# The 3D via a HDMI 1.3 AV-Receiver Thread



## MrManson

Hey guys!


I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.

I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.


Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?

I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.



Thanks in advance!


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## peter0328

I'm also wondering what people have found out about this situation. I know it's possible with the L/R Comcast 3D but for people who have the Samsung combo with MvA have you guys tried playing through an Onkyo receiver? I have the 707 and Onkyo didn't even make a 3D version of it so there is no upgrade path for me. I might have to get a 1.4 splitter or something when I go 3D...


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## THE DU3C3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrManson* /forum/post/18681989
> 
> 
> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.
> 
> I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.
> 
> 
> Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?
> 
> I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



There is no way to watch 3D Blu-ray through a HDMI 1.3 AVR. As soon as you try to start the movie it automatically reverts to the 2D version of the film. The chipset in the AVR cannot process the 3D codec. Your options are to use the analog out from the player to your AVR and run the HDMI directly to the TV. Or you could pickup one of the Panasonic players and utilize the dual HDMI outputs. Otherwise you will have to upgrade to a 1.4 AVR.


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## MrManson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *THE DU3C3* /forum/post/18682218
> 
> 
> Your options are to use the analog out from the player to your AVR and run the HDMI directly to the TV.



Assumed I would plug the HDMI directly to the TV and a digital optical audio cable to my avr, would it be synchronous?


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## LORDLICH

That was my problem,bought a 3d blu ray player with 2 hdmi outs one for sound the other 3d video.


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## MrManson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LORDLICH* /forum/post/18682537
> 
> 
> That was my problem,bought a 3d blu ray player with 2 hdmi outs one for sound the other 3d video.



but now everything is fine?


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## LORDLICH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrManson* /forum/post/18682569
> 
> 
> but now everything is fine?



Yes it is working, the splitter might not work that is why I just decided to buy the panasonic 350,comes with wireless dongle demo disc and once you set up the wireless update asap.


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## BioSehnsucht

Are you sure there's "no way" to do it? I know at least some of the players let you force 3D mode. The receiver might not be able to pass say frame sequential, but side by side and checkerboard should pass. I know I've sent checkerboard through my PC through my 1.3 HDMI Yamaha to my Samsung DLP.


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## THE DU3C3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BioSehnsucht* /forum/post/18684611
> 
> 
> Are you sure there's "no way" to do it? I know at least some of the players let you force 3D mode. The receiver might not be able to pass say frame sequential, but side by side and checkerboard should pass. I know I've sent checkerboard through my PC through my 1.3 HDMI Yamaha to my Samsung DLP.



Sure the other 3D formats will work, but there is no way of converting the frame sequential 3D Blu-ray into side-by-side or checkerboard. So as far as 3D Blu-ray is concerned you need to use the options I've already mentioned.


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## Splashman24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *THE DU3C3* /forum/post/18685423
> 
> 
> Sure the other 3D formats will work, but there is no way of converting the frame sequential 3D Blu-ray into side-by-side or checkerboard. So as far as 3D Blu-ray is concerned you need to use the options I've already mentioned.




Actually, the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players will convert the frame sequential 3D to checkerboard. This how those of us with DLP 3D ready televisions are able to view 3D Blu-ray without a converter.


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## golferbradbest

yes, thank god for Panasonic. They should get all out business when we decide to upgrade from our dlp's.


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## peter0328

Stupid Onkyo not releasing an update to the 707


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## obveron

great thread.


Can some tell me, how do these dual HDMI blu-ray players work. Can I seperate the audio and video signals. Can I bitstream HD audio to a 1.3 Receiver, while sending framepacked (sequential) 3D video to a 1.4 3DTV?


Edit: Did some reading, to answer my own question, yes it works, that's exactly the point of the dual hdmi player.


only question now, is cost.


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## cubateve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obveron* /forum/post/18690567
> 
> 
> great thread.
> 
> 
> Can some tell me, how do these dual HDMI blu-ray players work. Can I seperate the audio and video signals. Can I bitstream HD audio to a 1.3 Receiver, while sending framepacked (sequential) 3D video to a 1.4 3DTV?
> 
> 
> Edit: Did some reading, to answer my own question, yes it works, that's exactly the point of the dual hdmi player.
> 
> 
> only question now, is cost.



I'm quite curious about this myself - is there any chance that the sound and video might not remain synched by having the two separate outputs? I realize receivers can help compensate difference, but I'd rather not have to mess with that - and I'd like to maintain my lossless HD-Audio.


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## obveron

I don't have the player to confirm. But seeing as the Panasonic DMP-BDT350 is designed to have dual HDMI outputs for the specific purpose of sending video directly to a HDMI 1.4 display, and audio directly to a HDMI 1.3 receiver. I'd say they're in sync. Otherwise Panasonic would have failed to accomplish the entire purpose of having the dual HDMI outputs.


See here: http://bluray-players.net/panasonic/...bdt350-review/ 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluray-players.net* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> *With the DMP-BDT350, you can send the high-bandwidth 3D video directly to the display and the audio directly to the AV receiver. It seems like the best option if you don’t plan on buying a new HDMI 1.4 receiver.*




Also read here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231167


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## hpmoon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrManson* /forum/post/18682263
> 
> 
> Assumed I would plug the HDMI directly to the TV and a digital optical audio cable to my avr, would it be synchronous?



While it would be synchronous, you would of course lose your HD audio. You'd just get plain vanilla AC3 or DTS.


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## hpmoon

Official thread regarding Sony's first HDMI 1.4-compatible A/V receiver is here . Appears to be shipping now.


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## peter0328

If anyone needs to know how to use the Xonar HDAV 1.3 and Arcsoft TMT3 with 3D Plugin to provide both 3D and Lossless Audio through an HDMI 1.3 receiver PM ME!


I am about 90% sure I have a solution that does not require the purchase of additional specialized components.


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## rudy4rail

Hi,


Longtime reader, first post. I had the same dilema. The new 3D Samsungs have an Audio Return Channel. This can be used to send the lossless HD audio from the TV to the receiver and plug the 3D player directly to the hdmi 1.4 input TV. Then use a third hdmi cable from the AVR to the TV.


My 3D player is enroute so I haven't been able to test it but will try soon. I've been assured this set up will work.


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## walford

Peter,

Why are not willing to provide your solution to all of us on this forum?

I never send or recieve PMs on this or any other fourm.

I admit that sometimes my solutions are wrong but I am certainy willing to admit that to all fourm members.


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## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18744398
> 
> 
> Peter,
> 
> Why are not willing to provide your solution to all of us on this forum?
> 
> I never send or recieve PMs on this or any other fourm.
> 
> I admit that sometimes my solutions are wrong but I am certainy willing to admit that to all fourm members.



I wanted to have someone test the solution before I posted it on the forums. I was also short on time when I made the post so I did not have enough time to type my proposed solution anyway. I have a bit of free time now so here is my solution for anyone who wishes to try it:


Components needed:

-HDMI 1.4 3DTV, or 3D Vision compatible display (DLP, 120Hz input monitor, etc) and compatible glasses

-HDMI 1.3 Receiver with DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD support

-Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 series audio card

-Two HDMI cables or one DVI>HDMI cable and one HDMI cable depending on GPU model

-Arcsoft TMT 3 with 3D plugin

-second HDMI source component


Configure your system using the following diagram:











Arcsoft TMT 3D Plugin settings:

-If using HDMI 1.4 3DTV, or NVIDIA 3D Vision LCD or DLP using the 3D Vision glasses set TMT 3D to option 2 "Page Flip/Frame Sequential".

-If using DLP 3DTV checkerboard along with DLP Link glasses use TMT 3D option 4 "Checkerboard".


Follow your 3DTV's instructions for enabling 3D mode when required.


Disclaimer:

The setup depicted in these instructions was designed by me. It has not been tested and is not guaranteed to work. If you choose to use this configuration think of yourself as a "beta tester". Any feedback you have would be appreciated so other AVS Forum members can benefit from your findings.


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## mike_pro

I have the Onkyo 805 and Samsung 58" 8000 series plasma. Unfortunately, the Onkyo will not pass the 3D signal from the Smasung 6900 Blu Ray player (or any player I'm guessing, but we'll see what the PS3 does...) You need to connect the HDMI cable directly to the TV, and do something else for audio.


The Panasonic player with 2 HDMI outputs is the best/easiest solution. The Samsung player has 7.1 channel analog outputs you can use to get uncompressed audio. Alternatively, that player will convert any of the lossless audio tracks to DTS optical output. I chose this route rather than mess with analog outs. I still use my PS3 for most blu ray playback, so can get uncompressed audio there. Only use the Samsung 6900 for 3D blu ray.



Honestly, I think the DTS is good enough for the majority of content. But, I'm considering getting the Onkyo 608 to simplify my setup. That way I can have the receiver do all HDMI switching with 3D and lossless audio, plus use the audio return instead of an optical out from the TV to the receiver. The TV's built in Netflix app works very well. Picture quality might even be better than PS3's version. It will suck to lose Audyssey MultiEQ though...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrManson* /forum/post/18681989
> 
> 
> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.
> 
> I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.
> 
> 
> Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?
> 
> I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## DaGamePimp

According to Samsung their ARC feature will allow the lossless audio to pass through the TV (via ARC enabled HDMI #2) and out to a 1.3 AVR, but the catch is that the AVR must support ARC (Audio Return Channel). I will try it later tonight and post my findings.


This is straight from the owners manual of a Samsung C7000...

*This product supports the 3D and ARC (Audio Return Channel) functions via an HDMI cable. Note that the ARC function is supported by the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port only.


The ARC function allows digital audio to output via the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port. It can be enabled only when the TV is connected with an audio receiver that supports the ARC function.*


Jason


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## GregLee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaGamePimp* /forum/post/18754871
> 
> 
> According to Samsung their ARC feature will allow the lossless audio to pass through the TV ...



The passages you quote don't mention "lossless" audio (only "digital" audio) and don't say the audio is passing "though" the TV. Most TVs can produce digital audio from their ATSC tuners, and that could presumably pass out over an HDMI connection using the ARC, but that is not lossless audio (which is not carried by OTA TV), and that audio is not exactly going "through" the TV. So I'm skeptical about this.


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## DaGamePimp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregLee* /forum/post/18754946
> 
> 
> The passages you quote don't mention "lossless" audio (only "digital" audio) and don't say the audio is passing "though" the TV. Most TVs can produce digital audio from their ATSC tuners, and that could presumably pass out over an HDMI connection using the ARC, but that is not lossless audio (which is not carried by OTA TV), and that audio is not exactly going "through" the TV. So I'm skeptical about this.



You may be correct, I tried it with an AVR that is not ARC supported and got nothing (not even 2 channel). The stupid thing here is that only the new 3D pass through AVR's offer ARC, at least from what I have found. I guess basically it allows you to use an HDMI cable from the tv vs. an optical/coaxial for audio. I do however recall reading an article (that I can no longer find, of course







) that stated that ARC would allow audio signals to pass through the tv and it was not just for the built in tuner.


Who knows... it's all so new







.


Jason


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## padlock

I recently purchased a 3d TV (VT25) and to my surprise, my PS3 detected the fact that it supported 3d, even though I'm connecting it through a 1.3 HDMI receiver (Denon 1909).


I just finished playing Wipout HD, Motorstorm and Super Stardust HD in 3d, and everything worked perfectly. The TV detected the 3d signal and switched modes automatically.


I didn't expect it to work going through my receiver, but it did.


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## wiggo

That's funny, because my PS3 screws up in 3D when switching through my Sony 5400ES receiver to my C7000 (either no picture or no sound, depending on the game). Works great directly connected, but I'm out of inputs! Anybody know of a 1.4 HDMI switch (preferably with remote, though an autoswitch would work)?


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## Mike5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *padlock* /forum/post/18760234
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a 3d TV (VT25) and to my surprise, my PS3 detected the fact that it supported 3d, even though I'm connecting it through a 1.3 HDMI receiver (Denon 1909).



This is what I would expect. 3D capability is written in display's EDID, in some bytes of the 1.4 VSDB (Vendor Specific Data Block) that in the previous 1.3 version were reserved. The receiver simply "routes" the VSDB from the display to the PS3, bytes it doesn't understand included.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *padlock* /forum/post/18760234
> 
> 
> I just finished playing Wipout HD, Motorstorm and Super Stardust HD in 3d, and everything worked perfectly. The TV detected the 3d signal and switched modes automatically.



This is what I would expect, too. If the games are (as I suspect) Frame Sequential at 60Hz, the frame is compatible with 1.3 standard and the information about 3D is stored in some bytes of the InfoFrame that the receiver simply routes to the display, even if it doesn't understand. The display, though, understands it and plays it in 3D.


But the thing would be completely different if the 3D format were Frame Packing [email protected] (3D Blu-ray). In this case the receiver can't understand the video format and is not able to pass-through it.


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## padlock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike5* /forum/post/18760773
> 
> 
> This is what I would expect, too. If the games are (as I suspect) Frame Sequential at 60Hz, the frame is compatible with 1.3 standard and the information about 3D is stored in some bytes of the InfoFrame that the receiver simply routes to the display, even if it doesn't understand. The display, though, understands it and plays it in 3D.
> 
> 
> But the thing would be completely different if the 3D format were Frame Packing [email protected] (3D Blu-ray). In this case the receiver can't understand the video format and is not able to pass-through it.



Would it not be possible for the PS3 (or any other 3d Blu-ray player for that matter) to convert the Frame Packed content into Frame Sequential before sending it out, thus allowing it to work through 1.3 receivers?


Isn't it possible to convert a 24Hz frame packing signal to 60 hz frame sequential without loosing any information?


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## Mike5

It is certainly possible and it is what 3D software players (like PDVD, TMT, etc...) do in HTPCs.


There are two problems. The first is that if you use a HDMI you are limited to [email protected], because the bandwidth needed for [email protected] (297Mhz) is not supported by any HDMI chip (at least today).


The second is that AFAIK Sony doesn't foresee such a feature for PS3. I haven't heard no 3D blu-ray player either.


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## browerjs

So I just got my 3d tv yesterday, and I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to view ESPN3D (once ATT Uverse figures out how to add it to my account). I currently go from my STB to Onkyo AVR via HDMI and then AVR->TV via HDMI.


Do I have to run HDMI from the STB directly to the tv? If so why since I doubt very seriously that the HDMI out on the STB is 1.4. And the STB doesn't output 1080p.


Do I only have to bypass my AVR for 3D Blu Ray? Will I have to bypass if I wait for the PS3 firmware update (isn't it only HDMI 1.3?).


Thanks!


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## scarabaeus

If you see the two squished side-by-side images, then just enable the manual "side-by-side" 3D mode in your TV's menu.


I'm not sure if the u-verse boxes do any VSDB/VSI signalling. If so, then connecting the box directly to your TV (without the A/V-Receiver inbetween) might automatically enable the 3D feature in your TV, and you don't have to switch manually.


If the box complains about the absence of a 3D TV while connecting through the AVR, then you might have to connect the TV directly.


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18774551
> 
> 
> If you see the two squished side-by-side images, then just enable the manual "side-by-side" 3D mode in your TV's menu.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if the u-verse boxes do any VSDB/VSI signalling. If so, then connecting the box directly to your TV (without the A/V-Receiver inbetween) might automatically enable the 3D feature in your TV, and you don't have to switch manually.
> 
> 
> If the box complains about the absence of a 3D TV while connecting through the AVR, then you might have to connect the TV directly.



Setting the TV to Side-by-Side worked like a charm through the AVR. Until there is more 3d content available, I'll just do this manually.


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## scarabaeus

Glad that you are happy with that solution.


Please note that this will only work with the "frame compatible" broadcasts in side-by-side and top-and-bottom formats. As soon as you try to push 3D Blu-ray content or Playstation 3D gaming in the "frame packing" format through your receiver, this trick will no longer work, and you will need a receiver that is aware of HDMI 1.4 3D formats.


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18776296
> 
> 
> Glad that you are happy with that solution.
> 
> 
> Please note that this will only work with the "frame compatible" broadcasts in side-by-side and top-and-bottom formats. As soon as you try to push 3D Blu-ray content or Playstation 3D gaming in the "frame packing" format through your receiver, this trick will no longer work, and you will need a receiver that is aware of HDMI 1.4 3D formats.



Yea, until more 3d TV station come along with different formats I'll stick to this solution with the STB. Once the PS3 gets the firmware update or if I decide to get a standalone 3D Bluray player, I'll probably just go optical for audio and forgo the HD audio.


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## Mike5

Or you could buy a dual HDMI output 3D BD player, like the Panasonic DMP-BDT350, connecting the HDMI 1.4 output to the display and the HDMI 1.3 one to the receiver.


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## scarabaeus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike5* /forum/post/18778077
> 
> 
> Or you could buy a dual HDMI output 3D BD player, like the Panasonic DMP-BDT350, connecting the HDMI 1.4 output to the display and the HDMI 1.3 one to the receiver.



Yes, but that would still prevent the auto-enabling of the side-by-side 3D from the U-Verse box. If they even implement such a feature at some point.


browerjs, did you have a chance to connect the U-Verse directly to your TV and tune to ESPN 3D? Did the TV switch to 3D mode automatically?


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## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike5* /forum/post/18778077
> 
> 
> Or you could buy a dual HDMI output 3D BD player, like the Panasonic DMP-BDT350, connecting the HDMI 1.4 output to the display and the HDMI 1.3 one to the receiver.



Yes, but at this point I'm not really worried about the HD sound as the 3D tv is my secondary Blu-Ray viewing display (120" FP first). Although knowing me I'll probably cave and get that Panny 350 once the PS3 takes too long to get the firmware update out


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18779117
> 
> 
> Yes, but that would still prevent the auto-enabling of the side-by-side 3D from the U-Verse box. If they even implement such a feature at some point.
> 
> 
> browerjs, did you have a chance to connect the U-Verse directly to your TV and tune to ESPN 3D? Did the TV switch to 3D mode automatically?



