# Momitsu I know, wrong forum NOT.



## stefuel

As any of the projector (giant screen) forums most benifit from this little beauty, I'm curious how you current Momitsu owners feel it stacks up to the more traditional signal path setups HTPC, DVD/scaler. It's obviously a simple solution from an installation standpoint. I think it is of particular interest to the CRT forum due in part to it's support of DVI-I. There have been a few post listing problems with earlier Momitsu's that have been resolved with upgraded firmware, loaders, cap mods and power supply wire twisting. They now seem to be quite reliable. Now comes the fun part. I asked Mike Parker about the possibility of hacking out the DVI-I connector and installing the MP-1 with RGBHV out via 5 BNC's along with whatever dark secrets he has in the back of his head. Alas he has too much on the pallet at this time to take on another project so I'm going to order a brand new V880 and MP-1 and hack it up myself. When it's done, it is my intension to box it up and send it to Mike for testing and suggestions for further improvment. Hopefully with the bulk of the work done, He'll have time to at least scope it out and see where else it can be improved. If time permits, I'll order the V880 and MP-1 on Thursday or Friday. Now, if I can only get ahold of Mike.


Chip


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## WanMan

I know Darin has one, but I cannot remember if he tried it on Guy's XG or Steve's G70.


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## Don Rombach

Tricked out v880. Bet that would create a nice little side business.


I have tried a LD1 line doubler, HPTC, and V880 with my 1272.


The v880 is much better than the line doubler.


I bought the v880 to use when the wife needed "her'' computer (dual use), and have been so impressed with it that I have not bothered to run the cables to the pc. I found the v880 pq just as good as the pc. Of course with a better pj, an HTPC will probably outperform the v880.


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## Mark_A_W

The unit I tried out had a really bad ghosting problem on red (not my cables, tried 3 different ones, all of which work with my PC). It got much worse at 1280x720 at 75hz than the stock 480p.


Apart from that the picture is really soft. I think they SUCK compared to a well setup HTPC. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.


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## gn2

I love my Momitsu, its soooooo easy to use and it looks great at 1080i. I have ended up using 1080i for just about everything lately since all three HD sources are 1080i. The latest firmware update makes the Momitsu very nicely detailed. It is NOT as good as my P4 3Gig 800Mhz fsb 1Gig RAM, Radeon 9700 HTPC using Zoom Player with WinDVD video, Cyberlink Audio, and 5 ffdshow filters, BUT, its a single box with a single button to push to start a movie. I likely use it more than half the time now.


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## dokworm

Mark, I think you must have a bad unit, I never got any ghosting, and the image is not what I'd call *really soft*, it is a little softer than a tricked out HTPC, but not by much. (And I can see scanlines easily at 720P so my focus is OK)

The image was noticably softer before the firmware upgrade though - not sure what they did, but it was a big increase in PQ - Mike Parker noticed the same improvement with the firmware upgrade.


The fuss is that you get an image at least 90% as good as a well set up HTPC, and just as good or better than a lot of HTPCs, you get a choice of 480P/576P/720P/1080i all out of a cheap box, that you just turn on and go, that pretty much anyone can operate.

It performs better on the AVIA test discs than much more expensive units from the likes of Denon.

It's also one of the few units that puts out those resolutions via RGB, so no need for a transcoder purchase for us CRT folk.

If you do like to tweak, you can improve the image further with some mods.


HTPCs aren't for everyone, (I love mine, but my family hates it) and the attraction of a cheap, easy to use box that puts out a pretty high quality line doubled/tripled/quadrupled picture is pretty strong for a lot of people.


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## fs123

Im using the liteon 2001 with component out at 1080i and i am never going back to htpc. For me the ease of use i get from using the dvd player greatly out weighs the difference in pq. I also have it built into my hushbox so the cable run is only 1ft compared to the 30+ft i had to use with my htpc. I do wish i had bought the mom. instead since you can select custom resolutions but im going to just wait on the next gen players with wm9 capabilities.


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## JVanderwalker

The thing I like the most is the gain, level, and saturation controls on the V880 which can make up for a less than perfect DVD.

Jim


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## WanMan

Too bad these little puppies were not on the $99 blue light special at K-Mart.


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## jeep lover 2

I'm behind the learning curve here... can someone give a breif background of what this is?


Thanks,

Sean


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## Losers_Revenge

Basically, it's a DVD player that supports custom resolutions. I don't know too much about it, other than people have modded this thing to hell and back to fix issues and improve PQ. Here is a comprehensive list of mods that folks have done to it. I'm not sure if I think this thing is worth it or not. Great in terms of ease of use, but with all the mods people have done to it, I'm begining to wonder if maybe this thing wasn't rushed to market *shrug*


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## Clarence

Quote:

_Originally posted by jeep lover 2_
*I'm behind the learning curve here... can someone give a brief background of what this is?


Thanks,

Sean*


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## kal

A question for the people that have more invested on the AUDIO side of the HT:

_How does the Momitsu sound via SPDIF? (As say, compared to a properly set up HTPC with something like the Audiophile 24/96 outputting SPDIF)._


Kal


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## garyfritz

I don't plan to build an HTPC; as far as I can tell the main benefit of an HTPC is tricked-out DVD playing and the ability to surf the web on your 10' screen.  The Momo seems like a much better/simpler/quieter/cheaper/smaller option than an HTPC if you only use the HTPC for DVD playing, yes? And while it maybe doesn't quite match a hot HTPC for PQ, it sounds like the firmware upgrades are still coming and making it better all the time. Seems like a winner.


I considered getting a cheapie DVD player and feeding it into a decent scaler (which would also handle all other sources: VHS, cable, etc). You can get a good scaler for less than the Momo, and you'll need it anyway. But it sounds like the Momo does a damn good job by itself. So maybe I'll go with the Momo, and tolerate lousy PQ from VHS/cable until I get around to affording a decent scaler. Sensible?


Presumably you would feed the Momo straight to the CRT, yes? Do you have to use some kind of switcher or receiver with multiple vid inputs if you also want to feed the VHS/cable scaler into the CRT?


I'm still trying to figure out some basics, like what kind of WIRE goes from the Momo to the CRT. Coax? Some kind of VGA cable? What should I be running through my walls next week??


Gary


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## Losers_Revenge

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_
*I'm still trying to figure out some basics, like what kind of WIRE goes from the Momo to the CRT. Coax? Some kind of VGA cable? What should I be running through my walls next week??


Gary*
I guess it really depends on what inputs your CRT handles. I'm guessing it's 5 BNC, so your best bet with the Momitsu would be a VGA breakout cable (run through the wall assuming that doesn't break housing code) and then an adapter for the Momitsu (DVI-I to VGA adapter, should be relatively inexpensive). If your projector accepts something else for inputs, then you'd just run that cable as the Momitsu should accept everything else, IIRC.


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## garyfritz

Hm. Unfortunately I'll be doing the wiring before I've actually got a PJ. Guess I'll run a VGA cable to the mount point for now, and run any future wiring needs through the 2" PVC pipe I plan to run from the equipment cabinet to the PJ.


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## Fraza

I'm also using a Momitsu with a Ampro 3600 at 1080i. I moved from a HTPC with MP1 card and TT because I got tired of tweaking. The Momitsu picture is very close to my HTPC. I'm still working on the greyscale but the PQ blows me away when considering the price. I don't plan to go back to a HTPC or even upgrade to a scaler. I will wait for the serious tweaking of the Momitsu to start. After owning and understanding exactly what Mike Parker's MP1 can do for a HTPC, I can't wait to see what it can do for the Momitsu. Sound like we need a thread for Momitsu and CRT tweaking and recommendation. A lot of the current Momitsu post are geared around DLPs.


Andre


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## edsuski

Guys,


The Momitsu V880 is a scaling DVD player based on the Sigma Designs 8500 chip set. It has both component and DVI-I outputs. A simple DVI-I to VGA adapter or DVI-I to VGA (or RGB-HV) cable is all you need to make the connection to most CRT projectors. There are "secret" manufacturing menus that allow you to turn anything that would prevent you from scaling DVD's and that allow you to change, or turn off, the region code for the player. The result is that you can use a scaling DVI player with your analog projector.


The unit comes with pre-sets to scale to 480p, 720p and 1080i. You can also access another menu that allows you to program custom DVI settings. I have used this to output 1704 x 960p @ 48 fps to a Sony 1292. The image is amazing, even on a 119" diagonal 16:9 screen. The Sigma Designs chip does not seem to want to deliver the same at 60 or 72 fps so there are obviously limitations (as one should expect).


To add icing to the cake - the manufacturer has posted numerous firmware updates on their web site in the form of an ISO image that you simply burn to a CD and play on the player to flash the firmware. The updates have fixed several early bugs and actually ADDED features including a screen saver, on screen contrast, brightness and color (?) adjustments etc. Many of the releases of the firmware have included tweaks to the scaling that have made improvements to the image.


As is the case with a lot of new technology, there were a few bugs in the early firmware and, perhaps worst of all, the loader in some of the early units had "problems". As a result, people were coming up with a myriad of modifications including twisting power wires, adding heat sinks, shielded IDE cables, soldering capacitors to the power supply section and even replacing the loader with a computer loader. The usual well intentioned efforts. The bottom line was that the firmware updates fixed virtually all of the minor issues and when the problem was complicated with a faulty loader, the company was more than willing to replace it with a new one. Once you had a working loader in combination with the latest firmware almost all reports of problems ceased. In my case I can report that since I updated the firmware and had the company I purchased the unit from replace the loader - I have had zero problems. The remote and to some degree the build of the unit is what you would expect for a sub $200 unit, but if you use a programmable remote - you will not care.


It is very rare that you see a company (Manowa) provide the kind of support for a product like they have for the Momitsu V880. I think we should show them our support by considering them for our next DVD player purchase. ******** is selling the unit for less than $200 and extremephono is selling it in the US for a similar price when you consider shipping. I only wish AVS would consider selling the unit....


Ed


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## Brian Hampton

It's no coincidence these are often compared to HTPC's. The Mom runs an "on chip" version of linux called UCLinux (Source code available here.. http://www.uclinux.org/ ), uses a standard DVD-Rom drive and a hardware DVD decoder made by the company that pioneered hardware dvd decoder cards for the HTPC (Fusion, dxr2, Hollywood+). It's essentially a linux HTPC.


I have a different Sigma 8500 player and I recently had help from someone who recompiled the firmware removeing some of the static graphics so the chance of burn in is reduced on my CRT.




-Brian


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## gn2

I don't think that a "good" scaler can be purchased for less than the the $200. a Momitsu costs. I've personally tried TONS of scalers, and line doublers, and while there are lots of acceptable used line doublers available for under $200., the ONLY scaler I've used, personally, with an acceptable picture is the Lumagen, and they are a grand.

If it were me, I'd get a good RGB switcher which could switch your HD sources, the Momitsu, and the ouput from your line doubler, and you'd only have one RGBHV(or RGBS) cable going from the switcher to the projector. The formats are the same, between RGB, VGA, RGsB, RGBHV, RGBS, DVI-A, all use the same format, just the connector varies. Component, however, is a different animal and requires a transcoder.

It is always a possibility to make a custom cable to convert between one connector and another, people have been using a DVI-A to VGA gender changer with the Momitsu because its convenient, but a custom cable that is DVI-A on one end and 5 BNC on the other is another possibility, but more expensive.

I've been rambling, hope this gives you some idea of the flexibility of crt front projection.


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## Don Rombach

Now what would be cool is for someone (Chip?) to either put together a v880 "mod pkg" for crt that could be either bought as a package with detailed instructions for the do it your selfer.


Or perhaps even set up a custom "shop" where they buy say 20 players at a time (to save on shipping), and mod the players for crt users with either vga or MP 1 bnc connectors, load the latest firmware, and any other modifications that make sense.


It could even be shipped with a custom resolution as requested by the buyer.


Count me in as a likely customer.


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## stefuel

Well Paul, You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My second idea for the Momitsu was not only to add the MP-1 but to also make the Momitsu a

"hub" with a VGA pass that is active when the Momitsu is turned off and deactivated when turned on with both routed through the MP-1. This is something that I'll have to run buy Mike to get it noise free. This would allow you to connect the vga out from a HD receiver through the Momitsu and the MP-1 eliminating the need for an external switching devise. Nothing on paper yet, just in the thinking stage. I did order a new Momitsu to hack up for testing.


Chip


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## Vadim

This sounds like one impressive player. Now, the question is where can I buy it in Canada?


Vadim


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## Belcherwm

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*Well Paul, You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My second idea for the Momitsu was not only to add the MP-1 but to also make the Momitsu a

"hub" with a VGA pass that is active when the Momitsu is turned off and deactivated when turned on with both routed through the MP-1. This is something that I'll have to run buy Mike to get it noise free. This would allow you to connect the vga out from a HD receiver through the Momitsu and the MP-1 eliminating the need for an external switching devise. Nothing on paper yet, just in the thinking stage. I did order a new Momitsu to hack up for testing.


Chip*
Chip,


I can't wait to see if you can make this happen.


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## dokworm

You could probably talk your local Xbox mod guy into becoming a momitsu mod guy. Anyone that knows which end of a soldering iron gets hot can do all of the mods, and the updates are only a download away. If I was in the US I would offer the service myself, but I doubt anyone wants to pay shipping to Oz and back.


As stated though, if you buy a unit with current firmware, the mods sure aren't *necessary* - they are needed about as much as a PC with a good Radeon card needs an MP-1 mod - totally not necessary, but probably worth doing if you feel the need.


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## Jawhn

Where is the best place to buy one of these and what's a GOOD price?


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## edsuski

 http://www.********.com - less than $200

http://www.extremephono.com/momitsu_dvd_v880.htm - less than $250


AVS - Please offer these players so we can buy them here!


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## WanMan

Whatever happened to the Immersive product (Asymilator?) that was to come in two forms, one with a DVD-transport and one without?


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## garyfritz

edsuski, note that there are shipping costs from ******** and extremephono. ******** is $195 + $85 shipping = $280. extremephono is $247 + $19 shipping = $266.


What is an MP-1, anyway?

Gary


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## stefuel

I ordered the V880 yesterday at 4:00PM EST. I received notification from DHL that the shipment was picked up and on the way before 5:00PM the same day. I actually think there was only about a 45 minute laps between my order and placement on the DHL delivery truck. Now thats quick.


Chip


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## fs123

I not 100% on this but there is a new model mom. coming out shortly if any of you are waiting to pick one up. Might be better to wait to see if the prices drop or the new model offers some new features.


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## gn2

I bought mine from the second link, and in case anyone was interested, I was very pleased with the service I got from them, timely delivery.


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## gn2

The new model is on the second link's website, and is listed as more expensive with more features like streaming, and media server functions.


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## AVWERKS

You might want to ask the suppliers of the V880 if the units they have in stock are the current firmware updated players.


Bought mine late January 2004 but the unit had June 2003 firmware requiring a download for the latest update.


Not a problem for computer user's, but might be for those who don't.


Great player for the money and best bang for the buck I've seen in the last 2 years



David


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## edsuski

Shipping from ******** was only $45 when I purchased mine and it arrived in California in 3 days.


Don't you just hate it when people charge exorbitant amounts for shipping?


Ed


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## stefuel

Who stocks the DVI/HD-15 adapter for these. I want to run this for a while to make sure it's not defective before I hack it up. Thanks,


Chip


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## Don Rombach

Chip,


Cablesnmore.com stocks the adapters.


Bought mine off ebay however. Plenty of sellers on ebay for


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## garyfritz

So you get one of those adapters, then just run an HD-15 (VGA?) cable to the PJ? How do you break out the cable to the PJ -- wire up some BNCs or something on the other end?


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## Lightningman

Hi Garyfritz,

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_
*So you get one of those adapters, then just run an HD-15 (VGA?) cable to the PJ? How do you break out the cable to the PJ -- wire up some BNCs or something on the other end?*
Personally I wouldn't go that route. If you're up to it

mod the Momi and add a set off BNC connectors or

Take apart a DVI genderchanger and make an adapter

from DVI to BNC (sockets).


You' want as few connecters as possible in the video

chain. Every connector can degrade the video.


Greets,

Reinhard


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## garyfritz

Well, adapter to D15 -> VGA cable -> BNCs at end of VGA cable doesn't have any more connectors than adapter to BNCs -> cable/coax -> BNCs at end of cable. Modding the Momo to add BNC out could work but you could also mess up the RF shielding in the box and cause more problems than you solve.


And how does one more set of connectors from the Momo compare to having to run the Momo output through a video switcher to select between DVD and cable/etc?


My bigger concern at this point is what cabling to run, since I'll be wiring this soon. Good quality VGA cable? Or convert the adapter to BNC connections and run three coaxes with BNCs on each end?


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## Lightningman

Hi garyfritz,

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_

My bigger concern at this point is what cabling to run, since I'll be wiring this soon. Good quality VGA cable? Or convert the adapter to BNC connections and run three coaxes with BNCs on each end? [/b]
I'd go for good grade video cable (75ohm). Depending

on your run maybe even RG-6.


Greets,

Reinhard


Oh, btw you'll need 5 BNC cables (RGBHV) or

at least 4 (RGBs). I wouldn't go for sync on

green and as far as I know, the momi doesn't

offer sync on green. Or does your pj support

YUV?


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## Don Rombach

Just keep it simple.


DVI-I to vga adapter/ then 5BNC breakout cable to pj.


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## garyfritz

Simple I'm not too worried about. I can run a soldering iron. (I even know which end to hold.  ) My run won't be that long, maybe 10' or so, but maybe I'll have the electrician run 5 lengths of RG-6 and 1 length of good VGA so I can take my pick. It's cheap and easy to do it while the walls are open. (Plus a 2-3" PVC pipe for future DVI or who-knows-what cable.) Then get the DVI-I connector and put BNC's on it so I go straight from Momo -> DVI/BNC -> RG-6 -> PJ. Seems like that would be better than the VGA cable. Though VGA cable should be good for at least 1600x1200, probably more.


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## stefuel

How do you get into the hidden menu? I read a post on this months ago in the DVD forum but can't for the life of me find it. Thanks,


Chip


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## AVWERKS

stefuel


I haven't touched mine in months because it's set where I want it, but try this



using the arrow keys: DN-UP-DN-UP-R-L


David


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## gn2

With no dvd in the drive, I think it's "down-up-down-up-right-left" to open the secret menu.


To get in the custom dvi menu, go into setup and get on the DVI video selection, then pres "9-7-1-3" and you can put in your custom settings. (be sure to write down the original ones just in case...)


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## stefuel

What other resolutions and options are available in the custom DVI menu? Mine won't get here till Thursday. Thanks,


Chip


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## Belcherwm

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*What other resolutions and options are available in the custom DVI menu? Mine won't get here till Thursday. Thanks,


Chip*
Here's a good thread on setting up Momitsu V880 custom resolutions 


My bad on forgetting the link.


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## gn2

Where ?? Is there a link I can't see ??

I'm normally pretty confused, and now I'm even more confused.


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## stefuel

Oh good, I thought it was just me.


Chip


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## stefuel

My Momitsu showed up today (two day's in advance). So far the purchase has gone better than planned. I cracked open the box to get a look at the doner machine. IMHO it's kind of elegant looking in a plain sort of way. I hooked it up to a computer monitor with a DVI/HD-15 adapter and off the shelf monitor cable. This may be new but I was under the impression that this had only 1080I and 720P in the user menu. Mine has about seven. I have not even tried the secret menu yet. I tried both 720P and 1080I and both seemed to work fine. I'll hook it up to my NEC tonight and see how it performs on a larger screen. I almost died when I put in the first disk and it froze up 5 minutes into the movie. I popped the disk to examine it, PB and J finger prints. Whew.


Chip


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## dokworm

Where did you buy yours from just out of interest?


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## kal

Custom resolutions (a la PowerStrip) are possible? I didn't know that! This thing's getting more interesting all time!


Now all they need is a way to skip movie menus/intros!


Kal


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## Briands

Does this thing do WMV? Is there any chance that it could in the future with firmware? I guess it would have trouble with phone home DRM, but maybe the On Disc DRM will become the more common version.


That would be really sweet.


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## stefuel

Now I've done it. I tried the secret password and lost the default settings. Now I have a scrambled picture and can't tell what I'm doing. Anyone know how to restore this back to factory settings?


Chip


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## Belcherwm

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*Now I've done it. I tried the secret password and lost the default settings. Now I have a scrambled picture and can't tell what I'm doing. Anyone know how to restore this back to factory settings?


Chip*
Try pushing the video input button a number of times to cycle through the different resolutions.


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## kal

Quote:

_Originally posted by Briands_
*Does this thing do WMV? Is there any chance that it could in the future with firmware? I guess it would have trouble with phone home DRM, but maybe the On Disc DRM will become the more common version.


That would be really sweet.*
It doesn't do WMV now and I would imagine that there's no possibility of it doing it with a firmware update since Microsoft WM9 playback requires a whole pile of extra processing power that wouldn't be available in the unit since it's not needed for regular NTSC scaling/playback.


Kal


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## stefuel

All fixed. random pushes of buttons. Not to scientific but it works.

As this is brand new, should I assume that it has the latest firmware?

Thanks,


Chip


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## cheez

I'd like to get rid of my HTPC, but I like being able to adjust gamma. Does the momitsu have a gamma adjustment?


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## gn2

No, do not assume it has the latest firmware, just check it.


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## dokworm

It can't do WMV, but they are designing a new player based around the new sigma chipset that supports WMV...that's the unit I am hanging out for... (Bravo already has a unit apparently, but needs a hack to get hirez out of the analogue feed.)


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## Briands

Any thought on the audio from a WMV disc? Will it use analog only out or will it convert to DD over SPDIF? What does the Bravo do?


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## garyfritz

Dokworm, any idea of ETA on that unit? If they're still designing it I assume it's still a ways away. I'll want a DVD player of SOME kind in my theater in a month, and unless I buy an outboard scaler it'll have to be the Momi or similar.


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## fs123

Those players arnt due till the end of the year i believe, but even than there is little point since there arnt many wmv titles out to even take advatage of it. I simply hoping for a nice price drop on the current mom players.


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## Pedro-in-Oz

They are talking August for release, but who knows, it could end up later and we don't know the price either.

I would get a momo now if you are looking for something, and then get a WMV player next year when there are a few to choose from and have the bugs ironed out.


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## garyfritz

Ya, I didn't figure the new one would be worth waiting for.


But dumb question: I know the Momo puts out a great signal on its own. I'm wondering if that's the only/best way to do it, considering the Momo still leaves me with lousy signals from cable/sat/VCR/etc.


How would the Momo output compare to running a more vanilla DVD player through a decent scaler/deinterlacer? ("Decent" being limited by my very tight budget, unfortunately.) If you run the DVD through one of those, it doesn't even have to be a progressive player, does it?


I'm just wondering how "Momo direct to PJ, plus lousy cable signals" compares to "Momo to PJ, plus deinterlaced/scaled cable signals" (how much more for that scaler?), compared to "vanilla DVD plus cable/etc through scaler". Any thoughts/recommendations?


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## Clarence

Gary-


I know the $69 N4 was panned by a few users, but it sounds like the


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## gn2

I've owned or tried, or seen just about all the cheap scalers, line doublers, and signal processors, and personally, you won't get an image as good as the Momitsu's unless you get a Lumagen. It is the ONLY cheap scaler I've seen that can match the Momitsu's image quality, IMHO. For other video sources, get a cheap line doubler like an NEC IDC and use the Momitsu for DVD.


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## Fraza

Gentlemen,


I don't post that often but I had to jump in on this one. I'm running my Momitsu with an Extron 109 Plus. The Extron boost the signal and allows for a sharper and punchier picture. There is a little noise introduced but the picture really becomes something to see. I hope Robert Wood will jump in with his comments because he's seen my set up and we've compared it to his NEC HT1000 with Momitsu via DVI. I'm running a Ampro 3600 on a 80" ScreenGoo screen. I tried the Momitsu without the Extron and the picture was too soft and hard to get the brightness and contrast dialed in. Before you knock my setup, try it. Extron boxes can be had for very very cheap these days on Ebay. Some CRT, like the Ampro 3600, need a stronger signal than what the Momitsu is putting out. This setup will hold me over until someone completes the mating of a Momitsu and MP1 mod.


Andre

Pensacola HT Club (Fraza, Robert Wood, and KennyG)


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## gn2

Cool, that sounds like a good solution to a slightly annoying aspect of the Momitsu. I like the picture controls it has now, but I wish they were finer, as its difficult to find the best balance of Brightness, Contrast. With the addition of the Extron, I'm sure it would be easier to dial in the proper overall picture level. A side effect I've noticed myself using an Extron, is that it converts the synch to negative negative for use with finnicky projectors like the Sony 1031Q and the earlier Barco's.


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## wonsug

MP-1 modification of Modix, a korean Momitsu clone has already made by Sungjun Park.

Color filtered 1209s was fed with it and the result was fantastic. No noticeable improvement in the resolution but the color and dynamic range was highly improved.

http://www.avforum.co.kr/bbs/data/co...1075482303.jpg 

a momitsu clone modix

http://www.avforum.co.kr/bbs/data/co...1074140350.jpg 
http://www.avforum.co.kr/bbs/data/comt_3/1075289897.gif 


Momitsu


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## Fraza

This is truly starting to get interesting!



Andre


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## Lightningman

Hi,


Very interesting indeed. However, since I will be building

a video switcher (for all my input sources) and this will

contain a gamma correction circuit and a line driver, I

don't need the MP-1 mod 


Since Mike is feeling better, I sure hope he (or Chip) will

disclose the Momitsu secrets mentioned in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=momitsu 


A direct quote from yet another thread:


quote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarence,

when modded it is a killer product, but this was after I had made

a few changes on the PC board. Not sure if the DVI port is also

a VGA out, because there's no visual indication of VGA on the

rear of the unit.


I was using component out into my transcoder. The unit should

work well with the other transcoders as well, because I don't

think it's putting out tri-level sync , therefore it should not pose

a challenge for any of the bargain transcoders.


The mod requires that you remove some components and then

reinstall 9 different components on the board. Once that's done,

it really looks good. I plan to post the mod for this unit on my

website before the month is out

----------------------------------------------------------------------



My soldering iron is always waiting for mods 

Are you (Chip or Mike) up to disclosing the mods ?


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## dokworm

Yeah, give it up kids - we wanna see that mod!


----------



## hitman22

Oh my god!


Hey Mr. wonsug, you post my picture....

Yes...I installed mp-1 mod to Momitsu and Modix(The Korean clone momitsu) several times already with my AV friends. Also we got the remarkable result.


The resolution is same level, but we got the noise reduction(so good), and strong contrast & brightness level up(real wonderful), so deep color(so fantastic).


I has been used teranex(sdi), faroudja, vigatec(sdi), extron(sdi), etc with my 1209S(color filtered) crt projector...but I think Momitsu+mp-1 show similar performance compare with vigatec+sdi, and faroudja. Maybe you don't believe my words, but it is true. I think this solution is more better performance than HTPC(ATI+mp-1).


I'm a sysop of " www.avforum.co.kr (this forum is korean AVForum)" and memebr of "club-barco" in AVForum, korea" our Forum member knows well this result. Also we use this solution for barco crt.


This solution is so simple and easy for DIY. I will posting all picture and methord step by step as soon as possible in new thread.


Thanks.


----------



## dokworm

Wow hitman - we can hardly wait!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_

[B


My soldering iron is always waiting for mods 

Are you (Chip or Mike) up to disclosing the mods ?


Greets,

Reinhard [/b]
Well,

since Park has posted on this same matter, what say we leave it up to him to disclose.


I'll stay out of this one.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Mike,

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*Well,

since Park has posted on this same matter, what say we leave it up to him to disclose.

I'll stay out of this one.*
Hmm, seems to me as if these are two different mods or am

I mistaking? Wonsug and hitman22 have installed your MP-1

into the momitsu (mod 1) and you (mod 2) were talking about

replacing some 9 components on the Sigma 8500 board (which

is the mod I'm interested in).


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Don Rombach

holy moley!


I'll be practicing soldering techniques. Can't be much harder than copper pipe, right


----------



## fs123

I say we replace the components on the sigma board and use the mp1 mod


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Don,

Quote:

_Originally posted by Don Rombach_
*holy moley!

Can't be much harder than copper pipe, right*
Naa, as a matter of fact using that propane flame on

the Sigma board *could* give you a speed advantage

over us "normal" guys as you probably will be able to

unsolder all 9 components at once.


SCNR!   


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## hitman22

Hi! Mike & everyone.


How about your health now Mike?

I will post all step Momitsu+mp1 DIY tommorow.

A little bit wait.


----------



## AVWERKS

hitman 22


Excellent!


Other than the mod, do any of the other adjustment's the player has get changed or deleted?


David


----------



## stefuel

Damn, I stay away from the computer for two days and someone steals my thunder. Just kidding. I've been thinking about this for months and knew it would work. The only thing I did not know was how well it would work. I just did not have the time to do anything about it. As of now, I was unaware that anyone had tried this. I contacted Mike a couple of weeks ago and put the idea to him (what I thought was an original idea) but he had to much going on to put in any time on it so I said F it, I'll do it. I just got my Momitsu to do it to. I just popped the cover to get a look inside then saw these last few pages of my thread. Oh well, you snooze you loose. Someone beat me to the punch. But that's cool. We now know that, that part of the mod works and works well. I can direct my energy to the other part of the mod, making it a "HUB" by adding a VGA pass.


Chip


----------



## RobertWood

After seeing the V880/Extron picture with Andre's AmPro 3600, I think we are finally close to putting the HTPC's out to pasture. All that's left is to find a way to adjust gamma a little to be able to bring out the low level detail. But even without that, I think for me the increase in convenience factor using a DVD player says put a fork in the HTPC's. They're done.


----------



## fs123

No gamma correction is the sole limitation of these players. Do any stb dvd players have a gamma correction ability?


----------



## igroucho

Hitman22:


I looked at the Modix but all websites are in korean. There is an option to connect a harddrive to this player. Is this an ordinary harddrive or is there something special about it?


----------



## HV-MAN

I'm seriously considering purchasing this player as I don't have the time or $$ for a HTPC ATM.


I'm using a sony switcher and the connection from the player to the switcher input unit will be very short. (


----------



## wonsug

modix's marketing point in korea is that it is a Divx player.

No wonder why harddrive is an option. You don't have to burn the CDs.


----------



## Brian Hampton

Hey,


Well, I've removed the HTPC from the theater. I have a DreamX which is somewhat similar to the Momitsu as they are both Sigma 8500 players.


I think I'm going to redo the HTPC as a linux computer in my regular computer desk and then.. I'll use the source code that's been made available for Sigma 8500 players to make some mods at the firmware level. I'll have a steep learning curve though.


-Brian


----------



## gn2

Add gamma control and a sharpness filter control and everyone will abandon HTPC for the Momitsu.


