# Screenshot War!!!!!!!!



## overclkr

So I was thinking it's time once again to waste some bandwidth and post some nice shots.


I have a few movies in mind and I'm definitely going to find some time this weekend with the camera. Anyone game????











Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11489350
> 
> 
> Anyone game????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Well, not sure if I'll qualify for this. With only a lowly 8500 air coupled Marquee, it against two G90's in a stack...










Anyway, maybe the 9" projectors would be the best challengers, but if it's alright for me to jump in here every now and then with my measly 8" marquee...


Count me in!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff,

You are the King Kong of screen shot meisters on AVScience Forum ! This is not in dispute IMHO.










Art


----------



## Gordon Shumway

Why???


----------



## RVonse

Bring it on Cliffy!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11489531
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> You are the King Kong of screen shot meisters on AVScience Forum ! This is not in dispute IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



No he is the King Kong.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11489430
> 
> 
> Well, not sure if I'll qualify for this. With only a lowly 8500 air coupled Marquee, it against two G90's in a stack...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, maybe the 9" projectors would be the best challengers, but if it's alright for me to jump in here every now and then with my measly 8" marquee...
> 
> 
> Count me in!



First of all, you will get to post some kick ass screenshots after you and Ken get done with the Blend. I'm actually thinking that if you don't mind, I would like to be there with you when all of the sources are set up and Ken is doing greyscale.


Hopefully we can make it happen. We'll see.


Second of all, that marquee is doing some serious justice considering that it's AC, not professionaly calibrated, and dude, get that damn speaker the hell out of there!!!!!!!!
























BTW, which you have done on a lot of yoiur screenshots. It's looking FANTASTIC. WOW.


Once again like I've told you before, the master Clarence has given his nod to your mods and I have personally seen huge scanlines at 1050P the last time I was at Williams.


So looking foward to coming back out.......


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11489531
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> You are the King Kong of screen shot meisters on AVScience Forum ! This is not in dispute IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



I think that I'm having Penis Envy. I keep looking at myself and just cant help that my penis is so big that we might have to turn this into a who has the biggest penis in AVS thread.
























Yes Art, the wine is flowing. For some reason I feel like I'm stoned too.


I really don't know why?










Cliffy


----------



## Gary Murrell

that new Fifth Element remaster is the ****, I am going to have to get some up of that on my lowly 1352, later this weekend, here are some for kicks with the DVDO VP50pro:











































































-Gary


----------



## overclkr

Dude, I love your shots. Very nice and a very nice example of that "lowly" 8" LC.


How many hours are on it now? I swear dude, I have been POUNDING my G90's.


I just cant help it. :^)


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Ok, time to bring back the past:











Yummy!


----------



## overclkr

14mb comcast:


----------



## overclkr




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## overclkr

Oooooohhhhhh the buildup..............


----------



## overclkr












































Damn, this is easy so far.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




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## overclkr












:^)


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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## Gino AUS

Cliffy, I agree with Art, you win hands down.


and Mike, I'd say your 8" is definitely up to the task, 1080p72... absolutely loving it!


But if you're asking whose is biggest? I think I'm ahead perhaps... 13' anyone?


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/11489831
> 
> 
> that new Fifth Element remaster is the ****, I am going to have to get some up of that on my lowly 1352, later this weekend, here are some for kicks with the DVDO VP50pro:
> 
> -Gary



Gary,


FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.


Terry


----------



## Charles R

Mine are rather weak compared to the big boys but here's a few...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11490428
> 
> 
> Cliffy, I agree with Art, you win hands down.
> 
> 
> and Mike, I'd say your 8" is definitely up to the task, 1080p72... absolutely loving it!
> 
> 
> But if you're asking whose is biggest? I think I'm ahead perhaps... 13' anyone?



Mike has been posting some really kick ass screenshots lately. I cant believe how good the colors are. Like I said before, considering that there has been no "official" calibration on that Marquee that I know of, his marquee sure does look spot on.


I hope he can find the time to set it up at the meet.


So, your penis is 13"????? So THATS why Jess loves you so much!
























Cliffy


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## overclkr

Here are some from the Blue Ray forum that I like:


----------



## overclkr

A few more from the Blue Ray forum that kick ass:


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## overclkr

I'd hit it!!!!!!!!!!











I love the colors in this one.


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## antorsae

Here's some:





























I'd say I am still dialing in the PJs...I'll post some more within one month, once my MP Specials are in the PJs!


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## overclkr

That looks f'ing awesome big dog! I love the one with you standing in front of the screen.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charles R* /forum/post/11491525
> 
> Mine are rather weak compared to the big boys but here's a few...



How did I miss this one?


That is incredibly sharp. What projector????


Cliff


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11491212
> 
> 
> Gary,
> 
> 
> FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.
> 
> 
> Terry



It sure does! Perhaps even all color seem too hot.

Cliff what dcamera is this?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gordon Shumway* /forum/post/11489558
> 
> 
> Why???



No real reason... It's just a way to kick it..










Or put it another way, I like showing off my lowly 8500..










And I think Cliff is worse than I am, so we both live for these moments..


----------



## Alan Gouger

Im again and again amazed at the screen caps posted in this forum.


Heres what my eyes are seeing comparing screen shots betwen digital and crt.


DLP has plenty of ANSI but lacks the ultimate on/off. Color can be thin compared to CRT.

LCos has superior on/off over DLP but its lacking ANSI. Color looks pastel or cartoon like at times.

Both show contouring issues and gamma issues more so then CRT.


CRT seams to have the best balance and the black level is captured and displayed very well in these screen shots.


A few questions:


1. Do you notice any additional contouring issues when going DVI/digital ( moome card ) into the projector.


2. Ringing my pet peeve. I would think "digital in" would improve this as well as some of the mods you guys are doing now. I have yet to see any of these fine projectors in action but these screen shots have me thinking im missing something and maybe I should grab a hot rodded crt to play with.


----------



## Charles R




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11491963
> 
> 
> How did I miss this one?
> 
> 
> That is incredibly sharp. What projector????
> 
> 
> Cliff



It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charles R* /forum/post/11492988
> 
> 
> It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).



Ah, that's why I noticed the pixelization on the edge of the shirt beneath his chin and also on the ears or maybe just the camera? But still looks great.


This is an awesome thread!


----------



## Mr Bob

I just typed up a review of my observations of Cliff's G 90 double-stack. I know he's been wanting to see what I was gonna say -


Here it is -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was finally able to settle back here today and write a spell, having gotten home yesterday late from Midway airport, and have been chomping at the bit to report on Cliff's G90 stack, in more detail.


This system really has to be experienced to be believed. Gotta say, the screenshots Cliff has been putting up here in this section are amazing, but nothing can prepare you for the ultimate event of being immersed in it, in action.


He uses a 1 gain cloth screen, which is not only totally devoid of hotspotting, but is also completely acoustically transparent. No holes in this one, it's CLOTH! Complete acoustic transparency, and with the power of his double-stacking setup, effortlessly puts out the gain and the footlamberts. He showed me one pj on all white on his massive screen rather than both, and there was the light level I would expect on such a size - what on a regular sized screen would look like 80IRE gray. But when he kicked the other pj back on and both were showing again, the white was immediately dazzlingly white again, with effortless punch.



The darks were another thing, where I learned some new stuff about contrast ratio. Had not thought of this before.


CRT goes all the way down to complete black, even blacker than movie film.


So when you double-stack a pj sys, of course the whites are all doubled in light level, but aren't the blacks as well? They are on fixed pixel. We still have to conform to the medium the contant was shot in, and most content is still shot on film and transfered to HD. So you can't actually really clamp to black completely when showing something shot on film. You have to conform to the blackness of the film's blacks, or the gamma won't register right.


With the special gamma instrument Cliff has in his signal path, his blacks register accurately right down to the floor. There was an all black scene for a few seconds, and he says, "See that? You can't touch that with fixed pixel." And he's right. Not even close.


What I realized in that moment, of seeing a black that was actually darker than movie film, is that 2 times virtual zero is still virtually zero! Sure, double stacking doubles the whites very obviously, but it does NOT double the blacks noticeably at all. There's an expansion that happens with double stacking CRT tech that is unapproachable in fixed pixel bulb driven. The whites double obviously, whereas the blacks, since they are so dark anyway and thus have almost no light in them at all, double also - but so what? What is virtual zero times 2???


As a result, the contrast ratio on his double stack is phenomenally more than it would be on a single stack of the same pj. The actual contrast ratio effectively gets doubled.



We did several demos, and I was impressed with his system, to say the least. But I still had reservations, for some reason. We put up a nice, tight crosshatch pattern, and I saw the reservation - there had been some drift, and it was impinging on the picture.


We both together set about to redo the image positioning and zone convergence, which is where it had primarily drifted. He is a master of how to do this now that Ken has put everything in place originally, and in short order we had things back to where I thought they had been out of the starting gate. Cliff had just had too many things on his plate before I arrived, to do this especially for me, and I found that quite understandable.


Afterwards, we settled down and looked at some more stuff - Casino Royale especially - then I saw what I had been looking for. We were sitting so close to the screen that it surrounded us, much like the old Cinerama screens did, but I was still able to study the grain of the film used to shoot the movie.


When you are that close and you can do that, you've DEFINITELY got it dialed in!


The precision of everything else we watched that had been currently filmed - the John Wayne stuff, while impressive for that age, just didn't have the high precision of today's stuff - was mesmerizing. I just sat there and stared. I have never seen a screen that big that I could sit THAT close to and still have everything stay razor sharp.


His audio was something else. He put in Matrix II and played the scene where they were being invaded by the bots coming in thru the ceiling, and the sound pressure level was so intense that my hair was chattering, around my face! But no peaks of high bass that can otherwise ruin a high decible sound track. Nope, none of that here. Clean and sizzlingly equalized, so that it could be turned up incredibly high, with no problems at all, just like the 500 watt sound system I used to have in my Mazda RX2. Most people don't know how incredibly high sound pressure levels can get with no hearing damage at all, when the sound is accurately equalized. I used to install high end car stereos, so I know what's possible. Cliff has it nailed, and I don't even know if there is an equalizer in the equipment stack.


Before he opened up the Matrix chapter, I asked him if he was going to install butt kickers. He said, "Reserve that question to after this clip, then ask me that again." After that, there was no need to ask!



This is definitely the best set of HD images I have ever seen. It's the closest thing to ideal one could possibly imagine, it's just freakin' palpable!


My compliments to Ken, and to Cliff for all the little things in between the source and the pj, that also had to be taken care of one by one over the weeks and months - and the learning he had to do over the years - to get to this final result.


And my thanks for his very generous hospitality while I was in the Chicago area.


Check it out if you get the chance, it's worth the drive!











Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11492578
> 
> 
> No real reason... It's just a way to kick it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or put it another way, I like showing off my lowly 8500..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I think Cliff is worse than I am, so we both live for these moments..



Yes we do my friend.










BTW, your 8500 was only lowly until you got your hands on it. Now it's up there with the cream of the crop.

















Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11492199
> 
> 
> It sure does! Perhaps even all color seem too hot.
> 
> Cliff what dcamera is this?



I have a Kodak Easy Share Z740. I also use a tripod.


I cant wait to take it to Art's for screenshots of his new killer setup!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/11492715
> 
> 
> Im again and again amazed at the screen caps posted in this forum.
> 
> 
> Heres what my eyes are seeing comparing screen shots betwen digital and crt.
> 
> 
> DLP has plenty of ANSI but lacks the ultimate on/off. Color can be thin compared to CRT.
> 
> LCos has superior on/off over DLP but its lacking ANSI. Color looks pastel or cartoon like at times.
> 
> Both show contouring issues and gamma issues more so then CRT.
> 
> 
> CRT seams to have the best balance and the black level is captured and displayed very well in these screen shots.
> 
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Do you notice any additional contouring issues when going DVI/digital ( moome card ) into the projector.
> 
> 
> 2. Ringing my pet peeve. I would think "digital in" would improve this as well as some of the mods you guys are doing now. I have yet to see any of these fine projectors in action but these screen shots have me thinking im missing something and maybe I should grab a hot rodded crt to play with.


































Um, I think we have just made history. Alan is thinking about going CRT again??????
































:^)


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charles R* /forum/post/11492988
> 
> 
> It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).



NOTHING in front projection can match the sharpness of DLP. I was absolutely FLOORED when I saw the HT5000 at Art's house. 1080P from DLP is smoking. It's still a bit pixleated for me as I'm a front row one screenwidth guy so I'm REALLY looking foward to when 4K DLP projectors come to market and are affordable for consumers.


When that happens, digital in home theater will reach it's pinnacle. Not to mention the RAPID advancement in on off contrast in the last couple of years.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11493310
> 
> 
> I just typed up a review of my observations of Cliff's G 90 double-stack. I know he's been wanting to see what I was gonna say -
> 
> 
> Here it is -
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> I was finally able to settle back here today and write a spell, having gotten home yesterday late from Midway airport, and have been chomping at the bit to report on Cliff's G90 stack, in more detail.
> 
> 
> This system really has to be experienced to be believed. Gotta say, the screenshots Cliff has been putting up here in this section are amazing, but nothing can prepare you for the ultimate event of being immersed in it, in action.
> 
> 
> He uses a 1 gain cloth screen, which is not only totally devoid of hotspotting, but is also completely acoustically transparent. No holes in this one, it's CLOTH! Complete acoustic transparency, and with the power of his double-stacking setup, effortlessly puts out the gain and the footlamberts. He showed me one pj on all white on his massive screen rather than both, and there was the light level I would expect on such a size - what on a regular sized screen would look like 80IRE gray. But when he kicked the other pj back on and both were showing again, the white was immediately dazzlingly white again, with effortless punch.
> 
> 
> 
> The darks were another thing, where I learned some new stuff about contrast ratio. Had not thought of this before.
> 
> 
> CRT goes all the way down to complete black, even blacker than movie film.
> 
> 
> So when you double-stack a pj sys, of course the whites are all doubled in light level, but aren't the blacks as well? They are on fixed pixel. We still have to conform to the medium the contant was shot in, and most content is still shot on film and transfered to HD. So you can't actually really clamp to black completely when showing something shot on film. You have to conform to the blackness of the film's blacks, or the gamma won't register right.
> 
> 
> With the special gamma instrument Cliff has in his signal path, his blacks register accurately right down to the floor. There was an all black scene for a few seconds, and he says, "See that? You can't touch that with fixed pixel." And he's right. Not even close.
> 
> 
> What I realized in that moment, of seeing a black that was actually darker than movie film, is that 2 times virtual zero is still virtually zero! Sure, double stacking doubles the whites very obviously, but it does NOT double the blacks noticeably at all. There's an expansion that happens with double stacking CRT tech that is unapproachable in fixed pixel bulb driven. The whites double obviously, whereas the blacks, since they are so dark anyway and thus have almost no light in them at all, double also - but so what? What is virtual zero times 2???
> 
> 
> As a result, the contrast ratio on his double stack is phenomenally more than it would be on a single stack of the same pj. The actual contrast ratio effectively gets doubled.
> 
> 
> 
> We did several demos, and I was impressed with his system, to say the least. But I still had reservations, for some reason. We put up a nice, tight crosshatch pattern, and I saw the reservation - there had been some drift, and it was impinging on the picture.
> 
> 
> We both together set about to redo the image positioning and zone convergence, which is where it had primarily drifted. He is a master of how to do this now that Ken has put everything in place originally, and in short order we had things back to where I thought they had been out of the starting gate. Cliff had just had too many things on his plate before I arrived, to do this especially for me, and I found that quite understandable.
> 
> 
> Afterwards, we settled down and looked at some more stuff - Casino Royale especially - then I saw what I had been looking for. We were sitting so close to the screen that it surrounded us, much like the old Cinerama screens did, but I was still able to study the grain of the film used to shoot the movie.
> 
> 
> When you are that close and you can do that, you've DEFINITELY got it dialed in!
> 
> 
> The precision of everything else we watched that had been currently filmed - the John Wayne stuff, while impressive for that age, just didn't have the high precision of today's stuff - was mesmerizing. I just sat there and stared. I have never seen a screen that big that I could sit THAT close to and still have everything stay razor sharp.
> 
> 
> His audio was something else. He put in Matrix II and played the scene where they were being invaded by the bots coming in thru the ceiling, and the sound pressure level was so intense that my hair was chattering, around my face! But no peaks of high bass that can otherwise ruin a high decible sound track. Nope, none of that here. Clean and sizzlingly equalized, so that it could be turned up incredibly high, with no problems at all, just like the 500 watt sound system I used to have in my Mazda RX2. Most people don't know how incredibly high sound pressure levels can get with no hearing damage at all, when the sound is accurately equalized. I used to install high end car stereos, so I know what's possible. Cliff has it nailed, and I don't even know if there is an equalizer in the equipment stack.
> 
> 
> Before he opened up the Matrix chapter, I asked him if he was going to install butt kickers. He said, "Reserve that question to after this clip, then ask me that again." After that, there was no need to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> This is definitely the best set of HD images I have ever seen. It's the closest thing to ideal one could possibly imagine, it's just freakin' palpable!
> 
> 
> My compliments to Ken, and to Cliff for all the little things in between the source and the pj, that also had to be taken care of one by one over the weeks and months - and the learning he had to do over the years, to get to this final result.
> 
> 
> And my thanks for his very generous hospitality while I was in the Chicago area.
> 
> 
> Check it out if you get the chance, it's worth the drive!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Wow BOB! That is an awesome write up! Thanks so much!


I'm sorry I ended up so busy yesterday at work and couldn't help you more. It looks like you had a nice safe trip home. I hope you had a nice time and were comfortable!


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr

Here is a couple of awesome screenshots for you guys:


Art's new screen:








































Here is his old one he used for the Stack:











Damn that thing is HUGE!!!! Talk about a SCREENWALL!!!!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11493478
> 
> 
> Wow BOB! That is an awesome write up! Thanks so much!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I ended up so busy yesterday at work and couldn't help you more. It looks like you had a nice safe trip home. I hope you had a nice time and were comfortable!
> 
> 
> Cliff




Absolutely! Next time I really have to see some of Chicago, tho. This trip was way too short!











Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11493425
> 
> 
> I have a Kodak Easy Share Z740. I also use a tripod.
> 
> 
> I cant wait to take it to Art's for screenshots of his new killer setup!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Kodak..Your shots are incredibly rich and smooth. Good work there.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11494230
> 
> 
> Kodak..Your shots are incredibly rich and smooth. Good work there.




That's one of the things I like best about high echelon triple-gun CRT work - the end product has no dithering, no artifacts, no turbulence around the edges, full of true richness, no badly upconverted fillers to produce graininess and blotchiness -


I was at a Costco the other day observing their fixed pixel offerings, and the dithering, graininess and turbulence was thru the roof! Ecchh!



Mr Bob


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11491212
> 
> 
> Gary,
> 
> 
> FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.
> 
> 
> Terry



yep I noticed that, pretty bad


I promise all camera related Terry










any of you DC junkies out there have any explanation for the red push? these are with the Panasonic TZ1


-Gary


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/11494445
> 
> 
> yep I noticed that, pretty bad
> 
> 
> I promise all camera related Terry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any of you DC junkies out there have any explanation for the red push? these are with the Panasonic TZ1
> 
> 
> -Gary



Glad to hear it isn't the setup Gary.....


Terry


----------



## Gary Murrell

thanks Terry


-Gary


----------



## CaspianM

My Canon point and shoot crushes black and it also adds saturation to the original as well.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I'd post but what would be the point







... dam flash light ha


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11496072
> 
> 
> I'd post but what would be the point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... dam flash light ha



Oh I got somethin' fo yo ass.....


Give me a minute to dig it up......










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Ok, found it.










RS1 vs. Sony G90 stack green grid:











Cliffy


P.S. look down for more.


----------



## overclkr

RS1 color bars:











Convergence:











Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11496072
> 
> 
> I'd post but what would be the point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... dam flash light ha



My screen shot is from a flash light.


----------



## overclkr

Ok guys, here we go.










































































:^)


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr

Boy, I've got some kick ass screenshots from that RS1. Smoking ass projector. I really like it a lot. It's not a G90 stack, but for what it costs, dump a 300 watt UHP bulb, some better colorimatry adjustments and bammmmm.


Bump the contrast for me please too to about 40,000 to one and I will jump in a HEARTBEAT.


One thing though. I'm waiting for my tubes to wear.
























You guys are witnessing me in absolute nirvana. I couldn't ask for better.


Thank God for this forum. AVS has been the BEST hangout since day one for me. If it wasn't for AVS, a lot of us would not have become family.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Thank you sir I still can't believe my RS1 looked like that on a 10' screen. I'll just have to live with my sub 9' (104") for now. Still looks like that after 247 hours on the bulb.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11497447
> 
> 
> Thank you sir I still can't believe my RS1 looked like that on a 10' screen. I'll just have to live with my sub 9' (104") for now. Still looks like that after 247 hours on the bulb.



Dude, EVERYTHING about that projector is kick ass except just that little bit of UMPH on light.


It's coming.


Now give me that full FTB (LASER), not make it TOO SHARP, retain that film look on a big ass screen and like I said before, BAMMMMMMMMMM!










So Don, when I told you that you would be happy with your decision did you believe me?











Cliffy


----------



## Razter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11497329
> 
> 
> Bump the contrast for me please too to about 40,000 to one and I will jump in a HEARTBEAT.


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=901155


----------



## mp20748

I had a bit of work to do in the community yesterday, so I'll have to post shots starting today.


----------



## mp20748

More...


----------



## mp20748

More


----------



## mp20748

*1920x1080P @ 72hz*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

  

Shot with Canon PowerShot A560 at 2007-07-07

 

Shot with Canon PowerShot A560 at 2007-07-07


----------



## mp20748




----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/11494445
> 
> 
> yep I noticed that, pretty bad
> 
> 
> I promise all camera related Terry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any of you DC junkies out there have any explanation for the red push? these are with the Panasonic TZ1
> 
> 
> -Gary



Gary, try to set the white balance manually using this procedure:










Instead of pointing the camera at a white sheet of paper, point it at a full white screen from your source (make sure the white area fills the whole sensor/viewfinder). Maybe your VP50 has a full white test pattern you can use.


Kai


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11497474
> 
> 
> Dude, EVERYTHING about that projector is kick ass except just that little bit of UMPH on light.
> 
> 
> It's coming.
> 
> 
> Now give me that full FTB (LASER), not make it TOO SHARP, retain that film look on a big ass screen and like I said before, BAMMMMMMMMMM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Don, when I told you that you would be happy with your decision did you believe me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Cliff your a friend, a gentlemen and a person I look up to. You would never steer me wrong, you were 100% right about this unit. Looking at rumors this coming year may bring some very good options. I only have on regret, they will keep getting better of course I could upgrade but..


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I forget what the proper name is, but can't you just put a Kodak Grey Sheet in frame an use that to make sure the White / Black levels are right by adjusting your levels in photoshop. This would not change the level of the black / white levels rather allow you to set them properly calibration since you know what they are suppose to be. I have used one of these grey bars in the past while working on camera / 3d model mapping.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Razter* /forum/post/11497647
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=901155



200W Bulb.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11498039
> 
> 
> I had a bit of work to do in the community yesterday, so I'll have to post shots starting today.




Kick ass Mike!!!!! Very nice!!!! Today is the day for me to do some new ones. I'm gonna see what I can dig up.


Does anybody know how or if I can make the Toshiba A1 do frame advance?


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Other than the 200 watt bulb I'd bite, but never know it might be more effective than my RS1, it has pretty much everything that I would like the Motorized Zoom, half step on converge, more contrast, grey scale adjustment. I wonder what the MSRPness of this will be.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/11498874
> 
> 
> Gary, try to set the white balance manually using this procedure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of pointing the camera at a white sheet of paper, point it at a full white screen from your source (make sure the white area fills the whole sensor/viewfinder). Maybe your VP50 has a full white test pattern you can use.
> 
> 
> Kai



thanks dude, will give it a try










-Gary


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gary Murrell

now, those are some screenshots Mike











-Gary


----------



## spotmatic

My little addition to the screenshot war. All @ 1080p from my PS3, HDfury, and the projector is a BarcoReality 909 (no grayscale has been done yet).


----------



## overclkr

Awesome!!!!!! Keep em' coming guys!!!!!!


Cliff


----------



## Charles R




----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11500433
> 
> 
> My little addition to the screenshot war. All @ 1080p from my PS3, HDfury, and the projector is a BarcoReality 909 (no grayscale has been done yet).



I took those same screenshots months ago... from the Blu-Ray intro, right?


G90 at 1080P from PS3 blu-ray:


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Fellenz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11502931



Mike,


For the last time move that damn speaker


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fellenz* /forum/post/11503082
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> For the last time move that damn speaker



It's gone. These are all from previous shots. The projector is now warming up for a new round of shots later. So from now on that speaker will not be in the images. I hooked up a new one that's now on the floor..


----------



## nashou66

Just learning my friends camera A canon G5 i think i set the whit balance wrong and it has some red push. need to try another time.

Aeon Flux shots


















































The rest showed to much red will go try again later


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Ahhhhh, the Marquee 8000. I used to have one of those.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11503222
> 
> 
> It's gone. These are all from previous shots. The projector is now warming up for a new round of shots later. So from now on that speaker will not be in the images. I hooked up a new one that's now on the floor..













That's a nice screenshot too Mike.


Is Planet Earth 4:3 or did you crop it??


So how is William feeling lately? Is he starting to get stoked?










I'm so happy that you guys are going to be using stand alone sources for BD and HD DVD playback. That picture is going to be SMOKING dude.


Is he staying with the same screen size? I realize maybe I should be asking him these questions, but I figure you'll pass it on.










Just trying to knudge him to pop on in and start the thread a little early.


That's where we can kick it for the next couple months and hope the moderators dont shut down the thread.
























My thread I think broke AVS history in regards to the Mods being cool.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

So when you guys are looking at these screenshots are you using the AVS black or White?


I like black the best.


Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Cliffy when and where is the next meet? If i could get to it, i'd love the meet the family of AVS. Eventually i want to have a northeast meet here at my place but i want to stack my Marquees and get the MP mods for both but $$$$$ and time is all thats in the way ! And cliff those shots are on a 12 foot screen!


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

You can see how the 909 needs the grey scale to be done.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11502789
> 
> 
> I took those same screenshots months ago... from the Blu-Ray intro, right?
> 
> 
> G90 at 1080P from PS3 blu-ray:


----------



## Zues













































[/quote]



Pretty darn impressive. Does it really look that good, bright, in real life? Wow. You know color accuracy is lookin great when you can see the different skin tones and they all dont look sunburnt. I still think you modify your pics on the computer


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My little addition to the screenshot war. All @ 1080p from my PS3, HDfury, and the projector is a BarcoReality 909 (no grayscale has been done yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I took those same screenshots months ago... from the Blu-Ray intro, right?
> 
> 
> G90 at 1080P from PS3 blu-ray:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can see how the 909 needs the grey scale to be done.
Click to expand...


Too many variables with different projectors, different cameras, different photographers, etc. I think gamma might factor in too. Look in the shadow detail on the back of Drew Barrymore's chair. And compare the shadow detail of the girl in the blue bikini sunbathing in the top-left corner.


It's not just exposure settings... look at the glare on Tobey Maguire's forehead... the shiny spots start to clip on the 909 screenshot... still skintone on the G90.


----------



## nashou66

WOW .I was looking at the sand and the whites of tobys eyes . they look a little bluish . But the shadow detail on the chair is amazing.


what blu-ray intro are these on?


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11503887
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a nice screenshot too Mike



It's also one of my favorites. I rate it as a test pattern. It's good to show the linearity of the upper range (all ranges of whites before bloom). It also shows how well the Moome card handles the upper range. Check out the text("Planet Earth") and note how perfect white it is, and that there's no blooming at all in the text.



> Quote:
> Is Planet Earth 4:3 or did you crop it??



No, it's 16:9, with the camera being close to the screen.




> Quote:
> So how is William feeling lately? Is he starting to get stoked?



He's good so far. We're far enough ahead of things for any real concerns before the meet date. We plan to all all things in place near the end of the month. Right now we're curing tubes and finishing the setup.




> Quote:
> I'm so happy that you guys are going to be using stand alone sources for BD and HD DVD playback. That picture is going to be SMOKING dude



That's the only thing that makes sense now-a-days, especially if you want the quickest and simplest way to get the best HD. I'm really not into HTPC's anymore. And why bother when you can get 1080P in the raw - right from a box that also takes in the DVD..












> Quote:
> Is he staying with the same screen size? I realize maybe I should be asking him these questions, but I figure you'll pass it on.



Yes, same screen. But we're hoping to darking the area around the screen and forward of the room as well.




> Quote:
> Just trying to knudge him to pop on in and start the thread a little early



I'm sure he will. And I'm also thinking it's time to put this as a thread. Maybe you and I can twist his arm when he sees this.




> Quote:
> That's where we can kick it for the next couple months and hope the moderators dont shut down the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Naw, I think we're safe. This is all done in a good spirit, and that they don't mind. Plus this is the kind of stuff that brings great joy and excitement to the hobby. And if not for all, I know I'm not the only one out there that simply loves this stuff.


----------



## Zues

Modified a pic gary, hope you dont mind.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/11504019
> 
> 
> Pretty darn impressive. Does it really look that good, bright, in real life? Wow. You know color accuracy is lookin great when you can see the different skin tones and they all dont look sunburnt. I still think you modify your pics on the computer



Yes, but, the light output isn't quite as strong as the stack. I had to move my camera closer to the screen to capture the image.


Idealy, you would want a high gain screen for the RS1 if you were going 10ft wide like my SMX.


I've heard excellent things from Art about Darin's image in his theater with the RS1 on a Da-Lite High Power.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11504080
> 
> 
> It's also one of my favorites. I rate it as a test pattern. It's good to show the linearity of the upper range (all ranges of whites before bloom). It also shows how well the Moome card handles the upper range. Check out the text("Planet Earth") and note how perfect white it is, and that there's no blooming at all in the text.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's 16:9, with the camera being close to the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's good so far. We're far enough ahead of things for any real concerns before the meet date. We plan to all all things in place near the end of the month. Right now we're curing tubes and finishing the setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the only thing that makes sense now-a-days, especially if you want the quickest and simplest way to get the best HD. I'm really not into HTPC's anymore. And why bother when you can get 1080P in the raw - right from a box that also takes in the DVD..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, same screen. But we're hoping to darking the area around the screen and forward of the room as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure he will. And I'm also thinking it's time to put this as a thread. Maybe you and I can twist his arm when he sees this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw, I think we're safe. This is all done in a good spirit, and that they don't mind. Plus this is the kind of stuff that brings great joy and excitement to the hobby. And if not for all, I know I'm not the only one out there that simply loves this stuff.




I couldn't have said it better myself.










+1!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Ok, took some shots of Kingdom of Heaven. Hope they turned out good.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Kingdom of Heaven, Blue Ray.


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr





















Not too shabby for a soft movie..........










Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Nice cliff! I forgot i have that disc! Now i have something to compare to.



man your shadow details rock!!!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charles R* /forum/post/11492988
> 
> 
> It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).




El-cheapo dlp plus calibration by ken whitcomb=g90 killer


----------



## nashou66

Zues is trolling!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

*A Knights Tale*


----------



## Charles R




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/11504520
> 
> 
> El-cheapo dlp plus calibration by ken whitcomb=g90 killer



Ken hasn't gotten to this projector yet or it would look much better. But even Ken can only do so much based on what he has to work with







and since I'm a guest at the CRT forum please don't drag me into the mine is better than yours.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charles R* /forum/post/11505066
> 
> 
> Ken hasn't gotten to this projector yet or it would look much better. But even Ken can only do so much based on what he has to work with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and since I'm a guest at the CRT forum please don't drag me into the mine is better than yours.



Mine is better than yours.

















We need to have a few beers in the future Charles.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11500433
> 
> 
> My little addition to the screenshot war. All @ 1080p from my PS3, HDfury, and the projector is a BarcoReality 909 (no grayscale has been done yet).






Yours:











Mine:


----------



## overclkr

Yours:











Mine:











Dude, that's an 8"??????










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Mine:











Yours:











Once again, dude, that's an 8"??????











Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11502789
> 
> 
> I took those same screenshots months ago... from the Blu-Ray intro, right?
> 
> 
> G90 at 1080P from PS3 blu-ray:





G90:











Vs. G90's:











Boy did you rank it just right big dog. Look at the difference in shadow detail. It's really not that much........


How about that little friend MOOME huh?????










I have to figure out now though why you have more picture on your shot.......


CLiffy


----------



## overclkr

Mine:











Yours:











Dude, it's damn near spot on except just a different frame. Very Nice!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11505236
> 
> 
> G90:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vs. G90's:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boy did you rank it just right big dog. Look at the difference in shadow detail. It's really not that much........
> 
> 
> How about that little friend MOOME huh?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to figure out now though why you have more picture on your shot.......
> 
> 
> CLiffy



Clarence,


Isn't it SCARY how close our screenshots are? Wow. The color is literally exact!!!!!!!!


Two different camera's with the same calibrator. WOW.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Yours:











Mine:











That little burger is rockin' big dog.


Cliffy


----------



## spotmatic

Damn, I really need to calibrate BOTH my 909 and my camera. The difference in shadow detail is striking. Unfortunately I have no way to tweak the gamma from the PS3...


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11505407
> 
> 
> Damn, I really need to calibrate BOTH my 909 and my camera. The difference in shadow detail is striking. Unfortunately I have no way to tweak the gamma from the PS3...




Moome's upcoming external HDMI box will feature gamma adjustments. You should really consider that (or a C2 Pro, Radience or VP50 perhaps).


Kai


----------



## spotmatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11505280
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> Isn't it SCARY how close our screenshots are? Wow. The color is literally exact!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Two different camera's with the same calibrator. WOW.



Wow indeed! But... I'm missing something in your and Clarence's screenshots, and that's sharpness. This very scene is very grainy, but I hardly see any grain in your shots (and Clarence's). I'd say that my screenshot comes much closer with regards to sharpness










Yours:











Mine:


----------



## mp20748

Look at the whiteness of the horse. One is clipping and one is not. For that extra lumens of low end increase, the upper end suffers. This is the problem that I have with gamma fixing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11505272
> 
> 
> Mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, it's damn near spot on except just a different frame. Very Nice!
> 
> 
> Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

I've added mine to the two. The grain is there on my screen, as it is in Spot's screenshot. But it's not showing so well in the image I took (below). My camera does not always focus so well, so it's missing that grain a lot more than what's on the screen. I think the grain is pause related, and would depend on the player as to how it would show up.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11505493
> 
> 
> Wow indeed! But... I'm missing something in your and Clarence's screenshots, and that's sharpness. This very scene is very grainy, but I hardly see any grain in your shots (and Clarence's). I'd say that my screenshot comes much closer with regards to sharpness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spot's:



Mine:


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11505755
> 
> 
> Look at the whiteness of the horse. One is clipping and one is not. For that extra lumens of low end increase, the upper end suffers. This is the problem that I have with gamma fixing.



That is why I love using the Lumagens Gamma controls. It is 11 pt fix from 0 IRE to 100 IRE so you can lower or increase each point another thing is if you have really good calibration equipment and alot of time you can change the IRE you want to change. so say you like your 10 IRE but it is a bit crushed at 13. you can change you 10 IRE to 13 and then bump that. It will add lumens starting at 13 and leave 10-13 alone, at least in theory, i dont have a calibrator to test this but this is hwat my calibrator explained to me the last time he was here. so i dont use the Moomes gamma control, i tired it and got exactly what you showed here. Now that would be asweet hdmi card if it had that type of control over a given IRE but then Moome would most definatly need an OSD for the user to see what he or she is adjusting. Are there any She's on this forum? hmmmm










Athanasios


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow those screen shots are amazing guys kudus all around but can you do this with your CRT??

http://haha.nu/creative/how-to-make-shadows-on-the-wall 


I didn't buy my RS1 to watch movies, secretly this is my longing. Puts down the Jameson.... then puts down the Jameson... hey it's 5 o'clock somewhere..


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11506218
> 
> 
> That is why I love using the Lumagens Gamma controls. It is 11 pt fix from 0 IRE to 100 IRE so you can lower or increase each point another thing is if you have really good calibration equipment and alot of time you can change the IRE you want to change. so say you like your 10 IRE but it is a bit crushed at 13. you can change you 10 IRE to 13 and then bump that. It will add lumens starting at 13 and leave 10-13 alone, at least in theory, i dont have a calibrator to test this but this is hwat my calibrator explained to me the last time he was here. so i dont use the Moomes gamma control, i tired it and got exactly what you showed here. Now that would be asweet hdmi card if it had that type of control over a given IRE but then Moome would most definatly need an OSD for the user to see what he or she is adjusting. Are there any She's on this forum? hmmmm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



When in the 11 point calibration mode which do you change that effects gamma, is it IRE? I do not see anything labeled gamma. Thanks!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11505811
> 
> 
> My camera does not always focus so well, so it's missing that grain a lot more than what's on the screen. I think the grain is pause related, and would depend on the player as to how it would show up.



Looks like y'all are using tripods for your screenshots. They all look really crisp, and with the time it takes to allow the lens to stay open during the shot, if not they would be showing lots of sway. A tripod makes sure the cam stays absolutely stock stable for the whole set of seconds the shutter is open.


You can get an even better shot by using the timer, so that your hands don't affect the cam at all during the shot, which will happen 10 seconds after you have removed your hands from touching it any further.


Of course the bigger the lens, the more the light gathering capacity of your cam. One with a 10x or 12x zoom capacity will have a very wide lens and as such very high light gathering capacity, and its shutter will need to stay open a far shorter length of time than a cam with a tiny lens, which would have to stay open several seconds on many of the darker screenshots.


The 6 year old screenshot on the front cover of my website - more visible by clicking the thumbnail version, inside in the Screenshots section - was done with a 35mm film camera on tripod at 6' on my 65" Panny RPTV. It's not the best in the world for colorations for various reasons I won't go into here, but it showed the crispness very nicely.


The 35mm was a Canon Photura, and even with a wide lens and strong telephoto capacity, the shutter still stayed open for several seconds on that shot. A tripod was an absolute must, as was its 10 second timer.


Of course from looking at your screenshots here, you guys know all this already!



Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/11506722
> 
> 
> When in the 11 point calibration mode which do you change that effects gamma, is it IRE? I do not see anything labeled gamma. Thanks!!



The Lumens, at work so i cant look but i think it say's lumens or luma something like that.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11506701
> 
> 
> Wow those screen shots are amazing guys kudus all around but can you do this with your CRT??
> 
> http://haha.nu/creative/how-to-make-shadows-on-the-wall
> 
> 
> I didn't buy my RS1 to watch movies, secretly this is my longing. Puts down the Jameson.... then puts down the Jameson... hey it's 5 o'clock somewhere..



LOL! Dude you crack me up!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11505755
> 
> 
> Look at the whiteness of the horse. One is clipping and one is not. For that extra lumens of low end increase, the upper end suffers. This is the problem that I have with gamma fixing.



Yeah, my camera does not have a manual shutter mode so I'm stuck with a fixed exposure. This makes my whites clip sometimes.


Luckily, you've seen it in person and know that's not the case.










This is my favorite from your last round:











Nice detail!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## Curt Palme

I have no need to post screen shots, my projector isn't an extension of my already abnormally large penis..










Today I set up my Lumagen, my HD DVD, HDFury. I might even try to stack the second 9500 Ultra sitting on the floor.


Then you'll all be owned.... bitches!










(well except for Cliff, he already owns all of us.)


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11506701
> 
> 
> Wow those screen shots are amazing guys kudus all around but can you do this with your CRT??
> 
> http://haha.nu/creative/how-to-make-shadows-on-the-wall
> 
> 
> I didn't buy my RS1 to watch movies, secretly this is my longing. Puts down the Jameson.... then puts down the Jameson... hey it's 5 o'clock somewhere..



The fun thing is with a digital you can still do those shadow puppets during full fades to black. Really adds to the fun I think.










Art


----------



## Curt Palme

Well it sure makes for fun times during the down times when the bulb burns out...




... ummmm wait a sec, no, that's not quite right..


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I'll have plenty of bulbs on the shelf waiting... bulbs are like ink cartridges or tone cartridges to me, or bullets to Cliff. You don't buy the gun to shoot things and then ***** about how much the bullets cost.


Shadow puppets have a very high entrainment value when you so blitz you can't find the remote. I'm still trying to get that Michigan J frog shadow puppet down.. "Hello my baby, hello my honey...."


----------



## 2ndAnode

*Here are some screen shots from an overly ambitious 7" CRT projector projecting onto a very large screen.*








_-Projector: DWIN HD-700 "7" CRT

-Processor: TranScanner II

-Screen: 133" Pearlbright 16:9

-Source: Toshiba SD-5700 DVD player(standard definition)

-Camera: Three year old 2 megapixel


-Handicaps: 7" on 133" screen, weak green tube (red and blue output reduced to compensate) and an older 2 megapixel camera that needs more light than most modern cameras to faithfully capture images._


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11507018
> 
> 
> Yeah, my camera does not have a manual shutter mode so I'm stuck with a fixed exposure. This makes my whites clip sometimes.
> 
> 
> Luckily, you've seen it in person and know that's not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Ok, you're right. I don't recall seeing that peaking in the whites. Not sure, but it seems that Casino Royal is a bit hotter than most other movies. It's not one of my best. I just can't seem to get good detail from it.



here's a good one to show both dynamics and detail..


----------



## mp20748

A few changes later:


----------



## mp20748

More..


----------



## mp20748

More... but now with a different (HP) camera..


----------



## nashou66

Mike just curious what you have your contrast and brightness set to? These look awsome! i need a set of your cards!!!!!! I hope i can get them soon very soon !










Athanasios


----------



## Gino AUS

MP, the more I stare at your shots, the more impressed I am. They really show how well your projector resolves 1080p, the pastel colours, the level of detail, the intrascene contrast, and sometimes you're able to capture a depth and 3-dimensionality that I really enjoy.


Cliff, as always, you suck! Your pictures have a lot more punch and in your face intensity.


I'd love to join in your little war, but I want to save it until I get the new LUGs and yokes installed.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11513214
> 
> 
> MP, the more I stare at your shots, the more impressed I am. They really show how well your projector resolves 1080p, the pastel colours, the level of detail, the intrascene contrast, and sometimes you're able to capture a depth and 3-dimensionality that I really enjoy.
> 
> 
> Cliff, as always, you suck! Your pictures have a lot more punch and in your face intensity.
> 
> 
> I'd love to join in your little war, but I want to save it until I get the new LUGs and yokes installed.



I don't think you even need to bother after your last screenshots. Dude, I wish so bad that I could come out and hang with you guys and see your setup. I have no doubt that it's mind blowing.

















Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

People might have passed this up, but isn't it amazing that this picture is a 8" AIR COUPLED Marquee at 1080P/72hz??????











My stack for comparison. Absolutey unreal what Mike has done with the Quee and mine is only 1080P/60. I wouldn't even bother with 72hz on my stack.











Cliff


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11505493
> 
> 
> Wow indeed! But... I'm missing something in your and Clarence's screenshots, and that's sharpness. This very scene is very grainy, but I hardly see any grain in your shots (and Clarence's). I'd say that my screenshot comes much closer with regards to sharpness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine:



Your not just kidding it looks way sharper than the G90's at least to my eyes. This is very surprising to me I would not have expected such a big difference in sharpness between the 909 and the G90. I just never fail to learn something new everytime I visit this forum.


Your gray scale is crying out for more red and less blue though. Get that fixed Spotmatic and you will have by far the longest penis here IMO.


----------



## Gino AUS

I will bother, cos it can only get better







Going completely digital in the signal from source to vp to dvx to projector will really be something too.


I've also learnt a thing or two with my screenshots so that the camera can take in more detail. The difficulty I was having before was I was trying to capture a 13' wide picture, and to do this you really need to stand back, and if you're trying to take a picture from 18' away you're going to lose the detail and sharpness a little. I've got a shorter focal length lens now.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11513281
> 
> 
> Your not just kidding it looks way sharper than the G90's at least to my eyes. This is very surprising to me I would not have expected such a big difference in sharpness between the 909 and the G90. I just never fail to learn something new everytime I visit this forum.
> 
> 
> Your gray scale is crying out for more red and less blue though. Get that fixed and you will have by far the longest penis here IMO.



Hehe, remember my friend, these are screenshots.










Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11513281
> 
> 
> Your not just kidding it looks way sharper than the G90's at least to my eyes. This is very surprising to me I would not have expected such a big difference in sharpness between the 909 and the G90.



The problem is stacking anything will result in reduced sharpness. Perhaps compare Clarence's single G90 to the 909.... or compare to a blend


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11513291
> 
> 
> I will bother, cos it can only get better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going completely digital in the signal from source to vp to dvx to projector will really be something too.
> 
> 
> I've also learnt a thing or two with my screenshots so that the camera can take in more detail. The difficulty I was having before was I was trying to capture a 13' wide picture, and to do this you really need to stand back, and if you're trying to take a picture from 18' away you're going to lose the detail and sharpness a little. I've got a shorter focal length lens now.



Yes I agree big time. My camera is not very sharp at all. It does very well though capturing very dark scenes and light as well.


You guys have taken CRT literally as far as it can go. I am stunned at your ability as well in practice. Just awesome.


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11513096
> 
> 
> Mike just curious what you have your contrast and brightness set to?
> 
> Athanasios



That very last batch the contrast was increased from 50 to 55. The brightness stayed at 50.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11513281
> 
> 
> Your not just kidding it looks way sharper than the G90's at least to my eyes. This is very surprising to me I would not have expected such a big difference in sharpness between the 909 and the G90. I just never fail to learn something new everytime I visit this forum.



No, get that 909 back out here. The clip of Drew is not a good reference for sharpness. Those G90's has done very well with some very challenging shots so far, now it's time to really see that 909 in action...


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11514599
> 
> 
> That very last batch the contrast was increased from 50 to 55. The brightness stayed at 50.



I forgot to ask screen size. Just want to compare.


Athanasios


----------



## Clarence

A screenshot from this weekend's kickoff of the 2007-08 College Football season...


Auburn 23 - Kansas State 13.











Look for me and Pete at next week's game!

ESPN2HD, S Florida vs Auburn, Sep 8, 9pm EST:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/previe...02&confId=null


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ugh glad I missed the Notre Dame game ouch..


----------



## overclkr

Uh, yeah, looks like an ass whoopin' was given.........


Cliff


----------



## spotmatic

Some random screenshots from Samsung's 'Beauty of Nature' demo on my BarcoReality 909 (this time shot with Rielplayer's Eos 400D Digital 10,1MP dSLR):


----------



## NateTTU

Man, you guys are making me incredibly jealous. Should I just give in and buy a 9'' or is there anyway my XG LC can be setup to look half as good?!?!?!

Seriously, I am looking at getting either a pro to set this thing up or upgrading to a 9''.


----------



## spotmatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NateTTU* /forum/post/11518071
> 
> 
> Man, you guys are making me incredibly jealous. Should I just give in and buy a 9'' or is there anyway my XG LC can be setup to look half as good?!?!?!
> 
> Seriously, I am looking at getting either a pro to set this thing up or upgrading to a 9''.



A XG LC is good, a well setup XG LC is awesome. Please don't get lured into the 9" trap! Just try to find a pro willing to set your projector up...


----------



## PeriSoft

Is there some trick to perceiving sharpness differences between 1920-pixel sources with 600-pixel screenshots that I'm not aware of?


----------



## Rielplayer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11518016
> 
> 
> Some random screenshots from Samsung's 'Beauty of Nature' demo on my BarcoReality 909 (this time shot with Rielplayer's Eos 400D Digital 10,1MP dSLR):



you're welcome


----------



## dropzone7

Wow! You guys really have some nice looking displays. I certainly can't compete with the likes of G90's or modded Marquee's but thought I would throw one in anyway. This is an XG-110 (non LC) that I am still setting up and learning on. The screen is 61"H x 109" wide Wilsonart Designer White formica.


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/11518270
> 
> 
> Is there some trick to perceiving sharpness differences between 1920-pixel sources with 600-pixel screenshots that I'm not aware of?



The resolution of the source does not have to be equal to the screenshot in order to be useful, especially if test patterns are used. But the projected images themselves do have to be with the same equivalent source (which they probably are) and with the same camera procedures (which they probably are not). Look at post #156 above and see a big difference in clarity even though both shots were done close to 600 pixels.


Screenshots aren't perfect but they still give a good idea of projector strengths and weekness IMO. And its about the only tool we have on an internet forum.


----------



## nuttall_chris

Ok, here are my shots done with a Marquee 8500 with HD144 lenses.


All shots are at 1080p


Chris.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11518992
> 
> 
> Look at post #156 above and see a big difference in clarity even though both shots were done close to 600 pixels.



Ok, let's go over this one more time.


In order to determine sharpness, you'll first need a very clean source or pattern. In the case with the below patterns that for some strange reason keeps popping up as a reference for sharpness, I'd just like to point out a few things about that pattern that would not allow it to be a reference.


First, look at that huge level of edge enhancement. Then also note the distortion in her face.


These three problems prohibit that pattern from being a good clip for sharpness.

*Sharpness can ONLY be determined when using a good and clean source*.

*Sharpness can never be associated with edge enhancement*.

*And where there's distortion, it's always a bad reference for sharpness*..


Now, for a better comparison use one of the other posted images from the 909 to compare to the many posted and sharp images from the G90 - and when I've done that, I'm still seeing the G90 to be much sharper. Not only is it sharper, it's actually pulling out a great level of background detail (resolution), which is a great accomplishment for a stack.


1920x1080P should always play out on the screen with clarity in both foreground and background. And it should be done without showing ANY artifacts of distortion.



G90










909







[/quote]


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11519939
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go over this one more time.
> 
> 
> In order to determine sharpness, you'll first need a very clean source or pattern. In the case with the below patterns that for some strange reason keeps popping up as a reference for sharpness, I'd just like to point out a few things about that pattern that would not allow it to be a reference.
> 
> 
> First, look at that huge level of edge enhancement. Then also note the distortion in her face.
> 
> 
> These three problems prohibit that pattern from being a good clip for sharpness.
> 
> *Sharpness can ONLY be determined when using a good and clean source*.
> 
> *Sharpness can never be associated with edge enhancement*.
> 
> *And where there's distortion, it's always a bad reference for sharpness*..
> 
> 
> Now, for a better comparison use one of the other posted images from the 909 to compare to the many posted and sharp images from the G90 - and when I've done that, I'm still seeing the G90 to be much sharper. Not only is it sharper, it's actually pulling out a great level of background detail (resolution), which is a great accomplishment for a stack.
> 
> 
> 1920x1080P should always play out on the screen with clarity in both foreground and background. And it should be done without showing ANY artifacts of distortion.



Ok. So how come I can see facial details in the bottom screenshot that I can not see in the top screenshot? I'm talking about her freckles which are completly crushed out in the top screenshot. Is that what you say is edge enhancement?


It looks like part of Drew Barrrymore to me. BTW what movie is this from anyway?


I honestly like the clarity I see in the bottom screenshot a lot better. And I do not have an ax to grind here its just the way I see it.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11520203
> 
> 
> Ok. So how come I can see facial details in the bottom screenshot that I can not see in the top screenshot?



what you're seeing is distortion. It appears as facial detail, but it's not. And simply because of the EE being clearly shown on her face, that within itself indicates a distorted image.


Now, If you pay close attention to the other areas of the image, you'll also see that same distortion everywhere else in the image. It's not just on her face.




> Quote:
> I'm talking about her freckles which are completly crushed out in the top screenshot. Is that what you say is edge enhancement?



For as dark as the image is, why would you think you're actually seeing freckles?




> Quote:
> It looks like part of Drew Barrrymore to me. BTW what movie is this from anyway?
> 
> 
> I honestly like the clarity I see in the bottom screenshot a lot better. And I do not have an ax to grind here its just the way I see it.



OK, let's skip that image. Let's do that because it has a few issues that would not make it good for sharpness test. What say, we chose another image from the 909, and maybe Cliff can also post the same image later. And then we'll be able to see the clarity you mention. If in fact, it's in the Drew image, it should also be present in this image as well:


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike Parker's Marquee 8500:



I'm out of town, but I happened to already have a similar screenshot on my server... zoomed in a little later in the scene, so I missed whatever the blue background was... but close enough for comparison:


Clarence's single G90, PS3 blu-ray 1080P:










I think the differences are 95% due to the camera settings, only 5% due to the projector setup.


But to me, it's fun to look at the differences. Mike's has more detail in the pores of her nose and the wrinkles under her nostril. More detail in her eyebrows and eyelashes. But my monitor also shows clipping and glare on the sheen of her forehead in Mike's screenshot. So even though it's darker, clipped whites usually indicate overexposure (or an inaccurate white balance on the camera).


My picture is overall lighter, with a smoother look to her skintone. But more shadow detail in the hair to the extreme left.


----------



## mp20748

oops, that's actually the screenshot from the 909 that I copied and posted. I posted it with the intent of using it instead of the Drew Image for a G90 comparison. I was hoping that Cliff would post the same image from the stack.


It's not from my 8500... I'll take one in a few and post back.


Spot's 909










My 8500
 


Clarence's G90


----------



## mp20748

That 909 shows up much better with that clip. Though they are all different, In some ways, it's better than my 8500 and the G90. I'm not surprised. part of the video has my thumb print on it..










Anyway, that image of Drew distorts (looks like freckles) when paused on my setup. Plus it has EE. So with the other image, we were able to better prove a point..


----------



## mp20748

909










8500
 



909










8500
 



909










8500
 



909










8500
 



909







[/quote]


8500


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11520434
> 
> 
> what you're seeing is distortion. It appears as facial detail, but it's not. And simply because of the EE being clearly shown on her face, that within itself indicates a distorted image.
> 
> 
> Now, If you pay close attention to the other areas of the image, you'll also see that same distortion everywhere else in the image. It's not just on her face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For as dark as the image is, why would you think you're actually seeing freckles?



No doubt you are right but I would have sworn they were freckles only on her face. I just do not see those dark spots on any other parts of the picture. I quess the film grain Spotmatic mentioned must also be due in part to this distortion as well. Still, it is very interesting to me that one projector picks this up so much better than the other.


This could just be an optical illusion on my part and it would be very interesting to see an original frame. But I don't even know where this movie frame came from. Was it one of the "Charlies Angels" film?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11522922
> 
> 
> Still, it is very interesting to me that one projector picks this up so much better than the other.



No, it's not that his projector is picking it up better, it more likely the results from his player in the "PAUSE" mode. Some will have a cleaner pause than others. And that's why we've been trying to find ways to do frame freeze.


If you really want to show how well the 909 resolves, take some shots of images with a lot of background detail..


When getting into 1920x1080P, you'll want to show detail. And you'll want to show that same detail with good intrascene contrast (illumination in darker areas). because that's what 1080P HD is really all about.


Here's another shot of Drew from my 8500 using my HP camera:
 



Spots:







[/quote]


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> No, it's not that his projector is picking it up better, it more likely the results from his player in the "PAUSE" mode. Some will have a cleaner pause than others. And that's why we've been trying to find ways to do frame freeze.



If useing a lumagen scaler you can use the scalers freeze frame sequence but it takes a while and you might miss the scene so you kinda have to plan in advance. The remote sequence is Menu/0/9/0/0.I tried it and it seams cleaner than my LG's which i think isnt that great because my actual screen looks sharper than the my screen shots.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11520203
> 
> 
> Ok. So how come I can see facial details in the bottom screenshot that I can not see in the top screenshot? I'm talking about her freckles which are completly crushed out in the top screenshot. Is that what you say is edge enhancement?
> 
> 
> It looks like part of Drew Barrrymore to me. BTW what movie is this from anyway?
> 
> 
> I honestly like the clarity I see in the bottom screenshot a lot better. And I do not have an ax to grind here its just the way I see it.



Actually, what you see in that screenshot is my camera in night mode. I get the best exposures in night mode so my color tends to "clip", hence the loss of detail.


If you saw my system in person, well, things would be much different.


If a stack is dialed in perfectly, the only loss of resolution that you will get at 1080P is scanlines. Detail remains.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11522209
> 
> 
> oops, that's actually the screenshot from the 909 that I copied and posted. I posted it with the intent of using it instead of the Drew Image for a G90 comparison. I was hoping that Cliff would post the same image from the stack.
> 
> 
> It's not from my 8500... I'll take one in a few and post back.
> 
> 
> Spot's 909
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 8500
> 
> 
> 
> Clarence's G90



Maybe tomorrow night, I'll grab a shot.


Tonight though, I'm up to the bedroom to cuddle with the wife.










Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11523444
> 
> 
> Maybe tomorrow night, I'll grab a shot.
> 
> 
> Tonight though, I'm up to the bedroom to cuddle with the wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I hear ya big dog! I think Cliffy has the right idea.


----------



## spotmatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11522662
> 
> 
> That 909 shows up much better with that clip. Though they are all different, In some ways, it's better than my 8500 and the G90. I'm not surprised. part of the video has my thumb print on it..



That's right, my 909 is fitted with a Mike Parker modded RGB inputboard


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gino AUS

Simply amazing Mike! Shots like those really make me glad I've stuck with CRT


----------



## mp20748

More...


----------



## overclkr

Very Nice Mike.


Just wanted to comment on that 909. I think it looks f'ing great. If the screenshots are representative of the actual picture, then some greyscale, and some more gamma, and walla.










G90 Stack. Just turned on. Not even warmed up yet.










Round One:


----------



## overclkr





































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Ok, round two. I'm shifting off of Spiderman for a moment.


Want Full Bandwith BD.










































































Cliff


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr






























Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Nice screen shots.. makes me want to but an RS2







haha...


----------



## Gino AUS

Well done MP! This is my favourite shot so far:











You've changed something haven't you







It's amazing how you've managed to capture the textures, the depth of field, and the background details. Look at those natural pastel colours, the level of blacks between the foliage. Things are so crisp and clean, I can see several layers from foreground to background... that's the 3dimensionality that I love when I watch at home. Keep 'em coming!


----------



## RVonse

Here is the best I can do, I don't have a tri-pod and pete (Z-photo) could really teach me a thing or two. Also my first attempt at imageshack. But here I go anyway.

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse 


 

By RVonse 

 

By RVonse


----------



## overclkr

I like this screenshot:


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11546106
> 
> 
> Here is the best I can do, I don't have a tri-pod and pete (Z-photo) could really teach me a thing or two. Also my first attempt at imageshack. But here I go anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -edit:Ooops....Maybe someone can tell me what I did wrong to get these to show up the way they should have.



They look really good. Do them over, but the next time, go into imageshack and paste from "Hotlink for Forums"


Good Job!!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11545447
> 
> 
> You've changed something haven't you



Yep..



























More..


----------



## overclkr

Yummy. That looks awesome Mike!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

One more thing BTW, I don't think it's even worth it to bother with that shot from the Spidey demo. It's a very soft clip in my opinion.


BTW, I set up Art's G90 at 7ft wide tonight on my Da-lite pulldown screen 1.0 gain with Arli. OH MY GOD.


My jaw was on the floor. It is definitely sharper than mine at 10ft wide.


Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11546511
> 
> 
> BTW, I set up Art's G90 at 7ft wide tonight on my Da-lite pulldown screen 1.0 gain with Arli. OH MY GOD.
> 
> 
> My jaw was on the floor. It is definitely sharper than mine at 10ft wide.



screenshots!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11546935
> 
> 
> screenshots!



LOL. I was thinking the same thing, but we put it away already. My wife has company upstairs and I didn't want to have that thing in the middle of my computer floor.










Don't worry though, you'll get screenshots soon enough.


They will be on a 8ft wide Silverstar.
























Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

More..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11546297
> 
> 
> They look really good. Do them over, but the next time, go into imageshack and paste from "Hotlink for Forums"
> 
> 
> Good Job!!!



Thanks for your help Mike. Thanks to your help I finally figured it out.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11546106
> 
> 
> Here is the best I can do, I don't have a tri-pod and pete (Z-photo) could really teach me a thing or two. Also my first attempt at imageshack. But here I go anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By RVonse




Sweet. Shows off the size of the screen nicely. Shame everyone seems to prefer the super close up shots.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/11548358
> 
> 
> Sweet. Shows off the size of the screen nicely. Shame everyone seems to prefer the super close up shots.



Well actually, it gives a rough idea but it could be an illusion. It depends on perspective and focal length of the camera lens. The best type to show off size are the Clarence style shots.


----------



## Zues

Thats a super cool set up gino.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11547254
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help Mike. Thanks to your help I finally figured it out.



OK, I see you went back and made the changes to the post. Now if you could re-post them, but this time select a higher size (800x600).


The images are excellent. Note the subtle hues in the tomatoes..


----------



## nookuwn









, didn't know I live in Raccoon City! thats my High School. There's quite a few filming throughout my years there.

Are these CRT projector known for their black levels as well?, grr, they make my sanyo Z4 dark scenes looks like crap. And I like dark movies, Lords of the Rings and such.

I like to see some High Rez PICs plz







.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11535865


----------



## nashou66

This is from a Panasonic RP-91 SDI modded by Gary.

























































Now a couple Blu ray





















Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

Athanasios, very nice one! The one with you in the Star Wars corridor looks as if you were just resting on that corridor!


----------



## nashou66

Yeah I saw that after i posted it! cool huh? Lets see some of your shots . I might be comming to europe this winter if time permits and you dont mind maybe i'll shoot over and check out your blend. I want to do mine by next winter 2008.


Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

I will post some shots when I finish re-setting up my blend. I just installed the frankenyokes II/II+ in one Ultra so I need to do the other one.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/11553327
> 
> 
> I will post some shots when I finish re-setting up my blend. I just installed the frankenyokes II/II+ in one Ultra so I need to do the other one.



Yeah i'm trying to find some yokes that will work. Cant wait till i see your pics!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11553956
> 
> 
> Yeah i'm trying to find some yokes that will work. Cant wait till i see your pics!
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Very nice shots!


Cliff


----------



## CMRA

Cliff and company, I must say those are some fine sceenies. But...here's some real competition, from 'bulbland'. Now your'e batting against the pros.

http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP%20Projectors.htm


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CMRA* /forum/post/11554624
> 
> 
> Cliff and company, I must say those are some fine sceenies. But...here's some real competition, from 'bulbland'. Now your'e batting against the pros.
> 
> http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP%20Projectors.htm



I agree that those are some most excellent screenshots. Some of the best I've seen!


Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CMRA* /forum/post/11554624
> 
> 
> Cliff and company, I must say those are some fine sceenies. But...here's some real competition, from 'bulbland'. Now your'e batting against the pros.
> 
> http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP%20Projectors.htm



Even looking at those pictures, everything just seems so sharp that it feels unatural. Also I think when you are taking screenshots of projectors with such high light output, the camera makes the blacks look better than they are. In any case, they are stunning and I won't deny that.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CMRA* /forum/post/11554624
> 
> 
> Cliff and company, I must say those are some fine sceenies. But...here's some real competition, from 'bulbland'. Now your'e batting against the pros.
> 
> http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP%20Projectors.htm



So sharp it's unrealistic...


Weak or no dynamics...


Flesh tones are not natural...


Getting better though..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11557637
> 
> 
> So sharp it's unrealistic...
> 
> 
> Weak or no dynamics...
> 
> 
> Flesh tones are not natural...
> 
> 
> Getting better though..



I actually think those shots look excellent.











Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

They have got a good boost of chroma and sharpening in post process.

Now you see why all brands are opting for wide gamut on new offerings.

Nonetheless they deceptively look good.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11557708
> 
> 
> I actually think those shots look excellent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Looks like there is red push here. I'll have to go get this disc and compare now !


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Yeah, a bit, but it still looks great.


Cliff


----------



## Sonynut

Is it just me or is there a major hotspot in the middle of that last one?


----------



## mp20748

More CRT..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11558814
> 
> 
> More CRT..




Ok, ok........ I guess I have to head BACK into the theater and take shots of tonights movie.










Be back in a bit.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nookuwn* /forum/post/11551339
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , didn't know I live in Raccoon City! thats my High School. There's quite a few filming throughout my years there.
> 
> Are these CRT projector known for their black levels as well?, grr, they make my sanyo Z4 dark scenes looks like crap. And I like dark movies, Lords of the Rings and such.
> 
> I like to see some High Rez PICs plz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



What's black level?????










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11558814
> 
> 
> More CRT..



Ah, damnit, they turned out like crap. Back to the drawing board......


Maybe tomorrow night.....










Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11557893
> 
> 
> They have got a good boost of chroma and sharpening in post process.
> 
> Now you see why all brands are opting for wide gamut on new offerings.
> 
> Nonetheless they deceptively look good.



Not only are they not there yet with the flesh tones, they're having a hard time bringing out the subtle colors (hues) of foliage and landscape. It still looks too artificial to me. And when the flesh tones look to be almost right, the upper half or top of the head is washed out.


Unlike CRT. If it has the speed, the colors are there in a very wide gamut. My lowly 8" has yet to be calibrated. but for right off the cuff images, I think it does very well with flesh tones:

*Why I love 1920x1080P on CRT*
 

 

 

 


This one is before the changes last week.
 

 

 


These shots are all from the changes (boards) on the 8500 earlier in the week. I'll calibrate it next week...


----------



## mp20748

The last from "Blood Diamond"


----------



## overclkr

Purple Rain HD DVD 1080P


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr





















Go here to start from the beginning:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11571021 















































Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob

God, she's beautiful! Where'd she go???


How can someone that gorgeous just disappear off the movie map, like she did?



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11572591
> 
> 
> God, she's beautiful! Where'd she go???
> 
> 
> How can someone that gorgeous just disappear off the movie map, like she did?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



LOL. I agree. Serious hottie.










She became a reborn christian after having some issues in her life and has stayed that way ever since.


She is still a hottie btw.










Cliff


----------



## mp20748

I have a set of FrankenYokes that was sent to me to attach the wires to. After connecting the wires it was hard to really tell the level of improvements with only my test 8500 (it's not displaying on a screen).


So being curious, the thought kept jumping in my mind to put them in my lowly 8500... n way, that would take too much time I kept telling my. But that did not last too long. It was only an hour later that I found myself removing the coils from the 8500 and putting in the Frankenyokes. I just can't leave well enough alone..


Anyway, I'm downloading a few images from the 5th Element. Being a very familiar movie, maybe the difference will show up in the screenshots. I've spent about the same amount of time on focus as I've done on the 8500 previously.


I'll post back...


----------



## mp20748

I think I was table to swap the yokes in and do a quick and dirty in about 2 hours.


The overall changes that the yokes make are noticable. And things are even different during adjustment. The only down side I'll imagine would be 2 pole rings. I think you're going to need at least 4 poles to help with centering.


*1920x1080P - 8500 w/Frankenyokes*


----------



## mp20748

*8500 w/CJ's Frankenyoke mod*


----------



## Gino AUS

Which yokes Mike? Frankenyoke MkI or MkII?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11575427
> 
> 
> Which yokes Mike? Frankenyoke MkI or MkII?



I'm told they are from the 1292.


I have almost no setup time with them. Since they're temps in my 8500, I've only done a quick focus, stig and convergence.


----------



## Gino AUS

why only temps?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11575711
> 
> 
> why only temps?



I'm simply attaching the wires and testing them. They're not mine..



I'm heading out for the day, but will dial them in tighter when I get back tonight for more shots.


So what do you think of the more punchier image, that's even shown in the screenshots?


After seeing the stacks, I had to put a set of new batteries in my magic wand.


I'll leave the kinder gentler image to the other single CRT setups. I'm putting the image in your face..


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11572718
> 
> 
> LOL. I agree. Serious hottie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She became a reborn christian after having some issues in her life and has stayed that way ever since.
> 
> 
> She is still a hottie btw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff




ARRGGHH... We've lost another hottie to THEM!


When I was in college there was this FINE blonde I spent some time with, just an incredible sweetie who cut your hair - and very nicely - with no training just because she liked you - who eventually went with the Mormons and got all her time monopolized by them from then on. That's what they do -


Having come from a Catholic background, and having been thoroughly inocculated, in my teenage years, against their influence on me and those dear to me such that they have no hold on me any longer, I now consider each of these events a casualty (and minor catastrophe!) -












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11576261
> 
> 
> I'm simply attaching the wires and testing them. They're not mine..
> 
> 
> 
> I'm heading out for the day, but will dial them in tighter when I get back tonight for more shots.
> 
> 
> So what do you think of the more punchier image, that's even shown in the screenshots?
> 
> 
> After seeing the stacks, I had to put a set of new batteries in my magic wand.
> 
> 
> I'll leave the kinder gentler image to the other single CRT setups. I'm putting the image in your face..




Those are awesome shots, Mike. The punchier-ness shows up in the screenshots well. I can only imagine what it looks like on your screen!



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11546340
> 
> 
> Yep..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More..




Mike, what movie is this?


----------



## nashou66

Any one want to loan me $ 28,000 !!









saw these on videogon!!! A matched pair of MP9,s












Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/11582048
> 
> 
> Mike, what movie is this?



King Arthur


----------



## mp20748

Too exhasted to play with the yokes further last evening. So I'll just post the last of the ones I took on Sunday.


These are from a Bruce Willis movie ("Tears of the Sun"). It's a very dark movie. I don't know much with the camera, or how to lighten it up, so here's what I got..









*1080P w/ CJ's Frankenyoke mod*


----------



## lordcloud

Mike, I love your screenshots, the images are solid, very dimensinal. They have a weight to them that is very filmlike. And the colors are not thin at all. Very nice.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/11589267
> 
> 
> Mike, I love your screenshots, the images are solid, very dimensinal. They have a weight to them that is very filmlike. And the colors are not thin at all. Very nice.




I second that emotion -



Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Yeah mike you dont need to do anything with the cam. Looks great! Man i want those boards ! I might call off my trip to greece this decmber and get the boards! lol


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Yep. Mike's Shot's have been rockin my boxers.































Tonights flavor from me:






































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11586511
> 
> 
> Too exhasted to play with the yokes further last evening. So I'll just post the last of the ones I took on Sunday.
> 
> 
> These are from a Bruce Willis movie ("Tears of the Sun"). It's a very dark movie. I don't know much with the camera, or how to lighten it up, so here's what I got..



Big dog, how you liking that HDMI chain??????































Your shot's are looking really good these days.


Looking foward to the meet. Still waiting for you to have that drink with me(and for everyone else, NO I'M NOT GAY, it's just a personal joke between Mike and I).










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

From the Blend Courteously of Clarence:





























Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## dropzone7

Nice! That first Kong shot is very cool. It looks like his chin is resting on the red status bar! Very 3D!


----------



## mp20748

Took a few more this morning before the sun popped out. These are kind of quickies, but I wanted to check out a another 03 VIM that's of a different flavor.

*Mels' Apocalypto - 1080P 8500 w/ CJ's Frankenyoke mods*


----------



## mp20748

I also took a few more from "Tears of the Sun"


You'll really need a darkened room for these:


*Bruce's Tears of the Sun - 1080P 8500 w/ CJ's Frankenyokes]
 

 

 

 

 

 

 *


----------



## mark haflich

Tim has the four pole magnets, relatively cheap I think. A set of yokes now will cost your about $1500 unless you rob someone of a 1292 who doesn't know better. Of course you will have a bunch of useless parts left over. You might score some good lenses in the package if the 1292 has the right lenses.


Cliffy. It's only a semi private joke.


----------



## stefuel

Just remember one thing before you crank that contrast. Just because it doesn't bloom, that doesn't mean that it won't wear faster. The phosphor could not care less if it's blooming or not. The more energy it recieves the faster it will show wear. Frankenyokes hummmmpfff. I won't be putting them in my projector. Oops, my bad. I already have them, factory installed







.

Me and my AmPro's. Oh wo is me...


Chip


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11604719
> 
> 
> unless you rob someone of a 1292 who doesn't know better. Of course you will have a bunch of useless parts left over. You might score some good lenses in the package if the 1292 has the right lenses.
> 
> 
> Cliffy. It's only a semi private joke.



Dude, I was just on the floor. I swear, it took me a while to get up!










Too damn funny.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/11604953
> 
> 
> Just remember one thing before you crank that contrast. Just because it doesn't bloom, that doesn't mean that it won't wear faster. The phosphor could not care less if it's blooming or not. The more energy it recieves the faster it will show wear. Frankenyokes hummmmpfff. I won't be putting them in my projector. Oops, my bad. I already have them, factory installed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Me and my AmPro's. Oh wo is me...
> 
> 
> Chip


































Nice.










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy. If you drink the stuff he drinks, it might be such a shock to your system, that it could kill you. Of course, if you add a lot of strong rum, it might be enough to offset the bad ****.


----------



## mp20748

Convergence off a bit, but that's what happens when your shots are taking before complete warm-up.


From a WW2 movie. A stab at capturing that old film look..


----------



## overclkr

Something AWESOME wen't by by today from the thread.










I understand though.










Yes, she was and still is a hottie.










Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234

Cliff and Mike,

I've been watching this thread and you guys both suck! These screen shots are great!











Damnn!


wallace


----------



## mark haflich

Wallace. You suck too.


----------



## Clarence

New download available on PS3... 1080P preview for " Resident Evil 3: Extinction "...


----------



## dropzone7

Clarence, you make me sick man! I don't have any 1080p sources. I have that Resident Evil preview on my HD DVR but I'm only doing 1080i on my XG. I have so much work to do here...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11617105
> 
> 
> Something AWESOME wen't by by today from the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, she was and still is a hottie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




I saw that! Good thing I had already scarfed the good ones down to my Pictures file!


Kinda wondered when they would catch up with that, was amazed that you got away with it here for as long as you did...


Good shots! Would love to see more of that stellar, unblinking feminine fidelity on your screen...


There's simply something to be said for viewing video larger than life, and still in 100% fidelity -












Mr Bob


PS - Still a hottie? How do we verify that?...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11621126
> 
> 
> I saw that! Good thing I had already scarfed the good ones down to my Pictures file!
> 
> 
> Kinda wondered when they would catch up with that, was amazed that you got away with it here for as long as you did...
> 
> 
> Good shots! Would love to see more of that stellar, unblinking feminine fidelity on your screen...
> 
> 
> There's simply something to be said for viewing video larger than life, and still in 100% fidelity -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob
> 
> 
> 
> PS - Still a hottie? How do we verify that?...



Large as life.










The images are still there if you know the URL.










Here she is today. I'd hit it!











Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11621756
> 
> 
> Large as life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The images are still there if you know the URL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here she is today. I'd hit it!
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



What's the URL??? You gotta tell me!











Mr Bob


PS - From IMDB?


----------



## mp20748

I forgot to add these three earlier, so here they are:

 

 

 


More later tonight...


----------



## DVD MAN

How do I add my sreeen shots?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVD MAN* /forum/post/11624134
> 
> 
> How do I add my sreeen shots?



The best way is to upload them to a photo hosting site like photobucket.com and then paste the IMG links into your posts here at AVS. There are many of these photo hosting sites but I like Photobucket and Imageshack.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVD MAN* /forum/post/11624134
> 
> 
> How do I add my sreeen shots?



Click on any one of my images above, and it will take you right into IMAGE SHACK.


----------



## DVD MAN

Thank You! Gentelmen.


Casino Royal


----------



## dropzone7

Nice! I believe Cliff has a lot of those same shots from his G90 blend a while back.


----------



## DVD MAN

The Fifth Element on Blu


----------



## Fellenz

DVD MAN,


What projector; those shot look really good.


Erik


----------



## NateTTU

Hey, I'm curious too DVD Man, thought you were going to get a pearl?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVD MAN* /forum/post/11624583
> 
> 
> The Fifth Element on Blu



Nice screenshots!


But judging from the neon green in the picture above, I'm guessing it's a Pearl.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Is it cheating if someone uses Photoshop to fix the lens distortion? Not sure if anyone has ever used these filters here before. I used them all the time when I did editing, and marketing stuff.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11625551
> 
> 
> Is it cheating if someone uses Photoshop to fix the lens distortion? Not sure if anyone has ever used these filters here before. I used them all the time when I did editing, and marketing stuff.



I guess if you disclosed what you did in photoshop, then it it's not cheating, but I prefer zero photoshopping... no color adjusting, no sharpening... just crop and resize.


----------



## wallace1234

These shots are changing my opinion about screen shots in general; these look really cool.










wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11625577
> 
> 
> I guess if you disclosed what you did in photoshop, then it it's not cheating, but I prefer zero photoshopping... no color adjusting, no sharpening... just crop and resize.



Watch your mail.










I didn't send the battery. I'm gonna just bring it when I come out.


Cliffy


----------



## lordcloud

I have a RPCRT set, and I love what I'm seeing here and I want to compare mine to you guys'. So with you all's permission, and since we're seeing some digital screenshots in here as well, I'll be posting a few of mine as well. I would also love to hear some critiques as well. The guys in the RP forum aren't anywhere near as passionate as you guys, and you have to do some searching to find a screenshot thread over there.


----------



## DVD MAN

Ok Gents,


I did not do anything to the shots. I used a 5.1 mega pix camera from fuji. I then set the camera on night mode place it on a tri pod and took the shots no manipulation at all. I have a dedicated ht room that is a black hole with complete light control.


Yes Nate I did go to the Pearl. Yes the green is bit neon however I am very happy with the overall picture. Kevin Miller From ISF who is also a friend mine spent about 12 hrs one day calibrating the color temp and trying to adjust primary and secondary colors sadly we were not able to correct the issues with the primary and secondary colors We were able to dial in a perfect D6500k and dial in perfect color decoding for 709 and 601. After some adjustments on the RCP you can tame down some of what they call candy colors and get a very acceptable picture. I have been a HT Enthusiast for over twenty years in that run I have had about 4 crt projectors and I can honestly tell you that a proper 8” and 9” LC crt will deliver the best picture. But I am ver happy with my Pearl.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11625912
> 
> 
> Watch your mail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't send the battery. I'm gonna just bring it when I come out.
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Got it yesterday! Thanks!!


