# Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)



## thrang

*4/29/17 Revision Photos*


3 - JBL Synthesis M2 speakers (LCR)
4 - JBL Sythesis SCL-4 in wall speakers (side and rear)
2 - JBL S2X passive subwoofers
4 - JBL SCS12 ceiling speakers
2 - JBL SCS8 ceiling speakers
Crown DCI Network Amplifiers


_3 - 600 bi-amped
8 - 300 watt
1 - two channel 2450 watt for subs_​
Seymour AV 4k UF material
Trinnov Altitude 32-16
Sony VPL-VW5000es projector
Lumagen Pro 4k processor
Kaleidescape Strato/Terra
PS4
Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Player
Zidoo UHD2000 4k Media Player
Synology 20 TB NAS
ATS Acoustic Art Fabric Panels
Allen Products MM-018 Multimounts for 708 ceiling installation (http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdf/mm-018.pdf)


Room has about 5% left to clean up/patch/paint, but though I would update this thread since it's been a while...

Major change was switching the axis of the room to the long axis from the short, and using and adjacent room for the projector. Also moved to a comfortable sectional sofa with two chaises rather than dedicated theater seats - family likes this better, as do I.

The porthole is not complete on the projector side, which is why the interior black out both is just taped down. Wiring cleanup never seems to happen, but that's still required.


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## KahunaCanuck

Wow, gorgeous setup, nice job and nice pix thrang!


Are the diamonds broken in now do you think?


Welcome to the B&W club!


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KahunaCanuck* /forum/post/19117043
> 
> 
> Wow, gorgeous setup, nice job and nice pix thrang!
> 
> 
> Are the diamonds broken in now do you think?
> 
> 
> Welcome to the B&W club!



B&W recommends only about 15 hours, and I'm well beyond that, so yes.


Superb clarity and attack, with no strain and no sibilance.


And thanks for your comment...


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## d_m1010

Are you running a sub in your setup? Also, what brand of 3 channel amp is next to the center? Looks very nice btw.


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## thrang

Quote:Originally Posted by *d_m1010* 

Are you running a sub in your setup? Also, what brand of 3 chanel amp is next to the center? Looks very nice btw.


Thanks - those are two JL Audio 113 Fathoms next to the 800 Diamonds.

The amp is actually a fully-balanced 150 wpc/10-channel Denon POA - two channels each are driving the 803's, and single channels are driving the center and four surrounds


Update: per equipment list, all amplification is Parasound Halo


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## d_m1010

Very nice. I like the JLs very much. They have a fantastic fit & finish. It was tight race but I ended up with quad SVS Ultras.


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## Bunga99

Incredible setup!!!


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bunga99* /forum/post/19118012
> 
> 
> Incredible setup!!!



Thanks - testing my direct rears as sides in place of the dipoles as a "test" before committing to the 805's...


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## btf1980

Lovely. The new diamonds are serious business. You must be wiping down that black gloss frequently. It's a finger print & dust magnet.


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## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19116729
> 
> 
> With the recent changes to the new B&W 803 Diamonds up front, I thought Id update the images...
> 
> Look but don't touch...who said diamonds are indestructible?
> 
> Love the dialog from the HTM2 Diamond...The fit and finish on the new 803's are tremendous...



killer set-up man, wish I had a room like that. Thanks for posting


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *btf1980* /forum/post/19119221
> 
> 
> Lovely. The new diamonds are serious business. You must be wiping down that black gloss frequently. It's a finger print & dust magnet.



Room is fairly dust free, but I'm too busy listening anyway!


Thanks for your comments....


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD* /forum/post/19119438
> 
> 
> killer set-up man, wish I had a room like that. Thanks for posting



Thanks for the feedback - it takes time, and lots of misguided money, is all I can say...


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## Djoel

Very nice! Love the finish for sure..


Djoel


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## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19119782
> 
> 
> and lots of misguided money, is all I can say...



the "stimulus" bill (to bail-out the banks) was mis-guided money, our audio/home theater projects are "well-guided" money


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD* /forum/post/19121836
> 
> 
> the "stumulus" bill (to bail-out the banks) was mis-guided money, our audio/home theater projects are "well-guided" money



You're like a dealer talking crackheads here....no arguments!


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## SeattleHTGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19121978
> 
> 
> You're like a dealer talking crackheads here....no arguments!



Very, very nice. I have the older VPL 100 and love it. It's on the ceiling though. I also have dipoles in the rear of my 11.2 system and they sucketh. I am going to go to simple B&W in walls for rears soon. Please let us know if you switch out the rears and what you think. I am very disillusioned with dipoles these days and regret getting them.


Otherwise, great room and love the big 803di's.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/19122815
> 
> 
> Very, very nice. I have the older VPL 100 and love it. It's on the ceiling though. I also have dipoles in the rear of my 11.2 system and they sucketh. I am going to go to simple B&W in walls for rears soon. Please let us know if you switch out the rears and what you think. I am very disillusioned with dipoles these days and regret getting them.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, great room and love the big 803di's.



Thanks -


I actually switched out the dipole sides today for the new 805 Diamonds. I still will use the RBH's for the rear channels, and will experiment with directs or the dipoles.


I tested with the direct RBH's before making the decision, having lived with dipoles so long - for me, the difference was matrixed vs. discrete mixes. Matrixed stereo signals sent to the side channels sounds a bit better with the diffuse nature of dipoles to my ears. But discrete mixes sound better (more integrated) with the direct radiating speakers.


As more and more mixes have been and continue to be discrete mixes, with more active vs. ambience sound design, I think the time was more than ripe to switch.


I will let them break in for a while, do yet another mind numbing Audyssey Pro calibration, and post feedback and images later this week...


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## thrang

I also want to give props to my dealer, Talk of the Town in Allendale NJ - tremendous service, an unbelievable showroom with several high end rooms, carry most of the best lines - they have several of the new Diamonds on display including the 800's....


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## Franin

Very nice Thrang great room. Btw I love your Denon AVP/POA


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## Waboman

Your room looks great, Thrang. The new B&W's look fantastic. I bet they rock too. Great job on putting it all together.


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## AvGeek07

Very nice speakers,i bet your proud of the sound quality.










happy listening.


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## adidino

Looks great! What happened to the RBH?


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Waboman* /forum/post/19127434
> 
> 
> Your room looks great, Thrang. The new B&W's look fantastic. I bet they rock too. Great job on putting it all together.




Thanks - I'm appreciating them more and more - just a fantastic sound from top to bottom...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvGeek07* /forum/post/19140564
> 
> 
> Very nice speakers,i bet your proud of the sound quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> happy listening.



Very much so - I've since purchased the 805DI's as side surrounds, and and running a new Audyssey Pro calibration now - also got the spikes on the towers, which I hadn't had a chance to do..


I'l try and get the 805 images uploaded sometime today...


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino* /forum/post/19140573
> 
> 
> Looks great! What happened to the RBH?



Hi Tony - while excellent, I needed more space than I had to gain the full benefit of the tweeter array. They are up on Audiogon now...


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *btf1980* /forum/post/19119221
> 
> 
> Lovely. The new diamonds are serious business. You must be wiping down that black gloss frequently. It's a finger print & dust magnet.



I've since found that the iKlear spray and the included fine microfiber wipe (recommended by Apple to clean their LCD's), works extremely well - not that smudges are a problem once placed and left alone...


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## btf1980




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19140605
> 
> 
> I've since found that the iKlear spray and the included fine microfiber wipe (recommended by Apple to clean their LCD's), works extremely well - not that smudges are a problem once placed and left alone...



Cool. I do like the piano gloss finish as well.


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## thrang

...updated with images of the new 805DI side surrounds....


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## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19148879
> 
> 
> ...updated with images of the new 805DI side surrounds....



wow, very nice!


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## JSchulte

Beautiful set up. What are those JL Audio subs sitting on?


Did you once have L and R fronts in wall?


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSchulte* /forum/post/19151230
> 
> 
> Beautiful set up. What are those JL Audio subs sitting on?
> 
> 
> Did you once have L and R fronts in wall?



Enormously dense butcher blocks purchased from Amazon, spray painted, and on heavy duty spikes


EDIT - Platforms since removed...


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSchulte* /forum/post/19151230
> 
> 
> Did you once have L and R fronts in wall?



Yes, but but not for the home theater - they are still there, originally connected to an Elan whole house audio system, and now connected to a Sonos Zone Player, though I rarely use it in that room anymore.


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## Symplystyc

Very nice setup.


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## daisyshuttle

So Modern design, It is valuable for me to apply to decorate my room.


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## Fanaticalism

Thrang,


How about some pics of the updated configuration?


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## pcweber111

So uh, ever have neighborhood movie nights?










Seriously though, amazing stuff. You gonna keep the RBH's for the surround backs or do you want to upgrade them to match the main surrounds? Sorry if you've already answered it, I didn't see.


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## pcweber111

I wanna hump those speakers. So sexy...


*cough* Sorry.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcweber111* /forum/post/19427612
> 
> 
> I wanna hump those speakers. So sexy...
> 
> 
> *cough* Sorry.



Let me enjoy them before you take the shine off them....


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## pcweber111

So how's the break-in period going so far?


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## DDigitalGuy05

Uh huh,these are very nice speakers indeed only if had the money.

I wonder if his neighbors love him when the jl audo subs kick in.









great setup 5/5


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcweber111* /forum/post/19438389
> 
> 
> So how's the break-in period going so far?



Haven't had too much time since installing except to watch a few hockey games at low volume - hoping to get them cranking today and tomorrow with a variety of music..


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DDigitalGuy05* /forum/post/19440201
> 
> 
> Uh huh,these are very nice speakers indeed only if had the money.
> 
> I wonder if his neighbors love him when the jl audo subs kick in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great setup 5/5



Thanks - nearest neighbor is 150 feet away - its my wife in the next room that's the challenge...


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## Djoel









EFFFING COOL Thrang, Too sweet. I just finished reading the TAS 802Di review, and I just want to start saving and saving and saving for a pair of those bad boys










Big congrats


Djoel


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Djoel* /forum/post/19451273
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EFFFING COOL Thrang, Too sweet. I just finished reading the TAS 802Di review, and I just want to start saving and saving and saving for a pair of those bad boys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big congrats
> 
> 
> Djoel



Thanks - I was listening to The World Drummers Ensemble: A Coat of Many Colors, which is all percussion with tons of nuance, attack, & complex interplay, and it was just stunning on those 802s...


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## Djoel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19452154
> 
> 
> Thanks - I was listening to The World Drummers Ensemble: A Coat of Many Colors, which is all percussion with tons of nuance, attack, & complex interplay, and it was just stunning on those 802s...



Hm, gotta go and check that one out, Check out Pancho Sanchez Conga Blue http://www.amazon.com/Conga-Blue-Pon...pell..It's some Latin jazz that's really cool as well, with plenty of percussion on it too.



DJoel


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## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Djoel* /forum/post/19452811
> 
> 
> Pancho Sanchez Conga Blue http://www.amazon.com/Conga-Blue-Poncho-Sanchez/dp/B00009WVRQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1289223504&sr=1-2-spell..It's some Latin jazz that's really cool as well, with plenty of percussion on it too.
> 
> 
> 
> DJoel



That's a good one...


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## Djoel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino* /forum/post/19452821
> 
> 
> That's a good one...





Yes it is, as it was recommend by you T.







...I first purchased redbook version of it, found another of Poncho's albums in SACD ("Out of Sight" I think?), and then discovered that they had the Conga Blue in SACD, and bought that one as well. All great music, if you're into that sound







The 802N's are simply brutal with some of those notes.It sounds like there are real Bongos with each slap of the skin in my apt










DJoel


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Djoel* /forum/post/19452811
> 
> 
> Hm, gotta go and check that one out, Check out Pancho Sanchez Conga Blue http://www.amazon.com/Conga-Blue-Pon...pell..It's some Latin jazz that's really cool as well, with plenty of percussion on it too.
> 
> 
> 
> DJoel



I'll have to get it and give it a spin...


This is one of these upgrades that rekindles the desire to listen to music again in a much more engaging way...


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## Emig5m

Wow. I love the all black front-end. I don't understand why a lot of the hardcore B&W fans don't like the new piano black, it's easily my favorite B&W finish and it's extremely sharp, even on the CM series. I like my Rosenut, but if I where to buy brand new current models right now, it would definitely be piano black.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Emig5m* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. I love the all black front-end. I don't understand why a lot of the hardcore B&W fans don't like the new piano black, it's easily my favorite B&W finish and it's extremely sharp, even on the CM series. I like my Rosenut, but if I where to buy brand new current models right now, it would definitely be piano black.



I do appreciate the wood finishes, but with the JL Audio 113s and the black marlan heads, I wanted a more consistent front especially with the black wall (which will be widened soon to cover behind both 802s), Some complain about the glare from the gloss black, but 90% of any reflection, which is not very distracting, is from the spherical enclosures, which all 802s posses. The rest of the speakers disappear, while the wood would have a dull, but more widespread feedback of light from the screen


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## adidino

Looks fantastic!


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## SeattleHTGuy

yes, Thrang, I am convinced the ccm816s or ccm817' 818 would be your ticket. The room is awesome and I can't imagine using those big honking speakers just for surrounds but, you win on the budget department and also have great style. I await your thoughts on the A100.


Really the Heights do not need to be anything close to full spectrum and wow, did I mention wow!!


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## SeattleHTGuy

Well, I perved a bit deeper. We have a lot in common, other than you having the Dis at way more than double the cost. Sonos, Sony Projector ( granted I have the VPL VW 100 ), tendency to favor Denon, and the love of da TB's. I got ya with something north of 42 TBs and counting. Ditto the My Movies. BTW, going to try the MyMovies I-Pad app tomorrow. You gotta do the Sonos I-Pad App. It rocks!!


I can tell you now, you'll go nuts with the wides in your room. The problem is your surrounds are even more than I'd recommended for wides; and I dig wides. The DSX will most likely end up with you buying 2 more 805Di's for either Wide or Surround duty. I still think in ceilings are the answer for your heights.


My system has changed fairly dramatically since I last posted. I can't compete with your mega-bling but am curious how you progress. I mean 2.35, 3D, speakers... We have similar systems.... Even the same Harmony is a match. I use lighting control as well and gotta believe you've cycled that in as well.


I seriously am showing the misses your room with dollars associated. You are giving me great coverage on the expense column. Keep it up...


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I perved a bit deeper. We have a lot in common, other than you having the Dis at way more than double the cost. Sonos, Sony Projector ( granted I have the VPL VW 100 ), tendency to favor Denon, and the love of da TB's. I got ya with something north of 42 TBs and counting. Ditto the My Movies. BTW, going to try the MyMovies I-Pad app tomorrow. You gotta do the Sonos I-Pad App. It rocks!!
> 
> 
> I can tell you now, you'll go nuts with the wides in your room. The problem is your surrounds are even more than I'd recommended for wides; and I dig wides. The DSX will most likely end up with you buying 2 more 805Di's for either Wide or Surround duty. I still think in ceilings are the answer for your heights.
> 
> 
> My system has changed fairly dramatically since I last posted. I can't compete with your mega-bling but am curious how you progress. I mean 2.35, 3D, speakers... We have similar systems.... Even the same Harmony is a match. I use lighting control as well and gotta believe you've cycled that in as well.
> 
> 
> I seriously am showing the misses your room with dollars associated. You are giving me great coverage on the expense column. Keep it up...



Yes, lots similar actually - I do use the sonos iPad app a lot, though haven't looked at the my movies iPad app - if that is for control, I am interested. The first time they released their iPhone app, it seemed just for database entries and upkeep, which was boring to me.


When I go dsx, those 803s will move to wide, the 805s to side, and either the RBH satellites or a pair of Mirage om-9s I have laying around as rears. If I don't like that, I guess another paid of 805s for the rear.


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## SeattleHTGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, lots similar actually - I do use the sonos iPad app a lot, though haven't looked at the my movies iPad app - if that is for control, I am interested. The first time they released their iPhone app, it seemed just for database entries and upkeep, which was boring to me.
> 
> 
> When I go dsx, those 803s will move to wide, the 805s to side, and either the RBH satellites or a pair of Mirage om-9s I have laying around as rears. If I don't like that, I guess another paid of 805s for the rear.



It appears the My Movies App for I-Pad is pretty much database only but still looks nice. It's about $7 so I may try it.


I noticed the Harmony 1100 as well. What I'd love to own is some sort of a Harmony 1100 with a built in DinoVo Mini for say $500. Something that could control all the IR and RF stuff and when I hit a button like "Watch Movie Fr PC", it would switch all the components, then confirm MCE goes direct to the MyMovies database. alas, no such consumer programmable device exists with full Keyboard/Mouse functionality. I am not a fan of Windows MCE remotes. I want full PC control. What is sad is I mentioned this to a friend and Senior MAnagement guy at Microsofts Peripheral Division ; the exact place that would promote and design such a thing and no one has really ever brought up the idea.


Oh well, I *****. Great room.


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## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19117222
> 
> 
> those are two JL Audio 113 Fathoms next to the 803 Diamonds



wow, must be quite a "slamming" room with the right movie? I use one F110 in my smallish apartment living room and it rocks the whole building, seriously.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19117222
> 
> 
> The amp is actually a fully-balanced 150 wpc/10-channel Denon POA- two channels each are driving the 802's, and single channels are driving the center and four surrounds



cool. So you're running two channels each (in parallel) into each 802Di?


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## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19453123
> 
> 
> I'll have to get it and give it a spin...



also check out-

"Return To Forever, Live" (BluRay)

"Jeff Beck, Live At Ronnie Scott's" (BluRay)


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/19485948
> 
> 
> It appears the My Movies App for I-Pad is pretty much database only but still looks nice. It's about $7 so I may try it.
> 
> 
> I noticed the Harmony 1100 as well. What I'd love to own is some sort of a Harmony 1100 with a built in DinoVo Mini for say $500. Something that could control all the IR and RF stuff and when I hit a button like "Watch Movie Fr PC", it would switch all the components, then confirm MCE goes direct to the MyMovies database. alas, no such consumer programmable device exists with full Keyboard/Mouse functionality. I am not a fan of Windows MCE remotes. I want full PC control. What is sad is I mentioned this to a friend and Senior MAnagement guy at Microsofts Peripheral Division ; the exact place that would promote and design such a thing and no one has really ever brought up the idea.
> 
> 
> Oh well, I *****. Great room.



I purchased the app, and you can do simple play and stop from the app - if they could add some basic transport controls, maybe with a computer-side listening application, it would be incredibly nice.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD* /forum/post/19489071
> 
> 
> wow, must be quite a "slamming" room with the right movie? I use one F110 in my smallish apartment living room and it rocks the whole building, seriously.
> 
> 
> cool. So you're running two channels each (in parallel) into each 802Di?



The current setup is running the LCR in bridged mode - the 803 and 805 surrounds are single channel amplification


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD* /forum/post/19489085
> 
> 
> also check out-
> 
> "Return To Forever, Live" (BluRay)
> 
> "Jeff Beck, Live At Ronnie Scott's" (BluRay)



Just ordered them, should have them Wednesday - thanks


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## SeattleHTGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased the app, and you can do simple play and stop from the app - if they could add some basic transport controls, maybe with a computer-side listening application, it would be incredibly nice.



I bought it as well. It looks great really, I have yet to set it up to start a movie. I will do so tonight. If the limited play, start, pause functionality works, I could see using the I-Pad along with the Harmony 1100. My wife hates multiple remotes but if I just give her the I-Pad and tell her to pick a flick and punch it, I can get her to make volume and other tweaks with the 1100. This may work great for me and at 7 bucks; worth the try. As you give it a go, let me know what you think.


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## SeattleHTGuy

Well, I tried the "Launch from I-Pad" feature via the My Movies app. It is really cool. I do have a few problems and will actually comment to Binnerup. The program launched too fast and Arcsoft TMT 3.0 fired up before virtual clone drive could mount the iso. I have a SSD drive so this may be an issue.... Too damn fast.


I see family movie night starting with me handing the I-Pad to the misses. she and my daughter scroll the flicks, push play and I handle the Harmony and if necessary the DiNovo Mini. As you said, if they add full transport and some kind of PC remote function, it's a win. The shelf system is damn good looking.


Best of luck to you with the A100.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I tried the "Launch from I-Pad" feature via the My Movies app. It is really cool. I do have a few problems and will actually comment to Binnerup. The program launched too fast and Arcsoft TMT 3.0 fired up before virtual clone drive could mount the iso. I have a SSD drive so this may be an issue.... Too damn fast.
> 
> 
> I see family movie night starting with me handing the I-Pad to the misses. she and my daughter scroll the flicks, push play and I handle the Harmony and if necessary the DiNovo Mini. As you said, if they add full transport and some kind of PC remote function, it's a win. The shelf system is damn good looking.
> 
> 
> Best of luck to you with the A100.



My problem which I've posted on their forums but haven't gotten an answer, is that box sets/collections aren't mimicked correctly on the iPad app - I'm almost every case, box sets appear as individual titles on the shelf along with the collection title itself. In one case, a different issue - for Alien Anthology, I only see the collection title on the shelf (good), but clicking on play does not reveal the associated titles to the collection.


In wmc, all box sets and collections appear and operate normally. Otherwise, it is a very cool app that would cost a ton of money, if at all possible, to have a creston-style solution built...


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## Daman S

Fantastic setup!! Gotta love those B&W diamonds, very impressive. Gotta ask since ur pj seems to be mounted in the middle of the screen, is that a High power screen?

Beautiful setup!


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daman S* /forum/post/19502013
> 
> 
> Fantastic setup!! Gotta love those B&W diamonds, very impressive. Gotta ask since ur pj seems to be mounted in the middle of the screen, is that a High power screen?
> 
> Beautiful setup!



Yes, HP 2.8 Cinema Contour 133"


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## Daman S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19502129
> 
> 
> Yes, HP 2.8 Cinema Contour 133"



Sweet that room must be large.I have a 125" myself and love it!


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## ahard

Thrang, your setup is wonderful. I really love the inviting feel of your room.


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## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahard* /forum/post/19524341
> 
> 
> Thrang, your setup is wonderful. I really love the inviting feel of your room.



Thanks - my next change is seating


----------



## SeattleHTGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - my next upgrade is better seating - those Berklines have horrible lumbar support....



I wanna know about the A 100 switch out and of course, those bad boy 803Di's going to wide duty. I now live vicariously through you and my life ain't bad.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/19525638
> 
> 
> I wanna know about the A 100 switch out and of course, those bad boy 803Di's going to wide duty. I now live vicariously through you and my life ain't bad.



You can choose better to live vicariously though!


The A100 is still back ordered, I guess due to the hardware changes...so I have nothing further..I'm half thinking of just waiting to CES to see what Denon announces as upgrades for my A1...


----------



## ahard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19525555
> 
> 
> Thanks - my next upgrade is better seating - those Berklines have horrible lumbar support....



Maybe a sectional instead of the individual chairs.


----------



## adidino

Get the Mac or Classe... either will match wonderfully with those 800's


----------



## Fanaticalism




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino* /forum/post/19550200
> 
> 
> Get the Mac or Classe... either will match wonderfully with those 800's



My vote goes to the MX150. Subjectiveness aside, room correction gives it the edge.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a sectional instead of the individual chairs.



I though about this but then came across some seats from jaymar, a Canadian company, at a local furniture store - another league than the berklines, deep but firm cushioning, great lumbar support, all hardwood construction - I ordered a straight four configuration, which should be in early January...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Get the Mac or Classe... either will match wonderfully with those 800's



Hi Tony - might get a three channel Mac for the fronts, but not till next year - but the poa is no slouch I must say, so it's not as high on my list...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fanaticalism* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> My vote goes to the MX150. Subjectiveness aside, room correction gives it the edge.



At this point, I'm sticking with the a1, especially since they are supposed to announce some nice hardware and software upgrades in January...


----------



## Fanaticalism




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19550464
> 
> 
> I though about this but then came across some seats from jaymar, a Canadian company, at a local furniture store - another league than the berklines, deep but firm cushioning, great lumbar support, all hardwood construction - I ordered a straight four configuration, which should be in early January...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Tony - might get a three channel Mac for the fronts, but not till next year - but the poa is no slouch I must say, so it's not as high on my list...
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I'm sticking with the a1, especially *since they are supposed to announce some nice hardware and software upgrades in January*...



Ah, that's actually good to hear.


----------



## SeattleHTGuy

All right you crazy over the top B&W big bucks guy. I know you've got the hum issue with the 4311. It must be annoying and yet, I still want to know how 803 Dis in wide mode sound in your really fantastic big budget room. Let's hear a review now. enquiring minds want-a know.


Cheers and it's all good!


----------



## Rod#S

Wow, an absolutely amazing setup. You guys with dedicated rooms in homes are so lucky you have no idea, or maybe you do










So why the decision to put the 803's on the sides and not rears with the 805s on the sides? Just curious. I currently run a 7 speaker setup with towers in the front and back and never actually tried having the surrounds on the sides. Technically with my currernt speakers I couldn't have my sides in the rear because they are dipoles but it's something I would consider in the future as I move to a 7 speaker B&W setup. I'm starting next month by getting 802Di's and the HTM2Di. After those are paid off the decision will be whether I get say a pair of 804s or 803s and a pair of 805s or 2 pairs of 805s. If money was no object and I had house as opposed to an apartment 7 802Dis would be super sweet but that ain't gonna happen







. I was going for 3 803Dis for the front but my dealer talked me out of it and the B&W rep apparantely agreed because the center 802 would not be in the center as I have a tv on a stand.


Are you running custom crossovers for the speaker groups (i.e separate fronts, center, sides and rears) or is everything set high to one frequency, say 80Hz? It would be a shame if you couldn't control the groups separatley to get the most out of each speaker group.


----------



## SeattleHTGuy

Thrang, I am kind of bummed you had no review on the new AVR, other than a bad unit and some kind of hum/noise. Are you going to try again?


----------



## efmrrt

Friggin awesome setup. As far as B & W speakers go would you buy another set? Why I ask, is I'm looking at upgrading and doing it right this time.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeattleHTGuy* /forum/post/19773811
> 
> 
> Thrang, I am kind of bummed you had no review on the new AVR, other than a bad unit and some kind of hum/noise. Are you going to try again?



Hi - few things - holidays, new projector issues/returns, 4311 blue rain (haven't dropped it off for fixing yet) kept me busier/disinterested in a more detailed review.


Also, I am spoiled being an A1 owner...and do miss some the qualities of the AVP..but I will set aside some time for more critical listening soon and try to post more thoughtful feedback


DSX is more hit or miss the longer I use it. Often I find hollow vocalization which requires me to disable it.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *efmrrt* /forum/post/19773822
> 
> 
> Friggin awesome setup. As far as B & W speakers go would you buy another set? Why I ask, is I'm looking at upgrading and doing it right this time.



Absolutely. They are incredible, and likely my last speaker purchases.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S* /forum/post/19614495
> 
> 
> Wow, an absolutely amazing setup. You guys with dedicated rooms in homes are so lucky you have no idea, or maybe you do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the decision to put the 803's on the sides and not rears with the 805s on the sides? Just curious. I currently run a 7 speaker setup with towers in the front and back and never actually tried having the surrounds on the sides. Technically with my currernt speakers I couldn't have my sides in the rear because they are dipoles but it's something I would consider in the future as I move to a 7 speaker B&W setup. I'm starting next month by getting 802Di's and the HTM2Di. After those are paid off the decision will be whether I get say a pair of 804s or 803s and a pair of 805s or 2 pairs of 805s. If money was no object and I had house as opposed to an apartment 7 802Dis would be super sweet but that ain't gonna happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was going for 3 803Dis for the front but my dealer talked me out of it and the B&W rep apparantely agreed because the center 802 would not be in the center as I have a tv on a stand.
> 
> 
> Are you running custom crossovers for the speaker groups (i.e separate fronts, center, sides and rears) or is everything set high to one frequency, say 80Hz? It would be a shame if you couldn't control the groups separatley to get the most out of each speaker group.



In DSX, wides have more likelihood of receiving full range signal than the side surrounds, so the 803's went there...


Audyssey Pro does set different crossovers for each speaker, so the front wides and center were set to full range - I think I've backed them off to 40 hz for soundtracks, and play the 802's full for stereo music


----------



## SeattleHTGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> In DSX, wides have more likelihood of receiving full range signal than the side surrounds, so the 803's went there...
> 
> 
> Audyssey Pro does set different crossovers for each speaker, so the front wides and center were set to full range - I think I've backed them off to 40 hz for soundtracks, and play the 802's full for stereo music



Mine also showed full range. You should set them to small in the AVR and I know with the behemoths you have, you may consider this sacrilege but I'd even play with 60Hz as a manual over ride on crossover. I know my fronts are lowly 803Ss, but I get a bit more very low bass via crossing over to my little ASW 2500s.


----------



## drewTT

That really looks spectacular. Love the equipment especially the B&W speakers. They just look incredible.


----------



## scanido

Thrang,


First off got to say your setup is amazing. Love the spaciousness of your room and especially your new B&W's!


I've decided to get the 802Di's myself but not sure yet on finish. Since you have first hand experience owning the new Piano Black finish how is it in terms of durability and reflectiveness?


Do you find the finish easy to swirl when dusting? Do they reflect a lot of the light from your projector?


Thanks for your help.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido* /forum/post/19832239
> 
> 
> Thrang,
> 
> 
> First off got to say your setup is amazing. Love the spaciousness of your room and especially your new B&W's!
> 
> 
> I've decided to get the 802Di's myself but not sure yet on finish. Since you have first hand experience owning the new Piano Black finish how is it in terms of durability and reflectiveness?
> 
> 
> Do you find the finish easy to swirl when dusting? Do they reflect a lot of the light from your projector?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.



Thanks for your comments...


In terms of reflections, they are there if you look for them - but during the course of watching films or TVs I never see them or are distracted in anyway, nor is anyone who's ever watched anything in the toom - the speakers disappear for me.


Now I am normally someone who, once they see a problem, can't help but stare at it - but even knowing there are small reflections on certain speakers does't invoke that personality disorder...they vanish that well...


The reflections are on the left and right sides, and the top of the center - nothing ever from the front bezel (I run with grills off)


Prior to these speakers, I had tall black ash matte finish towers. While they didn't have sharp reflections, their entire sides "glowed" with a diffuse reflection of the screen and I noticed those more for some odd reason, even during viewing. That was one of the reasons I did not do the wood finish on the B&W - I was concerned the relatively lighter, matte finishes of the other finish choices would create a similar effect.


Of course, the 802's have rounded cabinets, while the previous towers were flat sided, and taller, so there is probably a factor there as well.


In terms of keeping them clean, I use a swiffer to pull dust off easily - no swirls at all. If you get fingerprint smudges, I use a microfiber cloth and the iKlear screen cleaning solution (recommended by Apple for their LCD's)

http://www.klearscreen.com/ 


It removes the oils, does not scratch, and leaves no residue


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/19832733
> 
> 
> Thanks for your comments...
> 
> 
> In terms of reflections, they are there if you look for them - but during the course of watching films or TVs I never see them or are distracted in anyway, nor is anyone who's ever watched anything in the toom - the speakers disappear for me.
> 
> 
> Now I am normally someone who, once they see a problem, can't help but stare at it - but even knowing there are small reflections on certain speakers doesn't invoke that personality disorder...they vanish that well...
> 
> 
> The reflections are on the left and right sides, and the top of the center - nothing ever from the front bezel (I run with grills off)
> 
> 
> Prior to these speakers, I had tall black ash matte finish towers. While they didn't have sharp reflections, their entire sides "glowed" with a diffuse reflection of the screen and I noticed those more for some odd reason, even during viewing. That was one of the reasons I did not do the wood finish on the B&W - I was concerned the relatively lighter, matte finishes of the other finish choices would create a similar effect.
> 
> 
> Of course, the 802's have rounded cabinets, while the previous towers were flat sided, and taller, so there is probably a factor there as well.
> 
> 
> In terms of keeping them clean, I use a swiffer to pull dust off easily - no swirls at all. If you get fingerprint smudges, I use a microfiber cloth and the iKlear screen cleaning solution (recommended by Apple for their LCD's)
> 
> http://www.klearscreen.com/
> 
> 
> It removes the oils, does not scratch, and leaves no residue



Appreciate your feedback!


Currently I have a 803S in black ash and it is two feet off the sides of the screen and they do have that slight reflective glow you mentioned. Nothing distracting, but it is there as well. The curved shape of the cabinet and speaker positioning ie (more toe in less reflection) does minimize the glow so I'll work with the new speakers.


Great to hear the gloss does not swirl easily which would indicate the top coat of the finish is hard. If it is anything like the Marlan head's gloss finish then the cabinets should be equally as durable! This would be more of my main concern as I hate seeing swirl marks!


Thanks, you've reassured my decision on the Piano Black!


----------



## erwinfrombelgium

thrang,


I read your thread and since I like the B&W sound, I love your room. I heard the older 800D a year ago in a hotel conference room in Brussels and they are awesome! I am sure the new 802D you have in your more normal sized room sound fab!


Now, SeattleHTGuy pointed me in your direction for my request I asked on the 4311 thread today. Allow me to copy+paste my post. I think I know your answer on the Wides.


"_Hello all,


This seems to be the forum where many of the DSX addicts are hanging out, so please advise me on this. I am planning a 11.2 Surround system in the "amusement" space of our new house. I am now building 2 LLT (Large & Low Tuned) subwoofers to do the .2 stuff.


I decided to DIY build the other speakers also. In our current living room, we have the B&W CM7, CMC and CM1 as speakers in a 5.1 (REL SW). I am unhappy with the CMC, it is outperformed by the CM7. I don't want to make that mistake again (the CMC2 did not yet exist). If I had 200K lying around, I'd get the B&W Custom Theatre 800... Instead, I chose the DTQWT-12 DIY kit from Troels Gravesen for L&R. Awesome very (very!) large 3-way speakers, but very affordable and the same drivers will be used in a custom center speaker. So far so good.


Now the Wides: I want use the DTQWT variation for this. This is a large (not very large) 3-way speaker, only the 2 woofers are 10" rather than 12". This will produce an outstanding soundstage because the 80-200 Hz (80 Hz or whatever MultEQ32 sets) will always be superior over a standmount (using only the tweeter and midwoofer). Am I seeing this wrong? Is the 80-200Hz content sent to DSX Width channel worth these towers?

DTQWT:

troelsgravesen.dk (could not yet insert URL)


The Heights: these would have to be bookshelves, with the same tweeter and midwoofer, using an angled shape, to face down to the listener.

Horizontal angle is 35° (45° recommended)

Vertical angle is 22° (45° recommended)

Ceiling Height is only 2m40 (8')

Should I bother? Other option is commercial in-ceiling, but with other drivers, timbre-matching is at risk. Angles would be better (45° Horizontal and 28° Vert)


Thanks


Erwin"_


Any input would be very appreciated.

Here's my floor plan:
Attachment 198167 

 

Ronse2010B_HTplan4.pdf 466.0478515625k . file


----------



## thrang

First post lists the latest config and contains several new photos of my current set-up...why I'm doing this before the dust settles at CEDIA and not knowing what inevitable changes that will bring, I don't know...


----------



## Rod#S

Looking beautiful as always










How are you liking the new SSP and amps compared to the Denon gear you had?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S* /forum/post/20931308
> 
> 
> Looking beautiful as always
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are you liking the new SSP and amps compared to the Denon gear you had?



I am thrilled with the SSP. The A1 is a great unit, but I find the SSP distinctly more refined - more natural, effortless and detailed. Soundstage is improved as well.


I had both in hand, and tried both the new W4S amp in use, with the same speakers in the same room, so I can't get much more equal in terms of comparative conditions.


----------



## markiedee

An incredible setup is what you have, it must be one hell of an experience listening to either movies or music.


----------



## Mig 29

impressive


----------



## Miketr75

Great set up with all B&W Diamonds all around.


----------



## thrang

Just recently calibrated everything so it is sounding incredible now, with the Classe....


----------



## Emig5m

Wow loving the newest pics. One of my favorite systems on here.


----------



## scanido

Looking awesome!


Those Bowers&Wilkin's are timeless designs!!!


----------



## thrang

Thanks - cleaned up the equipment and wiring at the front of the room so need to post an updated picture soon


----------



## VTGOLFER

I just finished reading your thread. Very impressive. One quick question...what type of audio stand do you have? I have been looking for the exact same look.


Thanks, Ted


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VTGOLFER* /forum/post/21300660
> 
> 
> I just finished reading your thread. Very impressive. One quick question...what type of audio stand do you have? I have been looking for the exact same look.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ted



Thanks - its from Ikea but modified - sent you a pm...


----------



## Gertjan

Stumbled across this thread and just wanted to drop a note to compliment you on your setup







I love the whole look of it, and i like how it's so inviting. Your setup puts the HOME in Home Theater (har har







) Great setup, gives me some ideas for mine.


----------



## tmaschm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - its from Ikea but modified - sent you a pm...



I'd like information about that stand too. Thanks!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tmaschm* /forum/post/21324359
> 
> 
> I'd like information about that stand too. Thanks!



It was a modified ikea LACK cabinet - bought two so I could cut up the long top and bottom pieces from the second one into taller vertical sides and inside dividers as the stock clearance was not high enough. I also modified and used one less vertical divider so I had three wider spaces instead of four narrower spaces as it is orginally designed.


I've since removed it and have the equipment hidden at the rear of the room


----------



## trek737

Yes a very nice set up indeed. Those B&W 802 Diamonds are beautiful!







I am just curious, is there a reason why you have the projector on a stand behind the seats instead of say mounted to the ceiling? Wiring maybe? And do those plants left and right of the front cabinet hide wires or are they just decorative?


You have a fantastic HT and I am sure that you are very proud of. Congrats on knocking it out of the park!










Jim


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trek737* /forum/post/21373406
> 
> 
> Yes a very nice set up indeed. Those B&W 802 Diamonds are beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am just curious, is there a reason why you have the projector on a stand behind the seats instead of say mounted to the ceiling? Wiring maybe? And do those plants left and right of the front cabinet hide wires or are they just decorative?
> 
> 
> You have a fantastic HT and I am sure that you are very proud of. Congrats on knocking it out of the park!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim



I used a retro-reflective screen (The DaLite High Power), so the projector need to be as close to your eyeliner as possible to achieve the maximum gain.


Even if I didn't, I would prefer this setup to a ceiling mount


I really need to update the pictures, as the front soundstage has been cleaned up quite a bit - the plants were more for wire hiding originally, but now purely decorative.


----------



## trek737

Thanks... Again Congrats!


----------



## Miketr75

Wow can't stop coming back looking at those new Di speakers in gloss back finish. Any changes, update lately ? Thanks


----------



## charlievoviii

amazing setup you go there even though it's a little clusters.


----------



## MIkeDuke

That is one sweet setup you have there. I have heard some of the gear you have, Your B&W speakers and I have a Classe SSP-600. I am sure your system sounds out of this world. Just two quick questions. Is your room treated? If I missed it I apologize. Second, what do you think about Wyred4Sound amps. I haven't really seen them used as main amps before. That is what you are doing right? Do you listen to music with your system(2ch). How would you say the amps do in that regard. Are they really cool running? I know I would probably have a hard time leaving that room







.


----------



## pokekevin

Are those 803s for side surrounds?? You mad man hahah. Great system! Even with the light on the screen looks awesome!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *charlievoviii* /forum/post/21720207
> 
> 
> amazing setup you go there even though it's a little clusters.



Thanks, I think...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MIkeDuke* /forum/post/21720336
> 
> 
> That is one sweet setup you have there. I have heard some of the gear you have, Your B&W speakers and I have a Classe SSP-600. I am sure your system sounds out of this world. Just two quick questions. Is your room treated? If I missed it I apologize. Second, what do you think about Wyred4Sound amps. I haven't really seen them used as main amps before. That is what you are doing right? Do you listen to music with your system(2ch). How would you say the amps do in that regard. Are they really cool running? I know I would probably have a hard time leaving that room
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Room is not treated, except for some inadequate corner traps I built.


The W4S amps (most recent generation) are excellent, have plenty of power and quickness, and work very well for soundtracks and music. Run very cool.


For music listening, I use an M2Tech Young DAC with Apple Lossless encoded music fed from a Mac Mini running Pure Music software.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin* /forum/post/21730543
> 
> 
> Are those 803s for side surrounds?? You mad man hahah. Great system! Even with the light on the screen looks awesome!



Yes, overkill - I had the 803's as fronts, and decided I wanted more mid bass so got the 802's. I'm set for a while, I think.


Got get some new pictures up, as the room has changed a bit and the new VPL-VW1000es is now in place...


----------



## thrang

Cleaned up the front soundstage (moved the equipment to the reared of the room, and routed all speaker cabling through the crawlspace up to the speakers)


Added the Sony VPL-VW-1000ES projector


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/21732284
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the front soundstage (moved the equipment to the reared of the room, and routed all speaker cabling through the crawlspace up to the speakers)
> 
> 
> Added the Sony VPL-VW-1000ES projector



YOU HAVE THE 1000ES!?!?!?!?!? *cleans drool off keyboard*


btw, the front stage looks much cleaner and allows more focus on those three stellar speakers that makeup the front soundstage.


----------



## pokekevin

With all the equipment moved to the back made your theater one of my favorite ones! Eye candy haha


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast* /forum/post/21744158
> 
> 
> YOU HAVE THE 1000ES!?!?!?!?!? *cleans drool off keyboard*
> 
> 
> btw, the front stage looks much cleaner and allows more focus on those three stellar speakers that makeup the front soundstage.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin* /forum/post/21744167
> 
> 
> With all the equipment moved to the back made your theater one of my favorite ones! Eye candy haha



Thanks - the combination of the cleaner look and pain in the ass access to wiring will help slow down my upgrade cycles!


I also added some of sound treatments back to the room (two seen behind the 802's, and two black panels relocated beneath the screen)


----------



## scanido

Hey Thrang,


Is that the new B&W stand for the HTM2 Diamond??


BTW - the setup definitely looks a lot cleaner and less distracting when looking up front.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido* /forum/post/21744404
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang,
> 
> 
> Is that the new B&W stand for the HTM2 Diamond??
> 
> 
> BTW - the setup definitely looks a lot cleaner and less distracting when looking up front.



Thanks


No, they are two VTI speaker stands

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/pub...NV5zJvvjwE6Twu


----------



## trek737




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido* /forum/post/21744404
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang,
> 
> 
> BTW - the setup definitely looks a lot cleaner and less distracting when looking up front.



+1... I like the new look, nice job!


----------



## tmaschm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> No, they are two VTI speaker stands
> 
> http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/pub...NV5zJvvjwE6Twu



Haha it looks like its ready to walk off!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tmaschm* /forum/post/21761123
> 
> 
> Haha it looks like its ready to walk off!



Little R2D2-ish I suppose....Perfect for a theater!


----------



## mookie b

Love the look with the equipment in the back...nice job


----------



## jackox

Great setting !


I am a big BW fan myself and I wondered how they would sound with Wyred4sound amps, which I think is a great company.


No powerfull room correction processor yet in there ?


----------



## pokekevin

I saw that you were selling the Wyred Amps. Whatca moving on to?


----------



## Nuz1

Did I see in another thread that you are switching to McIntosh amps? If so, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts about how it sounds compared to the others you've had in your system.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin* /forum/post/22026452
> 
> 
> I saw that you were selling the Wyred Amps. Whatca moving on to?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nuz1* /forum/post/22046348
> 
> 
> Did I see in another thread that you are switching to McIntosh amps? If so, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts about how it sounds compared to the others you've had in your system.



Yes, the Mcintosh MC8207 - I've been fiddling with testing out an Integra 80.3 at the same time, so haven't done thorough listening, but so far, I'm finding the Mac very black, articulate, and smooth. Midrange seems to have great presence


The W4S amps are no slouches, however, and I'm not claiming night and day differences...no way to do a/b comparisons as the mono blocks are sold, but I do feel the Mac is a better match to my B&W's.


----------



## Nuz1

Thanks for the reply. I'll be very interested in hearing your impressions as you get it all dialed in and get to enjoy the combo as I'm assembling gear for HT and considering the same pieces, Int 80.3 & MC8207 to go with my B&Ws.


----------



## Nuz1

Any updates about the McIntosh amp or Integra Pre?


----------



## Waboman

Hey Thrang, what sub risers are you using for your Fathoms?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nuz1*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22266684
> 
> 
> Any updates about the McIntosh amp or Integra Pre?



I did an audyssey pro calibration about two months back, and continue to be impressed both by the 80.3 and the 8207. While audyssey can be finicky to nail just right, when you do, it creates a very solid soundstage - broad, wide, and high, while remaining very articulate. I find the thx neo cinema and music modes to some of the best on a fairly consistent basis, and for most material, I tend to leave the audyssey eq on the music setting rather than movie, unless there is an usually bright soundtrack.


The 8207 is very clean and powerful, and is having no issues driving my diamonds. I had been toying with they idea of an mc303 for the fronts, but at my loudest listening, I'm not clipping the 8207, so no need for more than 200 watts per channel at this point.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Waboman*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22266998
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang, what sub risers are you using for your Fathoms?



I was using Auralex Gramma's, but need to update the photos of my front soundstage. I've since built two 2 foot high mdf cubes to raise the fathoms in the Y axis as some placement guides have suggested trying, and it's been a visceral improvement....


----------



## Waboman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22267530
> 
> 
> I was using Auralex Gramma's, but need to update the photos of my front soundstage. I've since built two 2 foot high mdf cubes to raise the fathoms in the Y axis as some placement guides have suggested trying, and it's been a visceral improvement....



