# Entry Level System for Apartment use



## HunterX82

I'm looking for a beginners type surround sound system (5.1 at least). I am in an apartment with people above me, and would like to spend no more than $500. I hear from my friends and reading here that the receiver is the most important. Can I get away with pretty cheap speakers (for now) and buy a 300-400$ receiver? Or should I just get a 5.1 system from costco for 250 and focus on a nice set later?


I have a Samsung LNT4665F coming to my door sometime next week. I mostly watch TV through my cable HD box...though by spring I want to have my own HTPC together. I will also play games via xbox or pc connection sometimes, too.


Thanks all!!


----------



## Jakeman02

You'd have a better system in the end by going with separate components. In most htib systems the speakers are subwoofer sub par to what you can get buying from a known speaker manufacturer. However the ending cost would be higher. If you're willing to start slow and add when you can your $500 would get you well on your way to a great budget system.


I'm in disagreement about the receiver being the most important part. As long as it's a quality receiver and has the features you're looking for the speakers and/or subwoofer will play a larger role in overall performance.


If you're looking for a HDMI receiver which I'm guessing your are with your new Samsung then yes you'll probably spend $400 and up. If HDMI isn't a requirement then you can get a quality receiver for $150 and up. Outpost.com has a great deal going on polk speakers, 4 of the R150 bookshelf speakers with matching center and a quality sub would be around $400, you could start slow and add the sub and/or center speaker later and still be right at your $500 budget with an HDMI receiver like the Onkyo 605.


If you don't want to go that route and want everything now then Onkyo and Yamaha make quality HTIB systems due to the quality of the receivers they include which are basically the same separate receivers they offer with the model number being changed.


----------



## phoenix79

Getting cheap speakers but a great receiver doesn't make much sense unless your going to suffer through the horrid sound and get some good speakers later on. For $500 total I don't know what you can find out there that will sound good. Think of it this way 1/2 the sound quality comes from the speakers 1/2 comes from the receiver. Jakeman's suggestion of the Onkyo 605 is a great idea... Check out Onkyo and see what you like from them... concentrate on the receiver and replace the speakers later on.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HunterX82* /forum/post/12230671
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a beginners type surround sound system (5.1 at least). I am in an apartment with people above me, and would like to spend no more than $500. I hear from my friends and reading here that the receiver is the most important. Can I get away with pretty cheap speakers (for now) and buy a 300-400$ receiver? Or should I just get a 5.1 system from costco for 250 and focus on a nice set later?
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung LNT4665F coming to my door sometime next week. I mostly watch TV through my cable HD box...though by spring I want to have my own HTPC together. I will also play games via xbox or pc connection sometimes, too.
> 
> 
> Thanks all!!




You've to a hardcore audiofile board, so you're essentially speaking to people who are not big fans of the whole HTIB thing and take their av equipment seriously. Audiofiles are like wine conneseurs or cigar afficianados, they are very sensitive to the nuances and are, in many cases, willing to pay obscene amounts of money to achieve their version of audio perfection. Some people are totally tone deaf and are looking for a "good LOOKING" system that blends in with their decor and will be happy so long as it sounds a little better than just plain tv speakers. These people don't visit avsforum and never will.

Then there are the rest of us in the middle (which, since you are here, you most likely are on your way to becoming). We can tell the difference between crap and good equipment, but would have a hard time telling the difference between a $300 sub and a $4000 sub. I am no wine expert, but I can have taste buds and can tell that a good $50 bottle of wine tastes a lot better than a $9 bottle. Ask me to tell the difference between the $50 and $500 bottle and why one is better than the other... no can do: I never tasted those chestnuts and blueberries.










So, you have a good starting point, you fixed a budget to work with and you're doing it at a good time: right before black friday. I am going to take the timing into consideration and make a few suggestions.


If you're willing to get up before the chickens or camp out, you can score some good deals this thursday. Best Buy will have the Harmon Kardon AVR-146 on sale for $199. It's a 300w 5.1 system with hdmi switching. Don't be put off by the wattage rating. Most companies grossly inflate their numbers and you'll have no problem driving whatever speakers you buy with the H/K with tons of power to spare. I haven't played around with the AVR-146, but H/K uses quality components and power sources even on their entry level stuff. They have had some gliltches over the years, but for $199 I think this is a great deal. Other alternatives may be Pioneer vsx-517 or 817 (which now also has hdmi switching too). I have a pioneer vsx-1017 driving my main system and I couldn't be happier with it. Of the deals out there now, the HK is a good one.


In terms of speakers, the typical advice on here for people in your budget range is to buy the best pair of fronts you can afford and add a center, satellites and a sub later. This is good advice if you have audiophile ambitions. If, however, you just want a nice sounding 5.1 system that will sound great with movies and do a nice job on muic, but might not let you hear every minute detail in the music, there are number of options out there that will blow away any HTIB.


First, you need to consider the size of the speakers you're looking for. If you're looking for small satellites that will blend in with decor, you might consider the Polk RM6750 speaker package that will sold for $200 at CC on blackfriday. It includes for satellites, center and 8" sub. You can also find an Infinity TSS-450 (4 sats, center and sub) for around $175 online. Both are nice sounding system that is far superior to any HTIB i have heard in your price range and for hundreds more for that matter. They aren't going to score massive points with the audiophiles here, but you'd probably be very happy with them and they are way better then those overpriced bose cubes. Another good choice (one I am going with for my bedroom) would be the Dayton HT-1200B, which you can buy from parts express or amazon. 4 sats and a center are $100 delivered. I have heard great things about the daytons and I want to give them a shot (haven't heard them yet). You can then add a dayton 10" sub for $130 or 12'' for $160 delivered and you have a pretty special inexpensive setup.


If size is less of a factor and you want to get the most bang for the buck in a 5.1, there are a lot of options. If you want to stay in the bookshelf size for your setup and within your budget, you can go with the Polk R150s, which you can find online for $70 a pair, plus a par of R15s for the rear ($40 a pair online) and a CSM center (under $100 online) ($210 total). Throw in a Dayton 10'' sub for $130 and the H/K avr for 200 and you are at $540. That's excellent bang for the buck.


Another option if size isn't an issue and you just want bang for the buck, you might want to consider the HTB system from Fluance: http://www.fluance.com/fluanceavhtb.html 


This gives you two tower fronts, center and two satellites for $200. I haven't heard them, but I have heard great things about them. If you look at the specs on them, I can't figure out how they can sell them for only $200. Add a Dayton sub and the H/K avr and you're looking pretty just north of $500.


All these setups will give you a system that will far exceed any HTIB in the sub-$500 level or, frankly, sub-$1000 level. Again though, this isn't audiophile equipment, but I think you'll be very satisfied with the results.


----------



## feared

hey, that was a lot of good reading. I was pretty close on picking up a sony 995, because it offered audio via hdmi. After reading your post, i'm a bit inclined to pick up that avr and a set of speakers, but i also read that the avr doesnt process audio vis hdmi. If i do end up getting the hk avr, or any other receiver, how the speakers line up with one another? polk vs infinity vs dayton vs fluance? My budget was ~400 for a HT for my apt, which i will take with me back home after i graduate from college. If it's really worth it, i can bump it up to ~500 give or take what i need. Thanks a lot!


----------



## RVD26

The Onkyo SR800 is a great system for an apartment

I too live in an apartment and have an LNT4661F

My Onkyo system works great in conjunction with the TV and everything else I've got attached to it like my HD-A2 player

Yes, you could get a better setup with separate components but since you're in an apartment (I don't know how long you plan on renting) you don't need anything overly elaborate and anything that will upset the neighbors, lol

The speakers and sub that come with are decent to me and will probably be good enough for you right now

You can also go with a 5.1 setup instead of the 7.1 it comes with


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *feared* /forum/post/12236807
> 
> 
> hey, that was a lot of good reading. I was pretty close on picking up a sony 995, because it offered audio via hdmi. After reading your post, i'm a bit inclined to pick up that avr and a set of speakers, but i also read that the avr doesnt process audio vis hdmi. If i do end up getting the hk avr, or any other receiver, how the speakers line up with one another? polk vs infinity vs dayton vs fluance? My budget was ~400 for a HT for my apt, which i will take with me back home after i graduate from college. If it's really worth it, i can bump it up to ~500 give or take what i need. Thanks a lot!



The sony 995 (HTIB) does handle digital audio signals via HDMI. This means you won't need separate optical or coax cable for audio. If you expect that this will give you all the benefits of TrueHD etc, you'll be disappointed. You won't get anything more than the DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 out of the HDMI, which is exactly what you normally get through the optical/coax input. If currently have or hope to someday have an HD DVD/BlueRay player and are expecting this system to take advantage of Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD audio, forget it. The HD DVD players decode these new audio formats and sends them out as multi-channel linear PCM. This receiver only handle 2 channel linear PCM, not the 5.1 channels you need for surround sound. So there's no technical advantage over the optical or coax connections that have been around for years. I don't think attaching an extra optical/coax cable is a big deal personally. I would rather have the H/K AVR-146 for $200 (much better than any low end sony) and use the $150 to get better quality speakers and sub.


To be clear, I am not a sony basher by any means (there are a LOT of them on this forum). I think they make some decent inexpensive bookshelves and towers.... again, they aren't audiophile grade by any means, but they are great for the average person who likes decent sound and wants to stick to a tight budget. However, the speakers and sub sony includes in this package are genuine crap (far below even their entry level bookshelves which you can pick up for under $30 a pair online). They are plastic, lightweight junk with a plastic/metal mesh over the woofer tweeter. The 8'' sub is just as bad as the rest of the speakers. If you're working with a $500 budget, you can do MUCH better than these. Even if your budget is lower, there are ways to do better.


If you're on here, you're probably looking for the best bang for the buck and HTIB "appear" to give you the best bang because it's one stop shopping and there are a lot of models in the 250 to 500 price range. This is BS because most companies know that the average consumer wants a smart looking receiver, likes to see lots of features (most of which they'll never understand or use) and high wattage ratings (another bs statistic since there is no uniform standard for measuring wattage and most companies--especially sony-- lie when it comes to wattage). They also know most people can't tell a good sounding system from a bad, so they skimp big time on the speakers (particularly on the lower priced systems).


I will say, though, that I did hear the Okyo 7.1 system at a friend's home and I was relatively impressed with the sound. They basically used real bookshelf speakers, instead of the cheapdown stuff. They are still low end bookshelves and you can do better going for some polk R15's which go for 40 a pair, but the system over all was pretty good for an inexpensive HTIB. As I recall though, the system was closer to $600 bucks. If you give me a $600-750 budget, there's a whole lot more we can do, but that's for another thread.


If, however, you want to take the time to do homework and by separates, you'll get a better result and still stay within the budget. The average person does not need a $1000 plus sound system to have a great HT experience. Just set your budget and I'll come back on here to make sure you get the best bang for your buck.


----------



## feared

well, as of right now, i have around $400 to play with, but if its worth it, i can step up a bit more. Personally, i try to keep within my budget, but if its worth it, i can save up and get something better. I just prefer to have a receiver that has hdmi audio, for the sake of simplicity and what not, but if its in my better interest to go with digital input now, then i will go that route. For now, i just want soemthing decent for my money. I am renting for about another yaer, but i do plan on keeping the system with me wen i move back home after i graduate and use that as a bedroom set up. as for the whole hd-dvd and bluray using multi channel pcm, i am waiting for the whole blu-ray hd-dvd war to end before i invest in something. If there's anything else i could look into, i've been researching a lot and reading through things, and wen i went through the other sub-forums, everything was jsut out of my price range, so i stayed in this forum hoping someone like you would give feedback. thanks thus far, it is greatly appreciated!


----------



## sanjaymb

I have an Onkyo HTSR800 in my apartment. It sounds great. Bought it at Vanns.com for $420 (free shipping, no tax). I would surely recommend it.


----------



## phoenix79

I'd go with what everyone else said and get an onkyo system. If anything you can upgrade your speakers later down the line.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *feared* /forum/post/12238323
> 
> 
> well, as of right now, i have around $400 to play with, but if its worth it, i can step up a bit more. Personally, i try to keep within my budget, but if its worth it, i can save up and get something better. I just prefer to have a receiver that has hdmi audio, for the sake of simplicity and what not, but if its in my better interest to go with digital input now, then i will go that route. For now, i just want soemthing decent for my money. I am renting for about another yaer, but i do plan on keeping the system with me wen i move back home after i graduate and use that as a bedroom set up. as for the whole hd-dvd and bluray using multi channel pcm, i am waiting for the whole blu-ray hd-dvd war to end before i invest in something. If there's anything else i could look into, i've been researching a lot and reading through things, and wen i went through the other sub-forums, everything was jsut out of my price range, so i stayed in this forum hoping someone like you would give feedback. thanks thus far, it is greatly appreciated!



The advise I gave to the person who originally started this thread is the same advise I would give to you. I have a lot of different equipment over the years. HTIB is a simple way to go because it takes the thinking out of the equation. You buy a box and it has everything you supposedly need (except for all the cables). The difference in price between a so-so sounding htib and a major step up to a solid entry level starter system is mostly just a little homework and buying from more than one place.


For $400, I would try to get that H/K (if that doesn't work out, I am a big fan of pioneer receivers, Onkyo and dennon are solid choices too for entry level). I would stay away from sony--just not very impressed with their entry level build quality, power sources etc. They offer a lot of features for the money, but they are skimping on the important stuff. Yamaha makes decent receivers too, but they are little bright for my taste (but that's just a personal preference). You should be able to find a decent receiver for $200-250. I would take the new Pioneer vsx-517k. You can find it for as low as $150 if you shop around online. It's a quality product for the money.

I would take Polk R150's for the fronts ($70 for a pair), R15's for the rear ($40), a CSR center ($90) (all prices based on online shopping), and a dayton sub-100 10" (125 watts) ($100). That's $450 total (no tax, but pro. a little for shipping). These are speakers with quality drivers and 5 post bindings. You are not getting that in any htib under $800. That's a great system for the money. The r series is the same as the monitor series, but for cosmetics and they are made in china instead of the USA. Go to monoprice for the cables (they give them away there--monster quality for a fraction of the cost) and while you're there pick up some 14 guage speaker wire for your set up.


Alternatively, if you want small speakers with great sound, get the dayton HT-1200B for $89 (for five speakers) and the dayton sub-100 (total of $100) ($189 total) with the Pioneer 517 ($160). You walk away with a great starter for under $350. Given what you can get for the money right now, I just can't recommend an HTIB.


----------



## HunterX82

This is really good information. I was ignorant and thought I could get a decent HTITB. I really like your idea of getting a receiver (Either the HK on BF or Onkyo you mentioned) and 2 front speakers with a middle first. I am going to do some more research and contemplating about what other items I am going to be hooking up to it. Too bad there aren't that many $100-150 deals on front speakers (I saw klipsch F-3 for 220 each or so). I like the idea of tall, dominating tall speakers in the front and bookshelves around.


Guess I could pick up the HK, and those 2 klipsch speakers for like 650... Need to research those speakers though. I have 3-4 more days to read up







It's exciting!


----------



## afrogt

I like *set2374*'s recommendation but I'd opt for the Panasonic XR-55 digital receiver instead of the Pioneer 517. It goes for $170 on Amazon.


If you go the Dayton route, you might even want to upgrade to the 12" sub since they have free shipping on all orders over $99 right now.


----------



## feared

ive been doing a lot of reading and researching. I've come up with a plan since i do want satellites for now as a larger system wouldnt be ideal for myself. Does the h/k receiver do multichannel pcm over coax or optic? I think that would be the main concern for me at this point since i do plan on keeping the receiver for a bedroom set in the future. As for speakers which set do you recommend for something that will be used for tv/music/movies. I looked up reviews for the polks and infinities and they were pretty good. I am also a fan of dayton products since i am in the diy car audio scene. I really like the idea of a 5 speaker/sub package though esp if it would sound pretty good. Im just trying to plan out my bf approach for next week. Thanks a lot for the help thus far!


----------



## joandarce

After researching here and elsewhere for about I month I finally made a decision for a small room setup: Panasonic SA-XR55S and Denon SYS-76HT. Less than half your allotted budget. It's not a $1500 system but for the money it is excellent. Enjoy!


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12244321
> 
> 
> I like *set2374*'s recommendation but I'd opt for the Panasonic XR-55 digital receiver instead of the Pioneer 517. It goes for $170 on Amazon.
> 
> 
> If you go the Dayton route, you might even want to upgrade to the 12" sub since they have free shipping on all orders over $99 right now.



Btw, the Pioneer 517 is on sale at BB for $100. You can't beat that. With money you save, you can def. go for the 12" Dayton sub. I am actually ordering one for myself. However, the thread referenced a small apartment with neighbors. The dayton 12'' can knock a building down. I thought it might have been a little overkill in the application and, since money was an issue, the 10'' is a great way to go. I haven't heard the 10" but based on everything I hear, it's a pretty great way to go for an entry level sub. Plus, Parts Express is a great online store to deal with and they offer genuine tech support. A friend of mine had a nasty vibration in his dayton 12'' titanic. They offered to exchange it for a new one no prob (even paid for the shipping). He opted instead (didn't want to be without a sub for a couple of weeks) to sit on the phone with a tech guy who walked him step by step through disassembly and repair. I don't know any other company that has tech support that actually knows how to take a part and put together their equipment. I haven't heard the HT-1200's yet, but I feel confident enough in the Parts Express' reputation that they arent' going to sell crap and are going to give you solid bang for the buck. I bought them sight unseen for my bedroom and I'll post a review after I get them and break them in for a little while.


----------



## feared

after reading through reviews and whatnot, i've decided on the hk avr146 and polk rm6750. thanks for the help!


----------



## kabukiUkie

what is a good replacement for the R15's for the rear (similar bang for buck), considering that I can't find anyone selling them anymore.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kabukiUkie* /forum/post/12264067
> 
> 
> what is a good replacement for the R15's for the rear (similar bang for buck), considering that I can't find anyone selling them anymore.



The R150s from frys/outpost.com


----------



## afrogt

Yep, the Polk R150 is $49/pr at Frys.com. Most people think they're better sounding than the R15 because of the new cabinet.


----------



## prawn_sandwich

A question guys, besides the wattage and THD between the Pioneer 517 and the HK 46, the main diff i saw i saw was the Hk has 2 hdmi i/p and 1 o/p.

i have a 4661f and plan to get the samsung or sony upconverting dvd player. i also have a dvr box which has a hdmi out to my TV.

Can someone please explain the diff of hdmi, would it serve me any purpose lets say if i connect my dvd to the reciever via hdmi? or am i connecting the dvd to my tv thru hdmi?


what would be my best setup? i was thinking of going for ythe polk 6750 spk's from CC.


thanks in advance


----------



## set2374

The R15's are the equivalent to the M10's and the R150's are equivalent to the M30's. If you can get the R150's for $49, grab them!!!! They are superior to the R15's. They are an outstanding buy and are worth at least $100 more. I have Monitor 30's for my rears. The cosmetics are a little nicer on the Monitor series, the build quality "might" be a little better, but the specs for the M30 and the R150 are the same. I paid $150 for a pair of Monitor 30's and that was a good price at the time, with a lot of shopping.


As far as AVR's go, forgot wattage. Most companies grossly inflate the wattage numbers because there is no real standard for calculating wattage in the industry. You see on the HTIB's like the samsung which is the size of a dvd player wattage ratings of 1000 etc. That's all BS, no way you're getting 1000 watts out that samsung amp. H/K and dennon always has lower wattage numbers, but they are real quality watts. The H/K has more than enough power for everything you need and will rock out on Polk RM6750--which are an efficient speaker to begin with and don't need a mega amp to get them to crank. I think you'll be really happy with your selection and I can't wait to hear about the results. You'll be so glad you went this route over the HTIB crap.


The H/K is a better avr than the 517 in almost all respects, but that's not to say the 517 isn't good. For $100 bucks on sale, you'll be hard pressed to find a better avr for the money. Paired with the RM6750 or Infinity TSS-450, you have a great name brand system for a small listening area for around $300. If fidelty is your prime concern, the dayton Ht-1200, paired with either their 10" or 12" sub, will come in at the same price or less than the Polk or Infinity and is a far better product. The speakers are around the same quality IMO, but the dayton subs are superior to the subs packaged with teh 6750 or 450, which are little 8''. With these kinds of satellites, your sub will make a huge impact on the overall listening experience. The dayton subs have a far greater range, is more musical and has oogles of power. Frankly, anyway you go, you'll be happy and the result will be an inexpensive system that will be the envy of all your friends (including those with $1000+) HTIB systems and will blow away any htib bose has to offer.


I am building a bedroom system now. I am not going too nuts because it's a secondary to my den system. I just bought a 32" Sharp Aquos 32D43U. I am going to use an old JVC RX-6008 avr. It was a decent inexpensive avr when I bought it in 2001 for my starter system. I am going with the Dayton HT-1200's and a Dayton 10" sub-100. I am going to use a rocketfish universal wireless kit to hook of the rear surrounds. I'll let you know how that goes.







Waiting for the of my equipment to come in.


----------



## nappyloxs

I am also looking for a similar type of system on a similar budget. I can go 650 tops.


So far I decided on

Polk R50 Speakers for front

Harmon/Karmon receiver.

POLK AUDIO CSR Two-way center channel loudspeaker

Polk R150 speakers for rear

Dayton sub, probably 10"



I have this connected to my Infocus projector for movies and xbox306. I probably watch movies 75% and games 25% of the time. I may eventually play music on this system too.


Any other recommendation would be great. I am a newbie who was just browsing, but will definitely like to pick up the H/K receiver on BF.


----------



## surak

I am planning to get the exact same Polk speakers, postpone buying a sub, and hook them up to a refurb Onkyo SR505 receiver mostly because it is cheap and has 2 optical ins. I haven't done much research into any of the H/K receivers. How does the AVR-146 compare with the SR505? Their specs look pretty similar although the 505 can do 7.1.


----------



## set2374

I can't give too many comments on the Onkyo because I haven't really looked into the 505. I did check out the 504 last winter and thought it was a very nice avr and it always gets great reviews. The 504 didn't have hdmi switching, which was important to me at the time. I went with with the Pioneer vsx-1016, which I am VERY pleased with. I would say though, for a starter system (which is what you guys are trying to put together), I would grab a pioneer 517 (on sale now for $109) at BB, take a 10% off coupon with you (and it will be knocked down to $99.90 with tax) and put the money you save into a sub, pref. the Dayton sub-120. You'll have a great sounding system right off the bat. If hmdi switching is a concern for you (since none of the systems mentioned do more than pass through the HDMI signal), I would get a 3 or 4 hdmi switcher from monoprice (around $35.00). You'll be very pleased with the result. Just my two cents. As far as speakers go, just get yourself four of the R150's which are on sale at Fry.com from $50 bucks a pair. You can't beat that. Honestly, that will be an awesome sounding system for the money. You're going to be thrilled, especially if you get a Sub-120. A killer budget sub like the 120 will make this system go from good to great. This is the "smartest" budget set up around.


[edit]

I would have gone with the R150's myself, but my wife would never go for that for our bedroom... I had to have small satellites.







One thing about the R150's... assuming they are like my Monitor 30's, don't judge them best on how they sound out of the box. You need to play them for a good 15 to 20 hours before they even begin to break in. You won't hear how good they are until after a month of regular playing. Just a heads up... they won't sound bad out of the box at all, but you need 30 days to reach their full potential.


----------



## nappyloxs

set2374:


do you recommend the r50 over the r150 if size is not an issue? Also, ould you explain a little about the HDMI switching. I just want HDMI for my projector and eventually new hddvd/blu-ray player (depending on who wins). I haven't used this forum lately and still getting used to the various forums.


thanks


----------



## surak

The price on a Pioneer 517 is definitely attractive, and I don't need HDMI at all, but I would like 2 optical ins to handle my PS3 and TV (TV doesn't relay the audio it gets from its inputs). I did a quick search and found some cheap optical switches, but they may not be worth the hassle (there's also the gf acceptance issue).


----------



## prawn_sandwich

Update on the HK 146 - i went into bestbuy and checked out the reciever. It seems that it can only do hdmi video and not carry the audio signal, which is a big downer. You'll need all those other fugly wires










the Onkyo SR505 also has this mentioned on the frys page

HDMI Pass Through (2in/1out , 1080P compatible) A separate audio connection is necessary










can anyone suggest a one which sends audio thru HDMI also?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Update on the HK 146 - i went into bestbuy and checked out the reciever. It seems that it can only do hdmi video and not carry the audio signal, which is a big downer. *You'll need all those other fugly wires*



Its only 2 more cables. Two optical cables, two digital coaxial cables or one of each. Where are you putting your receiver where that would be noticeable?


If you want HDMI audio processing look at the Onkyo 605, Yamaha 661 or HK 247. There is an added price for that.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *prawn_sandwich* /forum/post/12273854
> 
> 
> Update on the HK 146 - i went into bestbuy and checked out the reciever. It seems that it can only do hdmi video and not carry the audio signal, which is a big downer. You'll need all those other fugly wires
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Onkyo SR505 also has this mentioned on the frys page
> 
> HDMI Pass Through (2in/1out , 1080P compatible) A separate audio connection is necessary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can anyone suggest a one which sends audio thru HDMI also?



Prawn_sandwich:



You aren't going to find any avr in the $200 price range that processes digital audio through HDMI. JVC and Panasonic make some avr's that have this cabability in the $400 and up range, but this is a "budget" thread. Pass through means the entire signal gets passed through. You will be able to get sound on your tv from your cable box using the pass through. What you won't get is dolby 5.1 processed through the HDMI. For this you will need to use either an optical or coaxial connection. I personally don't think this is a big deal and I would rather have an extra wire than spend the extra money.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nappyloxs* /forum/post/12273394
> 
> 
> set2374:
> 
> 
> do you recommend the r50 over the r150 if size is not an issue? Also, ould you explain a little about the HDMI switching. I just want HDMI for my projector and eventually new hddvd/blu-ray player (depending on who wins). I haven't used this forum lately and still getting used to the various forums.
> 
> 
> thanks



The R50's are awesome. If you can get them for $100-120 for a pair, you got a great set of fronts for very little $$$. I gave a brief desc. on HDMI switching above. Switching gives you the ability to use more hdmi connections than you might otherwise be able to use (because your tv may only have 1 or 2 hdmi inputs). Switching will pass the full signal (including audio) through the t.v. (so you can get tv audio). However, your avr will NOT process digital audio off this signal, so you'll still need to yous a toslink or coaxial wire to process 5.1 sound. No biggie in my opinion for a budget avr. For a budget avr, I am looking for max sound quality for the money.... clean signals, little interference and a low thd (distortion). This means, you really need a solid amp/power source combo and I am looking for manufacturers that are putting their money in this area, rather than a laundry list of features that may look attractive, but are really just cheap ways to market crap to an unwitting public. Sony entry levels are great at doing this. They offer lots of features and skimp on the important stuff. An avr should be heavy... heavier avrs usually have higher quality amps and power sources. If your avr is 7 pounds, your prob. getting total crap like some of those sony HTIB systems which can only work with the speakers included in the package (all for which are 4ohm). A good entry level avr should be in the 17 pound min. range. The better avrs (to a point) are going to weigh more. My 1016 weighs in at a hefty 33 pounds (it's THX Select 2 certified). H/K, pioneer, dennon, onkyo all use pretty decent/clean sounding components in their build. You may have to give up some features though in exchange... well worth the trade off. This is where you want to go if your goal is to have the best "sounding" system for the money (if not the best feature set).


----------



## prawn_sandwich

Is the Onkyo SR800 set or a HK AVR146 combined with the POLK 6750 speakers a better setup.

I have a 1080p 4661 Sammy TV, HDMI DVR/Cable box and SONY N77H 1080p upconverting DVD player.

currently i have a HDMI from cable box to TV and one from DVD to TV.

If i get any of the above sets, i would run the HDMI from dvd and cable box to my reciever and then 1 hdmi output to the TV. What other cables do i have to purchase for the audio processing? would i have to buy an optical cable for sound to my receiver? do i need one for the cable boc to the reciever too?

Also whats the difference between the HK 146 and 147 models?


----------



## dcboy78

Hi,


I purchased an HK HTIB with the AVR-247 based on this thread. I've been pleased with the receiver and DVD 38, but the sound is horrible.


I posted another thread to seek your expert opinions on the problem:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=943194 


Currently, I'm thinking of returning the entire HTIB and rebuying the HK AVR-247 and pairing it with speakers from Polk. Perhaps the R50s for the front (a deal at Fry's), CSR for center channel, and a PSW110 sub.


What can complement this setup for rear satellite surround from Polk? The R150s seem big, but if they're worth the size I'll spring for them. Comments appreciated, thanks.


----------



## nappyloxs

Dcboy78:


I am a newbie, but I am choosing the polk rti4 over both the r50 and r150. Rti4 are a higher model than r50 and I have read that they are better than the r150.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...809777&page=72 


also, the r150 at frys are $70/each+shipping (and come in cherry) and you can get the rti4 $170ish at amazon for the pair, no shipping.


----------



## HunterX82

I found some good deals and bought my beginners speaker/receiver set.


I have a Samsung 4665 tv.


Bought the HK AVR-146 for 216.88

CSR Center for 99.99

Polk R50 x2 for 188.80


I also found the A3 for 169.99


I'm very happy with this purchase. The next thing to buy for the surround sound will be a sub. For now, this will do me just fine I think.


----------



## feared

i originally was going with the hk avr146 and the polk rm6750s, but i went to frys today and picked up the avr147 for the same price, which is rated with 10 more watts per channel, and has auto set-up, which might not sound like much, but for the same price, i am pleased with my purchase. I also got the rm6750's and i willl post reviews once i get everything set up and all my wires ordered


----------



## dcboy78




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *feared* /forum/post/12294814
> 
> 
> i originally was going with the hk avr146 and the polk rm6750s, but i went to frys today and picked up the avr147 for the same price, which is rated with 10 more watts per channel, and has auto set-up, which might not sound like much, but for the same price, i am pleased with my purchase. I also got the rm6750's and i willl post reviews once i get everything set up and all my wires ordered



I'm very interested to hear your feedback. I bought a Harman Kardon HTIB packaged with the AVR-247 and performance was extremely poor. I'd rather not have bought anything, the sound quality was only marginally better than the TV speakers on my Pioneer plasma.


What sub are you pairing with your setup?


----------



## feared

i plan on just using the 8" sub with the package. I live in an apartment, so a larger sub shaking things up isnt ideal. The set will be used as my main set at my apartment, and then moved to a bedroom set wen i move back home with my parents after i graduate college, so for the sub, i just wanted something for the low end fill, not to shake the wallas apart. I demo'd the speakers at circuit city, and i thought they sounded pretty good for the money, esp since the guy in the demo room bought components seperatly, the sound wasnt that much worse, so i they were pretty decent. Hopefully, all goes well in my living room with random openings. I'll keep you guys posted, hopefully in a week or so...


----------



## HunterX82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *feared* /forum/post/12294814
> 
> 
> i originally was going with the hk avr146 and the polk rm6750s, but i went to frys today and picked up the avr147 for the same price, which is rated with 10 more watts per channel, and has auto set-up, which might not sound like much, but for the same price, i am pleased with my purchase. I also got the rm6750's and i willl post reviews once i get everything set up and all my wires ordered



Buying speakers that aren't a HTIB is new to me. I ordered (2) R50's for my front speakers today...Do they not come with wires? Or did you just get better ones?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HunterX82* /forum/post/12297277
> 
> 
> Buying speakers that aren't a HTIB is new to me. I ordered (2) R50's for my front speakers today...Do they not come with wires? Or did you just get better ones?



I doubt very seriously they will ship with wires, I've never had wires included in any speakers I've purchased except HTIB systems and then it needs replacing anyway because htib included wire is usually crap. So I would say no it doesn't. Online you can get it from monoprice.com, locally check home depot, lowes or walmart. 14ga is fine unless you have runs over 100ft, if that's the case then go to 12ga.


----------



## Epik

Would the Onkyo HT-S894 at $400 be a better buy than the HT-SR800 at $380 even though it's not a 7.1 system?


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12261280
> 
> 
> Btw, the Pioneer 517 is on sale at BB for $100. You can't beat that. With money you save, you can def. go for the 12" Dayton sub. I am actually ordering one for myself. However, the thread referenced a small apartment with neighbors. The dayton 12'' can knock a building down. I thought it might have been a little overkill in the application and, since money was an issue, the 10'' is a great way to go...



First: Thanks a million for such great postings that were both insightful and specific. Your clarity is extremely helpful for beginners like me who are unable to figure out what exactly to look out for in a home theater system.


Second: You have no idea how you influenced me! Without knowing much about receivers, I got confused trying to figure out what exactly I need and what is required for my simple requirement of just watching movies/sports/HDTV in a surround sound environment. So, took the easy way out and planned to get the Onkyo HT-sr800 - primarily due to the high ratings it has received by both experts and users and more importantly, because it can do a great calibration using Audessy (this was explained in a review that it will accurately determine the sweet spot based on your existing environment and speaker placement).


But now, thanks to your postings, I am dumping the htib and going to go with your recommendations.







Man, this is a crazy ride. Since I have never had a home theater before, I think that I will be quite satisfied with the basic set up (which is why I leaned so strongly towards the HTiBs). More importantly, I do not know if I can truly appreciate the beauty and nuances of systems costing more than a basic receiver+speakers+sub. Hence my intent to start with a modest setup and then slowly improve, if desired.


Based on your other responses, following are the options that I am considering. Would be elated if you could throw more light if you have a moment. Thanks in advance!

*My existing stuff and objectives*: 46 LCD (Samsung 4665), HD cable and Oppo 981 DVD. Both cable and DVD use HDMI connections directly to my TV. Plan to watch movies, hd TV and sports for 99%. Intend using the AVR primarily for audio for now; plan to upgrade AFTER the $300 priced AVRs start passing both video and audio thru HDMI.

Receiver: purchased a new HK AVR 146 yesterday. Though price is not an issue, I can return it if you think I can do with others given my needs mentioned above. Also, someone mentioned that the ASR 147 has an audio-setup and I wondering if I should go with that instead of the ASR 146 if they cost the same...

Speakers: My entertainment cabinet and apartment are not suitable for big speakers and I would like to go with small ones.

_Option 1_: get the Polk RM6750 from CC. However, since you point out that the sub might not be that great and you like the dayton, I am leaning towards Option 2

_Option 2_: assemble individually:
speakers: Dayton speaker package OR Polk RM 150s from Frys (can I buy four to act as L, R and SS??) Or buy both (the Polks are just $50 per pair on Frys as you point out) and based on which I like, keep two aside to be used when I upgrade to a 7.1 receiver?
sub: Dayton 10 (because of the apartment)
central speaker: This is moot if I go with the Dayton speaker package but are there others that you would recommend especially since watching TV/DVDs is the main purpose? I am captivated by Cambridge Soundwork's Newton Series MC300. It costs about $200; this price is not a big issue but I am not sure if it will mix well with the above parts.


Which also leads to the nagging question: how important is this Audessy calibration included in the Onkyo HTiB package? If I mix and match, do I need such calibration to ensure that the speakers are placed properly and will work smoothly?


Would greatly appreciate any feedback!!


Thanks again!!


----------



## HunterX82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12297439
> 
> 
> I doubt very seriously they will ship with wires, I've never had wires included in any speakers I've purchased except HTIB systems and then it needs replacing anyway because htib included wire is usually crap. So I would say no it doesn't. Online you can get it from monoprice.com, locally check home depot, lowes or walmart. 14ga is fine unless you have runs over 100ft, if that's the case then go to 12ga.



I'm about to order speaker wire but I notice the AVR 146 receiver has mini jacks for speakers too. I can't tell from polkaudio.com whether their R50's use wires or a jack.


If I have the option of a wire or a jack--wire is the best choice right?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HunterX82* /forum/post/12303727
> 
> 
> I'm about to order speaker wire but I notice the AVR 146 receiver has mini jacks for speakers too. I can't tell from polkaudio.com whether their R50's use wires or a jack.
> 
> 
> If I have the option of a wire or a jack--wire is the best choice right?



I think you're talking about the biding post terminals on the 146. You can use either regular stripped ends or add banana plugs to the ends of the wire with those. It makes no difference whatsoever in the quality of the connection.


Unless you're going to be disconnecting and reconnecting it often just get the wire and forget about it. If you're going to be disconnecting and reconnecting often then banana plugs can be convenient otherwise their just an extra expense.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12298921
> 
> 
> First: Thanks a million for such great postings that were both insightful and specific. Your clarity is extremely helpful for beginners like me who are unable to figure out what exactly to look out for in a home theater system.
> 
> 
> Second: You have no idea how you influenced me! Without knowing much about receivers, I got confused trying to figure out what exactly I need and what is required for my simple requirement of just watching movies/sports/HDTV in a surround sound environment. So, took the easy way out and planned to get the Onkyo HT-sr800 - primarily due to the high ratings it has received by both experts and users and more importantly, because it can do a great calibration using Audessy (this was explained in a review that it will accurately determine the sweet spot based on your existing environment and speaker placement).
> 
> 
> But now, thanks to your postings, I am dumping the htib and going to go with your recommendations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, this is a crazy ride. Since I have never had a home theater before, I think that I will be quite satisfied with the basic set up (which is why I leaned so strongly towards the HTiBs). More importantly, I do not know if I can truly appreciate the beauty and nuances of systems costing more than a basic receiver+speakers+sub. Hence my intent to start with a modest setup and then slowly improve, if desired.
> 
> 
> Based on your other responses, following are the options that I am considering. Would be elated if you could throw more light if you have a moment. Thanks in advance!
> 
> *My existing stuff and objectives*: 46 LCD (Samsung 4665), HD cable and Oppo 981 DVD. Both cable and DVD use HDMI connections directly to my TV. Plan to watch movies, hd TV and sports for 99%. Intend using the AVR primarily for audio for now; plan to upgrade AFTER the $300 priced AVRs start passing both video and audio thru HDMI.
> 
> Receiver: purchased a new HK AVR 146 yesterday. Though price is not an issue, I can return it if you think I can do with others given my needs mentioned above. Also, someone mentioned that the ASR 147 has an audio-setup and I wondering if I should go with that instead of the ASR 146 if they cost the same...
> 
> Speakers: My entertainment cabinet and apartment are not suitable for big speakers and I would like to go with small ones.
> 
> _Option 1_: get the Polk RM6750 from CC. However, since you point out that the sub might not be that great and you like the dayton, I am leaning towards Option 2
> 
> _Option 2_: assemble individually:
> speakers: Dayton speaker package OR Polk RM 150s from Frys (can I buy four to act as L, R and SS??) Or buy both (the Polks are just $50 per pair on Frys as you point out) and based on which I like, keep two aside to be used when I upgrade to a 7.1 receiver?
> sub: Dayton 10 (because of the apartment)
> central speaker: This is moot if I go with the Dayton speaker package but are there others that you would recommend especially since watching TV/DVDs is the main purpose? I am captivated by Cambridge Soundwork's Newton Series MC300. It costs about $200; this price is not a big issue but I am not sure if it will mix well with the above parts.
> 
> 
> Which also leads to the nagging question: how important is this Audessy calibration included in the Onkyo HTiB package? If I mix and match, do I need such calibration to ensure that the speakers are placed properly and will work smoothly?
> 
> 
> Would greatly appreciate any feedback!!
> 
> 
> Thanks again!!



I am a little late in getting back to you on this... apologies. I am a little short on time, so I'll try to make it quick. If you're talking BEST sound, I would go with the Polk 150's all around, CSR center and Dayton Sub-100 out of the choices you have presented. The Dayton HTS-1200's are a great set of "small" speakers. I prefer this package for $89, plus a Dayton Sub-100 or 120 which puts you around the $200 mark over the Polk/Infinity/BA packages--- the satellites themselves are all basically comparable in quality, but the subs aren't. With small speakers, the subs make a huge impact. For this reason, I went with the HTS-1200-- because I needed a WAF speaker setup for my bedroom.


If size isn't an issue (or not a huge issue)-- go with with the Polk 150's for rears, and Polk R150's or R50 (floor standing---really great sound for the money) up front and an CSR center. Stick with the Dayton Sub 100 or 120 or even 80 if it's a really small room. I also like the Velodyne VX-10 in a small sub, but I think the Dayton is a better deal over all. If you can go up to $200 for a sub, the AVS123 X-Sub is a great sub that can really handle music well.. .somewhat of a challenge for entry subs (although I think the Dayton, with one port stuffed with a socks is a pretty close second in music, and does a better job with movies).


I have to do a little homework on avrs to answer your question here, so I'll get back to you on that.


By the way, don't be scared off by the 5 post bindings on the back of the better speakers. You don't need to do anything special in your set up for them. I prefer bare wire over banana clips... and so do most experts. Bananas are more convenient if you're making constant changes to your system, but nothing beats a direct contact between the wire and the terminal (simple physics).


Speaking of wires, you good quality wire. You can order awesome 12 or 14 gauge wire through monoprice. In small applications, you probably don't need 12 guage... the thicker guages make more of a difference when you're running a lot of feet. I used 16 guage for my rears because it was easier to snake through some tight spaces and I am pretty happy with the sound.


----------



## gunstar808

So much great information in this thread. Thanks for all the information, makes it easy for a noobie like myself.


After reading thru the thread, I am thinking about grabbing the Pioneer 517, some Polk 150s a center and a Dayton Sub. The problem now is where is the best price, and what other things will I need (cables etc) to maximize the experience.


I live in Hawaii which makes shipping a bit difficult.


After trying a few sites I found:

- Pioneer 517 $109 at Best Buy

- Polk 2x R150s and CSR Center for $179 + $86 s/h from Frys.com

- Dayton Sub 120 for $139 + $108 s/h from Amazon (thru Parts Express)


Total = $621.


I do have a pretty good Yamaha Sub and some great Klipsch book shelves. Not sure if I should try to make use of these or just go in favor of all new stuff.



Beyond this I imagine I need some speaker cable and a few optical cables?


Right now I have:


Samsung LN S4695D 1080 LCD

PS3 (via HDMI)

Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD drive

HD Cable Box (via HDMI)

Wii (not sure if there is anything you can do here)



Any suggestions are appreciated. Particularly regarding the wires/cables, setup and perhaps the sub, as $100 s/h seems to kill it a bit.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jakeman02

Since you live in Hawaii I'd suggest trying to find a sub locally within your budget. You should be able to fine a lower priced velodyne like the VX-10, might even want to try the local used market or craigslist, you might luck up and get more bang for the buck. I've tried the Dayton SUB-120 and after trying everything I could think of for 3 weeks I sent it back.


That was my experience and I'm not saying you wouldn't be happy with it but shipping cost one way is bad enough, returning it you'd have more invested in shipping than the sub is worth. I've used the VX-10 also and while not being capable of the total output the 120 had the sound quality was much better, not as boomy and more defined.


If you do want to check some other ID brands check one of the Bic H-100 authorized dealers on ebay for a shipping quote or go to ********** and get in touch with them for a quote on the x-sub. both of these are much better choices than the sub-120 for not much more $$.


As far as your receiver and speaker choices, the price that frys is having on the polks they are a steal even with a little extra cost on shipping, great choice and I've got the Pioneer 516 which is the previous release of the 517, it's a good budget receiver and the price you quoted from BB is a great deal, good choice also.


I don't know what they would charge shipping to HI but monoprice.com is a great place for cables. You can check home depot, lowes or wallmart for wire, they ususally have the best prices. 14ga should be fine unless you have runs over 100ft which most of us don't, in that case to go 12ga.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gunstar808* /forum/post/12304960
> 
> 
> So much great information in this thread. Thanks for all the information, makes it easy for a noobie like myself.
> 
> 
> After reading thru the thread, I am thinking about grabbing the Pioneer 517, some Polk 150s a center and a Dayton Sub. The problem now is where is the best price, and what other things will I need (cables etc) to maximize the experience.
> 
> 
> I live in Hawaii which makes shipping a bit difficult.
> 
> 
> After trying a few sites I found:
> 
> - Pioneer 517 $109 at Best Buy
> 
> - Polk 2x R150s and CSR Center for $179 + $86 s/h from Frys.com
> *- Dayton Sub 120 for $139 + $108 s/h from Amazon (thru Parts Express)*
> 
> Total = $621.
> 
> 
> I do have a pretty good Yamaha Sub and some great Klipsch book shelves. Not sure if I should try to make use of these or just go in favor of all new stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond this I imagine I need some speaker cable and a few optical cables?
> 
> 
> Right now I have:
> 
> 
> Samsung LN S4695D 1080 LCD
> 
> PS3 (via HDMI)
> 
> Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD drive
> 
> HD Cable Box (via HDMI)
> 
> Wii (not sure if there is anything you can do here)
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions are appreciated. Particularly regarding the wires/cables, setup and perhaps the sub, as $100 s/h seems to kill it a bit.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



You can buy the Dayton sub120 for $139 with FREE SHIPPING from the partsexpress.com website. They ship for free on orders over $99. Unless it cost extra because you're in Hawaii.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12305257
> 
> 
> You can buy the Dayton sub120 for $139 with FREE SHIPPING from the partsexpress.com website. They ship for free on orders over $99. Unless it cost extra because you're in Hawaii.



Shipping details from the PE site state that the free shipping is only good up to a $50 limit which I'm sure would be more to HI. It cost me almost that to TN when I ordered. Plus it only applies to ground shipping which would cancel HI. I put in an random HI zip code and it quoted me almost $150 with no free shipping option. Tried my home zip code and the free shipping option came back up.


----------



## gunstar808

Thanks for all the information Jakeman02. I might opt to just use my existing Yamaha Sub until I find a good deal on another. I will definitely check around for a deal on a Velodyne tho. I think previously I was using a RCA looking cable for the sub, is there something better in this regard?


Should I just plan on getting some optical cables from monoprice for the hookup? I can run a optical from my PS3, X360 and TV (I believe). So, 3 opticals and some 14ga speaker wire should do me fine right? With this setup I imagine I won't have to unplug the systems from the TV right? Just run the audio seperate?


