# Epson EH-LS800B/W Super UST LCD Projectors



## Pulse1

All Products | Projectors | Home Cinema | EH-LS800 | Epson United Kingdom


Turn your home into a cinema: Super-short-Throw ✓ 4K PRO-UHD✓ AndroidTV✓ Sound by Yamaha✓




www.epson.co.uk


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## ProjectionHead

Epson selected 3 of us to help Launch this new projector here in the USA.
I won’t make you suffer through those other guys videos so here’s a link to the only one worth watching; our first look video: 🤣




Update 10/31: @Dave Harper ’s in-depth review is now live:Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Ultra Short Throw Projector Review


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## Sonny Red

interesting specs and very bright but 2 majors drawbacks :

0.28 projection ratio… That’s a lot for a UST
No Dolby Vision


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## Pulse1

Sonny Red said:


> interesting specs and very bright but 2 majors drawbacks :
> 
> 0.28 projection ratio… That’s a lot for a UST
> No Dolby Vision


That's the zoom function ratio you have been looking at. The Throw ratio is 0.16 - 0.40:1 which is probably the shortest throw ratio, that's why Epson are calling it a Super UST. Also goes from 0.905" from the wall/screen for 80" up to 11.22" from the wall/screen for 150" sizes. Still waiting on more details but could be a great option for anyone that suffers from RBE


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## Sonny Red

Pulse1 said:


> That's the zoom function ratio you have been looking at. The Throw ratio is 0.16 - 0.40:1 which is probably the shortest throw ratio, that's why Epson are calling it a Super UST. Also goes from 80" upto 150" sizes. Still waiting on more details but could be a great option for anyone that suffers from RBE


My bad.

0.16 is really good


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## JRock3x8

If that 3300 pound price holds up when they bring it stateside, that's going to be an extremely compelling option.

The USD is closer to on par with GBP than it has been in years. Approx 1.20 now. Historically closer to 1.50.

edit : looking for evidence of geometric correction, not seeing it. and I'm still bowled over by 4000 lumens at 150" - how is that even possible? This thing seems like the king for people who struggle with placement on UST PJs. and correct me if I'm wrong but this would be the first variable throw UST?


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## PixelPusher15

JRock3x8 said:


> If that 3300 pound price holds up when they bring it stateside, that's going to be an extremely compelling option.
> 
> The USD is closer to on par with GBP than it has been in years. Approx 1.20 now. Historically closer to 1.50.
> 
> edit : looking for evidence of geometric correction, not seeing it. and I'm still bowled over by 4000 lumens at 150" - how is that even possible? This thing seems like the king for people who struggle with placement on UST PJs. and correct me if I'm wrong but this would be the first variable throw UST?


That 3300 includes VAT so its actually closer to 2600


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## juic-E-juice

Epson’s prior USTs were DOA due to horrible design on top of horrible throw ratio. It appears that they went back to the drawing board and put the deserved effort in to properly compete in this space. It’s no secret that the draw here is the brightness along with gaming capabilities. Unless there is a revolutionary DMD based low lag UST on the horizon, this may be the one I’ve been holding out for.


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## mirzank

Pulse1 said:


> That's the zoom function ratio you have been looking at. The Throw ratio is 0.16 - 0.40:1 which is probably the shortest throw ratio, that's why Epson are calling it a Super UST. Also goes from 80" upto 150" sizes. Still waiting on more details but could be a great option for anyone that suffers from RBE


I thought all ust’s have a fixed throw ratio? How is a variable 0.16-0.4 possible ?

idid Some Googling but couldn’t find a straight answer, is 3lcd the same as triple laser or different? What’s the simple comparison?
How would this Epson compare to something like the formovie theatre ? I really like the super short throw ratio on this.


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## aerodynamics

mirzank said:


> How would this Epson compare to something like the formovie theatre ? I really like the super short throw ratio on this.


They addressed the major complaints of the LS500 (periscope lens, long throw) and kept the good (brightness, input lag). But the price is very telling and I bet the light source is the same, which means poor contrast and black levels. The T1 should trounce this in those areas. The Epson _might_ look better in a bright room because of its sheer brightness. I’m purely speculating but if this was using the UB panels from the 5050 (which is what Epson _should_ do), we’re talking about a $5-6k UST easily.


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## mirzank

aerodynamics said:


> They addressed the major complaints of the LS500 (periscope lens, long throw) and kept the good (brightness, input lag). But the price is very telling and I bet the light source is the same, which means poor contrast and black levels. The T1 should trounce this in those areas. The Epson _might_ look better in a bright room because of its sheer brightness. I’m purely speculating but if this was using the UB panels from the 5050 (which is what Epson _should_ do), we’re talking about a $5-6k UST easily.


I don’t have any experience or knowledge of Epson projectors but yes I was also wondering how the price is so reasonable, must be some trade off since all major brand ust’s seem to be in the $3500+ range with the good ones 5-6k as you pointed out.
I project on a plain white wall so contrast already suffers with my formovie, but I’m happy with it other than wishing for a shorter throw.


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## ProjectionHead

aerodynamics said:


> They addressed the major complaints of the LS500 (periscope lens, long throw) and kept the good (brightness, input lag). But the price is very telling and I bet the light source is the same, which means poor contrast and black levels. The T1 should trounce this in those areas. The Epson _might_ look better in a bright room because of its sheer brightness. I’m purely speculating but if this was using the UB panels from the 5050 (which is what Epson _should_ do), we’re talking about a $5-6k UST easily.


_If _this model is being released in the USA, you should expect me to have my hands on it early and have actual contrast measurements published as soon as I am allowed…


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## Pulse1

mirzank said:


> I thought all ust’s have a fixed throw ratio? How is a variable 0.16-0.4 possible ?
> 
> idid Some Googling but couldn’t find a straight answer, is 3lcd the same as triple laser or different? What’s the simple comparison?
> How would this Epson compare to something like the formovie theatre ? I really like the super short throw ratio on this.


Like the Epson EH-LS500 UST this model will also have a Digital Zoom function where you can adjust the size of the image


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## 3sprit

It would be better not to use digital controls.


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## JoeBoy73

Not a review...just a live look.


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## JRock3x8

this isn't digital adjustment on the throw is it?


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## jakechoy

one more month! will be interesting to see if it lives up to specs.


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## JRock3x8

There are a whole lot of things being written about this projector which would be bonkers if true.

The variable throw of 0.16 to 0.40 - is this optical or digital? Anyone have a source on that?

From notebook check : "the projector has an input lag time of less than 20 ms and up to 240 Hz 2D vertical refresh rate "








Epson EpiqVision EH-LS800 super-ultra-short-throw projector launches for 150-in image


Epson has launched a new home cinema projector, the EH-LS800. The "super-ultra-short-throw” projector has a throw ratio of 0.16:1, allowing you to cast an image 150-in (~3.81 m) wide from a distance of 285 mm (~11.2-in). The LS800 has a built-in 2.1 channel Yamaha sound system, plus Google...




www.notebookcheck.net





So now we know they are using the bigger chip which explains the higher brightness : "The EH-LS800B (Black) and EH-LS800W (White) is a 4K projector with *0.62 inch C2 panel*which has a native resolution of 1,920 x 1,080 pixels and over a *XPR shifting* a picture in *full 4K UHD resolution to the screen* "
same source says no 3D : "*Unfortunately, 3D is not supported* "
phone app geometric correction








GAMINGDEPUTY


‏‏‎‎‏‏‎ ‎News, Reviews & Insights



www.gamingdeputy.com





Who has the source on the light source? LED panels?

Swedish blog is claiming this is laser - that has to be a mistake, right?
"The projector uses laser light instead of a regular lamp, and the laser has an estimated lifespan of 35,000 hours. That’s a lot of TV watching. "


https://sweden.postsen.com/news/31570/IFA-2022-Epson-EH-LS800B-laser-projector.html



edit tech radar calls it a 3LCD in its link but then calls it a laser in the write up...? 



https://www.techradar.com/news/ifa-2022





https://www.techradar.com/news/epsons-striking-new-projector-is-bright-enough-to-light-up-your-living-room



I can only assume at this price point we are talking single laser and not triple. Also if it was triple they would lead with that.

If this thing can do 1080 or 1440 at 120 it would have a huge leg up on the rest of the market. I don't believe for one second that is true but it's fun to think about. And if that brightness is 75% of what they claim that's also going to be a really compelling option.

I want to hear more about this thing.


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## 3sprit

The lamp is probably laser but has nothing to do with other trilaser projectors.
This projector is not DLP but 3LCD.


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## jsm88

Who has the source on the light source? LED panels?
Swedish blog is claiming this is laser - that has to be a mistake said:


> https://sweden.postsen.com/news/31570/IFA-2022-Epson-EH-LS800B-laser-projector.html
> 
> 
> [/URL]
> 
> edit tech radar calls it a 3LCD in its link but then calls it a laser in the write up...?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/news/ifa-2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/news/epsons-striking-new-projector-is-bright-enough-to-light-up-your-living-room
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume at this price point we are talking single laser and not triple. Also if it was triple they would lead with that.
> 
> If this thing can do 1080 or 1440 at 120 it would have a huge leg up on the rest of the market. I don't believe for one second that is true but it's fun to think about. And if that brightness is 75% of what they claim that's also going to be a really compelling option.
> 
> I want to hear more about this thing.


Epson’s own Brit site is up - clearly (graphically) states “LASER”. Given that it’s a 3LCD it doesn’t need three lasers, and given epson’s history of reliable lumens claims the 4000 Lumens sounds game changing for HDR and those of us who never project less than 150”









All Products | Projectors | Home Cinema | EH-LS800 | Epson United Kingdom


Turn your home into a cinema: Super-short-Throw ✓ 4K PRO-UHD✓ AndroidTV✓ Sound by Yamaha✓




www.epson.co.uk


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## jsm88

jsm88 said:


> Epson’s own Brit site is up - clearly (graphically) states “LASER”. Given that it’s a 3LCD it doesn’t need three lasers, and given epson’s history of reliable lumens claims the 4000 Lumens sounds game changing for HDR and those of us who never project less than 150”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Products | Projectors | Home Cinema | EH-LS800 | Epson United Kingdom
> 
> 
> Turn your home into a cinema: Super-short-Throw ✓ 4K PRO-UHD✓ AndroidTV✓ Sound by Yamaha✓
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.epson.co.uk


Also, $3,150 at current exchange rates - we’ll see but that makes a U.S. price of $2,999 pretty likely. Was planning on buying the Formovie but at the very least need to wait for a head-to-head here given the difference in distribution and other issues.


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## 3sprit

3300£ = 3800€
3300£ = 3800$
🤷‍♂️









EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia


A casa come al cinema Immergiti in film e videogiochi con questo elegante e conveniente videoproiettore 4K PRO-UHD1 con cui potrai avere immagini fino a 150 pollici posizionandolo vicino alla parete. Per un gaming appassionante: prova la nostra nuova modalità di gioco con un ritardo di ingresso...




www.epson.it


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## jsm88

3sprit said:


> 3300£ = 3800€
> 3300£ = 3800$
> 🤷‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia
> 
> 
> A casa come al cinema Immergiti in film e videogiochi con questo elegante e conveniente videoproiettore 4K PRO-UHD1 con cui potrai avere immagini fino a 150 pollici posizionandolo vicino alla parete. Per un gaming appassionante: prova la nostra nuova modalità di gioco con un ritardo di ingresso...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.epson.it


… I’ll do you the favor of assuming you‘re a European and don’t understand that the land of the free doesn’t have a VAT - or a constantly declining currency 

ncl. VAT (£2,749.99 ex. VAT). 2749 pounds is $3,166 - today, by November I’m betting it will work out to an even 3k.


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## 3sprit

Bye 👋


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## jsm88

3sprit said:


> Bye 👋


Buh bye


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## JRock3x8

jsm88 said:


> those of us who never project less than 150”


PREACH IT BROTHER!


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## JRock3x8

jsm88 said:


> Also, $3,150 at current exchange rates - we’ll see but that makes a U.S. price of $2,999 pretty likely. Was planning on buying the Formovie but at the very least need to wait for a head-to-head here given the difference in distribution and other issues.


I'm not expecting this thing to outperform formovie - but if the variable throw and brightness hold up that might be enough to have me pick this PJ instead of the formovie. I've never been a huge picture quality guy anyways.


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## jsm88

JRock3x8 said:


> I've never been a huge picture quality guy anyways.


uh… preach it….


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## JRock3x8

jsm88 said:


> uh… preach it….


careful - they'll hear! and then we'll get deported!


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## PixelPusher15

jsm88 said:


> Given that it’s a 3LCD it doesn’t need three lasers


3LCD doesn't mean you don't want RGB lasers. A projector can only dish out what spectrum is available within its light source. A single blue laser actually has less available native color gamut than a lamp. Here's a diagram of a 3 chip LCOS projector (the GTZ380) with a red and two blue lasers:


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## JRock3x8

PixelPusher15 said:


> 3LCD doesn't mean you don't want RGB lasers.


but given the price don't you think this is single laser light source?


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## Pulse1

JRock3x8 said:


> but given the price don't you think this is single laser light source?


It's a single Blue laser with 3 LCD Panels.


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## ProjectionHead

This unit was supposed to be under embargo until CEDIA but the cat is out of the bag.
I have my sample unit on the way and will be doing measurements/review asap and posting as soon as allowed by Epson.


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## ProjectionHead

jsm88 said:


> … I’ll do you the favor of assuming you‘re a European and don’t understand that the land of the free doesn’t have a VAT - or a constantly declining currency
> 
> ncl. VAT (£2,749.99 ex. VAT). 2749 pounds is $3,166 - today, by November I’m betting it will work out to an even 3k.


I expect the USA price to be higher, assuming around $3,500 but nohing has officially been released yet in that regard.


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## jsm88

PixelPusher15 said:


> 3LCD doesn't mean you don't want RGB lasers. A projector can only dish out what spectrum is available within its light source. A single blue laser actually has less available native color gamut than a lamp. Here's a diagram of a 3 chip LCOS projector (the GTZ380) with a red and two blue lasers:
> View attachment 3330957


Interesting - I assumed there was some significant difference since the lcd provides the color while the dmd does not, but you know far more about these things. Is there any difference in the transparency of an lcd vs an lcos?


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## Pulse1

ProjectionHead said:


> This unit was supposed to be under embargo until CEDIA but the cat is out of the bag.
> I have my sample unit on the way and will be doing measurements/review asap and posting as soon as allowed by Epson.


Looking forward to that Brian and hopefully you can then clear alot up that we don't know yet


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## PixelPusher15

jsm88 said:


> Interesting - I assumed there was some significant difference since the lcd provides the color while the dmd does not, but you know far more about these things. Is there any difference in the transparency of an lcd vs an lcos?


LCD is a transmissive display tech. LCOS is a transmissive reflective display tech. LCOS is similar to LCD but it has a reflective layer that the light bounces off of and then passes through the LC layer again. DLP is purely reflective. 

A 1LCD chip provides the color but a 3LCD does not, the color is still divided into RGB from the light source. 

Here's a 3LCD diagram









An article on LCOS, LCD, and DLP that is great if you want to go a little deeper. Even if you don't, it is a quick skim for some easy nuggets in the diagrams





LCD, LCoS, or DLP: Choosing a Projector Imaging Technology


Trying to decide among LCD, LCoS, and DLP projection? Our deep dive into projection tech will help you make the right choice for your application and needs.



www.projectorcentral.com


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## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> This unit was supposed to be under embargo until CEDIA but the cat is out of the bag.
> I have my sample unit on the way and will be doing measurements/review asap and posting as soon as allowed by Epson.


You should pair it with that 150” CLR screen. =D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jsm88

PixelPusher15 said:


> LCD is a transmissive display tech. LCOS is a transmissive reflective display tech. LCOS is similar to LCD but it has a reflective layer that the light bounces off of and then passes through the LC layer again. DLP is purely reflective.
> 
> A 1LCD chip provides the color but a 3LCD does not, the color is still divided into RGB from the light source.
> 
> Here's a 3LCD diagram
> View attachment 3331080
> 
> 
> An article on LCOS, LCD, and DLP that is great if you want to go a little deeper. Even if you don't, it is a quick skim for some easy nuggets in the diagrams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LCD, LCoS, or DLP: Choosing a Projector Imaging Technology
> 
> 
> Trying to decide among LCD, LCoS, and DLP projection? Our deep dive into projection tech will help you make the right choice for your application and needs.
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorcentral.com


Very helpful, thanks, all these uears of fiddling with projectors and I always thought the 3LCD was there to given you stronger colors through RGB panels (giving up the crispness of the dlp for better color rendering) which also seemed to be the reputation of the epsons vs the infocus/optima/benq/et al. Amazing how you can fail to understand something when you have a preconceived notion


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## PixelPusher15

jsm88 said:


> Very helpful, thanks, all these uears of fiddling with projectors and I always thought the 3LCD was there to given you stronger colors through RGB panels (giving up the crispness of the dlp for better color rendering) which also seemed to be the reputation of the epsons vs the infocus/optima/benq/et al. Amazing how you can fail to understand something when you have a preconceived notion


Well, you’re not entirely wrong. 3LCD usually can be brighter and maintain color vs 1DLP. But any 3 chip projector can do that, including 3DLP.


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## jsm88

I’m sure there’s a good explanation for this but why is Epson selling this as shooting a 150” screen but, “Epson SilverFlex Ambient Light Rejecting Screen (4) — Available and sold separately in two sizes, 100" and 120". No one seems to sell their matched screens with a ust over 120“


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## jsm88

Fwiw, all the details of that listing without the link. Seems they’re splitting the difference on the list price to start with:

*Product details*

Model NameLS800WHardware InterfaceUSB, HDMIMounting TypeTable MountBrandEpsonDisplay resolution3840 x 2160Item Weight27.6 Pounds

Screen Size up to 150" — Get closer to courtside for sports and gaming, or center stage for your favorite movies, with an immersive big picture; unlike regular-throw projectors, it offers hassle-free placement, projecting images up to 150" from just a few inches away 
4K PRO-UHD (2) — A new type of 4K experience, utilizing advanced processing for resolution enhancement, color and image processing 
Ideal for Bright Rooms — True 3-chip 3LCD technology displays a full 4,000 lumens (3) of color and white brightness for every frame, allowing for outstanding color accuracy while maintaining excellent color brightness without any distracting “rainbowing” or “color brightness” issues seen with other ultra short-throw projection technologies 
Modern Ultra Short-Throw Laser Design — Sleek ultra short-throw laser design seamlessly complements a variety of décor styles and audio/video furniture; features multi-point picture adjustment and individually adaptable feet for quick and easy setup 
Supports the Latest Streaming, Gaming and Cable Boxes — Take maximum advantage of your favorite gaming consoles and streaming devices with three HDMI ports; fully compatible with virtually all color formats, depths and spaces while simultaneously supporting 4K HDR (1) content at a full 60 Hz; ideal for gaming content, one HDMI port is dedicated for gaming and supports 1080p/120 Hz signals 
Auto Contrast Enhancement — The ambient light sensor automatically optimizes the picture brightness according to the amount of environmental light, resulting in more contrast and a better sense of depth in the image 
Epson SilverFlex Ambient Light Rejecting Screen (4) — Available and sold separately in two sizes, 100" and 120", these screens are engineered to absorb up to 90% of the ambient light to increase contrast and produce an astonishingly crisp picture 
Amazing Built-in Sound from Yamaha — Built-in 2.1ch virtual surround system designed by Yamaha exclusively for Epson creates immersive sound performance with presets for TV, Sports Movies and Music; connect your smartphone via Bluetooth to use as standalone speaker
Smart Streaming Capability — Latest Android TV (5) interface with a simple-to-use remote—including voice search with built-in Google Assistant; watch all your favorite streaming channels including Amazon Prime, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, YouTube and more; even stream live TV with apps like YouTube TV (6)
Outstanding Warranty & Service — 2-year limited warranty; two-business-day replacement with free shipping


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## JRock3x8

"one HDMI port is dedicated for gaming and supports 1080p/120 Hz signals "

holy ****. That's the first UST to support 120, right?

edit : data sheet confirms the variable throw, another UST first : 


https://neon.epson-europe.com/content/open/datasheet.php?id=36911&cc=GB&lc=en


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## TimHuey

My problem with the 150" UST projectors is in a 8 foot ceiling room it is hard to find one that will project the image on the wall. Even putting the projectors on the floor the image is too high at 150". I have a 16x9 150" image now from by rear wall mounted projector and would love to switch to a UST but I can't find one that will project it on an 8' feet ceiling wall. The distance from the wall is important but so is the distance from the projector to the bottom of the image. As the image gets bigger that distance keeps going up.


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## timetrip0

Looks like the former listing was removed. I still have it saved on a list for my account, but returns a missing page upon clicking through.


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## noonsa

I know it's pretty early, but does anybody have any opinions or insight on how this one would compare with the Formovie Theater or BenQ 7050? Price seems similar.
I was leaning toward the Formovie, but the shorter throw, better gaming aspect, and Epson brand name are all very attractive for me.


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## JRock3x8

TimHuey said:


> My problem with the 150" UST projectors is in a 8 foot ceiling room it is hard to find one that will project the image on the wall. Even putting the projectors on the floor the image is too high at 150". I have a 16x9 150" image now from by rear wall mounted projector and would love to switch to a UST but I can't find one that will project it on an 8' feet ceiling wall. The distance from the wall is important but so is the distance from the projector to the bottom of the image. As the image gets bigger that distance keeps going up.


this PJ should work for that - that 0.16 throw makes placement EXTREMELY flexible.


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## JRock3x8

noonsa said:


> I know it's pretty early, but does anybody have any opinions or insight on how this one would compare with the Formovie Theater or BenQ 7050? Price seems similar.
> I was leaning toward the Formovie, but the shorter throw, better gaming aspect, and Epson brand name are all very attractive for me.


wrong thread


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## noonsa

JRock3x8 said:


> wrong thread


Why's that? I am asking about the Epson EH-LS800?


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## Pulse1

noonsa said:


> I know it's pretty early, but does anybody have any opinions or insight on how this one would compare with the Formovie Theater or BenQ 7050? Price seems similar.
> I was leaning toward the Formovie, but the shorter throw, better gaming aspect, and Epson brand name are all very attractive for me.


And no Rainbows on the Epson due to being LCD. This projector could end up being the best bang for buck UST on the market when it's released. Hopefully it throws a great image with decent black levels and then Epson will be at the top of the hill with this model.


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## JRock3x8

noonsa said:


> Why's that? I am asking about the Epson EH-LS800?


the way you wrote the post, it sounded like you were asking for a comparison of the benq and formovie, neither of which are the Epson.


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## nuevo_eph

jsm88 said:


> Auto Contrast Enhancement — The ambient light sensor automatically optimizes the picture brightness according to the amount of environmental light, resulting in more contrast and a better sense of depth in the image


Is this a feature other USTs have or is it fairly unique? I can see how it could make sense and useful.


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## jsm88

nuevo_eph said:


> Is this a feature other USTs have or is it fairly unique? I can see how it could make sense and useful.


I think Epson has had this on their other projectors in the past - it will be interesting to see how it performs in a ust with 4000 Lumens to play with - might be able to overpower some daytime issues without having to be set totally out of whack for evenings.


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## Pulse1

nuevo_eph said:


> Is this a feature other USTs have or is it fairly unique? I can see how it could make sense and useful.


LG also have an auto brightness feature on their latest USTs also. I never used it though when i had the HU715Q so can't comment on how good it was.


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## aerodynamics

Per @ProjectionHead at the Projectorscreen.com blog:


> The Epson LS500 covered 90% of the rec.709 and 91% of the DCI-P3 color space. The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space. This means it's capable of producing up to 1.07 billion colors.


I was wrong. They are clearly using a different light engine (or a filter) this time around.


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## nuevo_eph

Is anyone caring that this isn't eARC capable? I suppose you will just have to send your blu-ray to your AVR instead of this first.


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## JackB

When Kraine tested the Epson LS12000 Laser front projector he measured contrast at 3300 Native, 14000 Dynamic. Can a UST(Epson LS800) using similar technology match this contrast performance? If it can it would be a winner for sure as most all of the reviews of the LS12000 have been very favorable.

That being said, it seems that Epson would be shooting themselves in the foot if they released a product with comparable performance to their home flagship for $2,000 less.


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## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> You should pair it with that 150” CLR screen. =D
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn straight we will!


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## ProjectionHead

jsm88 said:


> I’m sure there’s a good explanation for this but why is Epson selling this as shooting a 150” screen but, “Epson SilverFlex Ambient Light Rejecting Screen (4) — Available and sold separately in two sizes, 100" and 120". No one seems to sell their matched screens with a ust over 120“


It’s because no one makes a screen above 120” due to limitations with the height of lenticular surfaces. The 150” Spectra Projection that we just got in fuses two surfaces together to make that extra height. There is a visible seam about 1 pixel high but I can’t see it past 7 feet away.


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## PixelPusher15

JackB said:


> When Kraine tested the Epson LS12000 Laser front projector he measured contrast at 3300 Native, 14000 Dynamic. Can a UST(Epson LS800) using similar technology match this contrast performance? If it can it would be a winner for sure as most all of the reviews of the LS12000 have been very favorable.
> 
> That being said, it seems that Epson would be shooting themselves in the foot if they released a product with comparable performance to their home flagship for $2,000 less.


To match it Epson would have to be using their UB tech. I didn’t see it in their marketing so I’m guessing it’s using the normal LCDs which would max out around 2000:1 but is usually less than that.


----------



## aerodynamics

Who's the moderator with the hard on for deleting my posts? First one was deleted for having a retail link. Fine. Second post was me basically saying it was available for pre-order (did not include a link this time) and did not include a price....and that got deleted for...


> Reason: NO WHERE TO BUY OR PRICE TALK


 If you went thru every thread and deleted every post guilty of the same infraction, the post count on this website would drop by 60%. Geez lighten up.


----------



## JRock3x8

Brian - you clearly have one of these - when can you talk about it?


----------



## slickrock

ProjectionHead said:


> It’s because no one makes a screen above 120” due to limitations with the height of lenticular surfaces. The 150” Spectra Projection that we just got in fuses two surfaces together to make that extra height. There is a visible seam about 1 pixel high but I can’t see it past 7 feet away.


This is interesting. For about a month I was using a T1 with the 120" Hisense L9P screen and enjoyed the "TV-esque" aspect of the setup where it had more utility in throughout the day. When I returned the screen I just projected the image on the wall and bumped up the image size to 150". Well, there's no way I'm walking back from 150" - it's just too immersive - even though it relegates viewing only to the evenings in its un-darkened room location. 

But now it looks like we have a true 150" CLR screen. To get your cake and eat it to, it seems there needs to be enough projector luminance to function properly on a true CLR screen if this size. Brian, what efficacy have you got from other USTs on this screen? Does something like a T1 at 2800L even work? Seems like the Epson at 4000L would be in the sweet spot and hold a "150in. Laser TV" moniker with this screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

slickrock said:


> This is interesting. For about a month I was using a T1 with the 120" Hisense L9P screen and enjoyed the "TV-esque" aspect of the setup where it had more utility in throughout the day. When I returned the screen I just projected the image on the wall and bumped up the image size to 150". Well, there's no way I'm walking back from 150" - it's just too immersive - even though it relegates viewing only to the evenings in its un-darkened room location.
> 
> But now it looks like we have a true 150" CLR screen. To get your cake and eat it to, it seems there needs to be enough projector luminance to function properly on a true CLR screen if this size. Brian, what efficacy have you got from other USTs on this screen? Does something like a T1 at 2800L even work? Seems like the Epson at 4000L would be in the sweet spot and hold a "150in. Laser TV" moniker with this screen.


Here are some pics I posted in the Formovie Theater thread with that projector on the 150": 









Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Could "Color space = On = washed out colors" be the reason Rico was seeing washed out color playing DV video? If so, how about the "too dark" issue? Could that be fixed with a setting change? Rico, could you give it a shot and report back? Too dark in DV issue could be due to wrong RGB output...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## colinmatheny11

ProjectionHead said:


> Here are some pics I posted in the Formovie Theater thread with that projector on the 150":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Could "Color space = On = washed out colors" be the reason Rico was seeing washed out color playing DV video? If so, how about the "too dark" issue? Could that be fixed with a setting change? Rico, could you give it a shot and report back? Too dark in DV issue could be due to wrong RGB output...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Not to further derail things, but are you planning on trying out the AWOL 3500 with the 150” screen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectionHead

colinmatheny11 said:


> Not to further derail things, but are you planning on trying out the AWOL 3500 with the 150” screen?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup! That Home Theater Dude was here today shooting video of the AWOL on it and I’m sure it’ll be on his channel soon.


----------



## leo0111127

It's blue laser + color wheel technology platform or RGB triple laser technology?


----------



## JRock3x8

leo0111127 said:


> It's blue laser + color wheel technology platform or RGB triple laser technology?


single laser


----------



## jsm88

leo0111127 said:


> It's blue laser + color wheel technology platform or RGB triple laser technology?


No color wheel, it’s 3LCD


----------



## leo0111127

JRock3x8 said:


> single laser


Thanks. 
REC 709 color gamut only.
Epson needs to consider the BT 2020 color gamut.


----------



## jsm88

leo0111127 said:


> Thanks.
> REC 709 color gamut only.
> Epson needs to consider the BT 2020 color gamut.


Nope. From Projectorscreen.com which actually has advance information: “The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space.”

considered and accomplished it sounds like


----------



## ProjectionHead

jsm88 said:


> Nope. From Projectorscreen.com which actually has advance information: “The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space.”
> 
> considered and accomplished it sounds like


Epson has not provided an actual gamut coverage yet but they state over 1 billion colors somewhere on their UK website, so we drew that conclusion.
I got my unit yesterday, so assuming @Dave Harper is back on his feet after a nasty bout with COVID, he’ll be running it through the ringer next week and measuring gamut, contrast, etc.
We can’t publish anything official (beyond what Epson UK has published) until Epson USA gives us the thumbs up, so please be patient and wait for our post.


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> please be patient


* face going purple *

(which is of course stupid because my buying decision doesn't happen until Feb... just wanted to point out my own idiocy)


----------



## leo0111127

jsm88 said:


> Nope. From Projectorscreen.com which actually has advance information: “The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space.”
> 
> considered and accomplished it sounds like


1 BILLION COLORS is color depth not the color gamut.
1 billion colors which means the image processor can support 10bit


ProjectionHead said:


> Epson has not provided an actual gamut coverage yet but they state over 1 billion colors somewhere on their UK website, so we drew that conclusion.
> I got my unit yesterday, so assuming @Dave Harper is back on his feet after a nasty bout with COVID, he’ll be running it through the ringer next week and measuring gamut, contrast, etc.
> We can’t publish anything official (beyond what Epson UK has published) until Epson USA gives us the thumbs up, so please be patient and wait for our post.


1 billion colors are not color gamut, 2 different specs, we can not calculate the color gamut from 1 billion colors.
1 billion color means it's image processor can be up to 10bit color depth for RGB compared to previous 8 bit color depth RGB.
10 bit color depth is 2^10(Red)*2^10(Green)*2^(Blue)=1.07 billion.
This year, we can see there are several top and latest TV in the market can support 12 bit color depth up to 68.6 billion colors but the color gamut only achieve DCI-P3 coloar gamut only not the BT 2020.


----------



## SaulP

Brian:
Has Epson provided enough information (e.g. from the manual) to determine the minimum distance to the PJ would need be from the screen for a 100” image? 
Thanks!


----------



## JRock3x8

92


SaulP said:


> Brian:
> Has Epson provided enough information (e.g. from the manual) to determine the minimum distance to the PJ would need be from the screen for a 100” image?
> Thanks!


87" * 0.16 = 14" lens to wall which includes most of the depth of the projector

Dimensions are _695 × 341 × 156 mm, weight – 12.3 kg_.

34.1cm / 2.54 = 13.4" device depth



https://www.avcaesar.com/src/news/00/00/8E/07/epsoneh-ls800bter.jpg



I'm going to say from this image the lens is ~1" inside the front edge which means (14" - 13.4" + 1") you will have the PJ 1.6" from the wall for a 100" image.

That's nuts.

edit : 150" = 131" wide * 0.16 = 21" - 13.4" + 1 = 8.6"


----------



## jsm88

JRock3x8 said:


> 92
> 
> 87" * 0.16 = 14" lens to wall which includes most of the depth of the projector
> 
> Dimensions are _695 × 341 × 156 mm, weight – 12.3 kg_.
> 
> 34.1cm / 2.54 = 13.4" device depth
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.avcaesar.com/src/news/00/00/8E/07/epsoneh-ls800bter.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to say from this image the lens is ~1" inside the front edge which means (14" - 13.4" + 1") you will have the PJ 1.6" from the wall for a 100" image.
> 
> That's nuts.


While you’re doing the math, how far for a 150” without using their “digital zoom”?


----------



## ProjectionHead

SaulP said:


> Brian:
> Has Epson provided enough information (e.g. from the manual) to determine the minimum distance to the PJ would need be from the screen for a 100” image?
> Thanks!


Throw ratio is 0.16; we’ll be creating a placement diagram for various sizes this upcoming week


----------



## JRock3x8

jsm88 said:


> While you’re doing the math, how far for a 150” without using their “digital zoom”?


edited


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> Throw ratio is 0.16; we’ll be creating a placement diagram for various sizes this upcoming week


how is the vertical offset? Can't find anything on the web. it looked very normalish on the few videos I saw.

btw what a smart move to put connections on the side with such a short throw.

also I see on the data sheet now where it confirms the zoom is digital and not optical - i suppose that was too much to hope for...


----------



## SaulP

ProjectionHead said:


> Throw ratio is 0.16; we’ll be creating a placement diagram for various sizes this upcoming week


Thanks, guys. I thought it would be less than 2“ from PJ to screen but had trouble believing it. 

(FWIW: The reason it’s so important is that I’m building a custom cabinet for a new projector that will live in my conso. I had one built for my home (it houses a Samsun LSP9t and a 110” electric rising screen) and it’s beautiful but BIG. For the condo WAF demands something smaller (hence 100” screen). Based on the info here, the cabinet can probably be only 20”.)


----------



## LondonBenji

Did they seriously not put an Ethernet port on this thing?! When the SoC even probably has the functionality built in?! 

What is wrong with Epson, why do they keep making compromised UST projectors? The LS500 was a flop and then they go and do something stupid like this, for the sake of an extra dollar or two on the BOM..... Also, make one with UB panels FFS, take the UST market seriously for once.


----------



## JRock3x8

LondonBenji said:


> Did they seriously not put an Ethernet port on this thing?! When the SoC even probably has the functionality built in?!
> 
> What is wrong with Epson, why do they keep making compromised UST projectors? The LS500 was a flop and then they go and do something stupid like this, for the sake of an extra dollar or two on the BOM..... Also, make one with UB panels FFS, take the UST market seriously for once.


So hook up a Shield to it

assuming the 120 hz works, this thing is going to be in HIGH demand.


----------



## en1gma582

JRock3x8 said:


> 92
> 
> 87" * 0.16 = 14" lens to wall which includes most of the depth of the projector
> 
> Dimensions are _695 × 341 × 156 mm, weight – 12.3 kg_.
> 
> 34.1cm / 2.54 = 13.4" device depth
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.avcaesar.com/src/news/00/00/8E/07/epsoneh-ls800bter.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to say from this image the lens is ~1" inside the front edge which means (14" - 13.4" + 1") you will have the PJ 1.6" from the wall for a 100" image.
> 
> That's nuts.
> 
> edit : 150" = 131" wide * 0.16 = 21" - 13.4" + 1 = 8.6"


According to the German Epson website, the distance between device and screen for a 150 inch screen is 285mm (11,22in). Not sure if that already considers the digital zoom. But i would be surprised if they didn`t use the least possible distance in their marketing.








Alle Geräte | Projektoren | Heimkino | EH-LS800 | Epson Deutschland


Verwandeln Sie Ihr Zuhause in ein Kino: Super-Ultrakurzdistanz-Projektion ✓ 4K PRO-UHD✓ AndroidTV✓ Klang von Yamaha✓




www.epson.de


----------



## JRock3x8

en1gma582 said:


> According to the German Epson website, the distance between device and screen for a 150 inch screen is 285mm (11,22in). Not sure if that already considers the digital zoom. But i would be surprised if they didn`t use the least possible distance in their marketing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alle Geräte | Projektoren | Heimkino | EH-LS800 | Epson Deutschland
> 
> 
> Verwandeln Sie Ihr Zuhause in ein Kino: Super-Ultrakurzdistanz-Projektion ✓ 4K PRO-UHD✓ AndroidTV✓ Klang von Yamaha✓
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.epson.de


its more than likely I don't have the position of the lens correct in my calculations.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> Brian - you clearly have one of these - when can you talk about it?


Quite possibly this Friday


----------



## JackB

JRock3x8 said:


> how is the vertical offset? Can't find anything on the web. it looked very normalish on the few videos I saw.
> 
> btw what a smart move to put connections on the side with such a short throw.
> 
> also I see on the data sheet now where it confirms the zoom is digital and not optical - i suppose that was too much to hope for...


I hope the box has side skirts to cover the wiring. One reason these things are acceptable in the LR is because they look so clean siting on the credenza/cabinet with the wires hidden in the back. If you have a space problem use 90 degree connectors. Sorry JRock, you are wrong about this feature; IMHO of course.


----------



## timetrip0

JackB said:


> I hope the box has side skirts to cover the wiring. One reason these things are acceptable in the LR is because they look so clean siting on the credenza/cabinet with the wires hidden in the back. If you have a space problem use 90 degree connectors. Sorry JRock, you are wrong about this feature; IMHO of course.


There are a couple of youtube videos out there that shows a siding that can be removed. In addition, there is a lot of room for wire bends, including the ability to bend the wires down and out before the edge of the unit which could be flush against the wall.


----------



## achalmersman

LondonBenji said:


> Did they seriously not put an Ethernet port on this thing?! When the SoC even probably has the functionality built in?!


Agreed. Major turn off for me. Likely won't even consider just for that reason. I run everything thats stationary via ethernet. And I say that as a network engineer with plenty of wireless experience and Ekahau certifications. When devices are stationary I want the set and forget and 100% reliable ethernet hard wire. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonBenji

achalmersman said:


> Agreed. Major turn off for me. Likely won't even consider just for that reason. I run everything thats stationary via ethernet. And I say that as a network engineer with plenty of wireless experience and Ekahau certifications. When devices are stationary I want the set and forget and 100% reliable ethernet hard wire.


This. All of this. With bells on.

I have _very_ good WiFi in my home..... I'll STILL use Ethernet and even preference device choice to something that has Ethernet, even if it might not be as good in other aspects as one that purely has WiFi.

It's so idiotic for several reasons, aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of people's WiFi sucks, I can almost guarantee you the SoC they used to run Android/Google TV already has the ability to run an Ethernet interface, they just didn't put it on the board, which would have been a tiny cost to Epson, but a big bonus for a lot of us.

So silly. In the unlikely event that anyone at Epson does happen to reading this thread, put in a damn Ethernet port!


----------



## en1gma582

LondonBenji said:


> This. All of this. With bells on.
> 
> I have _very_ good WiFi in my home..... I'll STILL use Ethernet and even preference device choice to something that has Ethernet, even if it might not be as good in other aspects as one that purely has WiFi.
> 
> It's so idiotic for several reasons, aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of people's WiFi sucks, I can almost guarantee you the SoC they used to run Android/Google TV already has the ability to run an Ethernet interface, they just didn't put it on the board, which would have been a tiny cost to Epson, but a big bonus for a lot of us.
> 
> So silly. In the unlikely event that anyone at Epson does happen to reading this thread, put in a damn Ethernet port!


I don`t get it. If you spend that much money on a projector, why not spend the additional 200 bucks on a Apple TV/Shield or even much less on a Fire TV device? They are much more capable than Android TV anyway. And since manufacturers know that most customers will use those smart streaming devices, BluRay players or gaming consoles that have Ethernet built in, why bother adding Ethernet?


----------



## achalmersman

en1gma582 said:


> I don`t get it. If you spend that much money on a projector, why not spend the additional 200 bucks on a Apple TV/Shield or even much less on a Fire TV device? They are much more capable than Android TV anyway. And since manufacturers know that most customers will use those smart streaming devices, BluRay players or gaming consoles that have Ethernet built in, why bother adding Ethernet?


Firmware updates or any other number of things. As stated the technology already probably exists on the chip. They just needed to add the $0.50 component to the board and a cutout in the case 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## en1gma582

achalmersman said:


> Firmware updates or any other number of things. As stated the technology already probably exists on the chip. They just needed to add the $0.50 component to the board and a cutout in the case
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I`m sure you`ll be able to update firmware via USB. Don`t get me wrong, i get why people with slower WiFi would like to have Ethernet on the device itself. I just don`t understand how that can be a critical point in anyone`s purchase decision, when the missing Ethernet is so easy to replace. Even $0.50 components and the additional cost for cutouts add up when large quantities are produced. And leaving out these components that the vast majority of users won`t need might just be able to keep the launch price a dollar below 3,700 or 4,000 or whatever, which still seems to be a big thing in marketing.


----------



## achalmersman

en1gma582 said:


> I`m sure you`ll be able to update firmware via USB. Don`t get me wrong, i get why people with slower WiFi would like to have Ethernet on the device itself. I just don`t understand how that can be a critical point in anyone`s purchase decision, when the missing Ethernet is so easy to replace. Even $0.50 components and the additional cost for cutouts add up when large quantities are produced. And leaving out these components that the vast majority of users won`t need might just be able to keep the launch price a dollar below 3,700 or 4,000 or whatever, which still seems to be a big thing in marketing.


I dont have slow wifi. I am a network engineer with 4 APs in a 3500 sq ft house. Those of us in the field know that wireless is inherently unreliable compared to hard wired. Supported protocols, beacon rates, fast transition roaming compatibility, etc. For example I'm getting ready to throw away my irrigation controller and buy a new one because after a couple years it magically won't connect to the wifi. It was alway temperamental even though it's RSSI was -60dbm and its SNR was over 25db. No errors in the wireless controller....it just won't connect. Maybe the USB port on it has flaked out because I even tried a new wireless adapter. Anyway....ill be replacing it with the "pro" irrigation controller which has an ethernet port. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## en1gma582

Epson does not expect you to rely on WiFi and have no Ethernet connection at all. They just assume that 99.9% of users will use some kind of external device that already has Ethenet. It might be a different story for ceiling mounted long throw projectors when users don`t want to run long HDMI cables through their living room and rely on the built in OS. But i highly doubt that a significant number of UST users will use them as standalone devices without any external devices.


----------



## achalmersman

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I want my stuff networked for any reason that might come up including firmware updates. I don't want to drag out a laptop and USB cable. I won't be buying it if it doesn't have an ethernet jack. Simple as that. Probably 95% of people using these dont use the built in speakers yet nobody has released one without speakers even though doing so could either allow the unit to be cheaper or spend that money on more important things like lens quality etc. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## JRock3x8

Unpopular opinion : I don't want to update my devices for any reason, ever. If it doesn't work out of the box the way its advertised, it gets returned. I always turn updates off and yet somehow they get forced sometimes anyways.

IMO, 99% of updates are completely unnecessary and do not add any core functionality to the product.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

JRock3x8 said:


> Unpopular opinion : I don't want to update my devices for any reason, ever. If it doesn't work out of the box the way its advertised, it gets returned. I always turn updates off and yet somehow they get forced sometimes anyways.
> 
> IMO, 99% of updates are completely unnecessary and do not add any core functionality to the product.


Just don't connect it to the internet and use a streaming device like a Roku, Fire Stick, Apple TV, etc. Then you'll never have to worry about it updating on its own.


----------



## Pulse1

Just to add that i have the EH-LS300 which is the little brother of this and has been out just over a year and a half. Anyway it doesn't have an Ethernet Port either and to be honest i always prefer Ethernet due to it being more stable etc also. But the Wifi on it has never missed a beat and never gave me any problems even with Firmware and Software updates from the Android TV System. When the EH-LS300 UST first came out it had Android 9 TV installed but it's now updated to Android 11 and what's actually surprised me is the Android TV Software has been rapid from day one and continues to be and is probably the fastest and most responsive software that i've ever seen all the TV devices i've had. I've also had Sony Tvs in the past with Android software built in and they were really buggy and very sluggish but the Android 11 TV software on the EH-LS300B is a breath of fresh air. Just to add yes it does have a setting for Ethernet within the Android 11 TV settings menu but to be honest the wifi on the EH-LS300 is more than good enough for me. Maybe a USB to Ethernet adapter could work on the EH-LS800 for anyone that must have a cable connection?


----------



## aerodynamics

I think the bigger omission is HDMI 2.1


----------



## JRock3x8

aerodynamics said:


> I think the bigger omission is HDMI 2.1


why would you want that added in? the projector is not capable of supporting any of the benefits that HDMI 2.1 brings...?


----------



## aerodynamics

JRock3x8 said:


> why would you want that added in? the projector is not capable of supporting any of the benefits that HDMI 2.1 brings...?


How do you know? The specs haven't been released.


----------



## MJ DOOM

@ProjectionHead Epson dropping any new 4K bulb based normal throw projectors this year?


----------



## 3sprit

There is the *EH-LS12000B*


----------



## JRock3x8

aerodynamics said:


> How do you know? The specs haven't been released.


what other USTs support HDMI 2.1 in this price range?


----------



## jsm88

MJ DOOM said:


> @ProjectionHead Epson dropping any new 4K bulb based normal throw projectors this year?


 There is this new bulb-based , standard throw 4k pj that appears to be coming in around $1,200 - but nothing but crickets even in the under 3k forum. Assume it will be formally announced with the 800:

*Gaming on the big screen*
This 4K PRO-UHD1 home cinema projector can create the big screen experience in your own home, with a lag time of less than 20ms and images reaching up to 500 inches. It can handle the most atmospheric scenes with clearly defined shadow detail and deep blacks, increase brightness with dark gamma uplift for a more enhanced gaming experience.
*Simple set up*
The compact and lightweight EH-TW6250 is easy to move, plus the vertical lens shift, x1.6 zoom and keystone correction ensure it’s fuss free to position the picture. Accessing entertainment is easy with built-in Android TV and a 1.4 HDMI port. 
*Experience vivid and lifelike images*
Epson’s 3LCD technology radiates exceptionally bright yet colourful images by producing an equally high White and Colour Light Output3. Even in bright living rooms, this 4K PRO-UHD projector delivers 2,800 lumens and a 35,000:1 contrast ratio.
*Enjoy up to 15 years of entertainment²*
With up to 10,000 hours lifetime on lamps2, you could watch a movie every day for
up to the next 15 years without having to replace them


----------



## 3sprit

Formovie Theater? 🤔


----------



## mirzank

3sprit said:


> Formovie Theater? 🤔


I have the FT and even projecting on my blank white wall produces amazing colours and is decently watchable during daytime if I pull down the blinds besides the wall. I have a massive window there probably 4.5 meters by 3meters so you can imagine the kind of light I get. There are windows opposite the wall though with no blinds. Despite that amazing colours and no need for a screen for me. 
the onlyreason I’d look at the Epson is due to its shorter throw distance. I have a 44cm deep built in wall unit so my picture with FT is about 80cm. The Epson would give me a much bigger picture and I’d consider changing if the picture is even 80% as good at Ft.


----------



## JRock3x8

Turns out this would not be the first pj to support 1080/120.

Viewsonic already did that. Also appears Optoma is joining the 120hz party with the CinemaX D2+









ViewSonic X2000-4K: Ultra-short throw projector announced with 120 Hz support


ViewSonic has announced the X2000-4K, an ultra-short-throw projector that can be placed just 23 cm from a wall and still create a 100-inch projection. The ViewSonic X2000-4K outputs at 4K, has a 120 Hz refresh rate when set to 1080p, supports HDR and has built-in Harman/Kardon speakers, among...




www.notebookcheck.net






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## en1gma582

I am seriously considering buying this projector once the first reviews are out and confirm the marketing claims. I don`t have a fitting screen yet and would hold off on buying one until early next year and use a smooth white wall until then. In your experience, does the color of the unit casing have an influence on picture quality/contrast? Will a white unit reflect more light back on the screen?


----------



## JRock3x8

We're a week away from the supposed US launch and not a peep? Feels suspicious.

edit this website is claiming an october launch for europe : 








Epson unveils six new home cinema projectors


Epson has introduced six new projectors, designed for home cinema, sports and gamers looking for an



www.hiddenwires.co.uk


----------



## jsm88

JRock3x8 said:


> We're a week away from the supposed US launch and not a peep? Feels suspicious.
> 
> edit this website is claiming an october launch for europe :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epson unveils six new home cinema projectors
> 
> 
> Epson has introduced six new projectors, designed for home cinema, sports and gamers looking for an
> 
> 
> 
> www.hiddenwires.co.uk


guessing CEDIA is the hold up


----------



## JRock3x8

huh - today I learned CEDIA's HQ is in Indy (where I live)


----------



## juic-E-juice

jsm88 said:


> guessing CEDIA is the hold up


Correct. Brian has mentioned that he’s withholding his review until the “official” announcement at CEDIA.


----------



## kraine

Count at best on the end of November and it is the optimistic version


----------



## 3sprit

EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia


A casa come al cinema Immergiti in film e videogiochi con questo elegante e conveniente videoproiettore 4K PRO-UHD1 con cui potrai avere immagini fino a 150 pollici posizionandolo vicino alla parete. Per un gaming appassionante: prova la nostra nuova modalità di gioco con un ritardo di ingresso...




www.epson.it













Laser TV 120" Screen - ELPSC36 | Standard | Opzioni | Prodotti | Epson Italia


Vivi una spettacolare esperienza immersiva a casa, di giorno e di notte, che si tratti di sport dal vivo, videogiochi o film. Non ci sono limiti a ciò che puoi guardare e goderti su questo schermo. Il sottile schermo Epson ELPSC36 con tecnologia ALR (Ambient Light Rejection) migliora la qualità...




www.epson.it


----------



## LondonBenji

en1gma582 said:


> I don`t get it. If you spend that much money on a projector, why not spend the additional 200 bucks on a Apple TV/Shield or even much less on a Fire TV device? They are much more capable than Android TV anyway. And since manufacturers know that most customers will use those smart streaming devices, BluRay players or gaming consoles that have Ethernet built in, why bother adding Ethernet?


Patently false. At this point, Android/Google TV is a far superior platform than both of those and if I "spend that much on a projector" why _doesn't_ it have an Ethernet port, especially when it'll be doing 4k streaming, I shouldn't_ have_ to buy an additional device to connect to another device which already has that functionality built it, it's a waste.



achalmersman said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I want my stuff networked for any reason that might come up including firmware updates. I don't want to drag out a laptop and USB cable. I won't be buying it if it doesn't have an ethernet jack. Simple as that. Probably 95% of people using these dont use the built in speakers yet nobody has released one without speakers even though doing so could either allow the unit to be cheaper or spend that money on more important things like lens quality etc.


Exactly exactly EXACTLY. It's such a waste of money to have such extensive "Sound By Yamaha" speaker design, that costs WAY more than it would have done to add Ethernet, when most people aren't going to use the built in speakers.

It was a stupid design choice _NOT_ to include Ethernet and I want to question whoever made that silly silly decision.


----------



## noonsa

Why would one need to drag out a laptop and USB to update firmware? There's WiFi on this thing, isn't there?


----------



## Nazgul

lol Wait this doesn't have an Ethernet port?


----------



## en1gma582

This reminds me of the outrage when Apple first omitted optical drives from macs.


----------



## donald winstead

See Best buy has this listed now of course saying sold out but the specs from their page shows this 

*Key Specs*

Light Source
Laser
Resolution

4K (2160p)
Color Brightness

4000 lumens
White Brightness

4000 lumens
Contrast Ratio

2,500,000:1
Projector Use
Ultra Short Throw, Home Theater, Gaming
Smart Capable

Yes
Works With

Google Assistant
Voice Assistant Built-in

Google Assistant
Power Source
AC/DC Power (plug-in)

*General*

Product Name
EpiqVision™ Ultra LS800 4K PRO-UHD® Ultra Short-Throw 3-Chip 3LCD Smart Streaming Laser Projector
Brand
Epson
Noise Level
32 decibels
Projector Mount Pattern

Universal
Model Number
V11HA90120
Color
Black
Color Category
Black

*Dimension*

Product Height

6.14 inches
Product Width

27.36 inches
Product Depth

13.42 inches
Product Weight

27.55 pounds

*Display*

Light Source
Laser
Resolution

4K (2160p)
Resolution (Native)

3840 x 2160 (4K)
3-Chip Technology

Yes
Color Brightness

4000 lumens
White Brightness

4000 lumens
High Dynamic Range (HDR)

Yes
High Dynamic Range Format

HDR 10
Light Source Life (Economy Mode)

20000 hours
Light Source Life (Normal Mode)

20000 hours
Contrast Ratio

2,500,000:1
Aspect Ratio

16:9
Throw Ratio Range

0.16(Zoom Wide) and 0.40(Zoom Tele)
Digital Keystone Correction

No
3D Technology
No

*Viewing*

Minimum Projector Distance

0.075 feet
Maximum Projector Distance

0.93 feet
Minimum Viewable Screen Size
80 inches
Maximum Viewable Screen Size
150 inches

*Features*

Projector Use
Ultra Short Throw, Home Theater, Gaming
Portable
Yes
Smart Capable

Yes
Screen Mirroring

Mobile to screen
Remote Control Included
Yes
Featured Streaming Services

Prime Video, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, YouTube TV, YouTube
TV Tuner

No
Computer Compatibility
Android TV, Apple iOS, Apple iPadOS, Mac, Windows
Kensington Security Slot

No

*Exposure Control*

Focus Adjustment

Manual
Optical Zoom

None
Digital Zoom Capability

Yes

*Connectivity*

Number of HDMI Inputs (Total)
2
Number of HDMI 2.0 Inputs
1
Number of HDMI 2.1 Inputs
1
HDMI Audio Return Channel (ARC)

Yes
Wireless HDMI In

None
Number Of USB Port(s)

1
Video Input(s)
HDMI
Bluetooth Enabled

Yes
Bluetooth Version

5.0
Input(s)
HDMI

*Audio*

Sound Mode
Stereo
Integrated Speaker(s)
Yes
Speaker(s) Included
Yes

*Compatibility*

Works With

Google Assistant
Voice Assistant Built-in

Google Assistant

*Power*

Power Source
AC/DC Power (plug-in)
Voltage

100 volts

*Warranty*

Manufacturer's Warranty - Parts
Two-Year or 12,000-hour Use Limited Warranty Terms and Condition
Manufacturer's Warranty - Labor
Two-Year or 12,000-hour Use Limited Warranty Terms and Condition


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Insanely stupid pricing- same range as LS11000/12000


----------



## en1gma582

First review is out


----------



## JRock3x8

same price as formovie theater without the limited time markdowns


----------



## JRock3x8

en1gma582 said:


> First review is out


10 seconds in and I already dislike this guy

there's literally nothing new about this PJ's light source - what is he talking about...
oh yay - they used a super wide lens so that the space looks bigger, only it's a dead give away because the screen looks 21:9...
confirmed no ethernet
What? Capped at 4k/60? Did he seriously miss one of this PJ's biggest selling points? 1080/120? never mind he got there, eventually...
Is he seriously reading the marketing without doing any measurements?
yikes - onkyo receiver...

why is he talking about watching 4 games at once? because of screen size?

do yourself a favor - don't watch this video - it's a total waste of time.


----------



## Milos M.

No 3D? Pass.


----------



## 3sprit

en1gma582 said:


> First review is out


 This is advertising… 😉


----------



## clipghost

What are peoples thoughts on this compared to the Global Formovie Theater?


----------



## BH_Pirkle

clipghost said:


> What are peoples thoughts on this compared to the Global Formovie Theater?


Waiting for our guy Brian to hit us with a comparison


----------



## Nazgul

en1gma582 said:


> This reminds me of the outrage when Apple first omitted optical drives from macs.


Eh... Ethernet vs WiFi is different for various reasons. You ditch a drive you just download instead for the install, it's a once and done quick activity. Ethernet and WiFi is constant and one is vastly more reliable and (usually) faster than the other, also at a much lower cost. I get your point and for the layman it probably has no impact, but those in the know will be....displeased. It's definitely not an ideal situation and hopefully isn't one that continues.


----------



## JRock3x8

I don't understand the need for an ethernet port - if you're trying to play a UHD disc rip straight to your UST PJ, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong.


----------



## clipghost

JRock3x8 said:


> I don't understand the need for an ethernet port - if you're trying to play a UHD disc rip straight to your UST PJ, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong.


Wireless is not always 100% good. Straight plug in is always better.


----------



## lordvader

clipghost said:


> Wireless is not always 100% good. Straight plug in is always better.


I'm interested in your Ethernet use case. Are you planning on installing and using apps directly on the projector?

I don't 100% agree with the claim that wireless not being 100% good though - as well designed WiFi network will get you 90-99% there. Eg - for streaming services, WiFi is fine. And TBH - even for streaming UHD rips, strong WiFi will get you there too (though getting close to the limits there).


----------



## clipghost

lordvader said:


> I'm interested in your Ethernet use case. Are you planning on installing and using apps directly on the projector?
> 
> I don't 100% agree with the claim that wireless not being 100% good though - as well designed WiFi network will get you 90-99% there. Eg - for streaming services, WiFi is fine. And TBH - even for streaming UHD rips, strong WiFi will get you there too (though getting close to the limits there).


Yes exactly. Every person has different use-cases. You don't have to 100% agree. Every home, every internet provider, every router, are different.


----------



## clipghost

This is not triple laser and has no ethernet which I think kills it for me. Great input lag though.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

JRock3x8 said:


> Turns out this would not be the first pj to support 1080/120.
> 
> Viewsonic already did that. Also appears Optoma is joining the 120hz party with the CinemaX D2+
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ViewSonic X2000-4K: Ultra-short throw projector announced with 120 Hz support
> 
> 
> ViewSonic has announced the X2000-4K, an ultra-short-throw projector that can be placed just 23 cm from a wall and still create a 100-inch projection. The ViewSonic X2000-4K outputs at 4K, has a 120 Hz refresh rate when set to 1080p, supports HDR and has built-in Harman/Kardon speakers, among...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.notebookcheck.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Optoma was on that 120hz train when the P2 released a few years ago.


----------



## Sonny Red

clipghost said:


> This is not triple laser and has no ethernet which I think kills it for me. Great input lag though.


I think the same. Epson is doing the same that for the LS500.

Good device but missing major features (triple laser) and the ethernet port missing is not understandable.
Wifi is not reliable. Ok most of people will have an Apple TV 4K or something else to stream so what the point of having paid to have Android TV 11 and above all an Ethernet port cost nothing and the Ethernet part is already on the motherboard.


----------



## ProjectionHead

BH_Pirkle said:


> Waiting for our guy Brian to hit us with a comparison


Going to be doing our first look video on the Epson should be out today as well. They originally told us we couldn’t drop it until Thursday, so it’s still being edited and then yeaterday!they said it can go live leaving us behind schedule 
This is the next projector that @Dave Harper will be reviewing for us as well.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Sonny Red said:


> I think the same. Epson is doing the same that for the LS500.
> 
> Good device but missing major features (triple laser) and the ethernet port missing is not understandable.
> Wifi is not reliable. Ok most of people will have an Apple TV 4K or something else to stream so what the point of having paid to have Android TV 11 and above all an Ethernet port cost nothing and the Ethernet part is already on the motherboard.


Lack of Ethernet port was a big miss by Epson


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> Optoma was on that 120hz train when the P2 released a few years ago.


I’m not a big gamer, so please excuse my ignorance - is it worth going down to 1080p to get 120hz over staying in 4k and getting 60hz?
I really only play 3rd person games (God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, etc)


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> I don't understand the need for an ethernet port - if you're trying to play a UHD disc rip straight to your UST PJ, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong.


For those who want to use the built in streaming apps, Ethernet is a faster, more reliable connection.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> same price as formovie theater without the limited time markdowns


Introductory price is going to be here to stay for a bit longer with us


----------



## ProjectionHead

3sprit said:


> This is advertising… 😉


Epson gave 3 of us units to drop these “first look” videos this week and we will be featured on the Epson website once they go live.
These videos were not marketing (not compensated) but are supposed to be for the less “science-y”) crowd than y’all here on AVSF.
@Dave Harper was able to do some sweeps and measurements which we brieflly mention in our video (going live today) and he will be taking it home this week to be able to do a more in depth analysis and writeup.


----------



## Sonny Red

ProjectionHead said:


> I’m not a big gamer, so please excuse my ignorance - is it worth going down to 1080p to get 120hz over staying in 4k and getting 60hz?
> I really only play 3rd person games (God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, etc)


It really depends of the kind of games. For racing game 1080p 120 Hz is maybe a better option and for other game 4K at 60 Hz is enough.


----------



## JereyWolf

ProjectionHead said:


> I’m not a big gamer, so please excuse my ignorance - is it worth going down to 1080p to get 120hz over staying in 4k and getting 60hz?
> I really only play 3rd person games (God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, etc)


I would say it's absolutely worth going to 1080p if that means 120hz for gaming. You'll cut input lag in half vs 60hz and the overall smoothness is totally worth it. I'm basing this opinion strictly on experience with direct displays. I have no experience with 1080p/120hz on a projector.


----------



## JRock3x8

For Driving and Fighting Games, every frame matters.

Extremely competitive multiplayer shooters also are better with higher frame rates, even at the expense of pixels.

Also there is a fairly extreme amount of image processing going on with video games. With busy scenes (explosions, fast action), you are almost never maintaining a 4k image anyways.

Edit : I still think the argument for an ethernet port is a bit absurd. Unless you're using your UST next to a microwave or a vacuum cleaner, there's no reason any modern capable wifi system shouldn't be able to serve your needs, especially for streaming.


----------



## Nazgul

ProjectionHead said:


> I’m not a big gamer, so please excuse my ignorance - is it worth going down to 1080p to get 120hz over staying in 4k and getting 60hz?
> I really only play 3rd person games (God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, etc)


If you're not playing CoD online or something then you'd want to stay at 4k/60, especially for the games you listed above. Part of the frustration for gamers is they pay all this money for new hardware such as PS5, XBox Series-X, High-End PC that CAN do 4k/120 (or at least 4k >60) but if their TV/Projector can't handle it you're essentially gimping yourself and leaving quality/money on the table.


----------



## Nazgul

JRock3x8 said:


> Edit : I still think the argument for an ethernet port is a bit absurd. Unless you're using your UST next to a microwave or a vacuum cleaner, there's no reason any modern capable wifi system shouldn't be able to serve your needs, especially for streaming.


It's far cheaper to buy an ethernet cable and get insanely stable (and fast) throughput that never changes, whereas WiFi costs vastly more $ to get a lower quality connection. While WiFi is constantly improving it's always playing catchup with ethernet. Personally my house is all wired for ethernet, every room (I built the house). So if I want to Gamestream or Steam Link to my projector I 100% will want to use an ethernet cable and not WiFi. I do agree though that the layman probably only uses ethernet to plug their modem into their router and that's it, so this has no affect on them. They basically made a decision to cut costs and focus on the masses, not sure how much was saved or if it was worth it.


----------



## JRock3x8

Nazgul said:


> ethernet


Again, if it's that important to you, then buy a Shield or ATV and connect it. Both of those devices are going to offer a far better experience for streaming apps then your projector.

I'm sorry- we can talk all day and all night about this - I don't think it's a big deal.

edit: full disclosure - every single home theater device I own is connected via ethernet. So I understand the benefit, just not for a projector.


----------



## csimon2

Sonny Red said:


> Good device but missing major features (triple laser) and the ethernet port missing is not understandable.


Epson uses 3LCD tech to drive the actual images. The laser is only used as the light source (vs a bulb), so a triple laser isn't necessary, at least in the application of the tech that Epson is using and in this price category.


Sonny Red said:


> Wifi is not reliable. Ok most of people will have an Apple TV 4K or something else to stream so what the point of having paid to have Android TV 11 and above all an Ethernet port cost nothing and the Ethernet part is already on the motherboard.


If Epson is paying anything to license Android TV, it is pennies on the dollar. This is why Netflix isn't officially supported: Epson understands that the vast majority of their customers will use an external media player, so why go through all of the trouble, expense, and delay to certify something that ultimately will be ignored? A product the size of the LS800 most certainly does not fit into 'portable' projector category, which imho is the only projector category where the full Android TV experience and ecosystem is necessary (but even then, a wired ethernet connection wouldn't be used that often when in true wireless portable mode). Android TV, as Epson deploys it (along with numerous other projector manufacturers), is less about providing customers with an app-based platform, and more about providing a unified OS that they can easily build future products off of.


ProjectionHead said:


> For those who want to use the built in streaming apps, Ethernet is a faster, more reliable connection.





Nazgul said:


> They basically made a decision to cut costs and focus on the masses, not sure how much was saved or if it was worth it.


