# Just bought a Bose CineMate Series II ... did I make a mistake?



## AudioDummy

As my name suggests, I'm quite the novice when it comes to all things audio.....


Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.


I never in my life purchased a speaker, never was a big music person, and always settled for the built-in tv speakers...


Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.



Now, please understand, it's hard for me to distinguish quality - certainly, my initial reaction of the system is that it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is overpriced at 599....


As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.


Normally, I research and then buy, this time my impulse got the best of me...


If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... your help would be great.


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## AudioDummy

Was unable to paste the url (need 3 posts) ..


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## AudioDummy

last time I do this...


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## AudioDummy

 http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...1f984ab25den02


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## XEagleDriver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioDummy* /forum/post/18425869
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.
> 
> 
> Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had *a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not* ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.
> 
> 
> 
> . . . it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is *overpriced at $599*....
> 
> 
> As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.
> 
> 
> Normally, I research and then buy, this time my *impulse got the best of me*...
> 
> 
> If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... you're help would be great.



AD,


Welcome to the forum!


You are definitely self aware, if not experienced as an audio consumer.


You are exactly right on your points above;

a) *You helped pay for the fancy display,* and received the impression of quality instead of actual audio quality in return!


b) *$599 was over priced* for both the Cinemate system (CNET Reviews shows selling price range of $455 - $499) and what you received from Bose.

See http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-spe...=mncolBtm;rnav 


c) *Impulse did get the better of you* and is a killer for a purchase with so many better marketplace options.

*If you can return it either without or with an acceptable re-stocking fee, I would do so and start the process over--Research, Decide, then Buy* like you siad you normally do!


*Why not keep the Bose? Here are some facts:*

1) For $600, you got a mediocre 2.1 system, but that same $600 can buy a much more capable 2.1 system.

A truely "capable" 2.1 system (receiver, 2 speakers and subwoofer) is a great way to start your audio journey.


2) The Bose speakers have 2" drivers--those are toys. Instead, look for speakers with at least 4" drivers, as a very minimum, to be able to cover enough low frequency to meet the subwoofer's high frequency and not leave a gap in the sound reproduction.


3) The Bose sub has only a 5" driver, this is not an actual subwoofer, it also is a toy--many regular speakers have 5.25" drivers.


*This forum, and others like it, is a great place to read up on available equipment options and solicit advice on how to best spend your $600.*

*Just one quick example system within your budget with much more capability would be:*

- A pair of *PSB B-15* speakers for about *$250*.

See https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm 

- A *Yamaha RX-V365* receiver for about *$190*

See http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...amaha-rxv365bl 

- A *Dayton SUB-100* HT Series, 10", 125 Watt, Subwoofer for about *$135*

See http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-633 


That totals $575 delivered to your door!


The example system also has growth potential, if you want to expand at some future point into a 5.1 home theater system, it can. The Bose does not have that potential, you would have to replace it!


The example system would blow the Bose Cinemate away, and I am not saying it is a be-all, end-all system in your price range--just one I threw together from previous forum reading and a bit of internet searching!



Good Luck,

XEagleDriver


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## crazyrob425

The better puchase would have the Onkyo HT-S6200 where you can get the 7.1 htib which will yeild amazing sound must better than the bose. You can even just run it as a 3.1 set-up with the front left and right, center.



If you just want a 2.1 or 3.1 speaker set-up where you don't have to run wires to the rear of the room let us know


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## AudioDummy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> AD,
> 
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> 
> You are definitely self aware, if not experienced as an audio consumer.



Thank you XEagleDriver for your detailed reply... very appreciated!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b) *$599 was over priced* for both the Cinemate system (CNET Reviews shows selling price range of $455 - $499) and what you received from Bose.
> 
> See http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-spe...=mncolBtm;rnav



I'm not sure if this will change your opinion or not, but the cnet link you provided is *not* the same model that I purchased. The starting price for the model I purchased is equivalent to the price I paid ($599).


Here is the accurate link to cnet:

http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-spe....html?tag=also 



Has your opinion changed with the actual model that I purchased?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> 
> *If you can return it either without or with an acceptable re-stocking fee, I would do so and start the process over--Research, Decide, then Buy* like you siad you normally do!



Yes, I can return for a full refund for up-to 30 days... It's normally not my thing to buy and return, but like I said, I normally don't buy on impulse.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The Bose sub has only a 5" driver, this is not an actual subwoofer, it also is a toy--many regular speakers have 5.25" drivers.




In the cnet link you provided, they provide the size of the drivers, which are 2"... however, the accurate cnet link of the model I purchased, they do not indicate driver size. Do you think my speakers are the same size (2") / and model?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> 
> *Just one quick example system within your budget with much more capability would be:*
> 
> - A pair of *PSB B-15* speakers for about *$250*.
> 
> See https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm
> 
> - A *Yamaha RX-V365* receiver for about *$190*
> 
> See http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...amaha-rxv365bl
> 
> - A *Dayton SUB-100* HT Series, 10", 125 Watt, Subwoofer for about *$135*
> 
> See http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-633
> 
> 
> That totals $575 delivered to your door!



Thanks! ... Ok, so I am looking at the PSB b15 speakers, from the cnet link that you have provided, the speaker drivers are a 1/4 inch bigger ... is this what your comparing? Essentially, my question is, what do I look for when comparing speakers / subs? Driver size?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> 
> The example system also has growth potential, if you want to expand at some future point into a 5.1 home theater system, it can. The Bose does not have that potential, you would have to replace it!
> 
> 
> The example system would blow the Bose Cinemate away, and I am not saying it is a be-all, end-all system in your price range--just one I threw together from previous forum reading and a bit of internet searching!



You're absolutely right... Down the road, if I move into a house, I can upgrade into a 5.1. Right now, I think a 2.1 is what I should start with.


My question: What do I look for in a receiver to determine the extent of its ability to "expand"... Meaning, if I purchase the one that you suggested, what are my limitations? Essentially, what distinguishes a 200 dollar receiver vs 500+? Lastly, would a 200 dollar receiver compromise the performance of the speakers? Or would I be getting more "juice" out of my speakers by using a more expensive receiver?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> XEagleDriver



Thanks again... I have to admit, I am a bit intimidated, and all I really want is a quality system for my money... There's so many options and models out there! I do want to be careful and make the smart purchase - hopefully that can happen sooner than later!






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crazyrob425* /forum/post/18426496
> 
> 
> The better puchase would have the Onkyo HT-S6200 where you can get the 7.1 htib which will yeild amazing sound must better than the bose. You can even just run it as a 3.1 set-up with the front left and right, center.
> 
> *If you just want a 2.1 or 3.1 speaker set-up where you don't have to run wires to the rear of the room let us know*



Thanks... I think the best scenario would be to start with a 2.1 or 3.1 and then in time expand. Right now the room I'm using is not ideal for surround sound, but I don't expect to live hear forever... with that said, would it be smart to buy a 7.1 and only use 2 or 3 speakers... and eventually set-up the others when I'm ready?


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## AudioDummy

One last thing, the salesman at the store where I bought the Bose said that the great thing about the system is that if I want to listen to it not that loud, the sound quality will still be amazing.


Where as, some of 5.1 or 7.1 systems Sony's or what not we were looking at in the store will sound less clear when the volume is below a certain point.


Is there any truth to this?


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## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioDummy* /forum/post/18427660
> 
> 
> One last thing, the salesman at the store where I bought the Bose said that the great thing about the system is that if I want to listen to it not that loud, the sound quality will still be amazing.
> 
> 
> Where as, some of 5.1 or 7.1 systems Sony's or what not we were looking at in the store will sound less clear when the volume is below a certain point.
> 
> 
> Is there any truth to this?



Nope no truth to it


Sony isn't that well known for home theaters. You want a real home theater

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the problem with Bose. No HDMI support, No Blu-ray audio support, Doesn't handle the lastest Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA HD audio. Not real support for additional inputs.


You want a good sounding HTIB with support of all the lastest features need so you won't have to upgrade during the line.

Denon DHT-590ba (probably the best sounding)

Onkyo HT-S6200

Onkyo HT-S5*3*00


The reciever really doesn't mean too much an in that case the bose products as far as recievers are POS. There is a reason why bose doesn't list the specs of their units

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Polk RM6750 5.1 kit ($235 w/shipping from Newegg) and Onkyo TX-SR507 ($310 w/shipping from newegg) reciever would sound much better than the Bose And be set-up you will not have to upgrade for awhile


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## XEagleDriver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioDummy* /forum/post/18427650
> 
> 
> Thank you XEagleDriver for your detailed reply... very appreciated!



Your welcome.




> Quote:
> I'm not sure if this will change your opinion or not, but the cnet link you provided is *not* the same model that I purchased. The starting price for the model I purchased is equivalent to the price I paid ($599).



My bad, glad you were not overcharged for what you bought




> Quote:
> Has your opinion changed with the actual model that I purchased?


*Unfortunately no*, due to the other reasons stated on the quality and limitations to the design of this Bose product.




> Quote:
> Yes, I can return for a full refund for up-to 30 days... It's normally not my thing to buy and return, but like I said, I normally don't buy on impulse.