Again thanks for all the information. Any more input is appreciated.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gunstar808* /forum/post/12305525
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the information Jakeman02. I might opt to just use my existing Yamaha Sub until I find a good deal on another. I will definitely check around for a deal on a Velodyne tho. I think previously I was using a RCA looking cable for the sub, is there something better in this regard?
> 
> 
> Should I just plan on getting some optical cables from monoprice for the hookup? I can run a optical from my PS3, X360 and TV (I believe). So, 3 opticals and some 14ga speaker wire should do me fine right? With this setup I imagine I won't have to unplug the systems from the TV right? Just run the audio seperate?
> 
> 
> Again thanks for all the information. Any more input is appreciated.



yeah monoprice is a great place for cables, you can run video straight to the tv and just use the receiver for audio as you described, no problem. Lots of people prefer this as he leaves less links in the chain for video. The only drawback is you have to switch your video source at the tv and your audio source at the receiver a universal remote can be programmed to take care of that though.


The other option is running video through your receiver also, then you would be able to use the receiver for audio and video switching, it's really preference.


----------



## Raymond Leggs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12278171
> 
> 
> Prawn_sandwich:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't going to find any avr in the $200 price range that processes digital audio through HDMI. JVC and Panasonic make some avr's that have this cabability in the $400 and up range, but this is a "budget" thread. Pass through means the entire signal gets passed through. You will be able to get sound on your tv from your cable box using the pass through. What you won't get is dolby 5.1 processed through the HDMI. For this you will need to use either an optical or coaxial connection. I personally don't think this is a big deal and I would rather have an extra wire than spend the extra money.




I Do agree with him but you Don't have to Pass ANYTHING through HDMI to get great sound. If the system was good to begin with you wouldn't need HDMI. I for one do not use anything with HDMI seince, there seems to be an upgrade to another version every five minutes which will drain you of $$$ in the long run in persuit of just a few more lines of resolution on an already great A/V setup


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12304492
> 
> 
> I have to do a little homework on avrs to answer your question here, so I'll get back to you on that.
> 
> 
> By the way, don't be scared off by the 5 post bindings on the back of the better speakers. You don't need to do anything special in your set up for them. I prefer bare wire over banana clips... and so do most experts. Bananas are more convenient if you're making constant changes to your system, but nothing beats a direct contact between the wire and the terminal (simple physics).
> 
> 
> Speaking of wires, you good quality wire. You can order awesome 12 or 14 gauge wire through monoprice. In small applications, you probably don't need 12 guage... the thicker guages make more of a difference when you're running a lot of feet. I used 16 guage for my rears because it was easier to snake through some tight spaces and I am pretty happy with the sound.



Thanks a lot!!


I have already ordered two Polk 150s (_edit - originally typed 50s_) and the Dayton package (with the 10 sub) and will keep those that sound good and fit my settings.


Didn't know much about the wires and so thanks a lot for those pointers on the 14g wires and their connections. Will order it once I receive the speakers and take a measure of my requirements.


Will be immensely helpful if you can later educate me briefly on (1) the AVRs (whether the HK146 is fine or something else lower; I think someone mentioned that the HK147, which is a few extra features, is available at Frys for the same price...) and (2) on the Audyssey or similar calibration that the onkyo and yamaha AVRs carry.


THANKS A TON!! Very much appreciated


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Raymond Leggs* /forum/post/12310112
> 
> 
> I Do agree with him but you Don't have to Pass ANYTHING through HDMI to get great sound. If the system was good to begin with you wouldn't need HDMI. I for one do not use anything with HDMI seince, there seems to be an upgrade to another version every five minutes which will drain you of $$$ in the long run in persuit of just a few more lines of resolution on an already great A/V setup



Thanks for pointing out that you don't have to pass audio thru HDMI to get great sound. I was concerned about this and afrgot clarified this in a separate thread.


So, for now, I am trying to ignore the HDMI capabilities of the receivers (have both my HD DVR and Oppo 981 connected directly to my HDTV) and plan to go with a sound basic receiver that does a good job of spreading the audio. Plan to connect both the cable box and DVD to the AVR using either optical or coax. My 2 cents.


----------



## feared

you also have to look at current prices, cuz some people were talking about black friday prices...


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12310883
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot!!
> 
> 
> I have already ordered two Polk 50s and the Dayton package (with the 10 sub) and will keep those that sound good and fit my settings.
> 
> 
> Didn't know much about the wires and so thanks a lot for those pointers on the 14g wires and their connections. Will order it once I receive the speakers and take a measure of my requirements.
> 
> 
> Will be immensely helpful if you can later educate me briefly on (1) the AVRs (whether the HK146 is fine or something else lower; I think someone mentioned that the HK147, which is a few extra features, is available at Frys for the same price...) and (2) on the Audyssey or similar calibration that the onkyo and yamaha AVRs carry.
> 
> 
> THANKS A TON!! Very much appreciated



I am a little confused about what your plan is for the system??? I don't think I ever recommended mixing the Dayton satellites with with polk R50's or any other polks. I did recommend the R50 fronts, R150's for rears, and a CSR center with the Dayton Subs.


The Polk R50's are great fronts, but it's important to make sure that your speakers are timbre matched. The R50's are big, powerful fronts and you're going to want to them matched with a center and surrounds that compliment them. The dayton HTS-1200 is a 5 satellite system where all speakers come matched, the only thing you would need to add is a sub. If you're going the bigger route, I recommended the R50's with R150 rear satellites and a CSR center. You're fine with the Dayton Sub-100; however, I don't know if I would mix the dayton satellites and center with the R50's. I can't imagine that sounding very balanced. Fortunately, Parts Express has a pretty good return policy and I would probably send the satellites back and order a pair of R150's and a CSR--you can give them a try though and see how they sound with the R50's. I just don't want you to be disappointed in the result.


By way of background, timbre matching is important because you want the entire sound field to blend. For example, when an F-15 is flying across the front of the soundstage, you don't want it to sound like a cessna when the sound hits your small center speaker. When speakers are properly timbre matched, this won't happen. It's possible to timbre match different brand speakers, but this hard to do for a beginner. The easiest way to ensure timbre matching is to buy equipment from the same company and in the same line. The only exception is with your sub... subs don't require timbre matching because at less than 80's HZ, the human ear can't really distinguish any difference in timbre. With a sub though, you would still want it to be powerful enough to blend with your fronts (which are powerful). The sub-100 should be sufficient in a room under 500 square feet (and probably even under 700--depending on how much of a base head you are).


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12305203
> 
> 
> Since you live in Hawaii I'd suggest trying to find a sub locally within your budget. You should be able to fine a lower priced velodyne like the VX-10, might even want to try the local used market or craigslist, you might luck up and get more bang for the buck. I've tried the Dayton SUB-120 and after trying everything I could think of for 3 weeks I sent it back.
> 
> 
> That was my experience and I'm not saying you wouldn't be happy with it but shipping cost one way is bad enough, returning it you'd have more invested in shipping than the sub is worth. I've used the VX-10 also and while not being capable of the total output the 120 had the sound quality was much better, not as boomy and more defined.
> 
> 
> If you do want to check some other ID brands check one of the Bic H-100 authorized dealers on ebay for a shipping quote or go to ********** and get in touch with them for a quote on the x-sub. both of these are much better choices than the sub-120 for not much more $$.
> 
> 
> As far as your receiver and speaker choices, the price that frys is having on the polks they are a steal even with a little extra cost on shipping, great choice and I've got the Pioneer 516 which is the previous release of the 517, it's a good budget receiver and the price you quoted from BB is a great deal, good choice also.
> 
> 
> I don't know what they would charge shipping to HI but monoprice.com is a great place for cables. You can check home depot, lowes or wallmart for wire, they ususally have the best prices. 14ga should be fine unless you have runs over 100ft which most of us don't, in that case to go 12ga.



Whether you go with the Dayton, Velodyne, BIC H-100 is really a matter of taste. I tried the Velodyne VX-100 and I thought it was "OK". In my application (Monitor 70 fronts, Monitor 30 side and rears, CS1 center), I thought it was a bit on the wimpy side. I went with the av123 X-sub, which I am really happy with. It's a great sub, and handles music and movies well. It's got enough kick to work in tandem with my M70's and it was within my budget (I didn't want to go for a 500 sub). I am waiting for a a delivery of the Dayton Sub 120 for my bedroom set up. I know I am not going to be able to take full advantage, but I like the range on it and I have heard it in other systems and really think it's great bang for the buck. It can sound a little on the boomy side out of the box. In my buddy's application, we tightened the sound by turning the volume down to 2 O'clock, by-passing the crossover and setting the receiver to 80hz crossover. We then stuffed a pair of athletic socks into one of the rear ports--which substantially reduced the boominess. This fix is recommended by a number of people on this forum and it really makes a big difference. With the right adjustments, the sub sounds as good as any I have heard under $500-- and for a price of only $139 delivered. Compared to other subs in the price range, it's a bargain.


I do like the BIC H-100, but IMO it's not any better than the Dayton and I couldn't find it priced at $139 delivered. Best I could do on it was around $230 at Overstock, plus delivery which got it closer to $300. I think they are doing a deal right now though where they are taking 10% off and free delivery. With that deal, it's a toss up.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12317549
> 
> 
> I am a little confused about what your plan is for the system??? I don't think I ever recommended mixing the Dayton satellites with with polk R50's or any other polks. I did recommend the R50 fronts, R150's for rears, and a CSR center with the Dayton Subs.
> 
> 
> The Polk R50's are great fronts, but it's important to make sure that your speakers are timbre matched. The R50's are big, powerful fronts and you're going to want to them matched with a center and surrounds that compliment them. The dayton HTS-1200 is a 5 satellite system where all speakers come matched, the only thing you would need to add is a sub. If you're going the bigger route, I recommended the R50's with R150 rear satellites and a CSR center. You're fine with the Dayton Sub-100; however, I don't know if I would mix the dayton satellites and center with the R50's. I can't imagine that sounding very balanced. Fortunately, Parts Express has a pretty good return policy and I would probably send the satellites back and order a pair of R150's and a CSR--you can give them a try though and see how they sound with the R50's. I just don't want you to be disappointed in the result.
> 
> 
> By way of background, timbre matching is important because you want the entire sound field to blend. For example, when an F-15 is flying across the front of the soundstage, you don't want it to sound like a cessna when the sound hits your small center speaker. When speakers are properly timbre matched, this won't happen. It's possible to timbre match different brand speakers, but this hard to do for a beginner. The easiest way to ensure timbre matching is to buy equipment from the same company and in the same line. The only exception is with your sub... subs don't require timbre matching because at less than 80's HZ, the human ear can't really distinguish any difference in timbre. With a sub though, you would still want it to be powerful enough to blend with your fronts (which are powerful). The sub-100 should be sufficient in a room under 500 square feet (and probably even under 700--depending on how much of a base head you are).




Oops...sorry about my typo. I meant 150s (the smaller version) and not 50s. But in any case, I think your point on the timbre matching still applies even though the Polk 150s are small speakers, right?


Shows how clueless I am in the field and thought I can happily mix and match the speakers and keep those that I like.







Glad that you picked up on this.


I will complete the Polk set (one more set of 150s and CSR) and then evaluate if I prefer that over the Dayton set. Thanks for the timely education.


Any feedback on the receiver? Is the 146 adequate or can I go with something more basic? Thanks again,


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Any feedback on the receiver? Is the 146 adequate or can I go with something more basic? Thanks again,



The 146 is as basic as Harman Kardon gets. Its the entry level model. How much more basic are you looking for?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12323266
> 
> 
> Oops...sorry about my typo. I meant 150s (the smaller version) and not 50s. But in any case, I think your point on the timbre matching still applies even though the Polk 150s are small speakers, right?
> 
> 
> Shows how clueless I am in the field and thought I can happily mix and match the speakers and keep those that I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad that you picked up on this.
> 
> 
> I will complete the Polk set (one more set of 150s and CSR) and then evaluate if I prefer that over the Dayton set. Thanks for the timely education.
> 
> 
> Any feedback on the receiver? Is the 146 adequate or can I go with something more basic? Thanks again,



I got your PM, so I am going to respond here. Just to be clear, the R50's are floor standers with two 6.5 woofers and a 1" tweeter. The R150's have a 5.25" and a 1" tweeter (based on recollection--not checking the specs at the moment). In a small room, you'll be very happy with the R150s. I used Monitor 30's all around in a 5.1 set up, and then moved the M30's to the side and back when I bought Monitor 70's and upgraded to a 7.1. R150/M30 is more than adequate power/sound for a small to medium size room (under 500 square feet), especially with a Dayton Sub-100 subwoofer or better. They are, however, a lot bigger than the Dayton HTS-1200 set-which are more comparable to HTIB size speakers (albeit with better frequency range, clarity, build quality etc).


I have my Dayton HTS-1200 set up in the bedroom and my dayton Sub-120 arrived yesterday.







Ok, I forgot how massive the Dayton Sub-120 was.. it was just such a good deal at 140 delivered that I couldn't turn it down. This created quite a stir in the house and WAF on the whole bedroom system just went into the toilet. I should have just ordered the Dayton Sub-100. Fortunately, my uncle wants the Sub-120, so I am going to order a Sub-80 for the bedroom or I'll swap the X-Sub for bedroom duty and put the sub-120 in the den... decisions decisions. It's the size of an ottoman or small coffee table (BIG!!!)Nevertheless, I did put it side by side with my AV123 X-Sub in the den for a comparison. I have played with the 120 on a number of occasions in other set ups, but it's hard to compare unless you can put in your own set up side-by-side competitng equipment and run the same media through them.


The Sub-120 is VERY impressive in my opinion. Yes, as someone previously stated.. it is a bit boomy at first. However, I think this is because most people are setting the fade too high. With my M70's, I set the fade at 2 O'clock (as I suggested previously) and found that it was still a bit much, so I toned it back down to 12 o'clock, set the crossover to 180 on the sub, and avr crossover to 80. I then dialed back the power to the sub from the avr to -1.5 on the Pioneer 1016 and it blended perfectly with my set up. No stocking stuffers in the ports.


I put on War of the Worlds in my Oppo upconverting dvd and skipped to the scene where the machines rise from the earth. Unbelieveable power from this $140 sub!!!! With the volume on the avr set to reference level (0 on the pioneer, which is midway on the volume scale), when the fog horn sounded, two pictures fell off the wall, the windows rattled and my dear wife started screaming (although I had to lip read because you couldn't hear her over the wonderful sounds). My den happens to be on the smaller side, 17.5'' x 14". In a ruom this size, I think you would probably be very happy with the Sub-100, although I would like the option of using the additional available power on the Sub-120 down the road.


By comparison, the X-Sub, with it's 8'' woofer and the same 150 watts max power, simply doesn't have the umph that the Sub-120 has.


I noticed no delay in the auto on feature, which is great for an entry sub. For music, I put on Fleetwood Mac's HD performance which I dvr'ed a few weeks ago off Rave. You can feel the bass and drums pounding in your gut. The sound was very musical, not just a booming pound like most entry subs. It is not, however, as musical as the X-sub. On my next test, I put on Blue Man Group's 2004 concert dvd, which includes some very challenging bass passages which are a great test for determining the quality of a sub. The response on the Sub-120 didn't match up quite as well as the X-Sub... this may be where the extra power on the X-sub starts to make a difference (more power, the faster it can and farther it can throw the woofer). Although I (because of massive complaints from my other half), I didn't have a chance to whip out my SPL meter to test the depth of range, I can say that the X-Sub and Sub 120 aren't too far apart, with a slight edge possibly going to the X-Sub. Blue Man is tough material though and it's rare that subs will be challenged like. I also don't want to necessarily give the edge to the X-Sub today because I have had 10 months to break it in and the Sub-120 was right out of the box. Most speakers need a good 20 hours of play time to start breaking in.


I will say though, I am super impressed with the Dayton products and am really comfortable recommending them here. As far as subs go, I have heard $800+ definitive and velodyne subs and I can't see spending that kind of money when there are subs like the x-sub and Sub-120 which give very comparable performance for a fraction of the cost. The higher end subs may have additional power which may make them faster to respond and perhaps slightly more musical (I doubt they can really be that much louder and, if they are, can you really take advantage of it??), but on my cost benefit analysis, I can't see justifying the additional expense unless you are a brand whore.


In the past I have also auditioned entry level polk subs (PSW10, PSW12, PSW303), Sony Ps-W2500, PS-W3000, none of which come close to the X-Sub or Dayton Sub-120. The Polks are merely "OK", but they are all underpowered and, while I didn't find them to be as muddy as some other people find, I think you can do a lot better for the money. I am not one to knock Sony (although Sony probably gets bashed more on this forum than any other brand, with the exception of BOSE). However, when it comes to subs, sony is just total garbage. I could find no fix that could remedy the boominess and, while they may be able to handle movie effects, using them with music is offensive to the ear.


For subs $200 and under, I am going give the Sub 120 an 8.5 out of 10.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12327989
> 
> 
> 
> With the volume on the avr set to reference level (0 on the pioneer, which is midway on the volume scale), when the fog horn sounded, two pictures fell off the wall, the windows rattled and my dear wife started screaming (although I had to lip read because you couldn't hear her over the wonderful sounds).
> 
> For subs $200 and under, I am going give the Sub 120 an 8.5 out of 10.



Wow! Thanks for the impressive write-up. You point to an interesting possibility of lip-reading the significant other. Never tried it before because even if I am able to hear my girlfriend very clear, I still end up getting confused on what she is attempting to tell me. Maybe having the sub will be a good excuse for my misunderstandings.










My dayton set should be delivered in a day or two and I am quite excited. Will post my thoughts once I set it up.


And as a follow-up query of timbre matching, when you get a moment, can you throw some light on the Aydyssey calibration that many of the Onkyo receivers do (and I guess Yamaha calls it by a different name) please?


Thanks,


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12324406
> 
> 
> The 146 is as basic as Harman Kardon gets. Its the entry level model. How much more basic are you looking for?



Oh, I asked that because set2374 recommended a Pioneer in the beginning of the thread and I think someone suggested other receivers that are 'basic' enough for about $100, which is less than the AVR 146.


Since I know very little on this subject, I am taking the plunge purely based on the information I gathered in this thread. I am not planning to use the HDMI options of the receiver since my Oppo 981 and HD DVR are plugged directly to my HDTV. I plan to use a digital/coax connection between the DVD and cablebox to the receiver. So, all I need is a sound receiver that is easy to use and will make me enjoy watching movies/hdTV (not music). Hence the query.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12328172
> 
> 
> Wow! Thanks for the impressive write-up. You point to an interesting possibility of lip-reading the significant other. Never tried it before because even if I am able to hear my girlfriend very clear, I still end up getting confused on what she is attempting to tell me. Maybe having the sub will be a good excuse for my misunderstandings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dayton set should be delivered in a day or two and I am quite excited. Will post my thoughts once I set it up.
> 
> 
> And as a follow-up query of timbre matching, when you get a moment, can you throw some light on the Aydyssey calibration that many of the Onkyo receivers do (and I guess Yamaha calls it by a different name) please?
> 
> 
> Thanks,



A lot of the current avrs (except for the very basic ones) have some sort of auto-calibration system.. Essentially, you take a microphone and plug it into the avr and put in your listening position. The AVR runs a series of test tones which are suppose to measure the distance from each speaker to the microphone/listening position. The avr then sets the delays based on the measurements. All this sounds good and easy, but half the time the avr doesn't get the measurements right. Nothing beats a tape measure and SPL meter IMO. I always set my delays and volumes manually, so the auto calibration feature was never a factor in my purchasing decisions.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12328267
> 
> 
> Oh, I asked that because set2374 recommended a Pioneer in the beginning of the thread and I think someone suggested other receivers that are 'basic' enough for about $100, which is less than the AVR 146.
> 
> 
> Since I know very little on this subject, I am taking the plunge purely based on the information I gathered in this thread. I am not planning to use the HDMI options of the receiver since my Oppo 981 and HD DVR are plugged directly to my HDTV. I plan to use a digital/coax connection between the DVD and cablebox to the receiver. So, all I need is a sound receiver that is easy to use and will make me enjoy watching movies/hdTV (not music). Hence the query.



I like H/K receivers. I set up an AVR 135 for my uncle about two years ago and it made his 1983 3/way AR's really sing. It generates a warm sound, which I prefer. it does tend to run hot, so I recommend keeping it i a well ventilated space. I have heard of people having problems with their units, but I think their problem was they didn't give the unit enough ventilation and eventually this caused a problem. For those who like the warm sound of the H/K's, I also like the Onkyo's, Dennons and Pioneers. I personally find Yamaha's to be a bit on the brighter side, but that's merely personal preference. I have never heard anything really bad about them. I don't like Sony entry-mid level avrs (although their high end avrs are quite good).


If I were you, I would probably go with the H/k over the other choices (if you can get it for $200). I do like the Onkyo 507 (especially if you get it under $150). I have had only good experiences with Pioneer, and recommend that 517, but given a choice I might go with the H/K 146 or 147 or Onkyo 507 over the pioneer.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> I do like the Onkyo 507



Is that a newly released model? Replacement for the 505?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12330151
> 
> 
> Is that a newly released model? Replacement for the 505?



Nope... I meant the 505. My bad. I had an old two channel onkyo integra m-507 once upon a time.... must have been a freudian slip.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12329261
> 
> 
> I like H/K receivers. ...
> 
> 
> If I were you, I would probably go with the H/k over the other choices (if you can get it for $200).



Splendid! Yes, I picked up the AVR146 when it was on sale at BB for $200 last week and so will stick with it.


Your guidance and detailed write-up has been nothing short of amazing. Thanks a million!!


Hopefully I start getting adept in this and start to give my 2 cents soon. (I actually started doing it on another thread thanks to afrogt's background on HDMI audio transmission.)


I will post an update once I hook up everything on Friday.


----------



## keebs1973

I've been following this thread since its first few days and I must say I've been duly impressed and influenced by set2374's recommendations, as I'm sure others have as well. On his advice I purchased the H/K avr-146 from frys for $207.70 shipped two nights ago and the Dayton HTS-1200B package and the sub-100 from Parts Express last night for $190 shipped. So this gives me a 5.1 system for just under $400, which is a great price; but more importantly, the comfort in knowing that I got the best bang for my buck from someone who knows what they are about. Like nycpatsfan, I'm not an audiofile. In fact I know very little about audio and only know what I've learned from scouring forums like this for the last couple of weeks. So this kind of advice is really gold, and I'm seeing a consensus of opinion, on this and other audio forums, that these components are quite good for what you pay as I keep seeing the word "steal" thrown around.


So thank you, set2374, for so generously sharing your knowledge with us, not to mention the funny wife stories.


Some people might be interested in buying re-manufactured H/K avr-146's and avr-147's currently being auctioned at ebay. The 146's are going at around $155 + $20 shipping. I was tempted to join in the bidding but after shipping and tax the frys price for a new one was only $30 more, so I opted for that.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12334665
> 
> 
> I've been following this thread since its first few days and I must say I've been duly impressed and influenced by set2374's recommendations, as I'm sure others have as well. On his advice I purchased the H/K avr-146 from frys for $207.70 shipped two nights ago and the Dayton HTS-1200B package and the sub-100 from Parts Express last night for $190 shipped. So this gives me a 5.1 system for just under $400, which is a great price; but more importantly, the comfort in knowing that I got the best bang for my buck from someone who knows what they are about. Like nycpatsfan, I'm not an audiofile. In fact I know very little about audio and only know what I've learned from scouring forums like this for the last couple of weeks. So this kind of advice is really gold, and I'm seeing a consensus of opinion, on this and other audio forums, that these components are quite good for what you pay as I keep seeing the word "steal" thrown around.
> 
> 
> So thank you, set2374, for so generously sharing your knowledge with us, not to mention the funny wife stories.
> 
> 
> Some people might be interested in buying re-manufactured H/K avr-146's and avr-147's currently being auctioned at ebay. The 146's are going at around $155 + $20 shipping. I was tempted to join in the bidding but after shipping and tax the frys price for a new one was only $30 more, so I opted for that.




Anything to help my brothers-in-arms (sisters too, although I have yet to meet a woman that cares about this stuff). My wife was happy with a 20 year old 19 inch toshiba t.v. with the color going and one speaker blown before she met me (and she probably still wouldnt' care as long as she gets to see the gist of the show). I, however, am an olympic caliber couch potato and I can't get enough of this stuff. I would put a surround system in the bathroom if I thought I could get away with it.


I am sure there are people out there that have had good experienced with refurbished avrs, but I wouldn't recommend going that route. AVR's today have pretty complex chip sets/processors, power sources etc. You can't tell off the bat whether the problem your experiencing is really the "problem" or simply a symptom of something else that's wrong with the equipment and, considering the hassel and of shipping this fairly heavy piece of equipment back to the manufacturer to get warranty coverage, I say spring for the extra couple of bucks for a fresh unit. I would sooner go for a used, working piece of equipment or open box special (can get good deals this way) than I would a factory refurb.


The AVR-146 for $200 is a great deal, which is why I recommended it. There aren't too many BAD avrs these days. Even the Sony's aren't terrible-i just find them way too bright and "digital" sounding for my taste and I think they are cheaply put together and use crappy components. Neverthless, most users probably won't notice the difference. Since you guys are talking to me on avsforum, I assume you want to have a setup that gives you the best quality, sound and features for the money and that's the direction I am trying to send you in.


If you have taken the time to read some of the threads on Receivers/Speakers/Subwoofers etc, you can see just how expensive/complex this hobby can get. There are a lot of people that post on here that are way more experienced than me and have their own opinions on things. In one sense, I guess I am lucky in that I am not a millionaire and have to enjoy my hobby with some common sense restrictions on my budget which forces me to look at some of this equipment with a cost/benefit eye. If you post most of these questions the other threads, you'll be told to buy the best two fronts and receiver you can afford and wait until you have more money to invest in your center/rears/sub. That's good advice if you're a real audiophile and plan to put together a $1000 plus system over time. Most people who are interested in a nice sounding, quality system, don't need or want this. They want to spend $500 and be done until something breaks hopefully after years of use. They want a good system today and don't care if they have give up octave or two in their sound field to have a full system. That's why you looked into HTIB's in the first place. The setups I have recommended on this thread are intended as substitutes for HTIB systems that will cost, at the end of the day, the same or only slightly more than a comparable HTIB. These recommendations are not intended to satisfy hardcore audiophiles.


Hopefully, I have helped get you guys down the road to a sweet sounding system that you'll be happy to watch 300 and Gladiator on and maybe listen to some Rolling Stones and Van Halen CDS. If you're having a party, the dayton subs I have recommended will, no doubt, raise some serious eyebrows from guests who will ask you about your banging system.


I am looking forward to hearing about your experiences and comments when you get the systems set up and I'll check back in regularly to try to help you guys out with getting everything set up, crossovers set properly etc. I had to learn how do this the hard way, so I hope I can make this a bit easier for everyone else.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12339575
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure there are people out there that have had good experienced with refurbished avrs, but I wouldn't recommend going that route. AVR's today have pretty complex chip sets/processors, power sources etc. You can't tell off the bat whether the problem your experiencing is really the "problem" or simply a symptom of something else that's wrong with the equipment and, considering the hassel and of shipping this fairly heavy piece of equipment back to the manufacturer to get warranty coverage, I say spring for the extra couple of bucks for a fresh unit. I would sooner go for a used, working piece of equipment or open box special (can get good deals this way) than I would a factory refurb.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, I have helped get you guys down the road to a sweet sounding system that you'll be happy to watch 300 and Gladiator



300 and Gladiator! Add LOR (and Star Wars on HD) also to it because I am itching to watch these on surround sound and thanks to your precise guidance, I am soon going to do it!


You mentioned two issues that I wanted to inquire further for my general knowledge:


(a) refurbished AVRs: Onkyo has an attractive deal on its website for a refurb Tx-SR505 (7.1 channel) for about $160; throw in $40 for two year extended warranty plus free shipping, it is pretty much in the same ballpark of the new AVR 146 (5.1 channel) that I picked up. Do you think I should check it out?


(b) in your earlier post, you touched upon timbre matching. If at a later date I decide to go with a 7.1, would that mean that I should purchase the entire system at the same time or is it possible to add two non-Dayton speakers to my soon-to-arrive Dayton system?


Please do educate us when you get a moment.


Again, many thanks for the great guidance you have given me and many others on this thread. Hope this becomes a sticky for apartment/non-HTiB alternates at a price level of $500.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12344108
> 
> 
> 300 and Gladiator! Add LOR (and Star Wars on HD) also to it because I am itching to watch these on surround sound and thanks to your precise guidance, I am soon going to do it!
> 
> 
> You mentioned two issues that I wanted to inquire further for my general knowledge:
> 
> 
> (a) refurbished AVRs: Onkyo has an attractive deal on its website for a refurb Tx-SR505 (7.1 channel) for about $160; throw in $40 for two year extended warranty plus free shipping, it is pretty much in the same ballpark of the new AVR 146 (5.1 channel) that I picked up. Do you think I should check it out?
> 
> 
> (b) in your earlier post, you touched upon timbre matching. If at a later date I decide to go with a 7.1, would that mean that I should purchase the entire system at the same time or is it possible to add two non-Dayton speakers to my soon-to-arrive Dayton system?
> 
> 
> Please do educate us when you get a moment.
> 
> 
> Again, many thanks for the great guidance you have given me and many others on this thread. Hope this becomes a sticky for apartment/non-HTiB alternates at a price level of $500.



The Onkyo 505 is a solid receiver. In my opinion, it's toss up between the onkyo and the h/k. I recommended the h/k because it was on sale for $200, which was about $50 bucks less that I have seen the Onkyo. For the reasons I mentioned earlier, I don't like the idea of refurbed receivers. Sometimes refurb means that a perfectly good receiver was sent back and they reboxed it and, since it had been sold previously, they have to list it as a refurb. If you get one of these, you might have a bargain. On the other hand, you can have a receiver that has a shorted processor and was returned. The company does a diagnostic and sees shorted processor. They open it up, replace the processor with a new one... test it for a minute... it works ok.. and they rebox it, run a diagnostic which checks out and they rebox it. Sounds good, except the processor may have shorted because there was a power supply issue and this was never picked up. So, the same problem is waiting for you a couple of weeks later when you're all set to watch U571 on HD-DVD. Then you're lugging the receiver to the post office and sending it back and waiting a month or two before you have your receiver again--all to save $40 bucks. Maybe you get lucky or maybe you get a lemon??? I say, get a fresh unit rather than have the potential hassle.


The same isn't true for speakers and other pieces of equipment. Speakers design is complex, but the technology is pretty simple and if a problem is fixed it shoudl stay fixed. As long as you're getting a really good deal, I would probably take a chance on a refurb speaker (as long as it is under the same warranty as a new speaker). I would probab stay away from a refurb sub though---cross-overs and phase switches in the amps can get a little dicey. For the most part though, factory refurbs aren't such great discounts that they make a lot of sense. You can usually find new equipment on sale for only a few dollars more.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12344108
> 
> 
> (b) in your earlier post, you touched upon timbre matching. If at a later date I decide to go with a 7.1, would that mean that I should purchase the entire system at the same time or is it possible to add two non-Dayton speakers to my soon-to-arrive Dayton system?




You can buy the two satellites as separates, but the h/k 146 is a 5.1 receiver (not a 7.1). You'd have to go to the Onkyo 505 to run a 7.1 system. However, in a small room, it's pretty hard to set up an effective 7.1. You're better off with a good 5.1 system then a lousy 7.1. Also, there is very little media out there that is programmed for 7.1 and there are only limited formats that can handle it. What you have instead are processors that take a 5.1 and expand it to cover the sides and rears (THX CinemaSelect 2, Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Digita EX, DTS ES). You have to be able to set your rears directly behind the listening position with a decent amount of room to spare, and the sides directly to the side of the listening position... maybe a little bit forward. More speakers are not necessarily better sound.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12349283
> 
> 
> ... So, the same problem is waiting for you a couple of weeks later when you're all set to watch U571 on HD-DVD. Then you're lugging the receiver to the post office and sending it back and waiting a month or two before you have your receiver again--all to save $40 bucks. Maybe you get lucky or maybe you get a lemon??? I say, get a fresh unit rather than have the potential hassle.
> 
> 
> .



To be honest, I wasn't doing it to save money. When I compared this Onkyo with the HK, there were 24 user reviews on Amazon that gave the Onkyo close to a 4.5 out of 5 ranking whereas, there were only 9 user ratings for the HK that gave it a 3.5 ranking. Given the larger # of reviews that gave a higher ranking and based on your earlier comment that they are both similar AVRs, I thought that if the prices were the same, it might be better to pick up the Onkyo.


But, as you point out, I can still be stuck with a lemon given the complexities of the current AVRs and even though I would be covered for three years due to the extra warranty, I might have to go thru the trouble of mailing it back in and waiting for some time before it gets rectified.


Thanks for the feedback. Though the user ratings in Amazon are not that great for the HK, I rely more on the guidance and feedback that you have provided so patiently. So, I am going to stick with the HK.


----------



## set2374

I haven't read the reviews on either the avr 146 or 505 on Amazon. I am usually skeptical about user reviews on those sites because you're always going to have a few people that get a bad unit and they are the ones that complain, not the other 99% of people that are happy and after making their purchase don't bother to file a review. However, if you're already thinking you might want to upgrade to 7.1 (or have the option to upgrade), just spend the extra $50 bucks and get the Onkyo 505 new and return the H/K. I am sure you p*ss away $50 on drinks at a bar etc. and you have no idea where it went. You'll have this receiver for at least a few years, you may as well go for the one you really want. Hehe... you are catching the bug!!!! This is how it begins. We started this thread trying to package the best system for around $400 (and my recommendations were based on that number) and it's already turned into something else completely. I did a bizrate search and I saw a couple of online dealers selling the 505 for $249. Check around and you might find a few out there for less.


----------



## afrogt

I know set2374 doesn't like refurbished but the Onkyo 505 is $149 and now they have 10% off at shoponkyo.com. Subtract the $10 for first time clubonkyo members and you've got a 7.1 receiver for $125 shipped.


That's pretty hard to pass up.


----------



## keebs1973

patsfan, two of those amazon reviews knocked the avr-146 down a notch because they bought it thinking the HDMI connections processed the audio and didn't realize it was just passthru. Someone else thought it was a problem that there were more inputs than outputs! Did they think it was a matrix switch?


But there were probably some legitimate concerns: running hot, only lasting a year, problems configuring the remote, and hdmi issues with Samsung tvs.


I received my avr-146 today and set it up with my Sony CD player and B&W stereo speakers in the den. I threw on Cake's Prolonging the Magic. I never knew those speakers could sound so good! Very bright and punchy, and I heard some sound effects on the recording I never heard before. To be fair, my regular Mitsubishi receiver is circa 1980 and seen better days.


My 5.1 speakers have not arrived yet.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12351972
> 
> 
> I know set2374 doesn't like refurbished but the Onkyo 505 is $149 and now they have 10% off at shoponkyo.com. Subtract the $10 for first time clubonkyo members and you've got a 7.1 receiver for $125 shipped.
> 
> 
> That's pretty hard to pass up.



At $125 shipped, I can see the temptation.







The thought crossed my mind as a replacement for the 8 year old JVC in my bedroom setup.... That's about 50% off online sale prices... that's about at the threshhold where I would consider taking a chance on a refurb (with the idea that if it is crap, i won't cry that I am out the money).


At the same time, if you go over to the receiver/amp section on this forum and do a search for the avr 146, you'll find glowing reviews for the most part. Keep in mind, we are still talking about entry level models. If you want to walk down the road of perpetual upgrade, I can tell you about receivers that will knock the avr 146 on its butt. The question is, what do you need right now and for the next few years??? That's something you need to decide for yourself. There's nothing at all wrong with the avr 146. It's a solid performer and if a a good "sounding" system is what you're after, it will deliver the goods. The fact that it has hdmi switching at this price point is an added bonus (and anyone who relied on a best buy salesperson and didn't think to check the specs before purchasing the unit has no one to blame but themselves).


Footnote:


Most of the salespeople at Best Buy and and Circuit City have absolutely no knowledge of any of the products they are selling. Maybe the department manager has some minimal experience, but the floor people really know VERY little (you're lucky if they can even show you where the product is on the floor). Do not rely on them to tell you which product is good, bad etc. Now, there are exceptions (I met a guy in the Magnolia demo room auditioning subs that knew his stuff, but he's the exception and not the rule). Frankly, these stores should hold tutorials to educate their sales staff about the products they are selling. I don't need some kid that is telling me to by one tv over another because "don't buy this tv because this one only plays 720p and the other one is 1080i". My response: "Uh huh, it was my understanding that all non-1080p lcds are 720p and deinterlace 1080i and scale it." His response, "let me get my manager". Some poor idiot might actual listen to this kid and think he knows what he's talking about. I am old school and I expect sales people to take pride in their jobs and take the time to learn about the products they are selling. Yeah, it's their job to pitch the product with the biggest profit margins (i am all for capitalism), but at least make it sound good and give me a reason to walk down road to the land of upgrade (I am usually happy to take the trott).


----------



## keebs1973

I was in BB last week drooling at the wall of TVs and an employee, a mere boy, stopped by to ask if I had any questions. He then said that he really works in the computer dept., and is just covering in the TV area. So I said, "Well then maybe you could answer a question about how I can get audio from a computer to come out TV speakers. I know you need a VGA cable for the video, but how do I connect the audio?" He said, "Oh, for that you need a DVI cable". I said, "I thought DVI only carried video", at which point he ran away and said he'd try to get the surround sound expert to help me. "That's OK", I shouted after him, "it's not that important!"


Not to let the kid off easy, but it's damned confusing sorting all this technology out. My dear father, who is 75, wants to keep up with the times and enjoy the wonders of HD, but he's completely befuddled by it all and it's made him feel stupid. For example, someone at a TV store told him that SD TV was going away at the end of the year, so he quickly bought an HDTV to replace his SD. I said "Dad, HD has penetrated only a fraction of the market. If they stopped broadcasts in SD most people couldn't watch anything. Maybe they just meant that SD TVs will no longer be sold." No matter, he's heard this from several sources and wants to be covered in case I'm wrong. And so it goes. I sympathize with his confusion, though. Now that I think I have a handle on the video side of things, I've turned my attention to audio, and I think sorting out the audio is even harder - something I didn't expect.


Oh, my Dayton HTS-1200's and sub-100 came later in the day. Feels like Christmas come early! This sub-100 is bigger than I thought it was gonna be, even though I checked the dimensions before I bought it and even stretched out a tape measure to give me an idea. Now I know set2374 was not kidding when he said the sub-120 was the size of an ottoman. The sub-100 is a baby ottoman. I can already see the expression that will form on my wife's face when she gets home. And it's heavy. Very heavy. It needs wires. 14-gauge. Monoprice.


----------



## afrogt

Whoa, your sub doesn't need 14ga wire! If you've got a HK 146, connect it with a subwoofer cable.


Now you might need 14ga wire connect your HTW-1200s' to the receiver. That I could see.


----------



## keebs1973

Thanks afrogt, I remember seeing something about the sub-woofer wire being different.


----------



## gunstar808

Having a tough time making a decision, could use some feedback.


The plan was to buy some decent speakers and pair them with the best cheap receiver I could get. Then later upgrade the AVR when the HDMI issues got sorted.


So far this is the system I have on order:


Pioneer 517 AVR

2x Polk R150

Polk CSR Center


Total is about $400.


Next I was gonna grab a Dayton sub from parts express shipped for $175.


A couple of problems tho. The Pioneer is supposed to be ready for pickup from Best Buy the first week of December. And the speakers are backorder from Frys.com. Not sure when, if ever, they will ship.


The other problem is looking at the specs of the Pioneer, it only had 1 optical input! I am pretty sure I need at least 2 for my PS3 and X360.


Long story short, now I am considering the Onkyo HT-SP908. Its $834 shipped from Amazon. Thats like $260 more then my current setup. But its a much, much better receiver (Onkyo 605). And I wouldn't have to upgrade later.


I don't mind spending more if I can be done with it right then. But I kind of had my heart set on the Polk speakers and a Dayton sub after hearing everyone sing about their greatness.


Any feedback or suggestions on this situation are welcomed. Thanks.


----------



## orioles1

SET2374,


I found this site a couple weeks back. Was also in the $400 Mkt for my HTIB. Took your advice w/the H/K146 and Polk RM6750. It took me a week, but I got it all hooked up to my liking. Sounds great. I am one step below a novice so this is saying something. I am buying a Panasonic 50" plasma (50THPX77U) in the next month or so. Which DVD player or what options on it should I be sure to get that is going to go with this new "system" ($100-$200 range)? Thanks again for toning the jargon down to earth for those of us who are novices.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orioles1* /forum/post/12357361
> 
> 
> SET2374,
> 
> 
> I found this site a couple weeks back. Was also in the $400 Mkt for my HTIB. Took your advice w/the H/K146 and Polk RM6750. It took me a week, but I got it all hooked up to my liking. Sounds great. I am one step below a novice so this is saying something. I am buying a Panasonic 50" plasma (50THPX77U) in the next month or so. Which DVD player or what options on it should I be sure to get that is going to go with this new "system" ($100-$200 range)? Thanks again for toning the jargon down to earth for those of us who are novices.



Ooooh... fun stuff!!! I like the Panny a lot by the way. I talked my uncle into the 42" version... it's a beautiful picture and it does a nice job on SD content as well. If you're into gaming though, I still recommend going with an LCD... for sports, the Panny is awesome.


As far as DVD players go, how much are you looking to spend. Normally, I recommend anything by OPPO. I have an OPPO DV 970 on my main system . OPPO makes the best upconverting DVD player on the market for under $500 bucks. However, the price of HD-DVD players have dropped dramatically. For the same price (or slightly more) you can get a Toshiba HD-A3 (around $150-200) and it usually comes with 5-10 HD DVD's depending on the deal. I have no idea which format will win the HD DVD vs. Blueray showdown, but at that price, you can't go wrong. The HD-A3 does a great job with upconverting standard dvds (maybe not as good as the oppo, but close) and you can try out the new format. I haven't gotten one yet, but if I were in the market, that's the direction I would go now.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gunstar808* /forum/post/12357227
> 
> 
> Having a tough time making a decision, could use some feedback.
> 
> 
> The plan was to buy some decent speakers and pair them with the best cheap receiver I could get. Then later upgrade the AVR when the HDMI issues got sorted.
> 
> 
> So far this is the system I have on order:
> 
> 
> Pioneer 517 AVR
> 
> 2x Polk R150
> 
> Polk CSR Center
> 
> 
> Total is about $400.
> 
> 
> Next I was gonna grab a Dayton sub from parts express shipped for $175.
> 
> 
> A couple of problems tho. The Pioneer is supposed to be ready for pickup from Best Buy the first week of December. And the speakers are backorder from Frys.com. Not sure when, if ever, they will ship.
> 
> 
> The other problem is looking at the specs of the Pioneer, it only had 1 optical input! I am pretty sure I need at least 2 for my PS3 and X360.
> 
> 
> Long story short, now I am considering the Onkyo HT-SP908. Its $834 shipped from Amazon. Thats like $260 more then my current setup. But its a much, much better receiver (Onkyo 605). And I wouldn't have to upgrade later.
> 
> 
> I don't mind spending more if I can be done with it right then. But I kind of had my heart set on the Polk speakers and a Dayton sub after hearing everyone sing about their greatness.
> 
> 
> Any feedback or suggestions on this situation are welcomed. Thanks.



The Onkyo 605 is a very solid mid-level avr and the bulk of the purchase price is going into the receiver. If you look online, you can find it for around $450-500. That means you're spending another $300 on seven speakers and a sub. You can imagine what kind of quality speakers and sub you're getting for that. If you're goal is to get the best sound you can afford, you need to put the bulk of the budget into the speakers because any of the receivers we have talked about on here will do a solid job of powering them. If Fry isn't going to cut for you, Amazon as them for $100 a pair. Give Fry a call and see what the story is on the set up you have on order.


Because you're in Hawaii and the shipping costs are high, you are a bit more limited than most of the people on this thread. If the HTIB is the best deal, I can't knock you for it. It's a well rated HTIB and the 605 is a def. notch above, but you need good speakers to get the most out of it. I have seen the speakers they give you on that set up and you'd be better off getting cheap pioneer 3 ways up front, matching center, and two ways for the rear. I am NOT recommending the pioneers (they are ok for low end speakers--far better than the sony speakers---although most companies make better speakers than sony). I am only trying to emphasize the fact that they speakers included in the HTIB are pretty crappy and the sub is really not up to snuff.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12353813
> 
> 
> Oh, my Dayton HTS-1200's and sub-100 came later in the day. Feels like Christmas come early! This sub-100 is bigger than I thought it was gonna be, even though I checked the dimensions before I bought it and even stretched out a tape measure to give me an idea. Now I know set2374 was not kidding when he said the sub-120 was the size of an ottoman. The sub-100 is a baby ottoman. I can already see the expression that will form on my wife's face when she gets home. And it's heavy. Very heavy. It needs wires. 14-gauge. Monoprice.



So what did your wife say?? Did you hook it up yet? I recommend getting a radioshack subwoofer cable with a Y split (i bought mine from parts express for $12, but it should still be under $20 at a radioshack near you). The line plugs into the sub out on your avr and then you plug the it into the race (one and red) inputs on the back of the Sub-100. Which AVR did you get?


----------



## kyhowey

I've been reading this site for a couple months now and I've learned quite a bit. I'm getting ready to replace my old pro-logic system I've had for about 8 years. (JVC RX717 with a mix of JBL and Infinity speakers, but no sub) I'm on a budget of about $400 dollars which is about 1/3 of what I spent the first time. Yes, I'm married now.


Basically looking at 2 options on speakers.

Infinity TSS450 speaker system or the Dayton 1200B with Dayton SUB100. Both go for about $200. Have any thoughts on which? Leaning toward Infinity, but like the 10" sub on the Dayton.