----------



## fs123

Does the momitsu have the same ringing problem as the Liteon 2001 has? Its very evedent when using 1080i and is to the right of the image.


----------



## garyfritz

Chip, what exactly did you mean by making the Momo a "hub"? Are you saying you want to be able to route other video signals through it?


Figure out some way to route signals in, and run them through the Sigma scaler engine, and I think you'd have an absolutely KILLER setup. Then you wouldn't need an outboard scaler/deinterlacer for cable/sat/VCR. Right?


For now it seems like the Momo is a great answer for somebody who doesn't want to take the HTPC route. Excellent player -- maybe not hardcore-videophile quality, according to this thread , but very good -- with great support (so far) from the company, the potential for outstanding upgrades later on if I decide to spring for an MP-1 & hitman's mods, and/or add Chip's upcoming mod, and possible support from enthusiasts like Brian hacking the firmware to add new features. Hard to beat that for $250!


Gary


----------



## Lightningman

Hi,

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_
*Chip, what exactly did you mean by making the Momo a "hub"? Are you saying you want to be able to route other video signals through it?


Figure out some way to route signals in, and run them through the Sigma scaler engine, and I think you'd have an absolutely KILLER setup. Then you wouldn't need an outboard scaler/deinterlacer for cable/sat/VCR. Right?


Gary*
Wrong, because the Sigma engine doesn't process the

signals analog, but rather digitally. There are no analog

input pins on the 8500 chip.



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## garyfritz

Oh.


Well, that DOES kinda mess up that idea, doesn't it!!


----------



## Lightningman

Hi garygritz,

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_
*Oh.


Well, that DOES kinda mess up that idea, doesn't it!! *
Yes, that was the first thing I checked out on the

Momi after I got it and open the chassis 


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*Hi Mike,




Hmm, seems to me as if these are two different mods or am

I mistaking? Wonsug and hitman22 have installed your MP-1

into the momitsu (mod 1) and you (mod 2) were talking about

replacing some 9 components on the Sigma 8500 board (which

is the mod I'm interested in).


Greets,

Reinhard*
My mod procedure was done to the component out (Y,Pr,Pb) only. I've not use the VGA or RGBHV out on the Momitsu.


Park,

so far I'm doing very well. I'm amazed at how well I'm doing inb such a short time. I also have a new shop that I'm really excited about. So look forward to some good things to be announced... I'm myself again.


----------



## Brian Hampton

"My mod procedure was done to the component out (Y,Pr,Pb) only. I've not use the VGA or RGBHV out on the Momitsu. "


This is the one I would like to hear about. Because I'm using the component output of my player.


-Brian


----------



## dokworm

There is no reason that you couldn't add gamma and sharpening to the unit via a firmware update I would imagine.

Anyone gotten onto the manufacturer, they have been pretty responsive in the past - Wonder if there is an SDK for the momo?


----------



## stefuel

I've been looking at Hitmans pictures of the mod installation. I'm trying to figure out where he is getting switched power for the MP-1 power supply.

Unless I missed something, everything in that area is live full time. I only had time for a quick poke around with a meter so it could be me.


Chip


----------



## kal

Quote:

_Originally posted by gn2_
*Add gamma control and a sharpness filter control and everyone will abandon HTPC for the Momitsu.*
Note quite!


A few things missing (which TheaterTek have):


- Aspect Ratio control and automatically setting AR correctly by reading the AR flag on DVD, along with per-DVD AR editing for some of those "oddball" DVD's.

- A "Set Movie Start" feature so that you skip the intros and menu next time you pop in the movie (also plays with your sound option selected such as DTS or DD).


It's getting close though!


Kal


----------



## Brian Hampton

"Aspect Ratio control and automatically setting AR correctly by reading the AR flag on DVD, along with per-DVD AR editing for some of those "oddball" DVD's."


If the momitsu is like my DreamX (and I think it is in this regard) then the once the AR is set in the menus (16:9 screen defined) then flags are used to control the AR of program material.


I have some discs that are non-animorphic widescreen but flagged as 4:3.. one push of the zoom button displays them properly.


-Brian


----------



## Brian Hampton

"Wonder if there is an SDK for the momo?"


Well.. the source code that I downloaded is really a SDK for Sigma players. That means it should apply to Momo and my DreamX and other players like the Bravo.


I haven't gotten Linux up and running but I had a look through the source code that I DL'ed using WinZip and there's a lot there.


I don't know if I'll have all the needed tools to do much with the SDK but I can certainly make "skins" for the players so that some of the static graphics can be removed or made red and therefore CRT friendly.


-Brian


----------



## kal

_Originally posted by Brian Hampton_
*"Aspect Ratio control and automatically setting AR correctly by reading the AR flag on DVD, along with per-DVD AR editing for some of those "oddball" DVD's."


If the momitsu is like my DreamX (and I think it is in this regard) then the once the AR is set in the menus (16:9 screen defined) then flags are used to control the AR of program material.*


Interesting! So it does work!

*have some discs that are non-animorphic widescreen but flagged as 4:3.. one push of the zoom button displays them properly.*


All non-anamorphic discs are flagged as 4:3 since in fact it is a 4:3 disc, just that only a portion of the 4:3 window is used. So it's impossible for any software or hardware player to know the difference between a regular fullscreen 4:3 dvd and a non-anamorphic widescreen movie that's only using part of the 4:3 frame for the 1.78:1 (or whatever) image.


Kal


----------



## dokworm

Wow, where did you get the SDK from - I wanna get hacking


----------



## kkanizar

Well... now if we could get the MP-1 Mod sold separately... pick up a Momitsu and do the installation on my workbench... Hmm.... would this be possible?


----------



## HV-MAN

Quote:

_Originally posted by kkanizar_
*Well... now if we could get the MP-1 Mod sold separately... pick up a Momitsu and do the installation on my workbench... Hmm.... would this be possible?*
Can't you get it seperate?


Our reseller in Aust sells it mod only

http://www.hometheatrepc.com.au/default.php?cPath=21 



It would be a good kit for MP to put together, maybe MP-1.4

(mod + detailed instructions etc)


----------



## Brian Hampton

"All non-anamorphic discs are flagged as 4:3 since in fact it is a 4:3 disc, just that only a portion of the 4:3 window is used. So it's impossible for any software or hardware player to know the difference between a regular fullscreen 4:3 dvd and a non-anamorphic widescreen movie that's only using part of the 4:3 frame for the 1.78:1 (or whatever) image."


Actually, I think you are not correct. For example Lady and the Tramp is non animorhpic widescreen but I think it's flagged as such because it displays already zoomed. In Zoomplayer's advanced aspect ratio setup page you could preset how you wanted animophic, 4:3 and letterbox (meaning non-animorphic widescreen.) Apperently you can still set a flag if you're a widescreen disc that's not animorphic.


dokworm,


The SDK is here..

http://www.uclinux.org/pub/uClinux/ports/arm/EM8500/ 


-Brian


----------



## Halo1963

Can some put a link in for wonsug's mod


Where can you get the momitsu in Australia


----------



## epatsellis

re: gamma control


My Marantz VC-8100 does, and you get a 300+1 disc changer too....



erie


----------



## HV-MAN

Quote:

_Originally posted by Halo1963_
*Can some put a link in for wonsug's mod


Where can you get the momitsu in Australia*
Michael Fugaro is importing them into Australia.

I think he's asking $450AUD


It costs around $400AUD to import from O/S.

It's probably worth paying the extra $50AUD for having seller in Aust for warranty purposes etc


I've been told he is currently opening a shop. He's located in Melbourne.


His email [email protected] 


Check out this thread on HTcentral

http://www.htcentral.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=875


----------



## kal

Quote:

_Originally posted by Brian Hampton_
*Actually, I think you are not correct. For example Lady and the Tramp is non animorhpic widescreen but I think it's flagged as such because it displays already zoomed. In Zoomplayer's advanced aspect ratio setup page you could preset how you wanted animophic, 4:3 and letterbox (meaning non-animorphic widescreen.) Apperently you can still set a flag if you're a widescreen disc that's not animorphic.*
Interesting! Are you sure there's a flag to differentiate between letterbox and 4:3? It makes sense that there are two different AR setups available in ZoomPlayer (or any other player for that matter) since you you need to zoom in for letterbox movies while you don't for 4:3 movies. But actually having a different flag on the DVD is another matter.


If you stick in a letterbox movie and ZoomPlayer knows to use the letterbox AR settings instead of the 4:3 AR settings (or vice versa if it's a fullscreen 4:3 movie), then I'll agree! But I remember this coming up some years ago when TheaterTek first came out and Andrew Chilvers (the author) brought up at the time that there was no difference in the two in terms of the flags on the DVD so you have to manually switch over to your "letterbox" AR setup for letterbox movies.


Now, with TheaterTek (and most likely Zoomplayer as well), once you set the AR to use for any specific movie, the player will remember to use the same AR next time.


I probably have 100 or 150 non-anamorphic letterbox movies and out of the probably 50-60 I've played with TheaterTek, non have automatically used the my "letterbox" AR settings the first time I play them. They've always started up in 4:3 mode in Theatertek making me have to hit my "AR" button on the remote to cycle over the my "letterbox" AR setup (which I then save for that disk so that it comes up correctly next time).


I'd search for the discussion we had with Andrew on the TheaterTek forum but alas, it looks like theatertek.com is down at the moment!


Kal


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by kkanizar_
*Well... now if we could get the MP-1 Mod sold separately... pick up a Momitsu and do the installation on my workbench... Hmm.... would this be possible?*
One of the things that will be announced when the changes are made to my website, will probably include the MP-1 as being purchased separately, or possibly kit form. I can't say for sure, mainly because individual sales/mods will be offered by someone other than myself.


----------



## kkanizar

Mike,


That sounds great! I would prefer to purchase directly from you. You created it... no middle men....


----------



## Brian Hampton

Kal,


I believe there are 3 flags for DVD's. Animophic, 4:3, and Non-Animorphic widescreen. In ZP, you can set how each of these is handled per the flag. This is different from the various presets and this doesn't function like Dscaler where some evaluation of the black pixels is used to determine AR.


I have non animorphic discs with correct and incorrect flags though it's hard for me to remember which are which. I think Hair, and Angie are flagged as 4:3 although they are widescreen while Lady and the Tramp is non animorphic but it's flagged as widescreen and zooms automatically.


I could be wrong but I think that's right.


(Maybe even if you don't switch to Momitsu.. you may want to check out ZP.  )


-Brian


----------



## Halo1963

Does the MP-1 come standard on any cards if it does can some one list them

i know heaps of users have shown interest in getting this separate

Is this going to be possible soon ?


----------



## kal

Quote:

_Originally posted by Brian Hampton_
*I believe there are 3 flags for DVD's. Animophic, 4:3, and Non-Animorphic widescreen. In ZP, you can set how each of these is handled per the flag. This is different from the various presets and this doesn't function like Dscaler where some evaluation of the black pixels is used to determine AR.*
Brian, I did some more research and you're right! There *is* a AR flag available on DVD for letterbox (non-anamorphic widescreen). There are actually 4 AR flags available: Anamorphic, 4:3, Letterbox, and 16x9 pan&scan (used by some DVD menus).


As it turns out, all of my letterbox DVD's that I've tried as MIS-FLAGGED as 4:3 movies probably because they're very old (1997'ish).

Quote:

_Originally posted by Halo1963_
*Does the MP-1 come standard on any cards if it does can some one list them

i know heaps of users have shown interest in getting this separate

Is this going to be possible soon ?*
The MP-1 does not come standard from any manufacturer. You have to buy the modified cards from various places that are approved to do the install since it requires soldering skills.


Mike mentions a few posts above about possibly providing a separate kit in the future... This may be a kit that will attach directly to your VGA output (no soldering required), but better still is to use the method currently used in which the mod is directly connected the MP-1 to the video output traces on the card BEFORE the signal has a chance to go through the low pass RF filter (which most cards have to varying degrees).


Even if Mike decides to release an add-on kit for the DIY "soldering-iron equipped" crowd, I understand his hesitation. If someone's not very careful they could easily wreck their video card while soldering on the MP-1, resulting in an angry phone call because the end user thinks that the MP-1 mod doesn't work!  I've bypassed the RF filters on pretty much every video card I've ever owned and it's pretty dainty soldering work what with all the surface mount components...


Kal


----------



## Brian Hampton

Kal,


Quite a few of my non animorphic widescreen titles are also flagged as 4:3. You would figure if the person doing the transfer knew enough to set up the right flag he/she would maybe also consider animorphic enhancement as well.


So.. if the title is flagged properly the AR will be automatic and if not the first zoom function (they are labeled like Zoom1, Zoom2, ect.) will fix the rest. If you jump to a chapter and then zoom the zoom will be canceled when the dvd moves to the next chapter but if you're like me and just start the movie at the beginning and push zoom it sticks.




-Brian


----------



## Halo1963

The RGBHV mod for CRT has a big following

Mike Parker's work is without doubt quality work

However a lot of us would like to mod the Momitsu for RGBHV our selves

The Momitsu has a lot of room inside and the mod does not have to be the MP-1 which is designed to fit on a video card inside a PC

You have to remove the BNC connectors anyway


There is a great knowledge base at this forum

The MP-1 specifications are well detailed so we know what we are after

Quote

The MP-1 mod is a high bandwidth RGB true 75 ohm line driver and filter circuit. It has a dual output that will allow two different output voltages. The voltage level for each of the three driver stages can be selected by using three mini jumpers that are attached on the mod circuit. Removing the jumpers will put the mod in the unity gain state (0.7Vpp in - 0.7Vpp out). With the jumpers on, the output level should be 0.76 to 0.79 Vpp output, with a 0.7 Vpp input. The circuits filtering will produce cleaner, tighter video. The MP-1 also improves and clarifies shadow detail, providing an improvement in image quality and improved color rendering. These dramatic results are accomplished with a very unique active filtering process, supported by a mini isolated switching power supply. In order to truly reap all the benefits, the MP-1 must have complimentary true 75 ohm, high quality high bandwidth cables and associated switchers (if used).

end Quote


Could some one please start a DIY thread

Or advise if this is beyond the users of this forum


May be Mike could help as this would not be the MP-1


Thanks


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Halo et all,


>Could some one please start a DIY thread

>Or advise if this is beyond the users of this forum


Basically it's not that complicated. You have all the info

in your quote 


I and a few others have tried to get the info on the Momistu

mod from Mike. Sadly enough he doesn't want to disclose it.

The Hitman22 mod was, as I suspected it to be, just a simple

addendum of a mp1 PCB to the Momitsu's ouput.


I have never seen a MP1, so I can't comment on it, but

the basic problem is that consumer stuff doesn't have the

"guts" to power long video lines. This holds true for video

cards and DVD players,etc. If you only have a short run

form your source to your PJ, I seriously doubt that the MP1

will increase the pq at all. Even MP can't provide video

voodoo.


Basically what the MP-1 does is remove the filtering circuits

at the DACs (where as the Hitmann22 mod, doesn't seem

to include this) as these cut off too soon. The next step is

running the source's output to a line buffer. Take a look at

Maxim or Linear Technolgies. They make great ICs that have

plenty of bandwidth for our PJs. You are not interested in

upping the output level, but rather being able to drive a

capacitive line (your long video lines). Some Maxim chips

have the possibility to select a different output level, but

even those that don't, you can still add a slight gain by

changing the feedback resistor op the OP-AMP (which is

what a video buffer basically is). However, rather than

upping the video level, it would be better to correct the

gamma value and stay with the standard 0.7Vpp video

level.


Mike might even be using video reconstruction filters. But from

the scope pictures I have seen (from my own experiments),

these aren't worth a damn for the normal 5-8 Mhz we are

interested in. They may make a difference in HDTV, tho.


As to using an isolated switcher PSU to drive the buffer, I

would wager to say this makes NO difference on pq. The

problem being that while you are isolating the power on

the plus side, you are reconnecting it back at the ground

plane. Every computer has minus and ground from the

mains on the chassis. The same holds true for comsumer

devices like the Momitsu. As you mount the BNC connectors

in the chassis, you are reconnecting the ground that you

just isolated via the seperate PSU, to the minus of the

feeder (Momitsu or PC or whatever) PSU. So in reality you

no longer have isolation of the ground (esp since PJs are

grounded on the chassis anyway). Notice I am talking about

ISOLATING the PSU. I would most certainly, however, use

a stabilized and seperate PSU to provide power for the line

buffer.


The only really tricky part in making a DIY MP-1 is the PCB design.

This takes a little bit of knowledge to minimize crosstalk and

prevent unwanted interference. However, nothing that can't be

done. Esp in the age of SMD devices and using a two sided PCB

with a large ground plane.


Also if you are interested in true PQ, go for RGBHV instead

of the consumer "crap" called component video. A mathematician

will tell you that you can losslessly convert RGB to YUV and vice

versa. A real world technician will tell this ain't possible. The

mathwiz tends to forget one thing called parts tolerence. YUV is

a mix of signals (Y is sync and brightness and U V are color

difference signals) and ANY conversion of a video signal WILL

cause quality loss.


RGB is the direct connection to ANY output device as your CRTs (ANY

kind) are RGB output devices. There are NO YUV output devices in

this world. So why is YUV being hyped about? One reason (the only

one) ** IT IS CHEAPER **. You've reduced bandwidth (no longer

need true hq cables), you only have three lines instead of five, which

makes for less connections (=$$$) and the design of a switcher (look

into the AV amps on the market) requires less care and makes it once

again cheaper. That's why component video is SO great.


I wish that some of the myths on HiFi and videophile stuff would just

die. Remember those special CD markers, or those quality enhancing

power cords? or how about those super expensive "oxygeon free"

Monster Cables? It's all just BS. Take a look inside your amp and see

what size wire or trace is being run from the power transistor to the

LS output jacks. If you then feel foolish that you are running AWG 1

cables from there to your loudspeakers, then you have just discovered

the "magic" of HiFi voodoo.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## JVanderwalker

Reinhard,

You forgot one thing the DVD disks and HDTV are all encoded YUV or component which does degrade the color resolution. There is no recovering what is allready lost. What MP does is to make sure we don't lose anymore from the D/A process which the digital "experts" has lost the formula but we analog folks still remember.

Jim


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Jim,


You are are correct that the data is stored this way, BUT component

video is an analog(!) signal, which means the data on the DVD still

has to run through a D/A whether it's component or RGBHV output.


Where you perhaps thinking of DVI?


The basic signal path for RGBHV would be:


DVD - D/A (RGBHV) - (line driver) - CRT VIM - CRT Neckboards


for YUV it would be:


DVD - D/A (YUV*) - (line driver) - CRT VIM - YUV to RGBHV - CRT Neckboards


*as far as I know there are no D/A's that output YUV directly.

They all internally convert the YUV that is stored on the DVD to

RGBHV and then convert it via a matrix to YUV output on the

actual IC pins. Even if there is a D/A that does a direct conversion

from the digital data stored on the DVD to YUV, component video

still has at *least* one additional conversion being done before

entering the CRTs.



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## JVanderwalker

Reinhard,

I agree there is at least one D/A conversion for our CRT's. It is a shame that there is no source material that is pure RGB right from a 3 chip camera right to our screens. Being in the optical imaging business I have seen how good it can be.

Jim


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*


I have never seen a MP1, so I can't comment on it, but

the basic problem is that consumer stuff doesn't have the

"guts" to power long video lines. This holds true for video

cards and DVD players,etc. If you only have a short run

form your source to your PJ, I seriously doubt that the MP1

will increase the pq at all. Even MP can't provide video

voodoo.


Basically what the MP-1 does is remove the filtering circuits

at the DACs (where as the Hitmann22 mod, doesn't seem

to include this) as these cut off too soon. The next step is

running the source's output to a line buffer.Greets,

Reinhard*
If you've never seen or have experienced a MP-1, how could waste such valuable time on a thread describing how to duplicate something you've never seen?


Let me know when you've put together your "basic" circuit. And why you're at it, take a stab at explaining why the MP-1 performs so much different than the COMMERCIAL buffers, that are made by Extron, Altinex and Inline.


What I really want you to explain is how the MP-1 delivers a very sharp image with very little noise, and keep in mind that you'll also have to do the same thing once your design is finished.


And since you've gotten started on this rant, what is it I'm doing to the Marquee boards to get them to perform as such. And later on, I'll show you how to convert component to RGB with very litle loss -- but for now, first things first


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Mike,


> If you've never seen or have experienced a MP-1, how could waste

> such valuable time on a thread describing how to duplicate something

> you've never seen?


and later on in the text:


>And since you've gotten started on this rant


Sorry to hear you feel that way! I NEVER said, that you haven't created

something worthwhile. Whether or not I decide to spend that much

money on something or DIYing it is pretty much MY own choice. I never

ranted about the MP-1 not being any good. I think you are reading

something in between the lines which is NOT there.


The ONLY thing I said is that on a short cable run, "I" doubt the

MP-1 will make much (if any) of a difference. Why not show me

some scope pictures to prove me wrong, if I am.


> Let me know when you've put together your "basic" circuit.


Sure, I'll post some pics along with the schematics once it

is finished. I am in the process of building a switcher which

will incorperate the video line driver and it isn't the first video

line buffer I have built 


>And why you're at it, take a stab at explaining why the MP-1 performs


Since I haven't seen an MP-1 this would be kind of hard. Probably

one reason is quantity vs. quality?


Please don 't try to make me believe in any kind of voodoo stuff,

because I won't. Period. If you are using low noise buffers and

have a decient PCB design, you'll get good results. If you can

design a filter that will kill or at least lower background noise,

this will improve the output, too. I also never said the MP-1 is

a waste of money (which is what you seem to imply that I am

saying) and if your customers are happy with the results, that's

great.


>what is it I'm doing to the Marquee boards to get them to perform as


I never said a word about your circuit redesign of the Marquee video

path. You yourself said its the best video path that you have ever

seen. If your mods make it perform even better, thats great news.


But once again I always question the cost vs. improvement. "I" don't

see any sense in spending mucho dinero for an improvement which

I "really" have to look for to see the differences. I watch my movies and

don't watch my movies for faults. For me that isn't the point of enjoying

a big screen. If someone wants or can spend the money on the mods,

that's fine with me.


I am always thankfull for ideas and mods and really enjoy most of

your posts AND I realize that you make a living out of your work.

However, I don't think its correct to damn all DIY work and say it

won't be as good as pro stuff. While I AM a newbie at CRTs (roughly

6 months) I sure am NOT a newbie at electronics.


That's all I am going to post about this.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## mp20748

For some reason there seems to be a belief that a line driver is a line driver, as well that as long as it displays a reasonable square wave at the usable frequency, all will be well -- wrong!


Why does a $300.00 (economy) audio amplifier have the exact same specs as a $8000.00 (Hi End) audio amp, giving that the Hi End amp sounds so much better?


The answer is simple, complex and somewhat confusing... and that's why I stopped looking at specs, especially for IC's. they all seem to have very good spec's. In fact I don't know of a chip that has bad specs, or would not pass the square wave test. They all have good spec's and would pass any known test that you could throw at them. the concern should go beyond the specs, and should be based on visual performance. Now this takes time, because you'll have to test each chip in the designed circuit, and you'll have to see how well it behaves on several non standard (proprietary) tests. This takes time, because most of the chips out there are too noisy in an actual circuit, while operating with an actual video source. The noise can be controlled, but you'll have to spend so much time getting the right board design to work with THAT particular chip, that you'll end up settling for what you have because most people won't notice the noise, and when used in a 'traditional' test environment, it'll have excellent S/N. And why are most of the "low noise" chips the noisiest? But with time and effort, you'll be able to get the right components to compliment the chip and circuitry, and when that's done you'll find that the chip you'll want to use does not have "low noise" in its specs. You'll also come to understand why the Hi End audio amp has the same specs as the economy amp...


Good luck on that line amp. But I would be very careful with the design. As you know, in analog, every stage can and usually does induce some level of distortion. Therefore, if not properly done it would do more harm than good, and could easily become the weakest link in your system. So a line amp, should be looked at like an audio amp -- you should want the one that performs the best.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Mike,


>as well that as long as it displays a reasonable square wave at the

>usable frequency, all will be well -- wrong!


No, of course, you are right. A video signal is much more complicated

than a simple square wave test pattern.


>Why does a $300.00 (economy) audio amplifier have the exact same

>specs as a $8000.00 (Hi End) audio amp, giving that the Hi End amp

>sounds so much better?


While that is a slightly unfair comparison, I have heard some amps

which are expensive in comparison to cheaper amps ($5000 vs $1000)

and I have to say the Highend didn't always sound better (same

speakers, room, etc). I didn't scope the outputs, tho  The real

question that everyone has to answer for themselves is the price

(300 vs. 8000 in your example) worth what you will be getting extra?

I mean take those $25000 turntables. Do they really sound better

than one for say $500? Even if so, are they still >worth
the "cheaper" one?


I do see what you are getting at. It takes time, resources (read

financial expenses) and manpower to get the last quench out of

something.


> They all have good spec's and would pass any known test that you

> could throw at them. the concern should go beyond the specs, and

> should be based on visual performance.


Yes, of course. However, here too, the question is does one really

need the last ounce of horsepower vs. the costs needed to get it?

If getting a 2dB better S/N ratio costs me 10x as much, I don't think

the gain balances the financial offset. Will I notice those 2 dB while

actually watching a normal movie? I don't think so.


I mean if I have to take a magifying lens to see the actual difference

on the screen, I personally don't think it's worth the effort. That was

what I meant when I said I watch my movies, but don't watch them

to see the tinyest of flaws. Test patterns are great tools and they

do tell you something about the total quality, but "I" don't watch

test patterns, I watch movies ;o))


Please don't get me wrong. I DO care about quality and when I

build something I try to do the best I can, but I have also learned

that one can't always be perfect and once an improvement really

starts costing $$$ vs. the actual improvment I am getting, I try to

keep my feet on the floor. One of the reasons simply being that I

just don't have "money to burn".


> circuit, and you'll have to see how well it behaves on several non

> standard (proprietary) tests. This takes time, because most of the chips

> out there are too noisy in an actual circuit, while operating with an actual

> video source.


Sure, you need to test the circuit in the actual operating enviroment,

because you can't predict every possible flaw or condition that you

might encounter.


>Good luck on that line amp. But I would be very careful with the design.


Thanks for the encouraging words. I'll do the best I can. and I'm NOT

trying to beat your design 


>As you know, in analog, every stage can and usually does induce some

>level of distortion. Therefore, if not properly done it would do more harm

> than good, and could easily become the weakest link in your system.


Yes, I understand that and will be doing both scope and visual

examinations of the results I get.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## JVanderwalker

Another thing in evaluating line drivers and high bandwidth op amps is how balanced are the inputs. Better the match between the inverting and non inverting input results in better common mode rejection and less noise. Also I have found the external component tolerance is critcal as well to maintain a true balanced configuration on the inputs........ Decoupling is critical as well. I designed a video amp 15 years ago that had residual noise that I just could not get rid of (low level ~ 3 IRE) Drove me nuts for days. The problem turned out to be a low level oscillation from a ceramic bypass cap that just could not perform at the gain bandwidth product of the op amp. Wound up using a mica with the ceramic. The amp is still in production today.

Jim


----------



## Halo1963

Hi

Mike and Chip

Are we going to see Mike's 9 component mod (not the MP-1 mod)


Mike said he would post it and heaps of members have asked but no reply!


Could one of you put us out of our misery and let us know if this is going to posted and where


Lightningman

Thanks for the post

Yes DIY for CRT specific mod RGBHV


(1)you raise the point of where to tap in and that Hitman's mod is not the best place

where do you recommend?

(2)power supply unit you appear to have something in mind

what should we use ?


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Halo,


> (1)you raise the point of where to tap in and that Hitman's mod is

> not the best place where do you recommend?


Hmm. I don't think I said that. That was Chip as far as remember.

I would put the taps as close as possible to the Sigma 8500,

which sort of depends on what other circuitry is behind the actual

IC.


>(2)power supply unit you appear to have something in mind

>what should we use ?


I wouldn't trust the Momi PSU to be noise free and all that

stable. What you are looking for is a stabilized powersupply

that has minimal electrical noise. This means low and high

frequency filtering become a necessity.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Halo1963_
*Hi

Mike and Chip


Are we going to see Mike's 9 component mod (not the MP-1 mod)


Mike said he would post it and heaps of members have asked but no reply!

*
Yes, I still plan do do that. It's just been very difficult getting back on track from the moves and medical stuff. Pretty much all is well on my end, however I'm still having to get things setup the way I like it, so in due time I hope to post the mod, but keep in mind that it's only for the component out.


"(2)power supply unit you appear to have something in mind

what should we use ?"


Not sure what power supply you'd want to use on your DIY, maybe I could help out if I explain the purpose for the mini switch mode power supply that is attached to the MP-1:


The power rails on a PC are very noisy. The noise does not come from the power supply in the PC, it comes from the main CPU and any other digital device that is switching at very high speeds that use the same power rails in the PC. This noise can and will effect the performance of an analog signal. And the higher the scan rate of the analog signal, the more that noise would effect the signal. The mini switch mode power supply on the MP-1 is used primarily as an isolation device. And it does an excellent job at isolating the MP-1's power from the PC's rails. Not sure what is going on inside a Momitsu power rails. But for DIY it may be best to use the power supply in the Momitsu, but I would recommend a very tight decoupling network. The foundation for high performance analog is first grounding, and second a clean high current power source -- these two are very important.


I'm a little confused on this DIY thing, why bother when you could simply purchase an Extron of Ebay for around $20.00, and could possibly improve on the analog section in it... but keep in mind what Jim Vanderwalker pointed out.


Jim,

we have to find a way to keep you quite, you seem to know too much .


----------



## stefuel

While I'm waiting for Mike to get caught up, I've been doing a little testing.

I bought a DVI/HD-15 adapter and a short breakout cable so I could run the Momitsu right at the projector. All the resolutions I tried on two projectors seemed to lack punch and looked soft. Last night I decided to take the Momitsu out to my home office where my theater rack setup is. In my rack is an Extron RGB 108 Plus. It takes the VGA signal from my Quadscan Elite HD and Sony SAT-HD200 and converts it to RGBHV via 5 BNC out. From there it goes out 50 feet to the projector via 5 matched high quality 75 ohm quad shield cables. This has worked very well for me as the Extron provides for some boost to the signal to make up for the long run. When I hooked up the Momitsu to the Extron, I was surprised to see that the resulting image was the best my NEC had ever shown me not counting HD. It must be that additional boost that makes it sing. However, there is an incompatability issue between the Momitsu and my Extron. I get a vertical red line on screen that moves dependent on resolution. 720P it's right at the edge. At 800X600 it's in the middle. You can move it some by changing the phase, but that's not right. It does it on both projectors (NEC 9PG Plus and Ampro 4000G). Long story short, the Momitsu needs the boost to make our projectors sing. Last night I watched the two movies that I think make or break a setup Shrek and Ice Age. On Shrek I watch the muffin man scene. Look at lord F's hat. Without boost you can't see the cloth weave in the red portion of the hat. With boost, you'd sware you could walk up to the screen and feel it. In Ice Age, just watch Scrat in the beginning. When I get my MP-1 and install it the way I think it should be done, I'll report back.