No I didn't. I'll try to find some time to do it tonight. The way I have to route my cables and get behind the TV and components (inside a contained entertainment center) isn't the easiest.


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/18779460
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18779117
> 
> 
> Yes, but that would still prevent the auto-enabling of the side-by-side 3D from the U-Verse box. If they even implement such a feature at some point.
> 
> 
> browerjs, did you have a chance to connect the U-Verse directly to your TV and tune to ESPN 3D? Did the TV switch to 3D mode automatically?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I didn't. I'll try to find some time to do it tonight. The way I have to route my cables and get behind the TV and components (inside a contained entertainment center) isn't the easiest.
Click to expand...


Just got done trying the direct route, and it didn't automatically detect it as side-by-side. I'm guessing they aren't sending some sort of flag, but I'm not sure. Any ideas?


----------



## scarabaeus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/18781537
> 
> 
> Just got done trying the direct route, and it didn't automatically detect it as side-by-side. I'm guessing they aren't sending some sort of flag, but I'm not sure. Any ideas?



Thanks for trying. I did not really expect this to work, since I know what companies are behind the middleware of those boxes, and I have a rough idea how long their specification, testing, and evaluation schedules are delaying any new features. HDMI 1.4a is just too new. At least, when you eventually have that feature, it will be well tested.


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## walford

Browerjs.

The user manual for the Samsung 3D TVs implies that if you have the TV set to 3D mode that it will automatically switch for some of the 1/2 formats if received. For others you have to tell it what 3D format you are sending to it.


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18781612
> 
> 
> Thanks for trying. I did not really expect this to work, since I know what companies are behind the middleware of those boxes, and I have a rough idea how long their specification, testing, and evaluation schedules are delaying any new features. HDMI 1.4a is just too new. At least, when you eventually have that feature, it will be well tested.



So you think this is definately a ATT misconfiguration? One other thing I want to try is see if the auto-switching will work during actual programming. I only tried the direct connection with the Off air programming (the epsn3d slide). I will play back the dvr recording of the game today and see if it works.


----------



## scarabaeus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/18783895
> 
> 
> So you think this is definately a ATT misconfiguration? One other thing I want to try is see if the auto-switching will work during actual programming. I only tried the direct connection with the Off air programming (the epsn3d slide). I will play back the dvr recording of the game today and see if it works.



Good, let us know how that works.


I don't know if I would call that a "misconfiguration". The 3D auto switching for side-by-side/top-and-bottom is more of a convenience feature, which saves you to have to go into the TV's menu and enable 3D yourself. I would consider it optional, from a technical standpoint.


That's why I do not understand that DirecTV apparently made this mandatory in their box, to be able to play back 3D.


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## walford

AFAIK the DirecTV box uses the EDID data from the TV to determine the make/model number of the 3D TV and if it is not on their list it will not output to it and how the box is configured to receive 3D is not considered. See the requirement section of the following link:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/hd/3d


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## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18784550
> 
> 
> AFAIK the DirecTV box uses the EDID data from the TV to determine the make/model number of the 3D TV and if it is not on their list it will not output to it and how the box is configured to receive 3D is not considered. See the requirement section of the following link:
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/hd/3d



But why would the DirecTV box output cause the TV to auto-switch to 3d. There must be some kind of flag/parameter that's sent that tells the TV what it's sending. This is what I'm guessing UVerse isn't sending along.


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## scarabaeus

This was all discussed in one of the 3D tech threads months ago. HDMI has even released the 3D spec publicly, so you can take a look for yourself.


There is a so called "Vendor Specific Data Block", or VSDB, belonging to the HDMI LLC. inside the TV's EDID. This data block can be used to signal support for one or more 3D formats. The source device reads this EDID and decides whether to send 3D or not to the TV. If it sends 3D, then it tags the video with a so called "Vendor Specific InfoFrame", or VSI, again belonging to HDMI LLC. This tells the TV which 3D format the source is sending out.


HDMI 1.3 AVRs do not know about either of the two, and discard VSDBs when replicating the TV's EDID at their inputs, and don't pass the player's VSI to the TV.


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18786592
> 
> 
> This was all discussed in one of the 3D tech threads months ago. HDMI has even released the 3D spec publicly, so you can take a look for yourself.
> 
> 
> There is a so called "Vendor Specific Data Block", or VSDB, belonging to the HDMI LLC. inside the TV's EDID. This data block can be used to signal support for one or more 3D formats. The source device reads this EDID and decides whether to send 3D or not to the TV. If it sends 3D, then it tags the video with a so called "Vendor Specific InfoFrame", or VSI, again belonging to HDMI LLC. This tells the TV which 3D format the source is sending out.
> 
> 
> HDMI 1.3 AVRs do not know about either of the two, and discard VSDBs when replicating the TV's EDID at their inputs, and don't pass the player's VSI to the TV.



Thanks for the info. I emailed tier 2 support at U-Verse about the auto-switching and received the following:

This is XXXXX with U-Verse Tier II Technical Support. We want to thank you for e-mailing the U-Verse Care Social Media Support Group, where our goal is to resolve your issue as soon as possible. We are excited that you are already experiencing the new cutting edge 3D technology. You are absolutely correct by stating that this technology is very, very new and we are in the very earliest of stages with it. Therefore, it follows that the technology is not everything that it will soon become.


As you've discovered already, at this time it is necessary to manually change your television set to 3D mode when viewing 3D programming. It is also necessary to manually return to 2D mode. We are confident that as this technology evolves and progresses the manual toggling between 3D and 2D will become automatic.


----------



## obveron

I don't know what the all the fuss is about automatic this and that. Do you want the glasses to be automatically put on your face too?


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obveron* /forum/post/18789038
> 
> 
> I don't know what the all the fuss is about automatic this and that. Do you want the glasses to be automatically put on your face too?



If you are channel surfing you want to have to switch the 3d mode every time you change a channel?


It's not really a problem now, because there is only one channel, but as more channels come online it will be an issue, especially if broadcasters don't all use the same format.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/18789325
> 
> 
> If you are channel surfing you want to have to switch the 3d mode every time you change a channel?
> 
> 
> It's not really a problem now, because there is only one channel, but as more channels come online it will be an issue, especially if broadcasters don't all use the same format.



I believe when a surfer sees that a program is offered on the 3D channel, they won't mind switching to 3D manually. "Honey, switch the TV mode to 3D, while I try to find those 3D goggles the kids had yesterday." I doubt very much that the glasses will be constantly hanging from a cord on their neck.


It's the future though, so who knows. Read some back issues of _Popular Science_ from the '60s and '70s to see what I mean about predictions.


----------



## TheMarco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/18773898
> 
> 
> Will I have to bypass if I wait for the PS3 firmware update (isn't it only HDMI 1.3?).
> 
> Thanks!



I wonder how this update is going to work. Will they magically update the PS3 from HDMI 1.3 to HDMI 1.4? Is this even possible?


----------



## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/18794653
> 
> 
> I believe when a surfer sees that a program is offered on the 3D channel, they won't mind switching to 3D manually. "Honey, switch the TV mode to 3D, while I try to find those 3D goggles the kids had yesterday." I doubt very much that the glasses will be constantly hanging from a cord on their neck.
> 
> 
> It's the future though, so who knows. Read some back issues of _Popular Science_ from the '60s and '70s to see what I mean about predictions.



I don't disagree with that, which is why I made the comment that it's not a huge deal because there is only 1 channel now. As you get multiple 3D channels in multiple formats, it becomes an issue.


Viewers will probably decide to watch 2D or 3D in a session, and not go between the two.


----------



## Anthony1

Would it be possible to use a HDMI detective between a PS3 and your AVR, to get the PS3 to send the 3D signal to the AVR, even if it doesn't see it as being compliant?


I have yet to try running the PS3 directly into my AVR to see if it will work with my VT20, but I'm pretty sure it won't work. However, I was thinking that If I put a Geffen HDMI detective in-between the two devices, it might work? My AVR is a Marantz SR7001, which I really enjoy and have no plans to upgrade (downgrade is more like it) to another AVR just for 3D compatibility. If a HDMI detective would do the trick, then I could probably live with that.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony1* /forum/post/18795014
> 
> 
> Would it be possible to use a HDMI detective between a PS3 and your AVR, to get the PS3 to send the 3D signal to the AVR, even if it doesn't see it as being compliant?
> 
> 
> I have yet to try running the PS3 directly into my AVR to see if it will work with my VT20, but I'm pretty sure it won't work. However, I was thinking that If I put a Gefen HDMI detective in-between the two devices, it might work? My AVR is a Marantz SR7001, which I really enjoy and have no plans to upgrade (downgrade is more like it) to another AVR just for 3D compatibility. If a HDMI detective would do the trick, then I could probably live with that.



Yeah, the issue seems to be that even if the Geffen HDMI Detective forces the signal to the (HDMI 1.3) AVR, will the AVR be able to:

1. pass it on to the TV?

2. pluck the audio stream from the signal?

*scarabaeus*, can you help out here?


----------



## scarabaeus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/18795165
> 
> *scarabaeus*, can you help out here?



I can try...


It most likely will not work. The HDMI Detective only replicates the 3D TV's EDID towards the player. The playstation will be compelled to set rame packing 720p or 1080p on it's HDMI output, but the AVR does not know what to do with such a video timing and will croak. Also, you will lose all the extra audio capabilities of the AVR.


Here's a normal 2D case:

Code:


Code:


+--------+        +--------+          +--------+
| Player |        |   AVR  |          |   TV   |
|        |        |        |  DDC     |        |
|        |        |  merge


----------



## peter0328

PS3 3D passthrough on most HDMI 1.3 receivers will not work.


Another member posted in another thread about it working with his receiver. It is possible it will work but it is extremely unlikely.


----------



## Anthony1

Somebody needs to make a splitter device, where you plug the hdmi output of the PS3 into a small box, and on that box it has two outputs. One output carries the hdmi audio to the AVR, and the other output carries the hdmi video to the TV. If they can come up with a device like this for $149.99 or less, I'd buy it, cause it would be worth it not to even consider getting a new receiver.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scarabaeus* /forum/post/18796205
> 
> 
> I can try......[snip]



Thanks.


----------



## gravy

Funny that you'd ask, as I was researching this very thing today. Cables Unlimited makes a series of splitters, one of which is two HDMI to one display. It's 19.99 at Frys (now that's my kind of price!). Unfortunately, as of now, it did not split my signal between the projector and the Onkyo AVR. All HDMI switches work (even for 3D and HD audio), but this one freaks out as soon as I plug in the second display (projector). I only got it today, and haven't spent much time. There are no power connections or buttons to push, so unless a powering on sequence solves it, this didn't work.


My perfect scenario is video out to PJ (or TV), and audio out to receiver. This way I get the full HD audio. Right now, I have the HTPC connected with the optical from the mobo. I'd like to have the full gamut.


----------



## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gravy* /forum/post/18797462
> 
> 
> Funny that you'd ask, as I was researching this very thing today. Cables Unlimited makes a series of splitters, one of which is two HDMI to one display. It's 19.99 at Frys (now that's my kind of price!). Unfortunately, as of now, it did not split my signal between the projector and the Onkyo AVR. All HDMI switches work (even for 3D and HD audio), but this one freaks out as soon as I plug in the second display (projector). I only got it today, and haven't spent much time. There are no power connections or buttons to push, so unless a powering on sequence solves it, this didn't work.
> 
> 
> My perfect scenario is video out to PJ (or TV), and audio out to receiver. This way I get the full HD audio. Right now, I have the HTPC connected with the optical from the mobo. I'd like to have the full gamut.



What are you using to bitstream the lossless codecs from your HTPC (Xonar, ATI GPU, or Intel i series CPU)? If it's Xonar I know a solution to get it to work. What is your 3D display and what content and playback software are you using?


----------



## Anthony1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gravy* /forum/post/18797462
> 
> 
> Funny that you'd ask, as I was researching this very thing today. Cables Unlimited makes a series of splitters, one of which is two HDMI to one display. It's 19.99 at Frys (now that's my kind of price!). Unfortunately, as of now, it did not split my signal between the projector and the Onkyo AVR. All HDMI switches work (even for 3D and HD audio), but this one freaks out as soon as I plug in the second display (projector). I only got it today, and haven't spent much time. There are no power connections or buttons to push, so unless a powering on sequence solves it, this didn't work.
> 
> 
> My perfect scenario is video out to PJ (or TV), and audio out to receiver. This way I get the full HD audio. Right now, I have the HTPC connected with the optical from the mobo. I'd like to have the full gamut.



That splitter that you got, was likely designed so that you could hook up two seperate DVD players to one HDMI input. It's not sending out the same signal at the same time via both HDMI outputs. It's sending one or the other. Also, again, I don't think this will work unless the PS3 gets an EDID of a known 2010 model 3D TV.


----------



## gravy

According to the description, it is indeed designed to take a single signal, and send it to two displays. Power the first one on, make sure it connects, and power the second, is what the instructions say. I only tried it briefly, and it may work once the handshaking begins. I also got a cheap 4x2 switch, that works. I am going from an 8-port HDMI switch, to a 4x2, so everything will either come out the TV or the PJ, when switched.


Right now, I am not bitstreaming the 3D, because the AVR doesn't pass the 3D signal. The $50 switch from 4 years ago has no problem doing it.


I picked up a Xonar slim the other day, and haven't tried it yet. I would be interested in hearing how that works. I believe the card needs a video signal to output audio. Some have apparently used the 2nd DVI output, or a 3rd device not actually in use. IF this works, then I can avoid replacing the AVR.


I'm using a Viewsonic PDJ6531w for 3D output, and it looks excellent (albeit slightly stretched due to 16:10)


----------



## walford

If you just have a simple Y spliter and not a powered splitter/repeater model it will not output to two HDMI displays concurently. This is because DVI and HDMI are handshaking protocols. To work one of the two displays a Y splitter is connected to needs to be turned off.


----------



## gravy

I understand that, and thought the same thing. This device has an active circuit, and is not simply a Y-cable. If you do a search for PCM-2275, you'll see it has a fairly large box on it. It's not surprising this is possible, as long as there are electronics to handle the handshaking.


----------



## walford

I did not see your second post before I sent my above post. I now see from a picture of it that it has USB connector for power.


----------



## scarabaeus

Such a 3D-aware Y splitter should work for the frame compatible 3D modes. These things replicate the EDID from one "master" output to the input, and send the same video timing to all outputs. Connecting the "master" output to the TV, you would have the 3D capabilities, but you would lose the audio formats of you AVR. The 3D auto-switching should work, since the splitter passes through the VSIs, and the AVR simply does not care about them. You would have to "force" your HD-Audio formats, though, if your player lets you do that.


It looks different when you use the frame packing formats of the PS3 or a Blu-ray player. The AVR does not know those timings and will not be able to get audio from those signals. The splitter can not send frame packing to the TV, and just the left view as normal 1080p to the AVR, that would require a scaler.


----------



## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gravy* /forum/post/18799206
> 
> 
> According to the description, it is indeed designed to take a single signal, and send it to two displays. Power the first one on, make sure it connects, and power the second, is what the instructions say. I only tried it briefly, and it may work once the handshaking begins. I also got a cheap 4x2 switch, that works. I am going from an 8-port HDMI switch, to a 4x2, so everything will either come out the TV or the PJ, when switched.
> 
> 
> Right now, I am not bitstreaming the 3D, because the AVR doesn't pass the 3D signal. The $50 switch from 4 years ago has no problem doing it.
> 
> 
> I picked up a Xonar slim the other day, and haven't tried it yet. I would be interested in hearing how that works. I believe the card needs a video signal to output audio. Some have apparently used the 2nd DVI output, or a 3rd device not actually in use. IF this works, then I can avoid replacing the AVR.
> 
> 
> I'm using a Viewsonic PDJ6531w for 3D output, and it looks excellent (albeit slightly stretched due to 16:10)



Try this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...0&postcount=21 


What is your method for 3D glasses? 3D Vision?


----------



## Davinleeds

I just use an hdmi out from the MB or second dvi out of my graphics card to separate audio through the Xonar. One to AVR other to display.


----------



## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Davinleeds* /forum/post/18803061
> 
> 
> I just use an hdmi out from the MB or second dvi out of my graphics card to separate audio through the Xonar. One to AVR other to display.



So this method worked for you using Blu-ray 3D frame-packed output?


----------



## gonthorn

My findings issues and questions on this:


I have an Onkyo 705 AVR, HTPC is the source with an ATI 5770 graphics card as the output.


The Display device is an Optoma hd66 projector.


*I know the hd66 is not hdmi 1.4 but my issues are similar*


The issue:


120hz frame sequential output from the HTPC will not handshake with the Onkyo, 60hz is great, 120hz ..... no signal.


If I rewire things and have hdmi straight to the optoma, 120hz passes and works correctly, but there is no audio in this setup.


My work in progress testing:


My ATI 5770 card has 3 outputs, 1 DVI, 1 HDMI, 1 Display port.



Using a DVI to HDMI adapter I am able to send 120hz to the projector directly.


Then using the hdmi port I am able to send audio at 60hz to my onkyo.


As far as the HTPC is concerned, the onkyo shows up as a second monitor which I simply set to "extended desktop". Those still following any of this may wonder how you can get a dual monitor output to send different refresh rates to multiple displays. Enter ATI's Hydravision software (part of the catalyst driver) it allows separate refresh rate adjustments.



This solution almost works ! the BUT:


The receiver will not bitstream audio, the 5770 was able to bitstream HD audio just fine before all this 3D stuff. I am not sure if this is a handshake issue but when the PC switches output to bitstream audio my onkyo goes to "no signal" like it could not handshake, thus I get no sound. If I keep the sound decoded by the HTPC it works fine.


Not sure what I am missing yet, need to keep testing.