AVR

Heck of a deal on the Onkyo 505 on shoponkyo.com. I like the 7.1 feature if that's a route I would go to in the future. Am also looking at the H/K 146 or 147. Both seem nice. Everyone's given plenty of opinions on those two on this site and I'll just have to pick one and live with it.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kyhowey* /forum/post/12362929
> 
> 
> I've been reading this site for a couple months now and I've learned quite a bit. I'm getting ready to replace my old pro-logic system I've had for about 8 years. (JVC RX717 with a mix of JBL and Infinity speakers, but no sub) I'm on a budget of about $400 dollars which is about 1/3 of what I spent the first time. Yes, I'm married now.
> 
> 
> Basically looking at 2 options on speakers.
> 
> Infinity TSS450 speaker system or the Dayton 1200B with Dayton SUB100. Both go for about $200. Have any thoughts on which? Leaning toward Infinity, but like the 10" sub on the Dayton.
> 
> 
> AVR
> 
> Heck of a deal on the Onkyo 505 on shoponkyo.com. I like the 7.1 feature if that's a route I would go to in the future. Am also looking at the H/K 146 or 147. Both seem nice. Everyone's given plenty of opinions on those two on this site and I'll just have to pick one and live with it.



I am not that impressed with the TSS-450. I looked at it early on as an option in my bedroom setup and decided against them (same with the RM6750). Is there are reason you are walking away from your infinity/jbl speakers. Which models do you have?? You might be better off putting the money into better fronts, moving the fronts to the rear and avr-- or just going for a good sub and avr. AVRs became outdated after a couple of years, but good speakers show last a long time.


In fact, the best setup I have had was a 1982 McIntosh tuner, vacuum amp, pre-amp powering, w/ equilizer and a pair of late 70's AR 3way speakers (12" woofers baby!!) (my dad and I picked the whole package up at an estate sale in 1985 for $500 which was a total steal) They sound warm, sweet and amazing to this day but they are huge (as was the rack system) and took up too much floor space. I have yet to hear better sounding system anywhere. My wife thinks they were ugly and old looking... so they are relegated to boxes in the basement. My point though is just because you have had your speakers for 8 years is no reason to ditch them for a mini-speakers. You might be giving up a lot in the downsize.


----------



## kyhowey

I don't have the models here at work. Will have to look tonight and see what they are.


The JBL's are a large bookshelf. I wouldn't call them floorstanding, but they're decent size. I've been using them as my front speakers. I think they have a 6" driver.


I have an Infinity center channel that is large. Believe it has 2-4" drivers. The rears are Infinity's as well. Believe they have one 4" driver.


I've been thinking of moving those Infinity's together as center and fronts since I beleive they match each other. I would have to buy new rears that are compact, a sub, and a new digital AVR.


I'll check and see what those models and dimensions are for sure on the existing speakers.


----------



## orioles1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12360772
> 
> 
> Ooooh... fun stuff!!! I like the Panny a lot by the way. I talked my uncle into the 42" version... it's a beautiful picture and it does a nice job on SD content as well. If you're into gaming though, I still recommend going with an LCD... for sports, the Panny is awesome.
> 
> 
> As far as DVD players go, how much are you looking to spend. Normally, I recommend anything by OPPO. I have an OPPO DV 970 on my main system . OPPO makes the best upconverting DVD player on the market for under $500 bucks. However, the price of HD-DVD players have dropped dramatically. For the same price (or slightly more) you can get a Toshiba HD-A3 (around $150-200) and it usually comes with 5-10 HD DVD's depending on the deal. I have no idea which format will win the HD DVD vs. Blueray showdown, but at that price, you can't go wrong. The HD-A3 does a great job with upconverting standard dvds (maybe not as good as the oppo, but close) and you can try out the new format. I haven't gotten one yet, but if I were in the market, that's the direction I would go now.



Thanks for the info. I don't watch too many movies but wanted a dvd player that will have the right inputs that I'll need to work with my setup. I'm guessing the main features that are needed are that it's upconverting and HD. I'm looking to spend about $150-$200. I'll see where I can find the Toshiba dvd player you mentioned. I mainly watch sports on the TV so hopefully the plasma Panasonic will work well. Thanks.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kyhowey* /forum/post/12363453
> 
> 
> I don't have the models here at work. Will have to look tonight and see what they are.
> 
> 
> The JBL's are a large bookshelf. I wouldn't call them floorstanding, but they're decent size. I've been using them as my front speakers. I think they have a 6" driver.
> 
> 
> I have an Infinity center channel that is large. Believe it has 2-4" drivers. The rears are Infinity's as well. Believe they have one 4" driver.
> 
> 
> I've been thinking of moving those Infinity's together as center and fronts since I beleive they match each other. I would have to buy new rears that are compact, a sub, and a new digital AVR.
> 
> 
> I'll check and see what those models and dimensions are for sure on the existing speakers.



If you give me the model numbers, I'll check the specs for you. I wouldn't be surprised if your JBL/Infinity combo is just fine together. You may want to put a post on the speaker site to solicit other opinions. You may just need a better AVR and a good sub. I wouldn't run out to buy anything before you know exactly what you have now. JBL and Infinity are both made by Harmon Kardon and it's not uncommon for them to have very similar (often identical) specs and components that just happen to be packaged a little different. As far as timbre matching goes, there is no such thing as timbre matching a sub and having matched rears is nice, but not THAT important. You "may" need to change your center (only if the center is out of line with the fronts) and put the rest of your budget into the avr and sub. This will give you an infinitely better system them dumping your existing speakers for the HTS-1200or Polk RM6750. Those sets are superior to what you'll find in any of the HTIBs that people are considering on here, but I doubt they'll come close to matching what you probably already have. You'd be amazed at what a good sub and avr can do for a system.


----------



## set2374

On the first page, I throw out a recommendation on the Fluance System. I found a link to review of the Yambika system, which sells for $160 bucks!!! The Fluance system got a great review on CNET and here's the review on the Yambika:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/v-receiv...peaker-ht.html 


I haven't heard it, so I can't recommend it. For $160 bucks, it might be worth a shot!


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12361566
> 
> 
> So what did your wife say?? Did you hook it up yet? I recommend getting a radioshack subwoofer cable with a Y split (i bought mine from parts express for $12, but it should still be under $20 at a radioshack near you). The line plugs into the sub out on your avr and then you plug the it into the race (one and red) inputs on the back of the Sub-100. Which AVR did you get?



It's kind of half hidden behind a recliner in the living room and she either hasn't seen it yet or if she has it hasn't registered in her brain. Either way is OK by me.


I bought the subwoofer cable already before I saw what you wrote above. I got it from monoprice and I hope it's the right one. It is not a Y split kind. It was advertised as a "High-quality Digital Coaxial Audio RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm S/PDIF Subwoofer - 50ft". I need the 50' length because it will go in the basement through ceilings and walls after it is remodeled. Optimally it should be shorter but they didn't sell anything between 30' and 50'. It cost $11.


The instructions with the sub-100 say the preferred way to connect the amplifier is if you have a mono line level signal from a receiver then use the right (R) red input on the sub-100. The HK avr-146 instructions say to put a cable from the receiver's subwoofer output (line-level (non-amplified)) connection to a corresponding jack on the sub. The sub-100 instructions explain another way to connect using the high-level speaker inputs when pre-amplifier outputs are not available on the receiver, but I don't think I need to use that method. I don't have anything called "race" inputs on the sub.


----------



## kyhowey

Found my model numbers on my speakers. The JBL are LX300 .


The Infinity are a Sterling Series. The bookshelves I was using as rears are SS2001 . The center doesn't have a model number, but it's a sterling series as well. Has the Same drivers and tweeters that the SS2001 have but has two 4" drivers and one tweeter. Bought the center open box as well. Still have the manual on the SS2001.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12352142
> 
> 
> patsfan, two of those amazon reviews knocked the avr-146 down a notch because they bought it thinking the HDMI connections processed the audio and didn't realize it was just passthru. Someone else thought it was a problem that there were more inputs than outputs! Did they think it was a matrix switch?
> 
> 
> .




Thanks Keebs; yeah, I noticed that and tried to discount that but the stellar reviews for the 505 were a bit too much to ignore. Plus set2374 also thinks that it is a good set.


Based on the info that afrogt provided, I am going to check it out and roll the dice and buy extended warranty. Let's see...I have the habit of changing my mind quicky...


----------



## afrogt

Well, I hope you already made the purchase because the 505 deal for $125 is gone. You snooze, you lose!


It may be back again soon though.


----------



## kyhowey

I was ready to pull the trigger on that 505. How disappointing. Kinda was wanting the H/K 147 anyway, but it would have been too hard to pass up the deal on that 505. I'll keep watching until Christmas. Someone's bound to offer a really good deal on another AVR that I might like better.


----------



## NYCPatsfan

To everyone on this thread,


Thanks a million for setting up this thread and the varoius queries and feedback/comments. A very special thanks to set2374, whose remarkable patience and explanations educated me tremendously and helped me get away from the HTiB mind set!!


I got everything delivered Friday and have been very busy excitedly connecting all this stuff!










And personal apology to set2374, because I couldn't resist another deal on that onkyo's website and pulled the trigger on the 505 (not at that very low price afrogt was kind enough to point out, but slightly higher; but still very low enough for me to add a two year extended warranty!). Sorry set2374.


I might either list the unopened AVR 146 on craigslist or return it after a week.


The Dayton speakers are amazing! The whole sound is my living room is more pleasing even though I should add that my Samsung LNT-4665's sound is not that bad for an apartment. However, the TV's sound was certainly not good when playing Crouching Tiger on DVD or watching CARS on HD because the audio disruption was clearly evident. The receiver and Dayton took care of this and I can't be more happy! Watching Star Wars on HD was just thrilling!!


Still playing with the sub-woofer (I got the 100) because I am not sure if my current set up is coming anywhere close to its potential. Connection is similar to that of Keebs - one wire, as recommended and purchased from Dayton - from the receiver to the right (R) red input on the sub-100.


I am making this subwoofer observation based on my initial experiements with the first Bourne DVD (car chase in Germany). I switched off the TV not get distracted by the vision and tried to focus on the sounds and how they get distributed. Just didn't get the thump and force from the subwoofer as I thought I would. Will try posting some pictures soon.


Thanks again everyone!!


----------



## keebs1973

I haven't got my 50' subwoofer cable yet, but I couldn't wait any longer to hear the sub-100 with the HTS-1200s. Today I stole some RCA cables off other components and with one, hooked up the digital line-out of my PC to the HK avr-146 coax-in, and with another, the subwoofer red-in to the receiver's sub-woofer pre-out. I then took the short, cheap wires that came with the HTS-1200s and wired them up to the receiver's speaker jacks and placed the 5 speakers on the same table where the PC monitor sits.


I played a CD in the PC's DVD player first. The odd thing was that the vocals were very faint on all the songs. I played around with different surround sound modes on the receiver and different speaker settings on the PC's Realtek HD Sound Effect Manager to no avail. Nothing much seemed to be coming out of the center speaker. I finally realized that I had inadvertently turned on the Realtek Karaoke feature. Aargh. The speakers sounded good with the vocals working, even though not optimally placed.


Next I popped in Apollo 13, started up Media Player, and went to the space craft lift-off scene figuring that would give the sub-woofer a workout. I was surprised that it didn't knock my socks off. I reran the lift-off with the gain turned all the way down and there certainly was a difference, it's just that, with the gain and frequency all the way up, it didn't shake the house by a long shot. I tried different surround modes and moving it around the room and facing it different ways. No biggies there either. I then got involved with the movie, watched the rest of it, and forgot all about the sound. I love that movie.


Next I tried the movie I Robot. It was like night and day. The sub-100 was a juggernaut, rumbling and shaking the whole room. This would have raised the hair on my arms if the movie were any good. So now I know what the sub-100 can do! I also noticed some things out of the rear surrounds as well and hadn't noticed anything from them in Apollo 13. I guess a lot has to do with production techniques and maybe technology improvements as far as how dramatic the bass and other surround sounds are utilized.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12377943
> 
> 
> The sub-100 was a juggernaut, rumbling and shaking the whole room. ... I guess a lot has to do with production techniques and maybe technology improvements as far as how dramatic the bass and other surround sounds are utilized.



Apollo 13 is a great movie!


You are probably right that the production techniques of the DVD influence the effectiveness of the bass/SS. And, I finally managed to get my sub rumble (poor connection earlier) and boy, it was scary! Pretty sure that the people in the apt down my floor are going to complain soon.







Since my apartment has wooden floors, I kept a soft but thick beach towel on the corner and placed on the sub on it.


I let the Audyssey on the Onkyo fix my speaker volume levels. Have to work on the crossover frequency and my placement (between the corner wall and a wooden bookcase) to adjust the 'boom' in the sub to a more pleasant level.


FYI: Dayton packed my sub with the front grill attached; unfortunately, it had a rough shipping I guess because the attachments had broke and worse, were struck in the subwoofer itself. So, though the grill is not damaged, I cannot place it in front of the subwoofer and I don't think that I can take them out without damaging the sub.


----------



## set2374

Part of the trick to getting the most out of the sub is getting everything set up properly. On your avrs, you have the ability to adjust to volume of each individual speaker, set delays, phase and probably a bunch of other functions. Ideally the sub should blend in with your other speakers and should not stand out noticeably--most people do set their sub fade levels too high.


You also have to check your crossover settings. On the sub-100, with the HTS-1200's I would set my crossover to 100 or 120 (you need to play around with it and experiment until you are getting the effect you are looking for). To ensure the proper setting, turn the crossover nob on the sub-100 to 180 (the max). Then set your avr crossover to 100 or 120. Let the avr control the crossover and bypass the sub's internal crossover. Since the HTS-1200 bottoms out at 100HZ (I think it's actually a tiny bit higher), you want the sub to be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting on the lows. If you set it up properly, the sub-100 should give you ample bass in a small to medium room.


----------



## Stealthlude

Logitec Z-5500 5.1 set with a sub and a mini receiver hardware decoder.


My friends using this in his appartment and its fantastic for what it is... both price and peformance. Less than $300 and it sounds pretty good.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12386250
> 
> 
> Part of the trick to getting the most out of the sub is getting everything set up properly. On your avrs, you have the ability to adjust to volume of each individual speaker, set delays, phase and probably a bunch of other functions. Ideally the sub should blend in with your other speakers and should not stand out noticeably--most people do set their sub fade levels too high.
> 
> 
> You also have to check your crossover settings. On the sub-100, with the HTS-1200's I would set my crossover to 100 or 120 (you need to play around with it and experiment until you are getting the effect you are looking for). To ensure the proper setting, turn the crossover nob on the sub-100 to 180 (the max). Then set your avr crossover to 100 or 120. Let the avr control the crossover and bypass the sub's internal crossover. Since the HTS-1200 bottoms out at 100HZ (I think it's actually a tiny bit higher), you want the sub to be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting on the lows. If you set it up properly, the sub-100 should give you ample bass in a small to medium room.



Great! I will research into the crossover effect and keep you posted.


I recollect reading that the sub's need a soft base (ideally a carpet) for their full effect. Since my floor is hardwood, will having a folded Turkish towel serve the purpose?


Also, I understand that the subs are meant to be placed in a corner. Does it matter if there is a wooden bookshelf right next to the sub? (i.e. the sub is tucked in the corner - wall to its right and back - and a shelf on its left.)


Thanks,


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12398928
> 
> 
> Great! I will research into the crossover effect and keep you posted.
> 
> 
> I recollect reading that the sub's need a soft base (ideally a carpet) for their full effect. Since my floor is hardwood, will having a folded Turkish towel serve the purpose?
> 
> 
> Also, I understand that the subs are meant to be placed in a corner. Does it matter if there is a wooden bookshelf right next to the sub? (i.e. the sub is tucked in the corner - wall to its right and back - and a shelf on its left.)
> 
> 
> Thanks,



You just have to keep moving it around and playing with it to find out where you get the best results. You also should play around with the gain levels, crossover levels (keep in mind my earlier post about useing the avr to control crossover), and volume to the sub from the avr. If you're not getting the effect you expect, it probably has more to do with the setting than the sub. The complaint about the sub-100 was never one of volume or power and almost never about home theater application (it's usually comes from audiophiles that are using it for music applications and are used to $800 subs). By experimenting with the different levels and positions, I think you'll be pleased. BTW, have placed subs on hardwood floors without a problem. If anything, hardwood makes the sub seem more powerful (without the sound wave absorbing carpet). You may want to remove (if you put them on) the carpet spikes. I think that they may not be great to use on wood floors and, I have seen a few subs walk across the hardwood with them installed


Also, there is a question of expectation. The sub should only be kicking in when you have lfe frequency and to cover the lower end of the sound spectrum. This is a very small percentage of scenes in movies/tv and even a smaller percentage in music (with the possible exception hip hop/rap). You're not going to hear the sub all the time, only when it's needed. The sub should bend into the background and mesh with your main speakers. What it will do though, if set properly, is give your speakers greater range and sound by taking on the low frequency duty and then disappearing and allowing the mains and center to carry the rest of the scale.


Have fun playing and let me know how it goes.


----------



## sid369

Hello all,


I am so glad to have found this thread, I also live in an apartment and I will be buying a Panny 50" plasma soon and was looking for some good entry level avr and speakers. I initially thought of going for a HTIB, until I started reading this thread. I am on very limited budget,so I will have to spend my money carefully. set2374, it looks like everyone here had taken your recommendations and I too am looking to use some of the information you have provided. I have no idea about these things and some of my questions may be silly and stupid. First what is the difference between a 5.1 and a 7.1.

Also set2374 you have recommended the H/K receiver compared to the refurbished Onkyo 505. Right now the price difference between the two is not so much. On amazon the Onkyo is for about $250 and the H/K is for $299, difference $50. I see that the H/K has HDMI and I don't know if I will be using that.


So assuming, I am going to get either one of the receivers, Almost $300 is out the door, now what speakers and sub should I get to be within my budget of $450.


Thanks for all the information you have provided.


----------



## kyhowey

I missed the refurb deal on shoponkyo last week and was a little upset about it. Was going to go ahead and order the H/K 147, but the 505 deal popped up again. Couldn't pass it up this time.


Will be ordering my speakers sometime today as well.


----------



## sid369

kyhowey, where did you see the onkyo 505 deal?

I checked and it still shows on shoponkyo for the 505 as $269 or something.


----------



## ykruss

sid369,

The deal for refurb sr505 is still on - I am new and can't post the url

I just ordered one for myself for $124 after 10% and $10 first time byer


----------



## kyhowey

 shoponkyo.com 


Go to audio/video page. It's in the receivers. Still on sale as of right now.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12419985
> 
> 
> kyhowey, where did you see the onkyo 505 deal?
> 
> I checked and it still shows on shoponkyo for the 505 as $269 or something.



You *MUST register for Club Onkyo* which is free. Then the price drops from $239 down to $149. The Club Onkyo registration is on the right side of the page. Then you take 10% off for the holiday special and you get an additional $10 off as a first time Club Onkyo member.


----------



## sid369

I registered to shoponkyo.com and now I don't see the sr505. Maybe its all sold. I will have to keep checking, to find out if I get that deal again. So going back to my previous questions the onkyo is a 7.1 and the H/K avr146 is a 5.1, whats the difference and I saw that the H/K has HDMI connectivity, what does it mean and can I live without it.


Can some one also tell me if I can get some good speakers for cheap (floor standing). I like the tall ones, but if its expensive I guess I will have to go with small polk speakers.


So apart from the receiver please help me with the sub, speakers and how many speakers would I need and which Center speaker should I get etc. I don't even know what I am asking here, if this all sound stupid please excuse the silly questions.


Basically I need to know

1. Which reciever - either H/K avr146 or the Onkyo sr505

2. Which speakers and how many - No idea?

3. Which sub - No idea?

4. anything else I am missing?


appreciate your help


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12425464
> 
> 
> You *MUST register for Club Onkyo* which is free. Then the price drops from $239 down to $149. The Club Onkyo registration is on the right side of the page. Then you take 10% off for the holiday special and you get an additional $10 off as a first time Club Onkyo member.



For $124 bucks shipped, I would certainly take a chance on the Onkyo 505. With a $450 budget, I wouldn't spend $300 on a receiver that's for sure. The prices are in constant flux, so the recommendations I made early in the thread (started almost a month ago) are not good prices anymore. If you're looking for smaller speakers, I do recommend the Dayton HTS-1200s. I have been using them for several weeks now in my bedroom set up and I am really happy with their performance. For $89 bucks, you can't find a better 5 speaker set. It's far superior to anything you'll find in an HTIB for any where under $1000---which, unfortunately, isn't saying much. The Dayton HTS-1200 are genuinely good speakers and are well made. On a tight budget, you can't do better. If you get a Dayton Sub-100 to go along with the 1200's, the package will cost you just under $200. So, for $325 you have a nice respectable system with room to spare for a good dvd player and cables. There is nothing in HTIB that will come close.


----------



## sid369




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12426632
> 
> 
> For $124 bucks shipped, I would certainly take a chance on the Onkyo 505. With a $450 budget, I wouldn't spend $300 on a receiver that's for sure. The prices are in constant flux, so the recommendations I made early in the thread (started almost a month ago) are not good prices anymore. If you're looking for smaller speakers, I do recommend the Dayton HTS-1200s. I have been using them for several weeks now in my bedroom set up and I am really happy with their performance. For $89 bucks, you can't find a better 5 speaker set. It's far superior to anything you'll find in an HTIB for any where under $1000---which, unfortunately, isn't saying much. The Dayton HTS-1200 are genuinely good speakers and are well made. On a tight budget, you can't do better. If you get a Dayton Sub-100 to go along with the 1200's, the package will cost you just under $200. So, for $325 you have a nice respectable system with room to spare for a good dvd player and cables. There is nothing in HTIB that will come close.



Ok that makes sense for the onkyo sr 505 receiver, so if I go with the 505 receiver, the dayton hts-1200s speakers and the dayton sub- 100, is that all I will need. so the hts-1200s will include the center speaker channel right?

this sounds good for $325 it sunder my budget. Could you tell me if I can get and floor speakers which are good and cheap.


Is there any good speakers that are a little sexy (aesthetically) and does a good job with sound as well.


Thanks


----------



## afrogt

both the hk 146 and onkyo 505 have HDMI connectivity, but its for video switching only, no audio is processed via HDMI on either unit. you'll need to connect a digital optical or coaxial cable for audio.


How many speakers? Up to you. 5.1 is fine for most everyone, but if you have the proper room for 7.1, it can be an added bonus.


I didn't see a price range for speakers or sub so I have no idea. Okay now I see its $325.


How big is the room?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Could you tell me if I can get and floor speakers which are good and cheap



Frys.com has the floorstanding Polk R50 for $59 each. That's an outstanding bargain.
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4005092 


Get some R150 bookshelfs for the rear speakers for $49/pr
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4965491 


That's $170 plus shipping for 4 speakers.


Polk CSR center is $79
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4966251 


Now you're up to $250 plus shipping.


And one of those Dayton 10" or 12" subs for $105 or $139 shipped
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-633 
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...Number=300-635 


And dont forget the subwoofer cable
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=189-300


----------



## kyhowey

I purchased the 505, the dayton 1200 set and the dayton sub100 10" yesterday. Hope to have everything here next week sometime. I'll be sure to give everyone an update once I get it all hooked up. I can barely wait to get it all set up.


I'm going to hook up my old infinity speakers for the fronts and center channel and use the dayton's for surrounds. Then I'll probably try it with all daytons and see which sounds better to me. Thanks to all for your help.


----------



## sid369




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12426934
> 
> 
> Frys.com has the floorstanding Polk R50 for $59 each. That's an outstanding bargain.
> http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4005092
> 
> 
> Get some R150 bookshelfs for the rear speakers for $49/pr
> http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4965491
> 
> 
> That's $170 plus shipping for 4 speakers.
> 
> 
> Polk CSR center is $79
> http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4966251
> 
> 
> Now you're up to $250 plus shipping.
> 
> 
> And one of those Dayton 10" or 12" subs for $105 or $139 shipped
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-633
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...Number=300-635
> 
> 
> And dont forget the subwoofer cable
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=189-300



Thanks for the links, I like the polk floor standing speakers, I don't know about speakers, so do you think for that price they are good speakers?


Also, just in case if I want to expand in the future would the onkyo or the H/K receivers give me the flexibility to go from 5.1 to 7.1, sorry for the stupid question.


thanks


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12429412
> 
> 
> Thanks for the links, I like the polk floor standing speakers, I don't know about speakers, so do you think for that price they are good speakers?
> 
> 
> Also, just in case if I want to expand in the future would the onkyo or the H/K receivers give me the flexibility to go from 5.1 to 7.1, sorry for the stupid question.
> 
> 
> thanks



Sorry for the late reply, things have been crazy at work and weekends fly by as I am enjoying my home theater thanks to this great thread!










If you like floor speakers, you should check out Fluance, a Canadian comapny. I think someone mentioned that earlier. For their price, I thought it was an amazing deal because they had floor speakers.


I didn't want floor speakers and so went with the Dayton set + sub as guided by set2374. AMAZING!! (My 14awg wire should be arriving tomorrow and I am looking forward connecting it.)


For receiver: I purchased the HK 146 from BB during their Thanksgiving sale at a great price but when set2374 thought they were comparable to the Onkyo 505, I preferred the Onkyo due to better reviews on amazon and cnet (and being the dumb guy that I am, assumed 7.1 > 5.1 and thought I will add two more speakers. Set2374 educated that it was not the case but by then, I was too thrilled with the Onkyo and its Aydyssey system).


I picked up a refurb Onkyo on shoponkyo after speaking to them (they admitted they cannot give out the specific work carried out but gave their 2 cents that many if not most of their refurb items are open box items or damaged cartons returned by the dealers/stores). For peace, I added two years of warranty and price was around the same I paid for HK 146.


So, the HK is still lying unopened and I plan to return it soon. I didn't have the nerve to open and compare it with the Onkyo because I will be tearing my hair again trying to figure out which one is better. Too much of pain and since I am happy with the current system, I am staying put with the Onkyo.


If you prefer a 7.1 for whatever reason, bear in mind that HK is 5.1


----------



## fatalysis

Hi, complete noob over here when it comes to home audio. After lurking around some and coming across this thread (great information btw), I was pretty set on the following set-up:


Dayton HTS-1200 speakers

Dayton Sub-100 10" sub-woofer

H/K AVR-146 or 147 receiver

2 pairs of speaker stands for the front and rear


After talking with a friend, he also mentioned considering looking at the Onkyo SR600 and SR800. In terms of quality, are these HTIBs pretty comparable to what I was looking at? I know the SR800 is a 7.1 system vs the 5.1 system above, but if the quality of the speakers, receiver and sub are a whole lot better compared to what I was thinking, I'd definitely consider it (less than $500 for a good HTIB seems like a good deal to me).


The system would go in my apartment's living room, which from TV to couch is about 15'. I'm really just looking at 5.1 systems right now but willing to consider 7.1 (would then also look at the AVR-247) in the event I move somewhere with more space. Also, I went with satellite speakers due to the width of my TV viewing area (about 9')...if I had just a little more space I would've gone with the R150 bookshelfs in the front and rear and a CSR center. As far as cost, my budget's around $550.


I'd welcome any thoughts or suggestions you like to share. Thanks!


----------



## ykruss

fatalysis, HTIB SR800 cost around $400 and has 575 receiver which is very similar to avr146 and ONKYO 505.


Because you are open to building the system I would suggest go back to your first choice and for the same money or even less you gonna have much better sounding system.

That exactly what I ended up doing and bought:


Dayton HTS-1200 speakers - $85

Dayton Sub-100 10" sub-woofer -$105

ONKYO 505 - $124

Speaker wires, banana plugs, cables, etc. - $45

-----------------------------------------------

Total: $360


----------



## sid369

Although the polk R50 is at a good price at fry's, but I noticed that it comes in a cherry color not black, that is a bummer for me.I was hoping it would be black, am I mistaken here, so I guess I will just go with the Dayton 1200 since that comes in black color. Any inputs thanks.


----------



## hondapower

Great thread! I was also curious how you guys felt about the polk r300's and r50's as they are on sale at fry's now.


Thanks for any input!


----------



## feared

i went /w the polk rm6750, and im quite pleased as they fill my living room nicely. they also blend in quite nicely, and guests havent said a thing about the home theater, so im happy. the avr147 is pretty simple to use. thanks for all the help thus far!


----------



## surak

I got the cherry R50s from Fry's and am very happy with them. I use them with a CSR and R150 surrounds in my apartment with no subwoofer, and still get paranoid and turn the bass down all the way on the EQ when it gets late. Originally wanted black to match the other equipment but cherry was what was available and it actually looks quite nice. My girlfriend even says she prefers the color contrast to an all-black setup.


----------



## Aaronsmity

After reading this here is what I was thinking:

4x Polk 150s ($100)

1x Polk CSR ($80)

Onkyo SR600 ($250)

Sub - Will get it later


I have a ps3/blu-ray player and vizio 32", will this receiver be able to give me all the audio benefits I need. What cables would I need to get this setup going?


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatalysis* /forum/post/12431764
> 
> 
> Hi, complete noob over here when it comes to home audio. After lurking around some and coming across this thread (great information btw), I was pretty set on the following set-up:
> 
> 
> Dayton HTS-1200 speakers
> 
> Dayton Sub-100 10" sub-woofer
> 
> H/K AVR-146 or 147 receiver
> 
> 2 pairs of speaker stands for the front and rear
> 
> 
> After talking with a friend, he also mentioned considering looking at the Onkyo SR600 and SR800. In terms of quality, are these HTIBs pretty comparable to what I was looking at? I know the SR800 is a 7.1 system vs the 5.1 system above, but if the quality of the speakers, receiver and sub are a whole lot better compared to what I was thinking, I'd definitely consider it (less than $500 for a good HTIB seems like a good deal to me).
> 
> 
> The system would go in my apartment's living room, which from TV to couch is about 15'. I'm really just looking at 5.1 systems right now but willing to consider 7.1 (would then also look at the AVR-247) in the event I move somewhere with more space. Also, I went with satellite speakers due to the width of my TV viewing area (about 9')...if I had just a little more space I would've gone with the R150 bookshelfs in the front and rear and a CSR center. As far as cost, my budget's around $550.
> 
> 
> I'd welcome any thoughts or suggestions you like to share. Thanks!




Not sure how closely you read set73's various posts right from the beginning. Recommend you read them again.


I went solely by his strong conviction that for a budget of around $500, we could assemble something far better than HTiBs. However, I have not purchased a HTiB to evalute if they can be better than my current Dayton speakers, which with their sub are excellent.


That said, set73 does mention somewhere that he heard the Onkyo800 and that they were good.


And, he pointed out something about 7.1 systems that opened my eyes: I assumed that if I add two more speakers, I would get more sound (and hence with a 7.1) but apparently not!


----------



## surak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aaronsmity* /forum/post/12435916
> 
> 
> After reading this here is what I was thinking:
> 
> 4x Polk 150s ($100)
> 
> 1x Polk CSR ($80)
> 
> Onkyo SR600 ($250)
> 
> Sub - Will get it later
> 
> 
> I have a ps3/blu-ray player and vizio 32", will this receiver be able to give me all the audio benefits I need. What cables would I need to get this setup going?



Where are you planning to mount those front speakers? I went with R50s for the fronts because the increase in price is minimal when factoring in the added cost of stands (I can't put in shelves) for R150s. As an added benefit, I've found the R50s sufficient on the low end and think I can go without a sub, so that makes floorstanders an even better deal. If you're concerned about disturbing the neighbors you may find the R50s an good option for the front.


----------



## fatalysis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ykruss* /forum/post/12431930
> 
> 
> fatalysis, HTIB SR800 cost around $400 and has 575 receiver which is very similar to avr146 and ONKYO 505.
> 
> 
> Because you are open to building the system I would suggest go back to your first choice and for the same money or even less you gonna have much better sounding system.
> 
> That exactly what I ended up doing and bought:
> 
> 
> Dayton HTS-1200 speakers - $85
> 
> Dayton Sub-100 10" sub-woofer -$105
> 
> ONKYO 505 - $124
> 
> Speaker wires, banana plugs, cables, etc. - $45
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> Total: $360



Appreciate your thoughts, ykruss. After reading your post, I decided to look into the Onkyo receivers some more and found comfort going with the Onkyo 505 and the Dayton speakers knowing that I can always upgrade my speakers around this receiver later on. After comparing it to the H/K 146 and 147, I was wondering why the Onkyo 505, which is a 7.1 receiver, the same price or near the same price as the H/K 146, which is a 5.1 receiver. Any ideas?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> I was wondering why the Onkyo 505, which is a 7.1 receiver, the same price or near the same price as the H/K 146, which is a 5.1 receiver. Any ideas?



Because HK's sound better!


----------



## confidenceman

Useful thread.


After much hair-pulling over how I was going to assemble a passable 5.1 system, I decided to take the much easier and cheaper route that folks in this thread seem to be taking. So I went ahead and ordered the Dayton 1200s and sub-100 (hopefully arrives by the end of the week). I figure these will be good "place-holder" speakers until I can afford to build a better system. My set-up's also in a pretty small room (12'x14'x14'), so no point in filling it out just yet.


My head's spinning lately because I just replaced a 15+ yr old onkyo tx-910 with the onkyo 605 ($300 refurbed from shoponkyo), and these new speakers are replacing my ancient (~20yrs) Bose bookshelf speakers (had these since high school!). This is all happening so fast.


Anyhow, it's been tough to spot the most "appropriate" thread for my needs in these forums, but this was one of the most useful. Thanks, all.


Quick couple of questions: Are there alternatives to rebuilding my speaker system from scratch if I want to bump up the quality? Say I want to improve the front speakers, for example. Should I stick with Dayton? Are there substantially better Dayton speakers than these satellites? Or will I need to start from scratch?


----------



## sid369

Would someone be able to tell me, if I can get floor standing speakers that are closely priced as the Polk R50, but comes in black color. I want to have consistency and want black floor standing speakers as opposed to the Cherry color for the Polk R50. Are the Polk R150 book-shelve speakers of Fry's also in cherry or does that come in black.


Appreciate your time


----------



## surak

The R50s come in both black and cherry, although Fry's deals tend to be on cherry (except during Black Friday when the black ones were the ones on sale). The R150s are black.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12407228
> 
> 
> BTW, have placed subs on hardwood floors without a problem. If anything, hardwood makes the sub seem more powerful (without the sound wave absorbing carpet). You may want to remove (if you put them on) the carpet spikes. I think that they may not be great to use on wood floors and, I have seen a few subs walk across the hardwood with them installed



Thanks set.


Yes, I have those spikes beneath the sub. Will remove both that and the heavy towel and let you know how it sounds.


And yes, I am playing around with the gain and crossover. Even if I keep them at mid range, it is pretty amazing! This sub rocks!! Might take some time before I am happy with a proper setting.


Two queries on placements:


(1) How are you keeping the centre speaker? Lying down (meaning the Dayton symbol is on the side) or horizantal, similar to the other speakers (which will have the symbol the correct way)?


(2) Sub: fine to place it between the corner of a wall and wooden bookshelf? i.e. it is surrounded by three sides and the front is exactly on line with the wall and the bookshelf.


Would appreciate your feedback.


Thanks!


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *confidenceman* /forum/post/12439672
> 
> 
> Useful thread.
> 
> 
> After much hair-pulling over how I was going to assemble a passable 5.1 system, I decided to take the much easier and cheaper route that folks in this thread seem to be taking. So I went ahead and ordered the Dayton 1200s and sub-100 (hopefully arrives by the end of the week). I figure these will be good "place-holder" speakers until I can afford to build a better system. My set-up's also in a pretty small room (12'x14'x14'), so no point in filling it out just yet.
> 
> 
> My head's spinning lately because I just replaced a 15+ yr old onkyo tx-910 with the onkyo 605 ($300 refurbed from shoponkyo), and these new speakers are replacing my ancient (~20yrs) Bose bookshelf speakers (had these since high school!). This is all happening so fast.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, it's been tough to spot the most "appropriate" thread for my needs in these forums, but this was one of the most useful. Thanks, all.
> 
> 
> Quick couple of questions: Are there alternatives to rebuilding my speaker system from scratch if I want to bump up the quality? Say I want to improve the front speakers, for example. Should I stick with Dayton? Are there substantially better Dayton speakers than these satellites? Or will I need to start from scratch?



You can always find better!! lol... This thread was intended for people who want a good, quality home theater sound on a budget. I like the Daytons. Combined with a Sub-100, I think they are an excellent for around $190 and better than anything comparable: Infinity TSS-450 or Polk RM6750 (not that those are bad either, I just think you getter better bang for the buck with Dayton, but all three are better than any HTIB system).


If you want to spend a little more money and are looking for a small speakers (smaller than bookshelf), I would recommend the Athena Micra 6's. They are a great sounding small speaker. They are probably a notch above the Daytons, but they also cost about $350 online:

http://www.amazon.com/Athena-Micra-6.../dp/B0002H6M12 


I also like the Polk RM10's, which go for around $400 now (used to be closer to a $1000):

http://superpricedelectronics.com/pr...roducts_id=160 


These a great sounding speaker systems (although I am not a fan of the sub on the Athena 6).


If you want to go up even higher, there are a ton of options... it's easy to have a big budget and find great quality equipment. The real challenge is to find a great quality for an affordable price.










If you want to go for a bookshelf or floorstanding speaker, you'll get better quality sound at a lower price points.


I would take the Polk RM10s with a BIC H-100 sub: the speaker package will run around $650 and it will be a great sounding system. How much better will this system soudn over the Dayton 1200/sub-100 combo??? Not sure.. maybe 10-15% better (just guessing), but it will cost $400 more. If you're an aspiring audiophile and you have a discerning ear, than it's worth it. If you're a normal person that just wants a "good" sounding system that you'll think is great and will impress most of your friends and family, the Dayton will probably do the job.


I have a dayton set up in my bedroom and I love it. Does it sound as good as my main set up, with $600 set of Polk Monitor 70's, 4 monitor 30 surrounds ($375 for 4), dayton-120 sub (weakest link in the system) ($150) and pioneer vsx-1016THX select receiver ($400)... not a chance.


You'll be hardpressed to ever get a small sub-bookshelf size speaker than has the fullness of a good quality 3/way floorstanding speaker. The laws of physics make it hard to match. I am not saying my main set up is the be all and end all. For $1,500 it's a great sounding system and after I make a few modifications to the Sub-120, it's going to sing. I have heard much better sounding systems, but you'd have to go probably spend another $1000 smartly before you get to a system where the difference is really noticeable.


That's the thing about audio... it's really a matter of taste. It's like wine (I think I made this analogy in an earlier post). The average person can tell the difference between a cheap $7 bottle of wine and a good $50 bottle. Ask them if they can tell the difference in quality between a $50 bottle of wine and $200 bottle and they'll be clueless. So, when I give advice to people, I take into account what they are actually able to appreciate and try to match them with the system that's going to give them as much as they need to be really happy without spending more than is necessary.


PatNYC is going to love his daytons. Even though the Athenas or Polk RM10s sound better, he won't really be able to tell much of a difference (if any) and they cost a LOT more. I wouldn't even suggest them to him. If he gets so into the HT world that he wants to really step up, it probably wouldn't be to the Athenas or RM10s, it will be to something above them. In that case, he's better off getting good bang for the buck on the daytons and saving the money (which he can put to better use down the road).


If people on this thread have auditioned HTIB systems and were inclined to go that route, by making the small switch in thought process and going with the Daytons with Sub-100, they'll be blown away. The difference is that big! So, I can comfortably make my recommendations.


----------



## set2374

Answers to your questions NYCPat


(Question 1) Yes, I have those spikes beneath the sub. Will remove both that and the heavy towel and let you know how it sounds.



(Answer 1) Instead of the spikes, when you have a chance, stop buy a local hardware store and pick up some felt pads that you can just stick to the bottom of the sub. You do want the sub off the floor, but carpet spikes on hardwood doesn't work very well in my experience.




(question 2) And yes, I am playing around with the gain and crossover. Even if I keep them at mid range, it is pretty amazing! This sub rocks!! Might take some time before I am happy with a proper setting.



(answer 2) Set the crossover at the highest level on the sub and set it to 80 or 100 on the receiver (whichever sounds better to you). By setting the sub crossover at the highest level, you defeat the sub's internal crossover and you run the sub through the receiver. The sub will blend better with the rest of your speakers.




(Question 3) How are you keeping the centre speaker? Lying down (meaning the Dayton symbol is on the side) or horizantal, similar to the other speakers (which will have the symbol the correct way)?


(Answer 3) The center speaker is intended to lay horizontally, either directly over or under the t.v. The front speakers should ideally be at least six feet apart from the center axis of the television (I think 8-10 feet works really well). They should also be placed at the level of your ear when you are at your normal sitting position. If you can't get it exactly ideal, they'll still sound good... you just try to do the best you can.



(Question 4) Sub: fine to place it between the corner of a wall and wooden bookshelf? i.e. it is surrounded by three sides and the front is exactly on line with the wall and the bookshelf.



(Answer 4) Sub position really depends on the accoustics of the room. I can't really give you advice on this. The front corner is a traditional location for a sub--- sometimes caddy cornered. You have to experiment until you find a location that works for you. With low frequency sounds generated by a sub, you are usually under 100HZ. The sounds are omnidirectional, so sub location can vary depending on room accoustics (the sub doesn't need to be placed in a specific way like your satellites to get the effect). You want to pick a location that lets you take advantage of room gain and, hopefully, doesn't make the sound boomer.


----------



## sid369




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12425464
> 
> 
> You *MUST register for Club Onkyo* which is free. Then the price drops from $239 down to $149. The Club Onkyo registration is on the right side of the page. Then you take 10% off for the holiday special and you get an additional $10 off as a first time Club Onkyo member.



Today the 505 is back on the shoponkyo site and I see the $149 after I registered, but how do I take the 10% off $149. After I add it to cart it goes to the xtended warranty page and when I click no thanks for the warranty it takes me to the checkout page where I see the information that I need to fill. but i don't see anything where the price goes down to $124.


----------



## afrogt

It applies all the discounts before you get to the final checkout page.


Fill in the page with your name, address, etc and put in your CC info and continue onto the next page. You'll see the automatic discounts then. You'll also get a final confirmation page before placing your order.


----------



## sid369

afrogt, thanks for the info. Also does it make sense to get the extended warranty for additional $40.


----------



## afrogt

That's up to you...I never buy extended warranties for anything.


----------



## sid369

a quick stupid question, since I have never have a A/v receiver, so until I buy the Plasma, can I use the a/v receiver to my existing philips 20' tube tv, dvd player, xbox 360 to the onkyo 505. If I can then what cables etc would I need to do this. I am a complete noob so anyone who cares to share some info will have to be explain it in layman's term. Thanks


----------



## afrogt

Depending on age of your 20" TV, probably just composite video cable to the TV and run everything else thru the receiver via composite video and optical/coaxial audio cables. What inputs does your TV have?


----------



## sid369

Connector Type:

1 x headphones ( mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm ) - side

1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - side

1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear

1 x composite video/audio output ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear

1 x S-Video input ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - rear

1 x component video input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear


This is what I got from the walmart website (specifications).

Right now I have the dvd player connected to the 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - side.

and the xbox 360 connected to the 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear.


----------



## confidenceman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12448611
> 
> 
> You can always find better!! lol... This thread was intended for people who want a good, quality home theater sound on a budget. I like the Daytons. Combined with a Sub-100, I think they are an excellent for around $190 and better than anything comparable: Infinity TSS-450 or Polk RM6750 (not that those are bad either, I just think you getter better bang for the buck with Dayton, but all three are better than any HTIB system).



Wow, thanks for the lengthy reply. Your advice in this thread has been incredibly helpful.


I'm pretty new to all of this (obviously), but I think what I'm asking is about "timbre matching." I've searched through the other (higher end) threads, but everyone there always says to buy your fronts and center in tandem to avoid problems with timbre matching.


I think I understand the concept, but I'm not sure how attuned my "taste buds" are to potential timbre differences from mixed brands/series. Is it that noticeable even to those with undeveloped audio taste?


Anyhow, I'll rephrase my noobish questions: let's say I want to upgrade my system in piecemeal fashion. Perhaps I decide I would like to replace my fronts first. How concerned should I be about timbre matching? Is it really that important to keep your fronts and center matched in brand and series?


The reason I was asking about "better" Daytons was because I was thinking that I need to stay consistent with the brand for the sake of timbre matching.


Since I have a 7.1 capable AVR (onkyo 605), it's very possible in the future that I might get a new set of fronts and shift the Dayton sats to the sides and rear. Would you suggest replacing the center speaker at the same time?


Sorry if my questions are confusing or don't make a lot of sense. I'm still in the process of trying to learn all of this stuff. Thanks to set2374 and anyone else who can give me some advice here.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12451137
> 
> 
> Connector Type:
> 
> 1 x headphones ( mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm ) - side
> 
> 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - side
> 
> 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear
> 
> 1 x composite video/audio output ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear
> 
> 1 x S-Video input ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - rear
> 
> 1 x component video input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear
> 
> 
> This is what I got from the walmart website (specifications).
> 
> Right now I have the dvd player connected to the 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - side.
> 
> and the xbox 360 connected to the 1 x composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear.



If its not going to be long before buying your plasma TV, just run your current composite cables thru the receiver and then one set out to the TV.


No point buying new component video cables if its not going to be long before replacing your TV.


If you Xbox 360 and DVD player have digital outputs either coaxial or optical, run them to the receiver also. Then you can get 5.1 digital sound when you watch movies or play games.


----------



## isu1648

I have a small apartment as well, so i couldnt go all out for sound. i have an LG 42LB5D, which i use with a PS3, Toshiba HD-A20, a computer for downloaded movies and tv shows, and comcast HD cable.


The system i have is the Sony HT-DDW790. It's a VERY basic HTIB 5.1 system. Comes with receiver, 5 speakers, and Sub.


Great basic starter system where you cant break the bank for something, but still want something decent. I worked at Best Buy when i got it, so i used an Employee discount, but even so, the system is only in the $175-$200 range.


The system doesnt support HDMI, but it has 1 Digital Optical In, 1 Digital Coax in, 3 Analog RCA In, and a digital media port on the front. Also has an Auto-Calibration system to make setup easy.


