# TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b



## ARROW-AV

*TEST REPORTS | LONG HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*​

HDMI version 2.0b, which is the currently industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support. 

But a great many medium to long length HDMI cables that claim to fully support this in reality do not.

The purpose of this thread is to provide a resource database, including lookup tables, with the results of comprehensive evaluation and testing of HDMI cables to reveal which cables will actually reliably and consistently pass 18 Gbps bandwidth video signals and hence properly support HDMI 2.0b video content. Where you can rest assured that these will every time fully and properly support HDMI 2.0b / 18 Gbps video signals; and hence if you use these cables you can kiss goodbye to all of your HDMI headaches and problems, for good.

*Please find attached to this post HDMI Cables Performance Evaluation & Testing Report*

*Enjoy! *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*NOTE FROM OP:*

We have closed this thread and removed the report because this thread and our report is now 4 years old and is out of date. 

For an up to date cables thread see:









Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for HDMI 2.1


This is a quick and dirty list of the more common, certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. It is by no means complete so any corrections or additions are more than welcome. Hopefully it will help to narrow down the confusing mess of HDMI cables. Amazon and Monoprice cables were not...




www.avsforum.com


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## Cain

This thread will be a terrific source of info for years to come, thank you.

Suggestion. I assume the actual report will be updated many times in the future. Perhaps add the date of the linked report to the file name so people can note an updated report from their last view/download ?

Or perhaps a report version number, e.g V1.0.


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## ARROW-AV

Cain said:


> This thread will be a terrific source of info for years to come, thank you.
> 
> Suggestion. I assume the actual report will be updated many times in the future. Perhaps add the date of the linked report to the file name so people can note an updated report from their last view/download ?
> 
> Or perhaps a report version number, e.g V1.0.


Great minds think alike! You will note that the report is labelled *"REPORT #1"*... The next will be labelled *"REPORT #2"*


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## alebonau

good to see...

... for us in he metric world... I so wish that 2nd category was 10m.... rather than 9m...  In this side of the world... no one buys 9m cables ... its 10m or 15m or say 6m and below if looking for a short one. And do hope mono price get a 10m out at some stage in the range that worked


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## markrubin

Good stuff: subscribed


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## ARROW-AV

alebonau said:


> good to see...
> 
> ... for us in he metric world... I so wish that 2nd category was 10m.... rather than 9m...  In this side of the world... no one buys 9m cables ... its 10m or 15m or say 6m and below if looking for a short one. And do hope mono price get a 10m out at some stage in the range that worked


Well you will be pleased to hear that our next evaluation and testing exercise which will be featuring in our next REPORT #2 will be focusing on cables with lengths ranging 6 - 10m / 20 - 33ft  

Everything will then be covered, in that there is no need to go shorter than this because the *"HDMI PREMIUM Certified Cable”* certification currently covers cables up to 15ft/4.5m in length, but not any longer than this as of right now. 
.


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## jong1

Great report. 

It's good to see there are reliable options that are not crazy expensive. It's also clear that there are no reliable cheap options at these distances. The old adage "all HDMI cables are the same" really does not apply for UHD and it is a shame that all the ancient articles arguing that point continue to come up in newcomer's searches and probably will for a few more years!

I'm a bit unsure about your "additional" recommendation. It seems that although the Gigabit Accelerator was able to "fix" some, presumably borderline, cables, it clearly failed in a number of situations too. At it's current cost it only makes sense, as you say, when there are pre-installed cables that are hard to swap. Since a lot of pre-installed cables are likely to be quite old the failure rate might be very high! Personally, based on your results, I would call the Gigabit Accelerator section "Might be worth trying", rather than "recommended" and I would add that anyone trying this to make an old cable work should make sure they get it from a source with a good quibble-free return policy, as it is quite possible it will not work and you really do not want to be left with a $300 paperweight!


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## cannga

Repost with more data and grammar correction (Grin - Arrow-AV quoted me too quickly.).

System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector. *All results* still pending long term testing, and may not be applicable to your system. I merely want to add to the database.

*1. Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29. Doesn't work. Full refund given by official ebay Monoprice seller.
*2. OLD Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* This 5 year old cable is labeled "Series 1." I did not realize that there have been different versions of Series 1 cables: old (Series 1) and new (Series 1E). This is the old version and it's not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. (It's my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.)
*3. Generic No Name HDMI Cable 10 ft*: Says HDMI 1.3 on the cable (!!). Don't even remember where it came from . 10 ft - Works perfect. That this cable works is key to me regarding high speed HDMI: for once in life, shorter is better LOL. Pending others' input, I would speculate therefore most generic short length cables should work for high speed HDMI function.
*4. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 25 ft - Works perfect.
*5. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft:* "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 35 ft - Works perfect. Very happy with this.
*6. Generic 10 ft HDMI + HDFury Linker + Blue Jeans 1E 35 ft:* For those, particularly JVC RSx00 (cheers), who use the Linker. Here Linker also acts as a bridge to extend connection to 45 ft - Works perfect. 

In number 6, my earlier "theory" of using Linker as a bridge to lengthen copper HDMI connection was tested and worked out perfectly.


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## jrlnc

This is an excellent resource! Thank you for the hard work.


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## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> Great report.
> 
> It's good to see there are reliable options that are not crazy expensive. It's also clear that there are no reliable cheap options at these distances. The old adage "all HDMI cables are the same" really does not apply for UHD and it is a shame that all the ancient articles arguing that point continue to come up in newcomer's searches and probably will for a few more years!
> 
> I'm a bit unsure about your "additional" recommendation. It seems that although the Gigabit Accelerator was able to "fix" some, presumably borderline, cables, it clearly failed in a number of situations too. At it's current cost it only makes sense, as you say, when there are pre-installed cables that are hard to swap. Since a lot of pre-installed cables are likely to be quite old the failure rate might be very high! Personally, based on your results, I would call the Gigabit Accelerator section "Might be worth trying", rather than "recommended" and I would add that anyone trying this to make an old cable work should make sure they get it from a source with a good quibble-free return policy, as it is quite possible it will not work and you really do not want to be left with a $300 paperweight!


Absolutely agree with everything you say here 

I think it's worth bearing in mind from where we are coming, namely the pre-existing recommendation has been Celerity Tek fibre optic cables. Where both cable recommendations resulting from this initial evaluation and testing exercise are in fact *less than HALF* the price of the equivalent Celerity cables! So we are very happy that this has achieved our target objective with respect to sourcing solutions that are both more reliable (check!) and less expensive (check!) as compared with the current recommendation. Where the associated cost with respect to say for example the 50ft/15m length cables has dropped from 400 bucks to 'only' 160 bucks. Not bad at all considering the prices of the cables tested ranged up to including 900 bucks for a single cable! So it's great to see the usual 'more-expensive-does-not-equal-better' phenomenon is applicable in this instance and to see cable towards the lower end of the pricing spectrum winning with respect to best peformance 

You're absolutely right with respect to what you are saying about the Gigabit Accelerator device. Firstly, given its considerably more expensive as compared with the two recommended cables this would obviously never be even considered if new cables are being installed. But we do see a use for it when seeking to upgrade a system that is already installed and where the cable(s) is/are sealed into walls and/or ceiling and hence where replacing the cable with a new one would entail opening up walls and/or ceilings. But you are correct that it's a bit hit-or-miss so what we intend on doing, (which is what other AV dealers / custom installers might like to do) is to hold stock of one or two of the Gigabit Accelerator devices and when presented with such appropriate circumstance you can simply test what is it's functionality with respect to the particular customer's existing HDMI cable and if it works then the customer can purchase the device and you install it for them; but if not, then you install a new cable for them instead. So we are only recommending it for these specific sorts of circumstances 
.


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## MovieRAV

Given that long cables are often used in-wall it would be useful to know the specific ratings of the cable. For example, from what I can see two of the most appealing cable series (Monoprice and RUIPRO fiber optics) may not be explicitly rated for in-wall use. 

For example, the Monoprice 21566 is flame tested to VW-1 but doesn't carry a CL2/CL3 or equivalent rating, and the Monoprice website (http://support.monoprice.com/link/portal/41053/41056/Article/1027/What-are-the-fire-safety-ratings-that-your-cables-are-available-in) states: 

"However, a VW-1 rating does not necessarily mean that the cable is safe to run in wall"


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## ARROW-AV

MovieRAV said:


> Given that long cables are often used in-wall it would be useful to know the specific ratings of the cable. For example, from what I can see two of the most appealing cable series (Monoprice and RUIPRO fiber optics) may not be explicitly rated for in-wall use.
> 
> For example, the Monoprice 21566 is flame tested to VW-1 but doesn't carry a CL2/CL3 or equivalent rating, and the Monoprice website (http://support.monoprice.com/link/portal/41053/41056/Article/1027/What-are-the-fire-safety-ratings-that-your-cables-are-available-in) states:
> 
> "However, a VW-1 rating does not necessarily mean that the cable is safe to run in wall"


The external diameter / width of the Monoprice cables measures 3.5mm... Plus the cables are also highly flexible... 

Therefore, you don't have to run it in-wall. So if you are worried about doing so, then quite simply don't!


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## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> Absolutely agree with everything you say here
> 
> I think it's worth bearing in mind from where we are coming, namely the pre-existing recommendation has been Celerity Tek fibre optic cables. Where both cable recommendations resulting from this initial evaluation and testing exercise are in fact *less than HALF* the price of the equivalent Celerity cables! So we are very happy that this has achieved our target objective with respect to sourcing solutions that are both more reliable (check!) and less expensive (check!) as compared with the current recommendation. Where the associated cost with respect to say for example the 50ft/15m length cables has dropped from 400 bucks to 'only' 160 bucks. Not bad at all considering the prices of the cables tested ranged up to including 900 bucks for a single cable! So it's great to see the usual 'more-expensive-does-not-equal-better' phenomenon is applicable in this instance and to see cable towards the lower end of the pricing spectrum winning with respect to best peformance


Yes, those Monoprice cables clearly have some magic in them and I think it's great Fiber has come down in price. Somehow I suspect that ALL HDMI 2.1 cables will end up being fiber with integrated conversion at the ends, like RUIPRO, at least over 1-2M. Can't see how electrical cables are going to cut it. Sounds like there is some work to do to even get (consumer-priced) fiber to work at 48Gbps though!!


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## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> Yes, those Monoprice cables clearly have some magic in them and I think it's great Fiber has come down in price. Somehow I suspect that ALL HDMI 2.1 cables will end up being fiber with integrated conversion at the ends, like RUIPRO, at least over 1-2M. Can't see how electrical cables are going to cut it. *Sounds like there is some work to do to even get (consumer-priced) fiber to work at 48Gbps though!!*


Shhhhh! Don't mention 48Gbps! Everytime anyone does that I immediately go cross-eyed and suffer a spontaneous migraine headache! Best not to think about such matters!


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## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> Shhhhh! Don't mention 48Gbps! Everytime anyone does that I immediately go cross-eyed and suffer a spontaneous migraine headache! Best not to think about such matters!


Oops. I was just going to post something about that. Nevermind


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## Sweetmeat

Thank you. As others have said, this is very useful information. Thank you.


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## cyberguyjeff

Well done: subscribed


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## Laserion

Great great report! Congrats and thanks.

I like my 100ft RUIPRO cable a lot. According to me it deserved to be in 1st place.  100% success @100ft and 50% @165ft


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## markrubin

question about shorter cables that reliably support 18GBPS

I need 12-15 foot cables to connect a Kaleidescape Strato and OPPO 205 to a Sony 940D

10 foot cables work fine but when I go to 15 foot length, only the certified premium cables work: and they are too thick/heavy: 
a slim cable would work but I have yet to find one that is certified premium

any suggestions?

tia


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## cannga

cannga said:


> Repost with more data and grammar correction (Grin - Arrow-AV quoted me too quickly.).
> 
> System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector. *All results* still pending long term testing, and may not be applicable to your system. I merely want to add to the database.
> 
> *1. Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29. Doesn't work. Full refund given by official ebay Monoprice seller.
> *2. OLD Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* This 5 year old cable is labeled "Series 1." I did not realize that there have been different versions of Series 1 cables: old (Series 1) and new (Series 1E). This is the old version and it's not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. (It's my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.)
> *3. Generic No Name HDMI Cable 10 ft*: Says HDMI 1.3 on the cable (!!). Don't even remember where it came from . 10 ft - Works perfect. That this cable works is key to me regarding high speed HDMI: for once in life, shorter is better LOL. Pending others' input, I would speculate therefore most generic short length cables should work for high speed HDMI function.
> *4. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 25 ft - Works perfect.
> *5. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft:* "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 35 ft - Works perfect. Very happy with this.
> *6. Generic 10 ft HDMI + HDFury Linker + Blue Jeans 1E 35 ft:* For those, particularly JVC RSx00 (cheers), who use the Linker. Here Linker also acts as a bridge to extend connection to 45 ft - Works perfect.
> 
> In number 6, my earlier "theory" of using Linker as a bridge to lengthen copper HDMI connection was tested and worked out perfectly.



Ran my 3 ft HDMI + Linker + Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft, all outside of wall without any problem.

Got a taste of just how fickle long distance HDMI connection is: As my cable "snakes" from projector towards the BD player, at the player's end there are a bunch of other cables in the area: power cables, digital cable, internet cable, etc. If I lower the Blue Jeans towards other cables, I lose signal. If I raise the Blue Jeans higher to separate from others, signal comes back. I didn't want to test this too much for now because just wanted to leave well enough alone, but would add *electromagnetic interference* as one reason why these long, high speed, HDMI cables drop signal. I would think the prime suspect are the 110 v power cables/lines.

While reading up on this topic, I came across a post in the past of someone testing with Blue Jeans 1E 25 ft that worked fine "outside," then stopped working once he pulled it through the ceiling (apparently a nightmare ); it was a puzzle to me back then. EMI as the cause makes sense out of this scenario. Difference between Blue Jeans *may* be that it has better isolation.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ could the "lowering" of the cable be due to strain on the HDMI input and not necessarily EMI inteference? Would it be possible to disconnect the other cables as a test and just connect the HDMI cable and then move it up and down?


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## cannga

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ could the "lowering" of the cable be due to strain on the HDMI input and not necessarily EMI inteference? Would it be possible to disconnect the other cables as a test and just connect the HDMI cable and then move it up and down?


Good point. No in my case there is no strain because the connection is a "loose" point, Blue Jeans 35 ft connects to HDFury which connects to SSP with 3 ft cable, hence connection of Blue Jeans to HDFury hangs loosely. In addition I did (unintentionally) test the strain at the projector pretty good - bending connector up and down there causes no loss.

I am so elated that it works that I am not trying to reproduce the signal loss situation for now (blue screen once, and white noisy screen once, which nearly broke my heart ). This silly issue is so nerve wracking and if there were a single inventor for HDMI *he should be fired* .


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## Otto Pylot

cannga said:


> Good point. No in my case there is no strain because the connection is a "loose" point, Blue Jeans 35 ft connects to HDFury which connects to SSP with 3 ft cable, hence connection hang loosely. In addition I did (unintentionally) test the strain at the projector pretty good - bends connector up and down there causes no loss.
> 
> I am so elated that it works that I am not trying to reproduce the signal loss situation for now (blue screen once, and white noisy screen once, which nearly broke my heart ). This silly issue is so nerve wracking and if there were a single inventor for HDMI *he should be fired* .


Damn! One would think with the quality of most cables made today that EMI would not be an issue. Some of my cables are literally touching each other and I have no signal issues at all. Of course I'm only pushing 1080p at the moment so maybe the higher video standards have yet another "fickle factor". It could also be an intermittent issue with the HDFury or something else in the chain? How about if you zip tie the cables together and see if you can reproduce it? If not, then it's not EMI and you just have a gremlin that will hopefully will move onto someone else


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## cannga

Otto Pylot said:


> Damn! One would think with the quality of most cables made today that EMI would not be an issue. Some of my cables are literally touching each other and I have no signal issues at all. Of course I'm only pushing 1080p at the moment so maybe the higher video standards have yet another "fickle factor". It could also be an intermittent issue with the HDFury or something else in the chain? How about if you zip tie the cables together and see if you can reproduce it? If not, then it's not EMI and you just have a gremlin that will hopefully will move onto someone else


Yeah I could only think of 4 parameters that influence performance:
*1.* Size of cable: 24 g of Monoprice vs 23.5 g of Blue Jeans Belden series 1. Doesn't seem big enough of a difference.
*2. *Physical bending: perhaps in severe case and not in my case.
*3.* Signal loss from length: A few feet difference? Just doesn't seem likely but I could be wrong.
*4.* *Signal integrity* affected by length: EMI being the devil.

Of the 4, EMI seems to me the most likely candidate of how things get messed up with long distance HDMI. We know long distance RCA cables pick up hum, it's not too far fetched IMHO to make this connection to HDMI. All speculative of course and yes I hope that white screen gremlin moves onto the next unfortunate victim . 

I bought 2 Blue Jeans to test, 25 ft and 35 ft, was going to return the 25 ft but ended up running it parallel to the 35 just in case LOL. The headache is not just worth it and plus I am hoping to have calibrator extraordinaire @Chad B coming to calibrate so can't take a chance!


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## Sweetmeat

I just bought the 33' RUIPRO from Amazon. We'll see if that works when watching Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

cannga said:


> Yeah I could only think of 4 parameters that influence performance:
> *1.* Size of cable: 24 g of Monoprice vs 23.5 g of Blue Jeans Belden series 1. Doesn't seem big enough of a difference.
> *2. *Physical bending: perhaps in severe case and not in my case.
> *3.* Signal loss from length: A few feet difference? Just doesn't seem likely but I could be wrong.
> *4.* *Signal integrity* affected by length: EMI being the devil.
> 
> Of the 4, EMI seems to me the most likely candidate of how things get screwed up with long distance HDMI. We know long distance RCA cables pick up hum, it's not too far fetched IMHO to make this connection to HDMI. All speculative of course and yes I hope that white screen gremlin moves onto the next unfortunate victim .
> 
> I bought 2 Blue Jeans to test, 25 ft and 35 ft, was going to return the 25 ft but ended up running it parallel to the 35 just in case LOL. The headache is not just worth it and plus I am hoping to have calibrator extraordinaire @Chad B coming to calibrate so can't take a chance!


It's a good idea to keep both cables, just in case. 10' may be the difference. It will be interesting to see what Chad has to say. Good luck!


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## Kazz063

Great report, thanks for all of your hard work, looking forward to the next report. 

I'm happy to see alternatives to the Celerity cables as mine worked for about a month and then stopped working at full bandwidth, not what I had hoped for at that price given that they are $400 here in Australia.


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## jong1

Very sorry to hear that, but surely you can just get it replaced under warranty?


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## Kazz063

jong1 said:


> Very sorry to hear that, but surely you can just get it replaced under warranty?


The distributor here were dragging their feet on "testing" the faulty cable so the retailer refunded me and will deal with the distributor, so all good here.


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## ARROW-AV

cannga said:


> Ran my 3 ft HDMI + Linker + Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft, all outside of wall without any problem… Got a taste of just how fickle long distance HDMI connection is: As my cable "snakes" from projector towards the BD player, at the player's end there are a bunch of other cables in the area: power cables, digital cable, internet cable, etc. If I lower the Blue Jeans towards other cables, I lose signal. If I raise the Blue Jeans higher to separate from others, signal comes back. I didn't want to test this too much for now because just wanted to leave well enough alone, but would add *electromagnetic interference* as one reason why these long, high speed, HDMI cables drop signal. I would think the prime suspect are the 110 v power cables/lines… While reading up on this topic, I came across a post in the past of someone testing with Blue Jeans 1E 25 ft that worked fine "outside," then stopped working once he pulled it through the ceiling (apparently a nightmare ); it was a puzzle to me back then. EMI as the cause makes sense out of this scenario. Difference between Blue Jeans *may* be that it has better isolation.


Nice idea and whilst we are not saying the it is not possible that EMI may possibly contribute to some degree in some instances towards an HDMI cable have issues passing video signals, please kindly note that with respect to all of our tests in all instances all cables were tested as 'PRE-INSTALLATION' in other words, NONE were installed into walls or ceilings; and the environment has one of the lowest/non-existent EMI you can possibly find within a residential environment. (Happy to elaborate if you wish).  

But please do not misinterpret our saying so as implying that you are imagining things… Where all we are saying this that we can rule out EMI as being an influencing factor with respect to our evaluation and testing exercise. And that if it does indeed transpire to be an issue then this would simply be yet another thing to add to the list of possible causes of cable signal failures 


markrubin said:


> question about shorter cables that reliably support 18GBPS… I need 12-15 foot cables to connect a Kaleidescape Strato and OPPO 205 to a Sony 940D… 10 foot cables work fine but when I go to 15 foot length, only the certified premium cables work: and they are too thick/heavy: a slim cable would work but I have yet to find one that is certified premium… any suggestions?


Hi Mark, We would recommend the 6m long RUIPRO. Whilst you don't need it 6m long the cable is highly flexible, very thin, and 100% reliable. It’s perfect for your needs. 
Regarding the premium certified cables, we would like to know more regarding precisely how and to what extent these cables are tested, plus wait to hear a sufficiently considerable quantity of feedback from users, plus carry out some of our own tests, all of which before we ourselves will personally be vouching for these cables. 

Sorry, if we are ‘Doubting Thomases’ in this regard but we have experienced too many instances of things that are supposed to deliver whatever performance only to discover that the reality is that in practice they fail to do so… Where we both hope and expect all of these cables to all pass 18 Gbps 100.0% of the time consistently, reliably, and without exception, but we just need for our own peace of mind to make absolutely definitively positively sure 



Kazz063 said:


> Great report, thanks for all of your hard work, looking forward to the next report.


We’d like to thank everyone for their kind words and positive feedback. We are nuts about AV and like to be able to positively contribute to AV communities like this one 



Kazz063 said:


> I'm happy to see alternatives to the Celerity cables as mine worked for about a month and then stopped working at full bandwidth, not what I had hoped for at that price given that they are $400 here in Australia.


For what it’s worth, we already have word that one of the Celerity cables that PASSED our testing which we provided to a business associate for installation into his company’s showroom facilities, was working initially but also subsequently failed… and they cost GBP £400 here in the UK! Given our experience to date we have concluded that they unfortunately are just not as reliable as some people think they are… 

That said, we should add that same applies to fibre optic HDMI cables in general, in that whilst it is definitely the superior technology regards succeeding in reliably delivering 18Gbps, it cannot be taken for granted or assumed that any and all fibre optic cables will deliver the same perfect perrformance as eachother, because we have already determined that there is a significant variance in performance between the various fibre optic technology based HDMI cable products that we evaluated and tested, and so there is still the need to cherry-pick the cables which are confirmed by tests and/or indicated by user feedback to be the best performing.



jong1 said:


> Very sorry to hear that, but surely you can just get it replaced under warranty?


Yes, however that's a royal pain in the arse for everyone concerned... especially as compared with using a cable that delivers nothing but perfect performance every time... where we even found the (possible) need to connect power via USB to be an additional negative, let alone the now proven unreliability and cable failures... So sorry, but we won't be buying Celerity again and neither will any of our business associates or clients... 
.


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## markrubin

^^^

thanks: I did order the 6m long RUIPRO

btw: I think this thread should be a sticky soon: great resource


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## ARROW-AV

Laserion said:


> Great great report! Congrats and thanks.
> 
> I like my 100ft RUIPRO cable a lot. According to me it deserved to be in 1st place.  100% success @100ft and 50% @165ft


We love the RUIPRO cables too, and if it the manufacturer was willing to ship to Australasia, Europe, United Kingdom and other International Countries via AMAZON, using Amazon's AMAZONGLOBAL international shipping service or otherwise, then the RUIPRO cables would have indubitably TIED FIRST PLACE  
.
.


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## jong1

Kazz063 said:


> The distributor here were dragging their feet on "testing" the faulty cable so the retailer refunded me and will deal with the distributor, so all good here.


That's great to hear.



ARROW-AV said:


> Yes, however that's a royal pain in the arse for everyone concerned... especially as compared with using a cable that delivers nothing but perfect performance every time... where we even found the (possible) need to connect power via USB to be an additional negative, let alone the now proven unreliability and cable failures... So sorry, but we won't be buying Celerity again and neither will any of our business associates or clients...
> .


Fortunately, my 8 month-old Celerity cable is still working perfectly and, for reasons I still don't understand, but am not complaining about, only cost me £140!! But, yes, I can only agree with you. Credit to Celerity for being first out there with a solution that worked, but it's impossible to justify choosing it now when there appears to be an even more robust solution out there at a much lower price. 

A fiber cable with fully integrated HDMI converters and no need for external power does, indeed, sound like a better way forward. Only time will tell, though, if RUIPRO have any reliability issues; this is all still really cutting-edge stuff, after all. Which brings us back to what has been said a lot in the "what works" thread - a strong recommendation that even if using one of the recommended solutions *cables should be put in conduit* so they can be swapped out if there is any issue in future!


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## ARROW-AV

markrubin said:


> ^^^
> 
> thanks: I did order the 6m long RUIPRO
> 
> btw: I think this thread should be a sticky soon: great resource


We are hoping is won't be long before we will be posting our follow-up REPORT #2 which will be comprehensively evaluating and testing 6m - 10m length cables, so we hope to be able to highlight some other alternatives and options 



jong1 said:


> That's great to hear.
> 
> Fortunately, my 8 month-old Celerity cable is still working perfectly and, for reasons I still don't understand, but am not complaining about, only cost me £140!! But, yes, I can only agree with you. Credit to Celerity for being first out there with a solution that worked, but it's impossible to justify choosing it now when there appears to be an even more robust solution out there at a much lower price.
> 
> A fiber cable with fully integrated HDMI converters and no need for external power does, indeed, sound like a better way forward. Only time will tell, though, if RUIPRO have any reliability issues; this is all still really cutting-edge stuff, after all. Which brings us back to what has been said a lot in the "what works" thread - a strong recommendation that even if using one of the recommended solutions *cables should be put in conduit* so they can be swapped out if there is any issue in future!


 We definitely agree that it is a good idea to install cables into a conduit where possible and in certain circumstances we'd even suggest running a spare cable too depending on budget and affordability etc. which given the prices of the current recommended cables are much less expensive than the likes of the Celerity cables (how the hell did you buy one for £140?   ) then it is now more economically viable to do so. That said, what with these cables only being a few millimetres in diameter they can very easily be simply run surface mounted and/or concealed via top-dressings such as at the join between floors and walls, underneath carpets/rugs or below/behind skirtings etc... Which is one of the reasons we love these sorts of cables, in that there are endless possibilities installation-wise; which is very refreshing indeed, expecially as compared with cables 12-15mm/half-inch+ thick with an accompanying wide bending radius 
.


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> ......with these cables only being a few millimetres in diameter they can very easily be simply run surface mounted and/or concealed via top-dressings such as at the join between floors and walls, underneath carpets/rugs or below/behind skirtings etc... Which is one of the reasons we love these sorts of cables, in that there are endless possibilities installation-wise; which is very refreshing indeed, expecially as compared with cables 12-15mm/half-inch+ thick with an accompanying wide bending radius
> .


That is also a great idea.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE: *Hi folks, just to let everyone know, in addition to our upcoming second lot of evaluation and testing (with respect to 6 - 10m/ 20 - 33ft length HDMI cables) we will also be evaluating and testing the next three sizes/lengths upwards with respect to the winning cables _(MONOPRICE | SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices [email protected], YUV4:4:4)_ namely 75ft/23m; 100ft/30m; and 150ft/46m length cables.

With respect to the runner-up cables _(RUIPRO | Ultra-Slim HDMI Active Optical Fibre Cable Light Speed Bandwidth 18G)_ these passed all of our tests in all instances with respect to cable lengths up to and including 100ft/30m, but not with respect to cable lengths longer than this.

We tested the winning cables up to and including 50ft/15m, so we figure it will be good to determine what is the performance of the longer length (75ft/23m; 100ft/30m; and 150ft/46m) cables, especially as compared with the RUIPRO.
.


----------



## Laserion

Wasn't this one planned to be tested? I already had concluded my research and succeded 18gbps but i was really wondering to see performance of this cable which claims supporting 22gbps. Price is also not very high level.

49ft Ultra HIGH SPEED HDMI 22Gb Fiber Optic/Hybrid Cable 4Kx2K/60Hz

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6860


SM-G925F cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## ac388

Connecting 203 directly to a Epson 5040(10.2 Gbps chip) ..... if I am using a 30ft. Monoprice SlimRun cable, will my 203 output a 'HDR/BT2020 4:2:2/12 bit' or 'SDR/BT709 4:2:0/8bit' signal ? Even though, I understand the Epson will only display a SDR picture on this 'Billy Lynn UHD disc', because of the 10.2 chip .

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Kazz063

ARROW-AV said:


> For what it’s worth, we already have word that one of the Celerity cables that PASSED our testing which we provided to a business associate for installation into his company’s showroom facilities, was working initially but also subsequently failed… and they cost GBP £400 here in the UK! Given our experience to date we have concluded that they unfortunately are just not as reliable as some people think they are…


Not good to hear of more failures, especially at the prices they go for, GBP £400  and I thought $400 AUD was expensive...............



ARROW-AV said:


> Yes, however that's a royal pain in the arse for everyone concerned... especially as compared with using a cable that delivers nothing but perfect performance every time... where we even found the (possible) need to connect power via USB to be an additional negative, let alone the now proven unreliability and cable failures... So sorry, but we won't be buying Celerity again and neither will any of our business associates or clients...


You're not wrong about it being a pain in the backside, you think you finally have the holy grail only for it to fail and then have to return it and work out what to use next. At least these reports will be a great help for this last step.


----------



## G-Rex

ARROW-AV said:


> We love the RUIPRO cables too, and if it the manufacturer was willing to ship to Europe and other International Countries and the cables were not slightly more expensive then it would have indubitably TIED FIRST PLACE


Did the RUIPRO sync/lock on the signal as fast as the Monoprice Optical?


----------



## ARROW-AV

Laserion said:


> Wasn't this one planned to be tested? I already had concluded my research and succeded 18gbps but i was really wondering to see performance of this cable which claims supporting 22gbps. Price is also not very high level.
> 
> 49ft Ultra HIGH SPEED HDMI 22Gb Fiber Optic/Hybrid Cable 4Kx2K/60Hz
> 
> http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6860
> 
> SM-G925F cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


It looks like that one slipped through the net... But don't worry, there's bound to be other new cables being released, further to those we have tested so far, similarly claiming 18Gbps+ performance at lengths 50ft/18m+ so what we will do is carry out a second evaluation and testing exercise with respect to this cable size range as and when there is an appropriate quantity, where we can include testing this particular cable 

That said, any and all cables reporting GREATER than 18 Gbps sets off alarm bells as far as we are concerned, and the same applies to other unusually high technical performance marketing claims... For example, one of the cables that we tested claimed *"Guaranteed Ultra Lightning Speed 32.5 GBPS"* and *"48 Bit Deep Color"*! where not only was this information printed on the product packaging but inside the box was provided a printed 'certificate' guaranteeing these performance claims! Seriously. 

Where we happened to send them an email about this with a copy of our test results regarding their cable... We did not receive a response, however we have just checked and interestingly their website's marketing information relating to this cable has now been changed to *"12.2 Gbps high-performance at long-lengths" *and* "Deep Color Support: Up to 10 bit"* 
.


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> Where we happened to send them an email about this with a copy of our test results regarding their cable... We did not receive a response, however we have just checked and interestingly their website's marketing information relating to this cable has now been changed to *"12.2 Gbps high-performance at long-lengths" *and* "Deep Color Support: Up to 10 bit"*
> .


 pwned!


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> pwned!


Incidentally, one of the four cables tested failed all four tests with respect to 9 Gbps video bandwidth... So the new claim of 12.2 Gbps is still a stretch... 

I should add that we have kept the 'Certificate'... We may frame it and wall-mount it in our demonstration centre for posterity 


.


----------



## scarabaeus

ARROW-AV said:


> We love the RUIPRO cables too, and if it the manufacturer was willing to ship to Europe and other International Countries and the cables were not slightly more expensive then it would have indubitably TIED FIRST PLACE


I believe they do, you should ask them.

I ordered directly on ruipro.com instead of Amazon, and they shipped by DHL straight from Hong Kong, so I don't see how they would care which country to ship to. That website is quite a mess right now, but their customer service is very helpful.


----------



## Operon

cannga said:


> Repost with more data and grammar correction (Grin - Arrow-AV quoted me too quickly.).
> 
> System is Oppo 203 straight to JVC RS500 projector. *All results* still pending long term testing, and may not be applicable to your system. I merely want to add to the database.
> 
> *1. Monoprice 25 ft:* "Certified Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" as described on ebay, $29. Doesn't work. Full refund given by official ebay Monoprice seller.
> *2. OLD Blue Jeans Series 1 about 40 ft:* This 5 year old cable is labeled "Series 1." I did not realize that there have been different versions of Series 1 cables: old (Series 1) and new (Series 1E). This is the old version and it's not a surprise that at 40 ft it doesn't work. (It's my hometheater's existing cable that was pulled through wall a few years ago.)
> *3. Generic No Name HDMI Cable 10 ft*: Says HDMI 1.3 on the cable (!!). Don't even remember where it came from . 10 ft - Works perfect. That this cable works is key to me regarding high speed HDMI: for once in life, shorter is better LOL. Pending others' input, I would speculate therefore most generic short length cables should work for high speed HDMI function.
> *4. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 25 ft:* This latest cable is labeled "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 25 ft - Works perfect.
> *5. NEW Blue Jeans Series 1E 35 ft:* "High Speed HDMI Series 1E". Note the E. 35 ft - Works perfect. Very happy with this.
> *6. Generic 10 ft HDMI + HDFury Linker + Blue Jeans 1E 35 ft:* For those, particularly JVC RSx00 (cheers), who use the Linker. Here Linker also acts as a bridge to extend connection to 45 ft - Works perfect.
> 
> In number 6, my earlier "theory" of using Linker as a bridge to lengthen copper HDMI connection was tested and worked out perfectly.


I have a box full of HDMI cables claiming all sorts of super high speeds. But with the move to UHD I have a mix of so-called Certified Premium (CP), cables from BJC or Monoprice. The 15 footer from Monoprice was acting wiggy at the limits so I immediately emailed Monoprice and they, no questions asked, express mailed a replacement pronto not even asking for the bad one to be returned. Problem fixed. Lesson being it helps when you deal with vendors with generous return policies.

I think that one thing that escapes most people is that the certification process is simply pushing the probability curve over into the zone of getting a fully functional cable. HDMI is a bad, bad standard. But for the near future we are stuck with it. My advice:
Look for the CP label
When you buy that cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

Operon said:


> I think that one thing that escapes most people is that the certification process is simply pushing the probability curve over into the zone of getting a fully functional cable. HDMI is a bad, bad standard. But for the near future we are stuck with it. My advice:
> Look for the CP label
> When you buy that cable


The problem with certification is that there is not a unified standard that all who claim certification follow. So you have no real idea of what is involved. HDMI.org has their own certification program with the testing being performed all over the world by Authorized Testing Centers (ATC's) who all follow the same protocol testing procedures as designed by HDMI.org. Any cable mfr can sign up and have their cables tests. The tested cables will come with a counterfeit-proof label of authenticity. BJC has a testing program and I think they may in fact use ATC's for their cables. If a cable is marketed as "Premium High Speed HDMI" then that is the copyrighted label for an ATC tested cable. Other cable mfrs have their own in-house testing program that may or may not be as complete as an ATC. DPL Labs is one that comes to mind. Certification is a slippery slope, again depending on what is involved. Some just test the cable of a given length in a straight line and if it passes, it's certified. Then, the rest of that lot of cable length is "certified" and sold. Others will test a representative number of cable lengths from a given lot with bend radius, and other factors involved.


----------



## Operon

Otto Pylot said:


> The problem with certification is that there is not a unified standard that all who claim certification follow. So you have no real idea of what is involved. HDMI.org has their own certification program with the testing being performed all over the world by Authorized Testing Centers (ATC's) who all follow the same protocol testing procedures as designed by HDMI.org. Any cable mfr can sign up and have their cables tests. The tested cables will come with a counterfeit-proof label of authenticity. BJC has a testing program and I think they may in fact use ATC's for their cables. If a cable is marketed as "Premium High Speed HDMI" then that is the copyrighted label for an ATC tested cable. Other cable mfrs have their own in-house testing program that may or may not be as complete as an ATC. DPL Labs is one that comes to mind. Certification is a slippery slope, again depending on what is involved. Some just test the cable of a given length in a straight line and if it passes, it's certified. Then, the rest of that lot of cable length is "certified" and sold. Others will test a representative number of cable lengths from a given lot with bend radius, and other factors involved.


Yes. Agreed. There was a poster who was having obvious HDMI cable issues with a manufacturer that claimed DPL certification. Which I viewed as dubious though I have no data to suspect that other than the poster's issues. As you know there are manufacturers swearing on a stack of bibles all sorts of bandwidth up and down the line but turn out to be less than honest marketing hype. Now the the cat's out of the bad with respect to the bandwidth requirements for full UHD transport, we're gonna see the hype magnified making The National Inquirer seem like hard news. Breaking news... 18 Gbs, we swear. Honest. Cross our hearts.


----------



## Otto Pylot




----------



## markrubin

I would not depend on HDMI.org to straighten out this mess: after all, they created it


----------



## ARROW-AV

markrubin said:


> I would not depend on HDMI.org to straighten out this mess: after all, they created it


https://youtu.be/xxoMqs7iGqk?t=2


----------



## Basa14

markrubin said:


> ^^^
> 
> thanks: I did order the 6m long RUIPRO
> 
> btw: I think this thread should be a sticky soon: great resource


AVS'ers,

Where do you get the 6m Ruipro cable? On Amazon, at least in the States, they start at 10 m cables.

Thank you for this excellent resource,

Basa14


----------



## Sweetmeat

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Basa14 said:


> AVS'ers,
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the 6m Ruipro cable? On Amazon, at least in the States, they start at 10 m cables.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for this excellent resource,
> 
> 
> 
> Basa14




I bought the RUIPRO 33' from Amazon and tested it with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. It worked!

Free 2 day shipping with Prime, which is why I chose it over Monoprice.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## guitarguy316

i guess i'll wait for the results on the 6ft cables...need to re-cable but only need 6ft length.

would these work?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GCGKI3O/ref=abs_brd_tag_dp?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## jong1

guitarguy316 said:


> i guess i'll wait for the results on the 6ft cables...need to re-cable but only need 6ft length.
> 
> would these work?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GCGKI3O/ref=abs_brd_tag_dp?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


It should, but if it doesn't it should be easily swapped. They are Certified Premium after all


----------



## guitarguy316

jong1 said:


> It should, but if it doesn't it should be easily swapped. They are Certified Premium after all


wonder what the difference is or why the amazon cables aren't certified? 
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...id=1494439196&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+cable&th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

guitarguy316 said:


> wonder what the difference is or why the amazon cables aren't certified?
> https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...id=1494439196&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+cable&th=1


The biggest drawback about selling or reselling certified cables, whether it be by an ATC or some other program is cost. Certification is not cheap, especially HDMI.org's standardized ATC program. A lot of cable mfrs just don't want to pay the on-going cost to have their cables properly certified and authenticated. They seem to do quite well with their slick marketing and carefully worded claims.


----------



## guitarguy316

Otto Pylot said:


> The biggest drawback about selling or reselling certified cables, whether it be by an ATC or some other program is cost. Certification is not cheap, especially HDMI.org's standardized ATC program. A lot of cable mfrs just don't want to pay the on-going cost to have their cables properly certified and authenticated. They seem to do quite well with their slick marketing and carefully worded claims.


yeah, makes sense. reason i ask is all my equipment is using amazon's 18gbps files and i don't have any issues so i don't see a reason to change them unless i'm missing out on some better PQ somewhere.


----------



## Otto Pylot

guitarguy316 said:


> yeah, makes sense. reason i ask is all my equipment is using amazon's 18gbps files and i don't have any issues so i don't see a reason to change them unless i'm missing out on some better PQ somewhere.


Cables can not improve video and audio quality. You either get the signal from the source without issues or you don't. If you don't have any dropouts, sparkles, etc then you're getting the best you can.


----------



## guitarguy316

Otto Pylot said:


> Cables can not improve video and audio quality. You either get the signal from the source without issues or you don't. If you don't have any dropouts, sparkles, etc then you're getting the best you can.


thanks, i have some issues here or there with my oppo 203 but those are more of well known issues with the oppo than hdmi cables.


----------



## Basa14

Sweetmeat said:


> I bought the RUIPRO 33' from Amazon and tested it with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. It worked!
> 
> Free 2 day shipping with Prime, which is why I chose it over Monoprice.
> 
> View attachment 2128561
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for the info!

Basa14


----------



## jong1

Sweetmeat said:


> I bought the RUIPRO 33' from Amazon and tested it with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. It worked!


Just to be clear to all those doing their own testing.....

Even when testing with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk (a 60fps UHD Blu-ray) _you still have to be 100% sure that your player is outputting *4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit*_. Only in that one mode is the player sending 18Gbps. It is quite likely, even probable, that by default your player will use 4K/60 4:2:0 10-bit, which only requires 11.1Gbps and so comes nowhere near to testing the limits of HDMI 2.0.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Basa14 said:


> AVS'ers,
> 
> Where do you get the 6m Ruipro cable? On Amazon, at least in the States, they start at 10 m cables.
> 
> Thank you for this excellent resource,
> 
> Basa14





markrubin said:


> Good morning
> 
> I got the33 foot Ruipro cable and it works!
> 
> now I am trying to buy more but in 20 foot length and they appear to be out of stock: can you help me find a source to order more 20 foot cables? I am going to replace all my long HDMI cables with these
> 
> Mark


Yes, unfortunately it looks like quite a few people have been purchasing the 20ft/6m RUIPRO cables causing them run out of stock... But this also happened with respect to the longer cables too, where these were restocked pretty quckly... So our recommendation is to either wait for these to be restocked, which shouldn't be very long, or alternatively simply purchase the 30ft/9m Monoprice cables which are only $16 more expensive if you purchase these with free shipping via Amazon: *Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, [email protected], YUV4:4:4, 30ft * 
.


----------



## Sweetmeat

jong1 said:


> Just to be clear to all those doing their own testing.....
> 
> 
> 
> Even when testing with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk (a 60fps UHD Blu-ray) _you still have to be 100% sure that your player is outputting *4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit*_. Only in that one mode is the player sending 18Gbps. It is quite likely, even probable, that by default your player will use 4K/60 4:2:0 10-bit, which only requires 11.1Gbps and so comes nowhere near to testing the limits of HDMI 2.0.




Thank you @jong1, this is very helpful information. I'll check my settings tonight and see if I can force my player to send 4:2:2 12 bit.

Does the movie need to be 4:2:2 12 bit to make this a valid test? Is Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4:2:2 12 bit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jong1

Sweetmeat said:


> Thank you @jong1, this is very helpful information. I'll check my settings tonight and see if I can force my player to send 4:2:2 12 bit.
> 
> Does the movie need to be 4:2:2 12 bit to make this a valid test? Is Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4:2:2 12 bit?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem. No, all Blu-ray (UHD and HD) are 4:2:0 on disc. All HDR10 discs (currently all UHD HDR discs!) are 10-bit. But, it's still possible on some players (e.g. Oppo) to force 4:2:2 12-bit output. If you cannot force 4:2:2 the alternative is to play non-HDR 4K/60Hz in YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB mode. 4K/60 4:4:4 8-bit is also 18Gbps. But, note, this has to be *non-HDR* as 4K/60 4:4:4 is not possible at more than 8-bit depth and if you play an HDR title it will drop the chroma subsampling down, probably to 4:2:0! Hope that's clear  .


----------



## ARROW-AV

Sweetmeat said:


> I bought the RUIPRO 33' from Amazon and tested it with Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. It worked!
> 
> *Free 2 day shipping with Prime, which is why I chose it over Monoprice.*


The Monoprice cables are also available from Amazon with free shipping with Prime  

SEE: *Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, [email protected], YUV4:4:4 | 30ft/9m  *

AND: *Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, [email protected], YUV4:4:4 | 50ft/15m *


.


----------



## 996911

Wow, great resource. Thank you!


----------



## St.Louis Mac

Basa14 said:


> Thank you for the info!
> 
> Basa14


Wow.. I really could have used this thread last month when I was redoing everything in my HT. 

I went through a nightmare changing cables multiple times and 4 different AVR's. No one is putting information like this out and so I think this is a great thread that needs to be passed on to every forum out on the web... 

I have a 50' run to my new 65" LG oled e6 and was at my wits end... Multiple phone calls to Denon, Pioneer, Marantz, My CableMart, I scrapped the idea of a long hdmi cable(including fiber optic) and went with a shielded cat 6 set up which works great with no drop outs or handshake issues. 

While it's certainly not as cheap, it's a lot easier to run in my home where I have to run it. My original run is next to impossible to get to without tearing up the room. 



Thanks for starting this thread 

Mac


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ shielded CAT-6. Is that a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable or a solid core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS) that you have to terminate the ends either with HDBT or some other type of active termination?


----------



## St.Louis Mac

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ shielded CAT-6. Is that a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable or a solid core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS) that you have to terminate the ends either with HDBT or some other type of active termination?


I am assuming it's just a regular shielded cat-6 patch. 

When I started calling different companies for cables that would work, the only one that guaranteed their stuff over 30' were these folks.. I spent 2 weeks sold trying everything to work right 

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdbaset-2-0-hdmi-extender.html. They sent me this link from which I ordered 

I got everything from them including 2 6' cables to go from the Air into the balin and from the other receiver balin to the display. 

I've played 5 different 4k movies and tons of other ones so far and everything is working well with no issues (knock wood).. 

I'll have to go get the "Long Walk Home" movie and try the 4:4:4 setting since the ones that I have don't say anything about this on it.. Shouldn't be a since my Oppo 203 has all the settings.. 

Mac


----------



## jong1

For Long Walk, as in Arrow-AV's test, to fully test your system you need to set the Oppo to output 4:2:2 12-bit.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

jong1 said:


> For Long Walk, as in Arrow-AV's test, to fully test your system you need to set the Oppo to output 4:2:2 12-bit.


OK Thanks.. I'll see if I can get it tonite or tomorrow. 

I just tried it with Fantastic Beast and it took it forcing it to 12 bit 4:2:2 just fine but since it's being tested with Long Walk, I might as well get that disc to be sure everything is working properly.. 

Mac


----------



## Otto Pylot

St.Louis Mac said:


> I am assuming it's just a regular shielded cat-6 patch.
> 
> When I started calling different companies for cables that would work, the only one that guaranteed their stuff over 30' were these folks.. I spent 2 weeks sold trying everything to work right
> 
> http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdbaset-2-0-hdmi-extender.html. They sent me this link from which I ordered
> 
> I got everything from them including 2 6' cables to go from the Air into the balin and from the other receiver balin to the display.
> 
> I've played 5 different 4k movies and tons of other ones so far and everything is working well with no issues (knock wood)..
> 
> I'll have to go get the "Long Walk Home" movie and try the 4:4:4 setting since the ones that I have don't say anything about this on it.. Shouldn't be a since my Oppo 203 has all the settings..
> 
> Mac


Cool. If you've got your cabling working the way you want then stick with it. Most of the time HDBT is used in conjunction with solid core CAT-6 (not terminated) and not CAT-6 patch because the wires are solid copper, individually insulted, and a thicker gauge. The cable is usually stiffer than patch cable but that makes it a lot easier to fish thru a conduit (which you should be using if you have along, in-wall run). Just be mindful of the bend radius.

You need to be careful with HDBT because some of them still use the older chipsets and may not be able to give you the performance you need for long runs. The other advantage of solid core CAT-6 in-conduit is that you can run another cable or two and use one of them to extend your ethernet connection (which is what I do) using a punchdown keystone jack (instead of HDBT) so that you can hardwire your HTS instead of depending on WiFi. Solid core in-conduit will probably give you better performance as the video standards become more demanding because ethernet patch cable will just not be able to handle the bandwidth. The only disadvantage of HDBT, at this point in time, is that you will have wait for the chipsets to be upgraded. But HDBT is external to the cable so fishing cable, in theory, shouldn't have to happen. This will especially be true once fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets are included with new devices. Again, conduit is your friend in case you need to run a fiber optic cable.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

Otto Pylot said:


> Cool. If you've got your cabling working the way you want then stick with it. Most of the time HDBT is used in conjunction with solid core CAT-6 (not terminated) and not CAT-6 patch because the wires are solid copper, individually insulted, and a thicker gauge. The cable is usually stiffer than patch cable but that makes it a lot easier to fish thru a conduit (which you should be using if you have along, in-wall run). Just be mindful of the bend radius.
> 
> You need to be careful with HDBT because some of them still use the older chipsets and may not be able to give you the performance you need for long runs. The other advantage of solid core CAT-6 in-conduit is that you can run another cable or two and use one of them to extend your ethernet connection (which is what I do) using a punchdown keystone jack (instead of HDBT) so that you can hardwire your HTS instead of depending on WiFi. Solid core in-conduit will probably give you better performance as the video standards become more demanding because ethernet patch cable will just not be able to handle the bandwidth. The only disadvantage of HDBT, at this point in time, is that you will have wait for the chipsets to be upgraded. But HDBT is external to the cable so fishing cable, in theory, shouldn't have to happen. This will especially be true once fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets are included with new devices. Again, conduit is your friend in case you need to run a fiber optic cable.


Thanks.. 

I wish I had conduit to the display, it would make my life a whole lot easier... Lol.. Unfortunately I don't have, and I already know the hassle getting fiber over the ceiling to it.. It's a real pita trying to get any cable ran, and since I know that I have to cut in access panels yet just to get wire to my Atmos speakers, I might just try to get this done to so I won't have to fight with it any more. 

I'm driving my wife nuts with all of this and spending way too much time working on it, instead of just enjoying it... Oh well 

I do have 1 more question... You asked about "active termination"...? I have to have power going to the transmitter and the receiver balins.. What your asking is something different correct? 

Thanks again 

Mac


----------



## jong1

St.Louis Mac said:


> OK Thanks.. I'll see if I can get it tonite or tomorrow.
> 
> I just tried it with Fantastic Beast and it took it forcing it to 12 bit 4:2:2 just fine but since it's being tested with Long Walk, I might as well get that disc to be sure everything is working properly..
> 
> Mac


 Fantastic Beasts (24 fps) will only need 8.9 Gbps (half the max) even using 4:2:2 12-bit, which is why it is so important to make sure you use the right source material _and_ the right video mode when testing. Of course, depending on when you forced 4:2:2 12-bit, it's possible some menus were 60 Hz and really tested 18 Gbps, but you'll feel safer when you have watched a few hours at that bitrate.


----------



## Otto Pylot

St.Louis Mac said:


> I do have 1 more question... You asked about "active termination"...? I have to have power going to the transmitter and the receiver balins.. What your asking is something different correct?
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Mac


No. Active termination is terminating the cable with some sort of power supply to power the chipsets for error correction, timing, etc. It's the same thing as using an active HDMI cable. The chipsets are in the sink end (tv side) and they draw a little power from the HDMI input.


----------



## kwindrem

*HDbaseT 2.0 does not support HDMI 2.0a 18 Gb/s!*



jong1 said:


> Fantastic Beasts (24 fps) will only need 8.9 Gbps (half the max) even using 4:2:2 12-bit, which is why it is so important to make sure you use the right source material _and_ the right video mode when testing.


I can't agree more. I'm finding specs missing key factors. For example, the WolfPack HDBaseT 2.0 extenders mentioned above specs "HDMI 2.0 4K2K @ 60Hz with YCbCr 4:2:0" bit do NOT specify number of bits per pixel. 8 bit (aka 24 bit) takes significantly less bandwidth. Only 12 bit (aka 36 bit) uses the full 18 Gb/s rates at 4K2K @ 60Hz YCbCr 4:2:0. Interestingly, later on in the specs, they do fully describe support at 1080p: "Full HD support at 1080p @ 60Hz @ 24/36/48bit/pixels." So I have to conclude 10 and 12 bit pixel depths are not supported at 4K rates.

Even the HDbaseT 2.0 spec does not commit to the full 18 Gb/s required to support HDMI 2.0a/b. Wikipedia has this to say about HDbaseT 2.0 for video: "Due to bitrate limitations of 10.2 Gbit/s instead of the required 18 Gbit/s in the HDMI 2.0 specification, HDBaseT 2.0 can only support 4K at 30 Hz not the full 60 Hz."

And at this link:

http://www.cepro.com/article/handling_4k_distribution_using_hdbaset_2_0#

"HDMI 2.0 and HDBaseT 2.0 are not fully compatible when it comes to bandwidth. Transmitting 4K content over 60Hz requires the “full envelope” of 18Gbps bandwidth in HDMI 2.0, but HDBaseT 2.0 does not extend beyond the 10.2Gbps bandwidth found in HDMI 1.4."

In fact, HDMI 2.0 a, b or whatever supports 4K @ 60 4:4:4 but only at 8 bits (aka 24 bits) per pixel but does not support 4K @ 60 4:4:4 with 10 or 12 bits per pixel. The only way to get 10 or 12 bits per pixel is to drop down to 24 or 30 frames per second or to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 color subsampling.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ unfortunately the HDMI 2.0a/b chipsets are still not full available yet in all devices that are active for the higher video standards, be it HDBT or active HDMI cables. There's a lot of "older" cable inventory still out in the marketplace for sale. And, finding out which chipset(s) are installed is almost impossible. This is why video technology is still outpacing the connection technology, regardless of what the cable mfrs and/or resellers market their products as. This is only going to get a lot worse once HDMI 2.1 is fully available in the devices, especially for folks with runs longer than about 10' - 15'. A standardized form of cable certification is desperately needed but the only truly standardized one is HDMI.org's ATC program, which is expensive and not used by everyone.


----------



## 996911

Can confirm that THIS RUIPRO worked flawlessly! Thanks for a great thread.


----------



## apw2607

Can anyone comment on ARC support with the Monoprice winning cable. Reading some of the comments on the Monoprice website ARC appears to be a issue. It would be great if the testers could also test ARC support with these long cables. Thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

If the cable says it supports ARC, which most, if not all current high speed HDMI cables do, then that shouldn't be a problem. The issues that most have with ARC/CEC is not the cable itself but the non-standardized protocols in the devices which results in an incompatibility issue. For systems that have individual control over ARC and CEC they should be better at handling that because CEC can be disabled, which seems to be the culprit. All you can do is try.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

kwindrem said:


> I can't agree more. I'm finding specs missing key factors. For example, the WolfPack HDBaseT 2.0 extenders mentioned above specs "HDMI 2.0 4K2K @ 60Hz with YCbCr 4:2:0" bit do NOT specify number of bits per pixel. 8 bit (aka 24 bit) takes significantly less bandwidth. Only 12 bit (aka 36 bit) uses the full 18 Gb/s rates at 4K2K @ 60Hz YCbCr 4:2:0. Interestingly, later on in the specs, they do fully describe support at 1080p: "Full HD support at 1080p @ 60Hz @ 24/36/48bit/pixels." So I have to conclude 10 and 12 bit pixel depths are not supported at 4K rates.
> 
> Even the HDbaseT 2.0 spec does not commit to the full 18 Gb/s required to support HDMI 2.0a/b. Wikipedia has this to say about HDbaseT 2.0 for video: "Due to bitrate limitations of 10.2 Gbit/s instead of the required 18 Gbit/s in the HDMI 2.0 specification, HDBaseT 2.0 can only support 4K at 30 Hz not the full 60 Hz."
> 
> And at this link:
> 
> http://www.cepro.com/article/handling_4k_distribution_using_hdbaset_2_0#
> 
> "HDMI 2.0 and HDBaseT 2.0 are not fully compatible when it comes to bandwidth. Transmitting 4K content over 60Hz requires the “full envelope” of 18Gbps bandwidth in HDMI 2.0, but HDBaseT 2.0 does not extend beyond the 10.2Gbps bandwidth found in HDMI 1.4."
> 
> In fact, HDMI 2.0 a, b or whatever supports 4K @ 60 4:4:4 but only at 8 bits (aka 24 bits) per pixel but does not support 4K @ 60 4:4:4 with 10 or 12 bits per pixel. The only way to get 10 or 12 bits per pixel is to drop down to 24 or 30 frames per second or to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 color subsampling.


I questioned them when I bought it...hmmm... The atlona one shows something more http://www.hdtvsupply.com/atlona-at-uhd-ex-70c-kit.html

I'm getting really confused about all of this 

I'm not a gamer nor am I trying to expand my my ethernet.. It's just being fed from my Marantz 7711 Avr which has a Oppo 203, a TiVo Bolt and a Firestick.. 

Do I need more than what I have to get the best I can??? 

Thanks 

Mac


----------



## kwindrem

St.Louis Mac said:


> The atlona one shows something more http://www.hdtvsupply.com/atlona-at-uhd-ex-70c-kit.html
> 
> Do I need more than what I have to get the best I can???


It is always possible the specs are out of date. The specs in the manual for the Atlona unit also shows a 10.2 Gb/s limit not 18 Gb/s.

What you actually need depends on the content you are interested in and the devices that provide the video. The Oppo BDP-203 should allow you to set up to pass native resolution which in most cases is within the 10.2 Gb/s limit. I'm not familiar with the Tivo so can't say if you'd need 18 Gb/s. The FireStick is not UHD(4K) so that won't be an issue 

The Sony UBP-x800 has at least some control over how discs are handled but from what I've read in the owner's thread has locked in streaming to 60 Hz output. So in that case, 18 Gb/s is needed for HDR, which is wasteful.


----------



## jong1

kwindrem said:


> The Sony UBP-x800 has at least some control over how discs are handled but from what I've read in the owner's thread has locked in streaming to 60 Hz output. So in that case, 18 Gb/s is needed for HDR, which is wasteful.


It's this kind of thing that is the biggest problem. Most people are only interested in video and all commercial video is natively 4:2:0. Most HDR movies are 4K/24 10-bit, so actually don't need to push the boundaries of the spec. But, because source devices expect all modes up to 18Gb/s to be supported, some use them "because they're best" or simply because it's easier to use just one, like 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit (18Gb/s). I don't know if it's still true but the Chromecast Ultra was one such device, that used (maybe still uses) 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit, even for its backdrop slideshow.

So, all your current devices may work fine without all HDMI 2.0 modes working. If you don't plan on changing for some time it may be fine to relax and accept it. But, especially if installing a new system, without knowing what devices you will want to connect in the coming years, it's pretty important to make sure HDMI 2.0b is fully supported.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

kwindrem said:


> It is always possible the specs are out of date. The specs in the manual for the Atlona unit also shows a 10.2 Gb/s limit not 18 Gb/s.
> 
> What you actually need depends on the content you are interested in and the devices that provide the video. The Oppo BDP-203 should allow you to set up to pass native resolution which in most cases is within the 10.2 Gb/s limit. I'm not familiar with the Tivo so can't say if you'd need 18 Gb/s. The FireStick is not UHD(4K) so that won't be an issue
> 
> The Sony UBP-x800 has at least some control over how discs are handled but from what I've read in the owner's thread has locked in streaming to 60 Hz output. So in that case, 18 Gb/s is needed for HDR, which is wasteful.


Thanks. 

I don't have any Sony products in the mix, my display is a 2016 LG oled65e6p and the Firestick TV second gen is the one that I have. 

My HT is my primary viewing area and I am interested in having it setup to give us the best picture quality, so if changing or upgrading the cabling to get this then I will,however I just don't want to throw money away in the process, if it's not necessary for what I am doing. Like I said, I am not gaming with it, and don't plan on doing it either. We are about 50/50% regular TV and movies here as well as music so this is what my needs are for. I don't see any other component changes for several years, but know that there will be firmware updates for what I have right now... 

With as fast as everything is changing, the last thing I want to do is to have to change the cabling again, so.. I guess I need to find out about the cat 6 cable to see if it's capable of handling the load.. HDTV supply said that it would, but with everything that folks here have said has me worried that it won't. 

Thanks again 

Mac

Edit 

I just ordered a 50' solid core from Bluejeans, so I can take that out of the equation.. I'll have to wait until the dust settles on all of the standards for changing the Baluns if I have to..


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keep in mind that cables can not give you better video or audio fidelity. They either work or they don't. A $15 cable can give you the exact same pq that a $60 cable can all things being the same.

Accurately and consistently delivering 18Gbps is still difficult for distances over about 20'. Some cable work and some don't. There are lots of factors involved so it's just not distance alone. The ARROW-AV testing is a good place to start. Just pick your distance and see if that cable works. We can't stress the use of a conduit enough if your distance requires an in-wall installation. Regardless of what cables are out there today, they will not be able to handle the upcoming video standards (HDMI 2.1) so you will be swapping out those cables if you want to run a fully compliant HDMI 2.1 system. Or, you can install an active fiber optic cable now and hopefully the termination ends can be upgraded as soon as the newer chipsets become available. If you do run conduit, throw in an extra solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) cable, along with a pull-string, just in case for future use. The only true way to "future proof" your system is to use conduit.

BTW, a solid core CAT-6 cable is usually sold in 25' or longer spools and does not come terminated. You either need to terminate it with a punchdown keystone jack if you want to use it to extend your ethernet connection or some sort of active termination like HDBT for video.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that cables can not give you better video or audio fidelity. They either work or they don't. A $15 cable can give you the exact same pq that a $60 cable can all things being the same.
> 
> Accurately and consistently delivering 18Gbps is still difficult for distances over about 20'. Some cable work and some don't. There are lots of factors involved so it's just not distance alone. The ARROW-AV testing is a good place to start. Just pick your distance and see if that cable works. We can't stress the use of a conduit enough if your distance requires an in-wall installation. Regardless of what cables are out there today, they will not be able to handle the upcoming video standards (HDMI 2.1) so you will be swapping out those cables if you want to run a fully compliant HDMI 2.1 system. Or, you can install an active fiber optic cable now and hopefully the termination ends can be upgraded as soon as the newer chipsets become available. If you do run conduit, throw in an extra solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) cable, along with a pull-string, just in case for future use. The only true way to "future proof" your system is to use conduit.
> 
> BTW, a solid core CAT-6 cable is usually sold in 25' or longer spools and does not come terminated. You either need to terminate it with a punchdown keystone jack if you want to use it to extend your ethernet connection or some sort of active termination like HDBT for video.


Thanks Otto.. 

I'm going with the solid cat 6 but it's not going to be in the ceiling and the folks at Bluejeans are terminating it for me. While not as pretty as having a wallplate, at least for now I'm not having to tear into the walls. Once all the new standards are out, I'll move it up and put it in conduit. 

Mac


----------



## Otto Pylot

St.Louis Mac said:


> Thanks Otto..
> 
> I'm going with the solid cat 6 but it's not going to be in the ceiling and the folks at Bluejeans are terminating it for me. While not as pretty as having a wallplate, at least for now I'm not having to tear into the walls. Once all the new standards are out, I'll move it up and put it in conduit.
> 
> Mac


Just make sure that the folks at BlueJeans, who are really good to work with, have the same understanding about what solid core is. The cable needs to be solid copper wire, usually 24AWG, and not Copper Coated Steel (CCS). Otherwise, you're just getting CAT-6 ethernet patch cable.


----------



## St.Louis Mac

Otto Pylot said:


> Just make sure that the folks at BlueJeans, who are really good to work with, have the same understanding about what solid core is. The cable needs to be solid copper wire, usually 24AWG, and not Copper Coated Steel (CCS). Otherwise, you're just getting CAT-6 ethernet patch cable.


Thanks again Otto.. According to Jeff at Bluejeans they don't sell the ccs stuff.. So I think I am good to go this time... :smile:

Mac


----------



## Dizzy810

MovieRAV said:


> Given that long cables are often used in-wall it would be useful to know the specific ratings of the cable. For example, from what I can see two of the most appealing cable series (Monoprice and RUIPRO fiber optics) may not be explicitly rated for in-wall use.
> 
> For example, the Monoprice 21566 is flame tested to VW-1 but doesn't carry a CL2/CL3 or equivalent rating, and the Monoprice website (http://support.monoprice.com/link/portal/41053/41056/Article/1027/What-are-the-fire-safety-ratings-that-your-cables-are-available-in) states:
> 
> "However, a VW-1 rating does not necessarily mean that the cable is safe to run in wall"


If you read further down in that link provided it states that:

Non-Copper Cables
All of the fire safety ratings we have mentioned so far are for copper based cables. We are often asked if our optical cables are able to be run in wall. The brief answer is, yes they are. Our fiber optic cables are OFNR rated, Optical fiber nonconductive riser. This means that the cables have been tested to resist a fire should they come in contact with fire. As these cables to not carry any electricity, they themselves could not become the cause of a fire in the event of an electrical surge.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> ...The only true way to "future proof" your system is to use conduit...


*OR* run your cable hidden but surface mounted such that it can be readily accessed and/or replaced at any time, such as using reliable 18Gbps HDMI cables that are only circa 3mm in external diameter, which can be invisibly run along/behind/under skirtings, carpets, rugs etc... Do this and there's no need to open up walls, ceilings, or use a conduit  But otherwise yes absolutely 

*UPDATE:* Hi folks, so we just received delivery of the longer length winning Monoprice cables, namely 75ft/23m, 100ft/31m, and 150ft/46m; where we will be carrying out the same testing and evalution on these and will post this REPORT #2 on here shortly with the results. The one thing that immediately struck us was just how ridiculously comparatively small is the box that contains 12 cables at these very long lengths where initial impressions are that the 150ft/46m length cables rolled up are smaller in size than some of the 50ft/15m cables that we tested, which is crazy... We'll take some comparative photos to illustrate this. 

After that we will be covering the 'shorter-longer-length' cables, namely 20ft/6m - 33ft/10m, which we will publish as our REPORT #3. 
.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> *OR* run your cable hidden but surface mounted such that it can be readily accessed and/or replaced at any time, such as using reliable 18Gbps HDMI cables that are only circa 3mm in external diameter, which can be invisibly run along/behind/under skirtings, carpets, rugs etc... Do this and there's no need to open up walls, ceilings, or use a conduit  But otherwise yes absolutely


That's true if such a small cable can reliably push 18Gbps over a long distance and the enduser doesn't mind the surface mount look.


----------



## jong1

The Celerity cable is pretty thin. Dont know about the RUIPRO.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> The Celerity cable is pretty thin. Dont know about the RUIPRO.


We are referring to the winning Monoprice cables. These are circa 3mm diameter. 

The Celerity are the same diameter as the winning Monoprice cables, being also circa 3mm diameter, but in our experience and as illustrated by our testing and evaluation exercise these are unfortunately not as reliable with respect to delivering 18Gbps as the Monoprice or the RUIPRO.

The RUIPRO are also thin, but not as thin as the respective Monoprice cables (or Celerity), being 5mm diameter.



Otto Pylot said:


> That's true if such a small cable can reliably push 18Gbps over a long distance and the enduser doesn't mind the surface mount look.


There is no _"surface mounted look"_ the cables are completely invisible... We'll take some photos of the respective Monoprice cables as compared with some of the other cables, and we will include some details with diagrams within our REPORT #2 to illustrate both the size differences and how we are going about installing these into customers homes such that they are both readily accessable and invisible, without the need to open up walls, ceilings, or install conduits... Where everyone will be welcome to copy us 
.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> There is no _"surface mounted look"_ the cables are completely invisible...


Excellent! Sounds almost too good to be true


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent! Sounds almost too good to be true


All you have to do is buy some Unicorn Tears, coat the cables, and bingo they become invisible!  

But seriously, it's best explained via some diagrams, so we will include this within our next report


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> We are referring to the winning Monoprice cables. These are circa 3mm diameter.


 I thought there must be black magic in those cables, but had never looked at their spec and thought they were electrical. Now I see they too are fiber and it all makes sense


----------



## ARROW-AV

jong1 said:


> I thought there must be black magic in those cables, but had never looked at their spec and thought they were electrical. Now I see they too are fiber and it all makes sense


They are indeed.  


It's worth noting that whilst they are directional unlike most other fiber optic based HDMI cables they don't need to be powered via connecting the cable to a powered USB socket. You have a cable with HDMI plugs on either end. For all intensive purposes it looks just like a regular HDMI cable except for the fact that the cable is very thin. You simply plug the HDMI plugs labeled 'Source' and 'Display' accordingly, and that's it, your done, and all your HDMI problems and headaches are over... 

...Well at least until HDMI 2.1 is launched! 

The same applies with respect to both the Monoprice and Ruipro cables. Where the only difference is the Ruipro cables are slightly thicker being 5mm external diameter as compared with circa 3mm. Both cables are fibre optic. But both are a fraction of the price of many other fibre optic HDMI cables, many of which as it happens do not properly or reliably support 18Gbps and HDMI 2.0b
.


----------



## jong1

Yeah, I realised RUIPRO were fiber, but somehow missed that about the Monoprice.


----------



## jfh24

ARROW-AV said:


> Well you will be pleased to hear that our next evaluation and testing exercise which will be featuring in our next REPORT #2 will be focusing on cables with lengths ranging 6 - 10m / 20 - 33ft
> 
> Everything will then be covered, in that there is no need to go shorter than this because the *"HDMI PREMIUM Certified Cable”* certification currently covers cables up to 15ft/4.5m in length, but not any longer than this as of right now.
> .


This is great, as I'm just redoing my room. Do you have any idea when "Report #3" might be out. 

Thanks again


----------



## MovieRAV

Dizzy810 said:


> If you read further down in that link provided it states that:
> 
> Non-Copper Cables
> All of the fire safety ratings we have mentioned so far are for copper based cables. We are often asked if our optical cables are able to be run in wall. The brief answer is, yes they are. Our fiber optic cables are OFNR rated, Optical fiber nonconductive riser. This means that the cables have been tested to resist a fire should they come in contact with fire. As these cables to not carry any electricity, they themselves could not become the cause of a fire in the event of an electrical surge.


Thank you for providing that very useful and interesting information. Clearly I should have read the page more carefully! 

Interestingly, I don't see an OFNR rating for the SlimRun 21566 optical cable. I do see a VW-1 rating, which is a fire safety rating for copper-based cables according to the above excerpt from Monoprice. In my case, surface mounting the cable is not a great option because I am using a ceiling mounted projector. I will probably contact Monoprice for clarification - the SlimRun otherwise seems like a great product!


----------



## wakewatcher

Can someone give me the dimensions of the Ruipro terminations. Doesn't do me any good to have small diameter wires if I can't make the bends in the conduit. And I'm not sure the radius of the bends as its all behind the walls now. But at least I have conduit! thx.


----------



## ruipro

wakewatcher said:


> Can someone give me the dimensions of the Ruipro terminations. Doesn't do me any good to have small diameter wires if I can't make the bends in the conduit. And I'm not sure the radius of the bends as its all behind the walls now. But at least I have conduit! thx.



Please find the below image of the dimension.


The radius of the bends is like that you can bend the cable around your thumb.


----------



## ruipro

sorry that I am a new member of the FORUM then I can not post a link about the dimension.


----------



## ruipro

here!


----------



## ruipro

Hello everyone,

I am very glad to access this tread and very happy to meet all of you.
Appreciate everyone here that you choose our cable and hope it can solve the HDMI2.0b long distance connection issue.
Appreciate Mr. Arrow much about the testing report and the effort!

I am the director of Ruipro brand.
Can I leave my email here to service you?
Thank you very much!


----------



## Marc Drake

ruipro said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am very glad to access this tread and very happy to meet all of you.
> Appreciate everyone here that you choose our cable and hope it can solve the HDMI2.0b long distance connection issue.
> Appreciate Mr. Arrow much about the testing report and the effort!
> 
> I am the director of Ruipro brand.
> Can I leave my email here to service you?
> Thank you very much!


Hello there young man & Welcome Aboard

You must be from Suniin Tech in GuangDong...

You are more than welcome to leave your email here to service us if you wish.

Love your work btw & your AOC's rock!!

Take care


----------



## warnija

apw2607 said:


> Can anyone comment on ARC support with the Monoprice winning cable. Reading some of the comments on the Monoprice website ARC appears to be a issue. It would be great if the testers could also test ARC support with these long cables. Thx


I bought the Slim Run HDR cable and it does NOT support ARC. I have also posted this on the Monoprice website because their customer service reps have said that it does support it. So you will need to use TOSLink if you want ARC when using this cable.


----------



## ruipro

Marc Drake said:


> Hello there young man & Welcome Aboard
> 
> You must be from Suniin Tech in GuangDong...
> 
> You are more than welcome to leave your email here to service us if you wish.
> 
> Love your work btw & your AOC's rock!!
> 
> Take care


Thank you very much!
my official email is [email protected]


----------



## qualos

Thank you for the review

After weeks of issues with drop outs from my Pana 900 to my Sony VPL-VW5000es via the Lumagen Radiance Pro (fitted with 18GHZ cards). I am now successfully watching with no drop outs at this stage after 2 hours. Normally I would see drop outs every 5 minutes.

I went with the Monoprice recommended cable in 50ft. I will continue to test over the weekend and report back if I have any issues. I was going to buy the Ruipro as another option/backup but Amazon wouldn't ship to Australia.


----------



## Marc Drake

warnija said:


> I bought the Slim Run HDR cable and it does NOT support ARC. I have also posted this on the Monoprice website because their customer service reps have said that it does support it. So you will need to use TOSLink if you want ARC when using this cable.


Monoprice's own spec sheet for these cables don't make any claims regarding arc. in-fact, arc is not even mentioned..

Considering these are inexpensive 'directional' hybrid non certified over length cables that have been made to fill a niche void (at this time) in the marketplace, I reckon they do a dam good job 

btw, I would take whatever answer you receive from a 15yo pimple faced online 'service' rep with a pinch of salt


----------



## Marc Drake

qualos said:


> Thank you for the review
> 
> After weeks of issues with drop outs from my Pana 900 to my Sony VPL-VW5000es via the Lumagen Radiance Pro (fitted with 18GHZ cards). I am now successfully watching with no drop outs at this stage after 2 hours. Normally I would see drop outs every 5 minutes.
> 
> I went with the Monoprice recommended cable in 50ft. I will continue to test over the weekend and report back if I have any issues. I was going to buy the Ruipro as another option/backup but Amazon wouldn't ship to Australia.


You are correct comrade qualos, Amazon won't ship these Ruipro's down under 

Should you end up needing one though, contact [email protected] direct. You can pay via PayPal and he will ship worldwide.

My 15 metre Ruipro was DHL'd in 3 days & as per Arrow's report, it's absolutely superb


----------



## alebonau

Marc Drake said:


> You are correct comrade qualos, Amazon won't ship these Ruipro's down under
> 
> Should you end up needing one though, contact [email protected] direct. You can pay via PayPal and he will ship worldwide.
> 
> My 15 metre Ruipro was DHL'd in 3 days & as per Arrow's report, it's absolutely superb


strangely and if this is the one on amazon,
https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber...06XGDFCSC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

doesnt look like amazon sells the 10m ? even if we could get it in oz

I dont know why we suddenly dont have 10m cables seems to be 15m+ ?

just like the mono price that is either 9m or 15m ? whats wrong with 10m all of a sudden ?  

is there a way to buy the mono price in au ? or ship to au I wonder ?

i still worry with active cables... they can fail... and some of these are pricey !!! so much rather buy local in that case... but not sure any resellers of either in australia..


----------



## Marc Drake

alebonau said:


> strangely and if this is the one on amazon,
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber...06XGDFCSC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> doesnt look like amazon sells the 10m ? even if we could get it in oz
> 
> I dont know why we suddenly dont have 10m cables seems to be 15m+ ?
> 
> just like the mono price that is either 9m or 15m ? whats wrong with 10m all of a sudden ?
> 
> is there a way to buy the mono price in au ? or ship to au I wonder ?
> 
> i still worry with active cables... they can fail... and some of these are pricey !!! so much rather buy local in that case... but not sure any resellers of either in australia..


From memory alebonau, Amazon did have a 30ft Ruipro listed some time back?? not a 100% on that though. 

Also as the US still uses the imperial format, 30ft which is a 'standard rounded length', equals 9m not 10 (just a theory..)

Anyways, you could drop our new friend Thomas (from Ruipro) an email as they may have a 10m available.

Failing that, send me a pm as I now have a plan B for cable attainment here in Oz 

btw, Monoprice's online store will ship to us here down under. However, their postage price is absolutely outrageous


----------



## alebonau

Marc Drake said:


> From memory alebonau, Amazon did have a 30ft Ruipro listed some time back?? not a 100% on that though.
> 
> Also as the US still uses the imperial format, 30ft which is a 'standard rounded length', equals 9m not 10 (just a theory..)
> 
> Anyways, you could drop our new friend Thomas (from Ruipro) an email as they may have a 10m available.
> 
> Failing that, send me a pm as I now have a plan B for cable attainment here in Oz
> 
> btw, Monoprice's online store will ship to us here down under. However, their postage price is absolutely outrageous


thanks marc. believe or not my 10m office works $59 heavy gauge comsol cable seems to work for even billy lyn uhd. 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...long-hdmi-cables-what-works.html#post45106042

its also a conventional rather than active cable. but its only cable i have running. and wondering too if something more "capable" might improve this hand shake wise which can take some 17sec with the jvc. though understand this is a bit of a norm ! but again am not sure many have tried any of the cables in the test reports here 

with oppo 205,









with pana ub900


----------



## StephenBishop

Marc Drake said:


> Monoprice's own spec sheet for these cables don't make any claims regarding arc. in-fact, arc is not even mentioned..
> 
> Considering these are inexpensive 'directional' hybrid non certified over length cables that have been made to fill a niche void (at this time) in the marketplace, I reckon they do a dam good job
> 
> btw, I would take whatever answer you receive from a 15yo pimple faced online 'service' rep with a pinch of salt


 HDMI 1.4 specifies support for ARC, and Monoprice claims on its website that the cable supports all the features contained in the latest HDMI specification (which of course includes ARC).


----------



## Marc Drake

alebonau said:


> thanks marc. believe or not my 10m office works $59 heavy gauge comsol cable seems to work for even billy lyn uhd.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...long-hdmi-cables-what-works.html#post45106042
> 
> its also a conventional rather than active cable. but its only cable i have running. and wondering too if something more "capable" might improve this hand shake wise which can take some 17sec with the jvc. though understand this is a bit of a norm ! but again am not sure many have tried any of the cables in the test reports here
> 
> with oppo 205,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with pana ub900


Gee alebonau, you've gotta be happy with that result though 

Love your work


----------



## Marc Drake

StephenBishop said:


> HDMI 1.4 specifies support for ARC, and Monoprice claims on its website that the cable supports all the features contained in the latest HDMI specification (which of course includes ARC).


We are not talking about HDMI v1.4. Anyways, their information is correct because ARC is not listed as a feature of the latest HDMI spec! (v2.0b) (Ref: hdmi.org)

I know it's a technicality, but it's simply not there.


----------



## StephenBishop

Marc Drake said:


> We are not talking about HDMI v1.4. Anyways, their information is correct because ARC is not listed as a feature of the latest HDMI spec! (v2.0b) (Ref: hdmi.org)
> 
> I know it's a technicality, but it's simply not there.


I am not talking about hdmi 1.4 either! I was merely pointing out that ARC is specified in hdmi 1.4 and per hdmi.org all hdmi versions are fully backwards compatible with all previous hdmi versions (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=4#13). So v2.0b should have 100% of the functionality of v1.4 which of course means including ARC.


----------



## Marc Drake

StephenBishop said:


> I am not talking about hdmi 1.4 either! I was merely pointing out that ARC is specified in hdmi 1.4 and per hdmi.org all hdmi versions are fully backwards compatible with all previous hdmi versions (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=4#13). So v2.0b should have 100% of the functionality of v1.4 which of course means including ARC.


Yes it should (we all know that) but it doesn't say that. That's what I'm trying to tell you 

Don't shoot the messenger young man 

Lets move on shall we..


----------



## scarabaeus

StephenBishop said:


> I am not talking about hdmi 1.4 either! I was merely pointing out that ARC is specified in hdmi 1.4 and per hdmi.org all hdmi versions are fully backwards compatible with all previous hdmi versions (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=4#13). So v2.0b should have 100% of the functionality of v1.4 which of course means including ARC.


I can't talk about the Monoprice, but I did have some ARC/CEC issues with the 15m RuiPro. The wires seem to be unshielded, and should probably be coax for this length.

I was able to send 48 kHz audio over ARC, but it would drop out every time a CEC message was being transmitted. This indicates that there is crosstalk between the CEC and Utility/HEAC+/ARC wires due to a lack of shielding.

And I was not able to send 192 kHz audio (Dolby Digital Plus), this indicates a non-coax ARC connection.

See my original report here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-30.html#post52738361

So, there is no guarantee that ARC works for you on long cables, even optical ones, since ARC will still be copper.


----------



## StephenBishop

Marc Drake said:


> Yes it should (we all know that) but it doesn't say that. That's what I'm trying to tell you
> 
> Don't shoot the messenger young man
> 
> Lets move on shall we..


The Monoprice statement on its website is incorrect. Yes we should move on.


----------



## STAIN0

Just purchased the RUIPRO 50' via their website 
question is, is there iny harm in rolling up any excess cable? i only need about 35'


----------



## ruipro

scarabaeus said:


> I can't talk about the Monoprice, but I did have some ARC/CEC issues with the 15m RuiPro. The wires seem to be unshielded, and should probably be coax for this length.
> 
> I was able to send 48 kHz audio over ARC, but it would drop out every time a CEC message was being transmitted. This indicates that there is crosstalk between the CEC and Utility/HEAC+/ARC wires due to a lack of shielding.
> 
> And I was not able to send 192 kHz audio (Dolby Digital Plus), this indicates a non-coax ARC connection.
> 
> See my original report here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-30.html#post52738361
> 
> So, there is no guarantee that ARC works for you on long cables, even optical ones, since ARC will still be copper.



Dear Scarabae,

Thank you for your report!
Yes, you are right the ARC is transmitted by copper. 
From the description you mentioned, it is right that the ARC issue is rcaused by the unshield wire for transmitting ARC/CEC.
Only the SDA/SCL wires are shielded currently.
The ARC maybe interfered by the low frequency signal outside sometimes.
We are developing to solve this issue.

Thank you very much,
Thoams
[email protected]


----------



## ruipro

STAIN0 said:


> Just purchased the RUIPRO 50' via their website
> question is, is there iny harm in rolling up any excess cable? i only need about 35'


Hi Stain,

It is no problem to rolling up the excess cable.
The cable can be bended around you thumb.

Thank you


----------



## scarabaeus

ruipro said:


> Yes, you are right the ARC is transmitted by copper.
> From the description you mentioned, it is right that the ARC issue is rcaused by the unshield wire for transmitting ARC/CEC.
> Only the SDA/SCL wires are shielded currently.
> The ARC maybe interfered by the low frequency signal outside sometimes.
> We are developing to solve this issue.


Thank you! I am always welcoming product improvements, and I am glad to see that you guys are caring enough to improve your already top of the market product.


----------



## STAIN0

ruipro said:


> Hi Stain,
> 
> It is no problem to rolling up the excess cable.
> The cable can be bended around you thumb.
> 
> Thank you


Hi ruipro,
i ordered a cable from your website a few days ago, but have not received any confirmation email or shipping details.
Can you please confirm for me my order has been processed and shipped?
As i am in Australia i do expect it will take some time to arrive, dont want to wait weeks then contact you only to find there was some issue with the order and it was never shipped.


----------



## ruipro

STAIN0 said:


> Hi ruipro,
> i ordered a cable from your website a few days ago, but have not received any confirmation email or shipping details.
> Can you please confirm for me my order has been processed and shipped?
> As i am in Australia i do expect it will take some time to arrive, dont want to wait weeks then contact you only to find there was some issue with the order and it was never shipped.


Hi Ben,

I confirmed that the cable was shipped 3 days ago and we had sent you an email.
The TNT tracking number is GD318090659WW.
Please double check, thank you.

Thomas


----------



## RapalloAV

Guys has anyone had any experience with this cable from Monoprice only short runs 6'?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15428&seq=1&format=2

Are most that state 18GHz ok at short runs of 6'?


----------



## StephenBishop

RapalloAV said:


> Guys has anyone had any experience with this cable from Monoprice only short runs 6'?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15428&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Are most that state 18GHz ok at short runs of 6'?


I am using these Monoprice 6' certified premium cables for all my short runs and they seem to work without any problem.


----------



## bolmsted

Just reading through this thread and considering prewiring my basement with some of these fibre optic HDMI cables and some conduits while the basement is open.

I already wired a 3571 Monoprice Commercial Silver Series Standard HDMI® Cable, 35ft Black cable in the floor joists when I was pulling speaker wires, cat6, rg6 through the house/basement.

Can I use these Monoprice 30/50 foot cables (21566/21567) (or Ruipro but more expensive) with wall plates/keystones on the wall/ceiling for the projector and plug in a HDMI cable (does it have to be "premium" HDMI?) to my AV Receiver and future projector? (I would probably have to get the 50 foot cable and coil up the rest as 30 foot is too short)

I understand the whole source/display requirement but can I feed an AV Receiver with various devices (BD/UBD, Media box, etc) and then go to a keystone wall plate which connects in the wall to one of these fibre optic cables to the ceiling wall/keystone plate which would then have another cable to the projector?

Monoprice seems to indicate not to do this but I wanted to see what experience people have with a keystone setup. I understand the voltage may drop if going through keystones but I'm only talking a short distance of 3-6' on either end of the keystone - enough to connect to the devices.

My local dealer sells an Optical HDMI cable (Active Fiber Optic AOC High Speed HDMI Cable – Ultra HD 4k x 2k HDMI Cable – 15m (50 ft)) for $450CDN which is significantly more than the Monoprice cables either from them directly or from primecables.com a Canadian distributor (I could probably by 2 sets for 2 4K feeds). Anyway he claims that they have no problem with running the cables with wall plates - do it all the time.

Do I need to have other joiner cables in the wall to make the turn to a wall plate keystone if I am able to do this sort of setup or is there enough bend in these fibre optic cables? I put 2 Monoprice 6061 (8inch 28AWG High Speed HDMI® With Ethernet Male to Female Port Saver - Black) on the ends of the 3571 in the wall/box for the projector cable but perhaps this isn't necessary for the fibre cables.

I'd like to avoid having cables dangling out of the wall or ceiling to hook up to the AV Receiver and projector.


My current AV receiver (Denon AVR4310ci) is HDMI1.3 I believe so I would have to upgrade to a HDMI 2.1 receiver in a few years when 4K takes off. I currently have an Oppo-BDP103 and kodi box connected to it but I have the video hdmi for the Oppo connected to my Samsung KS8000 directly to upscale the Blurays which look amazing. I could upgrade to a Oppo BDP-203 and do the same thing to get 4K video and have the sound go to my receiver which supports Dolby TruHD/DTS Master Audio (just no HDMI 1.4/2.x or Dolby Atmos) so it still works for me. My receiver supports 2 video outputs but unfortunately not 4K so I'll have to look for another that can do this (TV or Projector) (any current recommendations?)



Also, I see a lot of mention of running conduits to pull cables through - what do you recommend to use for this? How big of a diameter and lengths available? Not sure if something like this one at Lowes would work at 3/4" diameter to pull a future HDMI cable and/or cat6 cables through - that is duck taping a couple of these 10 foot lengths together??? I'm not sure if it comes in 1" diameters I guess I could put 2 new fibre optic cables in these along with another spare run. Any other recommendations?

Do you run them through the floor joists in the basement and how big of a hole do/can you make in the joists to run these? I've been googling and it seems to indicate you can make holes that are no bigger than 1/3 of the size of the joist (e.g. 2x10 would be 10/3 or a whopping 3.33 inches - don't think I would go that big) and it can't be within 2" of the top of bottom of the joist. Not sure if these specs are everywhere. If you have I joists you can go up to 4" holes provided it is not on the ends, etc

I don't really want to run inside a bulkhead as I'm trying to minimize the size of the bulkheads so that I'll be able to squeeze a 100" motorized electric drop screen in a joist space behind a heating duct where the screen can drop 2 feet so the duct won't cover the screen.


So what cables do you recommend I prewire with before I insulate the ceiling (safe and sound) and drywall it? I'll have to put an electrical outlet inside the ceiling for the drop screen to plug into inside the ceiling, and an exposed outlet on the ceiling for the projector with the 3 HDMI ports on the ceiling (existing HDMI and 2 fibre optic HDMI ports). I also ran some mono cables in the ceiling which i understand I can use a a trigger for the projector and screen. I need to prewire the ceiling with some space for some Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers too I guess.


----------



## jong1

bolmsted said:


> Just reading through this thread and considering prewiring my basement with some of these fibre optic HDMI cables and some conduits while the basement is open.
> 
> I already wired a 3571 Monoprice Commercial Silver Series Standard HDMI® Cable, 35ft Black cable in the floor joists when I was pulling speaker wires, cat6, rg6 through the house/basement.
> 
> Can I use these Monoprice 30/50 foot cables (21566/21567) (or Ruipro but more expensive) with wall plates/keystones on the wall/ceiling for the projector and plug in a HDMI cable (does it have to be "premium" HDMI?) to my AV Receiver and future projector? (I would probably have to get the 50 foot cable and coil up the rest as 30 foot is too short)
> 
> I understand the whole source/display requirement but can I feed an AV Receiver with various devices (BD/UBD, Media box, etc) and then go to a keystone wall plate which connects in the wall to one of these fibre optic cables to the ceiling wall/keystone plate which would then have another cable to the projector?
> 
> Monoprice seems to indicate not to do this but I wanted to see what experience people have with a keystone setup. I understand the voltage may drop if going through keystones but I'm only talking a short distance of 3-6' on either end of the keystone - enough to connect to the devices.
> 
> My local dealer sells an Optical HDMI cable (Active Fiber Optic AOC High Speed HDMI Cable – Ultra HD 4k x 2k HDMI Cable – 15m (50 ft)) for $450CDN which is significantly more than the Monoprice cables either from them directly or from primecables.com a Canadian distributor (I could probably by 2 sets for 2 4K feeds). Anyway he claims that they have no problem with running the cables with wall plates - do it all the time.
> 
> Do I need to have other joiner cables in the wall to make the turn to a wall plate keystone if I am able to do this sort of setup or is there enough bend in these fibre optic cables? I put 2 Monoprice 6061 (8inch 28AWG High Speed HDMI® With Ethernet Male to Female Port Saver - Black) on the ends of the 3571 in the wall/box for the projector cable but perhaps this isn't necessary for the fibre cables.
> 
> I'd like to avoid having cables dangling out of the wall or ceiling to hook up to the AV Receiver and projector.
> 
> 
> My current AV receiver (Denon AVR4310ci) is HDMI1.3 I believe so I would have to upgrade to a HDMI 2.1 receiver in a few years when 4K takes off. I currently have an Oppo-BDP103 and kodi box connected to it but I have the video hdmi for the Oppo connected to my Samsung KS8000 directly to upscale the Blurays which look amazing. I could upgrade to a Oppo BDP-203 and do the same thing to get 4K video and have the sound go to my receiver which supports Dolby TruHD/DTS Master Audio (just no HDMI 1.4/2.x or Dolby Atmos) so it still works for me. My receiver supports 2 video outputs but unfortunately not 4K so I'll have to look for another that can do this (TV or Projector) (any current recommendations?)
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I see a lot of mention of running conduits to pull cables through - what do you recommend to use for this? How big of a diameter and lengths available? Not sure if something like this one at Lowes would work at 3/4" diameter to pull a future HDMI cable and/or cat6 cables through - that is duck taping a couple of these 10 foot lengths together??? I'm not sure if it comes in 1" diameters I guess I could put 2 new fibre optic cables in these along with another spare run. Any other recommendations?
> 
> Do you run them through the floor joists in the basement and how big of a hole do/can you make in the joists to run these? I've been googling and it seems to indicate you can make holes that are no bigger than 1/3 of the size of the joist (e.g. 2x10 would be 10/3 or a whopping 3.33 inches - don't think I would go that big) and it can't be within 2" of the top of bottom of the joist. Not sure if these specs are everywhere. If you have I joists you can go up to 4" holes provided it is not on the ends, etc
> 
> I don't really want to run inside a bulkhead as I'm trying to minimize the size of the bulkheads so that I'll be able to squeeze a 100" motorized electric drop screen in a joist space behind a heating duct where the screen can drop 2 feet so the duct won't cover the screen.
> 
> 
> So what cables do you recommend I prewire with before I insulate the ceiling (safe and sound) and drywall it? I'll have to put an electrical outlet inside the ceiling for the drop screen to plug into inside the ceiling, and an exposed outlet on the ceiling for the projector with the 3 HDMI ports on the ceiling (existing HDMI and 2 fibre optic HDMI ports). I also ran some mono cables in the ceiling which i understand I can use a a trigger for the projector and screen. I need to prewire the ceiling with some space for some Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers too I guess.


Wall plates are likely to be very problematic at the moment, given what you can see is already a pretty fragile situation!

It _might_ work, but it's far from guaranteed. I'd go so far as to say you would be lucky.


----------



## STAIN0

ruipro said:


> Hi Ben,
> 
> I confirmed that the cable was shipped 3 days ago and we had sent you an email.
> The TNT tracking number is GD318090659WW.
> Please double check, thank you.
> 
> Thomas


thanks for the tracking number ruipro,
i never received the email, only a paypal transaction confirmation.
but thats all good, i can see it's on it's way


----------



## ARROW-AV

ruipro said:


> Dear Scarabaeus, Thank you for your report! Yes, you are right the ARC is transmitted by copper. From the description you mentioned, it is right that the ARC issue is caused by the unshielded wire for transmitting ARC/CEC. Only the SDA/SCL wires are shielded currently. The ARC maybe interfered by the low frequency signal outside sometimes. We are developing to solve this issue. Thank you very much, Thomas [email protected]





scarabaeus said:


> Thank you! I am always welcoming product improvements, and I am glad to see that you guys are caring enough to improve your already top of the market product.





ruipro said:


> Hello everyone, I am very glad to access this tread and very happy to meet all of you. Appreciate everyone here that you choose our cable and hope it can solve the HDMI2.0b long distance connection issue. Appreciate ARROW AV much about the testing report and the effort! I am the director of Ruipro brand. Can I leave my email here to service you? Thank you very much!


Hi Thomas! Sorry for the delay in replying. We have been very, very busy (even more so than usual!). It is nice to meet you and we’d like to congratulate you with respect to RUIPRO being only one of two HDMI cables out of the total of 35 tested that passed all of the tests with respect to properly and fully supporting 18Gbps video bandwidth and HDMI version 2.0b

Please note that a primary reason why we did not award you with joint first place, but second place / runner up, is due to the fact that currently your RUIPRO cables for sale via AMAZON.COM are not shipping Internationally outside of the United States, including to Australasia, Europe, and the UK. You can very easily do this by simply making use of the *AmazonGlobal* facility offered by AMAZON.COM – *SEE: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201074230. *

If this is something that you are able to change / alter then also taking into consideration the excellent customer and after sales support that you are providing by posting here we will publish a revised ranking accordingly and let everyone know that your cables are now available for shipping internationally via AMAZON.COM. Alternatively and/or additionally you could list your products on the respective country versions of AMAZON, including both: *AMAZON AUSTRALIA* and *AMAZON UK* where you will be able to specify and include whatever shipping options of your choosing, further to those provided via *AmazonGlobal*.

It is great to see that you are taking orders manually via email with payment via PAYPAL, however I hope you understand that many people, for a variety of reasons, would prefer to order through Amazon, if possible. 

Thanks again for your posting on here and contributing to this thread. And congratulations on providing an excellent product in your RUIPRO HDMI Cables. 
.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bolmsted - what is recommended for conduit size is 1.5" - 2.0". That is plenty wide to run multiple cable types, extra cables for future use, and a pull string. I used punchdown keystone jacks with solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) to extend my ethernet connection so that my HTS can be hardwired. If you're going to push video it's always best to keep your connection to a single cable, source to sink, without any extenders (if possible) or joiners. The higher video standards (HDR) can be very touchy so you want to keep your connections as simple as possible. For in-wall/in-conduit the cabling should be CL2/CL3 rated for fire safety and inspection purposes if you are going to be inspected. Premium High Speed HDMI Cables are the registered name of HDMI cables that have been certified by the HDMI.org's ATC certification program (which is standardized) and will come with a QR label of authenticity. There are other certification programs available but they are not standardized and are usually "in-house" certification which can mean just about anything. However, ATC certified cables are not 100% guaranteed to meet your needs because there is more to a successful connection than just a certified cable. Nobody guarantees that a specific cable of a given length will always push 18Gbps ( the current acceptable certification length is still 25' for HDMI 1.4/2.0, non-HDR). They usually state "certified up to 18Gbps). For long runs, the front runners for HDR seem to be the optical cables from either Celerity or Ruipo. Whatever you decide to run, I'd lay them out on the floor and thoroughly test them to make sure they meet your expectations before installing. Using conduit will make swapping/changing out the cables so much easier if need be but you really don't want to do that if you can avoid it.


----------



## bolmsted

Otto Pylot said:


> Bolmsted - what is recommended for conduit size is 1.5" - 2.0". That is plenty wide to run multiple cable types, extra cables for future use, and a pull string. I used punchdown keystone jacks with solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) to extend my ethernet connection so that my HTS can be hardwired. If you're going to push video it's always best to keep your connection to a single cable, source to sink, without any extenders (if possible) or joiners. The higher video standards (HDR) can be very touchy so you want to keep your connections as simple as possible. For in-wall/in-conduit the cabling should be CL2/CL3 rated for fire safety and inspection purposes if you are going to be inspected. Premium High Speed HDMI Cables are the registered name of HDMI cables that have been certified by the HDMI.org's ATC certification program (which is standardized) and will come with a QR label of authenticity. There are other certification programs available but they are not standardized and are usually "in-house" certification which can mean just about anything. However, ATC certified cables are not 100% guaranteed to meet your needs because there is more to a successful connection than just a certified cable. Nobody guarantees that a specific cable of a given length will always push 18Gbps ( the current acceptable certification length is still 25' for HDMI 1.4/2.0, non-HDR). They usually state "certified up to 18Gbps). For long runs, the front runners for HDR seem to be the optical cables from either Celerity or Ruipo. Whatever you decide to run, I'd lay them out on the floor and thoroughly test them to make sure they meet your expectations before installing. Using conduit will make swapping/changing out the cables so much easier if need be but you really don't want to do that if you can avoid it.



thanks for the detailed reply. Is it ok to put a 1.5"-2.0" hole through floor joists to put a conduit in it or are you thinking inside a bulkhead (which will be premium real estate for me to be able to put a drop screen later)? Googling seems to indicate I can make a hole 1/3 the size of the floor joist (e.g 2x10 @ 1/3 = 3.25" (crazy big)) My floor joist is real 2" timber from the old days, but our addition on the house is engineered I-joists where you can apparently make a crazy 4" hole in the middle but the TV area is in the old.

What would you recommend to use as a 1.5"-2" conduit material? something from Lowes or Home Depot? I would need something flexible that I could feed through joist holes similar to how PEX plumbing is fed through coiled up. I know we have 3/4" plumbing going through the joist on one side and this hole you are talking about would be 2x the diameter.

What is an HTS? So you are saying solid core cat6 is not ethernet cabling that you find for doing networking then? I don't need a 1000ft of it though if I was going to buy some. I guess I'll end up buying either Monoprice or Ruipro cables and feeding through a conduit that leads up to one of these on either end to make it clean looking and spool up the extra behind the A/V receiver as 50ft will be longer than I need I suspect but 30ft would be too short.

Can the solid core cat6 be used as cat6 networking if you want as I need to likely run one or 2 more feeds to allow my future projector to be wired and again didnt' want to buy another box of cat6 just for a few minor connections. Would cat6 cable like this  or this  be what you are talking about in your application as it is solid?

Are you talking about using cat6 to do HDBaseT then? I didn't think that HDBaseT could deal with 4K and 4KHDR and only 1080p with the transceivers that are available at least from what I've seen on monoprice.com but I guess you could then use HDMI patch cables on either end of these HDBASET connections for a clean look but then I guess you are getting into way more money than running 2 Fibre Optic HDMI cables from RUIPRO or Monoprice and letting them hang out through the wall.


yeah I just want future flexibility but I would hope to not have to swap the cables out later or perhaps give up at some point with trying to keep up with technology. I think 4K will be the pinnacle of my viewing habbits as 8K if it ever comes would be indistinguishable from 4K at most peoples comfortable viewing distance (aka retina display on iPads - you can't perceive the pixels after so much pixel density)


----------



## kwindrem

I would not count on any existing cables to be usable in the future. HDMI 2.1 will require a "new cable". Your best bet if you must run through walls, ceilings and floors is conduit. Give yourself plenty of room and keep bends fairly gradual to allow pulling large active HDMI connectors. I would think 3/4" might be too small.

The type of conduit you referenced is typical for this application but the inner surface is not smooth and could snag connectors with sharp corners. Using larger conduit than otherwise needed can help.

I would NOT tape multiple runs together. Adhesive from the tape will make it extremely difficult to pull out the bundle or pull additional cable next to it in the future.

Run a pull string for future runs and when pulling new cable, include a replacement pull string.

I suspect you may have issues with extension HDMI cables and/or wall plates necessary to extend the active cables. Remember that cables are certified or at least designed to plug directly into equipment. Every connection and separate connector will degrade the signal and we are already on the edge of it working at all. Worst case: joining two cables that just meet certification when used by them selves would probably not work.

I'd ask the manufacturer (Monoprice or RUIPRO) how their cable is expected to behave when extended. Try to talk to technical people not sales.

Extending cables and running through wall plates might be something for round 2 of the cable evaluations.

You can certainly use an AV receiver as a selector to feed the display. However, you will need to keep updating it as HDMI capabilities increase. The only alternative to constant upgrades is an outboard selector and separate video and audio paths.


----------



## ruipro

ARROW-AV said:


> Hi Thomas! Sorry for the delay in replying. We have been very, very busy (even more so than usual!). It is nice to meet you and we’d like to congratulate you with respect to RUIPRO being only one of two HDMI cables out of the total of 35 tested that passed all of the tests with respect to properly and fully supporting 18Gbps video bandwidth and HDMI version 2.0b
> 
> Please note that a primary reason why we did not award you with joint first place, but second place / runner up, is due to the fact that currently your RUIPRO cables for sale via AMAZON.COM are not shipping Internationally outside of the United States, including to Australasia, Europe, and the UK. You can very easily do this by simply making use of the *AmazonGlobal* facility offered by AMAZON.COM – *SEE: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201074230. *
> 
> If this is something that you are able to change / alter then also taking into consideration the excellent customer and after sales support that you are providing by posting here we will publish a revised ranking accordingly and let everyone know that your cables are now available for shipping internationally via AMAZON.COM. Alternatively and/or additionally you could list your products on the respective country versions of AMAZON, including both: *AMAZON AUSTRALIA* and *AMAZON UK* where you will be able to specify and include whatever shipping options of your choosing, further to those provided via *AmazonGlobal*.
> 
> It is great to see that you are taking orders manually via email with payment via PAYPAL, however I hope you understand that many people, for a variety of reasons, would prefer to order through Amazon, if possible.
> 
> Thanks again for your posting on here and contributing to this thread. And congratulations on providing an excellent product in your RUIPRO HDMI Cables.
> .


Hi ARROW,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply including the methods to enlarge the business and service the end users. We do appreciate much for your great advice and help from your experience. And we are developing the cooperation business such as developing dealer around of the world.

Currently we have had good cooperator as our dealers in some EU country.
But it is not enough. Everyone in his country want to be our dealer, please kindly contact me.
Also we will proceed the Global Business by AMZ according to your suggestion.
And we are trying to solve some small issues for this cable which currently exsit.
To satisfy every customers and keep on going with the latest tech in our cable is our mission.
Once HDMI2.1 standard comes out, our HDMI2.1 cable will come out immediatly.
Actually we are developing HDMI Fiber Cable for 50G bandwidth. 

Many thanks again Mr. ARROW!

Thomas
[email protected]


----------



## Otto Pylot

Somebody else will have to answer your building questions because that is more than what I had to do. My conduit was a simple install with the cabling open to the attic area and just conduit down the inside walls. The conduit that I used was installed by an electrician and I believe it was flexible fed into a utility box so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

HTS is Home Theater System. My solid core CAT-6 is connected to a punchdown keystone jack wall plate. From there, I ran CAT-6 ethernet patch cable to an 8-port gigabit switch which was then wired to my HTS devices so everything was connected via ethernet back to my router. CAT-6 or 6a cable is usually sold in 25' or greater spools. The solid copper wires are individually insulated, usually 24AWG, twisted, and enclosed in a flexible covering. Quite often the cable does not come terminated so you either need to terminate with a keystone jack for an extended ethernet connection or some sort of active termination like HDBT for an HDMI-like connection.

HDBT is still dicey for HDR because of the current set of HDMI chipsets installed (the same is true for a lot of active HDMI cables as well) but they are coming out with newer chipsets that will be able to handle HDR requirements. It's still not clear though on how one can determine which version of chipsets are being used in the HDBT receiver/transceivers or active high speed HDMI cables.

The ONLY way to future-proof any connection is to use conduit. The reason being is that sooner or later, as video standards increase (i.e. HDMI 2.1) the current crop of cables, be it copper or fiber, may not be up to the task so you will be upgrading your cables. With a conduit you can run a couple of solid core CAT-6, fiber, RG-6, and a pull string for future pulls. It's also a good idea if you can install your termination points close to an electrical outlet in case you need to run power to the cable run. The beauty of solid core CAT-6-6a-7 and/or fiber is that the cable itself can handle the bandwidth, it's the termination points that have issues. But they are external to the actual cable so upgrading the termination, as it becomes available, is easy because the cable itself stays intact. Actively terminated fiber is the same thing.

And speaking of HDMI 2.1, the cable requirements are going to require a special 48Gbps cable and the last I read is that the distance may be limited to under 10', so we'll just have to wait and see what actually is required next year once fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipset are available and installed in new devices.


----------



## ARROW-AV

ruipro said:


> Hi ARROW,
> 
> Thank you very much for your detailed reply including the methods to enlarge the business and service the end users. We do appreciate much for your great advice and help from your experience. And we are developing the cooperation business such as developing dealer around of the world.
> 
> Currently we have had good cooperator as our dealers in some EU country. But it is not enough. Everyone in his country want to be our dealer, please kindly contact me. Also we will proceed the Global Business by AMZ according to your suggestion.
> 
> And we are trying to solve some small issues for this cable which currently exsit.


Hi Thomas, 

Your customer service and sales support is as excellent as your cables! 

We just learned today that you have already established a supply chain to/from the United Kingdom via a local distribution company there. It is absolutely fantastic that you are acting upon the feedback provided regarding both the supply / distribution of your cables internationally, and also the minor techical issues for this cable, such as ARC support. Where suffice to say as soon as we have confirmation that these have happened we will review our rating/ranking and upgrade our rating for the RUIPRO cables to joint first place. 



ruipro said:


> To satisfy every customers and keep on going with the latest tech in our cable is our mission.
> Once HDMI2.1 standard comes out, our HDMI2.1 cable will come out immediatly.
> Actually *we are developing HDMI Fiber Cable for 50G bandwidth.*


Brilliant news! When you have this cable ready and would like some third party independent testing (and endorsement if your cable similarly passes our tests) we will be very happy to test your 50Gbps bandwidth cable for you! 
.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Somebody else will have to answer your building questions because that is more than what I had to do...


I've got this... I happen to also manage a property company 



bolmsted said:


> Is it ok to put a 1.5"-2.0" hole through floor joists to put a conduit in it...?


YES  



bolmsted said:


> What would you recommend to use as a 1.5"-2" conduit material? something from Lowes or Home Depot? I would need something flexible that I could feed through joist holes similar to how PEX plumbing is fed through coiled up. I know we have 3/4" plumbing going through the joist on one side and this hole you are talking about would be 2x the diameter.


You can use any standard 2" diameter PVC or Vinyl drainage pipe, such as this one which is available from Home Depot and Lowes: Advanced Drainage Systems 2 in. x 100 ft. IPS 80 PSI UTY Poly Pipe



bolmsted said:


> I just want future flexibility but I would hope to not have to swap the cables out later...


Whenever HDMI 2.1 is launched and you wish to support this you will have no choice but to replace your HDMI cables for those which properly support HDMI 2.1 and hence 48Gbps... and you should listen to what these fine gentlemen ^^^^ have been saying regards conduits and pull-strings.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Thanks ARROW-AV for answering the construction question. Good to know.


----------



## amro

Great thread. This is helping me get my Sony UBP-X800 and Sony 65AE1 working better together. I don't see where Report #2 is out, or did I miss the link.


----------



## ruipro

ARROW-AV said:


> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Your customer service and sales support is as excellent as your cables!
> 
> We just learned today that you have already established a supply chain to/from the United Kingdom via a local distribution company there. It is absolutely fantastic that you are acting upon the feedback provided regarding both the supply / distribution of your cables internationally, and also the minor techical issues for this cable, such as ARC support. Where suffice to say as soon as we have confirmation that these have happened we will review our rating/ranking and upgrade our rating for the RUIPRO cables to joint first place.
> 
> Brilliant news! When you have this cable ready and would like some third party independent testing (and endorsement if your cable similarly passes our tests) we will be very happy to test your 50Gbps bandwidth cable for you!
> .


Hi ARROW,

Many thanks for your support, and we will fight to provide better and better quality product and customer service  We have established the distribution in Italy/Spain/UK. Hope we can develop this business soon. As end user need much more convinent local service instead of an oversea deal

Also if someone want to work for the cable distribution in your local country, please contact me freely and we are at of service and pleased to work with you

The new designed cable which added shielding for 14/17 copper wire will come out soon for ARC 192Khz issue
Thank you very much :

Thomas


----------



## ruipro

Brilliant news! When you have this cable ready and would like some third party independent testing (and endorsement if your cable similarly passes our tests) we will be very happy to test your 50Gbps bandwidth cable for you! 
.[/QUOTE]

Once HDMI2.1 spec come out (on about the next half year), we will release 50G bandwidth cable immediatly and we are also very happy to provide cables to you for testing Thank you ARROW again for your support 

Thomas,


----------



## bolmsted

ruipro said:


> Once HDMI2.1 spec come out (on about the next half year), we will release 50G bandwidth cable immediatly and we are also very happy to provide cables to you for testing Thank you ARROW again for your support
> 
> Thomas,


do you know specifically when the HDMI 2.1 cables are likely to come out the next year? towards the end of next year or beginning as I'm not sure how to interpret your statement "about the next half year". Perhaps I should wait for an HDMI2.1 cable to come from ruipro as I'm not at the stage of putting the projector in quite yet so I would rather get the better cable right from the start.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The cable should not be called "HDMI 2.1" and I doubt if it will be if it's from a reputable mfr. A better name would be "48Gbps HDMI Cable". There will be LOTS of cable mfrs with dubious descriptions of their cables, much like the way it is now for 18Gpbs. Connection technology is ALWAYS going to be behind video technology (4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is a case in point) so the cable mfrs need to see how the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets work in the new devices, and at what lengths, before pushing their "HDMI 2.1" or 48Gbps cables. Hopefully the initial 3m maximum length for the 48Gbps cable length will be worked out to something more reasonable. My guess is that the cables will be expensive regardless.


----------



## ruipro

bolmsted said:


> do you know specifically when the HDMI 2.1 cables are likely to come out the next year? towards the end of next year or beginning as I'm not sure how to interpret your statement "about the next half year". Perhaps I should wait for an HDMI2.1 cable to come from ruipro as I'm not at the stage of putting the projector in quite yet so I would rather get the better cable right from the start.


Thank you bolmsted.
HDMI org pubulished the main feartures of HDMI2.1 at the begnining of 2017, and the final specification would come out within the 2nd season according to their notification.
But we would like to think that it would be some delayed. So I wrote "the next half year".
Until now as a mfr, what we can estimate is that the main question for us to solve is the BANDWIDTH: 48Gbps.

Surelly we have got these chips for HDMI Active Optical Cable(48Gbps). While for 48G it is not a big problem for optical wire transmission.
So, the rest thing is the HDMI2.1 specification/Compliance testing for electronics. I think we would solve most problem for the new 48G cables.

Usually even the specification come out, the following video/device/ports/test device also need much time to come out.
So in the coming half or 1 year, most 48G cables are just for testing. Also it would very expensive.

Thank you
Thomas


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable should not be called "HDMI 2.1" and I doubt if it will be if it's from a reputable mfr. A better name would be "48Gbps HDMI Cable". There will be LOTS of cable mfrs with dubious descriptions of their cables, much like the way it is now for 18Gpbs. Connection technology is ALWAYS going to be behind video technology (4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is a case in point) so the cable mfrs need to see how the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets work in the new devices, and at what lengths, before pushing their "HDMI 2.1" or 48Gbps cables. Hopefully the initial 3m maximum length for the 48Gbps cable length will be worked out to something more reasonable. My guess is that the cables will be expensive regardless.


Hello Otto,

Thank you for your correction. You are right that it should be called "48Gbps HDMI Cable" officially. 
But most MFRs in CN do call it "HDMI2.1 cable". It is just our habit ：）
Not each end user understand the meanings of 48Gbps fully as good as you.
Also I think "HDMI2.1 Cable" is more simpler for communication.
EVEN HDMI ORG just call it as "48G cables" not "48Gbps HDMI Cable"
We call it "HDMI2.1 cable", we need to ensure the cable meet HDMI2.1 specification. Not only 48Gbps.
*So I think calling "HDMI2.1 cable" does not mean that the MFR is not a reputable MFR. *

Yes you are also right about the dubious descriptions "18Gbps". 
HDMI2.0b need 17.82Gbps. But some cables with a different solution just meet 17.5Gbps, even they descrip it 18Gbps.
But when you test these cable, it can not pass.Such as some cables tested by Mr. ARROW. Also see the attached picture we tested before.

As a commercial strategy, most MFR are investigating HDMI2.1 in advance and will announce that they make out 48Gbps cable once the final specification comes out.
Compliant testing and improvement is a continuous process. Especilly for HDMI AOC. AOC is not a simple copper cable connection.
Also because HDMI ORG still do not define the sepcification/test standard for AOC until now.


I am in charge of sales in our company, not RD.
The above explaination is just my viewpoint. 
If something wrong, welcome to correct it

Thank you
Thomas


----------



## Otto Pylot

Given the confusion and downright deception by some mfrs in the cabling industry, I think your cable description should be something like "48Gbps High Speed HDMI Cable which meets HDMI 2.1 specifications". Unless HDMI.org changes their recommendations about cable labeling, which currently does not include the HDMI hardware specification number, it might be worth your consideration to separate the hardware specification from the cable type. I'm sure there will be some fully compliant 48Gbps cables eventually. What I will be interested in is the certifiable length, if they can be certified, and what kind of CofA they will come with. Sales (marketing) can sometimes be far removed from R&D


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Given the confusion and downright deception by some mfrs in the cabling industry, I think your cable description should be something like "48Gbps High Speed HDMI Cable which meets HDMI 2.1 specifications". Unless HDMI.org changes their recommendations about cable labeling, which currently does not include the HDMI hardware specification number, it might be worth your consideration to separate the hardware specification from the cable type. I'm sure there will be some fully compliant 48Gbps cables eventually. What I will be interested in is the certifiable length, if they can be certified, and what kind of CofA they will come with. Sales (marketing) can sometimes be far removed from R&D


Spot on Otto. Although the term 'High Speed' has been so abused is it has become meaningless, so perhaps: 

*"48 Gbps High Video Bandwidth HDMI Cable | Meets HDMI 2.1 specifications"* 

Or simpler:

*"48 Gbps High Video Bandwidth HDMI 2.1 Cable"*


----------



## markrubin

^^^
I think there will be a significant learning curve for early HDMI 2.1 adopters: keep in mind the mess created with the current latest HDMI specs

that is why a thread like this is so valuable: here we have independent testing of manufacturers claims: something HDMI.org should be doing much more of...


----------



## jong1

To be a little contrary, I think 2.1 may be a lot clearer than 2.0. It is such a massive step up that there will be none of this "any High Speed cable will do" nonsense. Everyone will know they need new cables and over any but the shortest distance they will almost certainly be fiber with integrated adapters as with the winningRuipro and Monoprice.

What made 2.0 such a mess was the stupid claim that all existing High Speed cables should work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I like the "meets the HDMI 2.1 specifications" labeling but still have issues with using HDMI 2.1 as any part of the cable name without clarification. 

The idea of having ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) distributed throughout the world was so that cable mfrs, once they paid the fee, could test and certify their cables following a standardized set of testing protocols as designated by HDMI.org. That seemed to work well when HDMI 2.0 was first introduced but as device mfrs started to implement more and more of the 2.0 protocol set, that became problematic.

Technically, when HDMI 2.0 was first introduced, the existing high speed HDMI cables were backwards compatible. Once HDMI 2.0a/b was introduced into devices, those specs became a little more difficult to achieve due to distance so the "25' rule" didn't apply anymore in all cases. Not to be "Debbie Downer" but I still say HDMI 2.1 is going to be an expensive mess, especially for those folks who have long runs and didn't install conduit.


----------



## scarabaeus

ruipro said:


> Once HDMI2.1 spec come out (on about the next half year), we will release 50G bandwidth cable immediatly and we are also very happy to provide cables to you for testing Thank you ARROW again for your support


That is great news! When you develop that cable, please consider the HDMI 2.1 eARC feature, which will require cables following the "with Ethernet" specification, with special shielding of the HEAC+ / HEAC- wire pair. (Unlike the current ARC, which only uses HEAC+)

Thank you!


----------



## ARROW-AV

One things for sure... My involuntary nervous twitching that would occur whenever anyone mentions _"HDMI 2.1"_ or _"48 Gbps"_ has lessened somewhat since hearing the fantastic news that RUIPRO are developing a cable that will support both of these, especially given they are the manufactuer of one of the only two cables that properly and reliably support 18 Gbps at these longer length cables! 
.


----------



## Horta

Arrow

Just wondering how your report is coming along for the 25 foot cables. Im currently in the process of buying some. I have already bought two cables that are sold 4k capable (one being the monoprice) and they are not. Its a real pain, so a report like your would be soooo appreciated.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ 4k (3840/4096 x 2160) or 4k UHD? 4k seems to be the catch-all phrase for 4k with UHD but they are two different things so confusion abounds.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically, when HDMI 2.0 was first introduced, the existing high speed HDMI cables were backwards compatible. Once HDMI 2.0a/b was introduced into devices, those specs became a little more difficult to achieve due to distance so the "25' rule" didn't apply anymore in all cases. Not to be "Debbie Downer" but I still say HDMI 2.1 is going to be an expensive mess, especially for those folks who have long runs and didn't install conduit.


I don't understand this. The datarates are the same from 2.0 -> .a -> .b. Pretty much all that changed was metadata and that hasn't been the problem. 4K/60 4:4:4 8-bit has been a nightmare and that was in 2.0 and doesn't have HDR. ??

When it comes to 2.1, yes guys are going to need to replace cables but at least they will know that and not be led up the garden path by supposed compatible "High Speed" or "Premium" but not "Premium Certified" cables. And optical should easily be capable, once chipsets are developed to do the job. And this time it will be clear from the start that they are needed!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> And this time it will be clear from the start that they are needed!


I wouldn't expect anything to be clear once fully compliant HDMI 2.1 is included in new devices. I certainly hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Ash Sharma

I could use a 20 foot HDMI cable which will work fine for me...BUT could use 33 foot just to keep slack in the cable..
Does if make a difference in the recommended cables if the length is 20 or 33 feet? or is shorter the better?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ it depends on what you are going to push down the cable. 1080p or 4k (not with UHD) should work at either length but there are no guarantees. Just try and return if the cable doesn't work as expected.


----------



## Zaa

I purchased the 10m RUIPRO Fiber cable from Amazon and it does not seem to work. I connected it from a GTX 1080Ti to a Samsung KS8000 and when I enabled HDMI UHD Color the screen went blank/searching for source. Source and Display ends are correct.
I tried the same using a 6ft Amazon basics cable and it worked fine. 

Any idea what the issue could be?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Send it back and try another cable. There are no 100% guarantees that a cable will work with your given setup.


----------



## ruipro

scarabaeus said:


> That is great news! When you develop that cable, please consider the HDMI 2.1 eARC feature, which will require cables following the "with Ethernet" specification, with special shielding of the HEAC+ / HEAC- wire pair. (Unlike the current ARC, which only uses HEAC+)
> 
> Thank you!


Yes scarabaeus, eARC is a feature of HDMI2.1. 
Our RD must do it. While it is a brand new feature which would need a designed wire/cable.


----------



## ruipro

Zaa said:


> I purchased the 10m RUIPRO Fiber cable from Amazon and it does not seem to work. I connected it from a GTX 1080Ti to a Samsung KS8000 and when I enabled HDMI UHD Color the screen went blank/searching for source. Source and Display ends are correct.
> I tried the same using a 6ft Amazon basics cable and it worked fine.
> 
> Any idea what the issue could be?


Hi Zaa,

I got your issue feedback from our CS team today.
Say sorry for this issue.
We tried to verify this issue on our side.
We tested the cable with GTX Graphics and LG Display(not a TV), it can work well for 4K60Hz 4:4:4.
But we could not choose 4k60Hz 4:4:4 when the cable is connected with the GTX Graphics and Sony/Samsung TV. 
A copper HDMI cable also did not work with 4K60Hz 4:4:4.
(About the device model, I need to confirm with the engineer tommorow) 
It is a strange thing.
The engineer are preparing the report. And will advise you the further results later. 
Our engineer will test again with the Voltage inserter on the Source end.
Thank you,

Sales Director
Thomas


----------



## Zaa

Thank you, please keep me updated with the voltage inserter results.



ruipro said:


> Hi Zaa,
> 
> I got your issue feedback from our CS team today.
> Say sorry for this issue.
> We tried to verify this issue on our side.
> We tested the cable with GTX Graphics and LG Display(not a TV), it can work well for 4K60Hz 4:4:4.
> But we could not choose 4k60Hz 4:4:4 when the cable is connected with the GTX Graphics and Sony/Samsung TV.
> A copper HDMI cable also did not work with 4K60Hz 4:4:4.
> (About the device model, I need to confirm with the engineer tommorow)
> It is a strange thing.
> The engineer are preparing the report. And will advise you the further results later.
> Our engineer will test again with the Voltage inserter on the Source end.
> Thank you,
> 
> Sales Director
> Thomas


----------



## amro

Well, the MonoPrice cable did the trick. I had a Sony UBP-X800 connected through a Yamaha RX-A3060 to a new XBR-65A1E. The XBR would occasionally go blank for 1-2 seconds. Got the MonoPrice cable and connected the X800 directly to the TV with not one dropout throughout an entire 4K movie or Netflix 4K streaming. So now, I will use the Yamaha to switch SD content and route HD content directly to the TV. Luckily the X800 has two HDMI outputs so that the audio still goes to the Yamaha. Really appreciate this thread and look forward to more cable reviews.


----------



## Operon

markrubin said:


> ^^^
> I think there will be a significant learning curve for early HDMI 2.1 adopters: keep in mind the mess created with the current latest HDMI specs
> 
> that is why a thread like this is so valuable: here we have independent testing of manufacturers claims: something HDMI.org should be doing much more of...


With all due respect the learning curve should fall squarely on the shoulders of the interface and cable manufactures and _not _the early adopters. On the other hand we are talking about HDMI; I fear the _mess_, as you describe it, with a HDMI 2.1 roll-out will be measured by factors of ten compared to HDMI 2.0x.



scarabaeus said:


> That is great news! When you develop that cable, please consider the HDMI 2.1 eARC feature, which will require cables following the "with Ethernet" specification, with special shielding of the HEAC+ / HEAC- wire pair. (Unlike the current ARC, which only uses HEAC+)
> 
> Thank you!


What? A robust capacity finally for, what's this iteration, 3? Perhaps 3 times the charm. And what's the Ethernet bandwidth rating for HDMI 2.1? Now that GB Ethernet has been pedestrian for about a decade?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I agree that the learning curve should fall on the interface/cable mfrs but that's just not going to happen. TV and cable mfrs know that the consumer early adopters are a gold mine just waiting to be exploited so they will continue to push the latest video technology with slick advertising and promises, knowing full well that connection technology will always lag behind. HDMI 2.1 will follow the same course that HDMI 2.0a/b followed. Almost fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the early tv's ("HDMI 2.1 compatible" or whatever), as well as new terminology just to confuse the consumer. And for those of you whose panels are greater than 10' away from their sources, very expensive cables are in your future.


----------



## conan481

anyone know if the monoprice 75 foot slimrun cable works?


----------



## ruipro

Zaa said:


> Thank you, please keep me updated with the voltage inserter results.


Hi Zaa,

The reason seems as the below test
RD advised that the voltage inserter seems to do nothing with the issue.
Thank you,

Thomas


----------



## Zaa

ruipro said:


> Hi Zaa,
> 
> The reason seems as the below test
> RD advised that the voltage inserter seems to do nothing with the issue.
> Thank you,
> 
> Thomas


Hi Thomas,

Thank you for the feedback. 

This is very strange because I have it connected to my TV with an Amazon basics 6ft cable at present and it is doing [email protected] without issue. I also noticed that, with the ruipro, the screen turns black for a couple of seconds randomly when using [email protected]


----------



## ruipro

Zaa said:


> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Thank you for the feedback.
> 
> This is very strange because I have it connected to my TV with an Amazon basics 6ft cable at present and it is doing [email protected] without issue. I also noticed that, with the ruipro, the screen turns black for a couple of seconds randomly when using [email protected]


Hi Zaa,

Maybe it is just an individual isue.
Please advise Manday your address via AMZ.
I will arrange to send you a new one.
Once the new one can work well, please send the defective one to our RMA center.
I will advise Mandy to contact you later.
Thank you,


----------



## guitarguy316

the amazon basis aren't "certified" but has anyone ever had problems with them doing 4k hdr, etc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

conan481 said:


> anyone know if the monoprice 75 foot slimrun cable works?


For 1080p, probably not a problem. For 4k HDR it's very doubtful.


----------



## Otto Pylot

guitarguy316 said:


> the amazon basis aren't "certified" but has anyone ever had problems with them doing 4k hdr, etc.


At what distance? Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try.


----------



## vince.janik

@ Thomas from Ruipro, how can I get a hold on your cable? Im based in the Netherlands. Thanks. Vince 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


----------



## ruipro

vince.janik said:


> @ Thomas from Ruipro, how can I get a hold on your cable? Im based in the Netherlands. Thanks. Vince
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


Hello Vince,

Sorry that we have not establish a distribution in Netherlands.
You may contact us via email [email protected] for a oversea order currently.

Thank you
Thomas


----------



## blkz06

bolmsted said:


> Just reading through this thread and considering prewiring my basement with some of these fibre optic HDMI cables and some conduits while the basement is open.
> 
> I already wired a 3571 Monoprice Commercial Silver Series Standard HDMI? Cable, 35ft Black cable in the floor joists when I was pulling speaker wires, cat6, rg6 through the houses
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I see a lot of mention of running conduits to pull cables through - what do you recommend to use for this? How big of a diameter and lengths available? Not sure if something like this one at Lowes would work at 3/4" diameter to pull a future HDMI cable and/or cat6 cables through - that is duck taping a couple of these 10 foot lengths together??? I'm not sure if it comes in 1" diameters I guess I could put 2 new fibre optic cables in these along with another spare run. Any other recommendations?
> 
> Do you run them through the floor joists in the basement and how big of a hole do/can you make in the joists to run these? I've been googling and it seems to indicate you can make holes that are no bigger than 1/3 of the size of the joist (e.g. 2x10 would be 10/3 or a whopping 3.33 inches - don't think I would go that big) and it can't be within 2" of the top of bottom of the joist. Not sure if these specs are everywhere. If you have I joists you can go up to 4" holes provided it is not on the ends, etc
> 
> I don't really want to run inside a bulkhead as I'm trying to minimize the size of the bulkheads so that I'll be able to squeeze a 100" motorized electric drop screen in a joist space behind a heating duct where the screen can drop 2 feet so the duct won't cover the screen.
> 
> 
> So what cables do you recommend I prewire with before I insulate the ceiling (safe and sound) and drywall it? I'll have to put an electrical outlet inside the ceiling for the drop screen to plug into inside the ceiling, and an exposed outlet on the ceiling for the projector with the 3 HDMI ports on the ceiling (existing HDMI and 2 fibre optic HDMI ports). I also ran some mono cables in the ceiling which i understand I can use a a trigger for the projector and screen. I need to prewire the ceiling with some space for some Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers too I guess.






I would recommend getting a licensed builder to look at your situation, or anyone contemplating drilling holes in their floor joists. 

I'm a licensed builder, and while you are correct about the 1/3 depth of member rule, you have to use the MEASURED width for your calculation. A 2x10 is not a true 10" wide. 

You also cannot drill holes within 2" of any other holes or notches, or within 2" of the top or bottom of the joist. 
You cannot notch holes in the tension side of joists that are THICKER than 4" unless it's at the ends. 

You can't notch in the middle 1/3 span of a joist. 

And you cannot drill or notch any I beam unless the hole was specifically engineered during the design phase. 

This is outlined in the International Residential Code if anyone needs that type of info.


----------



## jlaw3x7

guitarguy316 said:


> the amazon basis aren't "certified" but has anyone ever had problems with them doing 4k hdr, etc.


Yes, I had problems with my samsung ks8500. current AmazonBasics cannot do UHD 4:4:4 without dropouts even at 10 feet. Neither does Securomax at 15 feet. Monoprice premium (the best of those I have tried so far) 10 foot has occasional dropouts which can usually be solved for a while by renegotiating the handshake. Terra Grand 6 foot has high quantity of dropouts... Probably going to try kabeldirect top series next but waiting on this next arrow report before pulling the trigger.

[edit]
It turns out my video card was the problem. I had an Asus DUAL-GTX1070-O8G GeForce GTX 1070 which I sent in for evaluation after having this issue with so many cables. They sent me back a STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING GTX 1070 that works fine with my 10 foot AmazonBasics cable.


----------



## scarabaeus

Operon said:


> What? A robust capacity finally for, what's this iteration, 3? Perhaps 3 times the charm. And what's the Ethernet bandwidth rating for HDMI 2.1? Now that GB Ethernet has been pedestrian for about a decade?


Glad you ask. 100 kBit/s! Probably among the many reasons why not a single consumer device in the market supports the HDMI Ethernet channel.

So, to make good use of the Ethernet-capable cables, eARC will take advantage of those wires to deliver high-bandwidth audio, with its own capability and setup signaling over those same wires. No more messing around with CEC to get the return channel to work.


----------



## kwindrem

scarabaeus said:


> Glad you ask. 100 kBit/s! Probably among the many reasons why not a single consumer device in the market supports the HDMI Ethernet channel.
> 
> So, to make good use of the Ethernet-capable cables, eARC will take advantage of those wires to deliver high-bandwidth audio, with its own capability and setup signaling over those same wires. No more messing around with CEC to get the return channel to work.


I hope that's true about eARC not being part of CEC. For me, CEC was a disaster. I use a universal remote that makes changes on several devices at once and that set off a CEC war between my Pioneer AVR and LG OLED TV. It often took 30 seconds for the system to stabilize and often either the TV or the AVR ended up on the wrong input. I had to fall back on an optical connection for TV audio to the AVR. ARC being part of CEC falls into the "what were they thinking" category.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that's why I gave up on CEC/ARC years ago and just used an optical from tv to receiver for OTA audio and a Harmony remote for single remote control of my entire HTS. No muss, no fuss and it works perfect every time.


----------



## Operon

scarabaeus said:


> Glad you ask. 100 kBit/s! Probably among the many reasons why not a single consumer device in the market supports the HDMI Ethernet channel.
> 
> So, to make good use of the Ethernet-capable cables, eARC will take advantage of those wires to deliver high-bandwidth audio, with its own capability and setup signaling over those same wires. No more messing around with CEC to get the return channel to work.


Yeah, but why did it take this long for a robust bandwidth spec for ARC? (A rhetorical question that need not be answered.) Ethernet HDMI is like a solution looking for a problem. And it's still looking. More like a solution looking to create problems.


----------



## SQCraving

I just used the Monoprice in 50ft and it is working great. Beautiful picture.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SQCraving said:


> I just used the Monoprice in 50ft and it is working great. Beautiful picture.


1080p, 4k, or 4k HDR?


----------



## SQCraving

Otto Pylot said:


> 1080p, 4k, or 4k HDR?


4K material and TV. I run my Samsung 4K player through my Denim 3300X receiver to the TV. I used 6ft monoprice cables from 4K player to receiver then a 50ft monoprice cable (21567) from the receiver to the TV. I hope that helps.


----------



## ereed

SQCraving said:


> 4K material and TV. I run my Samsung 4K player through my Denim 3300X receiver to the TV. I used 6ft monoprice cables from 4K player to receiver then a 50ft monoprice cable (21567) from the receiver to the TV. I hope that helps.


You need to take pic showing the resolution, etc. I doubt you are getting 4K with 50 foot cable PLUS going through receiver PLUS 6 more foot of hdmi. If so, you are extremely lucky! But please show proof and all your gear you are running such as AVR make/model, all cable make/model, etc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. A 56' run of cable, with a receiver in between, is doubtful, but not impossible. Certainly not with passive cables but possibly with active cables.


----------



## kgveteran

I just picked up a used Celerity on ebay.... Its a 35' DFO, but its a 16gbps :0/

Any thoughts on this, it passes 1080p fine, pic it sharp and clear, but 1080 aint 4K


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ that's the old model of Celerity that folks are starting to dump because they don't work well with the newer video standards. The newest FO cables have been tested and possibly certified for 18Gbps. Very few people have difficulty with 1080p but 4k UHD at 35' ain't gonna happen.


----------



## jong1

^^ I was sold the old Celerity cable as "new" by their UK distributor and it worked exactly as advertised - fine for all modes up to 14Gbps but not for 18Gbps.

All credit to Celerity, they replaced it themselves free of charge and the latest version works great @18Gbps. But I fear that 16Gbps cable will need replacing if you want full HDMI 2.0 compatibility.


----------



## kgveteran

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ that's the old model of Celerity that folks are starting to dump because they don't work well with the newer video standards. The newest FO cables have been tested and possibly certified for 18Gbps. Very few people have difficulty with 1080p but 4k UHD at 35' ain't gonna happen.





jong1 said:


> ^^ I was sold the old Celerity cable as "new" by their UK distributor and it worked exactly as advertised - fine for all modes up to 14Gbps but not for 18Gbps.
> 
> All credit to Celerity, they replaced it themselves free of charge and the latest version works great @18Gbps. But I fear that 16Gbps cable will need replacing if you want full HDMI 2.0 compatibility.


Now that stinks, i guess i will see when i pick up my NvidiaShieldTV for 4K viewing........


----------



## Otto Pylot

Even if the cable is "certified" for 18Gbps there's still not a 100% guarantee that it will work for any distance longer than 30' for 40' for all setups/hardware. They should..... just keep that in the back of your mind.


----------



## kgveteran

Otto Pylot said:


> Even if the cable is "certified" for 18Gbps there's still not a 100% guarantee that it will work for any distance longer than 30' for 40' for all setups/hardware. They should..... just keep that in the back of your mind.


 Its Witchcraft i tell ya .


----------



## Otto Pylot

kgveteran said:


> Its Witchcraft i tell ya .


..... more like market manipulation between the cable mfrs and the tv mfrs


----------



## Dundas

Alternative to the Gigabit Accelerator?

PXLDRIVE Max 4K Extender :
https://www.pixelgendesign.com/products/pxldrive

Short review:
https://www.wifihifi.ca/LatestNewsH...daPXLDrive4KHDMIExtenderisaDreamComeTrue.html


----------



## Venicenerd

ARROW-AV said:


> *OR* run your cable hidden but surface mounted such that it can be readily accessed and/or replaced at any time, such as using reliable 18Gbps HDMI cables that are only circa 3mm in external diameter, which can be invisibly run along/behind/under skirtings, carpets, rugs etc... Do this and there's no need to open up walls, ceilings, or use a conduit  But otherwise yes absolutely
> 
> *UPDATE:* Hi folks, so we just received delivery of the longer length winning Monoprice cables, namely 75ft/23m, 100ft/31m, and 150ft/46m; where we will be carrying out the same testing and evalution on these and will post this REPORT #2 on here shortly with the results. The one thing that immediately struck us was just how ridiculously comparatively small is the box that contains 12 cables at these very long lengths where initial impressions are that the 150ft/46m length cables rolled up are smaller in size than some of the 50ft/15m cables that we tested, which is crazy... We'll take some comparative photos to illustrate this.
> 
> After that we will be covering the 'shorter-longer-length' cables, namely 20ft/6m - 33ft/10m, which we will publish as our REPORT #3.
> .


Any update on the 75ft monoprice test? I currently have a 60' Celerity cable installed but I'm experiencing issues with 4k-60Hz-4:2:2. I recently updated my Sony Z9D to the latest firmware and I trouble may have started there. I believe the HDMI ports got updated to 2.0b. May not have anything to do with it but my cable is extremely unreliable all of a sudden. 

Anyways, not sure the 50' monoprice will be long enough. It would be risky. Do you know when you'll have the test results for the 75' in? Need to replace my Celerity.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Venicenerd said:


> Any update on the 75ft monoprice test? I currently have a 60' Celerity cable installed but I'm experiencing issues with 4k-60Hz-4:2:2. I recently updated my Sony Z9D to the latest firmware and I trouble may have started there. I believe the HDMI ports got updated to 2.0b. May not have anything to do with it but my cable is extremely unreliable all of a sudden.
> 
> Anyways, not sure the 50' monoprice will be long enough. It would be risky. *Do you know when you'll have the test results for the 75' in? *Need to replace my Celerity.


We will be posting the results within the next 24 hours 

.


----------



## yacht422

running a RuiPro 10 meter Ultra Slim HDMI Active Optical cable with faultless performance.
OPPO 203 to Anthem AVM 60 to JVC DLA X 770 projector. 
passes everything - - - no dropouts sparkles etc.
Planet Earth ll in 4K HDR beggars description!!
Walt


----------



## conan481

ARROW-AV said:


> We will be posting the results within the next 24 hours
> 
> .


Thanks!

Looking forward to the results.


----------



## warnija

Venicenerd said:


> Any update on the 75ft monoprice test? I currently have a 60' Celerity cable installed but I'm experiencing issues with 4k-60Hz-4:2:2. I recently updated my Sony Z9D to the latest firmware and I trouble may have started there. I believe the HDMI ports got updated to 2.0b. May not have anything to do with it but my cable is extremely unreliable all of a sudden.
> 
> Anyways, not sure the 50' monoprice will be long enough. It would be risky. Do you know when you'll have the test results for the 75' in? Need to replace my Celerity.


I purchased the 75' Monoprice cable and it worked great in all applications I tested. However, I ended up returning it as it did not support ARC. I then purchased the RUIPRO cable which supports ARC and has worked flawlessly for the past month.


----------



## conan481

warnija said:


> I purchased the 75' Monoprice cable and it worked great in all applications I tested. However, I ended up returning it as it did not support ARC. I then purchased the RUIPRO cable which supports ARC and has worked flawlessly for the past month.


Did you test 60hz 444 chroma?


----------



## Venicenerd

warnija said:


> I purchased the 75' Monoprice cable and it worked great in all applications I tested. However, I ended up returning it as it did not support ARC. I then purchased the RUIPRO cable which supports ARC and has worked flawlessly for the past month.


And it is confirmed that the Monoprice does NOT support ARC? That would be a deal breaker. I wouldn't mind getting the RUIPRO but the shipping times from Amazon are insane for that cable. 

Do both cables support Ethernet over HDMI?

I'd really prefer the monoprice cable because I only need 60 feet and the RUIPRO is 100'. I think the 50' may be just a tad to short for me.


----------



## ARROW-AV

*UPDATE:* *TEST REPORT #2 now added to OP; this relates to the longer length Monoprice cables product codes 21568-21570 (75ft/23m, 100ft/30m, and 150ft/45m). Which you can find HERE:* 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...ly-support-18gbps-hdmi-2-0b.html#post52755273 

.


----------



## Venicenerd

ARROW-AV said:


> *UPDATE:* *TEST REPORT #2 now added to OP, which you can find HERE:*
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...ly-support-18gbps-hdmi-2-0b.html#post52755273
> 
> .


Amazing. Thank you! I ordered a 75" monoprice and can confirm that it works for me as well. However, no ARC. 

Is that really confirmed? The monoprice can't do ARC?


----------



## Venicenerd

ruipro said:


> The new designed cable which added shielding for 14/17 copper wire will come out soon for ARC 192Khz issue
> Thank you very much :
> 
> Thomas


Thomas, could you give us and update on the revised cable? If I order from Amazon now will I be receiving the revised version with proper shielding?

Thanks!


----------



## ruipro

Venicenerd said:


> Thomas, could you give us and update on the revised cable? If I order from Amazon now will I be receiving the revised version with proper shielding?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Venicenerd,

The new designed cable will come out within the next week.
The new designed cable need be verified internally and just be sold and shipped from us (CN) for a period.

Thank you,
Thomas


----------



## Venicenerd

ruipro said:


> Hi Venicenerd,
> 
> The new designed cable will come out within the next week.
> The new designed cable need be verified internally and just be sold and shipped from us (CN) for a period.
> 
> Thank you,
> Thomas


Hi Thomas. Thank you! Where should I order then to make sure that I receive the new cable?

Thanks!


----------



## jlaw3x7

ARROW-AV said:


> *UPDATE:* *TEST REPORT #2 now added to OP; this relates to the longer length Monoprice cables product codes 21568-21570 (75ft/23m, 100ft/30m, and 150ft/45m). Which you can find HERE:*
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...ly-support-18gbps-hdmi-2-0b.html#post52755273
> 
> .


Please consider adding Blue Jeans cables for the next round.


----------



## ARROW-AV

jlaw3x7 said:


> Please consider adding Blue Jeans cables for the next round.


Already on the list  

.


----------



## jlaw3x7

Zaa said:


> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Thank you for the feedback.
> 
> This is very strange because I have it connected to my TV with an Amazon basics 6ft cable at present and it is doing [email protected] without issue. I also noticed that, with the ruipro, the screen turns black for a couple of seconds randomly when using [email protected]


 @Zaa did you get a working ruipro cable?


----------



## ruipro

Venicenerd said:


> Hi Thomas. Thank you! Where should I order then to make sure that I receive the new cable?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Venicenerd,

Thank you for your interest.
I will post here and advise you when sample is avilable.
It should be ordered via our paypal account for a period(1 month).

Once the cable is vefiried fully we will launch them to our Distribution/AMZ/AMZ Global Shipping.
BTW, we currently have distributors in Italy/Spain/UK. Othere areas we are still developing.
Thank you,

Thomas


----------



## WildBoar

*Ruipro and 8m or 9m*

Thomas

Do yo have any plans for 8m or 9m length in a near future? Currently I just can see a minimal of 10m length in your web.

