# One thread for Niro, Mainstage, Zvox, Bose 3-2-1--one box sound?



## Hoppy

OK, I don't like the title either, but don't we need one thread that covers all the single or dual speaker solutions to surround sound? I know very little about it, just start researching a few days ago, but there are several people who are both knowledgeable and interested, and I'm saying it would be a good thing if there were one thread where all info about this kind of sound solution could be accumulated.


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## dc_pilgrim

Next post has the list.


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## dc_pilgrim

Here are the systems I have seen mentioned on threads, there may be others:


- *KEF KIT100 Instant Theatre* -(2.1)- MSRP 1499 - http://www.kit100.com/ 
CNET Review 


-*Yamaha YSP Series* -(1.0 get a sub for 1.1)- MSRP (?) 1299 - 799 http://www.yamaha.com/yec/ 
Long Audioholics Review 
Long Thread in Speakers Section 
CNET Review - YSP-1 
CNET Review YSP-800 

the YSP-3000 - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...66&VNM=WORKING 

the YSP-4000 - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...00&VNM=WORKING 


-*Bose 3-2-1* -(2.1?)- MSRP $1299 - www.bose.com 


-*Klipsch CS-700* - (2.1 w/wireless sub) MSRP 1300? (Thanks OJGSarge)
http://www.klipsch.com/news-center/p...ons-award.aspx 


-*Denon S101/S301* -(2.1)- MSRP 999 & 1499 Link (Thanks Kipa)
Thread 
Audioholocs Review 


-*Sony DAV-X1* -(2.1)- MSRP 999 Link 
Thread - a little combative 

-*Polk Surroundbar* -(1.0 + sub+ receiver)- MSRP 949
Link 


-*Cambridge SoundWorks SurroundWorks 200* -(1.1)- MSRP 999
Product Link 
Review 


-*M&K MP 4512* -(1.1+receiver)- MSRP $650 - http://www.mksound.com/mp4512_pf.htm 
CNET Review 


-*Niro 400/600/1.1Pro II/Reference/Two6.1/Two6.1-C* -(1.1)- MSRP $539 to $1999 - http://www.niro1.com/en/ 
CNET Review 
Review (600) 

new 2007 Niro lineup Model #'s are: 420/620/800/1000 priced at $695/995/1195/1595 respectively.

*Altec Lansing PT7031/8051* MSRP $600-ish - (thanks gdseeker)
User's review 
PT7031 
PT8051 

*Philips HTS8100* -(1.0) MSRP ??? (Thanks Regularguy)
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-2...tem-213478.php 


-*Philips HTS6600* -(2.1) MSRP 599 (Thanks Regularguy)
IHT/NY Times article 
*Philips Soundbar HTS8100* - Thread 1 Thread 2 - Review by Davyo (thanks) 

*Panasonic SC-PTX7* - (2.1 + 80 GB drive) MSRP of $799.95
Audioholics Article 


-*Samsung HT-X200* -(2.1)- MSRP $500 (?) HDMI Out/upconverting DVD
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...cd=HT-X200/XAA 
A Thread on the old model 


-*JVC EX-A1* -(2.1)- MSRP ? $450 - www.jvc.com (Thanks Hoppy)
CNET Review 


-*Sharp SD-SP10* -(1.1)- MSRP $399 (thanks Chauncey)

Dolby Virtual Speaker Device w/"Audistry" options (whatever those are)
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod...8,1738,00.html 
CNET Review 


-*Binaura B102AC* -(1.1)- MSRP 399? http://www.binaura.com/products/products.htm 
A thread 


-*Sherwood VR600, VR670, VR 700* -(2.1)- MSRP 249 - 599
http://www.sherwoodusa.com/am_cat_hts.html 


-*Soundmatters Mainstage/Mainstage HD/Fullstage* -(1.0/1.1)- MSRP $199 - $599 - www.soundmatters.com 
Review 
Review 
Review 
AVS Member Pinkoos Review 


-*ZVox 315* -(1.0 or +sub)- MSRP $199 - http://www.zvoxaudio.com/ 
CNET Review 


In the alternative, you could get a receiver that supports Dolby Virtual Speaker (DVS), and add a pair of speakers + a sub of your choice.


*Receivers w/ DVS*


-*Kenwood VRS-7200*

-*Harmon Kardon AVRs* - almost their entire line of surround receivers after a certain vintage, I think the x35 series (not the stereo receivers though)

-*Denon* seen some mention that some denon receivers have DVS. No further details.

*Updates*

*EDIT 8/13/05- I ordered the Binaura. The price was right (got it on sale).

EDIT 1/11/06 - added Polk Surroundbar. Needs a receiver + sub, like the M&K.

EDIT 2/6/06 - added cnet review of ysp-800.

EDIT 4/2/06 - Added somethings on the option to go with a receiver and separate speakers/sub(s). *I'd strongly consider going this way*, as you get a lot more inputs and the upgrade path is better. (unless you want/need 1.1 not 2.1, like me)

EDIT 5/17/06 - added the Samsung.

EDIT 7/18/06 - having problems with the Binaura. Faulty electronics.

EDIT 7/28/06 - received the YSP-800. Will review later in this thread once its been tried. Added Sharp product.

EDIT 12/12/06 - - added the Philips HTS devices. Thanks Regularguy. Added another link for the Sharp

EDIT 2/7/07 - Added the Klipsch

EDIT 6/26/07 - Added Panasonic, newer Philips, Altec Lansing (sorry no link) - - I am not really following these devices anymore - - feel free to PM me if you want me to add something to the list, or I check in occasionally and may do a few updates here and there.


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## Hoppy

I add this to dc_pilgrim's great and useful post (props to you)--

http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-6740_7-....html?tag=also 


This is a JVC mini stereo that can be used for movies. Probably not very "surround," but interesting that it's in the same cnet roundup as the others.


As it happens, I already own the predecessor of this mini system, the JVC7000 which used to be called an "executive" stereo. THe interesting thing is that the speakers, if they are indeed the same ones, and they look like spitting images, are really quite wonderful sounding, a little too loose in the bass but full in the middle with great highs. After I saw them on here I plugged my JVC 7000 into my DVD and watched "Garden State"--sounded pretty good to me.


I should add that I now notice that this JVC is a DVD player as well (mine is an audio system, CD only, plus tuner, etc.). Don't have a clue as the quality of the DVD. Says it's progressive scan etc. Component outs.



Hopps


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## Hoppy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dc_pilgrim_
> *Hope this helps. I plan to buy the Mainstage HD when it is released (April 05), and will post a review when I get it.*



dcp--


Can you give us some indication on why you settled on the Mainstage from this set of alternatives? I like the way it looks, but have no clue as to sound. The Niro has a good return policy but is maybe twice as expensive.


Only the Mainstage and ZVox really are easy on the budget. I don't want to pay $1300 if I don't have to.


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## dc_pilgrim

Happy to elaborate. Its strictly a budget / requirements perspective. I am planning to outfit a den (14 x 20 x 14) with high ceilings. I am going to get the flagship Sony direct view tv (KD-34XBR960) which is taking up most of my budget. So I am really only looking at Soundmatters and the Zvox, plus a budget sub. We may do something more elaborate with the audio when we finish the basement in the next year or two.


The den adjoins the kitchen and is our primary living and entertainment space. Thus, I want the machine to be able to play music - either streamed in via an apple airport express (or similar) or maybe via HTPC.


So, my concern with the Zvox is it has only two mini-jack inputs, and it would use one to connect to the sub (can't argue with the price though). This would mean I'd have to run the music through the tv which I don't really want to do. The Mainstage (&HD) has four inputs (composite audio, minijack, toslink and digital coax), and a dedicated port for the sub.


I read the Cnet review which indicated the Zvox sounds better than the original mainstage. But it seemed to me that at least a part of the rational was that the Zvox was the more powerful unit. Presumably the Mainstage HD which is basically, in theory going to be a louder Mainstage will answer that concern. Also, on the original Mainstage faq, it only recomends the machine for rooms that are about 1800 cubic sq ft. My ceilings are high (albeit sloping), so I was hoping that the more powerful HD version might address that concern.


There were a few nitpicks in the original Mainstage reviews which probably would have bothered me - the blinking standby light, and the inabilty to tell if it is in "surround" or stereo mode. I understand these are being addressed in the next version. I'll let you know when I get one. I started looking at this in December, it was then expected for the 1st of the year. It was delayed to "early spring". I sent a message to complain, was told they delayed to slightly tweak the features and the remote, and it would be "worth the wait". I was given a best guess of no later than April 15th. In a subsequent PR e-mail I was given hope that it might be April 1st. We'll see. I upped the budget for the HD. If it doesn't sound good, I may return it and start to look at the low end Niro's.


But this is my rationale and the parameters I am working in. Hope it helps. If budget were no object, I'd get that yamaha.


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## dc_pilgrim

Added a couple of links yamaha links to my summary post. Will add Hopps JVC find to the list as well later.


After writing all that out, I am giving myself some second thoughts. My concern is tied to inputs. The tv I want will take two (one optical and one analog - bad design IMHO but ever tech has trade offs). I would want to be able hook up a few other devices -- ps2; a streaming music device; dvd player; maybe a dvr. Not all of these necessarily need an optical input, and I could get a switch or splitter. But it has me thinking about devices with more optical inputs. Maybe the Zvox has it right after all.


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## Hoppy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dc_pilgrim_
> *Added a couple of links yamaha links to my summary post. Will add Hopps JVC find to the list as well later.
> 
> 
> After writing all that out, I am giving myself some second thoughts. My concern is tied to inputs. The tv I want will take two (one optical and one analog - bad design IMHO but ever tech has trade offs). I would want to be able hook up a few other devices -- ps2; a streaming music device; dvd player; maybe a dvr. Not all of these necessarily need an optical input, and I could get a switch or splitter. But it has me thinking about devices with more optical inputs. Maybe the Zvox has it right after all.*



Just to be clear on the Zvox--I am not carrying the torch for this unit, I just wondered what your thinking was. For the present I'm using the TV (34XBR800 that I PM'd you about) or the JVC system that seems to work pretty well with my new Infocus 4805 projector.


All best--


Hopps


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## dc_pilgrim

Well the Zvox only uses a mini-jack (presumably stereo) input. Which means it doesn't bother with anything optical. So a simple splitter would cure some of the input deficiencies, and I could just plug all my toys into the tv (except maybe music) and have it pass the audio to the Zvox. The Zvox would do whatever it does - - which might not be as "tricky" as some of the other systems (sound algorythms, dolby, etc) - but reportedly still sounds pretty okay.


Sometimes simpler is better.


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## mrrippey

I think I may check out the ZVOX. It is simple and hopefully sound good. I am going to connect cable box (CableVision HD / NJ) and DVD player (something progressive and decent) to the TV (Syntax 32") and then send the signal to the ZVOX. Simple and I guess should work well and will allow me to use the other input for the sub (out of TV to Input 1 / Sub for Input 2)


I guess I will need a mini to RCA to connect a sub? Does anyone know?


Rippey


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## dc_pilgrim

Good deal. Let us know how it works out.


Based on their website -


Two connecting cords supplied: 1) Mini-jack stereo to mini-jack stereo (for use portable CD players, clock radios, PCs...anything with a headphone jack). 2) Mini-jack stereo to twin RCA jacks


- - I have often heard that people connect their subs with a single RCA. Maybe the mini-jack cord would work - - otherwise you might have a trip to radio shack. I'd ask their customer service.


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## joe1347

Just listened to the ZVOX at Best Buy. Possibly the source material or the store configuration was at fault - but I thought that the ZVOX sounded a little weak - especially for the bass. Also, I fooled around with the Phase Cue and didn't notice much effect.


I'm currently thinking that the Onkyo 770 HTIB is the better bet for about $200 more. Just have to deal with the additional clutter that I avoided with the ZVOX!


Any thoughts?


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## dc_pilgrim

Everything I have read indicates these devices are almost all inferior to any system where you run the wires and place the speakers. No arguement there.


In terms of the Zvox - you can use it with a sub if you wish. True for many of these devices.


Where was the BB that you were able to demo it? I heard it was available in certain regions at BB but never heard where specifically. I'd love to hear one sometime.


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## dc_pilgrim

I have updated the list above (post #3) to include the Cambridge Surroundworks which I just noticed. Also, in the past few months I had added the Binura and the Sony products as well. There are a ton of these products coming out for people with high WAF / space considerations.


Standard disclaimer - none will be better than a wired system with 5+ speakers.


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## Kipa

I have been in the market for a "high end" HTIB for a couple months now. I've almost pulled the trigger a couple times, but it seems that everytime I get ready, I hear about a new, better unit being produced. Right now, the top of my list is the KEF KIT100. Fantastic sound - a big improvement in stereo playback over my current NIRO 1.1 Pro, which is a great unit for movies (no complaints at all), but who's stereo playback leaves a lot to be desired.


Anyway, I just happened upon Denon's 2 new high end HTIB packages. Check out the link below. I haven't found a place to hear them yet, but the specs look very good. Denon's speakers, while not audiophile grade continue to improve with every iteration. If the speakers turn out to be good, these units offer a lot.


See link in below post (have to get to 5 entries before I can post the link).


Kipa


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## Kipa

Bump - Post #4


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## Kipa

Bump post #5.


Kipa


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## Kipa

Here's the link to the new Denon S 101 and S301 units.


Kipa

http://blog.denon.com/s301_101/archi...ease.html#more


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## dc_pilgrim

Finally bought something. I went to Cambridge Soundworks retail store by me. Listened to their surroundworks. I liked it but wasn't sure about the $1k price. It says its sound processor is from Binaura. So I took another look at that, and noticed it was on sale from the .com arm of a large blue and yellow electronics retailer (part of their wednesday sale, and now sold out). So I bought it. Should be here in a week or so.


The footprint is very similar to the Cambridge product - although much less powerful, and no dvd player (which I didn't need). All I am looking for is something to clean up the dialog from my lowly 27" tv, and add a little thump. The price was right. If I don't like it I am only out the shipping.


I'll post a detailed review when I get a chance to test it out.


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## Bert




> Quote:
> a big improvement in stereo playback over my current NIRO 1.1 Pro, which is a great unit for movies (no complaints at all), but who's stereo playback leaves a lot to be desired.



Just wondering if you had a chance to audition NIRO's Reference system; I just got this as a secondary home theater for my den, and it just blew me away. I had my doubts about re-creating 5.1 with essentially smoke and mirrors, but the technology is definitely there, and the crispness of the sound really impressed me. I kind of prefer that "transparent and clear" type of sound to the "bright and boomy" type anyway, so this was perfect for me.


It's their top of the line at $1000+ and no DVD player, but I think it's worth every penny; it _sounds_ high-end. Lucky thing I had an older DVD player already connected to the TV. The only use it was getting was my wife's exercise DVDs.


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## vanelo

Hey, what about the M&K MP-4512 ?


Howimportant is to have HDMI connection in my home theater.? I recently bought a Panasonic 42 PX50U , which has HDMI connection so I want to make sure I get the best from my TV. For my apartment, the only system that "fits" is a 2.1 or 1.1, so basically a system with true rear speakers is out of the picture.


I appreciate any help!


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## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Hey, what about the M&K MP-4512 ?



What about it? There is a link to a review in post #3. If memory serves, its a single box with multiple speakers in it, that needs a receiver to drive it. Haven't seen anyone really talk about it. Might be a good fit for someone who already has a receiver.


What's your budget?


From what I have seen - the KEF gets the most kudos for a pure audio/musical perspective - the yamaha has the most advanced wizardry (when paired with a sub), the Niro is a solid performer.


The rest are more price competitive, with respective tradeoffs. I bought the binaura. It was pricing that sealed it. I'll review it next weekend when I get home.



> Quote:
> Howimportant is to have HDMI connection



Some future proofing in it. I'd say its very important for a display device to have a HDCP compliant connection (either HDMI of a compliant variation of DVI) if you want to use BR or HD-DVD media. I think any audio digital input is fine for a receiver (Toslink or dig. coax), unless you want it to do video switching.


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## vanelo

Budget is important right now. It it were for me, I would have bought the DENON S-301, since the specifications seem to suit me. But, I am trying to spend less than $1000.


Thanks for answering so soon. I'll list my needs so anyone interested can help me in my decision:


1) 1 or 2 speaker system + Subwoofer

2) HDMI output

3) Medium to excellent sound quality

4) May or may not include DVD and/or Receiver


So, lets all forget about budget for a moment and if there are any products that meets my list please feel free to post them!!


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## dc_pilgrim

#2 is the tricky one. I think you pointed out on this thread or another, that the Sony has HDMI. I can't think of another one. But there are tons of these coming out, might be good to wait a few weeks until after CEDIA (early September).


You might get there with that M&K paired with a receiver & sub. I am not sure what the price points are for receivers to have HDMI ports.


Take #2 out, and the higher end Niro line looks compelling for you at your price point.


For #3 - what is your movies to music %'s? (if its 90/10 movies, the yamaha is available at solid discounts from msrp - close to your budget, I'd grab that and the dayton sub)


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## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Finally bought something. I went to Cambridge Soundworks retail store by me. Listened to their surroundworks. I liked it but wasn't sure about the $1k price. It says its sound processor is from Binaura. So I took another look at that, and noticed it was on sale from the .com arm of a large blue and yellow electronics retailer (part of their wednesday sale, and now sold out). So I bought it. Should be here in a week or so.



I've mentioned this over in the Binaura thread, but I thought I would jump in here and discuss it as well.


I currently own the ZVOX Audio 315 Sound Console coupled with an external Yamaha sub and have been please with the system. However, I have a 15x15x8 room and am pushing the ZVOX's three main speakers to their limit on DD5.1 sourced films.


In any event, I also went ahead and purchased the same system you did - the Bianura. I'm hoping it is a bit more powerful than the ZVOX setup. I plan on evaluating both. I'll report back here with my findings.


That being said, I would still recommend the ZVOX. It is easy to use, unique, and sounds very good considering the price.


For those that are interested, I have a brief guide to setting up the ZVOX 315 using a SPL meter on my website 



Mark


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## dc_pilgrim

*Unpacking*


Well, the Binaura arrived last week while I was away. Came in a good size box, and UPS didn't treat it too bad. Inside the box, it was packaged very intelligently. Everything was secure and had a slot in the styrofoam. There is a large quick set up guide on a piece of posterboard that is the size of the top of the box. Its in full color, ans shows the setup in 3 easy steps.


The unit consists of one speaker with three drivers, plus a subwoofer which has the controller unit in it, and all the ports.


The nice thing about it is that everything is labeled, including all the major wires. In the box there are all the unit specific cables (power, speaker wire) plus an composite RCA pair, plus an audio coaxial. In addition to the wires there is a remote infrared sensor incase (like my set up) the subwoofer unit is hidden away. I wouldn't have bought the product without that.


In addition to these items, there was hardware to wall mount the speaker unit if you so desire.


On the back of the subwoofer unit there are two digital coax ports, a digital toslink port, and at least one RCA port (can't remember if there are two). The unit will decode DTS and Dolby (Digital and Pro-Logic - - I think). DTS was nice, as the Mainstage which I had strongly considered doesn't do that.

*The environs*


We set thus up in our den. It is a 14 x 20 room, with the back open in to the kitchen. The ceiling is vaulted from 9 feet to approximately 14 feet. So the cubic feet is huge. The (glamorous 27") TV is in a corner placement on a tv stand (not an armoire) which is katty-cornered (sp?). With a baby on the way, and since this is a high traffic / high profile location in the house it was essential that anything place in this room be unobtrosive. The speaker unit is roughly 14"x6"x5" (LxWxH) and doesn't look out of place on the tv. There are little rubber feet that can be attached (they nicely sent 5, incase you lose one) - but we haven't bothered to attached them yet. We placed the subwoofer unit behind the tv and snaked the remote sensor into our tv stand where it sits unobtrusively. The subwoofer unit looks like a desktop PC tower (a whisper thinner). It has a volume knob on it, and a small display. I can't see any of those anymore, so can't comment much more on that.

*How does it sound*


My expectations here are pretty minimal and I don't have golden ears. I wanted something that would add a little thump to the movies. We had also had situations where we had been pushing up the volume while watching a movie to hear the dialog better. One of the things that was appealing was that the remote had a general volume control, a bass level control, and center channel control. This is pretty nice, and it worked well in the testing. While I am talking about the remote, its pretty simple device. The three types of volume controls, a mute button, a stereo mode button, power (standby) and three mode buttons that are quick to the sources.


With those expectations, I can say it performs pretty well. The subwoofer isn't a powerhouse, but it can pack a bit of a punch. I used the LFE Demo disc that had been circulating on the builder threads, and could definitely get some level of impact when watching various scenes from Master & Commander, Jurasic Park, and Nemo.


I was curious how the surround elements would perform. I'd say its closer to 3.1 than 5.1. Might work better in a less open layout. I watched Blackhawk Down (Superbit), and could definitely track the sound when a chopper moved from the right side of the screen to the left. But nothing sounded particularly like it came from behind us. I had, years ago, seen BHD at a friends place, and I remembered the sound of the blades having more of an encircling sound. Wasn't the case with the Binaura.


I haven't really cranked it too much, but while my wife was out of the house I turned it up louder than I'd like it to be, and it didn't distort too bad. Haven't tried it with music yet, though I liked the bass I could hear in BHD when Elvis's "suspicious minds" was played in the background.

*Conclusion*

Well, it helped that we got this on sale. It is no substitute for a proper, 5 speaker set up. But it is definitely better than nothing, and due to the heavy WAF requirements, it performs pretty well. Given the cubic feet, the layout and the open floorplan, I don't know that spending more would be a worthwhile investment. Besides, the plan is to save cash for eventually finishing the basement where a proper system can be put in. So, for the price, I am happy. Not for everyone, but a decent niche solution.

*Postscript* - - my unit flaked out after just under a year. Other people have noted other problems with the dolby implimentation. Read this thread and the other one noted in post #3.


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## mczolton

Thanks for the review. I should receive mine this week. I plan on comparing it to the ZVOX Audio 315 Sound Console with and external sub.


BTW, my experience with the ZVOX would suggest that a single unit surround console's performance is pretty much on par with yours (for this price point of course).


Could you answer a question for me though? I noticed that the Binarua manual sates that the settings for bass and center gain will be set back to default when the TV input is selected. Is this true and did you find yourself adjsuting the bass/center gain frequently? I ask because I am sure my wife will not want to mess around with such things simply to watch teevee











Thanks,

Mark


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## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Could you answer a question for me though? I noticed that the Binarua manual sates that the settings for bass and center gain will be set back to default when the TV input is selected. Is this true and did you find yourself adjsuting the bass/center gain frequently? I ask because I am sure my wife will not want to mess around with such things simply to watch teevee




Sorry, not sure, haven't used the tv setting yet. Our current tv doesn't have audio out - so I will be using this for dvd, ps2, and maybe some digital audio (eventually). We don't even have a cable box at this point. We'll eventually upgrade the tv, and will look for audio out at that point. Since I have only used it twice, I have tinkered with the center and bass settings each time. Eventually I'd rather be able to set it and forget it. That said, if it defaults to standard settings they aren't too bad. I was definitely upping the bass, but that was probably more because it was a new toy than a scientific approach.


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## mczolton

I'll typically try to set the bass and speaker console to 75dB respectively using a SPL meter. I am hoping that once I adjust this, I won't have to tinker with it again.


Mark


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## mczolton

Dave,


How are you liking the Binaura? I just received mine today and wil set it up tomorrow evening.


I must admit, the construction is quite nice for the price we paid. I wasn't expecting it to be as sturdy as it seems to be. It looks quite nice as well.


Mark


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## dc_pilgrim

So far so good. Since we mostly use it for movies, I haven't used it since the review (damn home improvement). I am hoping to bring a few CD's down to the DVD player and test out the music performance soon.


I know what you mean. Probably should add a bit to discuss the build quality a little more. The speaker wire between the sub & the speakers is very meaty. Looks impressive. Everything seems pretty tight and solid. This is why I added the unpacking section. I was just trying to convey the quality and thoughtfulness I was seeing. I was shocked for the price. There is even a seperate cardboard box for accessories - - and they printed "accessories" on it. I don't know why, but I saved it. Its a small touch, but a nice one.


I think the issue is, we got it at a solid discount from MSRP due to BB's Wednesday sale.


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## vanelo

Do any of you guys think the Denon S301 will get cheaper anytime soon? I think thats the system Ive finally chosen but am not willing to spend that amount of money on a 2.1 system.


Would it be really worth it?


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## mczolton

I can't say I would spend that much on a 2.1 system. Although, I'm sure it depends on your budget and application. That being said, I have always been happy with Denon products in the past. From what I've seen, they don't fluctuate too much in price. I know their DVD players just went up a few months back.


Mark


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## mczolton

I've decided to keep the Binaura instead of the ZVOX Audio 315. While I still feel the ZVOX is a solid performer, especially at the MSRP, the Binaura better suits my needs. The Binaura is more capable given the size of my bedroom and my distance from the unit. The surround field also feels larger given the placement of the left and right speakers. I am also attracted to the fact that I can individually tailor the gain on the bass and center channel.


That being said, there are a couple of improvements I would make. First, I wish the Binaura would not conflict with my Tivo remote. It seems that the Binaura will repeat the last command sent to it for volume, center channel gain, and bass gain whenever any button on the Tivo remote is pushed. I have spoken with the very helpful folks at Binaura and they have informed me they are working on a solution.


Secondly, I would prefer more discrete remote commands for switching directly to a given input. While you have the option of switching directly to the TV or DVD input, you cannot switch directly to the VCR, Optical, or Coaxial input. The TV input also resets the Binaura to factory defaults. Having discrete codes for each input would make macros easier.


Third, the fact that the "TV" button resets the device is a double edged sword. It is a nice feature if I want the Binaura to reset when I activate it (possibly using a remote macro). However, I would like the ability to configure the device without having to worry that it will accidentally be reset. I would prefer to reset the device by powering down the unit (note, this is different than standby mode).


Finally, it would be nice to have shielding on the subwoofer/amplifier unit.


Other than those minor complaints, the Binaura is another excellent choice at this price point. Please do not rule out the ZVOX. At quite a bit less MSRP (depending on where and you purchase it), the ZVOX would be great for a smaller room or if you sit closer to your display.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Mark, glad the Binuara has been mostly pleasing. Keep us posted on the TIVO fix. Don't have this device right now, but you never know. Either way, a strange result.


I think your suggestions for improvement are pretty solid. The only thing that has bothered me so far is my own fault. Since the subwoofer unit is behind my tv stand I can't see the integrated display, and sometimes wonder what the volume or source is set at. In my install it would be perfect to feed that as an overlay on the screen. But that would require a video out, which is probably overkill at this price point.


Been a nifty upgrade over my existing tv speakers for movie watching so far. I am starting to prioritize getting an mp3 player or streaming device to use it for music a bit more.


----------



## madadam

I have a zvox in my bedroom for sound through my portable mp3 player. I have also used it a few times with a projector/dvd player. The sound is pretty good for a small room, although the sweet spot for surround is pretty small - you better be front/center and not too far away. For music it sounds much better than many of the computer speakers available in that price range (bought for 100 on sale at best buy). But you do have to be willing to adjust the surround processing ('phasecue' in their terminology) for different recordings. The sound field can be nice using high phasecue, but vocals in particular may get lost/tinny - really depends on the recording! Also easy to install in small spaces... all in all I've been pretty happy with it.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only thing that has bothered me so far is my own fault. Since the subwoofer unit is behind my tv stand I can't see the integrated display, and sometimes wonder what the volume or source is set at.



I also have my sub behind the teevee so I can't really see it. I've solved this by setting the unit to its default when you power it on via a remote macro. The macro also adjust the bass and center to my liking and then powers everything else on. It works fairly well. I've been using "Bianura Vocal" for television viewing and Dolby Digital/DTS for DVDs. I do find that the "Binaura Vocal" setting can be a little boomy at time (even if the sub is turned down). I suspect that this has more to do with the particular channel than the unit itself though. I also tend to use Dolby Pro Logic for Tivo recorded movies.


On a side note, I have a silver ZVOX 315 to sell if anyone is interested. PM me if you are.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## nurstnicholas

Hi

I am trying to decide between some 2.1 HTIB systems, to replace a "proper" Amp/CD/DVD/Speakers seperates package, for aesthetic reasons.

It will be used both for music and telly.

Most of the systems I have seen to date in the UK are relatively new to our market (except for the Kef), especially the Sony and Denon, so I wondered if any of you had any experience of them please?

Whatever I choose, the HTIB and TV will have to be fitted into a rectangular room's corner, with the viewing position up against the opposite wall at the same end of the room (with the sofa up against the opposite wall, with no space behind it) - I know not whether this affects the way that sound is bounced back off side walls, for the simulated surround?

The systems I have seen references to, are:

Kef KIT 100

Sony DAV-X1

Denon S101

Bose 321 gs

All helpful comments, links to reviews and listeners' experiences will be appreciated.

Regards


----------



## Bert

Nurstnicholas;


Seems like no one replied to your request for suggestions, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. How about the Niro systems?


I'm not an expert, but I use KEF's in my primary HT where everything is a separate. I got a Niro Reference system about a month ago for my smaller den set-up, and the Niro has the closest sound to my KEF's that I've ever heard in any audio system. And that includes when I listen to music on it. I just like the type of transparent clarity that KEF's produce, and thought that if you're a KEF fan you might appreciate that. With your set-up though, you may need to get their Sound Diffusers, because they don't utilize the reflected sound off your walls. It's the opposite; they use direct sound to create the virtual surround.


Here's their site: www.niro1.com 


Good Luck!


----------



## Ximori

Does anyone have some experience comparing the newer Mainstage HD with the Niro reference speakers? Thanks.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Mainstage HD is *still* "coming soon." Its about a year behind schedule if you read the 2004 CEDIA press release on there site. ( www.soundmatters.com ).


But based on price alone, I'd imagine the Niro would be superior.


----------



## laubert

Hi all,


What is the length of the cable speaker of the Binaura B102AC ?


Do you think if I need a longer cable, I could find one on the market ? is it

a standard cable ?


On their web site, they also show another model (B100WC). Does anybody have any information about this one (differences,..)


Thanks for your answer.


Laurent.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I am actually going to be fiddling with my unit tonight (or thursday), I'll try remember to measure it, and take a picture.


I am far from an expert on wires, but I can't say I have seen one like it. Worst case, the mfg may be able to help you with a longer length.


I've seen the pictures of the other unit. Looks cool. Probably a follow-up product, haven't seen anything else about it.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> What is the length of the cable speaker of the Binaura B102AC ?
> 
> 
> Do you think if I need a longer cable, I could find one on the market ? is it
> 
> a standard cable ?
> 
> 
> On their web site, they also show another model (B100WC). Does anybody have any information about this one (differences,..)
> 
> 
> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> 
> Laurent.



The B100WC unit has "wings". It doesn't have the enclosure that the B102AC has. That being said, it looks like the B102AC is the same configuration as the B100WC except for the addition of the speaker grill enclosure. I believe they function identically.


I don't recall off the top of my head, but I would say the main speaker cable is easily two meters long (maybe more).


mark


----------



## Bored

Hoping someone here may be able to help since some of you own the 2.1 systems. I am finishing a family room and it is not an ideal setup for a 5.1 system so I figured a 2.1 system would be the way to go. Room is 15 long x 13 wide and only 8 ft ceilings so sound should bounce around well. One end opens to a stairway and the other to a dining room.


Here are some pics....

pbase(dot)com/themilkman/living_room


I am not an audiophile, just need something WAF friendly and since I buying commercial plasma need some kind of speakers. Mostly need for tv and movie, not much music. Price range is 500-600 max so it rules out my Yamaha YSP-1







Want something that will give decent coverage as we are sitting about 10-12' away.


Any help would be greatly appreciated....


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Based on that budget, and that layout, and the MSRP's in post 3, of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post5340289 


The Zvox (plus sub)

Mainstage or Mainstage HD (when it finally releases) plus sub

The Binaura

The Sherwood

or the Niro


I am not sure the bouncing Yamaha would work well for you with the seating so close to the wall.


I have and like the Binaura (but I got it on sale). The Mainstage and Zvox have been well received around here in the past, but are older designs. I'd take a second look at the Niro and Sherwood based on the look of your rendered furniture, budget and room.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bored* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hoping someone here may be able to help since some of you own the 2.1 systems. I am finishing a family room and it is not an ideal setup for a 5.1 system so I figured a 2.1 system would be the way to go. Room is 15 long x 13 wide and only 8 ft ceilings so sound should bounce around well. One end opens to a stairway and the other to a dining room.
> 
> 
> Here are some pics....
> 
> pbase(dot)com/themilkman/living_room
> 
> 
> I am not an audiophile, just need something WAF friendly and since I buying commercial plasma need some kind of speakers. Mostly need for tv and movie, not much music. Price range is 500-600 max so it rules out my Yamaha YSP-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want something that will give decent coverage as we are sitting about 10-12' away.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated....



Hey, those are some pretty cool renderings of your room.


I'd tend to agree with dc_pilgrim, the Binaura is working very well for my bedroom - seems to be a similar size to your room. My only complaint is the conflict with the Tivo remote.


I also have a ZVOX Audio 315 Sound Console which I had enjoyed before picking up the Binaura. I would still recommend it considering the price, although it may be a little small for your room.


I took a look at the Niro, but I wasn't impressed with it given the price. The higher end units look nice, but at that price, I would sooner consider a receiver and separate speakers - even if I only went with a stereo setup.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> What is the length of the cable speaker of the Binaura B102AC ?



I measured it to be approximately 120 inches. Give or take. I'll post a picture of the connection later.


EDIT - picture of the end of the cable attached:


----------



## Iliketowatch

dear nurstnicholas


dav-x1 is a pretty good deal, if you buy it with a tv at the same time u get £150 cash back which aint bad.


cant post a link cos thebsite sed so










check out vanns(dot)com for a review.


hope this helps


----------



## vanelo

Two words for Sony DAV-X1: No surround!!!!!!!


Terrible choice.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iliketowatch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dear nurstnicholas
> 
> 
> dav-x1 is a pretty good deal, if you buy it with a tv at the same time u get £150 cash back which aint bad.
> 
> 
> cant post a link cos thebsite sed so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> check out vanns(dot)com for a review.
> 
> 
> hope this helps



That better perform wonders for the price. Otherwise I'd be looking at the Yamaha or one of the higher priced Niro systems.


Mark


----------



## laubert




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I measured it to be approximately 120 inches. Give or take. I'll post a picture of the connection later.
> 
> 
> EDIT - picture of the end of the cable attached:



Thank you for your answer.


Did you have the chance to listen some music on the Binaura ?


Laurent.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Did you have the chance to listen some music on the Binaura ?
> 
> 
> Laurent.



A little. I am not golden ears, but it sounds better than anything in my house. Now that isn't saying too much, as the competition is various computer speakers, alarm clocks, and boomboxes. I listened to the soundtrack from the Royal Tennebaums (sp?), which has a few orchestral pieces and fringe pop songs. I thought it sounded pretty clear, but I have heard better elsewhere. The difference maker for me was the prescence of a sub - made a much bigger difference with music then I would have imagined. Ignorance was bliss, now I want to upgrade the computer set up where my mp3s sit.


Nutshell - to my untrained ears, pretty good. But I wouldn't consider it a competitor to separates.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for your answer.
> 
> 
> Did you have the chance to listen some music on the Binaura ?
> 
> 
> Laurent.



No comment. I haven't listened to any music on it unless you count move soundtracks - which sound pretty damn good for such an affordable unit.


Mark


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mainstage HD is *still* "coming soon." Its about a year behind schedule if you read the 2004 CEDIA press release on there site. ( www.soundmatters.com ).
> 
> 
> But based on price alone, I'd imagine the Niro would be superior.



dc, so it should be available now, correct?


since they both have a good return policy I might give them a test drive. While I don't expect them to sound more superior than my current setup of NHT Superzeros and Paradigm Atoms, I'm hoping they will sound better than computer HT speakers like the Logitechs or Klipschs.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Nope - still not available right now.

http://www.soundmatters.com/mainstagehd.html 


I got an e-mail from them the other day indicated that the first batch of their mini-sub had arrived, and were going to send out on a first come-first serve basis. That product still says "coming soon," so I am guessing that they are offering the sub to the people on their mailing list.


I'll post if I hear anything else. Bear in mind, I started to look at the "HD" version in January. Its been pretty delayed. The regular version could be pretty good as a stand-in, but the light blinks when ideal - which would bother me.


----------



## nurstnicholas

Has anyone any experience of the above 2.1 system please?

Thanks


----------



## tristanjohn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nurstnicholas;
> 
> 
> Seems like no one replied to your request for suggestions, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. How about the Niro systems?
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert, but I use KEF's in my primary HT where everything is a separate. I got a Niro Reference system about a month ago for my smaller den set-up, and the Niro has the closest sound to my KEF's that I've ever heard in any audio system. And that includes when I listen to music on it. I just like the type of transparent clarity that KEF's produce, and thought that if you're a KEF fan you might appreciate that. With your set-up though, you may need to get their Sound Diffusers, because they don't utilize the reflected sound off your walls. It's the opposite; they use direct sound to create the virtual surround.
> 
> 
> Here's their site: www.niro1.com
> 
> 
> Good Luck!



You make me want to listen to your KEF setup now. When I think of "transparent" sound my mind's mental calipers wrap themselves around my large Advents, which still today (at least in some circles) are considered a sort of standard of transparency and neutrality of sound. (I read an article somewhere, not all that long ago--a few years past--of a sound engineer who still uses a pair of Advents positioned right off to the front of his mixing board for his reference speakers.) And for what it's worth, thirty years ago and more KEF enjoyed a somewhat similar reputation in the industry, though I've sort of lost track of that company and its product line over time.


Getting back to the request of Nurstnicholas: it could well be that the Niro Reference system is the perfect solution for his cramped-spaced needs. From what I've read (and there doesn't seem to be that much out there, or at least not readily available) this system is more of a "hot spot" design, and that sounds like just the ticket for the room configuration described by Nurstnicholas.


One thing that makes me wonder about the Niro Reference package is the allusion to the plastic housing of that main speaker module. It could be that the plastic employed is a material of high grade and a quality for ultra-low resonance, but still, whenever I hear the word "plastic" my psyche is conditioned to quickly ask myself . . . plastic?







(This opposed to the supposedly excellent build quality, say, of the Yamaha YSP-1 package.)


Anyway, I'd like to hear both systems (as well as yours now, as I mentioned), for my living room could stand some kind of decent sound upgrade for watching movies into the night, and I don't have a lot of space to work with there, either.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nurstnicholas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone any experience of the above 2.1 system please?
> 
> Thanks



Sorry, any product links? Happy to add it to the list on post 3.


----------



## chesky

Dear nurstnicholas,


I was looking aroung for a 2.1 system like you do. Was interested in the bose 321 gsII system until I chanced across Denon S-101.


There is a few reason why I chose a 2.1 system, first is that no messsy cables all over the place, if you have a ipod, =) I prefer a simple set-up with good quality sound from both my CDs and DVDs.


My initial impression of the Denon s101 was the solution to what i wanted, Bose 321 GSII was too costly (although S301 was about the same price). First I'm using the Sharp 32" LCD, connected with the Denon s101 was a perfect match in look and design.


Set-up was easy as ABC. No Fuss! Now to the music. You would expect clear and warm sounding for vocals. The bass is not too overwhelming. However I heard some hissing (background) sound when i turn up the volume quite a bit. (still investigating) As for DVD, it did ok or perharps better than i expexted.. All this is what i heard out of the box. Nothing was tune, purely factory settings.


I'm not an expert in Home theatre neither I'm a audiophile, although I used to have quite a decent set-up(tube amps, copland cd player, monitor audio speakers, etc)before. This Denon s101 is not for everybody. If you are one who's


* looking for a good looking HTIB,

* fits into your interior home design,

* good dvd entertainment

* good soundings

* owns a IPOD and loving it!!

* simple set-up,

* fuss free,

* etc


Hope this helps. if you guys needs any photo of my set-up can pm me!! thanks


----------



## Chauncy Gardner

First off, great thread everyone.


Personally, I think the minimalist approach to home theater sound is where the mainstream market will be heading in the future and that's what makes this discussion so pertinent.


I just completed a search for an upgrade to the family room TV sound and like alot of folks dipping their toe into the HT pool had to weigh the usual factors like budget, WAF, ergonomics, and space. A couple were constraining, especially WAF and my own ignorance.


After several weeks of reading everything from forums like this, product reviews, expert advice, etc. I found myself not just overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices out there but lusting for more, bigger, better. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I realized I was suffering from a classic case of project creep. And I was about to really piss off the wife. I had forgotten the original and primary goal - to turn off my TV speakers and get more enveloped by quality sound be it for a DVD, a ball game, or a sitcom.


One problem I had with many of the solutions discussed on this thread is that my family room TV sits inside an armoire. Another complication is that the armoire sits in a corner. This made the Yamaha and Niro unusable.


I auditioned the Bose and thought they sounded better than all the e-bashing going on. I just give them poor marks on value.


Then I eliminated zvox due to lack of inputs. Mainstage looks promissing but months of delays with the new product has me concerned about potential problems with the product, company, or both.


I happen to live near a Cambridge Soundworks store so I went to audition the Surroundworks. It sounded very nice but either due to the in-store set-up or my own limitations, I wasn't getting a grand worth of surround stage. Plus, I already have a DVD player. Half-jokingly I asked the salesman, "What else you got?" He flashed a wry grin, leaned towards me and just above a whisper said, "I've got a sweet little system that will blow you away, if you can live with stereo."


Stereo, especially audiophile quality stereo in a small package, was going to be light years from my tin-can TV sound so I gladly followed him to the far wall where I was introduced to the Megaworks 210d.


Long story short, I have this system installed at home and just can't believe my ears. A 270 watt system, an 8" bass that get down to 35Hz, and two satelites that deliver very rich sound. As a kicker, this $299 system is being discontinued and is quietly being "closed out" at an unbelievable $149.


I realize this strays from the intent of the thread, but I was in the same shoes as many here, and this was the solution for me. One man's journey.


Chance


----------



## Ximori

Chance, good one.


I'm still blown away by Cambridge's first satellite pc speakers, up to now. Way back then, there seem to be only few that had succeeded in packing in rich quality sound inside those tiny cubes


Just ordered Niro reference today to try out...


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope - still not available right now.
> 
> http://www.soundmatters.com/mainstagehd.html
> 
> 
> I got an e-mail from them the other day indicated that the first batch of their mini-sub had arrived, and were going to send out on a first come-first serve basis. That product still says "coming soon," so I am guessing that they are offering the sub to the people on their mailing list.
> 
> 
> I'll post if I hear anything else. Bear in mind, I started to look at the "HD" version in January. Its been pretty delayed. The regular version could be pretty good as a stand-in, but the light blinks when ideal - which would bother me.



hey dave, the Mainstage HD and subwoofer will be shipping on 11/15/05


had I known, I could've waited for this one, instead.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Well they redesigned their website. Looks like they are finally, _really_ ready to go. Good for them. Says "on/before" 11/15 - - could check return policy on the Niro. . . Others have been pleased with that system, so I think you'll be happy either way.


I looked at the remote for the HD, which is an update on their last one. But I noticed how it is virtually the twin of the remote on the Binaura I have. Never noticed that before. Kind of funny, makes you wonder if these design shops source their manufacturing to the same place - - or if the weird hourglass remote is the hallmark of virtual surround. I'm rambling now.


Either way, please post your thoughts on the Niro. Chauncey & Chesky - - appreciate the reviews/comments, also.


EDIT - Got the promotional e-mail from them. They said hope to be ready to ship before the end of October, and the 11/15 date is the "at the latest" date if they have customs issues. I wish them the best of luck with their product launch.