Spending upwards of $500 on a "filler" system before you go all out is just ridiculous. I'd recommend this system to anyone, i love it and have never had any problems. The sound quality is great, volume has some room for improvement, but thats not a problem when you have an apartment with neighbors just one wall away.


Sony HT-DDW790.....I highly recommend.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1166840609889


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *confidenceman* /forum/post/12451153
> 
> 
> Wow, thanks for the lengthy reply. Your advice in this thread has been incredibly helpful.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty new to all of this (obviously), but I think what I'm asking is about "timbre matching." I've searched through the other (higher end) threads, but everyone there always says to buy your fronts and center in tandem to avoid problems with timbre matching.
> 
> 
> I think I understand the concept, but I'm not sure how attuned my "taste buds" are to potential timbre differences from mixed brands/series. Is it that noticeable even to those with undeveloped audio taste?
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I'll rephrase my noobish questions: let's say I want to upgrade my system in piecemeal fashion. Perhaps I decide I would like to replace my fronts first. How concerned should I be about timbre matching? Is it really that important to keep your fronts and center matched in brand and series?
> 
> 
> The reason I was asking about "better" Daytons was because I was thinking that I need to stay consistent with the brand for the sake of timbre matching.
> 
> 
> Since I have a 7.1 capable AVR (onkyo 605), it's very possible in the future that I might get a new set of fronts and shift the Dayton sats to the sides and rear. Would you suggest replacing the center speaker at the same time?
> 
> 
> Sorry if my questions are confusing or don't make a lot of sense. I'm still in the process of trying to learn all of this stuff. Thanks to set2374 and anyone else who can give me some advice here.



I don't think there is such a thing as "better daytons". As far as I know, at least for now, the Dayton HTS-1200 are their only line of fully assembled speakers (not counting subs). Dayton is primarily a component manufacturer. They make drivers that are used by other manufacturers and do it yourselfers, along with speaker kits (where they give you the parts and you build the speakers yourself). The 1200's are their first attempt at a fully assempled 5 speaker package. If you're planning on upgrading down the road, you'll probably end up upgrading the whole system from the Daytons to something else. You can always add an additional two satellites (I think parts express charges $33 dollars for the satellites individually). Frankly, very few home theaters can really do 7.1 justice. you really need very specific type of set up and the benefit is pretty minimal. Even in bluRay and HD DVD, there are very few movies out with 7.1 tracks and no receivers under $500 that can process TrueHD or equivalent. For most people, 5.1 is enough and upgrading to 7.1 will actually reduce the benefit of surround sound. A properly set up 5.1 system is superior to a incorrectly setup 7.1 system.


If you think you're going to want floor standing speakers down the road, the 1200 may not do the job for you. If you're looking for an alternative to a HTIB or bose cube type speakers for a fraction of the cost, the 1200 is awesome.


----------



## TZOH

Based on the comments above, it sounds like the Polk RM10 system would be a very good starter system. I'm trying to put together a Ht system for under $800. My room is about 22X18.


Cc has the Polk 6880 package (five Rm101s, 1 RM 201 and a very chaep sub) for about $450. Is the 6880 system the same as the RM 10? Is this a good way start?


I don't have a reciever yet but was considering the Onkyo 505. Any comment or help would be appreciated.


Thanks.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TZOH* /forum/post/12454283
> 
> 
> Based on the comments above, it sounds like the Polk RM10 system would be a very good starter system. I'm trying to put together a Ht system for under $800. My room is about 22X18.
> 
> 
> Cc has the Polk 6880 package (five Rm101s, 1 RM 201 and a very chaep sub) for about $450. Is the 6880 system the same as the RM 10? Is this a good way start?
> 
> 
> I don't have a reciever yet but was considering the Onkyo 505. Any comment or help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



The 6880 is the replacement for the RM10. The RM10's are still available and I think the changes to the line are more cosmetic than anything else. You'd have to call Polk to get a list of the changes... I dont' think it's much though. Since the RM10s are going for around $200 less, I think they are a great deal.


----------



## TZOH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12455295
> 
> 
> The 6880 is the replacement for the RM10. The RM10's are still available and I think the changes to the line are more cosmetic than anything else. You'd have to call Polk to get a list of the changes... I dont' think it's much though. Since the RM10s are going for around $200 less, I think they are a great deal.



Does the $200 price for the RM10s include the center speaker?


where can I find the deal?


----------



## joe01880




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HunterX82* /forum/post/12230671
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a beginners type surround sound system (5.1 at least). I am in an apartment with people above me, and would like to spend no more than $500. I hear from my friends and reading here that the receiver is the most important. Can I get away with pretty cheap speakers (for now) and buy a 300-400$ receiver? Or should I just get a 5.1 system from costco for 250 and focus on a nice set later?
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung LNT4665F coming to my door sometime next week. I mostly watch TV through my cable HD box...though by spring I want to have my own HTPC together. I will also play games via xbox or pc connection sometimes, too.
> 
> 
> Thanks all!!



Having lived in an aparment before and having people in the building with no respect what so ever when playing their systems entirely to loud and when they were not stomping on the floor their bass was thumping it i would recomend any system you can afford and a good set of HEAD PHONES!!


----------



## sid369

Last night my wife and I went to CC and saw the Onkyo 505, and to be honest she was not digging how the Onkyo, neither did I, but I told her that looks don't matter its the quality and the sound that is important. Then we also stopped over at BB to check out the H/K 146 and she liked how the H/K looked, now I am torn between the two sets. the H/K is 5.1 and the Onkyo is 7.1, Will I need a 7.1 system now, I don't think so.


Onkyo 505 is cheaper than the H/K 146, what should I do, which among the two has greater features and which one should I choose. Please Set2374, afrogt and others your input is required here.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12458457
> 
> 
> Last night my wife and I went to CC and saw the Onkyo 505, and to be honest she was not digging how the Onkyo, neither did I, but I told her that looks don't matter its the quality and the sound that is important. Then we also stopped over at BB to check out the H/K 146 and she liked how the H/K looked, now I am torn between the two sets. the H/K is 5.1 and the Onkyo is 7.1, Will I need a 7.1 system now, I don't think so.
> 
> 
> Onkyo 505 is cheaper than the H/K 146, what should I do, which among the two has greater features and which one should I choose. Please Set2374, afrogt and others your input is required here.



If sound quality is your main goal, H/K all the way. Their is a reason they cost more in comparison, better amp section, heat sinks and other internals. They are known for the sound quality. Onkyos are an excellent value, you get alot packed into a receiver for the money and they sound great also, but HK is a step above in sound quality. I wouldn't worry about 5.1 vs 7.1, very little difference if any unless you have a huge room and can set everything up properly. 7.1 setups can actually sound worse if you don't have the proper space and not setup correctly.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joe01880* /forum/post/12456688
> 
> 
> Having lived in an aparment before and having people in the building with no respect what so ever when playing their systems entirely to loud and when they were not stomping on the floor their bass was thumping it i would recomend any system you can afford and a good set of HEAD PHONES!!



On that note, let me recommend a pair of Sony MDR-V6 headphones. You can find them for around $70-80 online (try Amazon). They are OUTSTANDING! I was given a pair as a gift in 1994 from a college girlfriend and, aside from replacing the padding, they are still just as prestine as the day I bought them. They have been around since the mid-late 1980's for a good reason, you can't get a better set of headphones for the money--or anywhere under $500 in my opinion. They are full size headphones and you probably won't want to use them with your IPod (need some real juice to run them), but if you want superior quality all around, this is the way to go. [edit: I orderd a pair of SR80's these for my dad for the holidays]


For IPod use, I like the Grado SR60 ($69) or SR80. Both models are handbuilt in Brooklyn, NY and they have the absolute best sound quality bar none for under $100 (and I think they are just about the best sounding headphones under $1000 period). The only negative is that they are an open design, which means you have great bass response, but you have a lot of sound leakage (your neighbor is going to be able to enjoy your music with you) and outside sounds can penetrate. These, along with the Sony's, are, without a doubt, audiophile grade headphones and are steals for under $100.


----------



## fatalysis

After purchasing the Onyko 505 this past weekend, I finally got around to opening the box tonight and ran into a little issue - the receiver fits snugly into my Ikea Lack tv stand. There's probably less than an inch of clearance between the top of the receiver and the stand, probably not good for ventilation purposes.


Since this is the only piece of equipment that will not fit and I'm working with a pretty small space, I was thinking of purchasing the matching Ikea Lack side table ( http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80104268 ). The dimensions of the table are approximately 21"L x 21"W x 17 3/4"H which is bigger than the size of the dayton sub-100 I ordered (sub measures approx 17"L x 15"W x 16 3/4"H).


I was thinking of using the space underneath the table to slide the sub flush with the front of the table (if the sub fits) or if that's not recommended, placing the sub directly in front of the table. Do you foresee any issues with doing either? My friend thought that the vibrations caused by the sub would affect the receiver, but since I live in an apartment and don't want my neighbor's pictures to shake or fall, I doubt that the sub will cause major floor shaking.


Appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fatalysis* /forum/post/12465580
> 
> 
> After purchasing the Onyko 505 this past weekend, I finally got around to opening the box tonight and ran into a little issue - the receiver fits snugly into my Ikea Lack tv stand. There's probably less than an inch of clearance between the top of the receiver and the stand, probably not good for ventilation purposes.
> 
> 
> Since this is the only piece of equipment that will not fit and I'm working with a pretty small space, I was thinking of purchasing the matching Ikea Lack side table ( http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80104268 ). The dimensions of the table are approximately 21"L x 21"W x 17 3/4"H which is bigger than the size of the dayton sub-100 I ordered (sub measures approx 17"L x 15"W x 16 3/4"H).
> 
> 
> I was thinking of using the space underneath the table to slide the sub flush with the front of the table (if the sub fits) or if that's not recommended, placing the sub directly in front of the table. Do you foresee any issues with doing either? My friend thought that the vibrations caused by the sub would affect the receiver, but since I live in an apartment and don't want my neighbor's pictures to shake or fall, I doubt that the sub will cause major floor shaking.
> 
> 
> Appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!




Dude, my advice stops at equipment. When it comes to decorating (my wife's territory), you're on your own!







I would put my crap on top of milk cartons if I had to!


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12459199
> 
> 
> ...For IPod use, I like the Grado SR60 ($69) or SR80. Both models are handbuilt in Brooklyn, NY and they have the absolute best sound quality bar none for under $100 (and I think they are just about the best sounding headphones under $1000 period). The only negative is that they are an open design, which means you have great bass response, but you have a lot of sound leakage (your neighbor is going to be able to enjoy your music with you) and outside sounds can penetrate. These, along with the Sony's, are, without a doubt, audiophile grade headphones and are steals for under $100.



I couldn't agree more about the Grado SR60. My sister (who has bucks) bought me these about 5-10 years ago for Christmas. I'd never heard of Grado, they don't look like much, and I'd never really liked headphones. After using them, though, I told her they sounded better than any headphone I'd ever used and chastised her for spending so much money on me. She said not to worry, they weren't that expensive yet they came highly recommended to her. The wiring flakes out on them occasionally now that they're older and I can get drop-outs until I reposition the wires, but they still sound great.


----------



## fatalysis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12466175
> 
> 
> Dude, my advice stops at equipment. When it comes to decorating (my wife's territory), you're on your own!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would put my crap on top of milk cartons if I had to!



So there aren't any issues with how close the sub would be next to the receiver?


----------



## sid369

Guys can someone tell me if the Onkyo 505 or the H/K have any issues with LIP SYNC. Can make my mind between these two systems.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12458457
> 
> 
> Last night my wife and I went to CC and saw the Onkyo 505, and to be honest she was not digging how the Onkyo, neither did I, but I told her that looks don't matter its the quality and the sound that is important. Then we also stopped over at BB to check out the H/K 146 and she liked how the H/K looked, now I am torn between the two sets. the H/K is 5.1 and the Onkyo is 7.1, Will I need a 7.1 system now, I don't think so.
> 
> 
> Onkyo 505 is cheaper than the H/K 146, what should I do, which among the two has greater features and which one should I choose. Please Set2374, afrogt and others your input is required here.



Sid, I am sorry if I didn't respond to your question. Either way you go, you're not making a bad choice. If your wife likes the look of the H/K more and afrogt and I agree we like the sound more on the H/K, maybe that's the way to go. One consideration though--the H/K is physically larger, so keep that in mind for placement/furniture purposes. The Onkyo has a better reputation for reliability. Anyway, these are the fun choices in life. I personally would probably go with the H/K all things being equal. If one is on sale or there is more than a $50 dollar difference in price, I probably pick the cheaper one. You can't really make a mistake on this one. I haven't really played with a 505 or 146. My cousin has an Onkyo 504 (the last model) and he loves it. I had an H/K 145, which I sold when I traded up to the Pioneer. I think I prefer the sound of the H/K to the pioneer. It was a bit warmer and had less of an edge to it. I wanted to move up to a 7.1 system, so... i got rid of the h/k. To be honest, I probably made a mistake switching to 7.1 because my room is not really well suited for it. I should have kept the H/k and waited a couple of years until the price of AVR's capable of processing TrueHD and other HD level formats comes down. I would still recommend the pioneer (i have the vsx-1016) and think it's a great receiver, but it probably wasn't necessary and I do prefer the sound on the h/k. The main difference between the 145 I had and the 146 is the 146 has hdmi switching and the 145 did not. The rest of it is basically the same. The new 147 adds a little power, but I didn't have a problem at all powering my towers with the 145. So, in the end, you live and learn.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12468440
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more about the Grado SR60. My sister (who has bucks) bought me these about 5-10 years ago for Christmas. I'd never heard of Grado, they don't look like much, and I'd never really liked headphones. After using them, though, I told her they sounded better than any headphone I'd ever used and chastised her for spending so much money on me. She said not to worry, they weren't that expensive yet they came highly recommended to her. The wiring flakes out on them occasionally now that they're older and I can get drop-outs until I reposition the wires, but they still sound great.



I love the Grado's. I can't believe they sell them for $69. They are literally hand made in a basement factory in a row house in brooklyn that the company owner lives above. Everythign on the SR60, for injection molding to production of the driver is done by hand. I had the same problem with my wire on the sr60's. In fact, the rubber split the copper is exposed which makes if really hard to use without getting a nasty sound. I have had them for 4 years and beat them up (the've been stuffed into gym bags, gone to the beach etc), so I am not holding the wire issue against them at all... It's my fault. I bought my dad the SR80's because they have a thicker wire and thicker ear cushions. When I have some spare cash, I'll pick up a pair for myself.


Nothing (including the Grados) holds a candle to my Sony MDR V6-- although I haven't tried any of the high end Grados ($500 plus). If the cheap grados are that good, I am sure their high end must be unreal!!!


Right now for the Ipod, I am using a pair of JBL Reference 510's that I got for $50 bucks at Costco (supposedly they list for $150). The active noice cancelling is ok on them (nothing to write home about, but at least there is no hiss like on some of NC headphones. The sound quality is good at moderate levels, but it pisses me off that they distort when pushed by the Ipod's measily amp. I have a pair of Koss headphones that I got a while ago that sound better and cost like $15 bucks. Sad!!!


Since Bose is always getting bashed, I figured I woudl throw them one plug. Their QC2 and QC3 noise cancelling headphones are pretty darn good. I have tried a lot of noise cancelling headphones: JVC HNC-100's, JBL Reference 510s, Sony NC6, QC3, QC3, Sennheiser PCX 250 and 300 to name a few. I had the Sennheiser PCX 250 for a month and loved it--then the left speaker crapped out and would come in and out, so I returned it. Although most people don't like the Sony NC6, I actually liked them--so, I'll be the outlayer. I thought the noise cancelling was pretty good (CNET disagrees) and it had good definition. It did lack bass, but for $39 at CC, not a bad choice. CNET liked the JVC's, so I bought them for my wife. I like that they have a cord that automatically rewinds into the headset (great feature, don't know why other companies don't follow suit) and they have pretty good sound. The noise cancelling is weak though and it creates a very noticeable hiss. The Bose QC2 and QC3 both had outstanding noise cancelling--nothing else really came close. The sound quality though was just slightly above average. I guess if you are looking for good noise cancelling, you're willing to sacrifice a little on overall sound quality. I have tried them a whole bunch of times, but I have not coughing up $300 and $350 for headphones. Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but I have been on the hunt for a good noise cancelling headphone under $100 and I just wanted to share with my new friends.


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12471197
> 
> 
> Guys can someone tell me if the Onkyo 505 or the H/K have any issues with LIP SYNC. Can make my mind between these two systems.



sid369, I just bought the h/k 146. I can't tell you whether the receiver has lip sync issues, but it does have a feature that can correct for it. If your TV has to do a significant amount of video processing or the video source is delayed, the 146 can delay the audio up to 80 msec to compensate.


----------



## afrogt

If the price is close, I'd get the 147 over the 146. A little more power, the EZSet EQ feature, XM connectivity, and optical digital output.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12481562
> 
> 
> If the price is close, I'd get the 147 over the 146. A little more power, the EZSet EQ feature, XM connectivity, and optical digital output.



When I looked a couple of weeks ago, there was a pretty big price difference between the 147 and 146. I think the 146 is getting discounted steeply because of the 147. There was a sale on the 147 around BF at fry's, but the price went back up. I personally never use the auto set up features (I have and SPL meter and tape measure and like to work it out on my own-- but most people would think I am nuts). The extra power is nice (who doesn't want more power?) and the optical output is nice.. particularly if you want to add another amp/receiver to run a different zone in another part of your house.


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12481718
> 
> 
> When I looked a couple of weeks ago, there was a pretty big price difference between the 147 and 146. I think the 146 is getting discounted steeply because of the 147. There was a sale on the 147 around BF at fry's, but the price went back up.



When I bought my 146 at frys in late November, both the 146 and the 147 were on sale for the same price: $207 shipped. Naturally, I would have bought the 147, but it was not in stock, and I didn't see much difference. Until reading frogt's post above, I didn't realize there was any difference between the units except power. But I'm happy with what the 146 puts out. You have to turn the volume knob a lot (the volume scales slowly), but it gets as loud as I can stand, and there's still a lot of clarity at that level.


----------



## sid369

Ok, So I am so near to pull the trigger but still not sure on which one, I can do a max of $200 on the receiver.


For speakers I am thinking of getting the Polk R150 for the front now and add two floor standing speakers in the front later and use the R150 as rear speakers later. However, if I go with set2374's advice and get the Dayton HTS 1200 then I get a complete speaker set with CSR. for $89. Now from looking at the Dayton 1200, it looks like the speakers are really small, will it provide enough sound since the size of the speakers is small.


As for the receiver goes like I said $200. Set2374 said that he does not like refurbs and I can get 505 refurb for $124 and for the H/K 146 refurb I can get it for $220. So if go with refurb, it makes more sense to go with the onkyo. Now if I buy a new one, then my budget for receiver will exceed and I guess I saw the H/K at BB for around $280 and onkyo 505 at CC for $269.


So guys should I buy refurb? If I buy a new one since the price is close between the two which one Onkyo or H/K.


I am sorry for probably asking the same question many times, I am torn because the guys who know about these things recommend H/K and the price of teh Onkyo is so good, its tempting, so don't know what to do.


----------



## sid369

One more thing to add

Which set up is more preferred:

Receiver: undecided between 505 and 146

Speakers: Polk 4 X R150= $100

CSR: later (month or two)

Sub:later (month or two)


OR

Receiver: undecided between 505 and 146

Speakers: Dayton HTS 1200 = $85

CSR: included in HTS 1200

Sub:later (month or two)


also, since I live in an apartment, is there a solution to get the rear speakers to work without having to go through the trouble of running wires from the front to the back of the room. Possibly wirelessly, if so how can I do with either of the speaker option provided above? can this be done? will it loose any sound quality?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12491498
> 
> 
> One more thing to add
> 
> Which set up is more preferred:
> 
> Receiver: undecided between 505 and 146
> 
> Speakers: Polk 4 X R150= $100
> 
> CSR: later (month or two)
> 
> Sub:later (month or two)
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> Receiver: undecided between 505 and 146
> 
> Speakers: Dayton HTS 1200 = $85
> 
> CSR: included in HTS 1200
> 
> Sub:later (month or two)
> 
> 
> also, since I live in an apartment, is there a solution to get the rear speakers to work without having to go through the trouble of running wires from the front to the back of the room. Possibly wirelessly, if so how can I do with either of the speaker option provided above? can this be done? will it loose any sound quality?



SQ wise I can't help and that's mostly preference anyway. The difference in driver size would be the deciding factor for me. The R150s have a 5.25" in a larger cabinet compared to 3.75" for the Dayton system. If it's anything but a small room and space isn't an issue with speaker placement I'd go with the Polk System.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12491577
> 
> 
> SQ wise I can't help and that's mostly preference anyway. The difference in driver size would be the deciding factor for me. The R150s have a 5.25" in a larger cabinet compared to 3.75" for the Dayton system. If it's anything but a small room and space isn't an issue with speaker placement I'd go with the Polk System.



I agree... I recommended the Dayton if you wanted to go for a decent, inexpensive satellite speaker. If you don't mind/want a bigger speaker, I would go for the Polks. In terms of pure sound quality, the Polks will probably sound a little better (not a knock on the daytons at all... i like them).


----------



## sid369




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12491498
> 
> 
> also, since I live in an apartment, is there a solution to get the rear speakers to work without having to go through the trouble of running wires from the front to the back of the room. Possibly wirelessly, if so how can I do with either of the speaker option provided above? can this be done? will it loose any sound quality?



Anyone would like to answer this question?


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> As for the receiver goes like I said $200. Set2374 said that he does not like refurbs and I can get 505 refurb for $124 and for the H/K 146 refurb I can get it for $220. So if go with refurb, it makes more sense to go with the onkyo. Now if I buy a new one, then my budget for receiver will exceed and I guess I saw the H/K at BB for around $280 and onkyo 505 at CC for $269.
> 
> 
> So guys should I buy refurb? If I buy a new one since the price is close between the two which one Onkyo or H/K.




If you're willing to to spend up to $280 on your receiver, get the Marantz 4001 for $249 instead. It processes HDMI and is better sounding than the Onkyo 505. Its feature set compares directly with the Onkyo 604 but I think Marantz and HK both sound better than Onkyos.


Plus it also comes with 7.1 preouts in case you want to connect a more powerful amp in the future.


----------



## sid369

I am no audiophile in any way or form. I listed to a samsung HTIB at CC and was happy with it. Of course i don't know the difference between an crappy HTIB system and an excellent receiver. I guess I am just getting caught up with all this and its really overwhelming. I think I don't have the ears to distinguish between the average sound and and excellent sound quality. Just getting a decent receiver like the onkyo or the H/k and now to add to the list Marantz, i think I will be pretty satisfied. I am not sure, if I should just save some money and get the onkyo or look into the H/K and marantz. i don't know if i will be able to distinguish the SQ between them. But a lot of you are saying that the H/K or the Marantz is better than the Onkyo 505.


Do you guys think I will be able to hard the difference between them. Also Afrogt, where did you find the Marantz 4001 for $249.


----------



## Kingcarcas

I'm in the same boat as you sid.


----------



## Darkhunter139




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12493191
> 
> 
> Anyone would like to answer this question?



You could use this

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1171058476489 


But of course there will be some quality loss. I have never actually heard them so I can not say how much.


----------



## confidenceman

Just wanted to follow up: got my Dayton 1200b system and sub-100 on Friday. Set it up yesterday, and I'm very happy with it so far.


Still working out some of the kinks (still trying to get the subwoofer just right), but for my room it's a perfect audio fit! Admittedly, my living room's pretty tiny (roughly 14'x12'x14'), and I was a little worried about the tall ceilings. But no recognizable issues.


My biggest surprise: having the system on a low volume but still feeling a full, crisp sound. No longer do I have to pause a movie or game to have a conversation with my fiancee!







Multi-tasking FTW!


I'm also impressed by how little the sound "bleeds" into other rooms. This probably has more to do with the positioning effects of 5.1 than with the speakers themselves, but it's still awesome.


Since I'm pretty limited on space, it was nice to be able to wall-mount all the fronts and sats (which is why I didn't go with bookshelf speakers). This was one of my bigger concerns since it seems pretty difficult to find decent and reasonably priced mountable speakers. Fully meets WAF.


@sid369: the dayton sats are small, but they're not tiny. They suit an apartment-sized room ideally. They were also heavier than I thought they'd be, so I had to be more thorough in my wall-mounting skills than I assumed I'd need to be.


The speakers are a little brighter sounding than I expected, but I've been using my old bose bookshelves for close to two decades, so it'll take a while for my ears to adjust. Plus, I'm still working on the sub calibration.


Thanks all for the advice!


----------



## sid369

I went to CC last night AGAIN, and I asked one of the sales rep to play the onkyo 505 with the Polk speakers I guess it was monitor 30 or something I don't remember correctly. I have to say that I was not that impressed with the sound. I turned the volume to 60 only then was I able to hear the sound coming out other wise it was pretty dull. It did not sound clear and crisp, So I wanted to know why did it sound the way it did. I am planning to stop by BB today and check out how the H/K sounds like?


My wife kept insisting about getting a HTIB, since he likes the idea of everything coming in a box and just buying it from one place. I have not looked into HTIB but now the idea is somewhat coming in my head that I should probably get a HTIB. Would you guys be able to convince me, why a HTIB is not good compared to a separate receiver and speaker system.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12317549
> 
> 
> I am a little confused about what your plan is for the system??? I don't think I ever recommended mixing the Dayton satellites with with polk R50's or any other polks. I did recommend the R50 fronts, R150's for rears, and a CSR center with the Dayton Subs.
> 
> 
> The Polk R50's are great fronts, but it's important to make sure that your speakers are timbre matched. The R50's are big, powerful fronts and you're going to want to them matched with a center and surrounds that compliment them. The dayton HTS-1200 is a 5 satellite system where all speakers come matched, the only thing you would need to add is a sub. If you're going the bigger route, I recommended the R50's with R150 rear satellites and a CSR center. You're fine with the Dayton Sub-100; however, I don't know if I would mix the dayton satellites and center with the R50's. I can't imagine that sounding very balanced. Fortunately, Parts Express has a pretty good return policy and I would probably send the satellites back and order a pair of R150's and a CSR--you can give them a try though and see how they sound with the R50's. I just don't want you to be disappointed in the result.
> 
> 
> By way of background, timbre matching is important because you want the entire sound field to blend. For example, when an F-15 is flying across the front of the soundstage, you don't want it to sound like a cessna when the sound hits your small center speaker. When speakers are properly timbre matched, this won't happen. It's possible to timbre match different brand speakers, but this hard to do for a beginner. The easiest way to ensure timbre matching is to buy equipment from the same company and in the same line. The only exception is with your sub... subs don't require timbre matching because at less than 80's HZ, the human ear can't really distinguish any difference in timbre. With a sub though, you would still want it to be powerful enough to blend with your fronts (which are powerful). The sub-100 should be sufficient in a room under 500 square feet (and probably even under 700--depending on how much of a base head you are).



Just catching up on this thread...but I too came into it looking for a recommendation for a good HTIB system, and am shocked at how economical it is to put together (what is for my current apt and tech level) a much better system. I'm considering what you outlined above...the two R50's for the front, R150s for the rear ($222 including shipping from fry's), and then a CSR center channel. That puts me at just over $400 with shipping and all I need is the receiver. I was actually considering spending $600 on a panasonic HTIB system before opening this thread. Thanks for all the input for the less tech savvy, late entrants into this world..much appreciated!


----------



## chitown_badger

Ok...after thinking this over and seeing that the Polk R50s are only available in cherry (I prefer black), I'm wondering if a better option wouldn't be to snag four R150s for front (do they have enough "umph" for front speakers?) and surround speakers, the CSR center and then pick up the dayton 10" sub...for a total of about $280 before shipping. Considering that I too live in a multi unit apt, with a small living room that's about 12x15 (with hard wood floors, higher ceilings...so sound is not absorbed), and of course neighbors to consider. This setup is not only cheaper, but also conserves some space. Is this a decent entry level setup? I'm going to be pairing them with a 50" Panasonic px75u.


It sounds like the way to go UNLESS, there are other floor standing speakers to consider that would prevent me from having to buy the sub. And if I buy a 7.1 receiver, I can eventually upgrade to the floor standing and use these four for surround and side. Thoughts? (I see that the Polk Audio RM6750 is about the same price, but I'd probably prefer the component setup so I can upgrade in the future).


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chitown_badger* /forum/post/12515214
> 
> 
> Ok...after thinking this over and seeing that the Polk R50s are only available in cherry (I prefer black), I'm wondering if a better option wouldn't be to snag four R150s for front (do they have enough "umph" for front speakers?) and surround speakers, the CSR center and then pick up the dayton 10" sub...for a total of about $280 before shipping. Considering that I too live in a multi unit apt, with a small living room that's about 12x15 (with hard wood floors, higher ceilings...so sound is not absorbed), and of course neighbors to consider. This setup is not only cheaper, but also conserves some space. Is this a decent entry level setup? I'm going to be pairing them with a 50" Panasonic px75u.
> 
> 
> It sounds like the way to go UNLESS, there are other floor standing speakers to consider that would prevent me from having to buy the sub. And if I buy a 7.1 receiver, I can eventually upgrade to the floor standing and use these four for surround and side. Thoughts? (I see that the Polk Audio RM6750 is about the same price, but I'd probably prefer the component setup so I can upgrade in the future).



You're going to need to buy a sub either way if HT is involved. Floor speakers or not they aren't designed to handle the lower frequency range where a lot of HT effects are.


The R150s would work great in your setup with a good sub. The only change I'd personally make is use the money you saved on the speakers and go with a better quality sub, either the Bic H-100 or AV123 X-Sub.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12515392
> 
> 
> You're going to need to buy a sub either way if HT is involved. Floor speakers or not they aren't designed to handle the lower frequency range where a lot of HT effects are.
> 
> 
> The R150s would work great in your setup with a good sub. The only change I'd personally make is use the money you saved on the speakers and go with a better quality sub, either the Bic H-100 or AV123 X-Sub.



THanks for the reply...but what is HT? Not suprisingly, you're dealing with a newbie here


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chitown_badger* /forum/post/12515408
> 
> 
> THanks for the reply...but what is HT? Not suprisingly, you're dealing with a newbie here



HT is Home theater listening as opposed to just using for music. Music for the most part doesn't have output in the ultra low frequencies like Movies can so a pair of Floor speakers might be ok if it was strictly for music listening but for HT-Movies you'll miss alot of the special effects in the lower frequencies.


----------



## zenkimods

0_o This is just the type of thread I have been looking for!


Theres so much excellent advise in this thread. I actually only read the first 2 pages and this last page







but there people already asked the same questions I was going to post.


So far it looks like I am going to put together a setup instead of buying a HTIB. The only thing is the receiver puts be back more than I wanted to spend. Basically Im looking for a setup for my room. Its a little bigger than average. I have a Samsung 40" and Im not impressed with the sound at all. I was about to get the pioneer xbox 5.1, but now I want to put together a setup that was recommended in this thread. I basically just watch hd movies from my HTPC and play xbox 360. I would like a 5.1 setup, but with my money constraint, I wouldnt mind a 2.1/3.1 setup. I would be able to upgrade to 5.1 with a purchase of r50s down the road.


I was thinking of getting a refurb H/K 145(anyone have a link?) and Polk R150s for the front. For the sub I would like something that doesnt take up too much space. This is a big issue for me because, this is still my bedroom. The more compact, the better. Last the center channel, I have no clue if I should or shouldnt. What do you recommend? Are there any other speaker brand recommendations on the same level as the polk r150s?


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12515483
> 
> 
> HT is Home theater listening as opposed to just using for music. Music for the most part doesn't have output in the ultra low frequencies like Movies can so a pair of Floor speakers might be ok if it was strictly for music listening but for HT-Movies you'll miss alot of the special effects in the lower frequencies.



Insert sheepish smiley here! Should have known that. But to respond...it will be used mainly for sports/movies with some music mixed in...so the sub sounds like a must. Thanks again.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12515493
> 
> 
> I was thinking of getting a refurb H/K 145(anyone have a link?) and Polk R150s for the front. For the sub I would like something that doesnt take up too much space. This is a big issue for me because, this is still my bedroom. The more compact, the better. Last the center channel, I have no clue if I should or shouldnt. What do you recommend? Are there any other speaker brand recommendations on the same level as the polk r150s?



Do a search on ebay for the seller harmanaudio. The 145 is a previous model and you should be able to find a refurb from them if not now then soon. I did a quick search and didn't see any 145s but they do have one going for a 146 now that I saw. Anyway these are refurbs sold directly from HK with full factory warranty.


For a small great quality budget sub check ********** for the X-sub. Excellent quality at the price and its only 9"W and also front ported so placement shouldn't be an issue.


The matching center to the 150s is the CSR which last I checked was on sale at frys/overstock.com. If budget is an issue then you could add it later, not a big deal, when you set everything up if you don't have a center your receiver will sent the center speaker information the L and R and give you a good effect of having one.


----------



## sid369

why is the H/k 147-z (refurbished) on the H/K website is showing as $266 as opposed to amazon where the new avr 147 is showing as $256.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...-20******nosim


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12515634
> 
> 
> why is the H/k 147-z (refurbished) on the H/K website is showing as $266 as opposed to amazon where the new avr 147 is showing as $256.
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...-20******nosim



Why ask why? lol that's a great deal from amazon new and with free shipping, if you're in the market for it I'd jump on it. You might be able to get little a better auction price on it if you wanted to wait but for new that amazon price is sweet.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12515631
> 
> 
> Do a search on ebay for the seller harmanaudio. The 145 is a previous model and you should be able to find a refurb from them if not now then soon. I did a quick search and didn't see any 145s but they do have one going for a 146 now that I saw. Anyway these are refurbs sold directly from HK with full factory warranty.
> 
> 
> For a small great quality budget sub check ********** for the X-sub. Excellent quality at the price and its only 9"W and also front ported so placement shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> 
> The matching center to the 150s is the CSR which last I checked was on sale at frys/overstock.com. If budget is an issue then you could add it later, not a big deal, when you set everything up if you don't have a center your receiver will sent the center speaker information the L and R and give you a good effect of having one.



Jake...thanks to you and Set in this thread, I pulled the trigger a half hour ago on a 50 panny PX75u, four Polk R150s, a Polk CSR, and the 10" Polk sub (don't think I need anything more considering my living situation)...total out the door, around $2100







Still figuring out the receiver situation, but with the tv sitting at $1499, and the speakers what they were, I just wanted to get it done. I've been researching the tvs for a few months and haven't seen this model cheaper (from a reputable site or store).


If it wasn't for this thread, I probably would have already spent over $600 on an all in one system. Thanks!


----------



## zenkimods

How is the H/K 144? I see a refurb for 168 and I really like that price!


I checked out the x-sub and I really like that size. Anything else that same size, but a little more budget friendly?


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12516607
> 
> 
> How is the H/K 144? I see a refurb for 168 and I really like that price!
> 
> 
> I checked out the x-sub and I really like that size. Anything else that same size, but a little more budget friendly?



Based on what I've read in this thread, I bought the 10" Polk sub...amazon.com, $101 with free shipping. Supposed to be good quality and I'm almost positive it will be more than I need for my setup.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12515634
> 
> 
> why is the H/k 147-z (refurbished) on the H/K website is showing as $266 as opposed to amazon where the new avr 147 is showing as $256.
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...-20******nosim



This is probably an elementary question, but isn't the HK unit a little underpowered? It says it only delivers 40 watts per channel, whereas the onkyo SR 505 is not only 7.1 channel, but it delivers 75 watts per channel. What gives?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chitown_badger* /forum/post/12516908
> 
> 
> Based on what I've read in this thread, I bought the 10" Polk sub...amazon.com, $101 with free shipping. Supposed to be good quality and I'm almost positive it will be more than I need for my setup.



Congrats! I have been out of the box for a couple of days, but I am glad you picked out a system that you're going to be very happy with. For a $100, I don't see how you can go wrong with a PSW10. In a small room, it should be ok. If I recall correctly, I think it's a 50 watt amp, which is a little light, but the reviewers seem to find that it performs a lot better than the specs would indicate. If it proves not to be enough power for you, you can always upgrade down the road--or just add a second PSW10. I personally prefer the dayton, but the polk gets a good review on CNET and it's a nice looking sub (the Dayton is a bit drab--but I didn't buy it for its looks).


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12515631
> 
> 
> Do a search on ebay for the seller harmanaudio. The 145 is a previous model and you should be able to find a refurb from them if not now then soon. I did a quick search and didn't see any 145s but they do have one going for a 146 now that I saw. Anyway these are refurbs sold directly from HK with full factory warranty.
> 
> 
> For a small great quality budget sub check ********** for the X-sub. Excellent quality at the price and its only 9"W and also front ported so placement shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> 
> The matching center to the 150s is the CSR which last I checked was on sale at frys/overstock.com. If budget is an issue then you could add it later, not a big deal, when you set everything up if you don't have a center your receiver will sent the center speaker information the L and R and give you a good effect of having one.




I have an X-Sub in my bedroom, which is on the small side. The X-sub is definitely small. It's a very musical sub for the money and has good bass response, but it's not going to knock any pictures off the wall (and I have yet to hear any 8inch that will). My one knock on av123, is the ording and shipping time is a bit slow. If you can handle a little bit more size and a little more money (at some point you have to say, enough is enough and fix the budget, but if you have some flexibitlity....) I would go for the BIC H-100. I don't know anyone that has it and isn't very happy. I think it goes for a $25 to $50 more... but the x-sub shipping was expensive--- so, in the end, they may cost approximately the same amount.


----------



## zenkimods

Thanks for the advice on the subs.


Whats the word on the H/K 144? Im still a noob with receivers and HT in general so I wouldnt know what the specs really mean.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12517440
> 
> 
> Congrats! I have been out of the box for a couple of days, but I am glad you picked out a system that you're going to be very happy with. For a $100, I don't see how you can go wrong with a PSW10. In a small room, it should be ok. If I recall correctly, I think it's a 50 watt amp, which is a little light, but the reviewers seem to find that it performs a lot better than the specs would indicate. If it proves not to be enough power for you, you can always upgrade down the road--or just add a second PSW10. I personally prefer the dayton, but the polk gets a good review on CNET and it's a nice looking sub (the Dayton is a bit drab--but I didn't buy it for its looks).



I totally just realized I bought the wrong one and that I wanted the Dayton. I called Amazon and they were able to cancel the order. I'm going to get the Dayton now, but I'm wondering how that works, if the receiver I buy only outputs ~75 watts per channel, does it matter if the sub is 100 watts, or for that matter 1 million watts?


(Just ordered the Dayton...it was $35 more with shipping, but should be worth it!)


----------



## afrogt

The subwoofer has nothing to do with the power of the receiver. All 3 of my subs claim to put out 150 watts or more and all my receivers are between 55 and 75 watts. It doesn't matter one bit.


All you're doing is running a cable from the receiver, which sends a signal to the sub. No power is being sent.


----------



## zenkimods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12517517
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice on the subs.
> 
> 
> Whats the word on the H/K 144? Im still a noob with receivers and HT in general so I wouldnt know what the specs really mean.



Looks like the 144 does not do HDMI







Oh well, I guess Im going to get the 147


----------



## sid369

I was somewhat disappointed by how the 505 and the polk monitor speakers sounded at CC, is there a possibility that it was not properly set up thats why I did not like the sound. In short I think I like the sound to be bright, more treble, it should sound crystal clear. can all these be achieved after setting up at home with the onkyo 505, the ones I heard at CC sounded dull for some reason.

Or do you guys think the H/K have more bright sound.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12522184
> 
> 
> I was somewhat disappointed by how the 505 and the polk monitor speakers sounded at CC, is there a possibility that it was not properly set up thats why I did not like the sound. In short I think I like the sound to be bright, more treble, it should sound crystal clear. can all these be achieved after setting up at home with the onkyo 505, the ones I heard at CC sounded dull for some reason.
> 
> Or do you guys think the H/K have more bright sound.



I would be interested in the answer to this question as well....as I am considering these two receivers. Probably moreso the Onkyo because it is 7.1 and I can see that coming in handy in a few years.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> This is probably an elementary question, but isn't the HK unit a little underpowered? It says it only delivers 40 watts per channel, whereas the onkyo SR 505 is not only 7.1 channel, but it delivers 75 watts per channel. What gives?



Being a HK and Onkyo receiver owner, I'm pretty confident the HK 144 with 40 watts will have as much power as the Onkyo 505. My HK claims 50 watts per channel while my Onkyo is 75 watts. My HK is easily more powerful than the Onkyo. Louder and cleaner.


Manufactures measure the power of their receivers differently. But you can be rest assured the HK is powerful enough unless you're in a huge room.


Of course why buy the HK 144 for $168 when you can get the more featured 240, 335 and 340 from $175- $200 on Harman's ebay store? And if you have to have the HDMI inputs the 147 goes under $200 also. But remember, the HDMI on the 147 doesn't process audio, just sends video thru the receiver and onto the TV. You'll still have to use optical or digital coaxial inputs for sound.


----------



## sid369

Does anybody know about these Insignia speakers from best buy. If anyone has any experience with them, how are they? Are they better than the Polk R150's. These are expensive than the Polk R150.


----------



## afrogt

There's a huge thread on the Insignias in the speaker forum. And they're not always more expensive than the Polk 150. They were $49/pr just last week, which would be cheaper than the Polks since you don't have to pay shipping.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=insignia 


Are they better than the Polks? That would be up to you. But you can try them at home and if you don't like them, return it to Best Buy 30 days.


----------



## zenkimods

I was actually looking to get those, but decided on the polks instead. I bought the polks for $54, no shipping as they now offer instore pickup!







Going to get them today. Just waiting for another bestbuy coupon promotion so I can get the H/K 146.


----------



## sid369

1 x SPDIF output ( RCA phono ) - rear ¦ 1 x HDMI ( 19 pin HDMI Type A ) - rear ¦ 1 x composite video output ( RCA phono ) - rear ¦ 1 x component video output ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear ¦ 1 x audio line-out ( RCA phono x 2 ) - rear

Miscellaneous. These are the connections that my philips cheap dvd player has. Will I get surround sound through these connections when I hook it up to the receiver.


Thanks


----------



## chitown_badger

Seeing as how this thread has taken a little turn towards the receivers, I thought I would throw out a question. I'm thinking I'm down to two receivers, the Onkyo TX-SR505S and the HK AVR 147. Here's a brief look at both:


Onkyo

7.1 channel

75 watts per channel

2 HDMI

On Amazon, the silver version is now $215 and that includes shipping. MSRP is about $299.


Harman Kardon

5.1 channel

40 watts per channel

2 HDMI

On amazon it's going for $238, MSRP is around $450


Looking at the big points listed above, one would think the Onkyo would be much more expensive (look at the MSRP), but the HK is, and it seems to offer less. Is it simply a brand issue (as the other attributes are similar), with HK being a higher quality?


The system I'll be running it through is a Panasonic 50PX75U, with four Polk R150's, a CSR center channel, and a Dayton 100 sub. I'm leaning toward the onkyo simply because of the 7.1, as I may someday get a little larger front speakers and use the four r150s for satellites. Is this a horse a piece, or is there really a difference? I'd use it mainly for sports/movie viewing, and some gaming, but that is not a huge issue with me...nor is running a computer through it.


----------



## chitown_badger

Help please ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


----------



## Jakeman02

If you're planning or may go 7.1 in the future then the choice is clear.


As for the price difference HK usually is a lil higher in price than other comparable receivers from the usual recommended big names. Most consider them to be a step above in sound quality and they use better amps. Forget the wattage ratings when comparing them to their comparable competition.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12528305
> 
> 
> If you're planning or may go 7.1 in the future then the choice is clear.
> 
> 
> As for the price difference HK usually is a lil higher in price than other comparable receivers from the usual recommended big names. Most consider them to be a step above in sound quality and they use better amps. Forget the wattage ratings when comparing them to their comparable competition.



Thanks Jake...that's what I suspected, but I just needed someone more knowledgeable than me to confirm it!


----------



## awestbro

I was looking on CC and they have some pioneer speakers, one pair even being three way...I didn't know what you all thought about Pioneer speakers vs the Polks being recommended. I would like some 3 ways if possible. Evenutally when I'm out of college and am able to upgrade I'll go for JBL's because thats what I like at least in PA/live band mixing.


----------



## sid369

I wanted to hear how the H/K 146 sounded, but unfortunately the BB close to my home does not have any of the receivers hooked up. However, they had the Yamaha V361 is hooked up for the speakers demo. I kinda liked how the Yamaha Sounded, CLEAR and CRISP.

So, I have no idea about how Yamaha's are and in this thread there has been no discussion about it, if the H/K would sound like the Yamaha, then I think I will be happy with the H/K.


Any suggestions?


----------



## awestbro

also a small word of advice for people wanting to upgrade in stages...I personally am going to buy the receiver first then in a few weeks buy the fronts and the center. With that said the center speaker is a crucial part of you surround sound experience so if you want to upgrade in stages, when you buy your front speakers go ahead and buy the center. From what I've experienced and read on cnet, its what drives most of your sound, especially in dialogue.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12532312
> 
> 
> I wanted to hear how the H/K 146 sounded, but unfortunately the BB close to my home does not have any of the receivers hooked up. However, they had the Yamaha V361 is hooked up for the speakers demo. I kinda liked how the Yamaha Sounded, CLEAR and CRISP.
> 
> So, I have no idea about how Yamaha's are and in this thread there has been no discussion about it, if the H/K would sound like the Yamaha, then I think I will be happy with the H/K.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?



I think HK's sound better and fuller than the Yamaha. In my past experiences, Yamahas are a little bright sounding. You should really take the receiver home and try it out, if you don't like it bring it back. You've got 30 days to return to Best Buy.


The optimal place to demo these systems is in your own home with material that you're very familiar with.


----------



## sid369

thanks afrogt, I went to CC again today and listen to the onkyo 505 and i think I will be happy with it as my first receiver. I think I got caught up with all the things that I learned in the past few days that I got carried away. I think I have to really think of my budget first and get what is available within that range. Like SET said that it is an expensive hobby once you get into it.