Chip


----------



## AVWERKS

MP


Have you done a comparison yet on the DVI/RGBhv verses your component/MP-1/transcoder combo?

I realise you've spent countless hours on R&D on both and I don't doubt the quality whatsoever and would buy it if I needed it, but isn,t all that extra signal processing done on the component side a minus when you can eliminate a transcoder altogether and just use the DVI/analog side? or in this case the DVI is not so clean?


What am I missing here?


David


----------



## Fraza

Chip,



I got the same result and surprise as you after I connected my Momitsu through my Extron 120Plus. I'm running a 20' high quality cable and the boost gave me PQ with lots of detail and sharpness. Before the MP1 came on the scene I ran the Extron with my HTPC and had good results. The Extron 120Plus introduces a little noise into the picture, especially when you set the peak to 100%, but after upgrading my firmware and doing all the other Momitsu upgrade to include the Cap mod, I noticed that the picture was still sharp without 50% or 100% peaking which the 120p offers so the noise is a very small issue. Now I've owned a Marque 8500, Barco 800 and now a Ampro 3600 and I ran a HTPC with all the bells and whistles. I'm tell all CRT owner who are looking for a simpler solution other than an HTPC, the Momitsu is no joke. Lets support this company and give them feed back and see how far they will go with their products in the future. Chip, I plan to send the company a email asking them to consider adding gamma control to their future line. If you have the time do the same and maybe we'll start something. A good picture shouldn't cost thousand and thousand of dollars every time a new gadget hits the street.


Andre

Pensacola HT Club (Robert Wood, KennyG and ME)


----------



## stefuel

I can't wait to finish this thing up. I know in my heart and head that it's the right thing to do and the best turn-key solution for new CRT'ers. Heck, based on what I saw last night, it will not just be for newbees. Now if we can convince Art to try it on his G-90 stack and report on it...

That's it, a really souped up Momitsu with two MP-1's and dual RGBHV outputs for a stack installation. I'm a sick puppy ain't I?


Chip


----------



## garyfritz

 Sounds great, Chip. Any idea what the mods would cost for us mere mortals with only one PJ?


I'm still torn whether the Momo is the right answer for me now, given my limited budget. (I've already gone a bit over budget on PJ, sound, and room.) I know it's got all kinds of upgrade possibilities, but the one thing holding me back is the signal from my other sources. I'm gonna need a doubler/scaler/something(?) to make the cable & other sources watchable on a big screen.


Question: what if I said "let's wait to see what Momo comes out with in another year or two" and bought myself a cheapo $100 progressive DVD player, and popped another $150-200 for a DVDO or Extron to scale up the picture from ALL sources? Is that cheap signal source, run through analog for deinterlacing, going to provide a significantly worse picture than the custom-resolution output of the Momo? (I suspect so, but I wanted to ask...)


Or should I just bite the bullet, get the Momo for best-possible DVD picture for the buck, and not plan to watch other sources until I can afford a decent scaler/deinterlacer? What IS a good model for, say, less than $200?


Thanks!

Gary


----------



## Don Rombach

Gary,


My solution to your dilemma is to use the momitsu for dvd playback, a Samsung t160 DTV HDTV sat receiver, and a good vga switch. If you can catch a deal on the sat receiver as a new customer (be sure it is a Samsung--has RGBHV). This solves dvd, satellite HDTV, OTA HDTV, and the sat receiver scales 480i to 480p,1080i, or 720p


----------



## garyfritz

Hm. That Samsung runs $500-600 on its own. Would take some serious catching to get much of a deal on that. And it requires getting HD Satellite, which I'm not commited to yet. I looked on the Voom, Dish Network, and DirecTV sites and didn't see any mention of the Samsung receiver.


Other than that it sounds lovely.  Can you run VHS tapes through the Samsung for scaling too??


----------



## igroucho

Google for Samsung TS160 and cheapest and you get several offers for


----------



## bblue

Voom uses a Motorola 500 receiver which is exclusive to them, Dishnet have their own receivers as well. The t160 is a DirecTV + OTA version of the Samsung and does not include a firewire interface. The t165 is OTA only and does include the fireware interface.


Unfortunately, the Samsung RGBHV output isn't all that good. It does some really odd things with low black level and is generally noisy but it would be one of the few solutions for RGBHV and 1080i to use in conjunction with the Momo. The only other one that comes to mind would be the Dishnet 6000 receiver with the OTA module. It does RGBHV and 1080i, but I'm not sure if it's still available. The newer Dishnet receivers are component output, no RGB.


--Bill


----------



## Halo1963

Mike thanks for the reply


We know you have a lot happening, your time here is appreciated


For some this is a hobby and I for one don’t have a big budget

We get enjoyment from doing these mods ourselves and discussing them on the forum every one has different ideas and tries different things, the more input the better


You have got me thinking on another option

You say your 9-component mod will only improve component


What sort of result do you think we would get by doing your mod

And then convert it to RGB as per your Quote
*I'll show you how to convert component to RGB with very little loss*


Is that RGBHV


Thanks


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Halo1963_
*Mike thanks for the reply


We know you have a lot happening, your time here is appreciated


For some this is a hobby and I for one don't have a big budget

We get enjoyment from doing these mods ourselves and discussing them on the forum every one has different ideas and tries different things, the more input the better


You have got me thinking on another option

You say your 9-component mod will only improve component


What sort of result do you think we would get by doing your mod

And then convert it to RGB as per your Quote

I'll show you how to convert component to RGB with very little loss


Is that RGBHV


Thanks*
Yeah, I feel ya here. I wish I could present a clearer solution on this. I can also understand how it can be somewhat confusion when the response on the thread is a little too technical, and seems to go right over your head. This sometimes happen to me as well, I'm not an engineer, so I don't know how much of it has merit. However, I've been around long enough to have learned how to eat fish (don't chew and swallow the bones).


Converting component to RGB with very little loss, is a somewhat complicated thing-- therefore it's not inexpensive. I was refering to my transcoder (MP-5). It's the transcoder that I designed and built myself. And the thing that makes it what it is, has more to do with the design. I'll try to not be too technical, while trying to explain why I say what I say about it:


- It has three stages of analog circuitry in the component to RGB conversion. Each stage should or would degrade the signal to some degree. This process can somewhat be minimized by using certain parts and design. For instance, the MP-5 has three stages. In these three stages there are NO common op amps IC's. Well, there is three very high bandwidth voltage feedback op amps, but no one would use them, because they are known to not perform as well as current feedback op amps (but there's a reason for their use). There are other op amps in the design, but they are in no way basic or common design chips (they are not your general purpose high bandwidth chips). I could not get the basic/common chips to do what I wanted. So I had to use special purpose chips, that are mostly used in special applications, and there are three different verisons of special chips. Nothing that would probably be found in consumer applications.


I say all this to say that my solution for converting component to RGB may not be economical.


- Though it might be easier go go direct RGBHV from a sat box, the component out on a SAT box is the best output (my opinion only). The conversion of YUV (digital component) to Y, Pr, Pb (analog component) is much easier to properly convert than YUV to analog RGBHV. YUV to Y, Pr, PB is very easy to convert, as it maintains the true essance of the component signal, with the only thing in question being the DAC. On the other hand, YUV to RGBHV requires a lot more conversion. First the signal is converted from YUV to Y, Pr, Pb - then it's converted (transcoded) to RGBHV. So we have a two step process done inside the sat box with RGBHV, while only a one step process with Y, Pr, Pb analog. The problem for me here is that component HDTV to RGBHV conersion is a very tricky process. With the most important issues being sync strip, blanking and signal degradation from conversion. And in every case, there should be some loss from conversion, especially with analog, and this is not good for HDTV (loss of DEFINITION)


I just don't trust the process in the mpeg chip, it's hard for me to accept that the manufactures of these inexpensive DAC's and converters on the DAC had me in mind when they designed these chips. I simply prefer to do what I want with the one step process, and with the MP-5, it can be calibrated to any component signal... so that's why I've only modified the component out on the Momitsu.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Mike, Jim, all


> Not sure what is going on inside a Momitsu power rails. But for DIY it

> may be best to use the power supply in the Momitsu, but I would

> recommend a very tight decoupling network.


I have found the Momi PSU to be highly unstable. It's an el cheapo

consumer SMPSU and the voltage swings around quite a bit when

loaded / unloaded (drive access, etc). There is also some noise

on the lines. This may be come from the mains side since the

PSU uses a capactive voltage divider from L-N with the center tap

on the chassis and therefore on the minus pole of the secondary

side. Since I am building a dedicated switcher for all my sources

using the Momi PSU wouldn't be an option for me anyway.



> I'm a little confused on this DIY thing, why bother when you could

> simply purchase an Extron of Ebay for around $20.00


Three reasons (for me )


- I have never been able to get hold of Extron (here) for cheap

let alone for 20 bucks.


- My switcher must be able to:


* Multifeed two CVBS (1 Input to 2 output) displays

* Multifeed two Y/C (1 Input to 2 output) displays

* Sync split a RGBs into RGBHV on two inputs

* Switch three RGBHV inputs to one RGBHV output

* Switch four RGBHV inputs to another RGBHV output

* drive 2 longer video line sets (RGBHV)

* would like to be able to control gamma for each RGBHV input

* Switch between 2 PCs (normal windoz PC and a Linux PC based video recorder) to my monitor

* do all of the above via a remote so that I don't have to get my lazy a** off the bed 


I haven't seen a switcher that has the above capabilities w/o a

$$ price tag


- DIY is more fun than "just buying"



> Another thing in evaluating line drivers and high bandwidth op amps is

> how balanced are the inputs. Better the match between the inverting

> and non inverting input results in better common mode rejection and

> less noise.


Good point Jim. I was pretty amazed how a simple grounded square

(trace) surrounding the input pin really lowered the noise on the

output. There are of course further considerations in designing the

PCB (like not running the input and output pins parallel for any

length of trace, etc)


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## JVanderwalker

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*>


- My switcher must be able to:


* Multifeed two CVBS (1 Input to 2 output) displays

* Multifeed two Y/C (1 Input to 2 output) displays

* Sync split a RGBs into RGBHV on two inputs

* Switch three RGBHV inputs to one RGBHV output

* Switch four RGBHV inputs to another RGBHV output

* drive 2 longer video line sets (RGBHV)

* would like to be able to control gamma for each RGBHV input

* Switch between 2 PCs (normal windoz PC and a Linux PC based video recorder) to my monitor

* do all of the above via a remote so that I don't have to get my lazy a** off the bed 


I haven't seen a switcher that has the above capabilities w/o a

$$ price tag


-*
I think you should rename your switcher to "switcher/signal processor"

Jim


----------



## Jim McDougall

Mike


When are the rest of us going to get to buy the MP-5?


Waiting patiently as possible!


----------



## plissken99

Also Mike. I sent my Mp-1 9500 and new 9800 overnight to you to transfer the mod over(9500 is damaged). Only today the package came back unclaimed. Please email me as to what happened.


Dusty


Sorry to ask in the boards, but my emails have gone unanswered.


----------



## Joshua Snyder

Just got my Momitsu... and just a quick question.


I was under the impression (or perhaps just hopping) that the 880 would still output 480i on the video/s-video, even when upscaling the feed to 1080i or 720p


as it is. it means that ALL DVD content must be viewed on the Projector, But in my installation the projector is often put away (screen up, powered off) for regular SD TV viewing.


I would LOVE it if someone could come up with a solution to ether enable SD and HD at the same time, OR disable all the Video modes that I DON't use, so that the video mode button on the remote would switch between the 2 that I have setup. I Figure that pushing a button with no feedback whatsoever, repeatedly, outputting resolutions that the PJ finds so unpleasant that it can stop responding to commands of it's own for up to 5 minutes, This is not so good! But I could train the people around the house to hit ONE button ONCE to change the display from HD to SD.


Josh


----------



## Fredrik

Sorry but the other thread seem to have died so I post my questions in this thread as well.

If you don't have answers to all my questions please feel free to answer the ones you can....thanks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The momitsu threads has turned up to be very interesting.


I'm a newbie when it comes to the momitsu so please bear with me but I got some questions.

Some I've seen the answers to but need them confirmed...thanks.


1.Is the Momitsu region free, macrovision free ?

2.Is it possible to add custom resolutions, e.g. 864p ?

3.Is it possible to add custom refresh rates ?

4.Does the Momitsu provide negative sync if needed ?

5.Is it stable ?

6.Does it have more Jitter or digital audio problems then a HTPC sound card ?

In other words, audio problems with DVD playback.

7.Since I see many CRT users use it I suspect it doesn't force HDCP ?

8.How do one handle movies that use overscan ? Is it possible like in zoomplayer to zoom in with very small steps or is it even a problem ?

9.Any lipsync or stutter problem other then framerate stutters ?

10.Anything else that can throw me off ?


Thanks for you answers.


----------



## plissken99

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*You sent one email on this matter, and it was dated for 10:54AM today. So what other emails did you send that was not returned, considering that you just got your card back today?


And let me once again remind you of what I had initially informed you of back in March, and that is that I've been very busy. I have no idea why your card was returned, so I'm totally unaware of your situation.


At present I have over 110 emails, and at times it takes me days to read them all. So if you'd want to contact me, try to remember that I'm still very busy, and that I'm also working from my shop (the PC is at my house), and that it may take some time to get a response.


For now, I'm working on getting caught up with my present customers, so nothing will happen until I've finished that task.*
It's ok now. I sent 2 or 3 emails in the couple of weeks since I sent the card asking if you'd recieved it yet. It's ok though, I know you've been through a lot lately. I'm sending the card out tomorrow again.


Thanks,

Dusty


----------



## HV-MAN

Stefuel


How's the mod going any thing to report?


----------



## Fredrik

Is there no one that can answer some of the questions above ?


I would ask in the dvd-player forum if it weren't for the CRT related questions.


----------



## HV-MAN

Quote:

_Originally posted by Fredrik_
*

1.Is the Momitsu region free, macrovision free ?

2.Is it possible to add custom resolutions, e.g. 864p ?

3.Is it possible to add custom refresh rates ?

4.Does the Momitsu provide negative sync if needed ?

5.Is it stable ?

6.Does it have more Jitter or digital audio problems then a HTPC sound card ?

In other words, audio problems with DVD playback.

7.Since I see many CRT users use it I suspect it doesn't force HDCP ?

8.How do one handle movies that use overscan ? Is it possible like in zoomplayer to zoom in with very small steps or is it even a problem ?

9.Any lipsync or stutter problem other then framerate stutters ?

10.Anything else that can throw me off ?


Thanks for you answers.*
I'll take a shot for you



1. Yes this is selectable

2. Yes but I'm not sure of 864p but you can specify custom res, please refer to
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=momitsu 


and others in the DVD forum


3. ?

4. ?

5. seems to be but a bug in the latest firm wear has been reported
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=396286 


6. ? Although its not the best its ok

7. ?

8. ?

9. Not that I've hit yet Ive only had my player for 2days, not to say won' do it though

10.


I think it's the best bang for $$ available ATM.


Hope I've been some help

Maybe someone thats had one for some time can answer the rest for you.


----------



## stefuel

Quote:

_Originally posted by HV-MAN_
*Stefuel


How's the mod going any thing to report?*
The female BNC's are installed. I made a template that slips over the top edge so that the placement of the holes can be re-created without measuring. The measurments are 7/8" spacing, 3/4" down with the second BNC from the right centered between the two upward pointing triangles. The top cover needs to be relieved towards the center to give it a factory look. That;s all I've done as the MP-1 has not arrived yet. When it does, I will dig into it's installation. I'm going to do it in stages, with the MP-1 being next. When I'm satisfied that's done to it's best, I'll work more on the second input switching.


Chip


----------



## Fredrik

Thanks HV-MAN,


Yep, any answers appreciated.


----------



## Briands

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*The female BNC's are installed. I made a template that slips over the top edge so that the placement of the holes can be re-created without measuring. The measurments are 7/8" spacing, 3/4" down with the second BNC from the right centered between the two upward pointing triangles. The top cover needs to be relieved towards the center to give it a factory look. That;s all I've done as the MP-1 has not arrived yet. When it does, I will dig into it's installation. I'm going to do it in stages, with the MP-1 being next. When I'm satisfied that's done to it's best, I'll work more on the second input switching.


Chip*
Chip,


Any recomendation on the female BNC's? There seem to be a bunch out there and the prices range from $10.00. I know I'm looking for 75ohm. Should they be isolated or not? I've looked at Newark, but there are TOO MANY CHOICES


----------



## stefuel

Note: I'm not sure if it's a problem with the hardware or if it's a problem with the latest firmware but the Momitsu does not shut off. It says it's off but I think it just goes into standby. There is always output at the optical connector and there must be a constant sync signal cause my scaler which auto detects a signal (on sync) for auto switching won't switch away from the Momitsu to the next chosen source unless I unplug the Momitsu.


Chip


----------



## Belcherwm

I have the same issue. I've plugged my Momitsu into my secondary receiver that I turn off to kill the power to the Momitsu so that my auto switching works.


----------



## JVanderwalker

I think it is in the latest firmware. Mine does that too.

Jim


Chip,

I PM'd you.

Jim


----------



## Budget Pete

Lightningman, have to agree with you on DIY reasons, extrons don't go cheap in Australia either and DIY is just plain fun.


Looking at the MP1 fitted in the thread, I would also be surprised if it made a lot of difference on a short cable run. Part of the MP1 'feature' is bypassing the crappy filters on the VGA card, which the momitsu mod as displayed is obviously not doing.

It would be interesting to try it with just adding BNCs to one unit and an MP-1 to the other and comparing the difference.


Over long cable - who knows.


----------



## stefuel

Great news, Extremephono is now a AVS forum member and is posting in the DVD forum area answering questions relating to the Momitsu players current and future.


Chip


PS Damn, I guess the cat's outa the bag. I think it's safe to say that I've sufficiently voided the warrentee on my player. Yup yup...


----------



## stefuel

I've got to get a bigger magnifying glass. I had some time today to work on the Momitsu so I opened it up so that I can decide on the best place to connect the MP-1. I had my reading glasses on and my bench mounted lighted magnifying glass. I have no problem with through hole pcb's but this smt stuff gives me a headache. The traces look like hair lines. I can read Hi way signs from a quarter mile away but anything within arms reach is all a blur.


Chip


----------



## dokworm

Try modifying xboxes. The momitsu tracks look like 4 lane highways compared to the xbox solder points


----------



## stefuel

OK, here's the skinney,

The Momitsu MP-1 mod is complete. Before I start, I probably shouldn't report this yet as my NEC is suffering from a bad STK chip on the focus board. It's ordered but has not arrived yet. As a result, I'm observing the finished product on less than perfect diplay. I can however say that it looks much better than without the mod. I tested the Momitsu three way's. The original test was un-modded with a DVI-I/VGA adapter and a six foot VGA/RGBHV breakout cable, direct to the projector. The picture was very soft and lacked punch. I found this on all available resolutions. The second test was to bring the Un-modded Momitsu out to my office, where my rack system is located and run the player through my Extron RGB 108 Plus out 50 feet to the projector through my DIY quad shield RGBHV cables. The Extron is putting out very close to one full volt. The picture was stunning but, there was a small amount of noise and a compatability problem with the Extron that I could not resolve. It did however bring me to the conclusion that what was needed was some additional boost to make the Momitsu sing with CRT projectors. The third test was with the MP-1 installed with a six foot BNC/BNC cable direct to the projector. The image was much better than the first test. A very clean image that was much sharper than the first test but not as sharp as the second test. This was done with MP-1 jumpers off and on. The best results I got was with the jumpers on. I do not have a scope but I would bet that the analog RGB outs on the stock Momitsu are less than .7 volts and that's why it looked so good at the Extrons elevated gain. I have a 4th test planned that will happen when some more equipment shows up. I ordered a NEC ISS 6010 switcher that will go between the Momitsu/MP-1 and the projector. A small amount of gain can be dialed in with this as well. If I can match the output of the Extron without the noise and compatability problems, it will be perfect. For those of you who have your Momitsu's hooked up with just an adapter through the DVI-I connector and are happy, you ain't seen nuthin yet. The MP-1 makes a big improvement over the stock unit.


Chip


----------



## Halo1963

Chip sounds promising

could you show us where you connected to the Momitsu

Thanks


----------



## Clarence

Hi Chip-


And some more info on your "compatability problem with the Extron that I could not resolve"


Has anybody scoped the V p-p from the Momitsu?


Thanks,

Clarence


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Chip,


Please DO check the voltage at the Momi AND at the PJ with

a scope. Remember anytime you increase the voltage (as

long as you are not totally overdoing it), it will increase the

subjective image quality. It's just like turning up the contrast

directly at the PJ. There is no difference in beam current. So

don't kid yourself in thinking wow, I can turn down the

contrast way down and save my tubes if you are boosting

the input voltage. Lowering contrast and raising input

voltage relates to the same beam current.


It would also be interesting to see what the internal

contols (brightness, contrast & saturation) of the Momi

do with the signal output. Esp. interesting would be

to see if they increase the background noise on the

video line.


I sure hope Momitsu will add a gamma correction to

one of their next firmware releases


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## garyfritz

So Chip, you're saying the unmodded Momo, using the DVI-I jack to VGA/5BNC, was soft and lacked punch?? I thought the picture was supposed to be excellent out of the DVI. I was planning on a direct DVI -> 5BNC -> 5 RG6/U for the run to the PJ, thinking the coax would probably be better than the VGA cable. I only have about a 15' run.


On the third test, with BNC/BNC (coax?) to the PJ, you tested with the MP-1 jumpers off & on. When off, does that mean the MP-1 was not engaged? So the jumper-off test was basically an unmodded Momo? On this one did you hook the BNC cables to the Momo component out instead of the DVI breakout?


----------



## misohorny

Stefuel,

What is your association, if any, with Mike Parker and the MP-1?


----------



## stefuel

Halo1963,

As it was reported to work and work well, for now,I just used the same points as Hitman22. I have no digital camera at this time.


Marcorsycom.

The projector was displaying soft rgb bands on the screen which changed with resolutions.


Lightingman,

My projector was ISF'd by a tech with a scope with the Extron in place. I touched nothing in the video chain, adjustment wise. I just unplugged my scaler and plugged in the Momitsu.


Garyfritz,

Don't get me wrong, the unmodded Momitsu does a great job on it's own. I just want to make it better. However, on it's own I don't think it does the best 8 inch or 9 inch projectors justice, at least in a videophile sense.

With the jumpers off you still get the advantage of a full 75ohm signal path direct from the player. With jumpers on you get a little boost. The third test was with the newly installed RGBHV BNC's on the back. None of the factory connections.


Misohorny,

No association with Mike Parker or Wisdom Technologies other than being forum friends since I joined in 2001. As far as the MP-1 goes, Mike was stuck on a non technical issue with it's installation. I made a suggestion to solve the problem and it worked.


I wish my projector was at 100% so I could have more to report. I would be happy to bring this to another forum members house if one was close enough and he/she had a very high end projector and would like to comment on it. I may box it up and send it to Mike for further testing perhaps on one of his modded marquee's.


Chip


----------



## fs123

Going off topic for a second...


Chip where did you order the stk chip from? I need to replace my fdrive as well and i can never get the forum's search to work right to find where to get them from.


----------



## mp20748

Chip,

I have a Momitsu that I'll eventually attach a mod to. I plan to post a picture of it on my website showing the component (Y, Pr, Pb) mod as well as my method (may not be the best) of attaching the mod.


Starting next month, the MP-1, MP-1.3's will be distributed by someone other than myself (will be listed on my website later). I will no longer be attaching mods (MP-1) to anything from then on. Not sure if they would have any interest in doing a DIY with the mod, but it's not something that I'll be doing. I will continue to be involved in having the mods manufactured and the source for them in quantity, but completely out of the modding phase. We'll also introduce another version of the MP-1 sometime later on the site as well.


When I get around to posting the modified Momitsu, I'll also post the signal levels and such.


----------



## stefuel

One of my customers owns a TV repair shop. They order them for me at cost.


Chip


----------



## Clarence

I bought the LG LST-3510A from Circuit City today. It's got the same 480p/720p/1080i DVD scaling like the Momitsu, but in addition to DVI, it also has HD15 VGA out; plus it has an OTA HDTV tuner (they also make a scaling DVD STB without the HDTV OTA receiver).


It's been getting good review in the DVD player forum.


But I'd be interested in knowing if Mike or anyone has looked at this video chain. How does it compare to the Momitsu? Is it a good candidate for mod?


I like it because it's from CC, hence it's returnable in 30 days if I don't like the output.


MP, do you think you'd be available for a side by side comparison one weekend soon? With the unmodded Momitsu (Bill has one too), your mod, plus the LG?


-Clarence

_*EDIT:*_ Oops... I just plugged it in and popped in a DVD (Pirates of the Caribbean)...
Quote:

This disk is not available using RGB monitor for copy protection. You may be able to view this disc using the component (YPbPr) connector.
Also, I noticed the DVI connector is only DVI-D, it doesn't have the DVI-I/DVI-A analog pins.


Bummer.


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*


MP, do you think you'd be available for a side by side comparison one weekend soon? With the unmodded Momitsu (Bill has one too), your mod, plus the LG?


-Clarence*
Yeah, I think we can do this and if not, I could get the Momitsu to you.


----------



## Brian Hampton

"It's got the same 480p/720p/1080i DVD scaling like the Momitsu, ..."


It may scale to those resolutions but that doesn't mean it has the "same" scaling. Maybe it does, I don't really know. It sounds interesting, I'm going to look it up.


-Brian


----------



## stefuel

I guess the next project will be to figure out how to stuff a MP-5 into the next generation V880 coming out in the third quarter of this year. This is supposed to have an all new main board, OOOOPs I've spilled the beans.

Also a new more sturdy remote will be coming soon. I better shut up before I get into trouble. What they would not tell me is if it will still support DVI-I. I did get the impression that the new main board is interchangable with the older V880's.

Mike, I'll send you mine if your pressed for time.


Chip


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Chip,


> This is supposed to have an all new main board


Any news on what decoder it will be sponsering?


>Also a new more sturdy remote will be coming soon.


Hmm, I've seen a pic of that one. Not sure if it will

be better (the buttons are spring metal covered

with plastic): I think I'll stick to my Pronto ;o))


>it will still support DVI-I.


It would suck if it didn't.


> I did get the impression that the new main board is

> interchangable with the older V880's.


The new version (N) would require some cutting of the

chassis since it has more connectors. As to interchangeable

I'll believe that since the PCB actually is almost all of the

player ;o)) As long as it will support the LCD display up

front it shoudl work. The REAL question is will Momitsu

offer the boards w/o the rest of the player ;o))


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*

Mike, I'll send you mine if your pressed for time.


Chip*
That would be great, but first let me take a look at the analog out on the one I have here. I have my four channel scope at home, it never made it to the shop. I also have the Momitsu here, so I'll take a look at the signal tonight. I'm curious as to the level of the analog signal coming off the DAC, I want to confirm that it is actually 700mv. I have AVIA here, but AVIA pro is at the shop. Still I'm confident I'll get a good measurement.


I know that there's both a brightness and contrast control on the Momitsu. The problem with both are that they function in very large incraments, therefore it'll be somewhat difficult to get a precise peak to peak reading from the DAC's output. If the signal level is not accurate from the DAC, we may have to compensate for the difference on the MP-1.


So If the gain from the DAC is too low, we'll aim for an accurate 700mv out at the BNC's of the MP-1. My goal is to get a precise 700mv on the BNC's of the MP-1, and I'll want that with the jumpers off.


The reason for the slight boost on the MP-1 rather than a higher boost is that it's designed for best quality cables only. And best quality cables connected to a clean high current buffer, should not need a higher output level. So we'll look at the signal from the Momitsu, and from there, we may have to modify an MP-1 specifically for the Momitsu.


I'll get out the scope...


----------



## mp20748

... I don't have the remote to the Momitsu, so it must be still at the shop..


Anyway I got the scope out, and I did get to spend some time with it before being ushered to bed. Very interesting little device (Momitsu). I must say, for what it cost, it's well worth the money. The section of it that I found to get good marks is that little processor board. On the other hand, the individual that either spec'd or designed the power supply, would surely loose his/her job if the random drug tester ever picks their number.


The 5 volt rails are fine, but the +/- 12 volt supply is very unstable. This would be fine, if it was a passive supply, but a high enough current switching supply should not have this problem. Because of the slight fluctuations of the +/- 12 volt supply, it introduces some noise into the 5 volt supply. Plus both +/- 12 and 5 volts are being feed to the processor board.


One thing I'm sure of, and that is that whoever designed that processor board, had no association with whoever recommended that power supply for the unit. The relationship between the power supply and the DVD rom was a bad choice, mainly because when operating together, they even creates more noise... Y'all know I hate noise.


The good news is, that processor board is so well designed, it zaps most of the noise right on its board -- cool, yes real cool. They did an excellent job with mini ferrites and real capacitance decoupling.


Overall, it's well worth the money, and it works pretty well, so for the money it's not worth making any changes to the power supply for tighter voltages.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Mike,


> hand, the individual that either spec'd or designed the power supply,

> would surely loose his/her job if the random drug tester ever picks

> their number.


ROFL!


>The 5 volt rails are fine, but the +/- 12 volt supply is very unstable.


Yes, those are the same findings I had on my Momi. You may

want to try the cap mod (i.e. replace the 47ÂµF with a 100ÂµF unit

in the switcher PSU). All of the other mods (with maybe the

exception of the loader mod for some) seem to be voodoo mods,

which won't really help.


>One thing I'm sure of, and that is that whoever designed that

> processor board, had no association with whoever recommended

> that power supply for the unit.


No, that's true. The board is one of two Sigma Design

Development Kits which any DVD player manufacturer can

buy. All the DVD player manufacturers do is add the PSU,

the ROM, the Keypad, the LCD display and the chassis.

Whether you are looking into a Momitsu or a Yamakawa or

other clone the basic "intellegence" is the same. Even the

different firmwares only contains minor changes (like menus

or background pictures, etc)


> The good news is, that processor board is so well designed,


That is good news, but


> it's not worth making any changes to the power supply for

> tighter voltages.


The cap mod isn't going to cost more than 1-2 bucks and it helps

solve other problems, too. If the DVD-ROM needs to re-read a

certain section on the disk (because of a dirty disk e.g.) this can

lead to multiple hickups in the movie as the 12V line dips down

too far (increased load on the PSU due to the drive's multiple

reads) meaning the ROM can't read and process the information

correctly.


> I'm curious as to the level of the analog signal coming off the

> DAC, I want to confirm that it is actually 700mv.


Yes, please post some scope pictures. I wish I had more time

to dabble with the Momitsu. What I have noticed is that the

picture becomes a bit soft on 720p and 1080i (RGBHV out). It

might be interesting to see what happens to the signal (and

level) when we switch from 480p to 720p or 1080i.