*Glad you have the option and I understand sticking to your decisions in most circumstances.* Your money and your call on the best course of action.




> Quote:
> In the cnet link you provided, they provide the size of the drivers, which are 2"... however, the accurate cnet link of the model I purchased, they do not indicate driver size. *Do you think my speakers are the same size* (2") / and model?


*Yes, according to Crutchfield's web site the specs on the correct Bose system, it still has only 2" drivers and a 5" subwoofer.*


See http://www.crutchfield.com/p_018CINI...m.html?tp=6519 

(Assuming I got this one right!







)




> Quote:
> Ok, so I am looking at the PSB b15 speakers, from the cnet link that you have provided, the speaker drivers are a 1/4 inch bigger ... is this what your comparing? Essentially, my question is, *what do I look for when comparing speakers / subs? Driver size?*


*Quite a few things actually.*
*If available, listening to them with material I am familiar with is #1 by far* (but not always possible).

So I also use; manufacturer reputation, driver size and quality, professional and user reviews, testing results (frequency response curves), etc.


With that said, *ensure you are comparing apples to apples*, i.e. the 5.25" PSB speaker is not 1/4" greater than the Bose, but 3 1/4" greater than the 2" Bose speaker--a very significant difference! Likewise, for the subwoofer, the comparison is the 10" Dayton compared to the 5" Bose (also a very significant 5" difference).




> Quote:
> You're absolutely right... Down the road, if I move into a house, I can upgrade into a 5.1. Right now, I think a 2.1 is what I should start with.


*I agree, concentrate on getting quality 2.1 or 3.1 components now*, but if you play your cards right, these components can stay in your system even if you grow it sometime in the future.


For example, the PSB B-15s can be excellent Front L & R speakers now (when paired with a good subwoofer). But,should you expand in the future, the B-15s can be moved to be surround speakers in a 5.1 system by purchasing even more capable front speakers, such as T-45 or T-55 tower speakers. This migration is not possible with the Bose system.




> Quote:
> My questions:
> 
> 1) *What do I look for in a receiver to determine the extent of its ability to "expand"*...
> 
> 2) Meaning, *if I purchase the one that you suggested, what are my limitations?* Essentially,
> 
> 3) *what distinguishes a 200 dollar receiver vs 500+?*
> 
> 4) Lastly, *would a 200 dollar receiver compromise the performance of the speakers?* Or would I be getting more "juice" out of my speakers by using a more expensive receiver?


*All good questions, none with exact and complete answers--but here I go.*

1) It should have current CODECs (i.e. new Bluray audio for example), ample # of relevant inputs (HDMI for example) to your needs now and maybe one or two extra (for an additional game system), pre-amp outputs are very useful to add external (more powerful) amps later on. That last feature normally is found a few rungs up the ladder of available receivers--probably not in your stated budget ATT.

2) No pre-amp outputs, limited HDMI connnections.

3) See answer #1, and compare two of your choice online

4) No, normally only more expensive/exotic speakers are "difficult" to drive and might require more power. If you stick with speakers that are 6-8 ohms and have a sensitivity rating of ~87 dB or more you will be OK.




> Quote:
> Thanks again... I have to admit, I am a bit intimidated, and all I really want is a quality system for my money... There's so many options and models out there! I do want to be careful and make the smart purchase - hopefully that can happen sooner than later!


*I hear you, felt the same way when I started a few years back.* In my book, dump the Bose and buy components that will be a solid 2.1 now and a good foundation for future 3.1, 5.1, etc. is the most cost effective way to go.


FWIW, I am not a big HTIB fan because although the entry price is low enough, I find the speaker quality is generally poor (partly because they provide so many of them up front).




> Quote:
> Thanks... *I think the best scenario would be to start with a 2.1 or 3.1 and then in time expand*. Right now the room I'm using is not ideal for surround sound, but I don't expect to live hear forever... with that said, *would it be smart to buy a 7.1 and only use 2 or 3 speakers*... and eventually set-up the others when I'm ready?


*To your first point, I agree with you--quality 2.1 now* and build when your interest or living conditions dictate.

*On the second point, NO*, why waste money on stuff you will not use at the expense of quality on the items you will use now! -- instead, get much BETTER 2.1 speakers now, you will not regret it.


Cheers,

XEagleDriver


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## 97vobra




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *XEagleDriver* /forum/post/18425929
> 
> *Yamaha RX-V365* receiver for about *$190*



Does this receiver have a stereo 2.1 mode where it'll output everything to the left/right channels and the low frequency on the subwoofer?


I want to go this route with a 2.1 but don't want to be missing pieces of audio by only have two front speakers and not 5.


I was thinking of going this route with one of Yamaha's highest end receivers and then put together a complete Soavo system piece by piece. I just want the receiver to have the capability to do 2.1, 3.1, and 5.1 modes as my system expands.


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## lalakersfan34

I agree with a lot of what XEagleDriver is saying, but I have another suggestion.


Receiver technology progresses very quickly. Advancements are being made in calibration programs (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc) all of the time. Brand new technologies such as 3D are on the horizon for the near future. It sounds like you aren't going to be moving to a surround setup anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much about having the most "up-to-date" receiver since all you'll be running is 2.1 or possibly 3.1. Any "bleeding edge" receiver you buy now will be obsolete in a few years when you move on and are able to go with surround sound. Get a solid receiver and spend the rest on the speakers. Quality speakers should make a bigger difference in sound quality than a pricier receiver. To be fair, EagleDriver is recommending quality speakers as well - I'd just prioritize them far above the receiver in your particular situation.


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## AudioDummy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lalakersfan34* /forum/post/18436125
> 
> 
> I agree with a lot of what XEagleDriver is saying, but I have another suggestion.
> 
> 
> Receiver technology progresses very quickly. Advancements are being made in calibration programs (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc) all of the time. Brand new technologies such as 3D are on the horizon for the near future. It sounds like you aren't going to be moving to a surround setup anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much about having the most "up-to-date" receiver since all you'll be running is 2.1 or possibly 3.1. Any "bleeding edge" receiver you buy now will be obsolete in a few years when you move on and are able to go with surround sound. Get a solid receiver and spend the rest on the speakers. Quality speakers should make a bigger difference in sound quality than a pricier receiver. To be fair, EagleDriver is recommending quality speakers as well - I'd just prioritize them far above the receiver in your particular situation.



Thanks for the advice ... you are right on all your points.


I'd like to only spend a 2-300 on a receiver


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## Pete C

You guys don't think he should go with one of the newer HDMI 1.4 compatible receivers? The brand-spanking-new Onkyo TX-SR308 is only $250. It is not very powerful at 60w per channel, but paired with nice bookshelf speakers and a powered sub it would be more than enough. The key is it will allow for 3D Blu-Ray support, which I personally would definitely be looking for at this point just in case.


At any rate...to the OP, I would return those Bose ASAP and get yourself back to a starting point. The Bose is definitely not the way to go. Once you start reading more about it, there are so many other options out there for that money which are superior. You could even look into a super-simple setup like a ZVOX surround bar or base if you wanted to go the clutter-free route. You'll still rock the Bose even with that.


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## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pete C* /forum/post/18441080
> 
> 
> You guys don't think he should go with one of the newer HDMI 1.4 compatible receivers? The brand-spanking-new Onkyo TX-SR308 is only $250. It is not very powerful at 60w per channel, but paired with nice bookshelf speakers and a powered sub it would be more than enough. The key is it will allow for 3D Blu-Ray support, which I personally would definitely be looking for at this point just in case.



You are giving up great features like Audyssey 2EQ with the TX-sr308. Person Should spend the extra $50 for the TX-SR507


-Polk Monitor 30 bookshelves

-Bic v1020 10" subwoofer


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## richkorn1

AudioDummy - Don't sweat it. IMO the Cinemate Series II (yes the $599 one) is one hell of a 2.1 system that pumps out some serious sound. It is simple and easy to use also. Yes I have it and Yes I love it!!!!


Guess you have to actually 'own' one of these to appreciate Bose...


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## gtommers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richkorn1* /forum/post/18474542
> 
> 
> Guess you have to actually 'own' one of these to appreciate Bose...



Yes, people who have never heard anything better appreciate Bose. They are, after all, _slightly better_ than the speakers built into most low end TVs.


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## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richkorn1* /forum/post/18474542
> 
> 
> AudioDummy - Don't sweat it. IMO the Cinemate Series II (yes the $599 one) is one hell of a 2.1 system that pumps out some serious sound. It is simple and easy to use also. Yes I have it and Yes I love it!!!!
> 
> 
> Guess you have to actually 'own' one of these to appreciate Bose...



I had the Cinemate Series II in my house for a bit to try out and I have to say I was very happy with the sound and the overall set-up of the system.

For some one looking for an easy simple 2.1 system it can be a good choice.


"AudioDummy" be aware that many on this forum like to Bose bash and most of the time the bashers have not even tried out the Bose system they are bashing.


Since you bought the CineMate Im guessin your looking for a simple 2.1 system, if you dont keep the Bose perhaps you might want to check out some of the soundbars that offer the same ease of set-up with out running speakers all around the house.