I've got a couple of presents for you too when you visit.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/11626029
> 
> 
> I have a RPCRT set, and I love what I'm seeing here and I want to compare mine to you guys'. So with you all's permission, and since we're seeing some digital screenshots in her as well, I'll be posting a few of mine as well. I would also love to hear some critiques as well. The guys in the RP forum aren't anywhere near as passionate as you guys, and you have to do some searching to find a screenshot thread over ther.



Since the title doesn't say "front projection CRT screenshots", I'd say all display devices are fair game. And it wouldn't be a "war" (as titled) if there weren't any d!%!#@| screenshots, so those have been welcomed too.


Lots of good screenshots in the HDDVD and BluRay forums, too.


It's always appreciated if you briefly describe your setup... whart source (bluray, hddvd, cable, sat, dvd)? what resolution? what screen and what size? what display device? what camera? etc.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11626212
> 
> 
> Got it yesterday! Thanks!!
> 
> 
> I've got a couple of presents for you too when you visit.
> 
> 
> Since the title doesn't say "front projection CRT screenshots", I'd say all display devices are fair game. And it wouldn't be a "war" (as titled) if there weren't any d!%!#@| screenshots, so those have been welcomed too.
> 
> 
> Lots of good screenshots in the HDDVD and BluRay forums, too.
> 
> 
> It's always appreciated if you briefly describe your setup... whart source (bluray, hddvd, cable, sat, dvd)? what resolution? what screen and what size? what display device? what camera? etc.










Glad it arrived undamaged. I was worried. That thing is heavy.


Yes, everyone is more than welcome to post. Hell, it wouldn't be a screenshot war if it was just CRT!


Cliff


----------



## overclkr











































































Cliffy


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## overclkr




----------



## dropzone7

Wow! Have not seen anything from the Incredibles in a while. Great movie and great "looking" movie!


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11627337
> 
> 
> Wow! Have not seen anything from the Incredibles in a while. Great movie and great "looking" movie!






































































There ya go!


----------



## dropzone7

OMG! I almost spewed beer just now! I don't remember Mrs. Incredible having so much junk in the trunk!


----------



## overclkr

And on the Front!


----------



## dropzone7

My brother came over the other day and I showed him my little theater project. Of course his first response was "Dude! Have you watched porn on this thing?!?"


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cliff post the good shot from Purple Rain...


----------



## mp20748




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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11628395



I didn't recall that exact scene, it's at the very end of the "Multipass" segment.


The odometer is about to roll over to 10,000 on my G90's tubes...


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11628203
> 
> 
> Cliff post the good shot from Purple Rain...



You mean this one?????









































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Um. WOW.




















That is a HUGE difference.


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11628768
> 
> 
> Um. WOW.
> 
> 
> That is a HUGE difference.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Well, I'm glad you guys liked those images..










Now that we're doing comparisons again, let's make this Saturday night a comparison night. I'll have my lowly 8500 dialed in and color calibrated by then. I'm even going to remove the frankenyokes and put the stock yokes back in it.


So later today, I'll be looking forward to comparing more screenshots..










Oh, we'll also have to be mindful that the various HD players will have differences when paused. Some will have clear pause, while others will not. So be very careful of that, because the same paused scene on the Sony that I'm using may be crystal clear, but on another player, it could be distorted, much like the earlier screenshots from Spot's 909.


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## mp20748

These are some of my favorites. They'd be the best for resolution performance, to include showing the many other finer quality details in film. they are all 1920x1080P. If you have any of these that would be great.


----------



## Clarence

Mike, if you could provide the movie title and chapter, that'd be helpful. I recognize PiratesOTC, but what's the top movie?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11629630
> 
> 
> Well, I'm glad you guys liked those images..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that we're doing comparisons again, let's make this Saturday night a comparison night. I'll have my lowly 8500 dialed in and color calibrated by then. I'm even going to remove the frankenyokes and put the stock yokes back in it.
> 
> 
> So later today, I'll be looking forward to comparing more screenshots..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, we'll also have to be mindful that the various HD players will have differences when paused. Some will have clear pause, while others will not. So be very careful of that, because the same paused scene on the Sony that I'm using may be crystal clear, but on another player, it could be distorted, much like the earlier screenshots from Spot's 909.



Mike, I think if you take your shots a bit further from screen and zoom in it should take care of pincusion. I see a lot of overscan in the width.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11630602
> 
> 
> Mike, if you could provide the movie title and chapter, that'd be helpful. I recognize PiratesOTC, but what's the top movie?



That's "Blood Diamond"


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11630873
> 
> 
> Mike, I think if you take your shots a bit further from screen and zoom in it should take care of pincusion. I see a lot of overscan in the width.



I'll try that, though the pincusion problem you're seeing in the shots, are what's also on the screen.


The 8500 has never had a good setup or calibration since being on the ceiling. I've done various quick setups since having it, but nothing that would cover geometry or finer focusing.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11631167
> 
> 
> I'll try that, though the pincusion problem you're seeing in the shots, are what's also on the screen.
> 
> 
> The 8500 has never had a good setup or calibration since being on the ceiling. I've done various quick setups since having it, but nothing that would cover geometry or finer focusing.



Well you know it. I thought they were the dcam as my canon would do the same thing. Nice shots you posted here.


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11619629
> 
> 
> New download available on PS3... 1080P preview for " Resident Evil 3: Extinction "...



This is gonna be a nice transfer big dog!


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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr
















































Cliff


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## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11628754
> 
> 
> You mean this one?????
> 
> 
> 
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> Cliffy



Well that will do







I thought you would post it with black bars...


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## mp20748

Well, I did manage to get some work done on the 8500. It took awhile, because I had to wait for the sun to go down to get started.


I made a little progress so far, but another day at his would be much better. I also got to do a quick calibration using a Optical Comparator..


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## mp20748

This kicking it at 1080P on my lowly 8500..


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## mp20748

*Also see last of previous page*


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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11629630
> 
> 
> Now that we're doing comparisons again, let's make this Saturday night a comparison night. I'll have my lowly 8500 dialed in and color calibrated by then. I'm even going to remove the frankenyokes and put the stock yokes back in it.
> 
> 
> So later today, I'll be looking forward to comparing more screenshots..





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This kicking it at 1080P on my lowly 8500..



single G90:


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## wallace1234

lol, lol, lol...


It took me a minute; I'm slow.


wallace


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## imprez25

You guys with your fancy g90's and modded 8500's, you got nothing on my 1080i 1251q on a 102" BOC screen.










I was watching Casino this evening and I thought I'd take some pictures.


BTW these were taken with stock "program" settings from a 2 year old panasonic fz5 that was resting on my knee and are the first screen shots I've ever taken.


----------



## mp20748




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## Jim Parys

Question for MP,


is that a single 8500? and what size, gain and type screen are you using? Also what mods are in the machine?


thx,

Jim


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Parys* /forum/post/11638822
> 
> 
> Question for MP,
> 
> 
> is that a single 8500? and what size, gain and type screen are you using? Also what mods are in the machine?
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Jim



Yes, it's a single 8500 (air coupled) firing on a 80" wide electric draper screen (that's all I know about it, it's about 15 years old).


It's using modified 03 VIM's.


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## Jim Parys

In your opionion is a single 9500LC Ultra, new tubes, mod'ed or not able to fill a 104inch wide screen? If so I am after the black level and resolution/sharp focus and having two projectors might not meet my end purpose..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Parys* /forum/post/11640594
> 
> 
> In your opionion is a single 9500LC Ultra, new tubes, mod'ed or not able to fill a 104inch wide screen?



Not sure, but you'll only be 8" over what has been a near standard size (96") screen for a good 9" projector. There's a lot of things to be considered here, and for the best answer on something like this, it's always best to see a similar setup in person. This is not something you'll want an opinion on.



[QUOTE}If so I am after the black level and resolution/sharp focus and having two projectors might not meet my end purpose..[/quote]


You can get there with two projectors, but you'll only need two projectors for larger sized screen only.


----------



## nashou66

Jim this is on a 12 foot screen (daLite 1.2 gain) From an unmoded Marquee 8000, your 9 inch will definitley do that screen.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11553068
> 
> 
> This is from a Panasonic RP-91 SDI modded by Gary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now a couple Blu ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Sweet shot. I had a 8000 once.










Loved the Acon. Cool.


----------



## Gino AUS

Mike, this is my new favourite:


----------



## mp20748

I'm finding myself looking at landscaping and other things of nature at times, so I've been capturing some of that as well:


From "Blood Diamond"


----------



## mp20748

Tonight I will be doing the final tweak on the 8500. That's when I'll get back to the focus, and will also do a better color calibration using a colorimeter this time.


Caspian was right. I now see where I need to move the camera back some. I'll try that as well.


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## mp20748

Here's a few more.


I went after several darker images, and will post a few now. more later!


----------



## Gino AUS

Mike... those are incredible!


I haven't fired up the blend in a while as I'm between upgrades, makes me really miss CRT.


----------



## mp20748

The same but larger:


----------



## imprez25

Serenity HD-DVD @1080i










Fith-Element SD-DVD superbit edition @ 480p










300 HD-DVD @1080i


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11652060
> 
> 
> The same but larger:



Oh yeah baby. It's about time!!!!!!!!































I am beyond impressed my friend. AWESOME!


Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11652194
> 
> 
> Oh yeah baby. It's about time!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am beyond impressed my friend. AWESOME!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



You got that right. Can't get my jaw off the floor -











Try that, fixed pixel!



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL

Mike, what's your room setup? Your shots show no light spill or haloing compared to my XG.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11694735
> 
> 
> Mike, what's your room setup? Your shots show no light spill or haloing compared to my XG.



There is some light in the room, but it's more reflective light that's coming off the walls. A little comes from the entrance to the room, there I have no door or way to close the room off. So they were taking at night, when no one is on the upper level with lights on.


I painted the room, but used the wrong paint, when I was trying to paint the room without going straight flat paint. The paint that I used has too much of a sheen to it for this use.


Anyway, you're right there in Rockville. When you have time to come out, let me know and I'll let you see that lowly 8500 in action. But until you can get by, here's a few things that's going on with those images:


First, they are very good 1080P native transfers. And with that, the 8500 is 100% resolving that native 1080P source. When that happens properly, the image has more density. Or putting it the way someone else has said it. The image is "heavy" and that makes it even less likely to be effected by stray light.


I've said this several times and was debated every time, and that is that a really good 1080P source can be sharper than 1080I or the lower non native 1080P sources, but that depends on some things that I'm doing with the video chain.


Also, fully resolved 1080p would also be more colorful, and would produce a broader range of colors to include bringing out the very difficult various ranges of brown and good flesh tones.

the colors are there in such brilliance!!


Come on out one day and see that lowly 8500 in action. we're going to WOW Ya!


----------



## NautikaL

Thanks for the offer, Mike. Once I get done with all these college applications (I'm a senior in H.S) and adjustments to my theater room (read below), I'll take you up on that!


I'm actually going to replace my screen with Wilsonart per Clarence's recommendations and see if that helps (having other issues with the torus as well). Does it make sense that the torus is more susceptible to light spill due to the higher gain?


And that jist about the density of 1080p makes a lot of sense... don't know who could debate that with those screenshots you have!


Hopefully I shall have some screenshots to add in a month once I get things calibrated







.


----------



## Robert A. Hill

I really like the detail in these screenshots. They look almost as good as the actual movies on my unmodified Ampro 3600. Really guys, how can I (without a 1080p capable PJ) tell from these low resolution shots are any better than my normal 720p movies? Would they look better with a 1080p pj?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert A. Hill* /forum/post/11701615
> 
> 
> I really like the detail in these screenshots. They look almost as good as the actual movies on my unmodified Ampro 3600. Really guys, how can I (without a 1080p capable PJ) tell from these low resolution shots are any better than my normal 720p movies?



Easy, get a camera and do the same. Post your images here, and you'll see what it takes to get that same detail in the screenshots.


The shots are not low resolution. they are actually very high resolution shots. Those same high resolution shots are then "resized" to fit your monitor. In that process you'll not going to loose much, because you'll not projecting that resized image on a large screen.


When taking the screenshots, we're really capturing what were projecting on a large screen and trying to reproduce that. So get out your camera and fire away. Then you're see what's going on here. But before you start, let me inform you how difficult it's going to be to recreate what you see on the screen at 1080I into a solid screenshot. It'll be much better with 720P, but you won't get the same detail that you'll see with 1080I.


For instance, post a screenshot of some of the similar images shown here that has a lot of good background detail. And see what happens to that detail when it's in the screenshot form.


No special camera skills are required, nor is a special camera required. Almost any of the later digital cameras should do well. Place the camera to the screen on a tri-pod. Set everything to AUTO. Turn off the flash, and then fire away.


BTW, the screenshots are not a tell all. They just allow us to reveal some interesting things from the camera lens. In some of those images that we capture, at times we're able to show some really neat and difficult to capture things that we saw on the screen. The better the projected image, the better it is to reproduce what we saw. And trust me, we're seeing much better in person.




> Quote:
> Would they look better with a 1080p pj?



1080P is better. But it's not easy to do on CRT. And doing 1080P in screenshots is the real challenge, because it's very difficult to recreate whatever sharpness and detail you're seeing on the screen.


This thread is a fun thread. It's not really saying which projector is producing the best image. We can't do that with screenshots. We can only show some things to the trained eye, that would be otherwise difficult to capture with a camera.


Now if you really want to see something blow away that Ampro. Come check out either my 8500 or Cliff's stack. I'm firing on a small screen, so that makes things much easier, but wait till you see the image that Cliff puts on a larger screen..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert A. Hill* /forum/post/11701615
> 
> 
> Would they look better with a 1080p pj?



Below is an easy one for you If you have the 5th Element.


Capture this same scene at either 1080I or 720P. And pay close attention to the things in the background between their two heads. There's a woman there also...


----------



## mp20748

Here's another. Post this, and I'll show you what to compare.


----------



## mp20748

Now, we'll show some screenshots posted on this same thread from a Ruby. And we'll also post two from my 8500 after I finished the setup. Both are 1080P. Two are from my 8500 and the other two are from DVD MAN's Ruby. It's indicated that the Ruby has had a 12 hour calibration.


My 8500 is finished setup, but with only an Optical Comparator color balance.


*My 8500 @ 1080P*
 

*DVD MAN's Ruby @ 1080P*
 



two more..


*My 8500 @ 1080P*
 

*DVD Man's Ruby @1080P*


----------



## Robert A. Hill

MP, Thanks for the explanation. I use my PJ as my monitor at home on a 84" screen. That is why I was trying to understand what I should be looking for in these photos. I can see that taking an accurate photo of the detail in a high-rez scene is difficult and can show major flaws with a sub-par setup. I just could not see how my lowly Ampro could do justice to a scene from your super-8500 or the excellent 9" PJs. I can only imagine that the original displayed images were awesome.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11702288
> 
> 
> Below is an easy one for you If you have the 5th Element.
> 
> 
> Capture this same scene at either 1080I or 720P. And pay close attention to the things in the background between their two heads. There's a woman there also...
> 
> 
> MP 8500 @ 1080P:



G90:










I like that dark, scruffy Bruce Willis shot above... I'll have to try to find that scene.


----------



## nashou66

Mike your shots are Awesome But i have to say Clarence's reds are more true to color. Yours are a little on the orange side. Do you think this is where color corrected HD144/145's would help or is it that your set just needs a better color calibration.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11707523
> 
> 
> Mike your shots are Awesome But i have to say Clarence's reds are more true to color. Yours are a little on the orange side. Do you think this is where color corrected HD144/145's would help or is it that your set just needs a better color calibration.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Maybe so, but my HD-145's are color filtered. Not sure why that's not so red. It's seems to also be the same with DVD Man's Ruby (12 hour calibration):

 




I also have another shot done at the same time I took that other one. Look at here finger nail polish:


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11707523
> 
> 
> Mike your shots are Awesome But i have to say Clarence's reds are more true to color. Yours are a little on the orange side. Do you think this is where color corrected HD144/145's would help or is it that your set just needs a better color calibration.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I only really noticed this on the Fifth element shot where the objects to the left and right of their heads in Mike's shots are orange but red in Clarence's shots. The hair is a little different as well, but not as noticeable.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11707686
> 
> 
> DVD Man's Ruby (12 hour calibration):



I like that one. Bruce's skintone looks deeper than mine. But it's not over-exposed becuase the details in her shirt are showing up better. Mine may be missing some yellow depth... maybe it's the wear on my green (9800 hours on these tubes














)...


G90:










And another one (G90, 1080P, 115" wide)...


----------



## NautikaL

Jeeze 9800 hours? Were they previously driving a 50" screen or something? What do they look like?


It would explain the "too much red" though.


----------



## mp20748

Well, maybe it's time for a calibration. An optical comparator can only be so precise..


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11707851
> 
> 
> Jeeze 9800 hours? Were they previously driving a 50" screen or something? What do they look like?






















3 spare tubes on my shelf, in case I ever decide these have had enough


----------



## mark haflich

Why don't you guys stop the war and bring the troops home?


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Thermal Bandages!!! Multi Pass.... Multi Pass...


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11651973
> 
> 
> Here's a few more.
> 
> 
> I went after several darker images, and will post a few now. more later!
> 
> 
> MP 8500:



I have that movie, but it was still shrinkwrapped...


G90:


----------



## Clarence





















I should've stood next to the screen for this one...



















and my favorite...


----------



## Fred334

Very cool screen shots. Bruce Willis is one of my favorite actors.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Clarence or anyone,


I'm so amazed when I saw the number of hours on your screenshot. Does hours still move even if projector is off?


Thanks,


Neil


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/11712491
> 
> 
> I'm so amazed when I saw the number of hours on your screenshot. Does hours still move even if projector is off?



No, hours only accumulate when the projector is on. They also accumulate during PIC MUTE.


My G90 had 5K when I got it. It'll be 2 years next month. And next month I'll certainly roll it to over 10K hours.











That's 2500 hours per year. *6.8 hours per day*










A typical day consists of me turning it on to check to see what I recorded on the HD DVR... if it's "hard drive worthy", I'll export it via firewire to my HTPC. Then when my kids get home from school, they might play XBox360 or PS3 for an hour.


Every couple of weeks or so, my son will turn off the PS3 without turning off the projector... so I'll get some useless overnight hours of black screen. That doesn't bother me as much as it initially did.


After dinner we might watch a movie. And after we put our kids to bed, my wife likes to watch primetime TV in the HT because it's soundproofed, so the boys don't get out of bed when they hear the TV.


On weekends it's usually on all day, especially during football season... college games all day Saturday. NFL all day Sunday and MNF, usually with friends and neighbors. Also on Sunday, we have a home group from our church that gathers here, so we have 15-20 kids in the basement... pop some popcorn and put on a movie and they behave and stay entertained for a couple of hours.


10000 hours plus many thousands more on these tubes. Plus 3 more tubes sitting on the shelf.










That's always been one of my favorite things about CRT. If I had a d!%!#@|, I know I'd subconsciously obsess about how many hours the bulb had, wondering if it was going to blow the next time I turned it on.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> That's always been one of my favorite things about CRT. If I had a d!%!#@|, I know I'd subconsciously obsess about how many hours the bulb had, wondering if it was going to blow the next time I turned it on.



This was the deciding factor for me when I chose to get a CRT over digital.


Clarence's shots have more lower end detail than Mike's. Could be a lot of things though: greyscale, gamma, room, camera, source, and a few other factors I probably missed. For example, see the left side of the following screenshots.


Clarence's










Mike's













My favorite shot:


----------



## dropzone7

Speaking of war, did anyone watch Ken Burns' "The War" last night? First installment of 7 playing this week. Looks like it will be a good series.


----------



## ImaStar

Thanks guys for displaying Tears of the Sun. Great movie in all aspects.


----------



## overclkr

Amazing shots Clarence!!!!!!!


Cliff


----------



## GEBrown




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11713451
> 
> 
> This was the deciding factor for me when I chose to get a CRT over digital.
> 
> 
> Clarence's shots have more lower end detail than Mike's. Could be a lot of things though: greyscale, gamma, room, camera, source, and a few other factors I probably missed. For example, see the left side of the following screenshots.



Hmmm.. I even tried adjusting the contrast and brightness on my monitor, but I see nothing on the left side of those shots. I can see a tiny bit of colored detail in Bruce's collar, but nothing in the background.


What am I missing?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11713451
> 
> 
> Clarence's shots have more lower end detail than Mike's. Could be a lot of things though: greyscale, gamma, room, camera, source, and a few other factors I probably missed. For example, see the left side of the following screenshots.



I think you're noticing a subtle difference in sharpness that may be related to the differences in the cameras or the shot that was taking. The cameras will not always focus precisely on every shot. I know the Camera that I have won't.


Also, I'm not using any gamma anywhere, so I can't comment on gamma.


I'm surprised that you have not noticed the flesh tones and the purity of the flesh tones. As well, the range of colors, saturation and hues.


If you really want to check for lower end detail, it can be found in dark scenes, and non dark scenes. But the better rule for low end detail is background detail. It's the background detail that present the challenge for video stages. That's where the one pixels are mostly put to test.


Foreground is always easy. They are usually 'sharpness' test, everything as it relates to colors and hues. Detail, is usually always a background thing. And that's the nature of "High Resolution" images. HD is not only for foreground, it's supposed to bring out the background that was not really available because of lower resolutions native SD material.


The attached images are really good for detail, because it can be shown through-out the images. especially in the far backgrounds:
 

 

 


I'll post more higher detail images later tonight.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GEBrown* /forum/post/11714465
> 
> 
> Hmmm.. I even tried adjusting the contrast and brightness on my monitor, but I see nothing on the left side of those shots. I can see a tiny bit of colored detail in Bruce's collar, but nothing in the background.
> 
> 
> What am I missing?













Can you see all the distinct shades?









(grayscale image credit to dpreview.com)


----------



## dropzone7

"I'm surprised that you have not noticed the flesh tones and the purity of the flesh tones. As well, the range of colors, saturation and hues."


Mike, this is what I have been most impressed with in your images. Simply stunning.


----------



## mp20748

Concerning flesh tones, colors and hues. Check out the purity of the color saturation and hue accuracy through-out the flesh on in the two images:


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11714677
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you see all the distinct shades?
> 
> (grayscale image credit to dpreview.com)



Y and Z are a bit difficult for me to see a difference in. I can even see the difference between A and B more easily than I can the black end of the scale.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GEBrown* /forum/post/11714465
> 
> 
> Hmmm.. I even tried adjusting the contrast and brightness on my monitor, but I see nothing on the left side of those shots. I can see a tiny bit of colored detail in Bruce's collar, but nothing in the background.
> 
> 
> What am I missing?













Can you see all the distinct shades?









(grayscale image credit to dpreview.com)


Maybe the high-IRE range of your monitor will show the differences better...


Here's the negative of both screenshots...


Mike's 8500:










My G90:










I think it helps highlight the detail.


----------



## mp20748

I'll do up some DETAIL and COLOR shot tonight. Of the Blu-RAY DVD's that I have, do anyone have a preference for DVD's that I've posted so far and scenes?


I don't quite have every Blu-Ray released. So we'll have to work with what i have.


Also, can we post all images in IMAGESHACK. That way we'll be able to not only keep everything as close as possible, but there's other things about Imageshack that will keep things equal.


I'll be checking back from time to time. I have a VERY bad case of sinusitus and bronchitis, and it seems to not be getting better..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11714810
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you see all the distinct shades?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (grayscale image credit to dpreview.com)
> 
> 
> Maybe the high-IRE range of your monitor will show the differences better...
> 
> 
> I think it helps highlight the detail.



OK Clarence, they look close still. But keep in mind. You're comparing an Air Coupled 8" CRT against an 9" LC CRT. And with that, that 8500 is doing far better than I had expected. Apples to Apples on this test would be an 9" LC Marquee to your G90.


Now, since that non LC 8500 'may' not hold its own too well with the contrast ratio test. let's move onto the real test, that are not necessarily related to the LC vs AC debate.


What say, we go after those colors and detail..











Edit: after looking back over the negatives, I'm seeing a very good amount of black in my shot. That plus considering that I'm not using any gamma correction and they look that close. I may not even go LC.


Also, LC tubes assemplies do actually work out better for finer detail... nevertheless, I'm still looking forward to DETAIL shots.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11714575
> 
> 
> I'm surprised that you have not noticed the flesh tones and the purity of the flesh tones. As well, the range of colors, saturation and hues.



Mike, I was just commenting on the non-obvious more subtle differences. Yes, your flesh tones and colors are very good. Your shots have much more contrast and depth to the image as I commented a few days ago. The only negative thing I can see from your shots is you lose some lower IRE detail, but you are using an air coupled projector without any gamma adjustments, and I can't comment on how it looks in person. But other than that they look great







. I'm just being picky. After all, pickyness leads to improvements, don't they? But don't worry, we'll all witness your skill on a 9500LC in less than a month







.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11714947
> 
> 
> OK Clarence, they look close still.



I'll bring my monitor to the Blendzilla meet... I think you're going to be shocked at how different they look. I think you'll also understand why several people have asked why your screenshots have crushed blacks. That's why I was trying to demonstrate that it's possible to capture those low IRE details in a screenshot. Especially since that's what I consider a huge benefit of your mods.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But keep in mind. You're comparing an Air Coupled 8" CRT against an 9" LC CRT. And with that, that 8500 is doing far better than I had expected.



Nope. I'm comparing screenshots. Check the thread title... this is a "screenshot war"... not "G90 vs everybody else".


I've always been impressed by your effective mods. I've seen your M8500 in person... very, very, very impressive. After trying [email protected] on my G90 and getting slightly overlapping one-on one-off scanlines, I went back to [email protected] I was instantly impressed when you brought up the fully-resolved [email protected] pattern on a "mere" 8500. IMHO, your screenshots aren't capturing any of that magic. On my monitor, your screenshots are missing a LOT of low-IRE detail. And resolution... go count Bruce's whiskers in the reverse image comparison above. But I have the advantage of knowing what your projector can do first-hand.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Apples to Apples on this test would be an 9" LC Marquee to your G90.



Nope. Apples to Apples would be same screen, same camera, same photographer, same exposure settings, etc.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now, since that non LC 8500 'may' not hold its own too well with the contrast ratio test. let's move onto the real test, that are not necessarily related to the LC vs AC debate.



I don't think the differences I'm seeing should be attributed to LC vs AC. I'd guess it's:

20% due to digital camera,

20% due to photographer's technique and camera settings,

20% due to my moome gamma and calibration,

20% due to projector (8" AC vs 9" LC offset by mod vs stock and fresh tubes vs 10K hour tubes),

20% due to monitor settings.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11715272
> 
> 
> I'll bring my monitor to the Blendzilla meet... I think you're going to be shocked at how different they look. I think you'll also understand why several people have asked why your screenshots have crushed blacks. That's why I was trying to demonstrate that it's possible to capture those low IRE details in a screenshot. Especially since that's what I consider a huge benefit of your mods.



No need to bring your monitor. My room is not light controlled. I've said that many times, and it's something you've seen yourself. It's still un-finished.




> Quote:
> I've always been impressed by your effective mods. I've seen your M8500 in person... very, very, very impressive. After trying [email protected] on my G90 and getting slightly overlapping one-on one-off scanlines, I went back to [email protected] I was instantly impressed when you brought up the fully-resolved [email protected] pattern on a "mere" 8500. IMHO, your screenshots aren't capturing any of that magic. On my monitor, your screenshots are missing a LOT of low-end detail. But I have the advantage of knowing what your projector can do first-hand.



Yes, so you know it does very well with the low end. It's just that I'm at a disadvantage with the room I'm in. Not to mention the AC tubes and no gamma.




> Quote:
> Nope. Apples to Apples would be same screen, same camera, same photographer, same exposure settings, etc.



I really wish i had a light controlled room with 9" LC tubes. With that, the other things I would not have a problem with.



> Quote:
> I don't think the differences I'm seeing should be attributed to LC vs AC. I'd guess it's:
> 
> 20% due to digital camera,
> 
> 20% due to photographer's technique and camera settings,
> 
> 20% due to my moome gamma and calibration,
> 
> 20% due to projector (8" AC vs 9" LC offset by mod vs stock and fresh tubes vs 10K hour tubes),
> 
> 20% due to monitor settings.



Hey, If we can get beyond the very subtle differences you're trying to show. I still think I can hang in here with this 8500 and do well. After all, no one else has entered the war. So it wouldn't be fair to leave you on the battlefield alone..


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11715437
> 
> 
> No need to bring your monitor. My room is not light controlled. I've said that many times, and it's something you've seen yourself. It's still un-finished.
> 
> 
> Yes, so you know it does very well with the low end. It's just that I'm at a disadvantage with the room I'm in. Not to mention the AC tubes and no gamma.
> 
> 
> I really wish i had a light controlled room with 9" LC tubes. With that, the other things I would not have a problem with.
> 
> 
> Hey, If we can get beyond the very subtle differences you're trying to show. I still think I can hang in here with this 8500 and do well. After all, no one else has entered the war. So it wouldn't be fair to leave you on the battlefield alone..



I think it might be better if I bail out...


I'd merely intended to provide and receive constructive criticism on *screenshots*... not hardware or setup comparisons.


I apologize if anyone mistook my screenshot comparisons as a G90 pissing contest. (Cliff's stack clearly wins that prize.)


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11715576
> 
> 
> I think it might be better if I bail out...
> 
> 
> I'd merely intended to provide and receive constructive criticism on *screenshots*... not hardware or setup comparisons.
> 
> 
> I apologize if anyone mistook my screenshot comparisons as a G90 pissing contest. (Cliff's stack clearly wins that prize.)



Ok, I may not fully agree, but think it would be the best thing to do at this point.


I'll post the few sreenshots I have left later, and we'll put an end to the war with no one being the sole winner.


And based on the shots we all had posted, I think we can say we all came close enough to call it a draw.


----------



## overclkr

Screw both of you. I'm still posting shots damnit........


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11718244
> 
> 
> Screw both of you. I'm still posting shots damnit........



Good







. I'm learning a lot from this thread...we should continue! Let's not let our feelings get in the way







.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11718244
> 
> 
> Screw both of you. I'm still posting shots damnit........



Ditto !!!


Once i get on of my CLM fixed I'll have a stack 8xxx going. I'm going to try for a side by side it might work since my screen is 12' wide, which allows for a little more forgiveness in geometry issues compared to a smaller screen.


Athanasios


----------



## NautikaL

Guys, what blu ray players are you using? I'm thinking about getting a P1000 open box from Best Buy for ~$250. If I recall correctly, Cliff and Clarence are using PS3s? What about you Mike?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11714860
> 
> 
> I have a VERY bad case of sinusitus and bronchitis, and it seems to not be getting better..




Vitamin C, Mike. Whenever I even start to get a cold, I do up 5-6 full grams a day, and usually it never catches hold of me, as I am 6' tall and about 210, and that's perfect for my size and weight, extrapolate yours accordingly. It's good for cat allergies too. I use a combo of ascorbic acid and calcium ascorbate to balance the PH, and as a powder it goes straight in, gets absorbed by your body immediately.


You gotta space it out during the day, because it goes thru you completely, every 3 hours.


There are ways to see if you've taken too much, which I would be glad to elaborate on privately if you'd like. If those signs come up, you're not as sick as you thought - which may be immediate or may even take a day or 2 - and you can reign the dosage in a bit.


It works wonders. The Linus Pauling Institute was created around it.



Keep up the good work.


I am referring people here from my thread "Don't Dump your CRT RPTV!" and the 4 AVS threads dedicated to making sure Hitachi RPTVs look their best. I want them to know what the fixed pixel generation is usually missing, out there, and will continue to go without, in the headlong fixed pixel marketing blitz that is presently all but obliterating the CRT genre.


I know you guys have the BEST pix available, and there is a whole HUGE contingent of RPTV lovers out there who love triple-gun CRT just as much, in their own format.


I'm trying to bring them here to learn, from youse guys.











Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud

Trying to take quality pics of a RP is a seemingly impossible task. My pictures look absolutely nothing like what I see on screen. A bit frustrating it is.


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11715576
> 
> 
> I apologize if anyone mistook my screenshot comparisons as a G90 pissing contest. (Cliff's stack clearly wins that prize.)



You've done nothing to be apologizing and I for one appreciate seeing your great looking G90 screenshot contributions here!


Theres a lot of eye candy to be seen thats for sure.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/11727217
> 
> 
> You've done nothing to be apologizing and I for one appreciate seeing your great looking G90 screenshot contributions here!
> 
> 
> Theres a lot of eye candy to be seen thats for sure.



Clarence IS the screenshot KING.










I learned from the best.










Cliffy


----------



## M9500LC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11712014
> 
> 
> I have that movie, but it was still shrinkwrapped...
> 
> 
> G90:




Here's mine...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *M9500LC* /forum/post/11727510
> 
> 
> Here's mine...



SWEET.










Cliffy


P.S. I cant wait until I see shots from Art's setup.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11718257
> 
> 
> Good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm learning a lot from this thread...we should continue! Let's not let our feelings get in the way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



What war? I posted a few and nobody even took the time to say they sucked!







Some times I think I am invisible here.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11728155



You TOOL. I thought you were done posting screen shots?


Damnit. Now I have to yank out the big guns.
























Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11728084










My favorite one. Glad that you decided to post more shots!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11728915
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite one. Glad that you decided to post more shots!



Yes, that is most excellent. Here is mine.



















The one thing that I like most about both shots is the "lack" of ANSI. :^)


Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

What player is on that on Cliff?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11728862
> 
> 
> You TOOL. I thought you were done posting screen shots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



These are the ones I said earlier that I would post. Now I'm out of ammo!


----------



## spotmatic

There are so many screenshots in this topic that I don't even remember if this picture was posted here. But here you go: 1080p from the "Vertical Limit" BD Disc:


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/11730238
> 
> 
> There are so many screenshots in this topic that I don't even remember if this picture was posted here. But here you go: 1080p from the "Vertical Limit" BD Disc:



There ya go..







You're doing much better with this one. The fleshtones in this one is good, though you still need work with your color balance. The potential is truly there for a really fantastic image.


Get you a color meter. Even one of the cheap mickey-mouse ones would make things much much better. I'm using a color comparator.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11721265
> 
> 
> Vitamin C, Mike. Whenever I even start to get a cold, I do up 5-6 full grams a day, and usually it never catches hold of me, as I am 6' tall and about 210, and that's perfect for my size and weight, extrapolate yours accordingly. It's good for cat allergies too. I use a combo of ascorbic acid and calcium ascorbate to balance the PH, and as a powder it goes straight in, gets absorbed by your body immediately.
> 
> 
> You gotta space it out during the day, because it goes thru you completely, every 3 hours.
> 
> 
> There are ways to see if you've taken too much, which I would be glad to elaborate on privately if you'd like. If those signs come up, you're not as sick as you thought - which may be immediate or may even take a day or 2 - and you can reign the dosage in a bit.
> 
> 
> It works wonders. The Linus Pauling Institute was created around it.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Thanks so much for this, I'll give it a try. I'm open for anything that's not on the pharmacist list. I have few scripts (prescriptions) for allergies that are in a pill form, but they have some seriously wild side effects, that I prefer to not take them at all.


I'm super sensitive to mold. I've been that way since being exposed to high concentrations of mold (some very toxic) in my house a few years ago. From that experience, I walked away well, much to the prognosis at the medical center. They had expected me to be on steroids and other meds for ever. But that was not he case. Everything cleared up after a year, with me only having a problem with allergies. I've never had a problem in my life before the mold incidence with allergies. Now I'm super sensitive to allergies. But what's really strange, I'm only allergic to mold..










Trees, cats, dogs, fur, pollen, etc, none of that other stuff bothers me. It's only mold.


The summer hot months are the worse, because there's mold everywhere to some degree. And when it rains for days followed by hot sun and humid nights, that multiplies the mold levels. When that happens, it's best for me to stay indoors. If I go anywhere (even in some residences), where there's higher concentrations of the stuff, it causes my throat to irritate and can cause a sore throat. I don't take anything for that, because I'm not for reaching for pills for every pain. Plus it seems to go away in a day or so once I'm removed from that environment.


The problem is, at times it does not go away in a day or so. And when that happens, it usually leads to inflammation of the sinus and later followed by bronchitis. Most of the time, they will go way them selves, but when they don't. It's hell!


I keep various scripts as refills at the pharmacy. Right now after one week of waiting it out. I started the Amoxicillin on Monday. That will be followed by Flonase and Pulmicort today.


I've been using Colloidal Silver, and now something called "Wellness Shots" - which is a small spray bottle that you put 6 squirts in your mouth each day. It too has the colloidal silver in it. It works quite well, I'll have to be careful with anything, and make sure I nip this before I'll be needing the steroid shots again. My goal with this, is to avoid needing the shots again. And In the past two years, I've not had to go that far.


So thanks again for this jewel of advice. I'll give it a try. It's hell being in pain so bad that your sinuses make you have a tooth ache, and your chest stays on fire. and your sleep comes in two to three hour periods, and that goes on all day long.


Hey, considering how things were over two years ago, I'm way better off now with these things that can be solved quite easily..


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11730472
> 
> 
> 
> So thanks again for this jewel of advice. I'll give it a try. It's hell being in pain so bad that your sinuses make you have a tooth ache, and your chest stays on fire. and your sleep comes in two to three hour periods, and that goes on all day long.
> 
> 
> Hey, considering how things were over two years ago, I'm way better off now with these things that can be solved quite easily..



Damn, you got it bad, dude!


I was not allergic to anything until I spent almost a year in Colorado and then went back to Oregon, where I grew up. From then on I was allergic to a lot of the common things, which I never noticed before. Guess the Colo air was cleaner than I had even heard of.


My gf is athsmatic, and once when we visited Vegas the smoke she had to endure was so bad it caused her to eventually get a scrip from Kaiser for prednosone, which as you know can have domino effect side effects. We haven't been back to Vegas together since because of that, tho now the anti-smoking craze has finally gone farther than CA and many hotels in Vegas are taking up the banner.


There's a thing called Airborne that was created by a schoolteacher who was constantly exposed to her kids in class, and it works wonders if you catch what you have early. It's in an Alka-Seltzer type format, which fizzes up in a glass of water and tastes great. Walmart has the same thing a bit cheaper, called WalBorne.


One of its main ingredients - an entire gram of Vitamin C!


Good luck, you won't have to worry about drug interactions with these things.











Mr Bob


----------



## Paul Butler

I just love these screenshots! This thread just gets better and better.


Guys, this is such good fun!! Much appreciated










Paul


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11729139
> 
> 
> What player is on that on Cliff?



Jeff, that was actually if I'm not mistaken taken from my PS3. It was a downloaded 1080P trailer of 300.


Cliff


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11732861
> 
> 
> There's a thing called Airborne that was created by a schoolteacher who was constantly exposed to her kids in class, and it works wonders if you catch what you have early. It's in an Alka-Seltzer type format, which fizzes up in a glass of water and tastes great. Walmart has the same thing a bit cheaper, called WalBorne.
> 
> 
> One of its main ingredients - an entire gram of Vitamin C!
> 
> 
> Good luck, you won't have to worry about drug interactions with these things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



You shouldn't have more than 2 tablets per day due to its high amount of vitamin A. Also, there have been no studies to show that Airborne is effective...placebo effect anyone? Finally, Airborne is very expensive at ~75 cents per tablet. The box recommends you take airborne every 3 hours so this would lead to ~2.25$ per day.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wikipedia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However, Airborne's 5,000 IUs of vitamin A per serving has become another major health concern. The recommended safe upper limit for vitamin A is 10,000 IUs daily.[9] This amount is easily exceeded when following Airborne's directions, as it is stated on the packaging, to "repeat every three hours as necessary"


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborn...ry_supplement) 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11734331
> 
> 
> Jeff, that was actually if I'm not mistaken taken from my PS3. It was a downloaded 1080P trailer of 300.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Okay thanks. I'm just trying to gauge what everyone in the CRT world is using for blu-ray as I try to get a player myself.


----------



## Clarence

I might have to sneak back onto the battlefield. I got a new toy today... a 10.1 megapixel Canon XTi DSLR:


----------



## dropzone7

Wow!







It can't possibly be any better than your little $19 digicam!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11735641
> 
> 
> I might have to sneak back onto the battlefield. I got a new toy today... a 10.1 megapixel Canon XTi DSLR:



Nice Clarence! What lenses did you pick up? Looking forward to any tips you might learn with your dSLR.


I'd really like to post some shots too, but I don't see my current upgrade finishing for a little while yet.


----------



## dropzone7

I just watched Pan's Labyrinth on HBO HD. What a great looking movie! Not sure if that's out on HD DVD or Blu Ray yet but I would love to see some screenshots from you G90 and ultra modded Marquee owners. Even with the subtitles it was very enjoyable and contrast and colors were just incredible.


Ah, looks like it will be out soon and was recently named THX's first certified HD DVD.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/05/30/pan..._gets_thx.html


----------



## dropzone7

I just sold off my old film SLR camera last week and all of my lenses with it. You will enjoy the 300mm for zoo trips and such. I had a Quanteray which was not a lot of money but it worked great.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11738749
> 
> 
> Nice Clarence! What lenses did you pick up?



Right now I've only got a 28-80 USM from my older Canon 35mm film SLR.


I'm having fun trying to pick a couple of good USM lenses with Image Stabilization (IS)...


17-85 IS

28-135 IS

70-200 IS


Right now I'm leaning towards first getting a 28-135 IS ( link ) as a general walkabout lens.


And then I'll wait a couple of months and make mental notes every time I find myself wanting either more zoom or more width. With the 1.6x field of view crop on the digital sensor, I suspect I'll want 17-18mm wide more than 200mm or 300mm zoom.


Edit: On a whim, I just got high bid on a 75-300 USM (but non-IS), so now I definitely don't need to worry about the zoom end. Reviews ( link & amazon ) summarize it as "small, light, cheap, mediocre", so I'm not expecting much, but it'll be fun to play with.


dz7, I recorded Pan's Labyrinth, so maybe that'll be something fun and different to try screenshots with. Although I'm getting spoiled by Blu-Ray... it tends to make every compression artifact in HBO HD seem even worse in comparison.


----------



## dropzone7

dz7, I recorded Pan's Labyrinth, so maybe that'll be something fun and different to try screenshots with. Although I'm getting spoiled by Blu-Ray... it tends to make every compression artifact in HBO HD seem even worse in comparison.



Yeah, I just watched it on my plasma from a pretty conservative seating distance so I did not notice anything glaringly bad but I'm sure on the "big screen" all of that is revealed.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/11726319
> 
> 
> Trying to take quality pics of a RP is a seemingly impossible task. My pictures look absolutely nothing like what I see on screen. A bit frustrating it is.



I'm with you. I've spent weeks trying, and have given up. Tripod, ASA, white balance, nothing. So don't feel bad - it's not you.

Michael


----------



## Clarence

Wow... after 4 years of screenshot practice with my point and shoot digicams and slowly refining the best settings to use, now I know how you guys feel when you point a new camera at a screen and try to get a decent screenshot.


It's going to take a while for me to learn all of the features of this SLR. None of my "Pan's Labyrinth" screenshots came out good, but here's one just so I can track my progress as I try different settings on the XTi (I especially need to try RAW for computer-based exposure processing instead of jpeg).


----------



## mp20748

Up most of the night (sinuses) and thought I'd get back to some things. Also took a few more images:


----------



## dropzone7

Mike, do you EVER sleep?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11741839
> 
> 
> Mike, do you EVER sleep?



LOL.. yeah, I usually rest quite well. I've had a rough two weeks so far, but things are much better now with only the sinuses being a problem. That should also clear soon. So I'm expecting to have some serious down time coming up.


I missed a very important meeting on last Friday. I'm a consultant on a huge church sound and video system redesign, and it went before the board on Friday without me..


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11741877
> 
> 
> LOL.. yeah, I usually rest quite well. I've had a rough two weeks so far, but things are much better now with only the sinuses being a problem. That should also clear soon. So I'm expecting to have some serious down time coming up.
> 
> 
> I missed a very important meeting on last Friday. I'm a consultant on a huge church sound and video system, and it went before the board on Friday. And I could not be there..



Yeah, it just seems like you are posting all hours of the night and day sometimes! I feel for you with the sinus problems. This must have been an off year for me because I did not have a problem. Normally I'm almost at the point of putting a drill to my head to relieve the pressure.







Hopefully you will be through it soon and back up to par. I have been on the board at my church before also and a few years ago I had to start cutting back because I was just spending so much time there. As you probably know, with church membership it's usually 20% of the people doing 80% of the work and as long as those people keep it up then others wont get involved. As guilty as it made me feel for a while, I had to give up a few responsibilities and let others take a turn.


----------



## Fred334

Those are some great shots. I really like the space ones.


----------



## mp20748

Here's a few more from that same batch:


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by lordcloud
> 
> Trying to take quality pics of a RP is a seemingly impossible task. My pictures look absolutely nothing like what I see on screen. A bit frustrating it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you. I've spent weeks trying, and have given up. Tripod, ASA, white balance, nothing. So don't feel bad - it's not you.
> 
> Michael
Click to expand...



RP can be challenging. I found that trying to photo very much white scenes got me corners being dark, where it was not that way by eye viewing. So I decided to shoot images that were not very bright in the corners, for the cover of my website.


I do think it came out well in the end, tho, even tho my cover pic does show some white crush, which was definitely not there on the viewed image. That was on my 65" Panny RP, shot on timer from 6' away. I think the automated shutter speed made it stay open just a little too long, in averaging the light level for the shot.


You might want to check out my website, for shooting RP. There's a little blurb in there I wrote out entitled, "About the Cover", which is about how I shot the cover pic for the website. You might already know everything in there, but you can never tell when you might come across some little tidbit you might not have thought of.



These guys here are all FP guys, but they obviously have their fingers on the pulse of how to do screenshots right, eh!











Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11741877
> 
> 
> LOL.. yeah, I usually rest quite well. I've had a rough two weeks so far, but things are much better now with only the sinuses being a problem. That should also clear soon. So I'm expecting to have some serious down time coming up.




Whenever challenged, I always subject my sinuses and my entire core to elevated temps. I stand under the shower with the water hitting the bridge of my nose and my chest, and keep getting the water hotter and hotter, till I can't stand it any hotter. It's so hot that when I go back to normal temp for the rest of my body, that temp feels cool to my nose and chest.


Once I get it up there to almost intolerable heat levels, I stay there with my mouth wide open so I can still breathe, for at least another 5 minutes, usually 10.


This heats up my internal core, and really does a number on any cooties in there. They don't like the heat and love the cold, which is why we get colds when our core temps are lowered by cold weather.


A hot bath helps also, of course. But direct water heat on my sinuses for an extended period does the most good, at least for me.



Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7

This is exactly what I do and it's the only thing that helps. Well, that and some pressure points I learned about just inside the upper crest of your eye sockets. You take your thumbs and turn them inward towards your face. Curl them under the top edge of your eye sockets gently and pull upward slowly. Once you find the spot it's like you can feel the snot draining out of your head. This along with the hot shower makes you feel like a million bucks for about an hour at least.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11745765
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I do and it's the only thing that helps. Well, that and some pressure points I learned about just inside the upper crest of your eye sockets. You take your thumbs and turn them inward towards your face. Curl them under the top edge of your eye sockets gently and pull upward slowly. Once you find the spot it's like you can feel the snot draining out of your head. This along with the hot shower makes you feel like a million bucks for about an hour at least.



I'll try that next time I'm really stopped up.


It was so bad one time that I was in serious pain until I could get to a Safeway and buy something to relive that pressure, some generic thing they sold for "congestion". Worked like a charm, after the 30 minute wait.


During that 30 minutes, I just ground my teeth and waited, with my sinuses in intense pain...



Mr Bob


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11745477
> 
> 
> You might want to check out my website, for shooting RP. There's a little blurb in there I wrote out entitled, "About the Cover", which is about how I shot the cover pic for the website.
> 
> Mr Bob



You used film, which behaves much differently than digital. The big advantage is that now we can see how bad it looks sooo much faster.


----------



## Mr Bob

You got that right!











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

Yo Bob!


Yesterday I stared feeling much better, and today I'm feeling even better. I no longer have the pain in my face. the headaches are gone, but I'm still wheezing a little. So though I'm not quite there, I am getting better. I've been taking the VIT C, to include some multi's.


I have a ways to go, but I'm flipping excited that I've avoided another round of steroid shots..










I think I'll go out and treat myself to a good crab cake somewhere..


Thanks dude!


Oh, here's a link to the Wellness Shots. I have the sprayer bottle of the same thing:

http://www.wellnessshots.com/


----------



## Mr Bob

Awright!


Can't imagine what this thread woulda been like without your setup's shots on it, as part of the action. We need you up and around!











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

I'm taking everything down soon, so here's a few more:


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11754469
> 
> 
> Yo Bob!
> 
> 
> Yesterday I stared feeling much better, and today I'm feeling even better. I no longer have the pain in my face. the headaches are gone, but I'm still wheezing a little. So though I'm not quite there, I am getting better. I've been taking the VIT C, to include some multi's.
> 
> 
> I have a ways to go, but I'm flipping excited that I've avoided another round of steroid shots..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll go out and treat myself to a good crab cake somewhere..
> 
> 
> Thanks dude!
> 
> 
> Oh, here's a link to the Wellness Shots. I have the sprayer bottle of the same thing:
> 
> http://www.wellnessshots.com/



Oh oh, Mike coming back with the crabs










Chip


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/11772323
> 
> 
> Oh oh, Mike coming back with the crabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chip




LOL.. go way Chip..


----------



## mp20748

One more I forgot to post here:


----------



## stefuel

One from the lowly AmPro


----------



## mp20748

That's really good Chip. I did not know you could get something that good from an Ampro..


btw, what's an Ampro?


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11772436
> 
> 
> That's really good Chip. I did not know you could get something that good from an Ampro..
> 
> 
> btw, what's an Ampro?



And that one is pre Marquee LC's installed. I can't show you a post LC mod as I had to steal the green out of it for another projector. As soon as I can swing a new green, I'll post some screen shots of the 4600HD with all Marquee optics and raster centering mods. I may have to chain Scott to it for a while and try to drag some additional bandwidth out of it. Also, that picture is with HD10-L's. I wish I never parted with the GT17's I had.


----------



## overclkr

Uh huh. Yeah, that's right, I'm bad. I'm bad.......










Art Sonneborn King Kong and Serenity HD DVD 1080P 14ft wide 2:35 Cinemascope HT5000 3 Chip DLP:
























































































What an AWESOME day yesterday at Art's place. The bar has been risen. Final D6500 calibration produced 21 FOOT LAMBERTS on a 14ft wide Stewart 1.3 gain Cinemascope with Electronic Masking.


Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11772886
> 
> 
> What an AWESOME day yesterday at Art's place. The bar has been risen. Final D6500 calibration produced 21 FOOT LAMBERTS on a 14ft wide Stewart 1.3 gain Cinemascope with Electronic Masking.
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Ahh...so that's where Ken has been!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11772929
> 
> 
> Ahh...so that's where Ken has been!



Yes, he has been a busy man.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Since this is the top of the list, I'm doing a shameless repost.


I love these shots.


Uh huh. Yeah, that's right, I'm bad. I'm bad.......










Art Sonneborn King Kong and Serenity HD DVD 1080P 14ft wide 2:35 Cinemascope HT5000 3 Chip DLP:
























































































What an AWESOME day yesterday at Art's place. The bar has been risen. Final D6500 calibration produced 21 FOOT LAMBERTS on a 14ft wide Stewart 1.3 gain Cinemascope with Electronic Masking.


Cliffy


----------



## Blasst

I know this is the CRT forum, but I had to see what my Benq 7700 shots would look like next to your shot.


I'm sure if we had them side by side with moving video, you guys would walk all over the 7700.












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11702313
> 
> 
> Here's another. Post this, and I'll show you what to compare.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11776151
> 
> 
> I know this is the CRT forum, but I had to see what my Benq 7700 shots would look like next to your shot.
> 
> 
> I'm sure if we had them side by side with moving video, you guys would walk all over the 7700.



Looks great. Slight difference in the white paint in the lower left corner... you've got a blue push or Mike's picture has a red push. The true reference is probably in the middle.


Slight washout or clipping in his collar and the shadow under his collar... slightly overexposed?


You've captured more texture detail in the goosebumps/pores/whiskers in his neck.


Interesting how your clouds look almost transparent... I'd have to see the true reference frame to know whch is more accurate.


But for the most part, a very comparable screenshot.


----------



## overclkr

G90 Stack:











BenQ:











Cliff


----------



## mp20748

Here's a few more Blue Planet images I took this morning:


----------



## mp20748

I like these for colors and naturalness:


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11776575
> 
> 
> Looks great. Slight difference in the white paint in the lower left corner... you've got a blue push or Mike's picture has a red push. The true reference is probably in the middle.
> 
> 
> Slight washout or clipping in his collar and the shadow under his collar... slightly overexposed?
> 
> 
> You've captured more texture detail in the goosebumps/pores/whiskers in his neck.
> 
> 
> Interesting how your clouds look almost transparent... I'd have to see the true reference frame to know whch is more accurate.
> 
> 
> But for the most part, a very comparable screenshot.



Bond's shades are crisper on the BenQ, esp. at the white straight line of reflection of what's under them on the lower edge of the visible arm of the glasses. The reflection of Bond's skin thru them, in the upper part of his right eye, also shows more delineation. As does the shadow area under the visible part of Bond's face, just below the chinline.


The upper photo shows Bond's head as I think it really is, while the lower photo shows it somewhat squashed - a circle would be not a circle, if shown on the lower screen. Same for the scoop under the prop on the plane's engine. It's more oval on the upper picture, more round on the lower picture. Mike, you might want to check your vertical height - the h to w ratio is different between your pic and his, and the BenQ's is most likely more accurate, being fixed pixel. My eye tells me his is more accurate than yours, even without a circle to refer to.



A reference circle is hard to come by in HD, on pattern generators. The algorithms it takes for displaying them accurately are thru the roof according to Greg Rogers, creator of the Accupel, which is why his HDG 2000 and 3000 do not contain them, even tho the excellent patterns they do contain allow for stellar calibrations. As a calibrator, up until HD discs you had to spend serious $ to have access to circles via pattern generators, to use for H vs. V sizing and linearities in HD.


Now, with HD discs, you can find circles in movies to use. Or with a DVR, capture either ABC's or CBS's logos, to use.


Perfect circles in your HD video material allow for perfect sizing of horizontal width vs. vertical height, which have to be in perfect proportion to each other for a circle to look like a circle.


When a circle looks like a circle, only then you can trust that everything else in your video material will sustain the maximum amount of suspension of disbelief possible, in the geometry of your image structure. That's why the better patterns contain not just a master circle, but also a circle in each corner.



Be aware also that "blue push" has nothing to do with grayscale, and thus cannot accurately be used to talk about white, which is in the grayscale domain of black and white video material. It's tempting to use, and SOUNDS like it should be an accurate description of what's happening.


But the word "push" only kicks in when colors are present and are thus being decoded. As in "red push": where whenever there is color on the screen being discriminated out, there's significantly more red intensity being shown than there is green or blue color intensity, on each color involved.


Red push is the same as blue/green diminish. With a red pushed scenario, when fleshtones are being prioritized - which is the ONLY way to fly, in our endless quest for suspension of disbelief - if color is being decoded and you don't have the critical color decoding registers in your scaler, the blue isolation/filter test becomes invalid and untrustable anymore, and completely unusable. What's the point of having blue be perfect when red is overdone, making fleshtones look ruddy and sunburned, ruining your suspension of disbelief? In a red pushed scenario, the entire color intensity level has to come down till you're at accuracy in fleshtones. All the other colorations have to take a back seat.


As a result, after reworking color and possibly tint as well, the fleshtones finally come in at accurate and perhaps even breathtaking - but with red push the vivid blues and greens of a peacock feather in the same scene become wilted, and limp. Not vivid, like they are supposed to be.


It's too late once you're at the pj, in pure RGB. If present, relinearization of it has to be accomplished somewhere along the way. Luckily enough, the better scalers don't mess with the color decoding like the manufacturers of RPTVs do, and red push is not a factor. In HD passthru on a scaler, again you get whatever the mix was that the HD telecine guys designed in, which is usually completely accurate.



What you are talking about on the white of the plane is there, I can see it and I agree - but the more accurate terminology in calibration terms is that the white you are referring to is more bluish on one and more reddish on the other.



I liked using the term "push" for that purpose also until my eyes were opened by Paul Carleton, creator of Home Theater SPot.com. He used to be a video cameraman, and they would realign the color linearity of their cams each day, before each shoot for the day.


While in Seattle doing a Mit 73" back when they had the critical "push" registers in their sm, using the AVIA test patterns he showed me the coloration errors in the factory setup and demo'd how to realign them, which can be done in HD with the proper patterns as well. AVIA was the best resource for such things back then, still is, at least on regular DVD.


He used a scene from Shakespeare in Love to demo the before and after - the scene where Kit is talking with Shakespeare in the basement bar just after the announcement of the new play, the closeup on Kit's face and outfit - and my jaw just dropped when he showed me the difference between red pushed color rendition and completely linear color rendition. I had had no idea, up till that point, what "red push" was all about, and naively thought that it could be cured via color and tint, or grayscale.


NOT. The difference between accurate colorations and red pushed colorations was absolutely staggering. The doubletake left a crick in my neck...











I was a whiz at grayscale and image structure by then, and thought I knew it all! But this has nothing to do with image structure and is AFTER the grayscale has already been taken care of, to D6500K accuracy.


It was a new curve I was being thrown, and decided I'd better master it on the spot - or should I say, SPot...




Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11778826
> 
> 
> Be aware also that "blue push" has nothing to do with grayscale, and thus cannot accurately be used to talk about white, which is in the grayscale domain of black and white video material. It's tempting to use, and SOUNDS like it should be an accurate description of what's happening.
> 
> 
> What you are talking about on the white of the plane is there, I can see it and I agree - but the more accurate terminology in calibration terms is that the white you are referring to is more bluish on one and more reddish on the other.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Fine... "Bluish". Not "blue push". My apologies.


"Goosebumps" probably isn't an anatomically correct term either.










And "plane" is a geometry term, not proper aviation nomenclature.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11779113
> 
> 
> Fine... "Bluish". Not "blue push". My apologies.
> 
> 
> "Goosebumps" probably isn't an anatomically correct term either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And "plane" is a geometry term, not proper aviation nomenclature.



I stand corrected...












Mr Bob


----------



## JBLsound4645

I have Blue Planet IMAX on region 2 DVD and it looks breathtakingly bountifully wondrous. Thou I wish I had a video projector to display the image as large as possible. But for now the CRT TV monitor would have to suffice.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11778826
> 
> 
> The upper photo shows Bond's head as I think it really is, while the lower photo shows it somewhat squashed - a circle would be not a circle, if shown on the lower screen. Same for the scoop under the prop on the plane's engine. It's more oval on the upper picture, more round on the lower picture. Mike, you might want to check your vertical height - the h to w ratio is different between your pic and his, and the BenQ's is most likely more accurate, being fixed pixel. My eye tells me his is more accurate than yours, even without a circle to refer to.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Dang, that means I'm robbing myself of resolving power with the vertical squashed.


Good eye Bob. thanks.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11779476
> 
> 
> Dang, that means I'm robbing myself of resolving power with the vertical squashed.
> 
> 
> Good eye Bob. thanks.





Yeah, I think you'll get higher resolving power when corrected, because you have to squash the horizontal a little more than it is now in there, to make the h and v even. I am sure you are maxed out on your vertical, and that your height is already perfectly matching your screen height, with the proper overscan and blanking.


Which means your horizontal must be too far out there beyond the edges, and needs to be taken in, to make a circle become a circle. At which point you'll be showing more of your pic horizontally, once taken in, densilizing - is that a word? - your horizontal rez a bit once taken in.



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

Actually, I'll only need to increase the vertical. I had done so already, but since I don't have a Blu-Ray pattern for this, I had to eyeball it.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11779740
> 
> 
> Actually, I'll only need to increase the vertical. I had done so already, but since I don't have a Blu-Ray pattern for this, I had to eyeball it.




Cool. Then you'll lose just a wee bit of tightness in your vertical rez, but not enough to matter -



Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence

Mike, which Blu-Ray titles do you have? If you have any from Sony Pictures, all you have to do is type "SONY" (7669) on the menu to get a great 1080P test pattern.


I'm still playing with all of the settings on my new camera. It seems like I have to throttle it back a lot more to avoid over-saturation and over-exposure (not just with "Crank" which is intentionally over-saturated)...





























G90 with 9861 hours, 9.5' wide, blu-ray at 1080P, PS3 HDMI to moome IFB with gamma.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11780246
> 
> 
> Mike, which Blu-Ray titles do you have? If you have any from Sony Pictures, all you have to do is type "SONY" (7669) on the menu to get a great 1080P test pattern.



What are you all using for HD-DVD test patterns?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11780566
> 
> 
> What are you all using for HD-DVD test patterns?



I use the DVE HD disc and also the HD-Net test pattern that I have recorded on my DVR. I hear that this pattern will no longer be played on HD-Net so I'm glad I have it recorded.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11780787
> 
> 
> I use the DVE HD disc and also the HD-Net test pattern that I have recorded on my DVR. I hear that this pattern will no longer be played on HD-Net so I'm glad I have it recorded.



Does the DVE disc have good geometry, convergence, and greyscale patterns?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11780858
> 
> 
> Does the DVE disc have good geometry, convergence, and greyscale patterns?



In my opinion it does but then again, I don't fully understand the patterns enough to know if they are good ones or not. I have been using the convergence patterns more than anything else during setup of my XG. I figure I can fool with greyscale later once I get the thing converged properly. I like the convergence patterns with circles in each corner and the 90 degree angles at each screen corner center.


----------



## NautikaL

Right. I just need something so that when Ken or Terry come over I can get my money's worth







.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11780858
> 
> 
> Does the DVE disc have good geometry, convergence, and greyscale patterns?



Don't know about DVE, it's unpopular because of its extremely unfriendly navigation so I only use its filters, but I know the original VE did NOT have good geometry patterns, tho it did have good grayscale and color patterns. I suspect all patterns on DVE are perfect.


AVIA does NOT have good grayscale patterns - the mastering was done correctly by Guy Kuo but something got screwed up in the production - but that's its only flaw.


I use AVIA for geometry, convergence and color decoding - and for having actual measurements for color decoding and overscan - and the old VE DVD for grayscale. If you have one, guard it with your life - it's no longer available.


The new DVE does have some of the best color filters I have seen, tho, for fixed pixel displays. If you can't use pure color isolation, as is simple on triple-gun ceiling pjs -


Have not used the HD DVE, this info is only for the regular DVE, tho I would suspect them to be identical except for the scanrate formatting -



Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11781058
> 
> 
> Right. I just need something so that when Ken or Terry come over I can get my money's worth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yeah, I hope to be able to do this one day but until then I'm just trying to do the best I can on my own.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11780246
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 with 9861 hours, 9.5' wide, blu-ray at 1080P, PS3 HDMI to moome IFB with gamma.




Clarence, that's an unbelieveable set of pix, for having almost 10,000 hours on your rig!












Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL

Isn't AVIA fullscreen... so the geometry would be off?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11781632
> 
> 
> Isn't AVIA fullscreen... so the geometry would be off?



When AVIA is played in Pan & Scan, the Widescreen Enhanced Circlehatch Grid is in perfect 16x9. AVIA has to be played in non-letterbox format.


Overscan grid, under Special Tests, is also in perfect 16x9, as I am sure are others, but these are the 2 I use most.


Whenever using AVIA, always turn on the Repeat Pattern function - far lowest left corner - before proceeding. That way you don't have to worry about the patterns advancing on you every few minutes without your consent. It will then stay with the pattern you put it to, for as long as you need it.



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11781129
> 
> 
> AVIA does NOT have good grayscale patterns - the mastering was done correctly by Guy Kuo but something got screwed up in the production - but that's its only flaw.



What's wrong exactly? Thanks


----------



## Art Sonneborn

The new DVE HDDVD has great convergence,geometry and gray scale patterns.


Art


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11783744
> 
> 
> What's wrong exactly? Thanks



Grayscale patterns are slewed towards the red.


If you are using component, you can disco Pb and Pr and you'll wind up with empirical b/w on the Y-only connector. Or if you are on S, disco the chrominance leg and you'll have just the luminance. In which case the AVIA patterns work just fine.


Tho the owners who frequent this thread definitely won't be using S, and probably not component, either.



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11784969
> 
> 
> 
> If you are using component, you can disco Pb and Pr and you'll wind up with empirical b/w on the Y-only connector. Or if you are on S, disco the chrominance leg and you'll have just the luminance. In which case the AVIA patterns work just fine.



Okay that made no sense the first time around until I figured out disco meant disconnect







.


How about this... is it fine to use via HDMI or is it still skewed towards the red? Thanks.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11784993
> 
> 
> Okay that made no sense the first time around until I figured out disco meant disconnect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> How about this... is it fine to use via HDMI or is it still skewed towards the red? Thanks.



Sorry. There's no way to convert HDMI/DVI to b/w. Nor for RGB. For those formats you need the correct patterns. Our tricks for getting pure b/w for use with grayscale can only go so far...


And you can't just always turn your color intensity all the way off, to get pure b/w for grayscale purposes. That can slew the colorations massively. On a Tosh RPTV in sm, it will give you phosphorescent Kryptonite green!


Grayscale has to be done with color and tint at least close to what they will be in the end. If too far away, you're taking chances, as grayscale CAN be interactive with color and tint. Color and tint are interactive with contrast level. When doing ceiling pjs, ISF's Jim Doolittle always has all 3 guns on whenever he only needs 2, or even one, because the load on the power supply can change things in there, depending on how hard it is being asked to work. He keeps them on and covered up, rather than take any chances.



In the end, eveything has to be excellently dialed in IN THE CONDITION IN WHICH IT WILL BE WATCHED. Color, tint, brightness, contrast, convergence, focusing, everything.



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL

Okay last post before this thread gets far too off topic (I'll have to post some screenshots in here sometime!)


So what would you recommend I use to setup grayscale? I have a Toshiba HD-A2 outputting HDMI to a HDFury and then going through the RTC2200 RGB pass-through (gamma correction).


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11785289
> 
> 
> Okay last post before this thread gets far too off topic (I'll have to post some screenshots in here sometime!)
> 
> 
> So what would you recommend I use to setup grayscale? I have a Toshiba HD-A2 outputting HDMI to a HDFury and then going through the RTC2200 RGB pass-through (gamma correction).



As Art says, the HD-DVD version of DVE has excellent patterns, all around. The DVE discs are very reasonably priced, esp. if you go thru Amazon.com.


There's a website with tutorials on it. It's www.videoessentials.com . The tutorial is at http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/index.html .



Mr Bob


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11780246
> 
> 
> Mike, which Blu-Ray titles do you have? If you have any from Sony Pictures, all you have to do is type "SONY" (7669) on the menu to get a great 1080P test pattern.
> 
> 
> I'm still playing with all of the settings on my new camera. It seems like I have to throttle it back a lot more to avoid over-saturation and over-exposure (not just with "Crank" which is intentionally over-saturated)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 with 9861 hours, 9.5' wide, blu-ray at 1080P, PS3 HDMI to moome IFB with gamma.



Damn Clarence,


That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one










Great thread, and I enjoy looking at all of the screen shots.


Keep em coming.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11776642
> 
> 
> G90 Stack:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Cliff,


I have no illusions that your setup would wax my Benq if they were side by side










Those shots you took at Arts look fantastic!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11785769
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> I have no illusions that your setup would wax my Benq if they were side by side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those shots you took at Arts look fantastic!



Thanks so much. I for one as well think those shots of Art's Sim are kick ass. Those are the LARGEST screen shots I have ever posted thanks to that bad boys SHARP picture. Awesome setup Art has now. Love it.


Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11785700
> 
> 
> Damn Clarence,
> 
> 
> That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one



Oh, I wouldn't belt him just yet. I think he's just finishing up. Or is he just starting? Gotta do some checking (good excuse, where was that scene?...) Either way, she looks happy...


Wouldn't want to disturb that -


You got to let a man finish with his woman before you belt him...













Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11785700
> 
> 
> Damn Clarence,
> 
> 
> That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread, and I enjoy looking at all of the screen shots.
> 
> 
> Keep em coming.



I didn't like that one because it was over-saturated... it was driving me crazy on my new camera. IMHO, it made Jason look sunburned and jaundiced. And the background magentas and cyans were way too hot and cartoony.


But good news... I was clicking through the camera's menus last night and I found where the original owner had bumped up the Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Tone of the default "Standard" Picture Style (400D Menu 2... Picture Style... Set... Standard... Jump: Detail Set... Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color tone.)


The 400D/XTi comes with 3 User Def settings for this purpose. So I don't think they should let you modify the 6 preset Styles (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome).


Anyways, I'm going to reshoot some scenes tonight and they'll be much closer to reference.


Also, on the far right side, you'll notice where my raster extends beyond the existing wear on the green tube. I rarely notice it on my screen, but in screenshots it really stands out. So I think I'm going to scale my screen size down about 4". But as Bob noticed... not too shabby for 9,800 hours on the original tubes.


----------



## dropzone7

Clarence, I though you were using 108" wide anyway. Your shots above say 9.5' though.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11788414
> 
> 
> I didn't like that one because it was over-saturated... it was driving me crazy on my new camera. IMHO, it made Jason look sunburned and jaundiced. And the background magentas and cyans were way too hot and cartoony.
> 
> 
> But good news... I was clicking through the camera's menus last night and I found where the original owner had bumped up the Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Tone of the default "Standard" Picture Style (400D Menu 2... Picture Style... Set... Standard... Jump: Detail Set... Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color tone.)
> 
> 
> The 400D/XTi comes with 3 User Def settings for this purpose. So I don't think they should let you modify the 6 preset Styles (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome).
> 
> 
> Anyways, I'm going to reshoot some scenes tonight and they'll be much closer to reference.
> 
> 
> Also, on the far right side, you'll notice where my raster extends beyond the existing wear on the green tube. I rarely notice it on my screen, but in screenshots it really stands out. So I think I'm going to scale my screen size down about 4". But as Bob noticed... not too shabby for 9,800 hours on the original tubes.




Clarence,


Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11788124
> 
> 
> Oh, I wouldn't belt him just yet. I think he's just finishing up. Or is he just starting? Gotta do some checking (good excuse, where was that scene?...) Either way, she looks happy...
> 
> 
> Wouldn't want to disturb that -
> 
> 
> You got to let a man finish with his woman before you belt him...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I hear ya...


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11788785
> 
> 
> Clarence, I though you were using 108" wide anyway. Your shots above say 9.5' though.



My screen is framed/bordered to 9.5' wide. But I have those 2 full-height black speaker columns which I can pull in or out to decrease the screen width, effectively masking the screen width.


So even though tthe screen is 9.5' wide, the projected image pictured above is _"only"_ 108" (9' wide), because of the 61" height of the material... 108/16*9 = 60.75" So *108" x 60.75"* is probably the proper label.


I'll probably pull the right-side column in another 4" where the raster extends beyond the existing wear. I'll re-border the top and bottom of the frame... to end up with 104" x 58.5" (16:9).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11789048
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?



Sure... I'm still trying to pick the best settings, so I always take tons of permutations... ISO, Av, exposure time, Picture modes, zoom width, etc. I prefer to use neutral settings... no boost in contrast or saturation. And no post-processing... no photoshop sharpening... just crop and resize.


----------



## Clarence

The detail from this 10.1MP camera is pretty amazing.


Check out this resized screenshot...










Here's an unresized crop:


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11785407
> 
> 
> As Art says, the HD-DVD version of DVE has excellent patterns, all around. The DVE discs are very reasonably priced, esp. if you go thru Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> There's a website with tutorials on it. It's www.videoessentials.com . The tutorial is at http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/index.html .
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



161 pages?! However, interesting and more useful than the download for the regular version (at "only" 69 pages).

Wish I had a duplex printer, though. A duplex COLOR printer.

Yup, and a house in Malibu and a....


Michael


----------



## imprez25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11792806
> 
> 
> The detail from this 10.1MP camera is pretty amazing.
> 
> 
> Check out this resized screenshot...
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an unresized crop:



Okay, that is insane!


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imprez25* /forum/post/11793914
> 
> 
> Okay, that is insane!




I second that!


----------



## overclkr

Awesome Clarence!!!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/11789048
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?



I'll do one step better... I'll use a reference frame directly from the blu-ray and then show the same screenshot as I change camera settings.


Here's the original scene that sarah99 extracted from blu-ray and posted in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=663 


That is *not* a screenshot... I call it a "frame capture" or a "screen grab". I copied this 1920x1080 jpg (actually, I think it was 1920x1088) to a CF card and inserted it into my PS3... looks just like the blu-ray, except I don't have to navigate to the same scene and pause at the exact frame... much easier. Plus, the jpg on CF gets rid of the pause symbol.


The original *reference* frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:










Here's my camera's "Standard" settings. Although I notice in the EXIF info, it doesn't use my camera's "Picture Style" names (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful), but it does list the value for contrast, saturation, and sharpness...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> File: - C:\\PICTURES\\2007\\0710 - October 2007\\IMG_1180.JPG
> 
> 
> Make - Canon
> 
> Model - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
> 
> Orientation - Top left
> 
> XResolution - 72
> 
> YResolution - 72
> 
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> DateTime - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
> 
> YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
> 
> ExifOffset - 196
> 
> ExposureTime - 1/1.7 seconds
> 
> FNumber - 7.10
> 
> ExposureProgram - Manual control
> *ISOSpeedRatings - 400*
> 
> ExifVersion - 0221
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
> 
> DateTimeDigitized - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
> 
> ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
> *ShutterSpeedValue - 1/2 seconds*
> *ApertureValue - F 7.10*
> 
> ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
> 
> MeteringMode - Multi-segment
> 
> Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
> 
> FocalLength - 42 mm
> 
> UserComment -
> 
> FlashPixVersion - 0100
> 
> ColorSpace - sRGB
> 
> ExifImageWidth - 3888
> 
> ExifImageHeight - 2592
> 
> InteroperabilityOffset - 5766
> 
> FocalPlaneXResolution - 4433.30
> 
> FocalPlaneYResolution - 4453.61
> 
> FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> CustomRendered - Normal process
> 
> ExposureMode - Manual
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Standard
> 
> 
> Maker Note (Vendor): -
> 
> Macro mode - Normal
> 
> Self timer - 100/10 sec
> 
> Quality - Fine
> 
> Flash mode - Not fired
> 
> Sequence mode - Single or Timer
> 
> Focus mode - One-Shot
> 
> Image size - Large
> 
> Easy shooting mode - Manual
> 
> Digital zoom - None
> *Contrast - Normal
> 
> Saturation - Normal
> 
> Sharpness - High , +4*
> 
> ISO Value - 32767
> 
> Metering mode - Evaluative
> 
> Focus type - Auto
> 
> AF point selected -
> 
> Exposure mode - Manual
> 
> Focal length - 28 - 80 mm (1 mm)
> 
> Flash activity - Not fired
> 
> Flash details -
> 
> Focus mode 2 - Single
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> Sequence number - 0
> 
> Flash bias - 0.00 EV
> 
> Subject Distance - 0
> 
> Image Type - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
> 
> Firmware Version - Firmware 1.1.1
> 
> Owner Name - unknown
> 
> Camera Serial Number - 1120631205
> 
> File number - 625 - 2496
> 
> 
> Thumbnail: -
> 
> Compression - 6 (JPG)
> 
> XResolution - 72
> 
> YResolution - 72
> 
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> JpegIFOffset - 6132
> 
> JpegIFByteCount - 7222



Contrast and Stauration are "Normal", but "Sharpness is reported as "High , +4", even though that's the camera's "Standard" Photo Style. But next time I'll try to bump that down to "Sharpness - Normal".



My screenshot (G90, 108" wide, 1080P)...

Camera's "Standard" settings: f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds










Not bad. In fact, the contrast and white balance look arguably better. The primaries (RGB) are more saturated. But I'm losing a lot of detail in the brown dreadlocks.


The original *reference* frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:










The colors had too much punch compared to the reference, so I turned the Saturation levels all the way down, but kept all of the other settings the same:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> File: - C:\\PICTURES\\2007\\0710 - October 2007\\IMG_1192.JPG
> 
> 
> ShutterSpeedValue - 1/2 seconds
> 
> ApertureValue - F 7.10
> 
> ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
> 
> Contrast - Normal
> *Saturation - Low , -4*
> 
> Sharpness - High , +3



Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to minimum (-4):

f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds










Oops... that camera setting loses too much saturation.


So stay tuned as I try to adjust the camera settings to get closer to the reference frame. Next I'll try Saturation -2 instead of -4.


----------



## NautikaL

Interesting...those shots really make me curious about what it really looks like in person.


----------



## Clarence

I zeroed out the camera's "Standard" Sharpness setting and then I set Saturation to 0 then -1...


Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to "Normal" (0):


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Contrast - Normal
> 
> Saturation - Normal
> 
> Sharpness - Normal



f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds (Saturation=0)










Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to "Low" (-1):

f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds (Saturation -1)










The original *reference* frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:










So, Saturation 0 or -1 looks pretty good.


Next experiments...

- vary ISO (100, 200, 400, 800)

- vary Av

- vary shutter speed


I've got to capture the detail in his dreadlocks... it's on the screen. And I might have to switch off AWB.


----------



## Clarence

Some more quickies, using the same settings...

Contrast = Normal

Saturation = Normal

Sharpness = Normal

f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds:






































The original reference frames are in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11344917 


This really is a lot easier than swapping blu-rays. And it's easily repeatable if anyone else wants to try the exact same scene.