Thanks. I will look into the Gramma's. Are they a nice fit for the Fathoms dimension wise? I'd like to see your DIY risers too. Maybe I'll get Thrang risers in my HT.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Waboman*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22267907
> 
> 
> Thanks. I will look into the Gramma's. Are they a nice fit for the Fathoms dimension wise? I'd like to see your DIY risers too. Maybe I'll get Thrang risers in my HT.



Well. if you like an "austere" look. they're perfect.


3/4 inch MDF, glued/brad-ed, sanded, and painted flat black for now.....back is open so I can stuff with some rigid insulation when I get around to it....


----------



## Nuz1

Thanks for the update! You've got such a great system! When you get a chance to update picutures, I'd be interested in the seeing the updates.


----------



## thrang

Updated the first post with the latest photos showing the new speaker configuration:


- JL Audio 113 on custom high risers

- Eliminated Rear 805DI's

- Added Wide 805DI's


----------



## audioguy

Room dimensions?


----------



## thrang

24 x 20 x 9


----------



## Franin

Hi Thrang Ive always admired your system such elegant equipment. Ive noticed you have raised the subs ( Sound doctor from JL Barry Ober ?) how do you find it? I


----------



## thrang

Hi Frank


While I have had conversations with Barry, I think I stumbled across that idea from some other white papers (maybe Toole's?, or some other) - Barry's a interesting guy, but also said some things I couldn't rationalize, like set all speaker distance controls at 7 feet regardless of their actual distance to the MLP, then start with your subs at 21 feet, playing with the distance until you get the highest SPL at the crossover...I mean, maybe there's gold there, but haven't tried it yet...


Nonetheless, raising the subs has made all the difference in the world - while I have a large room, there is complete freedom to put the subs wherever I want, so the vertical axis was unchartered territory.


After JL and Audyssey Pro cal, and a slight ELF trim, I noticed the benefit in several areas:
- low volume low end was natural, but more "apparent" than before

- high volume low end was super clean, well integrated, impactful visceral - you will feel yourself and the chair vibrate when appropriate.

- no rumbling


Essentially, before I was considering a third sub to improve the bottom end; now, I am not looking...


Your setup is looking great as always - I wish I had the ability to do more dedicated sound treatments, but the room style and physical configuration, prevent that from happening in any serious way.


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22445706
> 
> 
> Hi Frank
> 
> 
> After JL and Audyssey Pro cal, and a slight ELF trim, I noticed the benefit in several areas:
> - low volume low end was natural, but more "apparent" than before
> 
> - high volume low end was super clean, well integrated, impactful visceral - you will feel yourself and the chair vibrate when appropriate.
> 
> - no rumbling
> Essentially, before I was considering a third sub to improve the bottom end; now, I am not looking...
> 
> Your setup is looking great as always - I wish I had the ability to do more dedicated sound treatments, but the room style and physical configuration, prevent that from happening in any serious way.



That sounds quite interesting how high did you raise the subs? I might look into that I did raise the subs once but not that high off the ground.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22445773
> 
> 
> That sounds quite interesting how high did you raise the subs? I might look into that I did raise the subs once but not that high off the ground.



I think they are about 24" inches high....


This hobby has taught us it can't hurt to experiment (well, financially it can be painful, but what's a few tens of thousands of dollars in the pursuit of science?...)


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19116729
> 
> *09_2012 update: High Risers for JL Audio 113 Subs, Wide Speaker Congifuration*



Fabulous room, 9.2 cool the sound must be awesome, how big is your room?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22482673
> 
> 
> Fabulous room, 9.2 cool the sound must be awesome, how big is your room?



Noted a few posts above - 24x20x9


Thanks


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22482966
> 
> 
> Noted a few posts above - 24x20x9 Thanks



Thanks sorry, didn't see it great set up


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22425962
> 
> 
> Updated the first post with the latest photos showing the new speaker configuration:
> 
> - JL Audio 113 on custom high risers
> 
> - Eliminated Rear 805DI's
> 
> - Added Wide 805DI's



Looking good as always thrang. So now that you have been running your 7.2 setup configured for wides rather than rears do you prefer the wides? What differences are you noticing in the soundstage between the two? I know having the 805's on hand was convienent for the stictch to wides but have you thought about a more full range speaker in that position and if it would add anything? Widths and heights are still a mystery to me as so few people run one or the other or both and one thing that always peaks my curiosity is what Dolby, dts, etc. recommend for the wides i.e. are they full range channels or a frequency limited channels. If frequency limited then all you would need would be a stand mounted speaker making the 805 perfect but if they are full range then something like another pair of 803's might work out better but of course cost more money


----------



## thrang

At this point I much prefer the wide of the rears - in my set up, perhaps because I was only 5-7 feet away from them, the rears were too obvious at times. The wides are 12-14 feet away, and create a much more enveloping stage, with smoother transition from front to back. Remember, I relocated my "sides" to more of a 120 degree position slightly behind the listening area from their original straight on 90 degree orientation, and this works much better for me. I suppose the wides being where they allow me to push the sides back a bit further, and it really works quite well


I found that angle was more important than full range when it came to wides, though not to say that full range at the right position wouldn't be better. I had the 803's as wides some months ago, but because of the wall unit on the right, they were positioned too far forward to the front - I really didn't like it. Putting the 805's (one on a stand in the bookshelf and one on an existing table on the left side) at the proper angle made a large difference. Since I'm crossing at 80 for film listening, I'm not sure how much more benefit I would experience with full range (though I'd try if I had the room config)


----------



## Rod#S

Cool, thanks for describing what differences you heard between the backs and widths. Wow, you have your 802's and 803's crossed over at 80, is that just for film? Do you open it up for multi-channel music, down closer to their bass limits?


----------



## thrang

Music is full range


802's might be at 70, have to check again...


----------



## Franin

Hey Thrang how have you been? Any new upgrades/changes to your theatre?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22576728
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang how have you been? Any new upgrades/changes to your theatre?



Hi Frank


Doing well, hope you are too.


No major changes recently - first post has the updated equipment list; the custom risers for the subs, the McIntosh 7 channel amp, and rearranging my speaker configs were the most recent modifications.


How about you?


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/120#post_22576920
> 
> 
> Hi Frank
> 
> Doing well, hope you are too.
> 
> No major changes recently - first post has the updated equipment list; the custom risers for the subs, the McIntosh 7 channel amp, and rearranging my speaker configs were the most recent modifications.
> 
> How about you?



All good this side of the world. I've noticed your hard drive storage of your movies that looks fantastic I want to venture down that road but not yet decided which way to go. I've showed my friend your Home Theatre he loved it, he knows your speakers very well he told me too post A+++ all the way. He loved it. I agree with him.


----------



## thrang

Thanks, they are great speakers, though I've been toying with demoing Triad Platinums...


The Synology's are great NAS servers - trickier finding a playback device that is glitch free...I've jumped around between TMT5, PDVD, XBMC, and stand along media players (Micca EP950 the best of the bunch so far) but all have their strengths and weaknesses.


I'm looking forward to the new Dune 3D player coming how (hopefully) soon to see if that's the magic bullet.


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22576973
> 
> 
> Thanks, they are great speakers, though I've been toying with demoing Triad Platinums...
> 
> The Synology's are great NAS servers - trickier finding a playback device that is glitch free...I've jumped around between TMT5, PDVD, XBMC, and stand along media players (Micca EP950 the best of the bunch so far) but all have their strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the new Dune 3D player coming how (hopefully) soon to see if that's the magic bullet.



Triads are very nice but your B&W are beautiful speakers. I've demoed your speakers and they are top class.


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22576973
> 
> 
> The Synology's are great NAS servers - trickier finding a playback device that is glitch free...I've jumped around between TMT5, PDVD, XBMC, and stand along media players (Micca EP950 the best of the bunch so far) but all have their strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the new Dune 3D player coming how (hopefully) soon to see if that's the magic bullet.



Well I have lots to learn regarding NAS servers are you still alble to get hd audio?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22577002
> 
> 
> Well I have lots to learn regarding NAS servers are you still alble to get hd audio?



The NAS is in essence just a dumb storage device, so whatever you put on it will be played back. In my case, I use AnyDVD HD to rip Blu Ray titles, no compression, to either an ISO or Blu Ray folder structure (BDMV) format - so the video and audio is precisely as on the original disc. Typical space is about 40GB per title (my NAS currently has about a 20TB capacity)


Not all players _play_ every format, and certain BDA non-compliant players will not show the full menus - they generally just start playing the main movie title. Things like TMT5 and the Micca EP950 media player will play all 2D and 3D content, the Micca does not support full menus as it is not a licensee of the BDA (this however, ensures they will never support Cinavia copy protection)


TMT5 does not support Cinavia yet, but I would imagine their next major release will, else they would most certainly lose their licensing.


----------



## Franin

Thanks for that Thrang how many movies do you have stored at this present moment? I have 600+ blu rays in my collection but I would be very selective in what makes it in my storage.


----------



## thrang

About 420, plenty of room to go


----------



## Franin

That's very good. So you have a raid system so if one hard drive fails your able to back up?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22577143
> 
> 
> That's very good. So you have a raid system so if one hard drive fails your able to back up?



Yes, though nothing is foolproof. I can sustain failure of one drive out of ten in my current RAID 5 configuration, insert anew drive while it's running, and it will rebuild the missing data from the redundant data stored on the remaining nine - if I lose a second drive while its still rebuilding, you are toast and have the awesome fun of starting over. There's a RAID 6 option, chief among other differences lets you sustain to simultaneous drive losses at a time before you are kaput. I may migrate my RAID 5 to this, though it will take a few days of non stop chugging for all the data to be reallocated...


Knock on wood, I do keep my Synology off most of the time - even though its tucked away in a different closet, the new *Roomie Remote* iOS software I'm using (hey, there's something new you asked about that I forgot to mention earlier!) supports sending Wake on LAN packets to devices that support this. The Synology does, so when I hit an activity from any room that requires access to the library, it ticks on automatically, as does my Windows Media Center PC which is located in the main theater. There is also an auto-shutdown command in the Synology, so I have it set to turn off automatically at 2 pm each evening, as does the PC.


I do have a separate Synology RAID unit which is on 24/7, as it serves as a repository for our household documents, music, iTunes purchases, etc. That is a smaller RAID, and the core data I really care about is backed up to an external drive connected directly to the Synology (the Synology has many easy to use admin and feature apps, or packages, you can run, and backup is one of the them. If you are interested in video surveillance, you can control the recording of IP camera data to the Synology, and notification methods of movement is detected).


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22577333
> 
> 
> Yes, though nothing is foolproof. I can sustain failure of one drive out of ten in my current RAID 5 configuration, insert anew drive while it's running, and it will rebuild the missing data from the redundant data stored on the remaining nine - if I lose a second drive while its still rebuilding, you are toast and have the awesome fun of starting over. There's a RAID 6 option, chief among other differences lets you sustain to simultaneous drive losses at a time before you are kaput. I may migrate my RAID 5 to this, though it will take a few days of non stop chugging for all the data to be reallocated...
> 
> Knock on wood, I do keep my Synology off most of the time - even though its tucked away in a different closet, the new *Roomie Remote* iOS software I'm using (hey, there's something new you asked about that I forgot to mention earlier!) supports sending Wake on LAN packets to devices that support this. The Synology does, so when I hit an activity from any room that requires access to the library, it ticks on automatically, as does my Windows Media Center PC which is located in the main theater. There is also an auto-shutdown command in the Synology, so I have it set to turn off automatically at 2 pm each evening, as does the PC.
> 
> I do have a separate Synology RAID unit which is on 24/7, as it serves as a repository for our household documents, music, iTunes purchases, etc. That is a smaller RAID, and the core data I really care about is backed up to an external drive connected directly to the Synology (the Synology has many easy to use admin and feature apps, or packages, you can run, and backup is one of the them. If you are interested in video surveillance, you can control the recording of IP camera data to the Synology, and notification methods of movement is detected).



You certainly have worked it out well, I have to decide which will be the best method for me to go. The burning of the blu ray how long does that take? Also what about the quality? I've been told that once you burn blu ray the quality isn't as good? Is that true ?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22577401
> 
> 
> You certainly have worked it out well, I have to decide which will be the best method for me to go. The burning of the blu ray how long does that take? Also what about the quality? I've been told that once you burn blu ray the quality isn't as good? Is that true ?



Ripping takes about 45 minutes, depends upon your system/blu ray drive speed etc.


If you rip 1:1, there is no change in quality. Many people compress their rips to save room, but if you do a straight RIP (which is all AnyDVD HD CAN do - it cannot compress), it is identical to the original.


Where quality can come into play is in the playback device - the PC, video card, drivers, or external media player - just like different set-top Blu Ray players had subtle differences in video quality (audio not the issue if you bitstream). But a careful calibration from player to display should address issues if they do arise.


At times, I think I "see" more differences than is likely there, and in most cases, one would be hard pressed to DBT TMT5, a Micca EP950, and an Oppo 103 (which I had but returned) The Oppo may have been a touch "cleaner" video wise than TMT5, but getting really nit picky and would not bet more then 10 bucks if compelled to...


Other differences are in the meta scrapers the systems have or don't have. TMT5 and PDVD work with My Movies, a separate application that downloads cover art, descriptions, cast and crew, and creates a Kaleidescape interface in WindowsMedia Center for easy browsing, searching, and playing. The Micca really just supports jpegs you place in a folder to give you some simple cover art. But the Micca is cheap, fast, excellent quality, and plays most titles flawless (seamless branching titles like Aliens seems to momentarily pause at branch points, and you don't get full BD menus since they are not a licensee of the Blu Ray format - which is how they can avoid copy protection issues) TMT5 has no issues with branching titles, but I am constantly frustrated my an HTPC since there are many HW/SW players, and things like micro stutters or lip sync seem to come and go without any rhyme or reason week after week. It SEEMS fairly stable with the latest AMD drivers, but we'll see.


I'd start modestly with a player like the Micca, and if you have a blu ray drive on your main PC already, get AnyDVD HD (I think there's a trial version), rip some titles to an external drive, and connect it to the Micca to experiment (the Micca supports an internal and externally connected drives as well as SMB shares on NAS).


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22577463
> 
> 
> Ripping takes about 45 minutes, depends upon your system/blu ray drive speed etc.
> 
> If you rip 1:1, there is no change in quality. Many people compress their rips to save room, but if you do a straight RIP (which is all AnyDVD HD CAN do - it cannot compress), it is identical to the original.
> 
> Where quality can come into play is in the playback device - the PC, video card, drivers, or external media player - just like different set-top Blu Ray players had subtle differences in video quality (audio not the issue if you bitstream). But a careful calibration from player to display should address issues if they do arise.
> 
> At times, I think I "see" more differences than is likely there, and in most cases, one would be hard pressed to DBT TMT5, a Micca EP950, and an Oppo 103 (which I had but returned) The Oppo may have been a touch "cleaner" video wise than TMT5, but getting really nit picky and would not bet more then 10 bucks if compelled to...
> 
> Other differences are in the meta scrapers the systems have or don't have. TMT5 and PDVD work with My Movies, a separate application that downloads cover art, descriptions, cast and crew, and creates a Kaleidescape interface in WindowsMedia Center for easy browsing, searching, and playing. The Micca really just supports jpegs you place in a folder to give you some simple cover art. But the Micca is cheap, fast, excellent quality, and plays most titles flawless (seamless branching titles like Aliens seems to momentarily pause at branch points, and you don't get full BD menus since they are not a licensee of the Blu Ray format - which is how they can avoid copy protection issues) TMT5 has no issues with branching titles, but I am constantly frustrated my an HTPC since there are many HW/SW players, and things like micro stutters or lip sync seem to come and go without any rhyme or reason week after week. It SEEMS fairly stable with the latest AMD drivers, but we'll see.
> 
> I'd start modestly with a player like the Micca, and if you have a blu ray drive on your main PC already, get AnyDVD HD (I think there's a trial version), rip some titles to an external drive, and connect it to the Micca to experiment (the Micca supports an internal and externally connected drives as well as SMB shares on NAS).



So the playback devices is where the quality can come into play, good to know. Thanks Thrang you've been great explaining it all, I talked to my brother who is knowledgable like yourself in computers and he is going to show me some gear to give me an idea what it costs.


Btw why did you return the Oppo bdp 103?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22580155
> 
> 
> So the playback devices is where the quality can come into play, good to know. Thanks Thrang you've been great explaining it all, I talked to my brother who is knowledgable like yourself in computers and he is going to show me some gear to give me an idea what it costs.
> 
> Btw why did you return the Oppo bdp 103?



Yes playback device is important, but also ensuring you are ripping one to one, and not compressing. There are tools to only rip the main movie, strip out extras, other languages, etc., to get an overall smaller file size without affecting quality, but they generally aren't the most elegant tools to use.


I returned the Oppo because the firmware update of a few weeks removed a feature for network playback - accessing BDMV folder structures, which is how most of my library is ripped. There is a workaround (putting individual movie title contents into individual folders labeled AVCHD, for over 420 titles), but this would be a stupid and time consuming process, break other functinality with my PC, and have to be done this way manually each and every time I ripped a new movie - and there are no guarantees that even this feature wouldn't change/be removed in the future.


I doubt I ever would have put a physical disk into it - I wanted to see how well it performed as a streamer for my library, and if I was happy with the most basic of text listings as the interface (there are no scraping capabilities, nor even support for simple folder art) I was willing to sacrifice that if playback of all media was rock solid and I could see if there was a benefit to the renowned performance of the Oppo players - but once they removed the BDMV support, it made no sense to keep it despite it's excellent build and playback quality.


That, and it must support Cinavia.


Companies like Oppo have a big challenge as the days dwindle for physical media. They could extend their life by being the best streaming player int he market, but they are hamstrung by BDA licensing. They may have to move to Antigua and work under a different set of rules!


----------



## thrang

update -


- Eliminated CP-800 stereo pre-amp

- Added M2Tech Young DAC back into the setup

- Added two B&W M-1's for rears


upcoming, likely the Marantz 8801 to replace the 80.3 and adding two additional M1's for heights.


----------



## BrolicBeast

This is actually the first I'm hearing about the 8801......Is it expected to trounce the 80.3's features, or is it more of an expected sound quality upgrade?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22649484
> 
> 
> This is actually the first I'm hearing about the 8801......Is it expected to trounce the 80.3's features, or is it more of an expected sound quality upgrade?



Well the 80.3 is really quite good - I would expect similar or incremental improvement of sound quality - I think the heights, some additional audyssey features, AirPlay, and a few other things will define the differences...


----------



## pokekevin

What are the F113s sitting on? I would never dare put my Outlaws on top of something. They have a tendency to move around a little...can you imagine the possible damage to my wood floor


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22651435
> 
> 
> What are the F113s sitting on? I would never dare put my Outlaws on top of something. They have a tendency to move around a little...can you imagine the possible damage to my wood floor



As noted earlier, they are stands build from 3/4 in mdf, painted, and stuffed with rockwool insulation


The 113's are inert - very heavy with dense rubber feet for grip.


----------



## thrang

Spent the day wiring new height speakers, B&W M-1's, in anticipation of a Marantz 8801 and additional amplification around Christmas..


Also testing the Mede8er 1000 media player, as the Popcorn Hour A-400 is junk...


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22681100
> 
> 
> Spent the day wiring new height speakers, B&W M-1's, in anticipation of a Marantz 8801 and additional amplification around Christmas..
> 
> Also testing the Mede8er 1000 media player, as the Popcorn Hour A-400 is junk...



I think the height speakers make a great addition Thrang. Congrats!! Looking forward in hearing your thoughts on the Marantz.


----------



## Rod#S

Cool to see you are putting in some heights. I look forward to your comments how the integration is now that you have widths and heights. Did you give any consideration to B&W's new CI 800 series speakers for your heights? They seem like they would be the closest thing B&W make performance wise to the diamonds now thus giving a much better performance then the M-1's plus they would be in the ceiling.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22698050
> 
> 
> Cool to see you are putting in some heights. I look forward to your comments how the integration is now that you have widths and heights. Did you give any consideration to B&W's new CI 800 series speakers for your heights? They seem like they would be the closest thing B&W make performance wise to the diamonds now thus giving a much better performance then the M-1's plus they would be in the ceiling.



No, right now, running speaker wire to those points in the ceiling would be more work than I'm willing to invest right now


If the m1's show promise for heights with the 8801 and neo:x, maybe ill revisit that.


Thanks


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22698141
> 
> 
> No, right now, running speaker wire to those points in the ceiling would be more work than I'm willing to invest right now
> 
> If the m1's show promise for heights with the 8801 and neo:x, maybe ill revisit that.
> 
> Thanks



That makes sense, thanks


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22698734
> 
> 
> That makes sense, thanks



Then again, I just got some estimates for the CCM's and the back boxes.


Not sure I want to go THAT high for, well, heights!


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22705128
> 
> 
> Then again, I just got some estimates for the CCM's and the back boxes.
> 
> Not sure I want to go THAT high for, well, heights!



I agree, I didnt fork out that much for heights but I matched them the best I can. It does open up the soundstage and found llz heights work the best.


----------



## petetherock

Hey thrang

I am looking at the MC 303 or 207 or your 8207 for my 804D / HTM4 setup..

Currently I find my setup somewhat bright.. what do you think of the Mcintosh / B&W Diamond partnership?


BTW - took your lead and lifted up my F 113 as well. Cheers.


----------



## thrang

I find the setup very neutral and revealing, but not overly bright unless the recording is that way.


I have full carpeting and some drapery around the room - cannot tell precisely, but it looks like you may have wood or vinyl flooring? That, and a hard ceiling, maybe the bigger culprit ( I love the look of your room BTW)


If it works aesthetically, you might want to consider a large area rug for the space to help take some reflections


Does raising the 113 help in your setup?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22713277
> 
> 
> I agree, I didnt fork out that much for heights but I matched them the best I can. It does open up the soundstage and found llz heights work the best.



Well, knowing me, I'll ***** about the price and then do it anyway in six months..


----------



## petetherock

Thanks, Yep - the raised F 113 with a new ARO cal, helped - tighter too. But the MBM was also very welcome in helping with the mid bass - something I was missing.

I am looking for a warmer sound...


I have a marble floor - that old carpet will go after the wild doomsday / X Mas parties .... will be using a larger carpet and getting my acoustic chap to come in.


Thanks for the comments, I posted on my blog on the effort to make this room - did most of the design myself with acoustic feedback from a friend who runs a calibration shop. The wood panels are from Swiss Acoustic company and have rockwool behind them. It's not just regular cabinets or paneling...


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22724907
> 
> 
> Well, knowing me, I'll ***** about the price and then do it anyway in six months..



lol I know what you mean







One you have done it im curious to read how you go.


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petetherock*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/150#post_22724918
> 
> 
> Thanks, Yep - the raised F 113 with a new ARO cal, helped - tighter too. But the MBM was also very welcome in helping with the mid bass - something I was missing.
> 
> I am looking for a warmer sound...
> 
> I have a marble floor - that old carpet will go after the wild doomsday / X Mas parties .... will be using a larger carpet and getting my acoustic chap to come in.
> 
> Thanks for the comments, I posted on my blog on the effort to make this room - did most of the design myself with acoustic feedback from a friend who runs a calibration shop. The wood panels are from Swiss Acoustic company and have rockwool behind them. It's not just regular cabinets or paneling...



How high did you raise it Pete ?


I raised one of them (back right corner) when my friend came through I wanted to experiment with new ways. Didnt raise it too much but seemed to get a similar result.


----------



## petetherock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22725065
> 
> 
> How high did you raise it Pete ?
> 
> I raised one of them (back right corner) when my friend came through I wanted to experiment with new ways. Didnt raise it too much but seemed to get a similar result.


It's in the blog - picture there.

About 50 cm...


But it's not on a wooden platform alone, the base is solid concrete...


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petetherock*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/100_100#post_22725380
> 
> 
> It's in the blog - picture there.
> 
> About 50 cm...
> 
> But it's not on a wooden platform alone, the base is solid concrete...



Will have a look


----------



## pokekevin

I see that you were "considering" triad platinum's...I would definitely be interested in seeing ow 802Ds compare to them!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22736632
> 
> 
> I see that you were "considering" triad platinum's...I would definitely be interested in seeing ow 802Ds compare to them!



I've pulled back from that thought - did some repositioning of my speakers and a new calibration with positive effect, and awaiting an 8801 processor to experience its impact.


Plus I could not even "irrationalize" the cost of the switch out all the way around, and the b&w's let me stay with the same drivers all the way around except for the heights. Still need to swap the rear m1's to 805 diamonds however...


Or I might be removing the large wall unit, put a new pair of 803 Diamonds as Wides, and move the existing 805's to the rear


----------



## Rod#S

I would have to think the 803's would be better for wides than the 805's just due to the simple fact we hear more precisely from the front and even to the sides then we do from behind so the more capable 803's with the FST midrange and separate bass drivers would be the more logical choice providing no room limitations for their placement of course. Since you are also running heights it would be cool if you could get a wall mount apparatus to perfectly align to the holes in the bottom of the 805's because they would parbably make supurb height speakers even if inverted if you had to attach a mount to the ceiling rather than the wall.


Another way to add to the soundstage up front would be to add a center 802 but like myself your setup doesn't permit that unfortunatgely. Curse B&W for discontinuing the HTM1D. All us D2 owners need to get together and get a petition going


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22737306
> 
> 
> I would have to think the 803's would be better for wides than the 805's just due to the simple fact we hear more precisely from the front and even to the sides then we do from behind so the more capable 803's with the FST midrange and separate bass drivers would be the more logical choice providing no room limitations for their placement of course. Since you are also running heights it would be cool if you could get a wall mount apparatus to perfectly align to the holes in the bottom of the 805's because they would parbably make supurb height speakers even if inverted if you had to attach a mount to the ceiling rather than the wall.
> 
> Another way to add to the soundstage up front would be to add a center 802 but like myself your setup doesn't permit that unfortunatgely. Curse B&W for discontinuing the HTM1D. All us D2 owners need to get together and get a petition going



Yes, key though is if that large wall unt can fit in the spac I'm thinking - it will be tight, but without being able to move it, I can never get a 803 on the right side


Out for the day but will be checking in detail in the next day or two


And I'd love to get 805's high, but it may be awkward and I don't know of a way to secure them strongly, in aesthetically pleasing and aim-anble way...


----------



## pokekevin

Have you tried heights before opting for wides?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pokekevin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22738524
> 
> 
> Have you tried heights before opting for wides?



Heights I am doing with m1's, when Santa brings the 8801... But harder to do proper heights...


----------



## thrang

So it looks like I can move that wall unit - which means I can fit another pair of 803D2's as wides....


This will be fun...


----------



## pcweber111

Have a Happy Holidays Thrang! Remember to embrace what's important to you and also give that system a whirl, it needs love and attention too!


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22740499
> 
> 
> So it looks like I can move that wall unit - which means I can fit another pair of 803D2's as wides....
> 
> This will be fun...



LOL.. I just assumed you were going to move your current 803's if you could move the wall unit, not get another pair







Very, very nice. You could try and find a used pair of piano black 802's







four 802's up front would be wild. Either way, can't wait to see those pictures


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcweber111*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22740702
> 
> 
> Have a Happy Holidays Thrang! Remember to embrace what's important to you and also give that system a whirl, it needs love and attention too!



Thanks - merry Christmas - busy preparing for dinner tomorrow, so the toys sit idle -


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22740751
> 
> 
> LOL.. I just assumed you were going to move your current 803's if you could move the wall unit, not get another pair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very, very nice. You could try and find a used pair of piano black 802's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> four 802's up front would be wild. Either way, can't wait to see those pictures



But then I would lose the 803's for the surrounds...


----------



## Rod#S

I meant keep the 803's in the surround position and get a 2nd pair of 802's, so it would be four 802's up front, the HTM2, the existing 803's for surrounds and existing 805's for rears rather than two 802's, two new 803's for widths, the HTM2, your existing 803's for the surrounds and your existing 805's for the rears.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22740954
> 
> 
> I meant keep the 803's in the surround position and get a 2nd pair of 802's, so it would be four 802's up front, the HTM2, the existing 803's for surrounds and existing 805's for rears rather than two 802's, two new 803's for widths, the HTM2, your existing 803's for the surrounds and your existing 805's for the rears.



Yes, I understand you latter post as this, but you original post about putting the 803's to side was what I was reponding to...


Nonetheless, I'm crazy (803) but not that crazy (802)!


But an interesting thought!


----------



## pokekevin

802s for wides? crazy talk!


----------



## Rod#S

No such thing as crazy my friend







That's like people saying it doesn't matter what speaker is used for surround speakers regardless of what the front 3 might be. I have never had an opportunity to listen to a system with wides yet and the manufacturers are oddly very vague in what the speakers real role is supposed to be such as how much content is being sent to these speakers and what frequency range the speakers are seeing however with the wides being up front the human ear is more likely to be able to pick out differences in performance in a wide speaker than a surround and especially a rear speaker.


What I would like to know with absolute certainty and it would be interesting to be able to do a test of this is to see if whenever the main L/R speakers get a signal if the wides also get the signal (and if it is the same frequency band or somehow always frequency restricted) and if there is no signal in the L/R speakers if the wides ever get their own discrete signal. This second scenario is unlikely considering there is no Blu-ray support for discrete channels beyond 7.1, you would need 9.1 discrete as channels 6 and 7 are used for rear surrounds, currently all channels beyond 7.1, so 8.1, 9.1, 10.1 and 11.1 are accomplished via matrix processing. Knowing all of this would go a long way in understaning the role the wide speaker plays. If going by the very name alone, wide/width one could make a reasonable assumption that these speakers are strictly tied to the signals of the main L/R speakers to widen or spreadout the soundstage but in practice that may not be what is happening. The other complication that comes to mind is different manufacturers using these speakers in different ways because these width channels, just like the height channels are essentially made up channels, for example dts probably derives these signals differently than Audyssey. Dolby only has support for heights so they aren't currently a player.


----------



## Franin

Hey Thrang did you have a lovely Christmas?


----------



## thrang

Yes Franks, thanks - tried some "Gordon Ramsay" recipes - not for me however - how about you?


Just finishing an 11 point Pro cal on the new 8801!


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22744472
> 
> 
> Yes Franks, thanks - tried some "Gordon Ramsay" recipes - not for me however - how about you?
> 
> Just finishing an 11 point Pro cal on the new 8801!




Gordon Ramsay has some nice food but wouldn't want to work for him







we had a great Christmas thank you with family on both sides.







congrats on your 8801 how is it? How did you go with the 11 point cal ?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22744488
> 
> 
> Gordon Ramsay has some nice food but wouldn't want to work for him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we had a great Christmas thank you with family on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> congrats on your 8801 how is it? How did you go with the 11 point cal ?



Way too early to make any meaningful judgements, but a bit ambivalent about the sound at the moment...Pro cal oddly set one sub at 6.1 feet away (actual is 13.2), while the other it set at 14.3 (actual 13.6) All other distances seem normal, both subs are identical and did not have such results with the Integra 80.3 cal.


May do a standard Audyssey 3 point cal to check the distances, and then another quick 3 point Pro to see if there's an issue or just a one time anomaly.


----------



## Rod#S

Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22745472
> 
> 
> Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.



Let's see - doing another cal now...I've also emailed Audyssey tech support to see if they can address anything in this regard....


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22745472
> 
> 
> Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.



Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.


Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/200_100#post_22752611
> 
> 
> Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.
> 
> Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....



Awesome stuff Thrang. Wides and heights that will be amazing


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22752803
> 
> 
> Awesome stuff Thrang. Wides and heights that will be amazing



I hope my idea for the brackets will work - I know someone adept with a welder, and would get it powder coated for a nice finish.


He won't be around till January 20th or so, so a little time to speculate...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22752611
> 
> 
> Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.
> 
> Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....



Excellent, I'm gald the second calibration worked out. I look forward to your new wide and height setup. Seeing 805's mounted as heights will look awesome







So for your wall unit are you just moving it, say to the rear of the room or getting rid of it completely?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/180#post_22752993
> 
> 
> Excellent, I'm gald the second calibration worked out. I look forward to your new wide and height setup. Seeing 805's mounted as heights will look awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So for your wall unit are you just moving it, say to the rear of the room or getting rid of it completely?



The wall unit barely fits in my office, so it will go there- I have some decorative handmade Turkish rugs to hang on the wall to dress it up and help reduce reflection points...I'll need to drill some new wire holes since some wires currently hidden by the wall unit will be exposed. This will also allow be to experiment with other sub positions to see if there is any further improvement to be had


----------



## thrang

803's arrived already - faster than I could prep the room!


Letting them acclimate for a while as there was some condensation on the outside of the speaker when unpacking....


----------



## Rod#S

Good lord man, do you have B&W on speed dial


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22754072
> 
> 
> Good lord man, do you have B&W on speed dial



One day freight to my dealer, and I guess any sales they can book before the end of the years helps their numbers...


----------



## Rod#S

One day, can't ask for better then that. Make sure to post pictures


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22754634
> 
> 
> One day, can't ask for better then that. Make sure to post pictures



I should have gone to the chiropractor AFTER today's work...jeez....


----------



## Rod#S









the 803's aren't exactly feather weights.


----------



## pcweber111

Hey just stumbled across this on Youtube, thought you might like it:


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcweber111*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22757558
> 
> 
> Hey just stumbled across this on Youtube, thought you might like it:



I had watched that some time back, but good to see it again. Thanks for posting the link


----------



## pcweber111

Yeah I thought it was just impressive the craftsmanship that goes into making their speakers.


----------



## thrang




----------



## Rod#S

A wall of B&W Diamonds, I love it. Do you know what angle you have them at, the wides I mean?


----------



## thrang

About 58-60 degrees


----------



## Rod#S

Cool, so are they hooked up and running? If so do you notice a difference in imaging compared to the 805's? How do you like the subs on the side walls?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22759826
> 
> 
> Cool, so are they hooked up and running? If so do you notice a difference in imaging compared to the 805's? How do you like the subs on the side walls?



Running the last of a 12 point Pro cal now, so let's see - I've read that sidewall position can provide the most even response, and I've never been able to try it with the wall unit there.


----------



## Rod#S

Cool. Yes I have read the same about subs as well but like you I've never been able to try it due to room layout. The ideal setup for the smoothest response is aparantely 4 subs positioned at the mid points of each wall. I was hoping to at least buy the subs to pull this off at some unknown point in the future but Paradigm discontinued the Sub 25 on me so that went out the window


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22759857
> 
> 
> Cool. Yes I have read the same about subs as well but like you I've never been able to try it due to room layout. The ideal setup for the smoothest response is aparantely 4 subs positioned at the mid points of each wall. I was hoping to at least buy the subs to pull this off at some unknown point in the future but Paradigm discontinued the Sub 25 on me so that went out the window




Didn't like it at all - I think the benefit of raising the subs, which I cannot do on the sidewalks, is appreciable. Back on the platforms....


----------



## Rod#S

Interesting so the raising of the subs has a pretty big impact on the sound more so than side wall placement, I definitely wouldn't have called that. Great experiment.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22760984
> 
> 
> Interesting so the raising of the subs has a pretty big impact on the sound more so than side wall placement, I definitely wouldn't have called that. Great experiment.



Yes - well, when you think about it, there is generally great attention paid to how close a sub is to side walls, rear walls, corners, in terms of impact. But ceiling and floors are generally not considered, and they are boundaries just the same...


----------



## thrang

Updated first post with new photos of latest setup


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22763713
> 
> 
> Updated first post with new photos of latest setup



Wow.. very nice Greg. You are officially a pig!










Look forward to checking it out.


----------



## thrang

I've been a pig far too long....I need stretchy pants...


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22763755
> 
> 
> I've been a pig far too long....I need stretchy pants...



You liking the Marantz? How does it compare to the Onkyo and Classe IYO?


----------



## wkingincharge

Excellent looking system you have there it looks like its so enveloping!! I have demoed the 802's more times than I can think of and every time it's a pleasure.


Regarding your subwoofer height level I have read so much how that axis is forgotten so my next room I am going to try raising mine to hear if it benefits me.


----------



## Rod#S

Great pics


So let me get this straight, you went from what was it Emotiva (or was it Wyred4Sound) amps, to McIntosh now to Marantz? So do you like the Marantz better or did you get it more so just to match the 8801? With the Marantz and McIntosh being so close in power I suspect there wouldn't be much difference in performance between the McIntosh's 200 watts vs the Marantz's 150 watts.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22765084
> 
> 
> Great pics
> 
> So let me get this straight, you went from what was it Emotiva (or was it Wyred4Sound) amps, to McIntosh now to Marantz? So do you like the Marantz better or did you get it more so just to match the 8801? With the Marantz and McIntosh being so close in power I suspect there wouldn't be much difference in performance between the McIntosh's 200 watts vs the Marantz's 150 watts.



No, the McIntosh is still there, but I needed additional amplification for the rears and heights, so I took a advantage of the bundled deal....


However, I am looking at the mc303 for the fronts...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22765124
> 
> 
> No, the McIntosh is still there, but I needed additional amplification for the rears and heights, so I took a advantage of the bundled deal....
> 
> However, I am looking at the mc303 for the fronts...



lol, I completely forgot about powering channels 8,9,10 and 11, doh! A 303 for the front would be nice. It's funny though as you are in an odd position in which your widths and side surrounds are more power hungry than your center as the 803's are rated for the same power as the 802's but I guess in reality the center will get more of a workout though.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22765248
> 
> 
> lol, I completely forgot about powering channels 8,9,10 and 11, doh! A 303 for the front would be nice. It's funny though as you are in an odd position in which your widths and side surrounds are more power hungry than your center as the 803's are rated for the same power as the 802's but I guess in reality the center will get more of a workout though.



They all have the same sensitivity (90db) - why are you saying they're more power hungry? Their max rating?


----------



## Rod#S

Yeah, I know the 802 can dip to 3 ohms so the 803's may have low dips as well so having an amp with decent power into 4 ohms could come in handy if you do any loud listening running the speakers full range. My Bryston's are all 330 watts at 8 ohms actual (which is very similar to the McIntosh MC303) and 500 into 4 ohms (I can't remember the actual into 4, I would have to look at my spec sheets) and I haven't had any issues thus far with my 802's even running full range but my room is a fraction of the size of yours.


----------



## leo2498

Hi thrang, I see you was discarded the classe CP800, what happened with this? the marantz was better in performance in two channels audio?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22769488
> 
> 
> Hi thrang, I see you was discarded the classe CP800, what happened with this? the marantz was better in performance in two channels audio?



I ultimately preferred my M2Tech Young DAC via the Integra 80.3 over the CP 800 - a more natural, larger soundstage.


Now I haven't even hooked up my macmini to my marantz yet, or try the Young through the marantz yet to see what I prefer. Probably later today or over the weekend.


----------



## Rod#S

Hey Thrang, I know you now have a lot invested in the B&W towers but did you ever consider building up the sytem using just the 805's?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/210#post_22772831
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang, I know you now have a lot invested in the B&W towers but did you ever consider building up the sytem using just the 805's?



Not really; I know the traditional HT rule is to cross at 80, but I've been experimenting a lot, and I'm finding a better soundfield running at full range or 40 with my towers than at 80, something I could never do with the 805's all the way around.


----------



## Rod#S

Yeah I also run my 802's with a low crossover and doing so provides a fuller sound which I really like. I take a similar approach in speakers and use towers whenever practical. In my old Paradigm 7.1 setup I used Studio 60's for the rears but due to space limitations used ADP's for the surrounds and it was with that setup I discovered how much more I liked being able to lower the crossover even though I was using subs and plan to do the same as I expand my B&W setup this Srping.


----------



## Rod#S

You finally have some competition although with not as big of speakers







I was just looking at B&W's facbook page and a ways down is a shot of someone's theater setup for wides and heights. They choose to go 804's for the mains, wides and surrounds and what must be 805's for heights. The center is the HTM2. There is no shot of the rears, if there are any. I wish there were a few more shots because I'm curios how the 805's are mounted.

https://www.facebook.com/BowersWilkins 


The picture is back on Dec 1,


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22773100
> 
> 
> You finally have some competition although with not as big of speakers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just looking at B&W's facbook page and a ways down is a shot of someone's theater setup for wides and heights. They choose to go 804's for the mains, wides and surrounds and what must be 805's for heights. The center is the HTM2. There is no shot of the rears, if there are any. I wish there were a few more shots because I'm curios how the 805's are mounted.
> https://www.facebook.com/BowersWilkins
> 
> The picture is back on Dec 1,



I don't have a Facebook account so I can't see past the first highlight page it seems...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22773146
> 
> 
> I don't have a Facebook account so I can't see past the first highlight page it seems...



Neither do I. The page can take a long time to load up though, there isn't multiple pages so the data just keeps going down on that one main page but with a slow Internet connection the loading is brutal.


----------



## mookie b




----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22773881



Looks great - thanks for posting- cant tell how the 805s are mounted - possibly just a shelf?


With 9 foot ceilings, ill need a way to angle them down...


That reminds me, I should do a panorama shot!


----------



## Rod#S

Doh! Sorry, I should have done the obvious for you as mookie b did and put the picture here but got distracted with work, oops, I should have said I was working and got distracted by the cool picture










Do the surrounds look like they are in front of the seating area like yours or is it just the panorama effect making it look like that do you think?


----------



## mookie b

For the record, I'm jealous of you guys with big rooms....I'd love to add 6 speakers to my 5.2 setup!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22784343
> 
> 
> For the record, I'm jealous of you guys with big rooms....I'd love to add 6 speakers to my 5.2 setup!



To really piss you off, I will be posting a panorama of the front shortly...


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22784446
> 
> 
> To really piss you off, I will be posting a panorama of the front shortly...



Ha! I'd love to see it Thrang!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22784513
> 
> 
> Ha! I'd love to see it Thrang!



Ok, posted in first thread...


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22784520
> 
> 
> Ok, posted in first thread...



Thrang, how is the Marantz? What did you have before? I tried to look through your thread...


Nice projector, I have the same one!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22787498
> 
> 
> Thrang, how is the Marantz? What did you have before? I tried to look through your thread...
> 
> Nice projector, I have the same one!



It's a fantastic processor - I posted my thoughts in the 8801 thread.


I had the Integra 80.3 prior to the 8801, and the Classe SSP 800 before that.


----------



## mookie b

Did you compare these processors in that thread? I'd definitely like to read that...


Think I found it, nevermind. So, sounds like it was a matter of room correction....interesting. My wheels are spinning...


----------



## thrang

The MC302's are installed! Sounds superb... The reputation of McIntosh is well earned...what fantastic amps they manufacture!


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22803834
> 
> 
> The MC302's are installed! Sounds superb... The reputation of McIntosh is well earned...what fantastic amps they manufacture!



Pix!


----------



## thrang

Some quick ones - need to get the exposure right for the meters and the room in my next attempts...


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22803932
> 
> 
> Some quick ones - need to get the exposure right for the meters and the room in my next attempts...



Amplifier porn! Looks good.


----------



## pcweber111

Yeah that's nice. I love the look of McIntosh stuff.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcweber111*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22804071
> 
> 
> Yeah that's nice. I love the look of McIntosh stuff.



I really am impressed with the fidelity of these amps..the reputation is deserved...


----------



## Rod#S

Nice pics of the Mac and the panorama shot is neat. So those Mac amps, one is the 303 (heavy sucker isn't it







), what is the other, I see you are selling your 8207 and I know it's not that amp in the pictures above?


----------



## Rod#S

Never mind, it's the 302







, I need to read better










So what speakers are the Mac's powering, obviously the 802's and HTM2 and I'm assuming one pair of 803 but which pair?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22804571
> 
> 
> Never mind, it's the 302
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I need to read better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what speakers are the Mac's powering, obviously the 802's and HTM2 and I'm assuming one pair of 803 but which pair?



Two 302s are powering the wides and the surrounds


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22804647
> 
> 
> Two 302s are powering the wides and the surrounds



Ah two fo them, very nice.


----------



## audioguy

Your room is one of my three favorites (no, mine is not included). The other two look more like traditional home theaters, one more understated than the other. Your room looks spectacular: beautifully decorated; warm inviting colors and just plain comfortable looking. A great place to hang out and watch Alabama beat the fool out of Notre Dame, or put on a great movie and just sit back and relax. And given the quality of the audio equipment, just listening to music must be incredible as well.


Very, very nice. Very.


Sonically, for movies, I would put mine near the top, but cosmetically, it is much more function over form. (But when the lights are off, who knows







)


Again - beautiful room. Nice job.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22813570
> 
> 
> Your room is one of my three favorites (no, mine is not included). The other two look more like traditional home theaters, one more understated than the other. Your room looks spectacular: beautifully decorated; warm inviting colors and just plain comfortable looking. A great place to hang out and watch Alabama beat the fool out of Notre Dame, or put on a great movie and just sit back and relax. And given the quality of the audio equipment, just listening to music must be incredible as well.
> 
> 
> Very, very nice. Very.
> 
> 
> Sonically, for movies, I would put mine near the top, but cosmetically, it is much more function over form. (But when the lights are off, who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> Again - beautiful room. Nice job.



Thanks - I really like your setup and equipment, and half the time, I wish I had a dedicated "theater" space, since I could do more acoustically... but on balance, the multi-purpose approach of my space works well for my home.


The wide orientation of my room really helps with minimizing side reflections, and the new Mac amps are superb...


You caught me with my Audyssey down...did a little reconfiguration of my sub locations, and doing a new Pro cal are we type, desperately trying to finish before my wife gets home from the airport!


----------



## audioguy

Thanks. It works and my wife LOVES the feeling of just being in the room -- with the colors and the room treatment, very "tranquil".