The Vizio soundbar with the wireless sub and the Sony CT-100 and Sony CT-500 are some very good options.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gtommers* /forum/post/18567599
> 
> 
> Yes, people who have never heard anything better appreciate Bose. They are, after all, _slightly better_ than the speakers built into most low end TVs.



Sorry to bum you out but I have owned many very nice systems over the years, worked as a professional musician for most of my adult life, been a soundman and worked in recording studios,,, meaning I have heard and worked with just about every brand of gear there is and I appreciate Bose.


Cheers

Davyo


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## sheldoncoles

*AudioDummy:*

Did you keep the CineMate Series II? How do you like it; or did you return it and go bigger?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


After reading most of the posts here, I think some of you are missing the point. I'm in the same boat looking for a decent sound without having to string 50 feet of speaker wire and crowding my living room with speakers.


About 10-years ago I bought a fairly decent system for about $2500. Sony receiver (top of the line at the time) and a JBL Northridge N21 package (5.1). It was (and still is) a great system that produces amazing surround sound. I'm sure some will disagree, but for my use it was good for getting the surround experience from the occasional movie and listening to music.


Then I had a kid and all hell broke loose. He managed to break two of the satellite speakers after using the stand to help stand _himself_ up. So I went down to 3.1. I found I was using my receiver less and less because I wasn't watching a lot of movies and listening to music. I finally just decided to pack it all up and put it storage. Now, with I'm sure a lot of you, the plasma or LCD is becoming the main output for sound. And we all know how crappy those speakers are.


So now I'm 'speakerless' and last night went to Costco and picked up the Cinemate Series I (mistake by the way) -- it has to go back because it lacks the optical input that my plasma requires (RCA inputs only). I was very pleased with the demo unit they had hooked up and I think for the space and money I want to spend, the Cinemate Series II will be *perfect*.


That's the point. Sure, you could spend the same amount of money and more and go for the full surround experience, but if you live in a condo (like me), that might not be the right route to go. Who really needs a receiver these days? With iPods and radio broadcast through cable boxes and next door neighbours only separated by a foot of concrete, I have less reason to buy a full home theatre system. Maybe if I had a dedicated home theatre room in the basement of a house, it would be more feasible.


To 'conclude' my pov, if you've stumbled on this page like me looking for answers on the Bose Cinemate Series II, my opinion (and that's all it is, my opinion) I think it's a great option if you want to bypass the typical receiver/amp hook-up with multiple speakers and want a good sound system for the occasional time you want to pump up the volume.


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## MandM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18567844
> 
> 
> "AudioDummy" be aware that many on this forum like to Bose bash and most of the time the bashers have not even tried out the Bose system they are bashing.



One only has to look at what Bose offers for the dollar compared to the competition and it's quite obvious. Enjoy your full range 2" _woofers_ and 5.25" _subwoofer_ (oops meant "bass module").


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## Kyuu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sheldoncoles* /forum/post/18592916
> 
> 
> To 'conclude' my pov, if you've stumbled on this page like me looking for answers on the Bose Cinemate Series II, my opinion (and that's all it is, my opinion) I think it's a great option if you want to bypass the typical receiver/amp hook-up with multiple speakers and want a good sound system for the occasional time you want to pump up the volume.



If you want a simplified solution that doesn't require a separate receiver or amp and you're not concerned with good sound quality, then there are plenty of other HTiB solutions from other brands that will get you as good or better sound quality (hell at least a lot of them don't consist of laughable 2" full-range drivers and a 5.25" woofer Bose amusingly terms a "bass module") for less money.


You'll probably even get better results from a soundbar with one of the wireless 6" 'subs' that come with them.


That's the point. Everyone doesn't need to go out and buy their own $2000 Bose system to know that Bose sells sub-par speakers for heavily inflated prices. It's well documented.


If you're happy with your Bose speakers, great. No one is denying you your right to overpay for poor quality products. But I'm confused as to why the fact that you or anyone else concedes to do so means other people can't, quite rightly, criticize the Bose brand.


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## scorrpio

Logitech Z-2300 2.1 THX-certified 200W RMS - $140.

GefenTV DAC - $80. Not needed if TV has analog outputs.


That's $220 total. Compact, easy to setup. And sound will at least match the Bose system, though my money is on Z2300 and its 8" sub.


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## 4theLuvofHD

To the OP, everyone here is right. Bose doesn't sound bad. Its just that for the same money or less you can get BETTER. Same as Monster cables, no one saying they are BAD cables, just they are not as good as their price tag. They do not magically do anything, neither does Bose. In fact, Bose does use 2" drivers and a very small woofer for bass. Some people like this because it isn't rumble the house, but you can get cheap bookshelf speakers with bigger woofers that beat Bose. No sense in wasting money. There is no sense in buying this system for "simplicity" or "ease" as most every product is as easy or simple to use or set up. Bose limits your options so you can't make it difficult for yourself, but any other receiver can do what it does and much more flexibility.


----------



## gtommers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18567844
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to bum you out but I have owned many very nice systems over the years, worked as a professional musician for most of my adult life, been a soundman and worked in recording studios,,, meaning I have heard and worked with just about every brand of gear there is and I appreciate Bose.



Why would it bum me out? Everyone has different experiences when they hear a pair of speakers, and there's no right or wrong. But for me, a $3k Bose system sounds no better than a boombox from the 80's and vastly inferior to a decent $200 pair of bookshelves. Considering that the manufacturing cost of a $3k Bose system is about $100 that makes sense.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gtommers* /forum/post/18607425
> 
> 
> Why would it bum me out? Everyone has different experiences when they hear a pair of speakers, and there's no right or wrong. But for me, a $3k Bose system sounds no better than a boombox from the 80's and vastly inferior to a decent $200 pair of bookshelves. Considering that the manufacturing cost of a $3k Bose system is about $100 that makes sense.



I knew I was not really going to bum you out, I was just being a bit of a smartass,,,, I was just posting back to your statement that only people that have not heard or owned better speakers buy Bose,,, I have owned and heard some great systems but still see where Bose has a place and does fill a need.


Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,, as an example,, Bose is perhaps the ONLY company that does not outsource its Customer Support department,,, when you call Bose CS you get an actual english speaking person on the phone that is located in this country and knows about the product, and their CS department is very good at taking care of any problems,,, that of course is part of the Bose pricing,, when you buy the product your not "just" paying for the product itself.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## scorrpio

A properly working product that includes a comprehensive manual generally does not need CS calls. I prefer to buy a product where most of the $$$ has gone into the product itself, not marketing and CS.


Good CS only serves to underscore the type of consumer Bose primarily targets: Lazy and uneducated, who would rather just walk into the store without a clue, swallow a salesman's pitch and pay the outlandish price rather than do 3-4 hours of research that would probably net him better gear at better prices. The kind of consumer who will rather dial CS than read through the manual. Heck, if a CS call does not answer Joe Schmoe's question, he just might (God forbid) go on the 'net and find what Bose exactly is.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorrpio* /forum/post/18609411
> 
> 
> A properly working product that includes a comprehensive manual generally does not need CS calls. I prefer to buy a product where most of the $$$ has gone into the product itself, not marketing and CS.
> 
> 
> Good CS only serves to underscore the type of consumer Bose primarily targets: Lazy and uneducated, who would rather just walk into the store without a clue, swallow a salesman's pitch and pay the outlandish price rather than do 3-4 hours of research that would probably net him better gear at better prices. The kind of consumer who will rather dial CS than read through the manual. Heck, if a CS call does not answer Joe Schmoe's question, he just might (God forbid) go on the 'net and find what Bose exactly is.



Nice Bose bashing rant, but I was not talking about calling Bose's CS to see how to turn on or operate a Bose system,,, I was bringing up the Bose CS subject as it pertains to repairs and getting replacement and warrenty service done.


In the past I have needed repair or warrenty service on major audio brand products I have purchased, with Bose you dont need to take Indian language lessons to understand what their CS agents are saying,,,, with almost all the other companies your on hold for an hour and then talking with some guy in India that has never even heard of the product your calling about.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## Eayes

I'm not replying to bash or defend Bose although I do think they're pricey for what you get but since other companies CS were brought up I recently called Onkyo, Pioneer, and Samsung and was speaking with someone basically right after navigating the initial menu and if they weren't American they sure fooled me, and I've certainly had plenty of experience with the type of CS you are talking about but they were not electronics related except for Dell for my wife's PC, never again from them.


----------



## gtommers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18608703
> 
> 
> Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,, as an example,, Bose is perhaps the ONLY company that does not outsource its Customer Support department,,, when you call Bose CS you get an actual english speaking person on the phone that is located in this country and knows about the product, and their CS department is very good at taking care of any problems,,, that of course is part of the Bose pricing,, when you buy the product your not "just" paying for the product itself.



Bose may be one of the only large electronics companies with USA CS, but that's not saying much because the best bang for the buck with audio is typically found in the smaller outfits that sell directly to the consumer. And these smaller outfits offer US support that I'm sure is vastly superior to the Bose support. Being able to call the president directly on cell phone is not uncommon.


----------



## mazspeed

Bose has a great marketing department. Bose has a terrific sales department. They can sell sand to Arabs. It's also the worst speaker in its price point ever made.

