they're ideal for gaming, but they have the issue of IR that makes them horrible for gaming, so it's hard to tell which side I should base my choice on.


I wouldn't recommend plasma as a full time gaming set


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AUnusedUsername*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23120677
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying a plasma screen, but my "normal usage" is apparently pretty far from the norm, so I'm honestly unsure if plasma is a good idea due to potential IR. I'll be using the TV nearly 100% for gaming. However, it's unlikely to ever be on for more than 1-2 hours a day. How does power-on time affect IR and burn-in? Obviously gaming isn't ideal use, but I won't have it on at all all that often.
> 
> 
> The reason I'm considering plasma in the first place is that they have low input lag and slightly better (effective) refresh rates, which is important for gaming, and they obviously have a better picture quality. So basically as far as the actual display type goes, they're ideal for gaming, but they have the issue of IR that makes them horrible for gaming, so it's hard to tell which side I should base my choice on.



Is it always going to be the same game? That could be a slight problem, but only if the game has really bright HUD elements. As far as anti-gaming goes in terms of IR, it's not any different than if you watched bright logos on a TV show. Some sets are more susceptible to IR than others, but the general consensus is that IR shouldn't be all that problematic unless you have a defective set. Considering your usage I would give one of the new 60 models a shot, but buy it somewhere with a solid return policy just in case. I would consider my set (GT50) to be border line defective in terms of IR, but there was never anything I could do about it.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23121832
> 
> 
> I would consider my set (GT50) to be border line defective in terms of IR, but there was never anything I could do about it.



Why would you consider your set to be border line IR defective? I've read through some of your post and your panel seems to be doing better against IR as it ages. Is this not correct?


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23123778
> 
> 
> Why would you consider your set to be border line IR defective? I've read through some of your post and your panel seems to be doing better against IR as it ages. Is this not correct?



A valid question. I say borderline because I still get pretty bad IR from minimal/moderate usage, but it always goes away. Of course it's not exactly instant, it can take several hours up until a day or so, but it doesn't take weeks. The only case of IR that hasn't gone away is the "M" in "Menu", which I have had since I purchased the set about a month or so ago. It's extremely faint and doesn't bother me, but I'm just confused why it won't go away when more serious cases of IR have resolved themselves. It might be getting slightly more resistant or I might just be getting used to it, I'm not really sure. I probably have around 1000 hours on the set by this point.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23123816
> 
> 
> A valid question. I say borderline because I still get pretty bad IR from minimal/moderate usage, but it always goes away. Of course it's not exactly instant, it can take several hours up until a day or so, but it doesn't take weeks. The only case of IR that hasn't gone away is the "M" in "Menu", which I have had since I purchased the set about a month or so ago. It's extremely faint and doesn't bother me, but I'm just confused why it won't go away when more serious cases of IR have resolved themselves. It might be getting slightly more resistant or I might just be getting used to it, I'm not really sure. I probably have around 1000 hours on the set by this point.



Thanks for your post. My ST50 has around 500 hours and I've only noticed IR when checking via slides. During calibration, the calibrator had the "Menu" off and on for nearly 3 hours. After calibration the word "Menu" was clearly visible on a couple slides but not during normal TV viewing. Since it wasn’t visible during my normal TV usage it didn’t bother me. I checked via slides a few days later and it was gone. Most of my heavy TV usage comes during football season and this fall will be my true long-term test. So far, for me, the ST50 has been fairly IR resistant. That said, I do use the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper every once in a while as a precaution.


----------



## AUnusedUsername




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23121832
> 
> 
> Is it always going to be the same game? That could be a slight problem, but only if the game has really bright HUD elements. As far as anti-gaming goes in terms of IR, it's not any different than if you watched bright logos on a TV show. Some sets are more susceptible to IR than others, but the general consensus is that IR shouldn't be all that problematic unless you have a defective set. Considering your usage I would give one of the new 60 models a shot, but buy it somewhere with a solid return policy just in case. I would consider my set (GT50) to be border line defective in terms of IR, but there was never anything I could do about it.



No, it's not always going to be the same game. I play pretty much everything, and not all of it even has a HUD. I'm basically concerned if even just a few hours of something with a HUD is going to leave me with a weeks worth of IR. If that's the norm, then plasma is obviously not the way to go for me. From what I've heard it's generally only an issue over extended continuous periods of time, and not so much if the TV isn't ever on for long periods at a time, but I don't know that for a fact, which is why I'm asking.


I'd honestly prefer the 42'' s60, but right now you can't buy that retail, and the 50'' costs a measly $40 more and is sold retail, so if I go for plasma I'd probably be buying locally so returns wouldn't be that difficult, minus fitting a 50'' TV into a 2 door hatchback.


----------



## JSpectre88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AUnusedUsername*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23124437
> 
> 
> No, it's not always going to be the same game. I play pretty much everything, and not all of it even has a HUD. I'm basically concerned if even just a few hours of something with a HUD is going to leave me with a weeks worth of IR. If that's the norm, then plasma is obviously not the way to go for me. From what I've heard it's generally only an issue over extended continuous periods of time, and not so much if the TV isn't ever on for long periods at a time, but I don't know that for a fact, which is why I'm asking.
> 
> 
> I'd honestly prefer the 42'' s60, but right now you can't buy that retail, and the 50'' costs a measly $40 more and is sold retail, so if I go for plasma I'd probably be buying locally so returns wouldn't be that difficult, minus fitting a 50'' TV into a 2 door hatchback.



IR that lasts for weeks is definitely not the norm. I would say go for it.


With any plasma though I still think you need to be cautious within the first 100 hours.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSpectre88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23124493
> 
> 
> IR that lasts for weeks is definitely not the norm. I would say go for it.
> 
> 
> With any plasma though I still think you need to be cautious within the first 100 hours.



I agree and would even run slides anytime you are not using the set to expedite the aging process during the first couple hundred hours. Especially so if this is going to be your main gaming TV.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23081735
> 
> 
> And someone actually watched Fox "News?"



Lots of people actually watch Fox NEWS, yes. I believe they have the largest audience of cable news viewers. Twice the size of their nearest competitor (CNN) according to Nelson.


And yes, the only reason I'm avoiding watching them is my GT50 still has less then 400 hours on it and their logo is brutal.


----------



## kasshern

Has anyone who watches Fox news on their plasma actually e-mail Fox about their logo? I know that the T+E channel recently changed their logo from bright red to transparent. I actually emailed them about it and they were happy for the feedback they got.


----------



## SFabozzi

But they haven't done anything about it...


----------



## petemc1

Fox News is the most watched news channel in America.So yes ,my liberal friend,many people watch Fox News.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petemc1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4110#post_23201849
> 
> 
> Fox News is the most watched news channel in America.So yes ,my liberal friend,many people watch Fox News.



Perhaps our liberal colleague is one of the four people who watch MSLSD.











Back to the thread, Whoa I love this TV! It seems to get better with age. Geez I wish us humans were like that!


----------



## eric3316

What is the recommended level of brightness and contrast during the break-in period or what is the max you should be running these at? Then once broken-in is it okay to keep the contrast level in the 90's?


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23204839
> 
> 
> What is the recommended level of brightness and contrast during the break-in period or what is the max you should be running these at? Then once broken-in is it okay to keep the contrast level in the 90's?



I'd say not. If you need those sorts of levels of contrast, perhaps because the room is well lit, you should have bought a LCD.


I have my Pioneer set to 20 (out of 60) but then I watch in a unlit room.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23204901
> 
> 
> I'd say not. If you need those sorts of levels of contrast, perhaps because the room is well lit, you should have bought a LCD.
> 
> 
> I have my Pioneer set to 20 (out of 60) but then I watch in a unlit room.



I have a Samsung e7000 and cnet's setting is 95 for contrast. I figured that is a professional setting they do in an optimal viewing experience. Another site actually has the contrast at 100. So these levels should be much less?


----------



## fatbottom

I can't believe calibrated level for a plasma is 100% nor is it safe for screenburn. You wouldn't set a CRT to 95-100% contrast, either.


Perhaps if take into account light of the room, to product sufficient contrast levels? Sure not getting LCD calibration mixed up? They look best with contrast near the top end of the scale (note backlight setting is seperate from that, and in a home setting backlight at lower levels is better, plus it results in better black levels) as you do not need the massive amounts of light produced.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23205206
> 
> 
> I can't believe calibrated level for a plasma is 100% nor is it safe for screenburn. You wouldn't set a CRT to 95-100% contrast, either.
> 
> 
> Perhaps if take into account light of the room, to product sufficient contrast levels? Sure not getting LCD calibration mixed up? They look best with contrast near the top end of the scale (note backlight setting is seperate from that, and in a home setting backlight at lower levels is better, plus it results in better black levels) as you do not need the massive amounts of light produced.


 http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-561058/samsung-pn60e8000-picture-settings/?tag=posts;msg5316691 

http://reviews.*******************.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn51e7000-picturesettings.html


----------



## IDRick

Is there a sticky within the sticky? I'm trying to find the recommended procedure for breaking in a plasma but can't find it.... Yes, indeed google is my friend and is normally used to find things but it does not resolve the issue in this case...


----------



## Dabearfan101

I don't watch much tv programs/shows. I mainly use my tv for gaming and movies.However I have a question. Since obviously movies I watch will have black bars and games will tend to have different static hubs, will I run into a problem with burn in? Since I don't watch much regular tv it will be harder for me to switch the content up. Would it be a good idea if I just ran colored slides every now and then for a few hours or after a heavy gaming session?


----------



## Watcher12

I've got either IR or burn-in on my 4+ year old set. How can I tell which it is? Does one look distinctly different than the other in any way?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dabearfan101*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23239157
> 
> 
> I don't watch much tv programs/shows. I mainly use my tv for gaming and movies.However I have a question. Since obviously movies I watch will have black bars and games will tend to have different static hubs, will I run into a problem with burn in? Since I don't watch much regular tv it will be harder for me to switch the content up. Would it be a good idea if I just ran colored slides every now and then for a few hours or after a heavy gaming session?



If you take it easy during the first 150 hours or so by running largely full screen content you should be ok. My ST50 probably has over 500 hours now and is much better with IR. I do run the Disney WOW pixel flipper, overnight, twice a month as a precaution. The pixel flipper or just plain TV static seems to work best with IR on my panel. I recommend either of those over just running slides after a heavy gaming session.


----------



## MonicaJae

I am also an avid gamer. That being said, I just needed to empty some thoughts i had regarding the ST60 I have and about current model plasmas in general:


I'm a plasma noob, so no hatin':


Considering plasma is NOT by all means a new technology, i would think that if it were that much an issue, for all the millions of people who have bought a plasma tv over those manufacturing years, that there would be some material from the manufacturers that would be an essential "need to read" factor? I mean, I would think that there would be more emphasis about it if I/R and/or burn-in is that much of a concern and that people would be complaining left and right about it and from day one there would be class action law suits galore. That would seem to be a defect in engineering, imo, and the technology would have become obsolete. But it's been around for decades...It seems it is only through these forums that I have even heard about these issues and I have to say that they almost scared me out of buying my plasma. Now i'm almost at the point of paranoia! I'm not saying that Burn in and I/R are not a reality. Obviously they are. That being said, when I heard people say that you shouldn't leave static images or not have a screen saver on with the old-school crt's, i p'shawd it and left my computer on for days, no screen saver no use, nothing and my screen was just as good as when i first got it. i will never go back to crt if you paid me...well, if you paid me maybe--but it would have to be a lot. #1 because the picture sucks ass, is blurry as hell and video games were almost unplayable at all on them. At least the JVC and SONY crt tvs that i owned. yuck.

I don't know...just sayin


There is more










I wasn't able to read all the posts in this thread, that would really be a daunting task; plus, i'm watching the Penguins-Islanders game and the Penguins are winning (YAY! and they just scored AGAIN whilst writing this sentence!). Focus, Monica, focus










So, with all this talk about IR and burn-in and blablabla, will there EVER come a time when I will be able to watch a movie with the borders atop and bottom without the judgment of God looming over my head?? How about a 4:3 movie? I wanted to watch "Live Free or Die Harder" on my Sony Blu-Ray player, and there was no way to change the picture output. Maybe I didn't see something in settings or wha?


(Bless me father for I have sinned. It has been forever since my last confession. I watched my new plasma tv within the first 100-200 hour mark on a channel that had a persistent logo at the top of the screen. My defense is that I was watching the Hockey playoffs for the Stanley cup! I'm so SORRY GOD!! FORGIVE ME! BUT IT WAS THE PENGUINS FOR PETES SAKE!







)


Just askin. It just seems like the parameters for viewing a plasma tv are so caustic and/or strict. Like to the point of being almost uber extreme! Ok, so you need to sterilize tools before surgery, wash your hands 78 times in boiling water, wear a face mask, a hair net, gloves, ... Since when did watching TV become so over-****ing-complicated? I'm getting such mixed feedback that i'm literally about to go postal on just anybody now. My TV's "on" hours are maybe, now, at best 30? maybe even less. I'm now watching the Playoffs (obviously) without the zoom feature. Is that bad? The scores/teams logo at top not eternally persistent- there are commercial breaks at least every five minutes give or take a couple. Sometimes i wonder if the old comment "If you look for it you will find it" is at play here. This isn't to minimize the reality of burn-in or IR about which I've heard a lot. Never really experienced it--my first ever plasma. I s'pose most of the crappy content could be the crappy HD cable rendering(?) or compression?


----------



## timofp

I've a PS60E5000 since a few months, around 400 hours on it atm. I never watch regular TV channels on it, so no logo problems and also gaming doesn't happen allot, but that could change with GTA V.


Anyway, I've one very persistent IR (or even Burn-in) Problem. As I'm not native english, and neither is my GF, We have subtitles on 95% of the time. Subtitles are mostly at the same position and bright white. So I now have 2 dark bars over nearly the whole length of the screen at the bottom of the screen.


I didn't expect subtitles to leave IR/burn in because they are not static in the sense of logos and the PS60E6500 should be the master of anti IR according to reviews.


The IR/burn in is not only noticeable during test slides, but also very noticeable during regular watching, any vertical panning of the camera makes it stand out.


I've ran the IR remover (those scrolling bars build in the tv) for over 20 hours now, in the first 4 hours the IR became less, but since then it seems to stay there.


So I've 2 problems, one will I ever get rid of this IR, or is it burned in? Second, well, I can't avoid subtitles like I can with logo's (by zooming or not watching). I could watch some stuff without subtitles, my English is good enough for it, but not something like House for example. But my GF can't, so it's not really a solution.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *timofp*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23268634
> 
> 
> I've a PS60E5000 since a few months, around 400 hours on it atm. I never watch regular TV channels on it, so no logo problems and also gaming doesn't happen allot, but that could change with GTA V.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I've one very persistent IR (or even Burn-in) Problem. As I'm not native english, and neither is my GF, We have subtitles on 95% of the time. Subtitles are mostly at the same position and bright white. So I now have 2 dark bars over nearly the whole length of the screen at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> I didn't expect subtitles to leave IR/burn in because they are not static in the sense of logos and the PS60E6500 should be the master of anti IR according to reviews.
> 
> 
> The IR/burn in is not only noticeable during test slides, but also very noticeable during regular watching, any vertical panning of the camera makes it stand out.
> 
> 
> I've ran the IR remover (those scrolling bars build in the tv) for over 20 hours now, in the first 4 hours the IR became less, but since then it seems to stay there.
> 
> 
> So I've 2 problems, one will I ever get rid of this IR, or is it burned in? Second, well, I can't avoid subtitles like I can with logo's (by zooming or not watching). I could watch some stuff without subtitles, my English is good enough for it, but not something like House for example. But my GF can't, so it's not really a solution.



Hi, Welcome to AVS !


I'm no plasma expert, but what I would do is run a pixel flipper such as the one found on the WOW Disney Blu-ray Disc. I've seen here on AVS some people have had success removing persistent IR with the pixel flipper on the WOW BD. I would let it run for a while, like at least 24hrs and see what it does. The WOW disc can be purchased on Amazon or elsewhere for a decent price. Its a very useful disc that is well made and helps you calibrate your display (and sound as well), there's also other features on the disc, a great buy in my opinion, I own one.


Problem is.. if you're always watching subtitles, I don't see how it's not going to come back.. maybe running the WOW disc on a regular basis might help.


----------



## Jarrycanada

is the pixel flipper thingy on the normal Disney WOW dvd disc? or is it a blu ray thing. I don't have a bluray player as I been using cable box's and streamers for my content. I started noticing ir on my Panasonic ut50 the last month or so. it's mostly the shaw cable logo that is used on the cable box menu screen it's in the same place and I never notice or was thinking it would be a problem tell now. now I have a nice pink outline of a logo on my screen.

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6079/shawlogo.jpg 

before.
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/708/img1479nx.jpg 


I don't know really what i could do, I wish I never got this set. it's at the 500hour mark in the tv's service mode. I've not calibrated it yet. as I can't find any places in Edmonton I trust.


anyone.


my settings are


63 for contrast

75 for brightness

45 for color

0 for tint

45 for sharpness.


----------



## CheYC

Just as I've feared, baseball season is bringing me some nasty IR with the YES scoreboard retaining. on the screen. I've ran the scrolling bars for about an hour and it helped a good amount, but there's definitely still some left.


----------



## Jeremyd5

I've found that the scrolling bar does not do a great job of removing stubborn IR. My experience has been that animation does a better job of clearing IR. What I do when I get IR is I tune to CN/Adult Swim and just zoom it so that the CN logo is removed and then letting it run overnight during Adult Swim until the IR is gone. One thing to mention is that I wouldn't recommend running CN unattended during the day as CN occasionally likes to run annoying banners or counters for new episodes or specials. Adult Swim is fine though.


----------



## Blu_One

Pixel flipper - Disney Wow BD. Run that bad boy straight for 24+ hours, done (hopefully). Repeat on a regular basis based on your viewing pattern


----------



## fatbottom

I'd never leave a disc playing for hours. Device may lock up and go back to main menu!


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23278488
> 
> 
> I'd never leave a disc playing for hours. Device may lock up and go back to main menu!



I've ran slides for days without issues, just keeps going and going til I stop it. I'm confident in my setup, can't speak for others on this


----------



## Jarrycanada




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23278057
> 
> 
> I've found that the scrolling bar does not do a great job of removing stubborn IR. My experience has been that animation does a better job of clearing IR. What I do when I get IR is I tune to CN/Adult Swim and just zoom it so that the CN logo is removed and then letting it run overnight during Adult Swim until the IR is gone. One thing to mention is that I wouldn't recommend running CN unattended during the day as CN occasionally likes to run annoying banners or counters for new episodes or specials. Adult Swim is fine though.



I wish could get adult swim here in Canada. but if we did it wouldn't be the us version, it would be some cheap Canadian copy cat version that has nothing exciting on it. Ohh well. I've heard cartoons are good to whitewash a screen but the problem is the logos.


ON the subject of dvd players most dvd players do have a screen saver so that would be a good idea to turn on. I've yet to ever see a dvd player with out that option on it.


----------



## CheYC

Ran the Disney WoW pixel flipper overnight and the IR is essentially gone now. Given I watch baseball everyday, probably will be a good idea to do this once or twice weekly..


----------



## Jarrycanada

"The light that burns so brightly only burns for so long." BLADE RUNNER


if you do that every day or once a week you'll burn your tv out in no time.


tell me what if you don't want to buy a bluray player/wow disc. as I'll most likely never use it for anything other then sorting out my IR problems. is there not some free solutions, other then leaving the house door unlocked and hoping someone steals it, Kidding.


----------



## Ilovetightbass

4162 quotes in this thread. I wish we could get the manufacturers to take our troubles serious instead of keep making trouble.


----------



## CheYC

I just wish networks would stop with the constant static images on the screen, I know which friggin channel I'm watching when I'm watching it.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CheYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23281246
> 
> 
> Ran the Disney WoW pixel flipper overnight and the IR is essentially gone now. Given I watch baseball everyday, probably will be a good idea to do this once or twice weekly..



That wouldn't be a bad idea at all


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23285278
> 
> 
> "The light that burns so brightly only burns for so long." BLADE RUNNER
> 
> 
> if you do that every day or once a week you'll burn your tv out in no time.
> 
> 
> tell me what if you don't want to buy a bluray player/wow disc. as I'll most likely never use it for anything other then sorting out my IR problems. is there not some free solutions, other then leaving the house door unlocked and hoping someone steals it, Kidding.



I believe one can find other sources, video loops, etc., that can run off a USB stick, better then running ones BR disk player motor as well.


----------



## Jarrycanada




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23286340
> 
> 
> I believe one can find other sources, video loops, etc., that can run off a USB stick, better then running ones BR disk player motor as well.



such as? any clues


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23289063
> 
> 
> such as? any clues



Many simply recommend running various content with of course no letterbox, or TV bugs, break-in slides would be another way, searching might turn up even more options, I have not as of now needed to explore this option, but here is one link I saved as well as the freely offered video files. Good luck!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer


----------



## MonicaJae

So, can someone answer me whether or not there will come a day where i won't have to worry about IR or burn-in? Will i always have IR with persistent logos? or does that go away? Will i ever be able to game for hours on end? there were days where i would have gaming marathons. is that a thing of the past now that i have a plasma?

and what if i do want to watch espn or cnn for a whole day? then what?


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23292800
> 
> 
> So, can someone answer me whether or not there will come a day where i won't have to worry about IR or burn-in? Will i always have IR with persistent logos? or does that go away? Will i ever be able to game for hours on end? there were days where i would have gaming marathons. is that a thing of the past now that i have a plasma?
> 
> and what if i do want to watch espn or cnn for a whole day? then what?



It's not that simple. The problem has been solved, yet high end plasma continue to be released that don't incorporate whatever the solution is. The late-generation Pioneers were IR-proof... you should see how I've treated my 5080HD, and even painstaking obsession with various slides never revealed a trace of long-duration IR. When I originally purchased it I was still in college, so the TV's first few thousand hours consisted of being used in all of the worst ways you can imagine by a house full of college students (ESPN for hours, long video game sessions, movies and TV shows left paused for way too long).


Last year's 60"+ Samsungs (E6500 and higher, can't speak for the low end models) had similar IR performance to my Pioneer. It's unfortunate that they were fairly lacking in other image quality measures (IMO). The F8500 might be a good option if they've managed to preserve that performance (I'm personally not impressed with their 60ms input lag and the brightness pops, but that probably won't concern most).


Basically this is a 2012 Panasonic issue. And maybe 2013; we don't have reports about IR performance on these set yet since most people here won't buy at launch for MSRP. The 2012 Panasonic sets were overall quite excellent, but something they did to reach that level of performance left them prone to long-duration IR.


Edit: I just realized you were talking about your TV you already own. I read your post quickly and thought it was a question about plasma tech in general. I'll still leave the above because this is the IR thread and it's on topic.


I don't know what TV you have, but if it's a 2012 Panasonic the short answer is that you will probably always have the same IR performance as you do today. I've seen posts on here from people with 1 or even 2000 hours on these sets indicating no improvement in IR handling.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23293089
> 
> 
> It's not that simple. The problem has been solved, yet high end plasma continue to be released that don't incorporate whatever the solution is. The late-generation Pioneers were IR-proof... you should see how I've treated my 5080HD, and even painstaking obsession with various slides never revealed a trace of long-duration IR. When I originally purchased it I was still in college, so the TV's first few thousand hours consisted of being used in all of the worst ways you can imagine by a house full of college students (ESPN for hours, long video game sessions, movies and TV shows left paused for way too long).
> 
> 
> Last year's 60"+ Samsungs (E6500 and higher, can't speak for the low end models) had similar IR performance to my Pioneer. It's unfortunate that they were fairly lacking in other image quality measures (IMO). The F8500 might be a good option if they've managed to preserve that performance (I'm personally not impressed with their 60ms input lag and the brightness pops, but that probably won't concern most).
> 
> 
> Basically this is a 2012 Panasonic issue. And maybe 2013; we don't have reports about IR performance on these set yet since most people here won't buy at launch for MSRP. The 2012 Panasonic sets were overall quite excellent, but something they did to reach that level of performance left them prone to long-duration IR.



As long as you change that to "some of the 2012" models it is accurate


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293105
> 
> 
> As long as you change that to "some of the 2012" models it is accurate



I still don't buy that. I've personally tested 4 with identical performance, which seems unlikely for a "rare defect." It could be a statistical anomaly, but at minimum it suggests that a large percentage of the panels show this effect.


I believe that many users just don't want to or can't detect it. And that many people use their TVs in ways that are far less likely to generate IR (ie, don't watch logo channels or play games with bright HUD elements). That said, if you can't see it you don't have a problem. But that doesn't mean it isn't an actual design defect with the panels, which I believe it is.


Panasonic is terrified of this issue. I tried to ask the HDJ insider one question about IR (in relation to the ZT60 not using MgO) and he went full lawyer (basically quoting the line that any instance of IR has nothing to do with them and is always the result of abusing the TV), which I've never seen him do on any other subject.


Edit: I should mention that in my testing the one VT50 I tried *did* do better than the GT and ST. Just not nearly as well as my ancient Pioneer or the otherwise poor quality 60"+ Samsungs. I would consider the VT50's performance to be at the borderline of acceptable, but we've seen that it's possible to do much better.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293137
> 
> 
> I still don't buy that. I've personally tested 4 with identical performance, which seems unlikely for a "rare defect." It could be a statistical anomaly, but at minimum it suggests that a large percentage of the panels show this effect.
> 
> 
> I believe that many users just don't want to or can't detect it. And that many people use their TVs in ways that are far less likely to generate IR (ie, don't watch logo channels or play games with bright HUD elements). That said, if you can't see it you don't have a problem. But that doesn't mean it isn't an actual design defect with the panels, which I believe it is.
> 
> 
> Panasonic is terrified of this issue. I tried to ask the HDJ insider one question about IR (in relation to the ZT60 not using MgO) and he went full lawyer (basically quoting the line that any instance of IR has nothing to do with them and is always the result of abusing the TV), which I've never seen him do on any other subject.



I can only go on my personal experience absolutely no long term IR, I don't game and wouldn't dispute that is a use pattern that could generate IR. But I do watch logo channels on a regular basis. ESPN, sports broadcasts and shows with tickers not one single issue with IR and I have looked including on slides it just isn't there and if you sift thru the threads here I am not the only one. I don't have an explanation for it but it not an issue with all models or even all sets within the same model.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293159
> 
> 
> I can only go on my personal experience absolutely no long term IR, I don't game and wouldn't dispute that is a use pattern that could generate IR. But I do watch logo channels on a regular basis. ESPN, sports broadcasts and shows with tickers not one single issue with IR and I have looked including on slides it just isn't there and if you sift thru the threads here I am not the only one. I don't have an explanation for it but it not an issue with all models or even all sets within the same model.



The problem with your data is that you didn't actually test for it. You just found that it didn't happen in your normal watching pattern. I'm specifically going to TVs and running the same test on them which, so far, has produced the same IR on every one (it did take slightly longer on the VT though). I've done the same test on my 5080 and did it on an E7000 I owned for about 2 weeks (couldn't stand those brightness pops or the general dullness of the display) and couldn't produce any trace of IR. I've done far worse things to my 5080 just in its normal lifespan, including using it as a PC monitor. If this performance is possible (by Samsung of all companies, not known for their great quality control) it seems crazy that Panasonic isn't making sure their flagship TVs live up to it.


What I'm saying is that what you've observed doesn't actually disprove my theory (that all of the 2012 Panasonic plasmas display this behavior and that this performance is measurably far worse than some other plasma TVs). If you want to disprove what I said I can get you the looping gameplay video of Borderlands 2 I use to conduct my tests, as I'd be interested in having more data on the subject (it's as hard as you might think to convince people to let you test for IR on their fancy new TV).


While I'm here I'll mention that I'm going to try to get my local Best Buy to let me run this test on one of their 2013 models. I highly doubt they'll let me, but it's worth a shot. Kind of tempting to just buy a 50" ST60 to test and then return it, but that feels really dishonest.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293229
> 
> 
> The problem with your data is that you didn't actually test for it. You just found that it didn't happen in your normal watching pattern. I'm specifically going to TVs and running the same test on them which, so far, has produced the same IR on every one (it did take slightly longer on the VT though). I've done the same test on my 5080 and did it on an E7000 I owned for about 2 weeks (couldn't stand those brightness pops or the general dullness of the display) and couldn't produce any trace of IR. I've done far worse things to my 5080 just in its normal lifespan, including using it as a PC monitor. If this performance is possible (by Samsung of all companies, not known for their great quality control) it seems crazy that Panasonic isn't making sure their flagship TVs live up to it.
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is that what you've observed doesn't actually disprove my theory (that all of the 2012 Panasonic plasmas display this behavior and that this performance is measurably far worse than some other plasma TVs). If you want to disprove what I said I can get you the looping gameplay video of Borderlands 2 I use to conduct my tests, as I'd be interested in having more data on the subject (it's as hard as you might think to convince people to let you test for IR on their fancy new TV).



We will have to agree to disagree then


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293243
> 
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree then



Why not just do the test so we don't have to? I'm not trying to win this. What do I win, disappointment? You don't even have to use my video (it's always the same video for some degree of scientific consistency, but all that matters is that it has the HUD elements). Just find 10 minutes of Borderlands 2 gameplay on youtube and play it on a loop for 3 hours at 70 contrast.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293277
> 
> 
> Why not just do the test so we don't have to? I'm not trying to win this. What do I win, disappointment? You don't even have to use my video (it's always the same video for some degree of scientific consistency, but all that matters is that it has the HUD elements). Just find 10 minutes of Borderlands 2 gameplay on youtube and play it on a loop for 3 hours at 70 contrast.



Thanks for the offer but not interested good luck finding more test subjects


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23293295
> 
> 
> Thanks for the offer but not interested good luck finding more test subjects



Worth a shot. Why doesn't anyone want to risk their expensive TV just to satisfy my curiosity on this issue? ;D


----------



## MonicaJae

I have the 55ST60 and a couple of times have noticed some faint IR especially after playing about 1-2 hours Battlefield 3. I have maybe 150+ hours on it so far with intervals of time running break-in slides, screen wipe or just plain widescreen tv with no bars. I've been especially careful with networks such as nick, H2, CN, etc. I keep reading conflicting data regarding this issue. Some writers for say, CNET, basically generalize. For example, that for the first 200 hrs, to be REALLY sure, one must be careful of the pre-break-in IR or BI.


So, Is this definitively a recent Panasonic Plasma TV issue (last 3-5 years to present)? Isn't pixel orbiter supposed to deal with this issue? Oh, just to mention, I have watched some of the Playoff games in full mode and had no problems. However, i did notice that the score/team bar at the top wasn't _always_ there. It seemed that at the most, it would be on for like a minute, and then they would switch to a replay or redraw it on the screen, or show a different image bar. But it wasn't a persistent presence in my understanding of that phrase. Now i'm nervous because after doing, what i thought to be, exhaustive research regarding which plasma to purchase, I remember reading articles on many sites: CNET, eHOW, hdguru(?) and some others that usually after the "normal" break-in phase of at least 100-500 hours, that one should be able to watch the tv as he/she wished.

















Also, i have a squaretrade warranty that states that dead pixels are covered, so i'm hoping that would apply to burn-in or bad IR as well. Since both are inherent attributes to either LCD/LED's or plasma.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23294068
> 
> 
> I have the 55ST60 and a couple of times have noticed some faint IR especially after playing about 1-2 hours Battlefield 3. I have maybe 150+ hours on it so far with intervals of time running break-in slides, screen wipe or just plain widescreen tv with no bars. I've been especially careful with networks such as nick, H2, CN, etc. I keep reading conflicting data regarding this issue. Some writers for say, CNET, basically generalize. For example, that for the first 200 hrs, to be REALLY sure, one must be careful of the pre-break-in IR or BI.



I'm curious: Is the IR you describe an inverse ghost of the static HUD elements or is it the same brightness? In other words, if we look at the health element of the HUD from BF3, does this leave a bright ghost of the number 100 against a black background or a slightly dimmer ghost against a neutral background, like dark grey or that movie preview green. Which of those you get will determine whether this is residual charge IR (harmless, goes away within minutes) or the more stubborn long-duration IR that can take hours. You're the first person I've seen talk about IR on an XX60 model so it'd be amazing to get an answer on that one. I actually re-ran my IR test on my GT50 today, just to see if a few hundred hours had made a difference (they didn't) so here's an example of what long-duration IR looks like:

 


See how the text made a dark imprint? That was bright white text. That's the kind of IR I'm hunting for. I expect this particular one to be around for maybe 5-6 hours of normal viewing, but it does start to fade after just a couple hours to the point where you probably wouldn't spot it in normal content.


> Quote:
> So, Is this definitively a recent Panasonic Plasma TV issue (last 3-5 years to present)? Isn't pixel orbiter supposed to deal with this issue? Oh, just to mention, I have watched some of the Playoff games in full mode and had no problems. However, i did notice that the score/team bar at the top wasn't _always_ there. It seemed that at the most, it would be on for like a minute, and then they would switch to a replay or redraw it on the screen, or show a different image bar. But it wasn't a persistent presence in my understanding of that phrase. Now i'm nervous because after doing, what i thought to be, exhaustive research regarding which plasma to purchase, I remember reading articles on many sites: CNET, eHOW, hdguru(?) and some others that usually after the "normal" break-in phase of at least 100-500 hours, that one should be able to watch the tv as he/she wished.



It is not specifically a Panasonic problem -- before Pioneer essentially schooled everyone in how to make plasma I'm fairly confident that every plasma TV experienced this amount of long-duration IR. In fact even though I mention the 2012 Samsungs for their good IR performance, all of the smaller sized Samsung panels from 2012 experience the exact same IR as the Panasonics. The reason it's surprising is because if you followed the development of plasma by watching Pioneer, and then maybe even bought a late-generation Pioneer (I have a 720p 8th gen) you probably got the impression that IR problems were done. Except it's 6+ years later (not sure when Pioneer actually first solved this problem) and it's an issue that's still around for the other manufacturers.


Unfortunately most of the information about IR out there is wrong and then gets repeated by almost everyone, including major review sites. The orbiter is a feel good feature essentially; moving the image by 4 pixels will only help if your static screen element is smaller than 4 pixels, which most aren't. At best this may help protect you from very small text, like what you'd get if you hook your display up to a PC and open a web browser.


The break-in period is a combination of two other things that are real, but does not specifically apply to IR anymore. Many people break in their panels before they calibrate them because color balance and gamma can shift quite a bit when the TV is brand new. And in the old days you might do this to evenly age the panel because panels actually aged very quickly back then, especially when new. Modern plasmas have a half life of 100,000 hours, so actually aging a dark spot into the screen should be extremely difficult. More importantly from reports I've read (and my own testing as of today) even 500+ hours won't change IR performance (I've seen one guy report the same IR after over 2000 hours).


> Quote:
> Also, i have a squaretrade warranty that states that dead pixels are covered, so i'm hoping that would apply to burn-in or bad IR as well. Since both are inherent attributes to either LCD/LED's or plasma.



I don't know the answer to that one. Generally the rule is that unless IR/burn-in is explicitly stated to be covered in the warranty it won't be covered. But before you worry about that check if you're seeing dark IR like my image above or bright IR, which is a normal thing that even the Pioneers do.


I'm also going to clarify like I have in the past when talking about IR that these Panasonics are still excellent TVs so long as you're relatively careful. Even my GT50 soundly beats my Pioneer 5080HD in every image quality measurement besides IR (and screen uniformity, but that's a nitpick issue at most).


----------



## D_M

Headless,



Thanks for the information. I'm disappointed that the "unmentionable" appears to still regin at the top in terms of durability. I don't want to constantly be the Tv police in the house.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D_M*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23296251
> 
> 
> Headless,
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information. I'm disappointed that the "unmentionable" appears to still regin at the top in terms of durability. I don't want to constantly be the Tv police in the house.



That really is the dilemma. I'm not all that concerned about this issue on the small GT50 I hooked up to my PC because I can regulate how I use it (I'd prefer if it wasn't an issue, but I can deal with it). The problem is that I'm looking for something larger and newer to replace the 5080HD in my living room and I can't realistically regulate how it'll be used. The 5080 has held up amazingly well to all the worst kinds of TV abuse you can imagine (games left on menu screens all day, cartoons paused for hours, the worst static logo channels, etc.) and never shown any long-duration IR. I just can't trust a big 2012 Panasonic for that job after seeing the IR performance.


I think the reason this remains unsolved is because of Panasonic's market focus. I read a really interesting conversation over at HDJ with the insider there about input lag. He basically said that the company wasn't interested in the gamer market at all and that he wasn't even willing to bring up input lag at meetings anymore because the higher-ups would basically laugh at him. Gamers weren't buying their TVs in numbers that mattered so it didn't make sense to them to spend money on this aspect.


In reality the market they're focused on at this point is the serious AV guy who buys a high end TV for home theater use. This person realistically isn't going to let any kids or other family members use the thing for games or normal TV at all, and probably has no personal interest in those things. So the current level of IR performance fits that application; if your TV only sees BR disk movies and shows there's no such thing as IR because there simply are no static screen elements.


This leaves those of us who want a TV that can do both (be an the best home theater display AND the family general-purpose TV) without a good option. A guy like me who wants a HT-quality display for PC gaming is completely off their radar, but I understand that because I think that market is literally me and like 3 other guys on this forum. I'm going to continue to try to get reports on IR from 2013 models, but I'm not all that hopeful after reading what the insider had to say.


----------



## Jarrycanada

Thanks for posting here headlesschickens, you clearly do understand the problem of IR and plasma tv's.



I am sorta going slightly mad now. as my eyes are drawn to IR every time I watch tv. I can't relax anymore. I've also noticed the line problem too now. a big long white line runs up and down the right corner of the screen of the tv, it's very faint but you can see it on slides and some tv programs. i've read that this is normal but it's like watching a movie on a projector with the projector shooting at a bedroom wall.


so here is a crazy problem I also have I was looking at buying a dvd bluray player so i could play the wow disc to maybe fix some of the IR/burn in problems. I know it's wishful thinking. but I quickly noticed that all of the new dvd players have the same crap interface. they all have web smart tv type interfaces. they all have nice big icons like we are watching movies on a small 20" tv again. yet most of us have got 50" screens or bigger. what really upsets me is that none of them are plasma friendly. My old pioneer player just has the company logo then black screen. i can turn off all the onscreen controls so I only get no dvd menus. but it can't play blurays. so here is the problem I got to use a blu-ray player that is prone to IR in order to remove IR LOL.ohh god what madness have I got my self into.


Tell me does calibration really take into effect how much likely a TV is to getting IR or does it just make the tv less likely to see IR. I never got my tv calibrated because it's a cheap tv. yet now i've got IR. not such a cheap tv anymore if I have to get it calibrated en-order to get it working right.


I think tv's today are just so poorly made in general. regardless of name brand or model. what you get for your money is better value in that it's a bigger screen for the buck but your not getting quality built products. everything is going this way, TV's dvd players. microwave ovens, Cordless Phones, toasters. you can't find a good toaster anymore, that's a oxymoron.


when I look back at my old tv it makes me really sad because it was really well made tv. but today when you look even at the most expensive TV's in the shops you can clearly see they are cheap made tv's that your lucky if you can get 10 years out of them at best.


----------



## y2j420

Headless,


That screenshot you posted is exactly the same style of IR I have on my plasma that I posted a few pages back..unfortunately, mine is not IR...it's burn in...that won't go away no matter how much you try to clear it...I'm going on 4 1/2+ months of trying to correct it and it is still there...


----------



## Mactavish

@JarryCanada


Any new Blue Ray decks will have a setting for "screen saving", so in that regard they are Plasma friendly. I have an Oppo 83, a Samsung up-rez DVD player, a Panasonic 60 BR player, and a new Panasonic 330 3D BR player, those as well as my VT50 all have timeouts for the screen savers, so there is no IR or Burn-in concerns in that regard. Of course each has a menu and options one should read and then look at for the detailed settings.


----------



## Jarrycanada

Every dvd player since the late 90's has a screen saver,. all of them have a screen saver but it doens't change the fact that your play button is in the same place each time. your youtube app is in the same place too. so if you use those functions on your plasma tv it's going to slowly ever so slowly burn into your tv over time or so I now worry about happening and it doesn't take very long for it to happen. if those icons are super large like most of them seem to be anymore. I was doing a google/youtube search today looking at models of dvd players and they all have the same type of mindless menu.


anyway I don't feel like ranting anymore about it. it's depressing me.

BTW I am sorry if I got anyone else upset about all of this, I am just really angry right now.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23297165
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting here headlesschickens, you clearly do understand the problem of IR and plasma tv's.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorta going slightly mad now. as my eyes are drawn to IR every time I watch tv. I can't relax anymore. I've also noticed the line problem too now. a big long white line runs up and down the right corner of the screen of the tv, it's very faint but you can see it on slides and some tv programs. i've read that this is normal but it's like watching a movie on a projector with the projector shooting at a bedroom wall.
> 
> 
> so here is a crazy problem I also have I was looking at buying a dvd bluray player so i could play the wow disc to maybe fix some of the IR/burn in problems. I know it's wishful thinking. but I quickly noticed that all of the new dvd players have the same crap interface. they all have web smart tv type interfaces. they all have nice big icons like we are watching movies on a small 20" tv again. yet most of us have got 50" screens or bigger. what really upsets me is that none of them are plasma friendly. My old pioneer player just has the company logo then black screen. i can turn off all the onscreen controls so I only get no dvd menus. but it can't play blurays. so here is the problem I got to use a blu-ray player that is prone to IR in order to remove IR LOL.ohh god what madness have I got my self into.



You don't really need any special DVD to try to wipe IR. I run a playlist of episodes of Adventure Time on a loop. Just something full screen with a good dynamic range and lots of bright scenes will work as well as anything else. Technically a static white slide is the best but I personally don't like keeping the panel at the highest possible temperature for that long.


> Quote:
> Tell me does calibration really take into effect how much likely a TV is to getting IR or does it just make the tv less likely to see IR. I never got my tv calibrated because it's a cheap tv. yet now i've got IR. not such a cheap tv anymore if I have to get it calibrated en-order to get it working right.



Realistically calibration shouldn't make a difference. In theory it could if the TV is calibrated to a lower overall brightness than you might use normally, however most of the calibrated settings I've seen for these TVs are actually higher contrast than what I use normally, which is about 65 or 70. The real goal of calibration is to equalize the color balance, flatten out the gamma, and then match certain common standards for cinema image reproduction (which is why they're often calibrated to much warmer white than most people expect).


> Quote:
> I think tv's today are just so poorly made in general. regardless of name brand or model. what you get for your money is better value in that it's a bigger screen for the buck but your not getting quality built products. everything is going this way, TV's dvd players. microwave ovens, Cordless Phones, toasters. you can't find a good toaster anymore, that's a oxymoron.



Inclined to agree there. I'd personally rather pay more for better stuff if that's how things have to be, but obviously market research and the general economic climate tells companies that most people would rather pay the same price for lower quality items. The absurd thing is that Panasonic's plasma technology is really great, except for a couple very annoying defects (the screen uniformity from 2012 wasn't great, and the IR problem is fairly serious for casual users). I imagine both of those issues come down to cost-cutting in manufacturing. The thing that really bothers me is that I can't even opt to pay more to avoid these issues; even the VT from 2012 had screen uniformity and IR problems.


> Quote:
> when I look back at my old tv it makes me really sad because it was really well made tv. but today when you look even at the most expensive TV's in the shops you can clearly see they are cheap made tv's that your lucky if you can get 10 years out of them at best.



I feel that way about my 5080HD. It's an amazing TV considering the technology at the time. I really wish I'd picked up a 6020FD the next year when I found out Pioneer was bailing on plasma. I remember Best Buy had like a dozen of them just stacked up and selling for like $3000 when the announcement came out.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *y2j420*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23297177
> 
> 
> Headless,
> 
> 
> That screenshot you posted is exactly the same style of IR I have on my plasma that I posted a few pages back..unfortunately, mine is not IR...it's burn in...that won't go away no matter how much you try to clear it...I'm going on 4 1/2+ months of trying to correct it and it is still there...



Wow, sorry to hear it. I've seen people report similar things on here and so I'm always afraid that the long-duration IR really can become permanent if it gets bad enough. That's why I won't re-expose an offending source (in this case a game with a static HUD) until I'm certain the previous imprint is 100% gone.



Hopefully MonicaJae will come back and be able to detail the IR from that ST60 at some point. I'd like to believe that Panasonic would take this issue seriously for the 2013 models since they're clearly aware of it.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23297999
> 
> 
> Every dvd player since the late 90's has a screen saver,. all of them have a screen saver but it doens't change the fact that your play button is in the same place each time. your youtube app is in the same place too. so if you use those functions on your plasma tv it's going to slowly ever so slowly burn into your tv over time or so I now worry about happening and it doesn't take very long for it to happen. if those icons are super large like most of them seem to be anymore. I was doing a google/youtube search today looking at models of dvd players and they all have the same type of mindless menu.
> 
> 
> anyway I don't feel like ranting anymore about it. it's depressing me.
> 
> BTW I am sorry if I got anyone else upset about all of this, I am just really angry right now.



Sorry for your anger. I've left, meaning walked away, with every menu on screen as you listed, since they timed out via the screen saver, I was not concerned, nor have I seen any IR or burn-in from those menus on my VT50, at all. I believe they time out in less then 10 minutes, some like the AppleTV can time out quicker depending on the choices one makes. If you are seeing any IR with menus on screen for 10 minutes or less, I would look into whatever return/repair options you may have, because that's certainly not normal at all. Wish you the best of luck!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23297999
> 
> 
> Every dvd player since the late 90's has a screen saver,. all of them have a screen saver but it doens't change the fact that your play button is in the same place each time. your youtube app is in the same place too. so if you use those functions on your plasma tv it's going to slowly ever so slowly burn into your tv over time or so I now worry about happening and it doesn't take very long for it to happen. if those icons are super large like most of them seem to be anymore. I was doing a google/youtube search today looking at models of dvd players and they all have the same type of mindless menu.



The Disney Wow pixel flipper runs in a continuous loop so you shouldn't have any problems. Unless your player has some unforeseen hiccup the pixel flipper runs until you stop it. I regularly run the pixel flipper overnight without issue. My plasma is in the basement, so out of sight out mind, and I have occasionally left pixel flipper running for a day or two, unintentionally (not recommended).


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23294582
> 
> 
> I'm curious: Is the IR you describe an inverse ghost of the static HUD elements or is it the same brightness? In other words, if we look at the health element of the HUD from BF3, does this leave a bright ghost of the number 100 against a black background or a slightly dimmer ghost against a neutral background, like dark grey or that movie preview green. Which of those you get will determine whether this is residual charge IR (harmless, goes away within minutes) or the more stubborn long-duration IR that can take hours. You're the first person I've seen talk about IR on an XX60 model so it'd be amazing to get an answer on that one. I actually re-ran my IR test on my GT50 today, just to see if a few hundred hours had made a difference (they didn't) so here's an example of what long-duration IR looks like:



Actually the IR was definitely NOT as bad as that pic







THank god.

It was in the corner left and I noticed it because i wanted to see the "damage" I may have done, and there it was. So I would say it was some white ghosting(?). And now that I think about it, it may not have been BF3 at all but maybe the dashboard. (XBOX 360 Elite) Or the DICE logo. But i do know that there were letters involved and it was a very faint white. I honestly don't think i would've noticed it had I not started reading these forums lol. However the upside of that is i didn't just start open box. so that's a good thing.


oh, and i can't seem to adjust the horizontal or vertical screen settings for games. one arrow always seems to be short of the edge wile the corresponding arrow is perfecgtly lined up. this happens with both hor and vert. i have tried every method avail that uses the zoom adjustment feature. even with that the arrow points dont line up. what gives?


----------



## MonicaJae

Oh and I too have that white vertical bar about 3 inches in width on the right side of my panel about 4" in. I'm starting to feel misled about this malarkey. i read in a lot of articles that after a certain amount of time, IR will become issueless. Also I'm reading that one would really have to work really hard to acheive burn-in nowadays. This is even on CNET. Feeling really disillusioned.


----------



## Blu_One

Dk t


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23300830
> 
> 
> Oh and I too have that white vertical bar about 3 inches in width on the right side of my panel about 4" in. I'm starting to feel misled about this malarkey. i read in a lot of articles that after a certain amount of time, IR will become issueless. Also I'm reading that one would really have to work really hard to acheive burn-in nowadays. This is even on CNET. Feeling really disillusioned.



Don't make too much of it. As mentioned Disney Wow BD pixel flipper once in a while, done


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23300630
> 
> 
> Actually the IR was definitely NOT as bad as that pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THank god.
> 
> It was in the corner left and I noticed it because i wanted to see the "damage" I may have done, and there it was. So I would say it was some white ghosting(?). And now that I think about it, it may not have been BF3 at all but maybe the dashboard. (XBOX 360 Elite) Or the DICE logo. But i do know that there were letters involved and it was a very faint white. I honestly don't think i would've noticed it had I not started reading these forums lol. However the upside of that is i didn't just start open box. so that's a good thing.



Sorry to keep poking you about this, but like I said you're the only person to talk about IR on an XX60 series that I've seen so far. I just want to be sure I'm following what you're describing because if so it's good news. So from what you're describing it sounds like short-duration IR, in the sense that the ghosted image was slightly brighter than the pixels around it? As in the opposite of my picture (if the text imprint had been slightly lighter green than the surrounding area instead of darker).


If that's true then you're just looking at residual cell charge, which is completely harmless and goes away quickly. In fact if you can play BF3 for a couple hours without creating any long-duration IR that's a huge step up from the XX50 series. Anytime I load up BF3 for a couple hours I always end up with a slight dark imprint of the "100" from the health display in the lower right corner.


I want to ask you to try something, but I completely understand if it's too much hassle. You mention using break in slides so I'm going to assume one of them is the green one I used to show IR above. If you could put that slide up next time you play a couple hours of BF3 (or really anything with a bright HUD, my example above is from Borderlands 2 which has especially bright HUDs) and look for any signs of "dark" ghosts, especially around the health # and the names of your squad members, that would provide some interesting data. If you don't get dark ghosting it'd potentially be great news for everyone who has or is thinking about getting a 2013 Panasonic.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23300847
> 
> 
> Dk t
> 
> Don't make too much of it. As mentioned Disney Wow BD pixel flipper once in a while, done



You're technically right, and I kept my GT50 after realizing it was manageable, but the frustrating part of the issue is that this kind of IR was a solved problem. Anyone upgrading from a Pioneer (and there are definitely going to be quite a few this year) is going to be surprised when they find they're taking a step back in this area (*assuming the IR performance hasn't improved in 2013, which it could have). Especially if, like me, they got used to treating their plasma like an LCD without any consequences.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> Sorry to keep poking you about this,


Not a problem










> Quote:
> But like I said you're the only person to talk about IR on an XX60 series that I've seen so far. I just want to be sure I'm following what you're describing because if so it's good news. So from what you're describing it sounds like short-duration IR, in the sense that the ghosted image was slightly brighter than the pixels around it? As in the opposite of my picture (if the text imprint had been slightly lighter green than the surrounding area instead of darker).



yes that is correct. the image was the opposite of what you showed


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> If that's true then you're just looking at residual cell charge, which is completely harmless and goes away quickly. In fact if you can play BF3 for a couple hours without creating any long-duration IR that's a huge step up from the XX50 series. Anytime I load up BF3 for a couple hours I always end up with a slight dark imprint of the "100" from the health display in the lower right corner.



i have to admit thqt there was one point when the menu screen was on and i had to go upstairs to do something and maybe 3 minutes later remembered i left it static on-screen and immediately ran downstairs to put on CN and I think it was then that i noticed it--probably coupled with the fact that I was playing for a while.


I was out and just returned home to find my son playing BO2 . he said it was for about 45--50 minutes and there was no sign of IR. Plus he wasn't in game mode.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> I want to ask you to try something, but I completely understand if it's too much hassle.



i can experiment a bit.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> You mention using break in slides so I'm going to assume one of them is the green one I used to show IR above. If you could put that slide up next time you play a couple hours of BF3 (or really anything with a bright HUD, my example above is from Borderlands 2 which has especially bright HUDs) and look for any signs of "dark" ghosts, especially around the health # and the names of your squad members, that would provide some interesting data. If you don't get dark ghosting it'd potentially be great news for everyone who has or is thinking about getting a 2013 Panasonic.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> You're technically right, and I kept my GT50 after realizing it was manageable, but the frustrating part of the issue is that this kind of IR was a solved problem. Anyone upgrading from a Pioneer (and there are definitely going to be quite a few this year) is going to be surprised when they find they're taking a step back in this area (*assuming the IR performance hasn't improved in 2013, which it could have). Especially if, like me, they got used to treating their plasma like an LCD without any consequences.



Is the only tell of IR vs BI the fact that BI can't go away--is BR darker than IR? is that one of it's characters? Is it possible that BI can be what I said above about having the opposite effect than your IR? E.g, can it be really light? This thread is very enlightening for me







Don't stop your posts









IMG_0439.JPG 1562k .JPG file


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23301396
> 
> 
> You're technically right, and I kept my GT50 after realizing it was manageable, but the frustrating part of the issue is that this kind of IR was a solved problem. Anyone upgrading from a Pioneer (and there are definitely going to be quite a few this year) is going to be surprised when they find they're taking a step back in this area (*assuming the IR performance hasn't improved in 2013, which it could have). Especially if, like me, they got used to treating their plasma like an LCD without any consequences.



Yeah I see what you mean.. plasma displays are a whole other ballgame..


I think the 2013 Panasonics might show some improvements in that regard.


----------



## Jarrycanada

quick Question: when you run the Disney Wow BD pixel flipper is it normal to see static snow like when the cables unplugged but with vertical lines running down the screen, sorta like the matrix? if you look you see these vertical lines.. just asking because I don't need anymore vertical lines on my screen, like MonicaJae is talking about. I have two of them really faint. one on the right side and a smaller one a little left of the right one anyway never mind that.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23302629
> 
> 
> quick Question: when you run the Disney Wow BD pixel flipper is it normal to see static snow like when the cables unplugged but with vertical lines running down the screen, sorta like the matrix? if you look you see these vertical lines.. just asking because I don't need anymore vertical lines on my screen, like MonicaJae is talking about. I have two of them really faint. one on the right side and a smaller one a little left of the right one anyway never mind that.



I must admit that the only time it bothers me is when i have a color slide or a white slide. Any other time it's not noticeable whatsoever. I think i can live with that.


I must report, and delightedly i may add, that I played BF3 for about 8 hours straight tonight with absolutely NO IR. YAY!!!







i am so happy to have to say those words. i'm very happy at the moment!









 


POST BF3 after close to 8 hours










ON the other hand:


I'm still a little reticent to watch channels with static logos (the really obnoxious ones, at least) for too long a time; which for me means about 15 minutes at a time. Is that extreme?


----------



## crn3371

I've noticed some slight IR from a channel logo on my 50st60. Doesn't bother me as it really doesn't show during regular viewing. What I'm wondering is if it's worth running screen wipe or pixel flipper every so often as sort of a preventative maintenance thing.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crn3371*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23304197
> 
> 
> I've noticed some slight IR from a channel logo on my 50st60. Doesn't bother me as it really doesn't show during regular viewing. What I'm wondering is if it's worth running screen wipe or pixel flipper every so often as sort of a preventative maintenance thing.



Absolutely, once in a while, preventive measure, can't hurt.


I recommend the pixel flipper found on the Disney's Wow BD


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crn3371*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23304197
> 
> 
> I've noticed some slight IR from a channel logo on my 50st60. Doesn't bother me as it really doesn't show during regular viewing. What I'm wondering is if it's worth running screen wipe or pixel flipper every so often as sort of a preventative maintenance thing.



For how long did you have it on? Just wondering so I have some frame of reference. Also, how many hours have you on the TV? Did you do any of the "break-in" suggestions? how much time do you devote to like gaming, movies and television? Thanks


----------



## crn3371

I ran D-Nice's slides for 100 hours. No gaming. Maybe 200 hours on set. The logo I see IR from is from the station I watch my local and national news on

(ABC 7). Usually daily, M-F, couple of hours a day. The IR doesn't bother me in the least as I only see it under certain circumstances (just the right solid background). I have no complaints with the set whatsoever. Just was wondering about the benefits of running pixel flipper on some type of regular basis as a preventative maintenance type of thing.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crn3371*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23304197
> 
> 
> I've noticed some slight IR from a channel logo on my 50st60. Doesn't bother me as it really doesn't show during regular viewing. What I'm wondering is if it's worth running screen wipe or pixel flipper every so often as sort of a preventative maintenance thing.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23304224
> 
> 
> Absolutely, once in a while, preventive measure, can't hurt.
> 
> 
> I recommend the pixel flipper found on the Disney's Wow BD





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crn3371*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23304565
> 
> 
> I ran D-Nice's slides for 100 hours. No gaming. Maybe 200 hours on set. The logo I see IR from is from the station I watch my local and national news on
> 
> (ABC 7). Usually daily, M-F, couple of hours a day. The IR doesn't bother me in the least as I only see it under certain circumstances (just the right solid background). I have no complaints with the set whatsoever. Just was wondering about the benefits of running pixel flipper on some type of regular basis as a preventative maintenance type of thing.



Aren't you asking the same question as an hour ago ??










Just run it once in a while, IT'S GOOD TO DO THAT, no harm.


----------



## Jarrycanada

Question: when you look at the pixel flipper does it seem to create static lines that run down the screen. like the matrix opening but not green, just gray white static, and some strange form of lines. it's really hard to take a picture because of the detail levels are lost. but here goes.

http://cdn.avsforum.com/4/43/900x900px-LL-435009c4_pixelflippermaxtrix.jpeg 


anyone else cares to share if this image looks normal to you please feel free.


NEXTDAY FOLLOW UP: I played the filpper disc on another tv, connected it up with the same bu-ray player and it worked fine so that told me it's not the player. so I tried again on my Panasonic tv and it didn't work again but I played with the settings on the tv and found the problem was the tv was set to FULL screen mode 1 and not mode 2 that is needed to see the pixels at full screen. as soon as I switched that mode on, it was like night and day better. IE no more matrix like bars running down the screen. I was worried that those lines would burn in or screw up my tv over time as it didn't look right.


it should look like it does on HD Nation with Robert heron

HD Nation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0hj5_9HSiI 


this video link should be on the first page of this topic forum as it explains burn in break in very well. just a suggestion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiuL8Co3lX4 


Sorry if some people got confused with my other problem that the dirty screen effect and is another problem altogether, that i hope will go away in time.

I have not run the pixel fliper yet as I am still taking it one day at a time.


----------



## crn3371




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23304633
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you asking the same question as an hour ago ??


I was responding to MonicaJae who had asked about my usage, etc.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crn3371*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23304787
> 
> 
> I was responding to MonicaJae who had asked about my usage, etc.



Oh ok, I see, my answer wasn't good enough for you, gotcha now.


----------



## GiantSquid

I am watching the shootout and everybody is pointing out the IR caused by 4x3 black bars in the two Panasonics. It was most apparent on the ZT.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GiantSquid*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23305088
> 
> 
> I am watching the shootout and everybody is pointing out the IR caused by 4x3 black bars in the two Panasonics. It was most apparent on the ZT.



Really ?


I would think that this IR is far from permanent though.. How was the 8500 looking on that ?


----------



## GiantSquid

I was impossible for me to see from the webcam but the people in the audience pointed it out.


----------



## Blu_One

Right, I see what you mean, I was watching last night for 2+ hours


----------



## MonicaJae

I thought it important to let others know the 411 regarding my P55ST60:


My son just finished up playing Black Ops 2 just now. He started at around ten this morning. Ran break-in slides to make a conscious effort to look for IR. Couldn't find ANY. He plays both core/hardcore; i.e., HUD display vs. No HUD-except for the occasional UAV hud in upper left for a 4 kill kill-streak every so often. That usually is pretty dynamic and somewhat transparent. He also played Battlefield 3 for a couple of hours, and Minecraft for about 2 hours. I asked him to turn down the opacity in MC.


He did have a 2 hour break when the Rangers/Capitols game came on. Left it on Full. Rangers won, BTW. Just thought I'd let that in










OH, and we did watch one episode of Adventure Time for which I did zoom. I think I may start to tinker with normal viewing of stations with obnoxious static logos, e.g., Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, H2, NatGeo, etc. All HD. (for whatever reason, since the last Xfinity firmware update, Spongebob Squarepants is no longer full screen, so need to zoom it. Neither is the guide full screen anymore...annoying.)


I keep my settings at 50 or below and on cinema or hometheater. I am thinking about upping the contrast and brightness a bit. have it on warm2. Sharpness below 60. Even at these low settings, this tv is AWESOME! I can't get over the PQ. Really just sooo happy I made this purchase. The hockey game was beautifully displayed. The colors just POP right out of the screen. OMG Even in a well lit area it's easy to view. No complaints there.


Don't worry guys, i will report more as time elapses.


Must make a noticeable comparison here: Reds are red, blues are blue, greens are green, yellows are yellow, black BLACK...my point? On my samsung lcd, which i thought had a phenomenal picture, i could never get the Rangers' pants _red_ or the home jersey truly _blue_. Now they look as they should. That's what _I really notice_. I never thought it was achievable. But here it is.


This set has about 300 hours on it with no black bar viewing (letterbox), no tickers, static logos at a minimum unless 'transparent'.


Peace, out.











I do have one question:


Even though I have the 4:3 content configurated to show the black bars at high (bright), It doesn't. I am not sure if it's not reading the signal correctly from my cable box? It's a digital cisco cable box from Xfinity/Comcast.


I never knew that Cable HD content was actually 1080i.


----------



## timofp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4170#post_23296581
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality the market they're focused on at this point is the serious AV guy who buys a high end TV for home theater use. This person realistically isn't going to let any kids or other family members use the thing for games or normal TV at all, and probably has no personal interest in those things. So the current level of IR performance fits that application; if your TV only sees BR disk movies and shows there's no such thing as IR because there simply are no static screen elements.
> 
> 
> This leaves those of us who want a TV that can do both (be an the best home theater display AND the family general-purpose TV) without a good option. A guy like me who wants a HT-quality display for PC gaming is completely off their radar, but I understand that because I think that market is literally me and like 3 other guys on this forum. I'm going to continue to try to get reports on IR from 2013 models, but I'm not all that hopeful after reading what the insider had to say.



Well seems like they will only focus on English Speaking markets also. (or dubbing only markets). Because I didn't game on my Samsung PS60E6500, never watched TV (don't have cable). I only watched DVD's and Bluray's of TV Shows and I got 2 dark bars at the bottom of the screen from the subtitles. And this is even on the PS60E6500 which is according to reviews one of the most IR resistant TV's. So even subtitles are static for IR purposes. I ran the scrolling bar for over 100 hours now, but it's still there, more faint, but still noticeable during normal viewing when the camera pans up or down. I ordered the DIsney WOW disc now, hope it will help.


----------



## CheYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23308900
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew that Cable HD content was actually 1080i.



I think FOX and ESPN are the only channels that don't do 1080i and do 720p instead.


----------



## GunmetalR56




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23308900
> 
> 
> I thought it important to let others know the 411 regarding my P55ST60:
> 
> 
> My son just finished up playing Black Ops 2 just now. He started at around ten this morning. Ran break-in slides to make a conscious effort to look for IR. Couldn't find ANY. He plays both core/hardcore; i.e., HUD display vs. No HUD-except for the occasional UAV hud in upper left for a 4 kill kill-streak every so often. That usually is pretty dynamic and somewhat transparent. He also played Battlefield 3 for a couple of hours, and Minecraft for about 2 hours.



Color me jealous! I played BO2 for an hour and BAM! Big time HUD ir. I plan to keep running slides during the day to age the panel but seeing posts like yours is making me think I may have a bad set.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GunmetalR56*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23309650
> 
> 
> Color me jealous! I played BO2 for an hour and BAM! Big time HUD ir. I plan to keep running slides during the day to age the panel but seeing posts like yours is making me think I may have a bad set.



how long have you owned it and did you break it in before playing? I have some 200+ hours on it and was really careful not to play games on it right away. I'm pretty OCD...


I'm no expert, but every review or thread about new plasma's recommend break-in periods. OK, i may have lied a little--I did play BF3 like the first week I got this to test my insecurities and get an idea about plasma in general. suffice it to say i did get some IR. not too major but enough to scare me into not playing for a little while longer just to be sure.







So yeah i ran the screen wipe and slides for a while and just watched full screen content. and like i said, no problem here







knock on wood










also, with the first IR issue, I had to consciously look for it to actually notice it.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23311813
> 
> 
> how long have you owned it and did you break it in before playing? I have some 200+ hours on it and was really careful not to play games on it right away. I'm pretty OCD...
> 
> 
> I'm no expert, but every review or thread about new plasma's recommend break-in periods. OK, i may have lied a little--I did play BF3 like the first week I got this to test my insecurities and get an idea about plasma in general. suffice it to say i did get some IR. not too major but enough to scare me into not playing for a little while longer just to be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah i ran the screen wipe and slides for a while and just watched full screen content. and like i said, no problem here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> knock on wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, with the first IR issue, I had to consciously look for it to actually notice it.


Breaking it in has no effect on IR. Even discussed at the HDTV shootout and confirmed by the experts. You can run slides for 500 hours, it does not mean you will not get IR.


----------



## curly21029




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23312620
> 
> 
> Breaking it in has no effect on IR. Even discussed at the HDTV shootout and confirmed by the experts. You can run slides for 500 hours, it does not mean you will not get IR.



I was _extremely_ happy for this bit of transparent commentary. When I owned my Panasonic G10, its IR handling was not discernibly better nearly a year later than it was on day one. (and, of course, it significantly worsened after the much-loathed black level rise) Same with my Kuro -- absolutely FANTASTIC for the panel's entire life so far. My brother's 5+ year old Samsung plasma? The same.


I've always given the benefit of the doubt as my experiences were seemingly in the minority and do still acknowledge that running in a panel absolutely has a benefit, but I'm now more convinced than ever that hours of use doesn't carry with it a direct correlation to IR resistance.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CheYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23309624
> 
> 
> I think FOX and ESPN are the only channels that don't do 1080i and do 720p instead.



That's right, afaik


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23312620
> 
> 
> Breaking it in has no effect on IR. Even discussed at the HDTV shootout and confirmed by the experts. You can run slides for 500 hours, it does not mean you will not get IR.



Like I said I'm no expert and I guess I meant ageing the TV before maybe doing some of the things he's mentioned.



CNET Reader Mike Smith asks:

Is there some kind of burn-in procedure to run on new plasma TVs? I've read some crazy stuff online that says all sorts of things and I just don't know what is real from what is nonsense. Please let me know. Thanks.

You aren't kidding, there is some crazy stuff out there.

Plasma TVs, actually all phosphor-based devices, can suffer from something called image retention. This is when a bright image "sticks" on screen after it is supposed to fade away.

As the phosphors age, it becomes harder and harder to cause image retention. As I covered in my Is plasma burn-in a problem? article, image retention is the precursor to the much-


Geoffrey Morrison


Bottom line

Talk of burn in is largely fear mongering. I review plasma TVs all the time, and never have a problem, despite playing games on them. That said, I also know all the details of how they work, so I know not to only play games or only watch 2.35:1 movies. So for the first 100 hours or so (less than a month for most people), don't just watch one thing. It's that easy.

The reality is, modern plasmas are significantly more resilient than old models. So when you hear someone freaking out about plasma "burn in," ask them when was the last time they owned a plasma. I played some Day Z on a high-end plasma I recently reviewed just a few hours after taking the TV out of the box, and even after several hours of play, I saw no signs of image retention. They've gotten that good, or at least some have.

Like I mentioned in the burn in article, you're going to see image retention long before it's a serious issue. So stop worrying you're going to ruin your new plasma TV and just be happy it has a better contrast ratio than your friend's "LED" TV.

One last word of advice. If you're planning on having your TV calibrated, I'd wait for 200 hours or so. Let those phosphors settle in and get nice and comfy before you ask them to be really accurate. This is what David, Ty, myself, and other TV reviewers do before we calibrate the TVs we have under test.


I think he means David Katzmaier


Just going by other things I've read before considering a plasma. Like I said, I'm no expert, and I don't nor did I claim to be one by any means. Just offering my two cents. Do with it what you will.


Oh, and neither in my post did i say anything about NOT getting any IR. As a matter of fact, I see that I do mention that I did get some. Read it again, please.


----------



## MonicaJae

Well Isn't this a lovely day...


So, I was checking my screen after i had left BF3's menu there for maybe 10 minutes? Maybe 15... I came back to the tv, realized what I had done, went, "uh oh" and immediately put it into screen wipe and low and behold there was a Cartoon Network logo imprinted on the screen as plain as day... And It seems to be sticking around. My kids were watching it today, don't know for how long, but I thought I was safe after having aged it at least 300+ hours now, and even with screen wipe It's still there.


How do I determine whether it's stubborn IR or BI? There were some remnants of the BF3 menu, but that has since faded. Now it's at least 20 minutes running screen wipe and a pixel jogger to what it seems to be no avail. I received this tv on the 30th so i have at least 12 days left before I can turn it in. The question is, is this something I have to look forward to with another set? Is it f#[email protected]? I mean if that is the case, why bother with a plasma? I love the pq and should be able to watch it like a normal person especially since it's been "aged". Also, why make a smarttv if the chance of IR or BI is that great? Those are pretty static menus. Don't they expect people to be using them? Or at least browsing them for some length or at least as long as they would like? I really can't tell if it's getting better. My eyes can't really tell the difference, but i think it hasn't really faded. As far as I'm concerned it's the same as when I first noticed it. I really don't want to have to get an LED. That would really suck arse.


Here's a pic, although it is more clearly defined than shows:

 


It looks worse when the screen wipe white rolls over it.


Still there


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23331845
> 
> 
> Well Isn't this a lovely day...
> 
> 
> So, I was checking my screen after i had left BF3's menu there for maybe 10 minutes? Maybe 15... I came back to the tv, realized what I had done, went, "uh oh" and immediately put it into screen wipe and low and behold there was a Cartoon Network logo imprinted on the screen as plain as day... And It seems to be sticking around. My kids were watching it today, don't know for how long, but I thought I was safe after having aged it at least 300+ hours now, and even with screen wipe It's still there.
> 
> 
> How do I determine whether it's stubborn IR or BI? There were some remnants of the BF3 menu, but that has since faded. Now it's at least 20 minutes running screen wipe and a pixel jogger to what it seems to be no avail. I received this tv on the 30th so i have at least 12 days left before I can turn it in. The question is, is this something I have to look forward to with another set? Is it f#[email protected]? I mean if that is the case, why bother with a plasma? I love the pq and should be able to watch it like a normal person especially since it's been "aged". Also, why make a smarttv if the chance of IR or BI is that great? Those are pretty static menus. Don't they expect people to be using them? Or at least browsing them for some length or at least as long as they would like? I really can't tell if it's getting better. My eyes can't really tell the difference, but i think it hasn't really faded. As far as I'm concerned it's the same as when I first noticed it. I really don't want to have to get an LED. That would really suck arse.
> 
> 
> Here's a pic, although it is more clearly defined than shows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks worse when the screen wipe white rolls over it.
> 
> 
> Still there


Every time I question if I made a mistake returning my ST60 I read a post like this and feel good about my LED. Also, people have told me I just got a bad panel. I say BS, the ST60 is prone to IR and just because someone didn't get it yet does not mean it is not coming. I didn't notice and IR until I was about 200 hours into the panel. I could have ran something for 5 hours and not seen any IR but then something I ran for 30 minutes would then stick around for hours or even a day.


What you have is not burn in, it is IR. Get the Disney WOW disc, is a has a pixel flipper. Run it overnight and turn up the contrast. Should be cleared up by the morning. If not, just repeat it overnight again. Based on what I have been reading and witnessed myself, I don't think there is anything wrong with your panel and another one will just do the same thing.


So you will need to decide if you can live with getting IR that can possibly be seen for days before disappearing. You also make a good point about the smart part of the TV. I was afraid to use it for to long because of keeping static images like that on the TV.


----------



## MonicaJae

I could swear I replied to this...


So here is the situation, how can one REALLY be sure it's not burn-in? Also, an hour or two later, when the screen gets white or just about white in that area, i still see it clearly. This is really bumming me out and I only have a few days before i can return this, or i'm SOL.







I really don't mind the wait if it definitely will go away, however, like i said, for sake of time, the wow disc will take a while to arrive, so not sure i have the time. Also, will i have to baby this thing and be "careful" forever or the life of this tv? i eventually would like to be able to watch this tv like a tv. i want to be able to not worry about the letterboxing burn in or static logo burn-in. Stubborn IR is one thing, but will it take longer to get rid of or if by unfortunate chance i should get the same thing with the CN logo again, is there a better chance it will become burn-in? BTW, which LEd did you decide on?


THanks for your input eric. much appreciated.


----------



## bob1511

It wouldn't be permanent burn in that quickly but if you keep watching cartoon network every day your gonna be looking at that logo for along time. I gave my old plasma to my brothers and they did nothing but play Episodes from Liberty City on it. After about a month I noticed the white life bar ring in the lower left was stuck on the screen. It took 2 months of viewing to go away completely now they play it without the map and hud and get owned cause they cant see anyone coming on the map. My experience with plasma.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23332095
> 
> 
> I could swear I replied to this...
> 
> 
> So here is the situation, how can one REALLY be sure it's not burn-in? Also, an hour or two later, when the screen gets white or just about white in that area, i still see it clearly. This is really bumming me out and I only have a few days before i can return this, or i'm SOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't mind the wait if it definitely will go away, however, like i said, for sake of time, the wow disc will take a while to arrive, so not sure i have the time. Also, will i have to baby this thing and be "careful" forever or the life of this tv? i eventually would like to be able to watch this tv like a tv. i want to be able to not worry about the letterboxing burn in or static logo burn-in. Stubborn IR is one thing, but will it take longer to get rid of or if by unfortunate chance i should get the same thing with the CN logo again, is there a better chance it will become burn-in? BTW, which LEd did you decide on?
> 
> 
> THanks for your input eric. much appreciated.


It would not be burn in that quickly. I do not think anyone really knows how weill the TV will handle IR later on in it's life cycle since the TV is still so new. It might get better, it might get worse and it might stay the same. My panel got bad IR from the word Menu and also from Fox Sports. It took 2 nights of the pixel flipper to remove the work menu entirely. Also took 2 night to remove the word Fox Sports. Then watched Fox Sports again and it was back again. That is when I decided to explore my other options.


I ended up getting a Samsung 60es7500. I got a really good deal on it, paid $1,289 although that is still more then I paid for the 60ST60 which I got an insane deal on. So technically I did pay more for the LED which kind of hurts, lol. I wouldn't have settled on anything lower then that thought after owning the ST60. If I was going LED it had to offer a great picture and the Sammy does just that. Even in total darkness with it's local dimming on and the brightness turned down the screen is very uniform and no clouding can be seen. Sometimes I feel like it has a plasma type look to it. Colors are saturated and accurate and the picture is full of depth. With lights on the blacks appear blacker then black.


One weak point to an LED though is it's side angle viewing. It is frustrating to see the picture wash out from the sides.


If I had to pay full retail on an LED of this level not so sure I would have made the move. Probably would have just stuck it out with the ST60.


I still miss my ST60 but I think you might have to be willing to baby it for a while or possible forever. Like I said, no one has had the TV long enough to see how it will handle IR after 1,000's of hours. And honestly, down the line when the TV is no longer new you might not even care as much.


I will tell you this though, from what I have read about IR and burn in, the CN channel is one of the worst out there for it so it does sound normal you would get it from that channel.


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23332407
> 
> 
> I will tell you this though, from what I have read about IR and burn in, the CN channel is one of the worst out there for it so it does sound normal you would get it from that channel.



CN's logo is terrible. Even on my Panasonic 800U, which is practically immune to visible IR, their logo can leave a faint trace of IR after a couple hours of watching although it clears in seconds.


While not exactly the same situation as yours, I ran my ST50 for 1,000 hours logo-free (not my usual 200 hour break in but it was easy since I couldn't move the ST50 into the media room as I needed a wall mount and couldn't buy one until I got paid the following month) and after having it calibrated I watched CN for 5 hours. The IR I got was very visible on any light or gray background but I was able to completely clear it by zooming out CN's logo and then running Adult Swim overnight, so approximately 4 - 8 hours.


I initially planned to sell my ST50 but instead I'm just watching movies (which look phenomenal) and then zooming out the logos and running Adult Swim overnight and Toon Nick while working (use Toon Nick since CN occasionally likes to run large banners) to quickly get the ST50 to 2,000 hours (1,674 per service menu). Once there I'm going to try running CN again for 5 hours to see if the IR is less visible (doubt it) or takes less time to clear (possibly) and with that knowledge just use the ST50 as I see fit from then on.


Edit: This is complete overkill and not something you should have to do for any plasma. I am only doing this because my work schedule is such right now that it's easy to rack up hours and my 800U is perfectly capable of watching TV or playing games for the short periods of time that I am not working.


----------



## MonicaJae

your feedback, guys, is pretty inspiring. I ran screen wipe for a long time and although it's a little fainter, when/if I focus on it for too long it look like it did when i first saw it. maybe thats just my eyes and brain. It's still pretty noticeable, but I was not around when it was on so I'm not sure of it's duration. CN does have the worst logo ever, come to think of it so does nick. I think it was on custom, too, with defaults. that obviously would not have helped the situation. If I glance at it quickly on a white screen i don't see it, but when i stare it is so obvious! But it's a relief to know it isn't BI.


So, with the forever thing, would that be the same as watching letterbox content? That also worries me now too. It's weird because I wasn't getting IR before, at least not as noticeable as this one. even after watching full content movies and leaving the tv on all night and watching cartoons zoomed in blablabla. Oh, stressin, yay. :/


It's just that i'm worried cuz it's been about 10 hours. AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH































M


----------



## Jeremyd5

I'm pretty sure I posted this a couple weeks ago in this forum but I've found that animation does a better job of clearing stubborn IR than the scrolling bar. Doesn't have to be Adult Swim or Toon Nick though. That's just what I use. Even a full screen animated movie would work. I've also read a lot of posts of people running the Disney WOW disc for IR but I haven't tried it.


I haven't had any issues with letterboxed movies on the ST50 but I do tend to naturally switch between full-screen and letterbox aspect ratios when selecting movies. Habit I guess. I'm sure you could run into problems if you only watched letterboxed movies or a lot of 4x3 content but if your mix up your viewing you should be fine.


Edit: Nick's logo is pretty bad too. It's certainly large.


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4140#post_23278057
> 
> 
> I've found that the scrolling bar does not do a great job of removing stubborn IR. My experience has been that animation does a better job of clearing IR. What I do when I get IR is I tune to CN/Adult Swim and just zoom it so that the CN logo is removed and then letting it run overnight during Adult Swim until the IR is gone. One thing to mention is that I wouldn't recommend running CN unattended during the day as CN occasionally likes to run annoying banners or counters for new episodes or specials. Adult Swim is fine though.



Just read with interest your comments above as I am debating about getting a Panny ST50 vs ST60 & recall my old Sammy plasma break-in I did 4 years ago:


200 hours in low brightness/contrast setting of CN zoomed-in.


Except for the occasional 20-30 secs of IR, It turned out great for the 4 years I owned it.


Question: I see you did a heck of a lot of 'prepping & scrubbing' & yet you got some minor IR & were concerned enough to get rid of your TV?

Was the thought that the IR was semi permanent or what?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23336675
> 
> 
> Just read with interest your comments above as I am debating about getting a Panny ST50 vs ST60 & recall my old Sammy plasma break-in I did 4 years ago:
> 
> 
> 200 hours in low brightness/contrast setting of CN zoomed-in.
> 
> 
> Except for the occasional 20-30 secs of IR, It turned out great for the 4 years I owned it.
> 
> 
> Question: I see you did a heck of a lot of 'prepping & scrubbing' & yet you got some minor IR & were concerned enough to get rid of your TV?
> 
> Was the thought that the IR was semi permanent or what?



I understand your concern. Don’t let the amount of IR posts deter you from a new ST50 or ST60, they are great panels. Many Panasonic users have not experienced stubborn IR or at least have not noticed it during normal TV viewing. I would put AVSForum members is the vocal minority. My panel has over 700 hours and use it as I please w/o much IR worry. I did run slides, out of box, for two weeks nonstop. When I wasn’t running slides I watched only full screen content. My set is IFS calibrated and black bar IR is a non-issue. With the exception of Blu-Rays I only watch full screen content. I have had no IR visible with regular content. When I check with colored slides I have noticed IR from various games and notable channel logos like, History. Most of my IR has been noticeable on two darker grey slides. My IR has easily been removed by watching full screen content or running the Disney WOW pixel flipper, which I use overnight about twice a month. I also admit to be concerned about IR when I purchased my LCD several years back.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23332095
> 
> 
> I could swear I replied to this...
> 
> 
> So here is the situation, how can one REALLY be sure it's not burn-in? Also, an hour or two later, when the screen gets white or just about white in that area, i still see it clearly. This is really bumming me out and I only have a few days before i can return this, or i'm SOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't mind the wait if it definitely will go away, however, like i said, for sake of time, the wow disc will take a while to arrive, so not sure i have the time. Also, will i have to baby this thing and be "careful" forever or the life of this tv? i eventually would like to be able to watch this tv like a tv. i want to be able to not worry about the letterboxing burn in or static logo burn-in. Stubborn IR is one thing, but will it take longer to get rid of or if by unfortunate chance i should get the same thing with the CN logo again, is there a better chance it will become burn-in? BTW, which LEd did you decide on?
> 
> 
> THanks for your input eric. much appreciated.



Bummer this has happened to your panel. If you have time, I would run the Disney pixel flipper over a night or two to see if that helps. I can understand why you’d want to switch to a LCD. I maintained an all LCD household until my son was out of the house.


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23336675
> 
> 
> Just read with interest your comments above as I am debating about getting a Panny ST50 vs ST60 & recall my old Sammy plasma break-in I did 4 years ago:
> 
> 
> 200 hours in low brightness/contrast setting of CN zoomed-in.
> 
> 
> Except for the occasional 20-30 secs of IR, It turned out great for the 4 years I owned it.
> 
> 
> Question: I see you did a heck of a lot of 'prepping & scrubbing' & yet you got some minor IR & were concerned enough to get rid of your TV?
> 
> Was the thought that the IR was semi permanent or what?



I broke in my 800U the same way you did and IR has been a non-issue and it still is a great plasma. Initially I had some similar IR concerns (there's some very old posts on here about it) but once I learned that the IR I was seeing on the 800U was very minor I quickly got over it and just started using the 800U as I normally would with no problems.


Flash forward to my purchasing the ST50 and I was surprised by the severity of the IR (I've actually never had IR that distinctly visible before) considering how much longer than normal I broke in the HDTV so I went online and the first thing I read was the CNET's IR story. I again panicked and decided spur of the moment that I didn't want to chance ruining such a beautiful picture by playing games for too long and put the ST50 up for sale. I have since come (mostly) to my senses and have closed the for sale ad and am going to keep the ST50.


One of the things that helped is that I remembered how much NCAA March Madness (especially during the first round) I watched and how I hadn't noticed any visible IR from all the static logos afterwards. I also have played multiple 2 hour sessions of Gears of War Judgement (interspersed with other content) and haven't noticed any severe IR like the CN logo. And of course having the CN logo disappear after the overnight running of Adult Swim helped too.


If you watch a lot of movies and are less interested in gaming and cable/satellite HDTV, the ST50 is a easy recommendation. After Chad B.'s calibration, the PQ of the ST50 blows my old 800U out of the water and I hear the ST60 is supposed to be even better. Even if you do play games, I tend to agree with Cuda that while there are definitely bad panels, I think the majority of owners are extremely happy with their ST50s. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23338498
> 
> 
> b
> 
> If you watch a lot of movies and *are less interested in gaming and cable/satellite HDTV*, the ST50 is a easy recommendation. After Chad B.'s calibration, the PQ of the ST50 blows my old 800U out of the water and I hear the ST60 is supposed to be even better. Even if you do play games, I tend to agree with Cuda that while there are definitely bad panels, I think the majority of owners are extremely happy with their ST50s. Just my 2 cents.



Thank you for the detailed feedback.


I don't game but I do watch movies & regular cable TV.

Though the future ST50 or ST60 will be the entertainment hub of our house, it still will be secondary after the LED in the kitchen ie after dinner TV.If you get what I mean.


Yet I am still concern at your comment in bold above.


Is that solely because of the logos on the cable stations?

I would think that unless I am watching 24/7 CNN breaking news, that a couple of hours of regular watching mixed with channel flipping wouldn't cause any temporary IR true?


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23337133
> 
> 
> I understand your concern. Don’t let the amount of IR posts deter you from a new ST50 or ST60, they are great panels. Many Panasonic users have not experienced stubborn IR or at least have not noticed it during normal TV viewing. *I would put AVSForum members is the vocal minority.* My panel has over 700 hours and use it as I please w/o much IR worry. I did run slides, out of box, for two weeks nonstop. When I wasn’t running slides I watched only full screen content. My set is IFS calibrated and black bar IR is a non-issue. With the exception of Blu-Rays I only watch full screen content. I have had no IR visible with regular content. When I check with colored slides I have noticed IR from various games and notable channel logos like, History. Most of my IR has been noticeable on two darker grey slides. My IR has easily been removed by watching full screen content or running the Disney WOW pixel flipper, which I use overnight about twice a month. I also admit to be concerned about IR when I purchased my LCD several years back.



Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.

It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.


My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.

However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.


I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.

What was your break-in process consist of?


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23339498
> 
> 
> Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.
> 
> It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.
> 
> 
> My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.
> 
> However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.
> 
> 
> I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.
> 
> What was your break-in process consist of?


How you break in the panel will not effect if the TV gets IR or not. You can run slides for 1,000 hours and still get IR when you are done.


The Disney pixel flipper is something you would run to remove stubborn IR once it is present. It basically looks like static that is being run on the screen which cycles through all colors really fast.


I also believe Sammy panels handle IR better then Panasonic from what I have heard.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23339524
> 
> 
> I also believe Sammy panels handle IR better then Panasonic from what I have heard.



I believe that 2013 Panasonic plamas have improved in that regard, not sure if Samsung did also..


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23339498
> 
> 
> Thank you for your comments & allaying my fears.
> 
> It appears the hypochondriac in all of us videophiles even wannabe ones like me - do come out way too much. LOL.
> 
> 
> My last Plasma was purchased in 2007 & as I posted earlier, I ran CN for 200 hours in low brightness/contrast settings & max zoomed to eliminate the CN logo & really the effort was worth it in the 5 years I owned that Sammy plasma.
> 
> However, better break-in techniques may have come on the scene since then.
> 
> 
> I see references to the Disney WOW pixel flipper amongst other things.
> 
> What was your break-in process consist of?



I agree with eric3316. Panel break-in does not affect IR resistance. That said, I wouldn’t abuse any new panel for the first 200hrs or so. I ran my panel for two weeks straight out of the box w/o ever shutting it off. I only watched full screen content and when I wasn’t watching TV, I was running color slides. My reasons for this were; 1) To check for defects within the warranty period and 2) I was planning on having the panel ISF calibrated, which I did around 400hrs or so.


I still get IR but don’t consider it a problem as it is not visible during my normal day to day usage. I can only see it when I am purposely checking for it with color slides. Even then, running the pixel flipper clears it up. It seems certain panels are prone to IR but I don’t think it is as widespread as this forum would lead you to believe.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23339811
> 
> 
> I believe that 2013 Panasonic plamas have improved in that regard, not sure if Samsung did also..


From my personal experience with an ST60 I would have to disagree. Seemed to even get worse the more I used it.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23340143
> 
> 
> From my personal experience with an ST60 I would have to disagree. Seemed to even get worse the more I used it.



Really eh, well I hope mine doesn't start to act up


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23339487
> 
> 
> Is that solely because of the logos on the cable stations?
> 
> I would think that unless I am watching 24/7 CNN breaking news, that a couple of hours of regular watching mixed with channel flipping wouldn't cause any temporary IR true?



I would say so. Mixing up content is exactly what you should be doing. Honestly, I I think you will be very happy with either the ST50 or ST60 although I will mention that I have also heard that the Samsung panels like the Samsung PNE6500 seem to do better with image retention.


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23341781
> 
> 
> I would say so. Mixing up content is exactly what you should be doing. Honestly, I I think you will be very happy with either the ST50 or ST60 although I will mention that I have also heard that the Samsung panels like the Samsung PNE6500 seem to do better with image retention.



It's funny, I still have a soft spot for the Sammy plasmas - based on my mostly positive experience.

& it wasn't a top of the line set either back in the day plus even had a class action suit pinned against it for bad panels.

But it always had a great picture & never let me down.


Thanks again for your comments, I will look a bit more into the Sammys.


----------



## MonicaJae

Well, i just put on a white screen and have to say that although the logo seems to have faded a _bit_ literally, it is still there. I notice it and see it, my kids think its better, but...


----------



## TheSchlaf

I'm going to ask a dumb question. Are 2.35:1 widescreen movies considered full screen content as far as being safe to use for the first 100 hours of break-in or by full screen do they mean 1.78:1 content only?


----------



## MonicaJae

My bluray player doesn't have a repeat function, if I plan on getting the WOW disc, will that be an issue?


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23342400
> 
> 
> My bluray player doesn't have a repeat function, if I plan on getting the WOW disc, will that be an issue?



If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when running Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/1380#post_23310815
> 
> 
> The problem with the Disney Pixel Flipper is the players. The newer ones like to turn off after a period of inactivity, which includes playing that Java app. For example, the Sony S5100 shuts off after 45 minutes or so. If you can connect a PC, there is Jscreenfix, but the normal version likes to blink 0:00 after 20 minutes in the bottom right corner, and I see no way to disable that behavior. OTOH, the screensaver version doesn't do that, and it's free to boot. But can you believe it, neither one of them hides the mouse while running! Fortunately, that can be fixed in various ways. The simplest is to move the cursor to the bottom left corner, but that still leaves the tip visible. To actually hide it, I use Autohotkey. If you have that program, search its Help file for "SystemCursor". You should find some sample script that binds a mouse visibility toggle to Win+C. It works perfectly. So, after installing Jscreenfix screensaver version, adding the mouse toggler to my main AHK startup script, setting the screensaver timer to 1 minute when I want flip pixels, and using Win+C to hide the mouse, I have a Pixel Flipper equivalent I can leave running overnight. When I don't want to use it, I use Win+C again to show the mouse, and I turn the screensaver back off. (It's on my gaming PC, and normally it's off as I never leave it unattended while using it.) The things we do for our plasmas.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23342519
> 
> 
> If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when rnning Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.



yeah, not sure i want to spend 30 bucks right now for this... is there a cheaper or free alternative?


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4200#post_23312620
> 
> 
> Breaking it in has no effect on IR. Even discussed at the HDTV shootout and confirmed by the experts. You can run slides for 500 hours, it does not mean you will not get IR.



So what the use of break-in then? waste of time?


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23343672
> 
> 
> So what the use of break-in then? waste of time?



No, its to age the panel, colors change the more hours you put on it, especially for the first few hundred hours. That's why you shouldn't get a plasma display professionally calibrated until you've 'aged it properly.


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23343734
> 
> 
> No, its to age the panel, colors change the more hours you put on it, especially for the first few hundred hours. That's why you shouldn't get a plasma display professionally calibrated until you've 'aged it properly.



So bad plasma IR is essentially the bad luck of the draw then I would imagine.


It's almost like exercising doesn't help you stop a heart attack.

Just has other benefits...


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23343126
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23342519
> 
> 
> If you're talking about Pixel Flipper, repeat won't help you as it is a Java program, not video. Newer players like the Sony S5100 automatically shut off after 30 minutes or so inactivity when rnning Pixel Flipper. If you have such a player, or even if you don't, and you can hook up a PC, there is a better, free way I wrote about in another forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, not sure i want to spend 30 bucks right now for this... is there a cheaper or free alternative?
Click to expand...


Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?


----------



## Jarrycanada

the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. or you could also download a cartoon that you know is in 1080P and is logo free and loop that. but really if you want the best way to repair your screen the wow disc is it. I broke and spent the money on a low cast LG bluray player and a copy of wow disc from amazon. never looked back. it's well worth the money to have this disc, because it cleans up the image so well and it's even. it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that. I also have burn-in from my cable box, SHAW) CABLE LOGO. I want to make sure if someone types Shaw 3400 PVR into Google they find this and maybe just maybe Shaw will fix it. I have contacted them on the matter but feel it landed on deaf ears..


the wow disc makes my plasma tv look better even after a very short time, the picture has got a lot less IR on it now and looks almost normal again. the logo is looking a bit faded but clearly still there.


I would buy the disc and get on with your life. that or sell the tv, what ever works best for you. problem with selling the tv, is there is a lot of them already on the market for sell. so Good luck.. btw test the disc first before you run it over night. run it for a hour,look at the picture see if it's ok, then what i would do is run the disc with the tv turned off, next day check to see if the player is still playing the disc and not running a screen saver. now you know if your player will work alright. I keep my wow disc playing in the background and on during the day when I am around. I don't leave it on over night. but I have run it for 12 or so hours so far. like i said it does look better.


BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.


MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too.


I found out the hard way, you need to make sure picture mode is set to full screen mode2. You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23344645
> 
> 
> Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?



For the option "To enable the repair modes to function for over 20 minutes per session you must purchase a licence."

Isn't that the idea for the fix in the first place?


Also, the free option only seems to be for stuck pixels, which just seems to me, by way of syntax at least, to be the incorrect solution. The site has a totally different 'fix' for IR. Or do i need to brush up on my English?


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346167
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23344645
> 
> 
> Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the option "To enable the repair modes to function for over 20 minutes per session you must purchase a licence."
> 
> Isn't that the idea for the fix in the first place?
> 
> 
> Also, the free option only seems to be for stuck pixels, which just seems to me, by way of syntax at least, to be the incorrect solution. The site has a totally different 'fix' for IR. Or do i need to brush up on my English?
Click to expand...


Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23345243
> 
> 
> the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. or you could also download a cartoon that you know is in 1080P and is logo free and loop that. but really if you want the best way to repair your screen the wow disc is it. I broke and spent the money on a low cast LG bluray player and a copy of wow disc from amazon. never looked back. it's well worth the money to have this disc, because it cleans up the image so well and it's even. it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that. I also have burn-in from my cable box, SHAW) CABLE LOGO. I want to make sure if someone types Shaw 3400 PVR into Google they find this and maybe just maybe Shaw will fix it. I have contacted them on the matter but feel it landed on deaf ears..
> 
> 
> the wow disc makes my plasma tv look better even after a very short time, the picture has got a lot less IR on it now and looks almost normal again. the logo is looking a bit faded but clearly still there.
> 
> 
> I would buy the disc and get on with your life. that or sell the tv, what ever works best for you. problem with selling the tv, is there is a lot of them already on the market for sell. so Good luck.. btw test the disc first before you run it over night. run it for a hour,look at the picture see if it's ok, then what i would do is run the disc with the tv turned off, next day check to see if the player is still playing the disc and not running a screen saver. now you know if your player will work alright. I keep my wow disc playing in the background and on during the day when I am around. I don't leave it on over night. but I have run it for 12 or so hours so far. like i said it does look better.
> 
> 
> BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.
> 
> 
> MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too.
> 
> 
> I found out the hard way, you need to make sure picture mode is set to full screen mode2. You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off.



Yeah, about the " run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player" part, i think you need to check yourself with that. My blu-ray player, not DVD player, does NOT run forever. Actually, It is a Sony and will run for the length of the title or chapter you choose, but not loop nor repeat nor "other".


And I don't think I need someone to tell me that I may need to sell my TV. I think I'm well aware of my options, being the adult i am. dunno, just sayin. And although that is an option, I never really thought about it as a viable one. That little ditty right there just straight confused me. I think that being the practical consumer i believe myself to be, i try to exhaust at least most possibilities that i can. and the comment "I would buy the disc and get on with your life." Really? if you don't like reading about my burn-in/ir posts in a thread devoted succinctly to those very issues, i think you should get off this forum and get on with your life.


"BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc and not the dvd version because it's a program. I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats.


MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player. I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it. if it doesn't well your in luck your living in a age of less then 100 dollar bluray players, enjoy your new player..LOL just make sure screen saver mode is off, on everything, plus VIERA Link if it has it, that turns the tv remote into the bluray remote. turn that off too. " ok a couple of things here, shall i break it down for you? yeah, why not:


"BTW the Pixel Flipper is only on the bluray editon of the wow disc" alright stop right there. Isn't that essentially the one I want? and to repeat ad nauseum: I OWN A BLURAY PLAYER.


Ok, so wait a tick, if the PF is a PROGRAM, why is it bluray specific? didn't know bluray players ran applications? cool where is that button on my remote or menu choice? (sony bd player)

"MonicaJae. the Pixel Flipper will run forever as long as you don't touch the dvd player" lather, rinse, repeat

" I learned that the hard way and now own it on both formats." well, just cuz you're an idiot, don't assume everyone else is.

" I am not sure what other people are talking about it timing out as it's written to run as long as you leave it" anyone else wanna touch this or are you gonna leave ALL the dirty work for me?


" You'll notice if the image has wavy lines in it that your screen is in the wrong aspect ratio, there is a good test for this on the disc that explains it better then I can here. some times it's called overscan mode, you want that off" i do know a little about aspect ratios. besides, i think the average layman is pretty used to the idea of AR by now 'in this day and age' kinda a no brainer thing. My ex, also a member of this forum is a videophile, yet, don't really want to have to name names unless i really must feel it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY go that route. I never claimed to be a total noob in relation to this subject at all, that said, I am almost surely the noobiest noob when it comes to plasmas. That is a fact.


"the free way is to download the slides, you place them on a usb drive and run it. " So glad to have you around to clear that up for me. You keepin up with this? feel free to read my previous posts. i think i mention the use of running slides, etc, in most of them. Maybe you are on to something? moving on...

" it didn't solve all of my problems yet as i still have the dirty screen effect on the right side of the screen, most people have that." sorry, can you point out whom? i'm not on these forums all the time, so if you could just give me an idea, that would be awesome. I don't think i have dirty screen effect.


Well, i think i could go on. However i have children to attend to. and now i'm getting bored. oh, i will consider those who have suggested the WOW disc. including you







it does seem the route one should take. is one better than the other? bd vs dvd? or would either format work and if so, then i can just run it from the lappy. yeah, i have been aware of the ability to hook one's laptop up to a monitor/screen for over 15 years.


honestly, after reading your reply to my post, i think you have WAY more issues with your PDP than I have with mine. Thanks for your input, tho. much appreciated.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346292
> 
> 
> Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.



yes i recall reading that on the site. JScreenfix is stuck pixel specific. JScreenfix Deluxe is what the site recommends for IR. the Special Edition is for...what? also, citing the site:


"Dark patches on an LCD or plasma screen are the result of image persistence. Image persistence (sometimes known as burn-in) occurs if an area of the screen does not change for a long period of time. TV channel logos, for example, often leave such marks on the screen." apparently they didn't know that IP/IR is not the same as BI? i feel comfortable, noob or not, mentioning that. and i do understand what you convey with the "free" option. however i don't think it's appropriate for my situation. but that's my opinion based upon what i've been learning. But, i could be wrong.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23344236
> 
> 
> So bad plasma IR is essentially the bad luck of the draw then I would imagine.
> 
> 
> It's almost like exercising doesn't help you stop a heart attack.
> 
> Just has other benefits...



+1


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346351
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346292
> 
> 
> Like I said, "the screensaver version ... is free to boot". I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to. I wouldn't have described it as "a Pixel Flipper equivalent" if it wasn't exactly that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes i recall reading that on the site. JScreenfix is stuck pixel specific. JScreenfix Deluxe is what the site recommends for IR. the Special Edition is for...what? also, citing the site:
> 
> 
> "Dark patches on an LCD or plasma screen are the result of image persistence. Image persistence (sometimes known as burn-in) occurs if an area of the screen does not change for a long period of time. TV channel logos, for example, often leave such marks on the screen." apparently they didn't know that IP/IR is not the same as BI? i feel comfortable, noob or not, mentioning that. and i do understand what you convey with the "free" option. however i don't think it's appropriate for my situation. but that's my opinion based upon what i've been learning. But, i could be wrong.
Click to expand...


What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346366
> 
> 
> What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.



Mmm Okay


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23344645
> 
> 
> Does the "better, free way" I wrote about in my message count?



What is the "link" for your original post in another thread? Thanks.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23346366
> 
> 
> What I told you was accurate and very specific. Try it or not.



Fwiw, I could not find the screens saver version either. I ran into the same license issue so I just lost interest. I think things may have changed since you did it. Or very possibly I didn't understand how to achieve your findings..


----------



## sawfish

Type jscreenfix into google. The first hit is:

http://www.jscreenfix.com/ 


At the bottom of that page:


Special Edition

JScreenFix Windows Screensaver Edition *Free


Click on that link and it takes to a page where you can download it.


This is as straightforward as the Internet gets, and everything is exactly as I said it was then and now.


ETA: Heck, googling /jscreenfix screensaver/ returns its download page as the first hit.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23348284
> 
> 
> Type jscreenfix into google. The first hit is:
> 
> http://www.jscreenfix.com/
> 
> 
> At the bottom of that page:
> 
> 
> Special Edition
> 
> JScreenFix Windows Screensaver Edition *Free
> 
> 
> Click on that link and it takes to a page where you can download it.
> 
> 
> This is as straightforward as the Internet gets, and everything is exactly as I said it was then and now.
> 
> 
> ETA: Heck, googling /jscreenfix screensaver/ returns its download page as the first hit.



Sorry, I realize this subject is being beaten to death, but I read in one of your posts above: "I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to.", I did NOT know it pertained to JScreenFix, I am aware of that, but have no means to connect a laptop to use this Java based app. I thought there may be something I can place on a USB memory stick and play that on my VT50 if and when needed. I have colored slides, and some other "Pixel Jogger" files found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer 


I guess at some point I'll get the WOW disk, but just purchased the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition BlueRay disk, which if one is not having IR problems is more valuable and worth it. Again, sorry, but I thought you had some other "Pixel Flipper" files that might work on a USB stick. Thanks.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23348393
> 
> 
> Sorry, I realize this subject is being beaten to death, but I read in one of your posts above: "I explained exactly how to put together a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free that will run as long as you want it to.", I did NOT know it pertained to JScreenFix, I am aware of that, but have no means to connect a laptop to use this Java based app.



My first post spelled it out, starting with "If you can connect a PC" and then went on to talk about the Jscreenfix screensaver, using Autohotkey to hide the mouse, etc.


> Quote:
> I thought there may be something I can place on a USB memory stick and play that on my VT50 if and when needed. I have colored slides, and some other "Pixel Jogger" files found here:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer
> 
> 
> I guess at some point I'll get the WOW disk, but just purchased the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition BlueRay disk, which if one is not having IR problems is more valuable and worth it. Again, sorry, but I thought you had some other "Pixel Flipper" files that might work on a USB stick. Thanks.



Sorry, but I haven't talked about that at all.







If you want to play files from a USB stick, running slides is probably as good as anything. My ST60's Screen Wipe will run forever, but it uses about 100W more than Jscreenfix (I run the latter in Home Theater mode at defaults - Contrast 100) and is more annoying to leave on if you're in the same room with it and have to see it. It's visually more distracting, and it buzzes more loudly.


As for the Disney Pixel Flipper, my main motivation for finding an alternative was the fact that my BD player shuts off while running it after 30-45 minutes or so. Secondary is the fact that to use it, one has to insert the disc and wait for it load every damn time, and then navigate the menus to activate the Pixel Flipper. Leaving the disc in is not an option because I want to use the player as a streamer probably more than I use it for BD, and the new players (Sony S5100 and Samsung F5900) are all ridiculously loud (x 6 samples - they love their constant high-pitched whining, and Samsung has found a way to simulate outside insect noise) and like to spin the disc up when turned on, and the Sony likes to keep it spinning indefinitely even when not playing it. All these problems go away with the PC method.


----------



## Mactavish

Thanks "sawfish" for the followup. Seems someone could make a buck or two, simply making some kind of Pixel Flipper video for a USB stick, on the VT50 one is able to allow "repeat" so you can run video or slides on a stick as long as you want. Then again, I have no idea how difficult it would be to port a Java app like the one found on the WOW disk to an actual video file. I'm certainly NOT impressed with the video files I linked to earlier called 'Pixel Jogger", they seem to function better when loading in QuickTime on my computer, then from what I can see on my display running the video from the USB stick. Oh well........


----------



## RetroGiant

I will be using the WoW pixel flipper using the ps3, that won't randomly shut off will it?


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23349100
> 
> 
> I will be using the WoW pixel flipper using the ps3, that won't randomly shut off will it?


I used the PS3 without a problem overnight.


Anything can randomly shut off though.


----------



## Heywould

That proves that I didn't try hard enough I guess to find it.. It was only a quick look at the page and obviously I missed it..


----------



## MonicaJae

i realised i could probably run the disney pixel flipper bd on PowerDVD on repeat. i haven't used it in a while, but if I remember correctly one does have that option. or i'll just boot into my linux part and run it from a player within that. either way all is not lost


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23348782
> 
> 
> Thanks "sawfish" for the followup. Seems someone could make a buck or two, simply making some kind of Pixel Flipper video for a USB stick, on the VT50 one is able to allow "repeat" so you can run video or slides on a stick as long as you want. Then again, I have no idea how difficult it would be to port a Java app like the one found on the WOW disk to an actual video file. I'm certainly NOT impressed with the video files I linked to earlier called 'Pixel Jogger", they seem to function better when loading in QuickTime on my computer, then from what I can see on my display running the video from the USB stick. Oh well........



any pc or mac should run any java app "*.jar" if Java is installed. it is free. if you play the pc version of Minecraft, that's essentially what one does. minecraft.exe calls the minecraft.jar function. not sure if one would need the "autohotkey" program to hide the cursor for the wow pixel flipper. It's [autohotkey] basically an opensource macro to re- assign or re-"map" the keys on your keyboard to perform a specific function. I.e., what sawfish says about the win+c keys to be programmed to hide the cursor when these keys are pressed together simultaneously.


not sure if mentioned before hand, but the autohotkey program is available free for download.


----------



## SkiFor3

I have a panny ut50. This is my second one. I took the first one back due to bad IR and wanted to try again to see if it was just a bad panel. I was real careful for the first 200 hours this time around without any IR. I have over 300 hours on it now and decided to just watch Tv the way were going to watch it. I noticed my daughter was watching Cartoon Network so decided to check for IR this is my finding:

 


My guess this was after 1-3 hours of watching CN.


I decided to run the pixel flipper on the WOW BD overnight. This cleaned it up pretty nicely


The last two nights I have watched the Royals games starting about the 7th inning each night so maybe 3 hours of game time. Here is my present screen:
 


I'm glad the pixel flipper cleans it up but not sure i want the hassle.


----------



## CheYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkiFor3*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23350311
> 
> 
> I have a panny ut50. This is my second one. I took the first one back due to bad IR and wanted to try again to see if it was just a bad panel. I was real careful for the first 200 hours this time around without any IR. I have over 300 hours on it now and decided to just watch Tv the way were going to watch it. I noticed my daughter was watching Cartoon Network so decided to check for IR this is my finding:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess this was after 1-3 hours of watching CN.
> 
> 
> I decided to run the pixel flipper on the WOW BD overnight. This cleaned it up pretty nicely
> 
> 
> The last two nights I have watched the Royals games starting about the 7th inning each night so maybe 3 hours of game time. Here is my present screen:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad the pixel flipper cleans it up but not sure i want the hassle.



I'm an avid baseball watcher, I get the YES scoreboard logo IR on my screen frequently, I run the pixel flipper once a week just to wash it off once in a while.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CheYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23350808
> 
> 
> I'm an avid baseball watcher, I get the YES scoreboard logo IR on my screen frequently, I run the pixel flipper once a week just to wash it off once in a while.



Wow, how long have you been rolling that routine? Glad to hear that it isn't BI. Mine was about the same after CN was on for a couple hours. It's basically gone now. This is after a few days of watching regular full screen or zoomed content. How is your panel after watching letterboxed content if you have experience in that area?


----------



## CheYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23350813
> 
> 
> Wow, how long have you been rolling that routine? Glad to hear that it isn't BI. Mine was about the same after CN was on for a couple hours. It's basically gone now. This is after a few days of watching regular full screen or zoomed content. How is your panel after watching letterboxed content if you have experience in that area?



For a few weeks now I've been doing it. My panel is fine after I watch a letterboxed movie, I really only notice the IR on bright white or otherwise high colored logos like baseball scoreboxes that are always present during a game, or logos from like A&E and the likes.When I turn my PS3 on, the icons will leave a few seconds of IR as well. It's definitely annoying, but I've learned to live with it as a plasma owner. Personally, I think some people may be lying to themselves when they say that get absolutely no IR on their ST panels, I've seen more than a few that will exhibit it for at least a little while after watching a nice bright logo or baseball game.


----------



## Jarrycanada

if you don't mind me asking CheYC what are your Brightness and Contrast levels at. what mode are you watching your tv in, like is it custom? I watch A&E all the times never have it IR yet, but I do agree most of the troubles I've had are with white logos not being transparent. I noticed the E channel has a really nasty logo, no transparency at all.


----------



## CheYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jarrycanada*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23364636
> 
> 
> if you don't mind me asking CheYC what are your Brightness and Contrast levels at. what mode are you watching your tv in, like is it custom? I watch A&E all the times never have it IR yet, but I do agree most of the troubles I've had are with white logos not being transparent. I noticed the E channel has a really nasty logo, no transparency at all.



Brightness is 52, contrast is 84 (I'll bump it up to about 90 sometimes during the day, which isn't too often). I watch in Custom mode with settings I obtained by calibrating my set with an iD3. Sometimes A&E will show a light blue logo, which doesn't leave IR for me, and other times, it will be a bright white logo, which will leave IR. Baseball is certainly the worst for me as I watch it every night for ~3 hours or so and the scoreboxes are always on screen during the game.


----------



## Jarrycanada

I am just trying to see if I we are doing something wrong here as you most likely know already as you read this forum. too high of a contrast level and brightness can lead to IR. I have my tv set at contrast 63 brightness 75. and that's with blinds in the basement to keep the sun out. I find if i set the brightness too low the black levels are gone and If I set the contrast too higher then 65 some channels are super white. it's like looking at a light bulbs at times. It's strange this Panasonic ut50, channels are too bright. I use the Custom mode. I did have contrast at 65 but turned it down because of this. screen is set to fullscreen1 not 2 for everything other then the bluray player for the wow disc to work.. so I have over scan on for tv watching. I've heard this is sorta important for the pixel orbiter to work right but some people have said that it doesn't work on logos that are a fixed size.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4230#post_23340143
> 
> 
> From my personal experience with an ST60 I would have to disagree. Seemed to even get worse the more I used it.



In my opinion, the long-term ST60 IR issues are still tbd. I know from reading this forum, that some experienced a period of persistent IR when their ST50 was new, only to have the panel settle down after a while. It would be interesting to find out what the long-term IR reports are on the ST60 after a few thousand hours of usage.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CheYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23350808
> 
> 
> I'm an avid baseball watcher, I get the YES scoreboard logo IR on my screen frequently, I run the pixel flipper once a week just to wash it off once in a while.



This routine sounds like a pain, but is really not a big issue. I use roughly the same routine and also run the pixel flipper after any big gaming sessions.


----------



## RedZeppelin

I'm a first time plasma owner and this thread has scared the bejesus out of me.


I picked up a Samsung PN51F5300 for my new HT room and I'm blown away by the PQ, but I'm too scared to use it for anything but full screen material. My daughter wanted to watch Star Wars in our new HT but I'm afraid to watch a 2.35:1 movie this early in the TV's life because the pixels would age unevenly. That is messed up. I even adjusted the zoom on my set to 16:9 instead of the proper "Screen fit" when watching a 1.85:1 movie yesterday because there was a _tiny_ black frame around the picture when displayed 1:1.


My HT room is very dark and I calibrated the set accordingly, so I'm hoping that will lessen the chances of IR. I have the TV in Movie mode with contrast at about 80 and brightness around 40 or so.


I don't use the plasma for gaming, but I do own a lot of 2.35:1 movies, and that has me worried.


I have the Disney WOW disc so I may try to use the pixel flipper now and then when I'm not in the room to try to put some additional hours on the set. Whether it's necessary or not it will give me some additional peace of mind.


----------



## connmen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371398
> 
> 
> I'm a first time plasma owner and this thread has scared the bejesus out of me.
> 
> 
> I picked up a Samsung PN51F5300 for my new HT room and I'm blown away by the PQ, but I'm too scared to use it for anything but full screen material. My daughter wanted to watch Star Wars in our new HT but I'm afraid to watch a 2.35:1 movie this early in the TV's life because the pixels would age unevenly. That is messed up. I even adjusted the zoom on my set to 16:9 instead of the proper "Screen fit" when watching a 1.85:1 movie yesterday because there was a _tiny_ black frame around the picture when displayed 1:1.
> 
> 
> My HT room is very dark and I calibrated the set accordingly, so I'm hoping that will lessen the chances of IR. I have the TV in Movie mode with contrast at about 80 and brightness around 40 or so.
> 
> 
> I don't use the plasma for gaming, but I do own a lot of 2.35:1 movies, and that has me worried.
> 
> 
> I have the Disney WOW disc so I may try to use the pixel flipper now and then when I'm not in the room to try to put some additional hours on the set. Whether it's necessary or not it will give me some additional peace of mind.



If there is any advice I would give you, it is that for the first 100 or so hours, dial back the contrast to 50 or 60. The PQ in a dark room at 50 or 60 contrast will still be leagues better than LED/LCD. The higher intensity the contrast and brightness, the more chance of IR. (Burn-in is not going to happen watching something for a few hours). Above all enjoy the TV.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *connmen*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371547
> 
> 
> If there is any advice I would give you, it is that for the first 100 or so hours, dial back the contrast to 50 or 60. The PQ in a dark room at 50 or 60 contrast will still be leagues better than LED/LCD. The higher intensity the contrast and brightness, the more chance of IR. (Burn-in is not going to happen watching something for a few hours). Above all enjoy the TV.


So an average Joe walks into a store and buys a plasma TV. He gets it home, plugs it in and starts watching the TV like it was meant to be. Doesn't touch any settings or do anything crazy. He just enjoys the TV. The TV does not come with any instructional manual on how to watch the TV, what needs to be done for the first 100 hours or any crazy break in manual. This average Joe is able to just enjoy his new TV and when he is not watching it he doesn't even think about it. Not a care in the world about his new TV.


Why can't we just do that? lol


If I get another plasma TV in the future that is exactly what I will do. I will plug it in and just watch the freakin thing with any settings that look good because that is what most people do with their TV and they probably have no problems with them at all. Instead I got an ST60, stressed about everything, ran the slides for over 100 hours, no wide screen movies and did not leave anything on the screen for to long. Still got IR and wasted a bunch of time prepping for nothing and running a pixel flipper over night for days. Said the heck with it and got an LED.


Next plasma I would not go through this junk. Put the thing on and watch it! Just stay away from black bars for a little bit but even if you watch black bars, they will eventually break in and catch up. Plasma makers sell these TV to the masses and these break-in instructions do not come with the TV. If it was required then a booklet would be packaged with each TV telling you what needs to be done, just like food comes with instructions on how to cook it!


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4250_50#post_23371626
> 
> 
> So an average Joe walks into a store and buys a plasma TV. He gets it home, plugs it in and starts watching the TV like it was meant to be. Doesn't touch any settings or do anything crazy. He just enjoys the TV. The TV does not come with any instructional manual on how to watch the TV, what needs to be done for the first 100 hours or any crazy break in manual. This average Joe is able to just enjoy his new TV and when he is not watching it he doesn't even think about it. Not a care in the world about his new TV.
> 
> 
> Why can't we just do that? lol



That's what I did when I bought my Pan 60, 6 weeks ago.....but I explained the possible IR issue to my wife and kids, kids were fine with it but my wife just laughed at me and asked me why we spent close to $2k for a TV which she can't "just watch like a normal TV", so I had to explain the picture quality between a Plasma we have (which she agrees with) and the not so great quality on LCD TV's which some of our friends and family has but she still will not buy my explanation!


Well........ 6 weeks and 350 hours later, there is a nice ESPN and MTV2 logo nicely branded in the bottom right corner which can be viewed while TV picture is white or light grey, so yeah, so long so being an average Joe!


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371669
> 
> 
> That's what I did when I bought my Pan 60, 6 weeks ago.....but I explained the possible IR issue to my wife and kids, kids were fine with it but my wife just laughed at me and asked me why we spent close to $2k for a TV which she can't "just watch like a normal TV", so I had to explain the picture quality between a Plasma we have (which she agrees with) and the not so great quality on LCD TV's which some of our friends and family has but she still will not buy my explanation!
> 
> 
> Well........ 6 weeks and 350 hours later, there is a nice ESPN and MTV2 logo nicely branded in the bottom right corner which can be viewed while TV picture is white or light grey, so yeah, so long so being an average Joe!


Well if you would have spent the time running slides you still would have gotten the same IR so you woundn't have avoided it anyway. It seems like it is the nature of the beast with the Panny's. Which Panny did you buy? I am convinced that Samsung's handle IR better and I am not buying it when people say we just got a bad panel because you can rwad back about all the past Panny models and it seems pretty consistant they have IR issues not matter what you do to avoid it.


The funny thing is, I did not see my first sign of IR on my ST60 till after racking up 200 hours on the TV.


Oh, and you are not an average Joe, you are an AVS member. lol


----------



## RetroGiant

The thing is, id rather have a little IR that is noticeable on "certain" scenes than all the issues associated with LCD/LED like clouding, uniformity, motion, etc that you notice much more on everyday content. Everything has a trade-off.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371734
> 
> 
> The thing is, id rather have a little IR that is noticeable on "certain" scenes than all the issues associated with LCD/LED like clouding, uniformity, motion, etc that you notice much more on everyday content. Everything has a trade-off.


I agree but at least you know what you are getting into up front with an LED and have time to decide if you want to return it. Also, some LED's are much better with motion and unformity issues then others.


Imagine if Plasma's were sold with all the different station's logo's already retained into the screen. How many people would keep it then. lol


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371692
> 
> 
> Well if you would have spent the time running slides you still would have gotten the same IR so you woundn't have avoided it anyway. It seems like it is the nature of the beast with the Panny's. Which Panny did you buy? I am convinced that Samsung's handle IR better and I am not buying it when people say we just got a bad panel because you can rwad back about all the past Panny models and it seems pretty consistant they have IR issues not matter what you do to avoid it.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is, I did not see my first sign of IR on my ST60 till after racking up 200 hours on the TV.
> 
> 
> Oh, and you are not an average Joe, you are an AVS member. lol



What's your explanation for folks that have no IR ? Have owned a 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2012 Panasonic and not one hint of IR ever.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371795
> 
> 
> What's your explanation for folks that have no IR ? Have owned a 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2012 Panasonic and not one hint of IR ever.


My explanation is I don't believe it. Not 1 hint of IR ever? There its probably something wrong with your TV's then.


----------



## chunon

Okay that's a reasonable explanation lol Nothing wrong with my current set or the previous ones I'm not saying I haven't ever seen a trace of image retention but it goes away within seconds and I have looked on slides for it it is just not there. So my explanation is a combination of panel variance and usage habits, the only thing I cant say with certainty is what the effect of gaming is have no experience there. But as far as logos it is just not an issue on my set, watch ESPN regularly and tons of other stations with logos with no issues and there are tons of forum members just like me, I don't discount the IR at all I just think it is not a given that all sets will have issues


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371692
> 
> 
> Well if you would have spent the time running slides you still would have gotten the same IR so you woundn't have avoided it anyway. It seems like it is the nature of the beast with the Panny's. Which Panny did you buy? I am convinced that Samsung's handle IR better and I am not buying it when people say we just got a bad panel because you can rwad back about all the past Panny models and it seems pretty consistant they have IR issues not matter what you do to avoid it.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is, I did not see my first sign of IR on my ST60 till after racking up 200 hours on the TV.
> 
> 
> Oh, and you are not an average Joe, you are an AVS member. lol



This forum can definitely make a member nervous. It seems the 2012 Pannys are certainly IR susceptible and so perhaps are the 2013 Pannys. Has anyone see any long-term IR reports on the 2012 Pannys. My panel has been much better as it has aged and professional calibration helped as well. A panel aged only 200hrs is brand new, imo. It would be interesting to know how these panels are performing with 2,000+ hours. I also read a few post that where members have indicated that IR became less of a problem as panels aged.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371856
> 
> 
> Okay that's a reasonable explanation lol Nothing wrong with my current set or the previous ones I'm not saying I haven't ever seen a trace of image retention but it goes away within seconds and I have looked on slides for it it is just not there. So my explanation is a combination of panel variance and usage habits, the only thing I cant say with certainty is what the effect of gaming is have no experience there. But as far as logos it is just not an issue on my set, watch ESPN regularly and tons of other stations with logos with no issues and there are tons of forum members just like me, I don't discount the IR at all I just think it is not a given that all sets will have issues



I would also agrue that if IR is only viewalbe when checking with color slides and not during normal usage, it is not a problem. A forum member, I forgot who, pointed out that many would not even know they had any hint of IR if it weren't for the widespread use of color slides by AVSforum members. I personally have stopped obsessing about it and just use my panel like any other set I own. I do run the WOW pixel flipper overnight every couple weeks as a precaution, so my panel OCD is not fully abated. ;>)


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23371913
> 
> 
> I would also agrue that if IR is only viewalbe when checking with color slides and not during normal usage, it is not a problem. A forum member, I forgot who, pointed out that many would not even know they had any hint of IR if it weren't for the widespread use of color slides by AVSforum members. I personally have stopped obsessing about it and just use my panel like any other set I own. I do run the WOW pixel flipper overnight every couple weeks as a precaution, so my panel OCD is not fully abated. ;>)



With you 100% the slides misused to the nth degree imo, have seen people freak out over uniformity issues they will never see in real world content, IR that they would never even know that was there and also running slides to get rid of IR which is not there intended purpose at all, I remember one Vt50 over that was so concerned he was turning his set off and on for hours seeing if he could see IR and then was worried he damaged it in some way totally ridiculous imo


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4250_50#post_23371692
> 
> 
> Which Panny did you buy? I am convinced that Samsung's handle IR better and I am not buying it when people say we just got a bad panel because you can rwad back about all the past Panny models and it seems pretty consistant they have IR issues not matter what you do to avoid it.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is, I did not see my first sign of IR on my ST60 till after racking up 200 hours on the TV.
> 
> 
> Oh, and you are not an average Joe, you are an AVS member. lol



I picked up the 2012 Panny TC-P60GT50 about 6 weeks ago. It was the last new in box set left in Best Buy, within the 10+ stores in my local area! IIRC the manufacturing date on this set was either Novermer or December 2012. I would have picked up a 2013 model but they did not come in to the stores yet and I did not want to wait, so I got a good dealer on the 2012 and I love it, the picture quality is insane!


Oh and thanks for the warm welcome, I suddently don't feel average anymore!


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4250_50#post_23372103
> 
> 
> With you 100% the slides misused to the nth degree imo, have seen people freak out over uniformity issues they will never see in real world content, IR that they would never even know that was there and also running slides to get rid of IR which is not there intended purpose at all,



Since I'm still a newbie, can you guys point me to the said slides? And maybe sum up their purpose? Are they intended to help adjust the screen colors, saturation, hue, tint, picture fitment, etc.? Or just to show off the color potential of a TV?


I also tried not to have OCD about the screen and only noticed the IR image of the ESPN when I was watching the movie Prometheus a couple of days ago, where all the lights were out in my family room and the screen had a person's head laying on a pure white table and the logo caught my eye, otherwise I would not noticed it. Problem is, once I know it's there, everytime I watch the TV, my eyes keep going to that spot in hopes the IR is gone, I know it's a mental thing now b/c I know it's there but I'm human, so it bothers me now!


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372266
> 
> 
> Since I'm still a newbie, can you guys point me to the said slides? And maybe sum up their purpose? Are they intended to help adjust the screen colors, saturation, hue, tint, picture fitment, etc.? Or just to show off the color potential of a TV?
> 
> 
> I also tried not to have OCD about the screen and only noticed the IR image of the ESPN when I was watching the movie Prometheus a couple of days ago, where all the lights were out in my family room and the screen had a person's head laying on a pure white table and the logo caught my eye, otherwise I would not noticed it. Problem is, once I know it's there, everytime I watch the TV, my eyes keep going to that spot in hopes the IR is gone, I know it's a mental thing now b/c I know it's there but I'm human, so it bothers me now!



The only legitmate purpose is to accumulate hours prior to calibrating imo, but that can be accomplished using varied content, they are really for use only in preparation for dnices calibration settings anything beyond that is either a placebo or some interpretation with no basis in fact


----------



## connmen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372266
> 
> 
> Since I'm still a newbie, can you guys point me to the said slides? And maybe sum up their purpose? Are they intended to help adjust the screen colors, saturation, hue, tint, picture fitment, etc.? Or just to show off the color potential of a TV?
> 
> 
> I also tried not to have OCD about the screen and only noticed the IR image of the ESPN when I was watching the movie Prometheus a couple of days ago, where all the lights were out in my family room and the screen had a person's head laying on a pure white table and the logo caught my eye, otherwise I would not noticed it. Problem is, once I know it's there, everytime I watch the TV, my eyes keep going to that spot in hopes the IR is gone, I know it's a mental thing now b/c I know it's there but I'm human, so it bothers me now!



Best thing you can do early on to avoid IR is to keep contrast low.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *connmen*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372883
> 
> 
> Best thing you can do early on to avoid IR is to keep contrast low.



Sound advice


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372266
> 
> 
> Since I'm still a newbie, can you guys point me to the said slides? And maybe sum up their purpose? Are they intended to help adjust the screen colors, saturation, hue, tint, picture fitment, etc.? Or just to show off the color potential of a TV?
> 
> 
> I also tried not to have OCD about the screen and only noticed the IR image of the ESPN when I was watching the movie Prometheus a couple of days ago, where all the lights were out in my family room and the screen had a person's head laying on a pure white table and the logo caught my eye, otherwise I would not noticed it. Problem is, once I know it's there, everytime I watch the TV, my eyes keep going to that spot in hopes the IR is gone, I know it's a mental thing now b/c I know it's there but I'm human, so it bothers me now!



Below is the link to the D-Nice thread that has a link to the color slides. If you want to use the slides, I recommend downloading to a thumb drive and running from your TV's menu.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1232441/the-official-2010-panasonic-settings-issues-thread 


I had planned on getting my panel professionally calibrated, which I did. So I used the slides on my panel right out of the box. In fact, I ran my panel 2 weeks w/o every shutting it down. Whenever I wasn't watching TV, the slides were running. My reasons for this; 1) To test for any issues within the return time frame and 2) My calibrator was coming within 3 weeks of my panel purchase.


----------



## ElectroMike

Thank you all for the added info and the link!


The only thing I did for the first 100+ hours is tried not to stay on the same channel with a logo more than 10-15 min clips, I tried to stay on the 1080HD channels so that the screen showed full view w/o black bars and I kept the setting on THX Movie defualt (which is the darker setting) vs the THX (day/ brighter view setting).


I have another question on IR vs permanent Burn-In damage. Does the permanent damage leave in imprint in a different color, other then white? And from past experiences how many hours would one have to stay on the same screen imprint to get burn-in image, vs a temp IR?


At the time I bought the TV, Best Buy offered their extended warranty (which I did not buy), they were explaining that their warranty would cover IR repair and if the IR turns into a burns in, they would replace the TV but I don't know how true that is and did not bother to ask the fine print on the contract but always wondered what "their" repair would involve, using a Disney WOW disc or something else, if something else I would think someone on this forum would have the answer!?


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372921
> 
> 
> Below is the link to the D-Nice thread that has a link to the color slides. If you want to use the slides, I recommend downloading to a thumb drive and running from your TV's menu.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1232441/the-official-2010-panasonic-settings-issues-thread
> 
> 
> I had planned on getting my panel professionally calibrated, which I did. So I used the slides on my panel right out of the box. In fact, I ran my panel 2 weeks w/o every shutting it down. Whenever I wasn't watching TV, the slides were running. My reasons for this; 1) To test for any issues within the return time frame and 2) My calibrator was coming within 3 weeks of my panel purchase.



I'm always quite surprised @ the calibration settings that is posted around here to see contrast set so high on a plasma.

As noted above, IR is ultimately caused by contrast being dialed up too high.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23373187
> 
> 
> I'm always quite surprised @ the calibration settings that is posted around here to see contrast set so high on a plasma.
> 
> As noted above, IR is ultimately caused by contrast being dialed up too high.



High contrast is usually not an issue after the set is broken in. For example my DAY ISF mode contrast is at 100 yet no IR


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23373417
> 
> 
> High contrast is usually not an issue after the set is broken in. For example my DAY ISF mode contrast is at 100 yet no IR




How was your set broken in? Just watching a variety of different programming or aging the phospors at the beginning?


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23374440
> 
> 
> How was your set broken in? Just watching a variety of different programming or aging the phospors at the beginning?



Just watched normal content with THX Cinema default settings pixel orbiter on, ran slides in the evening just to get to the required hours for calibration quicker. I tried a diy cal at about 80 hours no ill effects from some long calibration sessions either


----------



## RedZeppelin

I have a question about the various tools available and their functions. I've read this thread until my eyes crossed and want to make sure I understand all the (sometimes conflicting) information.


There seem to be three types of tools for plasma screens: 1) pixel flippers, 2) slides, and 3) scroll bars (built-in to the set).


There seem to be three different uses for those tools: 1) breaking in a new set, 2) repairing existing IR, 3) IR prevention by refreshing the screen after watching letterbox or static content.


Are all three tools interchangeable for those uses, or is each tool better at certain tasks? For example, I've seen people suggest running one of the tools for a few minutes after watching a 2.35:1 film to help wash out the black bars. Would one be better than the other for that? Is it even necessary unless you watch many such films in a row?