----------



## Clarence

I bumped up the brightness on the projector a few clicks to get some more detail in his dreadlocks. But I decreased the exposure time a little bit to compensate (1/2 sec down to 1/3 sec)...


f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:









*Reference* frame extracted from blu-ray:










The White Balance is still different (the original seems to have a yellow haze to it).


I also tried various ISO and Av settings, but on a tripod, the end results look the same, especially when reduced to web size. If I double the ISO (e.g. 400 to 800) and half the exposure time (e.g. 1/2 sec to 1/4 sec), the resulting screenshots are pretty much the same.


----------



## NautikaL

Clarence, how does it compare in person with the jpeg? In other words, in person does it have that yellow haze or is it more like your screenshot. Just wondering whether it's your camera or video setup that's reducing the "yellow haze" (as you put it).


I wonder what Cliff's stack looks like with the dreadlocks. He seems to get a lot of low IRE detail. Cliff, where are you!


----------



## greg_mitch

Clarence can you see all of the dreads when you look at what you are projecting? The screen shot looks like you lost all the low level detail.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greg_mitch* /forum/post/11796259
> 
> 
> Clarence can you see all of the dreads when you look at what you are projecting? The screen shot looks like you lost all the low level detail.



The one with the brightness clicked up is a bit better. I think it's hard to capture low level detail with a camera... anyone?


----------



## Clarence

I think the projected image on my screen looks more like my screenshot than the reference image.


But our eyes can do a good job adjusting to any offset white balance... you can shine a projector on a yellow or pink wall and after a few minutes, white will look white and black will look black.


And digital cameras with AWB also provide compensation... which is why screenshots from d!%!#@| projectors look like they have inky blacks.


And maybe the frame grabbing method that sarah99 used to capture the frame from the blu-ray introduced some color space issues, or it might be impacted by the various software players and overlays that can be used.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11796325
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> And maybe the frame grabbing method that sarah99 used to capture the frame from the blu-ray introduced some color space issues, or it might be impacted by the various software players and overlays that can be used.



Possibly, because outside light is usually bluish. I don't see why the scene would be so yellow. And isn't your set calibrated by Terry?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11796369
> 
> 
> Possibly, because outside light is usually bluish. I don't see why the scene would be so yellow. And isn't your set calibrated by Terry?



Terry did the initial setup and helped me install the green and red c-elements. Ken W did the in-depth color calibration.


Just for comparison, I took my last screenshot and post-processed the white balance by adjusting red-10, green-10, and blue-40...


unadjusted screenshot, f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:










Same screenshot with RGB adjusted in PaintShopPro, f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:









*Reference* frame extracted from blu-ray:


----------



## NautikaL

Add more red, take out some green and I think you'd be really close







.


----------



## Mr Bob

Most computer monitors run at D9300, from my experience. The only way all of us are going to be seeing EXACTLY the same thing on these screenshots - at least colorwise - would be for each one of our monitors to be calibrated exactly the same way as each of the others. Either to D9300, computer style, or to D6500 - to be totally accurate - for all of us. And with the accuracy we depend on in our calibrations.


Most computer monitors seem to give much more accuracy to D9300 than they do to D6500, tho I must confess that I have not seen many monitors running at D6500 at all.


So a lot of us are depending on the fidelity of our monitors to ATTEMPT to see the same thing as the others.



That said, I too can see the differences y'all are talking about. On my PC monitor, the reference looks - well - not real faithful to my memory of the movie, let's put it that way.


Clarence's initial shots seem more true to the original, all except for the dreads, which I agree need to show more.


But I would have to be watching something on my calibrated display and compare the same thing to my pc monitor, to know for sure -



Mr Bob


----------



## greg_mitch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11797104
> 
> 
> Most computer monitors run at D9300, from my experience. The only way all of us are going to be seeing EXACTLY the same thing on these screenshots - at least colorwise - would be for each one of our monitors to be calibrated exactly the same way as each of the others. Either to D9300, computer style, or to D6500 - to be totally accurate - for all of us. And with the accuracy we depend on in our calibrations.
> 
> 
> Most computer monitors seem to give much more accuracy to D9300 than they do to D6500, tho I must confess that I have not seen many monitors running at D6500 at all.
> 
> 
> So a lot of us are depending on the fidelity of our monitors to ATTEMPT to see the same thing as the others.
> 
> 
> 
> That said, I too can see the differences y'all are talking about. On my PC monitor, the reference looks - well - not real faithful to my memory of the movie, let's put it that way.
> 
> 
> Clarence's initial shots seem more true to the original, all except for the dreads, which I agree need to show more.
> 
> 
> But I would have to be watching something on my calibrated display and compare the same thing to my pc monitor, to know for sure -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I am checking this thread at work on a different monitor...different story altogether. Makes me wonder how this "war" is gonna work now...hmmm.


----------



## kschmit2

I have been running my monitor at D6500 for the past couple of years


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11714677
> 
> 
> Can you see all the distinct shades?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (grayscale image credit to dpreview.com )



Here's another good webpage for assessing your monitor:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS.../CALIBRATE.HTM


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11795894
> 
> 
> The White Balance is still different (the original seems to have a yellow haze to it).
> 
> 
> I also tried various ISO and Av settings, but on a tripod, the end results look the same, especially when reduced to web size. If I double the ISO (e.g. 400 to 800) and half the exposure time (e.g. 1/2 sec to 1/4 sec), the resulting screenshots are pretty much the same.



Your best shot will be to use the camera's white balance set mode. Project a 100% white image from your favorite calibration disc, fill the viewfinder with it, set the camera for white balance set mode, and use that setting for future screen shots.

As a minor point, higher ASA settings introduce more noise, so you'd be better off shooting at ASA 100.

Fun though, isn't it?

Good luck.

Michael


----------



## overclkr

Hmmmm..... Looks like it's time to fire up the G90's tonight.......


Me loves screenshots.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11800116
> 
> 
> Here's another good webpage for assessing your monitor:
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS.../CALIBRATE.HTM



Is this good, I just found it in google.


----------



## Clarence

Here's the original frame from the HD DVD:










Screenshot, 9' wide, G90, 1080P PS3:










Not bad, but the color of the sky is off. And I'm missing some yellow in his skin.


I'll play with the camera's white balance settings tonight.


----------



## Clarence

"Starship Troopers":


Original frame from Blu-ray:

1920x1080: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11250053 










screenshot with autobalance (AWB), 9' wide, G90, 1080P PS3:










screenshot with manual white balance set from white screen:










Better, but still missing some yellow.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11803395
> 
> 
> Better, but still missing some yellow.



I trust you remembered to turn the other settings back to zero.

Nice start, though. And I admire your persistence, as well.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11797104
> 
> 
> But I would have to be watching something on my calibrated display and compare the same thing to my pc monitor, to know for sure -
> 
> Mr Bob



So if I use Spyder2Pro, which requires hooking my computer up to the TV, will the calibration be okay when I switch back to DVD (both using HDMI)?

Or will it just be good for calibrating my computer monitor so I can see better here?









Michael


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/11804966
> 
> 
> And I admire your persistence, as well.



It's a fun way to learn most of the settings in the new camera I got last week.


Mark Haflich and Phil Smith were begging for more screenshots in another thread, so these are for them...


I redid the white screen manual white balance... I must've messed it up the first time, because this time I got a new message that told me to change to the buffered custom WB setting.


Plus, I got a new lens this afternoon...











original from HD DVD:









screenshot:










Original from blu-ray:









screenshot:










Original:









screenshot:


----------



## Clarence

Original from HD DVD:









screenshot:









9882 hours on these tubes:


----------



## overclkr

Some practice shots:


----------



## overclkr
















































Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Amazing back ground detail on the lady in the wet white dress. Are these shots from the 5th Element too?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11807159
> 
> 
> Amazing back ground detail on the lady in the wet white dress. Are these shots from the 5th Element too?



You bastard. Dont even bother to tell me how nice my shots look.

















Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11807687
> 
> 
> You bastard. Dont even bother to tell me how nice my shots look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



My compliments shall have to suffice







.


I really like the shot with the jail bars. The reflections contrast nicely with the inky black bars. But it looks like there's some lower IRE detail missing in the dreadlocks. G90s must not like dreadlocks or something







. Sorry, I think I'm obsessed with shadow detail for some reason...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11807859
> 
> 
> My compliments shall have to suffice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> I really like the shot with the jail bars. The reflections contrast nicely with the inky black bars. But it looks like there's some lower IRE detail missing in the dreadlocks. G90s must not like dreadlocks or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sorry, I think I'm obsessed with shadow detail for some reason...



LOL. Yeah, you would think looking at that shot that there should be something in his noggin' but I took 4 shots at 2 different modes and there is nothing to speak of on shadow detail for his head on that frame.










Kind of like this shot taken from the RS1, no shadow detail in his head either.











Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

I'm bac!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11808347

















Very nice!


Hmmm... Mike, I think a shot of The Day After Tomorrow with some snow falling would look show off detail?


----------



## overclkr

Sim2 HT5000:











G90 Stack:











This is EXTREMELY preliminary. This is NOT the same frame but you get the jist.










Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

Wow...those are almost identical! (color wise)


----------



## overclkr

Second Round:


HT 5000:











G90 Stack:











Not quite there yet I dont think. Must keep going........


At any rate, you see how much SHARPER DLP is over CRT.










I'm done for tonight. Must move to the bed. Must work tomorrow........


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy. Amazing screen shots. I can't believe my eyes. The Red Sea parting pales in comparison. Great sex can't hold a candle to looking at screen shots. I'll never watch

anything moving again. Just screen shots for me.


Actually when I looked all those shots, the only thing I saw was the detail behind the wet white dress of that lady. But I thought the chick in the 5th element didn't have knockers like that and I thought she was a red head. Could your colors be off?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11808641
> 
> 
> Cliffy. Amazing screen shots. I can't believe my eyes. The Red Sea parting pales in comparison. Great sex can't hold a candle to looking at screen shots. I'll never watch
> 
> anything moving again. Just screen shots for me.
> 
> 
> Actually when I looked all those shots, the only thing I saw was the detail behind the wet white dress of that lady. But I thought the chick in the 5th element didn't have knockers like that and I thought she was a red head. Could your colors be off?



Oh hell yeah, I'm ALL ABOUT THE BOOBS.

















Especially the NIPPLE! It's a man's natural habitat, whether it be BABY or ADULT.































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Well i finally got off my arse and moved my second PJ into the theater and tried a floor ceiling stack with my Marquee's. A lot more work than i thought!!!

well it was going to be temporary but after seeing the difference in Brightness I think i am going to figure out away to keep it till i can move to a blend.


One Marqee. ISO 400 fuji Finpix F10 for both pix













2 marquees












This was a quick set up and really didnt do ploper set up of the floor marqee. But the one thing i noticed is how much more 3D the image looked I never knew how much shadow detail can improve the depth of an image!!!



Athanasios


----------



## mark haflich

With this screen shot fixation, some of those taking pictures here will have better cameras than their projectors. Yuk. Yuk.


----------



## mp20748

Taking the system down for a few days or weeks. So I'll do my last shots for now.



> Quote:
> 1080P on my lowly 8500


----------



## mp20748

Momento


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

I'll post all my latest on this same page, since it's going to my last for awhile..


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11808512
> 
> 
> Second Round:
> 
> 
> HT 5000:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 Stack:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite there yet I dont think. Must keep going........
> 
> 
> At any rate, you see how much SHARPER DLP is over CRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm done for tonight. Must move to the bed. Must work tomorrow........
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yeah, real seriously sharper there, Cliff. LIke the differences just reached out and clobbered me!











NOT! No highly discernable differences noticeable in this camp!


Other than a bit of white crush on yours, which I am sure is the camera and not the pj stack, having seen the pj stack in action with my own eyes -


With the cam altered between the 2 to compensate for the light level differences because yours is brighter being a double stack, I would be REALLY hard pressed to see any difference -


Nice!











Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11811603
> 
> 
> Yeah, real seriously sharper. Yuk...
> 
> 
> Other than a bit of white crush, which I am sure is the camera and not the pj stack, having seen the pj stack in action with my own eyes -
> 
> 
> With the cam altered to compensate between the 2, I would be REALLY hard pressed to see the difference -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Yep...besides the difference in sharpness, it looks nearly identical. I guess that can be atributed to the fact that it was calibrated by the same person and both shots were taken with the same camera though.


By the way... I got AVIA and DVE so I might post some screenshots this weekend sometime from my lowly uncalibrated and poorly converged XG1100







.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11813495
> 
> 
> Yep...besides the difference in sharpness, it looks nearly identical. I guess that can be atributed to the fact that it was calibrated by the same person and both shots were taken with the same camera though.
> 
> 
> By the way... I got AVIA and DVE so I might post some screenshots this weekend sometime from my lowly uncalibrated and poorly converged XG1100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



You'll notice I changed my post just a bit - ran out of time when writing it earlier, had to go to a dental appointment, so just did the changes in it, above. Had meant to say yuks or yuk yuk, rather than just yuk; there IS a big difference...











Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence




----------



## Mr Bob

Clarence, you're knocking my socks off, here! Amazing!











Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

These Rox my Boxers.









































































































Cliffy


----------



## NateTTU

awesome screens guys... I wish my XG could compete.


btw: spiderman looks like a *** in that pic, just saying


----------



## CaspianM

XG1352

component [email protected]

off Directv DVR

Looks good considering the signal imo.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NateTTU* /forum/post/11819061
> 
> 
> awesome screens guys... I wish my XG could compete.
> 
> 
> btw: spiderman looks like a *** in that pic, just saying



LOL!!!!!!!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff, I think this crop of the center of your King Kong shots demonstrates what you said .














Left: G90 Stack Right: HT 5000


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11818513
> 
> 
> These Rox my Boxers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Cliff, I love that last one...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11819690
> 
> 
> Cliff, I love that last one...




Yeah, the texture on the skin, the fidelity of the rims of the glasses, with no edge enhancement getting in the way -



Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM

XG1352, D*TV DVR, 1080i










Cliff's G90 stack


----------



## Clarence

Excellent job CaspianM.


Cliff's pic has the advantage in the TRex's eye and on the shadows of her face, but overall the detail and color is very nice.


----------



## CaspianM

I can do a bit better next time. It was my second screenshot ever.

Some detail:

Canon A640 10 mpix point&shoot

Pushed iso 200

Post process, resize and crop

Pre process in camera: sharpness +1, contrast -1, mode, WB auto, neutral color


XG:

contrast 60

brightness 60

else default

No gamma bump all analog signal from DVR.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11823256
> 
> 
> I can do a bit better next time. It was my second screenshot ever.
> 
> Some detail:
> 
> Canon A640 10 mpix point&shoot
> 
> Pushed iso 200
> 
> Post process, resize and crop
> 
> Pre process in camera: sharpness +1, contrast -1, mode, WB auto, neutral color
> 
> 
> XG:
> 
> contrast 60
> 
> brightness 60
> 
> else default
> 
> No gamma bump all analog signal from DVR.



Not bad for all analog 1080i! Cliff's is 1080p HDMI out to the pjs, where on final leg it goes back to RGB.


Of course you won't see the advantage of Cliff's gamma bump on that kind of mid-light-level shot -



Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM

Thank for comments given they come from Clarence and Mr Bob .


----------



## Zues

Colors are a little hot imo. Before and after.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11825180
> 
> 
> Thank for comments given they come from Clarence and Mr Bob .



The XG always has been one of my favorites.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/11826174
> 
> 
> Colors are a little hot imo. Before and after.



Nice!!! Keep em' coming!


Cliff


----------



## Zues

Another comparison.

 [/quote]


[img=http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3595/zzuk4.th.jpg]


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/11826174
> 
> 
> Colors are a little hot imo.













I'm not doing anything to make them come out that way. There may be a color adjustment on the camera, but I'm not touching it.


Where are you getting your shot from?


----------



## Zues

I'm just tweaking the original shots. Some i can improve, some i cant. One more.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11826228
> 
> 
> The XG always has been one of my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



XG is a few's favorites but G90 and stacked are everyone's including myself.









Thank you for commenting.


----------



## NautikaL

You all better watch out







! I'm going to try to redo my green astig, which flares to the bottom right really badly as well as convergence and geometry. The 8" contest is on! By the way, Mike, you are officially disqualified from this category until someone verifies that you are using 8" tubes and not 9"ers







.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11828021
> 
> 
> The 8" contest is on! By the way, Mike, you are officially disqualified from this category until someone verifies that you are using 8" tubes and not 9"ers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Boy, Mike, is that ever a left-handed compliment!











Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11829030
> 
> 
> Boy, Mike, is that ever a left-handed compliment!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Isn't it a back handed compliment?


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11829108
> 
> 
> Isn't it a back handed compliment?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I'm sure you're right. All I remembered was that there was a hand in there somewhere...











Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11829130
> 
> 
> I'm sure you're right. All I remembered was that there was a hand in there somewhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Are you sure it's not a foot







?



Okay so I redid my green astig and did a rough convergence. Will post some screenshots tomorrow







.


----------



## overclkr

I want to see a picture of Mike's projector like the old CRTCINEMA days from ebay. Show me the projector firing on the screen.










This thread has been a f'ing blast. Some of the best screenshots to EVER grace this forum have been posted here. Lovin' it.


Just fired up the stack. Thinking of a little TOTO on BD for this weekends shots.










Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11828021
> 
> 
> The 8" contest is on! By the way, Mike, you are officially disqualified from this category until someone verifies that you are using 8" tubes and not 9"ers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yep that has already been confirmed, but after being at Williams a few days ago. I now want 9" tubes..










My 8500 and each of Williams two 9500 are both firing on basically the same size screen area each. What I'm seeing coming from one of his 9500 blows my lowly 8" away in sharpness. And I've really not started the real setup yet..










Yep, must go 9" tubes now. but would love to have a few folk over to check out that lowly 8" in action before I make the switch. It's very special still.


It's been a long time since I've read a post where someones says an 8" CRT projector cannot do 1080P.. well, my lowly 8500 is truly an 8" CRT projector


----------



## nashou66

8000 and 8500 stacked 8500 with a quick set up not fully dialed in. 1080p48hz 12 foot screen.








































Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11829798
> 
> 
> My 8500 and each of Williams two 9500 are both firing on basically the same size screen area each.




I have an owner in SD who wants to go side by side and has 2 9500's, each newly regunned. He's ready for bear now.


Cliff, you said none but the G90 can do a horizontal stack. All others have to be vertically stacked. He doesn't have the space to go vertical. At this point he has a lead on one G90 and is looking for a second, to be able to pull this off. He'll be having me down to do the cal once he's ready.


But if he could use his present 9500's, he'd be ready right now.


Mike, are these 9500's at Williams, mentioned here, stacked horizonally or vertically? Are there no exceptions to what Cliff said?


Cliff, are you absolutely sure side by side stacking can't be done with the 9500's?



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11836149
> 
> 
> Mike, are these 9500's at Williams, mentioned here, stacked horizonally or vertically? Are there no exceptions to what Cliff said?
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



They're blended, not stacked







.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11836157
> 
> 
> They're blended, not stacked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



My owner in SD could check out blended rather than stacked, I suppose, but still I need to know whether either one can be done side by side with 9500s.











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11836272
> 
> 
> but still I need to know whether either one can be done side by side with 9500s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yes, now it can be done. Go here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=919154


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11836639
> 
> 
> Yes, now it can be done. Go here:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=919154





Yeah, Jim's the owner in question I mentioned here. Yesterday I told him to talk with Cliff and Art in particular, as they lead the field in double-stacking. Presto, a thread gets started...!


Looks like he'll be able to do it after all.


Do the Marquee's have sufficient scheimpflug range for getting the focus right all over the screen, which means extended correction on the horizontal planes of all guns, one the opposite of the other and both just as far out there, but in opposing directions?


With side stacking that would become VERY important, as was stated over there also.



Mr Bob


----------



## tbase1

guest what projector created this image







Cheap camera took the shot


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbase1* /forum/post/11866517
> 
> 
> guest what projector created this image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap camera took the shot




Kloss Novabeam, what do I get ?

















Art


----------



## tbase1

wow....Mr. Sonneborn....that was way off. You've been out of crt's a couple months to long...but good guest none the less. It would be better if I knew how to make my post full screen like you guys.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbase1* /forum/post/11866921
> 
> 
> wow....Mr. Sonneborn....that was way off. You've been out of crt's a couple months to long...but good guest none the less. It would be better if I knew how to make my post full screen like you guys.



Just joking, I really don't know from that distance.


Art


----------



## tbase1

even though you were just joking...based on what you've been watching ,you might not be to far off related to quaility.


----------



## greg1292

I would guess g90 at 1080P










Did I win?


----------



## tbase1

crack kills







greg1292


----------



## Alan Gouger

Is it a Dwin. I am a lonely Dwin HD700 owner looking for some additional cheers from the Dwin camp


----------



## tbase1

Alan, I'm please to see you took a shot at it given your eye for projectors ,I must say no. I do have to say again ,my camera is not the best in the world and I'm not the greatest shooter as well.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbase1* /forum/post/11866921
> 
> 
> wow....Mr. Sonneborn....that was way off. You've been out of crt's a couple months to long...but good guest none the less. It would be better if I knew how to make my post full screen like you guys.



Put you pic up on web hosting site for pictures like image shack, snapfish, or on apple's webgallery if you use iweb. Then copy the address of the pic from that site you posted it on. Now when you want to add a pic to your post click the advanced option for your post and click on the image icon above then past your image address to your post. I preview post just to make sure it comes up.


Athanasios


----------



## tbase1

The projector is a sanyo Z4 LCD.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbase1* /forum/post/11868720
> 
> 
> The projector is a sanyo Z4 LCD.



I was going to guess an LCD but was not sure which one.


----------



## owl1











By owl1 , shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-10-10










By owl1 , shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-10-10










By owl1 , shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-10-10










By owl1 , shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-10-10


Shot on Sony Cybershot handheld. First attempts at screenshots, go easy


----------



## Gino AUS

owl1 - definitely digital... ruby?


----------



## tbase1

I think this projector is a pearl.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11871283
> 
> 
> owl1 - definitely digital... ruby?



Is it just me or can you see that "haze" in the picture? Kinda wierd. Must be the camera because my shots from the JVC RS1 look sweet. I've seen the pearl as well and it doesn't look like that to me in person.


Cliff


----------



## owl1

Same frame ( I think) Different pro. Hint: one of the two is a VW60 one a Ruby (Good Guess Gino/tbase). Which be which?










By owl1 , shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-10-10


Cliff, I'm still experimenting with the camera but I can't seem to eliminate the haze. It doesn't appear that way onscreen.


----------



## tbase1

third shot is a vw60


----------



## mp20748

I've connected the Xbox HD-DVD back up. I have to still set things up to it, but until then. here's a few shots:


----------



## mp20748

  

 


I took this one again:


----------



## tbase1

great picture mike ,but the blacks are crushed. The only thing I did not like about my crt's was that hd-dvd and blu-ray tend to crush the black levels. Other then that i was truely pleased.


----------



## greg1292

Thanks Tbase for the kind words but a Z4 is what it is an imposter trying to be crt.

I think that Overclocker and Clarence have the best pics on the forum but what do I know I'm smoking crack


----------



## RGBHV

Hey Alan! New member to the Dwin club here.


Will be setting mine up this weekend, excited to be back with a CRT again!


Brian


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbase1* /forum/post/11872117
> 
> 
> great picture mike ,but the blacks are crushed. The only thing I did not like about my crt's was that hd-dvd and blu-ray tend to crush the black levels. Other then that i was truely pleased.



It appears that the blacks are crushed from the screenshots, but that's far from the case when watching the same image on the screen.


CRT does not have a black crush issue, that is most common with source (gamma correction) devices and setup. And whatever


Digital may solve that problem, because of it's inability to actually do true black.


I prefer taking darker images for several reasons..


----------



## mp20748

A few more.

*1920x1080P - Xbox 360 - 8500*


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RGBHV* /forum/post/11872964
> 
> 
> Hey Alan! New member to the Dwin club here.
> 
> 
> Will be setting mine up this weekend, excited to be back with a CRT again!
> 
> 
> Brian



Hey Im not alone









The Dwin throws a very very nice picture. We are not in the same league as Mike P or Cliff and the guys but unless doing a direct side by side dam the Dwin looks good. Best of luck!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/11875496
> 
> 
> Hey Im not alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Dwin throws a very very nice picture. We are not in the same league as Mike P or Cliff and the guys but unless doing a direct side by side dam the Dwin looks good. Best of luck!





I agree. I love calibrating Dwins.











Mr Bob


----------



## spotmatic

Just a quick try... (made with my newly acquired Pentax K10D camera, 1080p/60 from the PS3 on my BarcoReality 909)


----------



## Rielplayer

very nice buddy, Patser


----------



## nashou66

Spotmatic nice work! you got the colors a lot nicer since your first posts. What size and gain screen is that on? loks great! the 909's are super nice!


Athanasios


----------



## spotmatic

Thanks Athanasios! The colors on the screen have stayed the same, but this camera (Pentax K10D) seems to cope better with it.


The 16:9 screen is only 2 metres wide (79") and it's a 1.0 gain screen. The 909 has been fitted with HD10L lenses, these seem to work a lot better in the center than the HD10F's I've tried earlier. They're not exactly sharp in the corners, but I must say that this is impossible to notice in movies. I don't have a HTPC so a sharp desktop is not really needed


----------



## mp20748

I think I've finished merging the Xbox 360 and my Electrohome switcher. My hope was to modify the switcher to accept the Moome HDMI card for the upcoming blend meet. And then later decided to marry it with my Xbox 360.

*Xbox 360/1080P -> modified Electrohome switcher -> 8500 = no gamma correction =*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob

Mike, you're dazzling me, here.











Will be interesting to see what happens after you install your Moome.



Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7

Mike, I think those are some of the best you have put up! Very nice indeed.


----------



## g-man5.1

Wonderful pictures Mike. Being a marquee 8500 owner, it's great to see what this projector is really capable of.


----------



## lordcloud




mp20748 said:


> I think I've finished merging the Xbox 360 and my Electrohome switcher. My hope was to modify the switcher to accept the Moome HDMI card for the upcoming blend meet. And then later decided to marry it with my Xbox 360.
> 
> *Xbox 360/1080P -> modified Electrohome switcher -> 8500 = no gamma correction =*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!


----------



## lordcloud

Mike. You have to develop some mods for us poor RPCRT TV folks. You have to!


----------



## tbase1

an another one.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Clarence

Mike, your exposure results are much better now.


Set 0 to red (to show black crush), 255 to green (to show clipping)...











Perfect mix... true black in the scene without crushing. True white in the scene without clipping (there are just a few green pixels near the ear on the right side) .


Did you change any camera settings?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11890842
> 
> 
> Did you change any camera settings?



No, the camera settings are the same. I'm now back to the Xbox 360 with these last batch of images the past few days.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11883902
> 
> 
> Mike, you're dazzling me, here



There's a lot of calibrators out there, and you're kind of new to me in these parts. But for sure, you know your stuff. No question you have an eye for image quality. Not that I'm claiming to be an expert, it's just that as a performance tweaker, I've found what presents the challenges for a video chain and setup. And that's the shots that I go after.


For someone who may not be aware of the struggles involved in bringing forth certain performance levels in video/film, they may not understand the shots that I'm taking. But you seem to be keeping up.. And there's a reason why I'm not all close-ups to show sharpness. I've found that when measuring for HDTV performance, the sharpness becomes detail, and that detail should be also found in the backgrounds.


Also, when you're able to do well with bringing out that detail, there is where you would get your 3D likeness. So when both detail and 3D likeness is present. The shot looks more like looking through a glass.


Every shot that I take is 100% un-touched. I simply fire up the camera and it will default to my settings of a speed of 80, with the exposure adjusted up one notch only. It's mounted on a tri-pod, so I then set the timer. The camera cost about $170.00, so I'm not expecting a lot of miracles from it, but for some reason, it's doing well capturing a lot of what's on the screen.


now with todays HDTV, I can see that clarity in detail thru-out a movie. And that's why most of my shots have the background showing, where you could either see it in detail, or you're be able to see the background being slightly out of focus because of the camera being focused on the foreground - there is a difference!


Good discerning eyes you got there..












> Quote:
> Will be interesting to see what happens after you install your Moome.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I'm heading out today with the switcher, and sometime today I'll get to try the Moome in the switcher. So I'll try and get back on that.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/11886663
> 
> 
> Mike. You have to develop some mods for us poor RPCRT TV folks. You have to!



I wish I could make it happen for you. But most RPCRT sets may not have the foundation to work with, and it's has been well over 15 years since I've really worked on any of them . Not sure what they've been doing lately with the later versions of the HDTV RPCRT's. I haven't kept up with them.


Later today, when I get back, I'll try and be mindful to list out the changes I'm making to the video chain with the mods.


----------



## tbase1

great shots Mike. I just can't get how to post large shots or i would go shot for shot with you.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11893199
> 
> 
> I wish I could make it happen for you. But most RPCRT sets may not have the foundation to work with, and it's has been well over 15 years since I've really worked on any of them . Not sure what they've been doing lately with the later versions of the HDTV RPCRT's. I haven't kept up with them.
> 
> 
> Later today, when I get back, I'll try and be mindful to list out the changes I'm making to the video chain with the mods.



I have a Hitachi 5159, one of the later RP CRTs, and I believe it has 8 inch guns. If you can ever put together any RP mods, you already have a customer.


----------



## overclkr

Mike these are for you:


----------



## overclkr
































































































Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

Very impressive there Cliff. I'm out of screenshots for now, because I've been working on Williams lowly 9500's for the blend meet. So I'll just post some of the ones from some of my previous shots, that I chose not to use (clipping most likely):


----------



## Shoujiki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11890842
> 
> 
> Mike, your exposure results are much better now.
> 
> 
> Set 0 to red (to show black crush), 255 to green (to show clipping)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect mix... true black in the scene without crushing. True white in the scene without clipping (there are just a few green pixels near the ear on the right side) .
> 
> 
> Did you change any camera settings?



May I ask, how did you do this? What program do you use and what function? Thanks!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shoujiki* /forum/post/11915295
> 
> 
> May I ask, how did you do this? What program do you use and what function? Thanks!



I use a program called "Paint Shop Pro". I bought it years ago... back when it was developed by Jasc (version 6). Now owned by Corel (version 12):
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satelli.../1184951547051 


The tool is called "Color Replacer".


I set it up to replace pure black with red. And replace pure white with green. Double-click... Done.


----------



## CaspianM

Neat tool!


----------



## Shoujiki

Awesome! I use that program all the time (V7)...and never would have thought of the color replacer tool...excellent! Thanks heaps for the info.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11893174
> 
> 
> There's a lot of calibrators out there, and you're kind of new to me in these parts. But for sure, you know your stuff. No question you have an eye for image quality. Not that I'm claiming to be an expert, it's just that as a performance tweaker, I've found what presents the challenges for a video chain and setup. And that's the shots that I go after.
> 
> 
> 
> Good discerning eyes you got there..



I cut my teeth on ceiling pjs many years ago, on Ampros and Runcos and Dwins (had Ed talk me thru a mod on one of his units in the field, years ago), but in the last few years had more and more requests for RPTVs, and just kinda fell in with them, guess they needed me more than you guys did.











It's been that way thru most of the HD revolution of the past 8 or so years.


I still remember doing a $40K Runco way out in the Blackhawk area of East Bay here in the Bay Area, tho, which had the standard Faroudja scaler on it. I did my thing with it, including astig and scheimpflug, getting the picture really sizzling.


They had not been prioritizing HD. I asked why not. They said they had a Faroudja. I said, then we have a few more hours of work to do.


Ultimately I ordered and installed a Runco point board to take care of the extra definition involved, fully tweaked it up, and then called the owner over for a look-see. I can still see the look in his eyes when I demo'd the difference between a regular DVD upconverted via the Faroudja, and the same material coming thru in true HD. He was stunned, because now that $20K Faroudja wasn't looking as good as it had before. The HD was trouncing all over it, and we both knew that HD was going to be the end of an era for a major page in the life of Faroudja. Not only was the picture just plain richer, it was now possible to sit several feet closer to the screen than ever before, delivering a net BIGGER size picture to be able to enjoy.


I have been into ceiling pjs for over 20 years. With the era of the CRT RPTV coming to a close, and being abandoned over the next few years, I think that coming back to ceiling pjs will be where I want to be, rather than simply calibrating fixed pixel from now on, which is all that will be left in the regular consumer market after the next few years. Aside from the owners of the highly expensive Pioneer Elites back then, who are staying loyal to their investments, those guys with regular-priced CRT RPTVs are abandoning ship right and left. There won't be any to calibrate, soon.


I figure you guys will stay loyal to our shared love of CRT tech, and if I am lucky, hopefully will bring me back to where I started, many years ago.


Supertweaking your systems. That is, those of you who don't already have Mike or Ken to do yours -












Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

here are some new shots after i fixed the horizon on the scan yoke for the red tube and redid the green astig and magnetics on the 8500(floor mounted) the 8000 was calibrated earlier this year by Craig Rounds and is on the ceiling.

What a difference in brightness does a stack make! wish i could go side by side but it be close to 5000 for upgraded parts to do. so this will do for now.


Fuji finepix @ 400 iso custom white balance 12 foot screen.





























Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11922427
> 
> 
> here are some new shots after i fixed the horizon on the scan yoke for the red tube and redid the green astig and magnetics on the 8500(floor mounted) the 8000 was calibrated earlier this year by Craig Rounds and is on the ceiling.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Don't know if you are aware of it, but Craig Rounds has a mod he worked out for CRT RPTVs that use a certain IC in the CRT socket boards, like Mit and Sony. It is an anti-ringing mod, a tiny trimmer variable cap that can be soldered in in just the right place, to trim the edge off the ee that is inherent in these ICs, which are a very popular IC for that stage of the signal chain.


He had observed my writing style, and approached me about editing his white paper on the subject, that he wanted to get out.


I dropped everything and went to his aid - had him send me the entire article, whereupon I set about to correct lots of grammaticals and spelling errors. He is a wizard about what he does calibrationwise, but challenged in getting it down on paper to a publishing degree.


A couple of hours later I had finished up, and sent him back the finished product, which he then published in his own circles.


I would like to shake his hand, because I have seen the difference that mod makes. It truly places the Mit really close to being in the ceiling pj category! Most viewers would not know the difference between the 2, after his mod.


This was all done on the net. I have not met him, tho I would like to, at my earliest opportunity. Perhaps at CES...



Mr Bob


----------



## WTS

Hi Bob,


Where can we read this white paper?


----------



## Mr Bob

Not quite sure right now, but I know that Craig has been installing this mod on lots of the Mit RPTVs he has been calibrating, to univeral approval on the part of his owners.


I would go to the SPot and if you're a member, look it up under Mit Tweaks.


I will put it out here if I can find it. I did see it in one of the Hitachi RPTV threads, here on the AVS, a couple of months ago. There are 4 of them.


It was linked to.


Wish I still had a copy of the original, but that was years ago -



Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

MrBob, Craig is a really great guy. You cantell he has a passion for his work and is methodical and meticulos(spelling?). He calibrated my Mitsu 65" dimond series and tiold me he has been working on a mod for it back in march or april when he did that set and my marquee. He was actually very pleased with how well i maximized the raster use on my 8000 that it made is job more and less trouble(dont know what he ment but he said that







). And after wards the colors were awsome! he did sugest i go to a smaller screen but it looked much better than the old sony digital VPLWq400 i had up . I would suggest him for any rear projection callibration and front as well he Owns a sony g90 and is an expert with the lumagen scalers.once i get evrything all set up in my theater i'll have him back for a complete sytem calibration Includint hte mod to my mitsu. last time he spent the night and spent 13 hours on my marquee!!!.


http://www.cir-engineering.com/ 


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11493661
> 
> 
> Here is a couple of awesome screenshots for you guys:
> 
> 
> Art's new screen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is his old one he used for the Stack:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn that thing is HUGE!!!! Talk about a SCREENWALL!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Whoooah!







I missed that earlier. I was thinking it was the wide lens still.


----------



## WTS

Hi Bob,


Yes if you can find it and post it that would be great, thanks.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11946381
> 
> 
> last time he spent the night and spent 13 hours on my marquee!!!.
> 
> 
> http://www.cir-engineering.com/
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Why am I not surprised? Sounds like a Marquee I did in Morgan Hill a year or 2 ago.


Like a good woman, incredibly worth taking your time with...











Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/11948939
> 
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> 
> Where can we read this white paper?
> 
> 
> Yes if you can find it and post it that would be great, thanks.




Just heard from Craig. He is all ears as to who wants to see it! I directed him here, of course, so he can also see the nice things being said about him here.


http://www.cir-engineering.com/white...mod/PCBmod.htm 



Mr Bob


----------



## Art Sonneborn

2001 ASO HDDVD


----------



## CaspianM

Look really nice. I like the scope which hardly comes by as screenshots.

What camera did you use?


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11972325
> 
> 
> Look really nice. I like the scope which hardly comes by as screenshots.
> 
> What camera did you use?



Canon Rebel XTi. I did those for a thread in the HDDVD forum but I really have to practice with exposure. I spent the time taking them and didn't want to waste them just in that thread. I hate to spend lamp hours just for screen shots though.


Art


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11972542
> 
> 
> Canon Rebel XTi. I did those for a thread in the HDDVD forum but I really have to practice with exposure. I spent the time taking them and didn't want to waste them just in that thread. I hate to spend lamp hours just for screen shots though.
> 
> 
> Art



Ahhh the beauty of CRT, lamp hours?, not worried about tube hours till we hit over 10000 like Clarence and his G90.


But Art i'm still Jelouse! those look great!

I might have to go buy it(2001) today !

Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

Here are a few from this weekends Blend meet. We had a few hiccups that prevented us from getting things wrapped up in time, but we did manage to get a lot done, though we were not able to get the setup color balanced..










Anyway, I took a few shots to today, after playing around with the setup a bit more. But could not get really good shots, and I think it's because my camera is setup more to my 8500 and not this 12' wide 135:1 screen.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11972542
> 
> 
> Canon Rebel XTi. I did those for a thread in the HDDVD forum but I really have to practice with exposure. I spent the time taking them and didn't want to waste them just in that thread. I hate to spend lamp hours just for screen shots though.
> 
> 
> Art



Well exposed for sure. As far as lamp hours, you get used to it once you use the pj for a while. I get sort of tight up when I use to much time tweaking the XG feeling guilty wasting phosphor let alone thousands of dollar lamp.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11973277
> 
> 
> though we were not able to get the setup color balanced..



No worries... you're forgetting the fact that I okayed the grayscale







. By the way, those shots of Blood Diamond look amazing!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11972542
> 
> 
> Canon Rebel XTi. I did those for a thread in the HDDVD forum but I really have to practice with exposure. I spent the time taking them and didn't want to waste them just in that thread. I hate to spend lamp hours just for screen shots though.
> 
> 
> Art



Very nice, Art. Very, very nice.


I bought an XTi a few weeks ago and the screenshots from it don't yet match what my old point and shoot would consistently deliver.


I'll have to try the same exposure settings from your EXIF data...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art's Xti* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make - Canon
> 
> Model - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
> 
> ExposureTime - 1/2.5 seconds
> 
> FNumber - 5.60
> 
> ExposureProgram - Landscape mode
> 
> ISOSpeedRatings - 400
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2007:10:20 22:16:46
> 
> ShutterSpeedValue - 1/3 seconds
> 
> ApertureValue - F 5.60
> 
> ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
> 
> MeteringMode - Multi-segment
> 
> Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
> 
> FocalLength - 21 mm
> 
> CustomRendered - Normal process
> 
> ExposureMode - Auto
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Standard



Interesting setting: "Landscape" mode... seems like that probably sets focus to infinity?


21mm. Which lens?


Is Angela the artsy photographer? They really look top notch.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11973321
> 
> 
> No worries... you're forgetting the fact that I okayed the grayscale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . By the way, those shots of Blood Diamond look amazing!



Dude, it was a pleasure to meet you. I apologize, I had forgot that you were also a part of the great team we had working on this.


We enjoyed your presence. please be mindful to come to more of these events.


Thanks!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11973484
> 
> 
> Dude, it was a pleasure to meet you. I apologize, I had forgot that you were also a part of the great team we had working on this.
> 
> 
> We enjoyed your presence. please be mindful to come to more of these events.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Yep, of course! I really enjoyed watching you all setting things up, although it made me wonder why my XG has to be so complicated







. Why have two color controls when you can have four!


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11973459
> 
> 
> Very nice, Art. Very, very nice.
> 
> 
> I bought an XTi a few weeks ago and the screenshots from it don't yet match what my old point and shoot would consistently deliver.
> 
> 
> I'll have to try the same exposure settings from your EXIF data...
> 
> 
> Interesting setting: "Landscape" mode... seems like that probably sets focus to infinity?
> 
> 
> 21mm. Which lens?
> 
> 
> Is Angela the artsy photographer? They really look top notch.



Art told me about your comments regarding his pcitures..he took those...but those kinds of pictures would bore me to tears...here is what I did today!





















angela


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11973850
> 
> 
> Art told me about your comments regarding his pcitures..he took those...but those kinds of pictures would bore me to tears...here is what I did today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angela



Nice work Angela..of course having a model as beautiful as your daughter helps.


Art


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Angela Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Art told me about your comments regarding his pcitures..he took those...but those kinds of pictures would bore me to tears...here is what I did today!
> 
> 
> angela



Nice... but no fair... I've got two sons, not a photogenic daughter, so my models have been critters that I find along our neighborhood walking path:

http://crtforum.com/photography/xti-gallery.html 


The deer photos are from William's backyard at his blendzilla meet yesterday.


I've only had the camera for 2 weeks, so I'm still learning. It's a lot of fun to play with.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Incredible work Clarence !!! Those shallow depth of field images are just awesome !!!










Art


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Angela says she bows to you, oh great one ! She says she is only a neophyte.










Art


----------



## CaspianM

I was getting ready to buy the Nikon D80 but with XTi's screen shots here I am tempted.

Is the lens the one that is sold with the kit?


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11974241
> 
> 
> I was getting ready to buy the Nikon D80 but with XTi's screen shots here I am tempted.
> 
> Is the lens the one that is sold with the kit?



The two best places to learn:

photo.net : best site for general photography knowledge; forums are very good for anecdotal user reviews on just about every piece of equipment that exists. Photo of the week gallery is very inspiring.

dpreview.com : best site for technical digital camera reviews.


I can already tell you that it won't make any difference if you choose Nikon or Canon. If you don't already own Canon or Nikon gear, then flip a coin. The quality of your photos is entirely dependant on you.


Regards,

I-Liang


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11974241
> 
> 
> I was getting ready to buy the Nikon D80 but with XTi's screen shots here I am tempted.
> 
> Is the lens the one that is sold with the kit?



I'll have to look but I think the lens we have is an 18mm to 70mm zoom


Art


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11974532
> 
> 
> I'll have to look but I think the lens we have is an 18mm to 70mm zoom
> 
> 
> Art



Thanks!



> Quote:
> The two best places to learn:
> 
> 
> photo.net: best site for general photography knowledge; forums are very good for anecdotal user reviews on just about every piece of equipment that exists. Photo of the week gallery is very inspiring.
> 
> 
> dpreview.com: best site for technical digital camera reviews.
> 
> 
> I can already tell you that it won't make any difference if you choose Nikon or Canon. If you don't already own Canon or Nikon gear, then flip a coin. The quality of your photos is entirely dependant on you.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> I-Liang



I agree with the fact that it is what you can do with it.

I have had some photo gears (some pro units and lens all 35mm) but always avoided kit lens but these pictures looked good hence I asked.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/11974241
> 
> 
> I was getting ready to buy the Nikon D80 but with XTi's screen shots here I am tempted.
> 
> Is the lens the one that is sold with the kit?



You may want to check DealNews.com immediately. If you missed it, just search that forum for XTi.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11974093
> 
> 
> Nice... but no fair... I've got two sons, not a photogenic daughter, so my models have been critters that I find along our neighborhood walking path:
> 
> http://crtforum.com/photography/xti-gallery.html
> 
> 
> The deer photos are from William's backyard at his blendzilla meet yesterday.
> 
> 
> I've only had the camera for 2 weeks, so I'm still learning. It's a lot of fun to play with.





Clarence -


The pix at your link here are just stunning. I came in to my pc today and found them up there, since yesterday I was in such a rush to get out the door that I had hit your link but had not had time to see what came up.


Are all of those except the deer shots - and blending on those, tho I have never seen it yet in action, has obviously reached art form level - with your regular front-firing projector?


Camera is awesome!


Those pix of the daughter are unbelieveable as well, on all of them I have a hard time believing they are front projected, even from triple-guns CRTs -


This thread is spoiling me! Makes me want to do that CraigR mod to my 73" Mit and send in before and afters, tho the befores - as it is now - won't hold a candle to what you guys have put up here -


I have a Barco Data 800 gathering dust in my garage, don't really presently have the room/space to use it as a front pj without LOTS of time/work, but was not willing to accept the insulting prices for such things that they have on ebay right now, so am simply keeping it for future use. Haven't used it in several years, don't remember - is that pj adaptable to a point board? I don't remember whether it has one in there presently or not -


I know it throws a fine HD image, but at that time I was just shining it on a nice white wall -


You guys are inspiring me! Even tho it is the most convenient option at this time/space, soon I won't be happy with my 73" Mit!



Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/11977786
> 
> 
> Clarence -
> 
> 
> The pix at your link here are just stunning.
> 
> 
> Are all of those except the deer shots - and blending on those, tho I have never seen it yet in action, has obviously reached art form level - with your regular front-firing projector?
> 
> 
> Those pix of the daughter are unbelieveable as well, on all of them I have a hard time believing they are front projected, even from triple-guns CRTs



To clarify, the pictures in my XTi Gallery ( link ) are from my new digital camera ( Canon 400D XTi DSLR ), not screenshots from my CRT.


I'd noticed that for his latest (and greatest) screenshots, Art had used the same camera that I just bought, so I was asking about the settings he used. Angela & I got a little off-topic sharing our non-screenshot pictures from our new cameras. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## CaspianM

This is interesting.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11979002
> 
> 
> To clarify, the pictures in my XTi Gallery ( link ) are from my new digital camera ( Canon 400D XTi DSLR ), not screenshots from my CRT.
> 
> 
> I'd noticed that for his latest (and greatest) screenshots, Art had used the same camera that I just bought, so I was asking about the settings he used. Angela & I got a little off-topic sharing our non-screenshot pictures from our new cameras. Sorry for the confusion.



Thanks for clarifying that, Clarence.


Whew!



Mr Bob


----------



## Blasst




Clarence said:


> To clarify, the pictures in my XTi Gallery ( link ) are from my new digital camera ( Canon 400D XTi DSLR ), not screenshots from my CRT.
> 
> 
> I'd noticed that for his latest (and greatest) screenshots, Art had used the same camera that I just bought, so I was asking about the settings he used. Angela & I got a little off-topic sharing our non-screenshot pictures from our new cameras. Sorry for the confusion.]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> You took some great pics on your link.
> 
> 
> This is one of my favorites:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It reminds me of LOTR, Fellowship, when Gandalf and Frodo are by the fireplace, putting the ring into the fire.


----------



## Blasst

Speaking of LOTR, how about Cliff, Clarence, or anyone else, giving us some HD screenshots of any of the LOTR movies?


I'll have to pull out my Starz HD copies, and have a go with them.


----------



## Clarence

Thanks Blasst. That was taken at the blendzilla meet while the power was out and all of us were sitting around in the dark. I was taking pictures of a wrought iron fox next to the fireplace, I liked the subtle reflections and I wanted to practice some low light exposures. And I took some pictures of the oil hurricane lamp.


Then William, the blendzilla host, suggested taking pictures of the fire. It was tougher than I thought because of the high contrast... a low light scene with bright flames. But what surprised me most was the shutter speed... you really have to use a fast exposure, otherwise the flames turn into a blur. Very similar to shooting waterfalls or water fountains.


For the EXIF geeks out there, I ended up using all manual settings... MF, handheld, ISO1600, f/5.6, for 1/80 sec, 115mm zoom.


So far, IMHO the bird shots have been the most challenging. Well, maybe the deer... less common and more skittish. Flowers and bugs are easy.


I've got LOTR in HD. I'll try some screenshots tonight... I want to try Art's settings... his came out really nice using the landscape preset.


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez

Wow.


Awesome work guys. This is one huge thread filled with pics. And especially to overclkr, very nice work. Some of the pics are very, very nice. I give props to you for hard work and dedication.



.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12003950
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> Awesome work guys. This is one huge thread filled with pics. And especially to overclkr, very nice work. Some of the pics are very, very nice. I give props to you for hard work and dedication.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Thanks much!










Cliff


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11972542
> 
> 
> Canon Rebel XTi. I did those for a thread in the HDDVD forum but I really have to practice with exposure. I spent the time taking them and didn't want to waste them just in that thread. I hate to spend lamp hours just for screen shots though.
> 
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice, Art. Very, very nice.
> 
> 
> I bought an XTi a few weeks ago and the screenshots from it don't yet match what my old point and shoot would consistently deliver.
> 
> 
> I'll have to try the same exposure settings from your EXIF data...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art's Xti* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make - Canon
> 
> Model - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
> 
> ExposureTime - 1/2.5 seconds
> 
> FNumber - 5.60
> 
> ExposureProgram - Landscape mode
> 
> ISOSpeedRatings - 400
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2007:10:20 22:16:46
> 
> ShutterSpeedValue - 1/3 seconds
> 
> ApertureValue - F 5.60
> 
> ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
> 
> MeteringMode - Multi-segment
> 
> Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
> 
> FocalLength - 21 mm
> 
> CustomRendered - Normal process
> 
> ExposureMode - Auto
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Standard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting setting: "Landscape" mode... seems like that probably sets focus to infinity?
Click to expand...


I've never used that "Landscape" preset auto-mode before, but since it worked so well in your beuatiful screenshots, I tried it tonight...


(9' wide 1080P from a single Sony G90 CRT with 9,950 hours)






































The pictures came out a little overexposed (see the whites clipping in the baseball jersey), so I'm going to bracket down a notch. But not bad for an auto mode. Plus I need to square up the camera to the screen for the lower-right corner.


----------



## overclkr

WOW!!!!!!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

Clarence cheats with his new camera







.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12003950
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> Awesome work guys. This is one huge thread filled with pics. And especially to overclkr, very nice work. Some of the pics are very, very nice. I give props to you for hard work and dedication.
> 
> 
> 
> .



You're just complimenting overclkr cause you're from XS


----------



## Clarence

9' wide 1080P from a single Sony G90 CRT with 9,950 hours


Canon XTi digital camera on full-auto landscape preset mode...


----------



## wallace1234

Um, I think Clarence just upped the notch for "screen shots".


Really good.


wallace


----------



## Blasst

Damn, that shot of Corpse Bride looks like the glass is real!!


Clarence, are you still using the DW?


Looking forward to the LOTR shots. Does Cliff or Art have HD LOTR? I'd be interested in some shots on their setups also....... you guys listening?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12006407
> 
> 
> Clarence, are you still using the DW?



Yep... my screen is still DW (WilsonArt *D*esigner *W*hite countertop laminate). I love it... perfect gain, no paint, zero wrinkles, kidproof.


----------



## nashou66

Wow , That camera rocks! as well as your set up Clarence. man i need to get cracking and redo all my magnetics !


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM

Very nice shots. Excellent shadow detail.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Nice work Clarence !










Art


----------



## CaspianM

It is fair to say that Art coined the mode "Landscape" for screen shots..


----------



## dropzone7

Clarence, what movie is that with the hippo?


----------



## Clarence

Art's screen certainly provides a landscape.


Here's what the XTi says about the landscape preset mode:










Art, were you just trying every mode on the camera? It absolutely disables every other adjustment option on that camera... you can't change aperture, bracketing, ISO, shutter speed, exposure compensation. Can't change nuthin'. But it works.


In an ironic twist, I found that to mitigate overexposure, I had to crank contrast up a few more clicks. I think the light meter was reading low, so it was increasing the exposure too much. But once I gave it some more light on the screen, the camera decreased the extra exposure (over)compensation.


One small enhancement that I'm going to try next time... mirror lockup. Art, see page 91 of the XTi manual. It should further eliminate the slight shake when the SLR mirror slaps from the viewfinder to the CMOS image sensor (in addition to the IR shutter trigger I'm using).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12008895
> 
> 
> Clarence, what movie is that with the hippo?



" The Wild "


----------



## Boilermaker

Clarence - Do you know what the gain of your DW material is? Those screenshots are as good as I've seen!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boilermaker* /forum/post/12010256
> 
> 
> Clarence - Do you know what the gain of your DW material is? Those screenshots are as good as I've seen!



DW gain = 1.24


See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=214


----------



## dropzone7

I am getting a tad bit of hot spotting with my DW screen. It's not so bad that I want to take it down but I do see it at screen center and flaring out towards the bottom end of the screen. Not really sure if it can be corrected but I have been more concerned with getting the projector setup correctly first.


This shot was a few mechanical setups and convergence attempts back but I think you can see the hot spotting a little here. It's kind of haloing effect around the girl. Like I said, there are so many other things to correct that I have not really been that concerned with it.


----------



## Boilermaker

Thanks - I was hoping it was closer to 1, as I am finally beginnig the setup for a blended pair of XGLC's.

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## Clarence

Here's a test pattern so you can see the color uniformity of the DW laminate... some very slight color shift and warmspotting in the center, but consistent with other 1.24 gain materials.











720P:










1080P:









(from "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang")


----------



## Clarence




----------



## dropzone7

Wow, that text looks nice. Wish I could get that kind of focus.


----------



## CaspianM












What a perfect geometry!

Those who think and say CRT cannot be that need to see this photo.


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12005596
> 
> 
> Clarence cheats with his new camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> You're just complimenting overclkr cause you're from XS



No, I wouldn't care one tiny bit if the person is from XS or not. I complimented him(overclkr) simply because he has good pictures from his TV and did great work on taking pics. I have no interest in overclocking nurds anymore. I used to like that when I was very young..... I find them kind of ghey now. Maybe because I've gotten old.. I don't know. But I tell ya, I find these videography very impressive. Pardon me but f#@k overclockers... Don't get me wrong about me though, my HTPC is still running overclocked (Intel Conroe [email protected] 3.2 Ghz and 14 sec flat @ 1M SuperPi), but I don't go bragging off and yecking around in the computer overclocking forum. I find it sooooooooooooo nurdy. I hate that feeling. Overclocking is not my thing any more. Oh, and I used to supercool my PCs a long time ago. Good'ol ancient P3 copper at 1.45 ghz with voltage modifications and cooling and used to get some of the best benchmarks. That's quite a feat. P4 "Prescott"(the old stinky crappy heat building core) at 4.4 ghz at 0C CPU temp... yeah, pretty impressive stuff. It got to the point my mommyboard started to freeze coz my CPU got too cold... One day I realized how ghey I felt doing this. Time to move on. Please don't bring up about computer overclocking. I'm not interested. This is a TV forum with great enthuiasts hang around. meow?~'



God I love saying meow meow. meow kittie kat.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12013931
> 
> 
> No, I wouldn't care one tiny bit if the person is from XS or not. I complimented him(overclkr) simply because he has good pictures from his TV and did great work on taking pics. I have no interest in overclocking nurds anymore. I used to like that when I was very young..... I find them kind of ghey now. Maybe because I've gotten old.. I don't know. But I tell ya, I find these videography very impressive. Pardon me but f#@k overclockers... Don't get me wrong about me though, my HTPC is still running overclocked (Intel Conroe [email protected] 3.2 Ghz and 14 sec flat @ 1M SuperPi), but I don't go bragging off and yecking around in the computer overclocking forum. I find it sooooooooooooo nurdy. I hate that feeling. Overclocking is not my thing any more. Oh, and I used to supercool my PCs a long time ago. Good'ol ancient P3 copper at 1.45 ghz with voltage modifications and cooling and used to get some of the best benchmarks. That's quite a feat. P4 "Prescott"(the old stinky crappy heat building core) at 4.4 ghz at 0C CPU temp... yeah, pretty impressive stuff. It got to the point my mommyboard started to freeze coz my CPU got too cold... One day I realized how ghey I felt doing this. Time to move on. Please don't bring up about computer overclocking. I'm not interested. This is a TV forum with great enthuiasts hang around. meow?~'
> 
> 
> 
> God I love saying meow meow. meow kittie kat.




Okay...

1. I was just kidding and being friendly since I'm quite active at XS myself.

2. You shouldn't be so self conscious. I mean *gasps* if anyone on the internet knew you tweaked computers...









3. You're concerned about feeling gay when you tweak computers, yet you "love saying meow meow"







.


Back on the screenshot topic... Clarence, are you sure that's what the DW looks like in person, because that shot looks very weird. It's blue on both edges, there's a ~6" diameter circle in the center that's greenish, and then the top left is very blue. I think something is off here, because after looking at it for a while, it starts looking like a rainbow. The bottom portion looks much better though. But I'm really liking the shot of the lizard!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12014449
> 
> 
> Clarence, are you sure that's what the DW looks like in person, because that shot looks very weird. It's blue on both edges, there's a ~6" diameter circle in the center that's greenish, and then the top left is very blue.



Yep... ask anybody to post a screenshot of solid field. I think you'll be surprised at the uniformity (or lack thereof) and color shift. The higher the gain, the worse it is.


Plus, your eyes aren't used to being able to see all 9' of the screen at once. You won't notice it as much at full size because you usually only focus on a few square feet, the rest is peripheral. But in a screenshot, you're able to see the whole screen at once.


Plus, there's not a movie scene to distract you. Just a pattern.


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez

Good point, Clarence. I agree with you. Makes great sense.


Yup, you do great work on screenshots too. Props to you too.





Your pics are a little too small. You do understand(i know u do) that the pictures will look better when they are shrunk like that. Colors are very nice. But regardless, I like this shot a lot...


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12003474
> 
> 
> Speaking of LOTR, how about Cliff, Clarence, or anyone else, giving us some HD screenshots of any of the LOTR movies?



These are from my HD cable. Nowhere near as sharp as Blu-ray, and harder to pause...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12014710
> 
> 
> Your pics are a little too small. You do understand(i know u do) that the pictures will look better when they are shrunk like that.



OK, I'll try a bit larger.


First, to set the scale...










Now sit back and enjoy the movie...


----------



## Clarence




----------



## NautikaL

It should be against the law for LOTR to not be out in HD-DVD or blu-ray







. They are, without a doubt, my favorite movies. The soundtrack, plot, acting, directing, are all excellent. The books are very good as well.










Very nice colors in this shot (his eyes)!










Very nice, but I think Cliffy's stack will be killer for this shot







... lots of contrast.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12015095
> 
> 
> It should be against the law for LOTR to not be out in HD-DVD or blu-ray.






























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12015095
> 
> 
> Very nice, but I think Cliffy's stack will be killer for this shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... lots of contrast.



Cliff has the same HD cable box that I do. I know he saved LOTR. So I'm sure he'll post pics when he gets a chance. His stack really is twice as good as a single G90. It's frickin' amazing.


----------



## dropzone7

Yep, I can't wait for these to come to HD. To noobiecheese, I have seen Clarence's setup in person and can tell you that no screenshot, large or small can come close to reproducing the quality that that his G90 is throwing up on that 9' screen. It's not just a large picture but a great picture. Scary blacks that just make the whole room disappear and the most film like image I have seen. To look any better he would have to clone that projector and hang it right beside of it. He does not need that though. Light output is just right and after the first 15 seconds of a film you are hooked.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12015145



Ahhhhh... I should have known. Did you record the HD broadcasts and then burn them to HD-DVD, or did you just get bored







?


This thread made me go listen to the LOTR soundtracks







.


----------



## Clarence

They're waaaaaay too big to fit on a DL and I didn't want to split them across 3-4 discs, so I just did demo clips.


Once you get spoiled by true HDDVD and Blu-ray, the HD cable versions aren't as impressive. Still better than SD. But I can't wait until they're really available in blu or red.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12009023
> 
> 
> Art, were you just trying every mode on the camera? It absolutely disables every other adjustment option on that camera... you can't change aperture, bracketing, ISO, shutter speed, exposure compensation. Can't change nuthin'. But it works.



I'm embarassed to say yes. I tried a few others but I was not interested in spending a lot of time with manual since likely shots would have required multiple attempts and I wasn't interested ion spending the time.


I wanted an auto mode and that one seemed to result in a resonably nice exposure.


Art


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12015296
> 
> 
> I wanted an auto mode and that one seemed to result in a resonably nice exposure.
> 
> 
> Art



Reasonably nice, indeed. It's made taking screenshots 10x faster... no manual settings to check and then double check on the monitor... just spin the dial and push the shutter button. Done.


Although I really wish it would at least allow +/- exposure adjustment. It thinks it's doing me a favor by over-exposing the really dark scenes. All of my King Kong shots came out to where you could see every strand of fur... but since he was overexposed, Kong looked as gray as Gandalf.










I guess I could use RAW and then adjust the exposure. Or I could just read the landscape auto-mode EXIF settings and then re-take the same shot and limit the exposure with my own manual adjustments.


----------



## Blasst

Those LOTR shots still look great, without being Red or Blue, Clarence!


I like the fact that you put yourself in the first shot, with Gandalf, to give us scale. Damn, that is a big face shot of him.


----------



## overclkr

Awesome shots!!!!


I think I have LOTR somewhere, I'll have to see if I can dig it up. :^)


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

I wonder how long it will be until you guys will be able to post video clips of the same resolution as these screen shots? About 2 years?


----------



## NautikaL

I'm sure they could... just depends on who wants to pay for the bandwidth.


----------



## overclkr

I could do it now. Got a couple of friends with HD Cams. :^)


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12026285
> 
> 
> I wonder how long it will be until you guys will be able to post video clips of the same resolution as these screen shots? About 2 years?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...78#post9463778


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow all I can say, Wow I love that camera...


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Time for those of you who want to see the best of what CRT has to offer right now...the real deal.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=919020 


See you guys in two weeks !










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12027658
> 
> 
> Time for those of you who want to see the best of what CRT has to offer right now...the real deal.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=919020
> 
> 
> See you guys in two weeks !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Stop it Art. Your making me blush.































Cliffy


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12013931
> 
> 
> No, I wouldn't care one tiny bit if the person is from XS or not. I complimented him(overclkr) simply because he has good pictures from his TV and did great work on taking pics. I have no interest in overclocking nurds anymore. I used to like that when I was very young..... I find them kind of ghey now. Maybe because I've gotten old.. I don't know. But I tell ya, I find these videography very impressive. Pardon me but f#@k overclockers... Don't get me wrong about me though, my HTPC is still running overclocked (Intel Conroe [email protected] 3.2 Ghz and 14 sec flat @ 1M SuperPi), but I don't go bragging off and yecking around in the computer overclocking forum. I find it sooooooooooooo nurdy. I hate that feeling. Overclocking is not my thing any more. Oh, and I used to supercool my PCs a long time ago. Good'ol ancient P3 copper at 1.45 ghz with voltage modifications and cooling and used to get some of the best benchmarks. That's quite a feat. P4 "Prescott"(the old stinky crappy heat building core) at 4.4 ghz at 0C CPU temp... yeah, pretty impressive stuff. It got to the point my mommyboard started to freeze coz my CPU got too cold... One day I realized how ghey I felt doing this. Time to move on. Please don't bring up about computer overclocking. I'm not interested. This is a TV forum with great enthuiasts hang around. meow?~'
> 
> 
> 
> God I love saying meow meow. meow kittie kat.




Incredibly nurdy-nerdy? words right there


----------



## mp20748

One of my favorites:


----------



## aengus

thats one heck of a photo. damn its nice.


----------



## Mr Bob

Gee, we seem to be missing one of the last posts, the very contentious one. I was going to say something about it, but decided it was not my place. Glad the moderator swept in and took action instead.


When will they learn, to keep their contentiousness out of our consciousnesses. Got no time! Life's too short.


Go, moderator!


















Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Just got my reservations for CES last week. Just in time - even the cheapie hotels are sold out now.


Anyone going? I will be there, during the event and afterwards, and will be available for calibrations afterwards. Contact me if you want a calibration while I am in Vegas -



Mr Bob


----------



## spotmatic

Too much talk, too few pics... Come on guys, open another topic for slowchatting!










Still trying to master my Pentax K10D dSLR...


----------



## scott5626




----------



## spotmatic

LOL










Edit: damn AVSforum software... Am I not allowed to post words in UPPERCASE or adding smileys?


----------



## WTS

What's with the screen shot from a plazma Scott5626, this is for CRT projectors only!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/12044657
> 
> 
> What's with the screen shot from a plazma Scott5626, this is for CRT projectors only!



It's fine, now we all know what he's missing







.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12044941
> 
> 
> It's fine, now we all know what he's missing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I love the picture from my plasma but it's just not the same as the big screen!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12044978
> 
> 
> I love the picture from my plasma but it's just not the same as the big screen!



The picture from my RP DLP is pretty good too. I got it set to where the colors are pretty good... it's just awful in dark scenes though. I only use it to watch sports, SDTV, and 20 minutes of a movie while I eat though.


----------



## nashou66

My mitsubishi 65 inch CRT RPTV gets blacks better than my Marqee 8000 but the over all pic quality of the marqee is way way better. plus i need to reclibrate the marqee.


Maybe soem screen shot of the mitsu soon, and it is technicly a projection CRT










Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/12044657
> 
> 
> What's with the screen shot from a plazma Scott5626, this is for CRT projectors only!



Actually it's not


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12046066
> 
> 
> My mitsubishi 65 inch CRT RPTV gets blacks better than my Marqee 8000 but the over all pic quality of the marqee is way way better. plus i need to reclibrate the marqee.
> 
> 
> Maybe soem screen shot of the mitsu soon, and it is technicly a projection CRT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Try the CraigR mod, you'll find it improves the performance of your pic on your Mit. Still won't match your Marquee, but will get it a LOT closer.



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud

spotmatic, you shots look a little aqua tinted. I've seen some of your other shots and that wasn't there previously.


----------



## WTS

What do you mean actually it's not, actually it's not what? Not a plazma or not for CRTs only. My guess is you're saying it's an LCD, right.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/12047518
> 
> 
> spotmatic, you shots look a little aqua tinted. I've seen some of your other shots and that wasn't there previously.



I agree, did you change something either in the greyscale or setting of the camera?


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/12047560
> 
> 
> What do you mean actually it's not, actually it's not what? Not a plazma or not for CRTs only. My guess is you're saying it's an LCD, right.



Actually it's not just for CRTs.


----------



## spotmatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12047903
> 
> 
> I agree, did you change something either in the greyscale or setting of the camera?



It must be the camera, White Balancing is a major PITA... Will try again!


----------



## WTS

Hi lordcloud,


Well this is the CRT section not the LCD or Plazma section, so typically if we want to see some LCD shots we would go to the LCD section! But I won't hijack the thread debating this silly point!


----------



## Rayjr

Here are some shots


Camera : Canon 20D w/ Sigma 28-70mm f:2.8-4 DG



































Later

RayJr


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12064278
> 
> 
> Here are some shots



Very nice Ray! Are these from your DLP tv or RS1?


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12064820
> 
> 
> Very nice Ray! Are these from your DLP tv or RS1?



90% sure that's the RS1. I have a samsung DLP (albiet a 42"), and its black levels are no where near that good







.


----------



## Rayjr











RS1....sorry...did not notice that it was a CRT thread till I posted here.

But...they are Screen shots










RayJr


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12064886
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RS1....sorry...did not notice that it was a CRT thread till I posted here.
> 
> But...they are Screen shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RayJr




Digital shots are most welcome here... it's good to compare. Just because this thread is in CRT land doesn't mean we won't kill any of you digital guys (or will we?







).


----------



## Rayjr

If I may ask....how does the color look to you guys?

I used a special way of taking the picture...first I created a custom white balance from a 100IRE on the screen..then used that as the base white balance for the shot in the camera.

Your input please


RayJr


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/12063538
> 
> 
> Hi lordcloud,
> 
> 
> Well this is the CRT section not the LCD or Plazma section, so typically if we want to see some LCD shots we would go to the LCD section! But I won't hijack the thread debating this silly point!



Its's not just for CRT shots.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Hey folks,


I want to become part of this thread. Hehehe!


Here are my screenshots this evening from my humble 1272 crt projector.


About to kill T-rex










Looks like I need to work on my blue










Aeon Flux










Resident Evil










Hiro's only love










Copycat's eye from Heroes. Camera is angled 45 degrees and 2 ft away from screen.










Another shot of Copycat










Same picture as the first but front shot










Save the cheerleader










hopefully guys, my screenshots are ok.










EDIT:


Looks like you guys are including what type of camera was used.

Camera is Canon S400. Light setting set to Auto. Effect set to Auto. 10 sec timer to minimize camera movement.


----------



## dropzone7

v1rtu0s1ty, those look really nice! What size is your screen?


----------



## overclkr

Those are the best looking shots from a 1272 that I have ever seen. Great job!


Cliff


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Thanks Cliff for the kind words.










Sonynut taught me a lot on the setup and calibration on my other threads.

Thread 1 
Thread 2 


Dropzone, screen is blockout cloth which will soon be replaced by Wilsonart DW.


Thanks again!


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12067225
> 
> 
> Thanks Cliff for the kinds words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dropzone, screen is blockout cloth which will soon be replaced by Wilsonart DW.
> 
> 
> Thanks again!



Nice! I used to have a blackout cloth screen and am now using the Wilsonart DW. What size is your screen?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12067250
> 
> 
> Nice! I used to have a blackout cloth screen and am now using the Wilsonart DW. What size is your screen?



The current physical dimension of the cloth is 120"x54". The projected images above are at 92"x52".


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12067276
> 
> 
> The current physical dimension of the cloth is 120"x54". The projected images above are at 92"x52".



Okay, that makes sense. I was thinking that it looked to be about 96x54 which is the size I used to use. I'm using 108x61 now on the DW material and it's really too large for my XG but I like the size. Looks like you did a great job with convergence. I wish I could get my projector looking that nice. I think you are getting the max possible potential from your 1272 which looks really impressive from your shots.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12067315
> 
> 
> Okay, that makes sense. I was thinking that it looked to be about 96x54 which is the size I used to use. I'm using 108x61 now on the DW material and it's really too large for my XG but I like the size. Looks like you did a great job with convergence. I wish I could get my projector looking that nice. I think you are getting the max possible potential from your 1272 which looks really impressive from your shots.



Yep, Sonynut taught me a lot. He helped me so much with all the tweaks!


----------



## nashou66

v1rtu0s1ty those are very very nice shots! You definitly set it up really nice. I remeber saying you had another sony pj too, are you going to try the under over stack?


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12067707
> 
> 
> v1rtu0s1ty those are very very nice shots! You definitly set it up really nice. I remeber saying you had another sony pj too, are you going to try the under over stack?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Thanks!


I was actually planning to do edge blending once I get it up and running. However, I have to replace 5 intermittent parts(E board, dead power supply, DE DB, DD and Y). I heard about stack and looks like it's very cool. I can try it as well.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12064961
> 
> 
> If I may ask....how does the color look to you guys?
> 
> I used a special way of taking the picture...first I created a custom white balance from a 100IRE on the screen..then used that as the base white balance for the shot in the camera.
> 
> Your input please
> 
> 
> RayJr



The color looks fine. The question is: Is it the color YOU see on YOUR screen. And yes, white balance seems to be the biggest problem. Nice work.


----------



## Rayjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12068369
> 
> 
> The color looks fine. The question is: Is it the color YOU see on YOUR screen. And yes, white balance seems to be the biggest problem. Nice work.



Thank you for the reply...and YES...that is exactly what I see on the screen.

I was never able to get the white balance just right...till a photo buddy of mine turned me on to the custom WB feature of my camera..and how to use it right.


Thanks again

RayJr


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12068489
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply...and YES...that is exactly what I see on the screen.
> 
> I was never able to get the white balance just right...till a photo buddy of mine turned me on to the custom WB feature of my camera..and how to use it right.
> 
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> RayJr



I have that feature on my new camera but have never used it. Maybe I will give it a try on my next round of screen shot attempts. I need all the help I can get!


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12068489
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply...and YES...that is exactly what I see on the screen.
> 
> I was never able to get the white balance just right...till a photo buddy of mine turned me on to the custom WB feature of my camera..and how to use it right.
> 
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> RayJr



I also mentioned that procedure here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post11498874


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/12070914
> 
> 
> I also mentioned that procedure here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post11498874



Awesome! I will try this tonight.


----------



## Sonynut

Thanks for the honorable mention Virtuosity! I wish mine was set up so I could post some shots..


What's worth mentioning is that Neil is new to the hobby(been running just a mere couple of weeks). He deserves quite the bit of credit for that










Soon though I'll be able to post some shots from my upcoming 1272 stack







. Sure it won't be 2 G90's lol but it should be quite nice


----------



## CaspianM

v1rtu0s1ty, You have mastered the art of set up and screenshot! Zooming in a bit is just what you did not.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sonynut* /forum/post/12071296
> 
> 
> Thanks for the honorable mention Virtuosity! I wish mine was set up so I could post some shots..
> 
> 
> What's worth mentioning is that Neil is new to the hobby(been running just a mere couple of weeks). He deserves quite the bit of credit for that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soon though I'll be able to post some shots from my upcoming 1272 stack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sure it won't be 2 G90's lol but it should be quite nice



Cool! I'm excited to see how a 1272 stack look like.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> v1rtu0s1ty, You have mastered the art of set up and screenshot! Zooming in a bit is just what you did not.










Thanks buddy! And yep, I noticed that my shots were small. I will try some new screenshots tonight!


----------



## crt nuts

Just a small observation of some posts on this thread.. quite funny to me










Guys are shooting down the digitals , yet here all the screen shots are taken with digital cameras...whaaaattt.














Most exellent shots I might add. I'm turning green.


M


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/12074377
> 
> 
> Just a small observation of some posts on this thread.. quite funny to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys are shooting down the digitals , yet here all the screen shots are taken with digital cameras...whaaaattt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most exellent shots I might add. I'm turning green.
> 
> 
> M



That's the best line I've seen so far!!!


----------



## overclkr

Fantastic Four Silver Surfer 1080P

































































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Cliff do you have a thing for Jessica Alba? its ok I do too!







Take soem shot of her from Into the blue!!


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

overclkr, that is phenomenal!


I tried copying your projector's flesh color on my 1272 but never made it close to that. Sonynut, is it something that is a limitation on our 1272 or are there areas that I also need to change. I was only tweaking BIAS and GAIN?


----------



## Clarence

Those are great, Cliff!


----------



## Sonynut

Neil, Cliff's machines had new tubes not too long ago, not to mention they are two of the best machines on the planet







. The biggest factor is tube wear. If the green you have is even a little worn, your machine will not be able to reproduce fleshtones like Cliff's.










The other difference is that Cliff's setup has been calibrated by an ISF certified calibrator, Ken Whitcomb. I don't have the equipment to do a professional style calibration, so I have no experience in that area. I do my best to get full brightness and true blacks with the simple adjustments I have suggested.


A fellow forum member(who has migrated to Curt's site) by the name of PJ Moore here(PJMoore at Curt's) passed on a technique involving a digital camera and Photoshop to better calibrate a projector, though I will warn you it is a lengthy process. If you are interested, I can pass it along










True calibration of any CRT(with proper adjustment they WILL reproduce true to life color) requires professional style calibration, but you may get close with alot of patience and PJ Moore's process. My suggested adjustments will get very close as I have seen with my 1272 and minty tubes, though.


----------



## cinema mad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12078054
> 
> 
> overclkr, that is phenomenal!
> 
> 
> I tried copying your projector's flesh color on my 1272 but never made it close to that. Sonynut, is it something that is a limitation on our 1272 or are there areas that I also need to change. I was only tweaking BIAS and GAIN?



While there is no doubt that you have done an excellent job with your calibration, The sony CRT 1272 air coupled projectors are just not in the same league as the legendary 9inch liquid coupled sony G90's,especialy if you use color corrected element's. I think you would be hard pressed to get any where near cliffy's color accuracy....


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sonynut* /forum/post/12079387
> 
> 
> Neil, Cliff's machines had new tubes not too long ago, not to mention they are two of the best machines on the planet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The biggest factor is tube wear. If the green you have is even a little worn, your machine will not be able to reproduce fleshtones like Cliff's.



Ah, that explains why. My green has wear.











> Quote:
> The other difference is that Cliff's setup has been calibrated by an ISF certified calibrator, Ken Whitcomb. I don't have the equipment to do a professional style calibration, so I have no experience in that area. I do my best to get full brightness and true blacks with the simple adjustments I have suggested
> 
> 
> A fellow forum member(who has migrated to Curt's site) by the name of PJ Moore here(PJMoore at Curt's) passed on a technique involving a digital camera and Photoshop to better calibrate a projector, though I will warn you it is a lengthy process. If you are interested, I can pass it along
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True calibration of any CRT(with proper adjustment they WILL reproduce true to life color) requires professional style calibration, but you may get close with alot of patience and PJ Moore's process. My suggested adjustments will get very close as I have seen with my 1272 and minty tubes, though.



Thanks for letting me know about this tecnique. And it's a YES,







send me the instructions, I will follow it.


Neil


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12079652
> 
> 
> Ah, that explains why. My green has wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for letting me know about this tecnique. And it's a YES,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> send me the instructions, I will follow it.
> 
> 
> Neil




Neil,

Wear or not, you should be proud of the job you have done with that little 1272! I think your shots look great and I am very envious!


----------



## Sonynut

I agree











Neil, I will email you that process later today.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12077578
> 
> 
> Cliff do you have a thing for Jessica Alba? its ok I do too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take soem shot of her from Into the blue!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I LOVE the screenshot showing the JUNK IN THE TRUNK.