My point is that if anyone has a HTPC they are using for 3d, and for whatever reason their AVR wont pass the signal, try using the multiple outputs on the graphics card (all the ATI 5000 series cards should output audio and video over hdmi).... and if you get it working better than I have it working now ... please let me know ! lol


----------



## advocate2

I have the Yamaha rx-v565 (HTR-6250BL) and I just purchased the Mits 3d adapter kit to go with my 73735. The PS3 3d games now available play fine going through the receiver. My Directv HR23, however, does not. When I try to run the HR23 through the Yamaha I get a message from the HR23 that my tv is not 3d compatible.


----------



## toysonline

*Report test Samsung c-6900 3D player->onkyo 905(HDMI 1.3 AVM)-> PS C-7000*

Hdmi cable ...1 is 1.4 another 2 is 1.3b

Check 3D player to TV.....====3D working Fine...

Using AVR hdmi pass trough ======3D do no work....

Using HDMI splitter. 1 in and 2 out ( with powersupply)=====3d work ,,,,But AVR cannot detect any HD sound(AVR display no HD sound contack)

Just go back to the computer Cable shop...Refund the HDMI splitter money>>>

If possible...PLease let me know....Which brand HDMI splitter can working fine.( 3D & HD sound).

Thanks


----------



## Mike5

You need a splitter that send the 3D video signal (1.4 standard) to the TV and the audio signal, embedded inside any video signal, as long as in 1.3 standard, to the AVR.


I don't know wether such a splitter already exists. Others more informed than me could tell.


----------



## MrManson

still no hdmi 1.4 splitter around? :/


----------



## botzos

If you use PS3 as a source (that will soon support 3D via a firmware upgrade) why it is not possible to pass the signal through an HDMI 1.3 receiver (setting of video signal output signal to "through") and then to your 3D tv?

What is the difference of the above to connecting your PS3 directly to your 3D tv?


----------



## Mike5

The difference is that both PS3 and the 3D TV (will) support the "3D over HDMI" protocol, while a HDMI 1.3 receiver doesn't.


The video format is different in this protocol, at least for 3D Blu-Ray and thus the receiver can't extract the audio from the video.


----------



## walford

The only 3D HDMI1.4a 3D protocol that a HDMI 1.3 3d capable receiver can not extract the audio from is the double packed frame format from a new 3D blu-ray player when playing a 3D BR disk. An HDMI 1.3 receiver will support all of the other HDMI 1.4a protocols without any problem


----------



## botzos

Walfrod could you please rephrase your statement because I am not sure that I have understood you.....




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike5* /forum/post/19151804
> 
> 
> The difference is that both PS3 and the 3D TV (will) support the "3D over HDMI" protocol, while a HDMI 1.3 receiver doesn't.
> 
> 
> The video format is different in this protocol, at least for 3D Blu-Ray and thus the receiver can't extract the audio from the video.



I would like to give more details to what I have meant.

Drive only the audio from the PS3 to the receiver through optical (no HD sound, fine only DTS/DD) and only the 3D video to your 3D tv through your 1.3 receiver via HDMI with the setting as "through". Why this will not work?


----------



## walford

Both the cable and satellite companies receivers have no problem passing HDMI 1.4a 3D SbS or Tnb formatted using the HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips in their rceivers through A/V receivers that support pass through mode and the A/V receivers can strip out the audio since SbS and TnB format use standard 1080i or 720p resoluiton frames.

However a 3D blu-ray player can pass through the double packed frame HDMI 1.41 3D format which is a 1920x2205 resolution and only a HDMI 1.4 A/V receiver can remove the audio from these frames.

This is a little more explanation then what Mike discussed


----------



## EAGLE-1

hi guys,well yesterday 8-9-10 i buy the onkyo TX-NR5008, i already have the 805,really great receiver but dont work with 3d,well at least for my set up dont work,anyway i buy this TX-NR5008 only for the 3d support and for my surprisse when i hook my ps3 and start,3d dont work!!, i already try this 2 settings

1- ps3 to 3d adapter,adapter to receiver,receiver to tv

2-ps3 to receiver,receiver to 3d adapter,adapter to tv

any of then work!!


my setup:

MITSUBISHI WD82837

3DC-1000 3D ADAPTER

ONKYO TX-NR5008

PS3

ONKYO BP-807 THX BLU RAY PLAYER


any help guys?? really thanks!!


----------



## NSX1992

Welcome to the club. I have the same TV and adaptor and a new 1.4 Integra AVR bought for 3D. Eventually the PS3 and Xbox360 worked with the AVR and adaptor. However my cable FIOS DVR would not. The only solution was to bypass the AVR by a HDMI switch and use optical cable for sound.


Reading all the posts in the Adaptor section I stayed away from Onkyo AVRs. Your #2 hookup is correct. I still cannot believe that all the new 1.4 devices cannot do proper handshakes.


----------



## botzos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19156151
> 
> 
> Both the cable and satellite companies receivers have no problem passing HDMI 1.4a 3D SbS or Tnb formatted using the HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips in their rceivers through A/V receivers that support pass through mode and the A/V receivers can strip out the audio since SbS and TnB format use standard 1080i or 720p resoluiton frames.
> 
> However a 3D blu-ray player can pass through the double packed frame HDMI 1.41 3D format which is a 1920x2205 resolution and only a HDMI 1.4 A/V receiver can remove the audio from these frames.
> 
> This is a little more explanation then what Mike discussed



But if you drive the audio seperately through optical there is no need for the receiver to extract the audio.

Is that so?


----------



## Wryker

I'm cross posting this all over:

I can watch 3D PS3 games connecting PS3 direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.

I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.

I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then to 3DC-1000 then to Mitsy TV.

I can NOT watch PS3 games connecting PS3 to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.

Having both Comcast and PS3 through the Denon allows Comcast 3D to work but not PS3 games. Anyone have a suggestion on what does work for you with this set up?


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19178312
> 
> 
> I'm cross posting this all over:
> 
> I can watch 3D PS3 games connecting PS3 direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
> 
> I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
> 
> I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then to 3DC-1000 then to Mitsy TV.
> 
> I can NOT watch PS3 games connecting PS3 to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
> 
> Having both Comcast and PS3 through the Denon allows Comcast 3D to work but not PS3 games. Anyone have a suggestion on what does work for you with this set up?



I think . . . not 100% sure . . . that this is what you need:

http://www.accellcables.com/products.../4x1Switch.htm 


They run about $55 on the internet (Amazon)


You would put this box before your 3DC1000 which would get the output of the above. Then you attach the PS3 HDMI ouput and the Denon AVR 3808 HDMI output to the Inputs on this box. The problem is no DTS MA/Dolby TrueHD from BD from the PS3. For that you would need a product that has not been released; a box that is like a splitter except one output is for HD audio only (no video) while the other is for 1.4 3D video from BD (movies and games)


The reason why I say I am not sure is this from the link:

*The HDMI switch is compliant to the latest HDMI 1.3 specification up to 7.5 Gbps (250MHz).*


I can't remember the specs for 3D BD games and movies. Hopefully someone will chime in and either agree with me or correct me.


You can always try to locate one (they show where it is sold) and if it doesn't pass the 3D BD content through then you can return it.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19178629
> 
> 
> I think . . . not 100% sure . . . that this is what you need:
> 
> http://www.accellcables.com/products.../4x1Switch.htm
> 
> 
> They run about $55 on the internet (Amazon)
> 
> 
> You would put this box before your 3DC1000 which would get the output of the above. Then you attach the PS3 HDMI ouput and the Denon AVR 3808 HDMI output to the Inputs on this box. The problem is no DTS MA/Dolby TrueHD from BD from the PS3. For that you would need a product that has not been released; a box that is like a splitter except one output is for HD audio only (no video) while the other is for 1.4 3D video from BD (movies and games)
> 
> 
> The reason why I say I am not sure is this from the link:
> 
> *The HDMI switch is compliant to the latest HDMI 1.3 specification up to 7.5 Gbps (250MHz).*
> 
> 
> I can't remember the specs for 3D BD games and movies. Hopefully someone will chime in and either agree with me or correct me.
> 
> 
> You can always try to locate one (they show where it is sold) and if it doesn't pass the 3D BD content through then you can return it.



Due to the number of devices I have I already have a 1.3 switcher though my HDTIVO nor PS3 is connected to it and I could connect both to it but the output would still go through the AVR so I don't see the PS3 working that method either. I understand what you're saying regarding a splitter (you can pre-order 1.4HDMI splitters for @$500 so that means I'd just buy a new 3D AVR) so perhaps I'll wait to see what happens when Sony updates the PS3 to 3D since I plan on watching 3D movies versus 3D games.


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19178750
> 
> 
> Due to the number of devices I have I already have a 1.3 switcher though my HDTIVO nor PS3 is connected to it and I could connect both to it but the output would still go through the AVR so I don't see the PS3 working that method either. I understand what you're saying regarding a splitter (you can pre-order 1.4HDMI splitters for @$500 so that means I'd just buy a new 3D AVR) so perhaps I'll wait to see what happens when Sony updates the PS3 to 3D since I plan on watching 3D movies versus 3D games.



Nothing is going to change when Sony releases their 3D BD update for the PS3. It too is using frame packing like the 3D game update. Your Denon will not pass the signal.

*This is a single 1080x24P frame packed 3D BD frame:*











The 3D frame from a 3D BD PS3 game would look the same but intead of twin 1920x1080 @ 24 FPS frames within the frame they would be twin 1280x720 frames within the frame @ 60 FPS


The reason why it passes 3D content from CBL or SAT is because they use frame compatible 3D formats - each 3D frame looks like an HD frame

*This is a 1920x1080i Side-by-Side frame:*











*This is a 1280x720P Top/Bottom frame*


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19178863
> 
> 
> Nothing is going to change when Sony releases their 3D BD update for the PS3. It too is using frame packing like the 3D game update. Your Denon will not pass the signal.
> 
> *This is a single 1080x24P frame packed 3D BD frame:*
> 
> 
> 
> The 3D frame from a 3D BD PS3 game would look the same but intead of twin 1920x1080 @ 24 FPS frames within the frame they would be twin 1280x720 frames within the frame @ 60 FPS
> 
> 
> The reason why it passes 3D content from CBL or SAT is because they use frame compatible 3D formats - each 3D frame looks like an HD frame



I appreciate the information however I'm still not understanding why when either the PS3 or HDTivo is plugged directly into the 3D adapter it works perfect and the HDTIvo works fine (the 3D program is native 720p top-bottom picture but is 'converted' to 1080 in the adapter) through the AVR but not the PS3 since the AVR is simply passing the signal through. I wonder if a 1.4 cable out from the AVR to the 3D adapter would have any effect.


----------



## walford

There is no longer such a thing as a HDMI 1.4 cable see the folloowing link:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx 


A/V receivers that state they are 3D capable will pass through any of the HDMI 1.4a mandatory video formats shown in Lee's post above which included 1980x2205 packed frame format, the 1080i SbS format and the 720p TnB formats.

However, if the A/V receiver does not provide EDID datat stating that it wll accept these formats then the source program will not send the content in one of these formats.

The following link states what formats the Mits 3D adapter will accept and convert and what formats such as checkerboard from a PS3 that it pass through.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/3DA...heet060810.pdf


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19179509
> 
> 
> I appreciate the information however I'm still not understanding why when either the PS3 or HDTivo is plugged directly into the 3D adapter it works perfect and the HDTIvo works fine (the 3D program is native 720p top-bottom picture but is 'converted' to 1080 in the adapter) through the AVR but not the PS3 since the AVR is simply passing the signal through. I wonder if a 1.4 cable out from the AVR to the 3D adapter would have any effect.



The 3D-1000 is designed to work with all 3D formats; frame packed and frame compatible. It converts both to the needed checkerboard 3D format that DLP RPTVs require. It's really just a 3D format converter.


The reason why the PS3 won't work when connected to your Denon is because the HDMI 1.3 RX Input chip doesn't recognize the signal that the PS3 is sending from it's now modified HDMI 1.3/1.4 TX output chip. Think of the HDMI RX and TX chips as language chips. They each have a list of languages that is embedded within them.


For example, before the 3D BD game upgrade was released, the PS3 spoke German. Your Denon can speak German, French, Spanish and English and can cross translate any of the programmed languages that reside in the HDMI RX (Input) chip. Now all of a sudden, Sony added the 3D BD game upgrade, your PS3 now speaks not only German but also Mandarin when it is in 3D BD game mode. Your Denon doesn't speak Mandarin so it doesn't understand what the PS3 in 3D BD mode is saying. It can't pass the signal from the HDMI RX chip into the receiver. There has to be an open communciation between the RX and the TX HDMI chips which isn't happening.


It does happen with the 3DC-1000 because it's HDMI RX chip does speak Mandarin.


So why does the 3D content from your TIVO make it through your Denon? Because all that 3D content is frame compatible. Your Denon thinks it's listening to Spanish which is the language of HD. The fact that there are two frames (reduced resolution so not to exceed the limits of the HD frame, either 1920x1080 or 1280x720) inside a single frame, the Denon doesn't know or care. The TIVO is speaking Spanish, it understands Spanish and completes the communication line and then sends the signal through the receiver to the HDMI TX chip which also speaks Spanish which then communicates with the 3DC-1000 HDMI RX chip which speaks Spanish and Mandarin and you get 3D images on your TV.


Next month, when Sony releases the 3D BD Movie upgrade, they now add another language to the PS3 . . . Italian. Well your Denon doesn't speak Italian. it's not on the list of languages it inderstands. But your 3DC-1000 does speak Italian.


Does that help to clarify what is going on?


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19179684
> 
> 
> The 3D-1000 is designed to work with all 3D formats; frame packed and frame compatible. It converts both to the needed checkerboard that DLP RPTVs require. It's really just a 3D format converter.
> 
> 
> The reason why the PS3 won't work when connected to your Denon is because the HDMI 1.3 RX Input chip doesn't recognize the signal that the PS3 is sending from it's now modified HDMI 1.3/1.4 TX output chip. Think of the HDMI RX and TX chips as language chips. They each have a list of languages that is embedded within them.
> 
> 
> For example, before the 3D BD game upgrade was released, the PS3 spoke German. Your Denon can speak German, French, Spanish and English and can cross translate any of the programmed languages that reside in the HDMI RX (Input) chip. Now all of a sudden, Sony added the 3D BD game upgrade, your PS3 now speaks not only German but also Mandarin when it is in 3D BD game mode. Your Denon doesn't speak Mandarin so it doesn't understand what the PS3 in 3D BD mode is saying. It can't pass the signal from the HDMI RX chip into the receiver. There has to be an open communciation between the RX and the TX HDMI chips which isn't happening.
> 
> 
> It does happen with the 3DC-1000 because it's HDMI RX chip does speak Mandarin.
> 
> 
> Does that help to clarify what is going on?



YES and thank you! I take it this means my AVR speaks Chinese which my HDTiVo speaks w/the 3D signal that allows it to pass through.

So I surmise my only option for 3D BD Movies/games will be to buy a new receiver unless some inexpensive 3D 'splitter' comes out.

I'll have to think long about that since my 3808 was not cheap and isn't that old.


----------



## walford

Lee's analogy is excellent I often though of using lanquages as analogies with resolutions as he has done but never actually tried to as he has done.

When a A/V receiver says it is "3D capable" it means that it will pass though HDMI 1.4 3D resolutions. And since Checkerboard from a PS3 is not a HDMI1.4a resolution a "3D" capable A/V receiver may or may not pass it through


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19179727
> 
> 
> YES and thank you! I take it this means my AVR speaks Chinese which my HDTiVo speaks w/the 3D signal that allows it to pass through.
> 
> So I surmise my only option for 3D BD Movies/games will be to buy a new receiver unless some inexpensive 3D 'splitter' comes out.
> 
> I'll have to think long about that since my 3808 was not cheap and isn't that old.



See EDIT/Addition I made concerning your TIVO. And from this post, it looks like you do understand now.










What you really need is what is on the Panasonic BDT300 and BDT350 3D BD players. It has dual HDMI outputs:












If you have a 1.4 AVR, then you use the MAIN output only. It sends both the 3D video and Audio (HD and Digital). The second HDMI output called SUB only sends the Audio (HD and Digital) and works in conjunction with the MAIN output. This allows you to attach two HDMI cables out from the player, the SUB goes to a 1.3 AVR for audio and the MAIN goes to the 3DTV for video. This way you can decode DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD (HD) along with DD5.1 and DTS (Digital).


Someone is going to make a seperate box that does this. Maybe at CEDIA (2 weeks away) there will be an announcement or maybe at CES in January.


The "hassel" of having to switch audio and video seperately can be overcome by using a universal remote that can do macros


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19179833
> 
> 
> See EDIT/Addition I made concerning your TIVO. And from this post, it looks like you do understand now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you really need is what is on the Panasonic BDT300 and BDT350 3D BD players. It has dual HDMI outputs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a 1.4 AVR, then you use the MAIN output only. It sends both the 3D video and Audio (HD and Digital). The second HDMI output called SUB only sends the Audio (HD and Digital) and works in conjunction with the MAIN output. This allows you to attach two HDMI cables out from the player, the SUB goes to a 1.3 AVR for audio and the MAIN goes to the 3DTV for video. This way you can decode DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD (HD) along with DD5.1 and DTS (Digital).
> 
> 
> Someone is going to make a seperate box that does this. Maybe at CEDIA (2 weeks away) there will be an announcement or maybe at CES in January.
> 
> 
> The "hassel" of having to switch audio and video seperately can be overcome by using a universal remote that can do macros



Now I'm confused again by the prior post and yours. The adapter only accepts one input and one output. Unless my AVR can pass-thru the 3D signal I don't know what else to do since I have the HDTivo and PS3 as outputs to connect. An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through!?!


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19179877
> 
> 
> Now I'm confused again by the prior post and yours. The adapter only accepts one input and one output. Unless my AVR can pass-thru the 3D signal I don't know what else to do since I have the HDTivo and PS3 as outputs to connect. An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through!?!