So, when i listened to the Onkyo 505 today (a few minutes ago) I asked the sales rep to pair it with the Polk monitor bookshelf speakers and the sound did not seemed clear for my ears. Then I asked him to switch between different speakers and two of the speakers sound that I liked were boston acoustics and polk (speakers set) I don't know the model number. I think if Set2374 can CONFIRM if the sound coming from the DAYTON 1200 is clear then I might go with those from now. Also can I return them if I don't like the sound of the dayton 1200 to partsexpress. I don't know of the Polk r150 will sound different than the polk speakers ( may be it was monitor 40, M10 and monitor 30). I didn't like these. However, the polk RM6880 sounded good and they are expensive.


I also saw the Klipsch - Synergy Series Quintet III 5-Piece Home Theater Speaker System on sale for $299 (its expensive) for my budget, but I just wanted to know how are these speaker systems compared to the Polk RM6880.


----------



## zenkimods

Im going to be picking up a H/K 146 today at best buy. Should come out to $198 after the 10% discount and $45 gift card.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid369* /forum/post/12535198
> 
> 
> thanks afrogt, I went to CC again today and listen to the onkyo 505 and i think I will be happy with it as my first receiver. I think I got caught up with all the things that I learned in the past few days that I got carried away. I think I have to really think of my budget first and get what is available within that range. Like SET said that it is an expensive hobby once you get into it.
> 
> 
> So, when i listened to the Onkyo 505 today (a few minutes ago) I asked the sales rep to pair it with the Polk monitor bookshelf speakers and the sound did not seemed clear for my ears. Then I asked him to switch between different speakers and two of the speakers sound that I liked were boston acoustics and polk (speakers set) I don't know the model number. I think if Set2374 can CONFIRM if the sound coming from the DAYTON 1200 is clear then I might go with those from now. Also can I return them if I don't like the sound of the dayton 1200 to partsexpress. I don't know of the Polk r150 will sound different than the polk speakers ( may be it was monitor 40, M10 and monitor 30). I didn't like these. However, the polk RM6880 sounded good and they are expensive.
> 
> 
> I also saw the Klipsch - Synergy Series Quintet III 5-Piece Home Theater Speaker System on sale for $299 (its expensive) for my budget, but I just wanted to know how are these speaker systems compared to the Polk RM6880.



Well, I think we are all over the place here budget wise. The RM6880 goes for $400 and up; the Klipsch are in the $299 to $399 range; the Daytons with 10" sub go for $190; and the Polk Monitors go for $150 a pair and up for the 30's, CS1 center is about $130 (5 speaker set would be around $430)... more if you go to anything bigger. You're also comparing bookshshelves with 5.5 inch drivers to sat units... I like the daytons. They are nice sounding speakers and a great value for the money and they'll blow away anything I have heard in a HTIB under $600, but i wouldn't put them in the same sentence as the other speakers you are looking at. I have 4 Monitor 30's that i used to use in my main system (fronts and rears) and moved to rears and sides after I added a pair of monitor 70's as fronts. I loved the sound of the monitor 30's. They have a much wider frequency range, go deeper and have a fuller, more detailed sound. There's just no comparison with the daytons. Remember, when I gave my original recommendations on this site, i was talking to people that were working with a tight budget and these were my suggestions as an alternative to going to a crappy HTIB. If you have a $1000 budget and you want a higher level of performance, forget the daytons. They are great for what they are---decent, inexpensive speakers. For $1000, I would grab R50's ($260 a pair) for the front, R150's rear ($85 pair), CSR center ($100), BIC H-100 sub ($250) and H/K 147($200)--totals just around $900 and gives you $100 bucks for wiggle room and for wires and miscellaneous stuff. If you want small, this may not do it for you.. but for total sound, it's the best of the available options.


If you need to keep it small and are working with a $1000 budget, I would go with the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600 with a street price around $650-700 (shop online a little). This is their entry model, but it uses the same technology as the rest of the line. It includes an 8" 250 watt sub in a 6 speaker package. Pair it with the same H/K receiver. Awesome sat/sub system--I would go with this over the RM6880 (RM10 is the cheaper option from polk that i have recommended).


----------



## awestbro

I'm planning on getting the H/K 146, then the dayton sub, and then the Polk center speaker, but I I'm not sure what to do about the other four, I may try and find some R15's for the rear, or just go with the R150's, but I'm still not sure about the front. If I wanted to upgrade to something a little better than the R150's for the front what would you suggest. My price for a pair of the fronts should be under i'd say $150. If you can give me a couple suggestions that would be great. If I'm not going to get a noticeable difference in the upgrade of my price range that would be helpful to know to.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Remember, when I gave my original recommendations on this site, i was talking to people that were working with a tight budget and these were my suggestions as an alternative to going to a crappy HTIB. If you have a $1000 budget and you want a higher level of performance, forget the daytons



Exactly...and I want to thank you Set for your detail and patience with some of the elementary questions people like myself have asked in this thread. Based on your recommendations and my space/neighbor/budget limitations, here is what I currently have inbound:


TV: Panasonic 50PX75U (~$1600 from Frys which includes tax and shipping)


Front/Surround speakers: 4 Polk R150's (~$120 w/ tax and shipping included...from fry's)


Center channel: Polk CSR (~$90 w/ tax and shipping included...from fry's)


Sub: Dayton 100 ($135 total from Amazon (Parts Express))


AVR: H/K AVR 147 ($231 total from Amazon...bought today)


Total out the door of $2,176 for a plasma and decent starter system! And to think I was going to spend $600 alone for a Panny HTIB







I have no doubt this will sound much better than that. And I was also thinking about the Samsung FPT 5084 plasma, which by itself would have cost more than this entire setup...I checked it out in five stores and the panny was actually better in every one. So I'm content.


The last purchase is going to be an upconverting DVD player...I'm not decided on the bluray/hddvd battle...so thinking of the Oppo DV971 or the Sony DVPN577H.


I just need to get everything set up and broken in by the time my pack heads into the NFL playoffs


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12535906
> 
> 
> Im going to be picking up a H/K 146 today at best buy. Should come out to $198 after the 10% discount and $45 gift card.



FYI...picked up the HK 147 off amazon for $231 total (free shipping). You might want to consider that.


----------



## stevman17

I just wanted to let everyone know that I decided to follow Set2734's advice with a good apartment system.


I have an HK 147 running Fluance AV-HTB+ speakers, and a dayton 10" sub. Sending them a signal is a PS3 and a Sony KDS A2020 SONY KDS-55A2020 55". This is my first apartment , and I must say I could not possibly be happier.


The HK 147 has ridiculous power. I can barely turn the thing up at all without hurting my ears (and pissing off the neighbors which kinda makes the system useless but whatever). It is also preety sweet looking.


As for the fluance speakers, let me note that I am no audio junkie, but I do appreciate good sound and am willing to pay for it. These speakers sound amazing to me and I would love to invite someone better at this than me to listen to them. For ~250$ shipped I could not picture a better system.


Finally, the sub. The Dayton sub for 100$ shipped is a god damned bargain. It hits real hard.


So thank you Set2734. I don't have any idea who you are, but for 600$ i have an amazing system.


----------



## zenkimods

I got the HK 146 during lunch, but now Im looking for a sub. I was pretty set on the Polk 10", but I started to have doubts about the size being too big. Are there any other recommendations for a sub with a similar size to the x-sub?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stevman17* /forum/post/12541290
> 
> 
> I just wanted to let everyone know that I decided to follow Set2734's advice with a good apartment system.
> 
> 
> I have an HK 147 running Fluance AV-HTB+ speakers, and a dayton 10" sub. Sending them a signal is a PS3 and a Sony KDS A2020 SONY KDS-55A2020 55". This is my first apartment , and I must say I could not possibly be happier.
> 
> 
> The HK 147 has ridiculous power. I can barely turn the thing up at all without hurting my ears (and pissing off the neighbors which kinda makes the system useless but whatever). It is also preety sweet looking.
> 
> 
> As for the fluance speakers, let me note that I am no audio junkie, but I do appreciate good sound and am willing to pay for it. These speakers sound amazing to me and I would love to invite someone better at this than me to listen to them. For ~250$ shipped I could not picture a better system.
> 
> 
> Finally, the sub. The Dayton sub for 100$ shipped is a god damned bargain. It hits real hard.
> 
> 
> So thank you Set2734. I don't have any idea who you are, but for 600$ i have an amazing system.



I am glad it worked out well for you. I would love to demo that Fluance gear. I have only read great things about it from people who have it (I haven't heard it and don't know anyone who has it personally). The only people who knock it are people who are just judging it by the price and, because, it's not $2000, think it has to be crap. I really like the look of that SX-HTB. If i was starting from scratch and had a limited budget, I woudl def. give it some thought.


There are lots of different options for setting up an affordable system. I am glad you didn't go with the panny htib. No way it would have sounded like the plastic with tin that it's made out of.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12546912
> 
> 
> I got the HK 146 during lunch, but now Im looking for a sub. I was pretty set on the Polk 10", but I started to have doubts about the size being too big. Are there any other recommendations for a sub with a similar size to the x-sub?



The X-Sub is an awesome little subwoofer for around $200. In truth, it's more of a mid-bass module than it is a true subwoofer. I don't have the specs in front of me, but it doesn't really drop below 35hz, whereas most true subs can hit in the 20's or below. It's just hard to get those lows out of such a small driver. So, as long as you can accept that you're giving up some low end range in favor of a more compact package, then go for it. Believe me, I am married and I understand the need to make compromises.










I am not a big fan of the Polk PSW10. It just seems a bit weak to me. I bought it on black friday for $100 at CC just for the hell of it. It's has pretty tight bass, but it's missing something. It has no umphhh.. If your dropping down to 8", you don't have a whole ton of good options for $200 or less. If you give me a $200 budget.. I would push you to $215. The HSU STF-1, normally $254, is now on sale for 15% off= $215. That's probably the best 8'' on the market in for $250 or less. Next on the list would be the AV123 X-Sub. I own it and I think it's a pretty decent sub for a small room. It had good musical abilities, but in anything above 2,000 square feet it's going to be weak. Another option is the Dayton Sub-80. It's a nice little sub and the best 8" sub under $100. Aside from those, you're looking at Yamaha and Sony--none of which I can recommend.


I have never really spent a lot of time researching 8'' subs. I took the av123 because it got a good review on craigsub and fit my budget at the time. It was a tad weak though in my den application.


----------



## zenkimods

Sigh...well I guess I would need to sacrifice some space to get better sounding bass. I might as well just go get the dayton 10"


----------



## Luisfc1972

my threads


----------



## kleinbiker

How does the Velodyne VX-10 ($145) compare to the Dayton Sub-100 ($105)?


----------



## k5james

I'd like to also add my thanks for the input set2374.


I demo'd and picked up two Rti8's at Fry's the other day for $150 each. It seems like they have quite a bit of stock(black/cherry) left so you may want to try the nearest one to you if you're interested. These things are huuuuge. I can't wait to finish off my system to try them out at home.


Now I just need a receiver, center, sub and rears in that order. I think I'm going to hold out and try to save for a Onk 605.


----------



## zenkimods

I was looking at those at my local fry's too. I was trying to find the R50s but I couldnt find them in the store. When I was looking at them online, it said all my local stores had them in stock. But you can never be too sure how well they keep inventory. I think I would get the R50s if they offered them at $60/ea in black.



EDIT! The R50s are on sale at frys this weekend for $100 a *PAIR*, might go and get them on my lunch.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k5james* /forum/post/12552623
> 
> 
> I'd like to also add my thanks for the input set2374.
> 
> 
> I demo'd and picked up two Rti8's at Fry's the other day for $150 each. It seems like they have quite a bit of stock(black/cherry) left so you may want to try the nearest one to you if you're interested. These things are huuuuge. I can't wait to finish off my system to try them out at home.
> 
> 
> Now I just need a receiver, center, sub and rears in that order. I think I'm going to hold out and try to save for a Onk 605.



$300 for a pair of RTi8's sounds like a great deal. Nice!!!


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12555048
> 
> 
> I was looking at those at my local fry's too. I was trying to find the R50s but I couldnt find them in the store. When I was looking at them online, it said all my local stores had them in stock. But you can never be too sure how well they keep inventory. I think I would get the R50s if they offered them at $60/ea in black.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT! The R50s are on sale at frys this weekend for $100 a *PAIR*, might go and get them on my lunch.



Wow... that's an awesome deal. I looked online and The R50's were $59 each, and the R300's were $49.00 each. Those are great deal in any case. If you have the space, you can pick up two pairs! I also see they have the R150's back on sale for $50 for a pair and a CSR for $79. So, you can conceivably have R50's front, CSR center and a R150's rear for around $250. Seriously, grab that deal while you still can. They also have the velodyne VX-10 on sale for $129.00. which is an excellent price. I wouldn't match it with the R50's though. I think you'd be better off with a Dayton Sub-120. I think it's will do a better job for you for just a couple of bucks more.


Unfortunately, I am in New York and we don't have Fry's here and, lol... I guess I have no reason to get any more speakers at the moment. For $120 bucks though those R50's would sound great as a replacement for the M10's I have in the office.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kleinbiker* /forum/post/12551908
> 
> 
> How does the Velodyne VX-10 ($145) compare to the Dayton Sub-100 ($105)?



Fry's has the Velo VX-10 on sale for $129. At that price, I think I would go with the Velo. I had a velo vx-10 and loved it.. .but it it did crap out on me after a year.. but sound qualitywise, it was a nice little sub. It had nice tight bass and was fairly musical. I paid $200 for mine, so this sounds like pretty good deal. I don't think you can go wrong with the Dayton either, but if you're on teh West Coast and can buy it at Fry (no shipping) and can return it easily if there is a problem... that sounds like the way to go.


----------



## kleinbiker

Stopped by our local Fry's. They said the $129 price for the VX-10 subwoofer is online only. Best they would do is $129 + 2-day shipping of $57.65. This is in the Seattle area.


----------



## afrogt

That's weird because its $129 in my newspaper ad today. That's an in store price. This is in the SF Bay Area

http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/...19141434&type=


----------



## zenkimods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kleinbiker* /forum/post/12557664
> 
> 
> Stopped by our local Fry's. They said the $129 price for the VX-10 subwoofer is online only. Best they would do is $129 + 2-day shipping of $57.65. This is in the Seattle area.



You should be able to buy online and do instore pickup. Its a new feature on their site. I did this with the R150s.


I went ahead and got the R50s today and got everything setup. R50s up front, HK 146. Thats it LOL. Im going to return the R150s and get the CSR center. I didnt see the ad for the CSR when I looked but I'll check again.


I dont have enough room for rears or a sub. So I might just end up getting the x-sub to conserve space. Ill take a pic of my setup. I just have to say it is AMAZING with just the 2.0 setup!


Thanks for all the info everyone gave in this thread!


----------



## kleinbiker

Thanks for the helpful suggestions and links.


Seems like Fry's has different items on sale at different locations - the Velodyne sub is not on sale in Seattle.


Also Fry's instore pickup is currently available in Silicon Valley stores only.


Am thinking of picking up the VX-10 from B&H for $145 shipped, would have definitely preferred to buy it locally.


----------



## Ceegster

What a great forum thread this has been. Thanks to all of you techs that have taken the time to share what life has brought your way. If any of you can help this tecvirgin at this step of my process, I would appreciate it. My phillips 42pfl7432D just landed 2 days ago..my 47pfl will be here by the 3rd of Jan. My concern is that of the receiver. In the closet is a 5 year old, unused for a long story, RCA STAV 4090 5.1 Dolby Digital Prologic, DTS *without* an hdmi hookup. It came from Radio Shack and I think my mother dropped about 300.00 on it in 02. Both the Phillips 42" and 47" have 3 hdmi hookups, but I am wondering if this is adequate to use on the 47"? Ive been speaker shopping for sometime (ref posts #s 11-15), and would appreciate some pro quidance in this regard. Would I be THAT much better off in investing in another receiver first?...or will it be enough for this untrained ear as it does have an optical hookup? Ive been thinking about a Fluance HTB 5.1 speaker selection but will am leaning towards the SX system. Will this "lousy" receiver do ok with those "unliked" speakers make me happy? Also Fluance has a 10" and a 12" sub for 199. and 249. respectively. Somebody tell me what to do please.....and I'll go with your recomendations... Thanks guys.


----------



## kleinbiker

Would the Polk RM6752( http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...RM6752B&tp=189 ) pair well with R150's as mains? Asking because I am looking for a center channel that is 

Would really appreciate any alternatives for bookshelf mains paired with a low profile center channel. Didn't see a good option at the HTIB alternative thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809777 ).


Thanks.


----------



## kyhowey

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this thread. I bought the Onkyo 505 from shoponkyo.com, Dayton speaker package and Dayton 10" sub from partsexpress.com about two weeks ago. I hooked up my existing Infinity fronts and center, used the dayton's as surround for the full 7.1 hookup.


So far, I 've been pretty pleased with the setup. The Onkyo 505 has plenty of settings to play around with and has performed really well. Couldn't ask for more from a receiver under $110. The Dayton 10" sub is unbelievable. I've never owned a sub before in my old pro logic setup, so I might not be the most experienced user. That sub hit so hard on the auto setup from Onkyo that I had to turn it down a little. I've had more fun with the sub than any other piece. The Dayton's are a pretty good surround speaker. I'm sure there is much better out there. But not for under $100. They do a fine job as surround speakers.


I also had the center channel left over from the Dayton's. So I hooked it up to my old receiver and some JBL front speakers. Hooked all of that to my computer and have a good start on making my computer into surround sound. Still working on that. Have to get 2 more speakers for the rears and I might by two more Dayton's to finish it. The Dayton center sounds good. I compared it to my Infinity and liked the sound of the Infinity better (seemed to have more range).


Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I think I've got a surround package that will last me for years to come. I hope it's years anyway. I've become addicted to this site and I'm sure the upgrade bug will hit me at some point.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ceegster* /forum/post/12565082
> 
> 
> What a great forum thread this has been. Thanks to all of you techs that have taken the time to share what life has brought your way. If any of you can help this tecvirgin at this step of my process, I would appreciate it. My phillips 42pfl7432D just landed 2 days ago..my 47pfl will be here by the 3rd of Jan. My concern is that of the receiver. In the closet is a 5 year old, unused for a long story, RCA STAV 4090 5.1 Dolby Digital Prologic, DTS *without* an hdmi hookup. It came from Radio Shack and I think my mother dropped about 300.00 on it in 02. Both the Phillips 42" and 47" have 3 hdmi hookups, but I am wondering if this is adequate to use on the 47"? Ive been speaker shopping for sometime (ref posts #s 11-15), and would appreciate some pro quidance in this regard. Would I be THAT much better off in investing in another receiver first?...or will it be enough for this untrained ear as it does have an optical hookup? Ive been thinking about a Fluance HTB 5.1 speaker selection but will am leaning towards the SX system. Will this "lousy" receiver do ok with those "unliked" speakers make me happy? Also Fluance has a 10" and a 12" sub for 199. and 249. respectively. Somebody tell me what to do please.....and I'll go with your recomendations... Thanks guys.



Old doesn't necessarily mean bad--although it does mean you may not be able to enjoy the latest features available. Nevertheless, your RCA avr should be able to handle Dolby Digital and DTS. It probably isn't equipped for Pro Logic II, but that's not a reason to throw it away. It should be fine for pushing a smaller speaker like the Daytons. The Fluance are a fairly inefficient speaker, so you are going to need some juice to run it. If you can give me the specs on the receiver, that would be helpful. You can hook all the video connections directly to the t.v. and the audio goes straight into the avr. I running an old, inexpensive JVC avr (got it in 2001) in my bedroom. It sounds good... maybe not as good as a new model perhaps, but it gets the job done. You can certainly make do with the RCA until you have the money to invest in a good avr. No need to rush for now. focus on getting some decent speakers that will fit your lifestyle. Given the prices they have going at Frys for the R50's/CSR/R150, that's a sweet deal--add a Dayton Sub 120 from parts express, and you have a very good starter system for $350 that you'll enjoy for years.


When I am ready to upgrade my main system, i'll move my pioneer from the den to the bedroom and a new avr capable of processing True HD and other "high def" sound signals sometime down the road (when the prices come down into the mid-$300s).


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kleinbiker* /forum/post/12570653
> 
> 
> Would the Polk RM6752( http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...RM6752B&tp=189 ) pair well with R150's as mains? Asking because I am looking for a center channel that is
> 
> Would really appreciate any alternatives for bookshelf mains paired with a low profile center channel. Didn't see a good option at the HTIB alternative thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809777 ).
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I would call up tech support from polk and ask them what they think. Most Polk speakers are timbre matched so that you can mix and match between different lines. I have heard that the RM6000 series is an exception to this rule, but I am not sure this is the case. They may have some alternative solutions for you.


----------



## NYCPatsfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12589443
> 
> 
> I would call up tech support from polk and ask them what they think. Most Polk speakers are timbre matched so that you can mix and match between different lines. I have heard that the RM6000 series is an exception to this rule, but I am not sure this is the case. They may have some alternative solutions for you.



Hi set2374, I was traveling and couldn't log-in for the last few weeks.


I was wondering about your timbre match point (when someone earlier was wondering about mixing the Daytons with some other speakers) and am glad you brought it up here. Hopefully they read it and act accordingly.


I purchased a 14AWG for all the Daytons and I gotta tell you: I didn't expect the sound to go up this much. It is amazing!! Would strongly recommend those with the original wires to consider replace the originals!!


And the sub is just floor shattering! Thanks again for pointing me out to this Dayton system.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCPatsfan* /forum/post/12590132
> 
> 
> Hi set2374, I was traveling and couldn't log-in for the last few weeks.
> 
> 
> I was wondering about your timbre match point (when someone earlier was wondering about mixing the Daytons with some other speakers) and am glad you brought it up here. Hopefully they read it and act accordingly.
> 
> 
> I purchased a 14AWG for all the Daytons and I gotta tell you: I didn't expect the sound to go up this much. It is amazing!! Would strongly recommend those with the original wires to consider replace the originals!!
> 
> 
> And the sub is just floor shattering! Thanks again for pointing me out to this Dayton system.



Good wires make a big difference, particularly if you have a long run to your rear satellites. I am glad it's working out for you. I personally am enjoying the daytons more as they break in.


I was checking out some supposedly higher end sat systems for a system for my dad, which I am planning on giving him for his 40th Anniversary (I would say it's for both my parents, but i don't think my mom cares about speakers). I was looking at a number of packages Def Tech, Mirage, Polk among other small options. I imagine that if they did a double blind test and I had no idea which speakers were which and I was suppose to pick the ones I liked best, I think the Daytons would do quite nicely. They don't sound as full as my main system, but if i compare them to other similarly sized speakers, they really do hold their own. The Def Techs (procinema 600)definitely drop deeper, but I didn't love the little sub that comes with the def tech. Matched with my av123 x-sub, I think I like my daytons more than the def tech and mirage systems which are more than double the price.


----------



## zenkimods

I got the polk CSR center and its too tall to fit in front of my tv :\\ It was only $80, but I think im going to return it for a shorter speaker. Can anyone recommend me a center with a max height of 5-6"?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12594265
> 
> 
> I got the polk CSR center and its too tall to fit in front of my tv :\\ It was only $80, but I think im going to return it for a shorter speaker. Can anyone recommend me a center with a max height of 5-6"?



You may want to try this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-0TKlXqh...RM6752B&tp=189 



There is still an issue as to whether it will be timbre matched with the R series (call polk to check). Have you thought about mounting the CSR center above the T.V.?


----------



## zenkimods

Thats what I was originally going to do with the R150s and the CSR, but then I got the R50s. I dunno if it will look good or not, but I might just do it to save the hassle.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12600079
> 
> 
> Thats what I was originally going to do with the R150s and the CSR, but then I got the R50s. I dunno if it will look good or not, but I might just do it to save the hassle.



With the R50's, I would probably try to find a way to get that CSR to work for you. Your system may sound off if you go with a smaller speaker. Size does sometimes matter when it comes to speakers. When you have large floorstanding speakers and then you add a small center (from satellite package), you may have a tough time getting the center to sound right. If you look at most speaker packages, the center speaker typically has two drivers that are equal in size to the driver in the main (plus a tweeter). This ensures that you have the appropriate volume out of the center (which carries the bulk of the work in home theater application---voice, score, sound effects etc). One option is to wall mount the CSR center. If it's rear ported (which I believe it is), you may need to set up a shelf (like a picture shelf) and put the CSR on it right above t.v.


----------



## stac772000

NewB to HT and have been following this thread for some time. Great insights. Just ordered Onkyo 505 . Could you please give your opinion on the following speakers


JBL SCS-145.5 SCS - Meijers have it for 150.


Yamaha NS SP1600 - amazon has this for around 100


Can spend upto $150-175. I welcome any other suggestions.


Thanks,


----------



## jgreg

First off great thread. I just purchased the Dayton HTS-1200 and the Dayton Sub-100 from parts express. I also got the speaker mounts just in case for 20 bucks. I can't find the H/K AVR-147 for cheap enough yet so I am going to wait it out or try to purchase it refurbished on ebay if I can get it down to $150 or new for $200. No Onkyo 505's on shoponkyo right now either. I am hoping the holiday sale prices will come back.









Any help in finding good prices is much appreciated.


This should probably go in the DVD section but what is a good budget fit for this system? The Toshiba or the Oppo. I will peruse the DVD section for a while but I was curious what the others that have used this specific thread have purchased and what the results were.


Thanks again everyone for this thread it has helped me avoid the HTIB which is what I wanted in the firs place but didn't think was possible at this price point.


----------



## zenkimods

Set, I ended up placing the speaker right in front of the tv for now hahaha. Its not bad but Im not sure if its setup right. I went through the HK's OSD and followed the instructions from the manual, but it seems pretty even with the towers(as far as vocals) Need to red up a bit more to see if its in the right mode. The system as a whole sounds great though.


This is WAY offtopic but Im in need of a good surge protector and didnt want to just a cheapy one. I have a $45 gift card at best buy so if you can recommend something from there that would be great.


Thanks for all the help!


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zenkimods* /forum/post/12608692
> 
> 
> Set, I ended up placing the speaker right in front of the tv for now hahaha. Its not bad but Im not sure if its setup right. I went through the HK's OSD and followed the instructions from the manual, but it seems pretty even with the towers(as far as vocals) Need to red up a bit more to see if its in the right mode. The system as a whole sounds great though.
> 
> 
> This is WAY offtopic but Im in need of a good surge protector and didnt want to just a cheapy one. I have a $45 gift card at best buy so if you can recommend something from there that would be great.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help!



How did you get the audio setup to through the receiver with your hk? I was trying to hook mine up yesterday and couldn't get it done for the life of me. I'm running an HDMI from the DVD player to the first slot on the receiver, then running the HDMI out to the TV. What inputs/outputs did you use for the audio? and any specific settings on the OSD? Very confusing...it only gives the option to assign component 1 or 2 to the output, and not the DVD..


----------



## Tom Ames




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chitown_badger* /forum/post/12620795
> 
> 
> How did you get the audio setup to through the receiver with your hk? I was trying to hook mine up yesterday and couldn't get it done for the life of me. I'm running an HDMI from the DVD player to the first slot on the receiver, then running the HDMI out to the TV. What inputs/outputs did you use for the audio? and any specific settings on the OSD? Very confusing...it only gives the option to assign component 1 or 2 to the output, and not the DVD..




This is how I have my Toshiba A2 HD-DVD set up thru my HK 147, so you might want to give it a try. Take this for what it's worth as I'm a newbie and found it pretty confusing during my recent initial set-up. I have HDMI cables from (a) DVD -> HK 147 and (b) HK 147 -> Display. Optical cable from DVD to HK 147. In fact, looking at the OSD now, I'm confused why "Component In" shows anything--default setting maybe?










OSD for HK 147 shows:

Source: HDMI 1

Component In: Comp V1

Audio In: Optical 2


----------



## mrich82

This is my first post here. I've been browsing the last few days since my old system isn't performing well anymore. Looks like a great forum and I'm sure I'll be sticking around to learn what I can.


How would you guys compare an HK AVR 146 setup to the Samsung AS720 HTIB package?


I love the look of both of these receivers and am going to be upgrading from a small Sony DreamSystem that I've had for about 5 years since it crapped out on me this week. I enjoyed the sound of this Sony system, but definitely want more since I have a larger living room now.


I currently have a Philips 47" 1080p LCD and am going to pick up a Philips DVP5982 player to match tomorrow. Then I have an HD Comcast box and thats about it. I watch a lot of movies and sports.


I'm looking to spend around $600 probably. I wouldn't mind having large floor standing speakers in the front, but I have to stay with smaller speakers for the back on speaker stands (no bigger than the Samsung speakers I'd say). I'm not sure how large front speakers and small satellites for the rear would sound together though. I would like a 10" sub or at least a nice hitting 8". I only care for 5..1 surround sound and don't mind running seperate audio cables to accompany the HDMI cables. The wifey likes the H/K and Samsung look... I have to keep her happy too!


This is exciting for me and I'm ready to piecemeal if everyone agrees that I could get more than the Samsung for the price. I'm actually glad my old Sony system quit working on me! Is that bad? lol


----------



## camelrollo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12266088
> 
> 
> I am building a bedroom system now. I am not going too nuts because it's a secondary to my den system. I just bought a 32" Sharp Aquos 32D43U. I am going to use an old JVC RX-6008 avr. It was a decent inexpensive avr when I bought it in 2001 for my starter system. I am going with the Dayton HT-1200's and a Dayton 10" sub-100. I am going to use a rocketfish universal wireless kit to hook of the rear surrounds. I'll let you know how that goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for the of my equipment to come in.



I'm also looking for a small system for the bedroom to go with my new Samsung 42" plasma. I was just wondering how the rocketfish wireless kit worked out for you? Also, do you think it might be better to get a little better speaker and just go 2.1 or 3.1 since there won't be much movie watching?


----------



## digitalduck

Saw this post today after looking for days for speakers to replace my 10yr old KLH floor standing plus rear sats and center..(which I just sold today) Here I was considering purchasing a sony set then after hearing them in BB I was going to go with JBL...now after reading 9 pages deep here I am seriously considering this set-up for my apartment:


I am still going to use my current receiver for now since it still sounds good but doesnt have HMDI in/out but I use optical or coax and it still sounds good..I will upgrade later...


Receiver:


Yamaha HTR 5240

L/R Polk R150's

Center.. Im not sure yet..either the Polk RM6752 or Polk CSR (I like a more low profile center since my old KLH was big)

Not sure of sub yet...I will get soon...

Together to my 50" Panny Plasma


Question: should I just get 4 150's or try and find 2 R50's since I cant seem to find them anywhere? It doesnt matter if the R's are the same size as the fronts, although I did like the size of some of the smaller Sonys I saw...oh well... Also, I looked at the Polk RM6750 set, but like the design of the 150's better..but that also means that I couldnt pair the 150's with the 6752 center, since one is rounded and the other is square angels...haha..i might be kidding..not sure










Question.. I seriously haven't heard Polks before..I am going to try and find some place locally that has them...however all Ive had the past 10 years were (was) my KLH system... I really want to not have these Polks be cheaper in sound, but they are smaller, so i know its a possibility, but I also know that my KLH's sucked..










If you can picture this, I am going to have the plasma mounted on the wall and an IKEA Lack tv stand (low profile) below it and the Polks on either side of the stand... that should look good since they're small bookshelves...


Question: After everything I've read and what i assume...with my receiver, is this a beetter route to go then something like the Yamaha YHT-380BL HTIB?


UPDATE: I just measured out the 150's to see how big they are and its a great size for fronts, but not sure if they are perfect for rears...might still work though, just not sure now.. 10 5\\8" high..


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrich82* /forum/post/12623698
> 
> 
> This is my first post here. I've been browsing the last few days since my old system isn't performing well anymore. Looks like a great forum and I'm sure I'll be sticking around to learn what I can.
> 
> 
> How would you guys compare an HK AVR 146 setup to the Samsung AS720 HTIB package?
> 
> 
> I love the look of both of these receivers and am going to be upgrading from a small Sony DreamSystem that I've had for about 5 years since it crapped out on me this week. I enjoyed the sound of this Sony system, but definitely want more since I have a larger living room now.
> 
> 
> I currently have a Philips 47" 1080p LCD and am going to pick up a Philips DVP5982 player to match tomorrow. Then I have an HD Comcast box and thats about it. I watch a lot of movies and sports.
> 
> 
> I'm looking to spend around $600 probably. I wouldn't mind having large floor standing speakers in the front, but I have to stay with smaller speakers for the back on speaker stands (no bigger than the Samsung speakers I'd say). I'm not sure how large front speakers and small satellites for the rear would sound together though. I would like a 10" sub or at least a nice hitting 8". I only care for 5..1 surround sound and don't mind running seperate audio cables to accompany the HDMI cables. The wifey likes the H/K and Samsung look... I have to keep her happy too!
> 
> 
> This is exciting for me and I'm ready to piecemeal if everyone agrees that I could get more than the Samsung for the price. I'm actually glad my old Sony system quit working on me! Is that bad? lol



The 146 is a much better quality receiver all the way around but you'd be hard pressed to put together a system around it within your budget. You could do speakers and even floorstanding up front using a pair or Polk R50s or R300 up front-CSR enter-R150s rear from frys/outpost.com or Athena 2 pair of B1.2 and C1.2 center from audioadvisor.com. You'd have add to the budget though to get a quality sub, I'd allow $200 + shipping for that. But in the end the system would Destroy the Samsung.


----------



## mrich82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12626117
> 
> 
> The 146 is a much better quality receiver all the way around but you'd be hard pressed to put together a system around it within your budget. You could do speakers and even floorstanding up front using a pair or Polk R50s or R300 up front-CSR enter-R150s rear from frys/outpost.com or Athena 2 pair of B1.2 and C1.2 center from audioadvisor.com. You'd have add to the budget though to get a quality sub, I'd allow $200 + shipping for that. But in the end the system would Destroy the Samsung.



The R150s would be too big for me to put in the rear on speaker stands. Is there any other rear speakers that are small (satellite?) that would go good with the R50s and CSR up front?


Would I be able to run my current Sony speakers on the H/K 146? These are the speakers that come with the DAV-C770.


I would be willing to spend more money if I could do it in stages... like upgrade the receiver 1st and use my current speakers, then upgrade the fronts/center... then rears.. then sub.


----------



## digitalduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrich82* /forum/post/12627012
> 
> 
> The R150s would be too big for me to put in the rear on speaker stands. Is there any other rear speakers that are small (satellite?) that would go good with the R50s and CSR up front?



I would love to know this too..im hesitating on buying all 150's because of how big they would be as rears.


----------



## gil3129




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *digitalduck* /forum/post/12635835
> 
> 
> I would love to know this too..im hesitating on buying all 150's because of how big they would be as rears.



I would like a response on this as well. I have purchased the R50's for the front but want something smaller than the bookshelf R150's for the surround speakers. I can buy a pair of the Polk M3II's on Craigslist for $50 for the pair. Would these work well as the surrounds? Thanks.


----------



## Jakeman02

Surrounds aren't as important to match, although it's recommended it isn't as big of an issue as the fronts, very little sound gets sent to them in comparison, they are there for effect so if you find a speaker that fits your requirements go for it.


As far s the M3II yeah they would work but according to the Polk website they are only 3/4" less width and taller and deeper than the R150s, basically the same size.


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Ames* /forum/post/12622243
> 
> 
> This is how I have my Toshiba A2 HD-DVD set up thru my HK 147, so you might want to give it a try. Take this for what it's worth as I'm a newbie and found it pretty confusing during my recent initial set-up. I have HDMI cables from (a) DVD -> HK 147 and (b) HK 147 -> Display. Optical cable from DVD to HK 147. In fact, looking at the OSD now, I'm confused why "Component In" shows anything--default setting maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OSD for HK 147 shows:
> 
> Source: HDMI 1
> 
> Component In: Comp V1
> 
> Audio In: Optical 2



There are several ways to hook up the cables and make it work. I've chosen to ignore the HDMI inputs on the HK 146 and send the audio and video thru an HDMI cable from the DVD player directly to the TV. To get sound back to the receiver, I run an optical cable from the digital-audio-out of the TV to one of the optical-ins of the HK 146. When using the surround speakers I internally turn off the TV speakers. If you have enough HDMI inputs on your TV to run all your source components this way, then you don't have to switch your receiver to a different source when you switch your TV to a different source. It also means your TV speakers can always receive audio so you don't have to use your receiver if you don't want to. I suppose you can make a macro command on a universal remote take care of all this switching for you, but I don't have one of those yet.


Can anyone recommend a decent universal learning remote that can send RF (my gear will be in a closet) and is


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Can anyone recommend a decent universal learning remote that can send RF (my gear will be in a closet) and is
> 
> 
> URC RFS200 PowerPak Bundle w/ MasterControl RF20 and PowerBlaster from Amazon.com
> 
> 
> The links for Amazon never work here so just type in URC RF200 at the amazon site.


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12651278
> 
> 
> URC RFS200 PowerPak Bundle w/ MasterControl RF20 and PowerBlaster from Amazon.com
> 
> 
> The links for Amazon never work here so just type in URC RF200 at the amazon site.



Thanks, afrogt, it looks like it will fit the bill and Amazon has a good price.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12644734
> 
> 
> Surrounds aren't as important to match, although it's recommended it isn't as big of an issue as the fronts, very little sound gets sent to them in comparison, they are there for effect so if you find a speaker that fits your requirements go for it.
> 
> 
> As far s the M3II yeah they would work but according to the Polk website they are only 3/4" less width and taller and deeper than the R150s, basically the same size.



I agree with Jakeman02. It's ideal if you can have all speakers timbre matched and from the same series. However, surround are not nearly as important (sonically speaking) as your front three and sub. What you want to try to avoid though is mixing tiny rears with big fronts. I wouldn't put bose craps.. oops, I meant cubes, with three way floorstanders. It's not really going to make a huge impact on the system for home theater use (in music it could have more of an impact). What you want to try to avoid is having large front R/L and then using a small sat type of center. Your system will sound out of balance and the dialogue is lost--definitely not good. The center carries the largest workload in the system (which is why it usually has an extra driver), so make sure you're matching the center correctly with the L/R.


Once upon a time I used a JVC HTIB center with a pair of Polk Montior 30's as fronts. You couldn't hear and dialogue unless you cranked the center volume to max and then it sounded like total crap. I just didn't have the money to get the center at that time so I made due.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12650339
> 
> 
> There are several ways to hook up the cables and make it work. I've chosen to ignore the HDMI inputs on the HK 146 and send the audio and video thru an HDMI cable from the DVD player directly to the TV. To get sound back to the receiver, I run an optical cable from the digital-audio-out of the TV to one of the optical-ins of the HK 146. When using the surround speakers I internally turn off the TV speakers. If you have enough HDMI inputs on your TV to run all your source components this way, then you don't have to switch your receiver to a different source when you switch your TV to a different source. It also means your TV speakers can always receive audio so you don't have to use your receiver if you don't want to. I suppose you can make a macro command on a universal remote take care of all this switching for you, but I don't have one of those yet.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a decent universal learning remote that can send RF (my gear will be in a closet) and is
> 
> 
> 
> Harmony makes a couple of decent remotes that you can find online for around $100.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Ames* /forum/post/12622243
> 
> 
> This is how I have my Toshiba A2 HD-DVD set up thru my HK 147, so you might want to give it a try. Take this for what it's worth as I'm a newbie and found it pretty confusing during my recent initial set-up. I have HDMI cables from (a) DVD -> HK 147 and (b) HK 147 -> Display. Optical cable from DVD to HK 147. In fact, looking at the OSD now, I'm confused why "Component In" shows anything--default setting maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OSD for HK 147 shows:
> 
> Source: HDMI 1
> 
> Component In: Comp V1
> 
> Audio In: Optical 2



Thanks for the reply on this...I actually found that it had to be an optical or coaxial after scouring the book. I've got everything set up now and am going on just about 110 hours or break in and viewing. Here are my thoughts thus far...


The 50 panasonic is flat out awesome. The HD looks amazing, and I have none of the issues that are often discussed with the more expensive samsungs. I'm also glad I went with 720p and didn't spring for the 1080...it's not necessary for the viewing I will be doing. My picture is extremely crisp, and watching the bowl games couldnt be better. I'm still having a few issues in the menus though. For whatever reason, the vertical zoom is grayed out...so I can zoom the tv, but it zooms straight in and I can't adjust the picture vertically to move the score bar out of the screen. Also, the 3D filter is grayed out in normal viewing...I noticed that some in the calibrations said they have that on, but I can't select it.


As for the audio portion of the system...this highly economical system is more than enough for me. I haven't even really gotten to work this thing out because i'm afraid it'll upset the neighbors...so needless to say, the R50s weren't necessary for me. The receiver delivers more than enough power. One thing I've noticed though is that the mode tends to revert back to the five speaker pro logic on it's own when I'm trying to watch in four speaker mode. But regardless....all is well so far.


----------



## keebs1973

Thanks set2374. I'll look into the Harmony remotes, too.


My basement remodel is at the point where all the walls are framed and the A/V wiring is in the ceiling. Before sheet rock goes up, I decided to give all my equipment (TV, receiver, speakers, pc, cable box, xbox 360) a dry run to make sure I hadn't forgotten any cables. So I brought it all from my den down to the basement yesterday. I have the HK 146 receiver and the HTS-1200 speakers with the sub-100. I had gone through the OSD and configured the speakers and sub some weeks ago while they were in the den. When I set it up in the basement and played the radio, I could tell the sub was *way* too bassy. My son turned down the Freq and Gain knobs to about 11 o'clock and then it sounded much better. I'm a little confused. I thought the receiver was supposed to control the sub settings. Did I lose that when the HK 146 got unplugged? Or were the settings maintained but the position of it in the corner of the room and room make-up (all hard surfaces, no furniture) make it sound so bassy?


Anyway, the speakers sound great. I was watching the NFL wild-card games yesterday and switching between the TV speakers and the surrounds. My 11 year old said the surrounds gave the sound a richness and depth that the TV speakers didn't have. He's absolutely right. We put our ears up to the rear speakers and could hear just the crowd noise. While you can't explicitly hear those speakers from the main seating area, I'm sure they add to that 3D effect we sensed.


Later we switched to basketball. When a player is at the line bouncing the ball, the bouncing sounds come out the sub, giving it an effect you'd expect to hear only if you were courtside. Very cool.


I should also mention that without any sheetrock or other acoustic insulation and with A/C ductwork in basement ceilings leading upward, the sounds travel very easily to the rooms on the first floor. The sounds from the sub in particular are heard (felt?) all through the house.


----------



## confidenceman

Hey folks-


So I've had some time for my Dayton 1200 set to break in, along with my new Dayton sub-100. Great so far for my small living room.


I've finally gotten the sub where I like it (I'm sure I'll still tweak it, though) and the sats sound perfect in my space, but I've started to notice that the center speaker sounds a bit too "bright" for me. For those of you with this modest set, is this typical of the Daytons?


I know my onkyo (605) has various calibrations, but I'm not sure which of the settings would be most useful for toning down the over-bright sound. Should I just adjust the dB level in the receiver? Does this mean that I need to now resort to calibrating via SPL? Will changing the crossover frequency help "warm" the sound of the center?


Or is this just what it means to have a "budget" system?


Thanks!


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *confidenceman* /forum/post/12715674
> 
> 
> Hey folks-
> 
> 
> So I've had some time for my Dayton 1200 set to break in, along with my new Dayton sub-100. Great so far for my small living room.
> 
> 
> I've finally gotten the sub where I like it (I'm sure I'll still tweak it, though) and the sats sound perfect in my space, but I've started to notice that the center speaker sounds a bit too "bright" for me. For those of you with this modest set, is this typical of the Daytons?
> 
> 
> I know my onkyo (605) has various calibrations, but I'm not sure which of the settings would be most useful for toning down the over-bright sound. Should I just adjust the dB level in the receiver? Does this mean that I need to now resort to calibrating via SPL? Will changing the crossover frequency help "warm" the sound of the center?
> 
> 
> Or is this just what it means to have a "budget" system?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I don't find the center to be overly bright in my set up. I actually they are rather neutral in tone. You may want to lower the treble on your avr a tad and maybe lower the volume to the center relative to the other speakers. That might make the center blend in better. My hunch is the set up needs tweeking. The auto calibration on the onkyo is a good starting point, but you may still need to make some manual adjustments to suit your ear.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12707752
> 
> 
> Thanks set2374. I'll look into the Harmony remotes, too.
> 
> 
> My basement remodel is at the point where all the walls are framed and the A/V wiring is in the ceiling. Before sheet rock goes up, I decided to give all my equipment (TV, receiver, speakers, pc, cable box, xbox 360) a dry run to make sure I hadn't forgotten any cables. So I brought it all from my den down to the basement yesterday. I have the HK 146 receiver and the HTS-1200 speakers with the sub-100. I had gone through the OSD and configured the speakers and sub some weeks ago while they were in the den. When I set it up in the basement and played the radio, I could tell the sub was *way* too bassy. My son turned down the Freq and Gain knobs to about 11 o'clock and then it sounded much better. I'm a little confused. I thought the receiver was supposed to control the sub settings. Did I lose that when the HK 146 got unplugged? Or were the settings maintained but the position of it in the corner of the room and room make-up (all hard surfaces, no furniture) make it sound so bassy?
> 
> 
> Anyway, the speakers sound great. I was watching the NFL wild-card games yesterday and switching between the TV speakers and the surrounds. My 11 year old said the surrounds gave the sound a richness and depth that the TV speakers didn't have. He's absolutely right. We put our ears up to the rear speakers and could hear just the crowd noise. While you can't explicitly hear those speakers from the main seating area, I'm sure they add to that 3D effect we sensed.
> 
> 
> Later we switched to basketball. When a player is at the line bouncing the ball, the bouncing sounds come out the sub, giving it an effect you'd expect to hear only if you were courtside. Very cool.
> 
> 
> I should also mention that without any sheetrock or other acoustic insulation and with A/C ductwork in basement ceilings leading upward, the sounds travel very easily to the rooms on the first floor. The sounds from the sub in particular are heard (felt?) all through the house.