But they tell you it's the best, and have a wonderful marketing campaign. They are very smart, create a crappy product, but tell everyone it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's brilliant. If most companies did marketing like Bose, they would be so much better off. Palm could have used their marketing director.


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18608703
> 
> 
> Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,,



Is Bose overpriced? Yes.


This really isn't even debatable.


Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.

Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.

While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.


Bose is also designed purely for aesthetics, not sound quality. They are built to be small. That's it. It's very difficult to make tiny speakers sound good, which is one reason why Bose sounds horrible to anyone who has a decent ear. They are not capable of accurately reproducing a majority of frequencies, and that's precisely why Bose is the only company to not publish frequency response charts.


----------



## lalakersfan34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18617098
> 
> 
> Is Bose overpriced? Yes.
> 
> 
> This really isn't even debatable.
> 
> 
> Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.
> 
> Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.
> 
> While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.
> 
> 
> Bose is also designed purely for aesthetics, not sound quality. They are built to be small. That's it. It's very difficult to make tiny speakers sound good, which is one reason why Bose sounds horrible to anyone who has a decent ear. They are not capable of accurately reproducing a majority of frequencies, and that's precisely why Bose is the only company to not publish frequency response charts.



Hate to pick nits, and I'm not exactly a Bose fan myself, but some of your assertions likely are not true...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18617098
> 
> 
> Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.



Likely not. Some of the ultra-high end speakers out there probably have higher markup than Bose. Any speakers costing hundreds of thousands of dollars probably have a higher markup than Bose - though of course Bose speakers do carry a ridiculous price tag compared to their direct materials and manufacturing costs...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18617098
> 
> 
> Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.



Possibly, but again difficult to know for sure.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18617098
> 
> 
> While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.



ID companies often have excellent support, but I've heard many horror stories as well. Thus far I've had positive experiences with ID companies but I know others have not been as fortunate. FWIW, Bose does have a reputation for having excellent support themselves. I agree that the huge markup on Bose products is not solely due to the cost of having great service, and that their service is not necessarily head and shoulders above that of many other audio companies. Still, I don't know that I'd say that "pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better US-based support."


Overall, is Bose overpriced? Absolutely, as long as you consider value to be based on sheer audio performance. However, if convenience, ease of use, aesthetics, brand recognition as a status symbol (however misplaced it may be), customer service and support, and peace of mind are also factors, I can see how some people gravitate toward Bose. Would I recommend Bose? Absolutely not. But in an environment where aesthetics and brand-recognition are king and the speakers are used for casual listening at low levels with little regard for excellence in sound reproduction, Bose speakers can make sense (though there are still far better sounding options at much lower prices).


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lalakersfan34* /forum/post/18617396
> 
> 
> Likely not. Some of the ultra-high end speakers out there probably have higher markup than Bose. Any speakers costing hundreds of thousands of dollars probably have a higher markup than Bose - though of course Bose speakers do carry a ridiculous price tag compared to their direct materials and manufacturing costs...



I'd be surprised if one of the $3k Bose Lifestyle system used more than $150 worth of parts. That's 20x increase from parts to retail.


I have no idea what the parts cost for a typical $100k speaker (is it less than $5k?). But I do know that many internet direct companies sell speakers with only a 2.5x increase ($2k speaker with $800 in parts, for example).


----------



## Kratos3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gtommers* /forum/post/18567599
> 
> 
> Yes, people who have never heard anything better appreciate Bose. They are, after all, _slightly better_ than the speakers built into most low end TVs.













You'll notice that it is very hard to do a direct, side-by-side comparison with most Bose products. They usually have their own little demo station(with demo material that they've chosen) to check it out. They pay a lot of money to retailers to do this.


I'm not saying AudioDummy, or anyone, should not buy Bose. If you like how it sounds, buy it. Just be aware of what you're paying for. Bose makes their money based on the simplicity of their products, their name, and aggressive marketing.


----------



## KickItUpANotch

Hello, I found this thread searching about the Bose Cinemate just like the original poster did.


I like to do my due diligence before buying too, and of course I've heard that Bose is overpriced as well.


However, this product fits my "needs" list almost perfectly. I have a big room, I want non-intrusive speakers, and I prefer a 2.1. Really, I value sound quality but the look of the room is far more important and the less I see of the speakers the better.


So, while many people have mentioned how poor of a choice the Bose are, only a few alternatives have been mentioned. Basically, I would really appreciate it if some people could recommend viable Bose cinemate II alternatives. That is, a 2.1 system that is good sounding, small, and in the same price range (or lower as everyone says it _should_ be).


----------



## JWE103

As an owner of a Bose V30 HTIB I've often wondered why so many well meaning audio enthusiasts thrash Bose. When I was 18 some 42 years ago, I remember Bose had a great reputation. The 901 speakers come to mind widely regarded as the best of the best. What happended over the years? Could it be because Bose doesn't publish their specs and this angers many audiophiles. Also I remember reading that Bose sued Consumer Reports magazine years ago over what Bose called an unfair review of one of their products and won! I think this decision was later overturned but the damage was already done. Have you ever tried to find a review of a Bose product in a A/V magazine or on the internet by a respected reviewer? They simply don't exist. Could the fallout from this lawsuit years ago have caused most if not all publications to turn their backs on Bose? Maybe someone could shed some more light on this whole Bose bashing thing.

In the meantime I'll be enjoying my Bose V30, its plenty good enough for me. Even listening in my large room with high ceilings, the sound effects are so strong (and that's with the bass setting at half) that I frequently miss some dialog in movies. That might not be a good thing, but at least I can always turn on the subtitles.

To AudioDummy, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to take back your Bose, especially if it sounds good to you, there just might be more to Bose than these forums would have you believe.


JWE103


----------



## freezy74

I read this tread also. I Live in a townhouse and didn't want anything to crazy, but wanted to have something that sounds very good and excellent sound quality. I was sold on the Bose simply due to the size and design. Then I found these forums and held off thinking I was making a mistake. I looked at other stuff but didn't want a huge receiver, another full size remote I just wanted it to hook up easy and sound clean. Bose was having a sale on factory renewed stuff and after hearing they had a 30 return policy I figured what do I have to loose and I went and got a factory renewed cinemate 2. I know people will not like to hear this but this thing is NOT going back. Sounds much better then I was expecting and for the price I and very happy with it. Could I have spent more and got something better? Maybe, but for the price and for how this sounds I am very happy I rolled the dice. I would go buy it all over again.


I went into this looking to improve the way my TV sounded. This really surpassed my expectations.


Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I'm sure by now they wouldn't be.


----------



## KickItUpANotch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freezy74* /forum/post/18907107
> 
> 
> I read this tread also. I Live in a townhouse and didn't want anything to crazy, but wanted to have something that sounds very good and excellent sound quality. I was sold on the Bose simply due to the size and design. Then I found these forums and held off thinking I was making a mistake. I looked at other stuff but didn't want a huge receiver, another full size remote I just wanted it to hook up easy and sound clean. Bose was having a sale on factory renewed stuff and after hearing they had a 30 return policy I figured what do I have to loose and I went and got a factory renewed cinemate 2. I know people will not like to hear this but this thing is NOT going back. Sounds much better then I was expecting and for the price I and very happy with it. Could I have spent more and got something better? Maybe, but for the price and for how this sounds I am very happy I rolled the dice. I would go buy it all over again.
> 
> 
> I went into this looking to improve the way my TV sounded. This really surpassed my expectations.
> 
> 
> Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I'm sure by now they wouldn't be.



How much did you pay for the factory renewed bose cinemate series II?


----------



## cacophony777

Want cheaper/better alternatives to Bose? Need them to still be tiny?

http://www.orbaudio.com/


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freezy74* /forum/post/18907107
> 
> 
> Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I’m sure by now they wouldn’t be.



Yes, they are still in business and doing very well I'm sure. They spend a tremendous amount on marketing and most people who buy Bose are upgrading from the speakers built into their TV. Nobody is denying that Bose isn't a big jump up from speakers built into your TV.


But here's the problem...


A *$3500* Bose Lifestyle system is a complete turd compared to the *$300* Energy Take 5.1 in terms of sound quality. Think about that for a moment, and then maybe you'll understand why Bose bashers are so vocal.


Most people who buy Bose never discover this because they don't bother to comparison shop (or even research alternatives on the internet). The people that do bother to do the research are precisely the individuals who frequent this forum.


Here's an analogy:


Imagine if Chevy was the only car company to advertise, and their only car is the Chevy Aveo, which they sell for $195,0000. Their slogan is "Better Cars through Research". Most people have never driven any car, so when they buy this popular Aveo model they're happy (because it's great compared to having to walk). But had they done some research they would have discovered that the Toyota Corolla is better and only $16,000. Or they could have bought a Porsche 911 for $80,000 or perhaps a nice Lexus or Mercedes for $70,000.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KickItUpANotch* /forum/post/18903903
> 
> 
> Hello, I found this thread searching about the Bose Cinemate just like the original poster did.
> 
> 
> I like to do my due diligence before buying too, and of course I've heard that Bose is overpriced as well.
> 
> 
> However, this product fits my "needs" list almost perfectly. I have a big room, I want non-intrusive speakers, and I prefer a 2.1. Really, I value sound quality but the look of the room is far more important and the less I see of the speakers the better.
> 
> 
> So, while many people have mentioned how poor of a choice the Bose are, only a few alternatives have been mentioned. Basically, I would really appreciate it if some people could recommend viable Bose cinemate II alternatives. That is, a 2.1 system that is good sounding, small, and in the same price range (or lower as everyone says it _should_ be).