> I know that there's both a brightness and contrast control

> on the Momitsu. The problem with both are that they function

> in very large incraments,


Momitsu has been asked by several AVS members to make

the gradient smaller in the next firmware. So far there has

been no response (that I know of). What I don't know if this

is even possible since it might well be a hardware limitation

(resolution of the chip's adjustment possibilities) Still it would

be interesting to see scope pictures of the changes from one

bar to the next (and if it is linear).


I WISH there was more info on the Sigma 8500 out there. The

pdf on SigmaDesign's website is useless to say the least.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Joshua Snyder

> Momitsu has been asked by several AVS members to make

> the gradient smaller in the next firmware


Is there a forum where suggestions can be made?


One of the suggestions that I would make is to have pictures (.jpeg) rendered to the final frame-buffer, not the 480i buffer and then upscaled.


I have test-patterns and other things burned to a cd, and while I can load my 1080p alignment grid... because of the low resolution rendering, it's useless!


Josh


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Josh,


>Is there a forum where suggestions can be made?


Check the DVD player section of AVS. There is a thread

called suggestions for future firmwares (or similar title)

Sorry, I don't have the direct link. I believe one of the

Momi guys (Fred) was reading that section. You can

also contact them at:


Sales: [email protected] 

Tech Support: [email protected] 


The new website is: http://w*w*w.momitsu.com/ 


P.S: I hope it's okay that I posted these links. If not

let me know and I'll remove them.


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## mp20748

Ok, I've changed the cap. I've even installed a MP-1.


With the contrast at the default setting, the Momitsu puts out the correct signal level on RGB out. The brightness setting at default is questionable.


The unit is performing extremely well, with only the power supply being my only issue. It's not just the problem with the fluctuations on the +/- 12 line, but it's the problems that are created because of these fluctuations.


Using AVIA Pro, I'm able to notice slight flashing as the power fluctuates. And that's not all. The power supply seems to almost transmit an interferance. Anyway, I'll take a look at the power supply at a later date to see if it can be cleaned up. But from my initial evaluation, it should not be used with a video circuit.


I'll come back to this later, but it's very important that a switching power supply be as noiseless as possible for best resolution performance.


This DVD player still amazes me, and for the buck, it's a super deal. I only wish that there was a power supply upgrade option.


Ok, no comment on the performance with the MP-1, I'm leaving out on my way to Clarence's. We'll get Clarences opinion on the Momitsu/MP-1 later today.


----------



## stefuel

Mike,

I noticed the brightness problem also. If you change resolutions you will see large changes in brightness from one resolution to another. I'm not sure if this is part of the latest firmware bug. 720P seems to be the one with the lowest default brightness setting. Just so we are on a level playing field, which version of firmware are you running? Where did you decide to connect the MP-1 in your player? Thanks,


Chip


----------



## Clarence

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_

Ok, I've changed the cap. I've even installed a MP-1.

...

The unit is performing extremely well, with only the power supply being my only issue.

...

This DVD player still amazes me, and for the buck, it's a super deal. I only wish that there was a power supply upgrade option.

...

Ok, no comment on the performance with the MP-1, I'm leaving out on my way to Clarence's. We'll get Clarences opinion on the Momitsu/MP-1 later today.
WOW!


I just got treated to a quadruple whammy of incredible eye candy on my own screen.


First of all, Mike is the nicest guy. He's trying to relax on the weekends for his health, so I hope I didn't ask too many questions in my excitement and enthusiasm after seeing the results of his work...


He popped in one of his modded VIMs. Whoa. In addition to making the image look incredibly clean at my usual level, we could raise the contrast to any level without blooming - digital brights as bright as I wanted to crank the tubes. It was just beautiful.


I was almost embarrassed to show my projector and screen to Mike, but I enjoy my setup and I'm always open and seeking advice for improvement. Mike did some quick black level tweaks and showed me how to how to adjust stig on my Green. I've read through that several times before, but I learned more in 5 minutes watching Mike. For months I thought my problem was fine focus, but it was my vert G stig.


We watched OTA HD through his VIM. Nice! And he kept teasing me by watching and saying... oh, the neck board would help you there, too.


But enough general rambling; let's get back on topic...


I saw Bill's unmodded Momitsu at my Meet & Geek last week, and was impressed, but when Mike plugged his in... Wow. I loved having the 5BNC connectors too. That allowed me to use my heavier 5 Canare BNCs, instead of the DVI-I -> HD15 VGA -> 5BNC with my usual cheap, thin gauge BNCs. We watched DVE and 5th Element. I've never seen either look so good. I'm taking my LG LST-3510A back to CC (it only plays DVD-Rs through the HD15 RGB out) and I'm ordering the Momitsu. I'm keeping a close eye on these mods, too.


I'm not sure what Mike's large scale plans are with Momitsu mods. It sounds like he's got his capable hands full with his standard MP1 and MP5 transcoder.


It's hard for me to describe each incremental improvement everytime Mike improved each step in my video chain. But I will never be skeptical of anyone's flowery words and praise about MP mods.


I want it all. I'm going to have a hard time prioritizing which I want most. If you ever have an opportunity to see his work and the results, do it.


I can't thank Mike enough for showing me this stuff on my own system. I've become intimately familiar with how my setup looks and it was amazing to watch flaws fade away.


I also feel prouder than ever about my mega-screen after Mike let a few compliments slip. Maybe he was just being cautiously polite, but he seemed pleasantly suprised that my setup was more than just a foolish novelty.


(Mike's missing his own HT due to his temporary relocation)... If you ever want to show up with just a DVD and go a few hours with no tweaking, just let me know. You're always invited.


-Clarence


----------



## stefuel

So Clarence, what was the first thing you noticed about the modded Momitsu verses the un-modded one? Spill the beans. Mike said we would have to here it from you. I do have special interest in your answer.

We need feedback baby.


Chip


----------



## kkanizar

If I were to pick up a Momitsu, who could I get to mod it with a MP-1 and what would the cost be? Didn't know Mike Parker lived so close to NOVA, I would have had him over for a beer on social conversation. BTW guys, I'm new on the board, in the process of setting up my HT in my basement and have a 500 hour XG110. I've been following all the threads here and I think the knowledge passed around on here has been most beneficial for me and I really appreciate the openess by which everyone shares their personal knowledge.



Kevin Kanizar

Woodbridge, VA.


----------



## Clarence

Chip-


The toughest part would be separating what was due to the MP improvements on the VIM and what was due to the MP improvements on the VIM.


Mike mentioned a longer loaner, so I'll hopefully A/B his Momitsu with my regular VIM and with MP's VIM. I might even drag Bill back over here with his unmodded Momitsu and have a second set of eyes on a A/B and C/D test.


I've got the same scenes that I look for in DVE and 5th Element: the deep 3D lanes of city space traffic, the textures on the wall with the dark shadows next to Leeloo's face, the dark tunnel scenes, the tuxedos.


I know that Bill's Momitsu by itself last week was impressive. The MP-VIM today with sources other than Momitsu was impressive. But MP/VIM + Momitsu+MP1 together: yep... wow.


Hi Kevin- Welcome to the forum. We'll have to add your HT to a pending list of VA/MD/DC Meet and Geek locations.


-Clarence


----------



## garyfritz

Mike, you said the power supply in the Momo is really bad. How hard would it be to rip out the junk PS and drop in a new one? Not having seen the inside of one yet I'm only guessing, but I gotta think it's pretty easy to swap out the PS.


Sounds like the MP mods to the Momo are well worth it. Haven't ordered my Momo yet but I'll have to keep that upgrade in mind...


----------



## Belcherwm

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*Chip-



Mike mentioned a longer loaner, so I'll hopefully A/B his Momitsu with my regular VIM and with MP's VIM. I might even drag Bill back over here with his unmodded Momitsu and have a second set of eyes on a A/B and C/D test.


-Clarence*
Please let me know when the opportunity arises. I can come back over or you can come down here with the modded Momitsu and some of your chairs and we can kill several birds with one stone.


----------



## Pedro-in-Oz

How long is your cable run Clarence?


----------



## Clarence

The actual distance between my Marquee and the DVD players is


----------



## Clarence

Quote:

_Originally posted by Belcherwm_
*Please let me know when the opportunity arises. I can come back over or you can come down here with the modded Momitsu and some of your chairs and we can kill several birds with one stone. *
We should do both... Make it an A/B (momitsu vs modded-momitsu) C/D (VIM vs MP/VIM) and E/F (Clarence's Marquee and your BD808) test.


Are you really interested in a row of seats? My wife's begging me to get rid of the rest of those seats before we move. I'm hoping to trade some to ChrisH too if he finds some clean HD8s for me, since my anti-reflective coatings were ruined by a previous owner.


-Clarence


----------



## garyfritz

*Mike winced when he saw the thin guage wires at the BNC connectors.*


Mike, I'm planning to run RG6/U to my projector -- only about an 8-10' run. I assume that's good? Then it's just the D15 -> 5BNC cable I have to worry about...


----------



## Clarence

One other thing to add, I've tried 2 different Extrons to (109+ and 202xi) to pump up the signal voltage from .7 to 1v p-p. Yecch. I let Bill borrow the 202xi to see if he had better results. Certainly not the same effect as MP's VIM.


I asked Mike yesterday the highest he measured out of the Momitsu+MP1, IIRC it was 0.76v p-p.


-Clarence


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by kkanizar_
*If I were to pick up a Momitsu, who could I get to mod it with a MP-1 and what would the cost be?

Kevin Kanizar

Woodbridge, VA.*
That would be answered later this month, or by next month. I've been in discussions with someone who will be taking over attaching MP-1's to video cards, as well as offering complete HTPC's that will be shipped with calibrated signal levels - to be announced later!


A big thanks to clarence for the invitation and hospitality, everything about the visit was well worth the trip. Clarence is one of those type of HT geeks that you love to meet, a swell guy, and someone I'm aiming to put on my friends list. I've been in a many home theater, but that was the first time I've seen 4 screens in one room in a residence. This may sound strange, but if you get to meet Clarence and see his setup, you'll find that room to be a work of art, mainly because of Clarence's passion for the hobby.


Hopefully I'll get around to modding a set of boards (Marquee) to take back to Clarence this coming weekend. I also plan to return the Momitsu, and to leave both items with him.


The screen that the Marquee was firing on is probably the largest HT screen I've ever seen. It's the first very large HT screen that convinced me that you can get a very watchable image from a very large screen. Seriously, I was very impressed, so impressed that I'm hoping to show up one day with a bag of pop corn.


mike


----------



## dokworm

Apparently the VIM boards are really the biz. I am very interested to see whether an MP Modded Momo is making much difference on a short cable run, or whether it is mainly the upgraded VIMs.

And also whether there is any difference A/Bing a modded and unmodded momp *without* the ultra clean picture as a result of the VIMs mod. i.e. wether any improvement is only visible once you clean the rest of the chain up.


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by dokworm_
*Apparently the VIM boards are really the biz. I am very interested to see whether an MP Modded Momo is making much difference on a short cable run, or whether it is mainly the upgraded VIMs.

And also whether there is any difference A/Bing a modded and unmodded momp *without* the ultra clean picture as a result of the VIMs mod. i.e. wether any improvement is only visible once you clean the rest of the chain up.*
Yes, the VIM addition itself is something to experience..!


Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.


It's a very easy thing to remove filters from the output of any DAC, and once that's done you'll notice an increase in sharpness. This is a quick and dirty way to improve (?) the performance of any DAC's analog signal. But let's also understand what happens when that is done. The quick part is the 5 minute filter removal. The dirty part is that once the filters are removed, you'll allowing the noise from the DAC to get into the image. That noise is a distortion, and that distortion can also look like sharpness. The purpose for the filtering is two fold. One being interference, while the other is to lower or eliminate the DAC's processing noise from being a part of the final analog signal. With the filters removed, you'll experience a tad sharper image, however that same image will also have an increase in digital noise. Well, the MP-1 has filtering to lower or eliminate that noise from the DAC. In fact, it might even have more filtering than what is found after the processing DAC, and that is where the word "Clean" comes from when someone comments on its performance.


The main goal of the MP-1 is first to "clean" up the signal from the DAC, and then provide a higher current signal to drive longer cable runs - so it does more than just drive a longer cable.


------


----------



## smddoc

O.K, what is a VIM ?


----------



## gn2

Video Input Module. Its an Electrohome Marquee part, just like HDM is a Horizontal Deflection Module in a Marquee.


----------



## stefuel

And has absolutely nothing to do with a "U812"


Chip


----------



## dokworm

Quote

_____________________-

Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.

______________________


I agree, I would love to see a 880 with and without MP1 on an unmodded projector with a short cable run to ascertain the difference. Would also love to see an 880 with BNC's connected vs a fully MP-1 modded unit, so that you were comparing apples to apples with the cable connections etc.


Shame you aren't interested in modding DVD players, I think the amazing v880 could be turned into something absolutely superb with a bitta work.


I retrofitted a compaq laptop power supply into mine last night, the 12v rail is now solid as a rock, but I will have to get another momo to compare it to, as my memory isn't trustworthy enough to know if it has given any picture improvement.


----------



## dokworm

Ahh, thanks for letting me know my mailbox was full! I had no idea!

The CD/DVD retrieval unit thingie is from here
http://www.imation.com.au/products/d...akka/index.htm 

It handles the discs beautifully, they are safe, sound and clean, and a click and you get your disc. Don't know how I lived without the thing after having it for a week!


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by dokworm_
*Quote

_____________________-

Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.

______________________


I agree, I would love to see a 880 with and without MP1 on an unmodded projector with a short cable run to ascertain the difference. Would also love to see an 880 with BNC's connected vs a fully MP-1 modded unit, so that you were comparing apples to apples with the cable connections etc.


Shame you aren't interested in modding DVD players, I think the amazing v880 could be turned into something absolutely superb with a bitta work.

*
The MP-1 makes the Momitsu look better at any cable length. Though the 880 may look good without filtering, filtering is much needed, as it's very important to strip some noise from the DAC analog out for a cleaner (not necessarily sharper) image. Also, the analog out on the Sigma's DAC does not have the punch (and the voltage level is correct) for long cable runs. Let me be clear on what I mean here when I say "long/longer" cable runs.


----------



## garyfritz

Mike, the mods aren't rocket science, are they? How about providing kits and instructions for those of us who know which end of a soldering iron to hold?


----------



## igroucho

Quote:

_Originally posted by garyfritz_
*Mike, the mods aren't rocket science, are they? How about providing kits and instructions for those of us who know which end of a soldering iron to hold?*
You learn that in one go?


----------



## garyfritz

I'm a fast learner.


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

From the wisdom-technologies web site:

Quote:

The MP-1 is not available as a DIY item.
I gather then that this thread is more of an academic discussion?


----------



## garyfritz

So Mike, how much degradation do you see in longer runs without the MP-1? My cable run is going to be about 15-18' of RG6/U. I didn't realize that would cause a problem.


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Luis Rodriguez_
*From the wisdom-technologies web site:




I gather then that this thread is more of an academic discussion?*
No, my response to this thread so far was that "I have no interest" in this, meaning that I'll not get into attaching the mod to a DVD player myself.


I'm open to suggestions on this...


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*No, my response to this thread so far was that "I have no interest" in this, meaning that I'll not get into attaching the mod to a DVD player myself.*
Are you saying that the mod can be purchased separately?


----------



## Budget Pete

In Australia, it seems to be the the only way the mod is available!


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

Can someone point me to a source? The only sites that I can find only sell pre-moded video cards.


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Luis Rodriguez_
*Can someone point me to a source? The only sites that I can find only sell pre-moded video cards.*
I'm looking into providing the mod as a DIY. It sounds simple, but there's a lot to consider when/if someone attempts to attach the mod and can damage the circuit that they're trying to attach it to. The mod has a warrantee, and will be covered with the exception of physical or any other obvious damage...


Also, I'll not want to get into installation support, so I was hoping for some suggestions.


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

I'd be willing to buy with no warranty of any kind and zero installation support beyond the help one can find on this forum. Put up a disclaimer in big letters about how attempting to mod the player is risky, can destroy the player, will void the warranty and has been shown to cause cancer in laboratory animals.


----------



## garyfritz

I'd like to see at least a clear explanation (with pictures) of what to do. Beyond that I think there are plenty of people here who can (and want to) do it on their own.


----------



## Budget Pete

Do you mean offering the mod as a retail 'unit' or releasing the info for people to make one themselves?


If it is the first option, I think that the resellers then have to handle all installation support issues, and warranty claims, then you only have to worry about warranty replacements on units that failed due to a defect.


----------



## jayluft

I tried this over in the DVD forum, but I think the digital heads are not understanding - therefore:


I just received my V880 and began a quick setup. I am running a Electrohome 9501LC CRT unit hooked up to it.


My connection type is as follows: V880 DVI out to a DVI-VGA adapter>VGA cable>VGA to RGBHV cable breakout to my CRT.


The Electrohome lets me configure all the up to 1920 X 1080p @71.924 kHz uisng my HTPC without issue, but I can only get two resolutions to work on the DVI output of the V880:

1) 480p

2) 768p


- 720p / 1080i doesn't work????


Any thoughts?


----------



## Joshua Snyder

I am running the same setup all except for an extron box. that box handles the sync and cable run signal boost.


However I am now running a custom resolution of 960p, and when you setup custom resolutions, you have an option for sync polarity. Perhaps you should explore that.


Also, I have found that 720p and 1080i out of the momitsu look great for the actual film, but subtitles and menus look a bit off. but at 960p, everything including the menus and titles is pristine.


Josh


----------



## jayluft

Josh,

Okay...... I decided to get out my Extron Switch (4 in / 1 out VGA without the signal boost) and run through there. It worked like a charm. I now have all my resolutions...??? Still looking forward though to the 960p numbers I pm'ed you about.


I wonder why, running straight into the projector didn't work?


----------



## Halo1963

Mike I think most of us would be happy with the DIY MP1

With just the warranty on the MP1

The installation support would be from this thread or a new thread

Thats what AVS is all about


Chip has already attached one so there is a good start

As you have seen there is a lot of people interested

and any body to date that has done the mod has installed the MP1 them self after removing it from a video card (why wast a card and the time to fit and remove )with no warranty

The BNC connectors could be supplied loose (or not at all)as these would also require removal more work wasted


My Momitsu should arrive next week and I would assist any way possible

as i am sure many other AVS members will

Most of the information is on AVS

We would just have to put it on one page


This is what I think would be required

1 MP1

2 BNC location template

3 signal connection points (as per Hitman's mod ?)

4 mounting instructions for the MP1 PCB

5 power connection

6 BNC connecting and grounding

7 parts list


Does this look right ?

Can anyone think of anything else required


I eagerly await your response


Regards

Halo1963


----------



## garyfritz

Maybe throw in an upgrade to the lousy power supply while we're at it??


----------



## stefuel

I was messing around with the user controls on my Momitsu tonight which I've not tried before and just noticed that the contrast control is reversed.

I have not heard anyone else report this yet. I wonder if it's just mine. Yikes, the brightness control is like tweaking with a hammer. You can get it close but not perfect.


Chip


----------



## gn2

If the controls had about 25 times the number of gradations, it would be MUCH easier to get a great image, but it can still be done.


----------



## JVanderwalker

I have found that with these controls you can get in the ballpark but the final tweak has to be with the PJ's brightness and contrast controls. The saturation control I find to be great on lackluster source material.

Jim


----------



## bblue

It sure looks to me like unless the brightness control is set dead center (neutral?) and correction done elsewhere, some detail is lost.


IOW, raising the player brightness a notch and lowering the pj brightness accordingly (or vice versa) doesn't seem to produce the same quality of picture as when brightness is centered.


Can someone else with a critical eye and system check me on this?


--Bill


----------



## mp20748

The best setting for the brightness control is the center point. The problem is that with the present state of the detent settings, it's not possible to achieve a precise 0 or 7.5 IRE pedestal.


The detent center setting places the brightness pretty much near 7.5, but not exactly, but with some fiddling with the projector, it's not that big of a deal. I only wish the unit could be set to 0 IRE (VESA) as well.


-------


The MP-1 will now be made available as a DIY mod.


----------



## Halo1963

Thats good news Mike


How much is it going cost?

Are they available now ?

What will be included in the DIY form?

Where do we get them from ?


Any progress on posting your 9 component mod

Did you tap in at the same place as hitman22 mod

If you used a different point could you let us know


Regards

Halo1963


----------



## kal

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*Also, I'll not want to get into installation support, so I was hoping for some suggestions.*
It all boils down to one thing: You're going to need a simple (not too technical) way for someone to test their MP-1 to make sure that it's working correctly. I'm not entirely sure how this could be done however...


You need this because what's going to happen inadvertently is that someone who's never soldered before is going to get adventurous and buy the DIY MP-1 kit and then proceed to BREAK their Momitsu without realizing it. Now their Momitsu stopped working. All they did was add the MP-1 mod, so obviously the MP-1 module is broken right? They'll uninstall the MP-1 and the Momitsu will still not work so obviously the MP-1 mod broke their momitsu! 


Kal


----------



## stefuel

This is something someone has to really want for more than just a few reasons. Consider this. As soon as you drill the pilot hole for the first BNC you have voided your warrantee. No Momitsu should be modded without running it for a while prior to hacking it. Drop shipping one for the mod should not be considered. The shipping, materials and labor to mod it will cost more than the player. With that said, the best way to do it is DIY. After having done one, I would say that it's pretty easy and the parts list for the kit would be small and would look something like this.


1. Instruction sheet

2. MP-1 w/power supply

3. 5- 75 Ohm female non-isolated panel mount BNC's

4. 1- stand-off w/2 retaining screws

5. 2- jumper wires (one black and one grey) to bring H and V sync out

6. 2- small zip ties

7. 1- stick on template to locate BNC holes on the rear


That's about all there is to it. Estimated time to complete and test (3 Hrs).

Also keep in mind that this is not finished yet as it has not been established what the final output of the MP-1 will be to make this work it's best. I watched the test Momitsu for about five hours last night, connected to my NEC through 50 foot DIY cables on it's own (no Extron) and it was almost perfect. If the MP-1 with jumpers on is .75 volts, I think it would be perfect at about 1/10th volt more, but I'll let Mike make the call on that one.


Chip


----------



## Halo1963

Any word on price and availability


Thanks


----------



## Chris Young

Hi Mike,


I purchased your MP1 mod about eighteen months ago which you installed on my ATI9500pro. Is it possible for you to remove this item and adapt it like your MP1.3 so that I may use it on a newer video card I purchased? Being a stand alone unit. Is it as simple as putting a DB15 connector on the wires after decoding the plug(DB15)? What would this cost to have you do this or is this something I could do, I am pretty good with a soldering iron Is there another option? Maybe a trade in towards your new MP1.3? Unless I'm missing something they appear to be the same circuit board set-up.


Thank You for your time,

Chris Young


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Halo1963_
*Any word on price and availability


Thanks*
Sorry it has taking me so long to get back on this. I will make the MP-1 available for DIY. The cost for the DIY version of the mod will be $250.00.


It will be made available with (attached) 12" RGB cables, five 75 ohm BNC bulkheads (not attached to the cables). It will not come with the BNC plate, that is standard on the regular MP-1.


Shoot me an email for more info (see below).


-------


Chris,

yes, the MP-1 and the MP-1.3 are basically the same circuit.


I can't comment on using a MP-1.3 with a standard video card, because I've yet to try that. The mold has successfully been transfered to another card by many, but if you need to have that done log onto my website near the beginning of next month, and you'll find a link to where to send it.



I've been very busy, and I'm also bent on getting the MP-5 finished.


----------



## HV-MAN

Any results yet on the different comparisons of players fitted and not fitted with mp-1 mod ?


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by HV-MAN_
*Any results yet on the different comparisons of players fitted and not fitted with mp-1 mod ?*
I've loaned out my modified Momitsu. Hopefully there will be a comparison done between the Momitsu/MP-1 and the non modded Momitsu, and that info be made known.


----------



## Clarence

Yep! There will definitely be a comparison.


I was working at a customer's test site on Wednesday near Mike, so he invited me over and I managed to sneak out with his MP-Momitsu (it has MP-1 v2)!


I'd already ordered an unmodded Momitsu last weekend. It hasn't arrived yet. I might have Bill bring his for the comparison.


I also have an Extron 109+ and a 202xi, so I'll add those for comparison.


- $50 Coby 480p

- $120 TVOne "XGA Theater" 1024x768 scaler

- HTPC ATI AIW 9600p

- unmodded Momitsu

- unmodded Momitsu w/Extron 109+

- unmodded Momitsu w/Extron 202xi

- MP-1 v2 Momitsu with 5BNC out (jumpers off)

- MP-1 v2 Momitsu with 5BNC out (jumpers on)


Scot Kight lives down the road and has an incredible eye for PQ, so I've invited him over to provide additional commentary.


So this weekend I'll try to post more on the MP-Momitsu than you ever hoped for!


-Clarence


----------



## garyfritz

This is a bit off-topic, but I've just learned about the mods to turn an Xbox into a multi-res (480p, 720p, 1080i) DVD player. Get a $100 Xbox and $50-100 in upgrades and you have a network-capable player (like the $400 V880N) with component out for less than $200. Region- and Macrovision-free just like the Momo. Oh and you can play games with it if you want. 


Has anybody here seen one of these? Any idea of the PQ? I'd love to see one of these hacked Xboxes in your shoot-off, Clarence!


Gary


----------



## stefuel

I'm waiting... I've just about bitten off all my fingernails in anticipation.

Thumbs up or is it the other way?


Chip


----------



## Clarence

Oh, the thumbs are way up.


Sorry... too many things going on today...


I hadn't even taken my unmodded Momitsu out of the box. I've had MP's hooked up for 3 days and I'm loving it.


But here's the heartbreaker... I thought my Marquee was frying VIMs...


A couple of weeks ago, Scot noticed some noise in his VIM.

He only lives a few miles away, so I told him to bring it by, we'll pop it in my Marquee.

Sure enough, the noise from his VIM showed up on my Marquee too.

So I told him "I can live with your noisy VIM for a few days, take my VIM and pop it in your Marquee."

He did, and my VIM was nice and clean in his Marquee.


Then Mike Parker brought over his modded VIM for my Marquee.

I popped out Scot's noisy VIM and put in MP's.

Wow! I fell in love with it. Especially after it left and I popped Scot's VIM back in. For some reason, I have to pump up the B&C to 60+ on Scot's VIM to get decent picture. I usually watch with Contrast=40.


So then Scot buys a couple of VIMs on ebay, and he returns mine.

I pop it in, and boom 3 red lights: ERROR, H Fail, V Fail.

Hmmm... I double check the connections.

I pop it in again, still 3 red lights: ERROR, H Fail, V Fail.

So I say 17 cuss words, pop in Scot's old noisy VIM, and it works (still noisy, but no ERROR lights).

So I try my original VIM a 3rd time, but still get 3 red lights.


Nothing obvious on the card. And I know Scot well enough to know he treats electronics with great care. It's just as likely that I boogered it when sliding it back in. And all things considered, we were lucky because he just got 2 VIMs at a killer price, tested them out, and they work fine in his Marquee.


So he comes over today for just a few minutes to drop off his spare VIM.


30 seconds after he leaves, I pop the spare VIM into my Marquee and I get:
VSYNC OUT OF RANGE

HSYNC OUT OF RANGE


The voices in my head went hoarse from cussing so much.


So then of course, my wife drags me out of the house for a family activity at church with the kids. Maybe for the better. I calmed down and when I got back I was clear headed.... so I started troubleshooting...


Try a different source...

PC: VSYNC OUT OF RANGE; HSYNC OUT OF RANGE


But then I thought... Hmm.. the Coby+Extron that I hooked up to my 1031Q last night has a H/V scan meter...

Coby 480p through Extron 109+: SUCCESS!


Hmm. That's odd.


I popped out the VIM (one of the VIMs that Scot got on ebay) and give it a close inspection.


Check out the attached picture .


The pins on the back of the H BNC are snipped and boogered with solder!

WTF?!


Looks like my Extron worked because it lets my Marquee Sync on Green?


Sure enough, I hook up my unmodded Momitsu through the Extron and the 2nd VIM works fine as long as I sync on Green.


So I can't use MP's modded-Momitsu, unless I use Scot's noisy VIM (which isn't ideal for showing top PQ). And I can't run MP's Momitsu through the Extron, because the 109+ takes HD15 and MP's has 5BNC out (his HD15 is disabled/rerouted).


Whew.


Long story, but that's why I don't have the MP-Momitsu report.


But I'll say this... it looks incredible, even through Scot's noisy VIM.


Why would someone snip the H BNC on a VIM?


-Clarence


----------



## Clarence

No A/B comparison screenshots yet, but Mike said I could peek under the covers:

http://herndonrelay.org/avs/mp-momitsu-1.jpg 


-Clarence


----------



## Budget Pete

Re the xbox, it's processor isn't fast enough to upscale DVD's to 1080i. It does display stills in gorgeous 1080i, and do 480P DVD and play games in up to 1080i, and play DiVX, quicktime, MP3's WMAs, slideshows, and more. Its great fun!


BTW is the mod RGB or Component?

I would love to see a momitsu with just BNC's added to it, vs the Momitsu with the MP-1 so that the cable question gets left out of the equation, but den I is just greedy!


----------



## gn2

Clarence: Why don't you just repair the H BNC on your VIM ? It would be a pretty simple repair, wouldn't it ?


----------



## Clarence

Technically, it's still Scot's spare VIM.

We just did a massive ad hoc swap of 5 VIMs:

- my original VIM which now gives 3 error lights (Scot's going to try this one again)

- Scot's original noisy VIM (I have this one currently)

- Scot's new ebay VIM #1 (in his machine now)

- Scot's ebay VIM #2 (with the broken H BNC connector ) (I have it)

- MP's modded VIM (I might borrow this again for the best comparison)


I don't know where my soldering iron is right now. Most of our stuff is packed up for the move. Even if I went to ratshack for a $5 iron, my solder skills suck. I could hack a cable, but since this is still technically Scot's card and he's great at soldering, I'm in no rush to dink with it.


Scot: I'm curious if my original VIM gives you the same red errors in your Marquee.


-Clarence


----------



## stefuel

That's pretty much the way I did it. I'll have to ask Mike why he pulled the power off the supply the way he did. I removed a ground and 5+ volt wire out of the connector, soldered the MP-1 power supply wires on and reinserted them back into the connector. I also used mini coax for the H and V connections so that a twisted pair of wires would not be needed. I used a stand-off and mounted the MP-1 onto the main board in the front corner closest to the headphone jack. I siliconed the MP-1 power supply to the chassis in the same area so that it would stay put. I also have the jumpers on. I have tested mine on a 50 foot run of DIY 75 ohm quad shield cables and the result was very good. I can't believe that the only two forum members that have one of these to test have projectors with problems. I'm still waiting for my STK chips to show up, but even with less than optimal projector performance, I can see that this is a good thing.