What a killer little hottie huh?










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Thanks for the compliments guys.










Last night was just practice. Let me see what I can drum up to top it.










Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12080012
> 
> 
> I LOVE the screenshot showing the JUNK IN THE TRUNK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a killer little hottie huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Except that's not her from the back.Look at the size of the arms and back muscles on that "solid ***** stand in".


Art


----------



## mark haflich




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12081496
> 
> 
> Except that's not her from the back.Look at the size of the arms and back muscles on that "solid ***** stand in".
> 
> 
> Art



Great, just great. Do you think that is a dude?


Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12082242
> 
> 
> Great, just great. Do you think that is a dude?
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I don't think so but if it is he looks great in a wedding dress and has a nice ass.










Art


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12080023
> 
> 
> Thanks for the compliments guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night was just practice. Let me see what I can drum up to top it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Go big dog, GO! I can only watch and dream...... Are there g90's in the afterlife? Maybe then I'll get one..


wallace


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rayjr* /forum/post/12064961
> 
> 
> If I may ask....how does the color look to you guys?
> 
> I used a special way of taking the picture...first I created a custom white balance from a 100IRE on the screen..then used that as the base white balance for the shot in the camera.
> 
> Your input please
> 
> 
> RayJr



Post some more pics please, they look great so far but need more


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/12087530
> 
> 
> Go big dog, GO! I can only watch and dream...... Are there g90's in the afterlife? Maybe then I'll get one..
> 
> 
> wallace



Transformers HD DVD 1080P


----------



## overclkr

Shot's start here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12099868


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




























































































Cliffy


----------



## Zues




----------



## gerall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12046066
> 
> 
> My mitsubishi 65 inch CRT RPTV gets blacks better than my Marqee 8000 but the over all pic quality of the marqee is way way better. plus i need to reclibrate the marqee.
> 
> 
> Maybe soem screen shot of the mitsu soon, and it is technicly a projection CRT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Not taking screen size into account, any opinions on the comparison of RP vs. FP CRT in a light controlled basement? I am considering purchasing a used mits 65" with the 9" guns. Would a FP produce a better picture, and if so, could I do it with an 8" set and not have to spring for a 9" set like the Marquee or a G90? Even the 1272 pictures posted were impressive. BTW, I can get the mits used for a SONG. Thanks a million.


----------



## Sonynut

Lol too bad it's probably more work than its worth to take the innards from the 9" Mits and convert them over for FP...


----------



## AVWERKS

The guns in RP sets are designed for short throw (short necks) and probably wouldnt work correctly with HD series lenses designed for Front projection throw ratios.


Just a guess on my part however


Regards

David


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gerall* /forum/post/12111964
> 
> 
> Not taking screen size into account, any opinions on the comparison of RP vs. FP CRT in a light controlled basement? I am considering purchasing a used mits 65" with the 9" guns. Would a FP produce a better picture, and if so, could I do it with an 8" set and not have to spring for a 9" set like the Marquee or a G90? Even the 1272 pictures posted were impressive. BTW, I can get the mits used for a SONG. Thanks a million.



I love my Mitsubishi but my Marquee 8000 and 8500 are both better. get a 8 inch marquee.


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I also have a Mitsubishi WS48313. It's also a crt rptv. It's sharper than my Sony 1272. But I love this 1272 since picture is bigger, colors are very nice as well. Here are my new screenshots this evening using "white eval mode on camera" and some minor bias/gain tweaking, hehehe.

































































EDIT:


I resized the pictures too small earlier and forgot to crop 'em. Here is the same capture but at 1200 pixels wide. The colors are almost exactly the same. That's how I really see it on my screen. It's not sharp but when I'm 10+ ft away from screen, it looks sharp. The colors are what really makes my jaw drop


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12105488




Dial down the sharpening controls.


It looks like less than ideal if the screenshot is representative of what you actually see on your screen.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/12074377
> 
> 
> Just a small observation of some posts on this thread.. quite funny to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys are shooting down the digitals , yet here all the screen shots are taken with digital cameras...whaaaattt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most exellent shots I might add. I'm turning green.
> 
> 
> M




Just a reminder, the screenshot that is the cover of my website was taken with a Canon Photura 35 mm still cam, the one that looks - and is held - like a videocam, but is not. Very unique cam, with a lens in front of the flash coupled to the zoom, for zooming and narrowing the flash beam at the same time as the zoom lens, for greater flash reach! Kinda unique, have never seen another cam do that. With that feature I can take flash shots a lot farther away than normal, when flash is needed.


You can actually see some of the lint on the negative the shot was taken from, at the edges.


Not a perfect picture, of course, but pretty sharp, considering it is from a 65" RPTV.


Have not taken the time to discover how you guys are getting such incredible shots up here, but once inside my site, clicking the Screenshots link down below will show you a slightly zoomed version of the shot itself, if you're curious as to what a 35mm film shot can look like on a CRT based set.



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

I'm Bac!


----------



## stefuel

I'm glad someone posted some pics from Transformers. I thought it was my setup. Flesh tones suck big time in this movie. But damn, ain't she a knock-out. To bad her skin is so bad. Oh yea, that yellow Camaro is going to be mine










Chip


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

hi folks,


I'm attaching a new picture similar to the AeonFlux frame that Mike posted. I just wanted to show to people that are in the market for a crt projector and are in budget that even with an entry level projector like this Sony 1272, it can make them happy. However, we can clearly see how Mike's projector is sharper than my 1272. You can easily see this from the eyebrows. Mine is washed out, his is clean/clear. But yeah, for the price of $200-$300, you will be surprised.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## plain fan

So who will be the first to post pictures from the recent BD Pixar releases?


----------



## Ninja77

I'm interested to know how accurate these screenshots are to the real thing, do they represent fairly accurately what is on the screen or dont they do them justice?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/12140366
> 
> 
> So who will be the first to post pictures from the recent BD Pixar releases?



what movie is it?


----------



## nuttall_chris




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12141102
> 
> 
> what movie is it?



Ratatouille?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nuttall_chris* /forum/post/12141140
> 
> 
> Ratatouille?



Also the new Pixar shorts disc.


A collection of 13 Pixar shorts: The Adventures of Andre & Wally B, Luxo Jr., Red's Dream, Tin Toy, Knick Knack, Geri's Game, For the Birds, Mike's New Car, Boundin', Jack-Jack Attack, Mater and the Ghost Light, One Man Band, and Lifted.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12144848
> 
> 
> Also the new Pixar shorts disc.
> 
> 
> A collection of 13 Pixar shorts: The Adventures of Andre & Wally B, Luxo Jr., Red's Dream, Tin Toy, Knick Knack, Geri's Game, For the Birds, Mike's New Car, Boundin', Jack-Jack Attack, Mater and the Ghost Light, One Man Band, and Lifted.



And Cars, too.


----------



## plain fan

Car, Ratatouille, and the Shorts disc were all released today. Some people received them early.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ninja77* /forum/post/12140932
> 
> 
> I'm interested to know how accurate these screenshots are to the real thing, do they represent fairly accurately what is on the screen or dont they do them justice?



It looks way better in person. But differences are mostly in color since there's the variable of the camera and the variable of the computer screen that can cause distortion.


----------



## mp20748

Sometimes the shots are a bit too colorful..


----------



## Shoujiki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12125942
> 
> 
> hi folks,
> 
> 
> I'm attaching a new picture similar to the AeonFlux frame that Mike posted. I just wanted to show to people that are in the market for a crt projector and are in budget that even with an entry level projector like this Sony 1272, it can make them happy. However, we can clearly see how Mike's projector is sharper than my 1272. You can easily see this from the eyebrows. Mine is washed out, his is clean/clear. But yeah, for the price of $200-$300, you will be surprised.



Hey v1rtu0s1ty


To be honest with you, I think your pic detail is almost as good! Sure the sharpeness isnt exactly the same but, try bumping down your brightness a tad...and upping the color a few notches. I think it will give the picture a bit more punch and more depth. As at the moment, the brightness looks too high, and is giving that grayed washed appearance. Just my 2c! Fantastic job on it though, looks great! I'm going to be setting my 1272 up again soon and will take into consideration some of your advice!!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shoujiki* /forum/post/12150403
> 
> 
> Hey v1rtu0s1ty
> 
> 
> To be honest with you, I think your pic detail is almost as good!



Great to hear.







Thanks. What I do is extract a single frame from the movie and then I save it as a png file. I load this extracted frame, the png file, using Photoshop along with the same frame projected to my screen, then I tweak BIAS/GAIN/CONTRAST/BRT. But I think I need to calibrate my laptop too so that it can be as close to a reference picture.











> Quote:
> Sure the sharpeness isnt exactly the same but, try bumping down your brightness a tad...and upping the color a few notches.



Would that be BIAS or GAIN?


Oh, I noticed that Heroes in NBC is really sharp. I really can't believe the sharpness I'm seeing. Other HD broadcast like Chuck is not even close.



> Quote:
> I think it will give the picture a bit more punch and more depth. As at the moment, the brightness looks too high, and is giving that grayed washed appearance. Just my 2c! Fantastic job on it though, looks great! I'm going to be setting my 1272 up again soon and will take into consideration some of your advice!!



I will do some tweaking tomorrow since right now my kids are watching Ratatouille.


Yeah, please post screenshots too.


Thanks for the advice again!










Neil


----------



## Shoujiki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12150889
> 
> 
> Would that be BIAS or GAIN?



Yeah overall brightness control is what I meant, not the White Balance which is what those controls refer to. I think the white balance/grayscale looks pretty good. For me (and not neccesarily to your liking) i like to compromise my brightness for black level. Just makes the picture so much more dynamic and it takes away that "projected image" look. So yeah give it a shot, throw the brightness down..make the room totally black and see what you think...the picture wont be as bright of course, but i think it looks great.

I shall post some screenies in a sec .. just gotta upload em.


----------



## mp20748

*Xbox 360 @ 1080P -> Lowly 8500 Ultra*


----------



## mp20748

last night I went after few from Kong's night scenes. My camera did not do too well capturing all the light, but I was amazed at the level of detail it captured from the screen. And it also did well showing the night light in those dark scenes:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12156434
> 
> 
> last night I went after few from Kong's night scenes. My camera did not do too well capturing all the light, but I was amazed at the level of detail it captured from the screen. And it also did well showing the night light in those dark scenes:




Very nice big dog!


Looking foward to hanging this weekend!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Panasonic AE2000 10ft Wide 1080P SMX:


































































































Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

I did not know you had gone digital Cliff! Are you just testing?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12158216
> 
> 
> I did not know you had gone digital Cliff! Are you just testing?




LOL, yes. Casey brought his new toy over tonight for us to check out.


One of the things I LOVE about HDMI. Just plug it in and go.










BTW, for the price, that PJ is AWESOME.


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

Those PotC/Depp pics from Casey's d!%!#@| look great. Excellent skin tones, nice shadow detail in his dreads.


Cliff and I are always interested in seeing d!%!#@|$ get better and better (and cheaper) every 6 months... hopefully in a few years they'll finally become "good enough"


----------



## PeriSoft

Playing around with the temporary setup running a 1271 tonight. HTPC, some with rather too much sharpening, some about right, and 'yo yo girl cop' was no post at all, just regular bilinear scaling. Mainly I played with the color and gamma first; the 1271 is NOT set up optically at all and the convergence is rough at best. Obviously not going to look so hot compared to all the highdef shots being bandied about, but I can still try to make the colors right, damnit!










So, here we go. First, the ubiquitous Fifth Element. Not superbit, by the way. Haven't grabbed a copy yet. I did wave a superbit DVD at my wife the other day (there were like 3 superbit DVDs at some thrift place for five bucks a piece, but none of them remotely interesting to me) saying, "This is what they look like! Superbit! Bruce Willis! Superbit! Bruce Willis!"


Anyway.




















Yo Yo Girl Cop. Don't ask. Don't get the movie if you expect all of it to look like these shots. It's just... yeah. It's Japanese.




















Grand Prix. Spread across two DVDs; *GORGEOUS* cinematography, probably the best looking DVD I've seen to date. I didn't get the best scenes 'cos Zoom Player likes to die a lot with FFDShow now; not sure why.





























There ya go. Remember, don't look at the focus. FWIW, 1271q, 1184x666, 60" 16:9, 65 contrast (not sure of brightness, turned it up until I could see it hurt the black level and then backed it off).


----------



## NautikaL

Wow those shots are really good for a digital







. How are the blacks in person?


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12158879
> 
> 
> Wow those shots are really good for a digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . How are the blacks in person?



I agree. Are the blacks really as black as they look in those shots Cliff?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Here is an update folks. I finished my 10'x54" blockout cloth temporary screen. Placed the screen at the breakfast area so I can test it. I was worried that it will be so blurry and that the picture quality will be unacceptable. I was wrong, it was still ok. After doing the 120"x54" screen, I learned that 54" is short and that my 1272 can still go beyond. So, I will be rebuilding my screen again once I order a Wilsonart DW. New dimension will be 120"x67".


Anyways, here is it again but @ 10 feet wide fed by linux at 1920x1080, 72hz interlaced mode. The projector's lens is 13 ft from screen.


Jennifer and Me, just did few convergence since I was so excited. Source frame is 1920x1080, 1.78










King Kong, 2.4










Ratatouille 1080p trailer, 2.4





































Bee Movie, 1.78 but I cut it










Resident Evil, 2.4










Aeon Flux, 2.4










Heroes - cheerleader from last episode, 1.78


----------



## mp20748




----------



## owl1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12158216
> 
> 
> I did not know you had gone digital Cliff! Are you just testing?



How the hell can you guys tell digital so easily???? What are the tells that give it away?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *owl1* /forum/post/12159451
> 
> 
> How the hell can you guys tell digital so easily???? What are the tells that give it away?



The biggest tell was when Cliff posted the model of the digital projector he was using:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Panasonic AE2000


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12159008
> 
> 
> I agree. Are the blacks really as black as they look in those shots Cliff?



Obviously, the blacks are not as good as CRT, but they are acceptable to me given all of the other things the Panny does so well.


Great colors out of the box, and my guess was about 8 foot lamberts on my 10ft wide screen which is unheard of for a 165 watt bulb. Pretty damn impressive.


It is SHARP but not false sharp. No screendoor from 4ft.


The Panny will be probably down to about 2200 NEW in about 6 months. That is a steal.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12159481
> 
> 
> The biggest tell was when Cliff posted the model of the digital projector he was using:



How is the stay going so far big dog?????


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

Going good! I'm ready for the weekend! I'll give you a call tonight.


----------



## mark haflich

On a digital, the blacks always get better as you increase the size of the screen. The blacks unlike a CRT are not essentially 0, there is a finite black ref level usually something less than .05 or so, much lower for the RS1. If you increase the size of the screen, the amount of black err light leaking doesn't change, it just gets spread out over a larger area making the gray blacks, blacker in reference level. With a CRT the blacks are alawys good regardless of the screen size. Put that new Panny on a smaller screen and the blacks won't be as good. Still OK though depending on how you weightthe blacks against everything else. Cliffy, on your screen what did you prefer? The RS1 or the Panny? Blacker or brighter? Ah to get the best of both worlds. A CRT stack with gamma or a CRT blend.


----------



## dropzone7

You are right Cliff, for the price of that Panny it would be hard to complain much! It looks really nice in those shots.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12159746
> 
> 
> You are right Cliff, for the price of that Panny it would be hard to complain much! It looks really nice in those shots.



Honestly, I'm totally impressed too by the performance of that Panny he mentioned.


Cliff, other than the black, what else did you notice?


Awesome shots!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12159008
> 
> 
> I agree. Are the blacks really as black as they look in those shots Cliff?



They are ok, but not CRT.










But like I always say when it comes to the latest digitals, there are things the Panny does that are better than CRT.










For the price though, that projector is awesome.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12159979
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'm totally impressed too by the performance of that Panny he mentioned.
> 
> 
> Cliff, other than the black, what else did you notice?
> 
> 
> Awesome shots!



Thanks.










It's very sharp but not too sharp. Very much like LCOS with the "smooth screen" option. No screen door from 4ft.


For a 165 watt bulb, it cranks light extremely well. Good colors out of the box. Lot's of lens shift.


Oh, and it's cheap for a 1080P digital.










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Have a great weekend Cliffy. Give my love to the family, both yours and the CRTers in attendance


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12165511
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's very sharp but not too sharp. Very much like LCOS with the "smooth screen" option. No screen door from 4ft.
> 
> 
> For a 165 watt bulb, it cranks light extremely well. Good colors out of the box. Lot's of lens shift.
> 
> 
> Oh, and it's cheap for a 1080P digital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



By the way, I'm not familiar with this, what is lens shift?


Thanks!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Thats pretty amazing given the price. Can't wait for the RS75







or what ever it is by the time I replace mine. How loud is it? I know no where near your stack but..


----------



## mp20748

Don, can you post some shots from your RS1 here?


----------



## mark haflich

Lens shift allows you within the lens shift limits to move the picture thrown by the projector up or down and sometimes side to side in order to center the image on the screen. This gives flexibility in the vertical placement of the projector in relation to the center of the screen and if the projector is not mounted at the horizontal center and horizontal lens shift is available,to move the image a few inches in either direction. The system s mechanical meaning the image is thrown by the whole chip or chips rather than say a keystone adjustment which sacrifices some of the chips surface area.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12167050
> 
> 
> Don, can you post some shots from your RS1 here?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11497266


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/12166954
> 
> 
> Thats pretty amazing given the price. Can't wait for the RS75
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or what ever it is by the time I replace mine. How loud is it? I know no where near your stack but..



I don't know. The stack was on the whole time.










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Unlike a CRT where the already so low black level really doesn't noticeably change with screen size, showing a digital on a screen as large as Cliffy's as say compared to a 110" or 123"D 1.78, the black ref levels will decrease improving the blacks. The concept is the digital leaks and what it leaks is spread out over a larger area.


I guess I have become the black sheep of the CRT family.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12173482
> 
> 
> I guess I have become the black sheep of the CRT family.



Since I'm the only one who doesn't have you on his ignore list I'll have to answer that ,yes you are.

















Art


----------



## stefuel

He's not on my ignore LIST, but I do sometimes ignore him










Chip


----------



## NautikaL

What Mark said was correct though... Just think about it. If you put up an all white image and somehow shined it at a 4000" wide screen, I'm pretty sure the image would be close to black. Likewise, if you use a digital on a 11' wide screen, the blacks are going to be much better than on a 8' wide screen.


----------



## mark haflich

The next screen Art puts up might be that wide but he would have to do a multiple multiple stack.


----------



## Mr Bob

 http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/ 


This Home Theater article about 1080i vs. p is incredible, but I had one question about it.


It states that all TVs sold in the US have a 60 Hz refresh rate, or the frame changes its material 60 times/second.


Agreed.


But doesn't that only apply to TVs PRESENTLY sold in the US? Isn't 480p and 1080i at a 30 Hz refresh rate?


The main focus of that part of the article was about 3:2 pulldown with 60 Hz, or more recently, 3:3 pulldown with 72 Hz.


But much was made of 3:2 pulldown years ago by excellent writeups in Secrets of Home Theater, where progressive DVDPs were just attaining ramming speed in the marketplace. They were applying the 3:2 pulldown technology to the 30fps frame rate of video, compared to the 24fps rate of film. And the only TVs capable of playing 480p back then - aside from 720p plasmas and expensive scalers - were the 1080i CRT RPTVs, and the much rarer ones that also played 720p separately and independently of 720p (I have the last model they ever did that with, the year 2000 Panny).


So is 60 Hz refresh rate the same as 60fps, and if so, was it not 30fps for many years, until the advent of 1080p in fixed pixel, which is pretty much all that is now being manufactured in the HDready realm?



Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence

here are some screenshots we took at Cliff's last night:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=159


----------



## fjv23

haha


----------



## spotmatic

CRT rules. Period.





































Source: The Patriot Blu-Ray from PS3 > HDfury > BarcoReality 909.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/12158606
> 
> 
> Playing around with the temporary setup running a 1271 tonight. HTPC, some with rather too much sharpening, some about right, and 'yo yo girl cop' was no post at all, just regular bilinear scaling. Mainly I played with the color and gamma first; the 1271 is NOT set up optically at all and the convergence is rough at best. Obviously not going to look so hot compared to all the highdef shots being bandied about, but I can still try to make the colors right, damnit!



Color saturation seems spot on.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/12187603
> 
> 
> CRT rules. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: The Patriot Blu-Ray from PS3 > HDfury > BarcoReality 909.



STUNNING!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

This is very very impressive.


----------



## CaspianM

The images CRT thows out are highly photogenic!


----------



## tomson1973

Hello,

HD DVD King Kong Toshiba E1


----------



## Doug Baisey

I was going to post on this Mel face shot. Its about the best one I have seen so far that wasn't a cartoon or 'slide' so to speak. Really is a nice screen shot. Post #848 is also very good also. Thumbs up guys. Doug


----------



## WTS

Hi,


Great shots there spot, that close-up of Mels face is awesome. I looked at Cliffs stack, great pics but it looks like there is some gray scale shading problems in the corners of the HDNet test pattern where the 40 circles are. Other than that they look great too. Also it looks like your brightness is turned down a notch or 2 too far as the gray scale ramp isn't showing the division between the last black squares, unless of course that is the camers fault.


----------



## hdtvme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12180006
> 
> http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/
> 
> 
> This Home Theater article about 1080i vs. p is incredible, but I had one question about it.
> 
> 
> It states that all TVs sold in the US have a 60 Hz refresh rate, or the frame changes its material 60 times/second.
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> But doesn't that only apply to TVs PRESENTLY sold in the US? Isn't 480p and 1080i at a 30 Hz refresh rate?
> 
> 
> The main focus of that part of the article was about 3:2 pulldown with 60 Hz, or more recently, 3:3 pulldown with 72 Hz.
> 
> 
> But much was made of 3:2 pulldown years ago by excellent writeups in Secrets of Home Theater, where progressive DVDPs were just attaining ramming speed in the marketplace. They were applying the 3:2 pulldown technology to the 30fps frame rate of video, compared to the 24fps rate of film. And the only TVs capable of playing 480p back then - aside from 720p plasmas and expensive scalers - were the 1080i CRT RPTVs, and the much rarer ones that also played 720p separately and independently of 720p (I have the last model they ever did that with, the year 2000 Panny).
> 
> 
> So is 60 Hz refresh rate the same as 60fps, and if so, was it not 30fps for many years, until the advent of 1080p in fixed pixel, which is pretty much all that is now being manufactured in the HDready realm?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



While it was true until recently, it can no longer be said that all TVs sold in the US have a 60Hz refresh rate. Some LCD TVs will refresh at 120Hz, etc.


Refresh rate = vertical sync frequency = 60Hz for NTSC, but is variable for ATSC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_Standards 


60Hz refresh on a progressive format = 60 fps.

60Hz refresh on an interalced format = 30 fps.


----------



## overclkr

Bastages.


Time for me to bust out the big guns.

















Cliffy


----------



## Kipp Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12220785
> 
> 
> Bastages.
> 
> 
> Time for me to bust out the big guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




and Cliffy has some big ones...


----------



## overclkr

Round One:
































































































Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomson1973* /forum/post/12216818
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> HD DVD King Kong Toshiba E1



Awesome! Esp. for a non-photobucket'd shot -


Yours too, Cliff. Absolutely!



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvme* /forum/post/12220163
> 
> 
> While it was true until recently, it can no longer be said that all TVs sold in the US have a 60Hz refresh rate. Some LCD TVs will refresh at 120Hz, etc.
> 
> 
> Refresh rate = vertical sync frequency = 60Hz for NTSC, but is variable for ATSC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_Standards
> 
> 
> 60Hz refresh on a progressive format = 60 fps.
> 
> 60Hz refresh on an interalced format = 30 fps.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12223243
> 
> 
> My only reservation is a couple of typos - which seem a bit out of character for such an impressively in-depth article - and the fact that he calls AC-3 by what Dolby Digital does: 5.1. You can't do 5.1 on AC-3, which was the first time Center channel had been added to mono rear surround sound. Which was a total 4 channels, and stayed that way for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Nope,DD _is_ AC3


Art


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12224058
> 
> 
> Nope,DD _is_ AC3
> 
> 
> Art



Oh. I thought they just naturally phased out AC3 upon the advent of DD. So DD is a part of the AC3 protocol?


Thanks for the update!



Mr Bob


----------



## kschmit2

Dolby Digital (or its abreviation DD) are just marketing names that were not accepted by ATSC.


The standard is called ATSC A/52 (currently A/52 Rev. B):

Digital Audio Compression Standard (AC-3, E-AC-3)

Revision B
http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_52b.pdf 


(AC-3 = Adaptive Transform Coder 3)


----------



## spotmatic

Second round










The picture quality of this movie (The Patriot) varies a lot. Some scenes are very soft.





























And some from Open Season:


----------



## Energeezer

Wow spot--Nice

Cliffy--Looks like you have some competition.

Where is Art?

Lets see the digital response.


----------



## tomson1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12223101
> 
> 
> Awesome! Esp. for a non-photobucket'd shot -
> 
> 
> Yours too, Cliff. Absolutely!
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Hi Mr Bob,


I don't understand the phrase you wrote "Esp. for a non-photobucket'd shot" i'm not used to it.


The picture is photographed with a Nikon-Cam. A Marquee 9500


Tom


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomson1973* /forum/post/12226477
> 
> 
> Hi Mr Bob,
> 
> 
> I don't understand the phrase you wrote "Esp. for a non-photobucket'd shot" i'm not used to it.
> 
> 
> The picture is photographed with a Nikon-Cam. A Marquee 9500
> 
> 
> Tom



I have yet to master this, and I do intend to, but there are sites where you can upload your pix and they will send them to sites like this in all their magnificence, without the limits this site has on direct uploads.

www.photobucket.com is one I have heard of. There are others -



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Energeezer* /forum/post/12225957
> 
> 
> Wow spot--Nice
> 
> Cliffy--Looks like you have some competition.
> 
> Where is Art?
> 
> Lets see the digital response.



Yes, they look GREAT!!!!! I'm going to get some more this weekend to post.










Cliffy


----------



## donaldk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12165499
> 
> 
> They are ok, but not CRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But like I always say when it comes to the latest digitals, there are things the Panny does that are better than CRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the price though, that projector is awesome.
> 
> 
> Cliffy



My guess would be that CRT would have more difficulty properly portraying those lights on the black sky, in that shot of the lady descending from the stairs.


----------



## overclkr

Round Three thanks to Clarence from my meet last weekend:








































































Cliffy


----------



## holyhd

Overclkr


Your screeshots were awesome.


What Projector do you use


----------



## overclkr

Sony G90 STACK:


----------



## Clarence

I should've had you stand next to the screen (or wheeled you in front of the screen passed out in your chair














)... in those pictures it's easy to forget that your screen is 10' wide. It looks as sharp as any TV.


You should've seen the grin on Cliff's face when Ken got perfectly resolved scanlines on the stack at 1080P... stacked


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12229944
> 
> 
> 
> You should've seen the grin on Cliff's face when Ken got perfectly resolved scanlines on the stack at 1080P... stacked



Dude, that was a serious moment.







Awesome!


Two G90's shining a white field on the screen at the same time and SCANLINES at 1080P. It was like being in paradise.










What an awesome weekend.........


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

A few shots today from Williams 12' wide Blend setup.

*Sony Blu-ray 1080/24P -> Moome HDMI Switcher -> HDMI to HD-SDI converter into Blendzilla*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Blasst

Clarence, and Cliff.


We need to get you guys to do some screen shots of "Flash Point"

I posted some shots over on that thread in the Blu-ray media forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=933332&page=3 

Scroll to post #73 for the screen shots.


----------



## overclkr

Next HD DVD:













































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12247955
> 
> 
> Clarence, and Cliff.
> 
> 
> We need to get you guys to do some screen shots of "Flash Point"
> 
> I posted some shots over on that thread in the Blu-ray media forum.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=933332&page=3
> 
> Scroll to post #73 for the screen shots.



Incredible!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!!


Ok, Clarence or I will pick it up.


That looks like a SMOKIN' transfer.


The shots I did of Next were a big soft for my taste.


Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Anyone get Shrek 3 yet? If so pls post I'm going to try to pick it up today, dam cold.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12247977
> 
> 
> Incredible!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Ok, Clarence or I will pick it up.
> 
> 
> That looks like a SMOKIN' transfer.
> 
> 
> The shots I did of Next were a big soft for my taste.
> 
> 
> Cliff




Looking forward to it.


I picked up my copy from our man Tony, at Xploited, just in case you needed directions.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12247955
> 
> 
> We need to get you guys to do some screen shots of "Flash Point"



Awesome, didn't know this movie was available, just ordered it.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12255814
> 
> 
> Awesome, didn't know this movie was available, just ordered it.



Gino,



If you are a Hong Kong movie fan, you are going to enjoy this one.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12256007
> 
> 
> Gino,
> 
> 
> 
> If you are a Hong Kong movie fan, you are going to enjoy this one.










what projector did you use for this?


What a screenshot!


----------



## owl1

What is in the reproduction chain?


----------



## Clarence

"Ratatouille", Blu-ray PS3 HDMI 1080P, 9' wide, single G90 with 10,033 hours:


----------



## dropzone7

Wow, I was wondering when we were going to see shots from this movie. Very nice...that shotgun barrel looks like it's coming out of the screen.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Clarence! THAT'S IT!!!! CRT WINS!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE SCREENSHOT WAR!!! HAHAHA!!!!


I am so amazed, stunned and shocked by the picture quality especially with the windows on the building and the cars on your second picture. They look real!!!


Hopefully, we can afford G90 in the future too.


----------



## Clarence

I wanted to watch the timer roll over to 10,000 but it happened while I was at Cliff's meet last weekend.


Here's 10,034 hours during football yesterday:


----------



## WTS

And those tubes have never been replaced? WOW. I can only hope that my Cine 8 looks equal at those hrs for a 8"er.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12262933
> 
> 
> I wanted to watch the timer roll over to 10,000 but it happened while I was at Cliff's meet last weekend.



Awesome!!!!!


I'm sure you would have much rather been here though.










Last weekend was a BLAST!!!! Looking foward to the day we can hang out again.










BTW, those shots are AMAZING. Make them bigger!!!!!!










Cliff


----------



## mark haflich

Clarence. At least you won't miss your 10,000 AVS post or Cliffy's 10,000 AVS posted screen shot,


----------



## overclkr

10,000?










Hehe, Planet Earth:


----------



## overclkr
















































Cliffy


----------



## bomrat

gees i need to learn to take screen shots. here is my lil ol 10pg on a 103" silverstar


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/12264800
> 
> 
> gees i need to learn to take screen shots. here is my lil ol 10pg on a 103" silverstar



Um big dog, could you please wait until me and my camera come to your place and help you put a G90 on the ceiling?











Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

BTW, WOW is this planet earth AWESOME. Some of my sharpest shots yet are coming soon.........


Cliffy


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

It's been a long time since I last posted my screenshots. Here are my new screenshots taken from today's Heroes.


----------



## lordcloud

My first attempt. I of course have to say, what I see is far superior to what my camera captures. But these aren't horrible. I hope. Both of King Kong with a 7 megapixel Kodak easy share. Toshiba HD-A3-Hitachi CRT RPTV 1080i


----------



## nashou66

A few from Close encounters not optimized totally and still my crappy Fuji f10 camera @ 400 speed. tripod on top of marquee i think shook it a little.















































Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud

A little bigger


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12256777
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what projector did you use for this?
> 
> 
> What a screenshot!



Those two screenshots were with my 61" Samsung 1080P DLP set.

This is why I requested Cliff and Clarence to do this movie right with their setups.


For comparisons sake, here is the same shot with my Benq 7700, 720P projector on a 116" screen.


The Samsung waxes the Benq , yes we have the size and resolution factors, along with much higher contrast ratio, color purity,etc.


Thats why the big dogs need to throw up this movie and see what they think.










Plus I need a new projector.










Benq PJ first:


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Lookin' good MP!


Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Man mike your dark sceans rule! nd with no gamma right? WOW!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12270114
> 
> 
> Those two screenshots were with my 61" Samsung 1080P DLP set.
> 
> This is why I requested Cliff and Clarence to do this movie right with their setups.
> 
> 
> For comparisons sake, here is the same shot with my Benq 7700, 720P projector on a 116" screen.
> 
> 
> The Samsung waxes the Benq , yes we have the size and resolution factors, along with much higher contrast ratio, color purity,etc.
> 
> 
> Thats why the big dogs need to throw up this movie and see what they think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I need a new projector.





Dude your shots are awesome. Very nice.


Cliff


----------



## NautikaL

I don't want to come across as picky, but why is the hairline green? Color balance issues, or is that rainbow? They look great nonetheless!


----------



## overclkr

More Planet Earth:


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Hehe, cool.


Even more Planet Earth:

































































Looks like MP and I are on the same page tonight.










Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

Where on earth do you guys find the time!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12274892
> 
> 
> Man mike your dark sceans rule! nd with no gamma right? WOW!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Yep, no gamma!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12276157
> 
> 
> Where on earth do you guys find the time!



LOTS of wine and a drunk determination to stay up and finish the job.

















Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

And only doing a stack or a single projector instead of a blend may give you six more months of free time. Gino. You know what I mean. Plus not having a super hottie wife like you do Gino but then again Cliffy has one of those too. At least its only 4 G90s and one wife and not 4 wives and 1 G90.


----------



## zinc03gt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12270114
> 
> 
> The Samsung waxes the Benq , yes we have the size and resolution factors, along with much higher contrast ratio, color purity,etc.



I may be in the minority, but I actually prefer the BenQ in some of those shots. Particularly the shot of the tower with the caution tape on it. It seems the Sammy has the contrast a little overblown and the colors a bit oversaturated? Maybe it's just my crappy monitor though.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zinc03gt* /forum/post/12281769
> 
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I actually prefer the BenQ in some of those shots. Particularly the shot of the tower with the caution tape on it. It seems the Sammy has the contrast a little overblown and the colors a bit oversaturated? Maybe it's just my crappy monitor though.



If you could see them in person, you would prefer the Samsung.

The Sammy is in Eliabs starter settings.


Digital NR - OFF

DNIe - Off

Mode - Movie

Contrast - 40

Brightness - 45

Sharpness - 0

Color - 45

Tint - G50/R50

Color Tone - Warm2


Cliff and Clarence I'm sure have their copy of "Flash Point" on the way.


----------



## Energeezer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12283268
> 
> 
> Cliff and Clarence I'm sure have their copy of "Flash Point" on the way.



Hell Yeah

I want a comparo


----------



## overclkr

This will have to do for now:


----------



## overclkr




































































































Cliffy


----------



## Energeezer

That'll do it----for now!!!!

Thanks Cliff


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12123838
> 
> 
> I'm Bac!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12125942
> 
> 
> hi folks,
> 
> 
> I'm attaching a new picture similar to the AeonFlux frame that Mike posted. I just wanted to show to people that are in the market for a crt projector and are in budget that even with an entry level projector like this Sony 1272, it can make them happy. However, we can clearly see how Mike's projector is sharper than my 1272. You can easily see this from the eyebrows. Mine is washed out, his is clean/clear. But yeah, for the price of $200-$300, you will be surprised.



And mine from my RP. Not as nice, but not horrible.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## Mr Bob

Hitting F11 helps see these better -

 

 

 


Smaller version -

 

 


Batman in the middle, ascending, almost invisible -


----------



## jcmccorm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12277722
> 
> 
> LOTS of wine and a drunk determination to stay up and finish the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Most of my CRT tweaking sessions have been accomplished in this manner.


Kids in bed. Wife in bed. Scotch. Tools. Let's do this!


Cary


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Steveohoes

Some of these screen shots are simply amazing. I hope i can get mine to be good as these.

Keep up the good work


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steveohoes* /forum/post/12363410
> 
> 
> Some of these screen shots are simply amazing. I hope i can get mine to be good as these.
> 
> Keep up the good work




Really keeps the ole' suspension of disbelief going, eh?











Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

For anyone who has a question about what 7" guns are capable of -


I know the baddies of this pic - the non-linearity of the fleshtones, the white crush - but aside from the cam being too close to the screen for the fleshtones to be linear, and the shutter/exposure settings on the cam not being worked with, resulting in the white crush -


Set that aside for a minute and just look at the crispness.


That's my 65" Panasonic RPTV, with 7" guns, camera set at 6'.


It may or may not completely resolve a 1080 test pattern, haven't checked, but I think those guns are absolutely having fun in there...


OTA 1080i freeze frame from 6 years ago, CBS in all its glory...



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Brian Feldman

Sony G-90 on a 92" wide 1.85:1 home made screen



Dan Fogelberg in concert RAVE HD












Cindy Lauper in concert Rave HD












HD-DVD Matrix (Woman in Red Dress)












HD-DVD Matrix (Red pill or Blue)












HD-DVD Matrix (Agents) Larger Version for Testing purposes


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12365956
> 
> 
> G-90 on a 92" 1.85:1 *home made screen*



Details?


----------



## overclkr

Ahhhhhh yes, we found another G90 winner! F'ing AWESOME!!!!!!










Off to the theater to take some REALLY good shots.










Cliffy


----------



## Brian Feldman

I have gone through so many screens I am ashamed to admit!!










After all of the hype of laminate material, I decided to go and test some. I purchased some DW (Designer White) laminate and had it cut to my exact dimensions. After installing this material, although the image was a bit brighter than what I had before, there was noticable hotspotting issues with it. It was then recommended to me to apply a satin clear coat finish to the screen to dull the "sheen" that was causing the hotspotting. After doing this, the picture quality to me was not to my liking.


Long story short, I spent the next 3 months experimenting with different paint formulas and finally found a mixture that was perfect for me. Higher gain than the plain DW laminate and next to ZERO hotspotting. The paint is a custom blend automotive type base coat that required me to spray it on with a binks type automotive gun. I applied 3 evenly spaced coats of the paint and let it dry. I proceeded to install the screen and to my amazement, the picture never looked as good.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12365974
> 
> 
> Details?


----------



## NautikaL

More details please







. What kind of paint exactly? What did you paint onto? Any pics? Cost? Time taken? I'm having uniformity issues with my DW.


----------



## overclkr

Live Free Die Hard


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliffy


----------



## Brian Feldman

Simply awesome screenshots Cliffy!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12366679
> 
> 
> Simply awesome screenshots Cliffy!!



Thanks Brian, but I like this one the best so far.


























Cliff


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12366394
> 
> 
> I have gone through so many screens I am ashamed to admit!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all of the hype of laminate material, I decided to go and test some. I purchased some DW (Designer White) laminate and had it cut to my exact dimensions. After installing this material, although the image was a bit brighter than what I had before, there was noticable hotspotting issues with it. It was then recommended to me to apply a satin clear coat finish to the screen to dull the "sheen" that was causing the hotspotting. After doing this, the picture quality to me was not to my liking.
> 
> 
> Long story short, I spent the next 3 months experimenting with different paint formulas and finally found a mixture that was perfect for me. Higher gain than the plain DW laminate and next to ZERO hotspotting. The paint is a custom blend automotive type base coat that required me to spray it on with a binks type automotive gun. I applied 3 evenly spaced coats of the paint and let it dry. I proceeded to install the screen and to my amazement, the picture never looked as good.



Yes man! We are begging!!! C'mon!!!










Tell us the brand, the values and where to order! Don't be shy sharing the secrets so we can be the next guinea pigs!!!










Step by step instructions too please.










By the way, awesome shot on Morpheus!!!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12366689
> 
> 
> Thanks Brian, but I like this one the best so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff









































Wow. Sharpness, inky blacks, shadow detail, and fleshtones all in one! And there's just something about the reflection in his glasses that makes the image look even more spectacular.


By the way Cliffy, what's your audio setup? Those Die Hard shots beg for some audio.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12366712
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Sharpness, inky blacks, shadow detail, and fleshtones all in one! And there's just something about the reflection in his glasses that makes the image look even more spectacular.
> 
> 
> By the way Cliffy, what's your audio setup? Those Die Hard shots beg for some audio.



NautikaL, the Morpheus screenshot is Brian's! I'm very shocked too!!!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12366748
> 
> 
> NautikaL, the Morpheus screenshot is Brian's! I'm very shocked too!!!



Ahhhhh... I shoulda known Cliffy would try to take credit for one of the best shots







. But wow, now I want to hear the details about that screen even more!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12366712
> 
> 
> By the way Cliffy, what's your audio setup? Those Die Hard shots beg for some audio.



Hehe, going to pick up my final upgrade to my audio tomorrow. FINALLY my center will match left and right.


Klipsh KLF30 left center and right. Pioneer 94THX receiver/preamp paired with an ATI 1800 7 channel lover.










Two SVS PB12 Plus/2 subs along with Klipsch RS-35 Surrounds........










All this in a 14X18 room. Loving it.......


Cliffy


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12366752
> 
> 
> Ahhhhh... I shoulda known Cliffy would try to take credit for one of the best shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . But wow, now I want to hear the details about that screen even more!



Yeah, hopefully Brian will tell us his secret tomorrow!!!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12366764
> 
> 
> Hehe, going to pick up my final upgrade to my audio tomorrow. FINALLY my center will match left and right.
> 
> 
> Klipsh KLF30 left center and right. Pioneer 94THX receiver/preamp paired with an ATI 1800 7 channel lover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SVS PB12 Plus/2 subs along with Klipsch RS-35 Surrounds........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All this in a 14X18 room. Loving it.......
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Why not try IB for your sub? I've seen very few people moving from SVS Ultra to IB setup. I'm upgrading to IB too. Hopefully, my SVS gets sold soon at audiogon. Mine is a 20-39 PCi. I don't mean to down SVS, in fact, I really love my SVS so much. Honestly, today, I was watching some demo scenes like "The Haunting" and "Flight of the Phoenix", man, my kitchen and family room(40'x14'), the walls, the picture frames were shaking and vibrating so much! The bottom of my pants was waving a little too due to the air. I love the feeling!


I would just like to try what the IB folks have been talking about for many years! I'm very sure that with the SVS you chose, it will really WOW you!!!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12366764
> 
> 
> Hehe, going to pick up my final upgrade to my audio tomorrow. FINALLY my center will match left and right.
> 
> 
> Klipsh KLF30 left center and right. Pioneer 94THX receiver/preamp paired with an ATI 1800 7 channel lover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SVS PB12 Plus/2 subs along with Klipsch RS-35 Surrounds........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All this in a 14X18 room. Loving it.......
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Sounds nice







. You're missing some snake oil though







. I just ordered the Klipsch Synergy F3s for my left and right. Then I'm going to use 2 radioshack speakers for the surround. They were only around $70 for the pair, but they sound great to my ears - lots of bass and punchy. Oh, and I have a Yamaha HTR series receiver. Gotta start somewhere though.


Now if only my headphone system and knowledge of headphones/headphone amps/sources/etc translated to speakers. I have Sennheiser HD580s and a tube amplifier btw... it's fun







.


----------



## Brian Feldman

Thanks again cliff... I took a bunch of these shots over the past few months and had posted a few here and there. Once I noticed how popular screen shots got, I decided might as well post them...


There truly are some shots posted in the thread that are truly awe inspiring!!


Now I am testing a RS-1 along with my G-90 so it make this kind of stuff soooo much fun!!














> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12366689
> 
> 
> Thanks Brian, but I like this one the best so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff


----------



## Brian Feldman

Not a secret at all... I just tried so many paint formulas from som many manufacturers and its been awhile since I did it. I still have some of the original mix of paint. Now I have to figure out what supplier it was from.


Keep in mind that his paint requires a eurothane reducer 2.5:1 so that actual paint goes a long way. The down side to this is that it requires you to use a professional quality gun with sufficient air pessure. It also requires breathing protection and once you finish painting, you can not move the screen for at least 4-5 hrs. The paint is a eurothane enamel and can be heat (IR) or air dried. I just let it air dry for a day and then VERY carefully transported it to its final hanging place on the wall.


Since this is base coat, there is NO protection so if one chooses to go this route, you can not spray amonia products on it and keep all hands off of it!! It was designed to have clear coat applied on top to provide depth and protection. Since we are not using the clear coat, there is no protection so it has to be handled very carefully.


If it needs cleaning, I take a cloth rag with some warm water and a little soap and very GENTLY rub the screen until the spot comes out. Again, it is NOT a durable surface!!


It is by far the best screen that I have ever used and was not very expensive either. Practically every other screen that I viewed before had hotspotting issues/color uniformity shifts..etc..etc... This one has none of those things... just not as durable so it probably would not be best for people with young childeren that love to touch everything and put marks on things...









> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12366765
> 
> 
> Yeah, hopefully Brian will tell us his secret tomorrow!!!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## WTS

Hi Brian,


Can you give us a list of what screens you have used before, that way maybe we can get some kind of idea how good this new one really is.


Thanks


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12365956
> 
> 
> Sony G-90 on a 92" wide 1.85:1 home made screen



Top notch!


Canon 20D. Which lens?

Aperture and Focal Length show up as 0 in EXIF. Do you recall which settings you used?


----------



## Brian Feldman

In the past I tried a Draper M2500 which hotspotted something awful.... Then I went to a Vutec unity gain screen which was good but the image lacked depth. At that point, I started to experiment with various paints that most on the forum used such as the SW bright white, Behr UFW..etc..etc.. Used that for a while and still wanted more. In other words, I wanted the benifits of a higher gain screen without the hotspotting issues that they were giving.


I then switched to the DW laminate as there were so many people using this and claiming that it was the best thing since sliced bread.. I have a local warehouse distributor where I was able to get this material very inexpensively so I bought about 5 sheets of my exact screen dimensions and started to experiement.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/12368609
> 
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> 
> Can you give us a list of what screens you have used before, that way maybe we can get some kind of idea how good this new one really is.
> 
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Brian Feldman

Thanks Clarence.... The camera I used for the images is a Canon 20d with a Nikkor 35-135mm Zoom @ F3.5. I put the camera into full manual mode.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12369163
> 
> 
> Top notch!
> 
> 
> Canon 20D. Which lens?
> 
> Aperture and Focal Length show up as 0 in EXIF. Do you recall which settings you used?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12366901
> 
> 
> Not a secret at all... I just tried so many paint formulas from som many manufacturers and its been awhile since I did it. I still have some of the original mix of paint. Now I have to figure out what supplier it was from.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that his paint requires a eurothane reducer 2.5:1 so that actual paint goes a long way. The down side to this is that it requires you to use a professional quality gun with sufficient air pessure. It also requires breathing protection and once you finish painting, you can not move the screen for at least 4-5 hrs. The paint is a eurothane enamel and can be heat (IR) or air dried. I just let it air dry for a day and then VERY carefully transported it to its final hanging place on the wall.
> 
> 
> Since this is base coat, there is NO protection so if one chooses to go this route, you can not spray amonia products on it and keep all hands off of it!! It was designed to have clear coat applied on top to provide depth and protection. Since we are not using the clear coat, there is no protection so it has to be handled very carefully.
> 
> 
> If it needs cleaning, I take a cloth rag with some warm water and a little soap and very GENTLY rub the screen until the spot comes out. Again, it is NOT a durable surface!!
> 
> 
> It is by far the best screen that I have ever used and was not very expensive either. Practically every other screen that I viewed before had hotspotting issues/color uniformity shifts..etc..etc... This one has none of those things... just not as durable so it probably would not be best for people with young childeren that love to touch everything and put marks on things...



Thanks! It's fine with me even if it's hard to do at least it's documented here. This way I can keep on going back to the thread to pull the mixture values.


Please let us know.


Thank you so much in advance!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12369613
> 
> 
> Thanks Clarence.... The camera I used for the images is a Canon 20d with a Nikkor 35-135mm Zoom @ F3.5. I put the camera into full manual mode.



These shots are really nice. Incredible saturation and detail for screenshots.


----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## overclkr

Very nice Bob!!!!!!!


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Yummy shots........


Cliffy


----------



## Brian Feldman

Some GREAT screen shots that everyone is posting!!



I took a few more shots tonight of a few movies..


Pojector: Sony G90

Camera: Canon 20D with Nikkor zoom lens/camera in full manual mode

Screen: 92" Wide 1.85:1 A/R Homemade



Movie "Disturbia" (BluRay)












Movie "Disturbia" (BluRay)












Movie "Shawshank" off of DVR (Dish Network)












Movie "Poltergeist" off of DVR (Dish Network)


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12374447
> 
> 
> Some GREAT screen shots that everyone is posting!!
> 
> 
> 
> I took a few more shots tonight of a few movies..
> 
> 
> Pojector: Sony G90
> 
> Camera: Canon 20D with Nikkor zoom lens/camera in full manual mode
> 
> Screen: 92" Wide 1.85:1 A/R Homemade



Awesome Brian!!!!!! So what do you think of the G90 vs. the RS1? Are you using a scaler to the G90?


Cliff


----------



## wkosmann

Hey Mike;


You need to turn the contrast down a bit, to compensate for the massive light output of your new balanced neckboard design.










William


PS: Great screen shots everyone!!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12373142



Mike, I think your shots could be improved with some optics cleaning.


See how the white section "hazes out" at the top of these pix, at the border of the top black bar, in this 2.35:1 scenario? Classic sign of the need for optics cleaning, which runs rampant on CRT RPTVs, but also can apply to FPTVs. It can apply to any CRT machine, all of which use 30KV, which turns your optics - your lens surfaces, and on RPTVs your mirror(s) - into gigantic dust magnets. See my website for more details on this.


I once calibrated a Runco 800 series FP up at Harbin Hot Springs in Clear Lake, and it had gotten so dusty in that area that dust was literally caked on the bottom half of the coolant covers under the lenses, making the top half of the pic even more bleary than the bottom half, and literally almost impossible to really see. Removing the lenses and seeing that, I shoulda taken pictures, it was so bad! Doing a very careful optics cleaning of all surfaces concerned showed a blazing improvement afterwards.


Yours isn't nearly that bad, but shows the same signs. See the difference between your top edges and mine, against the black, in my last post, above, of Dexters' mom's killer taped down. My optics were just freshly cleaned last month, after the unit not even being a year old yet -



Love your blacks, and the delicious shadow detail you've got in there -











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12376043
> 
> 
> Mike, I think your shots could be improved with some optics cleaning.
> 
> 
> See how the white section "hazes out" at the top of these pix, at the border of the top black bar, in this 2.35:1 scenario? Classic sign of the need for optics cleaning, which runs rampant on CRT RPTVs, but also can apply to FPTVs.
> 
> 
> I once calibrated a Runco 800 series FP up at Harbin Hot Springs in Clear Lake, and it had gotten so dusty in that area that dust was literally caked on the bottom half of the coolant covers under the lenses, making the top half of the pic even more bleary than the bottom half. Removing the lenses and seeing that, I shoulda taken pictures, it was so bad! Doing a very careful optics cleaning of all surfaces concerned showed a blazing improvement afterwards.
> 
> 
> Yours isn't nearly that bad, but shows the same signs -
> 
> 
> 
> Love your blacks, and the delicious shadow detail you've got in there -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Thanks Bob. I was wondering where that came from or what it was. I'll check the lenses out later. I'm even wondering if it's in between the lens and the tubes themselves.



That great low end performance is coming from a non LC 8" projector, with NO gamma correction. yep, absolutely NONE.. and as of this morning, I've even bypassed the BLUE gamma circuit on the video module. I plan to put 9" LC tubes in it this month.


Oh, I here I'm the king of "blacks" round here..


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12371469
> 
> 
> Very nice Bob!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Cliff



I've been hoping to hear that from you, Cliff!


Who hoo! More coming -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12376143
> 
> 
> Thanks Bob. I was wondering where that came from or what it was. I'll check the lenses out later. I'm even wondering if it's in between the lens and the tubes themselves.



It could very well be. The coolant covers sometimes use convex transparent covers, which contain the liquid, sometimes flat covers, which also contain the liquid. Unless the liquid itself is contaminated - which I doubt - there will prolly be lots of dust sucked onto the covers, plus on the rears of the lens packs.


The best way to see is to look from a steep angle at the surfaces to see if you can make out the thick layer of dust on them. If the unit is on, have a strong bright set of video images on there to backlight it - or a freezeframe of a bright image - or when unit is off, use a flashlight shown at a steep angle to them, again while viewing the lens or cover surface from a steep angle yourself, 90 degrees away from where the light is coming from.




> Quote:
> That great low end performance is coming from a non LC 8" projector, with NO gamma correction. yep, absolutely NONE.. and as of this morning, I've even bypassed the BLUE gamma circuit on the video module.



Help me with the lingo here, what does non LC mean?




> Quote:
> Oh, I'm the king of "blacks" round here..




Ooh yeah, Masterchief...













Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud

I believe non LC means non liquid cooled, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Brian Feldman

I was fortunate enough to be able to "borrow" an RS-1 from a buddy of mine and have been using it off and on for the past 2 weeks.


I have tried different digital projectors over the past few years to "play" around with and see what improvements they have made. During this time I have tried the first DILA units, LCD, DLP and now the RS-1 which to my understanding is a DILA.


I placed the RS1 on a small table that I setup so that I could quickly install this projector. Setup was extremely easy and fast. Basically I just place the unit on the table, plugged it in, connected my dvi cable to the hdmi input w/adapter, rotated the lens to match my screen size, focused and I was 90 percent there!!


In my configuration, I have all of my source material connected to a Lumagen HDQ and output at [email protected] 60hz.


I found that the unit had about a 1 pixel m/c and after fumbling around with the menu, I found were I could move the pixels to get the best converg. Now, I am just about perfect with some areas having less than 1/2 pixel m/c in red. At my seating distance, this is never a factor and is not seen while viewing test shots or actual viewing material.


Picture quality: The PQ from the RS1 is by far the best I have ever seen on a digital projector. Nice deep colors, (though a bit over-saturated for my taste) and extremely sharp. Black level was excellent as long as the picture had other content/scenes in it. The FTB was its biggest weakness IMO as it was more of a dark grey than black. I was able to reduce the color saturation in the RS-1 menu to make the image more natural looking but at the point where it was more "correct"


Video material looked stunning and very lifelike. The one thing about this projector is that to me, it is BRIGHT!! Contrast set at 0 and bulb on "normal", according to my CA-6, the unit was outputting aprox 22 ft/lamberts of brigtness on my 92" Wide screen.


I did notice some "digital noise" in the image at times and the PQ did not seem as "butterly smooth" as the G90.


After watching the RS-1 for a few days with video and film content that I was familiar with, I switched back to the G-90. The first thing that hits you like a brick wall is the lack of brightness!! I found myself checking my contrast settings just to make sure that everything was normal!!! After just a few minutes though, your eyes adjust and everything is back to normal. On my G-90, I measured 10.7 ft/lamberts so you can see that there is a HUGE difference in brightness compared to the RS1.


For me, I still prefer the image quality of the G-90. The image is smoother with no digital noise or "lag" and offers a more "realistic" immersive viewing experience. It does near perfect FTB which is a very important thing for me; Especially when watching something with a lot of dark content like Star Wars. For example, in the opening sequence of every SW film, after the text rolls off the screen and the scene pans down to show the vastness of space with just a star field, the G-90 immerses you making you believe that you are in the depths and coldness of space. With the RS-1, the starfield is visible but everything is lit up which ruins the experience for me.


Overall the RS-1 is an incredible projector and does a lot of things very well. For your average home theater enthusiast, I think they would be thrilled to have this projector. For those that are used to a high end CRT, things are a bit different. It really boils down to what ones priorities are when it comes to owning a projector. I prefer the best possible image quality with perfect FTB and for me, there still is no replacement for the G-90.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12375463
> 
> 
> Awesome Brian!!!!!! So what do you think of the G90 vs. the RS1? Are you using a scaler to the G90?
> 
> 
> Cliff


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12377066
> 
> 
> Overall the RS-1 is an incredible projector and does a lot of things very well.
> 
> 
> I prefer the best possible image quality with perfect FTB and for me, there still is no replacement for the G-90.




















You should see the G90 on a Silverstar. You would shchit your pants.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

That Rat Movie Part One:

































































Cliff


----------



## huggy1

Dude

I just joined this forum to say WELL F**K ME Your screenshots rock dude,I've gotta go get me one of those g90 thingys and mount the f**ker on my ceiling,oh wait,that might be a challenge,I think I'll floor mount


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huggy1* /forum/post/12381161
> 
> 
> Your screenshots rock dude,I've gotta go get me *one* of those g90 thingys and mount the f**ker on my ceiling



To play in Cliff's league, you gotta go get *two* of those G90 thingys


----------



## Clarence

Single G90 with 10,060 hours...

PS3 preview of "Resident Evil", 1080P:


----------



## huggy1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381262
> 
> 
> To play in Cliff's league, you gotta go get *two* of those G90 thingys



Damnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!Now I'll have to mount two of the buggers,Hell yeah!

Well have a threesome


----------



## Clarence

PS3 preview of "Memoirs of a Geisha", 1080P:




















some dark scenes for MP:


----------



## Clarence

"Meet the Robinsons", PS3 Blu-ray 1080P HDMI, 9' wide...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381262
> 
> 
> To play in Cliff's league, you gotta go get *two* of those G90 thingys



Hehe, he said thingys.










Hope all is well with you and the famdamily big dog........










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

"Pixar Shorts" Blu-ray:


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12381310
> 
> 
> Hope all is well with you and the famdamily big dog........



I've been way too busy at work lately. I finally got a chance to sit down and enjoy some of the new blu-rays that I ordered... including Gilmour.










I've been enjoying all the screenshots here, so I figured I'd take a few tonight for you.


Hope you had a great birthday and Thanksgiving.


----------



## huggy1

Clarence

Is that 10k one the tubes?If so how?I mean I've seen tubes at 3k that need replacing.I know crt's are rated at 10k hours however I've never heard of anyone actually getting there without tubes being like burt toast.


----------



## Clarence

Yep... 10,000+ hours on the original tubes. They had 5K when I got it.


10K from a set of tubes is easily achievable if you have it setup properly and don't crank brightness and contrast to max.


I usually watch at C=70. But lately I've been bumping that up to C=75 (or C=80 when Cliff visits), since I've got replacement tubes waiting on the shelf. But I figure I've still got thousands more hours on these original tubes, even with my sons playing PS3 and X360 every day.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381356
> 
> 
> I've been way too busy at work lately. I finally got a chance to sit down and enjoy some of the new blu-rays that I ordered... including Gilmour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been enjoying all the screenshots here, so I figured I'd take a few tonight for you.
> 
> 
> Hope you had a great birthday and Thanksgiving.



I looked at the back of the Gilmour and found no info as whether or not it was shot in 1080p. Any idea? did not even say if it was 16x9.


----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## Mr Bob

  


Don't it make you just want to reach out and touch someone?












Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/12381541
> 
> 
> I looked at the back of the Gilmour and found no info as whether or not it was shot in 1080p. Any idea? did not even say if it was 16x9.


 http://www.rememberthatnight.com/specs.htm 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rememberthatnight.com* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Video
> 
> High Definition *1080i* 59.94
> 
> Codec: VC-1
> 
> Average Bitrate: 30mb/s
> 
> Peak Bitrate: 39mb/s



But http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=493 says


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blu-ray.com* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Video
> 
> Video codec: VC-1
> 
> Video resolution: *1080p*
> 
> Aspect ratio: 1.78:1


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381356
> 
> 
> I've been way too busy at work lately. I finally got a chance to sit down and enjoy some of the new blu-rays that I ordered... including Gilmour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been enjoying all the screenshots here, so I figured I'd take a few tonight for you.
> 
> 
> Hope you had a great birthday and Thanksgiving.



Yeah, Gilmour is sweet. Awesome sound.










I did have a nice holiday. Thanks for asking big dog.










Off to work......


Cliff


----------



## CaspianM

Thanks. Still wondering if it is 16x9.

I have seen 1080 material presented in 4x3 with some graphic as side bars.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/12383324
> 
> 
> Still wondering if it is 16x9.



Answered above...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=493 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blu-ray.com* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Aspect ratio: 1.78:1*


----------



## dropzone7

Man, I have to get a Blu Ray player of some sort. I'm tired of missing out on my Disney favorites and now with Gilmour, well I'm just a huge PF fan so I think a PS3 might be the way to go for now.


----------



## kschmit2




----------



## Brian Feldman

Absolutely STUNNING shots Clarence!! These G-90's are simply incredible!!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381324
> 
> 
> "Pixar Shorts" Blu-ray:


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12383550
> 
> 
> Answered above...
> http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=493



I had missed the AR thanks.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12383560
> 
> 
> Man, I have to get a Blu Ray player of some sort. I'm tired of missing out on my Disney favorites and now with Gilmour, well I'm just a huge PF fan so I think a PS3 might be the way to go for now.



Get it by Sony credit card and save a bundle.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12382544
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't it make you just want to reach out and touch someone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Mmm...me likes candy!







Nice shot too!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12385547
> 
> 
> Mmm...me likes candy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shot too!





Yeah, just bumps a man's IQ to zero instantly, huh...brain to mush, do not pass go, do not collect $200...



Slo-mo'd Dish DVR, Fashion House, Ultra channel (VOOM).


There is some NICE eye candy on that channel, esp. watching the supermodels strut their stuff with all the new fashions, all in scintillatingly accurate color on the runway. The braless ones kicking their jounce just make my eyes pop out...


Fashion House has absolutely delicious color designs, and as you see, some VERY pretty women! (including Morgan Fairchild's lips and a still breathtakingly beautiful Bo Derek, not to mention the 2 pictured above!)











Mr Bob


More Fashion House -


----------



## NautikaL

Wow, those people look like they're in the room. I was very confused for a sec.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12381356
> 
> 
> I've been way too busy at work lately. I finally got a chance to sit down and enjoy some of the new blu-rays that I ordered... including Gilmour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been enjoying all the screenshots here, so I figured I'd take a few tonight for you.
> 
> 
> Hope you had a great birthday and Thanksgiving.





You didn't forget to get "Flash Point" on blu-ray did you Clarence?










If not pm me and I'll get my copy to you, I'd really like to see what you, Cliff, and Art think of this title on your setups.


Plus we need some screenshots that represent the best!


----------



## Gino AUS

My copy of "Flash Point" is due any day now. Amongst another 90+ Blu-Ray movies due from Amazon... darned sales!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12390737
> 
> 
> You didn't forget to get "Flash Point" on blu-ray did you Clarence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not pm me and I'll get my copy to you, I'd really like to see what you, Cliff, and Art think of this title on your setups.
> 
> 
> Plus we need some screenshots that represent the best!



I didn't order it yet either. Why dont you send it to Clarence, when he is done, he can send it to me, then I can send it to Art.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12390844
> 
> 
> My copy of "Flash Point" is due any day now. Amongst another 90+ Blu-Ray movies due from Amazon... darned sales!



Dude, count the days big dog. We are going to have a BLAST. I cant wait!


Cliff


----------



## Grae

Guess I'll throw some into the mix, too. I love CRT's. They're a hassle to deal with but the end results are so worth it. Here's some older shots from my G70.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12390848
> 
> 
> I didn't order it yet either. Why dont you send it to Clarence, when he is done, he can send it to me, then I can send it to Art.
> 
> 
> Cliff



That will work Cliff, and in the order you prescribed, because if Art got the disc first he would be spending his time looking at this:









And you would have to give him one of these to get it to you!


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12390844
> 
> 
> My copy of "Flash Point" is due any day now. Amongst another 90+ Blu-Ray movies due from Amazon... darned sales!



Me thinks you'll enjoy this one Gino


----------



## Mr Bob

Wow! G70 means 7" guns, right? If so, wow again!


And Brian, those Pixar Shorts shots are just stunning. Are they available on HD DVD?



Mr Bob


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Blasst, your pictures are sharp but I see a lot of green. Some of the flesh are greening.


----------



## Mr Bob

from NauticaL:


> Quote:
> Wow, those people look like they're in the room. I was very confused for a sec.



Wow, thanks!


That's what it's all about, huh, getting spirited away from our present reality -


I just want to grab her and ask her to dance, good thing she's NOT in the room...












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12394408
> 
> 
> Blasst, your pictures are sharp but I see a lot of green. Some of the flesh are greening.



Yes, looks like the Tint is cranked WAY over to the green end. Great crispness, but the colorations are off the wall -



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

Yo Gino. I'll answer your question here:


----------



## overclkr

Ummm.... What was the question? :^)


Cliffy


----------



## Avax

Mike,


I am not a well known forum member as I seldom post. But I have had a CRT hanging from my ceiling for 12+ years and before that I used them in the field and at one time I was a video engineer calibrating gear with waveform monitors and vectorscopes in editing suites (pre-HD).


I know that you are among the most respected CRT experts on the planet. Your Marquee mods are legondary and I wish I had the descrsionary bucks to order up some neck boards and VIM mods from Tim at E-Tech and some day may do so.


Maybe I am stepping out of line here, however I am puzzled as to why your screen shots look like the blacks are crushed so badly. I went through the entire thread and it has remained consistant. I thought it must be my laptop display so I tried a different computer and they still looked crushed.


Are you having an issue with the camera? What am I missing? Color and white levels look dead on balls, but black IRE looks totaly clamped.


No disrespect intended, I just can't rectify this in my mind as I know you are an expert in this area, MP-5 and all.


Jay



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12400636
> 
> 
> Yo Gino. I'll answer your question here:


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Avax* /forum/post/12402070
> 
> 
> Are you having an issue with the camera? What am I missing? Color and white levels look dead on balls, but black IRE looks totaly clamped.
> 
> 
> No disrespect intended, I just can't rectify this in my mind as I know you are an expert in this area, MP-5 and all.
> 
> 
> Jay



No, you're not stepping out of line at all. Your comments are welcome. However, I'm not sure what you mean by the colors and white levels being spot on. They are terribly off, and that's because I'm also showing that I solved a blue problem that I was having. So the images are way too green.


Do you now own a digital projector?


----------



## mp20748

On the crush thing. Here's two images taking a month apart, with the same setup. The second image represents the latest changes, though neither is using any gamma mods or adjustments, I still like them both.


The detail is in the darkness...

*11/06/2007*









*12/04/2007*


----------



## mp20748

A mix of day, evening and night scenes...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Avax* /forum/post/12402070
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> I am not a well known forum member as I seldom post. But I have had a CRT hanging from my ceiling for 12+ years and before that I used them in the field and at one time I was a video engineer calibrating gear with waveform monitors and vectorscopes in editing suites (pre-HD).
> 
> 
> I know that you are among the most respected CRT experts on the planet. Your Marquee mods are legondary and I wish I had the descrsionary bucks to order up some neck boards and VIM mods from Tim at E-Tech and some day may do so.
> 
> 
> Maybe I am stepping out of line here, however I am puzzled as to why your screen shots look like the blacks are crushed so badly. I went through the entire thread and it has remained consistant. I thought it must be my laptop display so I tried a different computer and they still looked crushed.
> 
> 
> Are you having an issue with the camera? What am I missing? Color and white levels look dead on balls, but black IRE looks totaly clamped.
> 
> 
> No disrespect intended, I just can't rectify this in my mind as I know you are an expert in this area, MP-5 and all.
> 
> 
> Jay



Jay -


The setting of the brightness is a very critical thing to do, and once set properly, still has to be adjusted now and then in response to different media.


Mike has got his just right. It clamps the blacks to black properly, it delivers/fills in detail in dark areas just enough but not too much, and is not too up there and overdone, to where the blacks would lose their transparency by becoming gray and "hazing out", losing their "clamp(ing) to black" ability.


I don't know why you say there is black crush in his pix. His pix look just like movie film, which to us, here, is the Holy Grail at the present time in the technology. NOT available from most bulb-driven fixed pixel, BTW. Maybe someday we can get it even better, but for now Mike does the best blacks in the biz.



You have to set your computer monitor's black levels just right, to be able to capture what Mike has achieved here via screenshots. If your monitor's brightness is not set correctly, you won't see what you're supposed to see in these shots.


I can't imagine you would say the same thing if you were in his viewing room, watching it on location -



Mr Bob


----------



## 1031

[email protected]

Marquee 8500

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/galleria/show...00/ppuser/6701


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12403859
> 
> 
> I don't know why you say there is black crush in his pix. His pix look just like movie film, which to us, here, is the Holy Grail at the present time in the technology. NOT available from most bulb-driven fixed pixel, BTW. Maybe someday we can get it even better, but for now Mike does the best blacks in the biz.



I dont know how you cant say there is not black crush, it's pretty noticeable. And i'm on a crt monitior. Cameras can also add alot of crush to the pix but it is obvious. I tweaked a pic to compare..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12404359
> 
> 
> I dont know how you cant say there is not black crush, it's pretty noticeable. And i'm on a crt monitior. Cameras can also add alot of crush to the pix but it is obvious. I tweaked a pic to compare..



LOL... simply look at the screenshots and follow where the light is coming from in the scenes. And once you do that, how could a light from one direction only, Illuminate and entire image.


Of course we can tweak an image using software, but that In no way would represent reality. The scenes are shot representing moonlight or sunset.


The key in the shots is the detail..


----------



## Zues

If you look at the tweaked pick you can see kong creepin. Whether you can see him in your theater or whether you are suppose to see him at all i dont know.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12404619
> 
> 
> If you look at the tweaked pick you can see kong creepin. Whether you can see him in your theater or whether you are suppose to see him at all i dont know.



It's a lot different in the theater, which does not have the best walls and ceiling for this, but it is much better. Though not bad for an Inexpensive camera.


I prefer to not use any gamma fixes what-so-ever. And since I'm able to get a perfect phluge, I prefer to keep that as my reference. I can also crank up the brightness and make things look better. But to me, it would not be reference, just like playing with the gamma control. If the reference is in place, there's no real need to have gamma improvement.


What I like about the Kong shots are that they all have challenging lighting. The better ones are either shot in a dark jungle in the evening, or there's the ones with the sunset and moonlight. Being able to capture a part of that is a real jewel for me. And in person, it jumps off the screen..


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12404724
> 
> 
> It's a lot different in the theater, which does not have the best walls and ceiling for this, but it is much better. Though not bad for an Inexpensive camera.
> 
> 
> I prefer to not use any gamma fixes what-so-ever. And since I'm able to get a perfect phluge, I prefer to keep that as my reference. I can also crank up the brightness and make things look better. But to me, it would not be reference, just like playing with the gamma control. If the reference is in place, there's no real need to have gamma improvement.
> 
> 
> What I like about the Kong shots are that they all have challenging lighting. The better ones are either shot in a dark jungle in the evening, or there's the ones with the sunset and moonlight. Being able to capture a part of that is a real jewel for me. And in person, it jumps off the screen..



Yeah, it's a dark movie, like LOTR.



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12404359
> 
> 
> I dont know how you cant say there is not black crush, it's pretty noticeable. And i'm on a crt monitior. Cameras can also add alot of crush to the pix but it is obvious. I tweaked a pic to compare..



Black crush is the absence of details because they fall below the black floor and as such get absorbed and disappear.


Whenever a scene can be Brightness/black level'd up to reveal the details, as Mike's do, there is no black crush going on.


It's just a matter of accurately setting the brightness control. Setting it the way it is here does highlight the details more and fills things in more, but obviously to a fault, here. Mike's does appear a little dark on my monitor, and prolly a point halfway between would work. It all depends on how your computer's monitor is set, and the lighting of the room your monitor is in.


A delicate balance has to be struck, in any viewing room. I am sure that in Mike's viewing room, under ideal lighting conditions like in a movie theater, the details all show up properly and that it is absolutely stunning.



Mr Bob


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12404450
> 
> 
> LOL... simply look at the screenshots and follow where the light is coming from in the scenes. And once you do that, how could a light from one direction only, Illuminate and entire image.



For the specific Kong example, there could've been additional lighting directly behind camera.


But assuming there wasn't, you still need to also consider reflections - off of the ground, trees, and even the sky (maybe there's a mountain behind camera point of view). That why you should be able to see things even if they aren't directly illuminated by the main light source; there should be some visible detail in the shadows.


I think Zues' example is showing that the camera can see the detail in the screenshot - so it must be on screen as well. I.e. the black crush is not in the original display. You just need to do levels/histogram in photoshop in order to recover the detail in the screenshot.


Alot of people are very impressed by your screenshots. If you properly set the black and white points of your screenshots in photoshop to match what you see on the screen they should be even more impressive.


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12405077
> 
> 
> Black crush is the absence of details because they fall below the black floor and as such get absorbed and disappear.
> 
> 
> Whenever a scene can be brightness'd up to reveal the details, as Mike's do, there is no black crush going on.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



That's spot on.


While Mike's pics often look very dark, that's just the way he chooses to make them to show specific characteristics of his mods.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ilsiu* /forum/post/12405182
> 
> 
> You just need to do levels/histogram in photoshop in order to recover the detail in the screenshot.



Yeah but that would be cheating







Because their would be doubt about if the picture is what they are really seeing. One more comaprison and think about it if the modded pic is what he is really seeing.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12406187
> 
> 
> Yeah but that would be cheating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because their would be doubt about if the picture is what they are really seeing. One more comaprison and think about it if the modded pic is what he is really seeing.
> 
> [/IMG]



Yeah, but it's the same thing that you're doing. You're also adding intensity to something that did not originally have that level of light in it.


The best and only way to prove your point would be to either take the same shot yourself, or somebody else take it. But hopefully use a CRT for this, because I digital would do the same thing that your software is doing. Don't forget that the detail must follow..


Actually, the shots are much better looking to me on the screen, and considering it's an Air Coupled 8500, and the room is not prime time for HT. And If I'm able to get the 9" guns and Moome card installed this month, then I'm sure things will be a lot different. But for now, not bad at all for an 8" AC machine..


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12404359
> 
> 
> I dont know how you cant say there is not black crush, it's pretty noticeable. And i'm on a crt monitior. Cameras can also add alot of crush to the pix but it is obvious. I tweaked a pic to compare..



Your brightened pic shows that there was detail in the photo therefore not the pj's fault but could be his dcam. Most of them under expose anyway.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12407293
> 
> 
> Actually, the shots are much better looking to me on the screen, and considering it's an Air Coupled 8500, and the room is not prime time for HT. And If I'm able to get the 9" guns and Moome card installed this month, then I'm sure things will be a lot different. But for now, not bad at all for an 8" AC machine..




No doubt about it they still Rock. I can only dream about having a set up like that.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/12407446
> 
> 
> Your brightened pic shows that there was detail in the photo therefore not the pj's fault but could be his dcam. Most of them under expose anyway.



This was what my thought was as well, but I did not have a solution other than playing with either contrast or brightness, and would have effected the reference, so that was out.


I took a few more, but this time I adjusted the "EXP" higher. Not quite high enough for the images in question, but I did manage to get better "exposure" from these shots:


----------



## mp20748

I may have been able to do a tiny bit better, but at this point I'm sure I'll need a better camera for this.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/12407446
> 
> 
> Your brightened pic shows that there was detail in the photo therefore not the pj's fault but could be his dcam. Most of them under expose anyway.



My cam overexposes. I had to turn the contrast on the Mit way down for the Dexter shot to not be garish and the focus bloomed.


(My former Samsung 35mm film cam with the Schneider lens would not stay open long enough to capture a regular shot on a big screen from a projector - had an exposure limit of 2 seconds, which was not nearly enough.)


I had not caught on when I shot the dining room shot earlier - or was that on this thread? - but may redo that one just for spite, just to show the difference in crispness when your cam is not overexposing your source...


Mike, that does look a bit better filled in a little more.



Boy can we split hairs on this stuff! And overlook the talent it took to even get that far!


Nice pix, Mike! At whatever exposure setting!












Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM

My Canon p&s crushes black in its output but not in the raw data.

Just a bit of brightness boost will do the trick.


----------



## Avax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12402502
> 
> 
> No, you're not stepping out of line at all. Your comments are welcome. However, I'm not sure what you mean by the colors and white levels being spot on. They are terribly off, and that's because I'm also showing that I solved a blue problem that I was having. So the images are way too green.
> 
> 
> Do you now own a digital projector?



Mike,


No digital, I have had a CRT on the ceiling for 11 years now. Currently I am down, lost my red due to ignoring P14 for too long, replacement arived DOA, I have another thread started on this.


I guess when I go back I can see some of the green push maybe on Jack Black's coat and maybe the jungle greens might be a tad hot, hard to say it is the jungle after all. It's supposed to be green there!


Detail seems excellent in the white, the hat of the guy Jack Black is talking too and other shots of the girl's white dress look great. I don't see any detail loss or the green push for that matter in the white. Maybe a possible tad of over modulating in the water fall, but I assume this in the source.


I think the details in the black just don't translate well taking a pic of a screen and viewing on a computer monitor. I think the one that got me on the blacks was the shot with Kong sitting on the left and the girl standing on the right next to the waterfall . At first I didnt even know Kong was there until I saw the outline ofhis sholder. I pulled that into photshop and pushed up the black level and very few new details came out, he was mosly a big dark smudge. But it was the only one I did as it was 2AM.


Now that I see the other folks taking some of the other shots and pushing up the black levels and much moe detail is emerging I have to stand corrected and assume that the source is really like that.


Anyway you really can't argue with phluge, if you can dial in the spot between black and sub black the rest is what it is.


Jay


----------



## Brian Feldman

Did a few shots some 2 movies tonight.


Sony G90 on 92" Wide 1.85:1 homemade screen



(HD-DVD Moive Breeach)











(HD-DVD Movie Breeach)











(HD-DVD Movie "Shooter")











(HD-DVD Movie "Shooter"












All comments and criticisims always welcomed!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Avax* /forum/post/12412020
> 
> 
> Anyway you really can't argue with phluge, if you can dial in the spot between black and sub black the rest is what it is.
> 
> 
> Jay



Well, I really appreciate you bringing this out. It gave me a chance to learn more on this. I knew the detail was there (because of the phluge), but did not know why it wasn't obvious, or seen in the darker areas. Mr. Bob as well has been the biggest help with these shots, because he explains stuff from a different perspective on evaluating images.