With my new set I'm sticking to full screen viewing for now and I've lowered my contrast to 50 as someone suggested earlier in this thread. But I'm anxious to start watching some of my 2.35:1 movies, so to speed up the aging I'm also running the slides now and then so I can reach the magic 100 hour "safe" mark faster. Once I reach that mark, however, I still want to be safe and mix up the content as much as possible, but after examining my BD and DVD collection I'm amazed at how much of it is 2.35:1. I abhor zoomed or stretched content, so I'm struggling to find 1.85:1 content to watch as I break in the set.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23375367
> 
> 
> I have a question about the various tools available and their functions. I've read this thread until my eyes crossed and want to make sure I understand all the (sometimes conflicting) information.
> 
> 
> There seem to be three types of tools for plasma screens: 1) pixel flippers, 2) slides, and 3) scroll bars (built-in to the set).
> 
> 
> There seem to be three different uses for those tools: 1) breaking in a new set, 2) repairing existing IR, 3) IR prevention by refreshing the screen after watching letterbox or static content.
> 
> 
> Are all three tools interchangeable for those uses, or is each tool better at certain tasks? For example, I've seen people suggest running one of the tools for a few minutes after watching a 2.35:1 film to help wash out the black bars. Would one be better than the other for that? Is it even necessary unless you watch many such films in a row?
> 
> 
> With my new set I'm sticking to full screen viewing for now and I've lowered my contrast to 50 as someone suggested earlier in this thread. But I'm anxious to start watching some of my 2.35:1 movies, so to speed up the aging I'm also running the slides now and then so I can reach the magic 100 hour "safe" mark faster. Once I reach that mark, however, I still want to be safe and mix up the content as much as possible, but after examining my BD and DVD collection I'm amazed at how much of it is 2.35:1. I abhor zoomed or stretched content, so I'm struggling to find 1.85:1 content to watch as I break in the set.



Slides/Normal Content-Break in

Pixel Flipper-Removing IR or possbily fixing a stuck pixel/IR Prevention

Scrolling BAR-IR Removal/IR Prevention


That's my 2 cents


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23373143
> 
> 
> Thank you all for the added info and the link!
> 
> 
> The only thing I did for the first 100+ hours is tried not to stay on the same channel with a logo more than 10-15 min clips, I tried to stay on the 1080HD channels so that the screen showed full view w/o black bars and I kept the setting on THX Movie defualt (which is the darker setting) vs the THX (day/ brighter view setting).
> 
> 
> I have another question on IR vs permanent Burn-In damage. Does the permanent damage leave in imprint in a different color, other then white? And from past experiences how many hours would one have to stay on the same screen imprint to get burn-in image, vs a temp IR?
> 
> 
> At the time I bought the TV, Best Buy offered their extended warranty (which I did not buy), they were explaining that their warranty would cover IR repair and if the IR turns into a burns in, they would replace the TV but I don't know how true that is and did not bother to ask the fine print on the contract but always wondered what "their" repair would involve, using a Disney WOW disc or something else, if something else I would think someone on this forum would have the answer!?



It sounds like you took it easy for the first 100 hours or so and that’s a good thing. From what I’ve read there’s always a big debate regarding IR vs burn-in. Persistant IR can look the same as a burned-in image. I believe, the difference is that IR will eventually begin to fade where as a burned-in image will not. Though some IR will take quite a long time to fade.


Most experts now will say that you truly need to abuse your panel to get burn-in. How long does it take…imo is up for debate and probably varies from panel to panel. I personally have witnessed the espn banner burn-in at my favorite sports bar, but the proprietor there has had the plasmas above the bar tuned to espn 15hrs a day for a few years now. I believe, that under normal usage new plasma panels are unlikely to get burn-in. I have the ST50 and as I’ve stated before, it has been fairly IR resistant. I watch a wide variety of programming including baseball, basketball, espn, letterbox movies and have increased my gaming to no ill effect. From reading the forums, it seems people have used the WOW pixel flipper with varying degrees of success.


There are a few on the forum that have used the BestBuy IR/Burn-in warranty program and hopefully they will chime in as well.


----------



## Jeremyd5

Thought I'd share my ST50 IR experiment now that the panel has over 2,000 hours. At 1,200 - 1,3000 hours I accidentally left Cartoon Network running for about 4 hours and had IR of the CN logo that could be seen during regular viewing on light backgrounds. After an overnight run of zoomed out content the logo cleared.


Since my work schedule was going to be very busy for the next 3 months, I decided to run the HDTV as much as I could to get it to 2,000 hours and then see what would happen if I duplicated the same mishap. I hit the 2,000 hour mark yesterday so when my alarm clock went off at 5:00 AM central time this morning I turned on CN full screen and went back to bed. The 1st check was a little after 8:00 AM during a commercial break and again at 10:00 (lost track of time so 1 extra hour) but this time with the picture zoomed to remove the logo.


The end result? At 8:00 I could not detect any IR from the logo during regular viewing from the couch. However, at 10:00 I was able to see an IR of the CN logo, although to my eyes it seemed a little less distinct as I really had to stare closely at the logo area for awhile before spotting the CN logo IR, certainly not the case last time. Now I'm just running logo free animation (my preferred method to clear IR) to find out how long it will take the IR to clear. The plan is to check every hour until I can't find it. I will post once that occurs.


Edit 1 (6:45 PM): I can no longer see the CN logo IR. Watched for about 10 minutes and couldn't spot it on any light, solid backgrounds. Previous check was at 6:00 so for 5 hours of viewing CN it took approximately 8 1/2 hours to clear. Not what I was hoping for as far as removal time goes and has me wondering how I'm going to watch regular TV safely on this panel if it takes almost 1/2 a day to wipe out previous visible logo IR. While I do mix up content, CN is a popular choice so it will see more watching than other channels. So weird that this panel gets far more severe, long duration IR than my 800U. Maybe that type of visible IR is normal but I've never had It on my 800U, even in it's early days. Should I be concerned about how long it took to clead or does that seem normal?


----------



## Oimagination

Hey everyone. This is my first post on the forum. I found this place by doing google searches for IR fixes.


I just bought my first plasma a few weeks ago. 50'' Panasonic u50, which I believe is a 2012 model. Gamed a bit too much Dark Souls (about 30 hours over a 1 week period, while only watching 20-30 hours of full-screen movies/TV during the same week) with the contrast at 90 and I've got some persistent Image Retention. It's been there for 5 days now and hasn't really faded much at all.


I've read a lot of posts now about people talking about fixes for this, ranging from using the color slides, to a black background with the scrolling white bar, to a full white screen for a couple days straight, to using that black/white static fuzz, or just watching more full-screen TV.


Something I'm curious about is how many people have actually used any of these successfully? I've seen like a hundred people now saying these are the ''fixes,'' but few people actually saying they successfully cleared IR that wasn't going away after watching normal TV.


I found the post about some apparently more knowledgeable fellow outlining the differences between 3 different kinds of IR and Burn-in, and judging from his explanation it seems like mine is most likely MgO Sputtering, and his suggested fix is a full-screen white background for 24-100 hours. So my question is this - has anyone actually used a full-screen white image for 24+ hours to cure IR that wasn't going away after several days of normal TV viewing? Can doing a full-screen white image for that long potentially damage my TV?


Thanks!


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23383747
> 
> 
> Hey everyone. This is my first post on the forum. I found this place by doing google searches for IR fixes.
> 
> 
> I just bought my first plasma a few weeks ago. 50'' Panasonic u50, which I believe is a 2012 model. Gamed a bit too much Dark Souls (about 30 hours over a 1 week period, while only watching 20-30 hours of full-screen movies/TV during the same week) with the contrast at 90 and I've got some persistent Image Retention. It's been there for 5 days now and hasn't really faded much at all.
> 
> 
> I've read a lot of posts now about people talking about fixes for this, ranging from using the color slides, to a black background with the scrolling white bar, to a full white screen for a couple days straight, to using that black/white static fuzz, or just watching more full-screen TV.
> 
> 
> Something I'm curious about is how many people have actually used any of these successfully? I've seen like a hundred people now saying these are the ''fixes,'' but few people actually saying they successfully cleared IR that wasn't going away after watching normal TV.
> 
> 
> I found the post about some apparently more knowledgeable fellow outlining the differences between 3 different kinds of IR and Burn-in, and judging from his explanation it seems like mine is most likely MgO Sputtering, and his suggested fix is a full-screen white background for 24-100 hours. So my question is this - has anyone actually used a full-screen white image for 24+ hours to cure IR that wasn't going away after several days of normal TV viewing? Can doing a full-screen white image for that long potentially damage my TV?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Buy the Disney WOW blu ray disc. It has a pixel flipper. You might need to run it overnight from days to weeks depending how bad it is but if something is going to get it out, that will. Turn contrast all the way up when you run it. The disc is about $20 on Amazon and it will also assist in calibrating your TV.


----------



## Oimagination

OK I might try that WOW disc. Thanks.


Something interesting with the IR on my plasma is that I'm sure part of it is located 1-2 inches above the HUD display in Dark Souls. Most of it is clearly from the game... but there's one strip an inch or two higher which makes me wonder how it got there. But the coloring and everything looks exactly like the other parts of the IR so I don't think it's a damaged part of the screen or anything like that.


----------



## Heywould

IR discovered and wasnt even trying to find it... the good news is that I have to do very specific things to see it, the bad news is that it is VERY bad under those conditions.. With that said, I am not even a litle upset.


The way I found it was by messing with Dnice's slides, I wasnt running them, I was using the tv as my computer display, I was looking through some of the pics I had in the downloads folder and they came up. when I got to the red slide I saw as very noticable (from 15' away) logo in the bottom right, I watch a lot of PBS, in this case I was watching the "Create" shows(the word is bright white with red symbol). I had the word create (the word not the symbol) was very clear. The interesting thing is that I could only see it on the red slide, and I could make it worse or better if I put the red slide in a window and reszed it (made smaller) over the area. On full screen I can see it pretty clear, if I resize the window to 25% or so over the logo I can read it like it was on that channel (sorta).


After this I looked for more and I found a few other areas less noticable from netflix or amazon instant ( I use Roku instead of built in) I ran the pixel shifter over night and it got rid of a lot of it but it was still there.


So.... I do have this issue and it is very obvious if you are under the right conditions..


I should also mention that if I make the red slide different sizes the IR is more or mess noticible, this is because the pannel gets brighter if you make the bright image smaller, there is a sweet spot between dim and light, this is where I do not see it..


I can not see this "Create" IR on the white or gray slides, it is not there under the blue but there is another IR image that is less noticable, the green has very slight IR but I only see it if I put the green slide in a window and make it 80% of full screen.


So, I guess this IR is or can be an issue if you worry about these things, I personally dont care because I never see it on regular content, and when I do see it its not distracting.


For the record, I have the 60ST60. I have it set using Cnets settings, all CATS/ECO settings off, COntrast at 83 brightness at 0. I ran Dnice slides for over 100 hours, I have had the TV for a month and a half.


PS, the IR is so strong that I can get a clear picture of it..(the WOW disk makes it fade though..


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23384831
> 
> 
> PS, the IR is so strong that I can get a clear picture of it..(the WOW disk makes it fade though..



If the WOW disk is helping, you could run that regularly to help remove an nuisance IR.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23384916
> 
> 
> If the WOW disk is helping, you could run that regularly to help remove an nuisance IR.



Yeah, I have run it two nights in a row, it did fade, but the red slide test still shows the Create IR, I think it will quite a bit of time to get rid of it all.. I will keep running it over the next few weeks at night to see what happens,,


As I said, i'm not overly worried about it, I never watch anything that has an all red background so I wont see it when using the TV as intended..


I was mainly commenting on it to let everyone know what I was seeing on my version of the TV. There has been a lot of talk about it being worse or better on different pannels, I suspect its about the same on all, its only that you need to create the right conditions to make the IR visible, this is dependent on what you watch to get the IR.. For example, if the logo on one persons TV is from a RED or BLUE icon the IR will be more visible under different conditions than someone that has IR From a white logo..


This is just my opinion, but since I absolutly can not see the IR under white or gray slides, but its very visible with the red slide, I have a feeling I may be correct. (If not, then at least its in the right direction)


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23379320
> 
> 
> Edit 1 (6:45 PM): I can no longer see the CN logo IR. Watched for about 10 minutes and couldn't spot it on any light, solid backgrounds. Previous check was at 6:00 so for 5 hours of viewing CN it took approximately 8 1/2 hours to clear. Not what I was hoping for as far as removal time goes and has me wondering how I'm going to watch regular TV safely on this panel if it takes almost 1/2 a day to wipe out previous visible logo IR. While I do mix up content, CN is a popular choice so it will see more watching than other channels. So weird that this panel gets far more severe, long duration IR than my 800U. Maybe that type of visible IR is normal but I've never had It on my 800U, even in it's early days. Should I be concerned about how long it took to clead or does that seem normal?



Thanks for this post. It’s good to hear a long-term report. I have an ST50 as well and it sounds from your experience that burn-in is not an issue but that persistent IR can plague this panel. It may be that the WOW pixel flipper is needed from time to time to deal with IR. This is a great panel so I can with this. Thanks again for your post.


----------



## DavidHir

I've got some IR on my ST30 from The History channel logo I want to get rid of before I sell it. I was looking on Amazon and it appears there are at least two versions of the Disney Wow: does the cheaper version still have the pixel flipper? It sounds like this is working pretty well for people.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DavidHir*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23384961
> 
> 
> I've got some IR on my ST30 from The History channel logo I want to get rid of before I sell it. I was looking on Amazon and it appears there are at least two versions of the Disney Wow: does the cheaper version still have the pixel flipper? It sounds like this is working pretty well for people.



Yes, the one disk version does have the pixel flipper..


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23384943
> 
> 
> Thanks for this post. It’s good to hear a long-term report. I have an ST50 as well and it sounds from your experience that burn-in is not an issue but that persistent IR can plague this panel. It may be that the WOW pixel flipper is needed from time to time to deal with IR. This is a great panel so I can with this. Thanks again for your post.



No problem. This test also alleviated my concerns about longer single sessions (accidental or intentional). However, I'm still trying to decide if the panel's penchant for stubborn IR will eventually cause problems with repeated watching of a TV channel over time even if I make sure to mix up content so that the IR can clear each time, which, while annoying given how long it takes, is something I'm willing to do to preserve the beautiful PQ.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23373187
> 
> 
> I'm always quite surprised @ the calibration settings that is posted around here to see contrast set so high on a plasma.
> 
> As noted above, IR is ultimately caused by contrast being dialed up too high.



Those settings are for running slides only not for normal TV viewing. My calibrated TV settings have contrast set lower, 80 or 82 I believe for my ST50.


----------



## RetroGiant

I only have about probably 30-40 hours on my ST60 but when watching movies on HBO and stuff I use cadets settings that has contrast at 83 and when watching anything with a logo I use cadets settings but with the contrast at like 50-60. Haven't watched any shows for too long with any logos but have messed around in the menus quite a bit fiddling with stuff and have had zero IR so far. Hope it stays that way. Even still, I have the WoW disk in case of stubborn IR.


----------



## nsps




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23372422
> 
> 
> The only legitmate purpose is to accumulate hours prior to calibrating imo, but that can be accomplished using varied content, they are really for use only in preparation for dnices calibration settings anything beyond that is either a placebo or some interpretation with no basis in fact



Given that, what is the best way to age a panel to the point where it's safe to watch pillar-boxed and letter-boxed content? The majority of my TV usage is watching movies, and at least 65% of those movies are in Academy, 1.66:1 or 2.35:1. I don't have enough full-screen content that I really want to watch right now to go through 100 hours of it (although I have plenty of 1.66:1 movies, which has the slimmest bars), so the safest bet seemed to be to age the phosphors with slides when I'm not watching it. If it won't make a difference, I can just turn my TV off when I'm not watching it and watch whatever I want, regardless of aspect ratio.


If IR proves to be a problem with pillar-boxing and letter-boxing, I'll have to return my TV (50PS64) and look for another solution, but I was under the impression that it was advisable to age it.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nsps*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23391957
> 
> 
> Given that, what is the best way to age a panel to the point where it's safe to watch pillar-boxed and letter-boxed content? The majority of my TV usage is watching movies, and at least 65% of those movies are in Academy, 1.66:1 or 2.35:1. I don't have enough full-screen content that I really want to watch right now to go through 100 hours of it (although I have plenty of 1.66:1 movies, which has the slimmest bars), so the safest bet seemed to be to age the phosphors with slides when I'm not watching it. If it won't make a difference, I can just turn my TV off when I'm not watching it and watch whatever I want, regardless of aspect ratio.
> 
> 
> If IR proves to be a problem with pillar-boxing and letter-boxing, I'll have to return my TV (50PS64) and look for another solution, but I was under the impression that it was advisable to age it.



I'm in the same position as you. Most of my Blu-rays are 2.40 or 2.35:1. On one hand, people will say "Slides are a waste of time," but then turn around and say "just don't watch anything with black bars for the first 100 hours." They'll tell you to zoom or stretch your content so it's full screen, but I can't stand watching movies that way, so to be on the safe side I'm running the slides a few hours a day when I'm not watching TV to put some additional hours on it. And when I'm watching TV (full screen content, of course) I'm dialing down the contrast a bit for now.


I know slides don't prevent IR or burn-in, but everyone says those problems are more likely to occur in the first 100 hours, so the faster I get 100 hours on the set the faster I can use it how I want to.


Once I hit 100 hours I'll still probably run the slides or the scroll bar for a few minutes after watching letterboxed content, at least for a while.


I've read enough testimonials here from plasma owners who run a lot of letterbox content without long term problems, so I'm not scared to keep the set.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23393112
> 
> 
> I'm in the same position as you. Most of my Blu-rays are 2.40 or 2.35:1. On one hand, people will say "Slides are a waste of time," but then turn around and say "just don't watch anything with black bars for the first 100 hours." They'll tell you to zoom or stretch your content so it's full screen, but I can't stand watching movies that way, so to be on the safe side I'm running the slides a few hours a day when I'm not watching TV to put some additional hours on it. And when I'm watching TV (full screen content, of course) I'm dialing down the contrast a bit for now.
> 
> 
> I know slides don't prevent IR or burn-in, but everyone says those problems are more likely to occur in the first 100 hours, so the faster I get 100 hours on the set the faster I can use it how I want to.
> 
> 
> Once I hit 100 hours I'll still probably run the slides or the scroll bar for a few minutes after watching letterboxed content, at least for a while.
> 
> 
> I've read enough testimonials here from plasma owners who run a lot of letterbox content without long term problems, so I'm not scared to keep the set.



You can watch whatever you want the first 100 hours just mix it up another myth that has perpetuated itself here unfortunately


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4290#post_23393302
> 
> 
> You can watch whatever you want the first 100 hours just mix it up another myth that has perpetuated itself here unfortunately



Agreed. Feel free to watch whatever you like and enjoy your panel. I watch a lot of blu rays and letterbox movies via fios and have not had a problem. Also running slides does little to remove IR and that is not their purpose. If you get IR from letterbox movies, which I doubt you will, most people have had success in removing it with the use of a pixel flipper or plain old TV static.


----------



## RedZeppelin

That's why I love this thread.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23393799
> 
> 
> That's why I love this thread.



I think that's what Chunon and I are trying to clear up. D-Nice clearly states the slide procedure is for prepping the panel for future calibration. Quoting D-Nice, “This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn -in prevention.”


Running slides is no different than watching varied content for 100hrs or so. In my case, the slides helped me get past 100hrs quickly so that I could have my panel professionally calibrated within the first few weeks of ownership.


----------



## nsps

So the phosphors are aging during the first 100-200 hours, but not so much that it actually makes a difference whether some of them just fire black the whole time?


Sorry, I'm new to plasma. I understand that the D-Nice slides aren't designed to prevent burn-in down the road, but I've also seen advice saying you should only watch full-screen content for the first 100 hours. The slides seem as safe an option as any as far as full-screen content goes — safer than just leaving the TV on a random channel, anyhow.


----------



## Robert Bays

I have an LG 50PN6500, with 80 hours on it. my kids watch alot of cartoon network, it may be on for hours at a time, with no IR i can detect. the logo is very dim and translucent, as are all other channel logos here in NZ. do use the orbiter feature. I have been keeping the content fairly varied apart from that.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nsps*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23396233
> 
> 
> So the phosphors are aging during the first 100-200 hours, but not so much that it actually makes a difference whether some of them just fire black the whole time?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm new to plasma. I understand that the D-Nice slides aren't designed to prevent burn-in down the road, but I've also seen advice saying you should only watch full-screen content for the first 100 hours. The slides seem as safe an option as any as far as full-screen content goes — safer than just leaving the TV on a random channel, anyhow.



Obviously it depends on whom you ask. Most seem to agree that the first 100 hours or so are the most critical and extra care should be taken during that time (e.g. no black bars, lowering your contrast).


I'm new to plasma as well, but I interpret the slides the same way you do. The slides are not meant for break-in and will not prevent burn-in or IR, however they are a safe option for those who want to put some full-screen hours on their TV while unattended to reach the 100 hour "safe" mark faster. Watching full screen content accomplishes the same thing.


I think much of this thread consists of disagreements among people who actually agree.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23397289
> 
> 
> Obviously it depends on whom you ask. Most seem to agree that the first 100 hours or so are the most critical and extra care should be taken during that time (e.g. no black bars, lowering your contrast).
> 
> 
> I'm new to plasma as well, but I interpret the slides the same way you do. The slides are not meant for break-in and will not prevent burn-in or IR, however they are a safe option for those who want to put some full-screen hours on their TV while unattended to reach the 100 hour "safe" mark faster. Watching full screen content accomplishes the same thing.
> 
> 
> I think much of this thread consists of disagreements among people who actually agree.



I am new to plasma as well and have found the members of this forum very helpful. IMHO, lowering contrast/brightness and watching varied content during the first 100hrs or so is all anyone really needs to do. I used slides, watched letterbox blu-ray movies, ESPN and gamed during my panel’s first 300hrs.


Most recently, a lot of disagreement has been around persistent IR vs. burn-n and if the 2012-2013 batch of Panasonic plasmas are susceptible to IR.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23397583
> 
> 
> 
> Most recently, a lot of disagreement has been around persistent IR vs. burn-n and if the 2012-2013 batch of Panasonic plasmas are susceptible to IR.



I think all things being equal EVEYONE with the ST60 will have the same IR. I am convinced that a few things have to be in place for the IR to be as bad as some see it (me included)


I am using Cnets settings with contrast 83-90 depending, brightness at 0 most of the time.. I have IR that I can only see if I run the dnice slides and look for it on the red slide., the other slides (green and blue) have a very slight IR but its different than what I see with the red slide.


The white and gray have slight IR also but its very faint and different than the others i see.


So, if everyone watched the same thing and then ran the same test and looked at it under the same conditions, I think they would see it.. I do think there are differences in panels but the difference will only slightly change the brightness of the IR, I think IR will be there for all of us.


Just my opinion, but if you read through all the data on all the threads, you can find common things, the people that say they have no IR give a lot less data (understandably) but I think they may not duplicate the same conditions in which others are seeing it..


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23397868
> 
> 
> I think all things being equal EVEYONE with the ST60 will have the same IR. I am convinced that a few things have to be in place for the IR to be as bad as some see it (me included)
> 
> 
> I am using Cnets settings with contrast 83-90 depending, brightness at 0 most of the time.. I have IR that I can only see if I run the dnice slides and look for it on the red slide., the other slides (green and blue) have a very slight IR but its different than what I see with the red slide.
> 
> 
> The white and gray have slight IR also but its very faint and different than the others i see.
> 
> 
> So, if everyone watched the same thing and then ran the same test and looked at it under the same conditions, I think they would see it.. I do think there are differences in panels but the difference will only slightly change the brightness of the IR, I think IR will be there for all of us.
> 
> 
> Just my opinion, but if you read through all the data on all the threads, you can find common things, the people that say they have no IR give a lot less data (understandably) but I think they may not duplicate the same conditions in which others are seeing it..


Agreed. I am not convinced some people got better panels that are immune to IR.


----------



## Raikirik

Heywould, I'm quoting you here from the ST60 thread so I can continue the IR talk here.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/1450484/official-panasonic-tc-pxxst60-series-thread/5790#post_23397795
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, If I run the red slide and put it in a window like i explain in my other thread I can still make out the create word, it’s not the same, it’s not all there either, it’s hard to explain, I do not see the whole word "CREATE" I see a little of the E and A a little less of the T, if I didn’t know they were letters I would not know they were E A or T, they are that broken up. It is very faint but there. I do not see ANYTHING on the gray /white slides.
> 
> 
> imagine taking a picture of the word CREATE with a high res camera, now resize it to 1/10th size then blow it back up, can you picture what that would look like? (Lower resolution picture with blocks of color?) Then fade the picture by 90%, that’s about what I see under the red windowed slide.
> 
> 
> I will try to take a pic of it.. Keep in mind, I watched hours of that channel each day for a couple weeks. The first few weeks I owned the TV I never saw one hint of IR,, it might be true what others are saying, you get more IR after the TV gets older, I don’t know for sure though.



The way you described your IR is how I'm seeing mine now. It's broken up and if you didn't know what letters were originally there you wouldn't even know they were letters. The SELECT from the menu is pretty much completely gone but RETURN is ever so slightly there along with the circle resembling the control on the remote. I'm surprised the rest of the settings menu didn't cause any IR since it was on screen at the same time but glad it didn't.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Raikirik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398020
> 
> 
> Heywould, I'm quoting you here from the ST60 thread so I can continue the IR talk here.
> 
> The way you described your IR is how I'm seeing mine now. It's broken up and if you didn't know what letters were originally there you wouldn't even know they were letters. The SELECT from the menu is pretty much completely gone but RETURN is ever so slightly there along with the circle resembling the control on the remote. I'm surprised the rest of the settings menu didn't cause any IR since it was on screen at the same time but glad it didn't.



This is the first time a ever ran slides on a TV, this is the first time I ever looked for IR, this is the first time I cared so much about what might be wrong with my set.. (and im not as bad as some others)


If I watch regular tv I never see anything at all,, so I really dont see why I should be woried..if I have to pause a red slide to see sligh impression of a couple letters then there is nothing wrong with my TV.. there is just so much hype and talk about lag and IR and stuff that people worry.. YES there are issues with this tech but there are also issues with LED or DLP or CRT... nothing is without problems I guess.



I really do watch what ever I want and I do not think twice about scaling for the black bars or LOGOs. If I have a problem I can fix it, if not I wont worry.. its only a TV and a cheap one at that.. (For what you get)


----------



## RetroGiant

I just find it crazy (but I 100% do believe them) hearing about people with IR from the menu screens. How long did you have the menu up? My ST60 is early in its life, not even the 100 hour mark, and I have not seen an ounce of IR from the menu at all when adjusting settings. If my tv got IR that fast just from adjusting settings or displaying a static image for like 2 minutes, that would worry me. Luckily that's not the case so far.


----------



## Raikirik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398105
> 
> 
> I just find it crazy (but I 100% do believe them) hearing about people with IR from the menu screens. How long did you have the menu up? My ST60 is early in its life, not even the 100 hour mark, and I have not seen an ounce of IR from the menu at all when adjusting settings. If my tv got IR that fast just from adjusting settings or displaying a static image for like 2 minutes, that would worry me. Luckily that's not the case so far.



I had the menu up on and off but I guess I did it too much. My contrast was set to 81 and my set had about 15 hours on it when I noticed it. Only the SELECT and RETURN left light IR the rest of the menu is nowhere to be found.


I previously had the ST50 which I returned for dust under the screen. On that panel, the Oppo logo from my player left mild IR after only a few seconds so I was surprised that the ST60 didn't do the same with my Oppo, however as I stated above the SELECT and RETURN caused some sticky IR which I can now only barely see on one color slide. If I wasn't trying out the slides I wouldn't even know the IR was there.


The U50 I got for my parents used to get IR from the Samsung logo screen on their blu ray player after only a few seconds but it would go away in seconds. Months later the logo doesn't leave any trace.


I think I have some belief in the camp that says IR is less likely the older the set gets and of course that IR is more likely early on after my observations.


----------



## Heywould

It also depends on how soon after you had the menus up before you looked for or noticed the ir. if you noticed it within 5 min of messing with menus then I think the ir would be obvious, if you ran the tv for hours after using the menu and still noticed it I would be surprised. The use of the tv on its own reduces the ir from static images..


----------



## Raikirik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398241
> 
> 
> It also depends on how soon after you had the menus up before you looked for or noticed the ir. if you noticed it within 5 min of messing with menus then I think the ir would be obvious, if you ran the tv for hours after using the menu and still noticed it I would be surprised. The use of the tv on its own reduces the ir from static images..



Pretty much!


----------



## Heywould

Yeah, I don't think ir in my case accurately describes my issue. It's more like localized at the pixel level, uneven illumination. If I look at the red slide and I see ir, it's represented by less saturated red, but it's not there on the other slides so there is no image retained. If it were retained image wouldn't I see it if I put my face up to the panel? I have and it's not.,


Anyway tomato tamatto it's something and people don't like it


----------



## RetroGiant

I still would be a little, in a way disappointed, that if I had just bought the tv, used the menu for less than a few minutes and then check and see it gets IR that fast. I am fairly new to plasma though, as I have only had a Samsung cheap 43" plasma in the bedroom for about a year and it took HOURS for IR to become an issue. I've had the ST60 a week today. I do not however look for IR on slides because my OCD would go into overdrive and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it completely. I have been keeping my contrast at 50 though with anything with a logo. Haven't gamed yet on it, but that probably worries me the most, but it is what it is. As long as I can't really notice it during regular tv viewing it wont bother me that much. And if I do notice it, I'll just run the pixel flipper overnight. Sucks if it gets it but coming from an LCD local dimming to plasma, plasma looks soooo much better. Even with contrast at 50 it outperforms my old Vizioxvt553 on its best day.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398319
> 
> 
> I still would be a little, in a way disappointed, that if I had just bought the tv, used the menu for less than a few minutes and then check and see it gets IR that fast. I am fairly new to plasma though, as I have only had a Samsung cheap 43" plasma in the bedroom for about a year and it took HOURS for IR to become an issue. I've had the ST60 a week today. I do not however look for IR on slides because my OCD would go into overdrive and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it completely. I have been keeping my contrast at 50 though with anything with a logo. Haven't gamed yet on it, but that probably worries me the most, but it is what it is. As long as I can't really notice it during regular tv viewing it wont bother me that much. And if I do notice it, I'll just run the pixel flipper overnight. Sucks if it gets it but coming from an LCD local dimming to plasma, plasma looks soooo much better. Even with contrast at 50 it outperforms my old Vizioxvt553 on its best day.


To compare a Vizio LCD to any Panasonic plasma is a little unfair. lol


Also, when I had my ST60 I could not imagine keeping the contrast on 50. During the day I had to pump it up to 89 for it to cut through enough to enjoy the picture. At 50 I probably wouldn't have even known the TV was on.


----------



## Raikirik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398319
> 
> 
> I still would be a little, in a way disappointed, that if I had just bought the tv, used the menu for less than a few minutes and then check and see it gets IR that fast. I am fairly new to plasma though, as I have only had a Samsung cheap 43" plasma in the bedroom for about a year and it took HOURS for IR to become an issue. I've had the ST60 a week today. I do not however look for IR on slides because my OCD would go into overdrive and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it completely. I have been keeping my contrast at 50 though with anything with a logo. Haven't gamed yet on it, but that probably worries me the most, but it is what it is. As long as I can't really notice it during regular tv viewing it wont bother me that much. And if I do notice it, I'll just run the pixel flipper overnight. Sucks if it gets it but coming from an LCD local dimming to plasma, plasma looks soooo much better. Even with contrast at 50 it outperforms my old Vizioxvt553 on its best day.



With contrast set to 50 I think it would be hard for you to get IR from most things. It's my fault for going into the settings too often with my contrast set where it is but it's not that big a deal because the whole menu didn't show up only two words. Someone mentioned their PS3 text leaving IR after only a few seconds but on mine it didn't leave anything. I even ff and rew some blu rays where a small box showing the scene would appear on screen and I did that for a while. That left no IR at all.


I'll also bring up the ST50 again. I played Uncharted 3 on the 50 and I got some mild IR from the weapon indicator after like 5 minutes and my contrast was at 65. I played on the ST60 with contrast at 81 and afterwards noticed no IR.


So I guess my panel had a weakness to the words SELECT and RETURN for some reason!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23397868
> 
> 
> I think all things being equal EVEYONE with the ST60 will have the same IR. I am convinced that a few things have to be in place for the IR to be as bad as some see it (me included)
> 
> 
> I am using Cnets settings with contrast 83-90 depending, brightness at 0 most of the time.. I have IR that I can only see if I run the dnice slides and look for it on the red slide., the other slides (green and blue) have a very slight IR but its different than what I see with the red slide.



If your IR is only visible on certain color slides an not during normal viewing, I would argue, that your panel does not have an IR problem. Many have not used color slides, have not seen IR and can honestly say IR is not an issue. I have never seen IR on my ST50 under normal viewing usage, so for me, it is not a problem. Enjoy your panel it has awesome pq.


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398375
> 
> 
> To compare a Vizio LCD to any Panasonic plasma is a little unfair. lol
> 
> 
> Also, when I had my ST60 I could not imagine keeping the contrast on 50. During the day I had to pump it up to 89 for it to cut through enough to enjoy the picture. At 50 I probably wouldn't have even known the TV was on.


Well to be fair the Vizio was full LED backlighting with local dimming and boasting the 10million to one contrast ratio (BS), cnet gave it a really good rating, etc., so it was one of Vizios "best" tv's, but I do agree lol. Not even in the same realm. Heck my Samsung d450 in the bedroom had a better picture than the Vizio.


And the contrast at 50 during the day is pretty low and surely not optimal viewing quality but when I clothes the curtains it looks fine to me. But when I'm watching movies I put it back to 80. I just have it at 50 to be "safe" until I feel comfortable running it normal with shows with logos and games.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398319
> 
> 
> I still would be a little, in a way disappointed, that if I had just bought the tv, used the menu for less than a few minutes and then check and see it gets IR that fast. I am fairly new to plasma though, as I have only had a Samsung cheap 43" plasma in the bedroom for about a year and it took HOURS for IR to become an issue. I've had the ST60 a week today. I do not however look for IR on slides because my OCD would go into overdrive and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it completely. I have been keeping my contrast at 50 though with anything with a logo. Haven't gamed yet on it, but that probably worries me the most, but it is what it is. As long as I can't really notice it during regular tv viewing it wont bother me that much. And if I do notice it, I'll just run the pixel flipper overnight. Sucks if it gets it but coming from an LCD local dimming to plasma, plasma looks soooo much better. Even with contrast at 50 it outperforms my old Vizioxvt553 on its best day.



I think part of the issue is that people are "checking for IR" instead of just enjoying their panels. Yes I am guilty of this as well. If I have the menu up for 15 minutes or so and then watch a movie, no IR is present. If I check immediately with color slides it may or may not be there. The point that I continue to make is that IR is only a problem if it is visible when watching normal tv/movie content.


My advice; stop watching slides and enjoy your panel.


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398460
> 
> 
> I think part of the issue is that people are "checking for IR" instead of just enjoying their panels. Yes I am guilty of this as well. If I have the menu up for 15 minutes or so and then watch a movie, no IR is present. If I check immediately with color slides it may or may not be there. The point that I continue to make is that IR is only a problem if it is visible when watching normal tv/movie content.
> 
> 
> My advice; stop watching slides and enjoy your panel.


I 100% support this and is my mentality for sure. Even on my Samsung which has the Investigation Discovery IR pretty bad, unless it hits a scene in a movie or show just right, I can very rarely spot it. Now on certain commercials with plain backgrounds I can see it and I'm like "ehhhh thats pretty bad" but the other 98% of the time I NEVER notice it. If you let it become more of an "issue" than it really is, you will drive yourself insane. Enjoy the tv and try to stop going out of your way to look for problems you would otherwise never see.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CheYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4260#post_23350898
> 
> 
> For a few weeks now I've been doing it. My panel is fine after I watch a letterboxed movie, I really only notice the IR on bright white or otherwise high colored logos like baseball scoreboxes that are always present during a game, or logos from like A&E and the likes.When I turn my PS3 on, the icons will leave a few seconds of IR as well. It's definitely annoying, but I've learned to live with it as a plasma owner. Personally, I think some people may be lying to themselves when they say that get absolutely no IR on their ST panels, I've seen more than a few that will exhibit it for at least a little while after watching a nice bright logo or baseball game.



Yes, after owning this baby for a while now I notice, if I look hard enough standing about a foot away from the panel, that when I have the menu up, or walk away from a video game that there is some residual leftovers. I'm glad to report, though, that it does only last for maybe 10-20 minutes at the most, in which case I'l watch reguar content. I'm hoping that after a month and a week of just about constantly having it on that it is aged enough where it wouldn't actually be that great a problem? I now see what some have said about content looking better than when first using it! WHAT a picture. I am absolutely amazed at the PQ and black levels. I never realized how much I like the level of blackness until this tv. Back to the ageing thing, tho, am I closer to being at the point of not really having to worry about BI? I'm a plasma noob, so...


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398460
> 
> 
> I think part of the issue is that people are "checking for IR" instead of just enjoying their panels. Yes I am guilty of this as well. If I have the menu up for 15 minutes or so and then watch a movie, no IR is present. If I check immediately with color slides it may or may not be there. The point that I continue to make is that IR is only a problem if it is visible when watching normal tv/movie content. My advice; stop watching slides and enjoy your panel.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398482
> 
> 
> I 100% support this and is my mentality for sure. Even on my Samsung which has the Investigation Discovery IR pretty bad, unless it hits a scene in a movie or show just right, I can very rarely spot it. Now on certain commercials with plain backgrounds I can see it and I'm like "ehhhh thats pretty bad" but the other 98% of the time I NEVER notice it. If you let it become more of an "issue" than it really is, you will drive yourself insane. Enjoy the tv and try to stop going out of your way to look for problems you would otherwise never see.



I'm starting to subscribe to this attitude as well. Paranoia and lack of experience can be a funny thing











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398375
> 
> 
> To compare a Vizio LCD to any Panasonic plasma is a little unfair. lol
> 
> 
> Also, when I had my ST60 I could not imagine keeping the contrast on 50. During the day I had to pump it up to 89 for it to cut through enough to enjoy the picture. At 50 I probably wouldn't have even known the TV was on.



Hey eric3316, your're still here! LOL! Missing your ST!? ;P


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398610
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to subscribe to this attitude as well. Paranoia and lack of experience can be a funny thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey eric3316, your're still here! LOL! Missing your ST!? ;P


Yeah, the thread for my TV is dead so why not hang around here. I do miss my ST60 a little bit though. Lol


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398561
> 
> 
> Yes, after owning this baby for a while now I notice, if I look hard enough standing about a foot away from the panel, that when I have the menu up, or walk away from a video game that there is some residual leftovers. I'm glad to report, though, that it does only last for maybe 10-20 minutes at the most, in which case I'l watch reguar content. I'm hoping that after a month and a week of just about constantly having it on that it is aged enough where it wouldn't actually be that great a problem? I now see what some have said about content looking better than when first using it! WHAT a picture. I am absolutely amazed at the PQ and black levels. I never realized how much I like the level of blackness until this tv. Back to the ageing thing, tho, am I closer to being at the point of not really having to worry about BI? I'm a plasma noob, so...



You really have to abuse your panel to get Burn-in. Enjoy your panel.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23398818
> 
> 
> You really have to abuse your panel to get Burn-in. Enjoy your panel.



YAY! I'm done. LOL


----------



## olyteddy

If folks are getting IR from simply using menus, I have to ask why the manufacturers haven't done something about it? After all the menus are the one thing they _can_ control, content wise. Reducing the contrast or color cycling the backgrounds would make sense. Whoever invented the white letters on a blue background anyway?


----------



## Oimagination

Disney WOW blu ray arrived today. Currently running the pixel flipper. I'll let y'all know if I have any success with it.


Apparently the pixel flipper changes the colour of every single pixel on your screen 20-40 times per second.. pretty cool!


Also, a point about lowering contrast to avoid IR.... my friend's 2010 panasonic plasma is always set to 55 contrast and if he games it on a single game for like 5+ hours then he still gets IR that might take a few days to go away. And he's had the TV for a couple years now so it is definitely "broken in."


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4320#post_23402529
> 
> 
> Disney WOW blu ray arrived today. Currently running the pixel flipper. I'll let y'all know if I have any success with it.
> 
> 
> Apparently the pixel flipper changes the colour of every single pixel on your screen 20-40 times per second.. pretty cool!
> 
> 
> Also, a point about lowering contrast to avoid IR.... my friend's 2010 panasonic plasma is always set to 55 contrast and if he games it on a single game for like 5+ hours then he still gets IR that might take a few days to go away. And he's had the TV for a couple years now so it is definitely "broken in."



I dont know how bad your IR is but I find I need to run it overnight while sleeping and its mostly gone the next AM, not all of it though.. it might take a few long runs to get rid of it..


On the same hand, if you dont see any IR while sitting in your normal spot then I wouldnt worry about it anyway. normal viewing will get rid of it over time too..


----------



## Oimagination

I actually can see it a bit when watching other stuff... so I'd like to get rid of it.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23403811
> 
> 
> I actually can see it a bit when watching other stuff... so I'd like to get rid of it.



I ran the WOW pixel flipper overnight twice and I have no more IR from the CREATE on the red slide. (or anything else)


I just looked again on the red ,green ,blue ,white and gray. I did not see any IR from my seating position so I got up and looked at the tv from a foot, I noticed a little IR from the chrome browser that I had up while surfing the net. this is so faint but it wasnt there before, I know that I can easily get rid of it with one session of pixel flipper..


i am no longer worried about this IR stuff.. I abuse my TV and nothing has caused hard to remove IR.at this moment I have the contrast up to 90 as well


Run the screen jsscreenfix screen saver if you have your pc hooked up or just the WOW.. its going to be fine. really not an issue.


----------



## DavidHir

I ran the Wow pixel flipper disc for four days straight on my ST30 to remove a very faint History Channel logo. Still no improvement; suggestions at this point?


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DavidHir*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23406296
> 
> 
> I ran the Wow pixel flipper disc for four days straight on my ST30 to remove a very faint History Channel logo. Still no improvement; suggestions at this point?


There really is nothing more you can do besides continuing to run the pixel flipper and not watch that channel. I know sometimes it can take months for something to remove. The problem is one cannot tell the difference if it is burn-in or IR. The only thing to do is to keep trying and just hope one day it gives and disappears. Are you running the pixel flipper with you contrast at 100 and at a bright level?


----------



## AuralSex

I have the VT60 and I just noticed very faint vertical lines about five inches in from both sides of the screen. They are really only apparent in very light scenes. I believe they are due to my wife watching SD content too much with the black bars on either side of the picture while the content is being displayed in 4:3 format. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I can run the screen wipe but I don't know for how long this is recommended and if this will eventually cause these faint vertical lines to go away. I see another setting under picture settings for "pixel orbiter" but this is greyed out so I don't know how to access it or even if it's something that I would want to use for an issue like this.


Any guidance you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I trust this is a case of IR (i.e. it will go away) rather than burn-in which could be permanent. Assuming this can be resolved is there any way to safely watch SD content in the future? Is there a setting that allows SD (i.e. 4:3) content to be "stretched" or otherwise fill the 16:9 screen but not affect native HD 16:9 content so this doesn't happen in the future?


Should I be running screen wipe, pixel orbiter (if I can figure out how to get to this) or just watch only 16:9 content to make this go away?


----------



## Oimagination

I usually zoom in whenever there are black bars. Not sure how to answer your other questions though. If it doesn't go away after a week of watching normal full-screen tv or movies, might want to look into other solutions like the wow disney pixel flipper


----------



## Raikirik

This is going to be quite a question. Can you get IR from leaving individual color slides on for too long? For example if one left gray or green on for a long period of time. They ARE static images soooo..







.


Whoever replies to this is probably going to shake their head a lot haha.


----------



## henry77

I am hoping someone might be able to help me out here. Last July 2012, I purchased a new Panasonic 55 inch ST-50. After almost a year, I have noticed some IR on the lower right hand corner of my TV. I am a bit frustrated because I was under the impression that burn in was not an issue with Plasmas anymore.


When I purchased my TV last July, I did not preform any of the breaking-in techniques I have read recently on the forums here and elsewhere. I did calibrate my custom settings to the settings I read on Cnet and LCD-Plasma review. Cnet calibrations are for watching movies and the other for watching regular televised programs. I also use my TV for gaming on my Xbox 360 and play Battlefield 3 on the game mode on the TV.


So this week I happened to notice IR or burn in. I do not use this TV everyday, but probably at least 4 times a week for gaming or movies. Here is what I have noticed. On the lower right hand side of the screen I see a muddy looking ESPN logo and the ammunition count HUD from Battlefield 3. Now I only notice these when I am watching something that has white or very light colors. If I am watching the Avengers per say, I do not notice the IR. But if I am watching a hockey game on TV, I can notice the IR because of the ice ( ie, it being white ).


I am very unhappy about this ,especially after having my TV for about a year and I am already thinking that my next TV will be an LED/OLED. In the meantime, I do have a warranty plan from the geek squad as I purchased my TV from Best Buy. They will coming out in a week to look at my TV. However, is their anyway to fix this? And will this be a consistent issue? I want to be able to use my TV for gaming, but also do not want to have to worry about IR because of it. Any thoughts or solutions? Thank you.


----------



## henry77

I am hoping someone might be able to help me out here. Last July 2012, I purchased a new Panasonic 55 inch ST-50. After almost a year, I have noticed some IR on the lower right hand corner of my TV. I am a bit frustrated because I was under the impression that burn in was not an issue with Plasmas anymore.


When I purchased my TV last July, I did not preform any of the breaking-in techniques I have read recently on the forums here and elsewhere. I did calibrate my custom settings to the settings I read on Cnet and LCD-Plasma review. Cnet calibrations are for watching movies and the other for watching regular televised programs. I also use my TV for gaming on my Xbox 360 and play Battlefield 3 on the game mode on the TV.


So this week I happened to notice IR or burn in. I do not use this TV everyday, but probably at least 4 times a week for gaming or movies. Here is what I have noticed. On the lower right hand side of the screen I see a muddy looking ESPN logo and the ammunition count HUD from Battlefield 3. Now I only notice these when I am watching something that has white or very light colors. If I am watching the Avengers per say, I do not notice the IR. But if I am watching a hockey game on TV, I can notice the IR because of the ice ( ie, it being white ).


I am very unhappy about this ,especially after having my TV for about a year and I am already thinking that my next TV will be an LED/OLED. In the meantime, I do have a warranty plan from the geek squad as I purchased my TV from Best Buy. They will coming out in a week to look at my TV. However, is their anyway to fix this? And will this be a consistent issue? I want to be able to use my TV for gaming, but also do not want to have to worry about IR because of it. Any thoughts or solutions? Thank you.


----------



## RetroGiant

^^^^Disney Pixel Flipper, watch more full screen content without logos, lower contrast when gaming and watching shows with logos, and most important....just give it time, it will fade.


----------



## DavidHir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23406341
> 
> 
> There really is nothing more you can do besides continuing to run the pixel flipper and not watch that channel. I know sometimes it can take months for something to remove. The problem is one cannot tell the difference if it is burn-in or IR. The only thing to do is to keep trying and just hope one day it gives and disappears. Are you running the pixel flipper with you contrast at 100 and at a bright level?



Yeah contrast at 100...I decided to switch to slides for a few days and see what happens. Not sure it will make a difference at this point. As you said, it could take months to remove and would not be worth it.


----------



## Raikirik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23409477
> 
> 
> ^^^^Disney Pixel Flipper, watch more full screen content without logos, lower contrast when gaming and watching shows with logos, and most important....just give it time, it will fade.



Sound advice. I would definitely lower contrast when gaming.


----------



## AuralSex

Can someone tell me how to activate "pixel orbiter?" On my VT60 it's greyed out. I can run the "screen wipe" feature which moves a white and black bar across the screen but the tab under "Advanced picture settings" for pixel orbiter remains greyed out. And can someone tell me what "Disney Pixel Flipper" is (and how to get it)?


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AuralSex*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23410141
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me how to activate "pixel orbiter?" On my VT60 it's greyed out. I can run the "screen wipe" feature which moves a white and black bar across the screen but the tab under "Advanced picture settings" for pixel orbiter remains greyed out. And can someone tell me what "Disney Pixel Flipper" is (and how to get it)?



For the Disney pixel flipper - you need to get the Disney Wow Blu-ray Disc. Check Amazon..


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23409477
> 
> 
> ^^^^Disney Pixel Flipper, watch more full screen content without logos, lower contrast when gaming and watching shows with logos, and most important....just give it time, it will fade.



Thank you for the feedback. Regarding reduction of contrast for gaming...How low should my contrast be set to? For example, I currently game on the "Game mode" setting which Panasonic recommends for playing vidro games. The factory default settings for Game Mode have contrast set to 100. What should I change the contrast to than?


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23410167
> 
> 
> Thank you for the feedback. Regarding reduction of contrast for gaming...How low should my contrast be set to? For example, I currently game on the "Game mode" setting which Panasonic recommends for playing vidro games. The factory default settings for Game Mode have contrast set to 100. What should I change the contrast to than?


There is no exact science to this and really no right answer. I will say you should not need contrast at 100 and it is really a shame that these companies would set any default at that level. It is like they want you to ruin your TV so you will buy another one.


The best thing to do is when you will be playing something with a static image for a long time to lower the contrast level and brightness to the lowest you can while still enjoying the experience. That can be 50, 60, 70, 80 but should NOT be 100!


There is no guarantee you will not get IR with lower levels but your risk should be less then running it at 100.


----------



## Heywould




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Raikirik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23408958
> 
> 
> This is going to be quite a question. Can you get IR from leaving individual color slides on for too long? For example if one left gray or green on for a long period of time. They ARE static images soooo..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Whoever replies to this is probably going to shake their head a lot haha.



This is not a static image, its a static color with no contrassting colors, thats when you get IR.. it only happens when you have (for me) brighter colors next to less colorful or bright color..


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23410192
> 
> 
> There is no exact science to this and really no right answer. I will say you should not need contrast at 100 and it is really a shame that these companies would set any default at that level. It is like they want you to ruin your TV so you will buy another one.
> 
> 
> The best thing to do is when you will be playing something with a static image for a long time to lower the contrast level and brightness to the lowest you can while still enjoying the experience. That can be 50, 60, 70, 80 but should NOT be 100!
> 
> 
> There is no guarantee you will not get IR with lower levels but your risk should be less then running it at 100.



Thank you. I am going to lower contrast which is a shame because game mode as it is looks great. This is all very frustrating because the picture quality is awesome on the ST50. Had I known that gaming would or could cause IR, I would have probably gone with an LED. The point of buying this TV was to game and watch movies.


I do have Best Buy's Geek Squad coming out next Tuesday to take a look st the TV. Basically they have told me that they give two service calls to fix the TV. If they cannot you essentially get a TV at equal or lesser value.


----------



## Cuda1169

Good point. If I am gaming on my ST50, contrast is set at 70. If I am streaming a movie via my Xbox, I set the panel to my calibrated custom mode.


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23411251
> 
> 
> Good point. If I am gaming on my ST50, contrast is set at 70. If I am streaming a movie via my Xbox, I set the panel to my calibrated custom mode.



Have you had any issues with IR from gaming on the ST50?


----------



## Raikirik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heywould*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23410288
> 
> 
> This is not a static image, its a static color with no contrassting colors, thats when you get IR.. it only happens when you have (for me) brighter colors next to less colorful or bright color..



Thanks again Heywould


----------



## headlesschickens

So I know people use a lot of different things for IR, but from a technical perspective the best thing for IR is going to be the scrolling bar. I'll explain:

-Because of the way plasma works there should be no advantage to using different colors. White means all 3 sub-pixels are firing at full power.

-Technically a full white slide should be the best thing for IR, however this fails to take into account the impact of ABL. A full screen of bright pixels means each individual pixel isn't as bright, so individual pixels are never actually firing at even close to full output. This means full white slides and full screens of static-like noise are going to be less effective than you might think.


So the point of the scrolling white bar is to expose as much of the panel as possible to full white without triggering too much ABL. That's why it's the best possible IR wipe content. The problem is that the IR wipe runs for 15 minutes, which is useless unless you plan to sit and watch the thing, restarting it 3 or 4 times. So I made this 4 minute scrolling bar video you can run on a loop. Tested on my GT50 so I expect it to work on any XX50 or XX60 unit. It does have a slight freeze every 4 minutes when it restarts the video (and it shows the filename for about 4 seconds), but that won't make any difference. Copy it onto a USB drive and play it back using the built-in media player, but make sure you have it on repeat playback mode (press the "OPTION" button on the remote when in the video list to check).


Here's the link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45455626/srollingbar4min.zip 


Let me know if you run into any issues, and be aware that I can't be held responsible for what might happen if your TV's video player crashes (never seen it happen, but anything's possible)







. I also have a 6 second version designed to be played on a loop in VLC, but I assumed this version would be more useful for the majority of users. If you're clever with Windows task scheduling and the on/off timers on the TV you can technically use VLC to automate your IR clearing routine, but it requires you have a PC hooked up and is probably more hassle than it's worth for most people.


----------



## henry77

So I went to Best Buy yesterday and was, speaking to a rep who owns a plasma and games on his Xbox. In the 2 years he has had his plasma. ..he has not had IR that has not gone away. He seems to think I may have a dud, since my ST50 is only a year old.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23411570
> 
> 
> Have you had any issues with IR from gaming on the ST50?



Sorry for my late response. I have had no serious IR issues gaming on my ST50. I don't have a lot time for long gaming sessions and I prefer online multiplayers like CoD and Halo, so I jump in and out of games quickly. I do get IR from from the CoD HUD but it is removed by using the WOW pixel flipper for an hour or so. I just run the pixel flipper overnight twice a month to remove and nuisance IR, though probably once a month would do. Thus far, this has worked for my ST50.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23426038
> 
> 
> So I went to Best Buy yesterday and was, speaking to a rep who owns a plasma and games on his Xbox. In the 2 years he has had his plasma. ..he has not had IR that has not gone away. He seems to think I may have a dud, since my ST50 is only a year old.



I can promise you that every XX50 will do this. Different people have massively different usage patterns which are going to significantly impact how much they notice the IR (and not everyone will actually notice it even if they do get it), but the potential for it is definitely there with these TVs. The main thing that prevents IR from becoming an issue is a varied content cycle; If a decent percentage of the panel's hours are spent on content without static images any existing IR will be wiped on a regular basis, so you won't ever need to worry about it. As you might notice from this thread, posts about how IR is "no problem" on XX50 TVs generally includes statements like "as long as I run X or Y anti-IR content several times a week/month."


I can't say anything about the XX60 models yet... I haven't had a chance to actually test one for IR yet and it's still too early for reports on issues like that to be flowing in. If Best Buy is interested in replacing your set, I'd say it's not worth it unless they're willing to bump you up to one of the 2013 models.


----------



## henry77

Anuote name="Cuda1169" url="/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427125"]

Sorry for my late response. I have had no serious IR issues gaming on my ST50. I don't have a lot time for long gaming sessions and I prefer online multiplayers like CoD and Halo, so I jump in and out of games quickly. I do get IR from from the CoD HUD but it is removed by using the WOW pixel flipper for an hour or so. I just run the pixel flipper overnight twice a month to remove and nuisance IR, though probably once a month would do. Thus far, this has worked for my ST50.[/quote]

And where do I buy the WOW pixel flipper?


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427125
> 
> 
> Sorry for my late response. I have had no serious IR issues gaming on my ST50. I don't have a lot time for long gaming sessions and I prefer online multiplayers like CoD and Halo, so I jump in and out of games quickly. I do get IR from from the CoD HUD but it is removed by using the WOW pixel flipper for an hour or so. I just run the pixel flipper overnight twice a month to remove and nuisance IR, though probably once a month would do. Thus far, this has worked for my ST50.




Where would I buy the WOW pixel flipper?


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427214
> 
> 
> I can promise you that every XX50 will do this. Different people have massively different usage patterns which are going to significantly impact how much they notice the IR (and not everyone will actually notice it even if they do get it), but the potential for it is definitely there with these TVs. The main thing that prevents IR from becoming an issue is a varied content cycle; If a decent percentage of the panel's hours are spent on content without static images any existing IR will be wiped on a regular basis, so you won't ever need to worry about it. As you might notice from this thread, posts about how IR is "no problem" on XX50 TVs generally includes statements like "as long as I run X or Y anti-IR content several times a week/month."
> 
> 
> I can't say anything about the XX60 models yet... I haven't had a chance to actually test one for IR yet and it's still too early for reports on issues like that to be flowing in. If Best Buy is interested in replacing your set, I'd say it's not worth it unless they're willing to bump you up to one of the 2013 models.



Thank you for the feedback. The more and more I read about gaming and IR...The more I am thinking I should go with an LED. Best Buy if they replace my ST50 would replace it with the ST60. However, I can go with another TV too.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427288
> 
> 
> Where would I buy the WOW pixel flipper?



Search for "disney wow" on Amazon. I don't personally think it's worth it for the pixel flipper (explained below) but there is some good self-calibration stuff on that disk.


Personally I'd say save some money and use the scrolling bar... should actually be more effective. People think that video is going to work better because it looks so complex, but there's nothing about different colors and strange static that makes it more effective than a scrolling white bar, which is the most efficient way to exercise the pixels (white in plasma means R, G and B sub-pixels are firing at full power). The key to removing IR quickly is to get the pixels up to their maximum output, which means you want white and you want something that doesn't activate the ABL too much by filling up the whole screen at one time. The engineers always pick a scrolling bar as the built-in IR wipe for a reason.


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427336
> 
> 
> Search for "disney wow" on Amazon. I don't personally think it's worth it for the pixel flipper (explained below) but there is some good self-calibration stuff on that disk.
> 
> 
> Personally I'd say save some money and use the scrolling bar... should actually be more effective. People think that video is going to work better because it looks so complex, but there's nothing about different colors and strange static that makes it more effective than a scrolling white bar, which is the most efficient way to exercise the pixels (white in plasma means R, G and B sub-pixels are firing at full power). The key to removing IR quickly is to get the pixels up to their maximum output, which means you want white and you want something that doesn't activate the ABL too much by filling up the whole screen at one time. The engineers always pick a scrolling bar as the built-in IR wipe for a reason.



My IR is only noticeable when the screen is displaying very light or white colors...For example when I sign onto the Xbox Live dash board you can notice it...I have been using tbe scroll bar and leaving my TV on movies during the day. Now doing this did help a little but didn't remove the IR.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427479
> 
> 
> My IR is only noticeable when the screen is displaying very light or white colors...For example when I sign onto the Xbox Live dash board you can notice it...I have been using tbe scroll bar and leaving my TV on movies during the day. Now doing this did help a little but didn't remove the IR.



Many have used the scroll bar but it quickly times out. Mine is on a 15 minute timer. The WOW pixel flipper will run unitl you stop it so that is my IR removal tool of choice. Try the WOW pixel flipper and run it for a night or two. Some people have need several days usage of the pixel flipper it all depends on the severity of IR. My personal usage is varied though.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23427569
> 
> 
> Many have used the scroll bar but it quickly times out. Mine is on a 15 minute timer.



Depends on the TV. The 2013 Panasonics (S60 and ST60 anyway, and I presume the rest) run forever.


> Quote:
> The WOW pixel flipper will run unitl you stop it so that is my IR removal tool of choice. Try the WOW pixel flipper and run it for a night or two. Some people have need several days usage of the pixel flipper it all depends on the severity of IR. My personal usage is varied though.



Depends on the BD player. The 2013 Sonys (BDP-S5100 anyway, and I presume the rest) time out after 30 minutes or so.


If you can hook up a PC, this message describes how to get a Pixel Flipper equivalent for free:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4350#post_23427479
> 
> 
> My IR is only noticeable when the screen is displaying very light or white colors...For example when I sign onto the Xbox Live dash board you can notice it...I have been using tbe scroll bar and leaving my TV on movies during the day. Now doing this did help a little but didn't remove the IR.



Depending on how long the IR has been forming it could take quite a long time to remove (my calculation is about 2-3 hours for every 1 hour of static image exposure, so if the IR formed from 20 hours of exposure it could take 40-60 hours of normal content to completely erase... I've never allowed IR to get that severe so I can't say if the numbers actually scale up linearly though). I have seen reports of this type of IR essentially becoming permanent, though that's usually a case where the user has put 100's of hours in on a logo channel. This is why I'm trying to recommend to people that they get into doing a regular anti-IR routine before they get something extremely persistent (or worse). If it's getting less severe I'd say there's a really good chance it will eventually go away entirely. And if you can't spot it on real content I'd say it's already in the "don't worry about it" range.


Just want to post this again since there was a mention of the 15 minute limit on the XX50 scrolling bar. This is a 4 minute loop of a nearly identical scrolling bar that I use for IR cleaning on my GT50. If you play it from a USB drive it will loop indefinitely as long as "repeat playback" is on (press the OPTION button when in the video file list). It's likely to be better than the pixel flipper because it uses full white and doesn't significantly trigger ABL. I made it 4 minutes because the video player on the TV will pause for a couple seconds and display the filename each time it starts over. At 4 minutes that brief interruption is so insignificant that it can't possibly impact the wipe process.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45455626/srollingbar4min.zip 

if you don't want a zip for some reason (right click, save as):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45455626/srollingbar4min.mpg


----------



## Cuda1169

I agree with headlesschickens, getting into an IR removal routine is helpful.


----------



## sublimerocks86

I just purchased a Panasonic s60 and it's my first plasma. I'm pretty scared about IR/burn in due to gaming because I tend to enjoy the owner mode of sports games as much as the actual game play.


Is there anyway to avoid it? I play a lot of NHL 13. I'm not seeing anything online about that particular game causing issues...is there anything I can do to avoid IR or should I hope for the best?


I'm much more nervous for when Madden comes out in August since I LOVE owner mode in that game.


I do love it so far though! Should I run that white bar after game play?


Thanks!


----------



## RetroGiant

Drop your contrast down while gaming and then it probably wouldn't hurt to use the white bar after gaming, could just watch full screen movies and what not as well. I wouldn't game for like 5 hours straight with sports games, but you should be fine overall. You very well may see some IR but it will fade. Its so hard to get permanent burn-in nowadays. The main thing is just enjoy your tv and don't go out of your way looking for IR and obsessing over it otherwise you will drive yourself crazy.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23430851
> 
> 
> Depending on how long the IR has been forming it could take quite a long time to remove (my calculation is about 2-3 hours for every 1 hour of static image exposure, so if the IR formed from 20 hours of exposure it could take 40-60 hours of normal content to completely erase... I've never allowed IR to get that severe so I can't say if the numbers actually scale up linearly though). I have seen reports of this type of IR essentially becoming permanent, though that's usually a case where the user has put 100's of hours in on a logo channel. This is why I'm trying to recommend to people that they get into doing a regular anti-IR routine before they get something extremely persistent (or worse). If it's getting less severe I'd say there's a really good chance it will eventually go away entirely. And if you can't spot it on real content I'd say it's already in the "don't worry about it" range.
> 
> 
> Just want to post this again since there was a mention of the 15 minute limit on the XX50 scrolling bar. This is a 4 minute loop of a nearly identical scrolling bar that I use for IR cleaning on my GT50. If you play it from a USB drive it will loop indefinitely as long as "repeat playback" is on (press the OPTION button when in the video file list). It's likely to be better than the pixel flipper because it uses full white and doesn't significantly trigger ABL. I made it 4 minutes because the video player on the TV will pause for a couple seconds and display the filename each time it starts over. At 4 minutes that brief interruption is so insignificant that it can't possibly impact the wipe process.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45455626/srollingbar4min.zip
> 
> if you don't want a zip for some reason (right click, save as):
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45455626/srollingbar4min.mpg



Thanks for the video file, working on my VT50. But, I'm finding an ODD visual. There looks to be some IR on the bottom left, when the white part of the scrolling screen is there, BUT I don't see this when playing any of my simular white screens slides from the same USB stick. I would assume that regardless of a still frame or video file, any IR "images" would be the same and appear, if IR is present on the display? I don't know how you created the video MPG file, though I doubt you creation would or could include any IR from your own display, so I'm wondering what I'm seeing here? Thanks.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23431615
> 
> 
> Thanks for the video file, working on my VT50. But, I'm finding an ODD visual. There looks to be some IR on the bottom left, when the white part of the scrolling screen is there, BUT I don't see this when playing any of my simular white screens slides from the same USB stick. I would assume that regardless of a still frame or video file, any IR "images" would be the same and appear, if IR is present on the display? I don't know how you created the video MPG file, though I doubt you creation would or could include any IR from your own display, so I'm wondering what I'm seeing here? Thanks.


Telling is what exactly you are seeing might help. If it just looks like little dark spots all over or like black dirt that is normal and I have seen that while running screen wipes on other plasma's.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23431735
> 
> 
> Telling is what exactly you are seeing might help. If it just looks like little dark spots all over or like black dirt that is normal and I have seen that while running screen wipes on other plasma's.



No, I'm seeing IR, some light "grey" text" as well as a "play icon" in the middle of the screen. I just ran the VT50's own 15 minute scroller bars, and don't see anything. So, at this point until we here from the author, I suspect he somehow made this video off his own screen, which included his own IR. The video file is certainly darker then the built-in scroller which also has a higher contrast ratio, so I don't believe it would be as effective, even though you can loop it. It's a great idea, but I think it would have to be created properly in a video editing app with proper IRE files, etc. and would be a bit of work. I don't have a computer directly connected to my display so the other work arounds for pixel scrollers is not an option, then again, so far I don't have any IR issues here.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23431758
> 
> 
> No, I'm seeing IR, some light "grey" text" as well as a "play icon" in the middle of the screen. I just ran the VT50's own 15 minute scroller bars, and don't see anything. So, at this point until we here from the author, I suspect he somehow made this video off his own screen, which included his own IR.



That would only be possible if he filmed it, which would be an odd thing to do. As for IR showing up more or less well against various patterns and colors, that's perfectly normal. When I got IR from EPSN's scoreboard during the recent LSU baseball awesomeness, it showed up best against some flashing white bars in the Spears and Munsil 1st ed Contrast pattern. It didn't show up as well on a solid white background. Other IR I've had showed up best on RGB(0,128,0) and not at all on various other solid colors.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23431827
> 
> 
> That would only be possible if he filmed it, which would be an odd thing to do. As for IR showing up more or less well against various patterns and colors, that's perfectly normal. When I got IR from EPSN's scoreboard during the recent LSU baseball awesomeness, it showed up best against some flashing white bars in the Spears and Munsil 1st ed Contrast pattern. It didn't show up as well on a solid white background. Other IR I've had showed up best on RGB(0,128,0) and not at all on various other solid colors.



Anything is possible I guess. I'm sure "headless" will respond. He may have been able to get a video feed out of his display, only he can tell us how he created the video file, or maybe someone can actually run it from a USB stick on a VT50, and look closely. I have a lot of colored slides here, and looking at all of them, don't see any "text" or "play icon" on any screen I can display, so I find it's ODD. Not seeing any IR with the Pany scroller, this custom made scroller is actually playing back a video file, so what one sees on the screen would therefore be a combination of what your display is "displaying", like IR if your set has it, as well as the content of the actual file. The built-in scroller I would assume is a "program", not a video file, and therefore should only be showing what is on the actual display. This is the logic I'm using for now, until I here a better theory. The only IR I see on my display, is when running this video file, and I don't have anything I run here that has a "play icon" in the middle of my screen, that would create IR, the text on the lower left, is a place that normally the "dark" Panasonic remote tips/icons show, for a few seconds, and the text I see does not match any of the Pany screens. Good mystery so far.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23431891
> 
> 
> Anything is possible I guess. I'm sure "headless" will respond. He may have been able to get a video feed out of his display, only he can tell us how he created the video file, or maybe someone can actually run it from a USB stick on a VT50, and look closely. I have a lot of colored slides here, and looking at all of them, don't see any "text" or "play icon" on any screen I can display, so I find it's ODD. Not seeing any IR with the Pany scroller, this custom made scroller is actually playing back a video file, so what one sees on the screen would therefore be a combination of what your display is "displaying", like IR if your set has it, as well as the content of the actual file. The built-in scroller I would assume is a "program", not a video file, and therefore should only be showing what is on the actual display. This is the logic I'm using for now, until I here a better theory. The only IR I see on my display, is when running this video file, and I don't have anything I run here that has a "play icon" in the middle of my screen, that would create IR, the text on the lower left, is a place that normally the "dark" Panasonic remote tips/icons show, for a few seconds, and the text I see does not match any of the Pany screens. Good mystery so far.



I can't imagine how it could be possible that there's specific detail like that in the file... the scrolling bar was created in 3D Studio using infinitely dark and light materials to create the black/white. There could be some MPEG noise in the encoding but the compression shouldn't really have trouble with solid black and white. The only distortions I'm seeing when I run it on my TV are my usual vertical DSE patterns. The only significant difference I can detect between the original and this version is that the built-in scrolling bar uses the "vivid" mode, while I use Custom at a high contrast.


The video definitely isn't darker by the way. The reason it might seem that way is because, as I said, the scrolling bar uses vivid mode. Even compared to Custom at 100 contrast that will seem brighter because of vivid's cool temperature and slightly different driving method. Either way the bar is big enough that it does begin to trigger ABL, so it's impossible for it to be any brighter without being smaller. I tried to replicate the size (and therefore ABL level) of the original as closely as I could, assuming that the engineers had already determined the optimal setup for the IR wipe.


*Edit: Just want to say that I've confirmed that the video does include only full white and full black. Feel free to examine individual frames yourself if you don't believe me.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23432765
> 
> 
> I can't imagine how it could be possible that there's specific detail like that in the file... the scrolling bar was created in 3D Studio using infinitely dark and light materials to create the black/white. There could be some MPEG noise in the encoding but the compression shouldn't really have trouble with solid black and white. The only distortions I'm seeing when I run it on my TV are my usual vertical DSE patterns. The only significant difference I can detect between the original and this version is that the built-in scrolling bar uses the "vivid" mode, while I use Custom at a high contrast.
> 
> 
> The video definitely isn't darker by the way. The reason it might seem that way is because, as I said, the scrolling bar uses vivid mode. Even compared to Custom at 100 contrast that will seem brighter because of vivid's cool temperature and slightly different driving method. Either way the bar is big enough that it does begin to trigger ABL, so it's impossible for it to be any brighter without being smaller. I tried to replicate the size (and therefore ABL level) of the original as closely as I could, assuming that the engineers had already determined the optimal setup for the IR wipe.
> 
> 
> *Edit: Just want to say that I've confirmed that the video does include only full white and full black. Feel free to examine individual frames yourself if you don't believe me.



Thanks for the response. I did NOT know the built-in scroller bars used "Vivid" mode, so that's why your video file appeared darker, I will change modes when running your file to "Vivid", from my normal custom D-Nice mode. I'm not sure if you mentioned that in the first post where when you announced your upload?


Also, thanks for the info on how you created the file, obviously you could not have picked up IR in 3D studio, so I have a true mystery here. While the IR stuff I can see when running your file, is not disturbing me, NOT knowing why I can't see it in any other test materials I have at hand, which are the original D-Nice "break-in slides" as well as some other colored/grey/white JPEGS, a decent set of graded materials, from very light to dark, I would think I would be able to see some trace of the same IR I see when running your video. Now that you have informed me of the VIVID mode being used on the "Pany Scroller", that might account for NOT seeing this IR stuff, as in that torch mode, it most likely washes out the evidence, the IR stuff I'm talking about is, very faint, but still noticeable to my now older eyes, even from 10 feet, so it is visible. So, if we rule out, any IR being present in your video, and I certainly believe you and the technique you used, then I am at a loss to explain why I can't duplicate seeing it any other way. It's not going to kill me, though like most here, love to eventually solve "mysteries" when possible. My next move will be to try the S&M v.2 Blue Ray test disk, I bought but have not had time to get into. I'll see what screen patterns are on there. Anyways, THANKS for the video creation, and your followup, I didn't write to cast dispersion on your work, just reporting what I am seeing here, which sure is ODD.










TO ADD: I can't look at individual frames as when running from a USB stick, the Pany does not allow me to put the video in pause mode, which I thought was odd. And on my Mac, in both QuickTime 7 and QuickTime 10, the video file only shows me a black screen, which confused me as well, as QT should not have an issue displaying an "MPG" file. I'll have to try some other software here, maybe VLC.


----------



## SkiFor3

I ran the video file using VLC on my PC to see if I could see anything. I paused the video as the white bar was on the left side of the screen. After close observation I see no indications of IR but have determined I have a fairly dirty monitor screen. I will try it on my UT50 later.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23432857
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. I did NOT know the built-in scroller bars used "Vivid" mode, so that's why your video file appeared darker, I will change modes when running your file to "Vivid", from my normal custom D-Nice mode. I'm not sure if you mentioned that in the first post where when you announced your upload?



You're right, I did forget to mention that. I'm not sure if you actually need to run it in vivid mode (Custom at 100 contrast might be just as bright and seem darker because it's less blue), but this is another case where I'm going to assume the engineers set it up the way they did for a reason.


> Quote:
> Also, thanks for the info on how you created the file, obviously you could not have picked up IR in 3D studio, so I have a true mystery here. While the IR stuff I can see when running your file, is not disturbing me, NOT knowing why I can't see it in any other test materials I have at hand, which are the original D-Nice "break-in slides" as well as some other colored/grey/white JPEGS, a decent set of graded materials, from very light to dark, I would think I would be able to see some trace of the same IR I see when running your video. Now that you have informed me of the VIVID mode being used on the "Pany Scroller", that might account for NOT seeing this IR stuff, as in that torch mode, it most likely washes out the evidence, the IR stuff I'm talking about is, very faint, but still noticeable to my now older eyes, even from 10 feet, so it is visible. So, if we rule out, any IR being present in your video, and I certainly believe you and the technique you used, then I am at a loss to explain why I can't duplicate seeing it any other way. It's not going to kill me, though like most here, love to eventually solve "mysteries" when possible. My next move will be to try the S&M v.2 Blue Ray test disk, I bought but have not had time to get into. I'll see what screen patterns are on there. Anyways, THANKS for the video creation, and your followup, I didn't write to cast dispersion on your work, just reporting what I am seeing here, which sure is ODD.



Totally understand, I'd be doing the same thing if I'd downloaded someone else's video. I've actually had a few mystery IR cases myself, and one of the things I've learned is that different kinds of IR may only show up under very specific circumstances. Really severe IR will show up almost anywhere, but the more minor kinds may only appear against very specific colors and brightness levels. My first guess would be that someone else has been using the TV when you're not around (that play button in the middle makes me think YouTube videos or something like that), but obviously you know whether that's even a possibility. I suppose it's also possible that you have some really oddly specific DSE... a few of my DSE patterns almost look like they could be residual imprints of text. Of course if you can read the text or the triangle is really sharply defined that's unlikely. Whatever caused it, hopefully it'll fade out completely since it's so subtle already.


> Quote:
> TO ADD: I can't look at individual frames as when running from a USB stick, the Pany does not allow me to put the video in pause mode, which I thought was odd. And on my Mac, in both QuickTime 7 and QuickTime 10, the video file only shows me a black screen, which confused me as well, as QT should not have an issue displaying an "MPG" file. I'll have to try some other software here, maybe VLC.



I had more trouble than I expected getting a video file that would play on the built-in video player. The original H.264 version I created, which worked great on every computer player I tried (QuickTime, WMP, VLC), wouldn't play from the Media Player. The only version that ended up working was done with an MPEG-2 encoder, however it also produced a video that you can't pause or FF/RW, and that some video players can't handle. I probably need to get some better conversion software and see if I can make an H.264 version that will actually play... The resulting file is way smaller and causes less trouble with common video software. Anyway, I know it works with VLC and I did get it to load with the QT plugin from Safari (just clicked the MPG download link and it opened in a player plugin window).


----------



## Mactavish

Thanks again, well we know it's not the video file, so I'll just search for some "light" content to track my IR down.


JUST A NOTE: I was able to view the video in VLC, but I tried clicking the link in Safari 5.1.9, and just get the same black window I see in both my versions of QuickTime, I do have Perian 1.2.3 installed as well as FlipForMac WMV safari plug-in, but that's for Windows Media movies to play in Safari. If you end up being able to create an H264 "MP4" version, and want someone to test it remotely, let me know. THANKS!


As I'm sure you are aware, from page 111 of the VT50 manual:


Media player Data information - Compatible Data format:


SD-Video files (SD-Video Standard Ver.1.31) Modified data with a PC may not be displayed correctly.

AVCHD files AVCHD Standard Ver.2.0 (AVCHD 3D, AVCHD Progressive) Modified data with a PC may not be displayed correctly.

MotionJPEG files (taken with LUMIX)*

MP4 files Video codec H.264/MPEG1/MPEG2 Audio codec MPEG Audio/MP3/AAC/HE-AAC/AC3/E-AC3

MKV files Video codec H.264/MPEG1/MPEG2 Audio codec MPEG Audio/MP3/AAC/HE-AAC/AC3/E-AC3

FLV files Video codec H.264 Audio codec MP3/AAC

3GPP files Video codec H.264/MPEG1/MPEG2 Audio codec AAC/HE-AAC

PS files Video codec H.264*/MPEG1/MPEG2 Audio codec MPEG Audio/MP3*/AAC*/HE-AAC*/AC3/ E-AC3*/LPCM

TS files Video codec H.264/MPEG1/MPEG2 Audio codec MPEG Audio/MP3*/AAC/HE-AAC/AC3/E-AC3


----------



## SkiFor3

I ran the video on my UT50. I did see some temporary IR in the bottom left corner from my TV's media player menu but it soon resolved. This model is pretty sensitive to IR. I initially had reservations about keeping this TV but it appears to be manageable. I've got the pixel flipper as well so have a couple of options now to help. thanks for the video.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23432765
> 
> 
> I can't imagine how it could be possible that there's specific detail like that in the file... the scrolling bar was created in 3D Studio using infinitely dark and light materials to create the black/white. There could be some MPEG noise in the encoding but the compression shouldn't really have trouble with solid black and white. The only distortions I'm seeing when I run it on my TV are my usual vertical DSE patterns. The only significant difference I can detect between the original and this version is that the built-in scrolling bar uses the "vivid" mode, while I use Custom at a high contrast.
> 
> 
> The video definitely isn't darker by the way. The reason it might seem that way is because, as I said, the scrolling bar uses vivid mode. Even compared to Custom at 100 contrast that will seem brighter because of vivid's cool temperature and slightly different driving method. Either way the bar is big enough that it does begin to trigger ABL, so it's impossible for it to be any brighter without being smaller. I tried to replicate the size (and therefore ABL level) of the original as closely as I could, assuming that the engineers had already determined the optimal setup for the IR wipe.
> 
> 
> *Edit: Just want to say that I've confirmed that the video does include only full white and full black. Feel free to examine individual frames yourself if you don't believe me.



Thanks headlesschickens. I'll continue to use the pixel flipper but it will be nice to have this in my arsenal as well.


----------



## Crisis892000

Hi all. I am very excited to join this forum! I wish I had known about it a few months ago when I bought my first Plasma.


I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-55UT50, brand new, back in late February of 2013. At the time, I took very careful precautions to not abuse the display (I primarily watch movies and TV, not games), so I stuck with true 16:9 content and was very careful to use the anti-image retention scrolling bar for the first few months. The only thing I didn't do was keep my contrast level down below 50. It was at 89 because I calibrated it to CNET standards, but still, from March to June, I had no issues. Brightness was set to 48.


A couple of weeks ago, my wife moved back home after completing an out-of-state degree. She had a couple of weeks off, and discovered the joys of my Hulu plus account. While I was at work, she indulged heavily on South Park, The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report, sometimes watching 3-4 hours of Comedy Central content a day and not using the scrolling bar. Luckily Hulu broke up the content with ads, and when I came home in the evenings, I watched a heave amount of 16:9 content on blu-ray.


A couple of days ago, I noticed the Comedy Central logo ghosting on the TV in the bottom right hand corner and it has yet to go away. I have read heavily about how best to deal with this, but would like to hear first hand. First of all, do you think this is something that will eventually go away with this model? Are we talking heavy, heavy image retention or irreversible burn in? If it will go away, are we talking about days, weeks, or months? How best should I tackle this? Should I keep 16:9 blu-rays playing all day while I am at work? Or download solid color slides and play them on loop? Or leave the TV off during the day and just watch my normal content?


Any and all thoughts are great. Thanks a lot! I look forward to participating on this forum.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crisis892000*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23443348
> 
> 
> Hi all. I am very excited to join this forum! I wish I had known about it a few months ago when I bought my first Plasma.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-55UT50, brand new, back in late February of 2013. At the time, I took very careful precautions to not abuse the display (I primarily watch movies and TV, not games), so I stuck with true 16:9 content and was very careful to use the anti-image retention scrolling bar for the first few months. The only thing I didn't do was keep my contrast level down below 50. It was at 89 because I calibrated it to CNET standards, but still, from March to June, I had no issues. Brightness was set to 48.
> 
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, my wife moved back home after completing an out-of-state degree. She had a couple of weeks off, and discovered the joys of my Hulu plus account. While I was at work, she indulged heavily on South Park, The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report, sometimes watching 3-4 hours of Comedy Central content a day and not using the scrolling bar. Luckily Hulu broke up the content with ads, and when I came home in the evenings, I watched a heave amount of 16:9 content on blu-ray.
> 
> 
> A couple of days ago, I noticed the Comedy Central logo ghosting on the TV in the bottom right hand corner and it has yet to go away. I have read heavily about how best to deal with this, but would like to hear first hand. First of all, do you think this is something that will eventually go away with this model? Are we talking heavy, heavy image retention or irreversible burn in? If it will go away, are we talking about days, weeks, or months? How best should I tackle this? Should I keep 16:9 blu-rays playing all day while I am at work? Or download solid color slides and play them on loop? Or leave the TV off during the day and just watch my normal content?
> 
> 
> Any and all thoughts are great. Thanks a lot! I look forward to participating on this forum.



Run the pixel flipper overnight from the Disney Wow BD, that should get rid of it..


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23443682
> 
> 
> Run the pixel flipper overnight from the Disney Wow BD, that should get rid of it..


This is you best option to hopefully get rid of it but no guarantees. No one can tell you if it will go away or how long it will take. Every situation is different and that is what makes this issue with plasmas so frustrating.


Also, you should not have to run your TV at a contrast level below 50 to enjoy it. Especially for normal TV viewing. If higher contrast levels are not safe then these companies should not allow the levels to be that high. If it is there then I should be able to use it.


It always has me wondering why plasmas have a vivid mode. They should just rename it burn in mode with a warning if people use it. Then the funny thing is their warranties don't cover the damage. They say it is your fault because the way you used the TV.


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23443682
> 
> 
> Run the pixel flipper overnight from the Disney Wow BD, that should get rid of it..



Unless you have one of the newer Sony model players (like I do - Model# BDP-S5100) which will not let you loop it.


----------



## Crisis892000

Thanks you guys for your responses!


I know every situation is different. I was curious what other people have experienced in the past. I have heard things ranging from "If it lasts more than a day, it's irreversable burn-in," to "Sometimes my image retention lasts for months."


I currently do not own the World of Wonder blu ray. There are three versions of it on Amazon. Will they all contain the pixel-flipper?


Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Wow-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371666253&sr=8-1&keywords=disney+wow+blu-ray


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crisis892000*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23445261
> 
> 
> Thanks you guys for your responses!
> 
> 
> I know every situation is different. I was curious what other people have experienced in the past. I have heard things ranging from "If it lasts more than a day, it's irreversable burn-in," to "Sometimes my image retention lasts for months."
> 
> 
> I currently do not own the World of Wonder blu ray. There are three versions of it on Amazon. Will they all contain the pixel-flipper?
> 
> 
> Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Wow-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371666253&sr=8-1&keywords=disney+wow+blu-ray


The 2012 single disc is fine.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23444446
> 
> 
> Unless you have one of the newer Sony model players (like I do - Model# BDP-S5100) which will not let you loop it.



Really ??










There's a loop involved here ?? I just press play and it goes until I stop it, no looping, it just plays !




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crisis892000*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23445261
> 
> 
> Thanks you guys for your responses!
> 
> 
> I know every situation is different. I was curious what other people have experienced in the past. I have heard things ranging from "If it lasts more than a day, it's irreversable burn-in," to "Sometimes my image retention lasts for months."
> 
> 
> I currently do not own the World of Wonder blu ray. There are three versions of it on Amazon. Will they all contain the pixel-flipper?
> 
> 
> Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Wow-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371666253&sr=8-1&keywords=disney+wow+blu-ray



Single disc is more than fine, great investment imo. The second disc is just fluff


----------



## tripleM

I just got the Panny 60ST60 & the menus are overwhelming to say the least.

Anyhow, am about to run D-NICE slides once I finally figured out the easy way with the darn remote USB button vs. searching high & low in the menu. HAHA.

*Question:*

Do I just plug the USB thumb drive in & hit the USB remote button & leave the TV on for 100+ hours?


Or do I need to do something else in addition to that?


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23445933
> 
> 
> I just got the Panny 60ST60 & the menus are overwhelming to say the least.
> 
> Anyhow, am about to run D-NICE slides once I finally figured out the easy way with the darn remote USB button vs. searching high & low in the menu. HAHA.
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> Do I just plug the USB thumb drive in & hit the USB remote button & leave the TV on for 100+ hours?
> 
> 
> Or do I need to do something else in addition to that?



Look at post #1 from D-Nice in the 2013 settings thread, it explains all of the options you have to manually change BEFORE running the slides for 100 hours or so.


----------



## tripleM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23447126
> 
> 
> Look at post #1 from D-Nice in the 2013 settings thread, it explains all of the options you have to manually change BEFORE running the slides for 100 hours or so.



Thanks. It looks like I leave everything as is under Picture Mode: Custom

***Leave all settings at their default*** & Display Interval: Long.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tripleM*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23447280
> 
> 
> Thanks. It looks like I leave everything as is under Picture Mode: Custom
> 
> ***Leave all settings at their default*** & Display Interval: Long.



Exactly, you got it


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23445590
> 
> 
> Really ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a loop involved here ?? I just press play and it goes until I stop it, no looping, it just plays !



Not for me, it times out after about 15 or 20 minutes, I was hoping that there is a feature I'm not aware off which can be turned on/off to allow it run until it's manually shut off.


It runs like a movie would, once the time of the clip is up, it goes off.


----------



## Mactavish

You have to select "REPEAT", I forget which button accesses the slide show settings on the remote, but it's all covered in the manual.


UPDATE: Just looked, on the VT50 remote: BUTTON = OPTIONS, then select "SLIDESHOW", then turn ON = REPEAT


----------



## SkiFor3

For those who don't have the Disney WOW disc for the pixel flipper: Groupon has a good deal on it right now.

http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-disney-wow-world-of-wonder-blu-ray


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkiFor3*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23451048
> 
> 
> For those who don't have the Disney WOW disc for the pixel flipper: Groupon has a good deal on it right now.
> 
> http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-disney-wow-world-of-wonder-blu-ray



Good find, can't beat that price


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23450539
> 
> 
> You have to select "REPEAT", I forget which button accesses the slide show settings on the remote, but it's all covered in the manual.
> 
> 
> UPDATE: Just looked, on the VT50 remote: BUTTON = OPTIONS, then select "SLIDESHOW", then turn ON = REPEAT



So it's the TV which cuts the signal from the DVD? Not a stop of signal from the player?


If that's the case, then that's great news, I'll try it tonight, thank you!


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23452246
> 
> 
> So it's the TV which cuts the signal from the DVD? Not a stop of signal from the player?
> 
> 
> If that's the case, then that's great news, I'll try it tonight, thank you!



Blu_One, was asking about running the DNice "SLIDESHOW', off a USB memory stick, that's what those settings are for, NOT a DVD player.


----------



## ElectroMike

You got my hopes up, but thanks for the clarification!










Back to the drawing board.


----------



## SkiFor3

is it possible there are different versions of the WOW disc? I don't have any problems running the pixel flipper continuously. it says to push the ok button to start it and push it again to stop it. it just runs until I stop it.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SkiFor3*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23453324
> 
> 
> is it possible there are different versions of the WOW disc? I don't have any problems running the pixel flipper continuously. it says to push the ok button to start it and push it again to stop it. it just runs until I stop it.



It's the BD player. The 2013 Sonys (BDP-S5100 anyway, and I presume the rest) time out after 30 minutes or so. OTOH, my 2008 BDP-S350 will run it forever. (Thanks, Obama.)


If you can hook up a PC, this message describes how to get a Pixel Flipper equivalent that will run forever for free:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23453353
> 
> 
> It's the BD player. The 2013 Sonys (BDP-S5100 anyway, and I presume the rest) time out after 30 minutes or so. OTOH, my 2008 BDP-S350 will run it forever. (Thanks, Obama.)
> 
> 
> If you can hook up a PC, this message describes how to get a Pixel Flipper equivalent that will run forever for free:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469



Thanks for this info, I'll try the PC route!


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23452322
> 
> 
> Blu_One, was asking about running the DNice "SLIDESHOW', off a USB memory stick, that's what those settings are for, NOT a DVD player.



No actually that was another issue. In this case here I was referring to playing the pixel flipper from the WoW disc in a BD player..


----------



## Oimagination

The WoW pixel flipper does seem to be having some effect on the IR on my TV. After running it for about 40 hours (not straight - sporadically throughout the last week or two) the IR seems to have faded a bit. Not completely gone yet though, but I'm pretty sure it's faded.


----------



## olyteddy

Have any of you Plasma owners considered the cost of electricity to remove IR?


> Quote:
> After running it for about 40 hours...


Seems a typical run. Sometimes 100 hours or more is called for!

I pay $.11 per KWH, and assuming 100 Watt power consumption it adds up pretty quick. The 40 hour run would cost me 44 cents, the 100 hour run so often suggested over a dollar. Do that a couple times a month and it adds up to a decent chunk of change...


----------



## smurraybhm

Sorry for how this might sound - you invest a thousand or more in a display and you are complaining about $20 year - assumes you run the screen wipe for 100 hours a month. Which is something I have never done more than for maybe 30 hours a year since owning various plasmas since 2004 - after getting a few hundred hours on the panel before calibration. I can save that by packing a lunch just 3 times a year. Posts about energy consumption and its cost when talking about such small amounts make me scratch my head in disbelief.. Set your thermostat up (or down in the winter) a degree or two and save hundreds. Complaining about the cost of operating your plasma - absurd. Remember I said sorry.


----------



## Oimagination

Yeah. In addition to that, I can't really imagine a situation where someone would need to run something like the wow pixel flipper for 100 hours a month. I don't plan on ever letting my plasma get persistent IR like this ever again, let alone every month.


----------



## Blu_One

People tend to hold on to old opinions about plasma displays.. in 2013, if you have enough $$ to buy yourself a flat screen, you shouldn't be worrying about electricity consumption for ONE residential plasma set.


Forget LCD/LED, go plasma and you'll never look back.. best $20/year ever invested here


----------



## Oimagination

Plasmas seem to be cheaper than LCD's now anyways. My u50 was only $599 Canadian. To get a LCD of similar size and quality it would be much more I think.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23460372
> 
> 
> Plasmas seem to be cheaper than LCD's now anyways. My u50 was only $599 Canadian. To get a LCD of similar size and quality it would be much more I think.



How big for 599 ?


----------



## Oimagination

50" was $599. i think that was the smallest size. they also had a 60" but i didn't check the price.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23460410
> 
> 
> 50" was $599. i think that was the smallest size. they also had a 60" but i didn't check the price.



Wow great deal for a 50" Panasonic ! Considering we're in Canada.. Americans are probably laughing at us right now


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23460067
> 
> 
> Have any of you Plasma owners considered the cost of electricity to remove IR?
> 
> Seems a typical run. Sometimes 100 hours or more is called for!
> 
> I pay $.11 per KWH, and assuming 100 Watt power consumption it adds up pretty quick. The 40 hour run would cost me 44 cents, the 100 hour run so often suggested over a dollar. Do that a couple times a month and it adds up to a decent chunk of change...



Your scenario literally adds up to "a couple dollars" using the figured you brought to the discussion.


But seriously, the 100 hours you hear thrown around is a "break in" period (break in periods for anything other than calibration are nonsense, by the way). I would say something in the range of 40 hours a month of anti-IR content should be sufficient for the standard multi-purpose user (some games, some logo channels, some fully dynamic content about evenly mixed), and even for the more IR-prone user (majority of time on games, logo channels, etc) 100 hours total per month would probably still be more than sufficient. So in that scenario your IR management routine adds $6-$12 per year to your power bill (using your numbers).



On a totally unrelated note, since this is the IR thread I thought I'd repost this really encouraging comment about IR performance on the VT60. It comes from a GT50 owner who's apparently very familiar with how IR-prone the 2012 sets are. Well, encouraging if you were thinking about buying a VT60 anyway.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan134*  /t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-...hread-no-street-price-talk/2700#post_23438335
> 
> 
> The 60 series have very little image retention. I got caught up in a 2 hour session of Geomtry Wars 2 , which has a bright green HUD with scores, etc. after using the set for ten or so hours. Using the pixel sweeper, I noticed some mild image retention but when I came back to the set five minutes later it was totally gone. On the GT50, even after 1000 hours of use, I would have still had mild IR after two or three hours of pixel sweep/mixed content. Long story short: this is an amazing gaming set.



I personally doubt this applies to the ST60 and lower sets, but that's entirely my own hypothesis based on what I've heard so far (some ST60 IR reports) and what the insider at the other forum said about MgO (the new panels with the red phosphor don't use MgO anymore for whatever reason. The others, ST60 and lower, still do).


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oimagination*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23460280
> 
> 
> Yeah. In addition to that, I can't really imagine a situation where someone would need to run something like the wow pixel flipper for 100 hours a month. I don't plan on ever letting my plasma get persistent IR like this ever again, let alone every month.


I don't think the difference in price to run a plasma over an LED should even come into consideration when choosing a TV because to run a plasma each month is probably less then 1 Starbucks Venti Caramel Machiotto. What I would take into consideration is when your TV influences your viewing habits and you cannot watch what you want, when you want.


----------



## ElectroMike

To add another helpful way to lighten up IR, since I have a Sony blu-ray player, which does not allow me to run the pixel-popper wow disc for more than a 30min clip, I picked up the Avatar movie (bluray dvd) and since it's long, over 2 1/2 hours, with a great variety of constantly changing colors, it "almost" got rid of one of my IR logos to a point where I had a hard time finding it on a white screen! I think that for me, running this movie may be a better long term solution over the black/white bars and the wow disc.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23460968
> 
> 
> To add another helpful way to lighten up IR, since I have a Sony blu-ray player, which does not allow me to run the pixel-popper wow disc for more than a 30min clip, I picked up the Avatar movie (bluray dvd) and since it's long, over 2 1/2 hours, with a great variety of constantly changing colors, it "almost" got rid of one of my IR logos to a point where I had a hard time finding it on a white screen! I think that for me, running this movie may be a better long term solution over the black/white bars and the wow disc.



Wow (







) great idea Mike, smart man !


----------



## RetroGiant

For those of you with the Disney WoW bluray, when you run the pixel flipper do you put it in vivid or just leave it on whatever setting you normally watch in? Does the color temp or sharpness matter or just brightness and contrast?


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23467591
> 
> 
> For those of you with the Disney WoW bluray, when you run the pixel flipper do you put it in vivid or just leave it on whatever setting you normally watch in? Does the color temp or sharpness matter or just brightness and contrast?



I don't change any settings at all..


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23468036
> 
> 
> I don't change any settings at all..



Likewise, I don't bother changing my calibrated settings. I just pop in the disk and run the pixel flipper. I run mine overnight biweekly as an IR preventative measure.


----------



## Crisis892000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crisis892000*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4380#post_23443348
> 
> 
> Hi all. I am very excited to join this forum! I wish I had known about it a few months ago when I bought my first Plasma.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-55UT50, brand new, back in late February of 2013. At the time, I took very careful precautions to not abuse the display (I primarily watch movies and TV, not games), so I stuck with true 16:9 content and was very careful to use the anti-image retention scrolling bar for the first few months. The only thing I didn't do was keep my contrast level down below 50. It was at 89 because I calibrated it to CNET standards, but still, from March to June, I had no issues. Brightness was set to 48.
> 
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, my wife moved back home after completing an out-of-state degree. She had a couple of weeks off, and discovered the joys of my Hulu plus account. While I was at work, she indulged heavily on South Park, The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report, sometimes watching 3-4 hours of Comedy Central content a day and not using the scrolling bar. Luckily Hulu broke up the content with ads, and when I came home in the evenings, I watched a heave amount of 16:9 content on blu-ray.
> 
> 
> A couple of days ago, I noticed the Comedy Central logo ghosting on the TV in the bottom right hand corner and it has yet to go away. I have read heavily about how best to deal with this, but would like to hear first hand. First of all, do you think this is something that will eventually go away with this model? Are we talking heavy, heavy image retention or irreversible burn in? If it will go away, are we talking about days, weeks, or months? How best should I tackle this? Should I keep 16:9 blu-rays playing all day while I am at work? Or download solid color slides and play them on loop? Or leave the TV off during the day and just watch my normal content?
> 
> 
> Any and all thoughts are great. Thanks a lot! I look forward to participating on this forum.


UPDATE: I have played the Pixel Flipper nightly (and sometimes during work hours) every day for a week. I saw major improvement during the first two or three nights, but it has slowed considerably. Some days it looks like it's doing better, and some days it has little progress. Luckily, the Comedy Central logo can't be seen most times, only when the grey scale is very, very light. But it is still noticeable when I put an entirely white background behind it.


This may be as good as it gets, and if so, I can live with that. But I was wondering three things:


1) What is the longest any of you have gone with image retention and it has gone away completely? I've heard some posts say months, and some posts say it won't go away ever if it lasts longer than a week, and an earlier post on this thread say roughly 3-4 hours per hour of content.


2) With the Pixel Flipper, do you think I would have more luck if I turned the brightness and contrast all the way up? Contrast is currently at 89, Brightness is at 48.


3) The past two weeks we have been completely off of Comedy Central. If we want to resume watching Comedy Central (albeit, one episode of something a night, then run the pixel flipper), do you think even that short amount of time will push it over the edge into permanent burn in?


Thanks!


----------



## Glenee

I was just informed on another thread that the use of Orbiter's, Pixel shifters and other anti IR systems built into most Plasmas. Does no more than spread or smear the IR. Anyone here ever heard of this ? I have always used in on every Plasma I have ever owned when it was available on a Display.

Just seeking Info.

I have always aged my plasma displays for about 150-200 Hours and usually on the hot side. My plasmas have always looked good and uniformed from edge to edge the entire time that I owned them.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Glenee*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23477827
> 
> 
> I was just informed on another thread that the use of Orbiter's, Pixel shifters and other anti IR systems built into most Plasmas. Does no more than spread or smear the IR. Anyone here ever heard of this ? I have always used in on every Plasma I have ever owned when it was available on a Display.
> 
> Just seeking Info.
> 
> I have always aged my plasma displays for about 150-200 Hours and usually on the hot side. My plasmas have always looked good and uniformed from edge to edge the entire time that I owned them.



Maybe that's why most think the pixel flipper from the WoW disc to be most effective vs. built in ones into devices.


----------



## waylo88

I'm running the break-in slides from the first post. On my Samsung, it flashes a little loading window in the top right for roughly one second in-between slides. Is it okay to continue running them, or will that little window flashing for a second every four or five seconds be a problem? It's currently set to cycle them as fast as possible, so I could slow it down so the loading window flashes less often (slowest speed switches roughly every nine seconds).


----------



## slowbird

I wonder if anyone here can help me.


I got a Plasma Panasonic TC-P50U50 in the beginning of this year. Using this great forum I got slides and ran then regularly.

I noticed immediately after buying the TV the IR was really bad. Netflix loading screens would stick around for a few minutes before going away.

Skip to 4 months later, I played an XBox game for a couple hours and again the next day only to find I now have a Burned in Circle (the game radar) burned into the lower left of the screen. It's faint but I can see it when that section is white.


So far no slides, image retention scrolling bars, or the past 2 days of watching regular stuff has made it go away.


Will it ever go away?


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowbird*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23478049
> 
> 
> I wonder if anyone here can help me.
> 
> 
> I got a Plasma Panasonic TC-P50U50 in the beginning of this year. Using this great forum I got slides and ran then regularly.
> 
> I noticed immediately after buying the TV the IR was really bad. Netflix loading screens would stick around for a few minutes before going away.
> 
> Skip to 4 months later, I played an XBox game for a couple hours and again the next day only to find I now have a Burned in Circle (the game radar) burned into the lower left of the screen. It's faint but I can see it when that section is white.
> 
> 
> So far no slides, image retention scrolling bars, or the past 2 days of watching regular stuff has made it go away.
> 
> 
> Will it ever go away?


Just use Pixel Jogger mp4 on the tv usb mediaplayer, let it play continuously repeat for 24+hr with Contrast=Max and Brightness=Min.

Don't need to let IR totally dissappear to use the tv further, just use Pixel Jogger everytime for few minutes to warmup the tv and between gaming sessions/breaks every (half) hour or so.

Download Pixel Jogger Pinknoise 10min.mp4:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/inwvay 

Uncheck "[ ] Download with sendspace accelerator and get recommended offers." to download the mp4 video directly.


For various Pixel Jogger versions, samples and download links see youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/bwon2k10/videos 

Google Pixel Jogger for more Info:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer 


---

Be careful running the holy dnice slides at max contrast, these aren't just a coincidence anymore:

post #6594
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450484/official-panasonic-tc-pxxst60-series-thread/6570#post_23471452 

post #6657
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450484/official-panasonic-tc-pxxst60-series-thread/6630#post_23482059 

post #6665
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450484/official-panasonic-tc-pxxst60-series-thread/6660#post_23482607


----------



## slowbird

Thanks for the advice. I used slides but to be honest I had no idea the IR was gonna be this bad. Everyone I spoke to said Burn In was a thing of the past but that little HUD isn't going away.


So I can still play games but I have to take breaks to run the pixel jogger, slides, or scrolling bars every so often to prevent burn in?


----------



## waylo88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *waylo88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23478039
> 
> 
> I'm running the break-in slides from the first post. On my Samsung, it flashes a little loading window in the top right for roughly one second in-between slides. Is it okay to continue running them, or will that little window flashing for a second every four or five seconds be a problem? It's currently set to cycle them as fast as possible, so I could slow it down so the loading window flashes less often (slowest speed switches roughly every nine seconds).



Bump. Can anyone help me out here?


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crisis892000*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4410#post_23474546
> 
> 
> UPDATE: I have played the Pixel Flipper nightly (and sometimes during work hours) every day for a week. I saw major improvement during the first two or three nights, but it has slowed considerably. Some days it looks like it's doing better, and some days it has little progress. Luckily, the Comedy Central logo can't be seen most times, only when the grey scale is very, very light. But it is still noticeable when I put an entirely white background behind it.
> 
> 
> This may be as good as it gets, and if so, I can live with that. But I was wondering three things:
> 
> 
> 1) What is the longest any of you have gone with image retention and it has gone away completely? I've heard some posts say months, and some posts say it won't go away ever if it lasts longer than a week, and an earlier post on this thread say roughly 3-4 hours per hour of content.
> 
> 
> 2) With the Pixel Flipper, do you think I would have more luck if I turned the brightness and contrast all the way up? Contrast is currently at 89, Brightness is at 48.
> 
> 
> 3) The past two weeks we have been completely off of Comedy Central. If we want to resume watching Comedy Central (albeit, one episode of something a night, then run the pixel flipper), do you think even that short amount of time will push it over the edge into permanent burn in?
> 
> 
> Thanks!




I have the FoxNews logo stuck on my GT50 too... Great questions and I'm looking forward to reading responses to your post. My guess is that we both have stubborn IR, but damn it, I've been running screen washes for hours and the ghosting is still there! Very frustrating.


I have the Best Buy Geek Squad Extended Warranty and its going to be serviced by Advisory TV here in the NY area. Let's see how good their promise is to replace the panel is.


----------



## Glenee

I had the FoxNews Logo on one of the Plasma's that IR or Burn-In was not supposed to be a problem any more. That's one of the reason I can never believe or even begin to listen to any one that says IR and Burn-In is a thing of the past. It's still there and it still happens PERIOD. Took me about 3 months of good hard work to finally get it where it wasn't noticeable.

Plenty of slide running and screen washing along with some Animated movies with the color jacked up and I could still see it when I gave it to my Son.

I still purchase and own a Plasma Display, I just don't listen or even begin to believe that it don't happen anymore. I'm alot more careful than the average owner.

I 'm not Badgering Plasma's or their owners as a matter of fact I just purchased the new Samsung PN51F8500 3-day's ago.

Just be careful and know that it does and always will be a concern when you have a Plasma Display.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23478659
> 
> 
> Just use Pixel Jogger mp4 on the usb mediaplayer, let it play continuously repeat for 24+hr with Contrast=Max and Brightness=Min.
> 
> Don't need to let IR totally dissappear to use the tv further, just use Pixel Jogger everytime for few minutes to warmup the tv and between gaming sessions/breaks every (half) hour or so.
> 
> Download Pixel Jogger Pinknoise 10min.mp4:
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/inwvay
> 
> 
> For various Pixel Jogger versions, samples and download links see youtube channel:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/bwon2k10/videos
> 
> Google Pixel Jogger for more Info:
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer



FYI that Sendspace link is awful. It tries to force changing your browser homepages and other stuff before you can download. If you decline that and try to back out, it force-installs a PC Optimizer program onto your computer as it downloads the video. I just did this and immediately uninstalled PC Optimizer and force-quit everything. Hopefully there's nothing funky on my computer now.


Just get a YouTube/flash/video downloader for your browser and download the mp4 video you want off of YouTube. However all of that guy's videos are 60fps, and YouTube is converting them to 30fps, so the alternating black/white frames are turning into just the white.


This video might work better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYtEQn1JqOI 


And the Disney WOW disc has the pixel flipper video that you can let loop.


----------



## Mactavish

Must be a "Windows" issue, on my mac, click on the download link in Safari, Pixel Jogger file begins downloading immediately.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mactavish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23481982
> 
> 
> Must be a "Windows" issue, on my mac, click on the download link in Safari, Pixel Jogger file begins downloading immediately.



Did you actually download it and open it? Your OS should have nothing to do with it. It downloads an EXE (not the mp4 video), that launches the installer/downloader program that lets you download the mp4 (I didn't get that far) after getting you to change your settings and install the other crap.


----------



## waylo88

It doesn't download an exe. It downloads an MP4 (I just tried it). As long as you pay attention and uncheck the little tickbox that has you download the the Sendspace downloader crap, you should be fine.


----------



## cyberbri

It does that for me now (mp4), but the first time it gave me the EXE.


----------



## Mactavish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23482112
> 
> 
> It does that for me now (mp4), but the first time it gave me the EXE.



Well, there you go!


----------



## waylo88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23482112
> 
> 
> It does that for me now (mp4), but the first time it gave me the EXE.



Because you didn't uncheck the little box on the initial page. With the free download sites like that, you always have to make sure you're unchecking everything so you only download the file and not all the other crap that they try to pile on (which allows them to offer free downloads and uploads).


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23481963
> 
> 
> FYI that Sendspace link is awful. It tries to force changing your browser homepages and other stuff before you can download. If you decline that and try to back out, it force-installs a PC Optimizer program onto your computer as it downloads the video. I just did this and immediately uninstalled PC Optimizer and force-quit everything. Hopefully there's nothing funky on my computer now.
> 
> 
> Just get a YouTube/flash/video downloader for your browser and download the mp4 video you want off of YouTube. However all of that guy's videos are 60fps, and YouTube is converting them to 30fps, so the alternating black/white frames are turning into just the white.



The Youtube version came out black for me, but whatever. It's a crummy video anyway. The Sendspace one (no malware here, just the mp4) alternates rapidly between full-field black and white, and the whole point of Jscreenfix and WoW Pixel Flipper is to rapidly switch pixel values without stressing the TV as much.


> Quote:
> This video might work better:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYtEQn1JqOI



Yeah, and that video tries to hypnotize you into doing god knows what.


> Quote:
> And the Disney WOW disc has the pixel flipper video that you can let loop.



You can't let it "loop" as it's not a video. It's a Java program. and recent players will turn off after 30 minutes or so. If you can hook up a PC, see this message for a free alternative that will run forever:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469


----------



## cyberbri

Also with a PS3, you can get it to loop a video or series of videos (mp4s), although you have to disable any power saver auto-shutdowns or screensaver dimmers.


----------



## chunon

This ibrad guy is a flake been around here fir last couple of years user beware


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23482498
> 
> 
> This ibrad guy is a flake been around here fir last couple of years user beware


Thanks for the warning, I should beware of that guy giving free DIY improvement tools.


----------



## chunon

The fact is your tools have been discredited here over and over but please carry on none of your "tools" are sanctioned by avs


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23482580
> 
> 
> The fact is your tools have been discredited here over and over but please carry on none of your "tools" are sanctioned by avs


Smart DIY tweakers will proof/do "the walk" instead of all just talk.

Sorry to have offended your avs family. Have a nice talk.


----------



## RetroGiant

So I was reading up on various stuff about Image Retention and Pixel Orbiter and whatnot and came across this quote regarding both:

*"For instance, there is the pixel orbiter. It can quickly swap the color of adjacent pixels when a static image is being displayed. This simulates a picture change to the television that is practically impossible for the viewer to see and pretty much eliminates burn-in. Another feature searches out pixels that have been turned on for too long and shuts them off for a short period of time. These also prevent burn-in, and by increasing the overall pixel health of the television, will extend its overall lifespan."*


That sounds like it would be more ideal for image retention prevention but everything I've read, seen and experienced is that what he said is not the case and image retention simply shifts the image slightly thus resulting in just a more "smeared/blurred" IR instead of crisp. Is this possibly old "rumors/info" of how pixel orbiter was supposed to work back in the day or is he just dreaming and interpreting what he thinks its doing? The date of the article was 2012 I believe.


----------



## ElectroMike

FWIW, from Wiki:

_*"Plasma manufacturers have tried various ways of reducing burn-in such as using gray pillarboxes, pixel orbiters and image washing routines, but none to date have eliminated the problem and all plasma manufacturers continue to exclude burn-in from their warranties"*_


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23485056
> 
> 
> So I was reading up on various stuff about Image Retention and Pixel Orbiter and whatnot and came across this quote regarding both:
> 
> *"For instance, there is the pixel orbiter. It can quickly swap the color of adjacent pixels when a static image is being displayed. This simulates a picture change to the television that is practically impossible for the viewer to see and pretty much eliminates burn-in. Another feature searches out pixels that have been turned on for too long and shuts them off for a short period of time. These also prevent burn-in, and by increasing the overall pixel health of the television, will extend its overall lifespan."*
> 
> 
> That sounds like it would be more ideal for image retention prevention but everything I've read, seen and experienced is that what he said is not the case and image retention simply shifts the image slightly thus resulting in just a more "smeared/blurred" IR instead of crisp. Is this possibly old "rumors/info" of how pixel orbiter was supposed to work back in the day or is he just dreaming and interpreting what he thinks its doing? The date of the article was 2012 I believe.



That's what people who own the TVs would like to believe, and what current manufacturers would like everyone to believe. The orbiter can help in some specific cases -- mostly with very small static images -- but definitely is not an effective IR-prevention tool.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23485866
> 
> 
> FWIW, from Wiki:
> 
> _*"Plasma manufacturers have tried various ways of reducing burn-in such as using gray pillarboxes, pixel orbiters and image washing routines, but none to date have eliminated the problem and all plasma manufacturers continue to exclude burn-in from their warranties"*_



All I can say is Pioneer figured out how to do it, and so did Samsung (?!) last year on their 60"+ panels. It can't be that complicated. The general consensus when you research the topic is that there may be specific materials involved in manufacturing that are more or less likely to result in severe IR. Obviously those panels could still experience "true" burn-in (static image for 1000's of hours causing uneven aging), but they're both extremely resistant to long-term IR. I personally think Panasonic simply isn't willing to invest in significant changes to the manufacturing process when they're planning an exit from plasma over the next couple years. Samsung is strangely willing to try really off the wall changes to gain market share (and it works), but their overall quality still lags.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowbird*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23479081
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I used slides but to be honest I had no idea the IR was gonna be this bad. Everyone I spoke to said Burn In was a thing of the past but that little HUD isn't going away.



Someone didn't listen to me, then. Better to be safe than sorry.


Sounds like my softball players who I coach. "I don't need to stretch/run poles/warm up that long, my arm doesn't hurt." Yeah, no ****... we're here to _prevent_ injuries from ever happening, kid. They just don't seem to grasp that.


----------



## SFabozzi

Okay, back to topic. Does anyone have an effective method of dealing with stubborn IR?


----------



## Glenee

Like I said in Post #4446. I had quite a time getting my Plasma to the point it wasn't noticeable to most people other than me. What I did was everything I mean I ran Break in slides, Played Finding Nemo with the Color turned Up, Played the White Wash Screen that came with the Plasma in the Menu. It took about 90 Days of some serious work. Like I said I could still faintly see it when I gave it too my son. He says he never see's it. It's a ***** but you can get it where it's almost not there. It was because of Fox News Logo the Day MJ passed away, they kept that Logo stationary with No Commercials for Hours and My Wife and I stayed Tuned without a thought about it.

The chances of that ever happening that way again with a Broadcast are almost None. But it was a unique situation.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23504904
> 
> 
> Okay, back to topic. Does anyone have an effective method of dealing with stubborn IR?



I recommend using TV static or the Disney WoW Pixel Flipper. I use it on a regular basis.


----------



## Blu_One




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23505060
> 
> 
> I recommend using TV static or the Disney WoW Pixel Flipper. I use it on a regular basis.



+1 for Disney WoW


I don't have any IR problems at all, but I did run the pixel flipper overnight once just to be safe you know


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blu_One*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23505099
> 
> 
> +1 for Disney WoW
> 
> 
> I don't have any IR problems at all, but I did run the pixel flipper overnight once just to be safe you know



I have both the Disney Wow® PixelFlipper and screen wash utilities from a UK-based company Pixel Protector. Still have remnants of the FoxNews logo IR.


BestBuy Geek Squad Protection is replacing the panel on my GT50, 1273 hours on it. If it does it again, the entire TV will be replaced. Wonder what the 2013 equivalent would be?


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23523594
> 
> 
> I have both the Disney Wow® PixelFlipper and screen wash utilities from a UK-based company Pixel Protector. Still have remnants of the FoxNews logo IR.
> 
> 
> BestBuy Geek Squad Protection is replacing the panel on my GT50, 1273 hours on it. If it does it again, the entire TV will be replaced. Wonder what the 2013 equivalent would be?


Some people have said they were able to get Best Buy to give them a VT60. That is what I would push for but they might try and give you a ST60 first.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23523599
> 
> 
> Some people have said they were able to get Best Buy to give them a VT60. That is what I would push for but they might try and give you a ST60 first.



I will not accept anything less than a VT60.


----------



## Tom Riddle

How bad is the IR; noticeable from regular viewing distances or from color slides and light backgrounds at close distances only? I have the 65VT30 and it took well into the 3000 hour mark before IR began to stabalize - before that i would have some IR from logos that would last a week at a time. Also, I quit seeking it out and only pop the color slides up occasionaly - to very little to any IR anymore.


----------



## Quickbeams

O.K., believe it or not, I have now read every post in this thread. Call me a masochist, or maybe as my wife says I'm just anal, but I do like to do my research. My wife and I are building a summer cabin and will be purchasing a new T.V. I have never owned a plasma before, but am seriously considering the 51" Samsung F8500. I do have a couple of questions however, particularly concerning a couple of posts made by "headlesschickens". I was wondering about the download IR wipe files that he posted a link to. Are they just for Panasonic T.V.'s or can they be used on any T.V. (particularly Samsung)? I did download the zip file onto my Mac computer and when I opened the file I got an MPG file that opened in Quicktime, but all that played was a black screen. Am I doing something wrong? And finally, I remember reading some posts earlier in the forum that stated you should not run the swipe function on the T.V. too often as it would do harm to the set. I can't remember if the poster said that was information from the manufacturer or not, but can anyone tell me, is it possible or even likely that you will do harm to the set by running the swipe function that comes with the T.V., and given that "headlesschickens" files are taken from that principle, will his files do harm to the T.V.? Thanks so much for your help.


----------



## Tom Riddle

It doesn't appear that Samsung has posted the user manual yet to their site, so I couldn't confirm the claims that using the swipe function too often could damage the set. I would say that if it could, you probably would have to use it quite a bit - for the record, I've only used the scrolling bar wipe on my Panasonic VT30 a dozen or so times when I first had it. As for the files, you will have to wait for headlesschickens to reply. You may want to look into color slides to run during the first 100 hours or so of usage to help age the phosphers evenly - but it isn't imperative to do this. A simple search on this site for "break-in slides" will produce quite a bit of results, but if you can't find what you need PM me and I will send you a link. I had never owned a plasma before I bought my VT30 and was always quite content with the image my LED/LCD produced, but once I purchased the plasma, I swore I would never go back.


----------



## cyberbri

D-Nice's break-in slides are designed for an accelerated uniform (all pixels evenly) break-in of all pixels on the screen, so you can get a "better" calibration. Slides will work for any TV.


The pixels/panel continues to age and shift slightly even up to 300 hours.


Instead of running slides, you can loop PIXAR/CG movies, leave it on HBO, etc. to just age the panel. When I got my TV a few weeks ago, I'd watch it during they day, and let my PS3 loop about 20 video game trailers overnight, to get to about 100 hours in 4 days.


Also, the video file you downloaded is I think 60fps, alternating black-white. It appears black only because it is probably playing back at 30fps. If you pause it and use the arrow keys, I imagine it would alternate white-black-white. It does seem like it would be very stressful on the TV, especially when the TV is brand new, going black-white-black 60 times a second.


My Panasonic ST60's swipe function is just black and white blocks scrolling across the screen, not too fast.


You can also get the Disney WOW Blu-ray, which has a pixel-flipper video app that can help break-in TVs or try to clear up IR. It plays until you stop it, although some BD players may detect no input/interaction and time out.


----------



## wangctr

I've been mighty careful, though, employing the screen wipe feature rather frequently.


----------



## headlesschickens

I recently spent a good bit of time with the VT60 and ZT60 at Best Buy running test images and videos. I'll skip the conclusions I made about the panels and drive methods (short version: nearly identical to the VT50 panels, making this most likely a "tock" year on the 2-year cycle) and note that I observed the same IR performance on these panels as I have on the 2012 Panasonics. In fact, the first thing I noticed on the ZT was that it already had a very strong dark imprint of the "ELITE" logo in the upper right corner. This imprint didn't change during the time I spent with the TV so I doubt it was recent.


My perspective is that the reports of less IR come from the lower light output of these panels (many of you may know that lowering the light output on the 2012 panels dramatically decreases IR). I believe that the reduced brightness (a compromise made to get the very impressive black levels out of what is largely the same panel tech as last year) result in a longer average time for IR to form while the panel's actual IR characteristics are unchanged. Hopefully Panasonic has one last major panel update ready to go, because this is an unimpressive way to exit the plasma business (next year would be the start of another 2-year panel tech cycle in theory).


I intend to test the Samsung for IR performance as well in the near future, especially considering the impressive IR performance Samsung brought to their otherwise disappointing panels last year. Unfortunately the F8500's terrible input lag means it's not an option for me, but I still want to know if Samsung will be maintaining their 2012 IR performance down the line.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533315
> 
> 
> I recently spent a good bit of time with the VT60 and ZT60 at Best Buy running test images and videos. I'll skip the conclusions I made about the panels and drive methods (short version: nearly identical to the VT50 panels, making this most likely a "tock" year on the 2-year cycle) and note that I observed the same IR performance on these panels as I have on the 2012 Panasonics. In fact, the first thing I noticed on the ZT was that it already had a very strong dark imprint of the "ELITE" logo in the upper right corner. This imprint didn't change during the time I spent with the TV so I doubt it was recent.
> 
> 
> My perspective is that the reports of less IR come from the lower light output of these panels (many of you may know that lowering the light output on the 2012 panels dramatically decreases IR). I believe that the reduced brightness (a compromise made to get the very impressive black levels out of what is largely the same panel tech as last year) result in a longer average time for IR to form while the panel's actual IR characteristics are unchanged. Hopefully Panasonic has one last major panel update ready to go, because this is an unimpressive way to exit the plasma business (next year would be the start of another 2-year panel tech cycle in theory).
> 
> 
> I intend to test the Samsung for IR performance as well in the near future, especially considering the impressive IR performance Samsung brought to their otherwise disappointing panels last year. Unfortunately the F8500's terrible input lag means it's not an option for me, but I still want to know if Samsung will be maintaining their 2012 IR performance down the line.




I run my VT50 at 51 ftl all the time no IR at all, fact is many have 2012 models with no IR problema and many will have 2013 models with no issues.


----------



## Quickbeams




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533315
> 
> 
> I recently spent a good bit of time with the VT60 and ZT60 at Best Buy running test images and videos. I'll skip the conclusions I made about the panels and drive methods (short version: nearly identical to the VT50 panels, making this most likely a "tock" year on the 2-year cycle) and note that I observed the same IR performance on these panels as I have on the 2012 Panasonics. In fact, the first thing I noticed on the ZT was that it already had a very strong dark imprint of the "ELITE" logo in the upper right corner. This imprint didn't change during the time I spent with the TV so I doubt it was recent.
> 
> 
> My perspective is that the reports of less IR come from the lower light output of these panels (many of you may know that lowering the light output on the 2012 panels dramatically decreases IR). I believe that the reduced brightness (a compromise made to get the very impressive black levels out of what is largely the same panel tech as last year) result in a longer average time for IR to form while the panel's actual IR characteristics are unchanged. Hopefully Panasonic has one last major panel update ready to go, because this is an unimpressive way to exit the plasma business (next year would be the start of another 2-year panel tech cycle in theory).
> 
> 
> I intend to test the Samsung for IR performance as well in the near future, especially considering the impressive IR performance Samsung brought to their otherwise disappointing panels last year. Unfortunately the F8500's terrible input lag means it's not an option for me, but I still want to know if Samsung will be maintaining their 2012 IR performance down the line.




I will be very interested in what you find out regarding the Samsung, as I hope to purchase the 51" F8500 later this year.


----------



## nfraso




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533315
> 
> 
> I intend to test the Samsung for IR performance as well in the near future, especially considering the impressive IR performance Samsung brought to their otherwise disappointing panels last year. Unfortunately the F8500's terrible input lag means it's not an option for me, but I still want to know if Samsung will be maintaining their 2012 IR performance down the line.



At 60fps there's less than a frame of input lag difference between VT60 and F8500 (just rename input to 'PC'). So if F8500 is terrible, I don't see how ~10ms better makes the VT60 that much less terrible.


----------



## Quickbeams




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/3960#post_22831399
> 
> 
> I think my ir is coming from netflix, so im just going to stay away from it and see if it goes away. When youre in netflix theres this box over which title is currently selected, this box does not move, when you arrow in any direction it just scrolls titles through the box. I go through sperts where i hardly ever use netflix or i use it a lot. Lately it has been alot, this is the only thing that could cause it, i dont leave stuff up or the the tv on and when i game its only for like a half hour a sitting. Plus the ir im seeing pretty much looks like that box.




As mentioned in my previous post, I have now read through every post in this forum. I'm still not scared off Plasma, but do have one major concern, that being the post above where the fellow says he got IR from Netflix. My wife and I are building a cabin and our new T.V. will be used primarily for Netflix. We will have a Blu Ray player, but I would say well over 95% of the T.V.'s use will be Netflix. We don't currently have a Netflix account (we'll be getting one when we get the new T.V.) so I don't know a lot about it, but if Netflix itself is causing I.R., then I will have no way to alter content and the IR will just keep building and building. If it was just a certain program on Netflix then I could alter the program, but the way I understand the post, it was Netflix itself that was the problem.


So, my question then, is there anyone else out there who notices that Netflix is a source of I.R.? If you were going to run nothing but Netflix on your T.V., would you still go with Plasma or should I be looking instead at LCD / LED?


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533330
> 
> 
> I run my VT50 at 51 ftl all the time no IR at all, fact is many have 2012 models with no IR problema and many will have 2013 models with no issues.



I forgot to add my traditional disclaimer, "This post to be followed by a number of anecdotal assertions that some Panasonic plasmas don't have IR."


I get it, your usage case doesn't produce IR. The fact that you know your calibrated ftl output in the first place tells me you probably don't use your TV the way many people in this thread will. I promise you that your panel would fail my IR test (I'd honestly bet money on it). Now that doesn't mean you're not right in saying that many people will never run into this problem; if you watch mostly stuff from BR and channels without logos it's never going to happen, and in those cases I'd say these are great panels. But if you put a game with a bright HUD up for 2-3 hours some of that HUD is going to stick for 6-9 hours. If you have a favorite game or logo channel those elements are going to stay on the panel for a long time, maybe forever if you keep re-exposing the images.


More critically, I'm not comparing to some arbitrary standard of IR I made up. I'm comparing to the ancient Pioneer 5080HD, which is hardly considered a legendary panel. I'm also comparing to the 60"+ Samsung panels from last year (For all I know they "borrowed" this tech from Pioneer's old panels since that's kind of their thing).


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533425
> 
> 
> I forgot to add my traditional disclaimer, "This post to be followed by a number of anecdotal assertions that some Panasonic plasmas don't have IR."
> 
> 
> I get it, your usage case doesn't produce IR. The fact that you know your calibrated ftl output in the first place tells me you probably don't use your TV the way many people in this thread will. I promise you that your panel would fail my IR test (I'd honestly bet money on it). Now that doesn't mean you're not right in saying that many people will never run into this problem; if you watch mostly stuff from BR and channels without logos it's never going to happen, and in those cases I'd say these are great panels. But if you put a game with a bright HUD up for 2-3 hours some of that HUD is going to stick for 6-9 hours. If you have a favorite game or logo channel those elements are going to stay on the panel for a long time, maybe forever if you keep re-exposing the images.
> 
> 
> More critically, I'm not comparing to some arbitrary standard of IR I made up. I'm comparing to the ancient Pioneer 5080HD, which is hardly considered a legendary panel. I'm also comparing to the 60"+ Samsung panels from last year (For all I know they "borrowed" this tech from Pioneer's old panels since that's kind of their thing).



We have had this conversation before gaming I have no idea and you are probably right but as far as other uses I am 95% cable and I watch whatever I want for as long as I want. That includes logos tickers scoreboards etc I must have a magic panel and in fact several magic panels, GT25 ST30 and now a VT50 and never one single instance or an IR problem.


----------



## RetroGiant

I have an st60 and noticed last night that no matter what settings I changed in eco mode (all off) and whatnot, the Disney Pixel Flipper seems to enable ABL. I went back and fourth looking at the screen wipe and then the pixel flipper and the screen wipe is so much brighter. Is there a way to run the Pixel Flipper without it dimming the screen? Why is it preventing max brightness with all things effecting brightness turned off? Makes me think I'm not getting the full benefits of the pixel flipper because of this.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533707
> 
> 
> I have an st60 and noticed last night that no matter what settings I changed in eco mode (all off) and whatnot, the Disney Pixel Flipper seems to enable ABL. I went back and fourth looking at the screen wipe and then the pixel flipper and the screen wipe is so much brighter. Is there a way to run the Pixel Flipper without it dimming the screen? Why is it preventing max brightness with all things effecting brightness turned off? Makes me think I'm not getting the full benefits of the pixel flipper because of this.



ABL is undefeatable


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533729
> 
> 
> ABL is undefeatable


That's unfortunate. So I assume its just disabled during the screen wipe function and that alone? Once or twice a month I like to run pixel flipper overnight to clear up and bouts of IR I may have developed. Since Pixel Flipper triggers ABL would I be better off to continue to run it vs the screen wipe or would the screen wipe be more beneficial since its brighter? I figured the pixel flipper would work better since it uses all the colors and "flips" them around like static vs the screen wipes simple black and white swipe.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533748
> 
> 
> That's unfortunate. So I assume its just disabled during the screen wipe function and that alone? Once or twice a month I like to run pixel flipper overnight to clear up and bouts of IR I may have developed. Since Pixel Flipper triggers ABL would I be better off to continue to run it vs the screen wipe or would the screen wipe be more beneficial since its brighter? I figured the pixel flipper would work better since it uses all the colors and "flips" them around like static vs the screen wipes simple black and white swipe.



I don't have experience with pixel flipper but don't think abl would hinder the mechanism for activating the pixels I would be more concerned with pixel orbiter setting should be off


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533315
> 
> 
> I recently spent a good bit of time with the VT60 and ZT60 at Best Buy running test images and videos. I'll skip the conclusions I made about the panels and drive methods (short version: nearly identical to the VT50 panels, making this most likely a "tock" year on the 2-year cycle) and note that I observed the same IR performance on these panels as I have on the 2012 Panasonics. In fact, the first thing I noticed on the ZT was that it already had a very strong dark imprint of the "ELITE" logo in the upper right corner. This imprint didn't change during the time I spent with the TV so I doubt it was recent.
> 
> 
> My perspective is that the reports of less IR come from the lower light output of these panels (many of you may know that lowering the light output on the 2012 panels dramatically decreases IR). I believe that the reduced brightness (a compromise made to get the very impressive black levels out of what is largely the same panel tech as last year) result in a longer average time for IR to form while the panel's actual IR characteristics are unchanged. Hopefully Panasonic has one last major panel update ready to go, because this is an unimpressive way to exit the plasma business (next year would be the start of another 2-year panel tech cycle in theory).
> 
> 
> I intend to test the Samsung for IR performance as well in the near future, especially considering the impressive IR performance Samsung brought to their otherwise disappointing panels last year. Unfortunately the F8500's terrible input lag means it's not an option for me, but I still want to know if Samsung will be maintaining their 2012 IR performance down the line.



I was under the impression from the marketing reports that the ST/GT/VT50 had a 25% increase in brightness from the previous panel - VT30. So, you're saying they went back in brightness for the 60 series?


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23534046
> 
> 
> I was under the impression from the marketing reports that the ST/GT/VT50 had a 25% increase in brightness from the previous panel - VT30. So, you're saying they went back in brightness for the 60 series?



ST60 certainly didnt the VT and ZT are dimmer than the VT50 of last year.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Quickbeams*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23533402
> 
> 
> As mentioned in my previous post, I have now read through every post in this forum. I'm still not scared off Plasma, but do have one major concern, that being the post above where the fellow says he got IR from Netflix. My wife and I are building a cabin and our new T.V. will be used primarily for Netflix. We will have a Blu Ray player, but I would say well over 95% of the T.V.'s use will be Netflix. We don't currently have a Netflix account (we'll be getting one when we get the new T.V.) so I don't know a lot about it, but if Netflix itself is causing I.R., then I will have no way to alter content and the IR will just keep building and building. If it was just a certain program on Netflix then I could alter the program, but the way I understand the post, it was Netflix itself that was the problem.
> 
> 
> So, my question then, is there anyone else out there who notices that Netflix is a source of I.R.? If you were going to run nothing but Netflix on your T.V., would you still go with Plasma or should I be looking instead at LCD / LED?