It never ends. I have 4 subs, one in each (approximate) corner. But after measuring (OmniMic) just the front and just the back, I may try with all four in the back. The back two are almost as flat as all four BUT, there is not the huge dip from the front two that the back two must make up for. And my hope is that I get a bit more impact (if that is actually even possible).


All that to say that I get to screw around with Audyssey (Pro) again as well. (Audyssey must be female: can't live with it and can't live without it)


As to room treatments, GIK has some that are done like artwork and might work in your room (assuming your spouse would go along)


see http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-artpanel-acoustic-panels/ 


you can use any art work you want.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22817461
> 
> 
> Thanks. It works and my wife LOVES the feeling of just being in the room -- with the colors and the room treatment, very "tranquil".
> 
> 
> It never ends. I have 4 subs, one in each (approximate) corner. But after measuring (OmniMic) just the front and just the back, I may try with all four in the back. The back two are almost as flat as all four BUT, there is not the huge dip from the front two that the back two must make up for. And my hope is that I get a bit more impact (if that is actually even possible).
> 
> 
> All that to say that I get to screw around with Audyssey (Pro) again as well. (Audyssey must be female: can't live with it and can't live without it)
> 
> 
> As to room treatments, GIK has some that are done like artwork and might work in your room (assuming your spouse would go along)
> 
> 
> see http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-artpanel-acoustic-panels/
> 
> 
> you can use any art work you want.



It's funny, I was just spending today with REW testing different sub positions before a new Audyssey run for the new amps - moving forward and outward about seven and three inches respectively really smooth out the response at the MLP. Not as much luck with the main, given the limited positioning options, but got some improvement pushing them back and little closer together...did a new 10 point Audyssey (yes the beautiful girl with a naggy voice...) and got a very nice cal. I find it helps to lower my seat backs and put a blanket over the chair backs to help minimize close reflections to the mic.


I Like GIK - my problem is I have almost no open wall space, with all the windows, the screen, and the Turkish rugs... but I'll give them another look...


----------



## thrang

Updated several of the images on the first page, with the MC 302's in place, and experimenting with my new lighting kit...


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/240#post_22817666
> 
> 
> Updated several of the images on the first page, with the MC 302's in place, and experimenting with my new lighting kit...



Looks awesome thrang


----------



## Rod#S

Looking great.


How long are your cable runs? With your 303 and two 302's positioned so close to the speakers your speaker cables must be quite short but your interconnect lengths to those amps must be very long given the size of the room and are you running balanced cables?


----------



## thrang

Balanced XLR's right now are about 25 feet - I can reduce to 15 feet when I run under the crawl space - they're artfully concealed around the room perimeter for now...


I think better for longer balanced runs than longer speaker runs. This config also allowed me to use some Kimber Kable 8TC wire I had off of all the Mac amps..


----------



## Rod#S

Wow, I never would have guessed only 25 feet, I figured they would have been longer.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22821381
> 
> 
> Wow, I never would have guessed only 25 feet, I figured they would have been longer.



Room is about 26 wide by about 20 deep - the three XLRs to the 303 might be 30's, the two sides are 25, but if I wanted to I could reduce them once I run them under the flooring - but not necessary...


----------



## thrang

One thing I don't like about the MC303 are the lugs if you want to use spades - rather coarse threading, and very difficult to gets your hands in to tighten, and in fact had to use a pair of angled pliers to get sufficient tightness...the 302 lug design is much better.


----------



## thrang

Had some WBT Spades laying around from a past setup, so have been installing those on the amp side...


----------



## Rod#S

Odd that Mac makes it so hard to get to, at least in the 303. What about bananas, they must be easy enough to insert? I prefer bananas myself, spades always seemed to come loose over time.


----------



## thrang

The bananas I've tried work of course, but always feel a tad loose...including some WBT bananas...


----------



## WestCoastD

I've been happy using AudioQuest banana plug design, they provide optimum contact, don't pull out or move around.
 


Thrang your system is killer!


I'm sure you've probably explained in previous post's, but how are you integrating, or connecting, your various amps? Using very long XLR cable runs (all the way back to the AV8801)?


BTW, how are folks attatching images to a post such that they appear without needing to open?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22833862
> 
> 
> I've been happy using AudioQuest banana plug design, they provide optimum contact, don't pull out or move around.
> Jan2012_AudioQuest_BFA_BananaPlugs_01.jpg 13k .jpg file
> 
> 
> Thrang your system is killer!
> 
> 
> I'm sure you've probably explained in previous post's, but how are you integrating, or connecting, your various amps? Using very long XLR cable runs (all the way back to the AV8801)?
> 
> 
> BTW, how are folks attatching images to a post such that they appear without needing to open?



Thanks for the tip, I ordered four of the audioquests from amazon, so I'll give them a shot


Yes, using XLRs to the amps - right now they are following the perimeter of the room, but eventually I will run directly under the crawl space - sp 25 feet or less.


For the images, use the image link icon when posting a reply, paste a URL in or upload and image, and it will embed.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22834013
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip, I ordered four of the audioquests from amazon, so I'll give them a shot


yeah this is how I set-up my custom-built speaker cables: AudioQuest banana's on one end (to Monitor Audio speaker INP's), Monster Cable banana's on the other end (to Parasound speaker OUT's)
 
 
 

I'm using the crimp style AudioQuest banana's here. I also use the set-screw type as well on another set-up, they function great especially using solid copper speaker cable (I tin stranded wire using solder to create "solid" wire such that set-screws will fasten properly)


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22837805
> 
> 
> yeah this is how I set-up my custom-built speaker cables: AudioQuest banana's on one end (to Monitor Audio speaker INP's), Monster Cable banana's on the other end (to Parasound speaker OUT's)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the crimp style AudioQuest banana's here. I also use the set-screw type as well on another set-up, they function great especially using solid copper speaker cable (I tin stranded wire using solder to create "solid" wire such that set-screws will fasten properly)



They came in today, but I've been having some issues with my 8801, and other things, so I've not had a chance to try them...


----------



## WestCoastD

Hi:


Are you also using XLR interconnects for your JL Audio sub's? If so, what type/brand? I'm curious, as I'm contemplating whether to use RCA or XLR version (going from Marantz AV8801-to-F110)?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22891526
> 
> 
> Hi:
> 
> 
> Are you also using XLR interconnects for your JL Audio sub's? If so, what type/brand? I'm curious, as I'm contemplating whether to use RCA or XLR version (going from Marantz AV8801-to-F110)?



Yes, using XLR's for all connections - most are Monoprice, a few are from Wyred4Sound.


----------



## thrang

805 Heights are up - still need to clean up some wiring and finish the patch/repaint where the M1's were - need better pics, but for now....


----------



## thrang

Here are a couple of shots of the custom mounts:


----------



## adidino

Nice job!


Pig...


----------



## thrang

You flop in the slop pretty good yourself!


----------



## Rod#S

Looking good. How are the 805's being held in place, surely they aren't just balancing on the cross sections without a tightening mechanism? Can you notice much of a difference compared to the M1's? It's to bad your lights by your screen weren't where your 805's are now as the dts and DSX recommendation is for the heights to be above or close to being above the mains.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22907963
> 
> 
> Looking good. How are the 805's being held in place, surely they aren't just balancing on the cross sections without a tightening mechanism? Can you notice much of a difference compared to the M1's? It's to bad your lights by your screen weren't where your 805's are now as the dts and DSX recommendation is for the heights to be above or close to being above the mains.



I'm using the threaded bolt mounts under the 805s with lock washers.


Did DSX change their recommendations? I know DTS locates them above the heights, audyssey between the front and wide speakers.

 


Don't really have an option closer to the mains - maybe I could squeeze the mounting plate next to the window frame if the bracket arm would clear under the curtain rod, but that might be getting a little ugly


Will do some serious listening is weekend, and a recalibration.


----------



## audioguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22907291
> 
> 
> Here are a couple of shots of the custom mounts:



Who made these mounts for you? Mine clamp on the side so am not to inclined to slant them forward.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22908158
> 
> 
> Who made these mounts for you? Mine clamp on the side so am not to inclined to slant them forward.



A local long time handyman I know, who also owns welding equipment.


We mapped it out together, making sure we could utilize the bolt sockets- he got the steel, I did the lousy paint job, and the rest is history.


Took some time and trial and error especially since we designed the elevation angle into each mount - no elevation adjustment. The arm does swing left and right and locks with a large bolt and lock washer.


----------



## thrang

Here's a shot of the underside of the bracket, showing the access hole to mount the bolts into the speaker. There are two bolts in each speaker.


----------



## flashman03

This is truly a stunning setup! Well done.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flashman03*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22908248
> 
> 
> This is truly a stunning setup! Well done.



Thanks - I think I'm running out of things to change after all these years...!


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22908035
> 
> 
> I'm using the threaded bolt mounts under the 805s with lock washers.
> 
> 
> Did DSX change their recommendations? I know DTS locates them above the heights, audyssey between the front and wide speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't really have an option closer to the mains - maybe I could squeeze the mounting plate next to the window frame if the bracket arm would clear under the curtain rod, but that might be getting a little ugly
> 
> 
> Will do some serious listening is weekend, and a recalibration.



Good catch on the DSX layout. It's been a while since I looked, I thought both manufacturers were recommending the same configuration. My bad.


I think where you have them now works best with your current room layout.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22909465
> 
> 
> Good catch on the DSX layout. It's been a while since I looked, I thought both manufacturers were recommending the same configuration. My bad.
> 
> 
> I think where you have them now works best with your current room layout.



Because my centerline of the seating is shifted about 1.5 feet to the left of the room centerline, the left height and wide is a little off angle wise, but it's as close as I can get it.


I already sense much more contribution from the heights with the 805's - more this weekend...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22908217
> 
> 
> Here's a shot of the underside of the bracket, showing the access hole to mount the bolts into the speaker. There are two bolts in each speaker


so there are actually holes bored into the speaker cabinets?


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22907247
> 
> 
> 805 Heights are up - still need to clean up some wiring and finish the patch/repaint where the M1's were - need better pics, but for now...


looks good. Must be nice to have JL Audio subs "isolated"on platforms like you have there? Would imagine it took two people to hoist those bad-boys up onto those platforms, as they are heavy like rocks (I use one F110 and I have to call my nieghbor over to physically place it)


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22909963
> 
> 
> so there are actually holes bored into the speaker cabinets?



The 805's come with m6 bolt sockets in them, yes. This is to mount to their stands.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22909982
> 
> 
> looks good. Must be nice to have JL Audio subs "isolated"on platforms like you have there? Would imagine it took two people to hoist those bad-boys up onto those platforms, as they are heavy like rocks (I use one F110 and I have to call my nieghbor over to physically place it)



Yes a two person job - as I am literally sitting at a back surgeon's office as I type this, likely I should not be one of those two in the future...


----------



## Rod#S

don't forget about that 303, that is also one heavy beast , it's actually heavier than each of the subs


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/270#post_22908281
> 
> 
> Thanks - I think I'm running out of things to change after all these years...!










Nonsense







Add two more F113 subs, or replace your two F113's with two 212's or two Gothams


----------



## Rod#S

Well, between you and wse you guys have the best B&W setups I have ever seen. Take care of your back man, relax and enjoy the system in all it's glory.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22912532
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Add two more F113 subs, or replace your two F113's with two 212's or two Gothams



You are an evil voice...go away!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22912545
> 
> 
> Well, between you and wse you guys have the best B&W setups I have ever seen. Take care of your back man, relax and enjoy the system in all it's glory.



Thanks - watching a Sum of All Fears with my wife tonight...it's better than I remember, though anything with Morgan Freeman carries a certain _gravitas_...


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19116729
> 
> 
> *1_31_2013 Update:*
> 
> 
> 
> *- 805 height speakers with custom brackets*
> 
> 
> 
> Current setup:
> 
> 
> - B&W 802D2 L/R
> 
> - B&W HTMD2 Center
> 
> - B&W 803D2 Wides
> 
> - B&W 803D2 Surround
> 
> - B&W 805D2 Rears
> 
> - B&W 805D2 Heights
> 
> - Two JL Audio Fathom 113 Subs
> 
> - McIntosh MC303 Three Channel Amplifier
> 
> - Mcintosh MC302 x 2 Two Channel Amps
> 
> - Marantz 8801 Processor
> 
> - Sony VPL-VW1000 ES projector
> 
> - DaLite 133" 16x9 2.8 HP Fixed Screen
> 
> - Windows Media Center / MyMovies 4
> 
> - Mac Mini / Lossless Audio Library
> 
> - M2Tech Young DAC
> 
> - Sony PS3
> 
> - Oppo 103 Blu Ray Player
> 
> - Mede8er 1000 X3 Media Player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Only a  few low res shots show the new 805 heights - new set of high quality photos soon....)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old photo - no more 8207!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synology 20 TB LAN storage of Blu-Ray and DVD, fronted by on a Windows 7 Media Center server and MyMovies...


 

Whoa that is some impressive set up!

 

Here is mine I just upgraded my center front to an other 800Diamond 

 

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes&folderid=3141


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22922159
> 
> 
> Whoa that is some impressive set up!
> 
> 
> Here is mine I just upgraded my center front to an other 800Diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes&folderid=3141



Looks fabulous - you're sicker than !


I wish I could do a 802 center, or to convince B&W to resurrect the HTM1D


Really love your wood working and details.


I toyed with getting another set of 803's for rears and move the existing 805's to the height position, but that would have pushed the rears a bit too far apart.


You're selling your Classé gear? What are you moving too?


----------



## Rod#S

Here's that evil voice again







you could always buy a pair of 800's, move your 802's to either the wide or surround position (probably makes more sense for them to be in the surround position as that's an actual discrete channel not a matrixed channel) and move a pair of 803's to the rear. Why do you think the 803's would be to far apart? I think only the THX recommendation is for putting the rears close together. If you want to actually hear that you have two speakers in the rear they shouldn't be placed close together anyway, otherwise you will not be able to hear the panning of sound properly between them.


I too wish the HTM1D was not discontinued. We need to start a petition


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22925475
> 
> 
> Here's that evil voice again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you could always buy a pair of 800's, move your 802's to either the wide or surround position (probably makes more sense for them to be in the surround position as that's an actual discrete channel not a matrixed channel) and move a pair of 803's to the rear. Why do you think the 803's would be to far apart? I think only the THX recommendation is for putting the rears close together. If you want to actually hear that you have two speakers in the rear they shouldn't be placed close together anyway, otherwise you will not be able to hear the panning of sound properly between them.
> 
> 
> I too wish the HTM1D was not discontinued. We need to start a petition


I thought about this, but I think I would be introducing greater disparity between the mains the the center channel - yes, I would have put the 802's as surrounds, and put the 803's are rears.


My 805 rears are already about 7 or 8 feet apart on top of the credenza, which is very wide. To put 803's as rears would spread them to about 10-12 feet to clear the credenza, but with the rear wall only about 6 feet from the line of seats, I'm not sure that would be ideal.


----------



## Rod#S

Ah, 10 to 12 feet is quite a ways apart but that may not be an issue, it would definitely give good separation of the channels. Your 802's must be roughly 12 feet are they, perhaps a bit more? 6 feet is a bit close but I think also within reason. When I was running my 7.1 layout my rear speakers were 7 feet behind me and that seemed to work quite well even with the speakers being towers, they were Paradigm Studio 60v2's. They were a lot closer together though at about 3 or 4 feet, not by choice but by room layout limitations, I would have preferred them to be much further apart. With your 805's on the credenza they are safe and out of the way. If you were to do 803's I think it would only make sense if they were out of harms way. If they were in the line of traffice where they could be bumped by passers by would not be good.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22927025
> 
> 
> Ah, 10 to 12 feet is quite a ways apart but that may not be an issue, it would definitely give good separation of the channels. Your 802's must be roughly 12 feet are they, perhaps a bit more? 6 feet is a bit close but I think also within reason. When I was running my 7.1 layout my rear speakers were 7 feet behind me and that seemed to work quite well even with the speakers being towers, they were Paradigm Studio 60v2's. They were a lot closer together though at about 3 or 4 feet, not by choice but by room layout limitations, I would have preferred them to be much further apart. With your 805's on the credenza they are safe and out of the way. If you were to do 803's I think it would only make sense if they were out of harms way. If they were in the line of traffice where they could be bumped by passers by would not be good.



The fronts are about 12-13 feet apart, but of course I'm back about 12 feet or so...rear towers would be reasonably protected, but I have to sit in the room every time the cleaning crew comes by to stand guard for the rest of my speakers...


I can always try the 805's on stands further apart, where the 803's would go, to get some sense if the separation is too great for the distance from the plane of the seats....


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22927237
> 
> 
> The fronts are about 12-13 feet apart, but of course I'm back about 12 feet or so...rear towers would be reasonably protected, but I have to sit in the room every time the cleaning crew comes by to stand guard for the rest of my speakers...
> 
> 
> I can always try the 805's on stands further apart, where the 803's would go, to get some sense if the separation is too great for the distance from the plane of the seats....



LOL..I know the feeling of guarding the gear. I watch people very closely when they approach the 802's










That's actally a good idea about putting the 805's on stands to get them further apart to see how the sound images from where 803's would need to be placed.


I'm going to, or at least make my best attempt at the 800's this Spring. Given they are the same overall design as the 802's I don't think there will be any major variance with the HTM2 integration. The biggest difference is due to the lack of the marlan head and how that effects the sound compared to the 802 with an obvious lack of bass in comparison as well so my hopes are other than a slightly larger bass performance gap there won't be a huge change in the rest. That's a theory anyways


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22922159
> 
> 
> Whoa that is some impressive set up!
> 
> 
> Here is mine I just upgraded my center front to an other 800Diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes&folderid=3141


wow, that is some killer set-up there too! I'm a little confused, am I seeing two different B&W 802 set-up's?


Also how is fit with Classe components in that cabinet? Is the depth very close? How is cabling on rear, very tight?


----------



## thrang

Updated photos, including eval of new McIntish D100 DAC...VERY SWEET!


----------



## mookie b

That room has to sound amazing at reference level!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22974176
> 
> 
> That room has to sound amazing at reference level!



It does, though I'm generally -5 to -8 for most titles.


System is extremely revealing; you can really hear difference between how audio was recorded, mixed, and mastered...


----------



## WestCoastD

noticed you're using Synology network (NAS) server for hosting music and movie files. Are you actually doing extractions of BD and DVD video and audio modules and archiving yourself? If so what software are you using?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986809
> 
> 
> noticed you're using Synology network (NAS) server for hosting music and movie files. Are you actually doing extractions of BD and DVD video and audio modules and archiving yourself? If so what software are you using?



It's just for movies, and yes, I'm ripping everything I buy - about 410 titles so far.


I have been using AnyDVD HD for the longest time, ripping either to BDMV folder structures, or, in the case of 3D, ISO. And I have been using Total Media Theater 5 (Windows Media Center plug in) for playback.


However, I'm moving away from the PC because it takes too much time to keep running smoothly, too many weird playback issues always crop up, and, most importantly, ArcSoft's upgrade to version 6 includes Cinavia detection, and since there's no way yet to defeat this detection, any rips from AnyDVD HD of discs that have Cinavia will not play back (Arcsoft must support Cinavia or lose their license from the BDA). BMDV or ISO rips through TMT 5 was nice (when things worked smoothly) because Arcsoft, as a fully licensed player, supports regular Blu Ray menus.


Now I'm using a stand alone media player, the Mede8er 1000, and so I'm experimenting with MakeMKV for rips instead. Why? Well, since stand alone media players aren't BDA licensee's, they are not required to support Cinavia detection, which is good. However, this means they cannot support full menus either (essentially, the main title just starts to play). This is generally fine, HOWEVER, an increasing percentage of Blu Rays have branching features or multiple playlists that can make it difficult to playback the "correct" main title without the overarching logic full blu ray playback provides.


With MakeMKV, it will analyze all the available playlists on the disc, and you can choose one or more to rip as separate files (and delete the titles which you find are not the main titles). Its not perfect, but until someone hacks Cinavia (if possible), this is a pebble-in-the-shoe issue. At times, ther could be two dozen playlists to choose from, and short of a user-contributed, master database of identified main titles, it can be cumbersome to find the main movie.


----------



## pokekevin

Been using MakeMKV for all 789 of my blurays and it works perfect


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986987
> 
> 
> It's just for movies, and yes, I'm ripping everything I buy - about 410 titles so far.
> 
> 
> I have been using AnyDVD HD for the longest time, ripping either to BDMV folder structures, or, in the case of 3D, ISO. And I have been using Total Media Theater 5 (Windows Media Center plug in) for playback.
> 
> 
> However, I'm moving away from the PC because it takes too much time to keep running smoothly, too many weird playback issues always crop up, and, most importantly, ArcSoft's upgrade to version 6 includes Cinavia detection, and since there's no way yet to defeat this detection, any rips from AnyDVD HD of discs that have Cinavia will not play back (Arcsoft must support Cinavia or lose their license from the BDA). BMDV or ISO rips through TMT 5 was nice (when things worked smoothly) because Arcsoft, as a fully licensed player, supports regular Blu Ray menus.
> 
> 
> Now I'm using a stand alone media player, the Mede8er 1000, and so I'm experimenting with MakeMKV for rips instead. Why? Well, since stand alone media players aren't BDA licensee's, they are not required to support Cinavia detection, which is good. However, this means they cannot support full menus either (essentially, the main title just starts to play). This is generally fine, HOWEVER, an increasing percentage of Blu Rays have branching features or multiple playlists that can make it difficult to playback the "correct" main title without the overarching logic full blu ray playback provides.
> 
> 
> With MakeMKV, it will analyze all the available playlists on the disc, and you can choose one or more to rip as separate files (and delete the titles which you find are not the main titles). Its not perfect, but until someone hacks Cinavia (if possible), this is a pebble-in-the-shoe issue. At times, ther could be two dozen playlists to choose from, and short of a user-contributed, master database of identified main titles, it can be cumbersome to find the main movie.



I echo this completely--I'm a MakeMKV user, but selecting the right title can be hassle sometimes. I've had to do a couple re-rips early on, after which point I just started ripping all selections in the 23-43 GB range. I just skip through to triage and discard the files not needed for a title.


----------



## thrang

I'd like to think that someone, either slysoft, or the makers of makemkv could start a master database of title information, perhaps user contributed. This is becoming a form of anti piracy, by making it too cumbersome to find the right title. Of course I'm not pirating anything as I own every disc, but that doesn't help me.


So if some poor slob wastes an hour figuring out which title is what, throw that in the database and save others the hassle. Eventually, it would become a good resource. Unless I'm missing something as to why this wouldn't be possible...


----------



## thrang

Here's a warning - listened to Led Zeppelin's Celebration Day Blu Ray last night (or tried to), and the "lossless" audio is amongst the worst recorded i've heard in years! Shrill, no dynamics, horribly compressed mix (crowd in surrounds too loud, center channel too low) Piss poor. Sounds like an mp3 file from 10 years ago.


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22987959
> 
> 
> Here's a warning - listened to Led Zeppelin's Celebration Day Blu Ray last night (or tried to), and the "lossless" audio is amongst the worst recorded i've heard in years! Shrill, no dynamics, horribly compressed mix (crowd in surrounds too loud, center channel too low) Piss poor. Sounds like an mp3 file from 10 years ago.



Ah, lossless audio is a double-edged sword. It doesn’t lose any quality—if quality is there to begin with, but on the other side of that coin, it doesn’t lose the garbageness (new word) of a recording either.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22987992
> 
> 
> Ah, lossless audio is a double-edged sword. It doesn’t lose any quality—if quality is there to begin with, but on the other side of that coin, it doesn’t lose the garbageness (new word) of a recording either.



Yeah, GIGO


Not that I'm a huge Zeppelin fan, but I heard it was a great concert and Bonham's son, sitting in the throne for his father, was really good. What a let down - at times, he's banging on toms and they are barely in the mix...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22987959
> 
> 
> Here's a warning - listened to Led Zeppelin's Celebration Day Blu Ray last night (or tried to), and the "lossless" audio is amongst the worst recorded i've heard in years! Shrill, no dynamics, horribly compressed mix (crowd in surrounds too loud, center channel too low) Piss poor. Sounds like an mp3 file from 10 years ago.


that's too bad, I had purchased this disc back when it first released, waiting to get my AV8801 system set-up and running so I can watch it (did'nt want to watch it using my Denon AVR-2112CI system). I read a number of mostly good reviews, will have to wait and experience it for myself.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22989168
> 
> 
> that's too bad, I had purchased this disc back when it first released, waiting to get my AV8801 system set-up and running so I can watch it (did'nt want to watch it using my Denon AVR-2112CI system). I read a number of mostly good reviews, will have to wait and experience it for myself.



I had to quick throw on one of the Chris Botti concerts to cleanse my ears...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22989514
> 
> 
> I had to quick throw on one of the Chris Botti concerts to cleanse my ears...


haaa. Yeah I like Chris Botti, his "live" BD performances [are] very nice sources. Matter-of-fact I was recently at my local Best Buy/Magnolia test listening to their McIntosh MX-121/B&W 802 Diamond system (my first time ever experiencing these components functioning in-person), the sales-person used Chris Botti "Live In Boston" BD, the soundstage an imaging was incredible.


I have seen him "live" in-person quite a few times, playing with Sting as well as within his own jazz ensemble, great trumpeter and arranger. It's amazing how much of a following he has.
 
 
 


I'm really hoping Steely Dan releases a "live" BD mix from one of their recent concert reunion tours. I attended a few of their concerts in the last few years, they were incredible, they replicated all their famous music perfectly and cleanly, would provide for excellent "live" recording mix.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986987
> 
> 
> It's just for movies, and yes, I'm ripping everything I buy - about 410 titles so far


I see, wow that's quite a large archive, definitely would require ton's of memory. I have probably a few hundred titles myself (combination of DVD's and BD's), I've been researching popular file extraction software' trying to figure out which are best products to use. I'm at a point where I want to physically reduce the volume of video's from my shelves. Although I'll probably hold-onto my BluRay's.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986987
> 
> 
> I have been using AnyDVD HD for the longest time, ripping either to BDMV folder structures, or, in the case of 3D, ISO. And I have been using Total Media Theater 5 (Windows Media Center plug in) for playback


yes, I was reading about AnyDVD HD, seems to be a popular product. Not familiar with Total Media Theater product.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986987
> 
> 
> However, I'm moving away from the PC because it takes too much time to keep running smoothly, too many weird playback issues always crop up, and, most importantly, ArcSoft's upgrade to version 6 includes Cinavia detection, and since there's no way yet to defeat this detection, any rips from AnyDVD HD of discs that have Cinavia will not play back (Arcsoft must support Cinavia or lose their license from the BDA). BMDV or ISO rips through TMT 5 was nice (when things worked smoothly) because Arcsoft, as a fully licensed player, supports regular Blu Ray menus


yeah, PC's can be flakey, even a brand-new machine. I have been using a fairly new Dell/AlienWare Aurora gaming machine, mostly for running CAD programs (AutoCAD, Revit, etc.,...), it's amazing how many issues I experience on a weekly basis keeping things running and stable, including chronic system "freezing" episodes, where the cursor is stuck (no activity), forcing me to hard-boot, at least once per week. I have been using Iolo System Mechanic optimizer virusware/utility software for maybe 6 months now, a big help in maintaining some level of stability.


I'm sure a product such as ArcSoft's would have to support Cinavia to stay in business.


Since I have'nt yet experimented streaming (extracted) movie titles, I was wondering: can't we playback (via-NAS archive) using Oppo BDP-105 via-etherNet, and not screw with PC-based player? Will the Oppo read these BDMV and ISO modules?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22986987
> 
> 
> Now I'm using a stand alone media player, the Mede8er 1000, and so I'm experimenting with MakeMKV for rips instead. Why? Well, since stand alone media players aren't BDA licensee's, they are not required to support Cinavia detection, which is good. However, this means they cannot support full menus either (essentially, the main title just starts to play). This is generally fine, HOWEVER, an increasing percentage of Blu Rays have branching features or multiple playlists that can make it difficult to playback the "correct" main title without the overarching logic full blu ray playback provides.
> 
> 
> With MakeMKV, it will analyze all the available playlists on the disc, and you can choose one or more to rip as separate files (and delete the titles which you find are not the main titles). Its not perfect, but until someone hacks Cinavia (if possible), this is a pebble-in-the-shoe issue. At times, ther could be two dozen playlists to choose from, and short of a user-contributed, master database of identified main titles, it can be cumbersome to find the main movie


very interesting, thanks for that explanation. So what you're saying here is there are quite an array of files on any given recent BluRay release, it's just a matter of deciphering which are the proper file(s)? This is not done by the manufacturer purposely to make it difficult for extracting though? Are these "branches" representing various language versions?


I've read about MakeMKV as well. Seems many "extractors" are using. both, MakeMKV and AnyDVD products.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22990506
> 
> 
> haaa. Yeah I like Chris Botti, his "live" BD performances [are] very nice sources. Matter-of-fact I was recently at my local Best Buy/Magnolia test listening to their McIntosh MX-121/B&W 802 Diamond system (my first time ever experiencing these components functioning in-person), the sales-person used Chris Botti "Live In Boston" BD, the soundstage an imaging was incredible.
> 
> 
> I have seen him "live" in-person quite a few times, playing with Sting as well as within his own jazz ensemble, great trumpeter and arranger. It's amazing how much of a following he has.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really hoping Steely Dan releases a "live" BD mix from one of their recent concert reunion tours. I attended a few of their concerts in the last few years, they were incredible, they replicated all their famous music perfectly and cleanly, would provide for excellent "live" recording mix.



This may sound stupid, but I "think" I saw him live when Bruford, Torn & Levin first toured with their "Upper Extremities" release...but I wouldn't have really known who he was at the time...


Uh, awesome seats!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/300#post_22990817
> 
> 
> I see, wow that's quite a large archive, definitely would require ton's of memory. I have probably a few hundred titles myself (combination of DVD's and BD's), I've been researching popular file extraction software' trying to figure out which are best products to use. I'm at a point where I want to physically reduce the volume of video's from my shelves. Although I'll probably hold-onto my BluRay's.
> 
> yes, I was reading about AnyDVD HD, seems to be a popular product. Not familiar with Total Media Theater product.
> 
> yeah, PC's can be flakey, even a brand-new machine. I have been using a fairly new Dell/AlienWare Aurora gaming machine, mostly for running CAD programs (AutoCAD, Revit, etc.,...), it's amazing how many issues I experience on a weekly basis keeping things running and stable, including chronic system "freezing" episodes, where the cursor is stuck (no activity), forcing me to hard-boot, at least once per week. I have been using Iolo System Mechanic optimizer virusware/utility software for maybe 6 months now, a big help in maintaining some level of stability.
> 
> 
> I'm sure a product such as ArcSoft's would have to support Cinavia to stay in business.
> 
> 
> Since I have'nt yet experimented streaming (extracted) movie titles, I was wondering: can't we playback (via-NAS archive) using Oppo BDP-105 via-etherNet, and not screw with PC-based player? Will the Oppo read these BDMV and ISO modules?
> 
> very interesting, thanks for that explanation. So what you're saying here is there are quite an array of files on any given recent BluRay release, it's just a matter of deciphering which are the proper file(s)? This is not done by the manufacturer purposely to make it difficult for extracting though? Are these "branches" representing various language versions?
> 
> 
> I've read about MakeMKV as well. Seems many "extractors" are using. both, MakeMKV and AnyDVD products.



Excuse me, but I've just had two glasses of Coppola Cab at dinner, so this might not be completely right...


The Oppo was a tad better when first released, as it did support BDMV folder strucutres, but I think the BDA flexed its muscles and forced them to change via a firmware update a few months back - now you have to rename all movies folders as AVCHD, a storage nightmare. ISO I don't recall...it does however, apparently play MKV's. But there is no decent interface to browse hundreds of titles, so its not really suited as a media player in this regard.


The issues with some BR's (I don't know, maybe 10%?) is that they either have multiple playlists for legitimate reasons (differnet languages or special audio tracks) or less then legitimate reasons (to confuse rippers) Branching BR's, like all the Alien titles, Star Wars, most Pixar titles, are either various languages or theatrical vs. extended/director cuts.


Re: Arcsoft: yes on one hand you are correct, but in reality, I've got to think most people using a PC to play Blu Rays straight from disc are few and far between. It's far cheaper and simpler just to buy a damn stand alone player! So I think a big market was being able to play ripped files, and now that that's gone, I think the market for Arcsoft/Cybersoft will slowly whittle away. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Matter-of-fact I was recently at my local Best Buy/Magnolia test listening to their McIntosh MX-121/B&W 802 Diamond system (my first time ever experiencing these components functioning in-person), the sales-person used Chris Botti "Live In Boston" BD, the soundstage an imaging was incredible.


[


Wait a minute - Magnolia is now carrying the Diamond line and full McIntosh???


Can Rolex be far behind...?


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991619
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> Wait a minute - Magnolia is now carrying the Diamond line and full McIntosh???
> 
> 
> Can Rolex be far behind...?



A few do. The one in San Diego does.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991710
> 
> 
> A few do. The one in San Diego does.



My system feels so...soiled...now...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991619
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> Wait a minute - Magnolia is now carrying the Diamond line and full McIntosh???
> 
> 
> Can Rolex be far behind...?


yep, and I just bought a new Rolex there, not really







(I'd rather have a new pair of B&W 805 Diamonds)


Our local store (Pasadena,Calif) was recently converted from "Best Buy With Magnolia Inside" to "Best Buy With Super Magnolia Center". Seems they, Magnolia, are more physically and autonomously, separated from Best Buy, even though one retail store is inside the other. The Super Magnolia stores provide more full-line of products, as well as design services. I was shocked when I walked in there and noticed a rack of McIntosh gear with a pair of electro-static speakers, and high-end speaker cabling, interconnects, etc.,..This set-up was positioned on the outside sales floor. When I went inside the listening room they had the full line of B&W 800 diamond line, each model on different walls, along with Focal models. Also had a full array of McIntosh gear- AV pre-pro's/amp's, SACD player, CD player, stereo pre-amp/stereo amp's, etc.,... a few turntables.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991194
> 
> 
> Excuse me, but I've just had two glasses of Coppola Cab at dinner


I guess Cappola "Diamond Collection" cabernet is required for listening to "800 Diamonds"?








 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991194
> 
> 
> The Oppo was a tad better when first released, as it did support BDMV folder strucutres, but I think the BDA flexed its muscles and forced them to change via a firmware update a few months back - now you have to rename all movies folders as AVCHD, a storage nightmare. ISO I don't recall...it does however, apparently play MKV's. But there is no decent interface to browse hundreds of titles, so its not really suited as a media player in this regard


funny, I purchased an Oppo BDP-95 unit when it first released (back in March 2011), however I never used or even opened the box, as I moved to a new residence. By the time I was ready to set things up the BDP-105 and Marantz AV8801 were released. So I sold, both, the BDP-105 and a (brand-new, never opened) Marantz AV7005 AV Processor unit. The BDP-95 sold (very quick) for the price I paid for it, mostly because it had original release (un-molested) firmware (ie. ISO, BDMV, etc.,...). Now I'm thinking that unit would have probably been worth holding onto. Although I do prefer the new features the Oppo BDP-105 has (ie. USB DAC, HDMI INP, etc.,...), also no fan.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22991194
> 
> 
> I've got to think most people using a PC to play Blu Rays straight from disc are few and far between. It's far cheaper and simpler just to buy a damn stand alone player! So I think a big market was being able to play ripped files, and now that that's gone, I think the market for Arcsoft/Cybersoft will slowly whittle away. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't


Yes, BluRay players are very cheap now. However I'm guessing there is still a significant market of PC users watching/playing BluRay and DVD titles, being there are still a number of products (peripherals) produced to enhance sound experience, all-be-it, for a desk-top environment (ie. PC satelite speakers, sub-woofers, etc.,...). A segment of this population may be gamers, they already have robust PC's with high-end surround audio. On the other hand, however, we are moving moreso into a world of "tablets" (with no on-board drive). More are streaming movies from NetFlix, etc.,....portably on the go as well.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_22994157
> 
> 
> I guess Cappola "Diamond Collection" cabernet is required for listening to "800 Diamonds"?



Eh, the more I have of the former, the less discriminating I am with the latter!


----------



## thrang

Considering three of these across the front...


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016209
> 
> 
> Considering three of these across the front...
> 
> 
> Now you're just getting nasty. Wow.


----------



## thrang

Well, considering...haven't pulled the trigger...


But the improvements just moving the MC303 certainly are making me think about moving further up this food chain, at least for the front soundstage...


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016228
> 
> 
> Well, considering...haven't pulled the trigger...
> 
> 
> But the improvements just moving the MC303 certainly are making me think about moving further up this food chain, at least for the front soundstage...



You keeping the 303?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016430
> 
> 
> You keeping the 303?



No, I would sell it if I did this....


----------



## Rod#S

Before plunking down a small fortune on 3 of those is there any way you could get say three Emotiva XPA-1's or XPR-1's to see if the extra power will do what you think it's going to do? You could also try just two channels via the XPR-2 which is the same wattage as the Mac's. I know the Emotiva's don't get a lot of respect in high end setups but if it's a matter of spending a mere fraction of the Mac's in order to try the experiment on what more power will do it might be worth doing. If you like what the extra power does then you could sell the Emotiva's and get the Mac's.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016925
> 
> 
> Before plunking down a small fortune on 3 of those is there any way you could get say three Emotiva XPA-1's or XPR-1's to see if the extra power will do what you think it's going to do? You could also try just two channels via the XPR-2 which is the same wattage as the Mac's. I know the Emotiva's don't get a lot of respect in high end setups but if it's a matter of spending a mere fraction of the Mac's in order to try the experiment on what more power will do it might be worth doing. If you like what the extra power does then you could sell the Emotiva's and get the Mac's.



I am considering it, which is one of the reasons I haven't done the 601's


I am a former XPA-5 owner about a year and half ago, but wasn't convinced...maybe it was just a wattage issue...


I might check on audiogon for a use emotiva...


----------



## Rod#S

Weren't convinced that Emotiva can run with the high end manufacturers? I would say with the XPA-5 only being 100 watts shy of your current Mac's then it proably wasn't a wattage issue, or not just a wattage issue at least meaning there was a true difference in performance. Looking at the specs of the XPR-1's they seem terrific but require 20 amp circuits so you may not be able to experiment with them if you aren't configured for 20 amps. I would love to be able to do a test between the XPR-1's and Bryston 28B-SST's to see what basically a 10k difference in price yields for basically the same wattage.


Do you know anyone with Mac gear who has compared Emotiva monos againts Mac's monos?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017261
> 
> 
> Weren't convinced that Emotiva can run with the high end manufacturers? I would say with the XPA-5 only being 100 watts shy of your current Mac's then it proably wasn't a wattage issue, or not just a wattage issue at least meaning there was a true difference in performance. Looking at the specs of the XPR-1's they seem terrific but require 20 amp circuits so you may not be able to experiment with them if you aren't configured for 20 amps. I would love to be able to do a test between the XPR-1's and Bryston 28B-SST's to see what basically a 10k difference in price yields for basically the same wattage.
> 
> 
> Do you know anyone with Mac gear who has compared Emotiva monos againts Mac's monos?



No, it wasn't a panaché issue, I just wasn't thrilled with the sound, so yes, it would seem more a design/spec/performance reason.


After the Emotiva, I moved to the W4S mono blocks, similar experience - nothing wrong, but not "right." Then moved to the MC8207, where I began to see light, and to the current setup, which is the best things have sounded.


Yeah, I don't have separate 20 amp circuits for three amps up front if that's what's required. Not sure what that is, given once is not drawing anywhere close to that continuously, and the capacitors in the amp should handle momentary peak needs...but maybe their design is not as efficient...I know my Mac amps do not run hot at all.


No, I don't know anyone who has compared the monos, but I just started googling around for some anecdotal feedback comparing the two brands.


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017360
> 
> 
> No, it wasn't a panaché issue, I just wasn't thrilled with the sound, so yes, it would seem more a design/spec/performance reason.
> 
> 
> After the Emotiva, I moved to the W4S mono blocks, similar experience - nothing wrong, but not "right." Then moved to the MC8207, where I began to see light, and to the current setup, which is the best things have sounded.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't have separate 20 amp circuits for three amps up front if that's what's required. Not sure what that is, given once is not drawing anywhere close to that continuously, and the capacitors in the amp should handle momentary peak needs...but maybe their design is not as efficient...I know my Mac amps do not run hot at all.
> 
> 
> No, I don't know anyone who has compared the monos, but I just started googling around for some anecdotal feedback comparing the two brands.



I went from an XPA-5 to a MC205. The Mac amps are better, run cooler, definitely sound less bright. Whether the price increase is worth that is up to the person making the decision.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017428
> 
> 
> I went from an XPA-5 to a MC205. The Mac amps are better, run cooler, definitely sound less bright. Whether the price increase is worth that is up to the person making the decision.



Yes, though it's also the "delta" based on selling my MC303 (that dough is already baked...!)


I do think the resale value of the Mac's would be much higher, which, given my tinkering in this hobby, is also a key factor.


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017360
> 
> 
> No, it wasn't a panaché issue, I just wasn't thrilled with the sound, so yes, it would seem more a design/spec/performance reason.
> 
> 
> After the Emotiva, I moved to the W4S mono blocks, similar experience - nothing wrong, but not "right." Then moved to the MC8207, where I began to see light, and to the current setup, which is the best things have sounded.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't have separate 20 amp circuits for three amps up front if that's what's required. Not sure what that is, given once is not drawing anywhere close to that continuously, and the capacitors in the amp should handle momentary peak needs...but maybe their design is not as efficient...I know my Mac amps do not run hot at all.
> 
> 
> No, I don't know anyone who has compared the monos, but I just started googling around for some anecdotal feedback comparing the two brands.



Hard to say why it's a locked in 20 amp design. I checked both the Bryston 28B-SST and Mac 1.2k and both of those are 15 amp designs. I was thinking Emotiva might provide both a 15 amp and 20 amp power cord but I don't think they do. I guess it's possible an aftermarket one could be used but to be safe I would run that by Emotiva. My Furman SPR-20i for example is a 20 amp device like the XPR-1 but it came with both a 15 and 20 amp cord and I use the 15 amp one.


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017461
> 
> 
> Yes, though it's also the "delta" based on selling my MC303 (that dough is already baked...!)
> 
> 
> I do think the resale value of the Mac's would be much higher, which, given my tinkering in this hobby, is also a key factor.



Yeah the Mac will have a really good resale value.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016209
> 
> 
> Considering three of these across the front...


Guess it could'nt hurt (although you may have to do some weight training, as these unit's are like 126lbs shipping weight







). Definitely significant head-room boost. However, even more than that (I feel), you will delve into a noticeable lower THD at an equal "listening output", to put it simple.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23017944
> 
> 
> Guess it could'nt hurt (although you may have to do some weight training, as these unit's are like 126lbs shipping weight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Definitely significant head-room boost. However, even more than that (I feel), you will delve into a noticeable lower THD at an equal "listening output", to put it simple.



They would be dealer delivered and installed, that's for sure. I already have a bad back...


You know, the specs are basically identical between my prior 8207 and the MC 303, except for the additional power and the autoformers (well, and fewer channels on the same chassis). So one or more of those spec differences translated into a better presentation on my Diamonds for me.


Beyond doubling the power, the 601's would provide improved s/n ratio, more headroom, and quad balanced design over the MC303. Those who've gone down this path (on audioafficiando) seem to concur that the quad balanced design is significant improvement (not quantifying dollars to "significant", but just comparatively from a technology and sonic performance perspective).


Would be nice to be able to demo these in home, but that's a near impossibility...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23018694
> 
> 
> the 601's would provide improved s/n ratio...


essentially what I was getting at...........


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23018694
> 
> 
> quad balanced design over the MC303. Those who've gone down this path (on audioafficiando) seem to concur that the quad balanced design is significant improvement (not quantifying dollars to "significant", but just comparatively from a technology and sonic performance perspective)....


interesting, I'll have to read more on their quad-balanced design.


Beyond that, I'm sure you're in "well-enough" sonic category using the MC303, I would be. Tough decision whether or not to leave "well-enough" alone or go bigger, nicer? hmmmm.....................Actually I was just reading one of Kal's popular "Music In The Round" issues (No. 36), where he features the MC303 among other components (I'm sure you've probably read this short write-up):
http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_36/index.html 


Also noticed the B&W 800D's used in Studio Two at Abbey Road are employing Classe CA-M400, single-channel power amplifier/monoblock's (400W @8ohms). weighing 82 pounds ea., for their reference recording/mix systems. Very intriguing.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23021144
> 
> 
> essentially what I was getting at...........
> 
> interesting, I'll have to read more on their quad-balanced design.
> 
> 
> Beyond that, I'm sure you're in "well-enough" sonic category using the MC303, I would be. Tough decision whether or not to leave "well-enough" alone or go bigger, nicer? hmmmm.....................Actually I was just reading one of Kal's popular "Music In The Round" issues (No. 36), where he features the MC303 among other components (I'm sure you've probably read this short write-up):
> http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_36/index.html
> 
> 
> Also noticed the B&W 800D's used in Studio Two at Abbey Road are employing Classe CA-M400, single-channel power amplifier/monoblock's (400W @8ohms). weighing 82 pounds ea., for their reference recording/mix systems. Very intriguing.



Yes, its tough - the positive progression from the 8207 to the MC303 is whats making me wonder if I would see further improvements given the differences with the 601 design and power...but really, it's all sophisticated pissing in the wind...