Bose bashing threads are so entertaining,,,some of the stuff that gets said really makes me laugh.

Anyhow,,, if your happy with the Cinemate keep it and pay no attention to the bashing.

I tried out the Cinemate ll in my house and I was impressed with how good it sounded and looked.

And you are correct about getting recomendations for a Cinemate alternative, below is a recomondation for small speakers, but thats it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18910116
> 
> 
> Want cheaper/better alternatives to Bose? Need them to still be tiny? http://www.orbaudio.com/



OK,,,, you recomended some small Orb speakers, thats fine,, but I think your missing the point,,,, the Bose Cinemate is a small complete system with a sub that does not require a receiver or anything else and is made to emulate a surround sound with just the 2 speakers and sub (opps sorry,, I meant bass modual).

So recomend a small steath like system that does the same thing ???


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18910545
> 
> 
> OK,,,, you recomended some small Orb speakers, thats fine,, but I think your missing the point,,,, the Bose Cinemate is a small complete system with a sub that does not require a receiver or anything else and is made to emulate a surround sound with just the 2 speakers and sub (opps sorry,, I meant bass modual).
> 
> So recomend a small steath like system that does the same thing ???



Often the receiver size isn't nearly as big of a concern as it can often be concealed within an entertainment cabinet. It's a small price to pay for much better sound and more features/upgradeability (for far less money).


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18910604
> 
> 
> Often the receiver size isn't nearly as big of a concern as it can often be concealed within an entertainment cabinet. It's a small price to pay for much better sound and more features/upgradeability (for far less money).



Thats your recomondation,,, get an entertainment cabinet and stick a receiver in it,,,, you also left out the part about running all the wires.


Hate to disagree with you but OFTEN having a receiver and an entertainment cabinet is a BIG concern.


As an example,,, just one example I might add:


More than a few of us have flat panels that are wall mounted and dont want an entertainment cabinet or a receiver or wires running around the room,, we want a nice clean stealth install which the Bose Cinemate provides,,,, like I said, thats just one example.


So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18910759
> 
> 
> So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?



Why do I need to? My point was Bose sounds awful and that you can get better sounding equipment for 1/10th the price. Everybody knows that the one and only advantage Bose has is that it's small. If somebody wants to choose aesthetics over everything else it's their choice, but they should be aware of the huge tradeoff they're making.


----------



## cacophony777

BTW, this likely much better than the Bose Cinemate:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-230.../dp/B0002SQ2P2 


I mean, geez, it actually has a "Response Bandwidth - 35Hz - 20kHz"


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18910759
> 
> 
> So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?



Oh, and how about this:
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=73 


Add the sub for $300 and you'll have a complete $600 2.1 system that's smaller than the Bose but with vastly better sound and build quality.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18911005
> 
> 
> Why do I need to? My point was Bose sounds awful and that you can get better sounding equipment for 1/10th the price. Everybody knows that the one and only advantage Bose has is that it's small. If somebody wants to choose aesthetics over everything else it's their choice, but they should be aware of the huge tradeoff they're making.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18911039
> 
> 
> BTW, this likely much better than the Bose Cinemate:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-230.../dp/B0002SQ2P2
> 
> 
> I mean, geez, it actually has a "Response Bandwidth - 35Hz - 20kHz"





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18912003
> 
> 
> Oh, and how about this:
> http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=73
> 
> 
> Add the sub for $300 and you'll have a complete $600 2.1 system that's smaller than the Bose but with vastly better sound and build quality.



Just as I thought,,, your trashing the Bose Cinemate and then when asked to recomend a real alternative you post links for computer speakers,,,,,, and yea, I already know what your guna say, your reply post will read "those PC speakers sound better than the Cinemate",,,, there, I beat ya to it..


You suffer from the same problem most other Bose bashers suffer from,,, you have never owned or had a Bose in your house and made a real true judgment based on personal hands on experience.


The Bose Cinemate fills a need for what it is, does and how it is designed, you are able to bash but cant recomend something better in the same form factor and design.


Ohhh well,,,,, Im wasting my typing skills,,,, there is no changing a Bose basher as they are not open to anything other than mindless bashing.


I could care less what kind of paper Bose uses to make their speakers from, and I could care less if they post their speaker specs or not,,, what matters as how a system sounds in your house and while I dont own a Bose I will say some of their systems sound pretty darn good and they do fill a nich in their design,,,,,, Ok,,, Im done now.


Continue with your Bose bashing,,, have fun with that.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## malovich

Yes you made a mistake...


I guess i'll be the first top post this old and sadly *still relevant* site portraying one guy's opinions and facts about bose. I feel there are more facts than opinions FWIW.


Now for speaker alternatives(you should add a model sub as budget permits to the pairs):
Energy Take Classic 5.1 set 
Polk RM705 5.1 set 
Infinity TSS-500CHR 5.1 set 
Klipsch HD 300 5.1 set 

Pair of Aperion Intimus 4B speakers 

Pair of Ascend CBM-170SE speakers

Pair of Axiom M2 speakers

Pair of BIC FH65B speakers

Pair of laughably high value Dayton B652 speakers

Pair of Def Tech 800 speakers

Pair of ED A3-5TC speakers

Pair of Energy CB-5 speakers

Pair of HSU HB-1 speakers

Pair of HTD Level 2 speakers

Pair of Monitor R90HD speakers

Pair of Polk Monitor 30  Speakers

Pair of Polk TSi100 speakers

Pair of PSB Image B4 speakers

Pair of SVS SBS-02 Speakers

Tweak City Audio Gizmo+WAF-1 package designed and sold by our very own craigsub


Subwoofers:
BIC F12 

pretty much any Dayton Subwoofer , Budget Price and Performance to suit

Somebody pitch in here, I don't know of many budget value subs


Receivers:
Onkyo 308 
Onkyo 508 
Harmon Kardon HK3390 
Pioneer VSX-820-k 
Yamaha RX-V665BL 
Denon AVR 591 


I personally would stretch the budget to accommodate a pair of Ascend CMT-340 speakers and an onkyo 508 receiver.

To stay in your budget go with the 308+energy 5.1 set


Some things you should consider:


even though a receiver says 5.1 it can output 2.0,2.1,3.0,3.1,5.0,5.1.


You don not need a subwoofer to have deeper bass than a bose bass module, even at this price range.


I think every pair of speakers I listed can be used in a larger matched set in the future.


Monoprice/Bluejeans/Ebay/Amazon are good sources to get cabling. Keep in mind that anything digital does not need any fancy technology, the signal travels at the speed of light anyways. Analog cables would best be gotten at bluejeans or monoprice as quality from amazon and ebay can be sketchy at times.


16gauge speaker wire will be plenty for any application you may run across and again this needs no fancy technology to work.

Just because a speaker is not tiny does not mean it doesn't have a place in your room, many of these bookshelf speakers are gorgeous on their own.


To those people who say that sometimes a receiver has nowhere to go and that they like a clean look, where did you put the dvd player? Bluray player? cable box? Gaming Console?


A bar speaker may work great for your application but there is absolutely zero expandability and the simulated surround just doesn't cut it in some room layouts.


PM me if you want more information or detailed instructions on how to set any of these systems up.


----------



## freezy74




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickitupanotch* /forum/post/18907494
> 
> 
> how much did you pay for the factory renewed bose cinemate series ii?



$450


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freezy74* /forum/post/18912665
> 
> 
> $450



$450.00,,,, cool,,, keep it,,, enjoy it, and ignor all the Bose bashing.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18912605
> 
> 
> Ohhh well,,,,, Im wasting my typing skills,,,, there is no changing a Bose basher as they are not open to anything other than mindless bashing.



Mindless bashing? I have an educated opinion that's based on having extended listening sessions with a number of different Bose systems (both in stores and at various friend's houses).


Frankly, there are only a few logical explanations for your pro Bose posts:


(1) You sell Bose

(2) You've never heard anything other than Bose

(3) You own Bose and are trying to justify your purchase

(4) You need to get your hearing checked


Which is it Davyo? All of the above?


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18912605
> 
> 
> you are able to bash but cant recomend something better in the same form factor and design.



Actually, if you had bothered to read my post you would see that I came up with a specific recommendation that's both smaller and vastly superior (for the same cost). Hint for the mindless: It's the third part you quoted.


----------



## Maukey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18913004
> 
> 
> Mindless bashing? I have an educated opinion that's based on having extended listening sessions with a number of different Bose systems (both in stores and at various friend's houses).
> 
> 
> Frankly, there are only a few logical explanations for your pro Bose posts:
> 
> 
> (1) You sell Bose
> 
> (2) You've never heard anything other than Bose
> 
> (3) You own Bose and are trying to justify your purchase
> 
> (4) You need to get your hearing checked
> 
> 
> Which is it Davyo? All of the above?



(1) LOL

(2) LOL x 2

(3) He actually returned his Bose

(4) You could say that about any person on this forum who prefers one sound set-up over another.