While ethernet is no doubt more reliable and generally faster than most in-home WiFi setups, I'm sure part of Epson's thinking here was that an external media player is something someone spending >$3K on this product can/will afford. Not only that, but an external media player, which will offer a far better SoC (i.e. Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield), will not have limited app access as those are much larger platforms+ecosystems that Epson clearly doesn't want to compete with.


JereyWolf said:


> I would say it's absolutely worth going to 1080p if that means 120hz for gaming. You'll cut input lag in half vs 60hz and the overall smoothness is totally worth it. I'm basing this opinion strictly on experience with direct displays. I have no experience with 1080p/120hz on a projector.


Not all projectors halve their lag rate when switching from 60Hz to 120Hz. This is where refresh rates generally differ quite a lot between projectors and displays. It will be interesting to learn of the statistics here in upcoming reviews.


JRock3x8 said:


> For Driving and Fighting Games, every frame matters. Extremely competitive multiplayer shooters also are better with higher frame rates, even at the expense of pixels.
> 
> Also there is a fairly extreme amount of image processing going on with video games. With busy scenes (explosions, fast action), you are almost never maintaining a 4k image anyways.


All great points. Every frame certainly matters, but unless you're connecting to a high-end gaming rig, the fact is, most current-gen games aren't able to support *true* 4Kp120. The actual frame rate produced by the latest consoles for AAA games at 4K res are generally much less than 120. So adjusting down to 1080p to achieve *true* 120Hz (which the consoles can much more easily achieve) is worthwhile.


Nazgul said:


> Part of the frustration for gamers is they pay all this money for new hardware such as PS5, XBox Series-X, High-End PC that CAN do 4k/120 (or at least 4k >60) but if their TV/Projector can't handle it you're essentially gimping yourself and leaving quality/money on the table.


True, but clearly we're not living in a world yet where products in this market, at this price range, with this desired feature capability, are economically possible for these manufacturers. Either you will need to hold off on purchasing, or will need to substantially increase your budget. Alternatively, you could just accept the fact that the situation is what it is right now, purchase what is available for your budget, keep the product in good condition, and when that time does come where all of the tech is affordable for your budget, sell whatever you bought and upgrade. I am sure a device such as the LS800, if maintained in good shape, will still be worth a reasonable amount on the second-hand market in two-three years.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Here's another "first look" video:


----------



## JRock3x8

more marketing copy (snooze)


----------



## JRock3x8

csimon2 said:


> [gaming capabilities]...


It's sort of wild that we've gotten back to the place where consoles are ahead of the technology curve. It has been a LONG time since consoles were in front. I suppose the increased price of what they can sell these things for has certainly helped pad the capability.

Sorry... Off Topic...


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> more marketing copy (snooze)


Not looking forward to your take on my video later today....please be gentle on me😬


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> Not looking forward to your take on my video later today....please be gentle on me😬


you get a pass because we all know you're actually going to do the work. These other guys are just looking to cash checks as far as I can tell.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> you get a pass because we all know you're actually going to do the work. These other guys are just looking to cash checks as far as I can tell.


----------



## Nazgul

JRock3x8 said:


> you get a pass because we all know you're actually going to do the work. These other guys are just looking to cash checks as far as I can tell.


Yeah the existing "reviews", and I seriously hesitate to call them that, are pretty weak. More like a commercial for the product than anything else.


----------



## Nazgul

csimon2 said:


> True, but clearly we're not living in a world yet where products in this market, at this price range, with this desired feature capability, are economically possible for these manufacturers. Either you will need to hold off on purchasing, or will need to substantially increase your budget. Alternatively, you could just accept the fact that the situation is what it is right now, purchase what is available for your budget, keep the product in good condition, and when that time does come where all of the tech is affordable for your budget, sell whatever you bought and upgrade. I am sure a device such as the LS800, if maintained in good shape, will still be worth a reasonable amount on the second-hand market in two-three years.


Yeah I don't think anyone expects 4k/120 right now, but that is still the dream for many of us gamers. 4k/120 with low input lag. For now we all settle for what we can get with the expectation that like you said in a few years we'll sell what we got to someone who doesn't care as much about gaming and buy a more gaming focused UST.


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## csimon2

Nazgul said:


> but that is still the dream for many of us gamers. 4k/120 with low input lag. For now we all settle for what we can get


Indeed. I'm in the market for an upgraded projector this Fall. Based on what I've researched lately, no product within my budget ($7-$10K) hits all of my 'requirements'. So I've had to come to terms with the fact that I'm most likely going to need to buy an interim projector for a bit less, which will offer substantial benefits over my aging 1080p projector, but leave me in a less than nirvana-esque state. I'll just need to be careful with whatever I purchase, and then be on top the ball over the next few years such a dream projector really hits home.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> These videos were not marketing (not compensated) but are supposed to be for the less “science-y”) crowd than y’all here on AVSF.


*Contrast Ratio*
2.500.000 : 1
😈


----------



## bobn4burton

Regarding the lack of Ethernet, it also bums me out and I think they should have added it.

Would it work to plug in a usb-ethernet dongle to the USB port?


----------



## Nazgul

bobn4burton said:


> Regarding the lack of Ethernet, it also bums me out and I think they should have added it.
> 
> Would it work to plug in a usb-ethernet dongle to the USB port?


I thought about that...maybe it would? Could always test it out if you or someone on here has an existing Android projector with a USB port.

I do agree with the one person who said the expectation from Epson is probably that most people will plug in a streaming device like a Shield or ATV and just use that, those all have ethernet so it'd make the lack of ethernet on the projector moot. Although if someone doesn't have that and they don't want to foot out another $100-$200 I can't blame a person for being annoyed.


----------



## AwokeFromHypersleep

According to the spec sheets I've seen so far of this new UST, it sure seems like EPSON has lifted the pixel-shifting tech straight from the LS500, despite having larger LCD panels.

If true, that is extremely disappointing -- EPSON really needs to drop or clarify this "4K PRO-UHD" moniker they've got going on. Like, I'm perfectly a-okay with pixel-shifting -- but it's misleading to call these 4K projectors when their total addressable pixel-count roughly amounts to a 2K projected image... in short, they 2-way shift their HD panels diagonally, instead of 4-ways like most DLPs on the market.

Super helpful link: What is PRO-UHD and why does it have lower resolution than standard 4K UHD? Not a BenQ shill btw -- I just haven't come across any other resource that sums it up better. I certainly haven't seen any reviewer cover this ongoing issue in any comparable detail.

What's frustrating is that EPSON broke free of this limitation with their LS12000 long-throw model, which fully addresses all 8 million+ pixels in a 4K-UHD image. (albeit by 2-way shifting a denser 2K panel rather than an HD panel) This, despite _also_ being coined "4K PRO-UHD".

It's a shame how they make minimal effort to differentiate these details on their models that share the "4K PRO-UHD" marketing, unless you really dig into the spec sheets -- ironic too, considering that lawsuit they recently won that complained of shady ANSI-lumen claims on Amazon.

Anyway -- rant over. Was really looking forward to seeing this tech trickle down to their next UST model. Would love to be proved wrong on all of the above.

My opinion on the lack of Ethernet -- I do prefer hardwired as well. But even if EPSON did include ethernet, chances are high they would have used a 10/100Mbps 'Fast Ethernet' controller anyway -- as they do on most of their consumer models. It's worth trying out a third-party, USB2 Gigabit Ethernet adapter -- it should provide the same functionality, and likely give you a measurable speed boost as it does on most Smart TVs.


----------



## Nazgul

I think the big question now is how does this stack up against the Formovie Theater. 4000 vs 2800 ANSI Lumens is a big difference, but Formovie has Dolby Vision. Hmmm....🤔


----------



## Nazgul

AwokeFromHypersleep said:


> My opinion on the lack of Ethernet -- I do prefer hardwired as well. But even if EPSON did include ethernet, chances are high they would have used a 10/100Mbps 'Fast Ethernet' controller anyway -- as they do on most of their consumer models.


Ouch, 10/100? 2000 called and they want their ethernet back. 😂


----------



## Jon AA

So, with the brightness of this unit...if one sticks to a 120" screen, does using a non-ALR screen in a daytime livingroom environment become realistic? I'd really like an acoustically transparent screen. Audio performance is more important to me than getting every last bit of video performance available, as long as it looks "pretty good."


----------



## 1NT0_darkness

Jon AA said:


> So, with the brightness of this unit...if one sticks to a 120" screen, does using a non-ALR screen in a daytime livingroom environment become realistic? I'd really like an acoustically transparent screen. Audio performance is more important to me than getting every last bit of video performance available, as long as it looks "pretty good."


I understand at this point in time a AT screen is not recommended - unusable with any ust projector.

Probably a new screen material needs to be magicked.

EDIT.

I stand corrected VividStorm S Pro is an acoustic transparent screen for ust projectors.


----------



## schumy1975

if possible please review its black level and contrast level in more detail, against the mainstream UST projector chip set (ie the TI 0.47" DMD chip). I read this is the only UST projector in the market that uses a 3 LDC chip. Video quality particular black level and contrast is a key consideration for my UST selection. Many thanks


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## JRock3x8

Price is a major turn off on this, especially in light of Optoma's CinemaX D2, but the CinemaX D2 almost certainly will require me to move my screen up


----------



## csimon2

Nazgul said:


> Ouch, 10/100? 2000 called and they want their ethernet back. 😂


Tons of consumer devices unfortunately still only include FE – especially display devices. When most streaming bit rates aren't even topping 30Mbps for UHD (and even for 8K, <80Mbps is the goal), the extra pennies to include GbE just aren't worth it to too many manufacturers.


JRock3x8 said:


> Price is a major turn off on this, especially in light of Optoma's CinemaX D2, but the CinemaX D2 almost certainly will require me to move my screen up


If you're highly affected by DLP's color wheels, Optoma is unfortunately a non-starter.


----------



## Dave Harper

JRock3x8 said:


> huh - today I learned CEDIA's HQ is in Indy (where I live)


Yep, that’s where I attended ISF Certification Training many moons ago!



csimon2 said:


> Epson uses 3LCD tech to drive the actual images. *The laser is only used as the light source (vs a bulb), so a triple laser isn't necessary, at least in the application of the tech that Epson is using and in this price category*……….


That is definitely not true. An RGB laser design could greatly enhance this or any projector’s performance!

Single blue laser is pretty similar to lamps in that as you say it only really replaces the lamp as the light source, and it can only get you close to DCI-P3 colors, usually with the help of lumen robbing filters. 

With RGB lasers, the separate red, green and blue lasers are used for the colors as well as the light source and you can easily get full BT2020 color gamut with NO filters involved, which as I said reduce your light output!

The Holy Grail in projection is true RGB lasers, so not having them is _always_ worse (if engineered properly that is!)!



AwokeFromHypersleep said:


> According to the spec sheets I've seen so far of this new UST, it sure seems like EPSON has lifted the pixel-shifting tech straight from the LS500, despite having larger LCD panels.
> 
> If true, that is extremely disappointing -- EPSON really needs to drop or clarify this "4K PRO-UHD" moniker they've got going on. Like, I'm perfectly a-okay with pixel-shifting -- but it's misleading to call these 4K projectors when their total addressable pixel-count roughly amounts to a 2K projected image... in short, they 2-way shift their HD panels diagonally, instead of 4-ways like most DLPs on the market.
> 
> Super helpful link: What is PRO-UHD and why does it have lower resolution than standard 4K UHD? Not a BenQ shill btw -- I just haven't come across any other resource that sums it up better. I certainly haven't seen any reviewer cover this ongoing issue in any comparable detail.
> 
> *What's frustrating is that EPSON broke free of this limitation with their LS12000 long-throw model, which fully addresses all 8 million+ pixels in a 4K-UHD image. (albeit by 2-way shifting a denser 2K panel rather than an HD panel) *This, despite _also_ being coined "4K PRO-UHD".
> 
> ……………


I’m pretty certain the LS12000 is doing four way pixel shifting. And it showed in my single pixel test patterns in my review of it.


----------



## csimon2

csimon2 said:


> Epson uses 3LCD tech to drive the actual images. The laser is only used as the light source (vs a bulb), so a triple laser isn't necessary, _*at least in the application of the tech that Epson is using and in this price category.*_





Dave Harper said:


> That is definitely not true. An RGB laser design could greatly enhance this or any projector’s performance!


I think you didn't fully comprehend my statement...

Duh. Of course a triple laser imaging source would be preferred over a 3LCD design. But, are you suggesting that there is such an option in the price range Epson is selling_ this projector_? If so, please let me know, because I'm sold! I wasn't questioning the validity of RGB laser designs, just whether or not it is reasonable for folks to complain about that not being available in a product like this when the price is where it is. Reality eventually has to seep in from where our dreams are and what is actually available


----------



## Dave Harper

csimon2 said:


> I think you didn't fully comprehend my statement...
> 
> Duh. Of course a triple laser imaging source would be preferred over a 3LCD design. But, are you suggesting that there is such an option in the price range Epson is selling_ this projector_? If so, please let me know, because I'm sold! I wasn't questioning the validity of RGB laser designs, just whether or not it is reasonable for folks to complain about that not being available in a product like this when the price is where it is. Reality eventually has to seep in from where our dreams are and what is actually available


ForMovie Theater, Hisense L9G and PX1-Pro, AWOL LTV-3500 and 2500, Samsung LSP9T, etc. Some are more expensive but still in the “price range” in my opinion.


----------



## csimon2

Dave Harper said:


> Some are more expensive but still in the “price range” in my opinion.


That's fair. I guess I was a bit hung up on Epson's stated nearly 4000 ANSI lumen rating for a projector <$4K. Certainly, if one is willing to spend an extra $1000-1500, there may be more options – and there's a supported argument to be made that $3500 and $5000 are similar price markets.


----------



## mirzank

Dave Harper said:


> ForMovie Theater, Hisense L9G and PX1-Pro, AWOL LTV-3500 and 2500, Samsung LSP9T, etc. Some are more expensive but still in the “price range” in my opinion.


What happened to that preview video and full review? The preview was supposed to be released yesterday I believe but didn’t see it.


----------



## Nazgul

mirzank said:


> What happened to that preview video and full review? The preview was supposed to be released yesterday I believe but didn’t see it.


www.projectorscreen.com put out a preview on YouTube, guess we're now waiting for a full blown review. Hopefully the review compares it against some of the other leading UST's out there.


----------



## JRock3x8

they probably didn't want to link it in here after my savage reviews of the other 2 posted 

btw I commented on their YT comment sections also. Do they hire people to write these comments? "This projector would be PERFECT for me..." Really...?


----------



## mirzank

Nazgul said:


> www.projectorscreen.com put out a preview on YouTube, guess we're now waiting for a full blown review. Hopefully the review compares it against some of the other leading UST's out there.


I searched on google but couldn’t find it. 
Checked their website and they have a long text “preview” but it just seems like it’s a readout of the spec sheets.


----------



## noonsa

It seems like the LS800 requires 20.2 in from the front (where speakers are) of the projector to a 120 inch screen. Can anyone calculate the height required from the bottom of the projector to the bottom of the screen? For reference, the Formovie Theater requires 17 inches (according to Projectorscreen.com).


----------



## Odysea

Nazgul said:


> I think the big question now is how does this stack up against the Formovie Theater. 4000 vs 2800 ANSI Lumens is a big difference, but Formovie has Dolby Vision. Hmmm....🤔


My understanding is that perceived brightness and lumens is logarithmic. Would also be curious what the real world value of a 4000 lumen ust will be


----------



## Nazgul

mirzank said:


> I searched on google but couldn’t find it.
> Checked their website and they have a long text “preview” but it just seems like it’s a readout of the spec sheets.


It's here:


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> www.projectorscreen.com put out a preview on YouTube, guess we're now waiting for a full blown review. Hopefully the review compares it against some of the other leading UST's out there.


Our preview video is trash and I locked the videographer in the basement with no food and water for their $#%#@ job on the audio and video.
We reshot the whole thing again today and will be updating it on our blog post & Youtube and removing this unlisted video from Youtube once the new one is done.
I couldn't send it home with @Dave Harper this week since we needed it again today for the re-shoot, but he will be sinking his teeth into it next week as his next in-depth review.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Our preview video is trash and I locked the videographer in the basement with no food and water for their $#%#@ job on the audio and video.
> We reshot the whole thing again today and will be updating it on our blog post & Youtube and removing this unlisted video from Youtube once the new one is done.
> I couldn't send it home with @Dave Harper this week since we needed it again today for the re-shoot, but he will be sinking his teeth into it next week as his next in-depth review.


Do you know if the variable throw distance of 0.16 to 0.4 is due to some digital zooming impacting quality or is it actual real zoom like standard long throw projectors have? 

Hopefully there will be comparisons to the formovie theatre in the review. 

And one odd request, and Im sure this isn’t standard for you or your team and quite a faux pas around here , but any chance your reviewer could do a quick take on how the picture compares to the formovie on a plain wall. 
I’m assuming due to the triple laser vs 3lcd the picture will be different on a proper screen but on a wall may be closer in quality. In which case I’d certainly be looking at getting this in addition to my formovie. I use this in my main living room and totally happy with a wall for projection.


----------



## nuevo_eph

I'm very intrigued by the setup app and the ability to trim some pixels to reduce light spillover along the screen edges. Add in the extremely close throw, saving 6" of floorspace or so, which simplifies the center channel placement and I think it might be worth the $500 over the Formovie.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> Do you know if the variable throw distance of 0.16 to 0.4 is due to some digital zooming impacting quality or is it actual real zoom like standard long throw projectors have?
> 
> Hopefully there will be comparisons to the formovie theatre in the review.
> 
> And one odd request, and Im sure this isn’t standard for you or your team and quite a faux pas around here , but any chance your reviewer could do a quick take on how the picture compares to the formovie on a plain wall.
> I’m assuming due to the triple laser vs 3lcd the picture will be different on a proper screen but on a wall may be closer in quality. In which case I’d certainly be looking at getting this in addition to my formovie. I use this in my main living room and totally happy with a wall for projection.


Digital zooming, which I dont understand why anyone would use frankly.

Unfortunately, I don't think we will be doing any "on the bare wall" testing or analysis, we barely have time for our to-do list as it is.


----------



## stargtsi

ProjectionHead said:


> Digital zooming, which I dont understand why anyone would use frankly.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think we will be doing any "on the bare wall" testing or analysis, we barely have time for our to-do list as it is.


I am ready to pull the trigger on this projector. Any eta on when it will be available to order from your site?


----------



## ProjectionHead

stargtsi said:


> I am ready to pull the trigger on this projector. Any eta on when it will be available to order from your site?


*edit : on way right now!

We have our opening order in with Epson already. Expecting stock in October, but they would not give me the ETA yet... probably since they are all at CEDIA hobnobbing about


----------



## Shoob

ProjectionHead said:


> Our preview video is trash and I locked the videographer in the basement with no food and water for their $#%#@ job on the audio and video.
> We reshot the whole thing again today and will be updating it on our blog post & Youtube and removing this unlisted video from Youtube once the new one is done.
> I couldn't send it home with @Dave Harper this week since we needed it again today for the re-shoot, but he will be sinking his teeth into it next week as his next in-depth review.


How is the fan noise on this? One of the perks of my Optoma P2 is that it’s pretty darn quiet..


----------



## en1gma582

Can someone explain to me the real world significance of the 2,500,000:1 contrast ratio? Compared to the Formovie Theater with 3,000:1, that difference seems enormous. Is that just some bogus marketing number?


----------



## Sonny Red

en1gma582 said:


> Can someone explain to me the real world significance of the 2,500,000:1 contrast ratio? Compared to the Formovie Theater with 3,000:1, that difference seems enormous. Is that just some bogus marketing number?


2,500,000:1 is a dynamic contrast. The sequential contrast is around the same between the Formovie Theater and the Epson


----------



## Newbie1963

What would the Vertical Offset be for this projector on a 110" screen.


----------



## vazkezzzzz

Whats the difference between 4k PRO uhd and 4k UHD that they have?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Nazgul said:


> It's here:


Did I hear you right? The brightest UST and with the best contrast of all UST!! Wow! @Dave Harper waiting for your review. Love the AWOL and that is very hard to beat but if what Brian said is accurate which I don’t doubt I’m a day 1 customer. Also does this reach full rec2020 like the other RGB laser projector?


----------



## clipghost

Again, not being triple laser and not including ethernet at this price point is a deal breaker.


----------



## ProjectionHead

arsenalfc89 said:


> Did I hear you right? The brightest UST and with the best contrast of all UST!! Wow! @Dave Harper waiting for your review. Love the AWOL and that is very hard to beat but if what Brian said is accurate which I don’t doubt I’m a day 1 customer. Also does this reach full rec2020 like the other RGB laser projector?


Only rec 709


----------



## ProjectionHead

Here's the published video after the re-shoot today:






please go easy on me @JRock3x8


----------



## AwokeFromHypersleep

Dave Harper said:


> I’m pretty certain the LS12000 is doing four way pixel shifting. And it showed in my single pixel test patterns in my review of it.


Thanks for confirming that.  On the one hand, it's great to hear they're open to putting 4-way shifting into their products; I was beginning to think there was an 3LCD-related technical reason to stick with 2-way -- on the other hand, its all-the-more disappointing that it was not pursued for this new model, assuming the specs I've read are accurate.

Still kind of annoying that the specs obfuscate this differentiating fact as well -- just label everything "4K PRO-UHD" and call it a day it seems.


----------



## juic-E-juice

Honestly, after the low latency for gaming, that throw ratio may be the biggest thing I’m interested in. Add in the high lumen output and I’m pretty sure I’m jumping in line for this.


----------



## arsenalfc89

ProjectionHead said:


> Only rec 709


So it will limit HDR to REC709?


----------



## ProjectionHead

arsenalfc89 said:


> So it will limit HDR to REC709?


@Dave Harper will run the sweeps soon, but Epson specs state rec 709 coverage.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

ProjectionHead said:


> Here's the published video after the re-shoot today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please go easy on me @JRock3x8


You probably don't want to upload this video a 3rd time, but there's a small editing error at the 9:09 mark. They left in your "outtake" while talking about the screen sizes.


----------



## ProjectionHead

BatmanNewsChris said:


> You probably don't want to upload this video a 3rd time, but there's a small editing error at the 9:09 mark. They left in your "outtake" while talking about the screen sizes.


I’m running out of space in the dungeon to lock these video guys up in!

I guess I’m lucky that most people get sick of me after 2 min and move on to another video, so they won’t see it 😂


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> Here's the published video after the re-shoot today:
> 
> please go easy on me @JRock3x8


normally I can't stand those "shocked" expressions thumbnails for youtube videos but yours are actually quite funny.


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> he will be sinking his teeth into it next week


hey Hey HEY! This a FAMILY show here...


----------



## MrGrimble

Is it me or is this one of the lengthier USTs around?
It looks humongous next to Brian


----------



## ProjectionHead

MrGrimble said:


> Is it me or is this one of the lengthier USTs around?
> It looks humongous next to Brian


Lol
I said the same thing when I watched this. It is rather large and along the lines of the LG units


----------



## leo0111127

arsenalfc89 said:


> Did I hear you right? The brightest UST and with the best contrast of all UST!! Wow! @Dave Harper waiting for your review. Love the AWOL and that is very hard to beat but if what Brian said is accurate which I don’t doubt I’m a day 1 customer. Also does this reach full rec2020 like the other RGB laser projector?


Based on Epson's pevious models, they use the ISO21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen. The 4000 ISO21118 lumen means 3200 ANSI lumen.
Brain needs to find it out.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> normally I can't stand those "shocked" expressions thumbnails for youtube videos but yours are actually quite funny.


That’s the nicest thing you’ve said about all of the ls800 videos to date. 
…. I got off easy


----------



## ProjectionHead

leo0111127 said:


> Based on Epson's pevious models, they use the ISO21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen. The 4000 ISO21118 lumen means 3200 ANSI lumen.
> Brain needs to find it out.


@Dave Harper will be measuring output in all modes. We only check for peak lumens however.


----------



## Nazgul

clipghost said:


> Again, not being triple laser and not including ethernet at this price point is a deal breaker.


I'm going to Google difference between single and triple laser, but if you want to tell me why you'd hard pass on single laser I'd be happy to listen! 😆


----------



## Dave Harper

Nazgul said:


> I'm going to Google difference between single and triple laser, but if you want to tell me why you'd hard pass on single laser I'd be happy to listen!


Mainly color gamut coverage and the fact that most of the competition is using triple laser in the same price range.


----------



## Nazgul

Interesting, this has no eARC which perplexes me. I thought eARC was pretty much becoming a standard today with any decent TV/Projector/Etc.


----------



## Nazgul

Hmmm, apparently you can't output sound from the ARC port on the Projector while using the HDMI 3 (Game) input. Is this normal?

I guess the expectation is you'd input into a Soundbar/Receiver then output from there to the Projector?


----------



## en1gma582

Nazgul said:


> Hmmm, apparently you can't output sound from the ARC port on the Projector while using the HDMI 3 (Game) input. Is this normal?
> 
> I guess the expectation is you'd input into a Soundbar/Receiver then output from there to the Projector?


The problem with that is that my soundbar only has one HDMI output. So if i want to use the HDMI 1 input on the projector for image enhancement and the game input for reduced input lag, i can only use the soundbar either for movies or games. Or i use another splitter which is just another component more in the signal chain.


----------



## ProjectionHead

I was just told that Epson will be shipping our opening order to us next week!


----------



## stargtsi

ProjectionHead said:


> I was just told that Epson will be shipping our opening order to us next week!
> 
> View attachment 3341040


Can we start preorders yet?


----------



## Newbie1963

ProjectionHead said:


> I was just told that Epson will be shipping our opening order to us next week!
> 
> View attachment 3341040


What is the Vertical Offset for this projector?


----------



## Nazgul

en1gma582 said:


> The problem with that is that my soundbar only has one HDMI output. So if i want to use the HDMI 1 input on the projector for image enhancement and the game input for reduced input lag, i can only use the soundbar either for movies or games. Or i use another splitter which is just another component more in the signal chain.


Yeah, I found that little tidbit out by downloading the manual from Epson's page. I feel they cut a lot of corners with the projector to hit their price point; Ethernet, eARC, Tri Laser, now this ARC limitation. Hopefully they make up for it with a stellar projector in other areas. 🤞


----------



## PixelPusher15

Sonny Red said:


> 2,500,000:1 is a dynamic contrast. The sequential contrast is around the same between the Formovie Theater and the Epson


Ya sure about that?

Epson non-UB contrast is always under 2000:1. Unless this is using the UB polarizers then I would expect it to stay within that range. I don't see Epson advertising UltraBlack anywhere on this, would be sweet if they did.


----------



## stargtsi

Nazgul said:


> Yeah, I found that little tidbit out by downloading the manual from Epson's page. I feel they cut a lot of corners with the projector to hit their price point; Ethernet, eARC, Tri Laser, now this ARC limitation. Hopefully they make up for it with a stellar projector in other areas. 🤞


Just saw that in the manual as well.

*Note: When you want to play audio on an external audio device, connect it to the projector using an optical digital audio cable. Adjust the Sound Output setting accordingly in the projector's Sound menu. You cannot output sound from the HDMI2 (ARC) port when the input source is HDMI3 (Game). *


----------



## swerlin1

This is just BS, I just read in the user manual that using arc only supports up to 5.1. Been waiting patiently and was going to order this immediately until now. who makes these idiotic decisions for something that is supposedly in development for 3 years


----------



## noonsa

stargtsi said:


> Just saw that in the manual as well.
> 
> *Note: When you want to play audio on an external audio device, connect it to the projector using an optical digital audio cable. Adjust the Sound Output setting accordingly in the projector's Sound menu. You cannot output sound from the HDMI2 (ARC) port when the input source is HDMI3 (Game). *


Wait, so you can't use an AVR or sound bar when you play a console? Or you can only connect with an optical cable?
Interesting choice...


----------



## Nazgul

noonsa said:


> Wait, so you can't use an AVR or sound bar when you play a console? Or you can only connect with an optical cable?
> Interesting choice...


Correct, you can't output via HDMI ARC (no eArc sadly) from Projector while you're inputting via the HDMI3 (Game) input. You'd have to use an Optical cable in this case if you were leveraging the Projector as the pass-through. If you have a Receiver or Soundbar that has multiple in/out you could use that instead of the Projector. So I guess take say PS5 into Soundbar then output from that into HDMI3 (Game) of Projector. I feel like Epson is making a lot of assumptions from the purchasers of the LS800, such as that they a) won't be using internal Android to stream and b) will have a relatively high-end sound system.


----------



## ProjectionHead

stargtsi said:


> Can we start preorders yet?


Sure- hit up the site and order away. If you need any help call 1-888-392-4814


----------



## stargtsi

ProjectionHead said:


> Sure- hit up the site and order away. If you need any help call 1-888-392-4814


No go site doesn't allow to add to cart and was told by Joe yesterday that they are awaiting approval to start selling.


----------



## ProjectionHead

stargtsi said:


> No go site doesn't allow to add to cart and was told by Joe yesterday that they are awaiting approval to start selling.











ProjectorScreen.com


ProjectorScreen.com - Buy the best projector screen products at ProjectorScreen.com. Offering the BEST priced selection of projector screens for everything from home theaters to professional audio-video productions. You will not find a better Projector Screen store to buy projector screens...




www.projectorscreen.com




all can be added to cart


----------



## stargtsi

ProjectionHead said:


> ProjectorScreen.com
> 
> 
> ProjectorScreen.com - Buy the best projector screen products at ProjectorScreen.com. Offering the BEST priced selection of projector screens for everything from home theaters to professional audio-video productions. You will not find a better Projector Screen store to buy projector screens...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all can be added to cart


Joe just got back to me. Thank you


----------



## ProjectionHead

Newbie1963 said:


> What is the Vertical Offset for this projector?


----------



## Newbie1963

ProjectionHead said:


> View attachment 3341062


6.7” fir 110” screen would be shortest offset I have seen. Do you concur ?


----------



## clipghost

Nazgul said:


> I'm going to Google difference between single and triple laser, but if you want to tell me why you'd hard pass on single laser I'd be happy to listen! 😆





Dave Harper said:


> Mainly color gamut coverage and the fact that most of the competition is using triple laser in the same price range.


What he said


----------



## arsenalfc89

Looking like they cut some corners to bring the price point down. So close yet so far.


----------



## Nazgul

swerlin1 said:


> This is just BS, I just read in the user manual that using arc only supports up to 5.1. Been waiting patiently and was going to order this immediately until now. who makes these idiotic decisions for something that is supposedly in development for 3 years


Yeah like I was saying above I think they are cutting a lot of corners to get the price down with the expectation that the consumer will use other devices to get the features/performance that they want such as Ethernet or 7.1/Dolby Atmos, etc. So in this case you could say connect say an Nvidia Shield to a Soundbar (which supports 7.1/Dolby Atmos, etc) then connect the Soundbar to the Arc port on the Projector. You'd also obviously use the Ethernet port on the Nvidia Shield as well since they skimped on the Ethernet port as well on the Projector.

My assumption is that they are hoping the 4000 Lumens and Picture Quality are so amazing that everyone is able to overlook things such as this. I guess we'll have to wait for the Review to see!


----------



## MrGrimble

I love this quote from the Audio Advice "review": Since the projector is capped at 60 hz in 4K we don't really have a huge problem with it not having 2.1 HDMI inputs 

Yeah, since my new car doesn't come with wheels, I don't really have a problem with it not moving 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## JRock3x8

Newbie1963 said:


> What is the Vertical Offset for this projector?


with a 0.16 throw it almost doesn't matter


----------



## Nazgul

MrGrimble said:


> I love this quote from the Audio Advice "review": Since the projector is capped at 60 hz in 4K we don't really have a huge problem with it not having 2.1 HDMI inputs
> 
> Yeah, since my new car doesn't come with wheels, I don't really have a problem with it not moving 🤣🤣🤣


Calling that a review is a great kindness. lol


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> I'm going to Google difference between single and triple laser, but if you want to tell me why you'd hard pass on single laser I'd be happy to listen! 😆


Just because somethjng is triple laser, doesn’t mean it’s better. Right now there are many single laser units I’d take over the triple laser Vava Chroma for example.


----------



## Nazgul

ProjectionHead said:


> Just because somethjng is triple laser, doesn’t mean it’s better. Right now there are many single laser units I’d take over the triple laser Vava Chroma for example.


Good to know, looking forward to seeing how the LS800 performs. 😀


----------



## Newbie1963

I think I am going to choose between this and the LG HU715QW. Although I see a lot of bad reviews on Amazon for the LG. Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Nazgul

Newbie1963 said:


> I think I am going to choose between this and the LG HU715QW. Although I see a lot of bad reviews on Amazon for the LG. Thoughts anyone?


I'm just waiting on a real review, lots of stuff looks good on paper then isn't. Isn't the LG pretty expensive?


----------



## leo0111127

ProjectionHead said:


> I was just told that Epson will be shipping our opening order to us next week!
> 
> View attachment 3341040


lol, nice pic


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Just because somethjng is triple laser, doesn’t mean it’s better. Right now there are many single laser units I’d take over the triple laser Vava Chroma for example.


Yes but at this price point, and the lacking features, you would not take it over the Formovie Theater for example.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> Yes but at this price point, and the lacking features, you would not take it over the Formovie Theater for example.


Perhaps if I wanted something with higher brightness, lower latency, a smaller throw distance and no chance for rainbow effect, I would take the Epson LS800 over the Formovie.
How do you know what features are most important for me for whatever I may be considering right now?
What features are missing that I may want/need? I use a receiver to manage my video inputs and audio, so no earc needed.
I’m not going to stream via the built in apps, so lack of Ethernet port doesn’t matter to me.
Besides, I specifically said the Vava Chroma, not the Formovie.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Newbie1963 said:


> I think I am going to choose between this and the LG HU715QW. Although I see a lot of bad reviews on Amazon for the LG. Thoughts anyone?


I have yet to put them side by side, but based on separate experience with each and for what is important to me, I’d pick the ls800.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> I'm just waiting on a real review, lots of stuff looks good on paper then isn't. Isn't the LG pretty expensive?


You’re thinking of the triple laser HU915QE/B being expensive, the HU715QW is the single laser, less expensive model.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> Just because somethjng is triple laser, doesn’t mean it’s better. Right now there are many single laser units I’d take over the triple laser Vava Chroma for example.


Can you say…..”BenQ V7050i”!!!


----------



## Newbie1963

ProjectionHead said:


> I have yet to put them side by side, but based on separate experience with each and for what is important to me, I’d pick the ls800.


Thank you very much


----------



## Pulse1

Newbie1963 said:


> I think I am going to choose between this and the LG HU715QW. Although I see a lot of bad reviews on Amazon for the LG. Thoughts anyone?


I had the LG HU715QW and got rid of it as for me the RBE was really bad. It actually destroyed the viewing experience it was that bad. My wife didn't notice the RBE. But i can't say that the RBE would affect you though so you might be ok with it? I already had the Epson EH-LS300B and to be honest that's the one that me and also my wife actually prefered image wise between the two. The LGs image just looked completely fake compared to the much cheaper Epson which is astounding really. The Epsons image just looks really Natural compared to the LGs Plastic looking image. Don't know if this is a DLP thing or just the LG but it's enough for me never to purchase another DLP Projector again. I can honestly say that my next UST will be an Epson LCD and not a DLP.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Newbie1963 said:


> 6.7” fir 110” screen would be shortest offset I have seen. Do you concur ?


I know it has the lowest throw ratio, but not sure about offset


----------



## Nazgul

I'm super curious on the phone app with the Epson as my plan is to move my projector around and something that helps me perfect the image without having to keystone and bork the performance is a win for me.


----------



## swerlin1

Newbie1963 said:


> Thank you very much


appreciate the response, as Im looking at both. Could you say what is important to you-as to why you would pick the epson. Ty


----------



## swirvin704

Ordered one , shows 10/5 for delivery. Will initially project on wall of apartment for testing. New construction home won't be ready until mid November then I'll buy a screen.


----------



## Newbie1963

swerlin1 said:


> appreciate the response, as Im looking at both. Could you say what is important to you-as to why you would pick the epson. Ty


 The vertical offset is important as is the gaming lag on the projector. Also, I have a LS300 now and have been happy with it. I just want a 4K one.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

ProjectionHead said:


> Perhaps if I wanted something with higher brightness, lower latency, a smaller throw distance and no chance for rainbow effect, I would take the Epson LS800 over the Formovie.
> How do you know what features are most important for me for whatever I may be considering right now?
> What features are missing that I may want/need? I use a receiver to manage my video inputs and audio, so no earc needed.
> I’m not going to stream via the built in apps, so lack of Ethernet port doesn’t matter to me.
> Besides, I specifically said the Vava Chroma, not the Formovie.


I owned the Formovie ( Global version). Returned it due to some operational issues, however the actual picture quality is truly excellent. But having said that, if the Epson L800 can actually meet it's brightness specifications ( on screen), and apparently measures even better with contrast ( per Brian's video) than I would have Zero issues with it lacking an Ethernet port, etc. 
At 3500.00 MSRP this would appear to be an obvious " Best Buy "......and no DLP RAINBOW ISSUES...( the Formovie triple laser wasn't to bad in this regard, but still occasionally I would see them )


----------



## 3sprit

What kind of issues?


----------



## Nazgul

Is anyone concerned about the lack of Dolby Vision or even HDR10+? Not a huge fan of this pattern of doing the bare minimum with regards to HDR...


----------



## clipghost

MRJAZZZ said:


> I owned the Formovie ( Global version). Returned it due to some operational issues, however the actual picture quality is truly excellent. But having said that, if the Epson L800 can actually meet it's brightness specifications ( on screen), and apparently measures even better with contrast ( per Brian's video) than I would have Zero issues with it lacking an Ethernet port, etc.
> At 3500.00 MSRP this would appear to be an obvious " Best Buy "......and no DLP RAINBOW ISSUES...( the Formovie triple laser wasn't to bad in this regard, but still occasionally I would see them )


Ya the places the Formovie is for sale is very limiting so I hear you on the " Best Buy " but still no ethernet and no Dolby/HDR10+ in this day. Just seems like cheap corners being cut.


----------



## jsm88

Have we confirmed which version of 4k Epson is using here?


----------



## theMadMan74

I've been following this thread with interest as we've been looking to try our first UST projector. As the Epson is in the range of other triple laser USTs, besides the Formovie, it seems like the Hisense P1X Pro is also a notable contender since it was ranked 2nd in the recent projector shootout. Would be keen to see how the LS800 measures up in the color reproduction as both the PX1 Pro and the Formovie have DV support. I'm open to hear what others have to say about this. Thanks!


----------



## jsm88

theMadMan74 said:


> I've been following this thread with interest as we've been looking to try our first UST projector. As the Epson is in the range of other triple laser USTs, besides the Formovie, it seems like the Hisense P1X Pro is also a notable contender since it was ranked 2nd in the recent projector shootout. Would be keen to see how the LS800 measures up in the color reproduction as both the PX1 Pro and the Formovie have DV support. I'm open to hear what others have to say about this. Thanks!


I’m forced to point out that there are pages worth of the formovie thread about turning off DV to get the best picture - and that seems to be a common refrain for a number of these projectors - not sure why the lack of DV is seen as such a failing


----------



## ProjectionHead

theMadMan74 said:


> I've been following this thread with interest as we've been looking to try our first UST projector. As the Epson is in the range of other triple laser USTs, besides the Formovie, it seems like the Hisense P1X Pro is also a notable contender since it was ranked 2nd in the recent projector shootout. Would be keen to see how the LS800 measures up in the color reproduction as both the PX1 Pro and the Formovie have DV support. I'm open to hear what others have to say about this. Thanks!


Px1-pro actually came in 3rd; 2nd was the LG HU915QB, but that is almost 2x as expensive as the px1-pro.


----------



## theMadMan74

ProjectionHead said:


> Px1-pro actually came in 3rd; 2nd was the LG HU915QB, but that is almost 2x as expensive as the px1-pro.


My bad, I stand corrected. I think my mind just automatically blocked out the LG because it was so expensive and the scores were quite close 😅


----------



## ProjectionHead

theMadMan74 said:


> My bad, I stand corrected. I think my mind just automatically blocked out the LG because it was so expensive and the scores were quite close 😅


Lol no worries. All the top 5 were so darn close to each other. #5 was closer to #1 than it was to #6


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> @Dave Harper will run the sweeps soon, but Epson specs state rec 709 coverage.


You may want to correct your Blog on color gamuy.

*“Color Gamut*
The Epson LS500 covered 90% of the rec.709 and 91% of the DCI-P3 color space. The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space. This means it's capable of producing up to 1.07 billion colors.
It also will feature 10 bit color video processing.”


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> You may want to correct your Blog on color gamuy.
> 
> *“Color Gamut*
> The Epson LS500 covered 90% of the rec.709 and 91% of the DCI-P3 color space. The Epson LS800 is expected to cover at least 100% of the BT.2020 color space. This means it's capable of producing up to 1.07 billion colors.
> It also will feature 10 bit color video processing.”


Yeah, that was our rumor post based on speculation and their statement of over 1 billion colors. We will have it updated with actual information now that it is available. Thanks!


----------



## MarcusD777

MRJAZZZ said:


> I owned the Formovie ( Global version). Returned it due to some operational issues, however the actual picture quality is truly excellent. But having said that, if the Epson L800 can actually meet it's brightness specifications ( on screen), and apparently measures even better with contrast ( per Brian's video) than I would have Zero issues with it lacking an Ethernet port, etc.
> At 3500.00 MSRP this would appear to be an obvious " Best Buy "......and no DLP RAINBOW ISSUES...( the Formovie triple laser wasn't to bad in this regard, but still occasionally I would see them )


What Operational issues did you have with the Formovie Global Theater to want to send it back?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Nazgul said:


> Is anyone concerned about the lack of Dolby Vision or even HDR10+? Not a huge fan of this pattern of doing the bare minimum with regards





MarcusD777 said:


> What Operational issues did you have with the Formovie Global Theater to want to send it back?


Some dust blobs. Was able to remove them with a high power fan, however it happened 2 times within a week, so decided to return the Formovie. 
Perhaps it was just my unit, as I haven't seen anyone else post issues in this regard, however I didn't want to get a replacement to verify that it was just something wrong (ineffective ) with my specific unit.


----------



## Nazgul

Looking for legit reviews out there for this and not seeing them, anyone seen any? Hopefully they'll start trickling in soon so I can decide on swapping over to this or keeping my Formovie order.


----------



## roscoeiii

I think for me the 2 big unanswered questions are:

1) how are the blacks (one of the Formovie strengths)?

2) how is the color accuracy at high lumen levels for rooms with med to high ambient light?


----------



## Nazgul

Has anyone noticed in the fine print on Epson's page that this isn't 4,000 ANSI Lumens but ISO 21118 Lumens, which equates to 3,200 ANSI Lumens (4,000 * 0.8). Apologies if this came up earlier in the thread.


----------



## leo0111127

Nazgul said:


> Has anyone noticed in the fine print on Epson's page that this isn't 4,000 ANSI Lumens but ISO 21118 Lumens, which equates to 3,200 ANSI Lumens (4,000 * 0.8). Apologies if this came up earlier in the thread.








V11HA90020 | Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 4K PRO-UHD Ultra Short-Throw 3-Chip 3LCD Smart Streaming Laser Projector | Laser Projection TV | Projectors | For Home | Epson US


The best way to watch sports, the Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Smart Streaming Laser Projector produces a larger-than-life picture up to 150 for a truly epic viewing experience.




epson.com




Download the offiail spec, they stated they used ISO 21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen.


----------



## Nazgul

leo0111127 said:


> V11HA90020 | Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 4K PRO-UHD Ultra Short-Throw 3-Chip 3LCD Smart Streaming Laser Projector | Laser Projection TV | Projectors | For Home | Epson US
> 
> 
> The best way to watch sports, the Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Smart Streaming Laser Projector produces a larger-than-life picture up to 150 for a truly epic viewing experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> epson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the offiail spec, they stated they used ISO 21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen.


I should have been more clear, I know what the spec says just curious if others were aware it wasn't ANSI. Really everything should be in ANSI so when we compare projectors we're comparing apples to apples. At least Epson isn't saying it has an ANSI it doesn't have which Formovie seems to be. :-/


----------



## mcollin6

leo0111127 said:


> V11HA90020 | Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 4K PRO-UHD Ultra Short-Throw 3-Chip 3LCD Smart Streaming Laser Projector | Laser Projection TV | Projectors | For Home | Epson US
> 
> 
> The best way to watch sports, the Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Smart Streaming Laser Projector produces a larger-than-life picture up to 150 for a truly epic viewing experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> epson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the offiail spec, they stated they used ISO 21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen.


I have been looking for a conversion factor between ISO and ANSI lumens. I have seen websites that state 1 ISO = 1.25 ANSI to 1 ISO = 0.8 ANSI. Seems like there should be a conversion that gets close. Anyone know a reliable factor?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> I should have been more clear, I know what the spec says just curious if others were aware it wasn't ANSI. Really everything should be in ANSI so when we compare projectors we're comparing apples to apples. At least Epson isn't saying it has an ANSI it doesn't have which Formovie seems to be. :-/


Heck, I wasn’t aware. Epson is the “lumen police” and has sued many companies for false advertising of their brightness spec. For them to not be using ANSI is crazy and I made a bad assumption that they were based on our co versatile about this model.
@Dave Harper will be digging in deep on this model over the next week and will be doing a slew of measurements and an in depth write up/review on it for us.


----------



## Nazgul

mcollin6 said:


> I have been looking for a conversion factor between ISO and ANSI lumens. I have seen websites that state 1 ISO = 1.25 ANSI to 1 ISO = 0.8 ANSI. Seems like there should be a conversion that gets close. Anyone know a reliable factor?


Multiplying by 0.8 seems pretty good from what I can tell, this if when using the other Lumens standard (forget the code). It's listed above in the thread.


----------



## Nazgul

ProjectionHead said:


> Heck, I wasn’t aware. Epson is the “lumen police” and has sued many companies for false advertising of their brightness spec. For them to not be using ANSI is crazy and I made a bad assumption that they were based on our co versatile about this model.
> @Dave Harper will be digging in deep on this model over the next week and will be doing a slew of measurements and an in depth write up/review on it for us.


That's good to know, think I can speak for most of us on here that we're eagerly awaiting his review!

With regards to Lumens confusion, did you notice the Formovie outputting less than it's stated 2800 ANSI? The most recent comparison video that was posted had it ~500 less which would mean it's potentially using the other Lumens standard not ANSI, if their Lumens measurement was correct that is. The Formovie website clearly states 2800 ANSI in numerous places so mildly confused. 🤔


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> That's good to know, think I can speak for most of us on here that we're eagerly awaiting his review!
> 
> With regards to Lumens confusion, did you notice the Formovie outputting less than it's stated 2800 ANSI? The most recent comparison video that was posted had it ~500 less which would mean it's potentially using the other Lumens standard not ANSI, if their Lumens measurement was correct that is. The Formovie website clearly states 2800 ANSI in numerous places so mildly confused. 🤔


We have never tested for ANSI lumens, only peak lumens and Dave measured 2,669 at the highest:









I may ask him to test another unit as well and see if we can try to measure ANSI (9 places and take average) as I just ordered a new light meter that make it easier for us to do so.


----------



## JRock3x8

Dave Harper said:


> Can you say…..”BenQ V7050i”!!!


the lack of geometric correction always stops me cold with the benq. I am simply not skilled enough or patient enough to completely line up the image the way I want.


----------



## JRock3x8

Nazgul said:


> Is anyone concerned about the lack of Dolby Vision or even HDR10+? Not a huge fan of this pattern of doing the bare minimum with regards to HDR...


4K, HDR, Dolby Vision...

it's all marketing to me - I have yet to see any commercially released film or TV series where I sit up in my chair and go "Wow!" the way I did when HD first came out. It's simply a very small improvement and for me at least, it's not really noticeable.


----------



## csimon2

JRock3x8 said:


> 4K, HDR, Dolby Vision...
> 
> it's all marketing to me - I have yet to see any commercially released film or TV series where I sit up in my chair and go "Wow!" the way I did when HD first came out. It's simply a very small improvement and for me at least, it's not really noticeable.


I assume you are only referring to HDR/DV wrt <$10K projectors. A well-produced and encoded DV program on a good OLED or QLED is a massive improvement over the SDR version (imho at least). Some streaming services seem to be doing the bare minimum in this regard, so unfortunately this isn't an across-the-board statement however.


----------



## JRock3x8

csimon2 said:


> Some streaming services seem to be doing the bare minimum in this regard


In my opinion no one is doing much of anything to support DV or HDR. The number of flims/shows that I care about that have used this tech is basically zero. Which is why I don't care about it.


----------



## 3sprit

Nazgul said:


> That's good to know, think I can speak for most of us on here that we're eagerly awaiting his review!
> 
> With regards to Lumens confusion, did you notice the Formovie outputting less than it's stated 2800 ANSI? The most recent comparison video that was posted had it ~500 less which would mean it's potentially using the other Lumens standard not ANSI, if their Lumens measurement was correct that is. The Formovie website clearly states 2800 ANSI in numerous places so mildly confused. 🤔


----------



## csimon2

JRock3x8 said:


> In my opinion no one is doing much of anything to support DV or HDR. The number of flims/shows that I care about that have used this tech is basically zero. Which is why I don't care about it.


Most of what’s on offer at D+ and HBO Max in DV is indeed underwhelming. But ST: Strange New Worlds on P+ looks amazing (Apple TV+ original content looks great too). Discovery pops as well, but Picard S2 was garbage (this however seemed to be more due to the very low apparent budget). Of course, a lot of recent 4K BDs which were actually mastered in 4K or > resolution look fantastic in DV as well.

But DV certainly does require a really good display to see all of the benefits. While the lack of many options on the projector market under $10K with available DV is disappointing, there’s a point to be made that even if there were more choices, it wouldn’t necessarily be worth enabling at the specs these projectors have on offer (Formovie being a good example based on what I’ve read elsewhere). However, DV, in a projector for me at least, is less about scorching bright whites, and more about potentially better color accuracy/tone-mapping — so the lack of it in any new HT display product in 2022 is disappointing


----------



## Newbie1963

I wish Vertical Offset was measured the same on the different websites. Some go by the center of the Lens to the bottom of the screen. While others go from the bottom of the projector to the bottom of the screen. And some UST don't have a number at all for Vertical Offset.  My problem is that my wife recently purchased a new TV stand. It is 26" high and I only have 8' ceilings. The UST that I have right now is a EPSON Ls300 and it was barely able to fit a 110" screen on my old TV stand which was 24" high. So, now it has 2-3" of dead space on the screen because of the new TV stand. I can't change the TV Stand. If you knew my wife you would understand. That is the reason Vertical Offset is such a major deal for me.
1. Vertical Offset
2. 4K picture quality
3. Input Lag


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

JRock3x8 said:


> In my opinion no one is doing much of anything to support DV or HDR. The number of flims/shows that I care about that have used this tech is basically zero. Which is why I don't care about it.


Do you only watch cable TV? Pretty much every new movie that's come out since 2016 has been released in HDR/DV. Every original TV show on Netflix/Amazon/Disney+/Apple TV is in HDR/DV. Lots of older movies have been remastered in 4K HDR/DV too.

HDR and Dolby Vision is quite stunning, but you're never going to get the "wow" factor from it on a projector. You need a high end TV for that.

Where DV does help a lot, on the USTs that it's available for, is contrast and tone-mapping. On my L9G there's a noticable improvement with DV over HDR (where no tone-mapping takes place).


----------



## Dave Harper

BatmanNewsChris said:


> ……..HDR and Dolby Vision is quite stunning, but you're never going to get the "wow" factor from it on a projector. You need a high end TV for that……..


I’d have to wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.


----------



## JRock3x8

BatmanNewsChris said:


> Do you only watch cable TV? Pretty much every new movie that's come out since 2016 has been released in HDR/DV. Every original TV show on Netflix/Amazon/Disney+/Apple TV is in HDR/DV.


Effects heavy shows like Avengers/Star Wars can't really take advantage of HDR or 4K because the effects aren't that advanced visually.

So yes, I have watched all that and it doesn't change my opinion one bit.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

JRock3x8 said:


> Effects heavy shows like Avengers/Star Wars can't really take advantage of HDR or 4K because the effects aren't that advanced visually.
> 
> So yes, I have watched all that and it doesn't change my opinion one bit.


You're right that a lot of movies' visual effects are done at 2K and then upscaled to 4K, but that has changed in recent years. 

However, none of that has anything to do with HDR. Avengers/Star Wars movies absolutely take advantage of HDR.


----------



## JRock3x8

BatmanNewsChris said:


> However, none of that has anything to do with HDR. Avengers/Star Wars movies absolutely take advantage of HDR.


Do they? I guess I'm not seeing it or it does nothing for me. I feel like I'm too much of an average joe for these conversations.


----------



## csimon2

JRock3x8 said:


> Do they? I guess I'm not seeing it or it does nothing for me. I feel like I'm too much of an average joe for these conversations.


This is getting quite a bit off-topic, but I would agree that DV performance on D+ with most Marvel/SW stuff does not always deliver on the 'hype-train' – but that isn't necessarily indicative of all DV. I've been really enamored with the output from shows like Severance and ST:SNW, or pretty much any compatible film on a service like Bravia Core. Basically, it's a YMMV situation based on what you're watching and what source you're watching it from


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

JRock3x8 said:


> Do they? I guess I'm not seeing it or it does nothing for me. I feel like I'm too much of an average joe for these conversations.


Yeah, that's what I meant in my earlier comment about having to watch HDR on a high end TV to really get the "wow" factor. If you're watching on a projector or even a mid-range TV you won't get the full impact, since a big part of HDR is its high-nit peak brightness. 

Ironically, the best HDR display is in your pocket if you have an iPhone 12 or newer. My iPhone 13 gets even brighter than my LG OLED and really "wows" me in terms of HDR. Even more so than the TV.


----------



## Nazgul

csimon2 said:


> This is getting quite a bit off-topic, but I would agree that DV performance on D+ with most Marvel/SW stuff does not always deliver on the 'hype-train' – but that isn't necessarily indicative of all DV. I've been really enamored with the output from shows like Severance and ST:SNW, or pretty much any compatible film on a service like Bravia Core. Basically, it's a YMMV situation based on what you're watching and what source you're watching it from


Curious if you're saying HDR is good in the above (say ST) or just DV is good? Seems like a not insignificant amount of projectors don't have DV so wondering how much better DV is than say HDR10.


----------



## csimon2

Nazgul said:


> Curious if you're saying HDR is good in the above (say ST) or just DV is good? Seems like a not insignificant amount of projectors don't have DV so wondering how much better DV is than say HDR10.


IMHO, DV, when mastered correctly, is absolutely worth all of the accolades. For fixed display tech, like OLED or QLED, DV can render pictures full of depth, color, contrast, and accuracy. On the <$10K home theater projector front, DV's theoretical benefits are founded less in the saturating brightness and contrast of fixed displays (though this isn't necessarily precluded from being one of said benefits), and more in the ability to use the _dynamic_ metadata present in the content to render colors with more accurate tone-mapping that the projector can actually display (i.e. reduced clipping).

Standard HDR10 is fine, but it generally suffers compared to DV due to only having _fixed_ metadata. I've seen some devices/services do a poorer job with HDR10 than in native Rec.709 SDR mode (looking at you, FOX Sports). I can't really relay any recent in-depth experience between DV and HDR10, as whenever DV is available on a service or device, that is the format I am choosing. I can tell you however that when I do occasionally begin viewing a program in HDR10 that I know is in DV through another service or device (for instance, sometimes I'll forget that I am opening the P+ app on my Shield 2015 vs Apple TV), I immediately notice it and have to make the switch to the device or service where DV is available.


----------



## Newbie1963

According to this review the LS300 is only half of 3600 Lumens. So, is the LS800 really 2000 Lumens??










2022 UST Visual Comparison


Those looking for a visual comparison between the top projectors out right now, sadly no LG in the video here it is. Can’t imagine the amount of work required to make such a video so props to the content creator.




www.avsforum.com


----------



## mcollin6

Newbie1963 said:


> According to this review the LS300 is only half of 3600 Lumens. So, is the LS800 really 2000 Lumens??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2022 UST Visual Comparison
> 
> 
> Those looking for a visual comparison between the top projectors out right now, sadly no LG in the video here it is. Can’t imagine the amount of work required to make such a video so props to the content creator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Projector Central has the LS500 coming in above 4000 lumens in Dynamic Mode and the LS800 is the replace,ent for that projector.









Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS500 UST Laser Projector Review


Exceptional brightness and good out-of-box image quality distinguish Epson's EpiqVision Ultra LS500 UST laser projector.



www.projectorcentral.com


----------



## LondonBenji

The more I read about this projector in here, the more of yet another Epson let down it is, no HDMI eARC when using the HDMI (Game) port?! Are you for real?

When is Epson going to take the UST market seriously and stop making purposefully hobbled projectors, there's tonnes of competition out there now and Epson are out here making dumb choices and are still expensive. They need to stop messing us around, give us a proper UB UST projector, heck give it the panels from the LS12000, give it Ethernet and don't screw up HDMI eARC, very very few people give a damn about built in speakers, save the damn money on those instead, unless you're going to do something useful with them like allow an AVR to treat it as a passive powered centre channel speaker.

This isn't difficult, they are perfectly capable of making this. Someone inside the company is making poor production decisions, they royally screwed up the LS500 (which is NOT an UST projector) that seems like a flop because NO ONE seems to talk about it, and now this. Get with the program Epson, you are a joke, and so is your new branding.... "EpiqVision", really?!


----------



## 3sprit

mcollin6 said:


> Projector Central has the LS500 coming in above 4000 lumens in Dynamic Mode and the LS800 is the replace,ent for that projector.


True but the LS500 with the "periscope" is conceptually another product.


----------



## Pulse1

Newbie1963 said:


> According to this review the LS300 is only half of 3600 Lumens. So, is the LS800 really 2000 Lumens??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2022 UST Visual Comparison
> 
> 
> Those looking for a visual comparison between the top projectors out right now, sadly no LG in the video here it is. Can’t imagine the amount of work required to make such a video so props to the content creator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


What Picture Mode did this reviewer measure? If it wasn't the Dynamic Picture mode and having the Brightness output set at 100% then it won't have measured 3600 Lumens. Every other review i have seen that measured the Epson EH-LS300 in the Dynamic Picture Mode with the Brightness output set at it's highest of 100% measured around the 3600 Lumens that Epson state using the Dynamic Picture mode. So i will leave it with you to make up your own mind on this.


----------



## chiefpeon

Looks like BB has my LS800 ready for pick up today. I'll be tearing into it tonight and spending more time than is reasonable with it over the weekend. I'll post anything I find interesting. I have a Silver Ticket 110" ALR screen on the wall at the moment and that's what I'll be using for initial impressions.


----------



## chiefpeon

I should add: Source signal chain ATV 4k > RZ50 > LS800


----------



## swirvin704

chiefpeon said:


> Looks like BB has my LS800 ready for pick up today. I'll be tearing into it tonight and spending more time than is reasonable with it over the weekend. I'll post anything I find interesting. I have a Silver Ticket 110" ALR screen on the wall at the moment and that's what I'll be using for initial impressions.


Mine got delivered earlier. Will play with tonight when I get home. 1st UST I've owned , plus having to use a painted wall in apartment ((not sure how good results will be as its a pale yellow color wall.)) New construction home is done next month then I'll get screen for my dedicated bonus.


----------



## got_hd-dvd

i have the BenQ V7050i and Vividstorm floor rising 120" UST screen. and though i'm perfectly happy with the Benq I just went ahead and ordered the LS800W from amazon.
I will try it with the Vividstorm ust screen, but would really like to be able to go with an even larger image if the projector can handle it. anyway just thought i'd mention it, will be watching this forum for further news and reviews.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Got a chance to check out the LS800. It’s day time (blacked out curtains but not completely pitch black) so can’t measure the black level accurately but I’ll say you can tell the black level is VERY/shockingly good along with the contrast. Picture is sharp and almost looks 3D especially with Dynamic mode. Default color looks nice but didn’t see any CMS controls. Sadly this is only a rec709 projector otherwise to me it’s a very impressive unit.


----------



## swirvin704

Based on Epson spec sheet mentions "BT2020". I'm not expert by no means. 



https://mediaserver.goepson.com/ImConvServlet/imconv/a67cf80f57144acce56f080fd98f9e35aa7c5d56/original?assetDescr=EpiqVision_Ultra_LS800B_Projector_Specification_Sheet_CPD-62401.pdf


----------



## arsenalfc89

swirvin704 said:


> Based on Epson spec sheet mentions "BT2020". I'm not expert by no means.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mediaserver.goepson.com/ImConvServlet/imconv/a67cf80f57144acce56f080fd98f9e35aa7c5d56/original?assetDescr=EpiqVision_Ultra_LS800B_Projector_Specification_Sheet_CPD-62401.pdf


Took measurements and it’s just slightly bigger than rec709. Took same measurements on the AWOL and other triple lasers and those blow pass bt2020. Was looking to add a 2nd unit as my main projector is close to perfect and can’t go back to TV sizes lol.


----------



## mirzank

swirvin704 said:


> Mine got delivered earlier. Will play with tonight when I get home. 1st UST I've owned , plus having to use a painted wall in apartment ((not sure how good results will be as its a pale yellow color wall.)) New construction home is done next month then I'll get screen for my dedicated bonus.


Could you give some thoughts on the picture after your test. I also project on a wall and with the formovie theatre it’s more than adequate so wondering how this compares as the shorter throw is better for me.


----------



## swirvin704

mirzank said:


> Could you give some thoughts on the picture after your test. I also project on a wall and with the formovie theatre it’s more than adequate so wondering how this compares as the shorter throw is better for me.


First thing is the apartment wall in our bedroom I have it setup on has a flat bump out and apparently it isn’t quite big enough for the minimum 100” screen size. As when I try to just keep it at the size needed to avoid the wall where it drops back the upper part of the image is blurry such as text etc. When I pull unit back further to increase screen size the upper image becomes clear but then it gets skewed by wall dropping back.

I still watched some shows with the upper part being distorted. Surprisingly when video is playing VS text it isn’t that bad. This isn’t the projectors fault , just the current limitations of my setup.

Take my experience with a grain of salt as my setup is far from optimal. This being the 1st UST I’ve ever owned my expectations aren’t as high as I have nothing to compare except Sony led TVs I own. I can see moments in certain scenes streaming on HBO max where the image is amazing and then when the camera pans to another scene things get kinda washed out. Maybe that’s normal for a projector , I don’t know as I’ve never owned one. I’m just using the standard picture modes built in. Hopefully in 4 to 6 weeks I’ll be in my new house and can really get the full experience.

The initial Setup was really easy. I’m currently using Wi-Fi and software built in to stream. Which I have fiber internet.


----------



## mcollin6

swirvin704 said:


> Take my experience with a grain of salt as my setup is far from optimal. This being the 1st UST I’ve ever owned my expectations aren’t as high as I have nothing to compare except Sony led TVs I own. I can see moments in certain scenes streaming on HBO max where the image is amazing and then when the camera pans to another scene things get kinda washed out. Maybe that’s normal for a projector , I don’t know as I’ve never owned one. I’m just using the standard picture modes built in. Hopefully in 4 to 6 weeks I’ll be in my new house and can really get the full experience.


That sounds like a streaming issue, not a projector issue. Do you get similar results streaming on your TV?


----------



## swirvin704

mcollin6 said:


> That sounds like a streaming issue, not a projector issue. Do you get similar results streaming on your TV?


Good point , unfortunately my 75” Sony high end LED model is in storage and been there for a year. So we only have a 40” lower end Sony that I’ve refused to watch anything I truly enjoy such as game of thrones since screen is so small and sound is so crappy. Only been forced to watch reality TV shows my wife watches such as 90day fiancé.

Last night watched 1st episodes of game of thrones new series last night on Epson through HBO max app.


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## jsm88

swirvin704 said:


> Good point , unfortunately my 75” Sony high end LED model is in storage and been there for a year. So we only have a 40” lower end Sony that I’ve refused to watch anything I truly enjoy such as game of thrones since screen is so small and sound is so crappy. Only been forced to watch reality TV shows my wife watches such as 90day fiancé.
> 
> Last night watched 1st episodes of game of thrones new series last night on Epson through HBO max app.


seems a good time to mention that the GoT episode last night was so,e what absurdly dark and has generated a raft of complaints to HBO who responded with “artists, what are you gonna do”. I mention this because from reports this episode seems to be a torture test for displays with all but the best oleds failing. The professional testers around here may want to consider it as a complement to the traditional “spaceship against stars” images they use to look at blacks and shadow detail.

also a question along those lines. I’m using an old Epson 2040 as a bridge while I decide what to replace my dear departed ae900 with. Thinking about Ust, and I trust Epson, hence why I’m here. So, the 2040 is great for 150” daytime football and good enough for the rest, but this GoT episode was killing it. The rap on this pj was, “set it and forget it, use cinema or bright cinema and you’re set”. Given how impossible it was to see anything I decided to screw around with settings, flipped over to “normal” and suddenly the blacks were downright inky and the shadow detail in these “unwatchable “ dark scenes was downright impressive. What have I been missing?