And yes, I've seen Kal's review - his comments were one of several reasons that I moved that way


You know, those pictures make me chuckle, given all the conversation we have on this forum about acoustics...while I'm sure the room is supremely well treated, people on AVS are lambasted to remove a low coffee table from in front of their seats. though hear, there is a high mixing board almost at nose level....andwe are all taught to treat the walls behind the speakers to eliminate rear boundary effects, though the photos show the 800D's up against GLASS...


Makes you wonder what's important....


I think the Classé's, while monsters in their own right, were probably mandated as part of the agreement with BWGroup to do these setups - not that they didn't pass the sonic muster in their own right...


But, yes, more power...800 watts per speaker!


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23022205
> 
> 
> Yes, its tough - the positive progression from the 8207 to the MC303 is whats making me wonder if I would see further improvements given the differences with the 601 design and power...but really, it's all sophisticated pissing in the wind...
> 
> 
> And yes, I've seen Kal's review - his comments were one of several reasons that I moved that way
> 
> 
> You know, those pictures make me chuckle, given all the conversation we have on this forum about acoustics...while I'm sure the room is supremely well treated, people on AVS are lambasted to remove a low coffee table from in front of their seats. though hear, there is a high mixing board almost at nose level....andwe are all taught to treat the walls behind the speakers to eliminate rear boundary effects, though the photos show the 800D's up against GLASS...
> 
> 
> Makes you wonder what's important....
> 
> 
> I think the Classé's, while monsters in their own right, were probably mandated as part of the agreement with BWGroup to do these setups - not that they didn't pass the sonic muster in their own right...
> 
> 
> But, yes, more power...800 watts per speaker!



Either way, you're gonna be good! I assume your current setup is awesome, and this would crank it even more. I love McIntosh. Great company and there's a definite pride in ownership.


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23022205
> 
> 
> 
> But, yes, more power...800 watts per speaker!



That's not really the case though, sure they are bi-amping two 400 watt amps but due to the speaker's design they are not actively bi-amping thus getting very little if any benefit from having 2 amps. I have seen that shot before and just look at it as marketing. I think you would get more out of the amplification by feeding the speakers a single 1000 watt amp like the Bryston 28B-SST or Emotiva XPR-1 or the 1200 watt McIntosh 1.2kw.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23022205
> 
> 
> Yes, its tough - the positive progression from the 8207 to the MC303 is whats making me wonder if I would see further improvements given the differences with the 601 design and power...but really, it's all sophisticated pissing in the wind...
> 
> 
> And yes, I've seen Kal's review - his comments were one of several reasons that I moved that way!


from the outside-looking-in the MC8207 looks like a great piece of (200W X 7) multi-chan amplifier. Would love to compare this unit to my Parasound Halo A51 amp (250W X 5). 200W @8ohm range seems to be optimum for my Monitor Audio Gold GS60 full-range towers
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/support/past-products/gold-gs/gs60/#/specification 


Funny, in a 2012 CEDIA press-release article, it is noted how cost-savings were achieved by lessening the level of signature McIntosh cosmetic craftsmanship found in the MC8207 product (quote): "So if one is willing to accept a more squared chassis and electronic metering, the MC8207 makes seven channels of 200 watts each available at a never before attainable price point."
http://omegasales.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/ces-2012-mcintosh-labs-mx121-mc8207-and-mvp891-launch/ 

At $6000.00USD the MC8207 is un-attainable for many (such as myself)







But I'm very happy with my Parasound Halo amp.


B&W spec's list 800D amplifier recommendation range at 50W - 1000W @8ohm, that's quite a range. But, from many article's I've read (including Kal's No. 36 Stereo Review write-up), these speakers seem to thrive on high-current. 400W - 600W minimum seems to provide a more robust range of current.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23022205
> 
> 
> You know, those pictures make me chuckle, given all the conversation we have on this forum about acoustics...while I'm sure the room is supremely well treated, people on AVS are lambasted to remove a low coffee table from in front of their seats. though hear, there is a high mixing board almost at nose level....andwe are all taught to treat the walls behind the speakers to eliminate rear boundary effects, though the photos show the 800D's up against GLASS...
> 
> 
> Makes you wonder what's important...!


you're right, the lower-portion of the sound-field would seem to be cut-off from ear-sight. Although the mid-range and tweeters are above the mix-console. So maybe that's all that matters? I guess it's not as critical for the bass sound-field? I'm not aware, but are the 800D's rear-ported bass-reflex? I'd be curious to see the rear surface of the mix-panel, I wonder if it is treated (I would imagine so). But the rear-glass does seem negatively imposing.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23022205
> 
> 
> I think the Classé's, while monsters in their own right, were probably mandated as part of the agreement with BWGroup to do these setups - not that they didn't pass the sonic muster in their own right...


I've read a lot about the Classe amp's, but have never experienced one up-front. Classe became part of B&W Group in 2001. It was September 2005 when Abbey Road purchased multiple (33) Classé CA-M400's. So I can see the reasoning here...............


----------



## Rod#S

The 800's like the 802's are ported at the bottom of the cabinet.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23023036
> 
> 
> That's not really the case though, sure they are bi-amping two 400 watt amps but due to the speaker's design they are not actively bi-amping thus getting very little if any benefit from having 2 amps. I have seen that shot before and just look at it as marketing. I think you would get more out of the amplification by feeding the speakers a single 1000 watt amp like the Bryston 28B-SST or Emotiva XPR-1 or the 1200 watt McIntosh 1.2kw.



True Rod, good point.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23026330
> 
> 
> The 800's like the 802's are ported at the bottom of the cabinet.



Hi Rod


Not sure if that post was directed toward a particular point, but yes the 802's are downward ported as I presume the 800's are - no port plug options for these two speakers unlike the rest of the 800 line with front-firing ports...


----------



## Rod#S

Oh







I should have qualified my statement, when I said_"I think you would get more out of the amplification by feeding the speakers a single 1000 watt amp like the Bryston 28B-SST or Emotiva XPR-1 or the 1200 watt McIntosh 1.2kw."_ I was referring to the 800's in the Abbey Road picture not implying Thrang should bypass the 601's and go straight to the 1000 watt monsters for his 802's


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23026393
> 
> 
> Hi Rod
> 
> 
> Not sure if that post was directed toward a particular point, but yes the 802's are downward ported as I presume the 800's are - no port plug options for these two speakers unlike the rest of the 800 line with front-firing ports...



Sorry my bad, I forgot to quote WestCoast, yeah he had asked how the 800's were ported


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23026483
> 
> 
> Oh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should have qualified my statement, when I said_"I think you would get more out of the amplification by feeding the speakers a single 1000 watt amp like the Bryston 28B-SST or Emotiva XPR-1 or the 1200 watt McIntosh 1.2kw."_ I was referring to the 800's in the Abbey Road picture not implying Thrang should bypass the 601's and go straight to the 1000 watt monsters for his 802's



My diagnosis doesn't yet require a straight-jacket, so THAT ain't happening...


----------



## WestCoastD

Just curious, do you listen much to the 800D's in conventional stereo format (FL/FR) for music? If so are you using PURE DIRECT setting (on the AV8801)? Or are you listening in various surround modes?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23027077
> 
> 
> Just curious, do you listen much to the 800D's in conventional stereo format (FL/FR) for music? If so are you using PURE DIRECT setting (on the AV8801)? Or are you listening in various surround modes?



Me? I'm 802D2...but to answer, I'm listening mostly in Stereo mode to leverage Audyssey, though I am currently experimenting recalibrating without Audyssey (and awaiting an Anti-Mode 2.0 and some ceiling treatment) to compare.


I'm using the XLR analog in's from the external McIntosh DAC


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23027105
> 
> 
> Me? I'm 802D2...


oh, I see


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23027105
> 
> 
> I'm listening mostly in Stereo mode to leverage Audyssey, though I am currently experimenting recalibrating without Audyssey (and awaiting an Anti-Mode 2.0 and some ceiling treatment) to compare.
> 
> 
> I'm using the XLR analog in's from the external McIntosh DAC


okay, interesting. I was curious how clean, or what sonic differences, when setting to PURE DIRECT output, as opposed to regular STEREO (Audyssey enabled modes)


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/330#post_23016209
> 
> 
> Considering three of these across the front...



Your on the right track!


When I changed over from mc205 to MC601 for my 802d2 they literally came alive. Music and movies became so effortless and clearer. For some reason I felt the usual volume I would listen at to be not enough anymore as I could listen louder without fatigue. The speakers dissapered more,ambience became larger, the trebel and bass had more attack. The amps made as much difference to me as upgrading to the 802d2's. If you got the space, which looks like you do, 3 of those monsters across the front would look badass!


I love the amps so much I'm considering one for my center


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23030470
> 
> 
> Your on the right track!
> 
> 
> When I changed over from mc205 to MC601 for my 802d2 they literally came alive. Music and movies became so effortless and clearer. For some reason I felt the usual volume I would listen at to be not enough anymore as I could listen louder without fatigue. The speakers dissapered more,ambience became larger, the trebel and bass had more attack. The amps made as much difference to me as upgrading to the 802d2's. If you got the space, which looks like you do, 3 of those monsters across the front would look badass!
> 
> 
> I love the amps so much I'm considering one for my center



Thanks for the posting your experience...


I'm charging you 10% of the upgrade cost if I end up doing this...


----------



## WestCoastD

realizing you have 802D-2's (and not 800D's), 600W per/chan would probably optimize speaker output ("power-ratio") nicely


----------



## thrang

I think I am doing it - just need to secure the sale of the MC303 first...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23027105
> 
> 
> I'm listening mostly in Stereo mode to leverage Audyssey, though I am currently experimenting recalibrating without Audyssey (and awaiting an Anti-Mode 2.0 and some ceiling treatment) to compare. I'm using the XLR analog in's from the external McIntosh DAC


so you're performing manual measurements- using dB Meter readings, etc.,...? The Anti-Mode 2.0 looks interesting, never seen this before.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23034976
> 
> 
> so you're performing manual measurements- using dB Meter readings, etc.,...? The Anti-Mode 2.0 looks interesting, never seen this before.



Mostly listening tests, but I will do some checks on levels and overall frequency responses of various approaches, but honestly, I've never been completely comfortable that I know what I'm doing or seeing with REW. When I make changes that result in seemingly better graphs, it often sounds worse...


----------



## our martin

Nice choice of amps dac speakers and projector my friend..i had a mcintosh car stereo put in my girlfriends dodge challenger rt classic..came with a boston acoustic one which didn't do the hemy v8 justice..now it sounds the part..i have a mcintosh manhattan in my apartment in central park west new york city..haven't got a view of central park though(buy a castle in scotland for that price)..imagine the hifi you could get for the price of that view(haven't always had it) just saying.. i am just off broadway near columbus avenue a short walk away from central park!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *our martin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23035377
> 
> 
> Nice choice of amps dac speakers and projector my friend..i had a mcintosh car stereo put in my girlfriends dodge challenger rt classic..came with a boston acoustic one which didn't do the hemy v8 justice..now it sounds the part..i have a mcintosh manhattan in my apartment in central park west new york city..haven't got a view of central park though(buy a castle in scotland for that price)..imagine the hifi you could get for the price of that view(haven't always had it) just saying.. i am just off broadway near columbus avenue a short walk away from central park!



Thanks, yes mcintosh makes some great gear and that DAC is special for the price.


----------



## scanido

Hey Thrang,


I noticed you got a Synology NAS config, how are you finding them overall and do you find them adequate for streaming at least 2-3 bluray streams?


Currently shopping around for one.


THanks!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23056479
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang,
> 
> 
> I noticed you got a Synology NAS config, how are you finding them overall and do you find them adequate for streaming at least 2-3 bluray streams?
> 
> 
> Currently shopping around for one.
> 
> 
> THanks!



If you mean multiple simultaneous streams, I've not really done that, as most streaming occurs singularly to my theater.


But the performance is quite high; the gating factor may be the client side. For 2D, SMB is fine for any modern PC or media player as far as I can determine. I can also stream 3D flawlessly to my Mede8er 1000 media player using NFS protocol.


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23056546
> 
> 
> If you mean multiple simultaneous streams, I've not really done that, as most streaming occurs singularly to my theater.
> 
> 
> But the performance is quite high; the gating factor may be the client side. For 2D, SMB is fine for any modern PC or media player as far as I can determine. I can also stream 3D flawlessly to my Mede8er 1000 media player using NFS protocol.



Sounds good. Thanks for the quick feedback.


----------



## thrang

The MC 303 is officially up for sale...


----------



## Rod#S

Hopefully it goes quickly. As an alternative, have you considered keeping the 303 and selling one of your 302's thus using the 303 for the center and one of the pairs of 803's.? A 601 for the HTM2 just seems borderline bats#@t crazy







If it doesn't cost more than the HTM2 itself its got to be darn close. A pair of 601's must be approaching the price of the 802's, not more but really close I bet.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23066224
> 
> 
> Hopefully it goes quickly. As an alternative, have you considered keeping the 303 and selling one of your 302's thus using the 303 for the center and one of the pairs of 803's.? A 601 for the HTM2 just seems borderline bats#@t crazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't cost more than the HTM2 itself its got to be darn close. A pair of 601's must be approaching the price of the 802's, not more but really close I bet.



I've been struggling with the center issue a bit, so you have interesting idea -


----------



## Rod#S

It sucks that we don't have the HTM1 anymore, because that, like the 802's would be an ideal candidate for a 601. B&W definitely have moved away from home theater in their curent line up. I truly believe the only reason they kept the HTM4 and HTM2 is to ensure they could still tap into the home theater crowd's pocket books and figured that would be the cheapest way of doing so. Offering a couple centers is typically more appealing then offering dipole speakers for surrounds as a lot of people prefer direct radiating speakers anyways for side and rear surrounds.


----------



## thrang

Yes, I would love to see the HTM1 re-emerge..


----------



## drewTT

Damn, Thrang, updated system looks incredible!


Feel like adopting a clean, respectful 32 year old male? lmao


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drewTT*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23114090
> 
> 
> Damn, Thrang, updated system looks incredible!
> 
> 
> Feel like adopting a clean, respectful 32 year old male? lmao



Well, if you have a cute blonde sister who wants to join you, _and_ you're suddenly called away on business for several years in South America, maybe...


----------



## drewTT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23114138
> 
> 
> Well, if you have a cute blonde sister who wants to join you, _and_ you're suddenly called away on business for several years in South America, maybe...



Lol


----------



## Franin

Hey Thrang I noticed you posted in the Chroma Pure thread are you calibrating directly to your Sony? ( just looking at your equipment list )


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23162833
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang I noticed you posted in the Chroma Pure thread are you calibrating directly to your Sony? ( just looking at your equipment list )



Hi Frank


No, I have a Lumagen XE to calibrate - I just set the white and black points in the Sony using the custom 3 color temp setting


Guess I need to update my equipment list! Forgot that peice...


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23162931
> 
> 
> Hi Frank
> 
> 
> No, I have a Lumagen XE to calibrate - I just set the white and black points in the Sony using the custom 3 color temp setting
> 
> 
> Guess I need to update my equipment list! Forgot that peice...



I ended up with Calman 5 which I found taught me how to manually calibrate on the DUO. The Lugamen is definitely a nice Video Processor. I was told by a friend that a 4K version will be coming out soon.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23163211
> 
> 
> I ended up with Calman 5 which I found taught me how to manually calibrate on the DUO. The Lugamen is definitely a nice Video Processor. I was told by a friend that a 4K version will be coming out soon.



Yes, I was hoping to beta test the 4k unit, but haven't heard back from Randy


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23163223
> 
> 
> Yes, I was hoping to beta test the 4k unit, but haven't heard back from Randy



Best for me too hang back and wait.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/360#post_23162931
> 
> 
> No, I have a Lumagen XE to calibrate - I just set the white and black points in the Sony using the custom 3 color temp setting...


do you notice [obvious] improved video quality compared to running Sony straight? Are you routing through AV8801? Or bypassing AV8801 for video?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23212204
> 
> 
> do you notice [obvious] improved video quality compared to running Sony straight? Are you routing through AV8801? Or bypassing AV8801 for video?



I did not compare straight to the Sony as that would never be a scenario I would use...I'm bypassing the 8801 for video, and I find the image a bit sharper and vibrant, but nothing obvious.


----------



## thrang

For anyone interested, my Marantz AV8801 processor is for sale. Please PM me for details or see my sig.


----------



## Franin

What are you looking at know Thrang ?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23257076
> 
> 
> What are you looking at know Thrang ?



McIntosh MX-151 - had a chance to trial it for a week, no obligation. Super impressed with the sonics, and Room Perfect is in another league...I really was not expecting to hear much of a difference (and there certainly is a cost delta), but it really was too compelling to turn back, despite how good the 8801 is. Different price points, different tech....


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23257125
> 
> 
> McIntosh MX-151 - had a chance to trial it for a week, no obligation. Super impressed with the sonics, and Room Perfect is in another league...I really was not expecting to hear much of a difference (and there certainly is a cost delta), but it really was too compelling to turn back, despite how good the 8801 is. Different price points, different tech....



Thats awesome, looking forward in reading your impressions on Room Perfect.


----------



## Franin

One thing Ive noticed Thrang unless ive missed it is the MX-151 doesnt support heights and wides. Whats your plan with all those speakers?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23257282
> 
> 
> Thats awesome, looking forward in reading your impressions on Room Perfect.



Working on my metaphors and allegories now...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23257320
> 
> 
> One thing Ive noticed Thrang unless ive missed it is the MX-151 doesnt support heights and wides. Whats your plan with all those speakers?



Well, the 803's moved to the rear from the wide position, and one pair of 805's will likely see use in my office. The other pair (or perhaps both pairs) of 805's will be going up for sale.


This all instigated another room change, so that just got completed this weekend and I will be updating room photos in the next week or two...


----------



## dahlgren

Thrang, have you looked at the Datasat RS20i Processor? I don't believe there is a better processor on the market. With the amount of speakers you have this seems perfect.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dahlgren*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23261022
> 
> 
> Thrang, have you looked at the Datasat RS20i Processor? I don't believe the is a better processor on the market. With the amount of speakers you have this seems perfect.



Yes, two demos at different dealers, both underwhelming. I don't blame the RS20 as much as the dealers I suppose, but Datasat's dealer quality control was certainly suspect.


Also, not interested in investing that amount of coin in a processor - 151 was more than enought to be honest...


----------



## dahlgren

So after having the AVP & 8801, is it the quality of sound that puts the 151 above the others? Is it softer and less harsh? Also you mentioned Room Perfect to be much better. I have an 3D AVP. 9.2 is great, movies great, but music can be shrill at times. My old MX132 was never harsh, but no HDMI, limited codex, or room correction. Most disappointing with Mac was no upgrades to processing codex. Has 1st gen ProLogic and Mac never offered any updates when PLII came out. This was why I left and went to the Denon camp. Has any of this changed?


----------



## thrang

This is what I posted on AudioAfficiando:

My initial thoughts on the MX-151...


As posted above, the MX-151 that I've been evaluating in home for a week will join my set-up permanently, replacing a Marantz AV8801 processor which I've had in place for about 5 months. Prior processors/receivers include the Integra 80.3, the Classé SSP-800, Denon 4311, and Denon AVP-A1 (non-3D model).


My amps are MC-302's and an MC-303, and speakers are 802D2 mains, HTM2D2 center, 803D2 surrounds and rears, and two JL Audio 113 subs.


I actually hemmed and hawed about bringing the 151 in, as I was really enjoying the 8801 (11.2 configuration with Audyssey Pro calibration), and had worked quite a bit to get the room configured for the expanded channels. Nonetheless, when the opportunity comes to try a 151 to audition in-home, that's tough to pass up. So in it came, and over the next few days, I reconfigured my amp and speaker wiring for a 7.1 hookup (slaving my 2 JL Audio subs off the 151 sub out channel), and leaving my 805s in the rear from the 8801 configuration for the moment (as I was not sure I was committing to the 151, I didn't want to move the 803's - used as wides with the 8801 - until I had a better sense as to what I was doing).


My initial listening was without a Room Perfect calibration, just set the levels and distances manually, and watched some TV and sports. My early impressions piqued my interest - very smooth and articulate, against a very black background. Still, no critical listening, and no Room Perfect.


Then I performed an Room Perfect calibration, achieving a 100% Room Knowledge with 17% correction. I started to play some Blu Ray's off my Oppo, as well as 1:1 rips off my Mede8er media server, and that's when I started to smile - a lot - to the point of shaking my head in acknowledgement of the quality I was experiencing.


I started with the 2013 DTS Demo Blu Ray, which has a lot of different cuts of movies and multi-channel music (it's not a perfectly authored disc however, as the levels aren't well matched between samples, and their promo clip interspersed throughout the cuts as no audio!) Still, cuts from The Hunger Games, Prometheus, Battleship, Safe House, and several other titles were simple compelling beyond expectation. Even though I dropped wides and heights, the 151 did such a great job with stereo pairing of all speakers, the envelopment was wonderful. The first music-only cut, "Listing" from Minus the Bear (a 7.1 encode) was so unreal (well, meaning REAL) that I could SWEAR there was sound coming precisely from my disconnected wide and height speakers, which was impossible - but I literally got up and walked over the speakers, finally breaking the imaging and proving I was not insane. The imaging between all adjacent speakers was that good. A friend and fellow hobbyist came by, and when I played the cut, he felt the same exact way - we were staring at speakers that were not connected (heights and wides), believing sound was emanating from them, While this disc (and title) was great on the 8801, I did not get the same surreal effect when listing in 7 channel mode with the Marantz.


I also played Monsters Inc., Rush: Time Machine; Porcupine Tree: Arriving Somewhere (an excellent DVD audio track); Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds: Radio City; Chris Botti: Live in Boston; Avatar; and other Blu Ray titles. All awesome.


The 151 produces a very dynamic and unencumbered sound, and Room Perfect is so different than Audyssey it's remarkable it's not more well known or licensed (I guess the cost is quite high). Certainly, low frequency performance, even with slaved subs vs the independent subs on the 8801, was by far the most noticeable improvement - so much more articulate and clear, and my concerns that I would miss the lower volume benefits of Dynamic EQ were vanquished - bass and LFE performance is properly engaging at all levels. Listening to various concert material particularly revealed this - the sound of the kick, snares, and toms was more visceral than I've heard before.


But midrange and higher frequencies seem more open too, or perhaps, less processed - whatever it is, I can make an analogy to digital photography - Audyssey Pro, in various processor embodiments, seems to provide really wonderful quality, but perhaps mildly compressed jpg images. The 151 appears to deliver uncompressed RAW files, and Room Perfect is optimizing within this expanded space. And the sound is crisp and clear without ever being harsh - not (again, using the digital imaging analogy) because of edge enhancement, but because of employing the audio equivalent of a high quality lens and large, ultra-low noise sensor.


Maybe this comparison is not fair to Audyssey, and perhaps the MX-121 sounds appreciably different than the 8801. But I can only comment on the various Pro calibrations I've done on my past processors, and while there are differences amongst them, the core impression is the same in comparison to Room Perfect.


This weekend, I moved some furniture around and did another RP calibration, 13 point / 100% Room Knowledge with 10% correction - will be doing some more attentive listening over the next few days, though there was some ambient noise in a few positions so I may re-do (BTW - is there a way to cancel the current room position and re-do, rather than aborting the whole process? If not, that would be nice to have added via firmware - with Audyssey Pro, you can do this if, say, someone decides to drop a bowling ball in the room above during your ninth position).


The 151 has some room for improvement, and it would be interesting to see what a 160/1 may bring in the future. I also wish I could understand (if possible) how to connect two subs independently and not have to configure my mains as XL or XXL, implying they would get the LFE signal while the subs duplicated this material (this is sort of what I understand to this point from McIntosh, though I may be getting this wrong. Still, its not as easy to set up independent subs as it is on the 8801, 80.3 or SSP-800). Yet the sub performance is so nice and impactful right now that it's more of a curiosity vs a necessity. I also find Surround Modes a bit confusing (I can have a display read-out that says: Proc: (Games) / DLPIIx Music...what does that mean?) It would also be nice to be able to keep the processing mode on the display, but it always reverts back to the input screen.


Overall, this processor does lots of things so well, I'm not bickering much. I'm not overly concerned about 4k, as I use an external Lumagen, and would probably get their 4k unit if and when necessary for my VPL-VW1000 - but it seems content is so far away, its not a very pressing issue.


Yes, the 151 is pricy, and perhaps future iterations will come in at different price points. But unless they find something even better, I certainly hope Room Perfect remains in the McIntosh lineup as new generation processors are designed.


As a side note, I use Roomie Remote, and I purchased the iTach serial device and programmed the serial codes to control the 151 without a hitch. Roomie does not yet appear to support feedback from custom devices, so that's a slight bummer, though not the 151's fault, as there are ample status codes available. The 151 also takes a while to boot/initialize, so this can complicate programming activities if you want to send a string of commands to the 151 (programming delays is possible in Roomie, but since you don't need them once booted, it slows down activity switching) I may just create a power up activity, and leave it at that.


The Mcintosh 151 web interface is also nice, and complete enough that I don't need to go into the on screen menu.


A bit wordy I guess, but hopefully this helps address some of your questions..


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23257125
> 
> 
> Room Perfect is in another league.......


really surprised to hear this


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264435
> 
> 
> really surprised to hear this



I've been told the same thing. Not sure if you need the right setup to take advantage or what....


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264435
> 
> 
> really surprised to hear this



Why?


I mean, I was actually NOT expecting to experience much of a difference, and perhaps the quality of the 151 in and of itself is a larger part of the equation (I sort of noted as much in my post- perhaps a 121 with Audyssey would be a different experience than what I'm used to so far)


Nonetheless, after four or five different units with Audyssey Pro over the years, and well over a 100 calibrations, I was surprisingly impressed with the 151/RP. Never had had low frequency performance like this....


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264561
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> I mean, I was actually NOT expecting to experience much of a difference, and perhaps the quality of the 151 in and of itself is a larger part of the equation (I sort of noted as much in my post- perhaps a 121 with Audyssey would be a different experience than what I'm used to so far)
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, after four or five different units with Audyssey Pro over the years, and well over a 100 calibrations, I was surprisingly impressed with the 151/RP. Never had had low frequency performance like this....



I'm not surprised. When I switched from the MX121 to the Marantz 8801, I could tell the sound was distinctively different. I'm sure the 151 is in that ball park, sounds like expanded upon even.


----------



## adidino

I was very impressed with the 151 in Thrang's room. Best the room has sounded IMO.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264694
> 
> 
> I was very impressed with the 151 in Thrang's room. Best the room has sounded IMO.



Until the Bryston pays a visit?


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264724
> 
> 
> Until the Bryston pays a visit?



We shall see.. plan to bring it over.


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264724
> 
> 
> Until the Bryston pays a visit?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264752
> 
> 
> We shall see.. plan to bring it over.



Bryston vs Mac, an epic battle if ever I have seen one










Interesting change there thrang, the system seems to be in a constant state of flux. As long as you are enjoying things more then that's all that counts whether it's expanding a setup or downsizing a setup. Before you know it you'll be tossing the B&W's for something else and running a 2 channel only setup


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264923
> 
> 
> 
> Bryston vs Mac, an epic battle if ever I have seen one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting change there thrang, the system seems to be in a constant state of flux. As long as you are enjoying things more then that's all that counts whether it's expanding a setup or downsizing a setup. Before you know it you'll be tossing the B&W's for something else and running a 2 channel only setup



I know -maybe I'll sell it all and get a pair of Bose noise canceling headphones...!


Actually, the process is slowing down at least for the foreseeable - b&w's stay as do the jl audio subs, as well as the Mac amps - well, I still may do 601's but staying in the family...


I've been doing some more room tweaking, including ceiling treatments, which also helped quite a bit... Need to get some pictures updated. But will laid up with surgery soon, so may be a bit before that happens...


Congrats on the 800's... Hmmm... maybe there is another change I want to make...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264968
> 
> 
> I know -maybe I'll sell it all and get a pair of Bose noise canceling headphones...!
> 
> 
> Actually, the process is slowing down at least for the foreseeable - b&w's stay as do the jl audio subs, as well as the Mac amps - well, I still may do 601's but staying in the family...
> 
> 
> I've been doing some more room tweaking, including ceiling treatments, which also helped quite a bit... Need to get some pictures updated. But will laid up with surgery soon, so may be a bit before that happens...
> 
> 
> Congrats on the 800's... Hmmm... maybe there is another change I want to make...



I never thought of going to headphones










I hope things go well with the surgery.


Thanks for the comment on the 800's. I'll admit I'm really nervous, they'll be delivered and setup tomorrow and I hope I can hear a difference.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23266051
> 
> 
> I never thought of going to headphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope things go well with the surgery.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the comment on the 800's. I'll admit I'm really nervous, they'll be delivered and setup tomorrow and I hope I can hear a difference.



Thanks - curious on your feedback on the 800's


What color did you get? And you have the 802d2's now, right?


----------



## Rod#S

I got rosenut to match my others, yes I have the 802D2's up front now.


----------



## scanido

Congrats on the MX-151 Thrang.


When I was in the market for a new Proc, the MX-150 (essentially same as MX-151) won out over the other offerings at the time, Good to know it still holds up well. It may not passthrough 4K but it that is a minor shortcoming considering the audio in 2-Ch and HomeTheatre is by far one of the best.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23266828
> 
> 
> Congrats on the MX-151 Thrang.
> 
> 
> When I was in the market for a new Proc, the MX-150 (essentially same as MX-151) won out over the other offerings at the time, Good to know it still holds up well. It may not passthrough 4K but it that is a minor shortcoming considering the audio in 2-Ch and HomeTheatre is by far one of the best.



I actually do not pass video through the 151 at all, not that there's any 4k to worry about at the moment - sources are connected to the Lumagen, and an hdmi audio-only connection is made from the Lumagen to the 151. As Lumagen will eventually release a 4k pocessor, I'd probably add that to the 151 or a future 161 if available and worth the upgrade...


----------



## audioguy

One of the reviewers I respect is Kal Rubinson from Stereophile. When he as was asked about Audyssey vs Room Perfect, he stated


> Quote:
> I found no significant advantages of "Room Perfect" over Audyssey or, particularly, Audyssey Pro.
> 
> 
> Kal



If Kal is correct (and I do trust his judgement/hearing) , it would seem the improvements you are hearing from the 151 over the 8801 are hardware based vs room correction based. Better steering? better DACs?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23268251
> 
> 
> One of the reviewers I respect is Kal Rubinson from Stereophile. When he as was asked about Audyssey vs Room Perfect, he stated
> 
> If Kal is correct (and I do trust his judgement/hearing) , it would seem the improvements you are hearing from the 151 over the 8801 are hardware based vs room correction based. Better steering? better DACs?



Oh, Kal didn't get a sweet offer to keep the 150!


JUST KIDDING...


As I noted, that is an area that's hard for me completely gague. It may also be room dependent - perhaps AP and RP favor different room scenarios and/or speakers...


However, there's no question in my mind that in-room low frequency response is much better with RP than the my several instances of Audyssey Pro.


My understanding is part of the complexity and cost of the 151 is that there are eight processors dedicated for RP correction - not that this in and of itself is empirical evidence it is better, but there certainly appears a real effort to perform complex analysis and correction.


So while I agree that the HW and steering of the 151 itself should not be shortchanged, I would tend to think only the effects of room correction would impact the treatment of room modes and anomalies.


----------



## Kal Rubinson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23268251
> If Kal is correct (and I do trust his judgement/hearing) , it would seem the improvements you are hearing from the 151 over the 8801 are hardware based vs room correction based. Better steering? better DACs?


Could be many things.  Remember, my comparison was based on a particular setup in a particular room and I do allow for the possibility that Room Perfect could be better (or worse) in another situation.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kal Rubinson*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23269171
> 
> 
> Could be many things.  Remember, my comparison was based on a particular setup in a particular room and I do allow for the possibility that Room Perfect could be better (or worse) in another situation.



Hi Kal - thanks for popping in. Yes, I'm thinking a bit the same, which is why my results with different Audyssey Pro processors, while there being appreciable differences, also exhibited certain familial similarities in other ways...


If you are ever interested in hearing the current setup, as I'm in northern NJ, let me know and you're welcome to stop by...


----------



## thrang

Updated photos and room config in first post.


----------



## Rod#S

Whoa! I absolutely love the ceiling, nice job.


Do you notice any appreciable difference in the rears with 803's back there compared to the 805's? Were the 805's actually higher with them setting on the cabinet than the 803's are? If so, any differences due to that which you could pick up on, perhaps more envelopment from having the drivers higher perhaps? When I ran a 7.2 setup I had towers as well in the back, shorter than the 803's but I had them up on concrete blocks for added height but always wondering how a speaker mounted higher on the wall would sound back there.


----------



## jevansoh

Very nice!


What ceiling treatments are those?


Have you measured your room? Would love to see the FR and Waterfall with and W/O Roomperfect.


Thanks,


--J


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23270307
> 
> 
> Whoa! I absolutely love the ceiling, nice job.
> 
> 
> Do you notice any appreciable difference in the rears with 803's back there compared to the 805's? Were the 805's actually higher with them setting on the cabinet than the 803's are? If so, any differences due to that which you could pick up on, perhaps more envelopment from having the drivers higher perhaps? When I ran a 7.2 setup I had towers as well in the back, shorter than the 803's but I had them up on concrete blocks for added height but always wondering how a speaker mounted higher on the wall would sound back there.



Rod, we must meet! - I was having the same thought process, and brought up the 2 inch butcher block I was using for the amps originally, and put them under the 803's in the rear - yes, the 805's were a bit higher on the table, and you can tell...so I'll be running another RP today


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jevansoh*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23270347
> 
> 
> Very nice!
> 
> 
> What ceiling treatments are those?
> 
> 
> Have you measured your room? Would love to see the FR and Waterfall with and W/O Roomperfect.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> --J



Ceiling treatments are Sonex Whisperwaves:

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/whisperwave-clouds 


I purchased drapery hangers from Ikea, custom made some mounts to the foam with glued plastic tabs, hooks, and stainless steel cable (well, my handyman did, I acted as a union official) I also purchased some LED strips and a dimmer from Amazon, and control the on/off the LEDs from an Insteon module connected to an ISY 994i controller, and configured within my Roomie Remote software


I am an idiot when it comes to doing room measurements (meaning, I don't know when I'm going something wrong or imprecise, so perhaps my results are skewed), so I am requiring fellow member addino to come over and learn it with me since he asks the same questions! (Tony?)


----------



## jevansoh

Thanks,


You two should visit my thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs[/URL ] and be sure to read AustinJerry's setup guide. We can get you up and running in no time!










Yours is a room I'd love to see measured and it would help so much in putting into perspective all your subjective comments about your wonderful gear; especially the new EQ vs Audyssey and no EQ.


--J


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jevansoh*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23270681
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> You two should visit my thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs[/URL ] and be sure to read AustinJerry's setup guide. We can get you up and running in no time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is a room I'd love to see measured and it would help so much in putting into perspective all your subjective comments about your wonderful gear; especially the new EQ vs Audyssey and no EQ.
> 
> 
> --J



The link is not valid?


The URI you submitted has disallowed characters.

There Seems to be a Problem

We're sorry, but there's been an error in our system, and we can't complete your request. Please report this error to us, using our feedback system. Thanks!


I will eventually look into this, though I'm going to be out of commission medically for a while, so taking measurements under Vicodin will certainly be approximate at best....


----------



## jevansoh

hmmm weird. I simply clicked the link icon and pasted the URL.


I just tried copying/pasting the link above in a new tab minus the fields and the link itself works.....rement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs


----------



## audioguy

I loved the look of your room before but the "clouds" really do add a new dimension.


I totally support those who suggest you learn REW or if you want to measure out of the box, get OmniMIc. The improvements I was able to make in the sound in my room once I incorporated measurement were easily larger than any single other addition/change that I made. Speakers placement; sub distance adjustments (in the room correction system as well as physically); room treatment placement, etc.


Other than a few darkened, theater specific high end rooms I have seen, yours is easily the most attractive.


Great job.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264561
> 
> 
> Why?....


I'm mostly speaking in regards Audyssey and RoomPerfect comparisons


Audyssey is very ahead in digital acoustics/room-correction development. An outgrowth of University Of Southern Calif (USC), IMSC Immersive Sound & Audio Lab department: cutting-edge research at the intersection of audio, psychoacoustics and signal processing. The project is developing algorithms for capturing and rendering sound that is indistinguishable from reality, providing an immersive experience for the listener through greater imaging and envelopment capabilities. I believe Immersive Sound was first to research 10.2 and 11.2 surround systems. The actual building structure which houses this department is incredible in-itself, constructed on acoustic shock isolators. I went on a tour back in mid-2000's, it is incredible.


I ahd never heard of RoomPerfect until I read more about the latest McIntosh home theater components (MX-151). However after doing a little research about Peter Lyngdorf I have total regard for his knowledge and experience in all aspects of audio products development. Peter founded Tact Audio ApS (now named "Lyngdorf Audio"), a digital-audio research group.
http://www.lyngdorf.com/about-us/history 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/390#post_23264561
> 
> 
> I mean, I was actually NOT expecting to experience much of a difference, and perhaps the quality of the 151 in and of itself is a larger part of the equation (I sort of noted as much in my post- perhaps a 121 with Audyssey would be a different experience than what I'm used to so far)....


yes, I can believe the performance is a summation of the combination of all the parts.


Anyway, the new room configuration and ceiling treatment looks very nice, wish I could hear it for myself.


I was also curious about the new rear surrounds, seems like they could spaced apart wider (larger rear field)?


Good luck with all the surgery stuff..............


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23271032
> 
> 
> I loved the look of your room before but the "clouds" really do add a new dimension.
> 
> 
> I totally support those who suggest you learn REW or if you want to measure out of the box, get OmniMIc. The improvements I was able to make in the sound in my room once I incorporated measurement were easily larger than any single other addition/change that I made. Speakers placement; sub distance adjustments (in the room correction system as well as physically); room treatment placement, etc.
> 
> 
> Other than a few darkened, theater specific high end rooms I have seen, yours is easily the most attractive.
> 
> 
> Great job.



Yes, I have an OmniMic v2, REW - I'm all set except the knowledge...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23271204
> 
> 
> 
> I was also curious about the new rear surrounds, seems like they could spaced apart wider (larger rear field)?
> 
> .....



Actually, based on their distance from the seating, they are falling about where Dolby and DTS recommend, though I have some room to play


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23271223
> 
> 
> Yes, I have an OmniMic v2, REW - I'm all set except the knowledge...



I bought the XTZ Pro 2 which is better? The Omnimic or the XTZ Pro


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23270443
> 
> 
> Rod, we must meet! - I was having the same thought process, and brought up the 2 inch butcher block I was using for the amps originally, and put them under the 803's in the rear - yes, the 805's were a bit higher on the table, and you can tell...so I'll be running another RP today



That would be nice but unlikely unfortunately seeing as I live in eastern Canada


Heights really have screwed things up







Before heights there was always the debate on how high surround and rear surround speakers should be. With the introduction of heightsin a way that almost forced surround speakers back to ear level because there is now a purpose designed speaker for above the listener. Granted to date we only have a single pair of heights up front but Harman's Quantum logic implements 5 and if/when Dolby Atmos makes it's way into the home I would suspect that would allow for any number of height speakers. Things are getting more complicated then they need to be


----------



## audioguy

My solution to the heights/wides issue is to never hear it. As long as I don't know what I might or might not be missing, I have nothing to lust for. Ignorance is bliss!!


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audioguy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23274249
> 
> 
> My solution to the heights/wides issue is to never hear it. As long as I don't know what I might or might not be missing, I have nothing to lust for. Ignorance is bliss!!



LOL...but very true


----------



## audioguy

I lied.


I did hear the Harmon/Lexicon QLS system at CEDIA a few years ago and was ready to buy on the spot but the product was never completed. I would have figured out how to place the 43 height speakers (or whatever it was) if I could replicate what I heard in my room. Stunning audio!!


----------



## scanido

D100 VS MX150/MX151 2CH DAC Performance


Thrang,


Were you able to compare the DAC audio quality of the D100 vs MX151? I take it the D100 is connected to the Balanced-In's of the MX151, and as I understand it the MX151 does not completely bypass as it still digitizes all inputs, so its DAC/ADC more or less still comes into play, I'm wondering if this has much of an impact to the sound quality? Have you tried connecting your Mac Mini to the HDMI/Optical input of the MX151 and comparing?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23275761
> 
> 
> D100 VS MX150/MX151 2CH DAC Performance
> 
> 
> Thrang,
> 
> 
> Were you able to compare the DAC audio quality of the D100 vs MX151? I take it the D100 is connected to the Balanced-In's of the MX151, and as I understand it the MX151 does not completely bypass as it still digitizes all inputs, so its DAC/ADC more or less still comes into play, I'm wondering if this has much of an impact to the sound quality? Have you tried connecting your Mac Mini to the HDMI/Optical input of the MX151 and comparing?



Not yet, but when get home in the next few days from the hospital, (and can move around!) I intend to try


----------



## thrang

Rod - looks like my foray into the 800's may be sooner than I thought - the 803D's, and two pairs of 805D's sold within 30 minutes on Audigon!


Should have asked for more!


----------



## Rod#S

Cograts, wow, that was incredibly fast, awesome. Are you going to try to get an audition of the 800's somewhere first or are you just going to jump in like I did?


----------



## thrang

I've heard them in the past, just not in the cards at the time - no matter, in room is always different...just trying to get all these Audiogon purchases taken care of - their system seems to have screwed up one of 805 sales - duplicating the invoice, but with $0 item value for both - of course, no answers from from for help...


----------



## Rod#S

Gotcha.


That sucks about the Audiogon system, hopefully it will get straightened out quickly.


The only placement concern I had with the 800's was the base once I seen it in the flesh when we pulled the shroud off the speaker. It's huge but this should be a non issue for you in your room because I see you appear to have enough free space behind, and to both sides of the 802's to accommodate the 800's base.


----------



## thrang

What's the width and depth of the base?


----------



## Rod#S

Precisely 17.72" x 25.39" according to the CAD drawing I have


----------



## thrang

Thanks should be no problem but I'll check


How many guys delivery and unboxed?


----------



## Rod#S

I have been thinking more about what I'm hearing with the bass performance of the 800's vs. the 802's. I have posted that I had been left scratching my head about the specs because they are only 2Hz lower in the 800's vs the 802's but yet I feel like I'm hearing and feeling so much more low end from the 800's. Seeing as it's very, very unlikely the published specs are wrong







what I believe I'm experiencing with the 800's is a speaker that isn't really going appreciably lower in reality but a speaker that simply delivers the same frequency range as the 802's but with unmistakeably more authority and power than the 802's can accomplish. The 802's just come across timid in comparison when you step back and realize they are basically covering the exact same frequency range. So these differences it would seem are a direct result of the dual 10" drivers and a larger cabinet.


----------



## thrang

Yeah, there's a lot more driver and cabinet there, so perhaps real-world listening imparts a greater difference than raw test tones.


What are you driving the 800's with? I'm putting an MC 302 up for two 601's...


----------



## Rod#S

Two guys plus myself but the actual lifting was done by the movers. As with the 802's we didn't follow the unpacking instructions on the box to the letter. The guys and even myself were more comfortable with having the speaker lifted up and off of the pallet bottom rather than laying the speaker over on it's side to slide the pallet bottom off then standing it back up. Obviously they were strong enough to do the lift if not then laying the speaker on it's side per the instructions would have been the only way of getting the pallet bottom removed. If going the lift approach just be warned that there is very little room for your fingers under the plinth so there is a potential finger crush factor there







You could lift the speaker by grasping the bottom of the bass cabinet rather than the bottom of the plinth I guess. Also now knowing how heavy these things are if you are going to lay them on their side on hardwood make sure that there is ample padding around the plinth because that could make a serious dent if it's edge catches the flooring while standing the speaker back up.


----------



## Rod#S

I'm using Bryston 4B-SST's.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/420#post_23306623
> 
> 
> Two guys plus myself but the actual lifting was done by the movers. As with the 802's we didn't follow the unpacking instructions on the box to the letter. The guys and even myself were more comfortable with having the speaker lifted up and off of the pallet bottom rather than laying the speaker over on it's side to slide the pallet bottom off then standing it back up. Obviously they were strong enough to do the lift if not then laying the speaker on it's side per the instructions would have been the only way of getting the pallet bottom removed. If going the lift approach just be warned that there is very little room for your fingers under the plinth so there is a potential finger crush factor there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could lift the speaker by grasping the bottom of the bass cabinet rather than the bottom of the plinth I guess. Also now knowing how heavy these things are if you are going to lay them on their side on hardwood make sure that there is ample padding around the plinth because that could make a serious dent if it's edge catches the flooring while standing the speaker back up.



Yes, with my back surgery I'lll be a tit on a bull for this. so I'll leave it up to my dealer to figure it out....


Box slides all the way up to remove? I have to be careful where I do this with my new ceiling treatments...


----------



## Rod#S

Actually the cardboard simply peels away so it's not like a typical speaker box where it must be lifted up and over the top of the speaker so no need to worry about your ceiling. If you remember how your 802's were boxed it's basically the same idea. You first remove the top cap then release the cardboard surrounding the speaker, it is just interleaved with the pallet base to help hold it in place vertically. So the releasing of this cardboard wrapping is either done vertically like was done with mine or first by lying the speaker on it's side. If on it's side then the base pallet is simply popped off then the speaker is set up right again where the styrofoam piece over the head unit is removed then the 4 corner pieces are removed then the 2 interlocking styrofoam pieces around the bottom are removed. I think that's the order how things are removed. Then it's a matter of removing the soft blanket material enclosing the speaker, removing the bass grilles to take off their shipping material, installing the mid range grilles from the accessory boxes and removing the protective covering from the back of the high frequency nautilus tube. After that you remove the locking screw from the end of the mid range nautilus tube and of course taking the plastic plugs out of the speaker terminals where banana's attach.