Each room will effect the sound differently, so you'll need to recalibrate the system for the basement. However, if you don't have your sheetrock up yet and probably don't have carpeting and furniture in place, you're going to get some wacky echoes and room gain. It's pretty hard to get any system to sound good in those conditions. On the other hand, location of the sub makes a big difference. If you put in a corner, most likely you'll have a stronger bass sound than otherwise.


The avr should be running the sub, rather than using the internal crossover--however you will still need to play with the gain. On the sub, set the crossover to the max and then you can set the crossover on the sub to 100 (which is what i would recommend for the dayton sats). You may prefer 80, but it does leave a little hole in the range between 80 and 100hz.


----------



## confidenceman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12718551
> 
> 
> I don't find the center to be overly bright in my set up. I actually they are rather neutral in tone. You may want to lower the treble on your avr a tad and maybe lower the volume to the center relative to the other speakers. That might make the center blend in better. My hunch is the set up needs tweeking. The auto calibration on the onkyo is a good starting point, but you may still need to make some manual adjustments to suit your ear.



Thanks. Yeah, I think it comes off a bit bright because the center is sitting in a much more open area (on the TV stand a few inches in front of the display).


Trouble is, I'm not totally sure where to start with toning the center down. I adjusted the volume corrections to take a couple of dBs off the center, but I'm also thinking that Audyssey may have set my crossover frequencies too high.


I had read that a good rule of thumb is to set your crossover 10-20hz or so above the speaker's minimum range. The Dayton center (and sats) all have a minimum rating of 100hz. Audyssey configured my fronts and center to 150, my surrounds to 120, and my LFE to 100. From everything I've read, this seems too high all around.


Regardless, this would only diminish the low-end work that the center is doing, not the higher level stuff, right? Does the higher frequency stuff get passed on to the speakers with the higher crossover settings? Or does it work the other way around (lower frequencies getting passed down to the speakers with the lower crossover settings)? Obviously, I'm a total noob with all this stuff.


After adjusting the center channel volume down a bit, it takes a bit of the high edge off for average listening, but it still doesn't quite fix what I'm hearing in the higher levels. I'm incredibly timid when it comes to doing the custom equalization for each channel through my receiver, nor am I sure quite how it works. Could I just try turning down the higher frequency output for the center? And if I custom equalize one channel (center), do you know if this will force me to custom equalize _all_ of my channels?


Anyhow, I know this is a lot to ask without knowing the particulars of my space and speaker layout, but any advice or a useful link would help. I've searched through and read most of the relevant threads and links in the speakers forum, but I'm having a hard time taking it all in.


Thanks again.


----------



## aika

I am most impressed with Niro and Aperion at the moment.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Can anyone with the dayton HT-1200B setup speak up about your experience? Are the Dayton line of subs better than say the BIC H-100?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12729110
> 
> 
> Can anyone with the dayton HT-1200B setup speak up about your experience? Are the Dayton line of subs better than say the BIC H-100?



The Daytons HT-1200B's are the best speakers for the money--bar none. I am not saying they are the best speakers in the world by any means, but they are fair better than anything you'll find in an HTIB under $700. The subwoofers are a pretty good value too. They are well built and give solid, if a tad boomy, bass. They have ample power and, for $139 bucks, for a 12 inch 150 Watt (RMS) sub, you can't go wrong. If you are asking if the Dayton Sub-100 or Sub-120 is better than the BIC H-100, the answer is a definite NO. The BIC's a better sub. It's more musical and has better bass response. It is over $100 more, so that's something to consider.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

thanks Set....now how would they compare to say the Insignia bookshelves everyone picks up when they go on sale? people seem to think they are a solid deal though a bit more expensive they can sometimes be had for 50 a pair, and they are much larger, not that bigger is always better.


----------



## set2374

You may want to give Onkyo a call and asking what the settings mean. Crossover management varies by receiver. Generally speaking, the crossover point is the point cuts off the speakers at the low point and sub at the high point. In my setup, I have the crossover set at 100. I don't have a crossover setting for each individual speaker and have never had a receiver that did. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing??? It wouldn't make sense to me to have frequency on your main speakers that drops to 100 and cut it off at 150 (although there could be reasons why you would). Maybe you can try setting everything to 100 and see how that sounds? You also should make sure your speakers are set to small to ensure that your sub is doing the bulk of the work on the low frequencies. My pioneer has a habit of setting speakers to large when they should be set to small and I think this is common among many receivers. This is why I am not a big fan of auto setups.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *confidenceman* /forum/post/12726462
> 
> 
> Thanks. Yeah, I think it comes off a bit bright because the center is sitting in a much more open area (on the TV stand a few inches in front of the display).
> 
> 
> Trouble is, I'm not totally sure where to start with toning the center down. I adjusted the volume corrections to take a couple of dBs off the center, but I'm also thinking that Audyssey may have set my crossover frequencies too high.
> 
> 
> I had read that a good rule of thumb is to set your crossover 10-20hz or so above the speaker's minimum range. The Dayton center (and sats) all have a minimum rating of 100hz. Audyssey configured my fronts and center to 150, my surrounds to 120, and my LFE to 100. From everything I've read, this seems too high all around.
> 
> 
> Regardless, this would only diminish the low-end work that the center is doing, not the higher level stuff, right? Does the higher frequency stuff get passed on to the speakers with the higher crossover settings? Or does it work the other way around (lower frequencies getting passed down to the speakers with the lower crossover settings)? Obviously, I'm a total noob with all this stuff.
> 
> 
> After adjusting the center channel volume down a bit, it takes a bit of the high edge off for average listening, but it still doesn't quite fix what I'm hearing in the higher levels. I'm incredibly timid when it comes to doing the custom equalization for each channel through my receiver, nor am I sure quite how it works. Could I just try turning down the higher frequency output for the center? And if I custom equalize one channel (center), do you know if this will force me to custom equalize _all_ of my channels?
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I know this is a lot to ask without knowing the particulars of my space and speaker layout, but any advice or a useful link would help. I've searched through and read most of the relevant threads and links in the speakers forum, but I'm having a hard time taking it all in.
> 
> 
> Thanks again.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12740883
> 
> 
> thanks Set....now how would they compare to say the Insignia bookshelves everyone picks up when they go on sale? people seem to think they are a solid deal though a bit more expensive they can sometimes be had for 50 a pair, and they are much larger, not that bigger is always better.



I don't really know much about insignia speakers, other than they are the BB housebrand. I have heard some positive things about them, but I haven't heard them in anyone's home. As I recall, most of the insignias are bookshelf size speakers. The daytons are smaller--not tiny, but definitely small. If you're willing to go for bookshelf speakers, for the money, I would order the Polk R150's from fry for $50 a pair. With a CSR center, that's about $270 for five speaker set. That's definitely a good deal. Without a doubt it will sound better than the daytons, but it's also more than double the money.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Ok cool, thanks for taking the time to reply back. I see the black sets are sold out, but I might pick up the silver and live with it for the price


----------



## esmalley007

Well I finally got everything set up last night.


HK AVR 147 Receiver

Polk R150 Fronts

Polk CSR Center

Dayton Sat Rears

Dayton 10" 125w Sub


I followed the EzSet included with the HK and everything sounds great except for the sub. When I change channels, mute, change soyrces, etc there is a loud thud heard from the woofer. It's most annoying when watching an HD TV channel and then an SD commercial comes on. Thud!


The current settings on the sub are:


Set on Auto. Connected with Y cable to R&L Low Level Input

Gain: About 15%

Freq: 40

Phase: Normal


Also when I did the EzSet I had the sub setting just like that. Should I Have done something different on setup? Would appreciate your helop to get rid of the thud since I like keeping my sub on all the time, not just using it for movies.


Thanks for your help.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

The sub should probably be handling from 100hz down...if its only coming on at 40hz that would probably be why you hear a thud, because 40hz is a pretty low "thud" like frequency. Make sure you turn the freq knob on the sub all the way over so 200hz or whatever the max is...so that the AVR can control it, you may even go 120hz and below, I don't know what the R150's do midbass wise?


----------



## esmalley007

I will put it to the max (180) and try it, I might also do an new setup with the calibration at 180hz and control it with the avr. hope it works


thanks for the response.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

if you do the setup, I'm assuming it adjusts the DB Curve from +10 to -10, then just go to the setting for the LFE/SUB and set the crossover to 120 or 100hz and see what you like, for bookshelf speakers I like 120hz, the R150's say they go down to 60hz but I wouldn't even want to imagine that type of bass going through them at high volumes..


honestly, get a radioshack DB meter, I felt like I added a couple hundred dollars worth of sound to my system with simple calibration, I couldn't believe the difference. for 30 bucks, its a steal.


----------



## esmalley007

Ok. I tried what you said to no avail. I tried the EzSet and this is what it said:

Front Left: 13ft 0dB Small 200Hz

Center: 12ft 0dB Large 40Hz

Front Right" 12ft 0dB Small 200Hz

Surround R/L 5ft 0dB Small 200Hz

Sub: 12ft -6dB 200Hz


This seems odd, especially the crossover.


I then set up manually all crossovers to 100Hz. Is this better?

Also I can change Front L/R speaker size from Small to Large and this lets me control the sub between L/R+LFE and LFE only.

Sub is currently at 180Hz (max) still making that thud noise.


I guess I can deal with the noise, but i wanted to know if the EzSetup calibrations seem fine to you or should I do it manually, and if so do you think the settings i chose are good.


Thanks again for your help guys


----------



## dmxsoulja3

No....Set them all Small, make sure the distances are right or close, and set the crossover to 100/maybe even 120 depending on how loud you watch stuff even 100hz on small speakers at high volumes can cause distortion on small drivers. I set my sub to on, or off...the AUTO feature detects the sound and then turns it on..that could be your issue as well.


I think its also wierd that it is picking -6db for your sub, try setting the gain on the sub to about 11 o clock, and re doing everything at 100/120, and report back with that it picks


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *esmalley007* /forum/post/12758149
> 
> 
> Ok. I tried what you said to no avail. I tried the EzSet and this is what it said:
> 
> Front Left: 13ft 0dB Small 200Hz
> 
> Center: 12ft 0dB Large 40Hz
> 
> Front Right" 12ft 0dB Small 200Hz
> 
> Surround R/L 5ft 0dB Small 200Hz
> 
> Sub: 12ft -6dB 200Hz
> 
> 
> This seems odd, especially the crossover.
> 
> 
> I then set up manually all crossovers to 100Hz. Is this better?
> 
> Also I can change Front L/R speaker size from Small to Large and this lets me control the sub between L/R+LFE and LFE only.
> 
> Sub is currently at 180Hz (max) still making that thud noise.
> 
> 
> I guess I can deal with the noise, but i wanted to know if the EzSetup calibrations seem fine to you or should I do it manually, and if so do you think the settings i chose are good.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your help guys



I would set the crossover on the AVR to 80 with the R150's (don't worry about your rears). As far as the thud goes, that shouldn't be happening. You may want to call tech support at parts express. They're very helpful--you'll have no problems dealing with them. My hunch it's the auto on feature on the sub. As an experiment, you may want to try turning it on--no auto and see if it continues. Call Parts Express and see what they have to say. You may have an issue with the amp and they'll ship you a new one.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/12477393
> 
> 
> sid369, I just bought the h/k 146. I can't tell you whether the receiver has lip sync issues, but it does have a feature that can correct for it. If your TV has to do a significant amount of video processing or the video source is delayed, the 146 can delay the audio up to 80 msec to compensate.



I have noticed this with my Panny 50PX75U and my HK 147...any tips on how to go about this anyone?


----------



## bloodsage

YES!!! This is the thread I've been looking for for so long. I've reciently decided to redo my audio/video for home. I've purchased the Toshiba 46" 177 LCD, also the Onkyo 705 AVR. But between these 2 purchases and a home gym and lets not forget christmas, I've kinda blown my load. Now I'm trying to salvage good speakers. I really need smaller speakers.


I've read the entire thread at this point and am amazed at the info I've gotten. I cruse the forums often and mostly resigned myself to the fact that I couldn't get decent speakers in my price range. I was looking at the onkyo 240's, cnet has them highly rated and it's a 6.1 system. But after reading this thread I'm no longer so resigned to these.


I was leaning toward polk simply because there are a lot of store's locally that I could get them from, so upgrading later would be easier. I still am looking at the onkyo 240's, just because of the cnet rating (haven't let me down yet). The Dayton's look like they would be the perfect size, but I'm always a little leary of buying online from someplace myself or friends have never shopped at, but from what it sounds like several of the people on this thread have done exactly that and haven't ran into any problems.


I'm not an audiophile as far as knowledge of this stuff goes. I'm mostly a computer guy, it's kinda funny how I didn't even blink spending 2K on building my computer (minus monitor, 4th time I might add), $100 for a mouse, $100 for headphones, but spending more then $500 on speakers is making me criinge. Maybe because it's not something I understand, and I'm a little intimadated by it.


Thank you all for making me feel a little less intimated by the whole thing, and not feeling like I'm some idiot for blowing my load on a reciever and TV without thinking about speakers, I had just about lost all hope. This thread should be a sticky







.


Dayton 1200 look good, but Polk's have ease of purchase and ease of upgrading advantage. I'm pretty much sold on the Dayton 10" sub (12" would be way to much for my condo.)


----------



## esmalley007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12781389
> 
> 
> I would set the crossover on the AVR to 80 with the R150's (don't worry about your rears). As far as the thud goes, that shouldn't be happening. You may want to call tech support at parts express. They're very helpful--you'll have no problems dealing with them. My hunch it's the auto on feature on the sub. As an experiment, you may want to try turning it on--no auto and see if it continues. Call Parts Express and see what they have to say. You may have an issue with the amp and they'll ship you a new one.



I tried turning it to on and same thing. I emailed partsexpress and they said they've had this problem with HK receivers before and its the receivers problem. I'll call Monday and try to speak to someone about this.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *esmalley007* /forum/post/12794350
> 
> 
> I tried turning it to on and same thing. I emailed partsexpress and they said they've had this problem with HK receivers before and its the receivers problem. I'll call Monday and try to speak to someone about this.



That's interesting.... if you're having issues with the line level, you may want to try hooking the sub up to your avr using the the High level (speaker line in). This is not the preferred way, but it might work. I would actually call the PE tech support and see if you can get some one there that can offer you more of an explanation. H/K tech support should also be able to help, but I'll be they'll say it's the sub's problem. You shouldn't be having this problem. I know two other people personally that have purchased dayton subs (not including me) and this is the first time I have heard of anyone having this problem with one. Please let us know how this works out.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloodsage* /forum/post/12787521
> 
> 
> YES!!! This is the thread I've been looking for for so long. I've reciently decided to redo my audio/video for home. I've purchased the Toshiba 46" 177 LCD, also the Onkyo 705 AVR. But between these 2 purchases and a home gym and lets not forget christmas, I've kinda blown my load. Now I'm trying to salvage good speakers. I really need smaller speakers.
> 
> 
> I've read the entire thread at this point and am amazed at the info I've gotten. I cruse the forums often and mostly resigned myself to the fact that I couldn't get decent speakers in my price range. I was looking at the onkyo 240's, cnet has them highly rated and it's a 6.1 system. But after reading this thread I'm no longer so resigned to these.
> 
> 
> I was leaning toward polk simply because there are a lot of store's locally that I could get them from, so upgrading later would be easier. I still am looking at the onkyo 240's, just because of the cnet rating (haven't let me down yet). The Dayton's look like they would be the perfect size, but I'm always a little leary of buying online from someplace myself or friends have never shopped at, but from what it sounds like several of the people on this thread have done exactly that and haven't ran into any problems.
> 
> 
> I'm not an audiophile as far as knowledge of this stuff goes. I'm mostly a computer guy, it's kinda funny how I didn't even blink spending 2K on building my computer (minus monitor, 4th time I might add), $100 for a mouse, $100 for headphones, but spending more then $500 on speakers is making me criinge. Maybe because it's not something I understand, and I'm a little intimadated by it.
> 
> 
> Thank you all for making me feel a little less intimated by the whole thing, and not feeling like I'm some idiot for blowing my load on a reciever and TV without thinking about speakers, I had just about lost all hope. This thread should be a sticky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Dayton 1200 look good, but Polk's have ease of purchase and ease of upgrading advantage. I'm pretty much sold on the Dayton 10" sub (12" would be way to much for my condo.)




Go for the Polks. They are bigger, but they are a better sounding speaker overall. You spent a small fortune on your avr and to use the dayton speakers is a bit like taking an engine built for a BMW 750IL and sticking it into a Honda Accord. The Honda's not a bad car at all, but it's not meant to be paired with a BMW V8 engine. The polks will give you good bang for the buck--R50's front, CSR and 150's rear, dayton sub-120, all for around $350. They Daytons and the Polk R series both offer excellent bang for the buck, but in this case, you the extra money you'll spend on the Polk's will be buying a lot more bang for the buck. $350-400 for a full 5.1 system that sounds really good is really nothing-- and speakers, unlike computer equipment and AVR's don't become obsolete.


I have AR speakers from the 70's and Polk Monitor 10's from the late 80's that will blow most speakers out there today. AVR's, on the other hand, do become antiquated after 5 or 6 years in the HT world. If it were up to me and a person is on a tight budget, I would recommend getting the best speakers you can afford and buying a decent entry or near-entry level avr now. There are just a lot of major improvements that have been made in the high end equipment and they'll trickle down over the next two years because of the rise of BluRay and direct downloads. Once this technology becomes standardized, the technology to take advantage of these features will trickle down the product lines. I guarantee that in two years (maybe sooner), most of the entry level or near entry level avrs (in the $250 street range) will have hdmi processing and will be able to decode TrueHD and DTS-HD--something you really can't get today for anything less than $500 (Onkyo 605). Speakers in two years will be essentially the same (maybe change the name of a particular model or change the cabinet design for stylistic reasons). Speaker technology changes slowly and the improvements aren't noticeable unless you are one of those rare audiophiles that really has an ear that can spot a misplayed note in an concerto played by a string quartet (which makes you part of less one percent of the population--- and half of the so-called audiophiles are full of sh#t anyone and are only buying equipment based on lables and really can't tell the difference between their $2000 a piece speakers and my $350 a piece Polk Monitor 70's.


The moral of this story, if you're into music and HT, but are still a normal person with a normal budget, invest in a set of good quality mid-fi speakers (like Polks, SVS, Infinity, JBL etc), abd spend just enough to get an avr that sounds good and can run the most common formats available today--with the understanding that you may want to upgrade in two or three years. Don't worry, the avr you're about to buy could be put to good use as an amp to run speakers in another zone or in a secondary set up in your bedroom or office.


For a small room on a budget or for a bedroom set up, the Dayton HTS-1200 is a great option, but you shouldn't buy them thinking you can use the money you save for a better avr (that's just not the way to go on this decision). I am definitely NOT trying to make anyone feel bad about their decisioin, I just want to make sure the newbies that read this thread understand my recommendations and don't take them out of context.


----------



## chitown_badger

I've been having an issue with syncing up the tv with the sound output on my system. I've got the dish receiver connected to the AV receiver (HK 147) via HDMI, and then the receiver connected to the TV via HDMI. The problem I'm having is that on some channels, the tv is actually AHEAD of the sound from the receiver, but it seems like the only thing I can do is delay the sound from the receiver further....not speed it up. Is there a way to speed up the sound from the receiver so that it syncs with the tv? Or is this a setup/connection thing?


----------



## dmxsoulja3

that is because the receiver processes the sound some, in my opin. I usually use Optical audio from the box to the receiver, then HDMI from box to tv. I'm not about all this hdmi switching through an audio device even if it means I have to get up and go click a button. Which now with my IR controlled 4 port HDMI switch I don't have to do


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12810889
> 
> 
> that is because the receiver processes the sound some, in my opin. I usually use Optical audio from the box to the receiver, then HDMI from box to tv. I'm not about all this hdmi switching through an audio device even if it means I have to get up and go click a button. Which now with my IR controlled 4 port HDMI switch I don't have to do



Sorry I didn't mention that...I am using an optical cable from the dish the receiver for the sound (HDMI for picture), then receiver to TV via hdmi. It seems weird that I can't speed it up but can only slow it down


----------



## dmxsoulja3

I do mine like this....decide do you use speakers all the time, or tv speakers sometimes? I have a projector so I don't have a choice, speakers all the time...so optical from cable box to receiver, HDMI from cable box to tv/projector.... otherwise I would do optical to receiver, hdmi to tv, and then use HDMI audio/video on tv's speakers.


----------



## bloodsage

I decided to go for the polks. I have my r150's coming from fry's and my dayton 100 from parts express on the way.


Now, I HATE the cherry of the r50's, seriously dislike the looks of it. Black, silver, oak, pine, maple would have worked, anything but cherry. Question, how about the monitor 50's? I realize they are more expensive, but after shipping from fry's as opposed to free shipping from amazon, it's not too much more. Another quick question, would the CSR work for the monitor or would I need to get the CS1 or whatever the next center is, so they timbre match or whatever.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloodsage* /forum/post/12811317
> 
> 
> I decided to go for the polks. I have my r150's coming from fry's and my dayton 100 from parts express on the way.
> 
> 
> Now, I HATE the cherry of the r50's, seriously dislike the looks of it. Black, silver, oak, pine, maple would have worked, anything but cherry. Question, how about the monitor 50's? I realize they are more expensive, but after shipping from fry's as opposed to free shipping from amazon, it's not too much more. Another quick question, would the CSR work for the monitor or would I need to get the CS1 or whatever the next center is, so they timbre match or whatever.



The monitor 50s are generally more expensive and a step up, if you can get them for about the same price go for it. You'd want to use the CS1 with the monitor series for timbre matching. The tweeters are different. For surrounds it wouldn't matter as much if you wanted to go with the R150s and same a few $$.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12811234
> 
> 
> I do mine like this....decide do you use speakers all the time, or tv speakers sometimes? I have a projector so I don't have a choice, speakers all the time...*so optical from cable box to receiver, HDMI from cable box to tv/projector.*... otherwise I would do optical to receiver, hdmi to tv, and then use HDMI audio/video on tv's speakers.



I use the speakers all the time and turn down the tv speakers. I do it like you mentioned above...but I still get a delay on the sound from the system speakers. I just don't know how to remedy this.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

so you don't have your HDMI going through the receiver at all? so HDMI directly to tv...optical to the reciever. and your getting delay? and by delay I'm assuming you are seeing their mouth move, but the audio is a bit behind? thats pretty wierd, I mean optical obviously should be very fast, and though your receiver is processing the audio a little bit DSP, decoding, etc it should still be fine, I get some sync issues from time to time but it happends without the receiver meaning my cable company is having an issue.


hmmm...


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12811699
> 
> 
> so you don't have your HDMI going through the receiver at all? so HDMI directly to tv...optical to the reciever. and your getting delay? and by delay I'm assuming you are seeing their mouth move, but the audio is a bit behind? thats pretty wierd, I mean optical obviously should be very fast, and though your receiver is processing the audio a little bit DSP, decoding, etc it should still be fine, I get some sync issues from time to time but it happends without the receiver meaning my cable company is having an issue.
> 
> 
> hmmm...



sorry...I may have written it wrong. I have an HDMI from the Dish Network to the receiver. I have an optical from the Dish Network to the receiver for the audio. Then, I have the HDMI from the receiver to the TV. I would think that running the video from the dish to the receiver, then to the TV would actually slow it down, but it's the opposite...like you stated above (with the mouth moving and the audio slightly behind).


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Try this...because you misunderstood me....take one HDMI from dish to tv don't go through the receiver.....then optical to receiver and thats it...


what happens?


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12811917
> 
> 
> Try this...because you misunderstood me....take one HDMI from dish to tv don't go through the receiver.....then optical to receiver and thats it...
> 
> 
> what happens?



I'll give that a shot tonight. I would think that would make the problem worse, as there is no longer the intermediate step for the video of going through the receiver and then out to tv...but like I said, I'll give it a shot, can't hurt!


----------



## dmxsoulja3

try also instead of optical, grab an RCA and go digital coax from dish to receiver see if that changes anything, like I said there is some processing going on somewhere that is causing that delay. Did you mention somewhere what reciever your using?


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12812114
> 
> 
> try also instead of optical, grab an RCA and go digital coax from dish to receiver see if that changes anything, like I said there is some processing going on somewhere that is causing that delay. Did you mention somewhere what reciever your using?



For whatever reason, the HD dish receiver doesn't have a digital coaxial output. I was initially planning on using the coax, but the only option was optical. That doesn't make much sense to me.


(And I have an HK 147 receiver)


----------



## Spelly88

Great thread!


I'm looking to make myself a small bedroom HT now that I have a Philips 47" LCD in there. I was thinking of the AVR147 and the Dayton speakers. I don't think my wife would go for the R50's.


My components are a high-def cable/dvr box, a PS3, and probably an HD-DVD player in the near future.


One main question: Do I actually need to have a sub with this setup? Are the Dayton speakers good enough where I can get by watching sports and some blu ray movies without missing a lot audio-wise? I'm in an apartment and wondering if I can get away with just the 5 speakers...


Thanks!


----------



## bloodsage

This is what I've been able to some up with.


Polk r50's and csr. And just paint the r50's. or

for $125 more Monitor 50's and CS1.


Is the monitor50 and CS1 that much better then the r50 and CSR?


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spelly88* /forum/post/12812919
> 
> 
> Great thread!
> 
> 
> I'm looking to make myself a small bedroom HT now that I have a Philips 47" LCD in there. I was thinking of the AVR147 and the Dayton speakers. I don't think my wife would go for the R50's.
> 
> 
> My components are a high-def cable/dvr box, a PS3, and probably an HD-DVD player in the near future.
> 
> 
> One main question: Do I actually need to have a sub with this setup? Are the Dayton speakers good enough where I can get by watching sports and some blu ray movies without missing a lot audio-wise? I'm in an apartment and wondering if I can get away with just the 5 speakers...
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I'm far from an audiophile, but from reading on here, I'm guessing most would tell you to definitely pick up a sub. The speakers you are considering wont be able to handle the low frequencies and would struggle to put out good sound. You can get a decent sub for about $100. I bought the Dayton 10" sub for $135.


----------



## bloodsage

Same here, for a bedroom you could more then likely get away with a Dayton 80.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spelly88* /forum/post/12812919
> 
> 
> Great thread!
> 
> 
> I'm looking to make myself a small bedroom HT now that I have a Philips 47" LCD in there. I was thinking of the AVR147 and the Dayton speakers. I don't think my wife would go for the R50's.
> 
> 
> My components are a high-def cable/dvr box, a PS3, and probably an HD-DVD player in the near future.
> 
> 
> One main question: Do I actually need to have a sub with this setup? Are the Dayton speakers good enough where I can get by watching sports and some blu ray movies without missing a lot audio-wise? I'm in an apartment and wondering if I can get away with just the 5 speakers...
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You are going to miss the sub. The dayton's are small speakers with a low of around 100-110hz. They are light on bass and are intended to be matched with a sub. You probably don't need a monster sub though.


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12820626
> 
> 
> You are going to miss the sub. The dayton's are small speakers with a low of around 100-110hz. They are light on bass and are intended to be matched with a sub. You probably don't need a monster sub though.



Set, any recommendations or thoughts on my issues with the video from the TV being ahead of the sound from the receiver?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chitown_badger* /forum/post/12822801
> 
> 
> Set, any recommendations or thoughts on my issues with the video from the TV being ahead of the sound from the receiver?



Not sure about this one--which is why didn't speak up earlier. Sometimes the broadcast itself is not properly synced. I know in the case of dvd players, some of the better ones (Sony, Pioneer etc) have a feature to allow you to manually sync the video and audio. I am not aware of this feature in an avr, although it is possible that it's there burried in the instructions. Do you see a sync problem on any of your other t.v.'s? You may also want to call up the dish net tech support for advice.


I have some stations on my cable service that are a little delayed. It's a tad annoying but not enough for me to get freaked out over. I am sorry I can't be more helpful on this.


----------



## bloodsage

I'm still wondering about the r50 CSR vs monitor 50 CS1. Would it be worth the extra $125 to get the monitor's as opposed to the r series?


----------



## UMHockeyFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *esmalley007* /forum/post/12794350
> 
> 
> I tried turning it to on and same thing. I emailed partsexpress and they said they've had this problem with HK receivers before and its the receivers problem. I'll call Monday and try to speak to someone about this.



First, thanks to Set for adding so much helpful info! I love my setup so far, except for the same "thud" issue when I am switching channels while watching TV. Esmalley, any additional word from partsexpress and/or H/K on the problem? I am experiencing the same "thud" you are every time I change the channel on my cable box. The "thud" is not loud and just sounds like the sub powering off and on on the delay between changing stations. I have the sub amp set to on, not auto. I have not set up the dvd or my playstation yet to see if the same problem happens with those inputs yet, I hope to try tonight.


As an aside, the first time I powered up the sub (with nothing plugged into it), the sub let out a HUGE thud, I practically jumped onto the ceiling. Not sure if that is a sign I received a bad sub....


My setup:

K/K AVR-146

Dayton HTS1200S

Dayton SUB-100 (output on low power line from AVR to sub)

Input from TWC digital cable:

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC (video on HDMI through AVR146, audio to AVR146 via optical)


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bloodsage* /forum/post/12830717
> 
> 
> I'm still wondering about the r50 CSR vs monitor 50 CS1. Would it be worth the extra $125 to get the monitor's as opposed to the r series?



Just be to clear, the CSR is the center spearker for the r series and the CS1 is entry level center for the monitor series. The CS1 is a better center speaker than the CS1--larger drivers and it's an 8 ohm speaker versus 4 ohm for the CSR. As far as the R50 versus the Monitor 50. I believe the R50 actually has larger drivers and it's probably the better speaker of the two. I haven't demoed an R50 since none of the stores in the New York area carry them in stock. I own speakers from the monitor series (including a CS1 and I am very happy with them). I was driving my home theater with a pair of Monitor 30's up front and they are excellent speakers and were more than adequate as fronts for my 13.5x17 room. I don't think you can go wrong with either the monitor 50's or R50's. I can't tell you how to spend your money, but unless you are really an audiophile with very sensitive ears I doubt you'll appreciate much of a difference between the two speakers (which are comparable). You're decision will be based mostly on looks. Also, in the future it might be easier to add speakers and improve the system and retain matching speakers from a cosmetic standpoint with the monitor series (which isn't going anywhere).


----------



## set2374

Just to throw out another option, you may want to take a look at the Fluance SX-HTB system. Here's a link to the cnet review:




Someone went this route on the thread and was really happy with it. For $300 shipped for a 5 speaker set with towers that have dual 6.5" drivers, that's a nice deal. I haven't heard them, but based on the reviews it might be worth considering. They are really nice looking too (IMO).


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12826571
> 
> 
> Not sure about this one--which is why didn't speak up earlier. Sometimes the broadcast itself is not properly synced. I know in the case of dvd players, some of the better ones (Sony, Pioneer etc) have a feature to allow you to manually sync the video and audio. I am not aware of this feature in an avr, although it is possible that it's there burried in the instructions. Do you see a sync problem on any of your other t.v.'s? You may also want to call up the dish net tech support for advice.
> 
> 
> I have some stations on my cable service that are a little delayed. It's a tad annoying but not enough for me to get freaked out over. I am sorry I can't be more helpful on this.



Thanks for the reply. It's not so much an issue with DVDs. I've got the Sony 77H. It's more with tv shows and movies from the TV. I guess I'll see if I get the same issue out of the tv's speakers. If it's not happening there, at least I know it's an issue with the AVR or the connection.


----------



## bloodsage

I've been thinking about it and I don't think that I have the space for floorstanders. I've been looking at it for a few weeks trying to get floor speakers to work out in my head and I just can't see it. Decided to go with the Monitor 40's for the front and the CS1 for the center. Maybe a few years down the road I'll be able to expand to floor speakers and use the 40's as rears.


----------



## esmalley007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UMHockeyFan* /forum/post/12831995
> 
> 
> First, thanks to Set for adding so much helpful info! I love my setup so far, except for the same "thud" issue when I am switching channels while watching TV. Esmalley, any additional word from partsexpress and/or H/K on the problem? I am experiencing the same "thud" you are every time I change the channel on my cable box. The "thud" is not loud and just sounds like the sub powering off and on on the delay between changing stations. I have the sub amp set to on, not auto. I have not set up the dvd or my playstation yet to see if the same problem happens with those inputs yet, I hope to try tonight.
> 
> 
> As an aside, the first time I powered up the sub (with nothing plugged into it), the sub let out a HUGE thud, I practically jumped onto the ceiling. Not sure if that is a sign I received a bad sub....
> 
> 
> My setup:
> 
> K/K AVR-146
> 
> Dayton HTS1200S
> 
> Dayton SUB-100 (output on low power line from AVR to sub)
> 
> Input from TWC digital cable:
> 
> Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC (video on HDMI through AVR146, audio to AVR146 via optical)




I still haven't had a chance to call Parts Express or H/K. I've been traveling and just got back. My brother is coming in tomorrow and I'll have him call PE and maybe they can help him step by step.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Anyone have/heard the SUB80. I'm going to be honest I think a 10/12" sub in an apartment is going to be asking for trouble that I don't want to deal with. I guess as bad as this sounds is I'd like to just hear the midbass/bass and not so much feel it and I'm wondering if the sub80 would be able to do that in a apt style living room and not make to much ruckus for the neighbors. I drive nice cars and don't want something magically happening to them when I'm gone due to some "haters"


----------



## Spelly88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UMHockeyFan* /forum/post/12831995
> 
> 
> First, thanks to Set for adding so much helpful info! I love my setup so far, except for the same "thud" issue when I am switching channels while watching TV. Esmalley, any additional word from partsexpress and/or H/K on the problem? I am experiencing the same "thud" you are every time I change the channel on my cable box. The "thud" is not loud and just sounds like the sub powering off and on on the delay between changing stations. I have the sub amp set to on, not auto. I have not set up the dvd or my playstation yet to see if the same problem happens with those inputs yet, I hope to try tonight.
> 
> 
> As an aside, the first time I powered up the sub (with nothing plugged into it), the sub let out a HUGE thud, I practically jumped onto the ceiling. Not sure if that is a sign I received a bad sub....
> 
> 
> My setup:
> 
> K/K AVR-146
> 
> Dayton HTS1200S
> 
> Dayton SUB-100 (output on low power line from AVR to sub)
> 
> Input from TWC digital cable:
> 
> Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC (video on HDMI through AVR146, audio to AVR146 via optical)



I just purchased pretty much the exact same configuration as you did. My only difference is I wound up buying the HK AVR-147 instead of the 146. I thought about not getting a sub at all, but guys here convinced me I should get one so I went with the Dayton 10". My stuff will probably arrive early next week, so I'll keep you posted on if my sub gives off the "thud" noise as well...


----------



## chitown_badger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spelly88* /forum/post/12836222
> 
> 
> I just purchased pretty much the exact same configuration as you did. My only difference is I wound up buying the HK AVR-147 instead of the 146. I thought about not getting a sub at all, but guys here convinced me I should get one so I went with the Dayton 10". My stuff will probably arrive early next week, so I'll keep you posted on if my sub gives off the "thud" noise as well...



I have the Dayton 10, and I don't get much of a thud. Sometimes a small one when switching from Dish to DVD. It's not bad though...nothing when changing channels.


Also, soulja...go with the 10"...you can always turn it down.


----------



## alco23

I signed up to say this thread rocks! Lots of friendly advice and help which I wasn't really expecting from a audiophile forum. Makes me want to stay and contribute now







.


I'm upgrading from a set of Logitech Z-5500 to the following based on what I've read here:

Dayton Sub-100 -partsexpress

Polks R150 -Frys

Polk CSR -Frys

Receiver? Looking at H/K 146/7. -ebay?

Grabbing some 14g speaker wire from monoprice.


----------



## Themajickman

First of all I want to thank everybody for all the great information on this thread. I'm in the process of putting together your basic 5.1 Home theater system. My situation is a little unique in that I'm a quadriplegic and I spend 99% of my time in bed. Needless to say speaker placement is going to be a bit tricky. I narrowed it down to two choices, and I would love some feedback and input to help me decide which way to go.


My preference is to run the optical audio from my wall-mounted Sharp 52 LCD directly into the receiver and that would be the only audio input I would use. All of my other equipment is connected via HDMI directly to the TV.


Due to enthusiasm and indecision I have actually purchased all the equipment listed below and is expected to arrive on Monday. I have two systems and need decide which one to return.


System #1


HK AVR 146

Dayton sub 80 (need a splitter to connect the HK single output)

5 Bose cube speakers (please don't flame me on the Bose speakers, they cost me almost nothing)

Does anybody know if there would be a problem using the HK AVR 146 to drive the five Bose speakers because of the impedance?



System #2


Sony DAV-IS10


I have heard both good and bad things about the system.


I do understand that the system has some issues with the sub actually reproducing higher frequencies which can affect the placement


Since I'm unable to move my bed position in relationship to the TV, the Sony system has a plus because of the automatic calibration feature.




Once again, I really appreciate any feedback that I can get.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Well I heard the Sony DAV and I was not impressed, I was about 6 ft away from it and the volume almost had to be at max for me to enjoy it, and then when I heard vocals coming from the sub I was like wow.... in my opin. money wasted.


Maybe you should post your budget, no one is going to be a big fan of bose...hell I'd say AVR 146, Dayton 1200s 5.0, then Dayton sub of choice...cheap, and going to sound better than both of your options.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Themajickman* /forum/post/12857356
> 
> 
> First of all I want to thank everybody for all the great information on this thread. I'm in the process of putting together your basic 5.1 Home theater system. My situation is a little unique in that I'm a quadriplegic and I spend 99% of my time in bed. Needless to say speaker placement is going to be a bit tricky. I narrowed it down to two choices, and I would love some feedback and input to help me decide which way to go.
> 
> 
> My preference is to run the optical audio from my wall-mounted Sharp 52” LCD directly into the receiver and that would be the only audio input I would use. All of my other equipment is connected via HDMI directly to the TV.
> 
> 
> Due to enthusiasm and indecision I have actually purchased all the equipment listed below and is expected to arrive on Monday. I have two systems and need decide which one to return.
> 
> 
> System #1
> 
> 
> HK AVR 146
> 
> Dayton sub 80 (need a splitter to connect the HK single output)
> 
> 5 Bose cube speakers (please don't flame me on the Bose speakers, they cost me almost nothing)
> 
> Does anybody know if there would be a problem using the HK AVR 146 to drive the five Bose speakers because of the impedance?
> 
> 
> 
> System #2
> 
> 
> Sony DAV-IS10
> 
> 
> I have heard both good and bad things about the system.
> 
> 
> I do understand that the system has some issues with the sub actually reproducing higher frequencies which can affect the placement
> 
> 
> Since I'm unable to move my bed position in relationship to the TV, the Sony system has a plus because of the automatic calibration feature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, I really appreciate any feedback that I can get.



Go with system 1, by far the best choice. The 147 is a great receiver to build a system around.


You won't need a splitter to connect the 147 to a sub. The sub signal is mono so their is no advantage of using both the R & L inputs on the sub unless you have issues with the auto on/off sensor then using both can help, but that's rare.


You'll want to run audio straight to the receiver instead of your TV. Most TVs have issues with outputting multichannel audio through the digital output that was input to the tv especially with HDMI. Connecting each component to the AVR a much better way to go.


I'm not sure what the impedance is of those Bose cubes and I think their are better choices for speakers but the 147 should have no problem powering them.


Also just food for thought since it seems you got a great deal on them. You might want to research ebay and see what they are going for. You might be able to auction them and move into a better speaker system for little or nothing.


----------



## Themajickman

Believe me, I really appreciate the input!


I was actually leaning toward system 1 myself. The Bose cubes ended up costing me a little under $200 and came with the wall/ceiling mounts. I'll definitely check out eBay and see what my other options might be. I kind of liked the size of the cubes because of my room layout. If I could find something comparable in size it would be great. In fact, the speaker size was what actually drew me to the Sony system.


Both systems ended up costing me a little under $550 each. And being on Social Security that was right about what my budget was, LOL.


Since I have basic cable without a STB I thought the optical audio was the best route to go for the sound into the receiver. I can always run a separate audio for the DVD player into the receiver. If I start connecting more items to the receiver then the Sony system is definitely out of the picture (even though it does have a built-in DVD player).


I don't think I'm going to go through the exchange process from the AVR 146 to the AVR 147. So, is there some kind of problem using a splitter for the sub-80?


----------



## Jakeman02

Sry I was assuming you had either a sat or cable receiver. You'll have to go digital out, to the receiver digital in, in that case. I would still run the DVD player audio directly to the receiver.


You don't need to use a splitter to connect the receiver to the SUB 80. Just a basic subwoofer or quality RCA cable will work.


----------



## Themajickman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12858577
> 
> 
> Sry I was assuming you had either a sat or cable receiver. You'll have to go digital out, to the receiver digital in, in that case. I would still run the DVD player audio directly to the receiver.
> 
> 
> You don't need to use a splitter to connect the receiver to the SUB 80. Just a basic subwoofer or quality RCA cable will work.



Well, I think I've just about decided that the Sony system is out. I should be able to sell it on craigslist or eBay and get back some of my money Now, if I can only find some decent tiny speakers I'll have it made.


I'll probably hook it up using the Bose cubes to start within see where I'm at.



Thanks again for the advice and information.


----------



## qbbraveheart

ok so heres what I plan to get....please tell me this is ok or else i might just give up on it all together lol...ive been researching for months!!!!!


HK AVR 146

x2 Polk R150's

Polk CSR Center

Dayton sub(at a later date)


now a few questions...


1.does this setup sound good to everyone else??? any problemos? not looking to spend much and want to be nicey nicey with others


2.should I get the 147 over the 146?


3.can I just hook the audio up to the receiver and run the video source from each component directly to the tv or does it have to go through the receiver?


thanks for the input!


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qbbraveheart* /forum/post/12871754
> 
> 
> ok so heres what I plan to get....please tell me this is ok or else i might just give up on it all together lol...ive been researching for months!!!!!
> 
> 
> HK AVR 146
> 
> x2 Polk R150's
> 
> Polk CSR Center
> 
> Dayton sub(at a later date)
> 
> 
> now a few questions...
> 
> 
> 1.does this setup sound good to everyone else??? any problemos? not looking to spend much and want to be nicey nicey with others
> 
> 
> 2.should I get the 147 over the 146?
> 
> 
> 3.can I just hook the audio up to the receiver and run the video source from each component directly to the tv or does it have to go through the receiver?
> 
> 
> thanks for the input!



1. Yeah sounds like an awesome budget setup, other than the Dayton sub, I've tried the Sub120 and didn't like it at all. The price is sweet though and it had lots of output, if you're using it strictly for HT it might suffice but I use mine for music as well and that's where if feel short for me. Anyway if you're getting it later you have plenty of time to decide. If you decide and can move up slightly in price to $200 + shipping the Bic H-100 is a much better choice imo.


2. I'm not sure about the feature difference between the 146 and 147. Both are excellent budget receivers and as far as sound quality and power it's a wash, they are both great. The 146 is the previous model and you should be able to get a better price on it. If it has the features you can live with I'd go for it, save a few bucks and add to the budget for a sub.


3. Yes you can go either way running both video and audio through the receiver or video straight to the tv. The main difference is if you don't run them both through the receiver you'll have to switch your video source at the TV and audio at the receiver, not a big deal though.


----------



## qbbraveheart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/12872730
> 
> 
> 1. Yeah sounds like an awesome budget setup, other than the Dayton sub, I've tried the Sub120 and didn't like it at all. The price is sweet though and it had lots of output, if you're using it strictly for HT it might suffice but I use mine for music as well and that's where if feel short for me. Anyway if you're getting it later you have plenty of time to decide. If you decide and can move up slightly in price to $200 + shipping the Bic H-100 is a much better choice imo.
> 
> 
> 2. I'm not sure about the feature difference between the 146 and 147. Both are excellent budget receivers and as far as sound quality and power it's a wash, they are both great. The 146 is the previous model and you should be able to get a better price on it. If it has the features you can live with I'd go for it, save a few bucks and add to the budget for a sub.
> 
> 
> 3. Yes you can go either way running both video and audio through the receiver or video straight to the tv. The main difference is if you don't run them both through the receiver you'll have to switch your video source at the TV and audio at the receiver, not a big deal though.



thanks for clearing that up


I will do all the switching thru the receiver then instead of the gazillion remotes lol


----------



## qbbraveheart

one other question I had was would the 146 or 147 decode or allow me to hear TrueHD and the new audio formats....I will be running HDMI for video only on my HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players to the receiver and have seperate OPTICAL AUDIO connections just for audio to the receiver


just wanted to know If I'll get all those new audio formats


----------



## qbbraveheart

never mind lol


im going with the HK AVR 247


----------



## KingLion

*What about the old Logitech z5500? Would that be good for an apartment? I hear alot and researched on here and everyone pretty much says this system is awesome is about $250 now at places.*


----------



## qbbraveheart

ok so I read through about 90% of this thread and man my head is killing me right now lol


seems to be some issues with the receivers when paired up to the PS3


heres my setup that I would run:


HK AVR 247

PS3(games & Blu-Ray) via HDMI to AVR--->TV via HDMI

360 via compenent to AVR(720p)--->TV via component

HD-DVR via component to AVR(720p)--->TV via component

HD-DVD via HDMI to AVR--->TV via HDMI


the issues im mainly concerned about is the PS3/HD-DVD and the different formats

I really dont listen to music on my PS3...more so my 360 or HD-DVD player

Im a audio noob so would I really be able to tell the difference between all these formats??? do they really sound that different from one to the next?


because if I wont be able to tell the difference Ill just go with a Onkyo HTIB lol


ahhhhhhhh...ok end rant


im soooo confused and worried and I just want to pull the trigger on this receiver


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qbbraveheart* /forum/post/12879625
> 
> 
> ok so I read through about 90% of this thread and man my head is killing me right now lol
> 
> 
> seems to be some issues with the receivers when paired up to the PS3
> 
> 
> heres my setup that I would run:
> 
> 
> HK AVR 247
> 
> PS3(games & Blu-Ray) via HDMI to AVR--->TV via HDMI
> 
> 360 via compenent to AVR(720p)--->TV via component
> 
> HD-DVR via component to AVR(720p)--->TV via component
> 
> HD-DVD via HDMI to AVR--->TV via HDMI
> 
> 
> the issues im mainly concerned about is the PS3/HD-DVD and the different formats
> 
> I really dont listen to music on my PS3...more so my 360 or HD-DVD player
> 
> Im a audio noob so would I really be able to tell the difference between all these formats??? do they really sound that different from one to the next?
> 
> 
> because if I wont be able to tell the difference Ill just go with a Onkyo HTIB lol
> 
> 
> ahhhhhhhh...ok end rant
> 
> 
> im soooo confused and worried and I just want to pull the trigger on this receiver




If you're an audio snob and you have a mid- to high end system, you'll be able to tell the difference between DTS-HD MA, TruHD and the other lossless formats from compressed formats. It's the difference between listening to a lossless CD over a high end cd player versus an ipod playing compressed downloads. The recording are true to the original master recording without lossing body and flavor like you get with a compressed music. Now, this only matters if you're a true audio snob/audiophile and can actually tell the difference between compressed music over an ipod and a lossless cd or LP on a good turntable. The bulk of people probably won't appreciate the difference and if you're running your HDM over a $300 HTIB from the likes of samsung or sony (and even the better Onkyo HTIB's), it certainly won't make a big difference at all. I also believe the PS3, assuming you have one of the better versions, can also play SACDs.