----------



## swirvin704

Last night I watched several YouTube 4k movie clips and was highly impressed by image considering it’s on a painted wall and not fully setup properly since wall size is to small for minimal 100” size. Yeah now that you mentioned game of thrones issues, I remember it being hard for my Sony Led TV to display blacks & shadows properly in certain scenes.


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## noonsa

Seems like this projector is getting in the hands of a bunch of people. Any reviews/comparisons out there yet?

One thing that struck me as odd is that they removed the ethernet port but still only have Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac). If they were going to get rid of the ethernet, why not include at least Wi-Fi 6? Give it a little more oomph in the wireless department. Sadly, another poster had it right where it seems Epson is skimping on a lot of features (eArc, Wi-Fi 6, DTS, Atmos, etc.).

Would be interesting to know if the shorter throw ratio and image brightness/contrast make up for these.


----------



## roscoeiii

Yeah, what is the opposite of future proofing?

And always concerning when listed specs like gamut aren't holding up in measurements (tho lets also see if others are getting 709 a well). Tho hardly uncommon in this space.


----------



## JuanPa

MRJAZZZ said:


> I owned the Formovie ( Global version). Returned it due to some operational issues, however the actual picture quality is truly excellent.


Can you elaborate on the issues? Mine restarts every so often, especially with HBO Max and Amazon apps. I have also had issues with it presenting 1080p video on YouTube TV. Mine is also going back.


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## Nazgul

noonsa said:


> Seems like this projector is getting in the hands of a bunch of people. Any reviews/comparisons out there yet?


Yeah I think we're all waiting on some full reviews, right now everything is just previews or first looks (which is fine) but a lot of people don't want to drop $3.5k on just that.

That being said it does seem to me that UST's are still very very niche which is why you see soooooo few reviews compared to conventional TV's.


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## juic-E-juice

roscoeiii said:


> Yeah, what is the opposite of future proofing?
> .



I believe “planned obsolescence “ is what you’re looking for.


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## Trysoft

Just unboxed mine and plugged in, bright sunny living room onto white wall (because my existing PX748 is regular throw onto regular ALR screen) and wow the brightness isn’t even a contest. Epson Ls800 is a light cannon compared to the PX748. My favorite test scene is Expanse’s first ten minutes of first episode because it features extreme darks with details in blue and red. Red jumpsuit is completely invisible and washed out at daytime on white wall with PX748. Meanwhile the ls800 is borderline watchable. I mean, it’s horrendous on a white wall at day watching night scenes, but my eyes weren’t bleeding the way they are squinting at PX748 on white wall. I cannot wait for the night time test but pretty obvious to me this is the first major brightness upgrade for myself since my ae8000u/5030ub days. I’m sure once paired with a CLR screen at night, this’ll blow anything else I ever used out of the water. Haven’t seen/used Formovie or any of the famed projector shootout products so I know my subjective opinion isn’t great. But I’m a brightness addict, always gonna have fully ambient lit living room and afaik nothing in the price range is putting up this many color lumens. Already decided I’m keeping it. Anyone with a CLR unboxed theirs yet? Would love to hear about daytime viewing cus I won’t have a screen for a few months


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## arsenalfc89

Trysoft said:


> Just unboxed mine and plugged in, bright sunny living room onto white wall (because my existing PX748 is regular throw onto regular ALR screen) and wow the brightness isn’t even a contest. Epson Ls800 is a light cannon compared to the PX748. My favorite test scene is Expanse’s first ten minutes of first episode because it features extreme darks with details in blue and red. Red jumpsuit is completely invisible and washed out at daytime on white wall with PX748. Meanwhile the ls800 is borderline watchable. I mean, it’s horrendous on a white wall at day watching night scenes, but my eyes weren’t bleeding the way they are squinting at PX748 on white wall. I cannot wait for the night time test but pretty obvious to me this is the first major brightness upgrade for myself since my ae8000u/5030ub days. I’m sure once paired with a CLR screen at night, this’ll blow anything else I ever used out of the water. Haven’t seen/used Formovie or any of the famed projector shootout products so I know my subjective opinion isn’t great. But I’m a brightness addict, always gonna have fully ambient lit living room and afaik nothing in the price range is putting up this many color lumens. Already decided I’m keeping it. Anyone with a CLR unboxed theirs yet? Would love to hear about daytime viewing cus I won’t have a screen for a few months


The AWOL does very good at day time, tv like. I had the LS800 hooked up to the same screen and it’s bout the same. Not sure if you’re gonna calibrate your LS800 but keep in mind that calibration normal decreases the brightness, how much will depend on the projector.


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## colinmatheny11

arsenalfc89 said:


> The AWOL does very good at day time, tv like. I had the LS800 hooked up to the same screen and it’s bout the same. Not sure if you’re gonna calibrate your LS800 but keep in mind that calibration normal decreases the brightness, how much will depend on the projector.


I’d love to hear your thoughts on the two once you’ve had a chance to play with the Epson. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## swirvin704

Couple screen images I took.


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## rjyap

PQ looks good and very sharp.


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## swirvin704

rjyap said:


> PQ looks good and very sharp.


Yeah it’s really good considering it’s on a painted wall in a small bedroom room without light control.


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## mcollin6

swirvin704 said:


> Yeah it’s really good considering it’s on a painted wall in a small bedroom room without light control.


How big was the image?


----------



## swirvin704

mcollin6 said:


> How big was the image?


I ended up moving furniture and projector to opposite wall so I could get larger image. My guess is somewhere around 120” as I haven’t taken exact measurements yet. If I had a piece of furniture that was shorter height I could make image larger. At this point image is touching ceiling which is 9ft.


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## swirvin704

As you can see in this un-cropped the image is touching the ceiling.


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## arsenalfc89

Throws a beautiful image. The automatic geometric correction is nice too. Didn’t realize how helpful that is and should be a option on all UST.


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## arsenalfc89

colinmatheny11 said:


> I’d love to hear your thoughts on the two once you’ve had a chance to play with the Epson.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Epson has the better contrast and slightly brighter (this can be subjective because the AWOL is more vibrant so some scenes look better on the AWOL). The AWOL image looks better to me due to the wider color gamut and it’s superb image processing. The Epson doesn’t have 3D or eArc like the AWOL and the AWOL has a lot more image settings. It’s almost as if the Epson said we want to have a great image but we have to remove some things to keep the cost down and competitive. The AWOL does so much right as a package and the Epson does the image so much right but not as a complete package.


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## swirvin704

arsenalfc89 said:


> The Epson has the better contrast and slightly brighter (this can be subjective because the AWOL is more vibrant so some scenes look better on the AWOL). The AWOL image looks better to me due to the wider color gamut and it’s superb image processing. The Epson doesn’t have 3D or eArc like the AWOL and the AWOL has a lot more image settings. It’s almost as if the Epson said we want to have a great image but we have to remove some things to keep the cost down and competitive. The AWOL does so much right as a package and the Epson does the image so much right but not as a complete package.



Curious which awol model are you comparing too?


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## Dave Harper

swirvin704 said:


> Curious which awol model are you comparing too?


Since he says “wider color gamut“, then I’m pretty sure he is referring to the LTV3500.


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## arsenalfc89

Yeah the LTV3500


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## swirvin704

arsenalfc89 said:


> Yeah the LTV3500


In your opinion is the AWOL $1500 better ?


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## arsenalfc89

swirvin704 said:


> In your opinion is the AWOL $1500 better ?


If it’s just based on PQ then no, tho the wider gamut on the AWOL will make certain content look better. A lot of these projectors look fairly similar if calibrated despite the contrast. The brightness really separates them and AWOL and LS800 are close in that department. Is $1500 worth having 3D, wider color gamut, Dolby Vision, and slightly better HDR? Depends on what you value.


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## Casey_Bryson

swirvin704 said:


> In your opinion is the AWOL $1500 better ?


You can google and find the AWOL LTV-3500 for 4.3K so more like $800. I'd say it's a no brainer: worth it even if you're paying MSRP, but YMMV.


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## Nazgul

Gotta also remember throw distance, I'm pretty sure the Epson has the best of any UST. Also has half the lag of the AWOL and 0 chance of RBE. It's not a bad projector on paper from strictly a picture perspective. If the AWOL came down to earth price wise people would gobble them up, but their brightness and 3D niche seems to be keeping them high. Maybe if they lose customers to something like the Epson they'll adjust their pricing. UST's are still pretty new so I'd rather pay $1.5k less and get great PQ and in a couple of years upgrade when things have improved in the space. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## aerodynamics

arsenalfc89 said:


> the AWOL has a lot more image settings. It’s almost as if the Epson said we want to have a great image but we have to remove some things to keep the cost down and competitive.


Epson’s menu settings are usually quite comprehensive. Did they actually cut the options here or does the AWOL unit just have way more than most?


----------



## arsenalfc89

aerodynamics said:


> Epson’s menu settings are usually quite comprehensive. Did they actually cut the options here or does the AWOL unit just have way more than most?


They have some decent settings but nothing to really calibrate with as far as I can see (there are more settings than what I attached). This projector seems to be aimed at those that don’t want to mess with too much and just want a great image in the living room. The black level and brightness are outstanding and thats about it lol.


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## rjyap

arsenalfc89 said:


> The Epson has the better contrast and slightly brighter (this can be subjective because the AWOL is more vibrant so some scenes look better on the AWOL). The AWOL image looks better to me due to the wider color gamut and it’s superb image processing. The Epson doesn’t have 3D or eArc like the AWOL and the AWOL has a lot more image settings. It’s almost as if the Epson said we want to have a great image but we have to remove some things to keep the cost down and competitive. The AWOL does so much right as a package and the Epson does the image so much right but not as a complete package.


If Epson put in tri laser with wide color gamut in this unit, we might have a new king of UST for year 2022. High brightness, high contrast (if measurement show native > 3000 and dynamic close to 10k) and wide color gamut would be a trifecta UHD projection.


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## Nazgul

rjyap said:


> If Epson put in tri laser with wide color gamut in this unit, we might have a new king of UST for year 2022. High brightness, high contrast (if measurement show native > 3000 and dynamic close to 10k) and wide color gamut would be a trifecta UHD projection.


I'm not sure if some of these companies have a firm grasp on what UST users want. I think as time goes on the quality and features will improve, for now we just need to accept that there probably isn't a perfect UST. I'm guessing it's 2 years till we see a marked improvement and companies stop cutting corners. It kinda makes sense from an economics standpoint that it's not the Big Names who are really pushing the boundaries of what a UST can do but the Independent manufacturers like AWOL and Formovie. Be curious if the Epson's and LG's of the world take notice and step up their game.


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## arsenalfc89

I think with the AWOL and Formovie threat the bigger companies are starting to step it up. LG was one of the first I’ve seen to have high brightness with a low black floor and now the Epson. But do they keep this high brightness after calibration, not sure only the AWOL I’ve seen do that so far. At least we are starting to see the trend of high brightness, low back floor, with a triple laser pick up steam. Exciting to see what Hisense, Benq does next, hopefully they follow suite and even AWOL.


----------



## Kev1000000

Just ordered the LS800! Will provide an in-depth review once I get some miles on the unit. I've had pretty much every UST you can buy at this point (except for the Formovie T1), so I'll try and do as much comparison as possible between the units.


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## Newbie1963

I thought projectorscreen.com was going to have a review out shortly?


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## swirvin704

Kev1000000 said:


> Just ordered the LS800! Will provide an in-depth review once I get some miles on the unit. I've had pretty much every UST you can buy at this point (except for the Formovie T1), so I'll try and do as much comparison as possible between the units.


I considered the HU915QB as I can get one at a good price but still more than the Epson LS800. But I read about bad RBE issues so that scared me being that it cost more. Have you had experience with the LG 915?


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## Kev1000000

swirvin704 said:


> I considered the HU915QB as I can get one at a good price but still more than the Epson LS800. But I read about bad RBE issues so that scared being that it cost more. Have you had experience with the LG 915?


That's the other one I haven't had a chance to check out yet, but also heard horror stories about RBE, so I stayed away from that one.


----------



## Nazgul

Newbie1963 said:


> I thought projectorscreen.com was going to have a review out shortly?


Last I read was in a couple of weeks, so guessing sometime next week? I think it's going to compare against or incorporate into the UST Shootout that was just done so that may be taking a little longer. I think a lot of people are eagerly awaiting that review before dropping $3.5k. Reviews on UST's are *very *few and far between unfortunately. If this were a TV there'd be dozens out by now. :-/ Gotta be happy that there are places like www.projectorscreen.com that spend the time and money to do these kind of in-depth reviews, props to them.


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## mmcbintx

Just got my tracking number an hour ago, hope to have everything on Wednesday. First time with a projector, hoping it works out even though I know there are some less-than-ideal aspects. Almost went with the Formovie, but was just a bit concerned about a lesser-known/newer brand. Also hoping to see more reviews and details, but ultimately as long as it fits my use case, I think I'll be happy.


----------



## Dave Harper

Newbie1963 said:


> I thought projectorscreen.com was going to have a review out shortly?





Nazgul said:


> Last I read was in a couple of weeks, so guessing sometime next week? I think it's going to compare against or incorporate into the UST Shootout that was just done so that may be taking a little longer. I think a lot of people are eagerly awaiting that review before dropping $3.5k. Reviews on UST's are *very *few and far between unfortunately. If this were a TV there'd be dozens out by now. :-/ Gotta be happy that there are places like www.projectorscreen.com that spend the time and money to do these kind of in-depth reviews, props to them.


I’m working on it as we speak. Relax and have patience my young padawans!


----------



## swirvin704

mmcbintx said:


> Just got my tracking number an hour ago, hope to have everything on Wednesday. First time with a projector, hoping it works out even though I know there are some less-than-ideal aspects. Almost went with the Formovie, but was just a bit concerned about a lesser-known/newer brand. Also hoping to see more reviews and details, but ultimately as long as it fits my use case, I think I'll be happy.


Sounds just like me. The Epson LS800 is my first foray into UST. As far as setup goes it was extremely simple. Took less than 30minutes to have a nice image projected on a painted wall.

I felt the same way about the Formovie.


----------



## mmcbintx

swirvin704 said:


> Sounds just like me. The Epson LS800 is my first foray into UST. As far as setup goes it was extremely simple. Took less than 30minutes to have a nice image projected on a painted wall.
> 
> I felt the same way about the Formovie.


I'm going to hope I'm willing to deal with my bowed, unlevel, textured wall as a projection surface until at least the weekend when I can get the screen set up. I know there are at least 2 intermediary devices between your projector and my eyes, but the images you posted made me feel better. So thanks for sharing those!


----------



## swirvin704

mmcbintx said:


> I'm going to hope I'm willing to deal with my bowed, unlevel, textured wall as a projection surface until at least the weekend when I can get the screen set up. I know there are at least 2 intermediary devices between your projector and my eyes, but the images you posted made me feel better. So thanks for sharing those!


Glad those photos helped. Yeah my new house will be done in about 4 weeks. I have a bonus room I plan on using a 120" screen on the back wall. Which I’m also painting a dark color. Hoping the screen improves the image even more.


----------



## chiefpeon

Initial thoughts on my LS800

First a little bit about my gear and room:
Signal path is: ATV4k >> Onkyo TX-RZ50 >> LS800 HDMI 2
Room is about 14x14 with 7.5' ceiling, 90%+ light controlled.
LS800 is currently showing on a SilverTicket 110" ALR screen, soon to be replaced with 120".


*Brightness*: Yes, this thing is BRIGHT!! Easily overcomes all the lights I have in my room and it gets pretty bright in there. Note that laser engine level is handled separately with a rocker on the remote. When I'm changing content or dimming lights and end up with washed out picture, I usually find that I've left the laser brightness cranked up. This won't automatically change unless you use the Adaptive Light Output function. Dynamic mode with ALO turned on with some tweaks will likely be my daily driver mode.

*Color*: Coming from a VAVA Chroma, the color gamut is noticeably smaller and that's not a bad thing. The Chroma has had serious color/gamut mapping issues and even worse motion issues, thus my move to the Epson. Colors are very solid though and skin tones stay true in all image presets. Cinema mode is quite useful in my setup as it more reasonably represents the source material. I had to bring the brightness slider down to about 47 to get letterboxing to recede to my liking. I turned the saturation up to 60-65. This does not seem to crush bright colors and helps the overall pop of the image.

*Blacks*: I'll just say it, the weak point of this projector is the black levels. I will also say that this should not put you off of this projector even though I was initially concerned that this would be the reason I might return the unit. Turning the brightness (in custom image settings, not the light engine level) slider down while in Cinema mode helps letterboxing to recede and it only needs to be knocked down to around 47 while the light level is set to minimum. Otherwise black levels are very decent and detail in shadow areas is usually rather solid. Of course they could be better but I don't have pockets deep enough to bring home a JVC.

*Motion*: As mentioned earlier, I had a VAVA Chroma and it was a motion disaster in specific cases. In dark scenes in movies they were leaving some sort of weird processing engaged on all but the game mode and it causes image ghosting and in my case, Dune at 1 hour 30 minutes, legs were completely blurred as the characters scrambled up the dune. This was my main reason for looking at the LS800 and, thankfully, Epson has this handled very well. With Frame Interpolation turned off, 24 frame pulldown is handled as you would expect of any modern display device.. Some side panning shots some judder but nothing I can’t live with. Frame interpolation makes sports extra alive and would probably be the only time I use it. It does tend to introduce some odd artifacting when turned all the way up as the system tries to guess what the "missing" fames should look like. This is a minor issue and by no means a reason to rule the LS800 out. This may also be refined by Epson in further updates.

*Other image notes*: Yes there is a screen-door and yes it's blurred by the pixel shifting. Overall the image is not as bonkers sharp as the Chroma (who knows what they're doing under the hood tho) but after a bit of tweaking, I did not find it lacking in detail. The manual focus ring under the right hand panel is great as you know you're actually using optics to focus the image not some electronic hocus-focus found in other models. Once you focus you're done so I don't find this to be a hassle.

There is no rainbow effect and that was another reason I moved to the LS800. I see RBE on any DLP single-chip projector and I can usually ignore it but it's still there. Of course the LS800 puts all colors up at the same time and this has a side effect of the image having a feeling of added depth on footage that's 60 fps and has some parallax. The screen saver video clips on the ATV are particularly engaging due to this and it's a notable difference in presentation compared to the DLP engine I'm coming from.

*Inputs*: HDMI 2 is your ARC connection. HDMI 1 is . . . another 2.0 port. HDMI 3 is the "GAME" input. There is very little input lag on HDMI 3 but Epson stripped out a lot to get there. Firstly there is no image adjustment other than laser light level. There is no ARC support. None. Audio can only be output to the built in speakers or over optical SPDIF and that can only be 2 channel PCM or "auto" which can carry DOLBY AC3 or DTS 5.1 if your device outputs that format. My switch only outputs 2.0 or 5.1 PCM so this is a weird situation to be in. You can also use the built-in speakers. If you really have to. I’m planning on using my Zone 2 out on my receiver into HDMI 3 as a work around to get 5.1 PCM from the switch into the system and still get the lowest latency I can.

*Fan noise*: I haven’t measured it but it’s generally unobtrusive and seems to directly ramp up as you turn the light engine level up. You can hear it from time to time but it’s not bothersome and I really only noticed it while I was browsing menus and selecting content when nothing was playing. I did end up doing a firmware update and the unit will turn off the laser and turn the fans to 100% while it updates. It can absolutely be heard when it’s doing this. Epson has made sure the internals won’t burn up which is good. 

*Remote/CEC*: Generally solid but the battery door is unusually flexible. Not sure about longevity with that. Button feel is solid. The only dedicated service button is for YouTube Music. I just . . . . . . . yeah . . don’t know. CEC does pass from the LS800 to the ATV including direction, volume, select and menu/back. The LS800 does not seem to take power off commands from the ATV consistently. Turning the LS800 will successfully power off the receiver and ATV.

*And now the ugly*: There’s a dead pixel in the lower righthand portion of the screen. BUMMMER!!!! I’ve already contacted Epson and they will replace it of course but I’m going to try to take it to Best Buy Thursday as, supposedly, they will have stock on hand. I guess we’ll see.

*Wrap up:*
I haven't spent significant time with built in apps yet. They seem fine and Android TV is a good fallback system and keeps things coherent. Netflix is not available, undoubtedly due Epson not paying license fees or something. The built in speakers are serviceable, say for temporary back yard movie night or as a hold over till you build out a proper system. ut as always, this really deserves a full blow audio system.


----------



## arsenalfc89

chiefpeon said:


> Initial thoughts on my LS800
> 
> First a little bit about my gear and room:
> Signal path is: ATV4k >> Onkyo TX-RZ50 >> LS800 HDMI 2
> Room is about 14x14 with 7.5' ceiling, 90%+ light controlled.
> LS800 is currently showing on a SilverTicket 110" ALR screen, soon to be replaced with 120".
> 
> 
> *Brightness*: Yes, this thing is BRIGHT!! Easily overcomes all the lights I have in my room and it gets pretty bright in there. Note that laser engine level is handled separately with a rocker on the remote. When I'm changing content or dimming lights and end up with washed out picture, I usually find that I've left the laser brightness cranked up. This won't automatically change unless you use the Adaptive Light Output function. Dynamic mode with ALO turned on with some tweaks will likely be my daily driver mode.
> 
> *Color*: Coming from a VAVA Chroma, the color gamut is noticeably smaller and that's not a bad thing. The Chroma has had serious color/gamut mapping issues and even worse motion issues, thus my move to the Epson. Colors are very solid though and skin tones stay true in all image presets. Cinema mode is quite useful in my setup as it more reasonably represents the source material. I had to bring the brightness slider down to about 47 to get letterboxing to recede to my liking. I turned the saturation up to 60-65. This does not seem to crush bright colors and helps the overall pop of the image.
> 
> *Blacks*: I'll just say it, the weak point of this projector is the black levels. I will also say that this should not put you off of this projector even though I was initially concerned that this would be the reason I might return the unit. Turning the brightness (in custom image settings, not the light engine level) slider down while in Cinema mode helps letterboxing to recede and it only needs to be knocked down to around 47 while the light level is set to minimum. Otherwise black levels are very decent and detail in shadow areas is usually rather solid. Of course they could be better but I don't have pockets deep enough to bring home a JVC.
> 
> *Motion*: As mentioned earlier, I had a VAVA Chroma and it was a motion disaster in specific cases. In dark scenes in movies they were leaving some sort of weird processing engaged on all but the game mode and it causes image ghosting and in my case, Dune at 1 hour 30 minutes, legs were completely blurred as the characters scrambled up the dune. This was my main reason for looking at the LS800 and, thankfully, Epson has this handled very well. With Frame Interpolation turned off, 24 frame pulldown is handled as you would expect of any modern display device.. Some side panning shots some judder but nothing I can’t live with. Frame interpolation makes sports extra alive and would probably be the only time I use it. It does tend to introduce some odd artifacting when turned all the way up as the system tries to guess what the "missing" fames should look like. This is a minor issue and by no means a reason to rule the LS800 out. This may also be refined by Epson in further updates.
> 
> *Other image notes*: Yes there is a screen-door and yes it's blurred by the pixel shifting. Overall the image is not as bonkers sharp as the Chroma (who knows what they're doing under the hood tho) but after a bit of tweaking, I did not find it lacking in detail. The manual focus ring under the right hand panel is great as you know you're actually using optics to focus the image not some electronic hocus-focus found in other models. Once you focus you're done so I don't find this to be a hassle.
> 
> There is no rainbow effect and that was another reason I moved to the LS800. I see RBE on any DLP single-chip projector and I can usually ignore it but it's still there. Of course the LS800 puts all colors up at the same time and this has a side effect of the image having a feeling of added depth on footage that's 60 fps and has some parallax. The screen saver video clips on the ATV are particularly engaging due to this and it's a notable difference in presentation compared to the DLP engine I'm coming from.
> 
> *Inputs*: HDMI 2 is your ARC connection. HDMI 1 is . . . another 2.0 port. HDMI 3 is the "GAME" input. There is very little input lag on HDMI 3 but Epson stripped out a lot to get there. Firstly there is no image adjustment other than laser light level. There is no ARC support. None. Audio can only be output to the built in speakers or over optical SPDIF and that can only be 2 channel PCM or "auto" which can carry DOLBY AC3 or DTS 5.1 if your device outputs that format. My switch only outputs 2.0 or 5.1 PCM so this is a weird situation to be in. You can also use the built-in speakers. If you really have to. I’m planning on using my Zone 2 out on my receiver into HDMI 3 as a work around to get 5.1 PCM from the switch into the system and still get the lowest latency I can.
> 
> *Fan noise*: I haven’t measured it but it’s generally unobtrusive and seems to directly ramp up as you turn the light engine level up. You can hear it from time to time but it’s not bothersome and I really only noticed it while I was browsing menus and selecting content when nothing was playing. I did end up doing a firmware update and the unit will turn off the laser and turn the fans to 100% while it updates. It can absolutely be heard when it’s doing this. Epson has made sure the internals won’t burn up which is good.
> 
> *Remote/CEC*: Generally solid but the battery door is unusually flexible. Not sure about longevity with that. Button feel is solid. The only dedicated service button is for YouTube Music. I just . . . . . . . yeah . . don’t know. CEC does pass from the LS800 to the ATV including direction, volume, select and menu/back. The LS800 does not seem to take power off commands from the ATV consistently. Turning the LS800 will successfully power off the receiver and ATV.
> 
> *And now the ugly*: There’s a dead pixel in the lower righthand portion of the screen. BUMMMER!!!! I’ve already contacted Epson and they will replace it of course but I’m going to try to take it to Best Buy Thursday as, supposedly, they will have stock on hand. I guess we’ll see.


Great write up. So the black level isn’t that good? When I fired the Epson granted like I said it was during the day time, the black level looked good to me by UST standard. Still have it here but too lazy to even set it back up again lol.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Looks like we need that Formovie comparison to understand where the black levels are.


----------



## swirvin704

chiefpeon said:


> Initial thoughts on my LS800
> 
> First a little bit about my gear and room:
> Signal path is: ATV4k >> Onkyo TX-RZ50 >> LS800 HDMI 2
> Room is about 14x14 with 7.5' ceiling, 90%+ light controlled.
> LS800 is currently showing on a SilverTicket 110" ALR screen, soon to be replaced with 120".
> 
> 
> *Brightness*: Yes, this thing is BRIGHT!! Easily overcomes all the lights I have in my room and it gets pretty bright in there. Note that laser engine level is handled separately with a rocker on the remote. When I'm changing content or dimming lights and end up with washed out picture, I usually find that I've left the laser brightness cranked up. This won't automatically change unless you use the Adaptive Light Output function. Dynamic mode with ALO turned on with some tweaks will likely be my daily driver mode.
> 
> *Color*: Coming from a VAVA Chroma, the color gamut is noticeably smaller and that's not a bad thing. The Chroma has had serious color/gamut mapping issues and even worse motion issues, thus my move to the Epson. Colors are very solid though and skin tones stay true in all image presets. Cinema mode is quite useful in my setup as it more reasonably represents the source material. I had to bring the brightness slider down to about 47 to get letterboxing to recede to my liking. I turned the saturation up to 60-65. This does not seem to crush bright colors and helps the overall pop of the image.
> 
> *Blacks*: I'll just say it, the weak point of this projector is the black levels. I will also say that this should not put you off of this projector even though I was initially concerned that this would be the reason I might return the unit. Turning the brightness (in custom image settings, not the light engine level) slider down while in Cinema mode helps letterboxing to recede and it only needs to be knocked down to around 47 while the light level is set to minimum. Otherwise black levels are very decent and detail in shadow areas is usually rather solid. Of course they could be better but I don't have pockets deep enough to bring home a JVC.
> 
> *Motion*: As mentioned earlier, I had a VAVA Chroma and it was a motion disaster in specific cases. In dark scenes in movies they were leaving some sort of weird processing engaged on all but the game mode and it causes image ghosting and in my case, Dune at 1 hour 30 minutes, legs were completely blurred as the characters scrambled up the dune. This was my main reason for looking at the LS800 and, thankfully, Epson has this handled very well. With Frame Interpolation turned off, 24 frame pulldown is handled as you would expect of any modern display device.. Some side panning shots some judder but nothing I can’t live with. Frame interpolation makes sports extra alive and would probably be the only time I use it. It does tend to introduce some odd artifacting when turned all the way up as the system tries to guess what the "missing" fames should look like. This is a minor issue and by no means a reason to rule the LS800 out. This may also be refined by Epson in further updates.
> 
> *Other image notes*: Yes there is a screen-door and yes it's blurred by the pixel shifting. Overall the image is not as bonkers sharp as the Chroma (who knows what they're doing under the hood tho) but after a bit of tweaking, I did not find it lacking in detail. The manual focus ring under the right hand panel is great as you know you're actually using optics to focus the image not some electronic hocus-focus found in other models. Once you focus you're done so I don't find this to be a hassle.
> 
> There is no rainbow effect and that was another reason I moved to the LS800. I see RBE on any DLP single-chip projector and I can usually ignore it but it's still there. Of course the LS800 puts all colors up at the same time and this has a side effect of the image having a feeling of added depth on footage that's 60 fps and has some parallax. The screen saver video clips on the ATV are particularly engaging due to this and it's a notable difference in presentation compared to the DLP engine I'm coming from.
> 
> *Inputs*: HDMI 2 is your ARC connection. HDMI 1 is . . . another 2.0 port. HDMI 3 is the "GAME" input. There is very little input lag on HDMI 3 but Epson stripped out a lot to get there. Firstly there is no image adjustment other than laser light level. There is no ARC support. None. Audio can only be output to the built in speakers or over optical SPDIF and that can only be 2 channel PCM or "auto" which can carry DOLBY AC3 or DTS 5.1 if your device outputs that format. My switch only outputs 2.0 or 5.1 PCM so this is a weird situation to be in. You can also use the built-in speakers. If you really have to. I’m planning on using my Zone 2 out on my receiver into HDMI 3 as a work around to get 5.1 PCM from the switch into the system and still get the lowest latency I can.
> 
> *Fan noise*: I haven’t measured it but it’s generally unobtrusive and seems to directly ramp up as you turn the light engine level up. You can hear it from time to time but it’s not bothersome and I really only noticed it while I was browsing menus and selecting content when nothing was playing. I did end up doing a firmware update and the unit will turn off the laser and turn the fans to 100% while it updates. It can absolutely be heard when it’s doing this. Epson has made sure the internals won’t burn up which is good.
> 
> *Remote/CEC*: Generally solid but the battery door is unusually flexible. Not sure about longevity with that. Button feel is solid. The only dedicated service button is for YouTube Music. I just . . . . . . . yeah . . don’t know. CEC does pass from the LS800 to the ATV including direction, volume, select and menu/back. The LS800 does not seem to take power off commands from the ATV consistently. Turning the LS800 will successfully power off the receiver and ATV.
> 
> *And now the ugly*: There’s a dead pixel in the lower righthand portion of the screen. BUMMMER!!!! I’ve already contacted Epson and they will replace it of course but I’m going to try to take it to Best Buy Thursday as, supposedly, they will have stock on hand. I guess we’ll see.
> 
> *Wrap up:*
> I haven't spent significant time with built in apps yet. They seem fine and Android TV is a good fallback system and keeps things coherent. Netflix is not available, undoubtedly due Epson not paying license fees or something. The built in speakers are serviceable, say for temporary back yard movie night or as a hold over till you build out a proper system. ut as always, this really deserves a full blow audio system.


Great write up! Any screenshots you can share? Curious to see how yours look since you are projecting onto a screen VS my painted wall screenshots I shared.


----------



## Nazgul

Black Levels are really important to me, guess we'll have to see Dave H's review and hope there's a comparison between this and the Formovie.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Did a quick measurement and dynamic mode contrast is similar to what Brian said. The black level gets really low for a UST projector better than any UST I've seen (non of the UST are really black in my opinion). The intrascene contrast will shed more light tho (curious to see Dave review).


----------



## roscoeiii

arsenalfc89 said:


> If it’s just based on PQ then no, tho the wider gamut on the AWOL will make certain content look better. A lot of these projectors look fairly similar if calibrated despite the contrast. The brightness really separates them and AWOL and LS800 are close in that department. Is $1500 worth having 3D, wider color gamut, Dolby Vision, and slightly better HDR? Depends on what you value.


 Since we've moved to a discussion of blacks, how to those compare between the AWOL 3500 and the LS800?


----------



## arsenalfc89

roscoeiii said:


> Since we've moved to a discussion of blacks, how to those compare between the AWOL 3500 and the LS800?


LS800 has better black level but while viewing content is it drastically better? No. These UST projectors aren't drastically different, see the projectorscreen shootout. I measured black on the LS800 at .009nits in dynamic, AWOL in dynamic at .035nits, T1 at .024nits (all black screen measurements which doesn't represent actual viewing material). Non of them are close to JVC level so you're really looking at dark grays lol. The images they put out are VERY nice tho. Attached is what the AWOL looks like, look at the top and bottom black bars, zoom in.


----------



## mcollin6

Nazgul said:


> Last I read was in a couple of weeks, so guessing sometime next week? I think it's going to compare against or incorporate into the UST Shootout that was just done so that may be taking a little longer. I think a lot of people are eagerly awaiting that review before dropping $3.5k. Reviews on UST's are *very *few and far between unfortunately. If this were a TV there'd be dozens out by now. :-/ Gotta be happy that there are places like www.projectorscreen.com that spend the time and money to do these kind of in-depth reviews, props to them.


It’s going to be difficult to compare the LS800 to the Shootout results because of the way that the data was adjusted. By making the best performer in each category a 10, you now have a relative scale for comparison. That would mean that in order to do a comparison with a projector that is not part of the initial group, you would have to compare it with each top ranked projector individually. Hopefully, Brian still has the raw scores before they were adjusted and can use those for the comparison. That would give the most accurate results. A relative sliding scale is very difficult to reuse with other products that weren’t in the initial assessment, especially when certain characteristics were weighted higher than others.

I have a background in statistical analysis and I was frustrated by how PC presented the results for this reason. In reality, the projectors should have been compared against a baseline like the JVC they had at the event or a calibrated monitor that could have been kept in the room, and the weightings should have been provided as not all use cases are biased towards dark room viewing, which is how the results were interpreted. As products that are advertised as living room TV replacements, the weighting should have most likely been towards bright room viewing, with ambient light measurements taken and published.

Honestly, the best comparison if the raw data isn’t available would just be a head to head with the Formovie since it was the highest rated.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> It’s going to be difficult to compare the LS800 to the Shootout results because of the way that the data was adjusted. By making the best performer in each category a 10, you now have a relative scale for comparison. That would mean that in order to do a comparison with a projector that is not part of the initial group, you would have to compare it with each top ranked projector individually. Hopefully, Brian still has the raw scores before they were adjusted and can use those for the comparison. That would give the most accurate results. A relative sliding scale is very difficult to reuse with other products that weren’t in the initial assessment, especially when certain characteristics were weighted higher than others.
> 
> I have a background in statistical analysis and I was frustrated by how PC presented the results for this reason. In reality, the projectors should have been compared against a baseline like the JVC they had at the event or a calibrated monitor that could have been kept in the room, and the weightings should have been provided as not all use cases are biased towards dark room viewing, which is how the results were interpreted. As products that are advertised as living room TV replacements, the weighting should have most likely been towards bright room viewing, with ambient light measurements taken and published.
> 
> Honestly, the best comparison if the raw data isn’t available would just be a head to head with the Formovie since it was the highest rated.


We were not going to try to compare it to the “Showdown” results, we are going to incorporate it into our own, head to head Shootout Series that we run on YouTube.


----------



## chiefpeon

Folks,

I should add that I was spoiled by some very good conventional LCD TVs when it comes to black level and I didn't expect the LS800 to reach those levels of black. I'm also working on my room to try to control some lateral light reflections off a wall and to the point others have made, the native black level is good but, depending on content, the black level presented to the projector may lift that black level some, which is irritating but that's how things are at this point. After living with the LS800 for a few days, I'm wondering if Epson has a three laser UB UST unit in the works. IF they do, it would be a truly amazing product. I also wonder if they can update their HDR mapping to recognize letterboxing and drop the incoming signal black level to the system native level. One can only hope.

I'm really only disappointed with the stuck pixel and hopefully I'll have that sorted in a couple days.


----------



## JimBob1971

I can’t comment on the LS800 but the black levels of the Formovie are far better than the LS500 (and EF12). I have owned all three and the Formovie is my favourite. The LS500 was amazing with bright scenes but overall the contrast was poor in comparison to the Formovie (And the Samsung LS9PT and Xiomi Halo).

If the LS500 had better black floor I’d have kept it. Fingers crossed the LS800 is better.


----------



## Gwreck

JimBob1971 said:


> I can’t comment on the LS800 but the black levels of the Formovie are far better than the LS500 (and EF12). I have owned all three and the Formovie is my favourite. The LS500 was amazing with bright scenes but overall the contrast was poor in comparison to the Formovie (And the Samsung LS9PT and Xiomi Halo).
> 
> If the LS500 had better black floor I’d have kept it. Fingers crossed the LS800 is better.


I have an ls500 currently and I do like the brightness but the black levels are awful. A ls800 arrives today at my house and hopefully the black levels are much better otherwise I will return it.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JimBob1971 said:


> I can’t comment on the LS800 but the black levels of the Formovie are far better than the LS500 (and EF12). I have owned all three and the Formovie is my favourite. The LS500 was amazing with bright scenes but overall the contrast was poor in comparison to the Formovie (And the Samsung LS9PT and Xiomi Halo).
> 
> If the LS500 had better black floor I’d have kept it. Fingers crossed the LS800 is better.


You don't have to " cross your fingers "....Per Brian's First look video on the LS 800 the contrast measured 3700 ( if my memory serves me correctly)....So it's not only better than the LS 500, but measures better than the Formovie, which I believe is around 3100 . None of these numbers are anywhere near what JVC projectors can do but for a UST it's impressive.


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> You don't have to " cross your fingers "....Per Brian's First look video on the LS 800 the contrast measured 3700 ( if my memory serves me correctly)....So it's not only better than the LS 500, but measures better than the Formovie, which I believe is around 3100 . None of these numbers are anywhere near what JVC projectors can do but for a UST it's impressive.


I can confirm the 3700:1 number, since I’m the one who took it!


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Gwreck said:


> I have an ls500 currently and I do like the brightness but the black levels are awful. A ls800 arrives today at my house and hopefully the black levels are much better otherwise I will return it.


 Please do report back on this. Take pics!


----------



## PixelPusher15

Dave Harper said:


> I can confirm the 3700:1 number, since I’m the one who took it!


Dynamic contrast on or is that native?


----------



## Gwreck

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Please do report back on this. Take pics!


Will do, I’m looking forward to firing it up.


----------



## Gwreck

MRJAZZZ said:


> You don't have to " cross your fingers "....Per Brian's First look video on the LS 800 the contrast measured 3700 ( if my memory serves me correctly)....So it's not only better than the LS 500, but measures better than the Formovie, which I believe is around 3100 . None of these numbers are anywhere near what JVC projectors can do but for a UST it's impressive.


If the black levels are this good this Epson is going to be very popular.


----------



## 3sprit

MRJAZZZ said:


> but measures better than the Formovie, which I believe is around 3100


The Theater was measured "calibrated": 3600.


----------



## swirvin704

Cinema mode during the day with blanket over the blinds. 2nd image is dynamic mode. This is also on painted apartment wall & taken with iPhone 14 pro.


----------



## Pulse1

swirvin704 said:


> Cinema mode during the day with blanket over the blinds. 2nd image is dynamic mode.
> View attachment 3345903
> 
> View attachment 3345904


Can you post a pic with Natural mode with HD SDR Rec709 as that's usually the most accurate mode for that content on Epson Projectors.


----------



## swirvin704

Pulse1 said:


> Can you post a pic with Natural mode with HD SDR Rec709 as that's usually the most accurate mode for that content on Epson Projectors.


This was moonfall from HBOmax native app using Wi-Fi. It’s not HDR content. Currently the Epson isn’t supporting the Netflix app. I can try to hookup my Roku to it and try netflix HDR. I don’t see any settings under image far as Rec709 options. But I’m a newbie as this is my 1st projector.


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## swirvin704

Non-HDR HBOmax Dune . Painted wall. iPhone 14 pro. Daytime with blanket over blinds. Picture mode: natural


----------



## swirvin704

Very impressed with Amazon prime “ring of power”HDR. Picture mode: Natural. Painted wall . iPhone 14 pro. Camera shots don’t do justice as it’s better in person as I can’t pause shot to get image since it leaves menus up when paused. Room not fullly darkened.


----------



## Dave Harper

PixelPusher15 said:


> Dynamic contrast on or is that native?


I honestly don’t recall. I did those really quick while I was back in the office and didn’t mentally take note or notice where it was set, but that’s the day I had to leave due to a medical emergency and haven’t been back. I think what threw me was I had to figure out how to get something close to D65 using only the wall color and the very coarse Color Temp slider, since this doesn’t have any white balance tools, or any others like CMS for that matter! A huge oversight in my opinion. This took me much longer than expected, all the while feeling worse and worse as the time wore on. 

I do have the unit here with me now and am doing full calibrations and review on it as we speak. I’ll double check and report all the color and dynamic contrast mode’s value combinations as I did with the LS11000 and 12000.


----------



## Dave Harper

swirvin704 said:


> This was moonfall from HBOmax native app using Wi-Fi. It’s not HDR content. Currently the Epson isn’t supporting the Netflix app. I can try to hookup my Roku to it and try netflix HDR. *I don’t see any settings under image far as Rec709 options. *But I’m a newbie as this is my 1st projector.


Yes there is no color gamut selection amongst many other calibration type controls which are missing.


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> I honestly don’t recall. I did those really quick while I was back in the office and didn’t mentally take note or notice where it was set, but that’s the day I had to leave due to a medical emergency and haven’t been back. I think what threw me was I had to figure out how to get something close to D65 using only the wall color and the very coarse Color Temp slider, since this doesn’t have any white balance tools, or any others like CMS for that matter! A huge oversight in my opinion. This took me much longer than expected, all the while feeling worse and worse as the time wore on.
> 
> I do have the unit here with me now and am doing full calibrations and review on it as we speak. I’ll double check and report all the color and dynamic contrast mode’s value combinations as I did with the LS11000 and 12000.


Hope you are feeling better!


----------



## Pulse1

Dave Harper said:


> Yes there is no color gamut selection amongst many other calibration type controls which are missing.


I have the EH-LS300B the baby brother of this line of USTs and i think Epson have mostly copied the Picture settings from that and maybe added a couple more that aren't on the LS300 Dave. Agree with you about the lack of these controls and some of us have asked Epson if they could add them in a future update to the EH-LS300 USTs and the response was that it would cost too much money as they don't see it as a viable option due to the lack of demand. Maybe you can at least get them to listen and consider that it it is indeed a viable option to add these controls?


----------



## Nazgul

Does Epson get feedback on stuff like lack of calibration tools in the projector? Seems like a really bizarre oversight for something this expensive. UST's aren't exactly mainstream so you'd think people getting them would do calibration and having to do it all manually with offline tools seems insanely cumbersome.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Nazgul said:


> Does Epson get feedback on stuff like lack of calibration tools in the projector? Seems like a really bizarre oversight for something this expensive. UST's aren't exactly mainstream so you'd think people getting them would do calibration and having to do it all manually with offline tools seems insanely cumbersome.


I think their target audience is plug and play and they may be using this as a test to see what the market wants, to maybe see if giving less options, and focusing on contrast will still sell well.


----------



## Dave Harper

Nazgul said:


> *Does Epson get feedback on stuff like lack of calibration tools in the projector? *Seems like a really bizarre oversight for something this expensive. UST's aren't exactly mainstream so you'd think people getting them would do calibration and having to do it all manually with offline tools seems insanely cumbersome.


Yes.


----------



## mcollin6

arsenalfc89 said:


> I think their target audience is plug and play and they may be using this as a test to see what the market wants, to maybe see if giving less options, and focusing on contrast will still sell well.


I talked with a home theater installed a couple of weeks ago to ask them a price for calibration of a projector. He told me that they no longer offer calibrations as people aren’t willing to pay for them anymore. I wonder if that is happening on a macro level as seen by manufacturers. People just turn on the projector and pick the color setting that they like the best…


----------



## arsenalfc89

mcollin6 said:


> I talked with a home theater installed a couple of weeks ago to ask them a price for calibration of a projector. He told me that they no longer offer calibrations as people aren’t willing to pay for them anymore. I wonder if that is happening on a macro level as seen by manufacturers. People just turn on the projector and pick the color setting that they like the best…


People going after calibration I suspect is a very small market. Most people I'm in contact with outside of AVSFORUM could care less about accurate picture, this is why Samsung is the biggest TV manufacturer. They understand, provide a bright vibrant image and it will sell. As UST become more popular it may change because more so than TV they require calibration for the best or decent experience. It's funny when I calibrated my projector, my wife couldn't care less even tho it was obvious to me. Using a 3D LUT was the only thing that actually made my wife care because of how drastic it changes the image. Not many go that route so if customers are saying the default image is good enough then why bother with extensive calibration settings?


----------



## PixelPusher15

arsenalfc89 said:


> could care less


Couldn’t*


----------



## arsenalfc89

PixelPusher15 said:


> Couldn’t*


Lol good looking out.


----------



## Brajesh

Surprised we don't already have PJC and other publications' reviews, given the projector has already released.


----------



## mcollin6

arsenalfc89 said:


> As UST become more popular it may change because more so than TV they require calibration for the best or decent experience.


I was just looking at those LS800 pictures and thinking that some of the color modes looked really good for an uncalibrated UST. I actually think it’ll go the other way. If you have a Bright Room, Dark Room, Filmmaker, Game, and HDR/WCG modes, I think that most people will be really happy and not bother with a calibration. They will take the same experience from their TV and apply it to the Laser TV that they just bought.


----------



## arsenalfc89

mcollin6 said:


> I was just looking at those LS800 pictures and thinking that some of the color modes looked really good for an uncalibrated UST. I actually think it’ll go the other way. If you have a Bright Room, Dark Room, Filmmaker, Game, and HDR/WCG modes, I think that most people will be really happy and not bother with a calibration. They will take the same experience from their TV and apply it to the Laser TV that they just bought.


Actually that's a good point in the TV experience will end up being the same for the projector.


----------



## Winters93

I'm very interested in the LS800, just wondering if I should buy a CLR screen or Fresnel screen with it?

Is a CLR screen bright enough?


----------



## Gwreck

Winters93 said:


> I'm very interested in the LS800, just wondering if I should buy a CLR screen or Fresnel screen with it?
> 
> Is a CLR screen bright enough?
> 
> View attachment 3346365


I have the ls500 and the Epson silver flex is heavily discounted when bought with the projector and that screen is bright enough with the ls500 for day and night. The ls800 should be about the same.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Just received the L 800. Initial impressions: Very impressed. Even though no on board CMS controls, the overall color accuracy looks VERY GOOD....IT'S a similar look ( color wise ) to the the Epson 5050, which I also have.
It's also a very clear and sharp image....in ALL FOUR CORNERS, definitely better than the Formovie T1 Global I had.
I also have several other long throw DLP units in house ( XGIMI PRO 4K, DANGBEI 4K), and the Sharpness of the 800 matches or exceeds both of the DLP units. That's not an easy task for a THREE CHIP DISPLAY to do.

I have had many projectors over the past 40 years, however only 2 other UST projectors before the 800 ( FORMOVIE GLOBAL, BOWMAKER). THE 800 was much easier to set up then the other two . The only issue I currently am having is some over scan outside the projected image, that is bleeding on to the Black Boarder.
Brian, in his introductory video mentions something called "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE", that will remove this light bleed. This would be similar, if not identical, to what EPSON calls "BLANKING" on their normal long throw projectors.
Unfortunately I can't find this setting anywhere in the menus.
If someone can point me to this setting it would be greatly appreciated. 🙂
Overall, very impressed with this so far. It even upscales 2k images to 4k very well
(see attached YOUTUBE TV pictures that are
























2k content).
Cheers.....


----------



## JDthird

MRJazzz, any suggestions for settings? I just got mine today, and compared to my little Optoma UHD60 I'm not impressed so far with either my media center output nor gaming with the PS5 or Xbox Series X. I'm sure that part of my letdown is the standard Elite screen I'm using rather than an ALR one or something specific for a UST projector, but it seems there's more than that here making this look so sad in comparison. My first Epson projector so I'm kind of bouncing around to see if I can improve how it looks.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> MRJazzz, any suggestions for settings? I just got mine today, and compared to my little Optoma UHD60 I'm not impressed so far with either my media center output nor gaming with the PS5 or Xbox Series X. I'm sure that part of my letdown is the standard Elite screen I'm using rather than an ALR one or something specific for a UST projector, but it seems there's more than that here making this look so sad in comparison. My first Epson projector so I'm kind of bouncing around to see if I can improve how it looks.


Haven't really played around with alot of different settings yet, however you might try bumping up the lazer brightness. Out of the box it's set somewhat low...around 50% or so. That could be part of what your reacting to.
Also try bumping up the contrast and color saturation a few notches .
I also don't use an ALR SCREEN...I have reasonably good light control and don't see the real value of ALR screens, unless you really do most of your watching during the day without any reasonable light control/ mitigation capabilities. 
Why give up 50% of your light output (most ALR screens are around .6 negative gain 🤨) when you don't have to?...
Anyway if your Optima is " Doing It For You", 
just return the L800 and enjoy the savings. 
Mine isn't going anywhere. 🙂


----------



## Gwreck

I hooked up the ls800 tonight and I’m going to have to find a better configuration for where to put it on my stand due to the very short throw ratio. But despite my minimal and partially adequate set up it is extremely obvious how much better this thing is than the ls500. Clarity, colors, tone mapping and black levels are making me very happy. It looks better than the 500 in so many ways straight out of the box. Now I haven’t seen to many other UST projectors but given how bright the Epson is compared to many other I think they have a winner. BTW I’m an oled snob and have 4 oleds for all my other TV’s.


----------



## PixelPusher15

I _should_ be receiving an LS800 as my first projector I’ll be officially reviewing 🎉.

If there’s anything specific people would like me to look at or measure, I’ll do my best to see what I can gather up.


----------



## cec68

To the owners. What are the different picture modes on the LS 800?


----------



## mirzank

MRJAZZZ said:


> Just received the L 800. Initial impressions: Very impressed. Even though no on board CMS controls, the overall color accuracy looks VERY GOOD....IT'S a similar look ( color wise ) to the the Epson 5050, which I also have.
> It's also a very clear and sharp image....in ALL FOUR CORNERS, definitely better than the Formovie T1 Global I had.
> I also have several other long throw DLP units in house ( XGIMI PRO 4K, DANGBEI 4K), and the Sharpness of the 800 matches or exceeds both of the DLP units. That's not an easy task for a THREE CHIP DISPLAY to do.
> 
> I have had many projectors over the past 40 years, however only 2 other UST projectors before the 800 ( FORMOVIE GLOBAL, BOWMAKER). THE 800 was much easier to set up then the other two . The only issue I currently am having is some over scan outside the projected image, that is bleeding on to the Black Boarder.
> Brian, in his introductory video mentions something called "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE", that will remove this light bleed. This would be similar, if not identical, to what EPSON calls "BLANKING" on their normal long throw projectors.
> Unfortunately I can't find this setting anywhere in the menus.
> If someone can point me to this setting it would be greatly appreciated. 🙂
> Overall, very impressed with this so far. It even upscales 2k images to 4k very well
> (see attached YOUTUBE TV pictures that are
> View attachment 3346433
> 
> View attachment 3346434
> 
> View attachment 3346432
> 
> 2k content).
> Cheers.....


You said you had the formovie theatre before this (the global t1)? How does it compare ? 
I have the formovie as well but interested in this for the shorter throw. 

One thing I’m not clear on: does this have earc or not ? If no earc then I guess it would be able to be connected to a sonos arc (you could still use arc but you then don’t get the full sound)


----------



## Pulse1

It doesn't have eARC, but it may get updated via firmware in the future if the HDMI port is capable?


----------



## Pulse1

cec68 said:


> To the owners. What are the different picture modes on the LS 800?


The user manual can be downloaded from the Epson website and that will give you more helpful information for you including the Pictures modes.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

If anyone knows how to find the "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE" that Brian mentioned in his YouTube video, please post. I have some light bleed on the black Boarder of my screen and would like to get rid of it.
Find attached a few more pictures taken this evening.


----------



## mirzank

Pulse1 said:


> It doesn't have eARC, but it may get updated via firmware in the future if the HDMI port is capable?


Doubt that’s a firmware thing. If the hdmi port is hdmi 2.1 and capable they would have labelled it as such. If it’s not earc then hardware probably isn’t capable. 
Really love this projector and totally up for replacing my formovie but that earc port is a tricky decision.


----------



## Pulse1

mirzank said:


> Doubt that’s a firmware thing. If the hdmi port is hdmi 2.1 and capable they would have labelled it as such. If it’s not earc then hardware probably isn’t capable.
> Really love this projector and totally up for replacing my formovie but that earc port is a tricky decision.


The HDMI port doesn't have to be a 2.1 port for eARC.


----------



## mirzank

Pulse1 said:


> The HDMI port doesn't have to be a 2.1 port for eARC.


Ah okay I didn’t know that. But in that case it’s even more confusing why they wouldn’t just have earc I believe it needs hdmi 2.0b or something to work. I’m sure that hardware exists in the projector.


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> Brian, in his introductory video mentions something called "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE", that will remove this light bleed. This would be similar, if not identical, to what EPSON calls "BLANKING" on their normal long throw projectors.
> Unfortunately I can't find this setting anywhere in the menus.
> If someone can point me to this setting it would be greatly appreciated. 🙂


It’s not clear. I thought I found it in the manual but realized I was looking at the 500, not the 800.

It might be in the Flexible Picture option, which seems only accessible from the remote…


----------



## mcollin6

It can be a bit painful to find th manual for this projector. Had to go to the support area and look it up. 

Direct link below. Suggest the HTML as its searchable.






SPT_V11HA90120 | Epson LS800B | LS Series | Projectors | Support | Epson US







epson.com


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> I also don't use an ALR SCREEN...I have reasonably good light control and don't see the real value of ALR screens, unless you really do most of your watching during the day without any reasonable light control/ mitigation capabilities.
> Why give up 50% of your light output (most ALR screens are around .6 negative gain 🤨) when you don't have to?...


Would you mind sharing what screen material you have (and gain) along with the screen size?

Also, a couple pictures with the shades open would be interesting as well. I’d like to see how washed out it looks without an ALR screen. My room has enough ambient light that you can read a book, so it might be too much for a non-ALR screen. 

Lastly, if you have a light meter app on your phone, could you take a max ambient light reading with shades open and closed? (Reading at the screen, with the phone held against it in the center) I have been asking for ambient light readings from reviewers for a long time to compare with my home, but I can never seem to get anyone to provide some.

Thanks!


----------



## arsenalfc89

PixelPusher15 said:


> I _should_ be receiving an LS800 as my first projector I’ll be officially reviewing 🎉.
> 
> If there’s anything specific people would like me to look at or measure, I’ll do my best to see what I can gather up.


The usual contrast ratio, gamut, fan noise, and light output in different modes.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

mcollin6 said:


> Would you mind sharing what screen material you have (and gain) along with the screen size?
> 
> Also, a couple pictures with the shades open would be interesting as well. I’d like to see how washed out it looks without an ALR screen. My room has enough ambient light that you can read a book, so it might be too much for a non-ALR screen.
> 
> Lastly, if you have a light meter app on your phone, could you take a max ambient light reading with shades open and closed? (Reading at the screen, with the phone held against it in the center) I have been asking for ambient light readings from reviewers for a long time to compare with my home, but I can never seem to get anyone to provide some.
> 
> Thanks!


Will try to get you some pictures with more ambient light coming into the room. 
The screen I am using is a Vividstorm Floor Rising, White Cinema, 1.1 gain, 100 inch. 
Don't know what material it is. I may be going larger with an Elite Floor Rising, 122 inch, also a white screen, 1.2 gain. The Elite appears to be made by Vividstorm, as it looks identical. Even the remotes are identical.


----------



## Dave Harper

PixelPusher15 said:


> I _should_ be receiving an LS800 as my first projector I’ll be officially reviewing .
> 
> If there’s anything specific people would like me to look at or measure, I’ll do my best to see what I can gather up.


That’s awesome! Who are you doing reviews for now?

I’m also putting the finishing touches on my review for projectorscreen.com, so let me know if anyone has anything to add or include. 



mcollin6 said:


> It’s not clear. I thought I found it in the manual but realized I was looking at the 500, not the 800.
> 
> It might be in the Flexible Picture option, which seems only accessible from the remote…
> 
> View attachment 3346525


I think the option in the bottom right if your manual page is the one to try. It fuzzes the four edges of the image which could help with any light bleed or halos maybe. 

I don’t recall seeing any blanking options though, other than being able to blank the entire screen.


----------



## PixelPusher15

Dave Harper said:


> That’s awesome! Who are you doing reviews for now?


HTR


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> Will try to get you some pictures with more ambient light coming into the room.
> The screen I am using is a Vividstorm Floor Rising, White Cinema, 1.1 gain, 100 inch.
> Don't know what material it is. I may be going larger with an Elite Floor Rising, 122 inch, also a white screen, 1.2 gain. The Elite appears to be made by Vividstorm, as it looks identical. Even the remotes are identical.


I was looking at SCREENPRO who has a website called samsav.com. I think that they are the manufacturer for VIVIDSTORM as they have the same floor rising models, and use the vivid storm manuals on their website. They also offer a higher gain 0.8 T-prism material in sizes up to 150”. I have a query into the for a 135” floor rising model. Haven’t heard back yet…

Also, I went to the Vividstorm page and it looks like their prices are significantly lower than elsewhere, but I’m not sure if there are shipping /import taxes missing… 









Self-Rising ALR Screen - AD


ALR UST Projector Screen for Wemax, Xiaomi, Vava, LG, Epson, SAMSUNG, Sony...4K Laser projector home theatre system



www.samsav.com


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> I’m also putting the finishing touches on my review…


If you are doing bright room evaluations and can take some ambient light measurements, I‘d really appreciate it.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

mcollin6 said:


> It’s not clear. I thought I found it in the manual but realized I was looking at the 500, not the 800.
> 
> It might be in the Flexible Picture option, which seems only accessible from the remote…
> 
> View attachment 3346525


Thanks for the feedback. Still not sure how one would use these set of adjustments to control light bleed on the boarders of the screen.
I did try using the auto features that comes with the installed Epson Smart App. It did change the image to a perfect 16:9 Aspect ratio image, however it shrunk that image so that it left a 1 inch boarder around it, within the actual screen itself. In other words instead of a perfectly framed 100 inch image, on my 100 inch screen, I ended up with a 98 inch image.
Perhaps that image ( the 98 inch one) could be stretched via the flex options to than fill the 100 inch screen, and that would eliminate the light bleed 🤔....
If anyone can figure this out, please post.
Thanks...


----------



## Dave Harper

PixelPusher15 said:


> HTR


Very cool, congrats!



mcollin6 said:


> If you are doing bright room evaluations and can take some ambient light measurements, I‘d really appreciate it.


PM me with what you’re thinking, but it has to be quick. Not sure I can squeeze it in, depending on what you’re asking for.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

A couple of quick pictures with some ambient light....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

FYI, I also compared the same video feed on one of my other smaller displays (Sony 900H, 85 inch, a decent mid tier Sony display) and the Epson L800 looks substantially better...( more 
vibrant, clearer, actually better focus...the only area the Sony looks a little better is the Black levels). 
My reference display is a Samsung 98 inch Micro LED....The Epson falls short of that, however when my new 122 inch screen arrives, I am sure the Epson will look very nice, and a 122 inch , ( with all else being somewhat equal) will trump even a stunning 98 inch Micro LED . We shall see.....


----------



## robl2

MRJAZZZ said:


> IT'S a similar look ( color wise ) to the the Epson 5050, which I also have.


I would be coming from a 5050UB as well. Can you talk more specifically how it compares to that projector for you? Black level, sharpness / resolution & brightness etc.?

Thanks so much!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

robl2 said:


> I would be coming from a 5050UB as well. Can you talk more specifically how it compares to that projector for you? Black level, sharpness / resolution & brightness etc.?
> 
> Thanks so much!


Definitely brighter.....much in fact. I haven't had a chance to really dive into the various settings, Color temperature, contrast, color mode , etc. so hard to say regarding black levels, however I feel the 5050 will definitely be superior there, however that's about the only area.
The L800 is definitely clearer, sharper. As I posted yesterday, the L800 is beyond my expectations in the area of Focus and image sharpness. It actually matches or exceeds two other 1 chip 4k DLP projectors I also am currently using (XGIMI PRO 4K, DANGBEI 4K).
This is very hard for any 3 CHIP DISPLAY to do, especially one at this somewhat modest price point. 
The resolution also appears to be better than the 5050. IF your into " PIXEL Peeping", the 800 definitely has the resolution and sharpness to see them, when you are standing next to the screen.....and Zero issues regarding any possible " Screen Door" effect 😉.... 
And no DLP RAINBOWS.....


----------



## chiefpeon

Quick update everyone - I'm taking my SECOND unit back to Best Buy. Both had stuck pixels. Anyone else having issues like this? Maybe our friends in retail can let us know if these units are being returned due to issues.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

chiefpeon said:


> Quick update everyone - I'm taking my SECOND unit back to Best Buy. Both had stuck pixels. Anyone else having issues like this? Maybe our friends in retail can let us know if these units are being returned due to issues.


No stuck pixels on mine....


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Also, I went to the Vividstorm page and it looks like their prices are significantly lower than elsewhere, but I’m not sure if there are shipping /import taxes missing…


You won’t see shipping & tariffs until you are almost done with checkout. Should be comparable to “free shipping” total prices elsewhere that ship from within the USA


----------



## ProjectionHead

PixelPusher15 said:


> I _should_ be receiving an LS800 as my first projector I’ll be officially reviewing 🎉.
> 
> If there’s anything specific people would like me to look at or measure, I’ll do my best to see what I can gather up.


Looking forward to reading your inaugural “professional” review; congrats!


----------



## Leatherass

ProjectionHead said:


> You won’t see shipping & tariffs until you are almost done with checkout. Should be comparable to “free shipping” total prices elsewhere that ship from within the USA


$200 plus taxes cheaper for me going direct through Vividstorm. Pumped to get this screen and my first foray into UST throw for the office/den.


----------



## PixelPusher15

ProjectionHead said:


> Looking forward to reading your inaugural “professional” review; congrats!


Oh boy, the pressure!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Some pics from today, mostly 2K upscaled to 4k. Epson upscaling works very well on the 800.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Leatherass said:


> $200 plus taxes cheaper for me going direct through Vividstorm. Pumped to get this screen and my first foray into UST throw for the office/den.


That shouldn’t be so… dang Vividstorm!
We’ll always beat their direct price and will have the team adjust on the website accordingly.

odd, I just checked and they were $18 less than us for the 120” and they ship from China vs us from the USA.

Mind if I DM you a couple questions?


----------



## swirvin704

MRJAZZZ said:


> View attachment 3346500
> 
> View attachment 3346499
> 
> View attachment 3346501
> 
> View attachment 3346496
> 
> View attachment 3346495
> 
> View attachment 3346497
> 
> View attachment 3346498
> 
> View attachment 3346494
> 
> If anyone knows how to find the "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE" that Brian mentioned in his YouTube video, please post. I have some light bleed on the black Boarder of my screen and would like to get rid of it.
> Find attached a few more pictures taken this evening.





MRJAZZZ said:


> Some pics from today, mostly 2K upscaled to 4k. Epson upscaling works very well on the 800.
> View attachment 3346839
> 
> View attachment 3346847
> 
> View attachment 3346848
> 
> View attachment 3346843
> 
> View attachment 3346840
> 
> View attachment 3346846
> 
> View attachment 3346845
> 
> View attachment 3346844
> 
> View attachment 3346842
> 
> View attachment 3346841


Just curious which picture setting are you using and how much do you have brightness turned up? All of my images were at the preset brightness.


----------



## aerodynamics

No CMS is a real bummer. This is like the Chinese T1 all over again. I could live without the ethernet port but jeez, even the cheapest, most obscure TV has a CMS. I’ll have to jump onboard with the others and question whoever is making these decisions at Epson.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

aerodynamics said:


> No CMS is a real bummer. This is like the Chinese T1 all over again. I could live without the ethernet port but jeez, even the cheapest, most obscure TV has a CMS. I’ll have to jump onboard with the others and question whoever is making these decisions at Epson.