In what I do, a reference is very important, so that's why I stay away from making adjustments without knowing where they're taking me and since being able to get a perfect phluge, I leave it as my guide or foundation. The exception being color balance. For now I can live with the optical comparator, or doing it by eye. As along as it's not a part of the finals.


The movie Kong is bubbling with great images and scenes. It amazes me how the cameras took advantage of the great sceneries that was around their shooting, or was chosen for the scenes. To me, this is some of the things that make the hobby so much fun to enjoy. being able to not only follow the story and action, but to also experience what the directors spent so much time to also put into the movie is much like the difference in a basic fast food meal, and a meal that's very well labored over and very nicely seasoned.



The "EXP" appears to be a tad too high on the first one, so that allows me to learn more about doing better with choosing the best settings, which I'll get around to later after I install the 9" tubes.











This next shot I like because I can see the detail in the tree behind his head, as well the illumination on his chest. And right behind the beauty, there's a patch of illumination on the ground and around her. The sunset is great and I see see where it's playing out on the scene. The "EXP" seems to bring some graininess to the sky.











This last one is special. I know Kong is behind her and could be bought out more, but I'm also thinking the director saw a great area to shoot a great scene. And this movie is full of scenes like these, where someone took the time to also show how fantastic a movie could look when you also highlight that great outdoor nature stuff. They did a lot of wide open area shots in this movie, when the target is usually a small area or object. And they also made it so that the things that are at great distances are so clear and discern-able. The "EXP" must also be adding those white spots..


----------



## Mr Bob

Mike, the immense detail always shows, in all your shots. Same with Clarence's and Cliff's and Brian's shots. And Grae's and a few others. Not to mention Ken's obvious talents, showing massively and splendidly, all over Cliff's shots -


That is what takes most of the work, between the extensive, highly comprehensive focusing, and the laborious geometry and convergence, and that alone is worth the price of admission...


It takes an experienced, HIGHLY practiced eye and an incredibly patient personality to bring this off, willing to leave no stone unturned. We're all sculptors, here, working for all the depth we can bring out in these images. I have spent many happy hours in these late night sessions, Cliff tells me that Ken worked on his double-stack setup for something like 24 hours...



Did you ever check out whether the optics on your guns/lenses might be dirty? The top picture above still has that "glow" above the top edge, in scenes where it's white against black up there -



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12412896
> 
> 
> Mike, the immense detail always shows, in all your shots.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever check out whether the optics on your guns/lenses might be dirty? The top picture above still has that "glow" above the top edge, in scenes where it's white against black up there -
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



For my best with DETAIL you'll have to wait until I get the Moome card next week. these shots have been taking using my Xbox 360 / HD-DVD. Right now, we're seeing improvements from my last changes to the mods. And as I've been saying and have been confirmed, I'm doing this without any gamma correction, and there's plenty of detail in the darkness..










Dang, I've yet to check those lenses. I'll do that later today - thanks..


Oh, here's a few more:


----------



## NateTTU

What movie is this from?


----------



## lordcloud

Chronicles of Riddick and the last two are Batman Begins


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Ma$termind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12158001
> 
> 
> Panasonic AE2000 10ft Wide 1080P SMX:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



WOW..







That is an amazing PQ for the money! Do you think the new Sanyo (PLV-Z2000) would perform around the same level? That is the PJ I'm looking at atm.


BTW - I'm completely jealous of all you guys with a G90 (or 2!) It's kind of embarrassing bringing up such a "low-end" PJ in your presence.. Maybe someday I'll get close to that kind of PQ...







This is only my first shot at HT, though, so I guess I have time to mature xD


----------



## mp20748

While I'm up I took another stab at getting the camera settings right. For now I have the "EXP" set one notch lower. Before I had it a notch or more higher, or may even had one or two at this same setting. But sure sure, it's now a notch lower.


My wife woke me around 11:30 saying the heat was not working. I found a red button on top of something in there that I pressed and it came back on - thank God, because it is cold outside. Now it's going take forever to get back to sleep.

*Xbox 360 1080P -> Marquee 8500 w/ 02 Vim and a few other things different*


----------



## NautikaL

Mike, what's the matter with the second to last shot? You couldn't wait for the pause display to disappear?







Lookin' good...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12422576
> 
> 
> Mike, what's the matter with the second to last shot? You couldn't wait for the pause display to disappear?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lookin' good...



LOL..


oh well, I'll leave it as is, especially since I'm still sorting things out..


----------



## Avax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12422546
> 
> 
> While I'm up I took another stab at getting the camera settings right. For now I have the "EXP" set one notch lower. Before I had it a notch or more higher, or may even had one or two at this same setting. But sure sure, it's now a notch lower.
> 
> 
> My wife woke me around 11:30 saying the heat was not working. I found a red button on top of something in there that I pressed and it came back on - thank God, because it is cold outside. Now it's going take forever to get back to sleep.
> 
> *Xbox 360 1080P -> Marquee 8500 w/ 02 Vim and a few other things different*




Wow what a difference! Blacks look much better. I can now see the detail without photochop. You may of payed for it with a little bit of white detail though. Jack Black's hat seems a just a tad bit washed out, hard to say on the water fall images. But worth it the sacrifice if this is the case.


----------



## Gino AUS

The problem with taking screenshots is when you're trying to take a picture with such a high dynamic range. You end up crushing the blacks to focus more on the high end, or you crush the whites to pick more of the low end. Very hard to get the correct exposure without any crush.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Avax* /forum/post/12422854
> 
> 
> Jack Black's hat seems a just a tad bit washed out, hard to say on the water fall images. But worth it the sacrifice if this is the case.



That crush In his hat shown in the shot, is not seen on the screen, but as long as I'm seeing the low end played out well in the shots, It can crush all it wants at the top in the shots. I'm really not expecting my Canon A560 to handle the levels of dynamics seen on the screen.


that little red button keeps popping up in my furnace..










btw, all shots are writing, arranged and produced by 'No Gamma Productions'..










A few more:


----------



## nashou66

If you have a high efficiency furnace check the intake and exhaust flues out side, if its a forced air system. if there plugged the furnace wont work. also on the panel there should be instruction as to what the red light means. It could also be that the combustion chamber valve is cloged, this valve lets water/condensation escape and if it is clogged with slime and moldy water the furnace wont work either, i just had that problem.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12423513
> 
> 
> If you have a high efficiency furnace check the intake and exhaust flues out side, if its a forced air system. if there plugged the furnace wont work. also on the panel there should be instruction as to what the red light means. It could also be that the combustion chamber valve is cloged, this valve lets water/condensation escape and if it is clogged with slime and moldy water the furnace wont work either, i just had that problem.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I've attached a photo showing the thingy that the button (heat switch) is attached to (top right). Not sure if it's the same as one of the items you mention above.


I sure hope It's something I can do. Me and the HVAC folk had a hard time at. They will come out and do something like clean or push something to get things back working, and they'll charge big bucks. And will also tell me that I have a defective what-u-callit, and because my furnace is more than five years old. They would have to order it from a special factory on the west coast, and that It would cost me $400.00 for the part. But they won't charge me again for labor.


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12422889
> 
> 
> The problem with taking screenshots is when you're trying to take a picture with such a high dynamic range. You end up crushing the blacks to focus more on the high end, or you crush the whites to pick more of the low end. Very hard to get the correct exposure without any crush.




You could create HDR images.


Take an over-exposed image for the low level detail, a properly exposed image for mid levels, and an under-exposed image for the high levels.


An HDR suite or plugin would then combine the results into a high dynamic range photo.


Photoshop CS2 and CS3 have that feature, as well as several standalone applications like EasyHDR Pro or Photomatix Pro.


This is not "cheating", as you would still only capture what is displayed on the screen. It just eliminates inherent limitations of digital or analog photography.


Kai


----------



## NautikaL

HDR images never end up looking natural, so I don't think that would be a good idea. http://www.vanilladays.com/wp-conten...dr-3-raws1.jpg . Yea, that looks cool, but it doesn't even look like earth.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12424004
> 
> 
> I've attached a photo showing the thingy that the button (heat switch) is attached to (top right). Not sure if it's the same as one of the items you mention above.
> 
> 
> I sure hope It's something I can do. Me and the HVAC folk had a hard time at. They will come out and do something like clean or push something to get things back working, and they'll charge big bucks. And will also tell me that I have a defective what-u-callit, and because my furnace is more than five years old. They would have to order it from a special factory on the west coast, and that It would cost me $400.00 for the part. But they won't charge me again for labor.



well first you most likely have a High efficiency unit since its 4 years old. you probably have PVC pipe going out the wall and no real high temp flue. this is where you need to look before you look at anything else. it the passage way is blocked either for the exhaust or the intake ,some are set up with two seperate tubes outside one facing up and one down or an all in one unit that will look like a funnel , it wont work. they need to be clear, both should be outside your house, hopefully on the wall not roof. Mine was not that problem. there is a water draining valve conected to the gas valve , not sure what it does. But it look like the round disk thing in your pic. does it have any rubber tubes connected to it anywhere? This is where the water should drain out by gravity to a drain comming out of your heater. look for the drain tube and follow it back to a drain resevoir. this is what was clogged on mine and it fixed it. i had another guy try to figure it out and he told me it was a bad switch, 300 bucks but i had the original installers come and they cleaned it out and lold me to keep it clean every 6 months or so. 140 with labor and the instructions what to look for next time. maybe this will help?


Athanasios


Another thing mike, is this the first time its been on all year?

i spider might have made a nest in one of the gas orifices . that happened a few years ago also. these high E units are very finicky.


----------



## Zues




----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/12424093
> 
> 
> You could create HDR images.
> 
> ...



Hi Kai, I had tried creating a HDR screenshot of your test pattern a few months ago using CS3. Even with the camera on a tripod, it was very difficult to get the images lined up exactly from top to bottom etc... Especially where you had the 1 pixel wide writing in the top left, so you are losing sharpness doing this method I think


----------



## Gino AUS

Nice shots Zues. I find digitals photograph better. You can't tell me that your digital is producing blacks that look like that.


----------



## mp20748

Really nice shots there Zues. Is that HD-DVD? If so, do you have Kong, and can you also post some of the Kong images that were previously posted in this thread.


I'll have my Moome card in next week and will have more time on my hands.

Zues
 



MP (not color balanced)


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12432828
> 
> 
> Hi Kai, I had tried creating a HDR screenshot of your test pattern a few months ago using CS3. Even with the camera on a tripod, it was very difficult to get the images lined up exactly from top to bottom etc... Especially where you had the 1 pixel wide writing in the top left, so you are losing sharpness doing this method I think



yeah, it's really tricky.

this one was an HDR attempt using Photomatix Pro's "Combine -> Highlights and Shadows - Adjust" feature:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/12383641



Results are fairly good that way, but only if you do bracketing in 1/3 steps. Sometimes it is even best to combine just 2 or 3 shots instead of 5 or 7.

I think I used just 2 images for the above shot (there's some shadow detail that is lost in the background under the sail - it is easily visibleon the screen though).


----------



## NateTTU

Zeus,


If that is a digital, seems pretty nice, what pj are you using?


----------



## Zues

Their screens from a 60in plasma. I hope some of you did not think it was a projector







I know it's not fair and can not compare to a big projection dedicated theater. Eye candy none the less so waht the heck..


Gino-your right no way the blacks really look like that, it's a illusion. Black crush from cameras help any digital shots appear to have great blacks.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12432999
> 
> 
> Is that HD-DVD? If so, do you have Kong, and can you also post some of the Kong images that were previously posted in this thread.



They are not even my shots, although i modified them as the originals were oversaturated.


----------



## overclkr

G90 Stack:











60" Plasma:











Cliff


----------



## nashou66

I loved it Cliff when you showup the non CRT screen shots! Man i'd love to see that set up live.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

after a bit more work on my lowly and playing around with different settings on the camera. It's kinda dim, but even with the lower setting I'm still seeing very good detail.


You can now actually see the clouds in the bright sky in some of the shots. A first for me..


Contrast 50 / Brightness 50. This time "EXP" set two notches left of the "0"


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12425004
> 
> 
> Another thing mike, is this the first time its been on all year?
> 
> i spider might have made a nest in one of the gas orifices . that happened a few years ago also. these high E units are very finicky.



No. it's been on before. And it's not 4 years old, it's more around 18 years old, though it does have "Energy Efficient" on it.


Oh and I did get out figured out myself. It has 6 flame throwers shooting fire into a chamber or something like that. The flame on the far left is also hitting the side of the tube that it shoots into. That must be causing the chamber to heat up and trip that temp breaker. I modified that flame thrower, and bingo..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12439166
> 
> 
> No. it's been on before. And it's not 4 years old, it's more around 18 years old, though it does have "Energy Efficient" on it.
> 
> 
> Oh and I did get out figured out myself. It has 6 flame throwers shooting fire into a chamber or something like that. The flame on the far left is also hitting the side of the tube that it shoots into. That must be causing the chamber to heat up and trip that temp breaker. I modified that flame thrower, and bingo..



I knew you'd figure it out. Being a genius and all










Athanasios


----------



## Fellenz

Mike,











In this screenshot what is going on on the left side of the screen, is that "ringing" or is it something with the screen.


Erik


btw. the shots look awesome


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12439976
> 
> 
> I knew you'd figure it out. Being a genius and all



Fade to Mike, fleeing house with Marquee under arm, flames in background.


----------



## Jim Kildare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fellenz* /forum/post/12440073
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this screenshot what is going on on the left side of the screen, is that "ringing" or is it something with the screen.



Might want to look at this
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940857 


You are most likley using HD Dvd or Blu Ray and the porch settings are hooped, you can try adjusting phase in the projector to minimize it, or use a processor, or htpc to correct the porches.


Bet your using short retrace.


Jim


----------



## Mr Bob

These are from the Dish DVR. I set my cam to the next highest setting for these. Formerly it was set at 1.2 MP, these are from the 2.0 setting. There is a 3M setting, but I don't see any difference now, between the first 2.



Sorry about the herringbone, it's not there in the TV's image, must be coming in via the USB or something...


The set's image is definitely crisper than what shows here - don't know how to get it any better, perhaps it's my camera -


Toshiba digital with 10x Canon lens -




Slo-mo from DVR

 


Closeup telephoto, zoomed at camera, same scene (interview), with Image Shack Sizing setting up one notch

 


With color level at TV turned down to match lowered light level of contrast setting


----------



## mp20748

Amazing flesh tones. what is this from, what type of display?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12446753


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fellenz* /forum/post/12440073
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this screenshot what is going on on the left side of the screen, is that "ringing" or is it something with the screen.
> 
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> btw. the shots look awesome



In that last group of shots, I'm using a stock VIM. Funny that you've noticed this, because It got by me. And now I'm wondering why I did not notice it with the modded VIM. My Xbox 360 is in "short" but that's the best setting for it, so I leave it there. I've never noticed the ringing before, and now wondering If it's only showing because I'm using a stock VIM..


----------



## mp20748

I do see the ringing with the modded board, but it's very very slight..hmm


Anyway. I've been working on my neck boards mods. And as I said before, what I'm doing now concludes all changes being made to the mods in the future by me, I'm done. I have to get around to some other stuff and prepare for 2008. Later on, I'll try and make up some DIY MP mod upgrade bulletins. I'll post more on this later over at Curt's. Still got some testing to do, but this week we'll be moving to the Moome HDMI card and..







So our next shots should be Blue..


These final changes are still under testing, and really look good on the screen. Not sure where the extra colors are coming from, because the color setting in the camera is still "OFF"

*Xbox 360/1080P -> Marquee 8500 - waiting on the Moome card*


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12446918
> 
> 
> Amazing flesh tones. what is this from, what type of display?




Mit 73" WS 73517 RPTV, last of its kind, bought new at the first of the year this year, almost exactly a year ago. 9" guns.


I have shimmed the CRT array forward 1.5", which cured it of its overscan without having to do so in sm. Just had to do mopup in sm, a fresh high precision geometry/convergence job. Plus refocusing all 3 guns.


The colors were done by eye, they had to be redone by hand, to get rid of the everpresent red push Mit has always believed in, God knows why. I had to spend lots of time with their PerfectColor in User, ferretting out what each of the 6 color controls REALLY did, since they don't do as they are labeled.


That's in User, which had to be combined with service menu master Color and Tint. It took awhile -



Then since I don't have any way to stop down either my cam's exposure nor its shutter speed, I had to lower the contrast substantially, to keep it from blooming. As such, I then had to also lower the master color level, which is of course inextricably bound to the contrast level.


The Br could stay the same, amazingly enough!


This was off my Dish DVR, from a recording on broadcast TV the other night. The Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

  


 


 

 



This is a Before shot, to test out the sys native, without CraigM's anti-ringing mod. Which I plan to do ASAP, but you know this time of year, may not get to it before New Year's...


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12446991
> 
> 
> These final changes are still under testing, and really look good on the screen. Not sure where the extra colors are coming from, because the color setting in the camera is still "OFF"
> 
> *Xbox 360/1080P -> Marquee 8500 - waiting on the Moome card*



Wow! Look at the dynamic range on that shot










Nice choice in screenshot, shows off a little bit of everything


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12447087
> 
> 
> Mit 73" WS 73517 RPTV, last of its kind, bought new at the first of the year this year, almost exactly a year ago. 9" guns.
> 
> 
> I have shimmed the CRT array forward 1.5", which cured it of its overscan without having to do so in sm. Just had to do mopup in sm, a fresh high precision geometry/convergence job. Plus refocusing all 3 guns.
> 
> 
> The colors were done by eye, they had to be redone by hand, to get rid of the everpresent red push Mit has always believed in, God knows why. I had to spend lots of time with their PerfectColor in User, ferretting out what each of the 6 color controls REALLY did, since they don't do as they are labeled.
> 
> 
> That's in User, which had to be combined with service menu master Color and Tint. It took awhile -
> 
> 
> 
> Then since I don't have any way to stop down either my cam's exposure nor its shutter speed, I had to lower the contrast substantially, to keep it from blooming. As such, I then had to also lower the master color level, which is of course inextricably bound to the contrast level.
> 
> 
> The Br could stay the same, amazingly enough!
> 
> 
> This was off my Dish DVR, from a recording on broadcast TV the other night. The Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Bob,


Did you pay yourself when you were done?










Many of us wish we could do a pro calibration to our own sets like you can.


----------



## CaspianM

Mike your 1080p Xbox360 shots rock!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/12453802
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> 
> Did you pay yourself when you were done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of us wish we could do a pro calibration to our own sets like you can.



I understand.


Not everybody has the time necessary to man the learning curves involved.













I am and will for now stay still available to do these kinds of things to your sets too. I am still a career calibrator, and as long as a certain number of those viewing these threads hire me to do paid work, I and my fellow calibrators can survive staying so.


But lots of people want to do this on their own rather than hiring a calibrator to do so, even after absorbing all that we calibrators have to offer and have shared with them, here and on other threads like this. You have no idea how many hours a week I spend tapping away at these keys on other threads, giving out free technical information about calibration and repair of big screens.



If the DIYers who read this kind of thread predominate too much and thus swamp the quantities involved and leave the owners who are willing to pay us calibrators for such services in too small a minority, then of course I and many others would have to look elsewhere for career opportunities. The demise of CRT tech in RPTVs is already signalling the end of an era there, for sets that require image structure alignment...


Hasn't happened yet. Paid gigs are still not totally plentiful, requiring my repair services to take up the slack. But enough are still happening to keep me here for now, at least.


Keep your fingers crossed -












Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Here is a few kick ass shots from an RS1 owner. I'm so looking foward to this on HDM.















































Cliff


----------



## antorsae

Cliff... your G90 shots *rock*. They are sharp, and the gamma is spot on.


It's funny that digitals look better on screenshots than CRTs. I got a Panny AE2000 for 16/9 content and internet browsing mainly. Although it has nice intra-scene contrast in high-APL scenes, and I am sure screenshots would look probably nicer than CRT screenshots... well... you know what I am going to say...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/12466907
> 
> 
> Cliff... your G90 shots *rock*. They are sharp, and the gamma is spot on.
> 
> 
> It's funny that digitals look better on screenshots than CRTs. I got a Panny AE2000 for 16/9 content and internet browsing mainly. Although it has nice intra-scene contrast in high-APL scenes, and I am sure screenshots would look probably nicer than CRT screenshots... well... you know what I am going to say...




Stop it. Your making me blush.










Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Mr,Bob, you should do what Craig Rounds does and use a lumagen scaler to calibrate the mitsu. he leaves all the mitsus enhancments off and all the setting to default and calibrates through the lumagen. excelent results and you can take care of the overscan too!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/12468848
> 
> 
> Mr,Bob, you should do what Craig Rounds does and use a lumagen scaler to calibrate the mitsu. he leaves all the mitsus enhancments off and all the setting to default and calibrates through the lumagen. excelent results and you can take care of the overscan too!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



One of these days...


For now I am struggling just to get the time to do Craig's anti-ringing mod, and still buy - no, make that shop for, even - presents for my loved ones. While still working for a living...


Have you heard of this thing called Xmas? It makes everybody temporarily crazy, makes their dollars disappear from their pockets, and makes all avaliable discretionary time shrink to nothing...












But for some reason I just can't stay away...













Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, your shots knock me out! Same for Clarence. I can still see that big one of Mel Gibson, as if it were on a billboard -


How do you do it? What kind of cam, and what system do you use to get them up here???


Your crispness seems limitless, and is preserved even when you do the oversize pic size. HOW???



Mr Bob


----------



## BFJ 96




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12473579
> 
> 
> Cliff, your shots knock me out! Same for Clarence. I can still see that big one of Mel Gibson, as if it were on a billboard -
> 
> 
> How do you do it? What kind of cam, and what system do you use to get them up here???
> 
> 
> Your crispness seems limitless, and is preserved even when you do the oversize pic size. HOW???
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Mr. Bob if those screens are not direct capture up-loads , then they are being taken with Digital SLR Cameras


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/12483248
> 
> 
> Mr. Bob if those screens are not direct capture up-loads , then they are being taken with Digital SLR Cameras



Cliff uses a Kodak Easyshare Z740:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...S&pq-path=6547 

http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-Easyshar.../dp/B0007MVZ5A 











I'm now using a Canon XTI, but my old Canon point and shoot cameras did most of my previous screenshots.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12483777
> 
> 
> Cliff uses a Kodak Easyshare Z740:
> 
> http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...S&pq-path=6547
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-Easyshar.../dp/B0007MVZ5A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm now using a Canon XTI, but my old Canon point and shoot cameras did most of my previous screenshots.



Hell, and after owning it all this time, I still havent figured the damn thing out......

















Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

How about some holiday scenery...


I watched "Shrek the Halls" with my kids last night:


----------



## dropzone7

Crap! I forgot to record that! Looks good too!


----------



## Clarence

It was actually pretty good...


All of the original voices... great movie quality PQ. Plus I literally laughed out loud in a couple of spots... for example, when Puss in Boots got mesmerized by the fuzz ball on his Santa "Claws" hat.


In the 2nd screenshot above, Gingerbread Man is delivering a pick-up line... "Did you get hurt when you fell from heaven?" Later, he feels sick and pukes up a Hersheys Kiss.


----------



## dropzone7

Good times. Man Clarence, I bet it must feel good to be watching movies on that schweet G90 knowing that you have a minty set of tubes on the shelf when the time comes...

I am looking for a G90 now but I doubt I will ever find one I can afford. Maybe when all you enthusiasts get done with yours I can scoop up an old crusty hulk and spend the next five years trying to nurse it back to health and find tubes for it.


----------



## Brian Feldman

Some really sweet SS being posted here!!


I was watching a DVR recording off of Dish of Ronin and stopped the movie a few times for some shots.









































(Bourne Ultimatium)


----------



## mp20748

I have a Verizon Fios DVR. I've had it awhile and had recorded a few things on it some time back, but never got around to looking at what I had recorded. This morning I fired up my lowly 8500 and connected the Fios box into my Moome card using the HDMI cable. Could not do a good pause without a part of the menu, so I blanked as much as I could of the bottom of the image.


These shots are done at 1080I. I'll have the Blu-Ray in the loop later, and then will get back with 1080P. I gotta admit, much to my surprise 1080I is not bad on my lowly 8500.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12486980
> 
> 
> Some really sweet SS being posted here!!
> 
> 
> I was watching a DVR recording off of Dish of Ronin and stopped the movie a few times for some shots.




WOW!!! TYhat looks great, especially knowing how awful the DVD version is, and I mean it's horrible. At least the one I have.


----------



## mp20748

Bru-Ray back in da house..


----------



## wallace1234

MP! Looking good. What about beefing up my 1272?


lol


wallace


----------



## Brian Feldman

Hello Mike... You have posted quite a few very impressive images with your Marquee.. In the last few images from the BluRay movie Casino Royale', I feel that there is either an issue with too much black crush being caused either in the image itself on the projector or with your camera you use to take the screen shots with. There is a lot more low level detail that should be in the image.


I put on the same BluRay movie and took some screen shots so you can see what I am referring to.


----------



## Brian Feldman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/12491802
> 
> 
> WOW!!! TYhat looks great, especially knowing how awful the DVD version is, and I mean it's horrible. At least the one I have.




Thanks.... This was a recordiing in HD that I got off of my DVR. I also have the SD DVD and agree that it was not the best transfer.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12494927
> 
> 
> Hello Mike... You have posted quite a few very impressive images with your Marquee.. In the last few images from the BluRay movie Casino Royale', I feel that there is either an issue with too much black crush being caused either in the image itself on the projector or with your camera you use to take the screen shots with. There is a lot more low level detail that should be in the image.
> 
> 
> I put on the same BluRay movie and took some screen shots so you can see what I am referring to.



Dude your shots rock. It's like looking at mine.










I wonder why?


----------



## Brian Feldman




overclkr said:


> Dude your shots rock. It's like looking at mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT's what I'm talking about!!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12494927
> 
> 
> Hello Mike... You have posted quite a few very impressive images with your Marquee.. In the last few images from the BluRay movie Casino Royale', I feel that there is either an issue with too much black crush being caused either in the image itself on the projector or with your camera you use to take the screen shots with. There is a lot more low level detail that should be in the image.
> 
> 
> I put on the same BluRay movie and took some screen shots so you can see what I am referring to.



Thanks Brian. I took a few quickies earlier to show I'm back with a Blu-Ray player. It's a Pioneer that needs an firmware upgrade. I'll get back to that shot tomorrow after I get all things lined up a bit better..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

My 8" guns just won't do so well at those brightness levels, especially without

clipping the white in Bond's shirt and his jacket. But I think it does quite well with colors and flesh tones.


----------



## Mr Bob

Blacks a bit compromised by the sun coming up, and not having complete shutout blinds in my living room. Plus fleshtones uneven at edges because of cam not being able to go more than 9' back without tripod hitting the window...


Doesn't show up that way while looking at it, tho, it's strictly a camera thing with rear projection, on standard issue CRT RPTV fresnel/lenticular combo sandwich screens. To the naked eye, the fleshtones are even, all the way out -


On my screen viewed directly, I can see the glitter in her makeup -


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob

Nice shots, Mike.


But you still have not cleaned your optics yet, I'll betcha...











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

I've finally figured out how to update the firmware on the Pioneer Blu-Ray player. .. however, the update did not fix the slight image problem I was seeing with the player and the Moome card..










After getting all done, the Xbox showed a much punchier image than the Blu-Ray player through the Moome card. Plus I was beginning to think that I would need the gamma board. Knowing that's something I'm not trying to do, I pulled out the scope and started looking at signals on my test unit.


A few hours later and after making few few changes to the Moome card, I'm now getting a 200% sharper image... no I'm just kidding here..










I di make some Improvements. And the image is without a doubt sharper with the same punch I'm getting from the Xbox, but much sharper than the Xbox.


Anyway, I've blown the warrantee on my Moome card. And since I'll be sharing with Moome the changes that I've made, he may want to Implement them himself. On my system the changes were a real plus for 1080P. If not using 1080P, it's not necessary. And If you already have a card, don't worry about it. It's not something I'll be doing.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12501907



Cute kitties.

A little blue, though, I think.

White balance in the camera (a problem that has caused me to give up entirely)?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

MP, I saw a huge difference from all the pictures you have posted previously compared to the new pictures you posted above. It is very sharp, very 3D. There's not much adjective I can find. It's simply stunning!!!







Hopefully, that's still from your Marquee.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

About my Sony 1272, I always do convergence, almost everytime I watch. I leave the machine for 30 mins to make sure they're stabilized. Sometimes, convergence is ok. But most of the times, I will have to do minimal convergence. If you notice on the lower left, it's not converged well.


What about your pj guys? I don't do daily manual convergence on my RPTV CRT.







But anyways, I'm still happy with the picture quality. It's not the best but it gives me a smile.










Took pictures today. It's Transformers HDDVD format. Displayed via Fury. It's hard to post pictures especially when you are posting right after from a screenshot that is phenomenal.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12510296
> 
> 
> MP, I saw a huge difference from all the pictures you have posted previously compared to the new pictures you posted above. It is very sharp, very 3D. There's not much adjective I can find. It's simply stunning!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, that's still from your Marquee.



naw, we're still kicking my lowly 8500..










Some changes were made in one of the source devices, but it's more obvious on the screen itself than here. Good eye!


If you're ever in the DC area, holla-at-me and come see this setup in action..

*Pioneer Blu-Ray player -> Moome HDMI card -> my lowly 8500 @ 1080P*


----------



## Chuchuf

Blood Diamond.....good movie


Terry


----------



## Lance S

Mike,


How large of a screen are you firing at? Type?


Thanks,


Lance


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lance S* /forum/post/12516478
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> How large of a screen are you firing at? Type?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Lance



It's an 80" wide Draper electric screen. I've had it for about 10 years now. Got it new from a warehouse old stock sale at a place where I used to work. I'm clueless as to what gain or anything else about it.


----------



## mp20748

Done!


----------



## dropzone7

Done? Yeah right! You will never be done Mike! Looks really nice though.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I did converge again but this time, I didn't rush. I reset everything back to factory. Then started with skew,pin,lin,key,bow before I did the 21 pt convergence and with the help of binoculars







. I'm also glad to have this Toshiba HD-A2 player since it does a good job in upconverting DVD. Below is an XMen DVD version. Projected image is 9' wide.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12517842
> 
> 
> Done!



Good, now time to move on to mods for RPCRT sets.......specifically Hitachi 51F59A models.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12520585
> 
> 
> I did converge again but this time, I didn't rush. I reset everything back to factory. Then started with skew,pin,lin,key,bow before I did the 21 pt convergence and with the help of binoculars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm also glad to have this Toshiba HD-A2 player since it does a good job in upconverting DVD. Below is an XMen DVD version. Projected image is 9' wide.



Very impressive. God I love CRTs.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12519799
> 
> 
> Done? Yeah right! You will never be done Mike!



I know... I meant finished with my last project..









*Pioneer Blu-Ray -> Moome HDMI -> Lowly 8500 kicking it at 1080P*


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12517842
> 
> 
> Done!





Awesome fleshtones, Mike! And incredible dimensionality -


I just want to reach out and plant a big one on those lips!












Mr Bob


----------



## imprez25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12520585
> 
> 
> I did converge again but this time, I didn't rush. I reset everything back to factory. Then started with skew,pin,lin,key,bow before I did the 21 pt convergence and with the help of binoculars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm also glad to have this Toshiba HD-A2 player since it does a good job in upconverting DVD. Below is an XMen DVD version. Projected image is 9' wide.



Very nice, any other shots?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imprez25* /forum/post/12526314
> 
> 
> Very nice, any other shots?



Thanks buddy! If I find some free time tonight, I will post pictures again.


----------



## geisemann

Not to be a bad judge of image quality.


How can we look at these images considering most of us have LCD montors on our computers..


I have looked at some of these screen shots and a lot seem out of focus and poor blacks but that because I am watching them on a LCD montor? Need to load these into your HTPC/projector to see if they get better.


Greg


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12520585
> 
> 
> I did converge again but this time, I didn't rush. I reset everything back to factory. Then started with skew,pin,lin,key,bow before I did the 21 pt convergence and with the help of binoculars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm also glad to have this Toshiba HD-A2 player since it does a good job in upconverting DVD. Below is an XMen DVD version. Projected image is 9' wide.





So this is from an upconverted old-fashioned SD DVD? Not HD DVD?


If so, wow! Can't wait to try it on mine -











Mr Bob


----------



## PeriSoft

That's pretty nice. I'm gonna have to grab that DVD to see how it looks with my HTPC.


Here's another SD DVD for grins. I'll let you guess what movie it is...



















If it doesn't pick up, reload. Server's funny.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/12528506
> 
> 
> That's pretty nice. I'm gonna have to grab that DVD to see how it looks with my HTPC.
> 
> 
> Here's another SD DVD for grins. I'll let you guess what movie it is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't pick up, reload. Server's funny.



Incredibles


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## LastButNotLeast

Still fighting that damn herringbone, I see.

What set are you using for these? And which camera?

(It's getting hard to keep track of the players without a playbook).


----------



## CaspianM

XG1352


----------



## dropzone7

Nice Caspian! I'm glad to see the XG's represented here. I hope to have mine looking like that one day.


----------



## overclkr

Yep, the 1352 above all 8" that is LC can claim the top spot next to the G70VR.










AMAZING projector.










Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS

I agree! Very nice Caspian, I can even see your scanlines photographed! What screen size and resolution?


----------



## Brian Feldman

Beautiful image Caspian. I too had a XG-1352 and it is a wonderful projector. In many ways, I prefer it over my current projector.


----------



## CaspianM

Thanks.

Screen is a cheapo Dazian 110" diag ($40 off eBay). Gain is low not even unity.

Source is D*tv DVR HR-200 feeding 1080i signal into XG's RGBHV.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12539751
> 
> 
> Still fighting that damn herringbone, I see.
> 
> What set are you using for these? And which camera?
> 
> (It's getting hard to keep track of the players without a playbook).



Yeah, I am noticing that the h-bone only surfaces on high light content pix. DK why. Changed out my light-duty, thin portable spring-recovery USB cam->PC cable for a more expensive, nicely shielded one, which improved things a little, but as you saw, still a pain in the brighter shots. This h-bone does not show up on my pc's monitor directly, only when sent up as a hosted photo.



This is my Mitsubishi WS 73517 CRT RPTV, with 9" guns and the last of its kind from Mit, their last CRT model series before they stopped producing CRT. Self-contained rear projection, their standard big box set before they went all digital/fixed pixel. So far with their standard mylar mirror, which will soon be changed out to a front surface one from www.highreflectivemirrors.com . And will also be modded with the CraigR mod for anti-ringing, which has not been done yet.


All screenshots I have sent in to this thread have been shot on this set, including the bigger ones previous to the ones above. Which I kept intentionally small, since my shots that appear here just can't seem to compete on razor sharpness with Cliff, and Clarence, and Brian... My images viewed directly by eye at my set look just as crisp as those they sent up here, I just have not been able to capture and maintain that ultimate in crispness here on my shots!


Yet...












One year old, with overscan reduction done via shimming the entire CRT array forward towards the mirror by about 1.5", then totally redoing the optical focusing, geometry and convergence. This mod allows me to now sit 8' back from the set rather than the former 10', delivering a much larger picture to actually watch. Not quite sitting my width - Cliff you bastard!







- but gets me much closer to my images...


The cam tripod is set at 9' back, right behind my couch. Setting it forward at about 6' didn't deliver linearity in the fleshtones, had to put it back further and use the telephoto instead.


Cam is a Toshiba digital with 10x Canon optics.


I use www.imageshack.us , but see that the guys with the really primo pix here, Cliff and Clarence and a few others - the ones that maintain that incredible clarity even when sending in the bigger versions - are using another hosting website, which I may try out soon instead of image shack -



Mr Bob


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12545499
> 
> 
> The cam tripod is set at 9' back, right behind my couch. Setting it forward at about 6' didn't deliver linearity in the fleshtones, had to put it back further and use the telephoto instead.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I can't imagine what difference that would make to the camera, since you're still exposing an image of the same size, but if it works, I'm willing to try it. I can't go back much further than 9 feet without being outside, but I've been at about 6 feet, too.

But if I can't get my shots any sharper, I'm not going to bother. The picture is great in person, you may just have to take my word for it.

Very nice shots, BTW.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12545499
> 
> 
> Yeah, I am noticing that the h-bone only surfaces on high light content pix. DK why. Changed out my light-duty, thin portable spring-recovery USB cam->PC cable for a more expensive, nicely shielded one, which improved things a little, but as you saw, still a pain in the brighter shots. This h-bone does not show up on my pc's monitor directly, only when sent up as a hosted photo.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my Mitsubishi WS 73517 CRT RPTV, with 9" guns and the last of its kind from Mit, their last CRT model series before they stopped producing CRT. Self-contained rear projection, their standard big box set before they went all digital/fixed pixel. So far with their standard mylar mirror, which will soon be changed out to a front surface one from www.highreflectivemirrors.com . And will also be modded with the CraigR mod for anti-ringing, which has not been done yet.
> 
> 
> All screenshots I have sent in to this thread have been shot on this set, including the bigger ones previous to the ones above. Which I kept intentionally small, since my shots that appear here just can't seem to compete on razor sharpness with Cliff, and Clarence, and Brian... My images viewed directly by eye at my set look just as crisp as those they sent up here, I just have not been able to capture and maintain that ultimate in crispness here on my shots!
> 
> 
> Yet...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One year old, with overscan reduction done via shimming the entire CRT array forward towards the mirror by about 1.5", then totally redoing the optical focusing, geometry and convergence. This mod allows me to now sit 8' back from the set rather than the former 10', delivering a much larger picture to actually watch. Not quite sitting my width - Cliff you bastard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - but gets me much closer to my images...
> 
> 
> The cam tripod is set at 9' back, right behind my couch. Setting it forward at about 6' didn't deliver linearity in the fleshtones, had to put it back further and use the telephoto instead.
> 
> 
> Cam is a Toshiba digital with 10x Canon optics.
> 
> 
> I use www.imageshack.us , but see that the guys with the really primo pix here, Cliff and Clarence and a few others - the ones that maintain that incredible clarity even when sending in the bigger versions - are using another hosting website, which I may try out soon instead of image shack -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yo Bob. Happy Holidays.










I was just thinking the other day that I need to take my camera upstairs to do some caps on my 65" Diamond with 9" guns.


Jeeeesshh, my house are full of them.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr

IT'S A WORLD WIDE SUICIDE!


Pearl Jam Comcast:






































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr







































Cliffy


----------



## kschmit2

Projector: NEC 6 PG Plus

Video Processor: HTPC into moome ISS-HD/ISS-6020 w/Gamma

Screen: Davision Cadre No. 2, 75" wide

Camera: Canon EOS 400D (using the crap stock lens - new lens should arrive today or so)

Source: Casino Royale BD trailer

Resolution: 1920x1080i96











Kai


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12551418
> 
> 
> IT'S A WORLD WIDE SUICIDE!
> 
> 
> Pearl Jam Comcast:



That screenshot is vedder, vedder good. One of the vedder screenshots I've vedder seen.


----------



## dropzone7

That is very nice! Also Kai, great job with that 6PG+ as well! New Year's resolution time. I resolve to find a mint condition G90 in 2008! Yeah, I bet that works out about as well as my resolution to loose weight!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12551056
> 
> 
> Yo Bob. Happy Holidays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just thinking the other day that I need to take my camera upstairs to do some caps on my 65" Diamond with 9" guns.
> 
> 
> Jeeeesshh, my house are full of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



You got 9 and I've only got 3!











That 9" gun 65" Mit in your LR has every capacity to look just as good as my 73" with 9" guns, with the shots you've seen sent up here by me. I tried to tell you that when I was a guest in your home, but no, that was "the kids' TV"...! And of course we had bigger fish to fry downstairs...











I didn't know it was the 9" gun version! Oh yeah, it's capable of greatness. Its screen is smaller than mine on the same size guns so it will be brighter, and it has a glass mirror to my mylar mirror, making it brighter still, and better blacks. Can't WAIT to get my glass front surface mirror in there, in place of that factory mylar presently in my 73"...


Oh boy, I can't wait to see the initial shots of your set when you get them up here...


(wringing of hands and drooling...)



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12550585
> 
> 
> I can't imagine what difference that would make to the camera, since you're still exposing an image of the same size, but if it works, I'm willing to try it. I can't go back much further than 9 feet without being outside, but I've been at about 6 feet, too.
> 
> But if I can't get my shots any sharper, I'm not going to bother. The picture is great in person, you may just have to take my word for it.
> 
> Very nice shots, BTW.



Thanks!


I had to diminish my TV's contrast quite significantly to get everything to stay sharp and not bloomed. I have no shutter or exposure control on this Toshiba cam, with a nice wide 10x lens for high light gathering potential, the best digital I have for this purpose, with the nice Canon optics. So I have to alter my set's controls to compensate. The big lens takes in way too much light for normal TV settings, everything gets overdone and bloomed out, and defocused. Not sharp.


I took several pix of Tori Amos in concert other than the one I sent up here earlier, but I had forgotten to lower the contrast on those shots, which were much brighter than the one I sent up, and as such will have to do them over at a lowered contrast level.


I set my cam back at 9' - would love to have it be 10', but it would be knocking on my LR window - because if I have it in front of the couch at 6', the fleshtones at the top/bottom are a different shade than in the middle. Something about the frensnel/lenticular setup with RPTVs. DK why it doesn't do that to your eyes, but it DOES do it to my camera lens. Having it at 9' gives much more even fleshtones, top/bottom vs. middle.



Mr Bob


Here's what I mean, on the blooming caused by overexposure on the Tori Amos shots. This one definitely has to be reshot -


 



Cam at 6'. Notice his purple forehead

 



Cam at 9'


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12556403
> 
> 
> Here's what I mean, on the blooming caused by overexposure on the Tori Amos shots. This one definitely has to be reshot -



Yup, that's how they look. Guess I'll try dropping the contrast, though I'm at 25 now.

Darn, really thought the tripod would stay in the closet for a while.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12560627
> 
> 
> Yup, that's how they look. Guess I'll try dropping the contrast, though I'm at 25 now.
> 
> Darn, really thought the tripod would stay in the closet for a while.



I have had to have the contrast as low as 5 on some of my shots (of 63).


Now to stay in perspective, the normal contrast setting for this model of Mit - with mylar mirror - is 21, NOT 31, which would be the usual midpoint of 63.


Others with this design but with glass mirrors run their contrast at 18, which is what I plan to do once my glass mirror takes the place of my mylar one.


But 5 is low by ANYONE's standards! Yet that's what it takes to get my cam to not overexpose, on really bright content. Looks completely dim to the naked eye, but serves up a dynamite photo.


Go figure!


The brighter shots of the King Kong series above were shot at 8 on the brighter ones, 10 on the dimmer ones. The overexposed Tori Amos shot was, I think, shot at around 15, which was obviously too much.


You're not far away from attaining good shots yourself, I can feel it...













Mr Bob


PS - I am at a Sheraton, using their stuff, and on this PC monitor the KK ones I shot above appear UNderexposed. So I guess I coulda had them be a bit brighter, with contrast not so much in the diminished zone after all...


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12562778
> 
> 
> You're not far away from attaining good shots yourself, I can feel it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



On the Don't Dump Your CRT thread. See what you think.

Can I get some sleep, now?









Michael


----------



## Mr Bob

As I said over there, not bad.


Can't compete with some of the shots here, but then neither can mine -


Glad you could plug in my suggestions and achieve the improvements!












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> On the Don't Dump Your CRT thread. See what you think.
> 
> Can I get some sleep, now?
> 
> Michael



As I said over there, not bad.


Can't compete with some of the shots here, but then neither can mine -


Glad you could plug in my suggestions and achieve the improvements!












Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

2001 HD DVD


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr

























































Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

Spectacular Cliff.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/12572497
> 
> 
> Spectacular Cliff.



Thanks.










That one took some work. It was pretty difficult.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Now that I've finally done 2001, I'm looking at Art's shot and trying to figure out which one is more accurate in color.


Opinions? Sorry I was not able to get the exact frame. It's a PITA trying to pause my Toshiba Player.





















Cliff


----------



## Fellenz

Cliff,


Are both of those screens taken with the same camera, that looks like a pretty dramatic difference if both displays are calibrated.


Erik


----------



## overclkr

Nope. Not the same Camera. I believe Art used a SLR for his shot.


I'm curious as to the color of the chairs especially.


Cliff


----------



## Zues

I think the chairs ar more accurate on the crts, more of a red- maroon than orange, but there seems to be a pinkish error that should not be there.


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliff- it's impossible to tell because I don't think the white balance on either camera was accurately set on either shot. If both have been calibrated by Ken to D65K, sure the primaries/secondaries are different but the difference shouldn't be that large.


----------



## BFJ 96

Those 2001 shots are amazing... This whole thread has been amazing.... I see Mr. Bob has posted some shots of his RPTV. I know another thread was started due to non-CRT PJ posting pictures. Would you guys mind another RPTV Owner posting some screens from his CRT


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/12573915
> 
> 
> Those 2001 shots are amazing... This whole thread has been amazing.... I see Mr. Bob has posted some shots of his RPTV. I know another thread was started due to non-CRT PJ posting pictures. Would you guys mind another RPTV Owner posting some screens from his CRT



All shots are welcome here.












Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

Nice shots guys. As for the 2001 shots, I definitly think there's something wrong with the color balance on the cameras on each shot. There's just no way they'd be that different if they were both calibrated to D65 with the calibrator.


Okay random question. What are you guys using for test patterns for the PS3? I need a pluge pattern with BTB, 2 IRE, and 4 IRE like the one on DVE. I know the blu rays have 4 internal patterns, but they don't have one I can use to set brightness.


----------



## overclkr

Here is a shot I found via google:











Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Another:











Mine:











Cliff


----------



## NautikaL

Just terrible Cliff. Your second image doesn't work because you're a nasty hot-linker, and in your third post, the first image doesn't load. Cliff, perhaps you should use this forum a bit more







.


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12574570
> 
> 
> All shots are welcome here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Okay, then here's my contribution from my Hitachi 57F59. This was a shot Mike had from Planet Earth. I think I finally have the white balance figured out. And I obviously don't have it as dark as he does. The one on the left is Mom.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## BFJ 96




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12574570
> 
> 
> All shots are welcome here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Thanks

.


Hitachi 57' CRT Calibrated by Kevin Miller ISFTV

Canon Power-Shot SX100IS

*Blade Runner HD DVD running via XBOX 360 Add-On*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob

























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12573838
> 
> 
> Cliff- it's impossible to tell because I don't think the white balance on either camera was accurately set on either shot. If both have been calibrated by Ken to D65K, sure the primaries/secondaries are different but the difference shouldn't be that large.



You guys might want to go back and find the stuff I wrote earlier on this thread about grayscale vs. color decoding. They are NOT the same!


The grayscales on the 2 displays in question are pretty much the same, if not completely identical. If both were set by Ken, I am sure they are identical to each other. The whites are cream white, just like they are supposed to be, the gray of his suit is the same in both cases.


Grayscale is STRICTLY for the b/w info, when there is no color. There is no color in the white of the background. There is no color in the guy's suit. The blacks have no colorations at all. All is as it should be, on the grayscale, on both pix.


The color comes in on the chairs in the background and on his fleshtones, and yes those are massively different.


This is done early on, most likely in the scaler in this case, but in any event where the colors are deciphered. To have something show up in pure red on one gun, that section of the pic in the blue and green guns is nonexistent, it's black. To have something show up in pure green, blue and red are nonexistent in those areas of their guns. NONE of this is dependent on how the grayscale has been set up on that particular display. The grayscales can be totally identical, and still have these massive differences show up where the colorations are concerned. That's color DECODING.


Guy Kuo did an incredible writeup on this years ago somewhere around here, probably at the SPot. Have no idea how to get ahold of it now, it was years ago, but as the designer/creator of AVIA, he definitely knows what he's talking about, on this type of thing. I read it rabidly, and soaked up ALL of it.


The color decoding is what makes those 2 pix different. It is what would have to be attacked, to get them to be the same. Not the grayscale.


Now whether it is in the cameras involved or the pj setups involved, THAT is still undecided...



Mr Bob


PS - awesome shots, guys!


Mike, I think you have definitely nailed your colorations and fleshtones, tho we wouldn't know for sure without HD color bars patterns - like those from my Accupel - and complete color isolation to work with, which is obviously easy with front pj triple gun tech. Just cover 2 lenses at a time. You've obviously gotten it incredibly close, enough for delicious suspension of disbelief in any case, and probably perfect. I think it would fly at 100% efficacy, if double-checked by my equipment.


And even if your grayscale has been set by optical comparator, I think it's excellent right now, and don't think you'll improve it using a color analyzer. The Runco guys held a color analyzer shootout a couple of years ago at CES, and guess what they used for the original setup that everything was based on?


An optical comparator!



Cliff, I love the transparency of your starfield shots, how that ship just hangs there in 3D, with no haziness around it. Absolutely crystal clear!


And Merry Xmas to all!


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12574982
> 
> 
> Just terrible Cliff. Your second image doesn't work because you're a nasty hot-linker, and in your third post, the first image doesn't load. Cliff, perhaps you should use this forum a bit more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Seems to be an ImageShack problem. A couple of mine are lost, too. Also others (Mike's, I think). Trying again now and having trouble with their site. So Cliff may be off the hook.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12574999
> 
> 
> Okay, then here's my contribution from my Hitachi 57F59. This was a shot Mike had from Planet Earth. I think I finally have the white balance figured out. And I obviously don't have it as dark as he does. The one on the left is Mom.




I see the link, but your shot is not displaying on my monitor. All the others are, including your other shots. Is anyone else having problems seeing this shot?


Nice shots, on Blade Runner. Your convergence is very tight.


Not as transparent as it could be, tho. When you cleaned your optics, did you do the deeper optics also? Good that you cleaned your cam's lens, I know that has played a part in the past, on your shots being more bleary than they shoulda been -



Mr Bob


PS - (later) - yeah, thanks for fixing it, works now!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12576079
> 
> 
> Seems to be an ImageShack problem. A couple of mine are lost, too. Also others (Mike's, I think). Trying again now and having trouble with their site. So Cliff may be off the hook.




Cliff doesn't use Image Shack. He uses some PC thingie -



Mr Bob


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12576161
> 
> 
> I see the link, but your shot is not displaying on my monitor. All the others are, including your other shots. Is anyone else having problems seeing this shot?
> 
> 
> Nice shots, on Blade Runner. Your convergence is very tight.



Fixed. Just uploaded another picture. It was there at 1:30AM, really.

Blade Runner isn't me, but I'm sure BFJ will appreciate the suggestion.

Have a great holiday.

Michael


----------



## mp20748

Yesterday was boring, so I worked more on things for a bit more detail and sharpness...

*Pioneer Blu-Ray/1080P - My lowly 8500 / Moome HDMI*


----------



## nashou66

Good Morning Mike and Merry Christmass! I have to say these last batches of shots are the best i have yet to see from your Marquee! I catn belive how much more improved they are with your MP Moome card. I must get that done to mine (2) as well!!!!


Keep up the great work !


Athanasios


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12572580
> 
> 
> Sorry I was not able to get the exact frame. It's a PITA trying to pause my Toshiba Player.
> 
> Cliff



I have a A2, and page 35 of the manual shows frame by frame playback. I downloaded the A20 manual, and it looks to be the same. Page 35 is (I hope) attached below.

Hope that helps, since you seem to be doing just great otherwise.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/12582959
> 
> 
> I have a A2, and page 35 of the manual shows frame by frame playback. I downloaded the A20 manual, and it looks to be the same. Page 35 is (I hope) attached below.
> 
> Hope that helps, since you seem to be doing just great otherwise.



Yeah, but the only thing that sucks is EVERY disc I've used so far does NOT support frame by frame advance.










Happy Holidays.










Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob

So frame by frame pb is how to get rid of the pause bar? I need to know how to do that!


If the disc does not support that, perhaps slo-mo? Works on my DVR...



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12582599
> 
> 
> Yesterday was boring, so I worked more on things for a bit more detail and sharpness...



Mike, how do you get Image Shack to not make the shots they send up, into a link to their site automatically? I can manually strip that link stuff off, but on multiple shots that takes forever...



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12583557
> 
> 
> Mike, how do you get Image Shack to not make the shots they send up, into a link to their site automatically? I can manually strip that link stuff off, but on multiple shots that takes forever...
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I select "multiploder" then upload the files to a folder that I place them in from the camera. I usually delete the ones I don't want to upload. And I only choose no more than 4 at one time. Some times I'll do three at at time, because the more you do at once the slower the upload.


Once I get them uploaded, that's when the manual parts comes in. If a group of three is chosen for upload, I'll have to copy from each of the three one at a time. And I've been choosing the one that starts with ""


Now that's about all I know to do. This camera stuff is still rocket science to me..[IMG]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif


----------



## mp20748




----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12582971
> 
> 
> Yeah, but the only thing that sucks is EVERY disc I've used so far does NOT support frame by frame advance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



So much for another great "feature" (and a separate button on the remote). However, pressing "slow" a few times really slows it down a lot (though it doesn't say by exactly how much, but it is SLOW). You can then "pause" from there. That may help.


Good luck, and happy holidays to you (and the rest of this jolly group, too).











Michael


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12484152
> 
> 
> Hell, and after owning it all this time, I still havent figured the damn thing out......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Cliff, does yours have a Schneider lens? An online retailer I deal with has a nice Z812 IS 8MP Kodak with a 12x Schneider for half price, free shipping. If I hop on it, will it give me better screenshots than the one I am currently using, the Toshiba with the 10x Canon lens?


I can't return it, at that price. No returns on this one -




Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL

Excuse my noob question, but what's an optical comparator?


----------



## Mr Bob

It is a lightbox that produces D6500K and has a window for the display, beside or within the gray produced by the box.


You get the display's gray the same color tonality as the gray produced by the comparator.


It takes some doing to be able to use one properly, because you only get one or 2 levels of light to use, and you have to extrapolate correctly.


But it can be deadly accurate, in the right hands.



Mr Bob


----------



## NautikaL

Ahhh... I'll just stick with something like the Pantone Eye-one then







.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## crt nuts

Mike.....


Words have alluded me.....daaaammnn. thats smok'n


----------



## overclkr

Yep. Those shots ROCK!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob

Talk about being able to see the texture!


Wow!



Mr Bob


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12590126
> 
> 
> If I hop on it, will it give me better screenshots than the one I am currently using, the Toshiba with the 10x Canon lens?




Probably not if you have a good digital already. I think you just may be too close to your display.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12596405
> 
> 
> Probably not if you have a good digital already. I think you just may be too close to your display.




How can being too close to my display cause me to not have good definition??? I am 9' away on the shots that are up there now. I don't think that's too close to a 73". I am already having to use telephoto to get all the screen into the shot -



Mr Bob


----------



## Zues

Also make sure your room is very dark. You should not have to zoom. Try from 12ft if you can, i only say your too close by that moire effect in some of the pics.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12596602
> 
> 
> Also make sure your room is very dark. You should not have to zoom. Try from 12ft if you can, i only say your too close by that moire effect in some of the pics.



That moire effect is only there on high light level scenes, check it out.


DK why, but can't imagine why being closer or farther would have anything to do with it. All of the later shots were from exactly the same distance behind my couch - don't have room any further back, there's a window there - and yet only some of the shots have that moire effect, in the main King Kong grouping.


I DO have to zoom, if I want to take full advantage of having the images fill my viewfinder, thus getting max resolution. Otherwise they would have to be zoomed at some other point in the chain of events.



Mr Bob


----------



## Zues

That 73 is a monster at 8-9ft







Like any video image the closer you get to it the worse it looks. Theirs definitely a perfect distance where it will look best. Being to far is better than being to close.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/12596670
> 
> 
> That 73 is a monster at 8-9ft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like any video image the closer you get to it the worse it looks. Theirs definitely a perfect distance where it will look best. Being to far is better than being to close.



Oh, it looks gorgeous to the naked eye at 8', and yes that does make it a monster. Not QUITE as big a monster as Cliff's, as I am not sitting my width like he does. Or Art's, which is even bigger! But yes quite a monster when you're only sitting 8' away. And sharp as a tack, even at that distance. I have no problem studying the grain of the film they use to shoot movies, on it, with virtually NO convergence error at all on that screen, aside from normal fringing out at the wee edges.


And I would not have it any other way. It commands my field of view, just like I want it to. And keeps me spellbound.


And it is crisp as all getout. Just haven't been able to capture that crispness "on film" like I would like to.


I think that Image Shack reduces the actual rez of the picture when it resizes it down to a lower size. The pix that Clarence and Cliff take preserve that pristine crispness even when left fairly huge size, at least on my 21" CRT PC monitor. Both of them use a vehicle OTHER than Image Shack.


I want to experiment with those other vehicles before I give up...



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12590126
> 
> 
> Cliff, does yours have a Schneider lens? An online retailer I deal with has a nice Z812 IS 8MP Kodak with a 12x Schneider for half price, free shipping. If I hop on it, will it give me better screenshots than the one I am currently using, the Toshiba with the 10x Canon lens?
> 
> 
> I can't return it, at that price. No returns on this one -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Sorry I missed this Bob. I'm not sure if it's a Schneider lens on my camera. I know it's cheap that I can tell you for sure.........


Cliff


----------



## BFJ 96

Mr. Bob, if your getting a NEW Camera, make sure the camera has @ least:


1. Optical Image Stabilizer

2. Face Detection Technology


I believe the KODAK Camera your looking @ doesn't offer neither. Your best bet is to look @ CANON or FUJI.


You can get yourself a FUJI F40 for around $200.00


Checkout this link:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...133650&loc=111


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12596930
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Image Shack reduces the actual rez of the picture when it resizes it down to a lower size. The pix that Clarence and Cliff take preserve that pristine crispness even when left fairly huge size, at least on my 21" CRT PC monitor. Both of them use a vehicle OTHER than Image Shack.
> 
> 
> I want to experiment with those other vehicles before I give up...
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I think I'll also try out something different later tonight. I'm even looking into lowering the rez on my camera. I took an image a few minutes ago at a lower rez, but I'll have to wait until later. Because my room is not light controlled, I have to take the images at night.

*Everything the same, with only me lowering the rez on the camera to next lowest on the scale- but still far too much light in the room*


----------



## Energeezer

Mike

I've been watching this thread from the start and I have to say that your shots are def the most improved. Near the start I thought your shots left al lot to be desired especially in black detail. I know it was explained that the on screen was fine but the shots were flawed. Guess you found the issue with your camera cause they sure look fine to me now.

Cheers

Steve


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/12597835
> 
> 
> Mr. Bob, if your getting a NEW Camera, make sure the camera has @ least:
> 
> 
> 1. Optical Image Stabilizer
> 
> 2. Face Detection Technology
> 
> 
> I believe the KODAK Camera your looking @ doesn't offer neither. Your best bet is to look @ CANON or FUJI.
> 
> 
> You can get yourself a FUJI F40 for around $200.00
> 
> 
> Checkout this link:
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...133650&loc=111




Actually it has both, and the rave reviews were all maxed out - higher than the Fuji!

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...54&dcaid=17653 



Mr Bob


----------



## BFJ 96




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12600186
> 
> 
> Actually it has both, and the rave reviews were all maxed out - higher than the Fuji!
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...54&dcaid=17653
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Sounds like a winner.. Go for it..


----------



## bruce banner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12600186
> 
> 
> Actually it has both, and the rave reviews were all maxed out - higher than the Fuji!
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...54&dcaid=17653
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Hi there Mr Bob. Remember me from TXB... Forgotten Gamer. Nice to see you're still alive










oh, and hi BFJ 96.


I'm in the market for a Projector. Yep, serious Home Theater now! Don't hate


I want to get the closest to Home theater experience as possible. I see that you are hanging out in the CRT section.. no surprise there







These screen shots are better then anything i've seen! And they should! damn things cost the big money! I guess you have to pay to play with the big boys 'eh.. geez


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bruce banner* /forum/post/12600635
> 
> 
> And they should! damn things cost the big money! I guess you have to pay to play with the big boys 'eh.. geez










. CRT is pretty darn cheap now. $2000 gets you a very nice 8" Liquid Coupled (LC) set with good tubes. You won't do even equal that without spending at least $7k on a digital.


----------



## bruce banner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12601316
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . CRT is pretty darn cheap now. $2000 gets you a very nice 8" Liquid Coupled (LC) set with good tubes. You won't do even equal that without spending at least $7k on a digital.



I don't know much about CRT projectors.. I liked the G90 screens and base my price on this.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bruce banner* /forum/post/12601544
> 
> 
> I don't know much about CRT projectors.. I liked the G90 screens and base my price on this.



Well if you can spring for a G90 that's great, but if you're on a budget then a NEC XG 1352, Marquee 8500LC, or Sony G70 are the next best things (besides a 9500LC of course).


----------



## bruce banner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12601927
> 
> 
> Well if you can spring for a G90 that's great, but if you're on a budget then a NEC XG 1352, Marquee 8500LC, or Sony G70 are the next best things (besides a 9500LC of course).



Wish I could put 10k on a projector. I wan't the best.


...think i'll be heading back to the DLP projector section now. They do use DLPs in theaters so I wont feel too left out.


----------



## mp20748

This is the movie 'ULTRAVIOLET' it has the strangest look to it..

*Camera now set at the second lowest resolution (1600x1200)*


----------



## mp20748

*1600x1200*


----------



## mp20748

*These are also 1600x1200, all previous from 3072x2304*


----------



## plain fan

There should be an emoticon with its jaw on the floor....those pictures are great!


----------



## overclkr

Yep. Looking AWESOME!!


Cliffy


----------



## drjensen1

San Diegans...Mr. Bob is currently in San Diego (12/27/07) tuning up my 610. Call me (Dave) at 858-967-7189 if you are in need of a power supply repair, calibration, or optics cleaning. He will be here thru tomorrow and can extend his trip over the weekend if needed.


----------



## mp20748

I think I'm liking the camera resolution of 1600x1200 over the 3072x2304 that I've been using. It seems to show more of the sharpness I'm seeing on the screen itself. However, I also see the need to play around more with the "EXP" setting.


I got a lot of work to do with this new setting still..

*all the same with the setup (1080P). a few challenging scenes from the 5th and Alexander*


----------



## mp20748

A mixture from previous shots


----------



## mp20748

More previous shots, but all of these are at the new camera setting of 1600x1200


----------



## mark haflich

All these freeking screen shots are my fault. Does anybody know where I can get a replacement Bluray player and a copy of the Fifth Element.


Doesn't anybody watch content on the FPJs? Whoops, I forgot MP doesn't even turn the audio on ever. Center channel? Who needs a center channel. Processor, sound or video, bah. Just freeze a single frame at 1080p 60 out of my BluRay, point and shoot.


----------



## stefuel

Break out the popcorn honey. I've got some really nice test patterns to watch tonight. Would you like to invite some of your friends over to watch.


I'm so sick of screen shots and test patterns that I could puke










C.


----------



## overclkr

Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix HD DVD


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr











































































My Camera got some spotties in it for some reason. Must fix on the next round.










Cliff


----------



## mark haflich

Better your camera than your ____!


----------



## stefuel

Now you've gone and done it. You may have "spotties" on your camera but I've got chunks on my screen


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/12621510
> 
> 
> Break out the popcorn honey. I've got some really nice test patterns to watch tonight. Would you like to invite some of your friends over to watch.
> 
> 
> I'm so sick of screen shots and test patterns that I could puke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C.



Methinks perhaps you don't belong in a forum titled "Screenshot War!!!!!!!!"

We're having fun here. There are other places for you.

And my friends LIKE test patterns.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12621204
> 
> 
> All these freeking screen shots are my fault. Does anybody know where I can get a replacement Bluray player and a copy of the Fifth Element.
> 
> 
> Doesn't anybody watch content on the FPJs? Whoops, I forgot MP doesn't even turn the audio on ever. Center channel? Who needs a center channel. Processor, sound or video, bah. Just freeze a single frame at 1080p 60 out of my BluRay, point and shoot.



Dang, I forgot once more to mention that I'm using your Blu-Ray player. How do I continue to mention these things over and over - my bad..


----------



## overclkr

MHD Genesis


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr








































Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

When my projector dies it wants to come back as a minty tubed, slick cased, Moome carded, "0" hour G90!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Part 2 of the Movie: Black Book Good transfer, and probably and one of best WW2 movies I've watched (yep, I actually watched it with sound). Full of subtitles..


----------



## mp20748

back to the Xbox...

*Xbox 360 1080P /HD-DVD drive -> Marquee switcher -> lowly 8500*


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12619016
> 
> 
> A mixture from previous shots



Yeah, Mike, Ultraviolet DOES have a weird colorations motif to it, I saw that too. Like it, tho!


And isn't Milla just stunning, esp in those shades...












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bruce banner* /forum/post/12602678
> 
> 
> Wish I could put 10k on a projector. I wan't the best.
> 
> 
> ...think i'll be heading back to the DLP projector section now. They do use DLPs in theaters so I wont feel too left out.




Whoa! Nice to see you here! Why'd you change your name? I got to know you by Forgotten Gamer...



I have a fully calibrated Barco Data 800, with the 8" guns, that I'll sell you for the price that has already been mentioned here, re. equipment on the used market. It is all set up for roughly 9' throw distance, on my white wall. Would prolly have to be resized a bit for an actual screen, and retweaked a bit because of the sizing having changed. But I took very exacting measurements on the throw distance vs. the actual size of the image thrown, and if you replicate that exactly, you might not even have to reconverge it. You definitely would not have to refocus it.


But the grayscale is perfect, the contrast and brightness all ready to go, and it made dazzling images of the VOOM HD offerings before VOOM was assimilated by Dish. Haven't had it up and running since...


If you buy on the used market, those pjs are rarely already dialed in, on both the image structure and the grayscale. If you can find one that is, by a pro, then hop on it -


DK whether mine would do 1080p, don't have any p around here to test it with, but it was made for line doubling and tripling, so maybe so, and does do a dazzling 1080i -


I just don't have a dedicated room to put it in that I can use just for that purpose, and my Mit 73" is holding me for now -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Well, mp, you have inspired me on Image Shack's capabilities.


Let's try some of the KK shots a little larger -








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


I don't think the light level was high enough on the last one, plus the lack of any strong vertical structure for my cam to lock onto, for my cam to focus accurately.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12654473
> 
> 
> 
> And isn't Milla just stunning, esp in those shades...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I'm waiting on her latest Resident Evil to be released. I want to put together some shots from her and several others. I've already started collecting shots for this..


----------



## overclkr

Ahhhhh,


It's been a wonderful year. Loving these shots from the beginning.........





































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr












Yummy.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## Don_Kellogg

Thermal Bandages... Drool....


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/12663380
> 
> 
> Thermal Bandages... Drool....


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr
















































Look at that little bad ***** go.

















Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby

Cliffy is going to have the pause icon burned into all 6 tubes before this thead dies










Very Nice !!!


Mike


----------



## nashou66

Ciff!! You must be really bored!!!......But i guess when you have the master CRT set up you have time to watch movies and take screen shots while the rest of us are too busy working on getting our rigs to look half as good as yours!!!


God you suck !!!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12663545
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at that little bad ***** go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Who, Tinkerbell?












Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

Blade Runner in da house..


----------



## mp20748

Harry Potter


----------



## mp20748




----------



## PeriSoft

Great detail in those shots, Mike...










(I'm not ragging on him; inside joke.)


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/12721430
> 
> 
> Great detail in those shots, Mike...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I'm not ragging on him; inside joke.)




Yeah, but noticed that the flesh tones were off. So in doing some board testing early this morning I had to correct that. Also touched up on the focus. The convergence is a bit off, but that's something for another time.


----------



## mp20748

Finally finished my board testing. Also finished tweaking the focus and convergence on the 8500 at 1080P. A for screenshots, I still need to work on the 'EXP' on the camera, because I'm not doing so well with the darker shots.

*Blu-Ray /1080P - Marquee 8500 Ultra /Moome HDMI*


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

These really needed the 'EXP' tweaked..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Playing around with the 8500 this morning and for the first time In awhile, I cranked up the contrast... that made me run and get the camera and take a few shots.


With the contrast now set at 68..







, it got much punchier and more colorful. And it still maintained the same sharpness. Set still cold, so convergence is off..


----------



## g-man5.1

Very nice Mike. It just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I'm thinking that no one can touch the stuff Xylon does


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12807611
> 
> 
> I'm thinking that no one can touch the stuff Xylon does



I was under the impression that Xylon's pics were all screen grabs. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't seen all his posts.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Meaning that they are files taken from his computer not with a camera from the screen ?


Art


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12807806
> 
> 
> Meaning that they are files taken from his computer not with a camera from the screen ?
> 
> 
> Art



Yeah, that's what I always thought, but according to the Mrs. I have been wrong before.


----------



## kschmit2

Xylon's files are screencaps, not screenshots. I.e. they are digital captures of the decoded streams, not photos of a projected image.

So, what he posts is what's on the discs.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Mike, those are amazing shots at your post #1291!!!


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/12809726
> 
> 
> Xylon's files are screencaps, not screenshots. I.e. they are digital captures of the decoded streams, not photos of a projected image.
> 
> So, what he posts is what's on the discs.



Got it ,thanks !










Art


----------



## mp20748

now back to my main camera. I thought it was defective, because it started to show the images pixelated. Went to the HP, but that did not work out, so I went back to my A560 and whata ya know. It was the speed setting. It was set at a very high number. Put it back to 80 and all seems to be well now..


----------



## Mr Bob

Mike, I'd say "reality viewing" would apply to your setup, things look so REAL in your shots...












Mr Bob


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez

Man what you guys doing here.. trying to copy taking pictures of Casino Royale? I did that first, early part last year!!!! lol










Some of the skin tones in the screenshots are a little too hot, but I'm sure that's coming from the camera, not your TV. Your TV has more truer pictures, aight? Your post# 1301, the last pic, I actually like it quite a lot. That's a nice capture, good colors and solid. It's got just the right amount of contrast, descent blacks, and clean.


Nevertheless, great picture taking. I'm not gonna come and rain any parade here... not my thang.



.... and just for kicks, and don't mind plasma pics, and want to check out Asian stuff, go clickie my signature and browse last 2~ 3 pages..







lolz


.


----------



## Alan Gouger

IamAnoobieCheez


I took a look at your pictures. Wow. Very colorful and natural looking. Very nice.


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/12829756
> 
> 
> IamAnoobieCheez
> 
> 
> I took a look at your pictures. Wow. Very colorful and natural looking. Very nice.



Hey thanks Alan Gouger. It is much much appreciated!


----------



## lydmann

Hi MP, nice pictures now when you crank up the crontast, I have allways thought you have a bit dark pictures, but now it is much better almost to bright  I like the James bond picture, very nice.


----------



## lydmann

Cliffy, you are awasome. All of your pictures are so good and sharp!. Is it a pure G90 whitout modding, or is it modd?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## dario2

*overclkr* you screenshot are wonderful, what is your setup?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lydmann* /forum/post/12832598
> 
> 
> Cliffy, you are awasome. All of your pictures are so good and sharp!. Is it a pure G90 whitout modding, or is it modd?



Thanks very much!!!!!










My G90's are stock. No mods. My video chain is HDMI to the distribution amp which is analog to the PJ's.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dario2* /forum/post/12838066
> 
> *overclkr* you screenshot are wonderful, what is your setup?



Thanks!!


I'm running 2 Sony VPH-G90's stacked/blue ray/hd dvd/Dtheater/VP50/Pioneer 94TXH.


Appreciate the nice comment!


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12839091
> 
> 
> Thanks very much!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No mods.
> 
> 
> Cliff



for now that is..










Sometime first part of this year, I'm expecting those two G90's to have MP mods...


when that happens.. no question, I'll be king at this mod thing..










therefore all props will be in order..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12841496
> 
> 
> for now that is..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometime first part of this year, I'm expecting those two G90's to have MP mods...
> 
> 
> when that happens.. no question, I'll be king at this mod thing..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> therefore all props will be in order..



All props have been in order for many years thanks to your hard work.










Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12842702
> 
> 
> All props have been in order for many years thanks to your hard work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



You're a great guy Cliff, and you've always been so mindful to put all props in order. And that's one of the reason I want to make 1080P/72 happen. There's a few people I would really like to make this happen for - and you're one of them. You told me I could make 1080P/72 happen on a G90, and you're right..


Thanks for giving me the props on that, and now it's getting nearer to the time for me to make that happen..


I still have a G90 in route today...


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

It's been a while since I last posted a screenshot. I think, it's more than a month now. Fortunately, I was able to steal some time this evening.







I took some shots from Smallville(WGN) and Terminator(FOX). I think the Smallville is a repeat.


----------



## Mr Bob












The Queen's performance in 300 knocked my socks off. Not bad eye candy either, in some of those scenes...


Have you guys caught her in the new Fox series, Terminator: The Sarah Conners Chronicles? She has that veiled intensity that abruptly becomes very UNveiled, in the clinch -



Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12853505
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I last posted a screenshot. I think, it's more than a month now. Fortunately, I was able to steal some time this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took some shots from Smallville(WGN) and Terminator(FOX). I think the Smallville is a repeat.



You are doing a great job with that little projector! Looks nice!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12853505
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I last posted a screenshot. I think, it's more than a month now. Fortunately, I was able to steal some time this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took some shots from Smallville(WGN) and Terminator(FOX). I think the Smallville is a repeat.



Not bad for broadcast HD! Actually pretty awesome. The gleam in the eyes is intense!



Mr Bob


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/12854236
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Queen's performance in 300 knocked my socks off. Not bad eye candy either, in some of those scenes...
> 
> 
> Have you guys caught her in the new Fox series, Terminator: The Sarah Conners Chronicles? She has that veiled intensity that abruptly becomes very UNveiled, in the clinch -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I can't believe that Lena Headey is the same person from 300 and Terminator until you mentioned it.







All I can say is, she's very beautiful! Btw, awesome screenshot there!!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12854539
> 
> 
> You are doing a great job with that little projector! Looks nice!



Thanks buddy!


----------



## overclkr

how long will it take


----------



## overclkr

for me to get to the next page.


SWEET!!!


----------



## overclkr

Shoot Em Up Blue Ray 1080P PS3


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## dropzone7

He's back! Just when things start to settle down Cliffy comes along and smacks us all in the head with 6 guns!

















Those looks schweet!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12859958
> 
> 
> He's back! Just when things start to settle down Cliffy comes along and smacks us all in the head with 6 guns!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those looks schweet!




LOL THANKS!










Although this movie is VERY disturbing, the transfer probably puts it up within the top 10 of HD DVD and Blue Ray.


Hope you guys like!


Cliff


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12859993
> 
> 
> Although this movie is VERY disturbing
> 
> Cliff



Ah, I should love it then!










Do you have Pan's Labyrinth? I bet your setup would really make that movie shine. I thought it looked great even on my HD cable providers feed.


----------



## overclkr

No I sure dont. Is it out on HDM?


Cliff


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12860064
> 
> 
> No I sure dont. Is it out on HDM?
> 
> 
> Cliff



Yep and it's got a 7.1 DTS-MA track.


----------



## overclkr

Sweet! I'll have to pick it up. The only thing that sucks is my PS3 is unable to do MA YET.


Cliff


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/12829099
> 
> 
> 
> .... and just for kicks, and don't mind plasma pics, and want to check out Asian stuff, go clickie my signature and browse last 2~ 3 pages..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lolz
> 
> 
> .



I like this one:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/8646109
> 
> 
> Here is one pretty pic.... for 9UK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TH50PH9UK



You got good taste. It's always nice to see some Otsuka Ai










And Ayaka performing Mikazuki:


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12853505
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I last posted a screenshot. I think, it's more than a month now. Fortunately, I was able to steal some time this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took some shots from Smallville...



Nice color... smooth without being too soft.


Excellent presentation from any projector, but especially from a 1272.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12860944
> 
> 
> Nice color... smooth without being too soft.
> 
> 
> Excellent presentation from any projector, but especially from a 1272.



Thank you so much!


Last night, I was searching for some static 1920x1080 images. I found some from one of your posts. The filenames are pete-eye-1920x1080.png and pete-eye.jpg. I believe the latter has a dimension of 4800x2250.


Anyways, I projected it, right after it got displayed







, my head just kept on moving sideways back and forth and saying WOW with a big grin on the smile. It was like a cult that I kept on switching back and forth between your 2 pictures. HEHEHE










By the way, those 2 pictures are really high quality images. I didn't see any pixelization when I opened it in my laptop.


I'll post a screenshot later.










Thanks again!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff,

I've yet to see Shoot Em Up,would you recommensd it for an evenings "A" film for more than screen shots?


Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/12862658
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I've yet to see Shoot Em Up,would you recommensd it for an evenings "A" film for more than screen shots?
> 
> 
> Art



I haven't seen the whole movie yet big dog. The picture and sound though is to die for.


As far as for being more than screen shots, think of Sin City on Steroids. What I have seen so far is pretty gory.










Cliff


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Clarence,


As promised, here is the screenshot of pete-eye taken 17' from screen. This file is the 4800x2250 image. Sorry about the wires on the right







. It's the powerchord, hdmi cable and another single rca cable. I didn't notice the power chord since it was dark.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Here is the 1920x1080 with exposure -2 lower from above picture











Screenshots of last week's episode of Moonlight






























Screenshots of Today's episode of Moonlight


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12863355
> 
> 
> Here is the 1920x1080 with exposure -2 lower from above picture




Here's my screenshot of "Pete's" Eye. NEC 6PG Plus, 1920x1080i at 95.904 Hz:


----------



## luptong

Crt front projectors seem to have much better color than digital. Is this the case or just the impression I'm getting from these high quality screenshots?.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/12864948
> 
> 
> Here's my screenshot of "Pete's" Eye. NEC 6PG Plus, 1920x1080i at 95.904 Hz:



That is quite nice!!!