Where can I access your european distributors list?

Keep up the good work!


----------



## ruipro

WildBoar said:


> Thomas
> 
> Do yo have any plans for 8m or 9m length in a near future? Currently I just can see a minimal of 10m length in your web.
> 
> Where can I access your european distributors list?
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Hi WildBoar,

Thank you for your question.
Currently no plan for 8m/9m, as these lengths do not have a good market performance.
But if you need a special length, you could contact us by [email protected].
I think the cost will as similar as 10m.

EU distributors:
Please also contact the above email, the support person will advise you.
Thank you,

Thomas


----------



## ARROW-AV

*Confirmation from MONOPRICE:*


*"With this cable you are correct, it doesn't support ARC but it does support Ethernet over HDMI."*

.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> *Confirmation from MONOPRICE:*
> 
> 
> *"With this cable you are correct, it doesn't support ARC but it does support Ethernet over HDMI."*
> 
> .


That's a little confusing as HDMI with ethernet has been around for a long time. The problem is that it was never embraced by the device mfrs so it is a useless spec.


----------



## Bytehoven

I thought I might show how I ran my conduit when we built out our 20'x25' HT a few years back. Even with the 90* turns, I have no problem pulling Two older Monoprice 24ga HDMI cables thru. 

This conduit run measures 19' end to end, then I need about 6' more to reach the projector and down to the AV rack. So I need a 25'30' cable.

If I had it to do over, I would have tried to get a total cable run of around 20', but I worried about running the conduit thru the manufactured I floor joist. 

While these older Monoprice cable seem to do OK with [email protected] 4:2:0, I have had issues with my Roku Ultra in 4K HDR mode, as well as some occasional drop out (black screen) from my UB900. So it's time to upgrade and pull something new thru the conduit.

My set up is a Denon x2200 and RS520.

I will be temporarily running 15' Mono Price Certified Premium until the 3rd installment of the 25'-35' cable test is completed and posted. I am leaning towards either the Slimrun 30' or Ruipro 33', but will wait to see the 3rd test.

Byte
....


----------



## Mike_WI

Bytehoven said:


> I thought I might show how I ran my conduit when we built out our 20'x25' HT a few years back. Even with the 90* turns, I have no problem pulling Two older Monoprice 24ga HDMI cables thru.
> 
> This conduit run measures 19' end to end, then I need about 6' more to reach the projector and down to the AV rack. So I need a 25'30' cable.
> 
> If I had it to do over, I would have tried to get a total cable run of around 20', but I worried about running the conduit thru the manufactured I floor joist.
> 
> While these older Monoprice cable seem to do OK with [email protected] 4:2:0, I have had issues with my Roku Ultra in 4K HDR mode, as well as some occasional drop out (black screen) from my UB900. So it's time to upgrade and pull something new thru the conduit.
> 
> My set up is a Denon x2200 and RS520.
> 
> I will be temporarily running 15' Mono Price Certified Premium until the 3rd installment of the 25'-35' cable test is completed and posted. I am leaning towards either the Slimrun 30' or Ruipro 33', but will wait to see the 3rd test.
> 
> Byte
> ....


I wish my conduit was that wide.
My installers put in much smaller corrugated blue (smurf?) conduit.

Mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ 1.5" - 2.0" diameter is what is recommended for conduit.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> That's a little confusing as HDMI with ethernet has been around for a long time. The problem is that it was never embraced by the device mfrs so it is a useless spec.


Don't shoot the messenger  

.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> Don't shoot the messenger
> 
> .


That wasn't meant for you  Folks get all excited when they see "with ethernet", and cable mfrs like to push it so it's just a marketing term plain and simple that does absolutely nothing for the consumer. Maybe that ethernet channel will be useful with HDMI 2.1 (eARC?).


----------



## Bytehoven

Arrow... is there a particular part of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk you use for the 4K HDR stress test?

Thanks

I'll be testing (3) cables...

I am running a 3' Monoprice Premium High Speed HMDI from my UB900 to a Denon x2200W Receiver. The from the receiver to a JVC RS520 I'll be testing....

- 6 year old Monoprice 30' 24AWG CoPartner with Ethernet (currently working with UB900 and Roku Ultra, but have had some sync freezes when switching sources and some total picture black out)

- 20' Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI

- Monoprice 30' Cabernet Series High Speed HDMI

I'd love any feedback on what to look for. I assume we're talking pass/fail as far as anything making it to the RS520.

RJ
....


----------



## Bytehoven

OK...

1st pic is my 6 year old 30' Monoprice CoPartner with Ethernet 24AWG HDMI cable.

2nd pic is 20' Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed (CPHS) HDMI cable

3rd pic is 20' Monoprice CPHS HDMI cable + 6' Monoprice CPHS HDMI cable using a female/female extender connector.

There is no 4th pic because the Cabernet 30' failed to deliver a signal. I could hear the projector switch, but no pic. I even tried swapping end incase the Source/TV was incorrectly labeled, and still no pic.

While watching I saw HEVC data rates hit into the 70Mbps range without a hiccup.

I have (4) of those 30' 6 year old cables I have used on video shoots to hook up client reference monitors. Monoprice must have built them way over spec. I'd love to send ya one Arrow for you to run through the bandwidth test.

RJ
....


----------



## kwindrem

Bytehoven said:


> There is no 4th pic because the Cabernet 30' failed to deliver a signal. I could hear the projector switch, but no pic.


Not a surprise. The Cabernet cables support 10.2 Gb/s but don't support 18 GB/s.


----------



## jfh24

ARROW-AV said:


> *UPDATE:* *TEST REPORT #2 now added to OP; this relates to the longer length Monoprice cables product codes 21568-21570 (75ft/23m, 100ft/30m, and 150ft/45m). Which you can find HERE:*
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...ly-support-18gbps-hdmi-2-0b.html#post52755273
> 
> .


Thanks for all this work. In searching Amazon, it looks like they put a 1 in front of all the model numbers. For example 21568 =121568. But searching by the 1 included numbers gets the correct cable. Any idea why?


----------



## thbrewst

For starters, I just came across this thread and it is AWESOME!! Thanks so much for doing this testing.

In my specific situation I am having to replace a damaged cable behind a wall that is not in a conduit. I am wondering (understanding that this will be a subjective answer) did you feel that the Ruipro and/or MP SlimRun cables were any more or less delicate than a typical cable? I am wondering how they would stand up to being pulled through the wall for my replacement.

Thanks for your opinions.


----------



## 996911

thbrewst said:


> For starters, I just came across this thread and it is AWESOME!! Thanks so much for doing this testing.
> 
> In my specific situation I am having to replace a damaged cable behind a wall that is not in a conduit. I am wondering (understanding that this will be a subjective answer) did you feel that the Ruipro and/or MP SlimRun cables were any more or less delicate than a typical cable? I am wondering how they would stand up to being pulled through the wall for my replacement.
> 
> Thanks for your opinions.


More delicate since the Ruipro is a fiber cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. The cables are more fragile than copper so fishing them thru walls, without conduit, is difficult but not impossible. You really have to keep bend radius in mind which is also a problem with conduit but easier to do. I think the biggest issue folks have is pulling the cable thru by the connector end. You just need to be careful.


----------



## GooMan2

*Stupid Question*

Does anyone know if there is a way to get the more detailed resolution information on a Sony (850D). When I press "Display" it shows the signal is 4K, but nothing about HDR or Chroma SS. If I press "action menu" and then select picture, I can see whether HDR mode is on (not sure if that means HDR is being passed to the TV or if it is enabling HDR or an SDR signal)? Just want to check if the monoprice cable I bought is working (I assume it is, since I get a picture, but I like to double check . . . )

EDIT: Thank you by the way for the cable test reports. They were awesome and very helpful.


----------



## Joe Fernand

'With Ethernet' does seem to have an advantage when you want to use ARC due to how the conductors are screened so there may be some method in the madness after all!

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> +1. The cables are more fragile than copper so fishing them thru walls, without conduit, is difficult but not impossible. You really have to keep bend radius in mind which is also a problem with conduit but easier to do. I think the biggest issue folks have is pulling the cable thru by the connector end. You just need to be careful.


Exactly reply for pulling the cable thru walls.
The biggest item which need to be more careful is the point of the Connector-Cable.

Thomas


----------



## T-Bone

I just picked up a cable that is on the list... the Sewell *40 foot* passive 24 AWG cable. Amazon has it listed.

I think the xbox is putting out 4:2:2 since I had that box checked to Allow 4:2:2. My JVC RS420 states just YUV received (does not state the chroma), but it is 12-bit. 

See pics. This is 17.8 Gps, right? 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit?

-T


----------



## Otto Pylot

The cable may be tested out at 18Gbps but whether it is successful in your setup depends in large part on your connected hardware, how the cable is laid, etc. The list is not a guarantee that any one cable will work. It's just a list of cables and how they tested out. 17.8Gbps?


----------



## T-Bone

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable may be tested out at 18Gbps but whether it is successful in your setup depends in large part on your connected hardware, how the cable is laid, etc. The list is not a guarantee that any one cable will work. It's just a list of cables and how they tested out. 17.8Gbps?


Thanks for replying. The reason I said 17.8 gigabit-per-second because I was reading some charts online and that's what they specified as the needed bandwidth for that signal. I guess they were being precise when everyone else just rounded up to 18.

-T


----------



## T-Bone

T-Bone said:


> Thanks for replying. The reason I said 17.8 gigabit-per-second because I was reading some charts online and that's what they specified as the needed bandwidth for that signal. I guess they were being precise when everyone else just rounded up to 18.
> 
> -T


Sewell's test of their 40' passive cable.






-T


----------



## 703

Do these fibre optic cables work with HDMI 1.3/1.4 ports?


----------



## T-Bone

703 said:


> Do these fibre optic cables work with HDMI 1.3/1.4 ports?


Should work. The plug end is the same for HDMI 2.0 as it was for HDMI 1.4.

-T


----------



## Joe Fernand

The Ruipro and Celerity cables work with all current HDMI options (Inc older hardware revisions).

Always test before you 'install' as there are bound to be some odd combinations which could be problematic (haven't found any so far!).

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ss9001

I've had very poor reliability with Celerity's FO cable. Bought & tested 6 months ago for ~15 min with both a Marantz AV8802A and Oppo 203 player to a Pioneer Kuro (hdmi 1.3) plasma. Installed in raceway and still no problems so unplugged the cable ends while I finished all my setup changes for Atmos over the 6 months. Plugged it back into the Marantz & the Oppo last night & got blank screens no matter what I tried. Dead, no HDCP handshake apparently. Got a splash logo screen once for both then it disappeared permanently. 40 ft runs of Blue Jeans series 1 with 6 ft runs of their series 2 work perfectly for 1080p since that's all I have now. 

A week ago, the vendor replaced the cable with a new spool and I found the R connector/chipset needed replacing but I went ahead and replaced the cable and both connectors. This was about 6 days ago. Plugged it back up last night since I'm finished with the setup and it worked again for about 15-20 min. But it failed again 30 min later and this time I found the R connector to be DEAD! No problem with the USB wallwart I bought from the vendor so it's the connector again. Apparently the chipset inside burns out.

Defective runs? Defective chipsets? Poor QC control? Too sensitive to port voltage? 

After a long discussion with the vendor last night, they agreed to replace it for the 3rd time. But I have no confidence that it will be reliable since 2 R connector failures out of 2 is a terrible track record.

Many may be having 100% success with Celerity but I'm not impressed with their QC or the reliability of the chipset convertors and/or connectors.

I've been at audio for 40+ yrs and have a setup with $50K of excellent gear. Been using HDMI since it came out, and no problems except this dam cable! So its not me or my gear. I know how to use HDMI. I have 2 40+ ft long runs with Blue Jeans Series 1 cable which is flawless so it's not my gear or setup. I wanted FO because I plan to get 4K display this year and know that 40 ft copper runs, even with BJC Series 1, will probably not work for full 18 GBPS. 

Very disappointed with this product. Flimsy, not robust looking connector ends, with 2 failure points on each connector and for me, zero reliability.

But I'm going to try it again a 3rd time since the vendor is sending out a 2nd replacement. Maybe the vendor got a bad batch. But I ordered 50 ft of RUIPRO from Amazon last night anyway. And a whole lot cheaper than Celerity too!

Based on what I've read from the test reports, both Monoprice's SlimRun and RUIPRO seem to be the best reliable optical for long runs. Doesn't matter to me if it's pure optical or hybrid as long as it works! The cable chipsets shouldn't die after being on for only 20 min  

And I'm calling Celerity this AM to let them know. Maybe they have an answer or know they had some defective chips out there.



The only good thing to come out of this is the vendor agreed to replace it again but it took some persuasion. If this one fails, then I'll chalk it up to a poorly made product and for me, a bad buy. Waste of $300.


----------



## BondDonBond

Excellent Thx


----------



## tomiy1

Is it worth going CAT7 routed in the conduit to "future proof" speeds or will CAT6a do just as well if/when HDMI 2.1 baluns/extenders come out?


----------



## Postmoderndesign

I installed cat6a in conduit in March because I was doing a remodel. 

I read that Cat7 was not designed to carry HDMI. I do not know if that is true. 

Until the baluns or matrix switches exist I don't think we will know.


----------



## Cozmo85

Thank you for this. Grabbed the bluerigger from the list as it passed all but the most strenuous test and didnt cost $100+. works great at 35ft.


----------



## farsider3000

Just bought the first place winner: 75 ft MONOPRICE | SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices [email protected], YUV4:4:4.

I won't be able to test transmission of HDR for a while but I love the slim cable since I have to route it to my pull out Middle Atlantic shelf system.

Thanks to the OP for testing these cables.


----------



## Kazz063

I'll have a Ruipro 10m cable coming, hopefully tomorrow, looking forward to not having issues every time I do a FW update on the Oppo 203 with a cable that can't do full bandwidth.
I know it's only a matter of a couple of presses of the resolution button on the Oppo remote but it's still a pain. 

For anyone here from Australia or New Zealand we now have an official Australian based Ruipro distributor in EZYHD.com.au so it's now a whole lot easier to get one of these.


----------



## Bili5

I've been searching and searching and searching... Does anyone know which seller ships FO HDMI cables internationally? Poland to be exact. I really need a 10m cable that can send [email protected] with full 4:4:4 subsampling or RGB.


----------



## pankov

ARROW-AV said:


> Already on the list


ARROW-AV,
would you please also add the Bullet Train cables (both short and long haul) from AVProConnect
http://www.avproconnect.com/bullet-train-hdmi-cables.html
in your next test?

These cables were featured in this year's TV Shootout at CE Week and should be 18Gbps & HDMI2.0b compliant.



Bili5 said:


> I've been searching and searching and searching... Does anyone know which seller ships FO HDMI cables internationally? Poland to be exact. I really need a 10m cable that can send [email protected] with full 4:4:4 subsampling or RGB.


Ruipro are shipping internationally and also have a UK dealer (https://tmfsolutions.co.uk/) so you should give them a try. Also AFAIK AVProConnect will ship internationally and despite being a copper cable at 10m their Bullet Train cable should probably also work.


----------



## Bili5

pankov said:


> ARROW-AV,
> 
> Ruipro are shipping internationally and also have a UK dealer (https://tmfsolutions.co.uk/) so you should give them a try. Also AFAIK AVProConnect will ship internationally and despite being a copper cable at 10m their Bullet Train cable should probably also work.


As a matter of fact, Ruipro answered me yesterday that they will ship it to me


----------



## RobertR

I have a question about repeated HDMI cable runs. Would a 4K signal pass intact from an Nvidia graphics card with a run of 30ft to an Oppo 203, then a run of 20-25 feet to my projector?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hmmm, 55' with a device in between. Possibly with fiber on both ends.


----------



## RobertR

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, 55' with a device in between. Possibly with fiber on both ends.


 After further reading, it sounds like it would be better to play files from the computer using the Oppo as a network device.


----------



## GooMan2

I got an email ad from monoprice about some new cables:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131

They claim [email protected] 4:4:4, 50ft for $65. No reviews yet, but could be a good option if it works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ probably an active cable. Lots of mfrs make claims like that so all you can do is try, and pay careful attention to the return policy.


----------



## grendelrt

RobertR said:


> I have a question about repeated HDMI cable runs. Would a 4K signal pass intact from an Nvidia graphics card with a run of 30ft to an Oppo 203, then a run of 20-25 feet to my projector?





Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, 55' with a device in between. Possibly with fiber on both ends.


I've always wondered about that, would it actually be a full 55' run when there is a receiver or other device in the middle? I would assume that once the device picks up the incoming signal it would then send the signal from its chipset out, which would start the distance of that run at that device.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ it's always possible but you have no way of knowing the version or build of the HDMI chipsets is the connected devices (sources/sinks). The more demanding the video standards being pushed, the more difficult it is to maintain that over long distances.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Unlikely the 'active' device is in the middle of the cable run - the Active Chip will be in one or other (or both) HDMI connectors.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RobertR

It's been over three months, and I don't see the report on 20 to 30 foot cables. What's the ETA on that?


----------



## meburdick

grendelrt said:


> I've always wondered about that, would it actually be a full 55' run when there is a receiver or other device in the middle? I would assume that once the device picks up the incoming signal it would then send the signal from its chipset out, which would start the distance of that run at that device.


I'm with you on this...

If the signal reaches the end of one cable and it's "correct", then it will be transmitted across the second cable correctly as well and it would be up to THAT cable as to whether it reached the other end correctly as well. No?


----------



## RobertR

meburdick said:


> I'm with you on this...
> 
> If the signal reaches the end of one cable and it's "correct", then it will be transmitted across the second cable correctly as well and it would be up to THAT cable as to whether it reached the other end correctly as well. No?


Yes, why isn't the signal "renewed"? It's assumed, of course, that it reaches the intermediate device correctly, and that the intermediate device handles it correctly. That seems like a very different situation from a single long run.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'If the signal reaches the end of one cable and it's "correct", then it will be transmitted across the second cable correctly as well and it would be up to THAT cable as to whether it reached the other end correctly as well. No?'_ - if you are talking about Source > Active cable > Intermediary 'repeater' device > Active cable > Sink - that is a whole heap of unknowns.

Joe


----------



## RobertR

Joe Fernand said:


> _'If the signal reaches the end of one cable and it's "correct", then it will be transmitted across the second cable correctly as well and it would be up to THAT cable as to whether it reached the other end correctly as well. No?'_ - if you are talking about Source > Active cable > Intermediary 'repeater' device > Active cable > Sink - that is a whole heap of unknowns.
> 
> Joe


What about the same scenario with passive cables?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Passive HDMI cables - I'd be limiting any cable runs to 8m and now you need to know if the 'Repeater' device is going to 're-clock' the signal to ensure it will run out another 8m or not, you will also need to ensure the 'Repeater' device supports the signal format you want to deliver to your Sink.

Joe


----------



## Noah Moore

I saw these DTECH optical hdmi cables and they said that these cables support [email protected] HDR 4:4:4, was there anyone bought one? I saw the amazing reports here, but these cable are not included, I’m kinda interested on them. 

DTECH 50 ft Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K at 60Hz HDR 18Gbps High Speed Chroma Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0
DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 200 ft Support 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors

Anyone any advice?

Thanks 
Noah


----------



## Jedi_Mike

Noah Moore said:


> I saw these DTECH optical hdmi cables and they said that these cables support [email protected] HDR 4:4:4, was there anyone bought one? I saw the amazing reports here, but these cable are not included, I’m kinda interested on them.
> 
> DTECH 50 ft Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K at 60Hz HDR 18Gbps High Speed Chroma Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0
> DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 200 ft Support 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors
> 
> Anyone any advice?
> 
> Thanks
> Noah


Noah,
Just by chance, I visited this thread to report my experiences with the DTech cable. I had been waiting for the Monoprice 21567 to come back in stock, as it had been listed as ETA July 30th for a few weeks. Come July 30th, though, Monoprice moved back the ETA for availability to Aug 18th. I was planning to re-wire my theater and install a new AVR on the weekend of Aug 5, and by that time it was too late to go with the RuiPro, as the shipping was too slow.

So, to make a long story short, I couldn't get the Monoprice or Ruipro cables in time, so I took a bit of a gamble and ordered the DTech DT-HF202 50 foot (16m) cable from Amazon, as it is Amazon Prime eligible. It turns out it worked fine for me at 4K / 60 / 4:4:4, although of course my sample size of one does not compare to the thorough testing that Arrow AV has published here. For reference, I have a Marantz SR-6011 receiver feeding the JVC-RS500. Sources I tested with were a Philips UHD player (which has a separate setting for 60/4:4:4) and Chromecast Ultra.

The reason I chose the DTech DT-HF202 is that it appears to be identical to the Monoprice 21567. These photos show that they look identical (more pics available at the respective websites), and the two cables have matching specs. One downside: I'm hoping I won't have to figure out how to get warrantee coverage from DTech. 

DTech link: http://www.dtechelectronics.com/dtech-dt-hf202-fiber-optic-hdmi2-0-cable-16m_p160.html
Amazon link: https://smile.amazon.com/DTECH-Fiber-18Gbps-Chroma-Subsampling/dp/B073P5WGGN


----------



## Noah Moore

Jedi_Mike said:


> Noah,
> Just by chance, I visited this thread to report my experiences with the DTech cable. I had been waiting for the Monoprice 21567 to come back in stock, as it had been listed as ETA July 30th for a few weeks. Come July 30th, though, Monoprice moved back the ETA for availability to Aug 18th. I was planning to re-wire my theater and install a new AVR on the weekend of Aug 5, and by that time it was too late to go with the RuiPro, as the shipping was too slow.
> 
> So, to make a long story short, I couldn't get the Monoprice or Ruipro cables in time, so I took a bit of a gamble and ordered the DTech DT-HF202 50 foot (16m) cable from Amazon, as it is Amazon Prime eligible. It turns out it worked fine for me at 4K / 60 / 4:4:4, although of course my sample size of one does not compare to the thorough testing that Arrow AV has published here. For reference, I have a Marantz SR-6011 receiver feeding the JVC-RS500. Sources I tested with were a Philips UHD player (which has a separate setting for 60/4:4:4) and Chromecast Ultra.
> 
> The reason I chose the DTech DT-HF202 is that it appears to be identical to the Monoprice 21567. These photos show that they look identical (more pics available at the respective websites), and the two cables have matching specs. One downside: I'm hoping I won't have to figure out how to get warrantee coverage from DTech.
> 
> Thank you! Just ordered one


----------



## rhinoAVS

GooMan2 said:


> I got an email ad from monoprice about some new cables:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> They claim [email protected] 4:4:4, 50ft for $65. No reviews yet, but could be a good option if it works.


Just want to report that I ordered this cable in the 50ft length and tested it over the weekend. Happy to find that it worked just fine with my test equipment and transmitted 4K60 4:4:4 from my Denon X7200WA to an LG UH6100 TV. HDR and ARC also worked fine. 

YMMV but definitely worth a try.


----------



## guitarguy316

i am going to order 2 Blue Jeans FE cables...I need an 8ft one to connect from Oppo 203 to TV, and a short one (3ft or less) to connect directv into hdmi in. is there any issue using less than 6ft cable?


----------



## Jeff_D

I purchased two of the Sewell Light-link 50ft cables when they were on amazon for $90 each (can be purchased from sewelldirect for $159). X1S/PC->Marantz AV7702MkII->Optoma UHD60. These cables worked on all settings 4:2:2 12bit 4:4:4 8bit. I watch several HDR movies and played HDR games they all worked perfectly.


----------



## RobertR

rhinoAVS said:


> Just want to report that I ordered this cable in the 50ft length and tested it over the weekend. Happy to find that it worked just fine with my test equipment and transmitted 4K60 4:4:4 from my Denon X7200WA to an LG UH6100 TV. HDR and ARC also worked fine.
> 
> YMMV but definitely worth a try.



I really appreciate this report. I see that they also come in a 25 foot length, which is what I would use. If they work well for you at 50 ft. then that bodes well for 25 ft.


----------



## neocataboi

GooMan2 said:


> I got an email ad from monoprice about some new cables:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> They claim [email protected] 4:4:4, 50ft for $65. No reviews yet, but could be a good option if it works.


Full disclosure, I'm on the Monoprice development team. The new lines of active HDMI cables use the Spectra 7 HT8181 chipset, specifically designed around HDMI 2.0 compliance. Monoprice was one of the first vendors to get the ball rolling with the HT8181 and it's difficult being first sometimes. We should see other manufactures launching their HT8181 cables in the next several months in time for the holidays. 

Monoprice has worked closely with Spectra7, whom is formerly known as Redmere, for many years and Monoprice helped make the Redmere name synonymous with high speed active HDMI cables. We were very early adopters of the technology and in turn one of the first cables out there. The existing Luxe and Cabernet Series Cables share a now legacy chipset that was optimized to 18Gbps of bandwidth but were designed well before HDMI 2.0 was a thing, this is the next evolution of the same tech. 

More information on the HT8181 chipset can be found on Spectra 7s website. 

With that said, we've ran these new series of cables through the same paces as the SlimRunAV HDR cables and have the added benefit of ARC compatibility. 

I don't mean for this to be a /r/hailcorporate type post. Please reach out to me via PM if you have any questions. i don't want to lead the thread off topic.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ thanks for the post. We've been waiting for more info on the newest HDMI chipsets so this is welcome news. I would imagine that they will be backward compatible with the older versions but if all HDMI chipsets in the chain are not the same, then the communication falls back to common denominator which could cause issues? Hopefully the device mfrs will start to incorporate the new chipsets soon.


----------



## neocataboi

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ thanks for the post. We've been waiting for more info on the newest HDMI chipsets so this is welcome news. I would imagine that they will be backward compatible with the older versions but if all HDMI chipsets in the chain are not the same, then the communication falls back to common denominator which could cause issues? Hopefully the device mfrs will start to incorporate the new chipsets soon.


You are right on the money. Unfortunately what it came down to is that some hardware would recognize the HT7180 chipset as an HDMI 1.4/HDCP1.4 device, though it's supposed to be completely transparent. 

This is what is causing legacy "18Gbps" rated cables to fail. This isn't an issue just the older redmere chipset but rather all legacy chipsets designed before HDMI 2.0/2.1. 

Just to put into context, the HT8181 was originally supposed to launch at Q1 2015, but HDMI spec changes and finicky consumer hardware kept pushing the date back. HDCP and HDMI 2.0 are so sensitive that noise was introduced into the signal because a perfect signal would trigger content protections.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that's what I was hearing from other sources but was reluctant to post anything because I just wasn't sure how accurate that was. Thanks for confirming that. Can't wait to see what happens with HDMI 2.1


----------



## brianlvi3

Hey again guys,

Had everything (i thought) working good. My set up is Marantz 7702mk11 as my processor. I have a 55 inch Sony LCD and a Epson 5040UBE, please don't mention the wireless.

I have XBOX, PS4, Optimum cable box and Oppo 203 bluray. Originally had HDMI output 1 to my Sony 55 inch with a 9 foot Audioquest cable. HDMI output 2 to my Epson with a 30 foot Celerity cable. This did NOT work. I kept losing picture and sound while watching movies off of the Oppo. I decided to run the Celerity directly out of Oppo right to the PJ. Works great. I then ran a BJC series 1 (fire hose) from my HDMI output 2 to the 1.4 input on the Epson for all my other viewing. Seemed to work good. 

I ran it about 15 mins as I don't watch much TV, just blurays and the Celerity out of the Oppo into the Epson is working great. Watched about 100 hours so far on the Epson without a problem.

A few weeks ago, decided to watch Game of Thrones. After 20 mins, picture and sound started dropping out. I don't get it. It is NOT 4K, just a cable box. Being a wits end yet again. I ordered the Ruipro 10 meter cable. Installed it today, picture and sound dropping out, same as the BJC series 1. I don't get it. This is my 3rd upgrade in less than 5 years. This is my 3rd Marantz prepro. Not sure why I stay with Marantz. This is killing me again. I spent along time before I iwas able to get to watch movies off my Oppo 203. It seems nothing more than 10 feet will pass out of my Marantz.

Why would it not pass a signal out of my cable box???

The Marantz and Epson are less than a year old. HELP.

Thanks. I don't know what else to try at this point.


----------



## T-Bone

brianlvi3 said:


> Hey again guys,
> 
> Had everything (i thought) working good. My set up is Marantz 7702mk11 as my processor. I have a 55 inch Sony LCD and a Epson 5040UBE, please don't mention the wireless.
> 
> I have XBOX, PS4, Optimum cable box and Oppo 203 bluray. Originally had HDMI output 1 to my Sony 55 inch with a 9 foot Audioquest cable. HDMI output 2 to my Epson with a 30 foot Celerity cable. This did NOT work. I kept losing picture and sound while watching movies off of the Oppo. I decided to run the Celerity directly out of Oppo right to the PJ. Works great. I then ran a BJC series 1 (fire hose) from my HDMI output 2 to the 1.4 input on the Epson for all my other viewing. Seemed to work good.
> 
> I ran it about 15 mins as I don't watch much TV, just blurays and the Celerity out of the Oppo into the Epson is working great. Watched about 100 hours so far on the Epson without a problem.
> 
> A few weeks ago, decided to watch Game of Thrones. After 20 mins, picture and sound started dropping out. I don't get it. It is NOT 4K, just a cable box. Being a wits end yet again. I ordered the Ruipro 10 meter cable. Installed it today, picture and sound dropping out, same as the BJC series 1. I don't get it. This is my 3rd upgrade in less than 5 years. This is my 3rd Marantz prepro. Not sure why I stay with Marantz. This is killing me again. I spent along time before I iwas able to get to watch movies off my Oppo 203. It seems nothing more than 10 feet will pass out of my Marantz.
> 
> Why would it not pass a signal out of my cable box???
> 
> The Marantz and Epson are less than a year old. HELP.
> 
> Thanks. I don't know what else to try at this point.


Since I was not at your house watching you, I think I would do a couple of things to troubleshoot your problem.

1. You need to verify which components work with your hdmi cable connected directly to either your TV or your projector. Test 4K and 1080P. 

2. Once you finish step 1, you now have a baseline for comparison. 

3. Repeat step 1, but this time route the signal through your receiver.

4. If you finish step 3, you'll know what works through your receiver.

5. If a component does not work, just chalk it up to an HDMI handshake compatibility issue. Maybe the issue can be fixed with a firmware update, or something like that.

For reference, I have a Sewell passive 40 ft cable rated at 18 gigabit per second. Cost 40 bucks. It failed a test in this thread, but a YouTube video showed the cable passing a similar test. And it seemed to pass for me. Works fine with [email protected] content from my Xbox One S. 

-T


----------



## spaceghostroce

ARROW-AV said:


> *TEST REPORTS | LONG HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*​
> 
> HDMI version 2.0b, which is the currently industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support.
> 
> But a great many medium to long length HDMI cables that claim to fully support this in reality do not.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to provide a resource database, including lookup tables, with the results of comprehensive evaluation and testing of HDMI cables to reveal which cables will actually reliably and consistently pass 18 Gbps bandwidth video signals and hence properly support HDMI 2.0b video content. Where you can rest assured that these will every time fully and properly support HDMI 2.0b / 18 Gbps video signals; and hence if you use these cables you can kiss goodbye to all of your HDMI headaches and problems, for good.
> 
> *Please find attached to this post:
> 
> (1) HDMI Cables Performance Evaluation & Testing Report # 1; this relates to 50ft/15m+ length cables; and is self-explanatory.
> 
> (2) HDMI Cables Performance Evaluation & Testing Report # 2; this relates to the longer length Monoprice cables product codes 21568-21570 (75ft/23m, 100ft/30m, and 150ft/45m).
> 
> (N.B. Report #3 will focus on HDMI cables with lengths 20ft/6m - 30ft/9m; which will be added here as and when it is completed.)*
> 
> Enjoy!
> *
> ADDITIONAL NOTES: *
> (1) Out of the 35 cables tested only 2 require external power, namely the CELERITY TEK and CHROMIS cables;
> (2) MONOPRICE cables 21566-21570 do not support ARC. But they do support Ethernet over HDMI.
> (3) RUIPRO cables do support ARC.


*4k 60hz HDMI Long Run - Capabilities Issues* *Issue:*
Trying to run source -> 35' active HDMI -> 4k receiver -> 35' active HDMI -> 4k TV - This current setup isn't working at all. 


*Equipment:*
Receiver - Denon AVR-X3300
Sources - PS4 Pro / Nvidia 1080ti
HDMI cable - Monoprice Luxe 35' active HDMI
TV - Samsung UN65KS8000


*In depth explanation of issues and attempts for solution:*
My overall goal is to have a 4k capable office and centralize the networking/av equipment in my server room. I wanted to utilize a closet space for the 4k Blu-ray player and the PS4 pro and other components i would directly interface with while the receiver would be controlled via my Logitech Harmony Hub. I purchased the 35' active HDMI cables from monoprice as they stated they were capable to handle what my objective was... they were not. Hooking the PS4 Pro up to the receiver using the 35' HDMI and the receiver output to the TV as the zone 1 source the TV showed it recognized something was on the ARC input but nothing showed. I tried to then remove the receiver from the loop and run just the source PS4 Pro directly to the TV using the 35' HDMI cable, still no joy. I then attempted to run a 35' cable from my 1080ti to the TV directly and it did detect it on the TV but the image was very distorted. Looking online I then bought an Monoprice Blackbird HDMI repeater... with that in the loop at any point nothing worked. I have thought of potentially running 4k 60hz 4:4:4 capable HDMI over Ethernet as the solution but am unsure of the success. So here I am stressed and out of options that I can rely on. Please help!! If you need any additional information please let me know and I will answer. Thank you for any assistance provided.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The ethernet channel on current HDMI cables is a non-issue because there are no consumer devices that take advantage of that useless (so far) HDMI spec. Rumor has it that once HDMI 2.1 is released, the ethernet channel may be used for eARC but that is only a best guess at this point in time. You might want to consider solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable) but you will still run into distance and HDMI chipset problems if you actively terminate the connector ends (HDBT for example).


----------



## Joe Fernand

brianlvi3 - as per T-Bones' suggestion you need a more methodical test regime with and without the AVP in the system.

I would also ensure that CEC is disabled on all devices - I would test initially with a single Sink (Display) connected to the AVP and test both Outputs of the AVP.

Check the settings on the HDMI Input in the TV to ensure all of the Features and Formats you wish to support are covered.

spaceghostroce - Fibre or Hybrid Fibre is the way to go, UHD over LAN would require some compression at present.

Have you run a test with shorter (less than 8m) High Speed cables to ensure the system will work as required?

That said what you are aiming to achieve ought to be relatively straightforward with a Hybrid Fibre HDMI (Ruipro being our preferred solution).

Joe


----------



## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> brianlvi3 - as per T-Bones' suggestion you need a more methodical test regime with and without the AVP in the system.
> 
> I would also ensure that CEC is disabled on all devices - I would test initially with a single Sink (Display) connected to the AVP and test both Outputs of the AVP.
> 
> Check the settings on the HDMI Input in the TV to ensure all of the Features and Formats you wish to support are covered.
> 
> spaceghostroce - Fibre or Hybrid Fibre is the way to go, UHD over LAN would require some compression at present.
> 
> Have you run a test with shorter (less than 8m) High Speed cables to ensure the system will work as required?
> 
> That said what you are aiming to achieve ought to be relatively straightforward with a Hybrid Fibre HDMI (Ruipro being our preferred solution).
> 
> Joe


Everything works from Marantz (9 foot Audioquest cable) to the Sony TV. 

Nothing will work from the Marantz to the Epson (10 meter cable, no matter which brand) Celerity, Ruipro, BJC series 1 all did not work. They will all work if I don't run out of the Marantz.

I know the Marantz is causing the problem, just not sure why.

From the Oppo directly to the Epson, works perfect with the Celerty.


----------



## Joe Fernand

What happens if you replace the Audioquest cable with the Ruipro to the Sony TV?

Joe


----------



## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> What happens if you replace the Audioquest cable with the Ruipro to the Sony TV?
> 
> Joe


I will give that a try when I get home. 

I have had nothing but problems with the Marantz processors not being able to pass a signal at 30 feet. My last Marantz did the same thing. I purchased the mk11 to be able to pass a 4K signal. I will not.

Anything run directly out of source, PS4, Xbox, cable box etc to the Epson using the Celerity cable will work just fine. Anything out of the Marantz to the PJ using a 30 foot cable will have a problem.

Oppo 203 with Celerity 30 footer on it to the Epson. Flawless.

Thanks.


----------



## kwindrem

GooMan2 said:


> I got an email ad from monoprice about some new cables:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> They claim [email protected] 4:4:4, 50ft for $65. No reviews yet, but could be a good option if it works.


I just bought a 35' version of this DynamicView active HDMI cable and can confirm that it works at 4k, 60 Hz, 4:4:4 8-bit/channel (18 Gb/s). The only 4k source I have is Planet Earth 2 from Dish Network via a Hopper 3. I could not test other formats (4:2:0, more than 8 bits/channel, lower frame rates).

The DynamicView cable replaced my 11 year old 35' Blue Jeans Cables Series-2 cable. Surprisingly, it also worked at the above mentioned 4k rate! The Series-2 cable is very large and stiff, and uses silver-plated 24 AWG pairs.

I had picture breakup and random black screens with my previous setup, but it turned out to be the result of 6' cables between my devices and A/V receiver, not the long run to my TV.

The 6' runs were the same vintage BJC but a different series. Replacing these with Monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" solved the picture breakup issue even before I replaced the Series-2!

System:
Dish Network Hopper 3
Apple TV 4
Opportunity BDP-83
Pioneer Elite SC-LX701
LG OLED65B6p


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'I have had nothing but problems with the Marantz processors' _- I have arranged to borrow an AVP-8802a on Sunday to have a play with the Ruipro cables.

Joe


----------



## StephenBishop

Joe Fernand said:


> _'I have had nothing but problems with the Marantz processors' _- I have arranged to borrow an AVP-8802a on Sunday to have a play with the Ruipro cables.
> 
> Joe


 Unfortunately I too have problems with the Marantz 8802A in between my Panny 900B and my Sony ES 5000 projector using the 15 m Celerity to connect the Marantz to the projector. No problem connecting the Panny direct to the projector using the same 15m Celerity. So looking forward to the reports from your tests with the Ruipro!


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## Joe Fernand

AVP-8802a connected to my LG EF950 OLED Display - Sources I have include SKY Q, DMP-UB900, PS4 Pro, XB1S, ATV4.

Installed Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI from AVP to Display at 10m and 50m.

No problems so far - fast glitch free start up, fast source switching, immediate enable/disable of HDR, 2160p at 60Hz, 50Hz and 24p.

Have been running each Source for an hour or more with no glitches.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EZYHD

Just joined the this fantastic forum (and see a few Aussies here too), a forum that I find so interesting and informative about HDMi Fiber (we spell it Fibre) Optic cables, a rather new item here in Australia, the testing in particular is really excellent and I look forward to reading more reviews from users.


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## ScottieBoysName

I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread. We're currently building a home (projected completion is April 2018), and I'm having to figure out where the AV Rack needs to go. Where I want it, would basically force me to run a 35 to 40 foot HDMI cable to the main display. 

I was beginning to think I'd have to relocate everything to the front of the room after reading all of the doom and gloom about pushing 4K over HDMI at that length. It seems like people are doing ok in here at greater lengths than that. Are we saying the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre is the best cable for HDMI 2.0b 4K at 60hz at 50 feet?


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## drhankz

ScottieBoysName said:


> I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread. We're currently building a home (projected completion is April 2018), and I'm having to figure out where the AV Rack needs to go. Where I want it, would basically force me to run a 35 to 40 foot HDMI cable to the main display.
> 
> I was beginning to think I'd have to relocate everything to the front of the room after reading all of the doom and gloom about pushing 4K over HDMI at that length. It seems like people are doing ok in here at greater lengths than that. Are we saying the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre is the best cable for HDMI 2.0b 4K at 60hz at 50 feet?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I would *NEVER* recommend any equipment in the front of the room.

With a Projector you want to watch the screen and not the 300 red,
blue, or green lights.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

drhankz said:


> I would *NEVER* recommend any equipment in the front of the room.
> 
> 
> 
> With a Projector you want to watch the screen and not the 300 red,
> 
> blue, or green lights.




Agreed, but I'm actually not going to be running a projector. I'll be running an old Panny Plasma from 2012. 

Projector will be later. Much later. I mostly play video games and I haven't heard of any projector yet, that works well in that arena. My room is small enough based on the seating area that I'll run a 65-75 inch display before I go projector. 

If I was running a projector, then my HDMI run would only be 15 feet or so. 




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## mrtickleuk

ScottieBoysName said:


> Agreed, but I'm actually not going to be running a projector. I'll be running an old Panny Plasma from 2012.





ScottieBoysName said:


> I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread. We're currently building a home (*projected* completion is April 2018),


^^^ that's probably where the misunderstanding came from, and a bit of skim-reading


----------



## ScottieBoysName

mrtickleuk said:


> ^^^ that's probably where the misunderstanding came from, and a bit of skim-reading




No worries! I didn't specify there would be a plasma there anyway, so my mistake. 

Regardless, you're right. Having stuff at the front can be a big "No-No". My issue is getting signal to the plasma if everything is at the back, and getting signal to the subs (in-wall XLR?). 

What's good, is that right now my display won't even produce a 4K image, so I'm really working with future proofing when I do. I'm running conduit for sure. 

This isn't an issue at all if I had a projector, as the run from the back to the projector is under 20 feet. 

The run to the front is 40-50. 


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## Otto Pylot

At 40' - 50' then you might want to just consider fiber (Celerity or Ruipro). Installing in-conduit is the only way to truly "future proof" so you're good there. The fiber may be better for the long term because you shouldn't have any difficulties with 1080p or 4k and possibly 4k HDR. Fiber is a bit expensive so you might want to consider laying it out on the floor first if possible to make sure it meets your needs before carefully fishing it thru the conduit and be mindful of bend radius.


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> At 40' - 50' then you might want to just consider fiber (Celerity or Ruipro). Installing in-conduit is the only way to truly "future proof" so you're good there. The fiber may be better for the long term because you shouldn't have any difficulties with 1080p or 4k and possibly 4k HDR. Fiber is a bit expensive so you might want to consider laying it out on the floor first if possible to make sure it meets your needs before carefully fishing it thru the conduit and be mindful of bend radius.




Yeah, I'm considering the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre, 50 foot. When you say bend radius....are you talking about actually bending the cable? What's the max on that Ruipro?


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Yeah, I'm considering the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre, 50 foot. When you say bend radius....are you talking about actually bending the cable? What's the max on that Ruipro?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Bend radius is the maximum bending degree you can do without damaging the cable or adversely affecting the signal. I don't know what the actual number of degrees it is but a gentle bend should be ok as opposed to a sharp 90 degree angle.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> Bend radius is the maximum bending degree you can do without damaging the cable or adversely affecting the signal. I don't know what the actual number of degrees it is but a gentle bend should be ok as opposed to a sharp 90 degree angle.




Gotcha. That's what I figured. I knew what the BR referred to, but I wasn't sure what was acceptable and what wasn't. 

So, if I picked up that Ruipro cable, would I need a gigabit accelerator with it? Or is that not necessary?


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I can't answer gigabit accelerator question. Maybe Joe can.


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ I can't answer gigabit accelerator question. Maybe Joe can.




Gotcha. Joe, any help?


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## Joe Fernand

No need for any other devices - simply connect in the Ruipro cable and that is it.

Joe


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## ScottieBoysName

Joe Fernand said:


> No need for any other devices - simply connect in the Ruipro cable and that is it.
> 
> Joe




Got it. Thanks!!


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## EZYHD

We received the picture below from Ruipro but not sure what the bend radius is, although we've not had any problems from customers yet since taking on the OZ/NZ Ruipro distributorship 2 months ago.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I'm thinking that the cable is going to be flexible enough that it will easily fit most installations. I just mention bend radius so that the consumer is aware that you really shouldn't force 90 degree sharp bends and keep the bends as smooth as possible. With the higher video standards requiring a stable 18Gbps bandwidth, and eventually 48Gbps it's hard to say how forgiving they will be.


----------



## Keith Murray

GooMan2 said:


> I got an email ad from monoprice about some new cables:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> They claim [email protected] 4:4:4, 50ft for $65. No reviews yet, but could be a good option if it works.


I also bought a 35' version of this cable and it's the most functional I've yet used. I've tried many others from Monoprice including the slim run optical and none worked as well as this new one in my system. For 4k sources, I have a PS4 Pro, Samsung UHD Bluray and Dish Hopper. All to through my Denon AVR-S920W to both my Samsung 4k TV and JVC 4k projector. 4k games and HDR UHD all work well.

It's still not perfect as sometimes the TV won't sync if the projector is plugged in.

But this is the closest I've gotten yet to an actual fully working solution.

Thinking I might need to move up to a fancier AVR.


----------



## gaspimp

Keith Murray said:


> I also bought a 35' version of this cable and it's the most functional I've yet used. I've tried many others from Monoprice including the slim run optical and none worked as well as this new one in my system. For 4k sources, I have a PS4 Pro, Samsung UHD Bluray and Dish Hopper. All to through my Denon AVR-S920W to both my Samsung 4k TV and JVC 4k projector. 4k games and HDR UHD all work well.
> 
> It's still not perfect as sometimes the TV won't sync if the projector is plugged in.
> 
> But this is the closest I've gotten yet to an actual fully working solution.
> 
> Thinking I might need to move up to a fancier AVR.


What was your issue with the Slimrun HDR optical?


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Keith Murray said:


> I also bought a 35' version of this cable and it's the most functional I've yet used. I've tried many others from Monoprice including the slim run optical and none worked as well as this new one in my system. For 4k sources, I have a PS4 Pro, Samsung UHD Bluray and Dish Hopper. All to through my Denon AVR-S920W to both my Samsung 4k TV and JVC 4k projector. 4k games and HDR UHD all work well.
> 
> 
> 
> It's still not perfect as sometimes the TV won't sync if the projector is plugged in.
> 
> 
> 
> But this is the closest I've gotten yet to an actual fully working solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking I might need to move up to a fancier AVR.




This cable from MP worked better for you than one from Ruipro?


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## StevenC56

gaspimp said:


> What was your issue with the Slimrun HDR optical?


Especially since that cable was #1 in the tests.


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## Keith Murray

gaspimp said:


> What was your issue with the Slimrun HDR optical?


I had no luck getting a good 4k signal from my PS4 Pro.


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## Keith Murray

ScottieBoysName said:


> This cable from MP worked better for you than one from Ruipro?


I never tried a Ruipro. I tried several different Monoprice cables (Cabernet, Luxe, Slimrun AV). None would consistently sync and hold a signal in my setup.


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## Keith Murray

StevenC56 said:


> Especially since that cable was #1 in the tests.


Well, all I can say is that the tests were not made with my equipment.  YMMV

I've posted a few times about my cable travails. Check my history if you're curious.


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## Joe Fernand

Ruipro - have had great results so far and have solved a few issues for customers who had tried all manner of options.

Ruipro - bend radius, was asked last week about putting around some architrave (see pic below).

Joe


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## kwindrem

Keith Murray said:


> I never tried a Ruipro. I tried several different Monoprice cables (Cabernet, Luxe, Slimrun AV). None would consistently sync and hold a signal in my setup.


The Monoprice cable that worked best in the tests here was the "SlimRun AV HDR Cable". There's another similarly named cable at Monoprice ("SlimRun AV Cable") that was not tested and uses different components. 

The Cabernet and Luxe cables were designed before the HDMI 2.0 spec was finalized and those chip sets do not work reliably with all devices at the 18 Gb/s rates. I suspect the same may be true for the SlimRun (non-HDR) cable.


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## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> Ruipro - have had great results so far and have solved a few issues for customers who had tried all manner of options.
> 
> Ruipro - bend radius, was asked last week about putting around some architrave (see pic below).
> 
> Joe


That was me, and thanks for the pic. That is pretty much how I envisioned bend radius for Ruipro and really any cable. A gentle elbow bend and not a sharp 90 degree angle. Pics are always so much better than words


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## Otto Pylot

kwindrem said:


> The Cabernet and Luxe cables were designed before the HDMI 2.0 spec was finalized and those chip sets do not work reliably with all devices at the 18 Gb/s rates. I suspect the same may be true for the SlimRun (non-HDR) cable.


The new HDMI chipsets are just starting to come into play. Unfortunately there is no way to know for sure which versions you are getting. With HDMI, it's almost as if you have to upgrade your cables as well has the connected hardware to get full compatibility. To say it's a mess is a huge understatement.


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## sirlancelot22

Hello, I've been reading and keeping up with this thread for awhile because like most people here I'm looking for a long span 4k solution in my home. I am having some issues and maybe a few of the gurus here can help me out. 
Some background information:

TV LG OLED C7P 2017 latest firmware
Yamaha RX-1070A latest firmware (set to Mode 1 4k)
PS4 PRO latest firmware

PS4 in family room sending signal to back rack in a bedroom closet Yamaha receiver, approx. 50 feet straight line. Signal coming back to TV from Yamaha to TV. I have speakers mounted in ceiling, etc.

My original installed solution did not work, installers did HDBaseT through ethernet baluns, was unable to send a full 4k signal through PS4 to TV, PS4 Pro would only report 2k HDR support and when I enabled HDMI deep color on my LG TV the picture would go out but sound would still play. I contributed this to a bandwidth problem since I learned the baluns only support 10Gbps. Plan B was to do a HDMI splitter to connect ps4 directly to tv and send audio back to rack. They gave up in 5 minutes because that didn't work.

They finally wanted to attempt my solution which was run a long span optical HDMI cable (mostly thanks to this forum). I ordered 2 Ruipro cables 30m, which is probably a little long for my application but my installer estimated I would need 75 feet (10 foot ceilings, no 90 degree bends, etc). The good news is that it does transfer the full 4k 60hz 4:4:4 RGB signal according to PS4 pro. 

Now the issues I'm having are: initial connection hiccuped a bit - got a gray snowy pixel screen (sound playing fine) until i reset my receiver. Video would drop in and out. I changed input to HDMI 2 on tv. The connection seemed to become stable on his own over time. I played for about 3 hours yesterday and no signal drop outs However, during black screens (loading/saving screens etc) I notice the pixels popping in and out gray (snowy), so i'm thinking there is signal interference or something going on. 

The cables are strung across my floor right now because I want to make sure it works before I install in attic and through the walls. There are many bends and twists in them right now due to so much slack. Could this be the problem? One of my Ruipro cables also seemed defective because the silver connector shield didn't have screws holding it on so it came undone. Thomas from Ruipro has already sent me a replacement I will test out. Great support from this company.

The gray pixels popping in and out on black background (only time I really notice it) also happens when I watch cable TV (cable box is at back rack) so the return cable could also have a problem (also many bends and twists in it at the moment). Yamaha receiver set to direct passthrough/processing seems to make no difference. When I upscale my cable output to 4k and I still see the pixels popping in and out. I haven't really checked to see if a direct passthrough for the 1080p cable signal has them pop up, they are very hard to see unless its a black background.

My questions are the following:
Should I try a shorter cable so less bends/twists occur? I estimate I'm going to have 25-30 feet leftover possibly. According to the tests in this thread the 30m should be able to pass the full signal. I don't want to order new cables and find that they're too short, but I'm also aware that the longer cables are the less stable the signal becomes.

Does the initial hiccup of picture popping in and out sound like a HDCP issue? I do use a universal remote and it turns all my equipment on at the same time. Signal seems to fix itself when I turn something off and back on (usually).

I had planned to buy a UHD Blu-ray in the future, I could go ahead and buy to test, and get that blu ray that's 4k 60hz (Bille Halftime walk i think?) should I go ahead and get this prior to final install?

I do have a computer with a Nvidia 980 TI I could use as a 4k test source (assuming it has HDMI out on the back). 

What do you guys recommend? I had high hopes for the Ruipro but I'm not confident right now about having them installed. I need to make sure it works 100%, no signal dropouts, and no snowy black backgrounds.

Thanks for reading my long post, I hope someone has some suggestions!


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## Postmoderndesign

Thank you canary for going down the UHD whole house mine shaft and coming back with a report confirming that the long spans are still a problem. HDBaseT employing cat 6 or 6a cables with a 10GBPS limitation thus requiring compression and decompression still seems to be problematic. I could always see the compression degradation but I have not seen the latest transmitter-receiver solutions. I cannot say that the latest equipment is now acceptable. Like you I would need a couple 75 foot HDMI cables but here again I am not sure the cables are ready for prime time.

Edison had a DC distance problem and lost out to Tesla's AC power station solution because AC overcame attenuation. I do not know if UHD is a similar electricity problem.

However I appreciate your keeping the sideline cheapskates apprised on your experiments.


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## Otto Pylot

@sirlancelot22 - it's always best to use the shortest length of cable that is reasonable for your setup. Multiple bends, if they are gentle like the pic that Joe posted above, should not be a problem. I'm assuming that you will be using conduit for at least your in-wall installs. That makes it easier to run your cables and you can keep the bend radius to a minimum. HDBT is, or was, a good choice to maintain signal integrity over long distances but the HDMI chipsets have become unreliable for the higher video standards like 4k HDR. The newer chipsets are becoming available but it is going to be quite awhile before the newest chipsets are fully integrated into active cables, active extenders, and the devices they are connected to. The HDMI chipsets will probably have to be same throughout your chain, otherwise the signal will "drop" to the least common denominator (HDMI 2.0b).


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## Joe Fernand

'Grey Pixels' - any chance you can grab a pic of the pixels popping, that could easily be a brightness issue on the OLED. I doubt it is interference. 

'Loading Screens' - worth checking if the Source is changing Output format when it's in its menus, many devices go to 60Hz even if the Content you are viewing is 24Hz (or 50Hz here in the UK).

'Snow' - is pretty indicative of the various devices in your system initiating a new HDCP session, on some systems it will be pretty quick others it can be a fairly long pause until the handshake is confirmed and you get a clean image.

AVR - ideally try it on bypass and upscale mode, often it is best to leave the signal alone and let the Display upscale, that gives you more control of the settings on the Display to better suit any particular Source device.

Joe


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## veger69

I just purchased a monoprice 25' certified cable for hdr DV and 4k uses. I'm going to use in wall so no way to replace it once work is done. Has anybody used this cable to successfully supply 4k hdr signals from anthem AVM60 to an OLED65G6P? If there is problems with that cable could you suggest a cable that would work thanks


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## Otto Pylot

veger69 said:


> I just purchased a monoprice 25' certified cable for hdr DV and 4k uses. I'm going to use in wall so no way to replace it once work is done. Has anybody used this cable to successfully supply 4k hdr signals from anthem AVM60 to an OLED65G6P? If there is problems with that cable could you suggest a cable that would work thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Install your cable in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. You will be replacing the cable at some time in the future so installing it in a conduit will make that process so much easier. Using a conduit is basically the only way to "future proof" your cabling needs. 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 20' is dicey at best. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't because there are other factors involved than just the cable itself. Most folks are having the best luck with a fiber optic cable for 4k HDR at lengths longer than 20'.


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## Joe Fernand

+1 

Never install an HDMI cable with no option to replace it - you can pretty much guarantee it will fail or be damaged.

Joe


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## veger69

So how about this "SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, [email protected], YUV4:4:4, 30ft"


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## veger69

Otto Pylot said:


> Install your cable in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. You will be replacing the cable at some time in the future so installing it in a conduit will make that process so much easier. Using a conduit is basically the only way to "future proof" your cabling needs. 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 20' is dicey at best. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't because there are other factors involved than just the cable itself. Most folks are having the best luck with a fiber optic cable for 4k HDR at lengths longer than 20'.




What works for conduit pvc pipe?


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ you can use pvc pipe but a lot of us use a flexible conduit. It's just easier to work with and bend around corners.

SlimRun is a good cable, for 1080p. It does work for 4k HDR but like anything else, I'd lay it out on the floor before in-wall installation and thoroughly test it. If you do install conduit, I would also lay in solid core CAT-6 cable (not-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) for future connections. A lot of folks do that and then terminate with HDBT. However, until the newer HDMI chipsets are available, even HDBT is dicey for 4k HDR. But at least the cable is in the conduit for future use. Or, you can do what I've done and use the solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection (using punchdown keystone jacks) and hardwire your HTS if you don't want to rely on WiFi.

I would also install a pull-string in your conduit for future cable pulls.


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## veger69

Can you suggest a flexible conduit 


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ FlexCon? I don't remember what I used. Google is your friend.


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## StevenC56

There are 4 different Monoprice cables listed as "SlimRun". This is the only one that passed all tests and was rated #1 in the HDMI cable test article referenced in this thread.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21567


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## Otto Pylot

StevenC56 said:


> There are 4 different Monoprice cables listed as "SlimRun". This is the only one that passed all tests and was rated #1 in the HDMI cable test article referenced in this thread.
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21567



The ARROW-AV tests were well received and have been an excellent guide to what's out there that seem to work. Just keep in mind that the report is only a guide and not to be used as a 100% guarantee that the cables listed will work in a given setup. There are lots of other factors that go into a successful cable run besides just the cable. That being said, it is a great place to start your cable search and has been extremely helpful.


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## Postmoderndesign

veger69 said:


> Can you suggest a flexible conduit
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Here is the conduit I used in 2016. Try Amazon for a current source. Carlon SCJ4X1C-50 RESI GUARD CONDUIT 2-Inch 50 feet
Sold by: ELVESsupply
$90.76


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## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> The ARROW-AV tests were well received and have been an excellent guide to what's out there that seem to work. Just keep in mind that the report is only a guide and not to be used as a 100% guarantee that the cables listed will work in a given setup. There are lots of other factors that go into a successful cable run besides just the cable. That being said, it is a great place to start your cable search and has been extremely helpful.


Just curious, has there been any reports of the two recommended cables NOT working properly? So far, it's a 100% success rate regarding all users that we know of
.


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## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> Just curious, has there been any reports of the two recommended cables NOT working properly? So far, it's a 100% success rate regarding all users that we know of
> .


I thought I read that someone didn't get the results they were expecting based on the recommendations. It was more than likely their setup and not necessarily the cable but that's hard to prove either way. That still doesn't take away from the fact that the list is an excellent resource and should save some time for those on their quest for the perfect cable.


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## sirlancelot22

Joe Fernand said:


> 'Grey Pixels' - any chance you can grab a pic of the pixels popping, that could easily be a brightness issue on the OLED. I doubt it is interference.
> 
> 'Loading Screens' - worth checking if the Source is changing Output format when it's in its menus, many devices go to 60Hz even if the Content you are viewing is 24Hz (or 50Hz here in the UK).
> 
> 'Snow' - is pretty indicative of the various devices in your system initiating a new HDCP session, on some systems it will be pretty quick others it can be a fairly long pause until the handshake is confirmed and you get a clean image.
> 
> AVR - ideally try it on bypass and upscale mode, often it is best to leave the signal alone and let the Display upscale, that gives you more control of the settings on the Display to better suit any particular Source device.
> 
> Joe


Thanks for the reply Joe.
The grey pixels I never noticed when I had the PS4 directly connected to TV through the HDMI cable it came with. I'll try to snap a photo of it when I'm home later.

When I try to see my input information on my TV (LG OLED C7P) it only reports the resolution and what port its on, is there an option somewhere I am missing? Can I set the display to upscale all content? It doesn't upscale my cable TV input unless I set the AVR to only output 4k.

I believe you are correct on the "snow" because it behaves exactly as you describe.

Ruipro support seems to think the AVR could be causing a problem for the number of devices attached to it. My AVR has 8 HDMI inputs and only 4 are currently being used. They want me to unplug everything except the two I'm testing because they think it might be a power issue since the Ruipro cables get power from the device they're plugged into. I doubt this is a problem since it can handle up to 8 inputs and only 4 are plugged in. I'll test out like they said but I doubt that's the problem.


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## sirlancelot22

I made a video (.mp4) of the pixels popping in and out and attached it as a zip file.

Some troubleshooting I'll do tonight is connect source directly to TV to see if they go away. The other option will be to eliminate as many bends in the Ruipro Cables as I possibly can and see if it goes away.


----------



## Noah Moore

Keith Murray said:


> I never tried a Ruipro. I tried several different Monoprice cables (Cabernet, Luxe, Slimrun AV). None would consistently sync and hold a signal in my setup.


I tried one from DTECH, it works quite well. The one I got is HF202 model


----------



## rmerlano

Noah Moore said:


> I tried one from DTECH, it works quite well. The one I got is HF202 model


Length?


----------



## Noah Moore

rmerlano said:


> Length?


It's 50ft


----------



## BrianNLS

sirlancelot22 said:


> I made a video (.mp4) of the pixels popping in and out and attached it as a zip file.
> 
> Some troubleshooting I'll do tonight is connect source directly to TV to see if they go away. The other option will be to eliminate as many bends in the Ruipro Cables as I possibly can and see if it goes away.


I had this exact symptom shown on your zipped file when playing 4K discs from my Samsung UBD-K8500 through my Yamaha RX-A3060 AVR to my LG 75UH8500 TV... but only occasionally. 

After some guidance here on AVSforum, I was able to isolate and fix the problem: my 2m HDMI cable from the K8500 to the RX-A3060 was not certified - replaced it with one that is, symptom is gone and, I assume, problem solved.

Of course, a 2m cable is not a long run like yours. But, you might find my my experience interesting as we both have recent LG TVs fed through recent Yamaha AVRs. 

I believe you are correct in looking at your HDMI cables as the most likely source of these grey pixels.


----------



## sirlancelot22

BrianNLS said:


> I had this exact symptom shown on your zipped file when playing 4K discs from my Samsung UBD-K8500 through my Yamaha RX-A3060 AVR to my LG 75UH8500 TV... but only occasionally.
> 
> After some guidance here on AVSforum, I was able to isolate and fix the problem: my 2m HDMI cable from the K8500 to the RX-A3060 was not certified - replaced it with one that is, symptom is gone and, I assume, problem solved.
> 
> Of course, a 2m cable is not a long run like yours. But, you might find my my experience interesting as we both have recent LG TVs fed through recent Yamaha AVRs.
> 
> I believe you are correct in looking at your HDMI cables as the most likely source of these grey pixels.


Thank you for the reply. I've isolated the issue to the Yamaha receiver. When I use the cables directly (100 foot) no gray sparkles appear. They only start appearing if anything passes through the receiver. I've been in touch with Yamaha and they seem to want to replace the receiver. I think the cables are just incompatible with the receiver.

I've only tried Ruipro Cables at this time but I'm thinking of picking up a monoprice to see if issue resolves itself.


----------



## Aurylian

Anyone try the FIBBR cables? At least they seem to be in stock, but are $$$. Not sure if they are a me too cable or if there is some innovation there.


----------



## WildBoar

Will the Ruipro support eARC?


----------



## TohaLA

I'm running into ARC issue with a brand new LG OLED 65B7A and Ruipro 20ft cable (purchased from Amazon a few days ago) connecting to Denon X6200W. ARC worked on the first day with no issues, and yesterday all of a sudden I get no audio from TV build-in apps (Netflix, Amazon etc). Swap Ruipro to Monoprice "premium certified" 15ft HDMI cable and I get ARC audio back instantly. Is Ruipro finicky about ARC? If so, I may have to return it and get copper based cable instead. Was really hoping to be all set with running fiber cable for a while to avoid issues with longer run copper cables, but ARC is a must for me to get Atmos from LG TV to my receiver... Any ideas guys?


----------



## Otto Pylot

WildBoar said:


> Will the Ruipro support eARC?


Possibly, if your HDMI source and sink have the current HDMI chipsets, which is doubtful at this point in time.

Keep in mind it's not all the cable. The cable is just a conduit. The HDMI chipsets are the driving factors.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TohaLA said:


> I'm running into ARC issue with a brand new LG OLED 65B7A and Ruipro 20ft cable (purchased from Amazon a few days ago) connecting to Denon X6200W. ARC worked on the first day with no issues, and yesterday all of a sudden I get no audio from TV build-in apps (Netflix, Amazon etc). Swap Ruipro to Monoprice "premium certified" 15ft HDMI cable and I get ARC audio back instantly. Is Ruipro finicky about ARC? If so, I may have to return it and get copper based cable instead. Was really hoping to be all set with running fiber cable for a while to avoid issues with longer run copper cables, but ARC is a must for me to get Atmos from LG TV to my receiver... Any ideas guys?


ARC/CEC is a nice idea but is still poorly implemented across all the mfrs. It may not be the cable at all. Using the Ruipro for a 20' run is a bit of an overkill. You need to carefully read what the cable specs are. ARC doesn't always work with fiber at this point in time or even with some active HDMI cables. 

You might want to consider using an optical cable from the tv to your avr for audio from your smart apps and just running the rest of your devices thru the avr. The only advantage of optical over ARC is the elimination of an extra cable. Both offer 5.1 at best.


----------



## TohaLA

Otto Pylot said:


> ARC/CEC is a nice idea but is still poorly implemented across all the mfrs. It may not be the cable at all. Using the Ruipro for a 20' run is a bit of an overkill. You need to carefully read what the cable specs are. ARC doesn't always work with fiber at this point in time or even with some active HDMI cables.
> 
> You might want to consider using an optical cable from the tv to your avr for audio from your smart apps and just running the rest of your devices thru the avr. The only advantage of optical over ARC is the elimination of an extra cable. Both offer 5.1 at best.


Unfortunately I do need ARC in order to get DD+ with Atmos (I own 2017 LG OLED, which is as far as I know the only device currently on the market that can get both Dolby Vision and Atmos together from Netflix and Vudu apps - and it needs ARC to stream it back to my AVR...


----------



## Otto Pylot

TohaLA said:


> Unfortunately I do need ARC in order to get DD+ with Atmos (I own 2017 LG OLED, which is as far as I know the only device currently on the market that can get both Dolby Vision and Atmos together from Netflix and Vudu apps - and it needs ARC to stream it back to my AVR...


That's unfortunate. HDMI 2.1 will allow for eARC, and hopefully Ruipro will be able to incorporate that into their cables, but both source and sink will have to have the matching HDMI 2.1 chipsets to allow for it. Sounds like you will be stuck with


----------



## Pip

I just bought and tested two "BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard)" from Amazon. Very inexpensive.

From Apple TV through Denon 4300 to JVC RS500:

The 35 ft cable passes 4k60 HDR 4:2:0 10 bit. The 50 ft will only pass 4K60 SDR 4:2:0 8 bit. 

YMMV

Unfortunately I need 38 feet, so I ordered a 50ft DTech fiber cable. I'll report back. 

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ HDMI cables with ethernet means absolutely nothing because there aren't any consumer devices and/or mfrs who embraced that HDMI spec. It sounds good though from a marketing standpoint. HDMI 2.1 may allow the use of the ethernet channel for eARC but that is far from certain at this point in time. CL3 rating is just a fire rating for in-wall use and has nothing to do with performance. Fiber would be your best bet with Celerity or Ruipro being the ones that most people are having the best luck with for lengths longer than about 20'. "Supports" doesn't mean certified to meet those specs at that length.


----------



## WereWolf84

I have old version HDMI 1.2 cable 30ft from my receiver to JVC RS400, using a 1080p media player to play 1080p movies only at this moment, the JVC projector will upscale to faux 4K resolution, the screen frequently shows "no input" or without image (black blank image) but with audio going on, sometimes the image will back to normal quite quick sometimes it took long time, is this signal issue due to low speed older version HDMI cable? I have feeling & some members told that if I replace my HDMI cable would solve this issue, so would this below cable (25ft) 100% solve my issue? anyone using this with great success? this cable is so much cheaper than another model SlimRun AV HDR fiber cable which is not certified & tested

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Otto Pylot

WereWolf84 said:


> I have old version HDMI 1.2 cable 30ft from my receiver to JVC RS400, using a 1080p media player to play 1080p movies only at this moment, the JVC projector will upscale to faux 4K resolution, the screen frequently shows "no input" or without image (black blank image) but with audio going on, sometimes the image will back to normal quite quick sometimes it took long time, is this signal issue due to low speed older version HDMI cable? I have feeling & some members told that if I replace my HDMI cable would solve this issue, so would this below cable (25ft) 100% solve my issue? anyone using this with great success? this cable is so much cheaper than another model SlimRun AV HDR fiber cable which is not certified & tested
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2


If all you're gonna push now, and in the future, is 1080p, and your run is under 25', then any passive High Speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr/dealer (Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge, etc) should work just fine. The cable you link to is a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable, which means it is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) so that should work ok for 1080p. Keep in mind that the certification is not a 100% guarantee because other factors come into play (HDMI chipsets used on your source/sink), how the cable is installed (bend radius, strain on the input), etc. The reliability doesn't magically drop off if you go longer than 25' but that's not to say you may not have issues. Keep the run as a single cable from source to sink without any interruptions and you should be ok.


----------



## WereWolf84

Otto Pylot said:


> If all you're gonna push now, and in the future, is 1080p, and your run is under 25', then any passive High Speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr/dealer (Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge, etc) should work just fine. The cable you link to is a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable, which means it is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) so that should work ok for 1080p. Keep in mind that the certification is not a 100% guarantee because other factors come into play (HDMI chipsets used on your source/sink), how the cable is installed (bend radius, strain on the input), etc. The reliability doesn't magically drop off if you go longer than 25' but that's not to say you may not have issues. Keep the run as a single cable from source to sink without any interruptions and you should be ok.


Thanks, I'm planning to buy Oppo 203 in future


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ HDMI cables with ethernet means absolutely nothing because there aren't any consumer devices and/or mfrs who embraced that HDMI spec. It sounds good though from a marketing standpoint. HDMI 2.1 may allow the use of the ethernet channel for eARC but that is far from certain at this point in time. CL3 rating is just a fire rating for in-wall use and has nothing to do with performance. Fiber would be your best bet with Celerity or Ruipro being the ones that most people are having the best luck with for lengths longer than about 20'. "Supports" doesn't mean certified to meet those specs at that length.


Indeed many terms you quote are marketing claims. I never attached any meaning to them. Hence the "YMMV". As noted, the 50ft cable fails to live up to all it's claims, so back it goes to Amazon.

For the benefit of those who may not want to spend (or don't have the bucks) for fiber, I'm merely reporting what these two cables pass with my specific components. BTW I also have a 25ft. Blue Jeans Tartan cable (AWG 24) which also passes 4K/60 HDR 10 bit. That's a $25 cable that may work for many people.

I'll report on the 50ft DTech fiber when I test that. 

Pip


----------



## pankov

Pip,
what's the price for this DTech fiber cable?
Have you tried this one
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
It might a lot cheaper and still fulfill the task.


----------



## Pip

Pankov:

Thanks for the tip. That is much cheaper. Wish I had found this on the Monoprice site. I love Monoprice, but for a company which specializes in cables, their website makes it extremely difficult to find what you need. 

Thanks, 

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

pankov said:


> Pip,
> what's the price for this DTech fiber cable?
> Have you tried this one
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> It might a lot cheaper and still fulfill the task.


The link is to an Active High Speed HDMI cable. No mention of certification or if the HDMI chipsets are current. It may work just be mindful of bend radius.


----------



## pankov

Otto Pylot said:


> The link is to an Active High Speed HDMI cable. No mention of certification or if the HDMI chipsets are current. It may work just be mindful of bend radius.


You are correct that it doesn't mention certification and we all know that this is kind of a grey area but at least it uses the latest chipset from Spectra7 (formerly known as Redmere) - the HT8181. This hopefully greatly increases the probability of it working for 18Gbps signals and lengths up to 50ft.

And it might be available on Amazon ... so I'm hoping someone can verify if it works at these lengths. ... hopefully with a LG 2017 OLED TV ... so I can import one to Bulgaria without having to worry how to return it to the US.


----------



## Pip

Thanks.

I'll try this only if my DTech fiber fails. If that one works, I'll quit while I'm ahead.

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

pankov said:


> You are correct that it doesn't mention certification and we all know that this is kind of a grey area but at least it uses the latest chipset from Spectra7 (formerly known as Redmere) - the HT8181. This hopefully greatly increases the probability of it working for 18Gbps signals and lengths up to 50ft.
> 
> And it might be available on Amazon ... so I'm hoping someone can verify if it works at these lengths. ... hopefully with a LG 2017 OLED TV ... so I can import one to Bulgaria without having to worry how to return it to the US.


That's good that is supposedly has the HT8181 chipset. Any extra help for lengths over 25' is good news.


----------



## Pip

My DTech 50ft. fiber cable passes 4K60 HDR 10 bit at 4:2:0. It will not pass 4:2:2. Do I need 4:2:2? Should I keep searching for a cable that will pass it?

Thanks,

Pip


----------



## kwindrem

Otto Pylot said:


> The link is to an Active High Speed HDMI cable. No mention of certification or if the HDMI chipsets are current. It may work just be mindful of bend radius.


I am running a 35' version of this cable in my system with no issues. It definitely passes 18 Gb/s signals. Others have reported success with this cable on this forum as well.

I agree, Monoprice needs to be a better job of identifying which cables properly support 18 Gb/s signals.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Good to know.


----------



## JC Denton

Anyone care to test the new Belkin ultra-high-speed HDMI 2.1 cable from the apple store?


----------



## mrtickleuk

JC Denton said:


> Anyone care to test the new Belkin ultra-high-speed HDMI 2.1 cable from the apple store?


I don't think it claims to be a HDMI 2.1 cable, does it? I know it says 48Gbps, which _implies _it, but it doesn't actually say it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JC Denton said:


> Anyone care to test the new Belkin ultra-high-speed HDMI 2.1 cable from the apple store?



There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.1 cable. They are either active or passive High Speed HDMI. The claims by Belkin are questionable at best. The HDMI 2.1 hardware specs which were announced in January are not ratified yet. If you purchase the cable now there is no way to test it for full HDMI 2.1 compliance because there aren't any consumer devices yet that have the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them. This is pure marketing trying to get ahead of what's coming for the unsuspecting consumer this holiday shopping season. You're going to start seeing terms like "HDMI 2.1 compatible" very soon which may or may not work in the future. There's also no testing or certification of these cables other than Belkin's claims that they work. They are certainly not ATC certified.


----------



## MillerTimeISU

*HELP - 75ft Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable, [email protected], roughed in-wall backwards*

12 week basement remodel just wrapped up and start to unpack all the new Audio/Video/Receiver in the storage room where all three HMDI cables and all speaker wire were pulled back for the projector, and two TV's. When I was plugging everything in I noticed the electricians screwed up running the HDMI from the Bar TV and Projector TV and the ends that landed in the storage room for the rack have a small flag sticker on them that state "DISPLAY."

Neither cable to the Bar TV or Projector are responding to any signal from the AVR in the rack. All the drywall is complete and hard lid ceilings, all painting is done and flooring is in. What options to I have.....


----------



## Joe Fernand

HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.

Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

@MillerTimeISU - did you install your cabling in-conduit?


----------



## MillerTimeISU

Joe - I ran total of (3) Cat6e to the projector ceiling outlet. Only one is being used as network cable to UHD60 in ceiling.



Joe Fernand said:


> HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.
> 
> Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MillerTimeISU

Conduit path from projector to rack was VE'd out....




Joe Fernand said:


> HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.
> 
> Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Otto Pylot said:


> @MillerTimeISU - did you install your cabling in-conduit?


----------



## Joe Fernand

The CAT6 is likely your saviour - with a few limitations in terms of signal formats you can pass through the required electronics.

The most reliable HDMI over CAT solutions are those based on HDBaseT (HDBT).

Joe


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## JC Denton

Regardless of whether it's really HDMI 2.1 or just marketing hype, if it can outperform HDMI 2.0b by even a couple gbs and also supports all 2.0b features, it'd be worth the price tag if 2M is adequate for your needs. I'd test it out myself, but I lack all the high tech equipment i know some of you guys got.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JC Denton said:


> Regardless of whether it's really HDMI 2.1 or just marketing hype, if it can outperform HDMI 2.0b by even a couple gbs and also supports all 2.0b features, it'd be worth the price tag if 2M is adequate for your needs. I'd test it out myself, but I lack all the high tech equipment i know some of you guys got.


It is marketing hype. Any well made Premium High Speed HDMI cable will perform just as well, especially at 6'. I wouldn't be too concerned about outperforming the HDMI 2.0b spec. A lot depends on whether you have the corresponding HDMI chipsets in your devices.


----------



## Pip

A question for the cable experts:

I've finally added a 4K source, so I had to get a new 40ft cable to my projector in order to pass it. Longest copper cable I could find to work was a 35ft, so I got a 50ft DTech fiber cable which passes 4k HDR 10bit at 4:2:0 no problem *when* I'm watching the projector.

The problem is: I have two displays so I run two HDMI outputs from my AVR. When the projector is off and I use this fiber cable, the AVR will not pass *any* video to the TV. This only occurs with this cable - not with any of 4 copper cables I've tried. This is not an AVR problem as I've tested with one Denon and one Yamaha with exactly the same results. 

If the projector is on everything works perfectly. Even with the projector removed from AC power, if both ends of this fiber cable are attached, no video will pass to the TV. If I unhook either end of the cable, everything works again.

I use no ARC, and no CEC anywhere.

Will I have this problem with all fiber cables, or is it something about this particular cable?

Anyone who can shed some light would be a huge help.

Thanks so much,

Pip


----------



## Joe Fernand

AVR - try moving the Fibre HDMI cable to the 'other' HDMI Output.

AVR - try toggling the AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B, if it has that option.

TV - does it support the same range of signal formats as the Projector and do you have Conversion disabled on the AVR (if it offers it)?

Hybrid Fibre HDMI - I can run multiple Outputs on my Arcam and Yamaha AVR's using the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre cables without the issue you describe.

Joe


----------



## Pip

Joe Fernand said:


> AVR - try moving the Fibre HDMI cable to the 'other' HDMI Output.


I tried that - no change.




> AVR - try toggling the AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B, if it has that option.


This does work, but it's not a solution for my setup. If A+B was used when AVR was last powered off, no video will be output to TV, therefore no way to see AVR menu to change the setting.




> TV - does it support the same range of signal formats as the Projector


TV 1080, projector supports 4K, but I can limit it to 1080. I've tried both ways with the same result. Even with the projector unplugged from AC, the problem persists.





> and do you have Conversion disabled on the AVR (if it offers it)?


Conversion is enabled on the Denon (There's no on screen display without it.) but conversion id disabled on the Yamaha. Same problem either way.




> Hybrid Fibre HDMI - I can run multiple Outputs on my Arcam and Yamaha AVR's using the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre cables without the issue you describe.
> 
> Joe



Do you think it's the non hybrid nature of the cable which is causing this. Is there a reason why I would need some copper to get this to work?

It seems to be an HDMI issue with the fiber cable. With both ends of that cable physically plugged in, and no power to the projector (either in standby or unplugged completely) I get an HDMI error message from my Tivo to the other HDMI output. With the projector on, everything works perfectly.

Thanks so much for your help.

Pip


----------



## Joe Fernand

With the Fibre cable there is conversion of the EDID, HDCP etc going on - whereas with a Hybrid Fibre cable those Communications lines act like a conventional copper cable, there is a marked difference in operation between the two cable types with the 'all Fibre' cables taking much longer to handshake.

Joe


----------



## Pip

Joe Fernand said:


> With the Fibre cable there is conversion of the EDID, HDCP etc going on - whereas with a Hybrid Fibre cable those Communications lines act like a conventional copper cable, there is a marked difference in operation between the two cable types with the 'all Fibre' cables taking much longer to handshake.
> 
> Joe


Thanks Joe.

My DTech cable will never approve the handshake with the projector off no matter how long I wait. Do you know if all the Ruipro fiber cables are hybrid? There is no mention at all of hybrid or copper on their website for optical products.

Is this: https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber-Cable-Support-Subsampling/dp/B01N6HM1RL?th=1 one a hybrid?

Thanks for the advice,

Pip


----------



## Joe Fernand

Ruipro are a Hybrid cable - the cable you link to is the 'old' version (Black Hoods), the current cable has Silver Hoods.

Joe


----------



## mavang

So let me ask the stupid question what happens next year when the new Hdmi spec is finally released and we need 48 Gbps of speed do we start this whole process again ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pip

Joe Fernand said:


> Ruipro are a Hybrid cable - the cable you link to is the 'old' version (Black Hoods), the current cable has Silver Hoods.
> 
> Joe


What's the difference between hoods?

Pip


----------



## Joe Fernand

It’s what’s under the hood 

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Joe Fernand

Once HDMI 2.1 Features start appearing and we have higher bandwidth signals we will all be looking for the New, as yet not available, 48G certified cables - though when you will actually need one will be a different story.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pip

Joe Fernand said:


> It’s what’s under the hood
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's under the hood then? Can I expect the black hoods to work well?

Thanks,

Pip


----------



## pearsco

ruipro said:


> The new designed cable which added shielding for 14/17 copper wire will come out soon for ARC 192Khz issue
> Thank you very much :
> 
> Thomas


Thomas/Anyone else, do you know where I can purchase this "redesigned" cable in the US? Do the ones sold on Amazon have this redesign? I need a 10m cable that can support DD+ for ATMOS over ARC.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.

pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.

Joe


----------



## Operon

mavang said:


> So let me ask the stupid question what happens next year when the new Hdmi spec is finally released and we need 48 Gbps of speed do we start this whole process again ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Keep in mind that much of that bandwidth is attained through a DCS compression scheme delineated in the standard. This will require a new HDMI hardware interface for sure. Nevertheless, it'll be years before we'll need all that bandwidth though I suspect it'll eliminate much of HDMI's dodginess now experienced today and should be more reliable especially for longer cable runs provided the compression scheme actually works. Really, the only compelling reason for HDMI 2.1 is it finally addressing the longstanding deficiency of ARC with HDMI 2.1's implementation of eARC. On the other hand, this is HDMI, so the 2,1 spec for Ethernet is, (drum roll), 100 Mb/s, a data rate that was passé in the 90's. Thankfully, no one has designed an Ethernet-over-HDMI solution but should someone do so they'll be confronted with that woefully dated bandwidth. But as I said this is HDMI. Given the new interface requirements for HMDI 2.1 shouldn't this be an ideal time to finally address the HDMI plug's deficiencies once and for all. Imagine this, a HDMI plug that actually stays plugged in.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ my understanding is that eARC will use the ethernet channel (wire if you will) to accomplish that so there still won't be a true ethernet solution. Besides, it appears that device mfrs will never embrace HDMI ethernet so it may as well be used for something useful.


----------



## Operon

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ my understanding is that eARC will use the ethernet channel (wire if you will) to accomplish that so there still won't be a true ethernet solution. Besides, it appears that device mfrs will never embrace HDMI ethernet so it may as well be used for something useful.


Thanks for the 411. Likewise, a real issue today is that the EDID exchange and HDCP run on the same wires too, in part, explaining all the handshake problems we are experiencing. But, as I said, after all this _is _HDMI. They really must be enamoured with that plug layout. Heck, Apple iPhone jettisoned 3.5mm headphone jacks and routinely changes plug configuration on their devices, even the new Samsung Galaxys have the USB C plug as do the new Google Pixel 2s. Certainly, the A/V industry can tolerate a new standard. Perhaps, some manufacturer out there will have the cajones and put DisplayPort interfaces on their equipment and all this crapola will disappear.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I agree about HDMI. It's really a p.i.t.a but if you look at who the original HDMI group consisted of, I doubt we're going to see a whole scale change for a very long time. Maybe the device mfrs will agree to installing alternate connections but that's not a simple as it sounds because of other hardware and board considerations.


----------



## pearsco

Joe Fernand said:


> Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.
> 
> pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.
> 
> Joe



Were you able to find out more info? I grew a bit impatient and ordered a 10m Ruipro (with silver hoods) from Amazon. I have soo far been unable to pass DD+ over ARC with it, just DD @ 48khz. Rock solid performance otherwise.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Cable stock - no changes to the production cables as yet.

DD+ - is not supported over ARC by very many devices and most manufacturers will tell you it is currently outside of the scope of ARC. There is a Thread here on AVS listing Display's and AVR's which are known to support DD+ via ARC - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...olby-digital-plus-dd-atmos-over-hdmi-arc.html

Joe


----------



## LRS3

Joe Fernand said:


> Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.
> 
> pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.
> 
> Joe


Not to be disagreeable, but this was the email I received when I asked the seller on Amazon USA about the differences between the silver ends and black ends on this cable:

"Thank you for your inquiry.
Actually both the black and silver ends are the same version.
We just changed the ends material and color from several months ago.
The previous is black and the current is silver.
You will get a silver ends cable if you buy it from Amazon although the product photos from Amazon show the color is black."


----------



## Otto Pylot

LRS3 said:


> Not to be disagreeable, but this was the email I received when I asked the seller on Amazon USA about the differences between the silver ends and black ends on this cable:
> 
> "Thank you for your inquiry.
> Actually both the black and silver ends are the same version.
> We just changed the ends material and color from several months ago.
> The previous is black and the current is silver.
> You will get a silver ends cable if you buy it from Amazon although the product photos from Amazon show the color is black."


If the cable is rated to 18Gbps, then it should have some sort of proof of certification or testing, especially if you purchased directly from the mfr. If not, I'd be suspicious of any claims.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Pearsco - I asked someone to try Dolby Digital Plus via ARC in a system with one of our Ruipro cables, none of my Displays support DD+.

LRS3 - go with the info you have and for any others I would simply double check with your supplier if you are considering a cable with the Black hoods.

Joe


----------



## Flygaff

*Celerity HDMI*



Kazz063 said:


> Great report, thanks for all of your hard work, looking forward to the next report.
> 
> I'm happy to see alternatives to the Celerity cables as mine worked for about a month and then stopped working at full bandwidth, not what I had hoped for at that price given that they are $400 here in Australia.



Sorry to hear your Celerity cable stopped working. You are making me nervous now. I have my 50 footer installed in my walls & ceiling for about three months. It has been flawless so far.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Flygaff said:


> Sorry to hear your Celerity cable stopped working. You are making me nervous now. I have my 50 footer installed in my walls & ceiling for about three months. It has been flawless so far.


If you installed your cable in a conduit, as is highly recommended, then replacing/upgrading the cable should be relatively easy. Using a conduit is the only way to really "future proof" your system because cable requirements are, and will be changing.


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> If the cable is rated to 18Gbps, then it should have some sort of proof of certification or testing, especially if you purchased directly from the mfr.


Some cable manufacturers are signed up to HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" marketing scheme, whereby they are allowed to use that term and trademark, and have a hologram and the user can check the certification via an App, etc.



> If not, I'd be suspicious of any claims.


Yes, but please remember that it all depends on the manufacturer's credentials and reputation.

Here in the UK it is more difficult to find cables from manufacturer's signed up to HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" marketing scheme, but there are many cables from good manufacturers who do their own testing to 18Gbps and offer their own guarantees, their own testing programmes, and refunds if you have problems. The only difference is the backing of HDMI.org, a hologram, and an app. As a consumer you have to choose. It's getting easier now, one or two of the HDMI.org "Premium Certified" badged cables are beginning to be sold here. But please understand how ludicrous it would be to expect people in Europe to get cables shipped thousands of miles just to get a nice hologram and a guarantee. If you have a well known, proved and trusted manufacturer who makes very good 18Gbps cables that you know you can rely on, you shouldn't turn your nose up at them just because they haven't got HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" holograms on them!


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> Some cable manufacturers are signed up to HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" marketing scheme, whereby they are allowed to use that term and trademark, and have a hologram and the user can check the certification via an App, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but please remember that it all depends on the manufacturer's credentials and reputation.
> 
> Here in the UK it is more difficult to find cables from manufacturer's signed up to HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" marketing scheme, but there are many cables from good manufacturers who do their own testing to 18Gbps and offer their own guarantees, their own testing programmes, and refunds if you have problems. The only difference is the backing of HDMI.org, a hologram, and an app. As a consumer you have to choose. It's getting easier now, one or two of the HDMI.org "Premium Certified" badged cables are beginning to be sold here. But please understand how ludicrous it would be to expect people in Europe to get cables shipped thousands of miles just to get a nice hologram and a guarantee. If you have a well known, proved and trusted manufacturer who makes very good 18Gbps cables that you know you can rely on, you shouldn't turn your nose up at them just because they haven't got HDMI.org's "Premium Certified" holograms on them!


We're well aware of the Premium High Speed HDMI cable brand, which is certified by an ATC and comes with a QR code for authenticity. However, those are only good up to 25', and are not 100% guaranteed given the variability of consumer devices, setups, and expectations. But for up to 25', it's a great place to start. For lengths greater than that, or the availability of ATC certified cables, then you will need to depend upon the reputation, trust, and reliability of the mfr. I'm not saying to turn ones nose up at a non-ATC certified cable. I'm just saying that whoever you purchase a cable from, carefully read the specs and take note of the terms "certified", "tested", and "complies with.." and see if you can get any info how testing is done. As consumers, we shouldn't have to go the extra mile but there are so many carefully worded claims that it pays to research. HTS's are getting more expensive and complicated than they used to be and cable mfrs/resellers know that so they want you to purchase their brand of cable. This becomes especially true for the longer lengths, in-wall installations, and the higher video demands.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'But please understand how ludicrous it would be to expect people in Europe to get cables shipped thousands of miles just to get a nice hologram and a guarantee' _- you can guarantee any cable you purchase in Europe was shipped thousands of miles from its place of manufacture.

Certification is a very expensive process which involves cables and production lines be tested and certified - it is more than a simple '_marketing scheme_'.

You will be hard pushed to find a European HDMI Cable Brand with its own production facility - the costs are simply too high.

Joe


----------



## mrtickleuk

Joe Fernand said:


> _'But please understand how ludicrous it would be to expect people in Europe to get cables shipped thousands of miles just to get a nice hologram and a guarantee' _- you can guarantee any cable you purchase in Europe was shipped thousands of miles from its place of manufacture.


Very true! Easy to forget that everything is from China these days 



> Certification is a very expensive process which involves cables and production lines be tested and certified - it is more than a simple '_marketing scheme_'.


Sure. My point about the woeful lack of distribution of those cables outside America still stands, though. Luckily things are beginning to change, slowly. eg this finally available


----------



## happythanh

I bought a 50ft Ruipro HDMI cable which is runner up ranking in the test, however after few 4k movies this cable is dead, I open the conductor to see what is it inside, by my eyes, it does not look like optical much, it is more or less the copper wire.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Ruipro is a Hybrid Fibre cable - Fibre from the Source to the Sink (Display) carrying Video and Audio and Copper from the Sink to the Source carrying DDC, HDCP, ARC etc

Talk with your supplier re a replacement cable - we have had very few failures.

Joe


----------



## Dourn

happythanh said:


> I bought a 50ft Ruipro HDMI cable which is runner up ranking in the test, however after few 4k movies this cable is dead, I open the conductor to see what is it inside, by my eyes, it does not look like optical much, it is more or less the copper wire.


Can you send a photo of the underside of that circuit board? I can't see if there is an optical receiver underneath. Unless it's built in to the actual cable somewhere.


----------



## D_B_0673

happythanh said:


> I bought a 50ft Ruipro HDMI cable which is runner up ranking in the test, however after few 4k movies this cable is dead, I open the conductor to see what is it inside, by my eyes, it does not look like optical much, it is more or less the copper wire.


Can you link to the test with the results for cables?
thanks
dan


----------



## Dourn

D_B_0673 said:


> Can you link to the test with the results for cables?
> thanks
> dan


Yes, look at the very first post in this thread, it's the PDF linked to, is the first set of tests they did (i.e. labelled as #1 ).


----------



## D_B_0673

Dourn said:


> Yes, look at the very first post in this thread, it's the PDF linked to, is the first set of tests they did (i.e. labelled as #1 ).


thanks


----------



## happythanh

Joe Fernand said:


> Ruipro is a Hybrid Fibre cable - Fibre from the Source to the Sink (Display) carrying Video and Audio and Copper from the Sink to the Source carrying DDC, HDCP, ARC etc
> 
> Talk with your supplier re a replacement cable - we have had very few failures.
> 
> Joe


Thanks Joe, I really do not know Ruipro is hybrid, so how about Monoprice? the 1st choice cable as per the test, is it hybrid or 100% fibre? which one is better? hybrid vs fibre?

Thanh


----------



## Joe Fernand

Monoprice - no experience with that option.

Celerity (Active Fibre) - we have supplied a few. They require external power at both ends of the cable and being 'all Fibre' I find they can add a fair bit of time to the startup and source change process in some systems.

Ruipro (Hybrid Fibre) - we have supplied a lot of those and so far all good reports. With the copper lines keeping the DDC, HDCP, EDID etc 'as is' they are pretty much seamless in any system I have tried so far.

Joe


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## vagos1103gr1

Guys I just bought an Optoma UHD60 before I had a vivitel hk2288 and I could project 4k60 10 bit 2020. Now with the same hdmi cable I can’t project with optoma more than 4k30 12bit 709. Can you suggest hdmi cables a short one to go to my receiver and a 25 ft?


----------



## markrubin

with regards to Ruipro type active fiber cables, is there a practical limit to the number of cables in a system with regard to power the fiber optic transceivers?

for example a system with a matrix switcher where several active fiber cables are used?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Haven’t tried more than Source > 5m Ruipro > 1x2 > 2m HDMI > AVR > 10m Ruipro > Display and the second Output of the 1x2 > 20m Ruipro > Display. 

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TrendSetterX

markrubin said:


> with regards to Ruipro type active fiber cables, is there a practical limit to the number of cables in a system with regard to power the fiber optic transceivers?
> 
> for example a system with a matrix switcher where several active fiber cables are used?


Mark, this would likely be a question for the matrix manufacturer as it's the matrix that is powering the port. My assumption would be that the matrix would provide the proper amount to each port per the HDMI spec, but the reality could be to the contrary and vary by manufacturer.


----------



## JackB

I will need about 6' to 10' for my new setup. Although all of this work is for longer cables how about short lengths? I have found Monoprice offers several high speed HDMI cables for less than $10. They are:

$8.68 - Ultra Slim 18Gbps Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 6' Black (#13592)
$5.99 - Essentials Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#27040)
$4.49 - Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#15428)

Any experience with these? Seems like the way to go for a short run.


----------



## TrendSetterX

JackB said:


> I will need about 6' to 10' for my new setup. Although all of this work is for longer cables how about short lengths? I have found Monoprice offers several high speed HDMI cables for less than $10. They are:
> 
> 
> 
> $8.68 - Ultra Slim 18Gbps Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 6' Black (#13592)
> 
> $5.99 - Essentials Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#27040)
> 
> $4.49 - Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#15428)
> 
> 
> 
> Any experience with these? Seems like the way to go for a short run.




You shouldn’t need an Active cable for those lengths. I would stick with the 27040.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JackB said:


> I will need about 6' to 10' for my new setup. Although all of this work is for longer cables how about short lengths? I have found Monoprice offers several high speed HDMI cables for less than $10. They are:
> 
> $8.68 - Ultra Slim 18Gbps Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 6' Black (#13592)
> $5.99 - Essentials Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#27040)
> $4.49 - Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6' Black (#15428)
> 
> Any experience with these? Seems like the way to go for a short run.


At under 10', any Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC) should work fine. An active cable is overkill. There is nothing magical about an active cable other than you can extend the maximum certifiable length of 25'. Active cables work great for 1080p and longer lengths but when you start to push 4k HDR over about 20', problems arise for a lot of folks. Just be mindful of your bend radius, even at less than 10', because 4k HDR is finicky.


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## EZYHD

While we have only been the Ruipro Distributors for Australia and NZ for 3 months, not had one faulty from many. As the HDMI Fibre Optic cable was not available here before unless imported, its now gaining traction from AV resellers after excellent local online reviews.


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## mavang

happythanh said:


> I bought a 50ft Ruipro HDMI cable which is runner up ranking in the test, however after few 4k movies this cable is dead, I open the conductor to see what is it inside, by my eyes, it does not look like optical much, it is more or less the copper wire.




Have you had a response from the manufacturer I was about to bite the bullet and buy one but I am concerned hoping to hear some sort of response 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martinm0

Joe Fernand said:


> Pearsco - I asked someone to try Dolby Digital Plus via ARC in a system with one of our Ruipro cables, none of my Displays support DD+.Joe


Hi Joe,

I happen to have just purchased the RUIPRO 10m meter cable to test with my new LG OLED55B7A. I can confirm that the cable works perfectly for full 4k/Dolby Vision, but it does not handle ARC audio well at all. Dolby Digital+ audio over ARC (Amazon Prime app) comes out as a crazy digital garbled mess (imagine a fax machine using auto-tune).

I did have issues with other longer runs of HDMI cables as well, but with these cables the audio was normal, but would drop out every minute or so. I was successful is braking down one of HDMI runs that use two 15' cables and a MP Blackbird repeater and just connected a single 15' cable between the TV and receiver and DD+ seems to be working perfectly now.

I'm disappointed the RUIPRO cable could not handle ARC as it's the only cable so far that has worked perfectly with all 4k and HDR settings I've tested. 

I think I saw you mention there is perhaps some work being done to address the ARC issues. Do you happen to have any new info? Thanks!


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## TrendSetterX

martinm0 said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> I happen to have just purchased the RUIPRO 10m meter cable to test with my new LG OLED55B7A. I can confirm that the cable works perfectly for full 4k/Dolby Vision, but it does not handle ARC audio well at all. Dolby Digital+ audio over ARC (Amazon Prime app) comes out as a crazy digital garbled mess (imagine a fax machine using auto-tune).
> 
> I did have issues with other longer runs of HDMI cables as well, but with these cables the audio was normal, but would drop out every minute or so. I was successful is braking down one of HDMI runs that use two 15' cables and a MP Blackbird repeater and just connected a single 15' cable between the TV and receiver and DD+ seems to be working perfectly now.
> 
> I'm disappointed the RUIPRO cable could not handle ARC as it's the only cable so far that has worked perfectly with all 4k and HDR settings I've tested.
> 
> I think I saw you mention there is perhaps some work being done to address the ARC issues. Do you happen to have any new info? Thanks!


Sounds like you'd be a great person to test one of the new Monoprice HOSS cables that uses the new 2.0 active technology over copper with ARC. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14468 There's a 20% off code of "MONSTER" today too. Let us know how it works


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## martinm0

TrendSetterX said:


> Sounds like you'd be a great person to test one of the new Monoprice HOSS cables that uses the new 2.0 active technology over copper with ARC. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14468 There's a 20% off code of "MONSTER" today too. Let us know how it works


I may give this cable a try. I did test the Redmere cables back in December with no success, so I'll be curious to see how these differ. I also had purchased a Startech Plenum 25' HDMI cable with the RUIPRO, but was only able to get HDR and not Dolby Vision.

I'll report back on this cable if I grab it. Thanks!


----------



## TrendSetterX

martinm0 said:


> I may give this cable a try. I did test the Redmere cables back in December with no success, so I'll be curious to see how these differ. I also had purchased a Startech Plenum 25' HDMI cable with the RUIPRO, but was only able to get HDR and not Dolby Vision.
> 
> I'll report back on this cable if I grab it. Thanks!


I would have been happy to be the guinea pig for this cable as I'm awaiting a new 75" 940E Sony this week but there's a half-dead 50" plasma already on the wall that's too heavy to take down myself so I can't tell if the existing cable runs have conduit (currently there's 8 RG6 and 2 Cat5E). If there's no conduit, I'm not going the HDMI cable route. As an alternative I've spent way too much time researching HDBaseT options that support the same specs we're all trying to get out of cables here (FWIW, I've only found two products so far that feature full 4:4:4, 18gbs, and HDMI 2.0b, and ARC - the P8-HDBT2-U-EXSET from Pulse 8 available mid-November and the Liberty DL-HD2100 which isn't available until late February). Currently I'm using a cheapo J-Tech Digital "4K" extender from Amazon that gives the current plasma fits with HD resolution changes.


----------



## martinm0

TrendSetterX said:


> I would have been happy to be the guinea pig for this cable as I'm awaiting a new 75" 940E Sony this week but there's a half-dead 50" plasma already on the wall that's too heavy to take down myself so I can't tell if the existing cable runs have conduit (currently there's 8 RG6 and 2 Cat5E). If there's no conduit, I'm not going the HDMI cable route. As an alternative I've spent way too much time researching HDBaseT options that support the same specs we're all trying to get out of cables here (FWIW, I've only found two products so far that feature full 4:4:4, 18gbs, and HDMI 2.0b, and ARC - the P8-HDBT2-U-EXSET from Pulse 8 available mid-November and the Liberty DL-HD2100 which isn't available until late February). Currently I'm using a cheapo J-Tech Digital "4K" extender from Amazon that gives the current plasma fits with HD resolution changes.


Order is placed! Will probably be a week since I've over in VT. I will make it a point to follow up and post my experiences for you.

Thanks!


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## Joe Fernand

martinm0 - I’ve not encountered issues with ARC so far.

I don’t have the option to test DD+ from an actual Source - I’ll need to try and set that up later in the week/early next week.

Joe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martinm0

Joe Fernand said:


> martinm0 - I’ve not encountered issues with ARC so far.
> 
> I don’t have the option to test DD+ from an actual Source - I’ll need to try and set that up later in the week/early next week.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, Joe. If there is any testing you'd like me to do, I'd be happy to assist. I have LG OLED55B7A, Denon AVR-X4200W, 10m RUIPRO cable, and by end of the week I'll have Oppo 203.


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## rbpeirce

I was having trouble getting signal from a Denon AVR to a LG OLED TV. All the cabling ran thru the walls and nothing, including HDBaseT would work. everything had frequent drop-outs. I replaced everything with a Monoprice 2166 active cable last month and all is well. Although all my other cables are in the wall, this one is thin enough I could slide it under the baseboard and snake it through an existing opening in the wall. Unless you know it is there you wold never notice it.

I chose this cable after reading the cable review that started this thread. Great work that!!


----------



## Pip

rbpeirce said:


> I was having trouble getting signal from a Denon AVR to a LG OLED TV. All the cabling ran thru the walls and nothing, including HDBaseT would work. everything had frequent drop-outs. I replaced everything with a Monoprice 2166 active cable last month and all is well. Although all my other cables are in the wall, this one is thin enough I could slide it under the baseboard and snake it through an existing opening in the wall. Unless you know it is there you wold never notice it.
> 
> I chose this cable after reading the cable review that started this thread. Great work that!!


I believe that’s model 21*5*66. 

Pip


----------



## martinm0

rbpeirce said:


> I was having trouble getting signal from a Denon AVR to a LG OLED TV. All the cabling ran thru the walls and nothing, including HDBaseT would work. everything had frequent drop-outs. I replaced everything with a Monoprice 2166 active cable last month and all is well. Although all my other cables are in the wall, this one is thin enough I could slide it under the baseboard and snake it through an existing opening in the wall. Unless you know it is there you wold never notice it.
> 
> I chose this cable after reading the cable review that started this thread. Great work that!!


Would you test ARC audio with that setup and let me know if the cable is able to send proper DD+ audio back to the receiver from Amazon app (I've been using the The Tick show)? This cable looks very similar to the Ruipro cable I just got, which works perfectly with video, but is not able to handle DD+ (PCM and standard DD seem to be fine).

Also, would you confirm what receiver and TV you have? Thanks!


----------



## mrtickleuk

martinm0 said:


> This cable looks very similar to the Ruipro cable I just got, which works perfectly with video, but is not able to handle DD+ (PCM and standard DD seem to be fine).


You do realise (I hope) that sending DD+ over ARC is out-of-spec? If it doesn't work for your setup, but PCM and DD does, then you can't blame the cable! ARC is working correctly.
DD+ over ARC is implemented on some TVs, but on those TVs where it works - if yours happens to be one of the rare ones where it works - it's nothing to do with the cable. It's down to the TV manufacturer adding something extra that they didn't have to add.


----------



## TrendSetterX

martinm0 said:


> Would you test ARC audio with that setup...


 It won't work. The Monoprice SlimRun fiber cables don't support ARC.



mrtickleuk said:


> You do realise (I hope) that sending DD+ over ARC is out-of-spec? If it doesn't work for your setup, but PCM and DD does, then you can't blame the cable! ARC is working correctly.
> DD+ over ARC is implemented on some TVs, but on those TVs where it works - if yours happens to be one of the rare ones where it works - it's nothing to do with the cable. It's down to the TV manufacturer adding something extra that they didn't have to add.


Yes, it is finicky and only certain TV manufacturers support it, however it is also very cable-dependent because not all cables support ARC.


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## Joe Fernand

As per mrtickuk we are talking about a non standard implementation of ARC and saying ARC doesn’t work with a particular cable (when it does work to Spec) is a bit harsh.

Stick to DD or PCM and I know from my tests that the Ruipro work as advertised.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martinm0

mrtickleuk said:


> You do realise (I hope) that sending DD+ over ARC is out-of-spec?


Is it really out of spec? I'll be honest that I haven't been keeping tabs on ARC audio as I've always gone direct to my AV receiver and then just use my TVs as monitors. However, if TVs are supporting DD+ over ARC (my 2017 LG OLED does), then are they forcing a format not supported by ARC?

The reason I ask is that I have a RUIPRO 10m active HDMI cable that seems to handle PCM and DD, but not DD+. I can get DD+ working with standard HDMI cables, but it's only reliable when I use a single 15' HDMI cable (vs two 15' and a MP Blackbird repeater, which the audio blips out every minute or so). The RUIPRO just sends this digital garbage of sound with DD+. So this definitely works - I'm now trying to figure out if active HDMI cables really support ARC or not.



TrendSetterX said:


> It won't work. The Monoprice SlimRun fiber cables don't support ARC.
> 
> Yes, it is finicky and only certain TV manufacturers support it, however it is also very cable-dependent because not all cables support ARC.


Thanks @TrendSetterX. Really struggling with all this 4k HDR/DV and now ARC (DD+). My receiver won't support Dolby Vision until probably next year, and if I run my video sources directly to my TV and use ARC, I can only get Dolby Digital back thus far (and no DTS). It's infuriating that I have to pick either best video or best audio, and can't get both to work in their best formats.


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## pankov

martinm0,
if you are in the States where you have great return policy you can give a try on one of these cables
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467
they are active copper cables which might cover both of your needs.
...
or the short haul ones from here
http://www.avproconnect.com/bullet-train-hdmi-cables.html


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## jowicrt

I received my 75ft monoprice optical hdmi cable today, and connected it between my Arcam AVR850 and my JVC-X7500 projector as the 2nd HDMI out on the Arcam. The first HDMI out is connected to my Kuro 60" plasma.

The moment i plug the monoprice in the 2nd HDMI port, the Kuro stops displaying an image... if i turn the JVC projector on, the image is back and can be seen simultaniously on the Kuro and the JVC projector... if i turn the projector off, the image on the Kuro dissappears again... this is not what i expected. I tried switching the Kuro and the JVC outputs at the back of the Arcam but to no avail. Also tried some settings in the Arcam regarding HDMI out (passthrough 4k) no effect.

Why can't i get a picture on my tv anymore once i plug in this expensive cable?


----------



## Pip

Search for some of my recent posts for more details. 

With dual HDMI output AVRs, if you have both outputs selected, and a display connected with an active cable is powered off, you will not get a handshake to your other display. You need to select only one HDMI output on your AVR, or have both displays powered on.

Pip


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## jowicrt

Pip said:


> Search for some of my recent posts for more details.
> 
> With dual HDMI output AVRs, if you have both outputs selected, and a display connected with an active cable is powered off, you will not get a handshake to your other display. You need to select only one HDMI output on your AVR, or have both displays powered on.
> 
> Pip


Can this be solved by adding a hdmi splitter, so there is one HDMI out from the AVR active to the splitter? Maybe some HDFury thingy?


----------



## kwindrem

jowicrt said:


> I received my 75ft monoprice optical hdmi cable today, and connected it between my Arcam AVR850 and my JVC-X7500 projector as the 2nd HDMI out on the Arcam. The first HDMI out is connected to my Kuro 60" plasma.
> 
> The moment i plug the monoprice in the 2nd HDMI port, the Kuro stops displaying an image... if i turn the JVC projector on, the image is back and can be seen simultaniously on the Kuro and the JVC projector... if i turn the projector off, the image on the Kuro dissappears again... this is not what i expected. I tried switching the Kuro and the JVC outputs at the back of the Arcam but to no avail. Also tried some settings in the Arcam regarding HDMI out (passthrough 4k) no effect.
> 
> Why can't i get a picture on my tv anymore once i plug in this expensive cable?


This is apparently a "feature" of HDMI. It seems SOME of the receiving circuitry is powered by the HDMI cable, so when the device is powered down, the source device can receive a partial handshake causing the powered display to go black.

Also, you may end up with a format that both displays support. That is, in your case, the plasma may force an HD image on your UHD display.

Splitters function in much the same way as dual output processor/AVR.


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## jowicrt

Oh man this is really messed up. I bought this cable just to prevent **** like this. Now it is causing it. And i need the length (60ft, so i needed a 75ft cable).
I guess i'll have the same hdmi nonsense with a hdmi extender like a hdmi over ethernet cable?


----------



## markrubin

jowicrt said:


> Can this be solved by adding a hdmi splitter, so there is one HDMI out from the AVR active to the splitter? Maybe some HDFury thingy?


I think the HD Fury thingy would address the projector power issue since you can set the EDID of each port,
but the bigger issue, as mentioned, is the Kuro will prevent the projector from displaying 4K

also there should be a menu setting in the Arcam for HDMI outs: can you check what it is set on?


----------



## happythanh

mavang said:


> Have you had a response from the manufacturer I was about to bite the bullet and buy one but I am concerned hoping to hear some sort of response
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I contacted the seller and they really have great service, they refund me 100% and send me a new cable for free however I will have to return it.


----------



## jowicrt

markrubin said:


> I think the HD Fury thingy would address the projector power issue since you can set the EDID of each port,
> but the bigger issue, as mentioned, is the Kuro will prevent the projector from displaying 4K
> 
> also there should be a menu setting in the Arcam for HDMI outs: can you check what it is set on?


I've asked the question about simultaniously showing 4K (on the JVC) and 1080p (on the Kuro) in one of the HDFury's topics, if i understood correctly, that was possible with either the Linker or another device, have to find that topic again. I will ask this question about the active hdmi cable issue there as well.

There are not much settings in the Arcam; you can set passthru or 4k2k for the HDMI output(s) and you can turn CEC/Arc on/off that's about it. None of the settings solve the black screen.


----------



## Pip

It seems to me there *must* be a setting in the Arcam to choose HDMI outputs: Output 1, Output 2, of both simultaneously. The least expensive consumer AVRs with dual HDMI outputs all have this feature. 

As long as you choose one dedicated output, you will not be affected by the other display being off, or having your 4K display limited to 1080 resolution.

Pip


----------



## jowicrt

Pip said:


> It seems to me there *must* be a setting in the Arcam to choose HDMI outputs: Output 1, Output 2, of both simultaneously. The least expensive consumer AVRs with dual HDMI outputs all have this feature.


No, there is no such option...


----------



## Joe Fernand

Arcam FMJ AVR850 - has mirrored HDMI Outputs.

If you add the HDfury Linker or AVRKey to the second Output you can set that device to always down convert UHD content to 1080p (with HDCP 1.4) to suit the KURO Display.

I have the FMJ SR250 in my test rig - along with various HDfury converters and our Ruipro Hybrid Fibre cables.

Joe


----------



## kidtreo

*Any prayer of using existing wire with amps / repeaters for a reliable 4k connection?*

Hello and thank you in advance for any help! I hope this is an appropriate question for this thread...

My home theatre installer (very much against my wishes and instructions) used HDMI 1.3 cable inside my walls (as well as 5 strands of extra currently unused high quality component cabling) for a 25-35 foot run to a 4K sony display (old school XBR 84X900) a few years ago.

Having just upgraded my pre-amp this week after it died, I discovered this to my horror and naturally can't pass HDMI 2.X / HDCP 2.2 signal as that requires 18gbps bandwidth far beyond the 1.3 cable in the walls.

Might any benevolent genius here know of ANY workable solution (like a pair of signal repeaters or amplifiers) that would allow me to use my existing wiring so I don't have to rip my walls apart to install new cable? And if not and I'm just screwed, what 25-50 ft solutions offer a good balance of reliability without crazy expense?

Thanks so much again!

Eagerly awaiting news of my fate lol...

~Kidtreo


----------



## TrendSetterX

kidtreo said:


> Hello and thank you in advance for any help! I hope this is an appropriate question for this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> My home theatre installer (very much against my wishes and instructions) used HDMI 1.3 cable inside my walls (as well as 5 strands of extra currently unused high quality component cabling) for a 25-35 foot run to a 4K sony display (old school XBR 84X900) a few years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Having just upgraded my pre-amp this week after it died, I discovered this to my horror and naturally can't pass HDMI 2.X / HDCP 2.2 signal as that requires 18gbps bandwidth far beyond the 1.3 cable in the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> Might any benevolent genius here know of ANY workable solution (like a pair of signal repeaters or amplifiers) that would allow me to use my existing wiring so I don't have to rip my walls apart to install new cable? And if not and I'm just screwed, what 25-50 ft solutions offer a good balance of reliability without crazy expense?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much again!
> 
> 
> 
> Eagerly awaiting news of my fate lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kidtreo




Read the test report pdf linked in the first post. There is a section on an adapter that plugs onto either end of HDMI cables that wouldn’t otherwise be able to pass the 18gbs tests.


----------



## Mike_WI

kidtreo said:


> Hello and thank you in advance for any help! I hope this is an appropriate question for this thread...
> 
> My home theatre installer (very much against my wishes and instructions) used HDMI 1.3 cable inside my walls (as well as 5 strands of extra currently unused high quality component cabling) for a 25-35 foot run to a 4K sony display (old school XBR 84X900) a few years ago.
> 
> Having just upgraded my pre-amp this week after it died, I discovered this to my horror and naturally can't pass HDMI 2.X / HDCP 2.2 signal as that requires 18gbps bandwidth far beyond the 1.3 cable in the walls.
> 
> Might any benevolent genius here know of ANY workable solution (like a pair of signal repeaters or amplifiers) that would allow me to use my existing wiring so I don't have to rip my walls apart to install new cable? And if not and I'm just screwed, what 25-50 ft solutions offer a good balance of reliability without crazy expense?
> 
> Thanks so much again!
> 
> Eagerly awaiting news of my fate lol...
> 
> ~Kidtreo


Is the cable not installed in conduit that you can pull new wire through?

Mike


----------



## kidtreo

Mike_WI said:


> Is the cable not installed in conduit that you can pull new wire through?
> 
> Mike


Regrettably not Mike (though that would've been smart :/).

Thank you kindly for the tip Trendsetter! Fingers crossed!

~Kidtreo


----------



## BarryDMartin

kidtreo said:


> Regrettably not Mike (though that would've been smart :/).
> 
> Thank you kindly for the tip Trendsetter! Fingers crossed!
> 
> ~Kidtreo


Is the existing cable stapled to studs or joists such that it cannot be pulled? If not, could you attach a new cable (or fish tape) and pull a new cable. However, if the cable is run through numerous studs there may be too much resistance to pull the existing cable.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

@kidtreo - first of all there is no such thing as an “HDMI 1.3” cable. What was probably installed was an older high speed hdmi cable that is only rated for 8.9Gbps or maybe 10.2Gbps max bandwidth. Up to 18Gbps is what is needed for 4k HDR. An adapter might work so all you can do is try. Keep in mind that the cable is just a data pipe. You can’t force more bandwidth thru it that it is rated for.

As mentioned, you will more than likely need to upgrade your cable to one that has tested and hopefully certified to meet HDMI 1.4b HARDWARE specs. Use of a conduit is highly recommended when installing in-wall cabling for this very reason. In fact, some folks who installed passive high speed HDMI cables that meet HDMI 1.4b hardware specs are having to upgrade to fiber or a fiber hybrid for runs that are longer than about 20’ in order to run 4k HDR without issues.


----------



## latexii

ARROW-AV said:


> *
> N.B. Report #2 will focus on HDMI cables with lengths 20ft/6m - 30ft/9m; which will be added here as and when it is completed.
> **
> Enjoy!
> *


Any ETA for Report #2 ?


----------



## jong1

Just got a 15M Ruipro from @Joe Fernand to replace my 35ft Celerity, that always worked perfectly but which I destroyed in a DIY c***-up! The Ruipro is also flawless and undoubtedly syncs quicker though, so it's not all bad!

Thanks Joe and John @ The Media Factory for great service as always 

Just had to say though....... 










First time I've seen ANYONE claim "WIDE ANGLE theatrical" and "21:9 video aspect ratio" as a unique/premium feature of their cable . These people will try _anything_ (only kidding RUIPRO, you guys are the _best_. Great customer service here.).


----------



## Joe Fernand

That is the 'tame' version of what the factory would stick on the label 

Joe


----------



## markrubin

is there any solution for field terminating these cables?

i.e. in my house, there is no way to add them except to drill (small) holes to pass them through walls


----------



## mrtickleuk

jong1 said:


> First time I've seen ANYONE claim "WIDE ANGLE theatrical" and "21:9 video aspect ratio" as a unique/premium feature of their cable . These people will try _anything_ (only kidding RUIPRO, you guys are the _best_. Great customer service here.).


What I love about that picture is that "Support for the WIDE ANGLE theatrical" is a feature on its own (which doesn't make sense), and "21:9 video aspect ratio" is the next feature on its own in the list, which also doesn't make sense


----------



## Joe Fernand

markrubin

_'is there any solution for field terminating these cables?'_ - not at present with the Hybrid Fibre cables, I have asked and it will be looked at.

The Celerity Active Fibre cables are terminated as Micro-HDMI and you then add in the USB powered dongles at both ends - that allows for much smaller 'holes' when threading the cables through walls.

mrtcickleuk

I see the labelling on the Box becoming some sort of ''competition'' for the most ridiculous claim 

Joe


----------



## jong1

Joe Fernand said:


> I see the labelling on the Box becoming some sort of ''competition'' for the most ridiculous claim


Disappointed to see that neither feature made it onto the spec sheet on your web site, Joe. Think of the lost sales!


----------



## SJHT

What is the current best for 15’-20’? Thanks. SJ


----------



## Otto Pylot

SJHT said:


> What is the current best for 15’-20’? Thanks. SJ


If you are referring to 4k UHD then most folks seem to have the best luck with a hybrid Ruipro cable. 15' - 20' is at the apparent limit to where a lot of people start having issues so you might be able to get away with a copper cable that has been certified (by ATC) but I would seriously consider the fiber cable. Just run your cable in a conduit for easier future upgrades, which you will need to do eventually.


----------



## SJHT

I’m using a 50’ monoprice fiber from this thread (to my projector which works great).But I need a 15-20’ from one source to my video processor and would like to replace with something that can handle full bandwidth. Thanks. SJ


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ if by full bandwidth you mean 18Gbps then the fiber or hybrid fiber is your best bet for reliability. At the 20' distance you may be able to get away with a copper-based cable but you might need to use a thicker AWG wire (which will reduce your bend radius and may put some extra strain on the hdmi input).


----------



## kidtreo

Thank you Otto et all...

(I hope this thread is the best place for these questions - admins, please let me know if not - many thanks).

After purchasing, thoroughly testing, and even speaking with the creator of the HDM-GA1, I am extremely sad to say my crap "1.3 spec lol" 25' HDMI in wall cable is in fact NOT high quality enough to sync 4k 4:2:0 with the amplifier (but I do know that the adapter does work reliably with better quality non high speed hdmi cable in my testing for others who are considering using it).

SO, before ripping my walls out, I'm exploring one last option - using either the high grade component or the CAT6 cable I have already installed in the wall to attempt a 4K over CAT5 / CAT6 dual signal amplifier solution such as: https://*******/V7LeNR

My questions are:
> Might anyone know if the the high quality thick gauge shielded component cable I have is compatible with (better or worse than CAT6) impedance etc for use as CAT5 pr CAT5e /6 for a short 30 foot run? (see pics attached)

> Has anyone had more or less success with various 4K solutions like this and can make a recommendation of performance to price?

Thanks again...


~Kidtreo





Otto Pylot said:


> @kidtreo - first of all there is no such thing as an “HDMI 1.3” cable. What was probably installed was an older high speed hdmi cable that is only rated for 8.9Gbps or maybe 10.2Gbps max bandwidth. Up to 18Gbps is what is needed for 4k HDR. An adapter might work so all you can do is try. Keep in mind that the cable is just a data pipe. You can’t force more bandwidth thru it that it is rated for.
> 
> As mentioned, you will more than likely need to upgrade your cable to one that has tested and hopefully certified to meet HDMI 1.4b HARDWARE specs. Use of a conduit is highly recommended when installing in-wall cabling for this very reason. In fact, some folks who installed passive high speed HDMI cables that meet HDMI 1.4b hardware specs are having to upgrade to fiber or a fiber hybrid for runs that are longer than about 20’ in order to run 4k HDR without issues.


----------



## kidtreo

kidtreo said:


> Thank you Otto et all...
> 
> (I hope this thread is the best place for these questions - admins, please let me know if not - many thanks).
> 
> After purchasing, thoroughly testing, and even speaking with the creator of the HDM-GA1, I am extremely sad to say my crap "1.3 spec lol" 25' HDMI in wall cable is in fact NOT high quality enough to sync 4k 4:2:0 with the amplifier (but I do know that the adapter does work reliably with better quality non high speed hdmi cable in my testing for others who are considering using it).
> 
> SO, before ripping my walls out, I'm exploring one last option - using either the high grade component or the CAT6 cable I have already installed in the wall to attempt a 4K over CAT5 / CAT6 dual signal amplifier solution such as: https://*******/V7LeNR
> 
> My questions are:
> > Might anyone know if the the high quality thick gauge shielded component cable I have is compatible with (better or worse than CAT6) impedance etc for use as CAT5 pr CAT5e /6 for a short 30 foot run? (see pics attached)
> 
> > Has anyone had more or less success with various 4K solutions like this and can make a recommendation of performance to price?
> 
> Thanks again...
> 
> 
> ~Kidtreo


*Links were killed in previous post sorry. This is the device i'm considering:*
AV Access New HDMI Extender (HDBaseT),Uncompressed 4K 60Hz over Cat5e/6a, 70m(230ft)1080P,40m(130ft)4K, HDR, Superior Compatibility,DTS7.1CH,HDCP2.2,Bi-directional PoE+IR+RS232 Smart EDID 

Pics below...thanks so much again!

~Kidtreo


----------



## Otto Pylot

If the CAT-6 cable is solid core (not CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) then you may be able to terminate with HDBT. Solid core CAT-6 cable is usually 22AWG and each, solid copper wire is individually insulated and then all 8 wires (4 pairs) and encased in a jacket. It's a stiff cable so running it in a conduit would be highly recommended. Just keep in mind that the HDMI chipsets used in HDBT may not be the current protocols but it is easier to update the termination point than to lay all new cable, especially in-wall.


----------



## VideoGrabber

Joe Fernand said:


> I see the labelling on the Box becoming some sort of ''competition'' for the most ridiculous claim


Yes, that should be fun. 

What gives me pause though is when I read, _"Bandwidth *up to* 18 Gbps"_. I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but I know what 'up to' means. From an engineering standpoint, what I want to see is 18 Gbps as a minimum guaranteed level of support. Not a possible maximum. (Note that this is different than stating, "*Supports* up to 18 Gbps".)

Admittedly, this may be just semantics, and picking nits. Especially when half the time things don't even do what they _explicitly claim_ they do.  [have you ever looked at the avalanche of HDMI stuff from China on the *bay? All boldly claiming 4K and UHD support... while in the fine-print spec'ing only 1080p, or 9 Gbps BW.


----------



## kwindrem

kidtreo said:


> *Links were killed in previous post sorry. This is the device i'm considering:*
> AV Access New HDMI Extender (HDBaseT),Uncompressed 4K 60Hz over Cat5e/6a, 70m(230ft)1080P,40m(130ft)4K, HDR, Superior Compatibility,DTS7.1CH,HDCP2.2,Bi-directional PoE+IR+RS232 Smart EDID
> 
> Pics below...thanks so much again!
> 
> ~Kidtreo


Most (all?) HDBT extenders are limited to HDMI 1.4 rates, but HDCP 2.2 is often supported. At 4k 60 Hz you'd be limited to 24 bits so HDR or Dolby Vision would not pass. However, there should be enough bandwidth for 4K 24/30 Hz 4:2:2 12 bit which would support HDR or DV.


----------



## TrendSetterX

kidtreo said:


> *Links were killed in previous post sorry. This is the device i'm considering:*
> 
> AV Access New HDMI Extender (HDBaseT),Uncompressed 4K 60Hz over Cat5e/6a, 70m(230ft)1080P,40m(130ft)4K, HDR, Superior Compatibility,DTS7.1CH,HDCP2.2,Bi-directional PoE+IR+RS232 Smart EDID
> 
> 
> 
> Pics below...thanks so much again!
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kidtreo




There currently are zero hdmi over category products on the market that can match what the original purpose/tests of this thread are going for (plus ARC). I’ve been doing a lot of research and contacting manufacturers because I’m in the same situation. The first product that is coming to market will be the Pulse Eight P8-HDBT2-U-EXSET which is on track to be released the first of the year. Liberty Cable has a similar product coming soon after that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> There currently are zero hdmi over category products on the market that can match what the original purpose/tests of this thread are going for (plus ARC). I’ve been doing a lot of research and contacting manufacturers because I’m in the same situation. The first product that is coming to market will be the Pulse Eight P8-HDBT2-U-EXSET which is on track to be released the first of the year. Liberty Cable has a similar product coming soon after that.


That's one of the new gen HDBT units that hopefully will live up to its hype.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> That's one of the new gen HDBT units that hopefully will live up to its hype.


Uncompressed 4K 60Hz over Cat5e/6a at 40 meters would be good news as I have run cat 6a through the house. There is hope for the disappointed but I try not to get too excited until products are available and reviewed. However cat6a is rated for 10GBS not 18.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Postmoderndesign said:


> Uncompressed 4K 60Hz over Cat5e/6a at 40 meters would be good news as I have run cat 6a through the house. There is hope for the disappointed but I try not to get too excited until products are available and reviewed. However cat6a is rated for 10GBS not 18.


 They will be compressing the data.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

TrendSetterX said:


> They will be compressing the data.


That is what I mean by wait for reviews and see.

I put cat6a throughout the house because I was remodeling, walls were open and Google fiber was installing conduit at the street.

Then Google fiber simply stopped their installation. 

Being a late adopter usually always best


----------



## TrendSetterX

Postmoderndesign said:


> Being a late adopter usually always best


Indeed. I've got 6 RG6 and 2 CAT5E that would agree with you. The interesting thing I've learned is that HDCP2.2 actually requires some noise - if the signal is too pure it triggers protections. So the manufacturers of "active" cables (and I assume the new HDBT devices as well) are having to purposefully add a tiny amount of noise to the signal.


----------



## SJHT

For 20’-25’, doesn’t premium mean they are tested to work to 18ghz? Thanks. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


----------



## Postmoderndesign

SJHT said:


> For 20’-25’, doesn’t premium mean they are tested to work to 18ghz? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


Yes, but those are HDMI cables. HDBT uses category cables which are different.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I think the cable mfrs and tv mfrs are are doing a huge disservice, mainly to line their own pockets, to the unsuspecting buying public by pushing the latest technology with slick, carefully worded ads and marketing, cool buzzwords, etc. to get folks all excited about buying the latest. Only to learn that connectivity issues over distances longer than about 20' (for 4k HDR) are problematic for most. HDMI 2.1 purportedly has a max distance of 3m. One has to carefully read and understand what "up to", "supports", "compatible", etc means. The HDBT device above specifically mentions HDMI 2.0a. What about HDMI 2.0b, is it supported as well? ARC is another questionable issue. What happens when HDMI 2.1 becomes common? ARC (eARC) will be accomplished via the currently useless ethernet channel. Will the newer HDBT chipsets be able to accommodate that? Realistically speaking, it would appear that fiber, or hybrid fiber, will be the only way to reliably transmit signals down the road, so even solid core CAT-6/6a or even 7 might not be able to support the newer video standards.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SJHT said:


> For 20’-25’, doesn’t premium mean they are tested to work to 18ghz? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


Premium High Speed HDMI cables are the trademarked name for cables that are tested by an Authorized Testing Center (one approved by HDMI.org). 25' is the maximum distance ( a carryover from the HDMI 1.4 hardware specs). The cable will come with a QR code for authenticity. Even though they are certified for 18Gbps that is not a 100% guarantee that they will work reliably for every possible setup. A lot has to do with the version of HDMI chipsets in all of your connected devices, how the cable is installed (bend radius), etc. ATC certification is currently about as close as one can get in terms of peace of mind but it is still not a guarantee.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> I think the cable mfrs and tv mfrs are are doing a huge disservice, mainly to line their own pockets, to the unsuspecting buying public by pushing the latest technology with slick, carefully worded ads and marketing, cool buzzwords, etc. to get folks all excited about buying the latest. Only to learn that connectivity issues over distances longer than about 20' (for 4k HDR) are problematic for most. HDMI 2.1 purportedly has a max distance of 3m. One has to carefully read and understand what "up to", "supports", "compatible", etc means. The HDBT device above specifically mentions HDMI 2.0a. What about HDMI 2.0b, is it supported as well? ARC is another questionable issue. What happens when HDMI 2.1 becomes common? ARC (eARC) will be accomplished via the currently useless ethernet channel. Will the newer HDBT chipsets be able to accommodate that? Realistically speaking, it would appear that fiber, or hybrid fiber, will be the only way to reliably transmit signals down the road, so even solid core CAT-6/6a or even 7 might not be able to support the newer video standards.


Otto, I appreciate your knowledge, clarity, stamina, persistence and willingness to repeat current cabling issues.

When I installed conduit and cat6a in April of 2016 fiber cables were significantly more expensive than cat 6a cables and Google fiber was installing conduit at the street. So I did a little technology dance and concluded that I could network 4K UHD televisions throughout the house for Netflix streaming and for discs. This turned out to be a lousy plan when Google fiber gave up and HDBaseT did not advance. But a great lesson learned-PATIENCE. If I live long enough the conduit may turn out to be a good idea. I have not given up hope for the cat6a but as you say in the end fiber may be necessary. Only count on what multiple reliable sources confirm works.

However, the stand alone LG Oled e6p + an OPPO UDP-203 player did turn out to be a rousing success tor discs, streaming Netflix 1080 HD and over the air broadcast TV.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> Otto, I appreciate your knowledge, clarity, stamina, persistence and willingness to repeat current cabling issues.
> 
> When I installed conduit and cat6a in April of 2016 fiber cables were significantly more expensive than cat 6a cables and Google fiber was installing conduit at the street. So I did a little technology dance and concluded that I could network 4K UHD televisions throughout the house for Netflix streaming and for discs. This turned out to be a lousy plan when Google fiber gave up and HDBaseT did not advance. But a great lesson learned-PATIENCE. If I live long enough the conduit may turn out to be a good idea. I have not given up hope for the cat6a but as you say in the end fiber may be necessary. Only count on what multiple reliable sources confirm works.
> 
> However, the stand alone LG Oled e6p + an OPPO UDP-203 player did turn out to be a rousing success tor discs, streaming Netflix 1080 HD and over the air broadcast TV.


Thanks. I really dislike repeating myself, but there are lots of folks who read these forums but choose not to participate for whatever reason. Those are probably the folks who need whatever knowledge, advice, and encouragement we can give them, even at the cost of repeating ourselves. I know I certainly appreciated it a long time ago, and still do.

If I was in your situation now I'd certainly be doing the same thing, being patient and trying to work out a solution. Running conduit is not always possible for lots of reasons, and if we do, we may need to be creative with what's installed. We will be moving in the next few months and I'm sure the house will be wired, probably not in-conduit so I'll be in the same boat with running all new wiring or dealing with what's there. Hopefully the advice I give to myself will be useful


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> I think the cable mfrs and tv mfrs are are doing a huge disservice, mainly to line their own pockets, to the unsuspecting buying public by pushing the latest technology with slick, carefully worded ads and marketing, cool buzzwords, etc. to get folks all excited about buying the latest. Only to learn that connectivity issues over distances longer than about 20' (for 4k HDR) are problematic for most. HDMI 2.1 purportedly has a max distance of 3m. One has to carefully read and understand what "up to", "supports", "compatible", etc means. The HDBT device above specifically mentions HDMI 2.0a. What about HDMI 2.0b, is it supported as well? ARC is another questionable issue. What happens when HDMI 2.1 becomes common? ARC (eARC) will be accomplished via the currently useless ethernet channel. Will the newer HDBT chipsets be able to accommodate that? Realistically speaking, it would appear that fiber, or hybrid fiber, will be the only way to reliably transmit signals down the road, so even solid core CAT-6/6a or even 7 might not be able to support the newer video standards.


I've been convinced for a year that, other than "in cabinet", HDMI 2.1 will be fiber optic. Ruipro and others show how this can be invisible to the user, if pricier, at least at first. Powered off HDMI, the consumer doesn't need to know other than, maybe, a price jump over short cables. And with fiber it can almost certainly cover any distance, up to at least 1000 ft.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> I've been convinced for a year that, other than "in cabinet", HDMI 2.1 will be fiber optic. Ruipro and others show how this can be invisible to the user, if pricier, at least at first. Powered off HDMI, the consumer doesn't need to know other than, maybe, a price jump over short cables. And with fiber it can almost certainly cover any distance, up to at least 1000 ft.


I would agree with that, but at what distance? For copper, that seems to be spec'd at 3m (so far). Hopefully fiber or hybrid fiber will be reasonably priced for those who's runs are longer than 6' (hopefully much longer).


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> jong1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been convinced for a year that, other than "in cabinet", HDMI 2.1 will be fiber optic. Ruipro and others show how this can be invisible to the user, if pricier, at least at first. Powered off HDMI, the consumer doesn't need to know other than, maybe, a price jump over short cables. And with fiber it can almost certainly cover any distance, up to at least 1000 ft.
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree with that, but at what distance? For copper, that seems to be spec'd at 3m (so far). Hopefully fiber or hybrid fiber will be reasonably priced for those who's runs are longer than 6' (hopefully much longer).
Click to expand...

 Signal loss over fiber is negligible. It's the conversion and electrical interface that is tricky. Once they can make it work over a few meters it should work over hundreds. But, yeah, getting the price down will be a challenge!


----------



## pankov

Guys,
I've heard about AVProConnect (http://www.avproconnect.com/) at the HDTVShootout event held a few months ago and there seem to be a few interesting products in their portfolio - including cables, extenders and switches that are all supporting 18Gbps transmission ... or at least they claim so ... but judging from I've heard/seen about them and their staff it should be true.

I'm not in any way affiliated with them ... nor had the chance to use any of their products since I'm not a US resident and sourcing stuff from the US is quite hard ... and much more expensive ... but I thought I'd share my findings with since it might help the community - after all we are all here to help each other.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pankov said:


> Guys,
> I've heard about AVProConnect (http://www.avproconnect.com/) at the HDTVShootout event held a few months ago and there seem to be a few interesting products in their portfolio - including cables, extenders and switches that are all supporting 18Gbps transmission ... or at least they claim so ... but judging from I've heard/seen about them and their staff it should be true.
> 
> I'm not in any way affiliated with them ... nor had the chance to use any of their products since I'm not a US resident and sourcing stuff from the US is quite hard ... and much more expensive ... but I thought I'd share my findings with since it might help the community - after all we are all here to help each other.


What the marketeers claim and what actually works in home setups can be two entirely different things. I don't place too much credence to any claims until the products actually get in the hands of members here and they test them out thoroughly.


----------



## dxtrem3fx

Great report! I actually wouldn't need a 50' HDMI cable for anything at this point in my life. Is there a list of HDMI cables that will support HDMI 2.0 18 Gbps in shorter versions say from 3' to 20'? Also what about HDMI cables that have a 90°connector on the end. Do any of these support the HDMI 2.0 18 Gbps?


----------



## Otto Pylot

dxtrem3fx said:


> Great report! I actually wouldn't need a 50' HDMI cable for anything at this point in my life. Is there a list of HDMI cables that will support HDMI 2.0 18 Gbps in shorter versions say from 3' to 20'? Also what about HDMI cables that have a 90°connector on the end. Do any of these support the HDMI 2.0 18 Gbps?


25’ is the current max length for certifying cables. However, a properly certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that it will work because there are other factors involved (bend radius for one) in addition to the data pipe (cable). Look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable that comes with a QR code for authenticity. That’s your best bet unless you want to spend the money on fiber or a fiber hybrid. There are 90 degree connectors that can be purchased but you’ll have to test them out to see if there are issues. 4k HDR is a bit finicky at times so any “break” in the cable run may affect the signal. Take whatever you read in regards to specs for the cable and/or connectors with a grain of salt. Pay attention to the return policies just in case.


----------



## SJHT

I just ordered both the 20’ and 25’ premium certified cables from monoprice. Hope they work well! SJ


----------



## Otto Pylot

SJHT said:


> I just ordered both the 20’ and 25’ premium certified cables from monoprice. Hope they work well! SJ


Me too. Let us know.


----------



## brazensol

Do you think the Ruipro or Monoprice fiber optic cables (in the ~30 feet length) are sturdy enough to be pulled through ~20 feet of 2" conduit? I have run thousands of feet of fiber optic in a previous life and the stuff is generally pretty sturdy but it really depends on how well it is manufactured.


----------



## jong1

I've just pulled the Ruipro through some conduit and it feels as sturdy to handle as an average HDMI. It helps that it's a hybrid with 'copper' alongside the fiber. It has a good bend radius and would be hard to kink. Provided you don't try to take it round very sharp bends or get it stuck and start yanking it you should be fine.


----------



## brazensol

jong1 said:


> I've just pulled the Ruipro through some conduit and it feels as sturdy to handle as an average HDMI. It helps that it's a hybrid with 'copper' alongside the fiber. It has a good bend radius and would be hard to kink. Provided you don't try to take it round very sharp bends or get it stuck and start yanking it you should be fine.


That 's good to hear. I was a little concerned over a few reviews of the cable being a bit on the "delicate" side.


----------



## jong1

brazensol said:


> That 's good to hear. I was a little concerned over a few reviews of the cable being a bit on the "delicate" side.


For safety's sake, if possible, it's always good to have someone at the other end feeding the cable, as you gently pull it through.


----------



## EZYHD

We tell customers to feed the HDMI cable down from ceiling wall cavity rather than pull up as many do.


----------



## martinm0

I went for the Monoprice DynamicView cable in 30' length and it's been working great with full Dolby Vision and 4k 4:4:4 support from my PC. I had the Ruipro 10m for a few weeks and it worked great, but couldn't handle Dolby Digital Plus ARC, which this Monoprice cable seems to have no issues. I know that DD+ is not directly supported by ARC, but at almost a third less than the price of the Ruipro I've been very happy with the performance of the MP cable.

This one specifically:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1025503&p_id=14473&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Azekecse

Just found this, *Nice Thread*, thank you OP...

Peace and blessings,

Azeke


----------



## farsider3000

SJHT said:


> I just ordered both the 20’ and 25’ premium certified cables from monoprice. Hope they work well! SJ


I just returned the 20' version to Monoprice and paid the money for their slim run fiber cable. The 20' version is an extremely thick, stiff cable that would not work for my equipment rack.


----------



## markrubin

Joe Fernand said:


> markrubin
> 
> _'is there any solution for field terminating these cables?'_ - not at present with the Hybrid Fibre cables, I have asked and it will be looked at.
> 
> The Celerity Active Fibre cables are terminated as Micro-HDMI and you then add in the USB powered dongles at both ends - that allows for much smaller 'holes' when threading the cables through walls.


was wondering if the Celerity cables might be upgradeable by changing the USB powered dongle to one that would allow newer HDCP specs/ faster speeds in the future?

i.e. it seems the fiber cable itself should be able to handle speeds well over 18 Gbps/ HDCP 2.2 or better: just snap in new electroincs to upgrade...


----------



## jong1

markrubin said:


> was wondering if the Celerity cables might be upgradeable by changing the USB powered dongle to one that would allow newer HDCP specs/ faster speeds in the future?
> 
> i.e. it seems the fiber cable itself should be able to handle speeds well over 18 Gbps/ HDCP 2.2 or better: just snap in new electroincs to upgrade...


My unprofessional opinion, but having had two generations of Celerity cables - 14Gbps & 18Gbps is I wouldn't bet on it. When I upgraded the 14Gbps cable I got no signal at all when I swapped it for the 18Gbps end pieces. I was talking to Celerity HQ and although they thought it was worth a try they chose to ship a whole new cable/end piece set.


----------



## Joe Fernand

I have asked a couple of times but no definitive reply to the concept of ‘upgrading’ the Active Dongles.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cemo62

I will need an 10-15 meter (35 feet) cable for 4k blurays. Do I have to buy fiber cable or other one? Thanks for help


----------



## Otto Pylot

cemo62 said:


> I will need an 10-15 meter (35 feet) cable for 4k blurays. Do I have to buy fiber cable or other one? Thanks for help


At 35' most folks are having the best luck with a hybrid fiber cable. You can try a non-hybrid cable because that might also work. Just read the return policies carefully.


----------



## aznindguy4u

kwindrem said:


> I just bought a 35' version of this DynamicView active HDMI cable and can confirm that it works at 4k, 60 Hz, 4:4:4 8-bit/channel (18 Gb/s). The only 4k source I have is Planet Earth 2 from Dish Network via a Hopper 3. I could not test other formats (4:2:0, more than 8 bits/channel, lower frame rates).
> 
> The DynamicView cable replaced my 11 year old 35' Blue Jeans Cables Series-2 cable. Surprisingly, it also worked at the above mentioned 4k rate! The Series-2 cable is very large and stiff, and uses silver-plated 24 AWG pairs.
> 
> I had picture breakup and random black screens with my previous setup, but it turned out to be the result of 6' cables between my devices and A/V receiver, not the long run to my TV.
> 
> The 6' runs were the same vintage BJC but a different series. Replacing these with Monoprice "Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR" solved the picture breakup issue even before I replaced the Series-2!
> 
> System:
> Dish Network Hopper 3
> Apple TV 4
> Opportunity BDP-83
> Pioneer Elite SC-LX701
> LG OLED65B6p



Hey Kevin, how have the dynamicview cables from monoprice held up so far? I need to get at least 30 ft cable that can support [email protected] with HDR either on 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and I also need support for [email protected] *without* HDR on 4:4:4. This is going to go from my receiver (haven't bought one yet) to a future 4k projector (optoma uhd60/vivitek hk2288/some other brand). And yes, I haven't gotten a projector yet as well. I want to keep my cost for a cable below $45, but need something that will last almost as long as a certified passive hdmi cable. If you think I should wait for awhile for new technology (i.e. HDMI 2.1 support) to come up before pulling the trigger on a active hdmi cable, 4k projector and a receiver, please let me know! Thanks! 

Also, please everybody feel free to respond to this message with any useful information you may have for me as well as others to benefit from.