I use Netflix quite often on my panel and never have any issues that I notice. I'm not sure of the box he is referring to; this is not present while you are watching a show, so it must be on the interface. I.R. is inevitable on any plasma panel and if you go looking for it, you will find it. The good thing is, it tends to fade away quickly and seldom becomes a problem. There are many that will report they have had persistent IR, sometimes lasting months, but it almost always fades away. I myself had the text "Menu" on my screen 3 months when I first had my panel from changing the settings, but it was only visible at extremely close distances on light color slides. That key is to just enjoy your panel to its fullest and not seek out I.R. every time you use the set - you will drive yourself nuts.


Now, based on the information you have listed, I'm not sure that a plasma would benefit your usage needs much. I use mine mostly for Bu-rays and sports, two things that I find lacking on my LED/LCD. Since you are concerned about I.R. and this won't be your primary television, I would go with an LED/LCD.


----------



## Quickbeams




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23534138
> 
> 
> I use Netflix quite often on my panel and never have any issues that I notice. I'm not sure of the box he is referring to; this is not present while you are watching a show, so it must be on the interface. I.R. is inevitable on any plasma panel and if you go looking for it, you will find it. The good thing is, it tends to fade away quickly and seldom becomes a problem. There are many that will report they have had persistent IR, sometimes lasting months, but it almost always fades away. I myself had the text "Menu" on my screen 3 months when I first had my panel from changing the settings, but it was only visible at extremely close distances on light color slides. That key is to just enjoy your panel to its fullest and not seek out I.R. every time you use the set - you will drive yourself nuts.
> 
> 
> Now, based on the information you have listed, I'm not sure that a plasma would benefit your usage needs much. I use mine mostly for Bu-rays and sports, two things that I find lacking on my LED/LCD. Since you are concerned about I.R. and this won't be your primary television, I would go with an LED/LCD.




Thank you for your response. There are a couple of things I should have added. The T.V. is going to be mounted above the fireplace which I suppose doesn't matter one way or the other. One of the reasons I was thinking about a plasma however, was for the off angle viewing. This will be a concern for us. As well, with the plasma F8500 we can get a 51" where with the LCD / LED F8000 we can get either a 46" or a 55". I would prefer not to get the 46" and my wife really doesn't want the 55" so the 51" plasma seemed to be the perfect compromise. And besides all this, we really liked the picture on the F8500, although I gather from what you're saying that we may not realize this enhanced picture quality by watching Netflix. Still, as long as Netflix is not going to cause us persistent IR that we won't be able to get rid of because it is just part of Netflix itself, then I think we would still prefer the plasma.


And again, I understand that IR generally fades away, but from what I understand it fades away when the viewer watches different content. We will be predominantly watching Netflix so we won't be able to watch different content. Thanks again.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Well, nothing is better for off-viewing than plasma. As far as Netflix, it is just like watching cable or a Blu-ray, but instead you are streaming. The user who posted about IR from Netflix had to be referring to the interface where you select movies. As long as you are not on this screen for hours on end and don't leave it open overnight, you will be fine; any IR you get from it will fade rapidly. Realistically, you are varying the content you watch by selecting differnt shows - no different than changing the TV to another channel. Just make sure you have plenty of fullscreen viewing and don't watch everything with black bars. During football season, I have my plasma on a game all day Saturday and Sunday and any IR I have from the scores and logos is gone within a few hours.


----------



## RedZeppelin

I had an eye-opening experience with my Samsung plasma last night.


I put at least 100 hours into it with the slides and full-screen content before I really started using it, and by now I probably have 150+ hours on it. During the break-in period I didn't pause anything; if I had to leave the room I'd just let the movie play and then rewind it when I returned. Last night while watching a BD I decided to live dangerously and pause it for a quick trip to the kitchen. It was paused for maybe three to four minutes, in which time a small static menu bar appeared on the bottom of the screen with my BD options (e.g. Bookmark, Chapter). That menu couldn't have been there for more than a couple of minutes.


When I resumed the movie I could see the dark outline of that menu bar very clearly! It went away eventually, but I think it took as long or longer to go away than it was on the screen in the first place, so it was probably a 1:1 repair time on the static image. Now I can understand why it takes so long to remove IR from video games or channel logos that are displayed for hours at a time.


Granted I do have the contrast set to a robust 84 (I kept it at 50 during the break-in period), but I don't think that's an uncommon level for movie modes.


After the movie was over I ran the scroll bars for a few minutes just to be on the safe side. Fortunately I saw no signs of the menu bar, so simply watching the last 45 minutes or so of the movie apparently wiped it clean.


----------



## ElectroMike

I think the rule of thumb for IR removal using a pixel flipper or IR wipe (rolling black/white bars, if the TV has this feature) is 1:4, so for every 1 minute of IR on the screen, one needs 4 minutes of wipe time.


Problem becomes when a logo is there for a full show of say an hour, which means those pixels need to be flipped/ran thru with multiple colors for 4 hours to get the IR to fade or be gone.


I personally still have some IR of the ESPN logo left and I've not watch espn in full screen mode in over a month and this is with using the IR wipe daily for 20 min clips at a time.


----------



## RetroGiant

I had a bit of an interesting note regarding IR. For the longest time I had overscan on and pixel orbiter on. Contrast set abnormally low in the mid 30s during the day cause my wife tends to watch Investigation Discovery a lot which has a terrible logo prime for IR. For the most part I was able to avoid 95% of any IR from that station. Recently (last few days) I decided to turn overscan off and pixel orbiter off, and came home today and ran the screen wipe and low and behold some IR from the investigation discovery logo, crisp as can be. She didn't watch it any longer than any other time. Needless to say, overscan and pixel orbiter have been turned back on.


----------



## Tom Riddle

How much viewing does she do in a day and how old is the set? I ran my tv with low contrast during the break-in period when watching tv with logos or black bars, but once it had some hours on it, I opened it up to settings I enjoy. My wife has the tv on some of the day with various stations - no more than a few hours at most - that have logos, and if i check, I rarely have IR. I'm no expert but your set might be more susceptible to IR if you run it at extremely low contrast settings for the majority of the time and then flip to a high contrast for just a few hours of viewing.


----------



## Jeremyd5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23540552
> 
> 
> Needless to say, overscan and pixel orbiter have been turned back on.



No need to turn on Overscan as it won't help with the TV channel logo IR but I would recommend leaving the pixel orbiter on.


----------



## cyberbri

Overscan will move/resize the logo. Maybe alternate on/off to vary where the logo.


----------



## ElectroMike

Another thing, for all the people who are anal like me, when it comes to looking for the IR at close by distances on a pure white screen, the brightest white screen I've yet to find (and I've went thru 100's of "white" screens) is from a 2012 movie called Prometheus. I'm not promoting the movie as it was not that great (it's an Aliens wannabe) but there is a scene where a woman is on a surgical type table and they zoom in on her face, the surrounding area is so white that I used it as my go to screen for IR checks!


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23540641
> 
> 
> How much viewing does she do in a day and how old is the set? I ran my tv with low contrast during the break-in period when watching tv with logos or black bars, but once it had some hours on it, I opened it up to settings I enjoy. My wife has the tv on some of the day with various stations - no more than a few hours at most - that have logos, and if i check, I rarely have IR. I'm no expert but your set might be more susceptible to IR if you run it at extremely low contrast settings for the majority of the time and then flip to a high contrast for just a few hours of viewing.


I have around 200 hours I would think on my tv. I still keep the contrast low for the most part when watching anything with logos or gaming with static huds. She probably watches the channel 2-3 hours I would think. When we are watching movies I use my normal settings. Just babying the set still. Whats funny is it seems to be just that dang channel which causes any IR whether the contrast is normal or not. During the NBA finals I watched a game with the stark black scoreboard for the entire game, not a hint of IR, yet this stupid channel has a white logo thats barely transparent but the "ID" seems to have a drop shadow on it and my plasmas eat it up. My bedroom Samsung plasma has the IR pretty good but its sloooooooowly fading and not really noticeable during regular viewing. Its just weird that some logos seem to stick while others you would think would be way worse do not. In any case though the pixel flipper, even though it activates ABL, seems to help clear any I get.


----------



## Tom Riddle

I see from your posts that you have the ST60 - sounds pretty normal for the Panasonic sets. I had similar IR issues all the way up to around 1000 hours on my VT30. I have around 3000 hours on the set now and don't have many issues at all, so all gets better. I had the contrast low until around 500 hours and would only raise the contrast on fullscreen with no logos so the pixels would age evenly. I also did the 100 hour break-in with color slides. Enjoy your set.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Quickbeams*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23530792
> 
> 
> O.K., believe it or not, I have now read every post in this thread. Call me a masochist, or maybe as my wife says I'm just anal, but I do like to do my research. My wife and I are building a summer cabin and will be purchasing a new T.V. I have never owned a plasma before, but am seriously considering the 51" Samsung F8500. I do have a couple of questions however, particularly concerning a couple of posts made by "headlesschickens". I was wondering about the download IR wipe files that he posted a link to. Are they just for Panasonic T.V.'s or can they be used on any T.V. (particularly Samsung)? I did download the zip file onto my Mac computer and when I opened the file I got an MPG file that opened in Quicktime, but all that played was a black screen. Am I doing something wrong? And finally, I remember reading some posts earlier in the forum that stated you should not run the swipe function on the T.V. too often as it would do harm to the set. I can't remember if the poster said that was information from the manufacturer or not, but can anyone tell me, is it possible or even likely that you will do harm to the set by running the swipe function that comes with the T.V., and given that "headlesschickens" files are taken from that principle, will his files do harm to the T.V.? Thanks so much for your help.



Sorry, didn't catch this until just now. The file I uploaded works from the "Media Player" of the TV, but won't play from a number of PC video players. I had a bit of trouble producing a relatively small video file that would play on the TV's media player from a USB drive, and the one that ended up working doesn't play on QT and WMP (works on VLC). I haven't tested it on a Samsung, so I can't say for sure whether or not it will play on its equivalent media player. I should point out that you don't need my video if your TV has the ability to run the scrolling bar for an unlimited period of time (like the XX60 Panasonics). I'm not sure how the F8500's scrolling bar works.


If you're looking for something to run from your PC I also have a h.264 version that definitely should work on most PC video players (but doesn't on the media player for whatever reason -- probably my fault since I don't have any particularly good video encoding software).


I don't believe there's any evidence to suggest that the scrolling bar harms plasma TVs; It's an included feature recommended by the manufacturer for removing IR. Technically the most stressful thing for the panel would be something that activates every pixel constantly like the pixel flipper or a white slide, as this will likely produce the highest possible panel temperature. Either way I've not heard of this causing a problem for anyone, though I suppose it could depend on the ambient temperature (ie, probably don't run slides all day if it's 95 F in your house since the panels weren't made to operate in extreme temperatures). If you have any concerns you can run the looping video, pixel flipper, slides (or whatever wipe content) at a lower contrast setting to decrease the amount of heat the panel produces, however this will also decrease the effectiveness of the wipe content somewhat.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23539441
> 
> 
> I had an eye-opening experience with my Samsung plasma last night.
> 
> 
> I put at least 100 hours into it with the slides and full-screen content before I really started using it, and by now I probably have 150+ hours on it. During the break-in period I didn't pause anything; if I had to leave the room I'd just let the movie play and then rewind it when I returned. Last night while watching a BD I decided to live dangerously and pause it for a quick trip to the kitchen. It was paused for maybe three to four minutes, in which time a small static menu bar appeared on the bottom of the screen with my BD options (e.g. Bookmark, Chapter). That menu couldn't have been there for more than a couple of minutes.
> 
> 
> When I resumed the movie I could see the dark outline of that menu bar very clearly! It went away eventually, but I think it took as long or longer to go away than it was on the screen in the first place, so it was probably a 1:1 repair time on the static image. Now I can understand why it takes so long to remove IR from video games or channel logos that are displayed for hours at a time.
> 
> 
> Granted I do have the contrast set to a robust 84 (I kept it at 50 during the break-in period), but I don't think that's an uncommon level for movie modes.
> 
> 
> After the movie was over I ran the scroll bars for a few minutes just to be on the safe side. Fortunately I saw no signs of the menu bar, so simply watching the last 45 minutes or so of the movie apparently wiped it clean.



Interesting, but unfortunately not conclusive. It's normal for plasma (even the IR-proof Pioneers I keep talking about) to get what we call "residual charge" IR, which is usually what you're seeing when we're talking about IR that forms in minutes. Generally this kind of IR is so short-lived (ie, it also goes away in a matter of minutes) that we don't really worry about it. The kind of IR that's concerning usually takes an hour or more to form and then lasts 3-4 times longer. Without more extensive testing it's hard to tell if this is an indication that Samsung has brought long-term IR back (they actually had IR-resistant panels last year, the 60"+ 6500, 7000 and 8000's) or if this is just normal (and harmless) residual charge.


This reminds me that I need to get back to BB to run my tests on an F8500. I'm really interested in knowing if the increased brightness brought back IR, or even if Samsung just dropped their IR resistance technology (whatever it was) entirely this year.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4470#post_23541104
> 
> 
> I have around 200 hours I would think on my tv. I still keep the contrast low for the most part when watching anything with logos or gaming with static huds. She probably watches the channel 2-3 hours I would think. When we are watching movies I use my normal settings. Just babying the set still. Whats funny is it seems to be just that dang channel which causes any IR whether the contrast is normal or not. During the NBA finals I watched a game with the stark black scoreboard for the entire game, not a hint of IR, yet this stupid channel has a white logo thats barely transparent but the "ID" seems to have a drop shadow on it and my plasmas eat it up. My bedroom Samsung plasma has the IR pretty good but its sloooooooowly fading and not really noticeable during regular viewing. Its just weird that some logos seem to stick while others you would think would be way worse do not. In any case though the pixel flipper, even though it activates ABL, seems to help clear any I get.



The trick about static logos is brighter is worse. The only ones that are really dangerous are the white ones, so Discovery is probably the biggest offender here. Adult Swim too, though that logo is actually small enough that I think the pixel orbiter might disperse the IR well enough. Other stuff you might worry about, like the black scoreboard, are usually harmless as IR generally comes from static exposure of extremely bright areas; the pixels that stay dark don't cause any problems because we're not really talking about uneven wear (IR is supposedly caused by some kind of chemical deposit process that occurs when pixels stay full bright for an extended period).


My advice is to just get into running your IR wipe content of choice on a regular schedule so you can watch the TV however you want. Do that for like a week, then check for IR with a slide and adjust your wipe content time accordingly (ie, more hours of wipe content per week if you're still getting IR). Once you find the appropriate ratio you can largely ignore the IR. Annoying, I know, but probably better than actually having to baby the set while you're watching it.


----------



## Jeremyd5

Well hopefully this is the last question I have regarding IR. My only rule with my ST50 since I've started using it normally has been that any time I get strong visible IR that could easily be seen from my seating position 9 feet away to watch other things to until the retained image was completely gone and then add a few more hours before even attempting to go back to watching whatever it was that caused the IR. This has worked well with my 2-3 hour video game sessions (I don't play that often) but has been a royal pain to manage when it comes to watching regular TV. The problem I'm having is that because the ST50 is so prone to what I would consider to be long duration IR - x hours of a logo takes approximately double the time to remove - that I'm literally having to run the ST50 24/7 in order to remove retained images.


Is that normal for plasmas? My 800U normally took just a minute or so in the few rare instances of visible IR. If it wasn't visible I wouldn't care but when I see a movie channel logo take 4 hours to clear after watching just one movie I worry that not clearing that first instance and then adding additional time will eventually lead to problems with burn in down the road. I should note that I'm well over 2,000 hours of usage time on the plasma. In fact, I'm betting I'm very close to 3,000 now considering how often I'm having to run it.


----------



## henry77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23523594
> 
> 
> I have both the Disney Wow® PixelFlipper and screen wash utilities from a UK-based company Pixel Protector. Still have remnants of the FoxNews logo IR.
> 
> 
> BestBuy Geek Squad Protection is replacing the panel on my GT50, 1273 hours on it. If it does it again, the entire TV will be replaced. Wonder what the 2013 equivalent would be?



I had IR with an ESPN logo that is only noticeable when the screen is white. It has faded a bit but is still there. Best Buy attempted to order a new panel for my ST50. However, the panel was unavailable. I was refunded the amount I paid for my ST50, plus a pro-rated amount of the warranty. I used the refund towards a Sammie "55 7100 LED.


The ST50 is now in my bedroom. So it worked out well.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jeremyd5*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23548867
> 
> 
> Well hopefully this is the last question I have regarding IR. My only rule with my ST50 since I've started using it normally has been that any time I get strong visible IR that could easily be seen from my seating position 9 feet away to watch other things to until the retained image was completely gone and then add a few more hours before even attempting to go back to watching whatever it was that caused the IR. This has worked well with my 2-3 hour video game sessions (I don't play that often) but has been a royal pain to manage when it comes to watching regular TV. The problem I'm having is that because the ST50 is so prone to what I would consider to be long duration IR - x hours of a logo takes approximately double the time to remove - that I'm literally having to run the ST50 24/7 in order to remove retained images.
> 
> 
> Is that normal for plasmas? My 800U normally took just a minute or so in the few rare instances of visible IR. If it wasn't visible I wouldn't care but when I see a movie channel logo take 4 hours to clear after watching just one movie I worry that not clearing that first instance and then adding additional time will eventually lead to problems with burn in down the road. I should note that I'm well over 2,000 hours of usage time on the plasma. In fact, I'm betting I'm very close to 3,000 now considering how often I'm having to run it.



IR is going to vary depending on what type of background is displayed. Most of the movie channels use a white logo which is causing the pixels to burn brighter than those around it and in turn, it takes longer to rid. Don't worry though, normal viewing will take it away. As your panel continues to age, it will be easier to rid of IR, but with the Panasonic, it will alway be there. I have a VT30 and just don't pay much attention to it. I pull the color slides out every once in a while and it is rare that i have anything that causes concern.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23554946
> 
> 
> I had IR with an ESPN logo that is only noticeable when the screen is white. It has faded a bit but is still there. Best Buy attempted to order a new panel for my ST50. However, the panel was unavailable. I was refunded the amount I paid for my ST50, plus a pro-rated amount of the warranty. I used the refund towards a Sammie "55 7100 LED.
> 
> 
> The ST50 is now in my bedroom. So it worked out well.


They didn't take back your ST50?


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4440#post_23525907
> 
> 
> I will not accept anything less than a VT60.




Needless to say, BestBuy refused to replace the panel and "offered" me a replacement which the salesman agreed was the 60" VT60. However, General Mgr of the store wanted me to pay difference of $1000.

I have escalated this to BestBuy Corp. because Iike to get a kiss first before getting screwed.

_Advisory to all thinking about the Geek Squad Extended Warranty_ - *DON'T DO IT*. It is scam of the highest order. Will be back with what hopefully is the last entry on this seemingly unending saga.


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23558159
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23554946
> 
> 
> I had IR with an ESPN logo that is only noticeable when the screen is white. It has faded a bit but is still there. Best Buy attempted to order a new panel for my ST50. However, the panel was unavailable. I was refunded the amount I paid for my ST50, plus a pro-rated amount of the warranty. I used the refund towards a Sammie "55 7100 LED.
> 
> 
> The ST50 is now in my bedroom. So it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't take back your ST50?
Click to expand...

Yeah, isn't that kinda like stealing? Or at least fraud...


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23558595
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23558159
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henry77*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23554946
> 
> 
> I had IR with an ESPN logo that is only noticeable when the screen is white. It has faded a bit but is still there. Best Buy attempted to order a new panel for my ST50. However, the panel was unavailable. I was refunded the amount I paid for my ST50, plus a pro-rated amount of the warranty. I used the refund towards a Sammie "55 7100 LED.
> 
> 
> The ST50 is now in my bedroom. So it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't take back your ST50?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, isn't that kinda like stealing? Or at least fraud...
Click to expand...


If the problem merited replacement or refund under Best Buy's warranty, it's their prerogative what to do with the old TV. I would think it's basically valueless to them, so I can understand just leaving it with the customer. That said, I can't think of a stupider policy than warrantying plasma TVs against IR.


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23558595
> 
> 
> Yeah, isn't that kinda like stealing? Or at least fraud...



It depends on the policy, if Best Buy's policy is to tell the customer to discard the defective set, than there is nothing wrong done here, the serial# is deemed void and null at this point.


At my place of work, if a major component of the main product fails (fully or partially) and if we end up sending the customer a new replacement, instead of repairing it, with certain type failures we issue a call tag or have a service tech ship it back to us.


In cases where we do not need it back, we tell the customer to discard it. Some do, but I'm sure that some keep it with partial function or buy replacement parts and repair it, so they have a 2nd set. We have no issues with this on Corporate level, as we already know that the original defect caused the customer enough inconvenience and loss of faith in our product name, so if the problem is resolved and handled properly, and the end user is satisfied, that satisfaction goes a long way in word of mouth appraisal and gets us more product sales or at least in many cases, not all.


After all, it's not like we can bring back a used product, fix it and resell it, it just gets tossed after the evaluation is complete.


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23559043
> 
> 
> I can't think of a stupider policy than warrantying plasma TVs against IR.



As much as I would love to dissagree, as I have some IR on my own set, I do agree with you!










When I was buying my TV from Best Buy, they offered me their extended warranty as well but I knew it would be a gamble getting the warranty honored when the time comes, so I just used the $$$ towards others things and decided to just deal with it and live with the 1 year factory warranty.


----------



## smurraybhm

Gamble why? Show me where someone has been denied coverage by Best Buy. You have an example of someone getting their burn-in claim honored right above your post, plus it couldn't have been that bad if they used it elsewhere. The first expensive set I bought (XBR4) I bit and bought their coverage. The panel developed a line across it 4 years later and a short phone conversation, service call (arrived as scheduled) and one more phone call and I had a credit for the full amount of the display which was used to purchase a replacement. I won't argue that warranties are sold because they make the seller money, but if Best Buy sells 1000 extended warranties (example, not fact) because customers are that worried they may suffer burn-in then I wouldn't say that was stupid. The cost of claims will be below the revenue generated or they wouldn't offer the coverage - can you say actuary - last time I checked that was considered a sound business decision.


----------



## ElectroMike

What I mean by gamble, is you are paying on insurance which may be denied on something missed in fine print from their policy or run into something like said in post # 4506.


In your case, it's a black and white issue and would be hard for them to deny, however I can see an argument of deniying IR based issues, depending on the severety of it vs normal wear as people have a different view of it.


For example, let's say one can only see a faint IR logo but ONLY on a white screen and ONLY when looking within say.......... 5 feet, this drives them crazy b/c it seems to always catch their eye, they call Best Buy, their tech comes out and says this is normal and we only warranty it when it's visible from, let's say........ 7 feet away. So this is my definition of a gamble with them, because now it would become argumentative on where their warranty stands. From a user perspective, this is no longer a perfect product, it now has a blemish, from an extended warranty view, this may be classified as normal wear and will not be addressed until the problem worsens.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23559043
> 
> 
> I can't think of a stupider policy than warrantying plasma TVs against IR.




I disagree with you. In the year 2013, I really don't understand WHY we're still talking about IR in plasma technology. I would think by now, the problem should have been overcome. In Panasonic's case it seems to have gotten worse in the past few years even though their TVs are consistently viewed among the best available. I believe that all the manufactuers should be held accountable for IR which I consider to be a defect. If they can't fix it, don't sell it. Period. That's my two cents.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23561611
> 
> 
> I disagree with you. In the year 2013, I really don't understand WHY we're still talking about IR in plasma technology. I would think by now, the problem should have been overcome. In Panasonic's case it seems to have gotten worse in the past few years even though their TVs are consistently viewed among the best available. I believe that all the manufactuers should be held accountable for IR which I consider to be a defect. If they can't fix it, don't sell it. Period. That's my two cents.



Why single out IR? You could make your same argument about buzzing, line bleed, rainbow effect, etc. LCD users could make the same complaint about clouding, flashlighting, poor black levels, etc. You pays your money and you picks your poison. It's one thing to replace a TV right after you get it, but I wouldn't want to write a warranty that leaves me on the hook for several years for problems that are inherent to the technology, especially when the promise is for a new set when the old one can't be fixed, which of course it can't.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23562843
> 
> 
> Why single out IR?



Because its the single most prevalent problem with the technology and the manufacturers have been claiming its not a problem. If that's true, which both of us know it isn't, then why is this thread so damned long?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23562843
> 
> 
> You could make your same argument about buzzing, line bleed, rainbow effect, etc. LCD users could make the same complaint about clouding, flashlighting, poor black levels, etc. You pays your money and you picks your poison. It's one thing to replace a TV right after you get it, but I wouldn't want to write a warranty that leaves me on the hook for several years for problems that are inherent to the technology, especially when the promise is for a new set when the old one can't be fixed, which of course it can't.



You are defending the point of view of the manufacturers. I'm looking at it from the consumers viewpoint. When I spend $3000, I shouldn't have to be "picking my poison".


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23562922
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23562843
> 
> 
> Why single out IR?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its the single most prevalent problem with the technology and the manufacturers have been claiming its not a problem. If that's true, which both of us know it isn't, then why is this thread so damned long?
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23562843
> 
> 
> You could make your same argument about buzzing, line bleed, rainbow effect, etc. LCD users could make the same complaint about clouding, flashlighting, poor black levels, etc. You pays your money and you picks your poison. It's one thing to replace a TV right after you get it, but I wouldn't want to write a warranty that leaves me on the hook for several years for problems that are inherent to the technology, especially when the promise is for a new set when the old one can't be fixed, which of course it can't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are defending the point of view of the manufacturers. I'm looking at it from the consumers viewpoint. When I spend $3000, I shouldn't have to be "picking my poison".
Click to expand...


I'm not "defending" anyone. I'm explaining why I think it's stupid for Best Buy to be issuing extended warranties for inherent problems like this. You're trying to have a different discussion. I don't know what to tell you. Based on posts about buzzing being abnormal in general, and last year's filter-less 2D models being free of rainbow effect, I had the unrealistic expectation of getting a set that doesn't buzz or have rainbow effect, so I traded my first ST60 for an S60. It was no better than the ST60 WRT these things and worse in several ways, so I traded it for yet another ST60, which was the same as the first two. Hopefully that gets back to Panasonic, but I don't expect it to. IR that lasts hours to days is also a common feature, but thankfully it's rarely noticeable, and for me, it's less of a problem than the buzzing and RBE. As I've written several times by now, RBE is the worst of all the problems for me. The technology is what it is. It's better overall than LCD, and I needed a new TV.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23563030
> 
> 
> I'm not "defending" anyone. I'm explaining why I think it's stupid for Best Buy to be issuing extended warranties for inherent problems like this. You're trying to have a different discussion. I don't know what to tell you. Based on posts about buzzing being abnormal in general, and last year's filter-less 2D models being free of rainbow effect, I had the unrealistic expectation of getting a set that doesn't buzz or have rainbow effect, so I traded my first ST60 for an S60. It was no better than the ST60 WRT these things and worse in several ways, so I traded it for yet another ST60, which was the same as the first two. Hopefully that gets back to Panasonic, but I don't expect it to. IR that lasts hours to days is also a common feature, but thankfully it's rarely noticeable, and for me, it's less of a problem than the buzzing and RBE. As I've written several times by now, RBE is the worst of all the problems for me. The technology is what it is. It's better overall than LCD, and I needed a new TV.




I just got word that Best Buy is replacing my GT50 with a VT60. I'll tell you why they sell Extended Warranty on plasmas... Because if you read the fine print they really don't have any intention of honoring it if they could get away with it... And in most cases, people just throw theirs hands up and take whatever Best Buy gives them. Me, I have been fighting this all the way up to Corporate to get my TV replaced.


I think the only thing you and I disagree on is the IR. Panasonic should be liable to fix IR within the 1 year warranty period, in my view. If they can't design a TV resistant to IR then get the hell out of the plasma business.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23561611
> 
> 
> I disagree with you. In the year 2013, I really don't understand WHY we're still talking about IR in plasma technology. I would think by now, the problem should have been overcome. In Panasonic's case it seems to have gotten worse in the past few years even though their TVs are consistently viewed among the best available. I believe that all the manufactuers should be held accountable for IR which I consider to be a defect. If they can't fix it, don't sell it. Period. That's my two cents.



I think the main reason I agree with you is that this is a solved issue. Pioneer fixed this type of IR years ago. Go find an 8th gen Pioneer, doesn't have to be an Elite (mine isn't even 1080P!) and try to generate long-term IR. You can't do it, not even on purpose. It gets residual charge that fades in a couple minutes, but that has nothing to do with long-duration IR. Even suggesting that they don't know about the issue or how to fix it is absurd considering how much of Pioneer's plasma technology (not to mention the engineers) they acquired.


And here's where Panasonic should be really embarrassed: Samsung fixed this type of IR last year on their 60"+ panels. _Samsung_. If these guys can do it the issue must not be that expensive to correct, because Samsung barely cares about its plasma panels compared to the money they put into phones, LCD and SSD.


It'd be a totally different issue if it were a tech mystery; You'd just go "well it's impossible to make an IR-resistant plasma, no point complaining." That's simply not the case, and I expect them to fix this before they exit the business or I might (can't believe I'm saying it) make my final plasma purchase a Samsung (assuming they've carried over their 2012 IR developments).


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23563617
> 
> 
> I just got word that Best Buy is replacing my GT50 with a VT60. I'll tell you why they sell Extended Warranty on plasmas... Because if you read the fine print they really don't have any intention of honoring it if they could get away with it... And in most cases, people just throw theirs hands up and take whatever Best Buy gives them. Me, I have been fighting this all the way up to Corporate to get my TV replaced.
> 
> 
> I think the only thing you and I disagree on is the IR. Panasonic should be liable to fix IR within the 1 year warranty period, in my view. If they can't design a TV resistant to IR then get the hell out of the plasma business.



I would also accept that they just had to declare it openly, but can you imagine the consumer reaction the statement: "Not designed to be exposed to channels with bright static logos for more then 1 hour per day?" Ironically this is exactly the kind of stuff they tell people when they call to complain about IR (you're basically not supposed to watch channels with static logos or play games).


Still happy with my GT50, I always have to add that, but only considering the great price I got on it (and the fact that I still have my IR-proof Pioneer). Get this fixed and I'll stock up on VT70's next year, don't and I might be looking elsewhere.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFabozzi*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23563617
> 
> 
> I just got word that Best Buy is replacing my GT50 with a VT60. I'll tell you why they sell Extended Warranty on plasmas... Because if you read the fine print they really don't have any intention of honoring it if they could get away with it... And in most cases, people just throw theirs hands up and take whatever Best Buy gives them. Me, I have been fighting this all the way up to Corporate to get my TV replaced.
> 
> 
> I think the only thing you and I disagree on is the IR. Panasonic should be liable to fix IR within the 1 year warranty period, in my view. If they can't design a TV resistant to IR then get the hell out of the plasma business.



I haven't commented on Panasonic policies. I've been talking about Best Buy's extended warranty. I don't think they thought this part of it through, but like you said, a lot of people probably won't pursue remedy for it very far, so I could be wrong, and it might even make financial sense for them.


As for the manufacturers, both Panasonic and Samsung disclaim coverage for IR; Samsung's warranty even tells you how to watch the TV right, and this is for their flagship F8500:

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/service/warranty/PN64F8500AFXZA


----------



## SamOner

How often does IR occur in the Panasonic VT60?


----------



## RedZeppelin

One thing that continues to baffle me is the black vs. gray bars setting for 4:3 content. The manual for my TV says the gray bar feature is there specifically to help prevent burn-in, but logic says that gray bars would leave more of an after-image than black bars, especially at high contrast levels. I can see the gray bars helping to age the pixels more evenly, though.


----------



## sawfish

I think the last thing you said is your answer. Some level of gray should be close to the APL of the video in the active area, and they're trying to make up for the bars displaying nothing.


----------



## SFabozzi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SamOner*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23565060
> 
> 
> How often does IR occur in the Panasonic VT60?



My guess it would be the same for all other recent Panasonic models... Some claim no problems with it. The VT60 I have coming in will be the third different Panny I've had since December 2012, a UT50, replaced by a GT50 both with FoxNews logo stubbornly displayed IR. My guess is that I'll avoid watching any cable news channel on it, instead watching those on my 30" LED Dell.


----------



## Master Moron

I just noticed a problem with my 60 inch Panasonic Plasma. I've had the TV for a year and never noticed any problems with it. I moves to a new apartment about a month ago and was watching TV when I noticed that during a scene with an all white background there appeared to be three dark lines in the bottom left corner. They don't extend the entire width of the screen, just in the left hand corner. I thought maybe it was the show I was watching, but I tried watching other channels and playing Xbox and it's still there. It's not very dark and not very big. It's impossible to notice when the background isn't completely white. It almost looks like dirt on the screen. Do you think this is image retention or burn in? I can't think of what could have burned it in. I mean, I can't think of too many TV logos that are in the bottom left corner. Most are in the bottom right. I tried to look closely at it to see if it resembles any logo or anything, but no, it just looks like lines or rectangles. I know the Fox News logo is in the bottom left corner, but it's a rotating logo and I don't watch it for hours at a time. I was thinking maybe there was something in the corner of the Wii menu screen, and there was, but it's more of a circular button. It didn't resemble the lines I was seeing at all. I turned on my Xbox and did see that there were various shades of gray on the menu screen that could possibly cause an after image, but they extended across the whole width of the screen, not just the left corner. I'm trying to think if there's any games I've played that have an image in the left hand corner, but I can't think of any. So, do you guys think this is just image retention that will go away or is it permanently burned in?


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Moron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23572575
> 
> 
> I just noticed a problem with my 60 inch Panasonic Plasma. I've had the TV for a year and never noticed any problems with it. I moves to a new apartment about a month ago and was watching TV when I noticed that during a scene with an all white background there appeared to be three dark lines in the bottom left corner. They don't extend the entire width of the screen, just in the left hand corner. I thought maybe it was the show I was watching, but I tried watching other channels and playing Xbox and it's still there. It's not very dark and not very big. It's impossible to notice when the background isn't completely white. It almost looks like dirt on the screen. Do you think this is image retention or burn in? I can't think of what could have burned it in. I mean, I can't think of too many TV logos that are in the bottom left corner. Most are in the bottom right. I tried to look closely at it to see if it resembles any logo or anything, but no, it just looks like lines or rectangles. I know the Fox News logo is in the bottom left corner, but it's a rotating logo and I don't watch it for hours at a time. I was thinking maybe there was something in the corner of the Wii menu screen, and there was, but it's more of a circular button. It didn't resemble the lines I was seeing at all. I turned on my Xbox and did see that there were various shades of gray on the menu screen that could possibly cause an after image, but they extended across the whole width of the screen, not just the left corner. I'm trying to think if there's any games I've played that have an image in the left hand corner, but I can't think of any. So, do you guys think this is just image retention that will go away or is it permanently burned in?


I feel sorry for you dude. Now that you've seen it you'll never be able to _un_-see it.


----------



## Master Moron

You know, the lines do seem to be about the same size as the Fox News logo. I mean, it doesn't look anything like the Fox News logo, but I wouldn't expect it to if it's a rotating logo. Can a rotating logo still burn into the screen? Really, though, you'd figure if it was watching Fox News too much that the scroll bar on the bottom would also burn in. Though, the scroll bar is black, so maybe that makes a difference. Still, though, I didn't think I was watching Fox News that much. I'll have it on for maybe an hour in the morning mostly since none of the major networks' morning shows are on that early. And then when I get home from work and eat dinner I'll watch for ten minutes or so because I don't know of anything else that's on at that time. And then sometimes at night I'll occasionally flip between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly. Really, though, it can't be more than two hours most days. Plus the logo isn't there whenever they go to commercial. It just doesn't seem like I watch it enough where the logo would start to burn in. I can't think of anything else it could be though.


I realized that on the standard settings for Cinema and Game on my TV that both of them have the contrast at 100. I, of course, realized after googling this issue that you shouldn't turn the contrast up that high. Why on earth would they make those modes have the contrast that high if it causes the image to burn in? I guess you're only supposed to turn it to Cinema if you're actually watching a DVD? So, which setting are you supposed to use for regular TV?


----------



## headlesschickens

I don't know that logo specifically, but a moving logo can create IR if it follows a very simple pattern and activates the same pixels over and over. So if it's a rotating object with distinct bright lines the same pixels will be active a large percentage of the time. This is especially likely at maximum contrast as you've discovered.


Custom is the best setting to use for everything unless you're trying to minimize input lag, in which case you can use game (but it has some pretty bad dynamic contrast processing you cannot disable). Custom can be configured to match any of the other modes. If you want the least configuration effort (no test patterns and all that fun stuff) THX cinema is probably an okay place to start.


Just in case you're interested, cinema is set to 100 because it uses a different driving method with a lower peak output. It produces excellent gradation (no visible dither in even the darkest shades) at the cost of higher black level and less light output, and because of the impact on contrast it's not frequently used unless you plan to sit very close to the TV or are very sensitive to low-luminance temporal dithering. This setting can be accessed in Custom as panel brightness "low," with "mid" being the normal setting and "high" being the worst option (torch mode for vivid). Even though it produces less light it seems to have as much IR as any other mode, which I imagine has something to do with the differences in driving modes.


----------



## Master Moron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23573393
> 
> 
> I don't know that logo specifically, but a moving logo can create IR if it follows a very simple pattern and activates the same pixels over and over. So if it's a rotating object with distinct bright lines the same pixels will be active a large percentage of the time. This is especially likely at maximum contrast as you've discovered.
> 
> 
> Custom is the best setting to use for everything unless you're trying to minimize input lag, in which case you can use game (but it has some pretty bad dynamic contrast processing you cannot disable). Custom can be configured to match any of the other modes. If you want the least configuration effort (no test patterns and all that fun stuff) THX cinema is probably an okay place to start.
> 
> 
> Just in case you're interested, cinema is set to 100 because it uses a different driving method with a lower peak output. It produces excellent gradation (no visible dither in even the darkest shades) at the cost of higher black level and less light output, and because of the impact on contrast it's not frequently used unless you plan to sit very close to the TV or are very sensitive to low-luminance temporal dithering. This setting can be accessed in Custom as panel brightness "low," with "mid" being the normal setting and "high" being the worst option (torch mode for vivid). Even though it produces less light it seems to have as much IR as any other mode, which I imagine has something to do with the differences in driving modes.



Well, that's great. If they were going to put settings on the TV that could damage it, you'd figure they would give you an onscreen warning or something. I just chose the settings that seemed to look best. So, of course, I went with Game for video games, and Cinema for everything else. I didn't have any clue that I was supposed to do research online to see how to use it without damaging it. I mean, I paid $1,600 for my set. At that cost you shouldn't have to break it in at all. I would have gone with an LED if I had known about that nonsense. If I pay that kind of money for a TV, I want it to work, period. So, is there anyway to fix this? If I keep the contrast low and stop watching Fox News for a week or so will the dark spots fade? How low should the contrast be anyway? Right now it's at 60. Is that low enough?


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Moron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23573409
> 
> 
> How low should the contrast be anyway? Right now it's at 60. Is that low enough?



Conventional wisdom says you should only have to keep contrast low during the initial break-in period of 100-200 hours. After that you should be able to calibrate the set for your room and set contrast as high as you need it for proper display. Mine is set at 84 right now for Blu-ray playback, but I have it lower for my cable TV because of the danger of static logos. Luckily I watch almost no cable on my plasma as I bought it primarily for movies.


Have you tried running a pixel flipper overnight to see if that helps the lines at all?


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23577533
> 
> 
> Conventional wisdom says you should only have to keep contrast low during the initial break-in period of 100-200 hours. After that you should be able to calibrate the set for your room and set contrast as high as you need it for proper display. Mine is set at 84 right now for Blu-ray playback, but I have it lower for my cable TV because of the danger of static logos. Luckily I watch almost no cable on my plasma as I bought it primarily for movies.
> 
> 
> Have you tried running a pixel flipper overnight to see if that helps the lines at all?



Conventional wisdom is 100% incorrect on this one. "Break-in" periods have zero impact on IR performance. This is an old myth from the days of panels with extremely low half-life ratings, where in theory it might reduce the occurrence of *burn-in* to pre-age the panel somewhat. In practice it didn't really help much back then, and the modern long-term IR we contend with is NOT caused by uneven pixel wear so this break-in will not help at all. Long-term IR is generally understood to be caused by a deposit of chemicals inside the cell which physically block light (though getting more detailed info is difficult since manufacturers refuse to talk about it, and those old Pioneer papers on the subject are too dense for non-engineers). The degree to which your panel experiences this effect will not change during its lifetime, even after 1000's of hours. The only valid application of break in is to get the major gamma and color shifts out of the way before a calibration, since no one wants to have to pay for another one after 300 hours of usage. Panels experience most of their color balance and gamma shifts in the early hours of their lives.


The only way to prevent IR is to avoid static images, the primary offenders being channel logos and game HUDs. Black bars are generally safe enough because the concern is static bright areas, but I can see producing IR if you watched something super-bright with black bars (think cartoon or documentary about Antarctica bright). You can also reduce the occurrence of IR when you are exposing bright static elements by reducing contrast, but it's hard to say where the safe range is. You can get plenty of IR at contrast 70, but not as much as 100 (note that depending on your panel the peak output may not be at 100; on my GT50 the highest contrast setting that actually has an impact on light output, regardless of ABL level, is 83). If I drop to around 50 or lower I feel pretty safe about IR, but I can't promise that 50 is actually the cutoff. At a contrast of 30 I feel perfectly safe using the panel as a desktop display for hours and at that contrast have never seen a hint of IR.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Moron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23573409
> 
> 
> Well, that's great. If they were going to put settings on the TV that could damage it, you'd figure they would give you an onscreen warning or something. I just chose the settings that seemed to look best. So, of course, I went with Game for video games, and Cinema for everything else. I didn't have any clue that I was supposed to do research online to see how to use it without damaging it. I mean, I paid $1,600 for my set. At that cost you shouldn't have to break it in at all. I would have gone with an LED if I had known about that nonsense. If I pay that kind of money for a TV, I want it to work, period. So, is there anyway to fix this? If I keep the contrast low and stop watching Fox News for a week or so will the dark spots fade? How low should the contrast be anyway? Right now it's at 60. Is that low enough?



Short version: 60's definitely in the much safer range, but go as high as you want on proper dynamic content (movies, logo-free TV). Avoid the same logo for a while and hopefully it'll get better. Ironically the IR will fade faster if you use a higher contrast setting while watching fully dynamic content.


Long version:


As I mentioned above, you can feel free to use any contrast setting with fully dynamic content for as long as you want. I'd even say movies with black bars are of little concern. But with long-term viewing of channels with logos you're going to either need to go lower or get used to doing an "IR wipe" cycle. This means running some kind of fully dynamic, preferably bright content to counter the IR on a regular basis. The wipe function is very effective (though it can't be run indefinitely unless you have an XX60 model), many people swear by the pixel fipper, and even the break in slides are effective enough. Full screen movies, cartoons, etc. are also just as good. If your viewing is mixed enough you may already be performing an IR wipe without thinking about it (for example, if your viewing ratio is something like 1 hour logo channel to 3 hours full dynamic you'll probably never see IR). Since you're seeing the IR obviously your ratio (especially considering the maxed contrast) isn't working for you, so you'll want to take some steps. Hopefully your IR will fade over time until it's no longer easily visible, or better yet gone entirely.


As far as why the modes are all so mixed up on these TVs, ask the lunatics in marketing because the modes are a mess. Standard is of course the worst mode on the TV (bad gradation, low light output, would make you think plasma is the worst tech out there), game mode is loaded with dynamic contrast even though it's supposed to be the zero-processing mode, cinema is some kind of prototype for ultra-high gradation panel drive that compromises too much contrast to be useful in practice, and Custom is the best mode but requires a good amount of careful attention to actually work properly (for example on most panels you need a brightness of about 56 in order to avoid crushing blacks in Custom, which is a really odd arrangement). Honestly, dealing with these things would be a huge pain if you're not into doing a bit of amateur calibration (hook up a computer and go to lagom.nl to hit the basics, like black level and contrast). THX Cinema ends up being the only good option for a user who doesn't want to do tweaking, as it should have the black level correct, be at a reasonable contrast (around 70), and be closer to calibrated than any of the other modes are at stock settings.


If you want some baseline settings for Custom I can help there:

-Mode: Custom

-Contrast: 70; you can go higher but 70 is a good place to start if you're looking for a middle ground between IR risk and light output. You'll find 70 in "mid" drive mode is already way brighter than 100 in "low" (cinema) drive mode.

-Brightness: 55-56; But you need to check this in content that contains true black. The rule is turn it up until your true blacks start to contain random flashing pixels, then turn it down to the exact point where they stop. This has to be done in the dark.

-Color: Leave alone unless you have a personal preference here or calibration equipment.

-All of the "enhancers" under pro/advanced: zero or off

-Panel brightness: Mid is the best drive mode for most users.

-Color temp: Purists like warm2, I'm personally a fan of warm1 even though it's probably a little cool compared to 6500. Basically just try a couple settings and see what you like.

-All the precise calibration adjustments: Leave them alone unless you have a meter, they're going to be different for every panel. Don't believe anyone who tells you to use specific settings for these as they are very unlikely to work well on your specific panel.


Of course those basic settings will more or less just get you to THX Cinema mode, so again it might make more sense to just stick with that.


----------



## RetroGiant

Does putting the panel brightness to low instead of mid offer and extra help for IR prevention combined with the lower contrasts? What about gamma? Any sweet spot? Specifically regarding IR, not in relation to what looks correct for a proper calibration. I ask because I have one setting for movies and what not, and then one setting for regular tv and tv shows with logos. Because I was testing things on low contrast on my ST60 and had it at 25 (looks terrible obviously), brightness at 0, panel brightness at LOW, and gamma at I think 2.4, pixel orbiter ON, overscan ON, and the Investigation Discovery logo still reared its ugly head with some light IR but still clearly visible (on the screen wipe) with probably only 2 hours of my wife watching the channel.


----------



## laria




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23578908
> 
> 
> Of course those basic settings will more or less just get you to THX Cinema mode, so again it might make more sense to just stick with that.



We have some IR on our VT50 that we got in April that has been watched 100% of the time in THX Cinema mode.







It's from the baseball scoreboard on our local sports affiliate and it's pretty noticeable on white/light backgrounds. We didn't break it in with slides or anything... only watched full screen content this whole time, and have never left the baseball game paused or anything, and the scoreboard is not even up there 100% of the games, only in the camera angle behind the pitcher.


I tried the WOW pixel flipper overnight and it didn't help... next we are going to try the color slides. I was hoping it would go away with normal viewing but after a couple weeks it still seems the same as it was... and of course we're still watching baseball sometimes, so I guess that's probably not helping. I thought we'd be safe in THX Cinema mode because the settings aren't cranked really high, but I guess not. I wish you could turn on the pixel orbiter in that mode... I tried setting up the THX Cinema settings into Custom so we could turn it on, but I didn't know what settings to use from the menus that you can't access in THX Cinema mode.


----------



## cyberbri

One thing that helps is turning Overscan on and off, because it changes the size and location of things on the screen including logos, scoreboards, etc. Might be a PITA but still...

I can see sports games being tricky, because they can go long stretches between commercial breaks.


----------



## Master Moron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23578908
> 
> 
> Conventional wisdom is 100% incorrect on this one. "Break-in" periods have zero impact on IR performance. This is an old myth from the days of panels with extremely low half-life ratings, where in theory it might reduce the occurrence of *burn-in* to pre-age the panel somewhat. In practice it didn't really help much back then, and the modern long-term IR we contend with is NOT caused by uneven pixel wear so this break-in will not help at all. Long-term IR is generally understood to be caused by a deposit of chemicals inside the cell which physically block light (though getting more detailed info is difficult since manufacturers refuse to talk about it, and those old Pioneer papers on the subject are too dense for non-engineers). The degree to which your panel experiences this effect will not change during its lifetime, even after 1000's of hours. The only valid application of break in is to get the major gamma and color shifts out of the way before a calibration, since no one wants to have to pay for another one after 300 hours of usage. Panels experience most of their color balance and gamma shifts in the early hours of their lives.
> 
> 
> The only way to prevent IR is to avoid static images, the primary offenders being channel logos and game HUDs. Black bars are generally safe enough because the concern is static bright areas, but I can see producing IR if you watched something super-bright with black bars (think cartoon or documentary about Antarctica bright). You can also reduce the occurrence of IR when you are exposing bright static elements by reducing contrast, but it's hard to say where the safe range is. You can get plenty of IR at contrast 70, but not as much as 100 (note that depending on your panel the peak output may not be at 100; on my GT50 the highest contrast setting that actually has an impact on light output, regardless of ABL level, is 83). If I drop to around 50 or lower I feel pretty safe about IR, but I can't promise that 50 is actually the cutoff. At a contrast of 30 I feel perfectly safe using the panel as a desktop display for hours and at that contrast have never seen a hint of IR.
> 
> Short version: 60's definitely in the much safer range, but go as high as you want on proper dynamic content (movies, logo-free TV). Avoid the same logo for a while and hopefully it'll get better. Ironically the IR will fade faster if you use a higher contrast setting while watching fully dynamic content.
> 
> 
> Long version:
> 
> 
> As I mentioned above, you can feel free to use any contrast setting with fully dynamic content for as long as you want. I'd even say movies with black bars are of little concern. But with long-term viewing of channels with logos you're going to either need to go lower or get used to doing an "IR wipe" cycle. This means running some kind of fully dynamic, preferably bright content to counter the IR on a regular basis. The wipe function is very effective (though it can't be run indefinitely unless you have an XX60 model), many people swear by the pixel fipper, and even the break in slides are effective enough. Full screen movies, cartoons, etc. are also just as good. If your viewing is mixed enough you may already be performing an IR wipe without thinking about it (for example, if your viewing ratio is something like 1 hour logo channel to 3 hours full dynamic you'll probably never see IR). Since you're seeing the IR obviously your ratio (especially considering the maxed contrast) isn't working for you, so you'll want to take some steps. Hopefully your IR will fade over time until it's no longer easily visible, or better yet gone entirely.
> 
> 
> As far as why the modes are all so mixed up on these TVs, ask the lunatics in marketing because the modes are a mess. Standard is of course the worst mode on the TV (bad gradation, low light output, would make you think plasma is the worst tech out there), game mode is loaded with dynamic contrast even though it's supposed to be the zero-processing mode, cinema is some kind of prototype for ultra-high gradation panel drive that compromises too much contrast to be useful in practice, and Custom is the best mode but requires a good amount of careful attention to actually work properly (for example on most panels you need a brightness of about 56 in order to avoid crushing blacks in Custom, which is a really odd arrangement). Honestly, dealing with these things would be a huge pain if you're not into doing a bit of amateur calibration (hook up a computer and go to lagom.nl to hit the basics, like black level and contrast). THX Cinema ends up being the only good option for a user who doesn't want to do tweaking, as it should have the black level correct, be at a reasonable contrast (around 70), and be closer to calibrated than any of the other modes are at stock settings.
> 
> 
> If you want some baseline settings for Custom I can help there:
> 
> -Mode: Custom
> 
> -Contrast: 70; you can go higher but 70 is a good place to start if you're looking for a middle ground between IR risk and light output. You'll find 70 in "mid" drive mode is already way brighter than 100 in "low" (cinema) drive mode.
> 
> -Brightness: 55-56; But you need to check this in content that contains true black. The rule is turn it up until your true blacks start to contain random flashing pixels, then turn it down to the exact point where they stop. This has to be done in the dark.
> 
> -Color: Leave alone unless you have a personal preference here or calibration equipment.
> 
> -All of the "enhancers" under pro/advanced: zero or off
> 
> -Panel brightness: Mid is the best drive mode for most users.
> 
> -Color temp: Purists like warm2, I'm personally a fan of warm1 even though it's probably a little cool compared to 6500. Basically just try a couple settings and see what you like.
> 
> -All the precise calibration adjustments: Leave them alone unless you have a meter, they're going to be different for every panel. Don't believe anyone who tells you to use specific settings for these as they are very unlikely to work well on your specific panel.
> 
> 
> Of course those basic settings will more or less just get you to THX Cinema mode, so again it might make more sense to just stick with that.



Thanks for the advice. I do see that my TV has an image wipe function where a white bar wipes across the screen for 15 minutes. I tried that and the image retention does seem a little lighter, but it may be my imagination. The image retention is barely noticeable as is and you can pretty much only see it on solid white backgrounds. I watch HBO quite a bit so you would figure that would cut down on the image retention a bit. But, I guess the problem is that I just end up turning on Fox News when I'm eating and there's nothing else on. So, I turn it on for breakfast and dinner, and then on the weekends for lunch as well, and sometimes for when I'm having my snack before bed. Sucks that I'll need to stop watching Fox News, but I suppose all that conservative propaganda is going to make me crazy eventually anyway. Any suggestions for a news network that doesn't have a network logo in the left corner or perhaps just a suggestion on what to watch while I'm eating and there's nothing else on?


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23579400
> 
> 
> One thing that helps is turning Overscan on and off, because it changes the size and location of things on the screen including logos, scoreboards, etc. Might be a PITA but still...
> 
> I can see sports games being tricky, because they can go long stretches between commercial breaks.


This is what I've been doing lately as well.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Moron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23579435
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for a news network that doesn't have a network logo in the left corner or perhaps just a suggestion on what to watch while I'm eating and there's nothing else on?



Local news, PBS (PBS Newshour in the evenings is great, real news, no logos).

Other options are Netflix, Food Network, HGTV, Comedy Central whatever floats your boat. Commercial breaks should help with any short-term IR, especially if you are switching up the channel and content.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23578908
> 
> 
> Conventional wisdom is 100% incorrect on this one. ".



That's the beauty of this thread. The advice on IR is like the weather in Cincinnati where I used to live -- if you don't like it wait a bit and it will change.


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laria*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23579381
> 
> 
> We have some IR on our VT50 that we got in April that has been watched 100% of the time in THX Cinema mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's from the baseball scoreboard on our local sports affiliate and it's pretty noticeable on white/light backgrounds.
> 
> 
> I was hoping it would go away with normal viewing but after a couple weeks it still seems the same as it was... and of course we're still watching baseball
> 
> 
> I thought we'd be safe in THX Cinema mode because the settings aren't cranked really high, but I guess not.



I bought my GT50 in about March/April this year as well, watched it 100% in THX Cinema mode as well for the first 2-3 months until I did Custom setting. For the first 200-300 hours I tried to vary content to prevent seeing logo's but my son would watch ESPN every morning for about a 30 min clip and my daughter would watch MTV2 in the afternoon for about an hour or so, we also wacth baseball games 3-4 times a week, so I have/had 3 logo's, ESPN, MTV2 and YES (yankees network) as IR.


When we noticed the ESPN logo (which is the worst of the 3) on a pure white sceeen, we pretty much stopped watching ESPN on this TV. I ran the WOW pixel flipper and the IR white/black rolling bars for about two+ months, about every other day for 20 min clips, run a bluray movie of Avator for it's colors and the logo is still there, very faint but when you come up close to the TV and look at an angle on a pure white screen you can see it but only if you know where to look, but it's not noticeable to a person other than me.


What I now do is, anytime we watch something with a logo, we switch to ZOOM every 15-20 minutes for 5 minutes, so that the logo is off the screen or barely there, this seems to be the solution for us as this method still allows us to leave the brightness and contrast levels where we want them in custom mode and I barely use the pixel flipper and IR white rolling bars. Again this works for me and everyone here has their own method to maddness!


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElectroMike*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23581189
> 
> 
> What I now do is, anytime we watch something with a logo, we switch to ZOOM every 15-20 minutes for 5 minutes, so that the logo is off the screen or barely there. . .



That's a smart idea. I'm surprised, though, that the frequent commercial breaks don't serve the same purpose when watching shows with logos.


I watch almost no TV on my plasma, but that will probably change once football season starts. I'm already worried about the score boxes always present on the screen. I'm sure I'll use your zoom trick now and then.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

I used the zoom method when I had a Comcast cable box. Now I have DirecTV, and it doesn't have an "HD Zoom" feature. I'd love to just do it with my TV itself, but "zoom" isn't an available aspect option when watching HD content (only 4:3, 16:9, Screen-Fit, and Wide-Zoom). Wide-Zoom is the closest to what I'm looking for, but it's not quite the same and doesn't really always cut everything off. Logos? I guess so.


Won't know how to control my parents with this one, though. My dad falls asleep to his news channels all of the time, and with extreme purpose too (as in, watches it _so_ he can fall asleep to it). Asking him to do certain things is just too much for him, as it probably is for anybody. I take great care with my own TV in my bedroom, and to the naysayer who claims IR patterns don't change over time, it certainly has for me. Sure, I'm over 2000 hours watched, but


----------



## ElectroMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23581341
> 
> 
> I'm surprised, though, that the frequent commercial breaks don't serve the same purpose when watching shows with logos.
> 
> 
> I watch almost no TV on my plasma, but that will probably change once football season starts. I'm already worried about the score boxes always present on the screen. I'm sure I'll use your zoom trick now and then.



That was my thinking as well, that the commercial breaks will help with pixel refreshement for lack of words but seems like History, Discovery and SciFy keep the logo's thru some of the commercial breaks but the main issue for me is that we DVR all our favorite shows, so we fast forward thru the commercials = almost continuous logo view for the length of the show.


I have to say, the stations are getting ballsier by the minute, I mean does one really need to have two logo's of their networks and do we really need to see a 12"-15" logo in bright colors? That crap really drives me crazy, especially after being more aware of the IR issues, whereas prior to this set, I never noticed now big and bright the logo's are.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Running slides on a new Samsung PN60F8500, got a quick question.


I was trying to run it straight from a USB thumb drive, but every new picture had a quick "Loading..." icon flash before the new slide would show up. I figure over time, that would start leaving some IR on that. Now I'm just doing it with my PS3.


Two questions based on this:


1) Any way I can get rid of that "loading" thing in between slides?


2) Running it on my PS3 has every color 'fade' into the next color, and the pixels never turn off. Is the "turning off" a crucial part of the break-in process that I should consider, that's not happening when I'm doing it with the PS3?


Thanks.


----------



## cyberbri

The slides are just to age all of the pixels evenly during the first 100~ hours. Don't sweat it so much. You're not going to break or harm anything.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23584176
> 
> 
> The slides are just to age all of the pixels evenly during the first 100~ hours. Don't sweat it so much. You're not going to break or harm anything.



I know what they're for, I did it for two plasmas of mine already. I'm just saying that with my previous two, I used the flash drive right into the TV. I can't do it this time because of the "Loading..." thing that pops up every five seconds.


I'm going to be gone for the weekend is all, so I'm wondering if I should leave it on this weekend or not. No single pixel will be shut off for 96+ hours, and neither will my PS3 that's running the slides. That's why I'm curious. If it was just the TV and it shut off between slides and I could check on it every 8-12 hours, that would be one thing. You know?


----------



## fatbottom

I wouldn't risk leaving it on unattended, quite a few people have done that and something has halted and a single fixed screen appeared for hours on end causing screenburn. Wheras before their TV had no damage, running "break in" to prevent damage caused it!


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23584424
> 
> 
> I wouldn't risk leaving it on unattended, quite a few people have done that and something has halted and a single fixed screen appeared for hours on end causing screenburn. Wheras before their TV had no damage, running "break in" to prevent damage caused it!



Totally understand, and will more than likely go along with that sound-sounding advice.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Oh, and another stupid question that I've never seen an answer for, and I've read most of this thread since joining AVS (I've also asked the question, but without an answer):


What's the point of lowering picture settings if you're running break-in slides? There's nothing to worry about, right? It's all uniform anyway. I've just never understood why it shouldn't be set on torch mode at this time to wear in the phosphors of the plasma.


If there is a reason, I've set Brightness and Contrast to 50 (out of 100), and Cell Light to 10 (out of 20). All at 50%. Sound fair enough, or should anything/everything be reduced?


Also, I'm back to considering leaving my PS3 on for the weekend. Isn't it true that after 15 minutes of inactivity the TV will shut off anyway? That's what I have the settings on, at least. I wanted to make sure that would actually be the case if, say, my PS3 decided to shut off on its own. And it's running a slide show, so I have no reason to believe that it will do anything other than run the 120 images over and over and over again.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23579137
> 
> 
> Does putting the panel brightness to low instead of mid offer and extra help for IR prevention combined with the lower contrasts? What about gamma? Any sweet spot? Specifically regarding IR, not in relation to what looks correct for a proper calibration. I ask because I have one setting for movies and what not, and then one setting for regular tv and tv shows with logos. Because I was testing things on low contrast on my ST60 and had it at 25 (looks terrible obviously), brightness at 0, panel brightness at LOW, and gamma at I think 2.4, pixel orbiter ON, overscan ON, and the Investigation Discovery logo still reared its ugly head with some light IR but still clearly visible (on the screen wipe) with probably only 2 hours of my wife watching the channel.



This isn't really a scientific assessment, but in my experience the LOW panel brightness seems to have at least as much IR potential as MID regardless of the fact that it doesn't get as bright. If that's true (and I'd have to really test it more than I have to be sure) I'd imagine it has something to do with the driving method. There's more going on with IR than actual light output; it likely has to do with voltages and other fun electrical details of the panel operation. I can't think of any reason that gamma would impact IR, as the serious IR is caused by full-bright elements (white is worst, but full bright single color is bad too and can actually create IR with a tint). Gamma should only impact the rise from black, not the peak light output.


I know that I've never seen *long-term* IR with the panel at or below 30 on MID, even when used as a desktop display. I spent a few hours the other day preparing a number of graphs in excel and writing up some stuff in Word (why do that on a plasma? Because I can!) and couldn't find any trace of any Windows UI or other static elements when I checked later. If I'm playing a particularly difficult game on the panel (something with ultra-bright static HUDs) I sometimes drop to around 50 and feel pretty safe there, though that's only really a decent brightness at night. I can't say what happens as the number of hours goes way up; I never find myself playing more than like 2 hours of a game even on a weekend binge night, so I suppose it's possible that even at low contrast once you get up to like 30-40 hours of logo exposure it could still stick.


Anyway, when you spot IR in that situation you might want to check for it again after an hour of some other content. I expect that at such low light output it was just some residual charge that could go away within a short span. Usually if the IR is bright (do the residual D would be brighter than the background) you're looking at residual charge, while an inverse ghost (darker D than background) means it'll be around for at least an hour or more.


While we're on the subject I just want to say that it's really obnoxious that so many channels use white logos at this point. And they're mostly ridiculously large. Even if I wasn't worried about IR I'd be complaining, because a bright white element on the screen just ruins the picture overall. Come on network guys, the era of random channel surfing is over for cable/satellite; I know what channel I'm on because I picked it from the guide menu. A cable TV takeover from a tech-savy company like Google or Apple can't come soon enough (and it probably won't considering the hold companies like Comcast have).


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23585559
> 
> 
> Oh, and another stupid question that I've never seen an answer for, and I've read most of this thread since joining AVS (I've also asked the question, but without an answer):
> 
> 
> What's the point of lowering picture settings if you're running break-in slides? There's nothing to worry about, right? It's all uniform anyway. I've just never understood why it shouldn't be set on torch mode at this time to wear in the phosphors of the plasma.
> 
> 
> If there is a reason, I've set Brightness and Contrast to 50 (out of 100), and Cell Light to 10 (out of 20). All at 50%. Sound fair enough, or should anything/everything be reduced?
> 
> 
> Also, I'm back to considering leaving my PS3 on for the weekend. Isn't it true that after 15 minutes of inactivity the TV will shut off anyway? That's what I have the settings on, at least. I wanted to make sure that would actually be the case if, say, my PS3 decided to shut off on its own. And it's running a slide show, so I have no reason to believe that it will do anything other than run the 120 images over and over and over again.



I think the main reason some people say this is that running white slides at 100% light output means the panel's going to get as hot as at possibly can, and potentially stay there for hours at a time (maybe 100 hours if you just run your break-in straight through). Whether or not this is really a concern I can't say, but as a rule you don't try to run a piece of electronics as hot as it can get for extended periods. Honestly I wouldn't really worry about it if you're using the standard slides that have a number of much darker grey shades mixed in, but I also have pretty good temperature control in the room with the TV. You might want to be more careful if your room gets really warm.


I know D-Nice recommends just running them at full contrast on the Panasonics (his instructions usually say to put it on Custom but don't change anything, so it'll be at 100 contrast by default). The goal is to get the panel exercised as much as possible before the calibration, so higher contrast is going to get it done faster.


----------



## kbchurch

I've searched for solutions to my burn-in problem and have not found anything really helpful, so here goes. I have a two year old Panasonic 42ST30 that suffers from a burn-in issue. The left and right columns on the edges of the screen beyond the 4:3 picture is brighter than the interior section. I think the Anti-Image Retention setting "4:3 Side Bars" was set too high for too long a period. My wife chooses the SD channel over the HD often enough. So, with the left and right columns beyond the 4:3 area being a bit too bright is there a way to equalize the brightness? I doubt I can make the edges darker, but can I make the interior match in brightness? Would running a pattern that would brighten the 4:3 section with pixel orbiting off help? Would I create two vertical lines where the dark and light meet? I can get a picture later if it helps explain what's wrong.


Thanks for looking,


kbchurch


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbchurch*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23605517
> 
> 
> I've searched for solutions to my burn-in problem and have not found anything really helpful, so here goes. I have a two year old Panasonic 42ST30 that suffers from a burn-in issue. The left and right columns on the edges of the screen beyond the 4:3 picture is brighter than the interior section. I think the Anti-Image Retention setting "4:3 Side Bars" was set too high for too long a period. My wife chooses the SD channel over the HD often enough. So, with the left and right columns beyond the 4:3 area being a bit too bright is there a way to equalize the brightness? I doubt I can make the edges darker, but can I make the interior match in brightness? Would running a pattern that would brighten the 4:3 section with pixel orbiting off help? Would I create two vertical lines where the dark and light meet? I can get a picture later if it helps explain what's wrong.
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking,
> 
> 
> kbchurch



You know the break-in slides that people use with all of the different colors?


You can create slides that are black on the inside and have the colors on the outside. Your TV would be running through different colors with black in the middle, like this (just in red):


 



Other things you can do to help are:


1) Change the side bars from black to gray in your TV options.


2) Tell your wife to start watching damn HD content lol.


----------



## kbchurch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23605593
> 
> 
> You know the break-in slides that people use with all of the different colors?
> 
> 
> You can create slides that are black on the inside and have the colors on the outside. Your TV would be running through different colors with black in the middle, like this (just in red):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other things you can do to help are:
> 
> 
> 1) Change the side bars from black to gray in your TV options.
> 
> 
> 2) Tell your wife to start watching damn HD content lol.



I would actually need the opposite. I would need colors on the inside and black on the outside so I can raise the interior brightness up to that of the sides. If the built-in screen wipe could only go back and forth along this 4:3 area that would be great, and that the wipe time could be set higher than 15 minutes. I currently have the sidebars set to black as not to get them any lighter.


Yeah, and TWC has their HD channels work all the time with the box we have.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbchurch*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23605612
> 
> 
> I would actually need the opposite. I would need colors on the inside and black on the outside so I can raise the interior brightness up to that of the sides. If the built-in screen wipe could only go back and forth along this 4:3 area that would be great, and that the wipe time could be set higher than 15 minutes. I currently have the sidebars set to black as not to get them any lighter.
> 
> 
> Yeah, and TWC has their HD channels work all the time with the box we have.



Sorry man, but you're doing it the wrong way. The sides aren't brighter because they've been having lighter images, it's because those phosphors haven't aged as much as the phosphors on the inside. They're stronger, therefore they're brighter. You need to age them more.


Emitting blackness means emitting almost nothing, which is what you'd want on the inside. They need to "age less" than the ones on the outside as you run them, so it's necessary that you get some color/work in on the outside so they can start to match up a little bit more.


Again, set the sidebars to light gray. Making it black is making everything worse.


Don't take my word for it; let others chime in and tell you as well.


----------



## kbchurch

Ouch, I thought since the phosphors on the sides had previously been set to high (bright) when viewing 4:3 programming that they had been getting a brighter constant image and therefore got even more burn-in. I set it to low (light) for now. I guess the key is that the more phosphors age the dimmer they become. Now I just need something that will age those and only those phosphors.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23605642
> 
> 
> Sorry man, but you're doing it the wrong way. The sides aren't brighter because they've been having lighter images, it's because those phosphors haven't aged as much as the phosphors on the inside. They're stronger, therefore they're brighter. You need to age them more.
> 
> 
> Emitting blackness means emitting almost nothing, which is what you'd want on the inside. They need to "age less" than the ones on the outside as you run them, so it's necessary that you get some color/work in on the outside so they can start to match up a little bit more.
> 
> 
> Again, set the sidebars to light gray. Making it black is making everything worse.
> 
> 
> Don't take my word for it; let others chime in and tell you as well.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

By the way guys, I have a Disney WOW Pixel Flipper question:


Should I run it at 60Hz or 24Hz/96Hz? I'm wondering because they produce two different looking images. At 60Hz, there is a lot of flicker, which kind of looks cool but I don't know if that's the right effect. When I enable Cinema Smooth (capable for rendering 24 FPS), there isn't any flicker when it's running. It looks a lot more consistent and smooth.


Which one is the proper/recommended setting for what it's trying to do with regard to the actual algorithm?


Thanks.


----------



## cyberbri

If 4:3 content shows up with the black bars on the sides, you can set the TV to display it wide/just so it fills the screen, rather than leaving the bars.


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606037
> 
> 
> By the way guys, I have a Disney WOW Pixel Flipper question:
> 
> 
> Should I run it at 60Hz or 24Hz/96Hz? I'm wondering because they produce two different looking images. At 60Hz, there is a lot of flicker, which kind of looks cool but I don't know if that's the right effect. When I enable Cinema Smooth (capable for rendering 24 FPS), there isn't any flicker when it's running. It looks a lot more consistent and smooth.
> 
> 
> Which one is the proper/recommended setting for what it's trying to do with regard to the actual algorithm?
> 
> 
> Thanks.


That's actually a pretty good question. I wouldn't think it matters that much as long as the static shows up evenly, but who knows, one may work better than the other. I've always just left mine at 60hz. Never thought to try 96hz.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606041
> 
> 
> If 4:3 content shows up with the black bars on the sides, you can set the TV to display it wide/just so it fills the screen, rather than leaving the bars.



That will help alleviate the problem from happening more, but like my plasma downstairs of seven years (and my parents really couldn't care less about IR/burn-in even though there's a lot on this old set), the lighter sides will forever be there.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606052
> 
> 
> That's actually a pretty good question. I wouldn't think it matters that much as long as the static shows up evenly, but who knows, one may work better than the other. I've always just left mine at 60hz. Never thought to try 96hz.



Yeah, I'm just wondering. I'm still breaking in my plasma (have done 170 hours of slides, and am now just trying to do things with the pixels to "work them in," and I feel like maybe the flicker is a good example of having the pixels shut off and on more, even though it looks a bit different and awkward. So I guess I don't know which setting is the recommended one.


I'll basically treat it as a poll. So far, I have one person (you) using 60Hz.


----------



## kbchurch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606041
> 
> 
> If 4:3 content shows up with the black bars on the sides, you can set the TV to display it wide/just so it fills the screen, rather than leaving the bars.



I'm going to give this a try.


----------



## cyberbri

Yeah, it should remember the screen setting for 480i. Good luck.


----------



## kbchurch

So creating those slides like you said muffinmcfluffin may help if I run them for a few hours? Perhaps create one of those long running Youtube videos to wipe the screen for hours. Thanks for the explainations.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kbchurch*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606216
> 
> 
> So creating those slides like you said muffinmcfluffin may help if I run them for a few hours? Perhaps create one of those long running Youtube videos to wipe the screen for hours. Thanks for the explainations.



You have to make sure that you create it PERFECTLY, though. Otherwise you'll get a few vertical columns that are either aged way too much or aged way too little.


And a few hours won't do the trick. How much has your wife watched 4:3 content? That's how much they need to be run for. Maybe over 100 hours for all I know. Either way, any little bit helps.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606077
> 
> 
> That will help alleviate the problem from happening more, but like my plasma downstairs of seven years (and my parents really couldn't care less about IR/burn-in even though there's a lot on this old set), the lighter sides will forever be there.
> 
> Yeah, I'm just wondering. I'm still breaking in my plasma (have done 170 hours of slides, and am now just trying to do things with the pixels to "work them in," and I feel like maybe the flicker is a good example of having the pixels shut off and on more, even though it looks a bit different and awkward. So I guess I don't know which setting is the recommended one.
> 
> 
> I'll basically treat it as a poll. So far, I have one person (you) using 60Hz.



This is an interesting topic. Do more on/off cycles work the panel harder, or more solid on time? The simple answer is that only ON time works the pixels. This is in contradiction to LCD, where any transition (from light to dark or dark to light) is where the work is done. On plasma, work is only being done by the panel while light is being output. So based on this logic I would say that any mode with more visible flicker has less total ON time for each pixel, making it less effective at IR removal (or panel exercise in general). Not a scientific assessment, but in general it should make sense that more flicker can only be caused by less total light output time on the panel. Longer or more frequent pulses by the panel would result in the appearance of less flicker, not more.


I could see the argument for the on/off cycles working the other components of the panel, however it's important to remember that when rendering "solid" white the pixel is actually flashing possibly 100's of times per second, so there's already plenty of on/off going on. And it's really just "on" as the pixels only light up when they're zapped; There's no actual "off" signal that needs to be sent to turn a pixel back off.


In practice, however, the subjectively brightest mode is probably the best option for break-in (for calibration only, has no effect on IR potential) or IR removal. Since the amount of "work" done by the panel is only realistically described in terms of light output, whatever mode produces more visible light for the observer should be the one working the panel hardest. I use a solid white slide on high VSUS (technically I'm always running on high VSUS) if I'm feeling like I need that IR gone now, but I cannot recommend that method to anyone as it's likely taking a risk on the panel's overall health to run it that way.


----------



## RetroGiant

Always a pleasure reading your in depth responses headlesschickens. I've learned a lot from you.


Edit: one question, what is VSUS?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23606416
> 
> 
> This is an interesting topic. Do more on/off cycles work the panel harder, or more solid on time? The simple answer is that only ON time works the pixels. This is in contradiction to LCD, where any transition (from light to dark or dark to light) is where the work is done. On plasma, work is only being done by the panel while light is being output. So based on this logic I would say that any mode with more visible flicker has less total ON time for each pixel, making it less effective at IR removal (or panel exercise in general). Not a scientific assessment, but in general it should make sense that more flicker can only be caused by less total light output time on the panel. Longer or more frequent pulses by the panel would result in the appearance of less flicker, not more.
> 
> 
> I could see the argument for the on/off cycles working the other components of the panel, however it's important to remember that when rendering "solid" white the pixel is actually flashing possibly 100's of times per second, so there's already plenty of on/off going on. And it's really just "on" as the pixels only light up when they're zapped; There's no actual "off" signal that needs to be sent to turn a pixel back off.
> 
> 
> In practice, however, the subjectively brightest mode is probably the best option for break-in (for calibration only, has no effect on IR potential) or IR removal. Since the amount of "work" done by the panel is only realistically described in terms of light output, whatever mode produces more visible light for the observer should be the one working the panel hardest. I use a solid white slide on high VSUS (technically I'm always running on high VSUS) if I'm feeling like I need that IR gone now, but I cannot recommend that method to anyone as it's likely taking a risk on the panel's overall health to run it that way.



I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm thinking more along the end of just working the pixels in general (don't really know if there's such a thing), and not so much just having to do with IR. I wonder if working them "loosens" them more, and gets them to work a bit more dynamically. But again, I clearly just have no idea.


I think I'll go with 24Hz/96Hz then, as there's no real constant flicker when that is enabled.


----------



## Stu03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23606865
> 
> 
> Always a pleasure reading your in depth responses headlesschickens. I've learned a lot from you.
> 
> 
> Edit: one question, what is VSUS?



SUS (SUSTAIN) is the major driving and ageing voltage in the plasma display. A combination of contrast/ageing kind of thing. The higher the sustain the brighter the image but the more aggressive/faster phosphor ageing.


Hope everyone enjoying running in their plasma. I am at 140hrs of evangelos break in slides on my new 50" - on top of the approximate 30hrs of an all white screen. I say new it actually had just over 24hrs on it when i got it home. I am going for at least 250hrs altogether of slides. I am in no hurry i just want it aged as evenly and as nice as possible before a calibration. All i have seen so far except for the all white signal and the slides is the Xbox360 dashboard menu's. But lol today i treated myself to a quick look at a DVD on one of the more accurate AV modes for all of five minutes before switching back to slides again


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stu03*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23609333
> 
> 
> SUS (SUSTAIN) is the major driving and ageing voltage in the plasma display. A combination of contrast/ageing kind of thing. The higher the sustain the brighter the image but the more aggressive/faster phosphor ageing.


Wouldn't a solid white slide with max contrast just activate the ABL thus not pushing it to the "max"? I figured that's why the screen wipe white section is narrow cause with having the black it doesn't enable ABL.


----------



## Stu03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23609973
> 
> 
> Wouldn't a solid white slide with max contrast just activate the ABL thus not pushing it to the "max"? I figured that's why the screen wipe white section is narrow cause with having the black it doesn't enable ABL.



Hi forgot to mention previously i was using an internal service/factory menu all white signal pattern... It's not affected by ABL. I was setting the tv timer to switch to standby after one hour because it gets reasonably hot even with internal fans running. But got fed up with it and just went with the slides... But not for 24/7 because i had to go out some times and wouldn't risk it. So i managed about 12hrs a day - about four on, one off to cool, same again etc


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4530#post_23606052
> 
> 
> That's actually a pretty good question. I wouldn't think it matters that much as long as the static shows up evenly, but who knows, one may work better than the other. I've always just left mine at 60hz. Never thought to try 96hz.


I would agree. I don't think it matters either. You just want the static. I run mine overnight once or twice a month and this handles any nuisance IR on my ST50.


----------



## MonicaJae

I just tried deleting this post to correct an error I made. hopefully it will delet which would render this edit useless...or you will get two! The original and the intended


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Moron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4500#post_23572575
> 
> 
> I just noticed a problem with my 60 inch Panasonic Plasma. I've had the TV for a year and never noticed any problems with it. I moves to a new apartment about a month ago and was watching TV when I noticed that during a scene with an all white background there appeared to be three dark lines in the bottom left corner. They don't extend the entire width of the screen, just in the left hand corner. I thought maybe it was the show I was watching, but I tried watching other channels and playing Xbox and it's still there. It's not very dark and not very big. It's impossible to notice when the background isn't completely white. It almost looks like dirt on the screen. Do you think this is image retention or burn in? I can't think of what could have burned it in. I mean, I can't think of too many TV logos that are in the bottom left corner. Most are in the bottom right. I tried to look closely at it to see if it resembles any logo or anything, but no, it just looks like lines or rectangles. I know the Fox News logo is in the bottom left corner, but it's a rotating logo and I don't watch it for hours at a time. I was thinking maybe there was something in the corner of the Wii menu screen, and there was, but it's more of a circular button. It didn't resemble the lines I was seeing at all. I turned on my Xbox and did see that there were various shades of gray on the menu screen that could possibly cause an after image, but they extended across the whole width of the screen, not just the left corner. I'm trying to think if there's any games I've played that have an image in the left hand corner, but I can't think of any. So, do you guys think this is just image retention that will go away or is it permanently burned in?



Wow--you just described EXACTLY what the bottom left of my 55 inch looks like. And I too am baffled. I finished playing a LOT of BF3 on the xbox. There is nothing about the Battlefield 3 picture that looks even REMOTELY like what is there. Also, I don't watch Fox News. I am watching, now, the Bourne Legacy and before this about an hour of Spongebob with Nick at full screen. TBL is almost over. I still see the "image" and it's just as it was before. It's been about 2 hours now.


I used to turn down the contrast when gaming, maybe to about 50. I normally have it around 79, I use the CNET settings. I decided last night that I am sick of not seeing "unfriendlies" at a distance and missing out on a kill; or, getting killed. I have about 2000 hours on it. Mostly Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network on Full screen or not. And I didn't notice a problem. Plus, my son would play hours of Call of Duty Black Ops, on the settings I would normally run the TV. Not a problem there either. So, I'm stumped, to say the least, and just maybe a little pissed off. I have the ST60.


----------



## LightsOut23

Any owners of the Samsung f8500 have any IR problems? I was planning on buying one but I plan to play games on it, a decent amount too. Any experience on the susceptibility to IR? Really want to make the jump from LED to plasma but I don't want to have to constantly worry about my big investment.


----------



## Stu03

I don't own one but would do if i didn't have the display i have now. But i would run break in slides for the first 150hrs if it was me. Any plasma at any price point. It does even the phosphors evenly and also primes the phosphors for professional calibration by evenly ageing the RGB phosphors.


Some say it's not for IR prevention. But recently on my new 500M which was displaying temporary IR on the Xbox360 dashboard menu's after about 30-60 seconds when it was approximately 24hrs old. I ran Evangelos2's slides for 150 hrs and the IR in the same time frame isn't there anymore so it works for IR as well imho.


Still running them now - i have decided to go for 250hrs with the slides. The longer the better really.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LightsOut23*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23623633
> 
> 
> Any owners of the Samsung f8500 have any IR problems? I was planning on buying one but I plan to play games on it, a decent amount too. Any experience on the susceptibility to IR? Really want to make the jump from LED to plasma but I don't want to have to constantly worry about my big investment.



Mine has 300 hours on it, mostly slides. There has been limited viewing, it's calibrated, and I have run the pixel flipper.


My set gets IR literally within seconds. It goes away, but it's there, so I'm being super cautious for the first 1,000 hours.


----------



## PRO-630HD

Since we are on the image retention subject I have some as well. My Panasonic 65VT60 is about 6 weeks old. It is from my Oppo BDP-103 screen menu as most viewing is from blurays. The Oppo logo is bright white on a black background. I can't dim the screen menu from settings in the player. I just noticed this last night while putting in Disney's WOW calibration disc looking at the Advanced Contrast screen and out of curiosity was flipping through the picture presets and noticed it in vivid mode. Then since I knew it was there I noticed it in the other settings, but was far less perceptible. Cool 2 seems to show the image retention the worst and while Warm 2 hides it the best which is probably why I never noticed it till now. It is also visible in the regular contrast screen and under the purity setting looking at the white screen in the WOW disc. THX Cinema with contrast at 80 is where I watch the set. There probably are a few times when I turned on the player on, got side tracked and put a movie in 20 minutes later, but that is an extreme circumstance. I have never left the menu screen on the set for say 3-4 hours which I would think would be required to cause any type of burn in or image retention. It is the most common static image on my set but usually within 2-4 minutes a disc is inserted and loading in the player.


The Oppo logo isn't seen unless there is a image showing bright whites in the scene and pushing contrast levels. In Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows 2 during chapter 22 (the dream sequence) the logo is clearly noticeable for about 3 seconds and then is gone. I picked that scene as it is full of bright whites and although rare I figured the image would show the logo. Another title The Spy Who Loved Me the logo is barely perceptible for a second or two during chapter 3 of the ski chase in the opening, but if you know where to look it is there. The image retention is not noticeable in any other type of content. I ran Disney's Pixel flipper for 4 hours last night till my TV automatically shut off. I am running it again with the TV in Vivid mode as this seems to be where the image retention is the worst. I figured after that run the screen swipe for at least 4 hours. Oddly enough I will be damned if I can see the Oppo logo during the screen wipe.


Any other recommendation? I read in this thread someone ran test slides in Vivid mode and his image retention went away. Otherwise the TV and player were both set up to prevent any accidental long term static images. The TV shuts off in 10 minutes if there is no signal and the player screen saver setting on the player turns off the video output so the screen goes blank.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

If you have the WOW disc, run the pixel flipper on Vivid mode overnight.


I've been doing the pixel flipper every night, just because. I'm only at about 325 hours on my set, so I want to run it as often as possible while it's still in the early going.


----------



## fatbottom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23642878
> 
> 
> If you have the WOW disc, run the pixel flipper on Vivid mode overnight.
> 
> 
> I've been doing the pixel flipper every night, just because. I'm only at about 325 hours on my set, so I want to run it as often as possible while it's still in the early going.



Just aging the set unnecessarily, and wasting electricity. Use it normally, full screen with no logos, job done.


----------



## IDRick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23643996
> 
> 
> Just aging the set unnecessarily, and wasting electricity. Use it normally, full screen with *no logos*, job done.



The no logos part is the difficult part. I can't think of one cable station in my area that doesn't have logos.... So no logos means no tv! Whoopee! Save on energy, save on tv cost by not buying it....







I think I'll age the panel with the slides...


----------



## fatbottom

  


Like that?


----------



## IDRick

LOL!







They only have one logo but most display it continuously during their programming...


----------



## PogueSquadron

There seems to be conflicting advice about panel brightness and contrast during break-in.


Some say that you should keep them low, while others say you should crank them up, assuming you're not watching any content prone to IR (i.e. sports with scores displayed or logos showing). Regarding slides, is it safe to assume that one can crank the contrast/panel brightness to age the phosphors more quickly?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

I asked the same thing. Check it oot.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23645570
> 
> 
> I asked the same thing. Check it oot.



Are you Canadian?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23645623
> 
> 
> Are you Canadian?



I don't have any recollection of such absurdities, eh.


But no, to answer the guy, I don't think it matters. I started with halfsies just to... I don't know... progressively start working the TV? Kind of like stretching a rubber band. I don't know if phosphors need that kind of stretching out, but that's what I went for anyway.


After about 125 hours, I started brightening up the screen with contrast, cell light, brightness, color, sharpness, etc. while running the slides. I also went from Warm 2 progressively up to Cool (because I believe that "Cool" runs hotter).


----------



## cyberbri

Just a joke, from the "check this oot" (instead of out).


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23645690
> 
> 
> Just a joke, from the "check this oot" (instead of out).



Haha you don't have to explain my own joke to me.










You didn't get the "eh" last time either.


----------



## cyberbri

I noticed the eh, was just being clear.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

I know some people say that IR doesn't improve on sets, but I think my D7000 has debunked that theory. The first 500 hours or so showed hints of IR after watching movies and after playing games. I still baby it, but even after trying in long, long gaming sessions, I can't even get IR if I tried (might be around 3,000 hours).


Maybe my set it just unique in this manner, much like some get zero IR period. My F8500 gets IR almost immediately, but loses it almost immediately as well (though I'm not willing to take any chances by not trying anything with it like the pixel flipper). I'm going to try and work it like my D7000 and see if it improves over time. If not, at least it won't really have uneven wear.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23646044
> 
> 
> I noticed the eh, was just being clear.



Strangely enough, you probably only live like a half hour away from me (I'm in San Mateo).


So if you were just asking if I'm more north than you, then I guess we're all sorted oot!


----------



## tuffluck

I don't know if this is an intuitive statement, but it seems to me like the WOW disc or any slides won't fix severe IR or burn in because they still wear each pixel evenly. I think you'd have to shut off the overaged pixels completely while the rest of them catch up, which to my knowledge there is no way to do. The WOW feature specifically states it will turn on/off every pixel about 25 times per second. So the pixel flipper is doing the same thing to every pixel, and therefore running it for 1 hour or 3 years means every pixel will be treated the same. Not sure how that's going to solve anything unless there is a finite maximum amount of aging every pixel can achieve. But if that were true, then there should in theory be no such thing as burn in since eventually all the other pixels will catch up...


Does anyone have any success in getting the WOW disc (or any utility for that matter) to fix very stubborn IR/burn in that regular TV programming could not fix? Seems to me the answer has got to be "no." I too have burn in or extremely stubborn IR from watching ONE baseball game that has not even remotely diminished in several weeks.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tuffluck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23653777
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is an intuitive statement, but it seems to me like the WOW disc or any slides won't fix severe IR or burn in because they still wear each pixel evenly. I think you'd have to shut off the overaged pixels completely while the rest of them catch up, which to my knowledge there is no way to do. The WOW feature specifically states it will turn on/off every pixel about 25 times per second. So the pixel flipper is doing the same thing to every pixel, and therefore running it for 1 hour or 3 years means every pixel will be treated the same. Not sure how that's going to solve anything unless there is a finite maximum amount of aging every pixel can achieve. But if that were true, then there should in theory be no such thing as burn in since eventually all the other pixels will catch up...
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any success in getting the WOW disc (or any utility for that matter) to fix very stubborn IR/burn in that regular TV programming could not fix? Seems to me the answer has got to be "no." I too have burn in or extremely stubborn IR from watching ONE baseball game that has not even remotely diminished in several weeks.



Well, as I mentioned to you (and somebody else chimed in about), uneven wear is all about the aging of pixels.


Let's use humans as an example, a six year old versus a one year old. One is a child, the other an infant. Fast forward 70 years, and now they're both seniors (at 76 and 71 years old, respectively). They still may be five years apart like they always were, but their ages are much "closer" to each other than before, by association alone.


Or here's a better example (though it's probably not true). Let's say I asked you to drink a 16 fl. oz. bottle of urine. Of course, you wouldn't do it. Now, let's pretend I presented you with a fact that the average amount of water a human drinks in a lifetime contains approximately 16 fl. oz. of urine content in it. Is that gross to hear? I guess... but we don't care, because we aren't aware of it. Or better yet, that content is _so ridiculously minuscule_ over the course of a calendar year that it's simply irrelevant.


Same thing goes with the TV's. Burn-in might be prevalent if you've watched 300 hours of baseball, but it's not the 300 hours that matters. It's the percentage of baseball that you've watched versus everything else you've watched. That's why we call it uneven wear. No pixels will ever all have perfect aging. This is true the second you turn on your television set and it runs through a setup program with you. Even if you're on it for five minutes, there are five minutes of pixels that were used differently everywhere. The reason this ends up being moot in the grand scheme of uneven wear is because your pixels have had relatively much more aging than those five minutes you were on that menu.


Same thing goes for letterbox content (watching 2.35:1 movies). Every time that you watch a two hour film, you have aged your phosphors where the image is displayed considerably more than the phosphors that are just firing black (though I guess those technically have aged more in black lol). If you watch 100 letterbox movies on your set over time, that's 200 hours of uneven wear. In your first 1000 hours, that's 20% of all of your viewing. There's a possible chance that will show up as your top and bottom being lighter than your middle. However, compare it to a panel that has run for 10,000 hours. That means it only accounts for 2% of all viewing, so the phosphors are all aged a bit more closely to each other, even though there is still a 200 hour disparity between these parts of the screen.


Your idea about shutting off these parts of the image won't help. The truth is that every part of your screen always has the phosphors working, no matter what's working them. Static images just means it's running the same thing over and over on those specific phosphors. This is why I'm recommending you run slides with the static area having inverted colors. Whatever was white before will be black. Whatever was purple before will be green. And so on and so forth. Meanwhile, everything else just gets whatever it gets. At least this way, it's getting the opposite of what it was getting before. Whatever is aged very much in RED needs to get some BLUE in it (or whatever the opposite of red is on the color spectrum). That's why I think my theory holds some water. The issue, though, is the control. It needs to be perfect for it to work.


You can't shut off the pixels, but you can make that whole area black if you want. But as I said, that doesn't help do anything for that particular area. All of the phosphors on your screen all run, so it's just not going to do anything.


My advice, as I said, is to create appropriate color slides with a static "inverted" image, then run the WOW pixel flipper from time to time. No matter what, aging your panel can only help it if we are indeed talking about uneven wear. The pixel flipper is nice because it's not "perfectly" even, it's more so random. It's just jogging every single individual pixel however the **** it wants. If it really was perfectly even, more people would probably use this than slides. Slides run things evenly, so although it doesn't help with the randomness, the panel is still technically aging, shortening the disparity between the time with static images and the time without them.


EDIT: Actually, maybe my theory of inversion might only be _okay_, but the best thing to do is run these color slides with the _absence_ of whatever color is burned in from there. In other words, if something burned in white, have every color _but_ white on those parts of the image. It might take a **** ton of files to make this happen, and it might take some serious Photoshop work... but I think that would help even more if you did it right.


----------



## PogueSquadron

If the panel is aged unevenly, couldn't one just run slides until the slide time greatly outweighs the uneven aging time? I'm not talking about burn in or anything. Just as long as you've given the TV enough time so that all of the phosphors were more or less worked at an even level.


So if you watched 50 hours of movies, and then follow it up with 100 hours of slides, is it really any different than running a hundred hours of slides, and then watching 50 hours worth of movies?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PogueSquadron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23654374
> 
> 
> If the panel is aged unevenly, couldn't one just run slides until the slide time greatly outweighs the uneven aging time? I'm not talking about burn in or anything. Just as long as you've given the TV enough time so that all of the phosphors were more or less worked at an even level.
> 
> 
> So if you watched 50 hours of movies, and then follow it up with 100 hours of slides, is it really any different than running a hundred hours of slides, and then watching 50 hours worth of movies?



My post says this exact thing in the secrte tl;dr edition.










To answer your question, in the long run there is not. In the short run, you might have some IR ("residue") you'll have to wipe off the screen if there was something static, but it's the uneven wear I'd be more concerned about at that point.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23643996
> 
> 
> Just aging the set unnecessarily, and wasting electricity. Use it normally, full screen with no logos, job done.


With a lifespan of 100,000 hours, most people don’t have to worry about ageing their panel unnecessarily. I run the Disney WoW pixel flipper every two weeks overnight and this has gotten rid of any nuisance IR on my panel. It also gives me peace of mind


----------



## tuffluck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23656598
> 
> 
> With a lifespan of 100,000 hours, most people don’t have to worry about ageing their panel unnecessarily. I run the Disney WoW pixel flipper every two weeks overnight and this has gotten rid of any nuisance IR on my panel. It also gives me peace of mind



Yay. I just wasted $20 on the WoW disc only to find my DVD player has an auto shut-off feature of 30 minutes. It thinks it isn't working when the pixel flipper is on, so it turns off after 30 minutes. Electronics suck.


----------



## tuffluck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23654046
> 
> 
> Well, as I mentioned to you (and somebody else chimed in about), uneven wear is all about the aging of pixels.
> 
> 
> Let's use humans as an example, a six year old versus a one year old. One is a child, the other an infant. Fast forward 70 years, and now they're both seniors (at 76 and 71 years old, respectively). They still may be five years apart like they always were, but their ages are much "closer" to each other than before, by association alone.
> 
> 
> Or here's a better example (though it's probably not true). Let's say I asked you to drink a 16 fl. oz. bottle of urine. Of course, you wouldn't do it. Now, let's pretend I presented you with a fact that the average amount of water a human drinks in a lifetime contains approximately 16 fl. oz. of urine content in it. Is that gross to hear? I guess... but we don't care, because we aren't aware of it. Or better yet, that content is _so ridiculously minuscule_ over the course of a calendar year that it's simply irrelevant.
> 
> 
> Same thing goes with the TV's. Burn-in might be prevalent if you've watched 300 hours of baseball, but it's not the 300 hours that matters. It's the percentage of baseball that you've watched versus everything else you've watched. That's why we call it uneven wear. No pixels will ever all have perfect aging. This is true the second you turn on your television set and it runs through a setup program with you. Even if you're on it for five minutes, there are five minutes of pixels that were used differently everywhere. The reason this ends up being moot in the grand scheme of uneven wear is because your pixels have had relatively much more aging than those five minutes you were on that menu.
> 
> 
> Same thing goes for letterbox content (watching 2.35:1 movies). Every time that you watch a two hour film, you have aged your phosphors where the image is displayed considerably more than the phosphors that are just firing black (though I guess those technically have aged more in black lol). If you watch 100 letterbox movies on your set over time, that's 200 hours of uneven wear. In your first 1000 hours, that's 20% of all of your viewing. There's a possible chance that will show up as your top and bottom being lighter than your middle. However, compare it to a panel that has run for 10,000 hours. That means it only accounts for 2% of all viewing, so the phosphors are all aged a bit more closely to each other, even though there is still a 200 hour disparity between these parts of the screen.
> 
> 
> Your idea about shutting off these parts of the image won't help. The truth is that every part of your screen always has the phosphors working, no matter what's working them. Static images just means it's running the same thing over and over on those specific phosphors. This is why I'm recommending you run slides with the static area having inverted colors. Whatever was white before will be black. Whatever was purple before will be green. And so on and so forth. Meanwhile, everything else just gets whatever it gets. At least this way, it's getting the opposite of what it was getting before. Whatever is aged very much in RED needs to get some BLUE in it (or whatever the opposite of red is on the color spectrum). That's why I think my theory holds some water. The issue, though, is the control. It needs to be perfect for it to work.
> 
> 
> You can't shut off the pixels, but you can make that whole area black if you want. But as I said, that doesn't help do anything for that particular area. All of the phosphors on your screen all run, so it's just not going to do anything.
> 
> 
> My advice, as I said, is to create appropriate color slides with a static "inverted" image, then run the WOW pixel flipper from time to time. No matter what, aging your panel can only help it if we are indeed talking about uneven wear. The pixel flipper is nice because it's not "perfectly" even, it's more so random. It's just jogging every single individual pixel however the **** it wants. If it really was perfectly even, more people would probably use this than slides. Slides run things evenly, so although it doesn't help with the randomness, the panel is still technically aging, shortening the disparity between the time with static images and the time without them.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually, maybe my theory of inversion might only be _okay_, but the best thing to do is run these color slides with the _absence_ of whatever color is burned in from there. In other words, if something burned in white, have every color _but_ white on those parts of the image. It might take a **** ton of files to make this happen, and it might take some serious Photoshop work... but I think that would help even more if you did it right.



Right, to merge our two theories together, why can't burn in be removed if IR can? Basically if they are both the result of uneven aging, why can't further aging of a burned in set remove that burn in? Would it take more time than the set's lifespan allows?


IR seems to be more of the flash effect on a camera to your eyes. After it goes off you see it in your eyes for a few seconds. It's almost like there was just a momentary burst of light brighter than surrounding light, but nothing really aged more. In fact, if you think about explosions during war, many veterans say for days they saw a bright spot in the parts of their eyes where the explosion was. But it does go away. Maybe it's because of aging, maybe it's because your eyes were just temporarily tricked because of that burst of light. This seems more like what IR is, your eyes being tricked that there is an image on the screen because it was brighter than surrounding areas, but that the TV itself isn't really aged more in that area.


To me burn in seems like the phosphors have actually aged more than surrounding pixels. If that is a true statement, and you watch non-static programming on your set for the rest of the set's lifespan, nothing will get the age of the phosphors the same again unless you can shut off completely the ones that burned in an image. See what I'm saying? I agree with you about the percentages, but am not sure that's necessarily relevant to the point I'm trying to make.


The thing that debunks my theory is "stubborn" IR that last for days or whatever. I think that should be defined as burn in that goes away, and the only reason I think it goes away (and you alluded to this earlier), is that people get lucky watching programming that inverts enough of those pixels in question to make it seemingly go away...or they watch programming that coincidentally ages those phosphors less in some way. I don't think stubborn IR is going to go away because of the WoW disc.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Actually, I think people have defined burn-in as some sputtering of the actual elements in the phosphors (for now, I'll just call them plasma), and it's just "stuck" that way. This is something that doesn't happen on many PDP's anymore. That's why they often say burn-in is pretty nonexistent, and most lean toward IR as what's going on.


The third option that's not often considered is uneven wear, the one that you're defining as burn-in. I think this has to be more heavily considered. Uneven wear can potentially be remedied; burn-in cannot.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23654046
> 
> 
> Same thing goes for letterbox content (watching 2.35:1 movies). Every time that you watch a two hour film, you have aged your phosphors where the image is displayed considerably more than the phosphors that are just firing black (though I guess those technically have aged more in black lol). If you watch 100 letterbox movies on your set over time, that's 200 hours of uneven wear. In your first 1000 hours, that's 20% of all of your viewing. There's a possible chance that will show up as your top and bottom being lighter than your middle.



That is what scares me. I don't play video games on my plasma and I rarely watch 4:3 content, but most of my movie collection is in 2:35 or 2.40:1. I aged my set a good 100 hours with slides and full screen content before I felt comfortable watching even a single letterbox film. Even now I try not watch two of them in a row. If I watch a letterbox film I make sure the next one I watch is full screen. I'm even paranoid about the tiny strips of black on the top and bottom of some 1.85:1 movies.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23660134
> 
> 
> That is what scares me. I don't play video games on my plasma and I rarely watch 4:3 content, but most of my movie collection is in 2:35 or 2.40:1. I aged my set a good 100 hours with slides and full screen content before I felt comfortable watching even a single letterbox film. Even now I try not watch two of them in a row. If I watch a letterbox film I make sure the next one I watch is full screen. I'm even paranoid about the tiny strips of black on the top and bottom of some 1.85:1 movies.



I play by a pretty simple rule: run the scroller for half the time of your film afterward, and always round up.


For example, if you watch The Dark Knight Rises (2 hours and 45 minutes), run the scroller for 90 minutes afterward. It even has 45 minutes of IMAX footage so it fills the screen, but if you're like me and you created a BD version that has a consistent 2.39:1 AR, it's a bit more important.


The more people just turn off the TV after watching a film, the more likely they are to have trouble in the future.


Heck, maybe even run the scroller for a half hour _before_ watching a film as well, to get the phosphors to warm up beforehand.


----------



## Stu03

Ok some advice please...


Was there any magic settled in number for the 9G Kuro's ?.


Here is the story so far on my newish 500M. It had just over 24hrs when i got it home on the 5th July...


I have now put on altogether including the few hours on it when i got it - 351hrs. 266hrs of these have been slides (going for at least 300hrs of slides). 30hrs of non ABL affected internal service menu all white pattern (just one hour at a time with this). And just a few hours of testing and generally mucking around with a few games and up scaled console games and DVD's. No actual real 1080P material as of yet.










But any temporary IR i was getting on the 360 dashboard screen in less than 30secs when i first got it home has stopped within the same time frame now...


Thanks


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

^ I'm lost... what advice are you asking for?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23660312
> 
> 
> I play by a pretty simple rule: run the scroller for half the time of your film afterward, and always round up.
> 
> 
> For example, if you watch The Dark Knight Rises (2 hours and 45 minutes), run the scroller for 90 minutes afterward. It even has 45 minutes of IMAX footage so it fills the screen, but if you're like me and you created a BD version that has a consistent 2.39:1 AR, it's a bit more important.
> 
> 
> The more people just turn off the TV after watching a film, the more likely they are to have trouble in the future.
> 
> 
> Heck, maybe even run the scroller for a half hour _before_ watching a film as well, to get the phosphors to warm up beforehand.


Solid advice.


----------



## Stu03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23661336
> 
> 
> ^ I'm lost... what advice are you asking for?



Was there a magic number (does anyone know) for the 9G Kuro's with regards to hours from new ?


For example the number being banded about for this gen Panasonic consumer plasmas is 300hrs


----------



## tuffluck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23660312
> 
> 
> I play by a pretty simple rule: run the scroller for half the time of your film afterward, and always round up.
> 
> 
> For example, if you watch The Dark Knight Rises (2 hours and 45 minutes), run the scroller for 90 minutes afterward. It even has 45 minutes of IMAX footage so it fills the screen, but if you're like me and you created a BD version that has a consistent 2.39:1 AR, it's a bit more important.
> 
> 
> The more people just turn off the TV after watching a film, the more likely they are to have trouble in the future.
> 
> 
> Heck, maybe even run the scroller for a half hour _before_ watching a film as well, to get the phosphors to warm up beforehand.



What is a "scroller" you are referring to?


The unique thing in my case is that I watched the baseball games for 30% of the life of the TV. So in your example I would have watched the 3 hour movie followed with 9 hours of full screen content with no static images. Didn't help me though.


Odd thing about mine too is that there are 3 separate static images on the baseball game screen. Two of them are bright white, but only the one on the right hand side of the screen has burned in. The other side has been gone for some time, which leads me to believe even more I have a defective screen.


Just an update, I've been looping the WoW disc pretty much 24/7 except the 4-5 hours a day we watch other shows. It's been static now since Saturday. I haven't really noticed any lessening of my IR/burn-in. I will probably do it for the rest of the week before I can conclusively say it is or is not helping.


----------



## Ilovetightbass

People kill me. Scrolling, looping etc. plasma is prone to burn in. Be careful and you can't treat a plasma like a regular tv. I do feel your pain though. Sorry man!


----------



## cyberbri

There's a "screen wipe" in the Picture > Screen Settings menu. There's also the pixel flipper on the Disney WoW disc.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ilovetightbass*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23674500
> 
> 
> People kill me. Scrolling, looping etc. plasma is prone to burn in. Be careful and you can't treat a plasma like a regular tv. I do feel your pain though. Sorry man!



The PQ on my ST60 is amazing, but I do somewhat regret having one of these (ST60) as our main cable/gaming TV and having to baby it and be careful what I do. At least I don't watch much sports, so that's not something I have to deal with.

Turning the Contrast down to 60~ helps cut the risk of IR, a lot at least for me, if I happen to be watching/playing something risky.


----------



## sgtjim57

I, for one, am very happy that Best Buy's offers extended warranties for IR/burn-in. My Panny was 11 1/2 months old when I noticed a News Channel 4 Logo permanently etched onto my beautiful Plasma TV. I did purchase the extended warranty mainly due to the fact I had not for the Sony XBR-6 it was going to replace. The Sony developed the black blurry spots in the screen and did so about a month after the warranty expired. No help for that one, it's in my bedroom where I watch it without my glasses so I no longer am annoyed by the blobs. Within a week of calling Best Buy I had a local television repair company with a new panel replacing my panel in my living room as I watched him do it. This panel looks marvelous however I find myself not watching that channel for my morning news. I also set the original settings to vivid THX or a setting the brightened the output. Having come from an LCD the plasma was just not bright enough on the standard setting. Today it is on standard settings, I have and use the Disney WOW, and I avoid the original cause of the problem. Will this cure the problem, I doubt it. At least I am trying.


----------



## praktik

Ha well I was pretty much without a care until yesterday w/ my ZT- noticed CP24 (24 cable news here in canada) which the gf likes watching in the morning leaving some of the forecast they have static (even through commercials) up in the top right...


Thing is while it was on for a decent run Tuesday morning its been on CP24 most mornings for the time we've had it (probably nearing 2-3k hours on it now) - but I can tell the previous viewings weren't behind it (fairly regular too!) cause I can still see the temperature "26" in the top right.


That has not been the the 3-day-out forecast every day for months..










So I am banning that channel in favour of breakfast television - ran the pixel flipper for 7 hours today and can still see it. Using the scrolling panasonic bar now - given the IR was from black-on-white, is it maybe better to use the pure-white scrolling bar in the menu?


Anyway will report back - expect a few more sessions thurs+friday will do the trick... was hoping just a few hours would do it but it seems I have to keep at it a bit longer...


CP24 is now banned.


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgtjim57*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23678277
> 
> 
> I... Having come from an LCD the plasma was just not bright enough on the standard setting. Today it is on standard settings, I have and use the Disney WOW, and I avoid the original cause of the problem. Will this cure the problem, I doubt it. At least I am trying.



Why don't you try Pixel Jogger, all pixels just need a good evenly effectively break-in and from time to time a reconditioning/maintainance.


You can download one of the mp4 video's in this channel, in the description links (uncheck little tickbox of the sendspace downloader if displayed):
http://www.youtube.com/user/bwon2k10/videos 


Threads: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-break-in-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-for-diy-users-only-w-disclaimer 
http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442 

---

For your plasma, you can use Pixel Jogger 60fps pinknoise 10min:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5_-VhTPPA 


Disable any motion smoother/picture enhancer etc., the source must kept untouched as very fast flickering black/white screens.

If 60fps isn't displayed properly due mediaplayer compatibility, then use the standard 30fps Pixel Jogger versions available on homepage.


Download the mp4 video, put on a usb stick, play with tv usb media player in repeat mode.

Set TV Brightness=MIN and Contrast=MAX, these to effectively switch the Black and White screen most intensive as possible.

Run it for 12hrs-24hrs or more till you don't see any PQ improvements.

Mostly after 12+ hrs, you will see overall PQ improvements, dynamic color picture, brighter, sharper, less/prevent IR etc.

Enjoy!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *praktik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23679049
> 
> 
> So I am banning that channel in favour of breakfast television - ran the pixel flipper for 7 hours today and can still see it. Using the scrolling panasonic bar now - given the IR was from black-on-white, is it maybe better to use the pure-white scrolling bar in the menu?
> 
> 
> Anyway will report back - expect a few more sessions thurs+friday will do the trick... was hoping just a few hours would do it but it seems I have to keep at it a bit longer...
> 
> 
> CP24 is now banned.



My Panny scroll bar times out after a certain amount of time so I just stick with the Disney WoW pixel flipper as I can run it as long as I please.


----------



## praktik

Probably got 12 hours of pixel flipper in...


Can still see it on more mono-colour stretches of where the issue is in the upper right (like an all blue background). Definitely clear when I flip to the panny scrolling bar, the pure white you can make it out still


Still see that "26"!


I'm not overly worried cause I know it was caused by just a few extra hours one morning, so can't be permament - and its ever so slightly fainter...


But was hoping i'd see more improvement after that much pixel flipping!



More tomorrow - all day - and hopefully it'll be mostly on the way out...


This is still in "normal range" of clearing issues like this out right?


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *praktik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23683169
> 
> 
> Probably got 12 hours of pixel flipper in...
> 
> 
> Can still see it on more mono-colour stretches of where the issue is in the upper right (like an all blue background). Definitely clear when I flip to the panny scrolling bar, the pure white you can make it out still
> 
> 
> Still see that "26"!
> 
> 
> I'm not overly worried cause I know it was caused by just a few extra hours one morning, so can't be permament - and its ever so slightly fainter...
> 
> 
> But was hoping i'd see more improvement after that much pixel flipping!
> 
> 
> 
> More tomorrow - all day - and hopefully it'll be mostly on the way out...
> 
> 
> This is still in "normal range" of clearing issues like this out right?



Some people have stubborn IR for a few _months_ before they get rid of it.


----------



## praktik

All i needed to hear...







Its my first rodeo guys bear with me!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *praktik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23683466
> 
> 
> All i needed to hear...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its my first rodeo guys bear with me!



No problem, we are here to help. I agree with muffinmcfluffin, stubborn IR can take sometime to get rid of. If it is really bothersome, you can continue to run the pixel flipper as much as you can.


----------



## sgtjim57

So the ZT's are also "prone" to the same issue. I had hoped the VT's did not but learned the hard way. Still love the picture though...


----------



## Iain-

Great thread. Glad I ran across this thread as I discovered late last week during a grey scale calibration on my Panasonic GT50, that I had either an image burn-in or serious IR problem with an overt channel logo. This was quite disturbing as I thought I was doing everything possible to prevent such an occurrence.


Fortunately, I've since determined that the problem is down to the latter (IR) rather than the former. It's stubbornly persistant though.


What I've done to resolve it is:
Run Panasonic scrolling bar sweep for two 15 minute periods, then.....
Play Ashes 2005 or Ashes Glory 2006-07 DVD box sets (Aussie release) up-converted to 1080P RGB. These are ideal for me as they are all I have that are full screen 16:9 and no static image content. Ashes 2010-11 box set has static image content, so I avoid that. Also, each DVD is 3-4 hours in length so I just let it run during the day.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_hi_3?rh=n%3A283926%2Cn%3A!573406%2Cn%3A295573011%2Cn%3A1027576&bbn=1027576&ie=UTF8&qid=1377883881 
Finish with a single, 15 minute Panasonic scrolling bar sweep


I've followed this procedure daily since Sunday and the IR is now significantly diminished. Two more days of this and it should be gone-for-good.










Fortunately, I added a quality, secondary Samsung LED monitor to my system earlier this month. Reckon I'll use that to watch TV instead.


My 2p.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgtjim57*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23684638
> 
> 
> So the ZT's are also "prone" to the same issue. I had hoped the VT's did not but learned the hard way. Still love the picture though...


From what I have read ZTs are very IR resistant but I don't really know because I own a ST50 and not a ZT. Many would argue that the 2012 Pannys are prone to IR but I've been lucky with my panel so far.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tuffluck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4560#post_23653777
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is an intuitive statement, but it seems to me like the WOW disc or any slides won't fix severe IR or burn in because they still wear each pixel evenly. I think you'd have to shut off the overaged pixels completely while the rest of them catch up, which to my knowledge there is no way to do. The WOW feature specifically states it will turn on/off every pixel about 25 times per second. So the pixel flipper is doing the same thing to every pixel, and therefore running it for 1 hour or 3 years means every pixel will be treated the same. Not sure how that's going to solve anything unless there is a finite maximum amount of aging every pixel can achieve. But if that were true, then there should in theory be no such thing as burn in since eventually all the other pixels will catch up...
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any success in getting the WOW disc (or any utility for that matter) to fix very stubborn IR/burn in that regular TV programming could not fix? Seems to me the answer has got to be "no." I too have burn in or extremely stubborn IR from watching ONE baseball game that has not even remotely diminished in several weeks.



Not sure if i'm just repeating what you just said, but, I totally agree, wouldn't it just be like saying that since they are aging the set at the same rate, wouldn't they age the IR/burn-in as well? In essence, one would need to age EXACTLY the phosphors around the IR, get the reverse of the IR in that flipper/jogger/scroller, and run that for a while so that the other phosphors have a chance to catch up. So, is this the same as the other theory with the "urine" analogy, does brightness offer more aging of that particular area of the screen?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23680321
> 
> 
> Why don't you try Pixel Jogger, all pixels just need a good evenly effectively break-in and from time to time a reconditioning/maintainance.
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> For your plasma, you can use Pixel Jogger 60fps pinknoise 10min:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5_-VhTPPA
> 
> 
> Download the mp4 video, put on a usb stick, play with tv usb media player in repeat mode.
> 
> Set TV Brightness=MIN and Contrast=MAX, these to effectively switch the Black and White screen most intensive as possible.
> 
> Run it for 12hrs-24hrs or more till you don't see any PQ improvements.
> 
> Mostly after 12+ hrs, you will see overall PQ improvements, dynamic color picture, brighter, sharper, less/prevent IR etc.
> 
> Enjoy!



I did download that video, and not sure if this was me, but it was about one second of flash and black all the way through. IDK maybe my TV but I don't think so.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23656598
> 
> 
> With a lifespan of 100,000 hours, most people don’t have to worry about ageing their panel unnecessarily. I run the Disney WoW pixel flipper every two weeks overnight and this has gotten rid of any nuisance IR on my panel. It also gives me peace of mind



I honestly hope that really is the case. Also, could you give an example of nuisance IR that you've had?


I wish I had the money to pay for at least a very used Pioneer Kuro. I had an experience where I went to my son's orientation day at school and noticed that all the TV's on campus were Pioneer Kuros, and from what I could see, NONE of them had even faint IR or burn-in. They had actually been there the whole time since my first visit to the school months before, yet didn't know their amazingness until researching plasmas. I'm sure these TV's had also been there for a good number of years since they are no longer manufactured?


----------



## praktik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23685321
> 
> 
> From what I have read ZTs are very IR resistant but I don't really know because I own a ST50 and not a ZT. Many would argue that the 2012 Pannys are prone to IR but I've been lucky with my panel so far.



Ya actually I'd echo this - my IR is almost gone - will do a bit more pixel flipping but just keeping watching probably would do it on its own in a little while anyway...


Was surprising cause months of intensive use never caused any issue, just one bad morning and one bad channel did it! I am still confident in the product.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23695103
> 
> 
> I honestly hope that really is the case. Also, could you give an example of nuisance IR that you've had?
> 
> 
> I wish I had the money to pay for at least a very used Pioneer Kuro. I had an experience where I went to my son's orientation day at school and noticed that all the TV's on campus were Pioneer Kuros, and from what I could see, NONE of them had even faint IR or burn-in. They had actually been there the whole time since my first visit to the school months before, yet didn't know their amazingness until researching plasmas. I'm sure these TV's had also been there for a good number of years since they are no longer manufactured?


I’ve used the WoW pixel flipper to deal with nuisance IR from the History channel logo. It worked great. I’ve also found that I get more IR when my ST50 is just turned on and still cold. This past Saturday I turned the pixel flipper on an hour before I started watching the opening weekend of College football. My panel was good and warmed up before I started abusing it with banner filled programming. This seemed to help with IR quite a bit.


----------



## Iain-

So which would be the most effective tool, WOW Pixel Flipper or Panasonic Pixel Orbiter?


I've kept the latter, as well as most everything else, turned off my GT50 since initial installation in January.


----------



## cyberbri

The orbiter just shifts the picture up/down/left/right by a few pixels every little while. It can help prevent IR somewhat, but just by moving the image slightly, so if you do get IR it is a little blurry and a little more spread out.


The WoW Pixel Flipper will exercise the pixels very rapidly and help get rid of IR over time.


----------



## fatbottom

Pixel shifter won't do anything for a object that is larder than the high contrast object. For example if you display a 5cm x 5cm pure white square, and leave it on for a few hours, with the the orbiter on. So channels like Euro news with the large white circle will get cause screenburn


----------



## Chise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23685321
> 
> 
> From what I have read ZTs are very IR resistant but I don't really know because I own a ST50 and not a ZT. Many would argue that the 2012 Pannys are prone to IR but I've been lucky with my panel so far.


All of them prone for burn-in.


----------



## fatbottom

What are PX's like? Panasonic VIERA TXP42X50B


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23697434
> 
> 
> All of them prone for burn-in.


I don't believe any modern plasma panel is prone to burn-in. Most issues people are experiencing are related to stubborn IR.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23697906
> 
> 
> I don't believe any modern plasma panel is prone to burn-in. Most issues people are experiencing are related to stubborn IR.



This is actually pretty inspiring and relieving-provided that is really the case. I am trying to get rid of an image that is retained on my screen and it's been about 12 hours of a scrolling, very white (whiter and brighter than the screen wipe feature from panasonic) and the screen wipe feature. Also i downloaded some pixel flippers from youtube.com. Is any one better than the other? Is the screen wipe/wash feature as effective as say the RGB flippers we see out there? I'm thinking maybe the flippers would do a better job, however i don't see any real improvement, but you are saying that improvement is possible and also very probable?


Thanks for your contributions, btw, i look forward to seeing your posts because they lend a positive outlook on a pretty negative and problematic issue.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23696149
> 
> 
> I’ve used the WoW pixel flipper to deal with nuisance IR from the History channel logo. It worked great. I’ve also found that I get more IR when my ST50 is just turned on and still cold. This past Saturday I turned the pixel flipper on an hour before I started watching the opening weekend of College football. My panel was good and warmed up before I started abusing it with banner filled programming. This seemed to help with IR quite a bit.



I have to say after reading that last line my lungs did a nice long sigh of relief lol. I think that my issue could be partially from using a "cold" screen. i normally have the tv set to turn off after 10 minutes of no activity. this is because sometimes i fall asleep with the controller in my hands while playing Full House Poker on the xbox.







next time i'll be more attentive to that, thanks. that actually makes sense


----------



## praktik

So ya its all gone now. Just had acute pressure to clear it as my parents were coming for the weekend like, RIGHT after it happened and my dad had only heard how awesome the set was and I really wanted to show it off in a perfect state.


By the time they got here it was really muted and I had to find just the right moment to point it out - but ya by the end of the weekend was really impossible to see and now?


ALL GONE


----------



## Iain-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *praktik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23710047
> 
> 
> So ya its all gone now. Just had acute pressure to clear it as my parents were coming for the weekend like, RIGHT after it happened and my dad had only heard how awesome the set was and I really wanted to show it off in a perfect state.
> 
> 
> By the time they got here it was really muted and I had to find just the right moment to point it out - but ya by the end of the weekend was really impossible to see and now?
> 
> 
> ALL GONE



This has been my experience of it as well. No IR left on my display.










In order to keep it that way, I no longer watch TeeVee on my GT50 and I run the scrolling bar once or twice a week to keep the demons away. LOL!


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *praktik*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4590#post_23683169
> 
> 
> Probably got 12 hours of pixel flipper in...
> 
> 
> Can still see it on more mono-colour stretches of where the issue is in the upper right (like an all blue background). Definitely clear when I flip to the panny scrolling bar, the pure white you can make it out still
> 
> 
> Still see that "26"!
> 
> 
> I'm not overly worried cause I know it was caused by just a few extra hours one morning, so can't be permament - and its ever so slightly fainter...
> 
> 
> But was hoping i'd see more improvement after that much pixel flipping!
> 
> 
> 
> More tomorrow - all day - and hopefully it'll be mostly on the way out...
> 
> 
> This is still in "normal range" of clearing issues like this out right?



So lemme get this straight, the channel was both on during the 2-3K hours every morning you had this tv AND only a couple of hours one morning? I'm confused. Because in your latest post you say it's all gone, well, if that's the case, then awesome, I have nothing to worry about given my couple of weeks playing a game with a static hud. It sounds like yours would have been a lot worse, and if it is all gone using the flipper, then, like I said, no worries here.


----------



## MonicaJae

I'm actually frustrated and kinda surprised that I have any "IR" at all to begin with. I didn't start playing video games on it until after about 1000 hours. Is the disney pixel flipper like having static? If that is the case, I have static dl'd from youtube and will play those. The (hopefully) stubborn IR is still very noticeable, but only by using a white scroll bar for about 15 hours. when i put on the screen wipe, it is very apparent.


----------



## praktik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23710161
> 
> 
> So lemme get this straight, the channel was both on during the 2-3K hours every morning you had this tv; or only a couple of hours one morning? I'm confused. Because in your latest post you say it's all gone, well, if that's the case, then awesome, I have nothing to worry about given my couple of weeks playing a game with a static hud. It sounds like yours would have been a lot worse, and if it is all gone using the flipper, then, like I said, no worries here.



Ya bit of a misreading/awkward phrasing


That was total hours on the set, the high number.


CP24, the offending channel, was on most mornings w/o issue.


Just one day it was on longer.


Of course content was much more varied than just our morning habits - but nothing else including gaming and the previous times we watched the same channel had any visible impact.


I only used the flipper a bit on day 1 and 2. It went away just from varied content and time. After 4 was really really hard to see. Now I cant see it at all. I'm sure if I didnt have the WOW disc just normal viewing would have done it.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MonicaJae*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23710282
> 
> 
> I'm actually frustrated and kinda surprised that I have any "IR" at all to begin with. I didn't start playing video games on it until after about 1000 hours. Is the disney pixel flipper like having static? If that is the case, I have static dl'd from youtube and will play those. The (hopefully) stubborn IR is still very noticeable, but only by using a white scroll bar for about 15 hours. when i put on the screen wipe, it is very apparent.



I think it flashes every color, and does it 24 times a second. Not just black, white, and maybe shades of gray at probably a slower rate.


----------



## MonicaJae

I hate to be the "over poster", so to speak, but I have an entirely _new_ issue related to this! It just seems to get worse and worse. I have had the tv on since yesterday afternoon--screen wiping, pixel flipping, normal viewing...i just finished another little stint of screen wiping when I decided that I wanted to watch some TV. So I switch over to the guide, I have xfinity, and on most occasions i get no residual anything--especially after just a couple of seconds--ten at the most. I exited the guide and channel surfed a little and found a show to watch and the picture was of a camera panning some forest from the sky. I was looking intently at the beautiful scenery when I noticed that the xfinity symbol from the guide and almost every aspect of the guide was showing through the picture!!??!! That is a new one on me. That in itself was never a problem. And I know just from reading anywhere that IR is not covered by panasonic, bla bla, but has anybody ever heard of this? Especially since I've had this TV since the beginning of May and have had it on almost nonstop in that time!


----------



## praktik

So my IR also had me learning new stuff about my TV - like I could be in the guide and then run the Panasonic scrolling bar right after and see my service provider logo in the top right!


After a few moments goes away. Got me thinking about how this could be happening all the time on the panel without me having noticed it - and how motion and everything just looks SO SOLID with this same behaviour happening....


Figured it was more about me starting to pixel peep so closely, didn't worry about it after - havent really seen it since...


----------



## MonicaJae

Yeah, so I'm kinda, just a little bit, freaking out over here... I thought it was getting a little bit better. I don't have the WoW pixel flipper, but I have been using other "flippers" and rgb videos that i've downloaded for about 24 hours straight; now I'm taking another approach and looping music on the xbox with the visualizations on. I like the visualizations because, 1. they are in constant motion 2. are in every possible color there is under the sun and 3. extremely bright.


I still notice the image right there in the front left corner. Here's a pic:

 


Not sure how definitive this is, but just to give you some perspective this was about 5 days ago. Here is now:

 


Maybe I should use the same background. I'll try, but hopefully one could get and idea. thanks


----------



## MonicaJae

Anyone?



I think I may have Asked this question before actually im sure i have, but I need to know somebody out there has ever had really stubborn image retention that took really long time to get rid of and when I say that like longer than a week or two but it definitely did go away that they can actually report. I would really appreciate info related to experience about this. It seems that most have only spoken of others' problems or kind of vaguely or not very matter of factly. So to beat a dead horse, because I really think these forums' purpose is to address these particulars I'm gonna be annoying and redundant about this issue until I gt some sort of reply. Has anyone, say had a static HUD or image that was obviously visible and have actually gotten rid of it? I have the ST60. I can live with a "yeah I did but it took a month but DID eventually disappear." I need a real description of the IR that was present.

Please.


And if my pics aren't good enough it's really a function of my camera an not, IMO an over reaction. And so what if it was? I've read other posts that repeat to get a functional answer.

TIA


----------



## fatbottom

In my experience screen and uneven wear can take months, from my Pioneer 5090 uneven 4:3 border wear that took 6 months of normal use, same again for an earlier gen Pioneer with BBC news white border burn in, still noticeable after months but much less, to the point of not being visible unless you really look for it.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatbottom*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620_60#post_23719781
> 
> 
> In my experience screen and uneven wear can take months, from my Pioneer 5090 uneven 4:3 border wear that took 6 months of normal use, same again for an earlier gen Pioneer with BBC news white border burn in, still noticeable after months but much less, to the point of not being visible unless you really look for it.



fatbottom, thanks for that reply; it helps more than you know. After about 10 hours of the xbox music visualization, which i would have run anyway, i think there is maybe _some_ slight fade. it looks like it could be really affective. there isn't any bad result from it anyway and i run all the other videos too. won't be sure for a little while, which it obviously could be. but at least there's the happy chance that it will go away, and i think i'm starting to trust this whole "panels _have_ gotten better in the last couple of years thing. i just am such a noob at this. even though i researched the heck out of it. of course some could never anticipate something they've never been through.


Just curious. does burn in fade at all or is it a pretty consistent full time thing? is that what seperates it from IR? If thati's the case, then i think i may definitely have IR. (yay) REEEEal reeeal stubborn though. of course i wouldn't know until I know. I'm avoiding looking for it now, although sometimes i catch myself stealing a peek. there wouldn't be much i could do about it anyway right? Thanks again










grr i spoke too soon there it is oi


----------



## tuffluck

Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).


I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.


Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tuffluck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4600_50#post_23720384
> 
> 
> Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).
> 
> 
> I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.
> 
> 
> Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...



If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.

Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.

As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.

I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.


You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:

My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.

Thats All.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tuffluck*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23720384
> 
> 
> Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).
> 
> 
> I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.
> 
> 
> Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...



You still don't want to try the "reverse image" idea that I presented?


I can help create the slides for you, but I need that FOX Sports Rangers logo (in the exact position where it is on your television, no less). Maybe we can make it happen. In theory, that should help it quite a bit.


----------



## RetroGiant

The way I have pretty much avoided anything other than slight IR just a couple times on my ST60 that fades pretty quickly, is simply running the contrast really low if there are static images. And then if i remember before I go to bed I just put the tv on a 90 minute time and let the screen wipe run.


Sure the picture isn't quite optimal and I understand the "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS" but it saves me the headache of the chance of developing IR. My wife and I played Lego Lord of the Rings for about 2.5-3 hours this weekend. Tons of static images/huds all over the screen, biggest test I've had and I had no IR whatsoever. Still that night, just to be safe, ran screen wipe as I went to bed for 90 minutes.


I basically have 3 settings I use.


Home Theater: This is my movie/no static images setting : Contrast at about 77-80 with various other settings slightly tweaked.

Cinema: When there is a show I care about such as Sons of Anarchy or Breaking Bad but it still has a station logo. Contrast at 60. Other settings tweaked.

Custom: When we aren't watching anything in particular and are on bad logo stations (history, discovery, ID, E!, etc.) or sports I use this. Contrast at 35-40. I use custom cause it allows me to tweak more settings since I'm lowering the contrast so much.


I've followed those settings since I've had the tv and results concerning IR have been really, really good. I'm probably OVER doing it with the contrast that low but it gives me peace of mind.


If anything for the ST60 I'm starting to notice line bleed much more. Wish certain settings could help eliminate that.


At times I feel I should have gotten an LCD but I keep remembering the clouding and poor off angle viewing of them and then I watch a movie off angle on my plasma and it looks amazing and my faith is restored. Its just a trade off. Pick your poison. Just be proactive in minimizing your chances or IR and don't go looking for it. Its just the nature of the beast with plasma. At least for IR we can do steps in order to minimize/prevent/remedy the issues.


Rambling over


----------



## tuffluck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23722466
> 
> 
> You still don't want to try the "reverse image" idea that I presented?
> 
> 
> I can help create the slides for you, but I need that FOX Sports Rangers logo (in the exact position where it is on your television, no less). Maybe we can make it happen. In theory, that should help it quite a bit.



At this point probably not, I mean it's definitely diminishing, so hopefully that means it will at some point in time go away (after all burn-in wouldn't diminish at all as I understand it). We'll see though, and maybe you and I can try this down the road. Thanks for the help either way.


----------



## smeg36




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23721023
> 
> 
> If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.
> 
> Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.
> 
> As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.
> 
> I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.
> 
> 
> You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:
> 
> My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.
> 
> Thats All.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442



I downloaded and ran that for a while yesterday just to mix things up in hopes it would help with the IR I have on my Panasonic 60ST60. I'm a little worried about it causing seizures though







. I, too, have the Fox Sport logo in the upper right of my screen (Marlins in my case). I'm really annoyed with Fox Sports right now, their logo is terrible for IR. Even my Kuro 5020FD gets a little IR from it. I've been running the screen wipe, pixel flipper, and various IR removal videos from YouTube for probably 200-300 hours (without watching another game on the ST60) since I noticed the IR. It's diminished significantly, but it still noticeable on a bright white screen.


----------



## chunon

That fox sports logo is causing problems on multiple models sadlly, add VT50 and VT60 to the list. As far as the pixel jogger above it may reduce IR but any other claims have been debunked.


----------



## sublimerocks86

I'm sorry to ask but is this the Fox Sports logo that is in the upper right corner during NFL games as well? I've only got about 150 hours on my 50s60 and with the NFL this weekend, I want to be able to watch the games on Fox with limited worry if possible.


For what it's worth, I have the WOW disc.


Thanks.