I opened the untouched original file from my laptop and found out my projector colors are off







I need to work on it


Here is the original file











EDIT: It's weird that the image is being shown on a smaller scale. Is it small on your screen too? But anyways, that's the real color.


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12865939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: It's weird that the image is being shown on a smaller scale. Is it small on your screen too? But anyways, that's the real color.



yup, small here too. I guess you uploaded the full resolution pic to imageshack? If so, Imageshack will downsize any pic that is larger than 1.5 MB (it doesn't care about file dimensions iirc, so long as the file size is below 1.5 MB). Of course it doesn't make sense to compress Pete's image to 1.5 MB while maintaining the file dimensions, so you should resize it first, and then create a JPG file with as high a quality as you can get. Ideally save as PNG, but that would most likely be too big for imageshack and you would have to look for another host.


Kai


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *luptong* /forum/post/12865668
> 
> 
> Crt front projectors seem to have much better color than digital. Is this the case or just the impression I'm getting from these high quality screenshots?.



This is just my opinion. I guess the reason why CRT projectors are better than digital is because of the blacks. Some digital projectors makes blacks color gray. Again, this is just my opinion.


----------



## AFryia

My turn. OTA HD on G70 untouched pics from Canon 300D/Rebel. Pete's Eye (HTPC)


----------



## mp20748

I like these low lit inside scenes...


----------



## overclkr

Mike those shots look incredible. Awesome!


Cliff


----------



## kschmit2

NEC 6PG Plus, 1920x1080i96


Gladiator OAR:


----------



## kschmit2




----------



## dropzone7

kschmit2, your little PG never ceases to amaze! Very nice!


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12886887
> 
> 
> kschmit2, your little PG never ceases to amaze! Very nice!



That's exactly how I feel










Kai


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12863355



Wow, hold up now! How did I miss her?!?!


----------



## DVD MAN

I just pick up the Sony DSC -T70 16:9 Dig Camera. Will anyone know what is the best set up to take screenshots?


----------



## mp20748

*Verizon Fios 1080I*


----------



## dropzone7

Can't get my camera to do what I want it to. These are pretty close to what I am seeing.


----------



## mp20748

Now back to 1080P...


----------



## dropzone7

MP, I can't decide if that little panda is cute or just scary as hell. It looks like he is ringing his paws together and plotting something evil...Muuuuhahaha!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12904587
> 
> 
> MP, I can't decide if that little panda is cute or just scary as hell. It looks like he is ringing his paws together and plotting something evil...Muuuuhahaha!



Very interesting.... of all the shots, you focused on that one. when i look at the panda, all I see is a cute little baby panda... when you look at it you see evil..










Sorry, but this goes right over my head..


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12905900
> 
> 
> Very interesting.... of all the shots, you focused on that one. when i look at the panda, all I see is a cute little baby panda... when you look at it you see evil..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but this goes right over my head..



Yeah, I guess I'm kind of weird like that.










Seriously, all of your shots are great as usual. Looks like you are getting some really great light output there!


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12905970
> 
> 
> Looks like you are getting some really great light output there!



That, and he finally turned his contrast up.

Beautiful.


----------



## effecci

[email protected] 90" on XBOX360


----------



## nashou66

stacked marquee 8000 and 8500 slight mods by me ! 1080p48 12 foot screen !!!!



















Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

Contrast 68 -


----------



## nashou66

Just realized my pause function sucks on this LG BH100, no matter what i do it slightly blurs. Need to fix the colors on my one PJ the red is pushing a bit since i added hd 144's I jst cant get the colors right.


Stacked Marquees.......8000 and 8500.....

















































Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12904359
> 
> 
> Now back to 1080P...



Mike, not that I know anything about anything but I personally prefer your 1080i pics from the FIOS above.


----------



## overclkr

I've chosen today as screenshot day!!!!!


----------



## mp20748

*Blu-Ray/1080P -> Lowly 8500 w/Moome HDMI*


----------



## tomson1973

These are pictures of my Marquee 9500LC Ultra in 1080i HD DVD Scaling by Holo II HD Aux Card to 1080p.

Works perfect and extremly clear!!

More pictures will follow.


Tom


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomson1973* /forum/post/12945129
> 
> 
> These are pictures of my Marquee 9500LC Ultra in 1080i HD DVD Scaling by Holo II HD Aux Card to 1080p.
> 
> Works perfect and extremly clear!!
> 
> More pictures will follow.



Awesome Tom, they have great uniformity, sharpness/detail and contrast. What size/type screen are you using?


----------



## tomson1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12951409
> 
> 
> Awesome Tom, they have great uniformity, sharpness/detail and contrast. What size/type screen are you using?



Hello Gino,


i run the marquee with 2,60m X 1,40 size.


Tom


----------



## kschmit2

Tom, your screenshots look awesome


Kai


----------



## Paul Butler

Tom, Mike

What lenses do you have on the Marquee?

Paul


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomson1973* /forum/post/12945129
> 
> 
> These are pictures of my Marquee 9500LC Ultra in 1080i HD DVD Scaling by Holo II HD Aux Card to 1080p.
> 
> Works perfect and extremly clear!!
> 
> More pictures will follow.
> 
> 
> Tom





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ImageDescription -
> 
> Make - NIKON
> 
> Model - E5700
> 
> Orientation - Top left
> 
> XResolution - 300
> 
> YResolution - 300
> 
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> Software - E5700v1.0
> 
> DateTime - 2007:11:14 21:54:55
> 
> YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
> 
> ExifOffset - 284
> *ExposureTime - 8 seconds*
> 
> FNumber - 3.90
> 
> ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
> *ISOSpeedRatings - 400*
> 
> ExifVersion - 0220
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2007:11:14 21:54:55
> 
> DateTimeDigitized - 2007:11:14 21:54:55
> 
> ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
> 
> CompressedBitsPerPixel - 3 (bits/pixel)
> 
> ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
> 
> MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
> 
> MeteringMode - Center weighted average
> 
> LightSource - Auto
> 
> Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
> 
> FocalLength - 14.70 mm
> 
> UserComment -
> 
> FlashPixVersion - 0100
> 
> ColorSpace - sRGB
> 
> ExifImageWidth - 2560
> 
> ExifImageHeight - 1920
> 
> InteroperabilityOffset - 1026
> 
> FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
> 
> SceneType - A directly photographed image
> 
> CustomRendered - Normal process
> 
> ExposureMode - Auto
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> DigitalZoomRatio - 0.00 x
> 
> FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 57 mm
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Standard
> 
> GainControl - Low gain up
> 
> Contrast - Normal
> 
> Saturation - Normal
> 
> Sharpness - Normal
> 
> SubjectDistanceRange - Unknown



8 seconds on ISO 400










That's 32x more exposure than a more typical 1 sec at ISO 100. Maybe Auto mode was fighting to overcompensate for the dark scenes.


I love the extra detail shown in Kong's forehead, but does the native frame shows that much? Is that what it looks like on your screen?


Regardless of the exposure levels, the focus, sharpness, convergence, and uniformity look incredible.


----------



## mp20748

Playing around with the "LANDSCAPE" setting in the camera for the first time. That setting blocks out most of the camera settings, which makes it easier to point and shoot. I like the way it looks so far, but can't tell what resolution the camera is using...


----------



## g-man5.1

Awesome screenshots Mike! I wish my 8500 looked half as good.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12959977
> 
> 
> Playing around with the "LANDSCAPE" setting in the camera for the first time. That setting blocks out most of the camera settings, which makes it easier to point and shoot. I like the way it looks so far, but can't tell what resolution the camera is using...



Those look good. Nice shadow detail in the last one abd the bright spots in her skin are under the clipping limit.


Here are the settings LANDSCAPE mode used:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make - Canon
> 
> Model - Canon PowerShot A560
> 
> Orientation - Top left
> 
> XResolution - 180
> 
> YResolution - 180
> 
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> DateTime - 2008:01:28 05:57:52
> 
> YCbCrPositioning - Centered
> 
> ExifOffset - 196
> 
> ExposureTime - 1/2.5 seconds
> 
> FNumber - 2.60
> *ISOSpeedRatings - 80*
> 
> ExifVersion - 0220
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2008:01:28 05:57:52
> 
> DateTimeDigitized - 2008:01:28 05:57:52
> 
> ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
> 
> CompressedBitsPerPixel - 5 (bits/pixel)
> *ShutterSpeedValue - 1/2 seconds*
> *ApertureValue - F 2.59*
> *ExposureBiasValue - -0.67*
> 
> MaxApertureValue - F 2.59
> 
> MeteringMode - Multi-segment
> 
> Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
> 
> FocalLength - 5.80 mm
> 
> UserComment -
> 
> FlashPixVersion - 0100
> 
> ColorSpace - sRGB
> 
> ExifImageWidth - 1600
> 
> ExifImageHeight - 1200
> 
> InteroperabilityOffset - 3334
> 
> FocalPlaneXResolution - 7111.11
> 
> FocalPlaneYResolution - 7100.59
> 
> FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
> 
> FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
> 
> CustomRendered - Normal process
> 
> ExposureMode - Manual
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> DigitalZoomRatio - 1.00 x
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Landscape
> 
> 
> Maker Note (Vendor): -
> 
> Macro mode - Normal
> *Self timer* - 20/10 sec
> 
> Quality - *Superfine*
> 
> Flash mode - Not fired
> 
> Sequence mode - Single or Timer
> 
> Focus mode - Single
> *Image size - Large*
> 
> Easy shooting mode - *Landscape*
> 
> Digital zoom - None
> 
> Contrast - Normal
> 
> Saturation - Normal
> 
> Sharpness - Normal
> 
> ISO Value - Auto
> 
> Metering mode - Evaluative
> 
> Focus type - Auto
> 
> AF point selected - Auto AF point selection
> 
> Exposure mode - Easy shooting
> 
> Focal length - 5800 - 23200 mm (1000 mm)
> 
> Flash activity -
> 
> Flash details -
> 
> Focus mode 2 - Single
> 
> White Balance - Auto
> 
> Sequence number - 0
> 
> Flash bias - 0 EV
> 
> Subject Distance - 130 *interesting, I've never noticed this parameter before... 130" = 10.8' away from screen*
> 
> Image Type - IMGowerShot A560 JPEG
> 
> Firmware Version - Firmware Version 1.00
> 
> Image Number - 1004959
> 
> Owner Name -
> 
> 
> Thumbnail: -
> 
> Compression - 6 (JPG)
> 
> XResolution - 180
> 
> YResolution - 180
> 
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> 
> JpegIFOffset - 5108
> 
> JpegIFByteCount - 2801


----------



## mp20748

Thanks for that Clarence. Those numbers indicate a lot of things. It's really amazing to see that much data also being in the images.


I've taking a few shots from Kong hoping to get a better look at the differences being in the "Landscape" mode. Not really sure of what I'm seeing so far, but I like this setting better than anything before..

*Xbox 360 HD-DVD/1080P -> Lowly 8500*


----------



## dropzone7

I really need to work on my convergence. Blue is out really bad here. Just been enjoying watching some stuff for a change.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

dropzone7, those are really cool shots! I have a question. I'm very impressed with your last picture. How did you take it? I've been trying with my Canon Powershot SD400 and it cannot do good screenshots on dim scenes.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/12964537
> 
> 
> dropzone7, those are really cool shots! I have a question. I'm very impressed with your last picture. How did you take it? I've been trying with my Canon Powershot SD400 and it cannot do good screenshots on dim scenes.



Thanks! I'm really trying to get better, not only at the convergence but also at my screen shots. Here is the data from the last picture. I just played around with "manual" mode until I got something that closely resembled what I was seeing on the screen.


File Name: DSC02008.jpg (rename)


.jpg ok cancel

Taken With: SONY DSC-H7

File Size: 171 kb - 1024x768 Taken On: 2008:01:28 22:40:31

Camera Make: SONY Camera Model: DSC-H7

Date/Time: 2008:01:28 22:40:31 Resolution: 1024 x 768

Flash Used: No Focal Length: 5.2mm

Exposure Time: 0.333 s (1/3) Aperture: f/2.7

ISO Equiv.: 100 Whitebalance: Manual

Metering Mode: matrix Exposure: Manual

Exposure Mode: Manual Exposure Mode: Auto bracketing


----------



## dropzone7

I took this one last night as well but did not post it at first because I thought the shadows made it look like she had a brown nose!


----------



## Maggie Guy

Here's an older screen shot with my Cannon G2, recently got the Rebel XTi and will have to see what I can do with that camera.


----------



## tomson1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Paul Butler* /forum/post/12958798
> 
> 
> Tom, Mike
> 
> What lenses do you have on the Marquee?
> 
> Paul




Hello,


I use the GT17 lenses. Works perfect for 2,60 X 1,4 Screens!









I have a green and a red C Element!


Tom


----------



## tomson1973




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12959133
> 
> 
> 8 seconds on ISO 400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's 32x more exposure than a more typical 1 sec at ISO 100. Maybe Auto mode was fighting to overcompensate for the dark scenes.
> 
> 
> I love the extra detail shown in Kong's forehead, but does the native frame shows that much? Is that what it looks like on your screen?
> 
> 
> Regardless of the exposure levels, the focus, sharpness, convergence, and uniformity look incredible.




Yes it does! In natural it looks even better!!!

I use the 6 Pole Astig in my Marquee.


Tom


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12959133
> 
> 
> 8 seconds on ISO 400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's 32x more exposure than a more typical 1 sec at ISO 100. Maybe Auto mode was fighting to overcompensate for the dark scenes.
> 
> 
> I love the extra detail shown in Kong's forehead, but does the native frame shows that much? Is that what it looks like on your screen?
> 
> 
> Regardless of the exposure levels, the focus, sharpness, convergence, and uniformity look incredible.




It would be interesting to see MP take this same screen shot for comparison. Of course, not being the same camera, settings, etc. it might not say much but I would be curious to compare the level of detail. We all know he has the King Kong movie.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12969179
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see MP take this same screen shot for comparison. Of course, not being the same camera, settings, etc. it might not say much but I would be curious to compare the level of detail. We all know he has the King Kong movie.



I can do that. I can take that same shot, however, close up shots say very little about bandwidth and overall performance. There's no challenge at all with in your face shots.


The real test comes when the shots are taking showing background detail, and clarity in the far backgrounds. When that's done right, it's easy to evaluate the performance of the system..


Now, If anyone wants to do some real comparisons, let me know..










Here's an easy one to start with:


----------



## kschmit2

Screenshot time again:


NEC 6PG Plus 1080i96 moome ISS-HD

source: Blu-ray - Otsuka Ai - Love is Born 4th Anniversary 2007 concert.



















































































Kai


----------



## kschmit2




































































Kai


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12969632
> 
> 
> I can do that. I can take that same shot, however, close up shots say very little about bandwidth and overall performance. There's no challenge at all with in your face shots.
> 
> 
> The real test comes when the shots are taking showing background detail, and clarity in the far backgrounds. When that's done right, it's easy to evaluate the performance of the system..
> 
> 
> Now, If anyone wants to do some real comparisons, let me know..



Mike, I agree completely. I suppose that's why most of us are always posting those closeup shots! I did not mean to single you out for this comparison but I figured it would be a good benchmark as I consider your shots to be among the best around here not to mention being the Marquee Master!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12970053
> 
> 
> Mike, I agree completely. I suppose that's why most of us are always posting those closeup shots! I did not mean to single you out for this comparison but I figured it would be a good benchmark as I consider your shots to be among the best around here not to mention being the Marquee Master!



Wait now, on being the Marquee master. Let's look at things again in about another month....by then I should be wearing two crowns.


I'll be the Marquee and G90 mod master..


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12970282
> 
> 
> Wait now, on being the Marquee master. Let's look at things again in about another month....by then I should be wearing two crowns.
> 
> 
> I'll be the Marquee and G90 mod master..




Well, if I'm ever fortunate enough to own an Ultra or a G90 then I certainly know who to come to for tweaks.


----------



## lordcloud























Screenshot vs Screengrab!


----------



## overclkr

Drunken Screenshot.




































Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

Your stack not warmed up Cliffy? I see misconvergence


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12975179
> 
> 
> Your stack not warmed up Cliffy? I see misconvergence


----------



## mp20748

More using the landscape setting..

*Blu-Ray/1080p - lowly 8500/Moome*


----------



## Gino AUS

These last shots look a little too wide Mike, what did you change?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/12995904
> 
> 
> These last shots look a little too wide Mike, what did you change?



Yes, that sometimes happen. I have two 1080P memories in my 8500. One is for the Xbox 360 and the other is for the Blu-Ray player. They both are slightly different from the other. At times I'm not always paying attention to which memory. And though one image looks different in width from the others, they all are using the exact same width and settings.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Rush Hour 3 Blue Ray


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12998438










*BUSTED*!!!







:


----------



## overclkr

Hehehehe, he said "BUST".


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Dam Cliff, I wish I could make it to your next meet but there is just too much going on right now. Maybe next time I'm in Chicago I can look you up. I sometimes go up there for product training with a company called S&C Electric, maybe you have heard of them.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12998657
> 
> 
> Dam Cliff, I wish I could make it to your next meet but there is just too much going on right now. Maybe next time I'm in Chicago I can look you up. I sometimes go up there for product training with a company called S&C Electric, maybe you have heard of them.



Anytime big dog. Anytime. Your always welcome.










Cliff


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12998449
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



So so so so so SO many things I could say......


----------



## overclkr

Aliens vs. Predator Blue Ray


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Fight Club D-Theater


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliffy, I'm going to have to get a copy of that Fight Club movie, not sure if my 1080i copy is D-Theatre


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13022460
> 
> 
> Cliffy, I'm going to have to get a copy of that Fight Club movie, not sure if my 1080i copy is D-Theatre



As you can see, it's grain city.










Cliffy


----------



## MASKOAA

overclkr could you get a shot of the Predator when he turns around to kill Weyland and he's sorta on fire. Thats a bad ass shot.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MASKOAA* /forum/post/13032285
> 
> 
> overclkr could you get a shot of the Predator when he turns around to kill Weyland and he's sorta on fire. Thats a bad ass shot.



Hehe, cool, it's still here.


Cliffy


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13022928
> 
> 
> As you can see, it's grain city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



True, but still pretty filmlike judging by your shots.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I posted these screenshots few minutes ago at the HDDVD Software forum.


*Pitch Black*







































*TROY*


----------



## Gary Murrell

took some recently of a fabulous film, Grand Prix:



































































-Gary


----------



## dropzone7

Awesome Gary! Nice to see the XG's getting some love! I consider yours the benchmark for sure and wish mine looked half that good.


----------



## overclkr

Most excellent.


----------



## Gary Murrell

thanks guys


I am posting these shots because I just completed a redo of my greyscale and gamma, I now have my 1352lc within 300k of 6500k thru the entire range and zero blue defocus










-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

a few more







we have the FE remaster, Thunderball dvd







and The Graduate HD-DVD from France












































-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




















































-Gary


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13052436
> 
> 
> thanks guys
> 
> 
> I am posting these shots because I just completed a redo of my greyscale and gamma, I now have my 1352lc within 300k of 6500k thru the entire range and zero blue defocus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Wow...thats impressive. Does the blue defocus off sharpen it up a lot?


How do you turn the blue defocus off?


How did you get the gray scale that good. just lots of tweaking? or are you doing on your scaler?



Mike


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike


to me the blue defocus makes a huge difference, I tried to deal with it best I could turned on but after being used to it off I couldn't do it, my blue tube is like a razor and I believe that it is what puts my image over the top, lots of people comment on my screenshots being the best XG ones ever, I don't know about that but it might possibly be credited to the time I have taken to get the blue 100% equal to red/green


the NEC XG series has a option in the service menu to turn blue defocus on and off, to get a good greyscale you need it on because of the way the blue tube works, flipping it off removes blue light output at the top end creating a yellowish warm 90 and 100 ire's and creates a nasty hump between 40ire and 70ire that is way to cool, like 2000k










however as you mentioned with a scaler with greyscale adjustments it can be done, after tinkering with every control at my disposal I got my current reading, I am talking hours on end of painful tinkering










the current vp50pro software only has a offset and gain adjustment which covers the entire range, the VP50pro will undoubtedly have a 11 point adjustment minimum in the future, at that time I will be able to get a dead on greyscale, with a Lumagen you can do this now










also I should note, doing the above works your blue tube harder, but in my case with smaller screen and room my blue wasn't even starting to show wear like my green, so it isn't being worked that hard anyway


bottom line is that I will never run blue defocus again on any PJ










-Gary


----------



## nashou66

Well I have been practicing changing parts on a the old crappy marque 2005-03 VIM before I try to work on the Better 2035-02 and 2035-03 Vims I have. I had to change out a lot of parts but think the pics is as good as a stock 2035-02 VIM I know its a crappy Vim but it has never looked better and I compared it to my stock 2005-03 and it has a much more 3-D LOOK AND DEEPER DEEPER BLACKS. I have not done a proper calibration and the projector was torn down and rebuilt but here are some screen shots with color HD144's on a 12 foot 1.3 gain Da Lite screen with a fuji f10 camera. I cant get the camera to get the colors right but it looks much better in person. Also my LG BH100 sucks at pausing.


Edit: I should have up loaded a bigger picture size.


*Modded 2005-03p VIM @ 1080p48*










































































Learning all this stuff has been a lot of fun!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell

that is a good screenshot, what is that from Athan?


-Gary


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Gary, it's The Brave One . Great movie, lots of dark sceans MP would love it !










Your shots look great too Even the SD dvds! there are some in there right?


Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13052436
> 
> 
> thanks guys
> 
> 
> I am posting these shots because I just completed a redo of my greyscale and gamma, I now have my 1352lc within 300k of 6500k thru the entire range and zero blue defocus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary




Gary, are you planning on getting the new Moome HDMI card?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/13051481
> 
> 
> I posted these screenshots few minutes ago at the HDDVD Software forum.




It never ceases to amaze me what you have been able to do with that little Sony. Nice!


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13056343
> 
> 
> Gary, are you planning on getting the new Moome HDMI card?



hopefully







, business has dried up to **** right now so I am broke as a joke







but I am dying to get 10-bit HDMI going


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13056287
> 
> 
> Thanks Gary, it's The Brave One . Great movie, lots of dark sceans MP would love it !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your shots look great too Even the SD dvds! there are some in there right?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Thunderball SD DVD







the new remastered ones, I am ****ting myself thinking of what these Bonds are going to look like on BD










-Gary


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13056409
> 
> 
> hopefully
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , business has tried up to **** right now so I am broke as a joke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I am dying to get 10-bit HDMI going
> 
> 
> -Gary



I heard that! It's going to hurt but I have to give it a try...


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13056364
> 
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me what you have been able to do with that little Sony. Nice!



I agree, he has become a master of setting that little projector up..I aspire to achiev his level of set up, but i'm just too impatiant and I want to watch a movie !











> Quote:
> Thunderball SD DVD the new remastered ones, I am ****ting myself thinking of what these Bonds are going to look like on BD
> 
> 
> -Gary



i have that on Laser disc !!!! I should set that up in the theater as well.


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM

Gary the red push is gone too.

Good work! Now which lumagen is this that you are running the 52 with?


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13057433
> 
> 
> Gary the red push is gone too.
> 
> Good work! Now which lumagen is this that you are running the 52 with?



Cas, that was mostly my camera before causing that, I tweaked that out of it as well







that was something that was annoying me because my screenshots looked like I had a greyscale at about 5000k










I am using the DVDO VP50pro, hopefully we will get the Lumagen type capability soon, the 2 simple offset and gain controls added to the vp50pro latest software allowed me to get this close without a nice point system


with the point control, I could correct my 100ire from 6200k to 6500k but that is so close it is splitting hairs


-Gary


----------



## CaspianM

Sounds good. your XG looks great now with these new screenies.


----------



## Gary Murrell

thanks dude, a question, where are your screens?

















-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

a few more, Omega Man BD(you will never find a better image IMHO), From Russia with Love DVD and Timecop HD:











































































-Gary


----------



## cinema mad

Those screen shots look awesome!!!! excellent work Gary,I to hope that the VP50pro gets an 11 point gray scale adjustment....


----------



## overclkr

Spectacular Gary!!!!!! I especially like the detail in this shot:











Damnit, now I gotta take some shots......












Cliff


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13062841
> 
> 
> Spectacular Gary!!!!!! I especially like the detail in this shot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damnit, now I gotta take some shots......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



dude, I can't wait to see that on your rig, best image I have seen on my setup, the first 10 minutes or so has some eye popping stuff


the upcoming Dirty Harry set will look just as good, good old fashioned true anamorphic panavision and a 4k restoration










-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/13061756
> 
> 
> Those screen shots look awesome!!!! excellent work Gary,I to hope that the VP50pro gets an 11 point gray scale adjustment....



thanks cinema, hopefully we will be blessed with CMS, 11 point gamma/greyscale and other important controls on the pro, can't wait


I should also point out that my current setup is using the first gen moome DVI card, I wonder if the new HDMI 1.3 card will look any better







to be honest with the gamma adjustment on the pro I am pretty darn happy with my current image but going to 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI should be much better


-Gary


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13063466
> 
> 
> I should also point out that my current setup is using the first gen moome DVI card, I wonder if the new HDMI 1.3 card will look any better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be honest with the gamma adjustment on the pro I am pretty darn happy with my current image but going to 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI should be much better
> 
> -Gary



I'm also anxious to hear your impressions of Moome's new card Gary. I am hopeful that I can replace my HD Fury and RTC2200 transcoder combination with this card.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13061715
> 
> 
> a few more, Omega Man BD(you will never find a better image IMHO), From Russia with Love DVD and Timecop HD:
> 
> 
> -Gary



In my short but great time on AVS, this is why I've grown to love you Gary. REAL MOVIES. Now I have to go pick up Omega Man. And I have to say, I don't read enough of your posts here either. We need to hear more from you !


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13064690
> 
> 
> In my short but great time on AVS, this is why I've grown to love you Gary. REAL MOVIES. Now I have to go pick up Omega Man. And I have to say, I don't read enough of your posts here either. We need to hear more from you !



Just Came home with Omega man also !!!! And I also picked up the Invasion.



Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13065319
> 
> 
> Just Came home with Omega man also !!!! And I also picked up the Invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I want to pick that up as well. I remember seeing Invasion of the Body Snatchers when i was a kid and really liking it.


----------



## Cinenut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13065395
> 
> 
> I want to pick that up as well. I remember seeing *Invasion of the Body Snatchers* when i was a kid and really liking it.



That's a great film! Just make sure you grab the original -- I believe there are at least a handful of remakes, but none capture that same eerie tension.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cinenut* /forum/post/13065511
> 
> 
> That's a great film! Just make sure you grab the original -- I believe there are at least a handful of remakes, but none capture that same eerie tension.



I read the book long time ago but never seen any version of the movie. I hope I'm not disapointed.


Gary, did you notice any posterization ( Where there is lighter patches of dark blue in a all black area) on The Omega man during dark scenes?

At first I thought it might be my projector so i put in a few movies that have dark scenes and it didn't happen on those. I noticed the same thing on a few other older movies and also on The HD-DVD of The Mummy. Would this be a bad transfer?


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Marquee 8500 2005-03p Moded Vim @ 1080p48hz. I used a 2 second exposer but i think a half second to one second more would have showed what i am seeing better And once again the pause on the LG player adds noise and no color calibration yet.






























A 2.5 second exposer would have helped this.










Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

A few more from the same session.






























*The Money shot*




























Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell

looks pretty damn good to me Athan, very sharp


maybe a little too cool,but as I found out myself, lots of cameras don't give a greyscale equal to what we see in person so that may be the cause for that










-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13072714
> 
> 
> looks pretty damn good to me Athan, very sharp
> 
> 
> maybe a little too cool,but as I found out myself, lots of cameras don't give a greyscale equal to what we see in person so that may be the cause for that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



No you are 100% right about the coolness of the grey scale. I haven't worked on it yet since i am still changing out parts and trying different value caps on the vim. And I soon plan to add the same op amps onto the VNB's and the corresponding coupling caps for that amp. Also I just can't seem to get rid of the green tint after the HD144 lens install I have got it a little better but have to bump blue drive way up to hide the green tint thus giving it that cool look and this is even with a 2035-03p and a 2035-02p Vims. I wanted to make sure it wasn't something on the moded Vim.

However thanks for the compliment on sharpness, I am really happy with the way this old Vim is performing. I put an original back in just to see if it was some kind of placebo effect







and the moded Vim just does black so much nicer and it is definitely sharper than the non-moded 2005-03p.


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Made some additional changes to the 2005-03p Vim and CLM. This is still with a no color calibration and a dirty set up.12 foot screen contrast and brightness @ 50. After some of the changes to the vims power line inputs it seems the red tube comes on when no input is on but once the input is on that issue goes away. cant figure that one out since it wasn't any change to the signal or internal signal lines, just the power rails on the plug to the backplane.




















On this one you can see its not converged 100%











This one shows the sublte differens=ces in shades of colors especially the foilage in the back ground.











This is hard work , I don,t know how Mike Parker does it ! my hats off to his efforts as they are the inspiration for my messing around with the old vims.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]









[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## dropzone7

Oh man! I missed Knight Rider! Shots look really nice Bob. The casket is a little creepy but nice shots!


----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13143898
> 
> 
> Oh man! I missed Knight Rider! Shots look really nice Bob. The casket is a little creepy but nice shots!



Isn't she dreamy? I just fall into those eyes...












Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Glad to see the Mitsu is still looking good. I should try a few screen shots from my Mitsu diamond series 65815. Bob what was the link to that pcb mod for the mitsu's ringing problem that Craig Rounds has. I'm getting pretty good with the Iron and might give it a try.


Athanasios


----------



## Schils

This thread is inspirational for newbs to screen shot nabbing...silly/quick question when using chep-ish digital type camers (Sony cybershot P93 5.1 MP)...do you leave off the "red eye" function for this stuff - I like it on for _real world_ pictures, does actually work for that, but I 'm guessing I should leave it off? Thanks. =)


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Schils* /forum/post/13145695
> 
> 
> This thread is inspirational for newbs to screen shot nabbing...silly/quick question when using chep-ish digital type camers (Sony cybershot P93 5.1 MP)...do you leave off the "red eye" function for this stuff - I like it on for _real world_ pictures, does actually work for that, but I 'm guessing I should leave it off? Thanks. =)



Red eye reduction is merely a pre-flash to reduce the subjects' pupil.


For screenshots, flash is off. Including red-eye pre-flash.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13146188
> 
> 
> Red eye reduction is merely a pre-flash to reduce the subjects' pupil.
> 
> 
> For screenshots, flash is off. Including red-eye pre-flash.



You guys listen to Clarence, he's had some of the best shots up here!












Mr Bob


----------



## Schils

Alrighty, knew about the flash and taking them in dark rooms, etc, now I'll make sure to turn the red-eye off as well - thanks!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13145412
> 
> 
> Glad to see the Mitsu is still looking good. I should try a few screen shots from my Mitsu diamond series 65815. Bob what was the link to that pcb mod for the mitsu's ringing problem that Craig Rounds has. I'm getting pretty good with the Iron and might give it a try.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I have not had a chance to do it yet to my set, but here it is -

http://www.cir-engineering.com/white...mod/PCBmod.htm 



Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Gee thanks Mister !!!










Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13146877
> 
> 
> Gee thanks Mister !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Let me know if you see the differences -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...




















Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -











Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there -


----------



## nashou66

Added more caps to my CLM and changed out two of the 16 pin mc34074's for the tle2074 and one OPA4134 in place of a TL084. also some more buffering cap changes. Small improvement but not much, screen shots cant capture all the shadow detail and blacks are deep and inky.


one from Sunshine.....











now the usual 5th E, but i know this movie well so its needed to evaluate, i'm sick of it too



















I love this shot for some reason....






































And my fav of the bunch.....











Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13145412
> 
> 
> Glad to see the Mitsu is still looking good. I should try a few screen shots from my Mitsu diamond series 65815. Bob what was the link to that pcb mod for the mitsu's ringing problem that Craig Rounds has. I'm getting pretty good with the Iron and might give it a try.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



pretty big difference Athan, I did it in 5 mins flat, there is still some ringing problems left afterwards still but it is greatly reduced, make sure you get a plastic screwdriver to adjust the cap










-Gary


----------



## nashou66

*Shoot em' Up*


Great movie!






































Athansios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13175495
> 
> *Shoot em' Up*
> 
> 
> Great movie!



Great movie and STUNNING transfer as well as sound!!!!! Just awesome!


Nice shots!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Flashpoint 1080P/60 on a Crippled stack with bad colors and crappy geometry.


Thankfully the stack is fixed.










Now it's time for Ken Whitcomb to perform magic.


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13176134
> 
> 
> Great movie and STUNNING transfer as well as sound!!!!! Just awesome!
> 
> 
> Nice shots!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Thanks Cliff, Your shots are always great even the handy caped stack looks great! I definitely have to try to find a way to make it next time you have a meet.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, your optics are definitely super clean, rendering NO glow around bright objects in black backgrounds. This was especially noticeable in the 2001 starfield shots awhile back. The nth degree of depth perception.


And your colors are spot on.


Bravo!



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Doesn't LOOK dead, does it?








[/url]


Dean Cain, guest appearance








[/url]


----------



## nashou66

Bob you have to do that pcb mod! I can see the ringing around the edges of the last shot ! mine does the same.


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13176205
> 
> 
> Flashpoint 1080P/60 on a Crippled stack with bad colors and crappy geometry.



Wow, she's definitely hot!!!










Very nice shot!!!


----------



## nashou66

What format is Flashpoint on? I cant find it on Blu-ray or HD DVD.


Athanasios


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13205962
> 
> 
> What format is Flashpoint on? I cant find it on Blu-ray or HD DVD.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I think it was a bonus disc that came with a PS3 game.


----------



## Urga

Screens CRT


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13207908
> 
> 
> Screens CRT




The REAL test of home cinema - how precocious looking can we keep them, without losing those impish grins, that youthful gleam in their eyes...


You've got some edge enhancement going on, see Bruce's ears and the faceline on the left on the pic following that - but it doesn't detract at all -


Nice!



Mr Bob


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13206569
> 
> 
> I think it was a bonus disc that came with a PS3 game.



haha, funny. no, it's a blu-ray movie from Hong Kong


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13210826
> 
> 
> haha, funny. no, it's a blu-ray movie from Hong Kong



Is there a link where you can get foreign films in blu-ray?


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Flashpoint 1080P on Gino's Cannon EOS 5D


Um.... I'm stunned. This is before and after calibration as well as one screen width from my screen 1080P/60 with his camera. Smokin'.




























































































Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

Your own shot looks miles better than 5D.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13215358
> 
> 
> Your own shot looks miles better than 5D.




I reduced the size of Gino's and now they are very close. You can see in the pre calibrated image has a slight red push & the whites are slightly more blown out.











Mike


----------



## CaspianM

I sure helped but still is underexposed.

Canon is POS. Just got one 30D and without post processing IQ is not acceptable imo.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13217775
> 
> 
> I sure helped but still is underexposed.
> 
> Canon is POS. Just got one 30D and without post processing IQ is not acceptable imo.



I think you might get a little argument out of some people on that one. Getting exposure right on screen shots can be a tricky business one reason I don’t post any mine always look like crap. I don’t know if you can say it’s underexposed not knowing what the image looked like on the screen. Most cameras do a certain amount of post processing in the onboard, unless you shoot in raw mode, it just depends on how its setup.


If you really want to make sure your color is dead on, you need a gray card in the shot to balance off of with only white being projected on it. The whole idea if judging PQ from a screen shot is a not really a good idea, but they are really fun to look at anyway.


Edit: Canon SLR's have a mirror lockup feature, curious if he had that on when the shot was taken. It can make a big difference on long exposures, in regards to image sharpness.


Mike


----------



## CaspianM

Thanks Mike. Still feel Canon needs some work. They are king in high iso and fast focusing but competition is stiff. Try Sony Alpha or Nikon D300 you will see it for yourself.

The MLU is embedded in custom setting. What a pain!


----------



## Gino AUS

Yes, mirror lockup was used. When I get home I'll resize to Cliff's usual posting size so you can compare better. As I mentioned in the other thread, due to the high dynamic range seen on screen, we chose to target the low end, and that's why the shots aren't as punchy and look underexposed. Any more exposure resulted in crushed whites.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13221164
> 
> 
> Yes, mirror lockup was used. When I get home I'll resize to Cliff's usual posting size so you can compare better. As I mentioned in the other thread, due to the high dynamic range seen on screen, we chose to target the low end, and that's why the shots aren't as punchy and look underexposed. Any more exposure resulted in crushed whites.



I'm glad you made it ok.










Have fun!


Cliff


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13206569
> 
> 
> I think it was a bonus disc that came with a PS3 game.



You are thinking of Hardboiled that came with "Stranglehold" for the PS3.


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13205962
> 
> 
> What format is Flashpoint on? I cant find it on Blu-ray or HD DVD.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



As Gino mentioned, it is on Blu-ray, and it is a HK film.

You can get it in the states from Tony at Xploited.
http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/fl...y-p-13075.html


----------



## Blasst

Cliff,


Those shots of Flashpoint really do look tremendous.

Gino did a great job taking them.

Wish I could have been there to see them on your setup....


----------



## Urga

Screens " Riddick " :


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13220754
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike. Still feel Canon needs some work. They are king in high iso and fast focusing but competition is stiff. Try Sony Alpha or Nikon D300 you will see it for yourself.
> 
> The MLU is embedded in custom setting. What a pain!



Canon made a deliberate (read: design) decision to ensure that a picture will not suffer from white clipping.

This will lead to pictures that pre post-processing may look underexposed.

RAW development is a mandatory step after taking a picture, just like you would develop negatives depending on your likes/needs.

You could of course use exposure compensation when shooting if you absolutely feel that any picture should have white clipping.


Crushed whites can not be restored, so the Canon's decision is actually very reasonable imho.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13223401
> 
> 
> Screens " Riddick " :



Nice! Did you turn down the ee? These edges look a lot better than those on your last batch. I am still striving to get the time to do the anti-ringing mod on my Mit, but attending these threads keeps taking all my time!


And welcome! Good to have you here. Great first posts!











Whatcha got?



Mr Bob


----------



## Urga

Screens " Riddick " :


T° 7500K

Brigthness........... 40/100

Contrast........ .....50/100

Saturation...........45/100

Dynamic Contrast.. " Low "

Sharpness............ 1/7


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13223468
> 
> 
> Screens " Riddick " :
> 
> 
> T° 7500K
> 
> Brigthness........... 40/100
> 
> Contrast........ .....50/100
> 
> Saturation...........45/100
> 
> Dynamic Contrast.. " Low "
> 
> Sharpness............ 1/7




Display? Screen size? Rear/front?


----------



## Mr Bob

Cameron








[/url]


John








[/url]


Sarah hurting over fiance








[/url]


the bubble chamber








[/url]


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13223415
> 
> 
> Canon made a deliberate (read: design) decision to ensure that a picture will not suffer from white clipping.
> 
> This will lead to pictures that pre post-processing may look underexposed.
> 
> RAW development is a mandatory step after taking a picture, just like you would develop negatives depending on your likes/needs.
> 
> You could of course use exposure compensation when shooting if you absolutely feel that any picture should have white clipping.
> 
> 
> Crushed whites can not be restored, so the Canon's decision is actually very reasonable imho.



I agree you can bring out detail in post if you need to if you clip whites its gone forever. I came really close to getting an EOS XTi, but I found out the XSi is right around the corner and it looks just too sweet so I will wait for it.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=16303 


Canon is really good about addressing shortcomings and this camera looks like they took care of some of the issues with the XTi. Granted it is still the cheaper plastic body and the bundled lens is crap but the features they have added are only in some of the newer high end Pro Cameras. The LiveView feature is just too cool.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1752 



Mike


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13227945
> 
> 
> I came really close to getting an EOS XTi, but I found out the XSi is right around the corner...
> 
> 
> Granted it is still the cheaper plastic body and the bundled lens is crap but the features they have added are only in some of the newer high end Pro Cameras.



Mike, the XSi comes bundled with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 *IS* lens with Optical Image Stabilizer... much better than the shi##y non-IS lens bundled with the XTi.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08...50dchanges.asp 


The 18-55 *I.S.* is very favorably reviewed in next month's PopPhoto.


----------



## CaspianM

For budget I would suggest look at the Sony DSLR-a200. I have the a100 and Canon 30D and IQ of Sony is better below 800 iso both from RAW and in camera jpeg. Canon focus tracking is awesome. But if you are using it with lower iso and do not shoot sports, Sony is a better camera by IQ(image quality). It also has in camera IS so any cheap lens would work whereas with Canon IS lenses are quite a bit more money.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13228207
> 
> 
> Mike, the XSi comes bundled with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 *IS* lens with Optical Image Stabilizer... much better than the shi##y non-IS lens bundled with the XTi.
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08...50dchanges.asp
> 
> 
> The 18-55 *I.S.* is very favorably reviewed in next month's PopPhoto.



Thanks Clarence, I wondered about that knew it had an IS lense but didn't know if the optics were any good. Its only 100 bucks less without the lens anyway. The bundled lense on the XTi seemed totally cheezy.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13230589
> 
> 
> For budget I would suggest look at the Sony DSLR-a200. I have the a100 and Canon 30D and IQ of Sony is better below 800 iso both from RAW and in camera jpeg. Canon focus tracking is awesome. But if you are using it with lower iso and do not shoot sports, Sony is a better camera by IQ(image quality). It also has in camera IS so any cheap lens would work whereas with Canon IS lenses are quite a bit more money.




While I agree with you the Sony should probably be looked into I have another reason for going with Canon. My brother is a commercial photographer and also does some stock work. So I have access to several high dollar IS lenses.This makes Canon the only logic choice for me.


Here is some example of some of his work. These were all shot with an EOS-1DS Mark II.

http://www.mephotonow.com/img/africa_2006/ 

http://www.mephotonow.com/img/galapagos_trip/galapagos/ 

http://www.mephotonow.com/img/polar_bear_1522/ 


Mike


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13230589
> 
> 
> I have the a100 and Canon 30D and IQ of Sony is better below 800 iso both from RAW and in camera jpeg.



That's highly debateable. Canon isn't the best selling digital SLR among professional photographers because image quality is inferior (and they are using it at slower ISOs).


It's easy to make statements like that in a projector forum. Try saying that at photo.net or dpreview.com forums and I'm sure you'll find many very experienced photographers willing to educate you


----------



## overclkr

The last of Flashpoint post calibrated.















































I thought they turned out pretty damn good.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

BTW, I can't believe that movie is AVC and 7.1 PCM on a 25GB Blue Ray.


Just sick.


AVC is SO AWESOME.


Cliffy


----------



## Alan Gouger

Wow thats looking sick









If I did not know better I never would have guessed this was CRT. Extreme punch and brightness. That guy looks really pissed!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ilsiu* /forum/post/13232223
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the a100 and Canon 30D and IQ of Sony is better below 800 iso both from RAW and in camera jpeg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's highly debateable. Canon isn't the best selling digital SLR among professional photographers because image quality is inferior (and they are using it at slower ISOs).
> 
> 
> It's easy to make statements like that in a projector forum. Try saying that at photo.net or dpreview.com forums and I'm sure you'll find many very experienced photographers willing to educate you
Click to expand...


A debate between Canon/Nikon/Sony SLRs is as pointless as the debate between Sony/Barco/Marquee/XG.


The equipment's capabilities will not be the limiting factor... settings (exposure/focus/aperture/DoF/flash), source (subject/setting/scenery), experience, and personal preference (style/lighting/angle/cropping) will typically have more impact.


A good photographer can do magic with a crappy camera.

A bad photographer can sometimes take a good picture if/when he's in the right place at the right time.


A lot of it is mindset and experience. I've noticed this after jumping from Marquee to NEC to Ampro to Barco to Sony. When you see a geometry flaw, does your mind instinctively think three levels deep into the geometry setup menu, ready to click in the right direction? After I learned to appreciate the straightforward simplicity of the Marquee and Barco, I then learned to appreciate the complexity of the NECs and Sonys. None is necessarily better than the others... it all depends on how comfortable and experienced you are (or can become) with your choice of equipment... can you get it to do what you want it to do, ideally by instinct.


----------



## CaspianM

Cliff these shot look awesome.


Canon is the best selling SLR.

I never said Sony is better. In low iso setting PQ is better than soft canon specially if shoot in camer jpeg. Raw they are closer. Sony's metering is a lot more robust producing correct exposure one shot after another whereas Canon's metering is highly suspetible to both over and under exposure in complex lightening. I have done 500 shots with each exact same images and consistently Sony looked better. Obviously there are other considerations like lens availability or faster focusing and so forth.


Full frame I would pick either a Canon or Nikon.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13232958
> 
> 
> I have the a100 and Canon 30D and IQ of *Sony is better*





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13232958
> 
> 
> I never said Sony is better.


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13232735
> 
> 
> The equipment's capabilities will not be the limiting factor... settings (exposure/focus/aperture/DoF/flash), source (subject/setting/scenery), experience, and personal preference (style/lighting/angle/cropping) will typically have more impact.



I agree 100%. That's why I would challenge any statement that "Canon image quality is inferior to Sony" or "Sony image quality is inferior to Canon." There's absolutely no way someone can look at an image and say "that's obviously from a Brand XYZ DSLR - note the inferior image quality."


I might be able to accept that the Canon JPG processing may be inferior to Sony's (I doubt it), but the suggestion that Canon RAW is inferior really stumps me, because it's the RAW data from the sensor with ZERO processing. It's up to the photographer to determine the white balance, black/white points, everything. If the original exposure/focus wasn't screwed up, I don't know how the RAW data from the Canon would be any better or worse than any other camera.


----------



## CaspianM

I guess I did.









Didn't want to imply Sony is better camera all things considered.

Took the Sony to shoot my kid's basketball practice and none turned out out 30. All out of focus. With canon I had some nice shots.

I am not really debaring just a thought based on my findings. Both are nice imaging tools.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/13232672
> 
> 
> Wow thats looking sick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I did not know better I never would have guessed this was CRT. Extreme punch and brightness. That guy looks really pissed!



Yep big dog, it sure is sweet. Let me drop this though and tell me what you think.



















I cant wait to get my tubes back.










Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ilsiu* /forum/post/13233072
> 
> 
> I agree 100%. That's why I would challenge any statement that "Canon image quality is inferior to Sony" or "Sony image quality is inferior to Canon." There's absolutely no way someone can look at an image and say "that's obviously from a Brand XYZ DSLR - note the inferior image quality."
> 
> 
> I might be able to accept that the Canon JPG processing may be inferior to Sony's (I doubt it), but the suggestion that Canon RAW is inferior really stumps me, because it's the RAW data from the sensor with ZERO processing. It's up to the photographer to determine the white balance, black/white points, everything. If the original exposure/focus wasn't screwed up, I don't know how the RAW data from the Canon would be any better or worse than any other camera.



This is really OT but in a nutshell you are taking a simple comment and exploiting it. Raw can be different from two different camera. They use different sensors. Lens are different. Color encoding are different. Pixel sharpness are different. Even the same software can do differently with different camea with raw processing.


----------



## Clarence

Cliff,


I really wish I could've been there to hang out with you, Gino, Wallace, Ken, Don, and the rest of the gang. But I turned in 75 hours last week... sadly, I worked much more than that.


Anyways, to get back on topic, these screenshots are for Bob, since he seems to like the new Terminator series. These are just from my Canon S85 point-and-shoot digicam... I didn't set up my DSLR.


G90 on 9' wide Wilsonart laminate screen:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13233146
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> I really wish I could've been there to hang out with you, Gino, Wallace, Ken, Don, and the rest of the gang. But I turned in 75 hours last week... sadly, I worked much more than that.



Check the meet thread big dog and see how June might turn out.
















Beautiful pics. Very nice!


Cliffy


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13232452
> 
> 
> The last of Flashpoint post calibrated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they turned out pretty damn good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Pretty damn good?


Those shots are SMOKING damn good Cliff!


What size screen are you using again?


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/13232672
> 
> 
> Wow thats looking sick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I did not know better I never would have guessed this was CRT. Extreme punch and brightness. That guy looks really pissed!




Alan,


That guy is Donnie Yen, a well known action star in Asia.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0947447/


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13232958
> 
> 
> I never said Sony is better. In low iso setting PQ is better than soft canon specially if shoot in camer jpeg. Raw they are closer.



The difference between Sony and Canon is the default sharpness setting.


Whatever setting you prefer, you can change the camera to a different preset, or create your own.


Sharpness levels are 1-10, defaults use 2 or 3.


Take a Canon standard JPG and sharpen it till it rings, and it'll look just like any standard Sony or Pentax JPG, alternatively change the Canon preset in the camera.


Of course you can dial down the sharpening in Sony, Pentax or Nikon D-SLRs.


These are just decisions by the manufacturers to favor either a sharp look or a softer look using the default settings.


Any of the cameras can produce virtually the same picture though when you adjust the parameters to make them look the same.


You could even make the Sony look much softer than the Canon.


The same is true for RAW shooting.


----------



## Urga

Hello .

Screens " Blade Trinity " :


----------



## Urga




----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

It's been a while.







I bought today HDDVD Beowulf for $10 at Hollywood Video.


Below are few pics. And for more pics,
http://restricted.dyndns.org/Beowulf/


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/13233532
> 
> 
> Pretty damn good?
> 
> 
> Those shots are SMOKING damn good Cliff!
> 
> 
> What size screen are you using again?



Thanks, and thanks to you.










My screen is a 10ft wide SMX. 120" X 67 1/2".


Cliffy


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13233125
> 
> 
> This is really OT but in a nutshell you are taking a simple comment and exploiting it. Raw can be different from two different camera. They use different sensors. Lens are different. Color encoding are different. Pixel sharpness are different. Even the same software can do differently with different camea with raw processing.



Since this is a discussion on screenshots, and the camera is a critical component of the screenshot, there is some (admittedly small) relevance.


I don't want to belabor the point so I'll just say that yes it was a simple comment - but if I made a simple comment like 'DLP is better than CRT' don't you think someone will make a big deal?


Regarding Raw processing, sensor, etc differences between cameras - I think Kschmit2's post addresses this point very nicely. Any inherent differences can be easily lost in post processing.


I have no issue with you feeling that the Sony (Minolta) is a better camera for your photographic vision, but I think you oversimplified the reason. If you don't like the default soft look of the Canon you can make it just as sharp and artifact free as the Sony. If someone doesn't like the sharp look of the Sony they can make it as soft as the default Canon. If you don't like the matrix exposure metering algorithm of the Canon you can spot meter and get the same exposure choice as Sony's exposure algorithm.


Basically, you can get the picture you want with the Canon, but if you can get the same picture more easily with the Sony, then the Sony is better for you. I think you already knew all of that, but that didn't come out until you had to respond to my nit-picking










I'm fine if you disagree with all of the above and won't argue it any further. I too would rather not continue this line of discussion in this thread, so I'll just say in conclusion that the sensor type and in-camera processing algorithm shouldn't be the top factors in chosing a camera system. In my opinion, the availability of the lenses you need (wide angle, long telephoto, fast zooms, etc.) and the user interface (how quickly can you get the shot at the critical moment) are the most important things to consider.


PS - I don't even own a Canon DSLR - I actually have a Pentax *IST-DS, which I believe uses a CCD made by Sony!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13233726
> 
> 
> The difference between Sony and Canon is the default sharpness setting.



I already said if you like a lot of post processing get the Canon. Both offers (neutral in Canon) no sharpenning mode in jpeg. But I already said Raws look different. Any way if any of you interested in raw files of each camera PM me. Look around some pro reviews, there are photo's posted generated by each camera. Dpreview has some RAW of a100 and 30D and 400d(Xti) for comparision. Oh BTW the sensor in the Sony a100 is same as Nikon's D200.

Go figure.


----------



## Urga

Shoot Camera " Panasonic Lumix FZ8 " :

http://panasonic.fr/servlet/PB/menu/..._l3/index.html


----------



## Urga

Screens " Héro " :


----------



## CaspianM

"Shooting RAW and equalizing the image processing by using a standard converter gives us a different view on the DSLR-A100 vs. EOS 30D (or 10 vs 8 megapixel) comparison, again while the advantage isn't great there is certainly some extra detail visible in the DSLR-A100 shot. "

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyDSLRA100/page26.asp


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13235592
> 
> 
> "Shooting RAW and equalizing the image processing by using a standard converter gives us a different view on the DSLR-A100 vs. EOS 30D (or 10 vs 8 megapixel) comparison, again while the advantage isn't great there is certainly some extra detail visible in the DSLR-A100 shot. "
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyDSLRA100/page26.asp



They used Adobe Camera Raw.

Adobe RAW processing is hardly something to brag about.


There are quite a few RAW processors that are much better. Nik Capture NX for Nikons and Canon's DPP e.g.

Both are able to extract significantly more detail from RAW images than Adobe Camera Raw or any version of Adobe Lightroom.


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13233146
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> I really wish I could've been there to hang out with you, Gino, Wallace, Ken, Don, and the rest of the gang. But I turned in 75 hours last week... sadly, I worked much more than that.
> 
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic, these screenshots are for Bob, since he seems to like the new Terminator series. These are just from my Canon S85 point-and-shoot digicam... I didn't set up my DSLR.
> 
> 
> G90 on 9' wide Wilsonart laminate screen:



Awesome! Very very sharp picture quality!!!


----------



## Urga

Hello .


Screens The movie French :


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## overclkr




----------



## tomson1973

Hello overclkr,


is it possible that you have a convergence drift on the right side?

I think the pictures are a little bit unsharp.

It's my opinion, but I think the pictures have a bit to much red.


greetings


----------



## MikeEby

3:10 was a good flix...Though it was perhaps a tad soft though.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomson1973* /forum/post/13267147
> 
> 
> Hello overclkr,
> 
> 
> is it possible that you have a convergence drift on the right side?
> 
> I think the pictures are a little bit unsharp.
> 
> It's my opinion, but I think the pictures have a bit to much red.
> 
> 
> greetings



Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I was too damn lazy to touch it up.










Suprisingly though, it is only off about a half pixel. The camera did a very good job of catching it.


I still think it looks awesome though and you cannot see it in all shots.










Cliff


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13267599
> 
> 
> Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I was too damn lazy to touch it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff




Curious, how do you do that with a stack? Shut one projector down, touch it up on one projector, then power the second unit and match it to the reference projector?


Mike


----------



## nashou66

Thats how i do it with my marquees, you converge the one if its off then i throuw up the green only grid for the one or the red that was just converged and then do a green convegance from the service menu of the second PJ. Shut off the first Projector and finish converging the second to the now matched green grid pattern. I always use an external grid patter too from DVE HD disc.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13268185
> 
> 
> Curious, how do you do that with a stack? Shut one projector down, touch it up on one projector, then power the second unit and match it to the reference projector?
> 
> 
> Mike



Both projectors must be running and WARMED UP.










First you converge the reference projector then mute blue and green on the reference and blue and red on non reference. Next up is converge green on non reference to red on reference. Then I mute red on reference and converge red on non reference to green on reference. Last on the list is both blues.


Once done I go over the screen and touch up as necessary with zone convergence.


When the stack drifts, it takes me a whole 10 minutes to touch it up although I can be lazy as hell and just watch it like that. Kinda looks like a digital at that point!

















Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13233146
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic, these screenshots are for Bob, since he seems to like the new Terminator series.



Awesome shots, Clarence! As usual -


Almost makes you believe the happs in the series are real, doesn't it!


Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Guys, does any one else have screenshots of 3:10?? I'd be curious to see if other calibrated displays push reds as well.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr






























Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob

Cameron








[/url]


----------



## Urga

Hello .

Screens " X-Men 2 " T° 6500K , gamma 2,15 , RGB Pal .

1024*768i 75HZ


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga

The End :


----------



## crabbydaddy2

wow these are awesome

i wish i could get a theater to look like that.


----------



## Fellenz

Urga,


What display is that, IMO it looks oversharpened to me


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fellenz* /forum/post/13275612
> 
> 
> Urga,
> 
> 
> What display is that, IMO it looks oversharpened to me




Yeah, I agree, I think the ee is set a little high.


Damn fine set of pix, tho! I could sit there and watch those pix all night. The grayscale is on, the colorations are right, and it's tight as a tack.



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Nah, it's just a small monitor. I could see shots coming out like that on it.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13276452
> 
> 
> Yeah, I agree, I think the ee is set a little high.
> 
> 
> Damn fine set of pix, tho! I could sit there and watch those pix all night. The grayscale is on, the colorations are right, and it's tight as a tack.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



This is a nice one.


----------



## overclkr

This is my favorite from the weekend. Look at that Shepard's eyes. AWESOME.


----------



## kal

I have to admit, that's a really nice shot Cliffy! Nice and natural looking. Doesn't look over processed, sharpened, or dare I say..... digital.







Very Nice!


Kal


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/13276640
> 
> 
> I have to admit, that's a really nice shot Cliffy! Nice and natural looking. Doesn't look over processed, sharpened, or dare I say..... digital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very Nice!
> 
> 
> Kal



Yup. Nuttin' can beat CRT for that kind of detail in dark areas...











Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

OK guys. It's time to back away from the crack pipe. I've been watching these shots for some time now. They are a perfect representation of why I don't like digitals.


The "EE" is not set a 'little' high. It's off the chain.


And Bob, although you may find the grayscale and colors to be correct, how do you get around the pixelated image, or broken image or whatever it is going on there.


For me, 5 minutes would be all it would take, then the top would come off the Advil bottle.


Sorry.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13276477
> 
> 
> This is a nice one.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crabbydaddy2* /forum/post/13275334
> 
> 
> wow these are awesome
> 
> i wish i could get a theater to look like that.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13276452
> 
> 
> Yeah, I agree, I think the ee is set a little high.
> 
> 
> Damn fine set of pix, tho! I could sit there and watch those pix all night. The grayscale is on, the colorations are right, and it's tight as a tack.
> 
> 
> Mr Bob


----------



## Urga

Good Morning .

Screens The Movie French :


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## CaspianM

These screen shots are nice. But they look overly sharpened.

I see a good amount of ringing suggesting edge enhancement.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13278609
> 
> 
> These screen shots are nice. But they look overly sharpened.
> 
> I see a good amount of ringing suggesting edge enhancement.



Yeah, I think that covers what Mike is talking about also, tho Mike, I don't quite see the breakup you're mentioning, other than what ee routinely causes -


?


Urga, let us in on the tech you're using here. Don't recall your saying, tho I must admit I have missed thoroughly perusing a page or 2 lately...


And can you get us some shots that are a little bigger, so we can see between the lines a bit more?



Mr Bob


----------



## Urga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13278609
> 
> 
> These screen shots are nice. But they look overly sharpened.
> 
> I see a good amount of ringing suggesting edge enhancement.



CRT " Pixel+2 " ( Upscaling ) , Sharpness 1/7 , no accessory .


----------



## CaspianM

I enlarged one of his shots and ringing is way too high.

He must like those artificially sharpened pictures.

That is why he posts them in small size.


----------



## CaspianM

What CRT are using and what is you video chain?


----------



## dropzone7

I'm just interested in what movie these are from.


----------



## Urga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13278739
> 
> 
> What CRT are using and what is you video chain?



CRT " Philips P+2 DNM 32" PW 9520 , player Pioneer 380 , DVD Pal 720*576 Scart RGB via upscaling chassi TV 1024*768 75Hz .


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13279371
> 
> 
> CRT " Philips P+2 DNM 32" PW 9520 , player Pioneer 380 , DVD Pal 720*576 Scart RGB via upscaling chassi TV 1024*768 75Hz .



That is 32" TV!!

This is CRT projectors forum.

You should post your photo's in "Direct view" forum.








http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=64


----------



## Blasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13278985
> 
> 
> I'm just interested in what movie these are from.



Brotherhood of the Wolf. (LE PACTE DES LOUPS)



Review for HD DVD version here:

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/971/b...hewolf_uk.html 


And can be had here:

http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/br...e-p-11239.html


----------



## Urga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13278985
> 
> 
> I'm just interested in what movie these are from.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13279371
> 
> 
> CRT " Philips P+2 DNM 32" PW 9520 , player Pioneer 380 , DVD Pal 720*576 Scart RGB via upscaling chassi TV 1024*768 75Hz .



Now I see why there was so much ee. SVM - scan velocity modulation - was invented for edges to be seen more clearly on relatively small DV sets, which were usually sat way far away from at the time, usually across a room. 32" definitely qualifies for "relatively small", compared to the massive screen sizes here on this thread.


I first saw SVM on the Mits's of the time, way back then, and yes the edges were a lot more seeable.


But when you use it on a picture with great depth and size, ee shows up the edges TOO much, and also decimates small details in the process.


Guess that also explains why the pix sent in were so small. Our goal here is the same as in the movie theaters - to have relatively (for us at home anyway, compared to the movie theaters) BIG pictures to watch, while maintaining full detail. The more we blow pictures up here on the thread, the more we scrutinize them as well -


Cliff's doublestack, which is sat the same distance from as the width of the picture - he sits his width - is literally a BIGGER picture to watch than the perceived size of most of the seating in the movie theaters at the mall! It simply commands more of your field of view, immersing you in the images much more completely than a smaller relative size would.


I sit 8' back from my 73" CRT Mit and have a huge picture to watch, considering that Mit advises 8' for their supercrisp 65" 1080p DLP sets. My net resulting perceived size is even bigger, as the recommended distance for their 73" DLPs is 10'. And am in heaven, I love it. But that's still not sitting the width of my screen.


Not even close, I'm still envious of Cliff's setup, he spoiled me royal -











Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blasst* /forum/post/13280173
> 
> 
> Brotherhood of the Wolf. (LE PACTE DES LOUPS)
> 
> 
> 
> Review for HD DVD version here:
> 
> http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/971/b...hewolf_uk.html
> 
> 
> And can be had here:
> 
> http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/br...e-p-11239.html




Great, thanks!


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13280870



Thank you as well! Nice looking movie, hopefully I can still find it on HD DVD.


----------



## Clarence

 http://www.amazon.de/Philips-32-PW-9.../dp/B0007WLK96 
http://alatest.com/philips_pw9520_se...e-34768910,33/ 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13280149
> 
> 
> That is 32" TV!!
> 
> This is CRT projectors forum.
> 
> You should post your photo's in "Direct view" forum.



Although he was slow to disclose his display device (either trying to be clever about his TV or due to a language barrier), I think his 32" TV screenshots should be just as welcomed here as any d!%!#@| projector's screenshots. And Bob's screenshots are from a TV, so IMHO give Urga a warmer welcome.


Aside from the excessive artificial sharpness, I think they're nicely executed.


If they weren't post-processed, hopefully they don't look that harsh on screen, I think this digicam setting (sharpness = HARD) might be part of the problem:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EXIF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make - Panasonic
> 
> Model - DMC-FZ8
> 
> ExposureTime - 1 seconds
> 
> FNumber - 8.00
> 
> ExposureProgram - Manual control
> 
> ISOSpeedRatings - 100
> 
> DateTimeOriginal - 2007:08:04 01:09:29
> 
> ExifImageWidth - 600
> 
> ExifImageHeight - 400
> 
> ExposureMode - Manual
> 
> White Balance - Manual
> 
> SceneCaptureType - Standard
> 
> GainControl - None
> 
> Contrast - Soft
> 
> Saturation - Low
> *Sharpness - Hard*


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I also would like to take screenshots from my Mitsubishi 48" CRT RPTV. But I can't get my camera to focus. White is always bleeding/glowing. I tried my best but the result is different from what my eyes see. Are there cameras that can capture whatever we see like WYSIWYG?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13281621
> 
> http://www.amazon.de/Philips-32-PW-9.../dp/B0007WLK96
> http://alatest.com/philips_pw9520_se...e-34768910,33/
> 
> 
> Although he was slow to disclose his display device (either trying to be clever about his TV or due to a language barrier), I think his 32" TV screenshots should be just as welcomed here as any d!%!#@| projector's screenshots. And Bob's screenshots are from a TV, so IMHO give Urga a warmer welcome.
> 
> 
> Aside from the excessive artificial sharpness, I think they're nicely executed.
> 
> 
> If they weren't post-processed, hopefully they don't look that harsh on screen, I think this digicam setting (sharpness = HARD) might be part of the problem:



The only reason I referred him to the appropriate forum was that his screen shots don't really compare well here with those of CRT PF's such as yours or Cliff's and others. Tube CRT's are notorious wth VM and on top of that he is applying heavy sharpening explains the problem.









How do you extract the EXIF file?


----------



## Blinx123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13282270
> 
> 
> The only reason I referred him to the appropriate forum was that *his screen shots don't really compare well here with those of CRT PF's such as yours or Cliff's and others*. Tube CRT's are notorious wth VM and on top of that he is applying heavy sharpening explains the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you extract the EXIF file?



Haven't seen a Barco 909,ey?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13282270
> 
> 
> How do you extract the EXIF file?



I use irfanview .


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/13281696
> 
> 
> I also would like to take screenshots from my Mitsubishi 48" CRT RPTV. But I can't get my camera to focus. White is always bleeding/glowing. I tried my best but the result is different from what my eyes see. Are there cameras that can capture whatever we see like WYSIWYG?



As mentioned earlier on, I have had to reduce my display's contrast greatly, to make my cam co-operate, since I have no control over the shutter speed OR aperature. It's all automated. Perhaps I will have more control with my new camera, if it ever gets here -


If you can find the distant stage shot I took of Tori Amos, you'll see all sorts of glowing of the whites, and blooming. As I said on the post, those have to be taken over, they just didn't turn out right at all.


The closeup shot of her, which did turn out right, plus most of my others, were taken at about 1/3 of the display Contrast level that I normally watch the set at.


Try that -



Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blinx123* /forum/post/13282513
> 
> 
> Haven't seen a Barco 909,ey?



I have read it is an awesome pj but I have not seen one.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13283583
> 
> 
> As mentioned earlier on, I have had to reduce my display's contrast greatly, to make my cam co-operate, since I have no control over the shutter speed OR aperature. It's all automated. Perhaps I will have more control with my new camera, if it ever gets here -
> 
> 
> If you can find the distant stage shot I took of Tori Amos, you'll see all sorts of glowing of the whites, and blooming. As I said on the post, those have to be taken over, they just didn't turn out right at all.
> 
> 
> The closeup shot of her, which did turn out right, plus most of my others, were taken at about 1/3 of the display Contrast level that I normally watch the set at.
> 
> 
> Try that -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Did you order a Kodak?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13282832
> 
> 
> I use irfanview .



Used DPP and got this. Not really much of info. I will try infranview.


"File name

p1040491oc6.jpg

Camera Model Name

DMC-FZ8

Shooting Date/Time

8/4/2007 01:56:36

Tv(Shutter Speed)

1Sec.

Av(Aperture Value)

F8.0

Metering Modes

Split metering

Exposure Compensation

0

ISO Speed

100

Lens

-

Focal Length

10.4 mm

Image size

600 x 400

Image Quality

-

Flash

Off

White Balance

-

AF mode

-

Picture Style

-

Parameters

Tone Curve : -

Sharpness level : -

Pattern Sharpness : -

Contrast : -

Sharpness : -

Color saturation : -

Color tone : -

Highlight tone priority : -

Color matrix

-

Color Space

sRGB

File Size

63 KB

Dust Delete Data

No

Drive Mode

-

GPS Data

Latitude : -

Longitude : -

Altitude : -

Geographic coordinate system : -

Owner's Name

-

Camera Body No.

-"


----------



## Urga

Good Moorning .

Thank you " CaspianM , Mr bob , Clarence " .

High sharpness natural CRT , Digital natural motion .

No Artifis , no accessory Sharpness .

Screens camera Panasonic Lumix optical LEICA .


----------



## Urga




----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13288150
> 
> 
> Good Moorning .
> 
> Thank you " CaspianM , Mr bob , Clarence " .
> 
> High sharpness natural CRT , Digital natural motion .
> 
> No Artifis , no accessory Sharpness .
> 
> Screens camera Panasonic Lumix optical LEICA .



EXIF still shows SHARPNESS = HARD in your camera settings. IMHO, they'd be great screenshots if the edges weren't so extremely harsh.


Try decreasing the SHARPNESS setting. See page 86 of the manual for your camera:
http://www.leoscamera.com/Digital/pa...structions.pdf


----------



## Urga

Camera FZ8 :

Picture Adjust .

Sharpness :

High

Standart

Low


Standart , Low ?


----------



## CaspianM

I would use low setting for sharpness. Even at low there would be some sharpenning applied. The best is to do raw shooting then resize and post. Next time try a larger size such as 1028x580.


----------



## Urga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13288821
> 
> 
> I would use low setting for sharpness. Even at low there would be some sharpenning applied. The best is to do raw shooting then resize and post. Next time try a larger size such as 1028x580.



Thank You " CaspianM "


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ice_blu5* /forum/post/13287494
> 
> 
> I am selling it on ebay Australia along with games consoles and about 15 games and accessories.
> 
> 
> This forum restricts talk of prices so please take a look as i have to sell to free up room and start saving for once.



This forum also restricts selling anything other than in the official buy/sell forum. Your post will likely be removed very soon.


Kal


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13284258
> 
> 
> Did you order a Kodak?



I ordered and received the Kodak Z712 IS, what looks to be the 12x, 7MP version of the one you have. Image stabilization, multi-shot with up to 8 shots per click, the last 3 saving...


Only it had some stuff wrong with it - there were huge scratches on the barrel that were only visible when it was fully zoomed out, and it would not focus up on distant zooming unless you were in auto mode, wouldn't do it in either of the manual modes, would focus then unfocus when it was time to do the shot.


So I sent it back. They were backordered, and said it would be a couple of weeks. It's BEEN a couple of weeks! Will be contacting them directly, it's already paid for - and like you said, for not much $.


I really want its aperture or shutterspeed priority - OR all manual operation - features, as the one I currently have is totally automated and beyond my control.


Hopefully when I start using it, I can shoot my set as it actually appears to me when I'm watching it, and won't have to keep making decisions as to where to put my display's contrast settings for each type of picture.


Luckily the herringbone seems to have vanished, since I was told by Glen Carter, a fellow ISFer from another thread, how to do a freezeframe on my Dish VIP 622 without any pause bars happening. You pause it and hit the 10 second forward button, which is actually also the frame advance button when paused, allowing you to find the exact frame you will want to shoot. Whereupon the pause arrow appears, then disappears for about 7 seconds before reappearing, just enough time to sneak a 2 second timer shot in.


Works like a charm, I can truly freezeframe my DVR's shots now, instead of depending on that infuriating slo-mo -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13288254



Your shots really are quite nice, gotta admit I didn't expect to see Philips as the name of your display. I have a renewed respect for Philips now...


Would love to see them a little bit bigger, so we can really get the effect. When they are sent in small like this, they always automatically look sharper than when they are sent in really big. A good way to hide any potential flaws. But your pix seem so crisp as they are, I bet that crispness would be maintained even if you sent them in bigger.


The guys with the big ceiling pjs can get away with the super big pix here, even my well tuned display can't seem to get away with that - so far anyway, I'm working on it, buying a new cam etc. - but super small pix like these of yours just make me thirsty for more -











Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Pan's labrynth, Intresting movie. I liked it a lot. bumped the projector so focus isnt dead on and I was to tired to fix it perfectly. [email protected], 12 foot screen, marquee 8500.






































Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

First Time for me seeing this next movie, very weird but funny in a strange way. Cammera is adding the slight red tint, not there in viewing.





























Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Over on curts site 9kids had one of those AH HA!!!! moments thinking about the marquue's Vim. If useing the moomes internal card he realized there was no need for the 470nf cap since the moome card is using the same dc power source as the Vim. so that cap is not needed along with its corresponding resistor. so I tried it removed the cap from my vim and added a piece of coax core wire for the jumper and removed the 39k resistor. Definite improvement in shadow detail and a bitof lower noise, also colors seem a bit brighter with out being oversaturated. Now this is only if you are not going to use the BNC connectors on the vim. here is his post on Curts site.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&&start=0 


Thanks 9kids!





























Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Lookin' good! You should have Ken Whitcomb come out and give you a greyscale.


Cliff


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Cliff! not bad for a 8500 with the old style Vim.

Once i get the blend unit i I think i have it dialed in thet will happen either Ken or my last calibrater Craig Rounds, hes one of your local Chicago boys now you know. he aslo has a G90.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66

LMAO !!!!! nice clips Cliff!!! The last one kind reminds ya of high school days huh!










LOL Just joking !











Athanasios


----------



## Urga

Good Moorning .


Screens " Zodiac " DVD Pal . RGB Scart .


----------



## Urga

" Warner " master means


----------



## Urga




----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13325354
> 
> 
> LMAO !!!!! nice clips Cliff!!! The last one kind reminds ya of high school days huh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL Just joking !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Sure would love to see the diving board sequence up here! Classic. Right up there with the later scenes from 40 days and 40 nights...


Wonder how long it would survive before being removed -































Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13326036




Very good geometry. A circle is always the best test, with panning - to reveal speedbumps - coming in a close second, and just as important in its own way.


Looks just a tiny bit smooshed, but not noticeably so -













Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13329097
> 
> 
> Sure would love to see the diving board sequence up here! Classic. Right up there with the later scenes from 40 days and 40 nights...
> 
> 
> Wonder how long it would survive before being removed -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



If you look, you will find.










Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13331930
> 
> 
> If you look, you will find.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I saw her on the diving board yes, I meant the sequence Judge's fantasy was all about, with her shedding her top. Was that his fantasy, or did that really happen and he watched?


Can't really remember, but I know it triggered some fantasies for THIS boy -












Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13336155
> 
> 
> I saw her on the diving board yes, I meant the sequence Judge's fantasy was all about, with her shedding her top. Was that his fantasy, or did that really happen and he watched?
> 
> 
> Can't really remember, but I know it triggered some fantasies for THIS boy -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Exactly. If you look you will find!!!!!










First hint, it's not here.










Oh, and yes, it was fantasy!


Cliff


----------



## Shoujiki

Well here's some of my screenshots that i took a few months ago before I got the moome card. So this is running standard DVD 576i resolution via SVideo!! Yes yes but thats all but gone now with my HDMI Moome card and Processor, ill take new shots of that when i get my processor back!


So at the time of shots, video chain is basically...

*Onkyo DVSP501 DVD -> Onkyo TXNR901 Reciever -> Sony 1272QM SVideo IN*


Screensize is *105" 4:3*

*Final Fantasy DVD 576i*


















*Phonebooth DVD 576i*








*

Monsters Inc. DVD 576i*




















More to come for the HD shots, which look absolutely stunning!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13326036



Still using hard sharpening?










"Make - Panasonic

Model - DMC-FZ8

Contrast - Soft

Saturation - Normal

Sharpness - Hard"


----------



## Urga

Hello " CaspianM "


DVD Pal 576i scart RGB , player Pioneer sharpness 0

CRT P+2 sharpness 1/7

Camera Pana Lumix sharpness High


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13340758
> 
> 
> Hello " CaspianM "
> 
> 
> DVD Pal 576i scart RGB , player Pioneer sharpness 0
> 
> CRT P+2 sharpness 1/7
> 
> Camera Pana Lumix sharpness High



Are the original images taken larger than this? If so, could you reduce them to about the size that I post my images at and repost them?


Cliff


----------



## nashou66

AhhHaaaaa!!! I found the hidded pics Cliff...20,21,22,....










Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13342246
> 
> 
> AhhHaaaaa!!! I found the hidded pics Cliff...20,21,22,....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



23 is pretty good too!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13343155
> 
> 
> 23 is pretty good too!



damnit, NSFW... almost got busted by a patient looking at these hidden shots.


----------



## Urga

Hello .


Screens " King Kong "


DVD Pal 720*576i upscaling 1024*768i 75HZ , Scart RGB , T° 6500K .

Sharpness CRT P+2 : 2/7

Camera DMC FZ8 , Sharpness : Standard .


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga

The End :


----------



## Urga

Forum " french " :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...844&start=1050


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13347956
> 
> 
> damnit, NSFW... almost got busted by a patient looking at these hidden shots.


































Wait until I get there!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13348657
> 
> 
> Forum " french " :
> 
> http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...844&start=1050



Nice to see what it looks like across the pond. Thanks for sharing that French site! Keeps us mindful over here in the states that we are just part of the picture. There's a whole 'nother world out there -












Mr Bob


----------



## ryannnnn

Can I just say wow??? I was looking into projectors a little while back and NEVER knew they were capable of producing such clear and perfect images!!! What kind of projectors do you guys have, and what kind of screens, how much did it cost for both? It really is insane how clear the images look. . . and whoever Art is, that is one bad ass theatre. . .


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ryannnnn* /forum/post/13357863
> 
> 
> Can I just say wow??? I was looking into projectors a little while back and NEVER knew they were capable of producing such clear and perfect images!!! What kind of projectors do you guys have, and what kind of screens, how much did it cost for both? It really is insane how clear the images look. . . and whoever Art is, that is one bad ass theatre. . .



Most here use CRT projectors there are some digitals posted here too but this is a crt projector forum. Urga is a regular crt 31 inch direct view not a projector. his shots just prove that crt is still the best, too bad they dont make huge direct view crt's anymore.

My screen shots are from an Electrohome Marquee 8500 on to a 159 inch diagnal Da-Lite screen, some here are using the diffrent versions of the Marquee then there is cliff's Sony G90 stack who many on here say is the ultimate image and I agree his shots are great.