The other key thing that will matter to some people is the ability to play discrete 7.1 tracks offered by bluray and hd dvd. I believe the AVR 247 can do this, but I am not sure if it can decode all of the HD Audio resolutions. I also don't believe the PS3 can internally process DTS HD MA (I think, depending on the model, it can handle TruHD). I think the best "budget" receiver for handling this via HDMI 1.3 is prob. the Onkyo 605-which you can find for around $400.


For wouldbe audiophiles with good receivers that aren't HDMI compatible (this includes pass through) and you want to enjoy the premium sound features available with bluray or hd dvd, you're best bet is to go with a Toshiba A35, (HD DVD) which has 5.1 analog outputs or something like the Panasonic DMP-BD10A (Bluray), which has 7.1 analog outputs--and you can let the player handle the processing and act as the preamp. Most bluray players on the market have at least 5.1 analog outs, but not all of them can process the newer HD sound formats--so check first.


I just picked up the panny bluray this weekend and the sound quality is quite good if you have a bluray disc that has the newer formats. PQ varies depending on the transfer--some look about the same as regular upconverted dvd and others look better (but not by leaps and bounds). You really notice to difference in video rather than film (like the Planet Earth discs). As the studios improve the quality of their transfers, I think this HDM formats will improve. For now, I would recommend sticking with a good upconverting dvd like the Sony 77H or Oppo 975 (unless you can pick up a good bluray player like the Panny for around $250) or want to mess around with a Toshiba A3 for $130.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Set.. other than the daytons what do u feel is the next bang for the buck speaker setup?


----------



## draemon

Hey guys, this has been a great thread so far!


I have a bit of a dilemma. I have a newly bought Yamaha 6060 AVR sitting on the floor doing nothing at the moment, because I have no speakers for it. I picked it up on sale planning to buy some for it later. Problem is that I live in a small town and auditioning any speakers is a six hour round trip so I'm looking to order them online. A blind.. or deaf perhaps.. purchase.


I'm far far far from an audiophile but my TV speakers just aren't cutting it. I'm looking for some entry level fronts that I can eventually add surround onto or move into surround positions. The primary use is Movies/Games (Rockband!). My budgets around $500-600. They also need to look decent.


Right now i'm looking at;


Infinity Primus 362
http://infinitysystems.com/home/prod...USA&Country=US 


Elemental Designs A6-6T6
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...products_id=96 


Axiom M50 v2 (Bit over budget..)
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m50ti_main.html 


Energy RC-10
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...variation=PRNT 


Swan Diva 5.1BC
http://www.theaudioinsider.com/produ...products_id=47 


Was also considering B&W 685s or that Fluance HT deal. Any opinions or other suggestions on these would be much appreciated. Drowning in choices here!


Sorry I listed so many, I think I could list about fifty more with as many reviews and anecdotes I've been reading.


----------



## Kingcarcas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmxsoulja3* /forum/post/12902028
> 
> 
> Set.. other than the daytons what do u feel is the next bang for the buck speaker setup?



I'm curious also if the Dayton-HTS1200s are better than a setup of Polk R150s/CSR.


----------



## Boston Irish

First off - Thank you set2374 for the help.

I have gone ahead and bought two R50 two R150 and a CSR.


I have seen this post though about the CSR being rear ported. I had hoped to put it in a shelf directly below the TV (but its an Oak type TV stand and I am wondering if it will sound right being rear ported. its not fully sealed in or anything but is in a sort of wooden box with only the front fully open).


Any ideas?


----------



## sega

The best thread ever! Special thanks to Set for such detailed information.


I was about to buy HTIB (Onkyo HT-SR800) when I discovered this thread. And of course I changed my mind and now I'm buying separate components. I will use the system in my apartment’s living room; its size is roughly 17’x12x12. I already ordered Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver. Now I want to buy Dayton HTS-1200B and Dayton 10' sub. But I have a problem with this - black Dayton 1200 is out of stock both on amazon and on parts express... According to the info on parts express, it will be back in stock only on 2/28. I assume both amazon and parts express get Dayton speakers through one channel; so most likely amazon will not sell black Dayton 1200 until the end of February as well. I don't want to buy grey 1200 (it won't look good in my room) and I also don't want to wait more than a month... Is there any alternative considering that I want small satellites (Polk are really too big for me) and my budget for 4 sat + center + sub is $300-350?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draemon* /forum/post/12903435
> 
> 
> Hey guys, this has been a great thread so far!
> 
> 
> I have a bit of a dilemma. I have a newly bought Yamaha 6060 AVR sitting on the floor doing nothing at the moment, because I have no speakers for it. I picked it up on sale planning to buy some for it later. Problem is that I live in a small town and auditioning any speakers is a six hour round trip so I'm looking to order them online. A blind.. or deaf perhaps.. purchase.
> 
> 
> I'm far far far from an audiophile but my TV speakers just aren't cutting it. I'm looking for some entry level fronts that I can eventually add surround onto or move into surround positions. The primary use is Movies/Games (Rockband!). My budgets around $500-600. They also need to look decent.
> 
> 
> Right now i'm looking at;
> 
> 
> Infinity Primus 362
> http://infinitysystems.com/home/prod...USA&Country=US
> 
> 
> Elemental Designs A6-6T6
> http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...products_id=96
> 
> 
> Axiom M50 v2 (Bit over budget..)
> http://www.axiomaudio.com/m50ti_main.html
> 
> 
> Energy RC-10
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...variation=PRNT
> 
> 
> Swan Diva 5.1BC
> http://www.theaudioinsider.com/produ...products_id=47
> 
> 
> Was also considering B&W 685s or that Fluance HT deal. Any opinions or other suggestions on these would be much appreciated. Drowning in choices here!
> 
> 
> Sorry I listed so many, I think I could list about fifty more with as many reviews and anecdotes I've been reading.



You can do a lot of that budget. If you like floorstanders, the Fluance, with a BIC H-100 sub would be a nice set up. You can also go for some Polk R series (not sure what the current prices are but they have excellent deals on them from time to time).


If you're looking for a smaller seakers, I really like the Def Tech pro-cinema series. The entry level 600 series should fall in your price range if you shop around online. I also like the mirage nanostats ( http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/mirage-nanosat-5-1/4505-7868_7-31624255.html ) and the Polk RM6880.


Unfortunately, you really need to audition them to know which one you'll be happiest with. They are all pretty solid performers. If you can go with bigger speakers, bookshelf (Polk Monitor 40's front ($225 pair), Monitor 30's rear ($150 a pair) and CS1 center ($120, and a Bic H-100 ($250) or Dayton Sub-120 ($140)), you'll have a really sweet sounding system too.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kingcarcas* /forum/post/12904072
> 
> 
> I'm curious also if the Dayton-HTS1200s are better than a setup of Polk R150s/CSR.



In short, they are definitely not better. I recommended the Daytons for people on a budget that are thinking of buying a $350 HTIB because they think they can't do any better. The Daytons a very good respectable speakers for the price. They are well made, clear and have nice detail. They are also relatively small speakers that are great for a small room. However, they are no where near as good as the polks in terms of sound quality. The polks have better tone, range and accuracy. They play louder and have much more full sound to them. They are also substantially bigger and bigger drivers (5.5 inch drivers versus 3.5 inch drivers). MDF cabinet versus plastic. The R150s are much better in all respects.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boston Irish* /forum/post/12905692
> 
> 
> First off - Thank you set2374 for the help.
> 
> I have gone ahead and bought two R50 two R150 and a CSR.
> 
> 
> I have seen this post though about the CSR being rear ported. I had hoped to put it in a shelf directly below the TV (but its an Oak type TV stand and I am wondering if it will sound right being rear ported. its not fully sealed in or anything but is in a sort of wooden box with only the front fully open).
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



I think as long as you have a couple of inches behind it to move air you'll be fine with the CSR. Just keep in mind it's a pretty big center so make sure it can fit.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sega* /forum/post/12908504
> 
> 
> The best thread ever! Special thanks to Set for such detailed information.
> 
> 
> I was about to buy HTIB (Onkyo HT-SR800) when I discovered this thread. And of course I changed my mind and now I'm buying separate components. I will use the system in my apartment’s living room; its size is roughly 17’x12x12. I already ordered Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver. Now I want to buy Dayton HTS-1200B and Dayton 10' sub. But I have a problem with this - black Dayton 1200 is out of stock both on amazon and on parts express... According to the info on parts express, it will be back in stock only on 2/28. I assume both amazon and parts express get Dayton speakers through one channel; so most likely amazon will not sell black Dayton 1200 until the end of February as well. I don't want to buy grey 1200 (it won't look good in my room) and I also don't want to wait more than a month... Is there any alternative considering that I want small satellites (Polk are really too big for me) and my budget for 4 sat + center + sub is $300-350?



Wow.. 2/28 it a long time when you want to play with a toy. I do prefer the Daytons with the Dayton sub for a sub $300 package, but it's not the only option out there. Here are a few other options to consider if you need a small system on a $300-350 budget:


The Polk 6750 can be found online for a bout $250. They are small sat type speakers with spring clips (not my favorite). They do sound nice though, but they aren't my favorites on the market (mostly because not a huge fan of the sub in the package). That said, for $250 (J&R) it's not a bad deal. Way better than any HTIB under $600.
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/infinity-total-solutions-tss/4505-7868_7-31254643.html 


If you want to go in the other direction, you can pick up a Fluance system for $200 or $300 (depending on the package you pick) and you'll have 2 three way floorstanders, with center and two satellites. For another $100 you can get a Dayton Sub-100 or Sub-120. That's a great sounding budget system.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sega* /forum/post/12908504
> 
> 
> The best thread ever! Special thanks to Set for such detailed information.
> 
> 
> I was about to buy HTIB (Onkyo HT-SR800) when I discovered this thread. And of course I changed my mind and now I'm buying separate components. I will use the system in my apartment’s living room; its size is roughly 17’x12x12. I already ordered Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver. Now I want to buy Dayton HTS-1200B and Dayton 10' sub. But I have a problem with this - black Dayton 1200 is out of stock both on amazon and on parts express... According to the info on parts express, it will be back in stock only on 2/28. I assume both amazon and parts express get Dayton speakers through one channel; so most likely amazon will not sell black Dayton 1200 until the end of February as well. I don't want to buy grey 1200 (it won't look good in my room) and I also don't want to wait more than a month... Is there any alternative considering that I want small satellites (Polk are really too big for me) and my budget for 4 sat + center + sub is $300-350?



Wow.. 2/28 it a long time when you want to play with a toy. I do prefer the Daytons with the Dayton sub for a sub $300 package, but it's not the only option out there. Here are a few other options to consider if you need a small system on a $300-350 budget:


The Polk 6750 can be found online for a bout $250. They are small sat type speakers with spring clips (not my favorite). They do sound nice though, but they aren't my favorites on the market (mostly because not a huge fan of the sub in the package). That said, for $250 (J&R) it's not a bad deal. Way better than any HTIB under $600. Another similar option is the Infinity TSS-450, which is priced about the same as the polks.


If you want to go in the other direction, you can pick up a Fluance system for $200 or $300 (depending on the package you pick) and you'll have 2 three way floorstanders, with center and two satellites. For another $100 you can get a Dayton Sub-100 or Sub-120. That's a great sounding budget system


----------



## sega




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12911436
> 
> 
> If you want to go in the other direction, you can pick up a Fluance system for $200 or $300 (depending on the package you pick) and you'll have 2 three way floorstanders, with center and two satellites. For another $100 you can get a Dayton Sub-100 or Sub-120. That's a great sounding budget system



Thanks for the advice! I took a look at Fluance and I liked one of their systems: AV-HTB+. It has 2 pretty small rear satellites (at least they are smaller than Polk R15) – and this is good for me since I don’t want big or floorstanding rear speakers. Also it fits my budget. Now the question is: what system will have better sound – Dayton 1200 or Fluance AV-HTB+? I would really appreciate any input on this!


----------



## Kingcarcas

Thanks set2374 you're the man!


----------



## Ducats




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12911262
> 
> 
> In short, they are definitely not better. I recommended the Daytons for people on a budget that are thinking of buying a $350 HTIB because they think they can't do any better. The Daytons a very good respectable speakers for the price. They are well made, clear and have nice detail. They are also relatively small speakers that are great for a small room. However, they are no where near as good as the polks in terms of sound quality. The polks have better tone, range and accuracy. They play louder and have much more full sound to them. They are also substantially bigger and bigger drivers (5.5 inch drivers versus 3.5 inch drivers). MDF cabinet versus plastic. The R150s are much better in all respects.



New guy here--great forum and thread.


Question I have is at what point does a room become too big to be adequately covered entirely by a speaker system like the Dayton 1200 & sub or Polk M6570?


Reason I ask is that I would like to get the R150's for our 400 sq. ft. family room, but my wife wants smaller speakers. She doesn't care about the sound, only how it's going to look in the room. In fact, if she had her way, we wouldn't have any speakers in there except for the ones built into the TV. For some strange reason, she's not as excited as me about this whole 50" plasma and surround sound package thing







.


So, is it possible to have a surround system with satellites for the fronts and rears that sounds good in a room that size while staying within a $300 budget for the speakers and sub?


Thanks


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Is there any alternative considering that I want small satellites (Polk are really too big for me) and my budget for 4 sat + center + sub is $300-350?



Get them while they last, which wont be long!
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIACT 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIESW 


or piece this system together

2 pair of Athena LS-50 @$55/pr
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS50 


1 LS-50 Center @$49
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLSC50 


AS-P4100 subwoofer @$149
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASP4100B 


about $310 for the whole thing.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sega* /forum/post/12911855
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice! I took a look at Fluance and I liked one of their systems: AV-HTB+. It has 2 pretty small rear satellites (at least they are smaller than Polk R15) - and this is good for me since I don't want big or floorstanding rear speakers. Also it fits my budget. Now the question is: what system will have better sound - Dayton 1200 or Fluance AV-HTB+? I would really appreciate any input on this!



I would probably have to say the Fluance. Check out the review on CNET. It's a very good system for the money, but you have to be willing to have floorstanders for your fronts and some people aren't into that.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ducats* /forum/post/12920274
> 
> 
> New guy here--great forum and thread.
> 
> 
> Question I have is at what point does a room become too big to be adequately covered entirely by a speaker system like the Dayton 1200 & sub or Polk M6570?
> 
> 
> Reason I ask is that I would like to get the R150's for our 400 sq. ft. family room, but my wife wants smaller speakers. She doesn't care about the sound, only how it's going to look in the room. In fact, if she had her way, we wouldn't have any speakers in there except for the ones built into the TV. For some strange reason, she's not as excited as me about this whole 50" plasma and surround sound package thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> So, is it possible to have a surround system with satellites for the fronts and rears that sounds good in a room that size while staying within a $300 budget for the speakers and sub?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Yes, you can certainly have a nice sounding system for $300. You can get buy with the Daytons 1200, but I would say you're right at the out limits of what I would recommend for a room that size. 400 is about 20x20. That's a pretty nice size room. You can go with the 1200, but I would recommend you get a Sub-120 for a room that size. I still think you'd be better off with the R150's if audio quality is your main concern. If you're trying to please your wife, you may have to compromise on sound quality a bit.


----------



## set2374

Scrap my previous suggestions on the polks and infinities (and if you can go up a $100 bucks on the Daytons). These Athena options that Afrogt threw out are are too good to pass up. Athena makes some serious excellent quality stuff. I would certainly go this route if I was looking to to put together a 5.1 system and needed to stick with smaller satellite/bookshelf speakers. The prices on audio advisor are insanely good.


If you're going for the R50/150 package from polk, stick with that. I still prefer the R50's over Athena sats. It's a major engineering challenge to get big sound out of a small speaker and you're best bang if sound quality is your primary concern is to give up compact size for bigger speakers.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12921598
> 
> 
> Get them while they last, which wont be long!
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIACT
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIESW
> 
> 
> or piece this system together
> 
> 2 pair of Athena LS-50 @$55/pr
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS50
> 
> 
> 1 LS-50 Center @$49
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLSC50
> 
> 
> AS-P4100 subwoofer @$149
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASP4100B
> 
> 
> about $310 for the whole thing.


----------



## sega




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12921598
> 
> 
> Get them while they last, which wont be long!
> 
> or piece this system together
> 
> 2 pair of Athena LS-50 @$55/pr
> 
> 1 LS-50 Center @$49
> 
> AS-P4100 subwoofer @$149
> 
> about $310 for the whole thing.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12922253
> 
> 
> Scrap my previous suggestions on the polks and infinities (and if you can go up a $100 bucks on the Daytons). These Athena options that Afrogt threw out are are too good to pass up. Athena makes some serious excellent quality stuff. I would certainly go this route if I was looking to to put together a 5.1 system and needed to stick with smaller satellite/bookshelf speakers. The prices on audio advisor are insanely good.
> 
> 
> If you're going for the R50/150 package from polk, stick with that. I still prefer the R50's over Athena sats. It's a major engineering challenge to get big sound out of a small speaker and you're best bang if sound quality is your primary concern is to give up compact size for bigger speakers.




I would like to thank Afrogt and Set for their help - their answers were right on time! I decided to jump on this deal for Athena. I've just made a quick research and it looks like the price offered by audioadvisor is really good. I decided to follow Afrogt's advice and to buy 2 pairs of LS-50 (4 bookshelf speakers) + 1 LS-C50 (center) + 1 AS-P4100 (sub). Unfortunately, audioadvisor don't offer free shipping on clearance items and the total was $413.







First I decided to pass but then I realized that I will use this system for a couple of years, so additional $50-$100 is not such a big deal (am I catching a bug?







). Plus right before placing an order I saw Set's comment on Athena (right on time - thanks again!) and it also proved that I should go this route (as I said before, Polk 50/150 is not an option for me since they are too big plus I would prefer bookshelf fronts). Anyway, I just pulled the trigger and I'm really very happy about this! I can't wait until they arrive - I want to build the system and try it today!


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Ahh those athena's are a great deal, i was waiting on possibly getting the Insignia's when they go on sale for 50 from best buy because they have pretty decent low-end as my setup unfortunately is not going to have a sub as it will be in a bedroom of an apartment, but the athena's are great speakers and at 55 a pair that is a steal plus they are small where space is a premium.


----------



## Ducats




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12922190
> 
> 
> Yes, you can certainly have a nice sounding system for $300. You can get buy with the Daytons 1200, but I would say you're right at the out limits of what I would recommend for a room that size. 400 is about 20x20. That's a pretty nice size room. You can go with the 1200, but I would recommend you get a Sub-120 for a room that size. I still think you'd be better off with the R150's if audio quality is your main concern. If you're trying to please your wife, you may have to compromise on sound quality a bit.



Thanks, Set. That's what I kind of thought. I'm going to bring this up to her again and see if she'll change her mind on the 150's. Maybe she'll get sick of me asking her about it and just give in







.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sega* /forum/post/12922598
> 
> 
> I would like to thank Afrogt and Set for their help – their answers were right on time! I decided to jump on this deal for Athena. I've just made a quick research and it looks like the price offered by audioadvisor is really good. I decided to follow Afrogt's advice and to buy 2 pairs of LS-50 (4 bookshelf speakers) + 1 LS-C50 (center) + 1 AS-P4100 (sub). Unfortunately, audioadvisor don’t offer free shipping on clearance items and the total was $413.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I decided to pass but then I realized that I will use this system for a couple of years, so additional $50-$100 is not such a big deal (am I catching a “bug”?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Plus right before placing an order I saw Set’s comment on Athena (right on time – thanks again!) and it also proved that I should go this route (as I said before, Polk 50/150 is not an option for me since they are too big plus I would prefer bookshelf fronts). Anyway, I just pulled the trigger and I’m really very happy about this! I can’t wait until they arrive – I want to build the system and try it today!



Anytime buddy. Please come back on and post your impressions after you get your equipment setup. Over the past few months, i have talked to dozens of people on here and not enough come back on to post their impressions and comments.


You made a good call going for the Athenas. They are a really nice sounding speaker. Athena may not have the name recognition of some other brands like Bose, Polk, Infinity etc... but they probably make some of the tightest speakers at the 400-700 range. I would definitely compare them with the Klipsch and def tech procinema 600's. You got a lot of speaker for the money. I don't think you could do better for the money on a small speaker set. You'll be very happy with them.


----------



## afrogt

You're welcome Sega, I love spending other people's money!


Too bad about the shipping though.


----------



## Spelly88

Set2374 or Afrogt,


Are those Athena LS-50's better then the Dayton HTS1200's you think?


Or is it not much of a difference?


I bought the Dayton's along with the 10" sub, but if that Athena deal is amazing and they are much better, I could buy those and Ebay the Daytons or something... If it's only a marginal upgrade, then I wouldn't bother...


And if so, I also would just keep the 10" Dayton sub and use that with the Athena's... So I'd basically buy 2 pairs of the bookshelves plus the center for like $159 total... Would that be ok?


What do you guys think?


----------



## bacardi 151

I have several questions as far as this pricing goes...


I'm looking to upgrade to a 7.1 system...Thinking about going with polks and front towers...Frys has both the center CSR and the 150 bookshelves OUT OF STOCK, do you guys have another source at around the same price?


Also, where are you guys finding the Dayton sub so cheap? Due to shipping, they're all pushing $200...Do you guys think the 130w/channel 7.1 HtiBOnkyo which is $400 would be good if you put a pair polk R50s up front?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bacardi 151* /forum/post/12940990
> 
> 
> I have several questions as far as this pricing goes...
> 
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade to a 7.1 system...Thinking about going with polks and front towers...Frys has both the center CSR and the 150 bookshelves OUT OF STOCK, do you guys have another source at around the same price?
> 
> 
> Also, where are you guys finding the Dayton sub so cheap? Due to shipping, they're all pushing $200...Do you guys think the 130w/channel 7.1 HtiBOnkyo which is $400 would be good if you put a pair polk R50s up front?



If you have a frys locally they may have some in store or give them a call they might be able to tell you if and when they expect anymore in. jr.com has the R150s and crutchfield has the CSR although not quite as good of a deal as frys/outpost but still not bad.


Parts Express.com has the Dayton subs. I just put the Sub 100 in my cart to check shipping and was 

Onkyo HTIB systems come with the same grade of receivers as they sell separately, yes any of their HTIB receivers would have no problems with te R150, R50s are any 8ohm speaker with good efficiency for that matter.


----------



## bacardi 151

Thanks for the reply Jake! With the dayton, I was pricing the 12"...


What do you guys think would sound the best for in a small room for under a grand?


Do you think a 7.1 HTIB like the onkyo I posted paired with the BIC sub and polk R50s up front? Or should I spend another $300 to build the system from scratch which includes 4 R150s for surrounds, a CSR center?


Option #1. Onkyo HTIB 7.1 ($415 OTD/out the door), polk r-50s up front ($160 OTD) and BIC sub ($250 OTD)...Total of $815...


Anyone have an better option 2?


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bacardi 151* /forum/post/12943750
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply Jake! With the dayton, I was pricing the 12"...
> 
> 
> What do you guys think would sound the best for in a small room for under a grand?
> 
> 
> Do you think a 7.1 HTIB like the onkyo I posted paired with the BIC sub and polk R50s up front? Or should I spend another $300 to build the system from scratch which includes 4 R150s for surrounds, a CSR center?
> 
> 
> Option #1. Onkyo HTIB 7.1 ($415 OTD/out the door), polk r-50s up front ($160 OTD) and BIC sub ($250 OTD)...Total of $815...
> 
> 
> Anyone have an better option 2?



If you're talking about the Onkyo 800 HTIB and wanting to replace the included speakers and sub with the polks and bic I would just Opt for the Onkyo 505 receiver which is the same receiver(different model number) and purchase the speakers separately. I just did a price search and that should save you around $170 on the system.


For the price you have listed you could go for the Onkyo 605 and polk/bic setup and that would give you the advantage of HDMI audio over the 505.


----------



## PSKmustang

I am looking for a 5.1 surround sound set of speakers. Let me give you some information on what my room looks like and the set up I would like to hook up. I read through most of this post but I am still as confused as ever. I got the basics down on what I need but going with different speakers and all is off. Basically I have no problem with someone telling me here are 3 x of speakers and 3 x of receivers... take your pick.


I have about a 15' x 15' box of a room. The wall where you walk in is the same wall with the closet. Opposite this wall is a window. That leaves two other walls. Both those walls are bare (no windows / doors). So I have a 32" 1080p Sharp Aquos (with HDMI inputs). Opposite that is my bed and I usually watch in a chair 3 feet off the wall.


Basically I want as much wall mounting as possible (except the center speaker which can be wall mounted or placed on a low set furniture. I would love to wall mount the two front speakers and of course wall mount on the corner ceiling the back speakers.


I am on a budget and would like to spend between $400 - $600. I have absolutely no problem buying in pieces and could work with a 3.1 system and just add the rears when I get the money.


If there is a receiver that can support 7.1 for a decent price (not sure about this), then I wouldn't mind waiting a bit so that I have an upgradeable system.


Finally, the only things I will be connecting to the receiver will be my PS3 (HDMI), eventually a DVR/Cable box (HDMI), and a Wii (Component).


Thanks again, sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure I put in as much information as possible.


----------



## JaredT

After pouring through this information rich thread multiple times in addition to conducting my personal research, I am going to finally make my first post. By nature, I am a knowledge junkie and this forum has only fueled my growing interest in a/v related topics. I'll admit, I have found the sheer amount of information overwhelming and even intimidating at times. But overall it was very enjoyable to read posts by true enthusiasts. I joined avsforum to get recommendations on a sleek/minimalist looking HTIB that would not be too intrusive in my living room. But, I quickly discovered that I would have to give up a lot in sound quality, power, and money to achieve a certain look, if at all, possible. It took a few days to let go of the idea of a simple one box HTIB solution. I am happy to say, that based on the awesome information you guys have provided I have decided on something that fits my budget, achieves close to the look I am going for and I'm sure, will sound pretty freaking nice once hooked up to my ps3 while playing blueray movies...


In any case, I have decided on the following system:


H/K AVR 147 (best in stock price I could find was $265 on amazon )

Polk RM 6750 (best in stock price I could find was $199, on electronics express)


Know of any better prices?? or merchants?


Video:

PS3 (already have)

Sony Bravia KDL 46V3000 (already have)


Once again, thanks for all the very insightful and detailed posts guys!


-Jared


----------



## InigoMontoya

First off, thank you to everyone that has posted in this thread. As a newbie in A/V, this thread has been amazingly educational!


My question is this: I'm leaning towards getting an Onkyo 605, but given the choice between a set of Fluance speakers or the R50/150/CSR combo, which one would sound better/have higher quality sound?


I plan on watching TV/movies, playing games, as well as listening to music on the system.


Thanks in advance to everyone!


P.S. This community is awesome.


----------



## bacardi 151

If you're into familar name brands and surface area, I put together a great sony package at amazon...


239.99 Towers SSF-7000 dual 8s

89.99 center SS-CN5000 dual 5.25s

84.98 surrounds SS-B3000 8" woofer

159.99 sub SA-W3800 15" sub

574.95 shipped....


Every review seemed very positive, only couple negatives were the towers weren't bassy enough, but hopefully that sub will take care of that.


I think I'm going to up my budget...If you had a grand to send on 7.1s, should I just get the BIC system or something else?


----------



## bigslickak

Based on the advice in this thread, I purchased the following:


HK 146 from Best Buy - open box special $199.99

Dayton SUB-100 from Parts Express (via Amazon) - $124

Dayton HTS-1200 speaker set (silver version, black is sold out) from Parts Express - $98.80


shipping for the speakers and sub was $43.62


I think I got a pretty good system for $466.41, wish the prices were like they were before Xmas, but I'll take it. Funny story about the HK 146, it was listed as $299.99 on the Best Buy sales floor but I went for the open box one they had for a 15% discount. So I paid about $265 for it. Well, someone left some Best Buy documentation in the box that said the suggested sale price should be $199.99. I went back and showed them this and they gave me the difference in cash










Overall, the system sounds pretty good. My living room is quite small, as it is a condo. The sub is awesome. The only complaint I have is that I originally was running everything (audio AND video) through the AVR, but the picture quality was sub par. When I ran the XBOX 360 through it, it even looked more like 480p than HD. There was also some 60 Hz noise or something (like a dim slow scrolling line, etc) on the screen. I had to run the video directly to the TV. I guess it could be the poor quality of the cable I was running from the monitor component out on the AVR to the TV, but it could be that the video switching in the AVR 146 is not good, I don't know. It is not a big deal though.


----------



## PSKmustang

(PLEASE refer to my post a few replies up on pg. 12)


So I decided to just price a few systems and here is what I am thinking. It's a bit out of my original budget but I just found out I may have a promotion coming in the next few weeks so it should be ok.


Also, I want this system to last me quite a few years so I would rather spring for the 7.1.


So I am thinking of going with:

Receiver: HK AVR-247 ($339 at parkaveelectronics.com)

Speakers: Athena ATMIACT ($299 at audioadvisor.com)


Assuming someone cannot think of any improvements, is there any other solution for wall mounting the speakers? Mini shelves?


Also, besides the above mentioned, what else will I need to hook up my speakers (I got the HDMI cables, still need to purchase the component cable for the wii and I need to get the component cable for the audio for the PS3... once I get HD cable I will worry about those cables then). So I am guessing I will need speaker wire and what else would make installation easier?


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigslickak* /forum/post/12964500
> 
> 
> Based on the advice in this thread, I purchased the following:
> 
> 
> HK 146 from Best Buy - open box special $199.99
> 
> Dayton SUB-100 from Parts Express (via Amazon) - $124
> 
> Dayton HTS-1200 speaker set (silver version, black is sold out) from Parts Express - $98.80
> 
> 
> shipping for the speakers and sub was $43.62
> 
> 
> I think I got a pretty good system for $466.41, wish the prices were like they were before Xmas, but I'll take it. Funny story about the HK 146, it was listed as $299.99 on the Best Buy sales floor but I went for the open box one they had for a 15% discount. So I paid about $265 for it. Well, someone left some Best Buy documentation in the box that said the suggested sale price should be $199.99. I went back and showed them this and they gave me the difference in cash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, the system sounds pretty good. My living room is quite small, as it is a condo. The sub is awesome. The only complaint I have is that I originally was running everything (audio AND video) through the AVR, but the picture quality was sub par. When I ran the XBOX 360 through it, it even looked more like 480p than HD. There was also some 60 Hz noise or something (like a dim slow scrolling line, etc) on the screen. I had to run the video directly to the TV. I guess it could be the poor quality of the cable I was running from the monitor component out on the AVR to the TV, but it could be that the video switching in the AVR 146 is not good, I don't know. It is not a big deal though.



I am glad you like the system.







Too bad you didn't get in on the holiday pricing, but, overall, it's still a good value.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PSKmustang* /forum/post/12965618
> 
> 
> (PLEASE refer to my post a few replies up on pg. 12)
> 
> 
> So I decided to just price a few systems and here is what I am thinking. It's a bit out of my original budget but I just found out I may have a promotion coming in the next few weeks so it should be ok.
> 
> 
> Also, I want this system to last me quite a few years so I would rather spring for the 7.1.
> 
> 
> So I am thinking of going with:
> 
> Receiver: HK AVR-247 ($339 at parkaveelectronics.com)
> 
> Speakers: Athena ATMIACT ($299 at audioadvisor.com)
> 
> 
> Assuming someone cannot think of any improvements, is there any other solution for wall mounting the speakers? Mini shelves?
> 
> 
> Also, besides the above mentioned, what else will I need to hook up my speakers (I got the HDMI cables, still need to purchase the component cable for the wii and I need to get the component cable for the audio for the PS3... once I get HD cable I will worry about those cables then). So I am guessing I will need speaker wire and what else would make installation easier?



If you're looking for a future proof system, I would probably recommend getting the Onkyo 605 over the 247. I believe the 247 can hand pcm signals over hdmi, but it's not 1.3a compatible and can't decode trueHD and DTS-HD MA internally (the 605 can). The sound quality on the HK maybe slightly better than the onkyo, but not enough to make me choose it over the 605. If someone else (Afrogt perhaps??) know more about the 247, please chime in. I am all for the athena speakers. You'll be happy with them.


----------



## junozz

Polk R300 is on sale on Fry's. What will be the most price efficient Front and Rear combination among these? Can you compare R300 and RTi8 with R50?


Polk R300 $49.99

Polk RTi8 $149.90

Polk R150 $49.99 (Pair)

Polk R50 $59.99 (Sold out)


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *junozz* /forum/post/13009945
> 
> 
> Polk R300 is on sale on Fry's. What will be the most price efficient Front and Rear combination among these? Can you compare R300 and RTi8 with R50?
> 
> 
> Polk R300 $49.99
> 
> Polk RTi8 $149.90
> 
> Polk R150 $49.99 (Pair)
> 
> Polk R50 $59.99 (Sold out)



A pair of R300s with R150 surrounds will be the most cost effective solution. The RTi8s aren't matched with the R50s but matching between front and rears isn't as important and the RTi8s are much better speakers at 3x the cost.


If your budget is up for it, using the RTi8s for fronts is a much better solution although not the most price efficient.


----------



## Volunteer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12921598
> 
> 
> Get them while they last, which wont be long!
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIACT
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMIESW
> 
> 
> or piece this system together
> 
> 2 pair of Athena LS-50 @$55/pr
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS50
> 
> 
> 1 LS-50 Center @$49
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLSC50
> 
> 
> AS-P4100 subwoofer @$149
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ber=ATASP4100B
> 
> 
> about $310 for the whole thing.



I'm trying to decide on either the Onkyo 908 HTIB or Onkyo 605 + Separate Speakers (center, 4 sats, sub) which can't be towers. The room is 15x20' and use will be split between HT, CD, FM.


I'm looking to spend NO more than $700 and assuming I can get the 908 for about $700 and the 605 for $350 (or better) which option would you take?


Are there better speaker sets to be had for the incremental $350 than are included with the 908? (I really don't care about the extra 2 speakers or DVD player or iPOD dock that is also included with the 908.)


The Polk 6750 has been mentioned as a reasonable alternative the 908 speakers and I went to CC yesterday to give it a listen as was NOT impressed. They also had the Polk RM10's in the sound room and they were a bit better, but still not mind blowing.


The Athena's that are referenced above would get me in under budget. How do they compare with the Polk's?


Which of the three Athena sub's referenced above would be considered the "best" and why?


Any other comments or suggestions are also appreciated.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Volunteer* /forum/post/13029436
> 
> 
> I'm trying to decide on either the Onkyo 908 HTIB or Onkyo 605 + Separate Speakers (center, 4 sats, sub) which can't be towers. The room is 15x20' and use will be split between HT, CD, FM.
> 
> 
> I'm looking to spend NO more than $700 and assuming I can get the 908 for about $700 and the 605 for $350 (or better) which option would you take?
> 
> 
> Are there better speaker sets to be had for the incremental $350 than are included with the 908? (I really don't care about the extra 2 speakers or DVD player or iPOD dock that is also included with the 908.)
> 
> 
> The Polk 6750 has been mentioned as a reasonable alternative the 908 speakers and I went to CC yesterday to give it a listen as was NOT impressed. They also had the Polk RM10's in the sound room and they were a bit better, but still not mind blowing.
> 
> 
> The Athena's that are referenced above would get me in under budget. How do they compare with the Polk's?
> 
> 
> Which of the three Athena sub's referenced above would be considered the "best" and why?
> 
> 
> Any other comments or suggestions are also appreciated.



The Polk 6750 and RM10's are ok for a small room. They aren't outstanding speakers by any means. Polk does make higher end satellite systems, but I think the Athenas offer great bang for the buck and are well respected in these parts. I have personally only auditioned the micra 6's and thought they were very good speakers. The Onkyo 908 is a nice sounding system and certainly one of the better HTIB's I have heard. You're comparing apples to oranges though. The onkyo has a dual driver bookshelf type speakers and they are far from the compact speakers like the polk 6750's or athena micra 6's. It's easier to generate better range and sound from bigger speakers. It's when you can get a small speaker to produce the kind of sound that you expect from a full size speaker that is really impressive. To get this kind of performance, you really need to look at systems like the Definitive Technology's ProCinema 800 or 1000 series.


If you're looking to get a better sound/value, I would look at the Polk R series or the fluance speakers HTB+ package, with a good, inexpensive sub like the Bic h-100 or Dayton Sub-120. If you package them with a Onkyo 605, you should be right around the pricepoint your shooting for. The onkyo speakers are nice, but they aren't awesome by any means. They are spring clip bindings and fairly ordinary components and are really no better than sony or pioneer bookshelf speakers you can buy for $35-40 a pair. It's only when you compare them with plastic 3 and 4 ohm samsung and sony htib speakers that make the Onkyo's seem so much great.


----------



## Volunteer

Thanks for the feedback set. I take it from you comments that if I'm primarily interested in sound quality I would be better served for my incremental $350 by buying a separate speaker package than just going with the 908 speaker set.


My problem is my room size (15x20) and the WAF (no towers) so I don't know if I am going to be able to find a much better sounding small speaker solution for $350 (including sub) that is much better than the 908 speaker set.


How would you say the Athena Micra6's compare to the Polk 6570/RM10 level of speaker performance? ... significantly better? ... good enough for a 15x20 room?


Also, do you have any thoughts on the relative merits of the Athena sub's that Afrogt mentioned vs the Dayton?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Volunteer* /forum/post/13042663
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback set. I take it from you comments that if I'm primarily interested in sound quality I would be better served for my incremental $350 by buying a separate speaker package than just going with the 908 speaker set.
> 
> 
> My problem is my room size (15x20) and the WAF (no towers) so I don't know if I am going to be able to find a much better sounding small speaker solution for $350 (including sub) that is much better than the 908 speaker set.
> 
> 
> How would you say the Athena Micra6's compare to the Polk 6570/RM10 level of speaker performance? ... significantly better? ... good enough for a 15x20 room?
> 
> 
> Also, do you have any thoughts on the relative merits of the Athena sub's that Afrogt mentioned vs the Dayton?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



The Athenas are much better IMO for a sat system. You also may want to take a look at the AV123 X-series, which are also nice speakers. The thing is, a 15 x 20 is a nice size room. The smaller speakers just have a tough time giving you the frequency range and power to really envelop you with sound. If you're looking at the Onkyo HTIB, i see know reason why you can't consider some decent bookshelf speakers. You can take a look at the Polk R series (which are inexpensive and nice sounding). You can also go for a pair of Monitor 30's front ($150 a pair if you shop), M10's rear ($75-100 a pair)and a CS1 ($100-$150) and you can go for something like a Dayton sub-120 for ($150) for a total of ~$450. If you're willing to really shop around online, you can probably save a few more dollars and get the whole thing down around $375-400. You should also be able to find the Onkyo 605 for around $350. You may be edging slightly above $700, but you're really getting a much better system at the end of the day. This is basically what I used for about a year before I caught upgrade fever and bought some Polk Monitor 70's for my fronts. The 70's are really overkill for my application (but I love them). The Monitor 30 are really outstanding mid-fi speakers and I can't say enough about them. They play LOUD and with excellent clarity and detail. I never once heard them distort even at ear cracking volume. Because the monitor 30's are rear ported, they really do need to be placed on speaker stands, but they are still bookshelves, so they should get by the WAF issue. I would go this route over the sat speakers, but if you really need to keep it small, the athenas are are the way to go for your budget.


----------



## sega




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12928381
> 
> 
> Anytime buddy. Please come back on and post your impressions after you get your equipment setup. Over the past few months, i have talked to dozens of people on here and not enough come back on to post their impressions and comments.
> 
> 
> You made a good call going for the Athenas. They are a really nice sounding speaker. Athena may not have the name recognition of some other brands like Bose, Polk, Infinity etc... but they probably make some of the tightest speakers at the 400-700 range. I would definitely compare them with the Klipsch and def tech procinema 600's. You got a lot of speaker for the money. I don't think you could do better for the money on a small speaker set. You'll be very happy with them.



Finally I setup everything. It took more than a week for speakers and sub to be delivered Just to remind; recently I bought Onkyo 505 receiver + 4 Athena LS-50 bookshelf speakers (front and rear) + Athena LSC-50 center + Athena AS-P4100 sub. I used 2 coaxial to connect my DVD and cable box to the receiver. For speakers I bought 14AWG wire from Monoprice. Total system cost is $610 (including all cables and wires plus delivery). It is a little above my initial budget ($500) but not too much. As a bottom line - I'm very impressed with the system! It's my first home theater but I've heard a couple of systems owned by friends. One of them is Onkyo HTIB and another is Yamaha HTIB (don't know the model numbers). Both don't sound even close to Athenas! And I can tell this even after 2 days of using my system (I've heard Athenas need to be played around 50-100 hours to break in). I just cannot wish anything better (at least now). The sound is crystal clear, I can hear every detail with no distortion even on high volumes (45 level on Onkyo, I'm just afraid to go higher - the sound is too loud and I don't want to disturb my neighbors). By the way, I liked Onkyo's Audyssey 2Q calibration - everything was very easy for such non-experienced user as me. I only changed crossover setting for the sub after running auto-calibration from 40 to 80 (plus I set sub's crossover knob to the max 120). The sub is incredible!!! So much power and so loud! Sub's volume knob has ranges from 1 to 10. At first I set the volume level to 4, but my ears couldn't stand such loud and boomy bass for more than an hour. So I set it to 3 and now I'm happy. Sometimes I even think that may be this sub is a little overkill and 8'' sub would also sound great in my apartments (but I'm not complaining







). Today I tested Transformers movie on my system. The movie itself was very boring but all these scenes with the fighting robots made a very good test for the system. I was really enjoying the sound.


A few more things. The size of speakers is perfect - they fit very well into my apartments. I mounted all 4 LS-50s on the walls, the speakers have an easy-to-use insert on the back for wall mounting. All speakers come with 4 rubber bumpers (except central LSC-50 which has its own stand) that can be used to decouple speaker from the wall (or from the bookshelf/stand). Also I'd like to note that it will be hard to use 12 AWG wire with LS-50 or LSC-50 without banana plugs - the hole for the bare wire connection is not very big and I think 14 AWG wire is the maximum that can fit in.


Finally, I would like to thank everybody who contributed to this thread - without this thread I would buy Onkyo SR800 HTIB and I'm not sure that I would be as happy with it as I am now. Special thanks to Set and Afrogt who helped me to pick the Athenas. I hope you guys who discover this thread will also go with the separate components instead of HTIB - you won't be disappointed.


----------



## aege

I've been reading this thread for the last few days and i must say it has got great deal of information -- thanks everyone. This is my first post here, i hope this thread is still active and that i would get a query answered.


I have recently purchased a Denon 487dv HTIB from circuit City through a friend. This was an open box piece and he got me a very good deal i paid around $280. I just set the system and it sounds awesome. The only problem is that the AV remote was missing in the packing and they wouldn't accept that it was not packed. i'll have to purchase a new remote now, my question is if i should go for a universal or the OE. Is there any advantage to go for a universal remote -- both the OE & universal costs almost the same. Please help.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/12651278
> 
> 
> URC RFS200 PowerPak Bundle w/ MasterControl RF20 and PowerBlaster from Amazon.com
> 
> .





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/12658685
> 
> 
> Harmony makes a couple of decent remotes that you can find online for around $100.



@Set/@afrogt , do you have any experience with the Denons ? will the above mentioned universal remotes be compatible with it?










thanks much for any help


----------



## set2374

aege:


You got a nice deal on the denon. I like the conceptual convenience of a universal remote. I just actually picked up a Harmony 659 from amazon for $44 today--so, I guess I'll let you know how it works. Here's the thing though, on an avr, there are really a huge number of functions that you are going to want to control and no guaranty that the universal remote will be able to handle them all unless you have the factory remote for the universal to "learn" off of. With this understanding, I "think" I recommend getting the factory. Frankly, for the price you paid on the package, another $50 for the remote is still a bargain.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aege* /forum/post/13119915
> 
> 
> I've been reading this thread for the last few days and i must say it has got great deal of information -- thanks everyone. This is my first post here, i hope this thread is still active and that i would get a query answered.
> 
> 
> I have recently purchased a Denon 487dv HTIB from circuit City through a friend. This was an open box piece and he got me a very good deal i paid around $280. I just set the system and it sounds awesome. The only problem is that the AV remote was missing in the packing and they wouldn't accept that it was not packed. i'll have to purchase a new remote now, my question is if i should go for a universal or the OE. Is there any advantage to go for a universal remote -- both the OE & universal costs almost the same. Please help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Set/@afrogt , do you have any experience with the Denons ? will the above mentioned universal remotes be compatible with it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks much for any help




The URC remote isn't going to know every function from the preprogrammed codes to control the Denon. You'd need to the Denon remote so the URC can LEARN some of the extra stuff. So w/o the original remote, the URC is not a good idea. My URC works great with my Onkyo receiver, Oppo DVD, Toshiba HD-DVD, DirecTV Sat box, Sony HDTV and Sony CD changer but I had to teach it some of the functions. You'd be hosed without access to the original remote.