----------



## smeg36




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sublimerocks86*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23724411
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to ask but is this the Fox Sports logo that is in the upper right corner during NFL games as well? I've only got about 150 hours on my 50s60 and with the NFL this weekend, I want to be able to watch the games on Fox with limited worry if possible.
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I have the WOW disc.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Probably, I haven't watched a football game on Fox Sports. I think they may have changed the logo sometime recently, I haven't really paid attention to it before. I don't think it would've been a problem if I had run the pixel flipper overnight every week, but I went a few months watching a 3 hour game almost every day. I varied my content with another 4 or so hours of other content between games, but apparently that wasn't enough to negate the Fox Sports logo.


----------



## paligap

I had my heart set on getting a plasma for all the usual reasons, but I watch a particular news channel several hours a day that features a white bar with a logo at the top of the screen and sometimes a ticker at the bottom. I also watch sports on channels with logos and score boxes. I'm just not prepared to have to deal with burn-in, IR, or any other variation of this problem. Too bad.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smeg36*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23724921
> 
> 
> Probably, I haven't watched a football game on Fox Sports. I think they may have changed the logo sometime recently, I haven't really paid attention to it before. I don't think it would've been a problem if I had run the pixel flipper overnight every week, but I went a few months watching a 3 hour game almost every day. I varied my content with another 4 or so hours of other content between games, but apparently that wasn't enough to negate the Fox Sports logo.


If it is already fading, it will likely fade entirely over time.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23725741
> 
> 
> I had my heart set on getting a plasma for all the usual reasons, but I watch a particular news channel several hours a day that features a white bar with a logo at the top of the screen and sometimes a ticker at the bottom. I also watch sports on channels with logos and score boxes. I'm just not prepared to have to deal with burn-in, IR, or any other variation of this problem. Too bad.


Don't let this thread change your mind. I purchased my first plasma this year and couldn't be happier. It puts my LCDs to shame, granted they are a several years older. If Panasonic doesn't float your boat the higher end Samsung plasma panels are good and highly IR resistant as well.


----------



## Spidergames

cuda, he should be scared, there is 50/50 chance he could end with a burn in, if he doesn't break it in right....


----------



## chunon

And your statistics come from where ?


----------



## paligap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23727549
> 
> 
> Don't let this thread change your mind. I purchased my first plasma this year and couldn't be happier. It puts my LCDs to shame, granted they are a several years older. If Panasonic doesn't float your boat the higher end Samsung plasma panels are good and highly IR resistant as well.



It's not just this thread. I've been following the plasma threads for months, if not years. I've also researched countless other sources. I'm well aware of all the advantages of plasma; that's why I have wanted to get one. But in all this discussion about "breaking it in right," running pixel flippers or wipers, or zooming to avoid logos, leads me to conclude that burn-in or IR is still a problem. I've also read many authoritative sources say over and over again that breaking it in right has nothing to do with preventing these issues.


If all I watched were movies or channels without potentially harmful logos, I'd get one in a second. But I've never read anybody say, "I watch a channel with bright, static logos and tickers several hours a day, and I've never had any problems with burn-in or IR." If there are any of you out there, I'd love to hear about your experiences.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spidergames*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23727597
> 
> 
> cuda, he should be scared, there is 50/50 chance he could end with a burn in, if he doesn't break it in right....


This forum is very informative but can definitely make a plasma newbie hesitant in partaking in such great technology . 50/50 chance of burn-in, how do you know this? I admit I am new to plasma panels but I disagree that there is a 50/50 chance of burn-in. In fact, I’ve never heard of such a thing. I personally think you have to really abuse a panel to get true burn-in. Most people are experiencing stubborn IR. The 2012 Pannys seem to prone to IR but Samsung makes decent plasma panels as well. That said, I have a 2012 Panasonic ST50 and love it. I have no discernible IR unless I am deliberately checking for it with color slides. Even then it is only apparent on two slides and quickly vanishes. I aged my panel with color slides and had it professionally calibrated. I watch whatever I want and use my Xbox as I see fit. For me, IR has not been a problem on my panel.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23727775
> 
> 
> It's not just this thread. I've been following the plasma threads for months, if not years. I've also researched countless other sources. I'm well aware of all the advantages of plasma; that's why I have wanted to get one. But in all this discussion about "breaking it in right," running pixel flippers or wipers, or zooming to avoid logos, leads me to conclude that burn-in or IR is still a problem. I've also read many authoritative sources say over and over again that breaking it in right has nothing to do with preventing these issues.
> 
> 
> If all I watched were movies or channels without potentially harmful logos, I'd get one in a second. But I've never read anybody say, "I watch a channel with bright, static logos and tickers several hours a day, and I've never had any problems with burn-in or IR." If there are any of you out there, I'd love to hear about your experiences.


Keep in mind that people who come to this forum and forums like it are in the minority of plasma owners. The majority of plasma owners are likely very pleased with their purchase and are not the least bit concerned with IR or burn-in or for that matter searching various forums about the topic.


----------



## Spidergames




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728000
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that people who come to this forum and forums like it are in the minority of plasma owners. The majority of plasma owners are likely very pleased with their purchase and are not the least bit concerned with IR or burn-in or for that matter searching various forums about the topic.





I have a small LG Plasma in my room that I didn't bother to break in, that has a letter box burn in and I have 58 Samsung that I bought in 010, that I try to make sure it didn't get any burn in, but it did get a 4:3 bar burn in, at that time i didn't know what mode I'd left it on or what ever, but am going to try again with a VT60 and I'm hopeful that a burn in wont happen on that TV....


----------



## Skylinestar

90% of my tv channels are in 4:3 aspect ratio. Is plasma suitable for me?


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spidergames*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728057
> 
> 
> I have a small LG Plasma in my room that I didn't bother to break in, that has a letter box burn in and I have 58 Samsung that I bought in 010, that I try to make sure it didn't get any burn in, but it did get a 4:3 bar burn in, at that time i didn't know what mode I'd left it on or what ever, but am going to try again with a VT60 and I'm hopeful that a burn in wont happen on that TV....



LG Plasmas are notorious for bad IR at least they used to be, uneven aging from 4:3 content is unavoidable if you watch alot of 4;3 content it is just the nature of plasma technology. But I want to point out it is not IR or burn-in it is uneven pixel wear.


----------



## Iain-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23725741
> 
> 
> I had my heart set on getting a plasma for all the usual reasons, but I watch a particular news channel several hours a day that features a white bar with a logo at the top of the screen and sometimes a ticker at the bottom. I also watch sports on channels with logos and score boxes. I'm just not prepared to have to deal with burn-in, IR, or any other variation of this problem. Too bad.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23727549
> 
> 
> Don't let this thread change your mind. I purchased my first plasma this year and couldn't be happier. It puts my LCDs to shame, granted they are a several years older. If Panasonic doesn't float your boat the higher end Samsung plasma panels are good and highly IR resistant as well.



Indeed.


I finally received my steelbook of "Star Trek: Into Darkness" earlier this week.


I just couldn't wait, so later in the evening I watched the first 15 minutes of it on my GT50 and was stunned by the colour saturation and image clarity I was witnessing.


That 15 minutes made it all worth it, despite the IR problems I've had over the past month.


FWIW, IR has completely dissipated on my display anyway. It's a past issue and I've moved on.


@paligap, don't let all the posts in this thread dissuade you from investing in the finest display medium available. Just be aware of the potential, take a few minor precautions and you'll be fine.


BTW, I've appropriated the secondary system monitor, a cheap Samsung LED set, to watch TeeVee on. Funnily, I purchased it in late July for reasons unrelated to IR.


----------



## paligap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23727856
> 
> 
> This forum is very informative but can definitely make a plasma newbie hesitant in partaking in such great technology . 50/50 chance of burn-in, how do you know this? I admit I am new to plasma panels but I disagree that there is a 50/50 chance of burn-in. In fact, I’ve never heard of such a thing. I personally think you have to really abuse a panel to get true burn-in. Most people are experiencing stubborn IR. The 2012 Pannys seem to prone to IR but Samsung makes decent plasma panels as well. That said, I have a 2012 Panasonic ST50 and love it. I have no discernible IR unless I am deliberately checking for it with color slides. Even then it is only apparent on two slides and quickly vanishes. I aged my panel with color slides and had it professionally calibrated. I watch whatever I want and use my Xbox as I see fit. For me, IR has not been a problem on my panel.



Thanks, Cuda, but unless watching whatever you want includes watching a channel with bright, static logos several hours a day, I'm not convinced. Doing so might be considered "abuse" among plasma owners, but that's part of my viewing habits. If owning a plasma means I have to change my viewing habits, well, it's a no-go.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iain-*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728241
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> I finally received my steelbook of "Star Trek: Into Darkness" earlier this week.
> 
> 
> I just couldn't wait, so later in the evening I watched the first 15 minutes of it on my GT50 and was stunned by the colour saturation and image clarity I was witnessing.
> 
> 
> That 15 minutes made it all worth it, despite the IR problems I've had over the past month.
> 
> 
> FWIW, IR has completely dissipated on my display anyway. It's a past issue and I've moved on.
> 
> 
> @paligap, don't let all the posts in this thread dissuade you from investing in the finest display medium available. Just be aware of the potential, take a few minor precautions and you'll be fine.
> 
> 
> BTW, I've appropriated the secondary system monitor, a cheap Samsung LED set, to watch TeeVee on. Funnily, I purchased it in late July for reasons unrelated to IR.



Thanks, Iain-. So you did have IR? What caused it?


I have a Sony KDS-60a3000 that still works fine, but I know that there are better displays out there now. Unfortunately, I don't have space for a secondary monitor to watch TV.


----------



## Spidergames

I miss my KDS-60a3000, outstanding picture, believe me when I tell u this, there is no Plasma or full LED that comes close to too it, thats out right now... I don't know about Elilte or ZT60, but the others tvs, A3000 has them beat....


----------



## paligap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spidergames*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728709
> 
> 
> I miss my KDS-60a3000, outstanding picture, believe me when I tell u this, there is no Plasma or full LED that comes close to too it, thats out right now... I don't know about Elilte or ZT60, but the others tvs, A3000 has them beat....



Spidergames, I agree that it has a great picture. What I don't like are its viewing angles. That's why I have been avoiding LCDs and leaning toward plasmas, among other reasons.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728620
> 
> 
> Thanks, Cuda, but unless watching whatever you want includes watching a channel with bright, static logos several hours a day, I'm not convinced. Doing so might be considered "abuse" among plasma owners, but that's part of my viewing habits. If owning a plasma means I have to change my viewing habits, well, it's a no-go.


I've been watching College and professional football the past couple of weeks, with an eight hour marathon both Saturday and Sunday last weekend. My panel is still IR free. In full disclosure, I did run a pixel flipper overnight after Monday night football. I've also had my nephews over for epic 8 hour sessions of Call of Duty with no ill effects.


----------



## Oimagination

The IR on my plasma from gaming too much Dark Souls took a few months and a few runs of the pixel flipper overnight to go away. I can't notice it on normal content at all anymore.


I also fell asleep watching a Rush DVD which went back to the title menu after the concert ended and stayed there for 2-3 hours before my TV auto shut-off, and there was definitely some IR ("song selection" "audio options" etc in the middle of the screen lol) from that but the pixel flipper killed it pretty quick.


----------



## Iain-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728620
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> 
> Thanks, Iain-. So you did have IR? What caused it?
> 
> 
> I have a Sony KDS-60a3000 that still works fine, but I know that there are better displays out there now. Unfortunately, I don't have space for a secondary monitor to watch TV.



IR was caused by overt TeeVee channel logos.


You might have space for this secondary monitor:
http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/led-tv/UE22F5000AKXXU 


If you're in America it would be this one:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN22F5000AFXZA 


It's actually a quite decent display, for what it is.


It's small and sits on same shelf immediately behind BD player. I did say it was a cheap display, didn't I?


----------



## paligap

Ha! @Iain-, you actually have me thinking about it. I am a cheap ^%$#@!


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4640_40#post_23728117
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spidergames*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23728057
> 
> 
> I have a small LG Plasma in my room that I didn't bother to break in, that has a letter box burn in and I have 58 Samsung that I bought in 010, that I try to make sure it didn't get any burn in, but it did get a 4:3 bar burn in, at that time i didn't know what mode I'd left it on or what ever, but am going to try again with a VT60 and I'm hopeful that a burn in wont happen on that TV....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LG Plasmas are notorious for bad IR at least they used to be, uneven aging from 4:3 content is unavoidable if you watch alot of 4;3 content it is just the nature of plasma technology. But I want to point out it is not IR or burn-in it is uneven pixel wear.
Click to expand...

Oh boy! A whole new category of picture problem!


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620_60#post_23721023
> 
> 
> If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.
> 
> Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.
> 
> As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.
> 
> I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.
> 
> 
> You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:
> 
> My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.
> 
> Thats All.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442



wow interesting...


----------



## MonicaJae

how many hours on your tv cuda?


----------



## Ilovetightbass

If I had to do all that crap. I would have gone led


----------



## Latinoheat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4620#post_23721023
> 
> 
> If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.
> 
> Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.
> 
> As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.
> 
> I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.
> 
> 
> You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:
> 
> My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.
> 
> Thats All.
> 
> 
> 2




Posts like these are what scares non owners, none of this is necessary period. I must be a lucky SOB but I've owned my plasma for over a year and have never ran pixel orbiter or any of these silly things and never had IR.


----------



## iBrad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Latinoheat*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650_50#post_23730116
> 
> 
> Posts like these are what scares non owners, none of this is necessary period. I must be a lucky SOB but I've owned my plasma for over a year and have never ran pixel orbiter or any of these silly things and never had IR.



That post was directed to member tuffluck! post#4640
http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4641 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post
> 
> 
> Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).
> 
> 
> I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.
> 
> 
> Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...



Persistent IR, power consumption, ABL, buzz, linebleed, flickering, rainbows, dither noise and some other plasma artifacts are the main reasons why plasma tv's losing sales: http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/11/3013714/panasonic-financial-results-2012#comments 

Despite plasma's superior PQ against LCD in fast, smooth, clear, color accuracy, black level, no backlightbleed, viewing angle, 60fps videogame respons etc.

Common consumer aren't interrested in technical babble, they buy a plasma tv and see persistent IR as burn in and later exchange the plasma for a lcd and badmouthing about plasma burnt in.

Only a few above interrested ppl will visit these forums.


Sooner or later plasma tv's will be out of business by the rise of 4k lcd's/oled's.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/10/4210556/panasonic-ceases-plasma-panel-development-will-continue-to-make-tvs/in/2293010 

The plasma built-in scroll bar and pixel orbiter aren't efficient enough to minimize IR, they can be improved by implement built-in automated pixel jogger or flipper.


-It all depends on your viewing habits/contents and usage on the plasma, if you're a channel zapper and use low contrast, no bright logo's and dont play videogames etc., you won't have problems with persistent IR.


----------



## headlesschickens




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iBrad*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23730416
> 
> 
> That post was directed to member tuffluck! post#4640
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4641
> 
> Persistent IR, power consumption, ABL, buzz, linebleed, flickering, rainbows, dither noise and some other plasma artifacts are the main reasons why plasma tv's losing sales: http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/11/3013714/panasonic-financial-results-2012#comments
> 
> Despite plasma's superior PQ against LCD in fast, smooth, clear, color accuracy, black level, no backlightbleed, viewing angle, 60fps videogame respons etc.
> 
> Common consumer aren't interrested in technical babble, they buy a plasma tv and see persistent IR as burn in and later exchange the plasma for a lcd and badmouthing about plasma burnt in.
> 
> Only a few above interrested ppl will visit these forums.
> 
> 
> Sooner or later plasma tv's will be out of business by the rise of 4k lcd's/oled's.
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/10/4210556/panasonic-ceases-plasma-panel-development-will-continue-to-make-tvs/in/2293010
> 
> The plasma built-in scroll bar and pixel orbiter aren't efficient enough to minimize IR, they can be improved by implement built-in automated pixel jogger or flipper.
> 
> 
> -It all depends on your viewing habits/contents and usage on the plasma, if you're a channel zapper and use low contrast, no bright logo's and dont play videogames etc., you won't have problems with persistent IR.



As I like to point out as often as possible, the really sad thing is that this is a solvable issue. Solved, really; Pioneer solved long-term IR problems years ago (Pioneer's IR-proof panels are the origin of the "IR is no longer an issue" myth), and Samsung's 2012 large (60"+) panels didn't show this effect either. I'm guessing there's a not-insignificant cost issue in the solution (some kind of material change, possibly changes to the actual manufacturing process on top of that) and that Panasonic simply has no interest in spending more money on plasma at this point (see: VT60 is a VT50 panel with some black tweaks and, as a result, lower light output as well). They obviously must know what the solution is considering how much of Pioneer's tech they purchased (and never used).


----------



## Chise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *headlesschickens*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23733320
> 
> 
> As I like to point out as often as possible, the really sad thing is that this is a solvable issue. Solved, really; Pioneer solved long-term IR problems years ago (Pioneer's IR-proof panels are the origin of the "IR is no longer an issue" myth), and Samsung's 2012 large (60"+) panels didn't show this effect either. I'm guessing there's a not-insignificant cost issue in the solution (some kind of material change, possibly changes to the actual manufacturing process on top of that) and that Panasonic simply has no interest in spending more money on plasma at this point (see: VT60 is a VT50 panel with some black tweaks and, as a result, lower light output as well). They obviously must know what the solution is considering how much of Pioneer's tech they purchased (and never used).


You are right,I have burn-ins in my VT-30,I learn to live with it,plus it only shows up when picture is on white color's.


----------



## dholmes54

Forgive me but I dont want to read the previous 155 pages,is screen burn in still a problem with plasma,not just Panasonic but any brand. My dlp Samsung is dying and im looking at tvs,I watch a lot of the History channel and it has a bright logo on all the time & I was wondering if its still a problem.thanks


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

As I've said before, I see three types of conditions here:


1) Burn-in. The actual effect where there's sputtering on the screen, or whatever you call it. It is permanent stickage and irreversible.


2) Image retention. It's just something that is on the screen for a moment's time after watching something because the TV's phosphors just want to be funky for a second. Don't know why it does, but let it do what it does.


3) Uneven wear. The "stubborn IR" that most people don't seem to take into account when they claim their IR always goes away pretty quickly. Although it does, the panel still ages forever and ever, and if you, say, watch 50% History Channel content, if it's prone to this, there's a great chance you'll see something on the screen until you can get it down to 10% or whatever.


#1 just doesn't happen on these TV's anymore, as I know it. #2 happens quite often on 2013 models, but it purely temporary. #3 is the one which people often mistake for burn-in and don't seem to take into consideration if they are too ignorant to realize they could actually get it as well. So yes, #3 could still happen, but it's not permanent. Sure takes wearing the TV differently to reverse it, though.


----------



## dallow

Yup. This thread sealed it for me and I decided not to get the 60" VT60 I was ready to purchase. Read every post from some months back to now. Plasma would not be a good fit for me, despite how much I want the superior PQ.


I play a lot of games, watch a lot of 4:3 and letterbox content, and local news (with logos). And just want to relax and not worry about babysitting it. IR lasting a few minutes would bug the heck out of me, let alone any "stubborn" IR that lasts weeks, even months.


I currently have an A3000. Served me well for 6+ years at least.


----------



## Iain-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dallow*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23736541
> 
> 
> Yup. This thread sealed it for me and I decided not to get the 60" VT60 I was ready to purchase. Read every post from some months back to now. Plasma would not be a good fit for me, despite how much I want the superior PQ.
> 
> 
> I play a lot of games, watch a lot of 4:3 and letterbox content, and local news (with logos). And just want to relax and not worry about babysitting it. IR lasting a few minutes would bug the heck out of me, let alone any "stubborn" IR that lasts weeks, even months.
> 
> 
> I currently have an A3000. Served me well for 6+ years at least.



Wise choice, considering your choice of viewing material.


It would be a tragedy to send a VT60 to an early grave by continually bombarding it with that type of viewing content.


BTW, have you considered the new Samsung LED sets? I purchased one as a secondary system monitor in July; has great PQ. 1080P content is stunning on a 22 inch monitor.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dholmes54*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23736054
> 
> 
> Forgive me but I dont want to read the previous 155 pages,is screen burn in still a problem with plasma,not just Panasonic but any brand. My dlp Samsung is dying and im looking at tvs,I watch a lot of the History channel and it has a bright logo on all the time & I was wondering if its still a problem.thanks



Burn-in is thought to be still possible, but the degree and time span of abuse required to have a truly permanent fixed image in the screen is unknown with current models. I'm a happy owner of a plasma that watches quite a bit of sports and am happy to say that normal viewing takes away any IR that was present in a matter of hours. The key to enjoying a plasma is to do just that, enjoy it. If you will constantly go looking for IR, which you will find, then a plasma is not for you.


----------



## gearheadslife

What is the break in on this year( i.e. new plasmas) now.

I never did anything special to my first plasma that just died after 12 years of use.

as I didn't know better, but I never had burn in or any other issues either..


----------



## dholmes54

thanks everyone


----------



## Cuda1169

Monicajae, I have just over 1,200 hours.


----------



## chrisjmccord

I'm looking to purchase the Samsung PN64F8500 64-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV, mainly for daily TV viewing for my kids, wife and I, with some Xbox game play, and BluRays.


I've read the 100 hour break in standard, is that the same with this 2013 model?


Anyone own(ed) this model and had any issues with IR or Burn In?


My video game play will be really kind of low, not a heavy gamer anymore, 3-4 hours once a week maybe every other week.

Mainly my kids watch Netflix, and I watch sports on TV and and my wife watches some shows.


I'm just kind of nervous to buy plasma with IR or Burn In possibilities, ever since I had a Sony RPTV get serious burn in from Halo, but I was a heavy gamer, single, no kids, back then. Now days I'm lucky to get a few hours a week in.


I went went with LED, Samsung UN60ES8000, and was happy with it and my gaming there, but the off angle viewing was horrid. Then it got stolen, so now is my chance to really rethink my TV purchase.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrisjmccord*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23741086
> 
> 
> I'm looking to purchase the Samsung PN64F8500 64-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV, mainly for daily TV viewing for my kids, wife and I, with some Xbox game play, and BluRays.
> 
> 
> I've read the 100 hour break in standard, is that the same with this 2013 model?
> 
> 
> Anyone own(ed) this model and had any issues with IR or Burn In?
> 
> 
> My video game play will be really kind of low, not a heavy gamer anymore, 3-4 hours once a week maybe every other week.
> 
> Mainly my kids watch Netflix, and I watch sports on TV and and my wife watches some shows.
> 
> 
> I'm just kind of nervous to buy plasma with IR or Burn In possibilities, ever since I had a Sony RPTV get serious burn in from Halo, but I was a heavy gamer, single, no kids, back then. Now days I'm lucky to get a few hours a week in.
> 
> 
> I went went with LED, Samsung UN60ES8000, and was happy with it and my gaming there, but the off angle viewing was horrid. Then it got stolen, so now is my chance to really rethink my TV purchase.


CNET gave the panel high marks.
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn64f8500/4505-6482_7-35731513.html 


Sammys have been fairly IR resistant from what I have read. You could do some research in the PNF8500 thread as well. For the first 100 hours I always recommend watching fullscreen programming only with limited logos and bright banners.


----------



## chrisjmccord




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23741126
> 
> 
> CNET gave the panel high marks.
> http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn64f8500/4505-6482_7-35731513.html
> 
> 
> Sammys have been fairly IR resistant from what I have read. You could do some research in the PNF8500 thread as well. For the first 100 hours I always recommend watching fullscreen programming only with limited logos and bright banners.



Yeah I've been over in that thread for a few weeks now. I was just hoping to read about any potential IR/Burn In issues here. I'm pretty sure when I settle with my insurance company, this will be the set I'll get, I've just always been weary of plasma, but it seems they've fixed some of these IR/Burn In hazards that used to keep me away.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrisjmccord*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23741316
> 
> 
> Yeah I've been over in that thread for a few weeks now. I was just hoping to read about any potential IR/Burn In issues here. I'm pretty sure when I settle with my insurance company, this will be the set I'll get, I've just always been weary of plasma, but it seems they've fixed some of these IR/Burn In hazards that used to keep me away.



I don't own this TV, but have a Panasonic VT30, which Panasonics reportedly have worse IR than Samsungs. My wife and kids use the set throughout the day to watch Netflix, the news and several other programs with black bars or logos and I watch football all day on Saturday and Sunday. I also game some, but not often. Any IR that the unit gets throughout the day is gone shortly after switching to different programming. The only advice I can give, don't check the set for IR constantly - you will find it. It isn't anything to worry about and goes away quickly, on most occasions. I've had some IR that lasts a while, but it always goes away.


----------



## chrisjmccord




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23741528
> 
> 
> I don't own this TV, but have a Panasonic VT30, which Panasonics reportedly have worse IR than Samsungs. My wife and kids use the set throughout the day to watch Netflix, the news and several other programs with black bars or logos and I watch football all day on Saturday and Sunday. I also game some, but not often. Any IR that the unit gets throughout the day is gone shortly after switching to different programming. The only advice I can give, don't check the set for IR constantly - you will find it. It isn't anything to worry about and goes away quickly, on most occasions. I've had some IR that lasts a while, but it always goes away.



I'm ok with IR, have it on my Apple Cinema Display 30" that is on my MacPro, it always goes away, not that big a deal. Guess I'm really more concerned with Burn In, and I know I don't play but a 1/4th of what I used to play in Xbox/Halo from 10 years ago, times have changed, kids, wife, family, etc...I shouldn't be worried about burn in.


----------



## foxnews

I owned a few plasmas over the years but did not have burn-in until now. Maybe that was the reason I underestimate plasma burn-in. I recently bought a new panasonic 65ST60, little over two months. I have a burn-in caused by closed caption watching TV shows. I searched on google and found someone else has this exact situation. I quote his post below. I ran screen wipe for hours and also turned off CC on my Apple TV for weeks now but the reddish/pink burn-in still shows iwhen the background is white or gray. Is this permanent? I can't even watch foreign movies now since it requires CC.



"...

I've had the Panasonic TC-P60VT60 for a few months now, and have just noticed what appear to be little reddish squares towards the bottom of the screen. After investigating, I'm pretty convinced it's come from the fact I watch a lot of Apple TV with closed captioning turned on. The little red "squares" are actually where the closed captioning letters have been appearing - and it's more pronounced in center and gradually clears up towards the edges (most closed captioning is centered). Two lines of the little red squares, too...."


----------



## dallow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iain-*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4650#post_23736884
> 
> 
> Wise choice, considering your choice of viewing material.
> 
> 
> It would be a tragedy to send a VT60 to an early grave by continually bombarding it with that type of viewing content.
> 
> 
> BTW, have you considered the new Samsung LED sets? I purchased one as a secondary system monitor in July; has great PQ. 1080P content is stunning on a 22 inch monitor.



I'm leaning towards the W900 from Sony, though they have a 65" version (W850) releasing early next month.

Yeah, I still want a plasma though, but it'd be for a movie room only for full screen TV and film content only. That or a projector... oh, so many gadgets so little time.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrisjmccord*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23741596
> 
> 
> I'm ok with IR, have it on my Apple Cinema Display 30" that is on my MacPro, it always goes away, not that big a deal. Guess I'm really more concerned with Burn In, and I know I don't play but a 1/4th of what I used to play in Xbox/Halo from 10 years ago, times have changed, kids, wife, family, etc...I shouldn't be worried about burn in.


I have the ST50 which I bought earlier this year. The panel, so far, has been very good with regard to IR. Any IR I have goes away shortly after watching something else. I now use my panel for TV-55%, BluRay-15%, Gaming-15%, NFL Games-15%. I also use a pixel flipper, but to be honest, watching full screen HBO shows seems to have the same effect.


I think you will be pleased with that Samsung and don’t stress about IR.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23742755
> 
> 
> I owned a few plasmas over the years but did not have burn-in until now. Maybe that was the reason I underestimate plasma burn-in. I recently bought a new panasonic 65ST60, little over two months. I have a burn-in caused by closed caption watching TV shows. I searched on google and found someone else has this exact situation. I quote his post below. I ran screen wipe for hours and also turned off CC on my Apple TV for weeks now but the reddish/pink burn-in still shows iwhen the background is white or gray. Is this permanent? I can't even watch foreign movies now since it requires CC.
> 
> 
> 
> "...
> 
> I've had the Panasonic TC-P60VT60 for a few months now, and have just noticed what appear to be little reddish squares towards the bottom of the screen. After investigating, I'm pretty convinced it's come from the fact I watch a lot of Apple TV with closed captioning turned on. The little red "squares" are actually where the closed captioning letters have been appearing - and it's more pronounced in center and gradually clears up towards the edges (most closed captioning is centered). Two lines of the little red squares, too...."



Has the issue become less pronounced since you originally noticed it? I would suggest putting on a fullscreen blu-ray - Avatar works great - and putting it on Vivid (torch mode) and running in a loop for 24 hours. This should help evenly wear everything. If it begins to fade, which it should, you just have very persistent IR. Also, you could run break-in slides at full contrast in a loop. I'm not a fan of the screen wipe; in my experience normal viewing takes away any IR with time, but in extreme stiuations, throwing a little torch mode at it fixes it every time. What you and the other user described are side effects of uneven wear; if you watch too much of the same content that causes uneven wear without variation, this will continue to happen. One of the worst parts of closed captioning is the use of white lettering which is like Kryptonite to Plasmas. I would be extremely surprised if it is true burn-in


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23744908
> 
> 
> Has the issue become less pronounced since you originally noticed it? I would suggest putting on a fullscreen blu-ray - Avatar works great - and putting it on Vivid (torch mode) and running in a loop for 24 hours. This should help evenly wear everything. If it begins to fade, which it should, you just have very persistent IR. Also, you could run break-in slides at full contrast in a loop. I'm not a fan of the screen wipe; in my experience normal viewing takes away any IR with time, but in extreme stiuations, throwing a little torch mode at it fixes it every time. What you and the other user described are side effects of uneven wear; if you watch too much of the same content that causes uneven wear without variation, this will continue to happen. One of the worst parts of closed captioning is the use of white lettering which is like Kryptonite to Plasmas. I would be extremely surprised if it is true burn-in



Thanks for the recommendation. I am afraid that I would never buy plasma again since I love foreign movies that require CC, if this IR is permanent.


I am playing the Avatar movie on Vivid mode with default settings except CATS is off( color temp.=cool2, Motion smoother=Mid). At the end of the movie, it displays credits, actors in white on black background. is this going to cause more IR? since it is similar to closed caption. Or I have to babysit this replay and avoid playing the credit at the end of the movie?


One note: under Avatar movie, I don't see those reddish/pink IR at all. I am not sure if this is because of the Vivid mode. I normally use Standard mode since the TV is still new. Does Vivide mode torture the new TV more than the Standard mode?


----------



## Tom Riddle

Yes, Vivid Mode is generally frowned upon as an actual regular viewing mode; the high contrast leads to IR quicker than regular settings. I'm not sure why it would be present on one mode and not the other; it should be more predominant on Vivid, I would think. I would suggest downloading some color slides and checking for IR against them - should be very noticeable against the light green slides. You can find them on this site or google plasma color slides, save them to a flash drive and insert them in the USB port on your television and use the media player under viera tools to view them. One note, I have the Panasonic VT30 and the Standard Mode has some strange issues that prevent me from using it at all; I'm not sure if the ST60 has the same issues, but you might want to check the forums. If you have a Custom mode, I would suggest using that. Did you do any kind of break-in for you television and how many hours do you have? Plasmas are most susceptible to IR during their beginning life - they aren't as stable as they are once aged. It is recommended that you do a 100 hour color slide break-in - run color slides in a continuous loop for the first 100 hours. Many people also follow this by using low contrast settings for the next 100-200 hours or so and then changing to a more comfortable setting. I personally ran the break-in slides then followed that with 300 hours of low contrast viewing on anything with logos and high contrast on anything fullscreen with no IR catalysts. I now watch anything without hesitation and any IR I do get, quickly fades.


----------



## sooke

What does IR look like? Specifically, if you had a black screen with a bright white logo in the corner that caused IR, what would the IR look like?


a) Would it show up as a faint logo on an all BLACK screen, sort of a ghost image of the logo that used to be there?


b) Or would it show up as a dark area on an all WHITE screen?


Reason I ask, I'm seeing something on my plasma and want to figure out if it is IR or uneven phosphor wear. I'm new to plasmas so pretty uninformed on this subject. My cable box guide screen has a bright white "TV" in the lower right corner. I notice I can see this "TV" on an all WHITE screen as a faint darkening. I'm assuming this is uneven phosphor wear since it shows up as dark on white, when the actual "TV" is bright white. I'm assuming IR would show up as a ghost of the "TV" on a DARK background. But maybe my assumption is wrong.


Thanks.


----------



## Iain-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sooke*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23747298
> 
> 
> What does IR look like? Specifically, if you had a black screen with a bright white logo in the corner that caused IR, what would the IR look like?
> 
> 
> a) Would it show up as a faint logo on an all BLACK screen, sort of a ghost image of the logo that used to be there?
> 
> 
> b) Or would it show up as a dark area on an all WHITE screen?
> 
> 
> Reason I ask, I'm seeing something on my plasma and want to figure out if it is IR or uneven phosphor wear. I'm new to plasmas so pretty uninformed on this subject. My cable box guide screen has a bright white "TV" in the lower right corner. I notice I can see this "TV" on an all WHITE screen as a faint darkening. I'm assuming this is uneven phosphor wear since it shows up as dark on white, when the actual "TV" is bright white. I'm assuming IR would show up as a ghost of the "TV" on a DARK background. But maybe my assumption is wrong.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Item b.


To qualify that, IR would be slightly darker than ambient screen colour. It would not be black; think shades of grey.


----------



## sooke

So, does that mean IR and phosphor wear look the same? But they are different issues?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sooke*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23748616
> 
> 
> So, does that mean IR and phosphor wear look the same? But they are different issues?


Uneven phosphor wear causes IR. So, to me, they are both one and the same.


----------



## Tom Riddle

As Cuda stated, they are one in the same. Regular IR is quick to go away; for example, you watch the Discovery channel for a few hours and the logo leaves a slight impression that is gone in a short time. Now, if you continue to watch the Discovery channel for multiple hours on end day-in and day-out, without much content variation, you will get uneven phospher wear. Now, what only took hours to remove, could take days, weeks or months to completely rid. The key is just to vary your content and enjoy the set. I watch an inordinate amount of Football; Thursday night (Friday if it's on), all day Saturday, all day Sunday and Monday night. I have little IR each day and the morning hours of watching the kid's cartoons quickly erases the remnants, sometimes bad if my team losees, of any IR.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23747230
> 
> 
> Yes, Vivid Mode is generally frowned upon as an actual regular viewing mode; the high contrast leads to IR quicker than regular settings. I'm not sure why it would be present on one mode and not the other; it should be more predominant on Vivid, I would think. I would suggest downloading some color slides and checking for IR against them - should be very noticeable against the light green slides. You can find them on this site or google plasma color slides, save them to a flash drive and insert them in the USB port on your television and use the media player under viera tools to view them. One note, I have the Panasonic VT30 and the Standard Mode has some strange issues that prevent me from using it at all; I'm not sure if the ST60 has the same issues, but you might want to check the forums. If you have a Custom mode, I would suggest using that. Did you do any kind of break-in for you television and how many hours do you have? Plasmas are most susceptible to IR during their beginning life - they aren't as stable as they are once aged. It is recommended that you do a 100 hour color slide break-in - run color slides in a continuous loop for the first 100 hours. Many people also follow this by using low contrast settings for the next 100-200 hours or so and then changing to a more comfortable setting. I personally ran the break-in slides then followed that with 300 hours of low contrast viewing on anything with logos and high contrast on anything fullscreen with no IR catalysts. I now watch anything without hesitation and any IR I do get, quickly fades.




I did not do any break-in since people said it is not meant to prevend IR/BI. it was meant to prepare the panel for D-nice settings, plus I thought it would shorten plasma life. with previous plamas I that I owned, I usually watched varieties of content without any static images for a few months to 6 months. with this new ST60, I was a litte over confident and watched netflix shows with CC on for the first 2 months. I thought CC is not static image and should be safe. now I understand that CC is like laser etch on metal.


----------



## Tuco Salamanca

HI, I just bought a ZT60 and I plan to break it in. I downloaded the slides http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread but I still dont know what to do. Help! I dont know what settings to use. What to turn on/off?


----------



## Tom Riddle

The color slides help to prepare the panel for D-Nice's settings, but it it also ages the phosphors which helps against IR. IR is always worse the newer the phosphors are. I wouldn't worry about aging the panel too fast - I believe it is rated for 100,000 hours - equivalent to 11 years of 24/7 viewing. I'm sure your problem will fade with time and you can go back to watching Netflix with close captioning without worry.


----------



## Latinoheat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23749667
> 
> 
> HI, I just bought a ZT60 and I plan to break it in. I downloaded the slides http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread but I still dont know what to do. Help! I dont know what settings to use. What to turn on/off?



If you aren't professionally calibrating it, don't waist your time. Plasmas do not need to breaked in. Slides are used to age the panel to be professionally calibrated, otherwise just watch HD full screen content for the first 100 hrs, using Cinema or custom mode.


Turn C.A.T.S. off


----------



## Tuco Salamanca

I will have it professionally calibrated at 200hrs. Whats is CATS and how do I turn it off?


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23749675
> 
> 
> The color slides help to prepare the panel for D-Nice's settings, but it it also ages the phosphors which helps against IR. IR is always worse the newer the phosphors are. I wouldn't worry about aging the panel too fast - I believe it is rated for 100,000 hours - equivalent to 11 years of 24/7 viewing. I'm sure your problem will fade with time and you can go back to watching Netflix with close captioning without worry.




in a white background in Avatar movie, I can see two pink lines in the bottom of the screen where CC is. the bottom line is worse that the top line and it is obvious in the middle bottom of the screen. I am running D-nice slides now. Is it too late to run slide to break-in now since i have been watching TV for over 2 months now?


I did not run these slides when I bought the tv because of this quote from D-nice

"...*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. *This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention*.*****..."


----------



## Latinoheat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23749690
> 
> 
> I will have it professionally calibrated at 200hrs. Whats is CATS and how do I turn it off?



Go to menu, picture custom setting, turn CATS off. It is meant to save energy by dimming your picture to light environment. It sucks it dims the picture too much, not necessary.


----------



## Tuco Salamanca

Guess I will skip the slides and go straight to netflix and not have any stationary images for 200 hrs. SOunds good?


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23750118
> 
> 
> Guess I will skip the slides and go straight to netflix and not have any stationary images for 200 hrs. SOunds good?



and no CC, I learned a hard lesson.


----------



## Latinoheat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23750118
> 
> 
> Guess I will skip the slides and go straight to netflix and not have any stationary images for 200 hrs. SOunds good?



HD Netflix, Pixar / full screen blurays movies are all fine. Show us a pic of your setup.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23749772
> 
> 
> in a white background in Avatar movie, I can see two pink lines in the bottom of the screen where CC is. the bottom line is worse that the top line and it is obvious in the middle bottom of the screen. I am running D-nice slides now. Is it too late to run slide to break-in now since i have been watching TV for over 2 months now?
> 
> 
> I did not run these slides when I bought the tv because of this quote from D-nice
> 
> "...*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. *This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention*.*****..."



Right now, you would be better off sticking with fullscreen content and running at high contrast settings. It will take some time, but your issue should go away. Has it become any less pronounced?


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23750866
> 
> 
> Right now, you would be better off sticking with fullscreen content and running at high contrast settings. It will take some time, but your issue should go away. Has it become any less pronounced?




I ran a couple loops of Avatar, and I have been running slides for 12 hours. I can see the IR. it is the same.


----------



## Tuco Salamanca




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Latinoheat*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23750178
> 
> 
> HD Netflix, Pixar / full screen blurays movies are all fine. Show us a pic of your setup.


  


Pauls TV has a warehouse somewhere in the LA area where I live so they were able to deliver the TV quicker unlike the TV stand which is in transit from the Eastcoast. I am still doing my homework on a surround sound system. I will be picking up a Panasonic BDT500 from Frys today if they can lower the price.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Panasonic may exchange the set if you call them; I've read several posts in the past where they have done this, even though it is not listed in the warranty. Worth a shot.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23751622
> 
> 
> Panasonic may exchange the set if you call them; I've read several posts in the past where they have done this, even though it is not listed in the warranty. Worth a shot.



thanks for the advice. I am giving them a call now.


update: technician will come Thur next week to fix it. any idea how they fix Burn in? or they have to replace the panel?


----------



## fatbottom

I'm kinda worried about 2:35 border uneven wear too, since the LX-5090 is used mainly for movies, most of them are 2:35. Apart from animated movies which are 1:85 but the percentage of live action is much higher. From new I watched 4:3 and I noticed uneven wear, thankfully I caught it really early as I watch in darkened room, with a backlight. There was a black screen and I noticed banding...thought huh...and just happened to be where 4:3 borders where. Took a long time to even out.


----------



## Tuco Salamanca




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23750171
> 
> 
> and no CC, I learned a hard lesson.





Mind to share your story?


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23753083
> 
> 
> Mind to share your story?



read my posts from the last two pages, this week.


----------



## Latinoheat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tuco Salamanca*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23751473
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pauls TV has a warehouse somewhere in the LA area where I live so they were able to deliver the TV quicker unlike the TV stand which is in transit from the Eastcoast. I am still doing my homework on a surround sound system. I will be picking up a Panasonic BDT500 from Frys today if they can lower the price.



Cool, that is a fine choice on the Blu ray player. I was going to buy that one or the Oppo 103 but decided to wait and get the PS4. I have the PS3 now for Bluray.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23751785
> 
> 
> thanks for the advice. I am giving them a call now.
> 
> 
> update: technician will come Thur next week to fix it. any idea how they fix Burn in? or they have to replace the panel?



Not sure.... I'm sure you will get a new panel.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4680#post_23742755
> 
> 
> I owned a few plasmas over the years but did not have burn-in until now. Maybe that was the reason I underestimate plasma burn-in. I recently bought a new panasonic 65ST60, little over two months. I have a burn-in caused by closed caption watching TV shows. I searched on google and found someone else has this exact situation. I quote his post below. I ran screen wipe for hours and also turned off CC on my Apple TV for weeks now but the reddish/pink burn-in still shows iwhen the background is white or gray. Is this permanent? I can't even watch foreign movies now since it requires CC.
> 
> 
> 
> "...
> 
> I've had the Panasonic TC-P60VT60 for a few months now, and have just noticed what appear to be little reddish squares towards the bottom of the screen. After investigating, I'm pretty convinced it's come from the fact I watch a lot of Apple TV with closed captioning turned on. The little red "squares" are actually where the closed captioning letters have been appearing - and it's more pronounced in center and gradually clears up towards the edges (most closed captioning is centered). Two lines of the little red squares, too...."




update on a service call to Panasonic...


The technician came today and said he had another client who has the same issue with the same tv, 65ST60 built in the same month, March 2013. The technician said he believes it is the panel issue which lacks the green color cell causing pink/reddish marks. He said He have not seen this for a while and was surprised to see this with low usage, 220 hours, for a new TV. The other client's TV has 500 hours usage. He is communicating with Panasonic field rep about this issue. They made him to replace the power supply for the other client TV, which did not fix anything. He also said Panasonic might know something wrong but did not tell him. He said there might be hundreds of TV with this same issue in the country, since there are at least two in Charlotte area.


He said that since 2013 TV panel and back plate is too thin, it is hard to replace the panel without breaking it. So Panasonic does not replace panel anymore, starting a month ago. Any panel replacement request will initiate replacing a new TV. They will send his company a new TV in the box, and his company will ship it to my house and swap out the TV. This can take 10 days. He said it will be a brand new TV since Panasonic does not replace wtih refurbished TVs. out of TV brand names, he said Panasonic got the best service.



My concern is that (1) was panasonic aware of this issue? (2) if they were, did they fix it at production line? (3) if they fixed it, how does the replacement request specify for a panel from a fixed batch?

if none of this happens, I will end up with the same issue a few months later.


----------



## Tom Riddle

If it is a manufacturing defect, it most likely only impacts a specific batch. Take note of your current serial number and compare it to the set you receive. Hopefully, you will receive a later build that does not suffer from the problem.


----------



## machavez00

First time PDP owner. (Samsung PN60F5300). The previous sets I've owned are a 46" Samsung DLP and a 47" LG Infinia edge lit LED.


Let me see if I understand correctly. I need to:


Not watch any 4:3 or letter boxed content until the TV has 200 or more hours of operation to prevent image retention/burn in.


This set has a scrolling screen option and pixel shifting. The pixel shifting is not available when overscan is turned off.


I have "movie" selected and have color, contrast, tint, and sharpness set at 50.


Some questions.


Which is better to used for breaking in the set, the bright white on the DVD or the scrolling bars?


What are the rules for PS3 games and 4:3/letter box content after the break in period?


----------



## Tom Riddle

Congratulations on the new display. Stay away from from black bars in general for he first 200 hours and go light on the contrast if watching anything with logos. There aren't any specific rules to gaming or 4:3 content once break-in is achieved, just be kind to the set and use commonplace sense. Also, IR is inevitable with any plasma display, so don't worry if you see it some point. Just use fullscreen mode with high contrast to get rid of it, Avatar works great. The good thing is Samsung is supposed to have very good regulation of IR.


----------



## machavez00

That's good to know. I'm a Godfather Trilogy fan and almost three hours each I'd hate to think my beloved GF will kill my TV


----------



## Cg006

Guess i should put in my 2 cents....


I bought a PN60F8500 about a month ago....


I broke it in watching LOTS of tv shows.. by the time i got my remote and checked the hours.. i was at 230 (probably close to OR over 300 now)...


I switched the TV to PC mode (puts the tv in Standard mode, which is REALLY Bright) and adjusted my cell to 7, contrast to 80, and brightness is around 50......


Ive been playing GTAV in about 4 hour sessions all week long every night...


Got to say.... when i am done.. i have been paranoid and always to the scrolling thing to check the screen for IR.... the HUD on the bottom left always leaves a small trace of IR where the health/stamina/armor is located. It clears up in about 30 seconds to 1 minute when i run the screen wipe.


I have been changing my content as well.. usually when i am done playing i watch my tv shows (Breaking Bad (miss it), Boardwalk, etc).... so so far everything is peachy. Luckily for rme.... about 4 hours of gaming gets me tired so i switch to a different source.... dont know how this will hold up when i really start to Game with the ps4/xboxone....


But so far.... i am very happy. IR goes away extremely fast and it is not a problem...


Wish there were more Long term testing with the F8500 series PLasma as far as IR or Burn- In goes...

Anyone done any marathon gaming?Like 6+ hours? I got a buddy who swears his Panny VT50 has no issues. he has all his settings maxed and gets no IR or burning using the tv for marathon gaming.


----------



## machavez00

CNET's accidental burn in test.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/ 


> Quote:
> We accidentally let a static image run on three plasma TV review samples overnight, and a Samsung beat two Panasonics at avoiding image retention, aka burn-in.


----------



## Cg006




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *machavez00*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23790313
> 
> 
> CNET's accidental burn in test.
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/



Ive read that previously... And it is comforting to know the Samsung turned to be the best panel.


The plasma on that accident was not a F8500 tv though...... This years panel may be different? Anyone know?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cg006*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23790332
> 
> 
> Ive read that previously...
> 
> 
> The plasma on that "accident" was not a F8500 tv though. This years panel may be different? Anyone know?
> 
> I



Samsung seems to have a good track record against stubborn IR. Based on how you have been using he panel, I don't think you have much to worry about. I have an ST50 and get temporary IR all the time but have not had any stubborn IR issues as many have experienced with the ST50. (knock wood)


----------



## svt2nv

Man these threads are long, I'm sorry if this has been asked but can I indeed just go to an HD channel and let it play for 100+ hours to break in? Can I turn it off and do my break in hours in "chunks". Like maybe 12 hours a day, for example. And finally, most channels have a little watermark type branding in the borner corner that seems to come up every once in a while and then goes away for a while. Wouldn't that be bad furing break in? As I look over at my current TV now I AM noticing that it's a white ghost/see through type image on this particular channel.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Yes, you can use a particular channel, but with caution. Use a channel that doesn't have logos and that plays continuously in fullscreen. Also, you can break-in using chunks, it doesn't have to be continuous. A couple caveats about using a cable channel, I doubt you will find one that doesn't use logos and aspect ratio shifts periodically, so I would recommend using a fullscreen blu-ray (Avatar works great). Congratulations on your new set.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *svt2nv*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23797264
> 
> 
> Man these threads are long, I'm sorry if this has been asked but can I indeed just go to an HD channel and let it play for 100+ hours to break in? Can I turn it off and do my break in hours in "chunks". Like maybe 12 hours a day, for example. And finally, most channels have a little watermark type branding in the borner corner that seems to come up every once in a while and then goes away for a while. Wouldn't that be bad furing break in? As I look over at my current TV now I AM noticing that it's a white ghost/see through type image on this particular channel.


I agree with Tom Riddle. Just watch as much full screen non logo content as you can for the first 150-200 hours. You call also overscan the image to limit the effect of logos and black bars during this time.


----------



## machavez00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cg006*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4700_100#post_23790253
> 
> 
> Guess i should put in my 2 cents....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I broke it in watching LOTS of tv shows.. by the time i got my remote and checked the hours.. i was at 230 (probably close to OR over 300 now)...



Where does one find the hours meter? (service menu?)


----------



## Tom Riddle

It is typically in the service menu. If you need the code, I would look on the forum for your particular set. Be careful entering the service menu, one thing changed in there can really mess up your set.


----------



## Cg006




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *machavez00*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23798277
> 
> 
> Where does one find the hours meter? (service menu?)






You need to have the traditional remote control.


It's : mute, 7,3,7 ENTER

The hours is called. MRT

To exit the menu. I just power the tv off.


----------



## machavez00

126 hours as of 2000 10/05/13


----------



## absurd_username

I am getting my first plasma (Panasonic 60VT60) in a week an am both excited and terrified at the same time. I'd have no problem 'maintaining' the set, however it's the other users in the house I'm worried about. Wife and mother in law.


I find it intersting reading how alot of plasma owners put up with some IR and/or burn in for the sake of picture quality. Almost like enjoying the small pops you hear in Vinyl records (which I do







)


It struck me last night that there is a very easy solution to help minimizing IR that the manufacturers should include.

*PIP! Picture in Picture!*


Think about it...it's a feature that's been available since CRT. On a digital set there is absolutely no reason It can't be sized to any size or shape you want and be moved to anywhere on the screen to cover up a Station Logo or Gaming HUD.

In this PIP area program it to run a sweep every few seconds/minutes. Intermittently diisplay a reverse of whatever is in it. Change brightness/contrast. Run a pixel flipper....whatever the heck kind of strategy might be suitable or least obtrusive to viewing to jumble up the pixels in that area. It needn't have any kind of border. Just have the pixels in this designated area jostled around. I think even gamers wouldn't mind having their HUD grey out or be 'swept' every couple of minutes.


Watching TV is about relaxing, how can I truly relax when I'm concerned about IR and Burn in?


Comments? Thoughts? Has this already been discussed?


----------



## foxnews

updated from panasonic service call:


The technician delivered a new 65" ST60 in a retail box to replace my TV with burn-in caused by closed caption from Apple TV. He said another guy from a neighbor city got his TV replaced as well due to the same burn-in issue, caused by playing music with static screen. Both my old TV and his old TV were built in March 2013, and both new replacement TVs were built in Sep 2013. Hopefully this Sep batch does not have this same issue. The technician said the panasonic field rep would personally take the old TVs to investigate, instead of sending TVs back to factory as normal replacement.


The new TV got louder buzz than the old TV. Nothing is perfect







I like Plasma alot but buzz and burn-in are both deal killers. LCD picture quality is less but it has peace of mind.


on a side note, I asked him about the rumor that panasonic is pulling the plug on plasma by April 2014. He said a few of his clients mentioned about the rumor as well. He also mentioned that some of his clients run slide initially but he does not run slides on his plasma.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23777661
> 
> 
> update on a service call to Panasonic...
> 
> 
> The technician came today and said he had another client who has the same issue with the same tv, 65ST60 built in the same month, March 2013. The technician said he believes it is the panel issue which lacks the green color cell causing pink/reddish marks. He said He have not seen this for a while and was surprised to see this with low usage, 220 hours, for a new TV. The other client's TV has 500 hours usage. He is communicating with Panasonic field rep about this issue. They made him to replace the power supply for the other client TV, which did not fix anything. He also said Panasonic might know something wrong but did not tell him. He said there might be hundreds of TV with this same issue in the country, since there are at least two in Charlotte area.
> 
> 
> He said that since 2013 TV panel and back plate is too thin, it is hard to replace the panel without breaking it. So Panasonic does not replace panel anymore, starting a month ago. Any panel replacement request will initiate replacing a new TV. They will send his company a new TV in the box, and his company will ship it to my house and swap out the TV. This can take 10 days. He said it will be a brand new TV since Panasonic does not replace wtih refurbished TVs. out of TV brand names, he said Panasonic got the best service.
> 
> 
> 
> My concern is that (1) was panasonic aware of this issue? (2) if they were, did they fix it at production line? (3) if they fixed it, how does the replacement request specify for a panel from a fixed batch?
> 
> if none of this happens, I will end up with the same issue a few months later.


----------



## foxnews

Sound like a good idea but not realistic. who would want to manually turn on PIP and manually place it on the right spot? people should enjoy their TV with peace of mind, not to obsess with burn-in and try to prevent it.


> Quote:
> am getting my first plasma (Panasonic 60VT60) in a week an am both excited and terrified at the same time. I'd have no problem 'maintaining' the set, however it's the other users in the house I'm worried about. Wife and mother in law.
> 
> 
> I find it intersting reading how alot of plasma owners put up with some IR and/or burn in for the sake of picture quality. Almost like enjoying the small pops you hear in Vinyl records (which I do tongue.gif)
> 
> 
> It struck me last night that there is a very easy solution to help minimizing IR that the manufacturers should include.
> 
> 
> PIP! Picture in Picture!
> 
> 
> Think about it...it's a feature that's been available since CRT. On a digital set there is absolutely no reason It can't be sized to any size or shape you want and be moved to anywhere on the screen to cover up a Station Logo or Gaming HUD.
> 
> In this PIP area program it to run a sweep every few seconds/minutes. Intermittently diisplay a reverse of whatever is in it. Change brightness/contrast. Run a pixel flipper....whatever the heck kind of strategy might be suitable or least obtrusive to viewing to jumble up the pixels in that area. It needn't have any kind of border. Just have the pixels in this designated area jostled around. I think even gamers wouldn't mind having their HUD grey out or be 'swept' every couple of minutes.
> 
> 
> Watching TV is about relaxing, how can I truly relax when I'm concerned about IR and Burn in?
> 
> 
> Comments? Thoughts? Has this already been discussed?


----------



## chr0m

Got a VT60 a few weeks ago. Last weekend I played Wind Waker HD on my Wii U for a couple of hours with default THX Cinema settings, which has a contrast of 50.


A couple of days ago I noticed IR from the game HUD! The HUD isn't even on the whole time during play, it disappears when you go into new areas and during cut scenes.


I've tried running scrolling bars and various other burn in fix videos for hours on end, including overnight, but the IR remains










I'm pretty disappointed, it's totally ruining my enjoyment of the set. I have been too scared to play the game again since I noticed the IR.


Is it possible my set is faulty, surely it shouldn't be this easy to get burn in?


How come people keep saying that burn in is a thing of the past?


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23853223
> 
> 
> Got a VT60 a few weeks ago. Last weekend I played Wind Waker HD on my Wii U for a couple of hours with default THX Cinema settings, which has a contrast of 50.
> 
> 
> A couple of days ago I noticed IR from the game HUD! The HUD isn't even on the whole time during play, it disappears when you go into new areas and during cut scenes.
> 
> 
> I've tried running scrolling bars and various other burn in fix videos for hours on end, including overnight, but the IR remains
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty disappointed, it's totally ruining my enjoyment of the set. I have been too scared to play the game again since I noticed the IR.
> 
> 
> Is it possible my set is faulty, surely it shouldn't be this easy to get burn in?
> 
> 
> How come people keep saying that burn in is a thing of the past?



if you read my previous posts, my new 65" ST60 got burn-in caused by closed caption from apple TV. The TV is only 3 months old. a panasonic technician came and said there is another person in the neighbor city has the same burn-in because he played music.


it seems that 2013 models are easy to get burn-in, ST60 or VT60.


what size is your TV? if you can't get rid of burn-in, try to call panasonic and they will replace yours with a new one, like they did to mine. I am trying to watch full screen movie/shows for the first 6 months.


----------



## chr0m




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23855788
> 
> 
> if you read my previous posts, my new 65" ST60 got burn-in caused by closed caption from apple TV. The TV is only 3 months old. a panasonic technician came and said there is another person in the neighbor city has the same burn-in because he played music.
> 
> 
> it seems that 2013 models are easy to get burn-in, ST60 or VT60.
> 
> 
> what size is your TV? if you can't get rid of burn-in, try to call panasonic and they will replace yours with a new one, like they did to mine. I am trying to watch full screen movie/shows for the first 6 months.



My TV is only 4 weeks old. I have also noticed some burn-in from a sporting event I watched 6 days after I bought the TV. This was the only time I watched that particular channel and the channel logo and scoreboard is still burnt in there from 3 weeks ago. The sports game only went for for 2-3 hours with lots of ad breaks where the logos were not on the screen.


It's a 65" VT60, I'll call Panasonic but I bet they try to blame me. If I put the TV on a pure white screen I can see all sorts of discolouration from different types of IR/burn-in, not a pretty sight.


I'm also in Australia if that makes any difference


----------



## svt2nv

If i break in my s60 using an HD channel will the channels watermark cause a problem?   I'm just looking now at what channels are best and it looks like they all have the watermark logo but they're pretty see through/ghost looking.  ‎


----------



## svt2nv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23856623
> 
> 
> My TV is only 4 weeks old. I have also noticed some burn-in from a sporting event I watched 6 days after I bought the TV. This was the only time I watched that particular channel and the channel logo and scoreboard is still burnt in there from 3 weeks ago. The sports game only went for for 2-3 hours with lots of ad breaks where the logos were not on the screen.
> 
> 
> It's a 65" VT60, I'll call Panasonic but I bet they try to blame me. If I put the TV on a pure white screen I can see all sorts of discolouration from different types of IR/burn-in, not a pretty sight.
> 
> 
> I'm also in Australia if that makes any difference



This kind of scares me, is this normal for a modern plasma or no? i've left my 46pz80u paused for long periods of time, played lots of games with hud's and stuff, lots of letterbox,etc and never noticed a difference. I'm a little worried about this s60 purchase with all this burn in talk. don't think things have that pixel orbitor option like my 09 panasonic has!? anyways, is this normal/common or an issue with the st60/vt60?


----------



## absurd_username




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23852731
> 
> 
> Sound like a good idea but not realistic. who would want to manually turn on PIP and manually place it on the right spot? people should enjoy their TV with peace of mind, not to obsess with burn-in and try to prevent it.



I think a great many people would welcome this kind of feature so they'd be able to enjoy their set with peace of mind. It would be more useful than most of the dumb 'Smart' features.


I'd enable the feature to use the 'touch pen'. Walk up to the screen while viewing a football game on ESPN. Tap the screen with the pen to open a menu. Select 'PIP Pixel Wiper', circle or draw a box around the ESPN logo. Tap in the middle to enable. Now every 30sec all the pixels within that area are gradually wiped, scrubbed, faded jumbled...something.


This scenario wouldn't even be very obtrusive with the remotes. Set up feature in menu as to timing of wipes. Have PIP button on remote, use arrow keys/touchpad to size box and move. Press PIP button again and it asks you enable/delete/add 2nd wiper.


----------



## absurd_username




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4710#post_23798168
> 
> 
> I agree with Tom Riddle. Just watch as much full screen non logo content as you can for the first 150-200 hours. You call also overscan the image to limit the effect of logos and black bars during this time.



Do you know if anyone has ever used the Disney WOW disc Pixel Flipper to put hours on their panel? Kind of makes sense to me to use that as it would be applied evenly to the whole panel.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23856623
> 
> 
> My TV is only 4 weeks old. I have also noticed some burn-in from a sporting event I watched 6 days after I bought the TV. This was the only time I watched that particular channel and the channel logo and scoreboard is still burnt in there from 3 weeks ago. The sports game only went for for 2-3 hours with lots of ad breaks where the logos were not on the screen.
> 
> 
> It's a 65" VT60, I'll call Panasonic but I bet they try to blame me. If I put the TV on a pure white screen I can see all sorts of discolouration from different types of IR/burn-in, not a pretty sight.
> 
> 
> I'm also in Australia if that makes any difference



My Tv is also 65". I can draw a preliminary conclusion that big size TV as in 65" is more prone to burn-in, for panasonic at least. we have a big thread here for ST60 owners but so far only a few claim burn-in from 65", including you and me.


many people might have burn-in but they might not notice it. I did not notice mine until I accidentally had a white background on for a few seconds. Otherwise, I might not notice it in normal view.


when you call panasonic, don't say anything about burn-in. just say you see a tint stripes run across the screen, as in my case. they will then send a technician to take a look. since they can't fix the pannel nor replace it (they used to replace it but it is too thin and easy to break), they have to replace with a new TV. that is how it is handled in the U.S. they might handle it differently in Australia.


----------



## chr0m




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23857684
> 
> 
> My Tv is also 65". I can draw a preliminary conclusion that big size TV as in 65" is more prone to burn-in, for panasonic at least. we have a big thread here for ST60 owners but so far only a few claim burn-in from 65", including you and me.
> 
> 
> many people might have burn-in but they might not notice it. I did not notice mine until I accidentally had a white background on for a few seconds. Otherwise, I might not notice it in normal view.
> 
> 
> when you call panasonic, don't say anything about burn-in. just say you see a tint stripes run across the screen, as in my case. they will then send a technician to take a look. since they can't fix the pannel nor replace it (they used to replace it but it is too thin and easy to break), they have to replace with a new TV. that is how it is handled in the U.S. they might handle it differently in Australia.



Will the replacement be any better though or will I still be too scared to use the TV? Watching TV/playing games is supposed to be about relaxation and fun, not stressing over whether permanent marks are going to be left on your TV.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23857752
> 
> 
> Will the replacement be any better though or will I still be too scared to use the TV? Watching TV/playing games is supposed to be about relaxation and fun, not stressing over whether permanent marks are going to be left on your TV.



I had the exact same question but I doubt that panasonic fixed anything. worse, they are getting out of plasma business by early next year. getting the high black level on 2013 models migh has something to do with this burn-in issue.


----------



## GlockFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23856623
> 
> 
> My TV is only 4 weeks old. I have also noticed some burn-in from a sporting event I watched 6 days after I bought the TV. This was the only time I watched that particular channel and the channel logo and scoreboard is still burnt in there from 3 weeks ago. The sports game only went for for 2-3 hours with lots of ad breaks where the logos were not on the screen.
> 
> 
> It's a 65" VT60, I'll call Panasonic but I bet they try to blame me. If I put the TV on a pure white screen I can see all sorts of discolouration from different types of IR/burn-in, not a pretty sight.
> 
> 
> I'm also in Australia if that makes any difference




My 60VT60 is 2 months old and has IR/burn-in as well.

It is from watching a cable television channel.

I called Panasonic to report the issue but Panasonic refused to do anything about it.

If I had known I would not be able to watch cable television channels, I would have purchased a different television..


----------



## fairchild99

I have gotten some what I hope is just persistent IR from playing Diablo 3. I knew the risk but I didn't expect to get this level of IR from the game's HUD. I probably put in over 80 hours in just that game with that hud. It's very very hard to see during actual video content, its' only visible with say an all white/gray screen and then very little and only visible from really close, but it's there and it's bugging me. I've tried to run the screen wipe feature as well as the pixel jogger.mp4 file as well as jscreenfix but nothing has fixed it. I haven't run any of these things overnight or anything extreme like that, but I'll just keep using it as usual but no more playing that game on my TV till that IR goes away.


I miss playing on a 50" screen, but don't want to make the IR into actual burn-in or make it even more persistent, so I'm stuck playing on my tiny in comparison 22" LCD monitor.


----------



## foxnews




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fairchild99*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23860148
> 
> 
> I have gotten some what I hope is just persistent IR from playing Diablo 3. I knew the risk but I didn't expect to get this level of IR from the game's HUD. I probably put in over 80 hours in just that game with that hud. It's very very hard to see during actual video content, its' only visible with say an all white/gray screen and then very little and only visible from really close, but it's there and it's bugging me. I've tried to run the screen wipe feature as well as the pixel jogger.mp4 file as well as jscreenfix but nothing has fixed it. I haven't run any of these things overnight or anything extreme like that, but I'll just keep using it as usual but no more playing that game on my TV till that IR goes away.
> 
> 
> I miss playing on a 50" screen, but don't want to make the IR into actual burn-in or make it even more persistent, so I'm stuck playing on my tiny in comparison 22" LCD monitor.



what is your tv model and size?


----------



## fairchild99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23862416
> 
> 
> what is your tv model and size?



TC-P50S60


----------



## RetroGiant

ST60, Anytime I game for a good amount of time with persistent huds I drop my contrast to 50 or below. So far, I've been IR free from any huds. Same with tough channels like history, discovery etc. Then again I don't go looking for IR on slides either. I do get a decent amount of temporary IR like from the GTAV loading screen, but it fades super quick. I still baby this tv more than I should. I have over 500 hours by now I would think. If anything, I see line bleed more than any IR.


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fairchild99*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23860148
> 
> 
> I have gotten some what I hope is just persistent IR from playing Diablo 3. I knew the risk but I didn't expect to get this level of IR from the game's HUD. I probably put in over 80 hours in just that game with that hud. It's very very hard to see during actual video content, its' only visible with say an all white/gray screen and then very little and only visible from really close, but it's there and it's bugging me. I've tried to run the screen wipe feature as well as the pixel jogger.mp4 file as well as jscreenfix but nothing has fixed it. I haven't run any of these things overnight or anything extreme like that, but I'll just keep using it as usual but no more playing that game on my TV till that IR goes away.
> 
> 
> I miss playing on a 50" screen, but don't want to make the IR into actual burn-in or make it even more persistent, so I'm stuck playing on my tiny in comparison 22" LCD monitor.



When I play games like Diablo 3 or Borderlands 2, even COD BO2, I move the HUD around. You can go into the video settings and change the safe zone / overscan area. Luckily some games allow that. It gets annoying, but I move the HUD around every 20~30 minutes, and be sure to pause or bring up other menus.


You can also drop the contrast, say from 80 to 70 or 60, to reduce the risk of IR.


Running pixel flipper or other content overnight can help. If you're worried about something you just played/watched, you can even set the timer to 90 minutes and let it run content for a while when you go to bed, without letting it go overnight.


----------



## fatbottom

I'd buy a LCD if you're into gaming. Although they have things I dislike too


Loss in resolution during motion

Grey shadows (seen on several TV's)

Input lag


Reason why I use a PC LCD monitor instead of a LCD TV, and of course plasma TV regarding screenburn.


----------



## chr0m

Just played 30 mins of Wind Waker HD and again I have nasty IR from part of the HUD.

I'm pretty sure I have burn in, it never went away after the first time I played it, it faded quite a lot though after I ran screen wipe and snow for about 48 hours.

After a week I decided to play the game because I was sick of having a TV I was too scared to use and again the IR is strong. I played for only 30 minutes, been running the screen wipe for the last 5 minutes and it's still there.


Is this how it's going to be? Play a game for 30 mins and then have to run the screen wipe overnight to get the IR to fade to an acceptable level?


65" VT60 here, not impressed with this, the fan noise is bugging me too.


----------



## svt2nv

okkk soo what is the first thing I should do when setting up my S60? Where can I go to download slides for this procedure and is there a step by step on how to do it with that particular TV? I assume I can do it off a thumb drive or something? Also is it best to do it in junks every day or leave it on for 100 hours?


----------



## absurd_username

I've been reading up on all these threads about 'slides' 'break-in' 'what to avoid' and what not. Here is what I've come up with:


Running slides - Due to the nature of the phosphors used in plasma, the image put out by your set will alter slightly over time as the phosphors age. Running slides for the first 100 hours of your panel is to just get everything 'settled' in a consistent manner before using a set of picture values. Remember, D-Nice is a professional Calibrator doing this for a business and has a reputation to maintain...I suspect that he recommends slides and a 100 hour 'break in' routine to better equalize the conditions that random users at home before using his set of settings.


The 100 hour value isn't set in stone, but a 'reasonable' amount of time of phosphor aging to get a reasonably good picture to work with. After all, who wants to have a brand new TV sitting in their house for a week without being able to watch it. The amount that the image will alter over time is on a curve...meaning it will shift the most over the first few hundred hours of use and settling down over time.


I'm loosely going by these analogies:


--You pour a concrete foundation. You wait 100 hours of curing before you start building your house on it. You could probably start building earlier, but the foundation is more likely to shift and require you to adjust your building to bring it back to level. The foundation as a whole will still be curing over many years and shifting a little here and there. To this day the Hoover Dam is still curing (thank you Discovery Channel







).


--If you put a new set of wheels on your car, you torque the nuts to a specific value, you then drive around for a week and then go back to the garage and get the nuts re-torqued after the wheels have settled in.


--You go to buy a Tuxedo for your wedding that is in 100 days. You buy a size that fits. After 100 days you take your Tuxedo back to the tailor for a final fitting before the big day because you've been working out and the Tux needs to be taken in a little here and there. That way the Tuxedo will look it's best before the final reveal.



In the end, the calibration values provided by D-Nice are not anything specific, but a good ballpark to start with. Every set and panel will be different and will require it's own values to make it look good to it's owner in it's particular setting.


People are saying the Plasmas do not need any Break In. Then will go on to say stuff like avoid black bars, static images and keep contrast low for the first 400-500 hours. To me this is a break in. I find it quite IRONIC that it's recommended to watch movies stretched to avoid black bars on a THX display (VT60, ZT60). Isn't part of the idea of THX is to maintain proper aspect ratio that the director intended?


What I would like to see is a display out of the box with D-Nice's values compared to a display that has 100 hours of slides and D-Nice's values compared. I think that would settle alot of fuss seen on these boards.


I am by no means an expert, but I like to think that I'm a reasonable person. The above I think is a reasonable conclusion to my readings about plasma over the last month.


I'm picking up my first plasma display today and still 50/50 if I'm going to bother with slides. My Oppo Blu Ray player arrives today as well, I might just dive into a viewing of Hello Dolly and Wall-E right away










Cheers.


----------



## absurd_username




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23866695
> 
> 
> Just played 30 mins of Wind Waker HD and again I have nasty IR from part of the HUD.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have burn in, it never went away after the first time I played it, it faded quite a lot though after I ran screen wipe and snow for about 48 hours.
> 
> After a week I decided to play the game because I was sick of having a TV I was too scared to use and again the IR is strong. I played for only 30 minutes, been running the screen wipe for the last 5 minutes and it's still there.
> 
> 
> Is this how it's going to be? Play a game for 30 mins and then have to run the screen wipe overnight to get the IR to fade to an acceptable level?
> 
> 
> 65" VT60 here, not impressed with this, the fan noise is bugging me too.



How many hours do you have on your panel so far?


You can check by :


Menu > Help > Version > Status4 to check the hours (number after letters indicates the hours)


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23866695
> 
> 
> Just played 30 mins of Wind Waker HD and again I have nasty IR from part of the HUD.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have burn in, it never went away after the first time I played it, it faded quite a lot though after I ran screen wipe and snow for about 48 hours.
> 
> After a week I decided to play the game because I was sick of having a TV I was too scared to use and again the IR is strong. I played for only 30 minutes, been running the screen wipe for the last 5 minutes and it's still there.
> 
> 
> Is this how it's going to be? Play a game for 30 mins and then have to run the screen wipe overnight to get the IR to fade to an acceptable level?
> 
> 
> 65" VT60 here, not impressed with this, the fan noise is bugging me too.


If it faded it is not burn-in but likely a case of stubborn image retention (IR). What are your panel settings? Sometimes high contrast and brightness can lead to stubborn IR in young panels.


The screen wipe only partially works on my panel. Best thing you can do is watch as much full screen, no logo content as possible and it will fade in time. You can also use a pixel flipper like the one found on the Disney WOW disc. I use the WOW pixel flipper every two weeks and this seems help with any nuisance IR from video games or sports tickers from ESPN or the NFL network. Also if your panel is over 100 hours you might try D-Nice calibration settings or even professional calibration.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chr0m*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23856623
> 
> 
> My TV is only 4 weeks old. I have also noticed some burn-in from a sporting event I watched 6 days after I bought the TV. This was the only time I watched that particular channel and the channel logo and scoreboard is still burnt in there from 3 weeks ago. The sports game only went for for 2-3 hours with lots of ad breaks where the logos were not on the screen.
> 
> 
> It's a 65" VT60, I'll call Panasonic but I bet they try to blame me. If I put the TV on a pure white screen I can see all sorts of discolouration from different types of IR/burn-in, not a pretty sight.
> 
> 
> I'm also in Australia if that makes any difference



It does seem that the 2012-2013 Pannys are susceptible to IR. Some things you can try:

-Turn down contrast and brightness (never use Vivid Mode)

-Watch as much full-screen non logo content as possible

-Use TV static or a pixel flipper overnight or for several days if need be

-Professional Calibration


----------



## chr0m




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *absurd_username*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23867189
> 
> 
> How many hours do you have on your panel so far?
> 
> 
> You can check by :
> 
> 
> Menu > Help > Version > Status4 to check the hours (number after letters indicates the hours)



I've only had it 4 weeks, so not too many hours. I'll check exactly tonight. I'd only had it 6 days when I watched a football game over 3 weeks ago and I still have IR from it.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23867254
> 
> 
> If it faded it is not burn-in but likely a case of stubborn image retention (IR). What are your panel settings? Sometimes high contrast and brightness can lead to stubborn IR in young panels.
> 
> 
> The screen wipe only partially works on my panel. Best thing you can do is watch as much full screen, no logo content as possible and it will fade in time. You can also use a pixel flipper like the one found on the Disney WOW disc. I use the WOW pixel flipper every two weeks and this seems help with any nuisance IR from video games or sports tickers from ESPN or the NFL network. Also if your panel is over 100 hours you might try D-Nice calibration settings or even professional calibration.



I've always used THX Cinema with default contrast and brightness, which are 50 and 0.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23867326
> 
> 
> It does seem that the 2012-2013 Pannys are susceptible to IR. Some things you can try:
> 
> -Turn down contrast and brightness (never use Vivid Mode)
> 
> -Watch as much full-screen non logo content as possible
> 
> -Use TV static or a pixel flipper overnight or for several days if need be
> 
> -Professional Calibration



I'll buy the Disney WOW disc. I've tried the screen wipe overnight several times, I've also tried some snow videos from youtube overnight too, but nothing has worked so far









I certainly haven't been abusing the set.


----------



## dioxholster

I used to use Eco mode when i first got it, probably shouldnt have since it increased brightness or something depending on the time of day? I have a question that no one seems to have an answer to. Is the scrolling bar harmful to the TV? If yes then i rather not use it at all, as IR is no big deal in the long run but a failed TV set is. Ive tried it for 40 minutes after reading people leaving it for hours until i realized that the recommended is like 5 minutes. I wonder how this affects the tv if it does. Also does burn in appear even when tv is turned off?


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23902210
> 
> 
> Also does burn in appear even when tv is turned off?



No, you can't tell if there is IR or burn-in when the TV is off. Only when the TV is on, and when there is some sort of picture content in the affected area that shows it, such as a white or certain color background.


----------



## dioxholster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23903247
> 
> 
> No, you can't tell if there is IR or burn-in when the TV is off. Only when the TV is on, and when there is some sort of picture content in the affected area that shows it, such as a white or certain color background.



ah so its not IR and i done the scrolling bar for 40 min for nothing :/ I guess that area is just lighter because of something else. its mostly noticiable during the day when there is ambiant light that sees through the tv.


----------



## Raven Crimson

I remember getting some pretty persistent IR with two games in particular on my 65ST30:


Castlevania: Harmony of Despair

 

 



Call of Duty Black ops

 


In Castlevania.... I basically abused my TV for over *1000 hours* with the static health/magic bar on the top left. (Yes, OVER 1000 hours). The bars shown here are always on, and when I joined online lobbies, there were even more bars next to it.

The game also had countless hours in the menu screen where it has 6 white rectangles where you and the other players in the room are located on screen.


The ST30 had these things basically burned onto my screen for months. The red and green bars especially (color and all). I was pretty convinced it was burn in. We're talking 1000 hours of actual playtime, more on the menu which isn't logged in the game. Well, months after not playing the game, all these things disappeared, even the colored bars which looked like burn in.



In Black Ops, the map's yellow triangle (shows your location), as well as the C4 icon (bottom right, and i always used C4), were pretty much always on my screen. These were also pretty persistent IR that lasted a few weeks to a few months. It didn't bother me since all of these things only showed up with certain colors (all green, gray, white screens), and almost never noticeable when watching other content. Still, it ALL went away given enough time viewing other content. So even if something looks like burn in, it seems that given enough time, it probably will go away. I think a lot of people scream bloody murder as soon as persistent IR shows up, but don't give the TV ample time to let it fade away. Yes, it may take weeks, or months, but it can happen (and did in my case of extreme static image abuse, it DID go away).


In most cases of IR, unless you've actively looking for it (and I'm sure you'll probably find some IR here or there), these things aren't noticeable when you're just sitting back and actually enjoying the TV.


I have a 60VT60 being delivered tomorrow, and I'll be gaming on it and enjoying it as much as I enjoyed my ST30 for 2+ years. I didn't baby my ST30, and in the end, all form of IR eventually went away before I sold it. I won't baby my VT60 either.

*I'm almost fully convinced most cases of 'burn-in' is actually just persistent IR that people haven't given enough time to let fade away.*


----------



## thequestionisno


would anyone recommend going with a samsung over a panasonic purely for IR reasons? I'm not high-end, deciding on one of their budget models, either the panasonic S60 or samsung F5300, and I'm having a hard time deciding which but leaning towards the panasonic. I'm not sure if there really is any truth to samsungs being more resistant to stubborn IR or if it's just rumors perpetuated by that one cnet article. I plan on being pretty careful to avoid the obvious pitfalls like black bars and static images, but I have to say I'm a pretty regular gamer and I want to, at some point, use my TV for long stretches of time. not to mention if logos are enough to cause bad IR, will I ever be comfortable watching cable? cable sucks, sure, but I can't say goodbye just yet. just wondering if the samsung would be the "safer" bet despite leaning towards the panasonic. 

 

 

and yes, I'm trying to remember how much selection bias is inevitable in a post like this - if you've had IR you'll most likely be here to post, if you've never had IR you might not. yes, I should stop scaring myself, and no, I can't help it...


----------



## Raven Crimson

I had IR for prolonged periods with my Panasonic ST30 (as mentioned above). I'm a hardcore gamer and NEVER babied my set, even putting in over 1000 hours on some games. The IR will be there if you look for it, but if you're just enjoying your TV, it will be hard to see, and will eventually go away once you move on to other games. That's my experience with persistent IR. It may take weeks, even months, but it will eventually fade (at least in my case of extreme static image abuse).


In any case, it was never an issue when watching movies or anything. The IR only really showed up on solid colors (for me it was certain shades of greens, whites, grays).


If you never, ever wanna see IR, just get an LCD. Simple as that.


Unless you plan on constantly putting your nose up to the screen to look at IR marks, these issues are blown out of proportion.


----------



## thequestionisno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Raven Crimson*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4700_100#post_23905128
> 
> 
> If you never, ever wanna see IR, just get an LCD. Simple as that.


 

hey, let's not get hasty now. I'm a bit worried about IR, I figure it's probably blown out of proportion like you said, but I'd rather deal with a little IR than deal with an LCD in my budget. I mean, not that there's anything wrong with them, I just think an LCD would be a downgrade from my 6 year old CRT. no, I'm set on plasma, I'm just trying to get to known all of its problems so I know what I'm up against.

 

I'm not too worried about permanent burn in, but "it may take weeks, even months" doesn't exactly inspire confidence. but I'm not quite that hardcore of a gamer. I am worried about replying red dead redemption and not being able to put it down all night and getting the HUD stuck there. but I won't be playing civ or anything on the TV where gaming sessions regularly last 5-6 hours. and I won't have my nose up to the screen looking for IR marks, just a little worried that the bottom right corner of my screen might be stuck displaying a comedy central logo while I watch game of thrones. I do hope you're right, and I guess I'll find out in the coming months.


----------



## iserum

i have two plasmas and getting St60, I did break in with previous ones, avoided black bars, ST30 shows IR quite quickly but it goes away as soon as u play other content, one time I have big TLC logo stayed and i was worried it is burn in but it disappeared after few days, If one has to play lot games for many hours and worry about IR go with LCD. I have to baby sit Tv for first 500 hours and it is good to go, IR will never bother anyone on normal watching of tv content.


----------



## hockeynut

What are your guys concerns watching movies that have bars at the top and bottom. I have a 65 VT60 that I believe has burn in after playing 20 hours of Kindoms of Amalur.


I've decided to quit playing video games on the set all together, which completely sucks.


But now I am afriad to watch movies with the bars. That wipes out half of my movie collection.


----------



## Kurtangletn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23940790
> 
> 
> What are your guys concerns watching movies that have bars at the top and bottom. I have a 65 VT60 that I believe has burn in after playing 20 hours of Kindoms of Amalur.
> 
> 
> I've decided to quit playing video games on the set all together, which completely sucks.
> 
> 
> But now I am afriad to wacth movies with the bars. That wipes out half of my movie collection.



You're being way too paranoid, if you really want to feel better play some break in stuff for ~200-400 hours and be good to go.


If you look at some of my earlier posts, my first few posts here after my DLP were about the Plasma and being freaked out by the IR.


I can tell you 3 years of what many people here would be considered abuse my family room 2010 Samsung 680 series plasma has no burn in and no long term IR. We're talking hours of pause screen, TV guide channel, ESPN all day, and my marathon gaming sessions.


Quite a lot of the time the TV was put in Vivid and kept on static stuff..


Seriously, unless the Panasonic's have gotten significantly worse than I wouldn't worry about it..


----------



## Chise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23940790
> 
> 
> What are your guys concerns watching movies that have bars at the top and bottom. I have a 65 VT60 that I believe has burn in after playing 20 hours of Kindoms of Amalur.
> 
> 
> I've decided to quit playing video games on the set all together, which completely sucks.
> 
> 
> But now I am afriad to watch movies with the bars. That wipes out half of my movie collection.


Put the picture mode on custom that keep pixel oribitor on


----------



## hockeynut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kurtangletn*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23940869
> 
> 
> You're being way too paranoid, if you really want to feel better play some break in stuff for ~200-400 hours and be good to go.
> 
> 
> If you look at some of my earlier posts, my first few posts here after my DLP were about the Plasma and being freaked out by the IR.
> 
> 
> I can tell you 3 years of what many people here would be considered abuse my family room 2010 Samsung 680 series plasma has no burn in and no long term IR. We're talking hours of pause screen, TV guide channel, ESPN all day, and my marathon gaming sessions.
> 
> 
> Quite a lot of the time the TV was put in Vivid and kept on static stuff..
> 
> 
> Seriously, unless the Panasonic's have gotten significantly worse than I wouldn't worry about it..



I'm not being paranoid. If you read my entire post you can see that my set already has burn in. And that was after proper break-in.


I also have a Samsung plasma that has been abused with static images and never a hint of IR or burn in. I've also owned prevouis models of Panasonic plasmas with no problems as well. There's something wrong with these new sets.


I like the suggestions of watching on custom mode and keeping the pixal orbitor on. I will use that for sure.


----------



## Kurtangletn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23943735
> 
> 
> I'm not being paranoid. If you read my entire post you can see that my set already has burn in. And that was after proper break-in.
> 
> 
> I also have a Samsung plasma that has been abused with static images and never a hint of IR or burn in. I've also owned prevouis models of Panasonic plasmas with no problems as well. There's something wrong with these new sets.
> 
> 
> I like the suggestions of watching on custom mode and keeping the pixal orbitor on. I will use that for sure.



Fair enough, I read "burn in" as "Oh my god my first sighting of image retention" so I misread the post.


That's really a shame.. wonder why they aren't as good.


My Sammy is on 4 pixels every minute for pixel shift/orbiter.. is there a similar setting on Panasonic?


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23940790
> 
> 
> 
> But now I am afriad to watch movies with the bars. That wipes out half of my movie collection.



I can't attest to how your Panny will handle it, but my Samsung seems to suffer no ill effects from movies with black bars. Most BD movies in my collection are 2.35 so that was a concern for me, too. I just followed the advice here and broke in my set for a 100 hours or so before watching those movies, and when I do watch one I try to watch some full-screen content afterward.


I also usually let my TV's scrolling bars run for several minutes after watching anything with black bars. It may not be necessary but it's simple to do and gives me peace of mind.


----------



## jp0213x

Try running the scrolling bar for an hour a few times a week. I run a timer app on my pc and sync with the scrolling bar time of 15 minutes. I can walk away and and check back on the time. You have to be patient it will eventually get rid of any stubborn image retention. Just avoid the channels with static logos especially if you aren't watching the station. If you have to watch something with a static logo you might want to change the ch during commercial breaks to switch content. Unfortunately this is the trade of for Panny PQ, but I don't mind it at all because its worth it.


----------



## cyberbri

You can also toggle overscan on/off to move the image and static logos around.


I've found that turning down Contrast to 65~70, from 80, significantly helps reduce the amount of (short-term) IR I get during gaming sessions.



Black bars shouldn't cause any issues after the TV has a decent amount of hours on it. The pixels are just off/dark for that period, and not really aging compared to the rest of the pixels.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23943735
> 
> 
> I'm not being paranoid. If you read my entire post you can see that my set already has burn in. And that was after proper break-in.
> 
> 
> I also have a Samsung plasma that has been abused with static images and never a hint of IR or burn in. I've also owned prevouis models of Panasonic plasmas with no problems as well. There's something wrong with these new sets.
> 
> 
> I like the suggestions of watching on custom mode and keeping the pixal orbitor on. I will use that for sure.



I sincerely doubt that your VT60 has burn-in. It is more than likely stubborn IR that will dissipate over time. You can run a lot of full screen content, a pixel flipper or even TV static.


----------



## Raven Crimson

My VT60 is only 167 hours, and I've already been leaving things paused for a prolonged period of time and I don't get a hint of stubborn IR.


I understand being cautious, but seriously, just enjoy your TV, instead of trying to nitpick any little thing you see. IR is real, but IR always goes away, assuming you change what causes it.


----------



## hockeynut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23947785
> 
> 
> I sincerely doubt that your VT60 has burn-in. It is more than likely stubborn IR that will dissipate over time. You can run a lot of full screen content, a pixel flipper or even TV static.



Well, I own the TV you don't. I know what I see. I have in the past weeks, watched nothing but full screen, no static images and also ran the color slides in torch mode for another 48 hours and it's still there.


Now call it what you want, stubborn IR, burn-in, either way it totally sucks.


Luckily, I noticed it before it got too bad and I can accept it. I know it's there but I am not going to let it bother me. It's just a shame that I have to be so careful with the set and can't just relax and enjoy it.


Aside from the burn-in/IR issue it is an incredible TV.


----------



## Cuda1169

Fully agree that IR can be very frustrating. Stubborn IR can last a long time, especially when your panel is young. That said, it will eventually go away. What settings do you use for your panel, sometimes the 'Game" setting can be overly bright and cause IR?


IMO, color slides are useless for IR except for exposing it. The best thing you can do is run a pixel flipper or TV static. I use the Disney WoW pixel flipper and this helps with any nuisance IR. You can run it as long as you like, in your case that could be several days before you notice any improvement.


----------



## hockeynut

Cuda,


Thank you for the tips. I watch the TV downstairs in controlled lighting. So I don't really think I watch it very bright at all. I never tried the game setting. But you are right about the slides showing any kind of flaw. Perhaps it's time I moved away from them all together. I'll give the TV static a try for all while.


If this truly is stubborn IR and it evenutally goes away, I will be very happy and gladly admit I was wrong.


Thanks eveyone for the advice. I will update in a few days if it goes away.


----------



## RetroGiant

I have about 1200 hours on my ST60 and I can still get a bit of stubborn IR from the Investigation Discovery channel even with contrast at like 60. Unfortunate this late in the game it can still get bouts of stubborn IR but I have yet to have anything I would call burn-in. Anytime my wife is watching that channel or I'm on NBA TV or ESPN, or I'm gaming with static HUDs, I keep the contrast at like 35-40 and it will still get IR, albeit that low of contrast it fades much quicker (within a few minutes). I wish it didn't get IR so easily though. I'd like to have basically 2 settings, my contrast at 60 for everything with logos, gaming, etc. and then my movie settings which are D-Nice's at 79 contrast. Hopefully I get to a point where I just say screw it and stick with those settings regardless of IR. It just gets old changing settings depending on content. Guess I just got one of the more susceptible sets for IR.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Raven Crimson*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4740#post_23905080
> 
> 
> I remember getting some pretty persistent IR with two games in particular on my 65ST30:
> 
> 
> Castlevania: Harmony of Despair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Call of Duty Black ops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Castlevania.... I basically abused my TV for over *1000 hours* with the static health/magic bar on the top left. (Yes, OVER 1000 hours). The bars shown here are always on, and when I joined online lobbies, there were even more bars next to it.
> 
> The game also had countless hours in the menu screen where it has 6 white rectangles where you and the other players in the room are located on screen.
> 
> 
> The ST30 had these things basically burned onto my screen for months. The red and green bars especially (color and all). I was pretty convinced it was burn in. We're talking 1000 hours of actual playtime, more on the menu which isn't logged in the game. Well, months after not playing the game, all these things disappeared, even the colored bars which looked like burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> In Black Ops, the map's yellow triangle (shows your location), as well as the C4 icon (bottom right, and i always used C4), were pretty much always on my screen. These were also pretty persistent IR that lasted a few weeks to a few months. It didn't bother me since all of these things only showed up with certain colors (all green, gray, white screens), and almost never noticeable when watching other content. Still, it ALL went away given enough time viewing other content. So even if something looks like burn in, it seems that given enough time, it probably will go away. I think a lot of people scream bloody murder as soon as persistent IR shows up, but don't give the TV ample time to let it fade away. Yes, it may take weeks, or months, but it can happen (and did in my case of extreme static image abuse, it DID go away).
> 
> 
> In most cases of IR, unless you've actively looking for it (and I'm sure you'll probably find some IR here or there), these things aren't noticeable when you're just sitting back and actually enjoying the TV.
> 
> 
> I have a 60VT60 being delivered tomorrow, and I'll be gaming on it and enjoying it as much as I enjoyed my ST30 for 2+ years. I didn't baby my ST30, and in the end, all form of IR eventually went away before I sold it. I won't baby my VT60 either.
> 
> *I'm almost fully convinced most cases of 'burn-in' is actually just persistent IR that people haven't given enough time to let fade away.*



100% agreed.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnettrules21*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23952520
> 
> 
> I have about 1200 hours on my ST60 and I can still get a bit of stubborn IR from the Investigation Discovery channel even with contrast at like 60. Unfortunate this late in the game it can still get bouts of stubborn IR but I have yet to have anything I would call burn-in. Anytime my wife is watching that channel or I'm on NBA TV or ESPN, or I'm gaming with static HUDs, I keep the contrast at like 35-40 and it will still get IR, albeit that low of contrast it fades much quicker (within a few minutes). I wish it didn't get IR so easily though. I'd like to have basically 2 settings, my contrast at 60 for everything with logos, gaming, etc. and then my movie settings which are D-Nice's at 79 contrast. Hopefully I get to a point where I just say screw it and stick with those settings regardless of IR. It just gets old changing settings depending on content. Guess I just got one of the more susceptible sets for IR.



My best advice to you, stop looking for IR. If you can't see it under normal viewing parameters, it isn't worth worrying about. Also, it is okay to turn the contrast up to a more pleasing level now, it won't hurt anything. I have the VT30 and watch Football all day with contrast set to 85; IR is definitely there after this (have to look for it though) but it is quickly gone afters switching to other programming. As you stated, it gets old changing settings, so find one that fits your viewing preferences and enjoy.


----------



## iserum




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23955652
> 
> 
> My best advice to you, stop looking for IR. If you can't see it under normal viewing parameters, it isn't worth worrying about. Also, it is okay to turn the contrast up to a more pleasing level now, it won't hurt anything. I have the VT30 and watch Football all day with contrast set to 85; IR is definitely there after this (have to look for it though) but it is quickly gone afters switching to other programming. As you stated, it gets old changing settings, so find one that fits your viewing preferences and enjoy.



this is best advise. after 500 Plus hours just go with you regular routine of watching tv and do not look for IR, trust me it goes away after changing the source, some go away soon some takes time, they are not visible during regular watching anyway, it does not change the enjoyment of watching.


----------



## 2907Laz

How important is it to get rid of any short term IR before turning the TV off? If i've watched football on ESPN and had temporary IR that would normally be gone in 5 minutes, is it a big deal if i turn off the set while it's still visible?


----------



## Tom Riddle

Not a concern; I do it all the time. IR is a constant in Plasma technoolgy and is only a real concern in the infancy of the display. After the set is broken in, IR should be a non-issue. With that being said, it too depends on your willingness to stop looking for it. If you can't see it under normal viewing parameters, then it should be ignored. There are many people that check for the most minute traces of IR after viewing on slides or up close, which is pointless.


----------



## ken6217

I have a new Panasonic ZT60 plasma. The factory setting for Contrast is 50. I have turned it up to 80-85.


Will this over drive or hurt the display?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Tom Riddle

What viewing mode do you have it set to that has it at 50? I would put more hours on the unit before turning up the contrast high for normal viewing; if it is on fullscreen with no logos, then high contrast is fine. I would put 200-500 hours on the unit before changing the contrast to preferred settings for normal viewing.


----------



## ken6217

I have 100 hours on it. I have it on THX Cinema. Pretty much all of the modes are set at 50 from the factory.


I only watch full scree. Only some stations have a logo and then again, I don't stay on the same stations.


So is the higher contrast an issue?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Tom Riddle

Shouldn't be based on what you described. Just be mindful of logos until you get to around 500 hours and after that, shouldn't have any issues.


----------



## ken6217

Is it better though if I turn down the contrast back to 50 during break-in, or is it OK?


Whats is a good burn in disk or program? Are they safe?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Tom Riddle

You're fine as long as you keep it in fullscreen mode and avoid static images. You can run color slides at full contrast Ina loop or pop in Avatar, works great.


----------



## rushfan2112

Sorry to jump in on this conversation but we just purchased the 50" ST60 this weekend and had it up and running Sunday night.


Remembering what I have read here concerning plasmas (it is our first but still keeping the old Sony HD crt for gaming and SD content) we have been watching only full screen content with no logos etc.

Last night it was Finding Nemo blu-ray (wow is all I can say) and old episodes of Columbo


This afternoon I decided to make it an all music night and have been playing concert dvds for the last 6 hours. All viewing is full screen and Rush never looked better


Meanwhile, in another room Monday night football plays away on the CRT


----------



## Tom Riddle

Enjoy your new set! I'm continually amazed at the picture quality of my plasma. My led/LCD has a tough job, being constantly compared to a better set.


----------



## Chris NYC

I bought the ST60 and have done the 100 hour slides and calibration. It has about 130 hours on it now total and I am wondering if it's safe to watch letterbox content now or should I wait until > 200 hours? It's hard to find films that are not letterboxed and my backlog is waiting.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23972413
> 
> 
> I bought the ST60 and have done the 100 hour slides and calibration. It has about 130 hours on it now total and I am wondering if it's safe to watch letterbox content now or should I wait until > 200 hours? It's hard to find films that are not letterboxed and my backlog is waiting.



I started watching letterbox films on my Samsung at around 100 hours and I've had no problems at all. But as I mentioned earlier, whenever I watch a letterbox film I always run the scrolling bars for a while afterward. I also try to watch some full-screen content as well before watching another letterbox film.


----------



## ImmoralKnight

I have the LG 50PA5500 with about 1200 hours of playtime.


I usually have the orbiter on when watching local channels.


I mostly watch movies on that set, every night for like 2~3 hours with black bars.


I can see the IR but it usually go away after I watch full screen content.


So far I am happy with the display, no worries about IR or burn-in.


----------



## RedZeppelin

Well, I just bought a PS3 bundle in a Black Friday deal, so against my better judgement I'm about to see how my Samsung plasma handles video games. I'm going to try to set a limit of 30 minutes of any one game at a time. I hope that policy combined with liberal usage of scrolling bars will keep IR away.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23948865
> 
> 
> Cuda,
> 
> 
> Thank you for the tips. I watch the TV downstairs in controlled lighting. So I don't really think I watch it very bright at all. I never tried the game setting. But you are right about the slides showing any kind of flaw. Perhaps it's time I moved away from them all together. I'll give the TV static a try for all while.
> 
> 
> If this truly is stubborn IR and it evenutally goes away, I will be very happy and gladly admit I was wrong.
> 
> 
> Thanks eveyone for the advice. I will update in a few days if it goes away.



It should fade with time; even being careful, a new panel can get stubborn IR. I have the VT30 and had "Menu" in the top left screen for 3 months - only visible on light backgrounds close-up. It faded away with time and I have no real problems with IR now on my 2 year old set.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24015987
> 
> 
> Well, I just bought a PS3 bundle in a Black Friday deal, so against my better judgement I'm about to see how my Samsung plasma handles video games. I'm going to try to set a limit of 30 minutes of any one game at a time. I hope that policy combined with liberal usage of scrolling bars will keep IR away.



Your panel will be fine. Samsung panels seem to do well handling IR. My Panny ST50 did well over Thanksgiving weekend. My nephews were in town and were gaming non-stop with CoD Ghosts, Assassins Creed and Forza 5. I used color slides to check for IR and the only visible IR was the Xbox One logo that sits in the top right corner of the X1 home screen. Even this faded quickly after watching 15 minutes of football.


Enjoy your panel.


----------



## jlb32

My Panasonic GT30 is now 2 years old. Would have figured IR would not be a issue now but I noticed a stubborn "TNT" circle logo faintly in the bottom left corner. It's only visible when white or red background content is playing but now that I know it's there I notice it.


I've tried watching several movies, using the scrolling bar and keeping it off TNT for now but after a week or so it's still there in it's faint presence.


Any suggestions? Does the scrolling white bar really do anything? I've only tried using it a few times.


It's almost impossible to watch any tv station now that doesn't have a logo or info bar somewhere on the screen.


Now that I see the TNT logo it makes me conscious of others popping up also. Almost makes watching tv a hassle even though I absolutely love my Panasonics picture.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlb32*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24023133
> 
> 
> My Panasonic GT30 is now 2 years old. Would have figured IR would not be a issue now but I noticed a stubborn "TNT" circle logo faintly in the bottom left corner. It's only visible when white or red background content is playing but now that I know it's there I notice it.
> 
> 
> I've tried watching several movies, using the scrolling bar and keeping it off TNT for now but after a week or so it's still there in it's faint presence.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions? Does the scrolling white bar really do anything? I've only tried using it a few times.
> 
> 
> It's almost impossible to watch any tv station now that doesn't have a logo or info bar somewhere on the screen.
> 
> 
> Now that I see the TNT logo it makes me conscious of others popping up also. Almost makes watching tv a hassle even though I absolutely love my Panasonics picture.


Buy the Disney WOW Blu ray. It has a pixel flipper that is great for IR. I never found the scrolling bar or even the colored slides to help in any way with IR. Run the WOW pixel flipper over night and you will be surprised of it powers.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24025115
> 
> 
> Buy the Disney WOW Blu ray. It has a pixel flipper that is great for IR. I never found the scrolling bar or even the colored slides to help in any way with IR. Run the WOW pixel flipper over night and you will be surprised of it powers.


Agreed. Also, if you have really stubborn IR, you can run the WOW pixel flipper overnight for several nights in a row.


----------



## srg914


Hello...I am getting the Panasonic tc-p60st60 on Thursday...exchanging a Samsung un60f7100 led lcd which I've had less than a week but it has really bad light bleeding from all four corners...totally unacceptable.  I plan on using D-Nice's slides for the suggested 100 hours.  For the next 100-200 will keep contrast and brightness levels down.  My concern is that I watch quite a bit of CNN and CNBC during the day with their scrolling info bars.  Should this be a concern going forward?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srg914*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24026518
> 
> 
> Hello...I am getting the Panasonic tc-p60st60 on Thursday...exchanging a Samsung un60f7100 led lcd which I've had less than a week but it has really bad light bleeding from all four corners...totally unacceptable.  I plan on using D-Nice's slides for the suggested 100 hours.  For the next 100-200 will keep contrast and brightness levels down.  My concern is that I watch quite a bit of CNN and CNBC during the day with their scrolling info bars.  Should this be a concern going forward?  Thanks in advance.


If you watch full screen content for the first 150-200 hours you will be ok. During this time, you could also run color slides anytime you are not watching the panel, although this is only needed if you’re planning calibration in the near future. If you are concerned about IR, I recommend the Disney WOW disk as it has a pixel flipper included that can help with nuisance IR.


Congrats on the new panel.


----------



## jlb32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24025115
> 
> 
> Buy the Disney WOW Blu ray. It has a pixel flipper that is great for IR. I never found the scrolling bar or even the colored slides to help in any way with IR. Run the WOW pixel flipper over night and you will be surprised of it powers.




Thanks. I'll try seeing about buying the Disney WOW Blu ray.


----------



## sealteamz6

I got the 60ST60 last thursday. Ive put about 60 hours on it. Mostly slides with about 4-5 hours being TV, movies, games (to test for Input Lag). No noticeable IR from menu or anything until like ten minutes ago when I went to check the hours on my TV...weird its all of a sudden happening. Before there was nothing at all and I checked. It faded quickly. I have not been running slides continuously. Just over night...for some reason I get this idea that maybe running slides non stop does something to the TV to maybe make IR more likely to happen. who knows haha


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sealteamz6*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24034225
> 
> 
> I got the 60ST60 last thursday. Ive put about 60 hours on it. Mostly slides with about 4-5 hours being TV, movies, games (to test for Input Lag). No noticeable IR from menu or anything until like ten minutes ago when I went to check the hours on my TV...weird its all of a sudden happening. Before there was nothing at all and I checked. It faded quickly. I have not been running slides continuously. Just over night...for some reason I get this idea that maybe running slides non stop does something to the TV to maybe make IR more likely to happen. who knows haha



Running slides does not make IR more likely to happen. Slides can make IR more visible to the eye. That said, If you are only see IR when checking for it with colored slides it is not a problem. Watching full screen TV shows with limited banners is just as good as running slides, imo. If you are concerned about IR, you can purchase the Disney WoW disc and run their pixel flipper from time to time.


Enjoy your panel.


----------



## billmcdougal

I am getting a Sony KDL-55W900A delivered tomorrow. Pretty excited.


But I've been reading very conflicting reports about whether I need a break-in period for this LED.


Do I need to find a channel without a logo (are there even any?) or run a slideshow? Or will I be fine powering it on, calibrating, and playing some HD games?


----------



## kkirsche




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billmcdougal*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24035346
> 
> 
> I am getting a Sony KDL-55W900A delivered tomorrow. Pretty excited.
> 
> 
> But I've been reading very conflicting reports about whether I need a break-in period for this LED.
> 
> 
> Do I need to find a channel without a logo (are there even any?) or run a slideshow? Or will I be fine powering it on, calibrating, and playing some HD games?



To my knowledge, this thread is focused primarily on Plasma TV's rather than LED. With that said, I don't think you should have a problem with burn in on an LED, but I would ask over in the LCD Flat Panel Displays section .


Good luck!


----------



## billmcdougal

Oh, sorry. I did a search and didn't pay attention the path/forum. My bad. Thanks though!


----------



## kkirsche




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billmcdougal*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24035378
> 
> 
> Oh, sorry. I did a search and didn't pay attention the path/forum. My bad. Thanks though!



No worries, best of luck to you though!


----------



## sealteamz6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24035202
> 
> 
> Running slides does not make IR more likely to happen. Slides can make IR more visible to the eye. That said, If you are only see IR when checking for it with colored slides it is not a problem. Watching full screen TV shows with limited banners is just as good as running slides, imo. If you are concerned about IR, you can purchase the Disney WoW disc and run their pixel flipper from time to time.
> 
> 
> Enjoy your panel.



im not to worried about it. I just found it weird that I didn't have any ir for the first 60 hours from the menu or tv or games. and I was looking for it on the slides which have comprised about 55 hours of the 60 I have on the tv but at the 60 hour mark when I looked for ir from the menu that was on for 1 minute it was clearly there.


----------



## sealteamz6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *madeinuses*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24035224
> 
> 
> The break in DVD will help remove IR as well since it displays a full screen image. Once your set is broken in I, personally, do not believe that running it will break it in even more. The phospors have calmed down after a certain point and its ready to go.



whats considered that certain point? is it the first 100 hours or more?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sealteamz6*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24036254
> 
> 
> whats considered that certain point? is it the first 100 hours or more?


From what I have read phosphors settle down after the first 100-200 hours.


----------



## sealteamz6

ah okay thanks!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sealteamz6*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24036248
> 
> 
> im not to worried about it. I just found it weird that I didn't have any ir for the first 60 hours from the menu or tv or games. and I was looking for it on the slides which have comprised about 55 hours of the 60 I have on the tv but at the 60 hour mark when I looked for ir from the menu that was on for 1 minute it was clearly there.



I think that is typical and I think your panel is functioning normally. If I have my tv or stb menu on for several minutes they will be slightly visible on a couple color slides if I bother checking. However this quickly fades when I watch full screen content. I really only consider IR a problem if it is visible under normal tv viewing.


----------



## sealteamz6

Yeah I agree as long as I can't normally see it I am fine. I guess it just seemed weird I had no issue with it and then all of a sudden its there haha


----------



## hockeynut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockeynut*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4770#post_23940790
> 
> 
> What are your guys concerns watching movies that have bars at the top and bottom. I have a 65 VT60 that I believe has burn in after playing 20 hours of Kindoms of Amalur.
> 
> 
> I've decided to quit playing video games on the set all together, which completely sucks.
> 
> 
> But now I am afriad to watch movies with the bars. That wipes out half of my movie collection.



Well I am very happy to report that what I was completely convinced was burn-in was indeed only some very stubborn IR.


What a relief! Thank you to everyone who helped me with this. It finally went away after about 20-30 hours of full screen normal viewing.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Awesome news!


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U

Just how long can stubborn ir take to completely disappear?


A few weeks ago (around Thanksgiving), I noticed on the slides that "20%" was etched into the bottom left corner of the screen. At first, I couldn't recall when that would have been on the screen but I later realized it must have been from a calibration session a week or so ago. I don't usually leave any one test pattern on for very long and my sessions are not much longer than 2 hours at most, the "20%" shouldn't have been on screen for very long at any one given time.


Anyway, I ran the pixel flipper in vivid mode for quite a few hours and the ir faded by 75% or so, but could still be seen easily from up close if you know where to look from. So, since I first saw this about 2 weeks ago, I have been running the pixel flipper whenever I can which for the past week has been nearly 24/7. Every 12 hours or so it does get a shade fainter, but is still not gone and is still legible from up close especially on a mid gray uniform screen.


My question is why is it taking so long to go and also whether normal use or displaying a 100% white full field could also help? The biggest question is whether I should just use the TV normally or whether using the pixel flipper/all white screen will get rid of it significantly faster. The set probably has some 300 extra hours on it since I first detected the ir around Thanksgiving.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

No idea. My Samsungs haven't ever had stubborn IR before. The F8500 gets IR almost instantly, but also goes away almost instantly too.


No uneven wear yet, thank goodness (I think that's what stubborn IR really is).


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlasmaPZ80U*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24089334
> 
> 
> Just how long can stubborn ir take to completely disappear?
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago (around Thanksgiving), I noticed on the slides that "20%" was etched into the bottom left corner of the screen. At first, I couldn't recall when that would have been on the screen but I later realized it must have been from a calibration session a week or so ago. I don't usually leave any one test pattern on for very long and my sessions are not much longer than 2 hours at most, the "20%" shouldn't have been on screen for very long at any one given time.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I ran the pixel flipper in vivid mode for quite a few hours and the ir faded by 75% or so, but could still be seen easily from up close if you know where to look from. So, since I first saw this about 2 weeks ago, I have been running the pixel flipper whenever I can which for the past week has been nearly 24/7. Every 12 hours or so it does get a shade fainter, but is still not gone and is still legible from up close especially on a mid gray uniform screen.
> 
> 
> My question is why is it taking so long to go and also whether normal use or displaying a 100% white full field could also help? The biggest question is whether I should just use the TV normally or whether using the pixel flipper/all white screen will get rid of it significantly faster. The set probably has some 300 extra hours on it since I first detected the ir around Thanksgiving.



Unfortunately, it could last awhile. The pertinent question ask is, can you see it within normal viewing parameters. If the answer is no, don't worry about it. It will go away in good time, I have a VT30 and had IR of MENU in my top left screen for 3 months, only faintly. Didn't bother me though, because I had to go looking for it.


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24091304
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it could last awhile. The pertinent question ask is, can you see it within normal viewing parameters. If the answer is no, don't worry about it. It will go away in good time, I have a VT30 and had IR of MENU in my top left screen for 3 months, only faintly. Didn't bother me though, because I had to go looking for it.


it will eventually go though, right?


----------



## Chise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24091304
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it could last awhile. The pertinent question ask is, can you see it within normal viewing parameters. If the answer is no, don't worry about it. It will go away in good time, I have a VT30 and had IR of MENU in my top left screen for 3 months, only faintly. Didn't bother me though, because I had to go looking for it.


You sound like me,I put mines on custom mode and the burns-ins went away in three mouths.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlasmaPZ80U*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24091411
> 
> 
> it will eventually go though, right?



Yes, it will eventually go away. The best way to get rid of it is to watch as much content as possible!


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chise*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24091612
> 
> 
> You sound like me,I put mines on custom mode and the burns-ins went away in three mouths.



Right. I watch mine in custom and never get stubborn burn -in anymore - not that I ever look for it.


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24092060
> 
> 
> Yes, it will eventually go away. The best way to get rid of it is to watch as much content as possible!



good to know


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800#post_24092060
> 
> 
> Yes, it will eventually go away. The best way to get rid of it is to watch as much content as possible!



Running the pixel flipper will continue to help as well, but agree that watching as much content as possible will help as well.


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U

I decided I going to watch the TV when I want to and run the pixel flipper when I'm not watching it... this way the hours accumulate quickly and the ir goes relatively quickly as well (it's already pretty close to gone, maybe 95% or so).


EDIT: Now what's annoying is most of the content I watch on my TV is movies (BD or Streaming) and they tend to usually be wider than 16:9 (black bars on top and bottom). I do, however, play full-screen console games and watch full-screen HD cable TV shows.


----------



## david3powell

I have a st60. Is there a way to adjust the brightness or contrast in reference to the menus that pop up on the left? Notice a little IR from that.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *david3powell*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24094720
> 
> 
> I have a st60. Is there a way to adjust the brightness or contrast in reference to the menus that pop up on the left? Notice a little IR from that.



I don't think so. I have a st50 and I think general menu brightness is unchangeable. It shouldn't be to much of a problem though. I have not had any IR issues from the st50 menus, not even after professional calibration when the calibrator had the Panny's menu up for extensive periods of time.


Lately, my biggest temporary IR culprit is the Xbox One Symbol that sits in the top right of the Xbone home screen. Not a big issue but it is bright white on a black background. I quickly dissipates when watching other content but it is only IR that I ever notice.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlasmaPZ80U*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24094354
> 
> 
> I decided I going to watch the TV when I want to and run the pixel flipper when I'm not watching it... this way the hours accumulate quickly and the ir goes relatively quickly as well (it's already pretty close to gone, maybe 95% or so).
> 
> 
> EDIT: Now what's annoying is most of the content I watch on my TV is movies (BD or Streaming) and they tend to usually be wider than 16:9 (black bars on top and bottom). I do, however, play full-screen console games and watch full-screen HD cable TV shows.



If the IR is 95% gone, is it even noticeable under normal TV viewing? If you are varying your content you will be fine.


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24094919
> 
> 
> If the IR is 95% gone, is it even noticeable under normal TV viewing? If you are varying your content you will be fine.


Only visible up close on uniform screens. So, not under normal viewing.


----------



## John Schneider

Grrrrrrrrr....


IR just showed up on my 60" ZT60. Wasn't there before. I probably have close to 1000 hours on it by now. My source is DirecTv 95% of the time, and it flips to a screen saver mode if you pause the picture more than a couple of minutes.


The IR shows as some horizontal "gray" bars about 6-8" from the left hand edge of the screen. Each bar is about a half inch tall and separated from the next by a half inch or so. Only visible when that portion of the screen is bright white or similar. Very visible when I run the screen wipe.


No clue why it showed up now. The positioning of the bars is similar to the "upcoming" sidebar on ESPN Sportcenter, which I do have on quite a bit...










Hope it goes away.


----------



## Tom Riddle

John,


It will disappear with time. I watch a lot of ESPN and other sports and will have slight IR after, but it goes away quickly. Just remember to vary your content, e.g., fullscreen content without logos . This will help ensure you don't get uneven wear.


----------



## John Schneider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24101689
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> 
> It will disappear with time. I watch a lot of ESPN and other sports and will have slight IR after, but it goes away quickly. Just remember to vary your content, e.g., fullscreen content without logos . This will help ensure you don't get uneven wear.


Yeah, I was pretty sure it would - it's already much better. I just figured with this many hours on the panel, IR wouldn't be much of an issue, especially as much channel surfing as we do.


Never had any problems with my old Panny Plasma.


----------



## foxnews

netflix on Apple TV used to have closed caption in white (no background color) and it caused burn in on my panasonic 60" ST60. Panasonic replaced it with a new TV. Now the closed caption on netflix on Apple TV is yellow on a transparent grey background.


I know that white color causes burn in. would yellow in foreground on grey background have less affect on burn-in? or what color of CC should I use to lessen the chance of burn-in?


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxnews*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24119180
> 
> 
> netflix on Apple TV used to have closed caption in white (no background color) and it caused burn in on my panasonic 60" ST60. Panasonic replaced it with a new TV. Now the closed caption on netflix on Apple TV is yellow on a transparent grey background.
> 
> 
> I know that white color causes burn in. would yellow in foreground on grey background have less affect on burn-in? or what color of CC should I use to lessen the chance of burn-in?



They covered Burn-in?


----------



## emerson1

So is there a guide out there I am missing to repair some pretty bad IR (to the point of permanent burn in)? My TC-P42X1 has had a pretty brutal life. About 90% of it's life was spent playing NCAA Football on the 360. The entire time that game is going there is a ticker/scoreboard/big white EA logo so it's as close to being permanently burned in as it can be. I am thinking about selling it and even though it may not be noticeable with regular content it definitely stands out when the screen goes to a solid color. Should I just run the screen wipe for a couple of hours?


----------



## PlasmaPZ80U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emerson1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24140772
> 
> 
> So is there a guide out there I am missing to repair some pretty bad IR (to the point of permanent burn in)? My TC-P42X1 has had a pretty brutal life. About 90% of it's life was spent playing NCAA Football on the 360. The entire time that game is going there is a ticker/scoreboard/big white EA logo so it's as close to being permanently burned in as it can be. I am thinking about selling it and even though it may not be noticeable with regular content it definitely stands out when the screen goes to a solid color. Should I just run the screen wipe for a couple of hours?



if they set has been used like that for years (not sure how old it is), it would likely take forever (months to years) to get rid of the IR even with screen wipe, pixel flipper, or slides (it usually takes the same amount of time to remove it took to put the IR there in the first place or longer in some cases)


probably the best thing you can do is vary content and after months it will slowly fade away (assuming it's not burn-in, which is 100% permanent)


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emerson1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24140772
> 
> 
> So is there a guide out there I am missing to repair some pretty bad IR (to the point of permanent burn in)? My TC-P42X1 has had a pretty brutal life. About 90% of it's life was spent playing NCAA Football on the 360. The entire time that game is going there is a ticker/scoreboard/big white EA logo so it's as close to being permanently burned in as it can be. I am thinking about selling it and even though it may not be noticeable with regular content it definitely stands out when the screen goes to a solid color. Should I just run the screen wipe for a couple of hours?



ISF course I took a number of years ago recommended a 40-60 ire full screen be run on the TV. Whether that is still standard or multiple colors are recommended now I'm not sure.


I do know that just a few hours isn't going to do anything if there is actual burn. Whatever you throw up should total a few days for sure (total time, minus out any regular viewing) and you should get rid of any IR, but burned portions likely won't come back. My cert class was quite some time ago and actually told us plasma burn was a non issue, just throw up the IRE screen and all would be "reset"but that doesn't seem to be the case today. But a few days may show differently. Can't hurt! Good luck.


Steve


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *emerson1*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24140772
> 
> 
> So is there a guide out there I am missing to repair some pretty bad IR (to the point of permanent burn in)? My TC-P42X1 has had a pretty brutal life. About 90% of it's life was spent playing NCAA Football on the 360. The entire time that game is going there is a ticker/scoreboard/big white EA logo so it's as close to being permanently burned in as it can be. I am thinking about selling it and even though it may not be noticeable with regular content it definitely stands out when the screen goes to a solid color. Should I just run the screen wipe for a couple of hours?



Go to JScreenFix.com and try that. It pruports to fix burn-in and dead pixels. The pixel fixer is free, but I believe the deluxe version charges a fee - not sure how much. I've never tried this, so I'm not sure what the results will be.


----------



## pdawg17

Had my first bout with bad IR on my VT60 last night (about 300 hours in). All it took was around 45 minutes watching NFL Network (really? A constant white NFL Network logo people?). I have the WOW disk so pixel flipper cleared it up after a couple of hours...


----------



## 9179mhb

I have a 9 year old Panasonic PDP with more than 10,000 hours of operation, which is still prone to IR... what's up with that?


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdawg17*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24141001
> 
> 
> Had my first bout with bad IR on my VT60 last night (about 300 hours in). All it took was around 45 minutes watching NFL Network (really? A constant white NFL Network logo people?). I have the WOW disk so pixel flipper cleared it up after a couple of hours...



That's all it takes, but no worries, should disappear quick. I watch the the NFL Network all the time, sometimes hours on end and my IR goes away within a few hours of regular watching. Of course, I watch so many football games and other sports, I don't even look for IR. If i can't see it in normal viewing prameters, it's not worth worrying about. It always goes away with time.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *9179mhb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24141043
> 
> 
> I have a 9 year old Panasonic PDP with more than 10,000 hours of operation, which is still prone to IR... what's up with that?



It's part of the technology, no Plasma is not prone to it, especially one that was made 9 years ago. The older sets were highly prone to IR, so nothing to worry about.


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdawg17*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4840_40#post_24141001
> 
> 
> Had my first bout with bad IR on my VT60 last night (about 300 hours in). All it took was around 45 minutes watching NFL Network (really? A constant white NFL Network logo people?). I have the WOW disk so pixel flipper cleared it up after a couple of hours...


I really like how people will blame broadcasters for a problem caused by operator error or an inherently flawed technology...


----------



## pdawg17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24141232
> 
> 
> I really like how people will blame broadcasters for a problem caused by operator error or an inherently flawed technology...



LOL...I've had plasmas for years so no worries...since I watch that channel a lot I just wish they used a more transparent logo like most other channels do...


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdawg17*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24141277
> 
> 
> LOL...I've had plasmas for years so no worries...since I watch that channel a lot I just wish they used a more transparent logo like most other channels do...



I'm with you, but I doubt they will ever change.


----------



## kbreese

Just got my new Panasonic 60VT60 today. Do I really need to worry much about break-in still with these new sets? Or do I just watch TV as normal but try and keep it full screen and "vary the content"


Also, I wanted to do some kind of calibration to it. I've heard about D-nice settings for this set, but seems you need a certain type of break-in for that. Suggestions?


Oh and is it ok to watch Blu-Ray movies right away, or do I have to wait after 100 hours of break-in?


This gets confusing lol.


----------



## Tom Riddle

You don't have to break the set in, unless you want to use D-Nice's settings. If you do, then follow his directions for break-in, exactly. Just vary your content, and I would stay away from black bars for the first 100 hours, just to be cautious. So, if you do watch a blu-ray, watch something that is 1:85:1, so it will fill the screen. I would suggest skipping the break-in, and getting the set professionally calibrated after you have a couple 100 hours - D-Nice can do it!


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24142173
> 
> 
> You don't have to break the set in, unless you want to use D-Nice's settings. If you do, then follow his directions for break-in, exactly. Just vary your content, and I would stay away from black bars for the first 100 hours, just to be cautious. So, if you do watch a blu-ray, watch something that is 1:85:1, so it will fill the screen. I would suggest skipping the break-in, and getting the set professionally calibrated after you have a couple 100 hours - D-Nice can do it!



I agree. Just watch your newtv!I'm not sure about the new plasmas, but when I was ISF certified the general guide was to "season" the TV when not watching it. Basically just throw the 40-60 ire signal on it when you're not watching it.apparently the consensus now is to use a set of slides that alter the being displayed, but a test pattern for white balance displays all colors at certain intensity to create a grey scale Window of a certain ire value. I suppose different color phosfers can and will age differently though.


Calibration really depends on each panel and the environment that it is in so I don't recommend calibration values from one person's TV be put into another set. Of course if a certain model TV exhibits the same color push consistently then making general adjustments is better than nothing.


After the TV is "broken in" it is best to have it calibrated during normal day viewing and normal night viewing. (Or whatever 2 viewing conditions are used most often) A calibrator shouldn't mind coming back at different times in the day, and even if your TV doesn't have ISF modes or Cal day and Cal night modes a calibration for 2 viewing conditions should be able to be loaded into 2 default modes on the TV.


----------



## MidWestSide

Where do i go to get dnice's slides and instruction how to break in my plasma?


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidWestSide*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24145454
> 
> 
> Where do i go to get dnice's slides and instruction how to break in my plasma?



Your set requires neither break in nor silly slides.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24146045
> 
> 
> Your set requires neither break in nor silly slides.



People also tell me 1080p is insignificant on a 23" screen. Let my damn eyes tell them otherwise.


Inform the man how to do it if you know the information, and allow skepticism to play its course naturally.


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24146134
> 
> 
> People also tell me 1080p is insignificant on a 23" screen. Let my damn eyes tell them otherwise.
> 
> 
> Inform the man how to do it if you know the information, and allow skepticism to play its course naturally.



While you are entitled to your opinion, you are not qualified to tell me what to do.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

Didn't intend any authoritarianism, I simply suspected you were withholding information that he didn't have access to.


However MidWestSide, I did a quick search and found this thread, but it's for the Panasonic ST60 I believe. I hope it helps.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=939


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidWestSide*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4830#post_24145454
> 
> 
> Where do i go to get dnice's slides and instruction how to break in my plasma?



What set do you have? If it is a Panny, it will be somewhere in the owner's thread. If you have already been using your tv, then it is likely too late to replicate his results. His break-in procedure is designed so that you go through the exact process he did before calibration so your result will be near identical. With that said, even doing this wont guarantee your results match his and are no substitute for a true calibration.


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146193
> 
> 
> Didn't intend any authoritarianism, I simply suspected you were withholding information that he didn't have access to.
> 
> 
> However MidWestSide, I did a quick search and found this thread, but it's for the Panasonic ST60 I believe. I hope it helps.
> 
> http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=939



My apologies then. For my part, I'm simply try to save him the wasted time of running slides.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Not really a waste of time. Well it is if one is trying to "break in" a set, but in its early lifetime it is beneficial to throw up some grey scale and color when you're not watching the TV.


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146488
> 
> 
> Not really a waste of time. Well it is if one is trying to "break in" a set, but in its early lifetime it is beneficial to throw up some grey scale and color when you're not watching the TV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk



If you can show me some proof of this, such as the Panasonic manual saying that, or a Panasonic engineer said so, then fine.

Otherwise it is only beneficial to turn off your set when you are not watching it.

But since the manual says nothing about break in then it is not necessary.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146638
> 
> 
> If you can show me some proof of this, such as the Panasonic manual saying that, or a Panasonic engineer said so, then fine.
> 
> Otherwise it is only beneficial to turn off your set when you are not watching it.
> 
> But since the manual says nothing about break in then it is not necessary.



In all fairness, the manual also doesn't ask you to get your television calibrated or buy a sound system.


Myth or not, I know my Panasonic TH-50PX60U has some burn-in or stubborn IR. Yes, it is an old set and it was abused from a high contrast and a lot of 4:3 content/ESPN watching, but if it's stubborn IR, I can also just as easily chalk it up to uneven wear, meaning I didn't do enough with it in its infancy to differentiate how each pixel aged.


Whether or not that's true, I've taken extremely could care of my Samsung PN-59D7000 and PN-60F8500, and both of them are void of uneven wear, which is a great thing. Maybe the technology has changed, maybe it's because the sets are calibrated, or maybe it's because there is more available 16:9 content to watch and stations are more particular about us plasma owners with their logos. Whatever the case is, I _also_ ran slides on them.


I didn't do it without watching anything else (well I did with the F8500 because I ran it when we were visiting family for five days), but I did watch 16:9 content for the first 300 hours, and after watching letterbox films I don't mind running the pixel flipper or screen wipe for a half hour. No harm to me, I guess except for my energy bill. But hey, I'm willing to do that because I _do_ believe that uneven wear is something that still exists on these televisions, even though I don't think burn-in does.


D-Nice is pretty well respected within the community, and if he believes that this process will bring his calibration properly to your set, then maybe that's what needs to be done. That has nothing to do with calibration, but phosphor/color stabilization. I believe that has shown to be true.


----------



## ark1g09

I have had my 50 inch GT50B for around 8 months, with well over 1200 hours under its belt, so it is not a young panel.
In the beginning of december, which is around 4 weeks ago, I noticed a dark 'ghost' image on the bottom right corner of the panel. I realised it was the imprint of a channel frequented by my partner (E! HD from Sky). The channel logo is pure white and quite sizeable. That logo is now noticeable darker than the rest of the screen. It is at its most visible on uniform grey and green backgrounds. It is slightly visible in white and red backgrounds.
In the period between when I noticed it till now, which is around 4 weeks, I have kept watching full screen content, have run Panny's scrolling bars over night, tried color slides, 'snow' white static images. The channel with the culprit logo has also not been viewed at all. To this day, it does not seem to be fading.
Regarding the usage, the tv is always turned off at night (mains always switched off at night).
Although on occasion there are days where the plasma will only display that particular channel, by and large it displays a large variation of content of all aspect ratios, ranging from BluRays, gaming, Netflix, full-screen HD cable channels. 
 
The question is - is this image retention? Or is it burn in? Besides the methods ive tried (watching constant full screen content for a sustained period of time, scrolling bars overnight, color slides, 'snow' white static) does anyone have any ideas on how to solve this issue? Or do I have to simply live with it?


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146638
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146488
> 
> 
> Not really a waste of time. Well it is if one is trying to "break in" a set, but in its early lifetime it is beneficial to throw up some grey scale and color when you're not watching the TV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can show me some proof of this, such as the Panasonic manual saying that, or a Panasonic engineer said so, then fine.
> 
> Otherwise it is only beneficial to turn off your set when you are not watching it.
> 
> But since the manual says nothing about break in then it is not necessary.
Click to expand...




Hey, I'm with you. Breaking in the TV in the fashion of putting up patterns for a certain number of hours is a waist, as you could be watching your set during that time.


However, it is a fact that new phosphors energize much more than phosphors that have aged. So in the first 2-3 hundred hours of use the phosphors are much more likely to age at different rates, making burn or IR much more likely during this phase.


So throwing up a grey scale or slides when not viewing the TV will get you out of this period more quickly.


Now, with advance tech like pixel shifting and what not, this isn't as big of deal as it once was. Manufactures may age their panels before shipment, but I don't know if they do or not.


I just know that when I was certified the general concensus was to season the TV with a mid range grey scale Window. And to get rid of IR you did the same thing.


I guess that is not the norm anymore though, I've been out of the game for awhile. I have done some research and found that blue phosphors age at a quicker rate. Also, the TV s still have tools to get rid of IR, and because plasma uses phosphors that are highly excited to produce an image they will age, faster when new, and also more quickly than a CRT. That is a fact. That is why they need recal every so often, just as projectors do as their light source ages.


Now you can fry your projector bulb with crazy stupid light levels and as long as the heat doesn't affect the projector you just replace a $200 bulb. You run crazy light levels when your plasma is an infant and you will burn it or at least create some bad IR if whatever you are displaying has a nice white logo.


But like I said before, tech has increased, and manufactures may age the phosphors in house. But unless I know that for a fact I'm going to vary my viewing and run tame brightness/contrast settings, and display grey scale Windows when I'm not watching it for the first few hundred hours.


At the very least we are all enthusiasts here, and range into Pros. We strive for the best picture, and take steps that may or may not be in the manual to make sure we can get as close as possible to perfect. Joe shmoe doesn't care about this stuff, they want the TV in touch mode instantly out of the box. My mom drives me nuts with this. On my Sammy I enabled Cal night and Cal day just because of this. Both are nearly identical, with the exception of day having a backlight pegged at 20 while night is 3-7 depending on whether or not I have control of the TV only at night, or if I get it during the day as well.


One more thing about manuals (and even some consumer test disks): they guide you through the "front panel" but neglect to tell you to warm up the TV for 45-60 minutes first. That is one of the first things I'd tell a client after setting an appointment.


So yeah, I'm not going to waste days of viewing time on break in, and never told a client to do so. But unless I'm told by a manufacturer that what I've discussed above is bad, I'm going to do it, because I have seen the difference, on modern plasmas that my friends have purchased. One followed my advice, one didn't. The one that didn't still has a video game logo visible even after moving it into a none gaming application. The other hasn't had a problem.


Regards,


Steve


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24146697
> 
> 
> 
> D-Nice is pretty well respected within the community, and if he believes that this process will bring his calibration properly to your set, then maybe that's what needs to be done. That has nothing to do with calibration, but phosphor/color stabilization. I believe that has shown to be true.



If you will check the VT60 thread, you will see that D-Nices calibration is less accurate than THX mode, so there is no sense in putting anyone else's settings in your set, and hence no prep is needed.

Other than that, the phosphors will stabilize on their own with simple normal viewing.

So again, unless you are in a hurry to get a calibration, no break in, slides, or other prep is needed.