Chip


----------



## mp20748

Chip,

it appears that you have the better way to install the MP-1 into the 880.


Have you considered doing this for someone who may want this done?


----------



## Daniel Bishop

Chip,


I second Mike's suggestion.


I have been following this thread with great interest and would happily forward my Momitsu, purchase Mike's DIY MP-1 kit, and compensate you to perform the mod.


I am sure others would gladly jump aboard!


Daniel


----------



## Clarence

Can anybody figure out how to pause a Momitsu without getting that 51" wide "PAUSE *||*"?


Yes, I measured it...

the pause logo is wider than my "big screen RPTV" upstairs 


Most other DVD players remove the PAUSE after a couple of seconds. Or I can trick them by Pausing, then hitting Vol up or something similar.


I don't see a setting like "On Screen Display: OFF"


-Clarence


----------



## CMRA

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*Can anybody figure out how to pause a Momitsu without getting that 51" wide "PAUSE ||"?


Yes, I measured it...

the pause logo is wider than my "big screen RPTV" upstairs 


Most other DVD players remove the PAUSE after a couple of seconds. Or I can trick them by Pausing, then hitting Vol up or something similar.


I don't see a setting like "On Screen Display: OFF"


-Clarence*
What's your take on the Momitsu? DId you do the 'update' mentioned here on AVS? How does it compare with your HTPC?


----------



## Clarence

I was tempted by the Momitsu hype in the DVD Forum for months. Then when Bill brought his to my Meet&Geek, 5 seconds after I saw it, I knew I was going to buy one. And I did.


I haven't used (or missed) my HTPC since borrowing MP's modded Momitsu, then buying one of my own.


It's so good, that I took the HTPC out of my HT plans for the new house (20 days and counting!)


We've watched more movies in the last 3 weeks than we've watched in the last 3 months... it's nice to just turn on the PJ, pop a DVD in the Momitsu, and press play... my wife can do it.


I used to roll my eyes at people that whined about HTPCs, but I'm enjoying _watching_ the movies instead of dinking with PC video.


Here's an interesting observation... I've frequently searched ebay for "Momitsu" over the last 3 months...

I've seen 1 listed for sale.

Yep, 1.

I'm sure there were thousands of people who bought a Momitsu thinking they would ebay it if they weren't impressed. But it's definitely a keeper.


And I was paranoid about the cheesy process of buying one from extremephono with paypal. But a couple of clicks, and a couple of days, that beautiful thing was on my doorstep.


But this frickin' remote... Time for a Pronto.


-Clarence


----------



## jayluft

Just would like to echo word for word the statements of marcorsyscom. I've had my V880 for a little over a week and have almost come to the exact same conclusion. I have touted the virtues of the HTPC for a couple of years and I have tested, many external DVD players always doing a comparison with the HTPC. The V880 is very, very close. The V880 wins on ease of use, but of course, it is not as flexible.


For the first time in two plus years, I now consider having two choices when watching a movie. Boy, I never thought I would say that.....


And yes, the remote stinks!


----------



## Phil Smith

I've haven't read any of this thread. I just wanted to comment that Jay Luft came by yesterday and brought along his Momitsu. My feeling about it has always been, "Those guys that rave about the Momitsu probably wouldn't recognize a good picture if it came up and bit them in the ass!" No way THAT machine could look as good as you guys claim. As much as it hurts my feelings to admit it, it looks every bit as good as my HTPC, which cost me well over $2K to build. Amazing is the only word I can think of to describe it.


Jay and I are both rippers (Jay has done some really cool stuff), and we both agree that we'll stick with HTPCs because of all the other things they'll do. But man, the Momitsu is an incredible machine! NOW I understand what you guys have been raving about.


----------



## garyfritz

And it's as good as you guys say even BEFORE the MP mod, right?


I'm in the process of setting up my PC. I'm coughing up $$ everywhere I look -- construction, projector, sound system, etc etc etc. For $250 I can get the basic Momitsu and its reputedly excellent picture. For ANOTHER $250 I can add the MP mods. I just don't think I can justify it yet. Will I be sorry, if I'm feeding my CRT with 16' of Belden 1505a high-freq coax?


Gary


----------



## stylinlp

Ummm, I hear some of you saying that this DVD player equals or surpasses your HTPC's but I would like a little more clarification on that if you don't mind.

What software and hardware are you comparing it too? Theater Tek with ffdshow doing full resize?

Also, are you watching dvd movies on a crt projector? Just saying this dvd player is better than your old HTPC is not enough 


Reason I'm asking is because I'm on the verge of upgrading my HTPC. AMD 1000 with Radeon 9200se. Theater Tek.

Going full blown P4 2.8c with Radeon 9600 with full ffdshow resize, chroma and luma sharpen and denoise3d.

ELectrohome 8500 crt projector here.


----------



## CMRA

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*It's so good, that I took the HTPC out of my HT plans for the new house (20 days and counting!)

-Clarence*
Sounds good to me. But, before you toss your HTPC you need to take a trip to Microsoft's HDV site. We're talking true 1020p and it is as good or better than any HDTV signal I've seen. The detail and color are superb.


The good: No fancy dvd player required. My $29.00 Fry's special does the trick. (BTC internal 8x)

The bad: Requires a potent PC/video card/memory setup. Works best with windows XP.


----------



## fs123

Too bad they arnt releasing anything worthwhile to watch otherwise i might keep my htpc


----------



## Clarence

My "HTPC" is just my old home PC (1.4 GHz P4 and 512Mb RAM) that I threw an AIW 9600p into (and a $27 7.1 soundcard, and a FusionHDTV-II OTA HD card), XP Home. On a Marquee 8000.


The MS hidef DVDs playback at about 1 fps. So an upgrade is needed.


I just use catalyst at 1280x720... no overlay adjustments, no TT, no ffdshow.


So, to be fair, there are several bells and whistles I should use before we do a topgun shootout between the Momitsu and a "real" HTPC.


-Clarence


----------



## gn2

Quote:

Too bad they arnt releasing anything worthwhile to watch otherwise i might keep my htpc
EXACTLY!!!

Quality is one thing, we all want it, but content is what rules the day. One can only be fascinated by the quality for so long before the suckiness of the content begins to shine through.

As for what kind of HTPC the Momitsu compares favourably too, I've got an P4 3Gig 800Mhz fsb with 1Gig of RAM, and a Radeon 9500, running Zoom Player pro with WinDVD video and spdif out for audio, using resize to 1440 x 960, Lancos sharpening, AND Adaptive sharpening, and Levels, and Gradual Denoise. Its a great, great image, very close to HD, and I've done comaprisons, side by side with my DTheater HD content. The Momitsu is NOT this good, BUT, its close enough, that the majority of the time, thats what I use. PQ is only very slightly less than my HTPC, and likely is equal to many peoples pq from their HTPC. Really, the Momitsu is good.


----------



## stefuel

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*Chip,

it appears that you have the better way to install the MP-1 into the 880.


Have you considered doing this for someone who may want this done?*
Considering...


The remote, what irritates me the most about the remote? Try setting it down on your coffee table with an inch of the end hanging over the edge of the table. The shape of the bottom sends it flying off the table. Try this,

put the remote on the table and slowly push it over the edge. As soon as it hits the curve of the rear, it shoots forward and off it goes.


Chip


----------



## jayluft

CMRA, you are correct. The HTPC displaying the WM9 HD stuff looks incrediable!!! I can't wait until I can see some content released in this format.


I'm not speaking for everyone hear, but I think the majority that have tried the Momitsu V880 (even without the MP-1) would say that the picture is "close enough" to what they are obtaining with their HTPC, that suddenly the ease of use factor kicks in. I went back and forth between the HTPC and V880 and realized for the first time, I need to have an external DVD player. Now my kids and wife can operate my HT system without worrying about screwing anything up and it will not hurt my eyes when I pop in to see what they are watching.


I'm keeping my HTPC for ALL the other reasons, without a doubt. When I initiate a movie watching session, I'll be watching it on the HTPC, because I know it's still a little better. Although the V880 is very close, still nothing can beat a HTPC using TheaterTek and ffdshow software.


----------



## garyfritz

So that says clearly (for me anyway) the Momo is a better answer for me than coughing up $2-3k for a full-blown HTPC. We have 3 PCs and 3 laptops in the house but none of them is available and/or appropriate for a dedicated HTPC, so I'd have to build one from scratch.


But I'm still tempted by the Xbox "$150 HTPC" solution. I'd love to have the ability to rip & store DVDs and then play them off the LAN. With an Xbox I could do it for $150 or so, vs. $400 for the V880N. But no idea what the PQ is like, and no idea if the Xbox is a lot more of a pain to run (for my wife etc) than a Momo.


Decisions, decisions...

Gary


----------



## Clarence

No fair starting with the Momitsu.


You have to have fun experimenting and cussing with a HTPC for 6 months, upgrading every component piece by piece, so you'll have a better appreciation for the ease of use and PQ you get from a Momitsu.


----------



## Budget Pete

The xbox is real easy to run, but it wil not scale video smoothly.

The DVD playback is ggod, and the divX playback is excellent. But you will have to put in a 120GB HD or bigger if you want to store lots of movies on it, which brings the cost closer to the momo, and if you can't mod the box yourself, you will have to pay someone to do it.

Once the xbox is set up, it is completely menu driven via the remote, you can pick your videos and music by the covers, by the actors, the genre etc. You can even get your local weather. But it won't scale your DVD playback up to 720P or 1080i.

If you like watching DVD's more than anything, then get the momitsu. If you like gaming, have a big MP3 and divx collection, and have a digital camera, then get the xbox (You can play slideshows with music as well!)


----------



## Phil Smith

Clarence if you're using AIW to watch DVDs, I imagine your Momitsu looks a lot better than your HTPC.


I have a P4 2.8 with top notch everything when I built it a year ago. It's overkill if anything. PDI/xCard combo for DVD.


I think my HTPC plays a DVD about as good as it can be played. I couldn't see any difference. What exactly do you guys think the Momitsu lacks?


----------



## Phil Smith

Quote:

_Originally posted by gn2_
*Quality is one thing, we all want it, but content is what rules the day. One can only be fascinated by the quality for so long before the suckiness of the content begins to shine through.*
Well put! I couldn't agree more. That's why I currently have zero interest in WMV HD, even though I'm set up to play them.


----------



## bblue

I have to agree in general -- the Momitsu is very good, but it is not as good in clarity and depth as my HTPC, which as Phil pointed out cost probably 8 times as much. That's without an MP-1 on either one of them.


It's becoming quite clear that a lot of folks with HTPC's are not getting nearly what they could out of them, which is at least one reason the Momitsu is so eye-catching.


I also haven't heard much in recent rave reports about the necessary power supply and wiring mods that are essential for the best Momitsu performance. People seem to be impressed with it right out of the box with no mods. It's a little above mediocre like that.


If you have not made the above mods, you're missing out! I think it was Jaehong Lee(?) that first posted some basic mods that improved his Momitsu, but he didn't carry them quite far enough. Those plus an MP-1 installed with at least Chip's wiring suggestions would be essential.


Here are some pictures of my prelimary physical and power supply mods, and some comments:


http://nada.netoldies.com/mom-inside-full.jpg 
http://nada.netoldies.com/mom-inside-right.jpg 
http://nada.netoldies.com/mom-inside-left.jpg 


1. Note the separation of the two power supply runs. Each should be twisted as many turns per inch as you can (as shown).


2. The runs should be kept close to the chassis and away from other components. I used a little hot-glue to secure them in place.


3. The new data cable to the DVD ROM is a fairly ordinary 80 wire cable, but with each ten wires separated such that you have 8 groups of ten on top of each other through the harness. It too, should be kept at chassis level. The cable cost about $15 at Fry's -- it's not necessary to buy really expensive shielded cable.


4. Disconnect the headphone amp unless you really need it.



I'm just taking some power supply board closeups and will post them and some details in the next message.


--Bill


----------



## bblue

Ok, here are two pictures of the Momitsu power supply.

http://nada.netoldies.com/mom-pwr-top.jpg 
http://nada.netoldies.com/mom-pwr-bot.jpg 


The capacitor shown in the first picture can be 33mfd to 47mfd miniature electrolytic. If your player runs on 120V AC, the capacitor can be a 250 volt unit, otherwise it must be a 400 volt unit.


The capacitor leads connect directly to the ends of diodes as pictured to keep them as short as possible. The negative lead is on the left looking at the picture.


In the second picture there are 5 capacitors added to the bottom of the board. The larger two are 4.7mfd-6.8mfd tantalums (polarity sensitive), and the other three are .1mfd miniature mylar or dipped ceramic types.


There's undoubtedly more that can be done to improve the supply further, but just this much and the wiring changes in the previous message seem to be sufficient, and prep the unit nicely for an MP-1 addition if you plan on adding one.


--Bill


----------



## CaspianM

Anyone has any thoughts/experience on the Zenith 318?


----------



## cerulean

Quote:

_Originally posted by ArtisTech_
*Anyone has any thoughts/experience on the Zenith 318?*
ArtisTech,


One of the things that makes the Momitsu a good choice for a CRT is that it does VGA out the DVI port. I don't think that the Zenith 318 supports that.


Bob


----------



## Phil Smith

Quote:

_Originally posted by bblue_
*...the Momitsu is very good, but it is not as good in clarity and depth as my HTPC...*
Bill, why is that? What exactly is your HTPC doing better than the Momitsu (and my HTPC) that results better clarity and depth?


What effect do the Momitsu mods you show have on performance?


----------



## dokworm

Can I smell voodoo in the air?


----------



## fs123

You have to remember that this is the crt forum we can suffer a small loss in pq from using a momi and still have a drop dead gorgeous picture


----------



## Clarence

Yep, Fernando... I thought I had a drop dead gorgeous picture 6 months ago...


100% happy!


Then I got HDTV. Went from 100% happy to 120% happy.

Then I fixed my G2 color balance. 140% happy.

Then MP popped in his modded VIM: 160% happy.

Then MP showed me how to center my green astig: 180% happy.

Then MP's modded Momitsu: 200% happy.

Then tonight MP let me borrow his modded neck boards!

And now I've got blending working!


MAN I LOVE THIS HOBBY!


----------



## CMRA

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*And now I've got blending working!


MAN I LOVE THIS HOBBY!*
SHow us please, St. Clarence.


----------



## Clarence

Hi CMRA-


Oh, the current results would make an ugly screenshot... It's the promise and potential that is so exciting right now.


99.44% of the sane world would look at my screen(s) and wonder why I'm grinning like a fool.


The other 0.56% of the world (like AVS Forum members) could appreciate how I can be so proud of fuzzy gray edges that are currently completely on top of each other instead of side-by-side.


I love screenshots... but they're a double-edged sword... it's too easy to hide flaws to make any setup look good at 640x480. And at the other extreme, it's too hard to show stunning picture improvements once you pass a certain PQ threshold... the projected PQ exceeds the digicam's ability to depict the magic.


----------



## CMRA

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*Hi CMRA-


I love screenshots... but they're a double-edged sword... it's too easy to hide flaws to make any setup look good at 640x480. And at the other extreme, it's too hard to show stunning picture improvements once you pass a certain PQ threshold... the projected PQ exceeds the digicam's ability to depict the magic.*
No problem. We can set it up with John so you can post 3 and 4 megapixel screen shots. You can't keep us in the dark forever...your'e Saint Clarence!


PS:That's 98.4236% more 'magic' than allowed by AVS.


----------



## HV-MAN

Quote:

_Originally posted by marcorsyscom_
*Can anybody figure out how to pause a Momitsu without getting that 51" wide "PAUSE ||"?


Yes, I measured it...

the pause logo is wider than my "big screen RPTV" upstairs 


Most other DVD players remove the PAUSE after a couple of seconds. Or I can trick them by Pausing, then hitting Vol up or something similar.


I don't see a setting like "On Screen Display: OFF"


-Clarence*
A solution might be to copy the screen shot frame as a still(same res etc) and burn to DVD use the disc in the different players for comparison..


just an idea might work?


----------



## Halo1963

Does any one have comments on bblue power supply mod

I am interested to know if it is worth doing


bblue

did you do large cap mod


Thanks

Halo1963


----------



## bblue

Phil,

I can't say for sure what all constitutes the differences, but I can make a few educated guesses, including higher sweep rate, 72Hz refresh progressive scan, NVidia FX5700 Ultra video card, and very important -- the decoder & ffdshow settings combinations.


There simply is more detail and 'space' between displayed objects on the HTPC. By comparison, the Momitsu is quite a bit softer. On the other hand, the Momitsu does a killer job of bring out detail in low blacks and overall gives quite an impression of solid rich color detail. But I think part of that is because the 'richer' colors are not interrupted by more subtle detail -- they just look richer as a result.


I'm curious to see just how much the detail and overall sharpness is improved when I add the MP-1. I don't have any kind of a cabling issue, but Mike's assertion is that by removing the Sigma card DAC filters replacing them with the MP-1 filters will make an improvement.


With all the changes that I have shown made as a group, the biggest change in the Momitsu is less noise and irregularity in saturated colors, and better low level detail. The side benefit is there's less likelihood of lockups and other bizarre software behavior caused by the rather anemic power supply (the 12v leg mostly).


I really don't care much for action movies when viewed on the Momitsu in 1080i. There's a lot of extra activity on the screen that you don't experience in progressive and at higher vertical rates. 60hz's flicker tends to be rather annoying after awhile. 1080x720p on the Momitsu looks extra soft to me.


But man, for $250 plus a few extra for some upgrades, it's a killer machine that blows most everything else right out of the water.


Oh, one other thing I've noticed on the Momitsu -- the audio. I just use coax digital output (on it and the HTPC) to an external Meridian decoder, but for some reason the Momitsu audio seems more extended and detailed throughout the spectrum. No time to research this (if true, what, etc.) but it's something I repeatedly notice.


--Bill


----------



## bblue

Halo1963,

I detailed everything done in the mod in the two earlier messages. By your reference to the large cap mod, do you mean the additional 47mfd on the power supply input bridge section? Or something else?


--Bill


----------



## mp20748

Bill, what is your opinion of the 5700 Ultra. I know you own one of the cleanest cards out there (Matrox). I found the Matrox to have the best DAC of them all, until the 5700 hit my bench.


----------



## Halo1963

Yes Bill I can see it now Thanks

Do you think it would be better to use one bigger cap or is it important to have it connected to the diodes

When you talk about Chips wiring mods that would be the mini coax and direct connection to the power connector

Thanks (and sorry for missing the original cap post)


----------



## bblue

Mike,

I really like the NVidia. The Matrox Parhelia was a nice upgrade from the Radeon 9800 Pro which had been my favorite since it was released. But even though the Parhelia was really excellent on detail I always felt there was something missing in the color rendition and it didn't seem to be anything you could compensate for. The NVidia brought the color richness back (and then some) without sacrificing any detail. There's a smoothness about it that is unique -- hard to describe what that means, but I guess you could say effortless. Nothing seems to bother it at all.


I believe the Parhelia did a slightly better job of driving the RGBHV cable directly than the NVidia does, but both do a much better job than the Radeons. My first project when my MP-1's arrive will be installing one on the NVidia, followed by one on the Momitsu. Should be interesting!



Halo1963,

There's nothing wrong with replacing the main power supply cap with a 100mfd, 400v. But two caps totalling close to that works well too. Exceeding 100mfd total will frequently blow the fuse on the AC line. I haven't tested higher values yet, but it seems like the improvement after 100 would be minimal.


I'm not positive that at the +5 volt power connector is really the best place to add the MP-1, since it has it's own DC regulator which mostly isolates it from the source. It may be wise to connect it on the other side of the inductor which feeds the 1000mfd final cap on that rail. Mike may be able to speak for that. My thinking is that by connecting it elsewhere it's not sharing or creating noise on the main +5 output.


I think my original comment about Chip's changes was meant to indicate he was correct that shielded, equal length, mini-coax 75 ohm cabling should be used between the Sigma board outputs and the MP-1 inputs as opposed to how it was shown in the picture Clarence posted.


--Bill


----------



## stefuel

The MP-1 does not deal with H and V sync, only the RGB part of the signal. I doubt that my choice to use mini coax on the H and V would make any difference, but it looks cool. I have not removed any filtering from the Sigma board leaving the DVI connector intact. Note: the new RGBHV connections and the DVI connector are live at the same time but should not be used at the same time. I chose to make the power and signal connections where I did because the idea was to keep it simple for the DIY'er to do themselves and it works well. I'm sure that if the DVI connector and DAC filters are removed from the equasion, the resulting image would be better however, I felt that this would be too much for the average Joe to handle for a DIY installation. Let me tell you that even the quick and dirty MP-1 installation shows a far superior image than the stock Momitsu. When you look at 720P out of the MP-1 after seeing it straight out of the DVI-I connector, you'll swear your looking at an expensive DVD player through an expensive scaler. Right now my modest rack system has a Panasonic RP-62 DVD player and a Quadscan Elite HD to scale it. The quick and dirty MP-1 modded Momitsu beats it by a long shot.


Chip


----------



## armstrr

in a seperate post, someone mentioned there is a new firmware release....it will be interesting to see how this improves things....


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by bblue_
*Mike,

I really like the NVidia. The Matrox Parhelia was a nice upgrade from the Radeon 9800 Pro which had been my favorite since it was released. But even though the Parhelia was really excellent on detail I always felt there was something missing in the color rendition and it didn't seem to be anything you could compensate for. The NVidia brought the color richness back (and then some) without sacrificing any detail. There's a smoothness about it that is unique -- hard to describe what that means, but I guess you could say effortless. Nothing seems to bother it at all.


I believe the Parhelia did a slightly better job of driving the RGBHV cable directly than the NVidia does, but both do a much better job than the Radeons. My first project when my MP-1's arrive will be installing one on the NVidia, followed by one on the Momitsu. Should be interesting!



--Bill*
So your findings are similar to mine. I've said it before, this is a better card than the ATI's. Well, it at least has a better performing DAC for DVD playback. They (Nvidia) has done an exceptional job with the cleaness of the analog section of the DAC, considering that the DAC's on video cards are not fed with both + and - voltage rails.


I also understand that the latest drivers made an improvement in the deinterlacing or motion issue. And you being the most critical person that I know of (you got me beat), this says a lot. I have not had time to get back to the card that I have (5950 which is even better than the 5700). It has a wide backplate, so I was able to attach the BNC's directly to the cards back plate


----------



## bblue

Quote:

...I have (5950 which is even better than the 5700)...
Now you tell me!  I only got the 5700U originally because folks here were saying how great it was, even against the 5900...


But I'm quite happy with this one as it is, and am currently using the 59.64 drivers. I haven't really checked for new ones after that.


--Bill


----------



## fs123

Does the momi play xvid encoded movies?


----------



## Clarence

MP complained about the Momitsu's PS.

Would something like fleabay 3818398381 be usable/better?


----------



## mp20748

Clarence,

I'll keep an eye open for a better supply for the Momitsu. The one that's listed on Ebay is a bit too much for such a small unit.


I've even thought about adding a small passive transformer supply for the rails that drive the DVD player. That would probably solve the problem with the unit, because it would take the DVD supply off of the supply that's in the unit. That should solve the problem.


----------



## garyfritz

Mike, FWIW, that's $19.95 (plus $29 shipping!?) for SEVEN PS's. So it's not quite as expensive as you might have thought.


----------



## Clarence

I think he might mean "too much" amperage... heft.. heat.. size?


I'd rather cram something like that in the Momitsu case than have another transformer to plug in.


S/H is only $12.90 for me or Mike, so that'd be $33 total for 7 (


----------



## Tinman

Well, I bought the supplies for some projects I have been cooking up. I expect to have some left over when I'm done.


Thanks for the link, Guys! I'm guessing 4 will be available once I get them.


Marc


----------



## Biggus

Has anyone had a chance to play with the new Momitsu V880N ?

It certainly looks appealing being able to stream VOB's and other media over the network as well as having a USB conection.


I was about to build an HTPC but if the pic quality is as good as everyone here says, AND it can stream media with ease....


----------



## Belcherwm

V880N hasn't been released yet. Latest projection is end of June.


----------



## Tinman

I am waiting for the V880N with baited breath.


----------



## fs123

Same here, Ive been using a liteon 2001 (no dvi) and it has some very nasty ringing


----------



## Auric

Sorry about my english, but have you seen this on the Momitsu V880N Specification Page Link 


They write about a Video INPUT Module  
Quote:

Optional Video In Module for V880N DVD Player

You can connect your V880N with your VHS, Game box, LD, Camcorder or any other sources and convert analog to digital DVI signal.*.


Supported Video In Type

* Composite Video Input x1

* S-Video Input x1

* Component Video Input x1
 Link 


That's something i would love to have, to get rid of the HTPC and use the Momitsu as a scaler for my Satreceiver   


Greetings Auric


----------



## gn2

That would be nice, a one box solution for many of us. What would be especially nice is if they offered the "Video In Module" as a stand alone, DIY addition to the current Momitsu.


----------



## fs123

I would love that as well so long as it allows stretching a 4:3 to 16:9


----------



## Auric

As far as i know uses Momitsu (like the Yamakawa 375 on der European Market) the EM8550 Chip (and Board) from Sigma Designs Inc.


According to the Selection Guide Link 

Is the EM8550 NOT able to Nonlinear scaling (if that it what it needs to convert 4:3 to 16:9) 


The Later EM8620L will be the Chip of our Dreams......


Greetings Auric


----------



## fs123

What about simply zooming it to fit the screen?


----------



## Auric

Quote:

What about simply zooming it to fit the screen?
That's a standart feature in most of the cheap DVD-Player.......


Greeting Auric


----------



## Tinman

Now if they could only put a TIVO into the Momitsu as well.....


I have a Toshiba DVD/Tivo combo unit. It puts out 480p component.

I don't use it for the HT, but in my bedroom. I like the concept of this box, much like the Pioneer unit that also records to DVD. But a combo with the Momitsu's abilities....... Oh, that would be sweeeet.


Marc


----------



## fs123

Quote:

_Originally posted by Auric_
*That's a standart feature in most of the cheap DVD-Player.......


Greeting Auric*
I mean zooming in standard 4:3 cable programs on the video in module of the new 880n to fill a 16:9 screen


----------



## Auric

Sorry I don't understand You  


If you want to show a 4:3 Movie on a 16:9 Screen,


you have to "zoom out" to get black bars at the sides oft the screen


or you have to "zoom in" to lose Information on the top and the bottom...


If you just stretch the Movie at the side the result istn't nice....



Greetings Auric


----------



## fs123

Im ok with losing some of the top and bottom of a 4:3 to fill a 16:9 and prevent burn in


----------



## Lightningman

Hi,


On the V880N VIM here is a quote from the Momi site:


"You can connect your V880N with your VHS, Game box, LD,

Camcorder or any other sources and convert analog to

digital DVI signal.*"


Not very interesting for any of us CRT users. Sorry to spoil

the rage 



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Budget Pete

Didn't someone mention the Korean knock off of the Momitsu having a space for a hard drive?


----------



## Lightningman

Hi,

Quote:

_Originally posted by Budget Pete_
*Didn't someone mention the Korean knock off of the Momitsu having a space for a hard drive?*
Momitsu states the 880N can access either LAN or a HDD directly

via USB.



Addendum: From the site: DVI x1 (with HDCP, Digital Only)


That's a KILLER for all CRTer w/o a scaler or transcoder. Wonder

why Momi did that   



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Budget Pete

Hey Bill, how would you say the stock 5700U compares to a Radeon with MP-1 Fitted?

Has pricing for the V880N been announced?


----------



## Auric

Quote:

Sorry to spoil the rage
I've seen this Reinhard, but for my point of view I'ts a mistake on the webpage.


There is no technical reason for this limitation, because the Sigma Chip is able to!!


Let's see what the Firmware is able to 


Greetings Auric


----------



## Biggus

If only they wouldn't keep delaying the release date every month by a month :/


----------



## gn2

When that happens, it sounds suspiciously like vapourware.

Did anyone buy a "laser" crt yet ? They will be out next month !! (snicker, snicker)


----------



## Biggus

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*Hi,


Addendum: From the site: DVI x1 (with HDCP, Digital Only)


That's a KILLER for all CRTer w/o a scaler or transcoder. Wonder

why Momi did that   



Greets,

Reinhard*
I have contacted them in regard to this and they have stated that it has an analog output.

_From Momitsu Support Email *"V880 and V880N both models support RGB Analog from DVI-A output"*_


----------



## bblue

Quote:

Hey Bill, how would you say the stock 5700U compares to a Radeon with MP-1 Fitted?
That's a good question, Pete, and I think the answer would depend on what you're looking for in a card.


My 9800 Pro/MP-1 had a pretty good display, but I was constantly bothered by noise and image artifacts that were actually being produced by the ATI. They were most obvious on HD source, not DVD, but once you recognized them you could seem then on good DVD as well.


The 5700U without an MP-1 is sharper, has better detail, truer color and no artifacts that I've noticed yet. I expect it to perform better yet after I install the MP-1 tonight.


How much you actually notice and appreciate these differences will depend a lot on your projector setup and general viewing conditions. They're both very good cards, but with a well tuned projector and critical eye there are noticeable differences.


A lot of us around here have this disease called iwantitifitsbetter-itis and even small improvements are significant. With bigger improvements we can't sleep at night without them. So it depends on how bad you've got IT. 


--Bill


----------



## jaz50y

VGA switches are recommended here and there in this thread (an many others), but I have yet to see a switch box specifically recommended by name. I have heard that they can cause problems though. Since I want to use a Momitsu along with a Dish 6000 to a Barco 808, and both have VGA out, I could really use a switcher. So does anyone have an actual recommendation?


----------



## Belcherwm

Doug,


Kind of scary that we have the same setup.


I use this automatic video switch .


The only problem is that I had to put my Momitsu on a seperate power source. Both the 6000 and the Momitsu put out a signal even when they are "off". Killing the power to the Momitsu brings up my 6000.


----------



## Squinty

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*Hi,


On the V880N VIM here is a quote from the Momi site:


"You can connect your V880N with your VHS, Game box, LD,

Camcorder or any other sources and convert analog to

digital DVI signal.*"


Not very interesting for any of us CRT users. Sorry to spoil

the rage 



Greets,

Reinhard*
But it has component input! Then outputs analog RGB over DVI-I! If it's not limited to 480i/p, that means (to me at least) bye-bye transcoder, bye-bye HTPC, hello single box solution. I don't really care about video streaming (though iTunes support is nice), but if the video input module works well, I'll be getting a v880n.


-Bob


----------



## Budget Pete

If it does convert to analogue on the DVI, then they had better make a lot of them, as that is going to be one hot box...any indicative pricing yet?


----------



## Don Rombach

Doug,


I use a Linc Xcel 2way manual VGA switch to swap between the Momitsu and HDTV sat rec. The switch is rated at 266mhz and works very well. Cheap also.