Each to his own....yes having a CMS would of course been a plus...a big plus, if your really into calibration and pushing to max out your picture....Having said that , I have Zero issues with the colors I am seeing from the L800....
No the color gamut can't match a Tri Lazer, but I don't miss the Formovie Global T1 (that I owned), that is a 3 Lazer unit. 
The Epson's video processing (upscaling , etc) is so good and the brightness pop can't be denied....think of this like a Samsung Flat Screen...alot of people feel the Samsung's are totally overblown in it's color delivery....and yes, it probably is.....but....but some people (probably alot) love it....
As do I....Love my primary reference, the 98 inch Samsung Micro LED....


----------



## ProjectionHead

PixelPusher15 said:


> Oh boy, the pressure!
> View attachment 3346833


Lol, be prepared for a whole-nother level of criticism…. Tough crowd!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

swirvin704 said:


> Just curious which picture setting are you using and how much do you have brightness turned up? All of my images were at the preset brightness.


Approximately 75% on Lazer Brightness, and Dynamic color mode. Haven't played around to much with the other Color modes....yet...probably Cinema, or Natural will yield more " Cinematic " like images, but Dynamic and Vivid don't "blow out" the colors like many projectors that use these type of settings to achieve their claimed Lumen output.


----------



## Leatherass

ProjectionHead said:


> That shouldn’t be so… dang Vividstorm!
> We’ll always beat their direct price and will have the team adjust on the website accordingly.
> 
> odd, I just checked and they were $18 less than us for the 120” and they ship from China vs us from the USA.
> 
> Mind if I DM you a couple questions?


Not at all. Mine was the 100" for those wondering.


----------



## LondonBenji

aerodynamics said:


> No CMS is a real bummer. This is like the Chinese T1 all over again. I could live without the ethernet port but jeez, even the cheapest, most obscure TV has a CMS. I’ll have to jump onboard with the others and question whoever is making these decisions at Epson.


Man, Epson really phoned this one in didn't they.... Every time I come back to this thread hoping for some positive updates, it's just more things about how this projector has been scuppered.


----------



## Gwreck

MRJAZZZ said:


> Each to his own....yes having a CMS would of course been a plus...a big plus, if your really into calibration and pushing to max out your picture....Having said that , I have Zero issues with the colors I am seeing from the L800....
> No the color gamut can't match a Tri Lazer, but I don't miss the Formovie Global T1 (that I owned), that is a 3 Lazer unit.
> The Epson's video processing (upscaling , etc) is so good and the brightness pop can't be denied....think of this like a Samsung Flat Screen...alot of people feel the Samsung's are totally overblown in it's color delivery....and yes, it probably is.....but....but some people (probably alot) love it....
> As do I....Love my primary reference, the 98 inch Samsung Micro LED....


I agree, as the ls500 had full CMS but even with full professional calibration will never look as good as the ls800 straight from the box. If someone wants and Epson with CMS I will sell them my ls500 for cheap. If Epson had to cut some corners to build the ls800 I think they made the right choices as the picture is fantastic.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

As previously posted on this thread I don't have much experience with UST projectors, but of the three that I have used/owned (BOWMAKER, Formovie T1 Global, and now the Epson LS800) this is easily the best. 
CLASS leading contrast (although the Formovie is close). Class leading Lumens, S
















uperb video processing. Much clearer/ sharper ( all four corners).
It gives up a little in Color Gamut but the added brightness " POP " easily makes up for this.
My Epson 5050 just got sold today. It's also an excellent overall projector, however I much prefer this new UST from Epson....
Anyway a few more pictures, this time using the Cinema color preset.


----------



## Sonny Red

MRJAZZZ said:


> As previously posted on this thread I don't have much experience with UST projectors, but of the three that I have used/owned (BOWMAKER, Formovie T1 Global, and now the Epson LS800) this is easily the best.
> CLASS leading contrast (although the Formovie is close). Class leading Lumens, S
> View attachment 3346915
> 
> View attachment 3346916
> 
> uperb video processing. Much clearer/ sharper ( all four corners).
> It gives up a little in Color Gamut but the added brightness " POP " easily makes up for this.
> My Epson 5050 just got sold today. It's also an excellent overall projector, however I much prefer this new UST from Epson....
> Anyway a few more pictures, this time using the Cinema color preset.


The brightness and colors seems to be great but the black seems to bey grey, aren’t they ? (Compared to the Formovie)


----------



## Gwreck

Sonny Red said:


> The brightness and colors seems to be great but the black seems to bey grey, aren’t they ? (Compared to the Formovie)


I have not seen the Formovie but the ls800 blacks seem to have no issues. The ls500 definitely only has grey instead of black. I had a Formovie on order to replace my ls500 due to the ls500 having awful Black levels. I took a chance and ordered an ls800 while waiting for the Formovie, anyway I am pleased enough with the ls800 that I canceled the Formovie order.


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> PM me with what you’re thinking, but it has to be quick. Not sure I can squeeze it in, depending on what you’re asking for.


Message sent


----------



## mcollin6

Sonny Red said:


> The brightness and colors seems to be great but the black seems to bey grey, aren’t they ? (Compared to the Formovie)


What color mode are you using? From what I have read, Dynamic provides the best contrast. Curious if you see any difference when moving to different settings.


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> Some pics from today, mostly 2K upscaled to 4k. Epson upscaling works very well on the 8
> View attachment 3346847


 Pictures that good with that amount of ambient light are making me rethink getting an ALR screen!


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> You won’t see shipping & tariffs until you are almost done with checkout. Should be comparable to “free shipping” total prices elsewhere that ship from within the USA


Brian, does projectorscreen.com sell any floor rising ALR screens bigger than the vividstorm 120”? I know that UST ALR material is just starting to come out in sizes larger than 120”, and it seems like a perfect fit for a projector that can go up to 150”.

I have only found a couple of Chinese companies who have that capability, but I am hoping you have better knowledge than I do.


----------



## 8KCRT

I'm shopping for an "easy" plug-n-play UST with NO CALIBRATION necessary meaning I'm not going to spend more than 60 minutes playing with picture modes/settings. I originally narrowed it down to the recent UST Shootout finalists ForMovie, LG and Hisense PX1PRO. My max budget is the LG HU915 but if this LS800 is just as good for less, why not? What are everyone's thoughts about the current "state of the art" UST? is it the LS800?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Sonny Red said:


> The brightness and colors seems to be great but the black seems to bey grey, aren’t they ? (Compared to the Formovie)


They are very similar in contrast level, however the L800 is substantially brighter so depending on where you are on the brightness level of the Lazer, the blacks can appear to be somewhat more elevated , especially noticeable in black bars on 1:85 and 2:35 material. This isn't really that obvious in the actual content displayed in the actual picture on the screen. 
Lowering brightness to around 50% along with judicious use of the brightness n contrast sliders pretty much eliminate this issue (I don't find it an issue, but I know many video enthusiasts go "nuts" on how " Black" the black bars look....this is one area that a ALR screen might improve this area ( visible black bars) however at the expense of overall light output. 

The person that came over yesterday to purchase my Epson 5050, commented on the L800 
"Wow...this thing looks exactly like a giant flat screen Display...."
That's the way I would also describe it. You get that big WOW factor due to punch from the color and brightness it has along with Extremely sharp, well focused images , along with zero artifacts in the image due to the excellent video processing.
The Formovie is an Excellent overall projector, however I prefer the L800....by alot.....YMMV


----------



## MRJAZZZ

*By the way, for those who might be interested, my reference display in my home is a 98 inch SAMSUNG NEO QLED.
It definitely is the best video display that's ever been in my home in the past 30 + years.
Think OLED BLACK'S with insane brightness levels ( close to 2000 Nits ) and extreme color pop and detail.
This display is in a different room in my home that is extremly challanging due to the amount of light coming in from numerous sources , including an 8 foot Skylight right above it. 
So a Led driven flat screen is the only type of display that will work in this environment. 

Anyway, when ever I make a comment regarding the quality of a video display, this is what my reference is.

The Epson L800 isn't as good as the Samsung 98 inch.....however it provides a very similar type of impact and immersion into what ever one is viewing. 
Cheers....















*


----------



## Winters93

What should the pictures of the Samsung QLed tell us?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Winters93 said:


> What should the pictures of the Samsung QLed tell us?


Use your imagination......
Cheers....


----------



## slickrock

MRJAZZZ said:


> *By the way, for those who might be interested, my reference display in my home is a 98 inch SAMSUNG NEO QLED.
> It definitely is the best video display that's ever been in my home in the past 30 + years.
> Think OLED BLACK'S with insane brightness levels ( close to 2000 Nits ) and extreme color pop and detail.
> This display is in a different room in my home that is extremly challanging due to the amount of light coming in from numerous sources , including an 8 foot Skylight right above it.
> So a Led driven flat screen is the only type of display that will work in this environment.
> 
> Anyway, when ever I make a comment regarding the quality of a video display, this is what my reference is.
> 
> The Epson L800 isn't as good as the Samsung 98 inch.....however it provides a very similar type of impact and immersion into what ever one is viewing.
> Cheers....
> View attachment 3347082
> 
> View attachment 3347081
> *


The elephant in the room is not TV. It's the those speakers.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

slickrock said:


> The elephant in the room is not TV. It's the those speakers.


I own QUINTESSENCE ACOUSTICS 
The speakers in that picture are my flagship offering. .The QLS. 
www.quintessenceacoustics.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

8KCRT said:


> I'm shopping for an "easy" plug-n-play UST with NO CALIBRATION necessary meaning I'm not going to spend more than 60 minutes playing with picture modes/settings. I originally narrowed it down to the recent UST Shootout finalists ForMovie, LG and Hisense PX1PRO. My max budget is the LG HU915 but if this LS800 is just as good for less, why not? What are everyone's thoughts about the current "state of the art" UST? is it the LS800?


If you want the extra brightness, lower latency and no chance for rainbows, the LS800 is a good choice. Otherwise, I'd say the Formovie, which in my brief head to head, I thought was better than the Epson (our shootout coming out soon between the two)


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Brian, does projectorscreen.com sell any floor rising ALR screens bigger than the vividstorm 120”? I know that UST ALR material is just starting to come out in sizes larger than 120”, and it seems like a perfect fit for a projector that can go up to 150”.
> 
> I have only found a couple of Chinese companies who have that capability, but I am hoping you have better knowledge than I do.


There are no lenticular 150" motorized screens; the first fixed frame just came out. If you are seeing a floor rising 150" ALR for UST, I am not sure what surface it is using; perhaps the PET Grid, which IMHO was horrible


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> There are no lenticular 150" motorized screens; the first fixed frame just came out. If you are seeing a floor rising 150" ALR for UST, I am not sure what surface it is using; perhaps the PET Grid, which IMHO was horrible


Thanks Brian.

This is what I found. I think it’s partially lenticular based on the material description - the tips are cut off flat which may make it easier to manufacture. It‘s probably not as good for ALR as the lenticular, but it seems like it’s better than PET.






The material got a good review from Joelster, but I’m still not sure how it measures up to other materials.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Thanks Brian.
> 
> This is what I found. I think it’s partially lenticular based on the material description - the tips are cut off flat which may make it easier to manufacture. It‘s probably not as good for ALR as the lenticular, but it seems like it’s better than PET.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The material got a good review from Joelster, but I’m still not sure how it measures up to other materials.


They sent us a T-Prism fixed frame before; we decided to not to carry it. Surface has all sort of uniformity issues and “splotches” on it. It’s only reason to exist IMHO is that is can be made at larger sizes than 120”.
Not sure if it’s the same material used on the rising screen.


----------



## Odysea

Speaking of 150 inch screens, does the LS800 have focus issues or degradation at 150 inches? I picked the formovie particularly because it touted 150 inch screen sizes.

If LS800 is crystal clear at 150 inches, that could be another major selling point and another reason to get it over the theater.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Odysea said:


> Speaking of 150 inch screens, does the LS800 have focus issues or degradation at 150 inches? I picked the formovie particularly because it touted 150 inch screen sizes.
> 
> If LS800 is crystal clear at 150 inches, that could be another major selling point and another reason to get it over the theater.


Can't speak to how well the LS800 works on a 150, but on a 100 inch it is indeed Crystal Clear....


----------



## Sonny Red

I have a Formovie Theater which is great but this Epson LS800 is very tempting for me with its 4000 lumens.

I have bought a fully automated cabinet at vividstorm : Motorized UST Laser TV Cabinet for VIVIDSTORM Floor Rising Projector Screens - VIVIDSTORM AUSTRALIA & NZ | Official Site

I haven't received the cabinet yet but it is mentioned that the cabinet is suitable for any UST laser projectors with a throw ratio between 0.17 and 0.25.

The Formovie is 0.23 but concerning the Epson I don't know what it means that the throw ratio is in the range 0.16 and 0.40.

What does it means ? There is a zoom feature ? (optical, digital?)

0.16 is very close to the minimum 0.17 required by the cabinet.

What do you think ?


----------



## leo0111127

Odysea said:


> Speaking of 150 inch screens, does the LS800 have focus issues or degradation at 150 inches? I picked the formovie particularly because it touted 150 inch screen sizes.
> 
> If LS800 is crystal clear at 150 inches, that could be another major selling point and another reason to get it over the theater.


Compare the two models' lens, you can find the LS800 gets bigger lens(Smaller F number and bigger lens aperture) and should be better sharpness performance than Formmovie which is complained by users about the sharpness performance in over 100 inch screen.


----------



## leo0111127

Sonny Red said:


> I have a Formovie Theater which is great but this Epson LS800 is very tempting for me with its 4000 lumens.
> 
> I have bought a fully automated cabinet at vividstorm : Motorized UST Laser TV Cabinet for VIVIDSTORM Floor Rising Projector Screens - VIVIDSTORM AUSTRALIA & NZ | Official Site
> 
> I haven't received the cabinet yet but it is mentioned that the cabinet is suitable for any UST laser projectors with a throw ratio between 0.17 and 0.25.
> 
> The Formovie is 0.23 but concerning the Epson I don't know what it means that the throw ration is in the range 0.16 and 0.40.
> 
> What does it means ? There is a zoom feature ? (optical, digital?)
> 
> 0.16 is very close to the minimum 0.17 required by the cabinet.
> 
> What do you think ?


Extra optic zoom feature, zoom wide can gets 0.16 and zoom tele can gets 0.4 throw ratio, but the brightness is 4000 ISO lumen only 3200 ansi lumen.


----------



## Odysea

leo0111127 said:


> Compare the two models' lens, you can find the LS800 gets bigger lens(Smaller F number and bigger lens aperture) and should be better sharpness performance than Formmovie which is complained by users about the sharpness performance in over 100 inch screen.


Hmm, if it gets to me I may need to take a loss and switch over. We will give it a few months though.


----------



## Sonny Red

leo0111127 said:


> Extra optic zoom feature, zoom wide can gets 0.16 and zoom tele can gets 0.4 throw ratio, but the brightness is 4000 ISO lumen only 3200 ansi lumen.


Apparently the zoom feature is digital and not optical. Will it make pictures looks bad if I use it to change the throw ratio from 0.16 to 0.17 ?


----------



## noonsa

I did my own quick and dirty head-to-head comparison of the Formovie Theater and Epson LS800 last night. While very close, my wife and I both preferred the image from the Formovie Theater. Although the Epson does have a shorter throw which would let me put it closer to the wall, I decided this wasn't worth the tradeoffs.

I came into the comparison wanting to keep the Epson. My wife and I actually have roots in Nagano, Japan, where Epson was founded and is HQed. We know people working there and drive by their offices all the time when we are visiting over there. So Epson is like a hometown company for us.

But the image qualities are both good and I bet a lot of it is subjective. Here are a few photos I took. the Formovie Theater has a slight red tinge, which I read is normal for taking a picture of a laser projector. I used all default settings. Natural on the Epson and Movie on the FT. Both using the onboard Youtube app and wifi.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

The image on the left appears to be more neutral in it's presentation....the one on the right has a red bias ( probably the Formovie).
Both are excellent, overall....
I don't particularly care for the "Natural" preset on the Epson...
Dynamic and Movie look Much better....to me.
Thanks for the pics....


----------



## arsenalfc89

MRJAZZZ said:


> The image on the left appears to be more neutral in it's presentation....the one on the right has a red bias ( probably the Formovie).
> Both are excellent, overall....
> I don't particularly care for the "Natural" preset on the Epson...
> Dynamic and Movie look Much better....to me.
> Thanks for the pics....


I agree. Dynamic is the way to go.


----------



## Pulse1

On Epson Projectors usually Natural picture mode is the closest for an accurate HD Rec709 image. As for HDR BT2020 then yes the other picture modes are probably the way to go.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

The " Natural " preset on the L800 looks dead, and "boring" , compared to the DYNAMIC and MOVIE presets...
Also if using the settings out of the box, the Lazer Brightness 🌞 is dialed down considerably ( around 50%) on the 800.
The Epson really starts to "shine", when the Lazer level is set to around 75%, and in Dynamic mode for day time viewing, and Movie preset for evening viewing....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

And no DLP RAINBOWS. ( on the 3 chip L800)...I am very susceptible to them....The Formovie Tri Lazer that I had was actually pretty good in this regard, however I still would see them from time to time....


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> The image on the left appears to be more neutral in it's presentation....the one on the right has a red bias ( probably the Formovie).
> Both are excellent, overall....
> I don't particularly care for the "Natural" preset on the Epson...
> Dynamic and Movie look Much better....to me.
> Thanks for the pics....





arsenalfc89 said:


> I agree. Dynamic is the way to go.





MRJAZZZ said:


> The " Natural " preset on the L800 looks dead, and "boring" , compared to the DYNAMIC and MOVIE presets...
> Also if using the settings out of the box, the Lazer Brightness  is dialed down considerably ( around 50%) on the 800.
> The Epson really starts to "shine", when the Lazer level is set to around 75%, and in Dynamic mode for day time viewing, and Movie preset for evening viewing....


Ditto. 



Pulse1 said:


> On Epson Projectors usually Natural picture mode is the closest for an accurate HD Rec709 image. As for HDR BT2020 then yes the other picture modes are probably the way to go.


Not in this instance and taking into account the limited CMS, gamma and grayscale controls. 

Dynamic is easily the best with both types of signals. You need to mess with Wall color and Color Temp settings to get closest to D65. Use a midrange gray patch of like 50-70% gray to set it though for the best most balanced signal across the range. This should make the grays above 70 a little bluer but it’s worth the trade off here due to the limited controls and making your peak whites bluer isn’t such a bad thing actually.


----------



## Pulse1

Dave Harper said:


> Ditto.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in this instance and taking into account the limited CMS, gamma and grayscale controls.
> 
> Dynamic is easily the best with both types of signals. You need to mess with Wall color and Color Temp settings to get closest to D65. Use a midrange gray patch of like 50-70% gray to set it though for the best most balanced signal across the range. This should make the grays above 70 a little bluer but it’s worth the trade off here due to the limited controls and making your peak whites bluer isn’t such a bad thing actually.


Good to know Dave Thanks.


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> Use a midrange gray patch of like 50-70% gray to set it though for the best most balanced signal across the range. This should make the grays above 70 a little bluer but it’s worth the trade off here due to the limited controls and making your peak whites bluer isn’t such a bad thing actually.


Dave, can you explain that a little more? I’m not quite following. Are you talking about using a wall color setting “gray patch” projecting onto an ALR UST screen, or are you actually talking about projecting onto a wall 50-70% gray?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Dave, 
Have you found a way to eliminate the "Light Bleed" that lights up the black boarders around the screen?
Brian on his introductory video mentions something called "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE"...
I can't find anything in the menu's that will do this. On Epson's long throw projectors they have a BLANKING FEATURE, that would accomplish this.
Thanks


----------



## Sonny Red

noonsa said:


> I did my own quick and dirty head-to-head comparison of the Formovie Theater and Epson LS800 last night. While very close, my wife and I both preferred the image from the Formovie Theater. Although the Epson does have a shorter throw which would let me put it closer to the wall, I decided this wasn't worth the tradeoffs.
> 
> I came into the comparison wanting to keep the Epson. My wife and I actually have roots in Nagano, Japan, where Epson was founded and is HQed. We know people working there and drive by their offices all the time when we are visiting over there. So Epson is like a hometown company for us.
> 
> But the image qualities are both good and I bet a lot of it is subjective. Here are a few photos I took. the Formovie Theater has a slight red tinge, which I read is normal for taking a picture of a laser projector. I used all default settings. Natural on the Epson and Movie on the FT. Both using the onboard Youtube app and wifi.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3347453
> 
> View attachment 3347451
> 
> View attachment 3347452
> 
> View attachment 3347450
> 
> View attachment 3347448
> 
> View attachment 3347454
> 
> View attachment 3347449


Even if you both prefer the image of the Formovie you will keep the Epson ?

I have the Formovie. Great UST. Only complaint is the lack of sharpness on the top right and even more on the top left. Do you notice a difference on the Epson ? Is the sharpness difference is noticeable between the Epson and the Formovie ?

What about picture/motion processing ?

If I decide to go for the Epson one thing that will miss is the Dolby Vision. Don’t you miss it ?

I have an HDFury VRROOM so I guess I could get LLDV


----------



## MRJAZZZ

I believe the party that posted the above picture compares ( Epson L800 v Formovie ) is keeping the Formovie. 
I had the Formovie Global for about 10 days. Really liked it....alot...However had some operational issues ( several dust blobs, and a strange issue with hotspoting on various parts of the projected image, but only after the projector was on for a period of time...and as soon as I would switch inputs, etc they would go away, only to return again, after a period of time . Apparently the latter problem was a one off and unique to my unit, as no one else has mentioned this kind of issue. The dust blobs, though, have been reported by a few other people. )....
Anyway I wouldn't overly worry about dust blobs on the Formovie as they can be easily removed by blowing a fan thru the air inlet. It's an excellent UST, and if color purity is paramount to an individual than it's probably the best UST currently available....at a reasonable price. 

By the way in some of my above posts I mentioned a " MOVIE " preset as one of my two favorite presets on the Epson L800.. I actually meant the CINEMA preset. 
Cheers.....


----------



## Pulse1

mcollin6 said:


> Dave, can you explain that a little more? I’m not quite following. Are you talking about using a wall color setting “gray patch” projecting onto an ALR UST screen, or are you actually talking about projecting onto a wall 50-70% gray?


What Dave is talking about is using a 50-70% Window pattern to set the color balance/grey scale setting within the Picture mode settings menu on the ls800.


----------



## noonsa

Sonny Red said:


> Even if you both prefer the image of the Formovie you will keep the Epson ?
> 
> I have the Formovie. Great UST. Only complaint is the lack of sharpness on the top right and even more on the top left. Do you notice a difference on the Epson ? Is the sharpness difference is noticeable between the Epson and the Formovie ?
> 
> What about picture/motion processing ?
> 
> If I decide to go for the Epson one thing that will miss is the Dolby Vision. Don’t you miss it ?
> 
> I have an HDFury VRROOM so I guess I could get LLDV


No, I'm keeping the FT and returning the Epson. The 500 dollar price difference and clear lack of effort put into the features (no ethernet, Wi-Fi 6, DTS, DV, eARC, etc.) nudged it over into the "losing" column for me. Granted most of these can be worked around with external devices. RBE has never affected me and although I am aware of the corner focus issues pointed out in the other thread, I've literally never noticed it. I'm pretty easy to please. I never adjust beyond the default settings on any TV I've ever owned.

While I didn't take pictures, I did experiment with the different color profile settings and brightness slider on the Epson, and I dunno why, I just liked the FT image better.
My wife, who went into this little test blind, not even knowing which projector was which, just said she liked the right image better. Although most of the time it was like "what's the difference?!"


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Really want to see this thing on an ALR screen before taking the leap.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Dave Harper said:


> Ditto.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in this instance and taking into account the limited CMS, gamma and grayscale controls.
> 
> Dynamic is easily the best with both types of signals. You need to mess with Wall color and Color Temp settings to get closest to D65. Use a midrange gray patch of like 50-70% gray to set it though for the best most balanced signal across the range. This should make the grays above 70 a little bluer but it’s worth the trade off here due to the limited controls and making your peak whites bluer isn’t such a bad thing actually.


What wall color patch on the L800 's menu would you recommend with a 1.1 gain White Screen....( White...Warm Color....or Cool color?)
Thanks..


----------



## Sonny Red

noonsa said:


> No, I'm keeping the FT and returning the Epson. The 500 dollar price difference and clear lack of effort put into the features (no ethernet, Wi-Fi 6, DTS, DV, eARC, etc.) nudged it over into the "losing" column for me. Granted most of these can be worked around with external devices. RBE has never affected me and although I am aware of the corner focus issues pointed out in the other thread, I've literally never noticed it. I'm pretty easy to please. I never adjust beyond the default settings on any TV I've ever owned.
> 
> While I didn't take pictures, I did experiment with the different color profile settings and brightness slider on the Epson, and I dunno why, I just liked the FT image better.
> My wife, who went into this little test blind, not even knowing which projector was which, just said she liked the right image better. Although most of the time it was like "what's the difference?!"


Thank you for your input.

One last question : what about the noise ? Are they equal or is one quieter than the other ?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Sonny Red said:


> Thank you for your input.
> 
> One last question : what about the noise ? Are they equal or is one quieter than the other ?


I felt the Formovie fan noise was a little more noticeable when used at it's max Brightness than than Epson L800 used at 75% brightness settings (75% on the L800 is definitely brighter than the Formovie at, it's max Brightness). Haven't used the L800 yet at max Brightness, so don't know how loud or intrusive it might be. Neither projector has an issue in terms of fan noise.
Cheers ..


----------



## Winters93

In all technical data I only read something about 80", 90", 100", 120" and 150".

I am planning to buy a 110" screen, will I have a blurred image?


----------



## Pulse1

Winters93 said:


> In all technical data I only read something about 80", 90", 100", 120" and 150".
> 
> I am planning to buy a 110" screen, will I have a blurred image?


No you will be just as fine with 110" as you would with all the other sizes you have quoted. In fact going by experience with UST Projectors you can usually go slightly smaller than the 80" and slightly bigger than the 150" sizes.


----------



## Dave Harper

mcollin6 said:


> Dave, can you explain that a little more? I’m not quite following. Are you talking about using a wall color setting “gray patch” projecting onto an ALR UST screen, or are you actually talking about projecting onto a wall 50-70% gray?


There is a wall color setting in the installation menu. You can set it to a white, warm or cool wall. This affects the white balance. If you use it in combination with the Color Temperature settings slider in the picture menu then you can get the white point pretty close to D65. 



MRJAZZZ said:


> Dave,
> Have you found a way to eliminate the "Light Bleed" that lights up the black boarders around the screen?
> Brian on his introductory video mentions something called "PIXEL SHAVING FEATURE"...
> I can't find anything in the menu's that will do this. On Epson's long throw projectors they have a BLANKING FEATURE, that would accomplish this.
> Thanks


No I haven’t seen it either. I suggested to someone to try the Edge Blurring feature to see if that helps. 



Pulse1 said:


> What Dave is talking about is using a 50-70% Window pattern to set the color balance/grey scale setting within the Picture mode settings menu on the ls800.


Yes, in combo with the Wall Color and Color Temp settings. 



MRJAZZZ said:


> What wall color patch on the L800 's menu would you recommend with a 1.1 gain White Screen....( White...Warm Color....or Cool color?)
> Thanks..


I never tested with a white screen, but as long as it is neutral, which it should be, then it should work with the same settings as the neutral grey lenticular screen I’m using. For HDR I think it was Warm Wall with CT slider at 4.


----------



## JDthird

I just got the LS800 on Friday, and have been using a simple Elite 125" motorized screen to test with since that's what is hanging in my great room for my Optoma UHD60.
Obviously, a non tensioned screen is not giving me a great uniform picture, but at least I can get an idea of picture quality, crispness of image, and brightness levels using this, knowing that a real screen will only be an improvement. 

I've been looking at tensioned motorized screens, whether floor mounted or wall mounted, since where I have things set up, my screen actually lowers over the big bay window in my great room. For obvious reasons, I cannot possibly mount a fixed screen. I've been wondering though do the tensioned ones REALLY keep the screens flat for a uniform picture? It is so distracting on my basic screen while testing this projector, that curvature and wavey surface, making it seem like projecting on a wavy flag as the camera pans. 

I'm not adverse to spending the money but I don't want to simply spend a few grand on Amazon and find out that it didn't work well. Hoping for some first person experience with some of the screens I could use. Trying to keep it between 110 and 125 inches. 

Thanks for any real world suggestions.


----------



## Dave Harper

JDthird said:


> I just got the LS800 on Friday, and have been using a simple Elite 125" motorized screen to test with since that's what is hanging in my great room for my Optoma UHD60.
> Obviously, a non tensioned screen is not giving me a great uniform picture, but at least I can get an idea of picture quality, crispness of image, and brightness levels using this, knowing that a real screen will only be an improvement.
> 
> I've been looking at tensioned motorized screens, whether floor mounted or wall mounted, since where I have things set up, my screen actually lowers over the big bay window in my great room. For obvious reasons, I cannot possibly mount a fixed screen. I've been wondering though do the tensioned ones REALLY keep the screens flat for a uniform picture? It is so distracting on my basic screen while testing this projector, that curvature and wavey surface, making it seem like projecting on a wavy flag as the camera pans.
> 
> I'm not adverse to spending the money but I don't want to simply spend a few grand on Amazon and find out that it didn't work well. Hoping for some first person experience with some of the screens I could use. Trying to keep it between 110 and 125 inches.
> 
> Thanks for any real world suggestions.


It works well with the Vividstorm 120” floor rising CLR screen. I just used it for my review of the LS800 for projectorscreen.com. 

I also hear Spectra Projection is working on a similar floor riser with a better surface and better tensioning without horizontal lines that can appear on the Vividstorm. I’d contact them to get the deets.


----------



## JDthird

Thanks. The Vividstorm is one that I was contemplating. I'll check out the Spectra as well.


----------



## Newbie1963

Is the review up?


----------



## JackB

JDthird said:


> I just got the LS800 on Friday, and have been using a simple Elite 125" motorized screen to test with since that's what is hanging in my great room for my Optoma UHD60.
> Obviously, a non tensioned screen is not giving me a great uniform picture, but at least I can get an idea of picture quality, crispness of image, and brightness levels using this, knowing that a real screen will only be an improvement.
> 
> I've been looking at tensioned motorized screens, whether floor mounted or wall mounted, since where I have things set up, my screen actually lowers over the big bay window in my great room. For obvious reasons, I cannot possibly mount a fixed screen. I've been wondering though do the tensioned ones REALLY keep the screens flat for a uniform picture? It is so distracting on my basic screen while testing this projector, that curvature and wavey surface, making it seem like projecting on a wavy flag as the camera pans.
> 
> I'm not adverse to spending the money but I don't want to simply spend a few grand on Amazon and find out that it didn't work well. Hoping for some first person experience with some of the screens I could use. Trying to keep it between 110 and 125 inches.
> 
> Thanks for any real world suggestions.


I have mine on a Silver Ticket 106” 1.0 gain electric tensioned screen. It works fine. I have a slight curve in the lower left corner that is about 4”s in area. It can be seen but blends in momentarily when watching. I suspect than any tensioned screen can have something like this. I think most important is where it occurs if it has the problem. Also, this has been used for some time with a front projector. It’s matte white and works fine with the Formovie. 

I think the ST at my size is less than a grand. Pretty good price compared to many that I have seen in this thread.


----------



## robl2

Newbie1963 said:


> Is the review up?


Doesn't look like it is yet. I think Dave is saying he's using it for the review he's writing for PS, not that the review is done


----------



## Dave Harper

Newbie1963 said:


> Is the review up?





robl2 said:


> Doesn't look like it is yet. I think Dave is saying he's using it for the review he's writing for PS, not that the review is done


Yes that’s correct. I just turned in my final draft over the weekend, so now it’s awaiting finalization and publication.


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> Yes that’s correct. I just turned in my final draft over the weekend, so now it’s awaiting finalization and publication.


Any kind of gut feel or insight that didn’t make it into the review? Did this include a head to head? From what I have been reading here, it seems that it matches up well against the AWOL (brightness) and Formovie (contrast) depending on your room considerations.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Odysea said:


> Speaking of 150 inch screens, does the LS800 have focus issues or degradation at 150 inches? I picked the formovie particularly because it touted 150 inch screen sizes.
> 
> If LS800 is crystal clear at 150 inches, that could be another major selling point and another reason to get it over the theater.


We haven’t run any patterns to check for focus at 150”, both Dave and I hav been outbid office for past 2 weeks+


----------



## mcollin6

Dave Harper said:


> It works well with the Vividstorm 120” floor rising CLR screen. I just used it for my review of the LS800 for projectorscreen.com.


It’s nice to see an evaluation done on something other than a 100” screen! Did you use the full screen, or take the image down to 100” to keep an apples-to-apples comparison with any prior testing with other projectors?


----------



## Dave Harper

mcollin6 said:


> It’s nice to see an evaluation done on something other than a 100” screen! Did you use the full screen, or take the image down to 100” to keep an apples-to-apples comparison with any prior testing with other projectors?


It was full 120”. Sorry didn’t think about keeping it the same, but this thing is super bright so it had no problem at this size. 

I have done other reviews with this screen, so it’s not in isolation.


----------



## Dave Harper

mcollin6 said:


> Any kind of gut feel or insight that didn’t make it into the review? Did this include a head to head? From what I have been reading here, it seems that it matches up well against the AWOL (brightness) and Formovie (contrast) depending on your room considerations.


I’m not sure if I’m free to say yet. That’s up the BBM, Brian aka @ProjectionHead.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

ProjectionHead said:


> We haven’t run any patterns to check for focus at 150”, both Dave and I hav been outbid office for past 2 weeks+


I believe I saw a YouTube video posted by The Home Theater Dude, showing the L 800 on a 150 inch screen and the image appeared to be very sharp.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

rjyap said:


> If Epson put in tri laser with wide color gamut in this unit, we might have a new king of UST for year 2022. High brightness, high contrast (if measurement show native > 3000 and dynamic close to 10k) and wide color gamut would be a trifecta UHD projection.


And 3D...


----------



## ProjectionHead

MRJAZZZ said:


> I believe I saw a YouTube video posted by The Home Theater Dude, showing the L 800 on a 150 inch screen and the image appeared to be very sharp.


yeah, that was on our screen at our UST showroom. Video content looks great but we haven't run test patterns to see if any loss of fine detail


----------



## Odysea

MRJAZZZ said:


> I believe I saw a YouTube video posted by The Home Theater Dude, showing the L 800 on a 150 inch screen and the image appeared to be very sharp.


If it’s just a movie playing you probably couldn’t tell. The problem for me is when gaming and there’s text boxes in the top left (of the theater). It is not ideal 

Movies look great, as the action is usually in the center.


----------



## mcollin6

To anyone who has the projector:

I run 5.1 in my theater, and have been looking at the settings to use the optical out to send DD/DTS. In order to get the best performance with my PS5, I’d like to hook it into the HDMI3 (Game) port. The manual is not clear what kind of audio output is available in the sound options, other than showing that the HDMI3 has different options. In some cases (Using ARC) it won’t output audio from a HDMI3 input. I am hoping that’s not the case with the optical output, but I can’t tell from the manual.

Would someone be able to go into the Sound Quality Settings in the Sound Menu and let me know which options are available for HDMI3? I am hoping that Optical (Digital Audio) or Optical (Auto) options are available when HDMI3 is selected as the input.











Thanks much!


----------



## JDthird

mcollin6 said:


> To anyone who has the projector:
> 
> I run 5.1 in my theater, and have been looking at the settings to use the optical out to send DD/DTS. In order to get the best performance with my PS5, I’d like to hook it into the HDMI3 (Game) port. The manual is not clear what kind of audio output is available in the sound options, other than showing that the HDMI3 has different options. In some cases (Using ARC) it won’t output audio from a HDMI3 input. I am hoping that’s not the case with the optical output, but I can’t tell from the manual.
> 
> Would someone be able to go into the Sound Quality Settings in the Sound Menu and let me know which options are available for HDMI3? I am hoping that Optical (Digital Audio) or Optical (Auto) options are available when HDMI3 is selected as the input.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3348449
> 
> 
> Thanks much!


Sound output / HDMI 3 - options I see are:
Speaker (PCM)
Optical (PCM)
Optical (Digital Audio)


----------



## jaimemlg

I have a doubt…. In Spain Px1-pro cost 2500 ( I can buy it on 2150). Epson LS800 cost 3730€.

Also I’m interesting in Hisense L9 I can get it for 3500€ with 120” screen or 3150€ with 100” Screen… Wich one do you buy?


----------



## Sonny Red

jaimemlg said:


> I have a doubt…. In Spain Px1-pro cost 2500 ( I can buy it on 2150). Epson LS800 cost 3730€.
> 
> Also I’m interesting in Hisense L9 I can get it for 3500€ with 120” screen or 3150€ with 100” Screen… Wich one do you buy?


i would buy the Epson


----------



## JDthird

Just pulled the trigger and ordered the 120" Vividstorm floor rising screen, will be delivered Saturday already, first thing in the morning. Will be interesting to see the 120" Elite standard screen I had for a few years (The $300 motorized one that has no special qualities) and this one head to head in person... Can't wait to see this Epson LS800 on a better screen than the wavy thing I have now...


----------



## 1NT0_darkness

Don`t shoot the messenger.

To celebrate the 2022 IFA event several Epson projectors including the LS800 had a 33% discount when purchased via Epson webstore covering Germany and Austria which made the LS800 available for 2500 euro.

The IFA discount was supposed to to end 15 November.

However due to great demand the offer is now closed.

epson.de


----------



## Robeck

It's correct. I am from Germany and was able to register with Epson for the IFA discount. Unfortunately, the ES800 is still not available.....

@ProjectionHead .... I'm waiting for the test🙃😂


----------



## mirzank

Robeck said:


> It's correct. I am from Germany and was able to register with Epson for the IFA discount. Unfortunately, the ES800 is still not available.....
> 
> @ProjectionHead .... I'm waiting for the test🙃😂


Ifa discount ? How do you get that ?


----------



## Robeck

You had to register with epson after the ifa. Unfortunately that's over.


----------



## JDthird

Doesn't hurt my feelings - I got mine simply for the tax hit it will add to my taxes next year. So nobody will ever have a sale a that kind of price point for me.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> Just pulled the trigger and ordered the 120" Vividstorm floor rising screen, will be delivered Saturday already, first thing in the morning. Will be interesting to see the 120" Elite standard screen I had for a few years (The $300 motorized one that has no special qualities) and this one head to head in person... Can't wait to see this Epson LS800 on a better screen than the wavy thing I have now...


If the Elite that your currently using doesn't have a " Tab Tensioning System " (and at 300.00 unlikely it does), than no UST will look good on it (to many wrinkles that will show up in the projected image) ..The Vividstorm should be an "eye opener "....


----------



## JDthird

Yep, which is why I ordered the new screen. This screen I currently had is what I had for the last few years for the standard Optoma UHD60 I had hanging over the couch. I knew while trying out the Epson that this was a nice picture, but not as good as it could look with this screen I'm stuck with for the moment, that worked great with no distortion at all from the Optoma on the other side of the room, but looked like a flag waving in the wind in a few spots with the UST in front of it.  

So I'm REALLY looking forward to what I can do Saturday, projecting something on the old screen, raising the new in front of it, and seeing the difference. Going to try to offset them a bit as well and get as close to each other as I can and see what it looks like side by side with the same content at the same time. I just love playing with new toys...


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> Yep, which is why I ordered the new screen. This screen I currently had is what I had for the last few years for the standard Optoma UHD60 I had hanging over the couch. I knew while trying out the Epson that this was a nice picture, but not as good as it could look with this screen I'm stuck with for the moment, that worked great with no distortion at all from the Optoma on the other side of the room, but looked like a flag waving in the wind in a few spots with the UST in front of it.
> 
> So I'm REALLY looking forward to what I can do Saturday, projecting something on the old screen, raising the new in front of it, and seeing the difference. Going to try to offset them a bit as well and get as close to each other as I can and see what it looks like side by side with the same content at the same time. I just love playing with new toys...


Just remember you are giving up almost 50% of your light output with the .6 gain Vividstorm, so you might want turn up the Brightness 🌞 slider to compensate (unless your already have it maxed out)😉.
Cheers...


----------



## JDthird

Yep I know. But I've been using it at the default 50% setting already and so won't notice as much of a change when I turn it up for this new screen. I kept it at the halfway mark while testing and comparing to the Optoma. And my open concept house is all blackout cellular shades so I have no problem even in the middle of the day making it pitch black if needed... Difficult to find a screen for UST's that is tensioned and not a low gain screen since I can't use a fixed screen, I have a bay window on this wall...


----------



## bix26

chiefpeon said:


> Quick update everyone - I'm taking my SECOND unit back to Best Buy. Both had stuck pixels. Anyone else having issues like this? Maybe our friends in retail can let us know if these units are being returned due to issues.


Just taking a wild guess here, but maybe something in your A/V chain is causing these pixel issues. Considering you’ve had two models with this issue, and nobody else (that I’ve seen or heard). It could also be a bad batch that got allocated to your local Best Buy. I can say that this is an exceedingly rare issue for Epson. In my 6-7 years on the forum I can’t remember ever reading about dead pixels on an LCD projector.


----------



## 1nquisitive

bix26 said:


> Just taking a wild guess here, but maybe something in your A/V chain is causing these pixel issues. Considering you’ve had two models with this issue, and nobody else (that I’ve seen or heard). It could also be a bad batch that got allocated to your local Best Buy. I can say that this is an exceedingly rare issue for Epson. In my 6-7 years on the forum I can’t remember ever reading about dead pixels on an LCD projector.


On my EPSON LS12000, I noticed pixels "sticking", but it was only on some streamed content, and seemingly only on Netflix. So, in my case, I don't think it's the projector. I watch TV and game on it constantly, no issues elsewhere. Maybe similar for your LS800.


----------



## 1nquisitive

1nquisitive said:


> On my EPSON LS12000, I noticed pixels "sticking", but it was only on some streamed content, and seemingly only on Netflix. So, in my case, I don't think it's the projector. I watch TV and game on it constantly, no issues elsewhere. Maybe similar for your LS800.


Oops. Ment to reply to Chiefpeon. Oh well.


----------



## en1gma582

Robeck said:


> It's correct. I am from Germany and was able to register with Epson for the IFA discount. Unfortunately, the ES800 is still not available.....
> 
> @ProjectionHead .... I'm waiting for the test🙃😂


I also registered. But i was under the impression that Epson canceled the whole thing before the LS800 became available. I doubt that registering on the website will let you buy the projector with the IFA rebate once it becomes available. I guess the registration form was only a way to get notified when stock arrives  Since we dind`t buy the projector yet, Epson is under no legal obligation to sell with a rebate.


----------



## Sonny Red

en1gma582 said:


> I also registered. But i was under the impression that Epson canceled the whole thing before the LS800 became available. I doubt that registering on the website will let you buy the projector with the IFA rebate once it becomes available. I guess the registration form was only a way to get notified when stock arrives  Since we dind`t buy the projector yet, Epson is under no legal obligation to sell with a rebate.


Brands like Epson do not like bad publicity. Write some post on their Facebook page and believe me they will send you a PM to sort everything out.


----------



## chiefpeon

bix26 said:


> Just taking a wild guess here, but maybe something in your A/V chain is causing these pixel issues. Considering you’ve had two models with this issue, and nobody else (that I’ve seen or heard). It could also be a bad batch that got allocated to your local Best Buy. I can say that this is an exceedingly rare issue for Epson. In my 6-7 years on the forum I can’t remember ever reading about dead pixels on an LCD projector.


Not the case - I was running the same video chain including cables with the VAVA chroma and no issues. Both LS800 units had stuck pixels in different areas of the screen and pixels remained when using internal apps.



> >> ALSO, Third unit is showing no stuck pixels at this point. FINALLY!!!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

chiefpeon said:


> Not the case - I was running the same video chain including cables with the VAVA chroma and no issues. Both LS800 units had stuck pixels in different areas of the screen and pixels remained when using internal apps.


Three is Your Magic number ✨️ ... 🙂


----------



## Gwreck

MRJAZZZ said:


> Three is Your Magic number ✨️ ... 🙂


 Not lucky for anyone else though(lol), as i suspect these units will circulate as “open box” units forever being returned to BB by the unsuspecting buyers due to the dead pixels. These units will never find a home.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Installed a new screen today. Replaced an excellent Vividstorm Cinema White 100 inch screen (1.1 gain) with an Elite Kestrel Tab tensioned Screen, also a white screen ( 1.2 gain) , 122 inches.
Fortunately install went well except the screen does have some minor waves near the upper edges on one side, due to the tab tensioning being a little loose ( my guess, could be just a manufacturing glitch), however only noticeable on bright daytime video shots, and even than not that bad.
Overall very pleased with the install, and size matters....100 to 122 inches makes a big difference ... As they say, Go Big or Go Home. 🙂.
Anyway here's a few pics of the screen and images from various times in the day to the evening .


----------



## 1nquisitive

MRJAZZZ said:


> Installed a new screen today. Replaced an excellent Vividstorm Cinema White 100 inch screen (1.1 gain) with an Elite Kestrel Tab tensioned Screen, also a white screen ( 1.2 gain) , 122 inches.
> Fortunately install went well except the screen does have some minor waves near the upper edges on one side, due to the tab tensioning being a little loose ( my guess, could be just a manufacturing glitch), however only noticeable on bright daytime video shots, and even than not that bad.
> Overall very pleased with the install, and size matters....100 to 122 inches makes a big difference ... As they say, Go Big or Go Home. 🙂.
> Anyway here's a few pics of the screen and images from various times in the day to the evening .
> View attachment 3349277
> 
> View attachment 3349276
> 
> View attachment 3349270
> 
> View attachment 3349272
> 
> View attachment 3349275
> 
> View attachment 3349271
> 
> View attachment 3349274
> 
> View attachment 3349273
> 
> View attachment 3349269
> 
> View attachment 3349267
> 
> View attachment 3349268
> 
> View attachment 3349265
> 
> View attachment 3349266
> 
> View attachment 3349264


To be honest, seeing as how you're using a positive gain screen, those black levels look better than I thought they would. What laser output level did you use on the pics? Also, thanks for sharing!


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> Fortunately install went well except the screen does have some minor waves near the upper edges on one side, due to the tab tensioning being a little loose ( my guess, could be just a manufacturing glitch), however only noticeable on bright daytime video shots, and even than not that bad.


Isnt the tab tensioning adjustable? Seems like a manufacturer Would need to have adjustment to allow for part to part variation at the plant…


----------



## kraine

Tic, tac, tic, tac… 









EPSON EH-LS800 réception du projecteur laser à ultra courte focale pour un futur test - Mondoprojos.fr


TEST EPSON EH-LS800




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## MRJAZZZ

1nquisitive said:


> To be honest, seeing as how you're using a positive gain screen, those black levels look better than I thought they would. What laser output level did you use on the pics? Also, thanks for sharing!


Was running the Lazer output around 75% using the Cinema setting. 
Contrast was 53 I believe, brightness tab at 47. Don't recall the other settings but saturation was up a little...around 55. I have lowered saturation to 53 today...looks a little more natural.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

mcollin6 said:


> Isnt the tab tensioning adjustable? Seems like a manufacturer Would need to have adjustment to allow for part to part variation at the plant…


I don't know. There's nothing in the information pamphlet that mentions any "adjustments" in the tab tensioning. It's really not that bad and it's just on the 3 highest tabs on the one side. 
The one thing I don't like is there are no black boarders on the sides, top , like the 100 inch VIVIDSTORM, so I may play around with slightly shrinking the image to give the appearance of a Boarder. This will eliminate the "wavy" areas mentioned. 
Anyway minor issues in the grand scheme of Home Theater Issues...😉


----------



## Kev1000000

Just received my unit! Will write up impressions with photos this weekend!


----------



## satriani

Anyone expecting a Black Friday discount on LS800?


----------



## JoeBoy73

MRJAZZZ said:


> I don't know. There's nothing in the information pamphlet that mentions any "adjustments" in the tab tensioning. It's really not that bad and it's just on the 3 highest tabs on the one side.
> The one thing I don't like is there are no black boarders on the sides, top , like the 100 inch VIVIDSTORM, so I may play around with slightly shrinking the image to give the appearance of a Boarder. This will eliminate the "wavy" areas mentioned.
> Anyway minor issues in the grand scheme of Home Theater Issues...😉


Great pics, thanks for sharing! When you mention, "boarder". Would you also describe it as a "halo" around the image? I know some of the other USTs have this, but I was thinking Epson's didn't ...


----------



## Odysea

Gwreck said:


> Not lucky for anyone else though(lol), as i suspect these units will circulate as “open box” units forever being returned to BB by the unsuspecting buyers due to the dead pixels. These units will never find a home.


I’m getting some flashbacks to the 5040ub lol


----------



## Pulse1

JoeBoy73 said:


> Great pics, thanks for sharing! When you mention, "boarder". Would you also describe it as a "halo" around the image? I know some of the other USTs have this, but I was thinking Epson's didn't ...


I can confirm that my Epson EH-LS300 doesn't have a border around the image so don't know why the much more expensive EH-LS800 does.


----------



## mcollin6

JoeBoy73 said:


> Great pics, thanks for sharing! When you mention, "boarder". Would you also describe it as a "halo" around the image? I know some of the other USTs have this, but I was thinking Epson's didn't ...


I believe that he was talking about the screen itself and not the image. Most floor rising screens do not have any blackout except across the bottom of the screen, and the published size is typical 2” less than the full size of the screen. The expectation is that the user will shrink the image a couple of inches creating a “border” of unused material around the perimeter of the image and that will matched the published size.

This has nothing to do with light spill that is typically seen in DLP projectors. In fact, Epson has a method of fading the edges to inspire that there is no light spill around the edges, It can be accessed by using the remote and has been talked about in prior comments in this discussion.

See the yellow highlighted area of the manual page attached below.


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> The one thing I don't like is there are no black boarders on the sides, top , like the 100 inch VIVIDSTORM, so I may play around with slightly shrinking the image to give the appearance of a Boarder.


Rather than reducing the image size, could you try the Flexible Picture settings to see how they work by pixel cropping the image? We discussed this earlier, but I don’t think you tried using it. I’d be interested to see how it is implemented and if it will actually crop pixels to create a fully black area around the image. It looks like it does a vignette rather than a direct crop. Not sure is that is better or worse with your screen…

See the yellow highlight below. Not much information in the manual, but playing around with it should provide some decent information…. Use the blank button on the remote…


----------



## MRJAZZZ

mcollin6 said:


> Rather than reducing the image size, could you try the Flexible Picture settings to see how they work by pixel cropping the image? We discussed this earlier, but I don’t think you tried using it. I’d be interested to see how it is implemented and if it will actually crop pixels to create a fully black area around the image. It looks like it does a vignette rather than a direct crop. Not sure is that is better or worse with your screen…
> 
> See the yellow highlight below. Not much information in the manual, but playing around with it should provide some decent information…. Use the blank button on the remote…
> 
> View attachment 3349465


I did try it, however it didn't accomplish what I had hoped...yes it did shrink the image, similar to what can be done with simply using the 4 point corner installation controls (and Epson should have allowed for an 8 point installation capability control to bring in the sides, as there's a slight bowing effect on the sides....(this may be due to not optimal projector alignment on my part, as I am over an inch farther out then Epson's set up chart indicates indicates and I am allowing for the fact my new screen is slightly larger than the 120 inch one used in their set up chart)
One side benefit of no black out boarders on the sides and top of the new screen is that light bleed ( or glow) that we were discussing earlier isn't an issue, although some light spill can be seen on the very far right and left walls behind the screen 😐...this can be mitigated somewhat by dialing in the 4 corners on the installation menu.


----------



## Winters93

I was actually very interested in the LS800, mainly because it was supposed to be available in Germany for 2500 euros. (IFA discount)

If it's only available for 3700, is the Epson worth it for this price?

For me it is so interesting mainly because of the high brightness and the low input lag.

What are alternatives? The Hisense 9LG has an input lag that is too high. The LG Vivo is too expensive and also has an input lag that is too high. Many other laser TVs are not bright enough...?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Some more pics from this afternoon showing the new ( Non ALR ) Elite 1.2 Gain White Screen ....Although I have no light from behind my seated position, there's a wall of windows to the right, some of which have moderate to very limited light control ...The Epson's picture is still very watchable. I am using Dynamic mode during the day time ( Cinema at night).


----------



## Gwreck

Winters93 said:


> I was actually very interested in the LS800, mainly because it was supposed to be available in Germany for 2500 euros. (IFA discount)
> 
> If it's only available for 3700, is the Epson worth it for this price?
> 
> For me it is so interesting mainly because of the high brightness and the low input lag.
> 
> What are alternatives? The Hisense 9LG has an input lag that is too high. The LG Vivo is too expensive and also has an input lag that is too high. Many other laser TVs are not bright enough...?


I have the ls500 and replaced it with the 800. The 800 is much better with the colors being more vivid and the blacks actually being black while keeping the brightness. Sure if I had $25k I’d buy a 100 inch oled but this makes me happy now.


----------



## mcollin6

MRJAZZZ said:


> I did try it, however it didn't accomplish what I had hoped...yes it did shrink the image, similar to what can be done with simply using the 4 point corner installation controls (and Epson should have allowed for an 8 point installation capability control to bring in the sides, as there's a slight bowing effect on the sides....(this may be due to not optimal projector alignment on my part, as I am over an inch farther out then Epson's set up chart indicates indicates and I am allowing for the fact my new screen is slightly larger than the 120 inch one used in their set up chart)
> One side benefit of no black out boarders on the sides and top of the new screen is that light bleed ( or glow) that we were discussing earlier isn't an issue, although some light spill can be seen on the very far right and left walls behind the screen 😐...this can be mitigated somewhat by dialing in the 4 corners on the installation menu.


I was actually thinking of the other function, NOT image shrinking, but the fade to black using the “blank” button. The “brightness“ buttons play with image size while the blank button shuts off pixels around the border.


----------



## Winters93

Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 3-Chip 3LCD Smart Streaming Laser Projector


The UST TV replacement with the shortest throw




uk.pcmag.com


----------



## roscoeiii

MRJAZZZ said:


> Some more pics from this afternoon showing the new ( Non ALR ) Elite 1.2 Gain White Screen ....Although I have no light from behind my seated position, there's a wall of windows to the right, some of which have moderate to very limited light control ...The Epson's picture is still very watchable. I am using Dynamic mode during the day time ( Cinema at night).
> View attachment 3349577
> 
> View attachment 3349578
> 
> View attachment 3349579
> 
> View attachment 3349580
> 
> View attachment 3349575
> 
> View attachment 3349581
> 
> View attachment 3349576
> 
> View attachment 3349574
> 
> View attachment 3349573


Very impressive for non-ALR screen!!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

roscoeiii said:


> Very impressive for non-ALR screen!!


Thanks....
Here's 2 more pics from this evening....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

mcollin6 said:


> I was actually thinking of the other function, NOT image shrinking, but the fade to black using the “blank” button. The “brightness“ buttons play with image size while the blank button shuts off pixels around the border.


I did try that function...as previously stated didn't work the way I thought it would...it actually does shrink the image, in a similar fashion to the other setting that also shrinks the image, however it left a few anomalies on one of the borders ( 2 or 3 white dots).
Anyway tonight I decided to try the actual Shrink option again and it left a nice even 1 to 1.5 inch border around the entire image.
It now resembles a screen that has a surrounding Black out border ( actually its more a dark Grey border) and removes the issue I had with the wavy, wrinkles on one of the upper edges of the screen due to the somewhat loose fitting of the tab tensioning. 
This Shrink option is actually a Digital Zoom function, at least that's how I see it.
Cheers...


----------



## Robeck

Can you tell me something about the fan volume?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Robeck said:


> Can you tell me something about the fan volume?


Unless the room is very warm due to outside temperatures, (I have AC in my Home Theater room, however I rarely use it ) the fan noise is very low, and even than it wasn't that bad .
Generally the fan noise is extremely low. Somewhat better than the Formovie T1 Global I had, and better than the Epson 5050UB I recently sold.


----------



## kraine

LS800 sound measurements 

00% laser = 35,5 dB
50% laser = 36,3 dB
100% laser = 39 dB

In fact after measurements (50 cm away from the projector), the LS800 is louder than the Formovie.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> LS800 sound measurements
> 
> 00% laser = 35,5 dB
> 50% laser = 36,3 dB
> 100% laser = 39 dB
> 
> In fact after measurements (50 cm away from the projector), the LS800 is louder than the Formovie.
> 
> View attachment 3349830


Mine is very quiet unless the room heats up (above 85 Fahrenheit ). I only briefly tried the L800 at full brightness and didn't hear the fan noise change,...perhaps after it is used at 100% for a period of time it would/will change. 

I no longer have the Formovie, but my sense is that I could hear the fan from my seated position ( approx 11 feet) more than I currently hear the fan noise from the Epson L800...
Neither were loud enough to draw attention to it as an issue while enjoying a movie, etc.
Cheers....


----------



## kraine

Some feedback from the Epson EH-LS800 test:

Here is part of the usual table with post-calibration results. Finally as you can see with a DeltaE of 11.74K for a color temperature of 6360K, I am far from perfection. The fault is a lack of fine tuning of the color temperature. There are only preset values from 0 to 12. The Gamut is better managed after calibration but it will be necessary to be satisfied with 80% of the DCI-P3 at most.

The native contrast is 3 times lower than the UST ALPD lasers, it will be necessary to use the dynamic contrast with the Epson.

Regarding the brightness, if it is possible to reach the 4000 lumens promised by the manufacturer it is at the cost of unusable colors in home theater.

With more natural colors and the laser reduced to 50% (to make the noise of operation bearable) it will be necessary to settle for 1684 lumens. 

The rest in the test


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Mr Kraine,
Your unit is apparently defective (fan noise).
I run mine at 75 to 80 % Lazer Brightness, 8 to 10 hours a day for the past week, or so, and the fan noise is Whisper Quiet at an 11 foot seated position. 
The only time it gets louder than the above is when the heat rises to an extreme, in an enclosed space...something on the order of 85 to 90 degrees, than the fan does ramp up, but even than is manageable , especially when there's sound coming out of the 7.1.2 system. 

You make it sound like anyone who uses the LS 800 is stuck with using the L800 at its default Lazer setting (50%) otherwise the noise is so intrusive that it's not possible to watch and enjoy a video, movie, etc.

Nothing could be further from the truth.....
AT LEAST with the Epson L800 that I am using.
Thanks for posting your test results. 
Cheers...


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Never posted a video before, so not sure if it will play back properly...Anyway the attached video let's you hear the LS 800 playing in my room...the only sound that I hear is the ambient sound of the room itself...
Hope this is beneficial to anyone worried about using the Ls 800 that it's fan noise might be to loud and intrusive to enjoy a quality Home Theater Experience...
Cheers..


----------



## JDthird

Mine has been whisper quiet. Of course, I'm used to an Optoma UHD 60 that was above the couch. I can hear the fan ramp up a little during power on just like a server or something would, then it drops to just about totally unnoticeable about 12 feet from it unless there's absolutely no noise in my house. Even a car passing outside drowns out the little bit of fan noise I hear. I haven't had it get louder than this little whisper so far even after 16 hours straight viewing.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Sorry the video didn't..
File to large...May try again....
Cheers


----------



## MRJAZZZ

MRJAZZZ said:


> Sorry the video didn't..
> File to large...May try again....
> Cheers


Sorry my video didn't load....file to large....
Anyway back to your normal programming 😉


----------



## JDthird

Now I'd be a happy camper if I could find a way to force it to always start on the HDMI input I use from the AVR rather than on its own home screen... Not finding that option though, am I missing something or is it, as I fear, simply not possible? First world problem, yes, but would be handy if it was somewhere I didn't find...


----------



## JoeBoy73

Pulse1 said:


> I can confirm that my Epson EH-LS300 doesn't have a border around the image so don't know why the much more expensive EH-LS800 does.
> [/QUOTE





MRJAZZZ said:


> Unless the room is very warm due to outside temperatures, (I have AC in my Home Theater room, however I rarely use it ) the fan noise is very low, and even than it wasn't that bad .
> Generally the fan noise is extremely low. Somewhat better than the Formovie T1 Global I had, and better than the Epson 5050UB I recently sold.


Curious...compared to your 5050ub how is the picture quality and black levels?


----------



## kraine

These are only objective measurements in the same environment with always the same protocol and the same distance regardless of the projector.
It is enough to compare from one model to another. My LS800 works perfectly normally.

PS: You have to go well below the values you indicate to get the best level of discretion at least up to 60%.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> Now I'd be a happy camper if I could find a way to force it to always start on the HDMI input I use from the AVR rather than on its own home screen... Not finding that option though, am I missing something or is it, as I fear, simply not possible? First world problem, yes, but would be handy if it was somewhere I didn't find...


I have the same complaint as well. If there's a way to have it by pass the Home Screen on start up, I haven't found it ....yet.


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## JDthird

Finally get to see this on a tensioned screen so it's not all distorted like it was on my 125" Elite motorized drop down normal screen... Now it's on a 120" Vividstorm floor rising ALR. Even though I lost some gain the picture is so much better. And wow, I can't believe how usable this is in a bright room now. I'll post some comparison photos later if anyone wants to see, the old screen on the top half and the new screen on the bottom half of various 4k content with lights on and with lights off.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> These are only objective measurements in the same environment with always the same protocol and the same distance regardless of the projector.
> It is enough to compare from one model to another. My LS800 works perfectly normally.
> 
> PS: You have to go well below the values you indicate to get the best level of discretion at least up to 60%.


Not sure what you mean by...
" THE Best Levels of Discretion "....

ANYWAY, I find it hard to believe that your LS 800 is working "perfectly normally " if you are unable to watch/enjoy the LS800, unless the Lazer level is at 50% due to the loud fan noise that you are hearing ( and your measurement showing 39 DB , and 36 Db are indeed somewhat loud...
( especially the 39db measurement).

Epson isn't know to exaggerate their specs (Lumens, fan noise level, etc.) Epson's stated specification for fan noise is 32 DB Maximum..not the 39 you measured. That's quite a difference....perhaps Epson is indeed exaggerating their fan noise spec, or something else is happening with your unit/system. 

FYI, my significant other just came into the Home Theater room...I paused the video and asked her..." What do you hear"?...She stared at me and asked ..." What do you mean...what do I hear?"....I responded the noise in the room right now....SHE said..."THE ONLY NOISE I HEAR IS YOU TALKING "....😉
Anyway thanks again for your feedback and hard work with the measurements, and commentary. 
Cheers....


----------



## JDthird

MRJAZZZ said:


> I have the same complaint as well. If there's a way to have it by pass the Home Screen on start up, I haven't found it ....yet.


I think I just have to settle for using HDMI 3. Since this is coming out of an AVR I don't need this to control anything or pass audio anywhere, so on HDMI 3 I can simply use the game controller button on the remote when it powers on to go to the input... A little less work at least...


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> I think I just have to settle for using HDMI 3. Since this is coming out of an AVR I don't need this to control anything or pass audio anywhere, so on HDMI 3 I can simply use the game controller button on the remote when it powers on to go to the input... A little less work at least...


Does the HDMI input 3, which is the gaming input, lock you out of some video settings, since usually the " Gaming " inputs on various projectors are set up to maximize gaming and not video performance...at least I believe that's what can happen on some projectors that have a dedicated gaming input.


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## MRJAZZZ

Some recent pics .. most are 2K, from YouTube TV....upscaled to 4k...


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## JDthird

In your setup I'd be more interested in what it looked like with the blinds open or at least pivoted differently, since you have them tilted so all light can't go directly on the screen, and outside is only visible from standing in the back of the room. Looks good through either way.


----------



## JDthird

Now as to the Flexible Picture option mentioned earlier. I thought I'd give it a try. I just got my 120 ALR this morning, and have my Epson set to it goes RIGHT to the edge. You can see in the one picture that I zoomed in a bit, you can see a bit of the curl from the very edge of the tensioned screen. For me, that adaptive border didn't touch top and bottom at all, ONLY the sides and only less than an inch. Tough getting a closeup without the camera freaking out due to the darkness, so the top two are a bit fuzzy, sorry. You can still kind of see it in the clearer shots after that though. No cropping at all top and bottom, only the sides. But it does a nice job of that at least.


----------



## JDthird

MRJAZZZ said:


> Does the HDMI input 3, which is the gaming input, lock you out of some video settings, since usually the " Gaming " inputs on various projectors are set up to maximize gaming and not video performance...at least I believe that's what can happen on some projectors that have a dedicated gaming input.


Yes, some of the buttons on the remote are not functional with HDMI 3 for Game enabled. You can still get at other settings by jumping to the main home screen first, but I don't know what ones would persist if you change anything there when you go back to the game input.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> In your setup I'd be more interested in what it looked like with the blinds open or at least pivoted differently, since you have them tilted so all light can't go directly on the screen, and outside is only visible from standing in the back of the room. Looks good through either way.