If you've ever read any of Davyo's posts, the last thing you would refer to him as would be a Bose homer LOL. He actually agrees that Bose is overpriced. He just disagrees with people who bash Bose pretty much blindly and based off what others have said.


You may ask why am I defending Davyo. I was in the same boat not too long ago, and Davyo helped me out. I had tried out a variety of Receiver/Sub/2.1 and soundbar combinations IN MY HOME. I also had the Bose Cinemate II GS 2.1 System. I was very impressed with the sound quality and style of the Bose. However, due to bashers on these and other forums, I tried my hardest not to like the Bose. I was literally looking for faults in the sound quality. But even after comparing it to other systems IN MY HOME, I kept coming back to the Bose. My wife, kids, and few of my closest friends all agreed. Were there systems that sounded just as good, and arguably better? Yea. But the Bose overall out did the other systems. The Bose had the style and stealth factor of the soundbar systems but with better sound, and it stood it's ground with some of the more powerful Receiver/Sub/2.1 combinations I tried. Here's what got me, the Bose competed while only outputting DTS and DD. Some of these other systems and soundbars were outputting LPCM/TrueHD/DTSMaster.


Saying all of this to say, OP, pick what's best for you and what you like. If you're able to, take a look at other $450 systems and see how they stack up in your home. As far as the convenience, stealth, and minimalist design, I can tell you that I haven't found one that competes with the Bose. Despite what some will tell you, the sound is extremely good, and Bose to me still simulates surround sound better than any other 2.1/3.1 system I've found.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18913004
> 
> 
> Mindless bashing? I have an educated opinion that's based on having extended listening sessions with a number of different Bose systems (both in stores and at various friend's houses).
> 
> 
> Frankly, there are only a few logical explanations for your pro Bose posts:
> 
> 
> (1) You sell Bose
> 
> (2) You've never heard anything other than Bose
> 
> (3) You own Bose and are trying to justify your purchase
> 
> (4) You need to get your hearing checked
> 
> 
> Which is it Davyo? All of the above?



Ohhhh ma gosh !!!!!,,, funny stuff !!!!!!!


Ok,,, I will answer your little questions just for fun.


(1) No, I dont sell Bose.


(2) Yes, I have heard and have owned many brands other than Bose,,, among the brands I have owned,,, Yamaha, Energy, Onkyo, JBL, Sony, Polk, and just about every major brand of gear thats well known.


(3) No, I do not own any Bose products at all.


(4) My hearing is fine, it has to be, I work as a professional musician and also do session recording gigs,,,, and also,,, run live sound for bands when needed.

When working as a musician I mostly use MarkBass power amps and speaker cabs or Gallien Krueger D-class power amps with Neo series speaker cabinets.

When Im working doing live sound for bands in small to med size clubs I use my very nice 1000 watt Carvin PA system I put together.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## JWE103

I've been enjoying all the comments about Bose since I added my two cents recently, but can someone tell me why it's so hard to find reviews of Bose products? I'm not talking about product descriptions, but honest reviews by trusted professionals on the internet or A/V magazines.


JWE103


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18913713
> 
> 
> Ohhhh ma gosh !!!!!,,, funny stuff !!!!!!!
> 
> 
> (2) Yes, I have heard and have owned many brands other than Bose,,, among the brands I have owned,,, Yamaha, Energy, Onkyo, JBL, Sony, Polk, and just about every major brand of gear thats well known.



The fact that you choose to mention brands like Yamaha, Onkyo, and Sony as your core examples for alternative speakers you've heard/owned tells me all I need to know. Funny stuff is right!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18913713
> 
> 
> (4) My hearing is fine, it has to be, I work as a professional musician and also do session recording gigs,,,, and also,,, run live sound for bands when needed.
> 
> When working as a musician I mostly use MarkBass power amps and speaker cabs or Gallien Krueger D-class power amps with Neo series speaker cabinets.
> 
> When Im working doing live sound for bands in small to med size clubs I use my very nice 1000 watt Carvin PA system I put together.



heh. More funny stuff! Seeing that the live sound for most bands is horrible this all makes sense, and it also explains your hearing loss.


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Maukey* /forum/post/18913676
> 
> 
> You may ask why am I defending Davyo. I was in the same boat not too long ago, and Davyo helped me out. I had tried out a variety of Receiver/Sub/2.1 and soundbar combinations IN MY HOME. I also had the Bose Cinemate II GS 2.1 System. I was very impressed with the sound quality and style of the Bose. However, due to bashers on these and other forums, I tried my hardest not to like the Bose. I was literally looking for faults in the sound quality. But even after comparing it to other systems IN MY HOME, I kept coming back to the Bose. My wife, kids, and few of my closest friends all agreed. Were there systems that sounded just as good, and arguably better? Yea. But the Bose overall out did the other systems. The Bose had the style and stealth factor of the soundbar systems but with better sound, and it stood it's ground with some of the more powerful Receiver/Sub/2.1 combinations I tried. Here's what got me, the Bose competed while only outputting DTS and DD. Some of these other systems and soundbars were outputting LPCM/TrueHD/DTSMaster.
> 
> 
> Saying all of this to say, OP, pick what's best for you and what you like. If you're able to, take a look at other $450 systems and see how they stack up in your home. As far as the convenience, stealth, and minimalist design, I can tell you that I haven't found one that competes with the Bose. Despite what some will tell you, the sound is extremely good, and Bose to me still simulates surround sound better than any other 2.1/3.1 system I've found.



I don't know about the other systems you compared it to, but if you want stealth you would have gotten a far better system for the same cost with orb audio. Sorry nobody was around to give you decent advice when you made your purchase. I'm certain that if you tried orb audio IN YOUR HOME the Bose would have been long gone.


Also, in the future I'd suggest getting at least *some* advice from the Speakers forum (or the less frequented 2 Channel Audio forum), where the knowledge and experience is generally much higher.


----------



## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JWE103* /forum/post/18914008
> 
> 
> I've been enjoying all the comments about Bose since I added my two cents recently, but can someone tell me why it's so hard to find reviews of Bose products? I'm not talking about product descriptions, but honest reviews by trusted professionals on the internet or A/V magazines.
> 
> 
> JWE103



Because they sued Consumer Reports for who did an honest review of the Bose product which didn't portray Bose the way Bose wanted. _I use to be heavily involved in another industry where the one company sued independent reviewers of their product and since then nobody has had the balls to test their product in fear of being sued. This company only allows to for their product to be tested by somebody they paid as they can control the result with money. I have known companies try to sabotage independent testers in hopes that it will distort the results in their favor._


Now I have heard Bose and they sound nice in their displays and their outlet store I was impressed but every Bose home installation I have heard is no different than my 5.1 system that I only spent $450. I have a major problem with the fact that I would pay $2,000 for something that has the sound quality of something that's $500. If I am willing to spend $2,000 I want $2,000 sound quality. I would even not pay 2k for something aesthetically pleasing, when the whole point is to have good sound quality. And the speaker sets like the Polk RM95, sound much better than the Bose set-ups I have heard. Now that I have spent some time actively listening to some Bose sytems I have noticed a frequency gap when its pointed out to me


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Maukey* /forum/post/18913676
> 
> 
> (1) LOL
> 
> (2) LOL x 2
> 
> (3) He actually returned his Bose
> 
> (4) You could say that about any person on this forum who prefers one sound set-up over another.
> 
> 
> If you've ever read any of Davyo's posts, the last thing you would refer to him as would be a Bose homer LOL. He actually agrees that Bose is overpriced. He just disagrees with people who bash Bose pretty much blindly and based off what others have said.
> 
> 
> You may ask why am I defending Davyo. I was in the same boat not too long ago, and Davyo helped me out. I had tried out a variety of Receiver/Sub/2.1 and soundbar combinations IN MY HOME. I also had the Bose Cinemate II GS 2.1 System. I was very impressed with the sound quality and style of the Bose. However, due to bashers on these and other forums, I tried my hardest not to like the Bose. I was literally looking for faults in the sound quality. But even after comparing it to other systems IN MY HOME, I kept coming back to the Bose. My wife, kids, and few of my closest friends all agreed. Were there systems that sounded just as good, and arguably better? Yea. But the Bose overall out did the other systems. The Bose had the style and stealth factor of the soundbar systems but with better sound, and it stood it's ground with some of the more powerful Receiver/Sub/2.1 combinations I tried. Here's what got me, the Bose competed while only outputting DTS and DD. Some of these other systems and soundbars were outputting LPCM/TrueHD/DTSMaster.
> 
> 
> Saying all of this to say, OP, pick what's best for you and what you like. If you're able to, take a look at other $450 systems and see how they stack up in your home. As far as the convenience, stealth, and minimalist design, I can tell you that I haven't found one that competes with the Bose. Despite what some will tell you, the sound is extremely good, and Bose to me still simulates surround sound better than any other 2.1/3.1 system I've found.



Hey Maukey,,, thank for the support and defense,,,, most cool of you.


And yes,, I would agree with you 100%,,, in the right room with the right set-up the Cinemate can be very impressive and there is not much out there, if anything, that has the same form factor that some poeple need and want.