----------



## chesky

Hi, personally I had not tried the Niro system as it is not available in my country. However I'm impressed with it, (looking at their website).. Great innovation, cool design... Sound?? maybe someone can share here?? =)


I'm still at the mist of testing my new denon s-101. Trying out LOTR, (return of the king) next monday.. stay tune guys!!!


Regards


----------



## Ximori

Earlier, I pulled out my review with the Niro system b/c I thought it deserved more listening time.


Later though I will highlight the strengths and weaknesses of this remarkable speaker.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Ximori - take your time, but I hope you repost with your further thoughts.


I read the review, all seemed very positive, I was surprised to read your impression of the "surround" elements in the sweat spot. The Binaura, in my opinion doesn't deliver much in the virtual surround, but is an excellent (budget) virtual 3.1. I had assumed the Yamaha in the right kind of room was the only one who could acheive a more enveloping sound.


----------



## mczolton

For the cost of the Yamaha or the Niro Pro, I would seriously consider a full-fledge surround sound system. Besides, I wouldn't expect a single unit speaker system to rival five or more correctly placed speakers.


Mark


----------



## Ximori

Dave, I was just brainstorming while typing that review. Then I realized only later that it didn't seem fair enough as l was simply placing more emphasis on its WFE (wow factor effect). Somehow I felt more drawn by the thunderous sounds it delivered, rather than putting more listening time with different materials to test it with.


Mark, I agree -one box will never replace 5 that are set up properly. However, of those ~1k system, how many can really deliver very natural surrounding effects? I'd say, quite a few. But let me put it more in perspective: In my conventional 5-speaker HT setup, you normally hear 70% of the sound coming from the front, left, and right channels while 30% surrounds from the rear, when listening to a good surround source material, such as Gladiator. Sound placement is wide and detectable as you enjoy the 360 degree soundfield.


With the Niro system, they feel more like a 80/20 spread or less on a front/side dispersion. There are times when they reach beyond the 180 degree soundfield thus giving you the sense that they were coming from the rear. Although the effects themselves sound very thin, but they're there somewhere...










I don't know much about the Pro1 but I presume the Reference is more superior, not to mention that it came with a newer firmware update for noticeable improvements and DTS support.


Now, maybe the Yamaha does a better job with this type of technology but I doubt that the quality of sound and sonic detail you hear is on par with the Niro system, based on the several reviews. This Niro Reference system kicks butt and can compete with 3K systems at their own sonic level, IMO. Anyhow, the only way really to find out is thru a side-side comparison.


I have a busy week so will try to post more impressions this coming weekend. Later.


----------



## mczolton

FYI: Home Theater Magazine has a great review of the Binaura in their latest issue. The review isn't on their site yet, but they gave it a solid 90/100.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI: Home Theater Magazine has a great review of the Binaura in their latest issue. The review isn't on their site yet, but they gave it a solid 90/100.
> 
> 
> Mark



Here is the link.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hometh...x/1105binaura/ 


This topic (1.1 or 2.1) has come up a bit recently. Post 3 has my list of devices. I need to add the Polksurround bar (or something like that) at some point. The Yamaha has added two updated models - YSP-800 & YSP-1000 - - which include some auto-calibration features. Looks neat.


----------



## mczolton

I am still enjoying my Binaura - especially for the price










Mark


----------



## grinchy

I'd love to get one of these, the Mainstage HD and sub are appealing. Trouble is there's a bit of a distribution problem for my room. In the back middle of a 15 x 20 foot space, is the DVD player and Projector. In the front would be the single speaker. Who's seen a 40 foot optical or coax digital cable?


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Who's seen a 40 foot optical or coax digital cable?



You'd probably have to make them. You can get all the supplies at parts express (.com) or the like. I have seen threads on the speakers forum discussing making your own speaker wires. There is nothing magical about digital coax, so I'd imagine its doable.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

To follow up, this thread had a discussion on cables with a bunch of links.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...31#post6625631 


including this one to a 40-50 RCA cable. $76 bucks, but an option.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/a...695a.html#long


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To follow up, this thread had a discussion on cables with a bunch of links.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...31#post6625631
> 
> 
> including this one to a 40-50 RCA cable. $76 bucks, but an option.
> 
> http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/a...695a.html#long



I wonder what kind of loss you would incur for long digital audio runs?


Mark


----------



## mrkrispy

Anyone have good suggestions on where to purchase the Binaura setup? Most of the links I have found no longer exist. It looks like the Binaura package has been going for $200-$300.


any big box retailers sell it so I can take a look/hear in person?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I believe target.com has it at MSRP. Bestbuy had them, but don't seem to any more. I got mine during one of their Wednesday sales.


Never seen them in an actual B&M store.


----------



## mczolton

Best Buy had it as a "Web Only" special. http://www.globalsemi.com/ also has it for MSRP.


Mark


----------



## James Hill

Very glad to see this thread. Thanks for all the information! Here's my $0.02...


I've owned the ZVOX for about a year now and love it. Given the proper room size it's the perfect solution for casual TV viewing or music listening.


As some have previously stated, the "catch" is that this box needs to be used with one device. This means using it with the "audio out" on your television (which I'm doing) or with a single music player (an iPod or an Airport Express, both of which I've tested).


Does anyone know how the ZVOX company is doing as a whole? In some ways I'm shocked that this device hasn't received more press than it has, and the only "new" product they have planned is called the "Porta Party"... Not exactly a high point in marketing genius.


James Hill


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> and the only "new" product they have planned is called the "Porta Party"... Not exactly a high point in marketing genius.



That is too funny. I thought I had read "somewhere" that they had a follow on product coming. Maybe that's the "PP". I thought they were trying to hop on the I-pod bandwagon with their next product.


----------



## Ximori

I wonder why they keep moving the dates for the Mainstage. They will lose credibility if they continue doing this...


It'll be interesting to match the Binaura against the Niro for half the price.


----------



## mrkrispy

I am leaning towards the Binaura based on reviews, flexibility, and the price point. Our room doesn't have the proper wall setup to reflect the waves using the Yamaha YSP setups, so I am hoping the Binaura is good. I am a little worried about the lack of connectivity though.


That and I like my older Pioneer THX Elite receiver, hard to imagine shelving that for a Single Speaker setup....but I am no longer able to run the surrounds so....


----------



## PlasmaToad

Has anyone seen\\heard this?

Xitel Soundaround 


You supply the speakers.


Opinions? I too am interested in the Binaura, but this one has me intrigued.


----------



## Ximori

Haha...another similar remote! Interesting.


Anyhow, I visited a store today that carries the Yamaha YSP. The surround elements that sounded thin in the Niro system were wider and more pronounced in the Yamaha. I was surprised how more distinct they were - so far the best I've heard in that department. However, the quality in the fronts were not as clear as the Niro's, at least from what I recall. Unfortunately, I no longer have the Niro and didn't spend enough time today with the Yamaha as I was also curious with which type of cables that were used in that speaker...I guess too soon to make an early impression.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

The yamaha, in a room where the sounds will bounce is impressive. I listen to one the other day, and felt a little buyers remorse. My floorplan is pretty open, and it probably wouldn't have worked as well in my place anyways.


Hadn't seen the xitel box before. Looks like it is an add-on that simulates what binaura/mainstage/virtual dolby, etc are doing. I guess it adds a few variables based on the placement and quality of your existing system. But for one hundred bucks . . .


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrkrispy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have good suggestions on where to purchase the Binaura setup? Most of the links I have found no longer exist. It looks like the Binaura package has been going for $200-$300.



I just picked one up on Ebay - the box was labeled with (among other things) "Carton 353 of 630" so I think he's got a few more to move


----------



## henryd31

Sos I guess mainstagehd is still not out yet ?


----------



## SixPacForSur

OK, I have purchased the Sherwood "Hollywood at Home" (VR-670) 2.1 system as a family Christmas present. Since I can't hook it up until X-mas, I was wondering if anyone else out there has heard one? It got some solid reviews from the few mags and blogs that have demo'd it, but I'd be interested in hearing what you guys thought. Thanks.


----------



## zrx1100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just picked one up on Ebay - the box was labeled with (among other things) "Carton 353 of 630" so I think he's got a few more to move




Who was the seller?


Thanks


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zrx1100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Who was the seller?
> 
> 
> Thanks



I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules...


do a search on ebay for "binaura"

the username is "consumersolutions"


----------



## zrx1100

Thank you


How do you like it, honestly. I am split between binaura and bose freestyle


----------



## mczolton

I am really enjoying my Binaura.


Mark


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zrx1100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> How do you like it, honestly. I am split between binaura and bose freestyle



As opposed to lying? Well gee, if you insist










The three walls to my condo living room are where furniture etc are placed. The fourth side consists of ~8' opening into kitchen, ~4' wall where TV is located, ~3' opening to hallway, ~3' opening to basement stairs. As I didn't think speakers stands in the walkways was practical, for me it came down to the Niro 600 or the Binaura.


It is a huge improvement over the below-the-screen speakers built into the TV (Samsung Slimfit 3080), and in the sweet spot (couch opposite TV) there is surprising soundstage and ambience. It has enough power and sound output (in a quiet room) to handle the dynamic range of the DVDs I've watched so far without noticable distortion during loud passages or ear strain during quiet ones, however there isn't much reserve capacity. It does not reproduce the very top or bottom end of the audio range, but I didn't expect an audiophile quality system at this price point. I have not noted any signs of listener fatique after several hours.


It has enough inputs for my needs (toslink from TV's ota dtv tuner, spdif from Oppo dvd player, analog stereo from TV's cable tuner) leaving one spdif and one analog input to spare.


At less than half the price of the Niro 600, I am *quite* satisfied.


For that matter, at $1500 for the Slimfit TV + Binaura + Oppo dvd + stand + attic antenna + universal remote, I am tickled pink with the entire package


----------



## zrx1100

Thanks for the reply. Binaura sounds promising. I live in a studio in San Francisco, so I am not too worried about power output. I would like, though, to use it for both, video and audio. Have you tried listening to any audio on it?


Thanks


----------



## mczolton

I'm not really much of a critical music listener. Sorry I can't help you there.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Also not a critical listener. Although as a novice I have enjoyed listening to music from it. Its better than anything in my house - but that is thin competition (misc boomboxes and pc speakers). The sub is a changer for me, and it is a pretty meager sub in these parts.


----------



## plughplover

Think I've found a "bug" with the Binaura...


When processing stereo signals (via coax or analog inputs) you have three choices of "Stereo Mode" - 'Binaura Stereo', 'Binaura Vocal', or 'Dolby Prologic'


I fed the unit some Dolby Prologic encoded material, from a variety of sources, via both digital and analog inputs, setting the unit to Prologic mode in each case.


In all cases the bass output just about vanishes.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Think I've found a "bug" with the Binaura...
> 
> 
> When processing stereo signals (via coax or analog inputs) you have three choices of "Stereo Mode" - 'Binaura Stereo', 'Binaura Vocal', or 'Dolby Prologic'
> 
> 
> I fed the unit some Dolby Prologic encoded material, from a variety of sources, via both digital and analog inputs, setting the unit to Prologic mode in each case.
> 
> 
> In all cases the bass output just about vanishes.



I'll have to check on this. In my experience, selecting 'Pro Logic' results in less output from the sub, but it is still there. You just have to turn the sub up.


Try this, feed the Binaura a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal and see if you can switch listening modes on the digital (DVD, optical, and coaxial) inputs. On my unit, it locks into 'Dolby Digital'. Some DVD material that is truly Dolby Digital 2.0 is incorrectly flagged as DD 5.1. Since the Binaura locks into DD mode, the disc doesn't sound right.


I confirmed this with the folks at Binaura and I believe they are working on a revised unit that will correct this.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## plughplover

Yes DD stream locks it into "Dolby Digital". However, that's not related to my testing.


For example, in one case I used a Dolby Digital demo disk I have that has selectable Stereo, Surround, and 5.1 mixes. I fed (1) analog stereo and (2) digital PCM to the Binaura from the dvd player. In "Binaura Stereo" mode I had ample bass, in "Dolby Prologic" mode practically none.


I've also noted this with ProLogic encoded analog audio from PS2 games and TV broadcasts (so it's not a source related issue ).


Oh, and even turning up the sub all the way doesn't come close to the bass level when in 'Binaura Stereo" mode with the sub flat.


As there is no provision for firmware upgrades, I guess we are stuck with it as it is. But if anyone thinking about purchase is interested in the Prologic decoding, beware - there is a problem that makes that feature of questionable value.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I am finding that the binaura has a little difficulty resetting after a power outage. Basically, after an outage it has difficulty detecting its feeds and auto switching. I have been toggling the power switch, and then switching between digital and analog feeds trying to 'wake it up'. Selecting the input doesn't seem to get it done. Its not a big deal, but its a bit of a PITA since I have the main unit tucked behind furniture.


It could be the sony tv's outputting which is the source of the problem - - but I don't think so, as it wasn't picking up the audio from the separately fed dvd player either.


Hadn't noticed the pro-logic issue. Probably in part because the unit is behind the stand, so I don't play with the modes much.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am finding that the binaura has a little difficulty resetting after a power outage. Basically, after an outage it has difficulty detecting its feeds and auto switching. I have been toggling the power switch, and then switching between digital and analog feeds trying to 'wake it up'. Selecting the input doesn't seem to get it done. Its not a big deal, but its a bit of a PITA since I have the main unit tucked behind furniture.
> 
> 
> It could be the sony tv's outputting which is the source of the problem - - but I don't think so, as it wasn't picking up the audio from the separately fed dvd player either.
> 
> 
> Hadn't noticed the pro-logic issue. Probably in part because the unit is behind the stand, so I don't play with the modes much.



I don't use Pro Logic either. DD and DTS are fine for DVDs and Bianura Vocal/Stereo is good for most two channel sources.


I haven't run into any issue with the power. Did you check their website?


Mark


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes DD stream locks it into "Dolby Digital". However, that's not related to my testing.



I know, I was just asking










Mark


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know, I was just asking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark



No problem - did the test and confirmed your finding.


Possibly related, I've noticed various weirdness when feeding DD from HDTV broadcasts as network and local station switch between program and various commercials. I suspect it has to do with 5.1 vs 2.0 streams...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am finding that the binaura has a little difficulty resetting after a power outage. Basically, after an outage it has difficulty detecting its feeds and auto switching. I have been toggling the power switch, and then switching between digital and analog feeds trying to 'wake it up'. Selecting the input doesn't seem to get it done.



Haven't had any power problems so can't comment on that, but I have had static discharges cause it to go goofy a few times. Had to power it down/up once to get working again, but other times just switching inputs brought it back.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Possibly related, I've noticed various weirdness when feeding DD from HDTV broadcasts as network and local station switch between program and various commercials. I suspect it has to do with 5.1 vs 2.0 streams...



I'm willing to bet this is correct but I'm not using the Binaura for HDTV so I can't confirm it. My Integra receiver switches between DD5.1 and DDPLII during commercials on my other setup though. This sounds similar.


Mark


----------



## henryd31

So what happened to these guys ? Are they actually shipping, if so anyone got

any type of experience with the new box yet ?


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henryd31* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what happened to these guys ? Are they actually shipping, if so anyone got
> 
> any type of experience with the new box yet ?



I sent them an e-mail and got a quick reply saying that the product will begin shipping the end of this week and should have backorders filled by early next.


The website will be updated soon as well.


----------



## tolax

I am just about to order a HD Panasonic 42" Plasma and it is going to be in an L-shaped room. From where the TV will sit the right wall is about 6ft away and the left wall about 20ft away! Sofa is about 12 ft back directly in front of the TV and it is hard against the back wall.


From reading the thread (good links thanks) and the reviews it would seem that the 'bounce off walls' systems such as the Yamaha are not going to work - no space behind sofa and mismatched left/right walls.


Looking to ideally spend $600 maybe up to $1000. Not really that fussed about an integrated DVD player as I use an existing DIVX player most of the time and it is mainly the kids that use the DVD anyway (Wiggles in HD anyone?)







Aside from the kids programs the set will mainly be used for watching regular TV.


The reviews of the Binaura seem generally positive but would it would be worth waiting for the mainstageHD or possibly going with the Denon S-101 or one of the Niro's.


Any advice gratefully received


Thanks


Tolax


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Those are generally the models I'd look at.


Be careful with the Mainstage HD and shipping promises. If they really aren't shipping next week, I wouldn't "hang on" for it. It is about a year behind schedule, and was alway "just about ready to be released."


You might want to add the Polk Surround bar to your list. I have been meaning to add that to Post #3 as another possibility.


The Denon, Yamaha and maybe the Polk are readily available at B&M retaillers. You may want to demo them, or buy them with a good return policy. The others can be ordered on-line, and generally have good return policies (some free ship back) but that is definitely a more complex process.


Is this just for movies or do you plan to use it for music. If you want music, you may want to look at the various 2.1 systems (Denon, KEF), as they will allow for stereo separation.


Good luck in your search. Please post back any comments.


----------



## Ximori

good news - soundmatter website updated and they began shipping.


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try this, feed the Binaura a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal and see if you can switch listening modes on the digital (DVD, optical, and coaxial) inputs. On my unit, it locks into 'Dolby Digital'. Some DVD material that is truly Dolby Digital 2.0 is incorrectly flagged as DD 5.1. Since the Binaura locks into DD mode, the disc doesn't sound right.
> 
> 
> I confirmed this with the folks at Binaura and I believe they are working on a revised unit that will correct this.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark



Just curious, how did you 'confirm this with the folks at Binaura'? I tried email'ing the address on the web page, but got no response. Also, the 800 number printed on the instruction manual has been disconnected.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious, how did you 'confirm this with the folks at Binaura'? I tried email'ing the address on the web page, but got no response. Also, the 800 number printed on the instruction manual has been disconnected.



I just emailed their support staff. They were pretty good about getting back to me within a day.


Mark


----------



## chipshot

Polk Audio has a single surround speaker now as well. It's called the SurroundBar. I'm not allowed to post links since I'm a new member.


----------



## soundmax

Hi all,


I'm new to the forum and want to say thanks for all the infomative posts.










I'm very close to purchasing the Binaura. I'll be using the system in my bedroom to accompany the brand new Sharp Aquos 15LCD and DVD player. This is a secondary system to my main 5.1 in the den.


I'm a little concerned about the set up though. I'm viewing the TV from my front left as I'm on the bed. I'm wondering how the front channel will sound given it would be about a foot or so below ear level and over to the left. Maybe I'm being too funny about that. I read the instruction manual and it talks about the importance of main speak placement. I can neither place it on top or directly under the TV.


dc_pilgrim or mczolton, how is your main channel set up in relation to your TV?


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soundmax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I'm new to the forum and want to say thanks for all the infomative posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very close to purchasing the Binaura. I'll be using the system in my bedroom to accompany the brand new Sharp Aquos 15LCD and DVD player. This is a secondary system to my main 5.1 in the den.
> 
> 
> I'm a little concerned about the set up though. I'm viewing the TV from my front left as I'm on the bed. I'm wondering how the front channel will sound given it would be about a foot or so below ear level and over to the left. Maybe I'm being too funny about that. I read the instruction manual and it talks about the importance of main speak placement. I can neither place it on top or directly under the TV.
> 
> 
> dc_pilgrim or mczolton, how is your main channel set up in relation to your TV?



My Binaura is positioned directly under my display. The display is about eight feet from me and a little to my right. I have the binaura angled upward. The center channel should sound fine for you. I can clearly make out the distinction between the left, center, and right channels on the Binaura in my setup.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim

My take is similar to Mark's. Mine is on top of my CRT, angled down slightly. If it isn't extremely far, it shouldn't be a big problem.


----------



## soundmax

dc_pilgrim, mczolton, thanks for the response. I may pick it up this weekend.


----------



## Ximori

A few months ago, I compared the Niro Reference system against a 5K system - the Triads Gold Omni6 /In ceiling speakers mated with a B&W sub and, I believe, a 1K+ Yamaha receiver. My neighbor who owns the system was stunned as to how the Niro nearly matched the soundstage of his Triads when Saving Private Ryan was demoed. In, fact he thought of getting one for his 42" plasma. Surround imaging still remain thin - but there simply is no contest when comparing the virtual elements against the real thing, anyway. Without having to do any side by side comparison with a true 5.1 HT system I really doubt that you will be disappointed with the Niro. One unique feature I think where it excels among others is in the way it delivers full body sound with great imaging. The sound you hear never feels crammed into one tiny speaker. And the quality and detail coming out under high volumes is uncanny. The system can play clean w/o restraint no matter how much you crank the volume. Dialogues have weight and sound natural and are much clearer than some center channels I've heard out there. Also, the bass/ midrange ranks from good to excellent with any type of film and music as well.


Ideally, I would like to have two Niros - one at front and a second from behind, to achieve discrete 6.1. If ever they apply this I'm never going back to a 5-speaker HT setup. I actually read from reviews that it was done before but wasn't as refined nor successful. My guess is neither the better versions, like the Reference or the Pro II models, nor the upgraded amplifier, were ever used for that type of implementation at the time.


Having said that, I ordered on Wednesday the Full Stage HD from soundmatters to see how it'll stack up with the pricier Niro. It consists of the Mainstage HD + sub. If sound delivers as advertised and prove somewhere in the Home theatre blow your socks off level, then I may have to keep it and order another set to connect to the rears for a true 6.1 set up. I wish I still have the Niro for direct comparison though.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

ximori - - I am looking forward to your comments on the fullstage. Hope it was worth the wait.


----------



## soundmax

Best Buy had a web special and I took the plunge. Should be here in another week. I actually had a chance to see it and touch it for real today. Seems to have a sturdy build quality. Anyway, I'll comment further once the Binaura is set up.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ximori - - I am looking forward to your comments on the fullstage. Hope it was worth the wait.



I previewed the Mainstage HD for a couple of hours...well, I still have my socks on.







Without getting too much in detail I came out very disappointed with this speaker. It definitely isn't worth the wait - and you're probably better off keeping the Binaura or wait till something new or more valuable comes out. Put simply, the Mainstage HD sounds as it looks - small and thin. I'm thinking this should be compared more with the Niro's movie mouse or one of those bose wave systems? I should have known better by just looking at specs alone and size of it. In the surrounds department...ZERO. I even went to a smaller room, like 10x12 to see if there will be some improvement.


This makes my choice easier. Having now heard the Niro Reference, Yamaha YSP, and Mainstage HD, the Niro is just a different animal. And since the Niro Pro II is slight cheaper, has the same core but different design as the Reference - this is what I think will be getting.


----------



## rmeyers30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ximori* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I previewed the Mainstage HD for a couple of hours...well, I still have my socks on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without getting too much in detail I came out very disappointed with this speaker. It definitely isn't worth the wait - and you're probably better off keeping the Binaura or wait till something new or more valuable comes out. Put simply, the Mainstage HD sounds as it looks - small and thin. I'm thinking this should be compared more with the Niro's movie mouse or one of those bose wave systems? I should have known better by just looking at specs alone and size of it. In the surrounds department...ZERO. I even went to a smaller room, like 10x12 to see if there will be some improvement.
> 
> 
> This makes my choice easier. Having now heard the Niro Reference, Yamaha YSP, and Mainstage HD, the Niro is just a different animal. And since the Niro Pro II is slight cheaper, has the same core but different design as the Reference - this is what I think will be getting.



I also was dissapointed by the FUllstage when I first received it. BUT I found that adjustiing the settings on the substage greatly improved things. The setting they tell you to start with are terrible for my set up which I think is typical. The Fullstage is next to the substage at the front of the room. The factory sets the phase to 180 and the level at 0. I found that setting the phase to 0 made a huge difference. Much much better. Now I am increasing the level to see what works best.


A little tweaking went a long way even if the socks are still on. For 600$ I think the fullstage is a good deal.


----------



## Ximori

rm, I've tried just about every setting. While there are improvements by positioning the sub the sound still feels crammed inside the box without having an open sense wide soundstage. And have you heard those annoying clicking noises as you increase the volume? Perhaps your experience is different from mine, however, I compared and based this from the Niro sound. Thanks for chiming in thoughto each his own. I personally won't spend 600 bucks for that quality.


Btw, I found the Substage a better piece. It is well built and cool that you can slip one underneath your couch or bedroom. I'd say the sub sounds like a real subwoofer and delivers the low ends quite well.


----------



## rmeyers30

Luckily I didn't hear any annoying clicks as I increased the sound. Unfortunately I haven't heard the NIRO system so I can't compare against that. I do have a real 5.1 system in my basement so I know what you mean by sound stage.


So far my experience seems to depend greatly on the source. For television the system isn't very expansive but I didn't have that expectation. With cable I am thankful I can get a picture







. The mainstage is a marginal improvment over the sound on my toshiba rear projection television in this case. The rear projection sound wasn't all that bad since the sound is coming from a pretty sizable speaker. The mainstage improved on the clarity of the sound, not in the surround sensation. On the other hand, DVDs like Batman Begins and Star wars III sounded much more robust and I was pleased with the way the system performed.


At this point I plan on keeping the mainstagehd + substage although I agree it didn't live up to the hype. I would be very interested to see what other people think.


----------



## nferra2

I just got the binuara system today, and for my purposes it seems like it will do ok. However i have a couple of problems that i do not know if there are fixes or not. One, i get a hum from the subwoofer at any volume over 30, it doesn't matter if the sub is + or - 10 db. Second, there is almost no output when the sub is in dolby prologic mode. I have both my xbox and cable box hooked directly to the unit via the L&R outputs from the component cables.


Any suggestions?


----------



## soundmax

nferra2,


I don't have mine yet but could there be electrical interference somehow?


Hopefully dc_pilgrim or mczolton will be able to offer a suggestion as they already have the system. Haven't read about this problem in their posts. Have you tried the trouble shooting guide at Binaura website? Not sure where you live but if you are in Canada they have a repair centre and number below. If you get this issue cleared up be sure and post please.


Global Electronic Supplies Inc.

Binaura Repair Center

5600 Timberlea Blvd

Mississauga, Ontario

Canada L4W 4M6


1-800-668-8776


----------



## sv_chamelea




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nferra2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got the binuara system today, ... *get a hum from the subwoofer at any volume over 30*, it doesn't matter if the sub is + or - 10 db.



This humming of sub raises a question I've wondered about. My nearby Radio Shack is pretty insistent on selling the Monster-brand of surge protector for all expensive AV components, especially LCD and/or plasma screens. I'd think that all audio components could benefit too.


Just a little curious about how many feel a surge protector / filter is important when connecting AV components to their house power?


----------



## csroc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sv_chamelea* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This humming of sub raises a question I've wondered about. My nearby Radio Shack is pretty insistent on selling the Monster-brand of surge protector for all expensive AV components, especially LCD and/or plasma screens. I'd think that all audio components could benefit too.
> 
> 
> Just a little curious about how many feel a surge protector / filter is important when connecting AV components to their house power?



I stick to a basic APC surge protector, nothing fancy. Ratshack just tells you that so they can sell you something absurdly overpriced.


I've never heard hum out of any sub anywhere I've lived, and I have always just used a basic surge protector.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Sorry, my unit doesn't hum.


On surge protectors - - (or conditioners or whatever) there is a long thread in the RPTV area (I guess some go UPS to shut down the bulb or something) which discusses different types. Its a frequently discussed topic all over the board.


That said, I have a surge protector, and I thinking of adding a UPS (if I spot a deal) due to 'the binaura needing to be reset after power outages' issue that I have.


----------



## mczolton

My Binaura sub doesn't hum. I am using a Monster MP HT800 surge protector with my Binaura. Nothing fancy. I do have a PureAV power conditioner on my other setup. The benefit is debatable as dc_pilgrim suggested. I wouldn't plug my equipment directly into the wall outlet though.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Ximori

I ordered the Niro Pro II and Movie mouse today. I expect some differences from the Reference b/c of the Pro II's wider body. And I'm not sure why the CNET review gave it a higher score than the Reference either.


----------



## grinchy

Got a mainstage, and I'm keeping it.


I had a nice budget amp with largish Yamaha bookshelfs and a mid-range ($100 in 1999) center channel. However, speaker positioning in my room was severely compromised.


The mainstage sounded the same/better for dialogue and movie sounds. It is deficient for stereo music listening. The "surround" mode provides some space, but lots of DSP artifacts. The "non-surround" mode is clearer, but very point-source. It's not bad, and I'm no audiophile (I live in a apt. - no real volume here, either)


The timber of the mainstage is cold, but I wouldn't call it harsh. My 5.1 system was warmer.


I did the comparisons without the sub turned on.


I packed up the 150 feet of speaker wire, 5 speakers, and amp (which make a stack the size of 5 mainstage cartons, and probably 15 actual units.


Cabling - to solve the whole 36 feet of coax problem to run the digital signal (I have a PJ and preferred short video cable runs), I bought 2 12 ft "shielded" phono cables (m-f) from Radio Shack. At $3.99 each, I was willing to risk problems. Combined these with a 12 ft sub cable I had, and no problems so far with hums, feedback, clicks, etc.


Using my sub greatly improves the mainstage, though the mainstage sub level adj. is problematic. To use the full range of the mainstage, the level adj needs to be turned quite high. This means the level on my sub is quite low (nearly to min). I may decide that I'd rather have the sub cover those freqs. Still experimenting.


HOOKUP ALERT: Do use the right channel of the mainstage sub output for driving your sub. The left channel has content, but it is severly limited. I didn't read the instructions too carefully, and missed this point.


Final conclusion - sounds about the same except for music. Lots smaller. Removes a bunch of speakers from my room. WAF off the charts (no amps, no sources, no speakers, 5 button remote, etc). Easy to setup and easy to use.


"Fixed" the green LED problem with blacked out masking tape cut to 1/4" square size. Can't see the light, can't see the tape.


I got a refurb from soundmatters and it looks and sounds perfect. YMMV.


----------



## Bert




> Quote:
> I ordered the Niro Pro II and Movie mouse today. I expect some differences from the Reference b/c of the Pro II's wider body. And I'm not sure why the CNET review gave it a higher score than the Reference either.



I'm pretty sure you would have been happy with either one. I've got the Reference and love it. Although I never test drove the Pro II, my suspicion is that NIRO designed the Pro II for aesthetics, the Reference for audiophiles. They've got a forum on their site where the system's designer, Niro Nakamichi, writes personal replies to any questions, and that's the drift I got from his comments. In reality, I'm guessing there's not a whole lot of difference between the two.


I ordered the Movie Mouse too, even though I thought it might be a gimmck, but the thing really works. You're going to find it handy for late nights; I usually take mine out and put it on my coffee table right in front of me.


----------



## LCD

thanks dave for compiling the list of products for this thread, it was a big help for research purposes! thanks also to ximori, who's thoughts on niro helped steer me in that direction. i've also jumped on the niro bandwagon. i ordered a reference system that should be arriving this week. i'm going to be quite disappointed if my socks don't get knocked off as the best speakers i have ever owned previous to this is a pair of klipsch gmx a2.1s.


anyone know why the niro prices have been going up with each successive generation even though they've been removing features (dvd player, radio) from the systems? i'd like to think it's because the newer products are that more sophisticated sonically, but that could be wishful thinking.


i wish there was a good way to determine the "value" of each one of these one box 5.1 solutions. for example, i would not expect the zvox to outperform the niro (at least, i hope it doesn't!), but it would be nice to know if the niro was really worth five times the amount of the zvox in terms of sound quality.


i've enjoyed this thread a great deal. thanks guys!


----------



## grinchy

More Mainstage comments.


Listened to a Tracy Chapman album (I think the fast car album) last night. I'm not a fan, but put it in once a year or so. Anyway, track 1 has this persistent treble sound in the right channel. The mainstage actually imaged this sound! Spatially it was up and far, far right (like five, six feet from the speaker location). Imaging occured in both surround and "non-surround" mode.


I have the mainstage on a carpeted floor (we watch a 7.5 x 15 feet of a wall as our "screen"), and decided to angle it less dramatically (had it full tilt up, changed to half tilt). I think this allowed for better dispersion at the listening location, I suspect that we were literally "under" the bubble. Anyway, its growing on me for music.


I've spent some more time on the sub-level setting. I listened to some male voice tracks, and (starting from "off") increased the sub level control on the mainstage until it reproduced all of the voice. I wanted to get as much of the voice from the mainstage as possible, because it is too easy to localize when coming from the subwoofer. Then I moved to the sub and increased it's crossover until it started to also reproduce the voice, then backed off a little. I'm sure more tweaking will occur, but at least I now have some latitude with my sub's level control - before it was between about 0 and 1.5 on the level. Now I can get up to about 4 before it becomes overpowering.


We watched some silly art film last night, all dialogue with these strong "mood setting" musical elements between scenes - random very low beats and orchestral stuff. Mainstage did really well on both elements, and integrated nice and transparently with my sub when needed.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Anyone had any experience with the Sony DAV-X1? I found it locally for around $500, and was thing about going that route.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

LCD - no problem for the list. Let us know how the Niro treats you.


Chuck. There is a link in post #3 to a thread. Many folks feel that Sony isn't a good choice for audio (especially at the $1k MSRP). Its primary point of interest compared to others seems to be its HDMI port.


----------



## soundmax

My Binaura has made it to the local post office down the street. Hoping I can pick it up tomorrow.


PS:


Chuck Smith,


I have had the Sony HT-DDW740 5.1 system for a few years now. It has 600 watts of power including the powered sub woofer (100 watts). I'm no expert audiophile but I can tell you the system sounds incredible to my ears. I use it exclusively for DVDs. Tried a CD once but it didn't sound as good as a dedicated stereo system.


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## Ximori

grinchy, is it mainstage or mainstage HD?


Bert, I remember reading in that forum awhile back where Niro mentioned that there was hardly any difference between the Ref and Pro II. And that it was only for aesthetic reason. Although one article review (and I forgot which) did mention that he slightly preferred the sound of the Pro II. I'm guessing surround improvement might have to do with the wider body b/c the L and R channel are more distal. Anyhow, I agree either one will sound great and any slight differences should really be less of an issue. Btw, thanks - your post #40 is what propelled me to go for the Niro system.


LCD, you won't believe your ears.







Try using digital coax for listening. And don't forget to toggle between the six main buttons in the remote - bass, treble, dialog, subwoofer, center, and surround to find your own proper settings. I know $1K is a lot of money, so I'd be interested to know from you if the whole package warrants the price. glad that they have a nice 30 day return policy with no restocking fee.


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## grinchy

Xmori - It is a Mainstage. The older model. I like the new feature set on the Mainstage HD better (more power, reversible channels for use as a surround, can control it without the remote), but it was 2x the cost of my Mainstage refurb. I used that money to buy 1/2 a new subwoofer. Since I live in an apt I didn't see the need for more power.

I agree with your comment on "surround", I don't hear any there, but with the speaker properly positioned, there is a good wide, spacious soundstage that is fine for movies and music.


It's funny, because I was a super early adopter of Dolby Pro-Logic. I actually had a stand-alone Kenwood amp that I used with my old old school JVC receiver. The Kenwood provided a whopping 50W Center and 25W to each surround (output line level for the JVC to run the fronts). Used the pristine signal from a Hi-Fi VCR. This was in 1993. It was all about the surround.


But honestly, I got so tired of the speakers everywhere. I've always lived in an apt. and trying to figure a way to run the wires, and set the speakers on something in every new apt without drilling holes in the walls was getting really old. Not to mention moving the darn things (I had a full amplifier with 4 largish bookshelfs and a real center channel). The Mainstage is like a cathartic release. It makes acceptable sound, it's tiny, it's self-powered. And in a typical installation (non-PJ), it should be a three wire hookup (sub, signal, power).


FWIW, I love the idea of the Niro, but dropping a grand was out of the Q.


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## soundmax

dc_pilgrim and/or mczolton,


Just got the Binaura set up and tested for a few minutes with Master and Commander. So far sounds great. The build quality is quite solid and the set up literally taking a few minutes.


Since you have more experience with the system, can you tell me if you have made volume adjustments to the sub and centre channel? I realize these adjustments are very subjective but just the same I'm curious.


Thanks


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soundmax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dc_pilgrim and/or mczolton,
> 
> 
> Just got the Binaura set up and tested for a few minutes with Master and Commander. So far sounds great. The build quality is quite solid and the set up literally taking a few minutes.
> 
> 
> Since you have more experience with the system, can you tell me if you have made volume adjustments to the sub and centre channel? I realize these adjustments are very subjective but just the same I'm curious.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Depending on where you place your sub, you may need to make adjustments. My sub is behind my display, in a corner. For DD sources, I set the sub to +1 (center at 0). For Binaura Vocal I set the sub to -5. I used an SPL meter and a calibration DVD to balance the level of the sub with respect to the main speaker unit.


Mark


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## sv_chamelea

Sure do appreciate all the valuable experience posted here. Personal comparisons between different audio manufacturers - amazingly valuable!


My viewing room is 15' square, 10' sloped volume ceiling, with an openly adjacent 8' dining area. It's was a hassle to mount and wire my old Lifestyle 12 Bose, which went silent (amp/sub problem) anyhow before I embedded wiring. I've reached a tentative conclusion the Binaura will provide a perfectly acceptable alternative for me.


But the units are few & far between. Is this a new company still lacking in distribution? ... and what is a reasonable street price?


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## soundmax

mczolton,


Thanks for the reply. I'll tweak mine over the next few days. I have not hooked up the TV though at this point. Sticking to DVD for now.


sv_chamelea,


I agree, excellent posts. They helped in my decision.


The website http://www.binaura.com/index2.htm says they were incorporated in 2002. I got mine from Best Buy $399 $CDN on sale from the $599 regular price. Web special only. I did find an electronics store that had them in stock so I was able to see and touch the unit in person. This also helped with my decision as I could see that it had a sturdy build quality. I also saw a unit for sale on eBay but I was/am a little concerned about warranty and recourse should the unit become defective. This is why I went with a Best Buy type company. Hope this helps.


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## dc_pilgrim

Some guy sells them on e-bay for a bit more than $300 shipped. I think Target.com has them for MSRP (they often have 10% off coupons lately too). BB.com (USA) used to carry them, and Mark and I got them on their "Wednesday" sale for $280 shipped with tax (or at least thats what I paid). I was tenative buying, and appreciated having the return policy.


I think the company has an agreement with some other odd named distribution company too (for MSRP).


Soundmax - - I am kind of a basic user with this thing. Its jammed behind furniture, and our power goes out pretty often. So I just run it as it turns on, and adjust by ear while I watch, depending what I watch. I have the SPL meter and AVIA, but haven't bothered with it. I usually am bumping up the center channel since I want to emphasis hearing the dialog. I bump the sub on the rare times I am watching an action movie and I am not worried about waking the baby. Doesn't happen very often.


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## dc_pilgrim

Oh, I think they are a CA company, too - - so maybe you can contact them directly and try to get them to sell you one.


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## LCD

the niro reference and movie mouse i ordered were supposed to arrive today. childishly, i actually took the day off waiting for them which just mad me angrier. the movie mouse arrived, but UPS left it on my doorstep without ringing the doorbell. i found it out there two hours after they had dropped it off. the reference did not arrive. of course when i called them up they told me the driver had made an attempt to deliver, which was a lie because i didn't leave the house all day. no yellow sticker was left on the door.


ANYway. the movie mouse is a lot bigger than i thought it would be. it also bothers me a little bit that it is made in china. for something so expensive i was hoping for another manufacturing destination. the casing is made of relatively heavy plastic with metal grilles over the drivers. it definitely doesn't feel like something one would pay $229 (manufacturer direct price) for. will post a full review of the movie mouse and the reference, if i ever receive it!


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## soundmax

Yes they are a CA company, this was taken from there site for sales and marketing:


23 Oak Road, Santa Cruz , CA 95060

Tel: 831-426-4244


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## LCD

Dave, Ximori and Forum members,


If you couldn't tell I was anal before this post, you'll know for sure by the end of the first paragraph! I'm completely new at review writing, so please forgive my rambling and lack of technical knowledge.


The Movie Mouse box came in a larger box filled with styrofoam peanuts. Unfortunately, they put the Mouse box on the bottom of the box full of peanuts, so the shock absorption at the base was non-existent. The Mouse unit seems to be a sturdy thing and appears none the worse for wear. Inside the Mouse box are two styrofoam holders keeping it in place. It was wrapped in a thin foam bag. Two pieces of tape are supposed to hold the bag shut tightly. One piece of tape was already half way rolled off and not keeping the bag shut. There are a couple of scuff marks on the shell of the Mouse that I was able remove with a bit of effort and a damp towel. There is a miniscule chip in the base. This is making me paranoid that I have received a unit that was returned by someone else.


The Reference unit came in a large box stamped "Made in China" with four separate boxes inside of it. The instructions and warranty came in a ziploc bag thrown on top. The instruction booklet had a big crease diagonally down the front page. For a $1k piece of hardware the presentation so far left a lot to be desired. One of the boxes was empty, used just as a placeholder for the rest. The amplifier, subwoofer and speaker unit each had their own separate box. Each cable for each unit cannot be removed and was bound up using saran wrap. As soon as I took the subwoofer out of its styrofoam holders and plastic bag, the cloth grille fell off. I tried to put it back on the driver only to see that two of the plastic pegs had broken and were now stuck inside their respective holes on the rim of the woofer driver. Inauspicious.


The remote uses 3 AAA batteries which are included. It is made in Korea. There is a sticker that is laid out over the main button grid that has the button names labelled on it. The sticker has a faint grey slash down the middle that I don't think is supposed to be there. There are also two areas on the the side where the sticker was not laid down entirely flat and now bubbles away from the remote.


The subwoofer looks very nice but feels extremely light for its size. It is 11.7(W) x 12.9(H) x 11.7(D) in. My GMX A2.1 woofer is about 10x10x16 and seems to weigh much more.


The speaker unit is fairly heavy and has a solid plastic shell. It feels substantial. There is some discoloration of the plastic where the cable meets the unit. The plastic grilles covering the drivers feel somewhat cheap.


The amplifier has a very good fit and finish. It is the only part of the package that looks AND feels expensive.


The Reference is extremely easy to hook up. Plug in the amp, plug the subwoofer and speakers into the amp, plug your optical cable in one of the slots and you're all set. I had it hooked up to an Xbox with the optical out (sorry Ximori, no coaxial option!).


I haven't had much time to test the audio capabilities of the unit yet. I listened to a couple of CDs (Getz/Gilberto, Diana Krall, Cowboy Junkies). The Reference sounded a lot better than my GMXs. The soundstage was much wider, the voices and instruments much more prominent and distinct from each other. I also played some Halo 2 and DOA Ultimate. The sound was incredible, although I did notice some distortion (clipping?) with certain female voices (Lei-fang, Cortana). It almost seemed like the microphone got too close to the actor's mouth and there was some feedback or something. I put some headphones on to see if I could duplicate the feedback, but could not. I noticed more surround effects with the games than with the movies I tested out.


I watched a little bit of Lost in Translation. The sound of water splashing seems to be extremely sibilant in all the movies I watched. The scenes when Bill Murray and Scarlett Johansson meet in the bar had the best surround effects. I felt as if I was there in the bar with them. The clink of glasses and tinkle of utensils was very apparent all around. I followed that up with The Return of the King. The best effect I recall from my time with the film was when a nazgul carrying the Witch King flew across the screen. Most of the movie sounds remained in front of me however. As every reviewer of the Reference has stated, at no time did I really hear any sounds behind me or even directly to my sides.


The subwoofer is many times better than my GMX sub. It blends in very well with the speakers and is truly multidirectional. I believe that indicates that the full range speaker unit has a fairly low crossover. With my GMXs, the satellites don't go very low so I can actually pinpoint the sound coming from the sub.


The Movie Mouse works as advertised, but upon initial testing I can't really recommend the purchase. To get a good effect from it, the volume has to be fairly loud. I'm not sure in what situations I would want to use it over the main speaker unit. I purchased it because I have a two-year old son sleeping upstairs at night.