----------



## fcb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24147364
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah, I'm not going to waste days of viewing time on break in, and never told a client to do so. But unless I'm told by a manufacturer that what I've discussed above is bad, I'm going to do it, because I have seen the difference, on modern plasmas that my friends have purchased. One followed my advice, one didn't. The one that didn't still has a video game logo visible even after moving it into a none gaming application. The other hasn't had a problem.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk



Thanks, Steve, as you say no harm done, just wasted time and electricity.

But somebody has to tell the new people that the slides are nonsense, which is all I am trying to do.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24147378
> 
> 
> If you will check the VT60 thread, you will see that D-Nices calibration is less accurate than THX mode, so there is no sense in putting anyone else's settings in your set, and hence no prep is needed.



Oh well, I thought I'd try it. No matter, I own the Samsung F8500 anyway. I'm not trying to copy his settings, but that other guy is. Just let him do it if he wants to, I guess.




> Quote:
> Other than that, the phosphors will stabilize on their own with simple normal viewing.
> 
> So again, unless you are in a hurry to get a calibration, no break in, slides, or other prep is needed.



Absolutely they will, and surely none of that would be needed. One would hope that magenta and other inordinate colors will arrive on every pixel from time to time, but over a large sample size of 300 hours, you're sure to get your fix anyway. Nobody here has ever doubted that, including myself. Slides simply expedite the process when you're _not_ watching your television, and they ensure as much balance in aging as possible.


Remember what I said about my televisions: my D7000 was either on when I was asleep and not watching the TV as it would be running slides, or it was on and I was watching good ol' HBO or one of my 1.78:1 movies (or a 1.85:1 Blu-ray using the overscan option); my F8500 came to me the day before we went to see family, so I started the slides process anyway because the calibrator was coming a few days after we would return, and we still didn't have a stand for it at the time anyway.


There are benefits to running slides, though nobody ever said it should dominate your TV viewing when you first get the set. Best to avoid them logos for a while, though.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Can't argue one bit with that. Like I said previously I'm not a fan of universal calibrations. And that isn't because it took money out of my pocket, it was because every set will be different, as will viewing conditions, altering the final Cal.


I never ran into this, but if I had one set that was used only in total darkness, and somebody else had the same set with the same total darkness I'd plug in the first Cal into the second set and go from there.


The set, the viewing conditions, the signal chain, all affect the Cal, and I never left a client without performing a Cal using test disks or whatever on their main media source chained all the way to the set input.


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## Iceberg86300

ROTF. This site is both a very good tool to get back into calibrating/integrating business, as well as a bane for calibrators because everyone is looking for the diy route.


A site like this, with many knowledgeable people, puts out a ton of good info, but it's so very hard to change directions with a topic such as plasma sets.


Man I should show you the email I fired off last year to AV Pro Alliance and Joel Silver regarding the giant problem of that is best buy getting the ISF stamp. It has killed pro calibrators.


The fact that I dumped a load on a Cal class to be recognized as ISF certified just kills me now because "best buy guys are ISF certified and I won't let those jokers near my TV, so you're isf too, why would i let you near my TV?"


It has diluted the "gene pool" so to speak. And it's not like they hold cert classes every weekend so how did all these guys get certs?


Joel was willing to talk with me but I never called. Think I need to resend the email and have him call me.


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## fcb

What do you think of autocal, Iceberg?


----------



## Iceberg86300

Auto Cal is awesome! Of course you need to check the work, but that is simple and fast process. Only problem is using auto Cal when you are using a test disc in a BD. If I remember correctly Cal man can utilize popular test dics, the player just must be able to control the player. Honestly I don't have gear anymore so I can't check how well this works. I have only had a couple sets that supported auto so I really never committed it all to memory.


The # of devices that support ISFccc or direct control nowadays is huge compared to what it used to be.


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


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## Iceberg86300

Forgot to add that it is an awesome feature even when the tv doesn't support it. You can run through a 10 point grey scale measurement with out having to babysit and click through it. Provides excellent time to discuss what you're doing with the client. A big part of calibration is educating the customer, so if you can get in the door with just the basics like front panel calibration and some before after pictures you can then go over the finer points and benefits and you're more likely to get referrals.


Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## KalJer


Hi guys,

 

I'm awaiting the arrival of my Panasonic 65" ZT on Tuesday. What are the modern-day "best practice" break-in procedures? My main concern is avoiding IR and burn-in as much as possible over the life of the set.

 

Thanks!

KJ


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KalJer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153233
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I'm awaiting the arrival of my Panasonic 65" ZT on Tuesday. What are the modern-day "best practice" break-in procedures? My main concern is avoiding IR and burn-in as much as possible over the life of the set.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> KJ



Just watch at fullscreen and vary your content for the first hundred hours. Congrats on the new Panny, I'm sure you will enjoy it!


----------



## Playdrv4me

I would add that if you plan to watch a lot of the stuff with the network bugs at the bottom during that period, to use the TV's zoom mode to get the bug as far out of the frame as possible. This ensures you fill the screen of course, and that you don't get IR from those logos.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Playdrv4me*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153367
> 
> 
> I would add that if you plan to watch a lot of the stuff with the network bugs at the bottom during that period, to use the TV's zoom mode to get the bug as far out of the frame as possible. This ensures you fill the screen of course, and that you don't get IR from those logos.



Agreed. On a slightly related note, I was very surprised to see that ESPN went to a clear logo, and to full frame during the Sugar Bowl last night. All of the other bowl games they have aired have had the ticker bar a the bottom with the blazing white logo. Very curious.


----------



## chunon

Was the same for the Rose Bowl and hoping for the Orange bowl tonight. I wish they would ditch the constant banner honestly its annoying show it a 15 minute increments of something no reason to display it constantly. But then again it is ESECPN lol


----------



## Tom Riddle

I'm with you on that; if I want to read news while I'm watching the game, I'll do it on my iPad.


----------



## KalJer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153264
> 
> 
> 
> Just watch at fullscreen and vary your content for the first hundred hours. Congrats on the new Panny, I'm sure you will enjoy it!


Thanks for the reply! I don't need to worry about running slides / calibration DVD's or anything like that?

 

What about concerns over watching 16:9 content (which I think would have bars?)

 

Thanks!


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KalJer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153570
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply! I don't need to worry about running slides / calibration DVD's or anything like that?
> 
> 
> What about concerns over watching 16:9 content (which I think would have bars?)
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Slides aren't necessary, but you can use them to help age the phosphers when you aren't watching - up to you. I believe there are some posted settings from D-Nice for this set; if you want to use his settings, you would have to follow his break-in procedure that would use slides. Here is a link to that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474480/official-zt60-owners-thread 


As for black bars, I would put a minimum of 100 hours on the set before watching this content.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KalJer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153570
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24153264
> 
> 
> 
> Just watch at fullscreen and vary your content for the first hundred hours. Congrats on the new Panny, I'm sure you will enjoy it!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply! I don't need to worry about running slides / calibration DVD's or anything like that?
> 
> 
> 
> What about concerns over watching 16:9 content (which I think would have bars?)
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
Click to expand...


I don't want to start this up again, so just read the few p posts before your original







With a cal disc you can set your brightness/contrast but whatever you get I would turn down say 20-30% (totally pulled those out of my butt) for the first 100-200 hours just as a precaution. I dont like the term break in, unlike an engine which absolutely needs break in style treatment for awhile to reach full potential and keep it for the better of its life, a plasma just needs to be "seasoned" which is what us calibrators called it back in the day (kinda like fine wine in a barrel, or bourbon, or aged beef, plasmas take a little while for the phosphors to exit their high intensity new born phase, after which they are very much less likely to get IR, age at very different rates (blue mainly because, well, blue phosphors age more quickly in general and very hard and fast in the begining if you watch some blue heavy tv while your tv is a torch on the wall)). Hows that for grammer and nested sentences?







Mechanical engineering is my day job so equation like writing just spills over lol.


Anyway, the reduction of the brightness/contrast will make any logos or tickers less likely to cause any burn or image retention during your sets early life. Reducing color will also help with phosphors ageing at a different rate (this will increase the time it takes to stabilize, but protects from any logos you may neglect). After a couple hundred hours you can perform a quick and dirty DIY front panel calibration, however a pro calibration would be beneficial because of the infinite differences in how the phosphors stabilize from set to set with and different viewing from owner to owner.


16x9 is fine. Just stick to the actual 16x9 content or zoom any other ratios so they fill the screen.


Oh, and go buy a couple more sets and put them in storage because Panny is getting out of the plasma market










Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## cyberbri

Good input. I'll just add that reducing contrast (white level, overall brightness of the image) is good. But once you do, for that initial period, re-test the Brightness adjustment (minimum black level), because it will change as the Contrast setting changes. Do not crank down the Brightness setting, because you will only lose shadow detail by turning shadows into black. You can probably live with Contrast set at 60~70 very easily, and turn it back up to about 80~ once the set is aged enough.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24155583
> 
> 
> Good input. I'll just add that reducing contrast (white level, overall brightness of the image) is good. But once you do, for that initial period, re-test the Brightness adjustment (minimum black level), because it will change as the Contrast setting changes. Do not crank down the Brightness setting, because you will only lose shadow detail by turning shadows into black. You can probably live with Contrast set at 60~70 very easily, and turn it back up to about 80~ once the set is aged enough.



Yeah, that's what I meant. Contrast will reduce overall brightness of the set, and you'll lose a bit of detail in the whites. Brightness/contrast settings do effect each other, and there is no reason to suffer crushed blacks caused by a reduced brightness setting. (Don't know why I said reduce both :face)


Brightness/contrast settings seem backwards to the uninitiated, but they do make sense when you think about them more. I still get confused even after 7 years. So I've just conditioned my brain to say the controls are labeled backwards lol.


As mentioned above, whenever you're setting brightness and contrast use an iterative process, it's better nowadays, but you still may have to give a little to get a little, so depending on what you like mess with one setting so it isn't "perfect" and you may get better performance out of the other setting. Hope that isn't too confusing.










Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


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## doveman

I'm wondering if it's worth taking an ex-display Panasonic TXP50X60B for a 10% discount (so about £342 instead of £380) or if the risk of it not being "seasoned" properly, thus maybe making it more vulnerable to burn-in/IR, makes it not worth it?


I might just get the 42" for £279 instead but there's the option of getting an ex-display one of those for a 10% discount (so £251) as well if there isn't really any risk and every little helps


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24157986
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if it's worth taking an ex-display Panasonic TXP50X60B for a 10% discount (so about £342 instead of £380) or if the risk of it not being "seasoned" properly, thus maybe making it more vulnerable to burn-in/IR, makes it not worth it?
> 
> 
> I might just get the 42" for £279 instead but there's the option of getting an ex-display one of those for a 10% discount (so £251) as well if there isn't really any risk and every little helps



In my opinion, 10% is not enough of a discount to purchase a display - plasma or any other TV.


----------



## Stu03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24157986
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if it's worth taking an ex-display Panasonic TXP50X60B for a 10% discount (so about £342 instead of £380) or if the risk of it not being "seasoned" properly, thus maybe making it more vulnerable to burn-in/IR, makes it not worth it?
> 
> 
> I might just get the 42" for £279 instead but there's the option of getting an ex-display one of those for a 10% discount (so £251) as well if there isn't really any risk and every little helps



My local ASDA here in Scotland and the Co Op are selling the 42" for 279 pounds. It's in my opinion a great deal for a decent 42" plasma.


My dad just bought one for his bedroom and likes it - broadcast HD looks rather nice on it tbh


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24158069
> 
> 
> In my opinion, 10% is not enough of a discount to purchase a display - plasma or any other TV.



Yeah, I think you're right. It's a moot point anyway as despite what head office told me, when I got to the store they didn't have either on display. They only had one 50" in stock so said they couldn't really set that up for me to look at as then they'd have to sell it as open box but they had four 42" in stock, so set one of those up for me to test in the demo room.


The main thing I wanted to check was how readable the text from some PC game screenshots would be. I'd made 1080 and 720 versions of each screenshot and whilst the 1080 ones were readable for some of the games that used bigger fonts (e.g. Kingdoms of Amalur Reckoning) for others they were a bit small (e.g. Wargame Airland Battle, Men of War, DCS World: KA-50 Black Shark). With the 720 versions, naturally everything was that much larger and from about 7ft it was fairly easy to read the text in all games at 720. I decided it would be best to get the 50" though as it will make everything that much larger still and thus easier to read the text without straining and it's only an extra £100 and it seems to make sense to get as big as possible whilst I still can, considering that Plasmas aren't going to be available soon. On either the 1080 or 720 versions, I didn't notice the pixels or see anything that would concern me about gaming on the 50" at 7ft away, although as they were only static images I can't be certain that there won't be any issues with actual running games but I can't see why there should be. I played some HD clips I had as well (a couple of them (Planet Earth, Ken Ross) were ultra high bit-rate and the BD player my USB stick was plugged into struggled to even play them) and they looked amazing, regardless of the TVs actual resolution, so I've got no concerns about watching film/video content on it either.


In the main showroom with lots of TVs on display, it was surprising to me how much larger a 50" looks compared to a 42" and in fact the 42" didn't strike me as being any bigger than my 34" CRT, even though it obviously is, whilst the 50" looks much bigger (but it will be about 2ft further back than my CRT is, so that will negate some of the size increase). Once the 42" was set up in the demo room and resting on the floor, with a 55" fixed to the wall a few feet above it, strangely the size difference didn't seem so noticeable so there's obviously some optical tricks happening there but I'm quite confident that the 50" will give a more immersive, cinema-like viewing experience in my room than the 42"


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stu03*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4860#post_24158199
> 
> 
> My local ASDA here in Scotland and the Co Op are selling the 42" for 279 pounds. It's in my opinion a great deal for a decent 42" plasma.
> 
> 
> My dad just bought one for his bedroom and likes it - broadcast HD looks rather nice on it tbh



Yeah, it's a great time to buy and quite a few places are selling both the 42" and 50" for a good price. I prefer Richer Sounds for their 5-year warranty for only 10% of the product price but PC World do take away the old TV if you want for free, which might be worth £20-30 if you've got a big old TV and don't have a big enough car/van to take it to the dump yourself and would have to pay someone to take it away.

http://www.price4.co.uk/panasonic-txp42x60b-15928.aspx 

http://www.price4.co.uk/panasonic-txp50x60b-16216.aspx 


EDIT: Actually, reading the small print, it seems the Richer Sounds 5-yr warranty "will be terminated in the instance where we cannot repair your unit, and it is exchanged for a different model." So it seems the TV could develop a fault in say 1 year and they decide to exchange it (not sure what they'd give you when Panasonic plasmas are no longer being made), then that replacement could develop a fault within another year and you'd be left having to prove a case under the Sales of Goods Act (onus is on the customer after 6 months), the same as if you'd never purchased the warranty. So it's not exactly a guarantee that they'll repair/replace or otherwise ensure you have a working TV for 5 years. I'm not sure if John Lewis' 5-yr warranty is any more generous but they don't sell these models anyway.


Then again, EU law does require goods to be fit for purpose for a minimum of 2-years, so it may be that would apply to any replacement TV, restarting the clock from the date of exchange but I think it's more likely not and that the 2-years would be counted from the date of purchase of the original TV.


----------



## MonicaJae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800_60#post_24025115
> 
> 
> Buy the Disney WOW Blu ray. It has a pixel flipper that is great for IR. I never found the scrolling bar or even the colored slides to help in any way with IR. Run the WOW pixel flipper over night and you will be surprised of it powers.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4800_60#post_24025650
> 
> 
> Agreed. Also, if you have really stubborn IR, you can run the WOW pixel flipper overnight for several nights in a row.



I agree with both; also want to add that i had IR that I could probably guarantee was worse than you have currently. It was REALLY noticeable, too. That being said, I used pixel jogger, pixel flipper-WoW disc, and the screen wipe. I believe that for me, all those combined with regular watching-oh i also played xbox visualizations to music-helped.


The xbox visualizations, with vivid settings and all opts turned to max, were better than watching cartoons, which is also an option. After just maybe 2 months, and cutting down on that which caused the IR, it disappeared entirely. So, yeah, I would have to agree that it is most definitely stubborn IR. And I was really paranoid about it! lol


From personal experience, though, it took running anti-IR measures longer than a few nights. I did it every chance i could. But mine was almost black. I hope this helps a little bit. I know you will worry, just try not to let it rent too much space










Definitely invest in the WoW disc. You'll need a blu-ray player which has the repeat function. It's only 15 minutes long-if memory serves.


----------



## Chris NYC

Does anyone have an example of what the Wow pixel flipper looks like in action? I am trying to write a web page that will duplicate its functionality but I'm really not sure what it looks like. There's a couple of videos on YouTube but they are bad quality. One looks like there's random snow that changes every ~1 second and a small box of pixels that change more rapidly.


I am not trying to be a cheap skate or anything, but I think the community can benefit from a free version of this functionality. I'll order the disc if I can't find out what's going on.


----------



## cyberbri

The one on the Wow disc is Java, I believe. All 1920x1080 pixels flip between white / red / green blue 30 times a second, or something like that.


----------



## Boos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24195480
> 
> 
> Does anyone have an example of what the Wow pixel flipper looks like in action? I am trying to write a web page that will duplicate its functionality but I'm really not sure what it looks like. There's a couple of videos on YouTube but they are bad quality. One looks like there's random snow that changes every ~1 second and a small box of pixels that change more rapidly.



It must depend on the BD player. My new Panasonic BDT-330 displays a constant, steady screen of what appears to be little more than flickering white noise. My older Sony player displays much the same thing but with a couple smaller blocks of similar-looking signal scrolling around the screen as if wiping away older noise patterns.


----------



## Chris NYC

Does this look right so far? Probably requires Chrome but may work in other browsers:

CleanScreen


----------



## Boos

Yep!


----------



## RedZeppelin

Well, I temped fate with a PS3 on my Samsung plasma, and now I'm paying the price. Apparently I played Bioshock too much, because the health bar has left IR on my set. I can only see it at against certain backgrounds so it's not horrible, but it bugs me nonetheless. I wasn't even looking for it when I first noticed it. It caught my eye while watching TV. Ugh. I ran the Wow pixel flipper for an hour or so today and I'm watching full-screen content now. I'm going to put Bioshock away for a few weeks (And I had almost finished it!) and hope and pray that the image goes away.


----------



## cyberbri

Quick hint -- you can go into the menu and change the safe zone in that game, to move the HUD around. There are quite a few games nowadays that have that functionality.

When I play PS3, if there's a static hud that doesn't fade, I often lower my contrast from 80 to 70 as well. The picture dims slightly, but it seems to be a lot less harsh on the screen.

Hope that helps!


----------



## RedZeppelin

Excellent! Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Chris NYC

I had the same thing happen to me. I got a little cocky with IR being Ive never really had an issue and played Dark Souls for a few hours. I had opacity on the HUD but two weeks later the outline of the health meter is still there. I guess it's faded quite a bit but I can still make it out on a white or light grey screen. Running the screen wiper and my homemade WoW pixel flipper to see if I can totally get rid of. This is really going to cramp my gaming style


----------



## Cuda1169

It may take running the pixel flipper for several days to completely remove the IR. When I'm gaming heavily I will run the pixel flipper once a week overnight and this helps a lot with nuisance IR.


----------



## LaminatedMan

Hey guys, I've just purchased a new Sammy 64" F8500 on Saturday.. Thing is I noticed some burn in while running the break in slights.. It appeared to be the smart TV logo burnt into all four(4) corners of the screen.. The guy at the store swears its a brand new unused panel and it could have been samsung running some test before shipping out.. Is there any truth to this? I'm a little worried this will be permanent and will run the pixel flipper.. Just wondering if any of you guys with a 2013 Sammy plasma have this issues.. Should I insist on a replacement or run pixel flipper til it(hopefully) resolves? Thanks!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LaminatedMan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24204385
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I've just purchased a new Sammy 64" F8500 on Saturday.. Thing is I noticed some burn in while running the break in slights.. It appeared to be the smart TV logo burnt into all four(4) corners of the screen.. The guy at the store swears its a brand new unused panel and it could have been samsung running some test before shipping out.. Is there any truth to this? I'm a little worried this will be permanent and will run the pixel flipper.. Just wondering if any of you guys with a 2013 Sammy plasma have this issues.. Should I insist on a replacement or run pixel flipper til it(hopefully) resolves? Thanks!



Run a pixel flipper for a few days to see if IR begins to fade. If not, take it back while you are still within the warranty period. If its a reputable store, you can just return it now as it is likely still within the store's warranty time period.


----------



## Chise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LaminatedMan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24204385
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I've just purchased a new Sammy 64" F8500 on Saturday.. Thing is I noticed some burn in while running the break in slights.. It appeared to be the smart TV logo burnt into all four(4) corners of the screen.. The guy at the store swears its a brand new unused panel and it could have been samsung running some test before shipping out.. Is there any truth to this? I'm a little worried this will be permanent and will run the pixel flipper.. Just wondering if any of you guys with a 2013 Sammy plasma have this issues.. Should I insist on a replacement or run pixel flipper til it(hopefully) resolves? Thanks!


Take it back period.


----------



## richierich93


I have to say, that is very fishy. There should be absolutely NO burn-in on a brand new set. I would return it immediately and call Samsung as well. Now, I've seen a few times where some people forget they let their brand new tvs on overnight by accident and wake up to find the Smart Hub (or anything else really) burned in slightly into the screen. So, if you're telling the truth, either A)The store was using the tv as a display and then repackaged it to sell it like new (If you were unaware of that, then what they did is illegal). B)Samsung was in fact using the tv as a random test sample (which either way should not have caused any burn-in) and that's how the burn-in occurred. Either way, you should not pay for a new tv and get a burn-in out of the box. If YOU caused it, Samsung will not honor their warranty unless you bought some protection plan from whomever you bought it from.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Definitely take it back.


disclaimer: what I'm about to write can kill your warranty.


It is very easy to get into the service menu on Samsung's. Some things may have changed, but on my es6500 the very first thing that comes up is an overview that includes the panel time. Now Samsung's are tricky because with one wrong button press you can brick your TV. So stay away from the arrow keys and the select button. You can navigate around if it is still a list type by arrowing up and down and hitting enter. When on a setting screen up and down scrolls through the settings, it's very easy to forget and press left or right to get to the setting one column over, but it doesn't work like that. Doing that accidentally in the wrong spot and you end up with a brick.


That is just FYI, you yourself shouldn't go in there to get the panel time. Taking it back and saying you saw the panel time at a thousand hours in the service menu will definitely cause you trouble.


Even though it would take 10 seconds for an authorized tech to get you the panel time you'd likely pay for an hour, but you would have paperwork from an authorized tech showing how many hours were on the panel.


Second option. I believe samsung can remote into your TV for diagnostic purposes, and tell you the panel time. can't remember if there is a self diagnostic in the user menus, but if there is then that may also give you the panel time.


So I'd either call samsung and explain and see if they will remote in, likely they will because this concerns a dealer. From the serial number they can probably look up what the panel time was before boxing. They may also reset the panel time before boxing, so don't know if they could help by giving you a base number which would have been on the set when it was first pulled out of the box which you could subtract from the current time to give you the panel time of the TV outside the factory.


They may also just tell you to run self diagnostics.


I'll run mine later tonight when the parental units go to bed and tell you what kind of info if presented, if any.


Steve


----------



## LaminatedMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richierich93*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24206779
> 
> 
> I have to say, that is very fishy. There should be absolutely NO burn-in on a brand new set. I would return it immediately and call Samsung as well. Now, I've seen a few times where some people forget they let their brand new tvs on overnight by accident and wake up to find the Smart Hub (or anything else really) burned in slightly into the screen. So, if you're telling the truth, either A)The store was using the tv as a display and then repackaged it to sell it like new (If you were unaware of that, then what they did is illegal). B)Samsung was in fact using the tv as a random test sample (which either way should not have caused any burn-in) and that's how the burn-in occurred. Either way, you should not pay for a new tv and get a burn-in out of the box. If YOU caused it, Samsung will not honor their warranty unless you bought some protection plan from whomever you bought it from.


Well I honestly haven't done anything else other than run break in slides.. Only noticed the logos on Day 2 and thought it strange that there were Smart TV logos burnt into all 4 corners.. So I dropped by the store and noticed that the display sets were displaying Smart TV logos and banners on all sides in sequence.. Spoke to the guy at the store and insisted on a new panel since it's not covered in the warranty.. So right now he's arranging shipment of a new set.. Now I'm thinking if I should get a VT60 instead, but I guess this isn't the place to bring that up







.. Plus I've had no issues with my E8000 plasma.. Oh well Crap happens


----------



## richierich93

I would say stick with what you bought. The F8500 is an exceptional tv. If you were unhappy with it then by all means get the VT60 while they're still around. Otherwise I do know that they're getting harder and harder to find. If you need the brightness and smart features stick with the f8500. Especially since you have one on order already


----------



## LaminatedMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richierich93*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24207103
> 
> 
> I would say stick with what you bought. The F8500 is an exceptional tv. If you were unhappy with it then by all means get the VT60 while they're still around. Otherwise I do know that they're getting harder and harder to find. If you need the brightness and smart features stick with the f8500. Especially since you have one on order already


Yup don't really have a choice anyway since they don't a VT60 anywhere in the region at present.. The good news is I get to keep my 'defective' screen until the new one arrives!


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LaminatedMan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24207080
> 
> 
> Well I honestly haven't done anything else other than run break in slides.. Only noticed the logos on Day 2 and thought it strange that there were Smart TV logos burnt into all 4 corners.. So I dropped by the store and noticed that the display sets were displaying Smart TV logos and banners on all sides in sequence.. Spoke to the guy at the store and insisted on a new panel since it's not covered in the warranty.. So right now he's arranging shipment of a new set.. Now I'm thinking if I should get a VT60 instead, but I guess this isn't the place to bring that up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. Plus I've had no issues with my E8000 plasma.. Oh well Crap happens



Just looked at my menu. Under the help section there is contact info for samsung,self diagnostics that I don't think will give you anything(haven't run them yet) and a remote option. So while you're waiting I would contact samsung through the contact us selection, and have them poke around.


If you have only been running slides there shouldn't be any smart logo. check all your settings, I know my set has some obscure settings that do different things when the TV hasn't seen a signal from the remote after a certain period of time.


Especially because of what you have seen in the store. I think samsung would be very interested in this.


----------



## LaminatedMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24207257
> 
> 
> Just looked at my menu. Under the help section there is contact info for samsung,self diagnostics that I don't think will give you anything(haven't run them yet) and a remote option. So while you're waiting I would contact samsung through the contact us selection, and have them poke around.
> 
> 
> If you have only been running slides there shouldn't be any smart logo. check all your settings, I know my set has some obscure settings that do different things when the TV hasn't seen a signal from the remote after a certain period of time.
> 
> 
> Especially because of what you have seen in the store. I think samsung would be very interested in this.


Hmm sounds interesting.. It's a national holiday here in Malaysia so I guess I'll give them a call in the morning.. That said, it's unacceptable of them to send me a used product after my insisting on a new set before purchase.. Fingers crossed on the replacement set


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LaminatedMan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24207390
> 
> 
> Hmm sounds interesting.. It's a national holiday here in Malaysia so I guess I'll give them a call in the morning.. That said, it's unacceptable of them to send me a used product after my insisting on a new set before purchase.. Fingers crossed on the replacement set



Oh you are in Malaysia. How did all of this go down? I ask because of your last statement of "send me a used product." Did you buy the set from a retailer and said retailer put in an order with samsung or a distributor of samsung product? Did the retailer "order" a set from one of their stores who had the set in stock? How did you receive the set (was it shipped to your door and if so from whom, samsung, the retailer, etc. Was it shipped to the retailer who then delivered to your house? None of the above as "send" refers to you buying the set at the retailer who had it in stock and delivered it to you?) Sorry for making a big deal out of these details, I'm just trying to understand the circumstances of how you purchased the set, and what transpired after that to actually get the set into your home.


I was recently burned by a company (and then my bank because they took the word of the company over mine even though I had proof, which they said they didn't need at the time and would contact me if needed) for fifty bucks because "you cancelled the free trial after the charge posted to your account" in the words of my bank. I actually cancelled the same day I signed up but apparently it didn't go through (or it was made to look like it did at the time so they could charge me with their no refund policy), when I saw the charge I went back in and repeated the cancellation process, something I shouldn't have done because firefox counted 2 visits to each cancel process page and date stamped the history with the January date, if I left it alone and disputed I could have shown that I went through the cancel process only once, and well within the trial period. Sorry, I digress, and it was only $50 which doesn't compare to your expenditure, but I'm still hot over it, and I'm sick of shady retailers / business practices which is why I'm trying to get all the info I can on your situation.


Anyway, a new set is being procured for you. Is this one coming from samsung or a distributor? Directly to you or by way of the retailer? I really doubt samsung would send you a used or refurbished set, unless of course the retailer ordered a refurbished set. So out with the details










You can check the manufacture date on the label of your TV to see if it's pretty old and maybe a display model.


Depending on how you are getting the new set there are some things to do. Same with the old set.


Incidentally, if anyone would like premium features of smilebox.com please let me know. They charged me for a year, and I'd love for the world to use the service as much as possible under my account.


----------



## LaminatedMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24207603
> 
> 
> Oh you are in Malaysia. How did all of this go down? I ask because of your last statement of "send me a used product." Did you buy the set from a retailer and said retailer put in an order with samsung or a distributor of samsung product? Did the retailer "order" a set from one of their stores who had the set in stock? How did you receive the set (was it shipped to your door and if so from whom, samsung, the retailer, etc. Was it shipped to the retailer who then delivered to your house? None of the above as "send" refers to you buying the set at the retailer who had it in stock and delivered it to you?) Sorry for making a big deal out of these details, I'm just trying to understand the circumstances of how you purchased the set, and what transpired after that to actually get the set into your home.
> 
> 
> I was recently burned by a company (and then my bank because they took the word of the company over mine even though I had proof, which they said they didn't need at the time and would contact me if needed) for fifty bucks because "you cancelled the free trial after the charge posted to your account" in the words of my bank. I actually cancelled the same day I signed up but apparently it didn't go through (or it was made to look like it did at the time so they could charge me with their no refund policy), when I saw the charge I went back in and repeated the cancellation process, something I shouldn't have done because firefox counted 2 visits to each cancel process page and date stamped the history with the January date, if I left it alone and disputed I could have shown that I went through the cancel process only once, and well within the trial period. Sorry, I digress, and it was only $50 which doesn't compare to your expenditure, but I'm still hot over it, and I'm sick of shady retailers / business practices which is why I'm trying to get all the info I can on your situation.
> 
> 
> Anyway, a new set is being procured for you. Is this one coming from samsung or a distributor? Directly to you or by way of the retailer? I really doubt samsung would send you a used or refurbished set, unless of course the retailer ordered a refurbished set. So out with the details
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can check the manufacture date on the label of your TV to see if it's pretty old and maybe a display model.
> 
> 
> Depending on how you are getting the new set there are some things to do. Same with the old set.
> 
> 
> Incidentally, if anyone would like premium features of smilebox.com please let me know. They charged me for a year, and I'd love for the world to use the service as much as possible under my account.


This set was actually an impulse buy after my E8000 died on me(fortunately still under warranty)

Well I purchased it from a reputable electronic chain sort of like Best Buy stateside.. One reason is they offer an additional 2 years warranty by default.. They get their supplies directly from Samsung Malaysia and apparently had some units in retail storage.. Now I've purchased TVs from them a few times without issue and I always insist on an unopened and unused set.. The set was sent over to my place by truck and I noticed down thing really fishy.. Screws attaching the tv to the stand were missing and so was the IR blaster.. I called back the salesperson and he assured me that based on the system it was an unused set.. So I went through the usual process of running break in slides and I noticed imprints of the SMART TV logo along with the banners on all corners of the screen( on the green, blue, black and white slides) sorta like the ones run in sequence in a display set in the store.. I called again to double check and he reassured me it was a brand new set(they have an extensive inventory of all their items and display sets are labeled so in the system).. I gave him the benefit if the doubt and ran pixel flipper from the WOW Bluray for two days straight and did not notice any improvement whatsoever! Went over this morning and demanded a replacement set.. It'll be arranged tomorrow(they're getting it directly from Samsung) in the meantime I get to continue using the 'defective' set until the new comes


Btw here are the pics of my set(you can compare the imprints with the store display sets running the e-pops):


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

That's hilarious (not really, but in a "I can't believe that lemon" kind of way).


I'm glad you're getting a new set. Never thought we'd see an F8500 like that.


In either case, might want to let your new set age for the first 100 hours or so before accessing things like that.


----------



## Iceberg86300

it appears that you have done everything you can on your end to make sure you get a new set.


I didn't inbox our last samsung, are the boxes stalled and glued or just glued? staples would be a dead giveaway. I used to be a bike tech, and removing the staples without destroying the box takes a careful hand and patience. But you can get them out and just leave holes that aren't super obvious.


I'd inspect the new box, look for a shipping label and the label giving the info on the TV. If you don't get the box take down the info, can check the label on the TV for manufacture date, all that info can be used to call samsung and make sure a refurbished set wasn't ordered.


I'd still check out the manufacture date on your current set. if it's old I'd definitely cal samsung. even if it's not I'd still go through the process of calling the cal center and have them check the panel hours. tell them about the partial mount assembly, that sounds really fishy. It could just be a lemon, or someone could have returned it and it somehow ended up back into new stock. You may find that the TV is already registered will samsung. Because you stated you wanted a sealed box unused set and you got IR instead I'd tell samsung you just want info on the TV to make sure you can trust the retailer. Because this could be bad for samsung I doubt they would balk at remoting in to check the serial and panel time.


hope your new set comes in perfect!


Steve


----------



## LaminatedMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24212926
> 
> 
> it appears that you have done everything you can on your end to make sure you get a new set.
> 
> 
> I didn't inbox our last samsung, are the boxes stalled and glued or just glued? staples would be a dead giveaway. I used to be a bike tech, and removing the staples without destroying the box takes a careful hand and patience. But you can get them out and just leave holes that aren't super obvious.
> 
> 
> I'd inspect the new box, look for a shipping label and the label giving the info on the TV. If you don't get the box take down the info, can check the label on the TV for manufacture date, all that info can be used to call samsung and make sure a refurbished set wasn't ordered.
> 
> 
> I'd still check out the manufacture date on your current set. if it's old I'd definitely cal samsung. even if it's not I'd still go through the process of calling the cal center and have them check the panel hours. tell them about the partial mount assembly, that sounds really fishy. It could just be a lemon, or someone could have returned it and it somehow ended up back into new stock. You may find that the TV is already registered will samsung. Because you stated you wanted a sealed box unused set and you got IR instead I'd tell samsung you just want info on the TV to make sure you can trust the retailer. Because this could be bad for samsung I doubt they would balk at remoting in to check the serial and panel time.
> 
> 
> hope your new set comes in perfect!
> 
> 
> Steve


Thanks Steve!

My present set came in a celotaped box, rather fishy at first but I was nice enough to give them the benefit of the doubt initially.. Actually just got back from the store and they've made an order directly from Samsung; should arrive in a week or two(they do things faster when you're there, rather than nervously wait for a call at home







) Sat down with them throughout the entire process! I actually flipped when they suggested I get an LCD instead! Jokers Haha


----------



## Iceberg86300

No problem! Man it came shrink wrapped!?!?


Even more fishy! Single boxes hardly ever, if ever, get the plastic wrap treatment. Not only is it a pain in the butt to do because if you don't have the equipment you walk around the product like 20 times (depending on size) holding onto a giant roll of plastic 12" wide (wonder what size they order in the metric world) by the cardboard cylinder that gives you nasty paper cuts, but it is also pointless unless you are trying to contain things. That only happens once though, gloves tend to get worn after the first attempt lol. For the most part it is only used to wrap up a pallet with a bunch of boxes so nothing goes flying in transit.


I hear ya about being in the store, they can't hide from you then lol. Nothing wrong with LCDS, although you need to spend some coin to get one with local dimming and ask that jazz. I don't like our es6500, it has the flares in the corners and doesn't really do well with a compressed sat signal. Think I'm getting used to it, and some front panel adjustments using the on board test image probably helped, but changes in brightness cause one inch sized black blocks to appear and then morph together. Fast head movements give it trouble too. Dad didn't listen when I said take it back. I'm still messing with the sat box output because the deinterlacer on the TV seems to suffer with 1080I. BD do play amazingly though. I want to get a DVDO or radiance to handle the scaling, but even with a dealer discount the parents don't want to add $800-$2000 to the price of the TV. Thinking about trying the DVDO green mini something or other which is much cheaper but only handles scaling and basic picture controls. If it does a good job it would be a nice piece of kit for the price. But of course I want the high dollar stuff with 3d lut's and ten inputs that calman can auto calibrate. As long as it supports 4k it will be future proof for at least one, maybe two more sets, and withall that power you can save some cash by buying a lower end set and letting the processor pick up the difference. Oh well, hopefully in the near future(fingers crossed) lol. If I get the calibration business back up and running I'll need a couple models on hand anyway.


Steve


----------



## Ken54321

If I use a Panny VT60 as a secondary computer monitor but do not use a desktop image which means the screen will be all black with no windows 7 bar - just all black for hours at a time. Will this constant black image cause burn in, or in any way damage or degrade the tv?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken54321*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24213134
> 
> 
> If I use a Panny VT60 as a secondary computer monitor but do not use a desktop image which means the screen will be all black with no windows 7 bar - just all black for hours at a time. Will this constant black image cause burn in, or in any way damage or degrade the tv?



If there is no image on a black screen I do not see how this could cause burn-in or IR, assuming the all black image takes the entire screen, i.e. no black bars as in certain wide screen formats.


----------



## Ken54321

I guess i don't really understand how plasma actually works. I've heard that having black bars can cause burn in so I thought maybe the entire screen being black would be a burn in issue as well which would eventually make the screen even dimmer. I guess my assumption is that each of the pixels is emitting something causing the screen to be black but if the pixel is just being turned off I guess that would be OK but then wouldn't that make black bars OK also?


----------



## doveman

I was wondering about this myself. Why is it bad to have 4:3 content displayed with black bars either side and instead it's recommended to set the bars to gray (which I really don't like the look of). What about film content, where there's black bars above and below embedded in the source, so that we can't change those to grey, wouldn't they be equally as damaging? I guess we can zoom the picture in to get rid of these but then we're losing a lot of the film from either side and probably degrading the picture that we can still see and it seems rather daft to get a Plasma for the much better picture quality, most evident with film-source material which tends not to be 16:9, if we then have to mess up the picture to get rid of the black bars.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214149
> 
> 
> I was wondering about this myself. Why is it bad to have 4:3 content displayed with black bars either side and instead it's recommended to set the bars to gray (which I really don't like the look of). What about film content, where there's black bars above and below embedded in the source, so that we can't change those to grey, wouldn't they be equally as damaging? I guess we can zoom the picture in to get rid of these but then we're losing a lot of the film from either side and probably degrading the picture that we can still see and it seems rather daft to get a Plasma for the much better picture quality, most evident with film-source material which tends not to be 16:9, if we then have to mess up the picture to get rid of the black bars.



Almost all of the bluray content I watch has black bars. I also game and watch a lot of other varied content on my ST50. I have not had a problem.


----------



## hpp8140

From what I understand 4:3 or letterbox bars don't cause burn-in, the issue is the uneven aging. The unused pixels in the bars will age less than the center of the screen and over time may appear brighter.


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hpp8140*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214333
> 
> 
> From what I understand 4:3 or letterbox bars don't cause burn-in, the issue is the uneven aging. The unused pixels in the bars will age less than the center of the screen and over time may appear brighter.



OK, that makes more sense, as I guess the black bars in Blu-Ray content are still "using" the pixels, whereas the black bars on the TV when watching 4:3 content just leave those pixels switched off? That is unless displaying black is done by switching the pixel off, in which case it would seem that the black bars in Blu-Ray content would result in those areas not aging evenly with the rest of the screen as well.


----------



## wxman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214509
> 
> 
> OK, that makes more sense, as I guess the black bars in Blu-Ray content are still "using" the pixels, whereas the black bars on the TV when watching 4:3 content just leave those pixels switched off? That is unless displaying black is done by switching the pixel off, in which case it would seem that the black bars in Blu-Ray content would result in those areas not aging evenly with the rest of the screen as well.



The black bars in blu ray movies will cause the same uneven wear as the 4:3 content bars. So if you watch a lot of either content, eventually you will have display issues and it will become noticeable.


----------



## Ken54321

So its the unevenness that's the issue? So if the screen is all black there's no problem. Would the same be true if I decided to have the screen all of another particular color such as blue?


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wxman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214568
> 
> 
> The black bars in blu ray movies will cause the same uneven wear as the 4:3 content bars. So if you watch a lot of either content, eventually you will have display issues and it will become noticeable.



OK, so is the reasoning behind making the 4:3 content bars grey instead of black that this makes them wear the pixels the same as those in the 4:3 area where the picture is displaying. I would be inclined to think that the grey bars, being constantly lit, would wear those pixels somewhat more than the picture area, where they're constantly changing brightness but I suppose that's still better than having the content bar areas not aging at all, whilst the rest of the screen is.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken54321*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214921
> 
> 
> So its the unevenness that's the issue? So if the screen is all black there's no problem. Would the same be true if I decided to have the screen all of another particular color such as blue?



I think you would be OK, as all phosphors would be aging at the same rate.


----------



## B-Ben

So I need some advice. Yesterday I purchased a 60ST60 at Best Buy. I purchased the floor model for 1100 which I thought was a good deal (it was up since August). I watched it for about 30 min at the store and saw nothing wrong with the picture. Took it home and immediately started watching the Hawks game and noticed "Panasonic" in the middle of the screen. I played the screen wipe overnight hoping that it would go away and played a RGB pixel "thingy" for about an hour this morning and it seems to have faded but I can still definitely see it. I really LOVE the picture and the colors that thing produces but I watch a lot of hockey and if this doesn't go away I might not be able to stand it. I have 15 days to try and get rid of the IR/Burn-In and either keep or return it. I've also heard that if it is TRULY burn in, that you will see the image when the screen is off. Is this true? SO, question is, should I return it because my efforts are useless, or continue trying to wipe the screen clean?


Thanks!


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *B-Ben*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24215194
> 
> 
> So I need some advice. Yesterday I purchased a 60ST60 at Best Buy. I purchased the floor model for 1100 which I thought was a good deal (it was up since August). I watched it for about 30 min at the store and saw nothing wrong with the picture. Took it home and immediately started watching the Hawks game and noticed "Panasonic" in the middle of the screen. I played the screen wipe overnight hoping that it would go away and played a RGB pixel "thingy" for about an hour this morning and it seems to have faded but I can still definitely see it. I really LOVE the picture and the colors that thing produces but I watch a lot of hockey and if this doesn't go away I might not be able to stand it. I have 15 days to try and get rid of the IR/Burn-In and either keep or return it. I've also heard that if it is TRULY burn in, that you will see the image when the screen is off. Is this true? SO, question is, should I return it because my efforts are useless, or continue trying to wipe the screen clean?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If it is fading, keep trying the pixel flipper. I use the Disney WoW disc pixel flipper. Give it time and run the pixel flipper overnight for several days. If that doesn't work, I would return it within the 15 day window. The fact that it is already fading is a good sign.


----------



## B-Ben

Thanks, I THINK it's fading, but it could just be me desperately hoping it goes away and seeing what I want to see! I don't have the WOW disc but tried the "Jscreen" video on youtube. Is this similar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2eQhhMvi-U


----------



## cyberbri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214980
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wxman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24214568
> 
> 
> The black bars in blu ray movies will cause the same uneven wear as the 4:3 content bars. So if you watch a lot of either content, eventually you will have display issues and it will become noticeable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so is the reasoning behind making the 4:3 content bars grey instead of black that this makes them wear the pixels the same as those in the 4:3 area where the picture is displaying. I would be inclined to think that the grey bars, being constantly lit, would wear those pixels somewhat more than the picture area, where they're constantly changing brightness but I suppose that's still better than having the content bar areas not aging at all, whilst the rest of the screen is.
Click to expand...


If you are into fitness at all, think of the uneven wear as "skipping leg day" --> http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/61/13/4f4f456c626ed8699a2da44d0773bb86-leg-day-1.jpg


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24196066
> 
> 
> Does this look right so far? Probably requires Chrome but may work in other browsers:
> 
> CleanScreen


Hi Chris, Thanks for this! Quick couple questions, is this downloadable? Also, it has vertical lines across the screen. Will that cause IR instead of remove it?


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24216650
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Chris, Thanks for this! Quick couple questions, is this downloadable? Also, it has vertical lines across the screen. Will that cause IR instead of remove it?



There should not be lines across the screen. Which browser and OS are you using? It's a work in progress and I would avoid using it if something does not look right. If you have a screen shot it might help be diagnose. You can Save Page As... to save it and run it offline.


I just got the WoW disc today to A/B test. It seems WoW on the PS4 just blasts white (and maybe some RBG pixels) 24 - 30 times a second. What I am doing is firing off RGB pixels 30 times a second (at least it tries to based on your hardware) and run a greyscale snow box across the screen to wipe pixels. I am not sure which approach makes more sense but I am assuming that if my R/G/B distribution is uniform there's no harm and it's working the pixels.


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberbri*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24215936
> 
> 
> If you are into fitness at all, think of the uneven wear as "skipping leg day" --> http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/61/13/4f4f456c626ed8699a2da44d0773bb86-leg-day-1.jpg



lol.


Thinking about it some more, I guess as we can't do anything about the Blu-Ray bars then it's probably not worth worrying about the 4:3 bars and setting them to an annoying gray. As long as we don't watch excessive amounts of either Blu-Ray or 4:3 content and the majority is 16:9 that is. I'll leave the bars on gray for 4:3 and try and avoid Blu-Ray content for the first 300 hours or so whilst I season the panel, as I understand that's when it's most vulnerable to uneven aging.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24196066
> 
> 
> Does this look right so far? Probably requires Chrome but may work in other browsers:
> 
> CleanScreen


They are not really lines but seems like some colors are lighter which creates columns... but over all I think what you created will work.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24216805
> 
> 
> There should not be lines across the screen. Which browser and OS are you using? It's a work in progress and I would avoid using it if something does not look right. If you have a screen shot it might help be diagnose. You can Save Page As... to save it and run it offline.
> 
> 
> I just got the WoW disc today to A/B test. It seems WoW on the PS4 just blasts white (and maybe some RBG pixels) 24 - 30 times a second. What I am doing is firing off RGB pixels 30 times a second (at least it tries to based on your hardware) and run a greyscale snow box across the screen to wipe pixels. I am not sure which approach makes more sense but I am assuming that if my R/G/B distribution is uniform there's no harm and it's working the pixels.



Remember that R+G+B= greyscale to white. Blue phosphors tend to age more quickly because they burn at a different level, Actually, consume themselves more quickly would be a better description. So either approach should do the same thing as long as the level for each color adds up to the same time at intensity for whatever greyscale or white screen is put up.


I'm sure more technical factors come into play, like slew rates, temp, etc.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *doveman*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24217147
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> 
> Thinking about it some more, I guess as we can't do anything about the Blu-Ray bars then it's probably not worth worrying about the 4:3 bars and setting them to an annoying gray. As long as we don't watch excessive amounts of either Blu-Ray or 4:3 content and the majority is 16:9 that is. I'll leave the bars on gray for 4:3 and try and avoid Blu-Ray content for the first 300 hours or so whilst I season the panel, as I understand that's when it's most vulnerable to uneven aging.



You got it. Just take care in the beginning, as that is when the phosphors are aging quickly so it's easy to get a logo our other solid color stationary picture ghosted in. (Don't want to say burn in, that alludes to an overall effect that isn't fixable) although, it just pooped into my head that you get IR or ghosting because some pixels have aged more than others and to remedy the problem you can't reverse age, you have to age the rest of the pixels more to catch up.


I'm assuming you've already done some front panel contrast / brightness adjustments to get the set out of touch mode. With this done you can drop the contrast a bit when you have a logo, ticker, or letterbox that worries you. Just a matter if you can deal with sub par contrast ratio compared to what the TV is capable of, and a little less brightness. Then turn it back up and run slides when you aren't watching the set. This isn't required, but will get you into the stabilized pixel portion of your sets life.


Happy viewing!


----------



## Iceberg86300

I wonder if any manufacturers have looked into logging pixel time and intensity and creating an algorithm to run pixels down to the advanced "age" of any IR pixels. Or offset the intensity of the rest of the pixels to bring the luminance down to levels seen in IR affected levels.


Might be a nightmare on calibrations though.


----------



## bull3964

Black bars can't simply be a case of uneven aging. There's definitely an IR component in there.


If I were to watch a few hours of 4:3 content on my ST50 (like 2-3) and then switch to 16:9 content with large blocks of colors like cartoons, I can very clearly see the line between the 4:3 area and the black bar area. Honestly, using the grey bars does little to change that artifact, it just makes it a bit different in intensity. Those areas could not have aged noticeably in those few hours of operation. I would say the effect is more akin to the residual charge draining away from those cells while displaying the black bars which causes them to fire with a different intensity when they are brought back on line. It's probably very similar to an intensity shift you get after the TV warms up after being off for awhile, you usually just wouldn't notice it because it's the whole panel at that point.


Grey bars DO have an IR component to them. Unless you very closely match the intensity of the grey bars to the average intensity of your content, you'll find that they are either brighter or darker than the 4:3 area for a period after.


It usually fades after an hour or two of watching 16:9 content.


----------



## cpc

I posted something elsewhere, but I guess I should erase it as my question does involve what people usually use for trying reduce or eliminate IR or burn in. My 60ST30 has some green blob/banding and pink on the sides. I also have very light IR and/or burn-in in the form of 4:3 and cable box menu logo's. These things don't bother me. The dirty white/gray/beige is what bothers me. Panasonic sent a tech and the tech insisted I run a white screen for 48 hours and it will improve things. My set doesn't look too bad, and is better than it was in the past. Regardless of whether running a 100 ire white screen will work or not, I want to try so Panasonic sees that I am trying to do what they and the tech suggest.


Does anybody have an idea for what settings I should use for the 100 ire white screen?


thanks


----------



## B-Ben

No idea but please post your results as I am in a rushed process of trying to clear my screen of deep IR. In case anybody was wondering about Chris NYC's program for Disney WOW, I've been running it on my mac through Safari and it has had no problems. I left it on overnight last night to try and rid myself of the "Panasonic" IR that's right in the middle of my screen. It seemed to reduce it a little but I'm starting to loose hope. It's also running today while I'm at work. Hopefully something changes or I will be returning the unit.


----------



## Chris NYC

I've been dealing with HUD IR for going on three weeks. I got the WoW disc on Weds to see if it would fare any better than my homemade version. It took three, five hour sessions to reduce it to the point that only a very faint artifact remains on a light grey screen. Brutally stubborn IR. Hopefully this won't be the case with every game.


I've been checking the RGB distribution on my homemade WoW script and it seems right on 33.3% across all colors so I would deem it safe it use. It uses a different "algorithm" than WoW now that I've seen both and I have no idea if either it more effective than the other but one is a lot cheaper


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24218262
> 
> 
> Black bars can't simply be a case of uneven aging. There's definitely an IR component in there.
> 
> 
> If I were to watch a few hours of 4:3 content on my ST50 (like 2-3) and then switch to 16:9 content with large blocks of colors like cartoons, I can very clearly see the line between the 4:3 area and the black bar area. Honestly, using the grey bars does little to change that artifact, it just makes it a bit different in intensity. Those areas could not have aged noticeably in those few hours of operation. I would say the effect is more akin to the residual charge draining away from those cells while displaying the black bars which causes them to fire with a different intensity when they are brought back on line. It's probably very similar to an intensity shift you get after the TV warms up after being off for awhile, you usually just wouldn't notice it because it's the whole panel at that point.
> 
> 
> Grey bars DO have an IR component to them. Unless you very closely match the intensity of the grey bars to the average intensity of your content, you'll find that they are either brighter or darker than the 4:3 area for a period after.
> 
> 
> It usually fades after an hour or two of watching 16:9 content.



I wanted to respond to this saying ageing is a factor, at least in the "baby" stage of your set. However, after reading "residual charge" which I have not heard before I went into research mode.


I will stand by my posts in this thread, for now, as the jury is still out for me, and anything I have said will not be detrimental to your TV.


I've only been through one white paper so far, that being the one produced in 2005 by IDC in concert with ISF. From what I can tell the IDC did the funding and ISF completed the testing. All TV's in the test were purchased from electronics retailers (best buy and such).


It was written that ISF did simple front panel calibration before the testing, they mentioned turning them to default, but from the wording I'm not sure when and for what purpose, richer tests could have been done with the calibrations, and post test readings done in default mode. To me, at least on plasma sets this could indicate baseline #'s taken with sets adjusted out of touch mode, but then turning sets to torch mode before getting end of test #'s. The affect of this would be smaller aging numbers when compared to end of test #'s taken while the sets were still adjusted. Big piece of info there that I may have missed or misinterpreted.


Anyway, for IR they left a half life HUD on screen for 48 hours. All plasmas had "level 5" IR, being the worst, image was clearly defined and visible.


A movie was then played on a loop for 24 hours, after which all sets were "level 1", the HUD was no longer visible.


As for aging they put up a 100 IRE window and looped it 24/7 for 30 days. After this time measurements were taken and the average for the plasma sets was only a 5% loss in luminance. End of life is generally taken to be when the TV has lost 50% of the original luminance. (Affected by what settings were on the TV? I'm not sure.


This test would have been more meaningful had measurements been taken every day and plotted. At 2-3 hundred hours the plasmas could have aged 4%, with the last 1% occurring over the remainder of the test time.


I've got a few more papers to go through, hopefully newer ones. But a 48 hour burn period of a HUD on a new set only took 24 hours(maybe less) of normal viewing to remedy.


I still have questions as the paper was directed at consumers and actually had a few errors I find significant in explaining other test results.


If anybody with a new set and a meter wants to take some data over a couple months that would be awesome. Basically just put up a 100 IRE image and measure luminance, taking note of the actual hours on the TV at time of measurement. If someone isn't scared of the service menu, panel time is easily found on Samsung's (no navigation needed on my LCD samsung, it's on the first page).


Be back later after more reading, because that white paper doesn't align with what I've seen here. (Don't know why a company would go backwards in this regard, but who knows)


----------



## bull3964

All I know is my TV had over 2000 hours on it so it should have been very settled in at that point and just an hour or two of watching 4:3 material had a visible effect when switching back to 16:9. So, there has to be some other effect going on here beyond aging.


Funny enough, I could cause something similar to happen with the yellow blobs. If I put the WOW pixel flipper on in torch mode and left it for a few hours, I got a reprieve from the yellow blobs for a few minutes after switching back to my custom settings. After about 5 minutes though, they would be back again. It wasn't instant, some time had to pass after taking the TV out of torch mode before the blobs faded back in to existence.


----------



## cpc

Is a new plasma TV more sensitive to burn-in or ir when it is new? How many hours should you put on the TV with slides or full screen material before watching 2.35:1 movies or other material that does not fill the screen?


----------



## Deviant Khan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4890#post_24196066
> 
> 
> Does this look right so far? Probably requires Chrome but may work in other browsers:
> 
> CleanScreen


 

Could this be run instead of the screen savers to "season" a new plasma, or should the screen savers still be run?


----------



## somelogin

I dumbly listened to someone and reset my kuro elite and there has been stuff burnt in for weeks (I have another kuro elite, so I haven't watched it much) and am trying to figure out what to try to possibly get rid of it. I used the wow disc pixel flipper for probably 10-2 hours over that time and I don't think it did much of anything. To compound that problem, the issue which caused it still exists, so even if something is only on the screen for literally 2 seconds, it has bad IR again and so probably it will just keep burning in, which makes me hesitant to even try to get the burn in out since more will just burn in.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpc*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24240433
> 
> 
> Is a new plasma TV more sensitive to burn-in or ir when it is new? How many hours should you put on the TV with slides or full screen material before watching 2.35:1 movies or other material that does not fill the screen?



Yes. It is recommended to run full screen, logo free, images for the first 100-150 hours. You can also run colors slide to speed up the process whenever you are not watching the panel. I did this but had my panel professionally calibrated a few weeks after purchase. Running slides is no different than just watching full screen logo free TV or movies.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Deviant Khan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24242642
> 
> 
> Could this be run instead of the screen savers to "season" a new plasma, or should the screen savers still be run?



I prefer color slides as they evenly age the entire screen. I use WoW pixel flipper for IR removal.


----------



## cpc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24243516
> 
> 
> Yes. It is recommended to run full screen, logo free, images for the first 100-150 hours. You can also run colors slide to speed up the process whenever you are not watching the panel. I did this but had my panel professionally calibrated a few weeks after purchase. Running slides is no different than just watching full screen logo free TV or movies.



Sounds good. Running slides and/or full screen material, could I use whatever settings I want like Dnice, Cnet, my own? I don't plan to calibrate until after 100-150 hours. If I chose the D-Nice settings I would use his post slide prep settings for full screen material, and if I ran slides, I could use his D-nice slide prep settings.


I ran the D-nice slides on my 60ST30 and then used his settings. The TV has looked ok generally apart from minor issues. This time with a 65VT60 I don't know if I want to run the D-nice slides for 4 days before using the TV normally. I may just run slides when not watching the TV. From my experience, all TV's are different, so I don't think running his slides will make his settings that much more accurate for my set.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpc*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24243689
> 
> 
> I ran the D-nice slides on my 60ST30 and then used his settings. The TV has looked ok generally apart from minor issues. This time with a 65VT60 I don't know if I want to run the D-nice slides for 4 days before using the TV normally. I may just run slides when not watching the TV. From my experience, all TV's are different, so I don't think running his slides will make his settings that much more accurate for my set.



Running slides does nothing that watching the panel doesn't. You're just ageing the panel. In my case, I ran slides whenever I wasn't watching the panel. After set-up my panel was not shut down for two weeks straight. I had my panel, a ST50, professionally calibrated and it still looks great. Are you considering professional calibration for your VT60, its a great panel?


----------



## cpc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24243740
> 
> 
> Running slides does nothing that watching the panel doesn't. You're just ageing the panel. In my case, I ran slides whenever I wasn't watching the panel. After set-up my panel was not shut down for two weeks straight. I had my panel, a ST50, professionally calibrated and it still looks great. Are you considering professional calibration for your VT60, its a great panel?



From what I understand, the idea was, since D-nice runs those slides first before calibrating sets, apart from panel to panel variations and room differences, if you run the slides and then use his settings, you're going to have an end result in the ballpark of what a set is like after D-nice calibrates.


I will plug in some C-net and D-nice settings and use the set for 100-150 hours. After 100-150 hours, I will try the Disney Wow, Spears and Munsil and/or AVS disc to do some calibrating myself. I may consider getting my set professionally calibrated, but I'm not sure if I would find it worth the cost. I'll do some more reading on it.


I am having a 65VT60 delivered this week to replace my 60ST30 so it should be a good upgrade


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Deviant Khan*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24242642
> 
> 
> Could this be run instead of the screen savers to "season" a new plasma, or should the screen savers still be run?



I'd stick to slides for aging and this or WoW for cleaning up IR.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24227388
> 
> 
> I've been dealing with HUD IR for going on three weeks. I got the WoW disc on Weds to see if it would fare any better than my homemade version. It took three, five hour sessions to reduce it to the point that only a very faint artifact remains on a light grey screen. Brutally stubborn IR. Hopefully this won't be the case with every game.
> 
> 
> I've been checking the RGB distribution on my homemade WoW script and it seems right on 33.3% across all colors so I would deem it safe it use. It uses a different "algorithm" than WoW now that I've seen both and I have no idea if either it more effective than the other but one is a lot cheaper



Does it work with the built in Web browser on the set? I'm not home to try it out. Thanks


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24244056
> 
> 
> Does it work with the built in Web browser on the set? I'm not home to try it out. Thanks



It's written in Javascript so it's pretty resource intensive. I've tried to optimize it as best I can but I don't think the TV browser is going to be able to run it at a decent speed. If you try it let me know your results.


Even on the PS4 it's pretty slow. I have plans to do a version that runs on the PS4 GPU with webgl but won't have the time to commit for a while.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24246271
> 
> 
> 
> It's written in Javascript so it's pretty resource intensive. I've tried to optimize it as best I can but I don't think the TV browser is going to be able to run it at a decent speed. If you try it let me know your results.
> 
> 
> Even on the PS4 it's pretty slow. I have plans to do a version that runs on the PS4 GPU with webgl but won't have the time to commit for a while.


yeah, it didn't work. I just get a blank screen. It works on my laptop but not sure how to tell if it's running slow.


----------



## cyberbri

if you can make it full screen, you can hook up your laptop to the TV


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24246271
> 
> 
> It's written in Javascript so it's pretty resource intensive. I've tried to optimize it as best I can but I don't think the TV browser is going to be able to run it at a decent speed. If you try it let me know your results.
> 
> 
> Even on the PS4 it's pretty slow. I have plans to do a version that runs on the PS4 GPU with webgl but won't have the time to commit for a while.



I'll probably try it with chromecast


----------



## elmorage

So evidently network logos in the bottom right corner were not enough, now we need a hashtag in the top right as well. So much crap on the screen is obnoxious with or without IR implications.


----------



## Playdrv4me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elmorage*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24247434
> 
> 
> So evidently network logos in the bottom right corner were not enough, now we need a hashtag in the top right as well. So much crap on the screen is obnoxious with or without IR implications.



I agree. This is probably the single biggest reason I ended up opting to keep my ebay find 141FD over my brand new in the box ZT60. There's so much frieken static crap all over every edge of programming these days that the last ZT and VT I had would quickly get IR of the HGTV and Velocity logos and then it would take 12 to 18 hours for it go away when I reverted to watching zoomed in. This new one I haven't exposed to any of this as it only has about 12 hours on it, but I have no doubt it would be the same story.


But on the flip side of that token, after having the expectation that every plasma will respond similarly in ultimately varying degrees. I was astonished to find I could leave my 141FD on for DAYS with Velocity or HGTV (I work from hole a lot and the TV is in my room, so it runs practically 24/7) and I couldn't see a TRACE of the logos down there. Pioneer baked in some real nice IR rejection to their phosphors on these last Kuros. People who watch thousands of hours of movies with black bars will eventually have cumulative IR from that though, it's virtually impossible to avoid even on those. The Samsungs tend to do better with the logo thing and seem to "wipe" faster after the fact, but it's still no where near as resistant as the Kuro.


----------



## doveman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24217988
> 
> 
> You got it. Just take care in the beginning, as that is when the phosphors are aging quickly so it's easy to get a logo our other solid color stationary picture ghosted in. (Don't want to say burn in, that alludes to an overall effect that isn't fixable) although, it just pooped into my head that you get IR or ghosting because some pixels have aged more than others and to remedy the problem you can't reverse age, you have to age the rest of the pixels more to catch up.
> 
> 
> I'm assuming you've already done some front panel contrast / brightness adjustments to get the set out of touch mode. With this done you can drop the contrast a bit when you have a logo, ticker, or letterbox that worries you. Just a matter if you can deal with sub par contrast ratio compared to what the TV is capable of, and a little less brightness. Then turn it back up and run slides when you aren't watching the set. This isn't required, but will get you into the stabilized pixel portion of your sets life.
> 
> 
> Happy viewing!



Thanks. Yeah, I've done some adjustments although I never really understand what to do with the White Clipping Pattern as adjusting the Contrast doesn't seem to make much difference or affect which bars are flashing, unlike the Black Clipping pattern where it's quite obvious when it's too high and 16 or below are visibly flashing. I started a thread here if anyone has any advice http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511651/need-advice-on-settings-for-panasonic-txp50x60b 


I noticed that some 4:3 programs are actually broadcast with the black bars in the programme, so I couldn't use grey bars for those even if I wanted to, so I've just been zooming the picture for now to fill the screen and should have been running the TV, with slides (the TV has separate settings for the USB port source, so I've left those on default, which is contrast 50) when I'm not watching it, for about 300 hours by the end of this week. As you suggest, I do tend to keep the contrast down a bit if I think the program might cause problems due to logos. Most of them are thankfully quite faint these days it seems, although annoyingly the downloads from BBC iPlayer have a very bold logo in the corner so I'm avoiding watching too many of those in a row at the moment. I do notice that it doesn't look great with the contrast turned down, so push it up to 80-85 when I'm watching something I really want to enjoy.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24247252
> 
> 
> I'll probably try it with chromecast



Let me know how it goes. I'll continue to develop it to get it more in parity WoW.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24251126
> 
> 
> Let me know how it goes. I'll continue to develop it to get it more in parity WoW.



Have you tried it on your TV?


----------



## marky12

This was posted by headlesschickens which makes me nervous about the Panasonic sets.

Short-duration IR, caused by residual electric charge, is harmless and lasts only a few minutes at most. It is seen as a bright afterimage of a bright screen element. For example, you might see a light ghost of the word "Menu" if you put up a totally black screen after spending time in the menu. It cannot become permanent and is essentially not a problem (though less is still a good thing).


-Long-duration IR, supposed to be caused by what is called "MgO sputtering," can last for hours or days. It is seen as a dark afterimage of a bright screen element when viewing a mid-brightness scene. The 2012 Panasonics suffered from an unusual amount of this type of IR, which is concerning because long-duration IR can last so long that you re-expose the static element in question before it wears off, making the imprint essentially permanent if you continue to watch the offending channel or play the same games. I consider Panasonic's performance in this area last year poor because the 2012 Samsungs (only the 60"+) beat them soundly in this area, as does my 8th gen non-elite Pioneer (5080HD).


Absolutely not. That's some old mythology from back when the real concern actually was what we call "burn in." In those days you were trying to pre-age the panel evenly because the aging process was so fast at first that you could actually age images into the screen. With panel half-life in the 100,000 hours range actual burn-in is no longer the concern. It is very likely that the IR performance out of the box will be identical to the IR performance when aged by 500 or even 1000 hours. Aging with slides is something people do because they want to age the panel evenly for calibration purposes.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24254466
> 
> 
> Have you tried it on your TV?



Yup. I use it back and forth with WoW. I'll use it exclusively once it runs at a decent clip on the PS4.


----------



## bull3964




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24254522
> 
> 
> -Long-duration IR, supposed to be caused by what is called "MgO sputtering," can last for hours or days. It is seen as a dark afterimage of a bright screen element when viewing a mid-brightness scene. The 2012 Panasonics suffered from an unusual amount of this type of IR, which is concerning because long-duration IR can last so long that you re-expose the static element in question before it wears off, making the imprint essentially permanent if you continue to watch the offending channel or play the same games. I consider Panasonic's performance in this area last year poor because the 2012 Samsungs (only the 60"+) beat them soundly in this area, as does my 8th gen non-elite Pioneer (5080HD).



I can vouch for this for my ST50. Simply watching The Daily Show and Colbert report for 4 nights a week (with a bunch of other programming mixed in) would have the Comedy Central network bug persist through the remainder of the weekend. That was with a grey logo with some transparency. I found myself starting to watch the shows on my tablet or computers to avoid the problem.


I had to basically stop watching Adult Swim in the evenings without the TV being zoomed. I usually just throw it on late in the evening as I'm unwinding right before I got to bed, but the bright 100% white logo caused a ton of issues. After a few weeks of maybe an hour a day viewing, it took about a month and a half for it to fade away after making a conscious effort to have the logo show up as little as possible.


I also eventually programmed a macro into my Harmony that would change the aspect ratio setting between Size 1 and Size 2 so network bugs could be subtly shifted. However, it was really just a minor patch since even shifting the logo every 15 minutes with an hour long program would just result in me having two lighter IR spots instead of one slightly darker one.


----------



## onefatsurfer


Hi everyone, I'm new here and had a question about burn-in/IR.. 

 

I bought a P60VT60 display model this past weekend at a heck of a low price. It looked great in the store, but after bringing it home, I noticed there is a line approximately 1" high x 20" wide that is redder than the rest of the screen during light scenes.  The display model had been in use between July 2013 and this past week, for what I'm assuming is approximately 12 hours per day, running the same content on the screen all day. The content wasn't static, but there was white text in the area where the screen appears to be burned in that lingered longer than the rest of the content. 

 

I have been running the screen wipe any time I'm not watching the tv, which has definitely made some difference, but I can still see the IR/Burn-in. Figure I've run the screen wipe for approximately 18 hours per day since Sunday. I also ordered the Disney WOW bluray in the hopes that the pixel flipper will fix the issue.  

 

My question is: will this eventually go away, or should I return the tv now and find a different one? I LOVE the picture quality of this TV and don't really want to give it back, but every time there is a light scene, I can see it and it makes me sad knowing that it's there.  If I don't keep this one, I am going to search for another one, and since they're discontinued, I want to make the decision rather immediately before I can't get one anymore.

 

Thanks.

~OFS


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onefatsurfer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24255022
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, I'm new here and had a question about burn-in/IR..
> 
> 
> I bought a P60VT60 display model this past weekend at a heck of a low price. It looked great in the store, but after bringing it home, I noticed there is a line approximately 1" high x 20" wide that is redder than the rest of the screen during light scenes.  The display model had been in use between July 2013 and this past week, for what I'm assuming is approximately 12 hours per day, running the same content on the screen all day. The content wasn't static, but there was white text in the area where the screen appears to be burned in that lingered longer than the rest of the content.
> 
> 
> I have been running the screen wipe any time I'm not watching the tv, which has definitely made some difference, but I can still see the IR/Burn-in. Figure I've run the screen wipe for approximately 18 hours per day since Sunday. I also ordered the Disney WOW bluray in the hopes that the pixel flipper will fix the issue.
> 
> 
> My question is: will this eventually go away, or should I return the tv now and find a different one? I LOVE the picture quality of this TV and don't really want to give it back, but every time there is a light scene, I can see it and it makes me sad knowing that it's there.  If I don't keep this one, I am going to search for another one, and since they're discontinued, I want to make the decision rather immediately before I can't get one anymore.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ~OFS


If you can see it during content then it is a problem. No one can tell you if it will go away. If it seems to be fading then that usually is a good sign. I would run the WOW disc every time you are not using the TV up until the last day of your return window. If by that time it is still there and bothers you I would return it but that's just me. You need to make that decision.


Obviously if you can find another one that is in better condition before then, of course take the better one.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24254548
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. I use it back and forth with WoW. I'll use it exclusively once it runs at a decent clip on the PS4.


Hey Chris, Don't know if you seen this article from Sound and Vision but it has a link in there where you can download an iso DVD for image retention. Check it out- are you able to make an iso with your script? Thanks for your work thus far!

 

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/fixing-plasma-image-retention

 

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/#.UuGlJPYo4y4


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24254522
> 
> 
> This was posted by headlesschickens which makes me nervous about the Panasonic sets.
> 
> 
> Absolutely not. That's some old mythology from back when the real concern actually was what we call "burn in." In those days you were trying to pre-age the panel evenly because the aging process was so fast at first that you could actually age images into the screen. With panel half-life in the 100,000 hours range actual burn-in is no longer the concern. It is very likely that the IR performance out of the box will be identical to the IR performance when aged by 500 or even 1000 hours. Aging with slides is something people do because they want to age the panel evenly for calibration purposes.



I don't know about this. Half-Life of a TV is is what manufacturers use as the life of the set. 100,000 hours is a very long time for a display to have the output decreased by half. A huge Half-Life means nothing unless it is absolutely linear. If aging evenly for 1000 hours is considered necessary for a good calibration then it would follow that in the first 1000 hours the phosphor is aging more quickly.


So while burn in during a sets infancy is no longer a problem, you still want to watch varied content and avoid the black bars because that will cause uneven aging.


Just a thought on that argument.


I really want to see a plasma taken to it's half life with a non-stop 100 ire window, with readings taken often. Actually, I'm only concerned with the first ~10000 hours to see if the output decreases linearly from brand new, or if there is nonlinear accelerated aging during a sets infancy.


Steve

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24256412
> 
> 
> Hey Chris, Don't know if you seen this article from Sound and Vision but it has a link in there where you can download an iso DVD for image retention. Check it out- are you able to make an iso with your script? Thanks for your work thus far!
> 
> http://www.soundandvision.com/content/fixing-plasma-image-retention
> 
> http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/#.UuGlJPYo4y4



The thing with videos and iso is they are subject to compression. What WoW and my script do is turn on each exact pixel very rapidly, something that's not really possible from a video. I can't make an ISO or DVD because it's a program that executes in the browser.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Yeah, and we all know the processing power sucks in TV's, unless you could get a display mcu to execute your code, but that would be a major effort and it would only work on one TV.


I think the best bet would be if someone involved in authoring the AVS DVD/videos could put together a video that could be put into the DVD, or a standalone file that could be run from a usb stick through the TV, BD, game console, etc. would be nice to have it integrated into the disc, but usb or DVD with just the flipper on it wouldn't require putting together a new iso.


----------



## onefatsurfer

So, I checked the hours on my set.. 2431. It had probably 2350 when I picked it up, all displaying the same looped video. I think the burn in its fading, but I can still discern it during light scenes and if there is solid white or gray on the screen, namely commercials and ice hockey. I'm a huge hockey fan, so this stinks, but I'm going to keep the TV. I don't want to give back the amazing picture quality, and it's really not all that bad, and it will hopefully fade more as time goes on. My Disney Bluray comes tomorrow, so I'll run pixel flipper as much as possible once it does. I'll keep you all updated on the results.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onefatsurfer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24258204
> 
> 
> So, I checked the hours on my set.. 2431. It had probably 2350 when I picked it up, all displaying the same looped video. I think the burn in its fading, but I can still discern it during light scenes and if there is solid white or gray on the screen, namely commercials and ice hockey. I'm a huge hockey fan, so this stinks, but I'm going to keep the TV. I don't want to give back the amazing picture quality, and it's really not all that bad, and it will hopefully fade more as time goes on. My Disney Bluray comes tomorrow, so I'll run pixel flipper as much as possible once it does. I'll keep you all updated on the results.



If the IR is fading you will likely be ok. Run the Disney pixel flipper for several days, if you can, and this should help with fading the IR further.


----------



## LoofPopstar


Hi all. I've been popping in and out of this thread for the past few days. I'm worried that I've permanently burned the Dark Souls HUD into my plasma.

 

So I got the Panasonic ST60 about a month and a half ago. At first - like almost immediately out of the box after using Disney WOW for about 15 minutes to calibrate it - I was mostly using it to play The Last of Us, which has no static images that are constantly on the screen. I watched a few movies as well. I doubt I got to 100 hours though. The contrast was set to 81. The Last of Us took me about 20 hours to beat. After that I played Dark Souls for probably a good 55 hours. Sometimes I'd play for 4-6 hours a day, and I didn't do much else. My girlfriend would occasionally watch stuff on the TV during that period, but not much.

 

Now I have a faint red/orange discoloration on the bottom left where the equipment is displayed, some in the top left where the health/stamina bars are, and one in the bottom right for the soul counter. I haven't played the game since I noticed it a week ago. I've let a few blu-rays run their course on the screen, played some other games without HUDs, and let the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper run for a couple hours (about an hour at a time, twice). Nothing seems to have helped in the slightest. I've been somewhat frantically searching for info on this, and I've been reading that image retention can take anywhere from a couple hours to a few months to go away. I'm not sure what to believe, really, or whether what I have is image retention or burn-in. I found a youtube video or two showing image retention on someone's tablet screen, and it looks more like a ghostly after-image than the semi-transparent red smears that I'm seeing on my TV. That makes me worry that I've permanently screwed up those spots on my screen. It's not the worst, and it's usually not noticeable, but it sucks because my TV is so new and because I'd read tons of stuff essentially saying "Permanent burn-in on newer plasmas is almost impossible unless you're TRYING to do it." I certainly wasn't trying, and I figured Dark Souls would be safe as long as I wasn't playing it for 10 hours a day every day. I didn't realize that turning off the TV between sessions didn't do anything, that varying the content that was playing while the screen was on was far more important.

 

So does it sound like this is permanent, or is it too early to tell? Should I bother to keep letting blu-rays or the WOW Pixel Flipper run? Also, is there a visible difference between image retention and burn-in, or do they look exactly the same and burn-in is just permanent? Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LoofPopstar*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24269056
> 
> 
> Hi all. I've been popping in and out of this thread for the past few days. I'm worried that I've permanently burned the Dark Souls HUD into my plasma.



Same TV, same game here. I only played about 10 hours of Dark Souls and that was with HUD opacity at 30% but I still had the health bar burned on the upper left of my screen for almost a month. I ran the WoW pixel flipper a bunch as well as the scene loop from the WoW disc. It's either gone or very faint. I see something there on a grey screen but it may be the AC4 health bar which I still play a lot.


Something about the Dark Souls HUD makes it especially resilient. My IR was reddish too which worried me but stubborn as it is it goes away. I am not playing that game again until someone makes a dynamic HUD mod.


----------



## LoofPopstar


Ok, hopefully it'll be the same with mine then. If and when it does go away, I'm definitely going to wait a while before playing that game again. I'll let the TV age a bit and try to limit playing anything with static images to maybe an hour at a time with the contrast turned down to 50ish (or lower). Thanks for your reply. I feel better about this now.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LoofPopstar*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24269056
> 
> 
> Hi all. I've been popping in and out of this thread for the past few days. I'm worried that I've permanently burned the Dark Souls HUD into my plasma.
> 
> 
> So I got the Panasonic ST60 about a month and a half ago. At first - like almost immediately out of the box after using Disney WOW for about 15 minutes to calibrate it - I was mostly using it to play The Last of Us, which has no static images that are constantly on the screen. I watched a few movies as well. I doubt I got to 100 hours though. The contrast was set to 81. The Last of Us took me about 20 hours to beat. After that I played Dark Souls for probably a good 55 hours. Sometimes I'd play for 4-6 hours a day, and I didn't do much else. My girlfriend would occasionally watch stuff on the TV during that period, but not much.
> 
> 
> Now I have a faint red/orange discoloration on the bottom left where the equipment is displayed, some in the top left where the health/stamina bars are, and one in the bottom right for the soul counter. I haven't played the game since I noticed it a week ago. I've let a few blu-rays run their course on the screen, played some other games without HUDs, and let the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper run for a couple hours (about an hour at a time, twice). Nothing seems to have helped in the slightest. I've been somewhat frantically searching for info on this, and I've been reading that image retention can take anywhere from a couple hours to a few months to go away. I'm not sure what to believe, really, or whether what I have is image retention or burn-in. I found a youtube video or two showing image retention on someone's tablet screen, and it looks more like a ghostly after-image than the semi-transparent red smears that I'm seeing on my TV. That makes me worry that I've permanently screwed up those spots on my screen. It's not the worst, and it's usually not noticeable, but it sucks because my TV is so new and because I'd read tons of stuff essentially saying "Permanent burn-in on newer plasmas is almost impossible unless you're TRYING to do it." I certainly wasn't trying, and I figured Dark Souls would be safe as long as I wasn't playing it for 10 hours a day every day. I didn't realize that turning off the TV between sessions didn't do anything, that varying the content that was playing while the screen was on was far more important.
> 
> 
> So does it sound like this is permanent, or is it too early to tell? Should I bother to keep letting blu-rays or the WOW Pixel Flipper run? Also, is there a visible difference between image retention and burn-in, or do they look exactly the same and burn-in is just permanent? Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.



Given how many hours you have played it will take some time to remove the IR. Run as much full screen, logo free, content as you can whenever you are watching the panel. I also recommend running the pixel flipper for several days, or more, whenever you are not watching the panel. Good Luck!


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4950#post_24257653
> 
> 
> The thing with videos and iso is they are subject to compression. What WoW and my script do is turn on each exact pixel very rapidly, something that's not really possible from a video. I can't make an ISO or DVD because it's a program that executes in the browser.



Hey Chris,


Finally got a chance to use your screen wash this weekend. Few observations:


The bottom left corner seem to have a stuck pixel that does not rotate. I had to turn the over scan on to cut out that pixel.


I don't know if it's my computer (macbook pro) but when connected the TV screen is not that bright even in vivid.


Have you considered using a scrolling bar instead of a box?


Thanks again for your efforts.


----------



## Chris NYC

Thanks for the feedback. I just noticed the pixels on my display. They are on the bottom right and left. It looks like an artifact of Mac fullscreen apps. I will look into it as well as the brightness. Working on an overhaul of this app so will incorporate your feedback as well as the scrolling bar.


----------



## NimX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *B-Ben*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4920#post_24215194
> 
> 
> So I need some advice. Yesterday I purchased a 60ST60 at Best Buy. I purchased the floor model for 1100 which I thought was a good deal (it was up since August). I watched it for about 30 min at the store and saw nothing wrong with the picture. Took it home and immediately started watching the Hawks game and noticed "Panasonic" in the middle of the screen. I played the screen wipe overnight hoping that it would go away and played a RGB pixel "thingy" for about an hour this morning and it seems to have faded but I can still definitely see it. I really LOVE the picture and the colors that thing produces but I watch a lot of hockey and if this doesn't go away I might not be able to stand it. I have 15 days to try and get rid of the IR/Burn-In and either keep or return it. I've also heard that if it is TRULY burn in, that you will see the image when the screen is off. Is this true? SO, question is, should I return it because my efforts are useless, or continue trying to wipe the screen clean?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



About fell over when I read this, as I was reading this thread for literally the exact same issue. I picked up a floor model 60ST60 last Tuesday from Best Buy and like you didn't notice anything wrong with it in the store, so I decided to take a chance on it. Brought it home and set it all up. Watched a bit of regular TV via my HD Tivo and everything looked good. Then I went and hooked my HTPC up to it, dropped out to the desktop and opened a file explorer window and about fell over as a giant Panasonic logo filled the dead center of the screen over the white explorer window. Immediately sat there thinking how in the heck did I miss that??? Started watching a movie on it and the first bright scene that came up you could clearly read the logo.


I ran the screen wipe for a good length of time and Chris NYC's pixel flipper for a bit in addition, and it did get significantly better, but after a few days decided it still wasn't good enough for what I paid for the TV. I couldn't guarantee to myself that it would eventually be completely gone. It went back on Sunday. So a word of caution for anyone picking up some of the floor models that are now being sold off. If I had done some more research ahead of time and knew about it I could have turned on the screen wipe in the store which clearly showed the IR/Burn-In.


----------



## B-Ben

It's a tough decision to make! I have until this Wed to return mine and I'm fighting with the decision. I've run quite a few different programs over the last week and I can still see the Panasonic logo when it's a very light scene, albeit very lightly. On the opposite end, I've watched a few movies on it and was literally blown away by the beautiful picture quality. What did you end up going with if you don't mind my asking?


----------



## onefatsurfer

As an update, I ran the wow pixel flipper all night and all day today, and the burn in is noticeably improved. If it continues like this, it will be eliminated in a week or so. I am definitely keeping my set. The pixel flipper did a lot more than screen wipe


----------



## Playdrv4me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NimX*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24274005
> 
> 
> About fell over when I read this, as I was reading this thread for literally the exact same issue. I picked up a floor model 60ST60 last Tuesday from Best Buy and like you didn't notice anything wrong with it in the store, so I decided to take a chance on it. Brought it home and set it all up. Watched a bit of regular TV via my HD Tivo and everything looked good. Then I went and hooked my HTPC up to it, dropped out to the desktop and opened a file explorer window and about fell over as a giant Panasonic logo filled the dead center of the screen over the white explorer window. Immediately sat there thinking how in the heck did I miss that??? Started watching a movie on it and the first bright scene that came up you could clearly read the logo.
> 
> 
> I ran the screen wipe for a good length of time and Chris NYC's pixel flipper for a bit in addition, and it did get significantly better, but after a few days decided it still wasn't good enough for what I paid for the TV. I couldn't guarantee to myself that it would eventually be completely gone. It went back on Sunday. So a word of caution for anyone picking up some of the floor models that are now being sold off. If I had done some more research ahead of time and knew about it I could have turned on the screen wipe in the store which clearly showed the IR/Burn-In.



This problem applies *specifically* to the 60ST60 because this is the TV that was always on the island display out in the middle of the floor at most BBs. On this particular display they played Panasonic's demo reel and NOT the normal BB demo reel which is designed to not have any bright static images on it. On the Panasonic demo the "Panasonic' logo is in bright white over and and over and over again at the beginning of the rather short demo. This is why it's emblazened into every 60ST60 demo. So it's a good idea to check whether the TV was a customer return (preferable in this case) or actually store demo. Hours check will confirm if they know what they're talking about.


Now... With that said, I have my own question about IR that has been puzzling me lately... It is said that especially in the case of "black bar" IR where a delineation begins to appear at the top and bottom of the screen what you're actually seeing is uneven phosphor wear. Am I correct in assuming that unless you placed a pattern on the screen that was the exact INVERSE of the current delineation (for example running pixel flipped or solid WHITE bars at the top and bottom) there's nothing you can really do for this? Because if you ran say, the WOW pixel flipper, on the whole screen... Wouldn't the heavier aged pixels just keep aging ahead of the less aged ones in perpetuity? Hope that makes sense.


----------



## NimX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *B-Ben*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24274186
> 
> 
> It's a tough decision to make! I have until this Wed to return mine and I'm fighting with the decision. I've run quite a few different programs over the last week and I can still see the Panasonic logo when it's a very light scene, albeit very lightly. On the opposite end, I've watched a few movies on it and was literally blown away by the beautiful picture quality. What did you end up going with if you don't mind my asking?



At the moment I'm back to my 9 1/2 year old Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY which I'm convinced will outlive me. It had been destined to a basement workout area, with the ST60 replacing it in the living room.


However on Friday I went to another Best Buy with a Magnolia in it to look at a floor model 60VT60. Unfortunately it had been displaying ESPN constantly for so long that it had some IR of it's own, the ESPN logo and 'bars' on the bottom and left sides of the screen. Nothing as bad as the logo from the ST60, but it also had about a 1000 more hours on it than the ST60 did so I decided against it. However then what I have to say was the most helpful Best Buy manager I've ever encountered offered to check the inventory system to find a new in box one for me at another store and have it shipped. I don't have it in my hands yet but assuming all goes well I should have a new 60VT60 by the end of the week. Cost me quite a bit more than the floor model ST60, but after the first floor model experience I decided I would just be happier with a new one and lucked out that this manager was able to locate me one.


In all reality with some more time I probably could have gotten the IR on the ST60 to the point where it was barely visible, but it was one of those things where once you see it you can't 'unsee' it. If I couldn't have completely gotten rid of it I would always know its there and it would just bug me.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onefatsurfer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24274291
> 
> 
> As an update, I ran the wow pixel flipper all night and all day today, and the burn in is noticeably improved. If it continues like this, it will be eliminated in a week or so. I am definitely keeping my set. The pixel flipper did a lot more than screen wipe



Good to hear. The flipper does wonders. I find the wipe to be useful only as a preventative. I'll run it sometimes after watching a letterbox film just to give the black areas a wake-up call.


The Bioshock HUD IR on my screen has disappeared almost completely, but now playing any video games with HUDs frightens me. I'm trying to mix up my games more and not play any single game for long periods of time.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24276711
> 
> 
> Good to hear. The flipper does wonders. I find the wipe to be useful only as a preventative. I'll run it sometimes after watching a letterbox film just to give the black areas a wake-up call.
> 
> 
> The Bioshock HUD IR on my screen has disappeared almost completely, but now playing any video games with HUDs frightens me. I'm trying to mix up my games more and not play any single game for long periods of time.


Yep the pixel flipper is your friend. After long gaming sessions you can always run the flipper for a few hours or even overnight afterwards. Works great for my panel.


----------



## onefatsurfer

The $34 per year average energy cost is a joke, now that I'm running my TV continuously for days on end.. Well worth it though!


----------



## Playdrv4me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onefatsurfer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24278640
> 
> 
> The $34 per year average energy cost is a joke, now that I'm running my TV continuously for days on end.. Well worth it though!



Well it's calculated at 6 hours a day. Mine's on just about 24/7 so basically multiply that figure four-fold. Still, not a whole hell of a lot on a per year basis.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24272417
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I just noticed the pixels on my display. They are on the bottom right and left. It looks like an artifact of Mac fullscreen apps. I will look into it as well as the brightness. Working on an overhaul of this app so will incorporate your feedback as well as the scrolling bar.


Hey Chris, 

 

Were you able to do any updates? Just wondering, is it possible to make it into a executable program? The reason I'm asking is that I worry that when connected to the site, there is a chance that there is a disconnection if I leave it on and not attending to it. Thanks


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24285833
> 
> 
> Hey Chris,
> 
> 
> Were you able to do any updates? Just wondering, is it possible to make it into a executable program? The reason I'm asking is that I worry that when connected to the site, there is a chance that there is a disconnection if I leave it on and not attending to it. Thanks



I am working on one that will run a lot faster (like WoW) but it's not trivial so it may take some time. Once it's loaded it's loaded. Even if your Internet connect goes down it won't stop. You can always save the page and open it in your browser. I'll attach the HTML file here.

cleanscreen.zip 2k .zip file


----------



## fishburn

thanks Chris for this awesome tool, what settings do you recommend? Like speed, Pixel scrubber, scrubber type and palette?


----------



## onefatsurfer

After getting the burn in down a lot, it seems the efficacy of the pixel flipper is tapering off. I still have a bar that's burned in, but it's really only visible during hockey games, which I happen to watch a lot. Not bad enough that I regret buying the TV, especially since it looks incredible during all other content. Anyone have any luck getting rid of the last 10% of burn in? I've been running screen wipe and pixel flip for a couple weeks now


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *onefatsurfer*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24286775
> 
> 
> After getting the burn in down a lot, it seems the efficacy of the pixel flipper is tapering off. I still have a bar that's burned in, but it's really only visible during hockey games, which I happen to watch a lot. Not bad enough that I regret buying the TV, especially since it looks incredible during all other content. Anyone have any luck getting rid of the last 10% of burn in? I've been running screen wipe and pixel flip for a couple weeks now



It might take some additional time - month or so - for it to completely disappear.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24287260
> 
> 
> It might take some additional time - month or so - for it to completely disappear.


Agreed. Also watch as much full screen, logo free, TV as you can.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fishburn*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24286196
> 
> 
> thanks Chris for this awesome tool, what settings do you recommend? Like speed, Pixel scrubber, scrubber type and palette?


Please note that Chris is still developing this tool. I hope this will help a lot of people who run into IR issues. 

 

Thanks again for your efforts Chris.


----------



## fishburn

I know. I just want to know what are the best settings to use...


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24287737
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Also watch as much full screen, logo free, TV as you can.


To be honest, sometimes logo free is just not an option for a normal standard household. Most TV shows have solid or translucent logos, also sports telecast will most definitely have scoreboards and logos. This issue with this particular tv is the stubborn IR that it has. Other plasmas have temporary IR which goes away quickly.


----------



## paligap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24287791
> 
> 
> To be honest, sometimes logo free is just not an option for a normal standard household. Most TV shows have solid or translucent logos, also sports telecast will most definitely have scoreboards and logos. This issue with this particular tv is the stubborn IR that it has. Other plasmas have temporary IR which goes away quickly.



Which particular TV are you referring to?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24287791
> 
> 
> To be honest, sometimes logo free is just not an option for a normal standard household. Most TV shows have solid or translucent logos, also sports telecast will most definitely have scoreboards and logos. This issue with this particular tv is the stubborn IR that it has. Other plasmas have temporary IR which goes away quickly.



Agreed, solid and translucent logos are very common nowadays. Translucent logos aren't as bad thankfully. If you panel is very susceptible to IR, you may have to get into the habit of running a pixel flipper overnight at least once week. My panel does ok, but I still run the pixel flipper biweekly and this helps quite a bit with any nuisance IR.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fishburn*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24286196
> 
> 
> thanks Chris for this awesome tool, what settings do you recommend? Like speed, Pixel scrubber, scrubber type and palette?



I try to get the speed to as close to 1 as hardware allows. If it looks like it's not refreshing often enough tune it down. I keep the palette at full and may tweak that with the next release. Scrubber I don't use often but I do white. I'll make that a bar next release vs a box.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paligap*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24287820
> 
> 
> 
> Which particular TV are you referring to?


The ST60- I haven't had to deal with much IR but there is a stubborn USA logo (only on light green color screens) that I've been trying to get rid of...


----------



## paligap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24288760
> 
> 
> The ST60- I haven't had to deal with much IR but there is a stubborn USA logo (only on light green color screens) that I've been trying to get rid of...



Thanks


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24271730
> 
> 
> Hey Chris,
> 
> 
> Finally got a chance to use your screen wash this weekend. Few observations:
> 
> 
> The bottom left corner seem to have a stuck pixel that does not rotate. I had to turn the over scan on to cut out that pixel.
> 
> 
> I don't know if it's my computer (macbook pro) but when connected the TV screen is not that bright even in vivid.
> 
> 
> Have you considered using a scrolling bar instead of a box?
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your efforts.



I uploaded a new version with fixes for most of your items. I cannot fix the borders at the bottom of the screen on the Mac as that's built into the OS. I advise people on Macs to be wary of that and zoom in to avoid that causing issues.


I am still working on the fast version but it will be a while before anything comes out of it.

CleanScreen


----------



## dioxholster

I left my panasonic ut50 on a sports channel all day, and it left the channel logo. I figured it would disappear over time but a week and half later its still there but very faint and you can only see it when watching animated movies. Is it a burn in? when using the color only slides its hard to see it but i know its there.


----------



## bull3964

From my experience with my ST50, it will likely take 1-2 months for it to go away completely, even running the pixel flipper at night.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24291458
> 
> 
> I left my panasonic ut50 on a sports channel all day, and it left the channel logo. I figured it would disappear over time but a week and half later its still there but very faint and you can only see it when watching animated movies. Is it a burn in? when using the color only slides its hard to see it but i know its there.



Sounds like it is already fading so likely just stubborn IR. I recommend running a pixel flipper and continuing to watch full screen logo free content. I watch a lot of sports and game so I run a pixel flipper weekly or biweekly depending on my viewing and gaming habits. I let the flipper run overnight and into the next day until I return home from work, so nearly 24hrs sometimes. This has worked on my ST50 for any nuisance IR.


----------



## eric3316

More of a curiosity question and not even sure if anyone would even know the real answer to this as the facts about IR and burn-in still seem so unknown to many people.


If you have a logo that has left a mark on your screen, if it fades just a little bit does that mean it cannot be considered burn-in and will continue to get better over time? If it is burn-in, will it stay exactly how dark it is and never fade at all, not even 1% or can burn-in also fade over time?


I have also read from some people that burn in can be seen when the TV is off as well. Not sure how true that one is but makes sense if it is actually burned into the screen.


Just throwing some questions out there that had me thinking. I find it fascinating how little truly is know about IR and Burn-in and you never really can tell what you have until one thing or the other happens. Even if something doesn't fade over a years time, how do you know if maybe in 3 years or 5 years it might have completely gone away. That is why I ask if burn-in can also fade and in that case there truly is no way to tell what you have ever because you never know if another year will get that marking out since there is no time limit on how long in can stay there.


----------



## 9179mhb

IR can be reversed BI cannot.


IR/BI can vary in magnitude. More sever IR requires more time to reverse, more severe BI is more noticeable.


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *9179mhb*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24292201
> 
> 
> IR can be reversed BI cannot.
> 
> 
> IR/BI can vary in magnitude. More sever IR requires more time to reverse, more severe BI is more noticeable.


Yeah, but you can't really tell if it is burn in until it doesn't go away. So everything can technically be considered burn-in from the start until proven it is not. And then even if it is still there maybe enough time just wasn't spent on removing it.


It is kind of like buying an open box TV that has the ESPN logo on it. Is it Bi, is it IR? There is absolutely no way to tell. You won't even be able to tell within a 30 day window. It can take 6 months, a year, maybe even 2 years to get completely rid of it. Maybe it will never go away. There really is no way to tell the difference was really my point unless BI has been proven to never fade at all with any treatment and will stay at the same exact brightness from day one to year 5.


----------



## bull3964

From a purely technical perspective, the difference is the mechanism that causes the artifact.


IR is caused by a buildup of Magnesium Oxide in the affected cells that changes the light output of the phosphors. Over time, those buildups go away and the output returns to normal.


BI is caused by uneven wearing of the phosphors. That cannot dissipate in time since the wear will always be uneven from that point out.


Now, the problem is, it's next to impossible to tell from viewing the set which is which. However, I would imagine that most plasmas are at least as resistant to burn in as CRTs have been which means it takes a lot of abuse to make it permanent. Bad IR though, may take a month or 3 to go away fully so it's really hard to tell in a typical return time-frame if it's IR or BI.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4980#post_24291243
> 
> 
> I uploaded a new version with fixes for most of your items. I cannot fix the borders at the bottom of the screen on the Mac as that's built into the OS. I advise people on Macs to be wary of that and zoom in to avoid that causing issues.
> 
> 
> I am still working on the fast version but it will be a while before anything comes out of it.
> 
> CleanScreen



Hey Chris, the screen still doesn't look bright enough. I'm wondering if it has to do with the laptop. When I press the menu button on the TV, the part that isn't covered by the menu screen becomes significantly brighter. Interesting... Maybe too many pixels working at the same time? Do you have this issue? Thanks


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24297446
> 
> 
> Hey Chris, the screen still doesn't look bright enough. I'm wondering if it has to do with the laptop. When I press the menu button on the TV, the part that isn't covered by the menu screen becomes significantly brighter. Interesting... Maybe too many pixels working at the same time? Do you have this issue? Thanks



I see that as a problem with plasma in general. For instance, if I open Textedit as a window the white background is nice and white. When I maximize it the gets dull and grey. I think it has to do with power and is what you hear about when people complain that hockey games look dull on plasmas.


My pixel flipper looks the same as WoWs on my set so I chalk it up to the TV.


----------



## vinnie97

Correct, that's ABL (automatic brightness limiting) circuitry. It seems plasmas of years past were not as heavily afflicted by it in comparison to newer models (with the exception of the F8500).


----------



## myared

My apologies if this has been discussed before (did a search but couldn't find anything related)... I'm trying to run the Disney WOW pixel flipper on a VT30 but am having trouble starting it.


So I navigate to the pixel flipper option, chose it, get the text describing the flipper and how long it might take to work and prompting me to press Enter to start the flipper. I press Enter; the screen goes black and is then stuck. Nothing happens. Only once did I reach that point and saw a message in green letters that says "1080 p downloading" or something like that and then the flipper started shortly after. I've never been able to duplicate that. I always reach that black screen and after several minutes of waiting I just give up and turn everything off. I'm running the disc on an OPPO 93 if it makes a difference. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## cpc

I am trying to run an all white slide on my 60ST30 and I keep getting the VIERA logo appearing and disappearing around the screen. How do I disable this? I ran the white slide a few weeks ago and it was fine. I can figure this out.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpc*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24300894
> 
> 
> I am trying to run an all white slide on my 60ST30 and I keep getting the VIERA logo appearing and disappearing around the screen. How do I disable this? I ran the white slide a few weeks ago and it was fine. I can figure this out.



Logo IR or the actual logo ?


Check screensaver settings.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24297733
> 
> 
> I see that as a problem with plasma in general. For instance, if I open Textedit as a window the white background is nice and white. When I maximize it the gets dull and grey. I think it has to do with power and is what you hear about when people complain that hockey games look dull on plasmas.
> 
> 
> My pixel flipper looks the same as WoWs on my set so I chalk it up to the TV.



Hey Chris,


Just a thought... If you make a half screen pixel flipper that scrolls though the screen, that may enable the screen to run brighter. Kind of like the the screen wipe but with the pixel flipper. Let me know you think...


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24304561
> 
> 
> Hey Chris,
> 
> 
> Just a thought... If you make a half screen pixel flipper that scrolls though the screen, that may enable the screen to run brighter. Kind of like the the screen wipe but with the pixel flipper. Let me know you think...



That's actually a really good idea. I've been so wrapped up in emulating WoW that I missed the point. WoW's pixel flipper is meant to kick stuck pixels and as an after effect it cleans up IR. A moving bar might do better to reduce IR than full screen, plus it will move a lot faster.


I'll code up a quick version tonight and try it out. Thanks!


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24305583
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually a really good idea. I've been so wrapped up in emulating WoW that I missed the point. WoW's pixel flipper is meant to kick stuck pixels and as an after effect it cleans up IR. A moving bar might do better to reduce IR than full screen, plus it will move a lot faster.
> 
> 
> I'll code up a quick version tonight and try it out. Thanks!


Cool, let me know when you have it working. Thanks


----------



## cpc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24303105
> 
> 
> Logo IR or the actual logo ?
> 
> 
> Check screensaver settings.



The Logo itself being displayed by the TV. I will check screensaver settings. I don't remember having to do this before.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpc*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24307382
> 
> 
> The Logo itself being displayed by the TV. I will check screensaver settings. I don't remember having to do this before.



To tell you the truth not very up on Samsung products, but I have seen this behavior before in other places. My Panasonic lcd will start doing weird stuff if a static signal is fed for too long, or if there is no input from the user for a period of time as well. I would think a plasma would just shut off.


In fact that is what my TV does. Do you lose the slide and then the logo comes on?


Look for anything that has to do with a screensaver, power savings, or showroom. If left idle for any decent amount of time these are generally the things that will kick in on any TV. Should be able to set each one to what you like. If there is a showroom option turn that of completely, although on a new TV I don't know why that would be on anyway.


When I first St up the Panasonic it kept turning off every 4 hours. Manual was built into the TV while I was trying to find info in the paper manual. Took me about 20 minutes going through the menus to find the "turn of after X time of inactivity " setting. Of course it was the last place I looked LOL.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24306737
> 
> 
> Cool, let me know when you have it working. Thanks



Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:

IR Scrubber


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24308151
> 
> 
> 
> Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:
> 
> IR Scrubber


Do you think it will benefit with a bigger bar or a second bar?


----------



## fishburn

Maybe a bigger bar and speed option










Nice job!


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24308151
> 
> 
> Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:
> 
> IR Scrubber



Also, the black screen doesn't seem to be completely black. There's pixels in dark green dancing around.


----------



## Chris NYC

Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.


I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24309522
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.
> 
> 
> I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?



It's not on my laptop but when it is on full screen on the plasma,it has that effect. The pixels are blinking in different areas though so I don't think it's snow. Maybe it's the cable I'm using. Also the pixels are moving so fast now that I'm wondering if they cycle through when it pans across the screen.


Did you get good results with the IR you got?


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24309522
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.
> 
> 
> I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?



I think I figured it out, it has to do with the brightness of the panel. Try using vivid and turn the brightness up. I think it's default at 12 and that should show the effect I talking about. You have to turn the lights off though.


----------



## eric3316

Nevermind....


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24313044
> 
> 
> I think I figured it out, it has to do with the brightness of the panel. Try using vivid and turn the brightness up. I think it's default at 12 and that should show the effect I talking about. You have to turn the lights off though.



Very strange. I generally run these things in the default "Home Theatre" mode of my ST60. Vivid gets the TV too hot and I don't like running it long. I didn't run it long enough to get much results. I have the faint outline of a HUD still on my screen which has been brutal to get out. I am sure it will go away completely over time just waiting.


I'l try and add those features tonight if I can.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24314315
> 
> 
> Very strange. I generally run these things in the default "Home Theatre" mode of my ST60. Vivid gets the TV too hot and I don't like running it long. I didn't run it long enough to get much results. I have the faint outline of a HUD still on my screen which has been brutal to get out. I am sure it will go away completely over time just waiting.
> 
> 
> I'l try and add those features tonight if I can.



Generally I run it for about half and hour to 1 hour in vivid. I think it should be OK since the panel limits light output anyway.


Just to give you an idea of what your dealing with. I have a very faint IR of the USA logo that tool 200-300hrs to get rid of. I haven't been paying attention to it so not sure if it's still there. My contrast is at 70 and with that, most static logos are OK. The reason i think the USA logo got stuck is because of the white to dark contrast from my wife watching law and order.


----------



## marky12

Just checked, ir is still there...


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24317068
> 
> 
> Just checked, ir is still there...



Try the Disney WoW pixel flipper, it works wonders. You may have to run it several days for bad IR. I run my weekly overnight anywhere from 10-20hrs as a precaution. It works great on nuisance IR


----------



## bull3964

You know, plasma manufacturers should have come up with a way to combat network bug IR. It wouldn't be too terribly hard either.


Just look for a static image for successive frames and then apply a blur effect to it using the surrounding non-static pixels as reference points. Basically, a localized version of the blur censor effect they use to black out brands and such. The result wouldn't be any more intrusive than the original network bug and it would have at least kept some of the more hard edged and high contrast bugs in check.


By the same token, they could have done something better for 4:3 bars. It wouldn't be hard to do sort of a blur extension on the normal image into those areas. You see it all the time on news programs where 4:3 content is adapted for widescreen. You would then have a bar area that would blend in better with the content on the screen and not be left with a hard line between the 4:3 area and 16:9 area.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24320780
> 
> 
> You know, plasma manufacturers should have come up with a way to combat network bug IR. It wouldn't be too terribly hard either.
> 
> 
> Just look for a static image for successive frames and then apply a blur effect to it using the surrounding non-static pixels as reference points. Basically, a localized version of the blur censor effect they use to black out brands and such. The result wouldn't be any more intrusive than the original network bug and it would have at least kept some of the more hard edged and high contrast bugs in check.
> 
> 
> By the same token, they could have done something better for 4:3 bars. It wouldn't be hard to do sort of a blur extension on the normal image into those areas. You see it all the time on news programs where 4:3 content is adapted for widescreen. You would then have a bar area that would blend in better with the content on the screen and not be left with a hard line between the 4:3 area and 16:9 area.



I was thinking TVs should have a 3x6 inch screen on the bottom of the TV that shows network logos and scoreboards. That way we don't have to worry about burn in.


----------



## elmorage

Olympic logo is nasty...


----------



## RetroGiant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elmorage*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24322882
> 
> 
> Olympic logo is nasty...


Yep, I was hoping for their normal transparent logo but not surprised they went full color and bold. Luckily we're not big fans of the Winter Olympics so we won't be watching it much. It's gonna be a doozy though for those that have it on for hours.


----------



## Dean-NC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marky12*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24317068
> 
> 
> Just checked, ir is still there...


I'm new to plasma...I have the Panasonic ST60.  I've been super-careful (my choice/perogative), but around the 140-hour mark I spent about 2 hours fiddling with the colors/calibration settings to get things looking good.  I wasn't thinking about that harsh "Viera Menu" wording in bright white.  I ended up with that being mildly visible from normal viewing distance with normal content.  Contrast was around 65 when doing the calibration.  I did the screen-wipe built-in to the TV for several days, the Disney pixel flipper for a few days, then the "aging" feature in the service/hidden TV menu where I showed an all-white slide for a few days.  All of this with regular content watching in the evenings.

 

It's now 99% gone.  I can't see it even standing up-close, and does not show on solid color slides.  The only time it's visible is if the screen is showing a certain shade of white/light blue (sky, snowy mountains, etc) and the camera is panning/moving.  Before anyone tells me to "stop looking for it and enjoy the TV":  it doesn't bother me.  I'm just curious about plasma tech. and I'm thinking out loud here.

 

When it's there, I see the words in a slight pink/light-red color....and I have to strain to see it.  Again, it doesn't bother me...just curious if it can ever technically go away 100%.  It's not been long enough for me yet, so time will tell.  I'm wondering if this kind of IR (kind that goes to the point of not being visible except in rare scenarios) eventually goes away 100%, or is it that it's always technically there waiting to show if the condition is right.


----------



## Dean-NC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24319426
> 
> 
> 
> Try the Disney WoW pixel flipper, it works wonders. You may have to run it several days for bad IR. I run my weekly overnight anywhere from 10-20hrs as a precaution. It works great on nuisance IR


Anyone know of some blu-ray players (don't care how old) that either don't auto-turn off when idle (for running the Disney flipper)...or where this feature can be turned off?  I have the Sony s5100 which  turns off in 30-minutes and can't be disabled.  I have a Panasonic BDT-500 player coming in a couple of days, but don't know if it can be turned off on that.  I don't care if it's an older player that I buy from eBay.  I'm guessing some of the older 2008-2009 ones didn't have this.

 

Thanks.


----------



## ab2ab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dean-NC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24324759
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know of some blu-ray players (don't care how old) that either don't auto-turn off when idle (for running the Disney flipper)...or where this feature can be turned off?  I have the Sony s5100 which  turns off in 30-minutes and can't be disabled.  I have a Panasonic BDT-500 player coming in a couple of days, but don't know if it can be turned off on that.  I don't care if it's an older player that I buy from eBay.  I'm guessing some of the older 2008-2009 ones didn't have this.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I've used my Pioneer BDP-51 and Pioneer BDP-23. You have try to find either of those or the Pioneer BDP-05.


----------



## bull3964

PS3 can also be set to not turn off.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Have a laptop with HDMI or dvi? If so that could be used if it has a BD drive or if you have an external. If not you could have your disc ripped to an iso. Or you may be able to find an iso online or get it from someone here. You own the disc so any piracy concerns are out the window because it doesn't really matter where your back up copy comes from when you have the physical disc.


----------



## sawfish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24327819
> 
> 
> Have a laptop with HDMI or dvi? If so that could be used if it has a BD drive or if you have an external.



If you can hook up a computer, there's no reason to use WoW. There is a free alternative that will run forever and doesn't require a BD drive or player; here is one thread of the many I've posted describing it:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469


----------



## Dean-NC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sawfish*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24328141
> 
> 
> 
> If you can hook up a computer, there's no reason to use WoW. There is a free alternative that will run forever and doesn't require a BD drive or player; here is one thread of the many I've posted describing it:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450585/official-sony-bdp-s1100-bdp-s3100-and-bdp-s5100/720#post_23394469


 

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24327819
> 
> 
> Have a laptop with HDMI or dvi? If so that could be used if it has a BD drive or if you have an external. If not you could have your disc ripped to an iso. Or you may be able to find an iso online or get it from someone here. You own the disc so any piracy concerns are out the window because it doesn't really matter where your back up copy comes from when you have the physical disc.


 

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24324972
> 
> 
> PS3 can also be set to not turn off.


 

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ab2ab*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24324886
> 
> 
> 
> I've used my Pioneer BDP-51 and Pioneer BDP-23. You have try to find either of those or the Pioneer BDP-05.


 

Thanks guys, this is good info and will definitely help.  I'm looking at some older but good quality BD players on ebay.  Also, I was planning on making a small HTPC down the road to be a host for holding media storage (using Windows 7 or Plex).  I'm guessing I could rip the WOW flipper to that HTPC box and run it from there (good idea *Iceberg86300*).


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dean-NC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24324759
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know of some blu-ray players (don't care how old) that either don't auto-turn off when idle (for running the Disney flipper)...or where this feature can be turned off?



I have the Sony BDP-S380 and after disabling the auto-shutoff feature I'm able to run the flipper as long as I want.


----------



## Iceberg86300

I don't have the flipper but I'm wondering how it works play wise. What is the length of the flipper? I think I remember reading it is just a short clip, so is the disc set up to loop itself, or do you have to set up the loop by yourself for extended running?


Of the disc does it, has anyone tried manually looping to get around the auto shutoff? If you have to do this anyway disregard the question. But:


In my opinion if you set up a loop the player should shut up and leave you alone so to speak because obviously you want to watch pixels flipping all night.










Too bad I'm not a BD-Player software engineer. (actually I'd probably go crazy if I was, general firmware from everybody seems to be pretty stable with the exceptions of when 3D, deep color, and now 4K were added, and the rest just seems to be ported over and over to new chips with the occasional added feature and minor bug fixes.)


Players and TV's have had pull down problems forever, don't understand how manufacturers can just disregard this problem. Maybe they try to work on it, code is there to at least attempt it. But every test or calibration involves checking if it works, and everyone wants hardware that does the job properly.


----------



## bull3964

It's not a video loop. It's actually a java application. The reason why most BD players shutdown is because the player is technically in a paused state while the flipper is running.


It's pretty much the same as if you left your player sitting on a menu screen.


----------



## gus738

hi long time i havnt been to avs but i just bought a 60" samsung 5350 at costco last night . i want to use break in . 60fs5350 has a usb port so if i can use usb on repeat it would be great ?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24342946
> 
> 
> hi long time i havnt been to avs but i just bought a 60" samsung 5350 at costco last night . i want to use break in . 60fs5350 has a usb port so if i can use usb on repeat it would be great ?


You should be able to use break-in slides on the repeat setting.


----------



## gus738

ok thank you. what are the picture settings that i should keep to break in settings on the 5350 . i remember D-nice made a thread for pioneer elite break in settings. i want to know what are the break in settings for this samsung f5350


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24343692
> 
> 
> ok thank you. what are the picture settings that i should keep to break in settings on the 5350 . i remember D-nice made a thread for pioneer elite break in settings. i want to know what are the break in settings for this samsung f5350



I don't know if it matters much for break-in. For my st50 D-Nice recommend running slides at the default settings in Custom Mode. I think I may have dialed back the contrast and brightness a bit from there. I also recommend watching as much full-screen content as you can for the first 150hours.


----------



## gus738

i know i am running full content no stationary images. d nice said that while the st 150 hrs the brightness / contrast has to be increase . beyond the 150 hrs return to default settings . dont quote me on that because im not 100% sure


----------



## nxl0647


I've just noticed what I hope is only IR on my 8 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.  I only noticed it when the tv was on a gray background save screen.  

 

I'm pretty sure this is very recent, in the last month or so.  While I didn't do much special to break it in, I did leave the tv on for several nights when I first got it, changed channels, and generally was very cautious well past the first 100 hours of use and never noticed IR.  

 

The IR has not gone away with the last 24 hours of tv watching.

 

I'm considering buying the Disney WOW blu ray.  Would using this be the best shot of getting rid of IR now that it is here?  I've also tried some of the plasma fixes that are on youtube.  I'm not sure if the Disney WOW would be better or what.  

 

Any advice would be appreciated


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24372152
> 
> 
> 
> I've just noticed what I hope is only IR on my 8 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.  I only noticed it when the tv was on a gray background save screen.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is very recent, in the last month or so.  While I didn't do much special to break it in, I did leave the tv on for several nights when I first got it, changed channels, and generally was very cautious well past the first 100 hours of use and never noticed IR.
> 
> 
> 
> The IR has not gone away with the last 24 hours of tv watching.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying the Disney WOW blu ray.  Would using this be the best shot of getting rid of IR now that it is here?  I've also tried some of the plasma fixes that are on youtube.  I'm not sure if the Disney WOW would be better or what.
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated


If it's light, try running scree wipe for a few hours.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24372152
> 
> 
> I've just noticed what I hope is only IR on my 8 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.  I only noticed it when the tv was on a gray background save screen.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is very recent, in the last month or so.  While I didn't do much special to break it in, I did leave the tv on for several nights when I first got it, changed channels, and generally was very cautious well past the first 100 hours of use and never noticed IR.
> 
> 
> The IR has not gone away with the last 24 hours of tv watching.
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying the Disney WOW blu ray.  Would using this be the best shot of getting rid of IR now that it is here?  I've also tried some of the plasma fixes that are on youtube.  I'm not sure if the Disney WOW would be better or what.
> 
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated


If the screen wipe does not work, try the Disney WoW BD. Run the WoW pixel flipper overnight for several nights.


----------



## marky12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5010#post_24297733
> 
> 
> 
> I see that as a problem with plasma in general. For instance, if I open Textedit as a window the white background is nice and white. When I maximize it the gets dull and grey. I think it has to do with power and is what you hear about when people complain that hockey games look dull on plasmas.
> 
> 
> My pixel flipper looks the same as WoWs on my set so I chalk it up to the TV.


Hey Chris, Just to give you an update... what finally got rid of the IR was a few Pixar movies in vivid and a few hours of screen wipe. I don't know which one finally got rid of it though. It could be a combination of what you created, watching full content, Pixar, and screen wipe.


----------



## nxl0647


Bought the Disney Wow and I'll give it a try as soon as it arrives.  It does honestly look better to me after a few days of watching on zoom but I can still notice it on some backgrounds.  Scrolling bars don't seem to have much effect.  I'll update and tell if it works or not.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24377779
> 
> 
> Bought the Disney Wow and I'll give it a try as soon as it arrives.  It does honestly look better to me after a few days of watching on zoom but I can still notice it on some backgrounds.  Scrolling bars don't seem to have much effect.  I'll update and tell if it works or not.



If you have a test disc you can also put up a high IRE greyscale. Don't know how much plasma has changed but back in 06-09 this was actually the preferred method. ISF policy was to put up a Grey scale when the TV was not being viewed for the first couple hundred hours, and when IR showed up put the greyscale back on to get rid of it.


There are old SD version Avis discs gloating around the internet if you don't have one. just burn the ISO and put up a full window, zooming to fill the panel because it's 4:3 content. AVSHD discovered would also work. Been awhile since I looked at it, but I believe you can download greyscale patterns to a USB stick, or burn the version to a regular DVD if your player supports it. Our there is the version for streaming as well if you have a media server.


Damn my tablet keyboard sucks, replace 'our' with 'or'. Don't know why it keeps putting in our considering it's supposed to intelligently predict words.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24377779
> 
> 
> Bought the Disney Wow and I'll give it a try as soon as it arrives.  It does honestly look better to me after a few days of watching on zoom but I can still notice it on some backgrounds.  Scrolling bars don't seem to have much effect.  I'll update and tell if it works or not.


This is good news. Likely watching full screen logo free content will eventually erase the IR as well. Logo free content is hard to come by so I just run the WoW pixel flipper overnight once every two weeks. During football season I run it once a week. This habit has really helped keep my panel free of stubborn IR.


----------



## nxl0647


Blu Ray arrived today and I used the pixel flipper and discovered that my sony blu ray player shuts itself off when "paused" for 30 minutes.  What a pain.


So either I try to find another blu ray player that does not do this or borrow one or just buy the Disney Wow DVD....the dvd is actually only $12 on amazon....At this point, what's another $12?


----------



## clarkkent06




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24383193
> 
> 
> 
> Blu Ray arrived today and I used the pixel flipper and discovered that my sony blu ray player shuts itself off when "paused" for 30 minutes.  What a pain.
> 
> 
> So either I try to find another blu ray player that does not do this or borrow one or just buy the Disney Wow DVD....the dvd is actually only $12 on amazon....At this point, what's another $12?


The bluray dropped down to $18.50 last week, I bought it then.  Maybe it'll drop to that price again?

 

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Disney-WOW-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/product/B0045ASBLG


----------



## nxl0647


I already have the blu ray.  I either need to get a different blu ray player or get the dvd.

 

maybe an obvious question, is there any reason that a DVD pixel flipper would be any less adequate than the blu ray for the purposes of getting rid of IR on my plasma?


----------



## nxl0647


Also, is sony the only brand of blu ray that shuts itself off when paused?  Does anyone have a one that for sure doesn't do automatic shutdown?


----------



## onefatsurfer

Check in your players settings for a screen saver, or auto shutoff.. My Sony has an option to turn that feature off


----------



## nxl0647


Ah never mind, I see a user asked the same question above about blu rays.

 

Well, I checked my settings and there is nothing about turning off the auto shutdown feature.  I also googled the problem and the player and sony responded to some inquiries about this model saying that there is no way to turn off that feature.  

 

My parents have a samsung blu ray so maybe theirs doesn't have this issue and i can switch with them, or i can track down some of the model numbers mentioned in this thread.


----------



## clarkkent06




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24383213
> 
> 
> I already have the blu ray.  I either need to get a different blu ray player or get the dvd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe an obvious question, is there any reason that a DVD pixel flipper would be any less adequate than the blu ray for the purposes of getting rid of IR on my plasma?


 



Whoops, reading comprehension fail on my part lol


----------



## MIAaron

To those that have older and newer plasmas, has IR gotten worse in recent years?


Currently we have an old Panasonic plasma from 2006, the 42px60u. To put it bluntly, it gets abused. Static images and game huds for hours a day....on a daily basis...for years. Given the way we treat our old plasma, I firmly believed burn-in/IR had been remedied long ago. But after reading about so many people having IR issues, I'm cautious. Has it really gotten so bad that you have to run slides and other routines just to keep a nice PQ?


Thank you for any advice.


----------



## vantagesc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24383213
> 
> 
> I already have the blu ray.  I either need to get a different blu ray player or get the dvd.
> 
> 
> maybe an obvious question, is there any reason that a DVD pixel flipper would be any less adequate than the blu ray for the purposes of getting rid of IR on my plasma?



Probably not, but one thing that comes to mind is the individual pixels. The Bluray is going to exercise each pixel on the screen individually, because it was designed to be used with the current HD standard of 1920 x 1080. I'm not really sure what happens if the DVD was only designed for 480. Is it a Java program that will adapt and exercise each pixel individually? Is it a 480 SD video that will be upconverted to 1080?


Regardless, even if there are adjacent pixels that are being exercised in the same way and not individually, my guess is that it would still work just fine for reducing IR. I have used the pixel flipper, slides, and the screen wiper with my plasma. They all help, so it's worth giving whatever you have a shot.


----------



## somelogin

I'm assuming nobody answered me still. I dumbly reset a kuro due to suggestions here, which made it where it INSTANTLY gets burn in and I am trying to at least figure out how to get some of the burn in to go away, even though it's going to keep burning more in, anyway. Also, I wonder if it was a mistake to not use the tv for weeks no. I wonder if you need to try to get burn in out quickly rather than resting it, but nobody would answer me.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MIAaron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24386050
> 
> 
> To those that have older and newer plasmas, has IR gotten worse in recent years?
> 
> 
> Currently we have an old Panasonic plasma from 2006, the 42px60u. To put it bluntly, it gets abused. Static images and game huds for hours a day....on a daily basis...for years. Given the way we treat our old plasma, I firmly believed burn-in/IR had been remedied long ago. But after reading about so many people having IR issues, I'm cautious. Has it really gotten so bad that you have to run slides and other routines just to keep a nice PQ?
> 
> 
> Thank you for any advice.



I would like some input on this as well. Anyone want to loan me 1200 bucks so I can recert with ISF in a couple weeks?










Like I said before, in 06 they said burn in was gone and IR was dealt with by a simple full screen high IRE greyscale for a couple nights. Also use the same window to 'season' the screen. (their word, not mine)


I was supposed to call Joel Silver awhile ago regarding my concerns with BB turning the ISF cert and name into garbage for people that buy on the high side of the low end and the middle of the pack displays and projectors. Really is a shame considering all the TV's that have CMS systems these days. A TV on the cheap side and a calibration can produce a better picture for less money than buying a more expensive TV and not calibrating it.


Anyway, I'll try to get in touch with some industry contacts and ask the question.


As far as slides or break in, the general consensus is they aren't needed. some want to run slides exactly as Dnice and follow his calibration settings, but as far as I'm concerned a calibration can't be taken from one set to another. Panel could be slightly different, software, backlight on non DV sets, viewing conditions that change optimum brightness/contrast and color and hue. Sure, you might get close to an optimum calibration, but for me it's not worth running specific slides for however long is needed to make the copied settings close. Plus you have to be dealing with the same exact TV.


All that is really needed is to be careful what you watch for the first couple hundred hours. Stay away from letterbox content or zoom it to fill the screen, any harsh logos and you'll probably want too turn down the contrast a bit more than usual, turn it down lower if you play any games and definitely don't go on a game binge. Personally however, I'd run slides or greyscales when you're not watching TV. It's not necessary, but it will put time on the panel more quickly than just watching TV, and you get to enjoy your set from the get go instead of waiting for slides to stabilize the set.


So watch what you want, and if you want to do a home or professional calibration as soon as possible then run slides and greyscales when it's not in use. While greyscale can affect the picture noticeably if it's bad, contrast, brightness, colour and hue are really the most important adjustments. The movie mode or one of the warm color settings will usually get you close to a good greyscale and gamma. Then you can use a test disc to set brightness and contrast, if you have a blue only mode then it's easy to set color with a smpte color bar pattern. The ISF / monster disc is kind of a joke if you have knowledge of calibration because it could lead a 4 year old through a simple calibration with its extremely basic explanations, but it is cheaper than dirt and gives you the patterns you need to set everything that doesn't need a meter. It's especially good for setting color and hue because you don't need a filter, and you may get better results than the blue only option because you are changing settings based on a real scene with a few cute girls that have varying makeup on. 2 on the outside that are either completely blown out or look like a ghost, with the one in the middle made up to be normal so you adjust the picture to get that girl looking life like. My meter is no longer useful, so I use this disc all the time setting up family and friends sets.


Did I mention I need donations to recert?







not going to buy any equipment until that is taken care of.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vantagesc*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24386203
> 
> 
> Probably not, but one thing that comes to mind is the individual pixels. The Bluray is going to exercise each pixel on the screen individually, because it was designed to be used with the current HD standard of 1920 x 1080. I'm not really sure what happens if the DVD was only designed for 480. Is it a Java program that will adapt and exercise each pixel individually? Is it a 480 SD video that will be upconverted to 1080?
> 
> 
> Regardless, even if there are adjacent pixels that are being exercised in the same way and not individually, my guess is that it would still work just fine for reducing IR. I have used the pixel flipper, slides, and the screen wiper with my plasma. They all help, so it's worth giving whatever you have a shot.



This is interesting. Anyone have both versions and a magnifying glass to look at the pixels? My thought I'd a long as it fills the screen it shouldn't make a difference. flipping pixels on and off is flipping pixels regardless of whether or not the signal is targeting individual pixels. Just look at it like say....... a solid blue pattern that is 80% size. The source signal is not driving all the pixels, but it is driving a solid (should say uniform) pattern. Because it is uniform, when you zoom it to fill the screen the blue cell in each cell group that makes up a pixel will be driven (is the cell group making up a pixel correct? I know the basic principles regarding how a plasma screen works, but it's been a very long time since I've seen anything technical about how a panel is made up of so I just want to make sure I'm using the correct terminology.) A pixel flipper is not constant like a solid pattern, but the source signal and pattern are uniform. So zooming and stretching or whatever is just going to extend that uniform signal across all the pixels. (the uniform signal is the important part, if it wasn't uniform then the zooming or stretching would shift stuff like you see when filling the screen with letterbox or 4:3 content).


Also, is the shocking of pixels by flipping the best way to clear IR? Like I said before, the standard used to be just putting up a solid pattern. Has ramping ever been investigated or tried?


Chris, would it be hard to make a version of your flipper that ramps instead of flips? Possibly ramp from 0-100-0 IRE greyscale? Do the same but instead ramp each color separately? Ramp to 100 then drop instantly to 0? Do the opposite and instantly go from 0 to 100 then ramp back down to 0?


Just thinking out loud here. Don't know if this approach would work better, worse, or about the same as the flipper. About impossible for us consumers to test scientifically unless someone wants to keep putting the same IR on their set and see if any of the ramping scenarios (as well as different ramp speeds) are more effective, efficient, painkillers better on stubborn IR?


If it can be coded maybe some would test it out on stubborn IR, or someone coming in looking for help with the common IR issues could give it a shot.


----------



## MIAaron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MIAaron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24386050
> 
> 
> To those that have older and newer plasmas, has IR gotten worse in recent years?
> 
> 
> Currently we have an old Panasonic plasma from 2006, the 42px60u. To put it bluntly, it gets abused. Static images and game huds for hours a day....on a daily basis...for years. Given the way we treat our old plasma, I firmly believed burn-in/IR had been remedied long ago. But after reading about so many people having IR issues, I'm cautious. Has it really gotten so bad that you have to run slides and other routines just to keep a nice PQ?
> 
> 
> Thank you for any advice.



I forgot to mention in that post that we are looking into buying a new TV. I know our current TV doesn't have issues with IR, I'm worried about buying a new plasma and destroying it.


Thanks for the responses and sorry for any confusion.


Thanks


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MIAaron*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24386050
> 
> 
> To those that have older and newer plasmas, has IR gotten worse in recent years?
> 
> 
> Currently we have an old Panasonic plasma from 2006, the 42px60u. To put it bluntly, it gets abused. Static images and game huds for hours a day....on a daily basis...for years. Given the way we treat our old plasma, I firmly believed burn-in/IR had been remedied long ago. But after reading about so many people having IR issues, I'm cautious. Has it really gotten so bad that you have to run slides and other routines just to keep a nice PQ?
> 
> 
> Thank you for any advice.



It seems some panels are more IR prone than others. It you take it easy the first few hundred hours you will likely be ok. IMO, a lot of the IR complained about on this forum is likely only visible when checking via a select few colored slides. In fact this is the only time I notice an IR on my panel. You can just enjoy your new panel and not be an OCD freak like me.


----------



## Tom Riddle

I believe it has gotten better. Just the difference in those who look for it and those who don't. I watch mine just like I do my LED/LCD. I check it every once in a while for IR and nothing is ever there. Now if I checked it every day, right after I watched something with static images, sure it would be there, but it remedies itself quickly.


----------



## bull3964




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24390424
> 
> 
> I believe it has gotten better. Just the difference in those who look for it and those who don't. I watch mine just like I do my LED/LCD. I check it every once in a while for IR and nothing is ever there. Now if I checked it every day, right after I watched something with static images, sure it would be there, but it remedies itself quickly.



I can't really say I agree. I'm more inclined to think at this point that it's just another manufacturing variance. Some are more susceptible than others period.


When I would get IR, i wasn't LOOKING for it. It was there, plain as day. It also wasn't something that went away quickly, it took me a month and a half to undo the effects of watching an hour's worth of programming a night on a single channel for two weeks.


----------



## Tom Riddle

I agree there is a variance amongst manufacturers, but IR has gotten better over the years. The fact is, most everyone's IR goes away, it just takes some time. It's something that is inherent to Plasma tecnhology, but isn't much of a true concern. I have a VT30, a set that many have claimed to have horrible IR - I don't see it. I can watch sports all day and any IR is gone the next. This wasn't true when the panel was newer, but now that it is seasoned, it doesn't concern me in the slightest. My screen uniformity is still perfect too. I wouldn't buy a plasma for years because I was scared of IR, but I'm glad I finally put that concern aside and bought one, because the only thing that can beat it is OLED.


----------



## bull3964

I'm not talking between manufacturers, I'm talking individual panel to individual panel. Just like some LCD panels are better for clouding or banding off the same manufacturing line, some plasma panels are better for IR than others.


On my ST50, I wasn't able to watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report for a full week (along with other content mixed in) without the translucent Comedy Central logo being plainly visible on actual content for the remainder of the weekend. That's less than 4 hours of watch time over the course of the week which could have as much as 30-40 hours total watch time. I had to basically abandon watching anything that had a non-translucent logo as it would take weeks to disappear after a few hours of watching.


Also, according to Panasonic, _that level of static content (network bug) can be considered borderline abuse_ as they give a general 10% rule on static items. But it's just normal viewing.


So, it's highly individual. Some people get better TVs than others, luck of the draw.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Sure, ther are some variances depending on build date. However, the actual variance amongst them will be pretty thin, barring some outright lemons that fall in the bunch. I don't consider IR that can't be seen under normal viewing parameters to be a problem. Most posts that deal with IR - not saying yours is - are about IR found under abnormal viewing conditions, e.g. running slides or extremely close distances. Sure you can see it, and yes it may take weeks to remove, but technically it has no adverse effect on your viewing. I had several bouts of stubborn IR when my panel was new, including the text Menu emblazoned in the left top of the screen that took months to remove, but it all disappeared. My main point is, how much of a true concern is it if it goes away? In my opinion, it isn't.