----------



## cerulean

Doug,


I just won an Extron 202rxi on Ebay that I'm hoping to use as a switcher between my Momitsu and my HTPC. I also wanted the extron for the centering controls and the line driver circuitry.


Bob


----------



## jaz50y

Thanks for suggestions - Glad to know about the problem with automatic switching, guess manual won't be any greater problem than working out a separate power solution.


Extremephono shows the V880N at $399. It is still not clear to me if an analog signal out exists other than component - Extremephono says it can, Momitsu's web site says no. So I am going with the V880 for now.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Bob,


Quote:

_Originally posted by Squinty_
*But it has component input! Then outputs analog RGB over DVI-I! If it's

-Bob*


Uhm, I think you missed my point  Here are the key words


"convert analog to digital DVI signal"


If it can only convert analog (what input type doesn't matter) to

DIGITAL DVI out, its worthless, since a CRT PJ doesn't have a DVI

input (and its good old analog technology anyway ) board.


I have been giving the KISS DP-608 (at least as far as the info

I have seen on the web ) a good look. This DVD player uses

Sigma Designs EM8620L which has some darn interesting

capabilities.


Don't get me wrong I really like my Momi and (with the exception

of the remote -- it really is a worthless piece of junk) I would buy

another product from them. However, comparing the 880N to the

DP-608, I think I'll jump a generation. If Momi ever puts out a player

on basis of the EM8620L, I'm a buyer 



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Squinty

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lightningman_
*Hi Bob,


Uhm, I think you missed my point  Here are the key words


"convert analog to digital DVI signal"


If it can only convert analog (what input type doesn't matter) to

DIGITAL DVI out, its worthless, since a CRT PJ doesn't have a DVI

input (and its good old analog technology anyway ) board.


Greets,

Reinhard*
Hi Reinhard,

From the specs page for the V880N ( http://www.momitsu.com/dvd_880nspec.html ):

----

Video Output Terminals

NTSC/PAL 4:3, 16:9 Progressive Scan.

Composite RCA output x1

S-Video x1
*DVI-I* x1, support 480p, 720p, 1080i output

Component (Y/Pb/Pr) x1, support 480p, 720p, 1080i output

SCART output x1 (Option for European market)

----

DVI-I outputs analog RGB along with digital. DVI-D outputs digital only.

I guess we won't know for sure until the unit actually appears. 


-Bob


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Bob,

Quote:

_Originally posted by Squinty_
*Hi Reinhard,

DVI-I outputs analog RGB along with digital. DVI-D outputs digital only.

I guess we won't know for sure until the unit actually appears. 


-Bob*
Yes, I know DVI-I has analog output, but -at least the way I read it  -

("to digital DVI") the transcoder only seems to encode analog input to

digital output. This could very well be possible since you would need to

encode analog to digital and then back to analog. I'm not sure a 150Mhz

ARM can handle two -more or less- simultainious transcodings. My 200

Mhz ARM Palm has problems with handling GPS naviagtion (it runs under

full load) and a dual transcoding in real time is a lot more complex 

(not to forget the scaling, motion detection and pulldown)



Sigma makes so many interesting ICs, but you never get any kind

of electronics info (block diagrams, pinouts, etc) and that kinda sucks.


And, yes I totally agree with your last comment 


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Auric

Quote:

I'm not sure a 150Mhz

ARM can handle two -more or less- simultainious transcodings
I hope they use a kind of DSPs and RISC Processors to to that job, probably the the ARM is for the OSD and other Stuff 

Quote:

I guess we won't know for sure until the unit actually appears.
Thumbs UP 


The KISS Guys where always one of the first with a new Sigma-Chip, sadly I've never read anything good about the Video-Quality of their Products... 


Let's wait a litte bit, the Summer has just begun, with all the BBQs and the Beach (Freibad/Strandbad) so it's a little Time to the dark and cold Autum and Winter evenings with a good Movie on the Screen.


Greetings Auric


----------



## bblue

After having fully upgraded a Momitsu V880 and seeing what it is capable of with these upgrades, I wrote a document describing in detail the procedures I used.


I hope this will be helpful for those planning to upgrade. It's a pretty impressive player with the changes, and I don't compliment easily!


This is a single Adobe Reader PDF file, but is about double the size (1.1mb) of what can be uploaded here, so use this URL instead. It will open a reader on your machine while downloading, and you can save a copy in the reader.

http://nada.netoldies.com/momitsu-instruct-L.pdf 


--Bill


----------



## garyfritz

Bill, I assume just the power supply changes would be worthwhile, even if someone isn't ready to spring for an MP-1?


Wonder if Momitsu will learn from this, and improve their design in future products?


----------



## Belcherwm

Bill,


Very nice write up and guide. Thank you.


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Bill,


Quote:

_Originally posted by bblue_
*After having fully upgraded a Momitsu V880 and seeing what it is capable of with these upgrades, I wrote a document describing in detail the procedures I used.

--Bill*
VERY nice description of the mods! (usually I'm not that easy to

impress )


A few things in addition:


1:


I personally haven't used silver solder for electronics much. I positively

despise the new fangled "lead free" stuff. It doesn't flow as well as

leaded solder and isn't good at floating off impurities. To get rid of

the rosin, you can use pure rubbing or even denatured alcohol. Just

vigourously scrub the soldered areas with an old toothbrush.

Afterwards blow dry with clean compressed air. If you (meaning

follower modders here ) are good at soldering you won't be able

to tell the difference between the factory and the homebrew solder

joints.


2:


You use two tantulum caps on the PSU mod. Personally I REALLY hate

tantulum caps. Since they aren't that large (capacitance and voltage

wise) I would rather go with some MKP or MKS caps here. In a pinch

electrolytic caps of the same capacitance with an additional 100nF in

parallel would also work.


3:


Loved how you mounted the MP-1 to keep the leads as short as

possible. The only additon I would make is to install an additional

support (plastic standoff maybe) at the front of the MP-1 (in the

middle of the PCB) for some added stability.


4:

The Momi PSU uses an interference suppressor circuit common

to a lot of SMPSUs, which I don't really like. Here's the part I'm

talking about (after the mains choke):



Line --- ||--*---||--- Neutral


*connects to the chassis


Now while these are special Y2 caps, this effectivly connects the

chassis to the mains (and therefore everything, including minus

of the output of the PSU) through the caps (AC "resistors")


While I haven't gotten around to testing this, I would most certainly

guess that if this interference filter is lifted, you should get a cleaner

output on the secondary supply lines. I don't know if you have given

this some thought or tried it .



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Bill,


Drat!, I knew I forgot something 


While thinking about some more ways to mod the Momi PSU,

I was thinking of adding a dedicated LC filter to each supply

line to keep the high frequency noise away from the mainboard.

This would require a bit of hacking on the PSU side. And I haven't

decided if it would really be worth the effort, since I haven't

gotten around to checking the filtering on the mainboard itself.

So just some food for thought and comments 


Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## bblue

Gary,

The PS mods and wiring changes do help in terms of noise in the video, and the improvements can most easily be seen on a large screen. On smaller screens, say below 60" or so it might be hard to notice. When noise is removed, images (especially solid color types) appear more detailed.


I'd say that the PS and wiring changes are less significant than the video buffering of the MP-1 and bypassing of the switcher chip.


Reinhard,

1. I agree on the type of silver solder you are describing -- it is awful to work with. However, the product I'm using is not lead free but a lower lead content mixture with silver added. It's very nice to work with, much better than standard solder. What rosin it leaves behind is very light in color and is easily cleaned with denatured alcohol. I just use q-tips and avoid all the other mess of trying to whole-board clean. If there's any coloration left from the q-tip cleaning, it will easily rinse off with regular isopropyl alcohol. Either way, the board and connections look like new.


2. Note that the tantalums are in addition to .1's added in parallel to the existing electrolytics. But even with that combination there are often frequency gaps in bypass coverage, and that's where the tantalums come into play. I don't use them often, but where I want a very low impedance across a wide frequency range they seem to be unbeatable.


3. My original plan was to have a standoff like you describe, but the MP-1 is so light and the clips and flow soldering so strong, there just isn't any need for it. I used the same approach mounting an MP-1 to a 5700U with just one clip. It was also quite strong with no further need for support.


4. Yep, I saw those and agree with you. I never have seen the total logic of floating a chassis midway between hot and neutral. So far at least, I haven't noticed any side effects from it, though I would expect some if one was using unbalanced RCA audio connections along with standard video outputs -- not necessarily in the video, but rather the audio. Those are there primarily as a safety issue and I'm not at all sure what might be a suitable substitute for an inexpensive power supply like this. Usually, you would change the design and make the whole unit a grounded chassis.


5. The Sigma board seems pretty well designed and is inductor isolated before local filtering on each supply leg coming into the board. While kind of a minimalist design, the Momitsu PS is inductor isolated and filtered on each of its DC legs from the power source. That's primarily why I only added HF control components on the output legs. They were doing nothing in that regard.


The MP-1 is already pretty immune to noise entering through its DC converter, but I added an inductor between it and the Momitsu PS mostly to isolate it from producing any noise that would get back to the Momitsu. It's a switching type DC converter and looks like it could produce noise of its own back into other components if you weren't careful.


When you get a chance to probe around in there, let me know what you think.


--Bill


----------



## stefuel

I knew if I waited long enough someone would take the time to find a better place to connect the MP-1 to the Sigma board other than just behind the DVI connector. For the average DIY person, I still like the Hitman22 method of mounting the MP-1 to the Sigma board (metal

stand-off with star washers) on the front corner. No soldering and you still get the benifit of the two boards being grounded together.


Bill, How much better do you think the image is using your connection points for the MP-1 vs the connections at the back of the DVI connector to the MP-1? Thanks,


Chip


----------



## bblue

Chip,

At 1080i it isn't a huge difference. In fact depending on the display, some might not like it quite as much. The output at the DVI connector is through a set of unterminated inductors which seem to be causing some ringing which give you a little edge to the image that looks like sharpness but isn't. My takeoff point doesn't have that ringing, and at first glance looks a little less sharp, but has more detail.


As the sweep rates increase beyond 1080i with custom settings, the differences would be significant because that switching chip is busy falling apart at the higher rates.


--Bill


----------



## Gaber

Bill,


Thanks for documenting the momitus mod. I just received my Momitsu and am eagerly awaiting my MP-1 mod kit. I have noticed an excessive amount of vibration though with my unit. The vibrations seem as if the dvd drive is not balanced. Is this amount of vibration normal for this unit? What have others observed?


Gabe


----------



## smddoc

bblue, you must be in the telecom industrie, I noticed you used bridging clips as a fastner for the mp1


----------



## jcmccorm

Bill, although I've been following this thread, I had somehow missed the link to your Momitsu modification guide until now.


It's great! Thanks for the hard work in developing the modification as well as preparing such a nice document. That's one for the archives.


Cary


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

Quote:

_Originally posted by Gaber_
*I just received my Momitsu and am eagerly awaiting my MP-1 mod kit.*
Where do I go to order the mod kit? The Wisdom Tech web site still says that the MP-1 is not available as a DIY product.


----------



## Gaber

This was from a different thread. Not sure how to link a post.


Gabe

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*Sorry it has taking me so long to get back on this. I will make the MP-1 available for DIY. The cost for the DIY version of the mod will be $250.00.


It will be made available with (attached) 12" RGB cables, five 75 ohm BNC bulkheads (not attached to the cables). It will not come with the BNC plate, that is standard on the regular MP-1.


Shoot me an email for more info (see below).


-------


Chris,

yes, the MP-1 and the MP-1.3 are basically the same circuit.


I can't comment on using a MP-1.3 with a standard video card, because I've yet to try that. The mold has successfully been transfered to another card by many, but if you need to have that done log onto my website near the beginning of next month, and you'll find a link to where to send it.



I've been very busy, and I'm also bent on getting the MP-5 finished.*


----------



## Budget Pete

Re vibration, I re-mounted the DVDROM mechanism using thin 'rubber' washers/spacers that I got from a computer store. It seemed to solve the probem and reduce the audible noise.


----------



## bblue

Thanks for the comments, guys, I hope you might it useful.


smddoc, yes in a past life I've done a lot of punching and bridging. Kept an extra bag of the clips and punch down tools for around the house -- turned out to be quite handy!


Gabe, I haven't noticed any particular vibration out of the mechanism in mine, except if the DVD (or label on it) is particularly out of balance. There may be a resonance caused by a certain speed of rotation of the disks and the damping of the existing rubber mounts. Just changing the density of the rubber can make quite a difference (noted in other players and external DVD ROM's, not in the V880).


I have noticed that at least my particular V880 DVD ROM has trouble consistently reading DVD-R's and will skip or stutter from time to time, or in worst cases just stop playing on one or two. The same disks in my HTPC play perfectly. It's unknown to me if this is a known issue or it's just my V880 drive, but either way it needs a replacement of some sort.


--Bill


----------



## mp20748

Bill,

this is simply amazing. dang, and I thought I was good at this stuff.


-------


Luis,

keep you eye on my website. Soon there will be a link to where the MP-1 DIY can be purchased.


----------



## Luis Rodriguez

Cool. Thanks. My 880 arrived last night. Haven't hooked it up yet but I'm anxious to do some A/B testing against a very un-optimized, novice built HTPC. I'm guessing that I'm going to need the MP-1 to drive my 25ft VGA cable though...


----------



## jaz50y

Just got my V880 and ran it into my Barco Graphics 808. Hey, 8 is my lucky number too! Anyway, even with a quick & dirty adjustment of the CRT, pq at 720p is better than my old Pioneer thru a DVDO doubler. But, when I try 1080i the colors are all off, and there seem to be dark bands across the picture. Suggestions?


----------



## gn2

Phase adjustment on your projector, thats my guess.


----------



## jaz50y

OK, I'll admit I have no idea what that means. Is it something I can correct either on the Barco or on the Momitsu?


----------



## jaz50y

Also, don't suppose anyone has a ccf for the Momitsu remote?


And custom resolutions for BarcoGraphics 808?


----------



## A/Vspec

Doug, I have a 808s and I am thinking about getting the 880N and wanted to know if you think the picture is sharp enough? Also are you using the DVI or Component output @ 720P?


----------



## Lightningman

Hi Doug,

Quote:

_Originally posted by jaz50y_
*Just got my V880 and ran it into my Barco Graphics 808. Hey, 8 is my lucky number too! Anyway, even with a quick & dirty adjustment of the CRT, pq at 720p is better than my old Pioneer thru a DVDO doubler. But, when I try 1080i the colors are all off, and there seem to be dark bands across the picture. Suggestions?*
We will have to clarify the problem. What is it that you are seeing?. You

say the colors are off in 1080i. Do you mean the color temperature or

do you mean out of convergence?


You can adjust the following on the Momi:


- brightness

- contrast

- saturation (maybe this is what you are looking for ??)


In the secret menu, you can really dig into the output parameters.

Look for a program called "cr4v880". A forum member made this

program. You can find it here: h t t p:// www.component.se/ 



Also please note (at least my findings) that 1080i tends to be a

bit soft. That is the colors and the edges of objects tend to blend

into one another.


You may (sorry not a Baro expert) want to whip out a test DVD and

pull up the pluge, convergence and Mhz testing patterns and re-align

your Barco specifically for 1080i (use a new memory) as you will need

a much tighter convergence on 1080i. I have noted that the 6.75Mhz

pattern is a bit fuzzy coming from the Momi, whereas coming from the

PC it is easy to distinguish the individual lines.



Greets,

Reinhard


----------



## jaz50y

Mark - even with just a rough adjustment of size and position, the V880 looks better at 720p than my Pioneer 414 thru a DVDO V2. I use the DVI out with a VGA adapter to Port 3, same port I run my Dish 6000 into.


Reinhard - The color stuff is a little hard because I am color-blind, but it is definitely messed up. The convergences is fine. The bands are like transparent black stripes on the picture, that it is the picture has different areas of horizontal lightness and darkness. I read elsewhere now of others with problems at 1080i. But I will get the program and try some of the custom settings. Also will flash the new firmware today.


Thanks!


----------



## secstate

jaz50y,


Do you have an S model 808 or a regular "plain" old 808. I have a plain old 808 (I haven't hung my "new" 808s yet) and I am using port 5. The older Barco's non-S have issues with positive synch which is the default of the Momitsu. The tolerance for positve synch on port 5 seems to vary by 808 to 808. For example I couldn't get 720p or 1080i to work on my 808 without using a custom resolution to provide negative synch. Others with plain 808 report no problems. I have read that color issues and other things can be caused by the Barco not likeing positive synch. If you are using an older 808 I would try a custom resolution with negative synch or use port 3 which should accept either positive or negative synch.


secstate


----------



## jaz50y

I use port 3 on plain old 808, which automatically detects synch, so no problem (Port 4/5 is used for standard TV after DVDO doubling). I still am not clear on how to get custom resolutions, and have asked on the DVD Player forum in the thread about the cr4v880 program, which I have downloaded. I don't know what are the parameters best to put in the program for the Barco, tho.


----------



## dokworm

Wow, just got the MP-1 up and running on the momitsu, along with the other mods following the excellent instructions here, and as a first look, there is a real improvement. I have borrowed Pete's stock momitsu so that I can AB properly and will play more tonight, but at the moment it looks very strong. More later.


----------



## jaz50y

I learned how to do the custom settings, and tried 1280x720 at 72hz for my Barco 808, which works great, if perhaps a little edgy. More tweaking needed, also want to compare at 60hz. I also tried 1920x1080 at 60hz, but just got noise. I used negative synch, confirmed that Macrovision is off, and installed latest firmware. Does anyone have a clue about the 1080 setting (even tho I think I will stick with the 720)? As desribed above, it is a non-S 808, and I use port 3, the VGA port.


----------



## misohorny

Quote:

_Originally posted by dokworm_
*Wow, just got the MP-1 up and running on the momitsu, along with the other mods following the excellent instructions here, and as a first look, there is a real improvement. I have borrowed Pete's stock momitsu so that I can AB properly and will play more tonight, but at the moment it looks very strong. More later.*
dokworm,

Are you using the contact points for RGB in Bill's guide to connect the MP-1? For a more interesting A/B is it possible to tack some 75 ohm BNCs on short coax lengths to the same points in the "unmodified Momitsu", along with any other mods you have done. You could also set the MP-1 to unity gain and A/B the output voltages so we are comparing apples to apples.

Any "night and day", chalk and cheese", "blown away by the difference",

"more detailed blacks" "clearer 3D image" comments from you would convince me that the MP-1 is a must have.


----------



## Budget Pete

Dok has my player and is planning to do just that!

He followed Bill's guide to mount the MP-1.

-pete


----------



## jaz50y

If anyone still uses the original Phillips Pronto, I put a very simple ccf up on Remote Central for the V880, including buttons with the custom setting and region access codes. Tip for anyone programming a URC: setup did not work the first time I tried it, so I duplicated the command since it seems to take so long with the original, and that did the trick.


----------



## gn2

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting a Pronto ccf on remote central, thats great !


----------



## jaz50y

While I'm here, any other Barco 808 folks who can't get 1080i to work with the V880?


----------



## Biggus

News Flash**


Another release date for the new V880n *cough*


"Dear David:


V880N will be shipped from Taiwan from June 30 and should take two weeks

arrive to our distributors.

MSRP for V880N is $399USD.


Best Regards,

Momitsu Customer Support"



Sure, we believe you


----------



## dokworm

OK Misohorny, this one is just for you 


This is how I tested.

We hooked up an almost plain Momitsu and a MP-1/bblue modded momitsu side by side on our calibrated 20" Barco monitors at work (They have 75ohm RGBHV connectors on the back and are used for colour grading film).

That way we could run them side by suide, so dodgy human memory plays no part. Both monitors are calibrated to be identical so no differences there.

We used a DVI to 15pin High density VGA adapter, and a barco breakout cable on the unmodded momitsu, and extremely high quality 60cm (2ft) cables on the modded unit.


Result:

1) Adding the MP-1 to the Momitsu along with the other mods posted by Bill (bblue) almost qualified as a 'night and day' improvement. Not quite, but it is an instantly noticable improvement. Better colour, sharper image (not sure why), less noise and just more punch.


We got all the film techs and Inferno operators upstairs to have a look, and they all preferred the MP-1 modded picture on the movies we had running side by side. No one was told which unit had been modified.

The MP-1 was noticably better on the test patterns mainly where colours where hard up against each other. Two thumbs up! I wouldn't want to go back to the standard Momo. Had trouble convincing some that it was coming from DVD. Very nice!



Next we pulled Pete's momo apart (haven't told him yet...sorry pete) and just did the bblue power mods and other mods on the site and added BNC connectors to his momitsu - ie. everything except the MP-1 fitted. And connected it using another set of identical 75ohm cables to the MP-1 modded unit. As per Misohorny's request. We sed the connection points outlined in Bills guide. (Maybe there is a better point to connecto to? I don't know)


We fired it up and Pete's momitsu didn't work. Opened it up and rechecked the connection, then for some reason we had to reset it up again in the menu's as the incorrect output was specified. Not sure what happened there.


2) This time the difference was much more subtle. Side by side movie playing, nobody could seem to tell the difference. All except two people thought they looked identical. Unfortunately, both of these people picked the opposite unit as looking better - go figure.

This was all done with the 'boost' off as we are running short cables.


On on the test patterns, there was some improvement with the MP-1. For example when red was bordering on blue - the edges were more defined.


So, no 'night and day' difference second time round.Sorry Miso.


Lastly took both units home and tried them on an NEC 9PG+ using 3m (10ft) high quality cables onto a 3.5m(12ft?) wide toroidal screen. Couldn't see any difference on DVD playback with the two modified units. But can't a/b directly as I don't have 2 projectors so you are always working from a memory of what you just saw...No one inthe family saw a difference on Superbit 5th element. I used MP-1 without using the boost. No-one in the room had a preference between the two watching LOTR ROTK in PAL.


Result.

Well, it was limited testing. Short cable runs and small (but exquisite) screens for the most part.


Opinion:

If you really have the spare cash then get a momitsu and MP-1 combo. it is very very good and I really doubt you would want a PC for playing back DVD after seeing this. If you have an MP-1 on your Radeon currently, I would seriously consider tearing it off and fitting it to a momo if you mainly watch DVDs.


If you don't have the spare cash, then I'd get a momitsu and just do all of the mods and fit BNC connectors. The difference is well worth the effort, and I think would be visible even in a very average Home theater setup, and the mods are cheap and easy for anyone that can solder well.

Unless you are a videophile and have everything else in you HT perfect, I don't think you will see the difference between your newly modded momitsu and an MP-1 modded unit, and the output will be better than 99% of HTPCs out there and a LOT less hassle.


Now if you have a long cable run, then the results may be entirely different and the boost of the MP-1 may be a good thing for you - I can't say as I haven't tried it.


Personally I decided not to keep the MP-1 in my Momitsu, (I have now taken it back out and don't miss it after doing the other mods) as the rest of my setup isn't 'hard core' enough to notice the difference anywhere except on test patterns, and then only if I really look for it.

If you have a fully calibrated G90 or something really well setup then it may well be the thing for you. If you have run out of other ways to improve the image then I would also go for it. Either way you can make the Momitsu into a real performer if you wanna get the soldering iron out.


Thanks to Pete for lending me his Momitsu and letting me potentially wreck it, and to Bill for his great instructions, and to Mike for Making the MP-1 in such a way that it can be added to damn near anything!


If anyone has any other suggestions for improving the MOMO, bring them on, I am always happy to risk my gear in the name of improvements for all!


----------



## Belcherwm

Great post dokworm. Makes me feel good about my unmodified V880.


----------



## dokworm

It shouldn't!  If it does, then re-read the post!


I would defiantely modify your Momitsu to have BNC connectors and the other mods posted. The difference is very noticable, and it costs almost nothing.


When I took the 2 momos home to compare on my PJ, one had all of the upgrades except the MP-1, and other had all the upgrades PLUS the MP-1. I'm not sure if that was clear.

But even stock it does put out a nice picture.


----------



## Penn

Momitsu is lot quiter than any HTPC I could build. I wish it has a decent remote control.


----------



## Azzad

Very nice work Dokworm and very carefully performed comparison. The stock Momitsu is very good as you have said but it can certainly be improved by bypassing the filters and tapping to the RAMDAC output. I'm not at all suprised at the lack of difference you saw between the MP1 and a straight BNC connection.


Now I'm going to say some things about the MP1 and hope that we can discuss this openly and objectively. If it helps to support my case I'm an Electronics Engineer with extensive experience in Radio Frequency design and Techniques (Up to 12GHz) and low noise, wide bandwidth analog circuitry.


For quite some time now I have been modifying HTPC video cards for use with CRT projectors. The technique I use is to disconnect the filters and take a 75 ohm coaxial feed directly from the 75 ohm terminating resistor at the RAMDAC output. The other end of the coaxial cable connects to 75 ohm BNC sockets. Nothing unique - others have been doing this also. The improvements are very noticable and the image has much better punch and no ghosting or ringing with good cables. I have also measured the output impedance of cards that have been modifed this way and it is exactly 75 ohms out to 100+ MHz.


Given that the output of the RAMDAC is 75 ohms it is perfectly suited for driving 75 ohm coaxial cable of any length, a buffer amplifier with a 75 ohm output impedance is also just as capable. Nothing is gained by buffering a 75 ohm output - unless some gain is wanted and that is a separate issue. An amplifier also has the ability to introduce noise and distortion, but if well designed these effects would be very small.


In examining some pictures of the MP1 mod it seems that the connection to the video card is made with single core unshielded wire about 2" long. This is not the ideal method to pass a video signal of 200Mhz+ bandwidth, the resultant impedance at the end of such a wire is nothing like 75 ohms at high frequencies and a buffer amplifier is necessary to isolate this non-ideal impedance from the video cable. One of the benefits of a buffer amplifer is the reverse isolation. This effect is able to isolate the output from impedance mismatches at the input. Connecting a high quality buffer amplifer to the filtered output from the VGA connector offers the same improvement and will reduce ghosting due to the correct impedance being used to drive the cable (something that others have noticed using an Extron buffer). The correct method of connection is a 75 ohm coaxial cable with very short exposed wires attached directly to the RAMDAC output.


Now the MP1 includes some filtering also, however I would question the value of such filtering. The bandwidth of most middle to high end CRT projectors is around 100MHz. If the frequency of the filtering on the MP1 is outside this bandwidth then it is removing noise that is not processed or visible on that projector. Conversely if the filtering is within the bandwidth of the projector it can remove noise but also detail from the image. A filter isn't able to selectively filter noise and pass signal of the same frequency. The output of the RAMDAC on video cards is very clean, however there are sampling artifacts at 350 MHz and up. These are well outside the bandwidth of any projector and do not impact the image quality.


There is no doubt that the MP1 offers significant improvements in image quality, however in my view the exact same improvement are available without a buffer amplifier and at much lower cost. The MP1 uses a connection method to the video card that is very simple, but at the same time justifies the need for a buffer amplifier. If you need the extra gain to drive certain CRT projectors with a 1V input then the MP1 does offer this advantage. Used with quality cables over distance up to 60" a boost is not required for most projectors with 0.7v inputs.


Aaron


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Azzad_
*


Now I'm going to say some things about the MP1 and hope that we can discuss this openly and objectively. If it helps to support my case I'm an Electronics Engineer with extensive experience in Radio Frequency design and Techniques (Up to 12GHz) and low noise, wide bandwidth analog circuitry.


For quite some time now I have been modifying HTPC video cards for use with CRT projectors. The technique I use is to disconnect the filters and take a 75 ohm coaxial feed directly from the 75 ohm terminating resistor at the RAMDAC output. The other end of the coaxial cable connects to 75 ohm BNC sockets. Nothing unique - others have been doing this also. The improvements are very noticable and the image has much better punch and no ghosting or ringing with good cables. I have also measured the output impedance of cards that have been modifed this way and it is exactly 75 ohms out to 100+ MHz.


Aaron*
Well, as an electronic engineer with such experience with video cards and DAC's you should know that once you remove the filters, there will be an overshoot in the high end of the signal. In other words, a sweep pattern would have excessive gain (over 100 IRE) in the 6.5mhz range. This overshoot without the filters is distortion, with the filters in, the pattern would be 100 IRE even out to 6.5mhz. This is not really noticed by the inexperienced, mainly because it is interpreted as sharpness. Dokworm is not the only person that has done an A/B comparison using the MP-1 to a unit that had the filters removed with BNC's. There are aproximately six (6) very highly experienced and regarded engineers who has also done the same comparison. All six have purchased the MP-1, all six are still using it. And some has even purchased additional MP-1's from me, so this comparison is not new, and as far as I'm concerned, the MP-1 has been expertly evaluated by highly qualified engineers, and they have even sent me the scoped pictures. Second, the DAC was not designed for long cable runs, and that is the purpose for a buffer. the problem with most buffers is that they induce noise. That is where the MP-1 shines, it is virtually noiseless. Plus you'd have to explain the reports that says that it produces better blacks and a much cleaner signal. Neither of these virtues can be accomplished with or without the filters on a video card, mainly because the noise (hash) from the DAC effects the blacks and clarity of the signal. So let's understand something here, sharpness is subjective, but clarity is not. The MP-1 is a clarity mod. And after three years and many satified customers (and many of them has also removed the filters), at this point, there's no need for me to get into a discussion on the mod. I've always said that it's not for everyone.


Keep in mind that there's a real purpose for the filters. Without them, you'll surely have distortion - who wants distortion?


----------



## dokworm

I should say I ran 75ohm coax directly when modifying the non-MP-1 momitsu, as I didn't have any of the same wire used on the MP-1 mod. I don't know if this changes anything as we are talking a really really short length.

I thought the comparison with MP-1 added to Momitsu was actually something new?


----------



## pasey25

Quote:

_Originally posted by Azzad_
*In examining some pictures of the MP1 mod it seems that the connection to the video card is made with single core unshielded wire about 2" long. This is not the ideal method to pass a video signal of 200Mhz+ bandwidth, the resultant impedance at the end of such a wire is nothing like 75 ohms at high frequencies
*
Mike, is this correct? does the MP-1 not use 75 ohm co-ax onnections between the card and the MP-1 board?


----------



## bblue

It typically uses about 3" of single conductor wire, not shielded. As this short length is terminated at each end by a 75 ohm shunt, there are no significant effects (visual or seen on a scope), and at 37.5 ohms above ground it isn't at all susceptable to picking up noise from adjacent circuitry. Though of course it makes sense to keep the conductors away from such sources.


--Bill


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by pasey25_
*Mike, is this correct? does the MP-1 not use 75 ohm co-ax onnections between the card and the MP-1 board?*
True, but there was no need to use coax at such a short distance. Nor did the card manufacturers use coax from the DAC to the VGA connectors, Why is this?


There are several ways to determine if the impedance is off. One is evidence of ringing or ghosting in the image, the other is placing a scope probe at the point of signal, at the highest useable scan rate look for a hump in the signal. Both of these are confirmed non issues with the MP-1.