I leave half of the windows/sliding door open to light


----------



## MRJAZZZ




----------



## JDthird

Yes they're open to light - but they are vertical blinds, and turned so no light can get on the screen, only into the back of the room. Which is why in the first picture you can see outside, since from THERE it's open to the outside. If you stood where the screen was when they were in that position you'd just see blinds that had no actual visibility outside from that position. So the only direct light the screen is getting is from the glass in the door. If all the rest of the room, say, were as brightly lit as in this example when I was comparing my white Elite screen with the ALR in total brightness.


----------



## AwokeFromHypersleep

Anyone know if the vertical offset measurements have been posted anywhere?


----------



## JDthird

Is this what you're looking for?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> Yes they're open to light - but they are vertical blinds, and turned so no light can get on the screen, only into the back of the room. Which is why in the first picture you can see outside, since from THERE it's open to the outside. If you stood where the screen was when they were in that position you'd just see blinds that had no actual visibility outside from that position. So the only direct light the screen is getting is from the glass in the door. If all the rest of the room, say, were as brightly lit as in this example when I was comparing my white Elite screen with the ALR in total brightness.
> View attachment 3350019


If this is your typical viewing environment and lighting conditions than no neutral or plus gain screen will look good . 
Would only use the Negative Gain ALR screen that you currently have. 
Next time it's sunny out, I will try and angle the vertical blinds so that they are allowing more light in, however not sure what it will reveal...any direct light is the enemy of projection video...even one utilizing an ALR SCREEN...it just won't be as bad an experience. 
Cheers...


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> Yes they're open to light - but they are vertical blinds, and turned so no light can get on the screen, only into the back of the room. Which is why in the first picture you can see outside, since from THERE it's open to the outside. If you stood where the screen was when they were in that position you'd just see blinds that had no actual visibility outside from that position. So the only direct light the screen is getting is from the glass in the door. If all the rest of the room, say, were as brightly lit as in this example when I was comparing my white Elite screen with the ALR in total brightness.
> View attachment 3350019


See my above reply to your question...didn't mean to re-post the pictures that I already had posted earlier....


----------



## JDthird

MRJAZZZ said:


> View attachment 3350018
> 
> View attachment 3350017
> 
> View attachment 3350016
> 
> View attachment 3350014
> 
> View attachment 3350015
> 
> 
> 
> If this is your typical viewing environment and lighting conditions than no neutral or plus gain screen will look good .
> Would only use the Negative Gain ALR screen that you currently have.
> Next time it's sunny out, I will try and angle the vertical blinds so that they are allowing more light in, however not sure what it will reveal...any direct light is the enemy of projection video...even one utilizing an ALR SCREEN...it just won't be as bad an experience.
> Cheers...


I'm aware that darkness is ideal. Just was trying to gauge my Elite screen that I've had for several years to yours. Couldn't use mine since it was not tab tensioned and so was far too wavy to give a good picture. Was looking at what alternatives I had, other than the ALR screen, that would work with this Epson.


----------



## AwokeFromHypersleep

JDthird said:


> Is this what you're looking for?
> View attachment 3350028


It is! Right on. Thanks!


----------



## earlspinkipad

roscoeiii said:


> Yeah, what is the opposite of future proofing? I think they call it future spoofing 😏


----------



## slowgraffiti

JDthird said:


> Yes, some of the buttons on the remote are not functional with HDMI 3 for Game enabled. You can still get at other settings by jumping to the main home screen first, but I don't know what ones would persist if you change anything there when you go back to the game input.
> View attachment 3349996
> 
> 
> View attachment 3349997


Hi,
I have my projector on order, due end October apparently, and I have all my gaming and none gaming sources going through my av amp.

Does the limited settings on game port mean that if I want to take advantage of 120hz I will need to swap my hdmi cable to and from the game port every time I go from game to film? I think I read no arc on that port so I couldn't connect ps5 directly and get sound to my amp? Or is there a better way?

If I were to just leave in hdmi 2, would I lose out on anything else in games? Higher lag or anything?


----------



## prade

MRJAZZZ said:


> Unless the room is very warm due to outside temperatures, (I have AC in my Home Theater room, however I rarely use it ) the fan noise is very low, and even than it wasn't that bad .
> Generally the fan noise is extremely low. Somewhat better than the Formovie T1 Global I had, and better than the Epson 5050UB I recently sold.


My fan is pretty quiet when the brightness is not turned up high. At full speed, I would not call the fan quiet. In fact the fan can be loud. I do want to mention the fan is within your control. For reference, I have an Elite CLR3 screen and reasonable light control in a living room without any direct sun exposure. I do however have about 7 recessed lights in a 525sqft space and do turn them on during the day and often at least 3 at night.

I was playing with the LS800 brightness today. I noticed the fan gets loud around 75%+ of the bar when I use the remote to turn up the brightness. However, I honestly don’t notice a huge difference in brightness between 50 and 75 and will just keep the brightness lower to avoid the fan noise. With my projector I either hear the fan noise or I don’t. I only hear the fan if the brightness is turned up pretty high, and my picture is consistently good without turning up the brightness.

Disclaimer: The LS800 is my first projector (novice). I have been using LG OLED TVs since they debuted but wanted an immersive movie theater experience. A 77” OLED is just no comparison. And I will not pay $25k for a 96” OLED, unless maybe inflation really gets bad and $25k is worth dramatically less than it is today. 😉


----------



## MRJAZZZ

prade said:


> My fan is pretty quiet when the brightness is not turned up high. At full speed, I would not call the fan quiet. In fact the fan can be loud. I do want to mention the fan is within your control. For reference, I have an Elite CLR2 screen and reasonable light control in a living room without any direct sun exposure. I do however have about 7 recessed lights in a 525sqft space and do turn them on during the day and often at least 3 at night.
> 
> I was playing with the LS800 brightness today. I noticed the fan gets loud around 75%+ of the bar when I use the remote to turn up the brightness. However, I honestly don’t notice a huge difference in brightness between 50 and 75 and will just keep the brightness lower to avoid the fan noise. With my projector I either hear the fan noise or I don’t. I only hear the fan if the brightness is turned up pretty high, and my picture is consistently good without turning up the brightness.
> 
> Disclaimer: The LS800 is my first projector (novice). I have been using LG OLED TVs since they debuted but wanted an immersive movie theater experience. A 77” OLED is just no comparison. And I will not pay $25k for a 96” OLED, unless maybe inflation really gets bad and $25k is worth dramatically less than it is today. 😉


If you want a big Flat Panel Led experience, with out using projection displays they are getting cheaper....still expensive though. TCL has a 98 Inch Panel ( QLED I believe) at $7500.00. Samsung has a 98 inch Micro LED ( they call it NEO) at 15k , which I have as my primary display in a different area of the house. The 98 inch Samsung has a Stunning picture. It's my Reference, for all things Video....
My Epson LS800 continues to be Whisper Quiet at 75% brightness. The only time I really notice it is when I walk up to it and bend down to make some adjustments. Perhaps some of these units are sensitive to the surroundings they are in, and how they interact with the environment and what they are placed on. Sitting directly on a floor, or a cabinet (wood or other hard material) might in someway"amplify" the sound ( fan noise) so that it becomes more noticeable. Don't really know....just speculating here...
My unit is sitting on an expensive stand designed for heavy, audio amplifiers and is on a padded carpet. 
I also use expensive stainless steel footers to further isolate the projector from the environment. 
Cheers....


----------



## prade

mcollin6 said:


> I believe that he was talking about the screen itself and not the image. Most floor rising screens do not have any blackout except across the bottom of the screen, and the published size is typical 2” less than the full size of the screen. The expectation is that the user will shrink the image a couple of inches creating a “border” of unused material around the perimeter of the image and that will matched the published size.
> 
> This has nothing to do with light spill that is typically seen in DLP projectors. In fact, Epson has a method of fading the edges to inspire that there is no light spill around the edges, It can be accessed by using the remote and has been talked about in prior comments in this discussion.
> 
> See the yellow highlighted area of the manual page attached below.
> 
> View attachment 3349456


With the LS800, I do have a slight halo of light around my fixed screen. I’m not sure if this is the correct term for this. I’ve seen it called a splash too. It’s just a hint of light that surrounds my screen, mostly on the vertical sides. It’s most visible at night and is almost like a faint and static light that starts about 3 inches past the frame and is about 3 inches wide. It’s definitely not part of the image because the faint grayish blue color and intensity do not change. I’m planning to put lights behind my Elite CLR3 screen since it came with lights. These backlighting should be brighter and should make the unintentional halo disappear. 

I tried changing the distance, no luck. I tried the setting above, which unfortunately only changed the picture within the framed area. But thank you very much for the suggestion!!! Perhaps this is normal with a thin edge around the screen versus having the thicker black velvet around some screens. It’s not bad, but I’m new to projectors and didn’t expect any light beyond the image. I’m definitely not returning the projector based on this minute surprise..


----------



## Kev1000000

Alright, here are my first impressions of the LS800, after owning/trying the following projectors: Hisense L9G, LG HU85LA, Optoma P1, Samsung LSP9/7T, Benq v7050i, and the Epson LS500. Keep in mind, this is only after using the projector for about 8 hours this weekend.


*Picture Quality*

This thing is a straight up light cannon. The 4,000 lumens is no joke, and the brightness is very well controlled, as contrast seemingly holds up well when brightness is cranked to the max. I mostly used the "Dynamic" video mode with some tweaks (lowered contrast, adjusted color temp, slight bump to saturation, reduced sharpness, etc).
Colors, for a single laser UST, are quite vibrant and punchy. They don't quite match the 3-laser setups such as the L9G or Samsung LSP9T, but it gets somewhat close. In fact, I would argue the colors are more natural than the eye-seering reds I saw on the tri-laser units I've tried.
The image is soooo incredibly smooth and clean. Having tried a few of the 3-laser setups, there is of course zero laser speckle here of any kind, and the overall image is sooo smooth and clean. No major hotspotting, even with the crazy brightness, no banding, no sharpness fringing (if you turn it down), no convergence issues, no RBE, nothing. Just a smooth, clean, and cinema-like image.
Black levels are suprisingly good given the light cannon nature of this thing. I would still put the LSP9T ahead of the LS800 for black levels, but the LS800 has much better blacks than the L9G. In fact, the inter-scene contrast is handled very well, with candles and other bright areas of a scene really using the 4,000 lumens well, with the rest of the scene being quite dark. On some dark scenes, the darker areas did become more blue than pure black, but the top and bottom bars showed inky blacks, so I think it was either the movie or my video player potentially causing this.
Focus... well, it's a problem on my unit. I've read a lot of things about this projector claiming the focus is tack sharp, but it's not on mine, and I can't get a uniform focus throughout the image. Worse, it shifts as the unit warms up. I am hoping this is just it breaking in and the focus drift will lessen over time, and I am still fiddling with the placement of the unit, but this could be a deal breaker for me, as I read a lot of text on my HTPC.
The crazy throw ratio, while impressive, also has a major downside... even the smallest adjustments make huge shifts in the projected image. Having messed with a half dozen USTs at this point, I can confirm this was the most difficult to align correctly. I don't use software correction, so it took nearly an hour to get an alignment I was somewhat happy with to evaluate this projector, and it may be a factor in my focus issues, but this is simply not an easy projector to align without software correction.

*Other Things to Note*

As noted by others in the thread, the fan noise below ~70% is very quiet, but above 70% (where I believe this projector really shines), it's quite loud. Not LS500 level loud, but you can hear it. If you're actually watching content you won't notice it, but if it's in your living room and there isn't any content on, you'll hear it at brightness levels above 70%.
Input Lag is very low, as advertised, but only on the dedicated GAME HDMI input. You can't enable gaming mode on any other input, so you're locked to low input lag based on INPUT and not settings. Since I use an HTPC for both watching content and playing games, this means I have to decide between low input lag or easy menu changes. What is seemingly odd is that changes you make to the projector's image settings with the Android OS apply to the GAME input, even dynamic contrast, adaptive gamma curves, etc. Those options are definitely still processing on the GAME input, but the projector disables access to the menu while running that input. So you can tweak picture options in the Android OS screens, then switch to the GAME input and they'll still apply. This is actually pretty awesome since you can kinda have the best of both worlds. There may be _some _picture options that don't work, but I haven't run across them yet.
I really like that the remote has a dedicated laser brightness button. You can quickly adjust the laser output without diving into menus, and since the fan noise is tied to laser brightness, it makes it easy to lower it a bit if there is no content. I wish there was preset brightness modes though so I can have a quick single button to toggle the fan noise as silent or full brightness and audible.
The projector starts up and turns off pretty quick. The turning on and actually displaying content takes a bit longer than I think it needs to (seems to hunt for a signal), but it's still just ~12 seconds, which isn't terrible.
The lack of CMS isn't great, but I will say this projector required the least amount of tweaking out of the box (with the BenQ v7050i being another contender here). Most of the tweaks were just color temperature, sharpness, and other more subjective preferences than anything.
Manual focus rings are not great. If you _finally _get the image nice and aligned, and then want to adjust focus, you have to take the right-hand side cover off and physically move the focus ring. This usually causes the alignment to move and is just annoying. I would much prefer a motorized focus approach. This is especially important if you use a specific UST console that tries and hides the unit. Or, give me a fixed focus lens like the L9G!

So yes, I've only had about 8 hours so far with this unit, but my first impressions with it are quite solid. It shoots a bright, punchy, and super clean image that maintains good black levels, brightness uniformity, and contrast. I wish the fan noise at higher brightness was less audible, and the focus issues are a big concern for me, but I will continue to eval those as I put more mileage on this unit.

In general, if I can figure out this focus issue, I will likely be keeping this unit. And that is definitely a strong point for the LS800, since I have experienced nearly all of its competition, sans the Formovie T1 or the recently released LG HU915Q.

For what it's worth, here is how I would order all of the projectors I have tried so far in terms of overall image quality:

*Epson LS800 *- My new top UST in terms of image quality. Super bright, great color, zero laser speckle, low input lag, good black levels, and just in general a very clean and punchy image. Focus is currently a problem, but I am hoping to resolve that with more alignment tweaks.
*Hisense L9G *-My previous top candidate. Very bright, awesome color, minimal laser speckle (but still there), low input lag, mediocre black levels.
*BenQ v7050i *- A very good projector with excellent color, focus, HDR handling, input lag, and black levels. Just a hair dim for my tastes.
*LG HU85LA *- A solid projector, with a little too much laser speckle for my liking.
*Optoma P1 -* Bright, clean, relatively sharp image. Terrible HDR performance.
*Samsung LSP9T* - Low on list due to laser speckle. Outside of that, pretty much on par with L9G with better black levels.
*Epson LS500* - Hotspotting with periscope lens, focus was never quite right, creates a "digital look" and not quite "film level"
*Samsung LSP7T *- Dim with poor colors and a very sluggish OS.

Included a few photos, sorry for the mess. I may need to rethink my entire UST console solution here, lol.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Kev1000000 said:


> Alright, here are my first impressions of the LS800, after owning/trying the following projectors: Hisense L9G, LG HU85LA, Optoma P1, Samsung LSP9/7T, Benq v7050i, and the Epson LS500. Keep in mind, this is only after using the projector for about 8 hours this weekend.
> 
> 
> *Picture Quality*
> 
> This thing is a straight up light cannon. The 4,000 lumens is no joke, and the brightness is very well controlled, as contrast seemingly holds up well when brightness is cranked to the max. I mostly used the "Dynamic" video mode with some tweaks (lowered contrast, adjusted color temp, slight bump to saturation, reduced sharpness, etc).
> Colors, for a single laser UST, are quite vibrant and punchy. They don't quite match the 3-laser setups such as the L9G or Samsung LSP9T, but it gets somewhat close. In fact, I would argue the colors are more natural than the eye-seering reds I saw on the tri-laser units I've tried.
> The image is soooo incredibly smooth and clean. Having tried a few of the 3-laser setups, there is of course zero laser speckle here of any kind, and the overall image is sooo smooth and clean. No major hotspotting, even with the crazy brightness, no banding, no sharpness fringing (if you turn it down), no convergence issues, no RBE, nothing. Just a smooth, clean, and cinema-like image.
> Black levels are suprisingly good given the light cannon nature of this thing. I would still put the LSP9T ahead of the LS800 for black levels, but the LS800 has much better blacks than the L9G. In fact, the inter-scene contrast is handled very well, with candles and other bright areas of a scene really using the 4,000 lumens well, with the rest of the scene being quite dark. On some dark scenes, the darker areas did become more blue than pure black, but the top and bottom bars showed inky blacks, so I think it was either the movie or my video player potentially causing this.
> Focus... well, it's a problem on my unit. I've read a lot of things about this projector claiming the focus is tack sharp, but it's not on mine, and I can't get a uniform focus throughout the image. Worse, it shifts as the unit warms up. I am hoping this is just it breaking in and the focus drift will lessen over time, and I am still fiddling with the placement of the unit, but this could be a deal breaker for me, as I read a lot of text on my HTPC.
> The crazy throw ratio, while impressive, also has a major downside... even the smallest adjustments make huge shifts in the projected image. Having messed with a half dozen USTs at this point, I can confirm this was the most difficult to align correctly. I don't use software correction, so it took nearly an hour to get an alignment I was somewhat happy with to evaluate this projector, and it may be a factor in my focus issues, but this is simply not an easy projector to align without software correction.
> 
> *Other Things to Note*
> 
> As noted by others in the thread, the fan noise below ~70% is very quiet, but above 70% (where I believe this projector really shines), it's quite loud. Not LS500 level loud, but you can hear it. If you're actually watching content you won't notice it, but if it's in your living room and there isn't any content on, you'll hear it at brightness levels above 70%.
> Input Lag is very low, as advertised, but only on the dedicated GAME HDMI input. You can't enable gaming mode on any other input, so you're locked to low input lag based on INPUT and not settings. Since I use an HTPC for both watching content and playing games, this means I have to decide between low input lag or easy menu changes. What is seemingly odd is that changes you make to the projector's image settings with the Android OS apply to the GAME input, even dynamic contrast, adaptive gamma curves, etc. Those options are definitely still processing on the GAME input, but the projector disables access to the menu while running that input. So you can tweak picture options in the Android OS screens, then switch to the GAME input and they'll still apply. This is actually pretty awesome since you can kinda have the best of both worlds. There may be _some _picture options that don't work, but I haven't run across them yet.
> I really like that the remote has a dedicated laser brightness button. You can quickly adjust the laser output without diving into menus, and since the fan noise is tied to laser brightness, it makes it easy to lower it a bit if there is no content. I wish there was preset brightness modes though so I can have a quick single button to toggle the fan noise as silent or full brightness and audible.
> The projector starts up and turns off pretty quick. The turning on and actually displaying content takes a bit longer than I think it needs to (seems to hunt for a signal), but it's still just ~12 seconds, which isn't terrible.
> The lack of CMS isn't great, but I will say this projector required the least amount of tweaking out of the box (with the BenQ v7050i being another contender here). Most of the tweaks were just color temperature, sharpness, and other more subjective preferences than anything.
> Manual focus rings are not great. If you _finally _get the image nice and aligned, and then want to adjust focus, you have to take the right-hand side cover off and physically move the focus ring. This usually causes the alignment to move and is just annoying. I would much prefer a motorized focus approach. This is especially important if you use a specific UST console that tries and hides the unit. Or, give me a fixed focus lens like the L9G!
> 
> So yes, I've only had about 8 hours so far with this unit, but my first impressions with it are quite solid. It shoots a bright, punchy, and super clean image that maintains good black levels, brightness uniformity, and contrast. I wish the fan noise at higher brightness was less audible, and the focus issues are a big concern for me, but I will continue to eval those as I put more mileage on this unit.
> 
> In general, if I can figure out this focus issue, I will likely be keeping this unit. And that is definitely a strong point for the LS800, since I have experienced nearly all of its competition, sans the Formovie T1 or the recently released LG HU915Q.
> 
> For what it's worth, here is how I would order all of the projectors I have tried so far in terms of overall image quality:
> 
> *Epson LS800 *- My new top UST in terms of image quality. Super bright, great color, zero laser speckle, low input lag, good black levels, and just in general a very clean and punchy image. Focus is currently a problem, but I am hoping to resolve that with more alignment tweaks.
> *Hisense L9G *-My previous top candidate. Very bright, awesome color, minimal laser speckle (but still there), low input lag, mediocre black levels.
> *BenQ v7050i *- A very good projector with excellent color, focus, HDR handling, input lag, and black levels. Just a hair dim for my tastes.
> *LG HU85LA *- A solid projector, with a little too much laser speckle for my liking.
> *Optoma P1 -* Bright, clean, relatively sharp image. Terrible HDR performance.
> *Samsung LSP9T* - Low on list due to laser speckle. Outside of that, pretty much on par with L9G with better black levels.
> *Epson LS500* - Hotspotting with periscope lens, focus was never quite right, creates a "digital look" and not quite "film level"
> *Samsung LSP7T *- Dim with poor colors and a very sluggish OS.
> 
> Included a few photos, sorry for the mess. I may need to rethink my entire UST console solution here, lol.


Good write up. I leave the side cover off so I can easily access the focus slider. As previously stated I have ZERO ISSUES with the Focus on my LS800 . In fact the overall sharpness and clarity of the image is one of the things that surprised me . I expected it to be reasonably ok, buy not as good as the one chip DLP displays I currently have at home (XGIMI Horizon 4K Pro, DANGBEI 4K ). 
Well it matches them....last night I again compared the DANGBEI 4K Lazer DLP to the Epson L800. It was a Tie....Focus wise....now I do have the Reality Resolution control (not sure if that's the correct name) turned up slightly, so perhaps I am fooling myself, however I perceive no loss of fine detail and get excellent focus on the entire screen, including the corners.

Perhaps after you have dialed in the picture a bit more and play with the focus slider you will find that '"sweet" spot where everything clicks in...so to speak. 

As far as other visual parameters, between my compare last night with the Dangbei, it wasn't remotely close. The Epson LS800 was substantially better...contrast, colors, seamless clean fluid image....and ZERO RAINBOWS 🌈. 
CHEERS....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

One further thought....somewhat surprised you found the Samsung 9 UST to have better Black levels....I believe the Samsung measures somewhere around 2800 VERSUS close to 4000 for the Epson LS800...
Anyway, excellent write up....keep us posted on your marginal focus issues...Hopefully you will get better results....
Cheers...


----------



## kraine




----------



## theavguy4

Kev1000000 said:


> Alright, here are my first impressions of the LS800, after owning/trying the following projectors: Hisense L9G, LG HU85LA, Optoma P1, Samsung LSP9/7T, Benq v7050i, and the Epson LS500. Keep in mind, this is only after using the projector for about 8 hours this weekend.
> 
> 
> *Picture Quality*
> 
> This thing is a straight up light cannon. The 4,000 lumens is no joke, and the brightness is very well controlled, as contrast seemingly holds up well when brightness is cranked to the max. I mostly used the "Dynamic" video mode with some tweaks (lowered contrast, adjusted color temp, slight bump to saturation, reduced sharpness, etc).
> Colors, for a single laser UST, are quite vibrant and punchy. They don't quite match the 3-laser setups such as the L9G or Samsung LSP9T, but it gets somewhat close. In fact, I would argue the colors are more natural than the eye-seering reds I saw on the tri-laser units I've tried.
> The image is soooo incredibly smooth and clean. Having tried a few of the 3-laser setups, there is of course zero laser speckle here of any kind, and the overall image is sooo smooth and clean. No major hotspotting, even with the crazy brightness, no banding, no sharpness fringing (if you turn it down), no convergence issues, no RBE, nothing. Just a smooth, clean, and cinema-like image.
> Black levels are suprisingly good given the light cannon nature of this thing. I would still put the LSP9T ahead of the LS800 for black levels, but the LS800 has much better blacks than the L9G. In fact, the inter-scene contrast is handled very well, with candles and other bright areas of a scene really using the 4,000 lumens well, with the rest of the scene being quite dark. On some dark scenes, the darker areas did become more blue than pure black, but the top and bottom bars showed inky blacks, so I think it was either the movie or my video player potentially causing this.
> Focus... well, it's a problem on my unit. I've read a lot of things about this projector claiming the focus is tack sharp, but it's not on mine, and I can't get a uniform focus throughout the image. Worse, it shifts as the unit warms up. I am hoping this is just it breaking in and the focus drift will lessen over time, and I am still fiddling with the placement of the unit, but this could be a deal breaker for me, as I read a lot of text on my HTPC.
> The crazy throw ratio, while impressive, also has a major downside... even the smallest adjustments make huge shifts in the projected image. Having messed with a half dozen USTs at this point, I can confirm this was the most difficult to align correctly. I don't use software correction, so it took nearly an hour to get an alignment I was somewhat happy with to evaluate this projector, and it may be a factor in my focus issues, but this is simply not an easy projector to align without software correction.
> 
> *Other Things to Note*
> 
> As noted by others in the thread, the fan noise below ~70% is very quiet, but above 70% (where I believe this projector really shines), it's quite loud. Not LS500 level loud, but you can hear it. If you're actually watching content you won't notice it, but if it's in your living room and there isn't any content on, you'll hear it at brightness levels above 70%.
> Input Lag is very low, as advertised, but only on the dedicated GAME HDMI input. You can't enable gaming mode on any other input, so you're locked to low input lag based on INPUT and not settings. Since I use an HTPC for both watching content and playing games, this means I have to decide between low input lag or easy menu changes. What is seemingly odd is that changes you make to the projector's image settings with the Android OS apply to the GAME input, even dynamic contrast, adaptive gamma curves, etc. Those options are definitely still processing on the GAME input, but the projector disables access to the menu while running that input. So you can tweak picture options in the Android OS screens, then switch to the GAME input and they'll still apply. This is actually pretty awesome since you can kinda have the best of both worlds. There may be _some _picture options that don't work, but I haven't run across them yet.
> I really like that the remote has a dedicated laser brightness button. You can quickly adjust the laser output without diving into menus, and since the fan noise is tied to laser brightness, it makes it easy to lower it a bit if there is no content. I wish there was preset brightness modes though so I can have a quick single button to toggle the fan noise as silent or full brightness and audible.
> The projector starts up and turns off pretty quick. The turning on and actually displaying content takes a bit longer than I think it needs to (seems to hunt for a signal), but it's still just ~12 seconds, which isn't terrible.
> The lack of CMS isn't great, but I will say this projector required the least amount of tweaking out of the box (with the BenQ v7050i being another contender here). Most of the tweaks were just color temperature, sharpness, and other more subjective preferences than anything.
> Manual focus rings are not great. If you _finally _get the image nice and aligned, and then want to adjust focus, you have to take the right-hand side cover off and physically move the focus ring. This usually causes the alignment to move and is just annoying. I would much prefer a motorized focus approach. This is especially important if you use a specific UST console that tries and hides the unit. Or, give me a fixed focus lens like the L9G!
> 
> So yes, I've only had about 8 hours so far with this unit, but my first impressions with it are quite solid. It shoots a bright, punchy, and super clean image that maintains good black levels, brightness uniformity, and contrast. I wish the fan noise at higher brightness was less audible, and the focus issues are a big concern for me, but I will continue to eval those as I put more mileage on this unit.
> 
> In general, if I can figure out this focus issue, I will likely be keeping this unit. And that is definitely a strong point for the LS800, since I have experienced nearly all of its competition, sans the Formovie T1 or the recently released LG HU915Q.
> 
> For what it's worth, here is how I would order all of the projectors I have tried so far in terms of overall image quality:
> 
> *Epson LS800 *- My new top UST in terms of image quality. Super bright, great color, zero laser speckle, low input lag, good black levels, and just in general a very clean and punchy image. Focus is currently a problem, but I am hoping to resolve that with more alignment tweaks.
> *Hisense L9G *-My previous top candidate. Very bright, awesome color, minimal laser speckle (but still there), low input lag, mediocre black levels.
> *BenQ v7050i *- A very good projector with excellent color, focus, HDR handling, input lag, and black levels. Just a hair dim for my tastes.
> *LG HU85LA *- A solid projector, with a little too much laser speckle for my liking.
> *Optoma P1 -* Bright, clean, relatively sharp image. Terrible HDR performance.
> *Samsung LSP9T* - Low on list due to laser speckle. Outside of that, pretty much on par with L9G with better black levels.
> *Epson LS500* - Hotspotting with periscope lens, focus was never quite right, creates a "digital look" and not quite "film level"
> *Samsung LSP7T *- Dim with poor colors and a very sluggish OS.
> 
> Included a few photos, sorry for the mess. I may need to rethink my entire UST console solution here, lol.


Thanks for this write-up. What screen and size are you using? And with your media console, do you have ventilation issues with the unit in between two furniture pieces like that?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JDthird said:


> In your setup I'd be more interested in what it looked like with the blinds open or at least pivoted differently, since you have them tilted so all light can't go directly on the screen, and outside is only visible from standing in the back of the room. Looks good through either way.


I adjusted the blinds to allow more light into the room, unfortunately one of the section of blinds isn't adjustable ( it's broke).
Anyway here's a few pics.....
Cheers....


----------



## Kev1000000

theavguy4 said:


> Thanks for this write-up. What screen and size are you using? And with your media console, do you have ventilation issues with the unit in between two furniture pieces like that?


120". No ventilation issues, as it's actually pretty open. I need to figure out a good stand for the projector though.


----------



## JDthird

MRJAZZZ said:


> I adjusted the blinds to allow more light into the room, unfortunately one of the section of blinds isn't adjustable ( it's broke).
> Anyway here's a few pics.....
> Cheers....


Impressed with the screen. Definitely does better than my Elite. But I think I'm going to stick with my ALR. I had my Optoma UHD 60 for a couple years, has a whopping 56 hours on the bulb since I didn't use it much. I can black out my entire house with blackout cellular shades, so light isn't an issue, I just don't like to keep it dark to watch things, unless it's a movie at night and nature helps there too. This screen I just had delivered yesterday is amazing even with the room fully bright... I'll get a lot more use out of this projector than the last, simply for that one difference... Here's a couple shots of the old Elite white screen and the new Vividstorm ALR, both concurrent with the projector, in different lighting situations. The white screen I had did well in the dark, but not at all with light... Yours certainly holds up better there...


----------



## kraine

The test of the Epson LS800 is online. It's a Gold award for the image but some absences and design flaws make the Formovie Theater still the number 1 in the category in my opinion (argued in the test). The English version is in the second part.








Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K - Mondoprojos.fr


Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Newbie1963

Still waiting on ProjectorScreen’s Review


----------



## Dave Harper

Newbie1963 said:


> Still waiting on ProjectorScreen’s Review


It’s been turned in, so just awaiting publishing now.


----------



## JDthird

kraine said:


> The test of the Epson LS800 is online. It's a Gold award for the image but some absences and design flaws make the Formovie Theater still the number 1 in the category in my opinion (argued in the test). The English version is in the second part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Where is the LAN port you're referring to in the text? I can't find any ethernet port anywhere on mine nor in the instruction manual.


----------



## kraine

Sorry it's an optical out. I will correct it.


----------



## JDthird

kraine said:


> Sorry it's an optical out. I will correct it.


Ah! Thought that may have been what you were referring to, since initially I thought it might be an ethernet port as well. One of my disappointments in this model is the lack of wired ethernet now...


----------



## chiefpeon

kraine said:


> The test of the Epson LS800 is online. It's a Gold award for the image but some absences and design flaws make the Formovie Theater still the number 1 in the category in my opinion (argued in the test). The English version is in the second part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


I suspect that Epson chose to put it's input/connection block on the side due to the extremely short throw distance - some people would have very little space for cables or USB drives when paired with smaller screens. However, how that I have a good copy with with no stuck pixels, I'm really glad to see that you gave it the gold award!!


----------



## prr1

I just set my LS 800 up this weekend and it is lovely. Using the Spectra 100 inch screen from projectorscreens.com


----------



## JereyWolf

Does anyone have impressions yet on how it feels gaming at 1080p/120hz?
Is it similar to playing on a non-projector display?

@Kev1000000


----------



## prade

So…who really wins, Formovie Theater or the LS800, on picture quality? It seems like maybe the Formovie is more vivid than the LS800. But if RBE bothers you or your room requires a brighter projector, then the LS800 is a great alternative but not as vivid. Does anyone disagree or agree or have a different interpretation?

Any ideas on black level comparisons?


----------



## cec68

prr1 said:


> I just set my LS 800 up this weekend and it is lovely. Using the Spectra 100 inch screen from projectorscreens.com


Where is it set up? Living area or a dedicated movie environment? Would love to see some pics if you're able to take some.


----------



## kraine

prade said:


> So…who really wins, Formovie Theater or the LS800, on picture quality? It seems like maybe the Formovie is more vivid than the LS800. But if RBE bothers you or your room requires a brighter projector, then the LS800 is a great alternative but not as vivid. Does anyone disagree or agree or have a different interpretation?
> 
> Any ideas on black level comparisons?



Out ouf my conclusion of the LS800 review :

While the level of quality of its image is sparkling, I do have some reservations and renew my overall preference for Formovie Theater for several reasons: The LS800does not support Dolby Vision and HDR-10+ (dynamic metadata management), it reduces the number of colorimetry adjustment options which makes its fine calibration impossible, it does not have ALLM management and finally I come back to its red card namely the absurd location of its connector block. It seems to me useful to transmit all this to Epson in order once again to improve a possible future LS900 or any other reference .


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> Out ouf my conclusion of the LS800 review :
> 
> While the level of quality of its image is sparkling, I do have some reservations and renew my overall preference for Formovie Theater for several reasons: The LS800does not support Dolby Vision and HDR-10+ (dynamic metadata management), it reduces the number of colorimetry adjustment options which makes its fine calibration impossible, it does not have ALLM management and finally I come back to its red card namely the absurd location of its connector block. It seems to me useful to transmit all this to Epson in order once again to improve a possible future LS900 or any other reference .


"It's red card, namely the absurd location of It's connecter block ".....This is absurd?..Really?...

I actually find it easier to connect the power cord and my HDMI cable, from the side, otherwise I would have to "rotate" the entire projector to have acess to the "connecter block" .....also because of the extreme short throw distance of the LS800, if the connecter block were on the rear, where most other UST's are, the cables might actually be bumping into the wall, or cabinet, or the actual screen itself ( if using a floor rising screen)....especially with smaller screen sizes, (100 inches and less).

Anyway, thanks for your excellent report.
Cheers...


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Some recent pics....


----------



## Lion DD

JDthird said:


> Impressed with the screen. Definitely does better than my Elite. But I think I'm going to stick with my ALR. I had my Optoma UHD 60 for a couple years, has a whopping 56 hours on the bulb since I didn't use it much. I can black out my entire house with blackout cellular shades, so light isn't an issue, I just don't like to keep it dark to watch things, unless it's a movie at night and nature helps there too. This screen I just had delivered yesterday is amazing even with the room fully bright... I'll get a lot more use out of this projector than the last, simply for that one difference... Here's a couple shots of the old Elite white screen and the new Vividstorm ALR, both concurrent with the projector, in different lighting situations. The white screen I had did well in the dark, but not at all with light... Yours certainly holds up better there...
> View attachment 3350309
> View attachment 3350310
> View attachment 3350314
> 
> View attachment 3350312
> 
> View attachment 3350313
> 
> View attachment 3350311


Hi friend,Which brand of screen is the one on the front that rises from the bottom? I like it very much. In this comparison, the picture projected by it in the environment with the lights on is still very clear, and there is no very blurred feeling, and I don't like watching movies in a dark environment. This screen is really great! I really want. Also what projector are you using?


----------



## kraine

MRJAZZZ said:


> "It's red card, namely the absurd location of It's connecter block ".....This is absurd?..Really?...
> 
> I actually find it easier to connect the power cord and my HDMI cable, from the side, otherwise I would have to "rotate" the entire projector to have acess to the "connecter block" .....also because of the extreme short throw distance of the LS800, if the connecter block were on the rear, where most other UST's are, the cables might actually be bumping into the wall, or cabinet, or the actual screen itself ( if using a floor rising screen)....especially with smaller screen sizes, (100 inches and less).
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your excellent report.
> Cheers...


When I talk about absurdity for the configuration of the plugs it is mainly because they are too deep under the edge of the hull. I've had trouble connecting cables before with my slender hands. I don't want to think about those who have big hands!
I had to test the majority of the UST offer available and with this experience I can conclude that the choice of the Epson engineers is anything but ergonomic.


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> When I talk about absurdity for the configuration of the plugs it is mainly because they are too deep under the edge of the hull. I've had trouble connecting cables before with my slender hands. I don't want to think about those who have big hands!
> I had to test the majority of the UST offer available and with this experience I can conclude that the choice of the Epson engineers is anything but ergonomic.


Sony made the same choice for their last UST VPL-VZ1000ES in 2018 and I think it's clever :


----------



## kraine

It just has nothing to do with it, the Sony version is much less recessed in the shell than the Epson one and the access is very easy. Here is the LS800.


----------



## swirvin704

MRJAZZZ said:


> Some recent pics....
> View attachment 3350945
> 
> View attachment 3350943
> 
> View attachment 3350942
> 
> View attachment 3350940
> 
> View attachment 3350938
> 
> View attachment 3350944
> 
> View attachment 3350941
> 
> View attachment 3350939


These images look great. Can you list your picture settings you’re using during night time watching ? I haven’t really played with any adjustments. Just been using the cinema preset at night time. Do you manually adjust HDR settings when watching HDR content?


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> It just has nothing to do with it, the Sony version is much less recessed in the shell than the Epson one and the access is very easy. Here is the LS800.


It has nothing to do with it ?

Seriously it is exactly the same. Yes it is more recessed but maybe because I can imagine how you have to turn/curb the HDMI cables on the Sony because of the little space available between the cover and the inputs. In that case Epson design is maybe even more clever than Sony.

And yes as someone said the probably design the LS800 like this because with the smaller size you have only 2.8 centimeters available between the LS800 and the screen. Impossible to have inputs on the back.

I can understand that this is not what you like but to say « red card » for this it is a little too much, isn’t it ?

At last there is a brand which take seriously the « ultra short throw » definition no you can’t complain that because of the space available at the back they had to place the input on the side.


----------



## kraine

Contrary to you, my remarks are based on concrete experiences of connections with the LS800. It was a pain unlike its competitors.


----------



## Trysoft

kraine said:


> Contrary to you, my remarks are based on concrete experiences of connections with the LS800. It was a pain unlike its competitors.


I picked mine up, turned it sideways, plugged all the stuff in, put it back in place, then calibrated it. Maybe a couple minutes? Pretty sure setting up the screen (or a tv wall mount for comparison) takes me orders of magnitude longer.

A lot of us are gonna set it up once ever, or have quite a bit of experience wiring equipment. I mean, my far more expensive sound system has raw electrical connections and I had to strip ~172 wires til my thumbs bled to interconnect it. Epson isn’t risking my business on difficulty of plugging in two hdmi connectors. Can always get L adapters if we want a right angle sending cables backward. And then customers who are just putting it in a living room console probably don’t care to change their inputs too often. More important to hide cable mess and minimize ugliness.

I for one am a fan because ls800 allows for the minimal size cabinet/console (including depth) of any competitor and it’s depth works well with my existing audio rack and console depths. Would take some real mechanical goofiness to accomplish the same space efficiency with even easier access to ports. That sounds like a higher price tag and therefor waste of my money 

ps - I have ls800 as my fifth projector so feel comfortable saying this


----------



## JDthird

Lion DD said:


> Hi friend,Which brand of screen is the one on the front that rises from the bottom? I like it very much. In this comparison, the picture projected by it in the environment with the lights on is still very clear, and there is no very blurred feeling, and I don't like watching movies in a dark environment. This screen is really great! I really want. Also what projector are you using?


It's the Vividstorm S Pro 120 with the Epson LS800. Epson is pretty much left at default settings at this point, but I do think I upped the brightness from 50 to about 70 to test it in the daylight. I was more busy up to this point figuring out what to do with a screen instead of dealing with picture quality.


----------



## JDthird

kraine said:


> Contrary to you, my remarks are based on concrete experiences of connections with the LS800. It was a pain unlike its competitors.


Was not at all a pain for me either. As others have said, if it was not recessed at all we'd be dealing with people complaining that there wasn't enough room between the ports and the cover to use cables other than right angle ones. That space is needed to let the cables have some room to bend towards the rear exit space. But everyone has their own red flag issues that trigger something in them to like or not like something. To each his own. This is why there are many options out there in the world for products.


----------



## kraine

We can add to the list of my red flags: the manual focus ring, the lack of CMS, the lack of fine tuning of the color temperature. 

As for the size, it is not really a featherweight compared to more compact models like the Formovie Theater (which has a CMS, a Gain and Bias control and an electric focus ).


----------



## JDthird

kraine said:


> We can add to the list of my red flags: the manual focus ring, the lack of CMS, the lack of fine tuning of the color temperature.
> 
> As for the size, it is not really a featherweight compared to more compact models like the Formovie Theater (which has a CMS, a Gain and Bias control and an electric focus ).


Dude, take a chill pill. Do you think people are attacking you personally? Didn't realize your opinions were the only ones that counted, and I'll apologize for the rest of the forum...


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> We can add to the list of my red flags: the manual focus ring, the lack of CMS, the lack of fine tuning of the color temperature.
> 
> As for the size, it is not really a featherweight compared to more compact models like the Formovie Theater (which has a CMS, a Gain and Bias control and an electric focus ).


I totally agree on the lack of CMS and lack of tuning of the color temperature which is not a limitation of Android because it’s available on the Formovie. Epson made a bad decisions on these.

On the contrary I think the manual focus ring is a good thing. Once more the focus does not have to be change every day. The electric focus on the Formovie Theater is maybe the thing I dislike on the Formovie. You can’t click to be accurate. You have to keep pushing on the button so it can’t be done accurately.


----------



## muhur

What is the vertical offset of this Projector? EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Projectors | Products | Epson Europe lists 1:7, however, I do not understand its meaning. I would like to know it to buy a matching lowboard.


----------



## Dave Harper

JDthird said:


> Dude, take a chill pill. Do you think people are attacking you personally? Didn't realize your opinions were the only ones that counted, and I'll apologize for the rest of the forum...


Seems you’re the more upset one who took his factual post of statements too personal. He didn’t invalidate anyone else’s opinion on those subjects in that or any other statement regarding those points. 

I agree on all his counts. They’re factually true. Does that make me defensive for saying so?


----------



## JDthird

Sonny Red said:


> I totally agree on the lack of CMS and lack of tuning of the color temperature which is not a limitation of Android because it’s available on the Formovie. Epson made a bad decisions on these.
> 
> On the contrary I think the manual focus ring is a good thing. Once more the focus does not have to be change every day. The electric focus on the Formovie Theater is maybe the thing I dislike on the Formovie. You can’t click to be accurate. You have to keep pushing on the button so it can’t be done accurately.


For me the focus ring's issue was that I wished it had a bit more granular control - I'd prefer something geared so that you can get some fine tuning easier than you get with the slider.


----------



## JDthird

Dave Harper said:


> Seems you’re the more upset one who took his factual post of statements too personal. He didn’t invalidate anyone else’s opinion on those subjects in that or any other statement regarding those points.
> 
> I agree on all his counts. They’re factually true. Does that make me defensive for saying so?


LOL hardly. He just was getting overly sensitive about other people saying they didn't think the port layout was an ACTUAL red flag issue. It's hardly as critical a point as the other issues and things this Epson lacks. Like saying that I'm not a fan that my sports car has tires that can only be at 38 PSI, and making that a big issue, while ignoring the fact that it's a rubber band for an engine.


----------



## Kev1000000

Does anyone else have focus issues? It's the single biggest thing holding me back from _loving _this projector, with the fan noise at 100% brightness being another notable exception. I am trying to figure out if it's just my unit or the LS800 in general. Can someone take a photo of text on their projector in the corners? And is the focus uniform throughout?


----------



## JDthird

When you ask for text, what kind of text? Like subtitles and such from a movie, things from a webpage, or say a computer's desktop icons at 4k? Because I can get really crisp and clear text on pretty much everything else, but the desktop from my media center I just can't get it to look as good as I'd wish.


----------



## Kev1000000

Yeah, PC text in icons, text in web sites, etc.


----------



## JDthird

Kev1000000 said:


> Yeah, PC text in icons, text in web sites, etc.


I'm at the office now, later this afternoon I can try to get you some examples of various text and such from various sources.


----------



## kraine

While I agree that the Formovie Theater is not the sharpest DLP UST 4K projector, it is still superior to a triple LCD with 4K simulation like the Epson LS800. I purposely focused on the upper left side of the Formovie for this comparison.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

swirvin704 said:


> These images look great. Can you list your picture settings you’re using during night time watching ? I haven’t really played with any adjustments. Just been using the cinema preset at night time. Do you manually adjust HDR settings when watching HDR content?


COLOR MODE: CINEMA
COLOR TEMPERATURE: 9
NOISE REDUCTION: STANDARD 
SUPER RESOLUTION: 6
AUTO CONTRAST ENH: 8
DYNAMIC CONTRAST: HIGH 
SCENE ADAPTIVE GAMMA:10
FRAME INTERPOLATION: OFF

CUSTOM SETTINGS: 
BRIGHTNESS: 50
CONTRAST: 52
SATURATION:53
TINT: 50
SHARPNESS: 7

HDR: Not using HDR. Running Apple ATV4 set to SDR. I briefly tried HDR, and while the L800 has the " horsepower" ( Lumens) to allow for good HDR performance, I prefer the extra brightness that SDR allows. I will revisit this, as I really didn't spend much time with HDR.....yet.
I had the same reaction when I was using my Formovie Global T1....much preferred SDR over the darker looking Dolby Vision and HDR. I didn't try an HD Fury device and from I have read that can make a substantial difference. 

Cheers...


----------



## Gwreck

Kev1000000 said:


> Does anyone else have focus issues? It's the single biggest thing holding me back from _loving _this projector, with the fan noise at 100% brightness being another notable exception. I am trying to figure out if it's just my unit or the LS800 in general. Can someone take a photo of text on their projector in the corners? And is the focus uniform throughout?


My experience has been that it is much easier to focus than the ls500 it replaces. I have been happy with the focus and the unit overall.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Some recent pictures from tonight....


----------



## rjyap

Sonny Red said:


> I totally agree on the lack of CMS and lack of tuning of the color temperature which is not a limitation of Android because it’s available on the Formovie. Epson made a bad decisions on these.
> 
> On the contrary I think the manual focus ring is a good thing. Once more the focus does not have to be change every day. The electric focus on the Formovie Theater is maybe the thing I dislike on the Formovie. You can’t click to be accurate. You have to keep pushing on the button so it can’t be done accurately.


Yep. I prefer manual focus ring too as I don't like Formovie Theater focus screen. Very hard to dial in precisely and I prefer my own test pattern.


----------



## tjsadler

leo0111127 said:


> Based on Epson's pevious models, they use the ISO21118 lumen not the ANSI lumen. The 4000 ISO21118 lumen means 3200 ANSI lumen.
> Brain needs to find it out.


I noticed this comment while researching this projector. I looked into it a bit more as my brain won't leave questions like this unanswered. It seems that Epson has used the ISO 21118 measurement for some time now ( Philips and Epson Agree to ANSI Equivalent For Future Projector Specs ) and most of us haven't even noticed. If you look at their site the small print on all their ratings, like for the LS11000/12000 also state ISO21118. It's actually just a slightly more internationally uniform version of the ANSI test. While the ANSI seems to be based off of an average of a small number of units' measurements (or even just one unit as is the case in most reviews), the ISO 21118 is a similar test using an average of a greater number of production samples. The bottom line seems to be that they should be pretty much equivalent. ISO 21118 should actually be more closely representative of what to expect from your unit since it averages samples from more units.
I've seen the math used in the quote above in a couple spots. There's only one place I could find a mathematical equivalent which was projector1.com which states that the ratio between ISO21118 and ANSI is 1:0.8 which would actually mean the reverse of the statement above. 4000 ISO 21118 lumens would be 5000 ANSI using that formula. That being said, I don't know where they're coming up with a 1:0.8 ratio. There doesn't seem to be any real basis for it and based on the actual documents they should be roughly 1:1 with the only real difference being that ANSI is based on a smaller sample size than ISO21118. Maybe @ProjectionHead or @Dave Harper or @PixelPusher15 could weigh in if I'm misunderstanding the spec documents.


----------



## ProjectionHead

tjsadler said:


> I noticed this comment while researching this projector. I looked into it a bit more as my brain won't leave questions like this unanswered. It seems that Epson has used the ISO 21118 measurement for some time now ( Philips and Epson Agree to ANSI Equivalent For Future Projector Specs ) and most of us haven't even noticed. If you look at their site the small print on all their ratings, like for the LS11000/12000 also state ISO21118. It's actually just a slightly more internationally uniform version of the ANSI test. While the ANSI seems to be based off of an average of a small number of units' measurements (or even just one unit as is the case in most reviews), the ISO 21118 is a similar test using an average of a greater number of production samples. The bottom line seems to be that they should be pretty much equivalent. ISO 21118 should actually be more closely representative of what to expect from your unit since it averages samples from more units.
> I've seen the math used in the quote above in a couple spots. There's only one place I could find a mathematical equivalent which was projector1.com which states that the ratio between ISO21118 and ANSI is 1:0.8 which would actually mean the reverse of the statement above. 4000 ISO 21118 lumens would be 5000 ANSI using that formula. That being said, I don't know where they're coming up with a 1:0.8 ratio. There doesn't seem to be any real basis for it and based on the actual documents they should be roughly 1:1 with the only real difference being that ANSI is based on a smaller sample size than ISO21118. Maybe @ProjectionHead or @Dave Harper or @PixelPusher15 could weigh in if I'm misunderstanding the spec documents.


@Dave Harper is taking brightness measurements and will be included in the pending review to be published.
Even with ANSI lumens, appearently it is acceptable/compliant for there to be up to a 20% variance due to testing equipment, so a company advertising 1,000 ANSI lumens that is replicated at 800+ lumens is “kosher” by ANSI standards.


----------



## gr7383448

Guys does this have an option for split screen? Also if anyone had an optoma p1 then is this projecter upgrade a big step up? Iam not a big gamer, just play games like madden, stream cable, or watch movies. Thanks


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

kraine said:


> While I agree that the Formovie Theater is not the sharpest DLP UST 4K projector, it is still superior to a triple LCD with 4K simulation like the Epson LS800. I purposely focused on the upper left side of the Formovie for this comparison.


 Really interested in seeing the inevitable comparison between these two, this sharpness test is eye opening and definitely a point against the LS800. I'm leaning back and forth between them and closer to the formovie at this point.


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> @Dave Harper is taking brightness measurements and will be included in the pending review to be published.
> Even with ANSI lumens, appearently it is acceptable/compliant for there to be up to a 20% variance due to testing equipment, so a company advertising 1,000 ANSI lumens that is replicated at 800+ lumens is “kosher” by ANSI standards.


I have seen posts comparing the two and the values range where ISO = 1.2-0.8 ANSI. The ISO standard seems a bit more robust from a statistical analysis viewpoint. IE: you are more likely to get a projector that is close to the ISO output than the ANSI. 

Can’t wait for the publishers to finalize the review!


----------



## JDthird

Kev1000000 said:


> Yeah, PC text in icons, text in web sites, etc.


Don't have a webpage but I do have a couple shots showing various things - the text from the on screen menus that looks OK, and the text from a desktop on a PC at 4k that does NOT...


----------



## mcollin6

FYI - Got an email for AWOL. They are now selling a 150” UST ALR Screen using lenticular material. Not sure who they got the material from, but it seems like larger screens are on the horizon.

@ProjectionHead are you guys going to carry it since you sell AWOL projectors?









100''-150'' ALR Cinematic Screens


WHY ALR SCREEN? Paired with a high quality UST ALR screen can obviously improve your viewing experience of a UST laser projector. Its highly reflective projection surface enhances brightness and contrast while countering the washout effect of ambient light. It is perfect for rooms with ambient...




awolvision.com


----------



## Kev1000000

JDthird said:


> Don't have a webpage but I do have a couple shots showing various things - the text from the on screen menus that looks OK, and the text from a desktop on a PC at 4k that does NOT...
> 
> View attachment 3351939
> View attachment 3351940


Oh man, while not exactly sharp, it's at least super uniform throughout. Mine isn't =( This is very helpful, thank you!


----------



## rjyap

JDthird said:


> Don't have a webpage but I do have a couple shots showing various things - the text from the on screen menus that looks OK, and the text from a desktop on a PC at 4k that does NOT...
> 
> View attachment 3351939
> View attachment 3351940


Does the unit do 4x shifting or 2x shifting for 4K? Here’s the desktop text taken on T1 using XPR 4x shift. Text looks pretty sharp for faux 4K.


----------



## JDthird

And for any gamers out there wondering about text along the sides and top, here's a quick shot as well from my PS5.


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> Does the unit do 4x shifting or 2x shifting for 4K? Here’s the desktop text taken on T1 using XPR 4x shift. Text looks pretty sharp for faux 4K.
> View attachment 3352036


LS800 is 2X shifting.


----------



## 1nquisitive

rjyap said:


> Does the unit do 4x shifting or 2x shifting for 4K? Here’s the desktop text taken on T1 using XPR 4x shift. Text looks pretty sharp for faux 4K.
> View attachment 3352036


The LS800 is only 2x shift, unfortunately. 

Refer to Note 1 at the link:








EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Projectors | Products | Epson United Kingdom


The big screen experience Feel immersed in everything you watch or play with this stylish and affordable 4K PRO-UHD1 projector which can produce up to a 150 image placed close to the wall. For great gaming - try our new gaming mode with an under 20ms input lag time. Smart home entertainment...




www.epson.co.uk


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

rjyap said:


> Does the unit do 4x shifting or 2x shifting for 4K? Here’s the desktop text taken on T1 using XPR 4x shift. Text looks pretty sharp for faux 4K.
> View attachment 3352036


Wow that's a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Guess that's the nail in the coffin for the LS800 can't be watching thinking I'm missing detail the whole time.


----------



## MOLTOV

mcollin6 said:


> FYI - Got an email for AWOL. They are now selling a 150” UST ALR Screen using lenticular material. Not sure who they got the material from, but it seems like larger screens are on the horizon.
> 
> @ProjectionHead are you guys going to carry it since you sell AWOL projectors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100''-150'' ALR Cinematic Screens
> 
> 
> WHY ALR SCREEN? Paired with a high quality UST ALR screen can obviously improve your viewing experience of a UST laser projector. Its highly reflective projection surface enhances brightness and contrast while countering the washout effect of ambient light. It is perfect for rooms with ambient...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awolvision.com


I had suspected that spectra might have been the OEM for the AWOL screens. The timing of this and pricing seems to support that theory.


----------



## ProjectionHead

<<delete>> - duplicate post


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> FYI - Got an email for AWOL. They are now selling a 150” UST ALR Screen using lenticular material. Not sure who they got the material from, but it seems like larger screens are on the horizon.
> 
> @ProjectionHead are you guys going to carry it since you sell AWOL projectors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100''-150'' ALR Cinematic Screens
> 
> 
> WHY ALR SCREEN? Paired with a high quality UST ALR screen can obviously improve your viewing experience of a UST laser projector. Its highly reflective projection surface enhances brightness and contrast while countering the washout effect of ambient light. It is perfect for rooms with ambient...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awolvision.com


I just spoke with AWOL as this was news to me that it was available for sale. They had told me previously that this would not be available until at earliest Feb 2023. They just confirmed that again on the phone that there is a min 60 day lead time on this and that they do not have stock (despite what website says) and that this is a "test" to see how many orders they can get before they actually go into production.

They wouldn't even confirm if it was the exact same surface as their 100"/120" and there are no samples that they can send me.

Perhaps we will carry it in the future, when it becomes a real product.


----------



## JereyWolf

JDthird said:


> And for any gamers out there wondering about text along the sides and top, here's a quick shot as well from my PS5.
> 
> View attachment 3352059


Have you tested out 1080p/120hz? I feel like this might be one of the best features on this projector...at least for gamers.


----------



## slowgraffiti

Just read on techradar that the game "input is a “special” HDMI port that bypasses the projector’s video processing circuits to enable under-20ms latency when gaming, according to an Epson rep [they] spoke with at IFA."

Does this mean I shouldn't plug av amp into game port 'cause it would only be good for games and not film? Do I need some sort of hdmi splitter to go into hdmi 2 and 3 and switch over when I move to ps5?

My Projector is finally in stock tomorrow, and I can fetch on Saturday so would be good to know if I need to buy more stuff... 

how are others with ps5 and recievers connecting?


----------



## JDthird

slowgraffiti said:


> Just read on techradar that the game "input is a “special” HDMI port that bypasses the projector’s video processing circuits to enable under-20ms latency when gaming, according to an Epson rep [they] spoke with at IFA."
> 
> Does this mean I shouldn't plug av amp into game port 'cause it would only be good for games and not film? Do I need some sort of hdmi splitter to go into hdmi 2 and 3 and switch over when I move to ps5?
> 
> My Projector is finally in stock tomorrow, and I can fetch on Saturday so would be good to know if I need to buy more stuff...
> 
> how are others with ps5 and recievers connecting?


I have a new Yamaha RX receiver. Through that I have an Xbox Series X, my PS5, a Nintendo Switch, a Sony UHD disc player, an Apple TV 4k, and an NVR for my security system. Everything goes into the game input and I've had no issues. I'm not a huge videophile though, so if there's some granular stuff I can't do I'm certainly not missing it. I started out in HDMI1 with everything but changed to HDMI 3 for the gaming options since I _DID_ notice the lag on the other port. But I've not noticed anything I'm missing now that is giving me less visual results for watching movies and such.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> LS800 is 2X shifting.


Then that could explain why the text is not sharp in 4K. True 4K > 4x shifting 1080p > 2x shifting 1080p in details of 4K image.


----------



## JDthird

rjyap said:


> Then that could explain why the text is not sharp in 4K. True 4K > 4x shifting 1080p > 2x shifting 1080p in details of 4K image.


My text looked the same when I first was setting it all up using the other input. This was not any degredation due to the use of the game port.

Oops, sorry, saw you were replying to someone else's post.


----------



## leo0111127

kraine said:


> While I agree that the Formovie Theater is not the sharpest DLP UST 4K projector, it is still superior to a triple LCD with 4K simulation like the Epson LS800. I purposely focused on the upper left side of the Formovie for this comparison.


DLP based projector has a natural clarity advantage compared to LCD one.
It's interested that EPSON LS800 used the best F number 1.8 lens evev better than AWOL's F number 2.0 lens, but the EPSON's final sharpness is not much better than the formovie theatre with F number 3.2 and poor sharpness performance.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

leo0111127 said:


> DLP based projector has a natural clarity advantage compared to LCD one.
> It's interested that EPSON LS800 used the best F number 1.8 lens evev better than AWOL's F number 2.0 lens, but the EPSON's final sharpness is not much better than the formovie theatre with F number 3.2 and poor sharpness performance.


I don't know if this is right but in photography you get better sharpness with a higher f-stop. It's common to stop down from 1.8 to 2.8 just to keep the image from being too soft. You would get more light being let in with a 1.8 lens vs 3.2 though as it's almost twice as fast. 

It seems like in this case it has more to do with the pixel-shift being 4x on the FM vs 2x on the Epson, which (is it technically 4k vs 2k?).


----------



## slowgraffiti

JDthird said:


> I have a new Yamaha RX receiver. Through that I have an Xbox Series X, my PS5, a Nintendo Switch, a Sony UHD disc player, an Apple TV 4k, and an NVR for my security system.  Everything goes into the game input and I've had no issues. I'm not a huge videophile though, so if there's some granular stuff I can't do I'm certainly not missing it. I started out in HDMI1 with everything but changed to HDMI 3 for the gaming options since I _DID_ notice the lag on the other port. But I've not noticed anything I'm missing now that is giving me less visual results for watching movies and such.


Okay excellent, I think I'll give this a try first then if picture not noticeably different. Thank you


----------



## muhur

JDthird said:


> Is this what you're looking for?
> View attachment 3350028


Where did you find this? Thank you.


----------



## JereyWolf

muhur said:


> What is the vertical offset of this Projector? EH-LS800B | Home Cinema | Projectors | Products | Epson Europe lists 1:7, however, I do not understand its meaning. I would like to know it to buy a matching lowboard.


This is from the manual, which can be found here: EH-LS800B Support | Epson Europe


----------



## JereyWolf

There's also a really nice html version of the manual here:


LS800BATV/LS800WATV User's Guide


----------



## Winters93

Nevertheless, it is very surprising that there is still only one review worldwide.


----------



## swerlin1

I find it odd to that only one review is out there and 20 that used Epsons marketing material. Since day one; ive been trying to get a price for the pj/screen combo that they mentioned and have yet to get a confirmation from AVS of the discount. Heck, Dave Harper said he turned in his review weeks ago and yet nothing.


----------



## Newbie1963

swerlin1 said:


> I find it odd to that only one review is out there and 20 that used Epsons marketing material. Since day one; ive been trying to get a price for the pj/screen combo that they mentioned and have yet to get a confirmation from AVS of the discount. Heck, Dave Harper said he turned in his review weeks ago and yet nothing.



Projector head said Dave was still doing Lumens test yesterday.


----------



## Dave Harper

Just updated those a few hours ago.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Some recent pictures....


----------



## JereyWolf

JDthird said:


> Don't have a webpage but I do have a couple shots showing various things - the text from the on screen menus that looks OK, and the text from a desktop on a PC at 4k that does NOT...
> 
> View attachment 3351939
> View attachment 3351940


Can you confirm the blurry text from PC is not a chroma subsampling problem?
Can you force 4:4:4 from your GPU?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Has anyone tried using a HD FURY device with the L800, and if so any improvements noted ?


----------



## JereyWolf

kraine said:


> Tic, tac, tic, tac…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EPSON EH-LS800 réception du projecteur laser à ultra courte focale pour un futur test - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> TEST EPSON EH-LS800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Thank you for the in-depth review. 
I have a question about this chart:
The "dynamic" mode is warmer in color temp and much brighter than the "vivid" mode, was that surprising to you?
Do you suspect that dynamic mode has a hidden contrast enhancing feature that allowed it to measure so much higher than all of the other settings?








Image credit:


https://www.mondoprojos.fr/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Contraste-luminosite-Gamma-EPSON-EH-LS800W.jpg










Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K - Mondoprojos.fr


Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Gwreck

MRJAZZZ said:


> Has anyone tried using a HD FURY device with the L800, and if so any improvements noted ?


I have the HDFury Arcana and am using the same setting I used for the ls500 and it seems to handle tone mapping really well. I force my appletv 4k for DV for all output and it looks great. None of the highlights ever looked blown out. The other night I was looking at the Spears and Muncil disc at the demo content and it all looked good and it seemed that the 4k and 10k lumen stuff looked better than anything though.I’m waiting to be deliver the hdfury vrooom for more control. 

The one (2)thing I don’t understand on the projector is what the full vs limited color control does. It’s clear that the auto setting sometimes looked over or under saturated depending on the content(internal or external content). Also on the built in apps the HDR slider seems to do nothing.


----------



## Newbie1963

Gwreck said:


> I have the HDFury Arcana and am using the same setting I used for the ls500 and it seems to handle tone mapping really well. I force my appletv 4k for DV for all output and it looks great. None of the highlights ever looked blown out. The other night I was looking at the Spears and Muncil disc at the demo content and it all looked good and it seemed that the 4k and 10k lumen stuff looked better than anything though.I’m waiting to be deliver the hdfury vrooom for more control.
> 
> The one (2)thing I don’t understand on the projector is what the full vs limited color control does. It’s clear that the auto setting sometimes looked over or under saturated depending on the content(internal or external content). Also on the built in apps the HDR slider seems to do nothing.




I have a Roku, would I go from the Roku to the HDFury to my my AVR and then to the Projector? Would I be able to use DV on the Epson LS800 this way?


----------



## Gwreck

I oa


Newbie1963 said:


> I have a Roku, would I go from the Roku to the HDFury to my my AVR and then to the Projector? Would I be able to use DV on the Epson LS800 this way?


that would work, I use mine between my avr and projector.


----------



## JereyWolf

Has anyone here been able to test 120hz?


----------



## Winters93

In Germany there's the Epson for 2400 euros with the IFA discount. I think at the price you can't go wrong?
Especially if you like brightness to look during the day and favor a good input lag.


----------



## mirzank

Winters93 said:


> In Germany there's the Epson for 2400 euros with the IFA discount. I think at the price you can't go wrong?
> Especially if you like brightness to look during the day and favor a good input lag.


Where are you seeing that price ?


----------



## scsi100

Geben Sie den Gutscheincode ein: IFA2022


----------



## Odysea

scsi100 said:


> Geben Sie den Gutscheincode ein: IFA2022


You need to ship it to a Germany address however. So it may not be too useful for others outside Germany.