----------



## eric3316

Something I have been preaching lately. If your TV has a pixel orbiter, turn it on because it works! Even though it only moves a few pixels it is the edges that usually cause the IR and as long as the edge moves even 1 pixel over, the last spot has time to clear up before it returns to that spot again. If you pixel orbiter says auto, it is technically off. Makes sure it says on!


----------



## bull3964




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24391350
> 
> 
> Sure, ther are some variances depending on build date. However, the actual variance amongst them will be pretty thin, barring some outright lemons that fall in the bunch. I don't consider IR that can't be seen under normal viewing parameters to be a problem. Most posts that deal with IR - not saying yours is - are about IR found under abnormal viewing conditions, e.g. running slides or extremely close distances. Sure you can see it, and yes it may take weeks to remove, but technically it has no adverse effect on your viewing. I had several bouts of stubborn IR when my panel was new, including the text Menu emblazoned in the left top of the screen that took months to remove, but it all disappeared. My main point is, how much of a true concern is it if it goes away? In my opinion, it isn't.



The issue is, what point does it become cumulative and a long term problem?


Watching an hour's worth of Adult Swim every night for two weeks was enough to keep the network bug in the corner of the screen for a month and a half because it's solid white. That's after avoiding that logo altogether AND running the pixel flipper every night AND the TV was already over a year old at that point.


If IR resulting from normal viewing doesn't go away within a day of a normal viewing cycle, I think it *is* a long term problem. It's one thing if you had a marathon gaming session one day and had a HUD up on the screen for 8 hours or if you fell asleep with a news ticker on. Those are abnormal circumstances which can be avoided until the TV corrects itself and they don't happen too often. However, if watching an hour's or so of programming on a single channel a night is enough to make the network bug after image persist until the next time you watch that channel, that's troublesome because you never gain any headway in making it go away. I got to the point where I was trying changing between overscan and non-overscan screen fits every other day to move the logo to a completely different place. All that managed to do is give me two IR spots.


In a perfect world where channels didn't use opaque or near opaque network logos, I wouldn't any any problem with it. I wish every network used bugs as unobtrusive as Fox that are very translucent and don't lead to any sort of IR no matter how long you watch. All I know is my TV was forcing me to change my viewing habits which weren't exactly abnormal to start with. It is a legitimate concern and not born entirely out of people examining their screens with microscopes while running slides. The fact that people have such disparate experiences with it really does lead me to believe that IR varies wildly from individual TV to individual TV.


----------



## Tom Riddle

In the case you describe, yes IR is a problem, but I disagree that panels vary wildly. There are variances amongst panels, but most are due to different build dates, and the variance will be in an acceptable limit. Now, there are some lemons out there that do have a wild variance, but one can't assume this is the norm amongst all panels. The only way to truly prove or disprove either of our opinions would be to run tests, but since that isn't going to happen, I say we agree to disagree. I hope your IR issues calm down so you can enjoy your panel.


----------



## bull3964

My ST50 is currently sitting in my basement unused. It developed the infamous yellow blob problem after 20 months so I had to replace it. I'd be lying if I said my experience with IR didn't heavily influence my choice of replacement though.


----------



## gooptroop


So I just bought the last st60 (floor model) from sears. the entire screen is great, but there is noticable image ghosting of a rectangle on the lower third of the tv. I've run the screen wipe for 20 or so minutes and it really hasnt changed.

 

now its very faint and definitely not a severe case of burn in but would this be something that will go away with time? the tv already has 3500 hours on it.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gooptroop*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24394903
> 
> 
> So I just bought the last st60 (floor model) from sears. the entire screen is great, but there is noticable image ghosting of a rectangle on the lower third of the tv. I've run the screen wipe for 20 or so minutes and it really hasnt changed.
> 
> 
> now its very faint and definitely not a severe case of burn in but would this be something that will go away with time? the tv already has 3500 hours on it.



It should go away with some time. Floor models typically have some retention, usually worse than what you described.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24394870
> 
> 
> My ST50 is currently sitting in my basement unused. It developed the infamous yellow blob problem after 20 months so I had to replace it. I'd be lying if I said my experience with IR didn't heavily influence my choice of replacement though.



Sorry to hear that. What did you replace it with?


----------



## bull3964




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Riddle*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24395262
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear that. What did you replace it with?



Sony KDL-55W900A


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24395276
> 
> 
> Sony KDL-55W900A



Good set. I like my LED/LCD, Samsung UN55C800, but I love my 65VT30.


----------



## mustafa811

well i bought Samsung f5000 51 inch 3 months ago and i have been very cautious for like 500 hours usage just to avoid ir .. i always use the Sammy screen saver and use windows magnifier in full screen to avoid static images .. also did not watch HDTV channels to avoid ir from channels logo .. after the break in i decided to watch a movie on HDTV channel and the logo just burnt in following 2 hour movie .. i used the screen saver and it took about 15 hours to fix 95 % of the burn in spite of all pixel shift options enabled .. also after playing shadow fall on ps4 for couple of hours the interface burnt in in spite of playing multiplayer only matches with 2 minutes interval in between 10 minutes matches


also when watching Blu-ray the black borders blackness starts to be greyish as minutes pass


avoid plasma if you use games or hdtv

my friends owns LG and it is much worse


plasma colors is great and natural .. excellent blacks but only in not lit places .. fast response .. but ir is a deal breaker for me .. also game details or luminosity is less than LCD or led and it is apparent


great for movies only and sports but with no logos ??????


----------



## bull3964

If Samsung would have made a 55 inch F8500, I might have gone that route. I replaced it mid Jan so I probably could have found a closeout 55VT60, but I wasn't convinced that Panasonic fully sorted out the issue that led to my blobs since the cause is overheating and loud fan noise is a common complaint of the 60 series.


If I can be completely honest, the Sony is just a better TV all around than my ST50. Motion processing especially is better since the ST50 lacked the ability to do native 24fps. Input lag is also practically nonexistent. Of course the MSRP was nearly twice what I paid for my ST50, but current sales made it about the same.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *somelogin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24395164
> 
> 
> No answers, still, I see. Would have thought people posting in a burn in thread would have answers to simple questions.



I never saw your original post, but did look at the reset thread. Honestly I don't think anyone here can help you out. If you want to treat it like any other plasma then it's pixel flipper, or probably a greyscale screen due to the vintage of the set. Will this reduce the IR? Possibly, but it could also do more harm because your set is obviously not set correctly. I would ask about this in the reset thread. There is really no point in trying to deal with IR until your set is adjusted properly (hopefully this is possible). From what I have taken away from the reset thread voltages are likely way if from where they need to be, with the possibility of something else being wrong like one of the boards. If you leave it as is then you will constantly get IR and then try to get rid of it and the panel probably won't be long on life.


As far as resting or attempting to get rid of IR immediately, I can't answer that one.


Honestly, I can't believe the amount of people performing this procedure, as it doesn't look like anyone is certified in pioneer plasma repairs. The operation being performed (if it is being performed correctly) was designed for replacing a panel. Because it is all based on resetting timers/counters etc, it looks like pioneer got their panel age compensation algorithms wrong, which really isn't surprising because I'm sure they didn't build a prototypes and go through accelerated aging tests to dial in the algorithm. Likely just based on theory and a bit of testing. But again, I only read a few posts from one person that referenced the service manual,and even then it seems that what happens inside the TV during a panel replacement reset is not fully known.


So my advice: start grilling people in that reset thread regarding your problem, as well as finding and talking to a repair tech that was/is qualified on your set and explain what you did and why, and see if they have any advice or if it's possible to 'fix' and how much it would run you.


Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck.


Steve


----------



## Iceberg86300

Tom,


are you looking for service menu settings like voltages? Because if the TV was reset then stuff needs to be tweaked in the SM.


Sorry you were banned from that thread. can you get a screenshot of the service menu screen that shows panel time? Because they figured out that one of the counters will show when the TV was last reset. Then PM them with it. With few exceptions they are just winging it, and I see no real experts so they very well may not have a clue how to fix your problem.


Big disclaimer and all, but it still sucks royally because you were following the instructions of someone that alluded to confidence in what they were doing. I hate to say it but you are the one that ultimately decided you do the reset. On the other hand, you shouldn't be ignored because you have a problem they have no clue about. Very least they could just say they don't know.


Thinking about it more, did the reset accomplish the goal of getting rid of the color problems?? If so post up your settings as Tom asked. You might be able to adjust user menu settings to at least lessen the problem.


I'd still try to find a TV tech with experience on your set. Might be able to adjust stuff for you, or possibly even flash the TV back to 'new' and then adjust stuff to compensate for a horrible 'new' panel like what would have been done at the factory. (you're panel would probably be rejected at the factory if it was 'new' but a tech may be able to get things going)


So give us some settings and bust out the phone book or the TV manual to try to find a tech.


----------



## nxl0647


It's been a week of general tv watching and about 1 hour of the pixel flipper and at least a few hours of the scrolling bars, but the IR is still there.  Mostly it's obvious against light backgrounds, and sometimes i don't see it at all.  I can still usually make out the "Live" part, but the "CNN" has become a lot harder to read.

 

I'm thinking I'll just get a used ps3 for around $150.  Seems easier than tracking down either a really old blu ray or a really expensive newer blu ray just to avoid the auto shutdown.  

 

After this happens and I run the pixel flipper for a few nights, I'll come back to say whether it faded.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Aaaand the other side comes to light. post your settings anyway. And take my advice regarding the TV tech.


wxman, I still really don't like that reset thread. I understand that it is up to the owner to decide what to do, and it is basically bringing back a TV from the scrap heap, but there really should be a disclaimer regarding the knowledge of the guys giving advice. Service manuals made available, how much is actually known regarding all the commands, etc. A disclaimer followed up with this will work nearly all the time, just don't try it if you have board X, really isn't acceptable, especially when I go to the middle of the thread and see that it was closed because problems with no solutions were popping up.


Better yet, in addition to all that info, the thread should go in a closed tech forum that needs an application or request to get into. That way you can get the people like me and others in on the action to help sort things out. (I'm ISF certified, mechanical engineer with Mechatronics/embedded system knowledge) This way you are dealing with people that can understand the technical aspects, as well as being able to respond or ask questions in technical fashion. Minimize the hand holding and make the thread(s) public when the sufficient amount of understanding is gained.


I truly understand it's the owners decision, but feel having a thread like that public from the beginning is rather unethical because anyone can stumble onto it. 20 pages of newb questions, back and forth theory, problems and solutions, etc, should really be cataloged and reduced for full public access with an accompanying support thread.


I don't know, maybe that is too much to ask of an internet forum. I'm torn!!! LOL


----------



## Iceberg86300

Can you get greyscale slides? It's worth a shot. I've got the old avia disc I can upload if needed. 4:3 format DVD but you could run one of the greyscale slides on a loop.


Haven't heard any opinions on using a ramp method instead of the flipper.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24396088
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> are you looking for service menu settings like voltages? Because if the TV was reset then stuff needs to be tweaked in the SM.
> 
> 
> Sorry you were banned from that thread. can you get a screenshot of the service menu screen that shows panel time? Because they figured out that one of the counters will show when the TV was last reset. Then PM them with it. With few exceptions they are just winging it, and I see no real experts so they very well may not have a clue how to fix your problem.
> 
> 
> Big disclaimer and all, but it still sucks royally because you were following the instructions of someone that alluded to confidence in what they were doing. I hate to say it but you are the one that ultimately decided you do the reset. On the other hand, you shouldn't be ignored because you have a problem they have no clue about. Very least they could just say they don't know.
> 
> 
> Thinking about it more, did the reset accomplish the goal of getting rid of the color problems?? If so post up your settings as Tom asked. You might be able to adjust user menu settings to at least lessen the problem.
> 
> 
> I'd still try to find a TV tech with experience on your set. Might be able to adjust stuff for you, or possibly even flash the TV back to 'new' and then adjust stuff to compensate for a horrible 'new' panel like what would have been done at the factory. (you're panel would probably be rejected at the factory if it was 'new' but a tech may be able to get things going)
> 
> 
> So give us some settings and bust out the phone book or the TV manual to try to find a tech.



I'm just looking for his picture settings to see if they give an indication of his problem.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eric3316*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24393409
> 
> 
> Something I have been preaching lately. If your TV has a pixel orbiter, turn it on because it works! !



Good reminder. Today I learned that the pixel orbiter on my Samsung is disabled when the TV is in screen fit (aka scan) mode. I was watching a show with a static logo so I decided to check to make sure my orbiter was on. It was off, and when I tried to turn it on it said it was unavailable. After some research I learned that it was because I was in screen fit. Once I turned it to 16:9 mode the orbiter switched on.


I've always kept my TV on screen fit mode, unless watching 4:3 when I switch to wide fit. I'm guessing (and hoping) that if I start using 16:9 with my PS3 it will be less susceptible to IR since the orbiter will be on.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RedZeppelin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24426479
> 
> 
> Good reminder. Today I learned that the pixel orbiter on my Samsung is disabled when the TV is in screen fit (aka scan) mode. I was watching a show with a static logo so I decided to check to make sure my orbiter was on. It was off, and when I tried to turn it on it said it was unavailable. After some research I learned that it was because I was in screen fit. Once I turned it to 16:9 mode the orbiter switched on.
> 
> 
> I've always kept my TV on screen fit mode, unless watching 4:3 when I switch to wide fit. I'm guessing (and hoping) that if I start using 16:9 with my PS3 it will be less susceptible to IR since the orbiter will be on.



Something I hate about Samsung. Our LCD has options greyed out, and no information as to why. Just getting their 2 stupid test patterns active took forever messing with setting after setting trying to find out which one was causing the problem. Turned out to be one of the smooth motion settings, and only one of the options allowed the patterns to be active.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24426750
> 
> 
> Something I hate about Samsung. Our LCD has options greyed out, and no information as to why. Just getting their 2 stupid test patterns active took forever messing with setting after setting trying to find out which one was causing the problem. Turned out to be one of the smooth motion settings, and only one of the options allowed the patterns to be active.



It makes sense to gray out the pixel orbiter when set to Screen Fit though, since ideally it's displaying a 1:1 image onto the screen. If the orbiter was enabled, part of the picture would be getting cut out _while_ the other end of the screen would get a row/column of black pixels. Or two, or three, or four...


In 16:9, there is overscan of the image that flows over as it works its orbit, so there isn't any black being shown (unless the image is already black there in the first place, like letterbox or pillarbox content).


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muffinmcfluffin*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24427901
> 
> 
> It makes sense to gray out the pixel orbiter when set to Screen Fit though, since ideally it's displaying a 1:1 image onto the screen. If the orbiter was enabled, part of the picture would be getting cut out _while_ the other end of the screen would get a row/column of black pixels. Or two, or three, or four...
> 
> 
> In 16:9, there is overscan of the image that flows over as it works its orbit, so there isn't any black being shown (unless the image is already black there in the first place, like letterbox or pillarbox content).



Oh, I have zero problem with things being greyed out. The thing I absolutely hate is that there is no documentation as to what where and why. Like deep color, I can't figure out how to make that option available. Is it only on one input with movie preset? Then the options have a color space setting. Extended and native I think. No clue what that actually does. I can guess, but that's about it because the used no documentation. There are some others too, poke around and you can find options enabled or disabled with no apparent reason. Just bugs me that they don't list all the options in a paper or online table that describes what they do and cross reference options that they disabled or options that will disable them.


Somebody programmed an if then statement, do it shouldn't be that hard to document it.


----------



## Chris NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5070#post_24388061
> 
> 
> Chris, would it be hard to make a version of your flipper that ramps instead of flips? Possibly ramp from 0-100-0 IRE greyscale? Do the same but instead ramp each color separately? Ramp to 100 then drop instantly to 0? Do the opposite and instantly go from 0 to 100 then ramp back down to 0?



That would be dead simple. If it's something people want I can write it up pretty easily.


I am not 100% sure of what the optimal method of removing pixels is. Would evenly wearing the display with patterns do it? I think people like random static because it simulates the randomness of playing a film. Not sure if any method is better than any other but if you guys want to see anything in particular I would be happy to code it up.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris NYC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24429554
> 
> 
> That would be dead simple. If it's something people want I can write it up pretty easily.
> 
> 
> I am not 100% sure of what the optimal method of removing pixels is. Would evenly wearing the display with patterns do it? I think people like random static because it simulates the randomness of playing a film. Not sure if any method is better than any other but if you guys want to see anything in particular I would be happy to code it up.



To trek you the truth I have no idea either. Back in 06 it was only a static greyscale, and that worked very well. Pixel flipper didn't exist then, so I don't know if that would have worked better or not. Maybe somebody has a lightly used model from that era or a new one staged away somewhere that could try both.


I'd like to think that manufacturers have included the best option on their TV's, but the tech has changed and I don't think they have been able to keep up with what works best. If pioneer was making the same exact Kuro models today as they did in the beginning if buy one in heartbeat and use the ISF protocol of the time to 'season'the display for a couple hundred hours, and if IR showed up just run the greyscale. That is pretty much a proven method for sets of that era.


I know current 'cheap' plasmas of today perform as well or better than the crazy expensive Kuro models, but 3D is a worthless gimmick, deep color is nice but you only get that on high quality transfers or productions, 4K is amazing tech but how many movies out there have it besides demos, and the expanded color space can be taken care of with a lumagen or radiance box (which is something I think any serious videophile should consider anyway, buy a $1k TV and a $1.5k box and throw some calibration in there which in my eyes should be cheaper because of autocal or get you more inputs calibrated for the same price as one input without autocal (if I was still calibrating today that is the model I would use because you just set the TV to a default or lower the contrast do the box is putting out a higher signal and the TV doesn't need to amplify it as much and let the external scaler / CMS do the rest) so for around $2.5k you get allot better scaling and color than if you plunked down $2.5k on just the TV).


Anyway, I think manufacturers have taken plasma too far too fast to increase picture quality, and we are seeing the repercussions in IR that shows up so quickly and takes far too long to get rid of. I wonder how hard it would be to escalate a tech support call to the highest level and possibly get some info on the technology being used or get some white papers.


and I don't even have a plasma lol. I just like the technology, but don't have the environment for it. Otherwise I'd take you up on your coding and try some different schemes because I'm sure I'd be dealing with IR that could be repeated easily.


----------



## gus738

that video processor lumagen is nice and i agree that 3d is gimmick but thats all i agree , i have a 2007 panasonic px75u which had bad ir at first month. then i got the legendary pioneer kuro pioneer elite (2008) pro-111 but i elected to get elite version ( better processor isf modes etc) and i never saw IR on that tv. and 2 weeks a go i got 60 pn 5350 (5300) and being brand new i can tell you its handles ir alot better then my 2007 panasonic. only one time i saw ir on my new sammy was when my niece put some 4:3 content on youtube via laptop to 5300.


what im trying to say that not all tvs will be of that of the kuro line up much less the eilte line up iceburg


> Quote:
> I know current 'cheap' plasmas of today perform as well or better than the crazy expensive Kuro models,


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24430502
> 
> 
> that video processor lumagen is nice and i agree that 3d is gimmick but thats all i agree , i have a 2007 panasonic px75u which had bad ir at first month. then i got the legendary pioneer kuro pioneer elite (2008) pro-111 but i elected to get elite version ( better processor isf modes etc) and i never saw IR on that tv. and 2 weeks a go i got 60 pn 5350 (5300) and being brand new i can tell you its handles ir alot better then my 2007 panasonic. only one time i saw ir on my new sammy was when my niece put some 4:3 content on youtube via laptop to 5300.
> 
> 
> what im trying to say that not all tvs will be of that of the kuro line up much less the eilte line up iceburg



Oh, should have added more. I was just comparing the elites picture to the picture of today's plasmas. Calibrate a cheap plasma today, and you'll get close or surpass the picture of the elites. But you were buying a lot more than a good picture when you bought an elite. It's just that I think the only 06-09 plasma that I would buy today over a current model would be one of the elites. I don't know if everything has gone to shut today because of China or RoHS, or what. Maybe it was just Panasonic pushing the edge too far for a great picture. They seem to be heavily favored over other brands, now that they are discontinued you could probably make a profit selling a lightly used one. But you had problems in 07 with a Panasonic so maybe they have just been tolerated a as long as a good picture was available. Who made the panels for pioneer? Or who shared them? I remember something to that effect, but it might have been something different, can't remember.


Maybe it was good for Panasonic to get out, seems like they have had the most trouble. But if they fixed whatever was going on they probably could have made a decent profit while scaling them down and scaling oled tech up.


Pretty excited to see what the next few years will bring. Can't wait to be able to walk by TV's and not hang my head because they are all being sold as led TV's, their LCD people!!


----------



## gus738

In terms of PQ impressions only the lg oled seems improved to the elite in terms of pq.


most plasma today focus on being brighter


Most brands are not about being properly calibrated , i have not even done a professional calibration , if all goes well come june i'll have D-nice calibrate it.



oled has a major flaw:


its native speed 300 lines . i mean for god sake couldnt it be at least 600 lines native ? but no its 300


----------



## trimalchio


Had this in a separate post before I saw this thread.

 

Hi all, I recently scooped up a floor model Panasonic ZT60 from a Best Buy 200 miles away, site unseen. They claimed it had no IR, but sure enough it does: other than a ~1 inch band across the top and bottom of the screen, the entire display has a pinkish tint. I wouldn't call the color difference severe but it's noticeable and of course bugging me now that I've seen it. The set has 3,075 hours on it currently and is otherwise pristine. There are no images apparent in the IR, its just a solid block of pink tint covering most of the screen.

 

I'm wondering if this might fade over time? Or if there is possibly a calibration fix, since it's distributed uniformly (looks like they were displaying some wide screen format for too long). Or anything else I can do other than just run screen wipe and full screen content as much as possible?

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.


----------



## gus738

im always against floor models reason for this is because i first was a salesman for some years and i know how abbusive some employee and customers are .


so my say is no dont get it , instead seattle on a samsung plasma.


would that ir or that problem you found would it bother you if it *NEVE*R went away?


----------



## trimalchio


Thanks for the response. I looked at the F8500 but the input lag is a show stopper for me.

 

I called Best Buy today and they offered an additional discount on the unit, bringing the cost down to $2475 for a P65ZT60. Yeah itll bother me if the IR doesnt go away but it's not worth another $3.5k to me. So my choice is live with this IR or return it and hope a decent used one comes up on Amazon. I snagged a P65VT60 the other day for ~2400 from Amazon warehouse deals, but CEVA broke the damn thing shipping it to me.

 

I guess I'm just going to run this thing 24/7 until the end of my 15-day return window and make a decision then. It's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that this IR isn't permanent right? Is screen wipe the fastest way to fix IR like this or should I be using full screen video content or panel prep slides or...?


----------



## Plasma5300

I just purchased a samsung pn51f5300 plasma. Im aware of the break in process. Im about 20 hours in watching full screen 1080p tv shows on netflix. Now....Do i need to use one of the break in dvds or slides to properly break in this set? Or can I continue how im watching without hurting the set. Will the screen age evenly? And my settngs are pretty low. Im in standard mode, 1-20 cell light im on 10, 0-100 contrast im on 60. 0-100 brightness im on 45, dymamic contrast off. Etc


Cell light 10

Contrast 60

Brightness 45

Sharpness 50

Color 50

Dynamic contrast off

Black tone off

Color tone standard


Im extremely new to this technology and I would appreciate any info anyone can give me. Thanks.


----------



## RedZeppelin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Plasma5300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24441292
> 
> 
> I just purchased a samsung pn51f5300 plasma. Im aware of the break in process. Im about 20 hours in watching full screen 1080p tv shows on netflix. Now....Do i need to use one of the break in dvds or slides to properly break in this set? Or can I continue how im watching without hurting the set. .



The only reason you would want to use the break-in slides is if you want to rush the cell aging process. Watching full screen content accomplishes the same thing, so it's your choice. I used the slides so I could get to 100 hours faster and start watching letterbox content with relative peace of mind.


Congrats on your Samsung plasma purchase, and welcome to the AVS forums.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trimalchio*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24441040
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. I looked at the F8500 but the input lag is a show stopper for me.
> 
> 
> I called Best Buy today and they offered an additional discount on the unit, bringing the cost down to $2475 for a P65ZT60. Yeah itll bother me if the IR doesnt go away but it's not worth another $3.5k to me. So my choice is live with this IR or return it and hope a decent used one comes up on Amazon. I snagged a P65VT60 the other day for ~2400 from Amazon warehouse deals, but CEVA broke the damn thing shipping it to me.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just going to run this thing 24/7 until the end of my 15-day return window and make a decision then. It's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that this IR isn't permanent right? Is screen wipe the fastest way to fix IR like this or should I be using full screen video content or panel prep slides or...?


Some have had luck with the screen wipe, personally it does nothing on my panel except expose IR. Try the Disney WoW pixel flipper for a couple days. You can use it whenever you are not using the panel. It may take a couple of days of consistent use depending on the severity of your IR.


----------



## Cloggerdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trimalchio*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24441040
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. I looked at the F8500 but the input lag is a show stopper for me.
> 
> 
> I called Best Buy today and they offered an additional discount on the unit, bringing the cost down to $2475 for a P65ZT60. Yeah itll bother me if the IR doesnt go away but it's not worth another $3.5k to me. So my choice is live with this IR or return it and hope a decent used one comes up on Amazon. I snagged a P65VT60 the other day for ~2400 from Amazon warehouse deals, but CEVA broke the damn thing shipping it to me.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just going to run this thing 24/7 until the end of my 15-day return window and make a decision then. It's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that this IR isn't permanent right? Is screen wipe the fastest way to fix IR like this or should I be using full screen video content or panel prep slides or...?



I'm in basically the same exact boat as you. I purchased a 65VT60 from hhgregg this weekend for $2,200 and it has fairly significant IR from where they were always watching ESPN. I've ran the Screen Wipe for 12+ hours now and, while I see some improvement, it's definitely still quite noticeable.


I'm going to try out the Disney WoW disc suggestion, but hopefully I won't have to end up returning this one....


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cloggerdude*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24443063
> 
> 
> I'm in basically the same exact boat as you. I purchased a 65VT60 from hhgregg this weekend for $2,200 and it has fairly significant IR from where they were always watching ESPN. I've ran the Screen Wipe for 12+ hours now and, while I see some improvement, it's definitely still quite noticeable.
> 
> 
> I'm going to try out the Disney WoW disc suggestion, but hopefully I won't have to end up returning this one....



Same scenario here but the IR is minor and fading due to the WOW disc, but I paid alot less than that for my 65"







Try the WOW disc it made a difference on my set


----------



## Cloggerdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24443089
> 
> 
> Same scenario here but the IR is minor and fading due to the WOW disc, but I paid alot less than that for my 65"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try the WOW disc it made a difference on my set



A lot less, eh? They did throw in a 3 year warranty, but I kinda felt like I wasn't getting an AMAZING deal at the time. Mind saying how much you paid and where?


----------



## gossamer88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clarkkent06*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5040#post_24383201
> 
> 
> 
> The bluray dropped down to $18.50 last week, I bought it then.  Maybe it'll drop to that price again?
> 
> http://camelcamelcamel.com/Disney-WOW-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/product/B0045ASBLG



It's currently that price now:

http://www.amazon.com/Disney-WOW-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B0045ASBLG


----------



## trimalchio


Thanks everyone! I just ordered the disney wow bluray from amazon for express delivery tomorrow. Going to run it until the end of my return window and hope. Good luck with your set cloggerdude.


----------



## trimalchio


Are there recommended picture settings for the ZT60 while I'm running screen wipe or the disney wow disc?


----------



## ab2ab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trimalchio*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24441040
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. I looked at the F8500 but the input lag is a show stopper for me.
> 
> 
> I called Best Buy today and they offered an additional discount on the unit, bringing the cost down to $2475 for a P65ZT60. Yeah itll bother me if the IR doesnt go away but it's not worth another $3.5k to me. So my choice is live with this IR or return it and hope a decent used one comes up on Amazon. I snagged a P65VT60 the other day for ~2400 from Amazon warehouse deals, but CEVA broke the damn thing shipping it to me.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just going to run this thing 24/7 until the end of my 15-day return window and make a decision then. It's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that this IR isn't permanent right? Is screen wipe the fastest way to fix IR like this or should I be using full screen video content or panel prep slides or...?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cloggerdude*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24443063
> 
> 
> I'm in basically the same exact boat as you. I purchased a 65VT60 from hhgregg this weekend for $2,200 and it has fairly significant IR from where they were always watching ESPN. I've ran the Screen Wipe for 12+ hours now and, while I see some improvement, it's definitely still quite noticeable.
> 
> 
> I'm going to try out the Disney WoW disc suggestion, but hopefully I won't have to end up returning this one....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24443089
> 
> 
> Same scenario here but the IR is minor and fading due to the WOW disc, but I paid alot less than that for my 65"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try the WOW disc it made a difference on my set



I bought a demo ST60 from Best Buy with the worst Burn-In/IR anyone could have. It was running the dreaded Panasonic demo since March or April of last year (3262 hours when purchased). With my technique here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473440/panasonic-zt60-deals/1440#post_24292951 I was able to remove enough of the mid-screen Panasonic logo that I can not see it 98% of the time while watching normal content. Part of that is because I know where to look. Also, the pinkish "screen rash" the panel had from the demo running in Vivid mode, has cleared significantly. I am very pleased with the results.


By the way, I also noticed that my mixed use of Evangelos slides and pixel flipper was more effective when I shut the TV off for at least an hour after 12-14 hours of use than running the TV for 24 continuous hours. Don't ask me why, it just works. This technique was proven successful on 3 different ST60's and my ZT60. Hope this helps.


Oh, one more thing...use this technique in the *Default Custom Mode* irrespective of 2013 model.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trimalchio*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24443628
> 
> 
> Are there recommended picture settings for the ZT60 while I'm running screen wipe or the disney wow disc?



Usually the same settings that you watch the TV at. some drop the contest a bit.


I hate to tell you guys this, but those with floor models with with over a thousand hours likely are not going to get rid of the IR. In these cases, if the sets have been on the same programming their whole life I would call what you have borderline burn in. Panel had definitely aged unevenly.


The pink ting problem may be salvageable with a calibration, but it's going to flip the problem. letterbox will be good but the color issue will transfer to the black bar area.


Another way would be to invest the image to age the black bar area and then calibrate, but that will take forever.


For the people with logos or tickers, there is still uneven aging, but you may be in a little better shape. You've got a smaller area to deal with so with pixel flipping or a full slide things may start to fade. Maybe totally, maybe not, but you've got a better chance than a letterbox color push.


Check your floor model warranties. Maybe Chris can make a screen with a few pixel areas at 100% and crank some settings to burn some stuff out, maybe you'll get a new panel.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ab2ab*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24444477
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a demo ST60 from Best Buy with the worst Burn-In/IR anyone could have. It was running the dreaded Panasonic demo since March or April of last year (3262 hours when purchased). With my technique here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473440/panasonic-zt60-deals/1440#post_24292951 I was able to remove enough of the mid-screen Panasonic logo that I can not see it 98% of the time while watching normal content. Part of that is because I know where to look. Also, the pinkish "screen rash" the panel had from the demo running in Vivid mode, has cleared significantly. I am very pleased with the results.
> 
> 
> By the way, I also noticed that my mixed use of Evangelos slides and pixel flipper was more effective when I shut the TV off for at least an hour after 12-14 hours of use than running the TV for 24 continuous hours. Don't ask me why, it just works. This technique was proven successful on 3 different ST60's and my ZT60. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Oh, one more thing...use this technique in the *Default Custom Mode* irrespective of 2013 model.



What was your run duration ? Was it continous ?


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24444479
> 
> 
> Usually the same settings that you watch the TV at. some drop the contest a bit.
> 
> 
> I hate to tell you guys this, but those with floor models with with over a thousand hours likely are not going to get rid of the IR. In these cases, if the sets have been on the same programming their whole life I would call what you have borderline burn in. Panel had definitely aged unevenly.
> 
> 
> The pink ting problem may be salvageable with a calibration, but it's going to flip the problem. letterbox will be good but the color issue will transfer to the black bar area.
> 
> 
> Another way would be to invest the image to age the black bar area and then calibrate, but that will take forever.
> 
> 
> For the people with logos or tickers, there is still uneven aging, but you may be in a little better shape. You've got a smaller area to deal with so with pixel flipping or a full slide things may start to fade. Maybe totally, maybe not, but you've got a better chance than a letterbox color push.
> 
> 
> Check your floor model warranties. Maybe Chris can make a screen with a few pixel areas at 100% and crank some settings to burn some stuff out, maybe you'll get a new panel.



My IR continues to fade, I don't think it will vanish completely but less than 60 hours of pixel flipper, screen wipe and slides have made a significant improvement. I think over time with full screen content it will eventually become a non issue.


----------



## AMartin56

Question about the WoW pixel flipper. On mine when it starts up there are huge blocks scrubbing the screen but this quickly changes to a very small area scrubbing away at the screen along the bottom while the rest remains stationary (it no longer rolls like static). Is this normal? It seems like it would be bad for the display, and I wonder if my Bluray player just doesn't get along with this disc.


----------



## chunon

I see the blocks initially then the whole screen turn to static, you can see the indifidual pixels changing color


----------



## ab2ab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24446145
> 
> 
> What was your run duration ? Was it continous ?



It varied. On most days I would run the slides for 9-10 hours straight, then turn the TV off for at least one hour. After an hour of rest time, I would sometimes run pixel flipper until bedtime, then run evangelo's slides until morning. Although I started to see an improvement within the first 70 or so hours, it took roughly 350 hours employing this method to fade a significant amount of the Panasonic logo to the point where I considered the Burn-In/IR a non-issue.


I'll tell you something else too...I did an experiment: I plugged in D-Nice's settings right after purchasing the demo with over 3200 hours on it at the time. The results were horrible...major red push & crushed blacks all over the place. After doing my little Burn-In/IR method for 400 hours, I plugged in the settings again and the PQ was MUCH better!! From that point on, I left his settings in my Custom Mode and watched TV as I normally would.


On a hunch, I decided to pop in my SD Card w/ D-nice's slides and run them for 100 hours (10-11 hours straight with an hour powered off). Not really knowing if anything would be different, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that the PQ had improved even more!! The colors popped, shadow detail slightly improved, but the image depth is what really stood out. I was shocked because I was pleased with what I was seeing and it also put a couple of plasma myths to bed as far as I'm concerned. I even had my friend who'd purchased a 60ST60 Sears demo with 870 hours on it do exactly what I did to remove the IR. She was also successful although her IR was not as significant as mine and in another area of screen. And, without telling her why, I had her to duplicate my little PQ experiment and report back her findings when done. Afterwards, she told me she "loves her new TV and it looks so much better now!!" I, of course, laughed and secretly let out a sigh of relief because I have never recommended a plasma to a non-TV enthusiast. Hell, the ZT60 was my first plasma. Hope this helps out.


----------



## ab2ab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AMartin56*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24446198
> 
> 
> Question about the WoW pixel flipper. On mine when it starts up there are huge blocks scrubbing the screen but this quickly changes to a very small area scrubbing away at the screen along the bottom while the rest remains stationary (it no longer rolls like static). Is this normal? It seems like it would be bad for the display, and I wonder if my Bluray player just doesn't get along with this disc.



It's your Blu ray player. My Samsung did the same thing.


----------



## AMartin56




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ab2ab*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24446929
> 
> 
> It's your Blu ray player. My Samsung did the same thing.



Thanks for the confirmation. Its a Sony S5100 if anyone is keeping track. I'll stick to slides for fighting IR. It's easier to just leave a SD card with slides in the TV anyways. And as far as I know there is no way for the media player to time out so it's probably safer than relying on an external source in any case.


----------



## gossamer88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ab2ab*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24446913
> 
> 
> It varied. On most days I would run the slides for 9-10 hours straight, then turn the TV off for at least one hour. After an hour of rest time, I would sometimes run pixel flipper until bedtime, then run evangelo's slides until morning. Although I started to see an improvement within the first 70 or so hours, it took roughly 350 hours employing this method to fade a significant amount of the Panasonic logo to the point where I considered the Burn-In/IR a non-issue.
> 
> 
> I'll tell you something else too...I did an experiment: I plugged in D-Nice's settings right after purchasing the demo with over 3200 hours on it at the time. The results were horrible...major red push & crushed blacks all over the place. After doing my little Burn-In/IR method for 400 hours, I plugged in the settings again and the PQ was MUCH better!! From that point on, I left his settings in my Custom Mode and watched TV as I normally would.
> 
> 
> On a hunch, I decided to pop in my SD Card w/ D-nice's slides and run them for 100 hours (10-11 hours straight with an hour powered off). Not really knowing if anything would be different, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that the PQ had improved even more!! The colors popped, shadow detail slightly improved, but the image depth is what really stood out. I was shocked because I was pleased with what I was seeing and it also put a couple of plasma myths to bed as far as I'm concerned. I even had my friend who'd purchased a 60ST60 Sears demo with 870 hours on it do exactly what I did to remove the IR. She was also successful although her IR was not as significant as mine and in another area of screen. And, without telling her why, I had her to duplicate my little PQ experiment and report back her findings when done. Afterwards, she told me she "loves her new TV and it looks so much better now!!" I, of course, laughed and secretly let out a sigh of relief because I have never recommended a plasma to a non-TV enthusiast. Hell, the ZT60 was my first plasma. Hope this helps out.



Your posts have been very encouraging. My one month old VT60 has IR from the ID Discovery channel. My wife loves that channel and watched for hours and hours. She feels horrible about it and some of the things I have done have helped. I'm hoping it will go away completely as this TV is getting near impossible to find.


Here's a video I posted on YouTube with the description of the troubleshooting I've done.


----------



## AMartin56

I had the Viera menu in the upper left corner as IR after some lengthy calibration sessions and that item is solid bright white on black. It was never all that noticeable from normal viewing distances but now after some full screen content and slides it's only visible if you are right in front of the TV. Mine is a ST60.


Someone earlier posted that it can take about three times as long to get rid of the IR as it did to make it. And this seems to be a good general rule in my experience. So if you left it on channel all day it might take a few days to clear.


Get some slides on a thumb drive or sd card you can run at night as a slide show and I bet it will fade out a lot quicker.


----------



## Cloggerdude

Well, I've been running a combination of the screen wipe, break in slides, and pixel flipper for.....basically 72 hours now. I think I can see some improvement in the IR, but it's definitely still there. I'm going to keep at it for another few days, but we'll see how it goes.


My question now is though: Does running the break-in slides generally make your tv more susceptible to IR for a brief period?


The reason I ask is because, after running the slides for 12+ hours, I popped in the Disney WoW blu-ray in order to run the pixel flipper. It came up with its disclosure message in white letters on a black screen and then switched over to the main menu. Even though the white message was displayed for maybe.....10 seconds tops, I could still make out image retention on the screen. I mean, I was sitting probably 8 feet away on the couch without my glasses and I could STILL make it out. It took a good 3-5 minutes before it faded to the point that I couldn't see it anymore.


So yeah, I guess my question is: Is this somehow related to having the tv on so long running the slides, or could this be a problem inherent to my set?


----------



## chunon

That kind of short duration IR is pretty common it happens on both my ST and VT


----------



## Cuda1169

Color slides do not increase IR on pdps. I only used color slides to quickly age my panel for professional calibration. Other than that I only use them when I want to check for IR on my panel. The Disney WoW pixel flipper works best on my panel but now that my panel as aged further it seems just watching full screen content has the same effect. HBO is the only cable channel, I know of, that largely runs full screen logo free content. Also some have said that the Disney WoW animation loop works for IR removal as well.


It sounds like yours is a floor model that kept on the ESPN channel for an undetermined amount of time. It will likely take a long time for the IR to fade. I watch ESPN and the NFL network often but have not had a problem with my ST50 as the rest of my content is varied.


----------



## Cloggerdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24451286
> 
> 
> That kind of short duration IR is pretty common it happens on both my ST and ZT



Do you have a ST60? I ask, because I've got a 55ST50 and I've never had this problem before. It was an open box as well, but had only slight IR, which has completely cleared up. However, it has never exhibited the IR tendencies that this VT60 has been showing. I've had plasmas for 10+ years now, so I'm used to a little IR, but having something on the screen for 10 seconds and then the IR staying for 3-5 minutes is completely new to me.


Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the VT60 overall. I'm not trying to whine about it or anything, I'm just genuinely trying to figure out what's going on with my set. If there were ANY other VT60's in my area, I would be all over them, but apparently (sadly) this is the only one left in a 100+ mile radius.


----------



## gossamer88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24451286
> 
> 
> That kind of short duration IR is pretty common it happens on both my ST and ZT



Happens on my VT as well. Especially when it is first turned on. Goes away less than a minute.


----------



## elmorage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24451316
> 
> 
> Color slides do not increase IR on pdps. I only used color slides to quickly age my panel for professional calibration. Other than that I only use them when I want to check for IR on my panel. The Disney WoW pixel flipper works best on my panel but now that my panel as aged further it seems just watching full screen content has the same effect. HBO is the only cable channel, I know of, that largely runs full screen logo free content. Also some have said that the Disney WoW animation loop works for IR removal as well.
> 
> 
> It sounds like yours is a floor model that kept on the ESPN channel for an undetermined amount of time. It will likely take a long time for the IR to fade. I watch ESPN and the NFL network often but have not had a problem with my ST50 as the rest of my content is varied.



STARZ is good also. They have a see through logo that pops up now and then but only stays for a minute or so. They also will sometimes throw in a letterbox movie like the incredibles or wreck it ralph but it is 95% safe for fullscreen and the overscan is set correctly as well.


----------



## chunon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gossamer88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24451579
> 
> 
> Happens on my VT as well. Especially when it is first turned on. Goes away less than a minute.



Ooops I typed ZT instead of VT lol


----------



## PowerPC

I beg your collective pardon, but this thread is daunting and I didn't see a concise FAQ on pg 1; I'm the owner of a new Samsung 5300 60" and I'm wondering if somebody could give me a quick primer on properly breaking it in? Also, does the break in process lower the TVs susceptibility to IR\burn in?


thanks


----------



## Broadus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PowerPC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24453198
> 
> 
> I beg your collective pardon, but this thread is daunting and I didn't see a concise FAQ on pg 1; I'm the owner of a new Samsung 5300 60" and I'm wondering if somebody could give me a quick primer on properly breaking it in? Also, does the break in process lower the TVs susceptibility to IR\burn in?
> 
> 
> thanks


 

My wife and I have had our Samsung PN51F5300 for almost four weeks. From what I've gathered, and what I've been doing, is making sure the picture fills the screen (no side or bottom bars), keep the contrast below 50%, and watch out for any static symbols over a long period of time. This is supposed to lower the possibility of image retention and burn in.

 

I found this common-sense article on CNET: Do I need to break in a new plasma TV?

 

Congrats on your new Samsung. Enjoy.


----------



## pcanuck

Recently purchased Panasonic TC-P50ST60 in November 2013 and have approx. 100 hrs and a few weeks ago I noticed the OPPO logo from my Blu Ray player retained the image in the panel noticeable mostly during bright scenes. After about 8 hours more of viewing time the logo has finally disappeared from normal Blu Ray viewing and is no longer visible! So image retention really does go away and does not seem to be an issue.


----------



## nxl0647


Have run the pixel flipper for 3 nights and the CNN logo has gotten a little bit lighter, but it is still there.  I can clearly see the outline of the logo on  a grey or white screen.  The individual letters from LIVE and CNN or a little more difficult to make out now.  I sort of doubt that this will go away completely.

 

Hopefully, using the pixel flipper periodically will prevent any future burn in.


----------



## Tom Riddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24456595
> 
> 
> Have run the pixel flipper for 3 nights and the CNN logo has gotten a little bit lighter, but it is still there.  I can clearly see the outline of the logo on  a grey or white screen.  The individual letters from LIVE and CNN or a little more difficult to make out now.  I sort of doubt that this will go away completely.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, using the pixel flipper periodically will prevent any future burn in.



It will most likely disappear completely after some time.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24456595
> 
> 
> Have run the pixel flipper for 3 nights and the CNN logo has gotten a little bit lighter, but it is still there.  I can clearly see the outline of the logo on  a grey or white screen.  The individual letters from LIVE and CNN or a little more difficult to make out now.  I sort of doubt that this will go away completely.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, using the pixel flipper periodically will prevent any future burn in.



Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.


Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.


The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.


Give us the results







I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


----------



## Plasma5300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


Well said!


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Plasma5300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5120_40#post_24457906
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well said!
Click to expand...


So, is your concept like my pet Ostrich or more like his horse?


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24456595
> 
> 
> Have run the pixel flipper for 3 nights and the CNN logo has gotten a little bit lighter, but it is still there.  I can clearly see the outline of the logo on  a grey or white screen.  The individual letters from LIVE and CNN or a little more difficult to make out now.  I sort of doubt that this will go away completely.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, using the pixel flipper periodically will prevent any future burn in.



Is the IR visible during normal usage? If you seeing the IR on grey or white color slides then the IR is not an issue.


----------



## nxl0647


It is not visible most of the time.  Over that one spot if there is a light background, you can see it.  My tv also has a light grey screensaver and it can be seen on that as well.

 

I know there are much worse examples of IR out there, and I am glad that this does not interfere with my tv watching.  It was just surprising because I had read so much about IR being a thing of the past with plasmas and I was really careful for the first couple of months and I assume at least a couple hundred hours.  

 

The good thing is this whole ordeal got me to take better care of my tv so I don't get worse IR in the future.  Pixel flipper on all night maybe once a week and only watch CNN on zoom.


----------



## nxl0647




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


 

Honestly I think this is great advice.  Also, my IR is not to the point where I can always see it.  The first few nights of using the pixel flipper, after I got up I would use the scrolling bars to see if i could still see it, and I was always able to still see it.  

 

It's exactly like you said, you pay money for your tv, do all of your research, read consumer reviews and websites, make an informed decision, and the last thing you want is to have this imperfection on it, and the worst thought is that there could be more IR to come.  I guess that's why I've been obsessing about it.  But now that I know IR can still be an issue, I'm going to treat my tv completely differently.


----------



## slowball




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24458462
> 
> 
> 
> So, is your concept like my pet Ostrich or more like his horse?


 

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


good advice?  if thats the case you may as well train your brain to prefer LCD screens


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nxl0647*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24462261
> 
> 
> It is not visible most of the time.  Over that one spot if there is a light background, you can see it.  My tv also has a light grey screensaver and it can be seen on that as well.
> 
> 
> I know there are much worse examples of IR out there, and I am glad that this does not interfere with my tv watching.  It was just surprising because I had read so much about IR being a thing of the past with plasmas and I was really careful for the first couple of months and I assume at least a couple hundred hours.
> 
> 
> The good thing is this whole ordeal got me to take better care of my tv so I don't get worse IR in the future.  Pixel flipper on all night maybe once a week and only watch CNN on zoom.



Depending on the panel you have, it may become more IR resistant in time. I have a ST50 and though it is not very IR resistant, any IR seems to fade much faster as my panel ages. I also use the Disney WoW pixel flipper as a preventative measure. Once a month I usually run it overnight until I return home from work the following evening. I was running the pixel flipper twice a month during football season but once a month seems to enough to deal with any nuisance IR on my panel.


----------



## RandyWalters

Something very strange happened on my 55ST60 yesterday. I was watching a recording of the Nascar Sprint Cup race but i had to go run some errands, so i paused my Tivo during a Kobalt commercial and immediately turned the TV off. A few hours later i came home, turned the TV on and immediately resumed playing the recording and noticed the IR of a big bright KOBALT logo on my screen as the race was playing. Now that logo was only on my screen for less than 1 second when i first paused the show then turned the TV off, and it was only on the screen for less than 1 second when i resumed playing the race but that logo was visible for about 2 minutes of racing until it faded away completely.


As an experiment, i later rewound back to that same commercial and paused it and left that bright KOBALT logo up on my screen for about 3 minutes and when i resumed playing the race the logo washed away in about 5 seconds and it disappeared completely.


It seems that leaving that KOBALT commercial paused for two hours WITH THE TV TURNED OFF somehow caused IR on my panel which i didn't think was possible with the TV turned OFF. It caused much worse IR during those 2 hours than simply pausing it for a few minutes with the TV on. I have never heard of such a thing happening but it just happened to me.


----------



## bull3964

My guess is it wasn't leaving it paused on it while it was off, it was the act of turning it off with that on the screen. That could be the reason I had such an issue with the Adult Swim logo since I always watched right before bed an then turned off the TV.


If IR is the result of MgO sputtering, then turning the set off before it has a chance to clear that sputtering and leaving it off may make the deposits more resistant to being cleared.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24458462
> 
> 
> So, is your concept like my pet Ostrich or more like his horse?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24463237
> 
> 
> good advice?  if thats the case you may as well train your brain to prefer LCD screens


So do you two have reading Comp problems or what? Never did I say anyone should blind themselves to the fact that plasmas have IR issues, in fact it is quite the opposite considering the fact that I was giving advise based on Neuroscience to help people that have IR actually enjoy their TV's instead of fretting over the IR they have encountered. I didn't advise anyone to disregard IR in the sense of prevention or actually getting rid of physical IR. I actually noted that preventive measures and active methods such as a flipper be used to lessen the physical IR. I did state that IR that has occurred be disregarded as much as possible while watching your TV but try to stay away from the offending channel or programming that caused the IR in the first place, and if needed use whatever zooming or picture sizing you want to prevent additional IR.


Also, there is no brain training involved beyond beyond choosing to obsess over, or disregard the IR you already have while watching TV. (revert back to the above where I advise that measures sttill be taken to lessen physical ir) If you actually try to disregard existing IR during viewing your brain will take care of the rest on its own. That is what is does. I also never said that simply disregarding visible IR will make your brain toss it out. I said that disregarding the IR will make it unnoticeable more quickly than if you stare stare at it and constantly put up slides that show the IR at its worst just to check if it's gone. Just let your brain do its job instead of constantly reminding it that there are imperfections.


If any training is needed then your sarcastic comment is actually spot on!!! It should be people educating themselves until they understand that if they need a perfect panel when looking at a solid color then they should not buy a plasma or they should have never gotten a plasma, unless they have a plasma for movies and another technology for regular TV.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I like to actually watch content on my TV, not watch a solid color slide show. In fact the only time my TV's see slides is during calibration or as a measure to reduce IR.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bull3964*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24471541
> 
> 
> My guess is it wasn't leaving it paused on it while it was off, it was the act of turning it off with that on the screen. That could be the reason I had such an issue with the Adult Swim logo since I always watched right before bed an then turned off the TV.
> 
> 
> If IR is the result of MgO sputtering, then turning the set off before it has a chance to clear that sputtering and leaving it off may make the deposits more resistant to being cleared.



I smell an experiment here! RandyWalters, want to duplicate your pause & TV shutdown? Have a test disc or slides on a thumb drive? You could try a few colors and greyscale slides that are small or set the TV to show a small box instead of a full screen.


----------



## slowball




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> *Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it.* When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


 

 

boiled down your comment suggests one should ignore it, thus the photos of heads in the sand.  as to my comment, do you think ignoring a problem is good advice? i suppose ignorance is bliss!


----------



## wilsonsoohoo

I bought a demo 60VT60 from Pacific Sales (a subsidiary of Best Buy). It took me a week to notice a relatively faint DTS logo in the bottom right. It's worst when a green panel rolls over it. It's invisible when a red panel rolls over it.


During normal viewing, I don't see it when I don't look for it. It doesn't even show up on hockey ice. But when I do see it I've trained myself to think "Holy crap, I saved $600 on this bleeping awesome TV." I have ZERO remorse about the money I spent on this screen; and it's not even calibrated yet.


Well, maybe, except for the fan noise; but either I'll get it taken care of or I'll figure out a way to muffle the noise.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24457863
> 
> 
> Honestly, the BEST way to get rid of IR is to not look for it. When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel. Even better, watch stuff that engrosses you, if you get bored change the channel. You want what you watch to to take up as much attention as possible so you don't think about the IR you have. I know it's hard to do, but if you can 'let go' of the IR like a witch ex girlfriend your brain will start to tune out the IR. Our brains are excellent at throwing away crap that isn't supposed to be there. you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. I'd you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's hard to do, you drop a few grand on a TV and you want to keep checking, but don't. If you do this your brain will toss out the IR info before its actually gone, and your viewing will be more enjoyable. Just the way the brain works. Brain games or your bleeped up brain did a show on this. They showed a copy of the Mona Lisa to people that had a UFO, the loch ness monster, a volcano, and one other thing I believe. I think it was 1 out of 20 people that even noticed the extra 'additions'. Even when people were told to look for anomalies the heavy majority didn't notice the additions because the brain has an idea of what is supposed to be there, and tosses out the extras. it can work the same way for TV, possibly better so because you're taking in a ton of info from a moving picture, and even with something as simple as a movie your brain isn't able to process all of the info, it catches the important stuff, or what it thinks is important, and fills in the rest.
> 
> 
> The brain is amazingly powerful, but even in a simple setting it can't process all the info, it gets some and fills in the rest. As an example, try to really multitask. Contrary to popular belief it is actually quite impossible to multitask effectively. A simple test: grab a book you have not read and pick a number of pages to read, of which you will be graded on your ability to recall details (have your wife or girlfriend or friend read the passage first to pick out details that you should be able to recall. No read the passage and have the person helping you do this give you some details about something that needs to be done, dates, cost, etc (just make sure it's stuff you haven't had on a honey do list, purpose here is to see how much new info you can retain.
> 
> 
> Give us the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that you actually do this if you think I'm full of it. I've had people tear into me with nasty language when I told them it is impossible to truly multitask. Best one was a ditzy blonde that got schooled. Oh, and no walking and chewing gum at the same time arguments! Repetitive behavior that doesn't require conscious thinking doesn't count.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24472628
> 
> 
> 
> boiled down your comment suggests one should ignore it, thus the photos of heads in the sand.  as to my comment, do you think ignoring a problem is good advice? i suppose ignorance is bliss!



Please read the first paragraph of my post a few times. Ignore the rest of you want, that is just the supporting science.


You can't boil down that paragraph into your very general one sentence. If you added ignore the IR as much as possible when watching programming then I would have zero problem with that statement.


'When you get IR to the point that you notice it on regular programming you're kinda screwed because you know it's there. So run your pixel flipper or gray screens or whatever to make the physical IR fade away, but DON'T go looking for it. Don't put up a slide so you can see it. Watch full screen content or even letterbox movies, just try to stay away from the offending channel.'


'you'll still have IR but you won't notice it, and running the flipper will eventually get rid of it. If you keep putting up slides to check if it's still there you'll keep IR on your brain and you'll see it longer than if you work at putting out of your mind.' (I'd was a typo and replaced with if)



Please tell me how these sentences in which I talk about having IR and advise measures to get rid of the physical problem, and that in time the physical issue will be cleared up, boil down to ignoring IR completely.


You can't because it's impossible without completely acting like I never put those words to paper. My comments were never edited to add our remove info. That is clear. Not my fault if you only skimmed it after reading the first sentence.


If you actually read it and understand it, you'll see that I only advise that people don't dwell on the IR they have while actually watching programming, and don't bust out a test disc or generator to go looking for IR. I don't see the point in looking for IR that you know exists or existed because you clearly saw it while watching programming (1st sentence! ). You know you have it, you're taking measures to get rid of it, so why not try to ignore it while watching programming? If you don't search for it while watching or keep putting up slides that show it, your brain will tune it out more quickly.


Warning! The rest here is just an example of how this could play out. I feel like I have explained myself and my post sufficiently, although I think the couple of snippets above make it pretty self explanatory that I wasn't advocating ignoring IR completely in all senses. So if you understand what I was saying then great, if not, then oh well.


This will be highly individualized, say there is someone who has never seen your TV and doesn't know there is borderline visible IR somewhere on it. That person likely won't pick it up, call them the control. (honestly I don't know if that fresh set of eyes is more or less prone to pick up the borderline IR or not, but let's assume for this exercise they don't pick it up) Even though you know it's there because you've seen it (1st sentence again) there will become a point in time which you don't notice it anymore, at this point you basically become the control. Question is, how much time separates you and the control? If you've been ignoring the IR and not reminding yourself it's still there when certain slides are put up (but still taking measures and countermeasures you get rid of it), you may only be separated by a few hours, or you might be separated by days or weeks. If you're constantly checking and reminding yourself the IR is there you'll likely go into negative time separation, IE you'll be able to notice the IR for hours, days, or weeks after the outside observer didn't pick it up.


----------



## slowball

you sure can boil down a paragraph into one sentence or theme, it's known as a thesis and usually begins a paragraph


when you intentionally don't look at something in this case IR you know is there, it's known as...ignoring among other things as well


please tell you how? just re read your very first sentence, I've highlighted it above for you


----------



## slowball

I don't really care, I just want the best way to remove IR that tackles the situation other then not looking for it. It appears the pixel flipper is best option though its a slow process


----------



## eric3316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24476544
> 
> 
> you sure can boil down a paragraph into one sentence or theme, it's known as a thesis and usually begins a paragraph
> 
> 
> when you intentionally don't look at something in this case IR you know is there, it's known as...ignoring among other things as well
> 
> 
> please tell you how? just re read your very first sentence, I've highlighted it above for you


It's kind of like people who think drinking will get rid of your problems. Once you stop drinking the problem will still be there so might as well face it up front and decide how you want to deal with it.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24476552
> 
> 
> I don't really care, I just want the best way to remove IR that tackles the situation other then not looking for it. It appears the pixel flipper is best option though its a slow process





SMFH. Seriously!?!?!? Do you not read!? You know what a thesis statement is but you can't process a few sentences?! Are you doing this to aggravate me? So do you only read the first sentence of a paragraph and skip the rest? From your comments I have to assume that is what you do. Great way to miss everything.


Here, I'll try one more time, picking fragments from my statement. Ignore the F********** IR while WATCHING PROGRAMMING. When not watching programming, RUN THE Fing PIXEL FLIPPER, SLIDES, OR A FULL SCREEN GRAYSCALE WINDOW at an IRE around 60 to 70 to GET RID OF THE PHYSICAL IR!


It can't be put more simply. If you can't ignore IR while watching programming, then please, watch movies or whatever and stare at the IR. Better yet, don't even watch TV while you have IR. Just run the flipper or slides until you're sure it's gone. Then watch a few hours of CNN to get IR back and then turn the flipper on until the IR is gone again. This way you won't have to ever ignore IR. This will be best for you anyway because you can't make the distinction between ignoring something when you can't do anything about it, yet not ignore it when you can do something about it.


Read the entire thread and you'll get the modern advice of pixel flipper, or the older method of a greyscale window. If you come up with something better/faster let us know.


I'm out.


----------



## ImmoralKnight

Might as well just get LED and not worry about IR.


----------



## Zarlence


New forum user here, as well as being a first time plasma tv owner. Nothing fancy, just a budget model from Samsung called PN51F4500, but it continues to impress me one month after purchase.

 

I'm worried however, like so many others, about this thing called Image Retention and worse yet, I cant help worrying about Burn-in.. however unlikely it is.

 

Anywho, I've been running slides and watching full screen content for about 350 hours now, and thus begun tweaking with all the picture settings available. There's a good amount of them too, especially coming from a Philips tv which was very barebones in that regard.

 

Every time I'm in the menu tweaking those settings however, there's a bright HDMI text with a logo in the upper right corner, and now it's left its mark up there.. so to speak. Thats a real bummer as I rather enjoy getting lost in menus chasing that perfect picture ( or as good as it can get without proper tools )!

 

I've been avoiding the menus as much as I could since then, and I think the mark is fading little by little. It's just such a slow process getting rid of and now I'm mindful whenever I pop up the setup screen! Such a weird choice having that bright source icon up there in the corner too, or anywhere at all, and I dont think I can remove or hide it.

 

I dont really have any good questions about this, its just the way it is I guess.

Is it a common problem though, having image retention from TV menus/icons and is it important to avoid those menus until the retention I got is completely gone?


----------



## Iceberg86300

lol that sucks. Good old Samsung with their daunting menus.


May be in the same spot but I'm not sure, but there is a menu transparency seeing in setup/general, but not sure if it changes the input in the upper right. But you do want to change that anyway so you don't get a menu for IR. Might have to lower the contrast when really messing around in the menus. But try the transparency op potion to see if it changes the input brightness.


Edit: just checked on my LCD, that option just changes the transparency of the Black window part of the menu.


----------



## xvfx

It doesn't. Bright white HDMI stays up there until you exit the menus. Nothing you can do about it.


----------



## Zarlence


I'm not even sure that lowering brightness and contrast does much, or anything at all, to lower the intensity of that HDMI logo. It stays bright and extremely white regardless.

 

The bane of any plasma TV, and it's there by design?


----------



## Iceberg86300

Samsung really sucks in that regard. Does your set have the bulk of the instruction manual in the menus as well?


There may be a seeing in the service menu to adjust that, but I'm not sure. Knowing Samsung it will either be on or off, and you kinda want to know what input your on.


Maybe try tech support through your TV, it's new so I'm assuming it's 'smart' and internet connected so they should be able to remote into it so tough don't have to mess with the service menu because you really don't want to do that, there are a few settings that will brick your TV when you push left or right on a setting thinking it will take you to the next row. (which is so natural that even after drumming it into your head to only navigate with up and down its still easy to slip and hit left or right. )


All the info is in the menu for tech support, tell them your calibrating the TV and ask if anything can be done regarding the active input label.


----------



## olyteddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5120_40#post_24477774
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5130#post_24476552
> 
> 
> I don't really care, I just want the best way to remove IR that tackles the situation other then not looking for it. It appears the pixel flipper is best option though its a slow process
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SMFH. Seriously!?!?!? Do you not read!? You know what a thesis statement is but you can't process a few sentences?! Are you doing this to aggravate me? So do you only read the first sentence of a paragraph and skip the rest? From your comments I have to assume that is what you do. Great way to miss everything.
> 
> 
> Here, I'll try one more time, picking fragments from my statement. Ignore the F********** IR while WATCHING PROGRAMMING. When not watching programming, RUN THE Fing PIXEL FLIPPER, SLIDES, OR A FULL SCREEN GRAYSCALE WINDOW at an IRE around 60 to 70 to GET RID OF THE PHYSICAL IR!
> 
> 
> It can't be put more simply. If you can't ignore IR while watching programming, then please, watch movies or whatever and stare at the IR. Better yet, don't even watch TV while you have IR. Just run the flipper or slides until you're sure it's gone. Then watch a few hours of CNN to get IR back and then turn the flipper on until the IR is gone again. This way you won't have to ever ignore IR. This will be best for you anyway because you can't make the distinction between ignoring something when you can't do anything about it, yet not ignore it when you can do something about it.
> 
> 
> Read the entire thread and you'll get the modern advice of pixel flipper, or the older method of a greyscale window. If you come up with something better/faster let us know.
> 
> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,...ETC.
> I'm out.
Click to expand...

Best post ever. You sir have an uncanny knack for stating the obvious. If you pretend something isn't there then you won't see it. I get it. Wow. Profound. How's that different than sticking your head in the sand or putting on blinders again?


PS: I believe IR can be cured, but I'll be damned if I anymore believe in 'unseeing' it as I do in levitation.


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *olyteddy*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24480100
> 
> 
> Best post ever. You sir have an uncanny knack for stating the obvious. If you pretend something isn't there then you won't see it. I get it. Wow. Profound. How's that different than sticking your head in the sand or putting on blinders again?
> 
> 
> PS: I believe IR can be cured, but I'll be damned if I anymore believe in 'unseeing' it as I do in levitation.



Yes, that should be obvious. But obviously it is not, and your posts as well as his concentrate on one aspect instead of both. I've read tons of posts regarding people constantly checking for IR. Then you 2 come along and try to say that I'm telling people to ignore it and it will go away. put blinders on and it will go away.


It's completely different from putting blinders on or getting rid of IR by not looking at it. WHY? Because of the rest of the post that you 2 seem to be putting the blinders on for.


So one more time, yes, put on blinders between your eyes and brain when you're watching TV. Here's the important part, Remove any 'blinders' in your brain when not watching TV and run the flipper our slides.


I really don't understand how it is this hard for guys to understand this.


As for your PS, of course it can be cured, but not by unseeing it. It is cured through the use of measures discussed in this thread (and my post EDIT TO ADD: the part of my post in which I talk about using the electronic measures discussed in this thread, just wanted to make that clear for the people thinking I am advocating surgically implanted IR blinders that are never too be removed). Now you said this yourself, 'if you pretend something isn't there then you won't see it.' Is it not better to do this while watching TV, and then using measures like slides or flippers to cure the IR when not watching TV? This way the IR 'disappears' sooner, I'm not saying its gone, it just seems that way while watching TV, of course you still need to run the flipper our slides to truly get rid of the IR.


Still would you rather see IR until it is completely gone while watching TV, or not see it before its actually gone while watching TV? (even though you can't see it I'm not saying that you should discontinue slides or the flipper.


Does that make any sense to you? Ignore the visual problem, but by no means ignore the fact that IR needs some measures taken to get rid of.


please tell me you see that I'm not advocating getting rid of IR by brainpower alone. In my original post I clearly say that measures such as a flipper must be used to get rid of IR.


If not give me your number so I can try to explain in real time what the reasoning is. Or chat or whatever.


----------



## Zarlence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24479539
> 
> 
> Samsung really sucks in that regard. Does your set have the bulk of the instruction manual in the menus as well?
> 
> 
> There may be a seeing in the service menu to adjust that, but I'm not sure. Knowing Samsung it will either be on or off, and you kinda want to know what input your on.
> 
> 
> Maybe try tech support through your TV, it's new so I'm assuming it's 'smart' and internet connected so they should be able to remote into it so tough don't have to mess with the service menu because you really don't want to do that, there are a few settings that will brick your TV when you push left or right on a setting thinking it will take you to the next row. (which is so natural that even after drumming it into your head to only navigate with up and down its still easy to slip and hit left or right. )
> 
> 
> All the info is in the menu for tech support, tell them your calibrating the TV and ask if anything can be done regarding the active input label.


For someone like me, It would be a bit excessive to fumble around in the service menu, even if it could be turned off and I knew what to look for :/

 

I've been watching full screen content combined with slides for a total of 30 hours now since I noticed the HDMI logo retention in the corner. It's letting up ever so slowly and not really noticeable on anything but slides. Knowing it's there however, combined with the fact that I'm avoiding using the menu in fear of it regressing, bums me out quite a bit.


----------



## glenn14


Hey all, I posted this in the VT60 Deals thread but there hasn't been much activity so I wanted to try this thread since it's more in-line with my question:

 

I picked up the 65" VT60 last night from Sears for $2099 (display model) and went ahead and got their 3 year extended warranty. I examined the TV for almost an hour before purchasing. There is no burn-in at all, April build date, 2600 hours...brought my flash drive & ran some slides on it to check for IR and ran a couple mp4's on it, everything looked good. Also took a flashlight and checked for cracks, found a 3mm hairline crack but definitely nothing you'd ever notice...so I guess it was a success! Got it home and watched a few minutes of House of Cards and 300 and the picture is astounding on THX Cinema!


My only "concern" I had was that I was surprised at how quickly the panel would IR, like if I was on a menu for 45sec to 1 minute then flipped back to an all gray background (gray screen jpeg), I could faintly see the letters from the menu against the all gray background. I've never experienced that on my 50" ST60 (October build). Sure the IR doesn't stay there long but I was surprised it would happen that quick especially after 2600 hours.

 

Anyone care to comment on this or am I just being picky? (I have 30 days to return it.)

 

Thanks!


----------



## chunon

That kind of short duration IR is normal, congrats !! I found a similar set at HHGregg couple of weeks ago, it does have some minor IR from ESPN.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chunon*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24482149
> 
> 
> That kind of short duration IR is normal, congrats !! I found a similar set at HHGregg couple of weeks ago, it does have some minor IR from ESPN.


Agree with Chunon. This is short duration IR and is quickly resolved when viewing other content. Happens on my ST50 all the time. Also any IR that is only visible via color slides and not normal TV viewing is, imo, not an issue.


----------



## slowball

Nice find, the best way to get rid of IR is to pretend it's not there! JK


Pretty normal my ps4 home screen as well as Netflix and Amazon logos tend to linger around a few seconds before disappearing pretty standard. Note sears carries a 15% restocking fee, enjoy your set!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenn14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24482112
> 
> 
> Hey all, I posted this in the VT60 Deals thread but there hasn't been much activity so I wanted to try this thread since it's more in-line with my question:
> 
> 
> I picked up the 65" VT60 last night from Sears for $2099 (display model) and went ahead and got their 3 year extended warranty. I examined the TV for almost an hour before purchasing. There is no burn-in at all, April build date, 2600 hours...brought my flash drive & ran some slides on it to check for IR and ran a couple mp4's on it, everything looked good. Also took a flashlight and checked for cracks, found a 3mm hairline crack but definitely nothing you'd ever notice...so I guess it was a success! Got it home and watched a few minutes of House of Cards and 300 and the picture is astounding on THX Cinema!
> 
> 
> 
> My only "concern" I had was that I was surprised at how quickly the panel would IR, like if I was on a menu for 45sec to 1 minute then flipped back to an all gray background (gray screen jpeg), I could faintly see the letters from the menu against the all gray background. I've never experienced that on my 50" ST60 (October build). Sure the IR doesn't stay there long but I was surprised it would happen that quick especially after 2600 hours.
> 
> 
> Anyone care to comment on this or am I just being picky? (I have 30 days to return it.)
> 
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## gus738

the tv is honestly new with only a short 2,600 hrs and do not look for ir , is it visable by then? and does this make it a deal breaker ? side note how does the vt compare to the s60 or s64?


i can say this i have an 07 px75u panasonic plasma and at first it would get ir and gaming on it has been better meaning no ir i game hrs


all my plasma i game and watch movies or tv shows.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenn14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100_100#post_24482112
> 
> 
> Hey all, I posted this in the VT60 Deals thread but there hasn't been much activity so I wanted to try this thread since it's more in-line with my question:
> 
> 
> I picked up the 65" VT60 last night from Sears for $2099 (display model) and went ahead and got their 3 year extended warranty. I examined the TV for almost an hour before purchasing. There is no burn-in at all, April build date, 2600 hours...brought my flash drive & ran some slides on it to check for IR and ran a couple mp4's on it, everything looked good. Also took a flashlight and checked for cracks, found a 3mm hairline crack but definitely nothing you'd ever notice...so I guess it was a success! Got it home and watched a few minutes of House of Cards and 300 and the picture is astounding on THX Cinema!
> 
> 
> 
> My only "concern" I had was that I was surprised at how quickly the panel would IR, like if I was on a menu for 45sec to 1 minute then flipped back to an all gray background (gray screen jpeg), I could faintly see the letters from the menu against the all gray background. I've never experienced that on my 50" ST60 (October build). Sure the IR doesn't stay there long but I was surprised it would happen that quick especially after 2600 hours.
> 
> 
> Anyone care to comment on this or am I just being picky? (I have 30 days to return it.)
> 
> 
> Thanks!





slow ball thats a lie sears does not do 15% restocking fee !



> Quote:
> slowball Note sears carries a 15% restocking fee, enjoy your set!


----------



## slowball

Look it up, since you clearly do not know what you're talking about, ignorance isn't an excuse


----------



## gus738

im telling you from experience ex employee few years back.


here a quote from sears return policy ,


Restocking Fee, Special Order Cancellation Fee (Not applicable in Hawaii)

A 15% restocking fee is charged on Consumer Electronics returned *without the original box*, used, or without all of the original product packaging, accessories and parts; mattresses, foundations, air conditioners, dehumidifiers, water heaters, and built-in Home Appliances. Special orders cancelled later than 24 hours after purchase are subject to a 15% order cancellation fee, including special orders on certain automotive merchandise, including special tires and cargo handler tops. Consumer Electronics returned in opened boxes may be, but need not be, determined to have been used.


im not trying to attack im just trying state the fact whenever customers would need return tvs , sears employees on tvs will loose commission and i've seen some co workers getting pissed off thus your restocking fee .


----------



## slowball

attack you called me a liar secondly you didn't highlight the word USED, once you take it home open and plug it in its now been...


also glenn14 it states the restocking notice on your receipt it's 3/4 of the way down


----------



## gus738

i said sears does not do restocking fee , normally we do not. unless customer pissy and did not kept the tv how it came.


here is the website.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100_100#post_24486079
> 
> 
> attack you called me a liar secondly you didn't highlight the word USED, once you take it home open and plug it in its now been...
> 
> 
> also glenn14 it states the restocking notice on your receipt it's 3/4 of the way down


and you are correct i did not highlight used i highlighted original box . without an original box the tv has to be sold as display or used even though it is brand new ( for a business this is a loss regardless how big or small sears is.)


----------



## glenn14


Sears receipt just says to check their website for return policies.

 

Anyway, this TV is *amazing!* The reason the slight & short IR was happening was partly because the picture mode was on Vivid (not sure how that happened), and because I sit much much closer to this 65" than I do my 50" ST60 downstairs. So I immediately did a factory reset & put the picture mode on THX Cinema. Absolutely gorgeous panel. Can't wait to play Witcher 2 or Skyrim on it! (still gotta hook up my Sony STR-DN840)

 

Pretty sure I'll be using this TV for a long long time. The Sears 3-year warranty is actually pretty solid, too.


----------



## slowball




----------



## gus738

yes i understand "may " be subject its not a guarantee that it will or will not based on your receipt.


----------



## slowball

may is not subjective in this case, they will charge a restocking fee


----------



## JMoore0030

i hope one of you guys can help me. I have a ST60 and I was watching a mix of 4:3 (with black bars) and fullscreen content. I broke-in the plasma for the first 150 hours or so in order to prevent burn in, but I guess I did not realize how much 4:3 content I was watching because now I have 4:3 burn in (in other words, the middle of the tv is darker than the edges). I've only had the tv for about 3 months and probably have about 300 or so hours on it. My question is, how should I best resolve this issue.


Currently, I have my tv now set to stretch 4:3 so this shouldn't be an issue any longer. However, the damage is already done so to speak (even if the burn in is only perceptible when I display a solid color). Because the phosphors age the most in the first 300 hours or so, do you think that the sides of the image will catch up to the rest of the picture so to speak? Or, should I try to age the sides of the panel myself with an image with white side bars and a black middle (essentially reversing what was happening before)?


----------



## RetroGiant

I imagine with enough full screen content it will even out no problem. Just give it some time.


----------



## JMoore0030

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. However, I want to let you guys know of something that I thought of. Right now, I switched inputs to an input with no source, set it to 4:3, and set my tv to display gray bars. Essentially, this process reverses what happens when 4:3 content is displayed. I wanted to make this post to help anyone else how may be suffering from 4:3 burn in. In theory, this should be a good way to help even the aging. However, after reading your reply, I think I might do as you suggested and wait a month or so before I try this fix. However, I want to ask has anyone had success in doing what I suggested above?


----------



## ab2ab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gus738*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24494731
> 
> 
> yes i understand "may " be subject its not a guarantee that it will or will not based on your receipt.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24494833
> 
> 
> may is not subjective in this case, they will charge a restocking fee



Right from Sears Return Policy page: Restocking Fee, Special Order Cancellation Fee (Not applicable in Hawaii)


A 15% restocking fee is charged on Consumer Electronics returned without the original box, used, or without all of the original product packaging, accessories and parts; mattresses, foundations, air conditioners, dehumidifiers, water heaters, and built-in Home Appliances. Special orders cancelled later than 24 hours after purchase are subject to a 15% order cancellation fee, including special orders on certain automotive merchandise, including special tires and cargo handler tops. *Consumer Electronics returned in opened boxes may be, but need not be, determined to have been used.* _(Emphasis mine.)_


While the language of their return policy is pretty clear, what constitutes "used" is discretionary provided the item is returned in its original box.


----------



## slowball

Ok well return it and see what happens


I'm just trying to help the guy as I was unaware of their policy when I tried a return. As I said just check your receipt, I'm telling you as an actual customer how they practice their policy. I tried to return a 60ST60 to 3 different sears, they each wanted 15% restocking this was in early February after only owning the tv less then 15 days I was able to sell it on Craigslist so I didn't lose any money but they (electronic and store managers at each location / various Chicago stores we're adamant about collecting for returns)


oh a the tv wasn't missing one item not a piece of plastic, nothing


----------



## Iceberg86300

So to stay OffTopic here, had anyone returned stuff to Fry's?


Don't think they knock you with a restocking fee, but they are horrible none the less. Bought a power supply there once that shot sparks out of it when turned on. quite spectacular.


Went in the same day to swap it out for the same exact model. That made what happened next completely stupid. They had to test it before I could get another one. Told them what was going to happen, they didn't listen/care. Brought out a test machine and flipped the switch. I couldn't stop laughing, even after the manager dragged his ass off the floor. There was a big line too, they all got a good light show and a good laugh too.


----------



## Plasmalvr60


Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only

 

Above is the subject line of this thread.  Some folks here  have lost their way.  ;-)

 

To the non-videophiles out there:  You don't need no stinking break in slides- with apologies to Treasure of The Sierra Madre fans.  Run HBO for a week- lots of different content, no logos and no news trailers.


----------



## Plasma5300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowball*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24485258
> 
> 
> Nice find, the best way to get rid of IR is to pretend it's not there! JK
> 
> 
> Pretty normal my ps4 home screen as well as Netflix and Amazon logos tend to linger around a few seconds before disappearing pretty standard. Note sears carries a 15% restocking fee, enjoy your set!


How long is the image static when you get the few seconds of IR?


----------



## Plasma5300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Plasmalvr60*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5160#post_24570829
> 
> 
> Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only
> 
> 
> Above is the subject line of this thread.  Some folks here  have lost their way.  ;-)
> 
> 
> To the non-videophiles out there:  You don't need no stinking break in slides- with apologies to Treasure of The Sierra Madre fans.  Run HBO for a week- lots of different content, no logos and no news trailers.


Yes. I just watched full screen tv shows on netflix. I played infamous second son for 2 hours and no IR afterwards. I was actually surprised. Samsung pn51f5300 1 month old


----------



## Goze211

I am using Evangelo's 1080p images on a USB stick to break in my new 64" Samsung plasma. I don't know if I have the heart to go the full 150 hours but intend too do it 24-48 hours. I am curious though; does anyone understand the reasoning in the individual red, green, and blue slides? It seems unnecessary as the gray-scale slides have red, green, and blue cells illuminated anyways.


Thanks,

"goes to eleven"


----------



## Ronnie 1.8

I have a TC-P55VT60 with horrible IR. I've completed calibration (short of advanced techniques) using CALMAN 5 Calman Control for Home Video, and picture looks great when an image is on the screen. If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.


Was at a friends yesterday that has a 2012 Sharp Elite, and the blacks are impossibly inky, with not a single bit of IR (it's an LCD). It makes me realize how poor the blacks are, or rather, how much IR I have in dark scenes. Overall, this IR has made me wish I'd NOT purchased the VT60 in December. It's supposed to have the best picture quality, almost among any display, but that horrible IR has me feeling otherwise.


----------



## AMartin56




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ronnie 1.8*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24599540
> 
> 
> If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.



I don't see how IR could vary all that much between inputs unless its just less visible with different brightness settings etc. And if that was the case just try the settings that result in less perceived IR.


Not to mention this Elite vs Panny article.

http://www.cnet.com/news/panasonic-st50-vs-sharp-elite-pro-how-much-would-you-pay/


----------



## Ronnie 1.8

Interesting. I thought the same thing last night when I compared HDMI1 vs HDMI2 vs HDMI3. After reading your post, I again checked these 3 inputs, and found the IR to be about the same - I couldn't see any. I'd say the TV had time for the IR to fade, since it hadn't been watched from late last night to about 11:30 PM when I checked again.


Regardless, while watching movies, TV, managing Roku menu, etc., IR is very noticeable. As I said, picture looks fantastic when an image is actually on the screen, but the dark in-between scenes reveals much IR. I even noticed IR from my Roku main menu during the opening dark scenes of a movie. That's really distracting.


It's not a debatable point - I see what I see, and compared even to my 2005 Pro Panasonic plasma (monitor only), this VT60 has so much IR, that before I installed this TV in Dec '13, I didn't know what IR was.


Bottom line is I wasn't aware it would be so distracting, and I find it disappointing.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goze211*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24597950
> 
> 
> I am using Evangelo's 1080p images on a USB stick to break in my new 64" Samsung plasma. I don't know if I have the heart to go the full 150 hours but intend too do it 24-48 hours. I am curious though; does anyone understand the reasoning in the individual red, green, and blue slides? It seems unnecessary as the gray-scale slides have red, green, and blue cells illuminated anyways.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> "goes to eleven"



The colored slides add in aging your plasma phosphors evenly.


----------



## Plasma5300

How many hours recommended before I can watch movies with black bars top and bottom?


----------



## xvfx

I assumed as long as you mixed content you would be just fine. I've watched numerous black bar films (just not one after another) and the screen is flawless on my display. I've never had to use any screen wipe/pixel flippers-joggers or whatever they're called.


----------



## Plasma5300

Cool. Thanks


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Plasma5300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24611582
> 
> 
> How many hours recommended before I can watch movies with black bars top and bottom?



Most recommend 100-150 hours. I had my panel calibrated so I ran my ST50 for two weeks straight w/o ever shutting it off. I ran slides whenever I was not watching the panel and watched 2.35:1 movies and gamed minimally during this period as well. My panel suffered no ill effects. 90% of that time I watched full screen logo free content.


----------



## Plasma5300

I finally watched a movie with black bars top and bottom. Almost a 2 hour movie. AfterwardsI could see slight ir. Also watched vikings tv show on history channel and i could see the H in the corner afterwards slighly on light gray screen. It all went away after around 5 -10 minutes. Is this normal or something to be concerned about?


----------



## Cuda1169

That is normal temporary IR that fades quickly. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## Plasma5300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24628074
> 
> 
> That is normal temporary IR that fades quickly. Nothing to worry about.


Thanks! Haha Wife was like "you broke your tv!" Haha. She adding fuel to the fire didnt help much! Haha


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Plasma5300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24628631
> 
> 
> Thanks! Haha Wife was like "you broke your tv!" Haha. She adding fuel to the fire didnt help much! Haha



Color slides are useful for exposing IR. That said, if your IR is not visible under normal TV viewing it is not a problem. On my panel, I have not had any IR that has interrupted my regular viewing of TV and movies. From time to time I check for IR with color slides and there may be a bit that shows up on one or two slides which for me is not an issue.


If you are really concerned, you can get the Disney WoW blu ray and run the pixel flipper overnight once a month or so. This can help with any nuisance IR.


Enjoy your panel.


----------



## Plasma5300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cuda1169*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24629716
> 
> 
> Color slides are useful for exposing IR. That said, if your IR is not visible under normal TV viewing it is not a problem. On my panel, I have not had any IR that has interrupted my regular viewing of TV and movies. From time to time I check for IR with color slides and there may be a bit that shows up on one or two slides which for me is not an issue.
> 
> 
> If you are really concerned, you can get the Disney WoW blu ray and run the pixel flipper overnight once a month or so. This can help with any nuisance IR.
> 
> 
> Enjoy your panel.


Yea i could only really see it using the built in tv gray color slides faintly. I purchased the WOW disc to help calibrate the tv when I bought the tv but Im actually satisfied with standard settings wothout tweeking much. Thanks for the response!


----------



## zgpsh1967




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ronnie 1.8*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24599540
> 
> 
> I have a TC-P55VT60 with horrible IR. I've completed calibration (short of advanced techniques) using CALMAN 5 Calman Control for Home Video, and picture looks great when an image is on the screen. If I put the TV on HDMI 1, which is the input from the receiver, I can see significant IR (the Smart Viera logo from Panasonic, which I really want to stop from appearing), and outlines of other images. If I then change to HDMI2, it's pretty clean - no IR that I can see.
> 
> 
> Was at a friends yesterday that has a 2012 Sharp Elite, and the blacks are impossibly inky, with not a single bit of IR (it's an LCD). It makes me realize how poor the blacks are, or rather, how much IR I have in dark scenes. Overall, this IR has made me wish I'd NOT purchased the VT60 in December. It's supposed to have the best picture quality, almost among any display, but that horrible IR has me feeling otherwise.


I have lucked out and found a new ST60 at a local B&M store (long story) but hesitant to buy due to concerns with S/ST/VT susceptibility to IR.  Can I ask how your VT60 got IR?


----------



## Ronnie 1.8

I don't know. I had a pro Panasonic plasma bought new in '05, and it never had IR. How do new plasmas get IR? I honestly don't know. I thought IR was simply a trait of some plasma displays. It's really bad, though. Was at a friend's today, and they have a Sony LCD, that showed zero traces of IR. And I have another friend with a Sharp Elite LCD (from '11 or '12) and it has zero IR. If I knew back in December when I now know about this plasma and IR, I wouldn't have purchased it.


----------



## dstew100

Dug around the first page and last few pages of this thread and couldn't quickly find an answer to the questions, suspect they're here, but I'm on a return window time crunch. Apologize for any duplication I may or may not be adding to.



Picked up a Panny 50s60 open box yesterday. Thought I had checked it for IR in the store but used poor technique (wrong content) and missed it. I have top and bottom bar IR, ESPN logo IR, and something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen (doesn't seem to match TV menus but seems like some kind of menu thingy). Panel has a little over 3300 hours on it. I do not have disney wow disk. I have run the built in screen wipe, ballparking 5 hours. I have recently switched to vivid + crank up brightness with the screen wipe thinking that will make it more effect and reduce the amount of time needed to get rid of this IR. I can download and run other content if there's some screen wipe utility available online you all think is better then the built in utility. I have run the slides on another panel, but that's not for wiping right? I feel like the IR is getting dimmer, but who really knows... I do have a 55st30 and am familiar with the Panny quick to come quick to go IR and that is not a huge deal to me as long as it is temporary.


1) How do you distinguish between IR and Burn In? How long do I run the wipe before declaring, that's burn in and this wipe technique isn't going to fix it?

2) Is vivid + max brightness a good or a bad idea for the screen wipe and why?

3) I can get a LG 60PN5000 plasma at about the same price. Do you all think the 60" LG 60PN5000 new in box > 50" Panny 50S60? If this is burn in and does not go away I think I will be unhappy with it long term. If it goes away I think I'm happy with the Panny.

4) Should I try something other than the built in screen wipe?


Thanks for your time


----------



## FlatPanelNoob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstew100*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24657373
> 
> 
> Dug around the first page and last few pages of this thread and couldn't quickly find an answer to the questions, suspect they're here, but I'm on a return window time crunch. Apologize for any duplication I may or may not be adding to.
> 
> 
> 
> Picked up a Panny 50s60 open box yesterday. Thought I had checked it for IR in the store but used poor technique (wrong content) and missed it. I have top and bottom bar IR, ESPN logo IR, and something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen (doesn't seem to match TV menus but seems like some kind of menu thingy). Panel has a little over 3300 hours on it. I do not have disney wow disk. I have run the built in screen wipe, ballparking 5 hours. I have recently switched to vivid + crank up brightness with the screen wipe thinking that will make it more effect and reduce the amount of time needed to get rid of this IR. I can download and run other content if there's some screen wipe utility available online you all think is better then the built in utility. I have run the slides on another panel, but that's not for wiping right? I feel like the IR is getting dimmer, but who really knows... I do have a 55st30 and am familiar with the Panny quick to come quick to go IR and that is not a huge deal to me as long as it is temporary.
> *Where did you buy it from? I got a 65ST60 from HHGregg and had to return it. They are FORCED to leave all display TVs on ESPN, and this causes all their display plasmas to suffer horrific burn-in. As for that "something weird going on up and down the left side of the screen" ESPN has those "Up Next" things on the left side of the screen. I had a clear as day ESPN logo on the bottom right, and clear as day "Up Next" burn-in on the entire left side. Mine had 3200 hours on it.*
> 
> 1) How do you distinguish between IR and Burn In? How long do I run the wipe before declaring, that's burn in and this wipe technique isn't going to fix it?
> *If the TV has 3300 hours on it, and all those hours have been on ESPN, it's burn-in. There is NOTHING you can do to fix it. I gave mine 3 weeks of normal viewing mixed with screen wipes every night while I was sleeping. Made ZERO difference.*
> 
> 2) Is vivid + max brightness a good or a bad idea for the screen wipe and why?
> *At this point, try whatever you think might work.*
> 
> 3) I can get a LG 60PN5000 plasma at about the same price. Do you all think the 60" LG 60PN5000 new in box > 50" Panny 50S60? If this is burn in and does not go away I think I will be unhappy with it long term. If it goes away I think I'm happy with the Panny.
> *Hate to sound pessimistic, but if it was on ESPN for 3300 hours, it's not going away. Return the thing as fast as you can. I don't know enough about the LG, though. Sorry.*
> 
> 4) Should I try something other than the built in screen wipe?
> *(Beating a dead horse) Return it. You have burn-in. Sorry.*
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ronnie 1.8*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5200_50#post_24637117
> 
> 
> I don't know. I had a pro Panasonic plasma bought new in '05, and it never had IR. How do new plasmas get IR? I honestly don't know. I thought IR was simply a trait of some plasma displays. It's really bad, though. Was at a friend's today, and they have a Sony LCD, that showed zero traces of IR. And I have another friend with a Sharp Elite LCD (from '11 or '12) and it has zero IR. If I knew back in December when I now know about this plasma and IR, I wouldn't have purchased it.



LCD doesn't suffer from IR.


----------



## Ronnie 1.8

Right, William.


----------



## PowerPC

What I find funny is that my 5300 series 60" Samsung gets plenty of temporary IR. But my prior 42" Samsung 720p plasma, which I had for three years, never showed the slightest trace of IR, no matter what content I watched. And I used to watch a lot of 4:3. I didn't even know what IR was until I purchased my 60"


Why didn't the 42" suffer from it?


----------



## glenn14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PowerPC*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24667364
> 
> 
> What I find funny is that my 5300 series 60" Samsung gets plenty of temporary IR. But my prior 42" Samsung 720p plasma, which I had for three years, never showed the slightest trace of IR, no matter what content I watched. And I used to watch a lot of 4:3. I didn't even know what IR was until I purchased my 60"
> 
> 
> Why didn't the 42" suffer from it?



I was talking to a guy about this the other day. I watch my 65" VT60 from about 6.5ft away and I can see some temporary IR when I leave a menu or something static for a couple minutes. He pretty much told me 90% of it is a combination of viewing distance, ambient light, and panel contrast. Well, I fit in all three of those categories: I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio. The other 10% is just differences in the way the panel is designed and built.


Like anything else you hear, take it with a grain of salt, but the guy I spoke with has been into video & audio for quite a while.


----------



## zgpsh1967


I too have had older Panasonic plasmas (pre-3D) and zero issues with stubborn IR and wondered why some of the newer Panasonic panels seems be more susceptible to IR.

 

Then I came across an article on Flatpanels HD that really intrigued me:

 

*"Retention / burn-in has been one of the issues that have plagued the plasma technology since its inception. When it was finally reduced to an insignificant level, 3D came along and caused new issues due to a new type of phosphor. With ST60 we are approaching good territory again, and we only saw very minor retention on ST60 even though we used it for various tasks, including a PC desktop. Panasonic has also implemented a number of anti-retention techniques such as a pixel orbiter that moves images a few pixels to the side, as well as a detector that turns off the picture if you leave the TV on the Smart Viera home screen. Retention is not a major issue on ST60 and we consider it an improvement over last year but do not expect a perfect retention-free TV."*

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Link to article

 

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1366730214


----------



## Iceberg86300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenn14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24677353
> 
> 
> I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio.


How far away are you? ISF rule of thumb is 1½x panel size minimum. DISCLAIMER: I learned this in my cert class around '05-'06, when stuff was beginning the full 1080p revolution. Personally I like at least 1¾x, and if at all possible 2x. I always go as close to 2x on the small side, and even more when possible for customer installs. (Recommend at least, I'll educate, but they're paying so I'll drop a seat 2 feet from the panel if that's what they want.) Also use the the folding chair technique, in another theater if needed, to dial in their preference.


You should definitely pick up a d6500 bulb, a socket for a paper lantern or equivalent, and a dimmer. Pitch black viewing really isn't ideal. If you can get your panel a foot or two off the wall, place the bulb near the panel and point it so you get 360° of light around the panel. (Angle it up if you're lighting up gear or a stand under the panel.) Then sit back with the dimmer and adjust. If you like it, which I think you will if you watch for a day or two, something more permanent can be installed and controlled with a remote or tablet. If you can't do behind the panel then a couple bulbs behind your viewing position on the side walls in sconces directing up works too. This option is also used if your walls aren't a good color and even a dim glow seems to blow out around the panel.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zgpsh1967*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24679717
> 
> 
> When it was finally reduced to an insignificant level, 3D came along and caused new issues due to a new type of phosphor.



Yet another problem caused by everyone and their mother only building 3D capable panels. Your average consumer is led to believe that 3D capability is needed for future proofing, or just plain think they need 3D, and never even using it. I'd rather have all that 3D tech taken out, and have the cost difference go to better processing/panel tech.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenn14*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24677353
> 
> 
> I was talking to a guy about this the other day. I watch my 65" VT60 from about 6.5ft away and I can see some temporary IR when I leave a menu or something static for a couple minutes. He pretty much told me 90% of it is a combination of viewing distance, ambient light, and panel contrast. Well, I fit in all three of those categories: I sit close to a big screen, I watch it in a pitch black room, and the panel has an excellent contrast ratio. The other 10% is just differences in the way the panel is designed and built.
> 
> 
> Like anything else you hear, take it with a grain of salt, but the guy I spoke with has been into video & audio for quite a while.



Temporary IR is normal and sounds like it’s not an issue for you. Ambient light and viewing distance do nothing for IR except perhaps make it more visible. Hi contrast ration can cause temporary IR but it sounds as if you IR dissipates quickly. I have a 60” and sit anywhere from 10-10½ feet from my screen, depending on my position from the couch. I watch my TV in a dark room with the panel backlit as well.


----------



## Cuda1169




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iceberg86300*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24681232
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another problem caused by everyone and their mother only building 3D capable panels. Your average consumer is led to believe that 3D capability is needed for future proofing, or just plain think they need 3D, and never even using it. I'd rather have all that 3D tech taken out, and have the cost difference go to better processing/panel tech.



Great point. My ST50 is 3D capable and I have used it a total of 2 times and then only when my niece and nephew begged me to watch a 3D movie. I definitely prefer a good 2D 1080p movie over any 3D version.


----------



## gossamer88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gossamer88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5100#post_24447469
> 
> 
> Your posts have been very encouraging. My one month old VT60 has IR from the ID Discovery channel. My wife loves that channel and watched for hours and hours. She feels horrible about it and some of the things I have done have helped. I'm hoping it will go away completely as this TV is getting near impossible to find.
> 
> 
> Here's a video I posted on YouTube with the description of the troubleshooting I've done.



Here's an update. As you can see, after about two months there is significant reduction in the IR.


----------



## guvadc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gossamer88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24688276
> 
> 
> Here's an update. As you can see, after about two months there is significant reduction in the IR.



Thank you for this. During the 2 months, how noticeable would say the IR was visable on every day viewing, or how distracting? Could you sit down and enjoy a movie without being bothered by it?


----------



## gossamer88

The only time I could see it was with a light background. It never really was visible otherwise. But the fact that it was there bothered me.


----------



## guvadc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gossamer88*  /t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/5190#post_24688978
> 
> 
> The only time I could see it was with a light background. It never really was visible otherwise. But the fact that it was there bothered me.



Yeah, I know it's bothersome. I'm myself am starting to come to the conclusion that there are worse things to be bothered by with TV's than this.


----------



## gdg

I didn't know I should have run in (burned in) my brand new Panasonic TCP50ST60 before watching movies in CinemaScope 2.35:1 - 2.40:1. I've probably watched maybe 10 movies with these aspect ratios out of a total of 40-50 hours of mixed viewing. Is it too late to start evenly burning in the screen using looped slides?


Ps. There's no sign of image retention at the top and bottom of the screen (where the black bars would have been).


----------



## Iceberg86300

You're good! If you don't see IR there is nothing to worry about. Never have to burn in the TV anyway. Slides just age the TV at an accelerated rate so you can get it calibrated after owning it for the minim period of time.


I'd say you actually made out pretty well. I'm assuming you have been watching regular programming as well? You've watched the least offending content in those movies, only small slivers of black, and because you don't see IR I'm assuming the regular content you watched didn't have a nasty network logo.


Those movies amount to what, 20 hours? Just keep on goin on the way you've been watching. Avoid a lot of letterbox and it's cousin the un stretched 4:3, As well as nasty network logos and tickers. (20 hours isn't really allot)


Watching nothing but letterbox is bad, unless you zoom, and same with network logos.


If you want to get out of the danger zone more quickly, go buy a tactile turtleneck and run slides or a 60-70 IRE greyscale window when your not actively watching TV. I'm also going to guess that you flipped out into movie mode at the very least, or you have turned the contrast down to get it out of torch mode. If you used a cal disc for this, you may want to drop the contrast around 5-15 points when your watching something with a logo. (that's just an estimate, I don't own a copy of your set. Just know you don't have to drop it to the o point of "this picture sucks". These are all just rule of thumb things to do in your first 150-200 hours of use. If you do end up running greyscales go ahead and subtract that time from the 200 hours.


You can take these suggestions with a grain of salt if you like, as you don't have IR from what you've been watching. What I've listed above takes care of the worst offenders, but so does varying the content a lot, which sounds like what you've been doing. Damn, I've been meaning to upload the old avia SD disc to my website. that will give you greyscale and color slides to run through checking for IR, but other than that the greyscale Windows (you have to stretch them for full frame accelerated aging) and learning about home theater is ask the SD disc is good for. You don't want to use the color windows for anything but checking. If you want to "run slides" you would want a source put together just for that purpose. If I get around to uploading avia I'll let you know. In the meantime you'll want to pick up a copy of the Disney WOW disc for front control calibration and the pixel flipper. Out of everything in this plasma thread, I think that's the most universally accepted advice.


As always, you paid what?, a couple grand on something to provide good entertainment? So don't let all the crap I just typed get in the way of your enjoyment of your new set. As you have found, 20 hours of letterbox isn't going to screw your TV. 20 hours of watching the same channel with a nasty logo however, WILL likely get your panties in a twist!







No offense there, just the saying, and we are talking about something you paid a few grand for. So watch smartly and enjoy that baby!


Steve


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

So now I have 2630 hours on my Samsung PN60F8500 (owned it since last July), and decided to run color slides to catch any hints of IR. The bottom right corner seems to be a bit "messy," but there's _definitely_ nothing clear to make out, nor would it every be obtrusive. I was thinking: "So far, so good." Then I noticed it... the letters 'CSN' representing Comcast SportsNet in the upper left corner, and an NBC-like logo above it. It's a part of the score bug for Giants baseball games, and I watch every one of their games. It shows up for at least 2.5 hours a game for over 100 games in that time frame... so we're looking at at least 250 hours with that logo showing up there. That's like 10% of my viewing. No wonder it's up there!


Granted, I've never noticed it before and it's not that obvious. It took some squinting to recognize that it was there. But alas, I have recognized my first bit of uneven wear on this set, after claiming for a long time that uneven wear almost appeared to be nonexistent on it. I suppose I was wrong.


Just a heads up for the masses out there. Again, nothing bad and I won't change viewing habits, but I might run the WOW pixel flipper a bit more to see if I can remedy it. Mark down June 2nd to see how long this might take, for those who were interested.


----------



## EscapeVelocity

Im about to purchase my first Brand New plasma and am wondering about if this is necessary, and if so what does it do for me (the plasma panel)? And what is the easiest way to go about doing it if I should?


Thanks!


----------



## chunon

Opinions vary but I have also just used conservative setting for the first 100 hours or so, mix up content. If you are trying to age it faster for a professional calibration use slides otherwise its pretty simple in my experience


----------



## alk6698

*TC-P55ST60 Image Retention*

So I have seen pretty drastic change in my TC-P55ST60's susceptibility to image retention over the past month or so.

I bought it in mid-January. When I first plugged it in, I set the picture to the settings from the ST60 review by David K at Cnet. I dialed back the contrast to 65 and left on the "ECO" option that dims the panel constantly. I didn't change any settings for the first 2 months and just watched TV as I normally would. I had zero issues with any image retention even when searching for it using the screen wipe feature.

After the first 2 months, I turned the contrast up to 79 and turned off the eco option. Still didn't have any issues with image retention. During both these settings periods, I watched a ton of sports with static logos and graphics for 2-3 hours at a time. No issues. I'd also play some heavy gaming sessions for 2-3 hours at a time and no issues with HUDs and image retention.

Then one day in about early June, I turned the TV on and pulled up my cable guide for 10 seconds or so then exited it, and noticed some faint image retention from the white text against the dark background of the guide that went away about 10 minutes after. This kept happening every time I turned the TV on, any "static" image that was there when it first turned on would stick for 10 minutes or so. This included 4:3 bars, on-screen channel guide, and even some static scene background that wasn't moving during an episode of Family Guy. This only happened as soon as I turned the TV on.Somewhere around this time, I watched a baseball game for an hour straight and now have the network logo visible on any light screen on the TV.

I really have to pay attention to what I watch now. It's still really bad when I turn the TV on, I have to make sure I shut the TV off with HBO as the last channel so that I get a full-screen, no logo image when I turn it back on. I also cannot watch any sports or other content with any static graphics for more than 10 minutes without getting image retention, so I have to sidecut-zoom the aspect ratio and hope that its enough to not show any of the graphics. 

Changing the contrast ratio doesn't have any effect. I get the same behavior in the same time whether the contrast is at 30 or 79. I have never gone above 79 contrast.

Has this happened to anyone else, where you have zero issues for the first few months then all of a sudden image retention becomes a problem? This seems like the opposite of what the norm is, where the TV most susceptible with very few viewing hours on it, then gradually gets more stable.

The retention does not really affect the picture, as its only visible in very light scenes, but I am constantly worrying about any static image on the screen and how long displaying it is too long before the image WILL begin to affect my normal view. I am scared to watch blu-rays or any non-16:9 movies now out of fear of the black bars being retained.

I'm a first-time plasma owner and bought this TV based on every website review I read touting the picture quality and plasma image retention not being an issue anymore. I'm almost ready to buy a different TV and do something with this one, out of fear that this will continue to get worse.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

That's very strange that it's getting worse over time. Technically, mine might be getting worse over time as well because of my reports, but I think I'm actually just aware that my TV can get it now is all.

I don't think my TV's IR habits have changed at all since getting it, though.


----------



## Tom Riddle

alk6698 said:


> So I have seen pretty drastic change in my TC-P55ST60's susceptibility to image retention over the past month or so.
> 
> I bought it in mid-January. When I first plugged it in, I set the picture to the settings from the ST60 review by David K at Cnet. I dialed back the contrast to 65 and left on the "ECO" option that dims the panel constantly. I didn't change any settings for the first 2 months and just watched TV as I normally would. I had zero issues with any image retention even when searching for it using the screen wipe feature.
> 
> After the first 2 months, I turned the contrast up to 79 and turned off the eco option. Still didn't have any issues with image retention. During both these settings periods, I watched a ton of sports with static logos and graphics for 2-3 hours at a time. No issues. I'd also play some heavy gaming sessions for 2-3 hours at a time and no issues with HUDs and image retention.
> 
> Then one day in about early June, I turned the TV on and pulled up my cable guide for 10 seconds or so then exited it, and noticed some faint image retention from the white text against the dark background of the guide that went away about 10 minutes after. This kept happening every time I turned the TV on, any "static" image that was there when it first turned on would stick for 10 minutes or so. This included 4:3 bars, on-screen channel guide, and even some static scene background that wasn't moving during an episode of Family Guy. This only happened as soon as I turned the TV on.Somewhere around this time, I watched a baseball game for an hour straight and now have the network logo visible on any light screen on the TV.
> 
> I really have to pay attention to what I watch now. It's still really bad when I turn the TV on, I have to make sure I shut the TV off with HBO as the last channel so that I get a full-screen, no logo image when I turn it back on. I also cannot watch any sports or other content with any static graphics for more than 10 minutes without getting image retention, so I have to sidecut-zoom the aspect ratio and hope that its enough to not show any of the graphics.
> 
> Changing the contrast ratio doesn't have any effect. I get the same behavior in the same time whether the contrast is at 30 or 79. I have never gone above 79 contrast.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else, where you have zero issues for the first few months then all of a sudden image retention becomes a problem? This seems like the opposite of what the norm is, where the TV most susceptible with very few viewing hours on it, then gradually gets more stable.
> 
> The retention does not really affect the picture, as its only visible in very light scenes, but I am constantly worrying about any static image on the screen and how long displaying it is too long before the image WILL begin to affect my normal view. I am scared to watch blu-rays or any non-16:9 movies now out of fear of the black bars being retained.
> 
> I'm a first-time plasma owner and bought this TV based on every website review I read touting the picture quality and plasma image retention not being an issue anymore. I'm almost ready to buy a different TV and do something with this one, out of fear that this will continue to get worse.


That seems to be an odd situation. I would contact Panasonic to see what assistance they can provide.


----------



## Iceberg86300

alk6698 said:


> So I have seen pretty drastic change in my TC-P55ST60's susceptibility to image retention over the past month or so.
> 
> I bought it in mid-January. When I first plugged it in, I set the picture to the settings from the ST60 review by David K at Cnet. I dialed back the contrast to 65 and left on the "ECO" option that dims the panel constantly. I didn't change any settings for the first 2 months and just watched TV as I normally would. I had zero issues with any image retention even when searching for it using the screen wipe feature.
> 
> After the first 2 months, I turned the contrast up to 79 and turned off the eco option. Still didn't have any issues with image retention. During both these settings periods, I watched a ton of sports with static logos and graphics for 2-3 hours at a time. No issues. I'd also play some heavy gaming sessions for 2-3 hours at a time and no issues with HUDs and image retention.
> 
> Then one day in about early June, I turned the TV on and pulled up my cable guide for 10 seconds or so then exited it, and noticed some faint image retention from the white text against the dark background of the guide that went away about 10 minutes after. This kept happening every time I turned the TV on, any "static" image that was there when it first turned on would stick for 10 minutes or so.


Did you perform a firmware update around this time by any chance? 

This seems similar to what some people experienced after meeting with their kuro sets. Ever been in the service menu? (Hopefully not for warranty claim)

There are a ton of voltage settings, and settings / algorithms that affect these voltages directly and indirectly. A bug could have been introduced somewhere by firmware, or front panel settings, or a physical electrical / electrical signal problem in the components. 

It only takes one bit. Firmware MAY fix it, but I wouldn't do that just yet. 

You definitely want to get in touch with Panny, you're still in warranty and can reproduce the problem easily. could end up with new electronics and if that fixes the issue, a new a panel as well. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Jarad Goldstein

I need help? I bought a tcp60zt60 I never broke it in properly my fault my first plasma. I am a gamer and now I have some ghosting in the corners were the game hub would be. I dont know how long they have been there. I do know I have had the tv about 4 months now. I have been running a screen fixer for plasmas on youtube for about two days now it is lightning up a bit but will it ever go away? Id hate to spend 3 grand on a tv that has this. I only see it on light colors not when im watching movies. Any suggestions? I can post pictures if needed or if you guys need more info let me know. Also how long could it take to remove this if it can be removed or am I doing this all in vain. Heeeeelllllllppppppp.


----------



## 5x10

both my plasmas(65vt30 and 55st50) have burn in
my wife watches the ID channel(every show is basically wives killing husbands), both tv have the logos burned in
my st50 is more severe 
i had some Call of duty IR, but it seems to have gone away as I havent played it in a long time

hoping my OLED doesnt get ir/burn in, so far, so good


----------



## iketech

5x10 said:


> both my plasmas(65vt30 and 55st50) have burn in
> my wife watches the ID channel(every show is basically wives killing husbands), both tv have the logos burned in
> my st50 is more severe
> i had some Call of duty IR, but it seems to have gone away as I havent played it in a long time
> 
> hoping my OLED doesnt get ir/burn in, so far, so good


 
I have the 55st50.............with the Nat Geo Wild logo burn-in.


----------



## persona

whats the latest break in disc I should use with a modern plasma? the disc from Evangelo has only 720p resolution images(?), is that one still suitable?


----------



## t-bus

Hi all, 

Well, I've had this TV for a few months. I burned it in properly with full screen content, no captioning-- and never cranked brightness or contrast.

Since the burn-in, I've been watching a lot of Netflix via the built-in client in the TV, mostly with CC on.
Today, I pulled up some content that had a white screen, and noticed something horrifying-- Two faint, thick, blurry magenta bars 3/4 down my screen, centered, that fade off on the edges.

It's the damn captioning area, those bright yellow captions must have burned the pixels in that area. I also have a theory that when you use smart-tv apps, the pixel orbiter doesn't work, but that wouldn't help a lot here. Either way, Netflix must also always center their captions on fixed rows.

I watched about 5 hours of other content on VIVID (a setting I never use typically) and the bars appear a *little* fainter, but are still quite visible. (Now that I know they're there, I see them occasionally when watching actual content)

How screwed am I? Any chance this will go away completely? You can't even get these sets anymore...
Sorry, but I feel like the CC decoder BUILT INTO THE TV'S Netflix App should attempt to render captions in a plasma-safe way.

I should have been more cautious, I guess, but I babied the set pretty hard in the beginning. I'm pretty livid at the moment.

You can see what I'm talking about in the following picture, despite some other artifacts that are caused by trying to photograph the TV: http://imgur.com/cRKgSH5


----------



## Iceberg86300

t-bus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I've had this TV for a few months. I burned it in properly with full screen content, no captioning-- and never cranked brightness or contrast.
> 
> Since the burn-in, I've been watching a lot of Netflix via the built-in client in the TV, mostly with CC on.
> Today, I pulled up some content that had a white screen, and noticed something horrifying-- Two faint, thick, blurry magenta bars 3/4 down my screen, centered, that fade off on the edges.
> 
> It's the damn captioning area, those bright yellow captions must have burned the pixels in that area. I also have a theory that when you use smart-tv apps, the pixel orbiter doesn't work, but that wouldn't help a lot here. Either way, Netflix must also always center their captions on fixed rows.
> 
> I watched about 5 hours of other content on VIVID (a setting I never use typically) and the bars appear a *little* fainter, but are still quite visible. (Now that I know they're there, I see them occasionally when watching actual content)
> 
> How screwed am I? Any chance this will go away completely? You can't even get these sets anymore...
> Sorry, but I feel like the CC decoder BUILT INTO THE TV'S Netflix App should attempt to render captions in a plasma-safe way.
> 
> I should have been more cautious, I guess, but I babied the set pretty hard in the beginning. I'm pretty livid at the moment.
> 
> You can see what I'm talking about in the following picture, despite some other artifacts that are caused by trying to photograph the TV: http://imgur.com/cRKgSH5


Doesn't really look bad. How long did you "burn in" the set and how long have captions been on? Guesstimate. 

When being so judicious about not watching any programming that contains stuff that can cause IR you should have tuned the bight & contrast to test disc levels. 

If you have a test disc throw up a 70 IRE greyscale slide when not watching the TV. Pixel flipper could be used as well/instead if you have the disc. 

That should make it so it's not noticeable in not to much time. Then you may want to decrease the contrast a bit if you'll be watching a lot of the CC stuff. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Cuda1169

t-bus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I've had this TV for a few months. I burned it in properly with full screen content, no captioning-- and never cranked brightness or contrast.
> 
> Since the burn-in, I've been watching a lot of Netflix via the built-in client in the TV, mostly with CC on.
> Today, I pulled up some content that had a white screen, and noticed something horrifying-- Two faint, thick, blurry magenta bars 3/4 down my screen, centered, that fade off on the edges.
> 
> It's the damn captioning area, those bright yellow captions must have burned the pixels in that area. I also have a theory that when you use smart-tv apps, the pixel orbiter doesn't work, but that wouldn't help a lot here. Either way, Netflix must also always center their captions on fixed rows.
> 
> I watched about 5 hours of other content on VIVID (a setting I never use typically) and the bars appear a *little* fainter, but are still quite visible. (Now that I know they're there, I see them occasionally when watching actual content)
> 
> How screwed am I? Any chance this will go away completely? You can't even get these sets anymore...
> Sorry, but I feel like the CC decoder BUILT INTO THE TV'S Netflix App should attempt to render captions in a plasma-safe way.
> 
> I should have been more cautious, I guess, but I babied the set pretty hard in the beginning. I'm pretty livid at the moment.
> 
> You can see what I'm talking about in the following picture, despite some other artifacts that are caused by trying to photograph the TV: http://imgur.com/cRKgSH5


The IR is really not that bad. You could try a pixel flipper. I recommend the Disney WoW pixel flipper and run it whenever you are not watching the panel. It may take a while but it will eventually fade just with watching other varied content. The pixel flipper with just speeds up the process.

Good luck.


----------



## B T C

I'm copying this post I made earlier from a different IR thread. I'm not sure how this is going to look.



marky12 said:


> *Image Retention Tools:*
> 
> https://s3.amazonaws.com/CleanScreen/index.html
> 
> http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/#.UuQmu2Qo4y4


Is the Clean Screen utility referenced in the first URL similar to the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper? I purchased a demo 55" VT60, which I realize is not the TV in question, and it has some static logo/scroller IR along the bottom of the screen. I'm hoping it's not actual burn in. Anyway, I can run the utility referenced in the first URL via a web browser on the TV and just curious if it's similar to other tools I've seen referenced. My TV seems to have a screen saver which kicks in after a couple of minutes when browsing, which kind of defeats the purpose, and I'm not sure whether it can be disabled.


----------



## Iceberg86300

B T C said:


> I'm copying this post I made earlier from a different IR thread. I'm not sure how this is going to look.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the Clean Screen utility referenced in the first URL similar to the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper? I purchased a demo 55" VT60, which I realize is not the TV in question, and it has some static logo/scroller IR along the bottom of the screen. I'm hoping it's not actual burn in. Anyway, I can run the utility referenced in the first URL via a web browser on the TV and just curious if it's similar to other tools I've seen referenced. My TV seems to have a screen saver which kicks in after a couple of minutes when browsing, which kind of defeats the purpose, and I'm not sure whether it can be disabled.


Not sure on the tools, but this is a common problem. Most flippers aren't video, but java or flash or whatever. Because it's not video you can't put it on a loop, and a lot of dvd players will auto off or Screensaver on you. I believe there is a thread listing BD players and whetheror not the timeout function can be disabled. Quick search should bring it up, or someone may have the name offhand. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## B T C

I ran the screen wiper today for 12+ hours. I'm not sure I can tell any difference, but maybe it's a little better. Just to add some info pertinent to my set, it is a 55" VT60 floor model that was a purchased about 1 week ago from a friend that owns a small electronics store in my hometown. There is a sticker on the back of the set that seems to indicate it was manufactured in July 2013. He estimated that the set had between 100-300 hours on it, but when I checked via the menu it was just over 1,000. I have some IR on the bottom of the screen where news scrollers and static logos are generally positioned. It's not terrible, but it bothers me nonetheless. I'm hoping it's not actual burn in, and that I can eventually get rid of it. Otherwise, the picture looks great to me. On the bright side, my fans might be more difficult to detect than the Red October.


----------



## Cuda1169

B T C said:


> I ran the screen wiper today for 12+ hours. I'm not sure I can tell any difference, but maybe it's a little better. Just to add some info pertinent to my set, it is a 55" VT60 floor model that was a purchased about 1 week ago from a friend that owns a small electronics store in my hometown. There is a sticker on the back of the set that seems to indicate it was manufactured in July 2013. He estimated that the set had between 100-300 hours on it, but when I checked via the menu it was just over 1,000. I have some IR on the bottom of the screen where news scrollers and static logos are generally positioned. It's not terrible, but it bothers me nonetheless. I'm hoping it's not actual burn in, and that I can eventually get rid of it. Otherwise, the picture looks great to me. On the bright side, my fans might be more difficult to detect than the Red October.


The screen wipe does nothing for my ST50, only a pixel flipper like the ones you listed above do anything for my IR. Plus my screen wiper times out after 15 minutes. I keep an old blu ray player around for use with my Disney WoW pixel flipper.


----------



## James Freeman

So many ppages...
Where is the basic guide?


----------



## Iceberg86300

James Freeman said:


> So many ppages...
> Where is the basic guide?


I think it has evolved. Just peruse the last couple pages, plus go back far enough to where someone threw up his own pixel flipper. Sorry, can't remember the name, but there are a few big (long boring) posts by me asking about it. Plus an epic "the best way not notice IR is not to go looking for it" battle after I explained that is better not to go putting up slides specifically to find IR that quite possible nobody else will ever see on your set. 

Or ask a question! N nobody bites. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## mcrommert

t-bus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I've had this TV for a few months. I burned it in properly with full screen content, no captioning-- and never cranked brightness or contrast.
> 
> Since the burn-in, I've been watching a lot of Netflix via the built-in client in the TV, mostly with CC on.
> Today, I pulled up some content that had a white screen, and noticed something horrifying-- Two faint, thick, blurry magenta bars 3/4 down my screen, centered, that fade off on the edges.
> 
> It's the damn captioning area, those bright yellow captions must have burned the pixels in that area. I also have a theory that when you use smart-tv apps, the pixel orbiter doesn't work, but that wouldn't help a lot here. Either way, Netflix must also always center their captions on fixed rows.
> 
> I watched about 5 hours of other content on VIVID (a setting I never use typically) and the bars appear a *little* fainter, but are still quite visible. (Now that I know they're there, I see them occasionally when watching actual content)
> 
> How screwed am I? Any chance this will go away completely? You can't even get these sets anymore...
> Sorry, but I feel like the CC decoder BUILT INTO THE TV'S Netflix App should attempt to render captions in a plasma-safe way.
> 
> I should have been more cautious, I guess, but I babied the set pretty hard in the beginning. I'm pretty livid at the moment.
> 
> You can see what I'm talking about in the following picture, despite some other artifacts that are caused by trying to photograph the TV: http://imgur.com/cRKgSH5



I have had the same issue on my television a Panasonic VIERA TC-P50U50. About a year ago two bars (not 3 like yours) showed up in exactly the same place. It seems like permanent burn in as it did not go away. AFter about 8 months of watching i had forgotten about it and looked at a solid color screen again...seems to be nearly gone with the faintest sign of it if you do a gray scale full screen. This is not a burn in that makes a huge difference when watching normal content, except in certain circumstances with solid colors. I would just try to forget about it until it eventually goes away.

EDIT: Realize yours are 2 bars too. The subtitle thing makes sense to me...i have started using mostly plex with large subtitles with no boxes so that could be the solution. I was super ocd about the burn in but it really is difficult to notice in most situations and my wife never saw it.


----------



## Chise

I know one way get rid of burn-ins a lot folks don't want to listen.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Chise said:


> I know one way get rid of burn-ins a lot folks don't want to listen.


Let's hear it! 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## James Freeman

Chise said:


> I know one way get rid of burn-ins a lot folks don't want to listen.


Getting rid of the plasma doesn't count... 


Question,
After 100-200 hours of phosphor settling, can I mainly watch 2.39:1 without having to babysit my TV?
I really hate the idea that I need to be THAT careful, and counting non-fullscreen hours etc,.


----------



## Iceberg86300

James Freeman said:


> Getting rid of the plasma doesn't count...
> 
> 
> Question,
> After 100-200 hours of phosphor settling, can I mainly watch 2.39:1 without having to babysit my TV?
> I really hate the idea that I need to be THAT careful, and counting non-fullscreen hours etc,.


Can't say you'll never have a problem because I don't know if you are going to only watch black bar movies but in my opinion:

You'll be fine. Problems only arise when viewing isn't varied, playing games for extended periods, or watching channels with nasty logos for extended periods. Oh, and if you have the set in torch mode. 

If you watch widescreen movies 75% of viewing time you'll likely get IR. Any of the above for 25-50% of viewing time will likely leave you with IR.

I petty much pulled those #s out of thin air. It will depend on your actual viewing time. 7.5 hours of 2.39 and 2.5 hours of 16x9 in a week wouldn't make anything noticeable. 75 and 25 hours in a week and you'll probably notice something, but a pixel flipper when not watching, and watching mainly 16x9 would get rid of it in short order. 

Same for the other stuff, but the smaller % serves to show that anything static WITHIN the picture (game HUDs, logos) will cause artifacts with severity depending on the opacity/brightness of the static image. Less opaque = more danger, brighter, in general, and brighter than the rest of the picture = more danger. 

Absolute worst is if you're watching widescreen with black bars on a cable channel with a logo in the black bar area. Few hours here and there is no problem, watching the ID channel 8 hours a day and you'll have a problem. Check recent posts (maybe the last 50?) for factual info on the ID channel and others. You can search the thread for "killing" and "husband" or "husband's" or "husbands". Don't need quotes, just make sure to use the "all words" or whatever option and pick one of the husband variants. (Not sure how the search function handles variations of words.)

Here's the post http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasma-flat-panel-displays/949107-master-burn-ir-break-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only-175.html#post25193737

Read around those posts. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Chise

James Freeman said:


> Getting rid of the plasma doesn't count...
> 
> 
> Question,
> After 100-200 hours of phosphor settling, can I mainly watch 2.39:1 without having to babysit my TV?
> I really hate the idea that I need to be THAT careful, and counting non-fullscreen hours etc,.


Change your power supply to your TV and change power outlets in your house plus I have two plasma TV's.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Chise said:


> Change your power supply to your TV and change power outlets in your house plus I have two plasma TV's.


TV power supply? Or the 110 feeding it? Just for clean power? 

Don't know how that would help burn in, voltages are pretty well regulated inside as far as most DC voltages, well, if the power supply is of sufficient quality. They pretty much all make noise of they are switch mode though. 

It's a very common practice in the hifi world to run power from a completely seperate breaker though. AC gets pretty noisy in a house with all the electronics plugged in. Acceptable voltage a also varies more than one would think. Even running a seperate circuit isn't usually enough for hifi gear, usually is seperate circuit + how much you want to spend on a power conditioner/block. Amps and other audio stuff that tap right off the transformers can have quite a difference if the power was really dirty before hand. 

So what's the deal? All I've talked about is basic stuff, but don't even know what you mean by changing the power supply lol. Plus why all the outlets in the house? Anything special? What does that give you? 

Details! 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Chise

Iceberg86300 said:


> TV power supply? Or the 110 feeding it? Just for clean power?
> 
> Don't know how that would help burn in, voltages are pretty well regulated inside as far as most DC voltages, well, if the power supply is of sufficient quality. They pretty much all make noise of they are switch mode though.
> 
> It's a very common practice in the hifi world to run power from a completely seperate breaker though. AC gets pretty noisy in a house with all the electronics plugged in. Acceptable voltage a also varies more than one would think. Even running a seperate circuit isn't usually enough for hifi gear, usually is seperate circuit + how much you want to spend on a power conditioner/block. Amps and other audio stuff that tap right off the transformers can have quite a difference if the power was really dirty before hand.
> 
> So what's the deal? All I've talked about is basic stuff, but don't even know what you mean by changing the power supply lol. Plus why all the outlets in the house? Anything special? What does that give you?
> 
> Details!
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


To be honest Steve I did not believe this myself till one of my friends did a demo. over my house, I was shock, So I got dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech power outlets with in 4 weeks my burn-ins went away on my screen I have a clear crisp picture now, this is step 2 and I have 4 more to go anything else I pm you.


----------



## James Freeman

Chise said:


> To be honest Steve I did not believe this myself till one of my friends did a demo. over my house, I was shock, So I got dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech power outlets with in 4 weeks my burn-ins went away on my screen I have a clear crisp picture now, this is step 2 and I have 4 more to go anything else I pm you.


I am an electrical engineer,

Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.

These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.









So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.


Trust in pixel flipper!


----------



## Iceberg86300

James Freeman said:


> I am an electrical engineer,
> 
> Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
> This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
> Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.
> 
> These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
> Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.
> 
> 
> Trust in pixel flipper!


Can't poorly designed power supplies in various consumer devices impart some ripple in the circuit they are connected to? Unfortunately I don't have 100x probe for my scope of I'd just check it myself. Not saying it makes a difference, a well designed circuit is going to be pretty well regulated on the DC side, but I thought any ripple going into the transformer that feeds any outputs like in an amplifier could make difference, even if it's small. 

I know switch mode puts out some nasty RF that can really mess with stuff. But anyone designing a switcher in audio products should be able pick the switching frequency that least affects anything else in the product. 

Just learning here. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## James Freeman

You could scope the dc rail but I doubt you'd see anything but a flat line,
unless you bought the PSU (any chinese kind) on ebay for 3.99$. 

I agree that poorly designed switcher can wreak havoc in audio equipment (RF, harmonics, oscillation, ripple, etc...).
Although I trust electronic engineers whom by now should have perfected the art of switching.

Definitely closer to the heart of the beast, but still nothing to do with phosphor decay and IR once again...


----------



## Chise

James Freeman said:


> I am an electrical engineer,
> 
> Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
> This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
> Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.
> 
> These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
> Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.
> 
> 
> Trust in pixel flipper!


Slim I don't give dam if don't believe it and big **** you have degree wow I'm really scared.


----------



## Iceberg86300

James Freeman said:


> You could scope the dc rail but I doubt you'd see anything but a flat line,
> unless you bought the PSU (any chinese kind) on ebay for 3.99$.
> 
> I agree that poorly designed switcher can wreak havoc in audio equipment (RF, harmonics, oscillation, ripple, etc...).
> Although I trust electronic engineers whom by now should have perfected the art of switching.
> 
> Definitely closer to the heart of the beast, but still nothing to do with phosphor decay and IR once again...


Yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer with a concentration in Mechatronics, I don't usually deal with any AC. Pretty much all DC low voltage unless I need "fake" AC low voltage for something. Only thing I've needed that for was measuring the resistance of a wide band O2 sensor element temperature control. 

I need an isolator for my scope as well before I do any thing with AC line voltage. I use an old monster of a BK precision switching lab supply. The floating ground is great for hooking up my RC computerized charger to the computer for logging. Great charger but they didn't do anything for the ground loop created when a power supply and computer share the same ground. Without a usb isolator, PS with floating ground (or negative I guess is more appropriate, but I hardly ever use the feature for its intended function), hacking a BT module into the charger, or using a laptop on battery or powering the charger with a battery, they like to fry the usb-serial board in the charger. If you're lucky anyway, as theoretically it could pull charging current ~20 amps through usb, letting all the magic smoke out. 

Anyway, when I finally buy a house I'll still have a dedicated circuit for AV gear, with some quality receptacles / power cords. Definitely won't be using any exotic metal plated stuff though. I use all Signal Cable interconnects/cables/power. About the same cost as Monster stuff, but instead of buying a name I'm buying quality custom cables. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## olyteddy

Chise said:


> To be honest Steve I did not believe this myself till one of my friends did a demo. over my house, I was shock, So I got dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech power outlets with in 4 weeks my burn-ins went away on my screen I have a clear crisp picture now, this is step 2 and I have 4 more to go anything else I pm you.


AA Step 2:



> "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."



I assume you have a very well lubricated Serpent too...


----------



## Chise

olyteddy said:


> AA Step 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you have a very well lubricated Serpent too...


Well they way I look at this folks on AVS just don't know and they never tried it, and for me, it did not cost me a lot money plus my gear is running fine, do you hear me complaining burn- ins anymore and finally I have not brought a new TV in three years.


----------



## olyteddy

Chise said:


> Well they way I look at this folks on AVS just don't know and they never tried it, and for me, it did not cost me a lot money plus my gear is running fine, do you hear me complaining burn- ins anymore and finally I have not brought a new TV in three years.


Well to me the 'S' in AVS supposedly stands for 'Science' and when people report remarkable and immaculate cures I must call BS. I don't doubt you have made your personal peace with IR *BUT* expensive overpriced power cords and such had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Iceberg86300

olyteddy said:


> Well to me the 'S' in AVS supposedly stands for 'Science' and when people report remarkable and immaculate cures I must call BS. I don't doubt you have made your personal peace with IR *BUT* expensive overpriced power cords and such had nothing to do with it.


I don't think so either, but who knows? I sure am not going to install any crazy expensive stuff without proof, nor would I recommend it to anyone, but I can't say it's impossible. Being an engineer and grounded in science and logic I can get pretty close though. 

Like I said before, I give all my cable money to signal cable. Very good quality, and last time I checked you could even get silver cables for around 200 bucks. Only problem I had were the interconnects I bought around 2003, the RCAs were super tight, and I ended up slipping the termination wrap on the plug body. Well that and I specified the wrong speaker termination on the amp side of the speaker cables I bought at the same time. But that's totally my fault. 

Bought some interconnects a few years ago (cheaper versions from what I had) for a birthday present, and they worked out great for my buddy. I highly recommend them. No frills website or marketing, quality vs price speaks for themselves. Plus you can call and he'll make you just about anything you want. 

Also, like I said, I'm not going to hesitate to put my gear on 1 or 2 dedicated circuits, with quality outlets and maybe some kind of extra protection on those circuits just to keep the expensive gear somewhat isolated from the rest of the house/any surge sources. 

But quality stuff doesn't mean exotic materials and $$$$$$$$ for me. I have very good hearing, but in a blind test I picked the $200 cables over the multi thousand dollar ones. Someone that can afford that stuff, and buys it, will almost always say it sounds better/looks better. How could you not when you drop a couple grand on a cable like HDMI that only carries digital? Digital is digital, as long as the terminations and the contacts are good I don't care if the cable is made up of rhodium plated solid gold strands all encased in 2 inch lead with liquid nitrogen cores with each piece of lead encased with 4 inch (insert some crazy exotic dielectric / shielding here, I've run out of crazy stuff to say lol). Yes that was supposed to sound like I am off my rocker! If what you're connecting has good contacts and terminations in the devices, and the HDMI signal produced from a source plays nice with the sink, then a $5 cable from Fry's (be sure to buy in the computer department because the cables there are way cheaper than the same exact cable being sold under a different SKU in the HT dept) will perform perfectly well as long as the standard you need is met or exceeded. 

Same with coax digital and optical. Optical COULD be tricky as there are different types such as single or multi mode, but I've only seen that kind of designation for fibre networks. I don't think you can buy the "wrong cable" for HT, it's either a standard or started as a gentlemen agreement that no one in their right minds w would go against now. 