How's the back? I hope the surgery went well.


----------



## thrang

I'd completely forgotten how the 802 boxes came apart - the 803's I had to slide up and off I believe....


Surgery went well - just a lot of basic mobility and walking now, no rehab for a bit...I'm getting around fairly well without a cane or walker - just having bouts of chills and sweats - they did blood work to check for infection, and it came up clean - maybe reaction to the pain killers, or just residual body reaction to the trauma of the surgery.


----------



## Rod#S

Glad to hear things went well with the surgery and the blood work is good. It'll probably just take some time to get back into the swing of things, the body deals with surgery in so many different ways for different people.


----------



## thrang

They're coming...hopefully Thursday

 

 


Was able to sell of my 2 pairs of 805's, one pair of 803's, and an MC302 very quickly to fund this...


----------



## adidino

You should retitle the thread "Pig Heaven.".


----------



## thrang

Yeah like you subsist on peanut butter and jelly Mr Plats!


----------



## adidino

yeah yeah


----------



## Nuz1

Wow, thats going to be something! Did you get three 601s for the front? Or a pair for the 800s?


----------



## Rod#S

Very nice.


Amazingly quick sell for the McIntosh as well. With so much Mac stuff on Audiogon I figured it would take longer to sell the amp.


I look forward to your impressions, both comparisons for the 800's to the 802's and the extra 3db in power by going with 601's


Then after that I await the selling of all Mac gear and getting all Bryston


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23313964
> 
> 
> Very nice.
> 
> 
> Amazingly quick sell for the McIntosh as well. With so much Mac stuff on Audiogon I figured it would take longer to sell the amp.
> 
> 
> I look forward to your impressions, both comparisons for the 800's to the 802's and the extra 3db in power by going with 601's
> 
> 
> Then after that I await the selling of all Mac gear and getting all Bryston



Even with help, reconfiguring your HT 10 days after back surgery is not so bright....


Anyway, NO BRYSTON! Huge respect for them, but that's addino's home turf in my neighborhood.


----------



## Rod#S

So will you have a chance to listen to the 800's with your 302 or 303 before hooking them up to the 601's or is that a pairing that is never going to happen just do to the timing of everything arriving? It would be nice to get your impression of the difference that doubling of the power makes. Out of curiosity have you ever tried bi-amping your 802's just to see if you can hear any differences?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23316906
> 
> 
> So will you have a chance to listen to the 800's with your 302 or 303 before hooking them up to the 601's or is that a pairing that is never going to happen just do to the timing of everything arriving? It would be nice to get your impression of the difference that doubling of the power makes. Out of curiosity have you ever tried bi-amping your 802's just to see if you can hear any differences?



I don't think that will happen, all likely comes in together


No have not bi-amped in some time...


I think Thursday is the day at this stage....


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23312682
> 
> 
> They're coming...hopefully Thursday. Was able to sell of my 2 pairs of 805's, one pair of 803's, and an MC302 very quickly to fund this...


so you ultimately switching to 7.1? or 5.1?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23317357
> 
> 
> so you ultimately switching to 7.1? or 5.1?



7.2


800D fronts

802D Surrounds

803D Rears

HTM2D Center

2 - JL Audio F113 Fathoms


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23317005
> 
> 
> I don't think that will happen, all likely comes in together
> 
> 
> No have not bi-amped in some time...
> 
> 
> I think Thursday is the day at this stage....



Thanks


Just one day to go


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23318181
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Just one day to go



Actually....


----------



## Rod#S

Nice!


Be sure to give us some pics of the unboxing. I got to excited when mine arrived and didn't take anywhere near as many as I had intended


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23318369
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> Be sure to give us some pics of the unboxing. I got to excited when mine arrived and didn't take anywhere near as many as I had intended



I will try but I suspect there will be so much mayhem I may forget too...!


----------



## thrang

Looks like Friday late morning now....cant get the manpower till then....


----------



## Rod#S

Oh well, at least you will have them for the weekend







and they did arrive very quickly to boot.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23320140
> 
> 
> Oh well, at least you will have them for the weekend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they did arrive very quickly to boot.



I know, but I keep reading your comments about your experiences and I'm convinced you're just rubbing it in!


----------



## Rod#S

lol...I'll take full credit for your urge to upgrade IF you hear a difference over your 802's and that the difference is indeed good. I take no responsibility if you think they sound exactly or incredibly close to your 802's


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23322023
> 
> 
> lol...I'll take full credit for your urge to upgrade IF you hear a difference over your 802's and that the difference is indeed good. I take no responsibility if you think they sound exactly or incredibly close to your 802's



You must be in politics...


----------



## BVLDARI

I'd love to hear your opinion between the 303 and 601s


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23322144
> 
> 
> I'd love to hear your opinion between the 303 and 601s



Well, the most I can do is compare the 802/303 vs the 800/601 as the swap will be simultaneous...


----------



## BVLDARI

I just noticed that you have a D100 and a mac mini which is something I am considering. How would you compare the D100 to the Marantz or I am guessing that the Marantz did not have asynchronous USB inputs? Also, how is the D100 vs. the MX151. Finally, if you had to do it again, would you go this route or something different.


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23322023
> 
> 
> lol...I'll take full credit for your urge to upgrade IF you hear a difference over your 802's and that the difference is indeed good. I take no responsibility if you think they sound exactly or incredibly close to your 802's



The MC601's would make quite the leap from the MC302/MC303 in my opinion so this change alone will be quite the difference.


I noticed a positive difference when going from MC205 -> MC452 -> and finally MC601. The added headroom makes all the difference. I could just raise the volume much more on each subsequent upgrade without hearing the speaker or my ears strain!


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23322170
> 
> 
> Well, the most I can do is compare the 802/303 vs the 800/601 as the swap will be simultaneous...



The amp upgrade would make almost as much of the difference as this speaker change. When I got the MC601's my 802Di's started to open up fully. Low volume was even more pronounced and detailed, I dont have to raise volume to hear the same details.


The 800Di's will soak up every little bit of power from those MC601s for sure. Should be a decent match.


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/450#post_23322325
> 
> 
> I just noticed that you have a D100 and a mac mini which is something I am considering. How would you compare the D100 to the Marantz or I am guessing that the Marantz did not have asynchronous USB inputs? Also, how is the D100 vs. the MX151. Finally, if you had to do it again, would you go this route or something different.



This is the comparison I'm waiting for as well!


Wonder how the D100 DACS stack up to MX151????


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23322437
> 
> 
> This is the comparison I'm waiting for as well!
> 
> 
> Wonder how the D100 DACS stack up to MX151????



I did some limited testing of the d100>151 vs macmini optical >151, and early impressions were I preferred the d100 - will do some more testing once the 800's and 601's are in place and things are settled....


D100 over optical in to marantz any day...


----------



## BVLDARI

I feel like I gave you a crap load of tasks to do – compare this to that, the other to the first blah blah LOL


Thanks for playing along. But if the D100 gets your positive vote, I may go that route with the mac mini and keep my Onkyo for movies etc.


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23322465
> 
> 
> I did some limited testing of the d100>151 vs macmini optical >151, and early impressions were I preferred the d100 - will do some more testing once the 800's and 601's are in place and things are settled....
> 
> 
> D100 over optical in to marantz any day...



I had a feeling it would be skewed towards the D100 as it is a dedicated DAC in the first place. Thanks for running the comparison.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23322607
> 
> 
> I feel like I gave you a crap load of tasks to do – compare this to that, the other to the first blah blah LOL
> 
> 
> Thanks for playing along. But if the D100 gets your positive vote, I may go that route with the mac mini and keep my Onkyo for movies etc.



No worries, I don't mind if I have the time, or in this case, the full mobility!


But the D100 is a great piece, no question


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23322928
> 
> 
> I had a feeling it would be skewed towards the D100 as it is a dedicated DAC in the first place. Thanks for running the comparison.



I hope to do more this weekend; if so, I'll post more feedback


----------



## thrang

Actually was able to get the 601's today, so only the 800's remain for tomorrow's delivery...I'm glad because things took longer than usual to rewire especially with my back, so tomorrow's speaker swap should be relatively quick.


Here's a down and dirty shot of the new amps in place...


----------



## mookie b

800s??! Dang Thrang. Leave your thread for a week and come back and all hell has broke loose. Can't wait to hear what you think. I heard 800s at a Magnolia here powered by. 601s and they were scary good.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325427
> 
> 
> 800s??! Dang Thrang. Leave your thread for a week and come back and all hell has broke loose. Can't wait to hear what you think. I heard 800s at a Magnolia here powered by. 601s and they were scary good.



I think this is it for a while. Otherwise Tony will come over and slap me aside the head a few times...


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325931
> 
> 
> I think this is it for a while. Otherwise Tony will come over and slap me aside the head a few times...



Brass knuckles this time...


----------



## Rod#S

Cool, the 601's arrived. So this is good, seeing as you have a few hours with them on speakers you are familiar with. So....







what differences are you hearing with the 802's, was the swap immediately noticeable?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325966
> 
> 
> Cool, the 601's arrived. So this is good, seeing as you have a few hours with them on speakers you are familiar with. So....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what differences are you hearing with the 802's, was the swap immediately noticeable?



Honestly, I had a setback day recovery-wise (pushed too hard I think), so by the time I was done and had dinner, I watched the Rangers lose to the Bruins and was laying on the floor in a fair amount of pain....so I was comparing the gaps in my acoustical ceiling tiles, that's it....


Maybe this AM for a short bit...


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325931
> 
> 
> I think this is it for a while. Otherwise Tony will come over and slap me aside the head a few times...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325985
> 
> 
> Honestly, I had a setback day recovery-wise (pushed too hard I think), so by the time I was done and had dinner, I watched the Rangers lose to the Bruins and was laying on the floor in a fair amount of pain....so I was comparing the gaps in my acoustical ceiling tiles, that's it....
> 
> 
> Maybe this AM for a short bit...



Looking real sharp! P


Enjoy the new toys.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325965
> 
> 
> Brass knuckles this time...



Remember, concussed individuals can be even MORE irrational...


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325985
> 
> 
> Honestly, I had a setback day recovery-wise (pushed too hard I think), so by the time I was done and had dinner, I watched the Rangers lose to the Bruins and was laying on the floor in a fair amount of pain....so I was comparing the gaps in my acoustical ceiling tiles, that's it....
> 
> 
> Maybe this AM for a short bit...



I hope you are feeling better this morning.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23326425
> 
> 
> I hope you are feeling better this morning.



Somewhat - received some medication....


----------



## BVLDARI

That medication would clear all sorts of aches for me… I just hope that you will get some help placing the medication in the correct places otherwise you will be in trouble…


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23326592
> 
> 
> That medication would clear all sorts of aches for me… I just hope that you will get some help placing the medication in the correct places otherwise you will be in trouble…



Breaking in and listening now....but have not run Room Perfect yet


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23326522
> 
> 
> Somewhat - received some medication....



Excellent!


----------



## Rod#S

So....







and the initial verdict? Thumbs up, thumbs down, or indifference


----------



## BrolicBeast

But wait....are those 802's doing surround duty in the above picture? Whoa....that's severe under-utilization. I mean, sure--they are yours to use as you see fit.....but as surrounds??? Also, congrats on the 800's....I come to this thread to remind myself of what's possible if I keep working hard: 4K projectors and enough McIntosh amplification to run Abbey Road. lol. Now, about Room Perfect. Does your setup measure better with Room Perfect than it did with Audyssey XT32? I believe good sound is more than just measurements, but I am curious as to how much better it is than Audyssey technically. It's amazing that the 151 model offers an auto-eq suite like RP, while the 121 offers basic Audyssey (not even xt32). Keep up the killer upgrades!


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325343
> 
> 
> Actually was able to get the 601's today, so only the 800's remain for tomorrow's delivery...I'm glad because things took longer than usual to rewire especially with my back, so tomorrow's speaker swap should be relatively quick.
> 
> 
> Here's a down and dirty shot of the new amps in place...



Thrang that looks awesome.


----------



## Franin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23326522
> 
> 
> Somewhat - received some medication....



Best medication to have


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23328583
> 
> 
> So....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the initial verdict? Thumbs up, thumbs down, or indifference



I like to break in for a day or two before really digging in, and fiddle with placement - but very preliminarily they are the sweetest things I've ever heard!


More over the weekend...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23328773
> 
> 
> But wait....are those 802's doing surround duty in the above picture? Whoa....that's severe under-utilization. I mean, sure--they are yours to use as you see fit.....but as surrounds??? Also, congrats on the 800's....I come to this thread to remind myself of what's possible if I keep working hard: 4K projectors and enough McIntosh amplification to run Abbey Road. lol. Now, about Room Perfect. Does your setup measure better with Room Perfect than it did with Audyssey XT32? I believe good sound is more than just measurements, but I am curious as to how much better it is than Audyssey technically. It's amazing that the 151 model offers an auto-eq suite like RP, while the 121 offers basic Audyssey (not even xt32). Keep up the killer upgrades!



Perhaps, but with more and more content discretely and aggressively mixed for surrounds, I wanted to do it - I'm crossing them at 40.


While I own Omnimic, iI just never got my head around measurements with that or REW..so it's just my subjective comparison - but Room Perfect is performing so much better for me than Audyssey pro its the reason I kept the 151 after eval - that and its overall sonics. Bass is particularly better, but the overall sound is very open and unfettered.


I think RP is very expensive to license


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Franin*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23328893
> 
> 
> Best medication to have



Yes, but refills are very expensive...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23328955
> 
> 
> I like to break in for a day or two before really digging in, and fiddle with placement - but very preliminarily they are the sweetest things I've ever heard!
> 
> 
> More over the weekend...



Great to hear that they did not disappoint, enjoy


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23325343
> 
> 
> things took longer than usual to rewire especially with my back


go easy


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23328955
> 
> 
> I like to break in for a day or two before really digging in, and fiddle with placement - but very preliminarily *they are the sweetest things I've ever heard*!
> 
> 
> More over the weekend...



You guys are making me question whether my hearing is off or if dealer's room _is_ bad enough where I could not appreciate the difference between the 802 and the 800. I really look forward to your more detailed assessment


----------



## Rod#S

The thing when comparing the 802's to the 800's I feel would be the time spent and that the speakers were setup in the same room in either a swap in swap out test in order to use the same equipment or to use a switch to go between speakers. I think the impression one would get if only having limited time and not being able to do a swap would tend to result in the differences being missed or heard as subtle just because the speakers do share so many acoustical attributes in common.


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480#post_23330730
> 
> 
> The thing when comparing the 802's to the 800's I feel would be the time spent and that the speakers were setup in the same room in either a swap in swap out test in order to use the same equipment or to use a switch to go between speakers. I think the impression one would get if only having limited time and not being able to do a swap would tend to result in the differences being missed or heard as subtle just because the speakers do share so many acoustical attributes in common.



That's the thing though, I've literally listened to them next to each other with the same exact equipment with two guys swapping the speaker leads. But like I said, the dealer’s room is not great – it’s very dead. The 800s made the 600W Classe mono blocks clip at less than 100 db in that very same room. Also, admittedly, I spent very little time evaluating one vs. the other. And like I said, you guys make me want to go back and recheck things.


----------



## Rod#S

Something seems wrong there with the dealer's setup because I power my 800's with Bryston 4B-SST's which are 330 watts, they also powered my 802's and my Paradigm 100's before that and I have never seen them clip even at very loud levels. With 600 watts on tap the Classe amps should not have been clipping. If wse happens to pop in here hopefully he can comment because he actually uses the Classe 600 watt monos and has never reported seeing them clip when driving his 800's.


I would either go back to the dealers for another evaluation and if they still clip see if there is another dealer where you can demo both speakers or at the very least have the dealer replace the amps, pre-amp, etc. until the clipping disappears because there is something funky going on there.


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23330884
> 
> 
> Something seems wrong there with the dealer's setup because I power my 800's with Bryston 4B-SST's which are 330 watts, they also powered my 802's and my Paradigm 100's before that and I have never seen them clip even at very loud levels. With 600 watts on tap the Classe amps should not have been clipping. If wse happens to pop in here hopefully he can comment because he actually uses the Classe 600 watt monos and has never reported seeing them clip when driving his 800's.
> 
> 
> I would either go back to the dealers for another evaluation and if they still clip see if there is another dealer where you can demo both speakers or at the very least have the dealer replace the amps, pre-amp, etc. until the clipping disappears because there is something funky going on there.




Actually, in their case I do understand why it did that and I don’t believe there is anything wrong with their equipment - it’s all the room. There are several issues: 1. It’s very big; 2. it’s very well treated and is relatively “dead”; 3. It’s on a concrete slab; 4. It has a drop ceiling made of tiles at probably 10ish feet but the roof of the building is substantially higher. Not only that but there is no real room ceiling just the drop tiles. So the room is really part of a much larger building above. In an essence, when you drive the speakers, the bass is trying to fill an enormous space. Lats time I talked to the dealer, they were planning on building a “real” drywall ceiling above the room to make it a more “compact” space. So when you take all of this into account, you can see how you can easily overdrive any spaker/amp.


So on to more important things: Thrang, how is your back and your system?


----------



## thrang

Sorry it's taken a bit longer to post, but in the course of listening, I discovered a couple of bugs in my MX 151 that diverted my attention (one is that despite crossing my 800's at 31 hz, my subs were still playing/duplicating bass energy well above that- need to follow with McIntosh tomorrow)


So bypassing that issue for the time being, the 800's are superlative speakers for both music and movies - I listened to several titles that I use repeatedly when comparing hardware, including:


Brian Eno - Drums Between the Bells

Bobby Mcferrin - Beyond Words

Daniel Lanois - Shine

World Drummers Ensemble - A Coat of Many Colors

Chick Corea & John McLaughlin - Five Peace Band Live

Bang on a Can All Stars - Big Beautiful Dark and Scary

Penguin Cafe Orchestra - Broadcasting From Home


Among other titles...


Compared to the 802's, everything plays wider,higher, and deeper, and with superb low end and midrange quickness. While there are no driver difference in the mids and highs, perhaps the foundation the low end provides creates the subtle change in the overall presentation. Or perhaps there are crossover differences?


Now how different? Well,I'm not going to claim there is an enormous variation - we are all aware the higher we go, the more subtle improvements may be. In this case,you definitely know you are listening to a different, larger speaker with more presence. Really wonderful.


Now the added benefit is having 802's as surrounds - marked improvement. Watched Cloud Atlas and the opening to Kung Fu Panda and it was sumptuously engaging. Also listened to some multichannel blu ray content, including Patricia Barber: Modern Cool and Elton John: Elton 60...all great. More movies and some SACDs in the next day or two...


I'm sure the 601's don't hurt either...


Otherwise, recovery is going well, thanks for asking. Now need to work with McIntosh on some of these anomalies...the other issue is I cannot apply post processing to multichannel PCM - sound gets thin, lose most of the center channel...very odd...


----------



## Spurrier Sucks

Mac heaven!


----------



## Rod#S

Nice review, I'm glad you are really enjoying them.


----------



## WestCoastD

Thanks for update!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23334869
> 
> 
> crossing my 800's at 31 hz,...


are you doing this (setting x-over = 31hz) to assess full range of 800D's? Do you plan to run full-range permanently? Or vary x-over for various media (ie. 80hz for movies, 31hz for music, etc.,...)?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23334869
> 
> 
> Chick Corea & John McLaughlin - Five Peace Band Live
> 
> ...


great music on this disc, some of the best I've seen "live" (in-person). I really like Kenny Garrett's tenor sax solo's, as well as John McLaughlin's guitar lines. Beautiful (long) compositions.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23336706
> 
> 
> Thanks for update!
> 
> are you doing this (setting x-over = 31hz) to assess full range of 800D's? Do you plan to run full-range permanently? Or vary x-over for various media (ie. 80hz for movies, 31hz for music, etc.,...)?
> 
> great music on this disc, some of the best I've seen "live" (in-person). I really like Kenny Garrett's tenor sax solo's, as well as John McLaughlin's guitar lines. Beautiful (long) compositions.



Despite all the flexibility of the 151, I will have to find a compromise crossover for all listening, as there is no way to have multiple settings for two channel and multichannel...I got some great help from a user on AudioAfficiando and set my subs up as part of a bi-amp config with the mains (its really dedicated left/right subs) and currently am crossed at 50 and evaluating. The lowest I can cross is 40. One might have hoped McIntosh picked up a bit from D&M after all those years before splitting away, as several denon and marantz products did have separate two channel settings.


Yes, that's a great disc, really well recorded, great kick drum on many cuts too, so good to evaluate lower frequency performance.


----------



## audiofan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/480_40#post_23336856
> 
> 
> Despite all the flexibility of the 151, I will have to find a compromise crossover for all listening, as there is no way to have multiple settings for two channel and multichannel...I got some great help from a user on AudioAfficiando and set my subs up as part of a bi-amp config with the mains (its really dedicated left/right subs) and currently am crossed at 50 and evaluating. The lowest I can cross is 40. One might have hoped McIntosh picked up a bit from D&M after all those years before splitting away, as several denon and marantz products did have separate two channel settings.
> 
> 
> Yes, that's a great disc, really well recorded, great kick drum on many cuts too, so good to evaluate lower frequency performance.



Wow man! do they plan a fix for this? perhaps in the future!


----------



## Roger Dressler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23336856
> 
> 
> Despite all the flexibility of the 151, I will have to find a compromise crossover for all listening, as there is no way to have multiple settings for two channel and multichannel...


Just curious. If the LFE is only directed to the subs, thus avoiding the potential for too much bass in the main L/R, what would be the benefit of using different crossover settings for movies and music?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiofan1*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23336997
> 
> 
> Wow man! do they plan a fix for this? perhaps in the future!



In terms of the bass doubling and inability to apply post processing to multi channel PCM, I am in communication with McIntosh to see what they say. Perhaps there is some user error here, but I suspect some bug that would deserve a fix.


In terms of a separate two channel setting, I doubt that would happen.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Dressler*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23337308
> 
> 
> Just curious. If the LFE is only directed to the subs, thus avoiding the potential for too much bass in the main L/R, what would be the benefit of using different crossover settings for movies and music?



Hi Roger


Ultimately, there may not be a benefit, but I would have liked to try the 800's straight up for two channel music - but one cannot switch speaker configs without room perfect being wiped out, nor can one even save room perfect settings to recall.


I don't recall, but doesn't the Classe offer multiple config options? Of course, there's no Room Perfect data to manage...


----------



## Roger Dressler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23337535
> 
> 
> I don't recall, but doesn't the Classe offer multiple config options? Of course, there's no Room Perfect data to manage...


Yes, it can retain 6 different Configs, comprising crossover settings, delays, trims. I use several of them for trims and delays (depending on lone or group use), but I have never felt like changing the crossovers.


I suppose if RoomPerfect is doing its thing when the crossover is active, it would not want to work when the crossover is changed. But even Audyssey lets you do that without burning a bridge.


So the MX151 does not have a means, even a clumsy one like the SSP, to offload the EQ settings and reload them later? Is the firmware utility limited to strictly FW updating?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Dressler*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23337885
> 
> 
> Yes, it can retain 6 different Configs, comprising crossover settings, delays, trims. I use several of them for trims and delays (depending on lone or group use), but I have never felt like changing the crossovers.
> 
> 
> I suppose if RoomPerfect is doing its thing when the crossover is active, it would not want to work when the crossover is changed. But even Audyssey lets you do that without burning a bridge.
> 
> 
> So the MX151 does not have a means, even a clumsy one like the SSP, to offload the EQ settings and reload them later? Is the firmware utility limited to strictly FW updating?



Well, there is a backup option,where it backs up all your input configs, speakers settings, and other options - EXCEPT it does not back up theRoom.Perfect calibration data. This is a flaw obviously, especially if you need to do a factory reset for some other reasons - then you'd have to do another Room Perfect calibration.


Fabulous processor but it has its quirks...


Unless there's some licensing issue with Lyngdorf where they don't want the results of their secret sauce saved outside the hardware, but that's a stretch...


----------



## leo2498

Hi Thrang I wondering how is look this beasts in your room, you could post some pics of them?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23338196
> 
> 
> Hi Thrang I wondering how is look this beasts in your room, you could post some pics of them?



Yes, I will be updating first post photos in the next day or two...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23338196
> 
> 
> Hi Thrang I wondering how is look this beasts in your room, you could post some pics of them?



By the way, they don't look that much bigger than the 802's for some reason - I think there's more depth, but that's really not seen unless you take a side view - same height, and of course, a bit wider...


----------



## leo2498




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23338462
> 
> 
> By the way, they don't look that much bigger than the 802's for some reason - I think there's more depth, but that's really not seen unless you take a side view - same height, and of course, a bit wider...


yes I guess it is because your room, in a big room like yours the 800 easily will disappear but in a mid rooms size I guess they will look massive and gorgeous, something like the ROD's room if you had the opportunity to see it. anyway they are awesome I would like have them some day(really only dreaming about it) in my tiny room.










Ex: in my room will be something like this


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23339609
> 
> 
> yes I guess it is because your room, in a big room like yours the 800 easily will disappear but in a mid rooms size I guess they will look massive, something like the ROD's room if you had the opportunity to see it. anyway they are awesome I would like have them some day(really only dreaming about it) in my tiny room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ex: in my room will be something like this


''


That picture is hilarious. For a lot of reasons.


----------



## BVLDARI

  


whatever happend to this guy?


----------



## leo2498




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23342222
> 
> 
> 
> whatever happend to this guy?



Well I think that the heart wants what the heart wants, if I could have the money for them I'm sure I will do the same thing.


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23342347
> 
> 
> Well I think that the heart wants what the heart wants, if I could have the money for them I'm sure I will do the same thing.



True that.


But I think he was selling them/sold them. I wonder what he ended up doing after that.... But this is getting a bit off topic...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23342378
> 
> 
> True that.
> 
> 
> But I think he was selling them/sold them. I wonder what he ended up doing after that.... But this is getting a bit off topic...



What is the back story behind this? You guys seem to know...


Anyway, FINALLY got the dual subwoofer configuration sorted out with McIntosh and a fellow AA member, and the sound is super dialed in right now. Hope to take some pictures of the updated setup tomorrow


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23342378
> 
> 
> True that.
> 
> 
> But I think he was selling them/sold them. I wonder what he ended up doing after that.... But this is getting a bit off topic...



Yeah he did sell them. I believe he went with Paradigm Signatures and then after that was looking into the Focal Utopia line I think. I think I know this







because he may have been posting on both the Paradigm and Focal threads which I keep an eye on.


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23342435
> 
> 
> What is the back story behind this? You guys seem to know...
> 
> 
> Anyway, FINALLY got the dual subwoofer configuration sorted out with McIntosh and a fellow AA member, and the sound is super dialed in right now. Hope to take some pictures of the updated setup tomorrow



So what did you end up going with and why? I always thought the speaker config of the MX150/MX151 was confusing.


Are you running the subs into the AUX and having the 800's setup as XXL?? If this is the case will the .1 channel in 5.1/7.1 still redirect to this speaker arrangement when the center/rears are setup with a xover of 80hz for example?


thanks


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23343942
> 
> 
> So what did you end up going with and why? I always thought the speaker config of the MX150/MX151 was confusing.
> 
> 
> Are you running the subs into the AUX and having the 800's setup as XXL?? If this is the case will the .1 channel in 5.1/7.1 still redirect to this speaker arrangement when the center/rears are setup with a xover of 80hz for example?
> 
> 
> thanks



Yes, mains are set up as XXL, with the AUX subs 1/2 crossing at 50hz. This means all bass energy and .1 LFE get directed to the mains, but the cross in the AUX subs is taking a,, bass energy from 50 down ( well, its not a brick wall, so it starts rolling off higher than that. I can experiment higher of lower, but right now its sounding quite nice...


Yes, the 151 bass management is much more complicated than it needs to be. I can also add a dedicated sub to the SUB out for .1 if I wish, but with the curre t cross, I don't see the need at the moment...


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23343976
> 
> 
> Yes, mains are set up as XXL, with the AUX subs 1/2 crossing at 50hz. This means all bass energy and .1 LFE get directed to the mains, but the cross in the AUX subs is taking a,, bass energy from 50 down ( well, its not a brick wall, so it starts rolling off higher than that. I can experiment higher of lower, but right now its sounding quite nice...
> 
> 
> Yes, the 151 bass management is much more complicated than it needs to be. I can also add a dedicated sub to the SUB out for .1 if I wish, but with the curre t cross, I don't see the need at the moment...



Thanks for the quick response. Wondering if you also got confirmation on how the other channels would function in this AUX/XXL arrangement.


Currently I have my MX150 setup the conventional way (Mains 50Hz, Center 63Hz and all other rear channels including Sub at 80hz). I'm using a Balanced splitter on my two F113's from the Subout so it would be interesting to hear how my setup performs with the AUX inputs utilized instead. I ran it this way because the Subout channel would output all the channels' frequencies below their respective xover point, including the .1 sub channel. So in my conventional config, the main channels frequencies below 50hz would be sent to the sub, center channel below 63Hz sent to sub, rears 80hz etc, lastly .1 channel sent to sub entirely.


When utilizing the AUX channels and mains as XXL at say 50Hz xover, do you know if the other channels will function similarly to the setup mentioned above? For example, If the rear channels are setup as 80hz xover in this new config, will the 50hz-80hz frequencies be sent to the AUX (subs) or to the mains/AUX pairing? In the case of the latter, the mains would actually reproduce the 50-80hz range for the rear channels.


In any case, lots of experimentation is required as the documentation from Mcinstosh is lacking in this. Having to re-run Room Perfect is a definite pain!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23344100
> 
> 
> Thanks for the quick response. Wondering if you also got confirmation on how the other channels would function in this AUX/XXL arrangement.
> 
> 
> Currently I have my MX150 setup the conventional way (Mains 50Hz, Center 63Hz and all other rear channels including Sub at 80hz). I'm using a Balanced splitter on my two F113's from the Subout so it would be interesting to hear how my setup performs with the AUX inputs utilized instead. I ran it this way because the Subout channel would output all the channels' frequencies below their respective xover point, including the .1 sub channel. So in my conventional config, the main channels frequencies below 50hz would be sent to the sub, center channel below 63Hz sent to sub, rears 80hz etc, lastly .1 channel sent to sub entirely.
> 
> 
> When utilizing the AUX channels and mains as XXL at say 50Hz xover, do you know if the other channels will function similarly to the setup mentioned above? For example, If the rear channels are setup as 80hz xover in this new config, will the 50hz-80hz frequencies be sent to the AUX (subs) or to the mains/AUX pairing? In the case of the latter, the mains would actually reproduce the 50-80hz range for the rear channels.
> 
> 
> In any case, lots of experimentation is required as the documentation from Mcinstosh is lacking in this. Having to re-run Room Perfect is a definite pain!



The way I understand it is when setting speakers as xxl, they receive all crossed bass energy from other speakers plus .1 LFE. However, when using the AUX1/2 subs, all the xxl main's bass energy below the cross over point set in the AUX 1/2 settings is routed to the sub, so you are really not stressing your main if you have the cross's set appropriately. And again, it's a sloped cross, not a brick wall cross


The net effect is the subs are playing the bass energy and LFE at the crossover point (in my case, 50 hz, starting at 62hz I believe with the slope. It is recommended that the subs be close to the associated mains for optimal performance.


The tricky thing is you have to get the sub levels "correct", and its basically trial and error. But from what I can see, the 151 is not applying any level offsets to the aux subs, so if they are too low, for example, Room Perfect may cut the speakers too much to "match" the levels of the subs - in my case I was getting cuts of -14.5 db for my rears, which was too much - the range should be plus or minibus 12 db for optimal performance according to McIntosh. So I raised each sub even using the fathom gain control and a sound meter ( in my case about 3 or 4 db higher than the mains), ran room perfect again (minimum to get to 90%), saved the filterrs, and checked the offsets (you want to check the Bypass offset levels). If all the levels are less than + or - 12 db, you are good, and can add more room and focus positions.


For my fathoms, this put the gain controls around 9:30 or 10 o'clock...


To check the levels, I ran a sub test tone from spears and munsil 2nd edition, for the the left channel and then the right. Raise the master volume so you get a reasonable reading of the left main only (turn off the sub), then turn off the left main and turn on the left aux sub and measure. Initially, I tried making them equal, then the sub 3 db lower, and once I realized the the logic of what was happening, I went the other way and raised the subs 3 or 4 db above the mains and have not more the -9 db cuts.


So once the subs are in range, then room perfect and trim or pad the offsets for the speakers within the safe range...


Hope this helps - McIntosh doesn't make it easy in this regard...


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23334869
> 
> 
> 
> Now the added benefit is having 802's as surrounds - marked improvement. Watched Cloud Atlas and the opening to Kung Fu Panda and it was sumptuously engaging. Also listened to some multichannel blu ray content, including Patricia Barber: Modern Cool and Elton John: Elton 60...all great. More movies and some SACDs in the next day or two...



This was very interesting to hear and you are basically the ideal candidate for being in a position to compare the difference having 802's in the surround position makes when compared to 803's, their next closest speaker in the lineup and with you having owned 2 pairs and run them for quite a while you are very familiar with their performance in the surround position. I only had my Studio 100's as comparison so it wasn't a fair comparison I guess as the 803's in their own right would certainly out perform the 100's. So it makes me very happy reading that you can notice a difference between 803's and 802's even in the proverbial often looked down upon by the masses surround position










I just can't stop listening to my 800's. For the past week or so now I've basically gotten an album in each night. They are just so inviting and engaging always seeming to give a live performance in the room feeling.


The one downside is my Denon started acting up and refuses to play all but 2 of my almost 30 DVD-A's and only about a 70/30 chance of accepting my SACD's. Blu-rays play fine so there is most likely an issue of some kind with the red laser. The timing of this couldn't be worse.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23345919
> 
> 
> This was very interesting to hear and you are basically the ideal candidate for being in a position to compare the difference having 802's in the surround position makes when compared to 803's, their next closest speaker in the lineup and with you having owned 2 pairs and run them for quite a while you are very familiar with their performance in the surround position. I only had my Studio 100's as comparison so it wasn't a fair comparison I guess as the 803's in their own right would certainly out perform the 100's. So it makes me very happy reading that you can notice a difference between 803's and 802's even in the proverbial often looked down upon by the masses surround position
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just can't stop listening to my 800's. For the past week or so now I've basically gotten an album in each night. They are just so inviting and engaging always seeming to give a live performance in the room feeling.
> 
> 
> The one downside is my Denon started acting up and refuses to play all but 2 of my almost 30 DVD-A's and only about a 70/30 chance of accepting my SACD's. Blu-rays play fine so there is most likely an issue of some kind with the red laser. The timing of this couldn't be worse.



You have 802 surrounds also, correct?


----------



## Rod#S

Yep


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23347016
> 
> 
> Yep



Yeah I found your pictures on the other forum after asking...


Not sure, but perhaps the midrange, with the marlan head, is what creates the improvement, or are there differences in the crossovers between the 803 and 802? Don't know...


----------



## Rod#S

Yes, like the difference between the 800 and 802, the 803 also has different crossovers from the 802's. I'm going by a difference in price and parts numbers in the B&W parts list

http://bwgroupsupport.com/parts/partslist-bw


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23347087
> 
> 
> Yes, like the difference between the 800 and 802, the 803 also has different crossovers from the 802's. I'm going by a difference in price and parts numbers in the B&W parts list
> 
> http://bwgroupsupport.com/parts/partslist-bw



Protect those tweeters!


Yes, I'm presuming both the crossovers and the marlan midrange is what is contributing to the improvement


----------



## scanido




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/510#post_23344410
> 
> 
> The way I understand it is when setting speakers as xxl, they receive all crossed bass energy from other speakers plus .1 LFE. However, when using the AUX1/2 subs, all the xxl main's bass energy below the cross over point set in the AUX 1/2 settings is routed to the sub, so you are really not stressing your main if you have the cross's set appropriately. And again, it's a sloped cross, not a brick wall cross
> 
> 
> The net effect is the subs are playing the bass energy and LFE at the crossover point (in my case, 50 hz, starting at 62hz I believe with the slope. It is recommended that the subs be close to the associated mains for optimal performance.
> 
> 
> The tricky thing is you have to get the sub levels "correct", and its basically trial and error. But from what I can see, the 151 is not applying any level offsets to the aux subs, so if they are too low, for example, Room Perfect may cut the speakers too much to "match" the levels of the subs - in my case I was getting cuts of -14.5 db for my rears, which was too much - the range should be plus or minibus 12 db for optimal performance according to McIntosh. So I raised each sub even using the fathom gain control and a sound meter ( in my case about 3 or 4 db higher than the mains), ran room perfect again (minimum to get to 90%), saved the filterrs, and checked the offsets (you want to check the Bypass offset levels). If all the levels are less than + or - 12 db, you are good, and can add more room and focus positions.
> 
> 
> For my fathoms, this put the gain controls around 9:30 or 10 o'clock...
> 
> 
> To check the levels, I ran a sub test tone from spears and munsil 2nd edition, for the the left channel and then the right. Raise the master volume so you get a reasonable reading of the left main only (turn off the sub), then turn off the left main and turn on the left aux sub and measure. Initially, I tried making them equal, then the sub 3 db lower, and once I realized the the logic of what was happening, I went the other way and raised the subs 3 or 4 db above the mains and have not more the -9 db cuts.
> 
> 
> So once the subs are in range, then room perfect and trim or pad the offsets for the speakers within the safe range...
> 
> 
> Hope this helps - McIntosh doesn't make it easy in this regard...



Good to hear the AUX/XXL arrangement also redirects the other channels bass frequencies below their respective xover points. This makes total sense and how bass management should be implemented, only needed confirmation.


I'll have to play with my setup this weekend and see if I like how the stereo subs perform!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scanido*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23347602
> 
> 
> Good to hear the AUX/XXL arrangement also redirects the other channels bass frequencies below their respective xover points. This makes total sense and how bass management should be implemented, only needed confirmation.
> 
> 
> I'll have to play with my setup this weekend and see if I like how the stereo subs perform!



I think if you get the levels right and the subs are co-located near each associated main it should work out well for you - instead of Room Perfect calibrating multiple subs in different parts of the room as a single entity (as using the single sub out does), it is now calibrating each sub distinctly in its actual location...


----------



## thrang

Updated photos in first post, with 800's


----------



## mookie b

Holy....speechless.


----------



## scanido

Thrang your setup looks sick!!!


Your setup has come a long way. The 800D's look awesome. They proportionally look the bestas mains with the 802Ds/803D's as rears.


----------



## leo2498

very gorgeous this set up, the 800's keep looking huge in your room they are a beast! congrats Thrang's only I need that you tire of them and wait for you are selling them so I can buy it,







jajaja just a little joke.


BTW personally I don't like the matching of mac's with B&W sound but I have to admit that this MC601 look very awesome.


----------



## Nuz1

Wow that's impressive! Thanks for sharing your setup!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23349989
> 
> 
> very gorgeous this set up, the 800's keep looking huge in your room they are a beast! congrats Thrang's only I need that you tire of them and wait for you are selling them so I can buy it,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jajaja just a little joke.
> 
> 
> BTW personally I don't like the matching of mac's with B&W sound but I have to admit that this MC601 look very awesome.



I happen to love the Mac and B&W matchup, especially with the 151 processor - everything feels (and sounds) very cohesive...


----------



## Rod#S

Very nice, the 800's look nicely at home in the setup


----------



## thrang

Thanks all...


I know addino will come in now and say "sure, right....", but I think I'm set for a while....


(This space for tony to insert comment)










I guess I would look at what McIntosh's next generation processor might be, possibly a dedicated LFE sub, perhaps the Lumagen 4k video processor when it ships, and lets see what happens with Sony's 4k media player.


But all the heavy lifting is done for a while...


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23350916
> 
> 
> Thanks all...
> 
> 
> I know addino will come in now and say "sure, right....", but I think I'm set for a while....
> 
> 
> (This space for tony to insert comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I would look at what McIntosh's next generation processor might be, possibly a dedicated LFE sub, perhaps the Lumagen 4k video processor when it ships, and lets see what happens with Sony's 4k media player.
> 
> 
> But all the heavy lifting is done for a while...



P - I - G Supreme!


Actually, haven't heard with the 800's yet but the MX151 was a huge step up from the Marantz. Most significant improvement I've heard so far.


----------



## thrang

Now


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23350968
> 
> 
> P - I - G Supreme!
> 
> 
> Actually, haven't heard with the 800's yet but the MX151 was a huge step up from the Marantz. Most significant improvement I've heard so far.


Now tony, no name calling unless you like the moniker BrystonBitch! ;-)


Did you get your gear yet?


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23350916
> 
> 
> Thanks all...
> 
> 
> I know addino will come in now and say "sure, right....", but I think I'm set for a while....
> 
> 
> (This space for tony to insert comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I would look at what McIntosh's next generation processor might be, possibly a dedicated LFE sub, perhaps the Lumagen 4k video processor when it ships, and lets see what happens with Sony's 4k media player.
> 
> 
> But all the heavy lifting is done for a while...



Has the Lumagen 4K processor been announced? I'd pre-order that in a heart-beat!


I'm also tracking that Sony 4k media player--I plan on scoring a 4k projector in 2014 but I know the media player is expected this year to coincide with the growth of Sony's 900-series 4k tv's.


Also, you should be very proud of your setup. Yes, the gear is stellar; however, the care you've put into the room layout as a whole is even more impressive. Yours is a theater that would look just as impressive with entry-level gear as it does with the current high-end gear.


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23351024
> 
> 
> Now
> 
> Now tony, no name calling unless you like the moniker BrystonBitch! ;-)
> 
> 
> Did you get your gear yet?



Got it... just tweaking right now


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23351048
> 
> 
> Got it... just tweaking right now



Nice...looking forward to your feedback...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23351041
> 
> 
> Has the Lumagen 4K processor been announced? I'd pre-order that in a heart-beat!
> 
> 
> I'm also tracking that Sony 4k media player--I plan on scoring a 4k projector in 2014 but I know the media player is expected this year to coincide with the growth of Sony's 900-series 4k tv's.
> 
> 
> Also, you should be very proud of your setup. Yes, the gear is stellar; however, the care you've put into the room layout as a whole is even more impressive. Yours is a theater that would look just as impressive with entry-level gear as it does with the current high-end gear.



Thanks Brolic....it may not be an ideal room from a blackout perspective, but I always wanted to maintain a space that felt more than single-purposed (though I appreciate true dedicated spaces very much as well)


The full 4k Lumagen is not announced. They did announce 4k output processors, but still 1080p only input - with Darbeevision tech built in...but I will wait until the full 4k's are announced.


Yes, it will be interesting to see what next year brings in terms of 4k projectors - though very pleased with the 1000....


----------



## leo2498

Hi Thrang I see that you have many carpets in your room, some even hanging in your wall it is for decorative or for sound treatment?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo2498*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23351676
> 
> 
> Hi Thrang I see that you have many carpets in your room, some even hanging in your wall it is for decorative or for sound treatment?



Bit of both...we like the look in the room, but they also help with right wall first reflection point...


----------



## BVLDARI

  


I did not realize how big the MC303 is... But I guess it make sense since it's off the MC1.2k platform.


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19116729


Superb set-up, congratulations!  

 

How do you manage the lights coming out of the amps and pre/pro? When watching a movie, I can't stand my small blue LED coming out of the CA-M600 [I taped some black electrical tape onto a post-it note and cut a small rectangle that I put in front of the LED it works like a charm and doesn't leave any residue ]


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23361596
> 
> 
> Superb set-up, congratulations!
> 
> 
> How do you manage the lights coming out of the amps and pre/pro? When watching a movie, I can't stand my small blue LED coming out of the CA-M600 _
> _



Thanks


Well, the lights of course are a bit blown out in these photos - I use some window tint to cut some light down on the 303, which is a bit brighter than the 601's, and through the MX-151, I can turn the meters on or off via the 12 volt triggers.


----------



## Rod#S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23361803
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Well, the lights of course are a bit blown out in these photos - I use some window tint to cut some light down on the 303, which is a bit brighter than the 601's, and through the MX-151, I can turn the meters on or off via the 12 volt triggers.



Interesting, I never knew the meters could be turned off, cool. Those obtrusive meters (to me







) have always acted like a hazard sign for me. I like looking at Mac gear in other people's setup's but I couldn't live with those metres in my own setup.


----------



## Rod#S

You guys and your 600 watt amps







, you're killing me, makes me want a pair of 7B's, I feel left out of the club







I'll eventually get'em though so that will add a 3rd manufacturer to the group. What we would need after that I guess is someone else with a pair of 800 Diamonds being powered by Krell Evolution 600e's. The difference there I guess would be the amps are worth more than the speakers, definitely territory I'll never venture into.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23362248
> 
> 
> Interesting, I never knew the meters could be turned off, cool. Those obtrusive meters (to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) have always acted like a hazard sign for me. I like looking at Mac gear in other people's setup's but I couldn't live with those metres in my own setup.