To sum up, the Reference is the best sounding piece of audio gear I have ever owned. In both movies and music I noticed many nuances in the audio that I was not able to discern with my old setup. However, the surround effects were a bit underwhelming, but maybe my expectations were too high. I have no idea what a real 5.1 setup sounds like. The stereo performance is also the best I have ever heard, but at no time did I ever feel like the performances were truly "real". The fit and finish of the components is somewhat disappointing and, again, I am bothered by the fact that this $1k+ piece of gear is entirely made in China. It may be an unfair bias on my part. Hopefully I will get in some more time with the unit over the weekend. I'll post some more thoughts later.


In the meantime, I wouldn't mind hearing a little bit more from some of you other Niro owners about your units. I'm feeling a little nervous about my purchase. Is it possible that the Reference is too powerful for the room I have it in? The living room is half of a 10'(H) by 11'(W) by 26'(L) space with the other half as a dining room. The Niro is along the 25' wall so it sits about 8 feet from my viewing area. Would the 600 actually sound better in my space? What are the consequences of too much power in too small a space?


----------



## grinchy

Seems like if it's too powerful you can turn the volume down. . . Power is really good to highlight dynamic elements, I don't use my equipment at max (or even high volume). But then again, Mainstage original is only rated at 95 db, it isn't "powerful".


Thanks for the thorough review. You have to believe your ears, and it "sounds" like the unit sounds expensive.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

LCD -


Appreciate the review. Funny, I spent a bunch of time talking about the packaging in my amatuer review. Of course, my perspective was from the opposite end since I found the Binaura well packaged. The Binaura didn't do much for a rear soundstage either. I think the Yamaha is the only one who can manage that bit of wizardry (in the right room). Sounds like the Niro is pretty impressive for what it does though.


Reading your review, I guess the magic question is determining value for money. I think Ximori and Mark are the only ones to evaluate these products on a comparative basis.


Keep us posted if your thoughts evolve.


----------



## MoltenLava

I was in the market for a single speaker HTIB system. I've considered Soundmatter, Binaura, Yamaha YSP, and Niro. Decided on Niro, as I liked the Nakamichi history, it's got five discrete speakers, and "more expensive must be better" reasoning.


I thought the sound quality was a-OK. Nothing spectacular, but had good frequency range, clear dialog, and decent bass.


Getting good surround sound was tricky. Contrary to what you might think, the placement of the speaker is VERY important. If the speaker is placed below your ear, you won't hear any, or very little surround effect. It must be place at or above your ear level. The distance from the speaker was also a factor in my experience. At around 3-5 feet from the speaker, you can hear sound seemingly coming from far left and far right, off the screen and the speaker. If you sit further out, the effect diminishes. I never heard sound coming from the behind at any distance.


From my sitting distance, about 10ft away from the screen, I really could not hear much improvement over the display's built in speaker in virtual surround mode. It may sound a little funny, but I am more and more impressed by the built in speaker on my Sony XBR PDP. It would be a waste to turn off the TV speaker after my HT project is complete.


After about a week of tinkering, I have returned the Niro. Return process was very easy and straightforward, no questions asked.


Now I am back looking at the receiver + dedicated surround speaker system. I haven't completely given up on the one speaker solution, as I am considering Mirage UNI-Theater speaker with LCR in one cabinet design.







I'll still have to figure out where to place the surround speakers.


----------



## MoltenLava

By the way this was for Niro 600 in a large room of size 16 x 32 with 14' vaulted ceiling. The size of listening area is about 16 x 16. I didn't have any problem with shortage of power, but the volume never exceeded a moderate level.


----------



## renglade

I have been trying out the new Mainstage HD (no separate sub) for two weeks now. I have it placed it on top of a 34XBR960 in one corner of a small 10x12 room with a 7 1/2 foot ceiling. Drawing a diagonal from the XBR corner to the opposite corner and looking back toward the TV, there are two seating areas - a couch to the right of the diagonal that sits along a 10 foot wall, and a recliner to the left that is in the center of a 12 foot wall. The Mainstage has a miniplug output that can be used to feed the rear channels of Dolby Digital 5.1 to a set of powered speakers, and I have placed one satellite behind the recliner and another behind the right portion of the couch, both on the floor and pointing upward.


The ability to get actual surround is probably the biggest asset of this setup, and the most realistic effect is experienced by someone seated on the left side of the couch, nearest the diagonal. I have noticed, however, that most supposedly 5.1 programming actually contains little if any surround material, the exceptions being certain football games and action movies.


The biggest drawback of the Mainstage, IMO, is poor tonal balance at the (relatively low) volume levels that are optimal for this small listening environment. Even with the bass adjustment at its minimum level (no indicator, by the way), the treble frequencies are overwhelmed by boomy low tones. The balance improves at volumes that are unfortunately too high for comfort. It's almost as if a poorly calibrated loudness compensation scheme is being implemented. One solution that I have hit upon is to mix the sound from the 960's internal speakers (more treble) with that from the Mainstage, and appropriately adjust the amplification of the rear channels (separate control). This seems to work ok, but in the end a return of this $350 item may be in order.


----------



## LCD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LCD -
> 
> 
> Appreciate the review. Funny, I spent a bunch of time talking about the packaging in my amatuer review. Of course, my perspective was from the opposite end since I found the Binaura well packaged. The Binaura didn't do much for a rear soundstage either. I think the Yamaha is the only one who can manage that bit of wizardry (in the right room). Sounds like the Niro is pretty impressive for what it does though.
> 
> 
> Reading your review, I guess the magic question is determining value for money. I think Ximori and Mark are the only ones to evaluate these products on a comparative basis.
> 
> 
> Keep us posted if your thoughts evolve.



I've been intensively, if not obssessively (just ask my wife!) evaluating the system since it has arrived. Unfortunately, with my duties at work and as a father, I haven't been able to devote large chunks of time to this engaging pursuit. It has taught me quite a bit about critical listening. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing! Any tips, corrections or comments from the audiophiles here regarding review techniques or vocabulary are appreciated! I don't think I was entirely fair with the system when it arrived. I was hoping to be knocked off my feet merely by plugging it in. I wanted to hear sounds from the far left and right of me with every source I fed the system even if that was not the intent of the original recording. With the passage of time I have really begun to appreciate the finer nuances of the system. I still have reservations, but it really is a fine bit of technology. I'm still not sure whether or not it is worth the price, which will determine whether or not I send it back.


I sent an email to Niro1.com regarding the cosmetic problems I've had with the device (broken subwoofer grille, remote control label peeling, discoloration on the back of the main speaker unit). They were prompt and courteous in their response. I received a phone call the next day. They were quite willing to send me a replacement subwoofer and I believe they are willing to replace the remote. I was told that the discoloration along the seams in the cable recess is an unavoidable part of the manufacturing process. Can any other Reference owners confirm that?



MOVIE MOUSE


I am far more impressed with the Movie Mouse now that I've had a bit more time with it. When I first used it, I didn't fiddle around with the subwoofer or bass settings at all. What I discovered was that to truly work the Mouse's magic, the bass and woofer settings had to be increased to compensate for the smaller drivers. Dialogue still lacked substance, but the sound environment was quite remarkable. In most cases the surround effects are superior to that of the main unit because the Mouse can be placed precisely where you want it to go. Placing it on the floor a foot or two from my feet gave the sounds from the Mouse more presence. Placing the unit on my lap close to my knees created a more immersive surround field at the cost of tinnier dialogue. For whatever reason, video game sources provided a much greater surround feeling than movie sources. The Movie Mouse plug is a very flimsy thing with delicate plastic latches which you are well advised to leave plugged into the amplifier.



MAIN SPEAKER


Listening to the Niro has been quite a revelation. Poor sources immediately betray themselves as such. Superior recordings are quite spectacular. Clarity and element (vocals, instruments) distinctions are superb. The Niro has many different sets of algorithms for two-channel listening. "Normal" is the original system configuration. It works pretty well. Voices are prominent and centered, although the soundstage seems somewhat reduced. "New Ver" provides a slightly broader soundstage at the expense of some "center" channel focus. There are a handful of Pro Logic algorithms as well. I didn't find them to be that useful. If you are in the mood for a particular artificial effect some of them will fit the bill. They either bring the vocals up front and center at the expense of completely collapsing the soundstage or they give the recording an broad echo-y feel where no individual elements feel anchored in space.


When I first played 'Revenge of the Sith' on the unit I was dismayed to hear extremely rare, but noticeable distortion in some words spoken by the actors (for the obssessive-compulsive out there, go to Chapter 7 and listen to Obi-Wan say the word "I'm" once Anakin leaves the ship. It breaks up a bit). Being worried that it was a fault of the Niro, I subsequently ran two copies of the DVD on three separate DVD players and four separate speaker systems. So, now I know DVDs aren't perfect.  While I haven't had the chance to watch an entire movie or listen to an entire CD on the system in one sitting, I can say that no matter how loud I've turned the system up (I've listened to it at close to 40 and it maxes out at 60), the sound quality has never gotten harsh or uncomfortable to listen to. The subwoofer is excellent until you go out of its useful range. I'm not sure how to articulate that thought more effectively. With it's small size and unusually light weight I'm not surprised however.


Evaluating the system's surround capabilities continues to be a little confusing for me. Sometimes, but less often than I would like, there are moments of genuine excitement when I actually feel something in the room with me. Most of the time, the "surround" sound is forward room-filling but difficult to localize.


MoltenLava, thanks for your input! I'm going to try sitting closer to the unit, which would be more comfortable for me anyway, since my TV isn't very large. I was trying to maintain an 8-foot distance because the documentation with the unit stated optimal listening distances of 6.5-10 feet.


In deciding whether or not to return the system, I think my biggest problem is that I have no idea what a real 5.1 system sounds like. If I had a point of comparison, my decision would be much easier. If I felt the Niro sounded closer to a 2.1 system than a 5.1 I would return it and invest in some bookshelf speakers, a proper sub and a decent amp for $1000. If the Niro sounded closer to the 5.1 I'd keep it.


One other concern that I have is the fact that the system (not to beat a dead horse) is entirely made in China. Unless there have been massive commercial/manufacturing changes that I am unaware of, the reason people invest in factories in China is to build stuff cheaply (paying very little for labor). Fairly or not, that has led to a reputation for cheap, unsophisticated goods. The Niro warranty is 3 years on the speaker and 1 year on the electronics. I have not done extensive research on the competition, but I have seen warranties as long as 10 years on competing products.


----------



## soundmax

LCD,


Very detailed reviews, great job!


I'm quite happy with the Binaura. My expectation was not so much that I would hear 5.1 sound (although this is what all of these systems are touting) but something between crappy TV speakers and a true 5.1 system. I've only played a few DVD's so far on the new system. I do hear some rear sound, but of course depends on what is playing. Centre channel is clear and you can hear the highs like breaking glass very nicely. The sub does equally well. I can only compare it to my 5.1, so I had slightly lower expectations.


I have a dedicated Sony 5.1 - 600 watt system and I would challenge any 2 speaker system to provide the same soundstage. I don't think it's possible. With a 5.1 or higher, one is truly immersed in surround sound. Why don't you pop in to your local Best Buy or Circuit City or whatever and have them demonstrate a true 5.1.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

With my Binaura, and with the Cambridge offering that I heard in a store, I stand by my assessment that it is closer to a 3.1 experience. I can distinctly track a sound from the right side to the left (or vice-versa) but there isn't much from the rear. Maybe I am sittting too far away (7-10 feet) or its the corner set up.


The Yamaha, in a box of a room, really does create an envelope with rear sounds when I heard a demo in a store. If the YSP-800 was 50% cheaper I'd probably bring it home (with a good return policy) to test it out.


----------



## Ximori

LCD, nice review. I don't recall having any cosmetic issue w/ the Reference when I had it a couple of months ago. Maybe they gave you my returned unit














I'll admit though that my wife didn't like the looks of the Reference either. But I thought, otherwise, and found the looks quite acceptable.


When listening I toggle more on bass and lessen the treble to balance off into more natural dialogues. I also adjust surround mode to max level. Niro's selling point is the power and capability of revealing all the nuances from the source and making them more pronounced.


I once questioned the $1K tag. That was partly the reason for returning the system and opting instead for the release of the Mainstage. But having now heard most of them below that price tag, there was no contest in sound quality compared to Niro's. I'd rather spend twice the price for a system I know will enjoy rather than half the price for one considered just acceptable. Unfortunately, one speaker won't cut in achieving the sense of full 5.1 surround. If you can deal with the installation of 5 speakers in your room - then this would be really the way to go. Now supposing I have to stick close to the $500 budget then probably I might consider a pair of the new Classic NHT speakers, an inexpensive but good subwoofer, and use plasmatoad's info http://www.xitel.com/product_soundaround.htm (post #85) to create, at least, a 2.1. Unfortunately, I share grinchy's sentiment of running wires across the room so looking for the best 'plug and play' one speaker solution seem the right and only choice for my particular room.


Btw, thanks for mentioning Lost in Translation - I'm running out of some good reference DVDs. I remember this one as a good sampleand good movie to watch as well. Also, is it Stan Getz and Astrud Gilberto? Haven't listened to their music in a long time.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MoltenLava* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By the way this was for Niro 600 in a large room of size 16 x 32 with 14' vaulted ceiling. The size of listening area is about 16 x 16. I didn't have any problem with shortage of power, but the volume never exceeded a moderate level.



You must have relied on the their site for room space requirements but I'm not quite sure the Niro 600 is the proper choice for such a large room. The specs in the Reference and Pro II are much larger though so I presume there will be substantial differences in phasing and coherency, don't you think?


My search for that one speaker has been fulfilled by the Niro system. While the Yamaha remains to have the best surrounds it falls a tad short in sound quality, not up to Niro par level. Although Yamaha seem to be in the right direction w/ pushing for this type of technology. Niro should watch out once Yamaha improve the sound. I personally think Niro should, at least, try implementing dual speakers support for their next software upgrade. The Binaura also sounds like a very good competitor to test drive but it only consists 3 drivers of full amplification, compared to Niro's 5, and with much less horsepower. If I consider then, it'll be in competition with the Niro 600 at the same price level.


Btw, I was not all that impressed with the movie mouse. I guess I was expecting dialogues to sound bigger, like in the movies. Uh ok, I forgotthat's why it's called movie mouse.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With my Binaura, and with the Cambridge offering that I heard in a store, I stand by my assessment that it is closer to a 3.1 experience. I can distinctly track a sound from the right side to the left (or vice-versa) but there isn't much from the rear. Maybe I am sittting too far away (7-10 feet) or its the corner set up.



I can distinctly track left and right surrounds with my Niro but a lot of these one speaker solutions strictly rely on room acoustic, placement, listening distance, effective reference material, and so on. That's why I can never come up to one single and final conclusion b/c we all have different settingsand EARS!!!










I've been extremely busy and have not had time to fully preview the Pro II. I received it on Thursday but only spent like an hour listening last night. Man, I'm in the wrong business (coffee).


----------



## LCD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ximori* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LCD, nice review. I don't recall having any cosmetic issue w/ the Reference when I had it a couple of months ago. Maybe they gave you my returned unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll admit though that my wife didn't like the looks of the Reference either. But I thought, otherwise, and found the looks quite acceptable.
> 
> 
> When listening I toggle more on bass and lessen the treble to balance off into more natural dialogues. I also adjust surround mode to max level. Niro's selling point is the power and capability of revealing all the nuances from the source and making them more pronounced.
> 
> 
> I once questioned the $1K tag. That was partly the reason for returning the system and opting instead for the release of the Mainstage. But having now heard most of them below that price tag, there was no contest in sound quality compared to Niro's. I'd rather spend twice the price for a system I know will enjoy rather than half the price for one considered just acceptable. Unfortunately, one speaker won't cut in achieving the sense of full 5.1 surround. If you can deal with the installation of 5 speakers in your room - then this would be really the way to go. Now supposing I have to stick close to the $500 budget then probably I might consider a pair of the new Classic NHT speakers, an inexpensive but good subwoofer, and use plasmatoad's info http://www.xitel.com/product_soundaround.htm (post #85) to create, at least, a 2.1. Unfortunately, I share grinchy's sentiment of running wires across the room so looking for the best 'plug and play' one speaker solution seem the right and only choice for my particular room.
> 
> 
> Btw, thanks for mentioning Lost in Translation - I'm running out of some good reference DVDs. I remember this one as a good sampleand good movie to watch as well. Also, is it Stan Getz and Astrud Gilberto? Haven't listened to their music in a long time.



hi ximori,


surprisingly, 'lost in translation' is one of the dvds i've enjoyed most with the system. the quiet ambience (sounds of the city, the bar, the traffic, etc.) of most of the scenes is very immersive with the niro. on the other side of the spectrum, i knew the audio for the scarface (with al pacino) dvd was bad, but the niro truly reveals every ugly blemish. scarface sounded better on my old setup.


getz/gilberto is the name of the album, the performers are stan getz, joao gilberto, astrud gilberto and antonio carlos jobim. the album sounds incredible on the niro.


i haven't had a problem with the aesthetic styling of the niro, i've had a problem with the level of polish. for a $1090 piece of hardware i was expecting impeccable fit and finish. the decal peeling off of the remote just makes it seem really cheap. the insignificant physical weight of the sub (not that i know anything about subwoofer construction, maybe heavier isn't necessarily better?) and the blemishes on the back of the main speaker just make me wonder about the quality control the system was subjected to and its eventual longevity.


i am definitely not expecting "true" 5.1 sound from the niro. i realize that because i don't want speakers and wires all over the room, certain sonic compromises must be made. right now, i think that if the system had cost me $500-$600 there is no question i would keep it and not think twice about the price. at $1090 i'm on shaky ground. i appreciate the conversation we're having about the systems. please let us know how the pro II compares to the reference when you've had enough time with it!


i was considering the yamaha and kef systems as well, but from what i've read they rely on bouncing sound off of walls while the niro supposedly does not. my living room makes sound reflecting systems an impossibility. i thought about the denon, but the lack of a dvd player in the niro was actually a selling point for me. i already have a dvd player and i don't have a hd display, so i didn't feel like paying for something i wouldn't get full use out of. this is assuming of course, that the extra cost of the niro was put into maximizing its sonic capabilities.


again, i am really enjoying my time with the system, i just haven't decided whether or not i'm happy with the price.


by the way, anyone have any idea how the niro creates a stereo sound field with the l/r channels facing out 90 degrees from the listener? it makes absolutely no sense to me when i look at it!


soundmax - i went to best buy yesterday to try and test out some 5.1s. it didn't work out too well. it's too loud in there and they don't have a decent space for listening. i've got to find another option! definitely on my to do list before my 30-day niro trial is up. wish i knew someone with a 5.1 setup.


----------



## grinchy

Renglade - I have the Mainstage non HD and the bass is not boomy. Wonder if it's the unit? In fact, if I dial mine down all the way it sounds very thin. It could well be that the HD with the 2x amp power of the Mainstage might be unbalanced.


Where does the signal originate? Perhaps the output you are using has the "bass" control already turned up?


----------



## renglade

Grinchy,


In my post of 1/30, the observation of over-emphasized bass was really a complaint about lack of treble at the low volume levels that I was using in my rather small room (The Mainstage doesn't have a visual volume indicator, but if I turn it off and use the internal TV speakers instead, the volume level of the Sony for comfortable listening is about 11 out of 63). Also, the bass control on the HD is operated via the remote and has a limited range - not too high and not too low. The original Mainstage that you own has the base control on the speaker unit, and it can apparently be turned all the way down to zero. I noticed the tonal "imbalance" on a variety of sources - OTA, cable, DVD - and under various conditions - surround on or off, unit above the TV or below or on a side table away from the corner. In the end, the overriding factor seems to be volume level -higher values allow the treble to "breathe". It also helps to have the speaker angled towards the listener's head.


Interestingly enough, in talking with the folks at Soundmatters, it seems that most complaints about the new model have been the opposite of mine - treble too high and/or harsh, and bass too low. No info about volume effects.


I still have hope for this unit, and I think that I could adjust to a slightly higher volume level in order to get the benefits of surround sound (when it is offered!) and quality reproduction. The real problem is my wife and visitors! Perhaps two modes of operation are required - Mainstage sound for me alone, and TV speakers and reduced volume for others.


----------



## DTH938

In my quest to find a virtual home theater I've come across this web site and specifically this post. It's full of great input, and I would like to thank everyone who has added to it. Because of the room it's going in, I think I have narrowed it down to a Niro system. Right now I'm leaning toward the Niro 600. Has anyone listened to both it and the higher end models. Is the Reference or the 1.1Pro worth the extra money? Thanks for any input.


----------



## grinchy

Renglade, I didn't know that the HD has the handy "bass control" knob removed, that's a bummer, of course it makes sense, as they've gone to multifunction buttons on the unit front.


Still, if soundmatters finds your experience unusual, you might push for a new unit. And it would give you a chance to try out the two unit surround while you have two on hand.


My mainstage was harsh for the first 30 hours (see first review, above), but now the sound is neutral.


----------



## TCB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am actually going to be fiddling with my unit tonight (or thursday), I'll try remember to measure it, and take a picture.



Oh, man! What you do at home is your business, but please don't post the picture here!


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TCB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, man! What you do at home is your business, but please don't post the picture here!




You weren't curious on some level when it measured out to be 6 feet long?


----------



## TCB

Ugh, no.


----------



## grinchy

I sold my five HT speakers and Amp to some lucky sole on Craigslist yesterday. $300 in good 2000 money (and I searched high and low for bargains back then) for $70. I hated to part most with the DTS/DD Sherwood 6095R Amp, but no component/hdmi switching and 60 wpc isn't going to cut it in today's world.

But hey, progress is less, not more, isn't that what they say?

So now I'm commited to the 1.1 (MAINstage and Sony wx-700 sub).


I am glad to be rid of the large stack of speakers cluttering up the second bedroom.


----------



## TCB

grinchy,

I'm looking for a 2.1 or, perhaps, 1.1 setup. Can you tell me more about your decision? I have auditioned the Denon S-301 and like it. I could get one for a little more than $1000.


----------



## grinchy

Well, that Denon looks very nice. A bit beyond my chosen budget. It's in the same price range as the well reviewed Niro products (see Ximori's extensive comparison).


I ended up with 1.1 because my PJ multipurpose room has a fireplace on one wall and a huge long window on the other. No good place to mount speakers, and its an apt. anyway. I'm tired of wires and all the rest, too. Seems like we get so much stuff, sometimes it's good to divest a little.


My previous setup was not high budget or anything, though it sounded fine. So I had little audio superiority to lose.


I got a refurb MAINstage, mostly because it had two digital inputs (zvox out), and I didn't need the volume of the HD (though I really think the HD channel switching for surround is awesome, easy to do with a MAINstage via analog, of course, but not possible for digital - that's a very cool feature, for one who decides to upgrade to a 6.1 setup.)


So the A/B with the Mainstage and my existing setup was a wash, mostly, no big difference at the levels I can listen at. They sounded nearly identical, actually. My old system had 2 of the 3 front speakers on the floor (no where else to put them).


It images fine for movies, lots of soundstage for the front. I actually think it does a good job at this. No real rear "surround" effect. Music is less impressive, but certainly clearly reproduced. It isn't "stereo", and from your picture you'll probably miss stereo. Never know 'til you try though.


The Mainstage retails for $249, and the refurb is abit more than 1/2 that.


I spent a lot of time looking for a sub, and had convinced myself that a Rhytmik DIY servo kit was the answer. And I think it still is, but it's $500 (pre-built box) plus build time, and that was too much for me. So I ran across the wx-700 reviews at CC while I was checking out a flat sub there (was looking for a sub-stage clone), and they were so positive I thought I'd go listen to it. So I did, and it was good. It stood out like a sore thumb in the big old listening room - deep, clean, clear, just like a sealed sub (which it is). No chuffing or booming. And at $225 an irrestible price. My tone CD says it will do 25hz with the boost on, 30hz without it. That's good enough, and great for the price range. I'm getting well acquainted with my neighbors as a side benefit, too.


So the two do fine together, in 1.1. One digital input cable, one sub-out cable. Both autopower on and off. Sounds good. I'm out about $420 with cables and tax. That's Binaura range, but I think my sub is a bit more sturdy







Perhaps the Binaura will image better - I think Ximori has tried both.


The Mainstage by itself is a good video sound system, I use it sans sub anytime after 9 pm, and dialog is clear, even at low levels, something my old 5.1 was decidedly not good at. With the sub it is very good for movies, lots of impact, and still easy to hear what is really going on.


I looked and listened to a lot of subs in retail stores, and was going to build a DIY sonotube ported for a while before I found out about Rhythmik sealed, was sure that the teens was for me, but really, in an apt. it's a bad idea. I think the sub makes a huge difference for movies, and would not advise skimping in this area.


----------



## TCB

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Grinchy.


Anyone else? I found a KEF KIT-100 (2.1 system) for a steal. I might go that direction. Any thoughts?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

To my mind, based on reading, not listening - the KEF and the Denon are probably the best bets for people who want music in the mix - - mostly because they are 2.1. The Denon is a newer product offering, so its a bit more updated (HDMI and i-pod integration being the the first things to come to mind, not sure if the virtual dolby is an asset or just another way to skin a cat). KEF has a good reputation, moreso in the UK, I believe.


To continue the thought process, for a heavy emphasis on movies, I think in the right room the yamaha ysp-1000/800+sub is the best answer for a rectangular room, and the niro probably the best in a more open layout. After that, you get into the more budget (well less than $1k, sometimes dramatically) driven contenders such as the binaura, mainstage (HD?)+ sub, Zvox(+sub), etc. I think the Polk and maybe the M&K are even smaller niche products for people who want to continue to use an existing receiver.


I would love to see some member commentary on KEF, and maybe those sherwoods. What's the return policy on your "steal"?


----------



## TCB

The return policy would be 30 days. I honestly don't think I could find a better deal on any system than what I potentially have for this KEF.


----------



## grinchy

I have to say I'm intrigued the by Yamaha 800. Not $600 intrigued, but maybe when it's available used I'll take a look at it.


----------



## clintroberts

I purchased the Fullstage HD about a month ago. I have been a long time owner of the regular Mainstage but sold it to get the MainstageHD. I had to try out the sub so I went with the Fullstage. Since I sold my home about a year ago the Mainstage has been my primary listening system. I travel back and forth between Roatan Honduras and TX so I needed something that would fit in the suitcase/carry-on along with my projector. I liked the Mainstage but had difficulty hearing some voices on some DVD's. It was weird how some were fine and other movies were not. Add a movie with accents and forget it, very frustrating. I like the MainstageHD for the dialog control and bass control ON the remote. The HD does seem clearer to me and I think it is worth the upgrade just for the on the remote extra functions. When I sold my house I went from a 7.1 Onix Rocket system to this. Well it can't compare but after 3 minutes I forget and watch the movie. I have in the place I am staying a Denon 3805 and Onix Ref Ones. Honestly like before I forget which one I am watching after a few minutes. If I owned a home and wasn't on the move and didn't want to run speaker wire I think I would for the money just get a 2.1 with receiver setup. But if you are on the move like me the Mainstage packs easily. It's also nice when I take the "theater" to a friend's house. With my Dalite Instatheater, 700AE projector, a 700m laptop, MainstageHD amd a few cables it's a real nice portable system.


----------



## TCB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clintroberts* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I travel back and forth between Roatan Honduras and TX...



Roatan? NICE! I went scuba diving there in the late 70s with my family (I was a teenager). In fact, I'm thinking of taking my wife and children there next Christmas (perhaps staying at Anthony's Key Resort). What brings you to Roatan?


----------



## TCB

Okay, I just purchased the KEF KIT-100 system. I am unpacking the boxes now. This will be mated with my XBR960N (upstairs tv).


Price? $396!!!


I'm stunned. They were closing out KEF products at Ultimate Electronics. I saw a post online about it and called about the KEF system. I'll post my observations soon...


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Nice price. Can't see how you'll be able to complain at that price. Could probably make a nice return on e-bay if you cleared the rest of the inventory.


----------



## d-v-c




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TCB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have auditioned the Denon S-301 and like it. I could get one for a little more than $1000.



This is the system I want, but with floor stands and iPod, it becomes way too expensive.


But, at $1000 I would go for it in a second. Can you tell me where to get it?


-------


Does anyone know of any receivers that include Virtual Dolby logic? One of these with a pair of SVS and a sub would be a great option to the Denon.


----------



## TCB

d-v-c,

The price I managed to get (but passed on) at Best Buy was $1040. There was an open box unit for $1299 and I found an old 30% off coupon for Best Buy open box products on the web. I asked if they would still accept it even though it experied in July 05. They said they would give me an additional 10% off the open box. I countered with 20% and they said they'd go for it.


I am amazed at how great the discounts can be if you are willing to barter a bit. I'm never a jerk about it, either. I just talk to the people.


----------



## cathor

d-v-c:


The Kenwood VRS7100 has Dolby Virtual Speaker (+Dolby Headphone). I use it with a couple of Omnisats and an Omni S8 subwoofer. I've also used it with Axiom M22ti's and Axiom M3ti's + a SVS 25-31 CS+ sub. For output the SVS can't be beat, but the S8 is fine for my purposes (bedroom system). Although I really like the Axiom's I prefer the Omnisat's for HT - especially when combined with Dolby Virtual Speaker.


I also own the Zvox, and Dolby Virtual Speaker with the Omni's is definitely a significant step up.


A 2.1 setup with Omnisats, S8 subwoofer and the VRS7100 can be found for less than $700 - I think this is a better HT system than the 301.


If size and cost is no issue, exchanging the S8 with a SVS, Omni S12 or Hsu STF/VTF 2 will give you a fantastic 2.1 set-up for less than $1,000


----------



## LCD

well, the niro reference had to go back. mostly because i got laid off this week, but also because of the build quality. still, i was sad to see it go. my wife encouraged me to keep it if i liked it, so i must thank her for that. i can't say that i'm entirely pleased with the 30-day "free" trial, since it cost me almost $100 in shipping charges.


it is possible that i just somehow received a lemon, but with multiple components having minor issues, i'm not so sure. by the time i sent it back this was the list of damages, most of which were apparent when i received the unit:


main speaker unit - discolored plastic finish in the cable recess area (rear of unit)

movie mouse - small chip in the base, one of the black plastic feet fell off (cheap glue)

remote - peeling button label

subwoofer - damaged grille (could no longer be mounted on the driver frame), large piece of plastic rolling around loose inside the subwoofer chamber (my guess is it is the plastic vent leading to the bottom port)


the performance of the niro was quite good and i had grown fond of it by the time i had to return it, but the build quality vs. price ratio in my experience was atrocious. i did like the design of the product enough that i might be foolish enough to order another one when i am working again, but i hope something else catches my eye before then!


i am now browsing satellite speakers, subwoofers and receivers for a 2.1 or 3.1 setup (not serious about buying, of course. thanks cathor for planting the seed...i think!). anyone know where i can find a list of small surround receivers? must they all be gigantic? the size of the niro was one of the things i liked very much about it.


it's funny. when i first joined the forum i was in the market for a 37" lcd television. i swore i was going to buy an aquos when the price hit $2000. that desire morphed into a 42" plasma into a 50" plasma into "i'm going to wait for SED". somehow i ended up in the audio section and before i knew it, the niro was sitting in my living room. and now, i'm back where i started, owning nothing except my 10-year-old 27" sony trinitron. ah, probably for the best!


good luck to everyone on their home theater odysseys!


----------



## grinchy

Wow, for $1000 that is atrocious. Makes me glad I didn't try it out, though I'm sure it beats the old Mainstage. Good luck with the job hunt. Economy is better now that a couple years ago, that's for sure.

Sounds like TCB got a good 2.1 option, looking forward to his review.

Keep on looking for the HD compatible display, it'll change your video life. Much bigger upgrade than audio IMHO.


----------



## LCD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grinchy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, for $1000 that is atrocious. Makes me glad I didn't try it out, though I'm sure it beats the old Mainstage. Good luck with the job hunt. Economy is better now that a couple years ago, that's for sure.
> 
> Sounds like TCB got a good 2.1 option, looking forward to his review.
> 
> Keep on looking for the HD compatible display, it'll change your video life. Much bigger upgrade than audio IMHO.



grinchy,


thanks for the luck! i'll need it. i would love to buy an hd compatible display, i just don't have the budget for what i'd like to buy, especially now. plus, the reports on SED from CES 2006 are making me quite content to wait for the new technology. i thought spending $1000 on the audio would be a nice fiscal compromise, particularly because i could enjoy it for music as well.


again, i can't emphasize enough how much i liked the idea, design, engineering and performance of the niro. if i received one that was in pristine condition i probably would have kept it. it's too bad that the entire thing is made in china, made mostly of plastic and lightweight materials and evidently went through lax quality control. it doesn't help that the warranty on it is subpar either.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I hear you about changing your mind. I went from wanting plasma to crt to front projection back to crt (for now). I also shot for in-walls, then when not feasible, we researched all these devices. Took about 8 months to pick one. A world of choices, huh?


Sorry about the job loss. Thanks for the reviews and comments on all the devices you tried.


----------



## TCB

Kef KIT-100


I've had the Kef KIT-100 for a few days now and will share some of my comments. One caveat, I am not an audio guy; I'm just an enthusiast who loves electronics. The KEF KIT-100 was purchased on clearance/open box from Ultimate Electronics in Roseville, Minnesota for $396 down from an MSRP of $1500. I sprung for an additional $200 to purchase the matching KEF speaker stands.


The system is quite hefty. The speakers are heavy little buggers as is the subwoofer. The subwoofer has a cool glass panel on the front. The whole system is quite stylish in a modern, urban way.


I am using the system with my brand new Sony XBR 960N. The Sony resides upstairs from our dedicated home theatre where I have a 7.1 surround system consisting of Klipsch Reference Series 7 speakers and a Sunfire True Signature Sub powered by the Pioneer Elite 49tx.


I wanted a 2.1 system because this is not my primary viewing area. If we are going to watch a movie, it'll be in the theatre. Nevertheless, I wanted sound worthy of the beautiful picture on the Sony XBR960N (the image on that television is unbelievable. I bought it for $1199 new, not open box).


I used Star Wars III as my test DVD. The picture looked great. I noticed no issues with the quality of the DVD through the KEF. This player does not upconvert like the Denon S-301. The video is sent out component. I wanted an upconverting player and have been impressed with the Denon; however, for under $400 for the whole system, I was not going to get hung up on that point. Furthermore, I thought the Denon was too pricey, especially in light of the new HD DVD players on the horizon.


I did a quick calibration of the system in the menu. Very simple. I discovered that I had the speakers reversed and fixed the problem. Then I had to shut everything down because my daughter was trying to fall asleep. A day later, I went back to work. The sound is wonderful. Does it equal my 7.1 setup downstairs. Heck no. But I didn't expect it would. The cool thing about the Kef system is that it is really a 4.1 system. The surrounds are panels on the side that are bounced off walls. Does it work? Kinda, I guess. I'll need more time with it to be convinced one way or the other.


Bass is really perfect for my room. The center channel sound (actually, approximated by the right and left speakers) makes for very intelligible, crisp dialogue. I appreciated that there are 3 digital inputs on this little system. One for cable, one for Xbox 360 and one for??? However, only one of the inputs was SPDIF. The rest were coaxial.


One selling point the Denon had going for it was Ipod connectivity. Of course, any system is able to be used with an Ipod. Just use a mini stereo to RCA adapter.


In some respects, this review is not worth the space it is taking up on the server because I can't tell you if it performs better than the Denon, Niro, Mainstage, etc. I can only compare it with the Denon and say that it is as good as the Denon audio-wise and nearly as good video-wise.


My advice to anyone with an Ultimate Electronics in their area is to go snatch one up for $396. Once I discovered that I could get this system for that price, I was sold. I first saw the KEF system at Best Buy a week ago for $899.


----------



## cathor

LCD - sorry to hear about the job loss. I went through that 5 years ago and while something better typically comes out of it it's still no fun. Thanks for the Niro review - I was thinking about going in that direction for a while, but couldn't justify the cost.


I really think 2.1 systems are a viable and superior alternative to the one box systems. A Kef Kit-100 for less than $400 is one of the best bargains I've seen in a while.


----------



## Ximori

LCD, you don't work for Oracle, do you? Anyhow, best wishes...


The Niro Pro II I recently got seem to be defective as the sound or dialogues in the center get distorted at moderate-high level. I remember not having this issue with the Ref...and gets quite annoying, at times. Although I would have preferred its warmer midrange compared to the Ref the distortion and lack of natural sound in the fronts though won't cut it for me.


So yesterday, I called customer service and asked an exchange for the Ref. I will be driving down to their warehouse on Monday to return the Pro II and get a new Ref. I hope they don't give me your returned Ref

















Kidding aside, now that you've heard the Ref it will be interesting to know which one you will eventually pick.


Again, hope things go well for you.


Dave and others, think front projection. It's portable and looking better every year, especially once the PS3 and blu-ray comes out - all designed for larger images to enjoy, which only pjs can bring.


----------



## grinchy

On FP, video is amazing, even in "low-def". I got a Hitachi Home-1 (WVGA) last year, and Olympic luge is looking good (OTA HD feed). The Mainstage is doing just fine as the sole audio source (plus sub, but it's off right now) for our 7 x 15 screen wall.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Oh, I definitely plan to do FP, but it probably won't be till 2007 at this point. We just had a baby girl and the disposable income isn't what it used to be. Need to bank a few bonuses before finishing the basement is a viable option. WAF limits most things in the existing living spaces (hence the binaura). I am content to wait, as my 4 month old daughter really doesn't leave me much time for tv and movies.


I am really impressed with that price on that KEF.


Cathor - - I think you made an interesting point about going with a virtual dolby receiver and some nice speakers. I think that is a viable option that some should consider.


Here is hoping that the quality improves and prices come down.


----------



## TCB

Hey Pilgrim (in psuedo-John Wayne voice),

Congrats on the baby girl!


Ultimate Electronics had an ad in the Sunday paper about the Kef clearance. It also announced 50% KEF speaker stands. Looks like I'm back to get another $100 off.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grinchy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On FP, video is amazing, even in "low-def". I got a Hitachi Home-1 (WVGA) last year, and Olympic luge is looking good (OTA HD feed). The Mainstage is doing just fine as the sole audio source (plus sub, but it's off right now) for our 7 x 15 screen wall.



I have a Sony Hs20 and thinking of upgrading this year. The nice thing about the Niro is how well the sound projects from that 106" sized image - feels like a real theatre.


----------



## grinchy

I finally got my RS db meter and REW working on my laptop using a cheap USB sound card from Fry's (too cheap, it's going back), but the numbers for the mainstage are pretty accurate, it was the sub freqs that the soundcard dropped off on.


Anyway, this is the Soundmatters Mainstage in my room. It sits on the floor and is angled at the seating area about 13 feet away. I'd say I have is on a 30 degree angle. The mic was pointed at about 45 degrees up, and this may have hurt measurements. Oh well, they're what I've got.


It isn't pretty. Lots of dropouts in the freqs. This was a 1/3rd octave sweep, and includes my sub response on the low end.


Now that I think about it, this is the response with the level set by the sub pink noise. I'll put up another one that is set correctly.


----------



## MoltenLava

Whoa. What is RS db meter? Does it generate frequency sweep tones, and measure the response? What equipments exactly do you need? I need something like that right now.


----------



## grinchy

REW = Room EQ Wizard, a freeware that does generate sweeps and measures the db response. Very cool.


RS db Meter = Radio Shack Sound SPL meter - $50 for digital version.


You also need a full duplex sound card.


The sound is generated on the line out, which is amplified etc. And then measured from the sound meter (it has an rca out) into the line in.


Lots of information on this over in the subwoofer threads.


----------



## MoltenLava

Thanks for the info. Do you really need the digital SPL meter, or can you connect a microphone to line in? I have the analog version. ugh.


----------



## grinchy

Any SPL meter (analog or digital) with output should work. A calibrated microphone would also work, though you'd need the cal table.


I simply bought the digital because they quit carrying the analog in stores. Some like one, others the other, but functionally the meters are equivalent.


----------



## MoltenLava

Thanks. BTW what kind of sub do you have? The freq response is amazingly flat between 30 and 100Hz even if the level is set incorrectly.


----------



## grinchy

Sealed dual 10" Sony wx-700. Read about it here - currently retailing below $300 before a $100 rebate (see CC).


----------



## LCD

thanks for the well wishes everyone! my last day of work was on tuesday. off to the great unknown...


ximori, my returned ref arrived at niro on the day you went to pick yours up. if your sub is rattling, it was mine.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cathor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> d-v-c:
> 
> 
> The Kenwood VRS7100 has Dolby Virtual Speaker (+Dolby Headphone). I use it with a couple of Omnisats and an Omni S8 subwoofer. I've also used it with Axiom M22ti's and Axiom M3ti's + a SVS 25-31 CS+ sub. For output the SVS can't be beat, but the S8 is fine for my purposes (bedroom system). Although I really like the Axiom's I prefer the Omnisat's for HT - especially when combined with Dolby Virtual Speaker.
> 
> 
> I also own the Zvox, and Dolby Virtual Speaker with the Omni's is definitely a significant step up.
> 
> 
> A 2.1 setup with Omnisats, S8 subwoofer and the VRS7100 can be found for less than $700 - I think this is a better HT system than the 301.
> 
> 
> If size and cost is no issue, exchanging the S8 with a SVS, Omni S12 or Hsu STF/VTF 2 will give you a fantastic 2.1 set-up for less than $1,000



How is that Kenwood treating you? I've been thinking about picking up a receiver with Dolby Virtual Speaker, but they seem to be hard to find. That, or manufacturers aren't listing it as a feature. Curiously, some of Onkyo's high end receivers have DVS, but if you spent that kind of money on an AVR, why use only two speakers?


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## LCD

mark,


i just ordered a kenwood vrs-7200, a pair of orbs and a super eight sub. the 7200 seems to be exactly like the 7100 except that it has binding posts for the front speakers instead of clips and it adds s-video inputs and outputs. there was an issue with the 7100's component video output that has supposedly been fixed in the 7200. on paper, the kenwood receivers look like a fantastic idea. i think they killed themselves marketing them as "gaming" receivers. based on what i've read they use the same TI chipset as the panasonic digital receivers. the only real minus i can see (having not tested it yet) is the fact that dvd-a and sacd users are left out in the cold (the kenwoods don't have 5.1 analog inputs). not an issue for me since i own nothing in either format. i am very excited about the dolby headphone and dolby virtual speaker features. i still have the niro sound fresh in my mind, so i'm eager to do a comparison. the whole setup is a couple hundred dollars less than the niro reference package.


i'm also curious about why there are very few receivers out there with dolby virtual speaker. personally, i really hate the idea of cluttering the living room with speakers to the sides of the couch, not to mention the wire runs. anyway, the denon s-301 and 101 implement dvs, so it can't be that ineffective, right (i hope)?


it took me forever to decide between the orbs + super eight and omnisats + S8. in the end, i bought the hype on orb audio's website. from what i've read, the super eight seems to be quite a sub. i liked the idea of the omnisats, but was worried about reviews stating you'd either love them or hate them for their more laid back, diffuse nature.


i'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LCD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i'm also curious about why there are very few receivers out there with dolby virtual speaker. personally, i really hate the idea of cluttering the living room with speakers to the sides of the couch, not to mention the wire runs. anyway, the denon s-301 and 101 implement dvs, so it can't be that ineffective, right (i hope)?
> 
> 
> it took me forever to decide between the orbs + super eight and omnisats + S8. in the end, i bought the hype on orb audio's website. from what i've read, the super eight seems to be quite a sub. i liked the idea of the omnisats, but was worried about reviews stating you'd either love them or hate them for their more laid back, diffuse nature.
> 
> 
> i'll let you know how it goes!