The only things I would consider paying a bit more for are analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Purely for shielding purposes. But you could spend a grand on some well shielded interconnects and make render ask that extra cash useless by having a gang of cabling, or bundling interconnects with speaker cables. I have seen this done more than a few times, by integrators no less. Calibrating or recalibrating someone's display / audio that was installed by a custom installer/integrator. Basically getting the same sound out of thousand dollar cables that you would get out of a run of the mill shielded cable at a 10th of the price if they are installed correctly. Quite unbelievable. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Chise

Iceberg86300 said:


> I don't think so either, but who knows? I sure am not going to install any crazy expensive stuff without proof, nor would I recommend it to anyone, but I can't say it's impossible. Being an engineer and grounded in science and logic I can get pretty close though.
> 
> Like I said before, I give all my cable money to signal cable. Very good quality, and last time I checked you could even get silver cables for around 200 bucks. Only problem I had were the interconnects I bought around 2003, the RCAs were super tight, and I ended up slipping the termination wrap on the plug body. Well that and I specified the wrong speaker termination on the amp side of the speaker cables I bought at the same time. But that's totally my fault.
> 
> Bought some interconnects a few years ago (cheaper versions from what I had) for a birthday present, and they worked out great for my buddy. I highly recommend them. No frills website or marketing, quality vs price speaks for themselves. Plus you can call and he'll make you just about anything you want.
> 
> Also, like I said, I'm not going to hesitate to put my gear on 1 or 2 dedicated circuits, with quality outlets and maybe some kind of extra protection on those circuits just to keep the expensive gear somewhat isolated from the rest of the house/any surge sources.
> 
> But quality stuff doesn't mean exotic materials and $$$$$$$$ for me. I have very good hearing, but in a blind test I picked the $200 cables over the multi thousand dollar ones. Someone that can afford that stuff, and buys it, will almost always say it sounds better/looks better. How could you not when you drop a couple grand on a cable like HDMI that only carries digital? Digital is digital, as long as the terminations and the contacts are good I don't care if the cable is made up of rhodium plated solid gold strands all encased in 2 inch lead with liquid nitrogen cores with each piece of lead encased with 4 inch (insert some crazy exotic dielectric / shielding here, I've run out of crazy stuff to say lol). Yes that was supposed to sound like I am off my rocker! If what you're connecting has good contacts and terminations in the devices, and the HDMI signal produced from a source plays nice with the sink, then a $5 cable from Fry's (be sure to buy in the computer department because the cables there are way cheaper than the same exact cable being sold under a different SKU in the HT dept) will perform perfectly well as long as the standard you need is met or exceeded.
> 
> Same with coax digital and optical. Optical COULD be tricky as there are different types such as single or multi mode, but I've only seen that kind of designation for fibre networks. I don't think you can buy the "wrong cable" for HT, it's either a standard or started as a gentlemen agreement that no one in their right minds w would go against now.
> 
> The only things I would consider paying a bit more for are analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Purely for shielding purposes. But you could spend a grand on some well shielded interconnects and make render ask that extra cash useless by having a gang of cabling, or bundling interconnects with speaker cables. I have seen this done more than a few times, by integrators no less. Calibrating or recalibrating someone's display / audio that was installed by a custom installer/integrator. Basically getting the same sound out of thousand dollar cables that you would get out of a run of the mill shielded cable at a 10th of the price if they are installed correctly. Quite unbelievable.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


That's why you should have good friends not freeloaders.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Chise said:


> That's why you should have good friends not freeloaders.


???????? Who said I have freeloaders as friends and not good friends? 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Plasma5300

Will turning up the color setting on my plasma to get a more vibrant look hurt it in any way? Will it decrease lifespan or fade colors faster? thats if colors fade on plasma tvs?  Im clueless about plasmas


----------



## Chise

Iceberg86300 said:


> ???????? Who said I have freeloaders as friends and not good friends?
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


My point is I have few friends are electricians and some work HT.


----------



## B T C

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Disney WOW 2-disc blu-Ray set for the pixel flipper, and I'm adding the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition so I can get free shipping. Do you need to know what you're doing, access to calibration tools & the service menu etc. to get benefits out of these calibration discs?


----------



## Iceberg86300

Plasma5300 said:


> Will turning up the color setting on my plasma to get a more vibrant look hurt it in any way? Will it decrease lifespan or fade colors faster? thats if colors fade on plasma tvs?  Im clueless about plasmas


Ok, need some more info. Make and model of your set?

By color setting do you mean the COLOR setting (a single adjustment bar or value)? Or something deeper in the menu (usually) that is usually called color space but flipping to custom allows you to "turn up" or "turn down" at least your primaries, usually primaries and secondaries on newer sets. Pretty sure it's the first one. 

On that point, what is your color space set to? Usually has auto, native, custom. 



Chise said:


> My point is I have few friends are electricians and some work HT.


No reason to call my friends freeloaders man! Although, one is pretty damn cheap :rotf . But I was kinda the freeloader there. Helped the guy pay off his house for almost 10 years through renting a room. THAT PLACE would be the perfect A/B test for a dedicated circuit. 

Is cool you know people that can and will give deals. But not everyone knows somebody. I can isf calibrate for friends, but that doesn't give them anything tangible. 



B T C said:


> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Disney WOW 2-disc blu-Ray set for the pixel flipper, and I'm adding the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition so I can get free shipping. Do you need to know what you're doing, access to calibration tools & the service menu etc. to get benefits out of these calibration discs?


shouldn't need the service menu nowadays. Most adjustments can be made in the user menu. 

The disc is very good at explaining things of you want to learn, and will walk you through a basic "front panel" calibration. Stuff like brightness, contrast, tint, etc.

You really need a meter to get accurate white balance and adjust the CMS, but the disk allows you to get pretty close. I would definitely recommend the purchase. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Plasma5300

Iceberg86300 said:


> Ok, need some more info. Make and model of your set?
> 
> By color setting do you mean the COLOR setting (a single adjustment bar or value)? Or something deeper in the menu (usually) that is usually called color space but flipping to custom allows you to "turn up" or "turn down" at least your primaries, usually primaries and secondaries on newer sets. Pretty sure it's the first one.
> 
> On that point, what is your color space set to? Usually has auto, native, custom.
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to call my friends freeloaders man! Although, one is pretty damn cheap :rotf . But I was kinda the freeloader there. Helped the guy pay off his house for almost 10 years through renting a room. THAT PLACE would be the perfect A/B test for a dedicated circuit.
> 
> Is cool you know people that can and will give deals. But not everyone knows somebody. I can isf calibrate for friends, but that doesn't give them anything tangible.
> 
> 
> 
> shouldn't need the service menu nowadays. Most adjustments can be made in the user menu.
> 
> The disc is very good at explaining things of you want to learn, and will walk you through a basic "front panel" calibration. Stuff like brightness, contrast, tint, etc.
> 
> You really need a meter to get accurate white balance and adjust the CMS, but the disk allows you to get pretty close. I would definitely recommend the purchase.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Samsung pn51f5300b , Im talking about the color setting slider, It was set to 50 on standard but I moved it to 54. Just wondering if it can hurt the set by have the colors burn too bright


----------



## Iceberg86300

Plasma5300 said:


> Samsung pn51f5300b , Im talking about the color setting slider, It was set to 50 on standard but I moved it to 54. Just wondering if it can hurt the set by have the colors burn too bright


Ah, 4 points is nothing. Worst you'll do is have over saturated colors. Best will be still under saturated colors if they were under in the first place, or close to perfect saturation.

Be sure the color space is set to auto. If it was on native drop the color back to 50 and check it out. Sammy usually does a decent job with auto. Not exactly sure how they set it, but you can get really good color on various material and have it off a bit on others. So plus 5 may make one thing look good, and over saturate the other stuff. 

But again, 5 clicks is really small, 8% off center, 4% of full scale. 

There is a monster/ISF calibration wizard DVD floating around that was given out at their classes, really basic guide that runs you through a quick front panel. It's really nice for color and tint. You don't get color bars, instead you get 3 girls, one with a ton of makeup that looks crazy over saturated, one is "normal," and the 3rd is made up to be way under saturated. With that screen up you adjust until to make the girl in the middle look human. This is mostly an FYI, as your TV has some nice features. 

You should set the brightness, contrast, and color temp first. Test disc or slides would be ideal, the avs disc/materials are free, just need to figure out what format you need for your gear. 

Second best would be the expert patterns built into the TV, one greyscale pattern for brightness/contrast, and one color pattern for setting color and tint. For color temp it is usually warm or warm 2. If you can find a review it should tell you what setting gets you close to D6500.

Now you'll use the RGB only setting on your TV. You either disable red and green, or select blue. SMPTE color bars are easier to work with if you can grab some slides from the forum, but the built in pattern will work, it's just a lot more busy and I'm not sure what the extra stuff is for. 

For color you'll be looking at the blue/white rectangles/boxes, for tint you'll be looking at the aqua/purplish (actual color names are escaping me.) 

When you flip into blue only you'll have the blue, and the white sections will turn blue, the aqua and purple will also turn blue, so be sure not to mix up what was what before flipping to blue only.

Now adjust the color until the original blue and white (which is now blue) match each other. 

Go through the same process using tint for the original aqua/purple which are now blue. 

These 2 adjustments are interactive, so you'll have to make it an iterative process until you get as close as possible on both. 

Feel free to ask any questions. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Plasma5300

Iceberg86300 said:


> Ah, 4 points is nothing. Worst you'll do is have over saturated colors. Best will be still under saturated colors if they were under in the first place, or close to perfect saturation.
> 
> Be sure the color space is set to auto. If it was on native drop the color back to 50 and check it out. Sammy usually does a decent job with auto. Not exactly sure how they set it, but you can get really good color on various material and have it off a bit on others. So plus 5 may make one thing look good, and over saturate the other stuff.
> 
> But again, 5 clicks is really small, 8% off center, 4% of full scale.
> 
> There is a monster/ISF calibration wizard DVD floating around that was given out at their classes, really basic guide that runs you through a quick front panel. It's really nice for color and tint. You don't get color bars, instead you get 3 girls, one with a ton of makeup that looks crazy over saturated, one is "normal," and the 3rd is made up to be way under saturated. With that screen up you adjust until to make the girl in the middle look human. This is mostly an FYI, as your TV has some nice features.
> 
> You should set the brightness, contrast, and color temp first. Test disc or slides would be ideal, the avs disc/materials are free, just need to figure out what format you need for your gear.
> 
> Second best would be the expert patterns built into the TV, one greyscale pattern for brightness/contrast, and one color pattern for setting color and tint. For color temp it is usually warm or warm 2. If you can find a review it should tell you what setting gets you close to D6500.
> 
> Now you'll use the RGB only setting on your TV. You either disable red and green, or select blue. SMPTE color bars are easier to work with if you can grab some slides from the forum, but the built in pattern will work, it's just a lot more busy and I'm not sure what the extra stuff is for.
> 
> For color you'll be looking at the blue/white rectangles/boxes, for tint you'll be looking at the aqua/purplish (actual color names are escaping me.)
> 
> When you flip into blue only you'll have the blue, and the white sections will turn blue, the aqua and purple will also turn blue, so be sure not to mix up what was what before flipping to blue only.
> 
> Now adjust the color until the original blue and white (which is now blue) match each other.
> 
> Go through the same process using tint for the original aqua/purple which are now blue.
> 
> These 2 adjustments are interactive, so you'll have to make it an iterative process until you get as close as possible on both.
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


I have the Disney WOW calibration blu ray , how good is it for calibration? I havent really used it yet


----------



## Iceberg86300

I haven't used that one. As long as hit has the few patterns you need (petty sure it does) then it will work just fine. Also, every THX bluray release has the basics for a simple Cal, and I believe it goes through sound as well. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## James Freeman

Plasma5300 said:


> I have the Disney WOW calibration blu ray , how good is it for calibration? I havent really used it yet


It is the same as AVS709HD which is free and has Calibration windows for meters which WOW lacks.
WOW has a Pixel Flipper for plasma (you can use USB stick & slides instead), some movie clips to see how you've done, it goes through Audio too.
It also comes with Blue filter for saturation calibration, But...

If you want a calibration that is a step (or several) closer to professional level, buy an i1 Display Pro colorimeter.
A meter will bring you where "eyeballing" will never be able to, well worth the investment.

If you already bought a Plasma, don't skip on calibration, it's like buying a Maserati and never going above 50mph.


----------



## Plasma5300

James Freeman said:


> It is the same as AVS709HD which is free and has Calibration windows for meters which WOW lacks.
> WOW has a Pixel Flipper for plasma (you can use USB stick & slides instead), some movie clips to see how you've done, it goes through Audio too.
> It also comes with Blue filter for saturation calibration, But...
> 
> If you want a calibration that is a step (or several) closer to professional level, buy an i1 Display Pro colorimeter.
> A meter will bring you where "eyeballing" will never be able to, well worth the investment.
> 
> If you already bought a Plasma, don't skip on calibration, it's like buying a Maserati and never going above 50mph.


Ok thank you! Also why is standard picture setting labeled as energy star efficient? And dynamic and movie not?


----------



## Iceberg86300

Plasma5300 said:


> Ok thank you! Also why is standard picture setting labeled as energy star efficient? And dynamic and movie not?


Good question! With direct view like plasma I think it would be pretty hard to adjust the picture based on ambient light. On my led backlit it will run the back light all over the place based on the ambient light. 

Don't quote me on this, but when going to standard the set may enable all the power saver features, like auto off if there hasn't been a command sent to the TV in a certain amount of time. Overall brightness may be reduced in standard as well. 

I use Cal day and Cal night on my LCD. All processing and extra features turned off, including the eco stuff in the setup portion of the menu. I was messing with some power feature the other day that was on/off, it was already set to off, but when I clicked it to see the options and selected off again the TV automatically went into standard mode. So it's possible the eco/power saving features are only available in standard mode, although they can be turned off in standard mode as well. 

Plus dynamic and movie modes unlock a couple features in the picture adjusting menu, so in standard the TV may skip all the code for those features in the processor, or if that stuff is handled is handled by a different chip(s) the main processor may put those to sleep, or turn them off altogether. (My set is an es, so few years old, yours may have different features)

You can try looking in the paper manual or checking the website, I vaguely remember an overview of the eco modes / energy star stuff. Might have been in the on TV manual. 

Gotta go do some experimenting! 

Regards, 
Steve
**************edit*************
BD wise is the setting that reverts the picture mode to standard. 

Standard and movie are the modes that have the advanced picture options. 

ECO junk works on the plasma with the minimum cell light. (Not totally junk for plasma, I believe the plasma specific stuff like pixel orbiting is in the eco solutions part of the menu, and auto off based on no signal, no inputs, static image for plasmas is there)

I defaulted my standard mode with all eco optics off, and after the reset the eco sensor was turned on, and the backlight reduced. Would be min cell light on the plasma. If you touch the light setting in standard it automatically turns the eco sensor off.


----------



## Plasma5300

Iceberg86300 said:


> Good question! With direct view like plasma I think it would be pretty hard to adjust the picture based on ambient light. On my led backlit it will run the back light all over the place based on the ambient light.
> 
> Don't quote me on this, but when going to standard the set may enable all the power saver features, like auto off if there hasn't been a command sent to the TV in a certain amount of time. Overall brightness may be reduced in standard as well.
> 
> I use Cal day and Cal night on my LCD. All processing and extra features turned off, including the eco stuff in the setup portion of the menu. I was messing with some power feature the other day that was on/off, it was already set to off, but when I clicked it to see the options and selected off again the TV automatically went into standard mode. So it's possible the eco/power saving features are only available in standard mode, although they can be turned off in standard mode as well.
> 
> Plus dynamic and movie modes unlock a couple features in the picture adjusting menu, so in standard the TV may skip all the code for those features in the processor, or if that stuff is handled is handled by a different chip(s) the main processor may put those to sleep, or turn them off altogether. (My set is an es, so few years old, yours may have different features)
> 
> You can try looking in the paper manual or checking the website, I vaguely remember an overview of the eco modes / energy star stuff. Might have been in the on TV manual.
> 
> Gotta go do some experimenting!
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


I have been using standard mode since I got the tv. Originally while breaking in the tv. I now have about 1000 hours give or take so now im interested in calibration. Not sure though as my plasma in standard with a few eyeball tweaks here and there blows my older lcd out of the water! Just curious if I can get a better picture. 
My settings are currently
Cell 17
Contrast 85
Brightness 43
Color 55
Shapness 20
Dynamic contrast off
Black tone off
Some other stuff in auto
I havent dug deeper than that though Im working up the nerve. Guess i can always experiment and go back if need be. Haha. More than half the settings I dont really understand. Im betting if one of you guys that know calibration with trained eyes look at my set that I would get yelled at for not getting the best out of it. 
The only thing hooked up to it is a Sony Ps4 console. Netflix, gaming, and Bluray from time to time but mostly netflix. I can say I definitely enjoy gaming on this tv.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Plasma5300 said:


> I have been using standard mode since I got the tv. Originally while breaking in the tv. I now have about 1000 hours give or take so now im interested in calibration. Not sure though as my plasma in standard with a few eyeball tweaks here and there blows my older lcd out of the water! Just curious if I can get a better picture.
> My settings are currently
> Cell 17
> Contrast 85
> Brightness 43
> Color 55
> Shapness 20
> Dynamic contrast off
> Black tone off
> Some other stuff in auto
> I havent dug deeper than that though Im working up the nerve. Guess i can always experiment and go back if need be. Haha. More than half the settings I dont really understand. Im betting if one of you guys that know calibration with trained eyes look at my set that I would get yelled at for not getting the best out of it.
> The only thing hooked up to it is a Sony Ps4 console. Netflix, gaming, and Bluray from time to time but mostly netflix. I can say I definitely enjoy gaming on this tv.


Check out my last post, I edited after a bit of research on the emanual on the TV.

Your basic "front panel" calibration (changing only the settings that were in user menus 15 years ago) will get you pretty damn close. Full calibration will get you a better picture, but how much better depends heavily on how close one of the picture modes and color temp combinations get you to the standard. 

I haven't used the AVS709HD disc or tools, not sure if there are explanations or not. The Spears and Munsil disk would likely be perfect for you as it gets into the science and explains all the adjustments. But if you want to dig around and learn then you can't beat the free AVS709HD tools. 

Like I said before, look for a review of your set (may be a different size, usually only one is reviewed). If the review is worth anything then pre calibration measurements should be in the review. Usually movie mode with a warm color temp is the closest, and then that setting will be the starting point of the calibration, whether just a front panel or using a meter. 

So if the best pre Cal mode isn't too far off then you can likely get away with just a front panel. AVS709HD, Spears and Munsil if you want to learn as you go, or any other calibration disc/source will give you all the patterns you need for a front panel, and also numerous patterns that would be used with a meter. 

I can tell you that if you've never had a full Cal, or used others settings, or never put a TV into the mode that is close to the standards, then after a Cal you'll think "this looks like $h!t !" Most people are used to a picture with bad greyscale, crappy color decoder, etc from torch mode presets or the wrong picture mode. So what you think is "right" could be far from the standard. After the Cal you'll probably be a bit unhappy, but that will fade quickly as you watch it more. 

Now, while color accuracy, white balance, gamma, color space, etc, basically anything you need a meter for, are important, if you have a preset that is close then the front panel controls become waaaay more important because to get a good picture you have to adjust them in your viewing conditions. 

Another important point: I'm not a fan of plugging in others settings for a front panel or full Cal, as viewing conditions change, panels/electronics can be different, etc. If there is a review on Cnet you'll a little safer as they do their pre Cal and Cal in a dark room. (Which, by the way, is a horrible way to watch your set. When viewing in darkness it is a great idea to put in some d6500 accent lighting that is adjustable. You want d6500 light because that is what a TV is calibrated to, and it won't mess with the picture. If you do this you want a light source that has full spectral output, there are CF d6500 bulbs that only output part of the spectrum. That's a Google question)

A walk through if the defaults are close:

-You'll use a few grey scale pluge patterns to set brightness and contrast. This is iterative as the 2 interact. 
-Now move on to color and tint using a SMPTE color bar patten. No filter is needed because you can set the TV to blue only mode. (Filters aren't very accurate either as they may filter the wrong wavelength your TV is putting out) these are also iterative as they interact. 
-Set sharpness using one of many different patterns. Same kind of patterns are used to check geometry and any overscan

Rinse and repeat as everything but sharpness will affect each other. 

Do the same for your viewing conditions. Usually day and night. Sammy isn't contracted with ISF so you don't get default lockable modes. If you're brave you can go into the service menu to activate the Cal-Day/Cal-Night feature. You'll need to check the net to make sure the option is available and where it is. Might need a hex remote code to unlock an advanced menu, been awhile since I turned mine on. WARNING: after picking a menu and getting sent into its sub menu (settings are grouped in a few different top levels) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE LEFT/RIGHT KEYS TO NAVIGATE the menus. Up and down only, there are settings that are changed with a left/right and you could end up with a brick. My menu has 3 columns, so it's really easy to forget and tap the right key to jump over to the next column. 

With a meter and software you can set the color space, set greyscale to d6500, measure gamma and use the tiny adjustment window to try to improve it. (you can "set" these, but for the vast majority it is a get as close as you can deal)

Don't get sucked into a Spyder 25 thousand pro meter (that was a dig! Even the Spyder 4 PRO which I think is current and advertises well for a $250 meter, is a piece of junk).

Hope that helps you out. If you find a review on your set or it's cousins let me know and I'll take a look at it. 

Edit: forgot to tell you to feel free to ask any questions on this, or other settings. 


Regards, 
Steve


----------



## RetroGiant

My ST60 has about 2800 hours on it. No burn-in but it literally gets INSTANT image retention. Directv menu up for 20 seconds, image retention. And this is with contrast at like 60. It goes away pretty quick but its still super annoying. Why, with this many hours on the tv would it still get image retention so fast? It should be pretty resistant by now. I've tried different panel brightnesses (low-med-high), that didn't help other than panel brightness high lessened the effect of line bleed. Am I just stuck with dealing with temporary IR for the life of this tv? I'm assuming so.


----------



## James Freeman

Question about phosphor aging.
Why the various shades of grey (including white) slides if we can use only 3 most effective ones (Red, Green, Blue) where ABL is not active AND we get the fastest and most even aging of the phosphors?

Why not just blast the TV with R,G,B at 100% Contrast, High Panel Brightness, Vivid mode? What are the cons?
That should settle the phosphors (and everything else) in no time.


----------



## RetroGiant

James Freeman said:


> Question about phosphor aging.
> Why the various shades of grey (including white) slides if we can use only 3 most effective ones (Red, Green, Blue) where ABL is not active AND we get the fastest and most even aging of the phosphors?
> 
> Why not just blast the TV with R,G,B at 100% Contrast, High Panel Brightness, Vivid mode? What are the cons?
> That should settle the phosphors (and everything else) in no time.


I was messing with my disney wow disc the other day and while running the pixel flipper I tested high panel brightness vs medium and for whatever reason high panel brightness was never as bright no matter what contrast or gamma setting I used. ABL always kicked in and it was always dimmer than when I used medium panel brightness. So the whole, use max contrast/vivid/high panel brightness/etc, doesn't really work, at least not on the pixel flipper alone. I guess it would be a matter of finding the threshold on the max settings possible before ABL kicked in. Then again I simply used normal HBO style content to "break in" my tv.


----------



## James Freeman

Thanks.

I see that ABL does not work when a single color image is on the screen no matter at what contrast or panel brightness.
The plane color slides are the brightest.

So the question is why not just use 3 slides of Red, Green, Blue?
What are the grey slides are for ???? 
The grey slides are just ineffective and waste time that can be spent more on the RGB slides that do most if not all of the phosphor settling.


----------



## B T C

Does the Disney WOW pixel flipper cycle through all colors? I'm really hoping it will do something for the IR on my VT60, assuming it's not actual burn in. The built in screen wiper doesn't seem to do anything.


----------



## RetroGiant

B T C said:


> Does the Disney WOW pixel flipper cycle through all colors? I'm really hoping it will do something for the IR on my VT60, assuming it's not actual burn in. The built in screen wiper doesn't seem to do anything.


Out of everything out there for IR, the pixel flipper is probably your best bet in helping get rid of IR.


----------



## James Freeman

B T C said:


> Does the Disney WOW pixel flipper cycle through all colors? I'm really hoping it will do something for the IR on my VT60, assuming it's not actual burn in. The built in screen wiper doesn't seem to do anything.


WOW pixel flipper will trigger ABL and limit the pixel brightness, this is not what we want to age the phosphor.
Your best bet is to use R,G,B only slides (they do not trigger ABL) with Max Contrast & Saturation, Vivid Mode, and Panel Brightness on High.

Create Full HD Jpeg, Red, Green, Blue slides. Copy to USB.
Enter Media Player (on the TV), now set Preset on Custom.
Contrast: 100
Brightness: does not matter
Color:100
Vivid Color: On
Adv. Panel Luminance: High.
Everything else: Off

Slideshow settings:
Interval: Long.
Repeat: On.
Everything else: Off/Normal.


No other settings I have tried use more power (measured with a clamp meter) nor are brighter OR more intensive for the phosphor.


----------



## B T C

What is ABL? Is it some sort of brightness limiter? I've already ordered the WOW dvd, so I'll be giving the pixel flipper a shot. If it doesn't work, maybe I'll try doing what you have suggested, although I'm not sure I have the know how. How would you create a full HD JPEG of those colors? Does it just have to be 1920x1080 in size? Is that what makes it HD? If so, perhaps Microsoft Paint would work.


----------



## James Freeman

B T C said:


> What is ABL? Is it some sort of brightness limiter? I've already ordered the WOW dvd, so I'll be giving the pixel flipper a shot. If it doesn't work, maybe I'll try doing what you have suggested, although I'm not sure I have the know how. How would you create a full HD JPEG of those colors? Does it just have to be 1920x1080 in size? Is that what makes it HD? If so, perhaps Microsoft Paint would work.


Automatic Brightness Limiter.
Yes, on all of your questions.

I also have WOW, it's a good tool to set few basic settings but not much more (ie. no calibration windows).
Nothing that the free (and extremely good) AVS709HD can't do.

Image Retention is uneven phosphor aging, and the only thing that can be done is to age it some more and hope the the brighter parts will become as dim as the more aged parts (catch up).
You can understand why ABL is not desirable for full phosphor activation or aging, its just slows things down but keeps the room/TV cool.


----------



## B T C

Assuming it's not actual burn in, it sounds like it should eventually go away from just watching television.

I bought WOW primarily for the pixel flipper. I also threw in the 2nd Edition Spears and Munsil blu ray for some additional calibration tools, and free shipping.


----------



## Iceberg86300

garnettrules21 said:


> My ST60 has about 2800 hours on it. No burn-in but it literally gets INSTANT image retention. Directv menu up for 20 seconds, image retention. And this is with contrast at like 60. It goes away pretty quick but its still super annoying. Why, with this many hours on the tv would it still get image retention so fast? It should be pretty resistant by now. I've tried different panel brightnesses (low-med-high), that didn't help other than panel brightness high lessened the effect of line bleed. Am I just stuck with dealing with temporary IR for the life of this tv? I'm assuming so.


Second instance I've heard about this. I'd contact Panny. This not normal. 

Also saw it with someone that reset their pioneer. The voltage are rather sensitive and he didn't know what he was doing. 


James Freeman said:


> Question about phosphor aging.
> Why the various shades of grey (including white) slides if we can use only 3 most effective ones (Red, Green, Blue) where ABL is not active AND we get the fastest and most even aging of the phosphors?
> 
> Why not just blast the TV with R,G,B at 100% Contrast, High Panel Brightness, Vivid mode? What are the cons?
> That should settle the phosphors (and everything else) in no time.


Greyscale slides are created by combining equal RGB. That is why grey scale slides are used for white balance and calibrating to d6500. Also great for aging. Your greyscale may be horrible, but it doesn't really matter. The various IRE levels are put together with various amounts of color. 100 IRE will command 100% of each color, 90 IRE 90% color. So using a 100 IRE slide for 5 minutes would be equal to running 100% of R, G, B, for 5 minutes each. 

As far as I can tell (not up 100% on plasma tech) the flippers shock the cells, which I believe is thought to be more effective at getting rid of residuals in the cells. No clue if this is backed up by anything or not. 

When I got my ISF cert in 05 or 06 the consensus was to "season" a plasma using a 70-90 IRE slide (can't remember if there was a hard number). The same method was recommended for getting rid of IR.

There is a bit of a flaw in all the methods, each color ages at a different rate, especially when young. Not a big deal when performing accelerated ageing using patterns before a calibration because the whole point is to get out of the phase in which the cells change more quickly. Then calibration can be performed to get the correct white balance. 

But the cells are still going to age at a different rate, although it is nowhere near the rates you see with young cells. The more you use patterns or flippers the more pronounced the uneven ageing will be, although again, so nowhere near what is seen on young cells. This is why recals are performed more often on plasmas. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Iceberg86300

Forgot to add that I'd be very interested in seeing measurements on a brand new plasma, and then the same measurements on a plasma that has undergone accelerated aging. 

It would also be very interesting to calibrate a brand new plasma, then take measurements after the accelerated aging. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Gerbilicous

Iceberg86300 said:


> Second instance I've heard about this. I'd contact Panny. This not normal.
> 
> Also saw it with someone that reset their pioneer. The voltage are rather sensitive and he didn't know what he was doing. ....


I have an ST60 as well. Broke it in and things were good. only noticed IR after static image for long time. Have it connected to HTPC and knew to always be careful. Think it was after 6 months or so family was visiting and I came home and I had the taskbar and some other IR arounds sides. I used screen wipes and it helped but never fully went away. Can make out some program icons in bottom left when there's a lighter background. Now been 6 months since then and ever since, I have the same problem of instant IR. Within 10-20 seconds of menu or something being on screen and it will stick around for a bit. Settings don't seem to matter. I've been quite disappointed in the it after buying it because of all the great reviews.

Also have this, well not sure what to call it. To me it's this tv as it does not show on my pc monitor. But say when an actor is standing in front of a shelf or something that is a horizontal line behind the face, the lines from the shelf or something will go through the face. Like a shadow or something. Maybe I'll see if I can get a picture of it.


----------



## Cuda1169

garnettrules21 said:


> My ST60 has about 2800 hours on it. No burn-in but it literally gets INSTANT image retention. Directv menu up for 20 seconds, image retention. And this is with contrast at like 60. It goes away pretty quick but its still super annoying. Why, with this many hours on the tv would it still get image retention so fast? It should be pretty resistant by now. I've tried different panel brightnesses (low-med-high), that didn't help other than panel brightness high lessened the effect of line bleed. Am I just stuck with dealing with temporary IR for the life of this tv? I'm assuming so.


IMO, temporary IR like what you're experiencing is not an issue. Is your temp IR visible under normal viewing or just when checking with certain color slides. If its temp IR that resloves quickly you're likely in good shape. If its a persistent IR image then a pixel flipper could help.

I have my ST50 for 1.5 years now and get differing degress of temp IR but only notice if I go checking for it with slides, which I no longer do. I use my panel for everything from gaming, movies, Netflix and TV and have not had a problem with IR. I was using the Disney WoW pixel flipper every couple weeks in the early months but have gotten out of the habit lately. This past weekend my nieces and nephews were visiting and abused my panel with hours of CoD. I was planning on running the pixel flipper but didn't have any IR worth worrying about.

With all this in mind, my panel is largely dedicated for my personal use and I do control what it gets used for.


----------



## RetroGiant

Cuda1169 said:


> IMO, temporary IR like what you're experiencing is not an issue. Is your temp IR visible under normal viewing or just when checking with certain color slides. If its temp IR that resloves quickly you're likely in good shape. If its a persistent IR image then a pixel flipper could help.
> 
> I have my ST50 for 1.5 years now and get differing degress of temp IR but only notice if I go checking for it with slides, which I no longer do. I use my panel for everything from gaming, movies, Netflix and TV and have not had a problem with IR. I was using the Disney WoW pixel flipper every couple weeks in the early months but have gotten out of the habit lately. This past weekend my nieces and nephews were visiting and abused my panel with hours of CoD. I was planning on running the pixel flipper but didn't have any IR worth worrying about.
> 
> With all this in mind, my panel is largely dedicated for my personal use and I do control what it gets used for.


I'll just give a random example. Say we are watching Frozen on Starz (Directv), its an outdoor shot showing the sky. I pause the movie and go into my directv menu to make sure a few of my shows are recording later on that night. Say I'm in there 1 minute browsing the menus. I exit that menu and at the top right of the sky I now see the directv logo and then on other light colored scenes as it fades. It takes about 1-5 minutes worth of regular watching for it to go away but it always (knock on wood) does. I've never had burn in and I have never checked for IR on slides. I normally don't even have persistent IR really. I keep my contrast relatively low (60) when gaming with HUDS or watching a logo'd channel such as history and everything fades away pretty quick. 

I'm thankful that it goes away really quick, I just figured at this stage with around 3000 hours IR wouldn't really show up unless I'm at like 80+ contrast and in the menus for 5 minutes or better. Still the best tv I've ever owned, and I love it, but its just annoying. Could be worse I suppose.


----------



## 2907Laz

Gerbilicous said:


> I have an ST60 as well. Broke it in and things were good. only noticed IR after static image for long time. Have it connected to HTPC and knew to always be careful. Think it was after 6 months or so family was visiting and I came home and I had the taskbar and some other IR arounds sides. I used screen wipes and it helped but never fully went away. Can make out some program icons in bottom left when there's a lighter background. Now been 6 months since then and ever since, I have the same problem of instant IR. Within 10-20 seconds of menu or something being on screen and it will stick around for a bit. Settings don't seem to matter. I've been quite disappointed in the it after buying it because of all the great reviews.
> 
> *Also have this, well not sure what to call it. To me it's this tv as it does not show on my pc monitor. But say when an actor is standing in front of a shelf or something that is a horizontal line behind the face, the lines from the shelf or something will go through the face. Like a shadow or something. Maybe I'll see if I can get a picture of it.*


This is called Line Bleed. It's normal for plasmas. I think they all have it to a degree.


----------



## Cuda1169

garnettrules21 said:


> I'll just give a random example. Say we are watching Frozen on Starz (Directv), its an outdoor shot showing the sky. I pause the movie and go into my directv menu to make sure a few of my shows are recording later on that night. Say I'm in there 1 minute browsing the menus. I exit that menu and at the top right of the sky I now see the directv logo and then on other light colored scenes as it fades. It takes about 1-5 minutes worth of regular watching for it to go away but it always (knock on wood) does. I've never had burn in and I have never checked for IR on slides. I normally don't even have persistent IR really. I keep my contrast relatively low (60) when gaming with HUDS or watching a logo'd channel such as history and everything fades away pretty quick.


Does this always happen or just when the panel is first turned on. If the panel is warmed up it shouldn't exhibit much IR from cable menus. It could be an issue but it seems to fade quickly.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Cuda1169 said:


> Does this always happen or just when the panel is first turned on. If the panel is warmed up it shouldn't exhibit much IR from cable menus. It could be an issue but it seems to fade quickly.


Sounds like it's warmed up. 

garnettrules21: First of all, are your anti IR features enabled? What kind of settings are in there? If you've messed around with those, or changed a bunch in the picture menus, you may want to default the TV. This MAY help things out. Don't forget to write down your settings if you do this. Remember that each input gets its own settings, this goes for each picture mode on that input. Not sure if the IR prevention is global or not, might want to check that. Did you change any setting before this started happening? Slow progression or did this just start one day? Or did it start faintly and progress quickly? (see comment with smiley after it if the questions have already been answered)

Can you run a test? basically the same example you have given, just performed when the TV is cold, and then again when the TV has been on for around a half hour. Check to see if one is worse than the other. Before doing this you should run the flipper or use a bright greyscale or white pattern so you know your working with a clean screen. Do the warmed up portion first so you can clear the IR, then you know that the cold test is starting fresh. 

Also repeat the same without pausing that scene of possible. 

Can't remember if you have a test pattern source or not and I'm lazy so I didn't go back in the thread 

If you don't you should go through the process of getting a version of the AVS709HD material. Good for front panel calibration and general testing. And it's free, so you won't regret putting in a bit of work to get the material that will work with your setup and capabilities (like if you don't a BD burner (I don't), do you have DVD burner / BD player combination that will allow you to use a DVD, or will you have to go the usb route, etc). All the info you need is in that thread. 

When you have patterns more tests can be run. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## RetroGiant

Iceberg86300 said:


> Sounds like it's warmed up.
> 
> garnettrules21: First of all, are your anti IR features enabled? What kind of settings are in there? If you've messed around with those, or changed a bunch in the picture menus, you may want to default the TV. This MAY help things out. Don't forget to write down your settings if you do this. Remember that each input gets its own settings, this goes for each picture mode on that input. Not sure if the IR prevention is global or not, might want to check that. Did you change any setting before this started happening? Slow progression or did this just start one day? Or did it start faintly and progress quickly? (see comment with smiley after it if the questions have already been answered)
> 
> Can you run a test? basically the same example you have given, just performed when the TV is cold, and then again when the TV has been on for around a half hour. Check to see if one is worse than the other. Before doing this you should run the flipper or use a bright greyscale or white pattern so you know your working with a clean screen. Do the warmed up portion first so you can clear the IR, then you know that the cold test is starting fresh.
> 
> Also repeat the same without pausing that scene of possible.
> 
> Can't remember if you have a test pattern source or not and I'm lazy so I didn't go back in the thread
> 
> If you don't you should go through the process of getting a version of the AVS709HD material. Good for front panel calibration and general testing. And it's free, so you won't regret putting in a bit of work to get the material that will work with your setup and capabilities (like if you don't a BD burner (I don't), do you have DVD burner / BD player combination that will allow you to use a DVD, or will you have to go the usb route, etc). All the info you need is in that thread.
> 
> When you have patterns more tests can be run.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Yea this happens no matter if the tv has been on 5 minutes or 5 hours. Pretty much since I've owned the tv its been about the same. Pixel Orbiter is always on (not auto). Every setting under the sun has been changed and messed with in trying to figure this out. I usually end up using a mix of either cadets or dnice's settings in the end but Pixel Orbiter is always on for every setting/input. No random setting has been enabled or disabled. 

I always thought of doing a factory reset but figured its probably not necessarily a settings issue at this point but maybe the voltages on the board are out of whack causing this or something. And really didn't want to have to go back after a factory reset and re-enter every single setting. I mean I've "reset settings to default" several times throughout the 2800 hours and nothing has changed. Like I said before though, its all temporary and have never had burn-in, just this annoying short lived instantaneous IR.


----------



## James Freeman

@garnettrules21, everybody.

*Here is what I do to remove even the most stubborn IR (nothing else worked, WOW, Slides, etc..):*

First, understand that the fastest burn-in or IR created when a flash of white appears on a completely black screen, 
for example your enter the Menu on a black background, or using the Plasma as the main PC monitor.
To prevent this change the background to grey or white if you use a PC connected to the Plasma, or as your Home Screen TV background image.

Now download this small (2MB) video file: IR Remover Video

This video is a thin (important) line that moves across the screen that will simply "cook" phosphors quicker than anything else (and remove IR).
Its important that its THIN (unlike the one that's in the menu) to simulate the quick flash of white on a black screen.

Open this with your PC Media Player (I use MPC-HC for a reason) and play this file with maximum Contrast.
I also select in MPC-HC to exit after playback to return to the white background.
Now lower the Contrast back to normal.

Maybe it can be done on a USB stick with the TV built in Media Player?
I'll try later.

I also found a great method to clearly see all the IR's on a Panasonic TV.
1. Click the 3D button on the remote.
2. Click RED button (Manual).
3. Select 2D -> 3D.
4. Change your background to Black (try not to enter the menu).
5. Look for IR.

What 3D mode does is elevate the native black level of the TV along with all the IR so that they are CLEARLY visible.
You can return to normal 2D mode by clicking 3D button on the remote and selecting 2D.
Make sure you return the white background.


If something is not clear, ask.
Hope that helps.


----------



## RetroGiant

Thanks man, I downloaded it and another one similar but with a bit wider line. Have them playing on the tv now. I saved them to a USB drive. Do they just loop by themselves or is there a setting to enable? I've never used the USB plug before so I wasn't sure how video playback was.

Edit: never mind, just just saw the video options with repeat playback. We'll see how it goes. Thanks again.


----------



## James Freeman

@garnettrules21

How did it go?

2-3 runs (each 6 minutes) of this video is PLENTY, you do not need the repeat function.
It removed all my menu IRs with just 2 runs, whether WOW pixel flipper and Slides did nothing for hours... days.

I think IR is more about cell gas excitation than phosphor, where the gas will not fully "relax" after a huge brightness delta.

Burn-in is uneven phosphor aging which takes tens (if the TV is new) or hundreds of hours, but if its created "in a flash" its IR. 
The screen can be evenly flashed so that it appears even, although it raises the (fully relaxed) black level slightly, or not.
I'll have to measure.

I think I'll experiment some more on my brand new (150 hours) ST60, for sciense and glory.


----------



## RetroGiant

Played lego marvel for about 2.5 hours with contrast at 60 and got some solid IR from it (hud is on about 90% of the game). Running your video now for 15 mins at 100 contrast & panel brightness high to see how it goes. Will report back.

Edit: Didn't fully remove it but did lighten it a good amount. Definitely noticed ABL never kicked in. I wish it did move faster back and forth to get more swipes on the areas. It's a good tool though along with my other one I downloaded will be nice additions.


----------



## James Freeman

All the speeds you need: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4SHVPm2DfK5RnZIMDdINTFBN2s&usp=sharing

Whats your VSUS set to in the service menu?


----------



## RetroGiant

I've never ventured into the service menu before cause I'm sure I would screw something up. I'm assuming that VSUS refers to something regarding voltages?


----------



## James Freeman

Yes.

Try running the thin line for another 10 minuter.


----------



## RetroGiant

Does VSUS get messed up along the way or out of the factory set incorrectly?

I ended up venturing into the service menu like a renegade, I was nervous lol. My VSUS is set to low.

Also I think my other version of the IR remover is one of the other faster/larger versions you posted. Is there a reason you prefer the slow/thin one as to the others? I don't think any activate ABL at all.


----------



## James Freeman

Yes default is Low.
Maybe your VSUS set to high, but I'm not sure myself how VSUS effects IR, or at all.

I prefer the thin line because it turns on and off the pixels quicker than the thick line.
In my oppinion it stimulates the plasma cells & phosphor better.

@garnettrules21
Did you try the 3D mode IR test?
It'll show you even the faintest IR on a black screen (simply unplug the HDMI cable).


----------



## B T C

James Freeman said:


> Yes.
> 
> Try running the thin line for another 10 minuter.


I downloaded this video. Aside from the width of the bar and the scrolling speed, is there any difference in comparison to the built in screen wiper utility on the VT60 & ZT60?

I ran the WOW pixel flipper overnight and this video for a little while this morning. I can't really tell if the IR on my set has changed at all sine I first noticed it, which is a bit discouraging. I've had the set for about 4 weeks now and it had about 1000 hours on it at time of purchase. I really hope this isn't permanent.


----------



## James Freeman

B T C said:


> I downloaded this video. Aside from the width of the bar and the scrolling speed, is there any difference in comparison to the built in screen wiper utility on the VT60 & ZT60?


The difference is that it does not trigger the ABL circuitry.
In effect you get maximum brightness that the TV is capable in this thin line.

Whatever you do, NEVER pause this video.
Its the kind of things that are the best and the worst combined.

Did you try to see your IR using the 2D->3D trick?
What IR do you have? menu?


----------



## B T C

James Freeman said:


> The difference is that it does not trigger the ABL circuitry.
> In effect you get maximum brightness that the TV is capable in this thin line.
> 
> Whatever you do, NEVER pause this video.
> Its the kind of things that are the best and the worst combined.
> 
> Did you try to see your IR using the 2D->3D trick?
> What IR do you have? menu?



So the built in screen wiper kicks in the ABL?


I haven't tried the 3D suggestion yet.


My IR is along the bottom part of my screen where static station logos or scoll bar images would be present. I can make out a bit of an NBC logo in the bottom right corner, and there is some other stuff in approximately the same location but you can't really make out anything other than the fact it's there, and a thin line that kind of goes across the entire screen that would more than likely have been the top border of a news scroller. I can't really see it unless there is a light image on the screen and if I didn't know it was there I might never notice it. But now that I know it's there, I can't not notice it.


----------



## Iceberg86300

I'd be vvvvvvveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrryyyyyy careful with what you have created. In fact, I would NOT leave that here. No offense to anyone here, everyone that posts in this particular thread seems to a general understanding of what their doing/asking/advice giving, but forums are magnets for idiots. In this thread we basically discuss physics of plasma in an effort to keep our personal copies of the technology alive and well for as long as possible, and tell few odd people "you don't need no stinkin slides!"

On that note, does anyone have a general figure for a plasmas half life (actually in TV terms it's the useful life of a TV)? IE what is normally given "bulb" sets, the time it takes for a TV to lose half its light output? 

Back to your tool, an idiot WILL download that and WILL burn lines into their TV. Personally I don't even think that I'd ever use it, at the very least not how you describe anyway. We're dealing with powerful microcontroller's, DSP's, and maybe even SoC's on a few models, plus the multiple core crap that is inevitably on its way into consumer electronics beyond the computer and mobile markets. Unfortunately, for pure TV, anything over one core is going to be kinda useless, the smart TV portion would definitely benifit, but that's about it. It's going to become a selling point, if multiple cores are actually utilized for TV they will power processing which we almost always turn off. 

The point is, it only takes one line of code to flip a bit or flag, sometimes no code if an instruction automatically sets a flag which is then never dealt with. A tiny glitch in any hardware/circuit board that occurs at the right time can flip a bit as well, then you end up with a frozen set and wake up to a panel that actually has BURN IN and not just IR. This is rare, but sets do lock up from time to time. 

The real danger is the idiot. Regardless of how well you document the process there will be people that burn lines into their panel. Then you have aholes that will take this and plug it into a display model to burn in a line on a display model just because they can. 

Then there is the fact that the process you're using is basically produces ultra accelerated aging. IR isn't just uneven aging. In a lot of cases it doesn't even include aging, it's just residual charges in the cells. Pixel flipper serves to shock cells to get rid of the residuals. 

Not saying the method you have come up with doesn't work, just that it should be used sparingly and very carefully. For very stubborn IR in which aging is a component it's great, but just because you have this tool doesn't mean common sense guidelines should just be tossed out the window. 

The use of "you" doesn't mean I'm directing this at you personally, but rather people that may come across your tool and use it like there is no tomorrow. 

So, again, you may want to remove that link and just tell people to Google it, or put a massive disclaimer in there. Just trying to keep you protected from people that will flood you with whining about ruining their panel. (I've seen it many times on here before)

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## James Freeman

Iceberg86300 said:


> I'd be vvvvvvveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrryyyyyy careful with what you have created.


100% Agreed !!!

Posts will be deleted immediately.


----------



## Iceberg86300

James Freeman said:


> 100% Agreed !!!
> 
> Posts will be deleted immediately.


Oops, didn't mean you should delete the posts, just the link. My bad. 

It is good info and a good tool for those with bad IR. Don't know if that info is gone for good or not. 

You seem to follow the thread, so next time someone comes along with bad IR you can tell them you have a method that will help, but it can be dangerous, etc, etc, etc.

Just don't want some yahoo grabbing the file without knowing the power that they are wielding. I think we are all guilty of doing stuff without reading the directions. 

Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own actions, it's not your problem if someone doesn't read your directions, which I thought were clear BTW, but that doesn't stop the idiots from hammering you. 

You may want to post the details in a pro part of the forum/part where pros hang out. If I had a customer that torched their set I might use what you put together, but most of us (should be everyone) carry insurance for just this type of thing, or if we accidently brick a set. Calibrating isn't really that big of a money maker unless you're world class flying around dealing with huge clients. Even if it's primary income if you brick even a 5k set without insurance you'll probably be eating Ramen for a year. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## B T C

I downloaded and used the video for a few minutes. Perhaps it's my imagination, but I thought I noticed many vertical bars of IR afterwards. At the same time I thought I saw that, I also thought I could see some IR from the application that is used to play video, and the app itself would not have been on the screen for for more than just a few seconds. I'm certainly not concerned that it was anything permanent, but I was "surprised".

Wasn't the video just a capture of numerous stills? Based upon what I saw, it appeared that not every part of the display was being subjected to the "bright vertical light". There appeared to be narrow bands between the persistent images that I observed, but there could be a reasonable explanation for that.

I think I have decided to just watch TV, and perhaps use the pixel flipper, in an effort to deal with the IR on my set.


----------



## RetroGiant

Lately I have been using this video which I downloaded and put on an USB drive. 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9IHoAQ&usg=AFQjCNEquumGy1-ahXdxvFrLP5dqgd3xiQ

I like it quite a bit. It doesn't allow ABL to kick in, moves in multiple directions and moves quick. I put smooth motion on High when using it to remove the judder.

In the end I think the safest IR removal methods are simply watching tv, built in screen wipe and wow pixel flipper.


----------



## B T C

I've got a Panasonic TC-P42S2 that I must have bought sometime in 2010. Just out of curiosity, I checked it this morning for burn-in and/or IR. All I was able to use was the built in screen wiper tool, which I didn't even know it had until just recently. I saw nothing. I never did anything with this TV other than plug it in and start using it. I've gamed on this thing, watched all kinds of content etc., much of which I'm sure had static logos on the screen. It's kind of disappointing to find out that their newer plasma displays are so susceptible to this issue. I never even took that into consideration prior to purchasing the 55" VT60 from my friend. I just assumed it wasn't something I needed to worry about. I wish I had spent a bit of time researching prior to purchase.


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor

Ok, so I'm going to grab a new plasma next week and wanting to prepare for it and get some burn-in slides ready. I downloaded the linked slides in post #1 of this thread (Evangelo's slides). Do I just put them on a loop and run them for a 100 hours? Is that it? Any settings need to be tweaked on the TV when running the slides? Thanks!


----------



## Cuda1169

Thunder_God_Thor said:


> Ok, so I'm going to grab a new plasma next week and wanting to prepare for it and get some burn-in slides ready. I downloaded the linked slides in post #1 of this thread (Evangelo's slides). Do I just put them on a loop and run them for a 100 hours? Is that it? Any settings need to be tweaked on the TV when running the slides? Thanks!


Yep you can run them in a loop to assist with phosphor aging. Some people will also djust the brightness and contrast down a bit. You can also just watch as much full screen/logo free content as possible for the first 100-200hrs. For my panel, I ran the slides for two weeks straight whenever I was not using it. So I used a combo of actually watching the panel and using color slides for the first 336 hours. I then had my panel (ST50) professionally calibrated and it looks great.

Congrats and Enjoy your Panel.


----------



## B T C

Is this implying that displaying a static white image might reduce, or eliminate, permanent IR or burn?


http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/recovery%20of%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20using%20aging%20discharge%20in%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor

Cuda1169 said:


> Yep you can run them in a loop to assist with phosphor aging. Some people will also djust the brightness and contrast down a bit. You can also just watch as much full screen/logo free content as possible for the first 100-200hrs. For my panel, I ran the slides for two weeks straight whenever I was not using it. So I used a combo of actually watching the panel and using color slides for the first 336 hours. I then had my panel (ST50) professionally calibrated and it looks great.
> 
> Congrats and Enjoy your Panel.


Thanks Cuda! Sounds like a plan to me. Im thinking the same thing, run the slides when Im not watching the TV. Thanks for the reply again  Although Im thinking now, how would I put the slides on a loop from a thumb drive as there just images (how long should each image display before moving on to the next one)?


----------



## Cuda1169

Thunder_God_Thor said:


> Thanks Cuda! Sounds like a plan to me. Im thinking the same thing, run the slides when Im not watching the TV. Thanks for the reply again  Although Im thinking now, how would I put the slides on a loop from a thumb drive as there just images (how long should each image display before moving on to the next one)?


My Panny ST50 has a repeat setting that plays the images in a loop from my thumb drive. I can also set the image display interval to slow, medium or fast. I used the slow interval during my panel's soft aging process so each color was displayed decent period of time.


----------



## Thunder_God_Thor

Cuda1169 said:


> My Panny ST50 has a repeat setting that plays the images in a loop from my thumb drive. I can also set the image display interval to slow, medium or fast. I used the slow interval during my panel's soft aging process so each color was displayed decent period of time.


Ah k, well Ill see if my TV has something similar when I get it next week (Samsung). If not, Ill have to figure out another way to put the images on a slideshow at slow speed.


----------



## Iceberg86300

B T C said:


> Is this implying that displaying a static white image might reduce, or eliminate, permanent IR or burn?
> 
> 
> http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/re...ging discharge in AC plasma display panel.pdf


Didn't read the whole paper, but from abstract and summary this follows for what I was taught during my ISF cert class in 07. But not really for burn in. If you truly burn an image then it is not image retention. The effects may be reduced for burn in, but if you want to get rid of it completely you need to buy a new a set  .

This is more for seasoning a new TV to reduce the chances of burn to a degree more than the technology has, greatly reducing the chances of IR, and getting rid of accidental IR. 

I'll read through the whole paper and get back to you to confirm or deny what I have stated.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## B T C

Is it true that, in comparison to the VT60, the ZT60 display contains no MgO, or magnesium oxide, making it less susceptible to burn in or IR? I remember reading that somewhere, but just wondered if anyone could confirm.


----------



## Iceberg86300

B T C said:


> Is it true that, in comparison to the VT60, the ZT60 display contains no MgO, or magnesium oxide, making it less susceptible to burn in or IR? I remember reading that somewhere, but just wondered if anyone could confirm.


Can't help you on that one. Sounds like inside info someone could could loose their job over. Someone may have let it slip though. In any case, I would assume that would be a selling point, only there wouldn't be talk about MgO, just less IR. Of course that would imply a problem with the VT, so I really don't know.

Still gotta read that paper.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## B T C

Iceberg86300 said:


> Can't help you on that one. Sounds like inside info someone could could loose their job over. Someone may have let it slip though. In any case, I would assume that would be a selling point, only there wouldn't be talk about MgO, just less IR. Of course that would imply a problem with the VT, so I really don't know.
> 
> Still gotta read that paper.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


This is where I saw the comment about the ZT60 not using MgO.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasma-flat-panel-displays/1459418-zt60-vs-vt60.html


----------



## Iceberg86300

B T C said:


> This is where I saw the comment about the ZT60 not using MgO.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasma-flat-panel-displays/1459418-zt60-vs-vt60.html


Heh, one post that wasn't even acknowledged by anyone in thread. I would dismiss it as of now, until you see it from another source, if that ever happens.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Penetronn

Burn-in is still a major problem unfortunately. Watched about 400-500 hours with low-contrast, low brightness settings or our main basement unit - Samsung PN51E550 and about three months ago we noticed the ESPN logo form the ticker, Xbox One logo, and various horizontal lines visible on all white to gray images. Had to replace with an LED which is a huge bummer because the PQ on the plasma was the best I've ever seen.


----------



## B T C

When I turned my TV on this morning, I could see IR on my 55" VT60 from the Vierra logo that comes up when the set is powered on. It seemed to go away pretty quickly, but that still seems a bit messed up to me honestly.


----------



## gossamer88

I've had mine for over 7 months now and I see the same thing. I'm not worried as it is not permanent. These 3D panels are more susceptible than previous ones. 

My 2007 1080p (non-3D) panel never had this issue. 3D is the reason from what I've read.


----------



## hunterkiller1983

I have a Panasonic Plasma TC-P50GT30 with 2200 hours counted on it.
I think i may have a burn in. I can barely see a logo in the bottom right of the screen.
Since I'm not the 1st user on it, i don't know since when this occurred.
Do you think it's still possible to recover from this or not ?


----------



## Tom Riddle

hunterkiller1983 said:


> I have a Panasonic Plasma TC-P50GT30 with 2200 hours counted on it.
> I think i may have a burn in. I can barely see a logo in the bottom right of the screen.
> Since I'm not the 1st user on it, i don't know since when this occurred.
> Do you think it's still possible to recover from this or not ?


Should be fine, just stay away from the logo a bit and watch fullscreen content at higher contrast settings. I wouldn't worry about it. I've had all kinds of things on my screen that disappear with a little time. I do t hold back from watching any content on my 3 year old 65VT30. After watching the NFL Draft for several days this year, I had the ESPN logo on my screen for a couple of days after. They always go away.


----------



## Cuda1169

B T C said:


> When I turned my TV on this morning, I could see IR on my 55" VT60 from the Vierra logo that comes up when the set is powered on. It seemed to go away pretty quickly, but that still seems a bit messed up to me honestly.


That is normal for a cold plasma when booting up. My ST50 does it but the logo is gone very quickly. Also my pdp seems very resistant to IR once it has been warmed upped for 30min or more.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Cuda1169 said:


> That is normal for a cold plasma when booting up. My ST50 does it but the logo is gone very quickly. Also my pdp seems very resistant to IR once it has been warmed upped for 30min or more.


Another reason to warm up your set! Minimum time for calibration is 30 minutes, but I usually tell people an hour. Sometimes get a frantic call that people forget. I tell them before hand $100 bucks an hour for me to watch their TV warm up to try to get them to remember.  Then I have to calm them down, depending on the set and time of cal I can be taking before readings in 10 minutes, but tell them I'll drag it out and ask for a house tour to get at least 30 minutes, but like I said, an hour is what I shot for.



Regards, 
Steve


----------



## bonzo2014

B T C said:


> When I turned my TV on this morning, I could see IR on my 55" VT60 from the Vierra logo that comes up when the set is powered on. It seemed to go away pretty quickly, but that still seems a bit messed up to me honestly.


I have the same set and same problem with the Smart Viera logo and also the program guide. Haven't heard the 'cold set' explanation before so will investigate that.
My set has over 1500 hours on it, brightness is at 0, contrast at 50. The IR issue has only become apparent in the last 2-3 weeks.....
I checked my PS3 display settings last night and the Super White setting was 'on'. I'd been playing a lot of Uncharted 2 and Wipeout in a timeframe that correlates to my noticing the IR. Other than the recent Unchartered/Wipeout binge, I've not played multiple hours of PS3 since last January. Other than the odd Blu Ray movie.
Obviously the PS3 can't directly cause IR on startup logos or program guides, but perhaps it's made the set more susceptible overall? The TV was set on 70 contrast and +5 brightness on the HDMI used for PS3 (the other contrast and brightness setting quoted above are for all other channels, xbox 360, fta, home theatre).
Anyone have and experience with similar? Need to determine cause first then rectify longer. 
Thanks.


----------



## Tom Riddle

^It's more likely that your set's susceptibility to IR hasn't changed at all, but your recognition of it has. Your set will always get IR no matter what you do, just be confident in the fact that it will go away with time. I watch sports all day during football season and have had all kinds of IR from it, but it always goes away.


----------



## bonzo2014

That's a possibility, I wouldn't have considered that as I usually notice visual differences and changes pretty quickly, but I'll certainly keep it in mind.
Good news is that the IR has been removed by about 80% just using the scrolling bar for 4-5 hours over the last week. 
I'd prefer not to have to have the issue, but the small amount of occasional maintenance required (to this point) is worth it for the spectacular PQ


----------



## AmusedGoat

Hello friends, 

Recently got a 60 inch Sammy plasma and I got so excited the first couple of weeks that I couldn't wait to watch all my favorite Blu Ray movies in 1:85 aspect ratio, despite AVS users advising against it during the break in period. 

I only watched black bar movies as an extension to my usual 16:9 content, but in the past 2 weeks of owning it I have viewed: 

- Kingdom of Heaven 
- Blade Runner 
- The Dark Knight
- Wanted
- The Mummy 
- V for Vendetta 
- Troy 

All with black bars....now I am not sure where I am in the 100-200 hour period, but let's say on average I watched it 5 hours a day...so I currently have 70 hours clocked in. 

What is the best course of action to take from now on? I have noticed black bars burned into the plasma after watching a movie but they are only noticeable on a solid black background and after switching to a full screen source they disappear. I have noticed no burn-in or IR aside from that and am under the impression that this current F5500 Sammy handles it well. 

Do I run the color slides from now on? Do I run the scrolling grey black bars from the TV settings menu? Do I continue watching 1:85 movies as I please? 

Thank you!


----------



## Cuda1169

AmusedGoat,
Sounds like your panel is fine if the black bars are not visible when watching normal full screen content. Perhaps I misunderstood what you are trying to convey. If you are noticing residual black bars under normal viewing you can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible. You can also use a pixel flipper like the one found on the Disney WoW bluray disc, this is the one I use and it works. But honestly, watching logo free full screen content works just as well.

Good luck and enjoy your panel.


----------



## AmusedGoat

Cuda1169 said:


> AmusedGoat,
> Sounds like your panel is fine if the black bars are not visible when watching normal full screen content. Perhaps I misunderstood what you are trying to convey. If you are noticing residual black bars under normal viewing you can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible. You can also use a pixel flipper like the one found on the Disney WoW bluray disc, this is the one I use and it works. But honestly, watching logo free full screen content works just as well.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy your panel.


Thank you Cuda1169. Sorry for the shoddy phrasing. 

I guess I was wondering if this effected anything long-term? For example, the top and bottom cells did not burn in or "age" properly, so after the 100-hour mark and final calibration they will never be as visually mature as the middle pixels that were properly broken in, and will be playing catch up, so to speak. 

Does that make sense?


----------



## Cuda1169

AmusedGoat said:


> Thank you Cuda1169. Sorry for the shoddy phrasing.
> 
> I guess I was wondering if this effected anything long-term? For example, the top and bottom cells did not burn in or "age" properly, so after the 100-hour mark and final calibration they will never be as visually mature as the middle pixels that were properly broken in, and will be playing catch up, so to speak.
> 
> Does that make sense?


If you are calibrating or having it done professionally, I would recommend watching as much full screen content as you can for the first 100-200 hours. I had my panel professionally calibrated and ran color slides whenever I was not using the panel for two weeks w/o ever shutting it off. I did game and watch a few 2.35:1 movies during this period of time and my panel is no worse for wear. 

I think your panel is likely just fine. Enjoy.


----------



## 2907Laz

AmusedGoat said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Recently got a 60 inch Sammy plasma and I got so excited the first couple of weeks that I couldn't wait to watch all my favorite Blu Ray movies in 1:85 aspect ratio, despite AVS users advising against it during the break in period.
> 
> I only watched black bar movies as an extension to my usual 16:9 content, but in the past 2 weeks of owning it I have viewed:
> 
> - Kingdom of Heaven
> - Blade Runner
> - The Dark Knight
> - Wanted
> - The Mummy
> - V for Vendetta
> - Troy
> 
> All with black bars....now I am not sure where I am in the 100-200 hour period, but let's say on average I watched it 5 hours a day...so I currently have 70 hours clocked in.
> 
> What is the best course of action to take from now on? I have noticed black bars burned into the plasma after watching a movie but they are only noticeable on a solid black background and after switching to a full screen source they disappear. I have noticed no burn-in or IR aside from that and am under the impression that this current F5500 Sammy handles it well.
> 
> Do I run the color slides from now on? Do I run the scrolling grey black bars from the TV settings menu? Do I continue watching 1:85 movies as I please?
> 
> Thank you!


If those seven movies have a total running time of ~14 hours, that's 20% of the total time you've watched the TV. That seems like too high a percentage of black bars for the 'break in' period. Others with more experience might be able to confirm this.


----------



## Cuda1169

2907Laz said:


> If those seven movies have a total running time of ~14 hours, that's 20% of the total time you've watched the TV. That seems like too high a percentage of black bars for the 'break in' period. Others with more experience might be able to confirm this.


14 hours would be OK in the long run even if it occurred in the early life of the panel. Many have abused their panels from day one and have no hint of burn-in or persistent IR.


----------



## Goatz18

*Line Bleed and Video Game Burn In*

I have a Panasonic TC-P50U50 and the picture quality, black level, and color are fantastic. I do experience some pretty bad line bleed though, and serious burn in from playing games with HUD displays. I have FIOS and text, graphics, and certain scenes such as ones with window blinds cause line bleed all the time. I have 360 and PS3 and first person shooters with HUD displays are serious burn in offenders, I have to stop playing for a week and run my Disney WOW bluray as much as I can. It all goes away eventually, but is a real hassle.

Is this typical or could some settings be tweaked to at least limit these things from happening? I had thought Plasma's were relatively free of these issues as was my understanding before purchasing the TV, I now have found some information otherwise, like on this site and others that I wish I found before, specifically on Panasonics. Despite the amazing picture, I would almost prefer an LCD with more options and video inputs like VGA. Anybody have any advice, tips, or anything? Other than buy an LCD for gaming?


----------



## Cuda1169

Goatz18 said:


> I have a Panasonic TC-P50U50 and the picture quality, black level, and color are fantastic. I do experience some pretty bad line bleed though, and serious burn in from playing games with HUD displays. I have FIOS and text, graphics, and certain scenes such as ones with window blinds cause line bleed all the time. I have 360 and PS3 and first person shooters with HUD displays are serious burn in offenders, I have to stop playing for a week and run my Disney WOW bluray as much as I can. It all goes away eventually, but is a real hassle.
> 
> Is this typical or could some settings be tweaked to at least limit these things from happening? I had thought Plasma's were relatively free of these issues as was my understanding before purchasing the TV, I now have found some information otherwise, like on this site and others that I wish I found before, specifically on Panasonics. Despite the amazing picture, I would almost prefer an LCD with more options and video inputs like VGA. Anybody have any advice, tips, or anything? Other than buy an LCD for gaming?


I don't know if there is much you can do about line bleed. For the IR you can run the WOW bluray more often or just mix in full screen logo free content in between your gaming sessions.


----------



## SpacedDuck

How do I know the difference between Burn in and IR?

I've got a beautiful HUD from Destiny on PS4 showing on light screens in the bottom left of my Panasonic TCP60VT60.

It's covered by my extended warranty but I'd prefer if I could just get it out as I love this TV and there's nothing on the market that looks worthwhile replacing it with with the exchange I'll get.


----------



## Iceberg86300

SpacedDuck said:


> How do I know the difference between Burn in and IR?
> 
> I've got a beautiful HUD from Destiny on PS4 showing on light screens in the bottom left of my Panasonic TCP60VT60.
> 
> It's covered by my extended warranty but I'd prefer if I could just get it out as I love this TV and there's nothing on the market that looks worthwhile replacing it with with the exchange I'll get.


If the warranty is through panny, personally, if check with them regarding what you'd get. Don't know the fine print so I'd be careful with what details are given. Don't know about what would happen with your warranty if something is reported but you decline.

Anyway, you never know what's tucked away in the warehouse. You could end up with a zt60 for paying a couple hundred bucks, or free if no vt60's are around, or a brand new vt60, or or a new vt60 panel swapped in for yours, etc.

As to your question, your set just has IR, characterized by the HUD only being v visible on light screens. IR goes away, burn in doesn't. Of you had burn in that HUD would be jumping out at you all the time, regardless of what your watching. Also, with today's tech, it's practically impossible to j get to burn in. You'd need a static image that was VERY likely to cause IR quickly and leave it on for days if not weeks, and this is after defeating the sets protections of turning off or going to a screensaver after X minutes, same with the turning off after Y minutes of not receiving a command, the pixel orbiter's, etc.

Basically you need to actively TRY to get burn in to actually have a chance of getting it.

Beyond trying to get ZT from the warehouse like I talked about above, running a pixel flipper like what is found on the Disney wow disk or what a member here created, or tossing up a 80-90-100 ire greyscale calibration screen (your choice on the IRE level, and this method came straight from the ISF when I took the calibration class ~2006, before pixel flippers) and the IR should fade away to unnoticeable pretty quickly.

May want to save the warranty until it's almost up because who knows what you'd get then. Same reasoning is used to go for the warranty now because I'm sure there is stuff in the warehouse just for these circumstances.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Technikos

*Setting up a USED Panansonic 65ZT60, WOW Disc, Calibration etc*

Ok, couple of questions, I will be hopefully buying a used 65ZT60 in the coming weeks.

About the TV: The set has about 3800hrs~(pic was sent to me), it was a display model. The sales manger was very sincere in helping me answer questions, the location of the tv in the store was not in hands reach where customers could touch the TV (he sent me pics, on a shelf higher up), he explained they never get the same image on the screens, was running normal TV content and rotating the channels.(non-stationary content). 

Here are my questions:
1. Should I leave it off for a couple of days? (since its been on in the store for some time)

2. Should I run color slides to maybe reset the plasma cells to get them all even again? (not sure if that makes sense)

3. And what is the WOW disc from Disney? (would that be important?)

4. Basically what I am asking if I can do a "TUNE UP" to the TV as you would do to a car.(change oil, change the brakes, lubricate etc) 

5.And I also would be getting the 1 year warranty from Panasonic. (anything to know about this?

6. Can I still get this TV professionally calibrated?

7. Any other suggestions? I will use this TV mostly for movies and sports, minor gaming on Xbox.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.


----------



## B T C

Are you buying it without personally inspecting it? I would say the odds of the television having IR and/or potentially permanent burn in are close to 100%. Based upon my experience, IR does not show up very well in photographs. Is this one of the ABC Warehouse display sets?


----------



## caloyzki

Need help. 1st time owner plasma here. Just bought vt60 used floor model. And it has some IR or burn in on the screen. Any idea which settings or way i need to run to eliminate those logos? Thanks.


----------



## JarvisKong

So I'm basically really happy with my Samsung F5300 50" PDP, but after reading certain forum comments I've become a bit worried about IR/burn in again. I've been using it pretty normally for months now, running the screen wipe if there's any temporary IR. All IR goes away pretty quickly with either that or Disney's pixel flipper (I could faintly see the PS3s "pause" icon for awhile so I ran it).

I saw a thread online that stated that burn-in is cumulative, in response to someone who had watched a channel with a logo, not for hours at a time necessarily, but fairly regularly for a number of years, and said he had a logo burned in. Is that true?

Does this mean it's inevitable? Will I eventually have the pause button icon burned in? The 4:3 frame, the black bars from Scope movies?

Panasonic apparently recommends that only 20% (or some number) of your viewing be non-16:9. Samsung's manual says only 5%!

Surely one isn't expected to simply watch TV on a plasma - shows and the odd movie in 1.78:1. Who would buy the TV technology with the best PQ for just that? I mean, I'd expect a plasma to be a movie fan's pick, if anything. I chose a plasma because I'm a big movie fan and want to watch them in the best quality I can at home. That means black bars, and lots of them. Half the movies I watch are 2.35:1 with larger black bars, most of the rest 1.85:1 with smaller, and there are too many great older shows at 1.33:1 to not watch. I don't know if just running screen wipe or viewing full screen content after a movie is enough - it makes the imprint of the bars disappear, but will they eventually show permanently, having been aged less? I do try to watch fullscreen stuff if I feel I've had too many black bars on lately, but it seems kinda nutty to be consciousy worrying about this ratio hundreds of hours into the TV's life. 

It just seems that there's so much conflicting info out there. 

Thanks for any information.


----------



## LyftedLyfe

where can i find the test slides to calibrate or check for ir?

-Mike


----------



## Cuda1169

Anastasios T Geivelis said:


> Ok, couple of questions, I will be hopefully buying a used 65ZT60 in the coming weeks.
> 
> About the TV: The set has about 3800hrs~(pic was sent to me), it was a display model. The sales manger was very sincere in helping me answer questions, the location of the tv in the store was not in hands reach where customers could touch the TV (he sent me pics, on a shelf higher up), he explained they never get the same image on the screens, was running normal TV content and rotating the channels.(non-stationary content).
> 
> Here are my questions:
> 1. Should I leave it off for a couple of days? (since its been on in the store for some time)
> 
> 2. Should I run color slides to maybe reset the plasma cells to get them all even again? (not sure if that makes sense)
> 
> 3. And what is the WOW disc from Disney? (would that be important?)
> 
> 4. Basically what I am asking if I can do a "TUNE UP" to the TV as you would do to a car.(change oil, change the brakes, lubricate etc)
> 
> 5.And I also would be getting the 1 year warranty from Panasonic. (anything to know about this?
> 
> 6. Can I still get this TV professionally calibrated?
> 
> 7. Any other suggestions? I will use this TV mostly for movies and sports, minor gaming on Xbox.
> 
> Thanks for the help and suggestions.


At this point there is nothing color slides will do but expose any IR issues you may have. If you have IR, you can run the WoW pixel flipper for a few days to reduce it or just run full screen logo free programming for the same amount of time. And yes, if I were you, I would have the panel professionally calibrated.


----------



## Cuda1169

caloyzki said:


> Need help. 1st time owner plasma here. Just bought vt60 used floor model. And it has some IR or burn in on the screen. Any idea which settings or way i need to run to eliminate those logos? Thanks.


You can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible and it should clear up on its own.


----------



## Cuda1169

JarvisKong said:


> Surely one isn't expected to simply watch TV on a plasma - shows and the odd movie in 1.78:1. Who would buy the TV technology with the best PQ for just that? I mean, I'd expect a plasma to be a movie fan's pick, if anything. I chose a plasma because I'm a big movie fan and want to watch them in the best quality I can at home. That means black bars, and lots of them. Half the movies I watch are 2.35:1 with larger black bars, most of the rest 1.85:1 with smaller, and there are too many great older shows at 1.33:1 to not watch. I don't know if just running screen wipe or viewing full screen content after a movie is enough - it makes the imprint of the bars disappear, but will they eventually show permanently, having been aged less? I do try to watch fullscreen stuff if I feel I've had too many black bars on lately, but it seems kinda nutty to be consciousy worrying about this ratio hundreds of hours into the TV's life.


I think your panel will likely be ok. You can always run the screen wipe or Disney WoW pixel flipper after a heavy movie day.


----------



## caloyzki

Cuda1169 said:


> You can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible and it should clear up on its own.


thanks. but i think but not sure, maybe the burn in is already permanent . but how often i need to run the screen wipe?hours? thanks


----------



## Cuda1169

caloyzki said:


> thanks. but i think but not sure, maybe the burn in is already permanent . but how often i need to run the screen wipe?hours? thanks


If you think you have burn-in use as much full screen content as possible or run the Disney WoW pixel flipper over night. If the IR is less, it is not burn in and you can continue with the pixel flipper or full screen content until it clears.


----------



## caloyzki

Cuda1169 said:


> If you think you have burn-in use as much full screen content as possible or run the Disney WoW pixel flipper over night. If the IR is less, it is not burn in and you can continue with the pixel flipper or full screen content until it clears.


Thanks. So all cable channels i watch movies and games i just used full screen with them? And also the wow disc where i cam get them? Dvd or bluray? Which on the settings are full screen? Is it the full or just? Thanks


----------



## Cuda1169

caloyzki said:


> Thanks. So all cable channels i watch movies and games i just used full screen with them? And also the wow disc where i cam get them? Dvd or bluray? Which on the settings are full screen? Is it the full or just? Thanks


Sure you can expand you screen to fill the entire screen w/o logos. You can order the Disney WoW bluray at Amazon. I don't recall which setting overscans the screen but its something you can see right away. Good luck and enjoy your panel.


----------



## Jason Priestley

Iceberg86300 said:


> If the warranty is through panny, personally, if check with them regarding what you'd get. Don't know the fine print so I'd be careful with what details are given. Don't know about what would happen with your warranty if something is reported but you decline.
> 
> Anyway, you never know what's tucked away in the warehouse. You could end up with a zt60 for paying a couple hundred bucks, or free if no vt60's are around, or a brand new vt60, or or a new vt60 panel swapped in for yours, etc.
> 
> As to your question, your set just has IR, characterized by the HUD only being v visible on light screens. IR goes away, burn in doesn't. Of you had burn in that HUD would be jumping out at you all the time, regardless of what your watching. Also, with today's tech, it's practically impossible to j get to burn in. You'd need a static image that was VERY likely to cause IR quickly and leave it on for days if not weeks, and this is after defeating the sets protections of turning off or going to a screensaver after X minutes, same with the turning off after Y minutes of not receiving a command, the pixel orbiter's, etc.
> 
> Basically you need to actively TRY to get burn in to actually have a chance of getting it.
> 
> Beyond trying to get ZT from the warehouse like I talked about above, running a pixel flipper like what is found on the Disney wow disk or what a member here created, or tossing up a 80-90-100 ire greyscale calibration screen (your choice on the IRE level, and this method came straight from the ISF when I took the calibration class ~2006, before pixel flippers) and the IR should fade away to unnoticeable pretty quickly.
> 
> May want to save the warranty until it's almost up because who knows what you'd get then. Same reasoning is used to go for the warranty now because I'm sure there is stuff in the warehouse just for these circumstances.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


I got the same thing from playing Destiny!!!! In total I have logged about 36 hours on the game in the past month but have probably watched other content equal to it at a 2:1 ratio. In a typical play session I will play about 2 hours at a time although there will be loading screens in between matches. See the pic below as to an example of the Destiny Heads up display. On solid light colored screens i see a dark horizontal bar (almost like a shadow) right where that yellow meter is on the bottom left. Since I noticed it I have played full screen content amounting to at least 15 hours and have played the Disney Wow pixel flipper for at least 3 hours as well as running the ZT60 screen wipe for 1-2 hours. The bar is less pronounced but I still see it. I have not had a HUD issue in any other game but for some reason this really stands out. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that you cannot turn off the HUD in the game. 

I'm very hesitant about playing the game in the future and can't believe how much I have to baby the ZT60 relative to an older panny plasma and Kuro set that I have. I'm almost wondering if I should just get the IR even more pronounced, call up best buy and use my protection plan and use a credit for a UHD set so I just don't have to worry about IR issues (I've been very resistant to the thought of switching to LCD/LED due to motion/black levels/viewing angles). Thoughts?


----------



## JediL1C1OUS

Very helpful, thanks.


----------



## Cuda1169

Jason Priestley said:


> I got the same thing from playing Destiny!!!! In total I have logged about 36 hours on the game in the past month but have probably watched other content equal to it at a 2:1 ratio. In a typical play session I will play about 2 hours at a time although there will be loading screens in between matches. See the pic below as to an example of the Destiny Heads up display. On solid light colored screens i see a dark horizontal bar (almost like a shadow) right where that yellow meter is on the bottom left. Since I noticed it I have played full screen content amounting to at least 15 hours and have played the Disney Wow pixel flipper for at least 3 hours as well as running the ZT60 screen wipe for 1-2 hours. The bar is less pronounced but I still see it. I have not had a HUD issue in any other game but for some reason this really stands out. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that you cannot turn off the HUD in the game.
> 
> I'm very hesitant about playing the game in the future and can't believe how much I have to baby the ZT60 relative to an older panny plasma and Kuro set that I have. I'm almost wondering if I should just get the IR even more pronounced, call up best buy and use my protection plan and use a credit for a UHD set so I just don't have to worry about IR issues (I've been very resistant to the thought of switching to LCD/LED due to motion/black levels/viewing angles). Thoughts?


Have you calibrated your panel? Proper calibration can help reduce stubborn IR in the future. Continuing with the pixel flipper and full screen content is your best bet to help get rid of the IR. I game on my ST50 regularly and it accounts for 15%-20% of my panel’s usage. I do watch a lot of full screen content and I think that helps. I also let me panel warm up for 30-60 minutes before any gaming. Good Luck.


----------



## Jason Priestley

I have not gotten this TV calibrated. What would that actually do from an IR perspective? I did wait about 250 hours before any gaming. My gaming is about 1/3 of usage. Never saw IR (that would last more than a few seconds) with any other game. I have noticed that after watching a lot of full screen content that the band is diminished but still noticeable (went about a week). Then I played the game again and the IR returned again. I also typically watch 30-60 minutes before playing and try to watch some full screen content after I'm done gaming. I don't know. Perhaps I'll just have to stop playing destiny and move onto another game. 

I had read others post on the ZT60 thread that their IR became more noticeable and more stubborn after 1500-2000 hours of owning the TV. Its disappointing because when I put on a blu-ray this television is truly gorgeous.


----------



## Cuda1169

Jason Priestley said:


> I have not gotten this TV calibrated. What would that actually do from an IR perspective? I did wait about 250 hours before any gaming. My gaming is about 1/3 of usage. Never saw IR (that would last more than a few seconds) with any other game. I have noticed that after watching a lot of full screen content that the band is diminished but still noticeable (went about a week). Then I played the game again and the IR returned again. I also typically watch 30-60 minutes before playing and try to watch some full screen content after I'm done gaming. I don't know. Perhaps I'll just have to stop playing destiny and move onto another game.
> 
> I had read others post on the ZT60 thread that their IR became more noticeable and more stubborn after 1500-2000 hours of owning the TV. Its disappointing because when I put on a blu-ray this television is truly gorgeous.


Certainly calibration always helps. Unfortunately the newer Panasonics seem susceptible to IR. Greater care may have to be taken which sadly takes more time. You can try running the pixel flipper overnight a few times per week and running as much full screen content as possible even when you are not watching the panel. Good Luck.


----------



## B T C

The apparent IR susceptibility of the VT60 & ZT60 is certainly disappointing. I can't help but feel like it defines/modifies/impacts my viewing habits.

I'm trying like hell to baby my "new" VT60. I had my first real IR encounter after watching Monday Night Football this week, and they actually seem to do a decent job of not displaying an overwhelming amount of static content. I also have a 55" VT60 that might have a permanent case of mild IR/burn, so I'm very careful with the 65" to change channels every so often etc. if what I'm watching contains any static content. 

I'm confident that this is temporary, but I can't help but wonder how easy it would be to permanently burn/damage the panel.

Having said that, these televisions produce an amazing image.


----------



## Bazzy

Hi All,

Firstly, just to make things clear, I am an idiot & take full responsibility for what I have done so feel free to berate me as you deem fit!.

I have a 51" Samsung Plasma (PS51E6500) that has been in use now for about 2 years. It was broken in for about 400 hours with reduced settings to age the panel in evenly & help with things like IR & BI as per forum recommendations. The various screen burn protection features were also employed from the outset & then left alone to ensure they were always active.

About 6 months after purchase, I added a Set Top Box which allowed me to set a letterbox viewing option which I selected as I preferred this image look & scale of things on the picture - it just looked more normal & natural to me. Not all channels would display in letterbox - some broadcast so the whole screen was showing a picture so I have been watching a mix of both.

I very recently signed up to a satellite TV provider here in the UK called Sky TV & now have a new satellite box from them which is mandatory to use in order to view all channels. The Sky TV does not offer an option to view in letterbox format so everything is full screen.

Problem is that I have now noticed a quite dark main viewing area (grey with a pink overtone) with two distinct lighter bands at the top & bottom of the screen. Is this IR, BI & can it be removed or have I permanently damaged my Plasma?

I had read that the PSE6500 was pretty immune to IR/BI but even then, I made sure that the screen protection was always employed & took great care in the beginning.

AVS Member mailing has kindly suggested trying the Disney WOW Pixel Orbiter but I would have to import this from the USA so may do so soon but would also like to explore other options in addition. I have run some IR/Burn In video's downloaded from Youtube as well as the "IR Removal Video" posted by James Freeman a couple pages back but it has not made any difference so far.

Any help & advice you guys can give on how to remedy this issue would be very much appreciated - I feel really bad about my ignorance & stupidity at allowing this to happen.

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy!


----------



## hockeynut

Bazzy,

I feel your pain. I've had my Samsung for a couple of years with no problems whatsoever with IR or burn-in. That is until I played EA NHL 14. I now have HONDA burned in the bottom right of the screen along with some stars need the upper middle of my screen. This was from constantly being logged into the HUT area. 

I should have known better. I have since stopped playing HUT but the damage has been done. It's been nearly a year and the images are still there.

I really think your set is in some serious trouble. That looks really bad. Good luck.


----------



## Iceberg86300

For that you're looking to reverse burn in. Need an image or loop that is black bars, only inverted. Ideally you'd have the grey scale of both areas checked, then go full black in the center, and adjust the white bars. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## ingersol1211

Is anyone else having major IR from Fox,s sports logo in the right corner?
If I watch even half an inning of the World Series I get IR. I don't know how
it is on American cable or sattelite but on my canadian shawdirect 
sattelite it's awful. My panasonic st60 seems to be getting worse as it gets
older. I now have over 5000 hrs. on it. beautiful picture on it but having to
run the scrolling bar overnight to remove IR after watching Fox sports sucks.


----------



## Bazzy

Hi hockeynut,



hockeynut said:


> Bazzy,
> 
> I feel your pain. I've had my Samsung for a couple of years with no problems whatsoever with IR or burn-in. That is until I played EA NHL 14. I now have HONDA burned in the bottom right of the screen along with some stars need the upper middle of my screen. This was from constantly being logged into the HUT area.
> 
> I should have known better. I have since stopped playing HUT but the damage has been done. It's been nearly a year and the images are still there.
> 
> I really think your set is in some serious trouble. That looks really bad. Good luck.


Sorry to hear about your issues as well. May I ask, what did you try to get get of theBI/IR? Since it has been a year & the damage is still there I am beginning to wonder if any options might be effective for my issue?



Iceberg86300 said:


> For that you're looking to reverse burn in. Need an image or loop that is black bars, only inverted. Ideally you'd have the grey scale of both areas checked, then go full black in the center, and adjust the white bars.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Hi iceberg863000,

Many thanks for the info - as I am a novice on these things, do you know where I might be able to get such a image and/or loop like the one you mentioned? How would I go about ensuring that the grey scale of both areas are checked & matching this image to it for best results? Is there a guide out there which some one can follow & apply?

Many Thanks,
Bazzy!


----------



## 80sGuy

hockeynut said:


> Bazzy,
> 
> I feel your pain. I've had my Samsung for a couple of years with no problems whatsoever with IR or burn-in. That is until I played EA NHL 14. I now have HONDA burned in the bottom right of the screen along with some stars need the upper middle of my screen. This was from constantly being logged into the HUT area.
> 
> I should have known better. I have since stopped playing HUT but the damage has been done. It's been nearly a year and the images are still there.
> 
> I really think your set is in some serious trouble. That looks really bad. Good luck.


I had the word DENON burned in my Panasonic 42" Plasma (TC-P42G25) for well over six months from my receiver setup! Thought that was the end. I did pretty much everything from letting multiple color slides overnight, frequency snow, and cartoon network. Little by little after six months, my screen is back to normal. These are nothing but 'heavy image retention' and tend to stick longer than the normal IR. No worries, just watch lots of regular TV and reduce your gaming time. It is also important that you have your setting as follows:
Brightness: 52
Contrast: 49
Though the settings might seem a bit low but I'm lucky to have one of the last models with THX mode.


----------



## Iceberg86300

There is really no guide for this kind of thing. It looks to me from the pictures that you have true uneven aging of the pixels, aka burn in, and honestly, I've never seen anything like that/that bad/that shape.

I don't hit trade shows because this stuff isn't day job, so don't know if manufacturers bring any examples, you'd probably have have sign a non disclosure before ever setting foot in the back room to see it anyway.

Got any warranty left by any chance? You'd have to go through the manual and ENTIRE warranty/disclaimer/license/etc documents with a fine tooth comb looking for ANYTHING regarding extended viewing of logos, static images, video games, etc. Basically anything they could turn into “letterbox,” and this only applies if letterbox and any damage references don't appear as exclusions.

Back in the 80's when I was a kid if a family had a CRT with picture issues like your plasma would be replaced IF/WHEN possible and a kid or another room would get the bad TV. But I lived in a pretty blue collar town, so the if/when were major question marks. 

So, after putting more thought into it, I'd recommend replacement if possible, a full calibration to try to dial out that severe red push, a combo of video processor and calibration (processor is a good investment overall, and while I have gained dealer pricing on DVDO & Lumagen, and offer discounts to anyone who purchases that combo, it still runs from $1500 (i need to check the price on the DVDO again) and up, up, up, up depending on the total system for calibration, and what processor is chosen), last option if you're on a really tight budget, is to pick up one of the calibration test disks that a calibrator like me would use (calibrator uses them for test patterns only, and which one depends on the degree to which they fit our gear and which translates into more automation; but in secret we watch the super geeky versions to stay on our toes  ) and some kind visual reference for a 10-point greyscale adjustment, or use your eyes alone. 

Just an aside from 2006 when I was ISF certified, even with all the gear (and that meant all gear, even if you dropped $15k on a meter) a small 10” CRT B&W reference monitor was pushed. Called it optical comparator, not even sure it was reference class, but it tracked gamma and greyscale in a near perfect fashion throughout the range. Unfortunately, I think they were already discontinued and very tough to find. Mostly used as a sanity check because even perfect #'s from a meter could produce far from even adequate results. Sometimes the colors in the greyscale pattern would be obvious (there should be none), other times, post calibration reviews just didn't “look right,” and the optical comparator would confirm this fact. “Back in this time,” (not even 10 years ago!! LOL) 2 point greyscale was the norm, and during the class we used sets with easily found and usable calibration controls (no service menus) from manufactures I've never heard of. But they were still 2 point, and while with some sets you could get very tracking, most required a trade off as 2 point affected the ~30 and ~70 IRE windows the most, and also IRE levels around those points (IRE is just a value for greyscale intensity, ranging from 0 (black) to 100 (intense white), and ideally these screens are made up of the same amount/intensity of red, green, and blue). If your set has 10 point controls, then you could probably get halfway close to a good picture, at least in the center, just using your eyes. You won't get the benefits of a calibration, like making sure red is the correct red, etc, but at this point any improvement would be welcome.

There are many test discs like Avia, Spears & ?, etc. Some are very simple, other are more in depth in explaining theory and what you're doing. I recommend the latter.

I THINK your old box was set up incorrectly, at least in one setting, the TV type. If this was set to 4:3 that explains why the letterbox looked more correct for you. The new box should have the same setting, and TV controls or opened up settings in the box after setting 4:3 instead of 16:9, could then letterbox the content for you. May look horrible (stretching/squishing) but with the correct setting combo it should look like it did before, bu the red push will still be there, and it won't be true HD.

Do you have the model of your box?

A lot of info here, and what I proposed before would be a last resort, but it COULD bring the set back to “normalish” or it could introduce something worse. Either case, it would take about the same time you have been watching letterbox. 

So the best option now, short of a new set, would be to watch how you did before with a calibration to get rid of the red and hopefully a good greyscale. Calibrator should be able to find on the net, but you have to tell him/her you want the most basic thing they can offer. Or give it a shot by eye with a test disc. No harm in trying as it can always be defaulted.

I'll check out the DVDO to see if will scale 16x9 into letterbox. Definitely need your box model # though, if you don't find a TV setting.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## wfarrell4

The F8500 that I just received seems WAYYYYY less prone to IR than the C550 I'm coming from. During break in the c550 was exceedingly prone. I have yet to see a hint of IR on the new set.


----------



## Iceberg86300

What did the 8500 cost you? Size? F is a 2013 model correct?

I'm always on here and don't even have plasma LOL. My dad bought a 60es6500, and it drives me nuts with the blooming. When it was brand new all kinds of things drive me nuts, but now after a year and half it's only the blooming on a black screen or dark scenes. 

The weird part is that is totally non symmetrical. Blooming in the 4 corners is about the same, by it then there is a splotchy area that starts about 1/3 down from the top, then goes almost right to the middle of the panel. It's about 12 inches wide if you draw 2 parallel lines from the edge to the middle of the screen. Just a crappy splotchy black.

Really wish he went for a 7500 or 8500 instead.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Bazzy

Iceberg86300 said:


> There is really no guide for this kind of thing. It looks to me from the pictures that you have true uneven aging of the pixels, aka burn in, and honestly, I've never seen anything like that/that bad/that shape.
> 
> I don't hit trade shows because this stuff isn't day job, so don't know if manufacturers bring any examples, you'd probably have have sign a non disclosure before ever setting foot in the back room to see it anyway.
> 
> Got any warranty left by any chance? You'd have to go through the manual and ENTIRE warranty/disclaimer/license/etc documents with a fine tooth comb looking for ANYTHING regarding extended viewing of logos, static images, video games, etc. Basically anything they could turn into “letterbox,” and this only applies if letterbox and any damage references don't appear as exclusions.
> 
> Back in the 80's when I was a kid if a family had a CRT with picture issues like your plasma would be replaced IF/WHEN possible and a kid or another room would get the bad TV. But I lived in a pretty blue collar town, so the if/when were major question marks.
> 
> So, after putting more thought into it, I'd recommend replacement if possible, a full calibration to try to dial out that severe red push, a combo of video processor and calibration (processor is a good investment overall, and while I have gained dealer pricing on DVDO & Lumagen, and offer discounts to anyone who purchases that combo, it still runs from $1500 (i need to check the price on the DVDO again) and up, up, up, up depending on the total system for calibration, and what processor is chosen), last option if you're on a really tight budget, is to pick up one of the calibration test disks that a calibrator like me would use (calibrator uses them for test patterns only, and which one depends on the degree to which they fit our gear and which translates into more automation; but in secret we watch the super geeky versions to stay on our toes  ) and some kind visual reference for a 10-point greyscale adjustment, or use your eyes alone.
> 
> Just an aside from 2006 when I was ISF certified, even with all the gear (and that meant all gear, even if you dropped $15k on a meter) a small 10” CRT B&W reference monitor was pushed. Called it optical comparator, not even sure it was reference class, but it tracked gamma and greyscale in a near perfect fashion throughout the range. Unfortunately, I think they were already discontinued and very tough to find. Mostly used as a sanity check because even perfect #'s from a meter could produce far from even adequate results. Sometimes the colors in the greyscale pattern would be obvious (there should be none), other times, post calibration reviews just didn't “look right,” and the optical comparator would confirm this fact. “Back in this time,” (not even 10 years ago!! LOL) 2 point greyscale was the norm, and during the class we used sets with easily found and usable calibration controls (no service menus) from manufactures I've never heard of. But they were still 2 point, and while with some sets you could get very tracking, most required a trade off as 2 point affected the ~30 and ~70 IRE windows the most, and also IRE levels around those points (IRE is just a value for greyscale intensity, ranging from 0 (black) to 100 (intense white), and ideally these screens are made up of the same amount/intensity of red, green, and blue). If your set has 10 point controls, then you could probably get halfway close to a good picture, at least in the center, just using your eyes. You won't get the benefits of a calibration, like making sure red is the correct red, etc, but at this point any improvement would be welcome.
> 
> There are many test discs like Avia, Spears & ?, etc. Some are very simple, other are more in depth in explaining theory and what you're doing. I recommend the latter.
> 
> I THINK your old box was set up incorrectly, at least in one setting, the TV type. If this was set to 4:3 that explains why the letterbox looked more correct for you. The new box should have the same setting, and TV controls or opened up settings in the box after setting 4:3 instead of 16:9, could then letterbox the content for you. May look horrible (stretching/squishing) but with the correct setting combo it should look like it did before, bu the red push will still be there, and it won't be true HD.
> 
> Do you have the model of your box?
> 
> A lot of info here, and what I proposed before would be a last resort, but it COULD bring the set back to “normalish” or it could introduce something worse. Either case, it would take about the same time you have been watching letterbox.
> 
> So the best option now, short of a new set, would be to watch how you did before with a calibration to get rid of the red and hopefully a good greyscale. Calibrator should be able to find on the net, but you have to tell him/her you want the most basic thing they can offer. Or give it a shot by eye with a test disc. No harm in trying as it can always be defaulted.
> 
> I'll check out the DVDO to see if will scale 16x9 into letterbox. Definitely need your box model # though, if you don't find a TV setting.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Hi Steve,

Many thanks for your long & informative post - tbh, I am quite limited in my technical prowess & certainly do not have the knowledge, tools nor abilities to carry out or explore some of your more detailed solutions - I would have to employ a professional with all the expensive gear to attempt to try to deal with the issue & I fear that would end up costing quite a fair amount!

The TV is still under warranty but I am not sure if the retailer and/or Samsung will honour it based on the issue as I fear they might simply state that BI/IR is not covered under warranty? If you look at the pics I posted, you will find that there are no image or TV Channel Logos - just a the main viewing area that has darkened from normal use - how is one supposed to watch TV broadcasts/DVD's that automatically revert to widescreen without then having to worry about this sort of thing?

I read briefly the Samsung Manual for my TV & it states that Samsung _*"We highly recommend you use 16:9 mode most of the time"*_ with regards to screen size. 

It does however give a warning stating _*"Do not watch in 4:3 format for a long time. Traces of borders at the left, right & centre of the screen may cause image retention (screen burn) which is not covered by the warranty"*_

I have used only either 16:9 or Screen Fit and never 4:3 so I am wondering if this might help me with any warranty claim? Samsung state no such warning about watching in Screen Fit or Letterbox/Widescreen - what are your thoughts on this?

You mentioned Test Discs - I will look at the Spears Disc but would like to ask if you also feel the Disney WOW disc might be any good with their "Pixel Flipper"? A HDNation video states pretty much that it gets rid of IR/BI but I am unsure!

As far as the model of my old STB - it is a Teknika FreeviewHD STB - model: STBHDIS2010. Manual link below:

http://ttselectrical.custhelp.com/c...L3NpZC8zMzhWWFM1bQ==/filename/STBHDIS2010.pdf

My new Sky Satellite Receiver Box currently in use is a Sky+HD Box - model No: DRX890W: Manual link below:

http://storage.sky.com/help/DRX890W_SkyPlusHDUserGuide.pdf

I know I am ultimately at fault for not being knowledgeable about these things & making some assumptions but after reading from so many sources how BI/IR was a thing of the past & how bulletproof the Samsung Plasmas are against this sort of thing - I also kind of feel extremely bad that it has happened to the extent that it has & how very difficult & long it might take to remedy it if at all. 

Do you have any idea of how much a replacement panel might cost?

Appreciate your help & the efforts you are making!

Bazzy!


----------



## Iceberg86300

Apologies, being in the “biz” I can go off with tech stuff for days! Honestly, I think you're looking at a new set. 4:3 directly translates letterbox, so I think any warranty is out. By all means check though. But TECHNICALLY, it doesn't say anything about top and bottom, although center may be being used to cover all bases. May get lucky on the phone, if not, you need to make ONE HELL OF A STINK!! Demand supervisers, read the manual back to them, they may give you “obviously that meant letterbox too”, to which you reply it doesn't say anything about that in the manual! Prepare to get berated.

If you have a plasma nowadays, the WOW disc is basically a must. Will it help your current TV, I don't think so. 

I THINK the Spears & whoever disc is the one that goes into very good detail, as well as giving you every pattern you'd need to be a calibrator. You can do it by eye, but at the very l least you need a reference. Even a friend's TV hooked up next to yours. It will only be as good as eyes and the other TV, (a combo that could make a really bad by the #'s cal, but at least you won't be seeing pink).

I'll check those boxes.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## plasmalover8

*Samsung pn64h5000*

Hello I bought a Samsung pn64h5000 and have put somewhere between 100-150 hours on it. Like an idiot I ran it in torch mode. 

I started gaming for the first time 2 weeks ago. I played long sessions sometimes 6 hours. I noticed screen retention and it has been on scroll for 2 days now. I'm not seeing any improvment.

Is scrolling better than solid white screen? Should I keep it in torch mode when scrolling?

If this doesn't go away is it possible to replace pixels? Or ask newegg for another tv. 

Also during the time gaming the image that has retained was never on longer than 20-25 minutes without going to menus or something.


----------



## Johnla

No you can not replace individual or even groups of pixels in a plasma TV's display panel/screen, you would need to replace the entire panel.

One thing is for sure, Newegg will not give you a replacement for a TV that has IR or burn in. And if you think you can send it back without telling them it has it, and they test the TV and see it, you will not get a replacement TV or a refund from them, and you will get dinged for shipping both ways when they send you that same one back to you.


----------



## Cuda1169

plasmalover8 said:


> Hello I bought a Samsung pn64h5000 and have put somewhere between 100-150 hours on it. Like an idiot I ran it in torch mode.
> 
> I started gaming for the first time 2 weeks ago. I played long sessions sometimes 6 hours. I noticed screen retention and it has been on scroll for 2 days now. I'm not seeing any improvment.
> 
> Is scrolling better than solid white screen? Should I keep it in torch mode when scrolling?
> 
> If this doesn't go away is it possible to replace pixels? Or ask newegg for another tv.
> 
> Also during the time gaming the image that has retained was never on longer than 20-25 minutes without going to menus or something.


Is your IR visible under normal TV or Movie Viewing? If so, your best bet is to calibrate the panel, yourself or professionally, and run the Disney WoW pixel flipper for several hours or days depending on the severity of your IR.

Good luck.


----------



## caloyzki

Cuda1169 said:


> Is your IR visible under normal TV or Movie Viewing? If so, your best bet is to calibrate the panel, yourself or professionally, and run the Disney WoW pixel flipper for several hours or days depending on the severity of your IR.
> 
> Good luck.


hi, may i ask why prof. calibrated tv will help getting rid of IR/BI?


----------



## Cuda1169

caloyzki said:


> hi, may i ask why prof. calibrated tv will help getting rid of IR/BI?


Calibration won't get rid of any IR you currently have. But proper calibration will bring your panel into balance and can help prevent future IR. In the meantime you can self calibrate using a disc or use someone elses calibrated settings for your panel. Either one is better than torch mode. Before my professional calibration I used both David Katzmaier's and D-Nice's ST50 settings for my panel. D-Nice's seemed better suited for my environment but your mileage may vary. That said, both paled when compared to the result of my professional calibration.


----------



## plasmalover8

Thanks for replies. I was was wrong about the tvs hours. I have over 500 hours on it. I used Xbox one calibration feature and contrast and brightness are about 51 50 now.


----------



## plasmalover8

OK, after reading a bit about image retention and burn in, I have an idea.

Since burn in is caused by uneven wear of pixels could I plug my computer up to the screen and open paint. After that take a small black dot and fill in every spot of burn in.
Wouldn't that Burn the rest of the pixels to match the current burn in?


----------



## Cozmo85

plasmalover8 said:


> OK, after reading a bit about image retention and burn in, I have an idea.
> 
> Since burn in is caused by uneven wear of pixels could I plug my computer up to the screen and open paint. After that take a small black dot and fill in every spot of burn in.
> Wouldn't that Burn the rest of the pixels to match the current burn in?


Theoretically yes.
The best thing to do would be, if its like a HUD from a game. Take a screenshot of the game, invert it and white out everything but the hud.


----------



## plasmalover8

Ok. I'm not to savy when it comes to paint and photoshop. How would I take a screen shot of the hud from Xbox?


----------



## alduflux

I just bought a Samsung 60" f8500. I am hoping to find info regarding proper break in slide settings. Can someone direct me to what settings to run with the tv if I use break in slides. Are break in slides recommended or should I skip them? My last plasma was five years ago (Panny g25) and I'm out of date with the current recommendations.


----------



## Cozmo85

alduflux said:


> I just bought a Samsung 60" f8500. I am hoping to find info regarding proper break in slide settings. Can someone direct me to what settings to run with the tv if I use break in slides. Are break in slides recommended or should I skip them? My last plasma was five years ago (Panny g25) and I'm out of date with the current recommendations.


I just ran the burn protection scroll when i wasn't using the tv.


----------



## Dos-ma

Hey I've had the same issue. Were you able to do anything to get rid of the IR?


----------



## Cuda1169

alduflux said:


> I just bought a Samsung 60" f8500. I am hoping to find info regarding proper break in slide settings. Can someone direct me to what settings to run with the tv if I use break in slides. Are break in slides recommended or should I skip them? My last plasma was five years ago (Panny g25) and I'm out of date with the current recommendations.


You can go to the link below for color slides. The usual recommendation is to the use color slides and as much logo free, full screen content as possible for the first 100-200 hours.
http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm

All the slides really do is age the pixels evenly while the panel is still new. I personally ran the slides whenever I was not watching my panel for first couple of weeks. Just watching full screen content works as well. Have fun and enjoy your panel.


----------



## Chere

^^^^ Apologize if I've missed this before but whatever happened to the 120 version of the Evangelo slides? I downloaded em a couple of years back and have been using them ever since but I noticed they're not available on the website any more


----------



## Cuda1169

Chere said:


> ^^^^ Apologize if I've missed this before but whatever happened to the 120 version of the Evangelo slides? I downloaded em a couple of years back and have been using them ever since but I noticed they're not available on the website any more


I don't know. You'll be fine with the smaller number of slides or just watching full screen content.


----------



## Koose

What should the cell light and/or contrast and/or brightness settings be set to when running the break-in color slides for the first 100 hrs on the Samsung F8500?


----------



## Cuda1169

Koose said:


> What should the cell light and/or contrast and/or brightness settings be set to when running the break-in color slides for the first 100 hrs on the Samsung F8500?


I don't know about cell light but most people reduce contrast & brightness during the first 100-200hrs.


----------



## ikecomp

Let me first say I recently bought an LG60PB6650 and love the picture but this thread is outrageous. I come from a projector/LCD background so I'm still learning about plasmas. Although I knew they were more susceptible to burn in than most technologies and I didn't think it was this bad. I also heard that IR is almost non-existent these days due to better technology. I got a deal on the plasma that I just couldn't pass up but I'm starting to think I may need to go in a different direction as it may require more preventative maintenance than I was expecting. Especially considering I have people in my house who may not know better when it comes to watching certain types of content.

The set will be used for 40% movies, 45% gaming and 15% cable programming. In my usage case Should I look be looking at an LCD or should I be fine with this tv? Please note my tv has a special mode which shifts pixels every 2 minutes to help prevent burn-in. Would this be sufficient enough to help prevent burn in?


----------



## perchancetodream

ikecomp said:


> The set will be used for 40% movies, 45% gaming and 15% cable programming. In my usage case Should I look be looking at an LCD or should I be fine with this tv? Please note my tv has a special mode which shifts pixels every 2 minutes to help prevent burn-in. Would this be sufficient enough to help prevent burn in?


The short answer is: no.
Definitely get an LED, save yourself the headaches!


----------



## Josh H 2

ikecomp said:


> The set will be used for 40% movies, 45% gaming and 15% cable programming. In my usage case Should I look be looking at an LCD or should I be fine with this tv? Please note my tv has a special mode which shifts pixels every 2 minutes to help prevent burn-in. Would this be sufficient enough to help prevent burn in?


As long as you don't do anything outrageous with your tv (leave CNN on a 24 hr loop or leave a game paused for example) you should be fine. I cant say much about the pixel shift (in theory it should work, my tv has it... but I have no burn in/IR and cant really say why one way or another), but most plasma's are not as easily burned in as they have been in the past... As well, most have screen savers that will automatically turn on if they sense the screen has been displaying a static image for a certain amount of time.

Bottom line for you,
It's a matter of personal preference more than anything. Plasma's still have the best PQ generally, but if you are that concerned about burn in and image retention, get yourself an LED (one with local dimming like the Samsung F8000 or the cheaper Vizio's) and as long as you never bring a plasma home to compare it to you will be happy as a clam!


----------



## ikecomp

Josh H 2 said:


> As long as you don't do anything outrageous with your tv (leave CNN on a 24 hr loop or leave a game paused for example) you should be fine. I cant say much about the pixel shift (in theory it should work, my tv has it... but I have no burn in/IR and cant really say why one way or another), but most plasma's are not as easily burned in as they have been in the past... As well, most have screen savers that will automatically turn on if they sense the screen has been displaying a static image for a certain amount of time.
> 
> Bottom line for you,
> It's a matter of personal preference more than anything. Plasma's still have the best PQ generally, but if you are that concerned about burn in and image retention, get yourself an LED (one with local dimming like the Samsung F8000 or the cheaper Vizio's) and as long as you never bring a plasma home to compare it to you will be happy as a clam!



Thanks for the info. I see a lot of votes in both directions (Plasma will be fine for gaming, I should get LED instead). I'm not overly worried but wanted to get an idea of what I was getting myself into. I noticed last night that after 5 minutes of having my DVR paused on the screen, the screen saver kicked in. It actually is quite nice. It shrinks whatever image is on the screen into a square and it bounces the square around the screen. 

At any rate, I've really been enjoying this TV so it's too late to return at this point. I only paid $600 for it so if it ends up having major retention issues I will consider it a lesson learned and move on. 

Thanks again everyone for your input.


----------



## 80sGuy

The general consensus: go easy on the first 200 hours. Set your Contrast & Brightness to under 50 (preferably 47-48). Watch a combination of contents, stuff like Animal Channel, Food Channel. Basically stuffs with lots of colors and action that covers the whole screen, not just letterbox movies. For gaming, there should be a separate 'Gaming Mode' but be careful as most of them are set very high, if so, reduce the contrast/brightness or customize one and save for gaming use. 

Image Retention is normal for Plasmas. It usually goes away when the screen is filled with brightly lit materials such as ones I mentioned above. I have a 2011 Panasonic Viera Plasma (TC-P42G25) and it is still working flawlessly to this day. I watched everything and been consistently using it for at least 3-4 hours day/evening. Zero burns and little to no image retentions. The trick is this: before turning the TV off I usually tune into a channel with colorful contents, ones that covers the whole screen for a minute or so to 'even-out' the panel. Now this is just me and one should not need to stretch too far for such care, but it is all to your discretion. In the end of a day, NOTHING beats a plasma!


----------



## perchancetodream

@ikecomp:

Please report back after 6 months - 1 year of 45% gaming and 15% cable programming . . . I would be interested in how you fared.


----------



## striker01

Hey guys,

Just purchased a new LG 50pb6600 tonight. 

Are there any specific measures to take calibrate or break it in? 

Thanks!


----------



## B T C

I've been looping the Disney WOW content on my 55" VT60 in Vivid mode. The Blu-Ray content does not seem to kick in the ABL like the pixel flipper and slides. I think it's helping a bit with some IR/Burn in the lower right corner of the screen, but I'm really not sure. I know it's not completely gone, and I'm not sure it ever will be. It's only visible with bright screen content, and I definitely think it's gotten better since I first noticed it. I still think my 55" has a better picture than my 65" VT60, but it's got quite a few more hours on it.


----------



## jdoren1990

Hey guys I just bought my first plasma (Samsung F5300) and i am trying to make sure i burn it in correctly. I am currently on the cinema mode preset with the brightness and contrast turned down to 50%. Their is also something called cell light which is at max (20) the stock setting should this be changed? pretty much all i have been doing is running movies repeatedly. I make sure they are full screen and not letterbox and i will continue to do this for about 100 hours before i try to calibrate anything. My main concern is am i doing this right and is it nessecary to turn down brightness and contrast? the picture seems so dark now it is hard to watch movies and forget trying to do any kind of gaming.

Thanks =]


----------



## Cuda1169

B T C said:


> I've been looping the Disney WOW content on my 55" VT60 in Vivid mode. The Blu-Ray content does not seem to kick in the ABL like the pixel flipper and slides. I think it's helping a bit with some IR/Burn in the lower right corner of the screen, but I'm really not sure. I know it's not completely gone, and I'm not sure it ever will be. It's only visible with bright screen content, and I definitely think it's gotten better since I first noticed it. I still think my 55" has a better picture than my 65" VT60, but it's got quite a few more hours on it.


If you IR is fading it is not burn-in and will likely fade completely overtime. The pixel flipper works best on my panel, an ST50.


----------



## Cuda1169

jdoren1990 said:


> Hey guys I just bought my first plasma (Samsung F5300) and i am trying to make sure i burn it in correctly. I am currently on the cinema mode preset with the brightness and contrast turned down to 50%. Their is also something called cell light which is at max (20) the stock setting should this be changed? pretty much all i have been doing is running movies repeatedly. I make sure they are full screen and not letterbox and i will continue to do this for about 100 hours before i try to calibrate anything. My main concern is am i doing this right and is it nessecary to turn down brightness and contrast? the picture seems so dark now it is hard to watch movies and forget trying to do any kind of gaming.
> 
> Thanks =]


As long as your panel is not at max brightness and contrast for the first 200hrs you will be ok. Just watch as much fullscreen logo free content as you can during this time. I'd also recommend self or professional calibration.


----------



## B T C

Cuda1169 said:


> If you IR is fading it is not burn-in and will likely fade completely overtime. The pixel flipper works best on my panel, an ST50.


I think it's fading, but I can't really swear that it is. It does seem like it's harder to see than when it was first identified, but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. On the VT60, the pixel flipper kicks in ABL. Looping full screen content does not.

The set in question was a demo at a friend's small electronics store in my hometown. He estimated 300 hours of usage, but it actually had just over 1000 hours on it when I bought it. I did no research prior to purchase and bought on impulse when I learned that the sets were no longer available. I've put 800-900 hours on the set, most of which has been screen wiping, pixel flipping, full screen content looping etc. in an effort to get rid of the IR.

I have to say, I was disappointed, and bit freaked out, when I learned the susceptibility these sets seem to have to IR. I wish I had known prior to buying the 55". I would have looked for IR and either not bought the set, or paid considerably less. I've since found a brand new 65", so I now I have 2 VT60's. IR issues aside, they produce an excellent picture.


----------



## Cuda1169

B T C said:


> I think it's fading, but I can't really swear that it is. It does seem like it's harder to see than when it was first identified, but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. On the VT60, the pixel flipper kicks in ABL. Looping full screen content does not.
> 
> The set in question was a demo at a friend's small electronics store in my hometown. He estimated 300 hours of usage, but it actually had just over 1000 hours on it when I bought it. I did no research prior to purchase and bought on impulse when I learned that the sets were no longer available. I've put 800-900 hours on the set, most of which has been screen wiping, pixel flipping, full screen content looping etc. in an effort to get rid of the IR.
> 
> I have to say, I was disappointed, and bit freaked out, when I learned the susceptibility these sets seem to have to IR. I wish I had known prior to buying the 55". I would have looked for IR and either not bought the set, or paid considerably less. I've since found a brand new 65", so I now I have 2 VT60's. IR issues aside, they produce an excellent picture.


If you are running the pixel flipper turn off the Vivid setting. This will reduce ABL.


----------



## Vegeta

Which is better to eliminate stubborn IR on a Pioneer KURO 9g, a scrolling thin white bar or the Disney WOW pixel flipper?


----------



## Cuda1169

Vegeta said:


> Which is better to eliminate stubborn IR on a Pioneer KURO 9g, a scrolling thin white bar or the Disney WOW pixel flipper?


The scrolling bar times out on my panel after 15 minutes so I don't use it. I prefer the WoW pixel flipper.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Also, you can always use a gray scale test pattern of 70-100 IRE. I've always said 80 IRE, but I THINK during my ISF class Joel said 100 IRE. 

This was before pixel flippers. I've made that statement many times, but after some thinking I've realized I shouldn't state that in a factual manner. I need to research that. Especially as I roll ALL IR tools except the use of a gray scale pattern into the “this was pre pixel flipper.” I've been blindly making that statement due to the fact that nothing beyond a gray scale pattern was even mentioned for the care of a plasma.

This included the use of a 100 IRE pattern for the first ~200 hours to season the panel, as well as for getting rid of IR. Also, those 200 hours were to be continuous. Not necessarily 200 hours straight, but 200 hours of nothing but the test pattern. Being steadfast in this seasoning process was to make the panel less susceptible to IR, as well as making it easier to get rid of any IR. 

The latter was to be used long before any IR began to show itself during normal viewing. If you had something static on the screen, such as a gaming HUD, station logo, ticker, etc, for the better part of a day you just threw up a pattern overnight. 

In my opinion this kind of “prevention” should be utilized whenever possible. Obviously this doesn't prevent IR, but it should get of IR that can only be faintly seen on certain test patterns or that can't be seen at all. This will prevent IR from getting to the point of being visible when watching content.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Vegeta

Cuda1169 said:


> The scrolling bar times out on my panel after 15 minutes so I don't use it. I prefer the WoW pixel flipper.


I have an MP4 that has a white scrolling bar which I can play via my Blu-Ray player in a loop. Would that be more effective as I believe it would not trigger ABL as much as the pixel flipper.


It's similar to this: 



 

Also, shouldn't burn-in be visible on a black screen also? My old Panasonic PX80 had a channel logo burn-in and it could be clearly seen on a white slide as well as a black slide/screen. With my Pioneer 9g I can see a slightly dark patch which doesn't seem to have any real shape resembling a logo on a white screen but I can't see it at all on a black slide/screen. Is this burn-in, something else or is it because Pioneer drive their screens differently from Panasonic?


----------



## Cuda1169

Vegeta said:


> I have an MP4 that has a white scrolling bar which I can play via my Blu-Ray player in a loop. Would that be more effective as I believe it would not trigger ABL as much as the pixel flipper.
> 
> 
> It's similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LegAkKYOQTc
> 
> 
> Also, shouldn't burn-in be visible on a black screen also? My old Panasonic PX80 had a channel logo burn-in and it could be clearly seen on a white slide as well as a black slide/screen. With my Pioneer 9g I can see a slightly dark patch which doesn't seem to have any real shape resembling a logo on a white screen but I can't see it at all on a black slide/screen. Is this burn-in, something else or is it because Pioneer drive their screens differently from Panasonic?


Many on this forum swear by the WoW pixel flipper, myself included. If the screen wipe is not working, I recommend turning off the Vivid mode and running the pixel flipper at your regular viewing settings. I typically run my pixel flipper once a month over night, though running full screen content on one of HBO channels seems to have the same effect. YMMV though.

True burn-in is always visible depending on the colors displayed on screen. The only true burn-in I have ever witnessed is on low end plasmas at one of my local sports bars that run ESPN all day everyday. During commercial breaks the ESPN banner at the bottom of the screen is always visible regardless of what is displays.


----------



## gossamer88

Honestly, I'm not sure how effective these solutions are. I got tired of running them and seeing little improvement.

I simply watched my regular programming and one day I noticed it was gone.


----------



## Cuda1169

gossamer88 said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure how effective these solutions are. I got tired of running them and seeing little improvement.
> 
> I simply watched my regular programming and one day I noticed it was gone.


Exactly right, watching full screen programming also removes IR.


----------



## Srikzquest

Hi, I just got a new samsung pn60f8500 and with a time of 10hrs roughly. Unknowingly, my wife watched a movie with black bars in netflix for 90 mins while I was away. I have Cell light set to 14, Brightness and Contrast set to 35 at this point for the break-in period and watching full screen content in Netflix until this moment. I, at least with my eyes am unable to see black IR on the screen now but does it affect the TV in the long run due to the irregular phosphor aging and is there anything I can do to reverse the impact? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Cuda1169

Srikzquest said:


> Hi, I just got a new samsung pn60f8500 and with a time of 10hrs roughly. Unknowingly, my wife watched a movie with black bars in netflix for 90 mins while I was away. I have Cell light set to 14, Brightness and Contrast set to 35 at this point for the break-in period and watching full screen content in Netflix until this moment. I, at least with my eyes am unable to see black IR on the screen now but does it affect the TV in the long run due to the irregular phosphor aging and is there anything I can do to reverse the impact?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


It's easy to get paranoid reading this thread. Your panel will be fine, enjoy.


----------



## Srikzquest

Cuda1169 said:


> It's easy to get paranoid reading this thread. Your panel will be fine, enjoy.


 Thanks for the calming words...


----------



## QuiGonJosh

Srikzquest said:


> Hi, I just got a new samsung pn60f8500 and with a time of 10hrs roughly. Unknowingly, my wife watched a movie with black bars in netflix for 90 mins while I was away. I have Cell light set to 14, Brightness and Contrast set to 35 at this point for the break-in period and watching full screen content in Netflix until this moment. I, at least with my eyes am unable to see black IR on the screen now but does it affect the TV in the long run due to the irregular phosphor aging and is there anything I can do to reverse the impact?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Black bars from letterbox movies or 4:3 content are not a problem. IR from bright channel logos or gaming HUD's are usually the most troublesome as far as IR is concerned, but as long as you vary content from time to time, it's not an issue.


----------



## B T C

QuiGonJosh said:


> Black bars from letterbox movies or 4:3 content are not a problem.



I don't believe that is necessarily true. I've seen several posters report IR issues from watching too much letterboxed content.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

B T C said:


> I don't believe that is necessarily true. I've seen several posters report IR issues from watching too much letterboxed content.


Probably more than half of the hours on my Panasonic UT50 were from letterbox Blu-ray's on Screen Fit and I never had any IR problems at all...and that set is pretty prone to IR from logos and HUD's.


----------



## B T C

QuiGonJosh said:


> Probably more than half of the hours on my Panasonic UT50 were from letterbox Blu-ray's on Screen Fit and I never had any IR problems at all...and that set is pretty prone to IR from logos and HUD's.


Does screen fit fill the screen? 

If you search these forums, you will find cases of users encountering IR or Burn In from watching too much letter boxed content. Therefore, I would disagree with the statement that it's not a problem. It obviously can, and does, happen.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

B T C said:


> Does screen fit fill the screen?
> 
> If you search these forums, you will find cases of users encountering IR or Burn In from watching too much letter boxed content. Therefore, I would disagree with the statement that it's not a problem. It obviously can, and does, happen.


I'm sorry, it's Screen Fit on the Samsung. On the Panasonic it's Aspect Adjustment 2. It's 1 to 1 pixel. No overscan and the pixel orbiter is disabled too with this function. No IR.


----------



## B T C

QuiGonJosh said:


> I'm sorry, it's Screen Fit on the Samsung. On the Panasonic it's Aspect Adjustment 2. It's 1 to 1 pixel. No overscan and the pixel orbiter is disabled too with this function. No IR.


Check out post 5361 of this thread.


----------



## weekendtoy

Hello,


I have a Panasonic ST50 plasma that I bought back when they first came out, maybe two years now. I ran the colored slides for what was it? 100hours? Can't quite remember. After that I calibrated the system using Spears and Munsil.


At the time I was playing a lot Catan on the xbox360. I didn't use the set at all until the slides were done and then proceeded to use it as I normally would. The game has cards that that show up for each player in the corners of the screen.


For the last two years now on certain bright screens I can see the outline of those cards in the lower left corner. I've run the set's pixel scroller for good chunks of time and can't get rid of it. I didn't think these sets where prone to burn-in but mine sure seems to have. Kind of a bummer.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

B T C said:


> Check out post 5361 of this thread.


I'm sorry, but that has not been my experience at all and I would estimate that my Panasonic UT50 has a few thousand hours on it and around half of those from letterbox films. I notice no uneven wear or IR on the slides or during viewing. I know Panasonic's are prone to IR more than others too. I've yet to experience any on my Samsung F5300 and I've been playing a lot of games too. I don't watch cable or sports, so no experience with IR there.


----------



## Cuda1169

weekendtoy said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic ST50 plasma that I bought back when they first came out, maybe two years now. I ran the colored slides for what was it? 100hours? Can't quite remember. After that I calibrated the system using Spears and Munsil.
> 
> 
> At the time I was playing a lot Catan on the xbox360. I didn't use the set at all until the slides were done and then proceeded to use it as I normally would. The game has cards that that show up for each player in the corners of the screen.
> 
> 
> For the last two years now on certain bright screens I can see the outline of those cards in the lower left corner. I've run the set's pixel scroller for good chunks of time and can't get rid of it. I didn't think these sets where prone to burn-in but mine sure seems to have. Kind of a bummer.


Sorry to hear about your panel's IR. The ST50s are hit and miss where stubborn IR is concerned. I have a ST50 as well. The built in pixel scroller is useless on my panel. You can try the Disney WoW pixel flipper for several hours/days this has helped many. Now I just run full screen HBO content, which is logo free, and this works just as well. Good Luck.


----------



## mhundred

So I've had my LG plasma for about a year now and I've just noticed on the side of the screen a faint burn-in of the CNN logo of all things. I'm not sure if this something that happened early into the TV's life that I never noticed prior or more recently? but obviously i'd like to fix it.

So I ran my TV's colorwash for about 8 hours or so last night but the image still appears there. Did I not run it long enough or is the color wash mode just ineffective period to remove a burn-in?


----------



## Cuda1169

mhundred said:


> So I've had my LG plasma for about a year now and I've just noticed on the side of the screen a faint burn-in of the CNN logo of all things. I'm not sure if this something that happened early into the TV's life that I never noticed prior or more recently? but obviously i'd like to fix it.
> 
> So I ran my TV's colorwash for about 8 hours or so last night but the image still appears there. Did I not run it long enough or is the color wash mode just ineffective period to remove a burn-in?


I recommend you watch as much full screen logo free content as possible. It will eventually fade. If you're in a hurry you could run the Disney WoW pixel flipper whenever you are not watching the panel. Good Luck.


----------



## ikecomp

I posted in this thread a little while back on my LG plasma. I ended up returning it (unrelated to IR or burn-in. I actually had something I can only describe as a flashing pixel or light. very strange). At any rate, after trying a couple of LED tv's I'm back to using a samsung plasma. Although, I'm not concerned about burn in as much as I used to be I decided to just purchase a $99 protection plan from my local best buy. I would normally get a square trade warranty but one thing the square trade warranty doesn't cover is burn-in on plasma tv's which the best buy plan does cover. I doubt I'll need it but it does provide a little piece of mind. Thought I'd mention it since not many warranties out there cover this type of damage.


----------



## Iceberg86300

ikecomp said:


> I posted in this thread a little while back on my LG plasma. I ended up returning it (unrelated to IR or burn-in. I actually had something I can only describe as a flashing pixel or light. very strange). At any rate, after trying a couple of LED tv's I'm back to using a samsung plasma. Although, I'm not concerned about burn in as much as I used to be I decided to just purchase a $99 protection plan from my local best buy. I would normally get a square trade warranty but one thing the square trade warranty doesn't cover is burn-in on plasma tv's which the best buy plan does cover. I doubt I'll need it but it does provide a little piece of mind. Thought I'd mention it since not many warranties out there cover this type of damage.


What are the details for the warranty? Got a link to it online by any chance? I know those can vary quite a bit, but if you model of the tv I'm sure best buy will try to hawk a warranty once I add it to my cart. 

In assuming Best buy sells both square trade and their own protection plan correct? I haven't even been inside a Best buy in over a year. They've really gone downhill compared to ~13 years ago. I really only visit a Best buy to go to Magnolia's nowadays. Last thing I bought was a pioneer elite A/V. Parents bought a TV stand a few years ago. Both were primarily because of the 10% off for opening a credit line, but also piece of mind because they're everywhere and easy to return stuff if needed.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Srikzquest

QuiGonJosh said:


> Black bars from letterbox movies or 4:3 content are not a problem. IR from bright channel logos or gaming HUD's are usually the most troublesome as far as IR is concerned, but as long as you vary content from time to time, it's not an issue.


Thanks for the assuring words...


----------



## QuiGonJosh

Srikzquest said:


> Thanks for the assuring words...


I think channels like ESPN are the worst offenders since I believe they're logos and news crawls are on even during commercials. I don't have cable and use my plasma for movies and games only, but I believe that's true.


----------



## cre0

About to start the break in on my Samsung PN60F5300B.

First thing I did with the TV was turn contrast down to 45 (from preset 100).

At first I ran the tv with the slideshow feature, but after about 20 minutes I realized a loading box appeared 
in the upper right hand corner of the plasma when a new picture/slide would load.

I did not like that so I got a laptop out, and started using the Windows Photo screensaver (which works well). I had it
going for about 10min and I walked away for 10-15. I came back to a prompt that woke the screensaver.

I freaked out because I did not know how long the picture was sitting there, but it could not have been more than 10-15min.

As soon as I saw it I started running the light bar, and while doing that I shutdown every service on the Windows laptop
that could cause that to happen again. I do not think I saw any burn-in or IR. After going from the slideshow player in the
tv to HDMI connected to a laptop it feels like the picture quality improved.

After this I re-ran the screensaver for 1.5 hours with no interruption. After this I shut the tv off after running the light bar
again to make sure I didnt screw anything up.

Cell Light: 12
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 45
Black Tone: OFF (Does this need to be off during break in?)
Dynamic Contrast: OFF (Does this need to be off during break in?)
Eco Mode: OFF



I want to have safe settings during break-in, and I was wanting to know if the settings I have currently
with eco mode off (it seems alot brighter than if eco mode is set to low) will hurt the tv during break-in.

Any other settings that you could offer for the break-in period for a Samsung would be great.

I have tried to read this entire thread over the course of a couple weeks, learned alot from it, but still feel
skittish about break-in. 

Let me know if these settings are ok or if Eco Mode should be on. If you have any other settings that the plasma
would benefit from please let me know.

Thanks.


----------



## B T C

QuiGonJosh said:


> I'm sorry, but that has not been my experience at all and I would estimate that my Panasonic UT50 has a few thousand hours on it and around half of those from letterbox films. I notice no uneven wear or IR on the slides or during viewing. I know Panasonic's are prone to IR more than others too. I've yet to experience any on my Samsung F5300 and I've been playing a lot of games too. I don't watch cable or sports, so no experience with IR there.


Your experience clearly isn't universal. IR/Burn In related to letterboxed content obviously can, and does, happen.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

B T C said:


> Your experience clearly isn't universal. IR/Burn In related to letterboxed content obviously can, and does, happen.


Which is why I didn't say that it was universal. Notice how I started off with "my experience..." 

I have four plasmas right now and none of them show IR that lasts more than a few seconds, if at all, after watching letterbox films.


----------



## B T C

QuiGonJosh said:


> Which is why I didn't say that it was universal. Notice how I started off with "my experience..."
> 
> I have four plasmas right now and none of them show IR that lasts more than a few seconds, if at all, after watching letterbox films.


Not to nitpick, but your original statement with regards to letterbox content was



QuiGonJosh said:


> Black bars from letterbox movies or 4:3 content are not a problem.


----------



## ikecomp

Iceberg86300 said:


> What are the details for the warranty? Got a link to it online by any chance? I know those can vary quite a bit, but if you model of the tv I'm sure best buy will try to hawk a warranty once I add it to my cart.
> 
> In assuming Best buy sells both square trade and their own protection plan correct? I haven't even been inside a Best buy in over a year. They've really gone downhill compared to ~13 years ago. I really only visit a Best buy to go to Magnolia's nowadays. Last thing I bought was a pioneer elite A/V. Parents bought a TV stand a few years ago. Both were primarily because of the 10% off for opening a credit line, but also piece of mind because they're everywhere and easy to return stuff if needed.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


You can check out the different warranty details by going here. You would then download the most recent version of the terms and conditions to see what is included.

http://www.geeksquad.com/protection-plans/terms-and-conditions.aspx


----------



## azbda1

I'm a newbie to AVS, just trying to get good info on how to break in a new plasma. I have a PN64F8500 on order with a confirmed delivery date of 12/23. I've read much of this thread and learned a lot, but there's a ton of info and some conflicting advise....to be expected. If anyone with experience cares to comment, what are the first things that I should do after I receive the unit. I plan to unpack and inspect the unit when it's delivered, let it come up to room temperature, then watch action movies with lots of movement. Am I on the right track or am I missing something?


----------



## breezy2012

I had my first IR scare yesterday.

I've owned my f8500 for a few months and I've watched all types of content without issue: long letter-boxed movies, older 4:3 TV shows. all kinds of sports, etc. About a month ago I watched the entire season of Survivor:Fiji on Amazon Prime in a few days. It's broadcast in 4:3, but I saw no IR after any episode and never gave it a second thought.

A few days ago I started Survivoranama and was about 10 episodes in when I binged about 4 or 5 episodes in a row two nights ago. I was drifting a bit and probably not paying as close of attention as I should have been, and when I decided to exit Prime after the end of an episode my heart skipped a beat. Sure enough - there was a clear gray outline of the left side border visible after exiting the show. This was unlike any IR I had ever witnessed and I panicked a bit; it was easily visible no matter what was on the screen. I immediately decided to scroll for a while just to be safe. Next I decided to play some sharp colorful content so I streamed some episodes of Lost through Netflix.