----------



## 1NT0_darkness

The offer was shut down a few weeks ago due to high demand as explained near the page end.

"Due to the great demand and the very limited availability, we unfortunately have to end our offer for IFA visitors early.

Thank you for your understanding"

epson.de


----------



## Gwreck

1NT0_darkness said:


> The offer was shut down a few weeks ago due to high demand as explained near the page end.
> 
> "Due to the great demand and the very limited availability, we unfortunately have to end our offer for IFA visitors early.
> 
> Thank you for your understanding"
> 
> epson.de


I can see why they had demand issues as that is a steal.


----------



## Clementin0

The offer is still available on their website though – the coupon code works during checkout. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sevyor

Hello everyone,
Projectorscreen's review is here !!! 








Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Ultra Short Throw Projector Review


The Epson LS800 features the latest cutting-edge UST technology. See what our projection experts thought of this brand new ultra short throw projector in our Epson LS800 review. {Spoiler Alert!} It's absolutely fantastic!




www.projectorscreen.com


----------



## Ian H

Has there been a comparison of the Epson LS800 and the Formovie Theatre ultra short throw projectors ?

if there has been can someone share the link to it please.

Thanks


----------



## PixelPusher15

Ian H said:


> Has there been a comparison of the Epson LS800 and the Formovie Theatre ultra short throw projectors ?
> 
> if there has been can someone share the link to it please.
> 
> Thanks


I’ve got both in for review right now but it’s gobs be a bit before I have reviews. How’s your patience? (I also have my own 5050 for comparison)


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Sevyor said:


> Hello everyone,
> Projectorscreen's review is here !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Ultra Short Throw Projector Review
> 
> 
> The Epson LS800 features the latest cutting-edge UST technology. See what our projection experts thought of this brand new ultra short throw projector in our Epson LS800 review. {Spoiler Alert!} It's absolutely fantastic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com


Excellent and very thorough write up....


----------



## Brajesh

Agree, excellent review. There's a lot to like about this UST, but it seems a miss on several counts: lacks of 3D given its brightness, 2x vs 4x pixel shifting, no DV or HDR10+ and no advanced picture controls. Seems like previously unknown brands (Fengmi, AWOL) are seriously overtaking the usual name brands like Epson, LG & Samsung.


----------



## rjyap

PixelPusher15 said:


> I’ve got both in for review right now but it’s gobs be a bit before I have reviews. How’s your patience? (I also have my own 5050 for comparison)


Great. A comparison with 5050 would be useful too. Also, can you display desktop text from Windows OS in 4K on all projector? Would like to see if Epson 2x shifting in 5050 able to display the text without issue.









Epson EH-LS800B/W Super UST LCD Projectors


Some recent pictures from tonight....




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Man really is a tough comparison when you put it up next to the FM. Biggest concerns are the sharpness lost at 2x vs 4x, and the colors lost with lack of DV/HDR10+. But the 3LCD and extra 1000 lumens of brightness might be enough to sway me to the LS800. Need to see them side by side to really know.


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> Has anyone tried using a HD FURY device with the L800, and if so any improvements noted ?


I’ve done a little testing with it with great results so far. My thoughts mirror the other responder to this question. 

One interesting find I saw when I sent the video signal through the HDFury Vertex2 was that apparently they’re working on or worked on supporting DV/LLDV based on the native GUI message that popped up:













Ian H said:


> Has there been a comparison of the Epson LS800 and the Formovie Theatre ultra short throw projectors ?
> 
> if there has been can someone share the link to it please.
> 
> Thanks









MRJAZZZ said:


> Excellent and very thorough write up....


Why thanks!


----------



## Trysoft

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve done a little testing with it with great results so far. My thoughts mirror the other responder to this question.
> 
> One interesting find I saw when I sent the video signal through the HDFury Vertex2 was that apparently they’re working on or worked on supporting DV/LLDV based on the native GUI message that popped up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why thanks!


Love the review and comparisons! 3:58 and 4:44 really demonstrate well a difference I noticed between my new Ls800 and prior projector. To my eyes the Ls800 is so much sharper on the dark scenes with fine detail or vivid color, especially watching those frame by frame. Compression artifacts make it hard for me to know if the video is representative of real world. But I used pilot episode of The Expanse side by side with my old projector in real life and 3:58-4:18 is all very representative of Ls800 comparative strengths at daytime for some of my favorite shows.


----------



## JimBob1971

Clementin0 said:


> The offer is still available on their website though – the coupon code works during checkout.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not in the UK. Which site were you using?


----------



## swirvin704

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve done a little testing with it with great results so far. My thoughts mirror the other responder to this question.
> 
> One interesting find I saw when I sent the video signal through the HDFury Vertex2 was that apparently they’re working on or worked on supporting DV/LLDV based on the native GUI message that popped up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why thanks!


Thanks for the detailed review! Dave what’s your opinion on the HU915QB. It’s it worth the price difference for a dedicated room with light control VS the Epson LS800. I always try to buy once , cry once. I’m 19days from moving into new home. I still don’t have a screen yet for the Epson LS800 so I’m guessing I’m not experiencing the full potential of the LS800 on a painted apartment wall. I’m still impressed but find myself questioning whether the LG would be worth the upgrade.


----------



## JimBob1971

@swirvin704 Sorry to interject. How sensitive are you to RBE? If sensitive then the LG may not be for you.


----------



## Gwreck

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve done a little testing with it with great results so far. My thoughts mirror the other responder to this question.
> 
> One interesting find I saw when I sent the video signal through the HDFury Vertex2 was that apparently they’re working on or worked on supporting DV/LLDV based on the native GUI message that popped up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why thanks!


I saw the Dolby Vision pop up also when using my HDFury arcana with my ls800. I was just a bit confused but didn’t think too much of it. Does this indicate LLDV may be coming to the ls800?


----------



## ProjectionHead

swerlin1 said:


> I find it odd to that only one review is out there and 20 that used Epsons marketing material. Since day one; ive been trying to get a price for the pj/screen combo that they mentioned and have yet to get a confirmation from AVS of the discount. Heck, Dave Harper said he turned in his review weeks ago and yet nothing.


Dave harper did not turn in his review weeks ago and just submitted the brightness measurements on Friday.
Our review is live now.


----------



## swirvin704

JimBob1971 said:


> @swirvin704 Sorry to interject. How sensitive are you to RBE? If sensitive then the LG may not be for you.


I wish I could answer this. I've never owned any other projector so I've never personally experienced this RBE effect.


----------



## Fox_10

@Dave Harper @ProjectionHead 

Hi guys,

are the differences in black level really as big as seen in the video?

Would the dynamic mode produce a better black level in the scene from the screenshot?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## arsenalfc89

Great review as always. Epson contrast is very nice on this unit.


----------



## JereyWolf

I was able to test the LS800 out myself and I can confirm that the 1080p/120hz is true 120hz and man, it feels so buttery smooth and responsive. However, I may have underestimated how bad 1080p looks at 120" from 16ft away (this is a hot take from only playing one game, I'm hoping I can improve the 1080p experience with game related settings).


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve done a little testing with it with great results so far. My thoughts mirror the other responder to this question.
> 
> One interesting find I saw when I sent the video signal through the HDFury Vertex2 was that apparently they’re working on or worked on supporting DV/LLDV based on the native GUI message that popped up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why thanks!


Wished they used dynamic mode on the Epson during this comparison.


----------



## noonsa

JereyWolf said:


> I was able to test the LS800 out myself and I can confirm that the 1080p/120hz is true 120hz and man, it feels so buttery smooth and responsive. However, I may have underestimated how bad 1080p looks at 120" from 16ft away (this is a hot take from only playing one game, I'm hoping I can improve the 1080p experience with game related settings).


I'm a pretty big gamer and I fail to see the usefulness of gaming at 1080p on a projector. I haven't played a game in 1080p, PC or console, for years. I would 100% rather play a game like God of War, Spider-Man, Elden Ring at 4K on a smaller screen than at 1080p on a giant screen. The only games I think would be acceptable are like Fortnite or Minecraft. Even strategy games I would rather play 4k since you gain a lot of UI space.


----------



## 3sprit

Ian H said:


> Has there been a comparison of the Epson LS800 and the Formovie Theatre ultra short throw projectors ?
> 
> if there has been can someone share the link to it please.
> 
> Thanks


 Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr








Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K - Mondoprojos.fr


Test EPSON EH-LS800 UST Laser 4K




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## 3sprit

Dave Harper said:


>


Which screen did you use? Thank you


----------



## 3sprit

I want to open the video in YT of the projector but the link only works within the browser: is it a confidential video? 🤔🤷‍♂️


----------



## blursch

@*Dave Harper:*
Thank you very much for your long awaited review!

Regarding your Test: I got my LS800 yesterday and it does show some chromatic aberration/panel alignment issues:









Is this normal for the Beamer or is my Unit faulty?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

swirvin704 said:


> Thanks for the detailed review! Dave what’s your opinion on the HU915QB. It’s it worth the price difference for a dedicated room with light control VS the Epson LS800. I always try to buy once , cry once. I’m 19days from moving into new home. I still don’t have a screen yet for the Epson LS800 so I’m guessing I’m not experiencing the full potential of the LS800 on a painted apartment wall. I’m still impressed but find myself questioning whether the LG would be worth the upgrade.


I haven't seen the LG yet. It's apparently an excellent UST however not sure what substantive improvement you might gain...perhaps a slightly sharper image.
You won't gain more lumens or superior contrast. Maybe superior colors....I find the color and sharpness on the L800 to be excellent overall....


----------



## JereyWolf

noonsa said:


> I'm a pretty big gamer and I fail to see the usefulness of gaming at 1080p on a projector. I haven't played a game in 1080p, PC or console, for years. I would 100% rather play a game like God of War, Spider-Man, Elden Ring at 4K on a smaller screen than at 1080p on a giant screen. The only games I think would be acceptable are like Fortnite or Minecraft. Even strategy games I would rather play 4k since you gain a lot of UI space.


It's not like 1080p is ideal....but if it's the only way to get higher refresh rates then I'm sure it's worth it for some people. When you are used to 144hz on a normal PC monitor, 60hz feels a lot different. I've played a lot of PC games at 1440p/60hz with less capable PC hardware than I have now and 1440p is a significant improvement over 1080p at my seating distance on a 120" screen.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Fox_10 said:


> @Dave Harper @ProjectionHead
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> are the differences in black level really as big as seen in the video?
> 
> Would the dynamic mode produce a better black level in the scene from the screenshot?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 3353834


According to the measurements in Dave's review the contast in Dynamic Color mode with High Speed Contrast engaged is 22,200 compared to 4500 in Vivid mode. So yes, the Black level would definitely be improved, vis a vis, the Vivid mode used in the above picture. Also fine tuning the Lazer Brightness level and brightness tab under CUSTOM SETTINGS will further enhance the perceived black levels.


----------



## swirvin704

MRJAZZZ said:


> I haven't seen the LG yet. It's apparently an excellent UST however not sure what substantive improvement you might gain...perhaps a slightly sharper image.
> You won't gain more lumens or superior contrast. Maybe superior colors....I find the color and sharpness on the L800 to be excellent overall....
> View attachment 3353907
> 
> View attachment 3353908
> View attachment 3353909


I guess based on reading reviews on different projectors I see non-short throws get the best reviews for example JVC DLA-NP5. Technically I could run that type of projector in my new home but would require a more advanced install etc. So I didn’t know if as far as the LG UST being triple laser, would it perform to the JVC projector level far as blacks and colors etc VS the epson LS800. Or is the JVC style projector really that much better than the UST projectors.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

swirvin704 said:


> I guess based on reading reviews on different projectors I see non-short throws get the best reviews for example JVC DLA-NP5. Technically I could run that type of projector in my new home but would require a more advanced install etc. So I didn’t know if as far as the LG UST being triple laser, would it perform to the JVC projector level far as blacks and colors etc VS the epson LS800. Or is the JVC style projector really that much better than the UST projectors.


No the LG UST will not perform at the level of a JVC long throw projector....no where near close. Actually the Epson L800 is (I believe) somewhat better in this area ( versus the LG ). The Tri Lazer LG will have a better Color Gamut, so this might be something to consider. I personally don't miss the two Tri Lazer UST 's I previously owned. Yes their color rendering is superior, however both had occasional RBE
( rainbow 🌈) and the colors on the Epson L800 are very satisfying....to me....However if superb color rendering is very high on your list, then a Tri Lazer may be the way to go. 
Cheers....


----------



## PixelPusher15

MRJAZZZ said:


> No the LG UST will not perform at the level of a JVC long throw projector....no where near close. Actually the Epson L800 is (I believe) somewhat better in this area ( versus the LG ). The Tri Lazer LG will have a better Color Gamut, so this might be something to consider. I personally don't miss the two Tri Lazer UST 's I previously owned. Yes their color rendering is superior, however both had occasional RBE
> ( rainbow 🌈) and the colors on the Epson L800 are very satisfying....to me....However if superb color rendering is very high on your list, then a Tri Lazer may be the way to go.
> Cheers....


I'm sorry but I must...it's 'laser', not 'Lazer'. 

Carry on, haha.


----------



## JereyWolf

I have to agree with what I've seen written a few times about the color on the LS800. 
I was kind of worried that the color would seem really dull after spending the last few years with tri-laser USTs, but the colors are actually really nice from the LS800. 
Quite often with the tri-laser projectors you see colors that look out of place or overextended even without the saturation cranked up, there's none of that with the LS800.


----------



## Winters93

Is there already a solution for this annoying light around it or do you have to align the picture exactly?

But then the alignment function of Epson is rubbish.


----------



## PixelPusher15

Winters93 said:


> Is there already a solution for this annoying light around it or do you have to align the picture exactly?
> 
> But then the alignment function of Epson is rubbish.


You have to align it better than that. If you use any of the fancy auto align or image resize functionality you are losing resolution and brightness. It's best to make every attempt to not use those features.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Fox_10 said:


> @Dave Harper @ProjectionHead
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> are the differences in black level really as big as seen in the video?
> 
> Would the dynamic mode produce a better black level in the scene from the screenshot?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 3353834


This is actual footage shot on the same screen, with the same camera, but was not supposed to be shared and I am not sure if this is the final one we are using.
@Dave Harper can do a better job explaining dynamic mode/black than I.


----------



## kraine

blursch said:


> @*Dave Harper:*
> Thank you very much for your long awaited review!
> 
> Regarding your Test: I got my LS800 yesterday and it does show some chromatic aberration/panel alignment issues:
> View attachment 3353898
> 
> 
> Is this normal for the Beamer or is my Unit faulty?


No, your unit offers a level of LCD panel lag that is quite normal for this type of technology and of the same level as what I saw on my LS800 test.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

PixelPusher15 said:


> I'm sorry but I must...it's 'laser', not 'Lazer'.
> 
> Carry on, haha.


THANK YOU!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JereyWolf said:


> I have to agree with what I've seen written a few times about the color on the LS800.
> I was kind of worried that the color would seem really dull after spending the last few years with tri-laser USTs, but the colors are actually really nice from the LS800.
> Quite often with the tri-laser projectors you see colors that look out of place or overextended even without the saturation cranked up, there's none of that with the LS800.


Totally agree ....The BOWMAKER was (is) really bad in this respect .....very exaggerated color profile...can obviously be tamed to look more natural, however still seems to be off .....the Formovie is much better in this regard....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Winters93 said:


> Is there already a solution for this annoying light around it or do you have to align the picture exactly?
> 
> But then the alignment function of Epson is rubbish.


I had the same issue when I received my LS800. At that time I was using a Vividstorm Floor Rising screen that had a nice 2 inch Black area around the entire screen. The "annoying light" or "glow" was an issue that I couldn't resolve, regardless on how I used the positioning menu (lower right button on the remote). 

When I received my new Elite Kestrel floor rising screen it has no black border to frame the image ....just a white screen , all the way out to the tab tensioning. Now I no longer have that issue, as there's no black area surrounding the screen. This "glow " or whatever you want to call it, isn't visible anymore. 
At first I was more than a little annoyed that the new screen didn't have a nice surrounding Black area to visibly "Frame" the projected image, however now that I have got used to it, and the fact that this "glowing" that was on the Black area is gone, I am more than satisfied. 

Another area that I like regarding the L800 is the positioning capability that L800 allows with it's Digital Zoom and Digital implementation. 
I actually don't like an overly large 16/9 image that most non theatrical broadcasts are presented in..(IE: News Channels, etc.) So with Epson's positioning and Zoom capabilities I can easily, and quickly Zoom the image smaller when I am watching News broadcasts , etc., than when a movie is on I can Zoom it back out for maximum visual impact. 

I don't have a "Scope" screen any longer, however if I did, it might be nice to see if you could fill the 2:35 Scope image, and than go back to 16/9 content with the Digital capabilities that the Epson has. My guess is there's not enough digital manipulation to properly fill the screen. If anyone has a Scope screen and an Epson L800, please try it and post your findings.


----------



## swerlin1

swirvin704 said:


> I guess based on reading reviews on different projectors I see non-short throws get the best reviews for example JVC DLA-NP5. Technically I could run that type of projector in my new home but would require a more advanced install etc. So I didn’t know if as far as the LG UST being triple laser, would it perform to the JVC projector level far as blacks and colors etc VS the epson LS800. Or is the JVC style projector really that much better than the UST projectors.


As a previous owner of many JVC models, I can say none of these USTs are going to touch a JVC. But there are tradeoffs to get that quality from it or performance— you need to have a dedicated, light controlled room to see it truly shine. While I never tried an alr or clr with any of mine, even the slightest bit of light washed out the picture. Thats why you will see the term bat cave, if you have that with some velvet— the picture just doesnt get much better. However, many people including myself dont have this environment anymore or never did. What is the next best thing— UST, pick your preference epson ls 800, formovie global, or the lg you mentioned. Look at the UST showdown done by projectorscreen, lots of great info between differnt models.


----------



## JackB

swirvin704 said:


> I guess based on reading reviews on different projectors I see non-short throws get the best reviews for example JVC DLA-NP5. Technically I could run that type of projector in my new home but would require a more advanced install etc. So I didn’t know if as far as the LG UST being triple laser, would it perform to the JVC projector level far as blacks and colors etc VS the epson LS800. Or is the JVC style projector really that much better than the UST projectors.


Depends on how deep your pot of gold is. I have both and the JVC is defintely the better picture when it is tuned right.


----------



## mcollin6

Winters93 said:


> Is there already a solution for this annoying light around it or do you have to align the picture exactly?
> 
> But then the alignment function of Epson is rubbish.


Did you try the edge blending? You have to use the remote to access it…. I think MRJAZZZ was trying to get it to work…


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone else play hd music video on youtube and get a small distortion in the picture. Anything helpful will be great. Thanks


----------



## MRJAZZZ

gr7383448 said:


> Anyone else play hd music video on youtube and get a small distortion in the picture. Anything helpful will be great. Thanks


I never successfully got it to eliminate the over scan "glow", however since I recently changed screens (see above post # 706) it's no longer an issue.


----------



## gr7383448

MRJAZZZ said:


> I never successfully got it to eliminate the over scan "glow", however since I recently changed screens (see above post # 706) it's no longer an issue.


We have a different issue my friend, i am talking about for example in a hd music video played on youtube through the epson android interface there is blurriness at some part of the image. It could be a person moving and part of his arm shows blurriness. Next few second all is good then few seconds later it effects some part of the image. I don’t know where in settings i can fix this.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

gr7383448 said:


> We have a different issue my friend, i am talking about for example in a hd music video played on youtube through the epson android interface there is blurriness at some part of the image. It could be a person moving and part of his arm shows blurriness. Next few second all is good then few seconds later it effects some part of the image. I don’t know where in settings i can fix this.


Sorry I meant to reply to a different post...not sure how my reply ended up on your post 😑
You might want to try the settings under MEMC.
That may help....
Cheers...


----------



## Lion DD

MRJAZZZ said:


> Some recent pictures from tonight....
> View attachment 3351400
> 
> View attachment 3351402
> 
> View attachment 3351403
> 
> View attachment 3351406
> 
> View attachment 3351405
> 
> View attachment 3351404
> 
> View attachment 3351401


What screen do you use please? how many inches


----------



## JimBob1971

ProjectionHead said:


> This is actual footage shot on the same screen, with the same camera, but was not supposed to be shared and I am not sure if this is the final one we are using.
> @Dave Harper can do a better job explaining dynamic mode/black than I.


Is there a video that show the 800 getting as deep blacks as the Formovie? If not, what is your personal opinion?

I absolutely love the Formovie but a fast gaming projector is tempting - I’m not sure I could give up the blacks on the Formovie which have been the best I’ve seen on a UST. Black levels aside, both have their pros and cons and most folk would probably be delighted with either.


----------



## JereyWolf

JimBob1971 said:


> Is there a video that show the 800 getting as deep blacks as the Formovie? If not, what is your personal opinion?
> 
> I absolutely love the Formovie but a fast gaming projector is tempting - I’m not sure I could give up the blacks on the Formovie which have been the best I’ve seen on a UST. Black levels aside, both have their pros and cons and most folk would probably be delighted with either.


Last night I set up my Fengmi T1 and the LS800 (in dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48) side by side and I can say that the T1 was better on black level. Not a massive difference, but noticeable when you are being critical. 

LS800 on left, Fengmi T1 on the right. (the T1 photographed with a bit of a pink tint).


----------



## rjyap

JereyWolf said:


> Last night I set up my Fengmi T1 and the LS800 (in dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48) side by side and I can say that the T1 was better on black level. Not a massive difference, but noticeable when you are being critical.
> 
> LS800 on left, Fengmi T1 on the right. (the T1 photographed with a bit of a pink tint).
> 
> View attachment 3354246


T1 native contrast will always be better in those scene where having bright objects or highlights against dark background. But if the whole scene level is very low APL (eg. the brightest pixel is under 50%) then those projector with dynamic contrast would be able to match T1 contrast. I just hope by early next year we would see a model with ALPD 4.0 and dynamic contrast using 0.66" DLP chip.


----------



## JereyWolf

rjyap said:


> T1 native contrast will always be better in those scene where having bright objects or highlights against dark background. But if the whole scene level is very low APL (eg. the brightest pixel is under 50%) then those projector with dynamic contrast would be a able to to match T1 contrast. I just hope by early next year we would see a model with ALPD 4.0 and dynamic contrast using 0.66" DLP chip.


This totally reflects what I observed. I used the very dim sand worm scene from the end of Dune and both of the projectors resolved about the same amount of detail.


----------



## tjsadler

JereyWolf said:


> This totally reflects what I observed. I used the very dim sand worm scene from the end of Dune and both of the projectors resolved about the same amount of detail.


The side by side video Harper posted was interesting because even though it was in "Vivid" instead of dynamic there were some clear differences. It could be just how the settings are being interpreted by the processing of each projector but there's a clear tendency that on the LS800 the brightest highlights are a bit blown out but the shadow detail is much better. On the T1 the highlights in the brightest areas of the picture are better but the darker areas are just a black blob. Unfortunately, it's now been removed so we can't go back and look again but it was especially apparent in the dark room shot of a mountain range with a sunrise behind it. I would think the difference would be even more apparent in "Dynamic" mode but someone would have to retest to see. For me, I have a brighter viewing room during the day so I want every lumen I can get (as well as a trusted warranty) so the Epson is an easy choice. 
I think we get so hung up on tiny differences sometimes we forget that, unless they're side by side, we'd probably never notice the difference. Nothing clarified that more for me than watching a movie at my friend's house. He's got a cheap 1080p Epson mounted ~20' away from a cheap white drop down screen. By the numbers it's a terrible setup, but if we all sit down to watch a movie we all enjoy it. Sometimes you just have to pick something that works for your room, set it up, and enjoy the movie!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

JereyWolf said:


> Last night I set up my Fengmi T1 and the LS800 (in dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48) side by side and I can say that the T1 was better on black level. Not a massive difference, but noticeable when you are being critical.
> 
> LS800 on left, Fengmi T1 on the right. (the T1 photographed with a bit of a pink tint).
> 
> View attachment 3354246


If you have time please post a side by side pic again, but use Cinema color mode for the Epson L800 
Thanks


----------



## 3sprit

JereyWolf said:


> Last night I set up my Fengmi T1 and the LS800


Usual question: what screen do you use? Thank you.
While waiting to buy one I see a lot of "light" when I have a totally black image with the Theater.


----------



## JereyWolf

MRJAZZZ said:


> If you have time please post a side by side pic again, but use Cinema color mode for the Epson L800
> Thanks


I took a lot of photos and some videos...but I don't want to post them as is because each projector photographs differently and the results are a bit deceptive, specifically about color. That's why I felt ok about post the image above of just a black and white screen. 
I won't be able to get any more photos because I've already put the LS800 back in the box for return. 

I will try to do a bit of color editing on the comparison photos so they are more representative of what I saw in person.


----------



## JereyWolf

3sprit said:


> Usual question: what screen do you use? Thank you.
> While waiting to buy one I see a lot of "light" when I have a totally black image with the Theater.


I have a Grandview Dynamique from 120" (rated at 0.4 gain), purchased from Projectorscreen.com about two years ago. 

The difference in the "full off' state of the LS800 vs the T1 is huge...but in reality I don't feel that translates into real viewing at all. If anything....the LS800 transitioning from full laser off to a very dim scene makes the black floor even more noticeable (because a second before that you saw the black floor of the screen/room).


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

JereyWolf said:


> I have a Grandview Dynamique from 120" (rated at 0.4 gain), purchased from Projectorscreen.com about two years ago.
> 
> The difference in the "full off' state of the LS800 vs the T1 is huge...but in reality I don't feel that translates into real viewing at all. If anything....the LS800 transitioning from full laser off to a very dim scene makes the black floor even more noticeable (because a second before that you saw the black floor of the screen/room).


Ahh so it's not a smooth transition it there's some lag in the detection. So in your opinion the formovie is just a much better bet for those concerned with black levels, which seems to be a lot of the people interested in this projector.


----------



## Kev1000000

I will say, the detection of pure black and turning off the lasers is instantaneous, but if there is literally even 1 pixel of not black on the screen, it won't trasition, so it can feel like there is a lag if the content still has any sort of non-black pixels. This is most noticeable if you have credits with simple white text that fade to black between things. In general though, the LS800 detects pure black signals and turns off the laser immediately.


----------



## JereyWolf

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Ahh so it's not a smooth transition it there's some lag in the detection. So in your opinion the formovie is just a much better bet for those concerned with black levels, which seems to be a lot of the people interested in this projector.


I agree with @Kev1000000 , there's no lag time it's just the difference of quickly stepping from pure black (with the laser off in a dark room) to the actual black floor of the projector. If you didn’t see that ultra black reference point, the black floor would be less noticeable.

I would say that the T1 is just a little bit better with black. Not a huge difference. However the upper end of light output of the LS800 does make a huge difference and if you primarily watch in a non bat cave setting, I think that alone could be enough to sway someone towards the LS800.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Kev1000000 said:


> I will say, the detection of pure black and turning off the lasers is instantaneous, but if there is literally even 1 pixel of not black on the screen, it won't trasition, so it can feel like there is a lag if the content still has any sort of non-black pixels. This is most noticeable if you have credits with simple white text that fade to black between things. In general though, the LS800 detects pure black signals and turns off the laser immediately.


But without the "dynamic" setting that literally shuts the laser off when there's nothing on screen (not an actual solution) the black levels are significantly worse than the FM?

Or is dynamic doing something else to drop the black levels to the picture globally?


----------



## ProjectionHead

JimBob1971 said:


> Is there a video that show the 800 getting as deep blacks as the Formovie? If not, what is your personal opinion?


With the limited time I had to spend with them side by side (been sick/recovering from covid), I haven't had a chance to run through all of the modes (we generally only do standard, out of the box for the quick ide by sides), but my preference is for the Formovie since I am not susceptible to rainbows, don't need the extra brightness of the Epson and don't care about lag time. I prefer the deeper blacks (as I experienced them) and the wider color gamut... but in a different room, the extra brightness that I may need could be all it would take to have me chose the Epson instead.


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone know how to check lamp hours on this. I don’t see it on information menu unless i missed something. Thanks


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Lion DD said:


> What screen do you use please? how many inches


Elite Kestrel floor rising screen....white screen, 1.2 gain....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

MRJAZZZ said:


> Elite Kestrel floor rising screen....white screen, 1.2 gain....
> View attachment 3354626


122 inches.....


----------



## JimBob1971

ProjectionHead said:


> With the limited time I had to spend with them side by side (been sick/recovering from covid), I haven't had a chance to run through all of the modes (we generally only do standard, out of the box for the quick ide by sides), but my preference is for the Formovie since I am not susceptible to rainbows, don't need the extra brightness of the Epson and don't care about lag time. I prefer the deeper blacks (as I experienced them) and the wider color gamut... but in a different room, the extra brightness that I may need could be all it would take to have me chose the Epson instead.


Thanks, pretty much mirrors what I suspected. I love the Formovie but don’t think I would keep it if I needed a UST for a bright day room (unlike the LS800/LS500). Thankfully I don’t need it for a bright room and I have a semi light controlled pit of a bedroom to keep it in and an Oled for the living room 😂 Would love a machine that straddled both worlds though, but I guess the more you go one way the harder it is to keep the other.

Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## JereyWolf

The attached link shows LS800 on the left and Fengmi T1 on the right.
The photos were edited for color only to get closer to what I was seeing in person.
There is also a video with no color edits that shows how the projectors displayed on my camera sensor, but not how they looked in person (video is only displaying in 360p...it probably needs some time for google to make it viewable at 1080p). 
Everything was SDR.
Settings for LS800 were: dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48, contrast enhancer off, motion settings off, warm wall color and 5 (I think) for color temperature, everything else at default. 






EPSON LS800 - FENGMI T1 - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

JereyWolf said:


> The attached link shows LS800 on the left and Fengmi T1 on the right.
> The photos were edited for color only to get closer to what I was seeing in person.
> There is also a video with no color edits that shows how the projectors displayed on my camera sensor, but not how they looked in person (video is only displaying in 360p...it probably needs some time for google to make it viewable at 1080p).
> Everything was SDR.
> Settings for LS800 were: dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48, contrast enhancer off, motion settings off, warm wall color and 5 (I think) for color temperature, everything else at default.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EPSON LS800 - FENGMI T1 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Thank you for putting all the work into this. They seem pretty comparable as far as sharpness, and maybe even contrast. The Epson seems to have a green cast over everything though yea? The FM seems closer to how I remember the color in HOTD while watching it.


----------



## rjyap

JereyWolf said:


> The attached link shows LS800 on the left and Fengmi T1 on the right.
> The photos were edited for color only to get closer to what I was seeing in person.
> There is also a video with no color edits that shows how the projectors displayed on my camera sensor, but not how they looked in person (video is only displaying in 360p...it probably needs some time for google to make it viewable at 1080p).
> Everything was SDR.
> Settings for LS800 were: dynamic mode, with dynamic contrast at high speed, half power for the light level slider, and brightness set to 48, contrast enhancer off, motion settings off, warm wall color and 5 (I think) for color temperature, everything else at default.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EPSON LS800 - FENGMI T1 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


from the photo it seems T1 have deeper color. Red looks pale on Epson more orange than deep red from one of the photo with red dress.


----------



## gr7383448

He has a 1.2 grain white regular screen, would it make a difference if the screen was a ALR with something like .8 grain?


----------



## Winters93

I watched live soccer in 4k and HLG. I think it's a little too dark, can I change something?
HDR is set to 1 but I noticed the HDR slider has no effect on HLG footage.


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> With the limited time I had to spend with them side by side (been sick/recovering from covid), I haven't had a chance to run through all of the modes (we generally only do standard, out of the box for the quick ide by sides), but my preference is for the Formovie since I am not susceptible to rainbows, don't need the extra brightness of the Epson and don't care about lag time. I prefer the deeper blacks (as I experienced them) and the wider color gamut... but in a different room, the extra brightness that I may need could be all it would take to have me chose the Epson instead.


I am curious as to why there is such emphasis on black levels. For the users here, what percentage of viewing do you do in a fully dark room? It seems to me that if you spend the majority of your time viewing in a room with significant ambient light (as most USTs are marketed) black levels would be less important than brightness. Even with a very low gain screen (0.4 or so) wouldn’t the black floor would be pretty high most of the time, negating any advantage that a low black level projector has?

What am I misunderstanding? 

I have an LS800 on the way, and about a dozen different UST ALR material samples gathered from SI, da-lite, Draper, Stewart, ES, ES Pro, Spectra, Silver Ticket, Screen Pro and Vivid Storm, along with some matte white samples. I was going to compare all of them with a black/white checker board as well as a RGB pattern at various laser levels and ambient light conditions (measured with a light meter from all directions) to see which gave both the best black floor (should be lowest gain) as well as best apparent over all contrast range (includes bright end of spectrum). The RGB pattern should e help evaluate how colors pop on the screen as well. It was interesting to me that more than one manufacturer recommended that I use a non-UST material, either grey or even with some positive gain. 

Would anyone be interested in me posting the results, and/or can you make suggestions as to what I should look at/test in the process?


----------



## JereyWolf

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Thank you for putting all the work into this. They seem pretty comparable as far as sharpness, and maybe even contrast. The Epson seems to have a green cast over everything though yea? The FM seems closer to how I remember the color in HOTD while watching it.


Part of the color difference is from not having them perfectly matched or "calibrated" but there wasn't anything else I could adjust on the Epson. 
Subjectively, my T1 had a bit more "depth" in every scene, I assume this is due to a combination of color gamut and contrast. 



rjyap said:


> from the photo it seems T1 have deeper color. Red looks pale on Epson more orange than deep red from one of the photo with red dress.


Color is definitely "deeper", which I think we all knew it would be from the tri-laser.


----------



## JereyWolf

mcollin6 said:


> I am curious as to why there is such emphasis on black levels. For the users here, what percentage of viewing do you do in a fully dark room? It seems to me that if you spend the majority of your time viewing in a room with significant ambient light (as most USTs are marketed) black levels would be less important than brightness. Even with a very low gain screen (0.4 or so) wouldn’t the black floor would be pretty high most of the time, negating any advantage that a low black level projector has?


Even though my projector is in my living room, I do most of my viewing in the late evening and I typically only watch movies at night. In those conditions (with the projector off), when looking at the wall my screen is on, I can't make any distinction between the screen and the black velvet behind it.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

mcollin6 said:


> I am curious as to why there is such emphasis on black levels. For the users here, what percentage of viewing do you do in a fully dark room? It seems to me that if you spend the majority of your time viewing in a room with significant ambient light (as most USTs are marketed) black levels would be less important than brightness. Even with a very low gain screen (0.4 or so) wouldn’t the black floor would be pretty high most of the time, negating any advantage that a low black level projector has?
> 
> What am I misunderstanding?
> 
> I have an LS800 on the way, and about a dozen different UST ALR material samples gathered from SI, da-lite, Draper, Stewart, ES, ES Pro, Spectra, Silver Ticket, Screen Pro and Vivid Storm, along with some matte white samples. I was going to compare all of them with a black/white checker board as well as a RGB pattern at various laser levels and ambient light conditions (measured with a light meter from all directions) to see which gave both the best black floor (should be lowest gain) as well as best apparent over all contrast range (includes bright end of spectrum). The RGB pattern should e help evaluate how colors pop on the screen as well. It was interesting to me that more than one manufacturer recommended that I use a non-UST material, either grey or even with some positive gain.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in me posting the results, and/or can you make suggestions as to what I should look at/test in the process?


Because- and I'm sure this coversation is just beating a dead horse even deader- using a projector in a well lit room is the least ideal way to use a projector.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> I am curious as to why there is such emphasis on black levels. For the users here, what percentage of viewing do you do in a fully dark room? It seems to me that if you spend the majority of your time viewing in a room with significant ambient light (as most USTs are marketed) black levels would be less important than brightness. Even with a very low gain screen (0.4 or so) wouldn’t the black floor would be pretty high most of the time, negating any advantage that a low black level projector has?
> 
> What am I misunderstanding?
> 
> I have an LS800 on the way, and about a dozen different UST ALR material samples gathered from SI, da-lite, Draper, Stewart, ES, ES Pro, Spectra, Silver Ticket, Screen Pro and Vivid Storm, along with some matte white samples. I was going to compare all of them with a black/white checker board as well as a RGB pattern at various laser levels and ambient light conditions (measured with a light meter from all directions) to see which gave both the best black floor (should be lowest gain) as well as best apparent over all contrast range (includes bright end of spectrum). The RGB pattern should e help evaluate how colors pop on the screen as well. It was interesting to me that more than one manufacturer recommended that I use a non-UST material, either grey or even with some positive gain.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in me posting the results, and/or can you make suggestions as to what I should look at/test in the process?


Me personally, in my main TV/UST viewing room - I am at work all day long and don't really watch any TV/Movies with a high level out natural ambient light. Most of my viewing is done in the evenings and while I may keep some lights on in the room so I am not in pitch black, I generally am in a darker environment and prefer deep, dark blacks and clarity of detail in shadows and low APL scenes.

In the summer where it stays light later, the windows in my main viewing room are on the east side of the house, so we don't get a tremendous amount of natural light flooding in and what does come in is not hitting my screen surface.

On the weekends, I usually am not watching TV/movies during the day and my kids who may be watching cartoons don't really care about image quality.. but they are still young and don't yet know any better 

The Formovie Theater, as an example on a 120" Spectra Projection Vantage screen is more than bright enough to accommodate my viewing preferences and lighting conditions. The Epson would obviously be even brighter, but at the expense of black levels and color gamut.


----------



## dreamprojector

I do not see many comparisons between LS800 and Formovie Theater. If you have to choose between these for a dark basement, which one do you prefer? Here is some of my notes comparing these projectors:

1. LS800 doesn't have Dolby Vision. Does it really matter?
2. Brand value. Epson is a known household name. I heard Formovie for the very first time this week.
3. Store Availability. I can walk-in to buy Epson in a BestBuy (BB) and can return at BB in case of any issues. However, that is not the case with Formovie.
4. Customer Service. Epson is not great with Customer Service but I know they have a team in the US. How good is Formovie Customer Support?
5. Audio. I heard that LS800 (Yamaha speakers) are not that great. Formovie audio is good. Will it really matter if I eventually connect to a 7.1 speaker setup.
6. Reviews. All the reviews of Formovie are posted on projectorscreen.com and almost nil from elsewhere. Epson got reviews from Best Buy, Amazon, projectorscreen.com.


----------



## mcollin6

JereyWolf said:


> Even though my projector is in my living room, I do most of my viewing in the late evening and I typically only watch movies at night. In those conditions (with the projector off), when looking at the wall my screen is on, I can't make any distinction between the screen and the black velvet behind it.


Ahh! That makes sense. I have my projector on 10-12 hours a day in my living room. . About 80-90% of that is with some daylight or ambient light in the room. I only have it fully dark if I am watching a movie at night, and even then, there can be some ambient light for moving around.


----------



## mcollin6

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Because- and I'm sure this coversation is just beating a dead horse even deader- using a projector in a well lit room is the least ideal way to use a projector.


Why get a UST, designed for bright room performance, when you can get much better performance for similar cost from a long or short throw projector? Most short throw projectors can fit into the same room that a UST will fit.


----------



## mcollin6

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Because- and I'm sure this coversation is just beating a dead horse even deader- using a projector in a well lit room is the least ideal way to use a projector.


So, can I assume you’d not be interested in a test that compared the performance of UST ALR materials under varying ambient light conditions and image brightnesses?


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

mcollin6 said:


> Why get a UST, designed for bright room performance, when you can get much better performance for similar cost from a long or short throw projector? Most short throw projectors can fit into the same room that a UST will fit.


I live in an apartment, so my ability to mount, wire, and move stuff around is limited. Plus I honestly just like the idea of a UST over a traditional projector. Pretty happy with what I've been able to do.

And I'd definitely be interested in seeing how both of these perform in ambient conditions!


----------



## Winters93

Is there a way to get HLG picture brighter?

It looks brighter in the picture than in real life.


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> Me personally, in my main TV/UST viewing room - I am at work all day long and don't really watch any TV/Movies with a high level out natural ambient light. Most of my viewing is done in the evenings and while I may keep some lights on in the room so I am not in pitch black, I generally am in a darker environment and prefer deep, dark blacks and clarity of detail in shadows and low APL scenes.
> 
> In the summer where it stays light later, the windows in my main viewing room are on the east side of the house, so we don't get a tremendous amount of natural light flooding in and what does come in is not hitting my screen surface.
> 
> On the weekends, I usually am not watching TV/movies during the day and my kids who may be watching cartoons don't really care about image quality.. but they are still young and don't yet know any better
> 
> The Formovie Theater, as an example on a 120" Spectra Projection Vantage screen is more than bright enough to accommodate my viewing preferences and lighting conditions. The Epson would obviously be even brighter, but at the expense of black levels and color gamut.


Brian, 
Do you see most of your UST customers working with the dark room use case or the living room use case with ambient lighting? Are you seeing USTs replacing TVs, or are they being used as replacements for other long throw projectors? 

All of the marketing pictures for USTs I have seen shows a UST in a highly lit room showing a huge picture on the wall. If most USTs are being put into dedicated dark room theaters, it seems like manufacturers have misunderstood their target audience. I did see an CEDIA interview with Hisense where they talked about adding a theater line as well as a Laser TV line, but that hasn’t been communicated by other manufacturers.


----------



## tjsadler

Winters93 said:


> Is there a way to get HLG picture brighter?
> 
> It looks brighter in the picture than in real life.


Where are you getting the HLG picture from and what are you using to play it? I know I use YouTubeTV via an AppleTV4K and I dropped the 4k add-on subscription because their 4K HDR implementation is a mess and won't properly register for the AppleTV to output HDR. Some things looked mostly ok but some things definitely did not. Baseball games just looked extra dark. I follow Tottenham and their white home kit sometimes came across blue. So it could be the streaming service or device having an issue vs an issue with the projector. If it IS actually rendering in HDR then you can use the HDR slider adjustment in the settings. Lower number = brighter picture.


----------



## tjsadler

mcollin6 said:


> I have an LS800 on the way, and about a dozen different UST ALR material samples gathered from SI, da-lite, Draper, Stewart, ES, ES Pro, Spectra, Silver Ticket, Screen Pro and Vivid Storm, along with some matte white samples. I was going to compare all of them with a black/white checker board as well as a RGB pattern at various laser levels and ambient light conditions (measured with a light meter from all directions) to see which gave both the best black floor (should be lowest gain) as well as best apparent over all contrast range (includes bright end of spectrum). The RGB pattern should e help evaluate how colors pop on the screen as well. It was interesting to me that more than one manufacturer recommended that I use a non-UST material, either grey or even with some positive gain.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in me posting the results, and/or can you make suggestions as to what I should look at/test in the process?


I'd love to see your results. It would probably be good to test both in high and low ambient light conditions. I recently got samples from Elite (CLR3) and Silver Ticket (UST and DIYUST). The Elite CLR3 and the ST UST look pretty much exactly the same to me. The DIYUST from Silver Ticket looked pretty bad. It's a lot thinner more fragile material and just looked duller overall with obvious discoloration/damage just from handling it to tape the sample to my current screen. 
I previously made a 135" screen with 1x4's and covered it with Carl's Place ALR material with a velvet border. It worked great with a standard throw but was obviously horrible for the UST. The material was angular reflective so you could watch part of the picture reflected on the ceiling! I masked off the velvet and painted it with a weenie roller and Glidden Universal Gray flat paint with an additive to achieve a smoother finish. Took about 5 hours from the start of prep to the finish of the second coat (and about $50 of materials) and looks pretty darn good for now. I was considering just buying some DIY material and recovering my screen but I found out that flat enough for a standard throw is WAY off for a UST. I was able to add a couple of ugly temp brackets to flatten the corners and center of the screen enough for now but I don't think it's going to work long term with a wood frame. There's just too much deflection just from changes in temp and humidity. I just ordered a 140" from XY Screens so I'll try to post a review after I get that up. 
This is a quick phone pic from last night. All the lights are on in the back half the room where I'm sitting, the LS800 laser setting is at about 60%. Ignore all the cabling issues... I'm not fixing those until the new screen goes up!








This is a pic with the lights off and the laser at 50%.


----------



## Winters93

I've got a solution. In game mode HDMI 3, HLG is much brighter and more pleasant. Unfortunately, no settings are possible in game mode. Which picture mode is used there, dynamic or something else?
What are disadvantages of the game input?


----------



## satriani

I'm planning to visit a friend in Germany next month and want to ship the LS800 with the IFA discount beforehand. Planning to place the projector box in my luggage. 

Can anybody help me with:


Package dimensions for the box?
Would it be safe to carry the device in the luggage? I'll try to bring as much sweaters as I can find for the dampening


----------



## mcollin6

@tjsadler I don’t have overhead lighting, but I do have a couple of smart lamps that I can set to different brightness level. I will take ambient light measurements so it is possible to compare with other rooms. The idea is to vary the ambient light levels and the image brightness and take a picture for each condition of all the samples with both checker board and RGB color displayed.

Seems like you have many of the materials that i do. Hopefully we’ll get similar results that we can compare.
Will try to pull something together over the next couple of weeks. Just for kicks, I will post a picture of the LS800 shining onto an Elite Screens Cinegrey 3D ALR surface. From the data on their site, I should get 0.75 gain at the bottom and 0.1 at the top due to the angles involved. That should end up as a severe hot spot! Be interesting to see if the math theory reflects real life conditions. (Pun intended).


----------



## tjsadler

The Carl's Place ALR is rated at 1.4 gain and it was a definite HOT spot at the bottom center with really dim outer areas. The flat gray paint on the screen now actually looks really good, overall (especially considering that I just wiped it down and rolled on the paint) but my wife really wants more curtains open during the daylight hours so the UST CLR screen will be a big upgrade in the WAF department.


----------



## noonsa

satriani said:


> I'm planning to visit a friend in Germany next month and want to ship the LS800 with the IFA discount beforehand. Planning to place the projector box in my luggage.
> 
> Can anybody help me with:
> 
> 
> Package dimensions for the box?
> Would it be safe to carry the device in the luggage? I'll try to bring as much sweaters as I can find for the dampening


Never risk putting delicate/expensive electronics in your check-in baggage. Carry it with you! No matter how many sweaters you have, if someone tosses your suitcase 10 feet that pure shock is going to affect it. Think about what's inside a projector. Lenses and lasers that are factory aligned.


----------



## nuevo_eph

Kyle Gallagher said:


> I live in an apartment, so my ability to mount, wire, and move stuff around is limited. Plus I honestly just like the idea of a UST over a traditional projector. Pretty happy with what I've been able to do.
> 
> And I'd definitely be interested in seeing how both of these perform in ambient conditions!
> 
> View attachment 3354939


Tell me more about that cabinet! It looks nice.


----------



## tjsadler

satriani said:


> I'm planning to visit a friend in Germany next month and want to ship the LS800 with the IFA discount beforehand. Planning to place the projector box in my luggage.
> 
> Can anybody help me with:
> 
> 
> Package dimensions for the box?
> Would it be safe to carry the device in the luggage? I'll try to bring as much sweaters as I can find for the dampening


The overall box dimensions according to FedEx are 31"x18"x13" and 36lbs so it would need to be a large suitcase. You can probably buy baggage insurance to cover it as well. I think that discount is about $1,000 so I would do it if I was going to be in Germany anyway. While baggage handlers are known to be quite rough on luggage, I highly doubt the people and equipment in the FedEx or UPS warehouses and airplanes/trucks are any kinder to them. I was at FedEx the other day and they had a sign stating that you should pack all items with the expectation that they would be thrown from a vehicle to the ground and dropped up to 16'! I bought my first projector (an Epson 8100) when we lived in the Dominican Republic and had a friend bring it loose in their checked bag and it made it fine. I would guess that a UST would be less prone to damage as everything is pretty much fixed in place. If you could put the whole box in your luggage it should be fine. It might get stolen by a baggage handler.... but it probably wouldn't be damaged. I'd probably unpack it at your friend's house and make sure everything is working, and then obviously repack it in the box, before bringing it home.


----------



## tjsadler

nuevo_eph said:


> Tell me more about that cabinet! It looks nice.











Cabinet for my new UST


Hi All. Just thought I'd share my idea and how it came out. I wanted to get a UST and my wife was not a fan as she didn't want the big projector sitting out in the open in the LR floor. I wanted something as small as possible, as protective as possible, and that would hide the unit as much as...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Winters93 said:


> Is there a way to get HLG picture brighter?
> 
> It looks brighter in the picture than in real life.
> View attachment 3354941


If your HLG source is from a streaming device 
(Apple ATV4, Invidia Shield, etc.) I would recommend turning off the HDR feed, and using just SDR. Your image will be noticeably brighter.


----------



## JereyWolf

Winters93 said:


> I've got a solution. In game mode HDMI 3, HLG is much brighter and more pleasant. Unfortunately, no settings are possible in game mode. Which picture mode is used there, dynamic or something else?
> What are disadvantages of the game input?


I think you actually can make picture adjustments on game mode...it's just that the setting shortcut button is disabled. You have to hit the home button first, then go into settings, make adjustments then hit the game mode button. 
I'm pretty sure I got it to work when I had one set up....very annoying way to do it though.


----------



## Kev1000000

JereyWolf said:


> I think you actually can make picture adjustments on game mode...it's just that the setting shortcut button is disabled. You have to hit the home button first, then go into settings, make adjustments then hit the game mode button.
> I'm pretty sure I got it to work when I had one set up....very annoying way to do it though.


Can cofirm this works. I actually haven't found a setting that _doesn't _apply yet.


----------



## JereyWolf

Kev1000000 said:


> Can cofirm this works. I actually haven't found a setting that _doesn't _apply yet.


The manual is really good about noting every setting/option/ button that does not work with game mode/hdmi 3.


----------



## 7sedam7

satriani said:


> I'm planning to visit a friend in Germany next month and want to ship the LS800 with the IFA discount beforehand. Planning to place the projector box in my luggage.
> 
> Can anybody help me with:
> 
> 
> Package dimensions for the box?
> Would it be safe to carry the device in the luggage? I'll try to bring as much sweaters as I can find for the dampening


How do i get that discount, i have an address in germany?
I checked epson.de, but there is a usual 3599€ price.


----------



## Winters93

JereyWolf said:


> I think you actually can make picture adjustments on game mode...it's just that the setting shortcut button is disabled. You have to hit the home button first, then go into settings, make adjustments then hit the game mode button.
> I'm pretty sure I got it to work when I had one set up....very annoying way to do it though.


When I go to the home menu, the settings are exactly the same as HDMI 1, but I still imagine the picture looks different in game mode than HDMI 1.

Why use Hdmi 1 if everything works with 3?


----------



## Winters93

7sedam7 said:


> Wie bekomme ich diesen Rabatt, ich habe eine Adresse in Deutschland?
> Ich habe bei epson.de nachgesehen, aber da steht ein üblicher Preis von 3599€.
> [/ZITIEREN]
> 
> Rabattcode
> IFA2022


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone know how to control volume with fire stick remote?


----------



## Lion DD

MRJAZZZ said:


> Elite Kestrel floor rising screen....white screen, 1.2 gain....
> View attachment 3354626


So cool!Does this screen have light resistance? Your room has lots of light, back windows and side doors


----------



## 7sedam7

Thank you very much 🙏


----------



## Winters93

Winters93 said:


> Warum Hdmi 1 verwenden, wenn mit 3 alles funktioniert?
> [/ZITIEREN]
> 
> 
> ???


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Lion DD said:


> So cool!Does this screen have light resistance? Your room has lots of light, back windows and side doors


No...for Light resistance you need an ALR or CLR type screen. No white screen material (that I am aware of) has these properties.


----------



## 3sprit

dreamprojector said:


> I do not see many comparisons between LS800 and Formovie Theater. If you have to choose between these for a dark basement, which one do you prefer? Here is some of my notes comparing these projectors:
> 
> 1. LS800 doesn't have Dolby Vision. Does it really matter?
> 2. Brand value. Epson is a known household name. I heard Formovie for the very first time this week.
> 3. Store Availability. I can walk-in to buy Epson in a BestBuy (BB) and can return at BB in case of any issues. However, that is not the case with Formovie.
> 4. Customer Service. Epson is not great with Customer Service but I know they have a team in the US. How good is Formovie Customer Support?
> 5. Audio. I heard that LS800 (Yamaha speakers) are not that great. Formovie audio is good. Will it really matter if I eventually connect to a 7.1 speaker setup.
> 6. Reviews. All the reviews of Formovie are posted on projectorscreen.com and almost nil from elsewhere. Epson got reviews from Best Buy, Amazon, projectorscreen.com.


If you do not know how to use Google for research it does not mean that there are no reviews on the net (including videos) or distributors (in the US and Europe and beyond ...) for Formovie. 😉


----------



## mcollin6

Got my LS800 this morning. Just set it up and used Dave Harper’s settings from the review. Decided to see how it looked on the worst possible screen for a UST. Projecting onto a ES Cinegrey 3D long throw ALR screen. It has a 1.2 gain for a long gain projector, but at the angles that the LS800 hits it with, the gain is 0.75 at the bottom and. 0.1 at the top. What do you think? Look at all the light pollution that is on the ceiling due to the angle of incidence. It’s so bad it actually drops the contrast in the screen!

The blue picture actually looks like that in my room. Wanted to show how the screen hot spots with the UST, even though it isn’t as obvious with the other pictures. If you look closely, though you can see the image contrast getting washed out at the center bottom.

I apologize for the state of my room. Everything has been torn down in expectation of getting the new projector. 
You can see my replaced BenQ short throw sitting on a table in the bottom of the picture.


----------



## Winters93

I sometimes have picture dropouts on the HDMI 3 input. I don't know if it's the projector or the HDMI cable, but the cable is brand new. Otherwise very satisfied so far.


----------



## mcollin6

I have had something strange happen. The projector has shut itself off twice with no input from me. Doesn’t seem to be anything wrong, and no blinking lights that I can find. I can immediately turn it back on with no issues. Doesn’t seem to be overheating as the fan speed stays at a low level both before and after the switch off. There were a few hours between this happening, and one was when I was close to the front of the machine, messing with cords so the laser dimmer turned in and it beeped at me.

Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## swirvin704

Winters93 said:


> I sometimes have picture dropouts on the HDMI 3 input. I don't know if it's the projector or the HDMI cable, but the cable is brand new. Otherwise very satisfied so far.
> View attachment 3355597
> 
> View attachment 3355596


Nice setup! What screen model and size are you using ?


----------



## Winters93

Thanks.

This is a 120" CLR screen from Elite Screens.


----------



## joflow

Any opinions on what the cheapest 120 inch ALR screen that gives acceptable results paired with a LS800 would be? Would the WEMAX 120 inch ALR/CLR screen get the job done? They are about $600-$700 dollars and that is around half as much as the next cheapest screen that I've seen. Going in a daylight basement room without light control. So its not super bright but its not super dark either and I can put up blackout curtains to contain light coming from the nearest window (though there is also a large door with big windows that has blinds but I don't want to do curtains over it).

Wondering if the 4000 ansi lumens makes the cheaper screens more viable. I'm looking for good enough performance during the day and great performance at night. I'd rather not spend $2000 on a screen but I also don't want to spend $3500 on a projector and get subpar results because I cheaped out on the screen. First UST so I have no direct experience with any of this stuff.


----------



## 1nquisitive

Ignore the title, but this video has some good footage of the LS800 on an 150" screen.


----------



## 1nquisitive

joflow said:


> Any opinions on what the cheapest 120 inch ALR screen that gives acceptable results paired with a LS800 would be? Would the WEMAX 120 inch ALR/CLR screen get the job done? They are about $600-$700 dollars and that is around half as much as the next cheapest screen that I've seen. Going in a daylight basement room without light control. So its not super bright but its not super dark either and I can put up blackout curtains to contain light coming from the nearest window (though there is also a large door with big windows that has blinds but I don't want to do curtains over it).
> 
> Wondering if the 4000 ansi lumens makes the cheaper screens more viable. I'm looking for good enough performance during the day and great performance at night. I'd rather not spend $2000 on a screen but I also don't want to spend $3500 on a projector and get subpar results because I cheaped out on the screen. First UST so I have no direct experience with any of this stuff.


You're really going to want a decent ALR screen, especially for your usage environment. And for sizes around 120", lowest price is probably around $1500. I had the Elite Screen 120" CLR screen with two different USTs (LS500 and LSP9T), and the screen was pretty great.


----------



## joflow

1nquisitive said:


> You're really going to want a decent ALR screen, especially for your usage environment. And for sizes around 120", lowest price is probably around $1500. I had the Elite Screen 120" CLR screen with two different USTs (LS500 and LSP9T), and the screen was pretty great.


I figured as much and was leaning that way. Just wanted to get an opinion from someone with direct experience.

So looks like I can get a 123 inch Aeon CLR 3 series for $1677 direct from EliteScreens. There is also a seller on Amazon selling the 115 inch Aeon CLR 3 for around $1500. But I could just get the LS800 bundled with a SilverFlex 120 ALR inch screen and it would come out to $2000 for the screen. Epson sells that screen on their site for $3000 so its effectively a $1000 discount. Is the SilverFlex worth the extra $500? Not having ever seen any of these screens before (or even an UST), I really don't have any context to make judgement calls on whether a $3000 screen selling for $2000 is worth the $500 premium over a $1500 screen.


----------



## gr7383448

I got xy screen .8 grain, looks beautiful with the epson 800, like a led tv


----------



## 1nquisitive

joflow said:


> I figured as much and was leaning that way. Just wanted to get an opinion from someone with direct experience.
> 
> So looks like I can get a 123 inch Aeon CLR 3 series for $1677 direct from EliteScreens. There is also a seller on Amazon selling the 115 inch Aeon CLR 3 for around $1500. But I could just get the LS800 bundled with a SilverFlex 120 ALR inch screen and it would come out to $2000 for the screen. Epson sells that screen on their site for $3000 so its effectively a $1000 discount. Is the SilverFlex worth the extra $500? Not having ever seen any of these screens before (or even an UST), I really don't have any context to make judgement calls on whether a $3000 screen selling for $2000 is worth the $500 premium over a $1500 screen.


I doubt the Silverflex from Epson is any better than the CLR3 from Elite. Which, coincidentally, I was considering the 123" CLR3, as well. But haven't made the jump to LS800 yet.


----------



## gr7383448

If you search on google forums or youtube search for xy screen company, you will find this a reputable company with great price for what you get. Wendy is one of the good customer service reps. You can order through alibaba.com to be safe. She was very responsive before and after sale on alibaba.com and on whatsapp. I had setup issue and she helped me resolve it within minutes through whatsapp.


----------



## joflow

gr7383448 said:


> If you search on google forums or youtube search for xy screen company, you will find this a reputable company with great price for what you get. Wendy is one of the good customer service reps. You can order through alibaba.com to be safe. She was very responsive before and after sale on alibaba.com and on whatsapp. I had setup issue and she helped me resolve it within minutes through whatsapp.


I think I found it on alibaba. The prices range from $450-$700 and sizes from 80-120 inch. You have to inquire to get the latest price but I'm assuming that the 120 inch will be in that 700-ish price range since its the largest size available. How was shipping? Did it take a long time?


----------



## gr7383448

joflow said:


> I think I found it on alibaba. The prices range from $450-$700 and sizes from 80-120 inch. You have to inquire to get the latest price but I'm assuming that the 120 inch will be in that 700-ish price range since its the largest size available. How was shipping? Did it take a long time?


It was 3 years ago when i ordered it, i would say it came within 2 weeks, around $1100 for 120 inch Alr thin edge frame shipped. I remember shipping was really expensive. I know they just started making 150 inch stitched but say it’s hard to notice the stitch. I have no experience with that one.


----------



## blursch

joflow said:


> I figured as much and was leaning that way. Just wanted to get an opinion from someone with direct experience.
> 
> So looks like I can get a 123 inch Aeon CLR 3 series for $1677 direct from EliteScreens. There is also a seller on Amazon selling the 115 inch Aeon CLR 3 for around $1500. But I could just get the LS800 bundled with a SilverFlex 120 ALR inch screen and it would come out to $2000 for the screen. Epson sells that screen on their site for $3000 so its effectively a $1000 discount. Is the SilverFlex worth the extra $500? Not having ever seen any of these screens before (or even an UST), I really don't have any context to make judgement calls on whether a $3000 screen selling for $2000 is worth the $500 premium over a $1500 screen.



In germany the normal price for the epson 120"screen is 1.223,94 € if bought via the EPSON Website and you can buy the screen at a reseller for ~900€.


So the price of 3000 USD is kinda a bad joke....


Does someone know, if i can use a clr screen to overcome contrast loss caused by the reflection of the white walls in my living room (night scenario all lights off)?

Or would be a white screen just fine?


----------



## mcollin6

joflow said:


> Any opinions on what the cheapest 120 inch ALR screen that gives acceptable results paired with a LS800 would be? Would the WEMAX 120 inch ALR/CLR screen get the job done? They are about $600-$700 dollars and that is around half as much as the next cheapest screen that I've seen. Going in a daylight basement room without light control. So its not super bright but its not super dark either and I can put up blackout curtains to contain light coming from the nearest window (though there is also a large door with big windows that has blinds but I don't want to do curtains over it).
> 
> Wondering if the 4000 ansi lumens makes the cheaper screens more viable. I'm looking for good enough performance during the day and great performance at night. I'd rather not spend $2000 on a screen but I also don't want to spend $3500 on a projector and get subpar results because I cheaped out on the screen. First UST so I have no direct experience with any of this stuff.


This is the LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Anything made for a UST will look better than this. Would you find this acceptable?


----------



## 1nquisitive

blursch said:


> In germany the normal price for the epson 120"screen is 1.223,94 € if bought via the EPSON Website and you can buy the screen at a reseller for ~900€.
> 
> 
> So the price of 3000 USD is kinda a bad joke....
> 
> 
> Does someone know, if i can use a clr screen to overcome contrast loss caused by the reflection of the white walls in my living room (night scenario all lights off)?
> 
> Or would be a white screen just fine?


Yup, a CLR screen will help with light bounce in your viewing environment.


----------



## joflow

mcollin6 said:


> This is the LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Anything made for a UST will look better than this. Would you find this acceptable?
> View attachment 3356374


Looks great to my eyes. Would the short throw alr reduce the light spill?


----------



## tjsadler

For those of you looking at a 120" range screen look at Akia. They're the same company as Elite as best as I can tell. Their 123" is about $1,150 for the CLR4. I'm fairly sure the 123" from each company is the exact same product but with a ~$3-400 price difference. I ordered from XY Screens as I wanted larger. My previous screen was 135" and I ordered a 140" CLR screen from them last week. I'll update with some pics once it arrives.


----------



## gr7383448

tjsadler said:


> For those of you looking at a 120" range screen look at Akia. They're the same company as Elite as best as I can tell. Their 123" is about $1,150 for the CLR4. I'm fairly sure the 123" from each company is the exact same product but with a ~$3-400 price difference. I ordered from XY Screens as I wanted larger. My previous screen was 135" and I ordered a 140" CLR screen from them last week. I'll update with some pics once it arrives.


Wouldn’t you want ALR not CLR for ultra short throw? What was the cost shipped?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

gr7383448 said:


> Wouldn’t you want ALR not CLR for ultra short throw? What was the cost shipped?


I believe they both are essentially the same...
IE: they reject light from above.....
Perhaps an ALR also has some side light rejection capability...don't really know, perhaps others can chime in....


----------



## tjsadler

gr7383448 said:


> Wouldn’t you want ALR not CLR for ultra short throw? What was the cost shipped?


All CLR (Ceiling Light Rejecting) screens are ALR (Ambient Light Rejecting) but not all ALR are CLR. Like all oaks are trees but not all trees are oaks. For UST you want a lenticular CLR screen which is a type of ALR screen. ALR screens are typically for long throw projectors and are a higher gain reflective type of surface which does not work with a UST.


----------



## 1nquisitive

tjsadler said:


> All CLR (Ceiling Light Rejecting) screens are ALR (Ambient Light Rejecting) but not all ALR are CLR. Like all oaks are trees but not all trees are oaks. For UST you want a lenticular CLR screen which is a type of ALR screen. ALR screens are typically for long throw projectors and are a higher gain reflective type of surface which does not work with a UST.


Right. Folks considering these types of screens need to be very specific about the use case. An ALR screen for standard throw will not pair well with a UST projector. A CLR screen for UST will not pair well with standard throw.

I did the latter some time ago and can confirm it wrecks the image.


----------



## tjsadler

1nquisitive said:


> Right. Folks considering these types of screens need to be very specific about the use case. An ALR screen for standard throw will not pair well with a UST projector. A CLR screen for UST will not pair well with standard throw.
> 
> I did the latter some time ago and can confirm it wrecks the image.


And I did the former which is also not great!


----------



## aerodynamics

mcollin6 said:


> This is the LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Anything made for a UST will look better than this. Would you find this acceptable?
> View attachment 3356374


The light spill from above is affecting the top of the image (which a CLR screen would fix). Otherwise it looks good.