Thanks for the reply. I won't be using DVD-A or SACD so that isn't an issue for me either. I also read about the Omnisat (love them or hate them), and I am a little concerned that such a diffuse sound quality won't work for my situation - I only want to use two of them. I'll check out the Orbs - they are pretty cute










Mark


----------



## LCD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I won't be using DVD-A or SACD so that isn't an issue for me either. I also read about the Omnisat (love them or hate them), and I am a little concerned that such a diffuse sound quality won't work for my situation - I only want to use two of them. I'll check out the Orbs - they are pretty cute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark



so it starts anew. orb audio sent the system to me in two parts, the subwoofer through ups and the speakers, cables and wires through fedex. the subwoofer arrived on monday. the speakers were supposed to arrive on saturday. the fedex website reports that the delivery was made at 4pm. my wife and i were home all day and did not hear a knock on the door or the doorbell. not only that, but at 4:15 i was on my way out of the house and saw nothing on the front porch.


ANYway, on to my impressions of the sub. since i don't have anything to hook it up to, this is purely a appearance/build quality review. i hope i'm able to listen to it sometime soon.


the super eight is wrapped in a plastic bag and packaged in a box with styrofoam holders on the top and bottom. nothing protects the sides of the woofer from damage during shipping. in most cases, the subwoofer should not be in any danger as there is some empty space between the sides of the box and the sides of the sub. however, my box came with holes in it from who knows what. for a company that prides itself on sparing no expense, i'm a little disappointed there is no padding for the sides of the box. that said, i could detect no damage to the sides of the super eight.


the sub is made in china. for a company that plays up the fact that their speakers are handcrafted in the u.s.a. it is disappointing to me that they manufacture their sub in china. i hope someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but no company manufactures anything in china for the high quality labor. they move there for the cheap parts and for the cheap labor.


the first thing i noticed about the sub was the smell. this thing STINKS. the smell is coming from the rubber feet, which are made of some type of cheap industrial black rubber. the rubber is dense, but doesn't look like it has any kind of finish on it. the smell is strong enough to pervade my entire living room. if it doesn't fade soon i'll have to return the whole setup because of the odor. it's a gasonline/chemical-type odor. when i wipe the feet with a cloth, the cloth becomes black.


in my opinion the sub is pretty ugly. the finish seems to be of decent quality, but the textured flecks on the surface are not very attractive. i like the rounded corners. the grille on the front is not pretty. it's grey, but there is a reflective thread woven throughout the fabric that makes it look very...i'm not sure what the word i'm looking for is. the grille frame itself is made of a lightweight particleboard material that looks like it was dipped in tar and then not cleaned off very well. the grille fabric is glued to the round frame. the holes on the sub that the grille mounts onto have not been machined well. two of them are flush with the surface of the sub and blend in fairly well with the finish. the other two are raised and one seems to have been forced into place, its edges look crushed. on the top surface of the sub there is also a bump on the cabinet where it looks like a screw underneath was not screwed all the way in.


the back of the sub is different from the pictures they show on the website. the detachable power cord is gone. the sub now sports a connected cord. the various dials and switches have also been moved around a bit. apparently the price of the sub has been dropped $50 from earlier years. i wonder from what step of production the savings came from.


the dials and connectors appear to be of good quality. the sub itself is fairly heavy. it weighs close to 30 pounds, a far cry from the 11 pounds of the niro sub. the niro sub was by far more attractive. i even miss the little brass spikes.


so far, i'm not very happy. i can't understand why i'm having so many problems with more expensive audio gear. my klipsch gmx 2.1 setup is made up of cheap internals that are beginning to fail after three years of use. the fit and finish of the klipsch however, is impeccable. closed seams, no blemishes, quality material (even the plastic parts do not feel cheap) solid workmanship and appearance. of course, the most important thing about an audio setup is how it sounds, but can't there be a balance between build quality and performance?


what bothers me the most is that both niro and orb audio advertise themselves as direct to consumer companies who use no middlemen or advertising, thereby saving their resources for quality components and construction. my personal experience with each company so far has been quite subpar in terms of build quality. of course, i have yet to see the orb speakers.


i suppose the other possibility is that i'm just crazy, since it doesn't appear that anyone else has experienced these problems. or maybe normal people don't care.










i'll post a sonic review if i ever receive the speakers. if orb doesn't work out, i will give the omnisat setup a try. if THAT fails me, i'm going to buy a cheap setup up from logitech or similar company and be done with it. 


thanks for letting me vent!


----------



## mczolton

Ouch. I hope they sound better than they smell







I was looking into Orb, but after reading this, I'm not so sure. Maybe a different sub is in order?


Mark


----------



## LCD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ouch. I hope they sound better than they smell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking into Orb, but after reading this, I'm not so sure. Maybe a different sub is in order?
> 
> 
> Mark



mark,


i'm not sure you should use my experiences as relevant data! this is what i don't get though, universally, the reviews for niro and orb have been stellar. no professional reviews or forum reviews mention anything resembling the problems i've had. so, i must be either crazy or incredibly unlucky. however, i just can't see how i'm being unreasonable in my evaluations of fit, finish and build quality.


a lot of the orb reviews do parrot talking points from their website. i find that to be incredibly annoying in what are supposed to be unbiased professional reviews.


the living room still smells like a factory and i'm still waiting for the orb speakers.










to be continued...


----------



## jfkemd

Hello everyone.

I just found this site while researching a virtual surround sound system for my family room. I have a 15x15 feet room open to the kitchen with a 9 foot ceiling. I am looking for a sound system to pair with my 50 inch samsung dlp tv. The virtual surround system concept appeals to me because I am really not into too many wires, and want to keep the room as clutter-free as possible.

I am currently looking at the mainstage hd, binaura and yamaha ysp 800. I am also not considering buying a receiver and thus the above choices. Price is also a major factor.

What would you guys recommend would be worth my money and at the same time would produce the best results?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Post #3 list your options on the first page. With an open layout, the yamaha YSP line might not work well for you. All three of your choices are well discussed in this thread. I have a Binaura in an open layout, that I like well enough, but with full knowledge that it, and all of these "virtual" devices are compromises. Mostly aesthetics/convenience over performance (especially on the surround/stereo aspect).


If you are prepared to spend the $800 or so for the YSP-800, I'd also look at the Niro or perhaps the entry level Denon. A final option would be the kenwood vrs-7200, plus a pair of speakers+sub.


Welcome to the forum and good luck.


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A final option would be the kenwood vrs-7200, plus a pair of speakers+sub.



Keeping the price under $800.00, one could couple the Kenwood VRS-7200 or the Harmon Kardon AVR-240 (both of which feature Dolby Virtual Speaker) with a nice stereo speaker/sub setup. But what speakers to buy? Surely one can do better that the 3" drivers in most of these one (or two) box solutions.


Thoughts?


Mark


----------



## grinchy

jfkemd - My room is 15 x 20 x 8, with a large doorway and bar into the kitchen at the back of the room. I use the Mainstage (non-hd) ($170 refurb) and a low-budget sealed dual driver Sony wx-700 subwoofer ($220 - missed the $100 rebate by 2 weeks). For movies the audio of this system is quite satisfying. Dialogue is more clearly discernable than my old 5.1 setup, and soundstage l/r pans are quite convincing. For music less satisfying, though completely listenable. Volume is not a problem, it will get much louder than I would ever choose to watch at. There is little/no surround effect, but I haven't really missed it. Quite happy.


As a bonus, the mainstage is slim, and fits in the limited space I have below by painted wall screen (I usually watch a picture 7 feet tall).


----------



## Bert

For Ximori and others who have purchased the NIRO system: Don't know if you've checked their site lately, but the new Upgrade just came out. I'm almost certain I'm going to be ordering the module. I'm pretty happy with what I've got, but I'm really curious as to how they've improved on it, and it's only 15 bucks!


They've got some neat MP3 files you can listen to now on the site, in virtual surround. It's impressive--and I'm only listening through my crummy built-ins. My favorites are the mountain stream sounds and the swirling wind.


----------



## frank bavaro

or places to buy, away from them directly (at a discount, of course)


----------



## kpadrino

I'm in the same spot as most who've posted on this topic. Small, tight space but looking for a good sound without bunch of speakers and wires. Room is 15x15 and open on 2 sides to other areas. TV is in the corner.


Has anyone tried the Polk Surroundbar or the Mirage Omni Uni-theater??? Got to admit, the looks are almost as important as the sound...or is that the other way around. The Yami's won't work due to the open sided room config.


Really looking for input soon.


K


----------



## sv_chamelea




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpadrino* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IHas anyone tried the Polk Surroundbar or the Mirage Omni Uni-theater???



K, Those are both pretty pricey solutions, eh? You must already have the AVR?


Identical room arrangement here ... I wanted to punt a Bose Lifestyle 12 and was looking to avoid wires to the rear. But most descriptions of synthetic surround systems in this thread say it's just like a 2.1 system. Partial to the omni-concept, I finally just bought the Spherex/Mirage 5.1 from Fry's Electronics, $300. I figured WTH, if I don't like it for the living room, I'll move it to my office/den.


Spherex control codes are in Logitech's database for the Harmony remotes. No AVR required (embedded in the subwoofer) plus it provides a set-top puck that shows volume & configuration. I placed the sub in the rt-corner behind the TV, so the center & right speakers are wired direct, fully hidden. Then ran left speaker wire thru a white plastic baseboard channel (also from Fry's) and added a $50 pair of generic speaker stands from Best Buy - skip the rear satellites if you don't want the wiring hassle.


Some people don't like the Mirage concept, but I want to try it. And I'm thrilled with it ... broad soundstage, full range, adds deep bass range even to TV news. Complaints about soft in the mids? ... nah, they just didn't find the Treble control~! I find that it's important to mount these Mirage sats pretty low ( ~30") so they can rise & fill the room. Speaker stands permit them to be 15 inches out from the corners. The sub is down-firing into carpet. I just placed a hard platform betw it and the carpet ... total solution was a bit under $400, with cables. Upgrade to 5.1 is free for the asking.


I went back to Fry's for more plastic channel, added the rears too.

YMMV, but this works very well for me.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Has anyone tried the Polk Surroundbar or the Mirage Omni Uni-theater???



Check in the speaker forum. I think these were discussed there a little more (run a search). I hadn't seen any one post comments on those products in this thread/forum. They are both rather pretty. I heard a demo of the polk at tweeter. It sounded decent, though I liked the YSP better. Course the demo room didn't have the open layout I have.


----------



## nudge

I just recently purchased a ysp-1000 for my living room and thought I would give a little back to this forum with my impressions.


First off, what it is not. It will not give you the perfect separation of a true 5.1 system. If your okay with an '80%' solution to that problem, then it is a really amazing unit.


It sounds fine for movies and audio both, at least to my ears. I paired it up with an SVS PB-10 subwoofer and I could not be more pleased. Obviously my room sets up well for the ysp, with the speaker sitting in front of my tv, on the centerline of the wall opposite the sofa. The rear wall has a large opening in it, but that opening is centered between two 4 foot long 'wings' that the ysp had no trouble finding to create virtual rear surrounds. I find that if I choose the 'stereo' setting on the ysp, I can listen to music for hours and not get tired of the sound quality.


Since the ysp has so many virtual surround modes built in, I find myself goofing around with it continually. (Much to my wife's annoyance!) As an example, the 5 beam music mode allows you to choose between a jazz club setting and a concert hall setting, that sort of thing. The 5 beam 'tv sports' mode is really nice also, as it centers the dialog near the tv but still allows a fair amount of surround sound ambiance. Almost like going to Dodger stadium and listening to Vin Scully on headphones while still taking in the sounds of the game all around you.


Another cool feature is what Yamaha calls 'target' mode. It allows you to turn the volume way down for late night listening, but direct the sound right at the sweet spot in your listening room. In my case, I am about 10 feet away right in front of the speaker, and man is it weird to have a strong sound field in that one spot and then hear it fall off in intensity dramatically as you walk a few feet to one side or the other. This feature has garnered largest amount of precious WAF by far! And I don't need to wear headphones to watch tv after she crashes anymore, so it is good for me too.


In short, if you are looking for a minimalist system and your environment works for the ysp, I would not hesitate to recommend this system to anyone.


nudge


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Thanks for the feedback Nudge. Interesting about the different modes.


----------



## mikie77

Can anyone suggest a dvd that would enable me to hear the sound from my ysp1000.

I would just like something that would give me a good practical demo.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Surround Sound:


The Incredibles

Master and Commander

Star Wars Pod Race

Saving Private Ryan

Open Range

Gladiator

Castaway

House of flying daggers

Blackhawk down


----------



## mikie77

Thanks Dave for the DVD's



And thank you Netflicks


Mike


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For Ximori and others who have purchased the NIRO system: Don't know if you've checked their site lately, but the new Upgrade just came out. I'm almost certain I'm going to be ordering the module. I'm pretty happy with what I've got, but I'm really curious as to how they've improved on it, and it's only 15 bucks!
> 
> 
> They've got some neat MP3 files you can listen to now on the site, in virtual surround. It's impressive--and I'm only listening through my crummy built-ins. My favorites are the mountain stream sounds and the swirling wind.



wow, i thought they close this thread. thanks Bert for the info. i've been out for awhile but will check them out soon.


well have you noticed the improvements so far?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Binaura has been flaky with the power supply. Every now and again (was often after a power outage) it would stop receiving incoming signals from the inputs. I would usually toggle the "hard" power switch located on the back of the thing on/off (not the button which puts in standby mode) a couple times and it would start to work again. My house has a lot of nuisance outages (clocks flash a couple times a month), so I added a UPS to the setup, and it had been fine.


This weekend it did it again, only this time my old toggling trick didn't work. So I am going to have to figure something out. Its been an okay performer for a year ago, but the thing is tucked behind my corner placed tv stand, so it is a PITA to mess with it.


I intend to e-mail the company to see if they have any recomendations. I'll post if I get any results. I suspect there is a short in there someplace. But I am not particularly handy at fixing these things. I don't recall seeing other Binaura owners having this problem, so it might be an isolated thing.


The wife is not on board with going 2.1 in the den, so I am not sure what my next move will be.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Got a response from Binaura (thanks Mark for the contact point) it was sort of a non-answer.



> Quote:
> It seems that your system is more susceptible to external electrical interference than most unit and we are sorry for hear that.
> 
> 
> Whenever you encounter any unusual behavior, the best thing to do is to turn off the power with the switch on the back of subwoofer or unplug the unit from the wall. Either way, give about 30 seconds before turn it back on. After this process, the computer inside your system is back in the initial state and the system should be as good as new.



That's more or less what I was already doing. I checked the fuse last night (mentioned in their FAQ), it was fine. After I did that, I could hear the unit faintly at max volume. The baby was asleep already, so I didn't want to mess with it too much.


I could send it back for warranty service, although the form says I need the original box and proof of purchase (UPC code, I guess) which I lack. I have a print out of my receipt. I'd have to pay shipping, so I might just go for an upgrade. I am locked into 1.1 systems due to the baby. So it might be ysp-800 + sub. Not sure I want to spend any money right now though.


----------



## mczolton

Glad to be of service. I hope the repair works out for you.


Mark



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got a response from Binaura (thanks Mark for the contact point) it was sort of a non-answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's more or less what I was already doing. I checked the fuse last night (mentioned in their FAQ), it was fine. After I did that, I could hear the unit faintly at max volume. The baby was asleep already, so I didn't want to mess with it too much.
> 
> 
> I could send it back for warranty service, although the form says I need the original box and proof of purchase (UPC code, I guess) which I lack. I have a print out of my receipt. I'd have to pay shipping, so I might just go for an upgrade. I am locked into 1.1 systems due to the baby. So it might be ysp-800 + sub. Not sure I want to spend any money right now though.


----------



## nudge

Please delete this if it is against forum rules, but if any of you have been waiting for a decent price on the Yamaha YSP-1, you may want to type 'yamaha' into the search box at overstock.com. 'nuff said.


good luck,

nudge


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Going with the upgrade rather than figure out what's buggy in the Binaura.


Last night I moved the Hsu stf-2 sub (got a deal) meant for the to-be-finished basement that is delayed for a while upstairs. To my surprise it just barely fit behind the tv stand. So we are going to give the ysp-800 a whirl.


Not an ideal layout (corner placement, semi-open) but I think it will work in their stereo + 3 beam mode. At least the couch isn't against the wall.


Steeling my courage to grab one on e-bay. Will post comments when I have it.


----------



## Chauncy Gardner

Hey thread,


I haven't posted in a while but I lurk and remain keenly interested in any progress being made in the Vurtual Surround niche. Thanks again to all the posters who contribute here.


Thought I'd post a link to the newest offering from Sharp, the SD SP10. It gets a solid "8" review from CNET and incorporates some new Dolby processing dubbed "Audistry". Anyone heard it yet?


Ooops, can't post the link due to AVS guidelines.


Cheers,


Chauncy


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Here is the link Chauncy was refering to:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sharp_SD_SP1...2.html?tag=nav 


I'll add it to the list on post#3 later. MSRP appears to be $399.


Haven't heard anything about the audistry stuff before.


In other news, the YSP-800 I got off ebay arrived in apparantly good condition last night. Although it won't fit on top of my crt (crt is too narrow), so I need to look at a shelf. The manual says it is magnetically shielded, yet recomends against putting it on top of crt's. So I'll probably look to add a little breathing room just in case. Haven't been able to play with it yet since I had a home owners assoc meeting last night.


I will post comments on its corner performance once I get it running.


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Binaura has been flaky with the power supply. Every now and again (was often after a power outage) it would stop receiving incoming signals from the inputs. I would usually toggle the "hard" power switch located on the back of the thing on/off (not the button which puts in standby mode) a couple times and it would start to work again. My house has a lot of nuisance outages (clocks flash a couple times a month), so I added a UPS to the setup, and it had been fine.
> 
> 
> This weekend it did it again, only this time my old toggling trick didn't work. So I am going to have to figure something out. Its been an okay performer for a year ago, but the thing is tucked behind my corner placed tv stand, so it is a PITA to mess with it.
> 
> 
> I intend to e-mail the company to see if they have any recomendations. I'll post if I get any results. I suspect there is a short in there someplace. But I am not particularly handy at fixing these things. I don't recall seeing other Binaura owners having this problem, so it might be an isolated thing.
> 
> 
> The wife is not on board with going 2.1 in the den, so I am not sure what my next move will be.



Wow, talk about spooky timing...


My Binaura just flaked out as well. Also tried the power down/up reset etc, no joy.


Went down pretty quickly. First symptom, DD5.1 via optical started cutting in and out, sometimes bass only. Started fiddling, trying differant sources (digital coax, analog) eventually got to the point that I had nothing from any input. It was almost acting like a loose connection, but it didn't matter what source.


Interestingly, it reacts to various types of digital inputs correctly, so that part of the logic seems ok. Since all channels went out simultaneously, I'd suspect amplifier power rail or possibly amp input selector.


Bought it new on ebay. It's less than a year old. The box is long gone. Guess I'll open it up and see if I can find the problem. Grrrr...


----------



## plughplover

Well, opened it up and the problem was _OBVIOUS_ - *BAD CAPS*.


Five "Suncap" brand electrolytic capacitors leaking - three in the power amplifier assembly, two on what I'd guess is a low voltage supply daughterboard (one or both of these two appear to have failed).

IF YOU HAVE WARRANTY COVERAGE THIS CERTAINLY QUALIFIES AS A MANUFACTURING DEFECT.


I'm trying to decide whether its worth the effort to replace them. Getting replacements isn't the issue; the problem is nearly all the electrolytic caps in the system are the same brand - how long till they start going, too...


I am angry.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Plughplover - You want my box for parts? Its either that or mine will sit in the basement. I am switching to the yamaha ysp-800.


----------



## plughplover

re: your offer - maybe... It would be interesting to see if yours had the same problem. It's pretty easy to open it up enough for visual inspection - I can post instructions. You game?


Oh, and correction to my preceding post - make that SIX leaking caps (add one more to the power amp assembly). Looks like all the large electrolytics are leaking to one degree or another.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Sure, I'll crack it open. Might take me a few days since I am booked pretty tightly this weekend. I know next to nothing about electronics, but, if it is obvious, I am sure I'll see it. Otherwise I can take pictures of whatever you want. The box is yours for shipping if you want it.


----------



## plughplover

My suggested 'how to'


Find a flat surface with an edge - a table or kitchen counter

Put an appropriate size towel down to protect finishes

Lay unit down with woofer facing up and feet hanging off edge


There are 14 screws to remove from the back panel;

3 top, 3 bottom, and 4 on each side; they are closest to the edges.

I suggest removing top 3, bottom 3, the 4 on the side next to table,

then the four on the woofer side working inwards from top/bottom.


As you remove the last screw the panel will want to roll out and down, so grip the heat sink to control it. There are two sets of wires coming off the panel into the box; speaker wire to the woofer and ribbon cables going to front panel. In my unit there was enough slack in the ribbon cables to allow the back panel to lay down next to the box, however I had to disconnect the speaker wire from back panel. (Just grasp it and wiggle it off). This connector isn't painted, so you can pull it without warranty worries.


Looking at the exposed electronics you will observe a large transformer on the bottom, two small boards mounted perpendicular to the heat sink in the middle (you detached the woofer speaker wire from one of them) and a stacked assembly of three boards on the top.


The six caps showing leakage on my system were:


On each of the two amplifier boards (attached to heat sink) are two large cylindrical capacitors - a pair of 4700uF on one and pair of 3300uF on other. Inpect these, in particular the tops (should be flat, not bulging up) and the boards around their bases (should be clean, no '****' around them). You may need a flashlight and magnifying glass depending upon lighting conditions and your eyesight. On my system all of these have varying amounts of ****.


The other two caps are a bit harder to see. The bottom board in the stacked assembly has two smaller caps. I have lots of **** around these, and the top of the larger of the two is bulging up.


This is all fairly close quarters, and without disassembling further your only view of the boards / caps of interest is from the sides, so taking pictures will probably be difficult. But the **** and deformations should be apparent if your unit failed anything like mine did - I zeroed in on the daughterboard caps in less than a minute, it was that obvious.


Reassembly is just the reverse, and the whole process shouldn't take very long at all. Looking forward to your report...


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Okay. I'll try to crack open the binaura as soon as I can.


----------



## plughplover

dc_pilgrim, I just sent you a PM.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Cracked the Binaura open, and to my eyes - zero gouck.



I'll send to u a PM on the other matter, once I figure it out. Momentarily.


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cracked the Binaura open, and to my eyes - zero gouck.



Hmmm... a differant failure mode...


Well, I replaced all 6 caps, plus another small one that looked suspicious. Also replaced two cooked resisters on the daughterboard (had to guess a value since the bar codes were unreadable - used 10 ohms). Put it all back together, powered it up, and...


No change - still no audio output.










The two resisters appeared to be current limiters at the AC input to the daughterboard before the rectifiers and the bad caps. Got me puzzled as to what else is broke; wish I had a schematic.


Enough for now; it's 3am; going to bed.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Some initial comments on the YSP-800 + Hsu STF-2.


I haven't been able to do anything approaching critical listening. We travelled last weekend, and we don't use the TV when the baby is awake, and the noise would travel when the baby is asleep. But I have grabbed a few moments here and there when my wife is on errands. I'll comment further when I can.

*Setup* The YSP arrived from ebay in good condition, which was my initial fear. The packaging for the YSP was adequete for shipping UPS didn't punish it too severely. We are placing it in a corner in a 20x14 room with ceilings that loft to almost 16 feet. This room is open to a kitchen in the back (approximately 15x10x9), and a 36" or so opening into the rest of the house. This isn't an ideal (perfect rectangle, centered on short wall) setup for the YSP.


We put the ysp-800 on top of my Sony 30XS955 CRT. Only it wasn't close to stable so I bought an omnimount center shelf from CC (the sanus at BB wasn't rated for the weight of the ysp-800). The manual clearly states that although the YSP is magnettically shielded, it should not be put on a CRT. We are taking our chances. The YSP has not hampered the PQ on the CRT, which is typical for an unshielded speaker.


The YSP now sits nicely on its shelf. Minor complaint - the inputs are in a recessed section, pointing down to aid wall mounting. It is PITA to connect wires if you shelf mount it. I could rotate the unit, but the velcro is strong, and I wind up trying to finagle them in. In a perfect world there would be a bit more clearance.


The auto-setup is unremarkable. Position the microphone and follow the menu. Makes noises for 2-3 minutes, scares the baby, and its done. It defaults the corner setup into "3 beam + stereo" mode. Which means L+R are stereo, C+surrounds are using the beam approach. It also tests to verify a sub is, or is not present (which scared the baby).

*the subwoofer* I had a HSU STF-2 meant for the (delayed) basement in the basement. I found a deal and grabbed it. I moved that up and put it behind the tv and attached it. This sub is an a totally different class than the one included in the binaura. Much more powerful (10" woofer vs 6.5"), and generally meaner. This has been the most noticable improvement over my prior setup. I haven't even cranked its volume or anything.

*Surround Sound* I don't feel I have listened enough to fully comment. I'll add more later. I definitely think it suffers in a corner setup. I have heard the ysp-1 in a tweeter store with a better layout, and it does a convincing (not perfect) job. I will say it is not a downgrade vs the Binaura (better not be given the $$). I stated in my prior review of that I felt it delivered something closer to a 3.1 feel. So far the same story with the YSP (in my environs). I really haven't heard enough to know if it tickles my ears enough to hear the presence of the rear channels.


EDIT 8/7/06 - I put the unit through some more pacesthis weekend, including running a calibration disc. Running AVIA, it produces static at each "channel". Listening to the comparison between right channel, and right surround at the sweetspot, I can say the surround element sounded further to the right, and with a bit more of a diffuse sound. I wasn't looking over my shoulder to see if it was behind me, but it did locate further off the axis. I never ran this test with the Binaura, so I can't compare it. I'll note that the auto-setup runs the surrounds 1-2 dbs higher than the LCR mains. I need to poke in to see if I can adjust that with the manual settings. My sub was also lower, but I just adjusted the volume on the subwoofer to correct that.


Watching some of the scenes from master and commander, I don't think it compares to a proper 5.1 system, but it does add something. I am undecided if, in my "challenging" layout it out performs boundryless devices like the binaura for surround sound, let alone sufficient to justify the price premium (the sub does). But given the failure of the binaura, the performance of the sub, and my desire to upgrade I am pleased.

*Music listening* Not golden eared at all, but it has sounded acceptable for casual listening with an i-pod using 128k encoded mp3s.


----------



## plughplover

dc_pilgrim - it arrived.


Opened it up and yes, the same 6 caps are leaking. I'll try to get a camera and post pictures later...


On the plus side, I don't think the failure has propogated as far in yours as mine; the two resistors I mentioned above are OK (and have a value of .47 ohm vs the 10 ohms I guessed).


I'll poke at both systems some more and post additional findings, but in the meantime...


IT IS A GOOD BET THAT ALL BINAURA'S USING SUNCAP BRAND CAPS WILL FAIL SOON.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Interesting. Guess it further illustrates the failure prone parts used, and my inability to recognize flaws in electronics.


Oh, and you got a PM.


----------



## mczolton

You can add me to the list as well. My Binaura failed at just about one year. I followed the troubleshooting tips on Binaura's website (checking the fuse which was fine). I have power, but no sound on any input. It was intermittent for a time but finally cut out this morning.

*Update* : I've sent an email to Binaura noting the fact that we have seen three failures in the same time frame with similar symptoms. I am requesting a replacement unit, although I doubt they will provide one. At this point, I am running my Tivo and DVD player through the display's internal speakers (yuck).


This is quite a bummer. I certainly didn't expect this unit to last forever, but at just over a year, I am disappointed.


What do you folks think?


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## plughplover

Unfortunately, this 'bad cap' thing is cropping up more and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague 

http://www.badcaps.net/


----------



## mczolton

I received a response from Bianura today. They told me that their engineers are out of the office working on an OEM project and will address the issue when they return. They wanted to know where I purchased the unit from.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## plughplover

Made a run to a parts store, picked up caps for the unit I got from dc_pilgrim,

and replacement resistors (of the correct value this time) for mine.


Swapped in the .47 resistors for the 10's, reassembled, powered up, and...


It works! Sound again! Yeah!!


Note to Mark - LEAVE YOUR UNIT OFF.


In both dc_pilgrims and mine, the caps that failed are power supply filter caps. In my case it looks like I got a short which blew the upstream .47 ohm current limiter resistors (in one sense a good thing as it disconnected that portion from the AC input). These resistors are ok in his, which means unfiltered half wave AC is getting fed downstream (yuck). To protect against further damage, just leave it unplugged.


I'm trying to find a camera so I can post pics in case you (or anyone else) wants to open yours up (see my previous instructions) and check your caps for leakage.


----------



## mczolton

I don't know if I am comfortable replacing the caps myself. I have some soldering experience though. Is it difficult to identify and remedy?


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if I am comfortable replacing the caps myself. I have some soldering experience though. Is it difficult to identify and remedy?



Identify? I'd say no, but dc_pilgrim didn't recognize the goop when he opened his up (I'll post pics). At this point though I'd says odds are you should replace all six caps and be done with it. What may be more involved is checking for secondary failures (like my blown resistors).


Remedy? Biggest hassle was disassembling the thing down to the point where you can work on the boards. With some solder wick for the desoldering (NOT a solder sucker) the actual part swapping was trivial; took longer to clean the goop off the boards.


Wait and see what Binaura says. If they won't fix/replace it, then hey, what have you got to loose other than a few bucks for the parts? Its already broke, right?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Mark, sorry to hear the disease is spreading. That stinks!


You got a pm.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Dave (Plugh),


Glad you diagnosed the problem and fixed it. I am impressed. Those links about capicitors were interesting too. I feel better that, to the extent you bought the binaura based on my comments, that I was able to help you make it right.


Was the goop the red stuff? I saw small amounts of it, but the tops of the capacitors were still flat to my eyes, which I thought you said was an indicator of a failed capacitor. Oh well, my brother is the electronics expert (build heathkits in the 70s if you know date back to then). I never picked up those skills.


----------



## plughplover

Thank *you* - being able to get the correct value for those resistors off your unit and resolving that little cabling issue







was a big help.


The 'red stuff' was what they painted the screws and connectors with (to detect tampering, I assume). I've got your unit disassembled but am holding off doing the repair work until I can get a camera and take some pics. Only one of the six show any bulge on the top, but all six have varying amounts of goop on the boards around their bases.


ALL electrolytic capacitors degrade over time, the shameful 'industry secret' is the ongoing problem of crappy caps in recent years. Yes, I remember Heathkits; built a couple myself. I'll bet if your brother still has them that THEY are still working, even with the 30+ year old electrolytic caps in them.


----------



## plughplover

OK, got someone with a camera to come over...

Pics aren't that great as his camera didn't want to do close-ups,

but they are good enough to illustrate the problem.


Here are two pics of the 'daughterboard' from dc_pilgrims unit showing the failed caps (same ones that failed in mine). I've also indicated the two .47 ohm resistors that blew in my unit.


----------



## plughplover

pics of one of the two amplifier boards.

These have not failed, but are leaking.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Interesting shots. Okay, I can see why I didn't see it, the stuff was packed in pretty tight while still assembled. That and I didn't have a clue what to look for.


I am hoping to update my review of the yamaha later today. Had a week or so with it, and I am getting a better feel. Hope to play with it a little more when my wife and daughter go to mass.


----------



## plughplover

pics of the other amplifier board.

One of these pics is really bad - sorry


----------



## plughplover

Dave, yeah, as I said your only view would be from the sides and you might need a flashlight and magnifier, but recognizing what you are seeing plays a part I guess.


Mark, feel free to share the pics (except that last one - it's really bad) with your contact at Binaura as examples of the problem, though I'd be surprised if they didn't already know about it. I mean what are the odds that the three of us are the first ones to experience the failure?? I bought mine in a stock liquidation on ebay (630 units IIRC), so I'm SURE there were older units 'in the field' that exceeded the limited operating lifespan of those caps long ago. Perhaps that is why they stopped marketing them and liquidated stock? Pure speculation of course, but seems plausible...


----------



## mczolton

Thanks for the pics. I'll forward them on to Binaura once I hear back from them.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Made some small updates to my comments on the YSP+sub in a corner setup in post #240:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8117587


----------



## henryd31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Made some small updates to my comments on the YSP+sub in a corner setup in post #240:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8117587




That's cool...I had a chance to listen to the YSP800 at a local store here and the

sub is what seems to make good difference for this device. I didn't really like

the YSP800 alone, I didn't hear any surround sound, especially from the rear. It

adds something, you probably described it correctly as resembling possibly a 3.0

setup. However, when I compared it with a real 3.0 setup for few hundreds less, I

still felt the separates were better. YSP800 +sub did make a bigger impression

than separates without the sub, still not real 5.1 setup, just the sub's bass made

it more fulfilling. For space reasons YSP800 w/sub seems good solution but seems

still a bit pricey compared to separates, but I guess that's what you pay for with

this unit.



On the other topic, whatever happened with the MainstageHD, was is just not

good enough of an upgrade to original Mainstage unit ? I remember last time

I was looking to get something for my room this unit was on top of my list, but

I don't see any good/bad reviews...Now I see some notes about this new Sharp

thing, anyone has heard that one yet ?


Thanks.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Henry,


Glad you found it helpful. We have a baby on the loose right now, so separates aren't desirable for practical and decor reasons. Given these limitations, I am pretty satisfied with the ysp+ fairly expensive ($400) sub.


In terms of the Mainstage HD, it was delayed for a long while, then 2 of 3 readers, in this thread weren't too impressed, especially due to the higher price (compared to the original). See these posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6923636 


(and several posts following it)


and this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7026283


----------



## henryd31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Henry,
> 
> 
> Glad you found it helpful. We have a baby on the loose right now, so separates aren't desirable for practical and decor reasons. Given these limitations, I am pretty satisfied with the ysp+ fairly expensive ($400) sub.
> 
> 
> In terms of the Mainstage HD, it was delayed for a long while, then 2 of 3 readers, in this thread weren't too impressed, especially due to the higher price (compared to the original). See these posts:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6923636
> 
> 
> (and several posts following it)
> 
> 
> and this one:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7026283



Ok, thank for the links, I must have looked at them as they seemed familiar once

reading...yeah, so it was a disappointment for the hd model...too bad...

As far as separates, I also have two small children, but I was able to get

a wall unit that my wife actually liked so I have a place to put 3.0 setup on now...

Just can't decide on the damn setup, so far it's KEF IQ1 plus IQ2c center channel

and either Pany xr55 or Onkyo 503 receiver.. A lot of people seem to like the Orb

speakers, I keep drawing to them even though the price seem a bit excessive

for my budget....well, happy you found something to your liking in the YSP..


Later..


----------



## TimPFla

Has anyone tried the Sherwood 2-1 at circuit city?? Thanks


----------



## axia55

Does anyone who has used the Zvox Mini know if there is a way to hook up more than one component at a time? I would like to try one out, but I want to hook up my DVD, TV, and Xbox.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Has anyone tried the Sherwood 2-1 at circuit city?? Thanks



Sorry, no.



> Quote:
> Does anyone who has used the Zvox Mini know if there is a way to hook up more than one component at a time? I would like to try one out, but I want to hook up my DVD, TV, and Xbox.



Presumably you could hook the above up to the tv, and then go tv out to the ZVOX. Per the hookup manual, it has one analog input if you use a sub, or two if you don't. Since you'd be using the tv while using the dvd/xbox, I don't see any reason you couldn't just pass the analog audio through it.


Here is the hookup guide:
http://www.zvoxaudio.com/ZVOXMiniHookupGuide10_05.pdf


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mczolton* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I received a response from Bianura today. They told me that their engineers are out of the office working on an OEM project and will address the issue when they return. They wanted to know where I purchased the unit from.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark



Did you ever hear back from them?


----------



## mczolton




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you ever hear back from them?



Nope










I plan on sending them an email soon, but I've pretty much given up on fixing this unit.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Mark, sorry to hear about the deafening silence. That stinks.


----------



## benjammin

First off, thank you to everyone in this thread sharing their knowledge and experiences with their equipment. I've had a Mainstage HD for less than a week now. I'm not an audiophile, but I was pleased with its sound fidelity, although it was not particularly immersive and did not have a powerful surround sound effect. I had also ordered the Fullstage (Mainstage HD with Substage subwoofer). That came a few days ago. I hooked up the subwoofer and used the 2nd Mainstage as the rear speaker.


The sound difference was significant. I realize for the price that one could have a traditonal surround sound system that would likely perform very well. But this setup was very simple for me and I'm very pleased with the results. Your mileage may vary, of course.


----------



## rodgermorales

from amazon. I did a quick set up and will it test out it asap. Let me know if you have any questions that I can answer about it's performance or dvd's I should test let me know.



Initial impressions:

DVD/rec unit has a nice "weighty" feel to it.

DVD picture on my 5 year old mitsubishi crt looked acceptable.

I may need to upgrade the sub because it's in a large room.


RM


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Look forward to any additional comments. I don't think I have seen anyone with experience with this system. There was a favorable newspaper review on the list once upon a time, but the newspaper killed the link so I took it off.


The burning question is usually how enveloping the surround field is, and in this case the bass response and (to a lesser extent) dvd player performance.


----------



## rodgermorales

I have had a short time with the sherwood and I think I have an idea of it's capabilities. Here it goes:


Setup:

Took 5 minutes. Like I said the main unit if "weighty" and looks even better in person, somewhat like a B&O product. The speakers look like computer speakers. On the downside spring clips were used. Overall the build quality was good.


Keep in mind when reading my review I presented a couple of challenges for the system. First, it's a very large living room with 14 foot ceilings and columns to the right of the system backed by a large open kitchen. Second, due to have two rug rats and the size of the niche I initially placed the speakers on top of my 55" mits crt.



Music:

Good. I was surprised given the look of the speakers that they were as composed as they were. I played some Seal and the strings were well resolved and the vocals sounded good and the stereo image was pretty wide. Beastie boys was good but the bass was lacking the deepest notes. At least it did not bottom out during my listening. Bottomline: good for background music but not for those with golden ears.


Movies:

Very good with some few nits. First off, as with all systems of this type, this is not a replacement for a 5.1 system. That said the sound field was very wide and, on occasion, I did get the sensation of effects from the sides. but at no point effects from behind The Normandy scene from Saving Private Ryan was impressive as I could hear bullets coming from off screen however when the action really got rolling the dialogue was not as resolved as much as I would have liked. In Star Wars the panning scenes were localized just right as they were in LOTR. In LOTR the scenes in caves had excellent echo effects and made the image seem huge. I watched Seabiscuit for the first time and thought the sherwood was great especially during the races and the dialogue in this movie was very sharp.

As for the video I would say average. I did see some jaggies during some of the films I watched but still was acceptable.


Overall:

I thought it did a good job for my application especially given the limitations I described above. As side note I took the speakers and placed them on stands a foot to the side of the display and the performance improved alot as the soundstage widened even more. For $240 I think it's a great deal and I think If I placed in it an a smaller room with proper speaker placeement I would like it even better. I have not heard the mainstage or niro but I have tried the polk soundbar and yamaha ysp1 at a local store. I think as far as an enveloping sound it beats the polk even thought the polk with the appropriate amplification and sub would by more dynamically pleasing. I heard the yamaha in a sound room and was really impressed and would purchase that if I has the necessary room shape however I don't and the sherwood is significantly cheaper. Again none of these systems would stand up to a 5.1 system (I formerly has a JBL HLS/Yamaha/velodyne system which was decent but nothing great)


Next step: hook up a velodyne sub to see if that helps.


Sorry about being so long winded.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Thanks for taking the time to comment Rodger. That's a pretty nice price! Looks like a decent recomendation for people looking for a budget system with a subwoofer. In both the Binaura, and the yamaha+Hsu the sub was a real difference maker from the prior set up (TV speakers ->Binaura --> YSP+HSU).


----------



## Kenage

Just want everyone to know that Niro is comming out with a new lineup. It has the same main unit & Subwoofer, but they re-designed the main speaker unit. It looks cooler and would fit in better with flat panel tv's and they claim it sounds better than the previous units. You can upgrade your existing system from them if you have already purchashed a Niro unit from them. You should check out the website for all the new info.


----------



## Bert

Thanks for the tip about NIRO--the new line looks really cool. Very minimalist in design. I'm really happy with my Reference, so I'm not in the market right now, but it sits atop a 32" Sony Wega as my secondary system. Eventually I'll get a flat screen, so when I do, their upgrade program sounds attractive.


The drift I get is that they concentrated on the 2-channel stereo music capability this time. Check out the "About Niro" section where he talks about his high end stuff--$20,000 for a mono amp!


----------



## Kenage

Bert - I have been looking at the Niro for a year now and I keep wondering if it is worth the money. Have you been happy with your reference system? I know it will not be as good as a good true 5.1 system, but I dont like wires or rear speakers so Niro looks to be the best bet.


----------



## Bert

Kenage; I am indeed happy with my system and believe it has been well worth it. Mind you, I never did any extensive comparing to other systems and just bought on faith and the Nakamichi name (which I've been a fan of since the 70's when they were at their peak and practically re-invented cassette decks). I've since learned Niro Nakamichi sold off his Nakamichi line to a Chinese company and they're just not the same anymore. Hence, this company called NIRO which is really the founder behind all the engineering and design.


I only compared the Reference to my main setup in the family room which is a true 5.1. I was lucky because the room has a high ceiling with visible wooden beams and rafters; I was able to wire behind the rafters so it's practically invisible when you enter the room--very important for WAF you know! Not that my main system is state of the art by today's standards, but it's decent enough and I like the sound of my KEF mains--I listen to everything flat and really don't like booming bass or highs that wear my ears out. The NIRO was uncanny in its similarity to me, so I was sold on it right away.


Yes, it's not true surround, but it does create a pretty good illusion, and the clarity really is impressive, coming from all sides. If I were starting over and didn't have that room where I could hide all the wiring I'd consider my NIRO for my primary system. Right now my CDs get played on it because I like to give it some exercise!


----------



## Kenage

Thanks Bert of the review.


----------



## andykall

I'm new to this forum and I am looking for more info on the new Niro systems. I already own the Niro 1.1 pro II which I bought not too long ago and I am pondering whether its worth the upgrade. The new systems "look" great but I don't know how they sound. I'm wondering how the smaller speaker cabinet design and more compact drivers affect mid-range treble etc..


I'm somewhat of a budget audiophile looking for the best a little money can buy.


I have two music systems one of which I use strictly for music cds and the Niro, I will use for DVDs and a home theater I am planning to use in a new home I'm building in Florida.


I've only been able to audition my Niro on a few occasions and needless to say the few times I have hooked it up I am very impressed with the sound that comes from that rather smallish 5 speaker box. I'd say it is a sound quality that holds up to its Nakamichi heritage.


While the Niro 1.1 pro II won't give you true surround 360 degree surround sound, the sound that does come out of the 2 small speakers is phenomenal for such a small package, ideal for smaller home theater applications where aesthetic appeal is more important than perfect sound. I'm building a Tuscan themed home and the thought of having my wife's 5 Bose jewel speakers hanging from the walls irks me (She bought the system the year before we met and we're trying to sell it now). The Bose lifestyle 25 clearly has the better 5.1 surround "sound effect" as even cheap systems would matched against the Niro, but when it comes to the actual quality of the sound- the Niro wins hands down. When you consider that the majority of the important sound will come from the front 3 speakers I think it is more important to consider the quality of THAT sound than the sound of horse's galloping, or bullets flying over your head which any 6 speaker system could probably do.


Like a few here wrote I went for the Niro Pro 1.1 II because it was designed by the founder of Nakamichi- Niro Nakamichi. Without auditioning the equipment I knew it had to be a pretty good product and it does live up to its name.