OK, you have a total of 3 inputs to the 3DC-1000:


1. Denon AVR

2. HDTivo

3. PS3


You have already stated that the HDTivo will run through your Denon and transmit both HD and 3D from CBL/SAT. That leaves you with 2 inputs:


1. Denon AVR/HDTivo

2. PS3


You only have one input on the 3DC-1000. That is why I showed you that 4X1 HDMI switch. It expands the single input of the 3DC-1000 to 4 inputs. You only need 2. That leaves 2 for future expansion. The only issue at hand is will that switch accomodate the PS3. Is it's 7.5Gbps fast enough to handle the bandwith of the PS3 in both 3D BD game mode and 3D BD movie mode. I think it will but I am not 100% sure. When they introduced HDMI 1.4, it has the same max speed as 1.3 already had - 10.2Gbps. they didn't change the speed.


As far as that statement: "An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through" it won't pertain to you. There has been wild speculation that when the PS3 receives it's 3D BD Movie upgrade it will have an output option that allows the PS3 to convert frame packed 1080x24P 3D BD info to Checkerboard 3d format. the Panasonic BDT300/350 has this feature. So for those DLP-RPTV owners that only have that player, you don't need a 3DC-1000 if all you intend to watch are 3D BDs.


IF the PS3 has that option (highly doubtful), you just don't select it.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19180013
> 
> 
> OK, you have a total of 3 inputs to the 3DC-1000:
> 
> 
> 1. Denon AVR
> 
> 2. HDTivo
> 
> 3. PS3
> 
> 
> You have already stated that the HDTivo will run through your Denon and transmit both HD and 3D from CBL/SAT. That leaves you with 2 inputs:
> 
> 
> 1. Denon AVR/HDTivo
> 
> 2. PS3
> 
> 
> You only have one input on the 3DC-1000. That is why I showed you that 4X1 HDMI switch. It expands the single input of the 3DC-1000 to 4 inputs. You only need 2. That leaves 2 for future expansion. The only issue at hand is will that switch accomodate the PS3. Is it's 7.5Gbps fast enough to handle the bandwith of the PS3 in both 3D BD game mode and 3D BD movie mode. I think it will but I am not 100% sure. When they introduced HDMI 1.4, it has the same max speed as 1.3 already had - 10.2Gbps. they didn't change the speed.
> 
> 
> As far as that statement: "An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through" it won't pertain to you. There has been wild speculation that when the PS3 receives it's 3D BD Movie upgrade it will have an output option that allows the PS3 to convert frame packed 1080x24P 3D BD info to Checkerboard 3d format. the Panasonic BDT300/350 has this feature. So for those DLP-RPTV owners that only have that player, you don't need a 3DC-1000 if all you intend to watch are 3D BDs.
> 
> 
> IF the PS3 has that option (highly doubtful), you just don't select it.



Thanks for the information however since no one has yet to confirm they have a set-up that works for multiple sources like my need and equipment I'll hold off on buying anything until the PS3 gets the update and then I'll see what works and doesn't (or if someone else has the same/similar set-up and has a working configuration).


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19181088
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information however since no one has yet to confirm they have a set-up that works for multiple sources like my need and equipment I'll hold off on buying anything until the PS3 gets the update and then I'll see what works and doesn't (or if someone else has the same/similar set-up and has a working configuration).



What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19182438
> 
> 
> What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?



Nothing "magical" at all - just wait to see what other people do with their set up since I know many people have the same AVR as I, HDTivo, and a PS3 so I'll see if anyone comes up with a workable solution before spending big coin on anything new.


----------



## tornadog

I went thru all 4 pages, but couldnt figure out if theres a solution for this or not. My setup.


bd-c5900/ps3/360/uverse STB/htpc -> HK AVR254-> PN50c7000


----------



## sanderdvd

I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:


I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?


----------



## zxa

if you just want the tv speaker on samsung a750 serie...if you plug blu-ray to 3d adapter to gefen to tv does the tv speaker will work??


thanks....


update....now my tv speaker work...with the 3dc-1000+gefen+HL61A750...


----------



## Barrok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19182438
> 
> 
> What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?



I have a SC-25 AVR (HDMI 1.3) and my comcast box and ps3 goes into it as well as my samsung c7900 (dual hdmi's).


My ps3 plays 3d games fine, and my comcast box does 3d tv fine.. but the samsung won't play 3d movies fine without me hooking up dual hdmi's.


Now i haven't read the whole thread but that sounds weird. I am also waiting to see if hte PS3 3D movie update allows for me to play 3d movies with my HDMI 1.3 receiver.


----------



## Bluskinsfan21

would it be possible to collect a rough list of TVs that allow for 3d GAMING to be displayed via hdmi 1.3 receivers? I do not think I would be the sole representation of people who don't really care about 3d movies, but is excited about 3d gaming.


So far... panny vt25... right?


----------



## Barrok

My samsung pnc8000 does. Even an option for that in the options but not sure what it does.


----------



## walford

The Samsung 3D TVs and all 3D ready RP DLPs support Checkerboard 3D format from PS3 games. The Panasonic 3D TVs do not and I don't beleive the Sony's do either


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd* /forum/post/19199138
> 
> 
> I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:
> 
> 
> I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?



No ideas anyone?


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd* /forum/post/19199138
> 
> 
> I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:
> 
> 
> I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?


*Are you talking about this?*


HDMI ASPECT

Set HDMI ASPECT in accordance with the screen

size of the television connected to this unit.

Select THROUGH or 16:9NORM using the 1 or 2

cursor buttons.

THROUGH:

Output is in the same screen size as the input.

16:9 NORM:

Output includes black bands on the left and right of

the television screen.

Notes:

This setting is enabled only when a 480i/576i signal

is input and HDMI RESOLUTION is set to other

than THROUGH, or when a 480p/576p signal is

input.

The aspect ratio cannot be changed when the input

video signal is 720p or 1080i.

This setting depends on network settings when a

network is selected.


Page 37

http://us.marantz.com/AV8003_DFU_U_EN.pdf 


If so, that isn't going to help with 3D bluray, either games or movies


----------



## sanderdvd

thxz for your reply Lee.


So no 1.3 HDMI receiver owners will be able to have 3d when connecting a 3d capable display to the receiver?


Only option is to get eg. the Pana 350?


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd* /forum/post/19216309
> 
> 
> thxz for your reply Lee.














> Quote:
> So no 1.3 HDMI receiver owners will be able to have 3d when connecting a 3d capable display to the receiver?



For 3D games and movies from Bluray - pretty much.



> Quote:
> Only option is to get eg. the Pana 350?



Or the 300 if you want to have HD audio (DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD)


Have you given Marantz a call and discussed this with them? That is a very expensive piece of equipment (IMO).


----------



## walford

3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.

From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19216533
> 
> 
> 3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.
> 
> From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.




I dont understand......sorry










Should I give Marantz a call like Lee said maybe


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19216533
> 
> 
> 3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.
> 
> From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.



But the PS3 uses the 720p frame packed for games. Avatar the game itself is programmed for checkerboard, but there's no guarantee that the other games will be, and I doubt the Sony games will.


My 1.3 AVR (pioneer something 919) plays PS3 3D games; I doubt it will play 3D blu rays but I'll find out tomorrow for sure.


----------



## walford

My error I guess I thought that the PS3 used 720p frame sequential format when not using 3D Checkerboard mode,

The games discussed in the following link are no available:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/15/3d...via-purchases/


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *THE DU3C3* /forum/post/18682218
> 
> 
> There is no way to watch 3D Blu-ray through a HDMI 1.3 AVR. As soon as you try to start the movie it automatically reverts to the 2D version of the film. The chipset in the AVR cannot process the 3D codec.





This is not entirely true in my case. Although I don't have everything 100% either.


I am processing 3D Blu-ray via PS3 (fw update 3.50) and I can process 3D through my Yamaha 1.3 HDMI receiver (which routes to the Mitsu 3d adapter then to my tv). But I cannot get any sound. 3D Video works fine however.


If I instruct the receiver to send audio to both the amp + Tv I can get the tv speakers to play the audio but of course only 2 channel. It also causes the video to skip and not play smoothly. If I go back and set HDMI audio to receiver only, the video doesn't skip but no audio. No audio is even being sent to the receiver.


Thoughts?



edit- to further elaborate on this "no sound but 3d video is fine issue"-


When playing the Disney 3D Blu-ray demo disc via PS3 with 3.5 FW,

routed as such - PS3 > 1.3 AVR > 3DC-1000 > 3D TV


when checking the signal info from the receiver (the front panel shows no audio being sent) - but the "Signal Info" screen states-



Format - (Blinking) PCM , ---, PCM, No Signal, PCM, ---, No Signal, etc.

Channel - (Blinking) 3/2/0.1, ---, etc

Sampling Freq. - (Blinking) 48kHz, ---, etc

Bitrate (solid) ---



IN - 1080p

OUT - 1080p


edit 2-


By limiting the ps3 display output to 720 I am able to play the disney 3d demo with SOUND , but no 3d video..


Too bad I cannot manually set the PS3 to enable 3D display.. you have to go through the Automatic command which then it will set the res at 1080... wtf.. sony.. If I were able to set the display to 720 AND enable 3D display....


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19216356
> 
> 
> For 3D games and movies from Bluray - pretty much.



I'm playing 3D games via PS3 through my 1.3 HDMI receiver just fine. What are you saying is the issue? 3D games on Blu-ray? Everything I'm playing so far has been hdd based off of the PSN. And it works flawlessly in 3D.


----------



## Barrok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19222983
> 
> 
> I'm playing 3D games via PS3 through my 1.3 HDMI receiver just fine. What are you saying is the issue? 3D games on Blu-ray? Everything I'm playing so far has been hdd based off of the PSN. And it works flawlessly in 3D.



I play games just fine as well, but I don't have any 1080p 3d game demos. I am wondering if thats where my issue lies, trying to watch a 1080p 3d movie. I wish Sony would let me state that my TV is only a 720p3d TV and then see if it would work that way.


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Barrok* /forum/post/19223053
> 
> 
> I play games just fine as well, but I don't have any 1080p 3d game demos. I am wondering if thats where my issue lies, trying to watch a 1080p 3d movie. I wish Sony would let me state that my TV is only a 720p3d TV and then see if it would work that way.




Can you not simply un-check 1080 from your display options menu via PS3?


I'm not sure I follow your "try playing a 1080 3d game" statement.


Sony knocked down their 3d res to 720. Although I believe Super Star Dust was 1080p prior to that happening (regardless it's 720p now). I'm not sure which games are what resolution b/c I'm upconverting to 1080 anyway through my avr.


----------



## Barrok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19223077
> 
> 
> Can you not simply un-check 1080 from your display options menu via PS3?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow your "try playing a 1080 3d game" statement.
> 
> 
> Sony knocked down their 3d res to 720. Although I believe Super Star Dust was 1080p prior to that happening. I'm not sure which games are what resolution b/c I'm upconverting to 1080 anyway through my avr.



So there aren't any 1080p 3d video games? Ok that makes me feel better.


And no, the only way to get 3D recognized by the PS3 is to do the "automatic" resolution settings in the Display options. If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Barrok* /forum/post/19223100
> 
> 
> So there aren't any 1080p 3d video games? Ok that makes me feel better.
> 
> 
> And no, the only way to get 3D recognized by the PS3 is to do the "automatic" resolution settings in the Display options. If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.



I just ran into the same problem..







WHY on earth can't sony simply allow us to select manually that we have a 3d display. Then we could choose 720 and 3d.


I just set it to 720 and I had sound on the blu ray which leads me to believe it's a limitation on the ps3. Hence why they limited the 3d down to 720.


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Barrok* /forum/post/19223100
> 
> 
> If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.



ps. I believe all 3D games are 720 now.


I can play games through my 1.3 AVR just fine. (I'm guessing because they are forcing the ps3 to output 720 3d.)


I cannot play 3d blu-ray (1080) because the ps3 sees 1080 and forces it to stay there. Once the 3d is active, I lose all audio. (not enough bandwidth? AVR not 3d capable?, HDMI not high speed?)


Therefore I can play 720 3d and have audio, but not play 1080 3d (blu-ray) and have audio.



Am I making sense or just confusing myself further?










Would us folks with 1.3 AVR's be able to play 3d Blu-ray if we could limit teh res to 720 and manually select 3d display type?


----------



## Barrok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19223217
> 
> 
> I just ran into the same problem..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY on earth can't sony simply allow us to select manually that we have a 3d display. Then we could choose 720 and 3d.
> 
> 
> I just set it to 720 and I had sound on the blu ray which leads me to believe it's a limitation on the ps3. Hence why they limited the 3d down to 720.



Agreed, if we could just select that we have a 3D capable TV that does 720p we would at least get 3d bluray (and i bet audio since the games do) even if it isn't 1080p. But meh, it is what it is.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19222983
> 
> 
> I'm playing 3D games via PS3 through my 1.3 HDMI receiver just fine. What are you saying is the issue? 3D games on Blu-ray? Everything I'm playing so far has been hdd based off of the PSN. And it works flawlessly in 3D.



Do you have a 3D ready TV or are you using the 3D converter (like the post above you mentioned)? I ask since I have the 3D converter to my DLP and no, PS3 3D games do not pass-thru my 1.3 reciever - just audio.

My 4 x 2 switch arrived yesterday so this weekend I'm going to try it.

But I just read the PS3 3D for BD will NOT allow HD audio output.


From the Sony PS3 Update page:


• When Dolby TrueHD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in Dolby Digital during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.

• When DTS-HD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in DTS during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19223244
> 
> 
> Do you have a 3D ready TV or are you using the 3D converter (like the post above you mentioned)?



Yes, I am using a 3D Ready TV (mitsu) and the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 start kit.


Games play just fine but I cannot play 3D Blu-ray with my 1.3 AVR. I just get 3d video without any audio being received. I edited my post above to contain more info that the receiver "Signal Info" screen provided.


It seems that when I am watching a 3D Blu-ray (passing through 1.3 AVR) I am getting full 1080p 3d video, but no audio is getting "locked in". It is finding and losing it multiple times per second. I don't know if this is from not confirming that I have high speed hdmi cables, not using a 1.4 avr or ??




> Quote:
> I ask since I have the 3D converter to my DLP and no, PS3 3D games do not pass-thru my 1.3 reciever - just audio.



that sucks.







I've been playing 3d games since July with my 1.3 avr. Video and audio (7.1) works great) FWIW, I am using a Yamaha 1065 AVR.



> Quote:
> My 4 x 2 switch arrived yesterday so this weekend I'm going to try it.
> 
> But I just read the PS3 3D for BD will NOT allow HD audio output.
> 
> 
> From the Sony PS3 Update page:
> 
> 
> When Dolby TrueHD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in Dolby Digital during playback of Blu-ray 3D content.
> 
> When DTS-HD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in DTS during playback of Blu-ray 3D content.



Correct but you can still enjoy standard dolby digital/DTS. I know this disappointed me thoroughly as well.


I guess if I want the full deal I'll have to purchase a stand alone blu-ray player. No worries, I'm happy the PS3 does 3D games well.


Or could I simply upgrade the AVR to a 1.4 3D capable model? (sorry if this is what the thread is all about) I suppose that would be the easiest solution.. except I just bought this AVR last spring.


----------



## flickhtguru

3D Video and HDMI


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok I might be getting a 73" Mitsubishi DLP TV, from my parents because they want the 82". The 73" TV that I might get is 3D ready and has HDMI 1.3a. I'm looking at also getting a new surround receiver from Onkyo, I was looking at the TX-NR807 which says nothing about 3D compatible and it has HDMI 1.3a. The new TX-NR808 says its 3D ready and it has HDMI 1.4.


Do I need the 808 with the 1.4 to get 3D video? Can I get the 807 with 1.3a and get 3D video? (I understand that it has to be connected to a 3D video source.)


I want to get everything with compatible technology and want to know what I need to have to get 3D video.


I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. I'm also looking at getting the Sony BD-S470 which is a 3D player, the specs for it say HDMI 1.3a. So basically I would have 1.3 from Blu-ray player to receiver and 1.3 from receiver to TV.


So where is HDMI 1.4 used? Is it needed?


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flickhtguru* /forum/post/19275235
> 
> 
> 3D Video and HDMI
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Ok I might be getting a 73" Mitsubishi DLP TV, from my parents because they want the 82". The 73" TV that I might get is 3D ready and has HDMI 1.3a. I'm looking at also getting a new surround receiver from Onkyo, I was looking at the TX-NR807 which says nothing about 3D compatible and it has HDMI 1.3a. The new TX-NR808 says its 3D ready and it has HDMI 1.4.
> 
> 
> Do I need the 808 with the 1.4 to get 3D video? Can I get the 807 with 1.3a and get 3D video? (I understand that it has to be connected to a 3D video source.)
> 
> 
> I want to get everything with compatible technology and want to know what I need to have to get 3D video.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. I'm also looking at getting the Sony BD-S470 which is a 3D player, the specs for it say HDMI 1.3a. So basically I would have 1.3 from Blu-ray player to receiver and 1.3 from receiver to TV.
> 
> 
> So where is HDMI 1.4 used? Is it needed?



You are going to def. need a 1.4 AVR if you want to do Blu-ray 3D.


I can do everything BUT Blu-ray 3D Audio with my 1.3a AVR. The sound won't be recognized with 1.3a.


3D games I can do all day long (Audio and Video).


IF you want to be sure and be future 'ready' go with 1.4 (1.4a)


----------



## Daanbos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19276324
> 
> 
> You are going to def. need a 1.4 AVR if you want to do Blu-ray 3D.
> 
> 
> I can do everything BUT Blu-ray 3D Audio with my 1.3a AVR. The sound won't be recognized with 1.3a.
> 
> 
> 3D games I can do all day long (Audio and Video).
> 
> 
> IF you want to be sure and be future 'ready' go with 1.4 (1.4a)



Hi, I've been struggling with this for some time now but seems you give clarity.