I decided to check again after a few episodes had finished and the screen looked ok, but careful examination revealed the outline was still there, especially during bright scenes (ocean, beach). The right edge line of the border box was still particularly clear. I decided to let it scroll overnight. The next morning (to my relief) it seemed undetectable, but on a gray menu screen the outline of the border is still slightly visible. It's almost gone. I'm going to let the set scroll for another night.

How did this happen? I thought sets get less IR prone with age, not more. Can I no longer risk watching 4:3 content? Why was the IR only on the left side of the screen?

*scratches head*


----------



## breezy2012

Thanks to the overnight scroll the IR seems to be completely gone now. I checked the left side of the screen up close under every imaginable condition and can't detect the outline any more. Whew.

I'm still a little burned by this (no pun intended). I don't know how I'll ever comfortably watch 4:3 content again. I'm even scared of letterbox now. To make matters worse - my BR extended edition of LotR trilogy arrived not too long ago and I haven't opened it yet.


----------



## KOA

After you get your TV up and running rent or buy the BR version of The Fall.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0460791/


----------



## QuiGonJosh

breezy2012 said:


> Thanks to the overnight scroll the IR seems to be completely gone now. I checked the left side of the screen up close under every imaginable condition and can't detect the outline any more. Whew.
> 
> I'm still a little burned by this (no pun intended). I don't know how I'll ever comfortably watch 4:3 content again. I'm even scared of letterbox now. To make matters worse - my BR extended edition of LotR trilogy arrived not too long ago and I haven't opened it yet.


It went away after a several hours of using the wipe, but it would have just as easily gone away with you watching full screen content enjoying your TV, probably faster actually. The trouble is you watched too much 4:3 content during a marathon style viewing. When you do something like that again, just give take a few breaks here and there and let the TV run in full screen for a bit. 

Are you using the light grey bars for 4:3 content? I've never had a problem with letterbox BD's on any of my sets, but I think for whatever reason 4:3 is more susceptible to IR.


----------



## breezy2012

QuiGonJosh said:


> It went away after a several hours of using the wipe, but it would have just as easily gone away with you watching full screen content enjoying your TV, probably faster actually. The trouble is you watched too much 4:3 content during a marathon style viewing. When you do something like that again, just give take a few breaks here and there and let the TV run in full screen for a bit.
> 
> Are you using the light grey bars for 4:3 content? I've never had a problem with letterbox BD's on any of my sets, but I think for whatever reason 4:3 is more susceptible to IR.


My set defintely has become IR prone in 4:3. I watched another episode of Survivor (this time on YouTube) and the outline of black border boxes remained visible for some time after the episode was over. I didn't wipe, rather just let some full screen content play and they eventually melted away. I believe I do have the bars set to light grey; I'll have to check to be sure.

I guess it's one 4:3 show at a time for me from now on. No more survivor binges.


----------



## 80sGuy

All of you are too paranoid about burn-ins. I was once like that when I bought my TC-P42G25. Here's what you can do:
Set your Contrast and Brightness below 48. If you see heavy image-retention for days (or burn-ins if you like), unplug your cable or antenna and run the 'static snow' overnight, followed by tuning in to a cartoon channel for a few hours. Keep on watching contents covering the entire screen and it will disappear little by little. This will take some time. I remembered setting up my new set with a Denon receiver and the logo got stuck on the screen for months, doing what I mentioned has corrected the problem, but it took 3 months!


----------



## breezy2012

The f8500 has a good screen wipe app so I'm not sure the static is necessary. 

You might be right, though. But the IR from the 4:3 viewing that I described was way more prominent than anything I saw the first few months I had the set. It definitely contributed to my paranoia.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

breezy2012 said:


> My set defintely has become IR prone in 4:3. I watched another episode of Survivor (this time on YouTube) and the outline of black border boxes remained visible for some time after the episode was over. I didn't wipe, rather just let some full screen content play and they eventually melted away. I believe I do have the bars set to light grey; I'll have to check to be sure.
> 
> I guess it's one 4:3 show at a time for me from now on. No more survivor binges.


It's strange how 4:3 content produces IR, while letterbox films don't. I watched the Extended Desolation of Smaug BD yesterday from beginning to end with no breaks and had no IR at all. Try to use the light bars if you can or if you're using a cable box it might have that feature as well.


----------



## Cuda1169

breezy2012 said:


> The f8500 has a good screen wipe app so I'm not sure the static is necessary.
> 
> You might be right, though. But the IR from the 4:3 viewing that I described was way more prominent than anything I saw the first few months I had the set. It definitely contributed to my paranoia.


Static and pixel flippers work best, imo. You could also stretch your 4:3 content to full screen to help with that specific IR. The stretched image will be a bit distorted but will relieve your 4:3 IR concerns. Good luck and enjoy your panel.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^To avoid 4:3 contents looking stretched, you can use the remote from your TV and 'zoom in' to cover the screen. You will lose a bit on top and bottom but better than anything looking weird and all stretched up. Depending on your cable box setup (I'm with Charter) it should automatically switch into 'normal' mode when you tune into HD channels, where the screen should look normal, then reverts back to 'zoom' when tuned to subsequent SD 4:3 contents vice/versa. Do this for a while and the screen will uniformly aged along, then you shouldn't have any problems with heavy image-retentions after watching 4:3 or letterboxed contents. If so, it will quickly wash away.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Last box I had that switched resolutions was with time Warner about 7 years ago and it SUCKED!! Probably a combo of the box switching and an older CRT rear projection TV, it looked like it was trying blow everything up. 

How does yours work for you? In sure things have progressed quite a bit in 7 years.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## 80sGuy

The 'zoom' was controlled by the TV and not from the cable box. It retains picture quality much better with virtually zero loss of degradation. Although you can also zoom-in from the cable box but the quality is horrible, it is only use for switching in between resolution.


----------



## Tom Riddle

breezy2012 said:


> The f8500 has a good screen wipe app so I'm not sure the static is necessary.
> 
> You might be right, though. But the IR from the 4:3 viewing that I described was way more prominent than anything I saw the first few months I had the set. It definitely contributed to my paranoia.


The F8500 is prone to IR from the letterbox bars, but it dissapers in a very short amount of time after switching to fullscreen. Not an issue in my opinion. I wouldnt worry about using pixel flippers or anything, just vary your content.


----------



## James Freeman

On a Panasonic ST60 I turn on the "Screen Wipe" for about 15 seconds to evenly excite the pixels BEFORE using the TV, or immediately after I turn on the screen.
I have noticed that when I turn on the set after its being off overnight, it is the time when the pixels are the most prone to burn-in/ retention because they have been dormant.
After I'm done watching (mainly 2.39:1 movies), I run the sweeper for about 5 minutes.
I have made this routine a habit for maximum plasma life till OLED comes along.
No burn-ins or retention whatsoever.

I have noticed that the worst you can do to a plasma screen in terms of retention or burn-in is flash it with strong white text after a dormant period.
For example, turning on the menu when the set was just turned on.

Note I only use the plasma for my HTPC via HDMI so the screen is completely black (my background) when I plug in the HDMI or extend the desktop.


----------



## Vandy58

Well I started a new thread on this from my phone without seeing this sticky. So I have a ST60 that I primarily use for gaming. I have had it for a year and a half and never did a break in on it. I have probably only put 100 hours into it up until Monday when I noticed that one of the games I play decided to retain the hub into the TV as this hub does not go away. I have run the screen wipe and I think it dimmed it but only just a little. I purchased the WOW disc and ran the pixel tool for 11 hours over night, I am not sure if it really did anything. I have also kept it on playing nothing but movies for 15 hours a day for the past couple of days. When playing the movies should I bump the contrast up? When the IR happened the contrast was set at 44. Anything else I should be doing? Tonight I did the wow disc for about two hours and now it is playing non stop HD Encore. The IR is only visible one a light back screen not on a dark screen.


----------



## Cuda1169

Vandy58 said:


> Well I started a new thread on this from my phone without seeing this sticky. So I have a ST60 that I primarily use for gaming. I have had it for a year and a half and never did a break in on it. I have probably only put 100 hours into it up until Monday when I noticed that one of the games I play decided to retain the hub into the TV as this hub does not go away. I have run the screen wipe and I think it dimmed it but only just a little. I purchased the WOW disc and ran the pixel tool for 11 hours over night, I am not sure if it really did anything. I have also kept it on playing nothing but movies for 15 hours a day for the past couple of days. When playing the movies should I bump the contrast up? When the IR happened the contrast was set at 44. Anything else I should be doing? Tonight I did the wow disc for about two hours and now it is playing non stop HD Encore. The IR is only visible one a light back screen not on a dark screen.


Good news is that is sounds like the IR is already starting to fade some. Given how many hours you have been gaming on the panel it may take several days of the WoW pixel flipper or full screen movies before you see significant reduction of the IR. 

Good Luck.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

I have to say, for whatever reason, the Panasonic's are much more prone to IR. I have an older PX80U and a UT50 and the UT50 especially is very prone to IR. For a couple of weeks I had an ABC logo from watching the NBA Finals and now I have another logo stuck there. My two Samsung's exhibit no IR whatsoever, either from station logos or game HUD's.


----------



## 80sGuy

My 42" G25 plasma retains very subtle IR. I watch A LOT of MSNBC and all those other financial news so you can imagine, but my set doesn't suffer as much IR due to the fact that I have both Brightness and Contrast set below 50, to be exact I had them at 47 & 48 THX Mode/Warm2 -- just enough depth, color, brightness w/o the overkill! 
Knock on wood, but going on 3 years now w/o a mark.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Vandy58 said:


> Well I started a new thread on this from my phone without seeing this sticky. So I have a ST60 that I primarily use for gaming. I have had it for a year and a half and never did a break in on it. I have probably only put 100 hours into it up until Monday when I noticed that one of the games I play decided to retain the hub into the TV as this hub does not go away. I have run the screen wipe and I think it dimmed it but only just a little. I purchased the WOW disc and ran the pixel tool for 11 hours over night, I am not sure if it really did anything. I have also kept it on playing nothing but movies for 15 hours a day for the past couple of days. When playing the movies should I bump the contrast up? When the IR happened the contrast was set at 44. Anything else I should be doing? Tonight I did the wow disc for about two hours and now it is playing non stop HD Encore. The IR is only visible one a light back screen not on a dark screen.


Put that puppy in vivid and load up some fullscreen content - and make sure it's truly fullscreen. It will go away with some time, don't worry about it. Stay away from the game until it dissappears.


----------



## bgx90

*Can I fix uneven screen wear cause by gray pillar bars by using black pillar bars?*

I have a Samsung F8500 plasma TV and I watched full screen material for a break-in period of over 100 hours. Lately, I have been watching quite a bit of 4:3 material using the gray pillar bars. During this time I have kept fullscreen material in the mix and regularly used the TV's grayscale scrolling feature to try to keep the phosphor aging consistent across the panel, but it looks like I did not do this enough. The areas occupied by the pillar bars now show up as dim rectangles on either side of the brighter 4:3 area in the center of the panel when I put a perfectly white screen up on the display (the left one is a bit dimmer than the right for some reason) . I think that this has happened because the gray pillars are significantly brighter than the shows I have been watching, most of which are quite dark (I am speaking of brightness levels here. ). I found the quote below in this thread, and it seems to support my thinking.



bodosom said:


> If the pillarbox is brighter than the average picture level (APL) of the 4:3 area then the pillar area will age more and be *dimmer*. If the pillarbox is darker than the 4:3 area then it will age less and be *brighter* when a gray field is displayed.


So, I have 2 questions:

1) Is it likely that I can remedy this uneven aging by using black pillar bars (possibly viewing a white screen or the grayscale scroll on occasion) for a while and allowing the central part of the screen to age faster than the sides and catch up to them in terms of phosphor dimness?

2) If the answer to the first question is yes, would selecting the pillar bar color based on the brightness of the material I am viewing help to mitigate or prevent this kind of uneveness in the future?

Thanks in advance for any input.


----------



## Iceberg86300

bgx90 said:


> I have a Samsung F8500 plasma TV and I watched full screen material for a break-in period of over 100 hours. Lately, I have been watching quite a bit of 4:3 material using the gray pillar bars. During this time I have kept fullscreen material in the mix and regularly used the TV's grayscale scrolling feature to try to keep the phosphor aging consistent across the panel, but it looks like I did not do this enough. The areas occupied by the pillar bars now show up as dim rectangles on either side of the brighter 4:3 area in the center of the panel when I put a perfectly white screen up on the display (the left one is a bit dimmer than the right for some reason) . I think that this has happened because the gray pillars are significantly brighter than the shows I have been watching, most of which are quite dark (I am speaking of brightness levels here. ). I found the quote below in this thread, and it seems to support my thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1) Is it likely that I can remedy this uneven aging by using black pillar bars (possibly viewing a white screen or the grayscale scroll on occasion) for a while and allowing the central part of the screen to age faster than the sides and catch up to them in terms of phosphor dimness?
> 
> 2) If the answer to the first question is yes, would selecting the pillar bar color based on the brightness of the material I am viewing help to mitigate or prevent this kind of uneveness in the future?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input.


If you check a few pages back you'll see a set like yours, but not sure how yours relates to that one. Initially I suggested the exact course of action you're thinking about. However, upon further thought, I think it will be much more complicated to actually pull this off.

First off, the panel is very dynamic, during the inversion and watching full s screen stuff and putting up a 100 IRE full screen slide (or pixel flipper, but when I went through ISF before pixel flippers a 100 IRE slide was recommended) the IR (or burn in if really is that bad) with become less noticeable. 

Also, the HUGE area of concern is the border between center screen and the bars. Unless you can blend that transition you'll never get rid of the problem, your brain will always see it.

Now let's skip back a paragraph. While watching 4:3 the center screen is producing all kinds of colors while the bars are only producing one. Problem here is that the RGB phosphors don't age at the same rate. Gray bars are essentially a lab test on your panels phosphor aging rates because it's a constant color, while the center has basically been producing a different color 24, 30, 48, & 60 times a second or some multiple thereof unless you've been watching content that heavily towards one color. (if that's even possible, still don't understand how manufactures quote 120 and 240 Hz when the standard TV signal has been 60Hz forever, as the 60Hz AC power has always served as the “clock.” To actually refresh that fast the set would have to have a delay built in so it could “look ahead” (a bit of control theory there) a few screens or frames and interpolate between frames. But I've never fed a boat anchor and a modern s set the same signal and strobed them or looked for delays, so I don't know. Sorry about the tangent!)

You can see a couple examples of this here, along with your set if it's truly burn in. One is what I referenced earlier in this thread, it has a horrible red component outside the center. Many many others can be found in the Kuro thread. Pioneer didn't have a crystal ball to nail the uneven aging so they took a stab at it and unfortunately missed. So their algorithm to compensate for aging based on panel time produced progressively worse gray scale. 

So that's the background, here's the meat and potatoes. To do this “properly” you want to check the gray scale of the center and the bars from 0-100 IRE. Normally readings would be the same, but you'll see a big difference. Readings from the center will be your reference to compare to the bars as the center has seen normal viewing. Now the tricky part. Depending on the comparison you throw up colored slides in whatever area that reads higher in that color while leaving the other area “off.” Regardless of the how bad (or good) the gray scale is in the center, at this point you just want the center to match the bars. Hopefully you set has a picture position adjustment. You can use this to move the slide around to blend the that crisp line.

You'll want to track the gray scale often during the process to adjust what you're putting on the screen.

When it's close you then calibrate to d65, or as close as possible.

At least this is how I would go about it. But only after several days of displaying a 100 IRE slide to see if things get any better. 

Grab some pics if you can. If it's that bad and you don't want to purchase/have access to the tools, you can try the simple inversion. There is really nothing to lose. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## bgx90

Steve, thanks for the information and advice. I tried to get some pictures of the screen, but my camera just couldn't capture what my eyes are seeing. I currently don't have a colorimeter but I am interested in getting one. The only snag is that I am a Linux user and it the software used with the meters I have seen are Windows-based. I could create a virtual Windows machine to run the software, but I would like to find examples of other people having success with this. I would hate to buy a meter and find out that I can't use it because of the software. There is an open hardware colorimeter called ColorHug that comes with a Linux live disk with the software needed to use it, but because it is meant to be used to calibrate monitors, it only generates a small color window in the middle of the screen. If anyone knows of a Linux solution for TV calibration, I would love to hear about it. End of tangent.

As Steve suggested, I put up a fullscreen white slide for a while. I'm not sure if it is 100 IRE, though. I just used a 10 hour video of a white screen from YouTube, because it was what I could find. Another thing I did was to set my pillar bars to black and switch to 4:3 occasionally to put more wear on the center of the screen. While in 4:3 mode, I set the pixel orbiter to shift to its maximum (4 pixels) horizontally and not all vertically every minute (the shortest time available) in order to blur the borders of the pillars. I alternated between viewing the white screen using this arrangement and fullscreen. I also played a video that flipped through red, green, blue, black, and white slides in both arrangements. To my eyes, the difference between the pillars bar areas and the center area has diminished after doing this. So what I am thinking of doing is this. First, I will do as Steve suggested and use a full white screen for several days and stick to fullscreen content. If the problem persists, I will display the white screen and colored slides as described above every day for a few hours each and watch only fullscreen material for a while until the panel evens out. If I watch any 4:3 material during this time, I will set the pillar bars to black and the pixel orbiter as above so that the center wears faster and the lines between it and the pillar bar areas will be blurred. During all of this, I will keep checking my progress with the full white screen. The goal of this regimen is to age the center of the panel to match the pillar bar areas as closely as I can without a meter and blur the border between these areas so that, hopefully, the fullscreen material will eventually normalize the panel (at least to human eyes). Of course, if I find a colorimeter that works for me, I will just do what Steve has suggested. As always, any input is welcome.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Don't waste your money on that meter. Very cheap and not sure if will work with plasma. I thought I saw CRT support, which is direct view like plasma, but just don't know. To be accurate you would need access to a spctro like the i1, or have a calibrator with a spectro come in and profile the meter for your TV. Basically calibrating the meter for your TV.

Actual gray scale value isn't much of a concern as long as it's on the higher end of the scale. I have the spears & munsil v2 pattern disk on a USB drive, so I'll see if I can extract the 11 gray scale and some color slides.

I'd continue with the process you describe as it's shown nearly immediate results. But also toss up an 80-100 IRE full screen or a pixel flipper to try to ”normalize” the screen after running 4:3 content. When getting my cert the status quo was to run a high IRE slide for ~100-200 hours to “season” the panel before watching ANY content. After this period it was ideal to calibrate the display. Then, if IR reared its ugly head the high IRE slide would be used for a couple of nights.

As things are progressing quickly I'd say with enough time using a flipper/white screen combo would bring it to a non noticeable state, or at least very close. I'm assuming what you have is nothing like the example found a few pages back in this thread, for that one I'd set it to always use 4:3 and limo tint the side bars. 

As you are getting results fairly quickly you need to be careful so you don't invert the problem. That's where the white screen comes into play as described earlier. 

After getting a uniform panel (or as close as possible) you'll definitely want to get it calibrated, or calibrate it yourself. You can rent a kit for ~15 days, and if you have a group of friends that want a calibration and will split the cost the cost per person can become way less than reasonable. Also, for the price, the spears V2 BD & Disney discs are a great investment. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## B T C

The NBC logo that was prominently displayed during this weekend's NFL playoffs wreaked havoc on my 65VT60. IR had clearly set in before the game was over.


----------



## Cuda1169

B T C said:


> The NBC logo that was prominently displayed during this weekend's NFL playoffs wreaked havoc on my 65VT60. IR had clearly set in before the game was over.


This is quite normal on my 60ST50 as I get very temporary IR from NBC logo during football games. Its not visible under normal viewing on my panel and disappears very quickly.


----------



## bgx90

Iceberg86300 said:


> Don't waste your money on that meter. Very cheap and not sure if will work with plasma. I thought I saw CRT support, which is direct view like plasma, but just don't know. To be accurate you would need access to a spctro like the i1, or have a calibrator with a spectro come in and profile the meter for your TV. Basically calibrating the meter for your TV.
> 
> Actual gray scale value isn't much of a concern as long as it's on the higher end of the scale. I have the spears & munsil v2 pattern disk on a USB drive, so I'll see if I can extract the 11 gray scale and some color slides.
> 
> I'd continue with the process you describe as it's shown nearly immediate results. But also toss up an 80-100 IRE full screen or a pixel flipper to try to ”normalize” the screen after running 4:3 content. When getting my cert the status quo was to run a high IRE slide for ~100-200 hours to “season” the panel before watching ANY content. After this period it was ideal to calibrate the display. Then, if IR reared its ugly head the high IRE slide would be used for a couple of nights.
> 
> As things are progressing quickly I'd say with enough time using a flipper/white screen combo would bring it to a non noticeable state, or at least very close. I'm assuming what you have is nothing like the example found a few pages back in this thread, for that one I'd set it to always use 4:3 and limo tint the side bars.
> 
> As you are getting results fairly quickly you need to be careful so you don't invert the problem. That's where the white screen comes into play as described earlier.
> 
> After getting a uniform panel (or as close as possible) you'll definitely want to get it calibrated, or calibrate it yourself. You can rent a kit for ~15 days, and if you have a group of friends that want a calibration and will split the cost the cost per person can become way less than reasonable. Also, for the price, the spears V2 BD & Disney discs are a great investment.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Thanks again, Steve. I actually have the Spears and Munsil disc around here someplace, though I am not sure if it is version 2. I did an eyeball calibration using that disc and some numbers from cnet as a starting point. It's funny that you mention the Disney WOW disc, because I ordered it earlier today primarily for the pixel flipper. I figured it would be good to have since almost everything I watch is movies and old television shows from the 4:3 days. It's really hard to find 16:9 content that I like. I knew this might be an issue when I chose plasma, but it is just so much better to my eyes than anything else I've looked at. Oh well, such is life.


----------



## GentleMentalMan

Hey guys. I'm new to Plasmas or any flat HDTVs being in my home. I've got some bad image retention across the whole screen of my Samsung PN51F300 from watching an all-night marathon of a video game stream. The program was displayed in boarders for long/uninterpreted amounts of time. Example below:










I'm talking about an entire night with that displayed. Picture Mode was set to Dynamic, Energy Saving was OFF, & Pixel Shift was OFF. Now I'm seeing these faint remnants of the boxed lines in the frames of that show I watched & the logos as well. It's slightly noticeable while watching something with a bright image on screen, but the worst is that this is IR across the entire screen. This IR is from about Saturday & I noticed it this past Monday. Since then, I ran Samsung's Grey Scrolling feature 3 times so far for about 5 hours each & even let an antenna static screen run for a bit too. The logos have seemed to fade a bit, but the line boarders are still prevalent, especially since it's in the center of the screen.

Am I dealing with permanent burn-in guys? I honestly didn't even hear of the term until I noticed this. I've had this plasma for 5 months now & I don't know if it "broke-in" or not, it's hardly used. Is there any remedy with this 2013 model plasma or am going to have to deal with it? I appreciate any advice.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Five months is definitely too soon especially if you're not using it that much. The minimum break-in time (per my Panasonic) is 200 hours, meaning during those periods you should be gentle with what's being displayed. What you're describing is heavy 'image-retention' and will take some time for it to go away. The best thing to do is keep on watching regular programs with full screen contents and very importantly; set the Brightness and Contrast below 50 (preferably 47/48). You can also tune to a cartoon channel and let it run for a few hours a day while you're doing something else (having dinner, doing chores, etc..). Make sure the screen is fully covered. Also, during the break-in period, set your TV to 'zoom' for all 4:3 or SD contents to full screen. Your TV (along with your cable box if using) should remember how to 'auto tune' leaving HD in normal viewing mode, and zoomed as described for SD.


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## GentleMentalMan

^ I'm going to do this starting right now! That's just more reason for me to start watching Archer.

Anyhow, thanks for the reassuring advice. Hopefully this isn't permanent. When in using the Sammy grey scroll, the IR I'm seeing is faint white if near the edges of the screen, while any IR in the center is a faint/light pink or very light brown. I thought the latter colors might be an indication of burn-in, but I'll give it a month or so before I make that conclusion.

I just bought my father an LG 60PB6650 plasma, but I'll be sure to take every precaution with the settings on that TV to avoid this crap mine is having.


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## Tom Riddle

^In additon to that, don't use Dynamic mode for normal viewing - this will cause image retention with almost anything. Standard mode should be plenty bright at it's normal settings to suffice any room.


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## Vandy58

Tom Riddle said:


> Vandy58 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I started a new thread on this from my phone without seeing this sticky. So I have a ST60 that I primarily use for gaming. I have had it for a year and a half and never did a break in on it. I have probably only put 100 hours into it up until Monday when I noticed that one of the games I play decided to retain the hub into the TV as this hub does not go away. I have run the screen wipe and I think it dimmed it but only just a little. I purchased the WOW disc and ran the pixel tool for 11 hours over night, I am not sure if it really did anything. I have also kept it on playing nothing but movies for 15 hours a day for the past couple of days. When playing the movies should I bump the contrast up? When the IR happened the contrast was set at 44. Anything else I should be doing? Tonight I did the wow disc for about two hours and now it is playing non stop HD Encore. The IR is only visible one a light back screen not on a dark screen.
> 
> 
> 
> Put that puppy in vivid and load up some fullscreen content - and make sure it's truly fullscreen. It will go away with some time, don't worry about it. Stay away from the game until it dissappears.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I actually just looked at my timer and I have 1159 hours into the panel which is more than I thought. Hopefully with time it goes away


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## Vandy58

Well running pixel flipper on vivid now. Should be home around 6, hopefully it will help!


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## skeeder

Tom Riddle said:


> The F8500 is prone to IR from the letterbox bars, but it dissapers in a very short amount of time after switching to fullscreen. Not an issue in my opinion. I wouldnt worry about using pixel flippers or anything, just vary your content.


I agree--I think it gets a little lesser with age, but my set is a sub 200 hours and they do show up, if the movie is 90 minutes or 2 hours it takes about 10 minutes of other content to remove them.


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## ronton3

*Headaches*

I am replacing an 8 year old Sony SXRD rear projector. I tried a P Series Visio 4K and got headaches even after 3 weeks. Friday I set up an LG 50 6650, and am doing the break in with AVS slides and zoomed stuff etc. The eyestrain/headaches are not as bad as the LCD but still there to some extent. I have the WOW and SP 2nd editions and wonder if the pixel flipping or anything else can help resolve this problem. I really do not want to invest in repairing the Sony, I would like to keep the Plasma. Any advice appreciated. Thanks ron


----------



## Cuda1169

ronton3 said:


> I am replacing an 8 year old Sony SXRD rear projector. I tried a P Series Visio 4K and got headaches even after 3 weeks. Friday I set up an LG 50 6650, and am doing the break in with AVS slides and zoomed stuff etc. The eyestrain/headaches are not as bad as the LCD but still there to some extent. I have the WOW and SP 2nd editions and wonder if the pixel flipping or anything else can help resolve this problem. I really do not want to invest in repairing the Sony, I would like to keep the Plasma. Any advice appreciated. Thanks ron


Can you better describe your viewing environment as eyestrain can be the result of many things? Sitting too close to a screen as well as watching TV in total darkness w/o ambient light can both cause eyestrain. When I went from my 47” panel to 60” I suffered from eyestrain. I moved my viewing area back to 10 and a half feet and adding proper ambient lighting and couldn't be happier. Good luck.


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## ronton3

*Thanks*



Cuda1169 said:


> Can you better describe your viewing environment as eyestrain can be the result of many things? Sitting too close to a screen as well as watching TV in total darkness w/o ambient light can both cause eyestrain. When I went from my 47” panel to 60” I suffered from eyestrain. I moved my viewing area back to 10 and a half feet and adding proper ambient lighting and couldn't be happier. Good luck.


I moved back to 9 feet 50inch screen, I was at 6, and I am using a brighter backlight, it does seem to help. I have also put the tv in PC mode(reducing its processing) and run everything through an OPPO 103, this seems to help. I keep trying different things and it seems better. Thanks ron


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## Iceberg86300

A bit of full spectrum 6500k light _ behind _ the TV can work wonders if you can find any dimmable bulbs that don't cost a fortune. Sadly, I haven't found any that won't hurt your wallet. You want ~90% of the spectrum or better and most CFL's rated at 6500k put out harsh blue. 

Also try to tune the TV and your regular lighting for different amounts of ambient light. Wall color can make a huge difference as well, but more for picture quality, so you don't need adjustments and the TV looking like a sun on the wall. 

Of you have to, jump out PC mode and set up 2-3 modes exactly the same but with different backlight settings. Too much backlight can kill your eyes/head depending on the ambient light. So you want more during the day, and less at night. You also don't want a bunch of light sources on in evening, creating too much artificial light and requiring more backlight. You'll have to play around a bit, possibly at the expense of your SO. For example, when going from RP to LCD my mom LOVED (S) torch mode. My dad and I can't stand it. I turned on expert mode in the service menu to get cal day and cal night modes. Your LG should have ISFccc day and night modes. LG is great in that respect, one of the few main stream brands that has that feature. You obviously can't get identical pictures 24 hours a day, and the difference between settings turns a lot of people off on changing between them, but it is a really a great benefit.

If you have it calibrated much more than backlight will be different between modes, so if you have a test disk you can really benefit from setting the backlight to where y you think might want it and then setting brightness/contrast, all 3 adjustments affect each other, but for each backlight you try it only takes ~5 minutes for brightness and contrast. You can then pass the preferred backlight to the calibrator. I'd recommend doing the above regardless of your intent of calibration just because the 3 adjustments are so intertwined.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## twitchyzero

just hooked up an HTPC, what's the best win 8.1 theme/desktop background to reduce IR/BI? 

Already set to turn signal off after 1 min of inactivity...perhaps I should use a screen saver instead?

I chose pure black background because it uses the least cell light i presume?


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## Cuda1169

ronton3 said:


> I moved back to 9 feet 50inch screen, I was at 6, and I am using a brighter backlight, it does seem to help. I have also put the tv in PC mode(reducing its processing) and run everything through an OPPO 103, this seems to help. I keep trying different things and it seems better. Thanks ron


I second what Iceberg86300 said. I have used the following 6500k light behind my panel and it worked well. It does not have a dim feature though.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00390GFJS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## ronton3

Thanks for the light recommendation, I have one coming from Amazon. ron


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## twitchyzero

I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.

I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?


----------



## Iceberg86300

twitchyzero said:


> I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
> We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
> Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.
> 
> I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?


Worrisome, but fairly normal on a brand new set. I don't know _ exactly _ why this is case technically as I'm an mech engineer not a physicist or chemist, but in general terms burn in is caused by uneven aging of the phosphor in a cell which reduces its intensity, and image retention like you're seeing is caused by a residual charge build up in the cells. The very basic chemistry explanation is that an element or molecule is in some way excited beyond its normal state, and then must get rid of this extra energy to return to its normal state. Because energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted, a form of electromagnetic radiation (photons) is released, in this case some of that lies within the visible spectrum. 

In a plasma TV you have cells that are analogous to a florescent light or any other source that forms plasma gas when electricity is applied. In this case the cells are coated with a phosphor. Plasma releases a photon, photon strikes a molecule in the phosphor increasing its energy, phosphor releases a photon when it returns to its natural state.

Sorry about the technical stuff! Don't know why or how, but it all just came back to me.

So I don't why, but plasmas are more susceptible to burn in/image retention during the first ~200 hours or so. Something to do with the fact that they lose intensity/age quickly during this period. To me, this explains burn in more than image retention. You're definitely experiencing the latter given how quickly it disappears. 

During my ISF cert class * ages * ago we were taught that a plasma should be “seasoned” during this period by displaying a 70-100 IRE pattern. This served two purposes, eliminating the possibility of burn in during the peribecause reducing the chance of burn in through its life as well as greatly reducing the incidents of IR. In fact, the seasoning process was directed almost entirely towards IR, because actual burn in was touted as a thing of the past. 

After the seasoning if any IR was incurred then the remedy was to put up the same slide used for seasoning until it was gone. This was a “put up the slide when not using the display” type of thing. This was ~2006.

Nowadays it is generally accepted that _* using slide(s) only for ~200 hours is not required *_ as long you are careful while your set is an infant. The MO is to turn down the intensity and contrast, and watch varying, full screen, and logo/ticker free content. Use zoom for any non full screen content, and also zoom any content with a logo so it isn't visible. Avoid static images and don't let the source turn off so you don't get the no signal box. When going through the menus or using the smart hub you REALLY want minimum cell light and the lowest contrast possible. If you pause a program on a DVR turn off the set. 

Also, I have an ES6500 LCD and the smart hub is treated as its own input when it comes to the picture settings. So check that out to make sure the settings you want are in place.

Personally, if I was you I'd enjoy the TV but very much baby it. There's no need to cripple the tv with a slide for 200 hours, but I would put up a high IRE gray or white slide (0 IRE=black, 100 IRE=white, everything in between is gray) when not the TV is not in use so you get out of the “danger zone” more quickly. Use one of the default picture settings with the slide instead of “babying mode.” Just make sure the slide looks gray or white. You don't want a mode that is obviously skewing towards one color.

Lastly, if I picked up a plasma as a replacement for a TV that was still operational and in place, I would indeed set up the new plasma with a signal generator or test disc (I'm a calibrator) for about a week. That gets you ~175 hours. 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Tom Riddle

twitchyzero said:


> I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
> We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
> Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.
> 
> I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?


Quite normal on newer panels, and will still persist some as the panel ages. As long as it disappears, then there are no worries. I have the same set and did no break-in, don't ever run pixel flippers or screen wipes and have no issues. I just make certain to vary my content and not abuse the panel. Also, you will notice the first few times you watch letterboxed content that the lines from the bars will persist after for about 10 minutes. Goes away as the panel ages.


----------



## X-RaVer

I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )

Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.

The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..

Could it be a true Burn-in ?!

NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )

Thanks


----------



## 80sGuy

X-RaVer said:


> I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
> I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )
> 
> Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.
> 
> The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
> I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
> The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..
> 
> Could it be a true Burn-in ?!
> 
> NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )
> 
> Thanks


For the mean time, you can do a few things:
1.) set the Contrast and Brightness below 50 (I had them at 47-48 for the first 200 hours),
2.) watch something without subtitles, 
3.) watch contents at full screen instead of letterbox
4.) put the 'screen wipe' on every now and then
5.) before turning your tv off, watch something full screen for a few minutes.
6) also, find a Cartoon channel and let it play at full screen while you're doing other chores,

This can take awhile for them to go away, especially for #2 if you don't lessen it.


----------



## Cuda1169

X-RaVer said:


> I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
> I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )
> 
> Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.
> 
> The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
> I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
> The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..
> 
> Could it be a true Burn-in ?!
> 
> NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )
> 
> Thanks


Sounds like stubborn IR as true burn-in does not fade. It may take running the WoW disc several days to see further results, depending on the stubbornness of your IR. You can also just watch as much full screen, subtitle free and logo free content as possible and it will eventually fade. Once the IR is faded to your liking, I recommend you run the WoW flipper or watch full screen content after any viewing session with subtitles.


----------



## KMR

Does anyone have a reverse 4:3 image? With black in the middle and white on the sides? I've watched a lot of 4:3 content the last few weeks and I have some image retention now. I can see the border where the pillarboxing is located on either side.

I'd like to run the reverse image to see if I can even out the IR.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Just watch full-screen contents and zoom in all 4:3 materials for a few weeks. It should balance out and disappear.


----------



## Iceberg86300

KMR said:


> Does anyone have a reverse 4:3 image? With black in the middle and white on the sides? I've watched a lot of 4:3 content the last few weeks and I have some image retention now. I can see the border where the pillarboxing is located on either side.
> 
> I'd like to run the reverse image to see if I can even out the IR.





80sGuy said:


> ^^Just watch full-screen contents and zoom in all 4:3 materials for a few weeks. It should balance out and disappear.


Yeah, a few people and I talked about this here in the thread, but IMO, it's only an option if you have true burn-in, and even then you're never going to get your TV back to normal. More of a fix it for the game room or a kids TV.

I now it's a long thread, but if you put the forum settings on its largest post/page and cntrl-F name you it shouldn't take too long to find some of the discussions. I didn't really become active here until recently, so searching my posts to find maybe my 20th in this thread would be a good place to start. Or +4:3 (or letterbox) +cable +box +new in this thread, or the “all words” option, I honestly haven't used the search feature. Those parameters should get you a post from someone that includes pics of REAL burn-in. Guy is from the UK if I remember correctly, and didn't know much about HDTV / setting up the box, and the cable company screwed him. It was a plug-n-play type thing for him, and he thought what he was watching “was just the way it was.” Well, a new cable box came along and was either defaulted to the correct settings, or the installer set it up correctly.

Pictures show a HEAVY red tinge where the black bars were. 

In short, putting up a reverse image that has a minut chance of making things watchable is a pretty complex matter, and in fact can make things worse. First problem is the sharp edges. Even if you do a perfect job those edges will always be visible, at least to you. If you have ever had or used a low to midrange “professional” CRT monitor in which you could see the tension wires it's kinda of the same thing x10 (or 100!), you know what I mean, once you know it's there you will never stop seeing it. You would need to blend these edges somehow. Then, white balance. You need to “reverse age ” the panel, and because different phosphors age at different rates you need a meter to check the color blend that needs aging. Not a spyder either, think more like a ~$1000 at the very least for a spectro + having someone with a Klein or Hubble profile your meter to your TV.

But this is all goes for actual burn-in. Just take the advice already given. I would add that if you h have a test disc then you can put up an 100 IRE pattern when not watching TV. Pixel flipper works too. A test disc such as spears and munsil 2nd edition is a great (and cheap) investment, it has all the patterns you'll ever need + does a great job at explaining a dirty calibration + has video clips. You can also roll your own from the forum very quickly if you're good with computers.

I'll search as well for the post that shows actual burn-in, it's a very good reference.

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## twitchyzero

Iceberg86300 said:


> During my ISF cert class * ages * ago we were taught that a plasma should be “seasoned” during this period by displaying a 70-100 IRE pattern. This served two purposes, eliminating the possibility of burn in during the peribecause reducing the chance of burn in through its life as well as greatly reducing the incidents of IR. In fact, the seasoning process was directed almost entirely towards IR, because actual burn in was touted as a thing of the past.
> 
> After the seasoning if any IR was incurred then the remedy was to put up the same slide used for seasoning until it was gone. This was a “put up the slide when not using the display” type of thing. This was ~2006.
> 
> Nowadays it is generally accepted that _* using slide(s) only for ~200 hours is not required *_ as long you are careful while your set is an infant. The MO is to turn down the intensity and contrast, and watch varying, full screen, and logo/ticker free content. Use zoom for any non full screen content, and also zoom any content with a logo so it isn't visible. Avoid static images and don't let the source turn off so you don't get the no signal box. When going through the menus or using the smart hub you REALLY want minimum cell light and the lowest contrast possible. If you pause a program on a DVR turn off the set.
> 
> Also, I have an ES6500 LCD and the smart hub is treated as its own input when it comes to the picture settings. So check that out to make sure the settings you want are in place.
> 
> Personally, if I was you I'd enjoy the TV but very much baby it. There's no need to cripple the tv with a slide for 200 hours, but I would put up a high IRE gray or white slide (0 IRE=black, 100 IRE=white, everything in between is gray) when not the TV is not in use so you get out of the “danger zone” more quickly. Use one of the default picture settings with the slide instead of “babying mode.” Just make sure the slide looks gray or white. You don't want a mode that is obviously skewing towards one color.
> 
> Lastly, if I picked up a plasma as a replacement for a TV that was still operational and in place, I would indeed set up the new plasma with a signal generator or test disc (I'm a calibrator) for about a week. That gets you ~175 hours.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve





Tom Riddle said:


> Quite normal on newer panels, and will still persist some as the panel ages. As long as it disappears, then there are no worries. I have the same set and did no break-in, don't ever run pixel flippers or screen wipes and have no issues. I just make certain to vary my content and not abuse the panel. Also, you will notice the first few times you watch letterboxed content that the lines from the bars will persist after for about 10 minutes. Goes away as the panel ages.


Hey, Thanks for the info!

New panel will be coming in a two days.

I am someone that will baby my screen, but I can only tell my roommate so much that she already thinks I'm anal. I don't think I can get her to follow so many directions just to protect my TV.

So I dont mind a proper break-in for 100 hours to a week...ff it means less IR/BI prone for the majority of the panel life. I plan to do this first then calibrate with a Spyder Pro and the calibration menu on my BBC Life's blu-ray disc.

Some noob questions: 

Is it just a set of images/video found here? Is it a dynamic thing (video) or static images? 

Can I watch TV in between or once started it should be left to run its course?


----------



## Iceberg86300

Quick find! Here is the link. 

http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?p=28473378
I got some details wrong, but you'll get the idea. 

http://pictureperfecthtc.com/img/burn1.jpeg
http://pictureperfecthtc.com/img/burn2.jpeg
http://pictureperfecthtc.com/img/burn3.jpeg
http://pictureperfecthtc.com/img/burn4.jpeg

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## Iceberg86300

twitchyzero said:


> Hey, Thanks for the info!
> 
> New panel will be coming in a two days.
> 
> I am someone that will baby my screen, but I can only tell my roommate so much that she already thinks I'm anal. I don't think I can get her to follow so many directions just to protect my TV.
> 
> So I dont mind a proper break-in for 100 hours to a week...ff it means less IR/BI prone for the majority of the panel life. I plan to do this first then calibrate with a Spyder Pro and the calibration menu on my BBC Life's blu-ray disc.
> 
> Some noob questions:
> 
> Is it just a set of images/video found here? Is it a dynamic thing (video) or static images?
> 
> Can I watch TV in between or once started it should be left to run its course?


There is a forum or sub forum here at AVS which contains test disc material. Multiple forms/options.

If you want to download ~22GB shoot me a PM. 

I personally would just use a 100 IRE pattern (solid white pattern) on vivid or dynamic after setting brightness, contrast, and tint/color. Test disc required for all three (or any disc that has patterns for these settings). For tint/color/flesh tone, whatever you set calls it, you need a sempte color bar pattern. Put the set into blue only mode, then adjust so the blues match.

No need to do this in one constant week long deal. Just put the pattern up when not actually watching TV. If possible use a BD player this and tell the roommate no movies. This way you setup the BD input more aggressively, and tone down the cable input with conservative brightness/contrast values to minimize risk for logos and whatnot. Set it to zoom so you get full screen content and hopefully any logos off the screen.

Test the test pattern to make sure nothing goes to sleep or screensaver mode.

Also be weary on the spyder. Depending on cost you may be able to get a pro calibration for the same money.


----------



## Steve Kuester

James Freeman said:


> On a Panasonic ST60 I turn on the "Screen Wipe" for about 15 seconds to evenly excite the pixels BEFORE using the TV, or immediately after I turn on the screen.
> I have noticed that when I turn on the set after its being off overnight, it is the time when the pixels are the most prone to burn-in/ retention because they have been dormant.
> After I'm done watching (mainly 2.39:1 movies), I run the sweeper for about 5 minutes.
> I have made this routine a habit for maximum plasma life till OLED comes along.
> No burn-ins or retention whatsoever.
> 
> I have noticed that the worst you can do to a plasma screen in terms of retention or burn-in is flash it with strong white text after a dormant period.
> For example, turning on the menu when the set was just turned on.
> 
> Note I only use the plasma for my HTPC via HDMI so the screen is completely black (my background) when I plug in the HDMI or extend the desktop.



I was wondering about this the other day. Anyone else do anything special before they watch something they know will produce some IR?


For my situation, I watch most all of the Minnesota Wild games. I get some pretty annoying IR from the Fox Sports WILD logo on the top right of the screen. I DVR all the games and skip commercials, so the logo is on the screen without much interruption. Sometimes I'll go a week or more without watching anything else on that TV other than the Wild games, so I every now and then I'll set the sleep timer to go for an hour after the game just to play some other content. Still though, the IR I'm getting is annoying, as I can see it on light/white scenes when watching other content.


My tv is a Panasonic V10 that I have had for going on 5 years now. Don't know the settings off the top of my head as I haven't touched them for several years, but I don't have it that bright as I watch in a dim room (for hockey) and a dark room (for movies)


So long story shortened... Would running the scrolling bar for a minute BEFORE watching the game help with IR in any way?


----------



## twitchyzero

Is there a way to set F8500's screen saver specific to an input?
I've noticed I was running envageline's break-in slides all day yesteday just fine (via PowerDVD on my HTPC)
today I was watching blu-ray via the same software/input and noticed TV's screen saver keeps kicking in despite the video is playing. Same thing playing PC games.
I still want the TV's screen saver for all other inputs...any way to set this up?


Also, Iceberg I sent u a PM.


----------



## X-RaVer

Hi all,
Panasonic has replied saying they can solve my problem by replacing the ZT for a 65AX800 ...
I'm temped to ask for a 65AX900 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea.
They can't repair the ZT 
Any opinions on this please?


----------



## 80sGuy

X-RaVer said:


> Hi all,
> Panasonic has replied saying they can solve my problem by replacing the ZT for a 65AX800 ...
> I'm temped to ask for a 65AX900 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea.
> They can't repair the ZT
> Any opinions on this please?


I'd say go for it. Although plasmas are very good compared to LCD/LED but we're heading to 4K and beyond. I'm assuming you're also keeping the old ZT? This will give you time and perhaps come up with a solution/fix.


----------



## X-RaVer

80sGuy said:


> I'd say go for it. Although plasmas are very good compared to LCD/LED but we're heading to 4K and beyond. I'm assuming you're also keeping the old ZT? This will give you time and perhaps come up with a solution/fix.


Panasonic would replace my ZT with another model, i can't keep both units 
The thing is, should i ask for a AX900 or a refund? ... there are some mixed feelings about the AX900 around the web.


----------



## Cuda1169

Steve Kuester said:


> I was wondering about this the other day. Anyone else do anything special before they watch something they know will produce some IR?
> 
> 
> For my situation, I watch most all of the Minnesota Wild games. I get some pretty annoying IR from the Fox Sports WILD logo on the top right of the screen. I DVR all the games and skip commercials, so the logo is on the screen without much interruption. Sometimes I'll go a week or more without watching anything else on that TV other than the Wild games, so I every now and then I'll set the sleep timer to go for an hour after the game just to play some other content. Still though, the IR I'm getting is annoying, as I can see it on light/white scenes when watching other content.
> 
> 
> My tv is a Panasonic V10 that I have had for going on 5 years now. Don't know the settings off the top of my head as I haven't touched them for several years, but I don't have it that bright as I watch in a dim room (for hockey) and a dark room (for movies)
> 
> 
> So long story shortened... Would running the scrolling bar for a minute BEFORE watching the game help with IR in any way?


I'd recommend running a full screen show or movie for an hour after watching Fox Sports. Just to be sure.


----------



## 80sGuy

These IR can be brutal. Minimize anything with ticker bars and watch full screen for a few weeks. Set Brightness and Contrast below 50. This can take at least a month or two to even out.


----------



## Steve Kuester

Cuda1169 said:


> I'd recommend running a full screen show or movie for an hour after watching Fox Sports. Just to be sure.


Yes, that is exactly what I do. I was just curious if running something for a time before a static image on screen will help lessen the image retention I know I will get from that static image.


Almost more of a theoretical question on if IR is more severe immediately after the TV is turned on vs. after a few minutes where the pixels have "warmed up."


----------



## Tom Riddle

X-RaVer said:


> Hi all,
> Panasonic has replied saying they can solve my problem by replacing the ZT for a 65AX800 ...
> I'm temped to ask for a 65AX900 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea.
> They can't repair the ZT
> Any opinions on this please?


From what I've read, that is a really good set. Go ahead and ask for the 900; why not right? Really stinks that they can't repair though.


----------



## Tom Riddle

Steve Kuester said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I do. I was just curious if running something for a time before a static image on screen will help lessen the image retention I know I will get from that static image.
> 
> 
> Almost more of a theoretical question on if IR is more severe immediately after the TV is turned on vs. after a few minutes where the pixels have "warmed up."


Hmmm, interesting question. While this is an interesting theory, if there are any benefits of warming the pixels up before going to a static image, they would most likely be minimal. My key to image retention, don't pay attention to it. As long as you don't abuse your panel - i.e., watch shows with tickers all day without varying your content - you have little to worry about when it comes to image retention.


----------



## X-RaVer

Tom Riddle said:


> From what I've read, that is a really good set. Go ahead and ask for the 900; why not right? Really stinks that they can't repair though.


Panasonic did not accept the exchange. They will process a refund.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

So the new firmware on PS4 has an "Invert Colors" option.

I'm curious, if people have burn-in from their HUD's, wouldn't running this option time to time be helpful for it? I'm guessing it would be tough to _play_ with this option, but wouldn't that help alleviate HUD burn-in in some way if it's run?

It also can run when playing movies, so if you have IR from black bars perhaps you could run this on 2.39:1 films every so often.


----------



## 80sGuy

I thought they're giving you the 65AX800 in warranty exchange. What happened?


X-RaVer said:


> Panasonic did not accept the exchange. They will process a refund.


----------



## X-RaVer

0


80sGuy said:


> I thought they're giving you the 65AX800 in warranty exchange. What happened?


Yes, they offered a 65AX800 or a 55AX900 ... the first was not the 'Top of Line' model on LCD's like the ZT60 was on Plasmas, and would never accept it.
The last one is 5" smaller than my ZT , it's not a viable option either. The only model i would accept would be a 65AX900 , but Panasonic declined and said they would opt for another solution, refund... however, 30 days are gone since Saturday and i haven't got a word from them on how they're going to solve this.. if it is refund, they sould have already done it!
I'll wait for some news today, if i don't get a word from them, i'll follow a court action.


----------



## 80sGuy

Well then, get the refund and go for a 4K set. Seriously, plasmas are great but they are pretty much obsolete. Besides you're gonna get tired of baby-sitting them from heavy IR and/or burn-ins.


----------



## X-RaVer

80sGuy said:


> Well then, get the refund and go for a 4K set. Seriously, plasmas are great but they are pretty much obsolete. Besides you're gonna get tired of baby-sitting them from heavy IR and/or burn-ins.


That's really easy to say, but in order to buy some decent replacement for the ZT i still need to put 1.5~2K more at least.
It's not fair that they can't solve this by replacing the set themselves or just by repairing it!


----------



## goetter

*F8500 image sticking*

Hi all,

I believe I've burned an image into my PN60F8500, against my understanding of what was possible. I'd like to check whether there's anything left to try. I purchased the screen in December; there are approximately 500 hours on the panel.

Put simply, I began playing a game (in game mode, at full 20 cell brightness) two weeks ago. After five days or ~30 hours of screen time, I noticed retention of the game's HUD on a white screen. I adjusted the HUD to change its position, and continued to play.

Since then, I have: 

(1) twice put the panel in "pattern" mode overnight, which scrolls a white-black gradient.
(2) noticed no additional image retention at all (no matter how brief) of the adjusted game HUD, despite having played the game much more. No changes to brightness or other settings.

The retention of the original game HUD has not diminished.

Is there anything left to try? I believed this kind of burn-in risk to be a solved problem, especially on this relatively high-end panel.


----------



## Tom Riddle

goetter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I believe I've burned an image into my PN60F8500, against my understanding of what was possible. I'd like to check whether there's anything left to try. I purchased the screen in December; there are approximately 500 hours on the panel.
> 
> Put simply, I began playing a game (in game mode, at full 20 cell brightness) two weeks ago. After five days or ~30 hours of screen time, I noticed retention of the game's HUD on a white screen. I adjusted the HUD to change its position, and continued to play.
> 
> Since then, I have:
> 
> (1) twice put the panel in "pattern" mode overnight, which scrolls a white-black gradient.
> (2) noticed no additional image retention at all (no matter how brief) of the adjusted game HUD, despite having played the game much more. No changes to brightness or other settings.
> 
> The retention of the original game HUD has not diminished.
> 
> Is there anything left to try? I believed this kind of burn-in risk to be a solved problem, especially on this relatively high-end panel.


Stop playing the game for a while and vary your content. Keep running screen wipes, but don't expect to see it diminish fast. Could take a while. I've had image retention last up to a month before. Also, tone the cell light down for normal content. Blast it for the screen wipes.


----------



## X-RaVer

goetter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I believe I've burned an image into my PN60F8500, against my understanding of what was possible. I'd like to check whether there's anything left to try. I purchased the screen in December; there are approximately 500 hours on the panel.
> 
> Put simply, I began playing a game (in game mode, at full 20 cell brightness) two weeks ago. After five days or ~30 hours of screen time, I noticed retention of the game's HUD on a white screen. I adjusted the HUD to change its position, and continued to play.
> 
> Since then, I have:
> 
> (1) twice put the panel in "pattern" mode overnight, which scrolls a white-black gradient.
> (2) noticed no additional image retention at all (no matter how brief) of the adjusted game HUD, despite having played the game much more. No changes to brightness or other settings.
> 
> The retention of the original game HUD has not diminished.
> 
> Is there anything left to try? I believed this kind of burn-in risk to be a solved problem, especially on this relatively high-end panel.


Hi, you can try some solid colored slides or just use the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper , it should be used several times and for a long period each time. i would say 8hours each time, try mixing your content and obviously STOP playing the game that caused the IR.


----------



## muffinmcfluffin

goetter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I believe I've burned an image into my PN60F8500, against my understanding of what was possible. I'd like to check whether there's anything left to try. I purchased the screen in December; there are approximately 500 hours on the panel.
> 
> Put simply, I began playing a game (in game mode, at full 20 cell brightness) two weeks ago. After five days or ~30 hours of screen time, I noticed retention of the game's HUD on a white screen. I adjusted the HUD to change its position, and continued to play.
> 
> Since then, I have:
> 
> (1) twice put the panel in "pattern" mode overnight, which scrolls a white-black gradient.
> (2) noticed no additional image retention at all (no matter how brief) of the adjusted game HUD, despite having played the game much more. No changes to brightness or other settings.
> 
> The retention of the original game HUD has not diminished.
> 
> Is there anything left to try? I believed this kind of burn-in risk to be a solved problem, especially on this relatively high-end panel.


Is it a PS4 game? If so, you can try the Invert Colors option I was referencing earlier. Might not be easy to play with, but if you at least run that for a while (for instance, I could have that on while playing Remote Play on Vita), then that might be the ticket for you to see if it counters itself at all.


----------



## Cuda1169

goetter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I believe I've burned an image into my PN60F8500, against my understanding of what was possible. I'd like to check whether there's anything left to try. I purchased the screen in December; there are approximately 500 hours on the panel.
> 
> Put simply, I began playing a game (in game mode, at full 20 cell brightness) two weeks ago. After five days or ~30 hours of screen time, I noticed retention of the game's HUD on a white screen. I adjusted the HUD to change its position, and continued to play.
> 
> Since then, I have:
> 
> (1) twice put the panel in "pattern" mode overnight, which scrolls a white-black gradient.
> (2) noticed no additional image retention at all (no matter how brief) of the adjusted game HUD, despite having played the game much more. No changes to brightness or other settings.
> 
> The retention of the original game HUD has not diminished.
> 
> Is there anything left to try? I believed this kind of burn-in risk to be a solved problem, especially on this relatively high-end panel.



Its unlikely you have burn-in after only 500 hours. I recommend the Disney WoW pixel flipper and full screen viewing for several days. Once the IR fades watch as much varied content as possible.


Good luck and enjoy your panel.


----------



## QuiGonJosh

Always smart not to play 30 hours of the same game with a HUD without varying content.


----------



## 80sGuy

Can't believe after 4 years of owning my TC-P42G25, I'm running the slides again to wash out some stubborn heavy IR, or burn-in for a lack of better word. I watched A LOT of CNBC Financial News and have noticed an apparition of the ticker bar spreading out across the bottom. It is not as bad during normal viewing but only when breaks with light gray backgrounds. It has improved since, but in the back of my mind it is still there so therefore I'll let the slides do the honor. This was also used for broken-in the set for 200 hours when it was brand new.


----------



## 22L

I've read through of this thread and I hear a lot of great info on preventing burn in and a lot of complaints about burn in. 

Here is my situation. I'm selling a ZT60 for a friend. He must have watched a bunch of 4:3 because it has the lighter bars on the sides. I've been running the screen wipe and think it got better after the first few hours, but looks like the progress has stalled. It's pretty noticeable on light scenes, clouds, sky, western movies, etc. 

What else can I try? Like I've said, I've read a bunch of the thread and there is good info on preventing and a lot of complaints about it happening but not much on "Hey, get this DVD or download this and play it and your problem will get resolved". So I worry there is no fix. Is this true? Is it something that, with a little care, will resolve itself over the next few months of normal watching with no 4:3 content?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## 22L

I did read about Disney WOW and the pixel flipper. I will order that. Is there a difference between the 1 disk and 2 disk?It doesn't say what the difference is on amazon.


----------



## Tom Riddle

22L said:


> I did read about Disney WOW and the pixel flipper. I will order that. Is there a difference between the 1 disk and 2 disk?It doesn't say what the difference is on amazon.


Ratchet up the contrast as high as it will go and keep going. Could take a long time to rid.


----------



## Semp1

Just felt I should share my story of extremely stubborn IR and how I got rid of it on my 65VT60. I did about 400 hours of break in since so many people seem to want to know this and I use CNET settings after the break in but did not put the contrast higher than 68 (only option I changed). In reality break in does not prevent IR but I am sure most people on this forum know this. After that I didn't watch too much logo branded channels or display much static imagery until around 1000 hours. After that I allowed my girlfriend to watch the TV as she pleased when I wasn't home. I had done this with my previous 65VT30 and never had a problem at all when it came to IR. After the TV was approximately 9 months old I noticed the "E!" Channel logo when displaying a white screen. I immediately had her stop watching E! And white washed and watched full screen for many hours a week. Finally 9 months later and with no E! watching on the VT60 at all today is the first day that every bit of evidence of IR is finally completely gone. 

The reason I want you Guys to know this, is she had at least 1000 hours of E! channel watching logged onto my VT60. So it is possible to get rid of IR. You just need to never watch that channel again or at least until the IR is gone. Reality is if you have IR that means you most likely spent hundreds of hours watching a certain channel which means it's going to take just as many if not more most likely to get rid of it. Lastly any one using THX setting set the size, to size 2 so you can activate pixel orbiter. I have noticed a lot of image retention comes when using this setting constantly. Pixel orbiter by default is disabled with THX. And lastly don't go above 70 on the contrast. You will notice almost no difference in shadows or blacks above 70 any way. 

Hopefully this helps some of you understand how to get rid of stubborn IR. basically don't watch the channel again until the IR is gone and use a lot of white wash for hours every day. Clearly in my opinion I have proved that burn in is a thing of the past at the very least considering that E! logo was branded into my set. Stubborn IR on the other hand is here to stay. Understand she didn't watch the E! channel a little bit. The channel was on at all times for hours a day. So it took a lot to get stuck there and it took even more to get rid of it. So good luck guys any IR you have should eventually go away with patience.


----------



## perchancetodream

Semp1 said:


> Just felt I should share my story of extremely stubborn IR and how I got rid of it on my 65VT60. I did about 400 hours of break in since so many people seem to want to know this and I use CNET settings after the break in but did not put the contrast higher than 68 (only option I changed). In reality break in does not prevent IR but I am sure most people on this forum know this. After that I didn't watch too much logo branded channels or display much static imagery until around 1000 hours. After that I allowed my girlfriend to watch the TV as she pleased when I wasn't home. I had done this with my previous 65VT30 and never had a problem at all when it came to IR. After the TV was approximately 9 months old I noticed the "E!" Channel logo when displaying a white screen. I immediately had her stop watching E! And white washed and watched full screen for many hours a week. Finally 9 months later and with no E! watching on the VT60 at all today is the first day that every bit of evidence of IR is finally completely gone.
> 
> The reason I want you Guys to know this, is she had at least 1000 hours of E! channel watching logged onto my VT60. So it is possible to get rid of IR. You just need to never watch that channel again or at least until the IR is gone. Reality is if you have IR that means you most likely spent hundreds of hours watching a certain channel which means it's going to take just as many if not more most likely to get rid of it. Lastly any one using THX setting set the size, to size 2 so you can activate pixel orbiter. I have noticed a lot of image retention comes when using this setting constantly. Pixel orbiter by default is disabled with THX. And lastly don't go above 70 on the contrast. You will notice almost no difference in shadows or blacks above 70 any way.
> 
> Hopefully this helps some of you understand how to get rid of stubborn IR. basically don't watch the channel again until the IR is gone and use a lot of white wash for hours every day. Clearly in my opinion I have proved that burn in is a thing of the past at the very least considering that E! logo was branded into my set. Stubborn IR on the other hand is here to stay. Understand she didn't watch the E! channel a little bit. The channel was on at all times for hours a day. So it took a lot to get stuck there and it took even more to get rid of it. So good luck guys any IR you have should eventually go away with patience.


Hope your girlfriend doesn't "go away" because you've forbidden her to watch the E! Channel.
That and seeing you white washing the TV for many hours a week, she probably thinks you've gone crazy.


----------



## 80sGuy

It is a trade-off for excellent picture quality, but having to constantly baby the thing for preventing IR and Burn-ins are getting very tiresome. Looking to replace soon, perhaps OLED?


----------



## Michael Vincent Praino

80sGuy said:


> It is a trade-off for excellent picture quality, but having to constantly baby the thing for preventing IR and Burn-ins are getting very tiresome. Looking to replace soon, perhaps OLED?


Yeah, after an hour of gaming I need to do 2+ hours of screen wiping on my f8500 to rid it of all the IR. Very annoying...


----------



## Tom Riddle

Michael Vincent Praino said:


> Yeah, after an hour of gaming I need to do 2+ hours of screen wiping on my f8500 to rid it of all the IR. Very annoying...


Hmm... I have the F8500 and never do any screen wiping. There's no reason to do screen wiping for small amounts of IR - it's just a tradeoff for having of owning a plasma. Just by watching varied content, it will disappear. The only time you should really need to run the screen wipe is if you have something really stubborn that is noticeable from your normal viewing distance. If you can't see it while watching normal content from you normal viewing distance, then it's not a problem.


----------



## Tom Riddle

80sGuy said:


> It is a trade-off for excellent picture quality, but having to constantly baby the thing for preventing IR and Burn-ins are getting very tiresome. Looking to replace soon, perhaps OLED?


OLED also is prone to IR, even more so than plasma. Plasmas really aren't' that bad anymore when it comes to IR - it's only a problem if you really make it one. If you can't see it from your normal viewing distance, then don't worry about it, it goes away. I watch sports all day sometimes and never worry, it all goes away. I have two plasmas, the Samsung 64F8500 and the Panasonic 65VT30, and neither have any persistent problems. I can guarantee that IR happens all the time on them, but I wouldn't know, because I know that I treat them well enough to not worry.


----------



## Iceberg86300

Tom Riddle said:


> OLED also is prone to IR, even more so than plasma. Plasmas really aren't' that bad anymore when it comes to IR - it's only a problem if you really make it one. If you can't see it from your normal viewing distance, then don't worry about it, it goes away. I watch sports all day sometimes and never worry, it all goes away. I have two plasmas, the Samsung 64F8500 and the Panasonic 65VT30, and neither have any persistent problems. I can guarantee that IR happens all the time on them, but I wouldn't know, because I know that I treat them well enough to not worry.


This is exactly what I meant like 50 pages ago when I said if you go looking for IR with slides or whatever it will take longer for the IR to “go away."

Yes, you can get some really harsh IR depending on what you watch, but for the vast majority of people it's just not an issue, and and in these cases the IR truly is bad as one makes it out to be. If you seek it out by playing slides and/or standing in every position in the room instead of just watching your normal stuff from your normal position then it WILL bug you longer.

Just think about this thread. I'm sure it's pretty high on Google, yet most of the content is a few of us counseling drive by posters.


----------



## gossamer88

I never had IR issues until I got the VT60. My first two plasmas (2004 and 2007 models) never had IR. From what I've read, it is more on 3D panels.

I ran slides, the disney wow disc (which I bought specifically for the IR) and nothing really helped. I just gave up and a couple of months later it was gone.

I posted here my YouTube before and after videos.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^The color slides helped me as I ran them at full blast (vivid mode) for hours and sometimes overnight. It works but very slow.


----------



## Cuda1169

I'm in agreement with Tom Riddle and Iceberg86300. Just simply watching your panel and varying your content will removes IR.


----------



## Semp1

Let me correct myself btw. I said when watching thx to activate pixel orbiter put it to size 2. That is incorrect. Turn over scan on then pixel orbiter will work with thx. Over scan should be on any way when watching tv channels. They aren't made for full pixel displays. Usually almost all have noise or are cropped in some way shape or from on the sides.


----------



## iGREASE

Okay so I got my 5300 but I don't actually have a DVD drive on my PC and I don't have a DVD player. Is there just a raw video file I could use instead?


----------



## Soulburner

Semp1 said:


> Let me correct myself btw. I said when watching thx to activate pixel orbiter put it to size 2. That is incorrect. Turn over scan on then pixel orbiter will work with thx. Over scan should be on any way when watching tv channels. They aren't made for full pixel displays. Usually almost all have noise or are cropped in some way shape or from on the sides.


Very few HD channels have this issue. It's mostly an SD thing.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

iGREASE said:


> Okay so I got my 5300 but I don't actually have a DVD drive on my PC and I don't have a DVD player. Is there just a raw video file I could use instead?


*I just got a Samsung 5300 60" last week. *

I am watching TV about 12-15 hours a day: CNBC....ESPN.....some HBO....baseball and hockey...some On-Demand TV programs. The TV rarely remains on any 1 channel for more than 1/2 hour, so no static images for hours at a time. Screen is completely filled; not watching Turner Classic Movies or watching Blu-Rays with black bars on them.

Any benefit to running one of these video discs with images ? Or should I just keep doing what I am doing ?


----------



## sawfish

Soulburner said:


> Very few HD channels have this issue. It's mostly an SD thing.


For HD, it's at most a YMMV thing. My local HD NBC and CBS channels have black borders along the top, and NBC also has one on the right side. NBC also always has 20-30 white flickering pixels in the upper left. Many HD channels have black borders of varying sizes and locations, and sometimes they have garbage in them. One of my favorite web pages on this issue presents ESPN as an example, and the "good" no-overscan image has garbage along the top that is absent from the "bad" overscan image, and it doesn't show any significant missing information:

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/...ing-sneaky-tv-overscan-windows-7-media-center

FAIL.

For broadcast TV (cable, OTA, whatver), I always use overscan so I never see these problems, which I first noticed almost a decade ago, and which continue to this day. You're not going to miss anything important, because they assume overscan is in effect. I seriously doubt anyone is able to consistently tell any difference in sharpness.

The important thing is to make sure only one of your TV and source perform overscan. I use Windows Media Center for broadcast TV and let it perform overscan, while my Panasonic ST60 TV is configured NOT to perform overscan. I play ripped content with Kodi with no overscan, and the same for Blurays for my physical player.

That said, I sure wouldn't enable overscan on the TV so Pixel Orbiter would work, as I consider it a worthless feature.


----------



## Soulburner

Weird, I only see the artifacts at the edges on some SD channels. DirecTV.


----------



## Iceberg86300

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *I just got a Samsung 5300 60" last week. *
> 
> I am watching TV about 12-15 hours a day: CNBC....ESPN.....some HBO....baseball and hockey...some On-Demand TV programs. The TV rarely remains on any 1 channel for more than 1/2 hour, so no static images for hours at a time. Screen is completely filled; not watching Turner Classic Movies or watching Blu-Rays with black bars on them.
> 
> Any benefit to running one of these video discs with images ? Or should I just keep doing what I am doing ?


You can keep doing what you're doing, or if you want to get out of the "danger zone" more quickly then you display a near white or white (70-100 IRE) gray scale slide. These can be found on any test disc, and you can usually loop the chapter if the pattern wants to change.

I prefer a physical commercial disc, but if you have the capability you can use the free test disc or parts of it here on AVS.

Definitely a good investment regardless if you use one now, as the high IRE windows are one method to get rid of IR if you run into it down the road.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Iceberg86300 said:


> high IRE windows are one method to get rid of IR if you run into it down the road.


That's good to know as I have never used discs or white screens or had any built-in IR/BI protection before I got the 5300 on my 2 other HDTVs.

2 or 3 times so far I have fallen asleep while watching an on-demand program and the program would end and the OD interface would show up. So for some time that be fixed on the screen because even though I had the TV set to go off, it was usually about 45-60 minutes after the program ended.

So far, however, I saw nothing each time I turned the TV back on in the morning. 

Always good to use the TV timer to go off as it will save you SOME time without the TV being on and sometimes fixed images being locked-on, too.


----------



## mushroomkid

So I don't know much about plasma's but I may be able to get hold of a used 55VT65B (which is the VT60 in the USA) from a family member. From what he tells me he's had about 400-500 hours use and I'm sure he didn't really "break it in" since he's not so techie. 

Have I missed the breaking in period then? Will the set be more prone IR/screen burn? I watch a lot of sports i.e. football so the scorecards are usually static, will do gaming etc. Never had a plasma, went from a CRT to an early 720p LCD which I'm still using.


----------



## Cuda1169

mushroomkid said:


> So I don't know much about plasma's but I may be able to get hold of a used 55VT65B (which is the VT60 in the USA) from a family member. From what he tells me he's had about 400-500 hours use and I'm sure he didn't really "break it in" since he's not so techie.
> 
> Have I missed the breaking in period then? Will the set be more prone IR/screen burn? I watch a lot of sports i.e. football so the scorecards are usually static, will do gaming etc. Never had a plasma, went from a CRT to an early 720p LCD which I'm still using.


No need to worry about "break in" as you already have 400-500 hours on the panel. I would recommend you watch as much varied content as you can. I have a ST50 and watch a lot NFL on Sundays in the fall and winter, but I watch a lot of other content during the week. So static logos and scoreboards have not been a problem for my panel.


----------



## breezy2012

&$&@&&$(@;@:[email protected]

My nephews were over yesterday and I let them play games on my F8500. We were all going out to eat and of course they stalled and stalled before finally running up at the last second. Things were so hectic I didn't think to go down and check that everything was ok.

FF to today - I've been swamped; just got home and made it downstairs for the first time since they were down there and of course - they had turned the sound off but left the console on with a static screen showing. It's been on for over a day.

I immediately turned on the screen wipe app and you can clearly see the EA logo in the top left corner, along with some other images sprinkled around the screen. I'm going to let the app run for a day and cross my fingers.

I have only myself to blame. I've been SO careful about IR since I got the TV only to let my guard down just for a second and have this happen.


----------



## breezy2012

Update -

Unbelievably the IR appears to be gong away fairly quickly.

Hour 1 - most of the IR was still visible but had softened considerably.

Hour 2 - most of the IR could no longer be discerned unless you really looked for it. The exception was the big EA logo. It was still pretty easy to see.

Hour 3 - the EA logo softened into a white blob. The individual E and A are no longer distinguishable.

Now - the blob has pretty much disappeared. If you know exactly where to look you can still kind of make out the outline when the screen wipe turns from grey to white but if you didn't know it was there you'd never be able to see it.

Looks like I dodged a huge bullet. How can this be? The 4:3 bars took at least a day to disappear and I hadn't watched 4:3 content anywhere close to 24 hours.


----------



## Michael Vincent Praino

breezy2012 said:


> Update -
> 
> Unbelievably the IR appears to be gong away fairly quickly.
> 
> Hour 1 - most of the IR was still visible but had softened considerably.
> 
> Hour 2 - most of the IR could no longer be discerned unless you really looked for it. The exception was the big EA logo. It was still pretty easy to see.
> 
> Hour 3 - the EA logo softened into a white blob. The individual E and A are no longer distinguishable.
> 
> Now - the blob has pretty much disappeared. If you know exactly where to look you can still kind of make out the outline when the screen wipe turns from grey to white but if you didn't know it was there you'd never be able to see it.
> 
> Looks like I dodged a huge bullet. How can this be? The 4:3 bars took at least a day to disappear and I hadn't watched 4:3 content anywhere close to 24 hours.


my f8500 is terrible with image retention and even an hours worth of gaming leaves behind traces for a few hours of screen wipe.


----------



## evil_mike

X-RaVer said:


> Hi all,
> Panasonic has replied saying they can solve my problem by replacing the ZT for a 65AX800 ...
> I'm temped to ask for a 65AX900 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea.
> They can't repair the ZT
> Any opinions on this please?


Panasonic is covering a burn-in issue under warranty? I thought burn-in was one of the areas they - or ANY manufacturer - NEVER covers? I've been dealing with burn-in on my VT60 for over a year; my kids watch Cartoon Network so now I have a big CN logo on the lower right side of my screen because my contrast was set to 100 (no idea how). I thought I was screwed?


----------



## ScottFern

evil_mike said:


> Panasonic is covering a burn-in issue under warranty? I thought burn-in was one of the areas they - or ANY manufacturer - NEVER covers? I've been dealing with burn-in on my VT60 for over a year; my kids watch Cartoon Network so now I have a big CN logo on the lower right side of my screen because my contrast was set to 100 (no idea how). I thought I was screwed?


I have both my VT60s set at 100 for contrast, one was calibrated and the other was set that way by the previous owner. I do notice significant image retention with bright static graphics and especially if I am playing my PS4. How many of you VT60 owners run their contrast at 100? Is that not recommended? Is that the main reason why I am seeing this image retention?


----------



## tomak

I was expecting something like the burn-ins and phosphors degradation we experinced with CRT's in the 90's but my budget LG 60" plasma has been powered on 24/7 for almost two years with contrast cranked high from the get go with no concern for its health/lifespan. It got some ghosting due to static HUDs from PC:s and cranked contrast from the get go but nothing you really notice when not watching static images. Turned on pixel orbiter for the first time today . On default it apprently dims the brightness when static content is detected for x time but we mostly display semi static content so that was probably never working.


----------



## Tom Riddle

tomak said:


> I was expecting something like the burn-ins and phosphors degradation we experinced with CRT's in the 90's but my budget LG 60" plasma has been powered on 24/7 for almost two years with contrast cranked high from the get go with no concern for its health/lifespan. It got some ghosting due to static HUDs from PC:s and cranked contrast from the get go but nothing you really notice when not watching static images. Turned on pixel orbiter for the first time today . On default it apprently dims the brightness when static content is detected for x time but we mostly display semi static content so that was probably never working.


Not sure if there is a question in here, but I can tell you that I don't care for the Pixel Orbiter. I don't believe that it truly helps, and I never turn it on.


----------



## gus738

.I don't know why most users have problems with IR. if anyone notices IR stop playing video games all together

instead use those hrs watching movies and TV shows.
full content no black bars do this for several thousand of hours 


get a USB some kind of playback device and put repeat on certain movies

use your imagination.the day has 24 hours,1 weeks time is equal to 169 hours 

go to game mode and reduce the contrast by 50% then after several thousands of hours you can start playing video games


----------



## olyteddy

gus738 said:


> ...
> 
> use your imagination.the day has 24 hours,1 weeks time is equal to 169 hours
> 
> ....


169? That is _quite_ imaginative.


----------



## gus738

olyteddy said:


> 169? That is _quite_ imaginative.


168 is a weeks time,TV is never turned off

a console with USB stick with MP4


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> I watched A LOT of CNBC Financial News and have noticed an apparition of the ticker bar spreading out across the bottom. It is not as bad during normal viewing but only when breaks with light gray backgrounds.


*Did you ever get rid of the CNBC bars and logo ? * 

I just noticed I have the same problem on my Samsung 5300. I have CNBC on during the day from about 9 AM - 5 PM. I just noticed that unlike in the past, the scrolling ticker and logo are still there during commercials (it wasn't always that way) but I do take breaks watching other channels and/or using the DVR. 

So I was shocked when I saw the IR/BI when I was up-close to the TV during a hockey game. I saw the IR/BI against the white of the ice rink. I can't see the IR/BI when non-light pictures are on the TV.

I've run the Scrolling Pattern for 2-3 days now for about 10-12 hours each day (in 3-4 hour blocks). Am also NOT watching CNBC on that TV. *Should I keep doing the Scrolling Pattern function -- if so, how much longer do I do it ? Run it how much longer and how often per-day ? Or should I just avoid CNBC and watch other channels, it'll disappear with regular HDTV viewing ? *

What's weird is that my other plasma, a 2007 Philips Ambilight, had CNBC on mostly for the same times for 5+ years. I never noticed any IR/BI though it's possible it was there and I never saw it.

*Here's My Full Story:*

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...-gem-i1pro-calibration-results-inside-65.html


----------



## 80sGuy

Yes I did, and it took a long while...at least two months! I lowered the Brightness & Contrast back down to 48 (out of 100) like I've always had it before. I think the reason for the heavy IR was because I had it set higher (around 54) for some test viewings but forgot to revert it back. The key is not to watch CNBC as much, or if you do, try and switch to something else while on commercial break. Also, you do not have to use the scroll or wipe, just lower the display settings and balance your viewing time with other channels/programs. I usually go on Netflix and Youtube and in the evenings it helps.



PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *Did you ever get rid of the CNBC bars and logo ? *
> 
> I just noticed I have the same problem on my Samsung 5300. I have CNBC on during the day from about 9 AM - 5 PM. I just noticed that unlike in the past, the scrolling ticker and logo are still there during commercials (it wasn't always that way) but I do take breaks watching other channels and/or using the DVR.
> 
> So I was shocked when I saw the IR/BI when I was up-close to the TV during a hockey game. I saw the IR/BI against the white of the ice rink. I can't see the IR/BI when non-light pictures are on the TV.
> 
> I've run the Scrolling Pattern for 2-3 days now for about 10-12 hours each day (in 3-4 hour blocks). Am also NOT watching CNBC on that TV. *Should I keep doing the Scrolling Pattern function -- if so, how much longer do I do it ? Run it how much longer and how often per-day ? Or should I just avoid CNBC and watch other channels, it'll disappear with regular HDTV viewing ? *
> 
> What's weird is that my other plasma, a 2007 Philips Ambilight, had CNBC on mostly for the same times for 5+ years. I never noticed any IR/BI though it's possible it was there and I never noticed it.
> 
> *Here's My Full Story:*
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...-gem-i1pro-calibration-results-inside-65.html


----------



## 80sGuy

^^Correction: you do not have to use the scroll or wipe....


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Yes I did, and it took a long while...at least two months! I lowered the Brightness & Contrast back down to 48 (out of 100) like I've always had it before. I think the reason for the heavy IR was because I had it set higher (around 54) for some test viewings but forgot to revert it back.


Haven't watched CNBC for 2 days now....listening from the other room. 

*Cell Light @ 20......Contrast @ 95.....Brightness @ 48*...I can either lower those or use the Eco Sensor which has a Min Cell Light of 2....assuming it lowers brightness, it may not do it or as much as at night when the room is dark. Guess I can always manually lower the numbers.



> The key is not to watch CNBC as much, or if you do, try and switch to something else while on commercial break. Also, you do not have to use the scroll or wipe, just lower the display settings and balance your viewing time with other channels/programs. I usually go on Netflix and Youtube and in the evenings it helps.


*That's what shocked me.....even though apparently the commercials during CNBC still show the logo/scroll (not all but mostly), I switch channels alot...and also use the DVR.* There may be times when I have CNBC on for an hour straight but it's the exception. Even then, there are probably 2-4 minutes of commercials without the Logo/Scroll.

But mostly...I flip around....watch the DVR....I think ON AVERAGE since I got my Samsung I will venture that of every 1-hour of "CNBC viewing" I probably have it on that channel only 20-30 minutes, tops. Maybe a bit more...but maybe also less. And at night and on weekends, nothing from CNBC.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> ^^Correction: you do not have to use the scroll or wipe....


*Thanks 80'sGuy...**I'll probably do it a few more times including when I am sleeping *(no problem using it for 5-7 hours straight ?)...mostly, I am now using the TV with 16:9, Pixel Protect, and NO CNBC at all, even for 5 seconds to scan what the market is doing.


----------



## 80sGuy

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *......Contrast @ 95....*
> 
> 
> *That's what shocked me.....even though apparently the commercials during CNBC still show the logo/scroll (not all but mostly), I switch channels alot...and also use the DVR...
> 
> *


Whoa, that's high! You might want to tune it down below 50. And I agree, regarding CBNC, MSNBC, and Bloomberg. I guess they don't want you to miss a beat. But to be honest, no one pays attention to the scrolling tickers, at least I don't. I just tune in for the news/gossips.


----------



## 80sGuy

^^By the way, very VERY volatile week!


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Whoa, that's high! You might want to tune it down below 50. And I agree, regarding CBNC, MSNBC, and Bloomberg. I guess they don't want you to miss a beat. But to be honest, no one pays attention to the scrolling tickers, at least I don't. I just tune in for the news/gossips.


Me too...when I go back I will use the cable box's Wide or SuperZoom functions to make the images bigger and not match any residual IR/BI...my back is to the TV anyway, so I don't need to see it that much.

I tried turning it down to 50'ish, the TV looked dark. I used Orion's settings so I may have to adjust other things to get it to look semi-normal. 

I'll worry about it after I get the CNBC IR/BI reduced or gone. I never thought CNBC was high-risk but given my viewing pattern, it turned out to be even with the occasional commercials....channel switches...and DVR viewing. Playing a video game, I knew the risks. This was something I never suspected especially given my previous use on older plasmas.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Whoa, that's high! You might want to tune it down below 50.


*Guess what ? *

I had CNN on during the day with the sound off on the 5300....*and later today I noticed the "LIVE" icon from Obama's press conference slightly above the CNBC logo on the far right side of the bottom of the TV.* 

*So it appears even a relatively quick exposure to something that is bright and white can lead to immediate IR, at least with my current settings.* 

Again, I noticed it while watching a hockey game re-run during the afternoon. It's VERY faint, not something I would notice from normal distance watching anything but a white ice hockey rink.


----------



## 80sGuy

Correct. Any time when the brightness/contrast is set that high it is almost certain that you'll end up with stubborn heavy ir. I do watch CNN but okay after commercial breaks. Set it below 50 and you should be ok.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Correct. Any time when the brightness/contrast is set that high it is almost certain that you'll end up with stubborn heavy ir. I do watch CNN but okay after commercial breaks. Set it below 50 and you should be ok.


But then the TV is too dark...I may have to play around with the Cell Light and Brightness along with Contrast to get it right. 

*What are your settings now ?*


----------



## 80sGuy

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> But then the TV is too dark...I may have to play around with the Cell Light and Brightness along with Contrast to get it right.
> 
> *What are your settings now ?*


Not sure how Samsung panels work but here are the settings on my Panasonic Plasma. I initially had both Contrast/Setting at 48 but lowered it to 45. It is perfect! 

THX Mode
Contrast: 45
Brightness: 45
Color: 54
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 13
Color Temp: Warm 2
Color Mgmt: On
C.A.T.S.: Off\Video NR: On
Block NR: On
Mosquito NR: On
Black Level: Light
3:2 pulldown: Auto


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Not sure how Samsung panels work but here are the settings on my Panasonic Plasma. I initially had both Contrast/Setting at 48 but lowered it to 45. It is perfect!
> 
> THX Mode
> Contrast: 45
> Brightness: 45
> Color: 54
> Tint: 0
> Sharpness: 13
> Color Temp: Warm 2
> Color Mgmt: On
> C.A.T.S.: Off\Video NR: On
> Block NR: On
> Mosquito NR: On
> Black Level: Light
> 3:2 pulldown: Auto


That's out of 100, right ? I thought you had a Samsung, thanks 80's !


----------



## 80sGuy

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> That's out of 100, right ? I thought you had a Samsung, thanks 80's !


Yes, 45/100. My setup is listed on my Sig below.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

*Good News !! My IR is IR and not apparently BI. The image has begun to fade. *

Last week I could almost make out the time in the CNBC logo - and now it's unreadable. The scroll bars from left-to-right are also fading. The brightest part of the IR is the far-right CNBC logo so that will probably be the last to go.

*Thanks to all for the help ! *


----------



## 80sGuy

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *Good News !! My IR is IR and not apparently BI. The image has begun to fade. *
> 
> Last week I could almost make out the time in the CNBC logo - and now it's unreadable. The scroll bars from left-to-right are also fading. The brightest part of the IR is the far-right CNBC logo so that will probably be the last to go.
> 
> *Thanks to all for the help ! *


Great to hear. Just keep watching a lot of regular tv in full screen and you'll be fine in no time. These IR's are most stubborn, especially with tickers and logos. As mentioned earlier, financial news channels are the worst.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Great to hear. Just keep watching a lot of regular tv in full screen and you'll be fine in no time. These IR's are most stubborn, especially with tickers and logos. As mentioned earlier, financial news channels are the worst.


I have to remember to stretch the screen while watching some of the few non-HD channels since they won't extend down and a black bar won't erase the IR. Thanks !

When I watch CNBC for a few minutes, I have both the cable STB and Samsung picture size set to Zoom or the biggest picture setting. Or I am using the Scroll Feature so there's no chance of imprinting the same stuff that's already there.

*Thanks for your helpful comments, 80'sGuy *!


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> Great to hear. Just keep watching a lot of regular tv in full screen and you'll be fine in no time. These IR's are most stubborn, especially with tickers and logos. As mentioned earlier, financial news channels are the worst.


Staying off CNBC....FoxBiz and Bloomberg TV on for a few minutes at a time tops...also avoiding CNN because their bright-white far-right corner is another IR risk (especially if something is "LIVE").

Doing the Scroll Feature for about two 3-hour blocks per day...*you think that's enough or should I do more ? * I could do more when it's on and even do it overnight while I sleep. Just figured at this point that the fading of the IR just has mostly to do with not watching CNBC and watching other HDTV/SDTV programs, not sure if the Scroll Feature is helping or doing nothing (not that I mind it, most of the time I am listening to programs while I am on the PC so I don't need to see them).


----------



## 80sGuy

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> Staying off CNBC....FoxBiz and Bloomberg TV on for a few minutes at a time tops...also avoiding CNN because their bright-white far-right corner is another IR risk (especially if something is "LIVE").
> 
> Doing the Scroll Feature for about two 3-hour blocks per day...*you think that's enough or should I do more ? * I could do more when it's on and even do it overnight while I sleep. Just figured at this point that the fading of the IR just has mostly to do with not watching CNBC and watching other HDTV/SDTV programs, not sure if the Scroll Feature is helping or doing nothing (not that I mind it, most of the time I am listening to programs while I am on the PC so I don't need to see them).


From what I understand, you shouldn't use the scroll/wipe too much as it shortens the life of the phosphors. Use it only if it's necessary and sparingly. The best way to tackle this (as I've done so in the past) is to disconnect the coax antenna line from the back of your TV so that it can filled the whole screen with 'static snow' and let it sit overnight.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

80sGuy said:


> From what I understand, you shouldn't use the scroll/wipe too much as it shortens the life of the phosphors. Use it only if it's necessary and sparingly. The best way to tackle this (as I've done so in the past) is to disconnect the coax antenna line from the back of your TV so that it can filled the whole screen with 'static snow' and let it sit overnight.


*
Can you confirm that about the Scroll Feature ? * I stopped using it daily for my two 3-hour blocks or thereabouts.....just watching HDTV.

How did the static snow thing work ?


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

*Also, does SDTV or blown-up (using ZOOM) HDTV stuff cancel the effect of watching "sharp" HDTV viewing ? *  

I am using the Zoom feature a lot so that if I stop on CNBC I don't re-create the image outlines I am trying to erase. I am not using the Scroll Feature while on CNBC as per above. So using the Zoom feature on both the 5300 and the Cable STB insure that the TV doesn't recreate the outlines.


----------



## Tom Riddle

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *
> Can you confirm that about the Scroll Feature ? * I stopped using it daily for my two 3-hour blocks or thereabouts.....just watching HDTV.
> 
> How did the static snow thing work ?


Yes, this will age your screen, as it is lighting the area in full blast during the wipe. I don't ever use screen wipe, or anything else on my screen for that matter. If I can't see it from my viewing distance, then I don't care. Image retention is impossible to stop on plasmas, it's just something you have to live with, and just be sure not to abuse your set.


----------



## Tom Riddle

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *Also, does SDTV or blown-up (using ZOOM) HDTV stuff cancel the effect of watching "sharp" HDTV viewing ? *
> 
> I am using the Zoom feature a lot so that if I stop on CNBC I don't re-create the image outlines I am trying to erase. I am not using the Scroll Feature while on CNBC as per above. So using the Zoom feature on both the 5300 and the Cable STB insure that the TV doesn't recreate the outlines.


If you mean by your below explanation, then yes. By eliminating the problem from the equation, eventually after repeated viewing, the retention will fade to nothing.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Tom Riddle said:


> Yes, this will age your screen, as it is lighting the area in full blast during the wipe.


Probably can still do it but will see if I get some fade with regular HDTV viewing. If the TV only has 30,000 hours of phosphor life instead of 60,000 I am really not going to care given the $600 cost of the TV. TV life was more important 10-12 years ago when the sets cost 5-7x as much.

It's strange, Tom, because my other 720p Philips was on CNBC for years during the day and I never noticed any IR/BI. Of course, it's the light blue & white image which on the Samsung was only visible when I was up-close and watching a white ice rink. But now I see even the CNN bright-white logo leaving a very faint IR (it goes away within minutes) if it's on for 10+ minutes or longer.



> I don't ever use screen wipe, or anything else on my screen for that matter. If I can't see it from my viewing distance, then I don't care. Image retention is impossible to stop on plasmas, it's just something you have to live with, and just be sure not to abuse your set.


Gotcha....always careful, I really am just surprised because I didn't consider the images to be "fixed." CNBC goes to commercials without the scroll and logos. Plus, I watch other channels during the day and also use the DVR and On-Demand.

Could have been a rare time when I left CNBC on for 1-2 hours straight. But I'm hoping it continues to fade with normal HDTV and SDTV viewing as I stopped using the Scroll Feature.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Tom Riddle said:


> Yes, this will age your screen, as it is lighting the area in full blast during the wipe. I don't ever use screen wipe, or anything else on my screen for that matter. If I can't see it from my viewing distance, then I don't care. Image retention is impossible to stop on plasmas, it's just something you have to live with, and just be sure not to abuse your set.


*Tom, thanks for the feedback....*now I'm wondering if the IR/BI IS fading or not. At first I thought it was, now I'm not sure.

I am not going to worry about it, it's a $600 stop-gap to an OLED or another expensive TV when my finances allow. And I can't see it unless watching a hockey game against the white ice ink.

*I am going to go back to using the Scroll Feature 2-times a day for 1-hour at a time....morning or afternoon (maybe while watching some CNBC) and again at night when I watch some CNBC on the DVR.....down from the 4-6 hours I was doing it before. I don't want to run the thing 6-10 hours a day like I was earlier but I also don't want to go Cold Turkey.*

I figure between a few hours of reduced Scrolling and regular HDTV/SDTV watching I should know by mid-January if the image is IR or BI.


----------



## Tom Riddle

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *Tom, thanks for the feedback....*now I'm wondering if the IR/BI IS fading or not. At first I thought it was, now I'm not sure.
> 
> I am not going to worry about it, it's a $600 stop-gap to an OLED or another expensive TV when my finances allow. And I can't see it unless watching a hockey game against the white ice ink.
> 
> *I am going to go back to using the Scroll Feature 2-times a day for 1-hour at a time....morning or afternoon (maybe while watching some CNBC) and again at night when I watch some CNBC on the DVR.....down from the 4-6 hours I was doing it before. I don't want to run the thing 6-10 hours a day like I was earlier but I also don't want to go Cold Turkey.*
> 
> I figure between a few hours of reduced Scrolling and regular HDTV/SDTV watching I should know by mid-January if the image is IR or BI.


What model do you have?


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Tom Riddle said:


> What model do you have?


*Samsung 5300B....just purchased in May.*

I now see if I leave it on most channels with bright logos or scrolls and then put the Scrolling Feature on, I can see the IR (tougher to see or not visible if I switch channels and try and observe from normal viewing distance, as opposed to 2 feet or less).

I'm now using the Zoom feature on the cable STB and the TV to avoid the bright logos...also using the Eco Solution set to HIGH to reduce my already high Brightness/Contrast settings since most of the time the TV is to my back during the day.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

*CNN TEST: * If you have your settings on your TV set to pretty high Brightness/Contrast/Cell Light (as I do), see if watching CNN for a few minutes leaves a faint IR from the CNN logo on the far right side.

Report back......


----------



## SFabozzi

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *CNN TEST: * If you have your settings on your TV set to pretty high Brightness/Contrast/Cell Light (as I do), see if watching CNN for a few minutes leaves a faint IR from the CNN logo on the far right side.
> 
> Report back......


It does, but the FoxNews logo is worst.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

SFabozzi said:


> It does, but the FoxNews logo is worst.


I don't see how....the CNN logo is larger and bright-white...the FoxNews logo is fainter and mostly blue.


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## 80sGuy

CBNC Logo is the worst - with bright white lettering and white peacock feathers. Nothing is worst than white on black. A nightmare to wash!


----------



## Iceberg86300

Throw up a high ire window.

ISF said 100% when I was certified in 06, but today if it's just mild IR I think 70-90% would be fine. Whatever you feel comfortable using.

In 06 we were also told to "season" a plasma with a 100% ire window for at least 100 hours before watching any real content.

This was a multifaceted approach used for several reasons, but creating both resistance to and ease of getting rid of IR was a big part of it. Only thing bigger was for calibration. I'd never touch a plasma that hadn't been seasoned in this way for at least 200 hours. Of course that was only for when the customer and I had a relationship before purchase.

Been outta the game from around ~09, so take this info for what is as current common procedure from ISF is at least slightly differently, at most completely different.


You can also:
Zoom it! At least that's what I do when watching non entertainment stuff. 

And I have a Sammy LCD !!!!! I probably shouldn't even bother zooming it anymore as the flashlighting that's developed in each corner provides a decent background to keep IR at bay.

Sorry for you guys with plasmas and real issues.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Iceberg86300 said:


> Throw up a high ire window.


What is "IRE" ?? What do the % things refer to ? 

When I watch CNBC I use the Eco Sensor set to HIGH which I hear reduces cell brightness to Zero....I also set the Pic Size to WIDE.

If today's plasmas have brighter capabilities and higher contrast it makes sense that the high settings on my 2006 plasmas that I employ today would be leading to more IR on the newer Samsung as opposed to on the older Philips.


----------



## Iceberg86300

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> What is "IRE" ?? What do the % things refer to ?
> 
> When I watch CNBC I use the Eco Sensor set to HIGH which I hear reduces cell brightness to Zero....I also set the Pic Size to WIDE.
> 
> If today's plasmas have brighter capabilities and higher contrast it makes sense that the high settings on my 2006 plasmas would be leading to more IR today as opposed to on the older sets.


Ire is a rather antiqued term today, but still used, and for your purpose it would be easier to find test patterns by searching for ire test patterns, as there are many other conventions and arguments for and against the term in the calibration world.

It stands for international radio engineers, and was born in the era of CRTs. Technically I shouldn't have put the % sign there. In actuality ire corresponds to voltage levels that produce different levels of gray scale, with 100 "ire units" corresponding to reference white. Decreasing the number of ire units decreases voltage, sending the gray scale towards black. The move to digital is what has caused the confusion/arguments. 

That response may not be totally correct. When calibrating the software does most of the dirty work & with the few years I was calibrating I don't think I ever gained a very firm understanding of it.


So the short answer is ire levels correspond to different levels of white light output. When calibrating the patterns are used to adjust the color levels so the display is actually outputting a white "image" instead of one that may have too much green, blue, etc. They're also used to adjust the color temperature to whatever standard the display is being calibrating to. 

Confused yet?  Sorry for all the bouncing around here!!

Now, the reason for putting up a brighter gray scale (higher ire) on a new set is two fold: the aforementioned seasoning, and to shorten the "break in" period. When new the phosphors are very bright and tend to age at different rates very quickly, this continues throughout the life of the plasma, but not at this higher rate. So, obviously, if you are going to have your set calibrated you want to be out of this accelerated aging period or the calibration will be off in short order.

This phenomenon is what makes the initial hours on a plasma the "danger zone." Today the consensus is you really don't need to watch a white window for 200 hours. Start enjoying your set as soon as it's hooked up, but during this initial period use a lower contrast setting, watch varied content, use zoom to get logos off the screen, stay away from black bars, etc. 


I know that's a lot more info than you were looking for, but it's good info to have.

If you'd like to try using gray scale patterns AVS has a free test disk you can download, just head over to that section of the forum and there is a detailed thread on its use. You can also purchase a test disc, one I highly recommend is Spears & Munsil 2nd edition. It has a full suite of very useful features including basic front panel setup, sound, clips, images, etc, and it explains things pretty well as you go.

Hope this has made some sense and not made things worse! I'm on Tapatalk and was just writing as things came to mind, no editing LOL.


----------



## Technikos

I have a 51" SAMSUNG F8500 plasma NIB, that I purchased last year. I just recently unpacked. I would like to break in the TV. Can someone recommend what slides, how many hours, settings, and any other important info to breaking in ?

Thank you


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Technikos said:


> I have a 51" SAMSUNG F8500 plasma NIB, that I purchased last year. I just recently unpacked. I would like to break in the TV. Can someone recommend what slides, how many hours, settings, and any other important info to breaking in ? Thank you


Tech, there's a Samsung 8500 Thread in this section, probably stuff there. You can also get some tidbits from this thread going back a few pages.

I think the key is this: just don't watch TONS of stuff with fixed images that don't move. Gaming.....movies that have black bars....hours of ESPN/CNBC/FoxNews watching with their logos running continuously.

If the 8500 has the same Energy Savings feature that the 5300 has, you can set it to MED or HIGH especially if you are mostly listening to the TV or watching a station that has potential IR/BI artifacts.

But really....I would just excercise caution on Gaming/movies that don't fill the screen/bright logo channels.

*You can also use WIDE 1 to protect the TV if you are mostly listening. For stuff you are watching, use 16:9 (instead of Screen Fit) with the Pixel Protection feature on (I assume the 8500 has this).*

Again, the key is: avoid fixed images for long periods of time (take breaks ever 20-45 minutes if possible). If you are watching lots of channels every few hours or watching movies that fill the TV screen automatically or with the Picture Size Function enabled, don't worry.

100-200 hours of caution (a few weeks probably) and you are past the most dangerous time but see my posts on my 5300.


----------



## Colargo

Now I'm regretting not breaking in my LG PB6600. Maybe it could've saved my TV from getting such bad burn in now. No matter what I do, there seems to be permanent image retention that you can easily see on a white screen. 

Guess LG doesn't make them like they use to because my old LG plasma is still running great and has no image retention whatsoever. I could leave it on CNN for example for the whole day and it wouldn't have any longterm effects. Just slight image retention at best that would fade away very quickly. Not so with the 6600 which sucks. ;_;


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## PhilipsPhanatic

Colargo said:


> Now I'm regretting not breaking in my LG PB6600. Maybe it could've saved my TV from getting such bad burn in now. No matter what I do, there seems to be permanent image retention that you can easily see on a white screen.


Describe the problem.



> Guess LG doesn't make them like they use to because my old LG plasma is still running great and has no image retention whatsoever. I could leave it on CNN for example for the whole day and it wouldn't have any longterm effects. Just slight image retention at best that would fade away very quickly. Not so with the 6600 which sucks. ;_;


No, I think it's true of most of the newer plasmas......I think the enhanced brightness/contrast is making the sets more prone to IR/BI than before.

My older 720p Philips plasmas from 2007 were on CNBC 8-10 hours a day and I never noticed any IR/BI. But I got it within a few months of getting my Samsung 5300.


----------



## Colargo

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> Describe the problem.


The main thing right now is that I have the CNN logo and their info bar that stretches across the screen faintly but permanently burned into my screen. Anytime I'm watching hockey I can easily see the outlines of those images. 




> No, I think it's true of most of the newer plasmas......I think the enhanced brightness/contrast is making the sets more prone to IR/BI than before.
> 
> My older 720p Philips plasmas from 2007 were on CNBC 8-10 hours a day and I never noticed any IR/BI. But I got it within a few months of getting my Samsung 5300.


Not sure about the enhanced brightness because I've turned brightness down to very low levels. I never liked looking at overly bright screens for very long periods of time and its the main reason why I bought this plasma and returned an LED TV I bought before this. 

With the LED, it was insane how much that screen hurt my eyes. Even turning it down to the absolute lowest I could without destroying picture quality it was still too bright for me and I had to return it and go back to plasma. 

But yeah its just surprising to me that this new plasma could have IR/BI so easily when my old one was so good. :/


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Colargo said:


> The main thing right now is that I have the CNN logo and their info bar that stretches across the screen faintly but permanently burned into my screen. Anytime I'm watching hockey I can easily see the outlines of those images.


*Unreal...I have the same problem with the CNBC ticker *!!   

And like you, *I only noticed it while watching a NY Rangers game !!*

Look....I'm not happy I got it on mine, you aren't either. But the thing is at least on mine I can ONLY see it on an NHL game or some other program where the bottom of the screen is a very light and constant color. News programs, movies, other sports, 99% of all other channels 99.9% of the time -- I can't see anything even from 2 feet away.

Like my Samsung 5300, your LG is not a super-expensive TV. It's not a multi-thousand dollar 4K or OLED. So don't sweat it. 



> Not sure about the enhanced brightness because I've turned brightness down to very low levels. I never liked looking at overly bright screens for very long periods of time and its the main reason why I bought this plasma and returned an LED TV I bought before this. With the LED, it was insane how much that screen hurt my eyes. Even turning it down to the absolute lowest I could without destroying picture quality it was still too bright for me and I had to return it and go back to plasma. But yeah its just surprising to me that this new plasma could have IR/BI so easily when my old one was so good. :/


*First, how close are you to the TV and the size of it ? * I am watching a 60" from about 9-10' away, so brightness isn't really an issue. You can always turn down Brightness or Contrast or Cell Light or whatever LG has as variable.

*Second, it's apparently BRIGHT WHITE or RED/BLUE banner bars that are the problem: CNN..CNBC...FOX....etc. * Maybe the ESPN ticker's outline, took. So if you are just mostly listening while doing PC stuff or in another room, use an Eco Setting or something to really turn down the brightness below what you would use if you were actively watching. I have normal Cell Brightness of 20 on my Samsung, but the LOW setting takes it to 14...MEDIUM to 8 and HIGH to 0. During the day when I have CNBC and I am mostly listening I have it on Medium or High. There's even a setting to turn the screen off and just have audio but I haven't used it.

*Third...in conjunction with the Brightness/Eco reductions, you can always use WIDE or ZOOM *to get overscan and prevent the same image from "overlapping" and leading to IR/BI. Again, if you aren't actively watching this isn't a problem.

Those are what I do now since I have CNBC on during most of the day.


----------



## Colargo

PhilipsPhanatic said:


> *Unreal...I have the same problem with the CNBC ticker *!!
> 
> And like you, *I only noticed it while watching a NY Rangers game !!*
> 
> Look....I'm not happy I got it on mine, you aren't either. But the thing is at least on mine I can ONLY see it on an NHL game or some other program where the bottom of the screen is a very light and constant color. News programs, movies, other sports, 99% of all other channels 99.9% of the time -- I can't see anything even from 2 feet away.
> 
> Like my Samsung 5300, your LG is not a super-expensive TV. It's not a multi-thousand dollar 4K or OLED. So don't sweat it.


Yeah I guess it doesn't hurt as much since I bought this TV relatively cheap, but it still sucks to see it as again my old LG plasma has been so good for so long. Maybe its because my old plasma was a mid-end model and this new one is low end its why my old one is performing better. 

Oh well, like I said I've kinda given up on worrying about it too much more now as it is what it is. I wish I could fix it, but it doesn't look like that's going to be possible so I'll just enjoy it for what it is and move up when the time comes. 




> *First, how close are you to the TV and the size of it ? * I am watching a 60" from about 9-10' away, so brightness isn't really an issue. You can always turn down Brightness or Contrast or Cell Light or whatever LG has as variable.


I'm at about the same distance and as I said I really don't like overly bright screens as they kill my eyes so I always turn everything down to the bare minimum while keeping a picture quality that I'm happy with.



> *Second, it's apparently BRIGHT WHITE or RED/BLUE banner bars that are the problem: CNN..CNBC...FOX....etc. * Maybe the ESPN ticker's outline, took. So if you are just mostly listening while doing PC stuff or in another room, use an Eco Setting or something to really turn down the brightness below what you would use if you were actively watching. I have normal Cell Brightness of 20 on my Samsung, but the LOW setting takes it to 14...MEDIUM to 8 and HIGH to 0. During the day when I have CNBC and I am mostly listening I have it on Medium or High. There's even a setting to turn the screen off and just have audio but I haven't used it.


I can try and do that, but the only bad thing is that I kinda dislike having to constantly fiddle with picture settings depending on what I'm watching. I'm often switching channels so having to change settings every single time would be quite bothersome.



> *Third...in conjunction with the Brightness/Eco reductions, you can always use WIDE or ZOOM t*o get overscan and prevent the same image from "overlapping" and leading to IR/BI. Again, if you aren't actively watching this isn't a problem.
> 
> Those are what I do now since I have CNBC on during most of the day.


That's something I could try too just to not have the logo/info bar across the screen all the time. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

Colargo said:


> Yeah I guess it doesn't hurt as much since I bought this TV relatively cheap, but it still sucks to see it as again my old LG plasma has been so good for so long. Maybe its because my old plasma was a mid-end model and this new one is low end its why my old one is performing better.


Again..._*you can only see the IR/BI while watching hockey or seeing a white screen at the bottom of the TV, right ? *_ I wouldn't have even noticed mine except I was fiddling with the Blu-Ray player right below the TV and my face was 12" from the TV while watching the Rangers game.  



> I can try and do that, but the only bad thing is that I kinda dislike having to constantly fiddle with picture settings depending on what I'm watching. I'm often switching channels so having to change settings every single time would be quite bothersome.


I know...I have a button on the Samsung remote to switch between Picture Sizes but nothing that activates or can be programmed (as far as I know) to go into the Menu Settings and turn on the Energy Saving feature (OFF-LOW-MED-HI). Maybe I can do it on my Harmony 880 if I can fix it or buy a replacement.



> That's something I could try too just to not have the logo/info bar across the screen all the time. Thanks for the tips.


No problem ! Good Luck and don't worry...I was mini-freaking out when I first noticed the IR/BI now I could care less.

*UNLESS you can see it while watching regular TV programs from a normal distance, don't worry. * Since I am usually not watching a hockety game from 1-2 feet away, I am not gonna sweat it.


----------



## yokisuci

Just picked up a plasma for free, but it has some serious burn-in. Can't upload a pic, but pretty much the middle area is where the letterbox should be has a red tint, and the black borders are...well...black. Guess the previous owner wached letterbox only.

Is it possible to wear this even somehow? How come the middle area of the screen has this yellow tint? :S
Should I show white borders, or maybe red or magneta borders to try to even out the wear?


----------



## PhilipsPhanatic

yokisuci said:


> Just picked up a plasma for free, but it has some serious burn-in. Can't upload a pic, but pretty much the middle area is where the letterbox should be has a red tint, and the black borders are...well...black. Guess the previous owner wached letterbox only. Is it possible to wear this even somehow? How come the middle area of the screen has this yellow tint? :SShould I show white borders, or maybe red or magneta borders to try to even out the wear?


First, what model TV is it and how many hours of use ?

Second, if it has a Screen Wipe function use it.

Third, there are programs that you can download from the threads here that will act as a screenwipe if the TV has a USB port.

Fourth, for not just watch regular HDTV that completely fills the TV screen....if it doesn't use the TV or cable box functions to expand the picture using WIDE or ZOOM.


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## James Freeman

It is important that you use the "Screen Wipe" function first thing for minute when you turn on the TV.
The phosphor has to be "agitated" equally.

The worst thing you can do to a plasma screen is a sharp/thin white font/lines from a long period off state.
Again, I always use the screen wipe function for a minute before use, BUT my ST60 is like a secondary monitor for my HTPC so it's black (windows background too) till I drag the player window to it and start a movie.

Furthermore, please turn down your contrast to around 100nit or less (if you can measure with a device) and use the plasma in a dark room.
Contrast on 100 and a CNN logo from a Turned Off state (overnight) will do irreversible damage.


----------



## Superman23

Okay I know everybody probably already posted about some Image Retention on their Panasonic ZT60's so please forgive me if I'm about to ask about the same thing from past discussions. I got the new Zelda game for my Nintendo WiiU yesterday and really enjoyed playing it for 2 hours. Well when I shut it down and switched back to watching some TV I noticed the X,Y,A,B button menu button logo stayed in the upper right corner of the screen. I can only see it on lighter or whiter screen pictures. This is the only game that I noticed it on. IR doesn't show up on Mario Kart 8, Street Fighter V or any of my other games and those games have menu logos that stay on the screen while playing too. Other than running the Screen Swipe is there something else that will help it fade away? I left the house this morning with the screen swipe running and my wife says that the X,Y, A, B buttons that were faintly burned in are almost gone. Any advise other than not playing video games on the ZT would be much appreciated. I really don't want to have a separate TV just for video games. I'd like just one TV to do it all. One member suggested the Disney Wow Pixel Flipper so I think I'll look into that too. I played a ton of video games on my VT30 and never had a problem with IR.

Thanks
Ronnie


----------



## 80sGuy

Superman23 said:


> Okay I know everybody probably already posted about some Image Retention on their Panasonic ZT60's so please forgive me if I'm about to ask about the same thing from past discussions. I got the new Zelda game for my Nintendo WiiU yesterday and really enjoyed playing it for 2 hours. Well when I shut it down and switched back to watching some TV I noticed the X,Y,A,B button menu button logo stayed in the upper right corner of the screen. I can only see it on lighter or whiter screen pictures. This is the only game that I noticed it on. IR doesn't show up on Mario Kart 8, Street Fighter V or any of my other games and those games have menu logos that stay on the screen while playing too. Other than running the Screen Swipe is there something else that will help it fade away? I left the house this morning with the screen swipe running and my wife says that the X,Y, A, B buttons that were faintly burned in are almost gone. Any advise other than not playing video games on the ZT would be much appreciated. I really don't want to have a separate TV just for video games. I'd like just one TV to do it all. One member suggested the Disney Wow Pixel Flipper so I think I'll look into that too. I played a ton of video games on my VT30 and never had a problem with IR.
> 
> Thanks
> Ronnie


^^Some are stubborn than others. It might take weeks or even months for it to fade (or burn out) evenly. At the meantime do not play the game, just watch regular TV with Contrast and Brightness set between 60-70%. When you see improvements, set and leave them below 50%. If you decide to play the game again in the future make sure you bring the settings down to prevent heavy IR.


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## Superman23

80sGuy said:


> ^^Some are stubborn than others. It might take weeks or even months for it to fade (or burn out) evenly. At the meantime do not play the game, just watch regular TV with Contrast and Brightness set between 60-70%. When you see improvements, set and leave them below 50%. If you decide to play the game again in the future make sure you bring the settings down to prevent heavy IR.


Thanks 80sGuy! Also I think I'll try to check the game options to see if I can turn off the on screen menu button stuff that stays on the screen while playing. Sometimes you can shut these things off in the games so theyre not constantly up on the screen. Or I can try to play on Zoom. But if neither works then I guess I'll have to play it on another TV until I try your recommendations and get the logo to disappear. My contrast goes all the way up to 100 and I currently have it set to 55 so it's not too high. But when I watch tv tonight I'll shoot it up to 65 or 70 like you're recommending and will leave it there until the logo'g disappear.

Thank you!


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## B. Shoe

Has anyone attempted to watch a full MLB game on a Fox Sports Network channel with the new "FOX/Team Logo" bug in the upper right corner of the screen? I timed six minutes from the moment I turned my TV to FSMidwest to the commercial break during tonight's Cardinals game, and bug IR was noticeable during commercials. I'm fearful that a full nine-inning game, regardless of commercial breaks, will leave IR/burn-in that will be difficult to remedy beyond just putting my TV on HBO for two hours before I go to sleep. Has anyone else experienced this with the new Fox Sports MLB bug? Thanks in advance for any input you can provide!


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## Raven Crimson

Gamers: Seriously guys, I play games for a stupid amount of hours on my VT60 and my older ST30, and yes IR can look like burn in that may take weeks to MONTHS to fade away, but they WILL fade. Unless the IR bothers you, don't worry about video games. IR may be easier to see in whites and grays, and certain solid colors, but in most content, it won't be an issue, and WILL FADE AWAY.

I'm someone who played the same game with the same bad static images for thousands of hours. THOUSANDS of hours with colored lifebars, ammo counts, etc. Thousands of hours worth of persistent IR that looked like burn in, went away in weeks/months, to the point that nothing was left.


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## Superman23

B. Shoe said:


> Has anyone attempted to watch a full MLB game on a Fox Sports Network channel with the new "FOX/Team Logo" bug in the upper right corner of the screen? I timed six minutes from the moment I turned my TV to FSMidwest to the commercial break during tonight's Cardinals game, and bug IR was noticeable during commercials. I'm fearful that a full nine-inning game, regardless of commercial breaks, will leave IR/burn-in that will be difficult to remedy beyond just putting my TV on HBO for two hours before I go to sleep. Has anyone else experienced this with the new Fox Sports MLB bug? Thanks in advance for any input you can provide!




Funny thing is I did the same thing last night while watching the Detroit Tigers play the Miami Marlins. Yes, I too had the FOX Detroit Logo stained in the upper right hand corner. This does it too when I watch the Red Wings on FOX. It seems as if that upper right hand corner is more susceptible to IR than any other area on the screen. The good thing is though that it wont stay. After the full 11 innings were over I switched to a safer channel and let it run while I was getting ready for bed. This usually does the trick and within an hour no more FOX Sports logo. If it's really bad I run the Disney Pixel Flipper and that really clears up everything.


Ronnie


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## B. Shoe

Superman23 said:


> After the full 11 innings were over I switched to a safer channel and let it run while I was getting ready for bed. This usually does the trick and within an hour no more FOX Sports logo. If it's really bad I run the Disney Pixel Flipper and that really clears up everything.


Thanks for the heads up! It just seemed more prominent in just six minutes than even the TNT NBA scoreboard does after a full game, or the HBO Boxing bug does after a full 3.5-hr PPV broadcast. I'll give it a go tonight and go straight to a full screen movie afterwards.


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## Superman23

B. Shoe said:


> Thanks for the heads up! It just seemed more prominent in just six minutes than even the TNT NBA scoreboard does after a full game, or the HBO Boxing bug does after a full 3.5-hr PPV broadcast. I'll give it a go tonight and go straight to a full screen movie afterwards.



Yeah you're totally right............I notice the FOX Sports logo starts to cause IR almost instantly. Any of my other sports channels and pretty much nothing. FOX sports seems to be the culprit for the IR and it sucks because I've got the Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons that broadcast on that channel. ESPN is fine and also NBCSN is fine. But thankfully running a movie right after wipes the screen clean. 


Ronnie


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## PhilipsPhanatic

Superman23 said:


> Yeah you're totally right............I notice the FOX Sports logo starts to cause IR almost instantly. Any of my other sports channels and pretty much nothing. FOX sports seems to be the culprit for the IR and it sucks because I've got the Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons that broadcast on that channel. ESPN is fine and also NBCSN is fine. But thankfully running a movie right after wipes the screen clean.
> Ronnie


WPIX-11 in NY is now ROTATING the logo (which I actually don't think is very bright or an IR/BI threat) between the lower left and right during Mets games. *I've never see that elsewhere.
*
They should actually switch IMO every half-inning and use the upper right too (the upper left is for the score and pitch/out stuff).


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## domcaz

Hi everyone.

I recently bought a 2nd hand TX-P50GT60B and the previous owners seem to have been watching QVC too much!

So my question is how do I tell the difference between image retention and burn in? If I'm going to return the set I can't hang on to it and wait several weeks to see if it lessens.

I've attached a photo that shows the Q bottom left and the bar above it to almost the top of the screen.

Thanks!


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## Methodical_1

domcaz said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I recently bought a 2nd hand TX-P50GT60B and the previous owners seem to have been watching QVC too much!
> 
> So my question is how do I tell the difference between image retention and burn in? If I'm going to return the set I can't hang on to it and wait several weeks to see if it lessens.
> 
> I've attached a photo that shows the Q bottom left and the bar above it to almost the top of the screen.
> 
> Thanks!


I see what looks like an arm in the image (blue/white). Is that on the screen?


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## domcaz

Methodical_1 said:


> I see what looks like an arm in the image (blue/white). Is that on the screen?



Yes! That's the arm of an olympic golfer! The burn in or IR is the vertical dark box on the left of the arm going most of the way up the screen.


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## Superman23

domcaz said:


> Yes! That's the arm of an olympic golfer! The burn in or IR is the vertical dark box on the left of the arm going most of the way up the screen.


Did you try running the Disney Wow Pixel Flipper? A lot of us Plasma Owners run the disk when we get some pesky logo's that stick and what not. The screen swipe works sometimes too but not as good as the pixel flipper.


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## Methodical_1

domcaz said:


> Yes! That's the arm of an olympic golfer! The burn in or IR is the vertical dark box on the left of the arm going most of the way up the screen.


Me personally, I wouldn't deal with it, but I'm getting older and just don't have time to deal with crap like I did when I was bit younger.


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## heartbreakj

*ZT60 - Image Retention Frustration - What's Your Experience?*

Hello all,

I have a ZT60, 3 years old, around 5,000 hours on it. I baby'd it for the first 500 hours and for 3 years had no issues whatsoever. Best set I've ever owned, hands down. But there's an IR issue I'm dealing with and it's a nightmare.

Recently, I've noticed an ever present MSNBC logo and lower-third bar faintly on screen. It's most apparent on white backgrounds, solid RGB slide backgrounds and most intensely on the 4th gen Apple TV white-transparent background. I don't see it on black and it almost never interferes with on-screen content but it's there and there's no denying it. I've always been a cognizant plasma owner and taken steps to ensure that I don't keep static content and tickers on screen for extended periods and moreover, I never go full contrast or brightness.

This is extremely frustrating. To remedy this, I've spent a whole week, sometimes 12-15 hours a day running snowy-fuzz, RGB slides, and sometimes saturated animated movies at fullscreen to alleviate the issue. All this and nothing thus far.

My question is, who else has been through this? What did you do? And what happened over the course of a few weeks or few months? What was your end result?

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate any insights and thoughts. Cheers!


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## 80sGuy

heartbreakj said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have a ZT60, 3 years old, around 5,000 hours on it. I baby'd it for the first 500 hours and for 3 years had no issues whatsoever. Best set I've ever owned, hands down. But there's an IR issue I'm dealing with and it's a nightmare.
> 
> Recently, I've noticed an ever present MSNBC logo and lower-third bar faintly on screen. It's most apparent on white backgrounds, solid RGB slide backgrounds and most intensely on the 4th gen Apple TV white-transparent background. I don't see it on black and it almost never interferes with on-screen content but it's there and there's no denying it. I've always been a cognizant plasma owner and taken steps to ensure that I don't keep static content and tickers on screen for extended periods and moreover, I never go full contrast or brightness.
> 
> This is extremely frustrating. To remedy this, I've spent a whole week, sometimes 12-15 hours a day running snowy-fuzz, RGB slides, and sometimes saturated animated movies at fullscreen to alleviate the issue. All this and nothing thus far.
> 
> My question is, who else has been through this? What did you do? And what happened over the course of a few weeks or few months? What was your end result?
> 
> Thanks, everyone! I appreciate any insights and thoughts. Cheers!


Lower your Brightness and Contrast below 50, preferably 48. Stay away from MSNBC, CNBC and watch regular TV for at last three months. It will go away. Very stubborn. My experience with CNBC.


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## heartbreakj

80sGuy said:


> Lower your Brightness and Contrast below 50, preferably 48. Stay away from MSNBC, CNBC and watch regular TV for at last three months. It will go away. Very stubborn. My experience with CNBC.


Thanks, 80sGuy!

Nice to hear someone who overcame this! It's been so incredibly frustrating!

I kept my contrast around 65, but will lower based on your recommendation and will happily stay away from the dreaded NBC ticker/logos of plasma-hell.

Cheers and thanks, man!


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## Daddyough

LG 60PN5300 - Data point for my burn in experience, it's a positive story - bought in 2015 , original owner. 

I have a DVD recorder that let me record two hours of static without timing out, and then it let me play it back in slow motion for a few days when I first bought it. Burn-in wasn't a big deal until I let one chyron settle in. 

So I didn't notice a problem, but kept it in mind. Then I noticed various ones creeping in, the sports channel for instance. But with viewing it would dissolve. An eye opener was when I was watching Star wars and froze the jump to hyperspace and then went to dinner. But even that washed away. So far so good, right?

So that chyron logo I mentioned started to be noticeable if not intrusive. I tried tuning to a broadcast snow-station, and then started to battle the 15 minute time out. So I dug out my faithful static snow disc. It's been playing off and on for getting on two weeks, from maybe two hours every night after I go to sleep to eight or more when it fits in my schedule.

On some screens, like commercials with broad color panels, I find white ones show nothing, but if there is a dark stripe nearby it will reveal even on white. But my test pattern / panel is to freeze a certain DVR'd commercial with a dark panel next to the logo place, which is in gold. The logo shows every time, but it's fading. I expect it will be gone in a week or so with the same treatment. 

Jump to the finish: The snow disk is doing its thing. The logo panel is disappearing. 

When I'm satisfied with it, and it's really close right now, I plan to try to keep part of my daily routine turning the TV to a broadcast static snow station at the end of the night and let it time out. 

Considering the number of years between "treatments" and how well it snapped back from the Star Wars and sports channel tests I think that will be the sweet spot between easy and effective. 

Disposing of a perfectly good device goes against my environmental conscience and I'll bet I'm not alone. But boy those new sets sure look good. And cheap!


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## 80sGuy

Daddyough said:


> LG 60PN5300 - Data point for my burn in experience, it's a positive story - bought in 2015 , original owner.
> 
> I have a DVD recorder that let me record two hours of static without timing out, and then it let me play it back in slow motion for a few days when I first bought it. Burn-in wasn't a big deal until I let one chyron settle in.
> 
> So I didn't notice a problem, but kept it in mind. Then I noticed various ones creeping in, the sports channel for instance. But with viewing it would dissolve. An eye opener was when I was watching Star wars and froze the jump to hyperspace and then went to dinner. But even that washed away. So far so good, right?
> 
> So that chyron logo I mentioned started to be noticeable if not intrusive. I tried tuning to a broadcast snow-station, and then started to battle the 15 minute time out. So I dug out my faithful static snow disc. It's been playing off and on for getting on two weeks, from maybe two hours every night after I go to sleep to eight or more when it fits in my schedule.
> 
> On some screens, like commercials with broad color panels, I find white ones show nothing, but if there is a dark stripe nearby it will reveal even on white. But my test pattern / panel is to freeze a certain DVR'd commercial with a dark panel next to the logo place, which is in gold. The logo shows every time, but it's fading. I expect it will be gone in a week or so with the same treatment.
> 
> Jump to the finish: The snow disk is doing its thing. The logo panel is disappearing.
> 
> When I'm satisfied with it, and it's really close right now, I plan to try to keep part of my daily routine turning the TV to a broadcast static snow station at the end of the night and let it time out.
> 
> Considering the number of years between "treatments" and how well it snapped back from the Star Wars and sports channel tests I think that will be the sweet spot between easy and effective.
> 
> Disposing of a perfectly good device goes against my environmental conscience and I'll bet I'm not alone. But boy those new sets sure look good. And cheap!


What is your Brightness and Contrast level set at?


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## Soulburner

The best one to evenly use the screen to clear image retention is the one on the Disney calibration disc.

Also, don't be tempted to buy a new LCD...the picture is still inferior to our plasmas.


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## Daddyough

80sGuy said:


> What is your Brightness and Contrast level set at?


I checked my settings. Earlier I'd started a spreadsheet so I decided to finish it. The settings shown are only the factory stock reset values. Below I'll explain why. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E6pDC6o0LIQPlOAs2RIJtE8Byt99Co8gmHSnCyS73CM/edit#gid=0 
You should be able to view and copy the document to make your own. Let me know if you can't. And BTW, if you succeed in modifying the original can you let me know too? I don't always trust sharing, whether it's me or the service at fault it doesn't matter.

Your tag says "Panasonic" and "Samsung," this control set was built from an LG menu system. Are they the same? There seem to be overlaps looking at the linked settings. 

On my TV I'd swear over time I'd changed values in some of the stock control sets ("Vivid", "Standard", etc.) so I copied all my values to text and then reset each of the control sets.

All of my stock settings stayed the same after I reset them. The "Expert" pair reverted so now I think I must have reset them previously and didn't remember. Note: There's a slight difference between Expert 1&2, under the Color Mgt. System #1 uses Red and #2 uses Green. Go figure.

I'd recently changed Expert 1 and 2 to be either ridiculously dark, low contrast or bright, high contrast. That change was made just after I posted here originally.
The #1 dark was for use while I watched a show with a red dominated Chryon. Usually I just want to listen anyway. Heck, depending on where the TV remote is I might "test" the cable company's screen saver instead of changing the picture since the sound stays on, and viewing any visual is just two pushes of the exit button away. 
The #2 brilliant setting was for scouring the screen with snow. Just think of adjusting Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness and maybe another few settings for the intended purposes. 

I must say, scouring with #2 has sped up the ghost fading process. Viewing the most critical images it's gone from all but a couple of the stock settings.

The red Chryon used by the Emmy award winning sports commentary show PTI is very aggressive. (The show just won a third Emmy and it's their running punch line for now so: #humor ) 
When I watch that show, the 15 minutes their side bar is up is enough time to ghost enough to see in regular viewing if it's brought to your attention. While regular viewing is enough to make it fade, a quick channel change to digital snow for the length of time it takes the TV to time-out/turn off, 15 minutes, works too. 

Now that I've put together that spread sheet I'll probably start to experiment. The TV is in a room that faces directly east, and the TV's back it to a 108" x 60" window. I've got white blinds but no curtains. As you might imagine the room's lighting has three phases: Brilliant dawn to Noon, kind of dark until sunset, and nighttime. It will be nice to be more analytical.

One problem with experimenting was the controls weren't consistent. The sub-menus always threw me off, the difference. Now that I can plainly see the sets of controls it's time to have some fun dialing in. I'm even thinking of trying a set just for black and white movies. Those cinematographers really could do great work with the limited tool of grayscale.


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## Acrof

Hello, I just got a Tc-P42G25 FullHD Plasma from Panasonic, second hand, of course.
I've used a wide screen 32" CRT for almost two decades, as I have tons of SD sources (retro consoles), but the lack of high definition makes it nearly impossible to use with newer stuff like PS4, Xbox One, etc, as smaller font text is really hard to read on it.
I thought about buying an OLED, but besides the stupidly high price tag, they aren't avaible in smaller sizes, and the TV rack (that can't be easily removed at all) I have won't fit anything bigger than 42", so I went with a plasma instead.
FullHD 42" plasmas are INCREDIBLY rare where I live, so when this Panasonic showed up, I bought it without a second thought. hahah
It seems there's two IR logos on both top corners (possibly burn-in), I can faintly read "NEWS", so I guess someone watched cable news channels for way too long on it, there's no other Imperfection on the screen that I could spot.
It's not terribly bad, but you can definitely spot it in a bright/ white scene. So I wanted to ask what's the best method to get rid of these stuck news logos?

Another thing that caught my attention (and being a first time plasma owner doesn't help), I've always heard and read online that Plasmas have amazing contrast, and reeeeally deep blacks (specially cuz this has a Infinity Black panel), but while using this set in a pitch black room, I've noticed that the blacks in this TV seem to be a very dark gray instead, you can definitely see the difference from a black screen being displayed to when the TV is turned off. 
I tried different settings on it (THX, standard, vivid, etc) but it doesn't seem to change this at all.
I know this is a 10 year old set now, but I don't know if this is normal, or if it's some kind of defect, aging, etc. Is this normal, should I worry about it?

Any help/tips are greatly appreciated! And sorry for any mistakes, as English is not my native language.


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## Tacoma M.

Acrof said:


> Hello, I just got a Tc-P42G25 FullHD Plasma from Panasonic, second hand, of course.
> I've used a wide screen 32" CRT for almost two decades, as I have tons of SD sources (retro consoles), but the lack of high definition makes it nearly impossible to use with newer stuff like PS4, Xbox One, etc, as smaller font text is really hard to read on it.
> I thought about buying an OLED, but besides the stupidly high price tag, they aren't avaible in smaller sizes, and the TV rack (that can't be easily removed at all) I have won't fit anything bigger than 42", so I went with a plasma instead.
> FullHD 42" plasmas are INCREDIBLY rare where I live, so when this Panasonic showed up, I bought it without a second thought. hahah
> It seems there's two IR logos on both top corners (possibly burn-in), I can faintly read "NEWS", so I guess someone watched cable news channels for way too long on it, there's no other Imperfection on the screen that I could spot.
> It's not terribly bad, but you can definitely spot it in a bright/ white scene. So I wanted to ask what's the best method to get rid of these stuck news logos?
> 
> Another thing that caught my attention (and being a first time plasma owner doesn't help), I've always heard and read online that Plasmas have amazing contrast, and reeeeally deep blacks (specially cuz this has a Infinity Black panel), but while using this set in a pitch black room, I've noticed that the blacks in this TV seem to be a very dark gray instead, you can definitely see the difference from a black screen being displayed to when the TV is turned off.
> I tried different settings on it (THX, standard, vivid, etc) but it doesn't seem to change this at all.
> I know this is a 10 year old set now, but I don't know if this is normal, or if it's some kind of defect, aging, etc. Is this normal, should I worry about it?
> 
> Any help/tips are greatly appreciated! And sorry for any mistakes, as English is not my native language.


Older plasmas don't have good blacks. Maybe good compared to LCD but they are all grey not black. Pioneer being the only exception. The G25 has black rise which means as the panel ages the black (which were never really black) get lighter and greyer.


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## Savelich

Del


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## BigNackus

How do late gen plasmas hold up when used as a PC monitor? I have been using a older Panasonic 600u. It has not been babied, probably 10k hours as a regular TV then about 40k on it as a PC monitor. It shows no clearly visible burn in. All the full color slates look pretty uniform across the screen, nothing my eyes picks up with any normal use. It sometimes gets left on for for hours or even rarely overnight on the same image.

It still works but I'm tempted to try and get a 1080p tv, probably late gen panasonic/Samsung/pioneer. Would these hold up as well? I wouldn't want to go go through the hassel just to have one burn in. I have read up on others experiences but everyone I've read stated how careful they were with the TV, which is not exactly how I would use it.


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