The MP-1 has been tested and is in use on some of the best video cards and systems out there...


Now, do I need to prove that I can make a system better?


Ok, at this point I've still not proved myself... It's time for the MP-5


----------



## Azzad

Quote:

Well, as an electronic engineer with such experience with video cards and DAC's you should know that once you remove the filters, there will be an overshoot in the high end of the signal. In other words, a sweep pattern would have excessive gain (over 100 IRE) in the 6.5mhz range. This overshoot without the filters is distortion, with the filters in, the pattern would be 100 IRE even out to 6.5mhz. This is not really noticed by the inexperienced, mainly because it is interpreted as sharpness.
Mike firstly are you suggesting that the output of the DAC is not flat with frequency? This certainly isn't the case - the DAC is a very wide bandwidth device that sources a variable current through an external 75 ohm shunt resistor. There is nothing in the design of a Video DAC or any DAC for that matter that causes a rising frequency response. The filters that are present between the DAC and the output connector are Low Pass Filters that act at approximately 100MHz. The role of these filters is to filter the sharp rising edges (high frequency information) that come from the DAC output. These edges are filtered to reduce potential Radio Frequency radiation from poorly shielded monitor cables and thus non-compliance with Electromagnetic Compatability (EMC) regulations. I believe in the US this is called FCC compliance.


You mention excessive gain in the 6.5MHz region. This is the bandwidth of a standard interlaced video signal. The typical signal from a video card is 100 to 200 MHz wide. I run my projector at 1280x720x75Hz and at this rate each pixel is presented (pixel clock) at a rate of 90+ MHz. To faithfully reproduce such a high resolution requires at least 90MHz of bandwidth and should really be double this figure for full pixel representation. I'm sure the MP1 is not applying any filtering at frequencies as low as 6.5MHz otherwise the image would have very low detail.


You mention that the onboard filters reduce overshoot. I would actually expect quite the opposite. A filter can be designed to have a flat frequency response and a smooth rolloff outside the cutoff frequency, however if the component values are altered slightly the filters alignment suffers and there may be peaking in the passband. The components used on a video card for the filters can easily be 10 to 20% off value and cause peaking or other symptoms from filter misalignment. This is seen in practice when looking at the performace improvement with a 5 BNC card. There isn't an increase in sharpness, there is a reduction in ringing and artificial edge enhancement and the image becomes more detailed and smooth. I'm sure the MP1 offers the same results due to the removal of the onboard filters.

Quote:

It typically uses about 3" of single conductor wire, not shielded. As this short length is terminated at each end by a 75 ohm shunt, there are no significant effects (visual or seen on a scope), and at 37.5 ohms above ground it isn't at all susceptable to picking up noise from adjacent circuitry. Though of course it makes sense to keep the conductors away from such sources.
Make no mistake about it, the signal from a video card is a high frequency Radio Frequency signal and needs to be carried along a transmission line (coaxial cable) that matches the characteristic impedance of the source (75 ohms). That 3" long piece of wire has an inductance of 89nH, well that may not sound like much but at 100Mhz that equates to a reactance of 56 ohms!. On a crude model that equates to a 5dB reduction of signal at the end of that wire in a 75 ohm system at 100MHz. If the input to the MP1 is a 75 ohm impedance - I bet it is- then that 3" length of wire is just like putting an inductor in series with the input and gives a first order low pass filter with a corner frequency of about 95 MHz. Well there is some of the filtering right there. There is also capacitive effects between the wire and ground that will cause resonances and other nasty effects. The issue isn't the potential for noise pickup it is the inductance of that piece of wire.

Quote:

True, but there was no need to use coax at such a short distance. Nor did the card manufacturers use coax from the DAC to the VGA connectors, Why is this?
Well in fact the video card manufacturers do use 75 ohm transmission lines to carry the signal from the filters to the connector, not coax of course because it is a PCB, but 75 ohm striplines. By placing a PCB track of the correct thickness and distance from a nearby groundplane the track can have an impedance of 75 ohms. There are internal layers in the video card PCB that are grounded and very close the the top and bottom layers - this enables a reasonably fine track to have a 75 ohm impedance. The other technique that is used on video cards is Co-Planar microstrip. This is a bit like flat coax with a thin track down the middle and a heavy ground track on each side - even my 9200SE has this snaking across the board from the filters to the connector.

Quote:

the DAC was not designed for long cable runs, and that is the purpose for a buffer. the problem with most buffers is that they induce noise. That is where the MP-1 shines, it is virtually noiseless.
Is there a special characteristic that makes a circuit suitable for driving a long legth of cable a high frequencies? You bet there is, the source signal must have an impedance that matches the transmission line - this will give the maximum energy transfer and a minimum of reflection due to impedance mismatch. The output of the RAMDAC is terminated in a very small 75 ohm resistor that is very close to the RAMDAC. I mention the short distances since this minimises the inductive effects I mentioned earlier. The impedance at that 75 ohm resistor is exactly 75 ohms and holds at that value for at least 100MHz if you connect to it correctly with 75 ohm transmission line. The method used for connecting the MP1 to the video card does not give a 75 ohm impedance over the 100+ MHz bandwidth and a buffer amplifier is necessary to give a source with a 75 ohm impedance suitable for driving the cable. If you have a 75 ohm source you gain nothing with respect to the ability to drive a long cable if you buffer this signal. Don't be fooled by thinking about the capacitance of a long piece of cable, this is balanced out by the inductance of the wire used to construct the coaxial cable to form an infinite chain of series inductors and parallel capacitors that gives a 75 ohm resistive impedance at all frequencies(Basic transmission line theory will teach you about this).

Quote:

Dokworm is not the only person that has done an A/B comparison using the MP-1 to a unit that had the filters removed with BNC's. There are aproximately six (6) very highly experienced and regarded engineers who has also done the same comparison. All six have purchased the MP-1, all six are still using it. And some has even purchased additional MP-1's from me, so this comparison is not new, and as far as I'm concerned, the MP-1 has been expertly evaluated by highly qualified engineers, and they have even sent me the scoped pictures.
I have spent a lot of time reading AVSforum (too long I think) and I can't recall another comparison done as objectively as that done by Dokworm. If other comparisons have been done and the results published then please somebody find the links as I'm sure it would be useful information in this discussion.

Quote:

Plus you'd have to explain the reports that says that it produces better blacks and a much cleaner signal. Neither of these virtues can be accomplished with or without the filters on a video card, mainly because the noise (hash) from the DAC effects the blacks and clarity of the signal.
As an engineer I would rather that there was an explaination given for these effects rather than subjective observations - as the designer you should be able to offer an explaination. I scope the outputs of my cards and have never seen a video card that can't produce a full black, it's a matter of correctly adjusting the overlay controls of course. I also own a Milori Colorfacts Display Analyser and have repeatably been able to obtain the correct gamma characteristics with both modified and standard video cards. You mention the noise (hash) that is present at the DAC output, if this noise is visible then it is within the bandwidth of the projector and the video signal - surely filtering visible noise will also filter and remove image detail. The RAMDAC is typically clocked at about 350 MHz, there is a component of this clock in the output of the RAMDAC and I can image that filtering this out would be good practice, however it is well outside the bandwidth of any projector and will very quickly be filtered by the input staes of the projectors video amplifier chain. Likewise the clock signals at 350 MHZ are not able to produce noise in the image displayed by the projector.


I really don't doubt the performance of an MP1 and given the improvement that it offers for the price it could be considered good value. However a correctly executed coaxial feed directly from the RAMDAC with a 75ohm coaxial cable and no buffer amplifier will give equal results at a much lower cost. The elimination of a buffer amplifer also has the potential of passing a higher bandwidth signal with even less noise and distortion - since an amplifer no matter how good must always introduce a finite level of distortion and noise. In practice these differences would be likely to be invisible.


I've been asked if I could make a post describing the fitting of a 5 BNC mod to a video card. Although I sell and modify cards like this as a business I'm willing to do this and will post within a day or so. It is fiddly work that I perform under a Stereo Microscope and not for the faint hearted, but some of us (me included) get a kick out of doing it yourself. If anything it will demonstrate a lot of the techniques I have discussed and raised here.


Aaron


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Azzad_
*


I've been asked if I could make a post describing the fitting of a 5 BNC mod to a video card. Although I sell and modify cards like this as a business I'm willing to do this and will post within a day or so. It is fiddly work that I perform under a Stereo Microscope and not for the faint hearted, but some of us (me included) get a kick out of doing it yourself. If anything it will demonstrate a lot of the techniques I have discussed and raised here.


Aaron*
Next time. if you have something that you'd like to sell to the forum, just make the post. But don't attack a potential competitor by trying to prove that you're the God of video, and that if things are not done the way you say it should, it's done wrong.


Show a little courtesy here, It's not good to promote oneself by trying to step on someone else. And why should I waste time to prove something to you? If you want to impress me, you'll have to solder more than BNC's.


----------



## Azzad

Mike,

Quote:

Next time. if you have something that you'd like to sell to the forum, just make the post. But don't attack a potential competitor by trying to prove that you're the God of video, and that if things are not done the way you say it should, it's done wrong.
None of my comments are intended as an 'attack' of a potential competitor, rather a frank and technical discussion of the merits of various methods of taking a video signal from a RAMDAC. I'm quite willing to describe how to do the the mod in an open forum and let others try it for themselves. How you can percieve this as an attempt to sell is unreasonable considering you are not willing to describe the MP1 circuit yet quite freely post the benefits that it offers.


Mike I have alot of respect for your work and have used ideas that you have presented to further my knowledge and application in Home Theater. In fact the MP1 mod was what made me look into the whole idea of direct connection to the RAMDAC and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has followed this path. I've also changed some of the capacitors in my NEC based on the modifications you posted for the ECP projectors with good results. I'm not trying to prove myself as the'God of Video', I'm just trying to encourage some discussion about a topic that is very interesting to a lot of people given the current popularity of the Momitsu and HTPCs.


Aaron


----------



## mp20748

Aaron,

at our next gathering, I'll once again compare a very good quality video card with BNC's connected directly to the DAC (no filters), to the same make and model video card with attached MP-1.


This has been done a many times, plus it has been confirmed by my technical evaluators, who are highly qualified engineers. We'll make the comparison on a well tweaked and modified Marquee 9500LC. I'll also bring my scope.


My friend Doug is going to love this, I'll keep you posted on the date after I can get him on the schedule.


We'll let the attendees comment on the end results. I promise I'll only use one disk out of my AVIA PRO set to prove my point.


----------



## stefuel

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*True, but there was no need to use coax at such a short distance. Nor did the card manufacturers use coax from the DAC to the VGA connectors, Why is this?


There are several ways to determine if the impedance is off. One is evidence of ringing or ghosting in the image, the other is placing a scope probe at the point of signal, at the highest useable scan rate look for a hump in the signal. Both of these are confirmed non issues with the MP-1.


The MP-1 has been tested and is in use on some of the best video cards and systems out there...


Now, do I need to prove that I can make a system better?


Ok, at this point I've still not proved myself... It's time for the MP-5*
How the heck am I going to stuff a MP-5 into a 880N?


Chip


----------



## misohorny

Dokworm,


Very interesting results - although not surprising.


Mark Forster got the ball rolling by suggesting removing filters in May, 2000 :



Quote:

Hi!


I've just upgraded to the new Elsa Gladiac (GeForce 2) board, and it has one very disappointing issue. I'm not sure if this would be noticed on a CRT or not, but on a D-ILA, you can very clearly see that Elsa had a tougher time getting FCC approval, and as a result, the RFI filters are too "strong", softening the edges of the video. Fixing this isn't hard for someone with soldering experience (you remove three caps, and shunt across three inductors), but it is annoying. Out of the box, the Elsa Erazor X2 definitely is quite a bit sharper. After removing the filters, I'm sure that the Gladiac will be the sharpest yet. Anyway, folks probably ought to know about this one...


Best Regards,

MarkF



I'm sure the enigmatic AVSforum member KBK, had been dabbling but he always liked to keep his expertise to himself, in August of 2000 he spilt some of the beans:

Quote:

There was a dramatic improvement in the quality of the picture from my HTPC (GeForce 256 6600 64 meg Pro card) when I removed the inductors on their RGB outputs, and jumpered the spots on the board, and placed BNC connectors on the chassis with small wires soldered to the appropriate points on it's HD15 connector. In this way, I had a bandwidth 'opened' connection, run with five separate BNC terminated dedicated Video cables.


When this sort of thing is done, the gap narrows considerably. When they finally make one of these things with a decent output amplifier with the right voltage so as to make use of the dynamic range capacities of a projector's inputs, then you will have something to really compare with.


I should be using an external buffer amp, with a modified cable set up. but I haven't come across a Extron buffer amp cheap enough yet...



Things got exciting for a while............


----------



## JVanderwalker

Is there a special characteristic that makes a circuit suitable for driving a long legth of cable a high frequencies? You bet there is, the source signal must have an impedance that matches the transmission line - this will give the maximum energy transfer and a minimum of reflection due to impedance mismatch. The output of the RAMDAC is terminated in a very small 75 ohm resistor that is very close to the RAMDAC. I mention the short distances since this minimises the inductive effects I mentioned earlier. The impedance at that 75 ohm resistor is exactly 75 ohms and holds at that value for at least 100MHz if you connect to it correctly with 75 ohm transmission line. The method used for connecting the MP1 to the video card does not give a 75 ohm impedance over the 100+ MHz bandwidth and a buffer amplifier is necessary to give a source with a 75 ohm impedance suitable for driving the cable. If you have a 75 ohm source you gain nothing with respect to the ability to drive a long cable if you buffer this signal. Don't be fooled by thinking about the capacitance of a long piece of cable, this is balanced out by the inductance of the wire used to construct the coaxial cable to form an infinite chain of series inductors and parallel capacitors that gives a 75 ohm resistive impedance at all frequencies(Basic transmission line theory will teach you about this).






Aaron [/b][/quote]


As an electronics / microwave engineer with 23 years of experience up to frequencies of 50 GHz I can tell you that a long length of coax needs to be equalized to have flat frequency response. This is basic transmission line theory.

Jim


----------



## kaanage

In that case, wouldn't you have to tune the output device to your cabling?


And at what frequencies do these non-linearities begin to present themselves (say with 75 ohm Beldin coax, or some other brand if you have figures for them)?


----------



## Azzad

Quote:

As an electronics / microwave engineer with 23 years of experience up to frequencies of 50 GHz I can tell you that a long length of coax needs to be equalized to have flat frequency response. This is basic transmission line theory.
Sure this is certainly the case if you want a flat transmission line at microwave or UHF frequencies. The loss of coaxial cable increases exponentially with frequency. I'd say that for the resolutions and bandwidth of most CRT projectors we are talking about a signal that is from DC to 100MHz for transporting RGBHV to our CRT projectors. Some high end projectors have a bandwidth of 150MHz.


Over a typical 30ft run of high quality cable like Belden 1505A there is 0.75dB loss at 100MHz. This is quite small in comparison to the frequency response errors in the video chain of the projector. It is possible to add a small amount of boost at high frequencies to compensate for these losses however they need to be configured correctly for the length and type of cable used. In practice most simple cable compensation filters introduce excessive peaking and can cause false sharpness and edge enhancement.


My understanding of the boost jumper in the MP1 is that it gives the buffer amplifier a small boost in gain at all frequencies, rather than a peak at high frequencies to compensate for cable losses. Mike could confirm this.


I'd prefer to have a video system that is wideband, yet rolls off smoothly at high frequencies.


I hope that it didn't seem that I was describing a new technique for taking the video signal directly from the RAMDAC. This certainly isn't new and others have been performing this modification for many years as the posts above show. It is important though to make this connection with coaxial cable that is grounded to the board and has the shortest possible leads.



Aaron


----------



## dokworm

This stuff is great, I thought I knew stuff before reading this 

It would b great if Azzad could bring a modified card that he has done that is the exact same model as a card fitted with the MP-1. Fully scoping both and A/B ing them on a tweaked 9500 would result in us all learning a great deal about this stuff.

Azzad, thanks for sharing your thoughts and expertise - A lot of people here will be interested in a post from you as to how you modify cards I'm sure.

If you were in my country, I'd send you my momo to play with.


So would you be better off using shilded mini coax to connect BNC connectors to the Momitsu and/or Grpahics cards?


And Mike, don't be too touchy, I think like a lot of us, we would like to learn more about the MP-1 and discuss what makes it tick, I don't think it is an attack or an ad imho. I think the hackers among us will always have a go ourselves and the non hackers will still line up to buy a finished product regardless. I don't think anyone doubts your skills, amn I'm sure you will not lose any customers, and there is always a waiting list to buy an MP-1 it seems anyway!


I love this site, barely a week goes by where I don't learn something new.


----------



## pasey25

dokworm, Azzad is in Perth, Australia


----------



## Azzad

dokworm,


I thought you were in Australia also - or is it the wrong 6 months?


Thanks for the offer of the Momitsu to play with, but I have boxes of them I'm an Australian distributor.


Yes you should be using shielded mini coax for the connections, have a look at:

http://www.aztron.com.au/images/closeup1.jpg 


Sorry about the flux everywhere it was cleaned up after the soldering. You will also note that I have cut pins 2, 5 and 11 of the P15V330Q, these are the outputs of the switch that run to the RGB pins of the DVI-I connector. They have been cut so that when DVI is selected in the menu only the coax is connected to the RAMDAC.


A good source of 75 ohm mini coax is a monitor extension lead or computer monitor cable.


The Momitsu with Power Supply mods and a direct coax feed from the RAMDAC is an awesome machine that really does compare well with a good HTPC.


I'm also working on a Momitsu 5 BNC mod with an inbuilt 5 BNC switch, when the Momitsu is off it passes through the signal from the inputs. This is required for my own personal setup since I have a HTPC and a Momitsu and only one input on my NEC 6PG Xtra.


As always you do any of this at your own risk and you can't assume that I have described everything right - just a disclaimer.


----------



## stefuel

docworm,

I can't believe you did not try it with the jumpers ON. I reported and Mike confirmed that the output V of the Momitsu was on target however, the image was greatly improved in the area of sharpness and color with the jumpers on. I found this on both long and short runs (3 and 50 foot runs).


Azzad,

If you read this thread from the beginning you will note that I have planned a high bandwidth switch for the Momitsu to do exactly what you are going to do. The problem that I found was that there was not an easy way to control the switch as Nothing I found on the Momitsu actually turned off with the power button but went into standby. In standby the sync signal stays active screwing up the NEC's ability to autodetect the active signal you want. I have not had the time to investigate this further, so I have added a NEC ISS 6010 switcher to handle it. To my surprise, the 6010 does a very clean job of switching sources and gives you input's to spare.


Chip


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by dokworm_
*


And Mike, don't be too touchy

*
Yeah, but I've always had problems with arrogant engineers. They have always been a problem, because they are not open minded enough to understand that theory is not the absolute. I'm a technician, I have many year of fixing problems that was built into a device because some engineers did not mature beyond theory. I still remember the days being on the telephone trying to convince one that the circuit is not working, while they're arguring with me that based on the diagram, it should work fine 


I understood Assad's intent, I disagree with his method of communicating his intent. He was totally tackless. And most seasoned engineers know that tack is very important. For instance, there are a ton of very seriously smart and extremely sharp engineers on this forum. Please note that you can't even tell who they are, you can't even get an argument out of them, that proves that they're seasoned. And the seasoned ones know to not present themselves as know-alls, because they have learned that technically theory will not prove right in every situation. Yes, you would be surprised at how much these humbled guys has helped me since being on this forum. Every mod that I've produced they've been involved in the end results one way or the other. There are some very sharp individuals on this forum.


What really amazed me is that I was told that the MP-1 could not make an improvement and would not be necessary for a video card. While at the same time, it seemed like Christopher Columbus had came back from the grave to write a three page dissertation on "How to connect BNC's to a video card" and that he wanted to gather the masses, and share this great discovery.


----------



## Budget Pete

I just got my Momitsu back from the Dok, and I can't say I m upset by what he did to it  I wish everything I lent to people came back improved!

I'm not sure why he didn't do it with the jumpers on, maybe because MP and others here always talk about not adding anything to the signal if you don't need to to keep it pure? And it has been stated over and over that the jumpers are for long cables.


I am now interested in testing the audio capability of the unit via the optical out. I am going to see if I can borrow some of the gear from where I used to work to actually measure the jitter on the output to see how it compares. Keep the improvements coming people!


----------



## Azzad

Mike


Personal comments aside, what concerns me most about your post is that you have suggested that the correct behavior for an Engineer on this forum is to keep quiet and not discuss technical matters openly. This attitude and response is potentially very destructive to the communication of knowledge on this forum. I have had a large number of responses via PM from other forum members regarding technical matters that I raised in my earlier posts. These people did not feel comfortable making their comments publicly because of this very attitude. Others have said to me privately that there should be more of this open technical discussion on AVSforum as it has been very interesting and educational. Like most I have strengths and weaknesses in my knowledge and experience, nothing I have said is gospel and comments from other persons which agree or dissagree can only improve the information presented.

Quote:

What really amazed me is that I was told that the MP-1 could not make an improvement and would not be necessary for a video card.
Whats so amazing about this comment Mike? Dokworm performed a very careful comparison and came to a similar conclusion. He was careful to be very scientific and conducted a well controlled experiment.


A large number of participants on AVSforum are technically minded (especially on the CRT forum) and will gain a greater appreciation of the MP1 if you were to explain in technical terms the benefits and mechanisms in the MP1 design. You are correct that there is a lot more than theory involved in a sucessful product. However dwelling on the subjective observations of those who have used the MP1 and responding to a purely technical discussion with an attack of anothers character is not going improve knowledge and communication on this forum nor help anybody appreciate the MP1.


Aaron


----------



## luke_3891

Myself and a few of people here know Azzad in one way or another and i can tell you he is in no way an arrogant engineer or person for that matter.


I dont know enough to enter the technical side of this debate but i will add this. Basically from what i can see, he is just putting across his point and wanted to discuss this subject without the attacks which is whats happening right now. I can tell you now, he is in no way attacking you. Lets just keep discussing it in a nice manner.


Azzad said this in his first post,


"Now I'm going to say some things about the MP1 and hope that we can discuss this openly and objectively"


He wanted to do is discuss things such as, i think, why some certain things on your product didnt have the highest quality parts or wanted a reason why some things are needed on the card, but i could be wrong, ill let him answer that. Also just discussing things about the card in general.


Also, just because some extremely sharp engineers dont discuss things means they are seasoned. Most of the time its because they dont want to let out their secrets, which is totally fine by me because you guys in the end have to run a business to make money, and to do that is to not let anyone know what your doing. Also they could be very busy guys, but i wouldnt know. But guys such as Azzad who discuss things like these topics which very techinical, does that mean he isnt an extremely sharp engineer? i dont think so. Whether he is or not i dont know but i do know he really knows his stuff in electronics by the sounds of it.


To me sometimes it sounds like your trying to defend your product with all the talk about whether its a fair deal for what you get out of it, which is understandable, BUT, you keep saying how all these customers and your engineers say it out does these other BNC type mods. Of course i dont have anything against or undermine your engineers, not for a sec, but if you give figures, if there is any such thing without seeing it the product in full flight, you should post them to prove what you are saying. It seems you get really touchy when guys do know there stuff though as i have read a few threads when regarding your product, which as i said, i understand, but i think people want proof when they pay large sums of money like that.


I do believe you when you get a nice clean and noise free picture, but i think many people are wanting to know whether your card is worht it if a BNC does the same thing. I know you have commented (i think) on a few occasions your card has been put up against a BNC type mod and it has come on top but could you please post some results or anything to prove that please? Please avoid saying how you have the best engineers and how many satisfied customers you have etc and show the proof! If you dont show any (thats if you can), to me it seems all your doing now is just letting your status do the talking for you, as you are a really well regarded man in this field. For all i know as im a non-tech head in this field, to me it seems your trying to hide something, maybe because you know there tehre isnt a difference or very little??? I honestly wouldnt have a clue. But if you clear the air, im sure you would put many skeptics to rest. I know you may say you dont have anything to prove as, but im sure this time many would like to see the proof in the pie regarding this, so please, if you can, or if you like, post some interesting results 


You may think im attacking you Mike, but im not. Im just reading what has been written and have responded to let you know he is in no way attacking you. Lets just keep it a happy and technical conversation, because its interesting to read 


Anyhow, keep up the discussion guys, its good to listen to you tech heads discuss interesting things like this, even though at the moment i am having troubles understanding it all.


Regards,


Luke


DISCLAIMER: I am not affliated with Azzad in any way, i only know him by a group of CRT enthusiasts and Digital hehe.



Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*Yeah, but I've always had problems with arrogant engineers. They have always been a problem, because they are not open minded enough to understand that theory is not the absolute. I'm a technician, I have many year of fixing problems that was built into a device because some engineers did not mature beyond theory. I still remember the days being on the telephone trying to convince one that the circuit is not working, while they're arguring with me that based on the diagram, it should work fine 


I understood Assad's intent, I disagree with his method of communicating his intent. He was totally tackless. And most seasoned engineers know that tack is very important. For instance, there are a ton of very seriously smart and extremely sharp engineers on this forum. Please note that you can't even tell who they are, you can't even get an argument out of them, that proves that they're seasoned. And the seasoned ones know to not present themselves as know-alls, because they have learned that technically theory will not prove right in every situation. Yes, you would be surprised at how much these humbled guys has helped me since being on this forum. Every mod that I've produced they've been involved in the end results one way or the other. There are some very sharp individuals on this forum.


What really amazed me is that I was told that the MP-1 could not make an improvement and would not be necessary for a video card. While at the same time, it seemed like Christopher Columbus had came back from the grave to write a three page dissertation on "How to connect BNC's to a video card" and that he wanted to gather the masses, and share this great discovery.*


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by Azzad_
*Mike


Whats so amazing about this comment Mike? Dokworm performed a very careful comparison and came to a similar conclusion. He was careful to be very scientific and conducted a well controlled experiment.


Aaron*
A proper comparison would not envolve the Sigma chip in the Momitsu. That chip is not qualified to be the reference for a proper test and comparison. If you look back into this thraed I've made it clear that I would not get into modding the Momitsu. It's not considered a high performance product, you're an engineer, you should know better to use the Sigma chip in a comparison for performance. I own a Momitsu. I could have saved you and Dokworm the wasted time of using a low end processor to validate the performance of a product.


And since all test are subjective, when did we start taking the opinion of a single (and unknown) person to validate truth of a product?


So no, the test was not a careful comparison. It was just an OPINION!!!!


The MP-1 was been in use for the past three years, it does not need the opinion of Dokworm, or your non-standard methods of validating a product. Certain things MUST be in place to perform these test. it's obvious that you guys are totally unaware of this. The MP-1 has already proved itself. And it has done it over and over again.


Now, you'll need to have patience and wait for the real test, when the comparison is performed before others, and it is done using high end video cards, professional test software. And if you want, send one of your video card inventions, that have the BNC's soldered in under a microscope.


I would really like to prove what happens when you project an image on a well tweaked high end projector, without any filters on the output of the DAC. And I'll also provide scoped pictures to show you what happens at the other end of the cable at 960P/72 when using tset patterns inside of AVIA PRO.


Let's do the comparison right, send me your invention attached to either a (Built By) ATI 9500, 9800 or Gforce 5700, 5950.


BRING IT ON!


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

_Originally posted by luke_3891_
*


"Now I'm going to say some things about the MP1 and hope that we can discuss this openly and objectively"


You may think im attacking you Mike, but im not. Im just reading what has been written and have responded to let you know he is in no way attacking you. Lets just keep it a happy and technical conversation, because its interesting to read 



Luke

*
Assad must have a pretty powerful crystal ball to be able to make such definative comments about a product that he has only seen from a picture.



We started out with removing the filters from the video cards. At that time we were doing the 32 meg ram ATI's. The card produced a sharper image with the filters removed, and it worked well on low end projectors. but when used on better quality projectors or projectors that could achieve a tighter focus, we were getting noise in the image. This noise was not that much of a problem on low grade cables, but with a better grade cable, the noise was a problem. When scoping the signal, the signal took on a harsh edge on the test patterns. It was a sort of ringing, it was really noticed by Doug (my friend who helps me with this). The resolution patterns would show this ringing or dancing pixel thing, it did not look good on my 9500LC or Dougs 8500. I spoke with an engineer that I use to work with about this. He told me that the noise could be coming from the DAC on the card or it could be from the rails in the PC itself. We trashed the idea after that we we knew that there was no way to control the noise, especially if it cannot be isolated from the card or PC itself.


The MP-1 was the idea of Tim Martin. it was initially designed to provide an onboard circuit on the PC card that would boost the signal. It was to do the same thing that the Extron was doing. So we designed a circuit to boost the signal, and it worked well, so we continued testing unitil we were challenged to filter the signal after it leaves the card, and that way we would have a better chance at blocking the noise, so we added filtering to the circuit. We tested it at Dougs and on my 9500LC. the lower noise and sharper picture was great, and that was the start of the MP-1.


----------



## misohorny

I think my questions have been answered.


Dokworm has performed an A/B comparison using the sub-optimal Momitsu outputting to a sub-optimal display device.

Understandable, after all, the topic of this thread is the Momitsu.


I use a Sony 1272qm, another sub-optimal display device, not a tweaked high performance CRT.


Both Mike and dokworm seem to agree I don't need a MP-1 because I don't have the equipment to warrant it; as long as I use BNC connectors, and thanks to Bill's guide a better point at which to source the signal.


Ignorance is bliss, I hope I never see any of those dancing noise pixels .


----------



## dokworm

Quote:

_Originally posted by mp20748_
*you should know better to use the Sigma chip in a comparison for performance. I own a Momitsu. I could have saved you and Dokworm the wasted time of using a low end processor to validate the performance of a product.


So no, the test was not a careful comparison. It was just an OPINION!!!!


The MP-1 was been in use for the past three years, it does not need the opinion of Dokworm, or your non-standard methods of validating a product. Certain things MUST be in place to perform these test. it's obvious that you guys are totally unaware of this. The MP-1 has already proved itself. And it has done it over and over again.
*
I eagerly await the real test! I can't get enuf of scope charts, and close up screenshots, call me a nerd but I love that stuff. Any time frame on the big test?


But seriously Mike calm down a little I aint attacking, so please don't attack me. I am just taking some of my personal time out to try out some products and report back my findings for discussion for the good of all of us here.


I personally don't think my test was 'wasted time'. People in this thread are fitting MP-1s to Momitsus, so I thought some testing would be appropriate and useful.

I am not trying to validate the MP-1 as a standalone product, but validate an MP-1 when added to a Momitsu. I think that was pretty clear and what a lot of people in this *momitsu* thread are interested in. If you want to say the MP-1 isn't a good fit for the Momitsu then that would be good to know (I'm not at all clear what your opinion is as to wether fitting the momitsu with an MP-1 is a good idea or not?)