Others have lesser sony's and some NEC's and not to forget Barco's. Look around this forum and also go to www.curtpalme.com to learn more about CTR projectors. if you like to tinker and are a DIY'er then crt is for you!

here is a link to my latest screen shots
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1599 


Hope you someday can post your own CRT screen shots!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ryannnnn* /forum/post/13357863
> 
> 
> Can I just say wow??? I was looking into projectors a little while back and NEVER knew they were capable of producing such clear and perfect images!!! What kind of projectors do you guys have, and what kind of screens, how much did it cost for both? It really is insane how clear the images look. . . and whoever Art is, that is one bad ass theatre. . .



Mine is a 73" Mit RPTV, with 9" guns and (factory) mylar mirror, whose CRTs are shimmed 1.5" closer to the mirror than factory setup for overscan reduction, allowing for the full CRT face to be used after o'scan redux. Rather than just part of it, which is how o'scan redux is usually done. Overscan is standard for all CRT RPTV tech, all CRT RPTVs can use overscan reduction one way or another.


I intend to change out the mylar for a pure first surface glass mirror ASAP, which will give me crisper blacks and increase my light output by 25%, but life has kept me dancing lately, avoiding the bullets. Most of the pix I have sent up have also been plagued by the need to use slo-mo off my Dish DVR, and Glen Carter just eddicated me on how to do true pause without pause bars/emblems with it, so I can now shoot full images fully paused, without the pause marks. This has seemed to have caused that nasty herringbone to disappear so far, and hopefully will be delivering crisper screenshots in the future from my set. I also just took delivery of my replacement camera, that Kodak Z712 IS I ordered awhile ago, and can't wait to start using it, since it should get me shots as crisp as Cliff's, as his is the previous version, both of our cams equipped with that great German Schneider lens, reputed to be of Carl Zeiss quality.


I just modified it with the Craig Rounds anti-ringing mod, and am still playing with exactly where to adjust the new variable caps it involves, it's taken many hours so far. And determining how the user Sharpness factors into that - where the user Sh settings need to be with the mod in place. Things have changed since Craig wrote that mod - Mit now uses 22 pF caps on my 17 series unit, rather than the 68 pF caps that were used at that time, on Craig's 13 series unit, of 2 years before.


I will be taking some new shots soon and sending them up.



The reason I mention this here is that CRT RPTVs are capable of greatness too, and are dirt cheap right now, out there on the used market. If you take an all white - or gray, but white is better - full field/full screen pattern with you when you are scouting them out to use to check for screenburn, and are assured by the owner that he has not prematurely aged the CRTs with Torch Mode at all times during his tenure as owner, and has not subjected it to industrial/baby sitter use of 12-16 hours a day...


If it passes all those tests you can buy used with confidence that you will have a unit that will floor you with its integrity and punch for years to come, if you get it fully cleaned and calibrated.


RPTVs have their advantages over ceiling pjs - they may not be as high res and as tightly defined as the much more expensive ceiling pjs, but then again you don't need a dedicated and always darkened room to use them. They beam their light output to you from behind the screen much more directly via their fresnel/lenticular combo screens, delivering much higher light level than ceiling pjs, which bounce their images off - at least to some degree - a reflective screen. A screen that can't be allowed to be TOO reflective, or you get hotspotting. That's why the gain of a given screen for a particular purpose is critical, in front projected tech. For ultra bright bulb-driven fixed pixel front pj tech, you have to use a completely different KIND of screen, one that allows for better blacks, with inherently lesser gain.


As such, a much more substantial amount of light gets to you with RPTV tech, vs. a much lower amount of that with ceiling pj tech, while still preserving the blacks pristinely. It's all in the footlamberts. RPTVs - even rear projected ceiling pjs - are noticeably higher light output when using fresnel/lenticular tech, than the same pjs reflecting off a front screen, which sends its reflections to the winds, in all directions, unbeamed.


As such the room needn't be darkened nearly as much for CRT RPTV tech as for CRT front pj tech. Or keep the room darkened the same and have access to a brighter picture if you wish.



Tho the ceiling pjs like Cliff's and Clarence's and Art's obviously take the cake here, and deliver noticebly tighter and more defined images when really blown up for viewing here on the thread, CRT RPTVs can be calibrated for stunning fidelity as well, and for a fraction of the price it takes to set up and maintain a ceiling pj scenario.


All it takes is the touch of the master's hand, on ALL CRT tech, for magic to happen...and that may not even necessarily be the hands of a pro calibrator. Some amazingly true to life pictures have been rendered by DIYers out there, who have had the drive and tenacity to man the learning curves and master them on their own.



Mr Bob


----------



## MikeEby

No Country For Old Men















































Mike


----------



## CaspianM

Nice shots Mike.

Are they from XG? What is the screen size?


----------



## Mr Bob

For those interested in the results of the Craig Rounds mod, I just discovered that the caps I removed for replacement by trimmers were not just all 22 pF - they were of 3 different values, all in that same range! His were all 68 pF. I have no idea which went where, would require a service manual to tell now. Perhaps Mit got ahold of Craig's mod and did some experimenting on their own, in the meantime.


What I CAN say is that I am now successfully using 47 on my user sharpness, as suggested by his white paper, where I WAS using 18! And the fidelity is stellar. Far better than even 31 would do right now. Still can't get rid of a pesky afterimage on all 3 colors to the right of edges, think I may be stuck with that. But the highlighting of a black edge with a corresponding white one on the vertical lines is markedly diminished, barely there now.


My curiosity is becoming really itchy, to remove the green one and put back in one of the fixed value caps and view the difference - I didn't view the window gray pattern before I did the replacements, thought I could do it by eye on program material, but getting the left window edges right definitely was the ultimate test. Unfortunately I had already installed the trimmers by then.


I'll let you know if I get the time to do such a thing, but right now doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon -


Perhaps someone out there will have me do this mod on their Mit and we will both see -



Mr Bob


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13377359
> 
> 
> Nice shots Mike.
> 
> Are they from XG? What is the screen size?



Thanks!


Yes XG1351 [email protected], 96" wide screen. These are my first attempt at screen shots, as I think I can do much better, I am not really comfortable with the camera yet. That movie has so much contrast and it seems like all the outdoor scenes are really blown out.


This weekend I plan on doing more with different resolutions and refresh rates to really quantify what looks best. Having the camera set at full manual and never touching the settings once dialed in. The Canon EOS remote software with live preview is really great for doing these kind of things. I will probably pickup the old standby TFE to use as a reference.


Mike


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Urga* /forum/post/13207908
> 
> 
> Screens CRT



Hmmm, Striking Distance saw this in the cinema on a large Cinerama screen at Bournemouth Odeon screen 1. Also have this on PAL laserdisc haven’t yet brought it on DVD. You wouldn’t if there is Dolby 5.1 version available as the region 2 is only Dolby stereo, still good thou.


I doubt I’d be able to get a good screen capture of the CRT monitor the camera is a bit of pig’s ear, no matter I’ll have a try. One other thing I can’t yet figure out is why the image looks as if its slightly off frequency when using composite signal. Its okay in RGB mode.


Oh, bugger, I can transfer the PAL laserdisc over to DVD-RW, then I can view the film in RGB mode on the DVD player. I’m going to set-up the cello DR-810 catch you bunch later. By the way lovely screen captures.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13378672
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Yes XG1351 [email protected], 96" wide screen. These are my first attempt at screen shots, as I think I can do much better, I am not really comfortable with the camera yet. That movie has so much contrast and it seems like all the outdoor scenes are really blown out.
> 
> 
> This weekend I plan on doing more with different resolutions and refresh rates to really quantify what looks best. Having the camera set at full manual and never touching the settings once dialed in. The Canon EOS remote software with live preview is really great for doing these kind of things. I will probably pickup the old standby TFE to use as a reference.
> 
> 
> Mike



Wow [email protected]!! I didn't think it could do it!

How do you feed the XG 72hz? HTPC?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13378672
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Yes XG1351 [email protected], 96" wide screen. These are my first attempt at screen shots, as I think I can do much better, I am not really comfortable with the camera yet. That movie has so much contrast and it seems like all the outdoor scenes are really blown out.
> 
> 
> This weekend I plan on doing more with different resolutions and refresh rates to really quantify what looks best. Having the camera set at full manual and never touching the settings once dialed in. The Canon EOS remote software with live preview is really great for doing these kind of things. I will probably pickup the old standby TFE to use as a reference.
> 
> 
> Mike



Not bad for your first attempt !! Looks good !


Great movie by the way !


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Hitman blu-ray...cool movie, Cliffy you'd love it. Also I think it was filmed with HD cameras so its digital all the way through.

































































Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, I have a stop in Chicago at the end of my Twin Cities tour at the end of March. You going to be having another get together any time around then?


Also, are you interested in getting your LR Mit looking better? We could put before and after shots up here -



Mr Bob


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13378952
> 
> 
> Wow [email protected]!! I didn't think it could do it!
> 
> How do you feed the XG 72hz? HTPC?



Yes, an HTPC.


I used my brother’s 21MP Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and not even thinking I grab a very wide fix focal length lens that was WAY too wide so I had to crop out most of the image. See the full frame shot below.


I shot in raw then processed to a tiff then cropped the image and exported to a jpg. I am amaze at how well a newer laptop can handle a 60 Mb tiff file. Did all of that while not getting out of the first row seat? If Cliffy saw this remote software in action I’m sure he would have to have it, aperture, focus, shutter speed & release are just a click away. It will turn you into a “Screen Shot Machine”, very addictive.













Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13379661
> 
> 
> Yes, an HTPC.
> 
> 
> I used my brother's 21MP Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and not even thinking I grab a very wide fix focal length lens that was WAY too wide so I had to crop out most of the image. See the full frame shot below.
> 
> 
> I shot in raw then processed to a tiff then cropped the image and exported to a jpg. I am amaze at how well a newer laptop can handle a 60 Mb tiff file. Did all of that while not getting out of the first row seat? If Cliffy saw this remote software in action I'm sure he would have to have it, aperture, focus, shutter speed & release are just a click away. It will turn you into a Screen Shot Machine, very addictive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Very nice Mike!


Cliff


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13380492
> 
> 
> Very nice Mike!
> 
> 
> Cliff



Thanks Cliff,

I spent last Sunday doing a complete magnetic focus, and learned a nice technique for doing it. WARNING DO NOT try adjusting any magnetic focus rings if you are in any kind of a hurry I spend 3 hours on the green and 2 on the blue and its is not perfect yet.


I'm pushing that little projector pretty hard. But I am very happy with the results. If you look closely on the left side you see a small imperfection in geometry brought on by the high scan-rate but that is with zero overscan on the screen which I prefer. I may be able to reduce or eliminate it by changing some of the scan timings.


My thought is to use the digital images as a reference to find out what is really the sweet spot for the projector, switching resolutions can be so subjective because you are not doing a side by side A/B comparison, but using very high resolutions uncompressed images (5616X3744) it should take out all subjectivity. This is the true beauty of running an HTPC with infinite combinations of resolutions and refresh rates.


Mike


----------



## overclkr

Even the G90 get's SLIGHT geometry distortion at 1080P. Your setup is looking great!


Cliff


----------



## nashou66

Mike said


> Quote:
> but using very high resolutions uncompressed images (5616X3744) it should take out all subjectivity



That is a little secrete, set up your projector using a higher scan rate/resolution then you plan on using and then set it up to the resolution you want. I still have to do a complete set up to mine as you can see the softness, after a few board level changes i did this week it needs some tweeking. convergance is off as is the magnetics and focus. but Hitman was such a cool movie I had to take some screenies and the Russian girl is soooo hot !


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Hitman!!!!






































Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

I have a few projects on the table for this weekend.


























Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Awsome Cliff cant wait to see what you pic for Hitman screenies!


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13383085
> 
> 
> I have a few projects on the table for this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Looks like the Miller's project is already completed!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13382206
> 
> 
> Even the G90 get's SLIGHT geometry distortion at 1080P.
> 
> 
> Cliff



That's interesting, I wasn't really too worried about it either its not very noticeable.


I bought a second XG cheap on Ebay last week for spare parts or I have been considering a low cost blend using two TVOne 02-260 cards. The projector is in Shelbyville IL, and the seller didn't really care when I picked it up. Maybe when you get back from down under I could swing by with the EOS-1Ds Mark III and bang-off a couple of screen shots of the stack. I was busy the weekend of your last meet so I couldn't make it but would sure like to see the stack. The EOS-1Ds is a really remarkable camera, the more I used it the more I hated to take back, but it’s accessible during the weekends.


The new Canon EOS Rebel XSi has many of the same features and is priced for mortals.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13382852
> 
> 
> I still have to do a complete set up to mine as you can see the softness, after a few board level changes i did this week it needs some tweeking. convergance is off as is the magnetics and focus. but Hitman was such a cool movie I had to take some screenies and the Russian girl is soooo hot !
> 
> 
> Athanasios



The magnetic focus made a huge difference. I really don’t like using binoculars for mag focus so I attached a white panel (the side from an old computer case) to a tripod then adjusted the optical focus to minimum moved the tripod till the dots came into optical focus then adjusted the rings for roundness with no halo. I think I have seen this method before so I will not take credit for it, it might be in the holy focus thread. BTW Hitman does look good, I just picked up a $17 clearance copy of HD-DVD American Gangster from wally world I plan to watch after I stop by my brothers studio and pick up the EOS MkIII again.



















Mike


----------



## nashou66

I'll have to try that out mike I might know some oen who has an analog blend unit you could try out and buy from him. PMing you now.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13383097
> 
> 
> Awsome Cliff cant wait to see what you pic for Hitman screenies!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I popped Hitman into my PS3 and it WILL NOT PLAY. The PS3 only see's it as a data disc........


Cliff


----------



## nashou66

Cliff look under the left side of your package its a two disc set

.

Athansios


PS I did the same thing and realized it after i returned it for another !


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13384539
> 
> 
> Cliff look under the left side of your package its a two disc set
> 
> .
> 
> Athansios
> 
> 
> PS I did the same thing and realized it after i returned it for another !



Oh God if thats the case then give me stupid of the year award.










Or Give BD stupid of the year award.










Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Yeah why would they put the other disc on the side that you first see!!!! You would think they should put the blu-ray disc on the side you see first. idiots !...not you Cliffy!










Athanasios


PS I got that award before you did !


----------



## overclkr




----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13384648
> 
> 
> Yeah why would they put the other disc on the side that you first see!!!! You would think they should put the blu-ray disc on the side you see first. idiots !...not you Cliffy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios
> 
> 
> PS I got that award before you did !




The HD-DVD of Zodiac was the same way. Got already to watch it and all that was there was SD supplement crap. I said WTF? Looked under the ads in the package and there was disk one.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13384648
> 
> 
> Yeah why would they put the other disc on the side that you first see!!!! You would think they should put the blu-ray disc on the side you see first. idiots !...not you Cliffy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios
> 
> 
> PS I got that award before you did !



Athanasios,


I found this movie to be not a very good transfer. Very soft. I'm looking foward to posting some I-Robot shots.



























































Cliff


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13386112
> 
> 
> Athanasios,
> 
> 
> I found this movie to be not a very good transfer. Very soft. I'm looking foward to posting some I-Robot shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



I hate that, Sony sucks! I wonder if there are pulling the same crap as TFE now they don't have competition. I never have seen a bad transfer on HD-DVD. I hope it's not a sign of things to come.


Mike


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13388381
> 
> 
> I hate that, Sony sucks! I wonder if there are pulling the same crap as TFE now they don't have competition. I never have seen a bad transfer on HD-DVD. I hope it’s not a sign of things to come.
> 
> 
> Mike



I can't speak much for Blu Ray but I agree with you regarding HD-DVD transfers. I was never disappointed with any of their releases. Even 2001 A Space Odyssey, a 40 year old film was an excellent transfer to HD-DVD which was nice as it's one of my favs.


Mike, is the 1351 your first XG? How long have you had it? I'm probably going to switch a green tube from my 110 into an 852 tomorrow. Kind of nervous as I have never done a tube swap.


Nice shots by the way!


----------



## nashou66

I agree it was a bit soft I thought it was all in my poor set up but it looks like some is in the transfer as easily seen in your sreenies.



> Quote:
> I can't speak much for Blu Ray but I agree with you regarding HD-DVD transfers. I was never disappointed with any of their releases. Even 2001 A Space Odyssey, a 40 year old film was an excellent transfer to HD-DVD which was nice as it's one of my favs.



I'm not sure about that, both formays have great good and bad tranfers and with HD-DVD i found more have some black crush , especially the Mummy movies, unless its my player. I had really bad black crush or noise not sure what it was in the scenes where the one guy looses his glasses and is attacked by the mummy. that whole segment had a bad blotchy look to the dark sceans. At first I thought it was my projector so i took out Aeon flux on Blu-ray and played some dark sceans and they were nice and inky black with the shadow detail i was used to. Put back in the Mummy and back to those sceans yucky! so ipoped in the standard DVD of the mummy and no black crush or that noise. So i attributed it to the HD-DVD transfer. And i see more of this with the HD DVD's i have than blu-ray.


Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13388487
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about that, both formays have great good and bad tranfers and with HD-DVD i found more have some black crush , especially the Mummy movies, unless its my player. I had really bad black crush or noise not sure what it was in the scenes where the one guy looses his glasses and is attacked by the mummy. that whole segment had a bad blotchy look to the dark sceans. At first I thought it was my projector so i took out Aeon flux on Blu-ray and played some dark sceans and they were nice and inky black with the shadow detail i was used to. Put back in the Mummy and back to those sceans yucky! so ipoped in the standard DVD of the mummy and no black crush or that noise. So i attributed it to the HD-DVD transfer. And i see more of this with the HD DVD's i have than blu-ray.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Well, the HD-DVD players do have a known black crush problem. At least with the lower end units like mine (A2), not sure about the flagship models such as the A35 and XA2? I borrowed my dad's Panny BDP-30K Blu Ray player and while I did not have a lot of time with it, I would have to say that I was more impressed with the audio than the video.


----------



## overclkr

I,Robot part one Blue Ray 1080P


----------



## overclkr











































































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Yes cliff iRobot looks much cleaner, I wonder why Hitman looks so soft? They say it was an all digital movie? maybe this is fuel for those analog lovers out there !(I am one of them still love my vinyl). But this iRobot transfer look good so far Cliffy!


Athanasios


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Nice Shots...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13388641
> 
> 
> Yes cliff iRobot looks much cleaner, I wonder why Hitman looks so soft? They say it was an all digital movie? maybe this is fuel for those analog lovers out there !(I am one of them still love my vinyl). But this iRobot transfer look good so far Cliffy!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



It is absolutely STUNNING.

















I need to take a break for a while though. Maybe later I'll get to round two.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13388647
> 
> 
> Nice Shots...



Thanks big dog!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13383635
> 
> 
> That's interesting, I wasn't really too worried about it either its not very noticeable.
> 
> 
> I bought a second XG cheap on Ebay last week for spare parts or I have been considering a low cost blend using two TVOne 02-260 cards. The projector is in Shelbyville IL, and the seller didn't really care when I picked it up. Maybe when you get back from down under I could swing by with the EOS-1Ds Mark III and bang-off a couple of screen shots of the stack. I was busy the weekend of your last meet so I couldn't make it but would sure like to see the stack. The EOS-1Ds is a really remarkable camera, the more I used it the more I hated to take back, but it's accessible during the weekends.
> 
> 
> The new Canon EOS Rebel XSi has many of the same features and is priced for mortals.
> 
> 
> Mike



Sorry I missed this Mike!


By all means, your welcome anytime.


----------



## dropzone7

Looking good! I Robot was a fun movie too.


I am playing around with some photo editing. I should have been cropping my screen shots all along. It really cleans things up and takes away the barrel effect of my camera.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/13378913
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bugger, I can transfer the PAL laserdisc over to DVD-RW, then I can view the film in RGB mode on the DVD player. I’m going to set-up the cello DR-810 catch you bunch later. By the way lovely screen captures.





What DVD player gives you the option of RGB output??? And if it's an HD disc player, does the RGB info bypass HDCP and let the RGB play unencrypted on upconverts?


That would be fantastic for Pioneer Elite owners, whose CRT RPTVs were equipped with RGB input. I don't see any noticeable differences between component and RGB on such machines, but it would be good to know...



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13388418
> 
> 
> I'm probably going to switch a green tube from my 110 into an 852 tomorrow. Kind of nervous as I have never done a tube swap.



Try and keep all your yokes and magnet arrays in place on the neck of each, not altering any of that, otherwise they will all have to be done over from scratch, after the swap.


And be VERY careful of the thick HV wire once disco'd, if it's attached to the gun as is usual. It stays live, with tons of HV on it. I once was not careful enough and accidentally trailed it right over a digital board on a Runco. Zapped it, it had to be replaced, I never heard or saw a thing while it was happening...











And wear some sort of glasses. If it implodes, flying glass will be everywhere. That said, they are very strong and will only implode if badly handled. Don't ever hold one just by its neck down the neck a ways horizontally of course, at any point away from the bulky face area -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13388576
> 
> 
> I,Robot part one Blue Ray 1080P





Awesome shots, Cliff! Is that your Kodak Z610 in action?



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13389209
> 
> 
> Awesome shots, Cliff! Is that your Kodak Z610 in action?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yes.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13389181
> 
> 
> Try and keep all your yokes and magnet arrays in place on the neck of each, not altering any of that, otherwise they will all have to be done over from scratch, after the swap.
> 
> 
> And be VERY careful of the thick HV wire once disco'd, if it's attached to the gun as is usual. It stays live, with tons of HV on it. I once was not careful enough and accidentally trailed it right over a digital board on a Runco. Zapped it, it had to be replaced, I never heard or saw a thing while it was happening...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And wear some sort of glasses. If it implodes, flying glass will be everywhere. That said, they are very strong and will only implode if badly handled. Don't ever hold one just by its neck down the neck a ways horizontally of course, at any point away from the bulky face area -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Oh thanks Bob!







My confidence is already pretty low about this and now I have to worry about being blinded by shards of tube glass or being shocked by 30k volts! No, seriously thanks for the warnings and I will be very careful. I know my way around electricity pretty well. It's the magnetics I'm worried about, getting everything back in place and maintaining the astig. I'm only changing the green so at least it's just one tube. I have taken tubes out of my old PG recently just for practice but have never done a swap. My dad is coming over tomorrow to help me take down the other XG. I may try to convince him to stick around for the tube change just so I have another set of eyes and a little moral support. Sorry to get the screen shot thread so far off topic Cliffy!










Now back to your regularly scheduled program.


----------



## overclkr

You have this thread 100% on topic.


----------



## Alan Gouger

Cliff I know you felt Hit man looked soft but you would never know it from your screen shots. It looks awesome, like film.


I Robot looks like the new King of the Hill. Im seeing plenty of superkontrast


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13388418
> 
> 
> I can't speak much for Blu Ray but I agree with you regarding HD-DVD transfers. I was never disappointed with any of their releases. Even 2001 A Space Odyssey, a 40 year old film was an excellent transfer to HD-DVD which was nice as it's one of my favs.
> 
> 
> Mike, is the 1351 your first XG? How long have you had it? I'm probably going to switch a green tube from my 110 into an 852 tomorrow. Kind of nervous as I have never done a tube swap.
> 
> 
> Nice shots by the way!



Yes, this is my first XG, I have had it about 6 years.


Cliffy, Guess I have to I Robot on my shopping list. Those are amazing!










Mike


----------



## MikeEby

Hairspray (2007)
























































Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reio-ta* /forum/post/13391466
> 
> 
> Cliffy posted this:
> 
> The #### pattern is just dreadful. I see it on 100% of all digitals. That's why I've given up and must eventually save up for a "low end" 9" LC. When can they get rid of that crap? Even at horribly far viewing distances, like 1.5x or more width, even if you don't notice the #### pattern, the effects of it are still there during especially motion scenes. It makes movies more of a "look I'm digital" than "hey, I'm the movie, do you even notice I'm a CRT".



Part if not most of what you are seeing is a combination of Moire' and the SMX material. The RS1 is actually the closest I have seen digital come to CRT reproduction. Here is an example:











Cliff


----------



## Urga

Good Moorning .


Screens " Pearl Harbor " DVD Pal THX , Scart RGB :


----------



## Urga




----------



## MikeEby

Gone Baby Gone ---- very grainy-gritty looking!















































Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reio-ta* /forum/post/13394385
> 
> 
> Can you take a picture at the angle the RS1 on your screen was taken with your stack so you can see the #### of the SMX?



I'll try later tonight ok?


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice Gone shots, Mike. Gets my suspension off disbelief going, just fine!



Mr Bob


----------



## Brian Feldman

One of my favorite movies from the late 80's.. Planes Trains and Automobiles... VERY funny movie with Steve Martin and John Candy..


Great transfer to HD considering age of movie and that it was recorded on a DVR from Dish Network.


----------



## MikeEby

Nice shots Brian! Very funny movie, also staring the Chrysler Town & Country convertible. It’s on my list of the top 5 ugliest cars of all time. The Pontiac Aztec tops the list.


Was that on HD-NET Movie channel?


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/13395258
> 
> 
> One of my favorite movies from the late 80's.. Planes Trains and Automobiles... VERY funny movie with Steve Martin and John Candy..
> 
> 
> Great transfer to HD considering age of movie and that it was recorded on a DVR from Dish Network.



Bout time you showed back up!!!!!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13388686
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed this Mike!
> 
> 
> By all means, your welcome anytime.




Great! Can't wait to see some shots from a blend. That's a long ass flight though.


Mike


----------



## Brian Feldman

Yeah.... The car that get's destroyed by the two 18 wheeler trucks but yet "It will buff right out no problem"...
























For anyone that has not seen this movie, you owe it to yourself to check it out...


I recorded in last month from HD-Net... Really a superb transfer considering that the movie came out in 1987.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13395325
> 
> 
> Nice shots Brian! Very funny movie, also staring the Chrysler Town & Country convertible. It's on my list of the top 5 ugliest cars of all time. The Pontiac Aztec tops the list.
> 
> 
> Was that on HD-NET Movie channel?
> 
> 
> Mike


----------



## Brian Feldman

Thanks Dude!! Miss me??














> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13395537
> 
> 
> Bout time you showed back up!!!!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13395843
> 
> 
> Great! Can't wait to see some shots from a blend. That's a long ass flight though.
> 
> 
> Mike



Actually, now that I think about it, when I get back, the stack is coming down for maintenance.










My original LUG's should be back from VDC and I will be resetting the G90's to factory and doing a setup from scratch. It's time........


Hopefully it should take no longer than two weeks.










Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13396064
> 
> 
> Actually, now that I think about it, when I get back, the stack is coming down for maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My original LUG's should be back from VDC and I will be resetting the G90's to factory and doing a setup from scratch. It's time........
> 
> 
> Hopefully it should take no longer than two weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



But your present shots are dazzling as it is. Are we going to see any difference??? Are you?











My kind of owner - will never leave it well enough alone...





















Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13399088
> 
> 
> But your present shots are dazzling as it is. Are we going to see any difference??? Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My kind of owner - will never leave it well enough alone...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I had two tubes fail on me just before the last meet. They are at VDC being repaired and should have them back by the time I get back from Gino's. My original tubes focused better than the current ones.


----------



## deanzsyclone

What exactly am I looking at in this photo? Is the Rs1 and the g90 stack both projecting a green grid on the same screen, and the brighter more vibrant green lines are the rs1 or g90?

Sorry just lost a little bit without some explanation.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11497245
> 
> 
> Ok, found it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RS1 vs. Sony G90 stack green grid:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> 
> P.S. look down for more.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deanzsyclone* /forum/post/13405738
> 
> 
> What exactly am I looking at in this photo? Is the Rs1 and the g90 stack both projecting a green grid on the same screen, and the brighter more vibrant green lines are the rs1 or g90?
> 
> Sorry just lost a little bit without some explanation.



Yep, the brighter more vibrant lines are the RS1. Don't let that fool you though. The stack is brighter.










My camera just captured it differently.












Cliff


----------



## deanzsyclone

ohh, that's just one G90 running. Ok. Waiting for my millions to roll in (should be soon) just wondering what the best route to take for my next proj purchase.


I do like the blakes the stack provides. Wish I lived close enough to stop by and drool, I mean view.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13405766
> 
> 
> Yep, the brighter more vibrant lines are the RS1. Don't let that fool you though. The stack is brighter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My camera just captured it differently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff


----------



## Urga

Hello.

Screens CRT , DVD Pal , T° 6500K , Gamma 2,2 , Sharpness 1/7 :


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13406644
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]



hi Mr Bob,


I have the Swordfish screenshots too. Your first pic is what I have which. I think I posted it here as well like a month ago. Anyways, I combined them all together at
http://restricted.dyndns.org/moviescreenshots/ 

And earlier shots, http://restricted.dyndns.org/crtscreenshots/ 


Awesome shots, btw!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/13407523
> 
> 
> hi Mr Bob,
> 
> 
> I have the Swordfish screenshots too. Your first pic is what I have which. I think I posted it here as well like a month ago. Anyways, I combined them all together at
> http://restricted.dyndns.org/moviescreenshots/
> 
> And earlier shots, http://restricted.dyndns.org/crtscreenshots/
> 
> 
> Awesome shots, btw!




Awesome shots there y'self! That last one, of the wolfguy from X-men, also in Swordfish - oh yeah, Hugh Jackman - wasn't that shot from an upconverted SD DVD? Looks like the same shot I saw here awhile ago, saying it was -


I am using the new camera, the Kodak Z712 IS, and I think it's being confused on its focusing from not aiming at a screen that's really visible, like a front pj's is. Mine is essentially a visually clear/translucent lens stack sandwich with the image hanging in it, bouncing off a mirror down into the projected CRT faces, rather than up against a flat front screen, like yours. Some of my other shots from last night weren't in focus well at all. They were recognizeable, but essentially blurry, and not from camera shake, as I used a 2 second timer on all of them.


I'm going to have to play with that. This cam has both aperture and shutter speed priority, full manual, and manual focus. It also has a light that comes on in a low light situation temporarily JUST for focusing, it's nowhere near bright enough for redeye reduction, and comes on without the flash being on. But I couldn't make it come on last night during shooting, like I had at the restaurant!


Or does it come on with the flash not being on...?


Might have to break down and actually read the owner's manual...!












Mr Bob


----------



## anonymouse99

Nice shots folks, please remember to share your equipment details! Be nice to know your brand, a/v sources, etc. Thanks


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13408445
> 
> 
> Awesome shots there y'self! That last one, of the wolfguy from X-men, also in Swordfish, wasn't that shot from an upconverted SD DVD? Looks like the same shot I saw here awhile ago, saying it was -



yes, It's DVD and upconverted by HD-A2 hddvd player.



> Quote:
> I am using the new camera, the Kodak Z712 IS, and I think it's being confused on its focusing from not aiming at a screen that's really visible, like a front pj's is. Mine is essentially a visually clear/translucent lens stack sandwich with the image hanging in it, bouncing off a mirror down into the projected CRT faces, rather than up against a flat front screen, like yours. Some of my other shots from last night weren't in focus well at all. They were recognizeable, but essentially blurry, and not from camera shake, as I used a 2 second timer on all of them.



That's what I am experiencing with my Canon Powershot s400/s500. I still can't focus it well. Maybe, I'll try to put back the glossy protective plastic.



> Quote:
> I'm going to have to play with that. This cam has both aperture and shutter speed priority, full manual, and manual focus. It also has a light that comes on in a low light situation temporarily JUST for focusing, it's nowhere near bright enough for redeye reduction, and comes on without the flash being on. But I couldn't make it come on last night during shooting, like I had at the restaurant!
> 
> 
> Or does it come on with the flash not being on...?
> 
> 
> Might have to break down and actually read the owner's manual...!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Mine, flash is off. I'll do more test this weekend.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anonymouse99* /forum/post/13408568
> 
> 
> Nice shots folks, please remember to share your equipment details! Be nice to know your brand, a/v sources, etc. Thanks



Mine is a Sony 1272q. HD fed via HDFury to the Sony at 1080i.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anonymouse99* /forum/post/13408568
> 
> 
> Nice shots folks, please remember to share your equipment details! Be nice to know your brand, a/v sources, etc. Thanks



See post 1629 for details on mine. Tosh HD A2 via component, finally with contrast on the display set where it usually is, by using one of the priorities on the new Kodak Z712 IS, set at 2.2MP and being reduced to about half that size by Image Shack. As mentioned above, got some work to do in learning how to use the new camera -



Mr Bob


----------



## DVD MAN

Hello Gentlemen,


I recently had my G-70 calibrated and will like to post some pics I need a little help on posting the pics.


----------



## nashou66

DVD man an easier way is to do as reio-ta said, upload your pic to an imag hosting web site or if you have a .mac account you can make a web site on that to upload your pics to.


then open your pic in that web site and copy the address by right clicking and selcting save image adress or copy image adress. then come her to this thread and click







then paste your copied adress


and do that same for the rest of your pics.


Athansios


----------



## dc_pilgrim

There is a link to a how-to post images in my sig. Really easy.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reio-ta* /forum/post/13412906
> 
> 
> That's easy. Find a site like Image Shack, upload there. Do this in your post:
> 
> 
> [URL='http://www.imgxxx.imageshack.us/imgxx/xxxx/imgxxx.jpg%5B%5C%5CIMG']http://www.imgxxx.imageshack.us/imgxx/xxxx/imgxxx.jpg[\\IMG[/URL] ]
> 
> 
> Replace the \\ with a / instead though.
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> I have not had to do that last part at all, with the /... I just leave it alone, once Image Shack has generated the link for me.
> 
> 
> Except that I do delete their little ad tacked on the front of the link you get from them, that makes any clicking on their pix link directly to their site. It's enclosed and really easy to get rid of, just put a space between the 2 bracketted portions so you can wipe out the beginning one quickly and cleanly, leaving only the valuable part. I leave the final "[/url]" alone so as to just not have to waste any more time with it, even tho it shows at the end of each of my pix.
> 
> 
> Put the link directly into your post wording. Don't mess with the "Manage Attachments" option here in this edit box area, it only gets you a link. If you copy/paste their link DIRECTLY into your post, it shows up here directly as a pic, in your post.
> 
> 
> I also tell it to "delete details" before I copy/paste it, once the link shows up.
> 
> 
> I keep a running labeled tab of the links from Image Shack of shots IS has hosted for me in a file I call "Screenshots", so I can get one back if I need it, without going thru the "Host it!" process all over again.
> 
> 
> I usually resize mine to 800x600 - "for a 15" monitor". Or you can resize to bigger than that. Or smaller than that, as Urga is doing, against the urging of both Cliff and myself. We would like to see his shots bigger, and have both asked him to do so.
> 
> 
> Even so, Urga, I do like the accuracy of your colorations, and your overdoing of the ee has decreased significantly from your earliest shots. I am still blown away that it's a Philips!
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob


----------



## MikeEby

This thread was getting low on the list...I'll hold down the fort till Cliff is back in action.


NEC XG 1080p @ 72HZ HTPC

Ratatouille Bluray















































Mike


----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob

See that evil Hopkins face behind the rolling balls rails?


----------



## DVD MAN

VPH-G70 1080I & Denon 3800BDCI


----------



## nashou66

Nice shots DVD_MAN, glad you figured out how to post pics










Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby

Yea...very nice. Looks like I have to pick up IRobot. Pic #2 the one with the fabric background has great detail. What res are you running?


Mike


----------



## Urga

Good Morning .


Screens " Bruce Willis " :


----------



## Urga











































]


----------



## Urga




----------



## Urga




----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]


 









[/url]


----------



## MikeEby

I think PowerDVD runs with to much saturation but it is adjustable. I always wonder how one calibrates that? I use an HTPC. My gray scale might be a little red too.


The top shot is from Clarence's G90. The second is mine with the saturation reduced. The geometry is also slightly different.


I had never had see the shot by Clarence until today it looks like they are off by a frame Remy's eyes are different what are the chances?



















Mike


----------



## Clarence

Very nice!


Mine looks a touch too yellow and yours looks a touch too red (except for the dude's hair looks redder on mine).


But your screenshot has better shadow detail in the left edge... look at the label on the left jar and the handle on the base cabinet.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13465690
> 
> 
> Very nice!
> 
> 
> Mine looks a touch too yellow and yours looks a touch too red (except for the dude's hair looks redder on mine).
> 
> 
> But your screenshot has better shadow detail in the left edge... look at the label on the left jar and the handle on the base cabinet.



I'm still running the Parkland screen, since your on the Wilsonart it could be a little hotter towards the center, I don't know just a guess. Notice the wooden spoon handle is a little lighter on mine too.


Mike


----------



## CaspianM

Some dcams oversaturate/sharpen by nearly 70% in default. Not to mention under/overexposure and wrong white balance if not Raw processed.

Both these shots look great and surprised how close they look though considering two different pj's and cameras.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13441528
> 
> 
> This thread was getting low on the list...I'll hold down the fort till Cliff is back in action.
> 
> 
> NEC XG 1080p @ 72HZ HTPC
> 
> Ratatouille Bluray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Awesome Mike!!!!


----------



## Clarence

No more DIY screen for me!


I found a 133" 16:9 Da-Lite Perm-Wall from a local sports restaurant that's remodelling into a family cafe, so they removed their screen and projector.


It's the exact size I wanted... 65"x116" (133" diagonal) plus a 4" mitered metal frame wrapped in black velvet:
http://www.da-lite.com/products/prod...pID=96&cID=20# 


Last week's episode of Lost:


----------



## Clarence

Actually, upon further review of da-lite's site, my screen must be a "Da-lite Imager with Pro-Trim finish":
http://www.dalite.com/products/produ...?cID=20&pID=97 


... a step up from their Perm-Wall with 1" square aluminum.


----------



## nashou66

Clarence, I have a dalite as well but its a pull down, i want to remove it from the roller and fix it to a frame to loose the wavy's i have in it. what material do you have gain wise? Mine is the 1.3.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13489367
> 
> 
> Actually, upon further review of da-lite's site, my screen must be a "Da-lite Imager with Pro-Trim finish":
> http://www.dalite.com/products/produ...?cID=20&pID=97
> 
> 
> ... a step up from their Perm-Wall with 1" square aluminum.



Congrats big dog!!!!! Greetings from down under!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13489828
> 
> 
> Clarence, I have a dalite as well but its a pull down, i want to remove it from the roller and fix it to a frame to loose the wavy's i have in it. what material do you have gain wise? Mine is the 1.3.



I'm not sure what gain it is... there are no markings (except the frame which is marked 133"d and top/bottom)


I'm pretty sure it's the Da-Mat 1.0 material... there's zero hotspotting or glare.. no colorshift.. great light uniformity. But the color has good punch.


I couldn't do a side-by-side comparison with my wilsonart laminate... both screens are too large. But the dalite seems as bright, maybe even a touch brighter than the laminate, so it wouldn't shock me if it ends up being the 1.3 material.


I liked the laminate, indestructible (important with my boys and all the neighborhood rugrats) but it always had a slight glare and swirl marks from wiping it with windex. This material is much better. Black lining on the reverse side. Snaps every 3-4"... tight as a drum.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13490132
> 
> 
> Congrats big dog!!!!! Greetings from down under!



Man, I wish I was there with you. My wife would kill me if I went to Australia without her. We'll probably go there in a couple of years.


----------



## nashou66

I was thinking of a way to stretch mine, i was thinking of getting one of those snap rivit punchers and then make a frame that have the other snap section then covet the snaps with more frame. just afraid to cut the screen out of the metal roller housing and then not be able to get good results. Thing is prices on screen went way up since I got this, I paid 700 for it new 11 years ago. 16x9 12 footer.










Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




I liked the laminate said:


> Clarence, say it ain't so!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have been the torch carrier of the Wilsonart Designer White screen. Your G90 and excellent setup coupled with a simple DIY screen gave us huddled masses that can't spend thousands on a manufactured screen something to believe in. Oh well, if I had the chance I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. Congrats on the screen!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13489254
> 
> 
> No more DIY screen for me!
> 
> 
> I found a 133" 16:9 Da-Lite Perm-Wall from a local sports restaurant that's remodelling into a family cafe, so they removed their screen and projector.
> 
> 
> It's the exact size I wanted... 65"x116" (133" diagonal) plus a 4" mitered metal frame wrapped in black velvet:
> http://www.da-lite.com/products/prod...pID=96&cID=20#
> 
> 
> Last week's episode of Lost:



Great shots Clarence. Very punchy! Is ABC still 720p? I don't keep up with broadcast tv, our local ABC is still not digital yet. We have had NBC-HD since 1999.


Mike


----------



## Mr Bob

Credit for the supertight image structure of these pix goes to its owner, Chad Gilbertson, of Ellsworth, WI. Self-tweaked Pioneer 530 CRT RPTV, around 4 years old.


This was a limited contribution on my part, I only helped him with the deeper optics cleaning and dialing in the grayscale on sm, which he had nearly already pegged himself, in User. I did the Cantilever Technique for him, after which he saw that 2 of his colors were still out of focus on optical. He was going to correct that ASAP after I left. These pix are with more optical focus error than I allow in my full calibrations.


Awesome caretaking by an owner! I was very impressed -









[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


Our sleepy hero, about to experience a rude awakening -








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob

This set required restoration of the brightness from a relatively dim picture, which nearly every set I encounter these days in this series, needs. When I start, the Black Level is having to be run at +12-15 on every 510/610/710 I have been doing these days, to have enough light to even attempt to see into the dark areas. When I am finished, it is running at midpoint again, with full punch, as these pictures show.


This set is around 7 years old -








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob

Ken had already reduced his overscan quite effectively, using registers I had forgotten about in the sm, which I will continue to use in the future. My thanks to him for this little refresher course!


I was able to charge him half the usual o'scan reduction fee, to take over and straighten out whatever was still left to do, which was still a bit substantial out at the edges.


Still, the material in the main viewing area was quite tightly stitched together, emminently enjoyable. Pioneers have some quirks that take some getting used to, to come up with the picture being coherent all around. And of course the Pio grid is totally blank at the top, leaving several inches of height without a grid to align to -


Not bad end results for a 8-9 year old display. I'd say Elite owners have at least 3 more good years to look forward to out of their sets, of their pix looking just as good as we have here -




This first one shows how blue-white the grayscale usually is, OOB -


Memento -








[/url]



This is before the cleaning and calibration. Remember, the blue outlining does not appear to the naked eye, it is an artifact of the digital photography we are doing here.


Notice the bleariness, and the internal reflection on his cheek, of his bright forehead, on the opposing portion of the screen -








[/url]


This is after the cleaning, then deep cleaning, and then blackening of the bare metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -








[/url]





Hugh Jackman








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob

Ken had already reduced his overscan quite effectively, using registers I had forgotten about in the sm, which I will continue to use in the future. My thanks to him for this little refresher course!


I was able to charge him half the usual o'scan reduction fee, to take over and straighten out whatever was still left to do, which was still a bit substantial out at the edges.


Still, the material in the main viewing area was quite tightly stitched together, emminently enjoyable. Pioneers have some quirks that take some getting used to, to come up with the picture being coherent all around. And of course the Pio grid is totally blank at the top, leaving several inches of height without a grid to align to -


Not bad end results for a 7 year old display. I'd say Elite owners have at least 3 more good years to look forward to out of their sets, of their pix looking just as good as we have here -




This first one shows how blue-white the grayscale usually is, OOB -


Memento -








[/url]



This is before the cleaning and calibration. Remember, the blue outlining does not appear to the naked eye, it is an artifact of the digital photography we are doing here. Neither the owner nor I were seeing that blue outlining, from our normal viewing positions.


Notice the bleariness, and the internal reflection on his cheek, of his bright forehead, on the opposing portion of the screen -








[/url]


This is after the cleaning, then deep cleaning, and then blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -








[/url]





Hugh Jackman








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## overclkr

Hehe, it's gonna be my turn soon.

















The stack is warming up as I speak.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11573229
> 
> 
> I think I was table to swap the yokes in and do a quick and dirty in about 2 hours.
> 
> 
> The overall changes that the yokes make are noticable. And things are even different during adjustment. The only down side I'll imagine would be 2 pole rings. I think you're going to need at least 4 poles to help with centering.
> 
> 
> *1920x1080P - 8500 w/Frankenyokes*



How's it going big dog? It's been a while since you've posted some shots!


I think it's about time you focus and converge that bad boy and update us on the progress.










I'm completely ready to see some of THE BEST screenshots I will ever see on this forum.


We are waiting big dog. Albiet very patiently.










72hz 1080P in all it's glory.............


Yummy!


BTW, those shots I just quoted. I really like them a lot. The next ones are kick ass as well.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11586511
> 
> 
> Too exhasted to play with the yokes further last evening. So I'll just post the last of the ones I took on Sunday.
> 
> 
> These are from a Bruce Willis movie ("Tears of the Sun"). It's a very dark movie. I don't know much with the camera, or how to lighten it up, so here's what I got..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1080P w/ CJ's Frankenyoke mod*



These are the other ones that I like. This is fun, I've been going through the beginning of this thread and looking at these amazing screenshots in here and just dazzling at the quality. AWESOME!!!!!


How long is it going to be before we hit 100K reads?
























Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

This has been a great thread and I have seen many look alikes around the site but not as great and fun. Keep it coming you BIG DOGS!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13563451
> 
> 
> This has been a great thread and I have seen many look alikes around the site but not as great and fun. Keep it coming you BIG DOGS!













Sorry I've been a lazy ass since I got back from Australia. I had the WORST jet lag. I'm FINALLY feeling better now. Took a long time.


I did muster up thanks to the help from Bomrat (Arli) to get my stack retubed and was shocked at how close the color balance turned out. Plus the convergence has been STABLE FOR ONCE!!!!!!!!































I'm gonna post pics this weekend. Promise.


Off to watch American Idol with the wife on the stack.........


Cliffy


----------



## Curt Palme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13592937
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I've been a lazy ass since I got back from Australia. I had the WORST jet lag. I'm FINALLY feeling better now. Took a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> Off to watch American Idol with the wife on the stack.........
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yeah, it's not exactly jet lag that took time. It was something more like refractory period.










I believe an important picture is missing from this thread. I understand that Cliff was featured front and center on an Australian magazine. I also understand Cliff was quite proud of this mag cover..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Curt Palme* /forum/post/13593345
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's not exactly jet lag that took time. It was something more like refractory period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe an important picture is missing from this thread. I understand that Cliff was featured front and center on an Australian magazine. I also understand Cliff was quite proud of this mag cover..


































Bring it baby!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Patiently waiting for pictures from the down under trip...


----------



## MikeEby

Grand Prix HD-DVD NEC 1351 1080P





























































































Mike


----------



## MikeEby




----------



## CaspianM

Mike your XG1351LC looks real good man!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13626165
> 
> 
> Mike your XG1351LC looks real good man!



Thanks, I turned back on the blue defocus, with an HTPC I can't get the grey scale even close with it off, it's really not too bad with it on.


Mike


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13626007



Nice!


----------



## nashou66

Mike you have done a super job setting that NEC up! One i get done with all my marquee mods I hope to get it looking as good!



Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13626002
> 
> 
> Grand Prix HD-DVD NEC 1351 1080P
> 
> 
> Mike



Mike, those shots look fantastic!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!































Great job big dog!


Cliff


----------



## lordcloud

Mike, very very nice!!!


----------



## MikeEby

Thanks guys!

That is just the most amazing tranfer, the film is 42 years old! Its at 72Hz refresh too.


I shot some TFE blu-ray that look really good to. Be posting them in while.


Mike


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13626413
> 
> 
> Nice!



Most of the time my shots fall apart above 1200 pixels wide but check out the 1920 crop.


----------



## CaspianM

Are you still shooting canon DSLR? What lens?


----------



## dropzone7

Super nice Mike! That movie is an awesome transfer too.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I went to a home theater meet yesterday and took that along. When I got home last night I poured a glass and watched it. This is one of the most specacular transfers out there. It isn't perfect but it has some of the best most realistic color on any title IMO. It is a great film as well. I'd never seen it till I bought the HDDVD.


Art


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13628327
> 
> 
> I went to a home theater meet yesterday and took that along. When I got home last night I poured a glass and watched it. This is one of the most specacular transfers out there. It isn't perfect but it has some of the best most realistic color on any title IMO. It is a great film as well. I'd never seen it till I bought the HDDVD.
> 
> 
> Art



Yeah, its look reminds me of the incredible fidelity the VOOM channels had, before either of the HD disc formats came about and went public. Those VOOM channels were all a cut above the typical satellite/cable HD feeds of that time - a couple of years before BD and HD DVD - esp. in their fleshtones and color mixes and accuracies. REALLY looked like 35mm film, if not 70. They had one channel that played the whole James Bond series one after another, and the evidently very pristine and advanced VOOM signal chain really brought out the lifelikeness, in every episode, because I could see the difference between VOOM and the MPEG 2 Dish signal, which took its place when VOOM was assimilated by Dish.


They even made Flipper look good, and Wiseguy was mesmerizing, to one who had never seen it in anything but the 4x3 480i SD we had back then. Same with Charlie's Angels. I am amazed at how many series shows were actually shot in 16x9 back then. I had thought it was only Babylon 5 -


My Barco Data 800 was very happy...


Excellent screenshots of it too, MikeEby, my compliments to the chef -



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13629315
> 
> 
> Reminds me of the incredible fidelity the VOOM channels had, before either of the HD disc formats came about and went public. Those VOOM channels were all a cut above the typical satellite/cable HD feeds of that time - a couple of years before BD and HD DVD - esp. in their fleshtones and color mixes and accuracies. REALLY looked like 35mm film, if not 70. They had one channel that played the whole James Bond series one after one, and the very pristine VOOM signal chain really brought out the lifelikeness, in every episode. They even made Flipper look good, and Wiseguy was mesmerizing, to one who had never seen it in anything but the 4x3 480i SD we had back then. Same with Charlie's Angels. My Barco Data 800 was very happy...
> 
> 
> Excellent screenshots of it too, MikeEby, my compliments to the chef -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yep. I had VOOM and the VC-1 type codec that they broadcasted in is the best HD from any provider that I have seen. Top notch.


Cliff


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13629315
> 
> 
> Yeah, its look reminds me of the incredible fidelity the VOOM channels had, before either of the HD disc formats came about and went public. Those VOOM channels were all a cut above the typical satellite/cable HD feeds of that time - a couple of years before BD and HD DVD - esp. in their fleshtones and color mixes and accuracies. REALLY looked like 35mm film, if not 70. They had one channel that played the whole James Bond series one after another, and the evidently very pristine and advanced VOOM signal chain really brought out the lifelikeness, in every episode, because I could see the difference between VOOM and the MPEG 2 Dish signal, which took its place when VOOM was assimilated by Dish.
> 
> 
> They even made Flipper look good, and Wiseguy was mesmerizing, to one who had never seen it in anything but the 4x3 480i SD we had back then. Same with Charlie's Angels. I am amazed at how many series shows were actually shot in 16x9 back then. I had thought it was only Babylon 5 -
> 
> 
> My Barco Data 800 was very happy...
> 
> 
> Excellent screenshots of it too, MikeEby, my compliments to the chef -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



UFO is one of those great HD shows on the Voom stuff......that technicolor stuff was great !



Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13629404
> 
> 
> Yep. I had VOOM and the VC-1 type codec that they broadcasted in is the best HD from any provider that I have seen. Top notch.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Do you find it still as good now as it was then, now that it is owned by Dish and runs thru their MPEG4 sys?



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

I think I'll need to fire up the lowly 8500 and get back to the screenshots.


However, I'll also be coming back with some shots from a modified G90.


So when that happens, I'll be bringing closure to this thread..










Just give me a few more days to wrap up a project I've been working on, and from there, it's on!


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13626002
> 
> 
> Grand Prix HD-DVD NEC 1351 1080P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I really like this one.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13635866
> 
> 
> I really like this one.



Wow. And that's the super big version, crispness totally maintained! Not to mention those excellent fleshtones, and how perfectly it clamps to black properly, showing all details in dark areas, which can only come from a crystal clear optical path and superb Brightness/Black Level setting -


Nice!


----------



## Clarence

Did anyone else take screenshots from this sequel of "V for Vendetta"...


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/13634552
> 
> 
> I think I'll need to fire up the lowly 8500 and get back to the screenshots.
> 
> 
> However, I'll also be coming back with some shots from a modified G90.
> 
> 
> So when that happens, I'll be bringing closure to this thread..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just give me a few more days to wrap up a project I've been working on, and from there, it's on!



...and he's so modest about it too.


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, I think your 1351 looks better than mine, those are some amazing screenshots


Grand Prix rules for sure, I miss my HD-DVD already, hoping the BD comes soon










screen and it's size ?

equipment/gear in your setup ?











-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13630676
> 
> 
> Do you find it still as good now as it was then, now that it is owned by Dish and runs thru their MPEG4 sys?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



total utter **** Bob, Dish is doing sloppy downconverting to 1280x1080i and putrid bitrates, the Voom channels show literally hundreds of jaw dropping films a month everything from Sword of Doom, to Vincent Price classics to the entire Planet of the Apes series that was on this past sunday, it is so sad to see such good content look so bad, they would be amazing but the quality is just horrible as is any HD at this point in time via statellite


don't let Dish fool anyone with their Mpeg4 either, same downconverted low bitrate crap

















-Gary


----------



## skylooker1

Gary,


I have Dish, Bell Express, and now Directv. Directv has the best HD at this time, In my opinion. Still need some more time to compare.


MIKE






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13648439
> 
> 
> total utter **** Bob, Dish is doing sloppy downconverting to 1280x1080i and putrid bitrates, the Voom channels show literally hundreds of jaw dropping films a month everything from Sword of Doom, to Vincent Price classics to the entire Planet of the Apes series that was on this past sunday, it is so sad to see such good content look so bad, they would be amazing but the quality is just horrible as is any HD at this point in time via statellite
> 
> 
> don't let Dish fool anyone with their Mpeg4 either, same downconverted low bitrate crap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13648354
> 
> 
> Mike, I think your 1351 looks better than mine, those are some amazing screenshots
> 
> 
> Grand Prix rules for sure, I miss my HD-DVD already, hoping the BD comes soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> screen and it's size ?
> 
> equipment/gear in your setup ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Thanks Gary, HTPC ATI HD3850 connected via RGBHV w/Powerstrip 1920X1080p @72Hz & HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo drive,


92" 16:9 Parkland Plastic screen Gain ???? total cost about $70 including homemade frame its about 6 years old.


Countless hours tweaking







.


Mike


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13651845
> 
> 
> HTPC ATI HD3850 connected via RGBHV w/Powerstrip *1920X1080p @72Hz*










Wow!







Didn't know the 1351 had it in them. What sort of pixel clock are you sending?


Kudos Mike!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13652344
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't know the 1351 had it in them. What sort of pixel clock are you sending?
> 
> 
> Kudos Mike!



It is very high 209Mhz see Powerstrip timing below, it cannot resolve it perfectly the 1:1 pattern below this was before I moved the projector about 8" closer to screen. Now it is better but I forgot to take a shot of the pattern with the projector in the new position I will catch it next time I do some shots.




















Mike


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/13648439
> 
> 
> total utter **** Bob, Dish is doing sloppy downconverting to 1280x1080i and putrid bitrates, the Voom channels show literally hundreds of jaw dropping films a month everything from Sword of Doom, to Vincent Price classics to the entire Planet of the Apes series that was on this past sunday, it is so sad to see such good content look so bad, they would be amazing but the quality is just horrible as is any HD at this point in time via statellite
> 
> 
> don't let Dish fool anyone with their Mpeg4 either, same downconverted low bitrate crap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary




I miss VOOM!


Both my roomie and I followed the end of VOOM as we knew it with bated breath, cheering for the small gains whenever possible, but ultimately mourning the death of a huge, bright star.












Mr Bob


----------



## MikeEby

TFE anyone?




























































































Mike


----------



## MikeEby

Couple more.




















Mike


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13654659
> 
> 
> It is very high 209Mhz see Powerstrip timing below, it cannot resolve it perfectly the 1:1 pattern below this was before I moved the projector about 8" closer to screen. Now it is better but I forgot to take a shot of the pattern with the projector in the new position I will catch it next time I do some shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Mike when showing scope movies you need to try Active Area Scanning.

Why waste resolution on the black bars in the film? set your res to 800p or 817p depending on 2:35 or 2:40 respectively. this way lower bandwidth but are still showing that same amount of active image, this way you might be able to push it to 96Hz !!!! but try it at 72 Hz and let me know what you think.


read this thread:

Active Area Scanning 


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13655399
> 
> 
> Mike when showing scope movies you need to try Active Area Scanning.
> 
> Why waste resolution on the black bars in the film? set your res to 800p or 817p depending on 2:35 or 2:40 respectively. this way lower bandwidth but are still showing that same amount of active image, this way you might be able to push it to 96Hz !!!! but try it at 72 Hz and let me know what you think.
> 
> 
> read this thread:
> 
> Active Area Scanning
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I tried that and it does work well, the problem is PowerDVD has such crappy AR control and YXY is very cumbersome. Plus YXY it wouldn't even work with PowerDVD until the last release came out, one of the things I need to revisit.


Mike


----------



## nashou66

I think you'll be amazed if you get it to work..right now it looks awesome but i think it will be much better with AAS and less work for your PJ too.


Athanasios


----------



## Gaber

MikeEby,


maybe I missed it in the 60 pages of this thread, but what size screen are you using and how close to the screen is your nec? thanks


gabe


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13651845
> 
> 
> Thanks Gary, HTPC ATI HD3850 connected via RGBHV w/Powerstrip 1920X1080p @72Hz & HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo drive,
> 
> 
> 92" 16:9 Parkland Plastic screen Gain ???? total cost about $70 including homemade frame its about 6 years old.
> 
> 
> Countless hours tweaking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Mike



Right there for screen type and size.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13627501
> 
> 
> Are you still shooting canon DSLR? What lens?



CaspianM,


Yes a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III. EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM

Here is the meta-data from the close up of Leeloo. Shot manual including focus F11 2.5 seconds image stabilization off in raw then processed to an 8 bit tiff. Cropped the bars out full res, then resized to 1200 wide. All shots were done using the live view software controlling the camera remote that is so slick you never have to leave your seat while doing a screen shot.


Camera Model Name : Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III

Firmware : Firmware Version 1.0.6

Shooting Date/Time : 4/12/2008 16:33:00

Tv(Shutter Speed) : 2.5Sec.

Av(Aperture Value) : F11

Metering Modes : Evaluative metering

Exposure Compensation : 0

ISO Speed : 100

Lens : EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM

Focal Length : 45.0 mm

Image size : 5616 x 3744

Image Quality : RAW

Flash : Off

White Balance : PC-1(Untitled)

AF mode : Manual (MF)

Picture Style : Standard

Parameters : Tone Curve : Standard

Sharpness level : -

Pattern Sharpness : -

Contrast : 0

Sharpness : 3

Color saturation : 0

Color tone : 0

Highlight tone priority : No

Color matrix -

Color Space Adobe RGB

File Size 18743 KB

Dust Delete Data : No



Mike


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gaber* /forum/post/13659220
> 
> 
> 
> how close to the screen is your nec? thanks
> 
> 
> gabe



121.25" from the surface of the screen to the front edge of the green lens, HD-145 Lenses.


Mike


----------



## CaspianM

Excellent job on both ends..XG set up and photo's.


----------



## nashou66

Mike explain to me the live view software, and will it work with the rebel XTi i think i might get one.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13660681
> 
> 
> Mike explain to me the live view software, and will it work with the rebel XTi i think i might get one.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




You can control most of the camera functions from the PC via USB2, fstop, shutter speed, ISO & focus you can go to a live view window and focus the camera all from the PC. The live update is slow, probably only 5FPS but it gets the job done there is also more noise in the live image and I think it locks the mirror up while in live mode so the optical viewfinder is disabled but when shooting long exposers on a tripod the mirror should be locked up anyway.


It has one cool feature where you can turn a grid on in liveview to align the screen to your images or what ever you are shooting, this makes cropping the image much easier in post. I managed to get mine aligned within just a few pixels in seconds.


When you take your shot it goes directly to the PC, not to the camera memory device. This saves a lot of time in the workflow. With the 1Ds a 21MP raw image uploads to the PC in about 1.5 seconds.


My brother uses the camera primary to shoot RV interiors/exteriors and some table top work, for this application liveview saves a huge amount of time in the workflow.



Mike


----------



## nashou66

I'll have to see if that is available with the XTi


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13661187
> 
> 
> I'll have to see if that is available with the XTi
> 
> 
> Athanasios




It is according to the Canon website. That looks like a really sweet camera.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=16303 


Mike


----------



## nickis2cool24

hey guys check out my pathetic screencaps from my lowly 1272. maxed out rasters, mounted level with the middle of the screen. low contrast/brite with gamma correction. all systems go except my camera and shaky hands are bottlenecking the quality of these screenshots. also i will admit the color is way off. needs more red gain imho. sharper than any of my friends 1272's because of my monsterus rosters.


----------



## nickis2cool24

i forgot to say those pics were taken at 720p 59.94hz. the 1600x1200 pic was taken at 60hz


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickis2cool24* /forum/post/13661457
> 
> 
> hey guys check out my pathetic screencaps from my lowly 1272. maxed out rasters, mounted level with the middle of the screen. low contrast/brite with gamma correction. all systems go except my camera and shaky hands are bottlenecking the quality of these screenshots. also i will admit the color is way off. needs more red gain imho. sharper than any of my friends 1272's because of my monsterus rosters.



Pathetic?????? Those look great! Good job. Your windows desktop text is tight.


Mike


----------



## nickis2cool24

thanx, ive ran it at 2048x1536 and it does this weird ghost double image thing but its cool that it will run that hard when pushed. horizontal frequency is 93 which is one over its rated max and it doesnt turn into a smoke machine. with the projector lenses level with the middle of the screen i have the rear end of the 1272 tilted up and the tubes have a perfectly str8 shot. i set the plastic lense spacers to large, for best corner focus and run only a 84" diagonal 4:3 1.3 gain screen.


----------



## nickis2cool24

heres the roster usage


----------



## nickis2cool24

max roster try #2


----------



## VideoGrabber

Nick,


I assume you know it's "raster", though you keep writing "roster", perhaps for comic effect?


Also, Mike's comment on your [email protected] shot:

> _Those look great! Good job. Your windows desktop text is tight._ 
_ive ran it at 2048x1536 and it does this weird ghost double image thing but its cool that it will run that hard when pushed. horizontal frequency is 93 which is one over its rated max_


----------



## nickis2cool24

i'm not 100% on the h scan rate but it does do a nice 1600x1200. what worked well for me was maximizing the roster and making the center focus the sharpest. the corners suffer slightly. a 1272 is capable of scan lines at 720p. i'm using hd-8 lenses which have proven more effective than the pt-43's and the pt-65's. with a normal roster it resolves 1366x1024 beautifly.


----------



## nickis2cool24

on the 98 hz scan rate its not happy. it has a ghost image and i use powerstrip for all my resolutions. havnt played with the porches yet


----------



## nickis2cool24

all my images have been scaled down from 2560x1920 so i think they turned out pretty good. i'll get one up with the whole screen unscaled sometime soon. my bg808s smokes my 1272 for resolution. i run it at 2048x1536 and its razer sharp maxed rosters, low brite/contrast on a 84" 4:3 1.3 gain screen. i'll post some pics of it soon aswell.


----------



## nickis2cool24

raster my bad, the scan lines disapear past 1280x960. my bg808s shows scan lines at 1600x1200 just barely so there is an abvious difference between em and es.


----------



## Brooklyn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VideoGrabber* /forum/post/13661883
> 
> 
> Nick,
> 
> 
> I assume you know it's "raster", though you keep writing "roster", perhaps for comic effect?
> 
> 
> Also, Mike's comment on your [email protected] shot:
> 
> > _Those look great! Good job. Your windows desktop text is tight._


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13661187
> 
> 
> I'll have to see if that is available with the XTi
> 
> 
> Athanasios



The Rebel XTi does NOT have LiveView.


Only the Rebel XSi, EOS 40d, 1DsMkIII and 1DMkIII have that feature.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13662204
> 
> 
> The Rebel XTi does NOT have LiveView.
> 
> 
> Only the Rebel XSi, EOS 40d, 1DsMkIII and 1DMkIII have that feature.



I thought live view was the control from the computer, it looks like the XTi has that.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13664833
> 
> 
> I thought live view was the control from the computer, it looks like the XTi has that.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




My bad, I think Kai is right only the XSi has live view. You can control the camera on the XTi with the control software but you cannot see live images from the camera, Clarence would know for sure.


Mike


----------



## nashou66

I thought live view was only to see what is in the view finder also on the 2.5" lcd screen?


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13666303
> 
> 
> I thought live view was only to see what is in the view finder also on the 2.5" lcd screen?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Athanasios,


The viewfinder on a Canon DSLR is optical, like a film camera. I might have my jargon wrong but what I considered live view is the sensor in the camera send a live image from the camera to a PC or Mac.


Mike


----------



## nashou66

The way I read it was Canon's Live View is on its own LCD screen.

I could be wrong.


Athanasios


----------



## nickis2cool24

yea i will admit i'm not much of a speller... my 1272 has 3,000 hours. ive tried the pt-65's with test patterns and i wasnt able to get the resolving of the hd-8's. the pt-65's were a little scratched up and some of the anti-reflective coating was gone which may have been a factor. the pt-43's were very similar to the pt-65's. i tried my hd-8 rev-b lenses from my bg808s on my 1272 and those are definitely better lenses then the stock hd-8's. i have had lots of bad luck with lenses to be quite honest. i do feel confident if i were to convert my bg808s to lc with hd-10 or better that would be an upgrade. i tried hd-6 lenses on my bg808s and they couldn't handle my monsterus raster sizes. also center focus was slightly worse. i would be interested in trying seeing the hd-144 or 145 lenses in action someday.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13664901
> 
> 
> My bad, I think Kai is right only the XSi has live view. You can control the camera on the XTi with the control software but you cannot see live images from the camera, Clarence would know for sure.



Correct... the XTi doesn't have Live View. The new XSi does have Live View. (Why didn't Canon increment the model name to XVi or XZ? XSi seems a step backwards.)


Here's a youtube video about the XSi Live View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB03KF-jDjI 


XSi Live view gives you ~5fps refresh, you can zoom frame the shot, but you can't focus... you have to drop the mirror to do that.


I can connect my XTi to a PC using USB, but all it does is give me the control panel where I can change ISO, aperture, shutter speed, etc. and you can save the image directly to your PC HD instead of (or in addition to) the XTi's CF card.


----------



## kschmit2

Have a look at this excellent video review to see Live View on the Rebel XSi in action:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ca...o_review.shtml 


Kai


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13666902
> 
> 
> XSi Live view gives you ~5fps refresh, you can zoom frame the shot, but you can't focus... you have to drop the mirror to do that.




Interesting, the 1Ds Mark III you can focus, I guess that is something you get for the extra $7K.


Edit: In the video it does show you can manual focus the XSi in live view remote software. Probably the 1Ds will not auto focus in liveview either because of mirror.


Mike


----------



## nashou66

I think the live view would be great to use as a focus tool for CRT's. Also to get a nice close up view while doing CPC astig adjustments. set up the camera and watch the computer screen.Tape a piece of print on the screen to pre focus the camera to the print, remove the print and put up the dots, adjust dots while watching the Live view on the screen.What do you guys think?


Athanasios


----------



## kschmit2

here's some screenshots of the Live View software:

http://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/rev...icro/micro.htm


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13667136
> 
> 
> I think the live view would be great to use as a focus tool for CRT's. Also to get a nice close up view while doing CPC astig adjustments. set up the camera and watch the computer screen.Tape a piece of print on the screen to pre focus the camera to the print, remove the print and put up the dots, adjust dots while watching the Live view on the screen.What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Athanasios,

I can't say about the XSi but the 1Ds has a great deal of noise in the live view. It's ok for focusing the camera but I don't know how well it would work for focusing the projector. Perhaps the live image from the XSi is better than the 1Ds. The microscope screen shots look better then what I saw with the 1Ds.


I have been wanting to try TSE's video camera/scope focus method. But for now I used a very simple low tech moveable screen method.











Mike


----------



## nashou66

I see mike, I saw your method looks good but I have always been troubled by the fact that if you dont have the optics focused right then it be hard to get the electronic focus right. I'd like to set up a mirror or a camera showing the tube face with no lens and do the electronic focus then put the lenses on and do the optical focus.


I have a scope now maybe i should try TSE's method.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13668876
> 
> 
> I see mike, I saw your method looks good but I have always been troubled by the fact that if you dont have the optics focused right then it be hard to get the electronic focus right. I'd like to set up a mirror or a camera showing the tube face with no lens and do the electronic focus then put the lenses on and do the optical focus.
> 
> 
> I have a scope now maybe i should try TSE's method.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Yep, the problem with my method too is you cannot see all if the screen at the same time, so you get one side in then throw out the other side. It just a game trying to get as close as you can.


Mike


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13659703
> 
> 
> Yes a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III. EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
> 
> Here is the meta-data from the close up of Leeloo. Shot manual including focus F11 2.5 seconds image stabilization off in raw then processed to an 8 bit tiff. Cropped the bars out full res, then resized to 1200 wide. All shots were done using the live view software controlling the camera remote that is so slick you never have to leave your seat while doing a screen shot.



Mike, can I ask why you chose to use such a small aperture (F11)? I'll have to try it myself, I always used a large aperture for my screenshots and a very quick shutter speed versus your 2.5 seconds.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13670286
> 
> 
> Mike, can I ask why you chose to use such a small aperture (F11)? I'll have to try it myself, I always used a large aperture for my screenshots and a very quick shutter speed versus your 2.5 seconds.



It seems like I get a little tighter focus, and doesn't blow out the high end as much. It was just trial and error, nothing scientific if anything the shots are a tad underexposed probably could open the lens maybe a half stop. That is what is so cool about shooting tethered to a PC you see the results quicker.


Mike


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13670653
> 
> 
> It seems like I get a little tighter focus, and doesn't blow out the high end as much. It was just trial and error, nothing scientific if anything the shots are a tad underexposed probably could open the lens maybe a half stop. That is what is so cool about shooting tethered to a PC you see the results quicker.
> 
> 
> Mike



What software do you use to see your shots instantly on the PC?


What do you use for RAW processing?


----------



## kschmit2

Gino,


the EOS Utility is used to perform remote shooting. If you keep Digital Photo Professional opened in the background you will instantly see the images there.


----------



## overclkr

I am Legend 1080P Uncalibrated and Retubed G90 Stack after 2 tube failure and reinstall:


----------



## overclkr


































































Cliff


----------



## MikeEby

Great shots Cliff! Good to see the stack is alive & healthy again, damn so much range it has. Too funny I shot these last weekend, seemed way to dark so I didn't post them oh well what the hell. Mine look soooo dark too red too rather sickly.
























































I will be trying out a gamma boost box this weekend see if I can get anymore brightness without loosing the low end.


Mike


----------



## overclkr

Keep up the good work Mike.










Those are looking most excellent and will get even better.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Damn, this thread is less than 1500 reads from 100K!










SWEET!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Speaking of, MR. PARKER, UM HOWS THAT G90 SETUP COMING ALONG?????































Ooooohhhhh, that is gonna look so good!


Cliff


----------



## MikeEby

Cliff, Did you notice any wierd blue flaring in "I am Legend". When he was sitting in kitchen with the frig in the background. I intended to grab a shot of it but forgot.


It's pretty funny to go back to some of the early shot in this thread and see how the bar has been raised.


This is still my favorite of all time:











Mike


----------



## overclkr

Yes, I did notice.


The transfer at IMAX was actually VERY SOFT especially compared to the new Batman movie that they previewed. Now THAT movie will be some SERIOUS screenshot material for CRT.










Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13684141
> 
> 
> Yes, I did notice.
> 
> 
> The transfer at IMAX was actually VERY SOFT especially compared to the new Batman movie that they previewed. Now THAT movie will be some SERIOUS screenshot material for CRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



The shots of the city in "I am Legend" came out real soft. This is soft as hell but a really cool shot.











I worked on the fuel control for the Blackbird so it has some special meaning.


Mike


----------



## lordcloud











VS.









VS.










CRT vs a digital from the Blu Ray screenshot thread


----------



## lordcloud

Pt. 2










VS


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13684262
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT vs a digital from the Blu Ray screenshot thread



lord,

Do you know what digital projector?


Mike


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13684299
> 
> 
> lord,
> 
> Do you know what digital projector?
> 
> 
> Mike



"PS3 Nikon D40 - Sony 60A3000 (best TV on planet earth)"


Quoted from the original poster


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13684262
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT vs a digital from the Blu Ray screenshot thread



DAMN!!!! Mine hasn't even been blessed yet by the master but that over sharpened horribly off color shot looks like crap. Actually looks like a much smaller panel than 10ft wide. Look at the letters on the PS3 display. They are Blue as well as the whole top of the picture.










Something is not jiving with that display.


Cliff


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13684374
> 
> 
> DAMN!!!! Mine hasn't even been blessed yet by the master but that over sharpened horribly off color shot looks like crap. Actually looks like a much smaller panel than 10ft wide. Look at the letters on the PS3 display. They are Blue as well as the whole top of the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something is not jiving with that display.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Definitely agree that there's a blue tint to the pic, and it looks too sharp, much like digital in general imho.


----------



## nashou66

Cliff you have to get Grand Prix, just watched it , the whole movie is a screen shot!!!! I definitely want to see the stack do that.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13684609
> 
> 
> Cliff you have to get Grand Prix, just watched it , the whole movie is a screen shot!!!! I definitely want to see the stack do that.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I've had that movie for a very long time now. I could have swore I took a few shots. Let me dig.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13684374
> 
> 
> DAMN!!!! Mine hasn't even been blessed yet by the master but that over sharpened horribly off color shot looks like crap. Actually looks like a much smaller panel than 10ft wide. Look at the letters on the PS3 display. They are Blue as well as the whole top of the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something is not jiving with that display.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Probably the typical OOB grayscale, where they all compete with each other in the marketplace for the highest of light levels by making the whites blue-white. Typical...


The pillow in the first pic is the cream white that it's supposed to be, obviously recognizeable. The digital can be realigned for the correct whites - and grays, and blacks - via ISF. Doubt that he REALLY has a blue pillow, in that movie...


KEN! Where are you??? They need you -


Hell, I'll do it. Send him my contact info -



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Under 500 reads to go.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13683672
> 
> 
> 
> I will be trying out a gamma boost box this weekend see if I can get anymore brightness without loosing the low end.
> 
> 
> Mike



What box are you going to try Mike?


----------



## overclkr

Ahhhhh so painfully close.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

=8^)


This thread needs Caddy Shack screen shots...


----------



## overclkr

Almost there!!!!!!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13708524
> 
> 
> Almost there!!!!!!



STAY ON TARGET !!!!











Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Lets not get to 100G's with out some screen shots! thats what this thread is all baout! come on Cliff put something up!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13684213
> 
> 
> The shots of the city in "I am Legend" came out real soft. This is soft as hell but a really cool shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked on the fuel control for the Blackbird so it has some special meaning.
> 
> 
> Mike



Awesome aircraft, SR-71 seen several youtube documentary videos on this remarkable flying machine. So when is Final Approach coming out on DVD region 2?


----------



## JBLsound4645

The colour as tint of green in it!









Too dark and almost perfect!









The colour has tint of blue in it!


----------



## JBLsound4645

*Urga*


Hi there


Here's a few of the PAL Laserdisc transfers to DVD-RW I did last month, now I can play film with less noise on the screen in RGB mode, sure it's a bit iffy looking but its better than kick in the teeth.


The Dolby stereo 4:2:4 also came out very well, not bad for Cello DR-810, at £59.00 pounds.


There's a little edging on the Laserdisc but I can live with that, I mean it's better than silverfish!


----------



## JBLsound4645

More Bruce on the water in Striking Distance rated 15.


----------



## JBLsound4645

Brainstorm (1983) Laserdisc to DVD-RW screen capture isn't too bad on the POV shots, the expansion of the image opens up on the vertical rather then the original on the horizontal, like to see proper DVD come about on region 2 DVD.


----------



## Kysersose

Cleaned up the thread. Come on guys... don't get this one shut down.


Kyser


----------



## overclkr

Hehe, what page do I have the Dtheater models on that Clarence took?????


Now those were some nice shots!










Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Damn I forgot about those!!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

The Loaner. 8ft wide Silver Star screen 1080P/60.

































































Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Bright..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13737626
> 
> 
> Bright..



The rest of the pics I took were over exposed. I couldn't post them. Arli is obviously pumping some light off of that screen. I'm going to go back and take more with different settings. Hopefully they will turn out better.


Not that these are bad in any way.










So sup out in the paradise of Americanizm?????










Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Well I hope this is spelt right, I only speak Arabic, can't write or read it.










Es salaam aleikom. (may peace be upon you)


Alhamdu lillah, shukran Gazillan (I'm fine thank you, very much)


Kaifa Halok? (How are you)


Boy I never thought I would use Arabic. I learned Egyptian Arabic, and Hyrogliphics in the 5th grade, my teacher majored in it. I can't believe I remember anything from back in the day. Too bad Egyptian Arabic is like Spanish is to Mexican. But I can get around fine they speak english here, well mostly. However people like it when you can speak their language.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13737917
> 
> 
> Well I hope this is spelt right, I only speak Arabic, can't write or read it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Es salaam aleikom. (may peace be upon you)
> 
> 
> Alhamdu lillah, shukran Gazillan (I'm fine thank you, very much)
> 
> 
> Kaifa Halok? (How are you)
> 
> 
> Boy I never thought I would use Arabic. I learned Egyptian Arabic, and Hyrogliphics in the 5th grade, my teacher majored in it. I can't believe I remember anything from back in the day. Too bad Egyptian Arabic is like Spanish is to Mexican. But I can get around fine they speak english here, well mostly. However people like it when you can speak their language.



How do you say "I'd Hit it!" in Arabic???????