I also have no sound when playing 3d bluray from my PS3 connected to my 1.3 receiver but the picture is perfect.

So, your absolutely sure that I would need a 1.4 receiver?

The weird things is that when I play downloaded 3d content from my mediaplayer, also connected to the 1.3 receiver, I get 3d picture and HD sound.

Will I also need to purchase 1.4 hdmi cables when I would be a 1.4 receiver?


----------



## pmalter0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daanbos* /forum/post/19277108
> 
> 
> Hi, I've been struggling with this for some time now but seems you give clarity.
> 
> I also have no sound when playing 3d bluray from my PS3 connected to my 1.3 receiver but the picture is perfect.
> 
> So, your absolutely sure that I would need a 1.4 receiver?
> 
> The weird things is that when I play downloaded 3d content from my mediaplayer, also connected to the 1.3 receiver, I get 3d picture and HD sound.
> 
> Will I also need to purchase 1.4 hdmi cables when I would be a 1.4 receiver?



Any high speed (1.3) cable is fine. Also you can run the digital audio to your 1.3 receiver; BD DTS and Dolby are arguably indistinguishable from lossless.


----------



## walford

A 1.3 recdeiver can not play the audio for 3D content when it is received in the HDMI 1.4a packed doulble buffer format which is what the PS3 is outputting. It can play the audio from all of the other HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.


----------



## Daanbos

Thx.

So..if I would be a 'normal' 3d bluray player and connect that to my 1.3 receiver..would that work? Or the same issue as with the PS3?


----------



## flickhtguru

Ok I understand that you guys are saying I need an a/v receiver with 1.4a. But If both the TV and the blu-ray player are 1.3a where do you use the 1.4a cable? Or is it just the same cable?


----------



## walford

There is no longer such a thing as as 1.4 cable. Any High Speed HDMI cable can handle all of the HDMI 1.4a 3D signal protocols see:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx 


Your PS3 will play normal HD BR disks or 3D disk in 2D mode with audio just fine with your HDMI 1.3 receiver.


----------



## Daanbos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19279436
> 
> 
> There is no longer such a thing as as 1.4 cable. Any High Speed HDMI cable can handle all of the HDMI 1.4a 3D signal protocols see:
> 
> http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx
> 
> 
> Your PS3 will play normal HD BR disks or 3D disk in 2D mode with audio just fine with your HDMI 1.3 receiver.



Yep, I know..but it's 3d blu ray I want to play and that seems not possible with sound so I'll try to connect the ps3 with an optical cable...hope that works


----------



## pmalter0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19277600
> 
> 
> A 1.3 recdeiver can not play the audio for 3D content when it is received in the HDMI 1.4a packed doulble buffer format which is what the PS3 is outputting.



It can if you run a digital audio cable to the receiver.


----------



## flickhtguru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19279436
> 
> 
> There is no longer such a thing as as 1.4 cable. Any High Speed HDMI cable can handle all of the HDMI 1.4a 3D signal protocols see:
> 
> http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx



Thanks for clearing that up for me walford. I just wanted to make sure what I need before its too late. I'll wait for a refurbished Onkyo 808 to come on sale then. I could get a refurbished 807 for $527 so I'm hoping by Christmas the 808 will be available for around that price.


----------



## botzos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daanbos* /forum/post/19279599
> 
> 
> Yep, I know..but it's 3d blu ray I want to play and that seems not possible with sound so I'll try to connect the ps3 with an optical cable...hope that works



Please confirm that by using the PS3 through your 1.3 AV receiver you get 3D image in your display.

Have you also tried to use the optical in your PS3 through your 1.3 AV receiver so as to at least get simple DD or DTS sound?


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *botzos* /forum/post/19290202
> 
> 
> Please confirm that by using the PS3 through your 1.3 AV receiver you get 3D image in your display.
> 
> Have you also tried to use the optical in your PS3 through your 1.3 AV receiver so as to at least get simple DD or DTS sound?



This will probably vary AVR to AVR. For my AVR, a Pioneer 919, I can play PS3 3D games with sound, but it will not show 3D blu ray movies, so I have to bypass the receiver with HDMI and get sound with an optical cable. The PS3 can't do lossless audio in 3D anyway so I'm not losing anything (except the hassle of disconnecting/connecting HDMI and optical cables).


----------



## Daanbos

Yes I confirm that I have excellent 3D image via my 1.3 Marantz SR5003 receiver.

It's the sound that is missing so I'll have a try to get sound via optical


----------



## illthreat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daanbos* /forum/post/19291636
> 
> 
> Yes I confirm that I have excellent 3D image via my 1.3 Marantz SR5003 receiver.
> 
> It's the sound that is missing so I'll have a try to get sound via optical



Same situation with me and the Yamaha RX-V1065 AVR. I will either run a optical cable for audio or replace the AVR with a RX-A1000 (1.4 HDMI).. I hate being shorted on the audio so I'm leaning towards a new AVR (again)...


At least I can sell the 1065 and 663 I have sitting here to recoup some $$


----------



## botzos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daanbos* /forum/post/19291636
> 
> 
> Yes I confirm that I have excellent 3D image via my 1.3 Marantz SR5003 receiver.
> 
> It's the sound that is missing so I'll have a try to get sound via optical



Let us know if that works.

I have a similar AVR, the Marantz SR6004


----------



## pmalter0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *illthreat* /forum/post/19293105
> 
> 
> Same situation with me and the Yamaha RX-V1065 AVR. I will either run a optical cable for audio or replace the AVR with a RX-A1000 (1.4 HDMI).. I hate being shorted on the audio so I'm leaning towards a new AVR (again)...
> 
> 
> At least I can sell the 1065 and 663 I have sitting here to recoup some $$



For all of you thinking of spending beaucoup bucks on a new 1.4 receiver, please be aware that the BD bit rate for lossy Dolby and DTS is 50 to 100% greater than it is on DVD, and blind testing has supported the view that it's audibly indistinguishable from lossless.


----------



## elixxxer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmalter0* /forum/post/19295853
> 
> 
> For all of you thinking of spending beaucoup bucks on a new 1.4 receiver, please be aware that the BD bit rate for lossy Dolby and DTS is 50 to 100% greater than it is on DVD, and blind testing has supported the view that it's audibly indistinguishable from lossless.



And that higher bitrate can pass through an optical cable? I was not aware of this, thank you for the information. I haven't tried running 3D through my receiver yet (Onkyo RC180 to Samsung PN50C7000), so I'm going to try that tonight and if the audio fails, I'll just run a toslink.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elixxxer* /forum/post/19409264
> 
> 
> And that higher bitrate can pass through an optical cable? I was not aware of this, thank you for the information. I haven't tried running 3D through my receiver yet (Onkyo RC180 to Samsung PN50C7000), so I'm going to try that tonight and if the audio fails, I'll just run a toslink.



Depending on what your using to play your 3D BD you can use toslink for HD audio. Slim PS3's for example or dual HDMI output BD players (one dedicated to audio, the other video).


----------



## Frohlich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19409275
> 
> 
> Depending on what your using to play your 3D BD you can use toslink for HD audio. Slim PS3's for example or dual HDMI output BD players (one dedicated to audio, the other video).



ARe you saying with the dula HDMI output blu ray player (such as Panasonic). I can run both HDMI into the AV receiver (one for sound and one for video) and get it to work for 3d blue ray movies. Or does the HDMI audio have to go to the receiver and the HDMI video have to run directly into the TV?


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frohlich* /forum/post/19415680
> 
> 
> ARe you saying with the dula HDMI output blu ray player (such as Panasonic). I can run both HDMI into the AV receiver (one for sound and one for video) and get it to work for 3d blue ray movies. Or does the HDMI audio have to go to the receiver and the HDMI video have to run directly into the TV?



If your receiver can pass-thru 3D BD than you'd only use the one HDMI out. If your receiver won't pass it through you'd have one HDMI for audio go to the AVR while the video HDMI go to your TV or 3D adapter.


----------



## walford

The Blu-ray disk players output 3D in HDMI 1.4a dual buffer packed frame format. From the following the link you will finc that the audio is contained in the blanking interval between frame buffers so only a HDMI 1.4 capable A/V receiver can extract the sound.

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19416336
> 
> 
> The Blu-ray disk players output 3D in HDMI 1.4a dual buffer packed frame format. From the following the link you will finc that the audio is contained in the blanking interval between frame buffers so only a HDMI 1.4 capable A/V receiver can extract the sound.
> 
> http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/



Not true. Note that he discusses (as I did) the dual-HDMI outputs on the Panny 3DBD that allow your existing 1.3 AVR to play the HD audio. You can also do this with the Samsung C5900 via 7.1 component or the C6900 that also has dual HDMI outputs.


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19420403
> 
> 
> Not true. Note that he discusses (as I did) the dual-HDMI outputs on the Panny 3DBD that allow your existing 1.3 AVR to play the HD audio. You can also do this with the Samsung C5900 via 7.1 component or the C6900 that also has dual HDMI outputs.



You misundertood, of course any player that can output audio only over HDMI to a 1.3 A/V receiver will also work. I was refering to A/V receivers when they were the only device receivng the HDMI 1.4a 3D packed frame format from the BR player.


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19420403
> 
> 
> Not true. Note that he discusses (as I did) the dual-HDMI outputs on the Panny 3DBD that allow your existing 1.3 AVR to play the HD audio. You can also do this with the Samsung C5900 via 7.1 component or the C6900 that also has dual HDMI outputs.



You misundertood, of course any player that can output audio only over HDMI to a 1.3 A/V receiver will also work. I was refering to A/V receivers when they were the only device receivng the HDMI 1.4a 3D packed frame format from the BR player.


----------



## jayoldschool

Working for me. 60GB fat PS3-Pioneer VSX 918-Mitsubishi 3DA1-Samsung 67" LED DLP (custom EDID on HDMI 3). All connected by HDMI only, sound is great, 3D works perfectly.


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayoldschool* /forum/post/19423927
> 
> 
> Working for me. 60GB fat PS3-Pioneer VSX 918-Mitsubishi 3DA1-Samsung 67" LED DLP (custom EDID on HDMI 3). All connected by HDMI only, sound is great, 3D works perfectly.



Both 3D games and movies? My 919 works with games but not 3D blu ray through the PS3.


----------



## walford

The 918 does not support HDMI 1.4 3D packed frame content which is the output format from the PS3 when playing 3D Blu-Ray disks in 3D mode. And as best I can determiine the 919 does not either. They may pass it through but they cannot extract the audio when then they do.


----------



## jayoldschool

Games and downloaded vids only so far. Can't find a 3D BD to rent. Only got my set up working on Saturday. Not a surprise to hear it won't work with BD. I didn't expect it to work at all! Having it work with games is a big bonus, I think.


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19425429
> 
> 
> The 918 does not support HDMI 1.4 3D packed frame content which is the output format from the PS3 when playing 3D Blu-Ray disks in 3D mode. And as best I can determiine the 919 does not either. They may pass it through but they cannot extract the audio when then they do.



It doesn't pass anything through on 3D blu ray; I would've been extremely happy if it passed video and not audio since I could just use optical. PS3 doesn't pass through HD audio in 3d anyway.


----------



## botzos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milmanias* /forum/post/19426892
> 
> 
> It doesn't pass anything through on 3D blu ray; I would've been extremely happy if it passed video and not audio since I could just use optical. PS3 doesn't pass through HD audio in 3d anyway.



But can you pass only the video through the HDMI and only the audio (SD) in optical by using PS3 settings? Would this work?


----------



## walford

Some HDMI 1.3 A/V receiver do pass through the 1920x2205 Packed buffer HDMI 1.4a 3D formatted content completly untouched even if they can not do anything with the audio. I don't think any A/V receiver would whil passing through these buffers untouched would at the same time accept audio via optical from any source.


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *botzos* /forum/post/19429235
> 
> 
> But can you pass only the video through the HDMI and only the audio (SD) in optical by using PS3 settings? Would this work?



Not on the 919. I have to take the HDMI and plug it directly to the Mits 3D adapter, and optical to the AVR. 3D through the AVR works fine for games on the PS3, just not blu ray movies, on this receiver.


----------



## abhayz

I am getting a Sony 55HX800 and have Ps3 and Onkyo Ht-S6200, I guess Audio wont work with the onkyo if I connect it thru it. I hope some one posts an HDMI splitter that would work (not too expensive







)


----------



## flea333

I'm getting PS3 for use with the Sony 55" LED 3D and my Denon 3808ci.

Anybody know if I will be able to use both HDMI outputs on the PS3 to use audio from one and video to the tv?

Or will I have to use optical for the 3D viewing with HDMI direct to TV and for all other content use HDMI through another receiver input then to TV?


----------



## flea333

Looks like a 3D HDMI splitter is out...but then again it wont matter for my Ps3.

I hope PS3 starts outputting TrueHD soon. Also be nice if they could use both outputs simultaneously for audio/video.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Power-S.../dp/B003WJ92NC


----------



## walford

The firmware upgrade for the PS3 to blu-ray 3D disks and ouutput in tru HDMI 1.4a 3d Packed frame format was released this past June.


----------



## jimwhite

Life is grand









I set up my Panny BD350 with the two HDMI cables, one to Panny 54VT25, one to my Onkyo TX-705 rcvr. No sound via the Onkyo unless I enable video on the HDMI sub connection. Plop in a 3d BluRay and it tells me I have to turn off the video on the sub connection... beautiful 3D with no sound


----------



## henningdalgaard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flea333* /forum/post/19448521
> 
> 
> Looks like a 3D HDMI splitter is out
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Power-S.../dp/B003WJ92NC



So would this splitter solve/save my onkyo 606 3d issue? Can I simply split the signal from my 3d player and have one cable to my receiver and another to my TV? Will the onkyo be able to extract the sound?


----------



## docnesh

I wanted to do that as I own the onkyo tx nr807 (hdmi 1.3a). But everyone I asked said it won't work due tobaudio syncing with the video, as well as possible hdcp issues with some splitters. Please let us know what you learn.


----------



## Wryker

All,

I have the 4 x 2 switch/splitter noted in my prior post and one HDMI out to my receiver and the other to my 3D Adapter allows me 3D PS3 games w/HD audio, 3D via Comcast/ESPN3D through my HDTivo, 3D BD through the PS3 (but only optical audio since I have a first gen "fat" PS3), and 3D BD through my Sammy C6900 and HD audio (using 7.1 component audio to my Denon). It works... all of it..3D for PS3 games, BD movies, and ESPN3D.


----------



## abhayz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19474711
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I have the 4 x 2 switch/splitter noted in my prior post and one HDMI out to my receiver and the other to my 3D Adapter allows me 3D PS3 games w/HD audio, 3D via Comcast/ESPN3D through my HDTivo, 3D BD through the PS3 (but only optical audio since I have a first gen "fat" PS3), and 3D BD through my Sammy C6900 and HD audio (using 7.1 component audio to my Denon). It works... all of it..3D for PS3 games, BD movies, and ESPN3D.



Wryker, can you post the link to to the splitter product, I went through previous pages I couldnt find any link. Thanks


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abhayz* /forum/post/19476366
> 
> 
> Wryker, can you post the link to to the splitter product, I went through previous pages I couldnt find any link. Thanks



You're in luck - though you could have searched for just my posts I have an email from Monoprice (since I just got my replacement due to my original one stopped outputting video): 6415 4x2 True Matrix High Speed HDMI Powered Switch w/ Remote Controller (HDMI x.v. Color) (Quantity: 1)

Last night tested out my PCH A1110, Xbox 360, HDTiVo(Comcast), HDDVD player, Sammy C6900, PS3, Wii, and PS2 to make sure allllll play 'nice'...and they do...


----------



## gs32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19474711
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> 3D BD through the PS3 (but only optical audio since I have a first gen "fat" PS3).



What do you mean? Are newer PS3's able to do 3D BD w/ HD Audio that you know of?


I'm trying to accomplish the same type of thing with my Onkyo TX-SR875. I want to be able to still do HD lossless audio via HDMI and 3D/2D direct to TV.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gs32* /forum/post/19476847
> 
> 
> What do you mean? Are newer PS3's able to do 3D BD w/ HD Audio that you know of?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to accomplish the same type of thing with my Onkyo TX-SR875. I want to be able to still do HD lossless audio via HDMI and 3D/2D direct to TV.



The newer Slims can out HD audio over toslink.


----------



## BSTNFAN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19476863
> 
> 
> The newer Slims can out HD audio over toslink.



Incorrect...The slim can bitstream HD audio, but it must use HDMI to do it. No PS3 (including the slims) will do HD audio with a 3DBD.


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/19474711
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I have the 4 x 2 switch/splitter noted in my prior post and one HDMI out to my receiver and the other to my 3D Adapter allows me *3D PS3 games w/HD audio*, ..., 3D BD through the PS3 (but only optical audio since I have a first gen "fat" PS3), .... It works...



Wryker, thanks for the post. I plan to buy a 4x2 splitter since I have a similar setup (Mits DLP, 3D adapter, pio receiver that only does hdmi 1.3, fat PS3).


1 question though - in order to get HD audio with 3D games, you need to pass audio through HDMI, do you have both outputs of the 4x2 switch set to the PS3 input? If so, is there an order you have to turn them on in ? Some of the splitters I've seen will do "least common denominator" for the audio, and since my TV only does stereo, that's what the PS3 would send. How does this 4x2 matrix switch behave when both outputs have same input ? Are there any audio sync problems?