----------



## Otto Pylot

aznindguy4u said:


> Hey Kevin, how have the dynamicview cables from monoprice held up so far? I need to get at least 30 ft cable that can support [email protected] with HDR either on 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and I also need support for [email protected] *without* HDR on 4:4:4. This is going to go from my receiver (haven't bought one yet) to a future 4k projector (optoma uhd60/vivitek hk2288/some other brand). And yes, I haven't gotten a projector yet as well. I want to keep my cost for a cable below $45, but need something that will last almost as long as a certified passive hdmi cable. If you think I should wait for awhile for new technology (i.e. HDMI 2.1 support) to come up before pulling the trigger on a active hdmi cable, 4k projector and a receiver, please let me know! Thanks!
> 
> Also, please everybody feel free to respond to this message with any useful information you may have for me as well as others to benefit from.


HDMI 2.1 has yet to be ratified so the final hardware specs have not been released. However, they will probably vary little from what has been pre-released. Unfortunately, there is no confirmation that the initial 3m (6') maximum cable length for full 48Gbps bandwidth capability has been overcome by the cable mfrs, regardless of what they claim. A special fiber optic or hybrid fiber optic cable may be needed. And even then, all of your other HDMI connected devices will have to have the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets to maintain full compatibility.

The only advantage of an active cable is to increase the cable length past the current 25' maximum certifiable length for passive cables for 1080p or 4k. 4k HDR is a whole other matter so wire gauge, HDMI chipset versions, bend radius, etc all play a factor in successful, reliable, signal transmission. There are no guarantees, even with an ATC certified cable, so all one can do is try and pay attention to the return policy. If your run is a least 30' as you indicate, and you run your cabling in-wall, the only way to "future proof" is to run your cabling in a conduit because you will eventually be swapping out your cable as video standards/hardware changes and using a conduit makes that process a whole lot easier.

Read the cable mfrs descriptions very carefully and look for phrases like "up to...", "compatible with...." etc.


----------



## kwindrem

aznindguy4u said:


> Hey Kevin, how have the dynamicview cables from monoprice held up so far? I need to get at least 30 ft cable that can support [email protected] with HDR either on 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and I also need support for [email protected] *without* HDR on 4:4:4. This is going to go from my receiver (haven't bought one yet) to a future 4k projector (optoma uhd60/vivitek hk2288/some other brand). And yes, I haven't gotten a projector yet as well. I want to keep my cost for a cable below $45, but need something that will last almost as long as a certified passive hdmi cable. If you think I should wait for awhile for new technology (i.e. HDMI 2.1 support) to come up before pulling the trigger on a active hdmi cable, 4k projector and a receiver, please let me know! Thanks!
> 
> Also, please everybody feel free to respond to this message with any useful information you may have for me as well as others to benefit from.


The Dyanamic View cable is working fine, but so did a Blue Jeans cable from about 2008 which surprised me. I was testing with a signal that required 18 Gb but don't remember which.

The one down side of this cable is it is quite thick but for me it wan't an issue. (But not as thick as the BJC it replaced.)

If you don't need the cable right now, I'd wait. I don't expect prices on this cable to come down but optical cables may in fact come down in price as they become more common. By the time you buy equipment, HDMI 2.1 may be better defined and cables available for the increased data rate (48 Gb).

There may also be improvements in HDMI over CAT cable making an alternative for long runs less costly.

The best way to deal with changes in standards is to run cables in conduit so they can be easily changed.


----------



## mrmachine79

Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) used a Ruipro 15 metre (50 foot) cable with an Xbox One X at 4k/YCC422/HDR/60p? I'm getting dropouts and glitches.

The Ruipro cable works fine at that resolution on my PS4 Pro, and the 2 metre HDMI cable supplied with the Xbox One X also works fine.

The Ruipro cable also works fine if I disable YCC422 in Xbox One X settings.

Everything is connected directly to my 2016 LG OLED65B6T.

Is the Xbox One X just putting out a higher bandwidth signal than the PS4 Pro?

Ruipro say the cable should work. EZYHD say the Xbox One X is probably to blame, but I suspect likely not a warrantable fault that can be remedied. I just want confirmation that this cable is known to work or known not to work.


----------



## Joe Fernand

XB1S (I dont have the 'X') > 5m Ruipro > Arcam AVR > 15m Ruipro > LG EF950 - all green ticks and no issues when playing back with HDR On or Off.

Joe


----------



## EZYHD

Joe Fernand said:


> XB1S (I dont have the 'X') > 5m Ruipro > Arcam AVR > 15m Ruipro > LG EF950 - all green ticks and no issues when playing back with HDR On or Off.
> 
> Joe


IT could be the X of this model and as the Ruipro cable works fine with other 4K devices then its not that hard to work out.


----------



## MisterPinst

mrmachine79 said:


> Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) used a Ruipro 15 metre (50 foot) cable with an Xbox One X at 4k/YCC422/HDR/60p? I'm getting dropouts and glitches.
> 
> The Ruipro cable works fine at that resolution on my PS4 Pro, and the 2 metre HDMI cable supplied with the Xbox One X also works fine.
> 
> The Ruipro cable also works fine if I disable YCC422 in Xbox One X settings.
> 
> Everything is connected directly to my 2016 LG OLED65B6T.
> 
> Is the Xbox One X just putting out a higher bandwidth signal than the PS4 Pro?
> 
> Ruipro say the cable should work. EZYHD say the Xbox One X is probably to blame, but I suspect likely not a warrantable fault that can be remedied. I just want confirmation that this cable is known to work or known not to work.


Are there any specific steps to configure the Xbox One X to output at 4K/YCC422/HDR/60p? I went into the video settings to enable YCC422 option. Is all that's needed + using something like Billy Lynn's long halftime walk?

My TV (LG OLEDC7P) also appears to support 10-bit color only rather than 12-bit. So when I choose 12-bit colour with YCC422 (on the xbox one x), is this a valid 18 gbps torture test?

Is there any way to validate what's being played with the onscreen display on the xbox one x like you can with some UHD blu-ray players?


----------



## sjchmura

That report is amazing. I can't belive only 2 cables actually work as advertised

A general question - why is this so hard? A 50foot cat 6a cable with 10gbs is $10. Why can't hdmi just tie 2 of these togehter?

Hell my 200 foot cat3 gets 700-800mbs speed


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## jong1

You realise we are talking about 18 GIGAbits per second here, right . It's quite fast.

(just wait for HDMI 2.1 and 48Gbps!)


----------



## Otto Pylot

sjchmura said:


> That report is amazing. I can't belive only 2 cables actually work as advertised
> 
> A general question - why is this so hard? A 50foot cat 6a cable with 10gbs is $10. Why can't hdmi just tie 2 of these togehter?
> 
> Hell my 200 foot cat3 gets 700-800mbs speed


Pushing audio/video successfully, especially 4k or 4k UHD over distances longer than 20' is difficult because of the speed needed to sustain the signal without degradation or timing issues. 18Gbps is difficult for home setups longer than 20' for lots of factors. That's why some turn to solid core CAT-6 or 6a (non-CCS and NOT CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with something like HDBT. However, the HDMI chipsets involved need to be the same version and there are other factors such as bend radius that need to considered as well. Fiber or hybrid fiber appears to be the only consistent means of successfully running 4k UHD over distances longer than about 20', regardless of what the cable mfr claims. As mentioned, HDMI 2.1 is going to be a bigger problem because 48Gbps will be required for full HDMI 2.1 compliance, and early reports mention a special cable that has a 3M maximum distance.


----------



## sjchmura

But cat 6a again does 10gbs at 10 cents a foot. So why do hdmi cables not just similar twisted paid tech? It's not like I loose packets on my cat3 overclock to 1gbs 

So are the hdmi cables just suffering from crosstalk? Is that not what twisted paid and now with cat7 shielded twisted pair solving ?


----------



## jong1

sjchmura said:


> But cat 6a again does 10gbs at 10 cents a foot. So why do hdmi cables not just similar twisted paid tech? It's not like I loose packets on my cat3 overclock to 1gbs
> 
> So are the hdmi cables just suffering from crosstalk? Is that not what twisted paid and now with cat7 shielded twisted pair solving ?


I cannot answer the specifics but Ethernet was designed to be incredibly forgiving of lost and delayed data. Packets can be reassembled later even with packets that arrive out of sequence, because some were lost and need to be re-transmitted. With HDMI all has to be pretty much perfect all the time, at least error correction that is not VERY noticeable is very small.


----------



## sjchmura

jong1 said:


> I cannot answer the specifics but Ethernet was designed to be incredibly forgiving of lost and delayed data. Packets can be reassembled later even with packets that arrive out of sequence, because some were lost and need to be re-transmitted. With HDMI all has to be pretty much perfect all the time, at least error correction that is not VERY noticeable is very small.




Yeah must be something. But if hdmi to ethenet conversion exists it begs the question why is hdmi such a bad cable


----------



## bearr48

*Existing cables ok?*

How can I best verify performance of existing HDMI cables to ensure that they are in no way degrading the signal? If I play a 4K UHD disk on Oppo 203, run it thru a Marantz SR7011 and back out to LG OLED 65" tv, what should I be looking for, short of obvious dropouts, etc? Are there any disks (test disks or other) that could act as a "proof of the pudding" or as a stress test? I am running 4 cables at present & don't want to throw them all away unless I need to...? Thanks
Jack


----------



## Otto Pylot

sjchmura said:


> Yeah must be something. But if hdmi to ethenet conversion exists it begs the question why is hdmi such a bad cable


HDMI was a bad idea in the first place but was forced upon us by a select few mfrs years ago. There are much better connection technologies but the tv/device mfrs are locked into HDMI. For example, one of the HDMI specs that is still being pushed is HDMI with ethernet. That's nice but none of the device mfrs embraced that so there are no commercial devices that take advantage of that spec even tho the cable mfrs are prone to mention that as a spec that one can use. With HDMI 2.1 coming out next year, that un-used ethernet channel will be used for ARC (eARC) so that ARC can handle HD Audio (DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc). However, if the device mfrs can't completely isolate ARC from CEC, there are gong to be issues with that as well like there is now. CEC Extensions was supposed to have taken care of the multiple CEC issues with HDMI 2.0 but that hasn't happened yet either.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bearr48 said:


> How can I best verify performance of existing HDMI cables to ensure that they are in no way degrading the signal? If I play a 4K UHD disk on Oppo 203, run it thru a Marantz SR7011 and back out to LG OLED 65" tv, what should I be looking for, short of obvious dropouts, etc? Are there any disks (test disks or other) that could act as a "proof of the pudding" or as a stress test? I am running 4 cables at present & don't want to throw them all away unless I need to...? Thanks
> Jack


If all of your devices are using the same HDMI chipset versions, your cable runs are under 20', and you are using Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified by an ATC with a QR code for authenticity), then you should be fine. As far as signal degradation, digital is digital. You either get it or you don't. The data pipe (cable) can not make the video/audio any better than the source that is feeding it. Some cable mfrs will claim that video is "sharper and clearer" with their cables but that is just plain markings b.s., and they will charge you a lot for their "superior" cables.


----------



## kwindrem

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI was a bad idea in the first place but was forced upon us by a select few mfrs years ago. There are much better connection technologies but the tv/device mfrs are locked into HDMI. For example, one of the HDMI specs that is still being pushed is HDMI with ethernet. That's nice but none of the device mfrs embraced that so there are no commercial devices that take advantage of that spec even tho the cable mfrs are prone to mention that as a spec that one can use. With HDMI 2.1 coming out next year, that un-used ethernet channel will be used for ARC (eARC) so that ARC can handle HD Audio (DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc). However, if the device mfrs can't completely isolate ARC from CEC, there are gong to be issues with that as well like there is now. CEC Extensions was supposed to have taken care of the multiple CEC issues with HDMI 2.0 but that hasn't happened yet either.


I agree that HDMI is a bad idea.

I question the pixel-rate clock on a separate pair than bit-rate data (sometimes 16 times the clock rate). More robust interconnects embed a bit-rate clock into the data stream making data easier to extract. Since there are three data paths and a clock path, propagation delay between pairs can further exacerbate recovery problems. The receiver needs to know the relationship between clock and data in order to recover the data and this relationship varies with every video standard.

Coax (unbalanced) interconnection may be better at these frequencies than a twisted pair as many of the advantages of a twisted pair disappear as frequency increases.

Information about the signal format flows on a very slow interconnect so lock-up times can exceed many seconds.

There's a good discussion of why HDMI is so hard here: 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-the-matter-with-hdmi.htm?hdmiinfo


----------



## azz7686

If they would just ditch the copper and go multimode fiber, they could tweek it and get so much more life expectancy out of it.
I dont understand where they are going with HDMI @ all. Stupid if you ask me atleast with coax you can get alot of bandwidth out of it.
Never understood why they went backwards here at all, very hard to upgrade with this type of cable. Hell with this size of cable imagine how many different fiber connections you could have. Low weight, less stress on HDMI female connector that will wear out over time if used alot. Light doesnt degrade over time!

I remember Circuit city trying to sale me gold plated Toslink cables. I asked him how light will corrode and degrade the signal. Then he went on saying how much better digital coax was. I heard enough from him that day to not even bother. LOL


----------



## sjchmura

Can't blame the guy at CC. science education is bad , getting better, but still. I would rather have that than hear about how organic food is safer or vaccines kill babies


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## Joe Fernand

When HDMI.org initially announced the HDMI 2.1 Specification and the requirement for a new ‘48G’ Cable (now called Ultra High Speed) they cited than somewhere north of 95% of HDMI Cables in circulation were 2m long - the requirement to ‘go long’ is pretty niche.

Comparing HDMI to IP is not that relevant for the vast majority of folk.

Joe


----------



## markrubin

Joe Fernand said:


> When HDMI.org initially announced the HDMI 2.1 Specification and the requirement for a new ‘48G’ Cable (now called Ultra High Speed) they cited than somewhere north of 95% of HDMI Cables in circulation were 2m long - the requirement to ‘go long’ is pretty niche.
> Joe


not the first time HDMI.org got it wrong: remember they still call it 'the one connector solution' yet you likely will need an optical cable to get audio because most features of HDMI don't work as advertised

and anyone with a projector or big flat panel will certainly need a cable longer than 2M

the blame for this mess falls on HDMI.org in my opinion: they seem to be out of touch with the average guy who just can't get this stuff to work: and ends up being a beta tester: I bet most early adopters here have boxes of HDMI cables and adapters that just don't work


----------



## undeadhaggis

*Best solution for 35'?*

My Onkyo TX-RZ920 receiver is about 35' away from my LG OLED65E7P TV. Currently I have a 35' Monster Cable UltraHD Black Platinum cable from the receiver to the TV, but it won't play 4K HDR ([email protected] 4:4:4 chroma sampling). I can only get 1080P through the cable even though the cable says it should be able to do 4K HDR.

I've been following this thread, but there seems to be a difference in opinion in terms of which cable or HDbaseT extender would work best for [email protected] HDR 4:4:4 chroma sampling at a 35' distance. *What cable or HDbaseT extender or some other device will work best if I need 4K HDR at 35'?*


----------



## undeadhaggis

undeadhaggis said:


> *Best solution for 35'?*
> 
> My Onkyo TX-RZ920 receiver is about 35' away from my LG OLED65E7P TV. Currently I have a 35' Monster Cable UltraHD Black Platinum cable from the receiver to the TV, but it won't play 4K HDR ([email protected] 4:4:4 chroma sampling). I can only get 1080P through the cable even though the cable says it should be able to do 4K HDR.
> 
> I've been following this thread, but there seems to be a difference in opinion in terms of which cable or HDbaseT extender would work best for [email protected] HDR 4:4:4 chroma sampling at a 35' distance. *What cable or HDbaseT extender or some other device will work best if I need 4K HDR at 35'?*


In a nutshell I want to be able to send Dolby Vision @ 60Hz to my TV which is 35' away (and going thru my Onkyo TX-RZ920 receiver which is next to the 4K HDR UHD player). I looked into the Atlona AT-HDR-EX-70-2PS, but it says it will only play Dolby Vision @ 30 Hz. If I'm interpreting this thread correctly there doesn't seem to be any HDbaseT extenders that can do this. Some people seem to say some cables like the Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable (4K, HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, CL2, 35ft) will work, but I'm still skeptical. Is there anyting that will work for this, or is my only option to move all my components and wiring across the room next to the TV?


----------



## Otto Pylot

undeadhaggis said:


> In a nutshell I want to be able to send Dolby Vision @ 60Hz to my TV which is 35' away (and going thru my Onkyo TX-RZ920 receiver which is next to the 4K HDR UHD player). I looked into the Atlona AT-HDR-EX-70-2PS, but it says it will only play Dolby Vision @ 30 Hz. If I'm interpreting this thread correctly there doesn't seem to be any HDbaseT extenders that can do this. Some people seem to say some cables like the Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable (4K, HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, CL2, 35ft) will work, but I'm still skeptical. Is there anyting that will work for this, or is my only option to move all my components and wiring across the room next to the TV?


Monster, like AudioQuest, grossly over-sell their cables and charge accordingly. Anything over about 20', if you are wanting to push 4k HDR, is going to be difficult, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. Active cables are really meant for 1080p signals when the length is over 25' (the maximum certifiable length for any cable at present). CL2 is just a fire rating. No cable is 100% guaranteed to work with your particular setup because HDMI chipsets (in source and sink), bend radius, etc all play a part in successful signal transmission. For 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 20' a fiber, or hybrid fiber cable seems to be your best bet. Use of a conduit for in-wall installations is highly recommended because video standards will change and you will need to upgrade your cable. HDBT is a possibility if you are using solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) but again, you need to have the most current HDMI chipsets and no one is guaranteeing that at present.


----------



## StephenBishop

Anyone tried the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074SFX956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)? Appears to be the only cable which is isf certified (whatever that might mean) and seems to have endorsements from several well known folks in the industry.


----------



## drhankz

StephenBishop said:


> Anyone tried the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074SFX956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)? Appears to be the only cable which is isf certified (whatever that might mean) and seems to have endorsements from several well known folks in the industry.


At that price it should work - it has all the right buzz words


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Anyone tried the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074SFX956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)? Appears to be the only cable which is isf certified (whatever that might mean) and seems to have endorsements from several well known folks in the industry.


ISF, Imaging Science Foundation, is not a cable certification program. It's basically a consultation firm that works with mfrs regarding product development for video standards and is trains individuals in how to properly calibrate. The term is used by a lot of cable mfrs to "imply" that their cables meets certain video standards but it is not an actual testing service like an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) which is a certification program designed and approved by HDMI.org. Any cable mfrs who uses the term HDMI 2.0 in their product description to describe their cable is subject, especially if the wording appears to call their cable products "HDMI 2.0" and not specifically state that the cable meets HDMI 2.0 specifications. If the cable doesn't come with a Certificate of Compliance from an ATC, it's all marketing b.s. The cable may work as described but it is no guarantee that it will work 100% if the time. Ruipro fiber and hybrid fiber seem to be the most reliable.


----------



## kwindrem

undeadhaggis said:


> *Best solution for 35'?*
> 
> My Onkyo TX-RZ920 receiver is about 35' away from my LG OLED65E7P TV. Currently I have a 35' Monster Cable UltraHD Black Platinum cable from the receiver to the TV, but it won't play 4K HDR ([email protected] 4:4:4 chroma sampling). I can only get 1080P through the cable even though the cable says it should be able to do 4K HDR.
> 
> I've been following this thread, but there seems to be a difference in opinion in terms of which cable or HDbaseT extender would work best for [email protected] HDR 4:4:4 chroma sampling at a 35' distance. *What cable or HDbaseT extender or some other device will work best if I need 4K HDR at 35'?*


I'm in a similar situation with the AVR separated from the TV.

I had an existing Blue Jeans Cable circa 2008 that worked but replaced it with this one:

DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K, HDR, 18Gbps

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1025503&p_id=14133&seq=1&format=2

Skew is 14133 if the link doesn't work.

I used these Premium Certified (with HDMI sticker) passive cables from the devices to the AVR:

Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6ft Black

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15428&seq=1&format=2

Skew: 15428

I was surprised that an old cable worked but it was very large and used (IIRC 22 gauge wires). But I didn't want problems in the future.

My LG B6 TV doesn't do Dolby Vision at 60 Hz but that hasn't been an issue for me as nearly all the content I watch is film which is 24 Hz. I keep the sources and AVR from converting frame rates and let the TV handle the native rate for display.


----------



## jong1

As discussed when this thread's report first appeared, Ruipro is still a very good choice.

It's Hybrid fiber, so using copper for slow speed stuff, which means it syncs really quickly and, in the report and my personal experience works flawlessly at all HDMI 2.0 data rates.

18Gbps, especially, is still really hard and any individual cable might be flawed, so test thoroughly at a guaranteed 18Gbps when you install. Furthermore, I've had personal experience of several 2016 AVRs not quite being up to the job too (sparkles @18Gbps, solved by swapping for another of the same model), so if you do have issues try a different source and display input (@ guaranteed 18Gbps!) before being sure it's the cable, although that's most likely.

Also make sure, as others have said, that you use conduit so you can easily swap out if you ever have problems or want to upgrade. But, Ruipro should do the job well.


----------



## sjchmura

I wonder if with hdmi 2.1 we will see any cables over 6 feet. It’s 3x more bandwidth and this is already a huge problem


----------



## Otto Pylot

sjchmura said:


> I wonder if with hdmi 2.1 we will see any cables over 6 feet. It’s 3x more bandwidth and this is already a huge problem


I haven't read anything official yet that changes the 3M (6') maximum cable distance for the "special" cable that will be required for HDMI 2.1. Hopefully that will change but we're going to see a lot of smoke and mirrors like we do now for 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0b) once HDMI 2.1 becomes available. I'm not concerned at this point in time with HDMI 2.1. It's going to be a mess and probably worse than HDMI 2.0b is now with distances over 20'.


----------



## T-Bone

Well, the Sewell silverback 40 foot cable did not last... Somehow it degraded to just doing [email protected] with 10 bit. Has a one year warranty and they will replace it for free.

The 40 bucks for a non fiber cable was a gamble. Even though it did not pass the test listed in this thread, My Xbox One S said it met all of its criteria so I figured that was good enough.

In the meantime, I bit the bullet and bought a Ruipro 12 meter fiber cable that this thread rated so highly. 

-T


----------



## Otto Pylot

T-Bone said:


> Well, the Sewell silverback 40 foot cable did not last... Somehow it degraded to just doing [email protected] with 10 bit. Has a one year warranty and they will replace it for free.
> 
> The 40 bucks for a non fiber cable was a gamble. Even though it did not pass the test listed in this thread, My Xbox One S said it met all of its criteria so I figured that was good enough.
> 
> In the meantime, I bit the bullet and bought a Ruipro 12 meter fiber cable that this thread rated so highly.
> 
> -T


We've been seeing quite a few reports about failed Sewell cables. A Sewell rep hit the forum some time ago touting their cables as one of the best around, blah blah blah. Some work, some don't. So they're really no better than anyone else's.


----------



## StephenBishop

StephenBishop said:


> Anyone tried the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074SFX956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)? Appears to be the only cable which is isf certified (whatever that might mean) and seems to have endorsements from several well known folks in the industry.





drhankz said:


> At that price it should work - it has all the right buzz words





Otto Pylot said:


> ISF, Imaging Science Foundation, is not a cable certification program. It's basically a consultation firm that works with mfrs regarding product development for video standards and is trains individuals in how to properly calibrate. The term is used by a lot of cable mfrs to "imply" that their cables meets certain video standards but it is not an actual testing service like an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) which is a certification program designed and approved by HDMI.org. Any cable mfrs who uses the term HDMI 2.0 in their product description to describe their cable is subject, especially if the wording appears to call their cable products "HDMI 2.0" and not specifically state that the cable meets HDMI 2.0 specifications. If the cable doesn't come with a Certificate of Compliance from an ATC, it's all marketing b.s. The cable may work as described but it is no guarantee that it will work 100% if the time. Ruipro fiber and hybrid fiber seem to be the most reliable.


FIBBR is not fibbing! I must say that the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable is THE ONLY cable of that length which is working flawlessly for me and believe me, I have tried pretty much all of the main contenders discussed on this thread e.g.

1) Monoprice 50 ft DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable
2) Ruipro 50 ft HDMI Fiber Cable
3) Monoprice 50 ft HIGH SPEED HDMI 18Gb Fiber Optic Cable SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices
4) Celerity 50 ft HIGH SPEED HDMI 18Gb Fiber Optic Cable

None of the 4 cables above fully worked for me. The Monoprice DynamicView was DOA, and the Celerity, Ruipro and Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR all worked when directly connected from my devices (Pana UB 900, Xbox One X, Nvidia Shield TV, Apple TV 4K and a 1080i cable TV box) to my Sony VW5000ES projector but none of them worked fully (4K 60Hz 4:4:4 at 8 bits and 4K 60Hz 4:2:2 at 12 bits) when the devices were connected to my Marantz 8802A pre-pro using 3 meter Monoprice Premium Certified High Speed cables and the pre-pro was connected to the projector using any one of the above 4 15 meter cables.

I purchased and installed the 15 meter FIBBR UltraPro HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Cable yesterday and so far it has been working flawlessly with all my devices when connected through the pre-pro to the projector. Fingers crossed- will continue to test for another week or so before installing in ceiling!

Should note though that the cable does not support ARC or Ethernet but neither of these are of any importance to me.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Should note though that the cable does not support ARC or Ethernet but neither of these are of any importance to me.


Ethernet is a protocol that was never implemented because none of the device mfrs. were willing to support it. A lot of cable mfrs use that as a selling feature even though nothing supports it. ARC via fiber is not supported well unless you are using a hybrid fiber cable and even then there may be a distance limitation.

FIBBER does make a decent cable that has worked for some. The biggest objection is their marketing of the cable as being an "HDMI 2.0" cable. HDMI.org had asked all the cable mfrs years ago to drop the hardware specification number and just label their cables as High Speed HDMI cable that supports HDMI 2.0(b) protocols. Good luck and continue to test before running your cable thru a conduit.


----------



## T-Bone

FIBBR... That's too rich for my blood since I needed 12m cable 

I'm hoping the RuiPro cable I just purchased works. I'll find out Wednesday 

-T


----------



## Otto Pylot

T-Bone said:


> FIBBR... That's too rich for my blood since I needed 12m cable
> 
> I'm hoping the RuiPro cable I just purchased works. I'll find out Wednesday
> 
> -T


The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable seems to be working very well for a lot of folks. The FIBBR cables are way overpriced. Their pricing structure is very similar to Monster or AudioQuest.


----------



## T-Bone

FYI... Amazon has 10% off on RuiPro fiber HDMI. I got the 10% discount. I also bought a SquareTrade policy for 8 bucks. I'm going to be running this thru a Florida attic so I figure the eight bucks might be worth it in case the cable breaks down over the next four years.

-T


----------



## jong1

15m Ruipro working perfectly here. I think this is cutting edge enough that any individual cable from any supplier has a chance it will not work. Provided you buy from a reputable supplier who will exchange without quibbling I'm very confident you will be very happy. Just use conduit, because even if the cable would last 20 years you will want to replace in 5-10 max!


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Even tho I think 5 years for a cable replacement may be pushing it cause nobody knows how HDMI 2.1 is going to play out over distances until the new chipsets are commercially available in all consumer devices. The mantra for "future proofing" is CONDUIT CONDUIT CONDUIT.


----------



## Tom899

T-Bone said:


> FYI... Amazon has 10% off on RuiPro fiber HDMI. I got the 10% discount. I also bought a SquareTrade policy for 8 bucks. I'm going to be running this thru a Florida attic so I figure the eight bucks might be worth it in case the cable breaks down over the next four years.
> 
> -T


I cancelled my order for a Fibbr cable and ordered RuiPro from Amazon. Decided to save some money. I don't have 4k right now, I'm about two years out for a new 4k projector.
Thanks


----------



## T-Bone

Tom899 said:


> I cancelled my order for a Fibbr cable and ordered RuiPro from Amazon. Decided to save some money. I don't have 4k right now, I'm about two years out for a new 4k projector.
> Thanks


Glad I could help 


-T


----------



## Aaron_

FIBBR cable is really $$$ , but after review those feedback from amazon and test report , i decide to order one to test .
And i found a FIBBR seller on Amazon with 10% price off , i will try their cable and will let you know .
Hope this cable can help me with my 4K setup , wish me a good luck


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^ I would look at a Ruipro hybrid fiber cable. They are getting good reviews from AVS members. There have been some disappointments in the past with FIBBR and their claims. Just pay attention to their return policy. Price doesn't always guarantee quality or reliability. 

A lot depends on how long your run is, the HDMI chipsets involved, bend radius etc.


----------



## Aaron_

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^^ I would look at a Ruipro hybrid fiber cable. They are getting good reviews from AVS members. There have been some disappointments in the past with FIBBR and their claims. Just pay attention to their return policy. Price doesn't always guarantee quality or reliability.
> 
> A lot depends on how long your run is, the HDMI chipsets involved, bend radius etc.


i`ve check the feedback both ruipro and fibbr , ruipro have some feedback says quality problem with 1 star feedback , and fibbr didn`t have 1 , and the i don`t worry about the return policy because i`m a prime member . 
and can not see the claims ?? what is the claims ? 
i have much interesting in fibbr because it may can help me solve my problem with my 4k setup ,i will build the cable in wall , so don`t want to have any problem with it . 
have you ever try their cable ? i will consider your suggestion


----------



## Otto Pylot

Aaron_ said:


> i`ve check the feedback both ruipro and fibbr , ruipro have some feedback says quality problem with 1 star feedback , and fibbr didn`t have 1 , and the i don`t worry about the return policy because i`m a prime member .
> and can not see the claims ?? what is the claims ?
> i have much interesting in fibbr because it may can help me solve my problem with my 4k setup ,i will build the cable in wall , so don`t want to have any problem with it .
> have you ever try their cable ? i will consider your suggestion


Online reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt. I give more weight, and credence, to reviews on AVS from actual users. If your installation is to be in-wall, then the ONLY way to "future proof" your cable run is to use a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit, because chances are you will be upgrading/replacing your cable at some time in the future. FIBBR's claims were based on their marketing and sales pitch and some members here had problems with their cables not meeting those claims. Again, a lot depends on the HMDI chipsets involved and how the cable is installed (bend radius, switches, distance, etc). If it works for you, and you feel the cost is justified, then that's all that matters. Good luck.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^^ ..............There have been some disappointments in the past with FIBBR and their claims..........


Not saying it is perfect, but the 15m FIBBR Ultra Pro which is rated 18 gbps does work very well for me in my setup whereas all the other main contenders that I tried had issues in my setup. Also, I haven't seen any negative user feedback on the FIBBR Ultra Pro series. Of course that is not to say it works for every one in their setup and no one has any negative feedback!


----------



## jong1

Aaron_ said:


> i`ve check the feedback both ruipro and fibbr , ruipro have some feedback says quality problem with 1 star feedback , and fibbr didn`t have 1 , and the i don`t worry about the return policy because i`m a prime member .
> and can not see the claims ?? what is the claims ?
> i have much interesting in fibbr because it may can help me solve my problem with my 4k setup ,i will build the cable in wall , so don`t want to have any problem with it .
> have you ever try their cable ? i will consider your suggestion


On AVS there was a thread, long before this one, where people shared (and still share) their experiences - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...-uhd-blu-ray-long-hdmi-cables-what-works.html. _*This *_thread was set up to discuss what was a robust test of a number of different cables. The Ruipro came out very well in that test. It's true the tests have not been updated and other products have since emerged, but, still, they were very useful at the time and are still the best independent and systematic tests we have. 

Online reviews and other pieces of anecdotal evidence are great, but do need to be treated with caution. Just about any product, even the best, reviewed by any significant number of people, will have some bad reviews. Sometimes people are just unlucky and get a faulty product. Sometimes there is user error or problems elsewhere in the setup. It happens. Regarding feedback on Amazon, when I looked FIBBR had only 5 reviews, all in the last 4 months and one of which looked clearly like it was fake (It's the first review, it quoted the ISF certification claim and other features from their marketing material, rather than personal experience and is the only review by that person). Personally I would not trust what looks like four 5-star reviews from random people on the internet over the experience of dozens of people here, some of whom are professional installers, with dozens of installs under their belt, but of course you may feel differently and that's fine.

I don't want to knock FIBBR. Their product may indeed be very good. But it's a little early to say and their marketing claims seem excessive.


----------



## Kazz063

Aaron_ said:


> i`ve check the feedback both ruipro and fibbr , ruipro have some feedback says quality problem with 1 star feedback , and fibbr didn`t have 1 , and the i don`t worry about the return policy because i`m a prime member .
> and can not see the claims ?? what is the claims ?
> i have much interesting in fibbr because it may can help me solve my problem with my 4k setup ,i will build the cable in wall , so don`t want to have any problem with it .
> have you ever try their cable ? i will consider your suggestion


I have a 10m Ruipro which has worked flawlessly in my setup for months now, after having had a 10m Celerity that stopped working after 2 months.


----------



## Laserion

*RUIPRO 30m - 100 feet*

As a member who passed several months with these topics with searching the required cable, i'd like to share my comments after reaching almost 1 year usage periode with my 30m - 100 feet RUIPRO Hdmi cable.

30meters is a really really challenging distance for 18gbps but it is still working without any single issue. I watch lots of 4K material and many of these have HDR. My NVIDIA Shield is always set to 4K-60hz-10 bit.

So, i can still strongly advise this product to everybody who can't decide what to purchase.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Laserion said:


> As a member who passed several months with these topics with searching the required cable, i'd like to share my comments after reaching almost 1 year usage periode with my 30m - 100 feet RUIPRO Hdmi cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 30meters is a really really challenging distance for 18gbps but it is still working without any single issue. I watch lots of 4K material and many of these have HDR. My NVIDIA Shield is always set to 4K-60hz-10 bit.
> 
> 
> 
> So, i can still strongly advise this product to everybody who can't decide what to purchase.




What chroma Subsampling ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## jong1

TrendSetterX said:


> What chroma Subsampling ?


Yes!

I have a 15M Ruipro and have found it similarly reliable. But when testing it's really important to know what bitrate you are using. If the Shield is really sending 4K/60 10-bit the only option is 4:2:0 and that only requires 11.1Gbps. 4K/60 4:2:2 12-bit, on the otherhand requires the full 18Gbps.

If 4:2:0 10-bit is fine, no need to cause trouble for yourself, but, if you think you might need 4:2:2 12-bit or 4:4:4 8-bit at some point in the future, it's best to test as soon as you buy, so you can swap if necessary.


----------



## T-Bone

And buy a square trade warranty if you can. I almost never buy warranties. But Amazon had the SquareTrade warranty for 8 bucks. 4 year coverage. I figured it was worth 8 bucks on $170 cable... especially since I'm running it through an attic.

But if it dies in 4 years, I'm sure I'm getting a new cable for free.

-T


----------



## scgt1

So for longer distances has anyone come across anything but the 2 working cables in the OP listing? The monoprice Slim cable and the Amazon Ruipro seems to be the only ones. Currently I'm using a 60' Redmere Monoprice cable to connect my media/daily pc in the office to my Living room tv via our crawlspace under the house. Unfortunately it's an older cable and only transfers 4k/24FPS and isn't HDR capable. I have a SEK-3500 due tomorrow for my 65" Sammy. 

Sure there are a few others with running the extra equipment but for the cost of the cable alone I would rather just stick with a known working cable that can send HDR cleanly vs having cables and signal enhancing equipment considering the cost would be just at or more of just getting a cable and being done with it. LOL


----------



## jong1

scgt1 said:


> So for longer distances has anyone come across anything but the 2 working cables in the OP listing? The monoprice Slim cable and the Amazon Ruipro seems to be the only ones. Currently I'm using a 60' Redmere Monoprice cable to connect my media/daily pc in the office to my Living room tv via our crawlspace under the house. Unfortunately it's an older cable and only transfers 4k/24FPS and isn't HDR capable. I have a SEK-3500 due tomorrow for my 65" Sammy.
> 
> Sure there are a few others with running the extra equipment but for the cost of the cable alone I would rather just stick with a known working cable that can send HDR cleanly vs having cables and signal enhancing equipment considering the cost would be just at or more of just getting a cable and being done with it. LOL


There was a lot of success with Celerity before the report in the OP. Not just individuals, but installers who used several with success. My Celerity cable worked perfectly for a year until I destroyed it in DIY faux pax! . However, as a purely optical cable it is relatively slow to sync compared to hybrids like the Ruipro, so it's hard to recommend now.

Some here have reported success with FIBBR and FIBBR have paid for the ISF to certify their product. But actually user reports are much fewer than for those in this report, so beware. Personally, when I had to pay for my DIY mistake I bought a Ruipro and have not been disappointed.


----------



## TrendSetterX

scgt1 said:


> So for longer distances has anyone come across anything but the 2 working cables in the OP listing? The monoprice Slim cable and the Amazon Ruipro seems to be the only ones. Currently I'm using a 60' Redmere Monoprice cable to connect my media/daily pc in the office to my Living room tv via our crawlspace under the house. Unfortunately it's an older cable and only transfers 4k/24FPS and isn't HDR capable. I have a SEK-3500 due tomorrow for my 65" Sammy.
> 
> Sure there are a few others with running the extra equipment but for the cost of the cable alone I would rather just stick with a known working cable that can send HDR cleanly vs having cables and signal enhancing equipment considering the cost would be just at or more of just getting a cable and being done with it. LOL





jong1 said:


> There was a lot of success with Celerity before the report in the OP. Not just individuals, but installers who used several with success. My Celerity cable worked perfectly for a year until I destroyed it in DIY faux pax! . However, as a purely optical cable it is relatively slow to sync compared to hybrids like the Ruipro, so it's hard to recommend now.
> 
> Some here have reported success with FIBBR and FIBBR have paid for the ISF to certify their product. But actually user reports are much fewer than for those in this report, so beware. Personally, when I had to pay for my DIY mistake I bought a Ruipro and have not been disappointed.


Monoprice continues to claim that their new HOSS cables will do full 18gbs and 4:4:4 and ARC . I wish someone would test and confirm 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467


----------



## T-Bone

TrendSetterX said:


> scgt1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So for longer distances has anyone come across anything but the 2 working cables in the OP listing? The monoprice Slim cable and the Amazon Ruipro seems to be the only ones. Currently I'm using a 60' Redmere Monoprice cable to connect my media/daily pc in the office to my Living room tv via our crawlspace under the house. Unfortunately it's an older cable and only transfers 4k/24FPS and isn't HDR capable. I have a SEK-3500 due tomorrow for my 65" Sammy.
> 
> Sure there are a few others with running the extra equipment but for the cost of the cable alone I would rather just stick with a known working cable that can send HDR cleanly vs having cables and signal enhancing equipment considering the cost would be just at or more of just getting a cable and being done with it. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jong1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a lot of success with Celerity before the report in the OP. Not just individuals, but installers who used several with success. My Celerity cable worked perfectly for a year until I destroyed it in DIY faux pax!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . However, as a purely optical cable it is relatively slow to sync compared to hybrids like the Ruipro, so it's hard to recommend now.
> 
> Some here have reported success with FIBBR and FIBBR have paid for the ISF to certify their product. But actually user reports are much fewer than for those in this report, so beware. Personally, when I had to pay for my DIY mistake I bought a Ruipro and have not been disappointed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Monoprice continues to claim that their new HOSS cables will do full 18gbs and 4:4:4 and ARC . I wish someone would test and confirm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467
Click to expand...

I would be tempted to try it... Great price if it works. Hopefully someone can test it.

But since I blew 40 bucks on a Sewell Silverback cable that does not appear to do 18 gigabits-per-second any more for me, I won't take a chance on the HOSS.

Maybe the replacement Sewell sends me will do 18 gps. I guess I paid 40 bucks for a the second cable. I believe the ruipro will be all I use.

-T


----------



## TrendSetterX

It's worth mentioning that Valens designs the hardware and creates the firmware for a majority of the manufacturers of cables and HDBT devices. The hardware and chipsets have been ready to go for months for full 18gbs 4:4:4 but Valens has been slow to get the software/firmware out. The goal was to have it out so new products could ship by Christmas 2017 but I don't think it came to fruition.


----------



## TrendSetterX

And I just got a notification that the new Pulse-Eight HDBT extender is shipping as of today:







. So this should bode well for chipsets for all manufacturers for cables and extenders...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## undeadhaggis

Otto Pylot said:


> Monster, like AudioQuest, grossly over-sell their cables and charge accordingly. Anything over about 20', if you are wanting to push 4k HDR, is going to be difficult, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. Active cables are really meant for 1080p signals when the length is over 25' (the maximum certifiable length for any cable at present). CL2 is just a fire rating. No cable is 100% guaranteed to work with your particular setup because HDMI chipsets (in source and sink), bend radius, etc all play a part in successful signal transmission. For 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 20' a fiber, or hybrid fiber cable seems to be your best bet. Use of a conduit for in-wall installations is highly recommended because video standards will change and you will need to upgrade your cable. HDBT is a possibility if you are using solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) but again, you need to have the most current HDMI chipsets and no one is guaranteeing that at present.


Thanks Otto Pylot. I've already got conduit in my walls and it's a good thing because this is not the 3rd time I'm having to replace my HDMI cable in the last 6 years. It's really driving me nuts that I can't find a 35' cable that will handle 4K HDR 4:4:4 @ 60Hz.


----------



## scgt1

Hmmm thanks for that link that is pretty tempting. It uses the former redmere tech that my current 60' cable uses and I've only had to replace it one time. Price is great at more then half the cost of the others. If it doesn't work as they state then it's a simple return for refund. Backed by the Lifetime warranty on all their cables it's a no brainer for me anyway. I like how it is ARC capable unlike their slimline expensive cable. Now they don't show the certified logo anywhere but it it works does the certification really matter? No not so much. I think that certification adds to the cost. The companies have to pay to get their product evaluated hence an increase in cost to the consumer and the ability to charge more because of the certification. 

Am I wrong probably lol but common logic and how business works speaks to the above.

I'm game to try the cable out for $70 I'm just not sure the thing is long enough. I'll have to measure what excess I have currently with my 60' as I'm not so sure it's 10' of excess cable which again would knock this cable out.

Well that extender is out. Seems as if an overseas company also from the site.

Available only through select professional installers
Call us on 01202 413 610 or email [email protected] for more information


----------



## Otto Pylot

undeadhaggis said:


> Thanks Otto Pylot. I've already got conduit in my walls and it's a good thing because this is not the 3rd time I'm having to replace my HDMI cable in the last 6 years. It's really driving me nuts that I can't find a 35' cable that will handle 4K HDR 4:4:4 @ 60Hz.


You might want to look at the Ruipro Hybrid Fiber cables. They are getting very positive reviews from users here for pushing 4k HDR over 20'.


----------



## undeadhaggis

kwindrem said:


> I'm in a similar situation with the AVR separated from the TV.
> 
> I had an existing Blue Jeans Cable circa 2008 that worked but replaced it with this one:
> 
> DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K, HDR, 18Gbps
> 
> Skew is 14133 if the link doesn't work.
> 
> I used these Premium Certified (with HDMI sticker) passive cables from the devices to the AVR:
> 
> Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 6ft Black
> 
> Skew: 15428
> 
> I was surprised that an old cable worked but it was very large and used (IIRC 22 gauge wires). But I didn't want problems in the future.
> 
> My LG B6 TV doesn't do Dolby Vision at 60 Hz but that hasn't been an issue for me as nearly all the content I watch is film which is 24 Hz. I keep the sources and AVR from converting frame rates and let the TV handle the native rate for display.


Thanks kwindrem. I tried ordering the Monoprice DynamicView cable you suggested a few weeks ago, but it was out of stock everywhere. It seems to be a very popular cable.


----------



## undeadhaggis

Otto Pylot said:


> You might want to look at the Ruipro Hybrid Fiber cables. They are getting very positive reviews from users here for pushing 4k HDR over 20'.


Otto Pylot - I ordered the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable you suggested. It arrived this morning. I'll let you know if the cable works with my setup.


----------



## undeadhaggis

undeadhaggis said:


> Otto Pylot - I ordered the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable you suggested. It arrived this morning. I'll let you know if the cable works with my setup.


Good news guys! I bought the below RUIPRO cable from Amazon and it solved my problem before and after I pulled it through my conduit inside the walls and ceiling. The expensive "35' Monster Cable UltraHD Black Platinum" cable I had didn't work at all, but this 10 meter (32.8 feet) RUIPRO cable works perfectly! Now I can watch 4K HDR (4:4:4 @ 60Hz) + Dolby Vision + Dolby Atmos and the audio return channel is also working now.

10 meter (32.8 feet) cable that worked for me: "RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Thin Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m"

*Link on Amazon:* *http://********/2B80J94*

Thank you for all the help guys! Now I can FINALLY watch 4K HDR!! 

Here's my setup at home where this RUIPRO cable is working:
AVR: Onkyo TX-RZ920
TV: LG OLED65E7P (supports 4K HDR @60Hz 4:4:4 chroma sampling)
UHD Player: Samsung UBD-KM85C/ZA (Costco's version of the Samsung UBD-K8500)
Cable Distance: TV is ~ 30 feet away from the AVR (requires a 32 foot HDMI cable)
HDMI Cable: RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Thin Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m


----------



## undeadhaggis

undeadhaggis said:


> Good news guys! I bought the below RUIPRO cable from Amazon and it solved my problem before and after I pulled it through my conduit inside the walls and ceiling. The expensive "35' Monster Cable UltraHD Black Platinum" cable I had didn't work at all, but this 10 meter (32.8 feet) RUIPRO cable works perfectly! Now I can watch 4K HDR (4:4:4 @ 60Hz) + Dolby Vision + Dolby Atmos and the audio return channel is also working now.
> 
> 10 meter (32.8 feet) cable that worked for me: "RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Thin Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m"
> 
> *Link on Amazon:* *http://********/2B80J94*
> 
> Thank you for all the help guys! Now I can FINALLY watch 4K HDR!!
> 
> Here's my setup at home where this RUIPRO cable is working:
> AVR: Onkyo TX-RZ920
> TV: LG OLED65E7P (supports 4K HDR @60Hz 4:4:4 chroma sampling)
> UHD Player: Samsung UBD-KM85C/ZA (Costco's version of the Samsung UBD-K8500)
> Cable Distance: TV is ~ 30 feet away from the AVR (requires a 32 foot HDMI cable)
> HDMI Cable: RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Thin Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m


It looks like the Amazon link to the RUIPRO cable got clobbered for some reason.

Here's the Amazon link again to the 10 m (32.8 feet) RUIPRO cable that is working for me: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGDFCSC/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thesportsking&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B06XGDFCSC&linkId=a7a308a00c74ca20b90a4b47cbef31fc


----------



## drhankz

undeadhaggis said:


> It looks like the Amazon link to the RUIPRO cable got clobbered for some reason.
> 
> Here's the Amazon link again to the 10 m (32.8 feet) RUIPRO cable that is working for me:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGDFCSC/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thesportsking&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B06XGDFCSC&linkId=a7a308a00c74ca20b90a4b47cbef31fc


Links for Newbies with very few posts always get garbled by the FORUM


----------



## Tong Chia

+1 on the RUIPRO 10m cable from Amazon mentioned above.

Worked as advertised

Tried 2 other cables with mixed results.
They were the Blue Jeans BJC-1 HDMI passive cable and My Cablemart SA-SHDC-8700 Hybrid Fiber cable.
These two seemed to work only from my Nvidia GTX1080 HDMI output, neither the Oppo UDP203 and Nvidia Shield streamer worked. Symptoms varied from snow to no pictures to a flashing screen.


----------



## tomprero

Does the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable work, if I place it between my receiver and projector? Other inputs like Apple TV 4k are connected to the receiver.

Some claim that active cables have to be connected directly between source and display.


----------



## T-Bone

tomprero said:


> Does the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable work, if I place it between my receiver and projector? Other inputs like Apple TV 4k are connected to the receiver.
> 
> Some claim that active cables have to be connected directly between source and display.


That is a good point. Sometimes connecting in AVR in the chain affects the signal.

I know that my Sewell Silverback passive cable would pass 4K 24p HDR when connected directly from my Xbox One S to projector. But when I put my Onkyo rz920 in the signal chain, I got a black screen on the projector.

Even though the Sewell is not active, just an example of how the electronics can affect the signal.

-T


----------



## kwindrem

tomprero said:


> Does the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable work, if I place it between my receiver and projector? Other inputs like Apple TV 4k are connected to the receiver.
> 
> Some claim that active cables have to be connected directly between source and display.


I have a 35' version of that cable between my Pioneer SC-LX701 AVR and LG OLED65B6P TV and it works fine.

Interestingly, Apple TV 4K direct to the TV through this cable does NOT work. I get no video regardless of ATV's video setup prior to bypassing the AVR.


----------



## Stephen Hopkins

I'd really like to get confirmation on the 50' Hoss and/or DynamicView from Monoprice... at the very least to 4k24 10bit 4:2:2 (running to an Epson HC 4000). My plan is to buy one or the other when I get my HC 4000, and hope Monoprice will ship a SlimRun HDR for the price difference IF it doesn't work as advertised.


----------



## scgt1

Stephen Hopkins said:


> I'd really like to get confirmation on the 50' Hoss and/or DynamicView from Monoprice... at the very least to 4k24 10bit 4:2:2 (running to an Epson HC 4000). My plan is to buy one or the other when I get my HC 4000, and hope Monoprice will ship a SlimRun HDR for the price difference IF it doesn't work as advertised.


Monoprice won't allow a price difference for a cable change. They will either swap directly or have you return the one cable and give you credit to use on the purchase of a different cable. I was just on chat this morning with them over sending my Redmere cable in and getting the Hoss in place of it. My cost would end up being around $41 after tax and shipping but I'll be down while my Redmere would be in transit back to them to get the credit. 

Instead I noticed the Plex app on my tv. Downloaded it and installed on my pc and I'm syncing media now. Saves me audio h*ll that I've been having and it streams at quality and with atmos if the media has it. 

The best part is it was free. LOL 

Now if something ends up coming up and I'm forced to get a different cable I'll still be trying the Hoss out over the $100 more Slim cable if what they claim is true and it will output the same just not certified. The + side is the Hoss is Arc capable where the Slim isn't.


----------



## Stephen Hopkins

I've had luck getting them to send a replacement without return when something doesn't work as-advertised but is already installed in-wall/ceiling... though it's been 2-3 years since I've had to do so and maybe they've changed their policy since then. Still, I guess I could live with the down-time if I did have to do a return... I'll still have my old 1080p cable in the ceiling as well, so I'd just be SOL for 4k during the return/re-ship.

Still, some confirmation or at least anecdotal usage reports on the Hoss or DynamicView would go a long way towards making me more comfortable going with one of those instead of the SlimRun HDR in the first place.


----------



## Otto Pylot

tomprero said:


> Does the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable work, if I place it between my receiver and projector? Other inputs like Apple TV 4k are connected to the receiver.
> 
> Some claim that active cables have to be connected directly between source and display.


As long as you pay attention to the orientation of the cable you shouldn't have any issues. The receiver would be the source and the projector would be the sink. Keep in mind that there is nothing magical about an active cable. They were designed to extend the distance longer that the certifiable 25' for 1080p, and they work very nicely. 4k HDR is a 'nuther matter altogether. The most effective cabling for 4k HDR is a single cable, source to sink, with no switches, extenders, etc in between. You equipment will also play a big factor so what works for one, might not work for you (different version of HDMI chipsets, bend radius, wire gauge, etc).


----------



## azgypsyman3

Stephen Hopkins said:


> I'd really like to get confirmation on the 50' Hoss and/or DynamicView from Monoprice... at the very least to 4k24 10bit 4:2:2 (running to an Epson HC 4000). My plan is to buy one or the other when I get my HC 4000, and hope Monoprice will ship a SlimRun HDR for the price difference IF it doesn't work as advertised.


I purchased the DynamicView 50ft cable from Amazon.com 10/02/2017 and it has been working flawlessly since then. I have a Sony UBP-X800 sending 4K/60 12bit 4:2:2 HDR signals to a Denon X3300W. The DynamicView then connects from the Denon to a JVC DLA-RS400 projector. Many people have had problems trying to sync HDR signals to this projector beyond 30 feet. Amazon doesn't stock this cable anymore but they had it in stock last October when Monoprice didn't.


----------



## Stephen Hopkins

azgypsyman3 said:


> I purchased the DynamicView 50ft cable from Amazon.com 10/02/2017 and it has been working flawlessly since then. I have a Sony UBP-X800 sending 4K/60 12bit 4:2:2 HDR signals to a Denon X3300W. The DynamicView then connects from the Denon to a JVC DLA-RS400 projector. Many people have had problems trying to sync HDR signals to this projector beyond 30 feet. Amazon doesn't stock this cable anymore but they had it in stock last October when Monoprice didn't.


Good to hear. Monoprice is supposed to have it back in stock on 02/02/18, so I'll probably go ahead and order one then... unless I decide to go the more direct (but also requiring more drywall cut/patched) route and drop down to a 35' version that's currently in stock.


----------



## Noah

*PS4 Pro / PSVR cable swap situation*

I have a very specific use case where my only 4k/HDR sources are a PS4 Pro and a gaming PC. Both are about a 35' cable run from my only 4k/HDR display, an LG OLED65B7A. I also have a PSVR and the infamous break out box that doesn't support HDR. With that in mind, I would ideally have a setup something like this:

PS4 Pro --- [3' male-female HDMI] ---> --- [35' male-male HDMI] ---> LG OLED65B7A

This way, I can swap in the cable to PSVR breakout box as needed without extra wear on the PS4 Pro's HDMI port. It's also a real hassle to get to the back of my rack to make a direct swap. My questions are thus:


Am I asking for trouble here? I'm happy to buy as high quality 35-footers as necessary (thinking Blue Jeans Cable 1-Series or Monoprice DynamicView), but I haven't been able to scare up a real high quality short HDMI extension. It seems like short cables are ok for short runs, but what about as part of a longer run?
Am I better off getting a better quality short cable and a female-female coupler instead of a potentially dodgy male-female extension? I feel like there's a lesson in impedance in here somewhere that's out of my depth.


----------



## jamesmil

Unfortunately, my 10m RUIPRO that I purchased in June 2017 has begun to fail. For 6 months it has worked great -- solid consistent lock on any 4KHDR signal, but in the last several weeks I'm seeing many issues: brief small white flashes, screen blanking, and complete loss of sync (white snow). I have tried moving the cable from my AVR out to being directly connected to various source units (Oppo03, Xbox One X, AppleTV 4K, etc), but the experience is consistent, and using an alternate cable with the same sources does not show the same issues, leading me to be pretty confident it is now the cable that is at fault.

Has anyone else seen their cable fail over time?


----------



## T-Bone

jamesmil said:


> Unfortunately, my 10m RUIPRO that I purchased in June 2017 has begun to fail. For 6 months it has worked great -- solid consistent lock on any 4KHDR signal, but in the last several weeks I'm seeing many issues: brief small white flashes, screen blanking, and complete loss of sync (white snow). I have tried moving the cable from my AVR out to being directly connected to various source units (Oppo03, Xbox One X, AppleTV 4K, etc), but the experience is consistent, and using an alternate cable with the same sources does not show the same issues, leading me to be pretty confident it is now the cable that is at fault.
> 
> Has anyone else seen their cable fail over time?


I'm just curious. Are you running this through a hot attic? Asking because my Sewell Silverback passive cable degraded over time. After several months. But I also ran in thru a hot attic. Wondering if heat is the common element.

Although for your RuiPro, the issue is probably the electronics in the HDMI connectors? I have the 12 meter RuiPro cable. I tested it outside the wall... But have not run it through my attic yet.

Sorry I couldn't help. Just providing an extra data point.

-T


----------



## jamesmil

T-Bone said:


> I'm just curious. Are you running this through a hot attic? Asking because my Sewell Silverback passive cable degraded over time. After several months. But I also ran in thru a hot attic. Wondering if heat is the common element.
> 
> Although for your RuiPro, the issue is probably the electronics in the HDMI connectors? I have the 12 meter RuiPro cable. I tested it outside the wall... But have not run it through my attic yet.
> 
> Sorry I couldn't help. Just providing an extra data point.
> 
> -T


No, it runs through conduit in the basement ceiling/mainfloor floor, so I don't think thermals are an issue (though there are HVAC vents nearby, so who knows?) -- I'll look carefully at the cable for signs of melting when I pull it out to replace it -- interesting idea!


----------



## scgt1

If anyone has been on the fence about cost for the cables at Monoprice there is a $50 off $150+ Masterpass promo right now. *50MASTER

*_Note_, must purchase $150 or more & use MasterPass as your payment of method during checkout.
Offer valid while promotion/supplies last. Must use MasterPass Checkout during checkout.

I would jump all over this but it seems Plex has been doing the trick with successfully sending 4K DD across my network directly to my tv. So I no longer need my media pc connected via HDMI cable under my house to the living room. LOL


----------



## jk246

*Testing and the ARC function*

I haven't read the entire 579 (at this time) posts in this thread, although I have read the majority of them, but from what I've read and from Arrow's tests it doesn't appear that ARC is being testing (maybe I overlooked it), so I'm going to bring up the subject of ARC. I am pretty sure that all of the copper cables that are being tested and I know the some but not all of the fiber optic solutions have ARC, and from my own experience the functioning of those conductors is pretty sketchy, especially with the active (Redmere & other equalizer) cables and fiber optic cables that have passive copper conductors for ARC that are generally very small gauge; once you get over 20-25 feet or so, their functioning you may find reliability issues (periodic audio dropouts with higher bandwidth audio such as DD+ and Atmos, while lower bandwidth audio like DD may reliably work. There is work being done to mitigate this by some manufacturers, but I think there is a case for including ARC testing, especially for longer cable lengths.

I understand that people who have projectors really don't care about ARC, but for those who use 4k flat screens the options for good streaming devices are not great if you want the best available streaming surround audio that is supported by Netflix, Vudu and others, which is Dolby Atmos and your 4K TV and AVR aren't right next to each other. 4K Rokus have been plagued with functional and compatibility problems and everytime they fix one issue with a firmware update a new one is created; Nvidia Shields have not been as troublesome but still feel like a work in progress, and Apple 4K TV who decided they were going to disrupt the market and make things 'just work' for people by playing everything in HDR regardless of how the original media was master instead of using the native format to adapt ATV 4K's settings to what was needed, finally decided to update the firmware to work the way it should have in the first place (it still needs some further tweaks) but they still haven't delivered on the promise that they made in September 2017 to update the audio to include Dolby Atmos! What are they waiting for?

This leaves the best, most reliable streamers for 4K... the ones built into most 4K tvs themselves. The one built into my LG OLED works great and the LG also has one of the better 2k-to-4k upconverters I've seen for 2k content.

So that's the heart of my case for including ARC in the testing suite for this thread. It's an important issue to many, and all the great testing that's done by Arrow is for naught if you buy one of the cables that passed all of their tests and find that ARC doesn't work or works but has constant dropouts. As far as I can tell, even the HDMI Premium-Certified Cable testing doesn't test ARC because several of the hologram ID'd cables I've tested don't have working fully workng ARC capabilities.

My apologies if this has already been written up in the thread and I missed it.


----------



## TrendSetterX

jk246 said:


> I haven't read the entire 579 (at this time) posts in this thread, although I have read the majority of them, but from what I've read and from Arrow's tests it doesn't appear that ARC is being testing (maybe I overlooked it), so I'm going to bring up the subject of ARC. I am pretty sure that all of the copper cables that are being tested and I know the some but not all of the fiber optic solutions have ARC, and from my own experience the functioning of those conductors is pretty sketchy, especially with the active (Redmere & other equalizer) cables and fiber optic cables that have passive copper conductors for ARC that are generally very small gauge; once you get over 20-25 feet or so, their functioning you may find reliability issues (periodic audio dropouts with higher bandwidth audio such as DD+ and Atmos, while lower bandwidth audio like DD may reliably work. There is work being done to mitigate this by some manufacturers, but I think there is a case for including ARC testing, especially for longer cable lengths.
> 
> I understand that people who have projectors really don't care about ARC, but for those who use 4k flat screens the options for good streaming devices are not great if you want the best available streaming surround audio that is supported by Netflix, Vudu and others, which is Dolby Atmos and your 4K TV and AVR aren't right next to each other. 4K Rokus have been plagued with functional and compatibility problems and everytime they fix one issue with a firmware update a new one is created; Nvidia Shields have not been as troublesome but still feel like a work in progress, and Apple 4K TV who decided they were going to disrupt the market and make things 'just work' for people by playing everything in HDR regardless of how the original media was master instead of using the native format to adapt ATV 4K's settings to what was needed, finally decided to update the firmware to work the way it should have in the first place (it still needs some further tweaks) but they still haven't delivered on the promise that they made in September 2017 to update the audio to include Dolby Atmos! What are they waiting for?
> 
> This leaves the best, most reliable streamers for 4K... the ones built into most 4K tvs themselves. The one built into my LG OLED works great and the LG also has one of the better 2k-to-4k upconverters I've seen for 2k content.
> 
> So that's the heart of my case for including ARC in the testing suite for this thread. It's an important issue to many, and all the great testing that's done by Arrow is for naught if you buy one of the cables that passed all of their tests and find that ARC doesn't work or works but has constant dropouts. As far as I can tell, even the HDMI Premium-Certified Cable testing doesn't test ARC because several of the hologram ID'd cables I've tested don't have working fully workng ARC capabilities.
> 
> My apologies if this has already been written up in the thread and I missed it.


The Monoprice HOSS is being pushed by Monoprice as doing all of the above plus ARC but no one has independently verified that I know of. Please be our guinea pig


----------



## mjstones

Ruipro 6meter from DirecTV / AppleTV 4K > Denon AVRX-2300W > Vizio M70-E3 fixed all handshake, chroma, and HDR issues and looks awesome! Not a huge distance but none of other 5 HDMI cables I tried worked with the Vizio UHD color setting.


----------



## jk246

TrendSetterX said:


> The Monoprice HOSS is being pushed by Monoprice as doing all of the above plus ARC but no one has independently verified that I know of. Please be our guinea pig


That just might happen, but it might be just a 35' or 40' version (after I finish remeasuring, due to the thickness of the cable it's not so easy dealing with any extra footage) of the HOSS.

I'm returning 2 Cabernet cables to Monoprice tomorrow due to issues with the older RedMere chip in it that has some HDCP issues that are supposed to have been fixed in the newer Spectra7 (formerly RedMere) HT8181 chipset. Also looking at the DynamicView cable which also has the HT8181 chipset in it, although at longer lengths it's 26AWG instead of the HOSS's 24AWG, which might be desirable for the ARC function conductors which are non-active connections.


----------



## jk246

TrendSetterX said:


> The Monoprice HOSS is being pushed by Monoprice as doing all of the above plus ARC but no one has independently verified that I know of. Please be our guinea pig


Ordered 1- monoprice 40' HOSS cable and 1- monoprice 40' DynamicView cable for testing today. Will post back once I receive and have time to run tests.

jk


----------



## Todd G.

jk246 said:


> Orders 1- monoprice 40' HOSS cable and 1- monoprice 40' DynamicView cable for testing today. Will post back once I receive and have time to run tests.
> 
> jk


Interested to hear your results. My basement inspections have passed, but I still need to run all low voltage wiring. I'll run conduit from the A/V rack's location to the TV near the bar as well as to the projector. But I'm looking at a 10 meter cable for the projector and a 15 meter cable for the TV. I'd like to pull cable once and be done, but I'll hopefully be prepared if cables need changed later.

Thanks to all who are testing/using these cables to see which ones yield the most reliable results.


----------



## jk246

Todd G. said:


> I'll run conduit from the A/V rack's location to the TV near the bar as well as to the projector. But I'm looking at a 10 meter cable for the projector and a 15 meter cable for the TV. I'd like to pull cable once and be done, but I'll hopefully be prepared if cables need changed later.


Good call on the conduit runs- you'll thank yourself in 5 years or less. Two rules of running cables:
1. Cables will always get replaced. New technology continues to evolve at an increasingly-faster rate.
2. 'Spare' cables are rarely if ever used unless you already know what equipment they will be used for and have already ordered that equipment (in which case, they are not really 'spare'). 'Spare' cables often don't go where you want them to go because of equipment or room re-arrangement. 'Spare' cables are often obsoleted by new technology before you can utilize them. The one positive thing that can be said about 'spare' cables is that they might be useful to pull the cables you actually need thru your conduit, although a pull cord is cheaper.

If I had my choice, I'd run fiber optic HDMI cables- small, easier to use, and exceptional specs. My entire reason for using copper cables is my need for ARC from my OLED to my AVR. So far, I've not found a fiber optic cable that supports ARC at high enough bit rates to do Dolby Digital + or Dolby Atmos without dropouts occurring.

I expect the monoprice cables should arrive some time next week, will report what I initially find the following weekend.


----------



## navvar

*Issues getting signal on TV with RUIPRO HDMI cable*

I've been trying to get HDR working from my PC to my TV through a receiver for some time now, I've been through a variety of cables such as Monster and RUIPRO, mostly 10 meter cables. 
I was delighted to find this thread in the hopes that I would finally find a cable that actually works - so I went ahead and bought the 10m RUIPRO cable that came out on top on the test, but I've been having issues getting signal to the TV, the display is recognized in Windows 10 but all I get on the TV is a ''No Input'' message. Now I'm starting to think that I'm overlooking something simplistic because I've been fiddling with this for so long.

For reference, I can play 4K HDR movies perfectly fine on my Samsung K8500 through the receiver using the RUIPRO cable.

- PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> RUIPRO 10m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> Onkyo TX-NR747 (HDCP2.2 port) -> Monster 3m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> TV (LG B6) = ''No Input'' on TV.

- Samsung K8500 -> RUIPRO 10m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> Onkyo TX-NR747 (HDCP2.2 port) -> Monster 3m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> TV (LG B6) = No issues whatsoever.

Do you guys have a take on what's wrong here?


----------



## Todd G.

jk246 said:


> Good call on the conduit runs- you'll thank yourself in 5 years or less. Two rules of running cables:
> 1. Cables will always get replaced. New technology continues to evolve at an increasingly-faster rate.
> 2. 'Spare' cables are rarely if ever used unless you already know what equipment they will be used for and have already ordered that equipment (in which case, they are not really 'spare'). 'Spare' cables often don't go where you want them to go because of equipment or room re-arrangement. 'Spare' cables are often obsoleted by new technology before you can utilize them. The one positive thing that can be said about 'spare' cables is that they might be useful to pull the cables you actually need thru your conduit, although a pull cord is cheaper.
> 
> If I had my choice, I'd run fiber optic HDMI cables- small, easier to use, and exceptional specs. My entire reason for using copper cables is my need for ARC from my OLED to my AVR. So far, I've not found a fiber optic cable that supports ARC at high enough bit rates to do Dolby Digital + or Dolby Atmos without dropouts occurring.
> 
> I expect the monoprice cables should arrive some time next week, will report what I initially find the following weekend.


I may not need to be concerned with ARC with the basement system...but it doesn't look like there is a fiber optic cable that solves the issues were seeing either.


----------



## Stephen Hopkins

jk246 said:


> 2. 'Spare' cables are rarely if ever used unless you already know what equipment they will be used for and have already ordered that equipment (in which case, they are not really 'spare'). 'Spare' cables often don't go where you want them to go because of equipment or room re-arrangement. 'Spare' cables are often obsoleted by new technology before you can utilize them. The one positive thing that can be said about 'spare' cables is that they might be useful to pull the cables you actually need thru your conduit, although a pull cord is cheaper.


I'd mostly agree on this... if you're going to run anything "spare", I'd make it several (3+) runs of CAT6/7. It can be used for whatever balun you need down the road or, worst case, as a pull cord. If the 35' DynamicView checks out, I'll be running it and 3 runs of CAT6 inside of a length of pool vacuum hose as conduit.


----------



## navvar

Scratch my last post, I found out that >my< RUIPRO cable only does 30hz (made my initial post somewhat more relevant to this thread as well), not sure if I'll send it back for a new one in the hopes that it may do 60hz, or if I should wait until something more reliable comes around. I can at least watch HDR content now, gaming will come later I suppose.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Stephen Hopkins said:


> I'd mostly agree on this... if you're going to run anything "spare", I'd make it several (3+) runs of CAT6/7. It can be used for whatever balun you need down the road or, worst case, as a pull cord. If the 35' DynamicView checks out, I'll be running it and 3 runs of CAT6 inside of a length of pool vacuum hose as conduit.


Agreed, as long as your extra CAT-6/7 cables are solid core, and not ethernet patch cables. As far as conduit goes, just about any type of "tubing" will do as long as it doesn't have any "ridges" for flexibility. You want the inside to be as smooth as possible. A pull cord is an absolute necessity.


----------



## jk246

navvar said:


> I've been trying to get HDR working from my PC to my TV through a receiver for some time now, I've been through a variety of cables such as Monster and RUIPRO, mostly 10 meter cables.
> I was delighted to find this thread in the hopes that I would finally find a cable that actually works - so I went ahead and bought the 10m RUIPRO cable that came out on top on the test, but I've been having issues getting signal to the TV, the display is recognized in Windows 10 but all I get on the TV is a ''No Input'' message. Now I'm starting to think that I'm overlooking something simplistic because I've been fiddling with this for so long.
> 
> For reference, I can play 4K HDR movies perfectly fine on my Samsung K8500 through the receiver using the RUIPRO cable.
> 
> - PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> RUIPRO 10m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> Onkyo TX-NR747 (HDCP2.2 port) -> Monster 3m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> TV (LG B6) = ''No Input'' on TV.
> 
> - Samsung K8500 -> RUIPRO 10m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> Onkyo TX-NR747 (HDCP2.2 port) -> Monster 3m cable ([email protected] 2160p:4:4:4) -> TV (LG B6) = No issues whatsoever.
> 
> Do you guys have a take on what's wrong here?


Try to divide and conquer: 

Connect PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> RUIPro 10m cable -> TV (LG B6) ... Any Picture?

Connect PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> Moster 3m cable -> TV (LG B6) ... Any Picture? 

I have tested 3x 15m RUIPro cables (1 old/white lettering on connector shells, 2 new/grey lettering on connector shells) and have had no problems with with any of them in the forward direction in any configuration; the only problems I've had were with the reverse audio (ARC function) of these cables, although one other person on AVSforums has reported no problem with ARC. The older RUIPro probably had broken or missing ARC copper conductors, while the newer RUIPro's ARC worked with lower data rate audio, but failed with higher data rates, i.e. Dolby Digital + / Dolby ATMOS.


jk


----------



## jk246

Stephen Hopkins said:


> I'd mostly agree on this... if you're going to run anything "spare", I'd make it several (3+) runs of CAT6/7. It can be used for whatever balun you need down the road or, worst case, as a pull cord. If the 35' DynamicView checks out, I'll be running it and 3 runs of CAT6 inside of a length of pool vacuum hose as conduit.


I have at least 4 Cat6 runs to every wall in my home except bathroom & kitchen, where I only have 2 walls with Cat6... they're all home-runned to my spare bedroom closet where my Cisco 300 switches, UPS, are located, and my router/fiber will be relocated to. There are approx 170 Cat6 total, and an additional approx 30 legacy Cat5's which I retained for IoT/HVAC/sensors/audio over IP/ etc. The Cat5 cables were never run as spares, they were already in use then re-tasked when I moved to Cat6. There are also a handful of 10G cables in strategic locations for various purposes like connecting my editing workstation to high speed/high capacity storage. I also have 6 runs to my balcony for 2 security cameras and 2 waterproof enclosures with Cat6 connectors inside, should I want to use my laptop or watch TV (which is supplied by a bank of IP-connected tuners). 4 more drops to the 4 corners of my home for wireless APs which are dedicated to phones, tablets and the occasional guest's laptop. Two drops for the front door and stairway security cameras and another 2 for the building front security cameras. I don't like sub-switches, so everything is home-run to patchfields and then to the Cisco switches. My voip phones are plugged into the walls and supplied with PoE, and if I decide to move the furniture, I can unplug the phone and plug it in a different socket. All of my computers are fed from 2 time servers with uSec accurate time instead of the normal drift-o-matic Windows time service, so DVR recordings always start and stop at the correct time.
I don't consider any of these cables as 'spares', any more than I would consider a wall power outlet 'spare' when there was nothing plugged into it. I guess I would call them 'Available' connections to the switches. This clearly is out of most people's definition of 'Normal', so I should have been more clear about what I meant by 'spare'. Sorry for that oversight.

If you need to have an inspection, I wouldn't broadcast your use of pool vacuum hose to the inspector, it probably isn't rated for use inside walls, so keep it on the down-low.

The 35' DynamicView should work fine, the 40' Cabernet monoprice cable I tested worked well, the only problem I had with it was some audio interruptions using ARC back to my AVR with my temporary routing, when I looked at it closely I found that it crossed over a plastic AC conduit and when I moved it a couple of inches away from the conduit, the ARC worked fine. The Cabernet cable had an older RedMere chipset in it that some equipment had HDCP issues with, and even though I hadn't experience that yet, I didn't want to risk developing any problems after I'd installed it though the walls, so it got returned and will be replaced with one of the newer cables w the new chipset. Wish I didn't have to use active cables, but at these lengths, they're the only game in town.

jk


----------



## navvar

jk246 said:


> Try to divide and conquer:
> 
> Connect PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> RUIPro 10m cable -> TV (LG B6) ... Any Picture?
> 
> Connect PC (GTX 1080Ti) -> Moster 3m cable -> TV (LG B6) ... Any Picture?
> 
> I have tested 3x 15m RUIPro cables (1 old/white lettering on connector shells, 2 new/grey lettering on connector shells) and have had no problems with with any of them in the forward direction in any configuration; the only problems I've had were with the reverse audio (ARC function) of these cables, although one other person on AVSforums has reported no problem with ARC. The older RUIPro probably had broken or missing ARC copper conductors, while the newer RUIPro's ARC worked with lower data rate audio, but failed with higher data rates, i.e. Dolby Digital + / Dolby ATMOS.
> 
> 
> jk


I'm not sure if you saw the post I wrote after the initial one that you quoted, but I found out that my RUIPro cable only does 30hz at 4k (45 if forced in Nvidia Control Panel, anything over that and it loses signal) so it seems like it's a bandwidth issue, this only seems to be the case with HDCP2.2 ports for some reason though, as I've been using an old 30ft Copartner HDMI cable for [email protected] for gaming prior to delving into the HDR mess, and I've had no issues with that cable connected to the PC port on the receiver (non-HDCP2.2), and it's the same with the new RUIPro cable - [email protected] in a non-HDCP port, [email protected] in a HDCP port. If anyone is able to explain why this is happening I'm all ears.

I did try connecting both cables directly to the TV with only the 3m cable succeeding at 60hz, but making this a permanent solution would mean having to run two HDMI cables from the PC for both picture and sound (or optical from TV to receiver), not to mention having to use two remotes. I would also have to rearrange my whole AV room which is something I want to avoid, hah. I guess I could opt for a booster of some sort but I'd rather have everything as simple as possible.


----------



## jong1

navvar said:


> I'm not sure if you saw the post I wrote after the initial one that you quoted, but I found out that my RUIPro cable only does 30hz at 4k (45 if forced in Nvidia Control Panel, anything over that and it loses signal) so it seems like it's a bandwidth issue, this only seems to be the case with HDCP2.2 ports for some reason though, as I've been using an old 30ft Copartner HDMI cable for [email protected] for gaming prior to delving into the HDR mess, and I've had no issues with that cable connected to the PC port on the receiver (non-HDCP2.2), and it's the same with the new RUIPro cable - [email protected] in a non-HDCP port, [email protected] in a HDCP port. If anyone is able to explain why this is happening I'm all ears.
> 
> I did try connecting both cables directly to the TV with only the 3m cable succeeding at 60hz, but making this a permanent solution would mean having to run two HDMI cables from the PC for both picture and sound (or optical from TV to receiver), not to mention having to use two remotes. I would also have to rearrange my whole AV room which is something I want to avoid, hah. I guess I could opt for a booster of some sort but I'd rather have everything as simple as possible.


The Ruipro should work perfectly right up to 18Gbps. If yours doesn't then get it replaced under warranty for one that does.

A lot of people have had success with that cable, no reason you shouldn't be able to easily get one that works.


----------



## jk246

navvar said:


> I'm not sure if you saw the post I wrote after the initial one that you quoted, but I found out that my RUIPro cable only does 30hz at 4k (45 if forced in Nvidia Control Panel, anything over that and it loses signal) so it seems like it's a bandwidth issue, this only seems to be the case with HDCP2.2 ports for some reason though, as I've been using an old 30ft Copartner HDMI cable for [email protected] for gaming prior to delving into the HDR mess, and I've had no issues with that cable connected to the PC port on the receiver (non-HDCP2.2), and it's the same with the new RUIPro cable - [email protected] in a non-HDCP port, [email protected] in a HDCP port. If anyone is able to explain why this is happening I'm all ears.
> 
> I did try connecting both cables directly to the TV with only the 3m cable succeeding at 60hz, but making this a permanent solution would mean having to run two HDMI cables from the PC for both picture and sound (or optical from TV to receiver), not to mention having to use two remotes. I would also have to rearrange my whole AV room which is something I want to avoid, hah. I guess I could opt for a booster of some sort but I'd rather have everything as simple as possible.


Okay, so you said the Samsung K8500 thru the RUIPro cable works at 60Hz, and the NVidia board board thru the copper HDMI cable works at 60Hz. The copper cable is passive, the RUIPro is active and takes it's power from the source; so it sounds like the RUIPro may actually be working and perhaps the NVidia board is not providing enough voltage or current to operate the electronics in the RUIPro. Maybe you just need one of these:

RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...fl_title_90?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1W38LIN57HDN1

Alternately, I have a few NVidia cards and I know how many connectors they have on the mounting bracket and how sometimes when plugging the cable in it can't fully inserted because the shell can't get past the hole in the chassis slot, so possibly a poor connection.

jk


----------



## SimpleTheater

*50 Foot HDMI that works!*

Finally I got a 50 ft Hdmi cable that works! After trying a Monoprice, Sewell and a QualGear, all of which promised 18.2 Gbps and glorious 10 / 12 bit UHD, I feared that only a $300+ cable would do the trick. While $157 is not cheap, the CSILU HDMI Optic Fiber cable, sold at Amazon worked. My OPPO 203 happily sends whatever format I select to my JVC X550. My Yamaha can now be set to MODE 1. 

The cable is also very thin and lightweight.


----------



## Stephen Hopkins

That's awesome, and competitively priced with the SlimRun AV


----------



## jk246

SimpleTheater said:


> Finally I got a 50 ft Hdmi cable that works! After trying a Monoprice, Sewell and a QualGear, all of which promised 18.2 Gbps and glorious 10 / 12 bit UHD, I feared that only a $300+ cable would do the trick. While $157 is not cheap, the CSILU HDMI Optic Fiber cable, sold at Amazon worked. My OPPO 203 happily sends whatever format I select to my JVC X550. My Yamaha can now be set to MODE 1.
> 
> The cable is also very thin and lightweight.


You know, I looked at that cable previously and I couldn't help but notice that it looked nearly identical to the RUIPro cable with the exception of beveled connector shells; a customer posted a photo of the box it came it, and even the box looked identical, the label has the same logos on it, albeit slightly different size and position, and it looks like it has the same red '2 year warranty' seal on the label from what I can tell in the photo. Was the interior of the box black as well, did yours have 3 velcro cable wraps on the coiled cable with a 1/4" sheet of black foam in the bottom of the box and 2" black foam tubes over the connectors? (Currently listed on Amazon for $175.99)


----------



## SimpleTheater

jk246 said:


> You know, I looked at that cable previously and I couldn't help but notice that it looked nearly identical to the RUIPro cable with the exception of beveled connector shells; a customer posted a photo of the box it came it, and even the box looked identical, the label has the same logos on it, albeit slightly different size and position, and it looks like it has the same red '2 year warranty' seal on the label from what I can tell in the photo. Was the interior of the box black as well, did yours have 3 velcro cable wraps on the coiled cable with a 1/4" sheet of black foam in the bottom of the box and 2" black foam tubes over the connectors? (Currently listed on Amazon for $175.99)


Box was all black, in and out. Only two Velcro wraps, and HDMI connectors were covered in the standard plastic caps.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The CSILU cables are not designed or manufactured by RuiPro - they are a ‘copycat’ design of the Pre ARC version of RuiPro.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## navvar

jk246 said:


> Okay, so you said the Samsung K8500 thru the RUIPro cable works at 60Hz, and the NVidia board board thru the copper HDMI cable works at 60Hz. The copper cable is passive, the RUIPro is active and takes it's power from the source; so it sounds like the RUIPro may actually be working and perhaps the NVidia board is not providing enough voltage or current to operate the electronics in the RUIPro. Maybe you just need one of these:
> 
> RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch)
> (can't post links)
> 
> Alternately, I have a few NVidia cards and I know how many connectors they have on the mounting bracket and how sometimes when plugging the cable in it can't fully inserted because the shell can't get past the hole in the chassis slot, so possibly a poor connection.
> 
> jk


After some more troubleshooting, I found out that 60hz somehow works if I use the Windows Display options to change the Hz, but not when using the Nvidia Control Panel...?!?¿. 

I guess it's mostly all good then, just need to figure out how to get HDR working properly without getting a greyed/washed out picture.

Thanks to the guys who tried to help.


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> The CSILU cables are not designed or manufactured by RuiPro - they are a ‘copycat’ design of the Pre ARC version of RuiPro.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ironic- I've gotten kind of used to asian knock-offs of US products, didn't occur to me that it would be an asian knock-off of asian product.... copied right down to the box it comes in.


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## farsider3000

mjstones said:


> Ruipro 6meter from DirecTV / AppleTV 4K > Denon AVRX-2300W > Vizio M70-E3 fixed all handshake, chroma, and HDR issues and looks awesome! Not a huge distance but none of other 5 HDMI cables I tried worked with the Vizio UHD color setting.


Were any of the other five cables you tested fiber optic cables? It would be great if you could list the other cables that did not work for you. Thanks for sharing your experience with the Ruipro. I use a ruipro as well as an optical cable from Monoprice.


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## logan801

Thanks for everyone?s input on this. You have helped me find a cable that works for my situation. Here?s my setup. LG 4K HDR Dolby vision TV to Denon 4400 via 35ft Monoprice HOSS HDMI. I?ve tested the Xbox X and a PC both passing 4K and the Xbox passing HDR (games playing fine at 60hrz/HDR). The PC settings on the gtx680 are as follows: 4K 2K 4096x2160 (native) Desktop color depth=32bit. Output color=8bpc (this is my only option). Output color format=YCbCr420 (only option). Output dynamic range=limited (only option). Let me know if there?s anything else you want me to try. By the way one cable that did not work was Blackweb 4K HDR in-wall rated 50ft Walmart. On a side note I saw yesterday that Frys electronic has fiber HDMI cables. One was 40ft @$100 another was 75ft @$200 the brand was (+)Fiber.
By the way the ARC does work for me.


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## jk246

*Monoprice cables arrived today*



TrendSetterX said:


> The Monoprice HOSS is being pushed by Monoprice as doing all of the above plus ARC but no one has independently verified that I know of. Please be our guinea pig


40' Hoss & Spectra7 chipset active cables, along with 20', 3', 4' Slim, 3' Slim, and 2' Slim Premium Certified passive cables arrived from Monoprice today. Testing begins tonight.

jk


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## TrendSetterX

jk246 said:


> 40' Hoss & Spectra7 chipset active cables, along with 20', 3', 4' Slim, 3' Slim, and 2' Slim Premium Certified passive cables arrived from Monoprice today. Testing begins tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> jk



So either none of them worked or the first one worked and he hasn’t been able to tear himself away from 18gbs content long enough to report back or try the others


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## Limp Fox

Can anyone recommend a reliable longer run HDMI cable (20'-30') for in-wall applications? I am having my projector mounted and a AV rack built into the wall and the Monoprice 18gbps certified cables are nice, but I find them too thick and am thinking they'll be less than ideal when running from the PJ through the wall plate, in-wall, to the AV cabinet.


I plan to order more cabling, wall plates and speaker wire and would like some input on this. 














Thank you.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Limp Fox said:


> Can anyone recommend a reliable longer run HDMI cable (20'-30') for in-wall applications? I am having my projector mounted and a AV rack built into the wall and the Monoprice 18gbps certified cables are nice, but I find them too thick and am thinking they'll be less than ideal when running from the PJ through the wall plate, in-wall, to the AV cabinet.
> 
> I plan to order more cabling, wall plates and speaker wire and would like some input on this.


Wait to hear back from JK246 two posts above yours.


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## mbahr

*30' length tests?*

I've looked through this entire thread... I cannot find the testing for the "shorter" lengths like 25-35'. Were those every published?

-Mike


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## TrendSetterX

mbahr said:


> I've looked through this entire thread... I cannot find the testing for the "shorter" lengths like 25-35'. Were those every published?


Anything over 20' will have the same problems a 40' cable will have. So if a 40' version of the cable works, then the 25' should work also.


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## mbahr

TrendSetterX said:


> Anything over 20' will have the same problems a 40' cable will have. So if a 40' version of the cable works, then the 25' should work also.


Thanks Trendsetter... I have a 35' monoprice cabernet that I bought last year and need to use now. I was hoping it performed well. I look at the report and see that this length was not tested. I'll have to string it across the floor and test it to see how it performs prior to pulling it through the conduit.

-Mike


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## TheGrendl

i just want to say thanks for this hard work.


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## jk246

TrendSetterX said:


> So either none of them worked or the first one worked and he hasn’t been able to tear himself away from 18gbs content long enough to report back or try the others


C'mon! I have to make sure I've tested them properly and don't give you bad information!!!

Seriously, I have been testing these cables over the past few days and thinking seriously about every factor in my installation that might influence the outcome. A [not so] quick preview though, I got a very unexpected result when I tested the Hoss and the DynamicView Active 40' cables: while both worked well with everything I threw at them (the DolbyVision upgrade for my Denon AVR doesn't come out until next month, fingers crossed) in the 'forward' direction (source => AVR => display), to my surprise, the HOSS cable failed miserably with ARC audio, while the DynamicView cable works perfectly with Dolby Digital+ and Atmos! I also tested a 20' Certified Premium High Speed cable that was on sale for $10.49, and that also worked perfectly, although it's about the same diameter as the HOSS cable, and about the same stiffness; the DynamicView cable is slightly smaller diameter than the HOSS, and noticeably more flexible, but still far from being 'limp'.
Personally if I were to use the HOSS cables permanently, I would ty-wrap them to my rack once they left my AVR to mitigate the possibility that I would accidentally snag it on something while moving the rack (which is on wheels, for easy access for making changes) and snap the connector off while in the AVR- it's that thick and stiff. 

Once I finish testing, I'm returning the HOSS cable to Monoprice- it does nothing the DynamicView cable doesn't do (at least at this 40' length), and it doesn't do ARC (the symptoms are regular interruptions of signal lock at the AVR), at least not for me, and I've been very careful to avoid routing the cable near any AC lines or other possible sources of interference which could affect the ARC signal. I plan to order another DynamicView cable as soon as I get a spare minute.

Preliminary testing of the Certified Premium Ultra Slim High Speed cables in lengths 4' and shorter has revealed no deficiencies so far, although at these lengths, I never encountered any problems with the previous ultra slim 'hi-speed' 2k cables I was using for 4k, so I don't believe the bar is set very high for cables to be capable of 4k at these short lengths.

And one final note- remember that I've only tested one of each type of cable, and statistically speaking, a sample of one is not an accurate method of testing anything; although in the case of the HOSS cable and ARC, this is exactly the same failure I got with 2 ea 40' Cabernet cables (w old Redmere chipset in them) from Monoprice, that I returned... and that reminds me, I still haven't gotten a refund!

jk


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## jk246

mbahr said:


> Thanks Trendsetter... I have a 35' monoprice cabernet that I bought last year and need to use now. I was hoping it performed well. I look at the report and see that this length was not tested. I'll have to string it across the floor and test it to see how it performs prior to pulling it through the conduit.
> 
> -Mike


I tested 2 cabernet 40' cables, and they worked okay feeding from the source to the display, but ARC didn't work with either of them after a couple of weeks of use. Also, the Redmere chips in them have known HDCP issues and it's recommended to replace them with cables using Spectra7 chips, like the Monoprice DynamicView cables use. Monoprice has a lifetime guarantee on them, so you might want to take advantage of being able to returning them and getting a newer, better cable.

jk


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## Otto Pylot

Would not using ARC/CEC at all be an option, and just an optical cable for 5.1 audio from the tv to the receiver? If pq meets your expectations and it's just ARC that has issues, then maybe a compromise would be ok? ARC, at long distances seems to be unreliable in a lot of instances, even for some fiber cables. It's not surprising that you don't have any issues at the shorter distances with just about any cable.


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## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Would not using ARC/CEC at all be an option, and just an optical cable for 5.1 audio from the tv to the receiver? If pq meets your expectations and it's just ARC that has issues, then maybe a compromise would be ok? ARC, at long distances seems to be unreliable in a lot of instances, even for some fiber cables. It's not surprising that you don't have any issues at the shorter distances with just about any cable.


Optical is more lossy and doesn’t support plus or Atmos


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## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Optical is more lossy and doesn’t support plus or Atmos


Optical and ARC support the same formats (some ARC, depending on hardware can support lossy Atmos) so they are basically the same. The only advantage of ARC currently is the elimination of an optical cable. ARC is quite often associated with CEC and that may be where some of the apparent ARC issues arise from. While it is true that ARC may support DD+ in some cases and optical not, most people would be hard pressed to actually hear a discernible difference that would make dealing with ARC issues worth it. ARC, at present can not carry HD Audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc).


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Optical and ARC support the same formats (some ARC, depending on hardware can support lossy Atmos) so they are basically the same. The only advantage of ARC currently is the elimination of an optical cable. ARC is quite often associated with CEC and that may be where some of the apparent ARC issues arise from. While it is true that ARC may support DD+ in some cases and optical not, most people would be hard pressed to actually hear a discernible difference that would make dealing with ARC issues worth it. ARC, at present can not carry HD Audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc).




So you agree then, in its current form, technically, ARC has better audio support. Especially given that we’re on a thread where we’re talking about getting every pixel perfect even if there’s only a single theatrical release that can show it (Long Walk Home).


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> So you agree then, in its current form, technically, ARC has better audio support. Especially given that we’re on a thread where we’re talking about getting every pixel perfect even if there’s only a single theatrical release that can show it (Long Walk Home).


Technically you are correct so yes, I'd agree. But can you actually hear the difference between DD and DD+? I think lossy Atmos would be a better example if one has the hardware to decode it properly. Not all systems do. eARC is supposed to be the end-all when HDMI 2.1 is commercially available on all systems but that too will have its major issues. Mainly because all connected hardware will have to have the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets. If the hassle of getting ARC to work in its current form is worth it to some users then they need to go for it, but it's not going to be easy, especially at distances longer than about 20' for most setups.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically you are correct so yes, I'd agree. But can you actually hear the difference between DD and DD+? I think lossy Atmos would be a better example if one has the hardware to decode it properly. Not all systems do. eARC is supposed to be the end-all when HDMI 2.1 is commercially available on all systems but that too will have its major issues. Mainly because all connected hardware will have to have the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets. If the hassle of getting ARC to work in its current form is worth it to some users then they need to go for it, but it's not going to be easy, especially at distances longer than about 20' for most setups.


I think you just answered your own question Otto. I didn't intend to make decisions for anyone as to what choice they should make, I was trying only to report the results of the capabilities of the cables I tested. For me, ARC capability is a requirement- it may not be for others, and that's their decision to make individually. In my case, I've found that there is no better way to stream 4k from Netflix than with the built-in app in my LG OLED. It works without any issue whatsoever with Netflix and after reading threads for months about the numerous problems with Rokus, Shields, and other streamers, there really is no good alternative to the LG app. Even the Apple TV 4k which I bought when they announced native format support of sites after months of customer complaints, and also said in an interview that Dolby Atmos would be a future software update that to date has not been delivered, and now I hear that Apple is having second thoughts about their implementation instead of simply providing pass-through bitstreamed audio.

I'm sure by now you can tell that Atmos support is an important factor for me, as is Dolby Digital+ support, and the best, most unmolested way to provide this support is through bitstreamed audio. For those whom this is not important to, just ignore this part of the test, but after all, the cable is advertised as supporting ARC, so it's necessary to report my success, or lack thereof in my report. I think it's particularly important because of the HOSS cable not having functioning ARC capability, while the DynamicView cable has been operating flawlessly- that was the headline for me, because if anything, I had expected the exact opposite due to the HOSS cable's slightly heavier conductors, but that was a flawed expectation. I would say to you, if you're using a 40' cable or less, there appears to be no other advantage of the HOSS over the DynamicView, and you might want to hedge your bets and get the DynamicView, in case ARC might become something important to you in the future. The DynamicView cable is also more flexible and easier to run, especially through conduits. The HOSS is definitely stiff enough to stick a marshmallow on the end and toast it in a campfire, if that's important to you, and at this length that's the only advantage it has over the DynamicView; if you need something longer than 40', things might be different, but so far that is uncharted territory.

jk


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## Otto Pylot

^^^ I appreciate your thoughtful explanation without any snarkiness, which seems to be the exception in a lot of discussions like this. ARC is not a big deal for me because my cable runs are not, and will not be any longer than about 10'. A lot of folks just lurk in these forums for information and are not willing to post their questions for reasons known only to them. I try to frame my responses around that so as to maybe enlighten a bit those who are just learning about this mess we call HDMI. I may come back to you later on because the LG OLED is what I am considering purchasing once I get to the point in my media room to add the tv.


----------



## mbahr

jk246 said:


> Monoprice has a lifetime guarantee on them, so you might want to take advantage of being able to returning them and getting a newer, better cable.
> 
> jk


That is an excellent point, which I did not realize. Thank you for your advice!

-Mike


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^ I appreciate your thoughtful explanation without any snarkiness, which seems to be the exception in a lot of discussions like this. ARC is not a big deal for me because my cable runs are not, and will not be any longer than about 10'. A lot of folks just lurk in these forums for information and are not willing to post their questions for reasons known only to them. I try to frame my responses around that so as to maybe enlighten a bit those who are just learning about this mess we call HDMI. I may come back to you later on because the LG OLED is what I am considering purchasing once I get to the point in my media room to add the tv.


Glad I could pay forward for some of the great help I've gotten from various AVS forums. When you're ready, let me know if I can help answer some of your OLED questions, I'll be happy to.

jk


----------



## jk246

mbahr said:


> That is an excellent point, which I did not realize. Thank you for your advice!
> 
> -Mike


Your most welcome...

jk


----------



## Mark the Red

SimpleTheater said:


> Finally I got a 50 ft Hdmi cable that works! After trying a Monoprice, Sewell and a QualGear, all of which promised 18.2 Gbps and glorious 10 / 12 bit UHD, I feared that only a $300+ cable would do the trick. While $157 is not cheap, the CSILU HDMI Optic Fiber cable, sold at Amazon worked. My OPPO 203 happily sends whatever format I select to my JVC X550. My Yamaha can now be set to MODE 1.
> 
> The cable is also very thin and lightweight.


I am about to buy a monoprice fiber optic cable based on the sticky on page 1. You are saying it does not work? I have similar AVR equipment so I don't want to buy $150+ cable if you are having issues with it in past...


----------



## TrendSetterX

Mark the Red said:


> I am about to buy a monoprice fiber optic cable based on the sticky on page 1. You are saying it does not work? I have similar AVR equipment so I don't want to buy $150+ cable if you are having issues with it in past...



I don’t think the OP specified exactly which cable they purchased - just one that was marketed by Monoprice as checking all the boxes. The cables in the original sticky should still be valid however that post is now quite old and the technology has moved forward into a new generation of active chipsets. Take a look at JK’s posts and results a few above yours for more recent results.


----------



## SimpleTheater

Mark the Red said:


> I am about to buy a monoprice fiber optic cable based on the sticky on page 1. You are saying it does not work? I have similar AVR equipment so I don't want to buy $150+ cable if you are having issues with it in past...


Sorry, I didn't get back to you earlier. My issue was specifically with the Monoprice redmere cable, not the one's the OP said passed the tests on the attachment. However, I stayed away from Monoprice because the cable they sold me a year ago came with the promise of delivering 18Gbps, so I figured I wasn't going to trust them a second time.


----------



## jk246

..sorry, this is a cross-post from the 'UHD Blu Ray Long HDMI Cables What Works' thread...



Dave Vaughn said:


> Did someone from Monoprice reach out to you yet? I sent your post to one of my contacts at the company and he said he'd forward it to Customer Service.


Last year I bought a couple of Cabernet 40' active cables from Monoprice. After a short period of time I found that the ARC function of the cables suffered from audio dropouts. I went on the Monoprice website and filled out a Returns request for the 2 cables. I received an email a couple of weeks later saying that someone from the Returns dept would contact me. After not hearing from them for some time I tried several more times to reach out to the Returns department and got no further response.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread, and Dave Vaughn saw my post and reached out to someone at Monoprice and I got a reply a couple of days later (thank you Dave). I packaged up the cables and shipped them back to Monoprice and received confirmation that they received them on February 2. Since then I've been waiting to hear from Monoprice or see the refund applied to my credit card, and nothing happened. I called up customer service today, and what I was told has made me resolve to never do business with this company again.

The customer service rep told me that I had received the store credit that I requested and that Monoprice had sent me an email notifying me of that (I requested a refund, not a store credit, and I never received any email from Monoprice; (during the conversation she told me several times I had requested a store credit in spite of the fact that I kept telling her I had not). When I asked why I had not received a refund, she said she would have to talk to someone to find out. When she returned, she told me that I had not requested a refund within 30 days (which was in fact due to their lack of response to my initial requests), and that after 30 days their "lifetime guarantee" only covers replacing the cable (of their other two active cables, I tested a HOSS cable which had no ARC audio, and a DynamicView cable which had similar audio dropouts which were not apparent for the first week or two I had them, possibly due to aging, or possibly due to them being short duration, long interval between events... sometimes upwards of a minute between dropouts- since then I've gone back to a 20' passive cable that has worked perfectly for a month without a blip, with everything I've thrown at it). 

So, apparently, the "lifetime guarantee" gives me the option to replace one cable that does not perform one of it's advertised functions (the very one I bought the cable for in the first place) with either of two other cables that likewise do not perform the same advertised function.

Oh, and I was told that they had not received any of my emails, even though they somehow were able to email me last year and tell me that someone would be contacting me soon!!! So, it appears that the email works in both directions, but only when Monoprice wants it to.

By now I guess you can figure out why I'm a little bit 'chaffed'. Some of these cables didn't show any sign of problems for a week or two, and 4 cables (2 Cabernets, 1 Hoss, and 1 DymamicView)- 4 out of 4 cables all failed the ARC function; throw this in with what appears to be stalling their response to get me past the 30 day refund period, and 'store credit' (I don't even have an account there, I used guest checkout) and the runaround... I'm done with them.

Caveat Emptor...


----------



## mbahr

jk246 said:


> Your most welcome...
> 
> jk


Hi there, just providing an update. 

On Feb 24th I wrote monoprice and asked for store credit for my purchase made in 3rd quarter 2016, based on the results of these tests and the lifetime warranty. The reply e-mail was chipper and said I would hear back soon. I replied several days later and never heard a peep. I tried online chat three times today, with the first two times having the connection dropped. Lucky 3rd time established a sessions with an agent, who after 20 minutes of me talking about a refund / store credit and she agreeing, then nearly was successful in putting it through for a replacement of the same cable. I escalated and finally spoke to someone who said he would convert the replacement to a return for store credit, even though the sale was so long ago. 

So I am now waiting for the RMA # and will attempt to return the cable and use store credit to get the (must more expensive) cable that passed the testing. 

I wouldn't have been able to navigate all of this without this thoroughly handy thread! Thank you to everyone that contributes here!

-Mike


----------



## mbahr

mbahr said:


> Hi there, just providing an update.
> 
> On Feb 24th I wrote monoprice and asked for store credit for my purchase made in 3rd quarter 2016, based on the results of these tests and the lifetime warranty. The reply e-mail was chipper and said I would hear back soon. I replied several days later and never heard a peep. I tried online chat three times today, with the first two times having the connection dropped. Lucky 3rd time established a sessions with an agent, who after 20 minutes of me talking about a refund / store credit and she agreeing, then nearly was successful in putting it through for a replacement of the same cable. I escalated and finally spoke to someone who said he would convert the replacement to a return for store credit, even though the sale was so long ago.
> 
> So I am now waiting for the RMA # and will attempt to return the cable and use store credit to get the (must more expensive) cable that passed the testing.
> 
> I wouldn't have been able to navigate all of this without this thoroughly handy thread! Thank you to everyone that contributes here!
> 
> -Mike


Hi all,

A new update.

I have now received the RMA and am hopeful that they actually followed through with provide store credit when I return my cabernet cable.

My cable length is 30' and I require the ARC. They were pushing the Hoss cable, which I see did not work for you. Are you confident that the DynamicView cable works well for both video and Arc? If not, do I move away from monoprice slimrun and toward ruipro to get full 4K HDR w/ arc?

Your thoughts?

-Mike


----------



## jk246

mbahr said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A new update.
> 
> I have now received the RMA and am hopeful that they actually followed through with provide store credit when I return my cabernet cable.
> 
> My cable length is 30' and I require the ARC. They were pushing the Hoss cable, which I see did not work for you. Are you confident that the DynamicView cable works well for both video and Arc? If not, do I move away from monoprice slimrun and toward ruipro to get full 4K HDR w/ arc?
> 
> Your thoughts?
> 
> -Mike


Mike,

I think your question was directed to me- a couple of posts back I mentioned the trouble I was having returning some cables to Monoprice, and in the middle of that post I included this:



> (of their other two active cables, I tested a HOSS cable which had no ARC audio, and a DynamicView cable which had similar audio dropouts which were not apparent for the first week or two I had them, possibly due to aging, or possibly due to them being short duration, long interval between events... sometimes upwards of a minute between dropouts- since then I've gone back to a 20' passive cable that has worked perfectly for a month without a blip, with everything I've thrown at it).


I don't blame you if you didn't see it, it was kind of thrown in there in the middle of another sentence, sorry about that.

Yes, the HOSS cable had ZERO ARC function from the start- I don't know if it was a faulty manufacturing problem, or if it's poor design. The DynamicView cable worked in the beginning, then I started noticing intermittent dropouts in ARC after maybe two weeks- at first, when I was testing with a Dolby Digital+ /HDR source, and then I noticed it with Dolby 5.1 audio from my LG C7 OLED off-the-air broadcast. It seems to follow a pattern of the higher the bandwidth (as in Dolby Digital +, DTS-X, Dolby Atmos) and louder/more constant the program material, the shorter the duration between audio dropouts... ranging from once every second or two, to very intermittent and irregular periods in the minutes range... even on the lowest bandwidth audio. I am sending both cables back tomorrow for a refund, and currently have a 20' passive Certified Premium 26 AWG cable that I bought at the same time from Monoprice because it was on sale for $10 (I think they're normally $15) that's working perfectly with everything video- and audio-wise that I've thrown at it including 4k discs 4:4:4 Dolby Vision, HDR10, Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, all 7-2-4.

Unfortunately I have to run the cable across the floor with an anti-trip cover over it which isn't a long term solution, but until I find a cable that will do ARC, it will have to do. By the way, I bought 2 of these 20 foot cables because of the sale, and I tried butting them together with a Female-to-Female HDMI connector- No Go.

So, I've had problems with both the RedMere and DynamicView chipsets (both made by RedMere). There are far fewer people using ARC, so even reading the reviews, it's very difficult to tell whether a positive review means anything more than someone using the forward aspect of the cable (source-to-display) vs the reverse (ARC- which is a totally passive connection with no cable equalization).

My receiver is a relatively older design (Denon AVR-X7200WA), so it's crossed my mind that maybe the older HDMI chipset, even though it's not as old as the design of the X7200 because the HDMI board was updated a year or two after the AVR was introduced, might be less tolerant of cable transmission line aberrations than more recent AVR's; something I'm still pondering.

If you return cables to Monoprice within 30 days, they should refund your money (so I've been told anyways), so you could just give it a shot and do a lot of testing before the 30 days runs out. If you do, I'd be very interested in hearing what your results are. If you have any further questions let me know, and I'll help any way I can.

jk


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ just for a little clarification, daisy-chaining HDMI cables is not recommended, as you have discovered. In fact, I've seen some Monoprice cables, albeit in small print, that mentions that little fact.

The ARC issue will probably not be resolved until HDMI 2.1 is fully implemented, with the newest chipsets. eARC is supposed to resolve those issues but only time will tell. However, the answer will be new chipsets, not an HDMI cable.

Yes, do thoroughly test your cables before installation and keep that return policy time frame in mind. Some may work. It's all trial and error at this point in time.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ just for a little clarification, daisy-chaining HDMI cables is not recommended, as you have discovered. In fact, I've seen some Monoprice cables, albeit in small print, that mentions that little fact.
> 
> The ARC issue will probably not be resolved until HDMI 2.1 is fully implemented, with the newest chipsets. eARC is supposed to resolve those issues but only time will tell. However, the answer will be new chipsets, not an HDMI cable.
> 
> Yes, do thoroughly test your cables before installation and keep that return policy time frame in mind. Some may work. It's all trial and error at this point in time.


It was a science experiment Otto, curious to see what the outcome would be with these cables. I have in fact found 2 old cables I had in my junk box that were manufactured before 4k was commercially available, were no-name generics, randomly picked and totally non-certified and that added up to about 16 feet when joined together with that same Female-to-Female adapter worked just fine, even when playing HDR 4:4:4 UHD discs w/ Dolby Atmos, and yes, I knew before I tried that, that it is not recommended; but haven't you ever, just for the sheer fun of it, tried something that wasn't supposed to be done just to see what would happen? 

I most definitely agree with 'It's all trial and error at this point in time'; 2 Cabernets, 1 HOSS, 1 DynamicView, (not to mention 3 fiber-based cables) all returned due to ARC problems.

jk


----------



## Hank

*Suggestion to separate tests to With ARC and Without ARC*

I've read a lot, but not nearly all, of the posts in this thread and understand what a crap shoot it is to find a long cable that reliably handles ARC. Since there are many folks that do not require ARC, how about dividing tests/results into:
1. Long cables that reliably pass ARC.
2. Long cables that don't pass ARC, but handle source to sink video flawlessly.
I'm interested in group 2 and want to find a reliable video cable of ~35 - 40 ft to connect my OPPO 203 to my JVC projector.
Sorry if this has been suggested before and I missed it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

For Group 2, at 35'-40', your best bet would be fiber or hybrid fiber (Ruipro) run in a conduit. Not a 100% guarantee but pretty close to that for most folks.


----------



## TrendSetterX

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Hank said:


> I've read a lot, but not nearly all, of the posts in this thread and understand what a crap shoot it is to find a long cable that reliably handles ARC. Since there are many folks that do not require ARC, how about dividing tests/results into:
> 1. Long cables that reliably pass ARC.
> 2. Long cables that don't pass ARC, but handle source to sink video flawlessly.
> I'm interested in group 2 and want to find a reliable video cable of ~35 - 40 ft to connect my OPPO 203 to my JVC projector.
> Sorry if this has been suggested before and I missed it.


Or the new generation of HDBaseT active sender receivers (baluns) running the latest firmware from Valens.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> For Group 2, at 35'-40', your best bet would be fiber or hybrid fiber (Ruipro) run in a conduit. Not a 100% guarantee but pretty close to that for most folks.


FYI, the 3 fiber cables I mentioned above that failed to do ARC were all RUIpro cables (1 of the original gen that had ARC and 2 of the 2nd gen that had ARC) with either no ARC or intermittent dropouts. A few others have had different results.

jk


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> FYI, the 3 fiber cables I mentioned above that failed to do ARC were all RUIpro cables (1 of the original gen that had ARC and 2 of the 2nd gen that had ARC) with either no ARC or intermittent dropouts. A few others have had different results.
> 
> jk


I think group 2 was "long cables that don't pass ARC" so the implication was that he wasn't concerned with ARC but did want the video to work.


----------



## SUperEd007

ARROW-AV said:


> *TEST REPORTS | LONG HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*​
> 
> HDMI version 2.0b, which is the currently industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support.
> 
> But a great many medium to long length HDMI cables that claim to fully support this in reality do not.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to provide a resource database, including lookup tables, with the results of comprehensive evaluation and testing of HDMI cables to reveal which cables will actually reliably and consistently pass 18 Gbps bandwidth video signals and hence properly support HDMI 2.0b video content. Where you can rest assured that these will every time fully and properly support HDMI 2.0b / 18 Gbps video signals; and hence if you use these cables you can kiss goodbye to all of your HDMI headaches and problems, for good.
> 
> 
> *Please find attached to this post:
> 
> (1) HDMI Cables Performance Evaluation & Testing Report # 1; this relates to 50ft/15m+ length cables; and is self-explanatory.
> 
> N.B. Report #2 will focus on HDMI cables with lengths 20ft/6m - 30ft/9m; which will be added here as and when it is completed.
> **
> Enjoy!
> *


How come the popular Blue Jeans cable was not tested


----------



## SUperEd007

ARROW-AV said:


> *TEST REPORTS | LONG HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*​
> 
> HDMI version 2.0b, which is the currently industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support.
> 
> But a great many medium to long length HDMI cables that claim to fully support this in reality do not.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to provide a resource database, including lookup tables, with the results of comprehensive evaluation and testing of HDMI cables to reveal which cables will actually reliably and consistently pass 18 Gbps bandwidth video signals and hence properly support HDMI 2.0b video content. Where you can rest assured that these will every time fully and properly support HDMI 2.0b / 18 Gbps video signals; and hence if you use these cables you can kiss goodbye to all of your HDMI headaches and problems, for good.
> 
> 
> 
> *Please find attached to this post:
> 
> (1) HDMI Cables Performance Evaluation & Testing Report # 1; this relates to 50ft/15m+ length cables; and is self-explanatory.
> 
> N.B. Report #2 will focus on HDMI cables with lengths 20ft/6m - 30ft/9m; which will be added here as and when it is completed.
> **
> Enjoy!
> *


Was there any test for the standard cables at 5 to 6 feet.. Curious to which passes the test...


----------



## TrendSetterX

SUperEd007 said:


> Was there any test for the standard cables at 5 to 6 feet.. Curious to which passes the test...




Any certified cable should pass the test at that short of a distance


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Around 20' or so seems to be where folks start having issues for 4k HDR. Lots of various factors contribute to that.


----------



## giomania

TrendSetterX said:


> Or the new generation of HDBaseT active sender receivers (baluns) running the latest firmware from Valens.




How do you know which makes and models have this? I have the Atlona HDR-EX-100-CEA KIT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> I think group 2 was "long cables that don't pass ARC" so the implication was that he wasn't concerned with ARC but did want the video to work.


Thanks for the clarification Otto, skimmed over a few posts and didn't connect the "2" with the previous post. If ARC is eliminated from the context, then I have not had any other problems with the RUIPro cables.

jk


----------



## TrendSetterX

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



giomania said:


> How do you know which makes and models have this? I have the Atlona HDR-EX-100-CEA KIT
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Generally I’d say any new products released since February of 18. Anything older than that definitely won’t do everything plus ARC.


----------



## giomania

So last month? Not February 2017?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## TrendSetterX

giomania said:


> So last month? Not February 2017?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Correct.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> Thanks for the clarification Otto, skimmed over a few posts and didn't connect the "2" with the previous post. If ARC is eliminated from the context, then I have not had any other problems with the RUIPro cables.
> 
> jk


No problem. I too read faster than my brain absorbs sometimes. A consequence of old age I guess...


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> So last month? Not February 2017?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


HDMI 2.1 was finally ratified around October of November of last year and the specs were sent to the chipmakers.


----------



## mbahr

jk246 said:


> Mike,
> 
> If you return cables to Monoprice within 30 days, they should refund your money (so I've been told anyways), so you could just give it a shot and do a lot of testing before the 30 days runs out. If you do, I'd be very interested in hearing what your results are. If you have any further questions let me know, and I'll help any way I can.
> 
> jk


Hi JK,

I find it odd that ARC would stop working after some amount of time. That troubles me. I was considering the dynamicview cables and am glad you responded. I was also considering the monoprice slimrun. Monoproice has said that they will give me store credit for a cable I bought more than a year ago. That's a good sign! However, I decided to get the Ruipro instead and will use the monoprice credit for something else.

This is all about future proofing for me... I am currently running a Vizio M65-D0, Marantz SR5012, and variety of HD or Blueray sources. The only 4K content I currently have is from the apps within the Vizio So I need ARC to work, and I want the reverse UHD / HDR stuff working when I get a 4K player connected through the SR5012.

It's all a lot more complicated than it needs to be, isn't it?

I'm very grateful for this thread, and for everyone's help... Fingers crossed my Ruipro will work!

-Mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

mbahr said:


> Hi JK,
> 
> I find it odd that ARC would stop working after some amount of time. That troubles me. I was considering the dynamicview cables and am glad you responded. I was also considering the monoprice slimrun. Monoproice has said that they will give me store credit for a cable I bought more than a year ago. That's a good sign! However, I decided to get the Ruipro instead and will use the monoprice credit for something else.
> 
> This is all about future proofing for me... I am currently running a Vizio M65-D0, Marantz SR5012, and variety of HD or Blueray sources. The only 4K content I currently have is from the apps within the Vizio So I need ARC to work, and I want the reverse UHD / HDR stuff working when I get a 4K player connected through the SR5012.
> 
> It's all a lot more complicated than it needs to be, isn't it?
> 
> I'm very grateful for this thread, and for everyone's help... Fingers crossed my Ruipro will work!
> 
> -Mike


The only way to truly "future proof" your cabling is to install your cable(s) in a conduit if you have long runs. Cable requirements are going to change, probably sooner than later with the advent of HDMI 2.1 in newer commercial devices, so you will be swapping out cables at one time or another. eARC is supposed to improve ARC by using the ethernet channel in HDMI cables because HDMI with ethernet was an HDMI protocol that was never embraced by the device mfrs. However, it's more than just the cable (data pipe). The source and sink HDMI chipsets will have to be current with the new chipsets which in all likelihood will involve purchasing new equipment, unless the particular mfr has planned ahead for a firmware upgrade.

Ruipro cables seem to have the best track record so far (either fiber or hybrid fiber) so you probably can't go wrong with them, at least at this point in time. Distance will still be an issue for the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" that will be required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1. Hopefully by then the 3M maximum distance will have been worked out with some sort of active termination or cable design.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> The only way to truly "future proof" your cabling is to install your cable(s) in a conduit if you have long runs. Cable requirements are going to change, probably sooner than later with the advent of HDMI 2.1 in newer commercial devices, so you will be swapping out cables at one time or another. eARC is supposed to improve ARC by using the ethernet channel in HDMI cables because HDMI with ethernet was an HDMI protocol that was never embraced by the device mfrs. However, it's more than just the cable (data pipe). The source and sink HDMI chipsets will have to be current with the new chipsets which in all likelihood will involve purchasing new equipment, unless the particular mfr has planned ahead for a firmware upgrade.
> 
> Ruipro cables seem to have the best track record so far (either fiber or hybrid fiber) so you probably can't go wrong with them, at least at this point in time. Distance will still be an issue for the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" that will be required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1. Hopefully by then the 3M maximum distance will have been worked out with some sort of active termination or cable design.


...and if you rush to buy an early 2.1 cable, before 2.1 displays and sources are well established, to get that mythical future proofing, I can almost guarantee your attempts will fail!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> ...and if you rush to buy an early 2.1 cable, before 2.1 displays and sources are well established, to get that mythical future proofing, I can almost guarantee your attempts will fail!


I agree 100%. It's all going to be smoke and mirrors for the next year and-a-half at least. If folks think HDMI 2.0b was bad, just wait. Hence the use of conduit for easy cable swapping/upgrading.


----------



## mbahr

jong1 said:


> ...and if you rush to buy an early 2.1 cable, before 2.1 displays and sources are well established, to get that mythical future proofing, I can almost guarantee your attempts will fail!


"Drat you Red Baron!"

(testing your age / reference)

-Mike


----------



## mbahr

Otto Pylot said:


> The only way to truly "future proof" your cabling is to install your cable(s) in a conduit if you have long runs.


I had installed some PVC 15 years ago. It's full of cable now. I've been avoiding pulling new stuff as it will require pulling it all out and re-pulling it as one mass. Although I can probably remove the component or VGA cable these days.

My set up is such that the devices are less than 10 feet away across the floor, but there are many twists and turns to get up to the PVC and bend around some corners on the horizontal run. So I need 25' and I bought 30' to provide loops at each end. 

I do hope the Ruipro works. I'm spending much more than I think is reasonable to be sure my current equipment can work as advertised with a near-future UHD Blueray player. 



-Mike


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI 2.1 was finally ratified around October of November of last year and the specs were sent to the chipmakers.


That's only part of it. They haven't even finished the compliance test spec yet. 

https://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=152


> The HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) will be published *in stages during Q1-Q3 2018*, and HDMI Adopters will be notified when it is available.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mbahr said:


> I had installed some PVC 15 years ago. It's full of cable now. I've been avoiding pulling new stuff as it will require pulling it all out and re-pulling it as one mass. Although I can probably remove the component or VGA cable these days.
> 
> My set up is such that the devices are less than 10 feet away across the floor, but there are many twists and turns to get up to the PVC and bend around some corners on the horizontal run. So I need 25' and I bought 30' to provide loops at each end.
> 
> I do hope the Ruipro works. I'm spending much more than I think is reasonable to be sure my current equipment can work as advertised with a near-future UHD Blueray player.
> 
> 
> 
> -Mike


Service loops for your cabling are always a good idea. If you do fish the cable thru your conduit just be mindful of the bend radius.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> That's only part of it. They haven't even finished the compliance test spec yet.
> 
> https://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=152


Yep. I can't wait to see the cable mfr claims and how they will be worded to give the consumer the impression that their particular brand of cable is "certified", "tested", or "meets HDMI 2.1 specifications". Gonna be a mess fer sure. Those mfrs who do adhere to ATC certification and provide a CoA will probably charge a premium for their cables.


----------



## jk246

mbahr said:


> Hi JK,
> 
> I find it odd that ARC would stop working after some amount of time. That troubles me. I was considering the dynamicview cables and am glad you responded.
> I'm very grateful for this thread, and for everyone's help... Fingers crossed my Ruipro will work!
> 
> -Mike


...Just to be clear, the context of the word "failed" would mean "failed to work properly" (in this case, because it began having numerous audio dropouts), not to be confused with "stop working" in the sense that no audio at all was received at the AVR. The only cables I've had with no ARC audio at all were the Monoprice HOSS cable and one of the earlier RUIPro fiber cables.




mbahr said:


> I do hope the Ruipro works. I'm spending much more than I think is reasonable to be sure my current equipment can work as advertised with a near-future UHD Blueray player.
> 
> 
> 
> -Mike


Please report back here after you have tried your RUIPro... I have tested 3- one, as mentioned above had no ARC audio, and the other two had audio dropouts.

As for 8K, we're a long way off from having widespread 8K in the home theater. The standards for much of the media and infrastructure are only on the radar at this point, it will be some time before there's any significant software available, films are mostly scanned in 4k or less, cinema cameras are few and very expensive, production and editing facilities haven't scaled up, streaming bandwidth be more of an issue and streaming facilities like Netflix are now sometimes reaching the limit of how much 4k they can deliver in during peak viewing periods. And then there's this- if you get a 65" 8k set you'll have to sit roughly 5' away from it to truely enjoy the extra resolution from it, but nobody's going to do that, so you're going to need a bigger screen. Now, I have a 65" OLED and for me there's nothing better on the market right now, and the only thing that would be better that's on the market right now is a 75" OLED but that $10k-$15k price tag brings tears to my eyes and I'm not without the means to buy it, but I earned every dollar I own, and I know how much work and sacrifice went into earning that money, but the price-to-reward ratio is definitely a difficult pill to swallow. Now scale that up to 8k x $ per square inch of a reasonably sized screen, and I don't see that happening at a fiscally affordable price point for a few more years or more unless there's some quantum leap forward in physics and display technology. Don't get me wrong, it's great to be thinking about future-proofing your current equipment purchases, but I don't see 8k penetrating the home theater market by this time next year, and likely not the year after that; but I'd embrace it and be happy to be proven wrong, but unless your a billionaire, I don't see it happening. Just my opinion, YMMV.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Why are we even wasting time talking about 8k? 4K is still very problematic and once HDMI 2.1 starts to rear its ugly head, the issues will compound.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Why are we even wasting time talking about 8k? 4K is still very problematic and once HDMI 2.1 starts to rear its ugly head, the issues will compound.


My point, exactly. It's a long way off.


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## Hank

Otto Pylot said:


> For Group 2, at 35'-40', your best bet would be fiber or hybrid fiber (Ruipro) run in a conduit. Not a 100% guarantee but pretty close to that for most folks.


This is not new construction, so conduit is not a possibility - not tearing into multiple walls to install conduit.


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## jong1

If you are just running cables on the surface that's obviously fine too. The point is, if you plan on tearing into walls, to hide the cables, it's always worthwhile putting a little extra effort into burying conduit instead of just the cable. Then, in case of cable failure or system upgrades, you can swap things without tearing up the walls again.


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## Hank

NM


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## jong1

Hank said:


> Not laying cables on the walls - that would be cosmetically unacceptable. Installing cable with the correct equipment does little damage to walls. Ripping several wall surfaces open to lay conduit in means lots of wall repair.


Your call, of course.

Experience says, though,:

-be VERY through in your pre-installation testing. Make sure you test at all cable bitrates you think you will ever need, ideally up to 18Gbps, and, better, with all the actual devices you plan on using
- be prepared for a lot more redecorating!

No today is trying to force anything on you here or getting any kickbacks from the sale of conduit! But, long distance HDMI 2.0 is a lot closer to the edge of what is possible than was true with HD. Cables DO fail, either at the start or after a while. Not often, but they do. And a lot of people test only with relatively low bitrate sources (including 24fps UHD) and later have problems when they hook up a true 18Gbps source.

And no long cable you buy today will work for all HDMI 2.1 bitrates (up to 48Gbps). Just be aware.


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## TrendSetterX

jong1 said:


> And no long cable you buy today will work for all HDMI 2.1 bitrates (up to 48Gbps). Just be aware.


Cat7 is rated for 40Gbps uncompressed. Latest gem of HDBASET is doing amazing things with compression on Cst5E. Running Cat7 and upgrading the processing at either end of the cable as needs/tech advance will be as future proof as you can get at this point.


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## Otto Pylot

Hank said:


> This is not new construction, so conduit is not a possibility - not tearing into multiple walls to install conduit.


Understood. It is possible to run conduit down an inside wall without opening up the walls, at least on a single story home because I've done it. The cable can be cleanly tacked up in the attic space and then run in conduit down the walls. Most cable installations will need to be replaced/upgraded in the future as mentioned above so it's best to think about it and plan ahead. Bend radius is critical and it is so much easier to control that with some sort of conduit than not. Even current Ruipro cables may not be up to the task as connection requirements change, and they will.


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## jong1

TrendSetterX said:


> Cat7 is rated for 40Gbps uncompressed. Latest gem of HDBASET is doing amazing things with compression on Cst5E. Running Cat7 and upgrading the processing at either end of the cable as needs/tech advance will be as future proof as you can get at this point.


Well it's worth a punt, if you simply have to I guess. I still wouldn't be over confident and would expect to have to wait some considerable time after other options are available before it's all sorted. At least that's how 2.0 worked out.


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## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Cat7 is rated for 40Gbps uncompressed. Latest gem of HDBASET is doing amazing things with compression on Cst5E. Running Cat7 and upgrading the processing at either end of the cable as needs/tech advance will be as future proof as you can get at this point.


What some of us had recommended in the past for "future proofing" was to run solid core CAT-6, 6a, or 7 (non-CCS and not CAT ethernet patch cable) in a conduit with a pull string. Using the conduit is the ONLY way to future proof cabling and with the use of solid core CAT-6, 6a, or even 7 that would give your cable installation longer life because all one would need to do, at least for the time being, is upgrade the active HDBT termination points with the current HDMI chipsets once they became available. You could also run some coax and even a hybrid fiber cable within the same conduit to give you easy "upgradeability" for your connection needs. If running conduit is not an option, as the above poster indicates, then your choices are severely limited. All he can do then is run a hybrid fiber cable like Ruipro and hope that the bend radius is not too severe or the connector ends get damaged during the fishing process. Even if the cable is successfully installed, there's no way of telling if the bend radius will affect the cable over time if it can not be controlled. Once folks attempt to start pushing 48Gbps over 10' or so, cable installation will not be very forgiving at all on how the cable is installed.


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## AVSynthesis

I have two basic questions (a beginner enthusiast here):

1. I am planning a projector/screen setup (no TV) but I would like to be able to do Atoms (7.1.4). Is the ARC or eARC feature of the HDMI cable relevant to this (in other words, is it only important if you run streaming apps from your TV or display itself, otherwise it doesn't matter)?

2. I will have a Sony VPL-HW45ES projector, which is 1080 not 4K, but my run is about 50 feet. Should I go with the RuiPro fiberoptic cable, or would a regular High Speed HDMI do (would I get a better video quality anyway with fiber even at 1080) (what about better audio for Atmos)? Any suggestions for an HDMI cable?

Thanks

(P.S. Speakers are B&W 703s, AVR is Marantz 7012 or 8012)


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## Otto Pylot

eARC will not be available until the HDMI 2.1 chipsets are fully integrated into your devices (tv, receiver, blu-ray player etc). It's the chipsets for the most part that determine the protocols, not the cable. eARC will use the ethernet channel of HDMI which is not currently being used by the device mfrs, even though cable mfrs like to include it as part of their cable specifications.

The only real advantage of ARC is the elimination of the optical audio cable. If your are using the tv's SmartApps, or your television is OTA, then you can stream your audio in discrete 5.1 via ARC (distance limited) or you can use an optical cable. Some ARC will allow for Atmos but it is lossy, not lossless, and neither format can stream HD Audio ( Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc).

ARC is quite often associated with CEC (Consumer Electronic Control), which has lots of compatibility issues due to the use of non-standardized protocols. CEC issues can sometimes play havoc with ARC so a lot of us have given up on ARC/CEC and use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for SmartApps or OTA audio and setup a programmable remote such as a Harmony for single remote control of your HTS. Some newer tv's and receivers have separate controls for ARC and CEC so you can enable one and disable the other. Most however, don't give you that option so it's either enabled or disabled for both. So, if ARC/CEC is something that you don't think you'll ever use then your choice of cable is a little easier because a long cable, such as a Ruipro fiber or hybrid fiber will work ok if you're just pushing 1080i. A well made cable will not give you any better audio or video because the signal is digital. You either get it or you don't. Dropped signal, sparkles, etc is an indication of a probable cable issue. The cable can not improve or add anything to the signal. It all depends on the source material. 

You could use a copper based HDMI cable but unless it is an active cable, 50' might be pushing it even for 1080i. Cable price does not guarantee that it will work 100% of the time, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. You could try a 50' High Speed HDMI cable (Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge for example) and see how that works. Fiber is expensive so trying out a copper-based cable first might be a good idea. At 50', if this is an in-wall installation, I assume you will be running your cable in a conduit?


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## AVSynthesis

Thanks for the detailed response and great info. And yes, I will be doing conduit because I am sure these decision/choices won't get any easier down the road  

1. I looked at the BJC version(s) of HDMI cable, but when you get to 50' the price is practically the same for the fiber, so I might as well get the RuiPro. Is this a good logic? Am I sacrificing anything by choosing fiber over copper?

2. Just to make sure I get the full picture (remember, I am just getting into this): If I would NOT be using a TV (as a display or for streaming apps), and my setup will theoretically be connecting source components (BD player, FioS box, AppleTV, maybe a playstation etc) to a Marantz Receiver (8012 latest model) and then running the HDMI cable to the projector, then I should NOT care about the ARC/eARC feature of the HDMI cable. Is that the right assumption? We do watch some Netflix and Hulu apps but that's through the Apple TV/Roku, and I assume the signals get sent to the AV receiver then the speakers before even getting to the HDMI cable and projector, correct?

3. And finally for Atmos, if the content is recorded with Atmos, and with the above setup (Blueray/Streaming apps --> AV receiver --> HDMI RuiPro --> Projector) I should be able to get the full Atmos effect regardless of ARC, correct?

Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Think of ARC (Audio Return Channel) as bi-directional audio and "regular" HDMI as uni-directional audio. What determines the "directionality" of the audio are the HDMI chipsets on the source and sink ends of the HDMI chain (blu-ray player to tv for example). If you run all of your sources thru the receiver first (which is using the receiver as the hub of your HTS, as you should be) then all audio, regardless of format will be decoded by the receiver (if it has the capability) and just the video will be passed to the tv. If you use the tv as just a display device because your viewing is thru your external sources (blu-ray player, xBox, AppleTV, whatever) then you don't need to worry about ARC/CEC and can disable them on all of your connected devices. Do keep in mind that disabling ARC/CEC means you will end up using multiple remote controls (because CEC is disabled) but that's easily overcome with a programmable remote as I mentioned above.

If you don't mind spending the extra money on the Ruipro Hybrid Fiber cable than I'd go that route. Chances are if you eventually upgrade to 4k HDR the cable may still work for you, especially if you don't care about ARC. Running your cable inside a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling so you're going to be ok there. As far as conduit goes, 1.5' - 2.0" diameter is what we recommend because you can always lay in a coax cable, possibly a solid core CAT-6a cable (non-CCS and NOT a CAT-6 ethernet cable), and at least a pull-string for future cable pulls. Just be mindful of the bend radius when fishing your cable thru. Whatever cable you get, I'd suggest laying it out on the floor first and thoroughly testing it before you install in-wall, just in case.


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## gadgetfreaky

I need to run 100ft, which would you choose, the RUIPRO or Monoprice. Also, notice the monoprice plenum is pretty expensive. If i'm running thru conduit do I need to get the plenum version? RUIPRO is not rated. I want to run a 4k projector, and also run the 4k bluray player back to the AV rack.


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## Otto Pylot

There are no 100% guarantees at this point in time that you are going to be successful at 100' which is very tough. Running your cable in a conduit only ensures that you will be able to swap it out, or modify it easily. Meeting building code requirements is up to you. If by running it back your AV rack you are referring to ARC, that's probably not going to happen successfully at 100'.


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## jong1

^^

In theory, withn reason, fiber shouldn't care much about distance. Once you've cracked the optical/electrical conversion the loss over fiber is tiny. Celerity sell their cable up to 1000ft. But ARC is done electrically on the Ruipro, which has benefits but definitely will limit distance. 100ft sounds an ask.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I agree. But it seems that in reality, there are still issues. Fiber should be the end-all for a/v connectivity so there's probably more involved than just the data pipe (HDMI chipsets, etc).


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## Joe Fernand

ARC - as Otto says is only relevant where your Display (TV) is being used as a Source or your HDMI ‘Hub’.

100’ HDMI - we have lots of 30m and 50m RuiPro installed with customers across the UK/EU. In my own system I’ve had Source > 30m > AVR > 30m > TV working for extended test periods with no issues (Sources : Sky Q, ATV 4K, XB1S, PS4 Pro and UHD BD).

Test, Test, Test - if possible give everything a thorough test before you commit to installing the cables.

Joe



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ I agree. But it seems that in reality, there are still issues. Fiber should be the end-all for a/v connectivity so there's probably more involved than just the data pipe (HDMI chipsets, etc).


Joe may have something to add, but I'm not sure I've seen anything here that demonstrates longer distances add to unreliability in 4K video with fiber installations.

There does seem a higher than desirable fail rate for some brands, which makes it doubly important to have a good warranty and that people use conduit. Celerity's approach does make things more difficult for themselves, as they not only have opto/electrical circuitry to worry about, but a physical interconnect between the cable and the headends, the tolerances for which must be tiny! But, I'm still not convinced distance, be it 25ft or, say 500ft, has been shown to be a factor.


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## Otto Pylot

I certainly hope you are correct about the distance/fiber issue. Once HDMI 2.1 becomes commercially available hopefully distance won't be an issue at all for fiber/hybrid fiber.


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## Joe Fernand

Hybrid Fibre vs Active Fibre - we have seen a huge difference in system compatibility and reliability, so much so we have stopped supplying any Active Fibre solutions and have replaced Active Fibre cables with Hybrid Fibre.

Distance - we are not seeing any drop in reliability with the long, 30m+, Hybrid Fibre cables vs. shorter Hybrid Fibre cables and a few of our Trade Customers are now going with Hybrid Fibre for everything 5m+.

ARC - one or two folk have reported here on AVF that they have had intermittent ARC on the long cables, we are not seeing that issue; though that could be down to very few folk using ARC and variations in the Source and Sink devices being used.

Joe


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## Grantos27

*Can anyone help?!*

I am having an issue with playing Atmos content, I believe its an issue with my HDMI cable but the retailer doesn't think so. Anytime I play Atmos content (Netflix or Dolby Access) the audio continually mutes for a second at a time over a 3 minute period, it could happen 10-20 times. Obviously making it impossible to watch.

Setup:
2017 LG C7 65" OLED
(connected via 15m Ruipro Active Optical HDMI)
2017 Denon AVR-X1400H
2017 Panasonic DMP-UB900
PS4
5.1.2 B&W speaker setup

The UDH player is connected via a 2m Kordz HDMI and Atmos audio is fine, no issue! 

I have tested the the TV to AVR with multiple different cables (2m and 0.8m lengths) and there is never any issue with Atmos sound. Which is why I believe it is a cable problem.

The cable supplier thinks its anything but the cable, but with the tests I have run everything plays fine in the system except when audio is coming through the 15m Ruipro direct from the TV.

TV has the latest firmware sent directly from LG.

I have video footage both showing the TV footage and audio skipping as well as the AVR trying to decode the audio from the Ruipro. Which I can supply, somehow...

*Can anyone help???*


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## jk246

jong1 said:


> ^^
> 
> In theory, withn reason, fiber shouldn't care much about distance. Once you've cracked the optical/electrical conversion the loss over fiber is tiny. Celerity sell their cable up to 1000ft. But ARC is done electrically on the Ruipro, which has benefits but definitely will limit distance. 100ft sounds an ask.


All fiber is not the same, different diameters, 62.5um, 50um, 9um, different modes, multimode, singlemode, optimized for different light frequencies; using different modulation schemes; say we're talking about 10G Ethernet, one type/technology might have a max useful distance of 33meters, another 10km. Pretty big spread, eh?

jk


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## jk246

gadgetfreaky said:


> I need to run 100ft, which would you choose, the RUIPRO or Monoprice. Also, notice the monoprice plenum is pretty expensive. If i'm running thru conduit do I need to get the plenum version? RUIPRO is not rated. I want to run a 4k projector, and also run the 4k bluray player back to the AV rack.


I don't know the particulars of your installation, but you may be confusing plenum cable with riser cable. Plenum cable (low-smoke polyvinyl chloride [PVC], fluorinated ethylene polymer [FEC] or teflon-jacketed) is for use where cables are run through air-plenums or areas where any toxic smoke generated would or could be drawn into the HVAC air distribution system. Air plenums are generally found in commercial buildings where the space between the ceiling and drop ceiling (or sometimes under raised floors) is used as a path to return air back to the HVAC heat exchanger, and in the process could spread any toxic gases generated from burning cable jackets throughout a building or part of building. Riser cable (usually designated CL3R or CL2R) is what is mostly used in domestic buildings for in-wall runs, and is more focused on retarding the spread of fire in an enclosed space. Because of the more expensive materials used in plenum cable, they can be significantly more expensive. Using a conduit that met the standards of the NEC for in-wall electrical use for your cables should satisfy any building inspector.


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## jk246

Grantos27 said:


> I am having an issue with playing Atmos content, I believe its an issue with my HDMI cable but the retailer doesn't think so. Anytime I play Atmos content (Netflix or Dolby Access) the audio continually mutes for a second at a time over a 3 minute period, it could happen 10-20 times. Obviously making it impossible to watch.
> 
> Setup:
> 2017 LG C7 65" OLED
> (connected via 15m Ruipro Active Optical HDMI)
> 2017 Denon AVR-X1400H
> 2017 Panasonic DMP-UB900
> PS4
> 5.1.2 B&W speaker setup
> 
> The UDH player is connected via a 2m Kordz HDMI and Atmos audio is fine, no issue!
> 
> I have tested the the TV to AVR with multiple different cables (2m and 0.8m lengths) and there is never any issue with Atmos sound. Which is why I believe it is a cable problem.
> 
> The cable supplier thinks its anything but the cable, but with the tests I have run everything plays fine in the system except when audio is coming through the 15m Ruipro direct from the TV.
> 
> TV has the latest firmware sent directly from LG.
> 
> I have video footage both showing the TV footage and audio skipping as well as the AVR trying to decode the audio from the Ruipro. Which I can supply, somehow...
> 
> *Can anyone help???*


Yes it does sound like a cable problem- I've had 3 15m RUIPro cables, one of the older ones with silver HDMI connector hoods, and 2 newer ones with the smoke-grey HDMI connector hoods and white lettering; all worked well from the AVR to the UHDTV, but the ARC path never worked correctly. When watching off-air television with Dolby 5.1, the periods between dropouts was measured in minutes, but when doing Netflix streaming through the UHDTV streaming app, the more complex and loud the audio was, the more frequent the dropouts occurred... Dolby Digital bad, Dolby Atmos worse, sometimes approx 1 every second or two.

Coincidental to your post, I spent a good deal of time researching the issues involved. First, as I'm sure most people know, the path through the RUIPro from the AVR to the UHDTV has active circuitry that changes the HDMI electrical signals to modulated light and back again at the far end. That part works fine. The problem is with the ARC path, which is simply wires. The wires used were an "option" beginning in HDMI 1.4; originally those two wires were meant to be used by an ethernet channel from the AVR to the TV to save the consumer the trouble of running ethernet cables to both the AVR and the TV; the trouble is, nobody ever implemented them in their designs, so they decided to make them optional for use for ARC, and that caught on. The thing is, they weren't JUST used for ARC, one of the wires was used for ARC was also used for handshaking between the AVR and the TV so each one is aware of what the other is doing. And to complicate matters even more, the signals coming from the AVR going through the fiber to the TV use differential signaling- when one wire goes 'high' the other goes 'low'; and that's all they do; on the other hand, the wires that do ARC are used for handshaking, optionally for ethernet, and for ARC, and there are two modes of ARC that it can do, single and differential signalling, so any optical path between the TV and the AVR must be able to sort that all out and negotiate all the possible different modes at right time- and THAT is the problem. Doing all of that and trying to fit it all into a connector shell is very difficult if not impossible, and that's why the manufacturers are trying to get away without the same engineering accommodations needed to get the signals from the AVR to TV; and those signals are differential. If the ARC signal is single-ended (and I haven't been able to dig up what determines single-ended vs differential operation), then it is even more subject to noise, outside interference, and the capacitive effects and impedance mismatch on the long, thin parallel conductors in the RUIPro cable. The bandwidth of ARC is not as great as that of the video going to the UHDTV but it's still fairly high; at it's heart it is a much enhanced version of S/PDIF, with significantly greater bandwidth and that is why it's capable of Dolby ATMOS. TOSLINK just can't handle the bandwidth.

Some people have reported no problems with the RUIPro ARC function. I can say why, but I can theorize that perhaps the differences in HDMI 2.0 chipsets made by different manufacturers are able to recovered the distortions caused by the cable better, or if there is error correction built into the interfaces, maybe one manufacturer's algorhithm is better than another, or maybe it's some external cause like being too close to a wireless AP, or cellular tower, or some other form of interference. Whatever the cause, now that I understand the ARC interface better, it doesn't surprise me that if I can't get a differential signal reliably from an AVR to a UHDTV over a passive cable with 24 or 26 AWG conductors any more than 20' or 25', why should I expect to get a single ended signal to travel twice the distance. It's a lower bandwidth signal, maybe it's possible to do reliably in ever conceivable scenario, but there's more work that needs to be done before we get there.

jk


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## AVSynthesis

Otto Pylot said:


> As far as conduit goes, 1.5' - 2.0" diameter is what we recommend because you can always lay in a coax cable, possibly a solid core CAT-6a cable (non-CCS and NOT a CAT-6 ethernet cable), and at least a pull-string for future cable pulls.


1. What's the difference between the Solid core CAT-6a and the regular CAT 6?
2. In the age of WiFi, does running a CAT cable to the projector (or anywhere else) make sense any more?
3. For the "pull string" in a conduit, what kind of string material do you guys use, and how do you thread it into the conduit at the initial installation stage?
These might sound like basic questions, but just to clarify. Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVSynthesis said:


> 1. What's the difference between the Solid core CAT-6a and the regular CAT 6?
> 2. In the age of WiFi, does running a CAT cable to the projector (or anywhere else) make sense any more?
> 3. For the "pull string" in a conduit, what kind of string material do you guys use, and how do you thread it into the conduit at the initial installation stage?
> These might sound like basic questions, but just to clarify. Thanks.


Solid core CAT cable consists of 22AWG (usually) solid copper wires, 4-pairs twisted with each wire insulated and then the entire bundle is contained within a jacketed sheath. You can purchase the wire in spools of 25' or greater and the wire is not terminated. You can terminate the cable with a punchdown keystone jack if you just want to extend an ethernet connection (for hard wiring your HTS) or terminate the cable with some sort of active termination (like HDBT) to extend an HDMI connection. In our first house, I just ran conduit down the inside walls (leaving the cable in the attic space carefully tacked to the rafters), terminated it with a punchdown keystone jack, and then connected an 8-port gigabit switch to that so I could then connect my devices to the cable.

WiFi or hardwiring is a personal choice but I prefer to hardwire where ever I can. WiFi is dependent upon how robust your system is and can be subject to interference that can plague WiFi. WiFi can, and is, a very good way to connect your system I just prefer the reliability of hardwiring. A single, cabled connection from your router to your devices is about as solid of a connection as you can get. The pull string can be anything from a piece of string anchored at either end so you don't lose or it can be something a bit stronger like plastic string. Threading can be a bit of a challenge but if you start with a small piece of string, and then pull it thru the conduit with a shop vac attached to the other end, then once the small piece of string is pulled thru, you can attach a better pull string to one end and then pull that thru. I just attached one end, usually in the attic space, to a nail outside of the conduit to keep it in place and ready to go if I need to use it. It's also best to leave service loops at each end to give you some extra cable to work with. 

Once you get your conduit in place, and it is big enough, you can just run solid core CAT-6, coax (nice to have it in place if you decide later on you need it), ethernet cable (should you decide to do so), a hybrid fiber cable, an HDMI cable (not really recommend for long runs), speaker wiring, whatever you think you need now or in the future. If, down the road, your current cable isn't sufficient for the newest and greatest video technology, you just pull out what you don't need and fish the new cable thru.