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone know a way to connect fire tv remote to the epson projector? I tried going into Epson bluetooth connect setting to connect just the remote by holding home button down and another button down but was unsuccessful. It’s nothing more than liking the feel of the fire tv remote.


----------



## Winters93

I would like to connect the Epson to my Harmony, but I can't find a solution there either, is there one here?


----------



## gr7383448

If anyone knows other compatible remotes for this projector, that will be a great help.


----------



## gr7383448

Winters93 said:


> I would like to connect the Epson to my Harmony, but I can't find a solution there either, is there one here?


I figured it out, looks like they fixed it after i did the update, now Bluetooth remotes can be paired by going to settings on the android operating system then remotes & accessories, add accessory, put the device in the pair mode.


----------



## mcollin6

joflow said:


> Looks great to my eyes. Would the short throw alr reduce the light spill?


Yes, exactly! Also overall brightness consistency should be improved quite a bit, especially getting rid of the hot spot bottom center.


----------



## mcollin6

1nquisitive said:


> Right. Folks considering these types of screens need to be very specific about the use case. An ALR screen for standard throw will not pair well with a UST projector. A CLR screen for UST will not pair well with standard throw.
> 
> I did the latter some time ago and can confirm it wrecks the image.


I have to disagree with you a bit based on these pictures.

How wrecked was the image? Here are some pictures of an LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Exactly how much worse is yours?


----------



## mcollin6

tjsadler said:


> And I did the former which is also not great!


Mine looks pretty good!


----------



## 1nquisitive

mcollin6 said:


> I have to disagree with you a bit based on these pictures.
> 
> How wrecked was the image? Here are some pictures of an LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Exactly how much worse is yours?
> View attachment 3356844
> 
> View attachment 3356845
> 
> View attachment 3356846


As mentioned in my comment, I did standard throw onto a UST screen, which tanked the brightness (as expected) and also had a line of shimmer from the bulb that went down the center of the image.

At the time, I had my standard throw 6050UB with a pull down screen (non-ALR), and behind it a 120" CLR screen for evaluating the LS500 and LSP9T. As an experiment, I put the standard 6050 on the UST screen, just to see how it looked, and it was understandably terrible. 

If you're happy with the image quality in your current setup, then that's all that matters. 

My only point is that if you use a screen that was actually designed for the type of projector you have, the image will be even better.


----------



## schumy

mcollin6 said:


> I am curious as to why there is such emphasis on black levels. For the users here, what percentage of viewing do you do in a fully dark room? It seems to me that if you spend the majority of your time viewing in a room with significant ambient light (as most USTs are marketed) black levels would be less important than brightness. Even with a very low gain screen (0.4 or so) wouldn’t the black floor would be pretty high most of the time, negating any advantage that a low black level projector has?
> 
> What am I misunderstanding?
> 
> I have an LS800 on the way, and about a dozen different UST ALR material samples gathered from SI, da-lite, Draper, Stewart, ES, ES Pro, Spectra, Silver Ticket, Screen Pro and Vivid Storm, along with some matte white samples. I was going to compare all of them with a black/white checker board as well as a RGB pattern at various laser levels and ambient light conditions (measured with a light meter from all directions) to see which gave both the best black floor (should be lowest gain) as well as best apparent over all contrast range (includes bright end of spectrum). The RGB pattern should e help evaluate how colors pop on the screen as well. It was interesting to me that more than one manufacturer recommended that I use a non-UST material, either grey or even with some positive gain.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in me posting the results, and/or can you make suggestions as to what I should look at/test in the process?


IMHO black level (contrast) is very important if the not the most in choosing a UST projector, because it is the one single area that is falling way behind any OLED/LCD tv, and it makes the otherwise huge immersive video appears to be dull and flat (OLED's deep black and contrast makes the image pop and 3D-ish). All other aspects of an UST generally beat an OLED tv (price, convenience, much lower weight/portability, huge image size/immersiveness) or comparable (colour, 4K sharpness).

I have been using a 4K HDR 0.47" DLP chip UST for almost 4 years, I like it a lot but everytime i use it I wish I could upgrade to a new gen UST with better black level/contrast performance, cause its black is honestly just dark grey. Everything else with this 4 year old UST I am still pretty happy and contented with.


----------



## mcollin6

schumy said:


> IMHO black level (contrast) is very important if the not the most in choosing a UST projector, because it is the one single area that is falling way behind any OLED/LCD tv, and it makes the otherwise huge immersive video appears to be dull and flat (OLED's deep black and contrast makes the image pop and 3D-ish). All other aspects of an UST generally beat an OLED tv (price, convenience, much lower weight/portability, huge image size/immersiveness) or comparable (colour, 4K sharpness).
> 
> I have been using a 4K HDR 0.47" DLP chip UST for almost 4 years, I like it a lot but everytime i use it I wish I could upgrade to a new gen UST with better black level/contrast performance, cause its black is honestly just dark grey. Everything else with this 4 year old UST I am still pretty happy and contented with.


Do you use it in a fully dark room, or one with ambient light? If a dark room, why did you choose a UST over better performing short throw or long throw projectors?


----------



## tjsadler

mcollin6 said:


> I have to disagree with you a bit based on these pictures.
> 
> How wrecked was the image? Here are some pictures of an LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Exactly how much worse is yours?


My ALR screen was a 1.4 gain silvery material. Was it watchable with the UST on it? Sure, but it wasn't great. Probably in a dark room it could have looked close to what you're showing but in person the hotspot was way worse than what shows up in pictures and the upper corners were quite dim. When you got up and walked by the screen the hotspot followed you around as it was at its worst wherever the angle between your eyes and the projector were. You could actually see a blurry version of the picture on the ceiling above the screen because it was reflecting off the screen onto the ceiling. I just rolled a flat gray paint over the screen and it looks a LOT better now. Definitely good enough to watch while I wait for my new screen to come in.


----------



## Odysea

mcollin6 said:


> I have to disagree with you a bit based on these pictures.
> 
> How wrecked was the image? Here are some pictures of an LS800 onto a LONG THROW ALR screen. Exactly how much worse is yours?
> View attachment 3356844
> 
> View attachment 3356845
> 
> View attachment 3356846


But why buy a screen that’s not designed for your projectors use case? IIRC long throw Alr is from the center in a circular direction outward while UST ALR is from the bottom.

Also, it looks like you closed the blinds making the ALR a fairly moot point. ALR is meant for y’know… ambient light. If there’s no ambient light, stands to reason there would be no degradation😉

Just my 2c, but I’m not an expert


----------



## kimjames220

Received mine a week ago from projectorscreen.com and noticed on the bottom left side there is a stuck/dead pixel (it's pink). Is this something common for these LCD type projectors or should I go ahead with the RMA process? Don't really notice it unless its a white background and I force myself to look towards that corner. But you know, once you see it, it's hard not to keep looking D:


----------



## got_hd-dvd

I've had my LS800 for less than a week, enjoying it so far. It's paired with a Elitescreens Kestrel Tab-Tension CLR, 101" Diag. 16:9, Ultra-Short Throw (CLR/ALR) Electric Floor-Rising Projector Screen FTE101XH2-CLR in my well lit living room. So far so good, picture quality is more then fine plus I've adjusted the settings to match Dave Harper's from his review. But here's the thing, fan noise. It's there, and it is audible certainly to me in my room. Right now while I write this I've got a Blu-ray paused, the disc screen saver is running, and I'm listening to the radio at a low volume. I'm about 12 feet from the Epson LS800 and the fan is still audible. Now it's not even really a problem, definitely not with actual content playing, but is this unusual or unexpected for the Epson?

I also have a BenQ v7050i that I use in a dedicated theater room, paired with a VIVIDSTORM S PRO P 120inch ALR Ultra Short throw VSDSTUST120HP screen, and that unit is very quiet,


----------



## kimjames220

got_hd-dvd said:


> I've had my LS800 for less than a week, enjoying it so far. It's paired with a Elitescreens Kestrel Tab-Tension CLR, 101" Diag. 16:9, Ultra-Short Throw (CLR/ALR) Electric Floor-Rising Projector Screen FTE101XH2-CLR in my well lit living room. So far so good, picture quality is more then fine plus I've adjusted the settings to match Dave Harper's from his review. But here's the thing, fan noise. It's there, and it is audible certainly to me in my room. Right now while I write this I've got a Blu-ray paused, the disc screen saver is running, and I'm listening to the radio at a low volume. I'm about 12 feet from the Epson LS800 and the fan is still audible. Now it's not even really a problem, definitely not with actual content playing, but is this unusual or unexpected for the Epson?
> 
> I also have a BenQ v7050i that I use in a dedicated theater room, paired with a VIVIDSTORM S PRO P 120inch ALR Ultra Short throw VSDSTUST120HP screen, and that unit is very quiet,


For me the fan noise is only audible when the brightness is above 70% or so. I can't really tell the difference between 70% and 100% brightness so turned off auto brightness and set it around there. Would be nice not to have to do that but it is what works for me.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

got_hd-dvd said:


> I've had my LS800 for less than a week, enjoying it so far. It's paired with a Elitescreens Kestrel Tab-Tension CLR, 101" Diag. 16:9, Ultra-Short Throw (CLR/ALR) Electric Floor-Rising Projector Screen FTE101XH2-CLR in my well lit living room. So far so good, picture quality is more then fine plus I've adjusted the settings to match Dave Harper's from his review. But here's the thing, fan noise. It's there, and it is audible certainly to me in my room. Right now while I write this I've got a Blu-ray paused, the disc screen saver is running, and I'm listening to the radio at a low volume. I'm about 12 feet from the Epson LS800 and the fan is still audible. Now it's not even really a problem, definitely not with actual content playing, but is this unusual or unexpected for the Epson?
> 
> I also have a BenQ v7050i that I use in a dedicated theater room, paired with a VIVIDSTORM S PRO P 120inch ALR Ultra Short throw VSDSTUST120HP screen, and that unit is very quiet,


There may be some unit to unit variability in the L800 series. Some have reported fan noise issues ( See kraine's excellent review) others 
(see Dave Harper's review ) have not.

My unit with brightness in the 75 to 80 percent range is Whisper Quiet. Its only noticeable in a quiet room on initial turn on, after that it's not noticeable . I sit approximately 12 feet from the L800. 

The only time I noticed any objectionable noise was when the room ambient temperature was very high, ( around 90 degrees) during a warm weather period we had in So. CALIFORNIA . Then the fan kicked into another gear and I could hear it. But even then , while noticeable, I was still able to enjoy what I was watching. 
We all have different thresholds as to what bothers us so .....YMMV. 

CHEERS....


----------



## mcollin6

tjsadler said:


> My ALR screen was a 1.4 gain silvery material. Was it watchable with the UST on it? Sure, but it wasn't great. Probably in a dark room it could have looked close to what you're showing but in person the hotspot was way worse than what shows up in pictures and the upper corners were quite dim. When you got up and walked by the screen the hotspot followed you around as it was at its worst wherever the angle between your eyes and the projector were. You could actually see a blurry version of the picture on the ceiling above the screen because it was reflecting off the screen onto the ceiling. I just rolled a flat gray paint over the screen and it looks a LOT better now. Definitely good enough to watch while I wait for my new screen to come in.


1.4 gain has a pretty small viewing cone! I could actually see you having the same issue with a long throw projector, since the 1/2 gain would probably be around 30 degrees. My ES screen is only 1.2, and the drop off is pretty flat in the 15-45 degree range, so it looks decent, if not perfect. I guess it can’t be a catch all statement and depends on the specific ALR material properties.


----------



## mcollin6

Odysea said:


> But why buy a screen that’s not designed for your projectors use case? IIRC long throw Alr is from the center in a circular direction outward while UST ALR is from the bottom.
> 
> Also, it looks like you closed the blinds making the ALR a fairly moot point. ALR is meant for y’know… ambient light. If there’s no ambient light, stands to reason there would be no degradation😉
> 
> Just my 2c, but I’m not an expert


So, you wouldn’t, but if you have an existing LT ALR screen, it won’t be unwatchable if the material is similar to what I have. Will a made-for-UST ALR look better? I hope so! But if you have to use an LT screen, it is still viewable.

There is enough ambient light in the room to read a book by as you’re standing next to the screen. I’m waiting on my last sample of material to do a high ambient light evaluation in the next week or so. Just as soon as I can get the Spectra material from @ProjectionHead. He’s waiting for samples from the company. I’ll include 0 Lux - 100 Lux ambient light conditions and take some pictures to post here.


----------



## robl2

Kyle Gallagher said:


> View attachment 3354939


Which screen is that? Looks great!


----------



## robl2

Gwreck said:


> I have the HDFury Arcana and am using the same setting I used for the ls500 and it seems to handle tone mapping really well. I force my appletv 4k for DV for all output and it looks great. None of the highlights ever looked blown out.


What did you set HDR mode, custom value, boost value, min & max nits to in your Arcana?


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

robl2 said:


> Which screen is that? Looks great!


Thank you sir. It's an XY screens 120".


----------



## Gwreck

robl2 said:


> What did you set HDR mode, custom value, boost value, min & max nits to in your Arcana?





robl2 said:


> What did you set HDR mode, custom value, boost value, min & max nits to in your Arcana?


Since I mainly use an Apple TV as a source I set the Apple TV output to DV and match frame rate but no dynamic range as it seems to have a bit more control over HDR 10 signal that are packaged as DV from the ATV. SDR is also packaged as DV and the ATV does a good job of not blowing out the colors
I turned on LLDV-HDR10 and I kept the max luminance at 100 as that is typical projector HDR brightness and I was using that setting for my ls500 to avoiding blowing out the highlights. I watched aquaman in these settings and it looks bright and punchy without good detail in the highlights. It’s pretty clear that the tone mapping of the ls8000 is much better than the ls500.

if anyone has better setting please let me know as there is tons to read online about the HDFURY stuff and I don’t have enough time to absorb it all.


----------



## Winters93

Is my Epson defective or am I doing something wrong?

I have switched off my Epson several times now and then went to work, when I come back in the evening the Epson is running again. Does it keep turning on after a period of time?


----------



## Fox_10

Did you press the On/Off button short or long?

The projector will only turn off completely if you long press and then confirm "Turn off" in the menu.

But you can also set it to turn off with a short button press in the main menu....


----------



## Winters93

Yes, briefly pressed.
Long pressed and confirmed.

I've been to the menu.. always comes back to...!


Another topic about live 4K picture with HLG is there no solution?
Is there expert Epson support to contact?
The HDR setting does not react to HLG material, below is a comparison of the football World Cup broadcaster in HD and UHD.


----------



## mcollin6

Winters93 said:


> Yes, briefly pressed.
> Long pressed and confirmed.
> 
> I've been to the menu.. always comes back to...!
> 
> 
> Another topic about live 4K picture with HLG is there no solution?
> Is there expert Epson support to contact?
> The HDR setting does not react to HLG material, below is a comparison of the football World Cup broadcaster in HD and UHD.
> View attachment 3357628
> 
> View attachment 3357629


Try turning off CEC. It may be getting signal from elsewhere in your chain and starting up. I was having that happen while listening to music. Also, the short press puts it into sleep mode. It may be trying to download a firmware update which makes it turn on. Check for update and manually install.


----------



## noonsa

Winters93 said:


> View attachment 3357628
> 
> View attachment 3357629


What media stand is that?


----------



## Jeryd

Something in your chain of home theater devices is still on. I had to turn off the arc. My Verizon box does not fully shut off so my av receiver passes the signal along and would power up the projector. I shut off that option in one of the menus and now it doesn't turn on anymore. I am at work at the moment and can't remember the exact toggle.


----------



## jelloe

I'm thinking about purchasing the LS800 and bundle it with the Silverflex Ultra ALR screen, but is the Silverflex also considered a CLR screen? Saw something that said all CLR are ALR, but not all ALR are CLR.


----------



## 1nquisitive

jelloe said:


> I'm thinking about purchasing the LS800 and bundle it with the Silverflex Ultra ALR screen, but is the Silverflex also considered a CLR screen? Saw something that said all CLR are ALR, but not all ALR are CLR.


The Silverflex from Epson is CLR, and made to be used with USTs, including Epson's LS300, LS500, and LS800.

There are other screens available that are just as good (likely) and more affordable. I've used Elite Screens CLR, others in this thread also seem to like XY Screens and Vividstorm.


----------



## anethema

jelloe said:


> I'm thinking about purchasing the LS800 and bundle it with the Silverflex Ultra ALR screen, but is the Silverflex also considered a CLR screen? Saw something that said all CLR are ALR, but not all ALR are CLR.


Ya. Basically, ALR means it rejects amblient light. CLR means it rejects mostly light from above. Since rejecting light from above is rejecting ambient light to some degree, that means CLR screens are classed as ALR. CLR screens do this with tiny ridges that bounce light from the ceiling away or absorb them, while the other side of the ridge bounces light from the projector to the viewer.

But there are other types of ALR screens like fresnel screens which reject light from any direction except below. These are better for rejecting light from windows etc but come at the cost of having the viewing angles be a lot lower for side to side viewing.


----------



## 3sprit

Winters93 said:


> Yes, briefly pressed.


OT: how does your Teufel system sound? Thank you.
I find a lot of advertising but I don't find reviews.


----------



## robl2

Gwreck said:


> Since I mainly use an Apple TV as a source I set the Apple TV output to DV and match frame rate but no dynamic range as it seems to have a bit more control over HDR 10 signal that are packaged as DV from the ATV. SDR is also packaged as DV and the ATV does a good job of not blowing out the colors
> I turned on LLDV-HDR10 and I kept the max luminance at 100 as that is typical projector HDR brightness and I was using that setting for my ls500 to avoiding blowing out the highlights. I watched aquaman in these settings and it looks bright and punchy without good detail in the highlights. It’s pretty clear that the tone mapping of the ls8000 is much better than the ls500.
> 
> if anyone has better setting please let me know as there is tons to read online about the HDFURY stuff and I don’t have enough time to absorb it all.


Hey thanks so much for the response, appreciate it! It sounds like you left all the other Arcana settings to their defaults then?


----------



## PixelPusher15

Just finalized my review for the LS800 and it should be on Home Theater Review next week. It did well and surprised me in a few areas. Nice lil...err big projecter. Sucker is wide lol


----------



## ThorHammer

hey,
i am interested in the 120'' Epson Silverflex screen for my new LS800,
but i cannot find any datasheet of this screen.

Does anyone know the gain of the Silverflex ultra?
and is it a CLR screen? 

can you recommend it for the LS800?


----------



## Toleedo

I got a ls800 and powered it up last night. Did the SW and then FW update…and now there’s no image. The unit just turns on with the fans incredibly loud. LED is solid blue, then flashes blue for awhile, and then flashes orange. I think it got bricked during the update somehow.
I was really looking forward to watching sports on this device this weekend too.
Anyone else encounter this?


----------



## tjsadler

Toleedo said:


> I got a ls800 and powered it up last night. Did the SW and then FW update…and now there’s no image. The unit just turns on with the fans incredibly loud. LED is solid blue, then flashes blue for awhile, and then flashes orange. I think it got bricked during the update somehow.
> I was really looking forward to watching sports on this device this weekend too.
> Anyone else encounter this?


Mine did that. After about a half hour I unplugged it and waited a minute and plugged it back in. It then restarted a couple times and finished the firmware update.


----------



## gr7383448

Toleedo said:


> I got a ls800 and powered it up last night. Did the SW and then FW update…and now there’s no image. The unit just turns on with the fans incredibly loud. LED is solid blue, then flashes blue for awhile, and then flashes orange. I think it got bricked during the update somehow.
> I was really looking forward to watching sports on this device this weekend too.
> Anyone else encounter this?


That first update i did on mine turned it off then the fan started running really loud. I thought it was annoying but i left it alone for a little while to let it finish what it was doing. Everything normal after that. Key is to let it finish what it was doing.


----------



## Toleedo

gr7383448 said:


> That first update i did on mine turned it off then the fan started running really loud. I thought it was annoying but i left it alone for a little while to let it finish what it was doing. Everything normal after that. Key is to let it finish what it was doing.


I left mine to do it’s thing for well over 30 mins (probably closer to an hour) last night, and it never came back. I unplugged it at that point, and plugged it back in this morning. Fans kick off loud, and the lights go from solid blue to blinking blue to blinking orange. Blinking orange according to the manual doesn’t sound like a good thing.Maybe I’ll plug it back in one more time and see what happens, but I’m most likely going to exchange it.

thank you to everyone for the feedback.


----------



## Gwreck

robl2 said:


> Hey thanks so much for the response, appreciate it! It sounds like you left all the other Arcana settings to their defaults then?


Yes and it seems to work well.


----------



## mcollin6

Toleedo said:


> I left mine to do it’s thing for well over 30 mins (probably closer to an hour) last night, and it never came back. I unplugged it at that point, and plugged it back in this morning. Fans kick off loud, and the lights go from solid blue to blinking blue to blinking orange. Blinking orange according to the manual doesn’t sound like a good thing.Maybe I’ll plug it back in one more time and see what happens, but I’m most likely going to exchange it.
> 
> thank you to everyone for the feedback.


Try resetting your wireless router. It may have dropped the connection.


----------



## Fox_10

Has anyone heard anything about whether a CMS will be added?

At first I was pretty sure, because the LS 500 also has one.
But since it has a completely different menu system, I'm not so sure anymore...


----------



## blursch

ThorHammer said:


> hey,
> i am interested in the 120'' Epson Silverflex screen for my new LS800,
> but i cannot find any datasheet of this screen.
> 
> Does anyone know the gain of the Silverflex ultra?
> and is it a CLR screen?
> 
> can you recommend it for the LS800?


Some time ago i found a pdf from epson. If i remenber right, it has a gain of 0.6. I try to find the document again, but could only find the manuel: just type in google search "ELPSC36 filetype: pdf".

The 120" silverflex is called ELPSC36 and the partnumber is V12H002AM0.

Here you can find extra infos: SilverFlex Ultra 120-inch | SilverFlex Ultra 120" Ambient Light Rejecting Super Mega Screen | EPSON | AV-iQ


up to 90% ambient light reduction and 180° viewing angle......

you can get the screen from a reseller in germany for about 900€ just ask him via ebay.


----------



## mcollin6

Not sure how many people care about stuff like this, but I thought I’d take some output measurements at various laser levels and see whether or not the laser needed a warm up. I used Dave Harper’s settings unless otherwise specified with the projector showing a pure white picture.

My findings:

1) Light output continues to rise through about the first 30 minutes of operation. It goes up by about 10%. Blanking the screen resets this condition and it drops to start up levels, but it only takes 5-10 minutes to get back up to the same steady state.

2) Dave Harper settings with 0% laser - 850 lumen output
3) Dave Harper settings with 50% laser 1920 lumen output
4) Dave Harper settings with 100% laser - 2990 lumen output
5) Dave Harper settings with 100% laser, but max out color temp - 3320 lumen output
6) Same as 5) but change warm wall to white wall “installation color - 4025 lumen output
7) 6) but also max out brightness (not recommended, but wanted to see highest output) - 4140 lumen output

All but the last provided a viewable picture, if not accurate.


----------



## ThorHammer

blursch said:


> Some time ago i found a pdf from epson. If i remenber right, it has a gain of 0.6. I try to find the document again, but could only find the manuel: just type in google search "ELPSC36 filetype: pdf".
> 
> The 120" silverflex is called ELPSC36 and the partnumber is V12H002AM0.
> 
> Here you can find extra infos: SilverFlex Ultra 120-inch | SilverFlex Ultra 120" Ambient Light Rejecting Super Mega Screen | EPSON | AV-iQ
> 
> 
> up to 90% ambient light reduction and 180° viewing angle......
> 
> you can get the screen from a reseller in germany for about 900€ just ask him via ebay.


thank you, yes i found the manual too and these data , but unfortunately no information about *gain* of the silverflex screen, 
i hope you can find the source of your 0.6 value to be confirmed. would be great.
thanks

is the reseller in ebay reliable?


----------



## mcollin6

ThorHammer said:


> thank you, yes i found the manual too and these data , but unfortunately no information about *gain* of the silverflex screen,
> i hope you can find the source of your 0.6 value to be confirmed. would be great.
> thanks
> 
> is the reseller in ebay reliable?


When I called to ask for a screen material sample, I was told it is 0.6.


----------



## blursch

ThorHammer said:


> thank you, yes i found the manual too and these data , but unfortunately no information about *gain* of the silverflex screen,
> i hope you can find the source of your 0.6 value to be confirmed. would be great.
> thanks
> 
> is the reseller in ebay reliable?


Sorry, i can not find it anymore, but i found this website and they claim a gain of 0.5: https://www.purple-cat.co.uk/epson-fixed-frame-elpsc36.html

Concerning the reseller (beamerpro), yes direct experience in the family with buying epson beamer and he is a official epson reseller. Always open for a proposed price.


----------



## Winters93

I try again with the question what is the difference between HDMI1 and HDMI3 (Game), or the disadvantage?

I really like Hdmi 3 in the long run and I don't always have to switch before I turn on my PS5.


----------



## slowgraffiti

Winters93 said:


> I try again with the question what is the difference between HDMI1 and HDMI3 (Game), or the disadvantage? I really like Hdmi 3 in the long run and I don't always have to switch before I turn on my PS5.


 As far as i can tell, not a lot. The main two differences,:there is no ARC on HDMI 3 (only on HDMI2), and you have to drop to the home menu to change any settings. Other possible difference: i read there is less processing. i guess that means stuff like the image smoothing that i always turn off anyway cause it makes films look like soap operas. i may be wrong on this? I've had mine set up through HDMI 3 and found no issues.


----------



## slowgraffiti

Toleedo said:


> I got a ls800 and powered it up last night. Did the SW and then FW update…and now there’s no image. The unit just turns on with the fans incredibly loud. LED is solid blue, then flashes blue for awhile, and then flashes orange. I think it got bricked during the update somehow.
> I was really looking forward to watching sports on this device this weekend too.
> Anyone else encounter this?


exact same thing happened to me, half way thorugh firmware update orange light flashed. it never cameabck on. Took back to shop who replaced it for me same day, no issues with replacements firmware update


----------



## anethema

slowgraffiti said:


> exact same thing happened to me, half way thorugh firmware update orange light flashed. it never cameabck on. Took back to shop who replaced it for me same day, no issues with replacements firmware update


Haha I’m scared to update the firmware when I get mine now. I live in northern canada returns prob be a couple weeks


----------



## monip585

Lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## robl2

I seem to recall someone said the remote is bluetooth? But looking at the manual it seems to imply it's infrared or perhaps both? Anyone know?

Also, has anyone tried hooking up a USB keyboard or gamepad to control the menu etc.?


----------



## blursch

robl2 said:


> I seem to recall someone said the remote is bluetooth? But looking at the manual it seems to imply it's infrared or perhaps both? Anyone know?
> 
> Also, has anyone tried hooking up a USB keyboard or gamepad to control the menu etc.?


It seems to be two remotes in one. Bluetooth pairing was asked at the first setup of the beamer. The bluetooth part seems to be only for the android tv inside the beamer.
The remote has on his front the typical infrared cap and behind the speaker coverage is the infrared receiver located.

I connected a bluetooth headphone. This is just possible within androidtv and could not be used via hdmi input......kinda disappointing


----------



## JagNL

got_hd-dvd said:


> I've had my LS800 for less than a week, enjoying it so far. It's paired with a Elitescreens Kestrel Tab-Tension CLR, 101" Diag. 16:9, Ultra-Short Throw (CLR/ALR) Electric Floor-Rising Projector Screen FTE101XH2-CLR in my well lit living room. So far so good, picture quality is more then fine plus I've adjusted the settings to match Dave Harper's from his review. But here's the thing, fan noise. It's there, and it is audible certainly to me in my room. Right now while I write this I've got a Blu-ray paused, the disc screen saver is running, and I'm listening to the radio at a low volume. I'm about 12 feet from the Epson LS800 and the fan is still audible. Now it's not even really a problem, definitely not with actual content playing, but is this unusual or unexpected for the Epson?
> 
> I also have a BenQ v7050i that I use in a dedicated theater room, paired with a VIVIDSTORM S PRO P 120inch ALR Ultra Short throw VSDSTUST120HP screen, and that unit is very quiet,


How does the Benq compare in terms of color/black level/focus to the ls800?


----------



## got_hd-dvd

JagNL said:


> How does the Benq compare in terms of color/black level/focus to the ls800?


I can't really say because of the different way I'm using them. The BenQ and Vividstorm 120 inch screen are in my large dedicated light controlled theater room. I use this projector 100% for movies using the internal Filmmaker Mode settings. The room has 7.6.4 surround sound and theater seats. Watching the BenQ reminds me of viewing a good commercial theatrical presentation. 

The Epson is in my living room with the 100 inch Elite screen. Very little (none) light control. Sofa and armchair for seating. 3.2.2 audio system. Almost exclusively used for video games and TV shows. Epson is using the Dave Harper recommended settings. I've only had the Epson a few weeks but after adjusting the settings I will say I am enjoying it a lot. I use the game HDMI input for my Xbox and my Oppo UDP-203 is on the HDMI ARC input. I've only watched few blu-rays (rewatching my Battlestar Galactica 2004 series box set) and that looks really good. I haven't tried any 4K discs yet.

S to sum things up I guess I'm not the most critical end user out there, I bought the BenQ for my dedicated room because of the good reviews and it worked out fine, I bought the Epson because I wanted a larger display for my living room and didn't want to spend the money for a 100 inch direct view (Sony, Samsung) TV. And before I bought the BenQ I tried the Hisense-PX1-PRO in my dedicated theater only to find out I'm susceptible to the rainbow effect, and I returned that projector . Hope this helps.


----------



## muhur

Does this projector have an in built media player? Can .mkv files from an usb device be played?


----------



## mcollin6

PixelPusher15 said:


> Just finalized my review for the LS800 and it should be on Home Theater Review next week. It did well and surprised me in a few areas. Nice lil...err big projecter. Sucker is wide lol


From the review…”The lack of adjustability on the third foot of the projector proved to make my job of aligning the projector a bit more tedious than I desired but overall the process wasn’t too bad.“ All three of the feet in mine are adjustable. I wonder if you had a stuck one.

Also, I didn’t see anything in there as to how the laser output level effected the picture in screen. Did changes in the laser level affect the color tracking or black levels?


----------



## PixelPusher15

mcollin6 said:


> From the review…”The lack of adjustability on the third foot of the projector proved to make my job of aligning the projector a bit more tedious than I desired but overall the process wasn’t too bad.“ All three of the feet in mine are adjustable. I wonder if you had a stuck one.
> 
> Also, I didn’t see anything in there as to how the laser output level effected the picture in screen. Did changes in the laser level affect the color tracking or black levels?


Ha! Yeah, it was stuck. I really had to crank on it but I did get it to adjust. Didn’t try to hard before because I have broken things like that before, haha. (Edit: looks like my editor saw your comment already and adjusted the review. Thanks for catching that!)

I didn’t test color tracking with different laser output. I did all my testing at 100% and in Cinema it tracked well and nothing looked amiss. Gamut coverage also was in spec at 100%. Black levels will adjust proportionally with peak white so yeah, you can reduce black level but you also reduce white. I found that I wanted the light output to make bright scenes pop since this is what the projector is really good at. Reducing laser level didn’t help too much with the dark scenes for me personally. I’d use this projector at either 70% output for the quieter fan or 100%.

Hope you liked the review other than that 😉


----------



## Winters93

I can't get my image perfectly aligned to the canvas. At the top in the middle there is a bow downwards, but I can't get rid of it!?


----------



## anethema

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ha! Yeah, it was stuck. I really had to crank on it but I did get it to adjust. Didn’t try to hard before because I have broken things like that before, haha. (Edit: looks like my editor saw your comment already and adjusted the review. Thanks for catching that!)
> 
> I didn’t test color tracking with different laser output. I did all my testing at 100% and in Cinema it tracked well and nothing looked amiss. Gamut coverage also was in spec at 100%. Black levels will adjust proportionally with peak white so yeah, you can reduce black level but you also reduce white. I found that I wanted the light output to make bright scenes pop since this is what the projector is really good at. Reducing laser level didn’t help too much with the dark scenes for me personally. I’d use this projector at either 70% output for the quieter fan or 100%.
> 
> Hope you liked the review other than that 😉


It still says that for me, the part about the third for being not adjustable

You also imply androidtv is the reason for the lack of picture adjustability but the Formovie has it and is also an androidtv projector.

Did you try adjusting wall color for helping set the projector colors up a bit better? The other reviewer seemed to set it to warm to get better results.


----------



## rjyap

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ha! Yeah, it was stuck. I really had to crank on it but I did get it to adjust. Didn’t try to hard before because I have broken things like that before, haha. (Edit: looks like my editor saw your comment already and adjusted the review. Thanks for catching that!)
> 
> I didn’t test color tracking with different laser output. I did all my testing at 100% and in Cinema it tracked well and nothing looked amiss. Gamut coverage also was in spec at 100%. Black levels will adjust proportionally with peak white so yeah, you can reduce black level but you also reduce white. I found that I wanted the light output to make bright scenes pop since this is what the projector is really good at. Reducing laser level didn’t help too much with the dark scenes for me personally. I’d use this projector at either 70% output for the quieter fan or 100%.
> 
> Hope you liked the review other than that 😉


Did u manage to checkout pc desktop font in 4K desktop. Someone posted earlier that 2x shifting is not good enough to resolve fine small font.


----------



## PixelPusher15

anethema said:


> It still says that for me, the part about the third for being not adjustable
> 
> You also imply androidtv is the reason for the lack of picture adjustability but the Formovie has it and is also an androidtv projector.
> 
> Did you try adjusting wall color for helping set the projector colors up a bit better? The other reviewer seemed to set it to warm to get better results.


Ope, it was still there. Looked in the wrong place. I let them know.

Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.

I did try the wall color setting but I really didn’t like that it reduced light output for every picture mode. I was able to get well over 200 nits in Dynamic on my screen but adjusting wall color and then color temp brought that down below 200. I got around 150 in Cinema without any of those adjustments, just out of the box. So that would have been reduced too. Plus, the good out of the box tracking in Cinema would have been messed up as well. I really liked having the super bright, albeit a bit inaccurate, Dynamic mode available and didn’t want to knock it down. I can see the reasoning for using wall color as a way to make the color temp better but I have a hard time recommending using it if you want other modes to stay accurate and maintain brightness.

I do wish Epson gave the more aggressive dynamic contrast of Dynamic to other modes. I’m testing the Formovie right now and the LS800 did better on the beginning of the 1917 scene in Dynamic. Later in the scene the Formovie does better once there are brighter highlights on screen. Its interesting to see the differences in each projector’s strengths

BTW, for those that haven’t seen it, here’s the link to the review: Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Review - HomeTheaterReview


----------



## PixelPusher15

rjyap said:


> Did u manage to checkout pc desktop font in 4K desktop. Someone posted earlier that 2x shifting is not good enough to resolve fine small font.


I did, and it isn’t that good. Video content looks good though. Seen this before with my 5050.


----------



## JagNL

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ope, it was still there. Looked in the wrong place. I let them know.
> 
> Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.
> 
> I did try the wall color setting but I really didn’t like that it reduced light output for every picture mode. I was able to get well over 200 nits in Dynamic on my screen but adjusting wall color and then color temp brought that down below 200. I got around 150 in Cinema without any of those adjustments, just out of the box. So that would have been reduced too. Plus, the good out of the box tracking in Cinema would have been messed up as well. I really liked having the super bright, albeit a bit inaccurate, Dynamic mode available and didn’t want to knock it down. I can see the reasoning for using wall color as a way to make the color temp better but I have a hard time recommending using it if you want other modes to stay accurate and maintain brightness.
> 
> I do wish Epson gave the more aggressive dynamic contrast of Dynamic to other modes. I’m testing the Formovie right now and the LS800 did better on the beginning of the 1917 scene in Dynamic. Later in the scene the Formovie does better once there are brighter highlights on screen. Its interesting to see the differences in each projector’s strengths
> 
> BTW, for those that haven’t seen it, here’s the link to the review: Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Review - HomeTheaterReview


Given the Formovie's blacks and wider color gamut, I'm guessing that's the preferred projector for a combo room that can be darkened, or if one prefers watching at night most of the time?


----------



## PixelPusher15

JagNL said:


> Given the Formovie's blacks and wider color gamut, I'm guessing that's the preferred projector for a combo room that can be darkened, or if one prefers watching at night most of the time?


Yeah, I’d prefer the Formovie in a darkened room and for more critical viewing. The LS800 does well on the darkest of dark stuff though due to dynamic contrast. Can’t deny the colors on that Formovie though, they are _nice._


----------



## anethema

Ya. Though having not seen it just going off reviews it seems like cinema is a good bit darker like you said, so maybe adjusting wall color etc in dynamic could be a good compromise of accurizing the imagine somewhat, while getting the brightness and dynamic contrast from dynamic mode with fast dynamic contrast.
I’ll have to play with it to see what I like.


----------



## Dave Harper

anethema said:


> It still says that for me, the part about the third for being not adjustable
> 
> You also imply androidtv is the reason for the lack of picture adjustability but the Formovie has it and is also an androidtv projector.
> 
> Did you try adjusting wall color for helping set the projector colors up a bit better? The other reviewer seemed to set it to warm to get better results.





PixelPusher15 said:


> Ope, it was still there. Looked in the wrong place. I let them know.
> 
> Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.
> 
> I did try the wall color setting but I really didn’t like that it reduced light output for every picture mode. I was able to get well over 200 nits in Dynamic on my screen but adjusting wall color and then color temp brought that down below 200. I got around 150 in Cinema without any of those adjustments, just out of the box. So that would have been reduced too. Plus, the good out of the box tracking in Cinema would have been messed up as well. I really liked having the super bright, albeit a bit inaccurate, Dynamic mode available and didn’t want to knock it down. I can see the reasoning for using wall color as a way to make the color temp better but I have a hard time recommending using it if you want other modes to stay accurate and maintain brightness.
> 
> I do wish Epson gave the more aggressive dynamic contrast of Dynamic to other modes. I’m testing the Formovie right now and the LS800 did better on the beginning of the 1917 scene in Dynamic. Later in the scene the Formovie does better once there are brighter highlights on screen. Its interesting to see the differences in each projector’s strengths
> 
> BTW, for those that haven’t seen it, here’s the link to the review: Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Review - HomeTheaterReview


From what I understand it is an extra cost from Google to get options like CMS, White Balance, etc. added to your AndroidTV menus and adjustments. So if yours doesn’t have them, it’s because the manufacturer cheapened out. 

Definitely a choice that has to be made on how to run your LS800, but it’s good to have choices. I wish Epson gave us more. 

Thanks for the review, can’t wait to read it!


----------



## Pulse1

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ope, it was still there. Looked in the wrong place. I let them know.
> 
> Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.
> 
> I did try the wall color setting but I really didn’t like that it reduced light output for every picture mode. I was able to get well over 200 nits in Dynamic on my screen but adjusting wall color and then color temp brought that down below 200. I got around 150 in Cinema without any of those adjustments, just out of the box. So that would have been reduced too. Plus, the good out of the box tracking in Cinema would have been messed up as well. I really liked having the super bright, albeit a bit inaccurate, Dynamic mode available and didn’t want to knock it down. I can see the reasoning for using wall color as a way to make the color temp better but I have a hard time recommending using it if you want other modes to stay accurate and maintain brightness.
> 
> I do wish Epson gave the more aggressive dynamic contrast of Dynamic to other modes. I’m testing the Formovie right now and the LS800 did better on the beginning of the 1917 scene in Dynamic. Later in the scene the Formovie does better once there are brighter highlights on screen. Its interesting to see the differences in each projector’s strengths
> 
> BTW, for those that haven’t seen it, here’s the link to the review: Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Review - HomeTheaterReview


Thanks for your detailed review Andy, enjoyed reading it and if I may ask you a question in relation to calibration. What version of the i1 pro did you use and at what angle distance to the screen did you have it set at?


----------



## arsenalfc89

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ope, it was still there. Looked in the wrong place. I let them know.
> 
> Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.
> 
> I did try the wall color setting but I really didn’t like that it reduced light output for every picture mode. I was able to get well over 200 nits in Dynamic on my screen but adjusting wall color and then color temp brought that down below 200. I got around 150 in Cinema without any of those adjustments, just out of the box. So that would have been reduced too. Plus, the good out of the box tracking in Cinema would have been messed up as well. I really liked having the super bright, albeit a bit inaccurate, Dynamic mode available and didn’t want to knock it down. I can see the reasoning for using wall color as a way to make the color temp better but I have a hard time recommending using it if you want other modes to stay accurate and maintain brightness.
> 
> I do wish Epson gave the more aggressive dynamic contrast of Dynamic to other modes. I’m testing the Formovie right now and the LS800 did better on the beginning of the 1917 scene in Dynamic. Later in the scene the Formovie does better once there are brighter highlights on screen. Its interesting to see the differences in each projector’s strengths
> 
> BTW, for those that haven’t seen it, here’s the link to the review: Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Review - HomeTheaterReview


Nice review. Appreciate you posting the contrast on different ADL levels as well. I agree that Dynamic is absolutely needed with this projector and if they added a CMS boy this will be a beast.


----------



## PixelPusher15

Pulse1 said:


> Thanks for your detailed review Andy, enjoyed reading it and if I may ask you a question in relation to calibration. What version of the i1 pro did you use and at what angle distance to the screen did you have it set at?


i1 Display Pro (not plus) and it was positioned about a meter away at the angle of viewing. (I use my white screen for measurements). I have the i1 Pro 2 spectro as well for profiling, just got that guy.


----------



## Toleedo

slowgraffiti said:


> exact same thing happened to me, half way thorugh firmware update orange light flashed. it never cameabck on. Took back to shop who replaced it for me same day, no issues with replacements firmware update


Yeah, I talked to Epson support and there is no recovery from the flashing orange light. I returned mine to Best Buy and should have a new one arriving in the next couple of days. Luckily, I still have a Wemax Nova laying around that I was evaluating that I can use until then. I really notice the rainbow effect with that projector, but otherwise its pretty solid - though you do have to crank the brightness on hdr content.


----------



## rjyap

PixelPusher15 said:


> Yeah, I’d prefer the Formovie in a darkened room and for more critical viewing. The LS800 does well on the darkest of dark stuff though due to dynamic contrast. Can’t deny the colors on that Formovie though, they are _nice._


Yeah. I just wish that Formovie implemented dynamic dimming. I try to simulate if dynamic dimming is implemented for 1917 staircase scene by choosing the lamp brightness to silent, enable dynamic contrast and adjust madVR DTN to 50 nits. Using this settings, the scene black level is very good while able to make out the details.


----------



## anethema

@PixelPusher15 @Dave Harper did you guys play with Scene adaptive gamma or super resolution in your reviews/calibrations? I’m not seeing many people talk about what to set those to.


----------



## PixelPusher15

anethema said:


> @PixelPusher15 @Dave Harper did you guys play with Scene adaptive gamma or super resolution in your reviews/calibrations? I’m not seeing many people talk about what to set those to.


Yeah I did. I kept meaning to go back and add it to my review but forgot, apologies. Not much info though. I liked it when I was using Cinema because it added a bit more shadow detail on darker scenes. I think it was around 3-5 that i settled on. In Dynamic I didn't really need it due to brightness and the different internal gamma it uses. Turning it up did tend to wash things out on bright stuff though. Kind of a season to taste sorta thing.


----------



## anethema

PixelPusher15 said:


> Yeah I did. I kept meaning to go back and add it to my review but forgot, apologies. Not much info though. I liked it when I was using Cinema because it added a bit more shadow detail on darker scenes. I think it was around 3-5 that i settled on. In Dynamic I didn't really need it due to brightness and the different internal gamma it uses. Turning it up did tend to wash things out on bright stuff though. Kind of a season to taste sorta thing.


Awesome thanks for the info. Any idea what the super resolution does ? Googling says it helps sharpen low res upscaled images but does it do anything for 4k input ?


----------



## robl2

PixelPusher15 said:


> Regarding lack of picture adjustability. My comments were on Epson moving to Android TV as their base OS resulting in lack of adjustability. If Epson stuck with their existing OS and UI they’d most likely get all the adjustability that they previously had. My assumption here is that moving forward Epson will add back in those options to their Android TV implementation. It would be awesome if they added it via firmware updates to the LS800.


I gotta say that I feel like you're letting them off way to easily here (this is coming from a long term software engineer). Yes, changing the UI is gonna take some time, but it's not like switching the frontend UI impacted the backend image processing. They simply chose not to implement the controls for it probably for the same reason they did not add ethernet, RS-232 & 12V trigger; they're just not considering this a home _cinema_ projector.


----------



## Dave Harper

anethema said:


> @PixelPusher15 @Dave Harper did you guys play with Scene adaptive gamma or super resolution in your reviews/calibrations? I’m not seeing many people talk about what to set those to.





PixelPusher15 said:


> Yeah I did. I kept meaning to go back and add it to my review but forgot, apologies. Not much info though. I liked it when I was using Cinema because it added a bit more shadow detail on darker scenes. I think it was around 3-5 that i settled on. In Dynamic I didn't really need it due to brightness and the different internal gamma it uses. Turning it up did tend to wash things out on bright stuff though. Kind of a season to taste sorta thing.


I tried SAG and recall never liking what it did, so it was defeated for my calibrations and review.


----------



## mcollin6

Winters93 said:


> I can't get my image perfectly aligned to the canvas. At the top in the middle there is a bow downwards, but I can't get rid of it!?


Check to see if the wall you’ve mounted your screen on isn’t pushing the screen forward on the top. The very short throw ratio of this projector makes it EXTREMELY sensitive to imperfections in the projection surface. I had a similar problem with mine and found that the center reinforcement of my screen pushed my projection surface in by just 1-2mm resulting in a dip in the image.

You can always just make the image bigger and let the frame act to absorb the overscan.


----------



## mcollin6

PixelPusher15 said:


> Ha! Yeah, it was stuck. I really had to crank on it but I did get it to adjust. Didn’t try to hard before because I have broken things like that before, haha. (Edit: looks like my editor saw your comment already and adjusted the review. Thanks for catching that!)
> 
> I didn’t test color tracking with different laser output. I did all my testing at 100% and in Cinema it tracked well and nothing looked amiss. Gamut coverage also was in spec at 100%. Black levels will adjust proportionally with peak white so yeah, you can reduce black level but you also reduce white. I found that I wanted the light output to make bright scenes pop since this is what the projector is really good at. Reducing laser level didn’t help too much with the dark scenes for me personally. I’d use this projector at either 70% output for the quieter fan or 100%.
> 
> Hope you liked the review other than that 😉


Loved the review! Well thought out conclusions.

FYI - there are 70 levels of Laser power by using the rocker on the remote. So for each 7 clicks you go up 10%. I’m not sure if it is linear or not, but at least it’ll let you get a repeatable light level all other things being equal. 70% laser level would be 49 clicks on the remote. My other study showed me that it takes about 5-10 minutes for the light output to level off after making a change. (It rises about 5-10% above its initial value).


----------



## anethema

Does anyone know if It is possible to fully disable the audio on this thing?
Right now my chain is:

Apple TV>Onkyo AVR>LS800
Turning on the AppleTV turns the amp on and the projector through HDMI-CEC. Volume on the Apple TV Changes the AVR as desired.
But unfortunately on the projector even if you mute it etc if you adjust volume it turns on the projectors internal speakers and you start getting sound out of it.
I’ve got an actually 5.1.2 system going on so I of course don’t want this.
Unfortunately with the HDMI-CEC options you can’t disable volume control.
Is there no way to just disable the sound all together ?


----------



## PixelPusher15

robl2 said:


> I gotta say that I feel like you're letting them off way to easily here (this is coming from a long term software engineer). Yes, changing the UI is gonna take some time, but it's not like switching the frontend UI impacted the backend image processing. They simply chose not to implement the controls for it probably for the same reason they did not add ethernet, RS-232 & 12V trigger; they're just not considering this a home _cinema_ projector.


You're right, they aren't considering this a home _cinema _projector.

Look at their marketing page for it: EpiqVision Ultra LS800 Laser Projection TV | Epson US 

All of their blurbs and images are for sports except one for gaming and one for movies. I think they did a real good job focusing on their market for this projector. I judged it based on who I think will and should buy it. Sports are amazing on this thing. Movies are good and so are games. But I wouldn't consider it a theater or cinema projector, it's a living room TV replacement. I did point out all the faults with it though.


----------



## tjsadler

anethema said:


> Does anyone know if It is possible to fully disable the audio on this thing?
> Right now my chain is:
> 
> Apple TV>Onkyo AVR>LS800
> Turning on the AppleTV turns the amp on and the projector through HDMI-CEC. Volume on the Apple TV Changes the AVR as desired.
> But unfortunately on the projector even if you mute it etc if you adjust volume it turns on the projectors internal speakers and you start getting sound out of it.
> I’ve got an actually 5.1.2 system going on so I of course don’t want this.
> Unfortunately with the HDMI-CEC options you can’t disable volume control.
> Is there no way to just disable the sound all together ?


I have a similar setup with a Denon receiver and it automatically used the Denon and not the projector. There may be a setting in your receiver to not pass through audio. I will say I was confused at first because adjusting the volume brought up the volume slider from the projector along with the one from Denon. I thought it must be playing from both but I figured out that it is just mirroring the volume display from the receiver but not actually outputting sound. I couldn't figure out how to de-activate the Epson volume display so I just turned off the Denon volume display instead. It still plays via the Denon but the volume slider displayed is from the Epson.


----------



## anethema

tjsadler said:


> I have a similar setup with a Denon receiver and it automatically used the Denon and not the projector. There may be a setting in your receiver to not pass through audio. I will say I was confused at first because adjusting the volume brought up the volume slider from the projector along with the one from Denon. I thought it must be playing from both but I figured out that it is just mirroring the volume display from the receiver but not actually outputting sound. I couldn't figure out how to de-activate the Epson volume display so I just turned off the Denon volume display instead. It still plays via the Denon but the volume slider displayed is from the Epson.


Mine unfortunately plays from both. I’ll check to see if there’s a way in the AVR to stop it from passing audio.


----------



## gr7383448

My audio starts with projector speakers then slowly switches over to arc external speaker system (nakamichi), seems like i have to play with it before it settles down. Anyone know how to just make it so Epson speakers are disabled


----------



## Sevyor

Good morning everyone,

I have a specific question regarding the lifetime of the LS800 which will arrive today !!!

In the official Epson website, it is written :
20.000 hours Durability High, 20.000 hours Durability Medium, 20.000 hours Durability Eco

If I use

Dynamic Mode
or Dynamic Mode with High Speed,

will the lifetime still be of 20 000 hours, or less ?

Thanks for your help !


----------



## mcollin6

Sevyor said:


> Good morning everyone,
> 
> I have a specific question regarding the lifetime of the LS800 which will arrive today !!!
> 
> In the official Epson website, it is written :
> 20.000 hours Durability High, 20.000 hours Durability Medium, 20.000 hours Durability Eco
> 
> If I use
> 
> Dynamic Mode
> or Dynamic Mode with High Speed,
> 
> will the lifetime still be of 20 000 hours, or less ?
> 
> Thanks for your help !


I was curious about this as well. I think that it‘s 20,000 hours of laser time, no matter the output. I haven’t been able to find an actual laser timer on mine anywhere in the settings, so I can’t check it.


----------



## Sevyor

mcollin6 said:


> I was curious about this as well. I think that it‘s 20,000 hours of laser time, no matter the output. I haven’t been able to find an actual laser timer on mine anywhere in the settings, so I can’t check it.


The only thing I just found on the offical documentation is this :


https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd6/cpd62535.pdf



"Laser life will vary depending upon mode selected, environmental conditions, and usage. Brightness decreases over time."

Not very clear!


----------



## anethema

gr7383448 said:


> My audio starts with projector speakers then slowly switches over to arc external speaker system (nakamichi), seems like i have to play with it before it settles down. Anyone know how to just make it so Epson speakers are disabled


Ya I just asked this I don’t think there is a way.
I’m annoyed that it isn’t possible to use HDMI-CEC with an external source through your amp because every volume change command also affects the projector and turns the sound back on.
I’m honestly tempted to go into the projector and unplug the speaker connectors.


----------



## Sevyor

Hi everyone,

If I understood correctly the official documentation, it is impossible to use ARC on HDMI GAME 3, when for example, a PS4 or PS5 is connected.
So you have to use either the included Yamaha 2.1 speaker or an optical cable from Sony PS5 to your soundbar.
Which really is a shame because PS5 has a lot of modern audio codecs for gaming.

What do you think of this configuration? Do you think it could be better? Any help is appreciated 

a)

DuneHD RealVision 4K on HDMI Soundbar Samsung HW-Q990B directly (HDMI1) --> for Dolby Atmos Sound
Firestick 4K MAX on HDMI Soundbar Samsung HW-Q990B directly (HDMI2) --> for Dolby Atmos Sound (Netflix, PrimeVideo...)
Soundbar HDMI ARC/E-ARC HDMI port on LS800 HDMI2 ARC port

b)
- PS4 or PS5 on LS800 HDMI3 GAME PORT + Optical cable from PS5 to Optical Soundbar HW-Q990B (too bad !)
or
- PS4 or PS5 on LS800 HDMI1 but you loose input lag at the benefit of ARC sound (= maybe OK for casual gaming)

Thanks a lot !


----------



## mirzank

rjyap said:


> Yeah. I just wish that Formovie implemented dynamic dimming. I try to simulate if dynamic dimming is implemented for 1917 staircase scene by choosing the lamp brightness to silent, enable dynamic contrast and adjust madVR DTN to 50 nits. Using this settings, the scene black level is very good while able to make out the details.


Doesn’t the formovie theatre have dynamic dimming ? I thought the whole idea of having Dolby vision was that it does dynamic dimming ?


----------



## gr7383448

Ya


Sevyor said:


> The only thing I just found on the offical documentation is this :
> 
> 
> https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd6/cpd62535.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> "Laser life will vary depending upon mode selected, environmental conditions, and usage. Brightness decreases over time."
> 
> Not very clear!


i checked with Epson and they don’t let you see the hours on this projector,


----------



## tjsadler

mirzank said:


> Doesn’t the formovie theatre have dynamic dimming ? I thought the whole idea of having Dolby vision was that it does dynamic dimming ?


I believe Dolby Vision simply does a scene by scene dynamic gamma, essentially. Laser dynamic dimming is different. It's basically allowing the laser to run at different power levels to increase the contrast between dark and light scenes vs just using the panels (LCD for Epson and DLP for pretty much everyone else) to create contrast. This wasn't an option in older lamp based projectors since changing the power level to the bulb would not work and would likely damage it. With LED or Laser light sources you can dim and brighten them much more quickly by adjusting the power to them but not all manufacturers include this capability. They're often using the same process as with a bulb and delivering a constant power output.


----------



## PixelPusher15

tjsadler said:


> This wasn't an option in older lamp based projectors since changing the power level to the bulb would not work and would likely damage it.


Actually, TI Dynamic Black is just that. Modulating the bulb power based on scene. It’s slower than a dynamic iris though but a lot of projectors have it. BenQ called out SmartEco.


----------



## slowgraffiti

Sevyor said:


> b)
> - PS4 or PS5 on LS800 HDMI3 GAME PORT + Optical cable from PS5 to Optical Soundbar HW-Q990B (too bad !)
> Thanks a lot !


There isnt optical out on PS5 i dont think? so i guess thats not an option.


----------



## mcollin6

slowgraffiti said:


> There isnt optical out on PS5 i dont think? so i guess thats not an option.


Just use the optical out from the projector. You’ll only get 5.1, but it works fine.


----------



## slowgraffiti

Im currently going ps5/cable/blu ray> Denon amp> HDMI 3 on projector. Its the only way i could work out to get sound from ps5 and still get the low input lag.

I had thought (from reading earlier in this forum) that if i want to change image, then going to android home, change it (for example from dynamic to cinema), then going back to HDMI 3, and the change would carry over. @PixelPusher15 I think your review suggests this isn't the case and you are stuck with default settings?

I've just been in god of war mode since receiving projector so not tried getting films looking good yet. 
It will be annoying if i have to keep switching between hdmi 1 and 3 every time i move from ps5 though.


----------



## slowgraffiti

mcollin6 said:


> Just use the optical out from the projector. You’ll only get 5.1, but it works fine.


very good point, should have thought of that. 

@Sevyor i would def go for PS5 in HDMI 3 whatever final setup you chose if possible. I'm an old man playing one player games, and not very well. I am certainly not into COD/fortnite style shooters. Even i notice the difference with lag, and die even more. (and i wasn't sure that was even possible)


----------



## PixelPusher15

slowgraffiti said:


> Im currently going ps5/cable/blu ray> Denon amp> HDMI 3 on projector. Its the only way i could work out to get sound from ps5 and still get the low input lag.
> 
> I had thought (from reading earlier in this forum) that if i want to change image, then going to android home, change it (for example from dynamic to cinema), then going back to HDMI 3, and the change would carry over. @PixelPusher15 I think your review suggests this isn't the case and you are stuck with default settings?
> 
> I've just been in god of war mode since receiving projector so not tried getting films looking good yet.
> It will be annoying if i have to keep switching between hdmi 1 and 3 every time i move from ps5 though.


You know what, I didn't test that and I should have. I still have the projector so I can do just that. Should be a quick an easy test. If I confirm it to be true I'll have the review updated.

Edit: just tested. Yup, you're right. It just uses what picture mode you have for Android TV. That makes much more sense. Thanks for catching that, I'll have it updated. I do wonder what things are disabled to get the low lag though. I don't have time to test each option but I assume some of the processing doesn't carry over.


----------



## slowgraffiti

PixelPusher15 said:


> You know what, I didn't test that and I should have. I still have the projector so I can do just that. Should be a quick an easy test. If I confirm it to be true I'll have the review updated.
> 
> Edit: just tested. Yup, you're right. It just uses what picture mode you have for Android TV. That makes much more sense. Thanks for catching that, I'll have it updated. I do wonder what things are disabled to get the low lag though. I don't have time to test each option but I assume some of the processing doesn't carry over.


No worries, and phew. The credit goes to whoever it was a while back in the forum who told me, but sorry whoever you are, i cant find post right now. 
I'm not sure how those of us with av amps and multiple gaming sources could have set things up otherwise


----------



## slowgraffiti

oh, also @anethema and @tjsadler, by using HDMI3 i dont have the issue with turning the volume up turning the sound back on through projector, it purely turns up / down my amp. No use if you need ARC though, but my sources all through amp


----------



## anethema

slowgraffiti said:


> oh, also @anethema and @tjsadler, by using HDMI3 i dont have the issue with turning the volume up turning the sound back on through projector, it purely turns up / down my amp. No use if you need ARC though, but my sources all through amp


I don’t need ARC, I just didn’t use 3 because I don’t game and it looked like I couldn’t adjust settings but @PixelPusher15 is checking that


----------



## Gsteele21

tjsadler said:


> For those of you looking at a 120" range screen look at Akia. They're the same company as Elite as best as I can tell. Their 123" is about $1,150 for the CLR4. I'm fairly sure the 123" from each company is the exact same product but with a ~$3-400 price difference. I ordered from XY Screens as I wanted larger. My previous screen was 135" and I ordered a 140" CLR screen from them last week. I'll update with some pics once it arrives.


Hey bud, been scratching my head on what screen to buy, and looking to order within the next few days. Came across your comments on the Formovie Theater thread about you having a XY screen and just ordered a larger 140”
Can you send me any info on where to locate this screen and who to talk to? I’m looking to do 130-140” clr ust screen.

My other option will be the Akia 123” clr4


----------



## tjsadler

Gsteele21 said:


> Hey bud, been scratching my head on what screen to buy, and looking to order within the next few days. Came across your comments on the Formovie Theater thread about you having a XY screen and just ordered a larger 140”
> Can you send me any info on where to locate this screen and who to talk to? I’m looking to do 130-140” clr ust screen.
> 
> My other option will be the Akia 123” clr4


I just went to their website and used the contact form. They then emailed me back and forth and once I decided what I wanted I paid via Paypal. They shipped it last Friday and I received it yesterday. I'll likely get time to install and test it out this weekend. They're doing the same thing Spectra screens are doing and seaming two pieces of material together to make a larger screen so the price difference is big between 120" and anything larger. Basically it's double.


----------



## gr7383448

Talk to Wendy, i bought mine from her in 2020. I used alibaba.com buying platform to be safe. Her Whatsapp number is +86 188 2513 4099. After the sale she helped me with my mistake putting together the screen. She quoted me few days ago since people here were interested in xy screens 120" price is $1170 USD ,include shipping cost ,ship by Fedex,door to door ,about 7-9 days arrival at your home. 150" is much more expensive ,include shipping cost ,price is $2650 USD, ship by DHL,door to door,about 6 days arrival at your home.


----------



## anethema

tjsadler said:


> I just went to their website and used the contact form. They then emailed me back and forth and once I decided what I wanted I paid via Paypal. They shipped it last Friday and I received it yesterday. I'll likely get time to install and test it out this weekend. They're doing the same thing Spectra screens are doing and seaming two pieces of material together to make a larger screen so the price difference is big between 120" and anything larger. Basically it's double.


Any idea how the XY screens compare to something like a Spectra etc ?

what was your total cost ?


----------



## rjyap

mirzank said:


> Doesn’t the formovie theatre have dynamic dimming ? I thought the whole idea of having Dolby vision was that it does dynamic dimming ?


Nope. The black floor never reduce during dark scene which is observable in wide format movie on top/bottom black bar. It's quite obvious on my older Optoma HD83 when the iris clamp down. Dolby Vision is dynamic tone mapping based on your screen nits that you defined.


----------



## manz2

My LS800 is turning back ON by itself. I turned off HDMI CEC and set POWER BUTTON SETTING to shutdown and still turning back ON. I’m making sure I leave power button pressed down till I see the SHUTDOWN or RESTART option and choosing shutdown. Any suggestions or do I need to call epson. I barely have a couple days with it.

Got home from work just to find it ON all this time, maybe even from last night. 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

I just unplugged it right now just to make sure it stays off.


----------



## tjsadler

manz2 said:


> My LS800 is turning back ON by itself. I turned off HDMI CEC and set POWER BUTTON SETTING to shutdown and still turning back ON. I’m making sure I leave power button pressed down till I see the SHUTDOWN or RESTART option and choosing shutdown. Any suggestions or do I need to call epson. I barely have a couple days with it.


I'm having the same issue. It's really weird. I've just started using the Epson remote for power on and power off functions. If I use my AppleTV remote to turn everything off it pops back on again about 10 seconds later. I'm hoping someone knows why it's doing that. I'd much rather just use my ATV remote power button.


----------



## mirzank

tjsadler said:


> I believe Dolby Vision simply does a scene by scene dynamic gamma, essentially. Laser dynamic dimming is different. It's basically allowing the laser to run at different power levels to increase the contrast between dark and light scenes vs just using the panels (LCD for Epson and DLP for pretty much everyone else) to create contrast. This wasn't an option in older lamp based projectors since changing the power level to the bulb would not work and would likely damage it. With LED or Laser light sources you can dim and brighten them much more quickly by adjusting the power to them but not all manufacturers include this capability. They're often using the same process as with a bulb and delivering a constant power output.


Ah thanks for the great explanation ! So what you’re saying is that the hardware technically exists it’s up to the manufacturer to implement this dimming via software? Wouldn’t this kind of be a big easy win to implement though or something else stopping these laser projectors from implementing this ?


----------



## Winters93

tjsadler said:


> I'm having the same issue. It's really weird. I've just started using the Epson remote for power on and power off functions. If I use my AppleTV remote to turn everything off it pops back on again about 10 seconds later. I'm hoping someone knows why it's doing that. I'd much rather just use my ATV remote power button.


Got exactly the same problem 5 times came home from work 4 times it was back on. Now I always turn off the power strip.


----------



## wunderhund

manz2 said:


> My LS800 is turning back ON by itself. I turned off HDMI CEC and set POWER BUTTON SETTING to shutdown and still turning back ON.


FWIW this is also an issue in common with my year-old Epson LS300. I’m not sure if it’s an HDMI issue, something on the network that wakes the unit, or if it’s happening independently. Find it on by itself a couple of times a week. Hopefully a firmware update will solve.


----------



## tjsadler

mirzank said:


> Ah thanks for the great explanation ! So what you’re saying is that the hardware technically exists it’s up to the manufacturer to implement this dimming via software? Wouldn’t this kind of be a big easy win to implement though or something else stopping these laser projectors from implementing this ?


I couldn't say for sure but I would imagine that there's hardware needed also. I would think that the power supply system would need to be set up to do this. I'm not an expert but I would imagine most of them are like a regular light switch. Off or On with full power. This would likely have the equivalent of an electronically controlled dimmer switch. I'm not sure if anyone's tried to take one apart and check but that would be a questions for the Formovie thread.


----------



## manz2

Well it looks like I figured out what’s causing my LS800 to turn back ON a few seconds after shutting it down. I turned OFF the WiFi on its Android settings and it’s staying OFF as of right now. So any suggestions what could be triggering that on the network or in the projector?