I will say the comments made by "cacophony777" have been at the very least entertaining,,,, and he has made me laugh more than a few times.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18914528
> 
> 
> The fact that you choose to mention brands like Yamaha, Onkyo, and Sony as your core examples for alternative speakers you've heard/owned tells me all I need to know. Funny stuff is right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heh. More funny stuff! Seeing that the live sound for most bands is horrible this all makes sense, and it also explains your hearing loss.




So you did not list that I also mentioned I had owned Polk, JBL and Energy, along with Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony as "some" examples of gear I have owned,,,, I guess you left out my Polk, JBL and Energy refrences by mistake,,, a typo on your part I would guess.


And if my examples are such crap I guess my question to you would be why are "you" on the "Home Theater In A Box" forum ?


Well since you think most of the bands you have seen have a horrible mix that tells me you've been going to the wrong clubs.


On side note "cacophony777" I will say our little spirted debate has been very entertaining.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18917239
> 
> 
> And if my examples are such crap I guess my question to you would be why are "you" on the "Home Theater In A Box" forum ?



To *give* advice, obviously. And I'm not surprised you only hang out in this forum and "Soundbars". They are the only two audio forums on AVS where you'll occasionally find people naive enough to appreciate your advice.


And it probably also means you own a home theater in a box, which honestly is quite sad given your self proclaimed extensive experience with audio equipment.


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cacophony777* /forum/post/18917850
> 
> 
> To *give* advice, obviously. And I'm not surprised you only hang out in this forum and "Soundbars". They are the only two audio forums on AVS where you'll occasionally find people naive enough to appreciate your advice.
> 
> 
> And it probably also means you own a home theater in a box, which honestly is quite sad given your self proclaimed extensive experience with audio equipment.



Your here giving advice,,, interesting,,, so far your advice has been to bash a system Im sure you have never even tried out in your own home, slam members that find some benifits to getting or owning the Cinemate,,, and then suggesting Orbs (which are great speakers) but they dont offer the same form factor the Cinemate does.


I only hang-out on the Soundbars and HTIB forums you say,, I guess you didnt check the LCD, Plasma, Projectors and Camcorder area's of AVS.


You say, "I occasionally find people naive enough to appreciate my advice",,, well I will tell you what I do have, I have respect for fellow AVS members and try to always be open to understanding there wants and needs when offering advice, I also come here to learn about A/V products and make some friends while doing it.


What I have learned from you is you "think" your opinions and advice have more value than mine and some other members here, I have also learned that you are more interested in what you might percive as "winning" rather than having an open respectful debate about an A/V product.


Ohhh,,, and wrong again you are,,,,, I do not own a HTiB.


Davyo


----------



## cacophony777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18918788
> 
> 
> and then suggesting Orbs (which are great speakers) but they dont offer the same form factor the Cinemate does.



You keep saying this and it makes no sense. The link I provided includes a tiny amplifier ( http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=79 ), and the orb speakers themselves are smaller and better looking than the Cinemate ones.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18918788
> 
> 
> I only hang-out on the Soundbars and HTIB forums you say,, I guess you didnt check the LCD, Plasma, Projectors and Camcorder area's of AVS.



We're talking about audio knowledge, so mentioning that you also frequent those other forums is kind of pointless.


What audio set up do you have? Why don't you ever post on the Speakers forum?


And I never said I thought your opinions didn't have any value (or at least that's not what I meant). But I do think your suggestion to consider Bose is horrible advice, and to me that's very solid evidence that you haven't ever heard a good system.


Also, if you think that hearing the flagship Bose system in their $1 million acoustically treated room doesn't show it off as much as bringing it home, well, you have a lot to learn.


----------



## crazyrob425

Guys if you want to continue your pissing match do it through PMs and spare the rest of us cause your fighting here isn't helping either of your causes


----------



## davyo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crazyrob425* /forum/post/18919281
> 
> 
> Guys if you want to continue your pissing match do it through PMs and spare the rest of us cause your fighting here isn't helping either of your causes



Thanks for providing the picture of cacophony777.


But yes you are correct Rob,,, this back and forth between myself and the guy in the picture is not worth it,,,,, as far as PM's,,,, not a good idea.


I shall give "cacophony777" what he seems to need so badly.


Hey "cacophony777", I thought about everything you posted in ALL your postings and I have decided that you are right about everything.

Since coming to the realization that you are correct about everything we can now end this friendly debate,,,Im done.

Besides, I gota fly out the door, Im off to buy some Orbs.


Cheers

Davyo


----------



## cacophony777

The sad thing is that Dayvo actually chooses to post his photo despite looking even more pathetic than the guy in the "internet tough guy" shot.


----------



## gtommers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davyo* /forum/post/18920162
> 
> 
> Thanks for providing the picture of cacophony777.



I think it's clear who the photo resembles and it's not cacophony. Both you and the internet tough guy are straight out of 1983, except you look like you're part of a siegfried and roy show (or maybe the circus?).


Sorry but I've heard alarm clocks that sounded better than the Bose Cinemate.


----------



## Vinny Aquilino

cacophony777,

What kind of speakers and gear do you own now that is in your home?Please

tell us.


----------



## Nataku4ca




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crazyrob425* /forum/post/18919281
> 
> 
> Guys if you want to continue your pissing match do it through PMs and spare the rest of us cause your fighting here isn't helping either of your causes



(took pic out of quote to save some space)


I honestly started laughing (quietly) in the office when I saw that pic, it reminds me of something my friend said.


"Arguing on the Internet is like running at the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded" (just found out the actual phrase was this)


now... 1. no offense to the special Olympians 2. I heard another version that didn't offend anyone as much, but I just can't remember what it was.


back to the topic, my friend's friend left his CineMate at my house since last christmas (it's like he doesn't want it back =.=)


I just heard Onkyo 5300 and 7100 at Visions last week, and I honestly have to say... what a difference... CineMate can not compare to it at all...


But, of course, I'm no expert and this is only my 2nd/3rd posting here










anybody know when 7300 is coming out? I only saw coming soon on Onkyo's site and I'm not sure if I should wait for it or not before getting my own system


----------



## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nataku4ca* /forum/post/18937671
> 
> 
> 
> I just heard Onkyo 5300 and 7100 at Visions last week, and I honestly have to say... what a difference... CineMate can not compare to it at all...
> 
> 
> But, of course, I'm no expert and this is only my 2nd/3rd posting here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anybody know when 7300 is coming out? I only saw coming soon on Onkyo's site and I'm not sure if I should wait for it or not before getting my own system



Make a separate post with needs, wants, budget, and room size and you will get some help


The Onkyo 7300 has been released here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882120161 but all they did was update the reciever to have the new v1.4a HDMI ports


For the price you might be able to find something better I would think


----------



## Nataku4ca

oo ok Thanks, Onkyo didn't update their site =.=

I'll start new thread next time


----------



## Hyperjoe

Davyo, I must say you are so wrong that I actually bought a Cinemate II just to see how wrong you were and I must say your wrong is a nice compromise of space and sound. lol


Seriously, I am a musician and a minimalist. The Bose Mates are nice for they provide good sound with form and like you, have children where a fancy sound setup would only be a poor choice for their safety.


Some people just do not know how to allow for differences of opinion. After all, it is only an opinion.


----------



## nuggetz

Just saw this thread and thought I would chime in here since I too own the Bose Cinemate II system. Frys had it on special with the purchase of the Sammy I was looking to get so I figured I'd take the 30 days and try them out. Since they are not mounted properly - currently sitting below the TV and no where near ear height where I think they should be, they sound decent. I asked my wife to hold them up in the air so I could hear how they sounded at ear height and it was night and day. I figure a better set of speakers would sound that much better too.


For my ears, dialog doesn't come thru clearly enough with the Bose system. Not sure if its due to a lack of a center channel or just the quality of the speakers. Not sure if its the bose but I often times find myself turning on the tiny speakers in my 55 inch Sammy to add some clarity to the mids/highs 


Not sure what everyone is talking about regarding the subwoofer. To me it has plenty of boom for the room its in so I'm curious as to what a bigger/better subwoofer will get me in terms of sound quality. Will the lows be that much more clearer or just more bone rattling? The Bose seemed to rock the family room at moderate levels and I'm not really in the market for anything to house shaking. I just want the audio to sound amazing. I could use a bit of schooling on this subject as I haven't been able to test the sound differences between subs. I will say that the lows sound a bit too muffled/boomy if that makes any sense so maybe a proper sub will deliver cleaner lows.


Anyway, the Bose system is going back today as I knew I wasn't about to plop down 600 bucks for these with no way to expand to 5.1 in the future. I figured I would just appease the salesman since he was very patient even after I schooled him on the $99 HDMI cables he wanted to sell me  I was more curious than anything which is why I agreed to take them home and give them a try in my own living room. If anything, I now have a baseline.


I too am in the market for a good midrange receiver and this thread has been useful and still need to do more research.


----------



## saturatedfat

Quick question...you guys say you can build a 2.1 for less..is that setup able to mimic the surround sound like the Bose does?


Forgive me I'm new: (


----------



## Elihawk

I usual enjoy the civil and informative discussions on this forum, but this thread...not so much.

I have never owned Bose, except a crappy set of computer speakers. But two things seem to be clear...