Installing conduit can be a real pain and a mess. But if you're planning on not moving for a long time, and want to "future proof" your cabling needs, then it's just about a requirement. Conduit can be installed down an inside wall without opening the walls up (I've had it done) on a single story home. A two-story house may be more difficult but that's what good electrical contractor is for.


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## Joe Fernand

Grabtos27 - are you able to temporarily move the TV closer to the AVR to allow you to test the ARC connection with a different HDMI cable?

Joe


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## jk246

AVSynthesis said:


> 3. For the "pull string" in a conduit, what kind of string material do you guys use, and how do you thread it into the conduit at the initial installation stage?
> These might sound like basic questions, but just to clarify. Thanks.





Otto Pylot said:


> The pull string can be anything from a piece of string anchored at either end so you don't lose or it can be something a bit stronger like plastic string. Threading can be a bit of a challenge but if you start with a small piece of string, and then pull it thru the conduit with a shop vac attached to the other end, then once the small piece of string is pulled thru, you can attach a better pull string to one end and then pull that thru.


To aid in pulling the string through your conduit tie the end around a wad of cotton or balled-up toilet paper, then use your shop vac (a regular household vac with a hose works just fine too) to pull the string through. Hardware stores usually carry heavier cord (sometimes sold by the foot) that works good for pulling cables. It's worth it to buy a little over twice what you need, tape the cable you're pulling to the midpoint, pull it though the conduit, and then tie one end of the cord to to something at your endpoint, then pull the cord back to the other end of the conduit into the attic or wherever and wrap it into a small bundle; then it will be there the next time you have to pull a new cable. If you're replacing an obsolete cable, you can always use the old cable to pull the new one- tape the connectors to form the most streamlined bundle you can to avoid them getting hung up inside the conduit, and NEVER try to force the cable if it gets hung up, that usually just makes things worse- pull it back out and find out what's hanging it up, figure out how to minimize the problem and try again.


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## humbug2

Strongly recommend using nylon drapery cord, NOT twine or other inexpensive cords from a hardware store.


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## jk246

humbug2 said:


> Strongly recommend using nylon drapery cord, NOT twine or other inexpensive cords from a hardware store.


Nylon drapery cord sounds like it could be fine, but just to be clear, I don't think anyone suggested using 'inexpensive' twine or cord from a hardware store. Home Depot and other hardware stores sell cord by the foot, including small diameter paracord, and the only thing better than that is if you or anyone you know ever buys conduit that comes pre-loaded with a pull-cord, keep that for future use- it's kevlar, super-strong and abrasion resistant, and it doesn't get much better than that. And if you're only pulling through a 10' or 25' conduit that is mostly straight and isn't 80% full of other cables, if you have a ball of good strong waxed twine, just use it, it will work just fine, just avoid the loosely twisted stuff that is used for tying up newspapers, etc that has loose fibers on the outside of it.

Another thing to think about- if you ever run cables in studded-out walls before the drywall is installed, take photos- lots of photos. If you ever have to go back into the wall to run more cable that doesn't have conduit in it, you'll know exactly where to strategically cut any small holes to enable you to feed the new cable through any holes in the studs. Also, if you ever have any plumbing in the walls and have any problems, you'll know exactly where to find the pipes. Same goes if you ever want to add a new AC receptacle.

jk


----------



## Otto Pylot

humbug2 said:


> Strongly recommend using nylon drapery cord, NOT twine or other inexpensive cords from a hardware store.


Once the pathway is done, you can always connect what ever cord you think is necessary and pull it through. A 20' run is going to be different than a 50' run so think ahead.


----------



## Lucifer1977

I just purchased from Amazon, RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 18.2 Gbps 4K. I have an older Inetgra 9.8 preamp. I just wanted to give people a heads-up that 

on two separate movies there were persistent video and audio drop-offs where the screen went black for a couple of seconds.
I have a feeling that it s the older amp doing this. However, with using older HDMI cables that are not 4k rated this did not happen.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Lucifer1977 said:


> I just purchased from Amazon, RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 18.2 Gbps 4K. I have an older Inetgra 9.8 preamp. I just wanted to give people a heads-up that
> 
> on two separate movies there were persistent video and audio drop-offs where the screen went black for a couple of seconds.
> I have a feeling that it s the older amp doing this. However, with using older HDMI cables that are not 4k rated this did not happen.


That is odd because the cable is just a data pipe. It can't change or alter the signal it is carrying unless it is an active cable. In which case the sink end does error correction, timing, etc to maintain the signal integrity over a greater distance without any loss or degradation.


----------



## jk246

Lucifer1977 said:


> I just purchased from Amazon, RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 18.2 Gbps 4K. I have an older Inetgra 9.8 preamp. I just wanted to give people a heads-up that
> 
> on two separate movies there were persistent video and audio drop-offs where the screen went black for a couple of seconds.
> I have a feeling that it s the older amp doing this. However, with using older HDMI cables that are not 4k rated this did not happen.


What is your signal path from the source thru any intervening equipment to the display, including model numbers?


----------



## Lucifer1977

jk246 said:


> What is your signal path from the source thru any intervening equipment to the display, including model numbers?


I'm was feeding both a 4k movie (Batman The Dark Knight Rises) and a 1080 BlueRay movie.
In both instances the movies went black for a few seconds. That had never happened before.
The source is a GTX-960.


----------



## jk246

Lucifer1977 said:


> I'm was feeding both a 4k movie (Batman The Dark Knight Rises) and a 1080 BlueRay movie.
> In both instances the movies went black for a few seconds. That had never happened before.
> The source is a GTX-960.


What I meant was describe from where the signal originates to the display and everything in-between.

Are you playing files from a server, streaming from an internet source, playing from a UHD/BD player, what are the models of all devices, or is it a server, does it go thru preamp and if so what is it, how do you get audio to your speakers, what kind and model is your display.

Since you mention a GTX-960, it sounds like you could be streaming from a server, an internal hard drive, a streaming service or an internal UHD/BD drive. I'm familiar with the GTX-960, I have 4 of them. It is unique in the 900-series line, in that it is the only model that has hardware capability to encode/decode HEVC and other codecs; even the higher-end 900-series models can't do that. It's also HDMI 2.0 (not 2.0b) and DisplayPort 1.2- I assume you're using HDMI. Does your motherboard have PCI-E 3.0, or an earlier version? Do you have anything that could be sharing the same PCI-E lanes that your GTX-960 is using?

Tell us more about your system.


----------



## Lucifer1977

I'm playing directly from internal hard drive. The point is that I have never had an issue playing a 4K content 
until I swapped out cables. As I said, the signal is being routed through an older Integra 9.8. Oh, btw, a reviewer on amazon
posted that he had the same issue with the same cables going through an Integra because of the amount 
of HDMI under voltage in the pre-amp.


----------



## jk246

Lucifer1977 said:


> I'm playing directly from internal hard drive. The point is that I have never had an issue playing a 4K content
> until I swapped out cables. As I said, the signal is being routed through an older Integra 9.8. Oh, btw, a reviewer on amazon
> posted that he had the same issue with the same cables going through an Integra because of the amount
> of HDMI under voltage in the pre-amp.


You haven't fully described your setup, and this is exactly why I'm asking; from what I've been able to learn from your description, you were previously using a passive cable. When you replace the cable you're having dropouts. Know what's connected where is useful because it reveals what equipment is connected to each end of the RUIpro cable. The reason for that is that the RUIpro is not a passive cable, it is an active cable. That means it has electronics in it and those electronics need power. In this case the power comes from source HDMI connector. There is a spec for what this power should be, and if the device feeding it doesn't meet that spec, that could be the source of the problem. Have you tried running the cable directly from the computer to the display device and if so, are you experiencing dropouts? That could help to narrow down where the problem is coming from. It could also be and HDCP problem, but you haven't told me enough about the complete system for me to check specs and see if that is a possibility. If I understand correctly, the GTX-960 is feeding the Integra... whether or not the GTX-960 meets the specs for HDMI voltage is hard to tell, since it's not in the EVGA specs (assuming you have an EVGA board) but since the cards are generally used to feed monitors directly without supplying voltage to other intermediate devices. RUIpro does make a voltage inserter if you want to look into that, it's about $10 on Amazon - search " RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch) ". Don't be confused by the name, it's not a mini HDMI connector, it's full-sized HDMI, don't know why they named it like that. Good luck.


----------



## Lucifer1977

jk246 said:


> You haven't fully described your setup, and this is exactly why I'm asking; from what I've been able to learn from your description, you were previously using a passive cable. When you replace the cable you're having dropouts. Know what's connected where is useful because it reveals what equipment is connected to each end of the RUIpro cable. The reason for that is that the RUIpro is not a passive cable, it is an active cable. That means it has electronics in it and those electronics need power. In this case the power comes from source HDMI connector. There is a spec for what this power should be, and if the device feeding it doesn't meet that spec, that could be the source of the problem. Have you tried running the cable directly from the computer to the display device and if so, are you experiencing dropouts? That could help to narrow down where the problem is coming from. It could also be and HDCP problem, but you haven't told me enough about the complete system for me to check specs and see if that is a possibility. If I understand correctly, the GTX-960 is feeding the Integra... whether or not the GTX-960 meets the specs for HDMI voltage is hard to tell, since it's not in the EVGA specs (assuming you have an EVGA board) but since the cards are generally used to feed monitors directly without supplying voltage to other intermediate devices. RUIpro does make a voltage inserter if you want to look into that, it's about $10 on Amazon - search " RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch) ". Don't be confused by the name, it's not a mini HDMI connector, it's full-sized HDMI, don't know why they named it like that. Good luck.


Thank you for your help. I'm going to see if I can narrow it down.


----------



## Swatdude1

Has anyone used the RUIPRO cables with a motorized projector lift? I have an INCA lift for my JVC DLA-RS520 and every time it goes up and down the cable will be bent and unbent. The lift has a flexible cable tray which provides a decent radius at the full bent position but I will be using my projector approx. 4 to 8 times a month mostly for 4k content. 

I just ordered the 40 ft RUIPRO fiber cable and it's going to be a pain to fish it so I'm wondering if I should just put a shorter 6 foot cable in the lift that I can replace easier rather than fishing a new cable if the constant exercise will eventually ruin it. I just worry that putting the 6 foot in line with the 40 foot could cause issues as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

4k can be a real pain because it doesn't seem to be as forgiving with the cable connection as does 1080i. Constantly bending a fiber cable, even gently, is not a good thing and may shorten the life of the cable. Daisy-chaining cables is also not recommended because anytime you "break" the connection with an adapter you run the chance of interfering with the data transmission. I would definitely try the daisy chain tho cause it may work and replacing a 6' cable every now and then is a lot better than replacing a 40' cable that sounds like is not installed in a conduit.


----------



## Joe Fernand

jk246 - can you bypass the Integra as a test?

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jk246

jk246 said:


> Thanks for the clarification Otto, skimmed over a few posts and didn't connect the "2" with the previous post. If ARC is eliminated from the context, then I have not had any other problems with the RUIPro cables.
> 
> jk


UNTIL NOW:

This is a follow-up to my previous post here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-32.html#post55998164 about two 15 meter RUIPro cables. As I mentioned in that post, I had issues with periodic ARC audio dropouts which seem to be related to the audio bandwith (read more in post#945). As far as operation in the forward direction (source-to-sink) the cables seemed to work fine.

I recently did some further testing using my Oppo UDP 203 directly connected to my LG OLED 65-C7 with several UHD discs that feature DolbyVision. 

The Oppo settings are:
HDR Setting - Auto
Output Resolution - Custom
Custom Resolution - UHD Auto
Color Space - Auto
Color Depth - Auto

The LG OLED settings are:
General => HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color => HDMI (x) => On

When I tested the first RUIPro cable, I got this on-screen message:
This player is not connected to a 4k Ultra HD TV.
This Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc was mastered for optimal viewing on a 4k Ultra HD TV tha supports High Dynamic Range (HDR). If you do not have an HDR compatible display, video playback may vary based on your player and TV's capabilities. Please insert the Blu-ray Disc for optimal viewing.

This was surprising, considering that both the Oppo and the LG definitely have the capability needed, and I'd watched this disc previously in it's full glory and knew it wasn't defective.

I tried a different disc for conformation and got this on-screen message:
For optimal picture quality, connect your 4k Ultra HD Blu-ray Player to a Television that supports 4k Ultra HD with High Dynamic Range (HDR)

Same concept, different message. Apparently the error message itself originates from the disc being played.

I swapped out the first RUIPro cable with the second one. This time both discs played correctly with the Oppo upscaling the color space & resolution:

Media Information:

Resolution: 3840x2160
Frame Rate: 23.976p
HDR Format: BDMV HDR
Color Space: BT2020 YCbCr 4:2:0 10bit
Video Codec: HEVC
Current Bit Rate: 70ish Mbps (varies)
Maximum Luminance: 10000 nits
Minimum Luminance: 0.005 nits
Audio Language: English
Audio Format: Dolby TrueHD 7.1ch 48kHz
Channel Position: FL/FR, LFE, C SL/SR, SBL/SBR
Audio Bit Rate: 5.2ish Mbps (varies)
Video Bit Rate: 65ish Mbps (varies)


HDMI (Main) Output Information

Resolution: 3840x2160
Frame Rate: 23.976p
HDR Format: HDR
Color Space: BT2020 YCnCr 4:4:4 12bit
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Audio Format: Bitstream 68k

I get the same results using a MonoPrice 20' Certified passive cable.

To reiterate, this is the Oppo going directly to the LG, Oppo upscaling to Deep Color - nothing in-between. When using the same settings, but sending the Oppo through my Denon AVR-X7200-WA (in pass-thru mode) to the LG using the MonoPrice 20' Certified cable (because it does ARC perfectly) everything works as well.

I do like RUIPro-the-company and think they are dedicated to getting things right, so don't think this post is a slam. Thorough testing and detailed reports do help manufacturers improve their products, and it is in that spirit that I am posting my results.

jk


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> jk246 - can you bypass the Integra as a test?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Joe, I'm not the one with the Integra, it belongs to the guy I was quoting in my post.


----------



## Swatdude1

Amazon just dropped the 12m Ruipro cable and hour ago and I just tested it with the Oppo and Apple 4k and it worked! Picture was amazing. Next weekend I will complete the arduous task of fishing it into some already-packed flimsy builder conduit. I think I've decided to roll the dice and just take it all the way through the lift cable tray and to the projector rather than trying a separate cable for the lift, which would introduce another connection point. I guess I will be the guinea pig to test the constant bending of the Ruipro cable in the lift.


----------



## Mike_WI

*HDMI 4K 18 Gbps HDBaseT Signal Extender*

FYI...

*Emotiva - HDMI 4K 18 Gbps HDBaseT Signal Extender*
https://emotiva.com/products/hdmi-hdbaset-signal-extender

$399.00



> If you’ve ever had to connect an HDMI source, like your home theater preamp/processor, to a monitor or projector all the way across a large room, you may have run into a few problems. Long HDMI cables can be expensive and unwieldy, and even the best quality regular HDMI cables may become unreliable if they’re too long, especially with the latest 4k video formats. There are a few specialty cables available that work over longer distances, but they are extremely expensive, and may have compatibility issues with your equipment.


FEATURES



> Compatible With All Current Video Standards
> 
> HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2 compliant.
> Full 18 Gbps bandwidth supports all current video formats, including 4k UHD with HDR (4k [email protected]/60 Hz (YUV 4:4:4) and HD.
> Supports low cost Cat6 cables.
> Supports CEC bypass.
> Supports ARC audio.
> Full bi-directional transfer of IR electrical remote control signals.
> Full bi-directional transfer of RS-232 serial remote control signals.
> Range of up to 40 meters (120 feet) with 4k UHD video, and over 70 meters (210 feet) with HD video.
> Uses easily available low-cost “Cat6 UTP network cable”.
> Simply make the appropriate connections and you’re ready to go; there is nothing to program or configure.
> Replace several connections for video and remote control with a single cable.
> Status LEDs show connection and power status at a glance.
> 
> 
> 
> Bi-Directional Transfer of IR And RS-232 Remote Control Signals
> 
> Full bi-directional transfer of IR electrical remote control signals.
> Full bi-directional transfer of RS-232 serial remote control signals.
> Transfer Full Quality Video And Control Signals Efficiently Over Long Distances
> 
> Range of up to 40 meters (120 feet) with 4k UHD video, and over 70 meters (210 feet) with HD video.
> Uses easily available low-cost “Cat6 UTP network cable”.
> Total power consumption of less than 24 watts.
> Simple to Configure And Use
> 
> Simply make the appropriate connections and you’re ready to go; there is nothing to program or configure.
> Replace several connections for video and remote control with a single cable.
> Status LEDs show connection and power status at a glance.


SPECIFICATIONS



> HDMI Video Support
> 
> HDMI compliance: HDMI 2.0b.
> HDCP compliance: HDCP 1.4 and HDCP 2.2.
> Video bandwidth: 18 Gbps.
> Video resolutions and transmission ranges: - up to 70 meters at 1080p/60 Hz/36 bits. - up to 70 meters at 1080p/30 Hz/36 bits/3D. - up to 40 meters at 4k UHD/60 Hz/YUV4:2:0 and YUV 4:4:4. - up to 40 meters at 4k UHD/30 Hz/24 bits. - up to 40 meters at 1080p/60 Hz/36 bits/3D. - up to 40 meters at 1080p/60 Hz/48 bits. - up to 40 meters at 1080p/120 Hz/24 bits.
> Color spaces supported: RGB, YCbCr 4:4:4, YCbCr 4:2:2.
> Color depth supported: 8 bits/10 bits/12 bits per channel.
> Full support for HDR, ARC, and CEC bypass.
> Connection type: HDBaseT.
> Physical: Standard network cable; Cat6 UTP or better.
> Power requirement: 100 - 240 VAC 50/60 Hz (external AC power pack; included).
> Power consumption: 24 watts (max).
> Mechanical: (each enclosure) 6-1/4” x 3-5/8” x 1” (transmitter and receiver each have a separate all-metal enclosure).
> Weight: 12 ounces.
> Color: Black.
> 
> 
> 
> Signal Connection
> 
> Connection type: HDBaseT.
> Physical: Standard network cable; Cat6 UTP or better.
> Power requirement: 100 - 240 VAC 50/60 Hz (external AC power pack; included).
> Power consumption: 24 watts (max).
> Mechanical: (each enclosure) 6-1/4” x 3-5/8” x 1” (transmitter and receiver each have a separate all-metal enclosure).
> Weight: 12 ounces.
> Color: Black.
> 
> 
> Power Requirements
> 
> Power requirement: 100 - 240 VAC 50/60 Hz (external AC power pack; included).
> Power consumption: 24 watts (max).
> 
> 
> Mechanical
> 
> Mechanical: (each enclosure) 6-1/4” x 3-5/8” x 1” (transmitter and receiver each have a separate all-metal enclosure).
> Weight: 12 ounces.
> Color: Black.


----------



## Joe Fernand

‘There are a few specialty cables available that work over longer distances, but they are extremely expensive, and may have compatibility issues with your equipment’ - good job the $399 Extender is not ‘extremely’ expensive, will never have compatibility issues and don’t use any form of compression 

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> ‘There are a few specialty cables available that work over longer distances, but they are extremely expensive, and may have compatibility issues with your equipment’ - good job the $399 Extender is not ‘extremely’ expensive, will never have compatibility issues and don’t use any form of compression
> 
> Joe


Joe, when the description states that it works with "standard network cable; UTP CAT-6 or better" are we to assume that is a solid core CAT-6,6a, or 7 cable?


----------



## Joe Fernand

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*

HDBT do make it confusing at times. On one hand ‘works with anything’ on the other you can now Source HDBT ‘Certified’ CAT Cables!

We always aim to specify Solid Core, non-CCA, CAT6 for HDBT - I can’t see that changing with the Gen2 Extenders.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Joe, when the description states that it works with "standard network cable; UTP CAT-6 or better" are we to assume that is a solid core CAT-6,6a, or 7 cable?


I’ve been told by Pulse Eight that the latest chipsets and firmware have the best chance of dealing with less-than-perfect cable runs. The P8 hardware uses the latest Valens firmware as would, I expect, other high end HDBT extenders.


----------



## Gouie

So, consensus is ruipro or monoprice? I need to pull the trigger and don’t want to miss. Either cable is pushing $300 by the time it gets to my door in Canada. Help!


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> " ...and don’t use any form of compression  "
> 
> Joe


Every form of HDBaseT I've seen uses "visually lossless compression"... you know something I don't Joe?

Regards

jk


----------



## jk246

*Recently announced- A couple more for the watchlist- These are 8k...*

OptoHDTM Cable - HDMI Ultra-High-Definition Optical Link Cable
https://www.cosemi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/OptoHD-Product-Brief-FINAL.pdf

FIBBR Ultra 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable Claims 56Gbps 8K HDR
https://www.cepro.com/article/fibbr_ultra_8k_fiber_optic_hdmi_cable_transmits_56gbps_8k_hdr

Fibbr to Launch 8K/HDR-Ready Optical HDMI Cable
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fibbr-launch-8khdr-ready-56gbps-optical-hdmi-cable-0

...check out that bend radius...


----------



## Joe Fernand

No I’m with you - oddly though ‘supports’ and ‘compatible with’ is getting a lot more airtime than ‘visually lossless’ on the marketing of Gen2 HDBT products.

Joe


----------



## farsider3000

Gouie said:


> So, consensus is ruipro or monoprice? I need to pull the trigger and don’t want to miss. Either cable is pushing $300 by the time it gets to my door in Canada. Help!




I use both of these with great success but only with 4K SDR (my projector is SDR). I have two monoprice (50ft and 75ft) which are longer than the ruipro and both monoprice work perfectly. I think monoprice would be easier to return if you had any issues down the road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> I’ve been told by Pulse Eight that the latest chipsets and firmware have the best chance of dealing with less-than-perfect cable runs. The P8 hardware uses the latest Valens firmware as would, I expect, other high end HDBT extenders.


That may be true but until confirmation testing has been done and ratified, that's just marketing. The final specs were sent to the chip mfrs around the end of 2017 so I find it hard to believe that the final chipset protocols are incorporated in consumer devices yet. To be clear, I'm talking about HDMI 2.1. Caveat emptor.

As far as consensus goes, I would go with Ruipro hybrid fiber.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> That may be true but until confirmation testing has been done and ratified, that's just marketing. The final specs were sent to the chip mfrs around the end of 2017 so I find it hard to believe that the final chipset protocols are incorporated in consumer devices yet. To be clear, I'm talking about HDMI 2.1. Caveat emptor.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as consensus goes, I would go with Ruipro hybrid fiber.


The hardware was complete end of 2017 and waiting for Valens to supply firmware.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> As far as consensus goes, I would go with Ruipro hybrid fiber.


Until Ruipro or another hybrid/pure-fiber manufacturer can bring to market a cable with user-changeable ends for HDMI termination, the most future proof solution is running solid core cat6A and swapping the sender/receiver as tech changes.


----------



## jk246

Joe Fernand said:


> No I’m with you - oddly though ‘supports’ and ‘compatible with’ is getting a lot more airtime than ‘visually lossless’ on the marketing of Gen2 HDBT products.
> 
> Joe


The 'visually lossless' comes right off the sell sheet for the chipset incorporated in product. It's also in the sell sheet for the product mentioned above.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Until Ruipro or another hybrid/pure-fiber manufacturer can bring to market a cable with user-changeable ends for HDMI termination, the most future proof solution is running solid core cat6A and swapping the sender/receiver as tech changes.


We have been recommending solid core CAT-6 or greater (non-CCS), terminated with some sort of active termination (HDBT) for a very long time. And if you want to "future proof" your cabling, run said cable in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit for runs longer than about 20' or in-wall. A hybrid fiber cable is the best bet for the time-being if you need to to improve your cable connection now. There are no 100% guarantees, now or in the future, nor will there be regardless of mfr claims.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'the most future proof solution is running solid core cat6A and swapping the sender/receiver as tech changes' _- as Otto says not a new concept for regulars here on AVS.

The issue at present is that the Extender Tech is behind the curve with UHD if you want fully uncompressed signals - which is why folk here push having a suitable conduit plus a pull cord as 'over CAT' could potentially fall further behind/become more reliant on compression!

Joe


----------



## Gouie

farsider3000 said:


> I use both of these with great success but only with 4K SDR (my projector is SDR). I have two monoprice (50ft and 75ft) which are longer than the ruipro and both monoprice work perfectly. I think monoprice would be easier to return if you had any issues down the road.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Thanks!


----------



## ScottieBoysName

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Otto Pylot said:


> We have been recommending solid core CAT-6 or greater (non-CCS), terminated with some sort of active termination (HDBT) for a very long time. And if you want to "future proof" your cabling, run said cable in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit for runs longer than about 20' or in-wall. A hybrid fiber cable is the best bet for the time-being if you need to to improve your cable connection now. There are no 100% guarantees, now or in the future, nor will there be regardless of mfr claims.




I’m needing to run a 4K video signal about 50 feet at this point. 

Should I go with the Monoprice/Ruipro cable, or should I look into the Cat6a solution you’ve suggest above?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Joe Fernand

I would be installing the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre plus at least one solid core, non-CCA CAT6 as a backup.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> I would be installing the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre plus at least one solid core, non-CCA CAT6 as a backup.
> 
> Joe


I agree with Joe. And at 50', run both cables in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. The hybrid fiber should work for now but you never know what's going to be required for HDMI 2.1. With the use of a conduit, "upgrading" your cabling will be SO much easier.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

ScottieBoysName said:


> I’m needing to run a 4K video signal about 50 feet at this point.
> 
> Should I go with the Monoprice/Ruipro cable, or should I look into the Cat6a solution you’ve suggest above?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




One more question while I’m at it. 

I know this is going to sound strange, but what HDMI cable would you suggest that is 50ft long, that DOESN’T need to carry a 4K signal? Just work perfectly with audio and all that, and runs a 1080P signal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Swatdude1

ScottieBoysName said:


> One more question while I’m at it.
> 
> I know this is going to sound strange, but what HDMI cable would you suggest that is 50ft long, that DOESN’T need to carry a 4K signal? Just work perfectly with audio and all that, and runs a 1080P signal?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I had great success with the Belden Series 1 from Blue Jeans Cable. 1080P never had an issue.


----------



## Swatdude1

So I just spent 5 hours in the attic today running my Ruipro 40ft cable. As careful as I was trying to be, I was pretty abusive to it when inserting it into the INCA lift cable tray and when pull it through the "builder" conduit. When I hooked it up to my DLA-RS520 I said a few prayers and hit the play button on my Oppo with 4k Last Jedi inserted. Bam! A JVC click and delay and I was watching beautiful 4k content. 

Now for the bummer. When the screen retracted and I went back to watching Direct TV Now via Apple TV on my Pioneer Kuro, the signal kept flashing and wouldn't lock. When I unplugged the RUIPRO from the back of the Anthem MRX-720, the issue went away. I will be calling Anthem in the morning for a workaround. I am hoping for a firmware update that allows you to assign an HDMI output for each input setup. I am guessing it is the active electronics in the RIOPRO that are causing the Anthem to fight back and forth between the JVC and The Pioneer even though the JVC is off.

Time will tell if the RUIPRO will handle the constant bending of the INCA lift.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Swatdude1 said:


> I had great success with the Belden Series 1 from Blue Jeans Cable. 1080P never had an issue.




For a 50 foot run it’s $163. I might as well get the Ruipro cable if I’m doing that. Surely there is a $20-$30 cable that can carry a 1080p signal 50 feet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> For a 50 foot run it’s $163. I might as well get the Ruipro cable if I’m doing that. Surely there is a $20-$30 cable that can carry a 1080p signal 50 feet?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


1080p at 50' should not be a problem for a well made active copper cable. Especially if it is run in a conduit to minimize bend radius and damage to the connector ends while fishing it thru. If you have a pull string that makes the process that much easier. However, you may have to spend a bit more than $30 but probably not much more. A hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro) will give you more flexibility if you plan on upgrading to 4k HDR or maybe even HDMI 2.1 later on for that 50' run.


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> 1080p at 50' should not be a problem for a well made active copper cable. Especially if it is run in a conduit to minimize bend radius and damage to the connector ends while fishing it thru. If you have a pull string that makes the process that much easier. However, you may have to spend a bit more than $30 but probably not much more. A hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro) will give you more flexibility if you plan on upgrading to 4k HDR or maybe even HDMI 2.1 later on for that 50' run.


Any suggestions on the active copper cable? Does Ruipro make one?

Depending on the cost, it might just be better to run the hybrid fiber.

What about running Cat6a? How would that work out? Is a transmitting box and receiving box required?


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Any suggestions on the active copper cable? Does Ruipro make one?
> 
> Depending on the cost, it might just be better to run the hybrid fiber.


Certification of current copper-based cables is only good to 25' so you'll have to look at a non-certified, active cable, from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge. The deal with active cables is that they are uni-directional (you have to install them the correct way but there are directional arrows on the cable) and they use a small chipset in the sink end (tv side) for error correction, timing, etc. They do work very well but the chipsets, like any electronic device, can fail over time so you will need to replace the cable. However, some cables have worked for years without issues so ymmv on that. The other consideration is the version of chipsets used. It's very difficult to determine how current the chipsets used are so if you get a bargain active cable it may have an older chipset that might not work well. Again, for 1080p that probably won't be an issue but if you ever upgrade your system to 4k, 4k HDR, or possibly HDMI 2.1 in the future, you will have issues. Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are expensive, but if you want to "future proof" your cabling then you one, need to install a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit, with a pull string, for installation (now and in the future) and purchase a hybrid fiber cable. That will give you much more flexibility as you upgrade that a 50' copper-based cable. Even if the hybrid fiber doesn't work well for HDMI 2.1, swapping out the cable for a new "48Gbps HDMI cable" will be much easier, and safer with a conduit.

Another option, and one that we have been recommending for a long time is to use solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate it with some sort of active termination like HDBT. HDBT also requires the use of HDMI chipsets but as the newer chips become available, you can always upgrade the HDBT termination point which is external to the cable. The cable stays in place. You just need to have a source of power for the termination ends. HDBT works very well for 1080p, and depending on your equipment, has worked well for some for 4k. You can also use the solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection by using punchdown keystone jacks. So, in theory, with the use of an adequate sized conduit, you could run a hybrid fiber cable for your video needs now and possibly into the future, and run the solid core to hardwire your HTS so you wouldn't have to depend on WiFi. And, with the addition of a pull string in the conduit, you are as future proofed as one can be.


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## Stephen Hopkins

Tested my 35' Monoprice DynamicView Active cable between my SR6011 AVR and BenQ TK800 4K HDR projector, with both ShieldTV and Samsung K8500 as sources. I was able to get 24p and 60p 4:2:2 Rec.2020, but NOT 4:4:4 Rec.2020 for either 24p or 60p. It's not the end of the world for my application, but it does seem to indicate throughput in the 8-10 Gbps range and NOT the 18 Gbps advertised. I've not run the cable in-wall yet and I'm not sure if it's worth the effort of going through an exchange just to get 4:4:4 Rec.2020... especially if I'll need to spend up to a more expensive cable, and especially since it's feeding a relatively inexpensive projector.


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> Certification of current copper-based cables is only good to 25' so you'll have to look at a non-certified, active cable, from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge. The deal with active cables is that they are uni-directional (you have to install them the correct way but there are directional arrows on the cable) and they use a small chipset in the sink end (tv side) for error correction, timing, etc. They do work very well but the chipsets, like any electronic device, can fail over time so you will need to replace the cable. However, some cables have worked for years without issues so ymmv on that. The other consideration is the version of chipsets used. It's very difficult to determine how current the chipsets used are so if you get a bargain active cable it may have an older chipset that might not work well. Again, for 1080p that probably won't be an issue but if you ever upgrade your system to 4k, 4k HDR, or possibly HDMI 2.1 in the future, you will have issues. Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are expensive, but if you want to "future proof" your cabling then you one, need to install a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit, with a pull string, for installation (now and in the future) and purchase a hybrid fiber cable. That will give you much more flexibility as you upgrade that a 50' copper-based cable. Even if the hybrid fiber doesn't work well for HDMI 2.1, swapping out the cable for a new "48Gbps HDMI cable" will be much easier, and safer with a conduit.
> 
> Another option, and one that we have been recommending for a long time is to use solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate it with some sort of active termination like HDBT. HDBT also requires the use of HDMI chipsets but as the newer chips become available, you can always upgrade the HDBT termination point which is external to the cable. The cable stays in place. You just need to have a source of power for the termination ends. HDBT works very well for 1080p, and depending on your equipment, has worked well for some for 4k. You can also use the solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection by using punchdown keystone jacks. So, in theory, with the use of an adequate sized conduit, you could run a hybrid fiber cable for your video needs now and possibly into the future, and run the solid core to hardwire your HTS so you wouldn't have to depend on WiFi. And, with the addition of a pull string in the conduit, you are as future proofed as one can be.


Thanks! I have a 2 inch conduit already installed (might be 1.5) which I'll be running the cable through. So, that part is good!

On the Cat6a run, it'll need to be terminated at both ends and run into boxes, correct? So....basically I'll need to have power at both ends. Hmmm. 

Would a single run of Cat 6 work for that, or will I need a single run of Cat 6a, or two runs of either? Or does that depend on the boxes at the ends?

EDIT - All of those HDBaseT solutions look REALLY expensive. It appears that running a Ruipro in conduit is the most cost effective.


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## Swatdude1

Swatdude1 said:


> So I just spent 5 hours in the attic today running my Ruipro 40ft cable. As careful as I was trying to be, I was pretty abusive to it when inserting it into the INCA lift cable tray and when pull it through the "builder" conduit. When I hooked it up to my DLA-RS520 I said a few prayers and hit the play button on my Oppo with 4k Last Jedi inserted. Bam! A JVC click and delay and I was watching beautiful 4k content.
> 
> Now for the bummer. When the screen retracted and I went back to watching Direct TV Now via Apple TV on my Pioneer Kuro, the signal kept flashing and wouldn't lock. When I unplugged the RUIPRO from the back of the Anthem MRX-720, the issue went away. I will be calling Anthem in the morning for a workaround. I am hoping for a firmware update that allows you to assign an HDMI output for each input setup. I am guessing it is the active electronics in the RIOPRO that are causing the Anthem to fight back and forth between the JVC and The Pioneer even though the JVC is off.
> 
> Time will tell if the RUIPRO will handle the constant bending of the INCA lift.


So I spoke with Anthem. They say there is no workaround with their equipment. They said I need an HDCP stripper or an active HDMI switch. Has anyone encountered this and can you recommend a good switch?


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Thanks! I have a 2 inch conduit already installed (might be 1.5) which I'll be running the cable through. So, that part is good!
> 
> On the Cat6a run, it'll need to be terminated at both ends and run into boxes, correct? So....basically I'll need to have power at both ends. Hmmm.
> 
> Would a single run of Cat 6 work for that, or will I need a single run of Cat 6a, or two runs of either? Or does that depend on the boxes at the ends?
> 
> EDIT - All of those HDBaseT solutions look REALLY expensive. It appears that running a Ruipro in conduit is the most cost effective.


The fact that you already have conduit in place pretty much guarantees that you are "future proof". If you don't have a pull string already installed then you could just use any existing cable as a pull string to add a pull string by just attaching the string to the old cable and pulling it thru. If not, some have had luck with inserting a light weight string in one end and then "pulling" it thru will something like a shop vac attached to the other end. Once the string is thru, then attach a better pull string and then pull that thru. You just want to be careful of the connector ends and be very mindful of the bend radius.

I ran solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection so you do want to use a utility box because you can add enough cable inside the box for a service loop which just gives you more cable to work with should you need to add/change connectors. The ethernet connection does not need power. The HDBT or other active terminations do. The power requirements are minimal if I remember correctly (5V USB) so you might be able to externally power it without having power wired to the inside of the utility box. Active HDMI cables on the other hand derive their power from the sink end's (tv side) HDMI input so there is no external power required other than the fact that you can't daisy chain the cable, or shouldn't, so you optimally need a single cable connection, source to sink, without any interruptions.

If it were me, I'd run the hybrid fiber cable from source to sink. The HDBT is a good solution but you may have to upgrade the transceiver/receiver down the road which would be an additional expense. For 1080p, the fiber cable is almost guaranteed to work. A lot of a successful cable connection is due to the devices connected to it and not always the cable so just keep that in mind.


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## 996911

Swatdude1 said:


> So I spoke with Anthem. They say there is no workaround with their equipment. They said I need an HDCP stripper or an active HDMI switch. Has anyone encountered this and can you recommend a good switch?


 I don't have the same setup as you do, but I do have a similar setup (Anthem MRX1120, JVC RS600, Panny 900 4k player, RUIPRO running from Anthem to JVC over a long run) so I'm trying to understand what is happening in your setup. Why does it work with the JVC but not the Pioneer?


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> The fact that you already have conduit in place pretty much guarantees that you are "future proof". If you don't have a pull string already installed then you could just use any existing cable as a pull string to add a pull string by just attaching the string to the old cable and pulling it thru. If not, some have had luck with inserting a light weight string in one end and then "pulling" it thru will something like a shop vac attached to the other end. Once the string is thru, then attach a better pull string and then pull that thru. You just want to be careful of the connector ends and be very mindful of the bend radius.
> 
> I ran solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection so you do want to use a utility box because you can add enough cable inside the box for a service loop which just gives you more cable to work with should you need to add/change connectors. The ethernet connection does not need power. The HDBT or other active terminations do. The power requirements are minimal if I remember correctly (5V USB) so you might be able to externally power it without having power wired to the inside of the utility box. Active HDMI cables on the other hand derive their power from the sink end's (tv side) HDMI input so there is no external power required other than the fact that you can't daisy chain the cable, or shouldn't, so you optimally need a single cable connection, source to sink, without any interruptions.
> 
> If it were me, I'd run the hybrid fiber cable from source to sink. The HDBT is a good solution but you may have to upgrade the transceiver/receiver down the road which would be an additional expense. For 1080p, the fiber cable is almost guaranteed to work. A lot of a successful cable connection is due to the devices connected to it and not always the cable so just keep that in mind.


Awesome. Thank you so much!


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## TrendSetterX

ScottieBoysName said:


> On the Cat6a run, it'll need to be terminated at both ends and run into boxes, correct? So....basically I'll need to have power at both ends. Hmmm.
> 
> 
> 
> Would a single run of Cat 6 work for that?
> EDIT - All of those HDBaseT solutions look REALLY expensive. It appears that running a Ruipro in conduit is the most cost effective.


Most of the better HDBASET setups only need power on one end.

For 1080p you don’t need more than a single run of Cat5E.

Look for some older Binary extenders that only support 1080p and the cost goes way down or look at j-tech-Digital products on amazon.

The latest/best 4K extenders run in the $399 range and include ARC.


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## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Most of the better HDBASET setups only need power on one end.
> 
> For 1080p you don’t need more than a single run of Cat5E.
> 
> Look for some older Binary extenders that only support 1080p and the cost goes way down or look at j-tech-Digital products on amazon.
> 
> The latest/best 4K extenders run in the $399 range and include ARC.


If the OP wants to do any kind of “future proofing” with solid core then CAT-6/6a or even 7 is much better than 5e.


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## epetti

Trying to parse through this thread. Lots of information. The link in the first post for guaranteed long run cables is great, and also the advice to future proof with solid core cat6 runs. What I can't find is, if I have a solid core cat6 run are there recommended well-tested HDBaseT extenders that truly fully support the full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 Spec over 50' or longer distances? If so, are they collected in a list anywhere and what are the downsides (other than cost) with going that approach? 

Thanks in advance.


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## ScottieBoysName

TrendSetterX said:


> Most of the better HDBASET setups only need power on one end.
> 
> For 1080p you don’t need more than a single run of Cat5E.
> 
> Look for some older Binary extenders that only support 1080p and the cost goes way down or look at j-tech-Digital products on amazon.
> 
> The latest/best 4K extenders run in the $399 range and include ARC.




Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> If the OP wants to do any kind of “future proofing” with solid core then CAT-6/6a or even 7 is much better than 5e.




Just to be clear, only a SINGLE run of any cable flavor is necessary, correct? 

So a single run of Cat6, or Cat6a, or Cat7?


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## TrendSetterX

ScottieBoysName said:


> Just to be clear, only a SINGLE run of any cable flavor is necessary, correct?
> 
> So a single run of Cat6, or Cat6a, or Cat7?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




My point was, in the context of the OP’s original question around 1080p, that if you can get away with a single cat5e then you can clearly get away with a single run of Cat6 or anything above. That being said, the early generation of extenders over category cables required 2 cst5e(or better) cables. As the tech progressed, they moved to only needing a single. We don’t know what the next HDMI Standard will need, tech-Wise, to support it yet, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility to consider that 2 runs may be necessary. I think it’s unlikely, but if we’re focused on future proofing, and you have the conduit, pull it.


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## ScottieBoysName

TrendSetterX said:


> My point was, in the context of the OP’s original question around 1080p, that if you can get away with a single cat5e then you can clearly get away with a single run of Cat6 or anything above. That being said, the early generation of extenders over category cables required 2 cst5e(or better) cables. As the tech progressed, they moved to only needing a single. We don’t know what the next HDMI Standard will need, tech-Wise, to support it yet, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility to consider that 2 runs may be necessary. I think it’s unlikely, but if we’re focused on future proofing, and you have the conduit, pull it.




Got it! Thanks!


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## TrendSetterX

epetti said:


> Trying to parse through this thread. Lots of information. The link in the first post for guaranteed long run cables is great, and also the advice to future proof with solid core cat6 runs. What I can't find is, if I have a solid core cat6 run are there recommended well-tested HDBaseT extenders that truly fully support the full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 Spec over 50' or longer distances? If so, are they collected in a list anywhere and what are the downsides (other than cost) with going that approach?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Not that I know of, especially given that s new generation of firmware and hardware just came to market in the last couple months from Valens who OEMs for most of the high end brands. We have some units coming in for some customer installs that we’ll be able to report on.


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## Joe Fernand

Epetti - you have to be clear above ‘fully supports’!

Gen2 HDBT can Support full Bandwidth UHD by utilising ‘visually Lossless’ compression.

The next generation of HDBT may well require 2x CAT or even Fibre.

Joe 


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Just to be clear, only a SINGLE run of any cable flavor is necessary, correct?
> 
> So a single run of Cat6, or Cat6a, or Cat7?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, a single cable should be sufficient. However, if you've got the space in the conduit, it's not a bad idea to run extra cable just in case you need it for something else. Some folks will run a couple of solid cores, a coax, along with the pull string. My feeling is that once HDMI 2.1 is widely deployed in devices and media, a fiber cable is going to be required so at that point in time, you can use the solid core for extended ethernet or something else. However, the last spec for HDMI 2.1 mentioned a "special 48Gbps HDMI Cable" whose maximum length was 3M (9'). Hopefully that will be worked out by the time fully compliant HDMI 2.1 devices are available, but I'm sure there will be lots of smoke and mirrors with the cable mfrs and their claims and descriptions. If you have no desire to move beyond 1080p now and in the future, then solid core CAT-6 with HDBT termination should work fine. However, what ever you do, lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test before installing in-wall.


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## epetti

Joe Fernand said:


> Epetti - you have to be clear above ‘fully supports’!
> 
> Gen2 HDBT can Support full Bandwidth UHD by utilising ‘visually Lossless’ compression.
> 
> The next generation of HDBT may well require 2x CAT or even Fibre.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




If it's truly visually lossless that's fine with me. I thankfully can't perceive the imperceivable. What would be some recommendations for reliable gen2 hdbt boxes that support the bandwidth with that compression?


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## Joe Fernand

_'If it's truly visually lossless' _- that you will have to judge for yourself.

Joe


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## giomania

epetti said:


> If it's truly visually lossless that's fine with me. I thankfully can't perceive the imperceivable. What would be some recommendations for reliable gen2 hdbt boxes that support the bandwidth with that compression?




Atlona AT-UHD-EX-100CEA-KIT, which just started shipping in February. You might have to ask them what Valens chipset they use.

https://atlona.com/product/at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit/


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## jk246

ScottieBoysName said:


> On the Cat6a run, it'll need to be terminated at both ends and run into boxes, correct? So....basically I'll need to have power at both ends. Hmmm.


There are some HDBaseT solutions in the older generation that provide power over ethernet to the receiving end unit from the sending end unit. The newer generation solutions are just coming out at this point, but I would expect that the product line will have equivalent options, as it's just an obvious 'want' for consumers. I'm not recommending you go to any particular solution, as my experience has shown that no solution has yet achieved maturity, it's still a lot of hit-or-miss at this point, and when you hear glowing success stories you need to factor in your own particular needs; case in point- RUIPro cables. I've have 5 at this point, 2 first gens and 3 second gens. If your needs include ARC (audio return channel) from you're TV like I do, the 2 first gen cables had no ARC at all, the second 3 have ARC with periodic audio dropouts- the higher the audio bandwidth, the shorter the period between dropouts, as did 2 Monoprice Cabernet active cables, and 1 Monoprice HOSS cable. Video was a different story for the RUIPro cables- I never fully tested the first gen cables to full 4:4:4 bandwidth HDR, just 4:2:0, and they performed very well (with 4:2:0). However, with the last 2 second gen RUIPros I tested with 4:4:4 bandwidth HDR the first one completely failed and the second one works great (except for ARC, which has audio dropouts). Point being that over the variety of Monoprice and RUIPro cables that I've tested, the manufacturers still seem to be in a steep part of the learning curve and haven't worked out all issues with them, and their quality control isn't up to par, because for one person to have so many issues with so few cables that I've tested goes far beyond the statistical odds that I just happened to receive the only defective cables from different manufacturers product lines, and greatly more likely that it's due to them being more thoroughly tested with a variety of different devices and using some options that the mainstream user is not using now but may use in the future. The cable you get today may even work fine for a couple of months, and then as it ages, issues may then start to show up, which is what happened with the Monoprice Cabernet active cables.
Bottom line- install conduit, and be prepared to replace cables in the future, because at this point it's more likely than not it's a matter of 'when', not 'if' you will need to install new cable(s).


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## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> Bottom line- install conduit, and be prepared to replace cables in the future, because at this point it's more likely than not it's a matter of 'when', not 'if' you will need to install new cable(s).


Yep. That is what some of us have been saying for the last couple of years now. That is truly the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit will take care of most needs now and in the future.


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## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. That is what some of us have been saying for the last couple of years now. That is truly the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit will take care of most needs now and in the future.


Yes, many of us have been repeating this for years, even decades. I would hazard a guess say most, if not all of us learned this the hard way- by making the same mistake. In this field there is only one constant- change. Things constantly change in technology, and period between these changes is becoming increasingly more frequent. Sometimes it's hard for people to accept this and they think it's too much trouble to future proof it, but I've heard a lot of people say 'I'm glad I went through the extra trouble'. I personally have put in more conduits than the average person has, and I've never put one in and later said, 'what a waste of time'. But, some people just have to learn the lesson the hard way, but, I can't be overly critical, because that's how I learned.


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## ScottieBoysName

jk246 said:


> Yes, many of us have been repeating this for years, even decades. I would hazard a guess say most, if not all of us learned this the hard way- by making the same mistake. In this field there is only one constant- change. Things constantly change in technology, and period between these changes is becoming increasingly more frequent. Sometimes it's hard for people to accept this and they think it's too much trouble to future proof it, but I've heard a lot of people say 'I'm glad I went through the extra trouble'. I personally have put in more conduits than the average person has, and I've never put one in and later said, 'what a waste of time'. But, some people just have to learn the lesson the hard way, but, I can't be overly critical, because that's how I learned.




So poking around in the theater room, I found they ran some Cat6 (single run) to the display area from the AV Rack area. 

Great! So...what’s the best most reliable HDBT solution for using a single run of Cat 6 that can do 4K HRD 60 at 4:4:4?


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> So poking around in the theater room, I found they ran some Cat6 (single run) to the display area from the AV Rack area.
> 
> Great! So...what’s the best most reliable HDBT solution for using a single run of Cat 6 that can do 4K HRD 60 at 4:4:4?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Solid core CAT-6 or CAT-6 ethernet patch cable? Any idea what the wire gauge is? Hopefully Joe will respond to that because that's what he does. I think it may come down to the HDMI chipsets that are available in the current HDBT devices.


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> Solid core CAT-6 or CAT-6 ethernet patch cable? Any idea what the wire gauge is? Hopefully Joe will respond to that because that's what he does. I think it may come down to the HDMI chipsets that are available in the current HDBT devices.




Solid core Cat6 23 gauge. 


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## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Solid core Cat6 23 gauge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Excellent. You're half-way there  Might want to think about running another solid core (with a pull string), just in case it's needed down the road. 4k HDR @60Hz via HDBT may still be a challenge with the current HDMI devices but more current ones are coming to market. Joe? You there?


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## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. You're half-way there  Might want to think about running another solid core (with a pull string), just in case it's needed down the road. 4k HDR @60Hz via HDBT may still be a challenge with the current HDMI devices but more current ones are coming to market. Joe? You there?




Thanks! Would love to hear your take Joe. Otherwise I’ll be going Ruipro I guess. 


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## Joe Fernand

HDBT Gen2 are now becoming available - they all have to use some from of Compression, how much of an impact that will have on your system only you can judge.

For now Fibre and Hybrid Fibre have the upper hand - we have found the RuiPro Hybrid to be very reliable.

Joe


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## giomania

ScottieBoysName said:


> So poking around in the theater room, I found they ran some Cat6 (single run) to the display area from the AV Rack area.
> 
> Great! So...what’s the best most reliable HDBT solution for using a single run of Cat 6 that can do 4K HRD 60 at 4:4:4?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Joe says that cables are preferred, and since he just keeps saying that HDBT products with the new chips “are shipping”, he seems to be inferring that we don’t yet know their maximum capabilities.

For example, the unit I bought (Atlona AT-UHD-EX-100CEA-KIT) which only just started shipping, has an apparent maximum: 4K/UHD capability @ 60 Hz with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling

https://atlona.com/product/at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit/

Does it have the new chips? Not sure about that, but I am using it in the master bedroom where there is no 4K TV. Since this room is just for casual viewing, I didn’t need to ensure it had the maximum current capabilities. I just wanted to be somewhat future-proof and have it work without issues.


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## TrendSetterX

giomania said:


> For example, the unit I bought (Atlona AT-UHD-EX-100CEA-KIT) which only just started shipping, has an apparent maximum: 4K/UHD capability @ 60 Hz with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling
> 
> https://atlona.com/product/at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit/
> 
> Does it have the new chips? Not sure about that, but I am using it in the master bedroom where there is no 4K TV. Since this room is just for casual viewing, I didn’t need to ensure it had the maximum current capabilities. I just wanted to be somewhat future-proof and have it work without issues.


You're looking at the wrong Atlona product. The at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit is designed for very long runs (100M+) and therefore has reduced functionality. The at-hdr-ex-70c-kit ( https://atlona.com/product/at-hdr-ex-70c-kit/ ) has better chroma and HDR support however it doesn't support ARC (which it really should if it's using the latest Valens tech).

Other products from manufacturers that are for sure using latest Valens Reference tech advertise support for 4K/60 4:4:4 (including HDR10 @ 4:2:2 60Hz) with full ARC support.


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Joe says that cables are preferred, and since he just keeps saying that HDBT products with the new chips “are shipping”, he seems to be inferring that we don’t yet know their maximum capabilities.
> 
> For example, the unit I bought (Atlona AT-UHD-EX-100CEA-KIT) which only just started shipping, has an apparent maximum: 4K/UHD capability @ 60 Hz with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling
> 
> https://atlona.com/product/at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit/
> 
> Does it have the new chips? Not sure about that, but I am using it in the master bedroom where there is no 4K TV. Since this room is just for casual viewing, I didn’t need to ensure it had the maximum current capabilities. I just wanted to be somewhat future-proof and have it work without issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The ONLY way to "future proof" cabling is to use a conduit if the run is long and in-wall. The reason is that video standards are changing (HDMI 2.1 for example) faster than the connection technology. Which means that swapping/upgrading cables will be happening probably sooner than later. So, by using a conduit that makes changing cables for those long, in-wall runs much easier, and safer (easier to control bend radius). If you're not concerned about 4k HDR with your bedroom setup, then 1080i/p is easy with pretty much any good, quality built, High Speed HDMI cable, depending on your distance. HDBT is quite often used with solid core CAT-6,6a, or 7 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) because it's a bit easier to fish the cable thru a conduit without damaging it. The cable is not terminated so the use of HDBT as the termination point is easier to setup. And, it's easier to upgrade the HDBT portion because it is outside of the wall so the cable stays in place.

For a run longer than about 20', and in-wall, I wouldn't recommend a copper-only HDMI cable for 4k HDR but would consider either solid core or a hybrid fiber cable in a conduit. The solid core can always be re-purposed later to extend an ethernet connection so you don't have to depend on WiFi for your HTS and the hybrid fiber will probably give you longer usage over time.


----------



## giomania

TrendSetterX said:


> You're looking at the wrong Atlona product. The at-uhd-ex-100cea-kit is designed for very long runs (100M+) and therefore has reduced functionality. The at-hdr-ex-70c-kit ( https://atlona.com/product/at-hdr-ex-70c-kit/ ) has better chroma and HDR support however it doesn't support ARC (which it really should if it's using the latest Valens tech).
> 
> 
> 
> Other products from manufacturers that are for sure using latest Valens Reference tech advertise support for 4K/60 4:4:4 (including HDR10 @ 4:2:2 60Hz) with full ARC support.




I didn’t go with the “70” kit because the run is about 120-130 feet of cat 5E in the wall (not conduit), and according to the specifications, the 4K maximum on that “70“ kit is 115 feet for Cat 5e / 6.

I probably should’ve asked here first to be sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> I didn’t go with the “70” kit because the run is about 120-130 feet of cat 5E in the wall (not conduit), and according to the specifications, the 4K maximum on that “70“ kit is 115 feet for Cat 5e / 6.
> 
> I probably should’ve asked here first to be sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


CAT-5, even if it's solid core, is going to be very tough at 120', especially without the use of a conduit. CAT-6a or possibly even 7 would be a better choice for an active cable system. Specs are one, and about the only thing you can go on, but there are lots of other factors besides the data pipe (cable) for a successful cable run. If all you want is 1080i/p then it's possible. Anything above that, and you really should consider hybrid fiber, which is gonna be expensive.

Is the existing CAT-5 a solid core cable (solid pure copper wires, 22AWG, individually insulated, twisted into 4 pairs, and then encased in an insulted jacket). The cable is stiff, and can be difficult to pull, even without a conduit, but the ends are not terminated so there's no worry about damaging connector ends during the pulling process so the only thing you need to worry about is bend radius.


----------



## giomania

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*

1080p is working, but to answer your question, the Cat 5e cable is Belden 1583A, which is 
Product Description
CAT5e (200MHz), 4-Pair, U/UTP-unshielded, Riser-CMR, Premise Horizontal cable, 24 AWG solid bare copper conductors, polyolefin insulation, ripcord, PVC jacket.

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/1583A_techdata.pdf



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that appears to be solid core so you're good to go there as far as 1080i/p. However, if you plan on pushing 4k HDR at that distance (and certainly fully compliant HDMI 2.1) you will need to replace the cable with one that can handle bandwidth higher that 10.2Gbps like a solid core CAT-6a/7 or hybrid fiber.


----------



## epetti

Is Cat 7 future proofing any better than Cat 6? Reading on it, it sounds like the spec just guarantees a longer distance but not necessarily higher bandwidth, so is it worth the added cost over Cat 6/6a?

Also, regarding being able to tell if a balun is using the latest chip set, further up in this thread the Emotiva extender was mentioned: https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/hdmi-hdbaset-signal-extender

or the oddly much less expensive Monoprice option:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10914&cs_id=1091401&p_id=30446&seq=1&format=2

Both claim "HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2 compliant. Full 18 Gbps bandwidth supports all current video formats, including 4k UHD with Supports ARC audio."

I would assume this means they're using some visually lossless compression, but would fully handle all current formats over Cat6. Not sure what difference it would be at that point if it's the latest chipset or not since that is also advertised as having visually lossless compression from the Valens web site.


----------



## Swatdude1

996911 said:


> I don't have the same setup as you do, but I do have a similar setup (Anthem MRX1120, JVC RS600, Panny 900 4k player, RUIPRO running from Anthem to JVC over a long run) so I'm trying to understand what is happening in your setup. Why does it work with the JVC but not the Pioneer?


Basically, the Anthem always outputs to both HDMI outs. When I switched back to the Kuro, the screen kept flashing on and off. Anthem Tech said even though the JVC is "off" some newer devices still are "active". Anthem said that it was trying to switch to 4k and then back to 1080p and then 4k, causing the flashing on the Pioneer Kuro which is 1080p. The tech said this had to do with HDCP protection, HDMI 2.0 and the fact I had one HDMI hooked up to a 1080p device and the other to a 4k device. He told me to look into an HDCP stripper, which are hard to find, or an HDMI switch. I have no clue about how either of those options will eliminate the problem or how to deploy them. I was hoping someone had encountered the same thing and could point me to specific device.


----------



## 996911

Swatdude1 said:


> Basically, the Anthem always outputs to both HDMI outs. When I switched back to the Kuro, the screen kept flashing on and off. Anthem Tech said even though the JVC is "off" some newer devices still are "active". Anthem said that it was trying to switch to 4k and then back to 1080p and then 4k, causing the flashing on the Pioneer Kuro which is 1080p. The tech said this had to do with HDCP protection, HDMI 2.0 and the fact I had one HDMI hooked up to a 1080p device and the other to a 4k device. He told me to look into an HDCP stripper, which are hard to find, or an HDMI switch. I have no clue about how either of those options will eliminate the problem or how to deploy them. I was hoping someone had encountered the same thing and could point me to specific device.


Ah, ok that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation! Helps me tremendously as I considered adding flat panel to the mix and it appears that it must also be 4K. I'll make sure to test with a couple panels to make sure before pressing on to other solutions. Thanks again! Cheers


----------



## TrendSetterX

epetti said:


> Is Cat 7 future proofing any better than Cat 6? Reading on it, it sounds like the spec just guarantees a longer distance but not necessarily higher bandwidth, so is it worth the added cost over Cat 6/6a?


Going off of cable specs alone, Cat 7 Solid Core/Riser is better (at a cost of being more difficult to pull). I've seen at least one major extender manufacturer group 7 and 6A as supporting "max distance" while 6 and 5E support the "minimum distance."



epetti said:


> Also, regarding being able to tell if a balun is using the latest chip set, further up in this thread the Emotiva extender was mentioned: https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/hdmi-hdbaset-signal-extender
> 
> or the oddly much less expensive Monoprice option:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10914&cs_id=1091401&p_id=30446&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Both claim "HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2 compliant. Full 18 Gbps bandwidth supports all current video formats, including 4k UHD with Supports ARC audio."


A couple things - that monoprice product does not support ARC. I'm also not even sure where it fits in the hierarchy of Monoprice products. It's newer than but has worse specs than the https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21792 (which I am actually using currently) - and the older 21792 is about twice as expensive.



epetti said:


> I would assume this means they're using some visually lossless compression, but would fully handle all current formats over Cat6. Not sure what difference it would be at that point if it's the latest chipset or not since that is also advertised as having visually lossless compression from the Valens web site.


Longer distance support, better compression algorithm, more stable HDCP handshaking, ARC-support...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Just keep in mind that cable mfrs make all kinds of claims with their cables, extenders, etc. And they are all masters at marketing. Take whatever they say with a big grain of salt. There is not going to be one solution that will work for all. There will be trial and error, especially for those long runs so nothing is 100% guaranteed. Keep your receipts and thoroughly test before installation.

CAT-7 solid core is probably a bit of an overkill for some but it will work as good as solid core CAT-6 so that's a personal choice.

Unless a cable is certified by an ATC (and that's only good to 25'), which currently only covers HDMI 2.0b, you have no way of knowing how a mfr validates their claims. And, as we've said all along, certification is not a 100% guarantee either that it will work for a specific setup and hardware configuration. All you can be assured of is that regardless of the cable's mfr, the testing/certification process was done by a standardized set of protocols. Laying in solid core CAT-6 and a hybrid fiber cable inside a conduit is the best you can do now and for the foreseeable future. Without the use of a conduit for long runs, you're gonna be screwed down the road unless your cable is outside the wall (along a baseboard for example).


----------



## Gouie

+1, my room isn’t even complete yet and I’m having to re-run.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gouie said:


> +1, my room isn’t even complete yet and I’m having to re-run.


It's a p.i.t.a. for sure but you WILL thank yourself later. Conduit can also be installed in inside existing walls by a qualified electrician without opening the walls. I had two rooms done that way and the only cutting of the walls was to install the utility box. However, it is much easier to do that on a single story home than a two-story. For me, the rest of the cabling was carefully tacked up in the attic space with the conduit only going down the inside walls. Pull strings were added and a generous service loop for the cable was wound up inside the utility box for future connections, upgrades, etc.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'I had two rooms done that way and the only cutting of the walls was to install the utility box' _- now if only we didn't fit 'dwangs' (horizontal timers) in our cavity walls, life for the install team would be so much easier.

This room has an 'open' ceiling so all cables had to go 'in-wall' - one where you ask the customer to stay away for a day or two 

Joe


----------



## Swatdude1

Swatdude1 said:


> Basically, the Anthem always outputs to both HDMI outs. When I switched back to the Kuro, the screen kept flashing on and off. Anthem Tech said even though the JVC is "off" some newer devices still are "active". Anthem said that it was trying to switch to 4k and then back to 1080p and then 4k, causing the flashing on the Pioneer Kuro which is 1080p. The tech said this had to do with HDCP protection, HDMI 2.0 and the fact I had one HDMI hooked up to a 1080p device and the other to a 4k device. He told me to look into an HDCP stripper, which are hard to find, or an HDMI switch. I have no clue about how either of those options will eliminate the problem or how to deploy them. I was hoping someone had encountered the same thing and could point me to specific device.


So I've done a little research. Anyone know if my situation can be corrected by a "DR HDMI" or HDFury??


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> _'I had two rooms done that way and the only cutting of the walls was to install the utility box' _- now if only we didn't fit 'dwangs' (horizontal timers) in our cavity walls, life for the install team would be so much easier.
> 
> This room has an 'open' ceiling so all cables had to go 'in-wall' - one where you ask the customer to stay away for a day or two
> 
> Joe


Mine was so much easier. No muss, no fuss.


----------



## Gouie

Otto Pylot said:


> It's a p.i.t.a. for sure but you WILL thank yourself later. Conduit can also be installed in inside existing walls by a qualified electrician without opening the walls. I had two rooms done that way and the only cutting of the walls was to install the utility box. However, it is much easier to do that on a single story home than a two-story. For me, the rest of the cabling was carefully tacked up in the attic space with the conduit only going down the inside walls. Pull strings were added and a generous service loop for the cable was wound up inside the utility box for future connections, upgrades, etc.



I went all in on soundproofing so one of the things I didn’t skimp on was conduit - roughly 500ft. I haven’t pulled anything through it yet so I’m a little nervous starting with a fragile optic cable. Lots of lube and patience.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Swatdude1 - HDFury is the Brand. 

HDFury ‘Dr HDMI’ - is useful in a 1080p system.

HDFury ‘Linker’ (+ GoBlue adapter) - is useful in a 2160p system.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gouie said:


> I went all in on soundproofing so one of the things I didn’t skimp on was conduit - roughly 500ft. I haven’t pulled anything through it yet so I’m a little nervous starting with a fragile optic cable. Lots of lube and patience.


Push a solid core CAT-6 thru, which is a bit stiff, and attach a piece of string or other suitable material for a pull string to the end of the cable. Using the solid core could serve two purposes. Being as the ends are not terminated there's no worry of damaging the cable so you can use that as a "guide" for the attached pull string. Or, you could just a long run of CAT-6 and attach the fiber cable to it and pull that way. Once the fiber cable is thru to the sink end, and you still have solid core at the source end, you could cut the solid core, leaving a service loop at both ends, ending up with a solid core CAT-6 as well as your fiber cable in the conduit (along with the pull string). The solid core could be used to extend an ethernet connection so you could hardwire you HTS or for a secondary HDMI run. If your conduit is 1.5" to 2.0" in diameter it should be fairly easy to pull cable, depending on how many bends you have in your run, and still keep the angles gentle.


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## Swatdude1

Joe Fernand said:


> Swatdude1 - HDFury is the Brand.
> 
> HDFury ‘Dr HDMI’ - is useful in a 1080p system.
> 
> HDFury ‘Linker’ (+ GoBlue adapter) - is useful in a 2160p system.
> 
> Joe


Joe,

I have a mixed system. My Oppo feeds 4k to the JVC DLA-RS520 fine but when the RUIPRO is plugged into my Anthem MRX-720 and the JVC is powered off, the 1080p signal from my Apple TV to my Pioneer Kuro just flashes on and off and will not lock. If I put the Dr HDMI between the Anthem and the Pioneer, will that solve my problem?

FYI, if I unplug the RUIPRO which feeds the JVC, the issue goes away.

Oh and I apologize, I meant HD Fury Integral vs. Dr HDMI.


----------



## EZYHD

Joe Fernand said:


> For now Fibre and Hybrid Fibre have the upper hand - we have found the RuiPro Hybrid to be very reliable.
> 
> Joe


Agree, we've fund them extremely reliable to date from customers all over OZ, had 2 damaged by installer, just one returned and one replaced.


----------



## jbm007

ARROW-AV said:


> Nice idea and whilst we are not saying the it is not possible that EMI may possibly contribute to some degree in some instances towards an HDMI cable have issues passing video signals, please kindly note that with respect to all of our tests in all instances all cables were tested as 'PRE-INSTALLATION' in other words, NONE were installed into walls or ceilings; and the environment has one of the lowest/non-existent EMI you can possibly find within a residential environment. (Happy to elaborate if you wish).
> 
> But please do not misinterpret our saying so as implying that you are imagining things… Where all we are saying this that we can rule out EMI as being an influencing factor with respect to our evaluation and testing exercise. And that if it does indeed transpire to be an issue then this would simply be yet another thing to add to the list of possible causes of cable signal failures
> Hi Mark, We would recommend the 6m long RUIPRO. Whilst you don't need it 6m long the cable is highly flexible, very thin, and 100% reliable. It’s perfect for your needs.
> Regarding the premium certified cables, we would like to know more regarding precisely how and to what extent these cables are tested, plus wait to hear a sufficiently considerable quantity of feedback from users, plus carry out some of our own tests, all of which before we ourselves will personally be vouching for these cables.
> 
> Sorry, if we are ‘Doubting Thomases’ in this regard but we have experienced too many instances of things that are supposed to deliver whatever performance only to discover that the reality is that in practice they fail to do so… Where we both hope and expect all of these cables to all pass 18 Gbps 100.0% of the time consistently, reliably, and without exception, but we just need for our own peace of mind to make absolutely definitively positively sure
> 
> We’d like to thank everyone for their kind words and positive feedback. We are nuts about AV and like to be able to positively contribute to AV communities like this one
> 
> For what it’s worth, we already have word that one of the Celerity cables that PASSED our testing which we provided to a business associate for installation into his company’s showroom facilities, was working initially but also subsequently failed… and they cost GBP £400 here in the UK! Given our experience to date we have concluded that they unfortunately are just not as reliable as some people think they are…
> 
> That said, we should add that same applies to fibre optic HDMI cables in general, in that whilst it is definitely the superior technology regards succeeding in reliably delivering 18Gbps, it cannot be taken for granted or assumed that any and all fibre optic cables will deliver the same perfect perrformance as eachother, because we have already determined that there is a significant variance in performance between the various fibre optic technology based HDMI cable products that we evaluated and tested, and so there is still the need to cherry-pick the cables which are confirmed by tests and/or indicated by user feedback to be the best performing.
> 
> Yes, however that's a royal pain in the arse for everyone concerned... especially as compared with using a cable that delivers nothing but perfect performance every time... where we even found the (possible) need to connect power via USB to be an additional negative, let alone the now proven unreliability and cable failures... So sorry, but we won't be buying Celerity again and neither will any of our business associates or clients...
> .


We use and recommend Mono price and the new Metra cables to our customers on anything over 30 feet


----------



## Otto Pylot

jbm007 said:


> We use and recommend Mono price and the new Metra cables to our customers on anything over 30 feet


Who's we? Almost any copper-only cable will have a difficult time passing 4k HDR at distances longer than about 25', at least as reported by the users here. A hybrid fiber cable seems to be the most reliable so far.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Swatdude1 - we see this issue quite often, no matter which type of HDMI cables we are using.

An HDFury Linker or Integral are definitely worth trying out - the Integral has onboard Bluetooth control the Linker requires the optional GoBlue adapter.

Be prepared for a bit of experimentation to find where best to place the HDFury device (between Source and AVR or AVR and 1080p Display) - if you use the Linker and you have the ATV 4K (rather than the ATV 4th Gen) you can potentially set the ATV to 4K and drop that to 1080p on the Linker placed on the Output side of the AVR.

Joe


----------



## n2shag

Joe Fernand said:


> Swatdude1 - we see this issue quite often, no matter which type of HDMI cables we are using.
> 
> An HDFury Linker or Integral are definitely worth trying out - the Integral has onboard Bluetooth control the Linker requires the optional GoBlue adapter.
> 
> Be prepared for a bit of experimentation to find where best to place the HDFury device (between Source and AVR or AVR and 1080p Display) - if you use the Linker and you have the ATV 4K (rather than the ATV 4th Gen) you can potentially set the ATV to 4K and drop that to 1080p on the Linker placed on the Output side of the AVR.
> 
> Joe


If I may drop-in on this discussion of cable and dropouts.... I have experienced random video dropouts while watching Directv (audio continues) that seem to last from 5 to 10 seconds. This does NOT occur when I'm viewing Blu-Ray or streaming Netflix/Prime Video. My system set-up for Directv is as follows: Hi-speed HDMI cable from Directv box to Gefen 4 Way 4K switcher then hi-speed HDMI cable to Gefen 4k HDMI extender to JVC DLA-RS520. The run from the Gefen extender to the projector is about 60' via CAT6 cable and fiber optic cable as required. Just don't understand why these video dropouts occur only with Directv (and by the way they do NOT occur while viewing on my other LG OLED TV). When the picture is there it is fabulous! Any feedback/suggestions are welcomed.


----------



## TrendSetterX

n2shag said:


> If I may drop-in on this discussion of cable and dropouts.... I have experienced random video dropouts while watching Directv (audio continues) that seem to last from 5 to 10 seconds. This does NOT occur when I'm viewing Blu-Ray or streaming Netflix/Prime Video. My system set-up for Directv is as follows: Hi-speed HDMI cable from Directv box to Gefen 4 Way 4K switcher then hi-speed HDMI cable to Gefen 4k HDMI extender to JVC DLA-RS520. The run from the Gefen extender to the projector is about 60' via CAT6 cable and fiber optic cable as required. Just don't understand why these video dropouts occur only with Directv (and by the way they do NOT occur while viewing on my other LG OLED TV). When the picture is there it is fabulous! Any feedback/suggestions are welcomed.




Can you explain “The run from the Gefen extender to the projector is about 60' via CAT6 cable and fiber optic cable as required” more? Also do the drop outs seem to happen when you’re changing channels or while you’re watching without doing anything?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Simplify - connect the DirectTV 'direct' to the Projector via the cabling which is normally connecting the Output side of the Gefen Switch to the Projector.

Switch - what is the model number?

Audio - where and how is that being handled in your signal path.

Firmware - are all connected devices running up-to-date firmware?

Joe


----------



## Swatdude1

Joe Fernand said:


> Swatdude1 - we see this issue quite often, no matter which type of HDMI cables we are using.
> 
> An HDFury Linker or Integral are definitely worth trying out - the Integral has onboard Bluetooth control the Linker requires the optional GoBlue adapter.
> 
> Be prepared for a bit of experimentation to find where best to place the HDFury device (between Source and AVR or AVR and 1080p Display) - if you use the Linker and you have the ATV 4K (rather than the ATV 4th Gen) you can potentially set the ATV to 4K and drop that to 1080p on the Linker placed on the Output side of the AVR.
> 
> Joe


Thanks, Joe. I ordered the Linker and will post back up on the results.


----------



## madnosf

*Having a hard time finding a reliable cable at 15ft*

Folks,

Need your guidance here . I have 2017 4K LG tv (deep color enabled in all inputs) and Onkyo 575. I recently purchased a PS4 Pro and have nothing but problems with HDR staying on (flickering, black screen, hand shake). I have tried numerous HDMI cables from Amazon but nothing has worked consistently. I have spoken to Onkyo and they suggested i turn off deep color but that's not an option for me since i have to recalibrate everything on my TV then for all other inputs. Before any asks, my ps4, Onkyo and TV all have the latest firmware. 

The only thing that works for me now consistently is a 6ft cable that came with PS4 Pro that is connected directly with the TV right now but i have my tv mounted and 6FT cable is handing on the bottom of the tv right now which is not very appealing for me. I am fine with having a 15ft cable to go from one HDMI input to PS4PRo and skip Onkyo receiver if needed. 

Is there any cable that works for 15ft through a receiver or PS4 pro directly? I don't see a report 2 in the OP so can't download it for the results. My Xbox1X is connected to all of these previously used cables and had no issues with HDR so it's something Sony is enforcing with PS4 that is giving me issues. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## TrendSetterX

madnosf said:


> Folks,
> 
> Need your guidance here . I have 2017 4K LG tv (deep color enabled in all inputs) and Onkyo 575. I recently purchased a PS4 Pro and have nothing but problems with HDR staying on (flickering, black screen, hand shake). I have tried numerous HDMI cables from Amazon but nothing has worked consistently. I have spoken to Onkyo and they suggested i turn off deep color but that's not an option for me since i have to recalibrate everything on my TV then for all other inputs. Before any asks, my ps4, Onkyo and TV all have the latest firmware.
> 
> The only thing that works for me now consistently is a 6ft cable that came with PS4 Pro that is connected directly with the TV right now but i have my tv mounted and 6FT cable is handing on the bottom of the tv right now which is not very appealing for me. I am fine with having a 15ft cable to go from one HDMI input to PS4PRo and skip Onkyo receiver if needed.
> 
> Is there any cable that works for 15ft through a receiver or PS4 pro directly? I don't see a report 2 in the OP so can't download it for the results. My Xbox1X is connected to all of these previously used cables and had no issues with HDR so it's something Sony is enforcing with PS4 that is giving me issues.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



At only 15’ (and assuming all the cables you’ve tried have been certified for high speed) this sounds more like a general compatibility problem. Seems it’s common with the PS4: https://community.playstation.com/c...als.topic.html/ps4_pro_connectivity-xcvN.html

Does your Onkyo have a setting to control HDMI bandwidth like the Yamahas do?


----------



## madnosf

TrendSetterX said:


> At only 15’ (and assuming all the cables you’ve tried have been certified for high speed) this sounds more like a general compatibility problem. Seems it’s common with the PS4: https://community.playstation.com/c...als.topic.html/ps4_pro_connectivity-xcvN.html
> 
> Does your Onkyo have a setting to control HDMI bandwidth like the Yamahas do?


All ports are setup for HDCP 2.2. I have tried various ports and same issue. Regarding the certified comment you made, i am not sure if the certification is actually enforced on these websites like Amazon so looking for any example someone on here used so i can buy and validate.


----------



## Otto Pylot

madnosf said:


> All ports are setup for HDCP 2.2. I have tried various ports and same issue. Regarding the certified comment you made, i am not sure if the certification is actually enforced on these websites like Amazon so looking for any example someone on here used so i can buy and validate.


If the cable is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) it will come with a QR label so you can check authenticity. If not, the "certification" is questionable and can mean just about anything. ATC certification can be done on any cable that the mfrs submits for testing if they are willing to pay the cost (which is not cheap). That's why you can find ATC certified cables from different mfrs and resellers. The QR label follows the cable. Currently ATC certification is only good to 25' and at present doesn't cover the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols, yet. However, ATC certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because setups are different, hardware is different (HDMI chipsets involved), etc. All certification tells you is that the cable was certified by an HDMI.org approved certification process which is standardized.


----------



## madnosf

Otto Pylot said:


> If the cable is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) it will come with a QR label so you can check authenticity. If not, the "certification" is questionable and can mean just about anything. ATC certification can be done on any cable that the mfrs submits for testing if they are willing to pay the cost (which is not cheap). That's why you can find ATC certified cables from different mfrs and resellers. The QR label follows the cable. Currently ATC certification is only good to 25' and at present doesn't cover the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols, yet. However, ATC certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because setups are different, hardware is different (HDMI chipsets involved), etc. All certification tells you is that the cable was certified by an HDMI.org approved certification process which is standardized.


I was able to find some cable options and ordered them based on another user having similar issue. Should have searched better  . Here's the link to anyone else in my predicament. raying: it works this time around. 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...pport-4k-60hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-72.html


----------



## madnosf

Otto Pylot said:


> If the cable is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) it will come with a QR label so you can check authenticity. If not, the "certification" is questionable and can mean just about anything. ATC certification can be done on any cable that the mfrs submits for testing if they are willing to pay the cost (which is not cheap). That's why you can find ATC certified cables from different mfrs and resellers. The QR label follows the cable. Currently ATC certification is only good to 25' and at present doesn't cover the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols, yet. However, ATC certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because setups are different, hardware is different (HDMI chipsets involved), etc. All certification tells you is that the cable was certified by an HDMI.org approved certification process which is standardized.


I was able to find some cable options and ordered them based on another user having similar issue. Should have searched better  . Here's the link to anyone else in my predicament - my post has the links to said cable. raying: it works this time around. 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...pport-4k-60hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-72.html


----------



## Phil Carter

madnosf said:


> Folks,
> 
> Need your guidance here . I have 2017 4K LG tv (deep color enabled in all inputs) and Onkyo 575. I recently purchased a PS4 Pro and have nothing but problems with HDR staying on (flickering, black screen, hand shake). I have tried numerous HDMI cables from Amazon but nothing has worked consistently. I have spoken to Onkyo and they suggested i turn off deep color but that's not an option for me since i have to recalibrate everything on my TV then for all other inputs. Before any asks, my ps4, Onkyo and TV all have the latest firmware.
> 
> The only thing that works for me now consistently is a 6ft cable that came with PS4 Pro that is connected directly with the TV right now but i have my tv mounted and 6FT cable is handing on the bottom of the tv right now which is not very appealing for me. I am fine with having a 15ft cable to go from one HDMI input to PS4PRo and skip Onkyo receiver if needed.
> 
> Is there any cable that works for 15ft through a receiver or PS4 pro directly? I don't see a report 2 in the OP so can't download it for the results. My Xbox1X is connected to all of these previously used cables and had no issues with HDR so it's something Sony is enforcing with PS4 that is giving me issues.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Man, I feel your pain. I just bought three brand new 10' "Premium Certified 18GB" cables from Monoprice (these ones here) and was experiencing this exact same issue when I tried hooking up my new PS4 Pro through my Denon receiver. I used one cable to go from PS4 Pro's output to Denon input, another cable to run from my Panasonic 4K Blu-ray player to the Denon, and the final new cable to run from the Denon's HDMI Out (ARC) output to the TV's HDMI (ARC) port. At first, the PS4 refused to output true 4K, saying my TV didn't support it, but if I bypassed the Denon and ran the cable directly from the PS4 to the TV, the complaints went away. If I changed the setting in my Denon's Video menu to set "4K Signal Format" to "Enhanced", I was then able to output 4K video from the PS4........but as soon as I made that change, I started seeing the same audio/video dropouts you were seeing, so that wasn't a workable solution either.

What finally worked for me:
-- I removed the brand new Premium Certified HDMI cable from the Denon's HDMI Output to TV's input. I replaced it with the standard HDMI cable that was included out of the box with the PS4 Pro. Just to be clear, this was the cable that ran from the Denon's "HDMI Out (ARC)" port to the TV's HDMI input (ARC) port. 
-- I then set the Denon receiver's Video / 4K Signal Format to "Enhanced". 

The picture disappeared while the PS4 renegotiated, but then stayed on.......and continued to stay on. And the Video Output section of the PS4's Display and Sound section now showed true 4K HDR output at highest resolution. 

So.....you might try running the "standard" cable included with the PS4 Pro from your Onkyo's output to your TV's input, and then checking your Onkyo's video settings to see if it has one for 4K signal format / HDMI signal format. The other two new cables (from the PS4 *to* the Denon, and from the 4K Blu-ray player to the Denon) seem to be OK, at least for me. 

Bloody stupid cables.......*grumble*

cheers,
Phil


----------



## madnosf

Phil Carter said:


> Man, I feel your pain. I just bought three brand new 10' "Premium Certified 18GB" cables from Monoprice (these ones here) and was experiencing this exact same issue when I tried hooking up my new PS4 Pro through my Denon receiver. I used one cable to go from PS4 Pro's output to Denon input, another cable to run from my Panasonic 4K Blu-ray player to the Denon, and the final new cable to run from the Denon's HDMI Out (ARC) output to the TV's HDMI (ARC) port. At first, the PS4 refused to output true 4K, saying my TV didn't support it, but if I bypassed the Denon and ran the cable directly from the PS4 to the TV, the complaints went away. If I changed the setting in my Denon's Video menu to set "4K Signal Format" to "Enhanced", I was then able to output 4K video from the PS4........but as soon as I made that change, I started seeing the same audio/video dropouts you were seeing, so that wasn't a workable solution either.
> 
> What finally worked for me:
> -- I removed the brand new Premium Certified HDMI cable from the Denon's HDMI Output to TV's input. I replaced it with the standard HDMI cable that was included out of the box with the PS4 Pro. Just to be clear, this was the cable that ran from the Denon's "HDMI Out (ARC)" port to the TV's HDMI input (ARC) port.
> -- I then set the Denon receiver's Video / 4K Signal Format to "Enhanced".
> 
> The picture disappeared while the PS4 renegotiated, but then stayed on.......and continued to stay on. And the Video Output section of the PS4's Display and Sound section now showed true 4K HDR output at highest resolution.
> 
> So.....you might try running the "standard" cable included with the PS4 Pro from your Onkyo's output to your TV's input, and then checking your Onkyo's video settings to see if it has one for 4K signal format / HDMI signal format. The other two new cables (from the PS4 *to* the Denon, and from the 4K Blu-ray player to the Denon) seem to be OK, at least for me.
> 
> Bloody stupid cables.......*grumble*
> 
> cheers,
> Phil


Thanks Phil. I will get my monoprice cable today so will review. I actually have the "sony provided" cable running from the TV to the ps4 pro right now. However, it is only 6 feet long. My tv is mounted and i need 12+ ft cable to hide behind the walls so that's why i need the 15ft cable. I will try and see what happens tonight. I was told that Onkyo only supports HDR on 2 of it's inputs (BD/DVD and CBL/SAT) even though internally it says all 6 inputs have HDCP 2.2 enabled but I have been playing with the BD/DVD port all along. The CBL/SAT one has my Xb1X on it and it never had any issues with HDR even with older cables running from the Onkyo to the TV. 

Sounds like Sony is more like Apple and forced certain standards  which is good and bad i suppose. 

More to come tonight with results.


----------



## Keenan

Was there ever a second report created? The report in the first post is a year old now.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Keenan said:


> Was there ever a second report created? The report in the first post is a year old now.



I contacted them a month ago and they said they won’t be doing another report until devices start coming out supporting the new HDMI spec


----------



## Keenan

TrendSetterX said:


> I contacted them a month ago and they said they won’t be doing another report until devices start coming out supporting the new HDMI spec


Thanks!


----------



## steamroll9

madnosf said:


> Thanks Phil. I will get my monoprice cable today so will review. I actually have the "sony provided" cable running from the TV to the ps4 pro right now. However, it is only 6 feet long. My tv is mounted and i need 12+ ft cable to hide behind the walls so that's why i need the 15ft cable. I will try and see what happens tonight. I was told that Onkyo only supports HDR on 2 of it's inputs (BD/DVD and CBL/SAT) even though internally it says all 6 inputs have HDCP 2.2 enabled but I have been playing with the BD/DVD port all along. The CBL/SAT one has my Xb1X on it and it never had any issues with HDR even with older cables running from the Onkyo to the TV.
> 
> Sounds like Sony is more like Apple and forced certain standards  which is good and bad i suppose.
> 
> More to come tonight with results.


I have also had isssues with my PS4 Pro passing HDR to my LG OLED. My PS4 Pro is running through my Denon X4300H. First I had certified cables from monoprice(non-active) at 25 feet(have a long run to my components, can't help it). They would not pass HDR at all from the PS4, but would pass the highest quality output on my oppo udp-203(same with cable being directly plugged into ps4->tv). I then purchased 3 different cables to try out, each at different cost levels. 

First, Active-view cables from Monoprice 20ft(20 is enough length, just wanted a bit more with above cable, but would rather it work properly, so went with shorter): these worked and passed HDR just fine, but had a couple random handshake issues while sending HDR to LG OLED(pink snow or black screen).

Second, Fusion 4k from amazon 20ft: bit pricier, but with same result as active-view cable.

Third RUIPRO 6m Optic cable-and the good news is for me, (maybe not you cause $$$$$$) it worked. Perfectly, have not had and handshake/HDR issues. Not cheap at all, but in this case, you get what you pay for. Currently you get a free 6ft cable with the purchase of any size of this cable(just be sure to add promotion before purchasing). If it doesn't work, It's amazon, they take anything back, just tell them it doesn't work and they will cover shipping back to them. No guarantee with will work for you, but I can say it is the only cable the passed the signal properly from my PS4-->Denon Receiver-->LG OLED, was this cable, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0796NGJT7?ie=UTF8&m=A1W38LIN57HDN1

Please note, that all the above cables were able to pass the ghiest resolution possible from my OPPO UDP-203-->Denon Receiver-->LG OLED. PS4 Pro is the overall issue.


----------



## madnosf

It WORKED!!! So far i have no issues and it actually told me on PS4 Pro that i have YUV420 60hz capability at this time on current output. All previously used cables including the PS4 Pro one told me it was RGB only. 

I have the monoprice 15ft premium cable (previously linked) from TV to Onkyo and the PS4 Pro provided hdmi cable from Onkyo (BD/DVD port) to PS4. Again, I have the latest firmware on all 3 devices. 


Hope all this helps someone else.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Monoprice just released a new fiber hdmi product with detachable ends for easier pulling: 
 https://www.monoprice.com/product?...gn=180619_hdmi_detachable&deliveryName=DM2664


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Monoprice just released a new fiber hdmi product with detachable ends for easier pulling:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?...gn=180619_hdmi_detachable&deliveryName=DM2664


 DTech has a similar fiber cable as well. Mini-HDMI to a detachable standard HDMI so the cable can be used with a video camera or standard HDMI connection. It will be interesting to see if there are any issues over time due to the "extender". About $9 per foot is pretty expensive but it is fiber.


----------



## mrtickleuk

TrendSetterX said:


> Monoprice just released a new fiber hdmi product with detachable ends for easier pulling:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?...gn=180619_hdmi_detachable&deliveryName=DM2664


How much?!


----------



## mbahr

jk246 said:


> Please report back here after you have tried your RUIPro...


I installed the Ruipro with initial good results. It was very exciting to have ARC working! 

It has stopped working now. Amazon has regular audio drop-outs - like every 10 seconds. Netflix has no audio at all.

What in the world can cause this change? Is there a buffer in the cable, or something similar?

-Mike


----------



## jk246

mbahr said:


> I installed the Ruipro with initial good results. It was very exciting to have ARC working!
> 
> It has stopped working now. Amazon has regular audio drop-outs - like every 10 seconds. Netflix has no audio at all.
> 
> What in the world can cause this change? Is there a buffer in the cable, or something similar?
> 
> -Mike


Same issue I've reported here with 4 RUIPro cables (50' length). Can you post your receiver mfgr and model, TV make and model and length of cable?

jk


----------



## farsider3000

TrendSetterX said:


> Monoprice just released a new fiber hdmi product with detachable ends for easier pulling:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?...gn=180619_hdmi_detachable&deliveryName=DM2664




Wow. That is really cool. Even though I ran 2” diameter orange conduit, it’s amazing how few cables I can get through it since it spans about 25’ and has a few gentle turns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## coxy2416

farsider3000 said:


> Wow. That is really cool. Even though I ran 2” diameter orange conduit, it’s amazing how few cables I can get through it since it spans about 25’ and has a few gentle turns.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I also have a 2" conduit with 3 90 degree bends and using the Fiber Optic Cable made it a breeze to pull it through.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21568


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## Pointdexter5

I'm a total newb here, posted some questions in the past when we were in very early planning stages, and we're now finally framing. Going to need around 25 ft of cable from receiver to projector, but if we need to move around the screen that will be hanging in between the joists, I may need 30-40ft. These threads are very interesting, but I'm curious as to why report #2 was removed from the OP. I saw the update with a link to the second report, but I can not see it attached anywhere. And it appears that report #3 has not happened yet. Just curious what happened to report #2 and why it was removed.

I was leaning towards using RUIPRO 40ft to be on the safe side, going to the planned BenQ HT2550 projector, and thinking that is still a recommended option based on report #1 and the conversations after that.


----------



## drhankz

Pointdexter5 said:


> I'm a total newb here, posted some questions in the past when we were in very early planning stages, and we're now finally framing. Going to need around 25 ft of cable from receiver to projector, but if we need to move around the screen that will be hanging in between the joists, I may need 30-40ft. These threads are very interesting, but I'm curious as to why report #2 was removed from the OP. I saw the update with a link to the second report, but I can not see it attached anywhere. And it appears that report #3 has not happened yet. Just curious what happened to report #2 and why it was removed.
> 
> I was leaning towards using RUIPRO 40ft to be on the safe side, going to the planned BenQ HT2550 projector, and thinking that is still a recommended option based on report #1 and the conversations after that.


Whatever you do run any HDMI Cable in a plastic *
conduit* so it can be changed later as needed


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pointdexter5 said:


> I'm a total newb here, posted some questions in the past when we were in very early planning stages, and we're now finally framing. Going to need around 25 ft of cable from receiver to projector, but if we need to move around the screen that will be hanging in between the joists, I may need 30-40ft. These threads are very interesting, but I'm curious as to why report #2 was removed from the OP. I saw the update with a link to the second report, but I can not see it attached anywhere. And it appears that report #3 has not happened yet. Just curious what happened to report #2 and why it was removed.
> 
> I was leaning towards using RUIPRO 40ft to be on the safe side, going to the planned BenQ HT2550 projector, and thinking that is still a recommended option based on report #1 and the conversations after that.



Let me echo what drhankz just stated. Whatever you do, run a 1.5"-2.0" conduit. Using a conduit for your cable run is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because chances are you will be replacing/upgrading the cable in the future as video standards become more demanding. You can even lay in some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cabling) if you want hardwire your HTS for possible future use (HDBT?). Install a pull string as well and you are solid for the future. The use of a conduit also make it a bit easier to control bend radius which can affect the signal propagation if the bend is too drastic.


----------



## Pointdexter5

Otto Pylot said:


> Let me echo what drhankz just stated. Whatever you do, run a 1.5"-2.0" conduit. Using a conduit for your cable run is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because chances are you will be replacing/upgrading the cable in the future as video standards become more demanding. You can even lay in some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cabling) if you want hardwire your HTS for possible future use (HDBT?). Install a pull string as well and you are solid for the future. The use of a conduit also make it a bit easier to control bend radius which can affect the signal propagation if the bend is too drastic.


I am already wiring the basement with CAT6 Riser cable, that is solid core, so I was thinking about running that through a conduit with the HDMI cable, after reading this topic

https://www.amazon.com/1000ft-Unshielded-Twisted-Ethernet-trueCABLE/dp/B01JAVL5OE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

So would the RUIPRO be my best option for right now? Still not clear what happened to report 2, but based on the initial report, conversation here and other sites, many seem to indicate it is a high quality cable suitable for the set up I'm going for.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pointdexter5 said:


> I am already wiring the basement with CAT6 Riser cable, that is solid core, so I was thinking about running that through a conduit with the HDMI cable, after reading this topic
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/1000ft-Unshielded-Twisted-Ethernet-trueCABLE/dp/B01JAVL5OE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> So would the RUIPRO be my best option for right now? Still not clear what happened to report 2, but based on the initial report, conversation here and other sites, many seem to indicate it is a high quality cable suitable for the set up I'm going for.


Just to be clear, the solid core can be used with a punchdown keystone jack to extend your ethernet connection or terminated with something like HDBT to extend your HDMI connection. There is no telling what cable requirements are going to be needed for the future but the HDBT active extender may eventually be useful (once they are updated with the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets) for future standards so all you need to do is change the termination point because the cabling is already in-wall.

I think at this point in time, most folks are having the best luck with the Ruipro hybrid fiber cable. It's fairly flexible but you still want to pay close attention to the bend radius. It also might be a good idea to connect the source end directly to your tv and not thru a wall plate or splitter. 4k HDR can be a bit finicky so a direct connection, source to sink is always best.

As far as you choice for the solid core CAT-6 cable what you linked to will be sufficient. I've used similar cable before to extend my ethernet connection to hardwire my HTS well over 100' and it was rock solid. Just make sure you give yourself enough of a service loop at each end so you can easily manipulate the cable for connections. In fact I will be using similar cable to hardwire my mesh satellite unit to the main router so I can use a physical connection for the backchannel and not depend on WiFi (which works just fine) for the backchannel.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Conduit (with a pull cord)
Solid Core, non-CCA CAT6
RuiPro Hybrid Fibre HDMI

You are about as 'future proof' as is currently possible - and mirror the advice we are providing to all of our UK/EU customers.

Joe


----------



## Pointdexter5

Otto Pylot said:


> Just to be clear, the solid core can be used with a punchdown keystone jack to extend your ethernet connection or terminated with something like HDBT to extend your HDMI connection. There is no telling what cable requirements are going to be needed for the future but the HDBT active extender may eventually be useful (once they are updated with the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets) for future standards so all you need to do is change the termination point because the cabling is already in-wall.
> 
> I think at this point in time, most folks are having the best luck with the Ruipro hybrid fiber cable. It's fairly flexible but you still want to pay close attention to the bend radius. It also might be a good idea to connect the source end directly to your tv and not thru a wall plate or splitter. 4k HDR can be a bit finicky so a direct connection, source to sink is always best.
> 
> As far as you choice for the solid core CAT-6 cable what you linked to will be sufficient. I've used similar cable before to extend my ethernet connection to hardwire my HTS well over 100' and it was rock solid. Just make sure you give yourself enough of a service loop at each end so you can easily manipulate the cable for connections. In fact I will be using similar cable to hardwire my mesh satellite unit to the main router so I can use a physical connection for the backchannel and not depend on WiFi (which works just fine) for the backchannel.


The HDMI connection to the projector would come directly from the receiver, which would feed all output devices (TV & projector) and have the 4K input devices as the source connected to it. At least that was the goal, as the TV is not 4K, but the bluray player would be. The TV is older and just for standard HD. The projector would be used for movies and hide the TV when the screen is extended.


----------



## Joe Fernand

You could struggle with Source devices not auto configuring between 1080p and 2160p based on the 'active' Sink (Display) device - if your AVR has the ability to toggle its HDMI Output between HDMI A and HDMI B rather than always being HDMI A + B you may be OK.

Joe


----------



## Pointdexter5

Joe Fernand said:


> You could struggle with Source devices not auto configuring between 1080p and 2160p based on the 'active' Sink (Display) device - if your AVR has the ability to toggle its HDMI Output between HDMI A and HDMI B rather than always being HDMI A + B you may be OK.
> 
> Joe


I'm probably too much of a newb yet to fully understand what too look for here when looking at AVRs and bluray players to avoid issues here.


----------



## Buddylee123

@ARROW-AV, have you considered testing the UGREEN fiber optic cable? It's 99 bucks for a 30ft cable on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Suppo...TF8&qid=1534345117&sr=8-6&keywords=fiber+hdmi

https://www.ugreen.com/product/1389-en.html#ad-image-0


----------



## Otto Pylot

Buddylee123 said:


> @ARROW-AV, have you considered testing the UGREEN fiber optic cable? It's 99 bucks for a 30ft cable on Amazon.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Suppo...TF8&qid=1534345117&sr=8-6&keywords=fiber+hdmi
> 
> https://www.ugreen.com/product/1389-en.html#ad-image-0


The cable appears to be an active cable (one end is labeled as Display) but there is no mention of that in the cable description other than it's a "one-way only cable". So that begs the question as to which version of HDMI chipsets are being used in the source end. The cable is listed as "Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 2.0", which could be misinterpreted as an "HDMI 2.0 cable", of which there is no such thing. Any cable mfr who labels their cables as "HDMI 2.0" is suspect. No mention of certification either. There's a reason why a 30' fiber cable is only $100. UGREEN Limited is a Chinese-based company which makes lots of other consumer products in addition to cables. The cable could work just fine but without knowing which version of chipsets are being used in the sink end, it may not last long, and with only an 18 month warranty (which is odd), I'd be surprised if the "fiber" was not plastic instead of glass. AV-ARROW only tested cables from known, reputable mfrs/resellers.


----------



## Buddylee123

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable appears to be an active cable (one end is labeled as Display) but there is no mention of that in the cable description other than it's a "one-way only cable". So that begs the question as to which version of HDMI chipsets are being used in the source end. The cable is listed as "Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 2.0", which could be misinterpreted as an "HDMI 2.0 cable", of which there is no such thing. Any cable mfr who labels their cables as "HDMI 2.0" is suspect. No mention of certification either. There's a reason why a 30' fiber cable is only $100. UGREEN Limited is a Chinese-based company which makes lots of other consumer products in addition to cables. The cable could work just fine but without knowing which version of chipsets are being used in the sink end, it may not last long, and with only an 18 month warranty (which is odd), I'd be surprised if the "fiber" was not plastic instead of glass. AV-ARROW only tested cables from known, reputable mfrs/resellers.


That does seem fishy. Guess I will have to spend the extra money


----------



## Otto Pylot

Buddylee123 said:


> That does seem fishy. Guess I will have to spend the extra money


I'm very suspicious of cable mfr claims, even the way overpriced cable from known mfrs such as AudioQuest and Monster. Being as you're looking at a 30' run hopefully you can or will install it in a conduit because swapping out the cable at a later date (which is likely) will be so much easier. It's also easier to control bend radius.


----------



## Harbinger27

Just wanted to say thanks for having this thread and information available! It helped me select a cable for a 20-25' run.


----------



## RobertR

Can anyone point me to a report on testing of 25 foot 4K cables, or is it all nothing more than hit or miss anecdotes for that type of cable?


----------



## coxy2416

RobertR said:


> Can anyone point me to a report on testing of 25 foot 4K cables, or is it all nothing more than hit or miss anecdotes for that type of cable?


For what reason do you want to test a 4K cable? Do you currently own one or are you looking to purchase one? They either work or they don't!

I have this Monoprice 50ft cable and I haven't had any issues with it:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21568&seq=1&format=2


----------



## RobertR

coxy2416 said:


> For what reason do you want to test a 4K cable? Do you currently own one or are you looking to purchase one? They either work or they don't!
> 
> I have this Monoprice 50ft cable and I haven't had any issues with it:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21568&seq=1&format=2


I'm thinking of buying one. So the advice is "no test report, you're on your own, just buy something and hope it works"?


----------



## coxy2416

RobertR said:


> I'm thinking of buying one. So the advice is "no test report, you're on your own, just buy something and hope it works"?


Any Premium Certified HDMI cable will work. If it is not certified then it can be a gamble.

This cable would work just fine for you:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


----------



## RobertR

coxy2416 said:


> Any Premium Certified HDMI cable will work. If it is not certified then it can be a gamble.


I'm aware of "cable certification", but I've seen posts here on AVS that state people have tried "certified cables", and some of them have failed. So it appears that certification is a guarantee of nothing. I was just hoping there's a list of 25 ft. cables that are _known_ to work based on independent testing, rather than a label.


----------



## coxy2416

RobertR said:


> I'm aware of "cable certification", but I've seen posts here on AVS that state people have tried "certified cables", and some of them have failed. So it appears that certification is a guarantee of nothing. I was just hoping there's a list of 25 ft. cables that are _known_ to work based on independent testing, rather than a label.


Well the Monoprice cable that I recommended will only cost $19.99 and is fully refundable if it does not work. What do you have to lose???

Or you can go ahead and get the fiber cable that I am using and I can guarantee you that it will work but I needed a longer run then you. If it where my money and I was you I would go with the $19.99 cable and call it a day. I have a few 6ft version of that exact cable and they work flawlessly.


----------



## RobertR

coxy2416 said:


> Well the Monoprice cable that I recommended will only cost $19.99 and is fully refundable if it does not work. What do you have to lose???


What I have to lose is time, frustration, and the hassle of having to try something else and hoping the _next_ thing will work. I was just trying to avoid that, but it looks like I have no reason to think I can. Oh well......


----------



## coxy2416

RobertR said:


> What I have to lose is time, frustration, and the hassle of having to try something else and hoping the _next_ thing will work. I was just trying to avoid that, but it looks like I have no reason to think I can. Oh well......


I just gave you 2 cables that will work so what's the issue? They are certified premium cables and I own both versions and they both work with all 4K content!


----------



## farsider3000

RobertR said:


> Can anyone point me to a report on testing of 25 foot 4K cables, or is it all nothing more than hit or miss anecdotes for that type of cable?


I have shifted all my cables to fiber optic. I have a 50ft mono price fiber to the projector and I also use a 75ft fiber from mono price for testing that sends 4k HDR with no issues. For my shorter runs I use Ruipro fiber, also with no issues.


----------



## farsider3000

RobertR said:


> What I have to lose is time, frustration, and the hassle of having to try something else and hoping the _next_ thing will work. I was just trying to avoid that, but it looks like I have no reason to think I can. Oh well......


You can avoid the frustration by listening to Coxy or spending a bit more money and go with fiber from either Ruipro or the monoprice cable in the report at on the first page of this thread.


----------



## RobertR

farsider3000 said:


> You can avoid the frustration by listening to Coxy or spending a bit more money and go with fiber from either Ruipro or the monoprice cable in the report at on the first page of this thread.


I appreciate Coxy's input, and I will try the cable he recommends. The report you referenced specifically states that it references *15m/50ft.+ cables, * NOT the 25 ft. cables I'm interested in. That's why I asked if there was such a report for *25 ft. cables.* It appears there isn't. There's supposed to be one "coming". That was 15 months ago.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RobertR said:


> I'm aware of "cable certification", but I've seen posts here on AVS that state people have tried "certified cables", and some of them have failed. So it appears that certification is a guarantee of nothing. I was just hoping there's a list of 25 ft. cables that are _known_ to work based on independent testing, rather than a label.


A Premium High Speed HDMI cable is a copper-based cable that is tested and certified by an ATC (the program designed and approved by HDMI.org). Any cable mfr can have their cables tested by an ATC if they are willing to pay for the service. The testing protocols are standardized so regardless of the mfr and/or reseller, if it has the QR label (for authenticity) then you know it's been tested properly and reliably. The certification is only good to 25' and has recently been pushed to 30'. There are other factors involved besides the cable that will make for a successful cable run. That's why no one can give you a 100% guarantee that a cable, even certified, will work for any given setup. If all you're going to push is 4k and your run is under 25', then just about any well made cable will work (again depending on how it's installed). 4k HDR over about 20' will almost require one to use a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro) because those are getting the most positive feedback from actual users here.

HDMI chipsets on your source/sink end, bend radius, switches, etc all play a part in a successful run. Any in-wall installation should be done with the use of a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because you will more than likely be swapping out cables again in the future.

Bottom line, cabling for 4k HDR over 20' is always going to be hit and miss to a certain degree, especially if you want to use copper-based cables. Hybrid fiber is what is most often recommended, but it's expensive. For 4k HDR under 25', then just go with an ATC certified cable because that will give you the best chance of success, but won't be a guaranteed success for the reasons I gave.


----------



## RobertR

Otto Pylot said:


> A Premium High Speed HDMI cable is a copper-based cable that is tested and certified by an ATC (the program designed and approved by HDMI.org). Any cable mfr can have their cables tested by an ATC if they are willing to pay for the service. The testing protocols are standardized so regardless of the mfr and/or reseller, if it has the QR label (for authenticity) then you know it's been tested properly and reliably. The certification is only good to 25' and has recently been pushed to 30'. There are other factors involved besides the cable that will make for a successful cable run. That's why no one can give you a 100% guarantee that a cable, even certified, will work for any given setup. If all you're going to push is 4k and your run is under 25', then just about any well made cable will work (again depending on how it's installed). 4k HDR over about 20' will almost require one to use a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro) because those are getting the most positive feedback from actual users here.
> 
> HDMI chipsets on your source/sink end, bend radius, switches, etc all play a part in a successful run. Any in-wall installation should be done with the use of a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because you will more than likely be swapping out cables again in the future.
> 
> Bottom line, cabling for 4k HDR over 20' is always going to be hit and miss to a certain degree, especially if you want to use copper-based cables. Hybrid fiber is what is most often recommended, but it's expensive.


Thank you, the technical information is much appreciated. The bottom line seems to be that the only way to know for sure is to try it and see, regardless of reports, testing, or even the experiences of others.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RobertR said:


> Thank you, the technical information is much appreciated. The bottom line seems to be that the only way to know for sure is to try it and see, regardless of reports, testing, or even the experiences of others.


Yep. Unfortunately that's the nature of this mess we call HDMI.


----------



## dmbmay98

I bought the rui 12 meter fiber cable and it would not work with my nad receiver to my projector (yes I ensured source went to source and display to display). I ended up getting the rocketfish 50ft hdmi fiber cable at Bestbuy and it actually worked. It is more ft than I need but so far it is working great.


----------



## gmalla

jk246 said:


> mbahr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I installed the Ruipro with initial good results. It was very exciting to have ARC working!
> 
> It has stopped working now. Amazon has regular audio drop-outs - like every 10 seconds. Netflix has no audio at all.
> 
> What in the world can cause this change? Is there a buffer in the cable, or something similar?
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Same issue I've reported here with 4 RUIPro cables (50' length). Can you post your receiver mfgr and model, TV make and model and length of cable?
> 
> jk
Click to expand...


Same arc audio drop outs for me with the ruipro. Lg c8. Denon 4300h. 

Just got the cable a few days ago so it should be the latest version. 

4K hdr works great.


----------



## jk246

gmalla said:


> Same arc audio drop outs for me with the ruipro. Lg c8. Denon 4300h.
> 
> Just got the cable a few days ago so it should be the latest version.
> 
> 4K hdr works great.


The signal paths for the video portion of the signal are optical, the signal path for arc is metal conductor. It's difficult to for a wire HDMI cable to do 4k beyond 20'-25' reliably, even one where the signal paths are equalized... you might get streaming 4k to work but when you try to play a UHD disc with high bandwidth audio like DTS or ATMOS, it might work depending on what the audio content is, it might have periodic dropouts with varying periods between dropouts in the audio, and I'm talking about Certified cables with 24 or 26AWG conductors. The RUIPro's ARC conductors are pretty thin, in the original release they were not shielded and RUIPro added shielding in the 2nd gen (or so they told me) and I don't think they're coaxial, so the line impedance is not controlled, and over that length of of cable the signal distortion is probably pretty horrendous due to the impedance mismatch through their cable. 

I have 2 of the 2nd gen cables that I received after I reported 1st gen issues, they don't work much better for ARC than the 1st gens, but they've worked fine for 4k video, I use them for sending my WMC DVR & JRiver MC directly to an LG OLED; however, I noticed when looking at settings in the NVidia video card app in Control Panel that the HDCP status in one shows it's good for one RUIPro cable, but not for the other; both cables are 15m gen 2. Both video cards were EVGA GTX-960's, and updating them to GTX-1070's made no difference. Haven't tried swapping the cables or inputs yet, but will report back if that makes a difference.


----------



## gmalla

jk246 said:


> gmalla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same arc audio drop outs for me with the ruipro. Lg c8. Denon 4300h.
> 
> Just got the cable a few days ago so it should be the latest version.
> 
> 4K hdr works great.
> 
> 
> 
> The signal paths for the video portion of the signal are optical, the signal path for arc is metal conductor. It's difficult to for a wire HDMI cable to do 4k beyond 20'-25' reliably, even one where the signal paths are equalized... you might get streaming 4k to work but when you try to play a UHD disc with high bandwidth audio like DTS or ATMOS, it might work depending on what the audio content is, it might have periodic dropouts with varying periods between dropouts in the audio, and I'm talking about Certified cables with 24 or 26AWG conductors. The RUIPro's ARC conductors are pretty thin, in the original release they were not shielded and RUIPro added shielding in the 2nd gen (or so they told me) and I don't think they're coaxial, so the line impedance is not controlled, and over that length of of cable the signal distortion is probably pretty horrendous due to the impedance mismatch through their cable.
> 
> I have 2 of the 2nd gen cables that I received after I reported 1st gen issues, they don't work much better for ARC than the 1st gens, but they've worked fine for 4k video, I use them for sending my WMC DVR & JRiver MC directly to an LG OLED; however, I noticed when looking at settings in the NVidia video card app in Control Panel that the HDCP status in one shows it's good for one RUIPro cable, but not for the other; both cables are 15m gen 2. Both video cards were EVGA GTX-960's, and updating them to GTX-1070's made no difference. Haven't tried swapping the cables or inputs yet, but will report back if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention that optical over arc works great but with the downside that I can’t get Atmos over lossy DD+. 

I’m using the 15m ruipro cable btw. May return it for a shorter version unless someone who has had arc success with a diff fiber cable chimes in.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gmalla said:


> Forgot to mention that optical over arc works great but with the downside that I can’t get Atmos over lossy DD+.
> 
> I’m using the 15m ruipro cable btw. May return it for a shorter version unless someone who has had arc success with a diff fiber cable chimes in.


ARC is still iffy for a lot of longer cables, even the hybrid fiber ones. eARC, which will access the never-used ethernet channel on High Speed HDMI cables will be a feature of HDMI 2.1 once the new consumer devices are available. However, all of your HDMI connected devices will also have to have the newest HDMI 2.1 chipsets for it to work. Lossless Atmos should also be available then as well but until the new chipsets are in the consumers hands, and the hybrid fiber cables are installed, no one really knows how they will perform.


----------



## gmalla

gmalla said:


> Forgot to mention that optical over arc works great but with the downside that I can’t get Atmos over lossy DD+.
> 
> I’m using the 15m ruipro cable btw. May return it for a shorter version unless someone who has had arc success with a diff fiber cable chimes in.


Just got a replacement 15M cable from ruipro with the same results - constant arc audio drop outs every few seconds. 4k HDR works great.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gmalla said:


> Just got a replacement 15M cable from ruipro with the same results - constant arc audio drop outs every few seconds. 4k HDR works great.


ARC, are present, is difficult because of distance. As I mentioned, that is supposed to be "fixed" with HDMI 2.1 by using eARC but until then, you're best off to use an optical cable, but the best you will get is 5.1 or possibly lossy Atmos depending on your system.


----------



## gmalla

Apparently that is the case at long cable lengths 

Ruipro sent me a second cable which didn’t work for arc and a third ‘custom’ cable which also had arc drop outs. Tried a furui cable wtih the same results. These were all 50 feet cables. 

All 4 cables were fine with 4K uhd content.

I’ll try a shorter fiber cable and report back 






Otto Pylot said:


> gmalla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got a replacement 15M cable from ruipro with the same results - constant arc audio drop outs every few seconds. 4k HDR works great.
> 
> 
> 
> ARC, are present, is difficult because of distance. As I mentioned, that is supposed to be "fixed" with HDMI 2.1 by using eARC but until then, you're best off to use an optical cable, but the best you will get is 5.1 or possibly lossy Atmos depending on your system.
Click to expand...


----------



## Otto Pylot

gmalla said:


> Apparently that is the case at long cable lengths
> 
> Ruipro sent me a second cable which didn’t work for arc and a third ‘custom’ cable which also had arc drop outs. Tried a furui cable wtih the same results. These were all 50 feet cables.
> 
> All 4 cables were fine with 4K uhd content.
> 
> I’ll try a shorter fiber cable and report back


Unfortunately at this point in time, as we have mentioned, ARC realistically over 30' or 40' can be hit and miss. And if it does work at 50', there's no guarantee that it will continue to work. This will more than likely continue to be a problem until HDMI 2.1 arrives with eARC. However, if not all of your connected devices have compliant HDMI 2.1, you'll still be stuck.


----------



## azz7686

I have the ruipro 50' and ARC works going back to my OPPO 203, I haven't had any problems and have had it for 3-4 months now! Guess it could be hit or miss and I am on my 2nd one cause first wouldnt pass 600mhz true 4K.

I think the problem was the power @ TV wasnt good enough after reading thru forums I re-bought the Ruipro with the HDMI power inserter off the usb and with this combination its been flawless!


----------



## giomania

I also just started using an HDMI voltage inserter for my 50’ Ruipro to solve some issues I was having with a Matrix switch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

azz7686 said:


> I have the ruipro 50' and ARC works going back to my OPPO 203, I haven't had any problems and have had it for 3-4 months now! Guess it could be hit or miss and I am on my 2nd one cause first wouldnt pass 600mhz true 4K.
> 
> I think the problem was the power @ TV wasnt good enough after reading thru forums I re-bought the Ruipro with the HDMI power inserter off the usb and with this combination its been flawless!


Converting a passive hybrid fiber cable to an active one can, and obviously in your case, work. As long as the "active" portion can maintain the correct error correction, timing, etc you should be fine for now.


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## azz7686

Yeah key word, for now!


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> Converting a passive hybrid fiber cable to an active one can, and obviously in your case, work. As long as the "active" portion can maintain the correct error correction, timing, etc you should be fine for now.




Does the cable exhibit signal degradation over time, or are you referring to the challenges forthcoming with HDMI 2.1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Does the cable exhibit signal degradation over time, or are you referring to the challenges forthcoming with HDMI 2.1?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


There are still lots of active cables out there that are only capable of successfully transmitting HDMI 1.4a or HDMI 2.0. It's very hard to find out which chipset versions they have on board. If they work, then you're ok. An active cable will either work or not. If it starts to degrade you more than likely get sparkles etc. I think it's fair to say that most active cables last for a long time but it is something to consider and keep in the back of your mind if you do start to have issues.

HDMI 2.1 is a totally different matter. We hope that a cable like a hybrid fiber cable will be up to the challenge but HDMI.org has not changed the maximum cable length specification yet ( 3' - 9') for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 so it's anybody's guess as to whether a hybrid fiber cable, coupled with an active extender will work or not.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The RuiPro Voltage Inserter is a handy option where power starvation is causing problems - we have only had to send out a handful of them and in my testing I find they are best used at the Sink (Display) end of the cable and I find it best to use a fully regulated external PSU rather than rely on the TV or Projector USB port.

Joe


----------



## giomania

Joe Fernand said:


> The RuiPro Voltage Inserter is a handy option where power starvation is causing problems - we have only had to send out a handful of them and in my testing I find they are best used at the Sink (Display) end of the cable and I find it best to use a fully regulated external PSU rather than rely on the TV or Projector USB port.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe




I have a Ruipro 50-foot cable and a Monoprice Blackbird 8 x 8 HDMI matrix switch. The switch is apparently causing power starvation problems because I wasn’t able to pass 4K 60 through it until I used a voltage inserter. 4K 60 passed through the video chain with the Ruipro cable connected directly to the Apple TV 4K.

I was pulling my hair out for a while, and was ready to exchange the switch for a new one until I saw a post in the HDfury thread about someone else having an issue with the same Ruipro cable, and that a voltage inserter solved his problems. I figured it’s worth $10 to try and solve the problem.

I am using the voltage inserter on the source end of the cable, however. I am using an external power supply; a spare 5VDC, 1A Fire HD tablet power supply.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ClayM325

I was about to order the ruipro but just read all the issues people are having With audio. Any video problems? I just need a 35ft to run video to my projector from my Receiver so the audio dropouts won’t have any effect on me correct ?


----------



## TrendSetterX

ClayM325 said:


> I was about to order the ruipro but just read all the issues people are having With audio. Any video problems? I just need a 35ft to run video to my projector from my Receiver so the audio dropouts won’t have any effect on me correct ?


i think the audio issues are just on the return audio side (TV back to the receiver). As long as you’re not using/needing ARC, you’ll be fine.


----------



## StevenC56

If you don't need ARC, then the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR fiber optic works well.


----------



## Gooddoc

HDMI is a ridiculous joke of a standard that will hinder the adoption of upcoming displays. I cannot upgrade my TV or projector since apparently the technology doesn't exist to reliably get a signal across the length of a typical residential room. Lol


----------



## ClayM325

StevenC56 said:


> If you don't need ARC, then the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR fiber optic works well.


I was looking at that one, but my absolute minimum length is 32’, so I’d have to get 50’ and don’t want that much added length


----------



## StevenC56

ClayM325 said:


> I was looking at that one, but my absolute minimum length is 32’, so I’d have to get 50’ and don’t want that much added length


They have a 40' length.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21568


----------



## jk246

gmalla said:


> Apparently that is the case at long cable lengths
> 
> Ruipro sent me a second cable which didn’t work for arc and a third ‘custom’ cable which also had arc drop outs. Tried a furui cable wtih the same results. These were all 50 feet cables.
> 
> All 4 cables were fine with 4K uhd content.
> 
> I’ll try a shorter fiber cable and report back


Exactly same results I got with 'custom' cables from RUIPro, gmalla... and with original ones as well. And they all work perfectly for 4k UHD and 4:4:4 content.


----------



## ScottAvery

StevenC56 said:


> If you don't need ARC, then the Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR fiber optic works well.


ARC is only needed for a display that has its own tuner/apps?


----------



## TrendSetterX

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



ScottAvery said:


> ARC is only needed for a display that has its own tuner/apps?


ARC is only needed if you want to use your display’s tuner and/or apps with audio to your audio system.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottAvery said:


> ARC is only needed for a display that has its own tuner/apps?


To clarify, one can use an optical audio cable from the tv to the receiver for 5.1 audio transmitted from the tv's SmartApps and/or OTA television. You don't need ARC (Audio Return Channel) to accomplish that. Think of an optical cable as uni-directional audio (tv to receiver) and ARC as bi-directional audio.


----------



## jong1

And then, only if your display supports DD+/Atmos over ARC AND that is important to you. Otherwise, running a separate (very cheap) optical cable for audio return path makes things so much more straightforward and reliable!

Personally I prefer to buy other devices, such as Apple TV, for audio better than Dolby Digital available over regular ARC and optical, to keep my display's return path simple. Maybe that will change with eARC/HDMI 2.1, but even that is uncertain at the moment.


----------



## yosh7

I am going to be getting a 20 Meter (65 foot) Ruipro Fiber optic HDMI cable but would also like to run some solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a. Any comments on going with 6 vs 6a in terms of future proofing. And I would like to buy TERMINATED patch cord. Was thinking Blue Jeans but I didn't see if it was solid core and it seemed very expensive. 

Can anyone post links or recommend brands that would have good terminated, solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a?

And I also plan on putting in conduit per your great recommendations here!


----------



## Otto Pylot

yosh7 said:


> I am going to be getting a 20 Meter (65 foot) Ruipro Fiber optic HDMI cable but would also like to run some solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a. Any comments on going with 6 vs 6a in terms of future proofing. And I would like to buy TERMINATED patch cord. Was thinking Blue Jeans but I didn't see if it was solid core and it seemed very expensive.
> 
> Can anyone post links or recommend brands that would have good terminated, solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a?
> 
> And I also plan on putting in conduit per your great recommendations here!


Solid core CAT-6a is probably an overkill so I would just stick with solid core CAT-6. The ONLY way to future proof is to run your cable in a conduit because you just don't know what future video specs will require in terms of connection technology.

Why do you want to run terminated ethernet patch cable for 65'. If you want to extend an ethernet connection, you can just use the solid core CAT-6 and terminate yourself with punchdown keystone jacks. I've done that with two runs, both over 100' and the ethernet connection is perfect. If you want to use the solid core CAT-6 for an HDMI connection, you can just terminate with an active termination point like HDBT.

Just make sure that the solid core CAT-6 cable you purchase is not CCA cable (Copper Clad Aluminum) and is 23 AWG. Sewell makes a good solid core CAT-6 sold in boxes of 250' or 100'.


----------



## giomania

yosh7 said:


> I am going to be getting a 20 Meter (65 foot) Ruipro Fiber optic HDMI cable but would also like to run some solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a. Any comments on going with 6 vs 6a in terms of future proofing. And I would like to buy TERMINATED patch cord. Was thinking Blue Jeans but I didn't see if it was solid core and it seemed very expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone post links or recommend brands that would have good terminated, solid core, shielded cat 6 or 6a?
> 
> 
> 
> And I also plan on putting in conduit per your great recommendations here!




Since you researched BJC, why not go with the Belden bonded pair cable they use for their patch cables. Belden makes nice patch cables, and I have a lot of them. BJC patch cords were a little too expensive, IMHO, but that is due to the US manufacturing and individual testing. Belden part numbers are needed to search for retailers, so check if they have a 65-foot length first and Google the pet number.

https://www.belden.com/products/enterprise/copper/patch-cords/cat-6


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Joe Fernand

ClayM325 - _'all the problems'_. As annoying as they are for the folk who report them the number of folk with ARC issues vs. the installed RuiPro cable base is tiny and as others have said ARC has its own set of issues (no matter which cable you use) and for many folk who do need to bring audio back from a TV then Optical is often a far better option.

yoush7 - if you plan to use the CAT cable as a backup for HDMI I would go solid core, non-CCA CAT6, we use the Blackbox GigaTrue for all of our HDBT installations.

Joe


----------



## leung19

Hello quick newbie question here,
I assume both the monoprice and Ruipro support 3D correct? 
If I'm running everything thru my receiver, I'm using my PJ as just video output, I don't have to worry about ARC right?


----------



## jong1

Yes and yes 🙂


----------



## Gellert1

Simple question for the gurus in here.
I am upgrading all my HDMI cables to fiber optic. I am planning to run them like this:

1) From cable box out to receiver in
2) From Amazon Fire TV out to receiver in
3) From Blu Ray player out to receiver in
4) From receiver out to Darbee DVP 5000S in
5) From Darbee out to projector in

I will have five spools of 30 meter fiber optic HDMI cable to connect everything. I know it's unnecessary to have it that long for the short connections going to the receiver, but that's what I'm working with.

My two questions: Will 300' of optic fiber HDMI cable (from source to screen) look the same as only 30' of the same cable? Also, if I only need to run a 3' HDMI cable from my four components to/from the receiver, can I get away with using only a "regular" non-fiber optic cable? And if so, how will I know if it's the same quality as the 100' fiber optic cables?

Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

There are no guarantees with cabling regardless of what the mfr states. Ideally, you want to keep the distance to a minimum and still be mindful of bend radius. For the short lengths (3') you could probably get away with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC with a QR label of authenticity). The longer lengths I would suggest a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro gets some really good reviews by AVS users).

There is no way to know prior to installation if 300' will look as good as 30'. Distance is the achilles heel of 4k HDR cabling so the suggestion to keep your distances to a minimum should be heeded. My feeling is that you would be best off to purchase a little more length than you need (for bend radius) to give you the best chance of a successful cable run. Also, if you are planning on any in-wall installations, a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit is almost a requirement for safe installation, cable maintenance, and replacement if necessary. The use of a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. And using a hybrid fiber cable is about the best you can do. But again, there are no guarantees. I would not use a copper only HDMI cable for 4k HDR for lengths over about 20' - 25'.

Hybrid fiber cable is not cheap, and we can appreciate the fact that you already have a bunch of fiber cable but realistically you might be better off to purchase what you need, at the lengths you need, from someone like Ruipro or other hybrid fiber cable mfr.


----------



## tomta

Probably a stupid question but since our walls are white and the cables will be going from the cabinet with the game consoles to the video projector and to the tv by going around ours doors (and as such being visible), I'm looking for some white hdmi cables that support 18gbps. At least the distance is not too big, since we only need 7 meters for each cable.

Any recommandations? I was this close to buying the monoprice cables until I realized that my girlfriend would not be ok with them in our living room.

I can't imagine that I'm the only one with this issue. White walls don't seem to be rare?


----------



## Otto Pylot

As far as 18Gbps goes, a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label for authenticity) is about as close of a guarantee that you're going to get for being tested and certified to meet the HDMI 2.0b hardware specs. However, it's not a 100% guarantee because bend radius, HDMI chipset versions at the source/sink end, etc also play a part in a successful cable connection. Look at BJC for white cables. I purchased white, Premium High Speed HDMI cables but the lengths were under 10'. I didn't look at the longer lengths (21' is starting to push it) so I'd start there first. If you have to go around a door frame the bend radius may be an issue, especially if you need to tack the cable down to keep it in place.

You also might want to consider some sort of white, hollow moulding or cable chase that you could lay your cable in for a cleaner installation look.


----------



## LondonBenji

The Monoprice 21566 - 21569 cable rates really well in this report but if you go on their site, multiple people are saying that ARC doesn't work, can anyone confirm this?


----------



## tomta

LondonBenji said:


> The Monoprice 21566 - 21569 cable rates really well in this report but if you go on their site, multiple people are saying that ARC doesn't work, can anyone confirm this?



It's also listed in the report as not working. The ruipo supports ARC


----------



## LondonBenji

tomta said:


> It's also listed in the report as not working. The ruipo supports ARC


Well that's embarrassing, reading comprehension fail on my part, sorry about that and thank you!

So here's a question that's likely to get a "we won't know yet" answer:

Of the cables that support ARC, what are the chances of them being able to automagically support eARC when it becomes a thing? As I understand it, eARC just uses the Ethernet channel of the HDMI cable but I'm not sure the truth in that and if there are specific "Ethernet enabled" HDMI cables?

I'm in a pickle because I need eARC and I have to bury the cable in the walls in the next week or two....


----------



## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> Well that's embarrassing, reading comprehension fail on my part, sorry about that and thank you!
> 
> So here's a question that's likely to get a "we won't know yet" answer:
> 
> Of the cables that support ARC, what are the chances of them being able to automagically support eARC when it becomes a thing? As I understand it, eARC just uses the Ethernet channel of the HDMI cable but I'm not sure the truth in that and if there are specific "Ethernet enabled" HDMI cables?
> 
> I'm in a pickle because I need eARC and I have to bury the cable in the walls in the next week or two....


eARC will use the un-used ethernet channel of current High Speed HDMI cables if your source/sink HDMI chipsets support eARC. eARC is a function of the HDMI chipset, not necessarily the cable. If you're going to install your cabling in-wall then the ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to install 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. That way you can easily upgrade/replace your cabling as needed. If your cable run is going to be over about 20' I'd seriously consider using a hybrid fiber cable such as the one offered by Ruipro. Also be mindful of bend radius when you run your cabling.


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## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> eARC will use the un-used ethernet channel of current High Speed HDMI cables if your source/sink HDMI chipsets support eARC. eARC is a function of the HDMI chipset, not necessarily the cable. If you're going to install your cabling in-wall then the ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to install 1.5" - 2.0" conduit. That way you can easily upgrade/replace your cabling as needed. If your cable run is going to be over about 20' I'd seriously consider using a hybrid fiber cable such as the one offered by Ruipro. Also be mindful of bend radius when you run your cabling.


The run will definitely be over 20', I've used Celerity fiber cables in the past and really like them but it's a shame that they aren't the top dog in the report. For some of the route, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get a 1.5-2" conduit in and/or the bend radius/number of bends is going to make it nigh on impossible to pull something through.

I'm going to call Celerity today because I've spoken to their engineers before and they are great to talk to, otherwise the Ruipro cable does look nice. Shame the Monoprice doesn't support ARC otherwise that's one hell of a great cable.


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## LondonBenji

The irony is, the Monoprice cable DOES support Ethernet over HDMI so may well end up supporting eARC!


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## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> The irony is, the Monoprice cable DOES support Ethernet over HDMI so may well end up supporting eARC!


HDMI with ethernet has been an HDMI protocol for quite sometime now. It's just that none of the device mfrs embraced that protocol so there are no commercial devices that take advantage of that protocol. Do keep in mind that eARC is a function of the HDMI chipset, not really the cable, so if you can't upgrade the HDMI chipsets in your source and sink devices, you won't be able to take advantage of eARC because it is a sub-set of the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol. The cable is just the data pipe. ARC over long distances with copper-only cables has been as issue in the past, and now that 4k HDR is upon us, it has become even more problematic because of the higher video standards and requirements. 

With regards to your other post, bend radius is very important if you want to push 4k HDR over a long distance. A 90 degree bend may be problematic down the road so just keep that in mind. You should lay whatever hybrid fiber you get on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. If it works during the testing phase but you develop problems after installation then something happened during the installation (too many or to sharp of a bend radius, the cable was damaged while being pulled, etc). Long cable runs are the achilles heel of 4k HDR and HDMI.


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## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI with ethernet has been an HDMI protocol for quite sometime now. It's just that none of the device mfrs embraced that protocol so there are no commercial devices that take advantage of that protocol. Do keep in mind that eARC is a function of the HDMI chipset, not really the cable, so if you can't upgrade the HDMI chipsets in your source and sink devices, you won't be able to take advantage of eARC because it is a sub-set of the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol. The cable is just the data pipe. ARC over long distances with copper-only cables has been as issue in the past, and now that 4k HDR is upon us, it has become even more problematic because of the higher video standards and requirements.
> 
> With regards to your other post, bend radius is very important if you want to push 4k HDR over a long distance. A 90 degree bend may be problematic down the road so just keep that in mind. You should lay whatever hybrid fiber you get on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. If it works during the testing phase but you develop problems after installation then something happened during the installation (too many or to sharp of a bend radius, the cable was damaged while being pulled, etc). Long cable runs are the achilles heel of 4k HDR and HDMI.


Yep, understood, my predicament here is whether or not eARC _will _require and adjustments to cables. Since I'm not well versed in the details of how eARC works (just some comments that it apparently uses the existing Ethernet channel on the cable) I am purely speculating and asking if anyone knows more than me, to make and educated answer that say for example, while the Monoprice cable doesn't support ARC, since eARC uses the Ethernet channel (for definite) the Monoprice WILL ultimately support eARC.

While eARC is supposed to be HDMI2.1, it HAS been enabled on HDMI2.0 chipsets, so there are a couple of devices out there that _do_ already support it (Sony's new Master series TVs and certain existing sound bars/receivers).

I get that I need to be careful with installation and test before hand but I basically have one shot to get it right in the next couple of weeks and unfortunately I neither have the Sony TV or soundbar to test eARC specifically.


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## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> Yep, understood, my predicament here is whether or not eARC _will _require and adjustments to cables. Since I'm not well versed in the details of how eARC works (just some comments that it apparently uses the existing Ethernet channel on the cable) I am purely speculating and asking if anyone knows more than me, to make and educated answer that say for example, while the Monoprice cable doesn't support ARC, since eARC uses the Ethernet channel (for definite) the Monoprice WILL ultimately support eARC.
> 
> While eARC is supposed to be HDMI2.1, it HAS been enabled on HDMI2.0 chipsets, so there are a couple of devices out there that _do_ already support it (Sony's new Master series TVs and certain existing sound bars/receivers).
> 
> I get that I need to be careful with installation and test before hand but I basically have one shot to get it right in the next couple of weeks and unfortunately I neither have the Sony TV or soundbar to test eARC specifically.


There are no 100% guarantees, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. I haven't heard definitively that eARC has been reliably enabled on HDMI 2.0 chipsets. Those chipsets were incorporated into devices long before the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols were even ratified and the chip designs sent to the chip mfrs. Maybe some tv's mfr'd this year with the HDMI 2.0b chipsets are capable of firmware upgrade to eARC, but I haven't heard of any, yet. Just because the HDMI cable is capable of ARC (most are) that is no guarantee that it will work reliably for eARC (probably, but....).

I understand your dilemmas but you will not get a definitive answer because HDMI 2.1, eARC (and even CEC Extensions for that matter) still do not have a testing/certification process finalized (designed by HDMI.org) so how well it will work "in the wild" is unknown. As to the actual cables, your best bet is to figure out how to install a conduit so you can run a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro appears to have success as reported on AVS with ARC over longer distances) as well as a solid core CAT-6 cable (not CCA and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable). The solid core CAT-6 can be terminated with HDBT (active termination) as soon as the current HDMI chipsets are available. That will give you an option in case the fiber cable doesn't work reliably. A pull string is also a good idea. You can also terminate the solid core CAT-6 with a punchdown keystone jack if you want to extend your ethernet connection so you can hardwire your HTS. That's what I do.

How long is your cable run?


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## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> There are no 100% guarantees, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. I haven't heard definitively that eARC has been reliably enabled on HDMI 2.0 chipsets. Those chipsets were incorporated into devices long before the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols were even ratified and the chip designs sent to the chip mfrs. Maybe some tv's mfr'd this year with the HDMI 2.0b chipsets are capable of firmware upgrade to eARC, but I haven't heard of any, yet. Just because the HDMI cable is capable of ARC (most are) that is no guarantee that it will work reliably for eARC (probably, but....).
> 
> I understand your dilemmas but you will not get a definitive answer because HDMI 2.1, eARC (and even CEC Extensions for that matter) still do not have a testing/certification process finalized (designed by HDMI.org) so how well it will work "in the wild" is unknown. As to the actual cables, your best bet is to figure out how to install a conduit so you can run a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro appears to have success as reported on AVS with ARC over longer distances) as well as a solid core CAT-6 cable (not CCA and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable). The solid core CAT-6 can be terminated with HDBT (active termination) as soon as the current HDMI chipsets are available. That will give you an option in case the fiber cable doesn't work reliably. A pull string is also a good idea. You can also terminate the solid core CAT-6 with a punchdown keystone jack if you want to extend your ethernet connection so you can hardwire your HTS. That's what I do.
> 
> How long is your cable run?


I perhaps shouldn't have used the word "definite" in my post because I'm not looking for 100% guarantees, I'm just looking for more educated answers than mine.

As for not having heard of any TVs with eARC yet, as mentioned, the Sony Master series (both the Z9F and A9F) have been firmware updated to support eARC, as have some of their sound bars and receivers, this is live and out there right now.

Unfortunately I don't know the actual length of the run but judging by the 50ft Celerity cable I ran in my current home, I'm thinking I would want to start at 50ft at least for my new place. Isn't HDBase-T compressed? Cat6 at best can only support 10Gb, let alone 18Gb or more, so it's certainly not going to be raw HDMI data.

The RuiPro cable I can get from Amazon and I can get it tomorrow, for $164, that's a difficult proposition to argue with since the Celerity is less known in this instance and will likely cost $400+, though I do like not having the HDMI plugs on the ends.


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## Otto Pylot

When HDMI 2.0 was first released, Sony claimed to have an HDMI 1.4 to 2.0 firmware upgrade, which they did. However, the upgrade turned out to be just an upclock in speed, from HDMI 1.4's 8.9 Gbps to the gray area of 10.2 Gbps, which overlaps with HDMI 1.4 and 2.0. Technically speaking it was an HDMI 2.0 upgrade but in speed only. It did not have the other aspects of the HDMI 2.0 hardware chipsets. Hopefully Sony has learned from that when making claims, but until actual consumers can test it out eARC in their home systems (which not only returns audio it is also supposed capable of Atmos, HD Audio, etc) it's anybody's guess. I'm hoping that the upgrade is a fully functional eARC but time will tell.

50'+ for 4k HDR is going to be tough for any cable for eARC so all you can do is run conduit and try, or at the very least lay your cable in such a manner that you can easily swap it out/upgrade if you need to. Solid core CAT-6, if you run conduit, is still a good idea for ethernet alone. Doesn't hut to lay it in, with enough of a service loop in the utility box, in case you need it down the road.

My HTS is hardwired with solid core CAT-6, at over 50', and I don't have any issues streaming 4k HDR. The solid core CAT-6 is terminated at a gigabit switch which then connects to my devices, via CAT-6 ethernet cable. The devices (ATV4k and a 4k UHD blu-ray player) are then connected to my receiver via Premium High Speed HDMI cables and then off to the LG 65 C8 tv. However, I have no need to use ARC (or CEC for that matter) so ARC/CEC are disabled on all of my devices.


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## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> When HDMI 2.0 was first released, Sony claimed to have an HDMI 1.4 to 2.0 firmware upgrade, which they did. However, the upgrade turned out to be just an upclock in speed, from HDMI 1.4's 8.9 Gbps to the gray area of 10.2 Gbps, which overlaps with HDMI 1.4 and 2.0. Technically speaking it was an HDMI 2.0 upgrade but in speed only. It did not have the other aspects of the HDMI 2.0 hardware chipsets. Hopefully Sony has learned from that when making claims, but until actual consumers can test it out eARC in their home systems (which not only returns audio it is also supposed capable of Atmos, HD Audio, etc) it's anybody's guess. I'm hoping that the upgrade is a fully functional eARC but time will tell.
> 
> 50'+ for 4k HDR is going to be tough for any cable for eARC so all you can do is run conduit and try, or at the very least lay your cable in such a manner that you can easily swap it out/upgrade if you need to. Solid core CAT-6, if you run conduit, is still a good idea for ethernet alone. Doesn't hut to lay it in, with enough of a service loop in the utility box, in case you need it down the road.
> 
> My HTS is hardwired with solid core CAT-6, at over 50', and I don't have any issues streaming 4k HDR. The solid core CAT-6 is terminated at a gigabit switch which then connects to my devices, via CAT-6 ethernet cable. The devices (ATV4k and a 4k UHD blu-ray player) are then connected to my receiver via Premium High Speed HDMI cables and then off to the LG 65 C8 tv. However, I have no need to use ARC (or CEC for that matter) so ARC/CEC are disabled on all of my devices.


Multiple manufacturers are offering eARC updates including Onkyo and Pioneer, I believe Denon and Yamaha also have eARC firmware updates.

Reading the Lattice Semiconductor's white paper on eARC it definitely uses the Ethernet pins on the HDMI cable, but it _has _to be be an HDMI with Ethernet cable otherwise it won't work. Reading more into it, the nature of how eARC will work, current well certified HDMI with Ethernet cable will work with eARC, this is even backed up by HDMI.org who say:



> *Q: What cable(s) do I need to make use of the eARC feature?
> 
> *A: Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables are designed to support the new eARC feature in addition to the highest resolution video modes. The Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet and the High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet will also support eARC.


So seemingly, my hypothesis that while the Monoprice HDMI cable in the test doesn't support ARC, it _will_ support eARC. Reading through the white paper further, it looks like ARC was dependent on CEC which, while it should be a standard, everyone had their own interpretation of that standard causing compatibility issues with CEC and in turn ARC as well. With eARC, they made it completely independent of CEC and its own standard so there should be much more consistent compatibility.

My 'old' 50' Celerity DFO fiber cable does well but I haven't tested _all_ signal types completely. Since both the Monoprice and RuiPro cables tested just fine up to 100', it should be fine provided it isn't damaged when running the cable. You're talking about streaming data from the internet over Cat6, that's different and yes it will be fine at 1Gb, a quick Google suggests 4k HDR on Netflix is 12-16Mbps, that would fit just fine on a 100Mb Ethernet connection, let alone a 1Gb or 10Gb Ethernet connection.

Regardless. I don't have a problem with Cat6 cable runs, they're already done and I'm not concerned about those, working in networking I have a handle on that no problem but I am well aware of how difficult it is to do _native_ HDMI signals over long distances, hence my current Celerity cable.

Really they need to give up with copper based HDMI, in fact, we just need to drop HDMI and switch to native Ethernet signals using QSFP28 fiber modules to carry the signal, just have a QSFP28 slot on the receiver and the TV and be done with it, 100Gb should be plenty for a while, heck for short distances you can still get QSFP28 DACs and they don't have to be expensive.

Anyway back to the point, while the report explicitly states that the Monoprice cable supports HDMI Ethernet (so should support eARC) it doesn't say if the RuiPro cable supports HDMI Ethernet, so does anyone know if the RuiPro supports HDMI Ethernet?


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## jong1

LondonBenji said:


> Anyway back to the point, while the report explicitly states that the Monoprice cable supports HDMI Ethernet (so should support eARC) it doesn't say if the RuiPro cable supports HDMI Ethernet, so does anyone know if the RuiPro supports HDMI Ethernet?


I'm sorry no one seems to be able to help you. I just checked RuiPro's info and they do not say, maybe because it has just about never been used. eARC will be about the first use of those wires!

I would caution that even if there is Ethernet in the cable it might struggle over long runs, as ARC does with some hybrid cables. I don't believe the wiring for Ethernet over HDMI is anything like as robust as CAT cabling and hybrid cables use copper for all but the high speed video. If it's crucial a good returns policy is needed for whatever you buy and you will need to test thoroughly.


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## Shandofurion

How are the Amazon Basic ones?


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## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> Multiple manufacturers are offering eARC updates including Onkyo and Pioneer, I believe Denon and Yamaha also have eARC firmware updates.
> 
> Reading the Lattice Semiconductor's white paper on eARC it definitely uses the Ethernet pins on the HDMI cable, but it _has _to be be an HDMI with Ethernet cable otherwise it won't work. Reading more into it, the nature of how eARC will work, current well certified HDMI with Ethernet cable will work with eARC, this is even backed up by HDMI.org who say:
> 
> 
> 
> So seemingly, my hypothesis that while the Monoprice HDMI cable in the test doesn't support ARC, it _will_ support eARC. Reading through the white paper further, it looks like ARC was dependent on CEC which, while it should be a standard, everyone had their own interpretation of that standard causing compatibility issues with CEC and in turn ARC as well. With eARC, they made it completely independent of CEC and its own standard so there should be much more consistent compatibility.
> 
> My 'old' 50' Celerity DFO fiber cable does well but I haven't tested _all_ signal types completely. Since both the Monoprice and RuiPro cables tested just fine up to 100', it should be fine provided it isn't damaged when running the cable. You're talking about streaming data from the internet over Cat6, that's different and yes it will be fine at 1Gb, a quick Google suggests 4k HDR on Netflix is 12-16Mbps, that would fit just fine on a 100Mb Ethernet connection, let alone a 1Gb or 10Gb Ethernet connection.
> 
> Regardless. I don't have a problem with Cat6 cable runs, they're already done and I'm not concerned about those, working in networking I have a handle on that no problem but I am well aware of how difficult it is to do _native_ HDMI signals over long distances, hence my current Celerity cable.
> 
> Really they need to give up with copper based HDMI, in fact, we just need to drop HDMI and switch to native Ethernet signals using QSFP28 fiber modules to carry the signal, just have a QSFP28 slot on the receiver and the TV and be done with it, 100Gb should be plenty for a while, heck for short distances you can still get QSFP28 DACs and they don't have to be expensive.
> 
> Anyway back to the point, while the report explicitly states that the Monoprice cable supports HDMI Ethernet (so should support eARC) it doesn't say if the RuiPro cable supports HDMI Ethernet, so does anyone know if the RuiPro supports HDMI Ethernet?