If it doesn't work, I guess I can just use 5.1 audio through toslink (instead of 7.1 through hdmi) when playing games in 3D mode. The Wipeout 3D demo has an audio test in the setup, so I can verify how many channels come through.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *threepercentmilk* /forum/post/19485732
> 
> 
> Wryker, thanks for the post. I plan to buy a 4x2 splitter since I have a similar setup (Mits DLP, 3D adapter, pio receiver that only does hdmi 1.3, fat PS3).
> 
> 
> 1 question though - in order to get HD audio with 3D games, you need to pass audio through HDMI, do you have both outputs of the 4x2 switch set to the PS3 input? If so, is there an order you have to turn them on in ? Some of the splitters I've seen will do "least common denominator" for the audio, and since my TV only does stereo, that's what the PS3 would send. How does this 4x2 matrix switch behave when both outputs have same input ? Are there any audio sync problems?
> 
> 
> If it doesn't work, I guess I can just use 5.1 audio through toslink (instead of 7.1 through hdmi) when playing games in 3D mode. The Wipeout 3D demo has an audio test in the setup, so I can verify how many channels come through.




I'll keep it short after my trials and tribulations. I had the switch/splitter this weekend STOP outputting video - took me a while but I hit the "reset" button on the back and everything was back to normal. Right now only the PS3 has an HDMI in and out on the switch and it works perfectly for HD 3D games (I can't remember the ATV trial game that has HD audio that I downloaded and works fine with my set-up). Please PM me if you have any more questions.


----------



## Ron Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19429623
> 
> 
> Some HDMI 1.3 A/V receiver do pass through the 1920x2205 Packed buffer HDMI 1.4a 3D formatted content completly untouched even if they can not do anything with the audio. I don't think any A/V receiver would whil passing through these buffers untouched would at the same time accept audio via optical from any source.



This thread would be a lot more useful if we could include a table listing those HDMI 1.3 AVRs that have been found to offer a pass-thru mode that supports one, or mulitple of the 3D formats (as defined by the HDMI 1.4a specification). Specficially for each entry in the table we should include:
AVR brand and model number

3D source device brand and model number

3DTV brand and model number

3D modes from source tested and for each you have tested indicate:

VIDEO - Pass or Fail................AUDIO (via HDMI) - Pass or Fail
_Frame Packing 1080p/24_ (e.g., Blu-ray 3D)

_Frame Packing 720p/60 (e.g., PS 3D games)_

_1080i side-by-side (e.g., Directv or Cable TV)_

_Top-and Bottom 1080p/24_

_Top-and-Bottom 720p/60_

Perhaps the OP for this thread, MrManson, would be willing to edit Post #1 to include the table if we can put one together. I'm willing to work on the table if other forum members send me PMs with the above information for the HDMI 1.3 AVRs that they have verified to successfully pass one or more of the above 3D formats.


----------



## Wryker

If you're lucky to have one of these models:
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/3Dupgrade.html


----------



## threepercentmilk

Wryker, thanks my box should come soon - I'll hook it up this weekend and let you know the results. From other threads it seems that all the switches/splitters are quirky - some even have the reset button on the remote control!


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* /forum/post/19502040
> 
> AVR brand and model number
> 
> 3D source device brand and model number
> 
> 3DTV brand and model number
> 
> 3D modes from source tested and for each you have tested indicate:



Good idea Ron.
AVR - Pioneer 7.1 VSX-1018AH-K
3D Source - PS3 Fat 20GB CECHB01
3DTV - Mitsubishi 60" RP DLP WD-60735
with 3DA-1 adapter

3D modes
720p/60 - PASS - Works through AVR (7.1 audio)
1080p/24 - FAIL - does not work through AVR, but does work direct to 3DA-1



---------------

Other Notes

---------------

PS3 has 3.50 firmware. Upgraded to 250GB hdd (not relevant though), if you need help finding your PS3 model number, check This Playstation KB article .

--

all cables hdmi 1.3 compliant, 24awg, monoprice, 6' each or less. When bypassing the AVR, the cables work fine, so I don't think that's a factor.

--

tried putting the 3D adapter both before AVR in, and after AVR out - same results.

--

I'm using nVidia 3Dvision shutter glasses (I have a gaming PC hooked up to the same TV, with 7.1 audio going to analog inputs on the AVR. 4x 1/8"-to-L/R-RCA cables)

--

test media - 3D game demos as downloaded from PSN. Also 3D video demo (.MP4) which is 720p/60. blu-ray 3D tested was Monster House 3D. Wipeout 3D demo has Audio test in options which verifies 7.1 audio. PS3 set to PCM output because older PS3's don't bitstream 7.1 HD formats.

--

I contacted Sony support about restricting output of PS3 to 720p-3D only... They confirmed this is not possible, but didn't go into details. Perhaps decoding 1080p/24 blu-ray content is at the brink of what PS3 can handle CPU-wise, so adding a downscaler in software is not feasible?

--

I contacted Pioneer support about firmware upgrade for the 1018. Email support said call phone support, phone support guy said "no, you need a 1.4 receiver, it's not possible with a 1.3 receiver". After 5 minutes of arguing with him about how the bandwidth and pixel clock rate are identical between 1.3 and 1.4, and asking, "how does Sony do it with the PS3 firmware update then?", I gave up talking to this d-bag. Honestly that 1 phone call makes me consider not ever buying Pioneer products again. But, it's not Pioneers fault - I blame it all on HDMI. Before HDMI, any decent receiver lasted 10-15 years. Now they become obsolete in 2.

--


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *threepercentmilk* /forum/post/19505635
> 
> 
> Wryker, thanks my box should come soon - I'll hook it up this weekend and let you know the results. From other threads it seems that all the switches/splitters are quirky - some even have the reset button on the remote control!



Mine is working fine now - had to reset/program my Harmony One to make the correct selection.


----------



## threepercentmilk

I can confirm that this 4x2 matrix switch which Wryker mentioned, also works for my setup.


I have output #1 going to my 3DA-1 adapter, which then goes to TV.

I have output #2 going to my Pio 1018 AVR, which then goes to TV.


If I want to play PS3 games in 3D (720p/60), I turn both outputs on, set TV to 3DA-1 input. I still get full 7.1 audio through AVR (4x2 switch acts as a splitter in this case).


If I want to watch 3D Blu-Ray I turn on output 1 only, and set AVR to either Optical (from PS3) or COAX (from the 4x2 switch). The latter is more convenient because you don't have to go into PS3 settings and change from HDMI audio to Toslink. (although I did have to change audio from PCM to Bitstream, but this setting is easier to access - during movie playback, press triangle for the popup menu). And a plain RCA cable is cheaper than fiber, although I already had both on hand.


If you don't care for buying any of the short list of currently available blu-ray 3D 's, I found this NetBlender Demo Disc which also works in the PS3. It has 3 short clips, the 3D effects are so-so, but hey, it's free (I burned to a BD-R cause it said it was required, but will also try DVD-R or CD-R later)


---


So, just to avoid confusion - this switch isn't something that magically lets you get full 7.1 HD audio from Blu-Ray 3D through a HDMI 1.3 receiver... It does however save you from plugging and unplugging HDMI cables every time you'd want to watch a blu-ray 3D on your PS3. It also gives you an additional 3 HDMI inputs. Overall, certainly worth $75.


If you already own a 3D-ready DLP, and a PS3, and a decent AVR, I would recommend getting the Mitsubishi 3D-kit and this matrix switch as it will be much cheaper than getting a new 3D native LCD (or plasma or dlp) and a new HDMI 1.4 AVR.


With DLP's, since the 3D uses a checkerboard pattern, you are only getting half the resolution, but it still looks great. Definitely on-par with anything I've demo'd at Best Buy (samsung, sony, panasonic).


----------



## jsmiddleton4

I tried this unit:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Rocketfi...224493&st=hdmi 


Did not work for goal of splitting audio to my 1.3 HDMI receiver and the 3D 1.4 to my display. It worked for 3D if I only used 1.4 HDMI devices. Once I plugged in my 1.3 receiver the splitter sensed the 1.3 standard and shut down the 1.4 stuff being passed through.


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jsmiddleton4* /forum/post/19523048
> 
> 
> I tried this unit:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Rocketfi...224493&st=hdmi
> 
> 
> Did not work for goal of splitting audio to my 1.3 HDMI receiver and the 3D 1.4 to my display. It worked for 3D if I only used 1.4 HDMI devices. Once I plugged in my 1.3 receiver the splitter sensed the 1.3 standard and shut down the 1.4 stuff being passed through.



I noticed that one, as well as a few on Amazon (around $40). I think the splitter is behaving as designed, there are 2 possible scenarios:

_AVR reports video modes that it can decode_. In this scenario, the splitter has to pick the lowest-common video mode between both outputs. Since the AVR doesn't report 3D, the splitter reports fewer modes to the source.
_AVR reports only audio modes, but can't decode 1080p/24-3D mode_. Here, the source still sends 1.4 3D video, but the AVR doesn't know where to decode the audio packets from (since it's interleaved in the blanking "pixels" between the actual video pixels (active region), an AVR still has to recognize the video mode.


Either way, you'd need a firmware update on the AVR (so that it knows about the new 3D video mode). Unfortunately not all receivers can be updated.


---


I could not find a device that will extract the audio from the primary port and output it on a secondary hdmi port (which goes to your AVR).


I did find 2 devices ( Atlona & Gefen ) which will extract HDMI audio and output to 8 analog channels or to TOSLINK (unfortunately toslink is limited to 5.1 channels)


So those might be an option if you have full 7.1 analog audio inputs on your receiver. If you only have 5.1 speaker setup, get a cheaper splitter that also extracts audio, or use toslink for audio from your BD-3D player to your AVR.


----------



## jimwhite

Has anyone successfully passed audio *with no video* from the subHDMI output of a Panny 300/350 through an Onkyo 705 Rcvr ????????


----------



## jsmiddleton4

"I think the splitter is behaving as designed"


I agree. It is not designed so that the hdmi ports are separate in their logic. Both ports default to the lowest common denominator.


I'm sure we'll see splitters that are designed to keep each port separate.


"you'd need a firmware update on the AVR"


Sorry but it is not the case that just a firmware update will allow a 1.3 receiver to handle 1.4 information. IF a receiver is designed to do so and just needs to be updated, like some of our displays, yes a firmware is needed. But if a receiver is 1.3 and its hardware is 1.3 a firmware update will not change its hardware design.


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jsmiddleton4* /forum/post/19534137
> 
> 
> "you'd need a firmware update on the AVR"
> 
> 
> Sorry but it is not the case that just a firmware update will allow a 1.3 receiver to handle 1.4 information. IF a receiver is designed to do so and just needs to be updated, like some of our displays, yes a firmware is needed. But if a receiver is 1.3 and its hardware is 1.3 a firmware update will not change its hardware design.



You missed the part in my post that said "unfortunately not all receivers can be updated."


It really depends on what chip the AVR is using for the HDMI portion, and the implementation. Not counting the Ethernet-over-HDMI or backchannel audio stuff in HDMI 1.4, but focusing on 3D capabilities, the PHY (physical layer) of HDMI 1.3a and 1.4 are _identical_. My point is that the only necessary update is in firmware, if it's designed to be flashable at all.


----------



## obveron

I'd say the more important factor of whether an 1.3 AVR is updatable is whether the manufacturer WANTS to update it.

It's tough to sell new AVRs if the old ones can be made to work just as well.


There's nothing like a new feature to sell the same products (for the most part) over again.


----------



## guigui_paris

As anyone tryed the following set up assuming the AVR can accept 3d video?

Connect the player (PS3 in my case) to the AVR using HDMI and output the PS3 sound to the amp through toslink? I am asking because I currently have a Marantz SR6003 and I'm about to receive my 46NX810 3d TV soon and I'm really not sure what kind of set up I could use to have 3d withouth having to plug my PS3 directly to my TV.

Thanks!


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guigui_paris* /forum/post/19568160
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the following set up assuming the AVR can accept 3d video?
> 
> Connect the player (PS3 in my case) to the AVR using HDMI and output the PS3 sound to the amp through toslink? I am asking because I currently have a Marantz SR6003 and I'm about to receive my 46NX810 3d TV soon and I'm really not sure what kind of set up I could use to have 3d without having to plug my PS3 directly to my TV.
> 
> Thanks!



You can use toslink, but it limits you to 5.1 channels. This might be ok for you, depending on your speaker setup, but you'll lose DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD formats. The other thing to note is that the PS3 cannot actually output 7.1 channels when playing back blu-ray 3D (maybe it will in a newer PS3 firmware, but seems to be a hardware limitation). I'm not sure if there are even any BD3D titles that have 7.1 audio...


It will probably work for 3D games, when going through your AVR. Try it out and report back your results.


Lastly, I didn't see any firmware downloads for your model on Marantz website, but you might want to call them to check if there is one that is available (if passing 3D doesn't work)

Code:


Code:


Marantz Product Support and Customer Service
(201) 762-6666 
Hours of Operation:  9:00AM to 5:00PM ET, M-F


----------



## guigui_paris

I surely will report my resuts here.

I do not really mind loosing HD sound as I watch the very few 3D BD but as a workaround I think outputing image through HDMI and sound through toslink from the PS3 might work.

I will be delivered my NX810 next week so I'll have to wait until then to keep you posted.

On french forums people are reporting they can get 3D image using a Marantz SR5003 which is the same as the SR6003 but with only 1 HDMI output so guess my amp can let 3D passing through.


Many thnaks for the Marantz contact number. I'l give them a call but really doubt they will update the firmware.

Cheers


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guigui_paris* /forum/post/19574451
> 
> 
> On french forums people are reporting they can get 3D image using a Marantz SR5003 which is the same as the SR6003 but with only 1 HDMI output so guess my amp can let 3D passing through.



They are reporting Blu-Ray 3D through the SR5003? or just other sources such as satellite/cable/3D games ? They all use slightly different formats, and seems the one that most people have problems passing are Blu-ray 3D.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guigui_paris* /forum/post/19574451
> 
> 
> Many thanks for the Marantz contact number. I'll give them a call but really doubt they will update the firmware.
> 
> Cheers



Je suis désolé, I should have guessed from your username that you are in France. Bienvenue! I couldn't find a number, but here is an e-mail contact form for Marantz Europe:

http://www.marantz-faq.eu/?action=contact


----------



## guigui_paris

Actually I am french yes but live in the US..so more than happy with the US contact for Marantz. Thanks


----------



## ingvar13

Hello! I have Onkyo 1007 (HDMI 1.3) and now I have 3D Plasma Samsung 63C7000 and I need to connect 3D BD player. Can I get 3D video from BD through AV-receiver to my Plasma with analogue 7.1 sound or via TOSlink?

Or can I use HDMI switcher and connect HDMI out from AVR and HDMI out from 3D BD to switcher input and connect switcher output to Plasma HDMI input?

Sorry but I can't connect Plasma and 3D BD with second HDMI cable. HD Audio is not necessary (or I can get HD Audio through 7.1 analogue).


----------



## modernninja




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stupid Onkyo not releasing an update to the 707



Luckily, onkyo came out with the ht-s9300thx, which is 3d ready with 1.4a inputs...I'm lucky I had the good taste to get one since I just bought a panny gt25...tv has arrived, just waiting on the glasses from fedex...


----------



## dork4638

I have an Onkyo 605, which does only 1.3. I am able to output 3d from my HTPC setup (using the Radeon HD5670 - HDMI 1.3 output) to my Mitsubishi 65638. I was able to watch the Avatar 3d BR and RE: Afterlife 3d BR discs with no problems.


I was also able to play COD: Black Ops on the 360 in 3d mode.


One issue I did find was that the PS3 (whose firmware was written to specifically enable 3d over 1.3b) wouldn't work when I run it through the receiver. But because the PS3 forces DTS-HD and TrueHD down to DTS / DD when running 3D (bandwith issues), I just decided to run the PS3 directly to the 3d adapter and run an optical cable to the receiver.


I am at a loss as to why the Onkyo appears to handle the Xbox and HTPC 3D just fine but can't handle the PS3. I'm considering getting an HDMI splitter, one going to the receiver and the other to the 3d adapter. Anyone have luck with that?


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dork4638* /forum/post/19649159
> 
> 
> I have an Onkyo 605, which does only 1.3. I am able to output 3d from my HTPC setup (using the Radeon HD5670 - HDMI 1.3 output) to my Mitsubishi 65638. I was able to watch the Avatar 3d BR and RE: Afterlife 3d BR discs with no problems.
> 
> 
> I was also able to play COD: Black Ops on the 360 in 3d mode.
> 
> 
> One issue I did find was that the PS3 (whose firmware was written to specifically enable 3d over 1.3b) wouldn't work when I run it through the receiver. But because the PS3 forces DTS-HD and TrueHD down to DTS / DD when running 3D (bandwith issues), I just decided to run the PS3 directly to the 3d adapter and run an optical cable to the receiver.
> 
> 
> I am at a loss as to why the Onkyo appears to handle the Xbox and HTPC 3D just fine but can't handle the PS3. I'm considering getting an HDMI splitter, one going to the receiver and the other to the 3d adapter. Anyone have luck with that?



Search this thread for my posts.


----------



## dork4638

I went ahead and bought the Monoprice 4x2 splitter referenced in the thread. The same issues remain, just slightly different. I have the TV, PS3, 360 and HTPC going into the splitter, with output A going into the Mitsubishi adapter, and output B going into the Onkyo 605.


The PS3 still cannot recognize my TV as a 3D capable device. When I plugged it directly to the adapter, it immediately recognized it. So then I replugged it back into the splitter, and was able to play 3d games on it - but sound through HDMI (output B) disappeared, forcing me to use the optical output. This phenomenon does not happen when I play non-3d games. Also, sound coming out of Output B is being downgraded to 2-channel PCM, I cannot get Output B to put out DD 5.1 / DTS / other High-Res audio.