Getting more into the specifics of the sound. No its not perfect, but its one of the best home theatre in a box sounds I've heard in a long time for under $1000 dollars. The sound can be a little on the "bright" side for some people's tastes though that may have something to do with my room set-up. A few owners have said if you raise the speaker a little above ear level the sound is less bright. I found that turning down the treble one notch smooths the sound. I also found that on lower volume levels the dialogue from the center speaker can sometimes sound a little "tinny" unlike the Bose sound which seems better blended. Turn up the volume on the Niro however and you get seamless theater sound- as if you were in an actual theatre, The dialogue matches perfectly at higher volumes in my opinion though others may disagree. Don't get me wrong however, but I'm comparing the sound I hear to some of the other much more expensive systems out there.


For a small box and subwoofer we're talking as close to audiophile sound, tight bass and smooth highs, wonderful and immersing to listen to for long periods of time. The simplicity of the system and its small size will be sure to impress your guests as will its 200 watt smooth mammoth sound from such a small enclosure.


For CD listening, its a different story and something I think the newer systems were supposed to address. The sound quality is there, but the soundstage wasn't. In a 2 channel setup the back 2 speakers are activated when listening in stereo and I had a hard time localizing the singers or instruments regardless of which listening mode I set the amp to ( eg. prologic II vs stereo). Its just a trade-off you make whenever you buy a speaker system of this design. I don't think you can ever re-create he correct soundstage for 2 channel sources in a speaker enclosure where the speakers are separated by less than 2 feet. ( The actual system I use for music cds is in a separate room, also a budget system, comprised of a NAD 325EE, a Marantz CD player and Celestion 3 satellite bookshelf speaker set-up. My stands cost as much as the speaker system did back in the mid-90's) If you want good music, I think its always better to buy a system strictly for music. I have a critical ear for music and I play serious classical piano as a hobby on a Yamaha grand piano; so sound means a lot to me.


But this is all an aside and a small price to pay for such a convenient system in the Niro. You get convincing theater-like sound in only 2 speaker enclosures and a small amp. You can't beat it on aesthetics alone. I listened to Spielberg's War of the Worlds the other day and I was just blown away, the accuracy of the roomshaking sound coming from speaker system was incredible and the subwoofer is matched perfectly for a seamless blend between satellite and subwoofer. Indeed it seemed like I was listening to sound from a much more expensive hi-end theatre set-up- maybe one costing in the several thousands of dollars (which I would never spend my hard earned money on). When this system first came out a couple of years back, a lot of writers from audiophile magazines were comparing the sound quality and tone to hi-end systems- something I would still agree with. CNET rates it to have a better sound quality than some of the more expensive 1.1 systems Yamaha sells ( and the Niro includes a subwoofer and can accept signals from just about any source- there are a lot of input options on this puppy.) The Niro systems (especially the higher end systems) are a worthy consideration for anyone looking for quality sound (ie. not like my wife's Bose) without sacrificing aesthetics.


----------



## daverebel

Hey folks,

I just got a refurb Binaura, and had a question about some intereference I'm getting. In general, the unit works fine, & I'm in agreement to what other posters have said about sound quality & surround aspect of it. But I'm getting a low buzzing interference type sound coming from the main speaker (not subwoofer). The sound increases/decreases as I adjust the volume. It's enough to be annoying--any ideas on what potential solutions I should try? Any ideas are welcome! But I'm not an audiophile by any means, so please explain technical solutions clearly so I'll understand them. And thanks!

dave


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Not sure about the feedback issue. Are all your connections tight? Does it vary depending on the input?


If you read some of the earlier comments, you may want to start the clock in terms of the capacitors failing. Based on 3 of 3 owners here, the over/under is about 12 months.


Good luck, hope you enjoy it (once you sort your buzz issue).


----------



## iGrooveLA

hey guys....i have a fairly small living room and i'm looking for an easy virual surround sound solution...i dont want to run wires all over the place! my set up is as follows:


sony kdl-46V25L1 lcd tv

motorola hd receiver/dvr

SD tivo (for now)

gamecube

wii (soon)

oppo 971 dvd player


looking for something around $500 (dont need the DVD 'cuz i have the oppo) that sounds good! i'm considering the following:


fullstageHD

niro

binaura (can someone post the web page for them? can't find it)

zvox

logitech Z5450 (has wireless rear speakers)

Yamaha (too expensive tho)

Polk soundbar (kinda expensive)


kinda leaning toward the fullstageHD. any suggestions?


thanks.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Post #3 has a link to Binaura's manufacturer (and a bunch of other stuff). e-bay is the only source I know of these days, but google would probably prove otherwise.


How big is the room, whats your movie/music/games split? Are you commited to 1.1 or is 2.1 acceptable? How firm is the $500 budget? Is your room a perfect rectangle or open layout?


There is quite a lot in this thread already, if you haven't read many of the posts yet.


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *daverebel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey folks,
> 
> I just got a refurb Binaura, and had a question about some intereference I'm getting. In general, the unit works fine, & I'm in agreement to what other posters have said about sound quality & surround aspect of it. But I'm getting a low buzzing interference type sound coming from the main speaker (not subwoofer). The sound increases/decreases as I adjust the volume. It's enough to be annoying--any ideas on what potential solutions I should try? Any ideas are welcome! But I'm not an audiophile by any means, so please explain technical solutions clearly so I'll understand them. And thanks!
> 
> dave



Sounds like either a possible ground loop, or your seeing a possible symptom of the 'capacitor problem'.


ground loop - Is the system connected to electronics that are also connected to a cable tv coax? If so, try disconnecting the cable coax line and see if the noise reduces or disappears. If it does, you might want to pick up a ground blocker, such as this 


capacitor problem - as discussed on preceding pages of this thread, there are some faulty power supply filter capacitors in the units. If one of these is starting to fail, you could get rectified half wave AC into some of the audio circuits, which would sound like 'a low buzzing'. Only way to know is to open the unit up and inspect the caps. Some pictures were posted earlier...


Good Luck!


----------



## cromeo112




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure about the feedback issue. Are all your connections tight? Does it vary depending on the input?
> 
> 
> If you read some of the earlier comments, you may want to start the clock in terms of the capacitors failing. Based on 3 of 3 owners here, the over/under is about 12 months.
> 
> 
> Good luck, hope you enjoy it (once you sort your buzz issue).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have a Binaura B102 that is on the fritz. Not looking good for the company when their website is no longer working and the phone number to contact their warranty department is not in service. Guess I will crack open the case and practice soldering.


Anyone have any additional information on the status of the company?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Sorry that there is another victim of shoddy Binaura parts. Plughplover is the expert on reviving these things. Search this thread for his posts for the specifics on his repairs. If memory serves he listed the part numbers needed.


Didn't realize that their website was taken down. I guess this company is defunct. You can see some of their stuff via google cache.


These might have some leads on the warranty.



> Quote:
> US Distribution
> 
> TMG INC.
> 
> www.tmg-sales.com
> 
> Canadian Distributor
> 
> Global Electronics
> 
> www.globalsemi.com
> 
> Japanese Distributor
> 
> Binaura Japan Inc. .
> www.binaura.jp
> [email protected]



I used to have pdf of the claim form, I think it was sent to a canadian company for service. But appears that I don't have that anymore. It was a one year warranty, and you'd need your receipt (and possibly the original box depending on how it read) and you'd pay shipping. If you are good at soldering, DIY is probably your best service.


----------



## cromeo112




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry that there is another victim of shoddy Binaura parts. Plughplover is the expert on reviving these things. Search this thread for his posts for the specifics on his repairs. If memory serves he listed the part numbers needed.
> 
> 
> Didn't realize that their website was taken down. I guess this company is defunct. You can see some of their stuff via google cache.
> 
> 
> These might have some leads on the warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have pdf of the claim form, I think it was sent to a canadian company for service. But appears that I don't have that anymore. It was a one year warranty, and you'd need your receipt (and possibly the original box depending on how it read) and you'd pay shipping. If you are good at soldering, DIY is probably your best service.



Well, I cracked open the unit per Plughplover's instructions and I saw exactly what he described. Picked up replacements for all of the capacitors noted and I happen to have a friend who is experienced in the electronics repair field who has offered to do the work for a six-pack of beer. Can't beat that, hope it works!


----------



## T2k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *henryd31* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's cool...I had a chance to listen to the YSP800 at a local store here and the
> 
> sub is what seems to make good difference for this device. I didn't really like
> 
> the YSP800 alone, I didn't hear any surround sound, especially from the rear. It
> 
> adds something, you probably described it correctly as resembling possibly a 3.0
> 
> setup. However, when I compared it with a real 3.0 setup for few hundreds less, I
> 
> still felt the separates were better. YSP800 +sub did make a bigger impression
> 
> than separates without the sub, still not real 5.1 setup, just the sub's bass made
> 
> it more fulfilling. For space reasons YSP800 w/sub seems good solution but seems
> 
> still a bit pricey compared to separates, but I guess that's what you pay for with
> 
> this unit.
> 
> 
> 
> On the other topic, whatever happened with the MainstageHD, was is just not
> 
> good enough of an upgrade to original Mainstage unit ? I remember last time
> 
> I was looking to get something for my room this unit was on top of my list, but
> 
> I don't see any good/bad reviews...Now I see some notes about this new Sharp
> 
> thing, anyone has heard that one yet ?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I'm picking up the new YSP-1100 w/ subwoofer tomorrow (found it local ~$1200 incl. tax) - I'll install in our conference room and report back.


----------



## cromeo112




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plughplover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, opened it up and the problem was _OBVIOUS_ - *BAD CAPS*.
> 
> 
> Five "Suncap" brand electrolytic capacitors leaking - three in the power amplifier assembly, two on what I'd guess is a low voltage supply daughterboard (one or both of these two appear to have failed).
> 
> IF YOU HAVE WARRANTY COVERAGE THIS CERTAINLY QUALIFIES AS A MANUFACTURING DEFECT.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether its worth the effort to replace them. Getting replacements isn't the issue; the problem is nearly all the electrolytic caps in the system are the same brand - how long till they start going, too...
> 
> 
> I am angry.



I too have replaced the caps that you described and there is a problem. I went to a electronics store and they did not have 4700 uF 35v caps, they only had them in 50v. I was told that they would work so I installed them and when I powered up the 2 250v axial fuses blew. Is this a coincidence or did the higher voltage cap contribute to the problem? The center speaker works fine now but I have no subwoofer.


Thanks!


----------



## mrkrispy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T2k* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm picking up the new YSP-1100 w/ subwoofer tomorrow (found it local ~$1200 incl. tax) - I'll install in our conference room and report back.




yes please let us know what you think, very interested to find out. If you can get a photo of the back panel that would be a big plus. Thanks


----------



## iGrooveLA

hey guys...i just got the fullstageHD yesterday and set it up...so far i'm pretty happy with it, i haven't really had a chance to play w/it since by the time i set it up it was like 10 PM and i didn't want my neighbors to complain but i'll play w/it this weekend...anyone else have this and have impressions?


----------



## cathor

overstock is currently selling a batch of factory re-conditioned YSP-1s. After the coupon it's a pretty good deal - I finally caved in...


- seem like they just (Oct 31) increased the price - still an OK but not great deal


----------



## Scottwdw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iGrooveLA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey guys...i just got the fullstageHD yesterday and set it up...so far i'm pretty happy with it, i haven't really had a chance to play w/it since by the time i set it up it was like 10 PM and i didn't want my neighbors to complain but i'll play w/it this weekend...anyone else have this and have impressions?



How'd the fullstageHD sound? Looking at this for my future setup. Want to place a mainstageHD on the Omnimount shelf with a Samsung 50" DLP HDTV so I am very interested in your experience.


Scott


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cromeo112* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I too have replaced the caps that you described and there is a problem. I went to a electronics store and they did not have 4700 uF 35v caps, they only had them in 50v. I was told that they would work so I installed them and when I powered up the 2 250v axial fuses blew. Is this a coincidence or did the higher voltage cap contribute to the problem? The center speaker works fine now but I have no subwoofer.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I doubt the higher breakdown voltage rating is the cause. Are you sure you installed (both) the caps with the right polarity? Unlike the 3300's on the one amp board, which install with '+' on the same side, the two 4700's are opposite each other. That is,


The 3300s are like +O +O

The 4700s are like O+ +O


----------



## technogator

I was very disappointed with the sound quality of the internal speakers in my Samsung LNS-4095D LCD TV, particularly at lower volume levels. Initially, I was looking at purchasing the Yamaha YSP-800, as I have limitations on wiring and speaker positioning for a traditional Surround Sound system. After reading this forum and others, I decided my room is not optimal for the unit and is a bit more costly than I was willing to spend, just to improve general viewing sound quality, add some more punch to movie soundtracks, and listen to music via my IPOD dock. I ultimately went with a ZVOX mini and a Yamaha YST-FW100 subwoofer. The sound clarity and quality is greatly improved (although I'm not an audiophile). One issue though is that the 4095 does not have a variable volume control function when the internal speaker is disabled. I have to get a Harmony remote to consolidate functions.


----------



## iGrooveLA

hey guys...so i got the fullstageHD but hit a bit of a snag w/the grill on the substage, the peg that goes into the rubber receptables was broken so the grill would shake and rattle...bought it from crutchfield and they were cool about it and sent me another fullstageHD.


the fullstagehd does sound really good! i'm not an audiophile but to my ears it sounds really good...the only thing that really got to me though and may actually be a deal breaker is that there is no way to tell how high the volume and bass is...you just have to kinda listen and keep pushing the buttons on the remote...there's no sort of display at all and it's driving me crazy....i really hope that in the next iteration this is addressed because it is a great product...


i was putting the mainstage on an open shelf of a TV stand which worked fine...however, in the interim, the stand for my sony 46V25L1 was finally delivered this past saturday...it's a BDI Avion 8529 and i'm finding that now the mainstageHD doesn't work quiet as well on it since i have the TV on top of the stand (not mounted) and, although it fits in the center drawer, the wires are problematic so i'm thinking that i really need a 2.1 set up now...i really wish that i could work w/the fullstageHD...


so now i'm back on the hunt for a 2.1 system and considering the Bose GS 321 Series II cuz i really can't find anything else out there...the only thing about it is that i really don't need the DVD player cuz i'm geting the new oppo 871 so i'll really only need it just for the sound which is a waste...i guess i could go w/the Bose Cinemate but I'm not hearing good things about that...if anyone else has a different opinion of the cinemate...lemme know.


is there anything else out there that's a 2.1 system that's good??? there is the denon s301 but it's expensive and only comes in silver...if it came in black i might swallow the price...


if you guys have any suggestions lemme know...cuz otherwise i might be going the Bose 321 route...it did go down by 100 bux to 899....if any of you have the bose 321...lemme know your thoughts!


thanks!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Post #3 has the list. I imagine you've seen it. The budget options for 2.1 are the sherwood and I am guessing the sony is pretty cheap now, along with the reduce bose.


You might want to pick a speaker+sub+receiver w/DVS as an alternative. Good luck.


I think the Mainstage can be wall mounted, if that helps with your placement issues. . .


----------



## iGrooveLA

thanks..what's a DVS?


i didn't think of that...i could get a speaker, sub, receiver deal but i wont get the virtual surround sound that's in the 2.1 systems, right? i know a lot of people say there's not much of a surround effect but...


on another note, on the bose 123 gs, can i use a different dvd player and just have the sound go through the bose? i'm getting the oppo 871 so i'd rather use that than the bose's non upconverting dvd player...i'm just wondering if this is possible or am i relegated to use the bose's dvd player...anyone know?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

DVS = Dolby Virtual Speaker. It is the codec developed by dolby for 2 speakers faking to be 5 speakers. It is used in the Denon S101/301 HTIB amongst others. The recent (last couple years) HK multichannel (not stereo!) receivers have it, as does the old Kenwoods. I have seen it mentioned that the some Denons have it, but never researched them, or any others.


I'd probably look at a HK receiver (or refurb from HarmanAudio.com) as a starting place unless you feel strongly about the make of your receiver. Then the speaker and sub forum for related recomendations.


----------



## iGrooveLA

hey guys...i just got the bose 321 gs series II system and i have a couple of questions:


i'm NOT using the dvd player on the bose since i have a sony upconverting dvd (soon to be oppo 981) so what i did was that i used the CBL-SAT inputs in the back of the bose for the sony dvd player...


i followed the instructions on the bose video by connecting the white/red RCA plugs in the CBL-SAT from the bose to the "out" of the dvd player....i then used an optical cable from the bose to the dvd player and changed the optical option in the bose menu systemt to CBL-Sat...this is correct, right?


now when, i watch a DVD and choose CBL-SAT on the bose for the sound, it works but i'm getting "PCM 2.0" displayed on the bose...what does that mean? i am really using the optical connection, rigth?


thanks for the help.


----------



## idgamerd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iGrooveLA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey guys...i just got the bose 321 gs series II system and i have a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> i'm NOT using the dvd player on the bose since i have a sony upconverting dvd (soon to be oppo 981) so what i did was that i used the CBL-SAT inputs in the back of the bose for the sony dvd player...
> 
> 
> i followed the instructions on the bose video by connecting the white/red RCA plugs in the CBL-SAT from the bose to the "out" of the dvd player....i then used an optical cable from the bose to the dvd player and changed the optical option in the bose menu systemt to CBL-Sat...this is correct, right?
> 
> 
> now when, i watch a DVD and choose CBL-SAT on the bose for the sound, it works but i'm getting "PCM 2.0" displayed on the bose...what does that mean? i am really using the optical connection, rigth?
> 
> 
> thanks for the help.



How is the sound on your BOSE? I read different reviews on it (I know it isnt liked in this forum..) and most of them are either 5 out of 5 stars or 1 out of 5 stars; so basically very good or very bad... How is yours?


I am looking for a 2.1 or 1.1 system that will look nice with my 50" Panasonic Plasma (it is silver color). What other recommendations do you guys have for 2.1 or 1.1 system? Looking to spend under $1K


----------



## Nebraskarrt

Where you that unhappy with the FullstageHD? Now that you have had both in your home can you compare the 2. I send you a pm with questions on your FullstageHD experience.


----------



## iGrooveLA




Nebraskarrt said:


> Where you that unhappy with the FullstageHD? Now that you have had both in your home can you compare the 2. I send you a pm with questions on your FullstageHD experience.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> the only thing that really bugged me about the mainstageHD is that it didn't have an indicator for volume/bass...so i couldn't really tell how loud i had it and just had t listen...i think for most people this is OK but after a while it got to me...the sound from the mainstageHD was pretty darn good...i may have to say that a little better than the bose 321...but i just got the bose yesterday so i haven't really played w/it yet...but for my purposes (i live in a townhouse) it's pretty good...
> 
> 
> another snafu i ran into was that i just got the BDI Avion 8529 tv stand and i wasn't able to integrate the mainstagehd into this new set up...the mainstage has to be centered under or over the tv...since i have my tv on top of the stand, i didn't have room to situate it right in front of the TV plus it would look funky, so i tried to put it in the center speaker drawer but that had it's drawbacks as well so i decided to return the mainstage for those reasons.
> 
> 
> i did see the new bose lifestyle III series 28 at best buy yesterday and it was pretty awesome...i started to consider this because bose now has a wireless system for the back speakers so you wouldn't have to run speaker wires...this would be a TRUE 5.1 system then but it was $2k plus the wireless transmitters are another $250. i'm still trying to find out more about this system but there aren't a lot of reviews out there plus i'm not i wanna spend $2500! ouch!


----------



## Nebraskarrt

Thanks for the info. I am leaning heavily towards the FullstageHD system. over a 2.1 system. Just trying to absorb the most information possible to make an educated decision.


----------



## Scottwdw

Just ordered the FullStage tonight to go with a Samsung 5087 DLP. Going to use an OmniMount Center Channel Speaker Shelf to put the Mainstage on top of the tv and put the SubStage behind it. The tv will be in a corner and should give the SubStage a good location (according to soundmatters user manual).


With holidays and such, it may be a couple of weeks before I get this together, will report back when I figure it all out.







Everything is in transit at the moment.










Scott


----------



## Nebraskarrt

Why is it everytime I go to BB or Circuit City.......I am always drawn to the Bose 321?? Tried to test out various systems that I would consider. They had the hts6500 set up but wasnt idea, everything was on top of each other. No movie to test sim. surround. I didnt see the VR-670. The sony was tossed together like the philips so I didnt really spend to much time tinkering with it as it seemed a waste of time. The Bose 321 and Yamaha YSP-800 were set up nicely with nice demos going. If I had to compare the sound to my hear I felt more of a fuller feel with the 321, probably cause of the sub which was lacking with the ysp-800 demo. I wish some retail store had the FullstageHD so I could try before I buy. iGroove...tell me more about your bose 321 vs FullstageHD experience. So hard to decide. I was impressed with the YSP but 800 without a sub is kinda pricey incomparison to the FullstageHD and Bose321 could be had at 100-200 less. Is there some reason why I think the bose sounds beautiful in the stores????


Jason


----------



## Regularguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nebraskarrt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why is it everytime I go to BB or Circuit City.......I am always drawn to the Bose 321??



My issue with the Bose 3 2 1 is that you're stuck with its somewhat obsolete built-in DVD. I figure I'll go with an up-converting DVD, and eventually jump to HD-DVD or Blu-ray. (Though I guess there's a plug-in for additional commponents on the Bose.)


I'm looking at the YSP-800 with the fairly inexpensive sub that's made to go with it (YST-SW100). Pricing it on the Web, and adding an up-converting DVD (like the cheaper Oppo model), the combo comes in about the same as the Bose. (Note, however, that I'm pricing the YSP-800 with Internet stores I've never dealt with.)


----------



## Nebraskarrt

I understand what you mean about an obsolete DVD player. My parents just bought us a Panny DMR-es25 this would be our primarly player. My tv does not have a HDMI or DVI port. It is a Toshiba 42h81. If I did select the bose I most likely would rarely use the DVD player. The room is opened to the kitchen minus a half wall. Understand with either of these option there will not be a true surround..just looking for a "fullness" I guess. I wish BB would have had a sub connected to the ysp. I guess I should ask that they do so to better evaluate each on a equal level.


----------



## Brownsfan91171

I thought I would add my question to this thread. I want to get a HTIB, but I cannot have all the wires. That led me to the new Sharp system. The reviews on the Sharp sd-sp10 have been very good but until today, I could not find them for sale.


Well I was on the Sharp website today and they are now listing them, even at a lower price then what we thought they would be. I would love to try them out but I have a problem. I have a Hitachi 42HDS69 Plasma HDTV but there is not room for the speaker on my entertainment center. The entertainment center is from Bassett, John Elway designed it, how funny is that. I love the looks of it but there is not a place to place the main speaker. I thought about a bracket that would let the speaker sit on top of the TV, but I can not find one that is designed for a plasma TV. Has anyone had this problem, and how did you solve it?


----------



## EvanATL

Brownsfan - can't help you on the entertainment center issue - but am interested in the Sharp sd-sp10 as well. I looked on their website and wasn't able to find any pricing or ordering info. Could you please post a link?


Thanks!


Evan


----------



## Brownsfan91171

Ok that is wierd. The sharp was up yesterday for sale but not today. I can tell you that when it was on Sharp's website, it was $50 cheaper than what the price listed on the first page was.


If I see it up again I will post it on here.


----------



## Brownsfan91171

Another question for everyone. If you had to choose between the Denon s-101 or the Soundmatters Fullstage HD, which one would you pick.


I have a Hitachi 42HDS69 Plasma and not alot of room for 5.1 or higher system. I have resolved myself to the fact that I need a 1.1 or 2.1 system. If you had to choose between the two for watching movies (mainly) and music listening (sometimes), which one would you recommend?


I have to admit I am a little anxious as both are on sale and comparably priced.


----------



## Brownsfan91171

Sorry for bumping my last post, but I know many people on here are familar with both systems.


----------



## Nebraskarrt

There arent immediate responses. Give it a couple days is what I usually do, although I know that you want answers now. No real need to bump it.


----------



## Brownsfan91171

A day or so ago I asked about the Fullstage HD and the Denon S-101. I am aware that you can not list prices on here, so I won't. However, I am able to get the Denson S-101 for 1/2 price. For that price would the experts on this Board recommend it? If not, what do you like better.


I have a Hitachi 42HDS69 and I do not want all the wires from true surround sound. I like the I-Pod connection, and will listen to some music. The biggest reason for it is movies and football games. I would like something more than the normal speakers with some sense of a theater environment.


Any help or comments I get would be appreciated.


----------



## Regularguy

The Denon gets good reviews:
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/dvdpvr/0,3...9193895,00.htm 


If the price is good, go for it!


----------



## yodaisking

The reason I am looking at a virutal surround system (VSS) is becuase of the large, open rooom my Dad's 50' Plasma is in. The viewing area is far removed from the side and real walls for a traditon 5.1 set up and placing speakers on stands is not an option. It seems some of the systems are good for smaller rooms, but it hard to dechipher which would be good for larger rooms with high ceilings. Anyone have a smiliar issue or any input on which systems are best for large open rooms?


----------



## BurnTees

just gonna add my question to the end of the thread. I just bought a panasonic 42px60u. I live in a studio apt and rear speakers aren't an option. I also have a gift certificate for amazon so i'd like to purchase from there. not looking to spend a lot. I have NO Idea where to start so if someone could recommend a system I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## Kipa

If you're looking for a 1.1 solution and really value the "virtual surround" feeling, check out the offerings from Niro ( www.niro1.com ). I had a NIRO unti for 2 years and it was fantastic for movies. I still have it another room, but moved to a 2.1 system with Dolby Virtual Speaker (Denon w/ Monitor Audio speakers). The quality of the sound is much better, music listening is much more enjoyable, but the virtual surround is not nearly as good as the NIRO I had (1.1Pro). They're not cheap but again is you want excellent virtual surround from a 1.1 solution, NIRO is one of the best options out there.


Kipa


----------



## Regularguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BurnTees* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> just gonna add my question to the end of the thread. I just bought a panasonic 42px60u. I live in a studio apt and rear speakers aren't an option. I also have a gift certificate for amazon so i'd like to purchase from there. not looking to spend a lot. I have NO Idea where to start so if someone could recommend a system I'd really appreciate it.



I got a Zevox Mini on eBay for a very nice price (refurb, but the Zevox factory was the eBay seller). Works great in the bedroom. Not available on Amazon, but you can always spent the gift card on something else.


The larger Zevox would be even better, and a cheap/decent sub would make it better yet.


----------



## sharpend69

Just wanted to give an honest opinion of the mainstage HD and sub from soundmatters. I got it from crutchfield.com the other day and it was a breeze to hook up. The sound is, obviously, much better than the TV speakers (Mitsu WD-57831). BUT having spent $500+ on them they better...right? Anyway, the bose setup is a waste. #1 too expensive, #2 gimmick #3 no HD-DVD and where is the digital input? Before I digress...I got to thinking how much better things could sound if I did a 3.1 set up! So, I'm probably going to send these speakers back from SM and get a reciever that does virtual surround with some speakers from Paradigm. My room is huge so the whole virtual surround thing isn't for me. BUt if anyone has a room with a back wall about 15-18 feet from where FS HD will be you could be really happy...I was watching MI3 and there is a scene with a jet landing, it sounded pretty close to 5.1 which impressed me. Other than that the only negative that I have is the sound isn't as rich as I would like. Hope this helps. Shoot me a note if you want more info.


----------



## Regularguy

A couple of new offerings available in a few month:


Philips HTS6600 -- a 2.1 system -- that was written up recently in the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/te...0A&oref=slogin 

Very similar to the Bose 3-2-1, and projected to come in at $600.


Even more interesting for me is the Philips HTS8100
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-2...tem-213478.php 

It's a one-pice "bar", with optional sub. Projected price unknown.


Both will have a built-in DVD that up-converts to 1080p, with HDMI hook-up. Wow!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Thanks Regularguy. I will add them to post #3 when I get a chance.


----------



## iGrooveLA

hey guys...so the saga of my sound system i think is over! i got the denon s-101 last friday and set it up...so far i'm impressed by the denon's sound, a lot more full bodied than the bose 321 and way cheaper, too!


the ipod connection is also really convenient...it grabs the ipod interface and puts it on your tv and you can browse your ipod library, very convenient. the interface is where they skimped tho...really basic looking...otherwise, it's a really nice system, well built, attractive mayb even...wait for it...sexy? yes, sexy!










i havent watched a full on movie yet (im waiting to receive the Oppo 981HD which iwill connect to the denon via optical) but did try Star Wars III and it sounded pretty good w/the dolby virtual speaker system! definitely better than bose 321.


my only *minor* gripes are that there are no color choices. would have preferred black but the silver is nice, too. also, they should have put the ipod port in the back or added one in the back as it doesn't look too neat when a white cord is coming out of the front of the unit.


i would have preferred the higher end model with more features, S-301, but couldn't stomach the higher price...plus, for my purposes, since i wont really be using the built in dvd player but just mostly for awesome audio, it made more sense to go for the less expensive model which can be had at a reasonable price on amazon...defintely a great bang for the buck! originally this unit sold twice as much at 1k but its selling for 500 bones on amazon!


before this experience never really thought about denon but now i think denon rocks!


----------



## armstrg3

Can anyone offer any suggestions on the Polk Surroundbar vs the Yamaha YSP 1100? Also the Boston P400 looks interesting, anyone audition ?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Polk is a speaker only. You will need a receiver to power it. I think the boston is the same. There was a thread in the speaker section laying out all the surroundbar type speakers. The YSP series have a receiver built in.


Not really sure which one is sonically better.


----------



## TF2006

I have had the Sharp SD-SP10 for a few days now and thought I would share my thoughts on the system. I am not an audiophile by any means. I also do not like to listen to loud noises so cannot speak to the power of the system. The executive summary: I am very pleased with this system.


Why 1.1: I wanted a 1.1 system to replace an older 2.1 system (Denon M51). I live in an older home with small rooms. It is difficult to place any of the upstairs TVs (in the living room and a bedroom I use as on office) where I can sit facing them head on. A few years ago I purchased the Denon M51 and that worked fine with smaller 4:3 screens. With my bigger 26-inch widescreen TV it is difficult to place the speakers in relation to my position when watching TV, which is a sofa at 90 degrees to the TV. I thought a 1.1 system would be easier to angle. Also, not having to use speaker stands would be a plus. I have a 5.1 system in the TV room in the basement, but the basement is too cold in the winter so I often watch movies upstairs and want sound better than the TV speakers will provide.


Why the Sharp SD-SP10: I chose the Sharp SD-SP10 for several reasons. 1. It was a 1.1 system that came with a subwoofer. 2. It did not have a DVD player, which I didn't need anyway. 3. CNET gave it a good review. 4. The size of the main speaker unit seemed like it would fit with my needs and I liked the fact that the subwoofer was tall and skinny (easier to place). 5. The price. I purchased it from the Sharp website. I ordered it on Dec. 1, it shipped on Dec. 5 and I received it on Dec. 7.


My Comparisons: As stated, the Sharp SD-SP10 is replacing a Denon M51 2.1 system. I also have a Denon S-301, purchased last year for the HDMI output. In the basement, I have a Samsung HT-Q70 5.1 HTIB system.


TV Viewing: I first connected my living room TV to the system and watched a couple of Thursday night shows and the news. The sound was a definite improvement over my TV speakers. I liked the fact that I could change the sound mode using the remote. Announcer works well for normal TV viewing.


Movie Viewing: I don't have any of the shoot-em-up DVDs that are commonly used to test surround sound so I settled on The Incredibles. The THX intro (the globe breaks into glass and forms the THX symbol) is a good test. I also played the DVD up to the point where Mr. Incredible finds Buddy following him after he foils the bank robbery. I moved the system to my office and at first watched with the system on my desk, which placed it at ear level as recommended in the manual. It was about 9 feet away from me. I sit about three feet from the TV. I heard a surround effect. The dialog was quite clear and overall I was pleased with the sound.


I then moved into the living room where I now have the Denon S-301 set up. I sat directly in front of the TV, about a third of the way from the back wall. The speakers are on stands on either side of the TV. The sound was flat but opened up when I changed the surround mode to VS Wide. At first the sound didn't seem much different but then I noticed some subtleties, such as when the car comes to a stop in front of the cat lady. The engine winding down was not noticeable on the Sharp.


I then went to the basement and watched the DVD with a 5.1 system. As expected, the surround effect was greater. The tinkling glass of the THX bit was really noticeable. The car stopping in front of the cat lady was more pronounced than on the Denon. I'd say both the Denon and the Sharp give a 60 - 70% surround effect compared to a 5.1 system.


I have since relocated my Sharp unit to a shelf under the TV. Last night I watched more of the movie sitting three to four feet away from the unit. I think it sounds better from a closer distance.


Music Listening: I listened to the Charlie Brown Christmas CD on both the Sharp and Denon systems. The Denon sounds a bit richer, but the Sharp did very well and is perfectly adequate for the size of the room I have it in (8 x 11).


Functional Notes and Aesthetics: The size of the speaker unit is not too big. If it were a bit narrower, I would have more flexibility in placing the unit (such as removing the speaker from my TV and placing it under it). It is about 17 inches wide, 11 inches deep, 4 inches high. I love the shape of the subwoofer. I can place it in between two parts of my desk where it's out of the way. I had the Denon system in that room and the sub was too big to fit anywhere so took up space under my desk. Speaker wire, included in the package, connects the sub to the main unit. The plug from the main unit powers both systems. The speaker unit has two optical connectors, a digital coax connector and three RCA ports. I mini-jack for an MP3 player would be nice but I have a mini-jack to RCA cable so that is not a deal-breaker.


A remote control is included. I like the ability to control both the speaker and subwoofer sound levels using the remote. In addition, the remote includes controls for a TV and a DVD player. There are codes in the manual. My Sharp TV was controlled by the default code and the Samsung code did control my DVD recorder. My HDTV comes OTA (I don't have cable or satellite) so I didn't have to connect or control any other devices. That said, I found the buttons on the remote rather small and not placed where I'm using to having them and ended up using the remote to learn my universal remote.


You can cycle through various sound modes. The manual explains each of the modes and how they take advantage of the new Audistry technology. I listened to TV using the Announcer mode and Late. I used the Cinema mode for watching the DVD. I listened to music using the Standard and Surround modes. I did not test out the Sports mode.


The SD-SP10 has a silver finish. I was hoping it would be like the titanium finish of my Sharp TV but it is silver. I think it must have been designed to match the lower-end SH20U models that Sharp is now selling. An option for a black finish would be nice. A titanium finish would be ideal for me.


The bottom line: I highly recommend the Sharp SD-SP10 if you want a simple, unobtrusive, good-sounding virtual surround sound system at a very good price point. I also love my Denon S-301. That has come down in price since I bought mine. The Denon is very stylish (the titanium finish matches my TV perfectly), has great sound, upconverts DVD but is expensive. The speakers and sub take up more room. That is why I decided to try the Sharp SD-SP10; it fits my needs perfectly.


----------



## Brownsfan91171

For virtual surround sound, when watching movies, which one did you prefer, the Sharp SD-SP10 or the Denon S-310?


----------



## TF2006

I don't recall forming a preference of one system over the other when watching movies. It had more to do with "where did I want to sit to watch the rest of this movie?" than a major difference in sound quality. That said, I did finish the rest of the movie from the Denon S-301 system. It might have a slight edge over the Sharp. Could also be a perceived factor of what I paid for the two systems.


----------



## tuan209

Where did you get the Sharp SD-SP10 at? I cant seem to find it anywhere, but Audiocubes, which sells it for ~500.


----------



## TF2006

I got it at the sharp usa website (cannot post links yet) look for the product under entertainment, home theater, audio. There is still a "buy online" link from the product page and the product shows in stock once you click on that link.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Updated the links for the philips units on post #3. Thanks regularguy. Added the product link for the sharp product that TF2006 just reviewed (thanks). Looks like they sell it online for $100 less MSRP. Pretty compelling price for a budget unit w/sub.


----------



## astropuppy

Has anybody hooked one of these up to a third party sub. This sounds like a great way to simplify surround sound with kids. Especially my kids who like to adjust things on a regular basis.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

The ones with included sub units (like the binaura) likely have proprietary connectors or hardwired electronics that make 3rd party subs more challenging.


The units w/o a sub or optional subs like the YSP or Mainstage have been used w/other subs.


My YSP-800 is hooked up to a Hsu STF-2. Plenty of thump.


----------



## astropuppy

Sorry Dave. I should of been more explicit. I was asking about subs hooked up to the line level output of the Sharp SD-SP10 which sounds like a heck of a deal to me.


----------



## TF2006

I have not hooked up a third-party sub but there is a line-out port for a sub on the back of the SD-SP10. I do not know if the sub volume control on the remote would control the volume of a third-party sub. I have a non-Sharp sub that I can test tonight.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

No problem Astropuppy, I'll admit I was a bit puzzled by your question. Looks like you are in good hands w/ TF2006.


----------



## tolax

Feedback on my journey into one box sound which might be useful to people going down the same route.


My situation was that I have a Pio 5060, four kids running around and a wife who really liked the look of the mounted Pio with its speakers attached. Generally we are either watching comcast DVR or movies (mostly kid stuff) via my Tvix media unit.


The TV speakers were fine for most things but on the rare occasion where I did watch a 'grown-up' movie I wanted better sound. That being said I knew nothing about speakers, receivers or subwoofers......


My first though was that maybe I could just create a system like a Denon 301 by buying a subwoofer and a receiver that supported Dolby Virtual Surround. Then hooking it up to the existing TV speakers.


As I was 'playing' stuff either had to be cheap or returnable. I ordered a second hand subwoofer Athena PS-4000 via Audiogon ($125 = cheap). The HK range of receivers support DVS so I looked on their website and they sell refurb AVR-235 (lowest unit that supports this) for $299 with 30 day returns. Bit of a result then because I found that HK operates an ebay store where they sell exactly the same units with an average sell price of $199.










I hooked it all up sat back and was frankly very disappointed. Probably as anyone who knows anything about speakers could have told me the subwoofer was much too powerful for the crappy TV speakers and it just sounded 'boomy' and horrible.


I was then in a situation where I could admit to the wife I had made a mistake or I could throw more money at it and pretend it was part of some grand masterplan.










Therefore I started looking at one speaker solutions.


My living room is open on one side so systems such as the Yamaha were out. Plus the yamaha ysp series is fairly ugly and would not match the Pio piano finish. I was tempted by the Niro unit but as I already had a receiver and subwoofer this was less attractive.


In the end it was a toss up between the Polk Surround Bar and getting a new pair of separate front speakers. In the end I went the Polk route because of the look of the unit matched the TV. This time I went to the local CC as it was an easy return. Cost was around $800 and they throw in a subwoofer (now I have two!) and an ipod dock.


Hooked it all up and it is a vast improvement over the TV speakers (effect i was looking for). I could not hand on heart say it is a surround system but watching loTR on HD the other day the battle scenes were much more impressive and immersive with the better sound.


Total cost for receiver, subwoofer, surround bar was around $1200 including tax etc. Much more expensive that I intended but for my particular situation with the young kids and the WAF factor it is a solution that I am happy with.


Hope this helps someone.


Tolax


----------



## TF2006

A third-party sub connected to the Sharp SD-SP10 through the sub-out port can be controlled by remote control provided with the Sharp. The manual states that the sub must have a built-in amplifier to work.


The sub volume control goes from -8 to 8. I've been watching movies with the volume set to -1. For music, I raise it to 2.


----------



## sabex

Well I placed my order. As a complete noob , hopefully I did not get this too badly wrong.

Polk Surroundbar

Polk PSW10 subwoofer

Pioneer VSX1016TXV Receiver.

I know I will get better surround from a true 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup but I had marital issues with visible speaker wires.









The major reason for the subwoofer choice was 'because its free' which is always the right price.

For the receiver I was looking for something that could do HDMI switching and this looked to have all the bells and whistles (including THX) for under $400.


My major misgiving is that the receiver is 7.1 and the SurroundBar looks to be a 5.1 replacement. I figured at worst I could just not connect up the 'missing' 2 speakers. Am I total dimwit or will that work?


----------



## astropuppy

Thanks TF2006. Has anybody compared the Sharp SD-SP10 to the cheaper ZVOX unit? I already have a sub; So, buying the Sharp unit is a bit of a waste.


----------



## tolax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I placed my order. As a complete noob , hopefully I did not get this too badly wrong.
> 
> Polk Surroundbar
> 
> Polk PSW10 subwoofer
> 
> Pioneer VSX1016TXV Receiver.
> 
> I know I will get better surround from a true 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup but I had marital issues with visible speaker wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The major reason for the subwoofer choice was 'because its free' which is always the right price.
> 
> For the receiver I was looking for something that could do HDMI switching and this looked to have all the bells and whistles (including THX) for under $400.
> 
> 
> My major misgiving is that the receiver is 7.1 and the SurroundBar looks to be a 5.1 replacement. I figured at worst I could just not connect up the 'missing' 2 speakers. Am I total dimwit or will that work?



When you configure the receiver you will just disable the other speakers. The receiver will then automatically adjust itself to 5:1


Only other hint I have it that there seem to be several ways of configuring the unit. There are some basic instructions in the box. The white paper on the polk website though has different instructions. Try both and see which one you like. For me the white paper worked best. (large at front, small for other speakrs - crossover at 120)


Tolax


----------



## sabex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tolax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you configure the receiver you will just disable the other speakers. The receiver will then automatically adjust itself to 5:1
> 
> 
> Only other hint I have it that there seem to be several ways of configuring the unit. There are some basic instructions in the box. The white paper on the polk website though has different instructions. Try both and see which one you like. For me the white paper worked best. (large at front, small for other speakrs - crossover at 120)
> 
> 
> Tolax



Great. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Nebraskarrt

Thanks to TF2006 review I have finally made a decision on what to go with for my new home theater for the living room. It came down to the YSP-800 and the Sharp. Until recently, the Sharp was unavailable for purchase so I didnt initially include it. My only reservation on the Sharp is that I havent had the opportunity to hear it with my own ears as I was with the YSP. It sounds like I will get some surround sounds. The CNET review, TF2006 review, and the attractive price is what has drawn me to the SD-SP10. If the YSP with a sub was close to the same price bracket I probably would have chose that as my number 1 option. The wife will certainly appreciate the lower cost of the SD-SP10. Thanks. I would love to hear more about your Sharp experience TF.


Jason


----------



## Nebraskarrt

The wife ordered the sd-sp10 for me as a Xmas present. It should be here tomorrow!


----------



## rgoodwin

My SP10 should be here Friday


----------



## daffeh

anyone here that has a good 3-2-1 working with a htpc.

I like the idea of a 2point surround (ish) system but i don't want to use the receiver/dvd player that comes along with units like the bose one.


Are their similar products that can be hooked up to a pc without too much of a hastle (needs to be used by my parents who are not at home in the wires and plugging world







)

The ideal would be to just replace the 5.1 system they have now (it broke down and my mother is sick of the wires) by a 2.1 surround using the same (audigy2 zs) soundcard in the pc.


If i'm not making much sense i can elaborate a bit more but i hope you get the picture


----------



## Allan2

Zvox mini or Mainstage HD?


I'm looking for an upgrade to the sound of my new HD TV in the bedroom. I'm currently using an old Cambridge Soundworks Mini setup, but it's time for something new. The replacement must be self powered. Because of space limitations, if I use a subwoofer it cannot be more than 7" wide, and I do not want to run wires to the back of the room. And if I place it on the same cabinet as the tv it needs to be low profile, otherwise I'll need a "stand" to place it on top of the tv (a wall mount won't work for me). From reading this thread the above two speakers seem like reasonable options. A couple of questions if I may:


* Is the sound between the two units of relatively similar quality? If so, it's tough justifying the extra money for the Mainstage.


* On Amazon, 2 of 4 reviewers claimed their Zvox Mini's failed within 6 months. Is this a known issue or does it seem to be a fairly reliable unit?


* I thought about the YSP 800 with an Omnimount Center Channel Speaker Stand but again, the difference in price is huge. Not sure if it's worth it for my needs.


Any advice will be very much appreciated. I'm also going to start a separate thread with this same question - hope that's okay on this board. Thanks very much for your input.