HDMI with ethernet, while one of the HDMI protocol sets, is not used by any of the device mfrs as I stated. It is, at this point in time, a useless HDMI protocol. Most HDMI cables are advertised as "HDMI with ethernet" but it doesn't mean anything. eARC is supposed to use that channel for ARC, not ethernet. How successfully that will be achieved is still unknown. Don't confuse eARC with ethernet. 

ARC is still associated with CEC (on the same HDMI chipset) in a lot of devices. Newer devices allow the user to have separate control over each which is a big improvement. Most of the issues with ARC were due to the non-standardized implementation of CEC. However, ARC still suffers over long runs even if one has separate control under normal circumstances. As far as ethernet goes, a lot of cable mfrs don't advertise that feature for long runs because again, there aren't any devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel for ethernet so why test for it. eARC will change that but it's still a bit premature at this point in time. The "e" in eARC indicates that the unused ethernet channel (wire) is being used for ARC.

I do agree that HDMI in general is a mess but it is what we are stuck with and will be stuck with for a long time.

I seriously doubt if we will ever see HDMI with ethernet because that would take an investment on the device mfrs part to implement that and they just don't seem to have a desire to want, or need, to do that. The workaround is to take the ethernet channel and use that for eARC, once the distance limitations and issues can be worked out. Possibly by using an active cable much like the current active cables which are designed to increase the length of the copper connection over the 25' maximum certifiable distance. 

Not to beat a dead horse but you will have to take a chance on a cable. Hence the use of a conduit. Hybrid fiber is still your best bet but when it comes to ARC or eARC over a given distance, there just aren't any proven cables yet. In theory, if the cable is advertised as supporting "HDMI with ethernet", even tho you don't know how that is determined, it might work for eARC. Distance will be the biggest obstacle. Nobody is currently certifying or even testing eARC over any distance. While eARC is a separate protocol within the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol set, HDMI.org still states that fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will be limited to a maximum distance of 1 - 3 meters (3' - 9'). What full implementation means is unknown as there aren't any devices that are fully HDMI 2.1 compliant. It sounds like the eARC subset will be independent of fully compliant HDMI 2.1 so that's good news, but you will still need to have HDMI chipsets that are capable of eARC in addition to a cable that is advertised as having an ethernet channel. It could be as simple as increasing the voltage on the HDMI input so that when an active cable is connected, there's enough power to return the signal to the source end successfully.

As @jong1 said, whatever cable you purchase make sure you read carefully the return policy. Conduit is the only answer because you may be, and probably will be, swapping out cables until the industry gets the kinks worked out for eARC and 4k HDR over long distances in general.

I wish we had a better answer for you but at this point in time, it's still trial and error until eARC capable devices are in the hands of consumers and have been tested in user environments with various cables and lengths.


----------



## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI with ethernet, while one of the HDMI protocol sets, is not used by any of the device mfrs as I stated. It is, at this point in time, a useless HDMI protocol. Most HDMI cables are advertised as "HDMI with ethernet" but it doesn't mean anything. eARC is supposed to use that channel for ARC, not ethernet. How successfully that will be achieved is still unknown. Don't confuse eARC with ethernet.


No offense but I'm not confused at all, you're getting hung up on certain points I'm making. Just to be clear, I am well aware that HDMI Ethernet is basically unused today however, that is why HDMI Ethernet is being re-purposed to carry eARC instead which makes sense but I'm not confusing eARC with HEC. 

The simple point is, HDMI.org have stated verbatim that a cable that is properly designed for HDMI Ethernet, WILL support eARC and that's all I needed to know. How well the cable _actually _supports it another matter and there's only so much I can do to ensure that, at the end of the day RuiPro has come back and said that yes, their cable does support HEC and since these cables have tested well for all other functionality over long distances (100 foot!) then if I am a betting man, I have to place my bet on them that they will come through with a properly implemented HEC connection over the same lengths.

How well it works in the real world is another question and will remain to be seen, the point is, HDMI.org has given me what to look for in regards to what is required from a cable for eARC and that is (in theory), any cable that supports HDMI Ethernet Channel.



Otto Pylot said:


> ARC is still associated with CEC (on the same HDMI chipset) in a lot of devices. Newer devices allow the user to have separate control over each which is a big improvement. Most of the issues with ARC were due to the non-standardized implementation of CEC. However, ARC still suffers over long runs even if one has separate control under normal circumstances.


Here you're literally agreeing with me and repeating what I said. Again just to be clear, I was saying that _eARC_ is no longer associated with CEC (not ARC) and that it was a GOOD thing because we shouldn't see (as many) compatibility issues that CEC (and thus in turn ARC) was fraught with. Let's be clear here, while ARC and eARC set out to achieve the same thing they are _very _different in their implementation and thus we cannot compare the issues we've seen with ARC to potentially happening with eARC, they are very different in nature.



Otto Pylot said:


> As far as ethernet goes, a lot of cable mfrs don't advertise that feature for long runs because again, there aren't any devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel for ethernet so why test for it. eARC will change that but it's still a bit premature at this point in time. The "e" in eARC indicates that the unused ethernet channel (wire) is being used for ARC.


Yes again, I'm well aware of this however, HEC should actually be easier to implement over long distances than the rest of the HDMI signals since the data rate on that channel is only up to 100Mbps, that's a tiny fraction of the 18Gbps speed of the rest of the HDMI cable and is MUCH less susceptible to signal loss/interference issues over distances than 18,000Mbps is. In theory anyway.



Otto Pylot said:


> I do agree that HDMI in general is a mess but it is what we are stuck with and will be stuck with for a long time.
> 
> I seriously doubt if we will ever see HDMI with ethernet because that would take an investment on the device mfrs part to implement that and they just don't seem to have a desire to want, or need, to do that. The workaround is to take the ethernet channel and use that for eARC, once the distance limitations and issues can be worked out. Possibly by using an active cable much like the current active cables which are designed to increase the length of the copper connection over the 25' maximum certifiable distance.


There is a simple reason why we're likely to never see video/audio signals sent natively over a packet switched Ethernet connection and that is, piracy. Nevermind that they could probably encrypt the data stream using existing protocols _better_ than the already compromised HDCP protocol... The other issue would be jitter over a packet switched network but they could implement some sort of QoS that would prioritise the traffic.

The possibilities would be amazing, think about it, you no longer connect TVs and source devices directly on a one to one bases. It gets even more amazing when you think about A/V distribution around an entire house, just plug all your TVs, source devices and receivers into a 8 or 16 port 100Gb switch and boom, you can send or receive A/V from any source device to any display device, you could even multicast a source device to multiple display devices.



Otto Pylot said:


> Not to beat a dead horse but you will have to take a chance on a cable. Hence the use of a conduit. Hybrid fiber is still your best bet but when it comes to ARC or eARC over a given distance, there just aren't any proven cables yet. In theory, if the cable is advertised as supporting "HDMI with ethernet", even tho you don't know how that is determined, it might work for eARC. Distance will be the biggest obstacle. Nobody is currently certifying or even testing eARC over any distance. While eARC is a separate protocol within the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol set, HDMI.org still states that fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will be limited to a maximum distance of 1 - 3 meters (3' - 9'). What full implementation means is unknown as there aren't any devices that are fully HDMI 2.1 compliant. It sounds like the eARC subset will be independent of fully compliant HDMI 2.1 so that's good news, but you will still need to have HDMI chipsets that are capable of eARC in addition to a cable that is advertised as having an ethernet channel. It could be as simple as increasing the voltage on the HDMI input so that when an active cable is connected, there's enough power to return the signal to the source end successfully.
> 
> As @*jong1* said, whatever cable you purchase make sure you read carefully the return policy. Conduit is the only answer because you may be, and probably will be, swapping out cables until the industry gets the kinks worked out for eARC and 4k HDR over long distances in general.


Taking a chance is what this entire conversation has been about, more specifically, working out what cable to take the _best_ chance with. I will go back again though as you have recommended and try my best to put conduit in place with the straightest possible route, hopefully I will be able to.



Otto Pylot said:


> I wish we had a better answer for you but at this point in time, it's still trial and error until eARC capable devices are in the hands of consumers and have been tested in user environments with various cables and lengths.


You guys have been a great help! Now that we have established at least what the 'on paper' requirements for a cable to support eARC is a cable that supports HEC, we at least have a better idea of eARC in general, I shall report back when construction is finished! By then we would have done CES 2019 and I'm _really _hoping that eARC will become WAY more wide spread in lower end TVs, even if HDMI2.1 doesn't make an appearance as I don't want to fork out for a hugely expensive Sony Master series TV but on the receiver side, the Sony STR-ZA1100ES is going to be my go to, or whatever refresh it may or may not get after CES 2019, at least (on paper) the current one just recently got a firmware update to support eARC:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/su...rs-amplifiers/str-za1100es/downloads/00015540


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## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> No offense but I'm not confused at all, you're getting hung up on certain points I'm making.


Fair enough. Sometimes we (me) gets a bit overzealous in trying to help someone because we just don't know how well versed they are. Do let us know how it all works out.


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## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> Fair enough. Sometimes we (me) gets a bit overzealous in trying to help someone because we just don't know how well versed they are. Do let us know how it all works out.


Better to be thorough! Can never have too much information and I really appreciate your help/advice!


----------



## jong1

LondonBenji said:


> The simple point is, HDMI.org have stated verbatim that a cable that is properly designed for HDMI Ethernet, WILL support eARC and that's all I needed to know.


At the risk of laboring the point and reopening something that has reached a nice conclusion , it may be worth just revisiting this statement. HDMI.org have form on this! In fact the whole reason for this thread is that they promised that any pre-existing High Speed Certified HDMI cable would also support HDMI 2.0 and that has been proven wrong time and time again even at lengths of 2M.

You obviously know your stuff and I know you are not asking for guarantees and at up to 37Mb/s it's requirements are certainly a lot easier to meet than video or even 100Mb/s ethernet, but I wouldn't trust HDMI.org promises on this!

ps. @Otto Pylot, FYI, the "e" in eARC stands for "enhanced", not ethernet


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> on this!
> 
> ps. @Otto Pylot, FYI, the "e" in eARC stands for "enhanced", not ethernet



You are correct! I got stuck on the ethernet discussion and just typed it wrong. Thanks for catching that  I agree about the accuracy of some of what HDMI.org states.


----------



## LondonBenji

jong1 said:


> At the risk of laboring the point and reopening something that has reached a nice conclusion , it may be worth just revisiting this statement. HDMI.org have form on this! In fact the whole reason for this thread is that they promised that any pre-existing High Speed Certified HDMI cable would also support HDMI 2.0 and that has been proven wrong time and time again even at lengths of 2M.
> 
> You obviously know your stuff and I know you are not asking for guarantees and at up to 37Mb/s it's requirements are certainly a lot easier to meet than video or even 100Mb/s ethernet, but I wouldn't trust HDMI.org promises on this!
> 
> ps. @Otto Pylot, FYI, the "e" in eARC stands for "enhanced", not ethernet


Truth is, I _don't_ trust HDMI.org on their word and I _don't_ trust RuiPro on their word either, you and @Otto Pylot are absolutely right, ultimately the proof will be when everything is connected and there's a little eARC light on the receiver or something, until then I'm just trying to work out my best _chance_ and getting this working based on speculation at this time.

As for the HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel), I'm not entirely sure how it works, there's two possible scenarios that I can think of -

1. It uses native layer 1 signalling that Ethernet uses at the same frequency/symbol rate etc. But 100Mbit Ethernet typically requires two pairs....
2. HDMI standard somehow encapsulates Ethernet on the cable using its own physical layer.

If it's the former, then there should be virtually zero issue with HDMI Ethernet over long distances as even 1Gb Ethernet has no problems over long (technically ~330ft) distances and that's over normal CAT5/6 cabling, as I understand it, HDMI cables are far more shielded, in fact they have to be. So again, if it's the former theory, I'm far less worried about HEC (and in theory in turn eARC) over longer distances than I am with ARC since that was a different set of issues. 

But if it's the latter theory then who know what mess HDMI.org has created with Ethernet. Heck even 10Gb Ethernet on CAT6 and be pretty reasonable over certain distances but admittedly 10Gb is where Ethernet does start having issues, which is coincidentally the same as when HDMI started having issues with 1.4 which, as we all know is 10.2Gbps. There's also a reason why you don't see 25Gb or 40/100Gb Ethernet over copper and will likely never see any copper implementations of it and will strictly be fiber only with the except of DACs - Direct Attached Copper that typically is only 3ft.

This is why HDMI just needs to give up with copper, the headaches of HDMI 2.0 at 18Gbps are only going to get exponentially worse going forward. HDMI 2.1 at 48Gbps over copper wires is going to be a nightmare. I really wish we would just ditch HDMI completely and go to an existing open standard that's already there for 100Gb Ethernet using fiber cables instead, it's already more than twice the bandwidth than the yet to be released HDMI 2.1 and if that isn't even enough, 400Gb Ethernet is a thing already and by the time we may ever need that kind of bandwidth, the cost would have come down significantly.

A/V really does need to just give it up and embrace packet switched Ethernet.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji;57193976
This is why HDMI just needs to give up with copper said:


> I've been saying this for a long time now. Short runs (under 15' or so) can probably still be handled well with copper HDMI but with more and more folks installing projectors and theater rooms (from very complex to simple) with distances over 25', fiber and probably hybrid fiber will be the way to go, especially once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild. My feeling is that the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will be fiber (at hopefully longer than 9').
> 
> There are going to be lots of really upset folks when they purchase their shiny new 4k HDR sets and pay unreasonably high prices for HDMI cables only to find out that it doesn't work as expected. ARC/eARC I fear will always be an issue for a lot of folks, at least for the immediate future. There is just so much more to successful connections that just the cable, but the way the cable marketeers sell/advertise their products, some are lead to believe that's all you need.


----------



## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> I've been saying this for a long time now. Short runs (under 15' or so) can probably still be handled well with copper HDMI but with more and more folks installing projectors and theater rooms (from very complex to simple) with distances over 25', fiber and probably hybrid fiber will be the way to go, especially once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild. My feeling is that the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will be fiber (at hopefully longer than 9').
> 
> There are going to be lots of really upset folks when they purchase their shiny new 4k HDR sets and pay unreasonably high prices for HDMI cables only to find out that it doesn't work as expected. ARC/eARC I fear will always be an issue for a lot of folks, at least for the immediate future. There is just so much more to successful connections that just the cable, but the way the cable marketeers sell/advertise their products, some are lead to believe that's all you need.


Exactly! I'm really uncertain of HDMI 2.1 cables though, 40Gb Ethernet is "slower" and there's literally no copper medium outside of DACs that are certified or even just available for 40Gb connections, actually I tell a lie, CAT7A was supposedly going to allow 40GBase-T but then it got pushed to the (as yet) unreleased CAT8 standard, but as of right now there's literally no means of using CAT6/7/8 copper cables to connect 40Gb Ethernet and I am pretty certain given the power per port issues seen with 10GBase-T switches, I honestly don't think we ever will (outside of DACs).

So going back to the point, I fear that anything over 3ft even with known high quality cable manufacturers, HDMI 2.1 is going to be one giant s**tshow of constant complaints and things not working.... who knows, maybe it'll give cable manufacturers the kick up the bottom they need to produce better cables for fear of large numbers of returns. I really really am hoping though, that the changes to the way eARC works, we'll see significant decrease in compatibility issues.... One can hope.... right.....


----------



## LondonBenji

Good news! For now at least.... RuiPro had a discount running on their cables so I picked up their 50ft cable for a great price! I also managed to find a 2"x50' conduit locally (Home Depot and Lowes all required shipping and I had to get it immediately). Only problem was that it was this kind of conduit....

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cab...llic-Liquidtight-Conduit-6004-24-00/202262416

Yes I know it should have been the corrugated kind and my life would have been MUCH easier but no one had any in stock anywhere locally. Let me tell you if you didn't already know, DO NOT get the kind above unless you cannot possibly avoid it. It's like trying to wrestle with an elephant's trunk and installing it by yourself is extremely hard work that damn near killed me.... But it's in and now I have a solid 2" conduit 50ft from source to destination which I'll pull the RuiPro cable through.

Fingers crossed Sony will announce new TVs at CES 2019 (I'm looking out for the 900F's replacement) that will have eARC and so I can pair it with the Sony STR-ZA1100ES (which now 'supports' eARC - to be confirmed), right now I have no means to test the RuiPro cable short of purchasing one of the Sony Master series TVs which I'm not likely to do any time soon! But, fingers crossed for CES 2019 or a firmware update for the current 900F series to get eARC and once the house is finished, along with the necessary devices, I'll test and let you know if the RuiPro can do eARC!

Thanks again for all of the help everyone has provided.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ Congrats! That conduit looks like the kind with the "ribs" on the inside which would make it a bit difficult to fish cable thru but certainly not impossible and a whole lot better than not having a conduit at all. Don't forget to run a pull string for future cable pulls and possibly even some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) for possible future use (extending an ethernet connection or an HDMI connection). If you do install it, you probably won't need it. But if you don't install it..... 

Let us know how eARC works with the hybrid fiber Ruipro.


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> Don't forget to run a pull string for future cable pulls and possibly even some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 *ethernet *cable) for possible future use (extending an ethernet connection or an HDMI connection).


Sorry but to clarify, there are some incredibly similar things there. Agree about avoiding Copper Coated Aluminium cables.

Then you say:
Buy solid core CAT-6 cable,
but 
don't buy solid core CAT-6 ethernet cable?

All the solid core CAT-6 cables I can see *are* ethernet cables, not least since  CAT-6 is an ethernet standard 
Perhaps I've misread!


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> Sorry but to clarify, there are some incredibly similar things there. Agree about avoiding Copper Coated Aluminium cables.
> Then you say:
> Buy solid core CAT-6 cable,
> but
> don't buy solid core CAT-6 ethernet cable?
> 
> All the solid core CAT-6 cables I can see *are* ethernet cables, not least since  CAT-6 is an ethernet standard
> Perhaps I've misread!


By solid core CAT-6 I am referring to UTP CAT-6 cable where each individual wire is solid copper, individually insulated and twisted into 4 pairs, all of which is encased in a jacket. The wire gauge as 23 AWG so they are fairly stiff. They come in spools of 25' lengths and are not terminated so you can either terminate them with a punchdown keystone jack for an ethernet connection or terminate with HDBT for an HDMI connection. This is a different CAT-6 wire which is what I call an ethernet patch cable (already terminated). The cable that I use is rated for gigabit ethernet, 100 mbps TPDDI, 155 mbps ATM, IEEE 802.3, IEEE 802.5, ISDN, and Voice. I use it to connect my satellite router and my HTS to the main router, about a 200' distance. Works great for hardwiring your HTS. And if you terminate with HDBT that has current HDMI chipsets, it works extremely well for 1080 and even 4k depending on how careful you've installed the cable (bend radius).

Sorry for the confusion. It was clear in my mind


----------



## nonstopdoc1

Does anyone know if adding a L shaped angle connector at one end impact the 4K/HDR capability of cable in any way or form? I have a RuiPro cable but I need to add an adaptor on the display end due to lack of clearance behind it. Anyone here has any experience?


----------



## Otto Pylot

nonstopdoc1 said:


> Does anyone know if adding a L shaped angle connector at one end impact the 4K/HDR capability of cable in any way or form? I have a RuiPro cable but I need to add an adaptor on the display end due to lack of clearance behind it. Anyone here has any experience?



All you can do is try. 4k HDR can be really finicky with its connections, and the 90 degree elbow connector may be just enough of an "interruption" in the data path to affect reliablity.


Can you test the connection with the adapter before you install the cable?


----------



## nonstopdoc1

Otto Pylot said:


> All you can do is try. 4k HDR can be really finicky with its connections, and the 90 degree elbow connector may be just enough of an "interruption" in the data path to affect reliablity.
> 
> 
> Can you test the connection with the adapter before you install the cable?


The cable is already installed through the wall. I am still waiting on adapter to arrive. If it works, great and if it doesn't, I may have to move the projector mount few inches forward to create space behind it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nonstopdoc1 said:


> The cable is already installed through the wall. I am still waiting on adapter to arrive. If it works, great and if it doesn't, I may have to move the projector mount few inches forward to create space behind it.


How long is your cable run? Did you install conduit for your cable? 4k HDR does have issues over 20' so a lot of folks are switching to a hybrid fiber cable. Video standards will continue to change, and the cable requirements are always lagging behind so the chances of you having to swap cables out again is likely. Hence the use of conduit to make cable changes easier. It's also easier to control bend radius which can have a detrimental effect on signal propagation.


----------



## nonstopdoc1

Otto Pylot said:


> How long is your cable run? Did you install conduit for your cable? 4k HDR does have issues over 20' so a lot of folks are switching to a hybrid fiber cable. Video standards will continue to change, and the cable requirements are always lagging behind so the chances of you having to swap cables out again is likely. Hence the use of conduit to make cable changes easier. It's also easier to control bend radius which can have a detrimental effect on signal propagation.


Its a RuiPro fiber cable 10m. I have used a similar one in the past with no issues. Cable goes through the wall plate on rear wall from unfinished area. Changing cable wont be an issue If I need to. Its the projector that is mounted too close to the rear wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nonstopdoc1 said:


> Its a RuiPro fiber cable 10m. I have used a similar one in the past with no issues. Cable goes through the wall plate on rear wall from unfinished area. Changing cable wont be an issue If I need to. Its the projector that is mounted too close to the rear wall.


The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable is the way to go for now and is what is recommended for those 20'+ runs for 4k HDR. The fact that you can easily get to the cable as well is a bonus. You should be good to go then as long as the 90-degree elbow adapter works. At least you have options that aren't difficult to work with. Hopefully the adapter will work. Let us know.


----------



## nj786

Any thoughts/input on Audioquest brand?


----------



## helvetica bold

Just posted, UK HDMI cables tho.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nj786 said:


> Any thoughts/input on Audioquest brand?



AudioQuest are typically overpriced and quite often there are other copper-based cables that offer the same performance for a lot less. The basic rule is this:


For 4k HDR - runs up to about 20' will probably work fine with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. The cable will be certified to meet all HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications, and will come with a QR label for authenticity. Any cable can be certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) if the cable mfr is willing to pay for the certification testing. Current cable certification is only good up to 25' and 30' in some cases. For runs over 20', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro is a popular mfr) is recommended. In addition, if your cable run is installed in-wall, the use of a conduit is HIGHLY recommended. Video standards outpace connection standards so the odds of you needing to replace your cabling down the road are pretty good.


For 1080p - Premium High Speed HDMI cables are all you need and the distance can be increased with the use of an active cable.



No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work trouble free in any setup. There are just too many variables (bend radius, distance, HDMI chipset versions at source/sink ends, etc) so it can be trial and error in some cases. If you want or need ARC, cable distance can work against you as well.


Cable mfrs will and do make all kinds of claims with slick marketing and pretty packaging so caveat emptor.


----------



## nj786

Otto Pylot said:


> AudioQuest are typically overpriced and quite often there are other copper-based cables that offer the same performance for a lot less. The basic rule is this:
> 
> 
> For 4k HDR - runs up to about 20' will probably work fine with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. The cable will be certified to meet all HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications, and will come with a QR label for authenticity. Any cable can be certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) if the cable mfr is willing to pay for the certification testing. Current cable certification is only good up to 25' and 30' in some cases. For runs over 20', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro is a popular mfr) is recommended. In addition, if your cable run is installed in-wall, the use of a conduit is HIGHLY recommended. Video standards outpace connection standards so the odds of you needing to replace your cabling down the road are pretty good.
> 
> 
> For 1080p - Premium High Speed HDMI cables are all you need and the distance can be increased with the use of an active cable.
> 
> 
> 
> No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work trouble free in any setup. There are just too many variables (bend radius, distance, HDMI chipset versions at source/sink ends, etc) so it can be trial and error in some cases. If you want or need ARC, cable distance can work against you as well.
> 
> 
> Cable mfrs will and do make all kinds of claims with slick marketing and pretty packaging so caveat emptor.


Thank you!


----------



## compaddict

Thank you very much!


----------



## cindernat

I notice the Ruipro cables are not full fiber but hybrid. Does it matter?

A hifi place I have been dealing with mentioned this and instead offered one of theirs, I believe the brand is Korte? This is for 12.5m.

Thanks.


----------



## TrendSetterX

cindernat said:


> I notice the Ruipro cables are not full fiber but hybrid. Does it matter?
> 
> 
> 
> A hifi place I have been dealing with mentioned this and instead offered one of theirs, I believe the brand is Korte? This is for 12.5m.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.


Hybrid means it provides a copper return channel to support ARC. That makes it better than “Normal” which is one direction.


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## cindernat

TrendSetterX said:


> Hybrid means it provides a copper return channel to support ARC. That makes it better than “Normal” which is one direction.


Ah ok, now it makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hybrid fiber is the way to go as @TrendSetterX mentioned.


----------



## Sacramentojoe

Interesting experience: ran a bunch of HDMI under our floor (basically trenched some concrete and layed underlayment and Hardwood atop). The run is probably 35' under the floor, but then there is 3 feet from the wall outlet to the devices, 3 feet from the wall outlet to the receiver, 3 feet from receiver to second wall outlet, 6 feet up that wall outlet to an outlet behind the TV, and 3 feet from that outlet to the television.
I had done some testing prior to wiring under floor and all seemed ok, but as I was testing after the install (direct from one outlet to another skipping receiver) PS4 signal would go in and out. X360 signal inconsistent, at one point giving me a bunch of green pixelation and at one point working when I turned it on but not after starting a game.
My signal from PC was running just fine.
After connecting everything to receiver, PS4 and X360 signals work just fine.
Not using 4K, hopefully when/if I upgrade that will work too.
Any insight as to why this occured?


----------



## veger69

TrendSetterX said:


> Hybrid means it provides a copper return channel to support ARC. That makes it better than “Normal” which is one direction.




Yes unfortunately I went with full fiber and it doesn’t do ARC and was remodeling my theater room so it’s in the wall.
The good news the hybrid is thin so if I end up buying a replacement it can be run at the bottom of the wall and be inconspicuous 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

veger69 said:


> Yes unfortunately I went with full fiber and it doesn’t do ARC and was remodeling my theater room so it’s in the wall.
> The good news the hybrid is thin so if I end up buying a replacement it can be run at the bottom of the wall and be inconspicuous
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I take it you didn't install a conduit in-wall for your cable run?


----------



## veger69

Otto Pylot said:


> I take it you didn't install a conduit in-wall for your cable run?




I bought the conduit but the corner had 4 -2x4 stacked together and my contractor told me he couldn’t rout the conduit through the corner. I probably didn’t fight for it enough in hindsight lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

veger69 said:


> I bought the conduit but the corner had 4 -2x4 stacked together and my contractor told me he couldn’t rout the conduit through the corner. I probably didn’t fight for it enough in hindsight lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



That's unfortunate. I can't see why, with a little effort and ingenuity, he couldn't have done it. Connection technology still lags behind video technology so swapping cables out in the future will be a likelyhood if one desires to upgrade down the road.


----------



## StevenC56

I'm using a 50" Monoprice Slimrun optical cable with good results. I know it doesn't have ARC capabilities, but why would that be a benefit for a projector user anyhow?


----------



## mrtickleuk

I have been trying to find out, in the Premium HDMI Cable test, what is the maximum number of bit errors per second that is allowed for the cable to pass?

All I can find is
https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs...-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-and-heres-why


> Q. So errors do mean differences and you can see them, you’re backtracking aren’t you?
> A. Certainly not. We freely admit that a digital signal will occasionally cause an error in transmission, but this has to be put into context. The *HDMI standard allows for one error per one billion bits, which is known as the Bit Error Rate (BER)*. Assuming that a picture is transmitted using 24-bit colour (8-bits each for RGB) at 24fps at a resolution of 1,920x1,080 (2,073,600 pixels), that’s a total of 49,766,400bits per frame. At 24fps, the film standard, that’s 1,194,393,600bits (1.1bn bits). In other words, the HDMI standard allows for the worst cable to have a single error in one pixel, in one frame per second.


I'm pretty sure that is referring to the slower class of cable. I would like to know what the number is for a High Speed (18Gbps) cable, or is it the same, and why aren't HDMI.org/HDMI Premium Certified transparent and open about what exactly they test?


----------



## ralfale

D


veger69 said:


> Yes unfortunately I went with full fiber and it doesn’t do ARC and was remodeling my theater room so it’s in the wall.
> The good news the hybrid is thin so if I end up buying a replacement it can be run at the bottom of the wall and be inconspicuous
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## rhapsody1

I had a ton of Dolby Digital+ (DD+ +DSur) audio dropouts every few seconds using the RUIPro @ 10m via ARC when using built-in LG Netflix and Amazon 4K UHD content. I just returned my RUIPro Hybrid Fiber back to Amazon. 

Anyone here have experience with COSEMI Active Optical AOC? The cables look new to market but company looks like leaders in the optical space. 
https://www.amazon.com/COSEMI-Active-Optical-Plenum-Cable/dp/B07JFQDGLM?th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhapsody1 said:


> I had a ton of Dolby Digital+ (DD+ +DSur) audio dropouts every few seconds using the RUIPro @ 10m via ARC when using built-in LG Netflix and Amazon 4K UHD content. I just returned my RUIPro Hybrid Fiber back to Amazon.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with COSEMI Active Optical AOC? The cables look new to market but company looks like leaders in the optical space.
> https://www.amazon.com/COSEMI-Active-Optical-Plenum-Cable/dp/B07JFQDGLM?th=1


ARC over about 20’ has issues with a lot of cables for various reasons. You have to make sure that the cable specifically states that it is ARC capable. It can also depend on whether you need to enable CEC as well. There are lots of issues with CEC due to incompatibility that can affect ARC.

The Cosemi cable hits all the marketing propaganda so maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. Active cables can have ARC issues due to the chipsets in the sink end (tv) of the cable. All you can do is try.


----------



## rhapsody1

Otto Pylot said:


> ARC over about 20’ has issues with a lot of cables for various reasons. You have to make sure that the cable specifically states that it is ARC capable. It can also depend on whether you need to enable CEC as well. There are lots of issues with CEC due to incompatibility that can affect ARC.
> 
> The Cosemi cable hits all the marketing propaganda so maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. Active cables can have ARC issues due to the chipsets in the sink end (tv) of the cable. All you can do is try.


Thanks and yeh - I know, agree with everything you are saying. Fingers crossed eARC fixes this someday....

P.S. Bought a FURUI HFPRO-30 and had zero sound out of the ARC @ 10m for their Fiber Hybrid cable. At least the RUIPro had sound - just dropouts that were every 10-20 seconds or so making it unwatchable!


----------



## ruipro

Hello guys,

Nice to be here again! It has been a long time to post here. Thanks everyone!

I am director of RUIPRO. Any issues or questions please contact us freely via our official email.
I am pleased to support you and also we need your advices to improve our product quality.

THOMAS


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhapsody1 said:


> Thanks and yeh - I know, agree with everything you are saying. Fingers crossed eARC fixes this someday....
> 
> P.S. Bought a FURUI HFPRO-30 and had zero sound out of the ARC @ 10m for their Fiber Hybrid cable. At least the RUIPro had sound - just dropouts that were every 10-20 seconds or so making it unwatchable!



eARC is part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol set. However it, along with VRR (for the gamers) can be accessed on the HDMI 2.0b hardware chipsets if the device mfr chooses to implement those features with a firmware upgrade ( providing that the chipset was designed with the upgrade in mind). eARC is an HDMI chipset implementation, not a cable implementation. If the cable is capable of ARC, then eARC should work as well provided that both, the source and sink end of the HDMI chain have complementary HDMI chipsets. The cable is just the data pipe. All of the "magic" happens in the HDMI hardware side of things. Basically all of your HDMI-connected devices have to have the same HDMI chipsets in them to take advantage of all of the options that the device mfr makes available. 



What I'm hoping for is that the device mfrs who are beginning to push HDMI 2.1 actually list which HDMI 2.1 options are available so the consumer knows what they are getting. It's too easy for the mfrs to flash the HDMI 2.0b hardware to accept eARC and VRR and call their device "HDMI 2.1", because technically it would be, but it would have only two of the HDMI 2.1 hardware options.


----------



## LondonBenji

Otto Pylot said:


> If the cable is capable of ARC, then eARC should work as well provided that both, the source and sink end of the HDMI chain have complementary HDMI chipsets.


To clarify, you need a cable that is an HDMI Ethernet Channel (HEC) certified cable for eARC. Supporting ARC is not an indication of supporting eARC, supporting HEC is the indication of whether or not it should support eARC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LondonBenji said:


> To clarify, you need a cable that is an HDMI Ethernet Channel (HEC) certified cable for eARC. Supporting ARC is not an indication of supporting eARC, supporting HEC is the indication of whether or not it should support eARC.


Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified for all HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications, which includes ethernet. According the HDMI.org, "_The Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet and the High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet will also support eARC_". However, HDMI.org does confuse the matter somewhat by stating that "_Manufacturers can produce products that are compatible with both eARC and ARC. However, eARC is not defined to be backwards compatible with ARC_". I take that to be a reference to the hardware and not the data pipe (cable). This is where the confusion with smoke and mirrors is going to happen. You may be able to get an Ultra High Speed HDMI cable (48Gbps) which supports eARC, but if you don't have the HDMI chipset hardware, all you will be able to do is ARC, maybe.

CTS (Compliance Testing Specification) 2.1 was released in Nov. 2018 which allows mfrs to submit repeaters, sources and sinks for testing by an ATC.


----------



## matsen

Will it come an updated list of tested cables?

The old test report in the first post is... old! 

Some of the tested cables that got good results arent for sale any longer and I guess simply replaced with other product numbers.

And there is quite a lot of these "optical" HDMI cables from both cheap and expensive brands. 
Would be really appreciated to see an updated test.

BR

PS. As I'm living in Sweden both Ruipro and Monoprice are kind of hard to buy locally. DS.


----------



## Otto Pylot

matsen said:


> Will it come an updated list of tested cables?
> 
> The old test report in the first post is... old!
> 
> Some of the tested cables that got good results arent for sale any longer and I guess simply replaced with other product numbers.
> 
> And there is quite a lot of these "optical" HDMI cables from both cheap and expensive brands.
> Would be really appreciated to see an updated test.
> 
> BR
> 
> PS. As I'm living in Sweden both Ruipro and Monoprice are kind of hard to buy locally. DS.



Don't know if AV-ARROW has any plans on continuing with their testing of cables. It is difficult, and expensive, to keep up with all of the cables coming to market whether they be brand new designs or just re-branded cables. If Ruipro or Monoprice are not available where you live then I would just look for a well made (subjective I know) hybrid fiber cable if your run is over about 20'.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi Matsen

We ship RuiPro to lots of Customers in Sweden from our base in Scotland and supplied sample cables to HemmaBio a month or two back for Review - https://hemmabiotidningen.se/test/e/3803/

Joe


----------



## mindedc

nonstopdoc1 said:


> Its a RuiPro fiber cable 10m. I have used a similar one in the past with no issues. Cable goes through the wall plate on rear wall from unfinished area. Changing cable wont be an issue If I need to. Its the projector that is mounted too close to the rear wall.


I have the exact same issue, PJ is too close to rear wall for the extended length of the Ruipro cable. I am using without issue a "4K 18Ghz" right angle connector from Amazon between the Ruipro and the JVC projector. 4K60 UHD 18Ghz works fine. My cable is a bit longer at 45 feet but it works perfectly.


----------



## matsen

Hi,

I can buy both ruipro and monoprice here in Sweden via Amazon or eBay. But not from the local stores, which I try to do. 

But there's quite a few cheap noname brands with similar products for 60-70$. Some of them I have found tests or customer reviews of and some of them seems to be working well.

But as I need to buy two cables, one 12m and one 15m, and it will be connected to an old non 4k-projector. So I guess most cables will work but I would like to be sure that they are going to work when I upgrade to 4k.

And as I was searching for tests on the web I found this thread. 😇

Maybe I just have to do spend a little more money to be sure to get quality.


----------



## matsen

Joe Fernand said:


> Hi Matsen
> 
> We ship RuiPro to lots of Customers in Sweden from our base in Scotland and supplied sample cables to HemmaBio a month or two back for Review - https://hemmabiotidningen.se/test/e/3803/
> 
> 
> Joe


Thanks! I hope we will see your products in the local stores as well.


----------



## mtbdudex

Has the official Denon HDMI Diagnostics and Troubleshooting manual been posted here?
It's a good resource for those with H series AVR's, I have used it with my 8500H to test HDMI cables, etc


----------



## mtbdudex

This 50 foot LUXE cable shows passing per this attached test, yet the post#1 says it failed, so I'm confused


I am actually using it in my RS400 setup - works 100% fine with my Xbox 1X, tested it with the Denon HDMI tester I posted above and it passed all the tests ....


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi Matsen

Unlikely you will see them 'In-store' - they are a bit 'niche' for most Retailers. Most of our Trade and Retailer customers call off orders as and when they require a cable.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

mtbdudex said:


> This 50 foot LUXE cable shows passing per this attached test, yet the post#1 says it failed, so I'm confused
> 
> 
> I am actually using it in my RS400 setup - works 100% fine with my Xbox 1X, tested it with the Denon HDMI tester I posted above and it passed all the tests ....



Certified by who? It's an active cable so anything can wrong with the sink-end chipset. Maybe it was just a bad cable.


----------



## TrendSetterX

mtbdudex said:


> This 50 foot LUXE cable shows passing per this attached test, yet the post#1 says it failed, so I'm confused
> 
> 
> I am actually using it in my RS400 setup - works 100% fine with my Xbox 1X, tested it with the Denon HDMI tester I posted above and it passed all the tests ....


There’s no HDR/DV testing being done in what you show which pushes much higher bit rates and that’s where the tests start failing.


----------



## mrtickleuk

TrendSetterX said:


> There’s no HDR/DV testing being done in what you show which pushes much higher bit rates and that’s where the tests start failing.


Eh? The picture shows 4K60 8bits [rgb] passing - the first and toughest test. That picture mode is 17.82Gbps of a maximum 18Gbps. Which is the mode with a higher bit rate than 17.82Gbps? 4K60 4:2:2 12bit is the same bandwidth.


----------



## TrendSetterX

mrtickleuk said:


> Eh? The picture shows 4K60 8bits [rgb] passing - the first and toughest test. That picture mode is 17.82Gbps of a maximum 18Gbps. Which is the mode with a higher bit rate than 17.82Gbps? 4K60 4:2:2 12bit is the same bandwidth.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc


----------



## mrtickleuk

TrendSetterX said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc


Yes, that confirms what I said. There are no HDMI2.0 modes with higher bandwidth than 17.82Gbps. It's a "High Speed" cable, meaning a max of 18Gbps, and it passes all those tests. It is *not* an "Ultra High Speed" which is the new standard for carrying the higher bandwidths that HDMI 2.1.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> Yes, that confirms what I said. There are no HDMI2.0 modes with higher bandwidth than 17.82Gbps. It's a "High Speed" cable, meaning a max of 18Gbps, and it passes all those tests. It is *not* an "Ultra High Speed" which is the new standard for carrying the higher bandwidths that HDMI 2.1.



Yep. Premium High Speed HDMI are certified by an ATC for HDMI 2.0b (18Gbps), up to 25' (maybe 30' for some mfrs). Ultra High Speed HDMI, which are yet to be certified by an ATC, will be for HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) but no official length has been determined, yet.


----------



## TrendSetterX

mrtickleuk said:


> Eh? The picture shows 4K60 8bits [rgb] passing - the first and toughest test. That picture mode is 17.82Gbps of a maximum 18Gbps. Which is the mode with a higher bit rate than 17.82Gbps? 4K60 4:2:2 12bit is the same bandwidth.


The pictures don’t say anything about which chroma is being used.


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. Premium High Speed HDMI are certified by an ATC for HDMI 2.0b (18Gbps), up to 25' (maybe 30' for some mfrs). Ultra High Speed HDMI, which are yet to be certified by an ATC, will be for HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) but no official length has been determined, yet.


Indeed.


----------



## TrendSetterX

TrendSetterX said:


> The pictures don’t say anything about which chroma is being used.


Additionally, the cable appears to be the previous (not current) generation of “active” technology (based on the fact that there are reviews and Q&A from 2017) which underscores the fact that this cable can’t do full UHD/60/4:2:2/12 . Folks with proper testing equipment have shown this cable not capable. We don’t need to beat a dead horse.


----------



## matsen

Joe Fernand said:


> Hi Matsen
> 
> Unlikely you will see them 'In-store' - they are a bit 'niche' for most Retailers. Most of our Trade and Retailer customers call off orders as and when they require a cable.
> 
> Joe


I guess you are right, the retailers/stores here seems to go for the known brands like Supra (Swedish brand), Kramer or Fibbr.

But why not start asking to get them in local stores? Or maybe you have already done that?


----------



## Talking Rain

*UGREEN fiber HDMI*

I purchased the 10 meter UGREEN fiber HDMI from Amazon. The main reason I choose this over Monoprice and Ruipro was price and Amazon prime shipping. Just under $100 with excellent performance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Talking Rain said:


> I purchased the 10 meter UGREEN fiber HDMI from Amazon. The main reason I choose this over Monoprice and Ruipro was price and Amazon prime shipping. Just under $100 with excellent performance.



I'm glad that they work. The packaging is a bit odd in that it implies that they are "HDMI 2.0" cables which is exactly what HDMI.org did not want cable mfrs to sell their cables as. They should just be listed as High Speed HDMI cables that meet the HDMI 2.0b, which are the current HDMI hardware specifications. But, not being able to read Japanese maybe that's what the packaging says  



They are active cables so you may encounter issues down the road with the chipsets either failing after a period of time or not being able to keep up with the ever-evolving video standards. At 30', hopefully you've installed them in a conduit because you will eventually be changing the cables out.


How's your weather in Lake Oswego? We're up here in Bull Mountain.


----------



## Lasalle

ruipro said:


> Hi Venicenerd,
> 
> Thank you for your interest.
> I will post here and advise you when sample is avilable.
> It should be ordered via our paypal account for a period(1 month).
> 
> Once the cable is vefiried fully we will launch them to our Distribution/AMZ/AMZ Global Shipping.
> BTW, we currently have distributors in Italy/Spain/UK. Othere areas we are still developing.
> Thank you,
> 
> Thomas


Hi, did the new cable with the shielded copper section get released?


----------



## Talking Rain

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm glad that they work. The packaging is a bit odd in that it implies that they are "HDMI 2.0" cables which is exactly what HDMI.org did not want cable mfrs to sell their cables as. They should just be listed as High Speed HDMI cables that meet the HDMI 2.0b, which are the current HDMI hardware specifications. But, not being able to read Japanese maybe that's what the packaging says
> 
> 
> 
> They are active cables so you may encounter issues down the road with the chipsets either failing after a period of time or not being able to keep up with the ever-evolving video standards. At 30', hopefully you've installed them in a conduit because you will eventually be changing the cables out.
> 
> 
> How's your weather in Lake Oswego? We're up here in Bull Mountain.


Yes, I was surprised Chinese was the first language on the packaging and I agree with the advertised HDMI 2.0. I don't recall it being listed that way in the Amazon ad, if it was it was much more subtle...

Yes, its in a conduit so it's pretty easy to swap but hopefully I won't be in it anytime soon again. I only needed about 25 feet but I was so close to the 25 foot copper limits I thought way not give it a try. At just under $100 and 18 month warranty it felt like a reasonable risk. Maybe I assumed too much but aren't all fiber cables active? So I'd have the same issues with chipsets failing or not keeping up with evolving standards?

I'm up high in Mt. Park area of Lake O. Had some snow and roads where kind of crazy Saturday but it warmed up last night and now the streets are clear of snow and ice. Now just a typical February day in Oregon...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Talking Rain said:


> Yes, I was surprised Chinese was the first language on the packaging and I agree with the advertised HDMI 2.0. I don't recall it being listed that way in the Amazon ad, if it was it was much more subtle...
> 
> Yes, its in a conduit so it's pretty easy to swap but hopefully I won't be in it anytime soon again. I only needed about 25 feet but I was so close to the 25 foot copper limits I thought way not give it a try. At just under $100 and 18 month warranty it felt like a reasonable risk. Maybe I assumed too much but aren't all fiber cables active? So I'd have the same issues with chipsets failing or not keeping up with evolving standards?
> 
> I'm up high in Mt. Park area of Lake O. Had some snow and roads where kind of crazy Saturday but it warmed up last night and now the streets are clear of snow and ice. Now just a typical February day in Oregon...


Chinese, not Japanese  Got my characters wrong. With a conduit you are fine in case anything goes wrong (I'm a bit leery of Chinese products that clearly come from China). Conduit is the only truly way to "future proof" your cabling.

We have some friends who just moved into a house on the lake (Lakefront Drive) so we are looking forward to spending time on the lake in the spring/summer. We had mostly snail (*SN*ow and ha*IL*) up here last night with lots of wind which created some small drifts. Just really rainy now.


----------



## ruipro

Lasalle said:


> Hi, did the new cable with the shielded copper section get released?


Hi Lasalle,

Yes, the current cable is with shileded copper section, thank you.

Thomas


----------



## wanab

Talking Rain said:


> I purchased the 10 meter UGREEN fiber HDMI from Amazon. The main reason I choose this over Monoprice and Ruipro was price and Amazon prime shipping. Just under $100 with excellent performance.


I just bought these on Amazon...coming Thursday...hope this last longer than the DTech one...those went out after 2 months by constant flickering....when pulled out to change , the plastic cover around ends came apart and wouldn't stay together...


----------



## Otto Pylot

wanab said:


> I just bought these on Amazon...coming Thursday...hope this last longer than the DTech one...those went out after 2 months by constant flickering....when pulled out to change , the plastic cover around ends came apart and wouldn't stay together...


That's one of the major issues when installing cables in a long run. Damage to the connector ends. The use of conduit and a pull string can minimize that somewhat but one still needs to be careful, especially if there are bends in the run.


----------



## wanab

Otto Pylot said:


> That's one of the major issues when installing cables in a long run. Damage to the connector ends. The use of conduit and a pull string can minimize that somewhat but one still needs to be careful, especially if there are bends in the run.


The long run wasn't the problem...the bad end was the source end at Blue-ray player....just pulled it out and bam the housing split in two....luckily they are offering a refund....will try another brand "Ugreen"


----------



## Otto Pylot

wanab said:


> The long run wasn't the problem...the bad end was the source end at Blue-ray player....just pulled it out and bam the housing split in two....luckily they are offering a refund....will try another brand "Ugreen"


Wow. At least you got a refund. Not very good qc it would appear. Ugreen is a Chinese manufacturing/wholesale distributor who has been in business for about 9 years.


----------



## LondonBenji

Talking Rain said:


> I purchased the 10 meter UGREEN fiber HDMI from Amazon. The main reason I choose this over Monoprice and Ruipro was price and Amazon prime shipping. Just under $100 with excellent performance.


I bought my Ruipro from Amazon, I paid $103.80 after tax for the 15m cable (it was a lightning deal)....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07287LTRZ/

For reference, they currently have 10% off the 10m cable so you can get that for ~$135. Free one day Prime shipping as well.


----------



## thadius65

Anyone have experience with the cables sold on Crutchfield? They are Metra Install Bay Active Hybrid HDMI Cable - MFR # IB-HDAOC-050. 

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120AOC50/Metra-Install-Bay-Active-Hybrid-HDMI-Cable-50-feet.html

I have some credit there and would like to spend it on something worthy.

Thanks!

Ted


----------



## Otto Pylot

thadius65 said:


> Anyone have experience with the cables sold on Crutchfield? They are Metra Install Bay Active Hybrid HDMI Cable - MFR # IB-HDAOC-050.
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120AOC50/Metra-Install-Bay-Active-Hybrid-HDMI-Cable-50-feet.html
> 
> I have some credit there and would like to spend it on something worthy.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ted



If you need a 50' run it can't hurt to try them. They may work just fine. Nothing special about the cable. It appears to be a garden-variety hybrid fiber cable that apparently meets HDMI 2.0b hardware specs, but no mention on how that has been verified. At 50' hopefully you have your cable installed in a conduit or at least is easily accessible in case you need to change/replace it.


----------



## Sacramentojoe

Sacramentojoe said:


> Interesting experience: ran a bunch of HDMI under our floor (basically trenched some concrete and layed underlayment and Hardwood atop). The run is probably 35' under the floor, but then there is 3 feet from the wall outlet to the devices, 3 feet from the wall outlet to the receiver, 3 feet from receiver to second wall outlet, 6 feet up that wall outlet to an outlet behind the TV, and 3 feet from that outlet to the television.
> I had done some testing prior to wiring under floor and all seemed ok, but as I was testing after the install (direct from one outlet to another skipping receiver) PS4 signal would go in and out. X360 signal inconsistent, at one point giving me a bunch of green pixelation and at one point working when I turned it on but not after starting a game.
> My signal from PC was running just fine.
> After connecting everything to receiver, PS4 and X360 signals work just fine.
> Not using 4K, hopefully when/if I upgrade that will work too.
> Any insight as to why this occured?


Still wondering if anyone has any ideas about this. Today I ran a video from PC with following specs: 
FRAMERATE........: 23.976 fps
BITRATE..........: 28.8 Mbps 
RESOLUTION.......: 1920 x 1080 
AUDIO 1..........: English TrueHD Atmos 7.1 5027 Kbps
AUDIO 2..........: English Dolby Digital 5.1 640 Kbps 

When using Audio 1, there was stutter to the point where I couldn't listen to it, the video ran smoothly though. Switching to Audio 2, no issues. Tested the video on my tablet and Audio 1 track ran just fine.


Additional details--- Receiver is Atmos enabled, the 35ft cable under the floor is redmere, but with high degree of confidence I believe I lay the cable opposite of how it's meant. Non-bi-directional for amplification purposes.


Will try more troubleshooting this evening when I get home, just hoping there might be other reasons for the issue than the length of run.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hopefully you ran your cable in a conduit so you can swap out your cables.


Redmere cables are active cables in that they have a chipset in the sink end (tv side) which draws a little bit of power from the HDMI input for error correction, timing, etc. The idea is to extend the cable run past the maximum 25' certifiable distance to maintain signal integrity. They are "uni-directional" in that you need to lay the cable source to sink. Works great for 1080 but 4k and 4k HDR may be problematic. You need to lay the cable in the correct orientation, period. The other problem with active cables can be the chipsets in the sink end. If they are not current, then you will have issues as you move up to 4k HDR and beyond.



The best cable connection is a direct connection, source to sink, without any "breaks" in the cable chain. A "break" can be considered an extension, wall plate, etc. 4k HDR is really finicky with its connection so it is always best to keep the extension as simple, and clean as possible. You also need to take into consideration the bend radius of the cable. A tight 90 degree bend will adversely affect the signal path.


With a cable run over about 25', and if you want to push 4k HDR and beyond, the current recommendation is to use a hybrid fiber cable such as Ruipro. They get very favorable reviews from the folks who have used them on long runs. However, they are pricey and you still need to go source to sink with no interruptions in the signal path.


----------



## Sacramentojoe

Otto Pylot said:


> Hopefully you ran your cable in a conduit so you can swap out your cables.
> 
> 
> Redmere cables are active cables in that they have a chipset in the sink end (tv side) which draws a little bit of power from the HDMI input for error correction, timing, etc. The idea is to extend the cable run past the maximum 25' certifiable distance to maintain signal integrity. They are "uni-directional" in that you need to lay the cable source to sink. Works great for 1080 but 4k and 4k HDR may be problematic. You need to lay the cable in the correct orientation, period. The other problem with active cables can be the chipsets in the sink end. If they are not current, then you will have issues as you move up to 4k HDR and beyond.
> 
> 
> 
> The best cable connection is a direct connection, source to sink, without any "breaks" in the cable chain. A "break" can be considered an extension, wall plate, etc. 4k HDR is really finicky with its connection so it is always best to keep the extension as simple, and clean as possible. You also need to take into consideration the bend radius of the cable. A tight 90 degree bend will adversely affect the signal path.
> 
> 
> With a cable run over about 25', and if you want to push 4k HDR and beyond, the current recommendation is to use a hybrid fiber cable such as Ruipro. They get very favorable reviews from the folks who have used them on long runs. However, they are pricey and you still need to go source to sink with no interruptions in the signal path.


Thanks!

Home now, and oddly my receiver is picking up DAtmos when using windows media player with this file, VLC causes the receiver to list linear PCM 7.1, and that is when I get the stutter. So maybe a software issue?

At some point I'll check the HDMI ends to see if I wired correctly, but doubt I did. And did not run conduit. I figured if I ever needed to upgrade wiring we'd go through attic, though that will undoubtedly require lengthening the run even more. The goal was to house most electronics in media closet, but if needed when I upgrade to 4K, I can keep up to two devices right at Receiver location, and only 10-12 feet of wire to television from there. Albeit my PC has to remain in media closet, so dunno how that'll go. What about devices that convert HDMI to Cat 6 and back?

EDIT: Updated VLC, apparently on a very old version. This ---kinda--- solved the stutter issue. The audio now plays normal, but I'm finding there is still occasional "skips". Moved the PC to attach direct to receiver, seems to be improved. But also that was my restart after updating VLC, so when I moved PC back, seems to have improved. Having a tough time determining whether this is in fact an HDMI issue or a PC issue. Either way, also investigated and discovered I did not use redmere, actually used 25 FT cables under the floor.

I'd be less doubtful that it's an HDMI problem, except I utilize my PS4 through same lines with no issue running 3D BD and 7.1 bitstream. Tough to figure it all out.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ if you installed the active cable backwards, then you will either get no signal or one that is very poor. You can't damage anything but pq et all will suffer to the point of being unusable. 

If you used passive HDMI cables, as you now indicate, and your run is over the magical 25' mark, then you just don't have the capacity and reliability to run anything but maybe 720/1080. If your passive HDMI cable run is under 25', then I highly recommend using an Premium High Speed HDMI cable, one that has been tested and certified to meet all HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. It's not a 100% guarantee to work but it's the best you can do for cables at present. At the very least you should be using High Speed HDMI cables.

It's also imperative that your devices are all on the same version of HDMI chipsets. Otherwise your connectivity will only be at the in-common HDMI protocol sets. In other words, if your PC only has HDMI 1.4 hardware, but your tv has HDMI 2.0b hardware, you will only be able to pass and properly decode whatever the HDMI 1.4 hardware is capable of. That's one of the biggest issues when upgrading a tv to the current video standards. If your other HDMI connected devices are not on the same page, you will have issues.

CAT-6 to HDMI requires HDBT (HDBaseT) connections. However, you should be using solid core CAT-6 cabling (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable). The solid core CAT-6 can be terminated with a punch down keystone jack to extend and ethernet connection or terminated with HDBT to extend and HDMI connection. There are drawbacks with HDBT at present so so your homework if you decide to pursue that. You also need a power source for the HDBT termination.

Keep your connections as simple as possible. Single cable from source to sink with no extenders, wall plates, etc for the best reliability.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Does someone know if there are bi-directional HDMI cables in lengths up to 150 ft? I'm looking at something for going between my MacBPro and NAS? I know the Monoprice doesn't. I'm not certain about the Ruipro. It supports ARC supposedly, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will allow bi-direction. I be better at asking these questions if I knew what I was talking about. I'm winging it and learning as I go.


----------



## Otto Pylot

DennisLJacob said:


> Does someone know if there are bi-directional HDMI cables in lengths up to 150 ft? I'm looking at something for going between my MacBPro and NAS? I know the Monoprice doesn't. I'm not certain about the Ruipro. It supports ARC supposedly, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will allow bi-direction. I be better at asking these questions if I knew what I was talking about. I'm winging it and learning as I go.


150’ is going to be tough for any cable. If by bi-directional you mean ARC the answer is probably no. If you aren’t referring to ARC then what are you trying to accomplish?


----------



## DennisLJacob

double post


----------



## DennisLJacob

I'm asking about using the MBPro with my NAS box and data and/movies/videos going back and forth between them. Most of the cables seem to be directional with the source end powering the cable. But it seems you can't let the other end of the cable be a "source" at the same time. I don't know if these cables allow that bi-directional sources. But maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Here is a fiber optic cable that uses USB plugs at each end. It doesn't mention that they are directional. The other cables I've seen appear to have a "source" end and projector end. This cable doesn't mention it, which doesn't mean it isn't directional either. Though it does say it supports ARC.

https://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5363

The Ruipro mentions that it supports ARC too, but I'm not sure it is bi-directional or not.


----------



## TrendSetterX

DennisLJacob said:


> Here is a fiber optic cable that uses USB plugs at each end. It doesn't mention that they are directional. The other cables I've seen appear to have a "source" end and projector end. This cable doesn't mention it, which doesn't mean it isn't directional either. Though it does say it supports ARC.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5363
> 
> 
> 
> The Ruipro mentions that it supports ARC too, but I'm not sure it is bi-directional or not.


You’re confusing general data transmission with multimedia transmission. HDMI cables are for one-way transmission of audio/video/data between a source (example: blu-ray player) and a display (example: a TV). Generally, the most common reason one would ever connect a NAS to a display via HDMI is if it’s a QNAP being used for video surveillance duty. Otherwise, the purpose of a NAS (and the definition of NAS) is network-attached-storage, which means you would never run any kind of connection (media, data, or otherwise) directly between the NAS and whatever is being used to browse/display content from the NAS. Instead, just having them on the same network would allow the MacBookPro to access the content on the NAS with no physical direct connection at all.

Can you explain exactly what it is you’re trying to do?


----------



## DennisLJacob

I have a Qnap TVS 1282 NAS and it has 3 HDMI outputs. I was under the assumption that for moving video from the MBP to the NAS or NAS to MBP would be over the HDMI cable. But maybe that isn't necessary. I've installed a 10G ethernet setup between the NAS and my AV closet and then to my MBP/projector location with a 10G Thunderbolt 3 setup on the MBP side. I installed a 10G card in the NAS and I've replaced my switches with 10G ethernet switches with Cat 7 cables. I may not have a clue and I'll admit it up front. Perhaps I don't need to worry about this at all. But I thought if I load my movies via a BR drive on the MBP to the NAS via ethernet that to then view those files on the NAS that they would be sent via HDMI back to the projector or back to the MBP. 

Am I clueless? yes, but how bad?


----------



## TrendSetterX

DennisLJacob said:


> I have a Qnap TVS 1282 NAS and it has 3 HDMI outputs. I was under the assumption that for moving video from the MBP to the NAS or NAS to MBP would be over the HDMI cable. But maybe that isn't necessary. I've installed a 10G ethernet setup between the NAS and my AV closet and then to my MBP/projector location with a 10G Thunderbolt 3 setup on the MBP side. I installed a 10G card in the NAS and I've replaced my switches with 10G ethernet switches with Cat 7 cables. I may not have a clue and I'll admit it up front. Perhaps I don't need to worry about this at all. But I thought if I load my movies via a BR drive on the MBP to the NAS via ethernet that to then view those files on the NAS that they would be sent via HDMI back to the projector or back to the MBP.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I clueless? yes, but how bad?


There’s a better forum than this one for your questions, but the short answer is that it’s likely you won’t be using the HDMI connections on your QNAP at all. Instead you’ll rely on a network media player/streamer (AppleTv, Shield, Roku, etc) located with your theater/tv equipment that will then y’all over your network to your QNAP. The specifics, and what services/software/plugins you’ll need are way outside the scope of this thread. I believe there is s general “media streaming” forum here at AVS which would be a better area for getting you the details you need (post a new question there and open with generally what it is you’re trying to accomplish and some smart QNAP folks will tell you everything you need to know. I’m a Synology user so I can’t speak to QNAP specifics.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Thanks for the help and recommendations TrendSetterX.


----------



## Desert Snake

*Any BKMs for pulling Ruipro cable through conduit?*

I just bought a 12 meter Ruipro cable. I'm going to pull it through a 4 inch conduit. I have an existing HDMI cable (which doesn't work) that i could use or pull a string through the conduit to pull the new Ruipro cable. 

*Any BKMs for pulling Ruipro cable through conduit? *

I was just going to tape up the cable to either the existing HDMI cable or a string i pull through with the existing cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desert Snake said:


> I just bought a 12 meter Ruipro cable. I'm going to pull it through a 4 inch conduit. I have an existing HDMI cable (which doesn't work) that i could use or pull a string through the conduit to pull the new Ruipro cable.
> 
> *Any BKMs for pulling Ruipro cable through conduit? *
> 
> I was just going to tape up the cable to either the existing HDMI cable or a string i pull through with the existing cable.



That would be a good idea. Just tape the fiber cable securely to the existing cable and pull. No sense in leaving the old cable there if it doesn't work. Just make sure that the fiber cable is taped far enough behind the connector on the existing cable so any stress from pulling the cable thru is completely on the old cable. Pay attention to the cable direction. You don't want to install it backwards.


----------



## Milt99

A couple of tips for running cables through smurf or pvc conduit or pvc conduit.
Having experience many years ago of running large IBM cables through multiple stories of chases in a building constructed in 1914.

The guys who ran this 1.5" copper cable had a tub of cable lubricant that they coated all of the cables with.
Wouldn't have worked without it.

When I built out my theater\music room in 2007, instead of "string" we used poly-twine.
Very slippery and far stronger than any comparable cotton string.

Tape a big blob of polymat big enough to plug the conduit but slide easily to the twine, insert into one end & put a shop vac with an attachment with an end close to your conduit size of the opposite & fire it up.
We wrapped the end with duct tape to ensure a good seal.
The poly twine sucked through like a whistle.


----------



## Mr.G

LondonBenji said:


> I bought my Ruipro from Amazon, I paid $103.80 after tax for the 15m cable (it was a lightning deal)....
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07287LTRZ/
> 
> For reference, they currently have 10% off the 10m cable so you can get that for ~$135. Free one day Prime shipping as well.


Amazon is now selling your particular Ruipro HDMI cable with a 15% discount coupon. However the 20% discount coupon on the Ruipro Hybrid 15m cable caught my eye and after being on the fence for over a year I jumped on the deal. With some Amazon points it cost me ~$67. One day shipping. Installed it yesterday and everything is working properly.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B7M65YF/


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> Amazon is now selling your particular Ruipro HDMI cable with a 15% discount coupon. However the 20% discount coupon on the Ruipro Hybrid 15m cable caught my eye and after being on the fence for over a year I jumped on the deal. With some Amazon points it cost me ~$67. One day shipping. Installed it yesterday and everything is working properly.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B7M65YF/


Those are good cables. They even work perfectly at much shorter lengths as well. Ruipro sent me some short lengths (see my review) to test out and they were fine. An overkill fer sure but there are no issues with them being active and at a short length.


----------



## mtbdudex

ruipro said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to be here again! It has been a long time to post here. Thanks everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> I am director of RUIPRO. Any issues or questions please contact us freely via our official email.
> 
> I am pleased to support you and also we need your advices to improve our product quality.
> 
> 
> 
> THOMAS




I have a Denon X8500H, it will have HDMI 2.1 board upgrade this summer.
For now my projector is the JVC RS400.

I need a cable 40 feet long, based on advice in the thread I’m looking at this as solution now.
Are the ends swappable at later point for 2.1 compatibility? Or will new cable itself and ends be needed for 2.1?












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

mtbdudex said:


> I have a Denon X8500H, it will have HDMI 2.1 board upgrade this summer.
> For now my projector is the JVC RS400.
> 
> I need a cable 40 feet long, based on advice in the thread I’m looking at this as solution now.
> Are the ends swappable at later point for 2.1 compatibility? Or will new cable itself and ends be needed for 2.1?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


HDMI.org’s ATC certification program has just started to accept connectors for 2.1 compliance. They haven’t finalized the CTS’s for the cables yet so it’s anybody’s guess as to when the complete package, cable and connectors will be available to consumers. There were prototype cables shown at CES this year but nothing is ready yet. HDMI.org stated in their HDMI 2.1 specifications that fully compliant HDMI 2.1 would require a “special 48Gbps cable” with a maximum length of 1-3m (3’-9’) so there are some technical issues that still need to be overcome with active hybrid fiber cables. It is still too early to worry about what will work reliably or not. All you can do is make sure you install your cabling in a conduit, or is easily accessible so you can swap it out if and when it becomes necessary. 40’ is going to probably be difficult for HDMI 2.1. There’s going to be a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding HDMI 2.1 so caveat emptor.


----------



## mtbdudex

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI.org’s ATC certification program has just started to accept connectors for 2.1 compliance. They haven’t finalized the CTS’s for the cables yet so it’s anybody’s guess as to when the complete package, cable and connectors will be available to consumers. There were prototype cables shown at CES this year but nothing is ready yet. HDMI.org stated in their HDMI 2.1 specifications that fully compliant HDMI 2.1 would require a “special 48Gbps cable” with a maximum length of 1-3m (3’-9’) so there are some technical issues that still need to be overcome with active hybrid fiber cables. It is still too early to worry about what will work reliably or not. All you can do is make sure you install your cabling in a conduit, or is easily accessible so you can swap it out if and when it becomes necessary. 40’ is going to probably be difficult for HDMI 2.1. There’s going to be a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding HDMI 2.1 so caveat emptor.



Ordered , I got 15% off also 
I will also run 4 cat6 cables there 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

mtbdudex said:


> Ordered , I got 15% off also
> I will also run 4 cat6 cables there
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That cable will work fine with HDMI 2.0b at your length. As far as removable connectors, no. I’ve done some testing of Ruipro’s shorter length cables (see my review on this forum) and we had some discussions on HDMI 2.1. Fully compliant HDMI 2.1 cables are still a ways off. Part of the issue is HDMI.org. As long as you run in a conduit, and have an available power source close by you should be able to upgrade to 2.1 if, and when it is possible at that length. HDMI inputs may not be able to deliver the power necessary for 2.1 and long runs.

If you run CAT-6, make sure it is solid core CAT-6 (not terminated, non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable).

When you upgrade your Denon it would be advisable to upgrade your other connected devices as well if you plan on using all of the feature sets avaialable for HDMI 2.1. Otherwise you will only be able to use the in-common HDMI 2.0b options. eARC/VRR are possible on the 2.0b chipsets if the device mfr designed them to be upgraded.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Ignore any mention of HDMI Version numbers by hardware manufacturers - they should be sticking to highlighting which Features any piece of kit supports and not mentioning version numbers in any marketing. 

Until hardware sporting New Features arrives and are easily tested it is hard to say with any certainty how things will or will not work once you start to introduce new hardware to your system.

As Otto says plan ahead and assume the worst!

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> Ignore any mention of HDMI Version numbers by hardware manufacturers - they should be sticking to highlighting which Features any piece of kit supports and not mentioning version numbers in any marketing.
> 
> Until hardware sporting New Features arrives and are easily tested it is hard to say with any certainty how things will or will not work once you start to introduce new hardware to your system.
> 
> As Otto says plan ahead and assume the worst!
> 
> Joe


I agree with Joe about the HDMI version numbers. The device mfrs need to list the feature sets available, NOT the version number. This all comes under what I call the HDMI Smoke and Mirrors. There are going to a lot of disappointed folks with their “HDMI 2.1” devices and/or upgrades.


----------



## Mr.G

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are good cables. They even work perfectly at much shorter lengths as well. Ruipro sent me some short lengths (see my review) to test out and they were fine. An overkill fer sure but there are no issues with them being active and at a short length.


Yes, they seem to be very good cables. Surprisingly soft and flexible and about half the width of my older Bluejeans HDMI cable. Pleased so far.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> Yes, they seem to be very good cables. Surprisingly soft and flexible and about half the width of my older Bluejeans HDMI cable. Pleased so far.


They also fit quite nicely in conduits and tight HDMI inputs.


----------



## mtbdudex

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*

And just like magic all my HDMI issues are gone...temp installed 50’ last night.









Is there a market for thick fat non bendable 50 foot long HDMI cables?











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

mtbdudex said:


> And just like magic all my HDMI issues are gone...temp installed 50’ last night.
> 
> Is there a market for thick fat non bendable 50 foot long HDMI cables?



 You must be in hog heaven with the new Ruipro cable! In my review post of the short hybrid fiber Ruipro cables I had mentioned that even the short cables they sent me were just a bit too long so I just used the enclosed velcro ties and made some nice, neat loops in the cables. That way they fit quite nicely behind my media console and it all looked neat and organized. No issues with the bending (bend radius) of the cable's whatsoever. And the connector ends are narrow enough to easily connect in a horizontal or vertical position.


----------



## Mr.G

Mr.G said:


> Amazon is now selling your particular Ruipro HDMI cable with a 15% discount coupon. However the 20% discount coupon on the Ruipro Hybrid 15m cable caught my eye and after being on the fence for over a year I jumped on the deal. With some Amazon points it cost me ~$67. One day shipping. Installed it yesterday and *everything is working properly*.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B7M65YF/


My initial assessment wasn't quite correct. Ran into a snag yesterday when trying to watch something on my 50" Panasonic plasma set (2010), the picture and sound were cutting out and back again in about 5 second intervals. My Denon X2300W AVR is set up for dual output since I have both the Panasonic and my Epson HC4000 4K projector in the same room. The Panasonic is used little and mostly as a monitor.

It seemed that the problem could be the Ruipro chipset is interfering with the Denon's HDMI dual outputs. If I pulled the Ruipro cable out the flashing stopped, reinstalled the cable and it started flashing again. I tried replacing the HDMI cable from Denon to the Panasonic with a new 3 foot Monoprice certified cable with no change. I then went into the Denon setup menu and changed the setting from dual to a single output to the Panasonic and the flashing stopped. Changed it back to dual output and the flashing started again.

Meanwhile the Epson projector is not affected at all in dual output mode and why I didn't notice the issue at first. So my solution for the meanwhile is to leave the Denon in dual output since I use the projector primarily for everything. If and when I need to use the Panasonic I will go into the Denon menu and change it to single output for the TV set. Not a huge issue just bothersome. This did not occur with my older BlueJeans HDMI cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> My initial assessment wasn't quite correct. Ran into a snag yesterday when trying to watch something on my 50" Panasonic plasma set (2010), the picture and sound were cutting out and back again in about 5 second intervals. My Denon X2300W AVR is set up for dual output since I have both the Panasonic and my Epson HC4000 4K projector in the same room. The Panasonic is used little and mostly as a monitor.
> 
> It seemed that the problem could be the Ruipro chipset is interfering with the Denon's HDMI dual outputs. If I pulled the Ruipro cable out the flashing stopped, reinstalled the cable and it started flashing again. I tried replacing the HDMI cable from Denon to the Panasonic with a new 3 foot Monoprice certified cable with no change. I then went into the Denon setup menu and changed the setting from dual to a single output to the Panasonic and the flashing stopped. Changed it back to dual output and the flashing started again.
> 
> Meanwhile the Epson projector is not affected at all in dual output mode and why I didn't notice the issue at first. So my solution for the meanwhile is to leave the Denon in dual output since I use the projector primarily for everything. If and when I need to use the Panasonic I will go into the Denon menu and change it to single output for the TV set. Not a huge issue just bothersome. This did not occur with my older BlueJeans HDMI cable.



Interesting. It could be that there is an issue with the Ruipro active cable and power draw from the dual HDMI ouput when both are active. The Monoprice and BJC cables are passive so no power issues.


----------



## Mr.G

Otto Pylot said:


> Interesting. It could be that there is an issue with the Ruipro active cable and power draw from the dual HDMI ouput when both are active. The Monoprice and BJC cables are passive so no power issues.


Ruipro seems to agree. When I posted this issue yesterday I also sent the text to Ruipro support including a link to this thread. They promised to consult with their engineers about my problem.

Their response today:



> We analysed the issue internally today with our engineer.
> 
> You are almost right that the flashing is caused by the RUIPRO 50ft.
> 
> RUIPRO 50FT cable needs 5v power drawing from the Denon HDMI output.
> 
> Usually most HDMI ports do not consider enough to provide enough power for all the HDMI ports working with power drawing out at the same time.
> 
> So we are sorry that this brought you bothersome.
> 
> But we would like to provide you a new replacement for double confirmation to check the root cause.
> 
> As we also just not 100% sure of the root cause.
> 
> Thank you,


I accepted their offer of a replacement cable to test so I guess we'll see.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> Ruipro seems to agree. When I posted this issue yesterday I also sent the text to Ruipro support including a link to this thread. They promised to consult with their engineers about my problem.
> 
> I accepted their offer of a replacement cable to test so I guess we'll see.



It does make sense when you consider that a dual output HDMI probably has a single power source that is just not sufficient for simultaneous active cables, unless your particular cable had a power circuit that just wasn't up to spec. That's one of the downsides of active cables, at least in the past. They can have issues being as they are small electronic devices and any electronic device has to potential of failure. And at your length, any fluctuation in power draw may can issues. I use 4 hybrid fiber cables that Ruipro sent me to test on my system but none of them are connected to a dual HDMI output, which is different from your situation, and they are all very short lengths so I wouldn't expect any issues.


----------



## giomania

Mr.G said:


> My initial assessment wasn't quite correct. Ran into a snag yesterday when trying to watch something on my 50" Panasonic plasma set (2010), the picture and sound were cutting out and back again in about 5 second intervals. My Denon X2300W AVR is set up for dual output since I have both the Panasonic and my Epson HC4000 4K projector in the same room. The Panasonic is used little and mostly as a monitor.
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed that the problem could be the Ruipro chipset is interfering with the Denon's HDMI dual outputs. If I pulled the Ruipro cable out the flashing stopped, reinstalled the cable and it started flashing again. I tried replacing the HDMI cable from Denon to the Panasonic with a new 3 foot Monoprice certified cable with no change. I then went into the Denon setup menu and changed the setting from dual to a single output to the Panasonic and the flashing stopped. Changed it back to dual output and the flashing started again.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile the Epson projector is not affected at all in dual output mode and why I didn't notice the issue at first. So my solution for the meanwhile is to leave the Denon in dual output since I use the projector primarily for everything. If and when I need to use the Panasonic I will go into the Denon menu and change it to single output for the TV set. Not a huge issue just bothersome. This did not occur with my older BlueJeans HDMI cable.




I continue to have intermittent audio “stutters” with my 50’ RuiPro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, and Denon AVR-X3500H. I even tried a voltage inserter. If you want to read the details about it, I can find the post in the Radiance Pro thread.

Jim from Lumagen did say that the voltage inserter was not needed as the Pro had no problem driving the active cables.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ any active cable can have issues, but Lumagen's response seems to fall into the "it's not our problem it's theirs" category. How is the bend radius of the cable? Have you connected the cable to another source? Are you using a dual HDMI output at the same time?


----------



## pm240sx

So I'm a little confused and maybe I missed something here. I'm looking at the ruipro 10 M cable but I see 2 different ones and I can't tell what the difference is. One has a better coupon code from amazon 20% vs 15%. Whats the difference?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...2f5-9ae91aab54f2&pf_rd_r=KQ1GN2G9F4PZBNDTQEZS
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B7L1QD...olid=2RNZVSGL243NM&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Otto Pylot

pm240sx said:


> So I'm a little confused and maybe I missed something here. I'm looking at the ruipro 10 M cable but I see 2 different ones and I can't tell what the difference is. One has a better coupon code from amazon 20% vs 15%. Whats the difference?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...2f5-9ae91aab54f2&pf_rd_r=KQ1GN2G9F4PZBNDTQEZS
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B7L1QD...olid=2RNZVSGL243NM&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it



The second cable, B07B7L1QD5 supports 1080p @ 120Hz and is only 33' long. The other cable, B07287LTRZ supports 1080p @ 240Hz and is 50' long. The B07B7L cable lists HDR10 but not Dolby Vision in the specs whereas B07287 lists DV as well as HDR10 in the specs. My guess is that both support DV and HDR10 and the spec description at the bottom of the page is a typo. The B07B7L has the newer connectors and I've been using shorter versions in my system to test for Ruipro (see my review on this forum).


----------



## pm240sx

Otto Pylot said:


> The second cable, B07B7L1QD5 supports 1080p @ 120Hz and is only 33' long. The other cable, B07287LTRZ supports 1080p @ 240Hz and is 50' long. The B07B7L cable lists HDR10 but not Dolby Vision in the specs whereas B07287 lists DV as well as HDR10 in the specs. My guess is that both support DV and HDR10 and the spec description at the bottom of the page is a typo. The B07B7L has the newer connectors and I've been using shorter versions in my system to test for Ruipro (see my review on this forum).


Thanks if i didn't link the right one i meant to link both 10 M cables at the same price. So it looks like it makes sense to order the newer one with the bigger discount. Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pm240sx said:


> Thanks if i didn't link the right one i meant to link both 10 M cables at the same price. So it looks like it makes sense to order the newer one with the bigger discount. Thanks.


I didn't notice the discounts but I'd go with the one with the silver-looking connectors because that's what I have and tested and I believe they are the newer ones.


----------



## thetman

since one of the HDMI end connectors went bad on my 40ft. celerity I was looking into Ruipro-seems to be the go-to cable around here. A bit confused on various models. saw these two- but not sure what the big differences are- except one says it supports DV. suggestions? Am I even looking at the correct ones?

Running from yamaha 3060 to JVC projector

https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Suppo...3001222&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull-spons&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber...+12m&qid=1553001222&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

this is the only shown on the Ruipro site-assuming this would be the one?
https://www.ruipro.com/shop/ruipro-hdmi-fiber-cable-12m/


----------



## Mr.G

Otto Pylot said:


> It does make sense when you consider that a dual output HDMI probably has a single power source that is just not sufficient for simultaneous active cables, unless your particular cable had a power circuit that just wasn't up to spec. That's one of the downsides of active cables, at least in the past. They can have issues being as they are small electronic devices and any electronic device has to potential of failure. And at your length, any fluctuation in power draw may can issues. I use 4 hybrid fiber cables that Ruipro sent me to test on my system but none of them are connected to a dual HDMI output, which is different from your situation, and they are all very short lengths so I wouldn't expect any issues.


Just to check if the problem was just low voltage coming out of the Denon I purchased an inexpensive "Cable Matters Powered 4K HDMI Extender (HDMI Repeater/HDMI Coupler) Up to 100 Feet Supporting HDMI 2.0 at 4K 60Hz with 5V Power Supply". Installed it yesterday with no change in the picture and sound blinking in and out at regular intervals. Ruipro has informed me that a new replacement cable to test has been shipped out via DHL.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> Just to check if the problem was just low voltage coming out of the Denon I purchased an inexpensive "Cable Matters Powered 4K HDMI Extender (HDMI Repeater/HDMI Coupler) Up to 100 Feet Supporting HDMI 2.0 at 4K 60Hz with 5V Power Supply". Installed it yesterday with no change in the picture and sound blinking in and out at regular intervals. Ruipro has informed me that a new replacement cable to test has been shipped out via DHL.


Hmmm. Any device/cable mfr can have a product from time to time that just fails after QC/QA. The biggest drawback of active cables that is see is the electronics in the connector ends because they are so small, and do so much, that failures in the wild are apt to happen. Hopefully after a long period of usage but anything is possible. That's one of the reasons why I and others recommend using conduits for long cable runs. It makes swapping out cables SO much easier and safer if one has to. Ruipro seems to be very responsive to the customer so let's hope a new cable performs as expected. Let us know.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thetman said:


> since one of the HDMI end connectors went bad on my 40ft. celerity I was looking into Ruipro-seems to be the go-to cable around here. A bit confused on various models. saw these two- but not sure what the big differences are- except one says it supports DV. suggestions? Am I even looking at the correct ones?
> 
> Running from yamaha 3060 to JVC projector
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Suppo...3001222&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull-spons&psc=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber...+12m&qid=1553001222&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull
> 
> this is the only shown on the Ruipro site-assuming this would be the one?
> https://www.ruipro.com/shop/ruipro-hdmi-fiber-cable-12m/


I believe I answered that in my response to pm240sx above. The cables that I have are the ones with the silver-like connectors. The cable listed on the Ruipro site is more expensive but that's because you are purchasing directly from them and not thru Amazon with their discounts. Unfortunately there are some issues with the product descriptions which is confusing. I've asked Ruipro for clarity. I think if you go with the 12m cable that has the silver-like connectors you'll be fine. The cables are very flexible, and well made, but you still need to be mindful of bend radius. If you're installing in a conduit, which you should be at that length, then controlling the bend radius and safely fishing the cable thru is so much easier.


----------



## thetman

Otto Pylot said:


> I believe I answered that in my response to pm240sx above. The cables that I have are the ones with the silver-like connectors. The cable listed on the Ruipro site is more expensive but that's because you are purchasing directly from them and not thru Amazon with their discounts. Unfortunately there are some issues with the product descriptions which is confusing. I've asked Ruipro for clarity. I think if you go with the 12m cable that has the silver-like connectors you'll be fine. The cables are very flexible, and well made, but you still need to be mindful of bend radius. If you're installing in a conduit, which you should be at that length, then controlling the bend radius and safely fishing the cable thru is so much easier.


thanks, silver it is then. yes it can be a bit confusing sometimes. much appreciated. 
My installer suggested Audioquest ( not sure what model). But haven't heard much about their 4K Fiber cables here. Also they tend to be a bit expensive.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thetman said:


> thanks, silver it is then. yes it can be a bit confusing sometimes. much appreciated.
> My installer suggested Audioquest ( not sure what model). But haven't heard much about their 4K Fiber cables here. Also they tend to be a bit expensive.



AudioQuest does make good cables but they are typically way over priced for what you get (at least their copper-based only cables). If your installer is recommending them my guess is that they get something back for pushing AudioQuest. I don't recommend AudioQuest or Monster cables at all. There are other cables that perform just as well for a lot less. Ruipro cables are not cheap but at least they seem to be a bit more honest in their marketing.


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> I continue to have intermittent audio “stutters” with my 50’ RuiPro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, and Denon AVR-X3500H. I even tried a voltage inserter. If you want to read the details about it, I can find the post in the Radiance Pro thread.
> 
> Jim from Lumagen did say that the voltage inserter was not needed as the Pro had no problem driving the active cables.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ any active cable can have issues, but Lumagen's response seems to fall into the "it's not our problem it's theirs" category. How is the bend radius of the cable? Have you connected the cable to another source? Are you using a dual HDMI output at the same time?



Hi Otto,

I should have noted this issue is only with one of my six sources; specifically the TiVo Roamio Pro DVR, so I don’t think it is the cable that is the issue, but usually HDMI problems are cable-related, so...

That said, Lumagen has fixed the problems caused by other manufacturers, so if I can finish troubleshooting and providing them with information they might be able to help.

Here are some details: 

The cable is installed in conduit and I would estimate the smallest bend radius at 6” (if my Google Fu is strong today) where it exits the wall in the family room.

I am using dual HDMI outputs on the Radiance Pro, and may have dual HDMI output on the Denon AVR in the family room turned on but am not using it. So that is one thing to check.

The TiVo is set to output bitstream audio, like all my source devices, except the Apple TV 4K, which doesn’t have that option.

Thanks.

Mark



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I should have noted this issue is only with one of my six sources; specifically the TiVo Roamio Pro DVR, so I don’t think it is the cable that is the issue, but usually HDMI problems are cable-related, so...
> 
> That said, Lumagen has fixed the problems caused by other manufacturers, so if I can finish troubleshooting and providing them with information they might be able to help.
> 
> Here are some details:
> 
> The cable is installed in conduit and I would estimate the smallest bend radius at 6” (if my Google Fu is strong today) where it exits the wall in the family room.
> 
> I am using dual HDMI outputs on the Radiance Pro, and may have dual HDMI output on the Denon AVR in the family room turned on but am not using it. So that is one thing to check.
> 
> The TiVo is set to output bitstream audio, like all my source devices, except the Apple TV 4K, which doesn’t have that option.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


An interesting issue came up the other day with a Ruipro hybrid fiber cable, which are active cables. A poster had some intermittent issues when the cable was connected to a device that had dual HDMI outputs and both outputs were active at the same time. The thought is that some dual HDMI outputs may use power from the same source, and even though an active cable only uses +5v or thereabouts, there may be enough of a fluctuation because both outputs are drawing power concurrently that the cable isn't drawing enough consistent power. Try disabling one of the outputs or remove a cable and see if you still have problems with the Ruipro cable connection.

The hybrid fiber cables are flexible enough that I doubt if your bend radius is an issue. I've tested short length hybrid fiber cables (6') and had to make a couple of loops so that they would hang easily and be out of the way and I don't have any issues whatsoever with audio/video from any source (ATV4k and UBK90).


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> An interesting issue came up the other day with a Ruipro hybrid fiber cable, which are active cables. A poster had some intermittent issues when the cable was connected to a device that had dual HDMI outputs and both outputs were active at the same time. The thought is that some dual HDMI outputs may use power from the same source, and even though an active cable only uses +5v or thereabouts, there may be enough of a fluctuation because both outputs are drawing power concurrently that the cable isn't drawing enough consistent power. Try disabling one of the outputs or remove a cable and see if you still have problems with the Ruipro cable connection.
> 
> 
> 
> The hybrid fiber cables are flexible enough that I doubt if your bend radius is an issue. I've tested short length hybrid fiber cables (6') and had to make a couple of loops so that they would hang easily and be out of the way and I don't have any issues whatsoever with audio/video from any source (ATV4k and UBK90).




The Denon AVR in the family room did have the HDMI output set at the default Auto (Dual) output, so I set it to monitor 1, and we’ll see if that makes any difference.

The Ruipro cable goes to the input of this AVR though, so I’m not really hopeful but we’ll see.

Thanks for the tip.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> The Denon AVR in the family room did have the HDMI output set at the default Auto (Dual) output, so I set it to monitor 1, and we’ll see if that makes any difference.
> 
> The Ruipro cable goes to the input of this AVR though, so I’m not really hopeful but we’ll see.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Forgive me for asking but you do have the cable installed in the correct direction? It's a simple thing to overlook, and as much as I hate to admit, I did install an active cable backwards once  If you can disable one of the dual HDMI inputs so that only one is active, the Ruipro cable should work like it does on a single HDMI out device.


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> Forgive me for asking but you do have the cable installed in the correct direction? It's a simple thing to overlook, and as much as I hate to admit, I did install an active cable backwards once  If you can disable one of the dual HDMI inputs so that only one is active, the Ruipro cable should work like it does on a single HDMI out device.




Here is the cable at the output of the Radiance pro:











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ Yep. That would be the source end.


----------



## subacabra

Concerning the flashing signal with dual outputs on Denon avrs. I had the same issue running dual with my Sony 900e and Benq ht2050 on my x6200w.
Swapped out the hdmi for pj with a blue jeans cables hdmi yet the problem persisted.
It could have something to do with one display being 4k etc and the other 1080.
I simply change to either output 1 or 2 and there are no signal losses.
Currently waiting on the new Benq ht3550 4k so we'll see how it behaves with two 4k capable displays.
I do have a 40 foot Ruipro I will be replacing the BJC with as well.


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> The Denon AVR in the family room did have the HDMI output set at the default Auto (Dual) output, so I set it to monitor 1, and we’ll see if that makes any difference.
> 
> The Ruipro cable goes to the input of this AVR though, so I’m not really hopeful but we’ll see.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Unfortunately, the behavior did not change. I really think this is the TiVo's fault, and I even have the Lumagen input set to limit to 1080p, as recommended by Lumagen for older sources that sometimes need this setting to help them perform better with the Lumagen's 18 GHz inputs. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.

Thanks Otto.


----------



## Mr.G

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm. Any device/cable mfr can have a product from time to time that just fails after QC/QA. The biggest drawback of active cables that is see is the electronics in the connector ends because they are so small, and do so much, that failures in the wild are apt to happen. Hopefully after a long period of usage but anything is possible. That's one of the reasons why I and others recommend using conduits for long cable runs. It makes swapping out cables SO much easier and safer if one has to. Ruipro seems to be very responsive to the customer so let's hope a new cable performs as expected. Let us know.


I received the replacement 15m Ruipro HDMI cable within a few days of shipping from China. I wrote back to Ruipro this morning with my results.



> Thank you, the cable arrive promptly. I have been testing the cable with varied results.
> 
> I laid out the replacement 15m Ruipro cable on the floor between the Denon HDMI output #1 to the Epson HC4000 projector. Powered on the Projector, Denon and Panasonic.
> 
> No change to previous behavior. The Panasonic was blinking on and off at regular 5 second intervals.
> 
> Then I tried to use a 32" LED HDTV (720p/1080i) to see if the Panasonic TV was the issue. The 32" set also displayed the blinking behavior.
> 
> So my conclusion is the original cable was not defective.
> 
> I reconnected the Panasonic and disconnected the replacement Ruipro cable and the Panasonic picture stopped blinking and was steady, no blinking.
> 
> After watching the Panasonic for a few minutes I decided to connect the original Ruipro HDMI cable to the Denon while it was still powered on.
> 
> Surprise! The Denon successfully displayed a picture on the Epson and Panasonic simultaneously. Enclosed is a photo.
> 
> I turned off the Panasonic and back on again. The picture began to blink again.
> 
> Last night I watched a film on the Epson projector using the Denon for sound. Before turning off the equipment I powered on the Panasonic.
> 
> The Denon displayed a picture to both the Epson and Panasonic without blinking.
> 
> Then in sequence I turned off the Denon, it is set to pass-thru video when off. After a brief period of black screen both the Epson and Panasonic displayed a perfect picture.
> 
> Then I turned off the Epson...and the picture on Panasonic began to blink on and off.
> 
> Perhaps you run this information past your engineers. It seems to me that there may be a 'handshake' protocol problem between these 3 units but it's a total guess at this point.
> 
> If you need any further information from me please let me know.
> 
> Thank you.


I'll wait to see what the Ruipro engineers have to say about this.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> I received the replacement 15m Ruipro HDMI cable within a few days of shipping from China. I wrote back to Ruipro this morning with my results.
> 
> I'll wait to see what the Ruipro engineers have to say about this.


That is definitely a head scratcher. I does sound like some sort of handshake issue though. My guess is that it would be the Denon somehow but without using dual HDMI outs myself I can only guess as to where the issue lies. I would be very interested as well to hear what Ruipro has to say. It may be that their active cables may have issues with some dual HDMI out systems. It would be nice to hear from other folks who use a concurrent dual HDMI out and the Ruipro cables. The problem with cable mfrs troubleshooting issues is that they almost have to have access to the same customer setups to adequately test issues. There could be varying dual HDMI board designs that work better with some active cables than others. Again, it's all speculation at this point in time.


----------



## timelinex

Otto Pylot said:


> If you're installing in a conduit, which you should be at that length, then controlling the bend radius and safely fishing the cable thru is so much easier.


Any recommendations on how sharp of a turn is ok? 

Have they replied back to anyone yet when asked what the differences in those 2 cables actually are? Also, I am sorry if this was asked before but how good is their lifetime warranty? Is it worth getting the 4 year square trade warranty addition, or is their limited warranty good enough that if the product stops working afters years they replace it?

Thanks!


----------



## mrtickleuk

timelinex said:


> Any recommendations on how sharp of a turn is ok?


Roughly the diameter of a mug IMHO.


----------



## Otto Pylot

timelinex said:


> Any recommendations on how sharp of a turn is ok?
> 
> Have they replied back to anyone yet when asked what the differences in those 2 cables actually are? Also, I am sorry if this was asked before but how good is their lifetime warranty? Is it worth getting the 4 year square trade warranty addition, or is their limited warranty good enough that if the product stops working afters years they replace it?
> 
> Thanks!


The bending radius is 15mm to 30mm, 10 circles can work. Basically you could fish the cables thru a 90 degree elbow in a conduit without any worries at all. The cables that I tested for my system were short length but still a bit long so I have them coiled up behind my media console so they are neet and out of the way. No issues. That being said, I would not install them with sharp bends (severe 90 degree angle) to where the outer casing has a wrinkle in the casing. Everyone's setup is a bit different so you just have to use your judgement on how sharp of a bend you need to use or are willing to go. Rule of thumb is keep the bend radius as gentle as possible for any type of long cable run. The outer diameter of the cable is about 5mm. @mrtickleuk's coffee mug analogy is maybe a bit extreme but would be a good, very safe guide to go by.

Lifetime warranties are interesting because I haven't seen the fine print on how "lifetime" is defined. I do know that they are fairly quick to replace a cable if the original purchaser thinks there is an issue but they haven't been around long enough to try the "lifetime" claim. They are active cables so there is always the risk, as with any active cable, of the electronics going bad in the source or sink end. They also have a power rating of 4.5V - 5.5V so the HDMI input needs to be consistent and free from electrical issues.

I've asked Ruipro about the two different cables and they were a bit surprised that one had black or darker connector ends and one had silver looking connector ends. They sent me the ones with the silver ends direct from the factory. The product number of the Ultra-Slim Active HDMI Optical cables (hybrid fiber) is SNAOC20V102A. They are also looking into the slight differences in the Product Description and Specifications because that is a bit confusing and it may be something that is out of their control is someone is reselling their cables or, god forbid, selling fake ones.

The cables have been tested to meet all current HDMI 2.0b specifications. They have been specifically tested for HDR and HDR10 but not specifically for HLG, HDR10+, or Dolby Vision. They currently do not have certified HLG, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision devices to test on. If those other specifications fall under HDMI 2.0b then the cables should work just fine. My ATV4k has an HDMI cable test for DV and it passed without issues. Anything I've streamed has been problem free as well as the 4k UHD HDR blu-ray disks I have.


----------



## timelinex

Otto Pylot said:


> The bending radius is 15mm to 30mm, 10 circles can work. Basically you could fish the cables thru a 90 degree elbow in a conduit without any worries at all. The cables that I tested for my system were short length but still a bit long so I have them coiled up behind my media console so they are neet and out of the way. No issues. That being said, I would not install them with sharp bends (severe 90 degree angle) to where the outer casing has a wrinkle in the casing. Everyone's setup is a bit different so you just have to use your judgement on how sharp of a bend you need to use or are willing to go. Rule of thumb is keep the bend radius as gentle as possible for any type of long cable run. The outer diameter of the cable is about 5mm. @mrtickleuk's coffee mug analogy is maybe a bit extreme but would be a good, very safe guide to go by.
> 
> Lifetime warranties are interesting because I haven't seen the fine print on how "lifetime" is defined. I do know that they are fairly quick to replace a cable if the original purchaser thinks there is an issue but they haven't been around long enough to try the "lifetime" claim. They are active cables so there is always the risk, as with any active cable, of the electronics going bad in the source or sink end. They also have a power rating of 4.5V - 5.5V so the HDMI input needs to be consistent and free from electrical issues.
> 
> I've asked Ruipro about the two different cables and they were a bit surprised that one had black or darker connector ends and one had silver looking connector ends. They sent me the ones with the silver ends direct from the factory. The product number of the Ultra-Slim Active HDMI Optical cables (hybrid fiber) is SNAOC20V102A. They are also looking into the slight differences in the Product Description and Specifications because that is a bit confusing and it may be something that is out of their control is someone is reselling their cables or, god forbid, selling fake ones.
> 
> The cables have been tested to meet all current HDMI 2.0b specifications. They have been specifically tested for HDR and HDR10 but not specifically for HLG, HDR10+, or Dolby Vision. They currently do not have certified HLG, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision devices to test on. If those other specifications fall under HDMI 2.0b then the cables should work just fine. My ATV4k has an HDMI cable test for DV and it passed without issues. Anything I've streamed has been problem free as well as the 4k UHD HDR blu-ray disks I have.


Thank you for all the info!

Two more questions:

1. Do you know if their 20m cables work on devices that are known to work good with shorter cables but be finicky with longer cables? The PS4 Pro comes to mind.

2. If I have a 20m and 12m cable and they both work when used seperately. Does that mean they will work if one is used to go to the AVR and the other from the AVR to the projector. I assume the AVR reboosts the signal?

Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

timelinex said:


> Thank you for all the info!
> 
> Two more questions:
> 
> 1. Do you know if their 20m cables work on devices that are known to work good with shorter cables but be finicky with longer cables? The PS4 Pro comes to mind.
> 
> 2. If I have a 20m and 12m cable and they both work when used seperately. Does that mean they will work if one is used to go to the AVR and the other from the AVR to the projector. I assume the AVR reboosts the signal?
> 
> Thanks


1. I don't have any specific information on that. 60' is long for any cable so the other factors certainly come into play: HDMI chipsets and board design of the source/sink, bend radius, and a certain amount of luck 

2. A lot of HTS's, mine included, will use the AVR as the hub so all of your devices are connected to the AVR and then a single (usually) cable goes from the AVR to the display device. The AVR is sort of a pass-through. You can use active cables on either side of the AVR. In other words, the PS4 would be the source and the AVR would be the sink. Going to the projector, the AVR would then be the source and the projector would be the sink. 

Cable distance is always going to be the achilles heel for 4k HDR over 25'. There are no 100% guarantees so if you go the hybrid fiber route, thoroughly test the cables out by laying them on the floor in some what of a configuration that would mimic how they would be installed in-wall and test. Once satisfied, install them and see if you get the same results. If not, something may have happened during installation. That's why we recommend a well designed conduit. And speaking of a conduit, install a pull string for future cable pulls and it's also not a bad idea to lay in some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) in case you find a need for it later on (extending an ethernet connection via punchdown keystone jacks is one).


----------



## timelinex

Otto Pylot said:


> 1. I don't have any specific information on that. 60' is long for any cable so the other factors certainly come into play: HDMI chipsets and board design of the source/sink, bend radius, and a certain amount of luck
> 
> 2. A lot of HTS's, mine included, will use the AVR as the hub so all of your devices are connected to the AVR and then a single (usually) cable goes from the AVR to the display device. The AVR is sort of a pass-through. You can use active cables on either side of the AVR. In other words, the PS4 would be the source and the AVR would be the sink. Going to the projector, the AVR would then be the source and the projector would be the sink.
> 
> Cable distance is always going to be the achilles heel for 4k HDR over 25'. There are no 100% guarantees so if you go the hybrid fiber route, thoroughly test the cables out by laying them on the floor in some what of a configuration that would mimic how they would be installed in-wall and test. Once satisfied, install them and see if you get the same results. If not, something may have happened during installation. That's why we recommend a well designed conduit. And speaking of a conduit, install a pull string for future cable pulls and it's also not a bad idea to lay in some solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) in case you find a need for it later on (extending an ethernet connection via punchdown keystone jacks is one).


I did some research to try and future proof it as much as possible and what I came up with was the Cat 6a and just a conduit for any far future tech. I was planning on running a Cat 6a from the AVR/media closet to both the screen area(that holds my gaming systems too) and the projector. Does this fit the bill:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NPOPTK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1

I tink it does, but I got a little confused by you saying not ethernet cable. 

Lastly, is there an easy way to really test the HDMI cable? Currently I have an Epson 5040UB which is 4k and that's not super high end so I don't tihnk I'll be able to test anything more than basic 4k functionality.


----------



## Otto Pylot

timelinex said:


> I did some research to try and future proof it as much as possible and what I came up with was the Cat 6a and just a conduit for any far future tech. I was planning on running a Cat 6a from the AVR/media closet to both the screen area(that holds my gaming systems too) and the projector. Does this fit the bill:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NPOPTK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1
> 
> I tink it does, but I got a little confused by you saying not ethernet cable.
> 
> Lastly, is there an easy way to really test the HDMI cable? Currently I have an Epson 5040UB which is 4k and that's not super high end so I don't tihnk I'll be able to test anything more than basic 4k functionality.


The ONLY way to future proof your cabling for long runs is to install 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.

Solid core CAT-6 cable is NOT the same as CAT-6 ethernet patch cable, which is what your link is. Solid Core CAT-6 cable is usually purchased in spools of 25' or longer and is not terminated. Solid core is solid copper cable, not Copper Coated Aluminum (CCA). 23AWG, gigabit ethernet capable, 155mbps ATM, IEEE 802.3, 802.5, 802.12, CM, UTP. You can terminate it with a punchdown keystone jack to extend your ethernet connection, which is what I've done to hardwire my HTS's, or terminate it with active termination like HDBT to extend your HDMI connection. Currently HDBT termination may have issues with HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications until the transceiver/receivers get the latest HDMI chipsets.

For your HDMI connection at distances longer than 25', hybrid fiber is still your best bet. Solid core CAT-6 would be your best bet to extend your ethernet connection. If you install two solid core CAT-6 cables, then you have the flexibility of extending your ethernet connection now and have the extra cable in case HDBT is something you want or need to pursue down the road. You could even run coax in your conduit if that's something you think you might need, along with a pull string for future pulls.


----------



## timelinex

Otto Pylot said:


> timelinex said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did some research to try and future proof it as much as possible and what I came up with was the Cat 6a and just a conduit for any far future tech. I was planning on running a Cat 6a from the AVR/media closet to both the screen area(that holds my gaming systems too) and the projector. Does this fit the bill:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NPOPTK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1
> 
> I tink it does, but I got a little confused by you saying not ethernet cable.
> 
> Lastly, is there an easy way to really test the HDMI cable? Currently I have an Epson 5040UB which is 4k and that's not super high end so I don't tihnk I'll be able to test anything more than basic 4k functionality.
> 
> 
> 
> The ONLY way to future proof your cabling for long runs is to install 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.
> 
> Solid core CAT-6 cable is NOT the same as CAT-6 ethernet patch cable, which is what your link is. Solid Core CAT-6 cable is usually purchased in spools of 25' or longer and is not terminated. Solid core is solid copper cable, not Copper Coated Aluminum (CCA). 23AWG, gigabit ethernet capable, 155mbps ATM, IEEE 802.3, 802.5, 802.12, CM, UTP. You can terminate it with a punchdown keystone jack to extend your ethernet connection, which is what I've done to hardwire my HTS's, or terminate it with active termination like HDBT to extend your HDMI connection. Currently HDBT termination may have issues with HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications until the transceiver/receivers get the latest HDMI chipsets.
> 
> For your HDMI connection at distances longer than 25', hybrid fiber is still your best bet. Solid core CAT-6 would be your best bet to extend your ethernet connection. If you install two solid core CAT-6 cables, then you have the flexibility of extending your ethernet connection now and have the extra cable in case HDBT is something you want or need to pursue down the road. You could even run coax in your conduit if that's something you think you might need, along with a pull string for future pulls.
Click to expand...

The cable I linked specifically says it is not CCA. From the listing : "All Cable Matters Cat 6A cables are made of bare copper wire as opposed to copper clad aluminum (CCA) wire"

If it's not the right one, can you link me to one for sale somewhere , because I couldn't find anything like what you described.

Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

timelinex said:


> The cable I linked specifically says it is not CCA. From the listing : "All Cable Matters Cat 6A cables are made of bare copper wire as opposed to copper clad aluminum (CCA) wire"
> 
> If it's not the right one, can you link me to one for sale somewhere , because I couldn't find anything like what you described.
> 
> Thanks



I forgot to add that the solid copper wires are individually insulated, twisted in four pairs, and then encased in a jacket. I use solid core from Sewell, product # SW-30625.


----------



## TrendSetterX

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Otto Pylot said:


> I forgot to add that the solid copper wires are individually insulated, twisted in four pairs, and then encased in a jacket. I use solid core from Sewell, product # SW-30625.


? You may be confused on basic category cable differences. All category cable uses individually insulated conductors. Some cables (STP) additionally insulate the pairs. Some cables (S/STP) additionally insulate the pairs and add an extra outer layer of insulation. Starting at Cat6, cables also include a rigid insulator down the center of the cable that not only provides better/more consistent separation of pairs but also helps increase bend radius to reduce pinching.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> ? You may be confused on basic category cable differences. All category cable uses individually insulated conductors. Some cables (STP) additionally insulate the pairs. Some cables (S/STP) additionally insulate the pairs and add an extra outer layer of insulation. Starting at Cat6, cables also include a rigid insulator down the center of the cable that not only provides better/more consistent separation of pairs but also helps increase bend radius to reduce pinching.



Not confused at all. I was just pointing out to the poster that both types of cables follow the basic Category Standards without going into too much detail.


----------



## timelinex

Otto Pylot said:


> I forgot to add that the solid copper wires are individually insulated, twisted in four pairs, and then encased in a jacket. I use solid core from Sewell, product # SW-30625.


OK. I think I get it. I see that the one I linked is pure copper but the copper is stranded while yours is a solid wire. It's hard to search for because those stranded ones are advertised as solid copper as well (implying non-cca). The main identifiable difference to search for that I found is that the strands in the Solid Copper Wire version is 23AWG where the one I was linking is 26AWG.

The problem is that for 23awg Cat 6A they are all in bulk and the minimum buy in is like $150. They are also unterminated. I have tools to terminate cat 5e, but not 6a. So that means I would have to get new tools as well. 

I might just go with the Cat 6a cables I linked. They are "certified" Cat 6a and not CCA, so should still be pretty damn good. Then I will have a conduit and if I ever need better I can replace them. By then, I am sure there will be ever better tech cables. 

Thank you for all the advice. I appreciate it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

timelinex said:


> OK. I think I get it. I see the main identifiable difference is that the strands in the Solid Copper Wire version is 23AWG where the one I was linking is 26AWG.
> 
> The problem is that for 23awg Cat 6A they are all in bulk and the minimum buy in is like $150. They are also unterminated. I have tools to terminate cat 5e, but not 6a. So that means I would have to get new tools as well.
> 
> I might just go with the Cat 6a cables I linked. They are "certified" Cat 6a and not CCA, so should still be pretty damn good. Then I will have a conduit and if I ever need better I can replace them. By then, I am sure there will be ever better tech cables.
> 
> Thank you for all the advice. I appreciate it.



It depends on what you want to do with the CAT-6 cable. To extend your ethernet connection just use a punchdown keystone jack (no tools needed) in a wall plate. That way you can just connect a CAT-6 ethernet cable to the wall outlet and then to your device. My solid core connection is well over 100' before it connects, via the punchdown keystone, and then I use CAT-6 ethernet cable to a gigabit switch and then off to my devices. Absolutley no issues at all with streaming 4k HDR.


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> I continue to have intermittent audio “stutters” with my 50’ RuiPro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, and Denon AVR-X3500H. I even tried a voltage inserter. If you want to read the details about it, I can find the post in the Radiance Pro thread.
> 
> Jim from Lumagen did say that the voltage inserter was not needed as the Pro had no problem driving the active cables.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





giomania said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I should have noted this issue is only with one of my six sources; specifically the TiVo Roamio Pro DVR, so I don’t think it is the cable that is the issue, but usually HDMI problems are cable-related, so...
> 
> That said, Lumagen has fixed the problems caused by other manufacturers, so if I can finish troubleshooting and providing them with information they might be able to help.
> 
> Here are some details:
> 
> The cable is installed in conduit and I would estimate the smallest bend radius at 6” (if my Google Fu is strong today) where it exits the wall in the family room.
> 
> I am using dual HDMI outputs on the Radiance Pro, and may have dual HDMI output on the Denon AVR in the family room turned on but am not using it. So that is one thing to check.
> 
> The TiVo is set to output bitstream audio, like all my source devices, except the Apple TV 4K, which doesn’t have that option.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





giomania said:


> The Denon AVR in the family room did have the HDMI output set at the default Auto (Dual) output, so I set it to monitor 1, and we’ll see if that makes any difference.
> 
> The Ruipro cable goes to the input of this AVR though, so I’m not really hopeful but we’ll see.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





giomania said:


> Unfortunately, the behavior did not change. I really think this is the TiVo's fault, and I even have the Lumagen input set to limit to 1080p, as recommended by Lumagen for older sources that sometimes need this setting to help them perform better with the Lumagen's 18 GHz inputs. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
> 
> Thanks Otto.





Otto Pylot said:


> That is definitely a head scratcher. I does sound like some sort of handshake issue though. My guess is that it would be the Denon somehow but without using dual HDMI outs myself I can only guess as to where the issue lies. I would be very interested as well to hear what Ruipro has to say. It may be that their active cables may have issues with some dual HDMI out systems. It would be nice to hear from other folks who use a concurrent dual HDMI out and the Ruipro cables. The problem with cable mfrs troubleshooting issues is that they almost have to have access to the same customer setups to adequately test issues. There could be varying dual HDMI board designs that work better with some active cables than others. Again, it's all speculation at this point in time.


Otto, 

Here may be some useful data for your Ruipro dual-HDMI output theory: While not AVR's with dual outputs, I have used two Lumagen Radiance video processors with multiple outputs with varying results with my 50-foot Ruipro cable, which is interesting. I decided to look up my post in the Lumagen Radiance Pro thread, and noticed that I posted I did not have any issues with the 50-foot Ruipro cable (purchased in July, 2018) when I had the Radiance 2441 in the system. The 2441 has a dual HDMI video outputs limited to 2160p/30. I added the Radiance Pro to the same system in September, 2018, and it has four outputs; two video (2160p/60) / two audio.

So for my issue with the TiVo source, it looks like this may be that the TiVo has an issue with the Radiance Pro's 18 GHz inputs, but I have attempted to mitigate that via the setting in the Pro to limit the source input to 1080p, as Jim Peterson from Lumagen recommended. I just may be stuck with this issue until the TiVo is retired, but I am going to try outputting PCM audio to see if that changes anything.

Anyway, here is the post from the Radiance Pro thread verbatim:



> While the major intermittent audio/video blanking noted above has been solved, I have now turned my attention to a smaller, but still annoying problem with a single source.
> 
> I have a TiVo Roamio Pro DVR that has fairly frequent (~1-2 minute intervals) but intermittent audio blanking that lasts about 2-3 seconds, as well as occasional video blanking that lasts around 5-7 seconds. This is the only source that exhibits these symptoms, and *these symptoms were not present when the same equipment was used with the Radiance 2441*. I am assuming there is some minor syncing issue between the Pro and the Denon AVR-X3500H.
> 
> While we could point to the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid fiber cable in between the pro and the AVR as the culprit and call it a day, however, I did not experience these issues with the Radiance 2441 in the system. Therefore, I am thinking that Lumagen can fix this, as they have done for other offending source devices. Before I send an email to report this, I thought I would ask here:
> 
> Is anyone else using a TiVo Roamio Pro DVR with the Radiance Pro?
> 
> The symptoms occur with live TV or recorded content. I haven’t made any changes to the TiVo or AVR settings in an attempt to mitigate this issue, but I don't know what changes I could make anyway.



What may also be of interest is the post referenced above where I solved the major problem caused when I removed the voltage inserter from the Radiance Pro output, which included some interesting results from my testing of different inputs on my Denon AVR-X3500H.



> I wanted to post an update that I solved my problem and was able to remove the HDMI voltage inserter by switching the Ruipro cable to a different input on the AVR, a Denon AVR-X3500H.
> 
> As noted above, Denon has recommended in the past with other AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices, so I was using input #7 (CD) since I purchased the AVR, as it was the closest input to the outputs. I was using it with the same Ruipro 50-foot cable and the Lumagen Radiance 2041 without the voltage inserter without issues.
> 
> I noted above that I would try the other inputs on the AVR to make the test thorough, and I finally got around to that task, and here are the detailed results. First I removed the voltage inserter from the source end (output of the Lumagen Radiance Pro) of the cable.
> 
> HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT)
> This is farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver. This input resulted in a blanking video signal about every minute, and intermittent audio interruptions that occurred around every 10 seconds or so. The audio interruptions were very brief (milliseconds?), but were frequent enough to be annoying.
> 
> HDMI Input #2 (DVD)
> This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.
> 
> HDMI Input #3 (Blu-ray)
> This input resulted in no video or audio blanking.
> 
> HDMI Input #4 (GAME)
> This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.
> 
> HDMI Input #5 (MEDIA PLAYER)
> This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.
> 
> HDMI Input #6 (AUX2)
> This input resulted in no picture at all; it never synched. I verified the input was set to use HDMI 6.
> 
> HDMI Input #7 (CD)
> This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.
> 
> I don't really see any pattern to the above results, but I am glad I was able to remove the voltage inserter.


Isn't HDMI fun?

Mark


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Isn't HDMI fun?
> 
> Mark



I hate HDMI! There are much better connection technologies but this is what we are stuck with, now and forever  I've seen others post issues when a voltage inserter is used. Could be that these active cables (Ruipro) have really tight tolerances with voltage and just don't play nice, or consistently, with extra voltage sources or inconsistent voltage by the HDMI input. 4.5V to 5.5V doesn't seem to be too tight but who knows? I still say that video technology is still outpacing connection technology and will probably continue to do so for a long time. Thanks for the info. I'll add it to my notes.


----------



## Mr.G

Otto Pylot said:


> That is definitely a head scratcher. I does sound like some sort of handshake issue though. My guess is that it would be the Denon somehow but without using dual HDMI outs myself I can only guess as to where the issue lies. I would be very interested as well to hear what Ruipro has to say. It may be that their active cables may have issues with some dual HDMI out systems. It would be nice to hear from other folks who use a concurrent dual HDMI out and the Ruipro cables. The problem with cable mfrs troubleshooting issues is that they almost have to have access to the same customer setups to adequately test issues. There could be varying dual HDMI board designs that work better with some active cables than others. Again, it's all speculation at this point in time.


As chance would have it I was watching a movie last night on the Epson HC4000 and the picture went off. Checked the projector and the dreaded lamp light was blinking indicating that the lamp was likely dead. Talked to Epson support this morning and they ran me through a bunch of things to try to make sure it wasn't just a glitch. Conclusion - the lamp was dead. My wife asked if the new Ruipro cable was the culprit and I answered I didn't see how but does seem like a strange coincidence.

The lamp had about 1600 hours of use but is rated for up to 5000 hours in eco-mode.


----------



## thetman

Otto Pylot said:


> The bending radius is 15mm to 30mm, 10 circles can work. Basically you could fish the cables thru a 90 degree elbow in a conduit without any worries at all. The cables that I tested for my system were short length but still a bit long so I have them coiled up behind my media console so they are neet and out of the way. No issues. That being said, I would not install them with sharp bends (severe 90 degree angle) to where the outer casing has a wrinkle in the casing. Everyone's setup is a bit different so you just have to use your judgement on how sharp of a bend you need to use or are willing to go. Rule of thumb is keep the bend radius as gentle as possible for any type of long cable run. The outer diameter of the cable is about 5mm. @mrtickleuk's coffee mug analogy is maybe a bit extreme but would be a good, very safe guide to go by.
> 
> Lifetime warranties are interesting because I haven't seen the fine print on how "lifetime" is defined. I do know that they are fairly quick to replace a cable if the original purchaser thinks there is an issue but they haven't been around long enough to try the "lifetime" claim. They are active cables so there is always the risk, as with any active cable, of the electronics going bad in the source or sink end. They also have a power rating of 4.5V - 5.5V so the HDMI input needs to be consistent and free from electrical issues.
> 
> 
> 
> I've asked Ruipro about the two different cables and they were a bit surprised that one had black or darker connector ends and one had silver looking connector ends. They sent me the ones with the silver ends direct from the factory. The product number of the Ultra-Slim Active HDMI Optical cables (hybrid fiber) is SNAOC20V102A. They are also looking into the slight differences in the Product Description and Specifications because that is a bit confusing and it may be something that is out of their control is someone is reselling their cables or, god forbid, selling fake ones.
> 
> The cables have been tested to meet all current HDMI 2.0b specifications. They have been specifically tested for HDR and HDR10 but not specifically for HLG, HDR10+, or Dolby Vision. They currently do not have certified HLG, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision devices to test on. If those other specifications fall under HDMI 2.0b then the cables should work just fine. My ATV4k has an HDMI cable test for DV and it passed without issues. Anything I've streamed has been problem free as well as the 4k UHD HDR blu-ray disks I have.


ordered this cable to replace faulty celerity 40ft. product number you provided matched what I got. hooked it up real quick and picture came on! popped in a 4k disc and all seems good. I was hoping it was just the celerity end connector and I was right. Will watch a few movies to make sure before snaking into conduit. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/icons/post_face_grin.png


----------



## Otto Pylot

thetman said:


> ordered this cable to replace faulty celerity 40ft. product number you provided matched what I got. hooked it up real quick and picture came on! popped in a 4k disc and all seems good. I was hoping it was just the celerity end connector and I was right. Will watch a few movies to make sure before snaking into conduit. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/icons/post_face_grin.png



Great! Let us know.


----------



## Mr.G

Mr.G said:


> As chance would have it I was watching a movie last night on the Epson HC4000 and the picture went off. Checked the projector and the dreaded lamp light was blinking indicating that the lamp was likely dead. Talked to Epson support this morning and they ran me through a bunch of things to try to make sure it wasn't just a glitch. Conclusion - the lamp was dead. My wife asked if the new Ruipro cable was the culprit and I answered I didn't see how but does seem like a strange coincidence.
> 
> The lamp had about 1600 hours of use but is rated for up to 5000 hours in eco-mode.


Epson support was kind enough to send me a free replacement lamp even though the lamp is only warranted for 90 days. Installed it yesterday and it worked fine.

I have also ordered a Onkyo TX-RZ830 (9.2) AVR to replace my Denon X2300W (7.2) AVR. The main reason was to increase the number of Atmos speakers in my setup but it will be interesting to see if I have the same dual HDMI output issues with the Ruipro Hybrid 15m cable.


----------



## drstorm

I tried 

Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 60ft, Black, Product # 30443

And work well at 4k (3860*2140) 4:4:4 @60hz ''between'' my asus GTX 1060 and my lg screen. No glitch, no artifact, no blinking screen.


----------



## Otto Pylot

drstorm said:


> I tried
> 
> Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 60ft, Black, Product # 30443
> 
> And work well at 4k (3860*2140) 4:4:4 @60hz ''between'' my asus GTX 1060 and my lg screen. No glitch, no artifact, no blinking screen.



That's what's so frustrating about HDMI cables. There are no guarantees, regardless of the mfr claims, so for long runs one goes with what "most" people have luck with. However, its always best to carefully shop around and try something that may be a bit more budget friendly than a hybrid fiber. The cable above has the latest Spectra7 chipset so that probably makes all the difference. That and the fact that it has a thicker wire gauge, which helps considerably over long distances. Just be mindful of bend radius and increased strain on the HDMI input. Good choice. Congrats.


----------



## Mr.G

Mr.G said:


> ....
> 
> I have also ordered a Onkyo TX-RZ830 (9.2) AVR to replace my Denon X2300W (7.2) AVR. The main reason was to increase the number of Atmos speakers in my setup but it will be interesting to see if I have the same dual HDMI output issues with the Ruipro Hybrid 15m cable.


I set up my new Onkyo TX-RZ830 over the weekend, it is not exhibiting the same behavior I was seeing on the Denon X2300W. The Onkyo dual HDMI output works fine with the Epson HC4000 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma. I can run both together and singly. So it seems the issue was more with the Denon than the Ruipro Hybrid cable...and perhaps was confined to my particular unit - who knows. 

However my issues are not completely solved with the new Onkyo because in dual HDMI output it will only send out 1080p signals which means it defaults to the lowest common denominator. To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to _Main Output_ only. *sigh*


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> I set up my new Onkyo TX-RZ830 over the weekend, it is not exhibiting the same behavior I was seeing on the Denon X2300W. The Onkyo dual HDMI output works fine with the Epson HC4000 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma. I can run both together and singly. So it seems the issue was more with the Denon than the Ruipro Hybrid cable...and perhaps was confined to my particular unit - who knows.
> 
> However my issues are not completely solved with the new Onkyo because in dual HDMI output it will only send out 1080p signals which means it defaults to the lowest common denominator. To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to _Main Output_ only. *sigh*



Thanks for reporting back. It does sound like it's a receiver issue in handling 4k signals concurrently. Can you get 4k from either output if the other one is disabled?


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to Main Output only. *sigh*
' _- not uncommon to have to toggle the HDMI Output of a Dual 'mirrored' Output AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B to ensure you have the best signal going to the 'active' display, ideally a button on the remote will allow you to toggle the Output!

If both Displays are 'active' the Source will always revert to 1080p.

A more expensive solution is to stick a device such as an HDFury Linker between the AVR and the non-4K/HDCP2.2 Display device and set the Linker to down convert 4K/HDCP2.2 to 1080p/HDCP1.4.

Joe

PS timelinex asks in Post 1024 about using the 20m RuiPro cables with a PS4 Pro - that combination works fine. There is also a questions about using a 20m plus a 12m RuiPro on the Input > Output of an AVR - again that will work though you could run into power starvation problems with some AVR/Display combinations, that is where the RuiPro Voltage inserter just ahead of the Display can be helpful.


----------



## Mr.G

Joe Fernand said:


> _'To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to Main Output only. *sigh*' _
> 
> - not uncommon to have to toggle the HDMI Output of a Dual 'mirrored' Output AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B to ensure you have the best signal going to the 'active' display, ideally a button on the remote will allow you to toggle the Output!
> 
> If both Displays are 'active' the Source will always revert to 1080p.
> 
> A more expensive solution is to stick a device such as an HDFury Linker between the AVR and the non-4K/HDCP2.2 Display device and set the Linker to down convert 4K/HDCP2.2 to 1080p/HDCP1.4.


Thanks Joe. It's just a minor irritation that has come about since I decided to upgrade my high speed HDMI cable to the Ruipro Hybrid. Previously I used the Denon X2300W AVR which had no problem outputting 4K to the Epson HC4000 and 1080p to the (2010) Panasonic plasma at the same time. Both of those cables were high speed HDMI. The 45 foot Blue Jeans cable had no difficulty with the Epson faux 4K since the projector chipset max is 10.2 Gbps. Once I introduced the Ruipro all that changed, that's already documented in this thread. My next projector purchase will have the full 18.2 Gbps chipset so I was just planning for the future. My wife says I tinker too much.


----------



## Archaea

paying $120+ for a HDMI cable upsets my delicate sensibilities. (especially before the HDMI 2.1 standard is certified - meaning I'll probably have to buy another cable in a couple years)

I need a 40' HDMI cable for a Epson 5040UB projector I just bought.

My current cable won't support 4K.

Any significant chance these cheaper cables would work - or is buying them and then returning them a sure thing/waste of time?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DZH49D2/ref=emc_b_5_t?th=1
or
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DWTD5NG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1ZPLV4Z7LTQ49&th=1


If the sentiment is that's a waste of time, then I think I'll try one of those Monoprice Active Sync cables for $60 range. (I've enjoyed my monoprice products in the past). I see a few pages back someone met success at 4K with a 60' Monoprice Active Sync cable.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...7611&cjevent=9c64bf70567e11e980a5006b0a240613
Amazon has the Monoprice cables. I'd like to order one tonight - hopefully with a bit of sound advice.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Archaea said:


> paying $120+ for a HDMI cable upsets my delicate sensibilities. (especially before the HDMI 2.1 standard is certified - meaning I'll probably have to buy another cable in a couple years)
> 
> I need a 40' HDMI cable for a Epson 5040UB projector I just bought.
> 
> My current cable won't support 4K.
> 
> Any significant chance these cheaper cables would work - or is buying them and then returning them a sure thing/waste of time?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DZH49D2/ref=emc_b_5_t?th=1
> or
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DWTD5NG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1ZPLV4Z7LTQ49&th=1
> 
> 
> If the sentiment is that's a waste of time, then I think I'll try one of those Monoprice Active Sync cables for $60 range. (I've enjoyed my monoprice products in the past). I see a few pages back someone met success at 4K with a 60' Monoprice Active Sync cable.
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...7611&cjevent=9c64bf70567e11e980a5006b0a240613
> Amazon has the Monoprice cables. I'd like to order one tonight - hopefully with a bit of sound advice.



I agree about the cost but that may be what we have to put up with as video standards still outpace connection standards. Technically speaking, HDMI 2.1 has been certified as a standard. As far as certification goes for cables, nobody, at least not by an ATC (QR label) will certify active cables, whether they be copper-based or fiber/hybrid fiber. Some mfrs are submitting their connectors for compliance testing but nobody that I am aware of is submitting the complete cable, yet. There are prototype complete cables that were on display at CES but nothing yet for the consumer. Reliable cable distance and power consumption are still problematic. My guess is that hybrid fiber cables will be what is needed for 4k HDR at long distances (>25'). Ruipro cables get very good reviews here on AVS. Although they are a bit pricey.



The nice thing about a hybrid fiber (glass) cable, as opposed to just a fiber cable, is that the copper wiring is used for ARC (or eventually eARC), HDCP, and other communication needs which frees up bandwidth on the fiber end for video (18Gbps now and 48Gbps later on).


No cable is going to be future proof. Hybrid fiber is probably your best long term bet now. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof. At 40', all you can do is try. You may get lucky. And with the use of a conduit, replacing the cable will be easy.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'paying $120+ for a HDMI cable upsets my delicate sensibilities' _- the cost of 'long' and reliable HDMI cables has not altered that much since the early days of HDMI, it has always been a struggle to get a reliable connection once you go out past 8m with the highest bandwidth signals.

_'(especially before the HDMI 2.1 standard is certified - meaning I'll probably have to buy another cable in a couple years)'_ - just to be clear HDMI Version Numbers are not relevant to cable Certification, for copper HDMI the certification programme covers Standard, High Speed and Ultra High Speed.

Our RuiPro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cables have recently passed the eARC compliance tests as laid out by Simplay Labs using its new SL-870 Protocol Analyzer.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> _'paying $120+ for a HDMI cable upsets my delicate sensibilities' _- the cost of 'long' and reliable HDMI cables has not altered that much since the early days of HDMI, it has always been a struggle to get a reliable connection once you go out past 8m with the highest bandwidth signals.
> 
> _'(especially before the HDMI 2.1 standard is certified - meaning I'll probably have to buy another cable in a couple years)'_ - just to be clear HDMI Version Numbers are not relevant to cable Certification, for copper HDMI the certification programme covers Standard, High Speed and Ultra High Speed.
> 
> Our RuiPro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cables have recently passed the eARC compliance tests as laid out by Simplay Labs using its new SL-870 Protocol Analyzer.
> 
> Joe



I might add that Simplay Labs is an ATC so they follow the standardized testing procedures designed and implemented by HDMI.org. However, active cables can not get the Certificate of Compliance, which is represented by the QR label, so the consumer has no idea on how Ruipro validates their claims for HDMI 2.0b, and beyond, compliance. In addition to the SL-870 eARC CTS Protocol Analyzer, they also use SL-8800 Protocol Analyzer for HDCP 2.2/2.3 and the SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL Audio and Video Generator (AVG).


----------



## thetman

Otto Pylot said:


> Great! Let us know.


happy to report the Ruipro 40ft. has been working great. still too bad I had to replace the pricey Celerity because of an HDMI end connector. Hopefully this cable will last longer without issues. As we all know- these cables aren't cheap.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thetman said:


> happy to report the Ruipro 40ft. has been working great. still too bad I had to replace the pricey Celerity because of an HDMI end connector. Hopefully this cable will last longer without issues. As we all know- these cables aren't cheap.



Excellent! They are definitely expensive but when you think about the miniature electronics crammed into the sink/source end, R&D, testing, ad naseum the pricing makes sense, sort of.


----------



## raidflex

I am looking for a 25-30ft passive cable for under $40 that can handle 18Gbps if one exists. I might be able to get away with a 20ft, but not sure if it will reach. This is so I can connect my gaming PC in an adjacent room to my HT system. Any recommendations?


----------



## TrendSetterX

raidflex said:


> I am looking for a 25-30ft passive cable for under $40 that can handle 18Gbps if one exists. I might be able to get away with a 20ft, but not sure if it will reach. This is so I can connect my gaming PC in an adjacent room to my HT system. Any recommendations?


20-feet is the max you should trust passive with any confidence. Otherwise you might look into AV ProEdge’s booster product.


----------



## raidflex

TrendSetterX said:


> 20-feet is the max you should trust passive with any confidence. Otherwise you might look into AV ProEdge’s booster product.


I figured 20ft was pushing it with passive cable, is there a particular cable you recommend at 20ft?


----------



## Otto Pylot

raidflex said:


> I figured 20ft was pushing it with passive cable, is there a particular cable you recommend at 20ft?



25' is the maximum certifiable distance for passive, copper-based cables. If your run is an easy 20' (gentle bend radius) then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge is about the best you can do and should work. The cable will come with a QR label for authenticity and is not mfr specific. Any cable mfr can submit their cables to an ATC for certification. Keep in mind that no cable is guaranteed 100% to work in any given setup but starting with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable is a good place to start. I've used BJC Premium cables in the past and had zero issues with 4k HDR.


----------



## Archaea

This Spectra 7 Chipset active HDMI cable from monoprice worked for me at 40' for 4K with HDR (Source: Denon X7200WA and Display: Epson 5040UB):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWQMV1O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
_Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 40 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 26AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2 - DynamicView_
It's available at monoprice directly, cheaper depending on your shipping:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14134

This one, this one, and this one did not: (only 1080P, one of these 50' only worked at 720p  )
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009K4J8RS/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SI1JFRM/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FX867JC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

Archaea said:


> This Spectra 7 Chipset active HDMI cable from monoprice worked for me at 40' for 4K with HDR (Source: Denon X7200WA and Display: Epson 5040UB):
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWQMV1O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> _Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 40 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 26AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2 - DynamicView_
> It's available at monoprice directly, cheaper depending on your shipping:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14134
> 
> This one, this one, and this one did not: (only 1080P, one of these 50' only worked at 720p  )
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009K4J8RS/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SI1JFRM/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FX867JC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1



The cables you listed that didn't work is not surprising because they are all passive cables and well over the posters 20' need. An active cable with the newest Spectra 7 Chipsets (used to be Redmere) should work fine as you mentioned. They're not certified but certification is not offered for active cables. An active cable for a 20' run might be an overkill but if the price is right, it certainly can't hurt. If the cable is stiff just be mindful of bend radius. It's always best to use a single cable, source to sink, without any adapters or extenders so the active cable would be a good alternative.


----------



## xp0z3d

I need a suggestion for HDMI cable. Run would be 25 feet, equipment is Apple TV 4K, Nvidia shield, Denon x2400h, Projector would be either Benq tk800m or HT3550, ceiling install. I already have a conduit in ceiling for cable. So far I have seen for 4k HDR, cables costing around $150 which are I think hybrid fibre cables, and then some are listed around


----------



## Mike_WI

xp0z3d said:


> I need a suggestion for HDMI cable. Run would be 25 feet, equipment is Apple TV 4K, Nvidia shield, Denon x2400h, Projector would be either Benq tk800m or HT3550, ceiling install. I already have a conduit in ceiling for cable. So far I have seen for 4k HDR, cables costing around $150 which are I think hybrid fibre cables, and then some are listed around


----------



## Otto Pylot

xp0z3d said:


> I need a suggestion for HDMI cable. Run would be 25 feet, equipment is Apple TV 4K, Nvidia shield, Denon x2400h, Projector would be either Benq tk800m or HT3550, ceiling install. I already have a conduit in ceiling for cable. So far I have seen for 4k HDR, cables costing around $150 which are I think hybrid fibre cables, and then some are listed around


----------



## xp0z3d

Mike_WI said:


> This is what I am currently using
> Monoprice Cabarnet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 30 ft
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cabernet-Ultra-Active-Speed/dp/B015121JHY
> 
> $29 at Amazon now
> There likely are newer/better chipsets.
> 
> Remember $29 or $40 that doesn't work isn't helpful.
> 
> 
> Mike


Some reviews are bad saying it does not do 4:4:4, does that make any difference?



Otto Pylot said:


> Reliable, passive copper cable at 25' max for 4k HDR will be trial and error. Your choices would be:
> 
> 
> 1. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label). Certified by an ATC.
> 
> 2. An active High Speed HDMI cable. Look for one that lists the Spectra 7 chipsets in the source/sink ends.
> 
> 3. A hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro), but at 10m it's going to be expensive. Probably your best long term (what ever that means) solution for HDMI 2.0b (so far).
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you have a conduit installed will make the whole process so much easier. Hopefully you installed a pull string as well. It just makes the cable pull easier if you want to/need to have another cable for future use. Be mindful of bend radius. It's always best to have a little slack at the HDMI inputs to minimize stress on the input. 25' is the maximum allowable distance for certification of passive copper cables by an ATC. Active cables can not be certified, at least by an ATC. The best connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no adapters or extenders in between.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the cables above can be found on Monoprice. $40 for cables 1 or 2 might be challenging but you may find a sale.





How about this one guys?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06W9DJQX9/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B016KOPSHE?th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

xp0z3d said:


> Some reviews are bad saying it does not do 4:4:4, does that make any difference?
> 
> How about this one guys?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06W9DJQX9/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B016KOPSHE?th=1



A Premium High Speed HDMI cable is certified to meet ALL HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. 4:4:4 is uncompressed chroma which provides the best color imaging as opposed to 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, which will sacrifice a little color clarity for lower data rate due to compression. That's why most sources (blu-ray, DVD, streaming, UHD, etc) are 4:2:0. The problem isn't so much the cable it's the sink (tv). Most tv's can't decode 4:4:4 anyway, unless the HDMI input is set to PC mode, so it's really not a big deal. Distance is your biggest issue. 25' is the maximum certifiable distance so 4k HDR, via a copper only cable, is pushing it.


----------



## raidflex

Archaea said:


> This Spectra 7 Chipset active HDMI cable from monoprice worked for me at 40' for 4K with HDR (Source: Denon X7200WA and Display: Epson 5040UB):
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWQMV1O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> _Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 40 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 26AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2 - DynamicView_
> It's available at monoprice directly, cheaper depending on your shipping:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14134
> 
> This one, this one, and this one did not: (only 1080P, one of these 50' only worked at 720p  )
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009K4J8RS/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SI1JFRM/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FX867JC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I am going to try the 25ft Monoprice passive cable first, if that does not work then this is a good alternative. Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

raidflex said:


> I am going to try the 25ft Monoprice passive cable first, if that does not work then this is a good alternative. Thanks.



As long as the 25' passive cable is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, it should work. But you are at the maximum distance so make sure you have a little play at the HDMI input so that you don't stress the input. Otherwise, and active cable may be your best bet for that distance.


----------



## raidflex

Otto Pylot said:


> As long as the 25' passive cable is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, it should work. But you are at the maximum distance so make sure you have a little play at the HDMI input so that you don't stress the input. Otherwise, and active cable may be your best bet for that distance.


This is the one I bought.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X3QDY4M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Otto Pylot

raidflex said:


> This is the one I bought.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X3QDY4M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



That cable should work. However, even though the product description says Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable make sure it comes with a QR label for authenticity. If not, there is no guarantee that the cable has actually been certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). The QR label is your assurance that the cable is as advertised and is required by HDMI.org to indicate that the cable actually went thru the certification program designed and implemented by HDMI.org.


----------



## xp0z3d

Otto Pylot said:


> A Premium High Speed HDMI cable is certified to meet ALL HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. 4:4:4 is uncompressed chroma which provides the best color imaging as opposed to 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, which will sacrifice a little color clarity for lower data rate due to compression. That's why most sources (blu-ray, DVD, streaming, UHD, etc) are 4:2:0. The problem isn't so much the cable it's the sink (tv). Most tv's can't decode 4:4:4 anyway, unless the HDMI input is set to PC mode, so it's really not a big deal. Distance is your biggest issue. 25' is the maximum certifiable distance so 4k HDR, via a copper only cable, is pushing it.


Thanks for the explanation! Will start with passive and if it does not work then will have to bite and get a fiber one.



raidflex said:


> I am going to try the 25ft Monoprice passive cable first, if that does not work then this is a good alternative. Thanks.





raidflex said:


> This is the one I bought.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X3QDY4M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


This is the one I am getting as well. I already own a 15 feet of this cable for a 4k tv and so far has worked well.

How can I test a hdmi to make sure it does everything it says? I have a Nvidia shield, apple tv 4k, sony 4k hdr tv and hdr projector.


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## Otto Pylot

xp0z3d said:


> How can I test a hdmi to make sure it does everything it says? I have a Nvidia shield, apple tv 4k, sony 4k hdr tv and hdr projector.



Without sophisticated testing equipment you can't. The only thing you can do is view material (SDR/HDR) from various sources and look for sparkles, drop outs, etc. That's one of the reasons for using Premium High Speed HDMI cables. At least you know the cable was tested following HDMI.org's protocols. There are other factors involved in a successful cable run so all you can do is try.


----------



## Joe Fernand

As above Test, Test, Test preferably before you 'install' the cable - though ideally unroll it and then try out each of your Source devices for an extended session to ensure there are no issues.

Joe


----------



## Mr.G

Mr.G said:


> I set up my new Onkyo TX-RZ830 over the weekend, it is not exhibiting the same behavior I was seeing on the Denon X2300W. The Onkyo dual HDMI output works fine with the Epson HC4000 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma. I can run both together and singly. So it seems the issue was more with the Denon than the Ruipro Hybrid cable...and perhaps was confined to my particular unit - who knows.
> 
> *However my issues are not completely solved with the new Onkyo because in dual HDMI output it will only send out 1080p signals which means it defaults to the lowest common denominator. To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to Main Output only. *sigh**


My work-around to this minor issue was to purchase an inexpensive remote controlled electric power plug. Plugged the 1080p Panasonic plasma into the power plug and turned off the electricity with the remote. Now even with the Onkyo set to MAIN + SUB it only sees the Epson HC4000 4K projector and passes the full UHD signal. Whenever I need to use the Panasonic as a monitor I just turn on the power with the remote. Continued tinkering as my wife would say.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Mr.G said:


> I set up my new Onkyo TX-RZ830 over the weekend, it is not exhibiting the same behavior I was seeing on the Denon X2300W. The Onkyo dual HDMI output works fine with the Epson HC4000 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma. I can run both together and singly. So it seems the issue was more with the Denon than the Ruipro Hybrid cable...and perhaps was confined to my particular unit - who knows.
> 
> *However my issues are not completely solved with the new Onkyo because in dual HDMI output it will only send out 1080p signals which means it defaults to the lowest common denominator. To get the Onkyo to pass-through 4K I have to access the menu and change the setting to Main Output only. *sigh**


Hey there, I am working through a similar problem here, how did you discover that in Dual HDMI Output (I am assuming MAIN and SUB?) forced the Onkyo into 1080p mode?

I have a RZ3100 connected to a LG 65C8 and although the old HDMI cable to the TV is likely 'one' of my problems, I did not see or was aware that a Dual HDMI out from the Onkyo could be a problem.

Please elaborate or if you have pages references in the manuals that would be great!


----------



## Al Sherwood

Otto Pylot said:


> As long as the 25' passive cable is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, it should work. But you are at the maximum distance so make sure you have a little play at the HDMI input so that you don't stress the input. Otherwise, and active cable may be your best bet for that distance.





raidflex said:


> This is the one I bought.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X3QDY4M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


See my last post just above, but I too have that 25' Monoprice cable on the way for connection between the RZ3100 and the LG 65C8 OLED.

I need to try this option before a much more expensive Active HDMI cable like: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566

For me in Canada the passive is $33 for 25' as opposed to well over $200 for the active 30' cable. I read about this cable in another thread.

raidflex, please keep us posted as to your results.


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## Otto Pylot

Al Sherwood said:


> See my last post just above, but I too have that 25' Monoprice cable on the way for connection between the RZ3100 and the LG 65C8 OLED.
> 
> I need to try this option before a much more expensive Active HDMI cable like: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566
> 
> For me in Canada the passive is $33 for 25' as opposed to well over $200 for the active 30' cable. I read about this cable in another thread.
> 
> raidflex, please keep us posted as to your results.



The Slim-Run cable you link to is very similar to the Ruipro Ultra-Slim Active HDMI Optical cable (hybrid fiber). The difference is the Monoprice cable is a polymer (plastic) optical cable core, and the Ruipro is glass optical core with copper wiring surrounding the core for the less bandwidth demanding ARC, HDCP, and EDID communications. Hence the term hybrid. No doubt the Monoprice are good cables but you may be able to get away with a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable at considerably less cost. Just be mindful of bend radius and stress on the HDMI inputs.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Otto Pylot said:


> The Slim-Run cable you link to is very similar to the Ruipro Ultra-Slim Active HDMI Optical cable (hybrid fiber). The difference is the Monoprice cable is a polymer (plastic) optical cable core, and the Ruipro is glass optical core with copper wiring surrounding the core for the less bandwidth demanding ARC, HDCP, and EDID communications. Hence the term hybrid. No doubt the Monoprice are good cables but you may be able to get away with a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable at considerably less cost. Just be mindful of bend radius and stress on the HDMI inputs.


Thanks for this, as mentioned if the passive HDMI cable doesn't work then I will looking for a solution, Ruipro is on my list now, just need to locate a suitable source, either in Canada or that ships to Canada.


----------



## helvetica bold

I purchased the 6’ Monoprice Certified Ultra Slim series and there was bad flickering when connected to my Xbox One X. If it’s certified how can it not work? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> I purchased the 6’ Monoprice Certified Ultra Slim series and there was bad flickering when connected to my Xbox One X. If it’s certified how can it not work?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Was it an active cable? If so, then it was not certified by an ATC and should not, or did not come with a QR label of authenticity. Do you have a link to the actual cable you purchased? 



Certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with any given setup. Certification just means that it was tested, and passed to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications using standardized testing protocols designed and implemented by HDMI.org. If it was tested by an ATC and passed, it should have come with the QR label. There is more to a successful cable run than just the data pipe. At 6', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) should work just fine for 4k HDR. I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables from BJC before with zero issues. An active cable is just meant to propagate the signal at longer distances (usually beyond 20') without any signal loss or degradation. If the cable was passive, then it could be the wire gauge (hence Ultra Slim) which can affect 4k HDR etc. Or it was just a bad cable, which can happen to anybody.


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## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> Was it an active cable? If so, then it was not certified by an ATC and should not, or did not come with a QR label of authenticity. Do you have a link to the actual cable you purchased?
> 
> 
> 
> Certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with any given setup. Certification just means that it was tested, and passed to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications using standardized testing protocols designed and implemented by HDMI.org. If it was tested by an ATC and passed, it should have come with the QR label. There is more to a successful cable run than just the data pipe. At 6', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) should work just fine for 4k HDR. I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables from BJC before with zero issues. An active cable is just meant to propagate the signal at longer distances (usually beyond 20') without any signal loss or degradation. If the cable was passive, then it could be the wire gauge (hence Ultra Slim) which can affect 4k HDR etc. Or it was just a bad cable, which can happen to anybody.




Thanks for the detailed write up!  It’s a passive cable with a QR code. I’ll give it another go before I send it back. 

This is it. 

Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 2 Feet - Black| Certified Premium, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 36AWG, YUV, 4:4:4 - Ultra Slim Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074FG2LDP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qzKVCbK5WFMYN


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Thanks for the detailed write up!  It’s a passive cable with a QR code. I’ll give it another go before I send it back.
> 
> This is it.
> 
> Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 2 Feet - Black| Certified Premium, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 36AWG, YUV, 4:4:4 - Ultra Slim Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074FG2LDP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qzKVCbK5WFMYN
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


At 2' those cables should have worked but as I said, there are no 100% guarantees. 36AWG is a really small wire gauge so I'd check to make sure that the bend radius is small and there is no strain on the HDMI input. Are both your source and sink using the same HDMI hardware versions? HDMI is backwards compatible only to the extent that the cable can only transmit the protocols that are in-common. IOW, an HDMI 2.0 source connecting to an HDMI 1.4 sink will only be able to successfully transmit and utilize the HDMI 1.4 protocol sets. I would also check the settings on your Xbox One X.


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## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> At 2' those cables should have worked but as I said, there are no 100% guarantees. 36AWG is a really small wire gauge so I'd check to make sure that the bend radius is small and there is no strain on the HDMI input. Are both your source and sink using the same HDMI hardware versions? HDMI is backwards compatible only to the extent that the cable can only transmit the protocols that are in-common. IOW, an HDMI 2.0 source connecting to an HDMI 1.4 sink will only be able to successfully transmit and utilize the HDMI 1.4 protocol sets. I would also check the settings on your Xbox One X.




I got the 6’ version. My new LG C9 has HDMI 2.1 and my Xbox One X has 2.0b so maybe it’s the new HDMI 2.1? I have to test it again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> I got the 6’ version. My new LG C9 has HDMI 2.1 and my Xbox One X has 2.0b so maybe it’s the new HDMI 2.1? I have to test it again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


HDMI 2.1 is really kind of meaningless at this point in time unless you are a gamer, and even then it will be limited. The LG should be able to use the HDMI 2.0b protocols that the Xbox One X sends so it could be a setting somewhere that needs to be checked and set correctly. Bandwidth shouldn't be a problem because 18Gbps is still the standard which the Xbox One X should be able to transmit adequately.


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## TrendSetterX

helvetica bold said:


> My new LG C9 has HDMI 2.1.


HDMI 2.1 is a list of capabilities that a device may choose to implement (but doesn’t have to). It’s incorrect to say a device is “HDMI 2.1” because, as Otto states, it’s meaningless. 

Specifically, with respect to HDMI 2.1 features, your C9 has EARC, 4K120+HDR capable ports, and support for VRR and ALLM. These are the features you need to pay attention to when you look for matching source (Blu-ray, streaming box, etc) and/or passthrough (Audio/Video receiver, etc) devices.

Don’t get caught up in HDMI 2.1 marketing hype as it will lead you astray - you must focus on the specific 2.1 feature(s) that are necessary or important for you and not any general “2.1” moniker.


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## Otto Pylot

+1. That's why I would like to see the new devices coming out state which options of HDMI 2.1 are implemented if they claim HDMI 2.1 capability, and not just say HDMI 2.1. Matching HDMI capabilities across your devices is going to become even more critical as the smoke and mirror marketeers shift into high gear. HDMI cables are going to muddy the waters even further. Caveat emptor.


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## Mr.G

Al Sherwood said:


> Hey there, I am working through a similar problem here, how did you discover that in Dual HDMI Output (I am assuming MAIN and SUB?) forced the Onkyo into 1080p mode?
> 
> I have a RZ3100 connected to a LG 65C8 and although the old HDMI cable to the TV is likely 'one' of my problems, I did not see or was aware that a Dual HDMI out from the Onkyo could be a problem.
> 
> Please elaborate or if you have pages references in the manuals that would be great!


The problem was just specific to my setup. When I connected the 15m Ruipro Hybrid cable to the 4K Epson projector and a 6 foot Monoprice certified high speed HDMI cable to the 1080p Panasonic plasma the Onkyo TX-RZ830 would only allow 1080p simultaneously when set to MAIN + SUB. I discovered this while playing a 4K Blu-ray movie, the projector indicated it was only getting 1080p. By pressing the 'information' button on the Onkyo remote it confirmed that it was outputting 1080p. When I changed the Onkyo setting to MAIN the full 4K UHD passed through to the Epson projector. If I changed the Onkyo setting back to MAIN + SUB it only output 1080p again. My makeshift solution was to shut off power to the Panasonic by using a remote controlled electric plug. Now with the Onkyo set to MAIN + SUB it no longer detected the Panasonic and output a 4K UHD signal. When I need to use the Panasonic again (which is infrequent) I power it on with the plug remote. I very much doubt this is the issue you are having.


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## Al Sherwood

Mr.G said:


> The problem was just specific to my setup. When I connected the 15m Ruipro Hybrid cable to the 4K Epson projector and a 6 foot Monoprice certified high speed HDMI cable to the 1080p Panasonic plasma the Onkyo TX-RZ830 would only allow 1080p simultaneously when set to MAIN + SUB. I discovered this while playing a 4K Blu-ray movie, the projector indicated it was only getting 1080p. By pressing the 'information' button on the Onkyo remote it confirmed that it was outputting 1080p. When I changed the Onkyo setting to MAIN the full 4K UHD passed through to the Epson projector. If I changed the Onkyo setting back to MAIN + SUB it only output 1080p again. My makeshift solution was to shut off power to the Panasonic by using a remote controlled electric plug. Now with the Onkyo set to MAIN + SUB it no longer detected the Panasonic and output a 4K UHD signal. When I need to use the Panasonic again (which is infrequent) I power it on with the plug remote. I very much doubt this is the issue you are having.


Thanks for the full details, much easier to understand and compare to what I saw while testing. This *'was'* one of the problems I ran into early on with my 4K implementation, and why I was asking about reference to it in the manual.

Before I got the LG OLED all of my display devices were 1080p displays, the Samsung plasma, the BenQ W9000 and the ASUS 25" LCD monitor. What I did was connect the BenQ or Samsung to the AVR on MAIN, the ASUS LCD Monitor on SUB and set the AVR to MAIN+SUB, there were never any issues because all connected displays could do the full 1080p, the problem came up when I connected the 4K LG OLED to MAIN with the ASUS 1080p monitor on SUB (I use it to do settings, firmware and pre-stage movies etc.),

So when I powered up the Oppo 4K player and tried to change the video output of the player it complained that one of my display devices was not capable of 4K... that ASUS Monitor was holding things up, so for now it is disconnected, one impediment out of the way, however, even though the only display device connected to the AVR is 4K the HDMI cable running to it is old and long and definitely not rated for 4K, which I believe is a problem, so I have a new premium cable on order.


----------



## Mr.G

Al Sherwood said:


> Thanks for the full details, much easier to understand and compare to what I saw while testing. This *'was'* one of the problems I ran into early on with my 4K implementation, and why I was asking about reference to it in the manual.
> 
> Before I got the LG OLED all of my display devices were 1080p displays, the Samsung plasma, the BenQ W9000 and the ASUS 25" LCD monitor. What I did was connect the BenQ or Samsung to the AVR on MAIN, the ASUS LCD Monitor on SUB and set the AVR to MAIN+SUB, there were never any issues because all connected displays could do the full 1080p, the problem came up when I connected the 4K LG OLED to MAIN with the ASUS 1080p monitor on SUB (I use it to do settings, firmware and pre-stage movies etc.),
> 
> So when I powered up the Oppo 4K player and tried to change the video output of the player it complained that one of my display devices was not capable of 4K... that ASUS Monitor was holding things up, so for now it is disconnected, one impediment out of the way, however, even though the only display device connected to the AVR is 4K the HDMI cable running to it is old and long and definitely not rated for 4K, which I believe is a problem, so I have a new premium cable on order.


I stand corrected, I guess our problems were similar. 

Hopefully your new premium cable solves your problem.


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## raidflex

Al Sherwood said:


> See my last post just above, but I too have that 25' Monoprice cable on the way for connection between the RZ3100 and the LG 65C8 OLED.
> 
> I need to try this option before a much more expensive Active HDMI cable like: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21566
> 
> For me in Canada the passive is $33 for 25' as opposed to well over $200 for the active 30' cable. I read about this cable in another thread.
> 
> raidflex, please keep us posted as to your results.


Initial testing seems to be good. I was able to push 4k RGB and also YCC 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12bit all of these at 60Hz. I did some gaming for a couple of hours and no issues. The only real problem is 25ft is really too short, it reaches but I have no slack and I cant hide the cable as much as I would like to. I could go 30ft buy concerned I may have issues.

Anything I need to know about active cables? I may go that route to get a 40ft cable so I can route the cable under the floor since I have access in the basement, instead of trying to hide it in the room.


----------



## Al Sherwood

raidflex said:


> Initial testing seems to be good. I was able to push 4k RGB and also YCC 4:4:4 8bit or 4:2:2 12bit all of these at 60Hz. I did some gaming for a couple of hours and no issues. The only real problem is 25ft is really too short, it reaches but I have no slack and I cant hide the cable as much as I would like to. I could go 30ft buy concerned I may have issues.
> 
> Anything I need to know about active cables? I may go that route to get a 40ft cable so I can route the cable under the floor since I have access in the basement, instead of trying to hide it in the room.


That is promising, I have fingers crossed the 25' gives me the slack that you wished you had  , when measured 20' would reach but it was tight. (no tolerance for errors in measuring...).

FWIW I also just ordered an active cable at 25', the Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, I was ordering some other stuff and somehow it ended up in my cart!? 

I have no experience or expertise with active or hybrid cables, the Monoprice piece looks like it has the credentials, from what I understand Ruipro makes some great stuff too but compared to the Monoprice is about 3 times as much. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...7611&cjevent=68f807d2652f11e9822c01cd0a1c0e0e

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0759CXK4H/ref=twister_B06XK7BPYW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I am in Canada so there is little point in me quoting any prices.


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## Wyn Lim

Hello guys, new here!! I have a denon x3500 and optoma uhd51a connected through a comprehensive pro av/it certified 18 gb/s 35 ft bought from b&h. Sony ubp x700 with same brand 3 ft to denon. 35 ft is an active cable. My problem usually is that i get an “HDMI no signal” and a refrshing sources mainly on 4k HDR movies usually. Would buying the RuiPro solve this?? I moved the input from bluray to the aux2 as advised by denon as they say it’s a clocking issue. As i troubleshoot it, sony player to the projector, no hiccups, so its not the cable. Is this usually a problem with longer than 25 ft runs??? Thanks for your input guys!!


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## Wyn Lim

Or is it a problem from denon avrs?? I have tried multiple 4k players ranging from sony ubp x700, x800, lg ubk90 and samsung. All had the “circle of refresh” that optoma projectors do. Sometimes “HDMI 1 no signal”. I tried HdMI 2 with same results.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Wyn Lim said:


> Or is it a problem from denon avrs?? I have tried multiple 4k players ranging from sony ubp x700, x800, lg ubk90 and samsung. All had the “circle of refresh” that optoma projectors do. Sometimes “HDMI 1 no signal”. I tried HdMI 2 with same results.






Wyn Lim said:


> Hello guys, new here!! I have a denon x3500 and optoma uhd51a connected through a comprehensive pro av/it certified 18 gb/s 35 ft bought from b&h. Sony ubp x700 with same brand 3 ft to denon. 35 ft is an active cable. My problem usually is that i get an “HDMI no signal” and a refrshing sources mainly on 4k HDR movies usually. Would buying the RuiPro solve this?? I moved the input from bluray to the aux2 as advised by denon as they say it’s a clocking issue. As i troubleshoot it, sony player to the projector, no hiccups, so its not the cable. Is this usually a problem with longer than 25 ft runs??? Thanks for your input guys!!


1. Please make sure you work through these steps from Denon to make sure you’re setup properly: https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answ...source-devices-and-4k-avr/tv-connections,-hdr
2. There is no such thing as a certified HDMI connection over 35-feet. Anything claiming as such is just throwing marketing jargon at you.
3. Depending on the age of your active cable, it could be the previous generation of “active” technology which won’t support the latest needs.
4. Yes, there’s a good chance that the RUIPRO will solve your problems but you should lay it out and connect it to make sure before you put it in the walls/ceiling.


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## Al Sherwood

Wyn Lim said:


> Or is it a problem from denon avrs?? I have tried multiple 4k players ranging from sony ubp x700, x800, lg ubk90 and samsung. All had the “circle of refresh” that optoma projectors do. Sometimes “HDMI 1 no signal”. I tried HdMI 2 with same results.


I would also suggest that you eliminate the Denon by simply plugging your cable into the player and then directly to the display.

I plan on trying a Monoprice 25' DynamicView active cable today from my AVR to the TV.


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## Wyn Lim

Hello mr sherwood, trendsetter. I have done all those mentioned. The comprehensive pro cable “certified” from b&h are third party tested they said. I bought those september last year 2018. After emailing them to honor their warranty, they are sending me a new one. Hoping it may have a new chipset. I did test the cable from source, sony ubp x700, straight to the optoma. And 4k works flawlessly. I just do hdmi audio out to the denon. It’s just a little inconvenience having to disconnect from the player back to the avr for other sources such as playstation 3 and cable box. A laziness on my part, hehe. 
With that, i do knw it’s not the cable. All firmware is updated on the optoma and denon and sony.


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## Wyn Lim

So im hoping the new active cable will have a new chipset, maybe to solve the issue. If that doesnt work, ill just suck it up and switch the cords/inputs for 4k UHD movie watching. The hiccups dont happen on 1080p movies. Last resort, i will be buying the ruipro if it goes on sale.


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## Otto Pylot

Wyn Lim said:


> Hello guys, new here!! I have a denon x3500 and optoma uhd51a connected through a comprehensive pro av/it certified 18 gb/s 35 ft bought from b&h. Sony ubp x700 with same brand 3 ft to denon. 35 ft is an active cable. My problem usually is that i get an “HDMI no signal” and a refrshing sources mainly on 4k HDR movies usually. Would buying the RuiPro solve this?? I moved the input from bluray to the aux2 as advised by denon as they say it’s a clocking issue. As i troubleshoot it, sony player to the projector, no hiccups, so its not the cable. Is this usually a problem with longer than 25 ft runs??? Thanks for your input guys!!


 @TrendSetterX basically covered it but to drive the point home, regardless of what the cable mfr indicates on their packaging, only passive HDMI cables can be certified and 25' is the maximum length. A certified cable will come with a QR label for authenticity. Anything else, is just marketing b.s. Third party tested means absolutely nothing unless you know who the "third party" is and how the cables were tested. 



An active copper-based cable may work for 4k HDR but you need to make sure that the active cable is using the latest Spectra 7 chipsets (used to Redmere).


Bottom line, if you want to reliably push 4k HDR over 25' you might have to go with a hybrid fiber cable and not just a copper-only cable. It's always nice to give yourself a little extra slack in the cable to keep the bend radius as gentle as possible (which is very easy to do with the Ruipro cables) and reduce the strain on the HDMI input. 25' and under, Premium High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label (certification proof that the cable was tested by an ATC) for copper-only cables. Over 25', an active hybrid fiber cable would probably be your best bet. Just keep in mind that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work in any given setup because there are other factors that come into play for a successful cable run other than just the data pipe (cable).


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## Wyn Lim

I agree with all points given. I do knw it’s all marketing BS. Was hoping to hear that I dont have to buy a new cable. But what i wantes to hear was different from what i know. Huhuhu. Anybody experience the same here?? Anybody have any luck with 25 ft and longer pure copper cables with no hiccups??


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## Wyn Lim

This is the cord im using. 
https://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Certified-Speed-Cable-ProGrip/dp/B07BMBMXCJ
http://www.comprehensiveco.com/pro-av/it-certified-18g-4k-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-progrip-35ft-black-active.html


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## Al Sherwood

Wyn Lim said:


> I agree with all points given. I do knw it’s all marketing BS. Was hoping to hear that I dont have to buy a new cable. But what i wantes to hear was different from what i know. Huhuhu. Anybody experience the same here?? Anybody have any luck with 25 ft and longer pure copper cables with no hiccups??


I am still waiting for the passive cable I ordered, it is a Monoprice unit at 25' in length: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

As mentioned the active cable is a also Monoprice, DynamicView also 25' in length and feature the chipset mentioned by Otto Pylot (Features Spectra7® (formerly RedMere®) HT8181 Active Chipset Technology): https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131

I'll let you know!


----------



## Wyn Lim

Anybody here have experience with Install Bay brand?? Ruipro?? Do they do full 4K HDR from receiver with longer than 30 ft run?? I read that even with the right cable, 4k HDR is the culprit.


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## Al Sherwood

So the Monoprice DynamicView active HDMI cable (25 feet), seem to be stable and clean. Yeah!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Wyn Lim said:


> This is the cord im using.
> https://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Certified-Speed-Cable-ProGrip/dp/B07BMBMXCJ
> http://www.comprehensiveco.com/pro-...dmi-cable-with-progrip-35ft-black-active.html



Pure b.s. marketing. Almost any High Speed HDMI cable can handle 4k HDR at short lengths. Once you hit the 20' + length you can run into problems. It you want a cheap cable, you'll get what you pay for. That's not to say that if you pay a high price for a cable (Monster, AudioQuest comes to mind) that you'll get better performance. A copper cable is the problem for long lengths, active or passive. The Monoprice active cables are good so give them a try. If you go beyond 25' you should look into a hybrid fiber cable. I know this is repetitive but with 4k HDR at, and above 25', it's still trial and error. If you find a cable that works then you're good. If not, you may have to look at the more expensive options (hybrid fiber). However, if your run is in a conduit, swapping out the cables is easier and safer.


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## Wyn Lim

So far the cable is working if i connect player straight to the projector and hdmi audio to avr. 4k HDR works flawlessly. I hook it back for cable tv and it works fine. It also works fine for old blu ray movies. I guess the 18gb/s works if it’s a straight line. Maybe something to do with the extra loopholes for the signal to connect to.


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## Joe Fernand

_'Anybody here have experience with Ruipro?? Do they do full 4K HDR from receiver with longer than 30 ft run??'_ - RuiPro Hybrid Fibre will support all current 4K UHD signals up to 100m.

Joe


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## Wyn Lim

Hello Mr Joe. No hiccups, stutters??? Flawless???


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## farsider3000

Joe Fernand said:


> _'Anybody here have experience with Ruipro?? Do they do full 4K HDR from receiver with longer than 30 ft run??'_ - RuiPro Hybrid Fibre will support all current 4K UHD signals up to 100m.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



My ruipro 30 ft work perfectly with all my sources at 4K 60Hz HDR. My celebrity fiber 50ft fiber works perfectly from my Marantz AV 8805 to my projector.

I would not hesitate to purchase a ruipro over 30ft. They have an excellent reputation for reliability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## farsider3000

Wyn Lim said:


> Anybody here have experience with Install Bay brand?? Ruipro?? Do they do full 4K HDR from receiver with longer than 30 ft run?? I read that even with the right cable, 4k HDR is the culprit.




My ruipro 30 ft work perfectly with all my sources at 4K 60Hz HDR. My celebrity fiber 50ft fiber works perfectly from my Marantz AV 8805 to my projector.

I would not hesitate to purchase a ruipro over 30ft. They have an excellent reputation for reliability


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Mr.G

Al Sherwood said:


> So the Monoprice DynamicView active HDMI cable (25 feet), seem to be stable and clean. Yeah!


Nice to see. Happy viewing.


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## Otto Pylot

Wyn Lim said:


> So far the cable is working if i connect player straight to the projector and hdmi audio to avr. 4k HDR works flawlessly. I hook it back for cable tv and it works fine. It also works fine for old blu ray movies. I guess the 18gb/s works if it’s a straight line. Maybe something to do with the extra loopholes for the signal to connect to.



The bend radius on the Ruipro cables is excellent as long as it's not a very sharp 90 degree bend, which is true for any cable type. However, you can loop them a couple of times if the cable is a little too long with no issues whatsoever. I've done that with shorter versions as a test and they worked just fine, in addition to having the cables nicely tucked up and out of the way behind my equipment with zero strain on the HDMI inputs. No more unsightly rat's nest of cables.


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## Joe Fernand

Hello Wyn Lim

_'Hello Mr Joe. No hiccups, stutters??? Flawless???'_ - with around 1000 RuiPro cables now supplied to our UK and EU customers I would have a busy mail box if we were seeing stutters etc  I have two in my own TV system (Source to AVR 15m + AVR to Display 15m) and no issues.

Joe


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## Wyn Lim

Awesome news mr joe. Will definitely get one then.


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## Wyn Lim

Question guys, as far as picture quality, reliability, which one is better, the ruipro or hdmi over ethernet solutions??


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## Wyn Lim

I have heard some hdmi boards being fried. It may just be heresay.


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## jong1

Wyn Lim said:


> Question guys, as far as picture quality, reliability, which one is better, the ruipro or hdmi over ethernet solutions??


To answer the first part of your question, these solutions either work or they don't so, for a working cable/solution picture quality is identical.

On the 2nd part, RuiPro have a very good reputation for reliability, as you will read here. Most have worked flawlessly since install (in my case 18 months so far) You would need to look into the reliability of any particular HDMI over ethernet solution you were considering. Of course, individual cables/converters could vary and be faulty or fail.


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## Joe Fernand

Wyn Lim said:


> I have heard some hdmi boards being fried. It may just be heresay.


Image quality - with a 4K UHD signal all HDMI over CAT solutions have to use some form of image compression with the highest bandwidth signals, the various chip set/hardware manufacturers claim the compression to be visually lossless. There is no signal compression with the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables.

Interoperability - there is always a chance a particular combination of kit will be problematic, overall we see no more or less problems with 'over CAT' vs.RuiPro Hybrid Fibre solutions.

Reliability - again very few issues with either option (in terms of the kit we, TMF, supply and support). RuiPro have recently added a 'lifetime' warranty to the Hybrid Fibre cables.

Installation - always assume something will fail, get broken or become obsolete so plan you cable runs carefully whichever option you go with.

Joe

PS _'Fried HDMI Boards_' - I would put that claim down to a lack of knowledge on the subject.


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## TrendSetterX

Joe Fernand said:


> PS _'Fried HDMI Boards_' - I would put that claim down to a lack of knowledge on the subject.


Yep, likely someone terminated with the EZ-RJ45 ends, left some copper showing, and shorted some pins to power.


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## Otto Pylot

Wyn Lim said:


> I have heard some hdmi boards being fried. It may just be heresay.


Only if you terminate a copper-based cable yourself as TrendSetterX alludes to. The Ruipro cables are already terminated so they are just plug and play. The only other way an HDMI board can get fried is if you have a power surge coming down the cable. The cable itself can not damage the HDMI input unless you get a cheap one that wasn't properly terminated (TrendSetterX's comment).


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## filipp2442

Been reading through the thread, is this still the "best" cable to get under $80 for a 35 foot cable with 4k and HDR?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWQMUBU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


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## Al Sherwood

filipp2442 said:


> Been reading through the thread, is this still the "best" cable to get under $80 for a 35 foot cable with 4k and HDR?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWQMUBU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


I don't know about this cable being the 'best', but from first hand experience I can say that I just installed a 25' version of this exact cable and it is working flawlessly between my AVR and 4k TV, the Oppo connected through the AVR is supplying a solid 4K signal through to the TV.

I do know through a little research it uses the most recent of chipsets and support a full 18 Gbps.


----------



## squigly1

Need some advice please. Need about 35ft cable to run from Denon AVR to Epson 5040UB. Don't currently have any 4K sources. 4K STB and likely a Panasonic UB820 disc player soon. For cables and from what i understand from reading here the RUIPRO is likely the best choice though there is a similiar Monoprice option. RUIPRO is cheaper. Both are 3x more expensive than the Monoprice DynamicView Active. Can i get away with the DynamicView or bite the bullet and hit to the wallet and go RUIPRO?

Lastly, I found these on Amazon. Price seems to cheap for this to be good. Thoughts?

Thanks


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## Otto Pylot

squigly1 said:


> Need some advice please. Need about 35ft cable to run from Denon AVR to Epson 5040UB. Don't currently have any 4K sources. 4K STB and likely a Panasonic UB820 disc player soon. For cables and from what i understand from reading here the RUIPRO is likely the best choice though there is a similiar Monoprice option. RUIPRO is cheaper. Both are 3x more expensive than the Monoprice DynamicView Active. Can i get away with the DynamicView or bite the bullet and hit to the wallet and go RUIPRO?
> 
> Lastly, I found these on Amazon. Price seems to cheap for this to be good. Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks



If you want to push 4k HDR over about 25' then your best bet is a hybrid fiber cable like Ruipro. They are expensive but do work very well for 4k HDR. I wouldn't use anything else. Just be mindful of bend radius and hopefully you are using a conduit for your cable run, which is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.


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## squigly1

Otto Pylot said:


> If you want to push 4k HDR over about 25' then your best bet is a hybrid fiber cable like Ruipro. They are expensive but do work very well for 4k HDR. I wouldn't use anything else. Just be mindful of bend radius and hopefully you are using a conduit for your cable run, which is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.


Can I use the fiber with like a HDMI port saver?


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## Otto Pylot

squigly1 said:


> Can I use the fiber with like a HDMI port saver?


The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible so you shouldn't need one. The connector ends are very slim as well even though they are slightly longer than a standard HDMI connector due to the electronics inside. The cable should work with a port saver but I don't know of anyone who has used one with a Ruipro cable so I can't say for sure.


----------



## squigly1

Otto Pylot said:


> The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible so you shouldn't need one. The connector ends are very slim as well even though they are slightly longer than a standard HDMI connector due to the electronics inside. The cable should work with a port saver but I don't know of anyone who has used one with a Ruipro cable so I can't say for sure.


For shorter run, like those from STB and BDP to the AVR is there anything special i need to look for in a cable or just get something like Monoprice 115428 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 28AWG?


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## Otto Pylot

squigly1 said:


> For shorter run, like those from STB and BDP to the AVR is there anything special i need to look for in a cable or just get something like Monoprice 115428 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 28AWG?


For runs under about 20', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) should work just fine. Just be mindful of bend radius and strain on the HDMI input.


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## filipp2442

Is there any kind of degradation advantage on the Ruipro? My installer is telling me there's a chance the 35ft HDMI Dynamicview 4k HDR one that I want to order Monoprice A could stop working after a few years.


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## TrendSetterX

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



filipp2442 said:


> Is there any kind of degradation advantage on the Ruipro? My installer is telling me there's a chance the 35ft HDMI Dynamicview 4k HDR one that I want to order Monoprice A could stop working after a few years.


Like any active electronics, there is likely some lifespan involved that is relative to specific operational scenarios like temperature, humidity, electrical anomalies, use, etc. That being said, any current generation active cable (fiber or copper) or HDBaseT or MOIP system installed now will fail to support the HDMI 2.1 VESA-based compression schemes coming down in the next year for full 8K and 4K 4:4:4 + HDR support (Unless supportable by a firmware update - which would only apply to HDBASET and MOIP)


----------



## Al Sherwood

filipp2442 said:


> Is there any kind of degradation advantage on the Ruipro? My installer is telling me there's a chance the 35ft HDMI Dynamicview 4k HDR one that I want to order Monoprice A could stop working after a few years.


Anything electronic could fail, although more likely you will change it when you go to 8K,,,



TrendSetterX said:


> Like any active electronics, there is likely some lifespan involved that is relative to specific operational scenarios like temperature, humidity, electrical anomalies, use, etc. That being said, any current generation active cable (fiber or copper) or HDBaseT or MOIP system installed now will fail to support the HDMI 2.1 VESA-based compression schemes coming down in the next year for full 8K and 4K 4:4:4 + HDR support (Unless supportable by a firmware update - which would only apply to HDBASET and MOIP)


Here are the specs for the DynamicView cables, for the cost a very inexpensive solution... oh and it does support 4K 4:4:4 @60Hz

Supports [email protected]: This cable supports HDMI® video resolutions up to [email protected] with YUV 4:4:4 chroma sampling. 

Supports HDR: HDR is an acronym for High Dynamic Range. TVs with HDR show a better, more realistic image with more contrast, brightness, and colors than ever before. HDR significantly expands contrast ratio and color accuracy. Contrast ratio is related to how bright or dark a screen is and color accuracy is how closely the colors on the screen match colors in real life. Bright images seem brighter, with more depth.

Up to 18Gbps Bandwidth: This cable delivers up to 18Gbps bandwidth, which allows it to support all of the features in the latest HDMI® specification.

HDCP 2.2 Compliant: High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP™) is a copy prevention technology that's been used on HDMI® connections for over ten years. Compliance with the latest HDCP 2.2 format ensures that the cable will not cause any unwanted dropouts or compatibility issues.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Al Sherwood said:


> Anything electronic could fail, although more likely you will change it when you go to 8K,,,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the specs for the DynamicView cables, for the cost a very inexpensive solution... oh and it does support 4K 4:4:4 @60Hz
> 
> 
> 
> Supports [email protected]: This cable supports HDMI video resolutions up to [email protected] with YUV 4:4:4 chroma sampling.
> 
> 
> 
> Supports HDR: HDR is an acronym for High Dynamic Range. TVs with HDR show a better, more realistic image with more contrast, brightness, and colors than ever before. HDR significantly expands contrast ratio and color accuracy. Contrast ratio is related to how bright or dark a screen is and color accuracy is how closely the colors on the screen match colors in real life. Bright images seem brighter, with more depth.
> 
> 
> 
> Up to 18Gbps Bandwidth: This cable delivers up to 18Gbps bandwidth, which allows it to support all of the features in the latest HDMI specification.
> 
> 
> 
> HDCP 2.2 Compliant: High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a copy prevention technology that's been used on HDMI connections for over ten years. Compliance with the latest HDCP 2.2 format ensures that the cable will not cause any unwanted dropouts or compatibility issues.


You’re confusing marketing with actual specifications of that cable. 

Does it support 4:4:4? Yes - but only at low bit-depth (not 10 or 12) and not with HDR.

Does it support HDR? Yes - but not at 4:4:4 and not with high bit-depth.

Does it support full HDMI 2.0b up to items that require 18gbs? Yes. (The items listed above with those caveats and limitations I mention are essentially 2.0b). (I’m mobile right now or I’d attach the visual chart of how this works out for easier understanding - although it should be posted somewhere earlier here)

Does it support HDMI 2.1 formats that require VESA compression (essentially 4:4:4 + hdr + high but depth at 4K or 8k without the caveats and limitations listed above) - No. And it won’t ever. Monoprice will create a new product with a new SKU that knows how to deal with the compressed signal.


----------



## Al Sherwood

TrendSetterX said:


> You’re confusing marketing with actual specifications of that cable.
> 
> Does it support 4:4:4? Yes - but only at low bit-depth (not 10 or 12) and not with HDR.
> 
> Does it support HDR? Yes - but not at 4:4:4 and not with high bit-depth.
> 
> Does it support full HDMI 2.0b up to items that require 18gbs? Yes. (The items listed above with those caveats and limitations I mention are essentially 2.0b). (I’m mobile right now or I’d attach the visual chart of how this works out for easier understanding - although it should be posted somewhere earlier here)
> 
> Does it support HDMI 2.1 formats that require VESA compression (essentially 4:4:4 + hdr + high but depth at 4K or 8k without the caveats and limitations listed above) - No. And it won’t ever. Monoprice will create a new product with a new SKU that knows how to deal with the compressed signal.


And of course you have proof of these deficiencies and limitations? Please cite them for us.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Al Sherwood said:


> And of course you have proof of these deficiencies and limitations? Please cite them for us.


? Not sure what you’re trying to get at - this is standard information I’m conveying to you. The cable tells you it’s good for up to 18gbs - which automatically tells you exactly what the cable can possibly support.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Al Sherwood said:


> And of course you have proof of these deficiencies and limitations? Please cite them for us.


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc

Note the HDMI Data Rate column - your cable can technically handle anything up to 18gbs but not over it.


----------



## Al Sherwood

TrendSetterX said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc
> 
> Note the HDMI Data Rate column - your cable can technically handle anything up to 18gbs but not over it.


Thank you for going to the extra effort and providing a link, much appreciated! So...

It does do all I thought it could but at 24 fps not 60 fps, essentially the specs are correct but limited to the frame rate.


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## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> That being said, any current generation active cable (fiber or copper) or HDBaseT or MOIP system installed now will fail to support the HDMI 2.1 VESA-based compression schemes coming down in the next year for full 8K and 4K 4:4:4 + HDR support (Unless supportable by a firmware update - which would only apply to HDBASET and MOIP)



Not quite sure the importance of VESA 1.4 display port standards are to most consumers. VESA 1.4 is limited to 32.4Gbps which is well below the HDMI 2.1 specification of 48Gbps. I must be missing something.


A hybrid fiber cable is still currently your best bet for 4k HDR runs over about 20'. Any cable can fail over time, active or passive but until HDMI 2.1 devices are out in the wild and the cable mfrs' have cables tested in consumer devices at various lengths, I wouldn't worry about it. 8k is initially going to be for a very few consumers (those with lots of money ). If you run your cabling in a conduit then upgrading your cabling when necessary will be easy. Cable specifications need to be taken with a grain of salt if the cable hasn't been certified. Unfortunately only passive cables up to 25' can be certified. Active cables can't so you'll need to rely on the mfrs reputation and recommendations from others. 



Video technology will always continue to outpace connection technology so plan on eventually upgrading your cabling as you upgrade your video technology. CONDUIT! CONDUIT! CONDUIT! is the mantra.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Not quite sure the importance of VESA 1.4 display port standards are to most consumers. VESA 1.4 is limited to 32.4Gbps which is well below the HDMI 2.1 specification of 48Gbps. I must be missing something.
> 
> 
> A hybrid fiber cable is still currently your best bet for 4k HDR runs over about 20'. Any cable can fail over time, active or passive but until HDMI 2.1 devices are out in the wild and the cable mfrs' have cables tested in consumer devices at various lengths, I wouldn't worry about it. 8k is initially going to be for a very few consumers (those with lots of money ). If you run your cabling in a conduit then upgrading your cabling when necessary will be easy. Cable specifications need to be taken with a grain of salt if the cable hasn't been certified. Unfortunately only passive cables up to 25' can be certified. Active cables can't so you'll need to rely on the mfrs reputation and recommendations from others.
> 
> 
> 
> Video technology will always continue to outpace connection technology so plan on eventually upgrading your cabling as you upgrade your video technology. CONDUIT! CONDUIT! CONDUIT! is the mantra.


The HDMI 2.1 spec makes use of VESA compression technology to support 8K and 4K at 4:4:4 12bit 60 with HDR (with optional support for lower resolutions). No current active cable technology (not even your RUIPRO) will know what to do with it - best case scenario, it ignores it and provides its own EDIDs limiting the support which means it will continue to work for lower (hdmi 2.0b) formats but not for the higher (hdmi 2.1) formats. Worst-case it doesn’t work at all due to miscommunications in EDIDs and/or handshaking.


----------



## squigly1

Otto Pylot said:


> For runs under about 20', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) should work just fine. Just be mindful of bend radius and strain on the HDMI input.


Cables ordered (Ruipro for long run to projector, Monoprice Premium with QR label for short run from STB and BDP to AVR)

Thanks for help.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> The HDMI 2.1 spec makes use of VESA compression technology to support 8K and 4K at 4:4:4 12bit 60 with HDR (with optional support for lower resolutions). No current active cable technology (not even your RUIPRO) will know what to do with it - best case scenario, it ignores it and provides its own EDIDs limiting the support which means it will continue to work for lower (hdmi 2.0b) formats but not for the higher (hdmi 2.1) formats. Worst-case it doesn’t work at all due to miscommunications in EDIDs and/or handshaking.


First of all it is not MY cable. I just did some testing for Ruipro and being as they let me keep the cables, I thought it was only right if I put in my signature line that I was "paid" by Ruipro to test their short-length cables.

VESA 1.2a is part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification. Ruipro, as other mfrs, are working on finalizing their cables to meet all of the HDMI 2.1 specifications. If their's and others cables pass the CTS, that will include VESA 1.2a. There are already prototype cables available that supposedly meet all of the requirements. 4:4:4 12-bit 60Hz would be nice if there were 12-bit panels but there aren't even true 10-bit panels yet so worrying about 8k, and even HDMI 2.1 at this point in time is a waste of energy. There are always going to be hurdles and compromises with the connection technologies so we'll just have to wait and see. Getting passed the 9' maximum length for passive cables and HDMI 2.1 is proving to be a real challenge for the cable mfrs., that's why active hybrid fiber cables will be needed probably from now on once HDMI 2.1 hits the streets.


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> 4:4:4 12-bit 60Hz would be nice if there were 12-bit panels but *there aren't even true 10-bit panels yet*


 I know that some 10bit panels are "8-bit FRC" but please would you explain what you meant?


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> I know that some 10bit panels are "8-bit FRC" but please would you explain what you meant?



Ah, now you got me thinking after I posted that. I guess my point was, and not very well made, is that there are 10-bit panels (my error, 8-bit + FRC), which can get close to true 10-bit panels (with a 10-bit signal) with, in theory, decreased banding and more colors, but worrying about 12-bit panels is a bit premature if someone is looking to get an HDMI cable now that should be able to easily handle 4k HDR over a given length, and worrying about fully compliant HDMI 2.1, VESA 1.2a or 1.4, 8k, etc is unnecessary at this time imo.


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> Ah, now you got me thinking after I posted that. I guess my point was, and not very well made, is that there are 10-bit panels (my error, 8-bit + FRC), which can get close to true 10-bit panels (with a 10-bit signal) with, in theory, decreased banding and more colors, but worrying about 12-bit panels is a bit premature if someone is looking to get an HDMI cable now that should be able to easily handle 4k HDR over a given length, and worrying about fully compliant HDMI 2.1, VESA 1.2a or 1.4, 8k, etc is unnecessary at this time imo.


OK, fair enough, but it's not a matter of opinion. For example, the 4K60 4:4:4 / RGB mode is only possible at *8bits* with HDMI2.0! PC Gamers already want 4K60 RGB in HDR, and to do that in 10bits needs >20Gbps. At the moment, they (and PS4Pro owners, and 3rd Xbox owners) have to use nasty fuzzy chroma sub-sampling and use the nasty 4:2:2 12-bit mode. This is because there is no 4:2:2 10bit mode which is actually part of HDMI2.0 See my sig. They aren't using this mode because they have 12 bit panels, it is just a carrier, and the content being sent through it is 10bit content.

So it's not so much about 12bits or not, it's a desire for the 10bit 4K60 4:4:4 / RGB mode, and that DOES need HDMI2.1 

See the first link in my sig


----------



## Al Sherwood

Otto Pylot said:


> Ah, now you got me thinking after I posted that. I guess my point was, and not very well made, is that there are 10-bit panels (my error, 8-bit + FRC), which can get close to true 10-bit panels (with a 10-bit signal) with, in theory, decreased banding and more colors, but worrying about 12-bit panels is a bit premature if someone is looking to get an HDMI cable now that should be able to easily handle 4k HDR over a given length, and worrying about fully compliant HDMI 2.1, VESA 1.2a or 1.4, 8k, etc is unnecessary at this time imo.


So just so I understand the nuances of 'better' cables and what is actually required for most of us... 

Regarding the Chroma Sub-sampling, aren't most TV series and movies distributed in 4:2:0, and therefore when watching Netflix, satellite or broadcast TV, Bluray and UHD discs what is getting sent to the display only requires a quality 18 Gbps HDMI cable?


----------



## mrtickleuk

Correct yes. My post was about the "we don't need anything more than what we have" line of thinking. Most Netflix content is 24fps, for a start


----------



## Otto Pylot

Al Sherwood said:


> So just so I understand the nuances of 'better' cables and what is actually required for most of us...
> 
> Regarding the Chroma Sub-sampling, aren't most TV series and movies distributed in 4:2:0, and therefore when watching Netflix, satellite or broadcast TV, Bluray and UHD discs what is getting sent to the display only requires a quality 18 Gbps HDMI cable?



Yes, as mrtickluk said. "Better" cables can be very confusing and misleading. All you really need to know, for now at least, is if the passive cable has been tested and certified (QR label) for High Speed HDMI. That ensures the consumer that the cable meets ALL of the current HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. It gets dicey once your cable run exceeds the 25' maximum certification length, and then you may have to consider an active cable, which can not be certified by an ATC, or a hybrid fiber cable, regardless of the cable mfr's claims.


----------



## toonontherun

I need to run a 50ft hdmi cable for a 1080p monitor from a pc, looking at the test I should be good with the BlueRigger cable. yes or no?


----------



## Otto Pylot

toonontherun said:


> I need to run a 50ft hdmi cable for a 1080p monitor from a pc, looking at the test I should be good with the BlueRigger cable. yes or no?



If all you want/need is 1080p then it may work. 50' is long for any cable, and at 50', the cable will be stiff due to the wire gauge so you will need to be mindful of the bend radius and the strain on the HDMI input. An active cable may be a better choice but all you can do is try. Cable descriptions/specs need to be taken with a big grain of salt.



That being said, if you have any plans on going past 1080p (4k HDR) then you will need a hybrid fiber cable. At 50' they are expensive. I'm assuming that you have easy access to the cabling. If you plan on installing it in-wall then you should seriously consider using a conduit as that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.


----------



## ARROW-AV

For those who are interested:

*HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1
*

:wink:


----------



## mrtickleuk

ARROW-AV said:


> For those who are interested:
> 
> *HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1
> *
> 
> :wink:


Very comprehensive, wow! Subscribed


----------



## exm

Just bought a 10M/33FT Ruipro cable for my new Sony 85X900F television. Looks like I might the right decision!


----------



## Otto Pylot

exm said:


> Just bought a 10M/33FT Ruipro cable for my new Sony 85X900F television. Looks like I might the right decision!



At lengths over 20', a hybrid fiber cable from Ruipro is what works best for most folks for 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0b). Possibly for HDMI 2.1 depending on which options you need.


----------



## shortstack31489

I just installed Ruipro 50ft cable to my projector and it flickers ever so often. Has anyone experienced this? I read issues with ARC but I am not using that feature. I probably have the option to scale down to 40ft,would there be improvement dropping 10ft? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

shortstack31489 said:


> I just installed Ruipro 50ft cable to my projector and it flickers ever so often. Has anyone experienced this? I read issues with ARC but I am not using that feature. I probably have the option to scale down to 40ft,would there be improvement dropping 10ft? Thanks in advance.



How is your cable installed? Are you using a conduit (recommended for in-wall). Is this source to sink or are you using a wall plate?


----------



## shortstack31489

Otto Pylot said:


> How is your cable installed? Are you using a conduit (recommended for in-wall). Is this source to sink or are you using a wall plate?


It is installed in cable channeling along the baseboards (not in wall). And direct connection to AVR and Projector.


----------



## the_jaguar

I want to thank the folks on this thread for the detailed analysis and recommendations. I had a 25 feet Amazon Basics cable that wasn't able to drive 4:4:4 8 bit 60 hz signal from my receiver to the projector (it was able to drive a 30 hz signal). After a lot of reading here, I ended up going with a Ruipro 10 meter cable and it works great - no issues whatsoever. Amazon even had a 19% off coupon, so in the end it worked out great.


----------



## Otto Pylot

shortstack31489 said:


> It is installed in cable channeling along the baseboards (not in wall). And direct connection to AVR and Projector.


If you are not using ARC then that is a non-issue. I would double-check your connections just to make sure that all is nice and tight and there isn't any strain on the HDMI input. 

Are both your sink and source on the same HDMI chipset?

Shorter lengths are always better.


----------



## giomania

shortstack31489 said:


> I just installed Ruipro 50ft cable to my projector and it flickers ever so often. Has anyone experienced this? I read issues with ARC but I am not using that feature. I probably have the option to scale down to 40ft,would there be improvement dropping 10ft? Thanks in advance.




I have a 50 foot Ruipro going from my basement rack to my family room and since fall, 2018 have been experiencing intermittent audio and video drops where the audio is more frequent (several times a minute), and the video less frequent (every few minutes).

My testing and experimentation regimen moved at a slow pace which is why I’ve been dealing with it for so long. 

I finally decided to contact Ruipro via Amazon with a brief explanation. They replied quickly and asked about my installation details and to send them a picture of the serial number. I gave them all the details of everything I had tried over the months and said I was willing to try other things and their response was: 

Thank you for the detailed response. We will send you another cable to rule out the cable as a factor. (Paraphrasing)

I wasn’t expecting them to just out right replace it without asking me to try other troubleshooting steps, so that was a pleasant surprise.

We will see if it makes a difference. I purchased the cable in July 2018, so I don’t know if there of been any chip revisions since then with these cables.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that's one of the nice things I discovered about Ruipro. They are very responsive to the customer and don't make you jump thru hoops. A very pleasant surprise indeed.


----------



## RichB

^^^
I had a similar experience when my 5 meter Ruipro cable failed. I supplied a picture of the serial number and they sent a replacement cable.
I have had no issues for about 9 months now. However, the Monoprice certified cable occasionally showed sparkles. I primarily bought the Ruipro to get a thinner, more flexible cable.


- Rich


----------



## Joe Fernand

shortstack31489 - it would be worth trying a 5v inserter just ahead of the Projector, ideally with a decent regulated PSU (though you can try the USB port on the Display device if it has one).

Occasionally you find a system which requires the additional power the 5v inserter supplies.

Joe


----------



## neo_2009

For a JVC X7900, using an HTPC with MadVr, an needing a 30ft HDMI cable, may i assume any of these cables should work?
- Monoprice *Certified Premium* High Speed HDMI Cable, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, 30ft Black
-  Monoprice Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 26AWG YUV 4:4:4 CL2 35ft Black
- Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 30ft, Black

I'm considering the first one, as its Certified Premium up to 30ft, with 18Gbps, so it should be enough to use with the eshift JVC X7900.
Any consideration for this specific use case?


----------



## Otto Pylot

neo_2009 said:


> For a JVC X7900, using an HTPC with MadVr, an needing a 30ft HDMI cable, may i assume any of these cables should work?
> - Monoprice *Certified Premium* High Speed HDMI Cable, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, 30ft Black
> -  Monoprice Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 26AWG YUV 4:4:4 CL2 35ft Black
> - Monoprice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 30ft, Black
> 
> I'm considering the first one, as its Certified Premium up to 30ft, with 18Gbps, so it should be enough to use with the eshift JVC X7900.
> Any consideration for this specific use case?



25' is traditionally the maximum length allowable for certification by an ATC (QR label for authenticity). In some cases, as your first link indicates, that has been pushed to 30'. The other two cables are active, which really offers you no better reliability for 4k HDR than the passive cable. Only passive cables can be certified at this point in time so you won't find an active, Premium High Speed HDMI cable. The product description for the certified cable doesn't list the wire gauge so my guess is that to attain the certification to 30', the wire gauge is a bit thicker. Because the cable is a bit thicker you will not have the bend radius that a thinner wire gauge cable will offer. That can result in increased strain on the HDMI inputs so just be mindful of bend radius. Hopefully at 30' you'll be installing your cable in a conduit or at least have easy access to it just in case you need to change the cable down the road. It's also a bit safer to fish a cable thru a conduit without damaging the connector ends than to pull it through a wall. I would lay the cable out on the floor before installation and test it to make sure it meets your needs.


The most reliable connection is source to sink with no adapters, extenders, wall plates, etc in-between devices. Just keep in mind that the cable is only a data pipe so there are other factors involved that factor into a successful cable run.


----------



## neo_2009

Otto Pylot said:


> It's also a bit safer to fish a cable thru a conduit without damaging the connector ends than to pull it through a wall. I would lay the cable out on the floor before installation and test it to make sure it meets your needs.


Thank you very much for your detailed response.
Yes, the cable will go through a large conduit, so it will be easy to swap it if needed.


(EDITlease discard this, its not accurate, i forgot the Projector is connected to the AV, not the HTPC)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, and as length seem to be the decisive factor, i should be able to install the HTPC so that i can use a shorter cable, like 20ft.

May i assume, that for my requirements, the 20ft Premium cable will work flawlessly?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EDIT:
For my requirements, and for a 30ft cable, would it be better to use the Premium Cable, the active ones, or i should get an Optical cable?


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'May i assume, that for my requirements, the 20ft Premium cable will work flawlessly?' _- never assume anything will work with HDMI, plan around pre testing before you 'install' a long cable and ensure you have a simple way to replace the cable as long HDMI Cables can and do fail, be damaged or become obsolete.

At 30' we would always suggest one of our RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables.

Joe


----------



## humbland

A question for the pros here:
I'm considering an upgrade to 4K. Among other things, it means changing out the AVR and Front Projector. Doable, but a hassle. However, the HDMI cable repacement involves tearing up walls
Are there any reliable _wireless HDMI links_ that are 4K/HDR compatable?
Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

neo_2009 said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed response.
> Yes, the cable will go through a large conduit, so it will be easy to swap it if needed.
> 
> 
> (EDITlease discard this, its not accurate, i forgot the Projector is connected to the AV, not the HTPC)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Nevertheless, and as length seem to be the decisive factor, i should be able to install the HTPC so that i can use a shorter cable, like 20ft.
> 
> May i assume, that for my requirements, the 20ft Premium cable will work flawlessly?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> For my requirements, and for a 30ft cable, would it be better to use the Premium Cable, the active ones, or i should get an Optical cable?


If your run is about 20' or under, then the Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work. Even though the 30' cable is supposedly certified, that's still pushing it. As Joe mentioned, what we usually recommend for runs over 25', if you want to push 4k HDR, then hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro) work very well and are reliable, albeit a bit pricey.

No cable mfr can or will give you a 100% guarantee that any cable will work flawlessly in any setup. Most will but it is still a bit of trial and error. Certification just means that the cable has been tested and certified following a program designed and maintained by HDMI.org.


----------



## neo_2009

Otto Pylot said:


> If your run is about 20' or under, then the Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work. Even though the 30' cable is supposedly certified, that's still pushing it.


The reason why i'm asking these questions, is due to my specific requirements, that don't need the full 18Gbps bandwidth.

According to the report on this topic:


> 18 GBPS VIDEO TEST: BILLY LYNN’S LONG HALFTIME WALK, 4K UHD HDR BLU-RAY DISC
> This particular title has a video signal that is 4K UHD, *60 FPS*, HDR, BT.2020 wide colour gamut (WCG) colorspace, with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, and 10-Bit colour depth; with resultant native video bandwidth of *11.1 Gbps*


Assuming that even this particular disc at 60fps only needs 11.1Gbps, i assume that a regular UHD should require even less bandwidth, and as such, even for a 30' run, the Premium High Speed HDMI should work. 

Nevertheless, as you well said, "it is still a bit of trial and error", so i will probably order the Premium High Speed HDMI first, try it, and if it does not work, go for the Hybrid Fibre cable.
I'm also installing a conduit that will allow swapping the cable in an easy way in the future.

Thank you for the help!


----------



## Otto Pylot

neo_2009 said:


> The reason why i'm asking these questions, is due to my specific requirements, that don't need the full 18Gbps bandwidth.
> 
> According to the report on this topic:
> 
> 
> Assuming that even this particular disc at 60fps only needs 11.1Gbps, i assume that a regular UHD should require even less bandwidth, and as such, even for a 30' run, the Premium High Speed HDMI should work.
> 
> Nevertheless, as you well said, "it is still a bit of trial and error", so i will probably order the Premium High Speed HDMI first, try it, and if it does not work, go for the Hybrid Fibre cable.
> I'm also installing a conduit that will allow swapping the cable in an easy way in the future.
> 
> Thank you for the help!


Don't worry about the bandwidth requirements. Premium High Speed HDMI cables will cover all of your needs and is the best you can do at this point in time. Distance is the achilles heel for 4k HDR. As you get closer to 20' - 25' and beyond, reliability will become an issue (even with a certified cable) and that's when we suggest you consider hybrid fiber (which is an active cable). HDMI chipset versions at both the source and sink end also play a critical role.

Glad to see that you will be installing conduit (1.5" - 2.0") because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. Wouldn't be a bad idea to also install a pull string (for future pulls) and possible solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) cabling. You can use the solid core CAT-6, with a keystone punchdown to extend your ethernet connection if want to hard wire your HTS, or use it with HDBT to extend an HDMI connection.


----------



## neo_2009

Otto Pylot said:


> Glad to see that you will be installing conduit (1.5" - 2.0") because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. Wouldn't be a bad idea to also install a pull string ...


Yes, i intent to have a system that would allow a simple swap in the future, when needed


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Are there any reliable wireless HDMI links that are 4K/HDR compatable?'_ - wireless HD was far (very far) from reliable with HD, there is little chance of it working with 4K UHD and HDR.

Plan for cables and ensure you don't face a full strip out next time around.

Joe


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> I have a 50 foot Ruipro going from my basement rack to my family room and since fall, 2018 have been experiencing intermittent audio and video drops where the audio is more frequent (several times a minute), and the video less frequent (every few minutes).
> 
> My testing and experimentation regimen moved at a slow pace which is why I’ve been dealing with it for so long.
> 
> I finally decided to contact Ruipro via Amazon with a brief explanation. They replied quickly and asked about my installation details and to send them a picture of the serial number. I gave them all the details of everything I had tried over the months and said I was willing to try other things and their response was:
> 
> Thank you for the detailed response. We will send you another cable to rule out the cable as a factor. (Paraphrasing)
> 
> I wasn’t expecting them to just out right replace it without asking me to try other troubleshooting steps, so that was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> We will see if it makes a difference. I purchased the cable in July 2018, so I don’t know if there of been any chip revisions since then with these cables.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The new cable arrived and was installed in the conduit yesterday, but the symptoms still persist. I re-tested the Denon AVR X3500H HDMI inputs, since Denon has recommended with other 4K AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices. I also tried using the voltage inserter at the AVR end, but that did not change any of the behavior.

It seems like HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT), the farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver seems a little bit better than Input #5 , which I have been using. I don't really see any pattern, except maybe the signal is "hot", but that is speculation without knowing the details of the Denon's HDMI design.

I don't want to go directly to the TV, since I like having the AVR's OSD. I am thinking to try an HDMI switch on the AVR end (RuiPro Display end into switch, out of switch into AVR), as maybe that will help mitigate issues. They are inexpensive enough to try it out. If there are any switch recommendations, let me know. I had heard that Sewell are OK.

Mark


----------



## TrendSetterX

giomania said:


> The new cable arrived and was installed in the conduit yesterday, but the symptoms still persist. I re-tested the Denon AVR X3500H HDMI inputs, since Denon has recommended with other 4K AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices. I also tried using the voltage inserter at the AVR end, but that did not change any of the behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT), the farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver seems a little bit better than Input #5 , which I have been using. I don't really see any pattern, except maybe the signal is "hot", but that is speculation without knowing the details of the Denon's HDMI design.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to go directly to the TV, since I like having the AVR's OSD. I am thinking to try an HDMI switch on the AVR end (RuiPro Display end into switch, out of switch into AVR), as maybe that will help mitigate issues. They are inexpensive enough to try it out. If there are any switch recommendations, let me know. I had heard that Sewell are OK.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark


Because you’re using an active cable, the need to follow Denon/Marantz recommendation of using closest input to output to avoid HDMI Clock-Sync timing issues should be rendered moot.


----------



## giomania

TrendSetterX said:


> Because you’re using an active cable, the need to follow Denon/Marantz recommendation of using closest input to output to avoid HDMI Clock-Sync timing issues should be rendered moot.




Actually the closest input to the output when used results in constant flashing of the signal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Mr.G

giomania said:


> The new cable arrived and was installed in the conduit yesterday, but the symptoms still persist. I re-tested the Denon AVR X3500H HDMI inputs, since Denon has recommended with other 4K AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices. I also tried using the voltage inserter at the AVR end, but that did not change any of the behavior.


I had issues with the Denon X2300W (2016 model) and the 50 foot Ruipro Hybrid cable (detailed in this thread in April) dropping the video/audio signal every 5 seconds to my 1080p plasma HDTV on HDMI output #2 . It may be unrelated to your issues but my problem occurred because I had a 4K projector (connected with the Ruipro) and a 1080p plasma set (high speed HDMI cable) connected at the same. If I disconnected the Ruipro cable to the 4K projector the signal interrupts to the 1080p HDTV stopped. As in your case Ruipro support graciously sent a new cable but that was not the problem _per se_, in other words I felt there was an incompatibility between the Denon HDMI chipset and the Ruipro chipset. I replaced the Denon with the Onkyo TX-RZ830 and the signal drop problem disappeared. So I wish you luck in figuring out where the problem lies.


----------



## TrendSetterX

giomania said:


> Actually the closest input to the output when used results in constant flashing of the signal.


Right and you said you had originally connected that way due to Denon/Marantz guidance - I’m just saying that bullet point in their guidance is moot for you because you have an active cable.


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> The new cable arrived and was installed in the conduit yesterday, but the symptoms still persist. I re-tested the Denon AVR X3500H HDMI inputs, since Denon has recommended with other 4K AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices. I also tried using the voltage inserter at the AVR end, but that did not change any of the behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT), the farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver seems a little bit better than Input #5 , which I have been using. I don't really see any pattern, except maybe the signal is "hot", but that is speculation without knowing the details of the Denon's HDMI design.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to go directly to the TV, since I like having the AVR's OSD. I am thinking to try an HDMI switch on the AVR end (RuiPro Display end into switch, out of switch into AVR), as maybe that will help mitigate issues. They are inexpensive enough to try it out. If there are any switch recommendations, let me know. I had heard that Sewell are OK.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark




Update: I found a setting in the Lumagen Radiance Pro that seems to mitigate the issue. The setting is in the Output Style Settings, HDMI Format, Reduce Max, and the description is: “Reduce Max Output Bandwidth”.

While that is a positive sign, now I can’t see the volume OSD. When I open the AVR menu, the video disappears when the menu comes up. When I exit the menu, the video comes back.

I will call Lumagen tomorrow to see what that setting actually does.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## TrendSetterX

giomania said:


> Update: I found a setting in the Lumagen Radiance Pro that seems to mitigate the issue. The setting is in the Output Style Settings, HDMI Format, Reduce Max, and the description is: “Reduce Max Output Bandwidth”.
> 
> While that is a positive sign, now I can’t see the volume OSD. When I open the AVR menu, the video disappears when the menu comes up. When I exit the menu, the video comes back.
> 
> I will call Lumagen tomorrow to see what that setting actually does.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Those options usually reduce chroma or bit depth or both - essentially swapping maximum quality for compatibility.


----------



## giomania

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



TrendSetterX said:


> Those options usually reduce chroma or bit depth or both - essentially swapping maximum quality for compatibility.



I just talked to Jim at Lumagen, and he said the Reduce Max Output Bandwidth setting only reduces the output clock rate, therefore reducing the blanking time.

He said the only problem is some devices don’t know what to do with that, which is the reason why I lost the OSD on my AVR.

He is recommending that I try limiting the max frequency of the 18 GHz HDMI output card to 9 GHz. 

While this will send 4K/60 at 8-bit color depth (YCbCr 4:2:0) he said because they dither the video, that most people cannot tell the difference. He said he can’t tell the difference.

To bring this (sort of) back on topic, he thinks the 15 meter RuiPro cable is fine and that it is my AVR that is the problem.

Edit: I love my Denon AVR’s, and do not place any blame for this (admittedly) fringe and extremely challenging HDMI setup I have.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> I have a 50 foot Ruipro going from my basement rack to my family room and since fall, 2018 have been experiencing intermittent audio and video drops where the audio is more frequent (several times a minute), and the video less frequent (every few minutes).
> 
> My testing and experimentation regimen moved at a slow pace which is why I’ve been dealing with it for so long.
> 
> I finally decided to contact Ruipro via Amazon with a brief explanation. They replied quickly and asked about my installation details and to send them a picture of the serial number. I gave them all the details of everything I had tried over the months and said I was willing to try other things and their response was:
> 
> Thank you for the detailed response. We will send you another cable to rule out the cable as a factor. (Paraphrasing)
> 
> I wasn’t expecting them to just out right replace it without asking me to try other troubleshooting steps, so that was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> We will see if it makes a difference. I purchased the cable in July 2018, so I don’t know if there of been any chip revisions since then with these cables.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





giomania said:


> The new cable arrived and was installed in the conduit yesterday, but the symptoms still persist. I re-tested the Denon AVR X3500H HDMI inputs, since Denon has recommended with other 4K AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices. I also tried using the voltage inserter at the AVR end, but that did not change any of the behavior.
> 
> It seems like HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT), the farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver seems a little bit better than Input #5 , which I have been using. I don't really see any pattern, except maybe the signal is "hot", but that is speculation without knowing the details of the Denon's HDMI design.
> 
> I don't want to go directly to the TV, since I like having the AVR's OSD. I am thinking to try an HDMI switch on the AVR end (RuiPro Display end into switch, out of switch into AVR), as maybe that will help mitigate issues. They are inexpensive enough to try it out. If there are any switch recommendations, let me know. I had heard that Sewell are OK.
> 
> Mark





giomania said:


> Update: I found a setting in the Lumagen Radiance Pro that seems to mitigate the issue. The setting is in the Output Style Settings, HDMI Format, Reduce Max, and the description is: “Reduce Max Output Bandwidth”.
> 
> While that is a positive sign, now I can’t see the volume OSD. When I open the AVR menu, the video disappears when the menu comes up. When I exit the menu, the video comes back.
> 
> I will call Lumagen tomorrow to see what that setting actually does.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





giomania said:


> I just talked to Jim at Lumagen, and he said the Reduce Max Output Bandwidth setting only reduces the output clock rate, therefore reducing the blanking time.
> 
> He said the only problem is some devices don’t know what to do with that, which is the reason why I lost the OSD on my AVR.
> 
> He is recommending that I try limiting the max frequency of the 18 GHz HDMI output card to 9 GHz.
> 
> While this will send 4K/60 at 8-bit color depth (YCbCr 4:2:0) he said because they dither the video, that most people cannot tell the difference. He said he can’t tell the difference.
> 
> To bring this (sort of) back on topic, he thinks the 15 meter RuiPro cable is fine and that it is my AVR that is the problem.
> 
> Edit: I love my Denon AVR’s, and do not place any blame for this (admittedly) fringe and extremely challenging HDMI setup I have.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


As another update, I recently watched Jack Ryan on Amazon in 4K UHD / Dolby Atmos, and experienced the audio and video drops on both the Nvidia Shield TV and the Apple TV 4K. I had never really used these two source devices, which is probably why I never notice it before. That said, the frequency of the drops is much less, and the audio drops are much less noticeable. I tried limiting the output to 9 GHz, and it also solved the problem for those two source devices. 

While that solution is OK for the 1080p TiVo DVR, I don't want to have the 9 GHz limitation for the HDR capable Nvidia Shield TV and the Apple TV 4K. 

It seems like the issue could be the cable or the AVR. Lumagen sells the Tributaries UHD Titan active cable, and I can purchase that cable from them for 10% off MSRP. I am just not sure how I want to proceed.

Thanks for any input.

Mark


----------



## Otto Pylot

My initial thought would be if you had two different Ruipro cables and the same problem persisted I would look at other devices in your chain, including the avr becuase it does seem a bit odd that two cables would have the same problem. It's possible but odds are it's something else in your setup. Being as you are installing in a conduit (good for you!) are you sure there aren't any serious bends in the run? The Ruipro cables do have a very generous bend radius but it's something to consider. How did you snake the cable thru the conduit, pull string?


----------



## giomania

*TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS &amp; HDMI 2.0b*



Otto Pylot said:


> My initial thought would be if you had two different Ruipro cables and the same problem persisted I would look at other devices in your chain, including the avr becuase it does seem a bit odd that two cables would have the same problem. It's possible but odds are it's something else in your setup. Being as you are installing in a conduit (good for you!) are you sure there aren't any serious bends in the run? The Ruipro cables do have a very generous bend radius but it's something to consider. How did you snake the cable thru the conduit, pull string?




Thanks for the input, Otto.

I think the most restrictive bend radius in the conduit is about 6”, which is the point that it turns to go up into the wall near the receiver in the family room system.

In the conduit (1” smurf tubing) I have three cat 5E cable‘s as well that are about 5 feet longer than the HDMI cable. To install the cable in the conduit, I retract the whole bundle, and attach a pull string at the end. I attach the new cable to the bundle with electrical tape and fish the bundle (5’ Cat 5e lead first) attached to the pull string back through the conduit. 

Yes it is a little tight, but with someone downstairs pulling someone upstairs fishing it goes relatively smoothly. If I could go back on time, I would’ve installed larger diameter gray PVC as the conduit.

I still have the other cable and can try using that from the Lumagen to the Marantz AV8805 processor in my theater to see if the issue exists with that setup. I don’t have another 4K capable receiver to test out, so that is the best testing scenario I can think of to try and determine if it is the cable.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Thanks for the input, Otto.
> 
> I think the most restrictive bend radius in the conduit is about 6”, which is the point that it turns to go up into the wall near the receiver in the family room system.
> 
> I still have the other cable and can try using that from the Lumagen to the Marantz AV8805 processor in my theater to see if the issue exists with that setup. I don’t have another 4K capable receiver to test out, so that is the best testing scenario I can think of to try and determine if it is the cable.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


If the bend is gentle enough, iow, not a sharp 90 degree that shouldn't be a factor. Hybrid fiber cables are fairly flexible, unlike copper cables, so you have more room to make those bends without any issues. Did you use a pull string attached to the body of the cable to pull it thru?

Trying another cable is certainly a viable option. No cable mfr can promise you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to work in every system but I do find it odd that two cables from the same mfr have the same issues. Is there a way to connect the cable directly to the tv as a test, bypassing the receiver altogether?


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> If the bend is gentle enough, iow, not a sharp 90 degree that shouldn't be a factor. Hybrid fiber cables are fairly flexible, unlike copper cables, so you have more room to make those bends without any issues. Did you use a pull string attached to the body of the cable to pull it thru?
> 
> Trying another cable is certainly a viable option. No cable mfr can promise you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to work in every system but I do find it odd that two cables from the same mfr have the same issues. Is there a way to connect the cable directly to the tv as a test, bypassing the receiver altogether?




I forgot about addressing the pull string question and was editing my post above when you responded:

In the conduit (1” smurf tubing) I have three cat 5E cable‘s as well that are about 5 feet longer than the HDMI cable. To install the cable in the conduit, I retract the whole bundle, and attach a pull string at the end. I attach the new cable to the bundle with electrical tape and fish the bundle (5’ Cat 5e lead first) attached to the pull string back through the conduit. 

Yes it is a little tight, but with someone downstairs pulling someone upstairs fishing it goes relatively smoothly. If I could go back on time, I would’ve installed larger diameter gray PVC as the conduit.

I definitely have enough slack in the cable upstairs to connect directly to the TV but I’m not sure if that will reveal the audio problem, as the TV is only two channel, but the video drop-out issues should be easy to see.

So now I have two things I can test over the weekend; Direct connection to the TV in the family room (bypassing the receiver) and trying the other RuiPro cable in my home theater system. 

Thanks for the input!

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> I forgot about addressing the pull string question and was editing my post above when you responded:
> 
> In the conduit (1” smurf tubing) I have three cat 5E cable‘s as well that are about 5 feet longer than the HDMI cable. To install the cable in the conduit, I retract the whole bundle, and attach a pull string at the end. I attach the new cable to the bundle with electrical tape and fish the bundle (5’ Cat 5e lead first) attached to the pull string back through the conduit.
> 
> Yes it is a little tight, but with someone downstairs pulling someone upstairs fishing it goes relatively smoothly. If I could go back on time, I would’ve installed larger diameter gray PVC as the conduit.
> 
> I definitely have enough slack in the cable upstairs to connect directly to the TV but I’m not sure if that will reveal the audio problem, as the TV is only two channel, but the video drop-out issues should be easy to see.
> 
> So now I have two things I can test over the weekend; Direct connection to the TV in the family room (bypassing the receiver) and trying the other RuiPro cable in my home theater system.
> 
> Thanks for the input!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It sounds like it's not the installation then. You might want to consider attaching the fiber cable to single CAT-5e cable and then pulling those two thru first. It's not necessarily the slack in the cable outside of the conduit it's maybe the bend radius inside the conduit. Just a thought. Speaking of CAT-5e cable, I've always used solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT ethernet patch cable). I just terminate the ends myself with a punchdown keystone jack to extend my ethernet connection. If ever decide to go the HDMI route I can terminate with HDBT. Hopefully just fishing another mfrs cable thru will correct the issue and just chalk it up to a bad cable (or two). I've been using the 3m Ruipro4k cables as a test in my system for the last couple of months and have not experienced any issues at all. However, short lengths are much less demanding than long lengths. Let us know how the direct connection goes.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> My initial thought would be if you had two different Ruipro cables and the same problem persisted I would look at other devices in your chain, including the avr becuase it does seem a bit odd that two cables would have the same problem. It's possible but odds are it's something else in your setup. Being as you are installing in a conduit (good for you!) are you sure there aren't any serious bends in the run? The Ruipro cables do have a very generous bend radius but it's something to consider. How did you snake the cable thru the conduit, pull string?


I agree with all this. It doesn't sound like the cable (although it IS possible).

As discussed above, try with cable without the AVR in the chain.

Also, I don't mean to insult Denon, I've had Denon receivers in the past and they have been excellent, but I'd be highly dubious of any product where the _manufacturer_ is recommending different HDMI ports for high bandwidth uses when all are specified for 18Gb/s HDMI 2.0. It suggests, to be frank, they know their design is marginal at best and just hope most won't notice (probably because they don't use 4K at all, or only in


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I've been noticing lately that a lot of the folks who are having issues with getting eARC to work correctly have Denon receivers and the "try the input closest to the source" has been mentioned before as a "fix". Sounds like a basic design flaw in the Denon receivers if a direct connect works, bypassing the Denon. I have Yamaha receivers for both of my HTS's and have never experienced any issues with them. Denon does make good receivers so it could just be a production issue and not indicative of their entire product line.


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> As another update, I recently watched Jack Ryan on Amazon in 4K UHD / Dolby Atmos, and experienced the audio and video drops on both the Nvidia Shield TV and the Apple TV 4K. I had never really used these two source devices, which is probably why I never notice it before. That said, the frequency of the drops is much less, and the audio drops are much less noticeable. I tried limiting the output to 9 GHz, and it also solved the problem for those two source devices.
> 
> While that solution is OK for the 1080p TiVo DVR, I don't want to have the 9 GHz limitation for the HDR capable Nvidia Shield TV and the Apple TV 4K.
> 
> It seems like the issue could be the cable or the AVR. Lumagen sells the Tributaries UHD Titan active cable, and I can purchase that cable from them for 10% off MSRP. I am just not sure how I want to proceed.
> 
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Mark





Otto Pylot said:


> My initial thought would be if you had two different Ruipro cables and the same problem persisted I would look at other devices in your chain, including the avr becuase it does seem a bit odd that two cables would have the same problem. It's possible but odds are it's something else in your setup. Being as you are installing in a conduit (good for you!) are you sure there aren't any serious bends in the run? The Ruipro cables do have a very generous bend radius but it's something to consider. How did you snake the cable thru the conduit, pull string?





giomania said:


> Thanks for the input, Otto.
> 
> I think the most restrictive bend radius in the conduit is about 6”, which is the point that it turns to go up into the wall near the receiver in the family room system.
> 
> In the conduit (1” smurf tubing) I have three cat 5E cable‘s as well that are about 5 feet longer than the HDMI cable. To install the cable in the conduit, I retract the whole bundle, and attach a pull string at the end. I attach the new cable to the bundle with electrical tape and fish the bundle (5’ Cat 5e lead first) attached to the pull string back through the conduit.
> 
> Yes it is a little tight, but with someone downstairs pulling someone upstairs fishing it goes relatively smoothly. If I could go back on time, I would’ve installed larger diameter gray PVC as the conduit.
> 
> I still have the other cable and can try using that from the Lumagen to the Marantz AV8805 processor in my theater to see if the issue exists with that setup. I don’t have another 4K capable receiver to test out, so that is the best testing scenario I can think of to try and determine if it is the cable.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





Otto Pylot said:


> If the bend is gentle enough, iow, not a sharp 90 degree that shouldn't be a factor. Hybrid fiber cables are fairly flexible, unlike copper cables, so you have more room to make those bends without any issues.
> 
> Trying another cable is certainly a viable option. No cable mfr can promise you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to work in every system but I do find it odd that two cables from the same mfr have the same issues. Is there a way to connect the cable directly to the tv as a test, bypassing the receiver altogether?





giomania said:


> Yes it is a little tight, but with someone downstairs pulling someone upstairs fishing it goes relatively smoothly. If I could go back on time, I would’ve installed larger diameter gray PVC as the conduit.
> 
> I definitely have enough slack in the cable upstairs to connect directly to the TV but I’m not sure if that will reveal the audio problem, as the TV is only two channel, but the video drop-out issues should be easy to see.
> 
> So now I have two things I can test over the weekend; Direct connection to the TV in the family room (bypassing the receiver) and trying the other RuiPro cable in my home theater system.
> 
> Thanks for the input!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





jong1 said:


> I agree with all this. It doesn't sound like the cable (although it IS possible).
> 
> As discussed above, try with cable without the AVR in the chain.
> 
> Also, I don't mean to insult Denon, I've had Denon receivers in the past and they have been excellent, but I'd be highly dubious of any product where the _manufacturer_ is recommending different HDMI ports for high bandwidth uses when all are specified for 18Gb/s HDMI 2.0. It suggests, to be frank, they know their design is marginal at best and just hope most won't notice (probably because they don't use 4K at all, or only in


----------



## bulls

10 ft cable for 4k 60? 

i got this 'highly rated' blue-black color cable off amz and ofcourse its not working properly - at 4k60 its either dropping video for fraction of second or dropping audio entirely... and works without issue at 1080p...
i returned to amz

anyone know of a cheap option for 10 ft hdmi that works at 4k60 ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bulls said:


> 10 ft cable for 4k 60?
> 
> i got this 'highly rated' blue-black color cable off amz and ofcourse its not working properly - at 4k60 its either dropping video for fraction of second or dropping audio entirely... and works without issue at 1080p...
> i returned to amz
> 
> anyone know of a cheap option for 10 ft hdmi that works at 4k60 ?


The only high speed HDMI cables that are certified by HDMI.org are the Premium High Speed HDMI cables. They will come with a QR label for authenticity and can be purchased from a number of vendors. They are not mfr specific. A certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that it will work with all setups but at least you know that it has been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0 hardware by an Authorized Testing Center (ATC) following the standardized testing protocols designed and implemented by HDMI.org. Just be mindful of bend radius and make sure there is no strain on the HDMI input.


----------



## bulls

is there a super high bandwidth test file to check a cable ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bulls said:


> is there a super high bandwidth test file to check a cable ?


I don't know of one but that doesn't mean there isn't one. The Premium HDMI cable that I mentioned is certified at 18Gbps, which is the maximum allowable for HDMI 2.0 hardware. If you think you need something faster, like the soon-to-be-released cable that meets the HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cap you'll have to wait awhile longer.

[email protected] is part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications so again, the Premium High Speed HDMI cables should work just fine, especially at 10'.


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> I don't know of one but that doesn't mean there isn't one. The Premium HDMI cable that I mentioned is certified at 18Gbps, which is the maximum allowable for HDMI 2.0 hardware. If you think you need something faster, like the soon-to-be-released cable that meets the HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cap you'll have to wait awhile longer.
> 
> [email protected] is part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications so again, the Premium High Speed HDMI cables should work just fine, especially at 10'.


https://www.strata-gee.com/tributaries-industry-first-10-meter-hdmi-cable-certification/

Has anyone used this cable from Tributaries?

I am doing some rework in my theater room and I like the thoughts of a passive cable with no electronics to possibly fail.

Is this a true passive cable with no power requirements?

10 M passive is quite a claim at this length.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> https://www.strata-gee.com/tributaries-industry-first-10-meter-hdmi-cable-certification/
> 
> Has anyone used this cable from Tributaries?
> 
> I am doing some rework in my theater room and I like the thoughts of a passive cable with no electronics to possibly fail.
> 
> Is this a true passive cable with no power requirements?
> 
> 10 M passive is quite a claim at this length.


A 32' passive cable for $400  And I thought hybrid fiber was expensive..... DPL is another certification process, but it is proprietary and not available to a lot of other cable mfrs, and is a competitor, if you will, for the ATC's, the certification arm of HDMI.org. Tributaries is the consumer part of Strata-gee.com, who is owned by Stratecon Group, a marketing and business strategy company.

I would be leery of a >30' passive cable for 4k HDR. “patented, advanced metallurgical engineering” sure sounds like marketing at its best. But maybe they have made a breakthrough and their claims are true and accurate. I would carefully read their product literature. Personally, I would rather spend $400 on a hybrid fiber cable that I know works than the Tributaries cable, even though it is "certified" by DPL labs and has been tested by ISF (Imaging Science Foundation, an organization which trains video calibrators but does test products to ensure that they meet ISF standards).

If you're reworking your theater room then I assume you have 1.5" - 2.0" conduit installed. If you do, then replacing/upgrading your cabling is easy to do. I understand your apprehension about active cables but I really think that they are what is going to be proven to work reliably for 4k HDR, HDMI 2.1, and beyond. CONDUIT! CONDUIT! CONDUIT! is the mantra


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> A 32' passive cable for $400  And I thought hybrid fiber was expensive..... DPL is another certification process, but it is proprietary and not available to a lot of other cable mfrs, and is a competitor, if you will, for the ATC's, the certification arm of HDMI.org. Tributaries is the consumer part of Strata-gee.com, who is owned by Stratecon Group, a marketing and business strategy company.
> 
> I would be leery of a >30' passive cable for 4k HDR. “patented, advanced metallurgical engineering” sure sounds like marketing at its best. But maybe they have made a breakthrough and their claims are true and accurate. I would carefully read their product literature. Personally, I would rather spend $400 on a hybrid fiber cable that I know works than the Tributaries cable, even though it is "certified" by DPL labs and has been tested by ISF (Imaging Science Foundation, an organization which trains video calibrators but does test products to ensure that they meet ISF standards).
> 
> If you're reworking your theater room then I assume you have 1.5" - 2.0" conduit installed. If you do, then replacing/upgrading your cabling is easy to do. I understand your apprehension about active cables but I really think that they are what is going to be proven to work reliably for 4k HDR, HDMI 2.1, and beyond. CONDUIT! CONDUIT! CONDUIT! is the mantra


When I built the room 12 years ago I was not comfortable then and still am not comfortable drilling a 2 inch hole through all the joists and also a critical support beam at one section of the room.

The most I would drill is something over 1 1/8 which allowed me to run HDMI and some smaller holes for speaker wire and electrical.

Now I am changing the screen to an acoustically transparent screen and adding four in ceiling speakers and two rear channels.

The larger screen means I will be relocating the projector further back and moving all the ceiling outlets... electrical and HDMI.

In the future if I need to upgrade the HDMI I will be feed a new cable across the room in the ceiling joist cavity to the wall and run it under the crown molding to the AV rack. This is a bit of work but do not have to rip the room apart like right now.

I have two passive Atlona HDMI 1.3b cables right now. One I used and one I put in before as a spare... (never had to use the spare in 12 years!)

What my plans are since i have access to the existing two cable paths is:

Run two - Cat 6a

Run two - LC to LC Optical Fiber

Run two - Celerity UFO Optical Fiber (No ends bought at this point)

Run two - Ruipro HDMI 2.1 when available soon.

Leave existing HDMI 1.3b to be use until upgrade to 4K projector and receiver.

Which brings me to the Tributaries product.

https://www.tributariescable.com/index.cfm

If I replace the two Atlona cables with this passive Tributaires product and IF it turns out the it can ONLY can do HDMI 1.3b I am in the exactly the same spot with a passive cable as I am right now.

IF it turns out that it actually can do HDMI 18 GBPS then I have a passive solution which should not fail unless it suffers damage some how... which is not likely after construction is over.

https://www.tributariescable.com/products/UHDT

https://www.tributariescable.com/assets/resources/1F25E4F1-2590-751F-D06B11B558B8D243.pdf

https://www.tributariescable.com/assets/resources/4460CE25-2590-751F-D0D50DA2F07C8134.pdf

My thought would be to use this passive cable for when I reinstall my existing 1080P projector and when I upgrade the projector then give this cable a try if it works with 4K and HDR great ... if it does not then I would move on to the active solutions that would sitting in the ceiling waiting to be used.

I was going to reuse my existing Atlona HDMI 1.3b until the projector upgrade as well.

One thing I do not understand from the specification sheet is under HDMI compliance:

HDMI Compliance

HDMI ATC Certification Category 2 / High Speed with Ethernet
Certified Data Rate 3.4Gbps / 10.2Gbps (4K UHD)
Supported Clock Rate 340Mhz

Why does it state Certified Data Rate 3.4 GBPS/10.2GBPS 

when they talk about 18 GBPS?

I not understand all the technical details but I would have thought this should be 6 GBPS/18 GBPS

I emailed them to ask about them able to supply a passive 10M 18 GBPS HDMI 2.0 cable so I will ask this question when they reply.

Thanks for taking interest.


----------



## MMC57

This interview gives me some hope.

Gene DellaSala from Audioholics interviews Joe Perfito of Tributaries


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> When I built the room 12 years ago I was not comfortable then and still am not comfortable drilling a 2 inch hole through all the joists and also a critical support beam at one section of the room.
> 
> The most I would drill is something over 1 1/8 which allowed me to run HDMI and some smaller holes for speaker wire and electrical.
> 
> Now I am changing the screen to an acoustically transparent screen and adding four in ceiling speakers and two rear channels.
> 
> The larger screen means I will be relocating the projector further back and moving all the ceiling outlets... electrical and HDMI.
> 
> In the future if I need to upgrade the HDMI I will be feed a new cable across the room in the ceiling joist cavity to the wall and run it under the crown molding to the AV rack. This is a bit of work but do not have to rip the room apart like right now.
> 
> I have two passive Atlona HDMI 1.3b cables right now. One I used and one I put in before as a spare... (never had to use the spare in 12 years!)
> 
> What my plans are since i have access to the existing two cable paths is:
> 
> Run two - Cat 6a
> 
> Run two - LC to LC Optical Fiber
> 
> Run two - Celerity UFO Optical Fiber (No ends bought at this point)
> 
> Run two - Ruipro HDMI 2.1 when available soon.
> 
> Leave existing HDMI 1.3b to be use until upgrade to 4K projector and receiver.
> 
> Which brings me to the Tributaries product.
> 
> https://www.tributariescable.com/index.cfm
> 
> If I replace the two Atlona cables with this passive Tributaires product and IF it turns out the it can ONLY can do HDMI 1.3b I am in the exactly the same spot with a passive cable as I am right now.
> 
> IF it turns out that it actually can do HDMI 18 GBPS then I have a passive solution which should not fail unless it suffers damage some how... which is not likely after construction is over.
> 
> https://www.tributariescable.com/products/UHDT
> 
> https://www.tributariescable.com/assets/resources/1F25E4F1-2590-751F-D06B11B558B8D243.pdf
> 
> https://www.tributariescable.com/assets/resources/4460CE25-2590-751F-D0D50DA2F07C8134.pdf
> 
> My thought would be to use this passive cable for when I reinstall my existing 1080P projector and when I upgrade the projector then give this cable a try if it works with 4K and HDR great ... if it does not then I would move on to the active solutions that would sitting in the ceiling waiting to be used.
> 
> I was going to reuse my existing Atlona HDMI 1.3b until the projector upgrade as well.
> 
> One thing I do not understand from the specification sheet is under HDMI compliance:
> 
> HDMI Compliance
> 
> HDMI ATC Certification Category 2 / High Speed with Ethernet
> Certified Data Rate 3.4Gbps / 10.2Gbps (4K UHD)
> Supported Clock Rate 340Mhz
> 
> Why does it state Certified Data Rate 3.4 GBPS/10.2GBPS
> 
> when they talk about 18 GBPS?
> 
> I not understand all the technical details but I would have thought this should be 6 GBPS/18 GBPS
> 
> I emailed them to ask about them able to supply a passive 10M 18 GBPS HDMI 2.0 cable so I will ask this question when they reply.
> 
> Thanks for taking interest.


You are in a bit of a bind then if you can't install conduit of some sort. Is this a basement or do you have attic /ceiling access? Sounds like you don't. Is there any way to run your cabling along the baseboard in some sort of enclosure? In my other house I ran conduit down the inside walls (an experienced electrician can do that without opening the walls if they have attic access) and left the cabling neatly tucked up in the attic space (along with the required pull string).

The reason why I mentioned you read the product description carefully is for the very reason you mentioned. The cable specs are not clear, and imo, confusing on purpose. The Tributaries cable makes me a bit nervous. A passive cable, even at that length, should work ok for 1080p but as I said, for reliable 4k HDR and beyond, you're gonna need an active cable, be it copper or preferably hybrid fiber. There's no way around that.

Celerity has had lots of issues with their active connectors so test thoroughly before final installation if you go that route. I'm not a fan, but others are. If you run a CAT-6 cable, which is a good idea, make sure it is solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not a CAT-6 ethernet cable). You can terminate it with a punch down keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection (I do that so that both of my HTS's can be hardwired) or you can terminate it with HDBT (once the new chipsets are available) to extend an HDMI connection.

Conduit is truly the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKwraKQ4zLg
> 
> This interview gives me some hope.
> 
> Gene DellaSala from Audioholics interviews Joe Perfito of Tributaries


I couldn't find the wire gauge of the cable. My guess is that the cable is thick which means you have a very narrow bend radius, which can affect reliable signal transmission, and you will have increased strain on the HDMI input unless you have a way to connect the cable straight in and support the weight of the cable.


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> You are in a bit of a bind then if you can't install conduit of some sort. Is this a basement or do you have attic /ceiling access? Sounds like you don't. Is there any way to run your cabling along the baseboard in some sort of enclosure? In my other house I ran conduit down the inside walls (an experienced electrician can do that without opening the walls if they have attic access) and left the cabling neatly tucked up in the attic space (along with the required pull string).
> 
> The reason why I mentioned you read the product description carefully is for the very reason you mentioned. The cable specs are not clear, and imo, confusing on purpose. The Tributaries cable makes me a bit nervous. A passive cable, even at that length, should work ok for 1080p but as I said, for reliable 4k HDR and beyond, you're gonna need an active cable, be it copper or preferably hybrid fiber. There's no way around that.
> 
> Celerity has had lots of issues with their active connectors so test thoroughly before final installation if you go that route. I'm not a fan, but others are. If you run a CAT-6 cable, which is a good idea, make sure it is solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not a CAT-6 ethernet cable). You can terminate it with a punch down keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection (I do that so that both of my HTS's can be hardwired) or you can terminate it with HDBT (once the new chipsets are available) to extend an HDMI connection.
> 
> Conduit is truly the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs.


Room is in the basement and I have two floors above with some load bearing points at various locations where I needed to run wires.

No way I was going to take a chance on playing around with support structures for a conduit.... but I have opened the ceiling so I can use the existing holes to run a the cables I mentioned above.

In the future IF I need to I will use the crown molding to run HDMI if the cables I put in now fail or do not work properly in the future.

"My conduit" will be the crown molding which I will "lightly" pin in place after the ceiling is repaired so I will have fairly easy access if I need to get in behind it.

I have never used an active cable and just do not know how long they will last vs a passive cable.

I will ask lots of questions before I do anything with the Tributaries cable.

As far a Celerity goes yes I have heard of problems but felt in theory it is actually a good design when you can just changed out the ends if they fail or need an upgrade... that is if they work at all! I just felt it was worth a shot to include a couple of runs as one possible solution.


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> I couldn't find the wire gauge of the cable. My guess is that the cable is thick which means you have a very narrow bend radius, which can affect reliable signal transmission, and you will have increased strain on the HDMI input unless you have a way to connect the cable straight in and support the weight of the cable.


I think it is a BIG piece of copper!..... the bit about "special wire" is probably marketing and some way to get a patent.... somewhere I read the 10M cables weighs 10 LBS!

If it truly is a passive cable then the only thing you can do is make the wire bigger.

So bend radius is a concern... I am not so worried about the projector end but the AV rack where it would go into the AVR receiver is always a concern as AV rack are always "tight"... would have to made sure there is no load on the connection.

I think the weight of the cable is why they added some features to try and keep the HDMI tight.... looks like little springs or something to help with the load at the connection point to try and keep the contact tight.

With that weight of cable it is always going to try and pull away.

I will try and find out more details from them about transfer speeds as each channels should do 6 GBPS or it is NOT a 18 GBPS cable


----------



## jong1

MMC57 said:


> As far a Celerity goes yes I have heard of problems but felt in theory it is actually a good design when you can just changed out the ends if they fail or need an upgrade... that is if they work at all! I just felt it was worth a shot to include a couple of runs as one possible solution.


I had a Celerity cable and it worked well until a DIY disaster broke it. Their customer service was exceptional when, right at the start, a reseller sold me old 13Gb/s stock and Celerity replaced it internationally free of charge.

However, don't get over excited about the interchangeable ends. When they replaced my miss sold cable, although it was only the ends that were 13Gb/s rated and the cable was the same they recommended and supplied both new ends and a new cable as the two are (or at least _were _3 years ago) matched. I actually tried the new ends with my old cable, which was in conduit in the wall, and it did not work. I had to replace both.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> Room is in the basement and I have two floors above with some load bearing points at various locations where I needed to run wires.
> 
> No way I was going to take a chance on playing around with support structures for a conduit.... but I have opened the ceiling so I can use the existing holes to run a the cables I mentioned above.
> 
> In the future IF I need to I will use the crown molding to run HDMI if the cables I put in now fail or do not work properly in the future.
> 
> "My conduit" will be the crown molding which I will "lightly" pin in place after the ceiling is repaired so I will have fairly easy access if I need to get in behind it.
> 
> I have never used an active cable and just do not know how long they will last vs a passive cable.
> 
> I will ask lots of questions before I do anything with the Tributaries cable.
> 
> As far a Celerity goes yes I have heard of problems but felt in theory it is actually a good design when you can just changed out the ends if they fail or need an upgrade... that is if they work at all! I just felt it was worth a shot to include a couple of runs as one possible solution.


I kinda figured this was a basement build. I think your idea of using the crown moulding is probably your best bet then. You might be able to get creative with it so removing it, or a portion there of, to replace the cabling won't be a nightmare.

My only suggestion about the Tributaries cable is not to go that route. It's gonna be a heavy cable, which makes for "hanging" it difficult and my guess is that it has a zero bend radius. Not bad for a straight connection (and that's probably how they tested the cable which is not a "real" world example of use) but you'll need a wide berth just to safely attach it to the HDMI input.

Celerity, in theory, is a good idea, but they just don't seem to last long, and replacing the connector ends can be pricey. Besides, you don't know if they are using the latest chipsets in them or not (Spectra 7) or something proprietary.


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> I kinda figured this was a basement build. I think your idea of using the crown moulding is probably your best bet then. You might be able to get creative with it so removing it, or a portion there of, to replace the cabling won't be a nightmare.
> 
> My only suggestion about the Tributaries cable is not to go that route. It's gonna be a heavy cable, which makes for "hanging" it difficult and my guess is that it has a zero bend radius. Not bad for a straight connection (and that's probably how they tested the cable which is not a "real" world example of use) but you'll need a wide berth just to safely attach it to the HDMI input.
> 
> Celerity, in theory, is a good idea, but they just don't seem to last long, and replacing the connector ends can be pricey. Besides, you don't know if they are using the latest chipsets in them or not (Spectra 7) or something proprietary.


The weight of the cable is my biggest concern right now. I have been emailing with Tributaries and they are listed by DPL to 18 GBPS they show under HDMI compliance to 10.2 GBPS because there is an additional fee from HDMI to list to the 18 GBPS level.

https://www.dpllabs.com/

The DPL website list all the manufacturers that are listed by them and also each model number to either 10.2 or 18.. this is the type of information that I like to see.

I was surprised by the number of manufacturers that are listed by DPL includes some well known names.

I have asked for a small sample of the cable Tributaries uses in order to see what I would be working with... I think the projector connection would be OK... it is the AV rack area that is always an issue with heavy cables.

I would never try and put this cable under the crown molding... that option is for future use if the cables I put in the ceiling during this renovation DO NOT work as planned down the road.

Once I get a sample and if I feel it is too "heavy" to work with I will just re-use my existing passive cables which I know work for 1080P and then install a the other active options in the ceiling for future use when I changed projectors.

I hear you loud and clear about real world installation issues with heavy cables.... once I get a sample I can decide.

It may have a zero bend radius as I really think if must be a very heavy piece of copper.

Thanks for your comments


----------



## MMC57

Have not heard back about a short piece of cable sample so not sure what that means.

Anyways.... I am thinking of installing two HDMI 2.0 cables.

One KORDZ - PRS3 

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...tive+HDMI+Datasheet+7.5m-12.5m+[190408.0].pdf

One Ruipro - 

https://www.ruipro.com/shop/hdmi-active-optical-cable-2/

The Kordz is REALLY expensive but uses the Spectra 7 you mentioned.

At the moment leaning towards just leaving the two Atlona 1.3b passive cables in place for 1080P use and "save" the two cables above for when I go to a 4K projector.

IF Ruipro and Kordz release their 8K 48 GBPS cables prior to me having to close up the ceiling then I will also install one of each of these.

As you know Ruipro is very close to the release of their 8K 48 GBPS cable and Kordz is showing their 8K 48 GBPS cable on their website saying "coming soon" and they call their version Bravo.

I have emailed Kordz to ask when the expected release date is for the new Bravo cable and if it will be certified by DLP at time if release.


----------



## GeorgeHolland

I ordered a RUIPRO 50 foot Active cable on Amazon based on the Arrow tests. The Model number the attachment referenced is B01N6HM1RL.

The model number on the box I received is B07287LTRZ and SNAOC20V102A_15.

Did I order the correct cable and why the discrepancy?

Thank you,

George Holland


----------



## Otto Pylot

GeorgeHolland said:


> I ordered a RUIPRO 50 foot Active cable on Amazon based on the Arrow tests. The Model number the attachment referenced is B01N6HM1RL.
> 
> The model number on the box I received is B07287LTRZ and SNAOC20V102A_15.
> 
> Did I order the correct cable and why the discrepancy?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> George Holland


SNAOC20V102A is the correct Ruipro part no. for their Ruipro4k cable. The other numbers are probably just Amazon numbers.


----------



## bulls

so i got the Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable - " 10 Feet | [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4 "
and it dont do no [email protected] , not on RGB , it only do [email protected] on RGB "full" 8bit not 12... wont do ycbcr444, not ycbcr422, it will do 420 @60


----------



## Otto Pylot

bulls said:


> so i got the Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable - " 10 Feet | [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4 "
> and it dont do no [email protected] , not on RGB , it only do [email protected] on RGB "full" 8bit not 12... wont do ycbcr444, not ycbcr422, it will do 420 @60


Then send it back and try another Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label). It's always possible to get a bad cable. If the replacement cable doesn't work, especially at 10', then I'd look at your equipment. I'm assuming that you don't have any sharp bends in the cable and it's not installed in such a way as to strain the HDMI input.


----------



## bulls

yep the Monoprice cable wasnt working well (Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable - " 10 Feet | [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4 ")

got just random, instead of monoprice, - Cable Matters "Premium Certified HDMI to HDMI Cable (Premium HDMI Cable) with 4K HDR Support in Black" - 15 Feet
runs 4k60 full RGB (8bit no option for 12) , and 4k30 full RGB 12bit
running my highest bitrate thru it no issue


----------



## Otto Pylot

bulls said:


> yep the Monoprice cable wasnt working well (Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable - " 10 Feet | [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4 ")
> 
> got just random, instead of monoprice, - Cable Matters "Premium Certified HDMI to HDMI Cable (Premium HDMI Cable) with 4K HDR Support in Black" - 15 Feet
> runs 4k60 full RGB (8bit no option for 12) , and 4k30 full RGB 12bit
> running my highest bitrate thru it no issue


Excellent! A certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that it will work so it's still a bit of trial and error but at least you found another Premium High Speed HDMI cable that did work. It shouldn't be this difficult to find a cable that will work but unfortunately that's what we are stuck with.


----------



## quattroman

*Best HDMI*

Hi All, I recently switched from Blue Jean Cables to Wireworld Chroma7 and the difference was so dramatic I just could not believe it. These are the best cables I have ever used, I am going full out power cords interconnects all wireworld.


----------



## Otto Pylot

quattroman said:


> Hi All, I recently switched from Blue Jean Cables to Wireworld Chroma7 and the difference was so dramatic I just could not believe it. These are the best cables I have ever used, I am going full out power cords interconnects all wireworld.


What length? AWG24 is fairly thick and stiff. How's the bend radius and is there any strain on the HDMI input. I've used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables in the past (passive only because active cables can't be certified) and performance-wise they were as good as hybrid fiber cables of the same length.


----------



## quattroman

Otto Pylot said:


> What length? AWG24 is fairly thick and stiff. How's the bend radius and is there any strain on the HDMI input. I've used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables in the past (passive only because active cables can't be certified) and performance-wise they were as good as hybrid fiber cables of the same length.


I bought 3, 2 Meter cables, 1 from the AVR to the TV, 1 4K UHD to AVR, 1 PS4 Pro to AVR. I know it seems kind of silly to have a 2 meter cable from the UHD player but the price difference was small so I figured why not have a longer one for future flexibility of applications. They are actually much more flexible than the BJC's they replaced my BJC's are a s fat as my finger. I was close to upgrading my TV and UHD player to attempt to correct issues with darker scenes that I knew could be better after hours of tweaking and calibration and these cables completely corrected all of my perceived issues and then some. This the best bang for the buck I have ever experienced, highly recommended in fact everything I got from them has been fantastic.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'the difference was so dramatic I just could not believe it'_ - I doubt anyone who understands HDMI and HDMI cables will believe it either! 

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

quattroman said:


> I bought 3, 2 Meter cables, 1 from the AVR to the TV, 1 4K UHD to AVR, 1 PS4 Pro to AVR. I know it seems kind of silly to have a 2 meter cable from the UHD player but the price difference was small so I figured why not have a longer one for future flexibility of applications. They are actually much more flexible than the BJC's they replaced my BJC's are a s fat as my finger. I was close to upgrading my TV and UHD player to attempt to correct issues with darker scenes that I knew could be better after hours of tweaking and calibration and these cables completely corrected all of my perceived issues and then some. This the best bang for the buck I have ever experienced, highly recommended in fact everything I got from them has been fantastic.


At 6' (2m) any Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) should work, unless you got a bad cable(s), which is always possible. I looked the cables up and they are very typical with their marketing and claims. "Perceived" is the operative word because the cable is just the data pipe. It just sends 1's and 0's back and forth. The cable can not make greens any greener or reds any redder. You either get the signal with no sparkles, dropouts, etc or not.


----------



## johng

I've been scanning through all 41 pages of this thread for the past few days and am only indirectly seeing posts which discuss the benefit of 6-foot (2 meter) cables vs. 3-foot (1 meter). I've been running into a problem of HDMI handshake when switching different HDMI sources through a Yamaha RX-V2070 AVR. Most of my cables from the source to the AVR are 3-foot. In addition to an Oppo 203, I have a Tivo box, a Roku, and an Android box. I have virtually zero handshake problems running the Oppo to the AVR, but if I switch to any of the other sources the handshake to the AVR fails. Often I can workaround this by manually switching the AVR to different sources until I see the AVR lights activate to indicate it senses a signal. I'm wondering if current Best Practice is to use 6-foot cables for all source components to the AVR? The signal from the AVR to my JVC projector is solid. It's switching between various 4K sources that is causing the problem. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can supply.


----------



## Otto Pylot

johng said:


> I've been scanning through all 41 pages of this thread for the past few days and am only indirectly seeing posts which discuss the benefit of 6-foot (2 meter) cables vs. 3-foot (1 meter). I've been running into a problem of HDMI handshake when switching different HDMI sources through a Yamaha RX-V2070 AVR. Most of my cables from the source to the AVR are 3-foot. In addition to an Oppo 203, I have a Tivo box, a Roku, and an Android box. I have virtually zero handshake problems running the Oppo to the AVR, but if I switch to any of the other sources the handshake to the AVR fails. Often I can workaround this by manually switching the AVR to different sources until I see the AVR lights activate to indicate it senses a signal. I'm wondering if current Best Practice is to use 6-foot cables for all source components to the AVR? The signal from the AVR to my JVC projector is solid. It's switching between various 4K sources that is causing the problem. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can supply.


I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label for authenticity) from BJC at 3', 4', and 5' lengths for a long time and never had any issues wiht 4k HDR from any of my devices. I have also tested the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at 6' lengths with no issues at all. Performance was the same as with the passive, copper, certified cables. Are you using CEC by any chance? CEC causes all kinds of issues if you don't have the same HDMI chipset versions on your connected devices. That could be a contributing factor.

I have a Yamaha A-780 as the receiver with an ATV4k and a UHD-BD player connected. ARC/CEC is disabled (I don't need ARC or eARC) and I use a Harmony remote to control the HTS.

My rule of thumb is that if your cable run is under 20', then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work just fine. For runs over 20', I recommend a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k). The cables are expensive but they do get very favorable reviews from AVS members who use them. You also need to consider bend radius and strain on the HDMI inputs as well.


----------



## Joe Fernand

johns - how long is the cable run between the AVR and the Projector?

Joe


----------



## johng

Joe Fernand said:


> johns - how long is the cable run between the AVR and the Projector?
> 
> Joe


25'. I'm using a Monoprice premium certified 4K cable.


----------



## Joe Fernand

25' - ought to be fine, though you can still run into issues with higher bandwidth signals. You could try dropping the Sources to 1080p and see if the handshake issues remain.

Display device(s) - do you also have a TV connected to the AVR, if yes it is always worth trying to toggle a dual HDMI Output AVR between HDMI Out A, B and A+B to see if that has any affect.

Source direct - do all of the Source devices handshake properly when you bypass the AVR?

Joe


----------



## johng

Joe Fernand said:


> 25' - ought to be fine, though you can still run into issues with higher bandwidth signals. You could try dropping the Sources to 1080p and see if the handshake issues remain.
> 
> Display device(s) - do you also have a TV connected to the AVR, if yes it is always worth trying to toggle a dual HDMI Output AVR between HDMI Out A, B and A+B to see if that has any affect.
> 
> Source direct - do all of the Source devices handshake properly when you bypass the AVR?
> 
> Joe


I've tried the A & B outputs and found no difference. However I have not tried the direct source approach. I'll give it a try and report back. It'll be a few days.


----------



## Joe Fernand

A and B Out should be identical - the trick is to only have A or B set as the 'active' Output where you have two dissimilar Display devices connected to the AVR.

Hopefully your tests are trouble free when you go direct!

Joe


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> .... I have also tested the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at 6' lengths with no issues at all.


Ruipro 6 feet? Shortest length I can find on their site is 6 meters.

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> Ruipro 6 feet? Shortest length I can find on their site is 6 meters.
> 
> Pip


Ruipro specially made the cables for me so I could demonstrate that active hybrid fiber cables would have no issues at the shorter lengths (2m). There were some folks who said that active cables


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro specially made the cables for me so I could demonstrate that active hybrid fiber cables would have no issues at the shorter lengths (2m). There were some folks who said that active cables


----------



## Otto Pylot

I am far from an expert. I just read, research, and talk to lots of people. I do get corrected from time to time which is ok because I just incorporate the correction into my notes so that I can try to be as "factual" as is possible with my posts.

A common factor that I've been seeing is the Denon receiver. They make great receivers but they seem to be a common factor in a lot of issues. If you can get what you want with bypassing the Denon, then there's your answer. My ATV4k is connected to a Yamaha A-780 receiver and it has no issues at all passing HDR (DV or HDR10) to my LG 65 C8 OLED panel. The same for my UHD/BD player (LG UBK90).  My cable runs are only 4' so I previously used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables with no issues. Currently I still use the 6' Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables that I've been testing for Ruipro and the performance is the same. It could also be your TCL and the way it is communicating with the Denon.

How do you have your ATV setup?

Make sure that all of your HDMI connected devices are using the same HDMI hardware versions (HDMI 2.0).

Not a lot help I know .


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> I am far from an expert. I just read, research, and talk to lots of people. I do get corrected from time to time which is ok because I just incorporate the correction into my notes so that I can try to be as "factual" as is possible with my posts.
> 
> A common factor that I've been seeing is the Denon receiver. They make great receivers but they seem to be a common factor in a lot of issues. If you can get what you want with bypassing the Denon, then there's your answer. My ATV4k is connected to a Yamaha A-780 receiver and it has no issues at all passing HDR (DV or HDR10) to my LG 65 C8 OLED panel. The same for my UHD/BD player (LG UBK90). My cable runs are only 4' so I previously used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables with no issues. Currently I still use the 6' Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables that I've been testing for Ruipro and the performance is the same. It could also be your TCL and the way it is communicating with the Denon.
> 
> How do you have your ATV setup?
> 
> Make sure that all of your HDMI connected devices are using the same HDMI hardware versions (HDMI 2.0).
> 
> Not a lot help I know .


Thanks. Everything is HDMI 2.0. It's not solely the Denon, as everything works perfectly through the Denon to my projector. It's only through the Denon to the TV that doesn't work.

Later tonight, I have an old Yamaha I can swap in to see what happens.

Thank you,

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> Thanks. Everything is HDMI 2.0. It's not solely the Denon, as everything works perfectly through the Denon to my projector. It's only through the Denon to the TV that doesn't work.
> 
> Later tonight, I have an old Yamaha I can swap in to see what happens.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Pip


How long are your cable runs? If the going thru the Denon to your projector with the same cables works, and it doesn't going to the TCL, it could be a setting in the TCL somewhere.

I don't use ARC/CEC for anything in my setup. Not that that may be your problem but sometimes CEC can cause issues with input switching. My ATV4k settings are:

Enable Dolby Vision
Format - 4k SDR @60Hz
HDMI Output - YCbCr Chroma - 4:2:0
Match Content - Range & Frame Rate
Match Dynamic Range - On
Match Frame Rate - On


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> How long are your cable runs? If the going thru the Denon to your projector with the same cables works, and it doesn't going to the TCL, it could be a setting in the TCL somewhere.
> 
> I don't use ARC/CEC for anything in my setup. Not that that may be your problem but sometimes CEC can cause issues with input switching. My ATV4k settings are......



Thanks again Otto.

And yes, they are the exact same cables that work fine from Denon to projector, and fine directly from device to TV. I tested every Certified Hi Speed cable I own - along with the Ruipro, and to eliminate all possible variables I tested everything with the exact same two cables, as well as tested every HDMI input and output. On the Denon every possible combination of input/output, and all three inputs on the TCL. 

I have posted on the TCL thread. AFAIK all the TCL settings are correct. More empirically, the most challenging bandwidth I can send *directly from my devices to the TCL* works perfectly.

The ATV (regardless of settings) works perfectly directly to the TV, and through the Denon to the projector. 

I avoid CEC and ARC like the plague. They are disabled in all components.

All of these tests work perfectly through the Denon to the projector. They all work perfectly directly from device to the TV. It's only when going through the Denon to the TV - then I can not pass any HDR.

Thanks so much for your efforts - much appreciated!

Piip


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> How long....


Per your request I'm responding over here.



Otto Pylot said:


> You've posted the same question in the HDMI forum. It's best to keep your questions, and follow-ups to one forum as it makes it easier for us to help you and for others to Search if they have the same issues.


Noted. And thank you so much again.

I'll leave the ATV thread now, but even you yourself suggested a setting in the TCL. This is obviously a complicated issue to have so many people still valiantly helping.

The problem must be with the Denon, the TV, or the cables or HDMI chain between them. Respectfully, I think the Denon and TCL threads may be very helpful to finding an explanation.

Thanks again,

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Have you tried a different HDMI input from the Denon to the TCL? Maybe it's a defective HDMI input.


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> Have you tried a different HDMI input from the Denon to the TCL? Maybe it's a defective HDMI input.


Good idea. If only. 

From two posts above: "I tested everything with the exact same two cables, _as well as tested every HDMI input and output_. On the Denon every possible combination of input/output, _*and all three inputs on the TCL*_

Please keep trying. I'll post a reiteration with even more detail. 

I did try to do my troubleshooting very carefully. But my best hope is that someone will find an error in my methods, and there will be an easy solution.

Thanks for playing whack-a-mole. I wish it was more fun.

Pip


----------



## Pip

In hope of clarity:

Cables: to be more specific - five Monoprice Premium Certified Hi Speed (with official hologram tags): (two 3ft, one 6ft, one 10ft, one 15ft) and one Ruipro 6 meter. I tried every cable individually, (directly from both 4K sources to the TV), and in combination with each of the three long cables (10', 15' and 6M) to the display.

To reiterate the problem - (with any combination of these 6 cables, through every input and output combination of the Denon, through every input on the TCL): Both 4K sources, (at any 4K HDR settings) work perfectly directly from device to the TV. They work perfectly through the Denon to the projector.; but when going through the Denon to the TV, I can not pass a full HDR signal.

I hope this is clearer, and I hope someone can find my mistake.

Thanks everyone,

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

What's the distance from the Denon to the pj and from the Denon to the TCL?


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> What's the distance from the Denon to the pj and from the Denon to the TCL?


Cable run distances: 

Denon to TCL - 5'; Cables tested: 6', 10' 15' Monoprice Premium Certified Hi Speed, and 12M Ruipro.

Denon to JVC - 32'; Cables tested 12M Ruipro, 25' BJC, and 35' Blue Rigger

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> Cable run distances:
> 
> Denon to TCL - 5'; Cables tested: 6', 10' 15' Monoprice Premium Certified Hi Speed, and 12M Ruipro.
> 
> Denon to JVC - 32'; Cables tested 12M Ruipro, 25' BJC, and 35' Blue Rigger
> 
> Pip


Distance isn't your problem. Cables aren't your problem. It's a setting somewhere. Review your settings carefully on the Denon.


----------



## sasquatch1287

Hello,

I just bought a 10M RuiPro from Amazon because I'm having handshake issues with my equipment. One question I do have that I don't see on the listing is whether or not it is CL2/3 rated. Any chance anyone knows as I plan to run it in-wall. Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> Distance isn't your problem. Cables aren't your problem. It's a setting somewhere. Review your settings carefully on the Denon.


Otto: further testing.

I’ll post this here as it seems there are bandwidth issues. There are also specific questions for the TCL and Denon threads. 

To recap: AppleTv 4K and Panasonic 820, switched through Denon 4300 to TCL RS615 and JVC RS500.

The problem: Neither the ATV nor the 820, when going *through the Denon to the TV*, can pass a full HDR signal.

*But*, both 4K sources, (*at any and all 4K HDR settings*) work perfectly *directly from device to the TV*, and work perfectly *through the Denon to the projector*.



Spoiler



I tested every input/output combination on the Denon, and every input on the TCL. Results never changed. I changed TCL HDMI input mode from Auto to 2.0. Results never changed. I turned off all Video conversion in the Denon. Results never changed.

I think we can safely say it’s not the cables. As detailed earlier - six Premium Certified Hi Speed (all with official hologram tags) from Monoprice and CableMatters, and one Ruipro. *All* of these cables tested perfectly individually (direct to device) and in any combination from the Denon to the projector.



For my last two tests I tried swapping a Yamaha 850 (HDMI 2.1) for the Denon, and (at Claw’s suggestion) putting the TCL in computer mode (which has drawbacks)

Every test passed to the projector, so we will set that aside.

“TCL” alone means not in computer mode. Computer mode is stated when engaged.


Observations:

When connected directly to the TCL, both devices pass all resolutions - without the need for computer mode, although both devices fail when going through the Denon.

Both devices pass all resolutions through the Denon to the TCL when in computer mode.

The 820 passes all resolutions through the Yamaha without the need for computer mode, although this fails through the Denon.

Without computer mode, the ATV fails through either receiver. It passes only directly, and with computer mode.

My guesses:

The fact that everything passes (directly) to the TCL without computer mode (and to the projector), seems to indicate a bandwidth problem. The Denon seems to be somehow consuming some bandwidth which the non-computer mode TCL seems to need. The computer mode doesn’t seem to need this bandwidth, and the projector doesn’t need it.

Everything passes from the 820 through the Yamaha, so the Yamaha appears to be consuming less bandwidth than the Denon, but even the Yamaha is consuming too much for the ATV.

It *looks* like a bandwidth problem. The ATV, when testing Dolby Vision through the Denon, *looks* like it’s about to make it. I see the DV logo, and correct DV red splash screen, then it goes blank and fails.

The green/pink failures from the 820 always look correct for a split second, and then the signal fails to green/pink.

Thanks for your help,

Pip

Detailed test results:



Spoiler



AppleTv:
4:2:0 or 4:2:2 made no difference. It either passed HDR or it failed and limited to 4K SDR.

ATV directly to TCL - passed HDR
ATV through Denon to TCL computer mode -passed HDR

ATV through Denon to TCL - failed HDR
ATV through Yamaha to TCL - failed HDR

Panasonic 820: 
All tests were at 4:4:4/60. HDR2020 or SDR2020 made no difference. 24P Off and Auto did change results

In addition to the 820 directly to the TCL, there were two other tests where the 820 passed any an all HDR signals:

820 through Denon to TCL computer mode - passed all HDR resolutions
820 through Yamaha to TCL (no computer mode) - passed all HDR resolutions

820 failure details: (it only ever failed through the Denon to the TCL)

HDR or SDR/2020 24P Off:
Netflix - no image at all
UHD disc playback - green/pink image
Prime HDR content - green/pink image

HDR or SDR/2020 24P Auto:
Netflix - no image at all
UHD disc playpack - passed
Prime HDR content -	green/pink image


----------



## Otto Pylot

sasquatch1287 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just bought a 10M RuiPro from Amazon because I'm having handshake issues with my equipment. One question I do have that I don't see on the listing is whether or not it is CL2/3 rated. Any chance anyone knows as I plan to run it in-wall. Thanks in advance for any help!


CL2/CL3 is usually used for high voltage wiring. CL2 is rated for 250V and CL3 is rated for 300V. CL ratings don't reduce smoke and gases but do reduce the possibility of shock. The CL2/CL3 rating for the Ruipro cable jackets are still in progress the last time I checked with them. Are you going to run the cable in a conduit?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> Otto: further testing.
> 
> I’ll post this here as it seems there are bandwidth issues. There are also specific questions for the TCL and Denon threads.
> 
> To recap: AppleTv 4K and Panasonic 820, switched through Denon 4300 to TCL RS615 and JVC RS500.
> 
> The problem: Neither the ATV nor the 820, when going *through the Denon to the TV*, can pass a full HDR signal.
> 
> *But*, both 4K sources, (*at any and all 4K HDR settings*) work perfectly *directly from device to the TV*, and work perfectly *through the Denon to the projector*.


This is a head scratcher. It almost sounds like there's an issue with the TCL handling the signal when coming from the Denon but that's just a guess. Hopefully someone with experience with either the TCL or the Denon will have better ideas.


----------



## sasquatch1287

Otto Pylot said:


> sasquatch1287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I just bought a 10M RuiPro from Amazon because I'm having handshake issues with my equipment. One question I do have that I don't see on the listing is whether or not it is CL2/3 rated. Any chance anyone knows as I plan to run it in-wall. Thanks in advance for any help!
> 
> 
> 
> CL2/CL3 is usually used for high voltage wiring. CL2 is rated for 250V and CL3 is rated for 300V. CL ratings don't reduce smoke and gases but do reduce the possibility of shock. The CL2/CL3 rating for the Ruipro cable jackets are still in progress the last time I checked with them. Are you going to run the cable in a conduit?
Click to expand...

I wasn’t planning to run a conduit. It’s in why I call a ******* home theater. 90% of the room is studs, but about 10 feet of the cable will be behind drywall with insulation also in the wall. Will this cause an issue by not being rated? 

Pulling the cable wind stress it as I can pop the drywall panel off to run it.

Thanks for the help and let me know your thoughts.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sasquatch1287 said:


> I wasn’t planning to run a conduit. It’s in why I call a ******* home theater. 90% of the room is studs, but about 10 feet of the cable will be behind drywall with insulation also in the wall. Will this cause an issue by not being rated?
> 
> Pulling the cable wind stress it as I can pop the drywall panel off to run it.
> 
> Thanks for the help and let me know your thoughts.


The idea of using conduit is to make it easier and safer to pull cable. Chances are you will be changing cables in the future again so using a conduit makes that process a whole lot easier. Bend radius is also very important so the conduit makes that process easier as well. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. You could also lay in some extra cabling like solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) for future use if needed. 

HDMI is (LV) low voltage so you probably won't have any issues as far as CL2/CL3 goes. You'll probably get different opinions so do some research and use your best judgement. 

Low voltage ratings are usually given as CL/CM/CMG. CL is used for audio/video and CM/CMG is used for ethernet. Both types of cables have passed the “vertical tray flame test” which means that they don’t normally spread flames more than 8’. The cables can be installed in walls and ceilings and you don’t have to worry about plenums or risers for home use. Most home wiring is done with cables in the CL/CM category. I'll have to check with Ruipro to see what ratings they have received, if any.

I would lay the cable on the floor and thoroughly test it out before final installation just to make sure it's going to meet your needs.


----------



## Pip

claw said:


> The Dolby Vision tests that failed with the Denon could be because the ATV4K and/or UB820 is sending Low Latency Dolby Vision (Player Led). I am pretty sure that TCL applied a firmware update to support LLDV for XBox and/or ATV. I don't think my Denon x4200w will pass LLDV, perhaps your 4300 is the same.


Claw has figured it out! I now believe this was exactly the problem. It explains everything. 

An updated TCL must support LLDV (in any mode) which is why direct always worked (no 4300 blocking LLDV in between). 
The projector always worked because it only has HDR (it's not asking for Dolby Vision).
Everything worked through the TCL Computer mode probably because that mode negotiates properly without LLDV.

My 4300 was not passing LLDV, but - there was an update that now supports it. I ran the update, and presto - the 4300 now passes everything to the TCL without the need for computer mode!

I had automatic updates off on the Denon. (There were some updates which bricked quite a few units.) But let everyone learn from my mistakes, before you spend hours of time troubleshooting, make sure every component is up to date. 

Thanks to all who helped,

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ glad you go it working. Checking for current updates on all connected devices is something that we assumed you had done. Sorry for not suggesting it sooner.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sasquatch1287 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just bought a 10M RuiPro from Amazon because I'm having handshake issues with my equipment. One question I do have that I don't see on the listing is whether or not it is CL2/3 rated. Any chance anyone knows as I plan to run it in-wall. Thanks in advance for any help!


I just heard back from Ruipro and their cables use CL2 rated material but they have not yet received the final certification.


----------



## cemo62

Hello friends which one is best for *50 feet? (15 meter)* I need cable for UHD 4K 

*RUIPRO 
*https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-4K60H...&s=gateway&sprefix=ruipro,aps,596&sr=8-3&th=1

or

*WIREWORLD SPHERE HDMI 

*

http://www.emavihifi.com/web_20117_1/product_tree_focus.aspx?category_id=966&product_id=9953


----------



## Joe Fernand

Assuming both cables 'work' in your system the delivered performance will be identical - the trick is often to get the cable to work, we have supplied many of the RuiPro4K cables and very few issues with them.

Joe


----------



## Panson

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent! A certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that it will work so it's still a bit of trial and error but at least you found another Premium High Speed HDMI cable that did work. It shouldn't be this difficult to find a cable that will work but unfortunately that's what we are stuck with.


Right on, Otto. 

In our case, smooth and thin doesn't work due to resident cat. 

Fortunately, cable competition is good now, so high performance, durability, reasonable cost are all available in a cable. My straight runs are 4' to 6', so nothing complicated. So far, so good. No drama, 'cept for an occasional missed or changed setting, as you've pointed out with other cases. 

Thanks for your continued contribution to AVS.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*Copper vs Glass Fiber..... Short vs Long Distance Cable runs*

The Ruipro4K HDMI cables are great for long distance HDMI cable runs because the signal loss per metre is so much smaller than it is for a conventional copper cable run. I was surprised to see that the Ruipro4K cables max out at 18.2Gbps speed though. Very surprised.

So for distances above 10m you're best off buying a Ruipro4K cable.

But for distances below 10m there are more conventional copper cables that provide speeds of 21Gbps, 27Gbps and 48Gbps, all of which will actually deliver a better performance picture to your screen if your equipment is HDMI 2.0 enabled.

So if your cable run is above 10m I would recommend the Ruipro4K HDMI cable as it can deliver higher speeds than conventional copper cables at this distance all day long, but if you have a cable run of less than 10m I would recommend looking for a 21Gbps, 27Gbps or 48Gbps copper cable option as they offer better performance at this shorter distance and are actually cheaper too.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> The Ruipro4K HDMI cables are great for long distance HDMI cable runs because the signal loss per metre is so much smaller than it is for a conventional copper cable run. I was surprised to see that the Ruipro4K cables max out at 18.2Gbps speed though. Very surprised.
> 
> So for distances above 10m you're best off buying a Ruipro4K cable.
> 
> But for distances below 10m there are more conventional copper cables that provide speeds of 21Gbps, 27Gbps and 48Gbps, all of which will actually deliver a better performance picture to your screen if your equipment is HDMI 2.0 enabled.
> 
> So if your cable run is above 10m I would recommend the Ruipro4K HDMI cable as it can deliver higher speeds than conventional copper cables at this distance all day long, but if you have a cable run of less than 10m I would recommend looking for a 21Gbps, 27Gbps or 48Gbps copper cable option as they offer better performance at this shorter distance and are actually cheaper too.


You keep posting the same stuff on the AV Forum as well. There are no cables that have been confirmed to reliably achieve these odd bandwidths (21Gbps and 27Gbps) that you keep posting about. And there are no 48Gbps passive, copper cables at 30' that have been independently confirmed to pass 48Gbps. 

Please provide links to your 21Gbps, 27Gbps, or 48Gbps cable (other than the highly suspect Belkin cable). Unless you can get the actual test data sheets for the cables you purchase you're just going on what the cable mfr indicates in their marketing, which as we have seen, can be very misleading.

The hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro4k) are tested by Simplay Labs, which is an ATC. But because the cables are active, and HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables, they can not be labeled as certified with the QR label of authenticity. The cables are meant to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications so that's why they are rated for 18Gbps. The Ruipro8k cables are still in the verification process and when released they will meet the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications (48Gbps), provided they are installed between devices that have fully compliant HDMI 2.1 hardware (chipsets).

I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables (passive copper) on my system and then tested Ruipro4k cables (active, hybrid fiber), for Ruipro, and they both performed the same at the same lengths.

Up to 25', Premium High Speed HDMI cables is what is recommended for 4k HDR. Over 25', hybrid fiber cables is what we recommend for 4k HDR. If you get no sparkles, drop outs, or other visual anomalies, you're getting the best pq you can. Period.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

It sounds like we are coming at this from different perspectives, and I get the impression you are a fellow engineer?

You're effectively saying that unless you see a test report from an independent test laboratory like Simplay Labs then you won't believe any other kind of evidence you are shown regarding the speed of HDMI cables. Fair enough, you are entitled to that opinion and I imagine you may be an engineer that has to take a more cautious approach to their work, perhaps you own an installation company where you have to 100% prove that what you install in each job is going to work before you buy and install it because if you make a mistake then your reputation which you build your business off could quickly go to ruins, so I respect this.

I work in F1 in more of a creative role, which is a completely different type of job where it is ok to ignore datasheets and draw information from real world testing data whether that test data initially seems to bend the laws of convention or not, because at the end of the day real world results are real world results, and once you get a better result just once you then know it is possible all the time if you understand what is going on and bend that to your advantage. And that is just what I have done here. I have tested 18Gbps cables and they did not give me the picture quality I wanted, so then I purchased 27Gbps cables and 48Gbps cables and performed real world tests with those, and from all those tests I've shown repeatedly in my real world setup that 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables perform better than 18Gbps cables every time when connected to HDMI 2.0 ports at either end, (source and sink ends) on my PC to TV setup.

18Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:0 picture.
27Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
48Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.

I appreciate that may not make sense to you based on everything you have learnt before and what I believe your job role to be, but those are the facts and I cannot simply deny them just because it goes against what you have seen before.

The only logical reason for these test results is that HDMI 2.0 ports are capable of faster transfer speeds than 18Gbps HDMI cables, and by using a faster HDMI cable that's "designed for" but maybe not yet "independently tested at Simplay Labs" these higher speed cables are working fast enough to give the better picture quality seen in my test results above.

Sometimes you've just got to test something and if it works better than what you were using before carry on using it without necessarily knowing to the nth degree exactly what is going on and that can make you more competitive than the next person which is what F1 is all about.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> It sounds like we are coming at this from different perspectives, and I get the impression you are a fellow engineer?
> 
> You're effectively saying that unless you see a test report from an independent test laboratory like Simplay Labs then you won't believe any other kind of evidence you are shown regarding the speed of HDMI cables. Fair enough, you are entitled to that opinion and I imagine you may be an engineer that has to take a more cautious approach to their work, perhaps you own an installation company where you have to 100% prove that what you install in each job is going to work before you buy and install it because if you make a mistake then your reputation which you build your business off could quickly go to ruins, so I respect this.
> 
> I work in F1 in more of a creative role, which is a completely different type of job where it is ok to ignore datasheets and draw information from real world testing data whether that test data initially seems to bend the laws of convention or not, because at the end of the day real world results are real world results, and once you get a better result just once you then know it is possible all the time if you understand what is going on and bend that to your advantage. And that is just what I have done here. I have tested 18Gbps cables and they did not give me the picture quality I wanted, so then I purchased 27Gbps cables and 48Gbps cables and performed real world tests with those, and from all those tests I've shown repeatedly in my real world setup that 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables perform better than 18Gbps cables every time when connected to HDMI 2.0 ports at either end, (source and sink ends) on my PC to TV setup.
> 
> 18Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:0 picture.
> 27Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
> 48Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
> 
> I appreciate that may not make sense to you based on everything you have learnt before and what I believe your job role to be, but those are the facts and I cannot simply deny them just because it goes against what you have seen before.
> 
> The only logical reason for these test results is that HDMI 2.0 ports are capable of faster transfer speeds than 18Gbps HDMI cables, and by using a faster HDMI cable that's "designed for" but maybe not yet "independently tested at Simplay Labs" these higher speed cables are working fast enough to give the better picture quality seen in my test results above.
> 
> Sometimes you've just got to test something and if it works better than what you were using before carry on using it without necessarily knowing to the nth degree exactly what is going on and that can make you more competitive than the next person which is what F1 is all about.


The HDMI 2.0 standard is just that, a standard. The maximum bandwidth allowable is 18Gbps. Anything faster than that and it is out of spec. The chipsets determine transfer rate, error correction within spec, etc. The cable just passes the data. It can not increase the bandwidth so it doesn’t make any difference what the cable is rated at as long as it meets spec. We would still like to see your link to the magical 22Gbps/27Gbps cable. If you think you get better PQ with your 27Gbps cable because you are getting more 1’s and 0’s than an 18Gbps cable then that’s your perception but it has no basis in reality. Enjoy your cables.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*Test Results Speak for Themselves*



Otto Pylot said:


> The HDMI 2.0 standard is just that, a standard. The maximum bandwidth allowable is 18Gbps. Anything faster than that and it is out of spec. The chipsets determine transfer rate, error correction within spec, etc. The cable just passes the data. It can not increase the bandwidth so it doesn’t make any difference what the cable is rated at as long as it meets spec. We would still like to see your link to the magical 22Gbps/27Gbps cable. If you think you get better PQ with your 27Gbps cable because you are getting more 1’s and 0’s than an 18Gbps cable then that’s your perception but it has no basis in reality. Enjoy your cables.


Hi Otto, it would be good to understand who I am speaking to. I've been pretty clear what my background in engineering is but nothing in your profile states anything about you, your level of experience or technical knowledge. So far the only thing I know about you is that you don't believe it's possible to get a better picture from a HDMI 2.0 setup using any HDMI cables rated over 18Gbps despite the clear and concise test results I've openly shared with you and the community.

This forum should be a source of information, constantly updated with the latest information so that people can come and learn about the subject and keep up to date with latest information. It should not be a place where people come to post links to products and I hope the site management is actively monitoring and discouraging this behaviour so this site remains a learning resource.

As a fully qualified engineer I have performed relevant testing and I've made my results very clear for all to see. When used with a HDMI 2.0 setup the following cables provided me with the following picture results:

18Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:0 picture.
27Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
48Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.

Or in summary, every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable ever tested from any brand always gave better picture results than any 18Gbps HDMI cable ever tested whether those 18Gbps cables were Certified or not.

I'm not saying go and buy a 27Gbps or 48Gbps cable, and I'm not promoting any specific cables either. I'm merely saying those are the results I got with those speed cables so I'm sure that's very useful information for others who are looking for ways to try and get a better picture if they are unhappy with what their 18Gbps HDMI cable is providing or simply want to see if they can get a better picture.

So if you don't believe me and want to test for yourself then I suggest you simply purchase any 27Gbps or 48Gbps HDMI cable and test it for yourself and if it works for you then great, but if it doesn't then simply return the cable for a full refund. You've got nothing to lose but everything to gain, so I suggest if you've no experience performing these tests with these higher speed cables then you take the time to at least test this before making judgement.

For interest sake, my setup uses a high performance graphics card on a PC and that is connected directly to an OLED TV via a 3m long HDMI cable. And the PC gives me higher performance graphics options to choose from the moment I attach a higher performance 27Gbps or 48Gbps HDMI cable. When I remove this cable and replace it with any 18Gbps HDMI cable those better performance picture options disappear. Somehow the PC knows what the best picture options available for each cable is once the HDMI cable has been attached to the TV!


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Hi Otto, it would be good to understand who I am speaking to. I've been pretty clear what my background in engineering is but nothing in your profile states anything about you, your level of experience or technical knowledge. So far the only thing I know about you is that you don't believe it's possible to get a better picture from a HDMI 2.0 setup using any HDMI cables rated over 18Gbps despite the clear and concise test results I've openly shared with you and the community.
> 
> This forum should be a source of information, constantly updated with the latest information so that people can come and learn about the subject and keep up to date with latest information. It should not be a place where people come to post links to products and I hope the site management is actively monitoring and discouraging this behaviour so this site remains a learning resource.
> 
> As a fully qualified engineer I have performed relevant testing and I've made my results very clear for all to see. When used with a HDMI 2.0 setup the following cables provided me with the following picture results:
> 
> 18Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:0 picture.
> 27Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
> 48Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
> 
> Or in summary, every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable ever tested from any brand always gave better picture results than any 18Gbps HDMI cable ever tested whether those 18Gbps cables were Certified or not.
> 
> I'm not saying go and buy a 27Gbps or 48Gbps cable, and I'm not promoting any specific cables either. I'm merely saying those are the results I got with those speed cables so I'm sure that's very useful information for others who are looking for ways to try and get a better picture if they are unhappy with what their 18Gbps HDMI cable is providing or simply want to see if they can get a better picture.
> 
> So if you don't believe me and want to test for yourself then I suggest you simply purchase any 27Gbps or 48Gbps HDMI cable and test it for yourself and if it works for you then great, but if it doesn't then simply return the cable for a full refund. You've got nothing to lose but everything to gain, so I suggest if you've no experience performing these tests with these higher speed cables then you take the time to at least test this before making judgement.
> 
> For interest sake, my setup uses a high performance graphics card on a PC and that is connected directly to an OLED TV via a 3m long HDMI cable. And the PC gives me higher performance graphics options to choose from the moment I attach a higher performance 27Gbps or 48Gbps HDMI cable. When I remove this cable and replace it with any 18Gbps HDMI cable those better performance picture options disappear. Somehow the PC knows what the best picture options available for each cable is once the HDMI cable has been attached to the TV!


All we ask is that you post links to the cables you've tested so if someone else here wants to attempt to verify your results they can. Links to products are done all of the time. My cable run is 3m and I can achieve the same results as you with Premium High Speed HDMI cables and Ruipro4k cables to my 65 C8 OLED panel. I have not seen a "27Gbps" cable from a reputable source here.


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> I've been pretty clear what my background in engineering is


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> For interest sake, my setup uses a high performance graphics card


Make/model?




> ...on a PC


 
make/model?




> ...and that is connected directly


 
How?




> ...to an OLED TV


make/model?




> ... via a 3m long HDMI cable.


make/model?




> And the PC gives me higher performance graphics options to choose from the moment I attach a higher performance 27Gbps or 48Gbps HDMI cable. When I remove this cable and replace it with any 18Gbps HDMI cable those better performance picture options disappear. Somehow the PC knows what the best picture options available for each cable is once the HDMI cable has been attached to the TV!


Darned smart PC!! 
Make/model?


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Ratman, your profile says you're 65. I'm impressed you know how to use forums! what did you do as a job before you retired?

I made my PC to my own spec hand picking all the parts I wanted to make it from. But literally any decent graphics card with a HDMI 2.0 port will work so make/model isn't important, the PC specifics of make/model etc really don't matter so long as the motherboard has a 16x PCI slot capable of working with the graphics card which most motherboards do, and the TV is an LG OLED55B8PLA 55". Computers are pretty smart these days when you download the right software, they know exactly what information they're sending and receiving, and it appears when the HDMI port of a computer handshakes with another HDMI port via a HDMI cable the PC knows how fast that HDMI link is. Clever stuff and easy to setup in the settings of your operating system and the graphics card control panel.

Definitely more options on a PC than on a media box and am surprised more people don't use their graphics cards to upscale and enhance lower resolution lower bitrate video files to give a better picture than what the on board TV graphics chips can do


----------



## jong1

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> As a fully qualified engineer I have performed relevant testing and I've made my results very clear for all to see. When used with a HDMI 2.0 setup the following cables provided me with the following picture results:
> 
> 18Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:0 picture.
> 27Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.
> 48Gbps cables always maxed out at a 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture.


Unfortunately, all your testing has proved is whatever "18Gb/s" cables you were testing did not meet their advertised speed which, unless they were Premium Certified, is actually quite common. Even if they were Premium Certified, it is not unknown for them to fail, as individual cables are not certified, only a design/model, based on sample testing.

"4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2" (better called 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2, since it does not need to be HDR) only requires 17.82Gb/s (https://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdr) and no HDMI 2.0 source device will attempt to send more, whatever the theoretical bandwidth of the cable it is connected to.

It is possible that you may be able to make your PC card deliver over 18Gb/s (eg. send 4K/60 12-bit 4:4:4) but that would be outside of the HDMI 2.0 spec, not what any HDMI 2.0 conformant source would attempt and 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 will always require only 17.82Gb/s


----------



## Ratman

Thanks for taking interest viewing my profile. 
Thanks for noting my age.
What do you do?
What is your age?
Why won't you answer questions with specifics?


What are the magic cables you rave about?


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> All we ask is that you post links to the cables you've tested so if someone else here wants to attempt to verify your results they can. Links to products are done all of the time. My cable run is 3m and I can achieve the same results as you with Premium High Speed HDMI cables and Ruipro4k cables to my 65 C8 OLED panel. I have not seen a "27Gbps" cable from a reputable source here.


What IS good, is he is not claiming some "mystical sauce" that improves his video quality when using these >18Gb/s cables. He is saying clearly that he needed those cables to fully pass HDMI 2.0 conformant signals, hence to pass 17.82Gb/s. So, what he _has _proved is that his "18Gb/s" cables were, in fact, not and his "27Gb/s" and "48Gb/s" cables (whatever they were) could, like any working Premium Certified or 18Gb/s-capable fiber cable, pass 18Gb/s.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Thanks for taking interest viewing my profile.
> Thanks for noting my age.
> What do you do?
> What is your age?
> Why won't you answer questions with specifics?
> 
> 
> What are the magic cables you rave about?


Even though Ratman certainly doesn't need me to defend him, your comment about his age and abilities was totally uncalled for. 

We are wondering what you are trying to sell because you keep posting the same information in multiple threads here on AVS and in one thread (at least that I can see) on the AV Forums (UK equivalent of AVS) using a different user name.

From your post on AV Forums: _The higher quality pictures require more data to produce which means more 1's and 0's and that's why the faster HDMI cables allow for a better picture. The maximum data speed of the HDMI 2.0 ports is 22Gbps so the best picture you can get on devices with HDMI 2.0 ports will be a 22Gbps picture. So why would you buy an 18Gbps cable to get a 22Gbps picture, it makes no sense as the 18Gbps cable is not designed to be fast enough to carry all these extra 1's and 0's._


----------



## Ratman

Ratman said:


> Why won't you answer questions with specifics?
> 
> 
> What are the magic cables you rave about?





Otto Pylot said:


> Even though Ratman certainly doesn't need me to defend him, your comment about his age and abilities was totally uncalled for.


Thanks Otto. No problem... my age is irrelevant to the discussion. 
*and thankful to have made it this long!* 


I'd like to see "specific" information from HDMI_4K_60Hz as requested.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Thanks Otto. No problem... my age is irrelevant to the discussion.
> *and thankful to have made it this long!*
> 
> 
> I'd like to see "specific" information from HDMI_4K_60Hz as requested.


If interested, he goes by AWCrypt on the AV Forums in the Cables and Switches area.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*Interesting!*



jong1 said:


> Unfortunately, all your testing has proved is whatever "18Gb/s" cables you were testing did not meet their advertised speed which, unless they were Premium Certified, is actually quite common. *Even if they were Premium Certified, it is not unknown for them to fail, as individual cables are not certified, only a design/model, based on sample testing*.
> 
> "4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2" (better called 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2, since it does not need to be HDR) only requires 17.82Gb/s (https://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdr) and no HDMI 2.0 source device will attempt to send more, whatever the theoretical bandwidth of the cable it is connected to.
> 
> It is possible that you may be able to make your PC card deliver over 18Gb/s (eg. send 4K/60 12-bit 4:4:4) but that would be outside of the HDMI 2.0 spec, not what any HDMI 2.0 conformant source would attempt and 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 will always require only 17.82Gb/s



That's interesting and makes sense. I would have hoped every cable had passed a performance quality inspection when it was manufactured though, but maybe not if the manufacturers are using the certification to prove the design and are then choosing to save money on performance inspection costs by simply not doing that performance testing because they think the certification means they'll never get quality problems? I know you'd never get away with that in the UK but maybe in Taiwan and China etc this lack of inspection is deemed ok and maybe even common practice to save money? That then makes sense why every cost saving effort I've known in Aerospace and Motorsport projects where the accountants have tried to save money by having parts manufactured in these cheaper countries has ultimately resulted in poor part quality resulting in huge production problems and typically several months of delays to projects before the decision was ultimately made to finally bring manufacture back to more local machine shops back in the UK.

When I work through the maths theory myself I keep reaching the answer that 17.92Gbps supports 4K 60Hz 12bit 4:4:4 so I'm not sure what's going on now because none of the cables, not even the 48Gbps cables give that performance..... thinking.....

I find it curious how every 18Gbps cable I've ever tried does not match up to the 27Gbps or 48Gbps cables though. I mean I've definitely purchased Premium Certified 18Gbps cables and those didn't work as good either.... so what's going on.....

There must be more than meets the eye going on inside a HDMI cable. I mean there's obviously sound information too but I'm sure this can only be a very small fraction of the data required compared to video information. Then there must be timing information to give the CPU on the TV end enough information to stitch everything perfectly back together again, but I'm not sure how much extra information this all takes up? Oh and it's digital too so the 17.92Gbps video information must be having to be sent at least twice...... WAIT, maybe that's it.....???

Maybe 18Gbps cables can only support a 9Gbps data "picture" but the information is sent down the cable twice... 9+9=18 ? That would actually make sense as a 4:2:0 picture requires exactly 50% of the data that a 4:4:4 picture requires!!! OK, so working through these numbers I get the following which seems to tie in nicely with the results being achieved with the cables I've tested:

4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:0 picture = 17.92Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture = 23.89Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:4:4 picture = 35.83Gbps video data.

This would explain why all the 18Gbps cables I've tested are only achieving the 4:2:0 Chroma picture. And it would also explain why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables are achieving the 4:2:2 Chroma picture too. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the 48Gbps cables are not achieving a 4:4:4 Chroma picture, but I imagine this simply is a result of the actual female HDMI 2.0 port reaching it's maximum data capacity and so when the two devices are handshaking they're opting to choose the next best picture standard that does work which is the 4:2:2 Chroma one.

Otto, why do you keep plugging the RuiPro4K cables. I've just found them online and they don't appear to have sold more than 20 globally and have hardly any reviews? You never answered my question when I asked you what you do for a job so I'm now wondering whether you might work for RuiPro4K?? Are you a qualified engineer?

Ratman, what can I say, if I've offended you then I'm sorry and apologise, but you have to admit, it is a rare thing for a 65 year old to be posting in forums about technical subjects such as these so when you seem to be constantly degrading the words I'm saying and joining sides with a person who appears like they may work for RuiPro4K it begins to make me question everything about your profile, it's that simple, but if you are who you say you are then I do apologise.

All I've done is provide real world test information and try to provide answers as to why the test data I'm seeing is happening 100% of the time on my test setup and since posting this information I've been constantly told this information is not true from Otto, but it is true in my setup and I'm trying to look for answers why and hopefully help other members of the community who may also be having similar problems too.

Jong1, Hi, nice to meet you. You seem like you're willing to try and provide answers, so I'm interested to know if you have enough of a background to be able to comment on the numbers I've questioned above? I mean it really seems to make sense to me but I'll happily be taught otherwise if you know what is going on and can provide some simple logical reasoning to support it


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

PS: The 22Gbps number has been mentioned in posts before. From my numbers above I would be happy to amend this to 24Gbps or possibly even higher. It's not the number which is important here though but more the idea that this explanation seems to be the only logical answer to explain why all of the 18Gbps cables I tested were not as good as the 27Gbps and 48Gbps ones.

The only other explanation is that every Premium certified 18Gbps cable I purchased and tested was faulty, in which case the percentage of faulty 18Gbps cables would appear to be significant, but this makes no sense to me. I mean no one is that unlucky surely, I mean of the many 18Gbps cables I purchased only 3 were officially certified, but if just 1 in 100 cables are manufactured faulty which seems like a realistic manufacturing target, then the probability would be about 1 in a million to have that many cables not work, so the most likely reason is that something else is going on. Of course this 1 in 100 faulty cables should be removed from the production line during performance quality testing but I'm not sure if this inspection is happening for the certified cables :/


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Ratman, what can I say, if I've offended you then I'm sorry and apologise, but you have to admit, it is a rare thing for a 65 year old to be posting in forums about technical subjects such as these so when you seem to be constantly degrading the words I'm saying and joining sides with a person who appears like they may work for RuiPro4K it begins to make me question everything about your profile, it's that simple, but if you are who you say you are then I do apologise.


You are way off base. 
Just answer the questions as asked. It's that simple. 
And... I am who I am. Are you who you say you are in _your_ profile?


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*Does Ratman have the answers*

LOL Ratman I like your tag line. It's very amusing considering you never seem to provide any answers of your own. 

And yes I am who I say I am. If you understand anything about engineering then simply ask me a question. Would you like a drawing of the bending moment diagram of a cod rod as is standard practice in any engineering interview, or perhaps to know the differing modes of failure of crankshafts, or maybe to know the shear force exerted on a gudgeon pin at TDC? 

So excuse me for asking again, but what is your technical background and then perhaps I can pose some technical questions of my own that you won't find answers on Google to for you to answer?