Maybe the Harmony 659 will do the trick for you. And at $44 shipped, its a great price.


----------



## aege

thanks @Set/@afrogt, i don't want to take a chance, sounds like i'm better off going with the factory remote. If you have had an experience with this particular system how did you think it compared with the setup that you guys have recommended.


I'm no audiophile but based on my experience so far I'll recommend the Denon 487dv to anyone who would want a great sounding system and the convenience of the HTiB -- we have read so far in this thread that both don't go hand in hand. I did lot of research before picking this system, almost all reviews that i had read highly recommended this and some even called it as 'Components in the Box'. I read it has a good upgrade potential and it's weakest link is the speaker. I too leave in an apartment and for now it makes enough noise to trouble the neighbors but eventually i would want to upgrade the speakers and i guess I'll use the information on speakers that i got from this thread.


The system currently retails for $499 but keep looking you might get a good deal as i did.


----------



## Chekoman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HunterX82* /forum/post/12230671
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a beginners type surround sound system (5.1 at least). I am in an apartment with people above me, and would like to spend no more than $500. I hear from my friends and reading here that the receiver is the most important. Can I get away with pretty cheap speakers (for now) and buy a 300-400$ receiver? Or should I just get a 5.1 system from costco for 250 and focus on a nice set later?
> 
> 
> I have a Samsung LNT4665F coming to my door sometime next week. I mostly watch TV through my cable HD box...though by spring I want to have my own HTPC together. I will also play games via xbox or pc connection sometimes, too.
> 
> 
> Thanks all!!



Samsung HT-AS720 5.1 expandable to 7.1 I recommend it!


----------



## qbbraveheart

so I finally got all my stuff in...well minus the cables and speaker wire










My setup:


Onkyo 605

x4 Polk R150's

Polk CSR Center

no sub as of yet


I have my front L/R and center placed where I want it to be but im having a hard time deciding on where to put my rear surrounds(im going with a 5.1 setup)


some people say 2-3 feet above ear level...some people say top of wall before ceiling pointed down


so....I come to you....2-3 feet above ear level

OR

up towards ceiling pointed down and inwards?


I only ask this because the bookshelf speakers are somewhat big and 2-3 feet above ear level would be like in my way...im pretty tall...


right know im kinda leaning towards up at the top pointing downwards


that is the question


Thanks very much


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qbbraveheart* /forum/post/13150891
> 
> 
> so I finally got all my stuff in...well minus the cables and speaker wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My setup:
> 
> 
> Onkyo 605
> 
> x4 Polk R150's
> 
> Polk CSR Center
> 
> no sub as of yet
> 
> 
> I have my front L/R and center placed where I want it to be but im having a hard time deciding on where to put my rear surrounds(im going with a 5.1 setup)
> 
> 
> some people say 2-3 feet above ear level...some people say top of wall before ceiling pointed down
> 
> 
> so....I come to you....2-3 feet above ear level
> 
> OR
> 
> up towards ceiling pointed down and inwards?
> 
> 
> I only ask this because the bookshelf speakers are somewhat big and 2-3 feet above ear level would be like in my way...im pretty tall...
> 
> 
> right know im kinda leaning towards up at the top pointing downwards
> 
> 
> that is the question
> 
> 
> Thanks very much



There are a number of different placement arrangements for rear surrounds in a 5.1. Slightly above ear level is usually the recommended advice for fronts (in a sat or bookshelf setup). I have had my rears on end tables at one point and later wall mounted (high on the wall) and at a 45 degree angle to the main seating position. I was quite happy with this set up before going to 7.1 (and in hind-sight i prefer the 5.1 caddy-corned set up to the 7.1 set up I have now). You may need to experiment a little to find which set up you prefer. Room accoustics play a big role in how everything will sound and it's pretty hard to give advice and opinions that make sense over a forum without seeing the room.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13124591
> 
> 
> The URC remote isn't going to know every function from the preprogrammed codes to control the Denon. You'd need to the Denon remote so the URC can LEARN some of the extra stuff. So w/o the original remote, the URC is not a good idea. My URC works great with my Onkyo receiver, Oppo DVD, Toshiba HD-DVD, DirecTV Sat box, Sony HDTV and Sony CD changer but I had to teach it some of the functions. You'd be hosed without access to the original remote.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Harmony 659 will do the trick for you. And at $44 shipped, its a great price.



You're right Afrogt. I am going to be testing this theory out though this week. Ironically, one of my dogs ate the remote to my receiver on Saturday (there was literally nothing left of it but tiny pieces of plastic and the circuitboard). I am going to try to hook up the harmony without buying a $35 replacement remote. If that doesn't work... this may be the excuse I need to get my wife to let my buy a new AVR for the bedroom. LOL. I "forgot" to mention to my wife the possibility of buying a replacement OEM remote.


She also ate the remote for my new 4way hdmi switcher that I just bought from monoprice for a bargain ($39). Get this though, I called up Monoprice and told them what happened. They are sending me a new remote for free!!! I buy all my wires and cables from them and they are absolutely the best company to deal with.


As another aside, I found a pretty good deal online for a Marantz 4001 and Onkyo 604 (both around ~$250) and they both can pass multi-channel LPCM audio via hdmi (no internal decoding though of new hd audio formats). Afrogt, any thoughts on the Marantz??? My dad had one years ago when it was still owned by fisher and it's always been considered a higher end brand (equivalent to HK). I have had no recent experience to draw on though.


----------



## qbbraveheart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/13155981
> 
> 
> There are a number of different placement arrangements for rear surrounds in a 5.1. Slightly above ear level is usually the recommended advice for fronts (in a sat or bookshelf setup). I have had my rears on end tables at one point and later wall mounted (high on the wall) and at a 45 degree angle to the main seating position. I was quite happy with this set up before going to 7.1 (and in hind-sight i prefer the 5.1 caddy-corned set up to the 7.1 set up I have now). You may need to experiment a little to find which set up you prefer. Room accoustics play a big role in how everything will sound and it's pretty hard to give advice and opinions that make sense over a forum without seeing the room.



thanks for the input


while I was waiting for someone to respond I was doing some research on here so I decided Ill try 2-3 feet(maybe 4)above ear level mounted on the rear wall


I was concerned about height because my couch is right up against the wall the rear surrounds are going to be placed


now I just have to order some mounts for the rears so in the mean time Ill try them on my end tables...just a temp thing


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> As another aside, I found a pretty good deal online for a Marantz 4001 and Onkyo 604 (both around ~$250) and they both can pass multi-channel LPCM audio via hdmi (no internal decoding though of new hd audio formats). Afrogt, any thoughts on the Marantz??? My dad had one years ago when it was still owned by fisher and it's always been considered a higher end brand (equivalent to HK). I have had no recent experience to draw on though



The pretty much have the same funcionality but the Marantz will be the better sounding of the two. Neither one will convert other inputs to HDMI so if all your devices are HDMI, you'll be fine. Otherwise you'll have to run extra cables to your TV. Also On Screen Display doesn't work via HDMI but that isn't a big deal once you have everything set up.


All things being equal, I'd get the Marantz.


----------



## DeadPixelBuddy

Anyone have any experience with the JBL Venue line (Voice, Arena, etc)? They seem like good alternatives to the Athenas/Polks in case someone wanted another option. I have been debating picking these up as a second setup...and the speakers do look quite nice (Decent WAF).


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afrogt* /forum/post/13158557
> 
> 
> The pretty much have the same funcionality but the Marantz will be the better sounding of the two. Neither one will convert other inputs to HDMI so if all your devices are HDMI, you'll be fine. Otherwise you'll have to run extra cables to your TV. Also On Screen Display doesn't work via HDMI but that isn't a big deal once you have everything set up.
> 
> 
> All things being equal, I'd get the Marantz.



Thanks for the tip afrogt. That's my guess as well. Well, there's been a change of circumstances though. My Harmony 659s (two of them) arrived yesterday. It took me about 1.5 hours to get the both programmed and they are running both systems flawlessly. I am super impressed with this remote. It controlled the switching on my monoprice hdmi switcher and totally controls my 8 year old jvc receiver in the bedroom without having to use any of the learning functions. I can't get over how good this thing is. For $44 (refurbished and available on amazon with free shipping) bucks I have give it a solid recommendation. On the down side, I have no real excuse now to buy a new avr. Frankly, I am probably better off waiting until the next generation of Onkyo's come out and I can then pick up Onkyo 605 for under $300. Who knows when that will be, but as long as my receiver is working and the remote is handling all of the switching with ease (and I am not spending $350 on another blu-ray any time soon)--I can wait.










If some one is in the market for a good receiver though, the refurbished receivers available at accessories4less.com are really a good deal (much better pricing than shoponkyo). This internet vendor is an authorized vendor for onkyo and marantz and the warranties are good. I was, at one point, anti-refurb but I have since reassessed my position and think they really do offer a good value. I know a couple of people that bought refurbed onkyo 505's for around $179 and they have not had any issues at all. If you can pick up a 505 for under $200, why not get that instead of a new 304 or pioneer 517???


There's another readily available good buy out there today. Costco is running a special on a Klipsh 10" sub for $150 ($200 with a $50 off coupon good for the rest of the week). I haven't heard the sub yet, but since costco has a great return policy, I can't see any downside to giving it a try.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadPixelBuddy* /forum/post/13167703
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with the JBL Venue line (Voice, Arena, etc)? They seem like good alternatives to the Athenas/Polks in case someone wanted another option. I have been debating picking these up as a second setup...and the speakers do look quite nice (Decent WAF).



They are good (not audiophile grade)... equivalent to R and Monitor series. You may want to post onto the speaker thread where you'll get more responses.


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> If some one is in the market for a good receiver though, the refurbished receivers available at accessories4less.com are really a good deal (much better pricing than shoponkyo). This internet vendor is an authorized vendor for onkyo and marantz and the warranties are good. I was, at one point, anti-refurb but I have since reassessed my position and think they really do offer a good value. I know a couple of people that bought refurbed onkyo 505's for around $179 and they have not had any issues at all. If you can pick up a 505 for under $200, why not get that instead of a new 304 or pioneer 517???



I don't know if the Onkyo prices are necessarily better than on shoponkyo.com. At ac4less you have to pay shipping which can be rather large on some items. Plus shoponkyo.com has 10% off at times plus the Club Onkyo deals.


Accessories 4 less may have a wider selection though.


----------



## set2374

That's a good point about the shipping. It's about $22 to ship from accessories4less.com. However, a4l has a larger selection and I think you can find some good values by purchasing last generation equipment (the 604 as opposed to the 605). You need to do your homework, but in many cases you'll find that the "older" equipment has only been improved slightly for the next generation. For example, I have found my pioneer tsx-1016 discounted online for $250 (I paid $400 for it). That's a great price IMO. I don't think the improvements on the 1017 were significant over the 1016. Pioneer boasts that the 1017 offers some improvement to the MCACC system and 10 extra watts per channel. On further review by Sound and Design magazine, it looks like they just accepted a slightly higher distortion rate to squeeze an extra 10 watts per channel on a spec sheet. That's an old industry trick and I think they basically tweaked just enough to put a new number on it to improve sales. It's still the lowest price THX Select 2 certified receiver on the market and at $250 you really can't go wrong with a 1016.


----------



## samsurd2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/13178544
> 
> 
> However, a4l has a larger selection and I think you can find some good values by purchasing last generation equipment (the 604 as opposed to the 605)



FWIW...Just for grins I took a look at accessories4less.com to see what AVRs are being offered. There's nothing there except Onkyo and Marantz. What's with that?? Do they actually carry any other brands on a regular basis??


----------



## afrogt

They're authorized factory refurb dealers for Onkyo and Marantz so that's what they carry. They do get some new units from those two companies also.


----------



## qbbraveheart

ok so I got my system all set up


quick question...


I have my HD-DVD player and Im watching Transformers(standard DVD)

I know this has Dolby Digital...but when I press display to see what audio format its in it says PCM


shouldnt it be Dolby Digital?

do I have to change something in the HD-DVD player settings?


TIA


----------



## qbbraveheart

nevermind, got it sorted out


----------



## qbbraveheart

so whats a good sub to go with my setup:


Onkyo 605

x4 Polk R150's

Polk CSR Center


I was looking at a Dayton SUB10

probally might end up with that


open to suggestions

and under $200 lol


Thanks for the help


----------



## samsurd2

Velodyne VX-10

AV123 X-Sub


----------



## set2374

I really try hard on this thread to give the best advice I can. For many people on here, this is their first real HT purchase and they are hoping that some one with more experience will be able to show them the way. I am going to digress for a moment to make a suggestion or two about how a beginner can get the to get the most from this site and their home audio experience.


There are lots of different tastes in sound (no surprise there) and also people that are true audiophiles with a very keen ear. They are the audio equivalent to the people that can discern the light apple taste with a hint of apricot in their wine. This is a teeny tiny group and the truth is most of the people that think they are well polished audiophiles are full of BS.


I grew up with a true audiophile. My dad is blind and has a hightened sensitivity to sound and my grandfather was a concert violinist (although my dad doesn't play any instruments, he inherited my grandfather's ear for music). My dad is one of those few people that can actually hear the "air" between the strings. It's not that he has super hearing or anything of the sort, just good hearing and extra-heightened sensitivity to sound. He's able to listen to a symphony and focus in on one particular instrument in the orchestra. Really high end audio equipment can "sometimes" make a meaningful difference in his enjoyment of the listening experience. When we are hanging out together, he forces me to mess around with all of my settings because he hates the way I listen to music (apparently, my set up is entirely wrong--in his "expert" opinion). My dad can't stand my Dayton Sub-120 for music and thinks it muddies up all the instruments and is only "tolerable" barely audible volumes. To my ears, with the sub that low--why bother with a sub at all. On the other hand, he really likes my av123 x-sub and thinks it's a bargain for $220 bucks shipped. He says it has nice extension and tight base. Now, the av123 is an 8" sub and even in my small bedroom it's not to shaking the walls and I am not feeling any waves or sound or anything of the sort. If you're a bass freak and listen to rap/hip hop/heavy metal and want to get blown away by explosions using an HT, it's not going to be for you. If you enjoy classical music, jazz and music with nuanced sounds, you might appreciate that it's a quality small sub for a reasonable price. Also, my dad listens to 90% music--so giving great HT experience is not really part of his criteria. I am the opposite 80% ht/20% music.


Now, the rest of us (my dad excluded) are probably NOT audiophiles and have different expectations of what sounds good. You may (like me) want some "wow" factor to our theater experience. When there is an explosion or crash in a movie (Live Free or Die Hard scene in the tunnel), I want to feel the impact in my stomach. If you fall into this category (like me), you're probably not going to love the av123. I really want to like the av123 (my dad liked the velo vx-10 (which I used to own) too---not as much as the av123). If you're looking for the feel it down your spine experience and are on a budget, the Dayton Sub-120 is a terrific sub for the money for getting the wow effect (especially if you're room is under 1800 cubic feet). The Bic h-100 is even better. The sub-100 is suppose to be a bit tighter than the 120, with a bit less wow to it. What some people do to increase the wow and maintain the tightness is add a second sub-100 to the system. For most of us out there, you're going to be very happy with the dayton subs 100/120. The longer I have it, the more I grow to appreciate it for what it is--an inexpensive sub that can give you the wow factor in a smaller room.


I have listened to lots of really expensive equipment--equipment by companies none of you have probably heard of,powered by separate tube amps that cost more than year in college tuition. Sure it sounds good---better than the stuff I have (my polk 70's are considered low end or entry level by many so-called audiophiles), but not so much that most of you reading this would think is terribly noticeable. These systems send my dad to the hights of ecstacy (in some cases--he'll also be the first to tell you some those speakers are $10,000 piles of crap). To me what differences I hear aren't all that significant to my listening experience.


So, the moral of this story is that before you take any of my advice (or the advice of anyone else on these forums--including people that are true audiophiles and know their equipment), give some real thought as to what kind of listener you are and what your taste is.


----------



## facesnorth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/13168215
> 
> 
> On the down side, I have no real excuse now to buy a new avr. Frankly, I am probably better off waiting until the next generation of Onkyo's come out and I can then pick up Onkyo 605 for under $300. Who knows when that will be, but as long as my receiver is working and the remote is handling all of the switching with ease (and I am not spending $350 on another blu-ray any time soon)--I can wait.



Personally I think the Marantz 4001 from a4l is a better quality and sounding AVR than the Onkyo 605. I've recommended this to friends & helped them set it up & not only does it sound great, but I think it would be more reliable and less buggy than the 605 as well.


Internal decoding of the newer formats is irrelevant for the most part, with new BD players like the Panasonic BD-50 coming out that will do the decoding themselves. The only reason you might care about internal decoding is that it gives you more options for BD players now, and possibly slightly cheaper ones.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *facesnorth* /forum/post/13198193
> 
> 
> Personally I think the Marantz 4001 from a4l is a better quality and sounding AVR than the Onkyo 605. I've recommended this to friends & helped them set it up & not only does it sound great, but I think it would be more reliable and less buggy than the 605 as well.
> 
> 
> Internal decoding of the newer formats is irrelevant for the most part, with new BD players like the Panasonic BD-50 coming out that will do the decoding themselves. The only reason you might care about internal decoding is that it gives you more options for BD players now, and possibly slightly cheaper ones.



I am not sure I agree with you entirely (I say not sure, because there are a lot of variables--which is the problem with BD and why I prefered the HD DVD format (I own both so I came into HDM with an objective view)). All things being equal, for a few extra bucks (not $150 though), I would prefer an avr that decodes the hi-def formats internally. Because of the lack of uniformity in the profiles (including profile 2.0) for internal codecs on BD players, you really have to do a little homework before you buy a bd player. Unlike hd-dvd where all players were required to handle trueHD and DDplus internally, there is no such requirement on BD. If you have an avr that can't handle the new codecs and buy a BD player like the Sony BDP-300 or Panny DMP-BD30, you aren't going to be able to take advantage of the lossless sound (with the exception of LPCM 48k tracks). The specs are not out yet on the Panny DMP-BD50, but I expect (like the DMP-BD10A that it is replacing) it will handle EVERYTHING including DTS-HD MA internally and also be able to send everything out in bitstream. However, it's probably going to be among the more expensive BD players on the market (at least $100 more than the BD30). It may be the case that you're better off getting spending a few more bucks on your avr to save more money on the BD player. I think this will be more relevant though next year when avrs with the codecs are more prevelant in the low to mid-end receivers.


----------



## qbbraveheart

yea i think im going to go with the Dayton Sub-120


thanks guys


----------



## robotcan

Hey, I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their advice. It's my first time putting together a HT, so I don't really have much experience. I went with Athena LS-50 satellites, LS-C50 centre and a Harmon Kardon 147 receiver. Still looking for a sub. I have my eye set on a Velodyne VX-10, but so far, it's been a little hard to find for a decent price up here in Canada - around $300, which is almost double what you guys pay in the States.


Once again, many thanks. This thread has been a great help.


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robotcan* /forum/post/13205528
> 
> 
> Hey, I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their advice. It's my first time putting together a HT, so I don't really have much experience. I went with Athena LS-50 satellites, LS-C50 centre and a Harmon Kardon 147 receiver. Still looking for a sub. I have my eye set on a Velodyne VX-10, but so far, it's been a little hard to find for a decent price up here in Canada - around $300, which is almost double what you guys pay in the States.
> 
> 
> Once again, many thanks. This thread has been a great help.



You may want to check out the Fluance DB-150. I have never heard one, but it did get decent reviews in CNET. I mention this only because I know that it is manufactured in Canada and may be more reasonable in price for you. Fluance has gotten pretty decent reviews overall. I would NOT spend $300 CD on a Velo VX-10. $150 max. You can also check out the Bic H-100.


----------



## phorts




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robotcan* /forum/post/13205528
> 
> 
> Hey, I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their advice. It's my first time putting together a HT, so I don't really have much experience. I went with Athena LS-50 satellites, LS-C50 centre and a Harmon Kardon 147 receiver. Still looking for a sub. I have my eye set on a Velodyne VX-10, but so far, it's been a little hard to find for a decent price up here in Canada - around $300, which is almost double what you guys pay in the States.
> 
> 
> Once again, many thanks. This thread has been a great help.



Hey man, congrats on your new setup. I just purchased the Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver and am looking for a speaker setup. I havent yet considered Athena so I was wondering how you're loking your new setup?


Do you have a 5.1 setup w/ 4 LS-50 satellites or a 2.1 setup w/ 2?


How do you like the sound quality of the setup?


Cool man....good luck!


----------



## qbbraveheart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phorts* /forum/post/13228485
> 
> 
> Hey man, congrats on your new setup. I just purchased the Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver and am looking for a speaker setup. I havent yet considered Athena so I was wondering how you're loking your new setup?
> 
> 
> Do you have a 5.1 setup w/ 4 LS-50 satellites or a 2.1 setup w/ 2?
> 
> 
> How do you like the sound quality of the setup?
> 
> 
> Cool man....good luck!



I have the 605 as well paired up with 4 Polk R-150's and a CSR Center and Im loving it


after setup....they were dead on and they sound great..well to my audio noob ears anyway


saving up for a sub...cant wait


----------



## phorts

I'd love to get Polk, but the matching Center is over 6" tall...in fact, all polk Centers are over 6" tall except for the RM8C. But that goes along with the small RM8 satellites. I want to get bigger speakers for a bit bigger sound than those provide..plus, they're $250/pair as opposed to the $50/pair for the $150's.. even the Monitor 30's I want are only $130/pair or so...


sucks!


I have to have a center shorter than 6" because it has to go in front of my TV (5080HD) and any taller and it would be blocking a portion of the display...which aint coo..


ugh.


----------



## robotcan

set2375, thanks for the tip about Fluance. I've never heard of them until now. Will definitely check them out the next time I'm at the store.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phorts* /forum/post/13228485
> 
> 
> Do you have a 5.1 setup w/ 4 LS-50 satellites or a 2.1 setup w/ 2?
> 
> 
> How do you like the sound quality of the setup?



I have a 5.1 setup with 4 LS-50s. At the moment, without a sub, I would say the whole systems sounds a bit sharp. Not harsh, mind you. Bright might be a better word to describe it. Once I add a sub, the sound should round out. Overall, my noob ears are enjoying it very much.


----------



## set2374

Robo, you're going to have check it out online. Fluance is strictly an online vendor. I wouldn't let that concern you. Check out the reviews on it. Do a google. Many online vendors offer some great products: SVS, AV123, HSU Research---excellent stuff and good values (although none of the afformentioned subs will fall in your price range). Fluance will though.


----------



## John_McClane

I just bought a 42" LG... I am looking to hook it up... I wanted to roll with a HTIB set up, but it appears that after looking through this thread, and especially after reading some of set2374's posts... I should just assemble a HT myself...


...I purchased those Polk R150's when I picked up my TV last week. Now, I am sorta stuck. I have a ratty old Sony receiver that I am using... I am not happy with it at all. I have been looking through this stuff for about 3-4 weeks now and I just cant seem to settle on anything, and every day, I change my mind. I am going to be using this system for 40% gaming (xbox360) 40% music 20% movies/TV....


I want to use those r150's as my fronts... My next move needs to be another receiver... I want to initially be 5.1 however, not really sure that I want to terminate the thought of 7.1... From everything I understand, most things do not use 7.1... So, I am thinking I would like to just get a solid 5.1 receiver.


Today, I am leaning towards a HK AVR-146...amazon has a refurb for $176... I have been trying to find out why the 147 is so much more, but really have not seen any reason to justify the extra 70-100 bucks for it... Also, the Pioneer 517 and Onkyo 505 were other options... I do not really need the HDMI passthrough since my TV has 3 inputs already... yet, I am a little confused at what the "HDMI switching" means and how it would benefit me?


We have a lot of parties at my place, so something that can run for a while, and has good clean sound would probably be the #1 priority.


I plan on getting an upconverting DIVX player since the blu-ray players are priced through the roof...


I will be going with a Dayton 10" sub and the Polk center speaker... For my rear speakers... I am a little unsure of what I will go with... some options would be great...


...my budget for this is around 250... could go up to 300 if it was well worth it... could also really stretch if needed to maybe 400. However, I would really like to stay around/under 250....


Not sure how many people are like me, but sometimes I just need someone to tell me... GO WITH THIS... it seems like I overthink this stuff too much then just get cross-eyed and confused lol...


----------



## set2374




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John_McClane* /forum/post/13272937
> 
> 
> I just bought a 42" LG... I am looking to hook it up... I wanted to roll with a HTIB set up, but it appears that after looking through this thread, and especially after reading some of set2374's posts... I should just assemble a HT myself...
> 
> 
> ...I purchased those Polk R150's when I picked up my TV last week. Now, I am sorta stuck. I have a ratty old Sony receiver that I am using... I am not happy with it at all. I have been looking through this stuff for about 3-4 weeks now and I just cant seem to settle on anything, and every day, I change my mind. I am going to be using this system for 40% gaming (xbox360) 40% music 20% movies/TV....
> 
> 
> I want to use those r150's as my fronts... My next move needs to be another receiver... I want to initially be 5.1 however, not really sure that I want to terminate the thought of 7.1... From everything I understand, most things do not use 7.1... So, I am thinking I would like to just get a solid 5.1 receiver.
> 
> 
> Today, I am leaning towards a HK AVR-146...amazon has a refurb for $176... I have been trying to find out why the 147 is so much more, but really have not seen any reason to justify the extra 70-100 bucks for it... Also, the Pioneer 517 and Onkyo 505 were other options... I do not really need the HDMI passthrough since my TV has 3 inputs already... yet, I am a little confused at what the "HDMI switching" means and how it would benefit me?
> 
> 
> We have a lot of parties at my place, so something that can run for a while, and has good clean sound would probably be the #1 priority.
> 
> 
> I plan on getting an upconverting DIVX player since the blu-ray players are priced through the roof...
> 
> 
> I will be going with a Dayton 10" sub and the Polk center speaker... For my rear speakers... I am a little unsure of what I will go with... some options would be great...
> 
> 
> ...my budget for this is around 250... could go up to 300 if it was well worth it... could also really stretch if needed to maybe 400. However, I would really like to stay around/under 250....
> 
> 
> Not sure how many people are like me, but sometimes I just need someone to tell me... GO WITH THIS... it seems like I overthink this stuff too much then just get cross-eyed and confused lol...



To my Die Hard friend:



I would suggest getting a second pair of R150's for the rear and the CSR for the center. This will set you back $129 at outpost.com. That's a fair deal IMO. As for receiver, the difference between the 146 and 147 is that the 147 has hdmi (i am not sure if it's pass through or can handle sound processing). Both are 5.1 receivers and I believe the 147 is a little less powerful. Both are good receivers, buty you can also do pretty well going over to accessories4less.com and picking up an Onkyo or Marantz receiver. I like the Onkyo 604 for $250. It is a really nice 7.1 setup, with audessy and it can handle 5.1 LPCM over HDMI--which is really nice (I am not sure if can handle 7.1 LPCM--but it probably can). For $250, that's a nice deal. If you want to save some money, you can pick up refurb Onkyo 505 for $159. that's dirt cheap. it's a really nice receiver, but it lacks the HDMI switching, which is a nice feature. For $159, it's also a no brainer. I would personally go with the refurb 505 over the H/K 146. The 146 probably has slightly better SQ, but I think the better feature set on the onkyo outweighs the SQ difference. You'll be happy with this set up. The Dayton Sub-100 will suit you just fine in a smaller-mid size room.


----------



## qbbraveheart

I have 4 R150's and a CSR center hooked up to a Onkyo 605 and I absolutely love it

good crisp clean sound...I just need a sub now


definitely recommend the polks


----------



## keebs1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *set2374* /forum/post/13301649
> 
> 
> To my Die Hard friend:
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest getting a second pair of R150's for the rear and the CSR for the center. This will set you back $129 at outpost.com. That's a fair deal IMO. As for receiver, the difference between the 146 and 147 is that the 147 has hdmi (i am not sure if it's pass through or can handle sound processing). Both are 5.1 receivers and I believe the 147 is a little less powerful. Both are good receivers, buty you can also do pretty well going over to accessories4less.com and picking up an Onkyo or Marantz receiver. I like the Onkyo 604 for $250. It is a really nice 7.1 setup, with audessy and it can handle 5.1 LPCM over HDMI--which is really nice (I am not sure if can handle 7.1 LPCM--but it probably can). For $250, that's a nice deal. If you want to save some money, you can pick up refurb Onkyo 505 for $159. that's dirt cheap. it's a really nice receiver, but it lacks the HDMI switching, which is a nice feature. For $159, it's also a no brainer. I would personally go with the refurb 505 over the H/K 146. The 146 probably has slightly better SQ, but I think the better feature set on the onkyo outweighs the SQ difference. You'll be happy with this set up. The Dayton Sub-100 will suit you just fine in a smaller-mid size room.



The 146 and 147 are identical as far as HDMI. They both just do pass-thru. The 147 has a bit more power, not less.


----------



## eury13

I just wanted to chime in with a big thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. There's a wealth of information here!










I'm moving into a new condo in the coming weeks and will take that time to figure out which setup is best for my needs. Once I get everything purchased and set up I'll let you all know how it works out! Regardless of which details I go with, I think it'll be an improvement over the Samsung HT-X70 I was eyeing last week...


----------



## Brain72tamu

I've skimmed through this thread and there was a lot of great information. I am totally clue less when it comes to audio. I'm looking to put together a decent sound system for my apartment. What can I put together with a 700-800 dollar budget?? It would be mainly for home theater and gaming (360 and PS3).


----------



## randm

Just a heads up....The Pioneer HTS-GS1 "Xbox" system is on ebay for about 50 bucks now and is a really good option for apartment use and gaming.


----------



## eury13

Okay, so has anyone here had any experience with the HK HKTS 11 speaker set? They sometimes pop up on HK's eBay store and end up going for ~$150. How might these compare to the Dayton HT1200s + Sub?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## afrogt

I'm sure it'll be better than the Dayton setup. For $150 that's no brainer. The newer dayton sub isn't as good as the previous models from a couple years ago.


Here are some reviews of the HKTS 11 from newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882121041


----------



## Brain72tamu

Anybody have any input/experience with the Yamaha RX-V461BL (500W 5.1)? It has some decent reviews.

The lack of hdmi is not an issue as my tv lacks it.


----------



## Quantum15

This forum helps a lot for the unexperienced one like me in terms of entry level home theater build up. Thanks to all the contributors. I am planning to build a budget home theater system and I found this $200 Harman kardon avr 145 (no HDMI) at COSTCO. Anybody have an experience/knowledge of this AVR?


----------



## qbbraveheart

im about to add the R50's(in black if I can ever find them) to my 4 Polk R150's and go 7.1










ahhhh the addiction has started

blah


----------



## keebs1973

I hope set2374 and afrogt are still looking at this thread. My Dad just got a very nice new Samsung LNT4081F with the LED backlight and with it he impulsed the Bose Cinemate 2.1 speaker system in order to improve the audio quality over what the TV speakers provide. The Cinemate is a powered speaker system that plugs right into the TV and therefore doesn't need a receiver to drive it. He didn't want to bother with the complication of a 5.1 system and for him I think the simplicity of this setup is a good decision. But, the Bose Cinemate cost him $400 at one of the large retail stores, and after looking at some reviews, the satellites seem very good but the subwoofer is lacking.


Can anyone suggest a better and cheaper 2.1 powered speaker system for him?


----------



## nm3th

Sony has a 3.1 system (HT-CT100) with a powered sub, 3 hdmi in for about $300 shipped. Check out this link for a discussion.


Everyone who has picked one up have been happy with the system.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/13741234
> 
> 
> I hope set2374 and afrogt are still looking at this thread. My Dad just got a very nice new Samsung LNT4081F with the LED backlight and with it he impulsed the Bose Cinemate 2.1 speaker system in order to improve the audio quality over what the TV speakers provide. The Cinemate is a powered speaker system that plugs right into the TV and therefore doesn't need a receiver to drive it. He didn't want to bother with the complication of a 5.1 system and for him I think the simplicity of this setup is a good decision. But, the Bose Cinemate cost him $400 at one of the large retail stores, and after looking at some reviews, the satellites seem very good but the subwoofer is lacking.
> 
> 
> Can anyone suggest a better and cheaper 2.1 powered speaker system for him?


----------



## keebs1973

Interesting. Thanks nm3th! I skimmed through the 7 pages or so. This is a new product so there's not a lot of reviews on it yet. It seems like most give it a thumbs up, although some mentioned that it was not so great when it comes to listening to music. I guess my Dad will be using this mostly to listen to movies and TV programming, but it makes me wonder about the quality of the audio experience if music doesn't sound too great on it. Granted, it sounds better than the TV speakers, but can we do better?


----------



## nm3th

The comments that you were referring to mainly pertains to the fact that if you're in another area not directly in front of the speakers, then the sound won't be as "full." I don't have firsthand account on the matter of listening to music alone, but watching movies and TV, the system packs a punch in my apartment.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebs1973* /forum/post/13742530
> 
> 
> Interesting. Thanks nm3th! I skimmed through the 7 pages or so. This is a new product so there's not a lot of reviews on it yet. It seems like most give it a thumbs up, although some mentioned that it was not so great when it comes to listening to music. I guess my Dad will be using this mostly to listen to movies and TV programming, but it makes me wonder about the quality of the audio experience if music doesn't sound too great on it. Granted, it sounds better than the TV speakers, but can we do better?


----------



## set2374

Keebs, I got your PM and I checked your question. I am not a fan of 2.1 systems at all. If you're going to go that route, I would probably get a decent receiver... probably something like and refurb Onkyo 505 for like $120 bucks and if he wants small satellites, pick up a pair of RM6880 and a decent 10" sub (Velo vx-10 for around $150). The onkyo has nice sound quality and can be run in a simulated surround mode. Philips and JVC make a couple of dedicated 2.1 systems which are ok, certainly just as good as the Bose, but cost about $250-300. I never really researched because this isn't something I would be interested in, but it's an option....


Another alernative.. perhaps a better one... onkyo 505 and a Dayton LCR soundbar, which has the left center and right speakers integrated in one unit. I have never heard one, but parts express advertises that it was designed and licensed by Dr. Hso of Hsu research. Dr. Hsu is an audio genius and his name isn't being attached to a product unless it's halfway decent. I think it's under $200 bucks and its in a piano black finish. Going this route also gives your dad the option of adding a couple of rear satellites in the back and hooking them up wirelessly to the receiver using a rocketfish.


Anyway, those are a few thoughts for you. I hope it helps. Any way you cut, you're under the bose budget and will get better performance than a crappy 3-2-1 system.


----------



## bacardi 151

Just wanted to add. The dayton sub is approx $200 shipped. I personally bought the dayton and a set of fluance 5.1 at $260 shipped. I just recently bought a 7.1 receiver and am awaiting shipment. I will add another pair of fluances bookshelves (another $100 shipped). I am very happy with the fluances/dayton, considering the currently receiver it's on, doesn't have an auto-calibrator for the speakers. The new 7.1 does have calibrator, I really look foward hearing them properly setup.


----------



## homerunkevin

Set, Thank you for the wondering info. I am planning to mix Dayton 1200s with R50s for front. HOw do you think that would sound or will it match well? Do you think I need to get the CSI or CSR? thanks for your input


----------



## qbbraveheart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *homerunkevin* /forum/post/13841583
> 
> 
> Set, Thank you for the wondering info. I am planning to mix Dayton 1200s with R50s for front. HOw do you think that would sound or will it match well? Do you think I need to get the CSI or CSR? thanks for your input



r50's are great budget floorstanders and have gotten great reviews..will go well with a sub of course...ive been looking for the black r50's on frys website but they only have the cherry....I might have to give them a buzz


also go with the CSR center...I have it and its pretty good...Im a noob to this and this is my first system and im pretty pleased with what I have










I have 4 r150's, CSR center and Onkyo 605 receiver...looking to mate them all together with a BIC H-100 12'' sub pretty soon


----------



## metal83

Hey guys, would an Expensive receiver, as in the Denon 3808 or the Yamaha 1800 be overkill for a pair of Polk RM6880 sats?


----------



## LBFilmGuy

Hey folks...I am considering the HTIB Panasonic PT760...especially because of the price and the fact that it does wireless rear sats. How much would running wireless rears like this cost if I got everything seperate like suggested here?


I have a 42" Panasonic plasma along with a PS3 via HDMI as of now.


Thanks


----------



## homerunkevin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qbbraveheart* /forum/post/13842032
> 
> 
> r50's are great budget floorstanders and have gotten great reviews..will go well with a sub of course...ive been looking for the black r50's on frys website but they only have the cherry....I might have to give them a buzz
> 
> 
> also go with the CSR center...I have it and its pretty good...Im a noob to this and this is my first system and im pretty pleased with what I have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have 4 r150's, CSR center and Onkyo 605 receiver...looking to mate them all together with a BIC H-100 12'' sub pretty soon




I am planning to get the R50 cherry and drive down to SJ for in store pickup. I saw this other add on Athena c.5 center speaker for only $50 and free shipping from Vanns. I was wondering will that be a good match or not? The CSR is $100. Is that worth it? I plan on mixing it with Dayton 12" sub. How is your R150 holding up? If this is nice, I maybe planning on getting a pair for the rear. Now I'm thinking of what receiver to get?

50% movie 40% music 10% games.


Thanks


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *homerunkevin* /forum/post/13849625
> 
> 
> I am planning to get the R50 cherry and drive down to SJ for in store pickup. I saw this other add on Athena c.5 center speaker for only $50 and free shipping from Vanns. I was wondering will that be a good match or not? The CSR is $100. Is that worth it? I plan on mixing it with Dayton 12" sub. How is your R150 holding up? If this is nice, I maybe planning on getting a pair for the rear. Now I'm thinking of what receiver to get?
> 
> 50% movie 40% music 10% games.
> 
> 
> Thanks



If you're going with the R50s as fronts then go with the CSR center. The Athena C.5 has a different tweeter and sound characteristics, not a good match with the Polks.


The R150s would be fine for the rear, unless you plan on using the system for multichannel music the R50s would be overkill for the rears imo.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *metal83* /forum/post/13842892
> 
> 
> Hey guys, would an Expensive receiver, as in the Denon 3808 or the Yamaha 1800 be overkill for a pair of Polk RM6880 sats?



YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, in every since of the word YESSSSSSSSSS.


Going with the 3808 with those speakers will give nothing more than a minimal increase in SQ if any. Unless you've got the budget for the 3808 and a speaker upgrade I would highly suggest going with one of the


----------



## homerunkevin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13850190
> 
> 
> If you're going with the R50s as fronts then go with the CSR center. The Athena C.5 has a different tweeter and sound characteristics, not a good match with the Polks.
> 
> 
> The R150s would be fine for the rear, unless you plan on using the system for multichannel music the R50s would be overkill for the rears imo.



Here my plan for the

Bed Room

Front/Center/Rear Dayton 1200s Satelite -$100

Sub- uknoown

Receiver - Denon 1802



Living Room

Front - R50 Fry for = $120

Sub Dayton 12" sub = $150

Center - Polk Audio CSR = $ 100

Rear - Book Shelf Polk Audio

Receiver - Onkyo or HK = $150 max


Altogether spending will $570 or ~ $600

what u think?


----------



## NeoTek

So I have been reading up on this thread quite a bit. I need help making a decision on speakers for my onkyo htr510. I want to stick with sub $300.00 so I have 2 choices from the information that I have gathered here.


Dayton HT-1200 and the Dayton 10 or 12 in sub

or

The Polk Audio RM6750 setup.


Which one would be better as the price is right around the same. I am looking for a small speaker setup. Also anyone know much about these I heard they sound really good but not sure about a HT setup.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=309-408 Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## qbbraveheart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *homerunkevin* /forum/post/13849625
> 
> 
> I am planning to get the R50 cherry and drive down to SJ for in store pickup. I saw this other add on Athena c.5 center speaker for only $50 and free shipping from Vanns. I was wondering will that be a good match or not? The CSR is $100. Is that worth it? I plan on mixing it with Dayton 12" sub. How is your R150 holding up? If this is nice, I maybe planning on getting a pair for the rear. Now I'm thinking of what receiver to get?
> 
> 50% movie 40% music 10% games.
> 
> 
> Thanks



R150's are doing great


average viewing volume level is at 50-55 and not loud or too low at all


I crank them up to about 70-75 for movie viewing and at the moment since I do not have a sub I have the bass cranked up a bit on the front L/R


I am very happy with my purchase


----------



## homerunkevin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spelly88* /forum/post/12836222
> 
> 
> I just purchased pretty much the exact same configuration as you did. My only difference is I wound up buying the HK AVR-147 instead of the 146. I thought about not getting a sub at all, but guys here convinced me I should get one so I went with the Dayton 10". My stuff will probably arrive early next week, so I'll keep you posted on if my sub gives off the "thud" noise as well...



How was your setup? how did you like the 1200s? I was planning on getting either the Dayton 10 or 12 inch sub. Thanks


----------



## almach1

My current setup: Audio came in just a tad over $500 total


Onkyo.TX-SR505,Klipsch Quintet 2 (5speakers), BostonXB4 10"sub

*my eventual upgrade path:*

add on: BIC Acoustech HT-75 Tower Spakers - 1 Pair $279.00 (Pair)

add on: BIC Acoustech HT-65 Center Speaker $139.00 (each)

Move my current front Klipsch sattlites as rear-back for 7.1

Sell/put in closet - my Klipsch center channel


If i had the money and desire to do this all up front, i'd get this full speaker set:
http://bicacoustechspeakers.com/clos...d=127&offset=0 


Other components:


Videoanasonic 42pz700u, ComcastHD, PhillipsDVD480p


Toys: Xbox360, Wii,


----------



## Spelly88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *homerunkevin* /forum/post/13859679
> 
> 
> How was your setup? how did you like the 1200s? I was planning on getting either the Dayton 10 or 12 inch sub. Thanks



I have to say that I'm very happy with everything... This is my bedroom set to which I mainly use it for TV and PS3 gaming and Blu-Ray movies. I'm in a condo, so I can't really tell you much about the Sub100 as I keep it basically at the lowest volume, but I did turn it up for just a second to see the what it could do, and it definitely has room shaking potential...


The thing about the "thud" is true though... Sometime my wife blows the power drying her hair (she always blames my computer, but I know the truth) and when we flip the circuit breaker switch back on, I definitely hear a big "thud" from the sub... That seems to be the only time it happens... It's not really a big deal to me though...


The Dayton speakers have a little heft to them which for some reason I always like in speakers... I hooked them all up to the HK AVR 147 and used the auto calibrate feature and after about 10 minutes everything was set...


I basically have my DVR, PS3, and HD-DVD player going hdmi right to my Philips 47" lcd, and optical cables from the devices going into the AVR...


I know that when I move into a house eventually, I'm going to want to upgrade to a 7.1 system that supports the latest codecs such as TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc., at which time I'll probably buy a new setup for that room...


But as a bedroom system in a typical bedroom sized area, the AVR 147 with the Dayton speakers and sub are definitely worth it in my opinion...


----------



## LBFilmGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LBFilmGuy* /forum/post/13843664
> 
> 
> Hey folks...I am considering the HTIB Panasonic PT760...especially because of the price and the fact that it does wireless rear sats. How much would running wireless rears like this cost if I got everything seperate like suggested here?
> 
> 
> I have a 42" Panasonic plasma along with a PS3 via HDMI as of now.
> 
> 
> Thanks



anyone?


----------



## NeoTek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NeoTek* /forum/post/13859476
> 
> 
> So I have been reading up on this thread quite a bit. I need help making a decision on speakers for my onkyo htr510. I want to stick with sub $300.00 so I have 2 choices from the information that I have gathered here.
> 
> 
> Dayton HT-1200 and the Dayton 10 or 12 in sub
> 
> or
> 
> The Polk Audio RM6750 setup.
> 
> 
> Which one would be better as the price is right around the same. I am looking for a small speaker setup. Also anyone know much about these I heard they sound really good but not sure about a HT setup.
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=309-408 Thanks in advance for the help!



I went ahead with the RM6750 for my setup and I have to say it was a huge improvement. I found the speakers on an open box special at CC for $150 so I couldn't pass it up.


----------



## eury13

I set my system up almost 3 weeks ago and have tweaked enough that I'm ready to pen my impressions.


After absorbing a lot of the info in this thread and others, I purchased a Harman Kardon AVR-146 refurb off their eBay store and went with the Dayton HT-1200 with the Sub-100 10" woofer. My space is a relatively large living room/dining room with 8' ceilings. It's in a condo with decent sound insulation between the units, but loudness could still be a concern.


This is my first home theater sound system, so coming from tv speakers I am clearly impressed with the improvement. Audio is clearer, crisper, and the sub makes movie-watching a full sensory experience. Heck, I even enjoy truck commercials with a good bit of thumping.


That being said, I need to play around with my sub placement and level a bit more. There are times when it's still too boomy to the point of being distracting from the overall sound. I'm waiting for a longer cable to give me more flexibility in where it's located.


Although the sound quality is generally very good, I have had difficulty with sound levels. My significant other doesn't like things to be very loud, but we've found that most TV shows have wildly varying sound levels. When I raise the volume enough to hear the quiet dialogue, I then have to quickly lower it when the scene gets noisy. I'm talking 10db swings to maintain a relatively level listening experience. It's not something I mind as much when watching alone, and I blame it primarily on the source, but it is something I've had to deal with.


Now that I've been bitten by the HT bug, I certainly see the possibility of upgrading down the road. I'd want speakers with lower range (the Daytons bottom out at 100hz) to take some of the load off the sub and let it focus exclusively on the sub-80hz stuff. Right now I can certainly tell when the sub is handling audio that isn't it's forte (such as parts of Xerxes' dialogue in the movie '300').


I've yet to play with music through this system, and as I continue watching and listening I hope to keep putting it through its paces and kicking the tires, so to speak. But for now, I'm quite happy with my purchases (especially for the price) and would certainly recommend this system for a first-time home theater buyer.


----------