They can be turned off by the switch on the front if you don't have a McIntosh processor as well. They don't bother me for non-critical viewing, and I turn them off when watching a film


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod#S*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23362265
> 
> *You guys and your 600 watt amps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , you're killing me, makes me want a pair of* 7B's, I feel left out of the club
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll eventually get'em though so that will add a 3rd manufacturer to the group. What we would need after that I guess is someone else with a pair of 800 Diamonds being powered by Krell Evolution 600e's. The difference there I guess would be the amps are worth more than the speakers, definitely territory I'll never venture into.



me too


----------



## thrang

Did a subtle update on the photos, as the meters were portrayed much brighter than in reality (all the shots are long exposure, natural light, no flash, so the meters overwhelm the rest of the picture)


Through some double exposures and quick Photoshop editing, most of the shots now show the meters closer to their actual illumination in the room (the Panorama and lights out shot do not, so the glow in those is accentuated greatly my the long exposure)


Now, maybe a 2:35 screen?


----------



## wse


2:35 is the way to go and 600W of power is always good to have


----------



## mookie b

would you just move the 800s out wider if you put in a 2.35 screen?


----------



## thrang

Yes, actually did that today and will calibrate and listen - moving then out does puts in the proper 20-30 degree angle off center for the left and rights...


----------



## PcGeek626


Amazing theater room.

I bet it screams on a good bluray movie. May i ask how your storing your bluray's?. I'm planning to do the same in the near future for back up only. any tips ?


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23364783
> 
> 
> Yes, actually did that today and will calibrate and listen - moving then out does puts in the proper 20-30 degree angle off center for the left and rights...



Cool. I'd do it if I were you. You'd keep the same size 16:9 pic and just add more for the scope movies. I have a 2.35:1 screen and like it. I would recommend some side masks if you do it....I made some manual ones that work great for me.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PcGeek626*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23364833
> 
> 
> Amazing theater room.
> 
> I bet it screams on a good bluray movie. May i ask how your storing your bluray's?. I'm planning to do the same in the near future for back up only. any tips ?



I use a Synology NAS RAID (20 terabytes currently) and rip my purchases with no compression using either AnyDVD HD or MakeMKV - playback either from Total Media Theater 5 Windows Media Center plug in or a Mede8er 1000 media player...


----------



## thrang

So here's a "what if" shot...

 


Current screen height is 65, but at 2.35 zoom, that's the MAX range of my lens zoom, so I will step back to a 62 or 63 inch height to have some play - the overlay of the "Brave" in scope is 62" high...


If I do this, there will be a very valuable 2.8 HP screen available...


----------



## mookie b

If you do it, be prepared to be inspecting aspect ratios before buys-rents-downloads....I do it always hoping for scope!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23366965
> 
> 
> If you do it, be prepared to be inspecting aspect ratios before buys-rents-downloads....I do it always hoping for scope!



Yeah, as I'm going to bed, I'm thinking, "How many titles that I own will benefit from this?..."


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23366998
> 
> 
> Yeah, as I'm going to bed, I'm thinking, "How many titles that I own will benefit from this?..."



Hey man, click on the link to my YouTube channel in my sig, and check out the Aspect Ratio videos Parts 1 and 2. I enjoy all my content in 2:35 thanks to my Lumagen.


Edit: Including Links Below:

*Part 1*




*Part 2*


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23367323
> 
> 
> Hey man, click on the link to my YouTube channel in my sig, and check out the Aspect Ratio videos Parts 1 and 2. I enjoy all my content in 2:35 thanks to my Lumagen.
> 
> 
> Edit: Including Links Below:
> 
> *Part 1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 2*



I will check them out completely, but in watching the part of the first, wouldn't I be using more of the 1000's panel (and thus get greater light output) if I used the zoom positions on the projector rather than the Lumagen? Ill try it nonetheless - thanks


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:


That's true thrang, but if you zoom 16:9 you'll have spillover on the top and bottom. Those are pretty cool videos, I've wanted to try that. Maybe I need to get a lumagen. Which lumagens do this?


On my 1000es, I'm already doing a lesser version of this using the 2.35zoom so my 16:9 stuff I'm watching in 17:9....which uses the full panel of the Sony.


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23367545
> 
> 
> I will check them out completely, but in watching the part of the first, wouldn't I be using more of the 1000's panel (and thus get greater light output) if I used the zoom positions on the projector rather than the Lumagen? Ill try it nonetheless - thanks



the difference in miniscule--definitely not noticable by the eye outside of a side-by-side comparison. What you can do (this is what I did) is zoom the projector with a 2:35 movie playing to the desire image width, and look at the screen brightness to determine if that brightness level is acceptible for you. Going this route, the brightness at this point will be identical for both 2:35 and 16:9 content with NLS engaged to fill the 2:35 screen, so your eyes can make the determination based on the portion of the image that is projected on your current screen (igonore the extensive overlap onto your wall, as this is solely for brightness determination.).


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23368172
> 
> 
> the difference in miniscule--definitely not noticable by the eye outside of a side-by-side comparison. What you can do (this is what I did) is zoom the projector with a 2:35 movie playing to the desire image width, and look at the screen brightness to determine if that brightness level is acceptible for you. Going this route, the brightness at this point will be identical for both 2:35 and 16:9 content with NLS engaged to fill the 2:35 screen, so your eyes can make the determination based on the portion of the image that is projected on your current screen (igonore the extensive overlap onto your wall, as this is solely for brightness determination.).



So, does that mean the lumagen isn't really stretching it, and is merely cropping the zoomed image?


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23368189
> 
> 
> So, does that mean the lumagen isn't really stretching it, and is merely cropping the zoomed image?



The cropping is only for back-up for movies with variable aspect ratios. All other times, the 2:35 image fills the screen as expected and 16:9 is stretched as specific locations to fill the 2:35 screen naturally.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/540#post_23350869
> 
> 
> I happen to love the Mac and B&W matchup...


was finally able to physically check out a B&W/McIntosh system employing 800D's and 802D's up close, very impressive. Was surprised to see that my local Best Buy/Magnolia SuperStore added a pair of 800D's to their "expensive" showroom collection. They already had a few pair of 802D's in there for a while. This newer system (set-up on opposite wall from B&W theater system, employing MX151 and 802D's) was a 2 channel configuration, comprised of C50 preamplifier, MCD500 CD/SACD player and two MC601 amp's. Listened to a few tracks from Diana Krall "From This Moment On" SACD, the 800D's just sounded very full and sweet! (to put it simple). Very large sound-stage, beautiful mid-range tone. I'd have to really mix-it-up more to really get a good picture of the bass capability, didn't get a chance to try different sources (ran out of time). Also didn't get a chance to physically switch speaker cables from 800D's over to 802D's and compare (maybe next time).
 
 
 


(not the best image quality, iPhone inside poorly lit room. Also can't understand why the component image does not display vertically? It display's correctly on my system?)


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23373576
> 
> 
> was finally able to physically check out a B&W/McIntosh system employing 800D's and 802D's up close, very impressive. Was surprised to see that my local Best Buy/Magnolia SuperStore added a pair of 800D's to their "expensive" showroom collection. They already had a few pair of 802D's in there for a while. This newer system (set-up on opposite wall from B&W theater system, employing MX151 and 802D's) was a 2 channel configuration, comprised of C50 preamplifier, MCD500 CD/SACD player and two MC601 amp's. Listened to a few tracks from Diana Krall "From This Moment On" SACD, the 800D's just sounded very full and sweet! (to put it simple). Very large sound-stage, beautiful mid-range tone. I'd have to really mix-it-up more to really get a good picture of the bass capability, didn't get a chance to try different sources (ran out of time). Also didn't get a chance to physically switch speaker cables from 800D's over to 802D's and compare (maybe next time).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (not the best image quality, iPhone inside poorly lit room. Also can't understand why the component image does not display vertically? It display's correctly on my system?)



Nice - they are superb speakers...and the 601's, while more power than needed in many cases, is a great amp to pair with them.


----------



## BVLDARI

I can't believe Best Buy carries McIntosh now...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374484
> 
> 
> I can't believe Best Buy carries McIntosh now...


yep, little-by-little the few, nearby, boutique shops disappeared literally over the last two, three or four years (Sound Factor, GNP, Ken Cranes, etc.,...well Ken Cranes was a chain, but they were a long-running specialty business). Now we're left with Best Buy/Magnolia (unless we drive further out). What I really miss is the [people] at these original mom-and-pop stores, they had/provided the real knowledge and hands-on experience.


----------



## thrang

The Magnolia nearest me has trouble setting up a Sonos system...


----------



## BVLDARI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374816
> 
> 
> yep, little-by-little the few, nearby, boutique shops disappeared literally over the last two, three or four years (Sound Factor, GNP, Ken Cranes, etc.,...well Ken Cranes was a chain, but they were a long-running specialty business). Now we're left with Best Buy/Magnolia (unless we drive further out). What I really miss is the [people] at these original mom-and-pop stores, they had/provided the real knowledge and hands-on experience.



very sad.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374821
> 
> 
> The Magnolia nearest me has trouble setting up a Sonos system...



this is even worse because you will never be able to demo the products like you should at magnolia (at least from what I've seen)...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVLDARI*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374843
> 
> 
> very sad.
> 
> this is even worse because you will never be able to demo the products like you should at magnolia (at least from what I've seen)...



Yes, but the good thing is while they struggle to get it working, you can always wander further and compare front-load washers...( well, our Magnolias are in Best Buys if this joke doesn't make sense to all)


----------



## wse


THe difference between the 802D 2 and the 800D 2 is not subtle I tried both and I went with the 800D 2 I am done with upgrade these are the best speakers I have ever owned


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374821
> 
> 
> The Magnolia nearest me has trouble setting up a Sonos system...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23374903
> 
> 
> Yes, but the good thing is while they struggle to get it working, you can always wander further and compare front-load washers...( well, our Magnolias are in Best Buys if this joke doesn't make sense to all)


haaa! This is true, literally. My wife and me were just at Best Buy/Magnolia on Memorial Day (last Monday), purposely, to cash-in on the washer/dryer holiday weekend sale. We got a deal on a new LG front-load washer/dryer set, very nice. And, literally, just next-door (30 feet away) is the Magnolia demo section. So, while my wife was finalizing paper-work/payment I snuck over and took those images and listened to a few SACD selections. My wife came over a few minutes later and listened, she really appreciated the sound presentation. I guess all other Best Buy/Magnolia stores are laid-out this way?










And, yes, I experienced the same hassle, the salesperson could not seem to get the Sonos unit to function during a previous visit.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23376282
> 
> 
> I am done with upgrade these are the best speakers I have ever owned


I believe it. I would be completely content with a McIntosh/800D set-up, I wouldn't change it. Would only need to change sources every-so-often.


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23376568
> 
> 
> 
> haaa! This is true, literally. My wife and me were just at Best Buy/Magnolia on Memorial Day (last Monday), purposely, to cash-in on the washer/dryer holiday weekend sale. We got a deal on a new LG front-load washer/dryer set, very nice. And, literally, just next-door (30 feet away) is the Magnolia demo section. So, while my wife was finalizing paper-work/payment I snuck over and took those images and listened to a few SACD selections. My wife came over a few minutes later and listened, she really appreciated the sound presentation. I guess all other Best Buy/Magnolia stores are laid-out this way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, yes, I experienced the same hassle, the salesperson could not seem to get the Sonos unit to function during a previous visit.



They're not all laid out that way. We have 10 or so Best Buys in San Diego, and most of them have a Magnolia. But only ONE has a Magnolia that carries and demos McIntosh and B&W 800ds. The other Magnolias only carry the higher end AV receivers (no pre/pros) and max out at B&W CM speakers.


----------



## Nuz1

As I understand it, any Magnolia store can order McIntosh gear or 800D series B&W (and/or several Sonus Faber speakers and/or REL subs). However only the Magnolia Design Centers have that level of equipment on display to demo. Unfortunately for me, only larger markets get the design centers. The good news for me is that the Chicago Design Center isn't too far and had good staff when I bought my speakers and a sub a couple of years ago.


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23376638 They're not all laid out that way. We have 10 or so Best Buys in San Diego, and most of them have a Magnolia. But only ONE has a Magnolia that carries and demos McIntosh and B&W 800ds. The other Magnolias only carry the higher end AV receivers (no pre/pros) and max out at B&W CM speakers.


 

Work for Magnolia?  I dream of your projector are you based in San Diego?


----------



## mookie b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23377992
> 
> 
> Work for Magnolia?  I dream of your projector are you based in San Diego?



No I don't work for BB, sorry if I made it sound that way. I meant "we" as in San Diegans!


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mookie b*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23376638
> 
> 
> But only ONE has a Magnolia that carries and demos McIntosh and B&W 800ds. The other Magnolias only carry the higher end AV receivers (no pre/pros) and max out at B&W CM speakers.


your right, our Best Buy store initially had a "regular" Magnolia "inside", later (maybe 6 months back) it was up-graded to "Super" Magnolia, and they brought in higher-end brands (ie. B&W, McIntosh, etc.,...), as well as in-house design services. This is partly why the nearby boutique shops closed-down.


----------



## wse


Yep they also carry Sonus Faber as well!


----------



## WestCoastD

Any of you guys ever download iTunes rental movie titles (socalled MP4 files)? I'm experimenting with a few, can't get them to play either on my PC, or using the Oppo BDP-103 via-MyBookLive DLNA hard drive


----------



## thrang

They have to be payed via iTunes or an Appletv (or on an iOS device)


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23409185
> 
> 
> They have to be payed via iTunes or an Appletv (or on an iOS device)


thanks, that's what I was wondering.


I was trying to transfer a movie file over from my PC to my iPhone such that I could "stream" it via-AirPlay to my Denon receiver, but I can't seem to transfer file over. I guess HDCP issue?


I guess I'll have to re-download another iTunes rental title directly to my iPad, or iPhone, then stream it via-AirPlay through the Denon AVR-2112CI, or Mrantz AV8801.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23409755
> 
> 
> thanks, that's what I was wondering.
> 
> 
> I was trying to transfer a movie file over from my PC to my iPhone such that I could "stream" it via-AirPlay to my Denon receiver, but I can't seem to transfer file over. I guess HDCP issue?
> 
> 
> I guess I'll have to re-download another iTunes rental title directly to my iPad, or iPhone, then stream it via-AirPlay through the Denon AVR-2112CI, or Mrantz AV8801.



I dont think you can stream video to the Denon, just audio. Might be easiest to get an AppleTV ($99 I think), connect that to an HDMI port on your Denon, and stream to the AppleTV from any iTune or iOS device.


----------



## BrolicBeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23411842
> 
> 
> I dont think you can stream video to the Denon, just audio. Might be easiest to get an AppleTV ($99 I think), connect that to an HDMI port on your Denon, and stream to the AppleTV from any iTune or iOS device.



+1...I use my Apple TV for this. Works well for what it is.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23411842
> 
> 
> I dont think you can stream video to the Denon, just audio. Might be easiest to get an AppleTV ($99 I think), connect that to an HDMI port on your Denon, and stream to the AppleTV from any iTune or iOS device.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23412115
> 
> 
> +1...I use my Apple TV for this. Works well for what it is.


ah, I see, thanks. I've seen the Apple TV product in the store, seems to be very popular. I'll probably break-down and buy one


----------



## booga24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/570#post_23364848
> 
> 
> I use a Synology NAS RAID (20 terabytes currently) and rip my purchases with no compression using either AnyDVD HD or MakeMKV - playback either from Total Media Theater 5 Windows Media Center plug in or a Mede8er 1000 media player...




Thrangs great system, one of the best on the forum. I am thinking of getting Synology ds213 and meder8er streamer, wanted to know how they working for u. Any pros and cons?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *booga24*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23622459
> 
> 
> Thrangs great system, one of the best on the forum. I am thinking of getting Synology ds213 and meder8er streamer, wanted to know how they working for u. Any pros and cons?





Not familiar with the DS213 in particular, but presuming it is is functionally similar to my 1512 setup....


The Mede8er folks are doing a really good job updating and improving the platform, far more than any other media player I've experienced. They recently added an internal scraper that works very well, and are beta testing TV Show episode scraping as well. Playback of 2D and 3D materials (via NFS, UDP, 32k) on my gigabit LAN works flawlessly.


The one mountain you must cross with all media players that are not "licensed" BD Association players is that they cannot present the full Blu Ray menu structure. They basically start playing the movie (whether an ISO, BDMV structure, or MKV). This is generally good, and Kalidescape-like. But for titles with extras, or titles that are branching Blu Rays (like most Pixar titles, Aliens collection, Star Wars for example), there are issues you must work around.


Generally, I am not overly concerned with extras, as I barely have enough time to watch the main movie much less the added stuff. But branching titles can cause skips at the branch points. The best way around this is to rip the main movie as an MKV format (using MakeMVK for example). This rips the file with the branch points seamlessly stitched, so no skips or issues. I am in the process of converting much of my ISO/BDMV folder collections to MKV's for this reason. "Important" extra's I rip as separate MKV's and play from a separate shared folder from the main titles.


----------



## booga24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23622814
> 
> 
> Not familiar with the DS213 in particular, but presuming it is is functionally similar to my 1512 setup....
> 
> 
> The Mede8er folks are doing a really good job updating and improving the platform, far more than any other media player I've experienced. They recently added an internal scraper that works very well, and are beta testing TV Show episode scraping as well. Playback of 2D and 3D materials (via NFS, UDP, 32k) on my gigabit LAN works flawlessly.
> 
> 
> The one mountain you must cross with all media players that are not "licensed" BD Association players is that they cannot present the full Blu Ray menu structure. They basically start playing the movie (whether an ISO, BDMV structure, or MKV). This is generally good, and Kalidescape-like. But for titles with extras, or titles that are branching Blu Rays (like most Pixar titles, Aliens collection, Star Wars for example), there are issues you must work around.
> 
> 
> Generally, I am not overly concerned with extras, as I barely have enough time to watch the main movie much less the added stuff. But branching titles can cause skips at the branch points. The best way around this is to rip the main movie as an MKV format (using MakeMVK for example). This rips the file with the branch points seamlessly stitched, so no skips or issues. I am in the process of converting much of my ISO/BDMV folder collections to MKV's for this reason. "Important" extra's I rip as separate MKV's and play from a separate shared folder from the main titles.




Thank you for your response, DS213 is basically a two bay version of the your 1512. Good to hear Meder8er is working out fine for you, I rip my blu ray's in MKV format (I don't really care for extras) and I am currently using my blu ray player for playback, but I will order the Meder8er with the DS213.


Are you using any HTPC with this set up? or you just have the 1512 hard wired to the Meder8er for playback? and with your experience with Oppo would you go back to that blu ray in this set up? Any up scaling feature on Meder8er? ( I have a few foreign movies in SD format that would be nice to upscale).


----------



## Ejs71




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19123295
> 
> 
> I also want to give props to my dealer, Talk of the Town in Allendale NJ - tremendous service, an unbelievable showroom with several high end rooms, carry most of the best lines - they have several of the new Diamonds on display including the 800's....


LOL... I think your dealer should be giving you the props.. being you made his month, if not year, in commission..


Nicely done. A DREAM system for myself.. I'm looking at the CM Line or PM1 line, and that's about stretching it for me.. Not to mention I won'y be using McIntosh!!!


Anyway.. what does a system like that cost????? (PM me if you don't want to disclose to public, or to anyone for that matter)


Again... NICLEY DONE!!!... Kinda funny how only 2 seats in that room!!


----------



## thrang

Thanks - I have four seats though...


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19116729
> 
> 
> 
> Current setup:
> 
> 
> 
> - Mcintosh MX-151 Processor with Room Perfect
> 
> - B&W 800D2 L/R
> 
> - B&W HTMD2 Center
> 
> - B&W 802D2 Surround
> 
> - B&W 803D2 Rears
> 
> - Two JL Audio Fathom 113 Subs
> 
> - McIntosh MC303 Three Channel Amplifier
> 
> - Mcintosh MC302 Two Channel Amps
> 
> - McIntosh MC601 Mono Blocks x 2
> 
> - McIntosh D100 DAC
> 
> - Sony VPL-VW1000 ES projector
> 
> - DaLite 133" 16x9 2.8 HP Fixed Screen
> 
> - Windows Media Center / MyMovies 4
> 
> - Mac Mini w/Audirvana
> 
> - Sony PS3
> 
> - Oppo 103 Blu Ray Player
> 
> - Mede8er 1000 X3 Media Player
> 
> - Octava 4x4 HDMI Matrix Switch
> 
> - TiVo Premiere XL4
> 
> - DirecTV Genie
> 
> - AppleTV 3rd Generation
> 
> - 3 x Furman Elite PF i Line Filtering AC Power Source
> 
> - Sonex WhisperWave Acoustical Ceiling tre


Thrang, when you upgraded to the 802D2 for surround did you hear major differences from 802D1


----------



## thrang

I never owned D1, just D2


----------



## Nuz1

Thrang,


I've told you before and I'll tell again: fabulous system!! I've followed your thread for quite a while and watched a variety of equipment come and go. I'm curious if you're content with the B&W / Mc combo or if there are other changes on the horizon?


Also curious about your Mede8er player. Are you happy with it? Has it been reliable? Did you compare it to Dune products (or others) before purchase?


Thanks!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nuz1*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23936140
> 
> 
> Thrang,
> 
> 
> I've told you before and I'll tell again: fabulous system!! I've followed your thread for quite a while and watched a variety of equipment come and go. I'm curious if you're content with the B&W / Mc combo or if there are other changes on the horizon?
> 
> 
> Also curious about your Mede8er player. Are you happy with it? Has it been reliable? Did you compare it to Dune products (or others) before purchase?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Thanks very much


No, no changes planned - extremely happy with the B&W / McIntosh combo.


I do love much about the Mede8er, but I do have a 2d Dune on order to evaluate again...having the 3d playback of the capability of the Mede8er is nice as an all in one solution, but I watch so little 3d that perhaps the full menu capability of the dune may be more satisfying...


----------



## Lear31Pilot

Thrang,


I've just spent part of my afternoon reading every single post & reply on this thread and I wanted to congratulate you on an awesome set up! We share several components which is just one of the reasons I read each post in detail. I was wondering however, since you're such a fan of B&W Speakers (as am I), whether or not you ever auditioned the B&W DB-1 subwoofers. If so, what was your experience with them? If not, why not? I currently own two of them in my set up and I guess I'm looking for affirmation of my purchase... 


Current setup:


- Integra DHC 80.2 (looking to upgrade to McIntosh MX-151)

- B&W 802D2 L/R

- B&W HTMD2 Center

- B&W SIG 8NT with back boxes - (3) L/R Surround & Single Back Surround

- B&W SIG 7NT with back boxes Front High

- B&W DB-1 Subs (2)

- McIntosh MC601 Mono Blocks x 2 FR L/R

- Adcom 5500 Bi Amp for Center Chanel

- Adcom 5400 L/R Surround

- Adcom 5335 Back Surround & FR High

- Sim2 Mico 150 DLP LED Projector

- DNP Supernova EPIC 144" Fixed Screen with masking system

- PS Audio Power Plant (2)

- Dune Base 3d Media Player

- Synology RS-812+ Rack mounted NAS (currently 16TB)

- Rack mounted PC with Haswell Core i7 quad core, 32gb Ram, 512 SSD, Win 8.1

- Netgear R7000 with Netgear GS-108 Switch

- Sony PS3

- Oppo 95 Blu Ray Player

- DirecTV DVR


Thanks in advance for your reply.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lear31Pilot*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24053577
> 
> 
> Thrang,
> 
> 
> I've just spent part of my afternoon reading every single post & reply on this thread and I wanted to congratulate you on an awesome set up! We share several components which is just one of the reasons I read each post in detail. I was wondering however, since you're such a fan of B&W Speakers (as am I), whether or not you ever auditioned the B&W DB-1 subwoofers. If so, what was your experience with them? If not, why not? I currently own two of them in my set up and I guess I'm looking for affirmation of my purchase...
> 
> 
> Current setup:
> 
> 
> - Integra DHC 80.2 (looking to upgrade to McIntosh MX-151)
> 
> - B&W 802D2 L/R
> 
> - B&W HTMD2 Center
> 
> - B&W SIG 8NT with back boxes - (3) L/R Surround & Single Back Surround
> 
> - B&W SIG 7NT with back boxes Front High
> 
> - B&W DB-1 Subs (2)
> 
> - McIntosh MC601 Mono Blocks x 2 FR L/R
> 
> - Adcom 5500 Bi Amp for Center Chanel
> 
> - Adcom 5400 L/R Surround
> 
> - Adcom 5335 Back Surround & FR High
> 
> - Sim2 Mico 150 DLP LED Projector
> 
> - DNP Supernova EPIC 144" Fixed Screen with masking system
> 
> - PS Audio Power Plant (2)
> 
> - Dune Base 3d Media Player
> 
> - Synology RS-812+ Rack mounted NAS (currently 16TB)
> 
> - Rack mounted PC with Haswell Core i7 quad core, 32gb Ram, 512 SSD, Win 8.1
> 
> - Netgear R7000 with Netgear GS-108 Switch
> 
> - Sony PS3
> 
> - Oppo 95 Blu Ray Player
> 
> - DirecTV DVR
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your reply.



Thanks - yes, a number of like-minded purchases...


I had purchased the Fathoms before the DB-1's were released. I've been very happy with the Fathom's, so I felt no need to change despite how much I like all my other B&W gear. I think the specs show the 113's go a little lower, but I'd have to re-look at that...


----------



## Lear31Pilot

Well, to be honest, I think that I've made a huge mistake. Although I absolutely love my other B&W speakers, I'm afraid that the DB1s are falling short in performance. They just don't seem to be able to handle both high output and low frequencies. (Isn't this what a sub is supposed to do?) I am on my second pair (the first pair was replaced by B&W after two weeks) because they seem to be bottoming out and produce a very loud, not to mention disturbing, "clacking" sound during intense passages. When the Space ship flies over the waterfall in Prometheus, it sounds as if the sub is going to come apart. It does this also during the opening passage of "The Art of Flight". For the majority of my music listening, they rock but for movies, not so much...


----------



## mookie b

The Fathoms are a bit long in the tooth now, seems like people don't talk about them anymore. I have had 2 for 4 years or so and they are the one piece I won't change. They're more than enough for me!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lear31Pilot*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24069938
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, I think that I've made a huge mistake. Although I absolutely love my other B&W speakers, I'm afraid that the DB1s are falling short in performance. They just don't seem to be able to handle both high output and low frequencies. (Isn't this what a sub is supposed to do?) I am on my second pair (the first pair was replaced by B&W after two weeks) because they seem to be bottoming out and produce a very loud, not to mention disturbing, "clacking" sound during intense passages. When the Space ship flies over the waterfall in Prometheus, it sounds as if the sub is going to come apart. It does this also during the opening passage of "The Art of Flight". For the majority of my music listening, they rock but for movies, not so much...



Something doesn't seem right - not going low enough is one thing, but bottoming out the driver is something else...almost sounds like you're driving them way too hot, either the gain too hot on the db-1 or in the processor...when you run test tones with a sound meter what are you reading on all speakers and subs?


----------



## Lear31Pilot

The B&W factory rep for my area has been to my house and he too is scratching his head... When running the speaker setup and level calibration on the Integra, the subs' measured output(s) are right at 75 bd which is the same level as my other speakers. The settings for the subs on the Integra processor are set flat at 0.0 db and the crossovers at 80 which is the lowest setting possible on the Integra. On the subs themselves, the Low-Pass filter is set to off. Since the Integra's balanced output levels are 2.0V or greater, the Sensitivity of the DB1s are to be set to -6 db and according to B&W, the gain should then be increased by the amount of reduction in the sensitivity, which in this case would be +6 db. When I first tried this method, I was definitely overdriving the subs as I would see the red light flash momentarily. Keep in mind that this is the recommendation from B&W! I then lowered the gain to 0 bd and although this prevented the clipping, the subs still could not handle the previously described scenes... I've since lowered the gain to a negative value (keep in mind that I already have reduced the sensitivity by its maximum amount) however even at low volumes (68) the sub still bottoms out... I'm really curious to see how the JL Audio F113 would handle this...


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lear31Pilot*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24070174
> 
> 
> The B&W factory rep for my area has been to my house and he too is scratching his head... When running the speaker setup and level calibration on the Integra, the subs' measured output(s) are right at 75 bd which is the same level as my other speakers. The settings for the subs on the Integra processor are set flat at 0.0 db and the crossovers at 80 which is the lowest setting possible on the Integra. On the subs themselves, the Low-Pass filter is set to off. Since the Integra's balanced output levels are 2.0V or greater, the Sensitivity of the DB1s are to be set to -6 db and according to B&W, the gain should then be increased by the amount of reduction in the sensitivity, which in this case would be +6 db. When I first tried this method, I was definitely overdriving the subs as I would see the red light flash momentarily. Keep in mind that this is the recommendation from B&W! I then lowered the gain to 0 bd and although this prevented the clipping, the subs still could not handle the previously described scenes... I've since lowered the gain to a negative value (keep in mind that I already have reduced the sensitivity by its maximum amount) however even at low volumes (68) the sub still bottoms out... I'm really curious to see how the JL Audio F113 would handle this...



I have no idea what these calculations are useful for...unless there is some non-linear element at play I'm unaware of.


The bottom line is one you get a relative 75 db from your sub, you are effectively balanced. The only thing to look at is if your processor gain or cut is 12 db or greater, which is generally out of range for proper level setting throughout the volume range.


Are you running Audyssey and/or Audyssey dynamic volume ? Sometimes these can cause bloat.


The DB also has a calibration process, correct? Perhaps simplify, and bypass all processing in the Integra and DB, set levels, and see what you have...


----------



## Roger Dressler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lear31Pilot*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24069938
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, I think that I've made a huge mistake. Although I absolutely love my other B&W speakers, I'm afraid that the DB1s are falling short in performance. They just don't seem to be able to handle both high output and low frequencies. (Isn't this what a sub is supposed to do?) I am on my second pair (the first pair was replaced by B&W after two weeks) because they seem to be bottoming out and produce a very loud, not to mention disturbing, "clacking" sound during intense passages. When the Space ship flies over the waterfall in Prometheus, it sounds as if the sub is going to come apart. It does this also during the opening passage of "The Art of Flight". For the majority of my music listening, they rock but for movies, not so much...


If the subs are not placed advantageously in the room, they may be working overtime producing less useful output at your listening position. That would be the place to start.


Also, is there any EQ being applied to the subs?


----------



## Lear31Pilot

I'm not using Audyssey nor any kind of equalization or dynamic volume. The subs are set to flat and are set to an even lower gain than what's called for in the manual. Their levels have been set at 75 db along with the other speakers so I know that the system is balanced. We have also tried various locations within the room. When they make the "clacking" noise, which I'm assuming is the speaker bottoming out, the volume may be set as low as 68 (out of 100) and the other speakers sound just fine. During this clacking noise, I'm NOT seeing the "normal" blue LED turning red which would indicate an overdrive situation.


Although I really appreciate all of your input, I really feel bad because I don't want to "hijack" thrang's thread... I really was just fishing to see if anyone else has had a similar experience... The B&W factory rep is coming over again this week. I'll report back any findings....


Thanks again!


----------



## audiofan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lear31Pilot*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600_40#post_24080789
> 
> 
> I'm not using Audyssey nor any kind of equalization or dynamic volume. The subs are set to flat and are set to an even lower gain than what's called for in the manual. Their levels have been set at 75 db along with the other speakers so I know that the system is balanced. We have also tried various locations within the room. When they make the "clacking" noise, which I'm assuming is the speaker bottoming out, the volume may be set as low as 68 (out of 100) and the other speakers sound just fine. During this clacking noise, I'm NOT seeing the "normal" blue LED turning red which would indicate an overdrive situation.
> 
> 
> Although I really appreciate all of your input, I really feel bad because I don't want to "hijack" thrang's thread... I really was just fishing to see if anyone else has had a similar experience... The B&W factory rep is coming over again this week. I'll report back any findings....
> 
> 
> Thanks again!



How many hours on the drivers? I've had new subs do this and they just needed time to loosen up a bit


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiofan1*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24081406
> 
> 
> How many hours on the drivers? I've had new subs do this and they just needed time to loosen up a bit



If his sub is clanking, any looser and the driver will go flying across the room...


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23411842
> 
> 
> I dont think you can stream video to the Denon, just audio. Might be easiest to get an AppleTV ($99 I think), connect that to an HDMI port on your Denon, and stream to the AppleTV from any iTune or iOS device.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrolicBeast*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23412115
> 
> 
> +1...I use my Apple TV for this. Works well for what it is.



So I broke down and bought an AppleTV unit for one of my systems (using Denon AVR-2113CI receiver).


So far I've tested it once:

went into NetFlix (via-AppleTV), streamed "Breaking Bad" 1rst episode. Video loaded properly, audio codec showed "Dolby Digital" on Denon display. Overall performance was decent. Video picture quality was'nt the best, maybe this was mostly due to the quality of the actual content? I'm not sure?


So, right after, I purposely logged-off NetFlix on AppleTV. Went into my Oppo 103 player, logged-on to NetFlix, watched the same episode of "Breaking Bad", audio quality was noticeably more dynamic. Also Denon display shows "DDD" codec. Video quality may have been equal to output from AppleTV though (ie. poor/mediocre resolution).


Is audio quality adjustable on the AppleTV appliance? I have it set for "Auto"


----------



## audiofan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600_40#post_24081511
> 
> 
> If his sub is clanking, any looser and the driver will go flying across the room...


Better lay off any hard hit movies as a flying driver would bring 3D to a new level of realism







All kidding aside, he may need to tighten the screws down on the sub drivers, this is his second and some thing is indeed amiss.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiofan1*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24084019
> 
> 
> Better lay off any hard hit movies as a flying driver would bring 3D to a new level of realism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All kidding aside, he may need to tighten the screws down on the sub drivers, this is his second and some thing is indeed amiss.



Clanking implies the magnet hitting the driver basket, not a cabinet issue. Best the let B&W figure this out.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_24083312
> 
> 
> 
> So I broke down and bought an AppleTV unit for one of my systems (using Denon AVR-2113CI receiver).
> 
> 
> So far I've tested it once:
> 
> went into NetFlix (via-AppleTV), streamed "Breaking Bad" 1rst episode. Video loaded properly, audio codec showed "Dolby Digital" on Denon display. Overall performance was decent. Video picture quality was'nt the best, maybe this was mostly due to the quality of the actual content? I'm not sure?
> 
> 
> So, right after, I purposely logged-off NetFlix on AppleTV. Went into my Oppo 103 player, logged-on to NetFlix, watched the same episode of "Breaking Bad", audio quality was noticeably more dynamic. Also Denon display shows "DDD" codec. Video quality may have been equal to output from AppleTV though (ie. poor/mediocre resolution).
> 
> 
> Is audio quality adjustable on the AppleTV appliance? I have it set for "Auto"



Don't know westcoast, will try the same episode. My wife and I watched the first three episodes of House of Cards via Netflix on ATV and it looked and sounded great.


Are your ATV and Oppo wired Ethernet, or is the ATV wireless? Streaming services will. Often auto negotiate quality to meet throughput, but generally audio is audio, so not sure


----------



## WestCoastD

Yeah, seems like it may be a situation where ATV provides Dolby Digital ("Dolby Digital" on display), and the Oppo provides Dolby Digital Plus ("DDD" shows on display), two different codecs literally. .


Even my wife noticed the difference in sound immediately. Definitely more dynamic. Not sure if may be a level output issue?


Someone on another thread ("Networking, Streaming Media Devices, etc.,...) thinks that ATV is constrained, or limited, due to outside (studio) pressures, controlling content on 3rd-party streaming services. I don't know?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24085468
> 
> 
> Yeah, seems like it may be a situation where ATV provides Dolby Digital ("Dolby Digital" on display), and the Oppo provides Dolby Digital Plus ("DDD" shows on display), two different codecs literally. .
> 
> 
> Even my wife noticed the difference in sound immediately. Definitely more dynamic. Not sure if may be a level output issue?
> 
> 
> Someone on another thread ("Networking, Streaming Media Devices, etc.,...) thinks that ATV is constrained, or limited, due to outside (studio) pressures, controlling content on 3rd-party streaming services. I don't know?



Maybe this thread can help...

https://discussions.apple.com/message/13016557#13016557 


I haven't tried testing yet


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24085468
> 
> 
> Yeah, seems like it may be a situation where ATV provides Dolby Digital ("Dolby Digital" on display), and the Oppo provides Dolby Digital Plus ("DDD" shows on display), two different codecs literally. .
> 
> 
> Even my wife noticed the difference in sound immediately. Definitely more dynamic. Not sure if may be a level output issue?
> 
> 
> Someone on another thread ("Networking, Streaming Media Devices, etc.,...) thinks that ATV is constrained, or limited, due to outside (studio) pressures, controlling content on 3rd-party streaming services. I don't know?



I can confirm there is a difference as you note - DD+ on Netflix/Oppo, DD on Netflix/AppleTV.


Appears either Netflix or Apple would need to update that app.


You might want to rent/buy one episode of Breaking Bad via iTunes and see if there's a difference.


----------



## Carboraine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/600#post_23936306
> 
> 
> Thanks very much
> 
> 
> No, no changes planned - extremely happy with the B&W / McIntosh combo.
> 
> 
> I do love much about the Mede8er, but I do have a 2d Dune on order to evaluate again...having the 3d playback of the capability of the Mede8er is nice as an all in one solution, but I watch so little 3d that perhaps the full menu capability of the dune may be more satisfying...



Hey Thrang, awesome setup! Love the look and im sure it sounds amazing.


I've ripped all my blurays to mkv without compression and based on some of the feedback here and in a few other threads, I'm thinking about getting either a Mede8er MED1000X3D or a Dune HD Base 3D (i have a wdtv live right now and it stutters with high bitrate rips). Do you happen to know if the Mede8er supports converting dts-ma and dolby digital true hd to LPCM (as opposed to bitstreaming)? My preamp is the Marantz AV8003 and it doesnt support audyssey if you bitstream highedf audio.


Also, is there any reason you would choose either the mede8er or the dune over the other? I typically just rip the main movie, none of the extras and keep everything in MKV format and would like to directly stream from my NAS using smb. Thanks in advance!


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24089606
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang, awesome setup! Love the look and im sure it sounds amazing.
> 
> 
> I've ripped all my blurays to mkv without compression and based on some of the feedback here and in a few other threads, I'm thinking about getting either a Mede8er MED1000X3D or a Dune HD Base 3D (i have a wdtv live right now and it stutters with high bitrate rips). Do you happen to know if the Mede8er supports converting dts-ma and dolby digital true hd to LPCM (as opposed to bitstreaming)? My preamp is the Marantz AV8003 and it doesnt support audyssey if you bitstream highedf audio.
> 
> 
> Also, is there any reason you would choose either the mede8er or the dune over the other? I typically just rip the main movie, none of the extras and keep everything in MKV format and would like to directly stream from my NAS using smb. Thanks in advance!



No, it only outputs 2 channel even when selecting multi LPCM in the audio setup.


Addino is getting the Dune player you mention, and it is supposed to output audio as you need...perhaps he can post here once he gets it up and running


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24086534
> 
> 
> I can confirm there is a difference as you note - DD+ on Netflix/Oppo, DD on Netflix/AppleTV.
> 
> 
> Appears either Netflix or Apple would need to update that app.
> 
> 
> You might want to rent/buy one episode of Breaking Bad via iTunes and see if there's a difference.


wow, thanks for confirming that test. Apple would definitely have to generate a new firmware update (if they have'nt already) to provide DDD+ .


I will experiment with iTunes "Breaking Bad" episode, I'm very curious now.


----------



## Reddog01


Just had a new MX 151 installed.  After just a couple of days am very impressed.  However, I am puzzled.  With all of its connection capability, I was told by the installers, they could not install my headphones for late night use watching TV or listening to music.  I would think this would be simple.  Does anyone have a solution?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reddog01*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24103664
> 
> 
> Just had a new MX 151 installed.  After just a couple of days am very impressed.  However, I am puzzled.  With all of its connection capability, I was told by the installers, they could not install my headphones for late night use watching TV or listening to music.  I would think this would be simple.  Does anyone have a solution?



With no headphone jack, I presume some type of headphone amp with line in jacks, connected to the pre-outs on the 151...might want to pass this one by McIntosh tech support, but I think it was simply design as theater processor which would not have a need for headphones. Not that it would have hurt them to include a port...


----------



## bao01

At one point did you own the Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro?

If so, wondering how stereo sound (mp3, WAV, CDs) sounded compared to the Mc processor - in regular stereo mode or with surround music modes (Dolby PL IIx, DTS Neo:6 etc).


thanks


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bao01*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24230768
> 
> 
> At one point did you own the Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro?
> 
> If so, wondering how stereo sound (mp3, WAV, CDs) sounded compared to the Mc processor - in regular stereo mode or with surround music modes (Dolby PL IIx, DTS Neo:6 etc).
> 
> 
> thanks



Yes, I did own the 80.3 - one of the nicer pre-pro's I've owned. But the quality of the 151 is substantively better. Music has much better clarity, pin-point accuracy, against a inky black background. It also has Room Perfect, which is appreciably better than Audyssey XT32 Pro. The 151 is really a gem for both music and movies.


I only listen to music 2.1, unless the source is authored multi-channel.My music is only lossless (ALAC) ripped from CD's, or a few higher resolution downloaders.


I hope for the sake of the community, they release the completed firmware soon, which addresses some bugs in True HD and LPCM playback. Apparently, there are a few additional (unanticipated?) changes that need to be clarified, but McIntosh should be able to rectify that to their satisfaction and get the update properly released.


----------



## Carboraine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24089745
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24089606
> 
> 
> Hey Thrang, awesome setup! Love the look and im sure it sounds amazing.
> 
> 
> I've ripped all my blurays to mkv without compression and based on some of the feedback here and in a few other threads, I'm thinking about getting either a Mede8er MED1000X3D or a Dune HD Base 3D (i have a wdtv live right now and it stutters with high bitrate rips). Do you happen to know if the Mede8er supports converting dts-ma and dolby digital true hd to LPCM (as opposed to bitstreaming)? My preamp is the Marantz AV8003 and it doesnt support audyssey if you bitstream highedf audio.
> 
> 
> Also, is there any reason you would choose either the mede8er or the dune over the other? I typically just rip the main movie, none of the extras and keep everything in MKV format and would like to directly stream from my NAS using smb. Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it only outputs 2 channel even when selecting multi LPCM in the audio setup.
> 
> 
> Addino is getting the Dune player you mention, and it is supposed to output audio as you need...perhaps he can post here once he gets it up and running
Click to expand...


I ended up buying the Dune. It doesnt do dolby true hd to 7.1 lpcm (so im converting those to flac) but everything else works perfect.


Random question for you. Do you have a good solution for ripping blurays with seamless branching to mkv? I use makemkv on my mac and it always throws av sync errors with any seamless branching discs. It trys to correct it by dropping frames but im wondering if there is a better solution.


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24231631
> 
> 
> I ended up buying the Dune. It doesnt do dolby true hd to 7.1 lpcm (so im converting those to flac) but everything else works perfect.
> 
> 
> Random question for you. Do you have a good solution for ripping blurays with seamless branching to mkv? I use makemkv on my mac and it always throws av sync errors with any seamless branching discs. It trys to correct it by dropping frames but im wondering if there is a better solution.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk



No - I use MakeMKV on a Mac as well, and have never had an issue with branching titles - perhaps it's drive related? I thnk I'm using an LG Blu Ray drive, don't recall the specific model at the moment...


----------



## bao01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24231553
> 
> 
> Yes, I did own the 80.3 - one of the nicer pre-pro's I've owned. But the quality of the 151 is substantively better. Music has much better clarity, pin-point accuracy, against a inky black background. It also has Room Perfect, which is appreciably better than Audyssey XT32 Pro. The 151 is really a gem for both music and movies.
> 
> 
> I only listen to music 2.1, unless the source is authored multi-channel.My music is only lossless (ALAC) ripped from CD's, or a few higher resolution downloaders.
> 
> 
> I hope for the sake of the community, they release the completed firmware soon, which addresses some bugs in True HD and LPCM playback. Apparently, there are a few additional (unanticipated?) changes that need to be clarified, but McIntosh should be able to rectify that to their satisfaction and get the update properly released.



Thanks - very helpful comparison.


----------



## Carboraine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24231682
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24231631
> 
> 
> 
> No - I use MakeMKV on a Mac as well, and have never had an issue with branching titles - perhaps it's drive related? I thnk I'm using an LG Blu Ray drive, don't recall the specific model at the moment...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use an lg drive as well. MakeMKV definitely has issues with seamless branching. Could you do me a favor? Next time you rip simething with extended and regular length movies on one disc (like gladiator or angles and demons) turn on expert mode in makemkv and then check the box to log av sync issues and see if it says its dropping frames.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## thrang

I'll check next time, though I've never seen an issue during playback...


One post out there in the inner-net had this comment:

The reason, so far as I can tell, is that on some branching discs, frames are repeated when it movies between each m2ts file. So if MakeMKV didn't drop frames eventually you'd lose sync.

Blu-ray players must have a similar mechanism built into them.


Don't know if this is true or not...


----------



## Carboraine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24231985
> 
> 
> I'll check next time, though I've never seen an issue during playback...
> 
> 
> One post out there in the inner-net had this comment:
> 
> The reason, so far as I can tell, is that on some branching discs, frames are repeated when it movies between each m2ts file. So if MakeMKV didn't drop frames eventually you'd lose sync.
> 
> Blu-ray players must have a similar mechanism built into them.
> 
> 
> Don't know if this is true or not...



That is all true. The issue is, makemkv doesnt do a perfect job so the end result ends up being that the mkv is still off at the end by a few ms and fluctuates how much its off by throughout the movie (basically it drops frames to catch up and then floats away and then drops frames again).


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238057
> 
> 
> That is all true. The issue is, makemkv doesnt do a perfect job so the end result ends up being that the mkv is still off at the end by a few ms and fluctuates how much its off by throughout the movie (basically it drops frames to catch up and then floats away and then drops frames again).