Actually I can think of a relevant question now. What is the minimum outer diameter in mm of a copper wire being used as the power wire for a HDMI 2.1 cable thats 2m in length...


----------



## Ratman

Thanks for derailing this thread. 
You have now gone to the absurd. Bye!


EDIT:


HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> LOL Ratman I like your tag line. It's very amusing considering you never seem to provide any answers of your own.
> 
> And yes I am who I say I am. If you understand anything about engineering then simply ask me a question. Would you like a drawing of the bending moment diagram of a cod rod as is standard practice in any engineering interview, or perhaps to know the differing modes of failure of crankshafts, or maybe to know the shear force exerted on a gudgeon pin at TDC?
> 
> So excuse me for asking again, but what is your technical background and then perhaps I can pose some technical questions of my own that you won't find answers on Google to for you to answer?
> 
> Actually I can think of a relevant question now. What is the minimum outer diameter in mm of a copper wire being used as the power wire for a HDMI 2.1 cable thats 2m in length...


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*Bringing this Thread Back on Track*



Ratman said:


> Thanks for derailing this thread.
> You have now gone to the absurd. Bye!
> EDIT:


Oh I see what you did there, you still provided no answers and chose to throw a final insult into the mix. Pretty clever really but definitely not an IQ 200 move.

OK, so lets get this thread back on track to where it was before Ratman started throwing it off course. I'll just paste the entire last comment in below. And Jong1 you seemed much less hostile than Ratman and Otto have been toward me so I hope you're the person with the answers:


That's interesting and makes sense. I would have hoped every cable had passed a performance quality inspection when it was manufactured though, but maybe not if the manufacturers are using the certification to prove the design and are then choosing to save money on performance inspection costs by simply not doing that performance testing because they think the certification means they'll never get quality problems? I know you'd never get away with that in the UK but maybe in Taiwan and China etc this lack of inspection is deemed ok and maybe even common practice to save money? That then makes sense why every cost saving effort I've known in Aerospace and Motorsport projects where the accountants have tried to save money by having parts manufactured in these cheaper countries has ultimately resulted in poor part quality resulting in huge production problems and typically several months of delays to projects before the decision was ultimately made to finally bring manufacture back to more local machine shops back in the UK.

When I work through the maths theory myself I keep reaching the answer that 17.92Gbps supports 4K 60Hz 12bit 4:4:4 so I'm not sure what's going on now because none of the cables, not even the 48Gbps cables give that performance..... thinking.....

I find it curious how every 18Gbps cable I've ever tried does not match up to the 27Gbps or 48Gbps cables though. I mean I've definitely purchased Premium Certified 18Gbps cables and those didn't work as good either.... so what's going on.....

There must be more than meets the eye going on inside a HDMI cable. I mean there's obviously sound information too but I'm sure this can only be a very small fraction of the data required compared to video information. Then there must be timing information to give the CPU on the TV end enough information to stitch everything perfectly back together again, but I'm not sure how much extra information this all takes up? Oh and it's digital too so the 17.92Gbps video information must be having to be sent at least twice...... WAIT, maybe that's it.....???

Maybe 18Gbps cables can only support a 9Gbps data "picture" but the information is sent down the cable twice... 9+9=18 ? That would actually make sense as a 4:2:0 picture requires exactly 50% of the data that a 4:4:4 picture requires!!! OK, so working through these numbers I get the following which seems to tie in nicely with the results being achieved with the cables I've tested:

4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:0 picture = 17.92Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture = 23.89Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:4:4 picture = 35.83Gbps video data.

This would explain why all the 18Gbps cables I've tested are only achieving the 4:2:0 Chroma picture. And it would also explain why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables are achieving the 4:2:2 Chroma picture too. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the 48Gbps cables are not achieving a 4:4:4 Chroma picture, but I imagine this simply is a result of the actual female HDMI 2.0 port reaching it's maximum data capacity and so when the two devices are handshaking they're opting to choose the next best picture standard that does work which is the 4:2:2 Chroma one.

Jong1, Hi, nice to meet you. You seem like you're willing to try and provide answers, so I'm interested to know if you have enough of a background to be able to comment on the numbers I've questioned above? I mean it really seems to make sense to me but I'll happily be taught otherwise if you know what is going on and can provide some simple logical reasoning to support it


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Oh I see what you did there, you still provided no answers and chose to throw a final insult into the mix. Pretty clever really but definitely not an IQ 200 move.
> 
> OK, so lets get this thread back on track to where it was before Ratman started throwing it off course. I'll just paste the entire last comment in below. And Jong1 you seemed much less hostile than Ratman and Otto have been toward me so I hope you're the person with the answers:



Personal attacks are not welcome.


----------



## jong1

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Jong1, Hi, nice to meet you. You seem like you're willing to try and provide answers, so I'm interested to know if you have enough of a background to be able to comment on the numbers I've questioned above? I mean it really seems to make sense to me but I'll happily be taught otherwise if you know what is going on and can provide some simple logical reasoning to support it


Hi!

I promise you you only need 17.82Gbps to pass 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2.



HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> When I work through the maths theory myself I keep reaching the answer that 17.92Gbps supports 4K 60Hz 12bit 4:4:4 so I'm not sure what's going on now because none of the cables, not even the 48Gbps cables give that performance..... thinking.....
> 
> There must be more than meets the eye going on inside a HDMI cable. I mean there's obviously sound information too but I'm sure this can only be a very small fraction of the data required compared to video information. Then there must be timing information to give the CPU on the TV end enough information to stitch everything perfectly back together again, but I'm not sure how much extra information this all takes up?


Yeah, what you are missing in your calculation, as you have realised, is that there is considerable overhead in an HDMI TMDS Frame. It is not a simple "raw" data stream.

The frames are synced to the refresh rate of the display and, like "old-fashioned" TV, there are sizeable horizontal and vertical blanking intervals, which use bandwidth but contain no video data. Instead they contain control data and, if available, audio. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Transition-Minimized_Differential_Signaling_(TMDS).This picture shows it quite nicely:










Audio is transmitted during the data island periods. If there is no audio, empty packets need to be transmitted to maintain sync. If there is audio it essentially uses no additional bandwidth. It is because of this that none of the bit rate calculators need to consider any additional data rate for audio. 



HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Maybe 18Gbps cables can only support a 9Gbps data "picture" but the information is sent down the cable twice... 9+9=18 ? That would actually make sense as a 4:2:0 picture requires exactly 50% of the data that a 4:4:4 picture requires!!! OK, so working through these numbers I get the following which seems to tie in nicely with the results being achieved with the cables I've tested:
> 
> 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:0 picture = 17.92Gbps video data.
> 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture = 23.89Gbps video data.
> 4K 60Hz HDR12 4:4:4 picture = 35.83Gbps video data.
> 
> This would explain why all the 18Gbps cables I've tested are only achieving the 4:2:0 Chroma picture. And it would also explain why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables are achieving the 4:2:2 Chroma picture too. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the 48Gbps cables are not achieving a 4:4:4 Chroma picture, but I imagine this simply is a result of the actual female HDMI 2.0 port reaching it's maximum data capacity and so when the two devices are handshaking they're opting to choose the next best picture standard that does work which is the 4:2:2 Chroma one.


No, sorry, this is wrong. 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 can be transmitted @18Gbps. The table shown from this link I posted yesterday spells it out quite nicely.










So, I really do not know why all your "18Gbps" cables failed. I can only assure you that a true 18Gbps cable with compliant good source and display can transmit 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 and no compliant HDMI 2.0 source will try to transmit at more than 18Gbps. HDMI 2.0 was designed specifically with this in mind.

Hope this helps.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Hi Jong1, very helpful thanks!, that's just the type of answer I was looking for!

So you are basically saying I am just that unlucky when it comes to buying 18Gbps HDMI cables 

Have you got any similar information on how the DSC encryption works because it seems like an important tool being used to cut down on the amount of data sent for increased bit rates?


----------



## jong1

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Hi Jong1, very helpful thanks!, that's just the type of answer I was looking for!
> 
> So you are basically saying I am just that unlucky when it comes to buying 18Gbps HDMI cables
> 
> Have you got any similar information on how the DSC encryption works because it seems like an important tool being used to cut down on the amount of data sent for increased bit rates?


No DSC compression is used with HDMI 2.0, that will only happen when HDMI 2.1 takes off and is only used when the data rate would otherwise go over 48Gbps.

This table shows it quite well:


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Hi Jong1 thanks for the table. Your information is very useful 

The reason I was asking about the DSC compression is because in the CEDIA table it mentions that the data is being DSC compressed to deliver the 8 bit and 10 bit versions of the 4K 60Hz 4:2:2 Chroma which seems to be the way it is fitting this into the 18Gbps bandwidth?

But yes I'd heard of DSC and thought it was just being introduced for HDMI 2.1 cables, but it sounds like it's also being used for the HDMI 2.0 cables, perhaps at an older revision :/


----------



## jong1

No. I did wonder if that might be confusing, but didn't want to confuse things myself maybe unnecessarily by introducing it!

The HDBaseT column on the Cedia table concerns how to pass HDMI over Cat ("ethernet") cabling - the traditional way of doing long cable runs, although fiber is better for many people these days. Even Cat 7 is not rated to 18Gbps, so compression is needed for some video modes and DSC currently breaks Dolby Vision metadata, so some are simply unavailable.

If you are using a regular HDMI cable or fiber HDMI cable no compression is used for HDMI 2.0.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Otto, why do you keep plugging the RuiPro4K cables. I've just found them online and they don't appear to have sold more than 20 globally and have hardly any reviews? You never answered my question when I asked you what you do for a job so I'm now wondering whether you might work for RuiPro4K?? Are you a qualified engineer?


Your "research" on Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables is way off. They have sold thousands of cables globally and is recognized here by AVS members as making cables that work extremely well for 4k HDR at lengths over 10m. In fact, there is a major installer in the UK who has sold and installed hundreds of cables and is an exclusive reseller for them. He is also a frequent and respected poster here on AVS as well. I have no vested interest in Ruipro other than they sent me 2m versions of their current cables to test out in my system because there were some concerns by others that active cables would have issues at under 3m (or about 10'). They don't, and in fact performed as well as the BJC Premium passive cables. I have no problems with 4:2:0, 4:2:2 , or even 4:4:4 (but I have no need to use that chroma because I'm not a gamer nor do I use a computer as a source).

My profession is not relevant to this discussion. But if you must know, I'm a retired, published, analytical chemist with extensive experience in spectrophotometry. We've asked you time and time again for a link to your 27Gbps or even 48Gbps cables and you have refused to honor that request. Your comment about more 1's and 0's producing better pq leaves one to wonder.


----------



## wookiegr

I've been using the RuiPro4K fiber cable for over a year and its great.


----------



## randman

I need a 40' HDMI cable. The cable will be run from my processor, then up the wall, through the ceiling and to the projector. Trying to decide between these 2 cables:

1. Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR cable: One version is CMP-rated, and the other doesn't have an advertised fire rating. The CMP version is more expensive.

2. RUIPRO cable. 

I don't see any fire rating advertised for the RUIPRO cable. I read earlier in the thread that rating for optical cables are different than copper cables, but isn't the jacket itself important as well in terms of the overall cable not acting like a fuse in the event of a fire (whose origin isn't necessarily the cable itself)? The Monoprice SlimRun AV has the CMP-rated version, but it is about 33% more expensive than the RUIPRO. Any thoughts with regards to fire safety (probably a secondary concern after ensuring that the cable passes 4k okay, but don't want to worry about what happens in the event of a catastrophe and don't want to give insurance company any caveats...)?


----------



## mrtickleuk

1.


Otto Pylot said:


> *Please provide links to your 21Gbps, 27Gbps, or 48Gbps cable (other than the highly suspect Belkin cable)*.


2.


Otto Pylot said:


> We would still like to see your *link to the magical 22Gbps/27Gbps cable*. If you think you get better PQ with your 27Gbps cable because you are getting more 1’s and 0’s than an 18Gbps cable then that’s your perception but it has no basis in reality. Enjoy your cables.


3.


Otto Pylot said:


> All we ask is that you *post links to the cables* you've tested so if someone else here wants to attempt to verify your results they can. Links to products are done all of the time.


4.


jong1 said:


> So, what he _has _proved is that his "18Gb/s" cables were, in fact, not and his* "27Gb/s" and "48Gb/s" cables (whatever they were)* could, like any working Premium Certified or 18Gb/s-capable fiber cable, pass 18Gb/s.


5.


Ratman said:


> You are way off base.
> *Just answer the questions as asked. It's that simple. *


I make that 5 times he has been asked to provide details of those cables, and 5 times (so far) he has ignored the question and tried to deflect with lots of questions of his own.

He'll either deflect this one with questions about me, or ignore it.* But he will not ever provide details of those cables, or answer the question.*


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 3.
> 
> 
> 4.
> 
> 
> 5.
> 
> 
> I make that 5 times he has been asked to provide details of those cables, and 5 times (so far) he has ignored the question and tried to deflect with lots of questions of his own.
> 
> He'll either deflect this one with questions about me, or ignore it. But he will *not* ever provide details of those cables, or answer the question.


I like the way you did your quotes, numbered and all  I need to learn how to do that. I even asked him over on AV Forums, where he goes by AWCrypt and nada.


----------



## Otto Pylot

randman said:


> I need a 40' HDMI cable. The cable will be run from my processor, then up the wall, through the ceiling and to the projector. Trying to decide between these 2 cables:
> 
> 1. Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR cable: One version is CMP-rated, and the other doesn't have an advertised fire rating. The CMP version is more expensive.
> 
> 2. RUIPRO cable.
> 
> I don't see any fire rating advertised for the RUIPRO cable. I read earlier in the thread that rating for optical cables are different than copper cables, but isn't the jacket itself important as well in terms of the overall cable not acting like a fuse in the event of a fire (whose origin isn't necessarily the cable itself)? The Monoprice SlimRun AV has the CMP-rated version, but it is about 33% more expensive than the RUIPRO. Any thoughts with regards to fire safety (probably a secondary concern after ensuring that the cable passes 4k okay, but don't want to worry about what happens in the event of a catastrophe and don't want to give insurance company any caveats...)?


The Ruipro4k cables use CL2 rated jacket material but they are still waiting for the approval to add that to their specs. For an HDMI cable, I wouldn't be too concerned with just running an HDMI cable but caution is always a good thing. CL2 is rated for 150V and CL3 is rated for 300V. Both types of cables are for high voltage applications and don’t reduce smoke or gases but reduce the possibility of shock. CMP ratings are usually reserved for commercial buildings with CMP made for use with plenums. CM and CMG cables are usually used for ethernet applications and the CL group is used for audio/visual applications. Most home wiring is the CL/CM variety.

I think you'd get better longevity with the Ruipro cable only because it is extremely well made, very flexible, and is hybrid fiber. At 40' I assume you are running your cables in a conduit.


----------



## Ratman

Look for HDMI cables that provide:


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

So it appears that two retired people can do with a lesson on how to greet people to a new forum and re-educate them if they say something wrong 

To be fair I did answer your question indirectly several times when I said that every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable I've ever tried worked better than every 18Gbps HDMI cable I ever tried. And this is still true.

But informative information has now been provided in a friendly and welcoming way by Jong1, which now leads me to believe that all of the 18Gbps HDMI cables I purchased, both certified and not must have been faulty, because I cannot fault Jong1's logic. His answer was much more logical and informative than a simple "you're wrong, wait for the links, wait for the links etc etc". To be fair Ratman and Otto have unfairly been at my throat since I posted my first post, which was only ever meant as a "hey guys I've found this out, I don't necessarily understand why yet but on my system it's giving me the same results each time, and those results were telling me that the 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cables were not performing as well as the 18Gbps cables". And to be fair when any analytical person looks at the results I got in isolation without the information that Jong1 kindly provided I'm sure they'd come to the same conclusion as I did.

As for the comment about 1's and 0's Otto, if you remember rightly it was you who first mentioned that and I simply agreed with you.

In future I suggest you both try and be more friendly and informative to new members, because invariably young newbies are bound to come here not knowing all the information you've accumulated over the years, and to be ganged up in in the way that two retired men have done to me... one of whom has admitted to being a well educated man... well you should know better to be fair.

But trying to take away some positives from this, it's good to know you've mastered counting to five LOL


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> As for the comment about 1's and 0's Otto, if you remember rightly it was you who first mentioned that and I simply agreed with you.


Again, you are way off base. What I said was that a digital signal is just 1's and 0's, and those 1's and 0's can not make reds any redder or greens any greener. Go back and read your own post which I posted above. Your premise is that 27Gbps provides more 1's and 0's, therefore producing better pq. 

All you have said is that you've tested multiple cables in your system and found that a 27Gbps and/or a 48Gbps cable produced better pq than a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (18Gbps, passive, certified). And all we asked is for you tell us which cables you tested and to post a link to the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cable so we could check ourselves. You seem to have difficulty in relaying that information.

As far as being retired you really should leave those comments to yourself because our age and "work status" has no bearing at all on your unfounded claims.


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> To be fair I did answer your question indirectly several times when I said that every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable I've ever tried worked better than every 18Gbps HDMI cable I ever tried. And this is still true.


Make/models lengths of ALL the cables?


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Hmmm you need to take my head space into account. At that point in time Jong1 had not entered the conversation so nobody had provided me with any evidence to show me what I was saying was off tangent. All I had to go off was two unknown people, one of them who kept up selling RuiPro4K cables who I honestly thought sounded like a RuiPro salesman was telling me that all the inadvertent testing I'd ended up doing on HDMI cables was nonsense and all I needed was a RuiPro4K 18Gbps cable.

This got my back up because I thought you were a salesman of RuiPro4K and that you were trying to prevent helpful information becoming known to people who come to this site for help and advice.

When you made the 1's and 0's comment I agreed with you, but I thought you were trying to make the point that if a source is sending 18Gbps worth of 1's and 0's down the HDMI cable that 27Gbps worth of 1's and 0's would not end up coming out the other end, which is obviously true. But this is all before Jong1 got involved so I was purely in the head space of believing all of my own test results, so my instant reaction was yes you're right but if you send 27Gbps of data from the source down a 27Gbps cable then 27Gbps will end up coming out the other side which will give a better picture, or words to that effect with the 22Gbps max hdmi port speed factored into the equation which somebody else had mentioned maybe in this post or another one but I did read that somewhere.

As for links to cables I don't think it's right posting links to products on forums so I won't be doing that but to be fair I probably couldn't remember which ones I bought anyway because many of them look the same these days. I do remember a 27Gbps Monster one though because the name and price both stuck in my mind. Bloody expensive for a cable!!!

As for being retired, maybe it shouldn't matter but personally it makes me respect a person more, especially if I know their background. But when it feels like somebody is repeatedly having a go at me and hiding their experience from me it made me feel like there was no good reason for doing that and it made me lose respect because I honestly believed you and Ratman both didn't want information I believed to be true becoming common knowledge.

Obviously it looks like I was wrong so I apologise for my part in what ended up being a frustrating conversation. But please can newbies be treated more like Jong1 treated me in future because it starts the conversation off on the right foot


----------



## Otto Pylot

You are still a little bit confused about the Ruipro cables. What I've said in the past is that runs up to 20' or so can be successfully done with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (tested and verified to conform to all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications). For runs over 20', most AVS'ers have had very good success with the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables. I've tested both in my system and found them to perform equally well for ALL HDMI 2.0 specifications at the length that I tested. At my cable length, the hybrid fiber cable is an overkill due to cost. No cable, regardless of mfr claims can be guaranteed to work 100% of the time in any given system. The cable is just the data pipe, it can not alter the signal in any way. That is the function of the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink.

We are always welcoming to newbies because AVS is a continuing learning process, for newbies and retirees alike. We take issue when someone posts what they believe to be factual information and ends up refusing to answer direct questions with questionable data. Just like you suspected me of being a shill for Ruipro, we too thought you were trying to push a specific cable for a specific mfr based on just your own experience. It goes both ways. And the fact that you were posting the same on another Forum just added to that suspicion.

Welcome to AVS and let's hope that you can find a legitimate cable that will work for you and your specific needs. All we can do is recommend based on our experience and knowledge of HDMI (cables, connectors, and protocols).


----------



## Ratman

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> As for links to cables I don't think it's right posting links to products on forums..


If there is problem, moderators will advise and/or remove.
Feel free to provide the make/models/lengths... a link is not necessary.


----------



## Joe Fernand

HDMI_4K-60Hz 
_'I've just found them online and they don't appear to have sold more than 20 globally and have hardly any reviews?'_ - I'm no engineer but I have supplied and installed more than 20 pcs of RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre and Post No.1 of this thread has a pretty decent test report on many cables 

Randman
'fire rating' for long cables is usually required in commercial rather than residential installs, though check your local building regs. Fire rating will usually also include a spec for cable hangers to ensure burning cables do not become a tangle hazard if they drop out of roof voids. Fire rated cables can be pretty stiff and unfriendly to work with.

Ideally you will want to install any long cable in a Conduit or run it alongside a Conduit (with a pull cord installed) as cables can and do fail, get damaged or become obsolete, you can use a fire rated conduit!

Ensure you also run at least one solid core, non-CCA or non-CCS CAT6 cable to the Projector.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> If there is problem, moderators will advise and/or remove.
> Feel free to provide the make/models/lengths... a link is not necessary.


He just posted on AV Forums with the same 27Gbps comment  I wish him well.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

So which cable do I need which will give me 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma on my HDMI 2.0 setup?

It's only a short 3m cable run from a PC to a TV.


----------



## jong1

If you look at the Cedia chart you will see, sadly, 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4 is not possible with HDMI 2.0. You will need to wait for HDMI 2.1.

With 4K/60, If you want 4:4:4 you are limited to 8-bit. If you want 10-bit (or 12) you have to drop down to 4:2:2. However, on a TV I think you would be very hard pushed to spot the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, even with great 4K RGB still photos. All video sources (even 4K HDR Bluray) are actually 4:2:0 anyway, so sending 4:4:4 just involves your source upscaling chroma instead of the TV. There is no guarantee it will do it any better.


----------



## Ratman

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-...-support-48-gbps-hdmi-2-1-a.html#post58133446


----------



## jong1

Ratman said:


> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-...-support-48-gbps-hdmi-2-1-a.html#post58133446


But, to be clear, those cables are no use unless you have an HDMI 2.1 source and HDMI 2.1 display. Just changing the cable will not allow 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

jong1 said:


> If you look at the Cedia chart you will see, sadly, 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4 is not possible with HDMI 2.0. You will need to wait for HDMI 2.1.
> 
> With 4K/60, If you want 4:4:4 you are limited to 8-bit. If you want 10-bit (or 12) you have to drop down to 4:2:2. However, on a TV I think you would be very hard pushed to spot the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, even with great 4K RGB still photos. All video sources (even 4K HDR Bluray) are actually 4:2:0 anyway, so sending 4:4:4 just involves your source upscaling chroma instead of the TV. There is no guarantee it will do it any better.


I want to thank you, Otto and Joe for your posts about cables and HDMI versions. You avoid mind numbing technical explanations and give practical advice which is at my level of understanding.

At first I wanted to ask about the technical problems with hybrid fiber for transmitting at longer cable lengths. I did not even understand what hybrid fiber is. So I did an hour of internet google research which led me to this:


----------



## Ratman

jong1 said:


> But, to be clear, those cables are no use unless you have an HDMI 2.1 source and HDMI 2.1 display. Just changing the cable will not allow 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4.


You, myself and others in this forum understand that completely. Just provided a link for a "cable" as requested. It's up to the poster that he/she has the hardware/chipsets to support it at each end.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> You, myself and others in this forum understand that completely. Just provided a link for a "cable" as requested. It's up to the poster that he/she has the hardware/chipsets to support it at each end.


Yep. That's what we've been saying. Our friend was just asked by a Senior Moderator over on AV Forms to post a link as well for his 27Gbps cable. Basically "post up or shut up" (my quotes).


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. That's what we've been saying. Our friend was just asked by a Senior Moderator over on AV Forms to post a link as well for his 27Gbps cable. Basically "post up or shut up" (my quotes).


I've seen that too. My comment in this thread yesterday still holds true.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Thanks Jong1, another good and informative explanation 

Sounds like TV screens are able to perform better than the HDMI 2.0 ports in them?

Do we know whether it is the HDMI 2.0 ports which are speed limiting or the chipsets those ports feed into?... If it's the chipsets then can they be made to perform better through a simple software upgrade or are the chips completely maxed out?

PS: What speed does a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 picture need the HDMI cable to be? (I make it either 22.9Gbps or 26.89Gbps).

Simplified:
4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:2 picture needs 17.92Gbps but the video data in that signal only takes up 9.95Gbps.
The video data in a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 signal would take up 14.93Gbps.

So 14.93 + (17.92-9.95) = 22.90Gbps ?
Or 14.93 * (17.92 / 9.95) = 26.89Gbps ?
Or something else in which case can someone provide the math 

Cheers


----------



## jong1

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Thanks Jong1, another good and informative explanation
> 
> Sounds like TV screens are able to perform better than the HDMI 2.0 ports in them?
> 
> Do we know whether it is the HDMI 2.0 ports which are speed limiting or the chipsets those ports feed into?... If it's the chipsets then can they be made to perform better through a simple software upgrade or are the chips completely maxed out?
> 
> PS: What speed does a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 picture need the HDMI cable to be? (I make it either 22.9Gbps or 26.89Gbps).
> 
> Simplified:
> 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:2:2 picture needs 17.92Gbps but the video data in that signal only takes up 9.95Gbps.
> The video data in a 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 signal would take up 14.93Gbps.
> 
> So 14.93 + (17.92-9.95) = 22.90Gbps ?
> Or 14.93 * (17.92 / 9.95) = 26.89Gbps ?
> Or something else in which case can someone provide the math
> 
> Cheers


I haven't independently verified it but Cedia show the bitrate required on their chart (looks like its 24Gbps).

I am of the belief that the chipsets currently being used are incapable of being "overdriven" to support a higher data rate via a firmware update and, even if they were, I doubt there is a way for two devices to communicate this to each other and agree to use it without inventing a new HDMI spec - "HDMI 2.0a" for sake of argument.

As all the manufacturers are busy implementing HDMI 2.1, I cannot see that happening even if, for some, it were technically possible.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Thanks Jong1,

So it seems reasonable that the reason 23Gbps and 27Gbps HDMi cables exist is because people have overly simplified the math just like I've just done.

PS: 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma requires 20.05Gbps ? It seems too low. I mean you'd have expected it to be at least equal to or over the 22.90Gbps number I've just calculated otherwise some of that "dead but somehow useful space data" that makes up the rest of the data stream seems to have been reduced significantly :/

Interested to know how that works


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Thanks Jong1,
> 
> So it seems reasonable that the reason 23Gbps and 27Gbps HDMi cables exist is because people have overly simplified the math just like I've just done.
> 
> PS: 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma requires 20.05Gbps ? It seems too low. I mean you'd have expected it to be at least equal to or over the 22.90Gbps number I've just calculated otherwise some of that "dead but somehow useful space data" that makes up the rest of the data stream seems to have been reduced significantly :/
> 
> Interested to know how that works


And you still continue on. @jong1 is being very patient with you, and I commend him for that, but being an "engineer" you should know this given your extensive knowledge of HDMI . I really hate to use the work troll, but dewd it's starting to look like that.


----------



## Lucky Strike

Looking for a 10m cable to run to my projector (going to be upgrading to a benq ht3550 next month) and looking at the ruipro hybrid cables. On amazon when clicking on ruipro as a seller they have a two different cables that seem to be the same (10m, 4k, 18gb) as far as description although they are priced a little different. Am I missing something or are they identical? Just want to make sure I buy the right one.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Lucky Strike said:


> Looking for a 10m cable to run to my projector (going to be upgrading to a benq ht3550 next month) and looking at the ruipro hybrid cables. On amazon when clicking on ruipro as a seller they have a two different cables that seem to be the same (10m, 4k, 18gb) as far as description although they are priced a little different. Am I missing something or are they identical? Just want to make sure I buy the right one.


There have been some issues with Amazon and how they are listing the Ruipro4k cable. The current product number for the 4k cable should be SNAOC20V102A. At 30' (10m) you should be installing your cable in a conduit unless you have easy access to the cable.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Otto Pylot said:


> And you still continue on. @jong1 is being very patient with you, and I commend him for that, but being an "engineer" you should know this given your extensive knowledge of HDMI . I really hate to use the work troll, but dewd it's starting to look like that.


Otto, to use your own words, you're way off base. Jong1 seems very knowledgeable in this area and I've already admitted to having mislead myself to the wrong conclusion based off drawing conclusions purely from my test results without knowing the more in depth information that Jong1 has kindly provided. Information which based on your experience here and seeing the mistake I was making you had ample opportunity to provide but chose not to. I'm now merely trying to understand everything about this and as Jong1 appears to be really knowledgeable and open to the idea of providing actual technical information instead of up selling RuiPro4K cables, I'm continuing on with that discussion as the numbers don't 100% make sense to me and there must be a good and valid reason for this which I'm trying to find out.

I'm not a troll. If you look at a summary of the discussion since I joined it goes like this:
1. Hi guys after having lots of problems with 18Gbps cables I've found that 27Gbps cables work better for me.
2. Hi Otto, Hi Ratman, who are you and why do you keep saying this is nonsense in a kind of bullying way whilst up selling RuiPro4K cables.
3. OK Otto and Ratman so I think you work for RuiPro, and because I think my test results are 100% correct I'm not going to allow you to bully me into not letting everyone else know that 27Gbps work better than 18Gbps cables.
4. Hi Jong1, you seem really knowledgeable, thanks for the informative information, now that I have this information I can see that I was wrong and my test results although correct for me are actually misleading.
5. Trying to make a mense with Otto and Ratman, but Otto and Ratman continue to kind of bully me.
6. Start engaging in more of a technical discussion with Jong1 as he continues to provide useful and informative information and I have natural questions after having read that information.

That's the way I see it.


----------



## jong1

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Thanks Jong1,
> 
> So it seems reasonable that the reason 23Gbps and 27Gbps HDMi cables exist is because people have overly simplified the math just like I've just done.


What it really means, in my opinion, is they have just used a signal generator _in lab conditions_ to get a _theoretical _speed. By comparision, you may read that CAT7 can do up to 40Gbps @50M and 100Gbps @15M, but still it is rated @10Gbps! There are no real sources for them to test against so.....!



HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> PS: 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma requires 20.05Gbps ? It seems too low. I mean you'd have expected it to be at least equal to or over the 22.90Gbps number I've just calculated otherwise some of that "dead but somehow useful space data" that makes up the rest of the data stream seems to have been reduced significantly :/
> 
> Interested to know how that works


Yes, you are right and I was wrong . The key quote from the Cedia chart is here:


> # anticipated data rate using HDMI 2.1 methodology


It turns out, with HDMI 2.1:


> Fixed rate link (FRL), a new video transport method, is introduced to replace TMDS. FRL can
> operate with 3 or 4 lanes from 3 Gbps per lane to 12 Gbps per lane for a maximum composite bit
> rate of 48 Gbps. It is encoded as 16b/18b, which increases video data throughput by 12.5% over
> the HDMI 2.0 8b/10b method.


 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-0235EN.pdf).


----------



## StevenC56

I've been using the #1 rated Monoprice slimrun fiber optic cable in the 50' length that was in the original test referenced at the beginning of this thread for the last 2 years now. No problem so far, and lifetime warranty with Monoprice. This thread seems to have turned into an advertisement for another brand.


----------



## Lucky Strike

Otto Pylot said:


> There have been some issues with Amazon and how they are listing the Ruipro4k cable. The current product number for the 4k cable should be SNAOC20V102A. At 30' (10m) you should be installing your cable in a conduit unless you have easy access to the cable.


Thanks, thankfully I installed a 3" conduit and it's a straight run through the ceiling and then accessible from an adjacent unfinished room once it goes down the wall, this will be the second time i've swapped out a HDMI cable (first time was for a passive one to Redmere on a 1080p projector) and I'm so glad that I saw that advice on here about conduit before building out my room, definitely saved me $ in drywall repair. 

The one amazon ad for 4k cable (this ad only has one length, 10M/32.8' length) does have model number SNAOC20V201A-10M

The other has model number SNAOC20142010 and this ad has multiple lengths (3m, 6m, 10m, 12m, 15m, up to 50m)

My current cable is 35' and it's got a little slack at the receiver and projector ends but for the most part is straight. I think stepping down to 32.8' will still work but things will be a little tight. Not to the point of putting stress on the connections but I'd likely have to reach behind the receiver and unplug the this cable if I ever wanted to turn the receiver around so I could take a look at the back or make connection changes...not that I do that often but it does happen.

That 12m length on the other ad is kind of intriguing though. Do you think that particular model number that has multiple lengths is for an older version of the cable? You think I'd be better served keeping my cable 6.5' shorter (shorter = potential for it to work better?) or giving myself a solid amount of slack at both ends?


----------



## jong1

StevenC56 said:


> I've been using the #1 rated Monoprice slimrun fiber optic cable in the 50' length that was in the original test referenced at the beginning of this thread for the last 2 years now. No problem so far, and lifetime warranty with Monoprice. This thread seems to have turned into an advertisement for another brand.


I don't think that's fair. People inevitably (and indeed hopefully!) talk about products they have experience with. Anyone can talk about their experiences with any brand/model at any time.

If more people have experience of, or have chosen to speak about, one brand that hardly counts as advertising.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Otto, to use your own words, you're way off base. Jong1 seems very knowledgeable in this area and I've already admitted to having mislead myself to the wrong conclusion based off drawing conclusions purely from my test results without knowing the more in depth information that Jong1 has kindly provided. Information which based on your experience here and seeing the mistake I was making you had ample opportunity to provide but chose not to. I'm now merely trying to understand everything about this and as Jong1 appears to be really knowledgeable and open to the idea of providing actual technical information instead of up selling RuiPro4K cables, I'm continuing on with that discussion as the numbers don't 100% make sense to me and there must be a good and valid reason for this which I'm trying to find out.
> 
> I'm not a troll. If you look at a summary of the discussion since I joined it goes like this:
> 1. Hi guys after having lots of problems with 18Gbps cables I've found that 27Gbps cables work better for me.
> 2. Hi Otto, Hi Ratman, who are you and why do you keep saying this is nonsense in a kind of bullying way whilst up selling RuiPro4K cables.
> 3. OK Otto and Ratman so I think you work for RuiPro, and because I think my test results are 100% correct I'm not going to allow you to bully me into not letting everyone else know that 27Gbps work better than 18Gbps cables.
> 4. Hi Jong1, you seem really knowledgeable, thanks for the informative information, now that I have this information I can see that I was wrong and my test results although correct for me are actually misleading.
> 5. Trying to make a mense with Otto and Ratman, but Otto and Ratman continue to kind of bully me.
> 6. Start engaging in more of a technical discussion with Jong1 as he continues to provide useful and informative information and I have natural questions after having read that information.
> 
> That's the way I see it.


If I may paste a quote from someone on the other Forum you keep posting to he summarizes what we've been trying to tell you: _As others are pointing out it is not possible to verify claims made on many webpages unless there is some form of standard testing procedure to work too - HDMI.org has its Cable and Production Plant Certification process.

_I do not work for Ruipro. Ruipro first came to this forum over a year ago answering some questions about fiber and hybrid fiber cables. What they said made sense (with verifiable documentation) so some brave souls tried their cables because they were looking for solution for 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 30'. The cables worked very well so I started up a conversation with them about shorter lengths, which lead to them sending me some short length cables to test in a real-world consumer setting. We started reading more and more positive results from other members here on AVS and it became quite clear that the Ruipro4k cables, at least for now, were a viable solution for 4k HDR at the longer lengths. That's why we recommend them now for 4k HDR beyond 25' and Premium High Speed cables for runs under 25'.

The issue we have is the way you are trying to convince everyone that a reputed "27Gbps" cable produces more 1's and 0's and thus better pq than a certified and verified cable. Both of which are limited to the speed of the HDMI chipsets on either end. We, on the other hand, are just saying that unless you have a way to prove that the cable can in fact reliably pass 27Gbps, and the resultant pq can be measured, it's just your viewing experience with no verifiable data.

Maybe if you had've started the conversation with something a little less "factual" than an unknown 27Gbps cable producing better pq than a certified cable, and then posted the cable so all could look at it (specs and mfr), there could've been a better dialog.

You did post on the other Forum two cables you said list 27Gbps (but you were vague as to whether those were the actual cables you used). One was from Monster, which has a reputation for making all kinds of claims that can't be independently verified and the other one was from an in-house brand of a large European retailer, akin to Best Buy over here. That, by the way, is what precipitated the quote above.

ARROW-AV is one who has done a remarkable job in independently verifying cables from lots of different mfrs for HDMI 2.0. They are in fact verifying the new Ruipro8k cables for HDMI 2.1 now. His results would be a good place to start.

EDIT: and if I may quote myself from my post #1282 : _Welcome to AVS and let's hope that you can find a legitimate cable that will work for you and your specific needs. All we can do is recommend based on our experience and knowledge of HDMI (cables, connectors, and protocols). _That's not bullying.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Lucky Strike said:


> The one amazon ad for 4k cable (this ad only has one length, 10M/32.8' length) does have model number SNAOC20V201A-10M
> 
> The other has model number SNAOC20142010 and this ad has multiple lengths (3m, 6m, 10m, 12m, 15m, up to 50m)


They should be the same cable. I pointed that out to Ruipro and they are aware of the confusion. It has something to do with who is reselling the cable and how they choose to advertise. To me, the product description should be as clear as glass but that's not always the case.

It's always a good idea to keep your cable length as short as is possible without affecting bend radius or putting any undo strain on the HDMI inputs. Fiber and hybrid fiber are active so they generally tend to have a thinner gauge wire and have more flexibility, just like their copper-only active counterparts, but it's still best to keep your run as short as is reasonable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StevenC56 said:


> I've been using the #1 rated Monoprice slimrun fiber optic cable in the 50' length that was in the original test referenced at the beginning of this thread for the last 2 years now. No problem so far, and lifetime warranty with Monoprice. This thread seems to have turned into an advertisement for another brand.


We mention Ruipro cables a lot because that's what a lot of users have turned to for long 4k HDR runs. We see more positive reports with them from actual users than from any other brand so that seems to be what is working best. Their physical construction is different from fiber only cables which will probably give them better longevity than just an active fiber cable only. The bottom line is that if you have a cable that is still meeting your needs, there's no reason to change until you feel you need to. If someone is looking for the latest iteration in fiber cable technology, then hybrid fiber (from any mfr) should be considered. Hardly an ad for one company over another.


----------



## Joe Fernand

'It has something to do with who is reselling the cable and how they choose to advertise’ Amazon and its crazy listing system.


Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1.


----------



## Lucky Strike

I messaged Ruipro through Amazon just asking if there was a difference between the two listings and got this response. 


_Thank you for your interest in our cable.
They have same techonology, the difference is that the 201A-10M could not been bended much on the area nearby the plugs.
Except the above, the other features are same.
Thank you,

B/Regards
Thomas _


Although I can't tell if he meant that the 201A labeled cable is reinforced at the plugs (hence making it harder to bend in those last couple inches....which is good) or if it was weaker at that area (it can't bend as much without damaging the cable...which is bad). I guess it doesn't matter much to me since I ending up buying that one (it had a bigger discount on amazon) and in my setup there isn't a need for a significant bend at the receiver or projector. Just thought I'd post this here for others shopping for the cables and wanting info.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Lucky Strike said:


> I messaged Ruipro through Amazon just asking if there was a difference between the two listings and got this response.
> 
> 
> _Thank you for your interest in our cable.
> They have same techonology, the difference is that the 201A-10M could not been bended much on the area nearby the plugs.
> Except the above, the other features are same.
> Thank you,
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas _
> 
> 
> Although I can't tell if he meant that the 201A labeled cable is reinforced at the plugs (hence making it harder to bend in those last couple inches....which is good) or if it was weaker at that area (it can't bend as much without damaging the cable...which is bad). I guess it doesn't matter much to me since I ending up buying that one (it had a bigger discount on amazon) and in my setup there isn't a need for a significant bend at the receiver or projector. Just thought I'd post this here for others shopping for the cables and wanting info.


Good to know. I've worked a lot with Thomas in the past and he's pretty good at responding with honest, no b.s. answers. The bend radius on the cables is fairly generous so I think he was referring having the cable almost touch the back wall so that the cable is close to a 90 degree angle to the connector. Not a good idea for any cable but at least you have your definitive answer. The cables I have on my system are looped about three times because they are a bit long so I have them neatly tied up behind my equipment so they lay nice and flat. The cables I've been testing are only 6' in length.


----------



## Whitfield

Joe Fernand said:


> Ensure you also run at least one solid core, non-CCA or non-CCS CAT6 cable to the Projector.



Sorry for asking Joe,


But what is wrong with stranded (full copper) aka patch cable?


I installed a lot of these (SFTP) CAT6A and CAT7 patch cables both through conduits and conduit-less, and never encountered any problems.

Of course I prefer solid core in fixed conditions (conduits in walls, fixed wall outlets etc). And from there continue with patch cables.

However, many times, when the cables come out of their conduit at their destination, they aren't terminated with a fixed outlet or something, but go further to e.g. a home switch, or directly plugged into a machine and you want them to terminate them with a RJ45 connector.
Because of the manual handling of such used cables, I choose to not use solid core. I think stranded patch cables are more suitable in terms of flexibility and withstanding frequent bending (within radius limits, of course), re-pluggin in/out, etc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Whitfield said:


> Sorry for asking Joe,
> 
> 
> But what is wrong with stranded (full copper) aka patch cable?
> 
> 
> I installed a lot of these (SFTP) CAT6A and CAT7 patch cables both through conduits and conduit-less, and never encountered any problems.
> 
> Of course I prefer solid core in fixed conditions (conduits in walls, fixed wall outlets etc). And from there continue with patch cables.
> 
> However, many times, when the cables come out of their conduit at their destination, they aren't terminated with a fixed outlet or something, but go further to e.g. a home switch, or directly plugged into a machine and you want them to terminate them with a RJ45 connector.
> Because of the manual handling of such used cables, I choose to not use solid core. I think stranded patch cables are more suitable in terms of flexibility and withstanding frequent bending (within radius limits, of course), re-pluggin in/out, etc.


Solid core CAT-6 cables usually have a thicker wire gauge, are pure copper (not Copper Coated Aluminum), and better insulated. You can terminate them with either a punch down keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection or terminate them with some form of active termination, like HDBT, to extend an HDMI connection.

I use solid core CAT-6 to extend my ethernet connection (close to 200') to hardwire our HTS's. They are terminated at the wall with punch down keystone jacks then connect to a gigabit switch via high quality CAT-6 ethernet cables. We have zero issues streaming 4k HDR. With the use of a conduit, it is easy to control bend radius so that becomes a non-issue. Solid core CAT-6 offers more flexibility because you can easily change the termination point should you choose to do so at a later date. You can lay in an extra cable or two for possible future use even if you're not sure what the use will be at time of installation.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'But what is wrong with stranded (full copper) aka patch cable?'_ - I would be running the CAT6 cable as a backup 'video' cable and planning for current or future generation HDBT Extender technology. 

HDBT recommends, and our experience as installers concurs, that solid core rather than stranded is best for high bandwidth video.

Joe


----------



## Whitfield

Sorry for my late reply guys, thanks to both for explaining. 



Cheers
Whitfield


----------



## KSLABY

Finding this thread was a huge $$$ saver so, THANK YOU!!!

In a nutshell I ended up buying one of the winners in this report (50ft/15m Cable Length | Product Code: B01N6HM1RL) and it worked when no other cable or extender would at 4K!

My TV is located 24ft from the electronics in the hall closet or a little over 40ft of cable as it is run through the walls.

Within the last three weeks I tried:

4 different 50ft 4k HDMI cables
3 different cat5/6 extenders
1 4k wireless extender
1 1080 wireless extender
3 different TV’s (two are still sitting in the living room as I continue my evaluations)

Even though some of these were purchased through Amazon (free shipping and returns) I still have spent $200 in restocking fees b/c the equipment didn’t work. I spent hours on the phone with techs and even they were stumped whey their equipment didn’t work.

Before I found this report the only thing that would even pass a 1080 signal was the J-Tech Digital Wireless HDMI Extender 1080p Transmitter & Receiver Kit. BUT, this was only 1080 and I wanted to take advantage of this new 4K system that I have. There is also an audio delay compared to the screen on the two new tv’s I still have in the living room that I am testing with. The cable “winner” minimized this delay but it is still barely present on one of the TV’s.

Once I found this test I bought the B01N6HM1RL cable through Amazon and after plugging it in I had an instant 1080p signal. I then changed the settings to 4K and STILL had the signal!

Now I have a LOT of equipment to return to restock my bank account.

Thank You again!
Regards
ks


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ which cable was that?


----------



## KSLABY

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ which cable was that?


The one that was listed as a "winner" in the pdf test report:


50ft/15m Cable Length | Product Code: B01N6HM1RL



https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber-Cable-Support-Subsampling/dp/B01N6HM1RL


KS


----------



## Otto Pylot

KSLABY said:


> The one that was listed as a "winner" in the pdf test report:
> 
> 
> 50ft/15m Cable Length | Product Code: B01N6HM1RL
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber-Cable-Support-Subsampling/dp/B01N6HM1RL
> 
> 
> KS


Ah yes. One of the first gen Ruipro hybrid fiber cables. We've been recommending those for quite some time now. The newest Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cable should be available in the U.S. in the coming weeks. It can be purchased now thru the Amazon European site I believe. Installing long cable runs in a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof. And if you use the Ruipro4k cable you should be set for quite some time. Source to sink. No adatpers, extenders, wall plates, etc will give you the best possible connection, and the most reliable, for 4k HDR.


----------



## BakeApples

Have anyone tried the MavisLink fiber optic cable in 50ft length, you can see it at the bottom of the Amazon page linked here earlier for the RuiPro cable. It’s more than half the cost compared to the RuiPro so i am curious to know if anyone here tried it?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QS98N68/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?pd_rd_i=B07QPYD7BX&pd_rd_w=S9haV&pf_rd_p=45a72588-80f7-4414-9851-786f6c16d42b&pd_rd_wg=33uSe&pf_rd_r=FCYXZ5VW9E8021034Q3F&pd_rd_r=149712ab-0e10-4f31-9586-a579beb84548&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTzdORE1ZNDJaVUcwJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTA4NzkzMzlWSlRZN0RJUlhDNiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODk4NzQ5MVI4TUdUUTlXVVJHUiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

BakeApples said:


> Have anyone tried the MavisLink fiber optic cable in 50ft length, you can see it at the bottom of the Amazon page linked here earlier for the RuiPro cable. It’s more than half the cost compared to the RuiPro so i am curious to know if anyone here tried it?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QS98N6...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1


It almost looks like a Ruipro4k knock-off, even down to the product images and how they are presented. Try it and let us know.


----------



## StevenC56

KSLABY said:


> The one that was listed as a "winner" in the pdf test report:
> 
> 
> 50ft/15m Cable Length | Product Code: B01N6HM1RL
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber-Cable-Support-Subsampling/dp/B01N6HM1RL
> 
> 
> KS


It tied for first place with this Monoprice cable. The Monoprice is very small and quite flexible, but if you need ARC then the Ruipro is a better choice.

MONOPRICE | SlimRun AV HDR Cable for
HDMI Enabled Devices [email protected], YUV4:4:4

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=21567&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Otto Pylot

StevenC56 said:


> It tied for first place with this Monoprice cable. The Monoprice is very small and quite flexible, but if you need ARC then the Ruipro is a better choice.
> 
> MONOPRICE | SlimRun AV HDR Cable for
> HDMI Enabled Devices [email protected], YUV4:4:4
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=21567&seq=1&format=2


The SlimRun cable is a fiber-only cable as best as I can see but it is a good cable and a good price. But for longevity, a hybrid fiber cable would be a better choice, albeit at a higher price. The Ruipro4k cables are remarkably flexible and have practically zero strain on the HDMI input, provided your equipment is not shoved up against a wall. ARC/eARC is going to be difficult for any cable, especially as you get closer to 30m in length. That's where the hybrid fiber cable would be a better choice. The solid copper wires around the glass fiber bundle handles ARC, EDID, and HDCP communication leaving everything else up to the fiber core.


----------



## jch2

Looks like there are some new options to look at besides the top two in the Report 1

1) First Choice from Report 1

Ruipro 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07287LTRZ/
$159.99

2) Second Choice from Report 1

Monoprice SlimRun 4k 50' (fiber only, no ARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XS8T2W4/
$157.73

3) not reviewed, but mentioned earlier in this thread:

MavisLink 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07QS98N68/
$64.88

4) not reviewed, but this and their 8k 50' have lots of good reviews:

Bifale 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07Q44FHCV/
$67.99

There are also some 8k HDMI 2.1 hybrid fiber choices on Amazon less expensive than these 4k cables... something to add to the 8k HDMI cable sister thread at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-...erly-reliably-support-48-gbps-hdmi-2-1-a.html

This is for those adding a new HDMI run now, and especially for those wanting a little future proofing and also since Monoprice and Ruipro have nothing available for 8k 50' yet (Ruipro 8k coming to market in the US soon I read in the other thread):

Bifale 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07S91JQRP/
$151.99

CABLEDECONN 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VI3N3NY/
$98.99


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Looks like there are some new options to look at besides the top two in the Report 1
> 
> 1) First Choice from Report 1
> 
> Ruipro 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07287LTRZ/
> $159.99
> 
> 2) Second Choice from Report 1
> 
> Monoprice SlimRun 4k 50' (fiber only, no ARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XS8T2W4/
> $157.73
> 
> 3) not reviewed, but mentioned earlier in this thread:
> 
> MavisLink 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07QS98N68/
> $64.88
> 
> 4) not reviewed, but this and their 8k 50' have lots of good reviews:
> 
> Bifale 4k 50' (hybrid fiber with ARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07Q44FHCV/
> $67.99
> 
> There are also some 8k HDMI 2.1 hybrid fiber choices on Amazon less expensive than these 4k cables... something to add to the 8k HDMI cable sister thread at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-...erly-reliably-support-48-gbps-hdmi-2-1-a.html
> 
> This is for those adding a new HDMI run now, and especially for those wanting a little future proofing and also since Monoprice and Ruipro have nothing available for 8k 50' yet (Ruipro 8k coming to market in the US soon I read in the other thread):
> 
> Bifale 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07S91JQRP/
> $151.99
> 
> CABLEDECONN 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VI3N3NY/
> $98.99


Without independent verification (like what ARROW-AV did and is doing) there is no way to verify the claims on the MavisLink, Bifale, or Cabledeconn cables. Especially in light of the fact that there are no consumer devices yet that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that support all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets mentioned in their product descriptions.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> Without independent verification (like what ARROW-AV did and is doing) there is no way to verify the claims on the MavisLink, Bifale, or Cabledeconn cables. Especially in light of the fact that there are no consumer devices yet that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that support all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets mentioned in their product descriptions.


That's why I posted them here. ARROW-AV had requested that people post new finds on long HDMI cables that support (or claim to support) HDMI 2.0 on this thread. Presumably so that he could test them. Given the pricing on the four new options, it is definitely worth looking into (assuming ARROW-AV is still doing testing). They are all Prime 1-day delivery (at least for me), so we could have results as early as this weekend. NOTE: for the first two cables (MavisLink and Bifale), they are 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps cables, so your statement about not being able to test HDMI 2.1 capability does not make sense. For the second two cables, all we would really care about in this thread is how well these claimed HDMI 2.1 cables did on backwards compatability (i.e. how well did they do on HDMI 2.0 tests).

ARROW-AV could test these four exactly the same way he tested the other 20 cables in Report 1, and update the report and post the info on the test results back into this thread. It would also possibly demonstrate that this thread is not a 133 page marketing tool for Ruipro.

ARROW-AV, are you out there? Are you still testing new 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 cables? If so, could you test these? Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> NOTE: for the first two cables (MavisLink and Bifale), they are 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps cables, so your statement about not being able to test HDMI 2.1 capability does not make sense. For the second two cables, all we would really care about in this thread is how well these claimed HDMI 2.1 cables did on backwards compatability (i.e. how well did the do an HDMI 2.0 tests).


8k is part of the HDMI 2.1 specifications (8k60 and 4k120 resolutions with uncompressed 8k video/HDR). So to advertise an 8k capable HDMI cable implies HDMI 2.1 which is misleading. Especially when the product descriptions mention some of the HDMI 2.1 options sets. You are correct about the MavisLink cable link not be advertised as 8k. My mistake. I mis-read it. They did have an advertised HDMI 2.1 compliant cable at one time that has since been pulled, or they changed the product description.

4k HDR (HDMI 2.0) can difficult for any cable type at distances longer than about 25' so the recommendation is a fiber cable, preferably a hybrid fiber cable. The cables are active so they can not get official (ATC) certification so independent validation, like what ARROW-AV is doing is important. Unfortunately the product description lines are getting blurred by some of the mfrs with HDMI 2.1 and HDMI 2.0. Future proofing can really only be accomplished by having easy access to your cables or to run them in a conduit. It will still be trial and error.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> NOTE: for the first two cables (MavisLink and Bifale), they are 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps cables, so your statement about not being able to test HDMI 2.1 capability does not make sense. For the second two cables, all we would really care about in this thread is how well these claimed HDMI 2.1 cables did on backwards compatability (i.e. how well did the do an HDMI 2.0 tests).
> 
> 
> 
> 8k is part of the HDMI 2.1 specifications (8k60 and 4k120 resolutions with uncompressed 8k video/HDR).
Click to expand...

I agree. But for the purpose of this thread let's stick to discussion of the 4k HDMI 2.0 capability of each cable (no matter what the manufacturer claim on the cable says). Let's let the sister thread on 8k HDMI 2.1 cables handle all the discussion about the new HDMI 2.1 features and testing. It will help prevent the confusion you mention around the two topics if we too keep the discussion separate.



Otto Pylot said:


> You are correct about the MavisLink cable link not be advertised as 8k. My mistake. I mis-read it.


I'm actually correct on both the MavisLink and Bifale cables. The two I posted are both advertised as 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 cables. I posted two Bifale cables, the other is their 8k HDMI 2.1 offering. Nonetheless, the HDMI 2.1 designation isn't relevant for this thread. For this thread what we care about is 4k HDMI 2.0 results. Readers of this thread just want a long 4k HDMI 2.0 cable that works. There are so many advertised long cables that only partially work. I've wasted some money on buying cables that didn't. This thread helps prevent that, and I wish I would have found it sooner.



Otto Pylot said:


> 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0) can difficult for any cable type at distances longer than about 25' so the recommendation is a fiber cable, preferably a hybrid fiber cable. The cables are active so they can not get official (ATC) certification so independent validation, like what ARROW-AV is doing is important. Unfortunately the product description lines are getting blurred by some of the mfrs with HDMI 2.1 and HDMI 2.0.


Agreed. This is all relevant information, but has already been stated in this thread many times, including on the first article in this thread. Repeating it here doesn't add any value to the conversation about posting and asking ARROW-AV to test newer (and possibly less expensive) options for long 4k HDMI 2.0 cables.



Otto Pylot said:


> Future proofing can really only be accomplished by having easy access to your cables or to run them in a conduit. It will still be trial and error.


Agreed. But again, future-prooding and conduit is duplicate information and again not that relevant to my original post that spurred this conversation. All we really care about in this thread is, which advertised long 4k HDMI 2.0 cables actually work? And do these new cables I found and posted work (i.e. could ARROW-AV get them and test then for us and post results here).

So, in summary the point of my post is in-line with this thread: for those of us buying and installing a cable today for 4k HDMI 2.0 use, what are our options that actually work, and do any of the new (and lower prices options) actually work. And even if the new ones do pass all tests are there any other benefits or drawbacks to the newer, cheaper, cables?


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> So, in summary the point of my post is in-line with this thread: for those of us buying and installing a cable today for 4k HDMI 2.0 use, what are our options that actually work, and do any of the new (and lower prices options) actually work. And even if the new ones do pass all tests are there any other benefits or drawbacks to the newer, cheaper, cables?


The bottom line is if the cable works as expected, regardless of cost, that's all that matters. Consumers just need to carefully read all of the product descriptions and try not to get caught up in the "future proofing" claims or claims that have not been validated, either by standardized testing or in actual user environments.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> BakeApples said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have anyone tried the MavisLink fiber optic cable in 50ft length, you can see it at the bottom of the Amazon page linked here earlier for the RuiPro cable. It's more than half the cost compared to the RuiPro so i am curious to know if anyone here tried it?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QS98N68
> 
> 
> 
> It almost looks like a Ruipro4k knock-off, even down to the product images and how they are presented. Try it and let us know.
Click to expand...

I did, and it worked. Details below.

I ordered both the 50' RUIPRO 4k for $160 and the 50' MavisLink 4k for $65 (plus an additional 6% coupon) from Amazon. They came in identical slim black boxes: one with a full-color RUIPRO label, and one with a simple black and white MavisLink label. The MavisLink does appear to be a clone/copy/knock-off.

The MavisLink works just fine for 4k24 4:4:4 12-bit, and 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 (which requires 18GHz) on my Panasonic UB820, Apple TV 4k, and Fire TV 4k (all hooked up to my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver). The 50' cable is connected through my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver on HDMI2 out to my Epson 5050UB projector. I also tried the cable on HDMI1 out with my LG C8 65" OLED and it worked fine there too and ARC worked too. My original KabelDirekt 50' passive/copper cable could not handle any mode that required more than about 9gbps to either my TV or projector.

So, I'm going to run the MavisLink through the walls and ceiling, and if all goes well (if it survives the process), I'll return the RUIPRO cable to Amazon unopened.

So, +1 for the 50' MavisLink 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps hybrid fiber cable for $65.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> I did, and it worked. Details below.
> 
> I ordered both the 50' RUIPRO 4k for $160 and the 50' MavisLink 4k for $65 (plus an additional 6% coupon) from Amazon. They came in identical slim black boxes: one with a full-color RUIPRO label, and one with a simple black and white MavisLink label. The MavisLink does appear to be a clone/copy/knock-off.
> 
> The MavisLink works just fine for 4k24 4:4:4 12-bit, and 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 (which requires 18GHz) on my Panasonic UB820, Apple TV 4k, and Fire TV 4k (all hooked up to my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver). The 50' cable is connected through my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver on HDMI2 out to my Epson 5050UB projector. I also tried the cable on HDMI1 out with my LG C8 65" OLED and it worked fine there too and ARC worked too. My original KabelDirekt 50' passive/copper cable could not handle any mode that required more than about 9gbps to either my TV or projector.
> 
> So, I'm going to run the MavisLink through the walls and ceiling, and if all goes well (if it survives the process), I'll return the RUIPRO cable to Amazon unopened.
> 
> So, +1 for the 50' MavisLink 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps hybrid fiber cable for $65.


If you run the cable thru the walls and ceiling, make sure you use a conduit with a pull string for future cable pulls and upgrades because chances are you will be swapping out the cable in the future. Using a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling and makes for a much safer installation and easier to control bend radius. The chipsets in the Ruipro4k connector ends are proprietary so it is doubtful that the MavisLink cable has the same chips in them. Good luck.


----------



## BakeApples

jch2 said:


> I did, and it worked. Details below.
> 
> I ordered both the 50' RUIPRO 4k for $160 and the 50' MavisLink 4k for $65 (plus an additional 6% coupon) from Amazon. They came in identical slim black boxes: one with a full-color RUIPRO label, and one with a simple black and white MavisLink label. The MavisLink does appear to be a clone/copy/knock-off.
> 
> The MavisLink works just fine for 4k24 4:4:4 12-bit, and 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 (which requires 18GHz) on my Panasonic UB820, Apple TV 4k, and Fire TV 4k (all hooked up to my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver). The 50' cable is connected through my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver on HDMI2 out to my Epson 5050UB projector. I also tried the cable on HDMI1 out with my LG C8 65" OLED and it worked fine there too and ARC worked too. My original KabelDirekt 50' passive/copper cable could not handle any mode that required more than about 9gbps to either my TV or projector.
> 
> So, I'm going to run the MavisLink through the walls and ceiling, and if all goes well (if it survives the process), I'll return the RUIPRO cable to Amazon unopened.
> 
> So, +1 for the 50' MavisLink 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps hybrid fiber cable for $65.



Thanks for the feedback. I already ordered and have received the MavisLink 50ft cable but have not tried it yet because i am waiting for delivery of my projector. But it`s nice to hear that it worked good with your setup.


----------



## Otto Pylot

BakeApples said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I already ordered and have received the MavisLink 50ft cable but have not tried it yet because i am waiting for delivery of my projector. But it`s nice to hear that it worked good with your setup.


 @jch2 - As a side note, I have a colleague who has disassembled the source and sink ends of the MavisLink and Ruipro4k cables out of curiosity. Even to a non-engineer, the quality of build of the Ruipro cables is noticeably better, even down to the soldering of the wires to the board and the number of components used. The cables will work but longevity (reliability) will probably be no where near what the higher quality Ruipro cable will offer.


----------



## jch2

I'm having issues with the MavisLink 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. So, I opened up and swapped in the RUIPRRO 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. And I had the same problem. I went back to my KabelDirekt 50' passive cable, and it did not exhibit the same symptoms. So, it has something to do with the active cables not behaving properly.

Here's the scenario. I have several sources connected to my Yamaha RX-A3070 receiver:
AV1: Pananasonic UB820 Blu-ray player
AV2: DISH Network Hopper 3
AV3: Apple TV 4k
AV4: Fire TV Stick 4k

I have my LG C8 65" OLED connected to HDMI1 out and my new Epson 5050UB connected to HDMI2 out. HDMI2 out is configured to output whatever is on main (so output the same as HDMI1) and audio is turned off (i.e. the receiver never sends the audio stream to the projector). The 50' HDMI cable is connected between the receiver's HDMI2 out and the Epson 5050UB projector on HDMI1 in.

Before I begin, I power cycle everything by removing power to everything, and then restoring power to everything. This just makes sure everything is reset, including any cached HDMI data.

I start watching my DISH Hopper 3 on a 1080i source (so, low bandwidth, no HDMI 2.0 features active, and no HDCP active). I start with only the LG turned on and everything works fine. The receiver shows it has an HDMI In and it is outputting on HDMI1 out. I then turn on the projector and I get images on on both the LG and projector and the receiver shows it is outputting on HDMI1 and HDMI2. I then turn off the TV, and the receiver shows output in HDMI2 only and I have audio through the speakers and an image in the projector only. So far so good!

Now the problem:

I then turn off the projector (it goes into standby) and turn on the LG. With the 50' passive cable connected all works fine. I get indicators on the receiver that HDMI In is active and HDMI1 out is active and HDMI2 is not showing active. I have audio through the speakers and video on the LG.

However, with either the MavisLink or RUIPRO hybrid fiber cables connected the receiver shows it has an HDMI input and it is outputting to HDMI1, but the HDMI2 out indicator is flashing on and off quickly (once or more per second). Then the HDMI2 indicator stops and starts flashing slowly, once on, a couple seconds go by, then off, then a couple more seconds. It repeats that pattern of slow on/off blinking for about three times. The HDMI is working in the meantime: I have audio through the receiver speakers and video on the LG.

Then the really bad part starts. The HDMI indicators on the receiver for both in and out all go dark. I lose audio on the receiver and video on the LG. It sits blank, for more than 30 seconds. Sometimes it will start the process over and then ultimately fail again. If switch inputs and back again, the process starts over but eventually fails. If disconnect the HDMI2 50' active fiber cable, it resyncs and everything works and stays that way. If I then plug the HDMI2 active fiber cable back in, the process starts over again and things fail. If I remove power from the projector (unplug it), everything works fine. But once I plug the projector back in, the problem starts again. This is true for both the MavisLink and RUIPRO active fiber cables. The passive cable works fine and doesn't exhibit any of these symptoms.

The firmware is up to date on the Epson 5050UB (v1.01), the RX-A3070 (v2.70) and my LG C8 TV (v05.10.20).

From this I can conclude that the active fiber cables aren't recognizing the projector's standby state properly and are telling the receiver to try to sync with it. It tries and fails. Once I cut power to the projector completely (pull the plug) the active fiber cables recognize the state of the device on the far end and correctly convince the receiver there is nothing active on the line and the receiver doesn't try (and thus fail) to sync with the proejctor on HDMI2 out.

I have HDMI CEC on the projector off (but have tried it with it on, same result).

I notice a lot of the new active fiber cable offerings say only direct source to display is supported, and having an AV receiver in the loop or an HDMI splitter is not supported. I wonder if that's because of the issue I'm experiencing. The MavisLink and RUIPRO did not have those disclaimers (that's why I tried them) but they both appear to have the same problem in my setup.

So, I can't use the 50' passive copper HDMI KabelDirekt cable because it won't pass any high bitrate 4k resolutions (4k60 8-bit 4:2:0 is the best it can manage). And the active fiber cables only work if I unplug the cables from the back of the AV receiver or unplug the projector from the wall in order when I want to watch my LG TV.

Any suggestions on what I can try? If I can't get these active fiber cables to work I might have to try some other of the new active fiber cable options, or try one of the passive cable signal boosters.

Thanks!

-J.C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> I'm having issues with the MavisLink 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. So, I opened up and swapped in the RUIPRRO 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. And I had the same problem. I went back to my KabelDirekt 50' passive cable, and it did not exhibit the same symptoms. So, it has something to do with the active cables not behaving properly.


We have seen this type of issue before with pj's and active cables. Both active cables should work with a receiver in-between, at least in theory. 50' is going to be tough for any cable type. The problem may be HDMI input voltage related on the pj side. You might want to try a voltage inserter at the pj end. It's a separate dongle-like device, that requires power itself, but it does provide a constant 5v to the cable. That's what an HDMI input does as well but if it is out of spec or fluctuates, that may affect the active circuitry in the sink end of the cable.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having issues with the MavisLink 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. So, I opened up and swapped in the RUIPRRO 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. And I had the same problem. I went back to my KabelDirekt 50' passive cable, and it did not exhibit the same symptoms. So, it has something to do with the active cables not behaving properly.
> 
> 
> 
> We have seen this type of issue before with pj's and active cables. Both active cables should work with a receiver in-between, at least in theory. 50' is going to be tough for any cable type. The problem may be HDMI input voltage related on the pj side. You might want to try a voltage inserter at the pj end. It's a separate dongle-like device, that requires power itself, but it does provide a constant 5v to the cable. That's what an HDMI input does as well but if it is out of spec or fluctuates, that may affect the active circuitry in the sink end of the cable.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a product manufacturer and model, or better a link, or best an Amazon link, to a product that does this?

RUIPRO support suggested I buy this for $9.99. it'll be here in 3-5 days. Once I get it and test it, I will post a follow up:

RUIPRO 5V USB power insertor with standard Female HDMI to Male HDMI port:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XX5T43B/


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Can you provide a product manufacturer and model, or better a link, or best an Amazon link, to a product that does this?
> 
> RUIPRO support suggested I buy this for $9.99. it'll be here in 3-5 days. Once I get it and test it, I will post a follow up:
> 
> RUIPRO 5V USB power insertor with standard Female HDMI to Male HDMI port:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XX5T43B/


Google is your friend. Start with the Ruipro product and see how that works. It should work with the Ruipro cable and even the cheaper MavisLink knock-off cable.


----------



## jch2

Over in the Epson 5050UB thread someone suggested using the Blue Jeans Series-3 (or also the Series-3A) active copper cables in conjunction with my setup.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...on-5050ub-6050ub-thread-134.html#post58716962

Here's the direct link to the info page:

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/series3a.htm

And direct link to the product ordering page (Note: due to a bug on their website this page won't display the Series-3 cables if on the mobile site, you need to access the desktop version of the site):

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm

Does anyone have any experience with the 40' or 50' versions of these cables?

-J.C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Over in the Epson 5050UB thread someone suggested using the Blue Jeans Series-3 (or also the Series-3A) active copper cables in conjunction with my setup.
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...on-5050ub-6050ub-thread-134.html#post58716962
> 
> Here's the direct link to the info page:
> 
> https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/series3a.htm
> 
> And direct link to the product ordering page (Note: due to a bug on their website this page won't display the Series-3 cables if on the mobile site, you need to access the desktop version of the site):
> 
> https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with the 40' or 50' versions of these cables?
> 
> -J.C.


BJC makes good cables. I've used their Premium High Speed cables in the past and they worked without any issues. However, that was for runs under 25'. As we have pointed out many times, distance is the achilles heel of 4k HDR. 40' - 50' is pushing the limit for copper based cables, even active ones. Depending on how robust the chipsets are in the sink end of the cable you may or may not have any issues, as they are active cables just like the Ruipro and MavisLink. Everybody's setup and equipment is different so all you can do is try. There are no guarantees for long runs. You can thank HDMI.org for that!


----------



## BakeApples

jch2 said:


> I'm having issues with the MavisLink 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. So, I opened up and swapped in the RUIPRRO 50' 4k HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. And I had the same problem. I went back to my KabelDirekt 50' passive cable, and it did not exhibit the same symptoms. So, it has something to do with the active cables not behaving properly.


Sorry to hear that. Looks like there could be some issues with these active cables and certain equipment. I received my Sony 4k projector today and did a quick test connecting the Mavislink between display and source (AppleTV 4K). No issues at all but unfortunately i couldn't test with receiver in between. I will use a Sony HT-ST5000 soundbar in my setup and connect all sources and display to this so hopefully this will work.

Will report my findings here when i've had the chance to test this.


----------



## jch2

I have an update to my HDMI cable issue. I've tested the BJC and also and HDMI repeater on the passive cable, all with the same results. I also tested my old projector with an active cable, same results. So, I've narrowed it down to the Yamaha dual HDMI outputs (i.e. built-in splitter) not playing well with a TV connected to HDMI out 1 and a projector connected over an active cable on HDMI out 2, but only when the TV is on, and the projector is plugged into power but is in standby mode. See here for my updated findings. I've opened a case with Yamaha support and will let you know what I find.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...ners-thread-168.html#/topics/2831721?page=504


----------



## Mr.G

jch2 said:


> I have an update to my HDMI cable issue. I've tested the BJC and also and HDMI repeater on the passive cable, all with the same results. I also tested my old projector with an active cable, same results. So, I've narrowed it down to the Yamaha dual HDMI outputs (i.e. built-in splitter) not playing well with a TV connected to HDMI out 1 and a projector connected over an active cable on HDMI out 2, but only when the TV is on, and the projector is plugged into power but is in standby mode. See here for my updated findings. I've opened a case with Yamaha support and will let you know what I find.
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...ners-thread-168.html#/topics/2831721?page=504


I wouldn't expect a solution from Yamaha since it involves the built-in chipset. I had a similar problem with my Denon and then my Onkyo AVR. Dual HDMI outputs can be buggy when used with active cables, in my case the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid. I got blinking on/off video and sound on the Denon when both the 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma TV were on at the same time. When I upgraded to a new Onkyo receiver the Ruipro worked fine except that the Onkyo dual outputs would only do 1080p when the older Panasonic set was connected. My solution was a wireless power module that allowed me to disconnect power to the TV so that the Onkyo only saw the 4K projector allowing the full UHD resolution. I had none of these issues with my passive BJC 40 foot cable.


----------



## jch2

Mr.G said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an update to my HDMI cable issue. I've tested the BJC and also and HDMI repeater on the passive cable, all with the same results. I also tested my old projector with an active cable, same results. So, I've narrowed it down to the Yamaha dual HDMI outputs (i.e. built-in splitter) not playing well with a TV connected to HDMI out 1 and a projector connected over an active cable on HDMI out 2, but only when the TV is on, and the projector is plugged into power but is in standby mode. See here for my updated findings. I've opened a case with Yamaha support and will let you know what I find.
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...ners-thread-168.html#/topics/2831721?page=504
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't expect a solution from Yamaha since it involves the built-in chipset. I had a similar problem with my Denon and then my Onkyo AVR. Dual HDMI outputs can be buggy when used with active cables, in my case the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid. I got blinking on/off video and sound on the Denon when both the 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma TV were on at the same time. When I upgraded to a new Onkyo receiver the Ruipro worked fine except that the Onkyo dual outputs would only do 1080p when the older Panasonic set was connected. My solution was a wireless power module that allowed me to disconnect power to the TV so that the Onkyo only saw the 4K projector allowing the full UHD resolution. I had none of these issues with my passive BJC 40 foot cable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply!

Interesting solution. What wireless power switch did you go with?

I had the same idea last night and started looking at adding a wireless IR controlled outlet too, but to my projector so that I can just turn off the power to it when I want to watch TV. I'm looking for IR so I can control it with my Logitech Harmony remote.

The only IR controlled outlet I can find is the (discontinued) Xantech AC2. There are a few for sale on eBay.

Looks like I can also build my own with one of each of these:

Infrared Remote Control Relay Module 1CH 12V IR Wirless Receiver ON/OFF Relay Switch for Most Home Appliances with LED Indicators

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07QH6XP9P/

Iot Relay - Enclosed High-Power Power Relay for Arduino, Raspberry Pi, PIC or WiFi, Relay Shield

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00WV7GMA2/

I think I'd want a delayed shutdown though, like a 30-60 second delay after power off to let the projector's fans run after entering standby to dissippate heat, so I'll have to add a timer that allows the relay to power on instantly but adds delay to the power off.

I don't like the idea of having to kill the power to my projector, but if that's what it takes to make dual HDMI outputs work with active cables, then that's what I'll have to do.

And, I'm going to try one other option, an HDMI 5v power inserter that RUIPRO recommended:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XX5T43B/

I don't think it will fix the issue. However, I'm wondering, if I hook up that power inserter at the AV receiver, and then turn the inserter's power off, if the active cable will then lose power and stop confusing my Yamaha. If so, I'll just add the simple IR relay above to the power inserter instead and use like an on/off switch for the active cable. That will be much simpler solution and my projector will stay powered.

I'll reply when I have a working solution.

-J.C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mr.G said:


> I wouldn't expect a solution from Yamaha since it involves the built-in chipset. I had a similar problem with my Denon and then my Onkyo AVR. Dual HDMI outputs can be buggy when used with active cables, in my case the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid. I got blinking on/off video and sound on the Denon when both the 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma TV were on at the same time. When I upgraded to a new Onkyo receiver the Ruipro worked fine except that the Onkyo dual outputs would only do 1080p when the older Panasonic set was connected. My solution was a wireless power module that allowed me to disconnect power to the TV so that the Onkyo only saw the 4K projector allowing the full UHD resolution. I had none of these issues with my passive BJC 40 foot cable.


Agreed. We've seen similar issues with dual-HDM outs and just about any active cable. The prevailing thought, at least at the time, was that the dual HDMI outs share power somehow which, if you're using a power-sensitive cable (like an active cable), introduced too much fluctuation for the active chipsets.


----------



## Mr.G

jch2 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> Interesting solution. What wireless power switch did you go with?
> 
> -J.C.


Sorry it probably can't help you out since my solution was very low tech. A simple on/off switch the Etekcity remote.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> Mr.G said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't expect a solution from Yamaha since it involves the built-in chipset. I had a similar problem with my Denon and then my Onkyo AVR. Dual HDMI outputs can be buggy when used with active cables, in my case the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid. I got blinking on/off video and sound on the Denon when both the 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma TV were on at the same time. When I upgraded to a new Onkyo receiver the Ruipro worked fine except that the Onkyo dual outputs would only do 1080p when the older Panasonic set was connected. My solution was a wireless power module that allowed me to disconnect power to the TV so that the Onkyo only saw the 4K projector allowing the full UHD resolution. I had none of these issues with my passive BJC 40 foot cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. We've seen similar issues with dual-HDM outs and just about any active cable. The prevailing thought, at least at the time, was that the dual HDMI outs share power somehow which, if you're using a power-sensitive cable (like an active cable), introduced too much fluctuation for the active chipsets.
Click to expand...

If that's the case then the RUIPRO HDMI power inserter added at the AVR should solve the issue. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XX5T43B/

I have my doubts since I tried an HDMI repeater with my passive cable (the repeater had its own 5v power supply) and that also caused the same issue. I'll know for sure today, my RUIPRO power inserter arrives today.

If it doesn't solve the problem, I'll try using the power inserter as a power switch for the active HDMI cable, and I'll see if when I turn off power to the active cable completely if that solves the issue of the active cable confusing the AVR's dual HDMI outputs.

-J.C.


----------



## Mr.G

jch2 said:


> If that's the case then the RUIPRO HDMI power inserter added at the AVR should solve the issue.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XX5T43B/
> 
> I have my doubts since I tried an HDMI repeater with my passive cable (the repeater had its own 5v power supply) and that also caused the same issue. I'll know for sure today, my RUIPRO power inserter arrives today.
> 
> If it doesn't solve the problem, I'll try using the power inserter as a power switch for the active HDMI cable, and I'll see if turn off power to the cable completely will solve the issue of the active cable confusing the AVR's dual HDMI outputs.
> 
> -J.C.


I forgot to mention I tried a 5V power inserter but it failed to make any difference. YMMV.


----------



## Pip

jch2 said:


> I'm having issues ...
> 
> I have my LG C8 65" OLED connected to HDMI1 out and my new Epson 5050UB connected to HDMI2 out. ...
> ...
> -J.C.





Mr.G said:


> I wouldn't expect a solution from Yamaha since it involves the built-in chipset. I had a similar problem with my Denon and then my Onkyo AVR. Dual HDMI outputs can be buggy when used with active cables, in my case the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid. I got blinking on/off video and sound on the Denon when both the 4K projector and the 1080p Panasonic plasma TV were on at the same time. ....





Otto Pylot said:


> Agreed. We've seen similar issues with dual-HDM outs and just about any active cable. The prevailing thought, at least at the time, was that the dual HDMI outs share power somehow which, if you're using a power-sensitive cable (like an active cable), introduced too much fluctuation for the active chipsets.


I had these problems with the same scenario with a Denon receiver, so it's not just a Yamaha problem. Like you, I troubleshot the daylights out of this issue swapping out components and cables one at a time. Thinking it was a Denon problem, I even swapped in a Yamaha receiver. (same result) Like you, with a passive cable, there was never a problem. Like you, I needed the active cable for the bandwidth.

With any active cable to the projector, with the projector off, and both HDMI receiver outputs on, I would not get a proper signal to the TV. But, if I chose HDMI 1 output only (in this case the TV), I received signal to the TV no problem. I'm not certain of the Yamaha terminology, but mine allowed me to choose the HDMI outputs, either HDMI 1, HDMI 2, or HDMI Auto (both). Same choices with Denon - different terminology. 

For me this was an HDCP issue. If the source had HDCP, it would not work. With any non-HDCP source, there was never a problem. This indicated to me that with an active cable, and a display hooked up but not turned on, the receiver or HDCP source device was being told there was an HDMI connection to a non-HDCP compliant device, therefore it would not permit any HDCP display. I think this is just one more aspect of the disaster of HDCP.

My only solution was to choose only one HDMI output when using the TV.

To add even more confusion, with certain Denon firmware versions, this problem does not occur, and I can use an active cable with both HDMI outputs active, even with the projector off. Go figure.

My Denon is on it's 4th firmware. The problem did not occur with the first, and has not occurred (so far) with the 4th version. 

Good luck,

Pip


----------



## jch2

Mr.G said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> Interesting solution. What wireless power switch did you go with?
> 
> -J.C.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry it probably can't help you out since my solution was very low tech. A simple on/off switch the Etekcity remote.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I looked at those. That's 433.93 MHz RF, so hard to control with an IR remote system. Seems RF/WiFi/Z--Wave/ZigBee controlled power outlets are everywhere, but no IR!



Mr.G said:


> I forgot to mention I tried a 5V power inserter but it failed to make any difference. YMMV.


That's kind of what I'm expecting. Thank you for sharing your experience with this. I really appreciate it.

-J.C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The voltage inserter, similar to the Lindy CECless adapter, works for some folks and not for others. It's worth a shot just in case you're one of the lucky ones. Do let us know how it all works out and what you did to correct the issue, if anything at all.


----------



## jch2

Pip said:


> I had these problems with the same scenario with a Denon receiver, so it's not just a Yamaha problem. Like you, I troubleshot the daylights out of this issue swapping out components and cables one at a time. Thinking it was a Denon problem, I even swapped in a Yamaha receiver. (same result) Like you, with a passive cable, there was never a problem. Like you, I needed the active cable for the bandwidth.
> 
> With any active cable to the projector, with the projector off, and both HDMI receiver outputs on, I would not get a proper signal to the TV. But, if I chose HDMI 1 output only (in this case the TV), I received signal to the TV no problem. I'm not certain of the Yamaha terminology, but mine allowed me to choose the HDMI outputs, either HDMI 1, HDMI 2, or HDMI Auto (both). Same choices with Denon - different terminology.


I noticed that D+M had selectable HDMI out 1 / HDMI out 2 / HDMI out 1+2. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't have this capability. Yamaha always works only as the equivalent of the D+M 1+2 auto mode.



Pip said:


> For me this was an HDCP issue. If the source had HDCP, it would not work. With any non-HDCP source, there was never a problem. This indicated to me that with an active cable, and a display hooked up but not turned on, the receiver or HDCP source device was being told there was an HDMI connection to a non-HDCP compliant device, therefore it would not permit any HDCP display. I think this is just one more aspect of the disaster of HDCP.


This is what I'm suspecting too. And I agree, HDMI is cool, but a disaster (for more reasons than just HDCP, like not certifying the long cables needed to operate projectors).



Pip said:


> My only solution was to choose only one HDMI output when using the TV.
> 
> To add even more confusion, with certain Denon firmware versions, this problem does not occur, and I can use an active cable with both HDMI outputs active, even with the projector off. Go figure.
> 
> My Denon is on it's 4th firmware. The problem did not occur with the first, and has not occurred (so far) with the 4th version.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Pip


It's good D+M can fix HDMI issues with firmware updates. I hope Yamaha can too.

Looks like I might have to switch from Yamaha and go to Denon / Marantz. I've been looking at the AVR-X8500H and the AV8805. Which AVR are you using?

I'm in a holding pattern right now though waiting for the Monoprice HTP-1 to come out, and to read it's reviews. If it's good I'll try one with my setup and see how its dual-HDMI outputs work.

I have my fingers crossed for my idea of using a 5V power inserter as a switch and switching the power off to the active cable when the projector is not in use.

Thanks again for the reply. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person experiencing this issue. Your information is super-helpful. If D+M can fix this via a firmware upgrade, maybe I can get Yamaha to fix it in a firmware update too.

-J.C.


----------



## giomania

I also documented my issues in this thread with a 50-foot RuiPro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, and a Denon X3500H. I also tried the voltage inserter in an attempt to mitigate my issue, but to no avail. My solution was to set the Lumagen to output a maximum of 9GHz, and that solved it in my case.

Mark




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## jch2

I tested with the RUIPRO 5V power inserter, with all three active cables. It didn't solve the issue. Also, when I pulled the power on the inserter, nothing changed. I have independent confirmation of the issue from my Yamaha dealer (he tried it and got the same results).

So, I guess I will wait to see what Yamaha says in response to the case I opened with them last Thursday (no reply yet).

-J.C.


----------



## Pip

jch2 said:


> I noticed that D+M had selectable HDMI out 1 / HDMI out 2 / HDMI out 1+2. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't have this capability. Yamaha always works only as the equivalent of the D+M 1+2 auto mode.


I own two Yamaha receivers which can do this. Which model receiver do you have?



jch2 said:


> ....If D+M can fix this via a firmware upgrade, maybe I can get Yamaha to fix it in a firmware update too.
> 
> -J.C.


I doubt Denon actually "fixed" this deliberately. As it's worked in version 1 and 4, I think it's inadvertent.

Pip


----------



## Pip

jch2 said:


> I noticed that D+M had selectable HDMI out 1 / HDMI out 2 / HDMI out 1+2. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't have this capability. Yamaha always works only as the equivalent of the D+M 1+2 auto mode....
> 
> -J.C.




https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2632556&thumb=1

Pip


----------



## jch2

Pip said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that D+M had selectable HDMI out 1 / HDMI out 2 / HDMI out 1+2. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't have this capability. Yamaha always works only as the equivalent of the D+M 1+2 auto mode.
> 
> 
> 
> I own two Yamaha receivers which can do this. Which model receiver do you have?
Click to expand...

I own an RX-A3070, and a 3040, 3010, RX-Z9, DSP-A1, and several others. I'm using the RX-A3070 for this setup (only one with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2).

I have scoured the on screen menus and front panel and have never found a control. But low and behold, I just scoured the remote and found a button called HDMI out. One press shows the current mode. Pressing again while the display is up will toggle it from Off, 1+2, 1, 2. And it works. On HDMI 1 it ignores the active cable. Is this in the on screen UI someplace and I just missed it?

I even found discreet IR codes for HDMI out 1, or HMDI out 2:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?6470

Now I just need to add them to my Harmony activities as part of the startup. This is not as convenient as just having HDMI out 1+2 just work properly, but at least I have a workaround.

Thank you so much!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2632556&thumb=1
> 
> Pip


I have a Yamaha A-780 that has the same HDMI out configurations.


----------



## Malone99

Guys I'm sorry, I read back and searched but I couldn't find an answer so I'm just gunna ask it, I apologize if this has been answered before... I have a 25 foot Monoprice Cabernet active HDMI with the older Redmere chipset. I can't find any specs online anymore about it, can anyone tell me if it carries HDR/HDR10/HLG and 18 GB data? I'm upgrading my projector to a 4K and I'm gunna need all of these.... things. Thanks in advance for any info you guys can provide.


----------



## Malone99

Nevermind, my phone wouldn't open it but I just found the HDMI test results page on my computer and this cable fails in spectacular fashion. Sigh... cables that have to be fished through walls really shouldn't be going obsolete 4 years from inception... WELP... trying to fish another one of these through should be fun!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Malone99 said:


> Nevermind, my phone wouldn't open it but I just found the HDMI test results page on my computer and this cable fails in spectacular fashion. Sigh... cables that have to be fished through walls really shouldn't be going obsolete 4 years from inception... WELP... trying to fish another one of these through should be fun!


It’s probably a little late now but the recommendation for in-wall installation is to use a conduit for easier and safer cable installation. Connection technology will always lag behind video technology so planning ahead for cable upgrades is important. 

Longer than 25’ for 4K HDR the cable with a lot of favorable reviews is the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cable. However, the cable is active and there are reported issues with active cables and some projectors so that’s why using a conduit is advisable because there may be some trial and error in finding a cable that meets your expectations.


----------



## Franconian

I hope you guys here could help me, since I have a HDMI (Handshake?) issue with my Xbox One X which is connected with the original Xbox cable to a Denon AVR which is connected to a LG OLED B8 with a 3 meter / 10 feet Amazon Basics High Speed HDMI cable.


Once in a while when playing a game with HDR the screen goes black for a second, the HDR logo shows from the TV and picture is up again. I can't reproduce it, it's only in some HDR games (RDR 2, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Borderlands 3, CoD Modern Warfare, but not in Gears 4/5, Forza Horizon 4 or AC Odyssey) and sometimes I play for hours and days and have nothing, sometimes its like one drop in one hour.



I read a lot of this issue but nothing really helps, I even tried switching between 8bit and 10bit or swithing Y4:2:2 on or off in the Xbox settings.



I haven't encountered any problems when playing 4K files with my media player yet which is connected to the Denon, its only the Xbox.


I found a video that shows the same issue with a different TV, it's shown at timecode 5:21









Are there any "18gbps torture test files" available so I can check if it's the Amazon cable? Unfortunately I don't have the Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk UHD mentioned here.

I am already considering buying a certified premium HDMI cable with 10 feet (I need a little more than the common 6 feet because of my TV Rack an cable canals) or a fiber HDMI cable like this from Azebee that some projector owners are using but I don't know how to force test this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L2Y2BGM/ref=twister_B07ZM76GHJ


Thanks in advance.


----------



## wanab

Franconian said:


> I hope you guys here could help me, since I have a HDMI (Handshake?) issue with my Xbox One X which is connected with the original Xbox cable to a Denon AVR which is connected to a LG OLED B8 with a 3 meter / 10 feet Amazon Basics High Speed HDMI cable.
> 
> 
> Once in a while when playing a game with HDR the screen goes black for a second, the HDR logo shows from the TV and picture is up again. I can't reproduce it, it's only in some HDR games (RDR 2, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Borderlands 3, CoD Modern Warfare, but not in Gears 4/5, Forza Horizon 4 or AC Odyssey) and sometimes I play for hours and days and have nothing, sometimes its like one drop in one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> I read a lot of this issue but nothing really helps, I even tried switching between 8bit and 10bit or swithing Y4:2:2 on or off in the Xbox settings.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't encountered any problems when playing 4K files with my media player yet which is connected to the Denon, its only the Xbox.
> 
> 
> I found a video that shows the same issue with a different TV, it's shown at timecode 5:21
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qW0JnyTjfA
> 
> 
> Are there any "18gbps torture test files" available so I can check if it's the Amazon cable? Unfortunately I don't have the Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk UHD mentioned here.
> 
> I am already considering buying a certified premium HDMI cable with 10 feet (I need a little more than the common 6 feet because of my TV Rack an cable canals) or a fiber HDMI cable like this from Azebee that some projector owners are using but I don't know how to force test this.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L2Y2BGM/ref=twister_B07ZM76GHJ
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


check this out on amazon DTECH 10 Meter Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K 60Hz 18Gbps HDR 444 422 420 Sub-Sampling High Speed in-Wall Rated this is flawless.....noticed now it is 40% less now than what I paid for last year...can't go wrong...


----------



## wanab

Franconian said:


> I hope you guys here could help me, since I have a HDMI (Handshake?) issue with my Xbox One X which is connected with the original Xbox cable to a Denon AVR which is connected to a LG OLED B8 with a 3 meter / 10 feet Amazon Basics High Speed HDMI cable.
> 
> 
> Once in a while when playing a game with HDR the screen goes black for a second, the HDR logo shows from the TV and picture is up again. I can't reproduce it, it's only in some HDR games (RDR 2, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Borderlands 3, CoD Modern Warfare, but not in Gears 4/5, Forza Horizon 4 or AC Odyssey) and sometimes I play for hours and days and have nothing, sometimes its like one drop in one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> I read a lot of this issue but nothing really helps, I even tried switching between 8bit and 10bit or swithing Y4:2:2 on or off in the Xbox settings.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't encountered any problems when playing 4K files with my media player yet which is connected to the Denon, its only the Xbox.
> 
> 
> I found a video that shows the same issue with a different TV, it's shown at timecode 5:21
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qW0JnyTjfA
> 
> 
> Are there any "18gbps torture test files" available so I can check if it's the Amazon cable? Unfortunately I don't have the Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk UHD mentioned here.
> 
> I am already considering buying a certified premium HDMI cable with 10 feet (I need a little more than the common 6 feet because of my TV Rack an cable canals) or a fiber HDMI cable like this from Azebee that some projector owners are using but I don't know how to force test this.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L2Y2BGM/ref=twister_B07ZM76GHJ
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


check this out on amazon DTECH 10 Meter Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K 60Hz 18Gbps HDR 444 422 420 Sub-Sampling High Speed in-Wall Rated this is flawless.....noticed now it is 40% less now than what I paid for last year...can't go wrong...


----------



## Pip

Franconian said:


> I hope you guys here could help me, since I have a HDMI (Handshake?) issue with my Xbox One X which is connected with the original Xbox cable to a Denon AVR which is connected to a LG OLED B8 with a 3 meter / 10 feet Amazon Basics High Speed HDMI cable....
> 
> I am already considering buying a certified premium HDMI cable with 10 feet... or a fiber HDMI cable...





wanab said:


> check this out on amazon DTECH 10 Meter Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K 60Hz 18Gbps HDR 444 422 420 Sub-Sampling High Speed in-Wall Rated this is flawless.....noticed now it is 40% less now than what I paid for last year...can't go wrong...


Just a heads up: I bought the 15 meter length of this cable and mine did not pass the full 18Gbps. YMMV. 

Fibre cables are thin, flexible, and a pleasure are to install; but all active cables can add other issues (as searching this thread will show). At only ten feet, I think you're better off with a passive cable. All Certified Premium cables have been (independently) tested to pass 18Gbps. You can buy any one. If that doesn't solve your problem, you will know it's not a cable issue. 

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> Just a heads up: I bought the 15 meter length of this cable and mine did not pass the full 18Gbps. YMMV.
> 
> Fibre cables are thin, flexible, and a pleasure are to install; but all active cables can add other issues (as searching this thread will show). At only ten feet, I think you're better off with a passive cable. All Certified Premium cables have been (independently) tested to pass 18Gbps. You can buy any one. If that doesn't solve your problem, you will know it's not a cable issue.
> 
> Pip


I agree. Just purchase a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label for authenticity). They have been certified by HDMI.org to meet ALL HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. Pay attention to bend radius and give yourself enough slack so that there is no undue strain on the HDMI input. At your length, a fiber or hybrid fiber cable is an overkill. You won't get any better performance than a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. I've used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables as well as Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables, both at the same lengths, on my system and saw no difference in performance. As a side note, Ruipro4k cables are tested by an ATC but can not get the Certified label because HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active copper-only, fiber, or hybrid fiber cables, yet.

There are more reports about the Xbox One having issues so it may be a setting somewhere. What is the cable length from the XBox One to the avr? Are all of your HDMI connected devices using the same HDMI hardware version?


----------



## Franconian

Thanks for the heads up with the cables. I will try a certified cable first. 

The cable from the Xbox is 6 feet.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Franconian said:


> Thanks for the heads up with the cables. I will try a certified cable first.
> 
> The cable from the Xbox is 6 feet.


Good. Keep in mind that no cable, certified or not, can offer a 100% guarantee that it will work for any given setup. The cable is just the data pipe. There are other factors that also come into play for a successful cable run.


----------



## BakeApples

BakeApples said:


> Sorry to hear that. Looks like there could be some issues with these active cables and certain equipment. I received my Sony 4k projector today and did a quick test connecting the Mavislink between display and source (AppleTV 4K). No issues at all but unfortunately i couldn't test with receiver in between. I will use a Sony HT-ST5000 soundbar in my setup and connect all sources and display to this so hopefully this will work.
> 
> Will report my findings here when i've had the chance to test this.


A quick update on my tests with the MavisLink active cable. I have now used this cable in my setup with a Sony soundbar in-between the display & source and there has been absolutely zero issues since start. Very happy with this cable and it was a night & day difference to install it compared to the thick copper cables i`ve used in the past.

Highly recommend the MavisLink if anyone needs a good 50ft cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

BakeApples said:


> A quick update on my tests with the MavisLink active cable. I have now used this cable in my setup with a Sony soundbar in-between the display & source and there has been absolutely zero issues since start. Very happy with this cable and it was a night & day difference to install it compared to the thick copper cables i`ve used in the past.
> 
> Highly recommend the MavisLink if anyone needs a good 50ft cable


That's good to hear. Hopefully the cable will last. Just keep in mind that I've seen the connectors taken apart and compared to a more expensive hybrid fiber cable and the build quality, and number of components used is inferior to the higher priced cables. It is clearly a cheaper knock-off. But, if it works, for now, then that's all that matters.


----------



## pukrnukr

Just want to thank people in this thread who have been testing cables. After updating firmware and a full reset on my Pioneer Elite VSX LX301and changing cables to Vizio 65 PQX I finally have gotten Dolby Vision to work. I have Monoprice Dynamic View 8k cables from my 4k Apple TV and xbox one S to the pioneer and a Ruipro to the Vizio. Now just to get the Dolby Vision to not look washed out on the xbox which seems to be another common problem. The Apple TV looks fantastic though!


----------



## beastaudio

Has anyone tested the monoprice certified premium ultra slim cables? They are certified premium just like their standard ones so I would hope they are ok, just in a thinner sleeve. I asking for 3-5ft distances only, thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

beastaudio said:


> Has anyone tested the monoprice certified premium ultra slim cables? They are certified premium just like their standard ones so I would hope they are ok, just in a thinner sleeve. I asking for 3-5ft distances only, thanks.


At 5' you shouldn't have any issues at all. Just be mindful of bend radius.


----------



## helvetica bold

Here's a weird one... I tested 2, 6' Monoprice certifed cables and I couldn't get HDMI bitstream audio out from Xbox One X connected to my LG C9.However, when I used the Belkin Ultra HD High Speed Cable it worked. WHAT GIVES? Anyone else experience something like that?


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Here's a weird one... I tested 2, 6' Monoprice certifed cables and I couldn't get HDMI bitstream audio out from Xbox One X connected to my LG C9.However, when I used the Belkin Ultra HD High Speed Cable it worked. WHAT GIVES? Anyone else experience something like that?


Sounds like the typical HDMI b.s. mess that we're in. IOW, there's no rhyme or reason why that should be. Belkin makes good cables, and so does Monoprice (carries, not makes). If the Monoprice cables came with the QR label, and you scanned them to make sure they were legit, then especially at 6' you shouldn't have had any issues. When I was using BJC certified cables, at that length, I had zero issues on two different HTS's. A cable marketed as UHS doesn't really mean much at this point in time because 18Gbps is the maximum, standardized bandwidth. However, if it works then that's all that matters.


----------



## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> Sounds like the typical HDMI b.s. mess that we're in. IOW, there's no rhyme or reason why that should be. Belkin makes good cables, and so does Monoprice (carries, not makes). If the Monoprice cables came with the QR label, and you scanned them to make sure they were legit, then especially at 6' you shouldn't have had any issues. When I was using BJC certified cables, at that length, I had zero issues on two different HTS's. A cable marketed as UHS doesn't really mean much at this point in time because 18Gbps is the maximum, standardized bandwidth. However, if it works then that's all that matters.




Both Monoprice cables have codes. I ended up purchasing another overpriced Belkin but it does the job. I’m going to contact Monoprice and see if they will give me a refund or replacements.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Both Monoprice cables have codes. I ended up purchasing another overpriced Belkin but it does the job. I’m going to contact Monoprice and see if they will give me a refund or replacements.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd scan them none-the-less just to make sure. Monoprice should refund your money if they didn't perform as expected. I could see one of the cables being bad but two is really unusual, unless they both came from the same retailer. You might want to try BJC certified cables. They've always worked for me and they would be less expensive than the Belkin, at least they should.


----------



## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> I'd scan them none-the-less just to make sure. Monoprice should refund your money if they didn't perform as expected. I could see one of the cables being bad but two is really unusual, unless they both came from the same retailer. You might want to try BJC certified cables. They've always worked for me and they would be less expensive than the Belkin, at least they should.


Thanks for the advice! I just ordered a 2" BJC Belden Series-FE for my AVR into my TV. I don't trust Monoprice now so I'm replacing them. I already ordered the Belkin so I'll use that for my Xbox. I assume there's no issue with using different HDMI cables for home theater. 
I assume HDMI Bitstream output on the Xbox uses more bandwidth than uncompressed 2.0 stereo? 
That what started this issue.


----------



## ohiocardsfan

Hi,

I have a 30’ run between my Samsung Q90R and my PC so that I can game in 120Hz. After reading this thread I am undecided between the 50’ Mavislink And 50’ Ruipro 4K cable. Is the cost savings of the Mavislink worth it? Or should I go for higher quality. 

There is a bend on a corner of a door that I am concern about. Here is a picture of the bend that I will need. Can someone tell me if this bend is ok with the Ruipro or Mahislink cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Thanks for the advice! I just ordered a 2" BJC Belden Series-FE for my AVR into my TV. I don't trust Monoprice now so I'm replacing them. I already ordered the Belkin so I'll use that for my Xbox. I assume there's no issue with using different HDMI cables for home theater.
> I assume HDMI Bitstream output on the Xbox uses more bandwidth than uncompressed 2.0 stereo?
> That what started this issue.


I'm not sure what the bandwidth requirement is for bitstream but I'm sure it's well within the HDMI 2.0 specifications so it doesn't matter what Belkin claims their cables can handle (48Gbps?), it's the HDMI chipsets at the source/sink end that will determine if the signal error correction, timing requirements, etc meet specs passes the signal without issues. If all of your devices are utilizing the latest HDMI 2.0 chipsets, there shouldn't be any issues, especially at your lengths. BJC Belden Series-FE is what I've used in the past without any audio/video issues at all.

I prefer to keep all of my cables the same but it probably doesn't matter if you don't have any issues with a "mixed bag" of cables. I also keep my cable runs to a minimum length as long as the bend radius is gentle and there is no strain on the HDMI inputs.

I really dislike HDMI in general but it is what it is.


----------



## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm not sure what the bandwidth requirement is for bitstream but I'm sure it's well within the HDMI 2.0 specifications so it doesn't matter what Belkin claims their cables can handle (48Gbps?), it's the HDMI chipsets at the source/sink end that will determine if the signal error correction, timing requirements, etc meet specs passes the signal without issues. If all of your devices are utilizing the latest HDMI 2.0 chipsets, there shouldn't be any issues, especially at your lengths. BJC Belden Series-FE is what I've used in the past without any audio/video issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer to keep all of my cables the same but it probably doesn't matter if you don't have any issues with a "mixed bag" of cables. I also keep my cable runs to a minimum length as long as the bend radius is gentle and there is no strain on the HDMI inputs.
> 
> 
> 
> I really dislike HDMI in general but it is what it is.




It’s interesting to note that the 2 Monoprice cables that failed to pass Bitstream were bought a year apart. I requested a refund through Amazon/Monoprice support.
I don’t mind a mixed bag of cables for now.
I assume next year we’ll get true certified 
HDMI 2.1 cables at some.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> It’s interesting to note that the 2 Monoprice cables that failed to pass Bitstream were bought a year apart. I requested a refund through Amazon/Monoprice support.
> I don’t mind a mixed bag of cables for now.
> I assume next year we’ll get true certified
> HDMI 2.1 cables at some.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hopefully you'll get a nice CSA who will refund, or at the very least, credit you for future purchases. HDMI 2.1 certification by an ATC is coming for passive cables but the 48Gbps bandwidth required to fully utilize all of the option sets of HDMI 2.1 will probably be limited to the 9' maximum cable length as specified in the HDMI 2.1 specifications documentation, unless HDMI amends that. Certification has proven to be a bit more difficult than originally thought, mostly due to the lack of consumer devices and source material to test in a real world setting.


----------



## AnnapolisSony

Just an FYI...if anyone is in the market for a fiber HDMI RUIPRO cable, now is the time to jump on it. They are 20% off for cyber Monday and then a coupon allows you to take another 20% off as well. I just saved $50 on a 12M cable. 

RUIPRO ON AMAZON


----------



## Otto Pylot

AnnapolisSony said:


> Just an FYI...if anyone is in the market for a fiber HDMI RUIPRO cable, now is the time to jump on it. They are 20% off for cyber Monday and then a coupon allows you to take another 20% off as well. I just saved $50 on a 12M cable.
> 
> RUIPRO ON AMAZON


Nice find. It is the holiday season. Maybe that also means that their 8k cable is about ready to launch


----------



## Gouie

I’ve run into what appears to be a unique situation so I thought I’d share here. 

My setup is a Marantz 7703 connected to a JVC RS420 via the Ruipro 50ft fibre cable. My trial run had the cable connected to the projector directly from the Apple TV source. All worked fine. I then moved the cable from the Apple TV to the processor and had no picture. A few minutes later the projector shut down and threw an error code. It turns out the main board on the projector is damaged and requires replacement. 

The cause of the damage is one of two things, a faulty cable or the act of hot swapping the cable while both the source and display were powered on caused a surge above 5V or short some how. I will say that Ruipro really stepped up and reimbursed me for the cable, zero questions asked. 

Not sure where I’ll go from here regarding cable selection but thought I would share my experience.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gouie said:


> I’ve run into what appears to be a unique situation so I thought I’d share here.
> 
> My setup is a Marantz 7703 connected to a JVC RS420 via the Ruipro 50ft fibre cable. My trial run had the cable connected to the projector directly from the Apple TV source. All worked fine. I then moved the cable from the Apple TV to the processor and had no picture. A few minutes later the projector shut down and threw an error code. It turns out the main board on the projector is damaged and requires replacement.
> 
> The cause of the damage is one of two things, a faulty cable or the act of hot swapping the cable while both the source and display were powered on caused a surge above 5V or short some how. I will say that Ruipro really stepped up and reimbursed me for the cable, zero questions asked.
> 
> Not sure where I’ll go from here regarding cable selection but thought I would share my experience.



The general rule of thumb is that it is not a good idea to hot swap an HDMI cable, as you have discovered. I believe that most, if not all hybrid fiber cables are active so with that in mind, I'd just continue on with a new Ruipro4k cable and just shut everything down when making changes. Any mfr can have a defective cable but if you didn't have any issues before you hot swapped, and did afterwards, then I'd suspect is was the hot swapping and not necessarily a bad cable.


----------



## Gouie

Appreciate that, I’ve definitely learned from the experience. So, anxious as ever to know definitively what the root cause was, I dropped in an older 1080p projector I use camping. With everything powered down I plugged the Ruipro in and powered up. Wouldn’t you know it everything worked. 

Now the question is can I assume the cable is fine and continue on with it once the JVC is repaired? Regardless I’ll make things whole with Ruipro as they didn’t ask for the cable to be returned.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gouie said:


> Appreciate that, I’ve definitely learned from the experience. So, anxious as ever to know definitively what the root cause was, I dropped in an older 1080p projector I use camping. With everything powered down I plugged the Ruipro in and powered up. Wouldn’t you know it everything worked.
> 
> Now the question is can I assume the cable is fine and continue on with it once the JVC is repaired? Regardless I’ll make things whole with Ruipro as they didn’t ask for the cable to be returned.



I would think that if the active Ruipro cable worked with the older pj, the cable is fine as it is still drawing power from the HDMI input regardless of signal. Ruipro support is really good (I've worked with them in the past). Some folks have used an inline power adapter with active cables and that seems to have worked out. It's a separate dongle that goes between the HDMI input and the cable. The dongle is powered and supplies a constant 5v to the cable. However, not hot swapping is still the safest thing to do. All it takes is a little static charge and poof!, you have problems.


----------



## console

Gouie said:


> I’ve run into what appears to be a unique situation so I thought I’d share here.
> 
> My setup is a Marantz 7703 connected to a JVC RS420 via the Ruipro 50ft fibre cable. My trial run had the cable connected to the projector directly from the Apple TV source. All worked fine. I then moved the cable from the Apple TV to the processor and had no picture. A few minutes later the projector shut down and threw an error code. It turns out the main board on the projector is damaged and requires replacement.
> 
> The cause of the damage is one of two things, a faulty cable or the act of hot swapping the cable while both the source and display were powered on caused a surge above 5V or short some how. I will say that Ruipro really stepped up and reimbursed me for the cable, zero questions asked.
> 
> Not sure where I’ll go from here regarding cable selection but thought I would share my experience.


Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience. I've been hot swapping HDMI cables for years, but recently 2 of the inputs on my Marantz 8802a stopped working and I now think I know why. You have helped reinforce the fact that I'll never hot swap again! Best of luck on a speedy repair.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience. I've been hot swapping HDMI cables for years, but recently 2 of the inputs on my Marantz 8802a stopped working and I now think I know why. You have helped reinforce the fact that I'll never hot swap again! Best of luck on a speedy repair.



As mentioned above in post #1385 . Passive cables you may be able to get away a couple of times but with active cables, definitely not a good idea.


----------



## helvetica bold

Looks like we will get official HDMI 2.1 certified cables this summer (June). 

https://www.twice.com/industry/ces/...ble-certification-assures-hdmi-2-1-8k-support



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vader424242

Lucky Strike said:


> Thanks, thankfully I installed a 3" conduit and it's a straight run through the ceiling and then accessible from an adjacent unfinished room once it goes down the wall, this will be the second time i've swapped out a HDMI cable (first time was for a passive one to Redmere on a 1080p projector) and I'm so glad that I saw that advice on here about conduit before building out my room, definitely saved me $ in drywall repair.
> 
> The one amazon ad for 4k cable (this ad only has one length, 10M/32.8' length) does have model number SNAOC20V201A-10M
> 
> The other has model number SNAOC20142010 and this ad has multiple lengths (3m, 6m, 10m, 12m, 15m, up to 50m)
> 
> My current cable is 35' and it's got a little slack at the receiver and projector ends but for the most part is straight. I think stepping down to 32.8' will still work but things will be a little tight. Not to the point of putting stress on the connections but I'd likely have to reach behind the receiver and unplug the this cable if I ever wanted to turn the receiver around so I could take a look at the back or make connection changes...not that I do that often but it does happen.
> 
> That 12m length on the other ad is kind of intriguing though. Do you think that particular model number that has multiple lengths is for an older version of the cable? You think I'd be better served keeping my cable 6.5' shorter (shorter = potential for it to work better?) or giving myself a solid amount of slack at both ends?





Otto Pylot said:


> They should be the same cable. I pointed that out to Ruipro and they are aware of the confusion. It has something to do with who is reselling the cable and how they choose to advertise. To me, the product description should be as clear as glass but that's not always the case.
> 
> It's always a good idea to keep your cable length as short as is possible without affecting bend radius or putting any undo strain on the HDMI inputs. Fiber and hybrid fiber are active so they generally tend to have a thinner gauge wire and have more flexibility, just like their copper-only active counterparts, but it's still best to keep your run as short as is reasonable.



Hi,


To follow up with this, I ordered Ruipro cable (#SNAOC20V201A-10M) , but I still have not opened the package, so I wanna be sure before I do. According to the above, this should be the same cable as Ruipro #SNAOC20142010 . The pictures on Amazon are different (the end connectors are different), and while both claim a Lifetime Warranty, the one I ordered has "2 year warranty" on the package I received (as well as in the picture on Amazon). So, which is it? Are they the same cable, except for cosmetic differences? What is the Warranty? Thanks!


https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-4K60H...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1


https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Looks like we will get official HDMI 2.1 certified cables this summer (June).
> 
> https://www.twice.com/industry/ces/...ble-certification-assures-hdmi-2-1-8k-support
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah, HDMI.org has been working furiously with the ATC's to get this done and finalize certification so it sounds like they're almost there. However, pricing has yet to be established, at least publicly, so that may be a deterrent for some. Hopefully this will also curtail somewhat cable mfrs and resellers from using the term "Ultra High Speed" in their marketing without some clarification if their cables aren't certified by an ATC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vader424242 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> To follow up with this, I ordered Ruipro cable (#SNAOC20V201A-10M) , but I still have not opened the package, so I wanna be sure before I do. According to the above, this should be the same cable as Ruipro #SNAOC20142010 . The pictures on Amazon are different (the end connectors are different), and while both claim a Lifetime Warranty, the one I ordered has "2 year warranty" on the package I received (as well as in the picture on Amazon). So, which is it? Are they the same cable, except for cosmetic differences? What is the Warranty? Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been some time since I asked Ruipro about this so you might want to give them a call/email and see what they have to say. It could be that Ruipro wasn't quite happy with that particular batch of cable connector ends, even though they passed their very rigorous qc process and is selling them to resellers at a discount, hence the 2 year warranty label. They should still perform the same but I'd still check with them for sure. Their support is very responsive.


----------



## Vader424242

^^^ thx!


----------



## mrtickleuk

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, HDMI.org has been working furiously with the ATC's to get this done and finalize certification so it sounds like they're almost there. However, pricing has yet to be established, at least publicly, so that may be a deterrent for some. Hopefully this will also curtail somewhat cable mfrs and resellers from using the term "Ultra High Speed" in their marketing without some clarification if their cables aren't certified by an ATC.


By "furiously" I presume you mean angrily, and not quickly?  It was announced at CES 2019, a whole year ago! At that announcement I came away with the impression that it would happen mid-late 2019.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mrtickleuk said:


> By "furiously" I presume you mean angrily, and not quickly?  It was announced at CES 2019, a whole year ago! At that announcement I came away with the impression that it would happen mid-late 2019.


I was trying to be a bit polite and positive . But yeah, there have been lots of issues with just certifying the original length of 1m-3m as specified with passive cables. Longer lengths and active cables is still challenging. Of course not having any HDMI 2.1 certified devices and content to validate on has been the real stumbling block.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> ...Of course not having any HDMI 2.1 certified devices and content to validate on has been the real stumbling block.


Sigh. Not how this works. ATCs don’t test with “content” or real world source/sink devices or pass-through devices. They use specialized signal generators and receivers that test for carrying capacity and HDCP hand shaking. They don’t test content nor do they test devices. Products like KeySight’s testing solution (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-04619/application-notes/5992-0235.pdf) have been around for a while. The “hold up” likely has more to do with “2.1” ultra high speed cables being backwards compatible and industry big wigs wanting to clear out “2.0” high speed cable stock.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Sigh. Not how this works. ATCs don’t test with “content” or real world source/sink devices or pass-through devices. They use specialized signal generators and receivers that test for carrying capacity and HDCP hand shaking. They don’t test content nor do they test devices. Products like KeySight’s testing solution (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-04619/application-notes/5992-0235.pdf) have been around for a while. The “hold up” likely has more to do with “2.1” ultra high speed cables being backwards compatible and industry big wigs wanting to clear out “2.0” high speed cable stock.


I disagree. The ATC's test with HDMI.org approved equipment like the SL-870 eARC CTS Protocol Analyzer, the SL-8800 Plus Protocol Analyzer HDCP 2.2/2.3, and the
SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL Audio and Video Generator (AVG), following the standardized testing protocols designed by HDMI.org. However, if possible, testing with content (not commercially available yet but available to ATC's) on consumer devices (or devices headed to the consumer market) is strongly recommended, and is currently being done. The hold up has nothing to do with backwards compatibility or clearing out stock. Cables currently in the marketplace that claim HDMI 2.1 compliance for some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets are already backwards compatible with HDMI 2.0, if one want to pay the price of said cables. 

Other testing organizations have their own protocols and testing equipment to base their claims on, and they are probably valid. I'm not a big fan of HDMI.org and HDMI in general but at least their ATC's are based worldwide and are standardized so that anyone from anywhere can join the program and submit their products for testing.


----------



## Vader424242

Otto Pylot said:


> Vader424242 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It has been some time since I asked Ruipro about this so you might want to give them a call/email and see what they have to say. It could be that Ruipro wasn't quite happy with that particular batch of cable connector ends, even though they passed their very rigorous qc process and is selling them to resellers at a discount, hence the 2 year warranty label. They should still perform the same but I'd still check with them for sure. Their support is very responsive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Ruipro, the cables are indeed the same (for anyone else who finds the listings confusing), the only difference being the cable connector types, and the max bend radius at the ends....
Click to expand...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vader424242 said:


> Otto Pylot said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Ruipro, the cables are indeed the same (for anyone else who finds the listings confusing), the only difference being the cable connector types, and the max bend radius at the ends....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting back. I knew there were a couple of things about that particular model number but had forgot about the bend radius. However, the bend radius is still very generous so if you aren't installing them in a really tight place or in a conduit with really sharp bends you should be ok.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vader424242

^^^ Based on the warning on the packaging, the cable itself will tolerate even a right angle (90 degrees!), which I will not be coming close to... Can't wait to see if this fixes my drop-out problems!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vader424242 said:


> ^^^ Based on the warning on the packaging, the cable itself will tolerate even a right angle (90 degrees!), which I will not be coming close to... Can't wait to see if this fixes my drop-out problems!



FWIW, I have some 5' Ruipro4k cables as a test on my system, and I have them looped twice (about a 5-6" loop) because they are a bit long and they work just fine. The HDMI connection is nice and tight with zero stress. Do keep in mind that the 90 degree angle is a gentle one. It is not a sharp 90 degree angle. There is a difference.


----------



## lycokayaker

Im trying my luck on that one now... thanks for the advice! Hope it plays nice with my epson 5050ub and denon



996911 said:


> Can confirm that THIS RUIPRO worked flawlessly! Thanks for a great thread.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lycokayaker said:


> Im trying my luck on that one now... thanks for the advice! Hope it plays nice with my epson 5050ub and denon



Hopefully the Ruipro cable will work for you. There have been some reported issues of hybrid fiber cables (including Ruipro's) that have had issues with some projector's. Probably a power issue at the sink end HDMI input. Some have had luck using a power inserter with their pj if problems occurred. FWIW, I've been using the same Ruipro4k cables on my system for quite some time now and there have been zero issues. However, I am not using a pj.


----------



## lycokayaker

Thanks! I need all the good luck and help I can get this setup system I am doing seems to be fighting me tooth and nail every bit of the way. Doesn't help that this is my first go around on all of it. I bought the cable on amazon so if it doesn't work it will go back quickly

If it doesn't I will report back

bill



Otto Pylot said:


> Hopefully the Ruipro cable will work for you. There have been some reported issues of hybrid fiber cables (including Ruipro's) that have had issues with some projector's. Probably a power issue at the sink end HDMI input. Some have had luck using a power inserter with their pj if problems occurred. FWIW, I've been using the same Ruipro4k cables on my system for quite some time now and there have been zero issues. However, I am not using a pj.


----------



## Trainwrecker

Looking for suggestions, I am not looking to spend $300 on a pair of HDMI cables for a 4K setup and after reading too many posts, I am not getting anywhere. 



Denon X2600 to 4K to Sony ZF9. *25 feet*. I will need two cables, one from the AVR to the TV and one from the eARC on the TV back to the AVR. 



Looking at the Monoprice DynamicView Active, Luxe Series Active and the Hoss. Has anyone had success with these three cables in a 25' run? 



Thanks,


----------



## Otto Pylot

Trainwrecker said:


> Looking for suggestions, I am not looking to spend $300 on a pair of HDMI cables for a 4K setup and after reading too many posts, I am not getting anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Denon X2600 to 4K to Sony ZF9. *25 feet*. I will need two cables, one from the AVR to the TV and one from the eARC on the TV back to the AVR.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the Monoprice DynamicView Active, Luxe Series Active and the Hoss. Has anyone had success with these three cables in a 25' run?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,



All you can do is try. 25' is pushing the limit a bit for reliable eARC, even if your source and sink devices fully support eARC (which they should). What works for one person might not work for someone else so there are no blanket recommendations. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with QR label) should work but they are passive cables and at 25' maximum certifiable length, wire gauge/bend radius needs to be taken into consideration. Active cables can not be certified by an ATC so you're dependent upon the mfr and their claims. Active cables are also very dependent on the stability of the current output from the HDMI input and the longer the cable, the more critical that becomes. It also depends on the quality of the chipsets in the connector ends.


Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure but that's the reality of eARC and long cable runs. Is 25' the maximum length for both cables or is it 25' per cable?


----------



## exm

Trainwrecker said:


> Looking for suggestions, I am not looking to spend $300 on a pair of HDMI cables for a 4K setup and after reading too many posts, I am not getting anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Denon X2600 to 4K to Sony ZF9. *25 feet*. I will need two cables, one from the AVR to the TV and one from the eARC on the TV back to the AVR.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the Monoprice DynamicView Active, Luxe Series Active and the Hoss. Has anyone had success with these three cables in a 25' run?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,



I might be missing something, but why do you need 2 cables?


----------



## Trainwrecker

Thanks, 



Each cable is 25' 



Two cables, the "Monoprice DynamicView Active" cable is directional, so I would need one from each source, from the TV (apps) back to the AVR and one from the AVR to the TV, (Cable, and sources imputed to the AVR).


I thought 25' was on the "edge" for this, but people are running longer lengths. It's a roll of the dice it seems.


----------



## exm

Trainwrecker said:


> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Each cable is 25'
> 
> 
> 
> Two cables, the "Monoprice DynamicView Active" cable is directional, so I would need one from each source, from the TV (apps) back to the AVR and one from the AVR to the TV, (Cable, and sources imputed to the AVR).
> 
> 
> I thought 25' was on the "edge" for this, but people are running longer lengths. It's a roll of the dice it seems.



Why not buy the 10M/33F Ruipro cable? Granted it's $130 but you're done and you know the cable works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Trainwrecker said:


> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Each cable is 25'
> 
> 
> 
> Two cables, the "Monoprice DynamicView Active" cable is directional, so I would need one from each source, from the TV (apps) back to the AVR and one from the AVR to the TV, (Cable, and sources imputed to the AVR).
> 
> 
> I thought 25' was on the "edge" for this, but people are running longer lengths. It's a roll of the dice it seems.


25' x2 may be your issue, even with the receiver in the middle as the sink and source. 25' is the maximum ATC certifiable distance for passive cables. Longer than 25' is certainly possible, especially with active cables but there is no ATC (HDMI.org) program for those distances on passive cables and not at any distance for active cables be they copper-only or fiber/hybrid fiber. We recommend the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables a lot for over 20' because those cables have the most positive feedback from AVS users. They aren't perfect, no cable is, but they do seem to work well for a lot of folks given the wide variability in connected equipment and installations. ARC/eARC can be a problem for anyone regardless of the cable and is something that all cable mfrs are struggling with.

At 25' x 2, do you have easy access to your cabling or is there any in-wall installation?


----------



## Trainwrecker

Otto Pylot said:


> At 25' x 2, do you have easy access to your cabling or is there any in-wall installation?



I have 6 foot of wall on the TV side and 2 foot on the AVR side then across a crawl space. I would not call that "easy" but it could be worse.



As far as having 2 - 25ft cables, I do not see any choice with using just one since they are active/directional.


----------



## jk246

Trainwrecker said:


> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Each cable is 25'
> 
> 
> 
> Two cables, the "Monoprice DynamicView Active" cable is directional, so I would need one from each source, from the TV (apps) back to the AVR and one from the AVR to the TV, (Cable, and sources imputed to the AVR).
> 
> 
> I thought 25' was on the "edge" for this, but people are running longer lengths. It's a roll of the dice it seems.


Is this the cable you're talking about? 
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131

If it is, the product page specifically states:
"Supports up to 32 Channels with ARC for an immersive audio experience"

I think you have misunderstood how this cable works. Yes, it has to be installed in the proper orientation because the video signals have active equalization (which is a kind of variable amplification that theoretically does not attenuate the signals higher frequencies the way a passive cable does, and is unidirectional. ARC audio always comes from the receiving end, i.e. your TV. So, during 'normal' operation, the video from the source that is selected on your AV Receiver is sent to the TV on the AV Receiver's output cable, and audio from the selected source is stripped off in the AV Receiver and output thru your speakers. In 'ARC' mode, the TV the source of the video, and that is displayed on the TV screen, and the audio is sent up the cable's dedicated 'ARC' conductors to the AV Receiver where it is amplified and goes to your speakers, while the video conductors in the cable are not used in 'ARC' mode. So, ARC always goes in the opposite direction that the video goes. Were you thinking that because the cable is 'unidirectional', the the audio goes in the same direction as the video, or am I missing something here? I don't think your Denon AVR operates much differently than mine does.


----------



## jk246

jk246 said:


> Is this the cable you're talking about?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> If it is, the product page specifically states:
> "Supports up to 32 Channels with ARC for an immersive audio experience"
> 
> I think you have misunderstood how this cable works. Yes, it has to be installed in the proper orientation because the video signals have active equalization (which is a kind of variable amplification that theoretically does not attenuate the signals higher frequencies the way a passive cable does, and is unidirectional. ARC audio always comes from the receiving end, i.e. your TV. So, during 'normal' operation, the video from the source that is selected on your AV Receiver is sent to the TV on the AV Receiver's output cable, and audio from the selected source is stripped off in the AV Receiver and output thru your speakers. In 'ARC' mode, the TV the source of the video, and that is displayed on the TV screen, and the audio is sent up the cable's dedicated 'ARC' conductors to the AV Receiver where it is amplified and goes to your speakers, while the video conductors in the cable are not used in 'ARC' mode. So, ARC always goes in the opposite direction that the video goes. Were you thinking that because the cable is 'unidirectional', the the audio goes in the same direction as the video, or am I missing something here? I don't think your Denon AVR operates much differently than mine does.


Just a note, I haven't used the particular cables you are referring to, but I have used several kinds of monoprice active cables, some with the same chipset doing equalization; I'm pretty sure that ARC is implemented in the same way, and is passive, that is, without active equalization like the video paths are. The diameter of your cable is pretty small, and this has been the subject of some discussion between Otto and me, and he may want to weigh in on this as well. The cables I've had ARC problems with have all had smaller wire gauges that likely are not impedance-matched to the signal receiver in the AVR, and have a higher electrical resistance which results in signal level loss and less immunity from RF and AC interference. At shorter cable lengths this might not be significant, but it gets worse the longer the cable is. The other issue I have had with these monoprice cables with 'Redmere' or the newer version of that chipset called 'Spectra' appears to be aging; some of the cables appeared to work when I first got them, but over the next couple of weeks they started having signal dropouts. Make sure you check the return policy when you buy and be ready to return them while still under warranty to get a refund if you start having problems. All the active cables I bought were in the 10 meter range, and all of them were returned. What I did end up using is a Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 20 ft:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=15431&seq=1&format=2

which I bought in Feb. 2018 and had worked flawlessly for 2 years. It is a bigger diameter for sure, but it's been reliable. While the one I bought was 20 ft, they also come in 25 and 30 ft (not tested by me). The 20 ft cable costs $17.59, the 25 ft cable costs $23.39 and the 30 ft cable costs $26.18.


----------



## Trainwrecker

jk246 said:


> Is this the cable you're talking about?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14131
> 
> If it is, the product page specifically states:
> "Supports up to 32 Channels with ARC for an immersive audio experience"
> 
> I think you have misunderstood how this cable works.



That is a strong possibility! 

So that video would be sent to the TV over eARC port from the AVR. That is the confusion I have. The direction of the cable should then be from the AVR eARC to the TV's eARC port. Because that is the only video that I will be sending though the HDMI cable. 

The Audio from the TV eARC's port (will not be directional) and will pass back to the AVR eARC port when I use an App on the TV. 

Sorry about my level of understanding here. I would love to use just one HDMI cable for this setup. Just need to understand if the eARC port on the TV would receive video from the AVR's eARC post and also send the audio back though the same port when using the TV apps.


Thank you both for taking to time to respond. I appreciate it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Trainwrecker said:


> I have 6 foot of wall on the TV side and 2 foot on the AVR side then across a crawl space. I would not call that "easy" but it could be worse.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as having 2 - 25ft cables, I do not see any choice with using just one since they are active/directional.


If a conduit (Smurf tube or similar) hasn't been used to run your cabling, then installation will be difficult, but not impossible. The use of conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because it makes installing cable a lot easier and safer and you can control bend radius much better. Active cables are inherently slimmer but you still need to be aware of sharp, 90 degree bends and to not pull the cable by the connector ends.

As mentioned above, read your manuals on how to setup ARC and be mindful of which device is going to be the source and which one will be the sink. Active cables are labeled as Source on one end and either Display or Sink on the other end so the direction of the cable is always Source to Sink.


----------



## jk246

Trainwrecker said:


> That is a strong possibility!
> 
> So that video would be sent to the TV over eARC port from the AVR. That is the confusion I have. The direction of the cable should then be from the AVR eARC to the TV's eARC port. Because that is the only video that I will be sending though the HDMI cable.
> 
> The Audio from the TV eARC's port (will not be directional) and will pass back to the AVR eARC port when I use an App on the TV.
> 
> Sorry about my level of understanding here. I would love to use just one HDMI cable for this setup. Just need to understand if the eARC port on the TV would receive video from the AVR's eARC post and also send the audio back though the same port when using the TV apps.
> 
> 
> Thank you both for taking to time to respond. I appreciate it.


I tend to think of the port on the AVR as the 'Output with eARC Input' and the port on the TV as Input (1? or whatever port yours is) with eARC out, but you get the general idea. As long as you understand that 'Unidirectional' in this case really means that one end of the cable is marked 'AVR' and the other end of the cable is marked 'TV', and it won't work if you connect it in the opposite direction.

This forum is for the benefit of people that don't know everything, and if it was only for people that knew everything we wouldn't need a forum, would we? ...so don't be sorry


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> I tend to think of the port on the AVR as the 'Output with eARC Input' and the port on the TV as Input (1? or whatever port yours is) with eARC out, but you get the general idea. As long as you understand that 'Unidirectional' in this case really means that one end of the cable is marked 'AVR' and the other end of the cable is marked 'TV', and it won't work if you connect it in the opposite direction.
> 
> This forum is for the benefit of people that don't know everything, and if it was only for people that knew everything we wouldn't need a forum, would we? ...so don't be sorry



I agree. The only way to learn things is to ask questions. I'm constantly learning new things around here so keep asking away and don't apologize. AVR's in the middle of an active HDMI connection can be considered both source and sink. Sink when you connect an external device like a BD player or a streaming box (ATV4k for example) to it, the external device being the source. Source when you connect your AVR to your tv (sink). ARC allows for that bi-directional connection when you use the HDMI ports marked specifically for ARC and you configure your devices for an ARC connection. If you do install the cables backwards you won't damage anything you just won't get a connection if you have ARC enabled. If you don't enable ARC, then the HDMI inputs function like any other HDMI input/output.


----------



## K-Sci

*50' HDMI woes - need advice*

I'd like to cable a 50' distance for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI, preferably HDR and preferably with ARC. I've tested the following cables on the floor out of the box between PC and AVR and PC and two PC monitors. None of them could maintain a continuous 4K lock one way.



 Monoprice Hoss High Speed HDMI Cable - 50 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 (most recent).
 DELONG 50ft Long Fiber Optic HDMI Cable Support 4K UHD 60Hz at 18.2Gbps Ultra high Speed,Support 4K UHD/HDR/HDTV/3D IMAX/Dolby Vision. Tried twice.
 KabelDirekt 4K HDMI Cable with Full Metal Connectors - 50 feet (cable direct knock-off)

What should I try next so I don't have to return a 5th cable? I'm thinking 
Monoprice SlimRun fiberoptic, but it's very pricey and doesn't support ARC. 


Thanks in advance!


----------



## jch2

K-Sci said:


> I'd like to cable a 50' distance for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI, preferably HDR and preferably with ARC. I've tested the following cables on the floor out of the box between PC and AVR and PC and two PC monitors. None of them could maintain a continuous 4K lock one way.
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice Hoss High Speed HDMI Cable - 50 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 (most recent).
> DELONG 50ft Long Fiber Optic HDMI Cable Support 4K UHD 60Hz at 18.2Gbps Ultra high Speed,Support 4K UHD/HDR/HDTV/3D IMAX/Dolby Vision. Tried twice.
> KabelDirekt 4K HDMI Cable with Full Metal Connectors - 50 feet (cable direct knock-off)
> 
> What should I try next so I don't have to return a 5th cable? I'm thinking
> Monoprice SlimRun fiberoptic, but it's very pricey and doesn't support ARC.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance! /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


This thread is an amazing resource. However, not all cables have test reports, and a lot of cables that have come out recently work, but do not have test results in the thread (the OP stopped testing cables quite awhile back). There are posts about people having issues with the Monoprice SlimRun failing after some time. I just copy-pasted most of this text from my post in the Denon X8500H owner's thread where a person was having problems, most likely from a failed Monoprice 18gbps active cable, and @jdsmoothie (a very well respected AVSForum contributor) chimed in and said he's heard of other failures with that cable too. So, I can't recommend it.

The net result is that there are at least three good choices for 50' active HDMI 2.0 cables that I've actually tested and lots of people recommend, in order my recommendations are:

(1) Blue Jeans Cable 50' Series-3A active copper ($80), sturdy but thick and doesn't bend well, great customer service and return policy

(2) RUIPRO 50' Active hybrid fiber cable ($160), fragile (easy to kink and make non-functional when pulling it), great customer service, expensive, great return policy if bought through Amazon

(3) MavisLink 50' Active hybrid fiber cable ($60), a complete RUIPRO knock-off (identical box, cable velcro ties, packaging, etc), no customer service, great return policy if bought through Amazon, least expensive


----------



## Otto Pylot

K-Sci said:


> I'd like to cable a 50' distance for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI, preferably HDR and preferably with ARC. I've tested the following cables on the floor out of the box between PC and AVR and PC and two PC monitors. None of them could maintain a continuous 4K lock one way.
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice Hoss High Speed HDMI Cable - 50 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 (most recent).
> DELONG 50ft Long Fiber Optic HDMI Cable Support 4K UHD 60Hz at 18.2Gbps Ultra high Speed,Support 4K UHD/HDR/HDTV/3D IMAX/Dolby Vision. Tried twice.
> KabelDirekt 4K HDMI Cable with Full Metal Connectors - 50 feet (cable direct knock-off)
> 
> What should I try next so I don't have to return a 5th cable? I'm thinking
> Monoprice SlimRun fiberoptic, but it's very pricey and doesn't support ARC.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



50' can be difficult for any cable, especially 4k HDR with ARC/eARC. Why do you want 4:4:4 unless you're a gamer? Most content is mastered at 4:2:0. Your best bet would be to try a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k, HDMI 2.0) and forget about copper only. One of the biggest drawbacks of active cables, be they copper or hybrid fiber is distance and power draw from the HDMI input. A power inserter may work depending on the display device.


----------



## jk246

K-Sci said:


> I'd like to cable a 50' distance for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI, preferably HDR and preferably with ARC. I've tested the following cables on the floor out of the box between PC and AVR and PC and two PC monitors. None of them could maintain a continuous 4K lock one way.
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice Hoss High Speed HDMI Cable - 50 Feet - Black, Active, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 (most recent).
> DELONG 50ft Long Fiber Optic HDMI Cable Support 4K UHD 60Hz at 18.2Gbps Ultra high Speed,Support 4K UHD/HDR/HDTV/3D IMAX/Dolby Vision. Tried twice.
> KabelDirekt 4K HDMI Cable with Full Metal Connectors - 50 feet (cable direct knock-off)
> 
> What should I try next so I don't have to return a 5th cable? I'm thinking
> Monoprice SlimRun fiberoptic, but it's very pricey and doesn't support ARC.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I tested a Monoprice Hoss 40 ft cable, and it failed to work for ARC (Denon AVR-X7200 WA with LG OLED65C7P TV).

I also tested 4- 15meter RUIPro optical cables... 2 shipped by Amazon and 2 replacements that RUIPro shipped when I notified them that intermittent ARC dropouts were occurring. The 2 that RUIPro sent were supposed to have better shielding on the conductors that carry the ARC signals, but they worked no better than the originals. I also tried the MonoPrice DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable (40 ft) and had similar ARC failures.

I'm currently using a Monoprice 20' Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable running across the living room floor in a cable protector until I find something that works, and over the past 2 years.

We're going to have to find a way to identify which RUIPro cables are being discussed, they have no part numbers on the cables or boxes, and they have a couple of different models now. The ones I tested are the original ones with silver metal connector shells and a black cable, but the 2 that were modified with additional shielding look identical to the 2 that were not, and it's possible that more than 2 variations of those cables look identical.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> This thread is an amazing resource. However, not all cables have test reports, and a lot of cables that have come out recently work, but do not have test results in the thread (the OP stopped testing cables quite awhile back). There are posts about people having issues with the Monoprice SlimRun failing after some time. I just copy-pasted most of this text from my post in the Denon X8500H owner's thread where a person was having problems, most likely from a failed Monoprice 18gbps active cable, and @*jdsmoothie* (a very well respected AVSForum contributor) chimed in and said he's heard of other failures with that cable too. So, I can't recommend it.
> 
> The net result is that there are at least three good choices for 50' active HDMI 2.0 cables that I've actually tested and lots of people recommend, in order my recommendations are:
> 
> (1) Blue Jeans Cable 50' Series-3A active copper ($80), sturdy but thick and doesn't bend well, great customer service and return policy
> 
> (2) RUIPRO 50' Active hybrid fiber cable ($160), fragile (easy to kink and make non-functional when pulling it), great customer service, expensive, great return policy if bought through Amazon
> 
> (3) MavisLink 50' Active hybrid fiber cable ($60), a complete RUIPRO knock-off (identical box, cable velcro ties, packaging, etc), no customer service, great return policy if bought through Amazon, least expensive



If you are careful with installing your cables, and at 50' you should be using a conduit if you don't have easy access, then even pulling a hybrid fiber cable is possible. My recommendation would be the Ruipro4k cables. I use them now for a short runs and they work as well as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables of the same length. I have the extra cable length looped behind my equipment for neatness so the bend radius is very generous, which results in zero strain on the HDMI input.


Any mfr can have a bad cable so no one is immune. Going forward, for long run 4k HDR and beyond, hybrid fiber is going to be what works most consistently. That being said, active cables are becoming more and more dependent on the consistency of the current output from the HDMI input which is causing issues, especially with some projectors.


----------



## K-Sci

Otto Pylot said:


> 50' can be difficult for any cable, especially 4k HDR with ARC/eARC. Why do you want 4:4:4 unless you're a gamer? Most content is mastered at 4:2:0. Your best bet would be to try a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k, HDMI 2.0) and forget about copper only. One of the biggest drawbacks of active cables, be they copper or hybrid fiber is distance and power draw from the HDMI input. A power inserter may work depending on the display device.


Otto Pylot and JK246, thanks for your replies. I'm gratified, sort of, to see that 50 feet isn't terribly easy. Am I right in understanding that a working ARC is the weak point in success? At this point, I can see giving up both ARC and 4:4:4 as neither are immediate needs, only wants. I



I see two very apprehensive recommendations for RUIPro, with a fragility caveat. 



Otto, you said _"One of the biggest drawbacks of active cables, be they copper or hybrid fiber is distance and power draw from the HDMI input. A power inserter may work depending on the display device._" I think you're saying that the cable capacitance is so high that the drivers don't achieve the full signal swing. Is the power inserter you mentioned something like the Kramer PT-101UHD 4K60 4:2:0 HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 Repeater (I'm too new to provide a link). 



jk', it sounds like I may be in the same boat you are. I've had HDMI running across the living room floor for two years.  Your experience with a Monoprice Hoss 40 ft cable confirms my findings at 50'. The PC accurately reported my Denon AVR-X6200 at the other end of the cable, but there wasn't enough signal to get even a momentary lock. The other two cables in my list achieved communication that would last a moment, then drop out again. I'm surprised that these companies can stay in business selling product that's unreliable. 



I'd like opinions from both of you, if I'm willing to give up ARC and 4:4:4, does that change your recommendations? Also, is there any reason that I'd want a hybrid vs. fully optical (if there is such a thing).


Thank you both for investing time in your replies. Both are very helpful!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Typical HDMI inputs are 5v/50mA. The active cables are designed to draw 50mA but there appears to be an issue with for HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 tested cables and current fluctuations at the HDMI input at long distances. It could be that the chipsets in the connector ends need to be more robust to handle variations in current. A power inserter is just that. A USB connected dongle that connects between the HDMI input and the HDMI cable. It produces a stable 5v/500mA which, in theory, give the active HDMI cable a constant, minimum 50mA. They do work but not all of the time.


A hybrid fiber cable is typically 4 glass (hopefully) optical wires surrounded by 8 copper wires. The optical fibers handle the high speed data transmission and the copper wires handle the lower speed data transmission like ARC, EDID, and HDCP. A fiber only HDMI cable can also work well but either one will work better that copper only wiring. The other advantage of fiber/hybrid fiber is that the cables are thinner, similar to active copper, but you have a much better bend radius and the connectors can be designed with a slimmer footprint (Ruipro) so the cable can fit snugly either horizontally or vertically.


Source and sink HDMI chipsets are also very critical. As to the fragility of hybrid fiber cables (any mfr), if you take care installing your cables then that shouldn't be a problem or any more of a concern that you would have for any cable that is going to be handling 18Gbps and up.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> Typical HDMI inputs are 5v/50mA. The active cables are designed to draw 50mA but there appears to be an issue with for HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 tested cables and current fluctuations at the HDMI input at long distances.


Otto, just a minor correction. I know I've mentioned this before to you in this thread, but the HDMI spec says the source (i.e. the HDMI output, not the input) provides the +5V power on pin 18. And a power inserter would go at the source end of the cable if you want to disconnect the cable from the (possibly unclean/unstable/underpowered) +5V power provided by the source. With an AVR in the loop, its HDMI output(s) are the sources and provide the +5V power.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Otto, just a minor correction. I know I've mentioned this before to you in this thread, but the HDMI spec says the source (i.e. the HDMI output, not the input) provides the +5V power on pin 18. And a power inserter would go at the source end of the cable if you want to disconnect the cable from the (possibly unclean/unstable/underpowered) +5V power provided by the source. With an AVR in the loop, its HDMI output(s) are the sources and provide the +5V power.


I've tested the power inserter at both ends with success but I suppose you could insert at the source end only (ATV4k for example) to see if that would work better in a given setup, but the sink end (avr, display) is where the active cable will draw power from so if the 50mA output at that end is not stable issues may occur. Pin 18 is correct for the power but HDMI adapters, extenders, etc are designed for that. What ever works works so trial and error is the way of HDMI . Maybe some brave soul should try an inserter at both ends at the same time. My runs are not long so I removed the inserters because I don't need them. Less is better when it comes to cable and things.

UPDATE: Thinking about this a little more I would have to amend my suggestion to connect the power inserter at the source end, not the sink end. Thanks for making me think about this a little more carefully.


----------



## jk246

K-Sci said:


> Otto Pylot and JK246, thanks for your replies. I'm gratified, sort of, to see that 50 feet isn't terribly easy. Am I right in understanding that a working ARC is the weak point in success? At this point, I can see giving up both ARC and 4:4:4 as neither are immediate needs, only wants. I
> 
> 
> 
> I see two very apprehensive recommendations for RUIPro, with a fragility caveat.
> 
> 
> 
> Otto, you said _"One of the biggest drawbacks of active cables, be they copper or hybrid fiber is distance and power draw from the HDMI input. A power inserter may work depending on the display device._" I think you're saying that the cable capacitance is so high that the drivers don't achieve the full signal swing. Is the power inserter you mentioned something like the Kramer PT-101UHD 4K60 4:2:0 HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 Repeater (I'm too new to provide a link).
> 
> 
> 
> jk', it sounds like I may be in the same boat you are. I've had HDMI running across the living room floor for two years.  Your experience with a Monoprice Hoss 40 ft cable confirms my findings at 50'. The PC accurately reported my Denon AVR-X6200 at the other end of the cable, but there wasn't enough signal to get even a momentary lock. The other two cables in my list achieved communication that would last a moment, then drop out again. I'm surprised that these companies can stay in business selling product that's unreliable.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like opinions from both of you, if I'm willing to give up ARC and 4:4:4, does that change your recommendations? Also, is there any reason that I'd want a hybrid vs. fully optical (if there is such a thing).
> 
> 
> Thank you both for investing time in your replies. Both are very helpful!


Cable capacitance is not an issue for fiber optics (the video part of a hybrid fiber cable- the other part of the fiber cable is the copper conductors used for ARC. The power inserter for a hybrid cable may be needed if the equipment driving the cable doesn't provide enough current for the fiber optic line driver circuitry inside the connector shell. The copper lines are not energized by anything because they are passive.