I’ll turn it back on in a while to see if it makes a difference. 🤞

i called epson and they said they were escalating the issue and would get back to me.


----------



## joflow

Gsteele21 said:


> Hey bud, been scratching my head on what screen to buy, and looking to order within the next few days. Came across your comments on the Formovie Theater thread about you having a XY screen and just ordered a larger 140”
> Can you send me any info on where to locate this screen and who to talk to? I’m looking to do 130-140” clr ust screen.
> 
> My other option will be the Akia 123” clr4


For what its worth, I ordered the Akia 123" clr4. Just waiting on the projector to arrive so I don't know how it pairs with the LS800 yet but I will by the middle of next week.


----------



## mcollin6

joflow said:


> For what its worth, I ordered the Akia 123" clr4. Just waiting on the projector to arrive so I don't know how it pairs with the LS800 yet but I will by the middle of next week.


I am in the process of reviewing about a dozen different ALT UST materials for usability in ambient light with the LS800. I’ll post what I find here. 

As for AKIA in general, they use the same material as found in the Elite Screens CLR3 screens (they are even listed on the ES website), but the build quality of the frame cuts a few corners to drop the price. I have read reviews where the AKIA screen will lose its tension after some time on the wall and develop wrinkles in the corners. You may want to be extra careful during assembly to get the corners tight so you don’t have to redo them at so,e point down the line. 

Looking forward to seeing Your results first hand!


----------



## ad10ad

New to the thread. i just had the LS800 installed with the Epson Silverflex ALR. I’m still tweaking the settings and haven’t settled in for critical viewing yet but so far I’ve been very impressed.

PQ is very solid. Are the black levels as good as my LG OLED—of course not. But they are very inky, and the detail is more than fine. Plus the 100” screen makes me forget all about the stellar 75-XBR-940D this replaces in my family room. 

Here are a few shots using the LG demo clips.


----------



## Qphan79

Winters93 said:


> I sometimes have picture dropouts on the HDMI 3 input. I don't know if it's the projector or the HDMI cable, but the cable is brand new. Otherwise very satisfied so far.
> View attachment 3355597
> 
> View attachment 3355596


How do you find the sound coming out of the center speaker with it so low relative to the screen and idea sitting position?


----------



## anethema

ad10ad said:


> New to the thread. i just had the LS800 installed with the Epson Silverflex ALR. I’m still tweaking the settings and haven’t settled in for critical viewing yet but so far I’ve been very impressed.
> 
> PQ is very solid. Are the black levels as good as my LG OLED—of course not. But they are very inky, and the detail is more than fine. Plus the 100” screen makes me forget all about the stellar 75-XBR-940D this replaces in my family room.
> 
> Here are a few shots using the LG demo clips.
> 
> View attachment 3361709
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3361708


What projector picture settings did you use for those shots ?


----------



## ad10ad

anethema said:


> What projector picture settings did you use for those shots ?


I can send a full list later in the week when I’m back, but here is what I used based on others' posts and some personal preference:

Dynamic color mode
Dynamic contrast on high 
color temp at 6 
Brightness 45
contrast 50 
saturation 45 (I think) 
hdr slider on 2


----------



## anethema

Ya wonder what the scene adaptive contrast really does. What is yours set to?



ad10ad said:


> I can send a full list later in the week when I’m back, but here is what I used based on others' posts and some personal preference:
> 
> Dynamic color mode
> Dynamic contrast on high
> color temp at 6
> Brightness 45
> contrast 50
> saturation 45 (I think)
> hdr slider on 2


----------



## ad10ad

anethema said:


> Ya wonder what the scene adaptive contrast really does. What is yours set to?


I think I have it set to off but will confirm later in the week when I’m back to my house. Will post full settings.


----------



## Kev1000000

Anyone elses unit consistently keep dropping its wifi connection?


----------



## anethema

ad10ad said:


> I think I have it set to off but will confirm later in the week when I’m back to my house. Will post full settings.


Thanks!


----------



## tjsadler

I got my XY Screens 140" CLR Pet Crystal screen installed this weekend. I created a separate post so that it didn't clog up the LS800 thread but you can see the pics here:
XY Screen 140" Review


----------



## Menzo1337

Anyone else seeing light bleed outside of the screen even after the display has been adjusted correctly? What I mean is that the actual content fits on the screen just fine, but there's a faint white light to the left, right, and above the screen itself.


----------



## tjsadler

Menzo1337 said:


> Anyone else seeing light bleed outside of the screen even after the display has been adjusted correctly? What I mean is that the actual content fits on the screen just fine, but there's a faint white light to the left, right, and above the screen itself.


I had that and had to adjust the picture size down a bit in the installation menu. The picture still goes to the edge of the screen but there's no more light bleed around the frame.


----------



## joflow

Just got my projector. Is it just me or is it basically impossible to align this thing to a UST screen without using the "wall" alignment feature. The top of the image is distorted and the only way I've been able to correct it is to use the finer adjustments on the top row which is only possible if you select wall...

Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## muhur

PixelPusher15 said:


> I did, and it isn’t that good. Video content looks good though. Seen this before with my 5050.


Is there anything that can be done to make font look sharper?


----------



## anethema

joflow said:


> Just got my projector. Is it just me or is it basically impossible to align this thing to a UST screen without using the "wall" alignment feature. The top of the image is distorted and the only way I've been able to correct it is to use the finer adjustments on the top row which is only possible if you select wall...
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?


You should not be using any of those adjustments. You should only be adjusting the feet. 

If the top image is wavey etc then it means that your screen is bent. 

If it’s straight but out of square then ya just use the feet. 

Any adjustments in the installation menu will degrade your picture quality.


----------



## tjsadler

joflow said:


> Just got my projector. Is it just me or is it basically impossible to align this thing to a UST screen without using the "wall" alignment feature. The top of the image is distorted and the only way I've been able to correct it is to use the finer adjustments on the top row which is only possible if you select wall...
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?


Sounds like your screen isn’t flat. ANY tiny variance creates a big issue with the picture so you may need to figure out how to shim out out tighten down various points to get it flat.


----------



## joflow

tjsadler said:


> Sounds like your screen isn’t flat. ANY tiny variance creates a big issue with the picture so you may need to figure out how to shim out out tighten down various points to get it flat.





anethema said:


> You should not be using any of those adjustments. You should only be adjusting the feet.
> 
> If the top image is wavey etc then it means that your screen is bent.
> 
> If it’s straight but out of square then ya just use the feet.
> 
> Any adjustments in the installation menu will degrade your picture quality.


I was afraid of that. I think the frame is sort of bent inward in the middle. Maybe about an inch or two. The give away was that the support bar was a VERY tight fit. 

Maybe I can re-adjust the screws without having to unhook the springs? Because getting the springs hooked in is a massive chore.


----------



## tjsadler

joflow said:


> I was afraid of that. I think the frame is sort of bent inward in the middle. Maybe about an inch or two. The give away was that the support bar was a VERY tight fit.
> 
> Maybe I can re-adjust the screws without having to unhook the springs? Because getting the springs hooked in is a massive chore.


Depending on the brackets you can probably just shim the center out slightly. As long as the brackets hold it firmly out towards the corners you can slide some material in the center between the wall and the back of the screen. Just moving it 1/4” will cause a big change to the image.


----------



## 1nquisitive

Vid shows some good usage without a CLR screen:


----------



## Zardakan

Hi all,

Lurker here since a few weeks and kind of an AV noob but I am very interested to get a UST projector for my living room to replace my aging TV (a standard LED from 2016, 4K but fake HDR so I'm not starting from far).

From reading the forums and various reviews, I've narrowed it to this Epson LS800 or the Formovie which basically seem among the best.

The Epson has the advantage to be really short throw (barely need to move the furniture away from the wall) and to be available in normal stores (no need to import it from some unknown foreign sites or China) which is something I'm pretty interested in and why it's getting ahead in my choice. I'm not sure if I'm sensible to the rainbow effect (never owned a projector before) but not having it is an advantage I guess.

My main worry is the image quality, it seems good but compared to the Formovie. I've seen that colors and contrast/blacks are not on the level of the Formovie and it has no Dolby Vision (though apparently you can get it in low-latency, does that work as well?). But are those real drawbacks or stuff you only see when you compare it side to side? Especially when you come from a mid-end 6 year-old LED TV, I'm sure any UST is a huge upgrade (the size too of course, main reason I'm going UST and not an OLED TV for example) and since I'm not some cultist of the perfect PQ (of course I prefer to have a better one and I have eyes), I wonder if I'll really miss out with this.

Also what about the 2x pixel shifting instead of 4x? I've seen that mentionned here but not many conclusions on its impact. Is it noticeable on 4K video content sharpness? Seen that it may pose a problem for text sharpness for games though? That may a problem as I intend to also use it to play (not games where text is super important I guess but still there is some). Is it a real problem or one of those if you want to be perfectionist (as an AV noob, not really my case)?


----------



## Gwreck

Zardakan said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Lurker here since a few weeks and kind of an AV noob but I am very interested to get a UST projector for my living room to replace my aging TV (a standard LED from 2016, 4K but fake HDR so I'm not starting from far).
> 
> From reading the forums and various reviews, I've narrowed it to this Epson LS800 or the Formovie which basically seem among the best.
> 
> The Epson has the advantage to be really short throw (barely need to move the furniture away from the wall) and to be available in normal stores (no need to import it from some unknown foreign sites or China) which is something I'm pretty interested in and why it's getting ahead in my choice. I'm not sure if I'm sensible to the rainbow effect (never owned a projector before) but not having it is an advantage I guess.
> 
> My main worry is the image quality, it seems good but compared to the Formovie. I've seen that colors and contrast/blacks are not on the level of the Formovie and it has no Dolby Vision (though apparently you can get it in low-latency, does that work as well?). But are those real drawbacks or stuff you only see when you compare it side to side? Especially when you come from a mid-end 6 year-old LED TV, I'm sure any UST is a huge upgrade (the size too of course, main reason I'm going UST and not an OLED TV for example) and since I'm not some cultist of the perfect PQ (of course I prefer to have a better one and I have eyes), I wonder if I'll really miss out with this.
> 
> Also what about the 2x pixel shifting instead of 4x? I've seen that mentionned here but not many conclusions on its impact. Is it noticeable on 4K video content sharpness? Seen that it may pose a problem for text sharpness for games though? That may a problem as I intend to also use it to play (not games where text is super important I guess but still there is some). Is it a real problem or one of those if you want to be perfectionist (as an AV noob, not really my case)?


If you are considering these two products and are around a 100 inch screen I’d seriously consider also the TCL 98xl as it is now $5k on Black Friday sales.


----------



## tjsadler

Zardakan said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Lurker here since a few weeks and kind of an AV noob but I am very interested to get a UST projector for my living room to replace my aging TV (a standard LED from 2016, 4K but fake HDR so I'm not starting from far).
> 
> From reading the forums and various reviews, I've narrowed it to this Epson LS800 or the Formovie which basically seem among the best.
> 
> The Epson has the advantage to be really short throw (barely need to move the furniture away from the wall) and to be available in normal stores (no need to import it from some unknown foreign sites or China) which is something I'm pretty interested in and why it's getting ahead in my choice. I'm not sure if I'm sensible to the rainbow effect (never owned a projector before) but not having it is an advantage I guess.
> 
> My main worry is the image quality, it seems good but compared to the Formovie. I've seen that colors and contrast/blacks are not on the level of the Formovie and it has no Dolby Vision (though apparently you can get it in low-latency, does that work as well?). But are those real drawbacks or stuff you only see when you compare it side to side? Especially when you come from a mid-end 6 year-old LED TV, I'm sure any UST is a huge upgrade (the size too of course, main reason I'm going UST and not an OLED TV for example) and since I'm not some cultist of the perfect PQ (of course I prefer to have a better one and I have eyes), I wonder if I'll really miss out with this.
> 
> Also what about the 2x pixel shifting instead of 4x? I've seen that mentionned here but not many conclusions on its impact. Is it noticeable on 4K video content sharpness? Seen that it may pose a problem for text sharpness for games though? That may a problem as I intend to also use it to play (not games where text is super important I guess but still there is some). Is it a real problem or one of those if you want to be perfectionist (as an AV noob, not really my case)?


Both of these can be ordered from Projectorscreen.com They have a great reputation and customer service. You can call them and discuss your questions with someone who has seen both in person. The placement flexibility and brightness are probably the biggest benefits of the Epson. Depending on your screen size the placement may or may not be an issue and the need for brightness is dependent on your room environment.


----------



## Zardakan

I'm not in the US. Projectorscreen isn't present here. I can only buy the Formovie online and not on common sites. The Epson is available in Best Buy/Target type of stores (they don't have it exposed though, UST projectors are still pretty niche). I prefer that personally. But if picture quality is really superior, I can do the Formovie. Also to be honest, I like the throw ratio, it's really kind of the only true ultra short throw that doesn't need the TV unit weirdly pulled from the wall. As I am in an apartment without a huge living room that matters.


----------



## tjsadler

Zardakan said:


> I'm not in the US. Projectorscreen isn't present here. I can only buy the Formovie online and not on common sites. The Epson is available in Best Buy/Target type of stores (they don't have it exposed though, UST projectors are still pretty niche). I prefer that personally. But if picture quality is really superior, I can do the Formovie. Also to be honest, I like the throw ratio, it's really kind of the only true ultra short throw that doesn't need the TV unit weirdly pulled from the wall. As I am in an apartment without a huge living room that matters.


Oh ok. Sorry for the assumption! I guess that and the placement are really pushing you towards the Epson.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

I currently have the Epson L800. Previously owned the Formovie Global T1. I returned it (Formovie) due to some operational issues. 
I personally don't miss the Formovie's superior color gamut. The Epson is good enough in this area......for me.....however if "eye candy " is your most important criteria than go for the Formovie. 
I have ZERO ISSUES with the Epson's Color, or sharpness....2 x's pixel shifting works well enough for me.
Anyway, both are superb UST units.


----------



## 1nquisitive

There's no detail on what screen was used, but image looks really good in these (would guess lights off in either case):


----------



## gr7383448

Guys on sale today $2999 for the white Epson 800 and regular price of $3499 for the black. Would you buy white for $500 less or go with black if it matches your setup.


----------



## Sevyor

Winters93 said:


> Got exactly the same problem 5 times came home from work 4 times it was back on. Now I always turn off the power strip.


Same thing for me this night. It never happened the 4 previous days (with PS5 on HDMI 3 and Firestick on HDMI2 and internet box on HDMI1).

It only started to happen at night when i plugged the Soundbar to HDMI 2 ARC (with Dune 4k and Firestick on HDMI Soundbar).
I now also turn off the power strip waiting for a firmware update.

Hope it can help to determine what's causing it.


----------



## ad10ad

anethema said:


> Ya wonder what the scene adaptive contrast really does. What is yours set to?


Checked my settings. Adaptive contrast is off


----------



## anethema

ad10ad said:


> Checked my settings. Adaptive contrast is off


Sorry I mean scene adaptive gamma and auto contrast enhancement further down the menu.


----------



## drillsingersargent

Sorry for the basic question, but how much of a step down from the LS11000 would this be? Thinking of downgrading because it seems like a UST would be better for my space, but I've never seen a UST in action.


----------



## anethema

drillsingersargent said:


> Sorry for the basic question, but how much of a step down from the LS11000 would this be? Thinking of downgrading because it seems like a UST would be better for my space, but I've never seen a UST in action.


The LS11000 has a bit better gamut and bit better contrast ratio. It will also be a little sharper as it does 4 way pixel shift vs 3 way. 

The LS800 is a bit under twice as bright (4000 vs 2500 lumens) and both have a fantastic dynamic contrast mode so the contrast diff doesn’t matter as much. 

Another thing to keep in mind is since it is a UST you either need UST ALR screen for it, or to paint the roof and walls around your screen a dark matte color or the light will bounce off the screen and hit the walls and ceiling and light your screen back up, messing up your contrast.


----------



## drillsingersargent

Thanks! Yeah, I've read some folks say you can use a non-alr screen if you intent to only watch at in a light controlled room, but the ceiling bounce has me worried. Any experience with that?

I just absolutely love the LS11000 but NYC-apartment-rental life makes having it ultra short sighted.


----------



## anethema

drillsingersargent said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I've read some folks say you can use a non-alr screen if you intent to only watch at in a light controlled room, but the ceiling bounce has me worried. Any experience with that?
> 
> I just absolutely love the LS11000 but NYC-apartment-rental life makes having it ultra short sighted.


Ya it makes a big difference. You really have to paint around the screen with some matte paint or get a proper screen or you will be wondering why your new projector looks worse than your old one. 

Ideally get a proper screen but if light controlled area the matte paint will work


----------



## ad10ad

anethema said:


> Sorry I mean scene adaptive gamma and auto contrast enhancement further down the menu.


Here are the basic settings


----------



## anethema

Hm I'm not really sure of the function of "Auto Contrast Enhancement" then and if I should use it. I see you haven't but not really sure.

Also thanks a bunch for posting that!



ad10ad said:


> Here are the basic settings
> 
> View attachment 3363955
> 
> View attachment 3363954


----------



## Winters93

I'm still having trouble getting my picture into the screen. There are 2 options under installation, once on a wall or on a screen.

Up to now I have of course always selected Screen, since I use one. But there is only setting via app or 4 point setting which brings nothing with my crooked wall.

Now if you go under wall settings there are a lot more choices there including an 8 and 200 point setting. This allows me to get my screen perfectly adjusted, but what's the downside? Why aren't the settings included in the screen installation?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Winters93 said:


> I'm still having trouble getting my picture into the screen. There are 2 options under installation, once on a wall or on a screen.
> 
> Up to now I have of course always selected Screen, since I use one. But there is only setting via app or 4 point setting which brings nothing with my crooked wall.
> 
> Now if you go under wall settings there are a lot more choices there including an 8 and 200 point setting. This allows me to get my screen perfectly adjusted, but what's the downside? Why aren't the settings included in the screen installation?


I would guess some loss of resolution with using more keystone options.....I personally wouldn't worry about it.....I have yet to see an observable loss of resolution when I use keystone options to align a picture....on any projector I have used over the years.
However having a somewhat misaligned picture on my screen would take my OCD into overdrive...😟


----------



## nathan.brandt

The white version is currently on sale for $3000 at a few places.


----------



## manz2

*LS800 TURNING ON BY ITSELF* ** UPDATE ** (Android 11 Issue)

As some of you might remember I brought up the issue of the LS800 turning it self back ON after turning it OFF. Sometimes it would be within a matter of seconds, sometimes minutes, and even hours.

I last reported that it seemed as turning off the WiFi had seemed to fix the issue but that was not the case. I knew that I had to try troubleshooting as much as possible before contacting EPSON to rule out simple things which I know they might want me to check first.

I contacted EPSON SUPPORT, and I must give them a big shout out for their prompt attention and feedback via phone and email !!

I provided the following to them:

*I’ve done the following to troubleshoot:*

_*1. I first turned off HDMI CEC on the projector and that did nothing, it still turns ON by itself.

2. I turned OFF hdmi CEC on the onkyo receiver and that did nothing, it still turns ON by itself.*_

*3. I disconnected the one and only HDMI cord from the receiver, leaving nothing connected to the projector, and it still turns ON by itself.*

They responded back stating the engineers were able to reproduce the problem when the *"POWER BUTTON SETTING"* was set to *SHUTDOWN* instead of *SUSPEND* (which I had changed mine to shutdown). They have narrowed down the problem to ANDROID 11 update. They expect to have the problem fixed in an upcoming firmware issue.

They have asked me to try leaving the setting on SUSPEND and see if the problem persists. I have told them that it seems to be much better, but that I have encountered the system turning back ON after some hours.


----------



## Kev1000000

manz2 said:


> *LS800 TURNING ON BY ITSELF* ** UPDATE ** (Android 11 Issue)
> 
> As some of you might remember I brought up the issue of the LS800 turning it self back ON after turning it OFF. Sometimes it would be within a matter of seconds, sometimes minutes, and even hours.
> 
> I last reported that it seemed as turning off the WiFi had seemed to fix the issue but that was not the case. I knew that I had to try troubleshooting as much as possible before contacting EPSON to rule out simple things which I know they might want me to check first.
> 
> I contacted EPSON SUPPORT, and I must give them a big shout out for their prompt attention and feedback via phone and email !!
> 
> I provided the following to them:
> 
> *I’ve done the following to troubleshoot:*
> 
> _*1. I first turned off HDMI CEC on the projector and that did nothing, it still turns ON by itself.
> 
> 2. I turned OFF hdmi CEC on the onkyo receiver and that did nothing, it still turns ON by itself.*_
> 
> *3. I disconnected the one and only HDMI cord from the receiver, leaving nothing connected to the projector, and it still turns ON by itself.*
> 
> They responded back stating the engineers were able to reproduce the problem when the *"POWER BUTTON SETTING"* was set to *SHUTDOWN* instead of *SUSPEND* (which I had changed mine to shutdown). They have narrowed down the problem to ANDROID 11 update. They expect to have the problem fixed in an upcoming firmware issue.
> 
> They have asked me to try leaving the setting on SUSPEND and see if the problem persists. I have told them that it seems to be much better, but that I have encountered the system turning back ON after some hours.


Thank you for working with Epson on this. I actually use suspend and still get this all of the time. I actually believe it's related to WIFI, but glad to hear EPSON is aware of this.


----------



## manz2

Kev1000000 said:


> Thank you for working with Epson on this. I actually use suspend and still get this all of the time. I actually believe it's related to WIFI, but glad to hear EPSON is aware of this.


I’m actually thinking of providing that suspicion myself to them just in case. One of the times it was in suspend and it came back on in the morning as we were waking up and probably as we started being on phones and I do have the Epson setting app on my phone. Maybe coincidence but who knows!! 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Kev1000000

manz2 said:


> I’m actually thinking of providing that suspicion myself to them just in case. One of the times it was in suspend and it came back on in the morning as we were waking up and probably as we started being on phones and I do have the Epson setting app on my phone. Maybe coincidence but who knows!! 🤷🏻‍♂️


Every time I turn off wifi, the problem goes away. Everytime it on, like clockwork at 4:15am, it automatically turns on.


----------



## manz2

Kev1000000 said:


> Every time I turn off wifi, the problem goes away. Everytime it on, like clockwork at 4:15am, it automatically turns on.


Ok great to hear some additional information! I’ll let them know in my email. Thanks!


----------



## Pulse1

manz2 said:


> Ok great to hear some additional information! I’ll let them know in my email. Thanks!


This has also been a problem with the EH-LS300 UST which also runs Android 11 TV. The menu system is basically the same as the EH-LS800. When the EH-LS300 first came out it was on Android 9 TV and it has always had the problem where it just comes on randomly. So maybe let Epson know about this also as it's always been a problem on the EH-LS300 UST from it's release so could actually either be a firmware update is needed or worst case scenario a hardware problem?


----------



## aurimas1975

How to reset all colour mode to default?
I can't find it anywhere in settings.
Also i really don't like the color red, it's so unnatural.Maybe someone can suggest picture settings for sports, specifically for football.


----------



## nathan.brandt

Is there any reason to get the Epson screens with this projector vs a 3rd party?


----------



## mcollin6

drillsingersargent said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I've read some folks say you can use a non-alr screen if you intent to only watch at in a light controlled room, but the ceiling bounce has me worried. Any experience with that?
> 
> I just absolutely love the LS11000 but NYC-apartment-rental life makes having it ultra short sighted.


Example of ceiling bounce with LS800


----------



## Pulse1

aurimas1975 said:


> How to reset all colour mode to default?
> I can't find it anywhere in settings.
> Also i really don't like the color red, it's so unnatural.Maybe someone can suggest picture settings for sports, specifically for football.


The only way you can currently reset all color mode or picture settings to default is exactly the same way as the EH-LS300 UST and that's by doing a factory reset within the Android settings. Owner's of the EH-LS300 have been waiting on a separate setting to reset all picture settings back to default since the release of the EH-LS300 but unfortunately we're still waiting.


----------



## aurimas1975

Pulse1 said:


> The only way you can currently reset all color mode or picture settings to default is exactly the same way as the EH-LS300 UST and that's by doing a factory reset within the Android settings. Owner's of the EH-LS300 have been waiting on a separate setting to reset all picture settings back to default since the release of the EH-LS300 but unfortunately we're still waiting.


Thanks, I was able to reset the picture settings to default as you said.


----------



## muhur

JereyWolf said:


> Can you confirm the blurry text from PC is not a chroma subsampling problem?
> Can you force 4:4:4 from your GPU?


I also have issues with very blurry text from PCand Mac. What does chroma subsampling mean? How can we fix this?


----------



## JereyWolf

muhur said:


> I also have issues with very blurry text from PCand Mac. What does chroma subsampling mean? How can we fix this?


Adjust settings from your graphics card on PC. 



















Chroma Subsampling: 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0


What is Chroma Subsampling and where is this visible? Chroma subsampling is a type of compression that reduces the color information in a signal in favor of luminance data.




www.rtings.com





see that page for more detail.


----------



## Ozzone

According to the Japanese user guides, it's possible to connect to the internet with an ethernet cable by using a rj45 adapter to USB.
Is there anyone to try this?


----------



## JMarq

Ozzone said:


> According to the Japanese user guides, it's possible to connect to the internet with an ethernet cable by using a rj45 adapter to USB.
> Is there anyone to try this?


I can confirm this works, just tried it with a USB adapter.


----------



## muhur

JMarq said:


> I can confirm this works, just tried it with a USB adapter.


Wow, marvellous.
Can you cast content from a mobile decive to the projector if the device is logged on the WLAN and the projector is connected to the LAN?


----------



## muhur

JMarq said:


> I can confirm this works, just tried it with a USB adapter.


What kind of USB adapter do you use? Do you think an USB 3.1 Adapter will be compatible?


----------



## JMarq

muhur said:


> What kind of USB adapter do you use? Do you think an USB 3.1 Adapter will be compatible?


It's a few years old so don't recall the specs. I used it for a Nintendo switch or something and had it laying around and tried it today when I saw the post about it.



muhur said:


> Wow, marvellous.
> Can you cast content from a mobile decive to the projector if the device is logged on the WLAN and the projector is connected to the LAN?


I don't know, have apple devices and I use either my iPhone or iPad to ATV4K if needed (not a fan of Android TV 11 vs. ATV4K). Not sure how to cast via LAN, any tips I'm willing to try?


----------



## Kev1000000

USB adapter works, but as soon as you turn off the projector, it kills power to the USB port and it drops off the network. =(


----------



## swirvin704

Finally moved to new house. Still waiting on my screen. Image actually looks pretty good on a close to black color painted wall during daytime. Light coming through triple dormer window. Will install blackout curtains.


----------



## kwenar

swirvin704 said:


> Finally moved to new house. Still waiting on my screen. Image actually looks pretty good on a close to black color painted wall during daytime. Light coming through triple dormer window. Will install blackout curtains.
> View attachment 3367646


Does this projector throw out a light border around the edge of the picture or does the picture go right to very edge without a border. I have a Samsung and have heard the non DLP ones do not have the annoying light border.


----------



## mcollin6

kwenar said:


> Does this projector throw out a light border around the edge of the picture or does the picture go right to very edge without a border. I have a Samsung and have heard the non DLP ones do not have the annoying light border.


Mine has no light border. I don’t use any digital manipulation, just spent time aligning the projector to the screen physically. Took me about 15 minutes to get it perfectly aligned.


----------



## kwenar

mcollin6 said:


> Mine has no light border. I don’t use any digital manipulation, just spent time aligning the projector to the screen physically. Took me about 15 minutes to get it perfectly aligned.


That’s awesome. I get halos around the edges due to it having this light border. Do you get any of that on your screen? Also what kind of 
border do you have on your screen? In inches


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

kwenar said:


> That’s awesome. I get halos around the edges due to it having this light border. Do you get any of that on your screen? Also what kind of
> border do you have on your screen? In inches


So not this projector but I put up black sticky wallpaper on the wall my screen is on and tbh the whole experience of having a projector is better for it. Totally kills the "halo".


----------



## mcollin6

kwenar said:


> That’s awesome. I get halos around the edges due to it having this light border. Do you get any of that on your screen? Also what kind of
> border do you have on your screen? In inches


I don’t get halos, but I do get light splash onto the ceiling. Doing some work to select a new lenticular screen material so I can get better performance in that area.
My current screen has a 1.5” border of black velvet.

Just to check if there is a halo, I pulled the projector back to have it shine on the wall. The light stops at the edge of the image when shown on the wall, so I don’t think the screen border is doing much.


----------



## muhur

Kev1000000 said:


> USB adapter works, but as soon as you turn off the projector, it kills power to the USB port and it drops off the network. =(


 Will it reconnect automatically when you turn the projector on?


----------



## Kev1000000

muhur said:


> Will it reconnect automatically when you turn the projector on?


Yes, it does.


----------



## APHD

Need a little help. I purchased a LS800 and the Silverflex screen. Unfortunately the screen has not arrived yet but the projector did so I picked it up and figured I would see how it looks. 
I have the Epson LS12000 and thought that if the 800 was just as good but brighter that I might replace the 12000 with it. My initial thoughts after seeing both playing the same content is the 800 is not even close to the 12000. Im hoping the screen will make a huge improvement to the picture quality. Contrast, brightness and focus is what Im referring to. The screenshots from other post in this forum appear much better than what im seeing. The room is light controlled and the 800 was projecting onto a grey wall not a screen. 


Im probably posting questions prematurely since I only have a few hours on it, but was wondering if anyone else had the same scenario.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

APHD said:


> Need a little help. I purchased a LS800 and the Silverflex screen. Unfortunately the screen has not arrived yet but the projector did so I picked it up and figured I would see how it looks.
> I have the Epson LS12000 and thought that if the 800 was just as good but brighter that I might replace the 12000 with it. My initial thoughts after seeing both playing the same content is the 800 is not even close to the 12000. Im hoping the screen will make a huge improvement to the picture quality. Contrast, brightness and focus is what Im referring to. The screenshots from other post in this forum appear much better than what im seeing. The room is light controlled and the 800 was projecting onto a grey wall not a screen.
> 
> 
> Im probably posting questions prematurely since I only have a few hours on it, but was wondering if anyone else had the same scenario.


Did you also use the 12000 the same way (projecting on a grey wall)?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Also check your 800's Laser brightness setting. If you used the factory setting out of the box (which is 50%), try raising it to approximately 75%. Also use the Dynamic setting, as it has the best contrast and brightness .
My previous projector was an Epson 5050 
and it's brightness is very similar ( I believe) to the 12000, and the 800 is clearly on a different level ( Lumens wise).


----------



## APHD

MRJAZZZ said:


> Did you also use the 12000 the same way (projecting on a grey wall)?


I did not, its easier to move the LS800 than remove the 12000 from the ceiling. I did try the 800 on my 1.1 gain white screen but I have a screen masking system which doesn't allow me to set up the 800 properly for testing . Probably not a fair comparison when projected on two different surfaces.


----------



## tjsadler

Even testing the LS800 on a 1.1 gain screen would be an unfair comparison because the light will just bounce off and hit the ceiling and walls.


----------



## SniperFox

Just ordered the ls800 with the silver flex screen, can’t wait to ascend among the gods


----------



## stargtsi

So now I am experiencing the rogue powering on randomly. So far I tried disabling wifi and hdmi cec. Still turns itself on overnight.


----------



## Winters93

German Review


----------



## Bellcraft01

stargtsi said:


> So now I am experiencing the rogue powering on randomly. So far I tried disabling wifi and hdmi cec. Still turns itself on overnight.


Do you have a Roku hooked up to it / through your AVR? I found that my Roku was powering on my LS800 until I went through some settings and one interesting secret menu it has for the remote


----------



## Bellcraft01

Is the Epson LS800 worthy of using a HDFury device to force LLDV? If so how much better does it get?


----------



## Bellcraft01

MRJAZZZ said:


> I would guess some loss of resolution with using more keystone options.....I personally wouldn't worry about it.....I have yet to see an observable loss of resolution when I use keystone options to align a picture....on any projector I have used over the years.
> However having a somewhat misaligned picture on my screen would take my OCD into overdrive...😟


I second this, I've worked my ass off trying to properly align projectors, UST and long throw both, and unless you are using over half or more of the allowable amount of keystone function, I've always concluded that the sharpness is really not affected to any naked eye observable amount. Maybe with scientific instruments one could point it out but now I just things roughly close (5 mins or less) and slap it on with some keystoning. Of course this may not apply to every projector out there but the Epson LS800 seems to be just as sharp no matter the amount of effort put forth in aligning it prior to keystone.


----------



## stargtsi

I do have my apple tv hooked to it. But I even tired hdmi cec off so it shouldn't be able to power it on or off. I ended up putting it on its own smart switch so I can turn the power off to that outlet remotely to solve it for now.


----------



## tjsadler

stargtsi said:


> I do have my apple tv hooked to it. But I even tired hdmi cec off so it shouldn't be able to power it on or off. I ended up putting it on its own smart switch so I can turn the power off to that outlet remotely to solve it for now.


I may have posted this before but for me this issue is solved by using the Epson remote as the "Power Off" remote and the AppleTV4K remote for literally everything else. I have CEC "ON" and the power button on the LS800 set to standby instead of off. I push any button on the ATV4K remote and it wakes up, powers on the AVR, and wakes the projector. When I'm done, I grab the Epson remote and push the power button once and the LS800 turns off, the AVR turns off, and the ATV4K is either in standby or off. 
That works every time and nothing powers back on unless I push a button to make it happen. If I try to use the ATV4K remote to power off, everything powers down and then randomly comes back on.


----------



## Bellcraft01

I have a Vividstorm Floor Rising screen that comes with a USB trigger that used to work while connected to my Epson LS800 for both raising and lowering the screen when powering on and off the projector. Now it will only raise the screen but doesn't go back down when powering off. Have not figured this out but the trigger works fine if I use a battery pack with usb ports to simulate powering on and off the trigger. I can't find anything in the projector settings that would maintain power to the USB ports. Not sure what exactly changed here.


----------



## aurimas1975

What's new in the latest update? Which came today


----------



## Bellcraft01

aurimas1975 said:


> What's new in the latest update? Which came today


Was there a new firmware for the LS800?


----------



## aurimas1975

Bellcraft01 said:


> Was there a new firmware for the LS800?


Yes today 1.2 version


----------



## Bellcraft01

aurimas1975 said:


> Yes today 1.2 version


Interesting. It's a bit frustrating that Epson doesn't have anything that details this stuff. I hope they added some advanced color adjustment menus, Dolby Vision or HDR10+ at least and heck, 3D would be a nice addition.


----------



## Kev1000000

Bellcraft01 said:


> Interesting. It's a bit frustrating that Epson doesn't have anything that details this stuff. I hope they added some advanced color adjustment menus, Dolby Vision or HDR10+ at least and heck, 3D would be a nice addition.


Heh, I'd be happy with stable wifi and the unit not turning itself on randomly =)


----------



## Bellcraft01

Kev1000000 said:


> Heh, I'd be happy with stable wifi and the unit not turning itself on randomly =)


Mine turned on by itself in the beginning. I was only using a Roku Ultra but I realized that when the Roku would update a menu or its home screen it would kick on the projector. However there was a secret menu I found out about online that allows you to go in and prevent it from activating a display via CEC unless the power button is pressed. Also turn off 1 touch power on feature as well.

Obviously you may not be dealing with a Roku but most likely whatever it is, it's sending some kind of CEC command when it really shouldn't be. I've had the LS800 CEC settings all ON with no further issues of it powering itself on. I've also got a Denon x3700h avr with an xbox one x on an input and the receiver has CEC on so it'll turn on the projector if powered on but I never have this issue anymore. I'm going to go look at that secret menu and double check everything in there now that I think about it.


----------



## Kev1000000

Bellcraft01 said:


> Mine turned on by itself in the beginning. I was only using a Roku Ultra but I realized that when the Roku would update a menu or its home screen it would kick on the projector. However there was a secret menu I found out about online that allows you to go in and prevent it from activating a display via CEC unless the power button is pressed. Also turn off 1 touch power on feature as well.
> 
> Obviously you may not be dealing with a Roku but most likely whatever it is, it's sending some kind of CEC command when it really shouldn't be. I've had the LS800 CEC settings all ON with no further issues of it powering itself on. I've also got a Denon x3700h avr with an xbox one x on an input and the receiver has CEC on so it'll turn on the projector if powered on but I never have this issue anymore. I'm going to go look at that secret menu and double check everything in there now that I think about it.


I have CEC off, and no other UST has ever done this in my setup, and nothing else has changed.


----------



## toxtrepla

Kev1000000 said:


> I have CEC off, and no other UST has ever done this in my setup, and nothing else has changed.


In my brief two weeks with mine I had the same issue. Drove me nuts! Ultimately returned it and tired another brand. Mine would also randomly switch inputs in the middle of games. Weird behavior all around.


----------



## mcollin6

aurimas1975 said:


> Yes today 1.2 version


I looked everywhere that I could, but can’t find any explicit differences in the V102 firmware after the upgrade. Epson doesn’t list any firmware change log either on their support site. Still no CMS adjustment. I never had an issue with Wi-Fi or powering on, so I’m not sure if that was supposed to be the fix. Anyone find out anything new?


----------



## Kev1000000

I don't want to speak too soon, but I haven't had any wifi dropoffs OR the projector turning on by itself since V102. Here's hoping both of those two issues are fixed!


----------



## MaxF

Sorry in advance if those questions were already answered but, it seems the HDMI 3 port (Gaming) has some issues on my side on the LS800. My PlayStation 5 was plugged there. First, is there anyone that can actually see the HDMI 3 port when pressing 'Inputs' on the controller? Also, when inside (playing on my PS5) the HDMI 3 port, there is no way to access the Projector settings options from the controller. There are no issues of that sort on the 2 others HDMI inputs. Finally, i have an external power bar that it plugged Optical. Again everything is working fine with the 2 first HDMI inputs, but the sound suddenly stopped working on the HDMI 3 output. I changed the cable, checked every other options, still no sound. The only way now is to use the internal projector speakers, but i would rather use my soundbar. Right now, nothing is plugged in the HDMI 3 port since it seems that only a gaming console can activate the port to appear on screen. Anything else (Blu ray player, Fire stick) does not activate the port so nothing appear on screen. And again, no way to manually select the input with the controller. It would have been an amazing projector if not have those issues.


----------



## Kev1000000

MaxF said:


> Sorry in advance if those questions were already answered but, it seems the HDMI 3 port (Gaming) has some issues on my side on the LS800. My PlayStation 5 was plugged there. First, is there anyone that can actually see the HDMI 3 port when pressing 'Inputs' on the controller? Also, when inside (playing on my PS5) the HDMI 3 port, there is no way to access the Projector settings options from the controller. There are no issues of that sort on the 2 others HDMI inputs. Finally, i have an external power bar that it plugged Optical. Again everything is working fine with the 2 first HDMI inputs, but the sound suddenly stopped working on the HDMI 3 output. I changed the cable, checked every other options, still no sound. The only way now is to use the internal projector speakers, but i would rather use my soundbar. Right now, nothing is plugged in the HDMI 3 port since it seems that only a gaming console can activate the port to appear on screen. Anything else (Blu ray player, Fire stick) does not activate the port so nothing appear on screen. And again, no way to manually select the input with the controller. It would have been an amazing projector if not have those issues.


The gaming port was designed to have super low latency, which Epson achieved by not having that port run through the main Android OS. That's why it isn't an option in the UI and you can't adjust settings while within that source.

You can get around these limitations by the following:

1) Pressing the dedicated HDMI 3/gaming button on the remote.
2) Pressing the Home button while in HDMI 3, adjusting settings, then pressing the game mode button again on the remote.


----------



## swirvin704

I get a hot spot at bottom of screen where it’s closest to the light of the projector. Anyway to get rid of this or something I have to live with being a UST?


----------



## mcollin6

swirvin704 said:


> I get a hot spot at bottom of screen where it’s closest to the light of the projector. Anyway to get rid of this or something I have to live with being a UST?
> View attachment 3374572


You need to get a UST ALR lenticular screen. This will get rid of the hotspot and also get rid of the splash onto the ceiling. The screen you have now is not designed for a projector with such a low throw ratio.


----------



## swirvin704

mcollin6 said:


> You need to get a UST ALR lenticular screen. This will get rid of the hotspot and also get rid of the splash onto the ceiling. The screen you have now is not designed for a projector with such a low throw ratio.


Any recommendations in the 120” size? Something not crazy expensive.


----------



## mcollin6

swirvin704 said:


> Any recommendations in the 120” size? Something not crazy expensive.


@ProjectionHead has A nice value screen with their Spectra Advantage. There are some cheaper ones from Akia and Elite Screens as well on Amazon, but Brian does a lot here and worth supporting.

Whatever you do, don’t get the PET GRID screen material. It’s ALR, but not lenticular. As a result, it’ll splash the ceiling almost as badly as what you’ve got now.

Brian, any suggestions?


----------



## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> @ProjectionHead has A nice value screen with their Spectra Advantage. There are some cheaper ones from Akia and Elite Screens as well on Amazon, but Brian does a lot here and worth supporting.
> 
> Whatever you do, don’t get the PET GRID screen material. It’s ALR, but not lenticular. As a result, it’ll splash the ceiling almost as badly as what you’ve got now.
> 
> Brian, any suggestions?


If you want deep black levels and good ALR performance, the Spectra Projection Vantage is our top suggestion.
If you don’t really need alr because you will have the lights out, the elite CLR2/3 are less expensive options that will work fine in the dark, but don’t stack up to the spectra or the Elitescreens DarkUST (spectra equivalent) in the light


----------



## anethema

ProjectionHead said:


> If you want deep black levels and good ALR performance, the Spectra Projection Vantage is our top suggestion.
> If you don’t really need alr because you will have the lights out, the elite CLR2/3 are less expensive options that will work fine in the dark, but don’t stack up to the spectra or the Elitescreens DarkUST (spectra equivalent) in the light


Hey Brian, you seen the Elunevision ones yourself? Good price point, LED bias lit.


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone know how to mirror the iphone onto the epson 800? Which is the best way to go to mirror it?


----------



## anethema

gr7383448 said:


> Anyone know how to mirror the iphone onto the epson 800? Which is the best way to go to mirror it?


An AppleTV would prob be the simplest.

It is androidTV though so there may be some kind of airplay app.


----------



## ProjectionHead

anethema said:


> Hey Brian, you seen the Elunevision ones yourself? Good price point, LED bias lit.


Elunevision has 2 different materials; 1 is a traditional lenticular and is their more expensive one and they have another less expensive option that has worse ALR and black levels.
Not bad screens at all, but there are less expensive and superior options here in the USA. It may be different in Canada.


----------



## anethema

ProjectionHead said:


> Elunevision has 2 different materials; 1 is a traditional lenticular and is their more expensive one and they have another less expensive option that has worse ALR and black levels.
> Not bad screens at all, but there are less expensive and superior options here in the USA. It may be different in Canada.


Ya they have the Reference 8k which is the cheaper one, and the Aurora.


ProjectionHead said:


> If you want deep black levels and good ALR performance, the Spectra Projection Vantage is our top suggestion.
> If you don’t really need alr because you will have the lights out, the elite CLR2/3 are less expensive options that will work fine in the dark, but don’t stack up to the spectra or the Elitescreens DarkUST (spectra equivalent) in the light



Ya Looks like the Aurora is sharp edge lenticular, while the reference is more of a wavey pattern.

It is too bad a good 120" screen is still over $2000. Have to save my pennies!


----------



## gr7383448

If price was not an issue can anyone give info on which one would be better between epson 800 and lg 915qb? Thanks


----------



## Kev1000000

Alright, can confidently say the wifi and random start up issues have been resolved. Nice work, Epson!


----------



## CruSH1900

Guys,
What do you think about this dark room video with dark movie scenes?





It is actually the worst scene I have seen on youtube with that one. Is it the camera of the guy, or is it really that bad with dark scenes?


----------



## Kev1000000

It's fantastic with dark content. The laser dimming + adaptive gamma does wonders. It's the camera guy + his setup.


----------



## anethema

CruSH1900 said:


> Guys,
> What do you think about this dark room video with dark movie scenes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is actually the worst scene I have seen on youtube with that one. Is it the camera of the guy, or is it really that bad with dark scenes?


That is about the worst case scenario. There are full white pixels all over so the laser can’t dim. The native contrast is actually ok but nothing too special. But the dynamic mode is excellent so in almost all content it looks very high and much better than this.
And even in this scene the camera isn’t doing the thing any favors.


----------



## isamudaison

Kev1000000 said:


> Alright, can confidently say the wifi and random start up issues have been resolved. Nice work, Epson!


I've had the opposite happen: with firmware 102 I now have the random 'turn on' events


----------



## The Power of CRT

Lightyear IMAX Enhanced Transition on Apple TV 4K

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605679405933613058


----------



## tjsadler

Another Review…
Review: The Epson EpiqVision LS800 is the king of Android TV ultra-short-throw projectors, for a hefty price


----------



## gr7383448

Anyone know what could of caused a 2-3 second of flickering screen off then back on while on the main android screen of the projector? This is twice in 2 weeks period so not often that it happens but make you wonder what maybe cause and if others have experienced this.


----------



## bino1966

Bellcraft01 said:


> I have a Vividstorm Floor Rising screen that comes with a USB trigger that used to work while connected to my Epson LS800 for both raising and lowering the screen when powering on and off the projector. Now it will only raise the screen but doesn't go back down when powering off. Have not figured this out but the trigger works fine if I use a battery pack with usb ports to simulate powering on and off the trigger. I can't find anything in the projector settings that would maintain power to the USB ports. Not sure what exactly changed here.


Could it be that your projector power button is set to suspend not to standby


----------



## PixelPusher15

Epson Owners: Would you utilize the High Speed Dynamic...


On every Epson I've tested the dynamic contrast, whether via laser dimming or dynamic iris, has been more aggressive in Dynamic Color mode. The problem with using Dynamic Color mode for this dynamic contrast is that Dynamic isn't great OOTB and requires a good amount of work to get balance. The...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Bellcraft01

bino1966 said:


> Could it be that your projector power button is set to suspend not to standby


Nah I’ve tried it both ways. Something about their trigger I believe


----------



## Winters93

I currently only use the game mode or game input. And I'm actually satisfied with the picture, do I really have the same black level in the game input in dynamic mode, or is there some disadvantage?
I can't see any difference!?


Another question is it normal for the HDR slider to be useless for live HLG footage? I can't change HLG material!?


----------



## bino1966

Bellcraft01 said:


> Nah I’ve tried it both ways. Something about their trigger I believe











T02 AC Wired Trigger Remote Control for Vividstorm Floor Rising/Drop Down Screen







vividstormscreen.com




this may sort your problem


----------



## bino1966

to those people who would like a wired internet connection it is possible using the usb port and an adapter


----------



## bino1966

this mine setup in my living room with a 100inch screen


----------



## Pulse1

bino1966 said:


> to those people who would like a wired internet connection it is possible using the usb port and an adapter


Yes it does and here is a link to the one i use on my EH-LS300 UST:https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Eth...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 It switches on and off with the Projector.


----------



## The Power of CRT

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607271997024907264


----------



## ProjectionHead

My buddy Chris Majestic just posted his review of the LS800:


----------



## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> My buddy Chris Majestic just posted his review of the LS800:


@2:40-3:00 Majestic lists the specs, and states Maximum BT2020 support. He skips over that spec in his commentary. 
Does this mean that the color gamut support has changed, that it can just read a BT2020 container, or was it just a mistake?

I don’t think you can change gamut with a software/firmware update, and I don’t think that the hardware has changed since it launched, so I’m leaning towards a mistake. Thoughts?


----------



## Dave Harper

mcollin6 said:


> @2:40-3:00 Majestic lists the specs, and states Maximum BT2020 support. He skips over that spec in his commentary.
> Does this mean that the color gamut support has changed, that it can just read a BT2020 container, or was it just a mistake?
> 
> I don’t think you can change gamut with a software/firmware update, and I don’t think that the hardware has changed since it launched, so I’m leaning towards a mistake. Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 3378663


I’m fairly certain he’s just saying it can _accept_ BT2020 color gamut signals. It definitely doesn’t render the full BT2020 gamut.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> I’m fairly certain he’s just saying it can _accept_ BT2020 color gamut signals. It definitely doesn’t render the full BT2020 gamut.


☝


----------



## gr7383448

Is there a setting to have this projector turn off automatically if you accidentally forget to turn it off?


----------



## tjsadler

gr7383448 said:


> Is there a setting to have this projector turn off automatically if you accidentally forget to turn it off?


Yes. It's in the settings under "Sleep Timer"


----------



## Winters93

Winters93 said:


> I currently only use the game mode or game input. And I'm actually satisfied with the picture, do I really have the same black level in the game input in dynamic mode, or is there some disadvantage?
> I can't see any difference!?
> 
> 
> Another question is it normal for the HDR slider to be useless for live HLG footage? I can't change HLG material!?


???


----------



## mcollin6

Winters93 said:


> ???


Yes. Don’t know about HLG.


----------



## Bellcraft01

Has anyone tried any LLDV hack with this projector via a HDFury device of some kind? I'm wanting to know if this LS800's image improves drastically enough for me to warrant going in that direction as the wife may not appreciate that purchase if the gains aren't substantial.


----------



## Gwreck

Bellcraft01 said:


> Has anyone tried any LLDV hack with this projector via a HDFury device of some kind? I'm wanting to know if this LS800's image improves drastically enough for me to warrant going in that direction as the wife may not appreciate that purchase if the gains aren't substantial.



I no longer have the ls800 but the LLDV hack worked much better with this projector than with the ls500 I also no longer have. It may be that the image quality is much better but I think the ls800 has better tone mapping overall. One specific case I can think of is the spears and Muncil test videos the 10k images were not blown out in the highlights and the 10k images seemed to look the best(LLDV or not)


----------



## Bellcraft01

Gwreck said:


> I no longer have the ls800 but the LLDV hack worked much better with this projector than with the ls500 I also no longer have. It may be that the image quality is much better but I think the ls800 has better tone mapping overall. One specific case I can think of is the spears and Muncil test videos the 10k images were not blown out in the highlights and the 10k images seemed to look the best(LLDV or not)


Thank you so much for this, I've probably asked this same question about 10 times in 10 separate discussions without any answer lol. I am very interested in seeing Dolby Vision ... er LLDV on it, I assume with the LS800's brightness, it should have a pretty good ability for HDR highlights which is generally what I enjoy most with HDR content. 

What projector did you end up going with and why did you get rid of the LS800?


----------



## tjsadler

Bellcraft01 said:


> Has anyone tried any LLDV hack with this projector via a HDFury device of some kind? I'm wanting to know if this LS800's image improves drastically enough for me to warrant going in that direction as the wife may not appreciate that purchase if the gains aren't substantial.


I'm using the Vertex 2 and have all my content via ATV4K in lldv and am very happy with the results. I couldn't say how much of an improvement it is since I've had it since I set up the projector but the DV movies and shows look great.


----------



## Bellcraft01

tjsadler said:


> I'm using the Vertex 2 and have all my content via ATV4K in lldv and am very happy with the results. I couldn't say how much of an improvement it is since I've had it since I set up the projector but the DV movies and shows look great.


I'll prob get an arcana and give it a try at some point, I love tinkering with settings on things


----------



## Dave Harper

Bellcraft01 said:


> Has anyone tried any LLDV hack with this projector via a HDFury device of some kind? I'm wanting to know if this LS800's image improves drastically enough for me to warrant going in that direction as the wife may not appreciate that purchase if the gains aren't substantial.


You should be able to get the cheap EZCoo splitter that can force LLDV for under $40. Then you just need to manually turn on HDR Mode in the projector which the LS800 should be able to do. Here’s a whole thread about it:









Alternative Devices for Enabling Low Latency Dolby...


There is an existing thread discussing ways to enable Player-led Dolby Vision (aka Low Latency Dolby Vision, or LLDV) when the display does not have this capability. Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on... The thread is very long but the basic principle is: Add a "spoofer" that...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Bellcraft01

Dave Harper said:


> You should be able to get the cheap EZCoo splitter that can force LLDV for under $40. Then you just need to manually turn on HDR Mode in the projector which the LS800 should be able to do. Here’s a whole thread about it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alternative Devices for Enabling Low Latency Dolby...
> 
> 
> There is an existing thread discussing ways to enable Player-led Dolby Vision (aka Low Latency Dolby Vision, or LLDV) when the display does not have this capability. Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on... The thread is very long but the basic principle is: Add a "spoofer" that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Thanks for the info, oddly I just don't see anywhere on the LS800 to force HDR mode. Seems it just auto detects it so I'm thinking the EZCoo probably wont work. Unless there's just some secret menu on the thing.


----------



## Fox_10

> I've probably asked this same question about 10 times in 10 separate discussions without any answer lol



I stopped replying to you then because:

1. the difference everyone weights differently
2. you will try it anyway, because you are curious. ;-)

Here I have generated two sliders:

Slider 1
Slider 2 Here the labeling is reversed


----------



## Fox_10

Dave Harper said:


> Then you just need to manually turn on HDR Mode in the projector which the LS800 should be able to do.


I think that is only possible with Epson long throw projectors.


----------



## Bellcraft01

Fox_10 said:


> I stopped replying to you then because:
> 
> 1. the difference everyone weights differently
> 2. you will try it anyway, because you are curious. ;-)
> 
> Here I have generated two sliders:
> 
> Slider 1
> Slider 2


Wow this is pretty impressive. Thank you for this, the sliders show pretty much what I had envisioned being the difference but wasn't certain about. I definitely appreciate it. Yeah this would be worth while doing for LLDV. I think the LS800 looks great out of the box and / or adjusted to taste per each display mode but using LLDV looks like you are able to expand your available options quite a lot with the additional DTM coming from the player in Dolby Vision. I generally don't like the Cinema mode on the LS800 even though I can clearly see less clipping and wider color gamut, the dynamic color mode just pops better, looks better to my eye in motion, and contrast along with black level seems more satisfying. Now if LLDV use along with the Cinema can bring this contract and pop over along with the better color gamut that Cinema mode offers, then wow.


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## Dave Harper

Bellcraft01 said:


> Thanks for the info, oddly I just don't see anywhere on the LS800 to force HDR mode. Seems it just auto detects it so I'm thinking the EZCoo probably wont work. Unless there's just some secret menu on the thing.





Fox_10 said:


> I think that is only possible with Epson long throw projectors.


Oh OK, thanks for clarifying. That sucks.


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## Fox_10

Bellcraft01 said:


> ...


I now only use Natural Mode, as Dynamic Mode is too twisted.

With a few small adjustments (you can't adjust much anyway) the Natural Mode is pretty accurate...


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## Bellcraft01

Fox_10 said:


> I now only use Natural Mode, as Dynamic Mode is too twisted.
> 
> With a few small adjustments (you can't adjust much anyway) the Natural Mode is pretty accurate...
> View attachment 3379391
> View attachment 3379392


That is very interesting. I've not given Natural Mode a chance really. I just now switched over to it and... it is darker but I think color does look more... correct. I have no instruments to check this with but to my eye I can see whites and blues seem more accurate than Cinema or Dynamic color modes.


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## Gwreck

Bellcraft01 said:


> Thank you so much for this, I've probably asked this same question about 10 times in 10 separate discussions without any answer lol. I am very interested in seeing Dolby Vision ... er LLDV on it, I assume with the LS800's brightness, it should have a pretty good ability for HDR highlights which is generally what I enjoy most with HDR content.
> 
> What projector did you end up going with and why did you get rid of the LS800?


I took the ls800 back for a full refund and got the TCL 98xl for the Black Friday price. I’m very happy with especially as my basement room has no light control. The ls800 definitely is a nice unit though. 

I think there are many people on these forums with much more experience and knowledge than me but the ls800 especially with the LLDV hack just had a really pleasing and punchy image(to me).


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## Bellcraft01

Gwreck said:


> I took the ls800 back for a full refund and got the TCL 98xl for the Black Friday price. I’m very happy with especially as my basement room has no light control. The ls800 definitely is a nice unit though.
> 
> I think there are many people on these forums with much more experience and knowledge than me but the ls800 especially with the LLDV hack just had a really pleasing and punchy image(to me).


I totally get that exchange. Had there been a 95-100" OLED for around 8K or less I'd done the same thing. Had the TCL been more around 5K I may have done that. Thanks for that, I'll look into a HDFury device soon then and see what I can do with it. I came from an Optoma UHD65 projector that had it's HDMI board go bad and decided to just upgrade and the LS800 has been such an amazing upgrade to that along with the CLR screen I've paired with it.


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## tomgru

bino1966 said:


> this mine setup in my living room with a 100inch screen
> View attachment 3377639


Is that your center channel on the top?


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## Dave Harper

Bellcraft01 said:


> I totally get that exchange. Had there been a 95-100" OLED for around 8K or less I'd done the same thing. *Had the TCL been more around 5K I may have done that. *Thanks for that, I'll look into a HDFury device soon then and see what I can do with it. I came from an Optoma UHD65 projector that had it's HDMI board go bad and decided to just upgrade and the LS800 has been such an amazing upgrade to that along with the CLR screen I've paired with it.


The Black Friday price was right at $5K if I’m not mistaken. I was tempted myself!


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## bino1966

tomgru said:


> Is that your center channel on the top?


Yes the monitor golds do left and right and the Kef eggs do front hieght with 2 more for the surround so a basic 7.1 set up for atmos


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## Gwreck

Dave Harper said:


> The Black Friday price was right at $5K if I’m not mistaken. I was tempted myself!


Yes the 5k was the price and I jumped on it immediately. Now only if the 97 inch oled were that price.


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## bino1966

Even if you buy a 97inch tv it's the reflections
My epson and an alr screen is easier to watch in daylight than my old 65inch lcd tv


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## Gwreck

bino1966 said:


> Even if you buy a 97inch tv it's the reflections
> My epson and an alr screen is easier to watch in daylight than my old 65inch lcd tv


Reflections are definitely worse on the TV. For my situation the tcl is better but I can imagine situations where the Epson or similar would be better. My set up doesn’t allow me to have any larger than 100 inch screen and if 120-150 inch was an option the UST would be my choice. 

My actual ideal choice would be a 10x10 sound proof safe room where I sit 6 ft from the 97 inch oled where my TV and audio system is safe from kids and pets.


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## gr7383448

Can someone help me, I don’t understand why couple of the reviewers are saying no 4k on this epson even though they advertise it, i compared picture quality to my 77” inch oled from early 2021 and the quality is pretty close with oled coming on top. Also what would a 4 way pixel shift meant when compared to the 2 way pixel shift this projector has? Thanks


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## mcollin6

gr7383448 said:


> Can someone help me, I don’t understand why couple of the reviewers are saying no 4k on this epson even though they advertise it, i compared picture quality to my 77” inch oled from early 2021 and the quality is pretty close with oled coming on top. Also what would a 4 way pixel shift meant when compared to the 2 way pixel shift this projector has? Thanks


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## Newbie1963

Are any of the UST projectors "TRUE" 4K ? No pixel shifting?


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## Fox_10

Currently there is none.
Sony had one in its program with the VPL-VZ1000ES.


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## gr7383448

I just ran into video where Brian from projector screen did a 2 minute shootout between epson 500 & Hisense L9G, which clearly showed the better projector, i wish he could tell us how much better picture quality is when comparing Epson Ls800 with L9G. I want to see if Hisense L9H is worth waiting for and return the Ls800.


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## bino1966

If you bought it , live with it , how can you return it on the basis some thing else is better 
If you could I would be on an 100inch oled for the price of a 12 inch portable TV in 1976


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## gr7383448

I get what you’re saying but my plan is to keep one until a decent 120 inch tv comes out that’s affordable, I believe it will be some years before we see that.


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## Bellcraft01

gr7383448 said:


> I get what you’re saying but my plan is to keep one until a decent 120 inch tv comes out that’s affordable, I believe it will be some years before we see that.


Agree


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## Remy.Alexander

Anyone with the LS800 have access to MillSkin Spandex white over black? Love to see those results.


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## Newbie1963

To the people who have reviewed and/or owns the LS800. Do you think this is a big upgrade over the LS300? The color volume and the fact it’s putting about 4 million pixels on the screen instead of the 8 million pixels that other 4K UST projectors do is concerning. I could get the Formovie, but I would have to go from a 115” screen down to a 103 or 106” screen.


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## Bellcraft01

Newbie1963 said:


> To the people who have reviewed and/or owns the LS800. Do you think this is a big upgrade over the LS300? The color volume and the fact it’s putting about 4 million pixels on the screen instead of the 8 million pixels that other 4K UST projectors do is concerning. I could get the Formovie, but I would have to go from a 115” screen down to a 103 or 106” screen.


I can't compare it to the LS300 but it very much beats the hell out of an Optoma UHD65 by a long shot. Personally the sharpness looks pretty much on par with any 4K tv I've ever stuck my eyeball up to so I don't really feel like its lacking in sharpness really although I understand that there is technically sharper 4K projectors. The bigger takeaway is color gamut and this one is impressive. I think the Formovie would be ever so slightly wider in that area but lacking in brightness will definitely limit you to when or how you can use the projector. I think out of the box the LS800 looks great and can be adjusted to taste pretty easily. I love the fact that there is no RBE with it. That used to aggravate me a lot with previous DLP projectors.


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## gr7383448

Bellcraft01 said:


> I can't compare it to the LS300 but it very much beats the hell out of an Optoma UHD65 by a long shot. Personally the sharpness looks pretty much on par with any 4K tv I've ever stuck my eyeball up to so I don't really feel like its lacking in sharpness really although I understand that there is technically sharper 4K projectors. The bigger takeaway is color gamut and this one is impressive. I think the Formovie would be ever so slightly wider in that area but lacking in brightness will definitely limit you to when or how you can use the projector. I think out of the box the LS800 looks great and can be adjusted to taste pretty easily. I love the fact that there is no RBE with it. That used to aggravate me a lot with previous DLP projectors.


Projectors like Hisense Lg9 triple laser are probably little sharper than this one but not large enough to warrant to choose them over Ls800 , they also have nicer features like dolby, eARC. The throw ratio of Ls800 is better, better game lag, and more brighter. People whose work involves comparing these projectors can see bigger differences than the average user. It would be nice if anyone who has had both Hisense L9g and Epson Ls800 can tell us how much sharper would Hisense L9g be to the average user. I don’t know if there is any other projector more sharper than the Hisense Lg9 maybe Lg 915 qb going by the reviews. Some feedback will be nice. Thanks


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## CruSH1900

I just got my Epson LS800 4 days ago and I am still quite fascinated.

I have a 125" white screen (0.9 - 1.1 gain) and used the entry level Acer P5530i which is listed with 4000 Ansi Lumens (but we all know that Acer fakes these numbers with white light only). Furthermore, it already had 10.000 hours in eco mode, so it was not as bright as a couple of years ago.
This setup is/was my daily TV setup (also during daytime) in a non-light-controlled living room.

Then I turned on the Espon at the same white (non ALR, non UST) screen, and the picture was extremely bright and vivid.

It was really burning the picture into my eyes.
After 10 minutes I needed to stop and adjust the settings in a way that the projector is less bright and less colorful to be able to watch it.

So, I switched from the default mode "Vivid" to "Natural", lowered the brightness slider to 50%, and changed in the advanced settings the brightness from 50 to 48.

Still after all of that, it looks like an OLED to me.

Of course as many said, the noise is not noticeable when the brightness slider is below 70% and it is on 50% now for me, but to be honest, the brightness slider just makes a real difference between 0 and 40%.

It comes with the "Super Resolution" feature. I am unsure about that but it looks just fascinating when pushed to the max. But in other reviews they noticed that this mode changed some details in pictures. I did not notice it. I will play around with it as I found no negative impact yet, or at least I don't know at which level the negative impacts might show up.
Did some of you already figure out which Super-Resolution level to chose with mostly just positive impact? BTW: Most of the content I watch is Full HD SDR.

The only thing that I felt is really bad is the frame interpolation.
I never used a device with frame interpolation, so it was a first for me.
And all frame interpolation modes noticeably had stutters inside.
Yes, you could see a second without stutter and very smooth (smoother than the original), but then the next second you can clearly notice multiple skipped frames which feels odd.

But maybe I am just very sensitive to that as I play competitive shooters with 400 frames per second on 280 hz screens.
Still, it was not watchable for me and I had to disable frame interpolation completely.

The picture on the white screen is so good, that I will probably postpone the purchase of a new screen until moving into my new home in 4 months.

Even the blacks are pretty black to me.

Anyway, very happy with it so far.

In a next step I need to check which screen I will buy in 4 months.
I assume that an CLR screen with 0.5 - 0.8 gain would be significantly darker and I would need to push up the brightness a again?

So far, I have no idea if my daylight TV/sports setup would better benefit from a 0.5 gain UST or from a 0.8 gain UST.
Anybody compared that during daylight?


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