----------



## Regularguy

I have the Zvox Mini, and it sounds better than my tv's speakers... clearer dialogue, especially... but not dramatically so. The Zvox factory sells its refurbs/returns on eBay, if you want a good deal. (I've always thought refurb/returns were actually a safer bet than new, quality-wise, since they go over them pretty carefully to make sure they're ok.)


I'm still in the "looking" phase for my first HDTV. When I make my move, I'll get something higher-end than the Zvox Mini. Maybe the Mainstage, maybe the Yamaha, maybe the Sharp SD-SP10


----------



## Allan2

What I like about the zvox is that it powers on and off with the TV. But from your post it makes it sound as though it's not that much of an upgrade from the tv speakers. I have a Sony 40V2500 and the internal speakers are pretty good - but they are still "tv speakers" if you know what I mean.


----------



## Nebraskarrt

While I am no audiophile by any means, I am happy with my Sharp SD-SP10 which my wife got for me for Christmas. I had decided between the ysp-800 and the Sharp. If money was no option I probably would have gone with/asked for the ysp, but thought that the extra money saved could be spent towards other items for our house. I never a/b compared anything in my home. I really would have liked to have both at the same time just to see if there is much of a difference, but I will never know how great that YSP is....but thats just fine with me. I did have a old technics reciever with essentially was a 5.1 but due to moving had it set up as a 3.1 set up in the living room. The sharp sound 10x better than that. The sound has a fullness quality my wife says, and I would agree. I do occasional get the feeling of surround sounds to my left and right, but not behind me. I never felt that with the previous system with the 3.1 set up. I would recommend the sd-sp10. It is simple and seems like a bargain at $300.


----------



## Allan2

Nebraskarrt - Thanks. Tried to find an online manual for th Sharp SD-SP10 with no success. Can you tell me if it needs to be powered down each night or can it be left on? Thanks.


----------



## Regularguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Allan2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I like about the zvox is that it powers on and off with the TV. But from your post it makes it sound as though it's not that much of an upgrade from the tv speakers. I have a Sony 40V2500 and the internal speakers are pretty good - but they are still "tv speakers" if you know what I mean.



I have a Sony sdtv (~ 27") with stereo speakers built in. The sound is too muddy to understand speech sometimes, hence the Zvox. It's clearly superior to the tv sound. But having heard the Yamaha in a store, the Zvox doesn't hold a candle to it. Then again, I only paid $150 for it (shipping included, refurb sold by the factory on eBay), and it's exactly what I wanted for my current tv. When I go HD, I'll want something more dramatic.


The automatic power-off is indeed a benefit.


----------



## Nebraskarrt

I power it down when ever I am not watching tv. It has a built in cooling fan which may run alot if you leave it on 24/7. Turing it off manually or with a remote is what I expected or planned out of the unit. The zvox is the only one i know that will power down with no signal.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I believe the Binaura powered down with no signal (if I recall correctly) but you then had to "wake" it when you want to use it. But it was laden with faulty electronics and their were multiple failures by owners reported here, including me. I think the Mainstage tells you to leave it on all the time. But that might just be standby power off situation. Kind of an unusal requirement. Would a harmony remote help (turn off everything with one button), I think you can get their basic model for around $50 or so on sale (certainly for $100).


Sounds like the Sharp is the new budget champ from the recent comments.


----------



## Allan2

I guess my concern, based on what I've read in this thread, is that none of the options I'm considering (Mainstage, Zvox, and now Sharp - maybe even the ysp800) will prove to be a *significant* improvement over the internal speakers of the 40v2500. This is in a relatively small bedroom setting with the tv close to one wall (on the viewer's right) which, from what I can discern from postings here and info on manufacturers' and reviewers' sites, will at least partially defeat the surround image. And I hate to order something, try it out, and return it. Aside from being a pain to do, I don't think it's fair to the retailer.


----------



## cklinh

I had ordered the Soundmatters Fullstage HD, but am now contemplating the Sharp SD-SP10... I have a question though... I can see that the Logitech website has the Fullstage as an option, but not the SD-SP10. Has anyone used the Harmony remotes with the Sharp? (specifically the 720, but I guess any one would be similar).


I know you can program the remote, but the setup process still asks me to choose a "similar" device and all they list are 5.1 systems/receivers. Any snags with using the remote with the Sharp?


----------



## TF2006

I used to have a Harmony remote (the 550) but gave it to my brother for Christmas. I didn't try to program the Sharp before I gave it away. Are there other Sharp sound systems listed in the Harmony database that you can use? I used the code for a "Sharp Audio System" to program my URC R7. That did turn the device on and off and worked the volume if I recall. I then programmed the base volume to the ch up and down keys and the surround mode to the input key. I'm not sure how long it would take Logitech to get the database updated. I gave up on the Harmony remote when the database couldn't find the Sharp TV I had just gotten (purchased three months after the release date, which should be plenty of time to update a database).


----------



## Allan2

I give up. I just ordered the Mainstage HD


----------



## duer333

After reading through the thread, it seems that the Sharp and Mainstage HD are the best two choices for the budget conscious. Has anyone heard both to give a good comparison? I think I'm drawn to the Sharp for both the price and the included sub.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I don't think anyone has bought both. Check the return policies, perhaps you'll be the first?


----------



## soundmax

Hi all,


I wanted to mention that my Binaura system is still going strong. I know a number of people had problems on this system but for me, so far so good. Their website is also running fine. I think someone mentioned it was down or the company went out of business?


----------



## Regularguy

I'm coming to the comclusion that a 2.1 system is a lot more viable for most situations than a 1.1 or all-in-one... which is too bad, because the nicest choices seem to be the latter.


Unless you have a wall-mounted flat-panel, a speaker module sitting in front of of the tv is inconvenient/unworkable for two reasons: A fairly deep unit like the Mainstage or Zvox isn't going to have space on the tv stand in front of an RP or a stand-mounted flat-panel. And a "bar" speaker like the Yamaha would block the infrared port for the remote control.


Obviously, a wall mount solves the problem for with flat-panels (though it isn't an option for RP), but not everyone wants or is able to wall-mount.


I guess some tv stands are able to accomodate the depth of a Mainstage-type speaker (on a shelf below, perhaps?) but in my situation -- needing to elevate the tv and speaker above the rather-high foot of our bed -- I don't think that's an option.


Any thoughts?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

My YSP is on an omnimount shelf on top of my CRT tv. $50 or so. Sanus made a cheaper one, but was close on the weight limit. I think the mainstage had a wall mount or and/or adjustable feet. 2.1 and a toddler didn't mesh for my situation.


Soundmax - glad your binaura is still working, how long have you been using it? The one year mark seemed to be the point of failure for some of us. Website looks redesigned.


----------



## cklinh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cklinh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had ordered the Soundmatters Fullstage HD, but am now contemplating the Sharp SD-SP10... I have a question though... I can see that the Logitech website has the Fullstage as an option, but not the SD-SP10. Has anyone used the Harmony remotes with the Sharp? (specifically the 720, but I guess any one would be similar).
> 
> 
> I know you can program the remote, but the setup process still asks me to choose a "similar" device and all they list are 5.1 systems/receivers. Any snags with using the remote with the Sharp?



If anyone else is interested... I finally got my remote and started playing with it. Looks like the website does have a preset profile for the Sharp SD-SP10 (it didn't ask if I had a remote for it)...


----------



## mirlene

ok, ok so I bought a Bose HTIB and now...I regret it!! Although I am happy with the sound I am very upset about the lack of inputs and the bad quality video. I purchased an lcd as an x-mas gift to myself last month sort of on impulse (had been wanting one for years and there was a great sale). When I got the tv home it was great except the sound was horrific, even for my inexperienced ears. So I went to Best Buy and Sound Advice, of course nobody was very helpful until I walked into the Bose Factory Store. I explained my needs -someone who knows nothing about audioneeds home theater system for small, oddly-shaped room. The sales rep (who was very helpful but not pushy) right away pointed me to the 321 GS Series II. The demo sounded great to me, the system looked nice and unobstrusive, I didn't have to run any wires, and 2 speakers was more than enough for my room-perfect! Plus, it included a DVD player so I could return the $130 I had just purchased from Circuit City and use that towards the Bose. I must admit I found the price a bit steep but went for it anyway figuring this was the ideal setup for me. When I got home, the first shocker was that the DVD was not even the shadow of the one I had previously bought (Onkyo upconvert) so I figured oh well, I'll just keep my DVD player and use this as the receiver/speakers.


Everything was great until I realized what a pain it would be to get my satellite receiver, nintendo wii, and dvd player hooked up to a system with so few inputs!!!!!!!!! I just purchased something online called an A/V selector which should remedy my lack of input problems but I am upset that I paid so much for a system that does not even have the latest technology. I have since noticed that virtually every receiver out there (most of which are cheaper) have at least 1 hdmi input and an optical in/out, etc.!!!!! Unfortunately, I had not come across this forum before making this purchase but I still have about 2 weeks to return the system so I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of something else that coudl fit my purposes. I was so excited about my first home theater and its turned out to be so frustarting that I haven't even been able to enjoy it!


I found one that matches my needs in theory but it has received horrible reviews(the Denon S-301). Basically I need a virtual surround system or 2 speaker setup that will sound good, look nice, be easy to setup and have plenty of inputs/outputs - I'm probably asking for too much, huh?! Please...anyone out there know of something that would work for me-I need to figure this out before my return period is up THANKS!!!!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Have you looked at Post #3 in this thread?


----------



## YOTR

I am really having problems deciding between these 3 systems. I currently have a polk 3.1 setup with receiver right now and am trying to switch to one of these systems. I know I won't get the punch out of any of these like my current setup (I assume) but can I get some opinions from users that have any of these or have auditioned them? I have read the comments in this thread (VERY HELPFUL) but would like to hear more if possible. I am really interested in the Sharp setup because of cost and form factor. I am a little worried about how the sound supposedly drops off when you are out of the sweet spot (at least according to the cnet review). I don't mind that so much but I really don't want it to sound like crap if someone is sitting off to the side in one of our chairs. I am probably going to rule out the Yamaha because I don't think my room layout would work for the placement (my left side opens up into our kitchen and the right side has a good sized window). I did have the first mainstage and liked it but have not heard the new HD version with the sub. Price is somewhat of a factor but if I am going to spend $300 on the Sharp, I would spend more if the Fullstage/Yamaha/or something else is truly better. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Unless you need the small form factor off the substage, I'd just use your existing sub and mainstage HD if you want the full stage. It only goes to 35 hz, which is impressive for its size, but not that impressive for a $300 (? can't remember) sub.


Have you considered getting a different receiver with dolby virtual speaker?


I agree your layout isn't optimal for the YSP. Hopefully the sharp users can chime in on your sweet spot question.


----------



## YOTR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unless you need the small form factor off the substage, I'd just use your existing sub and mainstage HD if you want the full stage. It only goes to 35 hz, which is impressive for its size, but not that impressive for a $300 (? can't remember) sub.
> 
> 
> Have you considered getting a different receiver with dolby virtual speaker?
> 
> 
> I agree your layout isn't optimal for the YSP. Hopefully the sharp users can chime in on your sweet spot question.




Do you think a 3rd party sub will sound good with the mainstage HD? I can't seem to find anyone that has used the mainstage HD with a 3rd party sub. Space also isn't a huge factor so I definitely could keep my existing sub. It would be nice to have the small sub in the fullstage package but it isn't absolutely necessary.


I haven't honestly looked at a receiver with virtual speaker built in. That might be an option as I could keep my fronts and put away my center. We have a 1 year old son and he is really starting to get into alot of Dad's toys









This is the main reason for wanting a 1.1 system.



Also, how do you like the YSP-800? So should I just write that speaker off as an option? Would it sound that bad given my current layout: Front wall (with TV), left side opens up to kitchen, right wall has a goodsized window, back wall is were we sit. I just want to make sure before I scratch this one off my list.


----------



## jks52

Just received my Sharp system and still learning how to use it. My Sony HDTV and dvd player was wired into my stereo system which is just a 2 channel system. I had read about the Sharp system & thought I would give it a try. The sound is much more full, highs more spacious and the adjustable seperate bass can be set to the type of programming I'm listening to. But the big thing is the Dolby decoders - my dvd's sound so much better now, it's hard to believe that those little Sharp speakers put out better sound than my large stereo speakers. The Dolby/DTS decoder makes a big difference in my smallish family room. I also compared a music cd played through my dvd player which I haven't done before because I read a review that analog signals fed into the Sharp using the Sound Space setting with the Natural Bass really brought out some nice sounds versus a traditional 2 channel stereo setup. I put on an old Van Morrison cd and the seperation of the bass, flute, cymballs, etc., was much better that listening to my traditional stereo.


One thing that is important in your setup is that you need to make sure that your input device's output is set correctly if you are using the digital optical inputs on the Sharp. I have a HD Tivo and while listening to normal Hd channels with the Sharp, I noticed that the regular Dolby light wasn't on, but the Dolby Pro Logic light was. I went into my Tivo audio settings and discovered there is a setting for output that needed to be set to Dolby which I hadn't used previously because my stereo receiver didn't have a dolby decoder. Changed it and big difference in the Sharp's sound. You might need to do the same thing with the output of your dvd or cd player if you are using digital audio cables to the Sharp. Some players may not automatically feed a digital signal via the cable unless you select a particular setting from the source deck. You may just be feeding an analog PCM stereo signal through the cable as I was with the Tivo. There is so many different permutaions of settings on electronic equipment nowdays that it is a job to get all the settings between each source set right. But if you do, you will notice the improvement.


I'm still trying different settings on the Sharp with my dvd player since that's what I primarily wanted if for. I'm very happy with sound so far. It's not like a true surround system with 5 speakers, but it definitely puts out a much fuller, more spacious sound that sounds great in a medium sized room.


----------



## TF2006

For most movie viewing, I've been seated head-on to the sharp unit (I read the same review commenting on off-angle listening). My normal TV viewing is about 45 degrees to the side, with the TV angled on it's stand. I watched a movie while seated in this position the other day. The Sharp unit is on a shelf of the TV stand, definitely not in the "ear-level" position recommended. I did pull it out a bit and angled it as much as I could (maybe an inch to the right) but I was definitely off to the side of the unit. I was was working on my laptop at the same time and was surprised enough to look at the TV when I heard a train sound. The movie had a couple of scenes where an elevated train goes by. The sound from the speakers off-angle was convincing enough to me to notice it.


----------



## iGrooveLA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mirlene* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ok, ok so I bought a Bose HTIB and now...I regret it!! Although I am happy with the sound I am very upset about the lack of inputs and the bad quality video. I purchased an lcd as an x-mas gift to myself last month sort of on impulse (had been wanting one for years and there was a great sale). When I got the tv home it was great except the sound was horrific, even for my inexperienced ears. So I went to Best Buy and Sound Advice, of course nobody was very helpful until I walked into the Bose Factory Store. I explained my needs -someone who knows nothing about audioneeds home theater system for small, oddly-shaped room. The sales rep (who was very helpful but not pushy) right away pointed me to the 321 GS Series II. The demo sounded great to me, the system looked nice and unobstrusive, I didn't have to run any wires, and 2 speakers was more than enough for my room-perfect! Plus, it included a DVD player so I could return the $130 I had just purchased from Circuit City and use that towards the Bose. I must admit I found the price a bit steep but went for it anyway figuring this was the ideal setup for me. When I got home, the first shocker was that the DVD was not even the shadow of the one I had previously bought (Onkyo upconvert) so I figured oh well, I'll just keep my DVD player and use this as the receiver/speakers.
> 
> 
> Everything was great until I realized what a pain it would be to get my satellite receiver, nintendo wii, and dvd player hooked up to a system with so few inputs!!!!!!!!! I just purchased something online called an A/V selector which should remedy my lack of input problems but I am upset that I paid so much for a system that does not even have the latest technology. I have since noticed that virtually every receiver out there (most of which are cheaper) have at least 1 hdmi input and an optical in/out, etc.!!!!! Unfortunately, I had not come across this forum before making this purchase but I still have about 2 weeks to return the system so I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of something else that coudl fit my purposes. I was so excited about my first home theater and its turned out to be so frustarting that I haven't even been able to enjoy it!
> 
> 
> I found one that matches my needs in theory but it has received horrible reviews(the Denon S-301). Basically I need a virtual surround system or 2 speaker setup that will sound good, look nice, be easy to setup and have plenty of inputs/outputs - I'm probably asking for too much, huh?! Please...anyone out there know of something that would work for me-I need to figure this out before my return period is up THANKS!!!!



hi...i had the bose 321 system as well and ended up returning it as i wasn't happy with the sound. i have also tried the mainstageHD (good) but i ended up getting the Denon s-101. i saw the bad user reviews but the reviews from other sources (c-net, etc.) have been glowing...most of the bad user reviews never faulted the sound or the video capability but i guess more the systems reliability...having seen that, i decided to try out the s-101 and coulnd't be happier...the sound is awesome...much better than the bose...i don't use the dvd as i have an oppo 981 (thus the reason i didn't get the 301, plus its more moola)! this set up my work for you since you like your onkyo dvd player...plus it is at a great price on amazon right now (499 though i got it for for 399 but it went back up). give it a try and i'm keeping my fingers crossed that those bad user reviews were for ealier units and since i'm got mine late in the cycle (s101, s310 were released in summer of 2005), hopefully the later ones are not saddled with those problems...all i can say is so far so good..i've had mine for a little over a month now and now problems and i use it everybody as my tv speakers.


----------



## YOTR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jks52* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just received my Sharp system and still learning how to use it. My Sony HDTV and dvd player was wired into my stereo system which is just a 2 channel system. I had read about the Sharp system & thought I would give it a try. The sound is much more full, highs more spacious and the adjustable seperate bass can be set to the type of programming I'm listening to. But the big thing is the Dolby decoders - my dvd's sound so much better now, it's hard to believe that those little Sharp speakers put out better sound than my large stereo speakers. The Dolby/DTS decoder makes a big difference in my smallish family room. I also compared a music cd played through my dvd player which I haven't done before because I read a review that analog signals fed into the Sharp using the Sound Space setting with the Natural Bass really brought out some nice sounds versus a traditional 2 channel stereo setup. I put on an old Van Morrison cd and the seperation of the bass, flute, cymballs, etc., was much better that listening to my traditional stereo.
> 
> 
> One thing that is important in your setup is that you need to make sure that your input device's output is set correctly if you are using the digital optical inputs on the Sharp. I have a HD Tivo and while listening to normal Hd channels with the Sharp, I noticed that the regular Dolby light wasn't on, but the Dolby Pro Logic light was. I went into my Tivo audio settings and discovered there is a setting for output that needed to be set to Dolby which I hadn't used previously because my stereo receiver didn't have a dolby decoder. Changed it and big difference in the Sharp's sound. You might need to do the same thing with the output of your dvd or cd player if you are using digital audio cables to the Sharp. Some players may not automatically feed a digital signal via the cable unless you select a particular setting from the source deck. You may just be feeding an analog PCM stereo signal through the cable as I was with the Tivo. There is so many different permutaions of settings on electronic equipment nowdays that it is a job to get all the settings between each source set right. But if you do, you will notice the improvement.
> 
> 
> I'm still trying different settings on the Sharp with my dvd player since that's what I primarily wanted if for. I'm very happy with sound so far. It's not like a true surround system with 5 speakers, but it definitely puts out a much fuller, more spacious sound that sounds great in a medium sized room.




Do you notice a drop in sound (the cnet review stated the sound would go flat when you exited the sweet spot) when you move out of the intended listening area in front of you?

How does the sub sound?

How do you have the main unit mounted/placed? I might have to place the main unit a little above my normal listening area so I was just wondering.

Sorry for so many questions. I am considering purchasing this and wanted to know what you thought. So far though, I am very impressed especially after reading your opinions. Thanks!


----------



## YOTR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TF2006* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For most movie viewing, I've been seated head-on to the sharp unit (I read the same review commenting on off-angle listening). My normal TV viewing is about 45 degrees to the side, with the TV angled on it's stand. I watched a movie while seated in this position the other day. The Sharp unit is on a shelf of the TV stand, definitely not in the "ear-level" position recommended. I did pull it out a bit and angled it as much as I could (maybe an inch to the right) but I was definitely off to the side of the unit. I was was working on my laptop at the same time and was surprised enough to look at the TV when I heard a train sound. The movie had a couple of scenes where an elevated train goes by. The sound from the speakers off-angle was convincing enough to me to notice it.




That makes me feel a lot better about this setup. I know if I do purchase this, it will either be on top of a short Armoire or maybe on one of it's shelves. It won't be to hight but definitely won't be ear level. I really can't do anything else about the placement because of my 1 year old son







.....he likes my current speaker wires a little to much.........and my xbox 360.


It sounds like though that the listening spot is still pretty good and surprisingly great from the side even though the review stated otherwise. Thanks and keep the impressions coming.


----------



## soundmax

Soundmax - glad your binaura is still working, how long have you been using it? The one year mark seemed to be the point of failure for some of us. Website looks redesigned.[/quote]


DC,


My one year mark is this month so I'll keep my fingers crossed and report back should the expected happen.


----------



## mirlene

...10 days and counting before the return period on my Bose 321 system is up so I am searching high and low for a better system for the money. anyhow I came across this one which coincidentially is the perfect match for my Samsung LCD (glossy black finish), its only got a couple of customer reviews on cnet and amazon which were good but haven't found any official reviews on it. anyone out there tried or own this system and can share their experience? thanks!


----------



## Regularguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mirlene* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...10 days and counting before the return period on my Bose 321 system is up so I am searching high and low for a better system for the money. anyhow I came across this one which coincidentially is the perfect match for my Samsung LCD (glossy black finish), its only got a couple of customer reviews on cnet and amazon which were good but haven't found any official reviews on it. anyone out there tried or own this system and can share their experience? thanks!



Looks pretty cool! And the price definately smashes the Bose system.


My only hesitancy would be that the DVD isn't up-converting. Too bad you can't wait for the comparable model from Philips (HTS6600), which won't be out for a couple months.


If I were going to make my move now, I'd go with a speaker system that didn't include the DVD.


----------



## mirlene

Regular:

I agree, I love my new Onkyo upconvert. Its strange though because this product is said to do upconversion on some site and then others simply say progressive scan. I may have to end up waiting in the end if I don't find something soon. =/


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Do you think a 3rd party sub will sound good with the mainstage HD?



Depends on the sub of course, but form-factor aside there is nothing magical about the substage. Since it is a small 6.5" sub, most 8" or better will trounce it. My old Binaura had a 6.5" sub it was okay. My HSU STF-2, a quality 10" sub walks all over that. Frankly makes the biggest difference in my den set up.



> Quote:
> I haven't honestly looked at a receiver with virtual speaker built in. That might be an option as I could keep my fronts and put away my center. We have a 1 year old son and he is really starting to get into alot of Dad's toysThis is the main reason for wanting a 1.1 system.



Congrats. That was my reason too.




> Quote:
> Also, how do you like the YSP-800? So should I just write that speaker off as an option?



Might work. What are the dimension of the room including the room it opens into? I think the YSP's choke on 20' plus distances. Also that wall-flush seating isn't going to help. Mine is in a sub-optimal layout. Corner placement, open floorplan. I think it sounds like a 3.1(+) system. The (+) is a slight bit more dispersion when rear effects are triggered. I can really only hear it on a test disc feeding each channel (AVIA). Indistinguishable in a normal viewing scene. However, in the right room, like a test room at Tweeter, its rear effects are much better defined. I am not getting my money's worth in my room, but it was the best alternative when I purchased after the binaura went south.


Mirlene - Why not return the bose before your policy lapses regardless. You can always repurchase it later if something else doesn't work out. I think there was one comment on the Samsung somewhere in this thread (use the search this thread function).


----------



## Curt941

I have an onkyo SR604 reciever and a polk surroundbar and polk subwoofer and love it, works great in my apartment living room.


----------



## jks52




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YOTR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you notice a drop in sound (the cnet review stated the sound would go flat when you exited the sweet spot) when you move out of the intended listening area in front of you?
> 
> How does the sub sound?
> 
> How do you have the main unit mounted/placed? I might have to place the main unit a little above my normal listening area so I was just wondering.
> 
> Sorry for so many questions. I am considering purchasing this and wanted to know what you thought. So far though, I am very impressed especially after reading your opinions. Thanks!



My unit is actually sitting on the top of my entertainment center, so it's slightly above my head, but it still sounds good to me. It doesn't sound much differently if I sit to the side, maybe not quite as spacious as head-on. I haven't really played the bass very loud, but it definitely is noticable via dvd and it is adjustable separately from the main unit so you can increase it if you want.


----------



## ojgsarge

Has anyone noticed the Klipsch CS 700?


Looks like it's due in April at ~$1300. I like the idea of wireless. CNET did a little broadcast from the CES.


Thoughts?


----------



## sandor

im sitting here with the sammmmme exact dilemma....


also where are you guys finding the sharp - ive seen it at one place, thats it (aside sharp.com)


I am planning on having it sit on my dresser below my lcd thats on the wall - its a direct shot - they both have digital inputs, the sharp has more speakers I think..I dont know tough call!!!


100 is also 25%, thats somewhat of a consideration although Id spend 400.


SOMEONE DO A SIDE BY SIDE












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duer333* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After reading through the thread, it seems that the Sharp and Mainstage HD are the best two choices for the budget conscious. Has anyone heard both to give a good comparison? I think I'm drawn to the Sharp for both the price and the included sub.


----------



## henken

I just wanted to point out (I haven't seen it mentioned above) that Soundmatters appears to be coming out with a new model in the second quarter of 2007, the SLIMstage. It looks interesting.


Here are a couple of links that describe it:


Oops, well, I guess I don't have enough posts to post the URLs, but just google "SLIMstage".


----------



## sandor

slimstage looks interesting - again though itll be pricey, or more than these sharps and mainstageHD models that seem to do very well.


----------



## duer333

After weeks of debating, I just ordered the Sharp system. Thanks to all of the recent favorable reviews. I'll be sure to give my input when it comes in.


SANDOR - sharpusa website is the only place I find to buy it, about $315 with tax and S&H


----------



## sandor

thanks duer....i also found it at 1 online retailer for 290 - not sure what ship/tax are so its close in price.


anyone who could answer between the sharp and mainstageHD - does one seem to handle stereo sound better then the other? If im watching programming and its just being broadcasted, im OK with it being just L/R sound. I dont want something that fakes surround because that always sounds terrible. Do these units, (either one) sense the source and know if its a 5.1 feed, or just stereo?


I keep thinking I may also use this speaker with some sorta link to my PC so I can stream radio and so something that handles stereo well is also beneficial.


And - sorry but do these units have auto off when not in use?


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soundmax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Soundmax - glad your binaura is still working, how long have you been using it? The one year mark seemed to be the point of failure for some of us. Website looks redesigned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DC,
> 
> 
> My one year mark is this month so I'll keep my fingers crossed and report back should the expected happen.
Click to expand...


FWIW, I strongly advise you to open it up and inspect the problematic caps. If they go, they can take out other circuit components; it will be much simpler to fix if you catch them before they fail.


----------



## TF2006




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks duer....i also found it at 1 online retailer for 290 - not sure what ship/tax are so its close in price.
> 
> 
> anyone who could answer between the sharp and mainstageHD - does one seem to handle stereo sound better then the other? If im watching programming and its just being broadcasted, im OK with it being just L/R sound. I dont want something that fakes surround because that always sounds terrible. Do these units, (either one) sense the source and know if its a 5.1 feed, or just stereo?
> 
> 
> I keep thinking I may also use this speaker with some sorta link to my PC so I can stream radio and so something that handles stereo well is also beneficial.
> 
> 
> And - sorry but do these units have auto off when not in use?




I can only speak to the Sharp SD-SP10; I have never heard the Mainstage unit. It's easy enough to change the "mode" of the Sharp depending on the source. If you want TV sound to be in stereo you can change the source to Announcer or another mode that works for you (There are about six modes and I can't keep them straight. The manual clearly documents each mode and what it's good for). There is a button on the remote that supports mode selection; I have the "input" button on my remote programmed to do this for me.


I don't believe this unit has an auto-off function. I always turn it off when I'm done watching whatever I'm watching or listening to.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Plugh - did you see that Binaura re-launched their website, new products? Same bad caps? I wonder if Mark ever got them to respond to his e-mails.


----------



## mirlene

PHILIPS HTS9800. ok so its not the virtual surround or 2.1 system I had in mind but the speakers are only about 1" thick and wall mountable AND the 3 rear speakers (its a 6.1) are wireless (they do have to be connected to a small box wireless transmitter but not to the main unit so this means no wires across the room). Anyhow, the system seems to have good reviews (although most of the ones I found are from uk for some reason-CNET uk gave it an 8.5 for example). Unfortunately the 1.1 options I looked at from post #3 were too bulky for my taste (and my component shelf for that matter). This system is not only unobstrusive but also has upconverting DVD player, and HDMI connectivity which my Bose 321 lacks. This one seems like a good compromise so my Bose is going back to the store tomorrow. Thanks to everyone on the forum for their help.


----------



## ksalmon

Has anyone seen this in a B&M store? I would love to be able to hear it firsthand before purchasing. Though all I have heard were positive reviews I am still a little leary about purchasing without seeing it. I have seen it from Sharp's website and 1 other e-tailer.


----------



## jrbatche

*YSP-800 vs. Niro 620*


Hi all,


Does anyone have any experience with both the YSP-800 and one of the Niro setups? I think I've finally narrowed it down to the YSP-800 and the new Niro 620, as they fit the budget and look like they offer the features I need.


Basically, I've been set up with a mission by my fiancee to simplify my AV setup. Right now, it's a rack with a turntable, cd changer, tape deck and receiver, two floor speakers as I'm in an apt (so no surround speakers at this time), and a 42" panny plasma on a entertainment stand. This takes up most of a wall in our living room, so I've been tasked with getting the rack and floor speakers out to free up half the wall until we get a house and room for a HT setup, where at that point I can go nuts and not have our living room look like an electronics warehouse (her words).


I obviously don't want to go back to TV sound for everything, so I've been looking into these 1.0 and 1.1 setups, and like i've said above have pretty much narrowed it down to one of these two. From what I've read in this thread, my room is fairly well suited for one of these units save for the fact that my couch where I would want the sweet spot to be is against a wall. Otherwise, its pretty much a symmetrical, rectangular room, with the couch and loveseat the only soft surfaces.


My first question is for anyone who has listened to both the YSP-800 and any midrange Niro set (I know the 620 isn't out or just came out, so I wouldn't expect that, but maybe the 600 or 400). Is any one significantly better? as I'm in an apt, the lack of sub doesn't bother me much on the yamaha, and if i go with the Niro the sub will be turned fairly low anyway (old house, neighbors downstairs, thinnish walls, you get the drift). Inputs are not a problem, both of these will cover all my bases without issues as far as I can see.


Question #2, and I think i know the answer to this, but can anyone confirm that the ysp-800 does not have a headphone out? I use headphones quite often now (future wife will read, i'll be on the xbox), so if it doesn't that is a strike against it. I looked on the specs page and found no mention of any kind of out, so I think i know the answer but confirmation would be appreciated.


Question #3, how good is the virtual 5.1 on these? I saw the yamaha in my local Best Buy, but it was setup in the middle of the TV/Audio area facing straight out into the walking lane, so I can't say I got any kind of feel for this. Not having had any 5.1 for a while, I'm pretty sure anything will be better than none, but any feedback on this would be appreciated. I'll do both 5.1 games and Movies/TV, if that makes a difference. I heartened by the fact that the Niro supposedly has had some effort put into the music side of it, but for this setup that's not my primary concern anymore.


Question #4. While these two are in my budget, are they worth double (or more) the price of the MainstageHD or the Sharp SD-SP10? This will probably remain a primary living room system for me for a while, so I am willing to spend the money (my current equipment will furnish a basic HT/basement setup in the future). Any thoughts would be appreciated on this who have heard any of these in relation to the Yamaha or Niro.


Question #5. I've also thought about the YSP-1100, but it's a full $500+ more than either of these. It still intrigues me because of the lack of sub (weird, huh), as fuller bass without having a driver facing the ground would be very useful. But again, the price is prohibitive, and it would have to be head and shoulders above the 800 for me to consider it. so anyone with experience with both, care to chime in? In the same vein, the Niro 800 is intriguing as well, but it doesn't look like it's in wide release yet, so I don't expect many impressions.


Anyway, sorry for the long post, but thanks for reading this, this site has been a great resource. I know it's probably impossible that anyone has had experience will all of these, but any help or insight here would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## sigity

jrbatche,


I can't tell you about the YSP-800, but my niro 620 is currently "out for delivery" via UPS. I am going to try and hook it up tonight and post some feedback.


Word of Caution though - I'm not exactly an audiophile, and I have never owned a speaker system >$500, so this will be first venture into this arena.


I will post my thoughts though...


----------



## jrbatche

sigity:


No worries, any thoughts or comments, especially about the 620, are more than welcome. I'm starting to lean more toward the Niro for practical reasons because of the easy mounting on my tv plus the headphone jack, but I'm thinking I may try to pick up the Yamaha for an in-home test over the weekend just because I've seen them locally. Anyway, thanks


----------



## BuffaloJim

The surround field and sweet spot on the Yamaha are much wider than the one on my Binaura. (which is somewhat similar to the Niro) The YSP-800 is a real 5.1 replacement as far as I'm concerned, whereas the others are only approximations. You do however need a room with 4 walls for the Yamaha to be really effective as it bounces sounds off the walls to the side and back of the listener.


Jim


----------



## ksalmon

I was curious if there were any others out there who have the Sharp SD-SP10. I hate to purchase something like this without hearing it first so your impressions will go a long way in helping me decide. I am somewhat on the fence as to the Sharp or one of the Zvox offerings.


----------



## sigity

niro 620.


Big Box...over 50 pounds, and packed very well (individual boxes for everything). In addition to the system, I got the adjustable angle stand, since I was planning on putting the system on my media center below my mounted 50" Vizio. Setup was a breeze - I had the system unboxed and setup in under 30 minutes (mostly unboxing!)


Connections:

I only had one optical cable, and I originally hooked it up to my Comcast DVR (Motorola DCT6412) and did not play with any settings on the niro box. I also hooked up my ipod via composite audio.


Comcast DVR:

The first thing I put it on was a PBS Special broadcast in 5.1 Dolby - boy was I impressed. I stood about 5 feet away (I was anxious, plus I need to re-organize our living room to take advantage of the new setup) and heard sounds that I had never imagined hearing before. I'm not sure how much the niro had to do with it vs. the fact that I had gotten used to my vizio speakers. To be sure I wasn't a victim of psychology, I muted the niro and put the tv speakers back on...I did this about 10 times, and could not believe the difference. I don't know how to fully describe it, but you get the sense that you are not even in the same space - birds chirping, twigs dropping - sounds that I could barley make out before.


IPOD:

I whisked through my music collection to find music with different pitches, vocals, etc...I began with the Gladiator Theme (yeah, I know, real cultured), and this puppy played it beautifully. I am so used to listening to my music in headphones, and the niro was quite refreshing - much more depth, the tones were much more realistic. Even the wife perked up from her books to comment - "it sounds good".


DVD:

Unfortunately, this same wife (law school student) asked me to turn it down before I could hook it up to my sony DVPNS75H (upconverting DVD Player). Tonight, as soon as I get home, I'm hooking it up, and putting on any kind of action dvd I can find...i'll keep you posted.



So far, I am quite happy with my purchase, and look forward to continuing to play with it, and really find out what it can do...


hope this helps!


----------



## jrbatche

BuffaloJim:

That's kind of the impression I get, that the Niro is more of an "approximation" of a 5.1 setup, whereas the YSP-800 is more of a "re-creation" of a 5.1 setup. I get that more from the PR, in that the YSP has very detailed setup for the positional audio, while the Niro, as far as I can see, is plug and play.


sigity:

Thanks for the impressions. If you feel like adding more after watching a movie, I'd like to get some idea of how the surround positioning is, and if the sweet spot is generous or not. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be disappointed with it if I got it either.


Again, thanks for the input; like I said if I can find it locally I'm going to try to pick up the Yamaha and give it a test drive over the weekend.


----------



## sigity

Before I get into sweet spots, I think it would be important to disclose how my room is setup.


My room is in an L shape. See crude drawing below.



|---------------|

|X Y | 10ft

| |-----------|

| |

|---|



The X is where my components lie, (50" Vizio Plasma, mounted to wall, Sony DVPNS75H upconverting DVD Player, Comcast DVR, and the Niro 620).


The Y is where I was for this test (about 8 feet away).


DVD Impressions:

I put in X2, and quickly put it on a scene with a lot of action. I sat in amazement. You really get the feeling that the sound is coming from all around you. I brought (my skeptical) friend in and asked him to tell me where he heard sounds from and agreed - "All around - this is cool". As for the "sweet spot", I found that I could move up to about 4 feet away from the TV, all the way back to about 11 feet. From side to side, I was able to move 3 feet in each direction and still feel like I was in the sweet spot. I will say that the sound wasn't as great in the corners of the sweet spot (11 feet back, three feet in one direction) as it was in the middle, but still substantial nonetheless.


Currently, I have the niro pointed upwards on my media stand, and for the most part, it was probably pointed at my head, but I can imagine tweaking the angle to account for distance to provide a more consistent sweet spot.



Gripes: I do notice, however that i hear a significant "pop" when I change channels while watching TV. Anyone know what i can do to correct this?


----------



## Kenage

Thanks for the review Sigity. You did get the newer unit with the flat thin speaker correct?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Good review. I don't think I have seen much that is negative about any of the Niros. Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## duer333

I've had the sharp for about a week now, and have to say that I'm pretty impressed. The sound quality is very good for a small room. I didn't expect much out of the included sub, but it definitely shakes.


As far as the virtual surround, it's not bad. There is clearly a feel of a right, center, and left front speakers. When running a 5.1 test you defiantly have some sense of rear speakers, but it isn't significant. Overall I'd say its a pretty good reproduction coming from one speaker. Also I didn't notice a really big change if you move around the room, unless you are pretty far to the outside.


Unfortunately I haven't been able to hear the system with any dvd's since my player's digital out was defective when i went to hook it up.


my only problem was that the front speaker was a little bigger than I had thought (about the size of a VCR), perfect if you have an exposed console. Unfortunately I have a glass front so I'm still trying to reconfigure my set-up so it's a little more subtle. Right now the system is sitting right in front of the plasma.


----------



## sigity

kenage - yes, I bought the Niro 620.


you can see it at http://www.niro1.com/us/product/620.php 


i love it.


----------



## Regularguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sigity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> kenage - yes, I bought the Niro 620.
> 
> 
> you can see it at http://www.niro1.com/us/product/620.php



I really like the various accessories they have on that site for mounting a speaker above a non-wall-mounted flat-sceen tv. Looks as thought they would work just fine with any other 1.1 speaker system as well.


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## sigity

regularguy...


I have my tv mounted, but was a bit wary to mount my speaker until I was sure that i had it in the right spot - currently, I have an angle stand, which resides below the tv and angles the speaker upwards.


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## Allan2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duer333* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had the sharp for about a week now, and have to say that I'm pretty impressed. The sound quality is very good for a small room. I didn't expect much out of the included sub, but it definitely shakes.
> 
> 
> As far as the virtual surround, it's not bad. There is clearly a feel of a right, center, and left front speakers. When running a 5.1 test you defiantly have some sense of rear speakers, but it isn't significant. Overall I'd say its a pretty good reproduction coming from one speaker. Also I didn't notice a really big change if you move around the room, unless you are pretty far to the outside.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't been able to hear the system with any dvd's since my player's digital out was defective when i went to hook it up.
> 
> 
> my only problem was that the front speaker was a little bigger than I had thought (about the size of a VCR), perfect if you have an exposed console. Unfortunately I have a glass front so I'm still trying to reconfigure my set-up so it's a little more subtle. Right now the system is sitting right in front of the plasma.



A couple of questions regarding the Sharp please:


1) How is the L/R channel separation? Without surround, is there a clear distinction between left and right channels? I tried the Mainstage HD and there was virtually no separation.


2) Does the Sharp have an auto-off when there is no signal detected or does it have to be shut down manually?


3) How difficult would it be to mount the main speaker on a wall?


Thanks.


----------



## QZ1

There is no Sharp SP-10 Owners Manual posted. For those who own this product, can you tell me the ventilation requirements?


I am thinking it will be similar to other Sharp products, but I am not sure.

I am hoping to stack my Motorola DVR on it, like one can do with the Zvox, but I am not hopeful.


----------



## Crowdog

Anyone out ther have the newer 325 ZVOX unit? All I can find here are old posts concerning the 315. I am another who will be purchasing the ole "pig in a poke" since I cannot check out any of the single speaker set ups in person.


The Yamaha YSP-800 and the Soundmatters Fullstage HD both look pretty sweet and the Sharp SD-SP10 looks to be a great deal for the price.


Since I will be running on a tight budget the price factor is pushing me toward the Sharp or the ZVOX.


Any input is greatly appreciated.


Thanks.


Crow


----------



## YOTR

Well I finally have to make a decision about what to do. I realize that the Yamaha ysp-800 won't work in our layout. I also don't feel like the soundmatters fullstage will be that much better than the sharp sd-sp10 to justify double the cost. I was really looking at the ZVOX 325 but can't get over not having optical outputs. I have to go the 1.1 route so I guess it is the sharp for me. I REALLY wish I could try it out. I am just worried it isn't going to impress me or sound cheap when I get it setup. I only have a polk 3.1 setup right now so I don't have surround sound anyway. Hopefully it will be worth it for clutter reasons (and to make the wife happy)............


----------



## Crowdog

I bought the Yamaha YSP-800 last night at Electronic Express with a major discount on it....simply could not pass it up at the price.


Set it up today in an 18 x 19 living room without a sub woofer and it was a major improvement over TV's speakers.


I will be ordering the "matching" sub Yamaha makes to go with the 800 (YST-FWS 100) but I am quite satisified with the sound as it is.


Crow


----------



## YOTR

Can anyone in this thread that has had the Sharp SD-SP10 for a few weeks or more please post further impressions? I am about ready to pull the trigger on this one but wouldn't mind hearing from more people that are currently using it. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Allan2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YOTR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone in this thread that has had the Sharp SD-SP10 for a few weeks or more please post further impressions? I am about ready to pull the trigger on this one but wouldn't mind hearing from more people that are currently using it. Thanks in advance!



I couldn't get any info on the Sharp here (see my post above), but I ordered one and it should arrive tomorrow. If you don't get a response in the next few days hang around and I'll let you know what I think.


----------



## TF2006

I meant to answer all of the questions Allan2 asked but didn't get around to it sooner. I had hoped to test the two channel separation but....


1) How is the L/R channel separation? Without surround, is there a clear distinction between left and right channels? I tried the Mainstage HD and there was virtually no separation.


Sorry, I don't know. I didn't get a chance to test this (no idea what music to use that would have the channel separation and I can't find the manual which would remind me which mode to use for stereo).


2) Does the Sharp have an auto-off when there is no signal detected or does it have to be shut down manually?


The unit has to be shut down manually. You can do this using the remote or pressing the power button on the front.


3) How difficult would it be to mount the main speaker on a wall?

You would need to put it on a shelf on the wall. As someone else said, it's sized like a thick DVD player, so would need a shelf to support it.


And from QZ1: There is no Sharp SP-10 Owners Manual posted. For those who own this product, can you tell me the ventilation requirements?

Again, I can't locate my manual, but I think the requirements were for 5 inches around the sides and top. I have mine in a TV stand with about 2 inches on each side and 3 - 4 inches on top and it hasn't overheated yet.


----------



## YOTR

Well I decided to give the Polk Surround Bar a try. I got it for a great deal (Well under the recent price drop) so I took the plunge. I already have a receiver and a good sub. All I can say is that I am very pleased. It really works in our living room and ended up not being much more money than the Sharp unit. I know it's not really a home theater in a box (still have to buy a receiver and sub) but I definitely recommend it as an option. I am going to tweak it tonight but so far the surround sound is pretty convincing.