The active copper cables contain active equalizer circuitry that theoretically compensates for high frequency rolloff due to cable capacitance for the video lines, and may be slightly more power hungry. Again, the copper conductors for ARC are passive conductors because it's a 2-wire bi-directional signaling path that doesn't lend itself to having a line transmitter at one end and a line receiver at the other.

One thing we haven't talked about is HDMI over Ethernet; a couple of years ago the solutions for it weren't that phenomenal and were compressed. At that time one of the major manufacturers was just coming out with new chipsets that were more advanced, but they weren't in anyone's products yet and details were limited. It might be time for me to go back and look at that solution again, and see what the current state of the art is.

Frankly, I would be concerned about anything that might be shipped from around the industrial epicenter of Wahun in particular, and China in general right now, given the unknowns of the epidemiology of coronavirus; I believe many countries aren't even allowing shipment of goods to them from China, which given that even several of the top China doctors working on it who have taken what they thought were all necessary precautions have died from it. The more countries act with an abundance of caution, the better chance there is that the spread can be minimized until a vaccine is available.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> One thing we haven't talked about is HDMI over Ethernet; a couple of years ago the solutions for it weren't that phenomenal and were compressed. At that time one of the major manufacturers was just coming out with new chipsets that were more advanced, but they weren't in anyone's products yet and details were limited. It might be time for me to go back and look at that solution again, and see what the current state of the art is.


By HDMI over Ethernet are you referring to HDBT? If so, Valens announced a new chipset, the VS3000 over a year ago that was supposed to offer uncompressed HDMI 2.0 but for some reason that still hasn't come to market. That's unfortunate because it's a bit easier to run solid core CAT-6/7 cabling (non-CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with HDBT than it is to run a hybrid fiber or copper-only HDMI cable if a conduit is not used.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Otto, just a minor correction. I know I've mentioned this before to you in this thread, but the HDMI spec says the source (i.e. the HDMI output, not the input) provides the +5V power on pin 18. And a power inserter would go at the source end of the cable if you want to disconnect the cable from the (possibly unclean/unstable/underpowered) +5V power provided by the source. With an AVR in the loop, its HDMI output(s) are the sources and provide the +5V power.
> 
> 
> 
> The the sink end (avr, display) is where the active cable will draw power from.
Click to expand...

That's not possible. The sink end does not provide power. The HDMI spec calls for the source to provide +5V 55mA of power TO the sink. The sink can connect to this power to help the source know that it is available and not powered off or in standby mode.

That's why lots of sources and AVRs have issues with active cables. Since the active cable is always drawing power from the source on pin 18 (not just when the sink is powered on), sources can get confused and are not able to detect when a sink is in standby.

Automatic splitters (like those in AVRs with two mirrored HDMI outouts) get confused because they think the sink connected via the active cable is always on, even when it is in standby mode. So, it will try to sync/handshake with it, and that will timeout and the entire HDMI chain will collapse and you'll get no audio or video to either of the connected displays. The only solution is to not use the "Auto" or "1+2" mode of the HDMI output when using only one sink, you have to manually force the AVR from Auto/1+2 mode to HDMI Out 1 or HDMI Out 2 when using an active cable.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> By HDMI over Ethernet are you referring to HDBT? If so, Valens announced a new chipset, the VS3000 over a year ago that was supposed to offer uncompressed HDMI 2.0 but for some reason that still hasn't come to market. That's unfortunate because it's a bit easier to run solid core CAT-6/7 cabling (non-CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with HDBT than it is to run a hybrid fiber or copper-only HDMI cable if a conduit is not used.


But of course - and Valens formally announced the VS3000 on June 6, 2019. Cat 7 would be overkill for this particular application because HTBaseT spec 3.0 (HDBT) is gigabit, however if I didn't already have Cat 6 in the walls, personally I would run Cat 7, not because it's required, but in case it's needed for future use (like when Valens comes out with the latest VS10,000 chipset for 8K video (don't bother looking that up, my tongue is firmly in cheek). 
Yes, Cat 6 (and 7) are far more robust than fiber in max cable-pull tension, by design, they have to be because the lengths they're used over is commonly far greater than required for AV pulls, through conduits often stuffed with other category cable.

The VS3XXX (Stello chipset) advertised spec is HDMI 2.0 18Gbps uncompressed [email protected] 4:4:4, with USB 2.0, controls and power, and near-zero latency up to 100m/328ft; that should be far enough for most people on this forum (and also up to 100 watts of power).

Hopefully they're working on a new product that supports HDMI 2.1, eARC, & 8K.

Demo youtube here:


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> That's not possible. The sink end does not provide power. The HDMI spec calls for the source to provide +5V 55mA of power TO the sink. The sink can connect to this power to help the source know that it is available and not powered off or in standby mode.
> 
> That's why lots of sources and AVRs have issues with active cables. Since the active cable is always drawing power from the source on pin 18 (not just when the sink is powered on), sources can get confused and are not able to detect when a sink is in standby.
> 
> Automatic splitters (like those in AVRs with two mirrored HDMI outouts) get confused because they think the sink connected via the active cable is always on, even when it is in standby mode. So, it will try to sync/handshake with it, and that will timeout and the entire HDMI chain will collapse and you'll get no audio or video to either of the connected displays. The only solution is to not use the "Auto" or "1+2" mode of the HDMI output when using only one sink, you have to manually force the AVR from Auto/1+2 mode to HDMI Out 1 or HDMI Out 2 when using an active cable.



AVS is a constant learning curve and even some of us old codgers need a bit of correction to get back on track from time to time. Your HDMI 1+2 is a nice addition and explains simply what I think a lot of users have experienced when attempting to use dual HDMI outputs with resulting issues. Definitely going into my notes. Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> But of course - and Valens formally announced the VS3000 on June 6, 2019. Cat 7 would be overkill for this particular application because HTBaseT spec 3.0 (HDBT) is gigabit, however if I didn't already have Cat 6 in the walls, personally I would run Cat 7, not because it's required, but in case it's needed for future use (like when Valens comes out with the latest VS10,000 chipset for 8K video (don't bother looking that up, my tongue is firmly in cheek).
> Yes, Cat 6 (and 7) are far more robust than fiber in max cable-pull tension, by design, they have to be because the lengths they're used over is commonly far greater than required for AV pulls, through conduits often stuffed with other category cable.
> 
> The VS3XXX (Stello chipset) advertised spec is HDMI 2.0 18Gbps uncompressed [email protected] 4:4:4, with USB 2.0, controls and power, and near-zero latency up to 100m/328ft; that should be far enough for most people on this forum (and also up to 100 watts of power).
> 
> Hopefully they're working on a new product that supports HDMI 2.1, eARC, & 8K.



I only mentioned CAT-7 for those who think they absolutely need it, and if installing new solid core cables it might be useful addition down the road. VA10000 for 8k , that's funny .


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> I only mentioned CAT-7 for those who think they absolutely need it, and if installing new solid core cables it might be useful addition down the road.


Isn't that essentially what I said??



Otto Pylot said:


> VA10000 for 8k , that's funny .


Yes, the digits following the 'VA' denote the retail price for the final product. $3,000 for HDBaseT 4k, and $10,000 for HDBaseT 8K.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> Isn't that essentially what I said??
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the digits following the 'VA' denote the retail price for the final product. $3,000 for HDBaseT 4k, and $10,000 for HDBaseT 8K.



Yes, that is what you said. Sorry for being redundant. $8,000 and $10,000? Seriously ? Think I'll stick with my hybrid fiber cables and short runs.


----------



## jk246

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes, that is what you said. Sorry for being redundant. $8,000 and $10,000? Seriously ? Think I'll stick with my hybrid fiber cables and short runs.


No, it's $3,000 and $10,000 - $8,000, that's ridiculous!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk246 said:


> No, it's $3,000 and $10,000 - $8,000, that's ridiculous!


----------



## K-Sci

How do you know a cable is hybrid vs. all fiber? I've never seen a cable labeled as hybrid. Is it the presence of an ARC on a fiber cable? From what I'm hearing, ARC over copper is not a lot better than an all copper cable at 50 feet, though I believe the ARC channel carries lower frequencies. 



I've been unable to find the RUIPRO manufacturer's web site or any specifications beyond what is on Amazon. Is it a brand, a corporation, or something else? 



I've considering two cables: 
*RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 15m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box ( $177.11 Amazon.com).*

Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, **75ft**, Black ($264.9, 50 foot is sold out -monoprice.com/product?p_id=38625). 



Without specifications on either, I can only assume that neither of these has ARC or e-ARC.


Thoughts?


What limits the transmission distance on CATx Ethernet cables is the bound charge and dipole relaxation losses in the dielectric, rather than the i^2R, radiation, or inductive losses. I suspect the same is true for HDMI, though I've not read the specifications or literature for HDMI. 



-K


----------



## jch2

K-Sci said:


> How do you know a cable is hybrid vs. all fiber?


Hybrid cables have four fiber and seven copper wires (eight if you count the shield). If the manufacturer shows a cutaway of the cable you can tell.

Pins 1-12 carry the high bandwidth data and are converted to fiber in a hybrid cable and are directional. Active cables are directional because high speed data only goes one way, from source to sink. So, the transmitter chip is at the source end, and receiver chip is at the sink end for pins 1-12. Those pins are assisted by the chipset. In a fiber cable, these 12 lines become four 6gbps fiber lanes (3 for 18gbps data rate, and one for clock).

Pins 13-19 are low bandwidth and/or bidirectional and don't need to be converted to fiber to work at distance. These pins are used for CEC, ARC, EDID, Ethernet, and +5V 55mA power provided by the source (pin 18). Some fiber cables may not fully connect pins 13-19. Thus they may not support CEC, ARC, or Ethernet. In an active copper or hybrid fiber cable pins 13-19 are generally pass-through and copper, except the chips at both ends draw power from the source on pin 18.

Any HDMI cable or extender must able to support EDID in order for HDMI to work, but chipsets can send fake/generic EDIDs instead of reporting the actual capabilities of the sink.

A copper or hybrid cable should also support CEC, ARC and Ethernet, even if not labeled as such (if the pins are connected at both ends with copper wires, those low bandwidth features should work).

Hope that helps.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. The only way to learn things is to ask questions. I'm constantly learning new things around here so keep asking away and don't apologize. *AVR's in the middle of an active HDMI connection can be considered both source and sink*. Sink when you connect an external device like a BD player or a streaming box (ATV4k for example) to it, the external device being the source. Source when you connect your AVR to your tv (sink). ARC allows for that bi-directional connection when you use the HDMI ports marked specifically for ARC and you configure your devices for an ARC connection. If you do install the cables backwards you won't damage anything you just won't get a connection if you have ARC enabled. If you don't enable ARC, then the HDMI inputs function like any other HDMI input/output.


I understand the word "source" as referring to a Blu-ray player or ATV4k or generally "output", but I don't understand the word "sink" which I'm assuming refers to the display or "input". Is "sink" well known AV nomenclature that I just didn't know?


----------



## mrtickleuk

console said:


> I understand the word "source" as referring to a Blu-ray player or ATV4k or generally "output", but I don't understand the word "sink" which I'm assuming refers to the display or "input". Is "sink" well known AV nomenclature that I just didn't know?


Yes a "sink" is a special term for HDMI devices. It's the end point. 

Normally if you connect your blu-ray player directly to the TV, the player is the source and the TV is the "sink".

But to get high quality audio, most of us connect it via an AVR. The AVR acts as a "sink" for the blu-ray player. The blu-ray player and all the HDCP DRM stuff only agrees to send the data to the AVR on this basis. As far as the blu-ray player is concerned, it's connected to the device which is doing to accept and deal with the data. This is also why you'll see people say that an AVR "acts as a sink device".

Next, there's a second *completely separate* HDMI connection going from the AVR to the TV, carrying no audio at all, and the video is re-constructed from the packets of data which have already been de-coded from the incoming signal. NB: there's no pass through with HDMI, only "decode-repackage-retransmit").

In the second connection, the AVR becomes the "source", then the TV is the "sink". The video signal arrives at the TV as the blu-ray player intended, encrypted with HDCP DRM on both legs of its journey.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> I understand the word "source" as referring to a Blu-ray player or ATV4k or generally "output", but I don't understand the word "sink" which I'm assuming refers to the display or "input". Is "sink" well known AV nomenclature that I just didn't know?


Sink is sometimes referred to as the Display. Some active cables actually have that end of the cable labeled as such. Look at the Sink as being the direction where the cable signal ends when coming from the Source.


----------



## console

mrtickleuk said:


> Yes a "sink" is a special term for HDMI devices. It's the end point.
> 
> Normally if you connect your blu-ray player directly to the TV, the player is the source and the TV is the "sink".
> 
> But to get high quality audio, most of us connect it via an AVR. The AVR acts as a "sink" for the blu-ray player. The blu-ray player and all the HDCP DRM stuff only agrees to send the data to the AVR on this basis. As far as the blu-ray player is concerned, it's connected to the device which is doing to accept and deal with the data. This is also why you'll see people say that an AVR "acts as a sink device".
> 
> Next, there's a second *completely separate* HDMI connection going from the AVR to the TV, carrying no audio at all, and the video is re-constructed from the packets of data which have already been de-coded from the incoming signal. NB: there's no pass through with HDMI, only "decode-repackage-retransmit").
> 
> In the second connection, the AVR becomes the "source", then the TV is the "sink". The video signal arrives at the TV as the blu-ray player intended, encrypted with HDCP DRM on both legs of its journey


Beautiful explanation! So, in my kitchen, the "sink" is the device into which all my dirty dishes (sources/sauces) end up. Got it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

K-Sci said:


> How do you know a cable is hybrid vs. all fiber? I've never seen a cable labeled as hybrid. Is it the presence of an ARC on a fiber cable? From what I'm hearing, ARC over copper is not a lot better than an all copper cable at 50 feet, though I believe the ARC channel carries lower frequencies.




What @jch2 posted is pretty much what I've posted before. It can be difficult to determine if a cable advertised as fiber is fiber only or hybrid fiber. Unfortunately you have to depend on the mfr's description to know what the cable is going to support. If it does state eARC or ARC for example the cable is more than likely hybrid fiber for the reasons that jch mentioned. If the cable mfr posts a cutaway of the cable then you can tell by looking at the diagram. Also, at least in the case of "HDMI 2.1" compliant cables, there is no way that a fiber only cable is going to be able to handle 48Gpbs reliably and all of the other options sets for HDMI 2.1. One of the ideas of hybrid fiber is to have the solid copper wiring handle all of the low bandwidth duties which allows more bandwidth to be carried on the glass fiber channels.

If you want more specifics on the Ruipro cables you can message me.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Beautiful explanation! So, in my kitchen, the "sink" is the device into which all my dirty dishes (sources/sauces) end up. Got it.



To summarize: blu-ray player (Source) -> receiver (Sink), receiver (Source) -> TV (Sink).


----------



## AndreNewman

A bit of a long shot I think but...

Has anyone tested a 4m or 5m HDMI cable with a 90 degree (or 270) connector on one end? My projector has to be really close to the wall and the HDMI cable bend is the limiting factor. I used an adaptor with the old 1080p projector but of course that doesn't work for 2160p60.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AndreNewman said:


> A bit of a long shot I think but...
> 
> Has anyone tested a 4m or 5m HDMI cable with a 90 degree (or 270) connector on one end? My projector has to be really close to the wall and the HDMI cable bend is the limiting factor. I used an adaptor with the old 1080p projector but of course that doesn't work for 2160p60.



A sharp 90 degree bend in the cable is something that we suggest you avoid, especially for 4k HDR. Adapters, extenders, wall plates, etc are also discouraged because 4k HDR can be really finicky with its cable connection. A single cable, source to sink, is ideal. Is your cable run in-wall?


----------



## AndreNewman

Otto Pylot said:


> A sharp 90 degree bend in the cable is something that we suggest you avoid, especially for 4k HDR. Adapters, extenders, wall plates, etc are also discouraged because 4k HDR can be really finicky with its cable connection. A single cable, source to sink, is ideal. Is your cable run in-wall?




I know, that’s why I thought it would be a long shot.

No in wall cables, all in a big conduit hidden behind the curtains. I’m currently using a 3m thin Amazon basics cable that bends enough to get the projector just close enough to the wall. The plan is to move the electronics to my office directly above the projector, cable run won’t be much different to now but might need 4m. I was hoping to find something that would be better than a bent cable! Why on earth do JVC (and most others) put the connectors on the back of the projector? Every projector I ever had was always wanting maximum throw.

The original plan/hope had been to put the projector in the hallway, hole in the wall but combination of going though a wall and max lens shift makes that impossible.

I do have a Vertex in the chain, I could use a short, bendy or right angle cable in the back of the projector and a longer 3 or 4m ordinary cable to upstairs.

I understand that HDMI doesn’t work well with very short cables either, 1m is the minimum I think?


----------



## Otto Pylot

AndreNewman said:


> I know, that’s why I thought it would be a long shot.
> 
> No in wall cables, all in a big conduit hidden behind the curtains. I’m currently using a 3m thin Amazon basics cable that bends enough to get the projector just close enough to the wall. The plan is to move the electronics to my office directly above the projector, cable run won’t be much different to now but might need 4m. I was hoping to find something that would be better than a bent cable! Why on earth do JVC (and most others) put the connectors on the back of the projector? Every projector I ever had was always wanting maximum throw.
> 
> The original plan/hope had been to put the projector in the hallway, hole in the wall but combination of going though a wall and max lens shift makes that impossible.
> 
> I do have a Vertex in the chain, I could use a short, bendy or right angle cable in the back of the projector and a longer 3 or 4m ordinary cable to upstairs.
> 
> I understand that HDMI doesn’t work well with very short cables either, 1m is the minimum I think?


HDMI works just fine at 1m (3') upwards. I've run Premium High Speed HDMI cables at that length and they worked just fine for 4k HDR. I am currently running active hybrid cables at that distance as a test and they too work without issues for 4k HDR. How much space do you actually have behind the projector? Active hybrid fiber cables have an excellent bend radius so you can use them in a tight situation depending on how much free space we're actually talking about. Unfortunately they are expensive and there have been some issues with pj's in general and active cables.

Is there anyway to cut a small recess in the wall behind the projector to give you maybe 4" straight to the pj? 

"Ordinary" cables? I would just stick with Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) for runs that are under about 20'. The cables will be thicker probably so you will have to deal with bend radius and potential strain on the HDMI inputs. Active cables are nice because they are typically thinner but HDMI.org doesn't allow for certification of active cables, yet.


----------



## AndreNewman

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI works just fine at 1m (3') upwards. I've run Premium High Speed HDMI cables at that length and they worked just fine for 4k HDR. I am currently running active hybrid cables at that distance as a test and they too work without issues for 4k HDR. How much space do you actually have behind the projector? Active hybrid fiber cables have an excellent bend radius so you can use them in a tight situation depending on how much free space we're actually talking about. Unfortunately they are expensive and there have been some issues with pj's in general and active cables.
> 
> Is there anyway to cut a small recess in the wall behind the projector to give you maybe 4" straight to the pj?
> 
> "Ordinary" cables? I would just stick with Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) for runs that are under about 20'. The cables will be thicker probably so you will have to deal with bend radius and potential strain on the HDMI inputs. Active cables are nice because they are typically thinner but HDMI.org doesn't allow for certification of active cables, yet.


There's really no space behind the projector, hence the interest in a right angled cable rather than a strained straight cable. I guess I could dig out a wall box depth of plaster and recess a cable in to that, I was trying to avoid anything like that. I'm an electronics Engineer so I know that right angled is bad but so is a sharp bend and a strained poorly designed multi way cable.

The overall run will be quite short, it's all planned that way, currently all the electronics are below the projector with a short cable, 3m. After the move everything will be directly above the projector, in the room above and the cable run will be similarly short. I could in fact drill the cable route directly above the projector instead of the corner 2m away as planned, probably won't reduce the run much though.

Currently I have a .5m cable to the vertex and then 3m to the projector so I could reverse than and keep the vertex near to the projector or split the run in half with the vertex reclocking in the middle. I guess I'll have to experiment a little, I was hoping someone has been there already.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## jch2

AndreNewman said:


> Otto Pylot said:
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI works just fine at 1m (3') upwards. I've run Premium High Speed HDMI cables at that length and they worked just fine for 4k HDR. I am currently running active hybrid cables at that distance as a test and they too work without issues for 4k HDR. How much space do you actually have behind the projector? Active hybrid fiber cables have an excellent bend radius so you can use them in a tight situation depending on how much free space we're actually talking about. Unfortunately they are expensive and there have been some issues with pj's in general and active cables.
> 
> Is there anyway to cut a small recess in the wall behind the projector to give you maybe 4" straight to the pj?
> 
> "Ordinary" cables? I would just stick with Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) for runs that are under about 20'. The cables will be thicker probably so you will have to deal with bend radius and potential strain on the HDMI inputs. Active cables are nice because they are typically thinner but HDMI.org doesn't allow for certification of active cables, yet.
> 
> 
> 
> There's really no space behind the projector, hence the interest in a right angled cable rather than a strained straight cable. I guess I could dig out a wall box depth of plaster and recess a cable in to that, I was trying to avoid anything like that. I'm an electronics Engineer so I know that right angled is bad but so is a sharp bend and a strained poorly designed multi way cable.
> 
> The overall run will be quite short, it's all planned that way, currently all the electronics are below the projector with a short cable, 3m. After the move everything will be directly above the projector, in the room above and the cable run will be similarly short. I could in fact drill the cable route directly above the projector instead of the corner 2m away as planned, probably won't reduce the run much though.
> 
> Currently I have a .5m cable to the vertex and then 3m to the projector so I could reverse than and keep the vertex near to the projector or split the run in half with the vertex reclocking in the middle. I guess I'll have to experiment a little, I was hoping someone has been there already.
> 
> Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

For a run that short (


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^ 1080 should be no problem but will that work reliably for 4k HDR? It's been my experience that elbow adapters have problems with 4k HDR. But given we are talking about HDMI, anything is possible.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^^ 1080 should be no problem but will that work reliably for 4k HDR? It's been my experience that elbow adapters have problems with 4k HDR. But given we are talking about HDMI, anything is possible.


Yes, passive cables and adaptors (including right-angle adaptors) work just fine for 4k HDR 18gbps content at less than 5m distances. You'll have to use a cable rated for HDMI 2.0 / 18gbps. But the adaptors are short (just electrical connections) and need no ratings. Only cables that run over a distance really need to be rated. 

Even up to 8m (25') passive can work, but often you'll want to buy higher-end / higher AWG cables like Blue Jeans Cable (BJC). Of course, with all things AV, you may occasionally find one with issues, and if so just swap it out and return it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Yes, passive cables and adaptors (including right-angle adaptors) work just fine for 4k HDR 18gbps content at less than 5m distances. You'll have to use a cable rated for HDMI 2.0 / 18gbps. But the adaptors are short (just electrical connections) and need no ratings. Only cables that run over a distance really need to be rated.
> 
> Even up to 8m (25') passive can work, but often you'll want to buy higher-end / higher AWG cables like Blue Jeans Cable (BJC). Of course, with all things AV, you may occasionally find one with issues, and if so just swap it out and return it.


Yeah, passive cables can and do work up to the maximum certified length of 25' (Premium High Speed). I've used them just fine (BJC) for trouble-free 4k HDR. It's just that I've had and seen issues with elbow adapters and the same cable type. It can be trial and error because not every adapter will work for whatever reason. It's just something that the OP needs to consider and be aware of, just in case, given he has a tight working space.


----------



## Merrick22

Is this HDMI list still current in 2020? Is there a link to the updated list?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Merrick22 said:


> Is this HDMI list still current in 2020? Is there a link to the updated list?



Not that I've seen. If you tell us what your setup is or what you want, we may be able to give you some suggestions. Keep in mind that no cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time for any given setup due to hardware, installation, and other factors.


----------



## remsta

*Which Cable?*

Hi,

Long time reader, first time poster. 

We are currently building a new house and in our Home Theatre room we will have an LG OLED 77" C9 or similar and a Denon AVR-X2600H amplifier. The cable distance from the TV to the amplifier (which is housed in a closet at the back of the room) is approximately 15m (49ft) [this is what has been suggested by the electrician). They have quoted at 15m Bluestream Precision 4k HDMI cable, I was wondering if anyone has any info on this? All I seem to see is the RuiPro Hybrid 4K cables (which I don't really understand why they are better). 

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Otto Pylot

remsta said:


> Hi,
> 
> Long time reader, first time poster.
> 
> We are currently building a new house and in our Home Theatre room we will have an LG OLED 77" C9 or similar and a Denon AVR-X2600H amplifier. The cable distance from the TV to the amplifier (which is housed in a closet at the back of the room) is approximately 15m (49ft) [this is what has been suggested by the electrician). They have quoted at 15m Bluestream Precision 4k HDMI cable, I was wondering if anyone has any info on this? All I seem to see is the RuiPro Hybrid 4K cables (which I don't really understand why they are better).
> 
> Thanks a lot!



The 15m Bluestream cables appear to be active copper cables, which is something that I wouldn't recommend at that distance. The Ruipro cables are active hybrid fiber cables. The Ruipro hybrid fiber cables have 4 optical cables for high speed bandwidth surrounded by 8 solid copper wires for lower speed bandwidth (ARC, EDID, HDCP). My guess is that the electrician gets a deal to sell and/or recommend the Bluestream cables. Hybrid fiber cables are more expensive than plain old active copper cables but are more reliable. Just make sure that you install your cables in a conduit and that bend radius is not extreme. 



The best connection will be source to sink with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. 4k HDR is really finicky with its cable connections so at 50' you really need to be aware of that. Conduit in the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. And, as a side note, regardless of the cable mfrs claims, no cable is 100% guaranteed to work with all setups so test it thoroughly before installation (lay it out on the floor).


----------



## _Vindicare_

Got this one last week, mine is 12 meter lenth tested with 4K HDR with no problems, have yet to try 60fps 4K HDR but with normal worked flawless.


----------



## Otto Pylot

_Vindicare_ said:


> Got this one last week, mine is 12 meter lenth tested with 4K HDR with no problems, have yet to try 60fps 4K HDR but with normal worked flawless.



Yep. I tested 4 or 5 of those earlier in the year. There were some issues but they were from an earlier build run and Ruipro has since improved them. I haven't posted my reviews yet until I'm sent the current build. Did you use the included voltage inserter?


----------



## _Vindicare_

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. I tested 4 or 5 of those earlier in the year. There were some issues but they were from an earlier build run and Ruipro has since improved them. I haven't posted my reviews yet until I'm sent the current build. Did you use the included voltage inserter?


Source was the Marantz 8805 to a JVC N7, did not use the voltage inserters.


----------



## Otto Pylot

_Vindicare_ said:


> Source was the Marantz 8805 to a JVC N7, did not use the voltage inserters.


Might be an interesting experiment to try the Ruipro with the voltage inserter and see if it works. I didn't find any benefit with them or without them but then I don't have a pj, and that seems to be where some issues are arising with active cables due to inconsistent current from the HDMI inputs.


----------



## 4fit?

So, is the general consensus that Ruipro is the better buy over the Monoprice slimline? Specifically looking at the 40ft/12m option. I just had a 1 month old Monoprice Cabernet active cable fail on me today; the same day that I finally got my seating in and installed my surrounds! Ugh!!!!!

Currently, the Monoprice is about 1/2 the price of the Ruipro, but I'm totally fine spending the extra if it's worth it. Will be installed in ceiling (Denon X3500 to BenQ HT2050). 

Specifically the two cables I'm looking at...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0759CXK4H/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_8tuKEbRDGVQX7

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=31013&seq=1&format=2

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## helvetica bold

How are the RUIPRO copper HDMI cables? 
I’m looking at the 6ft where they claim it’s HDMI 2.1. I’m not familiar with the brand but it looks decent. I assume it’s similar to Monoprice?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> So, is the general consensus that Ruipro is the better buy over the Monoprice slimline? Specifically looking at the 40ft/12m option. I just had a 1 month old Monoprice Cabernet active cable fail on me today; the same day that I finally got my seating in and installed my surrounds! Ugh!!!!!
> 
> Currently, the Monoprice is about 1/2 the price of the Ruipro, but I'm totally fine spending the extra if it's worth it. Will be installed in ceiling (Denon X3500 to BenQ HT2050).
> 
> Specifically the two cables I'm looking at...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0759CXK4H/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_8tuKEbRDGVQX7
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=30101&cs_id=3010101&p_id=31013&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk



At 40', I'd go with the Ruipro. I've been using the Ruipro4k's for almost a year (but not at 40', my runs are much less) and they've been as reliable as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables I was using before. Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC for HDMI 2.0 but being as they are active cables, they are not allowed to be marketed as "certified" or carry the QR label.



If you install in the ceiling the use of a conduit is highly recommended. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time for all setups so you need to way to easily and safely swap the cables out if need be. Besides, video standards will always outpace connection standards so the likelyhood of upgrading your cabling as you upgrade your hardware is almost a gimmee. That being said, there are reported issues with some projectors due to inconsistent current output that may affect some active cables so a voltage inserter may be needed. Whichever cable you get, lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before installation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> How are the RUIPRO copper HDMI cables?
> I’m looking at the 6ft where they claim it’s HDMI 2.1. I’m not familiar with the brand but it looks decent. I assume it’s similar to Monoprice?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



At 6', you shouldn't have any issues at all as these are active copper-only cables. Ruipro does test their cables at an ATC but these are active cables so they can not be marketed as certified or have the QR label for authenticity. I've never used the copper-only Ruipro cables at that length. I have been testing the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at 6' for quite a few months now and they have worked just for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. As far as HDMI 2.1 goes, I'm not a gamer so I have no need for VRR/ALLM. And until I upgrade my system some day with the final HDMI 2.1 chipsets, the other option sets are useless to me.


----------



## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> At 40', I'd go with the Ruipro. I've been using the Ruipro4k's for almost a year (but not at 40', my runs are much less) and they've been as reliable as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables I was using before. Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC for HDMI 2.0 but being as they are active cables, they are not allowed to be marketed as "certified" or carry the QR label.
> 
> 
> 
> If you install in the ceiling the use of a conduit is highly recommended. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time for all setups so you need to way to easily and safely swap the cables out if need be. Besides, video standards will always outpace connection standards so the likelyhood of upgrading your cabling as you upgrade your hardware is almost a gimmee. That being said, there are reported issues with some projectors due to inconsistent current output that may affect some active cables so a voltage inserter may be needed. Whichever cable you get, lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before installation.


Thanks for the reply. Already have conduit installed, so no problem there. I removed the active cable this morning in about 2 minutes and got it boxed up for return/refund. And I'll definitely test the new cable thoroughly before running it through the conduit/ceiling. Ordering the Ruipro in just a few minutes. There are several listed, so just want to make sure I have the right/best one. My current projector is 1080p, but I have plans to upgrade that to 4k later this year. 

This the one to go with?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0759CXK4H/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_4gFKEb1KEK2Z0

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> Thanks for the reply. Already have conduit installed, so no problem there. I removed the active cable this morning in about 2 minutes and got it boxed up for return/refund. And I'll definitely test the new cable thoroughly before running it through the conduit/ceiling. Ordering the Ruipro in just a few minutes. There are several listed, so just want to make sure I have the right/best one. My current projector is 1080p, but I have plans to upgrade that to 4k later this year.
> 
> This the one to go with?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0759CXK4H/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_4gFKEb1KEK2Z0
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk



Yes. That's the HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. They are very flexible but you still have to be mindful of bend radius. However, with a conduit you should be able to control that with ease. I should mention though that ARC, if you want/need that may be an issue as it is for any cable at that distance. And, as I've mentioned before, some pj's have issues with consistent current output with some active cables being more sensitive to that than others so you may have to use a voltage inserter if that's the case. They do work in some cases so just file that away. Oh, and don't use wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc for your connection. A direct, source to sink, connection is the most reliable. That becomes even more important once you get to 4k HDR.


----------



## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes. That's the HDMI 2.0 hybrid fiber cable. They are very flexible but you still have to be mindful of bend radius. However, with a conduit you should be able to control that with ease. I should mention though that ARC, if you want/need that may be an issue as it is for any cable at that distance. And, as I've mentioned before, some pj's have issues with consistent current output with some active cables being more sensitive to that than others so you may have to use a voltage inserter if that's the case. They do work in some cases so just file that away. Oh, and don't use wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc for your connection. A direct, source to sink, connection is the most reliable. That becomes even more important once you get to 4k HDR.


Thanks again. 

I don't use any wall plates for my HDMI connections, so good to go there. And I have no need for ARC, so no issues there either. Placing my order now. 

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> I don't use any wall plates for my HDMI connections, so good to go there. And I have no need for ARC, so no issues there either. Placing my order now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk



Good luck. 40' is tough for a lot of cables so let us know how it works out.


----------



## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck. 40' is tough for a lot of cables so let us know how it works out.


The Monoprice Cabernet worked totally fine for about a month. I even watched something as recent as yesterday morning. Then in the afternoon, my seating is delivered, I install my surrounds, sit down to dial things in an no video! Ugh!!!!!!

Unfortunately, it appears that when the HDMI cable went, the main HDMI output port on the receiver (Denon X3500) went too. The 40' active cable doesnt work on any ports or devices, so I know it is toast. The HDMI1 output on the receiver doesn't send a signal to any device even with short 3' standard HDMI cables. The HDMI2 output does work. I even did a factory reset on the receiver and get the same result. Very odd how it all happened at once.

I don't know which one caused the other to happen, but regardless, I am now sending back not only the HDMI cable (and hopefully upgrading with the Ruipro fiber cable), but also the receiver. Was really looking forward to getting everything dialed in and enjoying the first proper showing in the theater, but that is on hold for a while it seems. 

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> The Monoprice Cabernet worked totally fine for about a month. I even watched something as recent as yesterday morning. Then in the afternoon, my seating is delivered, I install my surrounds, sit down to dial things in an no video! Ugh!!!!!!
> 
> Unfortunately, it appears that when the HDMI cable went, the main HDMI output port on the receiver (Denon X3500) went too. The 40' active cable doesnt work on any ports or devices, so I know it is toast. The HDMI1 output on the receiver doesn't send a signal to any device even with short 3' standard HDMI cables. The HDMI2 output does work. I even did a factory reset on the receiver and get the same result. Very odd how it all happened at once.
> 
> I don't know which one caused the other to happen, but regardless, I am now sending back not only the HDMI cable (and hopefully upgrading with the Ruipro fiber cable), but also the receiver. Was really looking forward to getting everything dialed in and enjoying the first proper showing in the theater, but that is on hold for a while it seems.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


Active HDMI cables should not damage the connected HDMI ports because they only draw about 50mA of power. It sounds like there was a failure with one of the HDMI ports (short, power spike, etc) that the cables were connected to.


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## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> Active HDMI cables should not damage the connected HDMI ports because they only draw about 50mA of power. It sounds like there was a failure with one of the HDMI ports (short, power spike, etc) that the cables were connected to.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. Really sucks that's for sure. I have a feeling I could reorder the same Cabernet cable and it would work fine since it worked before, but I figured if I have to replace it, I might as well swap it for a fiber cable just to be safe. 

As for the receiver, I'm going to replace it with the same model. I've only had it for a couple weeks.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. Really sucks that's for sure. I have a feeling I could reorder the same Cabernet cable and it would work fine since it worked before, but I figured if I have to replace it, I might as well swap it for a fiber cable just to be safe.
> 
> As for the receiver, I'm going to replace it with the same model. I've only had it for a couple weeks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


I'd hate to think that your new Denon has a blown HDMI port. Did you have a power outage? I have two HTS's and both of them are on APC UPS units. We don't get power outages that often but it's not a bad idea. The UPS's I use are probably not the best given the investment I have in my systems but they are better than nothing. I've never had a blown HDMI port on any of my receivers (Yamaha). That sucks.


----------



## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> I'd hate to think that your new Denon has a blown HDMI port. Did you have a power outage? I have two HTS's and both of them are on APC UPS units. We don't get power outages that often but it's not a bad idea. The UPS's I use are probably not the best given the investment I have in my systems but they are better than nothing. I've never had a blown HDMI port on any of my receivers (Yamaha). That sucks.


Did not have a power outage, but the furniture delivery guys toggled my light switch in some manner that tripped the breaker for the lights/standard outlets in that room. However, the Denon (along with a few other items) were plugged into a surge protector that is on a dedicated 20amp circuit completely separate from the breaker that tripped, so I don't *think* that had anything to do with it, though it is an odd coincidence. 

I've got a UPS downstairs that I may bring to the theater. 

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> Did not have a power outage, but the furniture delivery guys toggled my light switch in some manner that tripped the breaker for the lights/standard outlets in that room. However, the Denon (along with a few other items) were plugged into a surge protector that is on a dedicated 20amp circuit completely separate from the breaker that tripped, so I don't *think* that had anything to do with it, though it is an odd coincidence.
> 
> I've got a UPS downstairs that I may bring to the theater.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk



That is weird. In our previous home, the HTS was on the other side of the wall where the refrigerator was and both were on the same circuit. Never had any power issues with the receiver et al when the compressor turned on (lucky I guess). Toggling the light switch shouldn't have tripped a breaker so it sounds like a wiring issue, if that's what it was.


----------



## 4fit?

Otto Pylot said:


> That is weird. In our previous home, the HTS was on the other side of the wall where the refrigerator was and both were on the same circuit. Never had any power issues with the receiver et al when the compressor turned on (lucky I guess). Toggling the light switch shouldn't have tripped a breaker so it sounds like a wiring issue, if that's what it was.


I've got a temporary light up and I imagine a ground is touching somewhere when the switch for what would be a ceiling fan is thrown by mistake. I need to get my light ordered and tackle that issue. 

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

4fit? said:


> I've got a temporary light up and I imagine a ground is touching somewhere when the switch for what would be a ceiling fan is thrown by mistake. I need to get my light ordered and tackle that issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk



Sounds reasonable.


----------



## rushabh

Hello everyone,

Can someone provide any feedback on the Monoprice Luxe Active HDMI cable - Monoprice item 13757 

I ordered the 30-feet cable. Does it support HDMI 2.0a? Is it a reliable cable?

My set-up is as follows (from TV to source): Sony XBR85X950G 85" Bravia TV --> (30 feet) Denon AVRS700W --> (2 feet) Apple TV 4K

Questions:
1) Does the Luxe Active HDMI cable support HDMI 2.0a?
2) Is this cable reliable at 30 feet?
3) The run from the Bravia to the Denon receiver is going through a conduit in the wall. Any issues with the bending of the cable?

Non-cable related question: Denon says that the AVRS700W supports 4K and is HDMI 2.0 compliant. Will it pass through Dolby Vision and HDR10 through to the TV? 

Thanks very much for your assistance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rushabh said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Can someone provide any feedback on the Monoprice Luxe Active HDMI cable - Monoprice item 13757
> 
> I ordered the 30-feet cable. Does it support HDMI 2.0a? Is it a reliable cable?
> 
> My set-up is as follows (from TV to source): Sony XBR85X950G 85" Bravia TV --> (30 feet) Denon AVRS700W --> (2 feet) Apple TV 4K
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Does the Luxe Active HDMI cable support HDMI 2.0a?
> 2) Is this cable reliable at 30 feet?
> 3) The run from the Bravia to the Denon receiver is going through a conduit in the wall. Any issues with the bending of the cable?
> 
> Non-cable related question: Denon says that the AVRS700W supports 4K and is HDMI 2.0 compliant. Will it pass through Dolby Vision and HDR10 through to the TV?
> 
> Thanks very much for your assistance.


The cable is an active High Speed HDMI cable so yes, it will support HDMI 2.0. Being as the cable is active, it can not be certified by HDMI.org to meet the HDMI 2.0 standard. 30' can be a bit difficult depending on your setup but not impossible. Keep in mind that an active cable is designed to propagate the signal over longer distances with no loss or errors, in theory. It does nothing to improve the signal. That's not a problem for 1080 but 4k HDR is a lot more finicky with its connection so all you can do is try. ARC may or may not work well if that is something you need/want.

The use of conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling so you're good to go there, as long as the conduit diameter is large enough to easily accommodate the cable connector ends without having to pull it through by the connectors. Bend radius is always an issue so as long as you don't have any sharp 90 degree bends you should be ok. The most reliable connection is a single run, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. I would lay the cable out on the floor first and test it thoroughly before installing it.

The Monoprice cable should be able to handle HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10) ok.

Apple TV 4k (source) -> Denon (sink). Denon (source) -> Sony (sink).


----------



## rushabh

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable is an active High Speed HDMI cable so yes, it will support HDMI 2.0. Being as the cable is active, it can not be certified by HDMI.org to meet the HDMI 2.0 standard. 30' can be a bit difficult depending on your setup but not impossible. Keep in mind that an active cable is designed to propagate the signal over longer distances with no loss or errors, in theory. It does nothing to improve the signal. That's not a problem for 1080 but 4k HDR is a lot more finicky with its connection so all you can do is try. ARC may or may not work well if that is something you need/want.
> 
> The use of conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling so you're good to go there, as long as the conduit diameter is large enough to easily accommodate the cable connector ends without having to pull it through by the connectors. Bend radius is always an issue so as long as you don't have any sharp 90 degree bends you should be ok. The most reliable connection is a single run, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. I would lay the cable out on the floor first and test it thoroughly before installing it.
> 
> The Monoprice cable should be able to handle HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10) ok.
> 
> Apple TV 4k (source) -> Denon (sink). Denon (source) -> Sony (sink).


Thank you very much for this informative answer. Appreciate the quick response!


----------



## Otto Pylot

rushabh said:


> Thank you very much for this informative answer. Appreciate the quick response!



You're welcome. Just keep in mind that no cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time for all setups regardless of the product description or marketing spin. The Monoprice cable does have the latest Spectra 7 chipsets so that's a big plus.


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## remsta

Can someone confirm that the RuiPro 4K Hybrid HDMI cables are not eARC compatible? Meaning that if I were to use them in my Home Theatre to run from the LG OLED back to the Denon ARVX-2600H, there would be no Atmos track if something from the TV has Atmos i.e. Netflix, etc.? I would need a different cable?


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## Otto Pylot

remsta said:


> Can someone confirm that the RuiPro 4K Hybrid HDMI cables are not eARC compatible? Meaning that if I were to use them in my Home Theatre to run from the LG OLED back to the Denon ARVX-2600H, there would be no Atmos track if something from the TV has Atmos i.e. Netflix, etc.? I would need a different cable?



The Ruipro4k cables are eARC compatible but at lengths over 15m reliability may become an issue. This is true for any cable and eARC in general. Distance can be an issue.


----------



## Joe Fernand

I would add that as always you will want to test the system before you 'install' a cable to ensure your combination of AVR > RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable > TV works as required for eARC.

Joe

PS The same would hold true no matter which cable you plan to install.


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## remsta

Otto Pylot said:


> The Ruipro4k cables are eARC compatible but at lengths over 15m reliability may become an issue. This is true for any cable and eARC in general. Distance can be an issue.


So from what I read the RuiPro 4K HDMI cable is only compatible with HDMI 2.0 standard. eARC was introduced as part of HDMI 2.1 meaning you need a 2.1 cable and the only RuiPro HDMI 2.1 cable is the 8K one.

_"HDMI 2.0 a/b connections and cables can manage up to 18Gbps bandwidth A/V signals. Despite this hardware great capability, the ARC function is limited to just 1 Mbps bandwidth. So, due to this "not hardware related" limitation, currently there is NO WAY to passthrough audio bitstream signals such as Dolby True HD/Atmos and DTS HD Master Audio/:X via ARC."_


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## Otto Pylot

remsta said:


> So from what I read the RuiPro 4K HDMI cable is only compatible with HDMI 2.0 standard. eARC was introduced as part of HDMI 2.1 meaning you need a 2.1 cable and the only RuiPro HDMI 2.1 cable is the 8K one.
> 
> _"HDMI 2.0 a/b connections and cables can manage up to 18Gbps bandwidth A/V signals. Despite this hardware great capability, the ARC function is limited to just 1 Mbps bandwidth. So, due to this "not hardware related" limitation, currently there is NO WAY to passthrough audio bitstream signals such as Dolby True HD/Atmos and DTS HD Master Audio/:X via ARC."_


The is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable. There are cables that have been tested, but not certified, for some or most of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. 8k is not possible with current panels and there aren't any video sources that require the 48Gbps bandwidth, so any cable that advertises that has to be taken on faith because there aren't any consumer devices or source material that can utilize that bandwidth.

eARC is possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr chose to allow for a firmware update, even though it was announced as part of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. eARC does allow for HD Audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, lossless Atmos, etc) whereas ARC is limited to DD and sometimes lossy Atmos. Both devices, source and sink need to have HDMI chipsets that offer the same option sets. Firmware updated HDMI 2.0 chipsets can handle eARC in some cases. It's the HDMI chipsets that determine what you can do, not necessarily the cable. The cable is just the data pipe. HDMI 2.0 chipsets are standardized to 18Gbps so that's the maximum reliable bandwidth that you are going to be able to utilize. Fully capable (full option sets) HDMI 2.1 chipsets (8k, 48Gbps, etc) are not available yet in most consumer devices. And, according to the HDMI.org marketing and product description guidelines, any device that indicates it is HDMI 2.1 must list which HDMI 2.1 option sets are available.

I have tested the Ruipro4k cables for Ruipro and am currently using them on my system with no issues. I am also testing their 8k cables as well. However, I don't use or need ARC/eARC so that is not part of my testing. That being said, the Ruipro4k cables are tested by an ATC to meet all of the HDMI 2.0 option sets. However, being as they are active cables they can not be labeled as certified nor receive the QR label for authenticity according to the HDMI 2.0 guidelines. The Ruipro4k cables were tested for eARC, and passed, but the limitation was about 15m. ARC/eARC is limited to distance and the longer your cable run is, the more you are apt to have an issue with eARC. Cable installation is also important. The Ruipro8k cables required a better power consumption configuration in their chipsets and Ruipro is still improving on them. While they have been tested by the same ATC as the 4k cables, there have been some issue that came up that has required to go back and rework the chipsets. The CV-19 pandemic has pretty much put all of that on hold and Ruipro is just starting to get back on track.

The most reliable and successful connection will be a single cable run, source to sink, with no adapters, extenders, wall plates, etc in-between.

How long is your cable run and do you know the HDMI hardware protocols that your connected devices have?
@Joe Fernand is correct. Thoroughly test whatever cable you get before final installation to make sure it meets your needs. Lay it out on the floor if need be.


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## remsta

Otto Pylot said:


> How long is your cable run and do you know the HDMI hardware protocols that your connected devices have?


Thanks for this detailed write up Otto, this is great!

Our house will not be built until November 2020 and such we have told the builder to put in 50mm Conduit to ensure there is enough space and we can pull in whatever we need come installation. At this point in time we are looking at a Denon AVRX-2600H or AVRX-3600H and a LG OLED GX Series 65" TV.

I will see if we can get away with a 10m cable but as it is going around the edge of the room to the back where the equiptment will be housed in a closet it might need to be 15m. 

So the RuiPro 4K Hybrid HDMI 2.0 cable should support Atmos?

Thanks.


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## Otto Pylot

remsta said:


> Thanks for this detailed write up Otto, this is great!
> 
> Our house will not be built until November 2020 and such we have told the builder to put in 50mm Conduit to ensure there is enough space and we can pull in whatever we need come installation. At this point in time we are looking at a Denon AVRX-2600H or AVRX-3600H and a LG OLED GX Series 65" TV.
> 
> I will see if we can get away with a 10m cable but as it is going around the edge of the room to the back where the equiptment will be housed in a closet it might need to be 15m.
> 
> So the RuiPro 4K Hybrid HDMI 2.0 cable should support Atmos?
> 
> Thanks.


1.5" - 2.0" conduit is recommended. Smooth interior (not ribbed) with a pull string makes for an easy cable pull and gives you room for extra cable. I'd run some solid copper core CAT-6a (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated CAT-6 ethernet cable) cabling as well. You can always use it to extend an ethernet connection with punch down keystone jacks or extend an HDMI connection by terminating with HDBT. Be very mindful of bend radius because you don't want any sharp 90 degree bends.

eARC and Atmos is possible with HDMI 2.0 should be doable at 30' but you never know until you try. There are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work for a given setup because there's more to a successful connection than just the cable. The Ruipro4k cables are made very well and tested thoroughly but you really need to test it out yourself before installation to make sure that it is going to meet your needs. 

Your future AVR should at least be able to pass eARC but just make sure it is stated somewhere in the specs.

Distance can be a problem for eARC/Atmos so that's why we say test it yourself and don't just go on what the mfr says it can do. Everyone's setup is different. I know the Ruipor8k cables come with a voltage inserter which may be useful at times in case there just isn't enough current to carry the signal from point A to point B without issues. I've tested the voltage inserters but didn't see any difference in signal, but I didn't have any issues to begin with. There may be some degradation of signal because it's not a straight, source to sink connection with no "breaks" but as far as pq goes, I didn't see any difference.

Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are expensive, and the 8k product, when it is tweaked and begins shipping will be even more expensive. There are other hybrid fiber cables to pick from but I've seen the connector ends disassembled and compared side to side with the Ruipro and the build quality of the Ruipro is just better. That being said, with a properly installed conduit and a careful cable pull, you can try different vendors if the Ruipro doesn't work until you find one that does, or upgrade your cable when the time comes. The 8k cables are gonna be awesome but it really is more cable than one needs right now until HDMI 2.1 devices are out in the wild and there is source content to support the 48Gbps bandwidth.


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## Joe Fernand

_'I will see if we can get away with a 10m cable but as it is going around the edge of the room to the back where the equiptment will be housed in a closet it might need to be 15m'_ - I wouldn't worry about installing the longer RuiPro4K cable in terms of eARC if that is going to give you more flexibly and some 'spare' cable to allow you move things around without ever endangering a 'too short' cable.

Joe


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## jshadams782

*A bump in the thread *

Good Afternoon All,

Very long time lurker here ... first time post ...

Having read this and many of the other threads, I feel generally informed on the current status of 4K / eARC long distance cabling (particularly Ruipro and Monoprice) ... thanks!!! ... but do still have a couple of nuanced questions.

I am currently in the process of remodeling a house we recently purchased, and fortunately / unfortunately the living family room is a gigantic space 25' x 40' ... the tv (Sony 77A9G) is going above a fireplace which has floor to ceiling windows on each side ... and have the typical wife problem that all of the guts (likely a denon AVRX 3600 or 4500) MUST be hidden. The nearest storage area that makes sense is in office which, while adjacent to the family room is on the opposite side of the fireplace. As such the runs are likely 80' to 100'. I have placed 1" conduit (solid concrete block core fireplace material) with a pull chord.

Additionally, I know that the current 8K 48GBs product from Monoprice is NOT CL2/3 rated, and RuiPro 8K is only 50'. (Note: I know that many have stated that it shouldn't be a big deal, but language in most people's insurance policies are changing, and the NEC is much more stringent and has specifically called out / reclassified low-voltage wiring to now require labeling ... Given the amount of remodeling I have gone through, that is not an argument I want to get into if the unfortunate does occur). 

Here are my questions? (Hoping that there might have been updates since previous posts)

-> I see that Monoprice product 27393 is CMP rated, but it is inconclusive regarding ARC or eARC ... I realize and have seen Joe's comments about the sporadic nature of ARC/eARC, but has anyone had any luck at the 80/100' distance? Additionally, while it is CMP rated, is it stamped on the cover? I have read many comments that Monoprice will state something is tested but it isn't labeled on the actual product ... has anyone seen this product directly?

Regarding my situation for e-ARC ...
(While it would be ideal to plug everything into the AVR, I have spent a fortune on stored Amazon content and my wife has just got used to the concept of "SmartTVs" ... having her try to navigate the AVR in addition to a tv is a no go  ... and since I am setting up a 7.1 sound system, it would be nice for the Dolby Digital Plus to feed back to the AVR)

-> Similarly I see the RuiPro 4K on amazon (see link below) ... In the description it says ARC, but in the attached pictures it says e-ARC ... even if I select 30M ... is that only for shorter distances? Is this just a one person's guess / situation is different than another's? Also ... it is unclear if the cable is labeled CL2/3 ... again, has anyone had any luck / experience?

AMAZON ... /RUIPRO-Supports-HDMI2-0b-4K60HZ-Bandwidth/dp/B07B7LGGH8?th=1

If neither of the options can do eARC nor are they in-wall rated ... has any heard of any HDBT rumors of supporting eARC? I have seen a couple that support ARC, but I haven't seen anything specific on eARC.

And one final question   (I know that this should probably go in a different area ... but it is all interconnected) ... has anyone used kplisch PRO-180RPC LCR for front left and right speakers? I will be using the Sony A9G with its new sound tech as the center, but as I mentioned left and right of the fireplace is floor to ceiling windows, so in-wall is out of the question ...

Thanks in advance for thoughts and comments!


----------



## Otto Pylot

CL2/3 is a fire rating. It has nothing to do with the cable's performance. The current Ruipro4k cable has been tested for a CL2 rating but is waiting approval the last I heard. They are coming out with an improved 4k cable late this month or next month so it might have the CL2 rating for the jacket by then.


The 1" conduit is good. I would've installed a 1.5" - 2.0" just to give extra space for future pulls but 1" should suffice for an HDMI cable and at least one run of solid copper core CAT-6 or 6a (non-CCS/CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet) cable. You can always use the CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection by terminating with punch down keystone jacks or extend an HDMI connection by terminating with HDBT.


Speaking of HDBT, there is supposed to be a new version of the Valens chipsets that supports uncompressed video. They were announced over a year ago but I don't know if there are any devices that have shipped yet. 



80' - 100' for 4k HDR is going to be difficult for any cable type, and almost impossible for reliable ARC let alone eARC.


I wouldn't worry about 48Gbps and HDMI 2.1. It's going to be quite awhile before there will be source material available that requires the 48Gbps bandwidth let alone devices that have HDMI 2.1 chipsets that have been fully validated for all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. If you're thinking on "future proofing" you've already done that by using conduit. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof because video technology will always outpace connection technology so you need a way to easily and safely upgrade your cable when the time comes. HDMI 2.0 is standardized around 18Gbps which is sufficient for 4k HDR. Even if a cable is certified for 48Gbps, without a source pushing that bandwidth it's really meaningless.


Ruipro4k cables should be able to do eARC up to 15m (about 50') but longer than that, it's problematic. And it's not just Ruipro. Any cable mfr is going to have issues at your stated lengths, regardless of their marketing or product descriptions.


I've tested the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables and the jackets are not stamped with anything, so there is no way to determine fire rating and in the case of the 8k cable, it is not labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. That may change because as I said, Ruipro is coming out with an improved 4k cable and they've re-engineered their 8k cables so they should be available as soon as current testing is completed and they are back up to running at 100% since CV-19.


Hybrid fiber cables is what you want to go with (Ruipro is a hybrid fiber cable) but they are active cables, so they need a reliable power source at the source/sink end. That's where you encounter issues with ARC/eARC at long distances and some of the more demanding option sets of HDMI. The Ruipro8k cables come, or at least the ones that I tested, with voltage inserters in case you need more reliable power at the HDMI port. They are not a guarantee that they will correct any issues but at least you have something to try.

The most reliable connection is a single cable run, from source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc. in-between. This is especially important for active cables, copper only or hybrid fiber and 4k HDR.



Distance is going to be your biggest issue.


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## jshadams782

*Long distance run*

Otto -- thanks!

That is unfortunate regarding ARC and eARC, but helpful to know ... I do wish Amazon (and to a certain extant RuiPro) would change the marketing designations based on the length of cable chosen.

I am well aware of CL2/3 being a fire rating ... hence my commentary about insurance / NEC code ... unfortunately, RuiPro's current lack of labeling rules them out. FWIW, I am in the Finance / Insurance / Energy industry and I am starting to see this discussion really ramp up. If you have a preexisting situation, and all you did is run cables ... I suspect it will be darn near impossible to prove anything. Conversely, if you have been doing a bunch of remodeling requiring all sorts of city inspections ... an Insurance company would have line of sight to say you must have added "X" cable post inspection because it wouldn't have passed and thus creating the "possibility" of liability or mitigating circumstance.

Yeah, I am already pulling two Cat7 (just trying to beat the curve a little) wires. I would have loved to done 1.5" but the fireplace construction behind the granite (which is fun enough) is solid concrete blocks ... an inch may as well have been a mile . Regarding that, one bit of additional code thought ... when recommending someone to put in an >1" conduit, you might want to add that should be bored vs notched ... a 1.5" notch on an exterior or load bearing 2x4 studded wall would be way over the 25% allowance and THAT could be no bueno  

Again, thanks for the specificity!!! ... it certainly helped in NOT purchasing some expensive stuff to only have to return it. I will have to play the wait and see, and constant search and double checking game.

Cheers!


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## Otto Pylot

jshadams782 said:


> Otto -- thanks!
> 
> That is unfortunate regarding ARC and eARC, but helpful to know ... I do wish Amazon (and to a certain extant RuiPro) would change the marketing designations based on the length of cable chosen.
> 
> I am well aware of CL2/3 being a fire rating ... hence my commentary about insurance / NEC code ... unfortunately, RuiPro's current lack of labeling rules them out. FWIW, I am in the Finance / Insurance / Energy industry and I am starting to see this discussion really ramp up. If you have a preexisting situation, and all you did is run cables ... I suspect it will be darn near impossible to prove anything. Conversely, if you have been doing a bunch of remodeling requiring all sorts of city inspections ... an Insurance company would have line of sight to say you must have added "X" cable post inspection because it wouldn't have passed and thus creating the "possibility" of liability or mitigating circumstance.
> 
> Yeah, I am already pulling two Cat7 (just trying to beat the curve a little) wires. I would have loved to done 1.5" but the fireplace construction behind the granite (which is fun enough) is solid concrete blocks ... an inch may as well have been a mile . Regarding that, one bit of additional code thought ... when recommending someone to put in an >1" conduit, you might want to add that should be bored vs notched ... a 1.5" notch on an exterior or load bearing 2x4 studded wall would be way over the 25% allowance and THAT could be no bueno
> 
> Again, thanks for the specificity!!! ... it certainly helped in NOT purchasing some expensive stuff to only have to return it. I will have to play the wait and see, and constant search and double checking game.
> 
> Cheers!



Solid copper core CAT-7 is probably an overkill because CAT-7 is not ratified, I think that's the correct term, like CAT-6 or 6a is, and it's very expensive. With conduit, you can just run solid core CAT-6a and probably be fine for a long time. If, and when CAT-7 design/specs are agreed upon, then you could just pull a new wire if you needed to.


Cable markings have become confusing because it appears that a lot of mfrs don't want to bother with printing cable ratings for LV wiring on their cables like they used to. You can probably download a spec sheet for the cable and file that away if you needed to. For the LV wiring in the conduit that I had installed, I didn't bother with inspections and just used solid copper CAT-6 that is labeled as CM. The solid core cable is from Sewell which makes very good cabling. Ruipro hybrid fiber cable is about as good as you can get right now for HDMI. And the connector ends are a slimline design so they should fish relatively easy thru the 1" conduit as long as you didn't use conduit that is"ribbed" on the inside. It should be smooth on the inside for ease of use. If the conduit is fire rated, then the LV wiring inside shouldn't matter. I don't worry about LV wiring if it's high quality wiring and installed correctly.



Ruipro is coming out with new 4k and 8k cable designs so hopefully they will stamp their cables or at least put that information in accompanied product spec sheet, or at least make it available. What ever you do, lay your cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before you install.


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## Barth Netterfield

*video cutting out*

I asked this in the HT3550 thread, but this may be a better place, since it seems to be hdmi connection related.


I have a BenQ HT3550 projector driven by ONKYO TX-SR494 amp (both brand new).
They are connected with a Monoprice 115430 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 15ft (complete with fancy certified QR code).

I get 2-3 second video dropouts every several minutes.
This is independent of video source (eg, 1080p from ps4, or 2160/60 from chromecast ultra, or 2160/60 from a laptop).

But:
- There are no dropouts if I go straight from the PC on the same 15' cable.
- There are no dropouts using a shorter (10ft?) rocketfish cable between the amp and the Projector.


I have replaced the Monoprice cable in case it was defective, with no effect.

Are there suggestions as to what my next step could be?


I have gotten one suggestion to return/replace the amp (since the cables are certified and work with the laptop), and another to return/replace the cable (since the amp works with the shorter cable).

Should I return & replace the cable (if so, with what)? 

Should I return & replace the amp (are some brands more prone to this kind of trouble than others)?
Or return and replace both?


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## helvetica bold

Its almost June aren't we supposed to see some certified ultra high speed cables soon? I know we don't have real 2.1 sources but I thought it was mentioned CES we should expect cables in June.


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## mrtickleuk

helvetica bold said:


> Its almost June aren't we supposed to see some certified ultra high speed cables soon? I know we don't have real 2.1 sources but I thought it was mentioned CES we should expect cables in June.


Yes but that was before Covid19. All the dates will slip now.


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## Ratman

helvetica bold said:


> Its almost June aren't we supposed to see some certified ultra high speed cables soon? I know we don't have real 2.1 sources but I thought it was mentioned CES we should expect cables in June.


Isn't that like putting the cart before the horse.... with no horse?


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## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Its almost June aren't we supposed to see some certified ultra high speed cables soon? I know we don't have real 2.1 sources but I thought it was mentioned CES we should expect cables in June.



There are some cables with CTS tested connectors that are being advertised as ready for HDMI 2.1 but that's about all. If you're waiting for passive cables up to 20' it's going to be awhile longer. Passive certification is still only up to 10' the last time I checked. Active cable technology will get you those long runs but active can't be certified by HDMI.org  Besides, cables that are ready for HDMI 2.1 are questionable at best because there is no way to validate that they will meet the requirements in consumer devices once the devices are available and there is source material that is going to require the 48Gbps band width. 



I wouldn't worry about UHS HDMI cables until there are consumer devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets and you start upgrading your equipment. As long as you have easy access to your cabling I'd just stick with what you have if it's working and not worry about UHS cables until you really have a need for them. Then upgrade your cabling. We're still stuck with HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) so spending money on UHS cables that are supposed to be able to handle HDMI 2.1 is kind of a waste at this point in time.


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## s s

Otto Pylot said:


> Solid copper core CAT-7 is probably an overkill because CAT-7 is not ratified, I think that's the correct term, like CAT-6 or 6a is, and it's very expensive. With conduit, you can just run solid core CAT-6a and probably be fine for a long time. If, and when CAT-7 design/specs are agreed upon, then you could just pull a new wire if you needed to.
> 
> 
> Cable markings have become confusing because it appears that a lot of mfrs don't want to bother with printing cable ratings for LV wiring on their cables like they used to. You can probably download a spec sheet for the cable and file that away if you needed to. For the LV wiring in the conduit that I had installed, I didn't bother with inspections and just used solid copper CAT-6 that is labeled as CM. The solid core cable is from Sewell which makes very good cabling. Ruipro hybrid fiber cable is about as good as you can get right now for HDMI. And the connector ends are a slimline design so they should fish relatively easy thru the 1" conduit as long as you didn't use conduit that is"ribbed" on the inside. It should be smooth on the inside for ease of use. If the conduit is fire rated, then the LV wiring inside shouldn't matter. I don't worry about LV wiring if it's high quality wiring and installed correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruipro is coming out with new 4k and 8k cable designs so hopefully they will stamp their cables or at least put that information in accompanied product spec sheet, or at least make it available. What ever you do, lay your cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before you install.


Otto, any idea when the 4k cables will come out? I am about to have cable pulled for a 65 ft run and need 2 of the 4k cables, I'd prefer to get the updated version especially if they are coming out soon.


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## teetertotter

helvetica bold said:


> Its almost June aren't we supposed to see some certified ultra high speed cables soon? I know we don't have real 2.1 sources but I thought it was mentioned CES we should expect cables in June.


https://www.vanco1.com/product/pro-series-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet/


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## Otto Pylot

s s said:


> Otto, any idea when the 4k cables will come out? I am about to have cable pulled for a 65 ft run and need 2 of the 4k cables, I'd prefer to get the updated version especially if they are coming out soon.



65' is really long for any cable and 4k HDR. The last time I talked to Ruipro was a couple of weeks ago and they were hoping for late May/June. But with them still trying to catch up after the CV-19 shutdown, they're still behind schedule a bit. I was going to check in with them later on this week so I'll ask again. I take it at 65' you are using a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit?


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## Otto Pylot

teetertotter said:


> https://www.vanco1.com/product/pro-series-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet/



Those are just High Speed HDMI cables. They aren't using the Ultra High Speed HDMI name as they should be if they have truly been certified for 8k (HDMI 2.1), which they haven't been. Their Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0) indicate certified, and do have the Premium tag, but without a QR label for authenticity there's no way of knowing for sure. The 8k cables are just marketing. 



The cables are certainly within the maximum length of 9' for passive UHS HDMI cables but look at the thickness of the cable the presenter is holding in his hand. Bend radius is not very good which can mean increased strain on the HDMI port. No bueno.


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## teetertotter

Sorry, here is the 8K.....https://www.firefold.com/products/vanco-premium-hdmi-cable-2-1-8k-60hz-48gbps-hdr-1-6ft

https://www.amazon.com/8k-hdmi-cable/s?k=8k+hdmi+cable


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## s s

Otto Pylot said:


> 65' is really long for any cable and 4k HDR. The last time I talked to Ruipro was a couple of weeks ago and they were hoping for late May/June. But with them still trying to catch up after the CV-19 shutdown, they're still behind schedule a bit. I was going to check in with them later on this week so I'll ask again. I take it at 65' you are using a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit?


There is a 2" conduit straight down to the unfinished basement and then I have a run from there to the rack with 2 turns. Total length is 65foot. I'm hoping to do two HDMI Cables one from AV receiver in the rack to the TV and one from the TV to the AV receiver (to hook up a game system and have it play through the in wall surround sound speakers). Hoping that will work otherwise the option is to run fiber and use a fiber extender like the AV PRO fiber extender but I'd prefer to just use the HDMI cable if possible.

The receiver is a Denon x3600h and the TV is a Samsung Q90R 75 inch (2019). I also have a cat6a and 2 cat 6 already run to the TV's one connect box so an HDMi extender over cat 6a is also an option but I don't know how to best get the audio from a game system back to the AV receiver in the rack in the basement.


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## Otto Pylot

s s said:


> There is a 2" conduit straight down to the unfinished basement and then I have a run from there to the rack with 2 turns. Total length is 65foot. I'm hoping to do two HDMI Cables one from AV receiver in the rack to the TV and one from the TV to the AV receiver (to hook up a game system and have it play through the in wall surround sound speakers). Hoping that will work otherwise the option is to run fiber and use a fiber extender like the AV PRO fiber extender but I'd prefer to just use the HDMI cable if possible.
> 
> The receiver is a Denon x3600h and the TV is a Samsung Q90R 75 inch (2019). I also have a cat6a and 2 cat 6 already run to the TV's one connect box so an HDMi extender over cat 6a is also an option but I don't know how to best get the audio from a game system back to the AV receiver in the rack in the basement.



Technically the Ruipro4k cable is a fiber cable (hybrid fiber) so you will essentially be running fiber, only better than just a plain fiber cable. Do keep in mind that a 65' hybrid fiber Ruipro4k cable is gonna be expensive. I would also run a solid copper core CAT-6a (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated CAT-6a) cable in the conduit as well. That way you could terminate it with a punch down keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection so you could hardwire your HTS or whatever, or you could terminate with HDBT should you choose to run another HDMI connection. I see you're already running CAT-6a so if it's solid core, you're good to go.


Remember, anytime you introduce a "break" in the HDMI chain (wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc) you run the risk of connection issues because 4k HDR, especially over a long distance (>25' or so) can be very finicky with its connections so you want to keep your 4k HDR connection to a single cable, source to sink. ARC/eARC are the options most often affected by long runs with "breaks" so that's why we suggest you thoroughly test your cabling to make sure it's going to meet your needs before installation.


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## s s

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically the Ruipro4k cable is a fiber cable (hybrid fiber) so you will essentially be running fiber, only better than just a plain fiber cable. Do keep in mind that a 65' hybrid fiber Ruipro4k cable is gonna be expensive. I would also run a solid copper core CAT-6a (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated CAT-6a) cable in the conduit as well. That way you could terminate it with a punch down keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection so you could hardwire your HTS or whatever, or you could terminate with HDBT should you choose to run another HDMI connection. I see you're already running CAT-6a so if it's solid core, you're good to go.
> 
> 
> Remember, anytime you introduce a "break" in the HDMI chain (wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc) you run the risk of connection issues because 4k HDR, especially over a long distance (>25' or so) can be very finicky with its connections so you want to keep your 4k HDR connection to a single cable, source to sink. ARC/eARC are the options most often affected by long runs with "breaks" so that's why we suggest you thoroughly test your cabling to make sure it's going to meet your needs before installation.


Yes the cables that are in the walls already are 2 cat 6 solid copper core not CCA/CCS and 1 cat 6a to each TV location plus a 1.5" conduit from each TV location either up to the attic or down to basement. There are also 2 2" conduits from basement by the rack to the attic. If we ever finish the basement I will also extend the conduit from each first floor TV location to the rack area to make sure I can always run new wire to the TVs as things change. 

Hopefully the long run HDMI cable from Ruipro works for me, if so I'll be able to avoid baluns/extenders. If it doesn't work any suggestions for best extender/balun that can do 4k HDR 4:4:4? I know the cable can only do 4k 4:2:0 with HDR but all movie/TV content is only 4:2:0 HDR anyways (hopefully that is correct but it is all super confusing).


----------



## Otto Pylot

s s said:


> Yes the cables that are in the walls already are 2 cat 6 solid copper core not CCA/CCS and 1 cat 6a to each TV location plus a 1.5" conduit from each TV location either up to the attic or down to basement. There are also 2 2" conduits from basement by the rack to the attic. If we ever finish the basement I will also extend the conduit from each first floor TV location to the rack area to make sure I can always run new wire to the TVs as things change.
> 
> Hopefully the long run HDMI cable from Ruipro works for me, if so I'll be able to avoid baluns/extenders. If it doesn't work any suggestions for best extender/balun that can do 4k HDR 4:4:4? I know the cable can only do 4k 4:2:0 with HDR but all movie/TV content is only 4:2:0 HDR anyways (hopefully that is correct but it is all super confusing).



Excellent planning ahead with the conduits and CAT-6a cabling. 4:4:4 chroma is not really necessary unless you're a gamer and the game has been encoded that way. For streaming I think 4:2:0 will be around for a long time still if only for the bandwidth conservation.


I do know that the Ruipro8k cables I tested earlier in the year came with voltage inserters so maybe the new 4k cables will as well. All you need is a USB power source (receiver, tv, etc) or you can use a wall adapter. The cable part is about 17" long if I remember correctly so you don't have to have the "dongle" part close to a power source. That may work if you have power-related issues with the hybrid fiber cables. Unfortunately, trial and error is still part of the game. You really should figure out a way to test the cables before installation. I trust you have pull strings in the conduits as well.



HDBT may work with the CAT-6a cables but you will still get compressed video until the new Valens chipsets are ready for the new units and it's anybody's guess as to when that will happen. HDBT is also a tad bit expensive.


----------



## s s

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent planning ahead with the conduits and CAT-6a cabling. 4:4:4 chroma is not really necessary unless you're a gamer and the game has been encoded that way. For streaming I think 4:2:0 will be around for a long time still if only for the bandwidth conservation.
> 
> 
> I do know that the Ruipro8k cables I tested earlier in the year came with voltage inserters so maybe the new 4k cables will as well. All you need is a USB power source (receiver, tv, etc) or you can use a wall adapter. The cable part is about 17" long if I remember correctly so you don't have to have the "dongle" part close to a power source. That may work if you have power-related issues with the hybrid fiber cables. Unfortunately, trial and error is still part of the game. You really should figure out a way to test the cables before installation. I trust you have pull strings in the conduits as well.
> 
> 
> 
> HDBT may work with the CAT-6a cables but you will still get compressed video until the new Valens chipsets are ready for the new units and it's anybody's guess as to when that will happen. HDBT is also a tad bit expensive.


When you say HDBT may work, what do you mean? Using an extender? HDBT confuses me as to what it actually is. Also there is mention of the new Valens chipset is that with an extender?

The two long conduits have pull strings I can see the other side of the conduits for all of the others so easy to pull through or just drop a string with a weight on it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

s s said:


> When you say HDBT may work, what do you mean? Using an extender? HDBT confuses me as to what it actually is. Also there is mention of the new Valens chipset is that with an extender?
> 
> The two long conduits have pull strings I can see the other side of the conduits for all of the others so easy to pull through or just drop a string with a weight on it.



With HDBT and solid core CAT-6a, you directly wire the cable to the unit(s). Some HDBT units work better than others because of the build quality and the HDMI chipsets used. The Valens (3000) chipsets were announced almost two years ago but haven't been incorporated yet as far as I know. The nice thing about HDBT is that the units are external to the cable in the wall so when the time comes, you can upgrade the units (tx/rx). There is another frequent poster here who is very knowledgeable about HDBT so hopefully he'll pop in and answer any HDBT questions you may have.


The Ruipro cables are very flexible with thin-style connectors so running them thru a conduit should be fairly easy if you have smooth interior wall conduit. You will need to use your best judgement on how to run the cables so just be careful of the connector ends because you don't want to damage them during installation.


----------



## Tweakophyte

Hi-

Has anyone tested "AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable". It looks relatively new. I've asked if it supports eARC on the Q&A page.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tweakophyte said:


> Hi-
> 
> Has anyone tested "AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable". It looks relatively new. I've asked if it supports eARC on the Q&A page.



It's just an active fiber cable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. No mention of it being hybrid fiber so my guess that while ARC is supported, eARC is not. 50' can be difficult to any cable and eARC. Try it and see it if meets your expectations. If not, return it.


If eARC is an absolute must, then you'd be better off to investigate a hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k, but they are expensive.


----------



## acho

anyone tried Orico/Ugreen/Vention 15m+fiber optic hdmi cables on Native 4K Projectors? they only cost around 20% of the typically expensive fiber optic hdmi cables.


----------



## teetertotter

As another source, but no mention of eARC. Or you can contact them direct.

https://www.vanco1.com/product/active-optical-hdmi-fiber-cable-with-hdr-2/

Then if you'd like to purchase, you can go here: 

https://www.firefold.com/products/vanco-active-high-speed-hdmi-r-optical-cables-cl3-18gbps-35-330ft


----------



## Otto Pylot

teetertotter said:


> As another source, but no mention of eARC. Or you can contact them direct.
> 
> https://www.vanco1.com/product/active-optical-hdmi-fiber-cable-with-hdr-2/
> 
> Then if you'd like to purchase, you can go here:
> 
> https://www.firefold.com/products/vanco-active-high-speed-hdmi-r-optical-cables-cl3-18gbps-35-330ft



Both of those are hybrid fiber cables supposedly capable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. As mentioned, eARC is going to be difficult unless specifically tested for and neither one of those mention it. ARC capability does not guarantee eARC capability, especially if one is only using HDMI 2.0 chipsets at the source and sink end. Both chipsets need to be upgraded to eARC capability if the mfr designed that in. The cable is just the data pipe, nothing more.


----------



## helvetica bold

Any thoughts on which you guys prefer, Monoprive Ultra Slim Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable vs Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable. 
Its basically down to 28AWG vs 34AWG. 34AWG is less tension on the HDMI ports so Im leaning towards that. I just bought a new OLED and Im connecting PS4 Pro and Xbox One X plus a sound bar. Thankfully the distance it no longer than 6'.


----------



## Seryl

helvetica bold said:


> Any thoughts on which you guys prefer, Monoprive Ultra Slim Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable vs Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable.
> Its basically down to 28AWG vs 34AWG. 34AWG is less tension on the HDMI ports so Im leaning towards that. I just bought a new OLED and Im connecting PS4 Pro and Xbox One X plus a sound bar. Thankfully the distance it no longer than 6'.


I use them both and prefer the slims but they don't always work in my system. I first test with an Ultra Slim but find the occasional device that will only work with the heavier cable. I was hoping that the slims would plumb my entire system, they are a joy to use when compared to stiff heavier cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Any thoughts on which you guys prefer, Monoprive Ultra Slim Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable vs Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable.
> Its basically down to 28AWG vs 34AWG. 34AWG is less tension on the HDMI ports so Im leaning towards that. I just bought a new OLED and Im connecting PS4 Pro and Xbox One X plus a sound bar. Thankfully the distance it no longer than 6'.



At 6' you shouldn't have any issues with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable so it's what ever works best for you. Performance should be the same being as both are Premium High Speed HDMI cables (with the QR label for authenticity).


----------



## Tweakophyte

FYI... I am having major eARC issue with a Ruipro 10M cable. It has intermittent screeching (loud static sound), audio dropouts and timing issues where the voices are deep, lower pitched, and slow.

I have reset the devices several times and re-seated the cables. The firmware is up to date. The TV is a Sony x950g and the receiver is the new Denon x4700x.

The issue has been getting worse from when I first got the cable. I was very careful when I set things up. There are no major bends to the cable. All cables were very carefully run as it was a clean install of the new receiver. 

I asked them if they've had eARC issues at 10M... any thoughts if it will happen again? Any thoughts on an alternate solution? Would an "8K cable" help?


----------



## _Vindicare_

Tweakophyte said:


> FYI... I am having major eARC issue with a Ruipro 10M cable. It has intermittent screeching (loud static sound), audio dropouts and timing issues where the voices are deep, lower pitched, and slow.
> 
> I have reset the devices several times and re-seated the cables. The firmware is up to date. The TV is a Sony x950g and the receiver is the new Denon x4700x.
> 
> The issue has been getting worse from when I first got the cable. I was very careful when I set things up. There are no major bends to the cable. All cables were very carefully run as it was a clean install of the new receiver.
> 
> I asked them if they've had eARC issues at 10M... any thoughts if it will happen again? Any thoughts on an alternate solution? Would an "8K cable" help?


Have you managed to test the whole chain with shorter cables? Just to troubleshoot if it's not a handshake issue between the devices.


----------



## Tweakophyte

Tweakophyte said:


> FYI... I am having major eARC issue with a Ruipro 10M cable. It has intermittent screeching (loud static sound), audio dropouts and timing issues where the voices are deep, lower pitched, and slow.
> 
> I have reset the devices several times and re-seated the cables. The firmware is up to date. The TV is a Sony x950g and the receiver is the new Denon x4700x.
> 
> The issue has been getting worse from when I first got the cable. I was very careful when I set things up. There are no major bends to the cable. All cables were very carefully run as it was a clean install of the new receiver.
> 
> I asked them if they've had eARC issues at 10M... any thoughts if it will happen again? Any thoughts on an alternate solution? Would an "8K cable" help?





_Vindicare_ said:


> Have you managed to test the whole chain with shorter cables? Just to troubleshoot if it's not a handshake issue between the devices.


The whole chain is really just the receiver and the TV, and I need the length. I'll test again when the new cable comes, and see if I can run the HDMI diagnostic on the receiver as well. I'd hope the new cable deals with any potential handshake issues as my next shortest cable is 12ft...and too short.

Thx


----------



## RagnarSeven

Hi guys, sorry my english, I need a 12/15 meter HDMI cable, to connect my PS4 PRO to my SONY A1 TV, I opted for this:






Primewire – 15m - Cavo HDMI con Fibra Ottica: Amazon.it: Elettronica


Compra Primewire – 15m - Cavo HDMI con Fibra Ottica - 4K da 15 Metri – 2.0b 4k 60Hz con HDR - 3D - Arc - CEC - HDCP 2.2 - YUV 4 x 4 x 4 – Cavo Sottile Adatto a Lunghe distanze. SPEDIZIONE GRATUITA su ordini idonei



www.amazon.it





the problem I encountered is: my TV has 4 HDMI ports, of which only two with 4K HDR 60fps, this cable I connected above two 4K HDR 60fps ports does not work on PS4 PRO, while in the other 2 hdmi ports without HDR it works , I made the return to Amazon.

ps. with my old original sony cable (very short) instead everything works fine, I have seen the cable you recommend from RuiPro, but for me it is really too expensive, is there a great model for my less expensive case? hdmi cable ps4 pro hdr 60fps?

ps: I'll be taking the PS5 in the future, so I guess I don't want to spend too much on a momentary PS4 cable, right? I would spend a lot if there was already a great one for PS5 12-15 meters long, using it for now on ps4 pro.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RagnarSeven said:


> Hi guys, sorry my english, I need a 12/15 meter HDMI cable, to connect my PS4 PRO to my SONY A1 TV, I opted for this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Primewire – 15m - Cavo HDMI con Fibra Ottica: Amazon.it: Elettronica
> 
> 
> Compra Primewire – 15m - Cavo HDMI con Fibra Ottica - 4K da 15 Metri – 2.0b 4k 60Hz con HDR - 3D - Arc - CEC - HDCP 2.2 - YUV 4 x 4 x 4 – Cavo Sottile Adatto a Lunghe distanze. SPEDIZIONE GRATUITA su ordini idonei
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the problem I encountered is: my TV has 4 HDMI ports, of which only two with 4K HDR 60fps, this cable I connected above two 4K HDR 60fps ports does not work on PS4 PRO, while in the other 2 hdmi ports without HDR it works , I made the return to Amazon.
> 
> ps. with my old original sony cable (very short) instead everything works fine, I have seen the cable you recommend from RuiPro, but for me it is really too expensive, is there a great model for my less expensive case? hdmi cable ps4 pro hdr 60fps?
> 
> ps: I'll be taking the PS5 in the future, so I guess I don't want to spend too much on a momentary PS4 cable, right? I would spend a lot if there was already a great one for PS5 12-15 meters long, using it for now on ps4 pro.


15m (45') is going to be tough for any cable regardless of slick marketing or product claims. The new Ruipro8k cable can handle 4k/60fps but yes, they are expensive. However, they do work well for most setups and Ruipro support is very good. Keep in mind that hybrid fiber cables (fiber core surrounded by copper wiring) are active cables and the reliability/compatibility is based around the robustness of the chipsest used. Some companies use "off-the-shelf" active chipsets and other companines, like Ruipro, use proprietary chipsets which can and does make a difference.

You didn't say what the problem was. Active cables draw a little bit of current from the sink end to "power" the chips in the connector end, so it's important that your cable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between.


----------



## helvetica bold

Dusting this thread off!  I wonder if we will see certified ultra high speed cables soon. Nvidia's amperes line is confirmed for hdmi 2.1 @ 48gbps. Also with new console generation coming within the next2 months maybe we'll see something soon. I do expect the new game systems to have cables included.


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Dusting this thread off!  I wonder if we will see certified ultra high speed cables soon. Nvidia's amperes line is confirmed for hdmi 2.1 @ 48gbps. Also with new console generation coming within the next2 months maybe we'll see something soon. I do expect the new game systems to have cables included.


Still issues with certification by an ATC for passive cable lengths longer than 3m (9'). Once certified, the cables will probably be a bit thicker so bend radius may be an issue for some. For longer lengths, and if you have a source that requires 48Gbps, then an active hybrid fiber is still the way to go (Ruipro8k). If the new consoles do come with their own cables hopefully they won't have proprietary connectors (MHL -> HDMI for example) and use standard HDMI -> HDMI connectors.


----------



## scubasteve2365

Currently planning a long HDMI run, looking at the RUIPRO 8K to future proof myself, I only need 4k/60/HDR at the moment, but why invest in a $130 cable and then a $180 cable later.

My only question: This is my first optical fiber HDMI cable and I game quite a bit. Do these cables introduce any latency over a copper cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

scubasteve2365 said:


> Currently planning a long HDMI run, looking at the RUIPRO 8K to future proof myself, I only need 4k/60/HDR at the moment, but why invest in a $130 cable and then a $180 cable later.
> 
> My only question: This is my first optical fiber HDMI cable and I game quite a bit. Do these cables introduce any latency over a copper cable?


Depending on the length of your cable run, the ONLY way to future proof is to install your cabling in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cabling. The chances of possibly needing to replace your cables as video standards increase is very likely. There is no way to really know for sure how well the 8k cables, by any mfr, will perform, especially for gamers at this point in time. Ruipro would probably be your best bet but cable length, installation, source and sink HDMI chipsets, etc will ultimately decide. No cable mfr can offer you a 100% guarantee that their cables will perform as you expect or need so all you can do is try. The cable is just a data pipe, so as lengths increase and video standards become more demanding your connected devices become even more critical. Distance will always be the achilles heel for HDMI, especially for options like eARC.


----------



## Yoti

Hi this is a bit of an odd question, I have this fiber optic cable believe its a hybrid cable with fibre and copper:

ibrah 15metre fiber optic cable

I have a LG CX TV and usually the above ibrah fiber hdmi cable goes straight into hdmi port 1, well it worked perfect for 4 months then LG CX it started to make a popping/cracking noise (near the hdmi ports), basically I think the fiber optic maybe it damaged the TV mainboard. My settings worked fine @ RGB 4.4.4/full dynamic @ 4K/HDR/DV 60hz windows10.

I am not 100% sure of this naturally so figured to ask here, now any device or hdmi cable I use on hdmi ports 1,2,3 are causing the popping/cracking noise. Hdmi port 4 on the other hand survived ! no issues with any device or hdmi cable although not plugging in the fiber optic cable in there or the tv again.

I would be very careful of these fiber optic or any hdmi cables maybe best to unplug the power TV cable and leave it for few minutes before you swop or insert or disconnect the hdmi cables and try not to bend these super stiff cables, I did try leaving a slack (u bend shape) and taking precautions but I think I still screwed up my LG CX TV, still waiting on LG warranty to get back to me but do have 5 year cover as backup so should be fine for a repair regardless.

In future ill stick with hdmi premium approved and short 1.8m-3metre cables + thin cables and take above precautions 10x more seriously.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yoti said:


> Hi this is a bit of an odd question, I have this fiber optic cable believe its a hybrid cable with fibre and copper:
> 
> ibrah 15metre fiber optic cable
> 
> I have a LG CX TV and usually the above ibrah fiber hdmi cable goes straight into hdmi port 1, well it worked perfect for 4 months then LG CX it started to make a popping/cracking noise (near the hdmi ports), basically I think the fiber optic maybe it damaged the TV mainboard. My settings worked fine @ RGB 4.4.4/full dynamic @ 4K/HDR/DV 60hz windows10.
> 
> I am not 100% sure of this naturally so figured to ask here, now any device or hdmi cable I use on hdmi ports 1,2,3 are causing the popping/cracking noise. Hdmi port 4 on the other hand survived ! no issues with any device or hdmi cable although not plugging in the fiber optic cable in there or the tv again.
> 
> I would be very careful of these fiber optic or any hdmi cables maybe best to unplug the power TV cable and leave it for few minutes before you swop or insert or disconnect the hdmi cables and try not to bend these super stiff cables, I did try leaving a slack (u bend shape) and taking precautions but I think I still screwed up my LG CX TV, still waiting on LG warranty to get back to me but do have 5 year cover as backup so should be fine for a repair regardless.
> 
> In future ill stick with hdmi premium approved and short 1.8m-3metre cables + thin cables and take above precautions 10x more seriously.


A well made and properly QC'd hybrid fiber cable should not damage the HDMI port. That being said, active cables should not be hot-swapped. It's always best practice to power down the connected devices completely before swapping the cable out. I've been using active cables for years (and have tested quite a few from a highly respectable mfr) and have never experienced those issues. The cable you link to uses all of the buzz words and fancy marketing but my guess is that it's just not a well made cable if in fact the cable caused the issues. Hybrid fiber cables, by their very design, have a very good bend radius so that should not be an issue. If this cable was stiffer than expected, something is definitely wrong with the cable.

At 3m (9') you shouldn't be using an active cable anyway because you don't get any better performance from an active cable at that length than you do from a passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. If you want to push the HDMI 2.1 options sets, there are now certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables up to 5m (16') that you can use. However, they are thicker than active cables so be very mindful of bend radius and strain on the HDMI port.


----------



## Yoti

Otto Pylot said:


> A well made and properly QC'd hybrid fiber cable should not damage the HDMI port. That being said, active cables should not be hot-swapped. It's always best practice to power down the connected devices completely before swapping the cable out. I've been using active cables for years (and have tested quite a few from a highly respectable mfr) and have never experienced those issues. The cable you link to uses all of the buzz words and fancy marketing but my guess is that it's just not a well made cable if in fact the cable caused the issues. Hybrid fiber cables, by their very design, have a very good bend radius so that should not be an issue. If this cable was stiffer than expected, something is definitely wrong with the cable.
> 
> At 3m (9') you shouldn't be using an active cable anyway because you don't get any better performance from an active cable at that length than you do from a passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. If you want to push the HDMI 2.1 options sets, there are now certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables up to 5m (16') that you can use. However, they are thicker than active cables so be very mindful of bend radius and strain on the HDMI port.


thanks, could have just been bad timing when you say not to hot swappable, have you ever seen a case where it may have done damage ?

I think that is what happen with my case, maybe I forgot to switch off the TV at one point while sorting out some cable management, I also think it happen similar time frame when I updated the firmware.

The 15 metre ibrah fiber optic cable I still have works fine though its average thin and smooth plastic and bendy but I don't risk major bends on it, just very weary of plugging it directly in the TV and having the same fault occur also.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yoti said:


> thanks, could have just been bad timing when you say not to hot swappable, have you ever seen a case where it may have done damage ?
> 
> I think that is what happen with my case, maybe I forgot to switch off the TV at one point while sorting out some cable management, I also think it happen similar time frame when I updated the firmware.
> 
> The 15 metre ibrah fiber optic cable I still have works fine though its average thin and smooth plastic and bendy but I don't risk major bends on it, just very weary of plugging it directly in the TV and having the same fault occur also.


The only HDMI port damage that I've seen documented was a power surge thru the HDMI cable. The Ibre cable just seems to be a bit questionable to me and if it does use faulty or cheap chipsets in the connector ends you could have issues down the road. If it were me, and you only want to push the HDMI 2.0 option sets, then I'd replace the cable with a different hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro 4k. If not, look to a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable as suggested.


----------



## Yoti

Otto Pylot said:


> The only HDMI port damage that I've seen documented was a power surge thru the HDMI cable. The Ibre cable just seems to be a bit questionable to me and if it does use faulty or cheap chipsets in the connector ends you could have issues down the road. If it were me, and you only want to push the HDMI 2.0 option sets, then I'd replace the cable with a different hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro 4k. If not, look to a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable as suggested.


thanks its something to consider, wish I went with Ruipro sounds like they offer good support. Ibrah support is non existent when I sent an email, although I do like the cable it allowed me to play nicely with hitting 4K, 60hertz, RGB, full dynamics while a different fiber optic (ugomi) failed pretty badly with flickering, even reducing settings did not work.

I think though I may re-adjust a few things and see if I can bypass using long distance fiber optic cables all together and stick with basic premium certified shorter cables I don't game or push high end specs, this was more for getting a silent PC and moving a noisy box far away from my sensitive ears.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yoti said:


> thanks its something to consider, wish I went with Ruipro sounds like they offer good support. Ibrah support is non existent when I sent an email, although I do like the cable it allowed me to play nicely with hitting 4K, 60hertz, RGB, full dynamics while a different fiber optic (ugomi) failed pretty badly with flickering, even reducing settings did not work.
> 
> I think though I may re-adjust a few things and see if I can bypass using long distance fiber optic cables all together and stick with basic premium certified shorter cables I don't game or push high end specs, this was more for getting a silent PC and moving a noisy box far away from my sensitive ears.


Keep in mind that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups, regardless of their slick marketing for product claims.


----------



## Yoti

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups, regardless of their slick marketing for product claims.


Yes very true, I get the feeling these shorter run 1.8-3m hdmi cables feel more reliable and safer.

Its a more gut instinct with my fault, no real facts tbf just my ibra cable was slotted into hdmi 1 and that port appears more faulty then ports 2/3 with much louder random clicking overs ports 2/3. I suspect hdmi port 4 (back of unit vs the side ports hdmi 1-3) is separated on the tv mainboard or on its own chipset/path which is why it appears fault free, course could just be genuine faulty tv mainboard. HDMI ports are defiantly not hot swappable as you say, hopefully LG fix this issue.


----------



## nogud

I'm trying to choose a 9 or 10m cable.

I'm not sure this is the product show on the pdf in the first page, as the website doesn't have a reference. Is it obvious for any of you?

Any recommendation for a good cable in that length that I can get in Europe would be welcome.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nogud said:


> I'm trying to choose a 9 or 10m cable.
> 
> I'm not sure this is the product show on the pdf in the first page, as the website doesn't have a reference. Is it obvious for any of you?
> 
> Any recommendation for a good cable in that length that I can get in Europe would be welcome.


At 10m (about 30' or so), the Ruipro that you link to should work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but I am not familiar with the reseller. That cable is the generic Ruipro 4k cable that they first offered over a year ago. They are active cables so cable orientation is important and you need to be careful with any hybrid fiber cable on how it is installed. If this is an in-wall installation then the use of conduit is highly recommended. That makes for a safer and easier installation process and provides an excellent method for upgrading your cable should you need to do so in the future (which you probably will). If you don't have a conuduit, then there are some precautions that you need to follow during the cable pull.


----------



## nbean16

Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but this seems like the best place to ask and I cannot get an answer anywhere. I am currently using a 30ft monoprice hdmi 2.0 cable to connect my PC to my receiver. It is a passive cable but it does work and seemingly has no issues. I use it to play games at 4k 60hz HDR RGB full 8 bit.

Everything I read seems to show a passive cable of that length should not function very well or carry the full 18gbps bandwidth.

Here is my question. If it is displaying picture and sound and I do not have any flickering am I to assume the cable is in fact working perfectly? If I switch to an active cable is it possible the image would see any visual benefit? How would I ever be aware if my current cable is having trouble with the full bandwidth? Is this a case of if the current cable is displaying picture I am good to go?

Thanks


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but this seems like the best place to ask and I cannot get an answer anywhere. I am currently using a 30ft monoprice hdmi 2.0 cable to connect my PC to my receiver. It is a passive cable but it does work and seemingly has no issues. I use it to play games at 4k 60hz HDR RGB full 8 bit.
> 
> Everything I read seems to show a passive cable of that length should not function very well or carry the full 18gbps bandwidth.
> 
> Here is my question. If it is displaying picture and sound and I do not have any flickering am I to assume the cable is in fact working perfectly? If I switch to an active cable is it possible the image would see any visual benefit? How would I ever be aware if my current cable is having trouble with the full bandwidth? Is this a case of if the current cable is displaying picture I am good to go?
> 
> Thanks


"If I switch to an active cable is it possible the image would see any visual benefit?" No.
"Is this a case of if the current cable is displaying picture I am good to go?" Yes.
"Everything I read seems to show a passive cable of that length should not function very well or carry the full 18gbps bandwidth." The longer the cable the less likely it will work without issues. My 25' Monoprice was fine until I wanted to do full HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) with an RTX 3080 and 4k, 120Hz, 4:4:4, 10-12bit for games.


----------



## Ratman

nbean16 said:


> Here is my question. If it is displaying picture and sound and I do not have any flickering am I to assume the cable is in fact working perfectly?


After many years, I now make a point to not fix anything that isn't broken. 🛠


----------



## nbean16

Thank you. This is my thinking as well but I'm always trying to get the most out if my setup. Here us another question. Right now I can do 4k 60hz with 8 bit RGB color. As I understand it, hdmi 2.0 does not have the bandwidth to do 10 bit color at those settings. Now my GPU (3080ti) is hdmi 2.1 compatible. My TV is obviously not HDMI 2.1 compatible, however, if I used an hdmi 2.1 cable with higher bandwidth, would it allow me to use 10 bit color at 60hz? Or would the limitation on the display side not allow this?


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> Thank you. This is my thinking as well but I'm always trying to get the most out if my setup. Here us another question. Right now I can do 4k 60hz with 8 bit RGB color. As I understand it, hdmi 2.0 does not have the bandwidth to do 10 bit color at those settings. Now my GPU (3080ti) is hdmi 2.1 compatible. My TV is obviously not HDMI 2.1 compatible, however, if I used an hdmi 2.1 cable with higher bandwidth, would it allow me to use 10 bit color at 60hz? Or would the limitation on the display side not allow this?


It's up to the display and the device feeding it not the cable. The cable can not add features to the HDMI devices. You can look up some HDMI charts and see what HDMI 2.0 and or 18Gbps should support. The video driver may let you set the output to 10-bit color but the display may not be able to use it.

Also, some displays can simple ignore 10 and 12-bit color data even if it makes it to the TV and it's hard to tell if you are getting 10 and 12-bit color. It mostly just helps out with color banding in scenes with large areas that slow shift from one color to another.

Also, most game engines will not make use of the 10 or 12-bit color. 4k UHD discs are the only thing I've really seen the 10-bit color help out.

4k, 60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma at 10bit should be around 20Gbps and could work if the TV can do it.
4k, 60Hz, 4:2:2 chroma at 10bit should be around 18Gbps and should work if the TV can do it.

You can just try and see but if you start to get dropouts or no signal that it could be the TV or cable. As you push it closer to and more that an 18Gbps signal that the cable may be the issue. You can test with a short good quality cable to rule out the cable.


----------



## nbean16

Tanquen said:


> It's up to the display and the device feeding it not the cable. The cable can not add features to the HDMI devices. You can look up some HDMI charts and see what HDMI 2.0 and or 18Gbps should support. The video driver may let you set the output to 10-bit color but the display may not be able to use it.
> 
> 4k, 60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma at 10bit should be around 20Gbps and could work if the TV can do it.
> 4k, 60Hz, 4:2:2 chroma at 10bit should be around 18Gbps and should work if the TV can do it.


I get a cable wont add features. I was just thinking that my display supports 10 bit color, but the only limitation is bandwidth of the cable with what i am attempting. So I was thinking maybe this would work with a larger bandwidth cable. Or does the port in the tv itself only allow 18gbps?


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> I get a cable wont add features. I was just thinking that my display supports 10 bit color, but the only limitation is bandwidth of the cable with what i am attempting. So I was thinking maybe this would work with a larger bandwidth cable. Or does the port in the tv itself only allow 18gbps?


"Or does the port in the tv itself only allow 18gbps? " Yes but see my last post for info I added. You could do 10-bit color if you drop the chroma and that can make text and other things look funny or soft.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nbean16 said:


> I get a cable wont add features. I was just thinking that my display supports 10 bit color, but the only limitation is bandwidth of the cable with what i am attempting. So I was thinking maybe this would work with a larger bandwidth cable. Or does the port in the tv itself only allow 18gbps?


If the HDMI chipset at the port is HDMI 2.0b, it is standardized around 18Gbps. It can probably handle a higher bandwidth input but will be limited as far as options go, to what the HDMI chipsets are designed for. A 30' passive cable should be ok for the HDMI 2.0 options, and if you are not getting any sparkles, dropouts, you are getting everything that the source is sending successfully. You are limited to what the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end are capable of. As mentioned, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. A certified, UHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.1 options sets) can't hurt but you won't get any better performance. The same for an active cable.


----------



## Ratman

nbean16 said:


> Or would the limitation on the display side not allow this?


The tv/display will only perform to it's specification(s). A cable will not and cannot change that.


----------



## nbean16

Ratman said:


> The tv/display will only perform to it's specification(s). A cable will not and cannot change that.


Ok. I guess my thinking is that the display is a 10 bit panel. The only limitation is bandwidth. Will the hdmi 2.0 not allow more than 18gbps to be received? Sounds like that is the case but I wasn't certain. Wasn't wanting to buy a $170 cable to test.


----------



## nbean16

Tanquen said:


> "Or does the port in the tv itself only allow 18gbps? " Yes but see my last post for info I added. You could do 10-bit color if you drop the chroma and that can make text and other things look funny or soft.
> View attachment 3195598
> 
> View attachment 3195597


Yeah I text is hard enough to read as is in some games haha. Was only interested in seeing 8f rgb 10 bit was possible at 4k60hz


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> Yeah I text is hard enough to read as is in some games haha. Was only interested in seeing 8f rgb 10 bit was possible at 4k60hz


You can try it with the settings I listed. I think 4k, 60Hz, 4:4:4 Chroma, 8-bit will be more noticeable than a lower chroma and 10-bit. Again, most game engines don't use 10-bit color anyway.


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> Yeah I text is hard enough to read as is in some games haha. Was only interested in seeing 8f rgb 10 bit was possible at 4k60hz


It's totally possible but the TV may not support it and even if it does you most likely will not be able to to tell. A color depth lower than 8-bit or a frame rate lower than 60Hz or lower chroma or no HDR is way easier to see than 8 vs 10-bit color. Most games that have color banding with 8-bit will still have it with 10-bit.

What video card do you have? What happens if you try to use 4k, 60Hz, HDR, 10-bit? If it don't work or the setting in the driver is not there you may need to drop the chroma and or the TV don't support it. If you can set the driver with 10-bit but the image drops out it could be the cable. If you can get the PC closer and test with a shorter cable and see if it the longer cable.


----------



## nbean16

Tanquen said:


> It's totally possible but the TV may not support it and even if it does you most likely will not be able to to tell. A color depth lower than 8-bit or a frame rate lower than 60Hz or lower chroma or no HDR is way easier to see than 8 vs 10-bit color. Most games that have color banding with 8-bit will still have it with 10-bit.
> 
> What video card do you have? What happens if you try to use 4k, 60Hz, HDR, 10-bit? If it don't work or the setting in the driver is not there you may need to drop the chroma and or the TV don't support it. If you can set the driver with 10-bit but the image drops out it could be the cable. If you can get the PC closer and test with a shorter cable and see if it the longer cable.


I have an rtx 3080 Ti Fe. I was just thinking the 10 bit may look better with the games that support HDR. The setup I have now is using 4k60hz, HDR, RGB full in nvidia control panel and 8 bit (I was hoping I could leave everything as is but be able to use RGB full with 10bit. As it is now 10 bit is only an option if I drop to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0). Just was thinking if the only limitation to getting 10 bit with these settings was the cable bandwith, it may work. I know my card is 2.1 compliant but not the tv or receiver. Obviously if the hdmi chipset in the receiver and display just won't allow it then I'm out of luck. Games look fantastic as is but HDR can be iffy at times (I know this is more likely the way the game is designed than the 8 bit color).


----------



## Tanquen

nbean16 said:


> I have an rtx 3080 Ti Fe. I was just thinking the 10 bit may look better with the games that support HDR. The setup I have now is using 4k60hz, HDR, RGB full in nvidia control panel and 8 bit (I was hoping I could leave everything as is but be able to use RGB full with 10bit. As it is now 10 bit is only an option if I drop to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0). Just was thinking if the only limitation to getting 10 bit with these settings was the cable bandwidth, it may work. I know my card is 2.1 compliant but not the tv or receiver. Obviously if the hdmi chipset in the receiver and display just won't allow it then I'm out of luck. Games look fantastic as is but HDR can be iffy at times (I know this is more likely the way the game is designed than the 8 bit color).


I think you are all good with the settings you have. I don't think the 10-bit would look any different and I think it's the HDMI 2.0 limit of the AVR and TV.
You should be able to lower the res to 1080 and or the frame rate to 30Hz and have 4:4:4: chroma, HDR and 10-bit color, if you just want to see how it looks. I saw no difference but I do run my setup at 4k, 120Hz, 4:4:4 Chroma, HDR and 10-bit color. Because the LG 77C9 is full 48GBps, I can use the same max settings with 8 or 10 or 12-bit color but see no difference. I don't think the games are sending 10-bit color data (still se banding in some scenes) and even the desktop is not sending 12-bit. The display just ignores the empty 12-bit color data even if it was there as it's a 10-bit panel.


----------



## nbean16

Tanquen said:


> I think you are all good with the settings you have. I don't think the 10-bit would look any different and I think it's the HDMI 2.0 limit of the AVR and TV.
> You should be able to lower the res to 1080 and or the frame rate to 30Hz and have 4:4:4: chroma, HDR and 10-bit color, if you just want to see how it looks. I saw no difference but I do run my setup at 4k, 120Hz, 4:4:4 Chroma, HDR and 10-bit color. Because the LG 77C9 is full 48GBps, I can use the same max settings with 8 or 10 or 12-bit color but see no difference. I don't think the games are sending 10-bit color data (still se banding in some scenes) and even the desktop is not sending 12-bit. The display just ignores the empty 12-bit color data even if it was there as it's a 10-bit panel.


That is super helpful. Thank you for taking the time.


----------



## Ratman

If your TV/display is Samsung un55js8500 the supported resolutions are listed in the tables on pages 151, 160 and 164-166 of the manual.


----------



## compaddict

I need to be that guy and ask for advice without doing my homework..
I have a Yamaha RX-A840 receiver feeding a new Epson 5050UB 4K projector with a thirty foot (Monoprice seven year old) HDMI cable. 
Projector is pitching a fit even direct to my FireTV Cube with my old thirty footer. 
Here it comes.
What cable should I buy!?
Please and thanks!
Vince


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I need to be that guy and ask for advice without doing my homework..
> I have a Yamaha RX-A840 receiver feeding a new Epson 5050UB 4K projector with a thirty foot (Monoprice seven year old) HDMI cable.
> Projector is pitching a fit even direct to my FireTV Cube with my old thirty footer.
> Here it comes.
> What cable should I buy!?
> Please and thanks!
> Vince


So the FireTV Cube direct with a shorter cable is all good?
Do you care about HDMI 2.1 or anything greater than 4k, 60Hz?
My 25' 9 or 10 year old Monoprice was great until I want to do 4k, 120Hz, 4:4:4: chroma and 10-bit color.
If you only need HDMI 2.0 you should be able to find a regular cable that can do 18Gbps at 30'.
Otherwise I'd go with an active an active fiber cable like the ones I have from Cable Matters.








Amazon.com: [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics


Amazon.com: [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## gbynum

nbean16 said:


> Wasn't wanting to buy a $170 cable to test.


The way to test at low $$ is to buy a short, 5 or 6 feet, certified Ultra. Hook that up between your source and sink and try things. You should be able to get one for under $10.00. Here's one, but not in stock. https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-...X,B08YJP8MB4,B08GMC7C91&srpt=ELECTRONIC_CABLE


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> I need to be that guy and ask for advice without doing my homework..
> I have a Yamaha RX-A840 receiver feeding a new Epson 5050UB 4K projector with a thirty foot (Monoprice seven year old) HDMI cable.
> Projector is pitching a fit even direct to my FireTV Cube with my old thirty footer.
> Here it comes.
> What cable should I buy!?
> Please and thanks!
> Vince


If you want an ATC certified, hybrid fiber cable at that length look at Phoossno, Ruipro, or Cable Matters. Be mindful of how you install the cable and keep the bend radius to a minimum (even tho hybrid fiber cables have a fairly generous bend radius). Make sure you have easy access to your cabling for future pulls/replacement, etc. If in-wall, the use of a conduit, if possible, with a pull string, is highly recommended.

Testing with a shorter cable (under 10') is also a good idea.


----------



## compaddict

Thanks everyone! I don't have any short cables around the house but I think I do at my computer store.
I ordered the Cable Matters that was suggested too.


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> Thanks everyone! I don't have any short cables around the house but I think I do at my computer store.
> I ordered the Cable Matters that was suggested too.


If the Cable Matters doesn't meet your expectations, try the Phoossno or Ruipro certified cables. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% with all setups and devices so you may have try something else. At least you have options. All three cables have been tested with the newer, more common panels and GPUs.


----------



## compaddict

I tried one of my short HDMI interconnects and FireTV is happy.
My Yamaha RX-A840 is kind of older we will see if that works Friday.
Sweet and thanks for the recommends!
Vince


----------



## nbean16

gbynum said:


> The way to test at low $$ is to buy a short, 5 or 6 feet, certified Ultra. Hook that up between your source and sink and try things. You should be able to get one for under $10.00. Here's one, but not in stock. https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-Certified-Braided-Ultra-Speed/dp/B08X6X5FC3/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1GOC39X5J2VUQ&keywords=ultra+hdmi+cable+certified&qid=1636586441&qsid=142-7185099-8779051&s=electronics&sprefix=ultra+hdmi,aps,170&sr=1-4&sres=B07S1CGQ9Z,B08X6X5FC3,B08SLR3HW9,B075N83B9X,B08P5PPWRB,B07S1BNM7K,B0919GTQS9,B08MZYQ43S,B09373S127,B08KWC9TY4,B07WNM2NJ5,B07R8J9TK5,B07KGPVQB7,B088T32WTX,B08YJP8MB4,B08GMC7C91&srpt=ELECTRONIC_CABLE


Thats a good point.


----------



## compaddict

Another question..
Should I upgrade my three short interconnect HDMI cables too?
Please and thanks!
Vince


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I tried one of my short HDMI interconnects and FireTV is happy.
> My Yamaha RX-A840 is kind of older we will see if that works Friday.
> Sweet and thanks for the recommends!
> Vince


So that was FireTV > AVR > TV or just direct to TV?


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> Another question..
> Should I upgrade my three short interconnect HDMI cables too?
> Please and thanks!
> Vince


Probably wouldn't be a bad idea. That way you know that all of your connected devices at least work as expected with a shorter cable.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> Another question..
> Should I upgrade my three short interconnect HDMI cables too?
> Please and thanks!
> Vince


Don't worry about replacing the shorter cables unless you actually have a problem. Most cables of decent quality under 9’ or so aren't going to have a problem even with the latest 48 GBPS HDMI 2.1 signals. It's something to look into if you're having a problem. I had some 6” HDMI 2.0 pigtails that stopped my HDMI 2.1 cables from working. I got a different set and everything was okay.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks and companies that will try to take advantage of consumers and will gladly sell you a really expensive cable that's not going to do anything for you. Some companies will even sell you a 3’ active fiber cable for a bunch of money that's not going to do anything that a non-active 3’ cable wouldn't do. Some companies will even say that they're data cables will improve colors or sharpness or audio clarity. There's no way I know of for that to happen. Your mp3 file that's getting sent over a SATA cable in your computer isn't going to sound any better. If it's a gold-plated, SATA cable with super crazy rare metals or shielding and so on.

There's no 100% guarantee of anything in life, but I've had hundreds and hundreds of low voltage data cables over my life and they all (99.9%) work all the time and none of them need special codes or tweaks to work with the devices they're designed for. The data cables are, data cables that just need to pass data. Either the data packets get through the cable to the other end or the cable has poor shielding and/or terminations that add too much noise or too much signal loss for the data to be read on the other end.

The HDMI 2.1 spec is pushing things a bit going from 18 GBPS to 48 GBPS max and it's making things harder on the manufacturers/consumers then add the fact that most people won't actually use the full bandwidth. They can release a cable and they may not hear of any issues, but there's not that many people with HDMI 2.1 devices that are pushing the full bandwidth. That's no excuse for listing your cable meets a certain spec when you haven't even tested it. The subset of folks that want to use the full bandwidth and also have their TVs and PCs and or AVRs 30, 40, 50, 150 ft away from each other or making it even more difficult. You pretty much need an active cable so you've got more stuff going on and it's more likely that you could have an issue.

The last year or so with HDMI 2.1 is the worst experience I've had with a number of different brands that simply took their HDMI. 2.0 active cable, didn't test them, labed them HDMI 2.1 or 8k or 10k and hoped that they would work or even knew they wouldn't work and hoped that people would still buy them and not actually have an HDMI. 2.1 full 48Gbps data path until years later if ever.

So yeah, don't bend your cable if you can help it and don't yank on it from the middle of the cable, use the end to connect or disconnect and don't give it to the dog for a chew toy. If you own your home and you're building a home theater room, will never move anything and can run conduit, go for it. But it's no excuse or replacement for a cable that actually meets spec and don't fail after a few weeks or months.

Whatever the cable, if you have a difficult long run you should test the cable as long as you can before final install. I think the Cable Matters will work and I’d not recommend the Ruipro for HDMI 2.1, it is harder for you to test if you don’t have a data path that will use the full 40-48Gbps as that is where many of the cables will fail. They may be ok with older lower bandwidth HDMI 2.0 but fail when you want to try and use higher frame rate and or resolutions.

You can find more info online. I thought these were interesting. It's too bad that shipping is so expensive for regular folks, I'd get a tester and offer to test cables for like $10. Even cables with bad bad continuity can sort of work. I think there are a lot of bad, barely working cables out there.
youtube]u6lx1ntNoxE
youtube]XFbJD6RE4EY


----------



## compaddict

FireTV > AVR > TV.
And again, thanks everyone!


----------



## Ratman

Three short or one long. One "bad" cable will _potentially_ spoil the whole mess.
I agree with Otto.
(and... a couple 3'-6' passive cables won't necessarily be "expensive".)


----------



## compaddict

Good Amazon linky please !
Thanks again.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> _The last year or so with HDMI 2.1 is the worst experience I've had with a number of different brands that simply took their HDMI. 2.0 active cable, didn't test them, labed them HDMI 2.1 or 8k or 10k and hoped that they would work or even knew they wouldn't work and hoped that people would still buy them and not actually have an HDMI. 2.1 full 48Gbps data path until years later if ever._
> 
> That may have been true with some of the cheap Chinese knock-off cables (that Amazon carries from time to time) but I don't know of any major mfr doing that.
> 
> _So yeah, don't bend your cable if you can help it and don't yank on it from the middle of the cable, use the end to connect or disconnect_
> 
> To be clear, you are referring to actually connecting/disconnecting the connection and not pulling from the connector end during install?
> 
> _Whatever the cable, if you have a difficult long run you should test the cable as long as you can before final install. I think the Cable Matters will work and I’d not recommend the Ruipro for HDMI 2.1,_
> 
> You won't recommend Ruipro because you and some others had bad experiences. Cable Matters also has had some bad experience reports so any cable mfr can have issues. There haven't been any negative reviews that I have seen so far concerning the new UHS certified Ruipro cables, but that's why I give three recommendations for UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables now instead of cutting and pasting Amazon ads for a specific brand. That gives the poster more options to choose from in case they get a bad cable.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> Good Amazon linky please !
> Thanks again.


No reason to replace them if they are working. How long are they? If there are like 6' or less just wait until you actually have an issue. No reason to add to the e-waste.








Amazon.com: Cable Matters 3-Pack 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K HDMI Cable 6.6 ft / 2m with 8K @120Hz, 4K @240Hz and HDR Support for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More : Electronics


Amazon.com: Cable Matters 3-Pack 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K HDMI Cable 6.6 ft / 2m with 8K @120Hz, 4K @240Hz and HDR Support for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Ratman

These are certified:





Monoprice 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com


The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected] res



www.monoprice.com












Monoprice 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable - 3 Feet - Black | Certified Ultra High Speed, [email protected], 48Gbps, Compatible with Sony PS5 / PS5 Digital Edition / Microsoft


Read reviews and buy Monoprice 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable - 3 Feet - Black | Certified Ultra High Speed, [email protected], 48Gbps, Compatible with Sony PS5 / PS5 Digital Edition / Microsoft at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.




www.target.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> These are certified:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected] res
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable - 3 Feet - Black | Certified Ultra High Speed, [email protected], 48Gbps, Compatible with Sony PS5 / PS5 Digital Edition / Microsoft
> 
> 
> Read reviews and buy Monoprice 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable - 3 Feet - Black | Certified Ultra High Speed, [email protected], 48Gbps, Compatible with Sony PS5 / PS5 Digital Edition / Microsoft at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.target.com


Yep. If one is to purchase cables nowadays, then going with certified, for that extra little bit of confidence is the correct approach.

Who knows, maybe those 3' cables linked to in the other post are from someone who is just rebranding their HDMI 2.0 capable cables as HDMI 2.1 capable  .


----------



## Tanquen

Nope, continuing to use a perfectly good cable is the way to go. Don't add to the e-waste. Over many years like 2 or 3 out of how many ever data cables I have had were certified. It don't mean anything. Unless they are testing every cable they make before they ship.

Who knows, maybe he should get one of those $100 3' active fiber HDMI cables (don't, they will do nothing extra the $10 cable wont) from the manufacture that that guy keeps pushing. I heard it (don't worry, the cable works or it don't) will work with his RTX 3080 Ti but not a regular old RTX 3080 so be careful.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> _The last year or so with HDMI 2.1 is the worst experience I've had with a number of different brands that simply took their HDMI. 2.0 active cable, didn't test them, labed them HDMI 2.1 or 8k or 10k and hoped that they would work or even knew they wouldn't work and hoped that people would still buy them and not actually have an HDMI. 2.1 full 48Gbps data path until years later if ever._
> 
> That may have been true with some of the cheap Chinese knock-off cables (that Amazon carries from time to time) but I don't know of any major mfr doing that.
> 
> _So yeah, don't bend your cable if you can help it and don't yank on it from the middle of the cable, use the end to connect or disconnect_
> 
> To be clear, you are referring to actually connecting/disconnecting the connection and not pulling from the connector end during install?
> 
> _Whatever the cable, if you have a difficult long run you should test the cable as long as you can before final install. I think the Cable Matters will work and I’d not recommend the Ruipro for HDMI 2.1,_
> 
> You won't recommend Ruipro because you and some others had bad experiences. Cable Matters also has had some bad experience reports so any cable mfr can have issues. There haven't been any negative reviews that I have seen so far concerning the new UHS certified Ruipro cables, but that's why I give three recommendations for UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables now instead of cutting and pasting Amazon ads for a specific brand. That gives the poster more options to choose from in case they get a bad cable.


not true.


----------



## compaddict

New thirty foot cable and now I can see the FireTV from the new cable but not my receiver.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> not true.


To what?


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> New thirty foot cable and now I can see the FireTV from the new cable but not my receiver.


So:
You plug the FireTV directly into the receiver and then the receiver output through the new 30' cable to the TV and no picture?
You plug the FireTV directly into the TV through the 30' cable and you do get a picture?
With the receiver in the middle no picture?

How are you connecting the FireTV (Cube?) to the new cable. I have one that is just a little box and only has a male connection?


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> New thirty foot cable and now I can see the FireTV from the new cable but not my receiver.


Excellent. So 30' will be ok for your setup then?


----------



## compaddict

Yessir! New receiver time?
FireTV Cube


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> Yessir! New receiver time?
> FireTV Cube


New receiver? This can be a very expensive hobby  . I have two home theater systems, a "major" one and a "minor" one. Every time I mention upgrading a component, my wife just looks at me and puts her hands on her hips. Dangerous territory.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> Yessir! New receiver time?
> FireTV Cube


Ok, you had said Cube before but I forgot and not seen one in person.

It's too bad the receiver is not working. Is that only with the FireTV Cube?

In my setup the receiver is 4k HDMI 2.0 so no 120hz but it has eARC so the PC goes directly to the TV and the TV sends just the audio back to the receiver. Maybe you can hook the FireTV Cube to the TV and use ARC to get audio back to the receiver?


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> To what?


pick one


----------



## compaddict

I just ordered a Yamaha RX-A2A from the big A. Will report back!


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I just ordered a Yamaha RX-A2A from the big A. Will report back!


Wow, ok. Does it support full HDMI 2.1? May want to check and make sure it don't have the bad HDMI 2.1 chip, though that only effects 4k 120Hz I think.


----------



## compaddict

I think they promise a FW update for that?


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I think they promise a FW update for that?


I found a review that said something like that for the Yamaha RX-A2A but I know others with the Panisonic (I think) HDMI chip were saying the same and then they gave up and gave people some kind of external box to make it work. Just something to check. I'm sticking with the Denon X6500H until some cool with Drac Live comes around. I think it was Yamaha that said their very latest ARVs were all good for full HDMI 2.1.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> pick one


Seriously? Not gonna play these games with you again. It's a waste of space here. You pick one, if you want to continue but it would probably be best if you don't. I'm sure the other posters and mods would appreciate it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I found a review that said something like that for the Yamaha RX-A2A but I know others with the Panisonic (I think) HDMI chip were saying the same and then they gave up and gave people some kind of external box to make it work. Just something to check. I'm sticking with the Denon X6500H until some cool with Drac Live comes around. I think it was Yamaha that said their very latest ARVs were all good for full HDMI 2.1.


Panasonic Solutions (now known as Nuvoton Technology) admitted that their early HDMI 2.1 chipsets were not able to transfer video in the ultra-high resolutions on some devices without errors. The early release of Denon, Marantz, and Denon HDMI 2.1 receivers were affected. Denon came out with the "fix" for some of their receivers which was an external device. I'm not sure what Marantz and Yamaha did but the newest versions of all three appear to have overcome the issues with better made and qc'd HDMI 2.1 chipsets.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Seriously? Not gonna play these games with you again. It's a waste of space here. You pick one, if you want to continue but it would probably be best if you don't. I'm sure the other posters and mods would appreciate it.


There *you *go again. Sorry, I don't think you should be telling me why I won't recommend something. Seriously? I've told you many times why. How is it ok for you to keep telling me and others why I don't recommend them?

"Not gonna play these games with you again." After starting them, then offers to continue. Seriously?

"It's a waste of space here. " But you bring it up over and over. But that is ok? Everyone likes it when you do it? Seriously?

You talk about how it's ok to talk bad about a company and then get upset when people bring up facts about your favorite and ask the mods and others to come to your defense and stop the bad man that only picks on you and your favorite company. You even said something like I picked on everyone that liked that company. Was that at all true? Seriously? Talking about how everyone on the New Zealand AVS Forum is supper upset with what I did. Was that at all true? Seriously?

You keep bring up the same stuff and dance around it and adjust what you now say like I can't remember what you've said before.

Yes, I love going round and round about things like how using an HDMI extension works with an active cable after having already told you once before that I have and it works. Then you just walk away after putting in a little dig like "obviously" it should not work and so on.

You are the one the lies and bullies. You are the one that asks to close a thread and then keep picking on people in that thread and asks to ban or put a stop people and then joke about how you can say stuff and not get band.

If you want to apologies and walk through some of the issues, I'm game to come to some kind of understanding but I'm not going to lie and say things I don't think are ok, are ok.


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> I just ordered a Yamaha RX-A2A from the big A. Will report back!


The Aventage line of Yamaha receivers are very good. I have an A-780 that has served me very well for the last 3 years. Make sure that the A2A has been upgraded for the majority of the HDMI 2.1 options sets and HDMI 2.1 bug noted above has been fixed. I think they have but you might want to check with Yamaha to make sure.


----------



## compaddict

My RX-A840 has a very nice and quiet pre-amp that I enjoyed. And the thing I read about the new Yamaha stuff that will be a feature promise that will get added with new FW.


----------



## Ratman

@compaddict 
If you don't have any problems with your three short HDMI cables, there's no immediate need to buy new ones.
If you'd prefer to buy three new short HDMI cables proactively for peace of mind, go for it.
You have received a few recommendations to consider. Some may be good... some may be overly critical. 🤷‍♀️

I promise that I will not admonish you no matter what you chose to do or not do.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> My RX-A840 has a very nice and quiet pre-amp that I enjoyed. And the thing I read about the new Yamaha stuff that will be a feature promise that will get added with new FW.


Yeah, it's just something to check on. If you wait for the feature that is coming next you'll never get a new phone or piece of AV equipment but then if it's something you really want... I waited two years for an HDMI 2.1 OLED TV to replace my 10 year old Kuro. My now ancient LG C9 TV was to have the high frame rate black frame insertion but that did not happen and now they are adding Dolby Vision for games to the two newest set but not the 2+ year old one. 

The first HDMI 2.1 AVRs had a bad time this year. I ended up doing a workaround with the eARC that got me what I wanted. You could try it and see if it would work just out of curiosity but you have a projector and it may be difficult to out the FireTV Cube next to it. I was wanting to get a new HDMI 2.1 AVR but then the first ones had issues and most (all?) only have one full HDMI 2.1 input and then I read up on Dirac Live and how it's coming to cheaper AVRs. I want one with 10-11 powered channels. The search/wait continues.

You can get all the cables you want and I know it's exciting to get new hardware and add all the kit that goes with it but like I said the other day, the really short cables should be fine with HDMI 2.1 and if you run into an issue you'll know a little more about what to look for.


----------



## Ratman

compaddict said:


> I think they promise a FW update for that?








HDMI 2.1 board exchange of select 2020 AV Receivers with Certain Gaming, Video Devices (November 2021) - Yamaha USA







usa.yamaha.com


----------



## compaddict

Very cool!


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> Very cool!


So the RX-A2A needs a HDMI board swap to get full HDMI 2.1? It says starting in fall 2021 so an RX-A2A shipping now still will not have it? It says the newly released RX-A4A, RX-A6A and RX-A8A are unaffected by the pass-through issue, requiring only a future firmware update to enable certain HDMI 2.1 capabilities.

I guess that's ok if you don't think you'll even want to mess with 4k, 120Hz. I hate sending AVRs in for board replacements, always seem to end up with some scratches or marks. 
I had to send an Onkyo TX-NR3008 in for an HDMI board swap backing the day when they were dyeing left and right. I really did not want to do it but they sent me a new in box TX-NR3010, so that was nice.


----------



## Ratman

Looking at the brighter side of things, the poster has 24 months to get an upgrade whenever desired. It would be a shame to buy a new receiver today without a free upgrade only to wind up having to purchase a _another_ new AVR less than 24 months later.


----------



## Tanquen

Tanquen said:


> So the RX-A2A needs a HDMI board swap to get full HDMI 2.1? It says starting in fall 2021 so an RX-A2A shipping now still will not have it? It says the newly released RX-A4A, RX-A6A and RX-A8A are unaffected by the pass-through issue, requiring only a future firmware update to enable certain HDMI 2.1 capabilities.
> 
> I guess that's ok if you don't think you'll even want to mess with 4k, 120Hz. I hate sending AVRs in for board replacements, always seem to end up with some scratches or marks.
> I had to send an Onkyo TX-NR3008 in for an HDMI board swap backing the day when they were dyeing left and right. I really did not want to do it but they sent me a new in box TX-NR3010, so that was nice.


If you've already ordered the A2A, I guess it's too late, maybe the A4A has other things you might like along with not having to get the board swapped out?


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> If you've already ordered the A2A, I guess it's too late, maybe the A4A has other things you might like along with not having to get the board swapped out?


Did and done.
Can't anyone just be happy?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Did and done.
> Can't anyone just be happy?


The pursuit of perfection is an endless journey in frustrations, especially in the a/v world.


----------



## compaddict

I would have bought the A4A but nothing in stock!


----------



## Ratman

Should've bought an Onkyo.(JOKE)


compaddict said:


> I would have bought the A4A but nothing in stock!


It's okay... you have two years to get a free upgrade if/when necessary.
Who knows! Maybe they'll just replace with an A4A.
(and... hope that won't need an upgrade! )


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Should've bought an Onkyo.(JOKE)
> 
> It's okay... you have two years to get a free upgrade if/when necessary.
> Who knows! Maybe they'll just replace with an A4A.
> (and... hope that won't need an upgrade! )


ONKYO 😱! I've always suspected you were a twisted and demented person 😉.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Did and done.
> Can't anyone just be happy?


Don't know what you are on about. It's an option he has today.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I would have bought the A4A but nothing in stock!


I was afraid of that and had the thought latter. Lot of stuff is hard to come by these days.  At least you know and had a chance to see it was an option.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> ONKYO 😱! I've always suspected you were a twisted and demented person 😉.





Tanquen said:


> I had to send an Onkyo TX-NR3008 in for an HDMI board swap backing the day when they were dyeing left and right. I really did not want to do it but they sent me a new in box TX-NR3010, so that was nice.


LOL... yeah. Then they stopped "dyeing" them! 😢


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> I was afraid of that and had the thought latter. Lot of stuff is hard to come by these days.  At least you know and had a chance to see it was an option.


And a free upgrade path within 24 months.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> LOL... yeah. Then they stopped "dyeing" them! 😢


very helpful you two are the best as alwasy. thanks


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> And a free upgrade path within 24 months.


and like he said he looked to get the A4A but could not. i'd not wnat to send it in for a board swap i fI could help it. what is your propblem?


----------



## Ratman

We try. Sometimes it's tough separating the wheat from the chaff.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> what is your propblem?


Nothing. He will enjoy his new gear no matter one's differing opinion.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Nothing. He will enjoy his new gear no matter one's differing opinion.


It just options he gets to decide what's right for him. So why make fun of my inability to spell and ho hum comments about what can't people just be happy? So much for being helpful and not making a bunch of needles posts. Like no one can see what you are doing.


----------



## compaddict

Thanks!!


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> Thanks!!


You're welcome, let us know how it goes.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> It just options he gets to decide what's right for him. So why make fun of my inability to spell and ho hum comments about what can't people just be happy? So much for being helpful and not making a bunch of needles posts. Like no one can see what you are doing.


I think there has been some misinterpretation of comments so why don't we just let @compaddict filter out the information provided, decide what's useful to him and move on.


----------



## compaddict

We have picture!
The box the A2A had a yellow dot sticker if that means anything.


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> We have picture!
> The box the A2A had a yellow dot sticker if that means anything.


Yellow sticker? Refurb? Upgraded? Where did you get it?


----------



## compaddict

I have been reading so much stuff.. Don't quote me!
Could be upgraded? Amazon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

compaddict said:


> I have been reading so much stuff.. Don't quote me!
> Could be upgraded? Amazon.


If it's brand new, call Yamaha and ask or lookup the firmware version on the Yamaha site and see if there is any info there. You're under warranty so they should be able to tell you, or see if there is anything in the User Manual under Specifications.


----------



## Ratman

Best bet is to register your new AVR (as indicated in the link above) and contact Yammy support. They _should_ have records to match serial numbers to the product to confirm or deny whether the hardware update was performed on your specific unit.

My guess? Amazon probably slapped a yellow dot on the box for their own reason(s).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Best bet is to register your new AVR (as indicated in the link above) and contact Yammy support. They _should_ have records to match serial numbers to the product to confirm or deny whether the hardware update was performed on your specific unit.
> 
> My guess? Amazon probably slapped a yellow dot on the box for their own reason(s).


Yeah, it could be an inventory tag as well to mark the older merchandise. Amazon controls the inventory so they will either push the older items out first or randomly grab what ever is on the shelf. We see that all of the time with HDMI cables and mfr's with different versions of the same cable regardless of the product description. Amazon is not very quick at updating the product descriptions for some of the items they sell. A yellow sticker could also indicate a return item.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> A yellow sticker could also indicate a return item.


If you contact Yamaha and verify upgrade status, that's the important issue.
If you want to follow up on the "yellow dot" question/reason, contact Amazon.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I think there has been some misinterpretation of comments so why don't we just let @compaddict filter out the information provided, decide what's useful to him and move on.


No misinterpretation, It's pretty clear what's been said. And again, yes it's totally his decision. Just posting information. You guys keep inferring that somebody's trying to tell him what to do.


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> We have picture!
> The box the A2A had a yellow dot sticker if that means anything.


There was a question posted on the Amazon page but they didn't sound too sure. Just check with the Yamaha they should know.

Q: Are there yellow dots on the box bar code for these units? yamaha says this indicates no hdmi "bug."

So maybe the latest firmware but you're still going to need a board swap out?


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> You guys keep inferring that somebody's trying to tell him what to do.


What gives you that idea?


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> There was a question posted on the Amazon page but they didn't sound too sure. Just check with the Yamaha they should know.
> 
> Q: Are there yellow dots on the box bar code for these units? yamaha says this indicates no hdmi "bug."
> 
> So maybe the latest firmware but you're still going to need a board swap out?


Link?
What was the "A:"?

Yes. As suggested previously, contact Yamaha for verification.
Yes. Latest firmware does not indicate "hardware" upgrade(s) As suggested previously.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> What gives you that idea?


Multiple posts saying. Don't worry I won't tell you what to do and listen everybody. It's his decision. Let's just let him decide and so on.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> Let's just let him decide and so on.


Exactly. He did and now it's time to let the poster take the suggestions and follow up to satisfy everyone's curiosity. 🤪


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Link?
> What was the "A:"?
> 
> Yes. As suggested previously, contact Yamaha for verification.
> Yes. Latest firmware does not indicate "hardware" upgrade(s) As suggested previously.


Yes, as suggested previously, I can just tack that on to numerous replies. Sounds like it's bugging you? Don't let it bug you. Just let it happen.

Like I said it's best that he just contact Yamaha and find out. But there's some info out there indicating that the yellow sticker means some kind of new revision or ships with a new version of firmware or something. Just as he surmised.


----------



## Tanquen

[QUOTE="Ratman said:


> Exactly. He did and now it's time to let the poster take the suggestions and follow up to satisfy everyone's curiosity. 🤪


Yeah, that's what he did did. So why all the posts about come on guys, let's let him decide?


----------



## Ratman

Like it was stated before the response(s), contact Yamaha (posts 1620 and 1622).
I think we can read what's "bugging".


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Multiple posts saying. Don't worry I won't tell you what to do and listen everybody. It's his decision. Let's just let him decide and so on.


See your comment in post #1612 and my comment in post #1615.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Like it was stated before the response(s), contact Yamaha (posts 1620 and 1622).
> I think we can read what's "bugging".


You mentioned contacting Yamaha and so did I. Really sounds like that bothers you. Not sure why. You guys said the sticker might be from Amazon or whatever someone else said it's not or that it might not be. Is that the problem?


----------



## compaddict

I'm all good guys and not confused!
I will update when I know more about hardware/firmware updates.
Thanks!
Vince


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> See your comment in post #1612 and my comment in post #1615.


Yes, the 1615 post were you again. Say hey, let's just let him decide again. Implying that someone's trying to tell him what to do. ???

"so why don't we just let @compaddict filter out the information provided"

Who's not letting him?


----------



## Tanquen

compaddict said:


> I'm all good guys and not confused!
> I will update when I know more about hardware/firmware updates.
> Thanks!
> Vince


No worries Vince, I don't think anybody thought you were confused about anything. Sorry for all the extra posts. Let us know if Yamaha tells you what the yellow dot means for your particular receiver. Always curious about that kind of stuff.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> You mentioned contacting Yamaha and so did I. Really sounds like that bothers you. Not sure why.


Perhaps you missed my post before you posted. Redundancy can be bothersome.



> You guys said the sticker might be from Amazon or whatever someone else said it's not or that it might not be. Is that the problem?


No.
The poster states that he's fine and on board. Have a fun day! We're all good now.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> et us know if Yamaha tells you what the yellow dot means for your particular receiver.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Perhaps you missed my post before you posted. Redundancy can be bothersome.
> 
> No.
> The poster states that he's fine and on board. Have a fun day! We're all good now.


No, I saw that and added some other information. You two do that all the time often without extra information. I'm surprised to see you saying that it bothers you.

Yeah, the OP did already say he's fine and I'll let us know. You have a fun day too! You little scamp!


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> View attachment 3198025


Rude. Is that what you're doing when your
entering text for post or anything? You little scamp.


----------



## Ratman

I don't text. 
You apparently don't get the "three seashells" joke (Demolition Man movie) as it relates to the "yellow dot".


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vince will get back to us if he has an answer to the "yellow dot" mystery. Time to move on..... until next time the pot gets stirred 😉.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> I don't text.
> You apparently don't get the "three seashells" joke (Demolition Man movie) as it relates to the "yellow dot".


But all this is text. You mean you don't SMS text, like on a cell phone or a computer actually? Maybe you have a computer terminal in your bathroom, I don't know. You have to zoom out on that picture. Not everybody knows about and remembers the demolition Man movie. There's no way your picture could be a construed for anything else and there are no other pictures with shells. Everything you do is a-okay. Have a super fun day! Be sure to get plenty of fiber, you little scamp.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Vince will get back to us if he has an answer to the "yellow dot" mystery. Time to move on..... until next time the pot gets stirred 😉.


Yeah, I think he did say he would get back to us but I don't know the guy that well. Sometimes people just get busy and they forget once everything's working the way they want, it happens.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> You mean you don't SMS text, like on a cell phone or a computer actually?


Quite correct actually.


Tanquen said:


> Be sure to get plenty of fiber, you little scamp.


I'm "a-okay" with the fiber, you scamp.












https://y.yarn.co/5d60aeaf-3f1e-4a32-bf92-29cf7bab2742.mp4


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Quite correct actually.
> 
> I'm "a-okay" with the fiber, you scamp.
> 
> View attachment 3198069
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://y.yarn.co/5d60aeaf-3f1e-4a32-bf92-29cf7bab2742.mp4


Don't worry, I know what you were doing. Such a funny little scamp. Totally necessary and helpful as always, such a little scamp.


----------



## Otto Pylot

No sense of humor at all. As far as @Ratman being helpful, he has been more helpful than a lot of posters here, and has been doing so for a very long time. He just adds a little humor when the discussions, any discussions, get off track and childish.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> No sense of humor at all. As far as @Ratman being helpful, he has been more helpful than a lot of posters here, and has been doing so for a very long time. He just adds a little humor when the discussions, any discussions, get off track and childish.


That's not helpful though and not often what happens. You've made post in this thread that are not just adding a little humor. Digging on on someone and making fun, makes it worse not better. It's childish and gets the discussion off track. Dropping in the middle of thread with "train wreak" don't help and don't inform but is likely to upset someone. I post a little like you two for a bit and it's not long before "jokes", "Yes, Like I said" and "Redundancy can be bothersome." and part of my post with the pic of a bathroom and zero context. Who could misread that? You say I just post adds for Amazon and one brand and like a post or two later there's Ratmans Target add for one brand. 

Being here a long time don't make you perfect and it don't make this the Otto & Ratman forum and everything that you think is ok, ok. Someone mentions something you posted has wrong info and you get upset and its can't anyone make a mistake and so on. Here you both are again posting jabs at others high fiving each other and telling people it's ok when you do it. It's not. I take for ever to type a post and can't spell and you both enjoy bring that up and then its "No sense of humor at all." All I've ever done is try to be helpful and post about hardware I've actually bought, used, had experience with and whatever information I have to share.

Maybe you two can PM each other your great jokes and digs. You can make fun of may speeling.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> That's not helpful though and not often what happens. You've made post in this thread that are not just adding a little humor. Digging on on someone and making fun, makes it worse not better. It's childish and gets the discussion off track. Dropping in the middle of thread with "train wreak" don't help and don't inform but is likely to upset someone. I post a little like you two for a bit and it's not long before "jokes", "Yes, Like I said" and "Redundancy can be bothersome." and part of my post with the pic of a bathroom and zero context. Who could misread that? You say I just post adds for Amazon and one brand and like a post or two later there's Ratmans Target add for one brand.
> 
> Being here a long time don't make you perfect and it don't make this the Otto & Ratman forum and everything that you think is ok, ok. Someone mentions something you posted has wrong info and you get upset and its can't anyone make a mistake and so on. Here you both are again posting jabs at others high fiving each other and telling people it's ok when you do it. It's not. I take for ever to type a post and can't spell and you both enjoy bring that up and then its "No sense of humor at all." All I've ever done is try to be helpful and post about hardware I've actually bought, used, had experience with and whatever information I have to share.
> 
> Maybe you two can PM each other your great jokes and digs. You can make fun of may speeling.


There is no point in going toe to toe with you because you read what you want to read, totally misunderstand what is written, can't take a gentle joke that's been directed towards you (I've had lots of jokes made at my expense) and totally ignore the fact that both of us, have at times, liked a post of yours because you actually provided a thoughtful and helpful response to a question. And as far as us "enjoy bringing up your mis-spelling" that is just way off-base.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> ... and totally ignore the fact that both of us, have at times, liked a post of yours because you actually provided a thoughtful and helpful response to a question.


They must have been overlooked. 
Thank Otto.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> They must have been overlooked.
> Thank Otto.


I'm sure they were because they didn't fit the narrative.


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## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no point in going toe to toe with you because you read what you want to read, totally misunderstand what is written, can't take a gentle joke that's been directed towards you (I've had lots of jokes made at my expense) and totally ignore the fact that both of us, have at times, liked a post of yours because you actually provided a thoughtful and helpful response to a question. And as far as us "enjoy bringing up your mis-spelling" that is just way off-base.


"There is no point in going toe to toe with you because you read what you want to read"
I don't just read what I want. Its human nature and all that but that is totally you and to a much, much lesser degree Ratman. The last few pages is a nice little microcosm of you guys.
"can't take a gentle joke that's been directed towards you "
Just not true. Not helpful, don't keep the thread short and full of helpful info, not gentle and at the expense of others that have different experiences and opinions.
"totally ignore the fact that both of us, have at times, liked a post of yours because you actually provided a thoughtful and helpful response to a question."
Again, not true and another dig. Commenting on bad behavior is not totally ignoring everything you have ever done but it sounds good, like you are the victim of something. You both do post good info and I've said it before. If it's not in reaction to you and to a much, much, much lesser degree Ratman that is the only post I make. The one or two you guys liked are the only good ones then? Again you are not being truthful to make your case. Early on I defended you to someone that did not like that way you posted/treated them. So now I can do no wrong and you two are just out to get me?
"And as far as us "enjoy bringing up your mis-spelling" that is just way off-base. "
No, it's come up before and it's totally the kind of thing bullies do. How many times should anyone have to tell you they don't like something that most would not like and is not germane or necessary, before it's just you bullying and or you getting off on it? It's not way off base if it's happening to you. Just because you don't cuss someone out don't mean people can't see what you are doing. We did not say he's an idiot, we just gently imply it in a totally unneeded post, "LOL".
Just the last few pages here, "(JOKE)"s about people that can't spell, brands they have had, lots of unhelpful posts, you guys liked one of my posts that was actually helpful so you guys can't do anything wrong and so on.
Just because you two are on here all the time and like each others posts and back each other don't mean you are always right and can do no wrong.


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## Tanquen

> Otto Pylot said:
> ... and totally ignore the fact that both of us, have at times, liked a post of yours because you actually provided a thoughtful and helpful response to a question.


They must have been overlooked. 
Thank Otto.


Otto Pylot said:


> I'm sure they were because they didn't fit the narrative.


No, it's not even an augment for anything. You liked a post once, that is nice but it's not really meaningful to the issues we are talking about. I defended Otto once and have said a few times that you both post good info. ??? I don't agree with everything you guys do. PM each other your "(JOKE)"s.


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## Ratman

Let it rest.


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## ARROW-AV

*NOTE FROM OP:*

We have closed this thread and removed the report because this thread and our report is now 4 years old and is out of date. 

For an up to date cables thread see:









Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for HDMI 2.1


This is a quick and dirty list of the more common, certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. It is by no means complete so any corrections or additions are more than welcome. Hopefully it will help to narrow down the confusing mess of HDMI cables. Amazon and Monoprice cables were not...




www.avsforum.com


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## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> *NOTE FROM OP:*
> 
> We have closed this thread and removed the report because this thread and our report is now 4 years old and is out of date.
> 
> For an up to date cables thread see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for HDMI 2.1
> 
> 
> This is a quick and dirty list of the more common, certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. It is by no means complete so any corrections or additions are more than welcome. Hopefully it will help to narrow down the confusing mess of HDMI cables. Amazon and Monoprice cables were not...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Thanks @ARROW-AV . Your initial contributions and time were greatly appreciated by everyone. Please feel free to contribute to the thread whenever you want to.


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## DrDon

Closed at the request of the OP.


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