I don't know - I've never really noticed a dropped frame or audio sync issues...is it noticeable to you?


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htdhvy*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238057
> 
> 
> That is all true. The issue is, makemkv doesnt do a perfect job so the end result ends up being that the mkv is still off at the end by a few ms and fluctuates how much its off by throughout the movie (basically it drops frames to catch up and then floats away and then drops frames again).



I've only seen that with one title so far. I've ripped several titles with MakeMKV. All seem to play fine.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238190
> 
> 
> I've only seen that with one title so far. I've ripped several titles with MakeMKV. All seem to play fine.



Which title, and how does the issue present itself?


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238211
> 
> 
> Which title, and how does the issue present itself?



American Gangster.


You will start to notice audio sync issues about 30 - 45min into the film, the video will then jump back into sync. Repeats after 30min or so.


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238240
> 
> 
> American Gangster.
> 
> 
> You will start to notice audio sync issues about 30 - 45min into the film, the video will then jump back into sync. Repeats after 30min or so.



Oh no, that was the director's intent...


----------



## Carboraine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24238117
> 
> 
> I don't know - I've never really noticed a dropped frame or audio sync issues...is it noticeable to you?


Depends on the movie. I think the biggest issue is that if i know there were sync issues on a movie, i look for it. It would probably have been best if i had never started tracking it.


----------



## wse

Magnificent set-up, the only issue that I see from my perspective is that when watching a movie all the lights from the Mc are really disturbing


Where do you live town, country ? I would love to see your room in person


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now#post_19116729
> 
> 
> 
> Current setup:


If I am ever in your area I would love to get a demo! Please !


----------



## thrang

I've PM'd you - I think we are opposite coasts....


----------



## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24730632
> 
> 
> I've PM'd you - I think we are opposite coasts....



I know but some time I come to your side of the world so if timing is right who know maybe one of these days


----------



## WestCoastD

I was curious, being I'm in-process installing a projector and screen, is your Sony Projector lens in-line with the bottom edge of your screen? Or does it matter?


----------



## thrang




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24772106
> 
> 
> I was curious, being I'm in-process installing a projector and screen, is your Sony Projector lens in-line with the bottom edge of your screen? Or does it matter?



No, its about in the middle...the manual has a chart I think showing the horizontal and vertical position ranges, so you should check that out. I think it is also affected by zoom.


----------



## WestCoastD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thrang*  /t/1273072/thrangs-home-theater-for-now/630#post_24772140
> 
> 
> No, its about in the middle...the manual has a chart I think showing the horizontal and vertical position ranges, so you should check that out. I think it is also affected by zoom.


I see, thanks. I'm sure each set-up (projector brand/model, distances, screen, etc.,...) all vary.


I'm using an Elite screen, essentially 80in wide X 45.1in height. I have an Epson 3020 projector lens positioned in the center of screen, approx. 3.0in to 4.0in below the top edge. Projection distance is approx. 9.0ft..


I'm estimating a screen size approx. = 70in wide X 40.0in height.


----------



## Rod#S

Hi thrang. I've got a question for you, are you still using the Synology NAS? If so how do you like the unit? I'm thinking about purchasing a DS415play and was just curious about reliability of Synology in general. I'll probably load it with WD 6TB Red drives. Do you take advantage of the RAID configuration or are all your drives configured as individual drives? I have been giving the Bryston BDP-2 some serious consideration and if I do get the unit I believe I'll start ripping all of my CDs and putting the albums on the NAS, that way I can also pile on movies, tv shows and high resolution digital music downloads.

Thanks,

Rod


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Hi thrang. I've got a question for you, are you still using the Synology NAS? If so how do you like the unit? I'm thinking about purchasing a DS415play and was just curious about reliability of Synology in general. I'll probably load it with WD 6TB Red drives. Do you take advantage of the RAID configuration or are all your drives configured as individual drives? I have been giving the Bryston BDP-2 some serious consideration and if I do get the unit I believe I'll start ripping all of my CDs and putting the albums on the NAS, that way I can also pile on movies, tv shows and high resolution digital music downloads.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rod


Hi Rod

Yes, I still use two synology raids - one 5+5 (10 bay) for movies, and one 5 bay for music and household files and backups.

The movie raid is off all the time, and I use a WoL packet from Roomie Remote to start it when I select my Dune playback activity.

I have the 1512/1513 units...can't remember precisely at the moment

Using raid on both NAS units, not individual drives.


----------



## Rod#S

Thanks.


So are you daisy chaining the two for movies to get 10 thus you can run RAID on 5 groups of 2 without having an odd man out?


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> So are you daisy chaining the two for movies to get 10 thus you can run RAID on 5 groups of 2 without having an odd man out?


Not sure what you're asking...the movie raid is 10 drives total in the main and expansion units. I have it configured as one raid 5, so I am losing one the ten drives for redundancy. You can configure it anyway you'd like...if you want to improve your data security,you could do two five drive raids, and lose two of course this way, but with larger capacity drives, it may be viable.

For my units, Synology doesn't seem to list larger than 4tb drives as supported, though it's possible other units can utilized higher capacity disks


----------



## Rod#S

Thanks


Yeah I worded that wrong, my bad but you answered my question though. Different NAS units do seem to support different size drives, it might depend on how old the units are I guess because the DS415play which is a new product launched either this month or last supports up to 6TB while I noticed same other units only supporting 5TB. So with your units how do you manage the NAS units, do they have an OS type setup where you connect, install the software then configure, etc.? That's how the 415play seems to work from what I've read about it's smaller brother, the DS214play. One of the reasons I'm considering the play unit is that it supports video transcoding. I typically use either my PS3 or Xbox360 to stream my content and they don't support all of the typical file formats that a computer does so I'm thinking that transcoding may help me and keep me from having to convert incompatible files to something that the consoles will recognize.


Oh, you need to get your photos updated


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> Yeah I worded that wrong, my bad but you answered my question though. Different NAS units do seem to support different size drives, it might depend on how old the units are I guess because the DS415play which is a new product launched either this month or last supports up to 6TB while I noticed same other units only supporting 5TB. So with your units how do you manage the NAS units, do they have an OS type setup where you connect, install the software then configure, etc.? That's how the 415play seems to work from what I've read about it's smaller brother, the DS214play. One of the reasons I'm considering the play unit is that it supports video transcoding. I typically use either my PS3 or Xbox360 to stream my content and they don't support all of the typical file formats that a computer does so I'm thinking that transcoding may help me and keep me from having to convert incompatible files to something that the consoles will recognize.
> 
> 
> Oh, you need to get your photos updated


Yes, new photos...soon.

There is software that you use initially to find the NAS on the network to set up the (I think IP and name...but it's been almost two years since I did that...) after a few minutes on the app, everything is configured from a web interface.

There is a DS Video app for the synology among many others that does transcoding but I'm not sure what it does well or poorly. I'm just ripping BDMV's and storing them there for Dune playback


----------



## Nuz1

I read in one of the other threads that you'd gotten rid of the Mac gear and were auditioning Parasound Halo. I'll be curious to hear what you think about the Halo sound, how it compares to Mac and if you miss those blue meters.


----------



## mookie b

Nuz1 said:


> I read in one of the other threads that you'd gotten rid of the Mac gear and were auditioning Parasound Halo. I'll be curious to hear what you think about the Halo sound, how it compares to Mac and if you miss those blue meters.


I would like to know your thoughts too!


----------



## thrang

I know need to update photos and post my feedback on the Parasounds, hoping to do so by next week..I've been busy with some other projects, but soon.


----------



## mookie b

thrang said:


> I know need to update photos and post my feedback on the Parasounds, hoping to do so by next week..I've been busy with some other projects, but soon.


I've got Parasound Halo amps as well as McIntosh. The Halo's are nice, have the black versions.


----------



## WestCoastD

mookie b said:


> I've got Parasound Halo amps as well as McIntosh. The Halo's are nice, have the black versions.


Halo's here as well. Definitely like to get your impressions/comparisons


----------



## jima4a

Nuz1 said:


> I read in one of the other threads that you'd gotten rid of the Mac gear and were auditioning Parasound Halo. I'll be curious to hear what you think about the Halo sound, how it compares to Mac and if you miss those blue meters.


I am also very interested in your take on the Parasound Halo vs the Macs and the Bryston sst2's you had briefly.


----------



## Nuz1

Thrang,

Any updates for us? I'm still curious about the McIntosh vs Halo comparison. But it's been long enough since you've updated the thread, I'm wondering if you're on to your next audio adventure?


----------



## thrang

I have been posting elsewhere, but not here for a while.. got sidetracked a bit with a headphone adventure.

No, the Halo's are still firmly in place, and I'll post some thoughts soon.


----------



## thrang

Updated first post with current theater photos - all equipment, except for physical media players, are out of the room into a new rack in the basement. Projector now mounted on floating shelf. Some furniture rearrangement

Will post new equipment rack photos and thoughts on switching from McIntosh to Bryston to Parasound amplification soon


----------



## Nuz1

Thrang,

Looking good! I'm also looking forward to the updated rack pictures and your thoughts on the Halos!


----------



## Rod#S

Looking forward to your amp comparisons thrang. I've actually now heard a Parsound Halo amp on a pair of 802's. I would have to pop back into my dealer's to see which specific model it was, it definitely wasn't the JC1, it was a stereo or multichannel model.


----------



## thrang

I posted the below in the Marantz 8802 thread regarding the amps:


_Well to be fair, the McIntosh amps were the second most enjoyable amps I've owned, the Halo's being first. When you factor in cost differential, the gap between them grows.

I would not have tried the McIntosh amps unless I got a good deal, which I did.

The Mc amps were dead quiet, more than any other amp I've owned, and pretty much impervious to any ground or electrical noise. And they never ran hot, just mildly warm even when pushing them. And for hobbyists, I would bet the Mc brand has the best resale value.

The Halo's just perform better from low to high frequency. Their low-end attack is very ample and fast, high end is more open and spacious without being clinical or sharp. Midrange is not recessed either, and is very appealing.

I suppose a number of design differences, including the wide(r)band design and the option of running in high bias Class A mode are notable factors. The penalty is they are big, heavy, run HOT and are a little more finicky passing some ground or electrical noise. I've got them running quite silent, and with the rack in the basement beneath the theater, heat is not an issue.

I would crudely rank my amp ownership:

1 - Parasound
2 - McIntosh
3 - Earthquake
4 - Bryston
5 - Denon
6 - Emotiva
7 - Wyred 4 Sound_​


To add a little more to this...I'm probably being a little kind to the Brystons. I was distinctly disappointed with them after spending a month listening. A fellow AVS has actually followed the same path as me - from McIntosh to Bryston to Parasound.

I guess the best way I can put it is the Parasounds sound most "real" to me out of all the amps I've owned. I'm sure quite a bit is speaker, room, and preference dependent, but I would strongly recommend anyone looking to invest in high quality amplification, and can deal with the additional heat they can throw, should look closely at the Halo line.


----------



## Rod#S

Cool, thanks

It's intersting how we all hear things differently. Different rooms and associated gear also playing a big factor. My thoughts on the Halo was more in line to your thoughts on the Brystons in that I wasn't all that impressed or maybe as impressed as I wanted to be is a better choice of words. What I heard was a smoothing of the midrange, a warmth if you will, similar to a tube sound. Nothing wrong with that as a lot of people go out of their way for that but for me I see it as an inaccurate reproduction of the source content. Like a guitar player using the mid controls on an amp. As a musician the test for me is that if I pick up an acoustic guitar and play a passage from a piece of music that what I hear coming out of the stereo system playing the same pece is as close as possible to reproducing that. The Sim Audio Moon gear my dealer has in the same room is incredibly accurate at doing this, I'm talking gosebump territory. So obviously room and associated equipment play a big part like we both mention. I'm kind of OCD about that with acoustic reproduction thus I couldn't live with a tube amp in my HT/Stereo setup. Funny thing though is tube amps are all I use for my electric guitar. I guess the difference here is that I'm the creator of the music 

I would like to hear the JC1's though just in case there is something different about them compared to the other amps in the Halo lineup.


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Cool, thanks
> 
> It's intersting how we all hear things differently. Different rooms and associated gear also playing a big factor. My thoughts on the Halo was more in line to your thoughts on the Brystons in that I wasn't all that impressed or maybe as impressed as I wanted to be is a better choice of words. What I heard was a smoothing of the midrange, a warmth if you will, similar to a tube sound. Nothing wrong with that as a lot of people go out of their way for that but for me I see it as an inaccurate reproduction of the source content. Like a guitar player using the mid controls on an amp. As a musician the test for me is that if I pick up an acoustic guitar and play a passage from a piece of music that what I hear coming out of the stereo system playing the same pece is as close as possible to reproducing that. The Sim Audio Moon gear my dealer has in the same room is incredibly accurate at doing this, I'm talking gosebump territory. So obviously room and associated equipment play a big part like we both mention. I'm kind of OCD about that with acoustic reproduction thus I couldn't live with a tube amp in my HT/Stereo setup. Funny thing though is tube amps are all I use for my electric guitar. I guess the difference here is that I'm the creator of the music
> 
> I would like to hear the JC1's though just in case there is something different about them compared to the other amps in the Halo lineup.



What Halo's have to listened to before, the A51?

Here are the pertinent spec similarities and differences between the mono JC1 vs the five channel A51:


*JC1*


Ultra-high bias Class A/AB operation
Exclusive two position bias level adjustment
Balanced inputs with discrete circuits and XLR connectors
Direct Coupled - no capacitors or inductors in signal path
Complementary MOSFET driver stage and JFET input stage
18 beta-matched 15 amp, 60 MHz bipolar output transistors
1.9 kVA encapsulated toroid power transformer
Independent power supplies for input, driver and output stages
18,000 µF filters for driver stage
132,000 µF Nichicon Gold Tune filters for output stage
DC Servo and relay protection circuits
REL and Nichicon Muse capacitors
Harris hyper-fast soft recovery diodes for all bridge rectifiers




*A51*


High bias Class A/AB operation
Balanced inputs with discrete circuits and XLR connectors
Direct Coupled - no capacitors or inductors in signal path
Complementary MOSFET driver stage and JFET input stage
40 beta-matched 15 amp, 60 MHz bipolar output transistors
2.2 kVA encapsulated toroid power transformer with independent secondary windings for each channel
164,000 µF power supply filter capacitance
DC Servo and relay protection circuits





I think most good mono block designs are better than multichannel (at least my experience), and the JC1 High Bias mode for Class A operation is the first 25 watts. I believe it is the first 5 watts for the A51.

Nonetheless, I respect that Bryston has a committed following, especially on the pro side - that was one of the reasons I gave it a go.

BTW, is the indent function working for anyone? I have indent tags around the specs, and nada...same with the post above highlighting my comments on amps from the 8802 thread.


----------



## Nuz1

I'll echo the thanks as I've been watching for your comparison. Having a Mc452 in my 2 channel rig, I was mesmerized by your photos when it was all Mac gear. I've been planning to upgrade my home theater over time and had visions of adding a Mc303 for LCR to go with my B&Ws. But I've seen Kal Rubison recommend Halo as a worthy alternative to Mac and the Halo A31 certainly has a more budget friendly price. 

I'll be curious to see the rack pictures and how much space you gave them or what other steps taken to reduce the heat and/or ground hum issue since it's mentioned so much with Halo amps.


----------



## Rod#S

It was probably the A51 but I can't say for sure. Next time I'm at my dealer's to pick up some Siltech cables to bring home and demo I'll make sure to find out. The amp has been there for years apparently so perhaps it's an older design???


Nope, the specs are in bullet form for me but not indented. 


If I had a car I would probably bring the Halo home to see if I come to the same conclusions. I would certainly love to try the Moon equipment at my place. That's a fabulous setup the dealer has, an integrated (I think) and a CD player, both like $10k a piece. The thing I don't like about the Moon gear is the overly large LED displays, they just look weird.


----------



## Rod#S

McIntosh is another manufacturer I would love to try out, along with D'Agostino.


----------



## thrang

Added the rack photos to the first post...


----------



## thrang

Nuz1 said:


> I'll echo the thanks as I've been watching for your comparison. Having a Mc452 in my 2 channel rig, I was mesmerized by your photos when it was all Mac gear. I've been planning to upgrade my home theater over time and had visions of adding a Mc303 for LCR to go with my B&Ws. But I've seen Kal Rubison recommend Halo as a worthy alternative to Mac and the Halo A31 certainly has a more budget friendly price.
> 
> I'll be curious to see the rack pictures and how much space you gave them or what other steps taken to reduce the heat and/or ground hum issue since it's mentioned so much with Halo amps.


Well heat is not much of an issue for me - the rack is in a brink lined basement, quite cool. I wouldn't have left them in the theater room however. There is a dehumidifer hosed to a sump pump for high humidity days, and an air cleaner. There are two Middle Atlantic rack fans in the rear drawing air out as well. The fans and air cleaner power on when the system turns on, as I use a trigger out from the MX-151 to the Furman's, which allow the lower outlets to be trigger controlled. Upper outlets are always on.

The slight noise for me was not a ground hum, but more of a hiss and very slight buzz from the A51, not audible except faintly at about 1.5 feet away. I rearranged which circuits were powering the A51 and the MX-151, and that eliminated the faint buzz. I'm wondering if the Parasound inputs are more sensitive than the McIntosh amps, because if I mute the 151 while the system is otherwise active, there is zero hiss or noise. It's so incidental I'm not bothering at the moment to see if its from the DTV or Tivo or some other device in the rack.


----------



## Nuz1

Thanks again for updating us! I know everyone listens at different levels of loudness. But out of curiousity, when you had the mac gear, did you ever watch the meters to see what your wattage peaked at while enjoying movies? In my own situation, I know switching from an integrated amp with 125 watts per channel to the Mc452 changed the sound of my speakers--especially when I turn it up. But I watch the meters on the Mac and rarely do I get above 5 watts on a 4 ohm load. I'm all for overkill. But from that observation it looks like 250-300 watts would provide plenty of excess amplifier unless I change speakers to something more difficult to drive. Would you agree? Or do you subscribe to the more power is better philosophy?


----------



## thrang

Nuz1 said:


> Thanks again for updating us! I know everyone listens at different levels of loudness. But out of curiousity, when you had the mac gear, did you ever watch the meters to see what your wattage peaked at while enjoying movies? In my own situation, I know switching from an integrated amp with 125 watts per channel to the Mc452 changed the sound of my speakers--especially when I turn it up. But I watch the meters on the Mac and rarely do I get above 5 watts on a 4 ohm load. I'm all for overkill. But from that observation it looks like 250-300 watts would provide plenty of excess amplifier unless I change speakers to something more difficult to drive. Would you agree? Or do you subscribe to the more power is better philosophy?


Enough power, with some overhead for future speaker and room changes which might require additional wattage. This site helps...

http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators#amp_power_required

I think with the 601's a modest amount above 60 was about it on the meters - so maybe 200-300 watts. But I knew I was purchasing more power than needed. I wanted to try some of the technology in that model that's not in lower models, and I knew the resale on a mono block would be strong if I ever moved on...funny, it was opposite with the Bryston's - the 3-channel 6bsst2 got me the best price, while the 7bsst2 were much more of a struggle to sell.


----------



## Nuz1

Thanks for the feedback and the link. I'll be sure to check it out. 

I happen to be moving soon. So as part of packing up my system, I'm planning to swap out the Sonus Fabers in the 2 channel for the B&Ws used for surround system to compare and contrast. It'll also be interesting to see how the power demands vary between the speakers. Of course, just saying this outloud may confirm my nerd status with my wife...


----------



## w1000i

Rod#S said:


> McIntosh is another manufacturer I would love to try out, along with D'Agostino.


I'd like to add to your list the ATI 6002 amplifier 
One of the greatest designed amp from a company that design for marklevinson and others


----------



## Rod#S

I suspect I would like ATI because everything I have heard about their amps leads me to believe they are very neutral like the Brystons.


----------



## thrang

Updated the first post in this thread with the new ceiling upgrade...I'll post a little more detail and a few build out photos a little later


----------



## thrang

For a few different reasons, I decided to install a drop ceiling in my theater, beneath the existing sheetrock ceiling. Since the ceiling was a little over 9 feet high, I could afford a 6-7" drop without any feeling of being cramped.

Especially, I was hoping to:

1) mitigate sound transfer to my daughter's bedroom above
2) improve sound in the room
3) eliminate the white reflective ceiling and improve screen image quality
4) provide an easy chase to pre-wire for in ceiling elevation speakers

I went with CertainTeed's Theater Black 2x2 tiles, a semi-rigid spun fiberglass tile with a flat black fabric surface, in 5/8". I then backed all tiles with cut Owens Corning 703 foil faced board, 2" thick. Installation was a combination of myself, my son, a friend, and a professional.

I also added 8 Auralex T'fusor diffusion tiles in the ceiling to scatter some sound, but just absorb. They come white, but I painted them flat black, which I also did for my AC air diffusers.


It begins



















My son installed the hangers, screwed through the drywall and resilient channel layer into the laminate beams above




















Using an old in-walll speaker location to chase ceiling speaker wires up from the basement rack location




























This was a ***** job...


----------



## thrang

For the AC air diffuser, the drop was too short, nor could I find any obvious adapter to connect to the 8 x 8 box, which was finished flush with the existing sheetrock - 










so we improvised, screwing the diffuser into a sandwhich of finished tile/OC703 board (to anchors, shown below on the backside), and then making 8x8 (inside dimension) collars from the OC board (so open on top and bottom) taped with aluminum duct tape. The height was measured to be a snug fit between the sheetrock and the inside of the OC board. We then simply slid the collar between the ceiling and the diffuser/panel "sandwich"', and the snug fit lets the air fall right through from the sheet metal box above through the diffuser in the tile.


----------



## Franin

That's a good idea Thrang  you've got me thinking!! 


Frank


----------



## G-Rex

Thrang, what ceiling speakers are you going to use? How many...and describe placement in relation to your one row of theater chairs? Thanks.


----------



## thrang

G-Rex said:


> Thrang, what ceiling speakers are you going to use? How many...and describe placement in relation to your one row of theater chairs? Thanks.


I will likely use the KEF CI200RR-THX, which apparently have a dispersion that exceeds the spec...I will post more about positioning in the next few days


----------



## miliotov

Hi Thrang,


Since you have expercience with Mcintosh and Parasound and B&W I think I should ask you this question.

I bought B&W CT8.4 frontspeakers (3) and I'm hesitating between 2 amps: McIntosh mc207 and a Parasound A51+A31. 

Is there a big difference in SQ between these amps?

Any advise is welcome.....


----------



## thrang

miliotov said:


> Hi Thrang,
> 
> 
> Since you have expercience with Mcintosh and Parasound and B&W I think I should ask you this question.
> 
> I bought B&W CT8.4 frontspeakers (3) and I'm hesitating between 2 amps: McIntosh mc207 and a Parasound A51+A31.
> 
> Is there a big difference in SQ between these amps?
> 
> Any advise is welcome.....


I started with a McIntosh 7 channel amp, then went to two channel and finally the 601 monoblocks...

I am running the Parasound monoblocks for the front, and the A51 for surrounds...I do prefer the Parasound sound and would not revert.


----------



## Rod#S

Seeing all that work going on around your speakers makes me cringe. I see a guy getting way to close for comfort in one of your pics. No way would I have had the speakers in there during the renno, you are very trusting of the workers


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Seeing all that work going on around your speakers makes me cringe. I see a guy getting way to close for comfort in one of your pics. No way would I have had the speakers in there during the renno, you are very trusting of the workers


I know, but really no option to remove them easily and on the short timeline, and the room is sunken so they'd have to be carried out up a few steps...I hovered around speakers as work approached them, and used some blankets at times...


----------



## thrang

Ten star field tiles should be delivered early next week...five wide, two deep over the seating area...


----------



## G-Rex

That will be a nice touch. Thought about having my ceiling painted with glow in the dark stars. Haven't done it yet.


----------



## RichB

That is a stellar system. I am sure it sounds fantastic.

Enjoy !

- Rich


----------



## w1000i

Ultimate setup if it has Black diamond screen


----------



## thrang

w1000i said:


> Ultimate setup if it has Black diamond screen


I never explored much because they don't make a screen large enough, or at least they didn't...


----------



## thrang

Update on my KEF CI200RR-THX ceiling speakers for elevation channels...my asinine idea securing them in the grid alone was not working, as they were rolling off around 250 hz...so it became Hammertime...

Because of the open back design of the speakers, I was getting some leakage through the 2 inches of OC703 and 5/3 Certainteed tile sandwich, and my stiffener board for the speakers wasn't stiff enough, so there must have been a fair amount of cancellation occurring. So a back box made the most sense, though it is somewhat a PITA to do this around a ceiling grid, and KEF doesn't make one..

Based on KEF's published documentation and confirmed after speakers with a 25 KEF veteran, the enclosure needed to be minimally .71 cubic feet for optimal LF response (you could build it more than minimal but it wouldn't do anything further). Based on the desire to have the finished boxes protrude just about 2" into the room so I had some options to trim ceiling tile around it, my average exterior box size for 1/2 MDF was 16x16x8.5 (they vary in depth based on the uneven original ceiling above the level grid)

We built the top plate two inches larger all the way around as a flange for attaching to the ceiling.










Then sprayed an adhesive inside each box and lined with some insulation










Needs more paint!










To make the job easier, I purchased an adjustable pole jail from Home Despot...










Screws and toggles being used to secure to the ceiling. 










We were able to hit three flanges with screws into joists. The fourth side we used a better 3/8 toggles like these










The boxes aren't that heavy, perhaps 15-20 pounds, and the speaker is 8.

Almost finished










The remaining issues are finishing...I don't like the painted MDF, so may look at applying a laminate finish in place. And getting the ceiling tiles to fit nicely around the box is an issue, will likely cut a tile straight in half and try and measure out the cube cut out as accurately as possible...

This is where things are at right now...good enough for the moment!











Just started to test, but it looks like the rolloff is now somewhere between 90 and 60 (fronts measure better than rears, but at this point, thats room location as the boxes and speakers are the same)


----------



## audiofan1

Nice work


----------



## eng-399

Thrang can you post a picture of the entire ceiling with the speakers up there. I'm planning on doing this next to my room and reading everyone's thread trying to figure out how to get done. Btw great job it looks great!!! Thanks


----------



## thrang

eng-399 said:


> Thrang can you post a picture of the entire ceiling with the speakers up there. I'm planning on doing this next to my room and reading everyone's thread trying to figure out how to get done. Btw great job it looks great!!! Thanks


Well if you look at the main page there are some wider shots of the ceiling prior to the boxes going in, but I'd never be able to shoot all four locations in one frame. Not only dimensionally but black boxes on a black ceiling will have very little detail

I'll see if there is an angle that is somewhat representwtive


----------



## eng-399

Thanks for trying I went through your build thread before posting the last comment to see if you had any pics of the ceiling completed. I'm late jumping in here but love what you did to your room congrats!


----------



## thrang

eng-399 said:


> Thanks for trying I went through your build thread before posting the last comment to see if you had any pics of the ceiling completed. I'm late jumping in here but love what you did to your room congrats!


First page has lots of ceiling shots...what more specifically would be helpful?


----------



## eng-399

thrang said:


> First page has lots of ceiling shots...what more specifically would be helpful?



I found the pictures wow very impressive! I was viewing it first through tapatalk on my phone and the first post wasn't showing the pictures. I went to my laptop and they showed up. The whole room as a whole is so nice. I bet it sounds great in there!


----------



## doublewing11

thrang said:


> First page has lots of ceiling shots...what more specifically would be helpful?


Age is catching up to me..................

Looked very carefully on page one for two inch intrusions from Kef's....................call me blind, but couldn't see them.


----------



## thrang

doublewing11 said:


> Age is catching up to me..................
> 
> Looked very carefully on page one for two inch intrusions from Kef's....................call me blind, but couldn't see them.


No, the main photos are not with the boxes yet, but I interpreted the request from eng-399 to see the entires ceiling, which, within wide-angle limits, shows the positions of the speakers in their prior mounting attempt...haven't retaken the whole room yet.

A few post prior is a shot of one of the boxes protruding through the drop ceiling...still need to complete that dressing on all four speakers properly, but probably not until next weekend at earliest...


----------



## skro

cool thread. Thanks!

I'm looking at these KEFs for my Atmos upgrade, and my question is that I've got a large attic (insulated) above the ceiling where they would go (tall, A-frame living room), so the open volume behind the speakers is enormous (basically, the attic to the whole house). I know you mentioned a minimum volume behind these, with no benefit going bigger, but is there a problem with going virtually infinite open-space behind these speakers? I'm not worried about sound leak above (single story) or to other rooms.

Thanks!


----------



## Big BBB

thrang said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *WestCoastD*
> 
> killer set-up man, wish I had a room like that. Thanks for posting
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback - it takes time, and lots of misguided money, is all I can say...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Ain't that the truth.


----------



## thrang

Quick shot of the the star field over the seats...need to redo a few photos in the first post, and will add a few more star field shots when I do...

Nothing major, just keeping the thread up to date...


----------



## thrang

skro said:


> cool thread. Thanks!
> 
> I'm looking at these KEFs for my Atmos upgrade, and my question is that I've got a large attic (insulated) above the ceiling where they would go (tall, A-frame living room), so the open volume behind the speakers is enormous (basically, the attic to the whole house). I know you mentioned a minimum volume behind these, with no benefit going bigger, but is there a problem with going virtually infinite open-space behind these speakers? I'm not worried about sound leak above (single story) or to other rooms.
> 
> Thanks!


Well, I think KEF looks at the speaker going into a typical sheetrock wall, which has natural stud and outside wall/upper floor backing, usually with insulation around it and a solid, non-flexing mount. If you're talking bare ass naked driver into the void of outer space, I'm not sure...I would call KEF and describe your specific installation. Remember, they don't make back boxes, so you need to make your own.


----------



## thrang

Updated first post will new theater room photos, emphasizing new Atmos speaker install with custom back boxes.

Boxes need more finishing, the tile surrounds are temporary as I don't like how they are fitting...


----------



## thrang

Hadn't posted anything about the family room setup, but did a few upgrades this week, partly because the Integra 20.4 networking shat the bed, and had an issue with one of the B&W M1 speakers. So replaced the receiver with a Marantz, and took my KEF LS-50's which were sitting idle in my office, put them to use in the family room, and matched center and surrounds...

Equipment List

Marantz NR1506
KEF LS-50 (x5)
B&W ASW608 subwoofer
Dune Media Player
DirecTV, TiVo, AppleTV (shared from Octava 4x4 whole home HDMI/ethernet matrix switch)
Roomie Remote/iPad 2
Bello's SP 300 speaker stands
B-Tech BT77 side clamping speaker stands


----------



## rontalley

Dude! Your setup(s) are freaking sweet! Wow!!


----------



## leadliner

try two coats of latex satin polyurethane.


----------



## thrang

leadliner said:


> try two coats of latex satin polyurethane.


As refreshing beverage?


----------



## leadliner

thrang said:


> As refreshing beverage?


no over the mdf ,it might make the finish look better.


----------



## thrang

leadliner said:


> no over the mdf ,it might make the finish look better.


Oh, ok, thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## TMcG

First time visiting your thread....very impressive setup!! I used to have the original Nautilus 802s for the L/R, HTM1 for Center and Nautilus 803s for the rears with two Energy 18" subs. Proceed amplification and AVP preamp. Freakin' loved the sound of that system so I can only imagine the improvement with Diamonds and better subs!!

Questions regarding the KEF Atmos speakers.... Have you been happy with the Atmos effect with the dispersion characteristics of these speakers? Do you notice any significant tonal differences between the KEFs and your B&Ws or do they integrate (blend) fairly well? What frequency did you use for the KEF crossover?


----------



## thrang

TMcG said:


> First time visiting your thread....very impressive setup!! I used to have the original Nautilus 802s for the L/R, HTM1 for Center and Nautilus 803s for the rears with two Energy 18" subs. Proceed amplification and AVP preamp. Freakin' loved the sound of that system so I can only imagine the improvement with Diamonds and better subs!!
> 
> Questions regarding the KEF Atmos speakers.... Have you been happy with the Atmos effect with the dispersion characteristics of these speakers? Do you notice any significant tonal differences between the KEFs and your B&Ws or do they integrate (blend) fairly well? What frequency did you use for the KEF crossover?


Thanks, yes, the sound is superb...

I find the KEF's are great, and have no issues matching well with the foundation layer.

Right now I'm running at 80 I believe, but I could do 60


----------



## Skrill

Very nice setup!

But I have a question. Currently I am running a setup with N803s and HTM3S in black ash. I like the finish in my blacked out room as it does not reflect much. Although I still see some reflections off the screen in the seating position - but they are not that distracting and only during the brightest scenes. See my sig for my setup/context.

I have thought about stepping up to 802D2s (on close out/demo sale right now at my dealer) - but the piano black finish gives me pause. Do you notice any reflections from your screen (bouncing off the gloss black finish) back to the MLP? Do you find the reflections distracting? 

Thanks!


----------



## thrang

Skrill said:


> Very nice setup!
> 
> But I have a question. Currently I am running a setup with N803s and HTM3S in black ash. I like the finish in my blacked out room as it does not reflect much. Although I still see some reflections off the screen in the seating position - but they are not that distracting and only during the brightest scenes. See my sig for my setup/context.
> 
> I have thought about stepping up to 802D2s (on close out/demo sale right now at my dealer) - but the piano black finish gives me pause. Do you notice any reflections from your screen (bouncing off the gloss black finish) back to the MLP? Do you find the reflections distracting?
> 
> Thanks!


There are reflections of course, but no one is ever distracted or comments..we're all sensitive to different things, and I'm fairly anal about defects and intrusions, but I'm never aware of them.


----------



## audvid

thrang said:


> Current setup:
> 
> - Marantz 8802a Processor
> - B&W 800D2 L/R
> - B&W HTMD2 Center
> - B&W 802D2 Surround
> - B&W 803D2 Rears
> - JL Audio Fathom 113 Subs (x2)
> - Parasound Halo JC1 Monoblock amplifiers (x3)
> - Parasound Halo A51 5 Channel amplifier
> - Parasound Halo A23 2 Channel amplifier (x2)
> - Sony VPL-VW1100 ES projector
> - DaLite 160" 2.35:1 JKP Affinity 1.3 Screen
> - Dune Smart B1 / MyMovies 5
> - Mac Mini w/Pure Music
> - Sony PS4
> - Oppo 103 Blu Ray Player
> - Octava 4x4 HDMI Matrix Switch
> - TiVo Premiere XL4
> - DirecTV Genie
> - AppleTV 3rd Generation
> - Furman Elite 15A PFi Line Filtering AC Power Source (x3)
> - CyperPower AVR Pure Sine Wave UPS (x3)
> - Barry Controls Neoprene Vibration Pads
> - CertainTeed Theater Black 5/8" drop ceiling
> - Owens Corning 2" 703FRK (above all tiles)
> - Auralex T-fusor Diffusers (x8)
> - Genesis Drifts Reflective Ceiling Tiles (x2)
> - _Control:_ Roomie Remote/iPad 4/Global Cache IR and Serial/Insteon Lighting/ISY-994i Controller
> - Digital Loggers Web Power Switch 7 (for individual component remote power cycling)
> 
> _UPDATED 8_31_15_


Wow! Nice system!
I have heard those B&W speakers. I would have loved to use them in my system. They are superior to my speakers. Unfortunately, when I re-designed my theatre, I made the mistake of not planning for larger speakers like the B&Ws. Using mono blocks, as you did, is the only way to go! I bet your system sounds amazing!

I do have a couple of questions/comments though..
Recently, I tried to switch to black walls but it made me claustrophobic. Amazing for the picture but very impractical. Therefore, I changed to dark walls (dark red with dark acoustic panels). 
I have always had black carpet, for the first 10 ft from the screen. 
Like you, I also have a black ceiling. 
How ever, a couple of things I noticed..
You have a lot of wood surfaces and that too light colored, along with light colored walls and carpet. Please forgive me for asking.. because I am sure you know the repercussions of having the light colored wall and wood and carpeting.. but I am just wondering why you chose to not correct that.. I don't mean to be disrespectful... just curious.. because you have such a great projector and audio system.. Maximising with more acoustics might help or not? Just curios..


----------



## thrang

audvid said:


> Wow! Nice system!
> I have heard those B&W speakers. I would have loved to use them in my system. They are superior to my speakers. Unfortunately, when I re-designed my theatre, I made the mistake of not planning for larger speakers like the B&Ws. Using mono blocks, as you did, is the only way to go! I bet your system sounds amazing!
> 
> I do have a couple of questions/comments though..
> Recently, I tried to switch to black walls but it made me claustrophobic. Amazing for the picture but very impractical. Therefore, I changed to dark walls (dark red with dark acoustic panels).
> I have always had black carpet, for the first 10 ft from the screen.
> Like you, I also have a black ceiling.
> How ever, a couple of things I noticed..
> You have a lot of wood surfaces and that too light colored, along with light colored walls and carpet. Please forgive me for asking.. because I am sure you know the repercussions of having the light colored wall and wood and carpeting.. but I am just wondering why you chose to not correct that.. I don't mean to be disrespectful... just curious.. because you have such a great projector and audio system.. Maximising with more acoustics might help or not? Just curios..


It's a long process, and certain things are easier to fix than others. Ironically, I just repainted the room yesterday - Benjamin Moore Hodley Red, which has a much lower LRV (about 9.7 I think). There is also a temporary black velvet covering over the light color carpet at the the front of the soundstage, and a darker, larger area rug has been ordered to replace that temporary fix and the current area rug.

The trim is minor and doesn't materially impact viewing. The side console table has also been moved behind the seating to eliminate it's reflectance...I just cannot do anything with the large unit on the right. Still, the blackness of the room is now much improved (actually, almost uncomfortably so)

I'll take some new pictures soon, but this is why (for now) is in the thread title...


----------



## thrang

Forgive my friend's carpenter crack!

Here is the color difference:


----------



## audvid

I found that color to be perfect for home theatre.. I used almost the same color.


----------



## thrang

Updated first post to reflect new darker room color...

Still need to update area rug, and add some diffusion to rear walls...


----------



## audvid

thrang said:


> Updated first post to reflect new darker room color...
> 
> Still need to update area rug, and add some diffusion to rear walls...


Very nice!


----------



## blackjack616

this is my favorite HT system, any reasons you like B&W so much for HT?


----------



## jima4a

I don't see your ceiling speakers listed in post 1


----------



## b2okane

wow a dream system.. very nice


----------



## G-Rex

Thrang, is your 2:35:1 screen 160" wide or diagonal? What is your view distance from your screen? I take it you are staying with the JKP 1.3 for your 5000es. 

I am dabbling with the idea of increasing my screen size to about 13' wide and going with an ST100. I, similar to you, have one row of 4 chairs. I am not a front seat kind of guy though, and don't want it too big. Presently I sit 15' 6" from my 141" wide 2:35:1 ST130 and it feels smaller every year.


----------



## thrang

G-Rex said:


> Thrang, is your 2:35:1 screen 160" wide or diagonal? What is your view distance from your screen? I take it you are staying with the JKP 1.3 for your 5000es.
> 
> I am dabbling with the idea of increasing my screen size to about 13' wide and going with an ST100. I, similar to you, have one row of 4 chairs. I am not a front seat kind of guy though, and don't want it too big. Presently I sit 15' 6" from my 141" wide 2:35:1 ST130 and it feels smaller every year.


I need to clarify that on the first post - it's 160 diagonal/148 wide

I'm about 13 feet from the screen, and I'm changing to the JKP 0.9 material....the 1.3 starting leeching some material causing small spots on the screen, so Dalite replaced it at no charge and gave me the option of selecting a different material.

The 0.9 measures about 1.0 according to Jeff Meier's tests, and should be a lot more color accurate and uniform with reduced sparkle


----------



## G-Rex

That will work out nicely for you. Should be a nice screen.


----------



## WestCoastD

interesting, that you're using 03-quan Furman Elite 15A PFi conditioners to support your system. I'm using one Furman Elite 15A PFi in my (much more simplistic) 5.1 system, it has functioned very well for me for a few years. I've got all my components piping-into the one Furman unit, including- Parasound Halo A51 amp
Marantz AV8802A processor
JL Audio F110 subwoofer
Pioneer Elite PDP-4280HD Kuro plasma flat screen

Can draw significant current running all components simultaneously, depending on content.


----------



## leo2498

I saw that you are selling your amps and speaker, what will be the next move for your set up?


----------



## Rod#S

Wow, you are really cleaning house. Since you are not selling your 800's and HTM2, unless you did that already are you downsizing your channel count?


----------



## G-Rex

Furman makes great power products. The engineer, Garth Powell, did amazing things while at Furman. He has since has moved on to AudioQuest. I use the Furman It-Reference 20i in my theater. 80 amps of power stored in the Power factor correction circuit. Good stuff...


----------



## thrang

Long night tonight - sold the 800's, 802's, and htm2d center... 803's , Fathom 113v2's, and Parasound JC-1's and an A-51 remain

Yes, a subtle change...

More later, but trying a JBL Synthesis system - 5 M2's, 2 SCL-4's, and 2 S2S-EX subwoofers. Crown Drive Core Network DCi amplifiers


----------



## TMcG

JBL Synthesis _AND _a Sony 5000ES laser 4K projector??? Are you adopting 40 year old dudes....uh....Dad????


----------



## Rod#S

thrang said:


> Long night tonight - sold the 800's, 802's, and htm2d center... 803's , Fathom 113v2's, and Parasound JC-1's and an A-51 remain
> 
> Yes, a subtle change...
> 
> More later, but trying a JBL Synthesis system - 5 M2's, 2 SCL-4's, and 2 S2S-EX subwoofers. Crown Drive Core Network DCi amplifiers


Wow, HUGE change, you are definitely embracing a true dedicated home theatre system vs the dual purpose. Are you going to get the Synthesis branded Trinnov Altitude32 with accompanying Synthesis EQ? You may as well


----------



## thrang

TMcG said:


> JBL Synthesis _AND _a Sony 5000ES laser 4K projector??? Are you adopting 40 year old dudes....uh....Dad????


My kids pay rent after a certain age, which increase every few birthdays - are you prepared????


----------



## citsur86

Just saw this thread for the first time. So awesome! This is my dream system haha


----------



## Rod#S

citsur86 said:


> Just saw this thread for the first time. So awesome! This is my dream system haha


Which version?  The what was or what will be. What you see in the pictures is now gone.


----------



## citsur86

Rod#S said:


> Which version?  The what was or what will be. What you see in the pictures is now gone.


Both! I'm a B&W fan myself - even though I use my system for 80% movies - 20% music, and I have a much lower line (600 series). More-so just the robustness of the system. I say this in the most non-creepy way possible but MAN would I like to watch a movie in there haha


----------



## Gooddoc

@thrang

I'm sure you will not regret this decision 

How did you arrive at the M2's? A very fine choice indeed


----------



## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Which version?  The what was or what will be. What you see in the pictures is now gone.


Haha...mostly... 803's and Fathoms still up for sale. A51 sold today so the JC-1's also still up.

Have to get a new carpet ordered soon, and decide on room orientation to build the screen wall. May keep it the way it it's on further reflection...not sure.

First order from Harman is in transit, second soon. But until the carpet is replaced, nothing gets installed...


----------



## thrang

Gooddoc said:


> @thrang
> 
> I'm sure you will not regret this decision
> 
> How did you arrive at the M2's? A very fine choice indeed


Well, adidino (my dealer) provided a great demo that's for sure...but more fundamentally, I wanted to try a system with more of a dedicated theater heritage, especially since I hadn't been listening to music as much in that room lately. Though I understand the M2's can be quite good for music as well.

As a tweaker, I wanted to try the digital parametric eq amps to specific speaker profiles, and the more slender design of the M2's lets me do a false wall with the woven screen, while the B&W's are far too large, and need more room behind them.

It could be a mistake, but I don't think so.


----------



## COACH2369

I am a huge JBL fan and I am looking forward to seeing how your upgrades work out.


----------



## thrang

COACH2369 said:


> I am a huge JBL fan and I am looking forward to seeing how your upgrades work out.


Yep, will post here of course and on the new JBL thread...


----------



## COACH2369

thrang said:


> Yep, will post here of course and on the new JBL thread...


Good deal.

I love how popular JBL has become on here in the last 1-2 years.

My system consists of the cinema gear: 3 x 4722N's and 8 x SCS8's. I went through A LOT of speakers that cost MUCH more than what I have now, but I couldn't be happier with how my system sounds.


----------



## Gooddoc

thrang said:


> Well, adidino (my dealer) provided a great demo that's for sure...but more fundamentally, I wanted to try a system with more of a dedicated theater heritage, especially since I hadn't been listening to music as much in that room lately. Though I understand the M2's can be quite good for music as well.
> 
> As a tweaker, I wanted to try the digital parametric eq amps to specific speaker profiles, and the more slender design of the M2's lets me do a false wall with the woven screen, while the B&W's are far too large, and need more room behind them.
> 
> It could be a mistake, but I don't think so.


More than quite good for music . I enjoy the M2's more for music than anything else. But you just can't predict any particular individuals preference, so maybe you'll hate them .
I see you're selling your B&W's, great speakers, GLWS.


----------



## thrang

COACH2369 said:


> Good deal.
> 
> I love how popular JBL has become on here in the last 1-2 years.
> 
> My system consists of the cinema gear: 3 x 4722N's and 8 x SCS8's. I went through A LOT of speakers that cost MUCH more than what I have now, but I couldn't be happier with how my system sounds.