----------



## Allan2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TF2006* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I meant to answer all of the questions Allan2 asked but didn't get around to it sooner. I had hoped to test the two channel separation but....
> 
> 
> 1) How is the L/R channel separation? Without surround, is there a clear distinction between left and right channels? I tried the Mainstage HD and there was virtually no separation.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't know. I didn't get a chance to test this (no idea what music to use that would have the channel separation and I can't find the manual which would remind me which mode to use for stereo).



Thank you, but what I'm really interested in is tv & movies - can you discern movement from one side of the screen to the other - can you identify the location of sounds - that sort of thing. But as I said, I'll have one set up shortly anyway.


----------



## ksalmon

YOTR,


I would love to hear further impressions of the Polk Surround Bar. With the layout of my living room, I am not sure the Yamaha bar would work using its bounce technology.


----------



## YOTR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalmon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> YOTR,
> 
> 
> I would love to hear further impressions of the Polk Surround Bar. With the layout of my living room, I am not sure the Yamaha bar would work using its bounce technology.



I will tweak it further tonight/tomorrow and report back. I REALLY wanted the Yamaha YSP-800 but our living room layout wouldn't work with it (no left wall-opens up to kitchen and the right wall has a huge window). I almost pulled the trigger on the Sharp or Mainstage but realized that I still had a pretty good Onkyo Receiver and H-100 Acoustech sub I bought a few months ago..........so I thought why not give the Surroundbar a try. I will be sure and test music/movies and try and give at least a small update tomorrow.


----------



## sigity

Niro 620 Update.


I've now had the system for a week or two now, and I am thoroughly pleased. I actually rearranged my entire room to take advantage of it (my couch now lies directly in the sweet spot).


I've watched movies, 5.1 programming, listened to the Ipod, and even burned some sample 5.1 audio tracks and played them through the dvd player - its amazing how well the niro is able to handle all of these elements beautifully.


I would highly recommend the system for anyone who is considering a single speaker HTIB.


----------



## tolax

YOTR - I would be very interested to know what settings you end up configuring in your surroundbar. I have played a couple of times with my receiver/subwoofer settings but I am never quite sure I have it right. Be very interesting to know what you come up with.


Regards


tolax


----------



## QZ1

I had a difficult time getting approval for anything. But at least I can put the Zvox under my DVR.


Do think using a Zvox ~34" to the left of the TV, and ~11" below TV level, will produce convincing results, like the Sharp does?


(Maybe, if and when we get it, she might be ok with it on the dresser, but it would still be to the right somewhat.)


I really wanted the Sharp, but I can't find placement for the Speaker. (Since it appears it needs ventilation.) I can fit the Sub on the base of the DVR table.


If I get a Zvox, are there any slim width subs, like the Sharp's, that you would recommend to add?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

I doubt it needs ventilation. I am guessing it need room so that the speaker can radiate properly.


For a skinnier sub, go to ********** - I believe their X-series sub is skinny, and repped to be a good budget performer.


----------



## TTU33

I went to purchase this system from their website (the only place I could find it) and after you add it to the cart, a pop-up window comes up showing things that can be added on.


Things like a remote.

Cables

Instruction Manual



Does the system not come with a remote, cables, and instruction manual? I couldn't find any information on the site. If it doesn't, all three of those items add up to close to $100 extra dollars.


----------



## jrbatche

Sigity: Thanks again for the thourough review and follow-up.


Well, I think I've figured out what I'm doing now, so I thought I'd come back and share my findings. I picked up the YSP-800 and the 1100 at my local BB to test them out with my setup a week an a half ago.


First, I set up the 800. After setting it up and doing the configuration, I sat back to watch a movie. While it sounded nice, I was underwhelmed by the experience. It was better than my TV speakers, but it couldn't hold a candle to my pair of Klipsch floor speakers I was moving out of the room. Music sounded listless, and the surround effect didn't do much for me. While I knew it wouldn't be 5.1, I didn't think it really added anything to the proceedings.


So, disappointed, I took down the 800 and put the 1100 up in it's place. Expecting it to be a big step up (for $600 more it should be), I was again disappointed. It did sound better than the 800, but not that much better. And for whatever reason, my fiancee couldn't handle it being very loud with this speaker. It gave her a headache, and by the time it was set to a reasonable level for her, we may as well have kept the 800 up. I kept them both for a week, but for us they were not worth it, so they both went back to BB.


I knew pretty quickly I needed to find something else, so after reading Sigity's ongoing reviews I took a look at the Niro's. After looking at them for a while, I really wanted the 1000 speaker that incorporates the tweeters, but didn't want the sub amp that came with that set. I sent them an email asking about a custon config, and they were open to it, to my surprise. in the end I just went with the full 1000 kit (I went a bit over budget but hey, if I'm getting it I want to have it for a while).


(just a note, since I paid with a Mastercard, they had to do the transaction in Canadian currency, that's where the north american distributors headquarters are and since they had apparently just started doing this for the Niro's, they could only do Visa in US$. This ended up costing me about $40 US more for shipping than I had been expecting, which I have emailed them about this morning. The speakers got here without issue, so no worries on that front, but if anyone is interested I can update later about this when/if I hear back.)


Anyway, I finally got it and set it up. I'm a bit dissapointed that it uses proprietary connections, but I knew that going in, and though the wiring is built into the cabinet it looks to be fairly easy to hack your own if you so wanted, though there would proabably be no need unless the wire somehow got cut (it's five pair of connectors, one for each speaker in the cab).


First thing I tried was a CD as I got the rest of my wiring straightened out, and it sounded really good. I think the sub helped here, but even with it turned to about the lowest it could without turning it off completely, it sounded much fuller than the yamahas. Stereo TV sounded good if mundane, though I was watching a sitcom and everything was crystal clear, so I don't know if there is much more you can do with that. They had the Pearl Jam Storytellers on the hd MTV channel in 5.1, though, and that sounded spectacular. My fiancee even chimed in that it was much, much better than either of the yamahas we had the week before, plus no headaches. Everything was crystal clear and it sounded like you were there, for lack of a better way to describe it. I'm really looking forward to putting in a few more of my concert DVDs. I tried a bit on my XBox 360 after, and that sounded great considering I had the volume really low at that point. I haven't tried a movie yet, and haven't turned up the volume too much, but so far my SO approves, and I'm liking it a lot.


Looking at my experiences, I think the lack of any sub presence on the yamahas really hurt them. With a good sub, the 1100 would probably be pretty good, but I think the 800 would be outmatched by any decent sub (at least the active one I used to have set up, worked great with my floor speakers, though). Then again, the 1100 was out as soon as my fiancee heard it at a slightly elevated volume, basically (and what fun is T2 without the LOUD). I was reluctant to get a sub based on my circumstances, but the Niro provides enough bass management that I'm able to do as much or as little with it as I please. Mids and highs sound much more natural than the yamahas, and the surround effect, while not trying for the exact positional audio of the Yamahas, is nice enough and sounded great with decent 5.1 sources from what i could tell (i.e. the Pearl Jam mentioned earlier). I'm going to keep playing with it, and will try some movies tonight when I get home. Right now, though, I can't wait to get home to mess around with it, and I cannot say the same about the yamahas when i had them.


Wow, that was long. Sorry again, I seem to ramble when I get going (I've been working on this off and on from this morning). Hope this helps someone.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Glad you found a product you like (at least so far). I gotta agree, a sub is a MUST with the yamaha's.


----------



## JPPhil

Hi, folks,


Well, I came in here to look at HD Radio and found this thread. Thought I'd delurk and just say that I really like my Bose 3-2-1 GS System II. Not to start any flames or anything, but it suits me well. I had just bought a Sony 40" LCD and wanted some decent audio to go with it, and the Bose fit the bill. My room is basically a small-ish walk-through room, with a sliding-glass patio door, big opening to the kitchen, TV in the corner, other corner is open to the hallway and living room, so trying to figure out how to hang a true 5.1 system just wasn't going to work.


Had about a dozen folks over for a Super Bowl party, and everybody thought the setup worked great - sounded great, looked great, etc. The single optical-in was all I needed, driven right off the DirecTV HD DVR, and the RCA - in jacks from the TV were sufficient to hear VCR stuff and off-air HD channels just fine. I'm thinking of adding an HD radio tuner some day, and the AUX input will serve my needs there, too.


Anyway, I know there's folks around who don't think much of the Bose stuff, but I just figured it wouldn't hurt to post a favorable opinion when one was warranted. And, no, I don't work for Bose, or sell the stuff, or have friends or relatives who do, either.


I'm happy to listen to anybody else's opinion, but for now, I'm going to go home from work and watch some recorded TV from last night!


Phil


----------



## Kenage

jrbatche, How much after you ordered the Niro did it take to get to your home? On the website it lists it as on pre-order and I worry about how long it would take to get to me. I really like the Niro package and do not know if I can wait until they come out with the Klipsch & Soundstage systems to see which one is best.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JPPhil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi, folks,
> 
> 
> Well, I came in here to look at HD Radio and found this thread. Thought I'd delurk and just say that I really like my Bose 3-2-1 GS System II. Not to start any flames or anything, but it suits me well. I had just bought a Sony 40" LCD and wanted some decent audio to go with it, and the Bose fit the bill. My room is basically a small-ish walk-through room, with a sliding-glass patio door, big opening to the kitchen, TV in the corner, other corner is open to the hallway and living room, so trying to figure out how to hang a true 5.1 system just wasn't going to work.
> 
> 
> Had about a dozen folks over for a Super Bowl party, and everybody thought the setup worked great - sounded great, looked great, etc. The single optical-in was all I needed, driven right off the DirecTV HD DVR, and the RCA - in jacks from the TV were sufficient to hear VCR stuff and off-air HD channels just fine. I'm thinking of adding an HD radio tuner some day, and the AUX input will serve my needs there, too.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I know there's folks around who don't think much of the Bose stuff, but I just figured it wouldn't hurt to post a favorable opinion when one was warranted. And, no, I don't work for Bose, or sell the stuff, or have friends or relatives who do, either.
> 
> 
> I'm happy to listen to anybody else's opinion, but for now, I'm going to go home from work and watch some recorded TV from last night!
> 
> 
> Phil




Wow,, you are a brave soul,, posting positive on AVS about a 321, and on your first post no less.


For the record, I have owned a few 321's and really do like them as well.

In the right room and given the right set-up and with limited options for mounting rear speakers the 321 can be a great choice.


Enjoy your system and dont let the Bose bashers get you down.


Davyo


----------



## jks52




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TTU33* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went to purchase this system from their website (the only place I could find it) and after you add it to the cart, a pop-up window comes up showing things that can be added on.
> 
> 
> Things like a remote.
> 
> Cables
> 
> Instruction Manual
> 
> 
> 
> Does the system not come with a remote, cables, and instruction manual? I couldn't find any information on the site. If it doesn't, all three of those items add up to close to $100 extra dollars.



I bought my unit directly from Sharp and yes, it does come with all of those items.


----------



## Allan2

I've been using the Sharp SP10 for a few days now and have the same complaint that I had about the Mainstage HD - there is virtually no Left / Right channel separation. I'm trying the unit with an HD TV and while the sound is fine and there is even some noticeable difference in "depth" when using various surround settings, all sound generally seems to come from one place.


The connection I'm using most is from an HD Tivo (with the default output changed to Dolby Digital) using a direct connection to the Sharp with a toslink cable. One "test" I used was playing the Dooby Brothers' "Black Water" (through the tivo via network connection to my PC). At about 3+ minutes into the song there should be a very clear and distinct LEFT - RIGHT delineation, with vocals alternating between the two channels. There was no such effect from the Sharp - everything was pretty much "centralized".


I realize that it's difficult to get a great deal of L/R separation using only one speaker, but I expeted _something_. When listening to a movie in 5.1 or DTS (the Sharp decodes both) I'd like to be able to hear the sound placement as intended. Has anyone using this speaker found different results? I'd love to hear from other owners. Thanks.


----------



## jrbatche

Kenage: I ended up sending them an email asking them when they'd be coming off pre-order, and they wrote back saying that some of the systems are available to order over the phone now. Send them an email or call the number on the site and let them know which one you're interested in. They were pretty responsive by email, but they were more helpful than expected by phone, the guy I talked to on the phone (Kevin) was reasonably knowledgable about the setups.


FYI, the number on the website goes to DBI Distributors, but since they just took over distributing the Niro in NA the website apparently isn't fully integrated and they don't have much stock, it's just info for now, hence pre-order for just about everything.


Also, if you are going to order, do so with a Visa card if you can so you don't have to worry about exchange rates. After my credit card was charged (that took a day, as since it was a large amount charged from canada, I had to call my card and remove the hold on the transaction), it took about 5 days to arrive. They ship out of New York on UPS ground, so your mileage may vary on that depending where you are. Hope that helps


----------



## JPPhil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow,, you are a brave soul,, posting positive on AVS about a 321, and on your first post no less.
> 
> 
> For the record, I have owned a few 321's and really do like them as well.
> 
> In the right room and given the right set-up and with limited options for mounting rear speakers the 321 can be a great choice.
> 
> 
> Enjoy your system and dont let the Bose bashers get you down.
> 
> 
> Davyo



Thanks, Davyo. Back in the early '70's when I had my first college teaching gig (Music Department), I had a pair of the Bose bookshelf speakers. I thought they sounded pretty good back then. Since then, I had bought a pair of the original Advent Legacy speakers, and later a pair of black Minimus 7's for surround and a nice wood-grain Minimus 7 for my center channel. It's all now in the basement, and still does the Dolby Pro-Logic stuff pretty convincingly.


But, that's off-topic for here. I still like my 321, it all fits in my corner cabinet, and sounds as good as the Sony TV looks. I suppose it wouldn't pass many technical tests, but it has a real good sound to my ears, and that's what I care about, anyway!


Phil


----------



## QZ1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YOTR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was really looking at the ZVOX 325 but can't get over not having optical outputs.



What would be the benefit?


Also, does anyone have the Zvox 325?

If so, please give a review.


----------



## dannynguyen3573

I just unpack my Niro 620 yesterday. The packet is nice. When I listen the music, sound great but watch the movie the speaker sound good except for the sub. Sound coming out to tide , not much vibration. Everything els is perfect. I don't know if my set up was right?

Could some one tell me ther set up in the amplifi like what is the number of DB on Sub, Bass, treble...etc.


Thanks


----------



## Kenage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrbatche* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kenage: I ended up sending them an email asking them when they'd be coming off pre-order, and they wrote back saying that some of the systems are available to order over the phone now. Send them an email or call the number on the site and let them know which one you're interested in. They were pretty responsive by email, but they were more helpful than expected by phone, the guy I talked to on the phone (Kevin) was reasonably knowledgable about the setups.
> 
> 
> FYI, the number on the website goes to DBI Distributors, but since they just took over distributing the Niro in NA the website apparently isn't fully integrated and they don't have much stock, it's just info for now, hence pre-order for just about everything.
> 
> 
> Also, if you are going to order, do so with a Visa card if you can so you don't have to worry about exchange rates. After my credit card was charged (that took a day, as since it was a large amount charged from canada, I had to call my card and remove the hold on the transaction), it took about 5 days to arrive. They ship out of New York on UPS ground, so your mileage may vary on that depending where you are. Hope that helps



That is exactly what I needed to know. Thanks a million man. So do you still like the system and do movies really sound close to a true 5.1?


----------



## dannynguyen3573

pump for my post.


----------



## kingsmoit

Well, thanks to the mention of it here in this thread, I ended up by the Sharp unit to go with my 32" Samsung LCD. Plan on putting it in a bedroom, so I wanted something small.


I have to say, I'm impressed with it. It's certainly not a true surround system, but for the price, compared to what I heard from the Polk on display at tweeters / CC, I'm happy.


I do agree about the separation issues mentioned above along with the lack of true surround. But for anyone like me who wants a small footprint, I doubt I could have done better than this for $330.


I just wanted to give my input on it: sounds good for movies, and for music off my Sirius receiver. Haven't run anything of higher quality than the satellite for music though.


----------



## TTU33

I have a Pioneer 5070 Plasma

A Toshiba A-2 Hi Def DVD Player

DirecTV HD DVR

DAV-x1v Sony virtual surround (will purchase soon).


I need to order cables to connect all of these things but since I have never set anything up before besides running cables from a source to a TV...I'm having problems understanding how to hook in the sound.


Here is the explanation of the connectivity from CNET for the Sony Virtual Surround. I know the TV has 2 HDMI ports but I'm not sure on the others...but I'm sure they are all HDMI capable.


If you could review the paragraphs below...and give me some pointers on how to hook this all up...I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!



_The highlight of the DAV-X1V's connectivity options is its HDMI output, which upscales DVDs to 720p or 1080i resolution, making the images more potentially friendly for various HDTVs. For older TVs, composite, S-Video, and progressive/component outputs are still present. On the surface, meanwhile, the A/V inputs look promising. There are two A/V inputs, both of which offer a choice between composite or S-Video jacks and analog stereo or digital audio inputs. On the digital side, the Video 1 input lets you choose between optical or coaxial ins, while Video 2 is limited to coaxial only. Additionally, a third audio-only input dubbed TV is also available--your choice of analog or optical digital in. Rounding things out is the front minijack input, perfect for quick connections to portable audio players such as the iPod.


That's a pretty good connectivity suite for a home-theater-in-a-box system (HTIB), which is to be expected at the $1,000 price point. It means you can ostensibly use the X1V to switch between two other A/V devices--say, a cable/satellite box and a game console--plus an audio device or two. But there are two caveats. The composite/S-Video limitation means that you can't connect HD video sources. And, unlike the better HDMI-equipped A/V receivers, the DAV-X1V can't convert those video sources to any other format--composite video sources only output to composite video, and S-Video to S-Video. That means you'll have to run more cables to your TV (in addition to HDMI or component), and switch the TV's inputs accordingly. In other words, there's little advantage to using the X1V as a video switcher._


----------



## -EquinoX-

anyone who has tried the bose 3-2-1 and the niro, which do you think is better?


----------



## duer333




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Allan2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I realize that it's difficult to get a great deal of L/R separation using only one speaker, but I expeted _something_. When listening to a movie in 5.1 or DTS (the Sharp decodes both) I'd like to be able to hear the sound placement as intended. Has anyone using this speaker found different results? I'd love to hear from other owners. Thanks.



sorry i didn't answer your questions about the sharp earlier. i agree that the left/right separation is minimal on the system. if i am sitting in front of the system i do notice it, but it minimal as you move to either side. the "rear surround" is present on some 5.1/dts movies but also limited. i didn't have the greatest expectations for the virtual surround from one speaker so i wasn't too disappointed.

the biggest benefit of the system, as i see it, is the quality of the sound in such a small package. it sounds great, but if you really want a surround sound experience i think that you have to go to a 5.1/6.1 set-up.

overall i would say that i'm pleased with the system and would recommend it.


----------



## mbrody

I have been reading this thread and other reviews extensively. I'm getting a Panasonic 50' plasma for a living room that is not very wide and has a fairly concentrated viewing area with couch and reclining chairs within 9-10 feet of the TV and where the audio components will sit. I don't want to have any rear wire speakers or even a lot of front speakers as I want my console to be fairly sparse in terms of equipment. That said, I'm down to choosing between the MainStage HD, the ZVOX 325, and a possible 3rd contender, the NIRO 620 (the 420 sounds too small for this application). This system will provide audio for the HDTV, a digital TV cable box, DVD player and a tabletop AM/FM w/music CD system. Auto on/off is key as I don't want to have to turn the HT unit on and off all the time every time I use the TV. The MainStage HD, ZVOX 325, and to some extent the NIRO 620 look fairly similar. I'm attracted by the simplicity of the ZVOX and the quality of its cabinet audio wise ... but on the other hand it lacks any digital inputs vs. the other two. If I went wit the ZVOX, my sense is that I'd put all of the audio/video from my DVD and digital cable box into the TV and then output audio from that to the ZVOX via the basic TV audio out with the tabletop AM/FM/CD using the second audio component input on the ZVOX. While in the case of the other two units, I'd run digital coax audio from both the DVD player and cable box over to either the MainStage or the NERO with video running directly to the TV via HDMI cables. Which means in this case, the audio volume ends up needing to be managed directly by the HT unit remote or a universal. The appeal of the ZVOX is its simplicity (all audio could be controlled using the TV remote) but the key question is whether pulling signal from the TV into it produces as good a quality audio as digital input into its two competitors. My thought is that the Panasonic 50' plasma is processing the audo signal from the incoming HDMI inputs so it should produce a solid signal out to the ZVOX. Anyhow, I'd value any comments or thoughts about these 3 units in comparison to one another and the question of non direct digital audio input into the ZVOX vs. optical input into the others. Thanks in advance for any insights as I'm very far from expert on these systems and this is my first HT-like piece of equipment. Comments especially on the ZVOX 325 would be helpful. Thanks!!!


Matt


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Dont' have first hand experience with any of the products you mention. I'll just encourage you not to forget the subwoofer - I think the Niro comes packaged w/one. With the Mainstage, you don't need to use their substage but should use a sub. Same for Zvox. It is a big part of the improvement you get IMO.


For obvious reasons ($$$) the niro is the better box of the 3, the Zvox is the most simplistic, and would be wired as you described. Bear in mind, your tv might need to be on if you want to listen to music with that setup.


----------



## astropuppy

mbrody ,


Not sure if anybody has mentioned the isonic by polk. It has a lot more features then the ZVOX. Has a dvd player. Add a sub and your done.

http://isonic.polkaudio.com/


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Astro-p:


That appears to not be a virtual surround sound system. It seems to have an enhanced stereo, but it doesn't seem to try to emulate (poorly or not) 5.0/5.1 surround sound.


----------



## mbrody




astropuppy said:


> mbrody ,
> 
> 
> Not sure if anybody has mentioned the isonic by polk. It has a lot more features then the ZVOX. Has a dvd player. Add a sub and your done.
> 
> 
> 
> ** Thanks for this. A very interesting looking system but the lack of the DVD HDMI upconvert is an issue for me given the integral DVD player. The Polk Soundbar looks equally interesting on the same site. Thanks for the link!
> 
> 
> Matt


----------



## Allan2

I've tried the Mainstage HD and the Sharp SP-SD10 and ended up returning both. While both units have very nice sound, there is virtually no Left / Right channel separation. That's a big deal to me. Obviously it's because in a small unit the speakers are so close together, but I'd hoped that the technology incorporated into these products would allow for some level of separation. The folks at Soundstage say there is a new speaker in the pipeline that should address this issue - waiting anxiously


----------



## astropuppy

I have read this thread since dc_pilgrim started it and all that seems to happen is I get more confused and resist making any decision at all. I offered up the I-Sonic has an alternative. As a result of my indecision, my very old pro-logic unit is still in use in our family room.


I'm beginning to think the best alternative is a receiver with virtual surround using the speakers and Sub I already own.


I really didn't mean to steer this thread off course.


----------



## QZ1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Allan2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've tried the Mainstage HD and the Sharp SP-SD10 and ended up returning both. While both units have very nice sound, there is virtually no Left / Right channel separation. That's a big deal to me. Obviously it's because in a small unit the speakers are so close together, but I'd hoped that the technology incorporated into these products would allow for some level of separation. The folks at Soundstage say there is a new speaker in the pipeline that should address this issue - waiting anxiously



Any ETA and/or Preview on this new product?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

If soundstage = soundmatters - - then expect delays. The Mainstage HD was at delayed about a year from when they said it would release. In general, I don't think its worth waiting for breakthrough products at this point.


That said, I need to add to the list, but panasonic had a 3.1 system with media storage at CES that looked neat:



> Quote:
> The new model, SC-PTX7, also incorporates 1080p video conversion and Panasonic's twin-center 3.1 surround-sound speakers, which use vertically oriented dual center-channel drivers to precisely localize sound at the center of flat-panel, big-screen televisions.
> 
> 
> The SC-PTX7 has an 80GB HDD which can store, organize and play music from a vast variety of digital and audio sources, perform onboard re-mastering of digital music files to restore frequencies lost during compression, features an advanced GUI navigation system for easy for quick and easy song finding and sorting, is XM Radio compatible, and allows different audio streams to be wirelessly transmitted to up to three rooms.


 http://www.audioholics.com/news/trad...r-audio-system 


Also, Astropuppy - technically I didn't start this thread, but its nice some one has read this thread along the way. I agree with your conclusion though. A receiver is going to give you the most flexibility in the future, you can use nice quality speakers, which will probably drive your audio experience a lot more than the trickery of a virtual device. Unless maybe if you have the perfect layout for the ysp. Or if you have other aesthic/convenience elements that drives the market for these devices.


----------



## QZ1

Are there any 2.1 systems with a slim sub, all in silver?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

The KEF fits that bill. Maybe the Denon.


----------



## QZ1

The KEF is strange looking, so I didn't consider it. I ilke the Denon, but unfortunately the sub is too wide. They were kind of expensive for use with this TV anyway. Thanks, though.


I guess I will go 1.1, probably the Sharp.


What cables come with the Sharp?

I am thinking I will need to buy an Optical cable?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Build your own with a receiver with virtual sound (look at the refurb denon's at ecost .com - don't use google checkout - they slow down the process and you may lose a promo price like I did yesterday - still really pissed about it), and the speakers and sub of your choice? I think the sub in the av123 .com's x-series is thinner, and liked, for budget choices. Same with the matching speakers.


----------



## astropuppy

dc_pilgrim,

Are you buying yet another ~2.1 system, Amp and speakers this time? Do you happen to know a Denon model number which has virtual surround? I was eying the AVR1506; But, really, like the idea of a digital amp.


For me music isn't a consideration. We have a separate sound system in the living room. This purchase is for movies in the family room and has to be simple enough for the - primary watchers - wife and kids to operate.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Actually - I was looking for a 5.1 receiver (or 7.1) as a holdover while HDMI gets sorted out. I am building a dedicated room in the basement. Still looking, actually, and considering separates also.


I just noticed when I was looking in the bargain bin that a lot of Denon's have a "virtual surround" mode. Not sure it is DVS ("Dolby") like they use in the S101/S301 or something proprietary. The Harmon Kardans (sp?) (the x35 or later) which have DVS.


If you want a digital amp, the JVC's have a proprietary virtual surround sound mode. They are inexpensive - so you have some of the 'get what you pay for' concerns. And they reportedly run hot. ecost has refurbs at a good price.


Good luck,


----------



## fireballz

I created another thread about the Panasonic SC-PTX7 , but may as well put it here too 'cause I'm really excited about it







! Perhaps you can add it to your list too, dc_pilgrim.


"Panasonic unveiled a multi-source, multi-room surround-sound system with an integrated high-capacity hard-drive music jukebox at CES today. The new model, SC-PTX7, also incorporates 1080p video conversion and Panasonic's twin-center 3.1 surround-sound speakers, which use vertically oriented dual center-channel drivers to precisely localize sound at the center of flat-panel, big-screen televisions.


The SC-PTX7 has an 80GB HDD which can store, organize and play music from a vast variety of digital and audio sources, perform onboard re-mastering of digital music files to restore frequencies lost during compression, features an advanced GUI navigation system for easy for quick and easy song finding and sorting, is XM Radio compatible, and allows different audio streams to be wirelessly transmitted to up to three rooms.


These systems provide a host of innovative features, such as the ability to automatically analyze songs and create play lists based on mood or energy level.


The next-generation performance and features of the Jukebox Theater are matched to the Panasonic's Twin-Center 3.1 surround sound speakers, designed to address the problem that the larger the screen gets, the farther a speaker mounted below or above it is from the display's vertical center and the more the sound output from that speaker seems to be coming from below or above the picture. Panasonic's twin-center design, with two center-channel streams are designed to meet in the center of a big-screen display to eliminate the unnatural sounding dialog common when traditional center-channel speakers are used with flat panel or rear-projection big screens.


The complete 3.1 speaker system shipped with the Jukebox Theater model includes bass-ported left and right speakers, center-channel speakers with computer-designed directional reflectors integrated into the left/right speaker enclosures, and a high-power, long-throw subwoofer.


The Panasonic Jukebox Theater system also features EZ-Sync HDAVI Control one-touch operation with Panasonic Plasma televisions, Dolby Virtual Speaker support, DTS decoding, and integrated HDMI, Ethernet, portable music player and XM Radio ready port.


The SC-PTX7 is expected to ship in April with an SRP of $799.95."

Audioholics Article


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Fireballz - I think that is a neat product also. I had mentioned it in post #449. I will add it to post #3 soon.


----------



## studdad

Hey everyone:


I cannot find a good HTIB in a 2.1 system, so wonder if you guys have any ideas. I am upgrading to Directv HD, with an HD DVR. A 5.1 system is out of the question, unless it has wireless rears, and from what I have seen on these boards, there are not any good wireless rears at this time. It would be nice if the 2.1 system could be upgraded to a 5.1 system with wireless rears in the future. Since I am going HD, I would like a system that has multiple HDMI inputs/outputs, and for those channels without HD, I would like HD upscaling. I must also have the ability of good virtual surround. My room is about 20X18, so pretty large....i.e., I would need a relatively powerful receiver. Can anyone help me? Does anyone have a similar situation and a system they purchased and enjoy??


Thanks,


George


----------



## dc_pilgrim

George - did you see Post #3 in this thread?


Multiple HDMI ports might be tricky with the current offerings. I'd look at the receivers with a virtual surround mode (Harman Kardan and Denon come to mind but you need to read the feature set for each), and pair them with speakers and subs of your choosing.


The upside is you will get more flexibility, product offerings and expandability. Downside you need to research each piece.


----------



## fatboy007

Has anyone tried out the new 2007 Niro lineup? 420/620/800/1000 priced at $695/995/1195/1595 respectively.


----------



## bernielike

I like the Niro 620 (or 800? I can't decide yet) for a few reasons:


I am looking for a very modern, uncluttered setup for a 20x12 room and a 46" LCD, and I like the look of the Niro w/the TV mount. The amp also includes better hookup options than the Yamahas. It also has a very classic, European clean black look that reminds me of Blaupunkt Car Stereos that will last. And it comes with a sub for $1000 total (620) or $1200 (800).


I also prefer the Niro to Denon because it has no DVD player. Seems like that could make this system last for many years, as i move it to second bedrooms, home office, or whatever down the road. Won't have to deal with having some old DVD player, I could just depend on this system for sound and use whatever media playback format is avail more prevalently -- HDDVD, BluRay, whatever.


Any opinions on going for the 620 or the 800?


----------



## vjoe

What happened to the Sharp SD-SP10? It doesn't look like it is for sale anymore at the Sharp website.


----------



## drabek

Before I commit to buying one, has any SD-SP10 user programmed their TiVo remote to control this unit? I want my wife to be able to adjust the volume and turn it on/off without disrupting her routine.


Also, I have only seen this for sale on E-Bay. Where else might one find it?


----------



## TF2006

I still see the product listed here as available:
http://www.sharp-cart.com/ecom/categ...htm?cat_id=890 


Or you can link to that page from here:
http://www.sharpusa.com/SharpDirect/Home/


----------



## sigity

bernielike, fatboy


I own a Niro 620 and am quite pleased with it. It sounds great, fits perfectly into my setup, and looks great.


Its the center of my entertainment system - I have my ipod hooked up via a dock, hdmi dvd player, 50 inch vizio, and my comcast dvr - everything is routed via optical cables (except the ipod, of course).


I would highly recommend the niro, if you scroll back a few pages, you will see a more detailed review i did of the system.


good luck!


----------



## QZ1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TF2006* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still see the product listed here as available:
> http://www.sharp-cart.com/ecom/categ...htm?cat_id=890
> 
> 
> Or you can link to that page from here:
> http://www.sharpusa.com/SharpDirect/Home/



Nope, it still isn't there.


----------



## ChrisFix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QZ1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, it still isn't there.



Might need to refresh your browser's cache...I just followed these links, and it IS there.


----------



## TF2006

It seems to come and go. I was checking over the last week and it wasn't there (I do clear my cache every time a browser window is closed). Get it while it's there!


----------



## bernielike

sigity -- do you think I should get the 800 for only 200 bucks more? I really don't want to end up underpowered. Your 620 can hold up when you play music loudly?


thanks for the input . . .


----------



## drabek

Altec Lansing announced a new one-box model, the PT7031 for $600 a few months ago. It is similar to the Yamahas in having built-in processors/amplifiers and needing reflecting walls to create a good surround field. There is an additional model (PT8051) that includes a rear speaker unit for better surround sound.


They are a bit more compact than the Yamahas, so they might be well suited for small apartments and bedrooms.


These don't appear to be on the market yet. You can do a web search for PT7031 for more details.


----------



## atemplar

I've been reviewing this thread and have been leaning toward the Sharp SD-SP10 as a solution for my needs, but just saw that Onkyo offers a "Theater Dimensional" option that would let me line up 2+ of its speakers and get virtual surround similar to the 'one box sound' available from niro/mainstage/zvox/etc. The advantage, of course, would be down the line if I was so inclined, I could plug in additional speakers and position them around the room for a true surround system.


Any thoughts?


----------



## davyo

For what its worth a few days ago I ordered the new Philips Soundbar HTS8100 and should be getting it anyday now.


I shall make sure and post a little review on it sometime this coming week after I get it all set up and play with it.


It looks like it might be a nice system and does not require walls to bounce the sound off of.


Davyo


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Did a small update to the list at post #3. I am pretty much off the market for these devices, so please PM if I should add something to post #3. I still read the thread from time to time also.


----------



## Mitch1300

Anyone try out the Klipsch CS-300 2.1? I have a somewhat large room about 15 x 35 with an 8 foot roof. I watch TV from about 12 feet away and usually right in front of the TV. I was looking at the Bose 321, but after reading through this thread I am now fully confused. I am looking for something pretty simply since most of my TV watching is from my DirecTv Hd tivo unit I got a few years ago. I don't need a DVD player, just something that sounds surround.


----------



## GooglyBear

imo.. all these "Virtual" setups boil down to one thing.. how good is the "Surround" effect, aka channel seperation..


Originally, I bought the MainstageHD due to cnet's gleaming review.. it was cost-effective and had a great review rivaling the are-you-insane-yamahas.. but eventually two things led to me buying another setup

1. no volume display on soundmatters

2. barely any channel seperation whatsoever










now, it's rare.. hard to track down.. maybe even impossible to actually acquire.. but I tracked down a Sharp SD-SP10.. and frankly, I LOVE IT..

-it has better channel seperation than the mainstageHD

-it has the subwoofer already

-VERY COST EFFECTIVE

-nice configuration modes.. I love the "Intelligent volume" which basically normalizes levels for late-night viewing (this is also good to be able to handle multiple sources without having to constantly lower/heighten the volume)


but yea, imo.. for the price, you can't beat it.. I for one am lovin my Sharp!


----------



## QZ1

The instructions of the Sharp SD-SP10 aren't posted.

I see it doesn't have any top vents, so I was thinking of putting my DVR on top of it.

Do the instructions mention if any _top_ ventilation is needed? Or for sound dispersion?

I think left and right sides have vents and need clearance for venting and sound dispersion, I would think.


----------



## stephenju




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QZ1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The instructions of the Sharp SD-SP10 aren't posted.
> 
> I see it doesn't have any top vents, so I was thinking of putting my DVR on top of it.
> 
> Do the instructions mention if any _top_ ventilation is needed? Or for sound dispersion?
> 
> I think left and right sides have vents and need clearance for venting and sound dispersion, I would think.



I did manage to find the Japanese manual from Sharp Japan site. It does mention you need to leave at least 10cm on all sides.


----------



## GooglyBear




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QZ1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The instructions of the Sharp SD-SP10 aren't posted.
> 
> I see it doesn't have any top vents, so I was thinking of putting my DVR on top of it.
> 
> Do the instructions mention if any _top_ ventilation is needed? Or for sound dispersion?
> 
> I think left and right sides have vents and need clearance for venting and sound dispersion, I would think.



I'm thinking you could.. the top of the unit is flat and really..

there's a fan in the back







so keep that unblocked and you should be fine..


but why would you put something on top of it..? it should be angled so that it is pointed directly where you normally would be sitting at.. hard to tilt it with its legs if your heavy dvr is on top of it..


hmm


----------



## QZ1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GooglyBear* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm thinking you could.. the top of the unit is flat and really..
> 
> there's a fan in the back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so keep that unblocked and you should be fine..
> 
> 
> but why would you put something on top of it..? it should be angled so that it is pointed directly where you normally would be sitting at.. hard to tilt it with its legs if your heavy dvr is on top of it..
> 
> 
> hmm



I know, but I am dealing with placment issues due to WAF.

I get almost carte blanche for A/V in the den, but not the other rooms.

















The end table is just to the left of the dresser, and slightly lower.

The only way I can see this working is to put the future DVR on the dresser; I will have to test out our den DVR there to see how it looks.

I knew I could angle the Sharp, now you say I could angle it upwards; so it should sound good, I would think.


----------



## CoyoteTeacher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QZ1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only way I can see this working is to put the future DVR on the dresser; I will have to test out our den DVR there to see how it looks.
> 
> I knew I could angle the Sharp, now you say I could angle it upwards; so it should sound good, I would think.



I also had WAF issues with two DVRs (one TiVo and one HD Comcast) plus a ZVox speaker. My solution was to mount the DVRs flat to the back of the dresser and then buy an IR receiver to route the remote signals back there. This also solved the noise problems presented by the DVRs' fans.


The ZVox is pretty much designed for an LCD TV to sit upon with no ventilation issues, one of the reasons I went that route.


----------



## JN99

Well, it took all of about 5 seconds of listening to the Bose 321 system to rule it out. Complete and utter garbage - I have a $59 boom box with better sound - seriously. I might simply forego having "faux" surround for this setup and go with stereo only because all the 2.1 systems sound pretty poor, especially for music. I did see and listened to a Sony 2.1 system (not sure what it was though) and found it to be FAR superior in sound to the Bose at nearly half the price.


----------



## banditt101




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry that there is another victim of shoddy Binaura parts. Plughplover is the expert on reviving these things. Search this thread for his posts for the specifics on his repairs. If memory serves he listed the part numbers needed.
> 
> 
> Didn't realize that their website was taken down. I guess this company is defunct. You can see some of their stuff via google cache.
> 
> 
> These might have some leads on the warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have pdf of the claim form, I think it was sent to a canadian company for service. But appears that I don't have that anymore. It was a one year warranty, and you'd need your receipt (and possibly the original box depending on how it read) and you'd pay shipping. If you are good at soldering, DIY is probably your best service.





My Binaura also failed this week. I can't expect much from them so I will carry out the repairs with someone in my own city that understands these things about but caps and so on. Can you please tell me ever single piece that I should request the technician to change even if it isn't broken. Are they all in the Subwoofer box or speaker? My 5.1 first started acting strange. The sound would come and go (muffled at times) and finally no sound. Here's the funny thing, I've barely used it.

Thank you so much, this thread has given me hope.

Any help will be much appreciated.


----------



## banditt101

Plughplover & dc_pilgrim I've sent you both a PM.


Thanks!


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JN99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, it took all of about 5 seconds of listening to the Bose 321 system to rule it out. Complete and utter garbage - I have a $59 boom box with better sound - seriously.



Interesting statements, how did you set the 321 up, what is your room shape, and what settings did you adjust ? (and you did this all in 5 seconds).

I ask those questions because Im guessin you did none of those things, those would be the things one would have to do to make a fair judgment or comment on any product.


As an owner of many full surround systems (Onkyo and Yamaha's just to name a few) I have also owned a few Bose Series II 321's systems and been quite happy and impressed with their sound.


In the right shaped room, set-up and dialed in properly the Bose 321 can sound really good.


Davyo


----------



## JN99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting statements, how did you set the 321 up, what is your room shape, and what settings did you adjust ? (and you did this all in 5 seconds).
> 
> I ask those questions because Im guessin you did none of those things, those would be the things one would have to do to make a fair judgment or comment on any product.



When something is as sonically inaccurate and the sound colored to the extent that it was with the speakers from the Bose 321, there is no need for additional testing. I am not speaking of their ability to create a surround effect, I am speaking of their sonic qualities, which are horrible and yes it took all of 5 seconds to determine that. Room setup has no affect on a speaker's sonic characteristics but it can affect bass response, imaging, etc.


Anyone shopping for speakers can make a determination of this quickly and rule out speakers before ever getting to the stage where setup, room acoustics, equipment pairing, cabling, etc. are taken into consideration.


----------



## plughplover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *banditt101* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My Binaura also failed this week. I can't expect much from them so I will carry out the repairs with someone in my own city that understands these things about but caps and so on. Can you please tell me ever single piece that I should request the technician to change even if it isn't broken. Are they all in the Subwoofer box or speaker? My 5.1 first started acting strange. The sound would come and go (muffled at times) and finally no sound. Here's the funny thing, I've barely used it.
> 
> Thank you so much, this thread has given me hope.
> 
> Any help will be much appreciated.



You're not the only one. I received a PM from someone else a few weeks ago; they decided to give the repair a whirl - haven't heard back...


In all units I've seen / heard about, the six caps I discussed in earlier posts (2 on each of the two amplifier boards, and 2 on the middle board in the other stack - all in the woofer unit) were leaking so they should be replaced regardless. As far as anything else - no way to say. If there was secondary damage (like the blown resisters in my unit - see previously posted pics) you'll just have to track it down.


Side note to other Binaura owners - at the first sign of trouble stop using the unit to minimize the chance of secondary failures.


FWIW, based upon your description, I'd guess the caps on the amplifier board(s) have failed in your unit.


various comments:


Getting the thing apart is the biggest pain (in particular the three board stack).


Use a marker to 'tag' (ie draw a line across) the cable connections. Most are unique, but there are a few identical ones - if you get them wrong, your lines won't match up.


If at all possible, physically inspect replacement caps before purchase, to insure they'll fit in the available space. Higher voltage rating ok, but keep same capacitance.


Make sure you insert the electrolytic caps with the correct polarity - there is a '+' and '-' on the boards and on the caps.


As I recall, there are fuses wired onto the amp boards; in your case you should probably make sure they are still 'ok'.


Good luck!


----------



## ubik

I was poking around the Yamaha website today looking at A/V receivers and info on the YSP-800 and YSP-1100 when I stumbled across some pages for a YSP-3000 (retail $1199.95) and YSP-4000 (retail $1799.95).


These look pretty interesting with some new features including two new audio modes: 5 channel stereo mode and "My Surround" which seems similar to "My Beam" but is not really explained. Also new are HDMI inputs/output with analog upscaling to 1080i/720p, XM radio integration, and an FM tuner.


Has anyone heard anything about these yet? Searching the internet comes up with nothing. Since I can't actually remember how I navigated to them and I don't have URL posting privileges yet, I haven't included the full links but you should be able to pull up the pages by substituting the following in the URL for one of the Yamaha YEC product detail pages.


YSP-3000

?CNTID=556968&VNM=WORKING


YSP-4000

?CNTID=556966&VNM=WORKING


----------



## davyo

Thanks much "ubik" for posting that info, I was getting ready to purchase another YSP unit and was hoping for a new up-graded YSP.


Thanks again very much for your posting.

Davyo



the YSP-3000

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...68&VNM=WORKING 


the YSP-4000

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...66&VNM=WORKING


----------



## ubik

Thanks for putting in the proper links for me, however, I wouldn't be surprised if they go dead in the near future since those product pages probably aren't meant to be viewed yet by the general public.


I'm actually most interested in the Sharp SD-SP10 system, but have been unable to find anywhere that actually sells it.


----------



## klas

I've spent quiet a bit of time today trying to find Sharp SD-SP10 system and the end result was unsuccessful. I've even called Sharp and they told me that the item is sold out and been discontinued. In the end I decided to get Samsung HT-X200 2.1 Channel Home Theater System from CC. It's essentially same price, has HDMI in/out, optical in, DVD player etc...