I'm thinking it's just not in the cards for me to have the type of setup that won't require me to physically unplug and replug if I want to watch 3d content. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dork4638* /forum/post/19683336
> 
> 
> I went ahead and bought the Monoprice 4x2 splitter referenced in the thread. The same issues remain, just slightly different. I have the TV, PS3, 360 and HTPC going into the splitter, with output A going into the Mitsubishi adapter, and output B going into the Onkyo 605.
> 
> 
> The PS3 still cannot recognize my TV as a 3D capable device. When I plugged it directly to the adapter, it immediately recognized it. So then I replugged it back into the splitter, and was able to play 3d games on it - but sound through HDMI (output B) disappeared, forcing me to use the optical output. This phenomenon does not happen when I play non-3d games. Also, sound coming out of Output B is being downgraded to 2-channel PCM, I cannot get Output B to put out DD 5.1 / DTS / other High-Res audio.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking it's just not in the cards for me to have the type of setup that won't require me to physically unplug and replug if I want to watch 3d content. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



That happens on occasion - press the reset button on the 4x2 switch and you'll get back the HD audio. As you've discovered - you have to connect the PS3 to the AVR 'first' via HDMI then config your audio, do the same for video (Directly connect the HDMI to the adapter) - then connect the HDMI to the 4x2 to get full HD audio and video. I learned the hard way the first time.


----------



## dork4638

Wryker,


Thanks for the info. I will try it the ordering you suggested. Hopefully this will resolve the audio downgrade issue with the 360 and HTPC as well. Will report back my results.


Thanks again!


----------



## dork4638

Tried everything that was suggested. I can't get ps3 to output sound via hdmi when playing a 3d game. Thanks for the help guys but it looks like my combination of devices doesn't seem to agree with this splitter.


----------



## dork4638

One last update, the splitter works just fine on my other components (360 & HTPC). It stopped sending down-mixed 2 ch audio to the receiver yesterday, providing high-res audio. As for the PS3, I decided to go with an optical cable when playing 3D games and use HDMI audio when playing non-3d titles or movies.


----------



## threepercentmilk

I have Output A of the 4x2 switch going to the 3DA adapter, output B going to receiver.


I find that when setting up the PS3, you have to have output A turned on, and TV has to be set to that input. Output B has to be _off_. The PS3 will detect that it is a 3D capable TV. (only had to do this once)


For PS3 HDMI audio setup, I do the opposite (A off, _B on_), TV set to AVR input, tell it to detect. (have to do this every time I switch between HDMI and Toslink or back)


Sometimes when using 3D modes with PS3, I have to press the reset button on the switch. I always set my TV to the 3DA input, and AVR to the switch-Output-B input before I press reset.


When playing blu-ray 3D, I have to use Toslink for audio. also set audio option to _Bitstream (mix)_ during movie playback.


If you have 5.1 speaker setup, it's probably most convenient to keep PS3 output over Toslink. If you have 7.1 speakers, try the HDMI like above.


My HTPC audio is output over multi-channel analog and direct PC->TV through DVI->HDMI cable. (my video card doesn't support audio passthrough)


----------



## sswats

I have a 3d projector. I need to pass the signal from the PS3 and my games pc to my projector via my AV HDMI 1.3 receiver.

But my projector only runs at 720p, a much lower resolution with lower bandwidth. Is that going to help the situation, or is hdmi 1.4 needed for syncing as well as bandwidth.


----------



## Brandaris




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jimwhite* /forum/post/19533200
> 
> 
> Has anyone successfully passed audio *with no video* from the subHDMI output of a Panny 300/350 through an Onkyo 705 Rcvr ????????



You can try to switch off the HDMI monitor in the setup menu, see your manual....

I have the 875 there it's only a push on a button....


----------



## tdawson

"Actually, the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players will convert the frame sequential 3D to checkerboard. This how those of us with DLP 3D ready televisions are able to view 3D Blu-ray without a converter."


I have a question regarding this. I am thinking of buying an Onkyo TX-NR1008 AV receiver to use with these two. Would the fact that it is HDMI 1.4 cause any problems with either the Mits 82837 or the checker board 3D output of the Panasonic Blu Ray player?


Thanks in advance for feedback.


----------



## threepercentmilk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tdawson* /forum/post/20093822
> 
> 
> I am thinking of buying an Onkyo TX-NR1008 AV receiver to use with these two. Would the fact that it is HDMI 1.4 cause any problems with either the Mits 82837 or the checker board 3D output of the Panasonic Blu Ray player?



There used to be a Panasonic BD-3D player model that had 2 HDMI outputs - 1 for the picture/sound, and a second one for Audio-only. This was popular because it let people use their HDMI 1.3 audio receiver, and their DLP TV. I never bought it cause it was $400 and I already had a PS3, so was cheaper for me to get the Mitsubishi 3D adapter. I did a brief search of newer Panasonic BD-3D players, and none that I could find have this same dual-hdmi output feature.


It's nice if Panasonic outputs the format, but it's not technically part of the 3D HDMI 1.4 specification (even though they included 7 or 8 other obscure formats). The checkerboard format is [email protected], which any HDMI 1.4 receiver should have the bandwidth to pass through and decode. Unfortunately you won't know until you try it (or look through other threads on the forums here)


What do you plan to use for shutter glasses?


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tdawson* /forum/post/20093822
> 
> 
> "Actually, the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players will convert the frame sequential 3D to checkerboard. This how those of us with DLP 3D ready televisions are able to view 3D Blu-ray without a converter."
> 
> 
> I have a question regarding this. I am thinking of buying an Onkyo TX-NR1008 AV receiver to use with these two. Would the fact that it is HDMI 1.4 cause any problems with either the Mits 82837 or the checker board 3D output of the Panasonic Blu Ray player?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for feedback.



If you already have an AVR that has audio component inputs the lowest cost 3D BD player to get full HD audio is the Samsung C5900 or C6900. I bought a C6900 for $150 from the 'zon's outlet store and hooked up the audio via component 7.1 and the HDMI for the video out - lossless HD audio (Denon 3808) and perfect 3D picture (Mitsy 73835).


----------



## Farlaugh

Hi all long time no see.


I just picked up a samsung 8000 seies and figured out my AVR-987 won't pass the 3D. I am running a PS3 and have the hdmi from ps3 going to tv and I am using an optical audio cable from PS3 to receiver. I made sure the optical in was set correctly but still can't get sound. Any thoughts are appreciated!!!


----------



## rupterr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Farlaugh* /forum/post/21266017
> 
> 
> Hi all long time no see.
> 
> 
> I just picked up a samsung 8000 seies and figured out my AVR-987 won't pass the 3D. I am running a PS3 and have the hdmi from ps3 going to tv and I am using an optical audio cable from PS3 to receiver. I made sure the optical in was set correctly but still can't get sound. Any thoughts are appreciated!!!



Did you set the PS3 to output sound via optical in the PS3's sound settings tab?


----------



## Ash83

I am still confused about the limitation from The receiver for HDMI 1.3 and 1.4. I have a yamaha RXv665 and i fought the same problem that everyone had to keep using only HDMI cables with all my devices PS3, XBOX360, Cable Box, 3D TV and AppleTV.



Why do we have limitation on the AVR side? Why it does not just pass the signal? from what i read it is the new protocol is about new fields in the EDID headers.. I do not see why this can not be fixed by software update in the AVR unless there is a chip that does the transfer for the HDMI switch that is not fast enough for 3D..


----------



## chetanzcool

I was able to get 3D Working BD , Nvidia 3dTV play etc on my Onkyo SR577 which is an HDMI 1.3 Receiver --> Samsung D6000 Series HDMI 1.4a HDTV.


Here is what I did , setup DualView


Geforce GTX 560 DVI -> HDMI 1 of the TV

Geforce GTX 560 HDMI -> HDMI 1 of the Onkyo SR577 --> HDMI 2 of the TV


Enabled DVI Display as the Primary Display

Under Audio set the Default Audio to SR577


And now everything works like Out of the BOX.


3DTV play

3D Videos

3d Blu Ray with HD Audio (True HD and Master Audio )


Added screen shots !


----------



## micmarger

Chet- I currently have the ps3-->Onkyo 875(does not pass 3d)-->samsung 550 all via hdmi. on the samsung I press the 3d button & voila 3d!!! Is this correct or am I getting a "filtered" version if 3d from the samsung?


----------



## chetanzcool

mic thats just one part of 3D. There are as far as i can remember four stereoscopic 3D transmission formats currently in use, called frame sequential, frame packing, side-by-side, and checkerboard


You can Play Videos (avi , mp4, mkv etc) that are Side by Side or checkered and press 3D and the TV will Display this as 3D, however if you try a BluRay 3D Movie or a 3D Game it will NOT be supported on your current setup as these use frame packing or frame sequential (frame sequential is used mostly only in the PC world , especially Nvidia 3dTV play etc , BD players etc use frame packing)


In Short 4 formats :

1. Side by Side (Should work with NON 1.4 HDMI receivers )

2. Checkerboard (Should work with NON 1.4 HDMI receivers )

3. frame sequential (Needs a 1.4 HDMI receiver or the Work around i mentioned in my above post for the PC using Dual View)

4. frame packing (This is the default used in HDMI 1.4 format. Needs a 1.4 HDMI receiver or the Work around i mentioned in my above post for the PC using Dual View)


----------



## micmarger

Hi Chet- noted your post about the 3d formats. using my the ps3-->Onkyo 875(does not pass 3d)-->samsung 550 all via hdmi setup, I played Megamind 3d bluray & it works. Am I missing something? or should I use the "if it ain't broke..." saying & continue as is.


----------



## Milez28

Hey Mic, could you check your ps3 settings and let us know what they are set at would ya?


----------



## micmarger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milez28* /forum/post/21440318
> 
> 
> Hey Mic, could you check your ps3 settings and let us know what they are set at would ya?



Nothing special Audio & Video=HDMI with all settings checked off in the video settings. Let me know specifically what you're looking for.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *threepercentmilk* /forum/post/19573786
> 
> 
> [snip] ...The other thing to note is that the PS3 cannot actually output 7.1 channels when playing back blu-ray 3D (maybe it will in a newer PS3 firmware, but seems to be a hardware limitation)...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dork4638* /forum/post/19649159
> 
> 
> [snip] ...because the PS3 forces DTS-HD and TrueHD down to DTS / DD when running 3D (bandwith issues), I just decided to run the PS3 directly to the 3d adapter and run an optical cable to the receiver...



The PS3 could output lossless 7.1 in 3D mode since August (firmware 3.7)

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/...=update_080911 


> Quote:
> DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR decoding/bit stream output (or lossless audio) will be supported while playing Blu-ray 3D movies.



No Dolby TruHD yet, however.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *threepercentmilk* /forum/post/20096692
> 
> 
> [snip]...It's nice if Panasonic outputs the format, but it's not technically part of the 3D HDMI 1.4 specification (even though they included 7 or 8 other obscure formats). The checkerboard format is [email protected], which any HDMI 1.4 receiver should have the bandwidth to pass through and decode. Unfortunately you won't know until you try it (or look through other threads on the forums here)...



Checkerboard works (with sound) through HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 AVRs. If you have a Bluray player that outputs checkerboard, you can run it through either type of AVR just fine. The AVR issues only occur when trying to run 1.4 through a 1.3 AVR


----------



## aaranddeeman

I have PS3 connected to my non-3D projector via Denon 1909.

I am planning to upgrade to 3d PJ soon and was wondering if I can use Denon to pass thru the 3D. (Most likely not... so other options may be toslink or new receiver..)


----------



## swak

I may have found something that works, http://m.hdtvsupply.com/at-hd-v12.html 

but, I think its a bit too pricey. Guess I will just use continue with optical from my PS3 to my AVR.


----------



## aaranddeeman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swak* /forum/post/21858396
> 
> 
> I may have found something that works, http://m.hdtvsupply.com/at-hd-v12.html
> 
> but, I think its a bit too pricey. Guess I will just use continue with optical from my PS3 to my AVR.



Looked at it, but it says HDMI 1.3.


What I wanted was the one with HDMI 1.4a. That way I can keep my existing receiver for Audio, and sue one of the outputs from the splitter to the 3D Display device.

I checked with monoprice, and they say that it will support lowest between the two. That completley defeats the purpose.


PS. And instead of paying $229 for this, I would just get a new receiver..


----------



## swak

I don't think hdmi 1.3 would be an issue with this it is the edid feature that should make this work. But, I agree that I'd rather just upgrade my AVR. If this was a $100 item I would be tempted.


----------



## blaket81

There is no way to use a 1.3 receiver with 3D except to have all of your 3D devices plug straight into your tv and run the optical out from your tv to your receiver. You are now no longer able to use your receiver for video and you will not get lossless audio (Dolby TruHD, DTS HD Master, etc.). I have fought and fought and claimed I would never give in and replace my receiver that was expensive and I ended up just doing it anyway, there is no way around it except how I described. IMO the whole thing is on purpose so people have to end up replacing everything for a 3D setup.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81* /forum/post/21867071
> 
> 
> There is no way to use a 1.3 receiver with 3D except to have all of your 3D devices plug straight into your tv and run the optical out from your tv to your receiver. You are now no longer able to use your receiver for video and you will not get lossless audio (Dolby TruHD, DTS HD Master, etc.). I have fought and fought and claimed I would never give in and replace my receiver that was expensive and I ended up just doing it anyway, there is no way around it except how I described. IMO the whole thing is on purpose so people have to end up replacing everything for a 3D setup.



Not true. It all depends on the receiver. My denon 3808 can pass-thru most 3D signals but not all. I can watch 3D shows from Comcast through my AVR without issues.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aaranddeeman* /forum/post/21859588
> 
> 
> Looked at it, but it says HDMI 1.3.
> 
> 
> What I wanted was the one with HDMI 1.4a. That way I can keep my existing receiver for Audio, and sue one of the outputs from the splitter to the 3D Display device.
> 
> I checked with monoprice, and they say that it will support lowest between the two. That completley defeats the purpose.
> 
> 
> PS. And instead of paying $229 for this, I would just get a new receiver..



monoprice sells a 2 x 2 and a 4 x 2 splitter/switch. That allows you to send the full HD audio and picture to two sources. The one catch is you can't have your AVR feed into the splitter/switch: one output is sent to the AVR, the other to your video source (projector/TV). They cost @$70.


----------



## Richard in SF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81* /forum/post/21867071
> 
> 
> There is no way to use a 1.3 receiver with 3D except to have all of your 3D devices plug straight into your tv and run the optical out from your tv to your receiver.



I'm running optical from player to rcvr. very happily. All surround modes seem to work. "Lossless", I don't know. (Of course, video goes straight to TV.)


----------



## swak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/21867142
> 
> 
> monoprice sells a 2 x 2 and a 4 x 2 splitter/switch. That allows you to send the full HD audio and picture to two sources. The one catch is you can't have your AVR feed into the splitter/switch: one output is sent to the AVR, the other to your video source (projector/TV). They cost @$70.



I actually emailed monoprice regarding these switches and they replied that only the audio the tv was capable of producing (stereo) would be sent to the AVR. Hence, the need to spoof the EDID like the high-priced device I found is said to do. IF anyone is having sucess using these monoprice switches with lossless audio I will buy one.


----------



## blaket81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Richard in SF* /forum/post/21867153
> 
> 
> I'm running optical from player to rcvr. very happily. All surround modes seem to work. "Lossless", I don't know. (Of course, video goes straight to TV.)



Yes, you don't have to run optical from the tv, but my old receiver only had one optical in, so to get all my devices on optical audio at once I would have had to do it through the tv. I also was told multiple times by multiple people that optical will not give you the HD audio codecs that HDMI is supposed to deliver. I've spoken about all this in several threads and the same conclusion was always found. It's because 1.3 doesn't have "audio return channel" not that I know what that means, but what it comes down to is HDMI 1.3 is not compatible with 3D. I'm not going by what I've found, i'm going by what I've been told time and time again. I thought I heard once that it will work through a 1.3 receiver but you won't be getting full HD 3D, you'll be getting side by side or something. As I said I am not the knowledgible one, just reporting what I've been told and read.


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swak* /forum/post/21867191
> 
> 
> I actually emailed monoprice regarding these switches and they replied that only the audio the tv was capable of producing (stereo) would be sent to the AVR. Hence, the need to spoof the EDID like the high-priced device I found is said to do. IF anyone is having sucess using these monoprice switches with lossless audio I will buy one.



Not sure why they said that since that's what I had connected. One output to the AVR for the sound, the other to the TV for 3D. Worked fine for me.


----------



## Wryker

 http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blaket81* /forum/post/21867236
> 
> 
> Yes, you don't have to run optical from the tv, but my old receiver only had one optical in, so to get all my devices on optical audio at once I would have had to do it through the tv. I also was told multiple times by multiple people that optical will not give you the HD audio codecs that HDMI is supposed to deliver. I've spoken about all this in several threads and the same conclusion was always found. It's because 1.3 doesn't have "audio return channel" not that I know what that means, but what it comes down to is HDMI 1.3 is not compatible with 3D. I'm not going by what I've found, i'm going by what I've been told time and time again. I thought I heard once that it will work through a 1.3 receiver but you won't be getting full HD 3D, you'll be getting side by side or something. As I said I am not the knowledgible one, just reporting what I've been told and read.



Optical will not give you lossless audio. As I understand it, it is not necessarily that it _can't_, but the standards (and therefore the hardware) won't allow it. Either way, it doesn't.


Audio Return Channel is another feature altogether. When one connects everything through a 1.4 AV Receiver (cable/sat, Blu-ray, etc), one needs only one connection to the TV from the AVR, an HDMI cable.


However, if one also received OTA signals through antenna to the TV and wanted surround sound, one would normally need an extra audio connection from the TV back to the AVR.


With Audio Return Channel, that connection is sent backwards through the _same HDMI cable coming from the AVR_, making it truly a one-wire system. The TV and the AVR must support ARC for it to work.


----------



## swak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/21867538
> 
> 
> Not sure why they said that since that's what I had connected. One output to the AVR for the sound, the other to the TV for 3D. Worked fine for me.