That's great to hear...


----------



## audioguy

Your room was one of my favorite multi-purpose rooms. I think you will be more than pleased with your move to JBL. At the last CEDIA I attended, their demo was incredible, particularly the bass.

If I were starting from scratch, I think I would stick with the speakers I have but certainly all would go behind a much larger screen. Like you, my music listening has greatly diminished and music was the only reason I placed the L + R out in the room. But I won't be starting over, so other than trying to push the L + R closer to the front wall so those sitting on the outside seats don't have to stare at speakers, it will pretty much stay the same. ---- unless it doesn't. After all, this addiction hobby wouldn't be as much fun if we didn't change stuff one in a while [or more frequently].

Enjoy your new room.


----------



## Erniethebarkingcat

*Oh you had a long night?*



thrang said:


> Long night tonight - sold the 800's, 802's, and htm2d center... 803's , Fathom 113v2's, and Parasound JC-1's and an A-51 remain
> 
> Yes, a subtle change...
> 
> More later, but trying a JBL Synthesis system - 5 M2's, 2 SCL-4's, and 2 S2S-EX subwoofers. Crown Drive Core Network DCi amplifiers


You think YOU had a long night? I was the one who had to drive a thousand pounds of speakers home on 287 and then unload them!

Folks, happy to have found this thread and just want to mention that I bought thrang's "scraps". Couldn't have been more pleased with the overall transaction - ultra professional in every way - and every piece in his room is totally pristine. These speakers were all essentially mint.

Can't wait to follow this thread now to see how the heck he tops what he just dismantled.



.


----------



## thrang

audioguy said:


> Your room was one of my favorite multi-purpose rooms. I think you will be more than pleased with your move to JBL. At the last CEDIA I attended, their demo was incredible, particularly the bass.
> 
> If I were starting from scratch, I think I would stick with the speakers I have but certainly all would go behind a much larger screen. Like you, my music listening has greatly diminished and music was the only reason I placed the L + R out in the room. But I won't be starting over, so other than trying to push the L + R closer to the front wall so those sitting on the outside seats don't have to stare at speakers, it will pretty much stay the same. ---- unless it doesn't. After all, this addiction hobby wouldn't be as much fun if we didn't change stuff one in a while [or more frequently].
> 
> Enjoy your new room.


Thanks - yes, the well-worn phrase 'the journey is the reward' is a significant factor for me. But this is the first time I've change virtually everything, save source equipment, at the same time.

I am building a screen wall and have a Seymour woven AT screen on order. Since the wall will be 24-26 inches into the room, and thus closer, I'm dropping from a 12 to 11 foot wide 2.35 screen.


----------



## citsur86

thrang said:


> Thanks - yes, the well-worn phrase 'the journey is the reward' is a significant factor for me. But this is the first time I've change virtually everything, save source equipment, at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> I am building a screen wall and have a Seymour woven AT screen on order. Sine the wall will 24-26 inches into the room, and thus closer, I'm dropping from a 12 to 11 foot wide 2.35 screen.




I completely agree! I have just as much fun setting everything up and tweaking it as I do actually sitting down and listening to it!


----------



## thrang

Erniethebarkingcat said:


> You think YOU had a long night? I was the one who had to drive a thousand pounds of speakers home on 287 and then unload them!
> 
> Folks, happy to have found this thread and just want to mention that I bought thrang's "scraps". Couldn't have been more pleased with the overall transaction - ultra professional in every way - and every piece in his room is totally pristine. These speakers were all essentially mint.
> 
> Can't wait to follow this thread now to see how the heck he tops what he just dismantled.
> 
> 
> 
> .


 

Hey Danny good to see you drop in here. It was a pleasure to meet you and do business with you, and make a new hobbyist friend. I look forward to some photos once everything is set up

Of course, if you find room for the 803's and JL subs, they miss their brothers...


----------



## thrang

Finally updated the first post in this thread with a partial new equipment list, and a few new photos of the JBL setup...more to come...


----------



## COACH2369

Your new front sound stage looks amazing! I enjoy seeing another new JBL Pro member.

How much longer until your new screen and projector get installed?


----------



## thrang

COACH2369 said:


> Your new front sound stage looks amazing! I enjoy seeing another new JBL Pro member.
> 
> How much longer until your new screen and projector get installed?


Screen is actually in, it was just taken down to do some work on the wall and final cleaning of the speakers and carpet behind.

Projector ETA is still to be determined.


----------



## Wookii

thrang said:


> Screen is actually in, it was just taken down to do some work on the wall and final cleaning of the speakers and carpet behind.
> 
> Projector ETA is still to be determined.


Nice room, I bet those M2's rock!

How have you found the SCL4's? And I note you have installed them upside down, out of interest, what was the thinking behind that decision?


----------



## thrang

Wookii said:


> Nice room, I bet those M2's rock!
> 
> How have you found the SCL4's? And I note you have installed them upside down, out of interest, what was the thinking behind that decision?


SCL-4's have no "right" orientation...you install as your requirements dictate. In my case, I wanted the compression driver around ear height, and installing the other way would have put the woofer below the chair line...

And yes, the M2's are incredible speakers...thanks


----------



## COACH2369

thrang said:


> Screen is actually in, it was just taken down to do some work on the wall and final cleaning of the speakers and carpet behind.
> 
> Projector ETA is still to be determined.


Now that I look back at the pictures, I should have noticed that. 

Sorry about that. 

Everything looks great so far.


----------



## Wookii

thrang said:


> SCL-4's have no "right" orientation...you install as your requirements dictate. In my case, I wanted the compression driver around ear height, and installing the other way would have put the woofer below the chair line...
> 
> And yes, the M2's are incredible speakers...thanks


Thanks, I wasn't suggesting the orientation was at all wrong, I was just interested in the reasons for the orientation you chose, because I have to make a similar decision when I come to install mine later this month, so thanks for confirming.

Have you got the compression driver precisely at ear height then, or slightly above?


----------



## thrang

Wookii said:


> Thanks, I wasn't suggesting the orientation was at all wrong, I was just interested in the reasons for the orientation you chose, because I have to make a similar decision when I come to install mine later this month, so thanks for confirming.
> 
> Have you got the compression driver precisely at ear height then, or slightly above?


No worries...

Slightly above, maybe three/four inches...


----------



## thrang

*Preliminary comments on JBL M2/SCL-4/Crown DCi installation…*

For those that haven't followed this thread, I recently changed from an all B&W Diamond setup (800D2, 802D2, 803D2 and HTMD2) with dual JL Audio Fathom 113 v2 subwoofers and Parasound Halo mono block and multichannel amps.

It was a great setup in many ways, and the best I’ve owned to this point by far.

But for a few reasons, I decided to take the plunge to make a substantial change (less music listening in the theater, optimal market time to sell, and the hobbyist’s desire for trying something new…) So I spoke with my dealer, AudioXtream in NJ (Tony is the owner, adidino here on AVS), got a demo, and committed to the complete overhaul. This also gave me the opportunity to change out the lighter colored rug that had been in there since 1994 to a more appropriate darker set of tones.

Demo’s only get you to a point, as there is far more dissimilar between the demo setup and your own space than there is similar. So no matter how much due diligence you conduct, there is a certain level of a "bungee jump” feel when you go for it. Fortunately, in this case, the ride has been exhilarating.

I am experiencing far greater improvement over my prior setup than I hoped for or expected - and obviously, there is nothing slummy about what I owned prior! It is important to note that these comments are preliminary and focus on movie listening (and multichannel concert BD’s), not traditional two channel music to this point. It’s also important to note that I am now running three identical mains behind an AT screen vs two 800’s and an HTMD2 below a non AT screen, so there is a substantive difference there. The four in-ceiling speakers remain the same between both the old and new setups - KEF CI200rr-THX

Accounting for all that the best my objective mind can, one of the first things I noticed was how natural everything sounded, especially the quality of dialogue. Running the M2’s at full range, including the center, probably contributes a great deal to this, but the compression driver and waveguide are probably the larger difference. If there was a hint a nasally sound with the HTMD2, it is absent from the M2 - unless its in the recording. I cannot underestimate the importance of this naturalness - there is a real, almost a live quality of the presentation (presuming the material is well recorded)

The system is also incredibly detailed, revealing elements of soundtracks that I’ve simply not heard before. The subtlest footstep in Ratatoullie, the little twang of a bowstring when Jake snaps the string against his chest in Avatar (before jumping down into the leaves and trees), or wisp of wind in the Revenant. Listening to Peter Gabriel’s orchestral concert BD was especially telling in how much more character was revealed in every horn note or vibration of bow and string. It’s the kind of performance that actually gave me a Chris Matthew’s tingle up my leg more than once.

The system is also far more dynamic than before, and seems to play cleaner and more effortlessly throughout all volumes levels, but especially louder. No fatigue or harshness, something c.d.’s are sometimes known for. This is a very different beast. The transition from quiet to loud, especially articulated sounds such as punches, bullets, kick drums, and other types of impacts, is quite visceral. The Talking Heads Stop Making Sense concert BD is one of the best recorded concerts I’ve heard, and as busy of some of the tracks can get, you never hear the sounds run together or smear - you can pick out virtually everything.

Finally, the surround bubble - as good as it was before - is even more enveloping and convincing - there is more depth and breadth, not only on the front soundstage, but around the room. The atmospherics in The Revenant and Avatar are remarkable for example. Panning and dialogue placement is superb (I find a number of Pixar titles great tests of this, as small changes in character position are matched with the dialogue location from center, to center left, to center right, etc. I also find my KEF CI-200rr-THX ceiling speakers (configured and located as Top Front and Top Rear match well with the JBL’s. I sort of think there will always be some sonic differences, even with the same driver type, given the angle of incidence differences between elevation and bed speakers. Even so, playing the Atmos Demo disc, (which makes great use of panning on three or four of the tracks) presented a high degree of integrity as sounds passed overhead from left to right or front to back. Maybe I can do a little better up there, but I’m in no rush or sense any need to make a change.

Regarding the M2/SCL-4 blend, I need to listen to that aspect more, but from what I’ve experienced to date, the sonic characteristics are quite close, but not identical. To be fair, because of room configuration, my rears are probably 12-18 inches further apart than they probably should be, but overall, the integration is very believable and natural.

I still have more to do, especially fine tuning the EQ, especially the low end. There a million things one can do in the DCi amps, but what’s especially nice is the ability to use an internal EQ to fine tune each speakers response.But overall, LFE is startlingly deep and clean, and again, very dynamic and quick, and has already surpassed my prior setup.

More thoughts as time goes by, but wanted to get some early feedback posted...


----------



## Gooddoc

thrang said:


> I cannot underestimate the importance of this naturalness - there is a real, almost a live quality of the presentation (presuming the material is well recorded)......
> 
> ....The Talking Heads Stop Making Sense concert BD is one of the best recorded concerts I’ve heard, and as busy of some of the tracks can get, you never hear the sounds run together or smear - you can pick out virtually everything.


These are probably the two traits that separate the M2 from every other speaker I've personally heard. You refer to it as naturalness, and I typically refer to it as timbre accuracy, but same thing.


----------



## Franin

Looks good Thrang 


________________
Frank


----------



## thezaks

I'm really excited for you! I know you're just getting started on listening, so I'll be curious as to your opinion on the JL Audio subs vs. the JBL subs.

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## coolrda

thrang said:


> For those that haven't followed this thread, I recently changed from an all B&W Diamond setup (800D2, 802D2, 803D2 and HTMD2) with dual JL Audio Fathom 113 v2 subwoofers and Parasound Halo mono block and multichannel amps.
> 
> It was a great setup in many ways, and the best I’ve owned to this point by far.
> 
> But for a few reasons, I decided to take the plunge to make a substantial change (less music listening in the theater, optimal market time to sell, and the hobbyist’s desire for trying something new…) So I spoke with my dealer, AudioXtream in NJ (Tony is the owner, adidino here on AVS), got a demo, and committed to the complete overhaul. This also gave me the opportunity to change out the lighter colored rug that had been in there since 1994 to a more appropriate darker set of tones.
> 
> Demo’s only get you to a point, as there is far more dissimilar between the demo setup and your own space than there is similar. So no matter how much due diligence you conduct, there is a certain level of a "bungee jump” feel when you go for it. Fortunately, in this case, the ride has been exhilarating.
> 
> I am experiencing far greater improvement over my prior setup than I hoped for or expected - and obviously, there is nothing slummy about what I owned prior! It is important to note that these comments are preliminary and focus on movie listening (and multichannel concert BD’s), not traditional two channel music to this point. It’s also important to note that I am now running three identical mains behind an AT screen vs two 800’s and an HTMD2 below a non AT screen, so there is a substantive difference there. The four in-ceiling speakers remain the same between both the old and new setups - KEF CI200rr-THX
> 
> Accounting for all that the best my objective mind can, one of the first things I noticed was how natural everything sounded, especially the quality of dialogue. Running the M2’s at full range, including the center, probably contributes a great deal to this, but the compression driver and waveguide are probably the larger difference. If there was a hint a nasally sound with the HTMD2, it is absent from the M2 - unless its in the recording. I cannot underestimate the importance of this naturalness - there is a real, almost a live quality of the presentation (presuming the material is well recorded)
> 
> The system is also incredibly detailed, revealing elements of soundtracks that I’ve simply not heard before. The subtlest footstep in Ratatoullie, the little twang of a bowstring when Jake snaps the string against his chest in Avatar (before jumping down into the leaves and trees), or wisp of wind in the Revenant. Listening to Peter Gabriel’s orchestral concert BD was especially telling in how much more character was revealed in every horn note or vibration of bow and string. It’s the kind of performance that actually gave me a Chris Matthew’s tingle up my leg more than once.
> 
> The system is also far more dynamic than before, and seems to play cleaner and more effortlessly throughout all volumes levels, but especially louder. No fatigue or harshness, something c.d.’s are sometimes known for. This is a very different beast. The transition from quiet to loud, especially articulated sounds such as punches, bullets, kick drums, and other types of impacts, is quite visceral. The Talking Heads Stop Making Sense concert BD is one of the best recorded concerts I’ve heard, and as busy of some of the tracks can get, you never hear the sounds run together or smear - you can pick out virtually everything.
> 
> Finally, the surround bubble - as good as it was before - is even more enveloping and convincing - there is more depth and breadth, not only on the front soundstage, but around the room. The atmospherics in The Revenant and Avatar are remarkable for example. Panning and dialogue placement is superb (I find a number of Pixar titles great tests of this, as small changes in character position are matched with the dialogue location from center, to center left, to center right, etc. I also find my KEF CI-200rr-THX ceiling speakers (configured and located as Top Front and Top Rear match well with the JBL’s. I sort of think there will always be some sonic differences, even with the same driver type, given the angle of incidence differences between elevation and bed speakers. Even so, playing the Atmos Demo disc, (which makes great use of panning on three or four of the tracks) presented a high degree of integrity as sounds passed overhead from left to right or front to back. Maybe I can do a little better up there, but I’m in no rush or sense any need to make a change.
> 
> Regarding the M2/SCL-4 blend, I need to listen to that aspect more, but from what I’ve experienced to date, the sonic characteristics are quite close, but not identical. To be fair, because of room configuration, my rears are probably 12-18 inches further apart than they probably should be, but overall, the integration is very believable and natural.
> 
> I still have more to do, especially fine tuning the EQ, especially the low end. There a million things one can do in the DCi amps, but what’s especially nice is the ability to use an internal EQ to fine tune each speakers response.But overall, LFE is startlingly deep and clean, and again, very dynamic and quick, and has already surpassed my prior setup.
> 
> More thoughts as time goes by, but wanted to get some early feedback posted...


I got goosebumps just reading your review. Saweet!


----------



## SJHT

thrang said:


> Hadn't posted anything about the family room setup, but did a few upgrades this week, partly because the Integra 20.4 networking shat the bed, and had an issue with one of the B&W M1 speakers. So replaced the receiver with a Marantz, and took my KEF LS-50's which were sitting idle in my office, put them to use in the family room, and matched center and surrounds...
> 
> Equipment List
> 
> Marantz NR1506
> KEF LS-50 (x5)
> B&W ASW608 subwoofer
> Dune Media Player
> DirecTV, TiVo, AppleTV (shared from Octava 4x4 whole home HDMI/ethernet matrix switch)
> Roomie Remote/iPad 2
> Bello's SP 300 speaker stands
> B-Tech BT77 side clamping speaker stands


Your theater setup is great, but back in your family room, what is the furniture you have for the TV setup? Thanks. SJ


----------



## thrang

SJHT said:


> Your theater setup is great, but back in your family room, what is the furniture you have for the TV setup? Thanks. SJ


Ikea!

It is the Besta line, but as usual, they've changed things - I don't see the back panel available anymore, and not sure the gloss doors are available either...


----------



## JonasHansen

Looks amazing !Lookign forward to seeing the completed version!

Any reason you chose the S2S-EX and not S1S-EX or SUB18?

EDIT: Another question: Why did you go with multiple 2x600w amps and not the 8x600w? (I'm asking because I am planning on what amps I should use with the M2 myself and love the simåplicity of the 8-channel version)


----------



## abinav555

Hey thrang,
Sweet setup. I'm looking at getting M2s for LCR,4xs4s subs and Revel surrounds + atmos. Powered by 4xsda-4600, 1xsda-8300.
My question is, is it really necessary to get the sdec ? My dealer says it's not truly a sysnthesis system without an sdec. Can you help me out with this ?

Also can i use crown dci 8/300 and 4/600 instead of the SDAs ? Will they be a more cost wffective option or the same price


----------



## kevon27

Video of your old system..


----------



## thrang

JonasHansen said:


> Looks amazing !Lookign forward to seeing the completed version!
> 
> Any reason you chose the S2S-EX and not S1S-EX or SUB18?
> 
> EDIT: Another question: Why did you go with multiple 2x600w amps and not the 8x600w? (I'm asking because I am planning on what amps I should use with the M2 myself and love the simåplicity of the 8-channel version)


Jeez, did not get notified on some of these last posts....


I thought dual 15's were more than sufficient, and the S2S is the current model.

The 2x600's are each bi-amping the M2's and I simply wanted to go with a mono block approach for the mains and surrounds. Less of a single point of failure as well with few multichannel amps.


----------



## thrang

abinav555 said:


> Hey thrang,
> Sweet setup. I'm looking at getting M2s for LCR,4xs4s subs and Revel surrounds + atmos. Powered by 4xsda-4600, 1xsda-8300.
> My question is, is it really necessary to get the sdec ? My dealer says it's not truly a sysnthesis system without an sdec. Can you help me out with this ?
> 
> Also can i use crown dci 8/300 and 4/600 instead of the SDAs ? Will they be a more cost wffective option or the same price


As long as you're using the Crown amps that allow you to load the speaker profiles, such as the DCi's, it will work. Yes, its not a true Sythnesis system short of adding their processing and calibration, but it all depends on investment and and how much you want to have your hands in the pot. I didn't want to invest in a turnkey system both financially and as a hobbyist.

I presume the SDA's are more money - not sure what they provide qualitatively over the DCi's as I've never really explored comparing. Perhaps very little...


----------



## thrang

kevon27 said:


> Video of your old system.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8dt1M50YKk


Oh man, lol, I feel mildly violated....!

Well, it looks quite different now....do need to take some new photos over the Christmas break and update things here...


----------



## kevon27

thrang said:


> Oh man, lol, I feel mildly violated....!
> 
> Well, it looks quite different now....do need to take some new photos over the Christmas break and update things here...


Can I request a video along with the photos? I think this WYSC section needs more videos of people theaters.


----------



## thrang

kevon27 said:


> Can I request a video along with the photos? I think this WYSC section needs more videos of people theaters.


Probably too complicated to do well because of lighting, but I'll explore...


----------



## thrang

Finally got around to updating the first post of this thread with new photos of the latest revision of the theater.


----------



## thezaks

Thanks for the update - looks outstanding! How is the sound? How does it compare to what you had previously? Interesting that you have an Anthem AVM 60, after all of the other surround processors that you had tried. Are you still experimenting with surround processors?

Dave


----------



## thrang

thezaks said:


> Thanks for the update - looks outstanding! How is the sound? How does it compare to what you had previously? Interesting that you have an Anthem AVM 60, after all of the other surround processors that you had tried. Are you still experimenting with surround processors?
> 
> Dave


Sounds fantastic - needed to rethink sound treatments with the orientation switch, but gave me the opportunity to dress the room a bit with the art panels - also did some large double stacked corner bass traps in three of the four corners (fourth is where the entranceway is)

I will probably move to a different processor in the future (undecided), but using the Crown amps lets me tailor the sound separate from the processor abilities (EQ/precise distances), so thats a big advantage to the overall sound.

Absolutely enjoy the JBL's over the Diamonds. Very balanced, dynamic, with great imaging and soundstage.


----------



## Ted C

Great job! Its very nice isn't it You enjoying the SCL4's? Any issue "edge blending" the 4's with the 708's up top?


----------



## thrang

Ted C said:


> Great job! Its very nice isn't it You enjoying the SCL4's? Any issue "edge blending" the 4's with the 708's up top?


Enjoying the SCL4's much more now than at first - learning more about the Crown EQ system is one reason, the room orientation is another. Nothing beats M2's as surrounds, but that doesn't work in this layout - 

Not sure when you mean by edge blending, but the foundation and elevation layers are extremely well integrated if that's what you're asking


----------



## Ted C

Yes that's what I meant, the ability for the SCL's to integrate seamlessly to the 708's. The M2 are indeed amazing! Albeit I wouldn't want to be any closer than 9' to them in a HT environment...


----------



## Eric Hamilton

Looks good!


----------



## audioguy

WOW! Equipment notwithstanding, that is quite the transformation. Looks nothing like your last space. Your last space (which I always thought was gorgeous) gave me the feel of a normal living space serving high end home theater duties. This space looks like a high end home theater. VERY well done. 

Love the artwork which I assume also doubles as acoustic treatment. With the all JBL speakers and enough amp power to light up a good portion of North America, I am sure it sounds incredible ---- and looks incredible with your new projector.

Congrats. Well done!!!!


----------



## thrang

audioguy said:


> WOW! Equipment notwithstanding, that is quite the transformation. Looks nothing like your last space. Your last space (which I always thought was gorgeous) gave me the feel of a normal living space serving high end home theater duties. This space looks like a high end home theater. VERY well done.
> 
> Love the artwork which I assume also doubles as acoustic treatment. With the all JBL speakers and enough amp power to light up a good portion of North America, I am sure it sounds incredible ---- and looks incredible with your new projector.
> 
> Congrats. Well done!!!!


 @audioguy

Thanks....the only thing left to toy with is surround processor...the SDP75 intrigues me....but beyond that, barring and\y equipment failures, the turnover phase is mostly done. I don’t see moving from the M2’s, Crown amps, Sony 5000 etc for some time. Sound and image are always impressive (short of crappy source material..)

Yes the panels are from ATS Acousstics...they did a great job and fast turnaround...


----------



## audioguy

thrang said:


> the only thing left to toy with is surround processor...the SDP75 intrigues me....but beyond that, barring and\y equipment failures, the turnover phase is mostly done. I don’t see moving from the M2’s, Crown amps, Sony 5000 etc *for some time*. Sound and image are always impressive (short of crappy source material..)


Define "some time".  I have had to eat those words way too often, though I have said them fairly recently myself. The things in my theater I KNOW won't change are the speakers (less ceiling speakers which are getting changed next month), amps, processor, room treatment, room decor. Source components are still subject to change given the way the technology continues to improve. 

I just finished a major cosmetic makeover in my room but no equipment changed.

(Check back with me in a year!!!)


----------



## thrang

audioguy said:


> Define "some time".  I have had to eat those words way too often, though I have said them fairly recently myself. The things in my theater I KNOW won't change are the speakers (less ceiling speakers which are getting changed next month), amps, processor, room treatment, room decor. Source components are still subject to change given the way the technology continues to improve.
> 
> I just finished a major cosmetic makeover in my room but no equipment changed.
> 
> (Check back with me in a year!!!)


Excelpt I'm getting tired lifting all this crap every time there is a change


----------



## audioguy

thrang said:


> Excelpt I'm getting tired lifting all this crap every time there is a change


And that is what convinced me to keep the status quo for 95% of what is installed. My next major purchase will be a PJ that has most of the abilities of the new $35,000 laser JVC but with better blacks and an MSRP of about $7000. Maybe 3 to 4 years at most.


----------



## wse

thrang said:


> *4/29/17 Revision Photos*
> 
> 3 - JBL Synthesis M2 speakers (LCR)
> 4 - JBL Sythesis SCL-4 in wall speakers (side and rear)
> 2 - JBL S2X passive subwoofers
> 4 - JBL LSR708i ceiling speakers
> Crown DCI Network Amplifiers
> _3 - 600 bi-amped
> 8 - 300 watt
> 1 - two channel 2450 watt for subs_​Seymour AV 4k UF material
> Anthem AVM60
> Sony VPL-VW5000es projector
> Lumagen Pro 4k processor
> Tivo
> PS4
> Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Player
> Dune Solo 4k
> Synology 20 TB NAS
> ATS Acoustic Art Fabric Panels
> 
> 
> Room has about 5% left to clean up/patch/paint, but though I would update this thread since it's been a while...
> 
> Major change was switching the axis of the room to the long axis from the short, and using and adjacent room for the projector. Also moved to a comfortable sectional sofa with two chaises rather than dedicated theater seats - family likes this better, as do I.
> 
> The porthole is not complete on the projector side, which is why the interior black out both is just taped down. Wiring cleanup never seems to happen, but that's still required.


Fantastic, interesting especially coming from B&W 800D2! Why not use 708P or 705P as surround and on the ceiling?


----------



## thrang

wse said:


> Fantastic, interesting especially coming from B&W 800D2! Why not use 708P or 705P as surround and on the ceiling?


No benefit to do so...I was already wired passively, and what about power outlets? Much better control via the Crown amps as well


----------



## shivaji

Great looking and cozy room. impressive to see that big stack of Crowns and the M2's behind the screen. Also like that you chose a nice comfy couch for viewing. Nice!


----------



## JonasHansen

Looking good! Are you having any issues with the M2's being placed so close to the side-walls? How far are they placed from it?


----------



## thrang

The M2's that are in use are behind the screen...the ones you see on either side of the screen are not in use- former surrounds that are being sold because they do not fit with the room reorientation...


----------



## thrang

shivaji said:


> Great looking and cozy room. impressive to see that big stack of Crowns and the M2's behind the screen. Also like that you chose a nice comfy couch for viewing. Nice!


My wife had her foot down for years to make the orientation change, since it required putting the screen wall in front of three windows (which were always closed anyway). She finally agreed, and ironically, she uses the room now more than ever...


----------



## citsur86

coolrda said:


> I got goosebumps just reading your review. Saweet!


I completely agree with you @coolrda. 
@thrang Your review had the same effect on me, (in addition to making me VERY envious!) I'm assuming you are some type of writer/author since you were able to articulate your sentiments perfectly. I'm happy you are loving your new setup. If someone asks me, and they often do, what my end goal as far as Home Theater looks like, I pull up photos of your setup(s), old and new. I would love to be able to screen a movie in there with ya. Have you tried Interstellar yet? For some reason I really gravitate to the sound track in that movie. Surprisingly, The Arrival is also one of my more recent favorites. Wish you all the best with it and I'm definitely a fan!


----------



## thrang

citsur86 said:


> I completely agree with you @coolrda.
> 
> @thrang Your review had the same effect on me, (in addition to making me VERY envious!) I'm assuming you are some type of writer/author since you were able to articulate your sentiments perfectly. I'm happy you are loving your new setup. If someone asks me, and they often do, what my end goal as far as Home Theater looks like, I pull up photos of your setup(s), old and new. I would love to be able to screen a movie in there with ya. Have you tried Interstellar yet? For some reason I really gravitate to the sound track in that movie. Surprisingly, The Arrival is also one of my more recent favorites. Wish you all the best with it and I'm definitely a fan!


Thanks - yes, I do have a writing background (marketing, journalism, and an off-the-cliff attempt at screenwriting in my youth...)

Yes, I'm in north Jersey so perhaps one weekend you can stop up.

I haven't tried Interstellar with this new room setup yet...but good idea...


----------



## thrang

*Updated Family Room*

We've done a lot of changes inside the home, and the family room was re-done, including the AV system. speakers are now JBL Arena's...


----------



## JonasHansen

thrang said:


> The M2's that are in use are behind the screen...the ones you see on either side of the screen are not in use- former surrounds that are being sold because they do not fit with the room reorientation...


Ah, that makes sense. How much space do you have between your M2s behind the screen? (I.e. distance between the two enclosures)


----------



## thrang

JonasHansen said:


> Ah, that makes sense. How much space do you have between your M2s behind the screen? (I.e. distance between the two enclosures)


The M2 cabinets are about 5 1/2' apart center to center...subs are between the left/center and right/center. (despite the LED's, the theater _does not_ hop up and down while slowly cruising the street...)


----------



## Sal1950

Home theater done right! 
WOW, that M2 based rig is beyond incredible. I can only imagine how exciting it must sound.
The family room rig is no slouch either.
Your a lucky man.


----------



## LJG

Sal1950 said:


> Home theater done right!
> WOW, that M2 based rig is beyond incredible. I can only imagine how exciting it must sound.
> The family room rig is no slouch either.
> Your a lucky man.


Hi Gregg:

Your theater looks great!!! I assume the reason you went 708's for ceilings is because your ceiling is drop tiles and the SCL in walls won't work there?


----------



## thrang

LJG said:


> Hi Gregg:
> 
> Your theater looks great!!! I assume the reason you went 708's for ceilings is because your ceiling is drop tiles and the SCL in walls won't work there?


Sort of, yes....I mean I could have probably made th SCL's work with some effort (the Sheetrock ceiling is about 7" above the drop ceiling), but why bother since I have the height - and the timbre match is better with the M2's I think - not my a lot, but still...

But also the scl driver would have been too off axis


----------



## Barrybud

How long ago did you replace the MX151 and move onto the AVM60? What encouraged the change? I was considering one of the macs as I will never have room for more then a 5.1 system. I have been reading through your MX151 thread even though its several years old now.


----------



## thrang

Barrybud said:


> How long ago did you replace the MX151 and move onto the AVM60? What encouraged the change? I was considering one of the macs as I will never have room for more then a 5.1 system. I have been reading through your MX151 thread even though its several years old now.




About 5 months ago - transition move, sniffing around as Cedia is now here...


----------



## Kain

thrang,

Awesome setup! 

Have a question though...

What ceiling mounts are you using for your four 708i speakers? I have a concrete ceiling and might be installing four 708i speakers on the ceiling for Atmos/DTS:X. Any recommendations for ceiling mounts for the 708i that can be installed on a concrete ceiling? I am assuming I'll have to use concrete anchors?


----------



## thrang

Kain said:


> thrang,
> 
> Awesome setup!
> 
> Have a question though...
> 
> What ceiling mounts are you using for your four 708i speakers? I have a concrete ceiling and might be installing four 708i speakers on the ceiling for Atmos/DTS:X. Any recommendations for ceiling mounts for the 708i that can be installed on a concrete ceiling? I am assuming I'll have to use concrete anchors?


The mounts are Allen Products MM-018-MultiMounts
http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdf/mm-018.pdf

How to attach to a concrete ceiling is something I couldn't comment on with certainty - perhaps 4 concrete anchors into 12/14 inch square, 1" thick wood plate, and then lag bolts through the Allen mounts to the wood plate.


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## Kain

thrang said:


> The mounts are Allen Products MM-008-CM-BT: MultiMounts
> 
> How to attach to a concrete ceiling is something I couldn't comment on with certainty - perhaps 4 concrete anchors into 12/14 inch square, 1" thick wood plate, and then lag bolts through the Allen mounts to the wood plate.


Thanks.

Is this the mount you are using?

http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdfs/MM-008-CM.html

If so, that mount is rated for 15 lbs/7 kg but 708i is 25.2 lbs/11.5 kg. No worries there?

Lastly, do the mounting holes of the mount line-up with the mounting holes of the 708i or is drilling required?

Sorry for all the questions!


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## thrang

Kain said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Is this the mount you are using?
> 
> http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdfs/MM-008-CM.html
> 
> If so, that mount is rated for 15 lbs/7 kg but 708i is 25.2 lbs/11.5 kg. No worries there?
> 
> Lastly, do the mounting holes of the mount line-up with the mounting holes of the 708i or is drilling required?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions!


Sorry, typo: these -

http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdf/mm-018.pdf

This mount is recommended by Harman, and align with the 708 screw holes.


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## kevinlg

This makes me happy that such a high tier theater is ran by the same processor I use myself. I couldn't find another pre/pro that made sense unless I jumped up to Datasat.

Great system and looks really cozy.


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## Kain

thrang said:


> Sorry, typo: these -
> 
> http://www.adapttechgroup.com/pdf/mm-018.pdf
> 
> This mount is recommended by Harman, and align with the 708 screw holes.


Thanks.

Another quick question if you don't mind...

How long is the pipe on the ceiling mount for the four ceiling 708i speakers? Any idea how long the minimum length of the pipe should be to mount the ceiling mount directly to a concrete ceiling while having enough clearance for the 708i from the ceiling?


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## stefanop

Hello thrang,

your HT is awesome, and the Crown rack is impressive 
How far is your listening position from the speakers? And, how did you set the X-Over for the M2? Did you do it by yourself or with a JBL/Crown dealer?
I'm interested in buying M2 for LCR, too. I'd pair them with a couple of SDA 4600 (in Italy I can't find Crown amplifiers) but I don't know how to set the right X-Over parameters. JBL dealer suggest SDEC but I'd like to spare money and have processing in the amps, so I can still use the MX-121 for processing and in a not so near future upgrade to an SDP-75.


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## thrang

Kain said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Another quick question if you don't mind...
> 
> How long is the pipe on the ceiling mount for the four ceiling 708i speakers? Any idea how long the minimum length of the pipe should be to mount the ceiling mount directly to a concrete ceiling while having enough clearance for the 708i from the ceiling?


This depends a bit what your threading the pipe into - (how deep the threaded insert is, if there is an offset of the insert away from the ceiling)

Because of the bracket design, the armature is close to the height of the speaker, so you need very little additional pipe to clear the ceiling - three inches maybe? If you want to extend the the speaker a little lower, you need to go longer. Mine are about 7 inches, but I have a suspended ceiling that I have to pass through to attached to the real ceiling above...


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## thrang

stefanop said:


> Hello thrang,
> 
> your HT is awesome, and the Crown rack is impressive
> How far is your listening position from the speakers? And, how did you set the X-Over for the M2? Did you do it by yourself or with a JBL/Crown dealer?
> I'm interested in buying M2 for LCR, too. I'd pair them with a couple of SDA 4600 (in Italy I can't find Crown amplifiers) but I don't know how to set the right X-Over parameters. JBL dealer suggest SDEC but I'd like to spare money and have processing in the amps, so I can still use the MX-121 for processing and in a not so near future upgrade to an SDP-75.


I'm about 12.5/13 feet from the mains behind the screen.

I use the M2 tuning file which sets the parameters for the bi-amplification. It's automatic.


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## thrang

Slowly getting the processor/source rack organized...bit more to do...


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## WestCoastD

thrang said:


> The M2 cabinets are about 5 1/2' apart center to center...subs are between the left/center and right/center. (despite the LED's, the theater _does not_ hop up and down while slowly cruising the street...)


crazy set-up, incredible! Like going to an actual theater. Naturally, my next question would be: how is sound quality comparison vs. previous Marantz/B&W configuration for music?


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## thrang

WestCoastD said:


> crazy set-up, incredible! Like going to an actual theater. Naturally, my next question would be: how is sound quality comparison vs. previous Marantz/B&W configuration for music?


And unnaturally, my answer, believe it or not, is I've not listened to a single two channel recording since the makeover...I've listening to some multichannel blu rays (Peter Gabriel New Blood for example, and Talking Heads Stop Making Sense) and they are incredibly good....but have not popped a CD in yet!


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## WestCoastD

thrang said:


> And unnaturally, my answer, believe it or not, is I've not listened to a single two channel recording since the makeover...I've listening to some multichannel blu rays (Peter Gabriel New Bllood for example, and Talking Heads Stop Making Sense) and they are incredibly good....but have not popped a CD in yet!


Interesting, I see. I ask primarily with curiosity in regards to how resolute the JBL tweeter's are vs. B&W diamond tweeters. And mid-bass.


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## stefanop

thrang said:


> I'm about 12.5/13 feet from the mains behind the screen.
> 
> I use the M2 tuning file which sets the parameters for the bi-amplification. It's automatic.


Thank you thrang, I googled for M2 tuning file and I've found all relative instructions in JBLPRO site. It seems an easy procedure. I hope it'll be, when I'll buy the amps.
I've got another question looking at your rack: how do you remotely turn on-off all those amplifiers? It's like old-school mode: 5V/12V DC in a jack and then Daisy-chain or is it different? I've read the instruction of the 4/600n but it only talks of AUX port and how to remotely turn-off shortcircuiting two pins. No mention to remote ON.


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## thrang

stefanop said:


> Thank you thrang, I googled for M2 tuning file and I've found all relative instructions in JBLPRO site. It seems an easy procedure. I hope it'll be, when I'll buy the amps.
> I've got another question looking at your rack: how do you remotely turn on-off all those amplifiers? It's like old-school mode: 5V/12V DC in a jack and then Daisy-chain or is it different? I've read the instruction of the 4/600n but it only talks of AUX port and how to remotely turn-off shortcircuiting two pins. No mention to remote ON.


I use a global cache IP relay devices to trigger open/close from my RTI controller

Two wire daisy changed from relay through each amp

It’s been a while so I don’t recall if there was a software toggle I needed to enable...


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## stefanop

thrang said:


> I use a global cache IP relay devices to trigger open/close from my RTI controller
> 
> Two wire daisy changed from relay through each amp
> 
> It’s been a while so I don’t recall if there was a software toggle I needed to enable...


Damn! Mmmh...Sorry! ...I hoped for a more easy way to go. Thank you very much for your support! :smile:
I want to follow your path, actually not going for a full Synthesis certification. M2+S2SEX+SCL3+CROWN/SDA and M2 software profile together with a McIntosh Processor.

Have a nice weekend


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## thrang

stefanop said:


> Damn! Mmmh...Sorry! ...I hoped for a more easy way to go. Thank you very much for your support! :smile:
> I want to follow your path, actually not going for a full Synthesis certification. M2+S2SEX+SCL3+CROWN/SDA and M2 software profile together with a McIntosh Processor.
> 
> Have a nice weekend


The wiring is not really hard - if you are not using a control system you could go low tech and wire a simple toggle switch to open or close the circuit...


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## stefanop

thrang said:


> The wiring is not really hard - if you are not using a control system you could go low tech and wire a simple toggle switch to open or close the circuit...


Thank you thrang!

If you can, please tell me if I'm wrong or not: you first turn on manually every single amplifier (first time ever), then you connect aux port to a relay Normally Closed and all the amplifiers go in standby, when you start up your A/V system the relay closes otherwise (normally open) and all the amplifiers come to live again. Do they switch out of standby all together? Is there a bump for the big amount of inrush current?


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## thrang

Spent some time working with phase and PEQ in the Crown DCi amps...after a while, got here:









REW - No Smoothing

A few more tweaks:











And the final Quick Measure in Anthem ARC (pre-calibration):










Not bad at all!


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## stefanop

thrang said:


> Spent some time working with phase and PEQ in the Crown DCi amps...after a while, got here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REW - No Smoothing
> 
> A few more tweaks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the final Quick Measure in Anthem ARC (pre-calibration):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not bad at all!


   a straight line!!!


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## thrang

Trinnov 16 shipping, hoping to see it by end of next week...


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## COACH2369

Whoo hoo!

Did you add more speakers too?


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## thrang

COACH2369 said:


> Whoo hoo!
> 
> Did you add more speakers too?


no not at this time...


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## COACH2369

thrang said:


> no not at this time...


Gotcha. Your room is fantastic and I recently jumped into the Synthesis/Pro speakers with some 708p's. They replaced my 4722's and I was SHOCKED how well they do, so I can only imagine how those M2's sound.


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## Rod#S

I haven't been here in a while, I love what you have done to the room and can see you are enjoying the new gear. For your NAS, are you ripping physical DVD/Blu-Ray/4K discs to it or do you just start with digital only copies? I would really like to rip all of my movies but don't know what the best software is to do that and I'd like to ensure I get all features on the discs to carry over such as the bonus features, audio commentaries etc.


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## thrang

Rod#S said:


> I haven't been here in a while, I love what you have done to the room and can see you are enjoying the new gear. For your NAS, are you ripping physical DVD/Blu-Ray/4K discs to it or do you just start with digital only copies? I would really like to rip all of my movies but don't know what the best software is to do that and I'd like to ensure I get all features on the discs to carry over such as the bonus features, audio commentaries etc.


Hi Rod


I'm ripping to ISO from my purchased discs. The challenge at the moment, for UHD, is complete menu support. The closes I see is the Zidoo x9s media player, which does disp;lay menus for a lot of UHD's but not all yet.


For Blu Ray, the Dune or almost any other player will be fine as long as it states Blu Ray menu and iso support


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## Rod#S

Wow, I'm so far out of touch on this. So when you say Zidoo x9s and Dune are these software applications that do the ripping or are these simply media players for playing back the files after they have been ripped?


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## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Wow, I'm so far out of touch on this. So when you say Zidoo x9s and Dune are these software applications that do the ripping or are these simply media players for playing back the files after they have been ripped?


Those are hardware media players

Ripping is done by Anydvd...


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## Rod#S

Ah interesting, actually hardware players, so how do they connect to the projector and SSP, USB or HDMI? I assume they must be network enabled in order to grab the movie files from your NAS.


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## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Ah interesting, actually hardware players, so how do they connect to the projector and SSP, USB or HDMI? I assume they must be network enabled in order to grab the movie files from your NAS.


Yess, HDMI, just like a disc player. My files are stored on a NAS, though most have local storage options as well for more limited capacity requirements.


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## Rod#S

Cool. I'll have to check them out. So for the ripping process, is getting this AnyDVD software all that is needed or is other software necessary as well? I assume the software isn't free?


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## thrang

Rod#S said:


> Cool. I'll have to check them out. So for the ripping process, is getting this AnyDVD software all that is needed or is other software necessary as well? I assume the software isn't free?


For ripping, that's all that's required, and correct, it is not free...


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## Rod#S

Thanks


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## Scott-C

Gorgeous room/setup, Thrang! Impressive equipment, too. It must rock in there.


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## thrang

Been a while, as there's not much that's been changed. Did take down the 708's and CI2000 elevation speakers, and installed 4x SCS12 and 2x SCS8 for the tops - they are working out great... no chance to update the first post photos yet, but here are a few showing the new setup:



















With some mild EQ and after Trinnov Optimizer was run, they blend in seamlessly with the M2/SCL's - atmospherics are clearly more spacious than the 708's, and deliver great output and dynamics. The 708's are _fantastic_ speakers, but I don't know that in my setup (with the CD quite close to ceiling) that they were the best application for Atmos/DTS:X. With these, the coaxial design puts the CD several inches further from the ceiling so there is likely less reflection interference.


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## Kain

@thrang

I see you are using two subwoofers located upfront. How do you find the bass in the room with two subwoofers located upfront? Do you get more than enough bass SPL and even response over all the seats?


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## thrang

Kain said:


> @thrang
> 
> I see you are using two subwoofers located upfront. How do you find the bass in the room with two subwoofers located upfront? Do you get more than enough bass SPL and even response over all the seats?


It's relatively uniform across all the seats, though the second seat is the money seat. Both subs are equidistant from the sidewalls and to the center of the seating, and the room is symmetrical, so that, plus some coarse EQ in the DCIn amps and then Trinnov (it is treated as a single sub) seems to provide prodigious and well defined bass.


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## CptSpig

thrang said:


> It's relatively uniform across all the seats, though the second seat is the money seat. Both subs are equidistant from the sidewalls and to the center of the seating, and the room is symmetrical, so that, plus some coarse EQ in the DCIn amps and then Trinnov (it is treated as a single sub) seems to provide prodigious and well defined bass.


I totally agree with your assessment of the S2S-EX subs. I also have two of these subs upfront with 708i LCR's equidistant form the side walls and they calibrate amazingly well. All I have are two large back wall bass traps along with corner traps.


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## rossandwendy

@thrang Totally love your room! It has an artistic feel and exudes relaxed comfort. The movie scenes on the wall, are those big canvas prints?

Cheers,
Ross


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## thrang

rossandwendy said:


> @thrang Totally love your room! It has an artistic feel and exudes relaxed comfort. The movie scenes on the wall, are those big canvas prints?
> 
> Cheers,
> Ross


Thanks. The are fabric printed sound panels to reduce reflections


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## thrang

wow, didn't realize how long its been since I've updated this thread... I guess I've been so damn pleased, not much has changed in almost two years...

However...

This












and six of these










should be in hand in the next few weeks (fingers crossed)


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## ChopShop1

thrang said:


> wow, didn't realize how long its been since I've updated this thread... I guess I've been so damn pleased, not much has changed in almost two years...
> 
> However...
> 
> This
> 
> View attachment 3206235
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and six of these
> View attachment 3206237
> 
> 
> 
> should be in hand in the next few weeks (fingers crossed)


Great setup! Curious if you got the scl-5 installed and how you like them compared to the 708i and then SCS8 you had. I just grabbed a trio of M2s for the new room and will be making the surround and overhead decisions next.


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## thrang

Two Amplitude 16's on order, to replace the Crown's... hopefully next week or so... They seem to be popular!


----------