-Bose hasn't been around as long as they have by simply fooling the uninformed public...

-And there seem to be a lot of systems that can match or exceed Bose in sound quality (a highly subjective statement, I admit) and are cheaper...


----------



## 97vobra

Figured I'd toss this out there... I owned the Cinemate II GS and returned it. It was very shrill and had no mid range or bottom end to it and definitely wasn't worth the price tag.


I ended up building a simple Sony 2.1 system for the same amount of money that sounds much better. (STR-DH820 Receiver, SS-F7000 speakers, SA-W3000 sub). Most if not all receivers these days include the Dolby Pro Logic features to simulate surround sound if you're into that. I personally am not. I can't stand "simulated" anything. 2.1 should be 2.1 and 5.1 should be 5.1.


You are better off piecing your own 2.1 system together from my personal experience. I didn't even buy high end stuff and it sounds better than the CineMate II GS system did.


----------



## wanderjahr

I know AVS bashes Bose a lot. I was recently in the market for a 2.1 for my living room. At the end of the day, I wanted something better than my TV speakers. I liked the Bose system because it was exactly what I was looking for in terms of how easy it was to set up, the aesthetics, and how well the speakers functioned. I did a lot of research and the Cinemate II was what was closest to my desires when I set off to buy a system. I've had it for a year now and I am very happy with my purchase. I just wanted to put this out there as a dissenting voice to what is popular here in the forums. Maybe the audiophiles have their points in regards to other brands, but this model was exactly what I was looking for when I was looking for it. No regrets here.


----------



## Elihawk

wander, I think there are many satisified Bose customers. Most forum members are just pointing out that there are many systems as good or better and often for less money. For me, Bose sounds good at first, but just hurts my ears after a few hours.


----------



## wanderjahr

Valid point : )


I'm no Bose fanboy, nor am I an audiophile, admittedly. I'm sure most people on this forum know exponentially more about audio gear than I. I just wanted to voice my opinion on what I own.


----------



## Elihawk

Alot of folks on this forum know alot about build quality, components and electronics...however, what sounds good to you is what is important. I have a buddy who has 3-4 Bose products including the Bose Wave system and swears they sound better than anything he has heard..


----------



## Maukey

I know the statement I'm about to make is going to be blasphemy on this forum, but I just moved from the popular DENON DHT-591BA to the Bose Cinemate GS II. For me the Bose has better sound quality in my Living Room; and that's given the fact that it doesn't support DTS-HD or TrueHD. Before everyone goes assuming and asking questions, let me make these points:

1) Yes I ran the Audissey MultiEQ Setup

2) No the system didn't have phase issues

3) I switched to the Bose simply because I thought it sounded really good at my local HHGregg when they were demoing the Iron Man 2 movie. It also didn't hurt that it's a smaller, cleaner, better looking system to me.


The surround sound effect is simply unmatched for me when compared to any other 2.1 system I've heard. I honestly feel that there are sounds coming from behind me. Without listening really intently, I couldn't tell a difference in surround sound when comparing the Denon and this system. Now before you kill this statement, my living room is a VERY narrow rectangle with four walls and one small window; perfect for the bose system surround sound simulation. Also, most people don't know that if you hook the bose system to the optical out on your TV as bose recommends, you're feeding the system a 2.1 signal thereby losing a good portion of the surround/enveloping sound. You must run the optical directly to the source so that that this system can work it's magic on the 5.1 signal. It's night and day!


Anyway, I said all of that to say, OP, use your own hearing in your own environment, and make your own decision and don't care what others say PERIOD. If it works for you, go for it. Despite what self-proclaimed audiophiles say, Bose does have a place in society LOL.


----------



## Elihawk

Again, whatever sounds good to your ears is what you should purchase...


However, when Sound and Vision tested the freq response of the Bose Aucostimas speaker system, they found significant gaps at the very low, very high and at the crossover point between the bass module (Bose doesn't make a sub) and speakers. Many speaker systems have limitations at one of these three points...but very few have limitations at ALL THREE! I would assume the same is true for the Cinemate system...


----------



## KickItUpANotch

it's also important to understand when you demo speakers in a store it could be afar far cry from what you'll experience in your house. this is specifcally true for a place like best buy. That store with the in-aisle demos is nothing like what you'll hear in your house. keep that in mind, of course.


----------



## Maukey

Quote:

Originally Posted by *KickItUpANotch* 
it's also important to understand when you demo speakers in a store it could be afar far cry from what you'll experience in your house. this is specifcally true for a place like best buy. That store with the in-aisle demos is nothing like what you'll hear in your house. keep that in mind, of course.
Completely agree with this statement. I know most people don't want to go through this, but the best way to test different systems is to by and return a few so that you can listen in your home. I tried many before settling on the Cinemate GS II, including but not limited to the Denon DHT-591, Sony CT-350 Soundbar System, Bose Cinemate II, etc. The Bose Cinemate II GS had the cleanest sound for me, and it does an unbelievable job of simulating surround sound in my living room.


----------



## HeavyTwenty

 http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....sc1&lang=en-CA $300 Jamo™5.0 Surround Home Cinema System


That Dayton sub that was linked earlier $120 ($420 total).

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-52...5012055&sr=1-5 $180 ($600 total) Pioneer VSX-520-K 5.1 Home Theater Receiver

***Disclaimer*** I have no personal experience with any of these products but they look better than Bose lol.


edit: I just reread the original post. Living upstairs so subwoofer maybe unsuitable. Could just get a stereo amp + decent pair of used tower speakers. That would be quality sound, but lack the home theater experience of surrounds and low frequency effects.


----------



## Jinjuku




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wanderjahr* /forum/post/20502597
> 
> 
> I know AVS bashes Bose a lot. I was recently in the market for a 2.1 for my living room. At the end of the day, I wanted something better than my TV speakers. I liked the Bose system because it was exactly what I was looking for in terms of how easy it was to set up, the aesthetics, and how well the speakers functioned. I did a lot of research and the Cinemate II was what was closest to my desires when I set off to buy a system. I've had it for a year now and I am very happy with my purchase. I just wanted to put this out there as a dissenting voice to what is popular here in the forums. Maybe the audiophiles have their points in regards to other brands, but this model was exactly what I was looking for when I was looking for it. No regrets here.



Deals like this (now expired) are why I don't recommend Bose.


This will stomp the Cinemate II. If you want to pay an inflated price and don't care about SQ then you found your system.


For OTHER people that are asking however there is always something better out there. You spend your $$ anyway you want. For the others that ask the community here will always try to do better.


Since you only have 3 posts I wonder what you would have purchased if you had thought to perform due diligence 1st?


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## CHAVAN30

i did my due diligence on my cinemate and quite enjoy the sound. i couldnt have huge speakers sitting around due to the room, and the bose fit in right with my plasma and they sound nice. i say if they sound good to you, get them.


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## joe01880




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AudioDummy* /forum/post/18425869
> 
> 
> As my name suggests, I'm quite the novice when it comes to all things audio.....
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.
> 
> 
> I never in my life purchased a speaker, never was a big music person, and always settled for the built-in tv speakers...
> 
> 
> Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, please understand, it's hard for me to distinguish quality - certainly, my initial reaction of the system is that it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is overpriced at 599....
> 
> 
> As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.
> 
> 
> Normally, I research and then buy, this time my impulse got the best of me...
> 
> 
> If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... your help would be great.



Without reading all the Bose bashing im sure thats in this thread, here's my 2 cents worth. After you have the Cinimates hooked up did/do you like the way they sound?

You can kick yourself in the arse over, "did i get the best", "did i spend to much", can i get more and everyone will have an opinion when all that matters is do you like the way they sound..whatever you end up with. And all this crap costs way to much!

I will add this, i have a 24 year old set of Bose AM5's..TWENTY FOUR years old. I use them to this day, and a set of 901's older than that. Were they over priced? Divided by 24 years or more i dont think so. At one time or the other they have been ran on a Kenwood, 2 different Yamaha, a Carver and a Pioneer reciever, although the Carver is a component system. If you kept your Cinimates, enjoy. if you didnt, enjoy whatever you end up with.


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## Elihawk

In another thread, I read a link to an a/v magazine article...sorry cannot remember which...which compared product cost to asking price. Bose had something like a 80-90% mark up, where most speaker-makers wher 40-60%. Just shows, you ain't get much in the way of quality drivers and electronics in a Bose system...

But again, if it sounds good at your house, who cares!?


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## joe01880




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elihawk* /forum/post/20525670
> 
> 
> In another thread, I read a link to an a/v magazine article...sorry cannot remember which...which compared product cost to asking price. Bose had something like a 80-90% mark up, where most speaker-makers wher 40-60%. Just shows, you ain't get much in the way of quality drivers and electronics in a Bose system...
> 
> But again, if it sounds good at your house, who cares!?



Thats one way to look at it. It also shows that Bose spends a lot more money in advertising and marketing. I havnt seen an ad on TV for Jamo, Klipsch, HK, Yamaha H/T or anyone else but i do see stuff on Bose, those comercials aint cheap and with products lasting 20+ years they dont see a lot of return customers either.


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## cshepard

Ah, Bose...

Better Sound Through Marketing...


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