Here is what monoprice emailed me. "Thank you for contacting us at Monoprice.com. In regards to your inquiry, I do apologize but that will not. All of your devices would have to be 3D compliant for that to work, if one is not 3D compliant then it would downgrade to the highest common resolution of what that device can support. All of our matrixes/ switches/ and splitters will do this. Unfortunately, that is a limitation with all HDMI splitters. The reason a splitter would do this would be to ensure that all of the devices work properly. When you connect two HDMI devices together, they talk to each other and share what they can and cant do, this is referred to as a "Handshake". So essentially, a splitter will only support the highest common resolution and audio. Say you have a 1080p TV and a 720p TV, the splitter will only output in 720P, the reason is that if it where to output a 1080p signal, the 720P TV would simply not work.It is the same thing with audio, if the TV does not support 5.1 audio, the splitter will not output 5.1 audio to the receiver. Thank you for making Monoprice your preferred place to shop online. Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with."


----------



## old corps




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wryker* /forum/post/21867133
> 
> 
> Not true. It all depends on the receiver. My denon 3808 can pass-thru most 3D signals but not all. I can watch 3D shows from Comcast through my AVR without issues.



+1!


I run 3D in SBS through my Onkyo 607 (1.3) with no problem and have lossless audio. Just won't pass frame-packed 3D through. This is to my Epson 3010 3D projector and I see NO difference in pq between 3D in frame packed & SBS.










Ed


----------



## Bazzq

Hello everyone,


Just thought I'd sign up to this forum to post my solution.


When using a HTPC running windows 7 I was able to get around the issue of not having a 1.4 HDMI rreceiver firstly by using an nvidia graphics card with dual output, one to the TV direct and the other to the receiver. Now this did work via PowerDVD 11 however the audio did not sync with the video, which as you can understand was very frustrating.


ATI grahics card will not allow you to have 2 audio outputs like nvidia cards do, so my solution was to buy a pci ati 5450 (my motherboard only has 1 pci-e 16x slot) for connection to receiver and an ati 7750 card for direct connection to the 3dTV. Bam! perfectly synced audio and video with my blurays discs and bluray ISO's via the network with both PowerDVD and arcsoft total media.


I hope this post will be of help to all thoose people who have been tearing there hair out trying to get around this lip sync issue without having to buy a new amp


----------



## flyguyjake

I have an AVR4308CI so no 3d pass thru. My HTPC runs Win7 64-bit, i7 and has a Radeon HD 5970. PowerDVD12 & TMT5.

My TV is a new 65" VT50 Panny Plasma. Wired as follows; Mini display-hdmi direct to tv. ATI dongle DVI-HDMI to AVR.


I can get either 3d or 2d w/HD audio but I can't get the HD5970 to pass 3d w/hd audio.


Does anyone know if there is anyway to send only audio to the AVR and only video to the tv? Do Nvidia cards have the ability to split the video & audio?


I know there are blu-ray players that can do this, but I'd prefer to use my HTPC since it holds over 500 movies.


Thanks!


----------



## Bob7145

7.1 Analog, works every time.


----------



## flyguyjake




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/22088209
> 
> 
> 7.1 Analog, works every time.



Analog is not loss-less HD audio.


----------



## Bob7145

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio


----------



## flyguyjake




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/22089767
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio



You will get sound, sure, but the AVR is not getting true lossless digital audio. Using the RCA analog outputs gives you just that "Analog" audio. The HTPC player software decodes the DTSHD/TRUEHD and converts it to Analog.


Why have an expensive AVR and throw analog audio at it? That doesn't make any sense and the sound experience would be incomparable.


I'm not looking to debate this with you, my question was quite clear...


Is it possible to separate video & audio streams...


Thanks


----------



## Bazzq

Flyguy


Yes the Nvidia cards allow dual output, however as stated in my post the audio does not sync well with the video... My solution was to add a 2nd pci ATI 5450 to my setup, now the sounds is in perfect sync and yes I'm able to output lossless audio to my AVR.


----------



## flyguyjake




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bazzq* /forum/post/22090160
> 
> 
> Flyguy
> 
> 
> Yes the Nvidia cards allow dual output, however as stated in my post the audio does not sync well with the video... My solution was to add a 2nd pci ATI 5450 to my setup, now the sounds is in perfect sync and yes I'm able to output lossless audio to my AVR.



So you have two video cards in your htpc? Do you have to set which one is the display?


----------



## Bob7145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyguyjake* /forum/post/22089921
> 
> 
> You will get sound, sure, but the AVR is not getting true lossless digital audio. Using the RCA analog outputs gives you just that "Analog" audio. The HTPC player software decodes the DTSHD/TRUEHD and converts it to Analog.
> 
> 
> Why have an expensive AVR and throw analog audio at it? That doesn't make any sense and the sound experience would be incomparable.
> 
> 
> I'm not looking to debate this with you, my question was quite clear...
> 
> 
> Is it possible to separate video & audio streams...
> 
> 
> Thanks



C&P from the link:

DTS-HD Master Audio may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support[5]:


Over 6, 7 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).

Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6-, 7- or 8-channel linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.

Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver.



I have not bought a receiver in years. Even the bottom of the line receivers a few years ago had direct inputs. Only now do you have to buy top of the line AVR to get this feature. I would not buy a device without Pre-outs or direct inputs.

There are no audio dropouts or dead air while your AVR tries to figure out what to do with the "bits" with analog. No handshake issues either.


Why buy an expensive AVR (that you don't need) just to have issues with it?


----------



## flyguyjake

Bob,


While I appreciate your effort to press forward your recommendation, it does not address my problem at hand nor is it in my opinion the best connection method. Let's move on...


Thanks


----------



## Bazzq

yes 2 vid cards. I just pluged my ati 7750 into the tv and the 5450 into the amp. Set the display on my panasonic 3dtv to the correct input of the 7750 and set the amp to the input from the 5450 and the PC figured it out for me. I did disable all other sound devices in the control panel, just to be sure.


----------



## threepercentmilk

I have an nVidia GTX 460, and didn't experience any audio-sync problems when I tried it. Output 1 = DVI-to-HDMI cable, direct to TV (mitsubishi 1080p DLP, checkerboard 3D). Output 2 = mini-HDMI-to-HDMI cable, direct to receiver. In the nvidia display settings, you have to choose to mirror displays, and enable the hdmi audio only on the output going to the receiver. (nvidia can also output hdmi audio to the DVI port, but the TV is only stereo, so no point). nvidia detects that it's connected to a receiver and figures


I tested with PowerDVD.


other opinions :

For gaming I prefer to use the 7.1 analog audio outputs to the analog Pre-In on my Pioneer receiver. All the 3D effects in games work just fine when the receiver is only acting as an amp, and not a decoder. Plus with all the HDMI handshaking, and how often games change resolutions, if you use HDMI for audio, it drops out for several seconds at a time, multiple times during level loads, etc. This is annoying if you are on Ventrilo or Teamspeak.


For movies that are actually encoded in DTS-MA or Dolby True-HD, the sound is much better when the receiver decodes it. Unfortunately HDMI is the ONLY way you can get these codecs at 7.1 channels (optical TOSLINK is limited to 5.1 channel). If you decode them in the PC then send to receiver via analog, the PC isn't calibrated to the room, like the receiver is (MCACC or similar microphone).


----------



## Wryker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swak* /forum/post/21873498
> 
> 
> Here is what monoprice emailed me. "Thank you for contacting us at Monoprice.com. In regards to your inquiry, I do apologize but that will not. All of your devices would have to be 3D compliant for that to work, if one is not 3D compliant then it would downgrade to the highest common resolution of what that device can support. All of our matrixes/ switches/ and splitters will do this. Unfortunately, that is a limitation with all HDMI splitters. The reason a splitter would do this would be to ensure that all of the devices work properly. When you connect two HDMI devices together, they talk to each other and share what they can and cant do, this is referred to as a "Handshake". So essentially, a splitter will only support the highest common resolution and audio. Say you have a 1080p TV and a 720p TV, the splitter will only output in 720P, the reason is that if it where to output a 1080p signal, the 720P TV would simply not work.It is the same thing with audio, if the TV does not support 5.1 audio, the splitter will not output 5.1 audio to the receiver. Thank you for making Monoprice your preferred place to shop online. Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with."



That's true - if you're connecting both out puts to two different TV's then if one TV supports 720p and nothing higher and your other TV supports 1080p then it will only send 720p - but what i'm saying is having one output go to the AVR (for to send the audio) and the other to the TV/projector (just for video).


----------



## jbrady3324

Read through as much of this thread as I could and I am having trouble finding a conclusive answer regarding PS3 and AVR w/1.3 HDMI. From what I gather, 3D games will work fine (I can get these to work), however 3D Blu-Rays will not (I don't have any to test with)? Or is the problem just with 1080p 3d feeds?


----------



## weng2x

Is this product the answer to the issue?

1X2 PRO Series Powered HDMI® Splitter with 3D support (Rev. 2.0)


----------



## GEP

Based on Monoprice's answer a few posts before, the answer is NO.
"Originally Posted by swak


Here is what monoprice emailed me. "Thank you for contacting us at Monoprice.com. In regards to your inquiry, I do apologize but that will not. All of your devices would have to be 3D compliant for that to work, if one is not 3D compliant then it would downgrade to the highest common resolution of what that device can support. All of our matrixes/ switches/ and splitters will do this. Unfortunately, that is a limitation with all HDMI splitters. The reason a splitter would do this would be to ensure that all of the devices work properly. When you connect two HDMI devices together, they talk to each other and share what they can and cant do, this is referred to as a "Handshake". So essentially, a splitter will only support the highest common resolution and audio. Say you have a 1080p TV and a 720p TV, the splitter will only output in 720P, the reason is that if it where to output a 1080p signal, the 720P TV would simply not work.It is the same thing with audio, if the TV does not support 5.1 audio, the splitter will not output 5.1 audio to the receiver. Thank you for making Monoprice your preferred place to shop online. Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with."


HDMI AVRs do have video capabilities that are a part of the "handshake". AVRs do have video functions - sometimes it is upconverting lower resolution signals, sometimes it is converting analog video signals to digital etc.


The example of a splitter with one output going to the TV and one going to the AVR from one source device, in this case PS3, will still have some problems.


1. The TV reports to the splitter that it is 1080p (and all of the other various sub-parts for a normal 1080p signal) plus all of the other normal video it can handle (such as 720p, 480p etc), 3D (including 1080p & 720p Frame Packed 3D, Side-by-side and Top/Bottom etc.) and which of the video formats are the best. For audio TV often only report PCM stereo audio (an extremely common TV audio limitation).


2. The AVR reports to the splitter that is 1080p (and all of the other various sub-parts for a normal 1080p signal) plus all of the other normal video it can handle (such as 720p, 480p etc) and which of the video formats are the best. For audio the AVR will report compatibly with Dolby HD 7.1 and DTS HD 7.1. and PCM stereo audio (the PCM stereo audio is required, all other audio is optional). There is nothing about 3D at all in this handshake because an HDMI 1.3 AVR does not even know how to add that part.



3. The splitter reads these two handshakes and establishes that only normal 1080p, 720p, 480p and PCM stereo are common between both the TV and the AVR (not the 3D and not the Dolby or DTS audios).


4. The splitter NOT THE TV or AVR reports back to the sourced device (the PS3) that only the normal video, the best video format and PCM stereo are supported - note the splitter reports to the source device, not the TV or the AVR.


5. The source device will then send only the best normal video it can send and PCM stereo audio - because that is what it was told was compatible.


In short the source device only knows about the audio and video formats that are included in the handshake of the device DIRECTLY CONNECTED. Not the devices farther down the line.


The splitter DOES NOT decide to send some signals to the TV and other signals to the AVR. It sends the same signals to both outputs so it tries to limit the signals to signals that compatible with both the TV and AVR. If you send an incompatible signal to one of these devices, you may cause it to crash and potentially damage the device.


When the AVR is between the TV and source device, the handshake route is TV to AVR. AVR establishes the compatibility between the TV and AVR. The AVR then reports to the source device but adds the audio that the AVR is able to handle that the TV does not. The AVR does prevent the incompatible audio from going to the TV. Again if the AVR does not support 3D, it will not include any 3D support in the handshake.


Others here have indicated that the PS3 will only check for 3D support at the time you run through the PS3 HDMI menu setup procedures – I cannot confirm that to be accurate or inaccurate. It is also possible that the PS3 may check again after a power failure or after you unplug and re-plug the AC cord.


----------



## patraboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chetanzcool*  /t/1251962/the-3d-via-a-hdmi-1-3-av-receiver-thread/180#post_21429509
> 
> 
> I was able to get 3D Working BD , Nvidia 3dTV play etc on my Onkyo SR577 which is an HDMI 1.3 Receiver --> Samsung D6000 Series HDMI 1.4a HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what I did , setup DualView
> 
> 
> 
> Geforce GTX 560 DVI -> HDMI 1 of the TV
> 
> 
> Geforce GTX 560 HDMI -> HDMI 1 of the Onkyo SR577 --> HDMI 2 of the TV
> 
> 
> 
> Enabled DVI Display as the Primary Display
> 
> 
> Under Audio set the Default Audio to SR577
> 
> 
> 
> And now everything works like Out of the BOX.
> 
> 
> 
> 3DTV play
> 
> 
> 3D Videos
> 
> 
> 3d Blu Ray with HD Audio (True HD and Master Audio )
> 
> 
> 
> Added screen shots !



Hi,

I have tried your solution via my Asus gtx560 to my Yamaha rx-v663 , but when I play any bd disc through TMT5 , I only get the DTS core sound (not the DTS-HD). Can you help me figure this out?


----------



## Steffche

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I have recently purchased a 65" VT60 plasma with the BDT160 3d blu ray player.

I have had the bdt160 connected via hdmi through my sr5003 receiver which is then connected to the plasma via hdmi where 3d works. All of a sudden, I cannot get 3D to work.

The player says it has not detected a 3D capable display. Now I cant for the life of me get it to work again unless I bypass the sr5003 and go straight to the TV. 

In the BDT160 I have st the HDMI res to 1080p. The sr5003 has video convert set to off, hdmi out res to through (although I have also tried auto and 1080P with no luck).

What the?? How can it have worked at one stage, but now it wont?

ANy ideas??

Going direct hdmi to TV is not an option as the optical audio out from the tv to the sr5003 produces only 2ch stereo, which is not on!


----------



## threepercentmilk

Steffche said:


> The player says it has not detected a 3D capable display. Now I cant for the life of me get it to work again unless I bypass the sr5003 and go straight to the TV.
> 
> In the BDT160 I have st the HDMI res to 1080p. The sr5003 has video convert set to off, hdmi out res to through (although I have also tried auto and 1080P with no luck).
> 
> ANy ideas??


Most 3D players must detect the 3D capabilities, as reported by the display. I would try the following: 
1) see if the BDT160 has an "auto" setting, instead of manually setting it to 1080p. 

2) some TVs only accept 3D input on a certain HDMI port, make sure the SR5003 AVR is connected to the same port where 3D worked directly from BDT160->TV.

3) disconnect HDMI and power off the BDT160, then attach the TV to the SR5003 hdmi-out port, power both on, make sure TV is set to that input. If the AVR doesn't output anything normally (menu, etc), use another HDMI source (Chromecast, whatever) to feed it a signal. Attach the BDT160 to another port on the AVR, switch the AVR input to that port, then power on the BDT160, and see if it detects the 3D capabilities of the TV. (wasn't HDMI supposed to make our lives easier??)

4) test with another 3D playback device (does a friend have a PS3 to lend?) in place of the BDT160.


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## Wryker

Steffche said:


> Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I have recently purchased a 65" VT60 plasma with the BDT160 3d blu ray player.
> 
> I have had the bdt160 connected via hdmi through my sr5003 receiver which is then connected to the plasma via hdmi where 3d works. All of a sudden, I cannot get 3D to work.
> 
> The player says it has not detected a 3D capable display. Now I cant for the life of me get it to work again unless I bypass the sr5003 and go straight to the TV.
> 
> In the BDT160 I have st the HDMI res to 1080p. The sr5003 has video convert set to off, hdmi out res to through (although I have also tried auto and 1080P with no luck).
> 
> What the?? How can it have worked at one stage, but now it wont?
> 
> ANy ideas??
> 
> Going direct hdmi to TV is not an option as the optical audio out from the tv to the sr5003 produces only 2ch stereo, which is not on!


I've since upgraded but I recall having to 'trick' my PS3 into thinking it was directly connected to the TV so try connecting the BD player to the TV and going through the set up so it detects and sets up the 3D. Then unplug it from the TV (NOT the power) and plug it into the AVR and it 'should' work. That's how I had to do it. And if you lost power or something 'funky' happened it might lose that connection and have to go through those steps again.


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## Rolls-Royce

Steffche said:


> Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I have recently purchased a 65" VT60 plasma with the BDT160 3d blu ray player.
> 
> I have had the bdt160 connected via hdmi through my sr5003 receiver which is then connected to the plasma via hdmi where 3d works. All of a sudden, I cannot get 3D to work.
> 
> The player says it has not detected a 3D capable display. Now I cant for the life of me get it to work again unless I bypass the sr5003 and go straight to the TV.
> 
> In the BDT160 I have st the HDMI res to 1080p. The sr5003 has video convert set to off, hdmi out res to through (although I have also tried auto and 1080P with no luck).
> 
> What the?? How can it have worked at one stage, but now it wont?
> 
> ANy ideas??
> 
> Going direct hdmi to TV is not an option as the optical audio out from the tv to the sr5003 produces only 2ch stereo, which is not on!


The Marantz website says your receiver is HDMI 1.3 only, which means it isn't meant to handle HDMI 1.4 3D signals such as 1080p24 frame-packed. If it has in the past, consider yourself lucky. Older Onkyo 1.3 receivers with a Reon processor can pass 1.4 3D if the processor is turned off. However, they still won't process HD sound from 1.4 3D sources since the sound is in a different part of the bitstream and they can't extract it. TNB and SBS are 1.3 formats and will work.


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