I think my test was a pretty careful comparison, even if not a purely scientific test. I haven't seen anyone else use calibrated monitors to run images side by side so that the images can be compared directly rather from memory.

I agree that my test wasn't a 'technical' comparison as we didn't scope outputs etc. but did have a room full of people who make their living out of working with images comparing, so it wasn't just purely my opinion - but we did use eyes and not test equipment apart from the screen calibration, and I don't think I gave the impression that it was otherwise. The monitors we are using are extremely high quality and are used for all our regrading and colour matching work for feature film.


Criticising my test methods is fine, but saying "*The MP-1 was been in use for the past three years, it does not need the opinion of Dokworm, or your non-standard methods of validating a product.* " is just plain rude  Can we keep the discussion to the merits of the equipment and procedures?

You say that the MP-1 has proved itself 'over and over again', and seeing how you don't go in for 'opinion' based proofs, can you point us to the threads with the technical tests showing its magic? Before and after scoped outputs, close up screenshots showing the better resolution/clarity etc. after the mod and so on. I haven't really found anything other than opinion on the search, but I am admittedly poor at finding stuff here, so I would love to see the proofs laid out with the standard testing methods.


I'm not being facetious, I really want to see them, I love this technical stuff, and many times in the past I have learned a lot by seeing a scientific breakdown of before and after, and can see it once pointed out.



So please please please point me to the posts where the MP-1 has had the gamut of scientific tests and the results.


Cheers


-Pete


PS> Personal opinion, If I had endless cash or didn't like doing it myself I would fit the MP-1 to my momitsu in an instant. I think my test showed it was a very easy and good way to improve the image quality on the momitsu. It also showed that there were other ways to improve the image quality as well, but the MP-1 is an easy drop in upgrade for anyone that can solder. (edited to improve my poor spelling)


----------



## dokworm

BTW Azzad, sorry for not noticing you were in Oz as well, even if you are 4000km away from me 


BTW. I think it's time to put your posts where your mouth is.  How about a new thread detailing how to fit BNCs to a VGA card as per your experiments?


Also, can you recommend anywhere in Oz to pick up shielded mini coax?


----------



## stefuel

I hope we're back on track here. 20 pages, over 14,400 views and over 375 replies without any problems. This is one of my most popular threads and I'd like to see it stay civil. If anyone deserves to be reamed for the crazy idea of modding the Momitsu with a MP-1, it's me. I had plans for the Momitsu shortly after it was reported in the DVD player forum that it output analog RGBHV and had custom resolutions available. The original idea was to go the route of just BNC's off the DAC. A few years ago I had the pleasure of a couple of phone conversations with Mike at which time he shared some of the MP-1's secrets . I tucked away what I could remember in that mass of defective gray matter that lies within my brain for later use. So, as I was going to drive a 50 foot cable it occured to me that the MP-1 with it's boost option would do exactly what I wanted. Now I'm going to put in my .02 worth. But before I do, I'm going to say something that may not sit right with a few people. Sometimes you just can't explain it. The best equipment can't test for it. Things just happen. The Momitsu scoped out by the numbers should be just fine on short runs on it's own or with the MP-1 "NOT" in the boost mode. Well, I don't care what the equipment says. I don't care what the experts say. The final test is my own two eyes.

My own two eyes say that the MP-1 does make a great improvement, but ONLY in the boost mode and this is for short runs as well. I'm not a tech and I don't play one on TV but my eyes know what they like and it's the MP-1 in boost mode.


Chip


----------



## Azzad

Dokworm


I will do a post in the next few days describing how to fit BNCs to a VGA card, it's nothing new and I certainly didn't invent the idea myself. Probably the advice I can offer that will be useful is to describe how to locate and connect to the RAMDAC output. Work commitments will mean that this will have to wait until the weekend.


I'd also like to post my method for attaching to the Momitsu, since this is a Momitsu thread. I'm working out some of the details of the onboard switch configuration with bblue since we each have a slightly different perspective on the the wiring of the switch. It will be better to sort these details first before posting.

Quote:

Also, can you recommend anywhere in Oz to pick up shielded mini coax?
You can purchase RG179 coaxial cable from either Rojone or Huber and Suhner Australia. But I believe the best source is to strip a high quality monitor extension lead.


Aaron


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## dokworm

I didn't think of monitor cables, there is probably a ton of it downstairs in the tech bay - I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.


And to all my apologies. I've been flooded with PM's and my mailbox overflowed. It now has space.


----------



## kaanage

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*The Momitsu scoped out by the numbers should be just fine on short runs on it's own or with the MP-1 "NOT" in the boost mode. Well, I don't care what the equipment says. I don't care what the experts say. The final test is my own two eyes.


My own two eyes say that the MP-1 does make a great improvement, but ONLY in the boost mode and this is for short runs as well. I'm not a tech and I don't play one on TV but my eyes know what they like and it's the MP-1 in boost mode.*
But you aren't comparing the boosted MP-1 with what Azzad is describing - the way the MP-1 is connected to the DAC is NOT the way Azzad is describing as the optimal way to do so and he details in one of his early posts in this thread why it makes a difference and why the MP-1 buffer/booster amp circuit gets around the problem that the MP-1 connection method causes.


----------



## dokworm

That's cool Stefuel, if your happy with the image then that it was matters for you regardless of how you get there.

I find I am always happy with the image until until somene then shows me if you just did this.... Then I get all tweaky again 


But I still am really interested in all the past data from when the MP-1 has actually been fully tested before - I am learning heaps from this thread and hope to learn more!


----------



## bblue

Aaron,
Quote:

The output of the RAMDAC on video cards is very clean, however there are sampling artifacts at 350 MHz and up. These are well outside the bandwidth of any projector and do not impact the image quality.
I don't believe that just because this frequency (or another, depending on the RAMDAC) is out of the normal video processing range of a given projector, it is necessarily a non-isse. It could be a non-issue, but it also could be a very significant issue depending on the projector and the design of the analog video stages. It can cause noise, snow, ghosts that look like EE and other such things depending on the frequency, intensity, cable length and monitor.


A good rule of thumb is if it's not 'significant' video information, it doesn't belong on the feed to the projector or monitor and should be filtered out or at least attenuated as far as is practical.



On a different subject, about coax runs -- what is your opinion of, let's say a coax to BNC output run, which originates at the proper place in the video output card (equivalent to chassis level) might extend as much as one foot to the BNC's which are chassis mounted and each grounded to the chassis instead of being insulated? Since your shield is originating and terminating at chassis level does that length of coax differ in any way from one that goes to insulated BNC connectors and on to the external cable run?


--Bill


----------



## Azzad

Quote:

I don't believe that just because this frequency (or another, depending on the RAMDAC) is out of the normal video processing range of a given projector, it is necessarily a non-isse. It could be a non-issue, but it also could be a very significant issue depending on the projector and the design of the analog video stages. It can cause noise, snow, ghosts that look like EE and other such things depending on the frequency, intensity, cable length and monitor.


A good rule of thumb is if it's not 'significant' video information, it doesn't belong on the feed to the projector or monitor and should be filtered out or at least attenuated as far as is practical.
Bill, I agree that the clock signals would be best if removed, however in saying that I haven't noticed them causing any issues with the numerous displays I have seen running from an unfiltered card. This signal won't get very far in the video chain. Not to say that it won't affect some displays - good point.

Quote:

On a different subject, about coax runs -- what is your opinion of, let's say a coax to BNC output run, which originates at the proper place in the video output card (equivalent to chassis level) might extend as much as one foot to the BNC's which are chassis mounted and each grounded to the chassis instead of being insulated? Since your shield is originating and terminating at chassis level does that length of coax differ in any way from one that goes to insulated BNC connectors and on to the external cable run?
If you use a non-insulated BNC connector on the rear panel and a coaxial feed from the Momitsu video card you will be grounding the coaxial cable at multiple points. Because coaxial cable is an unbalanced transmission line this won't have any affect on the impedance or behavior of the cable. Using a non-insulated BNC connector at the panel does create multiple grounds and the potential for currents to flow in the in the outer conductor of the cable, these ground currents wuld be unrelated to the video information and could be classed as noise.


I have done the mods with both insulated and grounded BNC connectors, I'm currently using insulated connectors for my Video Card mods to eliminate the potential for ground loops. That said I haven't noticed any difference or additional noise when using non-insulated connectors and my Momitsu is modified this way.


It is important that you keep the joining wires to the PCB and the connector as short as possible to prevent impedance mismatches at high frequencies.


Aaron


----------



## misohorny

Quote:

_Originally posted by stefuel_
*MP-1 does make a great improvement, but ONLY in the boost mode and this is for short runs as well. I'm not a tech and I don't play one on TV but my eyes know what they like and it's the MP-1 in boost mode.


Chip*
Stefuel,

I have a extron 202xi, and I too see an improvement with a boosted signal on my Sony 1272, I find that whites and near blacks have an increased range when the input signal is boosted.


I relate this to the dynamic gamma response of the projector. I still haven't done n-th degree tweaking of gain, bias, G2 and searching the signal path for faulty (aged) components, but when I do I hope to get as good a picture at 0.7Vp-p as I do now at 1Vp-p. The fault lies in a poorly setup projector, or a projector which does not have enough adjustment to improve the gamma without outside assistance.

That is why people have been requesting gamma control in the firmware updates of the Momitsu.


I agree, boosting the signal is the quick fix, and the one I use also.


----------



## mrowley

FYI, quote from the Extremephono site:


"New: Starting from July, 2004, new revision of V880 ships with 2 sets of DACs, providing an improved component output (480P, 720P, 1080i) and simultaneous dual S-Video and component output, as well as a new and improved slim profile remote control with Lexan buttons"


Mark


----------



## stefuel

Miso,

This whole thread started when I made just that discovery. I too use the Extron for driving my long projector run. I connected my Momitsu directly to the Extron with a DVI/VGA adapter and a short VGA cable. The resulting image was soft and lacked depth, color saturation and detail. I decided to crank the output of the Extron and the resulting image was night and day. I assumed that the Momitsu couldn't do the long run on it's own so I brought it out to the projector and hooked it up direct with the same adapter and six foot breakout cable. It still looked soft as before. After installing the MP-1 (jumpers off), I saw no great improvment long or short run. But with the jumpers on I got the same improvement (long and short run) as I saw with the Extron cranked. There is something lacking in the stock Momitsu output (even if the voltage is correct), that the Extron cranked and the MP-1 with jumpers on, seems to correct. I don't know what it is and quite frankly don't care what it is. We're talking about a $250.00 dollar DVD player that can be used stand alone to drive a mid to upper end CRT projector for someone on a budget. Yes I'll aggree, this is not for the videophile with a 9" LC and a Farouda 5000. But for newbee Joe sixpack who just blew his wad on a used 8" projector not considering how to get a signal to it and discovered that a fair scaler and DVD combo or HTPC would set him back in the area of $1500.00, this becomes quite attractive. This was my incentive right from the start. A projector, RGBHV cable and DVD player. No scaler required. Wouldn't that be nice?


Chip


----------



## Fraza

1080P on Momitsu



OK, I've read through this thread and I only saw a brief mention concerning 1080P. I would like to try 1080P from my Momitsu. Has anyone tried this and if so what are the custom resolution setting that I need to input. This will be my first try at inputting custom resolution so any help would be great.



Andre


----------



## edsuski

I have pushed it to 960p, but I had to turn the refresh rate down to 48 Hz to get it to work. I do not think it can handle 1080p at 48 Hz (or higher). You might be able to get it to work at 24 or 30 Hz. Give it a try and let me know if it works.


I'm running my 9" CRT in 16:9 so 1080p is pushing it too high for that aspect ratio (4:3 maybe). What are you planning to use to display 1080p?


Ed


----------



## dokworm

anyone got a V880N yet?


----------



## Fraza

Ed,


I'm in the process of getting the parts to put together an Ampro 4600. I currently have a 3600 on ceiling and another for parts. I have yet to see 1080p so it's become a life's mission to see 1080P on the big screen. I once played around with one of Robert Wood's 4300 and I was very impress with the detail and how 3d the picture was, to tell you the truth I never got over that picture and I've wanted it ever since but I have to operator on shoe string HT budget (can you say wife). Do you think the new v880N will be able to handle 1080p. I plan to purchase one anyway so that would be an added bonus.



Andre


----------



## stefuel

Andre,

You may want to look in the DVD player forum for information on custom resolutions for the Momitsu. Are you trying to upgrade a 4300 to a 4600, or are you putting a 4600 together from scratch?


Chip


----------



## Fraza

Chip,


I'll check the DVD forum, thanks. I've come across enough parts to build a 4600 so I'll be using tubes from 4300 and the rest of the parts I need will come from one of my 3600. It my final adventure with building a CRT. If this doesn't work, I'll stick with my 3600 until the right DLP get built and has a reasonable price tag (long wait).



Andre


----------



## edsuski

Andre,


My understanding of the 880N is that it is using an ARM processor in its' core and is capable of scaling 1920 x 1080p. I'm not sure at what refresh rate.


The real question is - can your projector display 1920 x 1080p without overlapping lines? Very few projectors can do this in a 16:9 aspect ratio.


Good luck.


Ed


----------



## JerryBReed

I just got my 880v player today. How can I tell if I have the newest released hardware? Can anyone he tell me the difference? Many thanks to the group.


----------



## JerryBReed

I just got my 880v player today. How can I tell if I have the newest released hardware? Can anyone he tell me the difference? Many thanks to the group.


----------



## dokworm

go to the momitsu home page, and pick any of the worldwide dealers links - most have the latest firmware to download.


Now if only one of them actually had a V880N in stock - its feeling a little vapoury right now, and HD-DVD is starting to rear its head...


----------



## dokworm

My Neonuo player is in customs, so I should have it by the end of the week. Will investigate its quality vs the momo, and see about adding BNC connectors. I'll keep ya all posted.


----------



## Semisentient

So, what's the current opinion on which Momitsu to go with? 880V or 880DX?


I know there was some concern with the new Momitsu and it's compatibility with CRT projectors.


Thanks!


----------



## akdude47

My Momitsu works just fine, using it with a barco with negative sync at 720p.


----------



## fs123

There is actually a better option out now which is the I/o Data linkplayer 2. It does everything the mom does but has the new sigma chipset that allows hd wm9/divx/xvid. There is a loooong thred on it in the dvd player forum...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=459759


----------



## A/Vspec

Yea, but the question still remains: "Which one looks best on a CRT FP system?"


----------



## Joshua Snyder

well, since there is no RGB Analog out, (on the us version) AND there is no custom res menu, AND there is no macrovision defeat, I will have to stick with my trusty momitsu


----------



## Semisentient

Quote:

_Originally posted by akdude47_
*My Momitsu works just fine, using it with a barco with negative sync at 720p.*
Do you have the new 880V?


----------



## akdude47

Yes I do, I am sorry I forgot I have the 880DX or deluxe, I guess it is the newer version, with improved output on component, though obviously I don't use that. It also has the "newer" thin remote, which I hate, and a fixed loader.


----------



## Semisentient

OK, I have decided to go with the 880DX.


Anyone have any opinions on the best place to order one of the places listed on the Momitsu site? It's down to 2 places that have it in stock - Atacom and HKflix.


If anyone from Canada could tell me how much shipping ended up being, that would be great!


James


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## dokworm

Have there been any updates to the V880N firmware?


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## RolfHult

A new FW with Gamma would be nice


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## Semisentient

How about a sharpness setting while we are asking?


After recently seeing my Momitsu A/B'd with a good scaler (SDI RP82/Crystalio) I can see how this would be useful. Of course John (MC Maniac) has his scaler set so sharp I am afraid to get near his screen lest I get cut! 


James


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## MC Maniac

Quote:

_Originally posted by Semisentient_
*Of course John (MC Maniac) has his scaler set so sharp I am afraid to get near his screen lest I get cut! 


James*
With your *sharp* eyesight, you don't give me much choice..


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## RobertWood

John,


Just curious. Now that you have your Momitsu, how do feel it's picture compares with John's RP82/Crystalio (other than sharpness)?


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## Semisentient

Quote:

_Originally posted by RobertWood_
*John,


Just curious. Now that you have your Momitsu, how do feel it's picture compares with John's RP82/Crystalio (other than sharpness)?*
Did you mean James?


Anyways, I'll answer.


I would say that Johns setup (RP82/Crystalio) was noticeably punchier other than sharper. Perhaps an Extron or maybe a BNC output mod would help the Momitsu in this respect. At the time of our mini test, I noticed scaling artifacts on John's setup that were non-existent on the Momitsu. John has since found the cause of that with the Crystalio and fixed it.


Comparing the two, the only real differences I noticed were in the punchiness of the picture and the sharpness. John actually lent me an Extron to try, but I have yet to do so, so I can't say what effect that has.


We did our little test the day after I got the Momitsu and all I had done to it was punch in someone else's settings for 960P. Actually, I haven't done anymore with it since, except watch movies. There didn't seem to be much in the way of picture tweaking on the player's side according to the manual.


As it stands I have to say John's combo was easily the superior choice. If I try the Extron and it makes a brighter picture, I'll see if John want's to have another go at it. At that point I would be fully satisfied with the Momitsu as I prefer a smoother picture over a sharp one anyways. As it is I am very happy with the Momitsu.



James


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## RobertWood

Thanks, James. And excuse me for addressing you as John (I hate it when I accidentally do that).


Bob


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## JTX

I'm about to get one too. This is the older model, the V880. I assume it's basically the same as the V880DX? Or are there major differences? They do use the same chip, AFAIK.


-Janne


EDIT: Oh yeah, the thing I forgot to mention is that this player is called Brainwave DVD-V880. So it's not a Momitsu but I think there all the same on the inside.


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## gn2

Supposedly the newer version 880 has more/better video DAC's for the component outputs....


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## Semisentient

I just tried my Momitsu 880DX with an Extron 109E on my Sony 1292Q.


I almost can't believe the difference it has made.


Minimum contrast with the Extron is at least as bright as default (80) without the Extron. All this and black levels are do not seem elevated in any way.


My screen is white paint, 16:9, 110" wide. With the Extron now boosting the Momitsu I have light to spare. Adjectives that come to mind are: bright, punchy, vibrant...


Who said 1292's were dim?!?!


I am amazed. What can I say?


James


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## dokworm

Well, remember if you crank the brightness of the input, it has much the same effect on the tubes as doing it with the projector..


Re the other question, the DX is noticably better than the old v880 the moment you start playing a movie. I don't know what they did , but it was a big improvement.


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## edsuski

My understanding is the the DX model adds an additional DAC so that the component and S-Video do not share the same DAC. That is the only difference. I don't understand why someone would want to hook up both the S-Video and Component at the same time, but so long as you don't do it with the V880 (non-DX model) there should be no difference.


Keep in mind that you need to compare apples to apples and the firmware on the old V880 should be updated before you try to compare. I believe there was 5 or 6 (no cost) firmware updates made to the original version that shipped with the V880. The first couple were to fix bugs, but the last several were to actually add features and improve the output quality.


Ed


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## misohorny

For those that remember Aaron hinting at revealing details of his mods here is a post he made recently at CRT-OZ:



".....My method is similar to bblue . Leave the clamp diodes soldered on the

board, they don't affect PQ and help the RAMDAC survive a negative static

discharge on the BNC sockets. Completely remove the horrible P15V-330Q

switcher chip (cut the leads with a scalpel then remove the legs from the

PCB). Put 5 x 75 ohm BNC sockets on the rear panel and wire 75 ohm minature

coax (stolen from a monitor cable) from the BNC sockets (Red, Green and Blue) directly to the diodes. The braid needs to be soldered at each end,

at the diode end it goes to another one of the diode pins which is ground -

use your multimeter to find it. The sync Wires for H and V sync need to be

taken from the points described in the Bblue document.


The location of components are different for the V880 Deluxe and V880N, the

above instructions are valid only for the original Momitsu V880.


After mod only Composite and BNC outputs will function. The BNC output will

also carry the SVIDEO and COMPONENT outputs if these are selected since the

onboard switch has been bypassed.


I WILL TAKE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ERRORS IN MY DESCRIPTION

ABOVE AND/OR ANY HARM DONE TO YOUR MOMITSU OR ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT IF YOU

TRY THIS. Sorry for shouting but you do this at your own risk, but it has

worked for me and I wish you success........


Aaron"



My contribution to modding the Momitsu is that in my two V880s I completely removed the clamping diodes and the switcher IC (by flooding the legs with solder and lifting the chips with two soldering irons), and

I bridged the H and V sync signals and output them to one Sync BNC. So I only need four cables to my projector.


Cheers,

John


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## PAW

I've seen in another thread, probably in the DVD Player forum, that the DX has more memory also. The latest firmware for the DX will not load into the original version. I've seen a note to this effect on Momitsu's website. There are also rumbling that Momitsu might add gamma controls. I bet this will only be for the DX and N models. This also came from the DVD Player forum.


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## artoj

How high can you go with your Momi ? I used in my HTPC 1440 x [email protected] Hz for PAL but I canÂ´t use these settings in my Momi since for 1440 x 864 I canÂ´t go any higher Hz than 70 ! Is this normal


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## Jerry

Hi,


Thanks for the latest information, do you know where I can find out more about the MP-1 kit?



Thanks, Jerry


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## misohorny

Jerry,

Can I assume you haven't read this thread from the beginning? 


Cheers,

John


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## Jerry

Hi John,


You know, I "thought" I had read this entire post but got to confess I hadn't. My problem is that I start reading and then I see a link in a post and I take it and never get back to the original post.


Very interesting reading, I had thought about adding the bnc connectors to my Momitsu and it sounds promising.


Thanks, Jerry


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## WTS

Hi John, where is this crt-oz site. Sounds like it might be an interesting place to visit.


Thanks


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## misohorny

Walter,

CRT-OZ is one of the Yahoo! Groups.

You have to apply for membership and have your membership approved before you can post or view posts. Therefore the quickest way to make Aarons method available was to cut and paste it.


Cheers,

John


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## WTS

Hi John, Thanks for the info, could you tell me how to get to that site as it looks like an interesting site. You can pm me, thanks


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## Jerry

Hi



John (misohorny) did the modifications you describe in your post make a big differance? Also are you still running the momitsu thru the extron 202? One last request, do you have any picts you could post or email on your mods?



Thanks, Jerry


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## misohorny

Jerry,

Regrettably ,while I was doing the mods I didn't take any picture. Once the coax was soldered to the tiny pads the diodes sat on, I hot glued the area liberally so that there was no danger of tearing them from the circuit board while I connected the coax to the BNCs. bblues pictures show the components we are dealing with. The earth I used was the bottom left diode pad (appropriately there is a 75ohm surface mounted resistor between it and the signal pad which is the single pad at the top of the diode).
http://members.dodo.net.au/~jgharris/Image1.jpg 


I would say this is not for the novice solderer. I used two temperature controlled irons. The idea was to have all three solder points on the diodes molten and to lift them as if using tweezers. With the switcher IC I joined all the legs on each side with excess molten solder and once again lifted the IC out. Then by wiping the iron point over the contacts surface tension caused the solder to retreat so the ICs pads were not bridged.


Before this mod I already had BNCs via 75ohm coax connected to the analog contact points used by the DVI-I socket. The picture was already sharper and more detailed than a stock Momitsu.

After this mod the picture was more detailed and the gamma through my Sony 1272 seemed more linear, to the point where I have abandoned the Extron. The improvements were brought home when I was showing a friend IROBOT (Pal version), which I had already watched twice before this mod. I was surprised with the texture of the walls in the lift - I hadn't noticed it before. I was then mesmerized with the texture of clothing (Smiths black leather jacket looked fantastic), and the blemishes on actors (no names) faces, it all looked so real. Not to overstate it, the mod had made a noticeable improvement......... which was all I was hoping for.


N.B. I use BNCs exclusively, even setting up, I cycle through the video modes until the projector syncs to the signal. I have not checked how this mod has effected output via the other sockets at the back of the Momitsu.


Cheers,

John


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## Jerry

Thanks John and to several others as well for contributing to this thread. It will be a few days but I'll report back how it goes.


Thanks, Jerry


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## Jerry

Hi,


I'm getting closer, and again thanks for all the information and help, John and many others. My desire is to connect RGBHV BNC connectors and NO MP-1. From what I've read this should make an improvement in quality (though not as good perhaps as with the MP-1).


My question is about the P15V330Q switcher. Is it necessary to remove this for my application? Am I correct in reading the PDF file bblue has made available (thanks for the hard work) that it WASN'T removed?


Your help and input is much appreciated.


Jerry


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## misohorny

Jerry,

I worked on the theory, if it's not necessary, and it's not there, then it can't add noise, reduce the bandwidth, or drain some of the signal strength.


I removed the switcher and the diodes because they aren't needed to run RGBHV or RGBS. If you follow bblues or Aarons instructions, you'll still see an improvement , perhaps completely removing the components is overkill. I suppose I could have done the mods in stages to determine which contributed the most to improving the signal out. However, I'm sure, leaving them in, doesn't add to image quality, and I proved that taking them out doesn't destroy the player.



Cheers,

John


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## carpfisher

Hi All,


I too have an original V880, and I'd love to improve the picture. I'm using it with a Marquee 8000, through the DVI to VGA converter. The colour is not right, there is a MASSIVE over-emphasis on red, amongst other things, which goes away when I connect to my PC.


Does anyone have a block diagram of the output stages? Or better still a reference schematic? I've been looking at the datasheet for the switching chip, and I'm not convinced about its ON-resistance. It is quoted as Typ 5ohms max 7ohms at Vin=1V, but Typ 7ohms max 10ohms at Vin=2V. This seems to imply a possible variation between channels and more importantly with input voltage.


Where is the video 150ohm driver? Is it before the switch or after? Or included in the DAC? The resistance differences with level could make big differences to the linearity (gamma) of the output if it's after the driver.


As a tiny aside, I've found the switch listed as Pericom PI5V330Q (P-eye-5-V), not P15V330Q (P-fifteen-V); there is a datasheet available for this on Pericom's website - assuming it is correct to change the one digit?


Thanks in advance


Carpfisher


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## misohorny

Carpfisher,


I found this information on the P15V330.


I hope it helps.



Cheers,

John


P.S. Found . this


----------



## stefuel

Quote:

_Originally posted by Belcherwm_
*Here's a good thread on setting up Momitsu V880 custom resolutions 


My bad on forgetting the link. *
tse, heres a linc to what your looking for, I think.


Chip


----------



## John M Miller

I just placed an order for an 880 today, but as of right now I don't have a way of hooking it up. Unfortunately, my Pioneer Elite HD-520 does not have BNC RGBHV input jacks-- I have to use an HD15 connector. Can anyone suggest a good place to buy a good DVI-to-HD15 cable OR a good place to buy a DVI-HD15 connector and HD15 cable?


I see that BlueJeansCable has HD15 cables for about $100, but I'd like to keep the cable budget under $50. Thanks!


----------



## Belcherwm

 Cables N Mor


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## gn2

 http://www.pccables.com/


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## armstrr

Hi guys...I'm confused and could use some guidance on which would be the best method to output from my Momitsu V880 to my electrohome marquee 8500.


Currently i am using the momitsu dvi output-> dvi/vga adaptor-> vga cable-> extron 202xi -> rgbhv cable -> M8500.


I have recently seen true hi def and i know there is room for improvement from the output of the momitsu (i have not yet entered a custum resolution), but have updated the firmware (but there may be one newer version).


I currently have an nec 6010 switcher on its way. I thought moome had a component/dvi card for it, but i think it is only for the xg projector (please let me know if he plans to offer a card for the 6010/6020 projector).


My rgbhv cables to the momitsu are 25' (made by techman707) and are buried, so it is not practical to get a moome card for the marquee. I am stuck using rgbhv.


so has anyone tested and concluded (or someone with a good theory) which would be better:


momitsu dvi output-> dvi cable ->moome external dvi/component box-> vga cable-> vga input on 6010-> rgbhv cable -> M8500.


or


momitsu modified with MP1 rgbhv BNC output-> bnc to bnc cable -> rgbhv bnc input card of NEC 6010 switcher -> rgbhv cable -> M8500.


If I went the mp1 route, i would likely have all the other suggested mods done to the momitsu done at the same time by a compentent forum member (who might stumble onto this thread []


please let me know which of these routes would be best or if there is an alternative dvd solution for about the same price.


I really appreciate your help sorting this out!!!


----------



## jaz50y

My Momitsu is hooked to my Barco by DVI-DVI/VGA adapter- VGA/RGBHV bnc cable to the Barco. Could also have done direct VGA into the Barco, but the RGBHV gives a better picture. The results are excellent. I don't understand why you would put a box between the Momitsu and the 8500, so I would say remove the extron and go right to the Marquee. Then try the customized setting and see what you think.


----------



## Joshua Snyder

What resolution are you running on the Momitsu?


if you are only running 480p, you are wasting a good DVD player.


My Favorite resolution from my momitsu was 960p, however, I can't get my momitsu to reliably send that rez after turning it off and then on again, so for simplicity sake, I use 1080i. 720p is better than 1080i for DVD menus, BUT again, my momitsu will not do that after power cycling.


If your screen is 4x3, I think the Best rez is 768p (1024x768). my screen is 16x9, so I tend towards HDTV resolutions.


However, I must tell you, there is really no comparison between real HD (high bit rate), and DVD, even with the momitsu.


----------



## edsuski

Joshua,


I have tried many custom resolution on both my V880 and V880N. I have settled on 1568 x 1080p @ 48 Hz for now. I can not seem to get the V880N to handle 1920 x 1080p. For the money - it is a very good scaler. I will list a few of my custom resolutions below.


Ed


1440 x 960 @ 48


HorizFreq 47376 VertFreq 4800

VideoWidth 1440 VideoHeight 0960

HSyncTotal 1888 PreHSync 0072

HSyncActive 0152 PostHSync 0224

VSyncTotal 0987 PreVSync 0003

VSyncActive 0003 PostVSync 0023

HSyncPol 0000 VSyncPol 0000


1704x 960 @ 48 Hz


HorizFreq 47376 VertFreq 4800

VideoWidth 1704 VideoHeight 960

HSyncTotal 1888 PreHSync 32

HSyncActive 92 PostHSync 60

VSyncTotal 987 PreVSync 0001

VSyncActive 0003 PostVSync 0023

HSyncPol 0000 VSyncPol 0000


1568 x 1080 @ 48 Hz


HorizFreq 53280 VertFreq 4800

VideoWidth 1568 VideoHeight 1080

HSyncTotal 1696 PreHSync 22

HSyncActive 0064 PostHSync 42

VSyncTotal 1110 PreVSync 0

VSyncActive 15 PostVSync 15

HSyncPol 0 VSyncPol 0


----------



## dokworm

Now if only they would release the long promised V880-N external input card so you could scale your other sources.


----------



## edsuski

I can't imagine that the chip can handle deinterlacing 1080i so I guess I am left with SD TV and, God forbid, VHS (maybe camcorder), but still - it would be nice to have.


Ed


----------