----------



## klas

I've tried 2 setups already, started with Panasonic 1050, then got Samsung HT-X200 and luckily I've found SD-SP10 for sale for $299!!! which is currently on order.


----------



## EvanATL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *klas* /forum/post/11358800
> 
> 
> I've tried 2 setups already, started with Panasonic 1050, then got Samsung HT-X200 and luckily I've found SD-SP10 for sale for $299!!! which is currently on order.



Klas - where'd you find the SD-SP10? I'd like to get one as well, and that sounds like a pretty good deal.


Thanks!


Evan


----------



## klas

Sears online!


----------



## klas

Just checked and it's again "Out of stock". I ordered it yesterday. I guess they get only a few of those at a time and sell out pretty fast, so check often. Prior to that I checked with local Sears stores, but none of them had it.


----------



## EvanATL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *klas* /forum/post/11374533
> 
> 
> Just checked and it's again "Out of stock". I ordered it yesterday. I guess they get only a few of those at a time and sell out pretty fast, so check often. Prior to that I checked with local Sears stores, but none of them had it.



Thanks! I will keep an eye on it!


Brgds


Evan


----------



## tjmontano

I have been looking everywhere for the sd sp10 Sharp. Man it is hard to find. I hope sears gets some more in.


----------



## klas

yeah, I was lucky to snag one.


unfortunately, I missed the delivery today.


btw, if I don't like it I may end up returning it


----------



## tjmontano

Klas if that is the case, and you decide it is not for you, please PM me and I will be interested in purchasing it from you.



On another note, it is interesting that I have found it for sale in bundles with a 40 + inch Sharp TV. I called both sellers, one on ebay and the other on shopping at NBC and they say that they cannot seperate it from the bundle to sell to me individually.










Maybe I get lucky somehow?


----------



## EvanATL

Klas - I'm actually hoping you like it, and that more become available! Do let us know how you find it. The way my living room is configured, a 5.1 system will probably never be an option for me, so this would be a great solution for me if it works as well as advertised. I know not to expect 5.1-caliber results... but right now I have one of the early Zvox units and I've never been very impressed by it.


Thanks!


E


----------



## Uncle_Joe

Does anyone have any experience with the Onkyo CS-V720S? I'm looking for something in the $300-500 range for my wife's small office -- the little information on this tells me that it might be the thing. She's been looking at the $150-200 cuties and I'm trying to get something that actually sounds good -- primarily CDs, but DVD/AV would be a big plus.


----------



## tjmontano









Klas~


Please post a review regardless. I haven't heard anything negative about this unit besides it being impossible to find. I am curious to how well it sounds and fits with you.


----------



## klas

I got the unit yesterday, but didn't have time to play with it much. We just watched the DivX movie which didn't have surround sound. The sound was fine, but I didn't turn it all the way up (I am trying to be a good neighbour







)


My setup:

Acer 5920G laptop that I use as Media Center connected via HDMI-HDMI to Sharp 46" 1080P LCD tv and SPDIF optical out from TV to Sharp unit.


I am not sure yet if it's a keeper not because of the sound, but because of the size of the unit. I can't really put it in front of TV because it takes too much space and being silver on black tv stand and black tv it stands out too much (which doesn't have WAF)

So my only option is to put it on tv shelf (underneath the tv) which is below ear level. I will have to set it at about 30 degrees and see how it performs. Stand by for that...


As far as everything else, it looks like a solid unit, I like that remote has a lot of options for controling the unit. (especially the sub 0-6 levels)


So the only thing that kinda disappoints me is form factor, Sound bar with subwoofer would've been a better option, but I don't see any good alternatives at affordable price


----------



## tjmontano

Yeah those sound bars get expensive for the good ones, yamah ~1000 bucks. Thanks for the review Klas and it sounds like it makes good sound. If you ever decide to part with it, please keep me in mind. I would be happy to take it off your hands seeing how hard these things are to find. Good luck and happy listening.


----------



## klas

btw, don't count on "Email when it's available" at Sears. I had it set before I bought it and never got email. I was just randomly checking until it showed up as In stock one day. (except now I get almost daily emails from Sears about current offers... arg!) I only been looking for it two days though.


----------



## tjmontano

Thanks for the tip Klas. I got it bookmarked on my computer at many websites, but you should feel lucky to grab one. I hear great things about it and its a shame Sharp stopped production on these units. The only ones avaible come in 3,000 bundles with big LCD TV's. I all ready have a 42" westinghouse so I cannot do that, my wife would kill me. When you try out surround more with movies and play around with it, please post more.


TJ


----------



## klas

ok, I have good and bad news.


the good news is that it's a great little system for playing music as well. It even has enough kick for playing music loud.


Also, I discovered there are 2 popup stands on the bottom to allow setting the speaker at an angle (like some PC keyboards have it)


the bad news is that I am keeping it







There isn't anything else that would be good enough at that price. ($327 after tax)


----------



## tjmontano

That sounds like good news all around. I will keep up my search for it.


----------



## klas

I am yet to try out "virtual surround", but I don't expect it to be the same as REAL 5.1 setup, but SDSP10 s a great improvement over stock TV speakers.


I really has nothing negative to say about it besides being silver color and having a fan in the back.


----------



## gforcebean

Here is my setup in the living room.

The room is 12 feet by 16.5 feet. I sit about 8 feet from the t.v.

42" Plasma

Upconvert DVD

Soon to get HD Direct TV


Looking for "2.1 Surround Sound" for around $500-$600. Looked at YSP-800 and 1100 (Sounds great but $$$), Niro 420 and 620 (420 may be too small for my room but $ is ok. 620 a bit $$ but may sound better) , Bose 321 and Bose Cinemate (actually used 321 in a cabin we rented didn't give me warm fuzzies (maybe the owner didn't have it set up right) Cinemete haven't heard all that great reviews). So far leaning toward Niro, but I live in NC. Company out of Canada, they don't do any retail store sales. So I can't demo it before I buy. Doing a trade show in Colorado and Vegas, but I can't make it. Have I overlooked anything?


----------



## HansB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforcebean* /forum/post/11504863
> 
> 
> Here is my setup in the living room.
> 
> The room is 12 feet by 16.5 feet. I sit about 8 feet from the t.v.
> 
> 42" Plasma
> 
> Upconvert DVD
> 
> Soon to get HD Direct TV
> 
> 
> Looking for "2.1 Surround Sound" for around $500-$600. Looked at YSP-800 and 1100 (Sounds great but $$$), Niro 420 and 620 (420 may be too small for my room but $ is ok. 620 a bit $$ but may sound better) , Bose 321 and Bose Cinemate (actually used 321 in a cabin we rented didn't give me warm fuzzies (maybe the owner didn't have it set up right) Cinemete haven't heard all that great reviews). So far leaning toward Niro, but I live in NC. Company out of Canada, they don't do any retail store sales. So I can't demo it before I buy. Doing a trade show in Colorado and Vegas, but I can't make it. Have I overlooked anything?




Yamaha YSP-800 prices have dropped down to your price range.....Amazon, Crutchfield, Vanns has these at below $600.


----------



## gforcebean

Got the 800 @ Best Buy $498. price matched Tweeter. sounds great. in process of building a shelf for it. will update soon......


----------



## gforcebean

Built the shelf for the YSP. Ran Auto. Calibration. Episode I pod racing scene. I hear the pod racers going from left to right. Regular tv good. haven't watched anything in 5.1 yet. Maybe once the new season of shows start. Incredible for just one unit and a sub.


----------



## tjmontano

Looks like Sears removed the Sharp 2.1 sd sp10 from the website. I guess there goes that hope.


----------



## pigskins

Trying to improve my sound, however I am limited as to what I can do, by cost, room layout, and desire to minimize wires. So I got the Zvox 325. It sounds nice, I know I can do better, but for the money it's a good unit. Unfortunately the only place I can put it is underneath the HR20 which is under a DVD player. Not good, too much heat. I could probably fit a Zvox Mini on top, sitting in front of the TV, but at what sacrifice of sound quality? The TV is an LG plasma, 50". Picture attached. Comments?


----------



## klas

sorry to hear that Sears no longer carrying it.


on the other hand, It's a great little unit and I love it. I did notice some issue related to Virtual Surround in one of the movies. I was watching Distirbia HD-DVD movie and with VS on I heard some noise artifacts in quiet dialog scenes that really bothered my hearing. Disabling eliminated the issue, but I will do more tests to see if there is really an issue with VS.


Anyone else who owns the unit can confirm this issue?


----------



## Regularguy

Anyone know anything about the Soundmatters "Slimstage".
http://www.soundmatters.com/ 


I really like the look of it... much lower profile than the Yamaha sound-bars. But I haven't yet seen an actual review.


Pretty high MSRP ($899 for the size I'd be buying), but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere to get an idea of the street price.


----------



## willmgordon

Anyone seen any sd-sp10s in the wild? I cant find them anywhere anymore and it would fit what I need perfectly, sigh...............


----------



## HansB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/11866746
> 
> 
> Anyone seen any sd-sp10s in the wild? I cant find them anywhere anymore and it would fit what I need perfectly, sigh...............



I've been looking at the SD-SP10 for a while like my buddy tjmontano, but am opting to tryout a new for 2007 Pioneer HTS-570 system via a current promo:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...408694,00.html 


It does spec out nicely:


Black Color


2.1/5.1 Flexibility


Pioneer's 2.1 DSP version of Sharp's "Dolby Virtual Surround/Audistry" called "Front Stage Surround Advanced"


FM Tuner!


Small footprint for Controller


4 Inputs: 1 Coaxial, 2 Optical, 1 Composite (For Wii users like me)


Discrete codes on remote for inputs for programmable universal remote users


DD/DTS/DPL II Audio


Does have bare wire speaker connectors on speaker end for adding to longer runs and to use other 4/8 ohm speakers


Pioneer Plasma Compatibility


I do like the 2.1/5.1 flexibility and not being limited to the narrow soundstage of the SD-SP10. Footprint of the controller (as well as the speakers) is very small for placement as the amp/surround decoder is located in the sub. Not many reviews available so, two questions remain, how does it sound given the 3" drivers? The discrete inputs codes are a huge plus, but will I be able to find discrete power codes to use with my MX-850 universal remote?


Reviews anyone?


----------



## tjmontano

Yeah, me and HansB have been looking for a long time for the SD sp10 from Sharp. Everything I have heard says it has been discontinued. Good news from some sources says that they will have a newer model out sometime this year called the SD sp100. But I cannot find anything anywhere regarding this rumor. This was told to me buy a distributor who used to sell the Sp10 units. Anyways, I will be interested in hearing reviews from HansB regarding the quality of the Pioneer.


----------



## myunk

I just found this Pioneer HTS-570 myself. It looks to be a solution for me as I was looking at the Virtual Surround systems and just don't care for any of them. I tried a few of them myself. The Sharp sp10 is ok but just did not have that great of a surround sound effect. I tried the SoundMatters FullStage HD and it was better but still not that great for surround. The effect is only good if you are direclty in front of the unit. My Panasonic Plasma is wall mounted in a corner above a fireplace and these virtual surround solutions just did not work for me.


I am looking for reviews of this but I may just buy one and give it a go.


----------



## willmgordon

ok I know, take these with a grain of salt, but it gets 2 reviews of 5/5 on newegg. Both people enjoyed the autocalibration feature with the microphone, and one at least commented that the quality is good and the sub can be a floor shaker


----------



## myunk

Well I went ahead and bought one. It ships on Monday. I will report back with how it works out.


----------



## GooglyBear

keep us informed how it is compared to the others


----------



## davemcs

It seems at this time (2 1/2 years after this thread started) technology has changed somewhat and we are looking at a new market for all -in-one speaker setups.


Where we were looking at ZVOX and Bose 123's we now see products from some of the bigger players in the indusrty.


Can anyone provide real life experiences with :


Phillips Soundbar

any of the Yamaha YSP's

or even the new Niro Nakamichi Niro1000?


----------



## HansB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davemcs* /forum/post/11919870
> 
> 
> It seems at this time (2 1/2 years after this thread started) technology has changed somewhat and we are looking at a new market for all -in-one speaker setups.
> 
> 
> Where we were looking at ZVOX and Bose 123's we now see products from some of the bigger players in the indusrty.
> 
> 
> Can anyone provide real life experiences with :
> 
> 
> Phillips Soundbar
> 
> any of the Yamaha YSP's
> 
> or even the new Niro Nakamichi Niro1000?




Yes, it's nice to see some products worth a look for those locked into a front source.


The Niro 420/620/800/1000 look interesting. Look like big brothers to their older Niro 1.1 Pro. Priced from $695 - $1495 on their website.


Denon also has a new DHT-FS3 X-Sound Soundbar which is priced at $1199 on the street.


Nice to see more choices though most of these are pricey. If you're locked into a front source for sound, then one might be willing to spend that much.


The Pioneer unit is to be delivered today. Not expecting much considering it's cost...


----------



## tjmontano

Just a heads up that those Sharp sd-sp10 units have been selling on ebay lately. I got one for more than it cost brand new though. So, take your gamble if you are crazy to find one like me. There is one currently listed on ebay going for a lot. Good luck.


----------



## myunk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjmontano* /forum/post/11926859
> 
> 
> Just a heads up that those Sharp sd-sp10 units have been selling on ebay lately. I got one for more than it cost brand new though. So, take your gamble if you are crazy to find one like me. There is one currently listed on ebay going for a lot. Good luck.



Honestly, I would not buy one. I was not impressed with the one I bought and I returned it. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## HansB

I set up the Pioneer HTS-570 last night. Here are some initial impressions. I will live with this for a few weeks and see how it performs. At least I didn't pack it up right away and want to ship it back so that's a positive....


Unit was boxed nicely, two seperate boxes in the shipped box. One with the speakers, the other with the sub/amp.


Initial opinion was mixed….Fit and finish are great, all in a nice gloss black, and it better be since they advertise this as an accessory to their awesome Plasma Displays. But when I first looked at the speaker wires that came with this unit, I thought this has to be a piece of junk…..looks like 22AWG at most, the kind of speaker wire that comes with the lowest end of audio boom boxes.


There is sufficient speaker wire if you are doing a 2.1 system where one would consider cutting it so don’t worry about them being too short. The connectors to the sub/amp are proprietary, but the speaker end are bare wire.


I went ahead and connected all the speaker wires and the coaxial, two optical, and RCA jacks (to the Wii), set up the nifty little control box and powered it up.


Lo and behold it doesn’t sound too bad in the 2.1 mode once you tweak it a little. I have them set with all the speakers up front in a 42” wide HT armoire in a 12’ x 12” bedroom. LFE was a little pronounced out of the box and I ran their EQ analyzer using the enclosed mic and it smoothed out the LFE as I am assuming it set the sub’s volume to match the separates.


I listened to a couple of Tracy Chapman CD’s and they sounded okay in both 2 CH and surround modes. I then put it through some paces with some DVD’s I had lying around, Stealth and 300. Acoustically, I would put it up there with a mid to high end computer sound system, and comparable with the $500 HTIB 5.1 systems by Sony, Samsung, etc. There just wasn’t the depth that you would expect to hear with higher end components and speakers that have more frequency response, but what do you expect for $299? I don’t know where the crossover is with this set, and if the crossover can be changed, I would set it up a little higher. I’ll check into it later.


As far as the DSP, using the 2.1 Front Surround Mode in Focused and Wide field settings, with the speakers set in a stack 3 high……the sound field didn’t sound that great. Not surprisingly, it sounded more like a 2CH system and not the balanced front soundstage one would expect with movie watching with more separation between the sound sources. When I moved the Centers more towards the middle of the shelf, that made a significant difference in the balance of the front sound stage with the discrete center voicing and effects with L/R fill in.


The DSP surround effects on a two stack or three stack were not that great, but in a front source, that is to be expected. It was more of a wide surround, where the L/R surrounds seemed not to be coming from behind or directly to the side of your seated position but from the side halfway between your seated position and what you are viewing…..


I placed just the surrounds on top of the armoire and angled them outwards about 30 degrees and attempted to bounce the signal from those speakers of the side wall and actually got a better surround experience. That’s what the soundbars do, but it does require a symmetrical room.


Few notes:

When setting this up, after using the EQ analyzer that sets the system, I would increase the LFE a little, I like to run my sub a little hot, I like the feel and hear those explosions….


The limitation in the system are the 3” drivers. If one were to change out the speakers for others that are 4 ohm spec, especially the Center, it would sound better for sure….


There is a fan noise from the sub/amp unit, not too noisy but it’s there. Hopefully adds to the longevity of the unit….


Supplied remote functions flawlessly from a pretty wide angle, which would allow you to hide the small 2" x 6" control unit if you're going to use the supplied remote. But, I can’t find a discrete power on/off for my universal remote…..bummer. All other commands are great as they are learnable, there are discrete inputs on the remote so it’s almost a one button push to coordinate all my devices.


In a smaller room, this will do the job…….at this $300 price point, not much better out there.


----------



## 716chulo

HansB, Thanks for the detailed review. The Pioneer HTS-570 sounds like just what I am looking for to fill my small space with surround sound. You mentioned a price of $299. Is there some sort of coupon necessary to purchase at that price?


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davemcs* /forum/post/11919870
> 
> 
> It seems at this time (2 1/2 years after this thread started) technology has changed somewhat



Hey, hey who are you calling old?


I am getting lax on updating post #3, but do check on it from time to time.


But to your point, the yamaha and the Niro had precursor products back then. Each was then characterized by having more accurate surround in the right room (yamaha) and a richer, fuller sound (niro). I haven't seen much to suggest these product lines have changed their focus in the newer lines.


I like (not love) my yamaha ysp-800.


----------



## HansB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *716chulo* /forum/post/11935828
> 
> 
> HansB, Thanks for the detailed review. The Pioneer HTS-570 sounds like just what I am looking for to fill my small space with surround sound. You mentioned a price of $299. Is there some sort of coupon necessary to purchase at that price?




Check your PM...


----------



## willmgordon

Hey anyone with a YSP-800 did you get the Yamaha Sub or are you hooking up any old sub you have around? Would it make a big difference?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

The sub is one of the bigger differences. I used a HSU STF-2 - although I am running it w/o it now that I moved the Hsu downstairs. I hear the yamaha sub is pretty mediocre. I am on the market for a replacement for the den.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/11938010
> 
> 
> Hey anyone with a YSP-800 did you get the Yamaha Sub or are you hooking up any old sub you have around? Would it make a big difference?




Got a Sony sub hooked up to my YSP-800, think I paid about $100.00 for the sub at C.City, sounds really good for a cheepie sub.


Davyo


----------



## willmgordon

Davyo, you dont feel like you lost anything with a non yamaha? Looks from the manual that the yamaha has a second connection so the YSP can set it up with the postioning setup, is that not worth worrying about?


----------



## EvanATL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HansB* /forum/post/11936926
> 
> 
> Check your PM...



Hans,


I appreciate the detailed review as well. I'm looking into getting this. If there's a promotion you wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks!


Brgds


Evan


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/11944351
> 
> 
> Davyo, you dont feel like you lost anything with a non yamaha? Looks from the manual that the yamaha has a second connection so the YSP can set it up with the postioning setup, is that not worth worrying about?



LFE is non-directional. Use whichever sub you like.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmgordon* /forum/post/11944351
> 
> 
> Davyo, you dont feel like you lost anything with a non yamaha? Looks from the manual that the yamaha has a second connection so the YSP can set it up with the postioning setup, is that not worth worrying about?



Using a non-Yamaha sub will not make any difference, the YSP will set up just fine with any brand of sub.


Davyo


----------



## HansB

I did an install in entertainment armoire with a new 37" LCD and a Pioneer HTS-570 system.


It turned out nicely. The system will go louder than anyone would ever want to.


I put the details in the HTS-570 specific thread.


----------



## rkj357

Like most of you, I'm looking for an alternative to the traditional 5.1 due to space

constraints. The one-box and surround-bar solutions by Niro, Zvox, etc, look interesting.

However, something I have not seen discussed is the desireability/acceptability of

various DSP modes on an A/V receiver driving conventional speakers in a 2.1 or 3.1 setup.

This would allow one to avoid the wiring issues while enjoying the drawbacks of

"pseudo-surround", but allow one to utilize existing speakers, subs, DVD players,

CD changers, especially since many of these "one-box" solutions do not allow that

many input options. Also, using a modern A/V receiver allows one to use it in the

future should it become possible to add surround speakers.


Rick


----------



## tjmontano

Ok, I own the sharp sd sp10 and I think it is a great system, especially for the price. My question is there a way I can connect my surround sound headphones to the sharp reciever? Is there any outputs for sound connections on this thing. I saw one that says "subwoofer out", would this work. Right now I have to keep unpluging and replugging back in the sound cable depending if my wife is asleep or not. Any help would be great.


----------



## jaxon123

tjmontano,

I don't think you can directly b.c there are no audio outs. You'll prolly have to use a receiver if you want to use the headphones. I've heard great things about this system. How does it sound to you specifically?


There are 3 on eBay currently for sale so wondering how much you like the sound.


Thx.


----------



## tjmontano

I like the sound. I think it is great for sound. i can hear footsteps and soft sounds in movies. I like that. The surround effect is minimal for me. I don't really notice things coming from behind me, but it more like it sounds like it comes at you from the sides. Which is pretty good considering the price of these things. I would buy it again with no regrets.


----------



## kabirh

I'd like to pick up the Yamaha YAS-70, but it's only got two digital inputs: one coax, one optical. Does anyone know if I can pickup a receiver with lots of inputs, run my htpc, xbox 360, wii and ps3 into that, and have it output to the soundbar? Does this work? Is there quality loss?


----------



## videonut

I've had the Niro 1000 in my home for a week now and I've decided to share my thoughts:


I 'd purchased the Niro system to compliment a 60" Sony KDS-602000 that is situated in the living room. The Sony's internal sound system is seriously lacking, but I didn't want to start adding speakers all over this particular room, as I already have a dedicated theater room downstairs (1080p Front Projector, 120" Stewart Firehawk Screen, McIntosh Components with an array of Magnepan speakers).


I'd first tried some of the usual suspects in the canned surround sound arena, but they all fell short of their claims. I will admit that I'm somewhat spoiled by the natural-sounding base inherent to ribbon speakers, and most of the boxed surround units I'd tried really fell short in this area. I was ready to give up on the one-box solution until a friend (an audio engineer) suggested I give the Niro 1000 an audition. He went on to say that Niro offered a 30 day trial period, so it seemed to be a no brainer.


After hooking the system up (one compact 5-channel amp, a compact sub and one main speaker housing that contains five speakers), I tried the HD-DVD edition of Firefly. Not knowing what to expect, I was somewhat shocked when the Universal Logo flew towards me, as I could feel it's rumble steadily growing in my chest. My wife and I exchanged a smile and then carefully watched the opening scene. The sound effects seemed right on the money, but the biggest surprise was the clarity of dialogue. The young female star, who has a tendency to speak quite softly, came across very clearly. Every word was apparent, even during background music and effects. And the bass is very smooth; you won't find yourself reaching for the remote during a sudden outbreak of explosions or crashing metal.



The Amp has three optical, one coaxial and two analog inputs. Digital 5.1 sounds extremely spacious and pleasantly fills the room. This system does not rely on bouncing sound off the walls, such as the Yamaha, which IMO makes the Niro much more versatile.


Another nice feature is that the Dolby Digital Pro Logic II option, which has numerous settings, can really help to bring a dull cable broadcast back to life.


The Niro does a very nice job with music when watching movies or playing background music, but of course an audiophile will still want his/her dedicated system for serious listening.


My conclusion: anyone looking for a great improvement in sound quality while watching a 40 thru 60 inch display in an average size room will greatly appreciate the Niro 1000. IMO, it's really worth the price for what it does.


----------



## plughplover

Received PM from someone else about to try replacing bad caps in their Binaura. Aroused my curiosity, so I did some googles and came across

http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index.p...&overclockid=0 


Apparently there is still stock being sold, and they are still dying


----------



## JAgustin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *videonut* /forum/post/12269398
> 
> 
> I've had the Niro 1000 in my home for a week now and I've decided to share my thoughts:
> 
> 
> I 'd purchased the Niro system to compliment a 60" Sony KDS-602000 that is situated in the living room. The Sony's internal sound system is seriously lacking, but I didn't want to start adding speakers all over this particular room, as I already have a dedicated theater room downstairs (1080p Front Projector, 120" Stewart Firehawk Screen, McIntosh Components with an array of Magnepan speakers).
> 
> 
> I'd first tried some of the usual suspects in the canned surround sound arena, but they all fell short of their claims. I will admit that I'm somewhat spoiled by the natural-sounding base inherent to ribbon speakers, and most of the boxed surround units I'd tried really fell short in this area. I was ready to give up on the one-box solution until a friend (an audio engineer) suggested I give the Niro 1000 an audition. He went on to say that Niro offered a 30 day trial period, so it seemed to be a no brainer.
> 
> 
> After hooking the system up (one compact 5-channel amp, a compact sub and one main speaker housing that contains five speakers), I tried the HD-DVD edition of Firefly. Not knowing what to expect, I was somewhat shocked when the Universal Logo flew towards me, as I could feel it's rumble steadily growing in my chest. My wife and I exchanged a smile and then carefully watched the opening scene. The sound effects seemed right on the money, but the biggest surprise was the clarity of dialogue. The young female star, who has a tendency to speak quite softly, came across very clearly. Every word was apparent, even during background music and effects. And the bass is very smooth; you won't find yourself reaching for the remote during a sudden outbreak of explosions or crashing metal.
> 
> 
> 
> The Amp has three optical, one coaxial and two analog inputs. Digital 5.1 sounds extremely spacious and pleasantly fills the room. This system does not rely on bouncing sound off the walls, such as the Yamaha, which IMO makes the Niro much more versatile.
> 
> 
> Another nice feature is that the Dolby Digital Pro Logic II option, which has numerous settings, can really help to bring a dull cable broadcast back to life.
> 
> 
> The Niro does a very nice job with music when watching movies or playing background music, but of course an audiophile will still want his/her dedicated system for serious listening.
> 
> 
> My conclusion: anyone looking for a great improvement in sound quality while watching a 40 thru 60 inch display in an average size room will greatly appreciate the Niro 1000. IMO, it's really worth the price for what it does.



Thank you Videonut! Finally a review of the new Niro systems. On that note, now I have some questions for you







I have a small place (bachelor suite) and am looking for a theater system (htib or otherwise) without a DVD player and stumbled across the Niros.


My viewing space is quite small, with the viewing distance of about 7 - 8 feet, originally I was looking at Yamaha's YSPs but the lack of walls in my room wouldn't allow for great sound reflection. Since my room is quite smaller than an "average" side room do you think the 1000 would be a little too "big" for my space? I haven't found any reviews for the 800, 6 or 420's.


That 30day trial certainly makes decision making easier!


Joel


----------



## gansan

I haven't been following this thread closely since buying my Niro 1000 almost a year ago, but I thought I would offer my opinions.


For a short time, I had both a Niro 1.1Pro II and a Niro 1000 side by side to compare. I ordered the Pro and then a week later, the 1000 was announced. They were nice enough to let me order the new one and return the old one when the 1000 arrived. I did back to back comparisons, concentrating on the quality of the surround effects between the two.


First, I would say the two sounded similar at their core. Good sound across the range, but the 1000 had a more defined mid-bass and with the extra subwoofer amp, the bass was significantly more powerful. However, my living room is not that large, and the seating distance is about 9-10 feet. This slightly closer than the ideal range of 10-13 feet for the 1000, and I noticed this as less distinct rear channels as compared to the 1.1Pro. I also noticed (with both units) that the nearby wall about 4-5 feet to the left of the TV affects the surround channel on the left. The right channel surround sounds better because my living room is connected to the kitchen on that side, which provides a very large space and avoids the reflections from that direction. I plan on adding one of the sound diffuser panels to the left wall and seeing if that helps.


For those with shortened viewing distances, I would get the "correct" Niro model, as opposed to getting the "best" one like I did. Your results will probably be best if you choose the model that matches your room size and viewing distance. I am hanging onto my 1000 since I know I will move into a bigger place...eventually.










Overall, I've been very happy with the 1000. It certainly provides convincing and tactically useful surround effects when playing games on my ps3. The effect with movies is less pronounced, but for those of us who don't have the room for a full complement of speakers, it's an excellent package that gets the job done with minimum fuss.


----------



## JAgustin

Thanks for the advice gansan!


Now that you've had the 1000 in place for quite some time, do you think you'd be able to use the speaker(s) in conjunction with a surround sound system?


For example, right now I have a Yamaha 2.1 system and the speakers are fantastic hooked up to a cheap 10" Sony sub (which I'm going to replace eventually). For my room size it sounds great, albeit not surround but crystal clear. Now, in the coming months I plan on getting a full 5.1/7.1 surround receiver with potentially some floor standing KEF speakers.


My thoughts would be that the Niro audio processor would no longer be useful given the receiver, however, do you think I'd be able to continue to use the Niro Speakers with the new speakers I plan on buying? IE: using the Niro speakers as a center channel.


At this point I haven't researched timbre matching thoroughly yet, and it's more of a pipe dream right now, but technologically speaking, think it could work?


Joel


----------



## gansan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JAgustin* /forum/post/12488654
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice gansan!
> 
> 
> Now that you've had the 1000 in place for quite some time, do you think you'd be able to use the speaker(s) in conjunction with a surround sound system?
> 
> 
> For example, right now I have a Yamaha 2.1 system and the speakers are fantastic hooked up to a cheap 10" Sony sub (which I'm going to replace eventually). For my room size it sounds great, albeit not surround but crystal clear. Now, in the coming months I plan on getting a full 5.1/7.1 surround receiver with potentially some floor standing KEF speakers.
> 
> 
> My thoughts would be that the Niro audio processor would no longer be useful given the receiver, however, do you think I'd be able to continue to use the Niro Speakers with the new speakers I plan on buying? IE: using the Niro speakers as a center channel.
> 
> 
> At this point I haven't researched timbre matching thoroughly yet, and it's more of a pipe dream right now, but technologically speaking, think it could work?
> 
> 
> Joel



I would say no. The Niro speaker is specifically designed to work with the processing in the matching amplifier. For example, if you play a test tone out of the right channel, you can put your ear next to the speaker enclosure and notice that multiple speakers are playing sound--but some of them sound like they are out of phase or otherwise processed. From your seat, the sound appears to come from a few feet to the right of the speaker. This makes it fairly incompatible with a standard receiver. Even if you figured out the wiring to just the use the center speaker, you are not going to be putting the other four drivers to good use.


So the Niro is right for you only if you plan on sticking with it as a complete system. There is some hope for future upgrades, however, because the Niro company provides hardware and firmware upgrades over time. So my hope is they will someday support HDMI and the newer HD sound formats as an upgrade.


----------



## gdseeker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/5340289
> 
> *Altec Lansing PT7031* MSRP $600-ish - sorry no link



FYI, I picked up the PT8051 (same as the 7031, but with a wireless rear speaker bar for surround) this week, and so far, I'm liking it. I replied in more detail on this thread .


Here are the product pages:

PT7031 

PT8051 


Short version...really easy to set up, great for eliminating wires. So far, the sound's pretty good to these non-audiophile ears, although it depends on the source. So far, the best has been the HD DVD version of Serenity, played through my XBOX 360 HD DVD Drive, using optical digital output. FiOS TV varies from channel to channel, and standard DVD is reasonably good.


----------



## dragalexis

I bought the Binaura B102 with an amazing price of 150$ (new). It looks like the Canadian distributor is trying to clear the inventory (hope it will not die in the next 6-12 months).

The sound is very good for music and movies. I tried to use it for TV but I have to increase the sound to 50 to hear something. Nevertheless, when I listen to music channels on my digital box I have excellent quality. Is there anyone on this forum that had the Binaura for more than 2 years? Does it still work?


Future Shop has Sony DAVX1 on sale for 300$. Anyone tried both?


----------



## blazingazn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dragalexis* /forum/post/12655048
> 
> 
> I bought the Binaura B102 with an amazing price of 150$ (new). It looks like the Canadian distributor is trying to clear the inventory (hope it will not die in the next 6-12 months).
> 
> The sound is very good for music and movies. I tried to use it for TV but I have to increase the sound to 50 to hear something. Nevertheless, when I listen to music channels on my digital box I have excellent quality. Is there anyone on this forum that had the Binaura for more than 2 years? Does it still work?
> 
> 
> Future Shop has Sony DAVX1 on sale for 300$. Anyone tried both?



I would return those speakers immediately if I was you.


I purchased from NCIX. They broke in 40 days.

NCIX will not take it back.


They only have a 90 day return policy. To ship to them would cost too much.

A load of BS if you ask me.


----------



## BuffaloJim




> Quote:
> Is there anyone on this forum that had the Binaura for more than 2 years? Does it still work?



I have had the B102s for at least two years, and I have just begun to hear some buzzing that's obviously not supposed to be there. I have heard that these Binauras have capicitor problems after awhile. But like I said, they have lasted over two years.


Jim


----------



## dragalexis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blazingazn* /forum/post/12779572
> 
> 
> I would return those speakers immediately if I was you.
> 
> 
> I purchased from NCIX. They broke in 40 days.
> 
> NCIX will not take it back.
> 
> 
> They only have a 90 day return policy. To ship to them would cost too much.
> 
> A load of BS if you ask me.



What happened to it? Is it the same problem everyone mentioned (capacitors)? I really like the sound quality and I am using it just for watching DVDs, with the sound level never exceeding 40. How often and how loud have you used it?

Was it brand new or refurbished. I am thinking refurbished are better since they only need new capacitors.


----------



## dragalexis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BuffaloJim* /forum/post/12801824
> 
> 
> I have had the B102s for at least two years, and I have just begun to hear some buzzing that's obviously not supposed to be there. I have heard that these Binauras have capicitor problems after awhile. But like I said, they have lasted over two years.
> 
> 
> Jim



How often and how loud have you used it? Was it for daily TV or for DVDs?


----------



## BuffaloJim




> Quote:
> How often and how loud have you used it? Was it for daily TV or for DVDs?



It was not used daily. Generally just for DVDs. When we did use it it was loud enough for a fairly good sized family room. I have used it cranked all the way up on occasion as well. The non-daily use probably had something to do with it lasting for over two years.


Jim


----------



## jonathan777

Does anyone own the Mainstagehd? If so do they own an LG BH200 as well???


----------



## mtnrick

I bought the Binaura 102ac and experienced the same problem reported by other AVSers -- blown capacitors after less than a year's very light use. Binaura basically told me to buzz off when I contacted them. This problem is so consistent over so many users, I'd stay away from their products no matter how attractive the price seems.


----------



## mtnrick

I see that the YSP-800 inventory at Amazon (and elsewhere) is being dumped to make room for the -900. Prices are now well below $500; seems like a good deal?


----------



## davemcs

I pieced together a YSP-800 and a YST-FSW100 for 520.00 shipped to my door. $400.00 shipped for the YSP and $120.00 ish for the sub..both via ebay sellers.


----------



## roguedog

Has anyone tried the Niro 800/1000, the Yamaha YSP 4000 and the Binaura 202?


Just wondering how different they all are.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Most folks only try a couple of these. You can read through the thread for reviews of older models. I would avoid the Binaura, it has a history of failures.


----------



## Greenandpurple

I will be setting up an LCD over a fireplace (heat checked - it's fine) and all the cables will be running there via some conduit in the walls. Connections to cable box/DVR, ReplayTV, DVD player, and Xbox. My problem - my family doesn't want a HT speaker set up, and even a center channel & two side mounted speakers have been rejected. A single speaker like the YSP-4000 w/amp seems like a great solution - I would use the TV as the switch and just send an audio signal to the speaker/amp.


But that means I don't need any fancy processing or throughput capability - just good sound (given the limitation) from the speaker/amp combo. Does anyone have a recommendation for this setup? Price is an issue, but given what I might expect to pay for a 52" Sony (W3000 or one of the new models), I'd rather install once and have something I can live with for years.


Thank you.


----------



## benseattle

Due to space and budget concerns, I'm not in the market for a five-speaker system, so seeing the NIRO at Magnolia in Bellevue, WA today was a real "ear-opener."


One speaker on top of the TV and a subwoofer created OUTSTANDING sound and with "phasing" plus other techno-nuclear advancements, this one box (with five internal speakers) produced a wonderful stereo-plus effect that had planes from "Pearl Harbor" flying OVER MY HEAD. Solid bass from the woofer too. Very clear and crisp speech from whispered voices during "Jurrasic Park."


What's more, the small 800 system was nearly as good, just slightly less bass from what my ears could tell, but still plenty for a smaller listening/viewing area.


If it was up to me right now, I'd buy the 1000 model for the living room and the 800 for the bedroom. $1,600 and $1,200 respectively.


True: I haven't heard everything, but the Niro systems will more than work.


----------



## DeaneG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benseattle* /forum/post/15201251
> 
> 
> Due to space and budget concerns, I'm not in the market for a five-speaker system, so seeing the NIRO at Magnolia in Bellevue, WA today was a real "ear-opener."



I've had a Niro 800 in the media room for a few years now. It's very clear and detailed (even great for music). The subwoofer can really pound out the LF without drawing attention to itself. Watching "Polar Express", my wife and I both felt like the train was right in the room, incredible.


I wonder if they'll put out a version with HDMI input someday? For now, SPDIF works great.


----------



## DCSholtis

Lots of great info here, I think I've decided to wait awhile for a sale (or hopefully a unit on eBay) and get a Zvox Z-Base 550. Looks like its a newer unit and according to their website it's perfect for flat panel TVs such as mine. Here is the link:

http://www.zvoxaudio.com/cgi-bin/item/4005501


----------



## yubjun

zvox 550 is also in my interest list. But don't hold your breath waiting for the price to go lower anytime soon or ever. If you notice their older models, their price have been the same since they came out for years..



Niro 800/1000 seems like droolingly good, but they are so much more expensive..wish i had the cash..


----------



## awellusedwallet

...just not on the 550. On their web page, most (if not all) of their other units are on sale - I believe through the end of this month (January 2009). I am also interested in the 550, but I think because it was recently introduced it is not included in this sale. And they have free shipping as well. Now, if I can just convince my DW we need one







.


----------



## weirdg

I just purchased the Niro 800 system the other day. What's a good price for that system? I paid $1399CDN plus tax shipped. I was able to talk the sales rep down $50, and get free shipping. I'm just wondering if I was fleeced, since it seems like Niro is discontinuing that system.


WG


----------



## BuffaloJim




> Quote:
> I just purchased the Niro 800 system the other day. What's a good price for that system? I paid $1399CDN plus tax shipped. I was able to talk the sales rep down $50, and get free shipping. I'm just wondering if I was fleeced, since it seems like Niro is discontinuing that system.
> 
> 
> WG



It's tough to say what's a fair price today - I haven't seen one offered in a long time. But I would sat that $1400 CDN is at the upper end of the spectrum. On the other hand, the Niro is a good system and you do get what you pay for.


Jim


----------



## weirdg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BuffaloJim* /forum/post/15765495
> 
> 
> It's tough to say what's a fair price today - I haven't seen one offered in a long time. But I would sat that $1400 CDN is at the upper end of the spectrum. On the other hand, the Niro is a good system and you do get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> Jim



I'm thinkin I got a decent deal since the price on the US site for the Niro 800 is $1399USD, and the price of the Niro 620 on the Canadian site is $1399CDN. I guess you're also right in saying that you do get what you pay for, considering Niro has a reputation for making a great sound bar.


WG


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## Splashman24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/15251896
> 
> 
> Lots of great info here, I think I've decided to wait awhile for a sale (or hopefully a unit on eBay) and get a Zvox Z-Base 550. Looks like its a newer unit and according to their website it's perfect for flat panel TVs such as mine. Here is the link:
> 
> http://www.zvoxaudio.com/cgi-bin/item/4005501




I purchased a Zvox Z-base 550 on ebay. I have it paired with a 40" Toshiba lcd in the bedroom. I have to say I'm impressed. It sounds far superior to the tv speakers. While it would never replace a proper surround system, I have already recommended it to friends that are using tv speakers and are content because they either don't know any better or don't want to tackle a true surround sound system with multiple speakers.


Where this unit excells is with music. It sounds lively and natural. If you were going to make this the focal point in your living room, you would probably want to add a sub. It cannot produce the wide dynamics of an action movie, but it will flesh out the sound of most scenes and add a sense of presence.


I did not have the opportunity to audition before purchasing, I only found info through this forum and online reviews. I can say I will not be returning the unit during the 30 day trial period.


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## weirdg

Hi,


I had some questions for those of you that own a Niro system. I have the Niro 800 System.


1) Do you have the LOUD setting turned on? (Mine is set to enabled)

2) What do you have the Surround Mode set on? Do you change it based on what you're watching? (I set mine to PLII Auto for everything)

3) What is the preferred setting for Surround Channel Listening Mode? (I set mine to enhanced instead of natural)

4) How is your speaker setup? Does it sit on top of your TV, below your TV, etc... What is the preferred way to set it up? (Mine is currently resting below the TV on the stand facing straight out)


Please advise. BTW, the system sounds great, I just don't want to limit the it because I set something up incorrectly.


TIA,

WG


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## weirdg

For those of you using Niro systems with a PS3, make sure you set your optical audio output setting to Bitstream instead of LPCM. Initially, when I purchased my Niro 800, the guy told me to set my PS3 to LPCM and let the Niro do the rest.... wrong!


I finally did some digging around recently, and learned the following.


Optical audio

- Can't output lossless audio tracks(i.e. TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc.).

- When a lossless track is selected, the receiver will cut the extra parts and drop the audio back down to non-lossless audio(i.e. DD, DTS, etc.).

- Bitstream is the better choice for audio output.


HDMI audio

- Can output all types of audio tracks, including lossless.

- LPCM is the preferred audio output choice.

- For PS3 slims, LPCM and Bitstream will work for lossless audio tracks.

- Older PS3s will properly output lossless audio tracks ONLY if LPCM is selected.


Unless Niro has changed the connectors on their newer amps to allow HDMI audio input(doubtful), bitstream should be selected as the audio output on your PS3 or blu-ray player whenever possible. This is because the Niro systems only accept optical input.


Hope this helps.


WG


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## kbuzz

I am experimenting with a Zvox 550. Has anyone been able to program their UR5U-8400 universal remote (time warner scientific american 8300 DVR) to control the zvox volume. My Panny TCP46G10 does not have adjustable external volume outputs-that i can tell


Zevox offers 4 digit remote codes in their manual but this remote, to my knowledge only offers three digit codes.


Thanks all for the help from a newbie.


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## ZVOX

Full disclosure - this is Tom from ZVOXAudio.com. I've used a Mini with an iPod for years. Sounds great. Dan Frakes at MacWorld liked it too -- http://www.macworld.com/article/5172.../zvoxmini.html 

Check Ebay -- we often have refurb Minis at good prices.


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## ChevChelios

Tom, what subwoofer would you recommend for the zvox 325? Any of the wireless subs (polk) compatible?


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## benjammin

I think the whole HDMI/lossless codec goal for soundbars may well be overblown. It is unclear whether most folks under double-blind conditions with much higher quality equipment can consistently identify lossless compared to lossy. Now everyone's ears and perception are different, so perhaps if you have golden ears, you truly can. However, a soundbar likely doesn't have the quality and sensitivity to truly tell from an abx/double blind study of lossless vs. lossy.

Now it's always nice to know you have the lossless, but if you have a soundbar or a much higher level system, you're likely doing just fine if you don't have hdmi and use lossless codecs.


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## pinkerton

Hi,


I was stumbling past the Niro website and I happened to notice that there is a closeout sale happening.


I'm a big fan of Mr. Nakamichi and his line of products are simple and effective.


They are expensive, but you get what you pay for.


I have two of his systems and find them extremely satisfying. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

http://us.niro1.com/ 


Thanks


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