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ana Adrabooha Hadak


Ana = I


Adraboha = Hit, to beat, bash strike (This is a feminine)


Hadak = That


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13739658
> 
> 
> Ana Adrabooha Hadak
> 
> 
> Ana = I
> 
> 
> Adraboha = Hit, to beat, bash strike (This is a feminine)
> 
> 
> Hadak = That



Thanks for the ammo.

















Cliffy


----------



## nzryan

NEC XG 1351 with moome DVI card,

Not the best photo's, but wanted to post some shots, will do some nicer shots if I can borrow a tripod/better camera.


edit: 1080p/60 Planet Earth, Star Dust on a 8 Foot Wide 4:3 Screen


bugger imagesack deleted the shots


were is a good place to host the shots?


----------



## Mr Bob

A colleague of mine is giving me a raft of **** over at the SPot, saying that screenshots are BS and that I should be able to take them lickety split, with little or no planning, experimentation, nor time. As if taking screenshots were a very simple thing, and that the time and care I have taken in getting ones I consider good enough to be worthy of posting, mean nothing.


He also says that CRT RPTV is not a worthwhile medium anymore, and that I am in severe denial about several things, among them trying to save it and make it last as long as I - as we all - can. I have mentioned these threads where screenshots are highly respected over here, and others where CRT RPTV tech is also highly respected. He says the only CRT medium worth having is front projection, which at least is some form of agreement between us anyway, I guess, tho I disagree that it is the only CRT medium worth caring about.


When I mentioned the huge numbers of views of such threads over here, he says that I am quoting numbers of views that make them impossible to read.


I would like some help in answering him. Here's the thread -


http://www.***************.com/fusio...d/141139/tp/2/ 


It goes to page 2, the freshest entries. You might want to start on page 1.



Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence

I agree... you shouldn't try to read too much from screenshots... especially a single screenshot where no control has been taken to depict a specific improvement or comparison.


Bob, if you want to use your screenshots to depict "before and after", then you should switch your camera to manual mode and keep all settings the same.


For example, that's what I did for these shots years ago when I first got my G90 and Terry F did a calibration...


My initial attempt at a setup *before* Terry's visit...









*After* Terry's calibration...










Same camera, same exposure settings, same source, same screen, same projector, same photographer.


If you're really spending hours to get screenshots, once you find the manual settings that work well with your camera, then you should be able to take several snaps in a matter of minutes.


Standalone screenshots especially from various digicams in auto mode should not be used as an indication of display quality, disc transfer quality, screen quality, VP performance, black level, or setup/calibration/calibrator quality. But if you control as many of the variables and settings as possible, then you'll be able to make a more valid comparison of the improvements... geometry, color, etc.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> He also says that CRT RPTV is not a worthwhile medium anymore, and that I am in severe denial about several things, among them trying to save it and make it last as long as I - as we all - can. I have mentioned these threads where screenshots are highly respected over here, and others where CRT RPTV tech is also highly respected. He says the only CRT medium worth having is front projection, which at least is some form of agreement between us anyway, I guess, tho I disagree that it is the only CRT medium worth caring about.
> 
> 
> When I mentioned the huge numbers of views of such threads over here, he says that I am quoting numbers of views that make them impossible to read.
> 
> 
> I would like some help in answering him. Here's the thread -
> 
> 
> http://www.***************.com/fusio...d/141139/tp/2/




Wow bob Chuck sounds like a real A hole!! and to think i was going to use him over Craig Rounds when i wanted my WS65817 diamond series calibrated!!!


Bob Some people you just cant make them see certain views and be open minded. Sure CRT is an old slowly dying Technology but that doesnt make it inferior to the new ones. Just think if the TV makers didnt give up on CRT and continued to push it further i have no dought that today it be much much better than when they basicly gave up on it 5-8 years ago. CRT would be pushing higher scan rates that 1080p easily and we wouldnt be married to one resolution pixel maping like digital, which really only looks good on its native resolution where as Crt is a multi scan tech. Ask Chuck why then the most demanding simulation displays want CRT? Sure digital is "catching up" , key word here, but for me the motion artifacts especially comet trails are enough for me to keep my CRT's for a long long long long time.

Now if we can only get Craig rounds to come up with more CRT mods for the Mitsu's like possibly accepting 1080p on the 9inch tube sets like mine!!! that be Sweet!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13754306
> 
> 
> Wow bob Chuck sounds like a real A hole!! and to think i was going to use him over Craig Rounds when i wanted my WS65817 diamond series calibrated!!!
> 
> 
> Bob Some people you just cant make them see certain views and be open minded. Sure CRT is an old slowly dying Technology but that doesnt make it inferior to the new ones. Just think if the TV makers didnt give up on CRT and continued to push it further i have no dought that today it be much much better than when they basicly gave up on it 5-8 years ago. CRT would be pushing higher scan rates that 1080p easily and we wouldnt be married to one resolution pixel maping like digital, which really only looks good on its native resolution where as Crt is a multi scan tech. Ask Chuck why then the most demanding simulation displays want CRT? Sure digital is "catching up" , key word here, but for me the motion artifacts especially comet trails are enough for me to keep my CRT's for a long long long long time.
> 
> Now if we can only get Craig rounds to come up with more CRT mods for the Mitsu's like possibly accepting 1080p on the 9inch tube sets like mine!!! that be Sweet!!!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Oh, Chuck still believes in the G90, as far as CRT tech goes...


And no, Craig won't be coming up with any mods to make our CRT RPTVs do 1080p. It takes electronics a lot swifter than ours have, to achieve the kind of freqs and shielding that 1080p requires. You can't just modify 1080i to get it to do p, you have to have completely different circuitry, starting from scratch.


WOULD be nice...!











Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/13753392
> 
> 
> I agree... you shouldn't try to read too much from screenshots... especially a single screenshot where no control has been taken to depict a specific improvement or comparison.
> 
> 
> Bob, if you want to use your screenshots to depict "before and after", then you should switch your camera to manual mode and keep all settings the same.
> 
> 
> For example...



Gotcha -



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud

Cliff's G90 VS. Screen Capture


----------



## Whazu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11490226



your a good man. enough said


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## clint999

why???


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/13724310
> 
> The colour as tint of green in it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too dark and almost perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The colour has tint of blue in it!



Since buying I Am Legend (2007) on region 2 DVD yesterday I've screen captured more a less the same frame or image.


----------



## Mr Bob

Mp -


What's with all the side stretching on your newest set of shots???



Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13772711
> 
> 
> Mp -
> 
> 
> What's with all the side stretching on your newest set of shots???
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Oh, I've noticed that as well, but as usual. My 8500 is not a finished product. It still needs a final setup and calibration. I'm changing boards far too much to do anything time consuming for now. I'll get around to that once I get the Bly Ray player, and that's when I'll polish off the theater.


The setup has been down for awhile. I noticed once I fired it back up, the Xbox 360 did instant internet upgrades. And it seems that the image was stretched more than what I remember. I can now see the image off the side of the screen.


I now have to make room this weekend to fire up the G90. Now that's going to be something to see. I can't wait.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13772711
> 
> 
> Mp -
> 
> 
> What's with all the side stretching on your newest set of shots???
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I noticed that too. I have the same flix on HD-DVD and it’s a 1:85 movie. It looks like yours looks might be stretched to 2:35ish.


Great detail and color though.










Edit: HAHA you got in before me.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/13775329
> 
> 
> I now have to make room this weekend to fire up the G90. Now that's going to be something to see. I can't wait.



Hmmmm...... Sounds like an excellent idea.










You are gonna LOVE the firmware.










I'm actually playing 360 Guitar Hero on the stack right now.










I'm addicted. This game is going to get burned in my tubes.































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13757345
> 
> 
> Cliff's G90 VS. Screen Capture



Any opinions on this comparison????


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliff, I think the point is that although your pictures can look very nice, camera's and the art of taking screenshots cannot critically show off what your system is capable of.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13775641
> 
> 
> Any opinions on this comparison????



Thats one of your older shots too, isn't it?


Mike


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nzryan* /forum/post/13752159
> 
> 
> NEC XG 1351 with moome DVI card,
> 
> Not the best photo's, but wanted to post some shots, will do some nicer shots if I can borrow a tripod/better camera.
> 
> 
> edit: 1080p/60 Planet Earth, Star Dust on a 8 Foot Wide 4:3 Screen



Those are great!... You shot those without a tripod?

Good to see someone else with an [email protected] posting some shots.



Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13775901
> 
> 
> Cliff, I think the point is that although your pictures can look very nice, camera's and the art of taking screenshots cannot critically show off what your system is capable of.



Exactly. At points with my camera as much as I actually like my screenshot, it just cannot capture the detail in the picture.


The key though is look at the resolution in the two shots. Damn dude, two G90's stacked and able to compete with that?????


Awesome.


I cant wait to see your shots. They are going to be even sharper.


Cliffy


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13775901
> 
> 
> Cliff, I think the point is that although your pictures can look very nice, camera's and the art of taking screenshots cannot critically show off what your system is capable of.



So true! I can only imagine how close the stack comes to the screen grab in person. But to be honest, I'm not always sure if that's the ultimate goal. I don;t know how close a screengrab comes to how it looks when on film, and if the screen grab or the projected image on film is the truer goal. But anyway. It kinda pisses me off to know I'm in salt lake and the holy grail of projector set ups is in Chicago. Where I'm from!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13776491
> 
> 
> So true! I can only imagine how close the stack comes to the screen grab in person. But to be honest, I'm not always sure if that's the ultimate goal. I don;t know how close a screengrab comes to how it looks when on film, and if the screen grab or the projected image on film is the truer goal. But anyway. It kinda pisses me off to know I'm in salt lake and the holy grail of projector set ups is in Chicago. Where I'm from!



I would say that you can only aim to show the source at its truest, whether or not that source is close to the original film is up to those that encode it. Just need to make sure you are able to resolve the full resolution, not clipping whites or blacks, primaries/secondaries properly saturated and grey scale tracking to D65 across the 0-100IRE range.


----------



## Mr Bob

And the bottom line, aside from the inevitable crispness challenges, is uniformity in our displays. How does it compare to whatever we are calling the reference. Is that reference 35mm film, is it a screengrab, is it what's out at the mall theaters, and are they 35mm film or DLP...


In the Bay Area here, evidently there's a new theater complex somewhere around here where all the theater rooms inside are now equipped with DLP pj's -



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13778303
> 
> 
> And the bottom line, aside from the inevitable crispness challenges, is uniformity in our displays. How does it compare to whatever we are calling the reference. Is that reference 35mm film, is it a screengrab, is it what's out at the mall theaters, and are they 35mm film or DLP...
> 
> 
> In the Bay Area here, evidently there's a new theater complex somewhere around here where all the theater rooms inside are now equipped with DLP pj's -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



In the Salt Lake area we have a chain (Megaplex Theaters) that has a nice amount of DLP theaters. I have to say, they do look very very nice. Crisp, clean, saturated. It looks like a step up from what they normally show. To the point that I will almost only go to a DLP theater. Now who knows the quality of the film prints that they display there, but the digital theaters do look better to me there.


----------



## CaspianM

FILM...Nothing compares.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13782780
> 
> 
> FILM...Nothing compares.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13782780
> 
> 
> FILM...Nothing compares.



Presented properly I agree, unfortunately ,I believe that few times do we get to see it's capability.










Art


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13782780
> 
> 
> FILM...Nothing compares.



Top notch film in a very good theater, with a good projectionist....yes I agree. But for almost every other time, a good DLP set up can look very very good. Don't knock it till you try it. I love film as much as everyone else, but film tends to look like **** in the local multiplex.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13784304
> 
> 
> Presented properly I agree, unfortunately ,I believe that few times do we get to see it's capability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Ask Ken what he thought of the DVD that I showed him tonight (or should I say this morning. :^))










Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13784387
> 
> 
> Top notch film in a very good theater, with a good projectionist....yes I agree. But for almost every other time, a good DLP set up can look very very good. Don't knock it till you try it. I love film as much as everyone else, but film tends to look like **** in the local multiplex.



How go you know I have not seen a DLP set up in multiplex? You assume too much.









We have some nice set up in Louisville, KY with film PJ's. Only a few times I have seen subpar contrast only when I went to see the movie after a few weeks run. However I see overscan time to time but focus and sound has been up there. Neither my CRT nor the DLP I have compare but then again I don't have the best of them nor most of you. The guy buys a $800 PJ with an Onkyo sound and cheap JBL's and cailms his is better than locals. That is just a plain misjudgment imo. DLP dosn't do it for me. Pixellation and in fact lower on/off is eveident. I do however empathize for those of you that have no access to a well cared/set up cinema. I will be sad if Imax goes DLP.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13785364
> 
> 
> How go you know I have not seen a DLP set up in multiplex? You assume too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have some nice set up in Louisville, KY with film PJ's. Only a few times I have seen subpar contrast only when I went to see the movie after a few weeks run. However I see overscan time to time but focus and sound has been up there. Neither my CRT nor the DLP I have compare but then again I don't have the best of them nor most of you. The guy buys a $800 PJ with an Onkyo sound and cheap JBL's and cailms his is better than locals. That is just a plain misjudgment imo. DLP dosn't do it for me. Pixellation and in fact lower on/off is eveident. I do however empathize for those of you that have no access to a well cared/set up cinema. I will be sad if Imax goes DLP.



The DLP presentations we have seen are obviously of different quality. I've never seen pixelation or any other signs of a sub par picture on any of the digital screens I've seen. But far too many times I haven't been able to say the same for film. Now don;t get me wrong, film is better, but I rarely get to see top notch film presentaions. I see top notch DLP all the time. If I had my choice, honestly, I'm not sure which one I would choose to go see. But at home, between CRT and Digital, that's different.


----------



## Sisyphus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13784387
> 
> 
> Top notch film in a very good theater, with a good projectionist....yes I agree. But for almost every other time, a good DLP set up can look very very good. Don't knock it till you try it. I love film as much as everyone else, but film tends to look like **** in the local multiplex.



I agree with this. The Warren Theaters here in Wichita are mostly digital now. Film can look great, but there are just too many variables that can screw up a film presentation (condition of film stock, projector, projectionist, etc). The only time I have seen screendoor was with one of the Warren's first 3 chip DLP installations, this was a couple years ago and it was pretty obvious it was 720p.


In the last year I have seen at least 5-10 digital presentations and they all looked great. Heck, I watched "There will be blood" a month ago at the $2.50/show Palace Warren in digital and it was awesome.


I'm sure there are digital cinema projectors out there that are not the best. But, if you happen to see a film with a good digital projector, you should be pleased.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13787036
> 
> 
> But at home, between CRT and Digital, that's different.



I actually prefer my own DLP over the multiplex except the size of the screen. I just can't live with 2K:1. My CRT is the closest thing to film but still not the same thing.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13787483
> 
> 
> I actually prefer my own DLP over the multiplex except the size of the screen. I just can't live with 2K:1. My CRT is the closest thing to film but still not the same thing.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *W.Mayer* /forum/post/13788276
> 
> 
> hi art



Now if you had this at home, I'm sure you'd be plenty happy, and so would I my friend.


----------



## CaspianM

What pj? I am happy with what I have except when I go to Imax or see a nice print in multiplex. I am a film addict.


----------



## Sisyphus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13788510
> 
> 
> What pj? I am happy with what I have except when I go to Imax or see a nice print in multiplex. I am a film addict.



From Barco Cinema Projector DP 2000:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1025179


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sisyphus* /forum/post/13789191
> 
> 
> From Barco Cinema Projector DP 2000:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1025179



VERY NICE SHOTS! I am thoroughly impressed!


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Yours:











Mine:











Cliff


----------



## overclkr

This one is my absolute favorite.


Just awesome!











Cliff


----------



## CaspianM

64 ftl. Wow!


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13788510
> 
> 
> What pj? I am happy with what I have except when I go to Imax or see a nice print in multiplex. I am a film addict.



I wasn't trying to imply anything, I only said you would be happy with it becasue you mentioned the size.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/13790550
> 
> 
> I wasn't trying to imply anything, I only said you would be happy with it becasue you mentioned the size.



Who wouldn't want that Barco!!?









That is a comercial set up in private. Would love to have one.









Having said that still film is the king unless the original is shot in video.


----------



## MikeEby

Lowly 8" XG & Tiny 8' wide screen - The Golden Compass





























































































Mike


----------



## overclkr

VERY Nice Mike!!!!! Very nice!


Cliff


----------



## nashou66

That movie has a super great Image quality, i loved it.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13792460
> 
> 
> That movie has a super great Image quality, i loved it.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



It does, it's not super sharp but very smooth and fluid. This was the first shots with Box 1021 installed.


Mike


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I think if this is actually a screen shot war ,as the thread title says ,I'd like to put in my vote for the this as the winner.











Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13797791
> 
> 
> I think if this is actually a screen shot war ,as the thread title says ,I'd like to put in my vote for the this as the winner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art




I don't know big dog. I'm very partial to quite a few in here.



















Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13797791
> 
> 
> I think if this is actually a screen shot war ,as the thread title says ,I'd like to put in my vote for the this as the winner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Actually, after I think about it, I'm going to agree with you Art.


Time for me to ride off into the sunset.










Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13804443
> 
> 
> Actually, after I think about it, I'm going to agree with you Art.
> 
> 
> Time for me to ride off into the sunset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Me too !










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13804676
> 
> 
> Me too !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



LOL.


I actually think I have been spending way too much time here and taking things way to seriously to the point where I really should just take a break. Time to direct that energy elsewhere for a while.










I gotta admit though, those shots are amazing. I could only imagine owning a setup like that. Incredible.


Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13804841
> 
> 
> LOL.
> 
> 
> I actually think I have been spending way too much time here and taking things way to seriously to the point where I really should just take a break. Time to direct that energy elsewhere for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta admit though, those shots are amazing. I could only imagine owning a setup like that. Incredible.
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Agree. I was going to upgrade my Optoma to a nice 1080 unit but bought this instead.










I need to get my room a bit wider to fit a 11" wide screen before any upgrade.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13804919
> 
> 
> Agree. I was going to upgrade my Optoma to a nice 1080 unit but bought this instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to get my room a bit wider to fit a 11" wide screen before any upgrade.



Here is a in car video of my Grand Prix GXP after I get my turbo kit hopefully some time this summer.









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwQ9f4cwCpk 


Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

Looks like dyno testing to me on the GXP.


----------



## overclkr

and another on the Dyno.


465 wheel horsepower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahFCdl30rwY&NR=1 


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13805354
> 
> 
> Looks like dyno testing to me on the GXP.



The first one is actually on the 1/4 mile.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13805396
> 
> 
> The first one is actually on the 1/4 mile.



It is a closed loop for sure.

My black Honda 919 dogs these cars in quarter and possible top end.









I have never ridden it to its limit but from what I have read.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13805449
> 
> 
> It is a closed loop for sure.
> 
> My black Honda 919 dogs these cars in quarter and possible top end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have never ridden it to its limit but from what I have read.



LOL it better!


----------



## CaspianM

It is not the fastest or greatest but is a BIG DOG performer for its CC.


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13804443
> 
> 
> Actually, after I think about it, I'm going to agree with you Art.
> 
> 
> Time for me to ride off into the sunset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



That Barco is stunning...I come from the other side (digitals) and like to check both screenshot threads and was stunned by this....amazing size, brightness and detail.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis Gabriel Gerena* /forum/post/13807496
> 
> 
> That Barco is stunning...I come from the other side (digitals) and like to check both screenshot threads and was stunned by this....amazing size, brightness and detail.



Yes, it looks really good. I have some questions on the gamma though because I checked last night that same frame on my stack (not calibrated right now after tube change) and my original screen shot is over exposed as are most of my shots but I have more gamma detail than his so I need to figure out if my detail is "too much" and adjust accordingly if so. I will address this with Ken.


Suprisingly though, looking at my stack then the screen shot, I am very close. Not quite as red as his, but very close.


In my screenshot, the lines in his forehead are missing and the detail from his neck was sharper on the DLP. Again, looking at the same frame last night I concluded that while his is sharper I'm sure being DLP, I was actually amazed at how well the stack held up (it looks much better in person than the screenshot). The detail in his forehead is there and his neck looks a bit more on par with what it should look like if the Barco screenshot is considered "reference".


At any rate, this is why I need a break. When I have to run back and forth from my theater to my computer to see if my system is doing well against such a high end projector or not, there is an issue with me and my hobby and it needs to be addressed, hence, I need to do something else for a while.


I've also had issues lately with comments made toward me resulting in feeling the need to "defend" my setup and this has got to stop. I am very very very happy with what I've accomplished with the help of my friends here and need to just enjoy it for what it's worth and move on.


This has been an excellent thread and will hopefully continue to be so in the future. Maybe one day I'll be back.










For everyone else:


Thanks for all of the nice comments on my shots! It's been a great ride!










Cliff


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

I would love to get more details on the gamma and details differences you mentioned. I have one similar screenshot taken as well from my 7210.

Not sure what problems youve been having around but I dont think you need to defend anything, first anyone knows that pictures are never exactly what you are looking at and different cameras, monitor screens ,etc will show different results for the viewer thus this is more fun that accurate and even useful in that regards.

Hope you keep posting...

Regards


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13808539
> 
> 
> This has been an excellent thread and will hopefully continue to be so in the future. Maybe one day I'll be back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For everyone else:
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the nice comments on my shots! It's been a great ride!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff










Say it ain't so Big Dog! Honestly, I'm sure you deserve a break and really should "unplug" for a while and enjoy that awesome stack with your family and friends. In my mind your setup will always be the benchmark for overall quality and "knock em dead" performance. You and a few others here have gone above and beyond the call of duty to prove that CRT is still king and still kicks ass in so many ways. I know you wont be able to stay gone long though!










Take care dude.


----------



## Blasst

Cliff,


You sound like you need a break......


There is more to life than HD and AVS, or so my wife tells me.










But on a sincere note, you've done a hell of a lot of work here and its appreciated.


I'm sure many of us here have had to get control of how much time this hobby takes up of our lives. I've had to cut back myself. Of course with the "war" being over, things have mellowed out here, which has made it easier to not check in so many times per day.


Someone will always be tending the store........


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, you have set the bar so high on screenshots here, that this thread is the reference I call attention to out there whenever I can, not only on this site but on others as well. Some of the shots sent up by not only you but by Clarence, and CaspianM, and the 2 Mikes, too many for me to think of here - they have knocked my socks off on MANY occasions, and stay firmly fixed in my mind whenever I talk about CRT out there.


The fact that you sit your width is still the benchmark for properly set up CRT, IMHO. I do what I can with my CRT unit, but being a consumer regular grade Mit, I still can't even approach doing that, even tho mine looks absolutely great on all counts. Sitting your width is unheard of out there, and more people need to realize that doing something like that is actually even POSSIBLE. I didn't, till I saw yours and experienced that firsthand. And with Ken's help and how well you've taken his lead in keeping it trimmed up nice and tight all the time, that fact that you sit your width and do so every day, casually and routinely, just can't be bellowed out loud enough!


The invitation you exended to come experience it when you found out I was going to be nearby last year also remains the high point of my calibration tours last year. I have been wanting to come over again whenever feasible, to see it all over again! And hear it of course, meaning the Diggers scene...











I will still be sending in shots whenever I come upon ones I think are relevant, and I hope others will also chip in pix and keep this thread alive, as the doubt for what CRT is capable of remains out there in many circles, and this has been the bullwark by which whoever wants to see the real truth can come by and be properly blitzed by the quality available here.


You have succeeded in ways that stoke one who really values the opinion of his peers, and I see no way anybody could take you to task for what you've accomplished here. "Got to stop"??? Slap those idiots!


You're king, Cliff (Bob bowing down...). WE know it, even if they don't!













Mr Bob


----------



## wrighthenry

Here are a couple of shots from my highly modded vision one that Terry just set up last week. I didn't change any of my camera settings, just put it on a tripod and took the pictures. I will look into messing with the camera and post some more later.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13808539
> 
> 
> Maybe one day I'll be back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff













OK time is up! Some new screen shots from your new set up.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13834399
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK time is up! Some new screen shots from your new set up.



Let me see what I can muster up this weekend.










Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234

Cliff,

You keep right on posting shots whenever you feel like it. The hell with others. This is kinda like "my car faster than yours". So what? Who gives a rats ass in the end. We all have things that we feel are better than something else.


I'll say this: You and your family's hospitality and willingness to open up your house to anyone and everyone goes above and beyond. The fact that your HT rocks is icing on the cake IMHO. The amount of time and energy that has been spent on your HT reflects your desire to "be the best you can be". You take your HT stuff seriously, and it shows. I see no problem with that.


wallace


----------



## CaspianM

This is a fun thread. Post some nice screen shots! Everyone has been doing it.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> At any rate, this is why I need a break. When I have to run back and forth from my theater to my computer to see if my system is doing well against such a high end projector or not, there is an issue with me and my hobby and it needs to be addressed, hence, I need to do something else for a while.



Cliff I understand as this can become an obsession(hence my signature). i also need to stop worrying if what I have is good enough for the other guy...its good enough for me and thats all that counts.n I too need a break but you know how that goes. lol I keep saying i will take the summer off and do other things but all i think about is adding more mods to my thread over on curts site. But i must say the screen shot threads from here are what got me into crt and your stack was the biggest reason of them all...

I envy you.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/13834962
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> You keep right on posting shots whenever you feel like it. The hell with others. This is kinda like "my car faster than yours". So what? Who gives a rats ass in the end. We all have things that we feel are better than something else.
> 
> 
> I'll say this: You and your family's hospitality and willingness to open up your house to anyone and everyone goes above and beyond. The fact that your HT rocks is icing on the cake IMHO. The amount of time and energy that has been spent on your HT reflects your desire to "be the best you can be". You take your HT stuff seriously, and it shows. I see no problem with that.
> 
> 
> wallace



You have been a blast to get to know kind sir.










We definitely have some memories with all of the guys and gals huh?


I'm so pitiful though cause I sure didn't stay away for very long.










I'm thinking it's time to pump the meet thread up for another get together.










A couple of my favorites:




















Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cliff say the word... But wait until after the 17th I'll be back from Tucson by then.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13835003
> 
> 
> Cliff I understand as this can become an obsession(hence my signature). i also need to stop worrying if what I have is good enough for the other guy...its good enough for me and thats all that counts.n I too need a break but you know how that goes. lol I keep saying i will take the summer off and do other things but all i think about is adding more mods to my thread over on curts site. But i must say the screen shot threads from here are what got me into crt and your stack was the biggest reason of them all...
> 
> I envy you.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Athanasios dude thanks man. Really. It's been a blast getting to know you as well big dog!



















Cliff


----------



## nashou66

I need to get that movie dude!!!!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Thanks go to Gino for the above shots.










GINO YOU ROCK!



























































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13835234
> 
> 
> Cliff say the word... But wait until after the 17th I'll be back from Tucson by then.



I need to get me one of those Cannon's. Thats a nice camera.










I'm gonna let everyone else work out the date.










I am thinking June/July sometime though.


Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13835234
> 
> 
> Cliff say the word... But wait until after the 17th I'll be back from Tucson by then.



Well, from the amount of travel you do, I guess that gives us from the 17th til the 18th to have a meet?










Dude, get home and have a cold beer!


wallace


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yeah it's amazing how much I've been on the road. Life has a way of passing you by. We all need to remember to stop and sell the BBQ







.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13835664
> 
> 
> Yeah it's amazing how much I've been on the road. Life has a way of passing you by. We all need to remember to stop and sell the BBQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Um, no, in all of our case, it would be EAT THE BBQ.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Smell, Eat... Eat would be good... yes


----------



## overclkr

A few practice shots.


Star Trek 1080P HD DVD





























Cliff


----------



## MikeEby

Excellent Cliff!...I have been wanting to pick that up box set.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13840500
> 
> 
> Excellent Cliff!...I have been wanting to pick that up box set.
> 
> 
> Mike



How do these look Mike?


Grand Prix 1080P HD DVD















































Cliff


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13840624
> 
> 
> How do these look Mike?
> 
> 
> Grand Prix 1080P HD DVD
> 
> Yours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Mine











Wow you can see how much more punch the stack has. Way more detail in her hair and the back wall, yours is much sharper too. I did just add a gamma boost it would be interesting to see if it helped much. That disk is amazing.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13840949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you can see how much more punch the stack has. Way more detail in her hair and the back wall, yours is much sharper too. I did just add a gamma boost it would be interesting to see if it helped much. That disk is amazing.
> 
> 
> Mike



This is my favorite.











Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

Both shots look great regardless some differences. Good job!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13846027
> 
> 
> Both shots look great regardless some differences. Good job!



Talk to me. What do you see different?










The reds are definitely different for sure.


Cliff


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13835664
> 
> 
> Yeah it's amazing how much I've been on the road. Life has a way of passing you by. We all need to remember to stop and sell the BBQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13835678
> 
> 
> Um, no, in all of our case, it would be EAT THE BBQ.





































































Time to party?


wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/13846461
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to party?
> 
> 
> wallace



Fo Sho!!!!


Now we just need to pick a date.










Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13846308
> 
> 
> Talk to me. What do you see different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reds are definitely different for sure.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Cliff thanks for asking but I am not really that good in this.

At any rate I think these shots are from two dcams so whatever the differences are could be contributed by the dcams and the pj's both.


Mike's have different gamma than yours and that has contributed to slight saturation in his shot but stack seems sharper with slightly more ringing for wharever the reasons. Obviously the shot from stack looks better with berrer shadow, dynamic range and detail overall. Are you done with the calibration?


----------



## kschmit2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13840949
> 
> 
> Mine
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you can see how much more punch the stack has. Way more detail in her hair and the back wall, yours is much sharper too. I did just add a gamma boost it would be interesting to see if it helped much. That disk is amazing.
> 
> 
> Mike



Mike, yours simply has crushed blacks, check for Video vs. PC Levels


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/13848376
> 
> 
> Cliff thanks for asking but I am not really that good in this.
> 
> At any rate I think these shots are from two dcams so whatever the differences are could be contributed by the dcams and the pj's both.
> 
> 
> Mike's have different gamma than yours and that has contributed to slight saturation in his shot but stack seems sharper with slightly more ringing for wharever the reasons. Obviously the shot from stack looks better with berrer shadow, dynamic range and detail overall. Are you done with the calibration?



No the calibration is not done and probably wont be for a couple of weeks. I'll be curious to take that same shot after Ken is done because I know for sure that my colors are off.


Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13850247
> 
> 
> 
> The reds are definitely different for sure.
> 
> 
> No the calibration is not done and probably wont be for a couple of weeks. I'll be curious to take that same shot after Ken is done because I know for sure that my colors are off.
> 
> 
> Cliff




Color decoding, not grayscale. Does Ken address color decoding?



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13850395
> 
> 
> Color decoding, not grayscale. Does Ken address color decoding?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



No Bob, I mean greyscale. Obviously, if my greyscale is off so would my colors be as well.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13850802
> 
> 
> No Bob, I mean greyscale. Obviously, if my greyscale is off so would my colors be as well.




Yeah, but the inverse of that is NOT necessarily true! Your grayscale on 2 different displays could be identical, yet the reds would still be different, if the color decoding is different. This won't be at the pj, which is RGB, but it could happen before that, maybe at the scaler -


If the grayscale has not been aligned yet, then of course everything is still unknown -



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/13851006
> 
> 
> Yeah, but the inverse of that is NOT necessarily true! Your grayscale on 2 different displays could be identical, yet the reds would still be different, if the color decoding is different. This won't be at the pj, which is RGB, but it could happen before that, maybe at the scaler -
> 
> 
> If the grayscale has not been aligned yet, then of course everything is still unknown -
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yep, I was discussing this with Ken today. For example, the Reds on the G90 actually go way beyond the 709 spec. The green stock element on the G90 does not measure properly either. I'll tell ya though, I'll be dammed cause it sure looks awesome!!!










If I wanted "perfect" colors I could get them but I really don't see the need to spend the money it would take to do it. I'm perfectly happy with what I have now.










Cliff


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/13850100
> 
> 
> Mike, yours simply has crushed blacks, check for Video vs. PC Levels



Yes, that was before I added the gamma box. It is much better now, but now have to be careful not to crush whites as you noticed in the gamma thread on Curt's site.


To be honest it may just be the exposure on the camera, I was/am still learning how to use the camera to its full potential, and have not mastered it yet.



Mike


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13852357
> 
> 
> Yep, I was discussing this with Ken today. For example, the Reds on the G90 actually go way beyond the 709 spec. The green stock element on the G90 does not measure properly either. I'll tell ya though, I'll be dammed cause it sure looks awesome!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I wanted "perfect" colors I could get them but I really don't see the need to spend the money it would take to do it. I'm perfectly happy with what I have now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



I hear that! Hey, if the only time stuff like this comes up is when 2 displays are being compared, who needs to know which is absolutely correct, compared to the industry standard? Is that really what it's all about? You're not going to see noticeable differences when changes like that are done, when you're simply watching your source material. It's really splitting hairs.











I'm with you. Your sys rocks. Period. Let it be -


----------



## mp20748

For the first time I have a HD-DVD player (not using the Xbox 360 analog out) connected to the HDMI port on my Moome card.


I'm also using a new set of boards in my 8500.


When I get the time I'll dial everything in, but for now, these are just a few quickies..


----------



## overclkr

Me like.










Nice to have you back.



















Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

In another week or so, I'll be back with more screnshots. And hopefully then, I'll also post some shots from the modified G90.


I have to first move some things around in the shop. And it seems every time I'm ready to do that, there's no one around to help lift those heavy beast.


But for sure, I'll be back at the camera soon with more shots.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13853549
> 
> 
> Me like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to have you back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



So do I. Very nice.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13852493
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest it may just be the exposure on the camera, I was/am still learning how to use the camera to its full potential, and have not mastered it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Agree! Screenshot can be deceiving. No one puts up a screenshot with crushed black unless the camera defaults to lower black which I think is common.


----------



## deanzsyclone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13840949
> 
> 
> Mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you can see how much more punch the stack has. Way more detail in her hair and the back wall, yours is much sharper too. I did just add a gamma boost it would be interesting to see if it helped much. That disk is amazing.
> 
> 
> Mike




Maybe your cammera just isn't capturing the image as well? I have this same problem, I look at the pic I took and parts in the photo are darker than what I see on screen. How does that wall look to you in real life??


----------



## Delicious2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/13853593
> 
> 
> In another week or so, I'll be back with more screnshots. And hopefully then, I'll also post some shots from the modified G90...



Modified G90! WooHoo! Can't wait!



Mark H


----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Owen

Thought I would drop these in here as it seems I am doing a reasonably good job of capturing my 70” Sony SXRD RPTV.

If they stand comparison to some of the fine shots posted in this thread already I must be.


----------



## Mr Bob

Owen -


Nice! And fixed pixel, so the crispness is guaranteed as long as the camera - and photographer, of course - are good.











Here's some CRT again, where it has to be hands-on worked at, a bit more.


Remember this guy from Saturday Night Live many years ago, way back when he did readings there, with almost this exact same expression on his face?


The ee on the edge of his face is probably from the compression of Dish sat, there's always a lot less of that on HD disc -


I really like the errant stray hair off his left eye, and how his hair has turned out, and the individual hairs in his eyebrows -


Of course Milla's stray hairs show too, on yours -



Mr Bob








[/url]


----------



## nashou66

I have been away from adding some shots so here a few i got tonight. I bumped up the exposure time to 8 seconds but still am not capturing the low level detail I am actually seeing in the image,Also the camera was not centered properly







...... I also did my first calibration using HFCR and the Eye One display2/LT And Kal's Guide * GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES *


Previews NT:BOS





























Preview of new Narnia











Athanasios


----------



## nashou66



























*I really like this one*











Athanasios


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Owen* /forum/post/13871452
> 
> 
> Thought I would drop these in here as it seems I am dong a reasonably good job of capturing my 70 Sony SXRD RPTV.
> 
> If they stand comparison to some of the fine shots posted in this thread already I must be. :



G'day Owen, nice to have you in here. Very impressive shots.


One day I'll get around to posting something here but can't stop tweaking etc...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13878437
> 
> 
> *I really like this one*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Lookin' good Athanasios!


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13878527
> 
> 
> G'day Owen, nice to have you in here. Very impressive shots.
> 
> 
> One day I'll get around to posting something here but can't stop tweaking etc...



Yes, very nice shots, as well as Bob's.


Big dog, you need to post some shots of that bad ass Pioneer you have.










Damn I really like that bad boy.


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13878405
> 
> 
> I have been away from adding some shots so here a few i got tonight. I bumped up the exposure time to 8 seconds but still am not capturing the low level detail I am actually seeing in the image,Also the camera was not centered properly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...... I also did my first calibration using HFCR and the Eye One display2/LT And Kal's Guide * GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES *
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Very nice! It looks like the greyscale calibration helped a good bit. These look much better than your last shots if I recall correctly. Good job!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

How is the PQ on the BD version of Chronicles of Narnia, compared the the DVD? The DVD was pretty ugly IMO.


----------



## MikeEby

Nice shot Athanasios, Bob and Mr. Parker!


Mike


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13878745
> 
> 
> How is the PQ on the BD version of Chronicles of Narnia, compared
> 
> the the DVD? The DVD was pretty ugly IMO.



Much better as i have both as well. The subtle colors are what really stand out, all the pastels

look nice and the contrast of them against the brighter colors is just amazing. Image quality

is up there with the best transfers.



> Quote:
> Very nice! It looks like the greyscale calibration helped a good bit.
> 
> These look much better than your last shots if I recall correctly. Good job!



Thanks Dropzone, I always knew calibration is parmount to a great image after Craig Rounds

did my 8000. now that i did it myself although not perfect i can attest to the validity of

having a pro set up a CRT front projector if you want the best out of it.


Some more:
























































Thanks guys for your kind words.


Athanasios


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cool I'll have to snag a copy then. Just wish the Panasonic BD50 would make it to market some time soon. Getting tired of waiting.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

OK, now I have another screen shot.











Art


----------



## dropzone7

Oh no! Art's been to the "gun show"!










Please don't hurt me!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13902025
> 
> 
> OK, now I have another screen shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Art, look at the difference from the shot taken at an angle vs. these:


Wolfgang's Barco:











G90 Stack:











Sim 2 HT5000:












You can see what I was talking about now in regards to the similarity when I saw that shot on your Sim. Your shot is a little over exposed but I'm sure you get the point.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

The same HT5000 shot. Exposure dropped 2 clicks:











Cliff


----------



## MikeEby

It’s a big secret Wolfgang is only 30” tall!











Mike


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Yes I see it. Now I get why you were laughing when you paused it on that frame.










I had a great time the other night thanks for coming over. Wow, those SACD tracks !!!!!!


Look foward to us getting together soon at your place.










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13903366
> 
> 
> Yes I see it. Now I get why you were laughing when you paused it on that frame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a great time the other night thanks for coming over. Wow, those SACD tracks !!!!!!
> 
> 
> Look foward to us getting together soon at your place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Me too! Never a dull moment when we get together.

















Cliffy


----------



## deanzsyclone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13902866
> 
> 
> The same HT5000 shot. Exposure dropped 2 clicks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



That's much better. This appears to me to be the best shot of this screen capture between them all. I can see the grey color of his suit jacket the best in this one. What camera did you use and at what settings may I ask??


Nice capture.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deanzsyclone* /forum/post/13903991
> 
> 
> That's much better. This appears to me to be the best shot of this screen capture between them all. I can see the grey color of his suit jacket the best in this one. What camera did you use and at what settings may I ask??
> 
> 
> Nice capture.



Does this mean I get to take my crown back?????










You can right click on the picture, save as, go to the file properties and all info about the camera and the shot is in there.


Thanks for the compliment.










Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

All hail Cliff keeper of the light!!!, may his tubes never dim...


----------



## deanzsyclone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13904039
> 
> 
> Does this mean I get to take my crown back?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can right click on the picture, save as, go to the file properties and all info about the camera and the shot is in there.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the compliment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



I'm hardly the deciding vote. But you got mine either way. Wonder how that shot compares to the g90 version, I'll go back and see if you posted a pic with that same scene.


Saved the pic, as "save as" and went to properties, no info was to be found.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deanzsyclone* /forum/post/13904615
> 
> 
> I'm hardly the deciding vote. But you got mine either way. Wonder how that shot compares to the g90 version, I'll go back and see if you posted a pic with that same scene.
> 
> 
> Saved the pic, as "save as" and went to properties, no info was to be found.



Here ya go.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13902025
> 
> 
> OK, now I have another screen shot.



Hehe, I'll have to try the same pose, er, I mean screen shot too







(If I ever get back up and running







)


----------



## overclkr

Hello my friend. :^)


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13905336
> 
> 
> Hello my friend. :^)



So you hitting the gym yet?


I've just found new inspiration and have set a reasonable goal for myself, feels good again to enjoy working out rather than despising it.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13905412
> 
> 
> So you hitting the gym yet?
> 
> 
> I've just found new inspiration and have set a reasonable goal for myself, feels good again to enjoy working out rather than despising it.



Hell no. I'm such a lazy ass.










You however make me sick. Your the "new and improved" Bruce Lee AKA Original Gino that will roxer your boxers!










Ok, time to drop another bomb.



















Cliffy


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13789340
> 
> 
> This one is my absolute favorite.
> 
> 
> Just awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Most impressive what, wait the size let me take guess +- 2 feet. Is it around 15 feet in length and 8 to 9 feet in height, if so very impressive?


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/13905496
> 
> 
> Most impressive what, wait the size let me take guess +- 2 feet. Is it around 15 feet in length and 8 to 9 feet in height, if so very impressive?



I'd guess 8-9ft high too, so being a scope screen, that would make it closer to 21ft wide.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Wolfgang's screen is 7m which is just under 23' wide.


Art


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Twenty Three Feet? What is the light reading on that screen? Now that's big.


Anyone have a link to Wolf's theater?


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13915087
> 
> 
> Twenty Three Feet? What is the light reading on that screen? Now that's big.



I think he said 41fL but he could go to 60 ! Remember this is an 18,000 lumen projector.


Art


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13915087
> 
> 
> Twenty Three Feet? What is the light reading on that screen? Now that's big.
> 
> 
> Anyone have a link to Wolf's theater?



There are a few pictures in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1025179 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13915203
> 
> 
> I think he said 41fL but he could go to 60 ! Remember this is an 18,000 lumen projector.
> 
> 
> Art



Here is a shot of changing the bulb.


----------



## overclkr

That is just sick.










Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby

My personal feeling is a screen that size in a home theater is over the top, perhaps he is compensating?







But if he has the money, what the hell! I don't NEED a car with a top speed of 180 MPH yet I still own one.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13919928
> 
> 
> My personal feeling is a screen that size in a home theater is over the top, perhaps he is compensating?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if he has the money, what the hell! I don't NEED a car with a top speed of 180 MPH yet I still own one.
> 
> 
> Mike



I wouldn't mind having it. It would have to be 4K Rez though.










Oh, and 100,000 to one contrast.










Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby

2001: A Space Odyssey


NEC XG 1351, [email protected] Now with Box 1021 Gamma Boost
















































Mike


----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66

Looks nice Mikey!! You Love your new gamma box dont you !










Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13920517
> 
> 
> Looks nice Mikey!! You Love your new gamma box dont you !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Big time improvement for $120 bucks.










Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13920543
> 
> 
> Big time improvement for $120 bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike













Never Underestimate the power of gamma for CRT.


Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13920585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never Underestimate the power of gamma for CRT.
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Yep,


Without the Box 1021 Gamma boost:










With the Box 1021 Gamma boost:










Mike


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13919928
> 
> 
> My personal feeling is a screen that size in a home theater is over the top, perhaps he is compensating?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if he has the money, what the hell! I don't NEED a car with a top speed of 180 MPH yet I still own one.
> 
> 
> Mike



In all seriousness though, Wolfgang is one of the nicest most unbiased guys on the forum. Just compare his posts to the fecal remnants spewed by cineramax with the same projector.


I'm compansating myself. I wanted to be a professional basketball player.Being just over 30" tall and white made that difficult.


Art


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13922006
> 
> 
> In all seriousness though, Wolfgang is one of the nicest most unbiased guys on the forum. Just compare his posts to the fecal remnants spewed by cineramax with the same projector.
> 
> 
> Art



I agree 100% Wolfgang is very humble guy you can just tell it by his posts.


Not really to comparable to the 70MM fecal remnants from cineramax.

Let's get Real!


I did watch a few videos on YouTube that Cineramax posted, and I have to admit he actually sounds much nicer then some of his posts so I will even cut some him some slack. I really honestly think he believes what he says, albeit I don't agree, I'll take FR CR over ANSI any day, or let's just say I have yet to be convinced.










Regardless all the back and forth banter can be very informative to laymen like me.


Mike


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13920782
> 
> 
> Yep,
> 
> 
> Without the Box 1021 Gamma boost:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the Box 1021 Gamma boost:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike




Very nice Mike! I knew you would like the difference that gamma makes. I see you also gave 2001 another chance! Or are you just using it for screen shots?










If I could just get my greyscale down I might be able to show my face here again sometime.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13920502
> 
> 
> 2001: A Space Odyssey
> 
> 
> NEC XG 1351, [email protected] Now with Box 1021 Gamma Boost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Very Impressive! I love CRT!!!


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/13924688
> 
> 
> Very nice Mike! I knew you would like the difference that gamma makes. I see you also gave 2001 another chance! Or are you just using it for screen shots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I could just get my greyscale down I might be able to show my face here again sometime.



Yes I did give 2001 another chance, the website you pointed me at made a big difference in understanding what the hell was going on, especially the beginning concerning the apes and the Monolith. It makes more sense and made the movie more enjoyable to watch.


Thanks!

Mike


----------



## nashou66

Whats the link Mike? can you post it?

I love the movie ,Just want to see what that site is all about

Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13925075
> 
> 
> Whats the link Mike? can you post it?
> 
> I love the movie ,Just want to see what that site is all about
> 
> Athanasios



In case Mike has lost the link and because I happen to have it handy...here it is

http://www.kubrick2001.com/ 


Just one of many takes on the movie. Has been and will always be one of my favorites.


----------



## mp20748

I was testing some boards in my lowly 8500 yesterday, but this time I was running things at 720P. I was so impressed with the detail that I had to post a few shots here.


I'll be back this weekend with many more at 1080P.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13922372
> 
> 
> I agree 100% Wolfgang is very humble guy you can just tell it by his posts.
> 
> 
> Not really to comparable to the 70MM “fecal remnants” from cineramax.
> 
> Let's get Real!
> 
> 
> I did watch a few videos on YouTube that Cineramax posted, and I have to admit he actually sounds much nicer then some of his posts so I will even cut some him some slack. I really honestly think he believes what he says, albeit I don’t agree, I’ll take FR CR over ANSI any day, or let’s just say I have yet to be convinced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless all the back and forth banter can be very informative to laymen like me.
> 
> 
> Mike



Yes, Wolfgang rocks Fo Sho.


As far as Peter, I'd be willing to give him a second chance if I could see the setup in person.










Here is a few 2001 shots from me.














































Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13928047
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a few 2001 shots from me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I like this one...It looks almost 3D.


It's funny how Kubrick got the aspect ratio change backwards, all of his displays got square instead of widescreen, he really did nailed the flat panel concept though.


Mike


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13922006
> 
> 
> In all seriousness though, Wolfgang is one of the nicest most unbiased guys on the forum. Just compare his posts to the fecal remnants spewed by cineramax with the same projector.
> 
> 
> I'm compansating myself. I wanted to be a professional basketball player.Being just over 30" tall and white made that difficult.
> 
> 
> Art



Yeah but “white men can’t jump”







thou I bet Wesley, is in the yard showing the guys a few hoops or two. Those 2001: a space Odyssey images look so hyper not sure if I was looking at 70mm?


Doesn’t anyone have 70mm frame cell that can be put under the scope so to speak and side by side compression with these miraculous digital video images?











The moon base looks a bit like moon base alpha from Space 1999.












21 feet that’s almost LOL cinema size for small cinema. LOL 21 feet wow.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13913046
> 
> 
> I'd guess 8-9ft high too, so being a scope screen, that would make it closer to 21ft wide.



21 feet that’s almost LOL cinema size for small cinema. LOL 21 feet wow.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13914954
> 
> 
> Wolfgang's screen is 7m which is just under 23' wide.
> 
> 
> Art





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13915599
> 
> 
> There are a few pictures in this thread.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1025179
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of changing the bulb.



Well there’s a name I recognize from my cinema days. Osram! LOL yeah handle those buggers with extreme care if that blew up in your face your need white walking cane for the rest of your life.

*Please Note* the safety gear guys because that’s the same deal with projectionists, never ever open the lamp house otherwise the change in temperature will cause an explosion due to the extreme heat that they run at. You’ll have pieces of glass splinters coming at you at a fast speed and it will hurt, don’t really want to know, as I have never encountered an issue in booth, only I was cautioned and that kinder made my skin crawl, that it can end up blinding you, it looks like fireman’s outfit kinder cool.


I do remember now, now that its come back to me, there was an explosion at the cinema, and now that I remember seeing the mess it left inside the lamp house and the use of vacuum cleaner was used to suck out all the glass, what frigging mess a few odds and bits on the booth floor but not as half as much that was inside. UCI 10 screen Tower Park, Poole(1989)


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13878405
> 
> 
> I have been away from adding some shots so here a few i got tonight. I bumped up the exposure time to 8 seconds but still am not capturing the low level detail I am actually seeing in the image,Also the camera was not centered properly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...... I also did my first calibration using HFCR and the Eye One display2/LT And Kal's Guide * GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES *
> 
> 
> Previews NT:BOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preview of new Narnia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios




Been to London a few times and there are so many tubes I can't figure what part, thou there is lion, now could that be clue in the film, isn't out yet on region 2 DVD. Wonderful screen capture, what size screen is that in the room?


----------



## nashou66

Thanks JBL,

It's a 12 foot screen. What really improved from my previous shots was doing the greyscale. That definitely improved depth and low level detail.


Athanasios


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/13929781
> 
> 
> Thanks JBL,
> 
> It's a 12 foot screen. What really improved from my previous shots was doing the greyscale. That definitely improved depth and low level detail.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I think 12 feet is HUGE leap over what I’m using which is only 25” CRT Toshiba that I’m proud to say I saved from the rain as it was dumped outside in an alleyway last year. And all that was wrong with as far as I can see was nothing major to worry about,


Even still 12 feet is leap over what is now common with plasma and LCD or even the bulky what most used to adore, was it Pioneer 50” and so on up rear CRT projecting screen monitors.


I’m looking and hoping, [knock on wood] I can save few hundred pounds up for brand new in the box DLP, yes I know this CRT and I’m not blind to knowing the difference, but to get an image in the room that is transparent with the matching LCR fronts is leap away from having to view a film with clutter in the field of view, at the front, I don’t particular like to see the sub the loudspeakers, just a large image with crystal clear sound coming from behind it.


Oh, video projectors cost more to run that I know, but take up less space due to where its fitted or its size as I’ve noticed some of the CRT are the size of suitcases LOL bolted to the ceiling, a TV monitor is too much to move around and you can never get the LCR matching fronts to be where they should be with a HUGE bulk standing in the middle “impossible” and that is one word I don’t like, but is true.


Any ideas on what the rough screen width will be at the back of the room, which is 15 feet to the front minus the difference of say 21” that is away from the front wall to where if possible will be screen a, custom cheap DIY screen?


I would have to be over 5 feet at least as this is small room, with a narrow length that is around 8 feet 9”.


Cheers.


----------



## overclkr

A nice little repost.























































































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Another repost:

































































































Cliffy


----------



## JBLsound4645

Not bad not to bad at all thou I can see a little (convergence) on the edge of the glasses on the right-hand-side a little alignment is all it needs if I'm not too mistaken.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/13935800
> 
> 
> Not bad not to bad at all thou I can see a little (convergence) on the edge of the glasses on the right-hand-side a little alignment is all it needs if I’m not too mistaken.



Two things. First of all, my lens sucks on my camera, trust me, it's not like that in person.










Second of all, these pics were taken at the same time so I'm a bit puzzled. I'll have to revisit that frame.











Cliff


----------



## overclkr

No convergence errors here either.











Matter of fact that is the only shot out of all of them that looks like that.


I'm hitting the wife tonight so cant deal with it now but will address it this weekend.



Cliff


----------



## JBLsound4645

*overclkr*


Unless it had something to do with the way, the digital saw the image, but I doubt that it does look like it on the rim of glasses on the image I pointed out and its fairly common issue not a problematic issue to deal with.


----------



## mp20748

we're now back to full 1080P on my lowly 8500 and Blu Ray..










because we're testing someones boards with these shots, the 8500 is not calibrated, but will be later tonight when I get back to taking more shots.


I'm back!


----------



## overclkr

Lookin' good.










COUGH COUGH..... a certain G90 is um really wanting some screenshots.










Cliffy


----------



## meeleend

Me tooooooooo.........


----------



## Delicious2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13945413
> 
> 
> Lookin' good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COUGH COUGH..... a certain G90 is um really wanting some screenshots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yes, please sir, may we have some MP G90 goodness?


peace,

Mark H


----------



## Mr Bob













This one shows Ken's absolutely perfect geometry, on Cliff's setup. When a circle is a circle, you know you've got it right.












Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Yep, Ken has SKILLZ.










Some more of Ken's skillz:
























































Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yep he sure does have skittles.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13967370
> 
> 
> Yep he sure does have skittles.



I like skittles.


Especially mint flavor.


----------



## Alan Gouger

Looking good as usual Cliff and Mike. Bob yours are kicken to.


Colors look very rich and saturated on CRT yet they remain natural looking. Like an oil painting.


----------



## cinema mad

It appears Ken is A master magician with them G90's, his work with cliffy's stack is just amazzzzzing magic. I wish us lowly Aussies had A clone of Ken to work his magic on the Downunder CRT's







....


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/13969291
> 
> 
> Looking good as usual Cliff and Mike. Bob yours are kicken to.
> 
> 
> Colors look very rich and saturated on CRT yet they remain natural looking. Like an oil painting.




Thanks, Alan. They truly do speak for themselves.


You would be appalled to see what a fellow calibrator says about screenshots on a certain other forum, how little he believes in them...











Nice to be here, among those who DO see!












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/13969389
> 
> 
> It appears Ken is A master magician with them G90's, his work with cliffy's stack is just amazzzzzing magic. I wish us lowly Aussies had A clone of Ken to work his magic on the Downunder CRT's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....



Fly me in. Whatever little-known intricacies I don't know about the G90 series so far, I will pick up from either Ken or William Phelps, who is also a master of them and has promised me a tutorial on my next G90 on the fine points of a certain hidden service menu in them. He has a line of Faroudja projectors named after him - the William Phelps line - which he personally supertweaks before they are sent out. All this in trade for as yet unnamed future technical favors between us -


I'll get yours rockin' just like Cliff's -


Of course Ken has first shot at your displays, wherever they may be, if he wants to go there. He's the one who has set the standard here, with the very first shot on this thread. I bow to his obvious talent and experience, as Cliff's shots keep attesting to. He deserves to be at the head of the class.


But if he's not available, I am.



Would still love to get my hands on Cliff's 9" gun 65" Mit, the one in his living room -












Mr Bob


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Ken,Ken Ken who the hell is Ken ? Is he like some sort of superstar that doesn't even use his last name anymore ?


Art


----------



## overclkr

Ken who??????


----------



## cinema mad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13969704
> 
> 
> Ken,Ken Ken who the hell is Ken. Is he like some sort of superstar that doesn't even use his last name anymore ?
> 
> 
> Art



Yes that's him







, I think Ken "Whitcomb" was also the guy that worked his magic on that Art bloke's old G90 stack before he replaced them with A 3 chiper DLP,you know the guy with the Awesome home theatre







....


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/13969389
> 
> 
> It appears Ken is A master magician with them G90's, his work with cliffy's stack is just amazzzzzing magic. I wish us lowly Aussies had A clone of Ken to work his magic on the Downunder CRT's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....



I was trying to get Ken here to see what he can do for my blend, but seems he keeps procrastinating. Cliff, would you get on his back and nudge him in the right direction? So if he does come down under, I'm sure we could organise a calibration tour for him if others are interested.


----------



## nashou66

They are trying in europe to get him there too maybe he should start his "world tour" !!

Hes become a rock star of sorts!!!!










Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

yep, this is an AC 8" CRT projector at 1080P /60hz


----------



## mp20748

with a little light in the room


----------



## mp20748

lights out


----------



## damon

I have met some great people via this hobby but I must say that William Phelps is among the top on my list.


I had him work on an LCOS theater for a friend & was most impressed.

He moved on from the CRT world but if I were blending G-90 CRT's on the West Coast he would be call #1. My guess would be that his interest would again be piqued by a digital input CRT blend.


----------



## Gino AUS

Just show him your top setup Mark and I bet it would get William's interest.


----------



## cinema mad

How are you going with your high end blend Gino??....


----------



## damon

To be clear. He never came to Dallas but worked on the JVC PJ & met with the Oppo folks on our behest all from the "Hangar Deck" in Mountain View, CA.


I have met him in person at a few shows in some capacity w Faroudja.


----------



## DVD MAN

I decided to get creative this weekend and set up 1080P @ 60hz on my Sony G-70 here are some screen shots I am using a cheap Canon SD-400 camera the actual picture of the G-70 is much better.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/13988948
> 
> 
> How are you going with your high end blend Gino??....



So long as I don't run into any more problems it will be up and running this weekend. If all goes to plan, there will definitely be a thread up too.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13992138
> 
> 
> So long as I don't run into any more problems it will be up and running this weekend. If all goes to plan, there will definitely be a thread up too.



Feeling better big dog?










Cliffy


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVD MAN* /forum/post/13991908
> 
> 
> I decided to get creative this weekend and set up 1080P @ 60hz on my Sony G-70 here are some screen shots I am using a cheap Canon SD-400 camera the actual picture of the G-70 is much better.



Looking good! How is the BD of Patton?



Mike


----------



## cinema mad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13992138
> 
> 
> So long as I don't run into any more problems it will be up and running this weekend. If all goes to plan, there will definitely be a thread up too.



That is excellent news, I will definitely be looking forward to your thread Gino....


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13992488
> 
> 
> Feeling better big dog?



We'll see soon enough. I've changed the bellows and C-element, so I think the leaky tube should be fixed now. Glycol has been sitting in it for about 100 hours now without sign of problems, so I'm going to put it back in soon along with the replacement HVPS and HDM, so hopefully all will fire up fine.


The time off waiting has given me a chance to play around with the Lumagen Radiance I just picked up so that I can dial in the primaries/secondaries and adjust gamma and greyscale perfectly. It's a nice bit of gear and will complement with VP50Pro and DVX8022 well.







(hehe, think I have the video processor side covered for now







)


----------



## DVD MAN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13992604
> 
> 
> Looking good! How is the BD of Patton?
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Viewing Patton on my Denon 3800 and the G-70.Patton is nothing short of spectacular. It's up there with Grand Prix HD DVD and The Searchers.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVD MAN* /forum/post/13992911
> 
> 
> Viewing Patton on my Denon 3800 and the G-70.Patton is nothing short of spectacular. It’s up there with Grand Prix HD DVD and The Searchers.




It's great to see these older movie re-released in HD. I just watched Blazing Saddles on HD-DVD in respect of one of comedies greats Harvey Korman who passed a few days ago. Here is one of my favorites from The Carol Burnett Show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9T8i...eature=related 


Mike


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/13992772
> 
> 
> We'll see soon enough. I've changed the bellows and C-element, so I think the leaky tube should be fixed now. Glycol has been sitting in it for about 100 hours now without sign of problems, so I'm going to put it back in soon along with the replacement HVPS and HDM, so hopefully all will fire up fine.
> 
> 
> The time off waiting has given me a chance to play around with the Lumagen Radiance I just picked up so that I can dial in the primaries/secondaries and adjust gamma and greyscale perfectly. It's a nice bit of gear and will complement with VP50Pro and DVX8022 well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (hehe, think I have the video processor side covered for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Uh oh, it's getting hot in here.










May you end up with a setup that eclipses your highest expectations.










Sounds like it's going to be time for Ken soon.
























Cliffy


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/13992623
> 
> 
> That is excellent news, I will definitely be looking forward to your thread Gino....



So will I.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/13988565
> 
> 
> I have met some great people via this hobby but I must say that William Phelps is among the top on my list.
> 
> 
> I had him work on an LCOS theater for a friend & was most impressed.
> 
> He moved on from the CRT world but if I were blending G-90 CRT's on the West Coast he would be call #1. My guess would be that his interest would again be piqued by a digital input CRT blend.



Just for the record, I actually chatted with William before I did my G90 stack. He specifically recommended against doing it instead recommended an LCoS projector.


Art


----------



## antorsae

Hey Gino - I am looking forward to seeing your screenshots!


I have made some progress here too. I will post some screenshots when I have some time!


----------



## emdawgz1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/13994787
> 
> 
> Hey Gino - I am looking forward to seeing your screenshots!
> 
> 
> I have made some progress here too. I will post some screenshots when I have some time!



Hey guys, remember to share the goodies w/ those of us who are "elsewhere"


----------



## antorsae

I've just posted this on a separate thread:

--


I ran a little experiment tonight. I've finally set up a very decent blend with my CRT rig (2 x modded, frankenyoked 9500LC Ultra w/ HD10F lenses).


I used my digital projector (Panasonic AE2000) to display a reference grid to align geometry on the Marquees. After some initial testing, I decided to converge the three projectors (the CRT blend and the Panny).


WOW. Here's some pictures!


Windows Desktop on CRT:










Windows Desktop on digital:










Windows Desktop on CRT AND digital:











2001 A Space Odyssey on CRT:










2001 A Space Odyssey on digital:










2001 A Space Odyssey on CRT AND digital:











King Kong on CRT:










King Kong on digital:










King Kong on CRT AND digital:










Ratatouille on CRT:










Ratatouille on digital:










Ratatouille on CRT AND digital:










I made a lot of pictures - however I didn't use the self-timer on the camera and most of them are defocused/blurred. I will take a few more with the timer when time allows!


I haven't measured the ftL I got when stacking the CRT and digital but all I can say OH BOY! This is BRIGHT!!!

--


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14000061
> 
> 
> I've just posted this on a separate thread:
> 
> --
> 
> 
> I ran a little experiment tonight. I've finally set up a very decent blend with my CRT rig (2 x modded, frankenyoked 9500LC Ultra w/ HD10F lenses).
> 
> 
> I used my digital projector (Panasonic AE2000) to display a reference grid to align geometry on the Marquees. After some initial testing, I decided to converge the three projectors (the CRT blend and the Panny).
> 
> 
> WOW. Here's some pictures!
> 
> 
> I haven't measured the ftL I got when stacking the CRT and digital but all I can say OH BOY! This is BRIGHT!!!
> 
> --



How do they look in person? Judging by the screenshots, overall, the digital looks best to me.


----------



## antorsae

The CRT blend is unbeatable for low APL scenes. The CRT plus the stacked digital is super-bright and has really something for high APL scenes.


In summary:


- If I know beforehand that the movie doesn't have any blackouts or low APL scenes, I'd use the CRT blend plus the digital... that would give me the best performance for high APL scenes.


- For everything else... the CRT blend is way better.


I know you can buy very bright projectors that would comfortably light my screen, but their performance in low APL is not there yet. I wish they were. Setting up the blend is a steep, really (unless you have anybody super knowledgeable who can do it for you) - it has taken me about 1 year or so of tweaking and learning it, and I am not completely done yet (I still want to try those CLB mods,







).


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> and I am not completely done yet (I still want to try those CLB mods, ).



Hi Andreas, I just want to make sure its the VIM not the CLM causing the problem. So far running the modded(took 12 22uf caps out) with my un modded VIM its been fine.

I'll need to mod my opther VIM and test it that way first before I sign off on the final modded CLM.


Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

Athanasios - I knew you would read that!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14007143
> 
> 
> Athanasios - I knew you would read that!



LOL I havn't forgotten you buddy, just waiting for the part to make my extender card so it's easier to scope the vim. once i am sure its the vim i'll move forward with doing my mods to the 20035-02p vim then the 03p vim once I am happy with that I'll give the go ahead for using the CLM mods with modded Vims. if it does give issues I'll have to come up with a toned down version for use with highly modded vims. I'll have to try a few things.


Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

BTW, I currently have two modded 02P VIMs in the projectors (Mikrons I think they are called) and two unmodded 03P VIMs... I still haven't decided which ones I'll be using. I really want to do a side by side test of modded 02P vs. unmodded 03P.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14007283
> 
> 
> BTW, I currently have two modded 02P VIMs in the projectors (Mikrons I think they are called) and two unmodded 03P VIMs... I still haven't decided which ones I'll be using. I really want to do a side by side test of modded 02P vs. unmodded 03P.



Yes that be neat to see, I dont think we ever had any screen shots of the two from the same machine for comparison, I kow for sure the lower level details will be better in Mikes modded Vim, that is the one thing I noticed most in My own mods. I still havnt mastered Mikes resolvability of his Vims but thats ok , I am just having lots of fun learning as I go.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14007283
> 
> 
> BTW, I currently have two modded 02P VIMs in the projectors (Mikrons I think they are called) and two unmodded 03P VIMs... I still haven't decided which ones I'll be using. I really want to do a side by side test of modded 02P vs. unmodded 03P.



Glad to see you back in action finally!!!!










Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13993100
> 
> 
> Uh oh, it's getting hot in here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May you end up with a setup that eclipses your highest expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it's going to be time for Ken soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Damnit, replacement hvps is faulty too. Now I need to wait for a second replacement.


----------



## antorsae

Bummer. Those reliable CRT projectors :-(


----------



## Gino AUS

What's a pain are these marquee's which have are known being great due to availability for spare parts, and at present Curt doesn't have any HVPS nor does he know when any are coming. So rather than waiting indefinitely, I'm buying another 8500 Ultra to have as a spare machine (which I'll be converting into a 9500 Ultra







) So much for CRTs being cheap... you don't want to know how much $$ I've put into my CRT hobby!


Now the waiting continues yet again.


----------



## antorsae

I think the 8500 Ultra is a great move.


I got mine (which I converted into one of my 9"s) from GL and a big help from Clarence who helped shipping.


----------



## Gino AUS

Ok, well I've got the 8500 Ultra organised, so that will be shipped out to me next week. Thanks Tim!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14064313
> 
> 
> Ok, well I've got the 8500 Ultra organised, so that will be shipped out to me next week. Thanks Tim!



Glad to hear big dog!!!!!


It won't be long at all now.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Ken did my greyscale before he left for the East Coast Tour so it's time.


Off to the theater. See you guys soon.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Quick preview:


----------



## Zues

Few more plasma screens


----------



## Zues




----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14080913
> 
> 
> Quick preview:



OMG, look at the detail on this one!












Mr Bob


----------



## Clarence

A few CRT screenshots from yesterday...


----------



## Clarence




----------



## dochlywd

Clarence,



What source are using for Blu-Ray?


Doc


----------



## Clarence

those are PS3 -> VP50


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/14084410
> 
> 
> those are PS3 -> VP50



Is that a recent projector I discussed with a friend earlier today???










That VP50 sure does sound familiar.










Cliffy


----------



## Alan Gouger

Clarence your G90 is looking really good. Cliffs caps have that extra pop but yours are not to far behind.


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/14086190
> 
> 
> Clarence your G90 is looking really good. Cliffs caps have that extra pop but yours are not to far behind.



Got 'ya!


What you are actually seeing in Clarence's new screen shots is Don's NEC 6PG Xtra running at 720p72. Pretty smokin', eh?



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## wallace1234

Speechless..










Ken rocks. period.


wallace


----------



## Gary Murrell

I still say IMHO AC units have a pinch more crispness to them vs LC in general, but I wouldn't give up LC benefits for it










-Gary


----------



## D6500Ken

This one is my favorite.




















Ken Whitcomb


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/14087420
> 
> 
> This one is my favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Not only are you lethal at your work but you have good taste. That shot gets me every time.


----------



## NautikaL

Looks like I better get my shots up to show off more of Ken's work







.


And Ken, YHPM.


----------



## jeep1688

Well, not sure if I'll qualify for this. With only a lowly 8500 air coupled Marquee, it against two G90's in a stack...


Anyway, maybe the 9" projectors would be the best challengers, but if it's alright for me to jump in here every now and then with my measly 8" marquee...


Count me in!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeep1688* /forum/post/14090449
> 
> 
> Well, not sure if I'll qualify for this. With only a lowly 8500 air coupled Marquee, it against two G90's in a stack...
> 
> 
> Anyway, maybe the 9" projectors would be the best challengers, but if it's alright for me to jump in here every now and then with my measly 8" marquee...
> 
> 
> Count me in!



Anytime. Feel free!


Cliff


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeep1688* /forum/post/14090449
> 
> 
> Well, not sure if I'll qualify for this. With only a lowly 8500 air coupled Marquee, it against two G90's in a stack...
> 
> 
> Anyway, maybe the 9" projectors would be the best challengers, but if it's alright for me to jump in here every now and then with my measly 8" marquee...
> 
> 
> Count me in!



jeep1688 here are some lowly 8500 AC (hd144 lenses) and a few of my mods, these are on a 12 foot screen , these are originaly posted on page 66 of this thread.





























Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

"Lowly Marquee"...right...mp, you're just having too much fun with having started that phrase...


























Mr Bob


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

nashou66,


Awesome shots there! The gray is phenomenal. I should work on my grey. Maybe, it would be hard since my green has some minor tube burn.


Anyways, I wanted to get a Marquee 8500 also last year but was beyond my budget. What are the advantages will I see on Marquee 8500 over my existing Sony 1272q? Is it sharper?


Thanks.


Pics from htpc about 3 weeks ago. It's been like 3 months ago since I last posted a screenshot here.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/14102690




Your little 1272 looks great as usual! The only thing I would change is maybe add some screen masking at the top and bottom. Either that or back off on your vertical amplitude so that the picture fits your screen. Or just build a bigger screen. What size is it anyway? This is not criticism by any means but I just think it would make your screen pop even more if it were masked.


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Virts, I think your 1272 looks awesome as well, The grey scale benifits also form the Lumagen(11 point gamma) raise the two lowest ire's and left the rest alone.

is the 1272 an 8 incher? All i know is a Marquee as its the only PJ CRT I have owned. It has a great simple video path which always helps out. Plus I have done some mods to mine . I still know it can be better.


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14103159
> 
> 
> Your little 1272 looks great as usual! The only thing I would change is maybe add some screen masking at the top and bottom. Either that or back off on your vertical amplitude so that the picture fits your screen. Or just build a bigger screen. What size is it anyway? This is not criticism by any means but I just think it would make your screen pop even more if it were masked.










It's just a screen that I built using blackout cloth. I bought it from Joanne's Fabric and the one that they're selling only has a maximum of 54". Yes, I should build a bigger screen. I'm missing like 5% on top and bottom. The projected image that you see right now around 10ft wide.


I'm actually making some calculations right now to find out the final dimension that can cover 1.33, 1.78 and 2.35 ARs.


Thanks.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/14103423
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just a screen that I built using blackout cloth. I bought it from Joanne's Fabric and the one that they're selling only has a maximum of 54". Yes, I should build a bigger screen. I'm missing like 5% on top and bottom. The projected image that you see right now around 10ft wide.
> 
> 
> I'm actually making some calculations right now to find out the final dimension that can cover 1.33, 1.78 and 2.35 ARs.
> 
> 
> Thanks.




I was in the same situation back when I had a blackout cloth screen. It's a great material but like you said, you are limited to the 54" bolt width. This is why I switched to a Designer White Laminate screen because I wanted a larger screen but didn't want to buy an expensive manufactured screen. You should look into the laminates, especially since you are doing 10' wide. You can get the material in 5x10 and 5x12. I got a 5x10 sheet and masked it down on both sides as I wanted a 9' wide screen. I think I paid about $80 for mine and love it. It gives you that extra pop that CRT can benefit from, especially when you are pushing it with screen size like we both are.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14103512
> 
> 
> I was in the same situation back when I had a blackout cloth screen. It's a great material but like you said, you are limited to the 54" bolt width. This is why I switched to a Designer White Laminate screen because I wanted a larger screen but didn't want to buy an expensive manufactured screen. You should look into the laminates, especially since you are doing 10' wide. You can get the material in 5x10 and 5x12. I got a 5x10 sheet and masked it down on both sides as I wanted a 9' wide screen. I think I paid about $80 for mine and love it. It gives you that extra pop that CRT can benefit from, especially when you are pushing it with screen size like we both are.



That's a great deal! Menard's sells the 5'x12' at $110 or $125 delivered to my house. Very few people observed hotspotting on the DW365. What do you think about it?


Athanasios, it has 8" tubes. Thanks!


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/14103553
> 
> 
> That's a great deal! Menard's sells the 5'x12' at $110 or $125 delivered to my house. Very few people observed hotspotting on the DW365. What do you think about it?
> 
> 
> Athanasios, it has 8" tubes. Thanks!




Even at $110-$125 it's well worth it for the improvement in picture quality in my opinion. I believe the gain of the material has been reported to be around 1.3 if I remember correctly. When I first started using the screen I noticed a very small amount of hotspotting just slightly below screen center. As I have done more calibration to the projector like the G2 procedure, greyscale adjustment, etc. I have found the effect to be much less noticeable. Even if it were what it was in the beginning I could live with it for the increased pop and perceived brightness gain I am getting. I think the Designer White laminate screen was the second best improvement I have made to my setup. Second only to adding gamma boost with the RTC2200 transcoder.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14103612
> 
> 
> Even at $110-$125 it's well worth it for the improvement in picture quality in my opinion. I believe the gain of the material has been reported to be around 1.3 if I remember correctly. When I first started using the screen I noticed a very small amount of hotspotting just slightly below screen center. As I have done more calibration to the projector like the G2 procedure, greyscale adjustment, etc. I have found the effect to be much less noticeable. Even if it were what it was in the beginning I could live with it for the increased pop and perceived brightness gain I am getting. I think the Designer White laminate screen was the second best improvement I have made to my setup. Second only to adding gamma boost with the RTC2200 transcoder.



I've done the G2 adjustment as well. I remember, I think I got the settings to read at 1.49, 1.5 and 1.5v.










Cool! I'll keep you posted!


----------



## mp20748

More shots from my lowly 8500 / Blu-Ray 1080P / movie: WAR


----------



## dropzone7

Mike, did you turn the contrast back down?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14118526
> 
> 
> Mike, did you turn the contrast back down?



I think you mean Brightness/Black Level. It's hard to see details in the dark areas of those shots.


I think the Contrast is fine, but the Br needs to come up just a bit -



Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Its just the camera I bet, needs longer exposure th catch what he's probably seeing in person.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14122603
> 
> 
> Its just the camera I bet, needs longer exposure th catch what he's probably seeing in person.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Yeah, definitely. Whoever says screenshots are a quick and easy process just hasn't ever done one!



Mr Bob


----------



## David_Web

I think you need to take two shots. One over exposed to show exactly what's going on in the low region and one under exposed to show the high region. You can't fit it all in one shot.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14123941
> 
> 
> Yeah, definitely. Whoever says screenshots are a quick and easy process just hasn't ever done one!
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



I have yet to take one that looks as good as what I see on screen. My latest, more expensive camera actually makes them look worse than my old point and shoot camera. Possibly operator error but with all settings at default and auto I'm not sure how.


----------



## Mr Bob

Notice the colorations of the gleam spots change on this decanter, over the first few seconds of this commercial, then a great fade to white at the end -


All settings were frozen for the rest of the pix once I got the right exposure/shutter speed/ASA sensitivity, manual focusing etc. for the first one, but it took some doing to get there -


Those vivid blues you see here would not be possible - at least not while preserving the fleshtones as accurate - in a red pushed color decoding situation. Fortunately for you ceiling pj guys, red push is usually only on CRT RPTV tech, not front pj tech.


Obviously my cam is a bit too close for comfort, resulting in fleshtone hotspotting, but that's a camera thing and doesn't appear that way to the viewer. I can't really get my cam too much farther back without using a mirror and getting things appearing backwards, or shooting thru my living room window...












Mr Bob








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]









[/url]









[/url]









[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14124102
> 
> 
> I have yet to take one that looks as good as what I see on screen. My latest, more expensive camera actually makes them look worse than my old point and shoot camera. Possibly operator error but with all settings at default and auto I'm not sure how.



Default and auto was not working for me at all. My eyes see a big screen completely differently from how my cam's sensor sees it, apparently. I was always getting overexposed shots, with focus very compromised by being bloomed and lots of white crush. And auto focus only approximate, which my new camera remedied by being manually focusable.


This is esp. true if it's a RPTV type, with the image floating in the middle of a fresnel/lenticular sandwich, sent to it from way behind it. Somehow that confuses the auto focusing in the cam itself.


I don't change any colorations settings, I leave those alone so I guess they wind up at default, but for shutter speed, exposure and focusing, I definitely have to do all of those manually for each type of pic I take.


Once I got it worked out, for the type of pix in that commercial above, all settings stayed the same for all of the pix I took of it. But that is not always the case for an entire movie or prime time show.



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob

Y'know, looking in her eyes, they must have been using very low lighting for that shoot. Her irises are really wide, which is very obvious in the last shot of the fade to white.


If they were using strong lighting, her irises woulda been really stopped down and a lot smaller in their openings.


Perhaps that's why the colorations appeared so saturated in this set of shots, as my display's color settings were unchanged from normal on these, yet she appears a bit more saturated in her colorations than I normally see the fleshtones being, on my display -



Mr Bob


----------



## andrewfee

I've just been browsing this topic for a while, as I don't have a CRT projector (or the right room for one







) but if you're having trouble taking pictures, you might want to check out the small guide I wrote a while back for some tips:

http://SR-388.net/ 


I never did get around to finishing it, and though it says it's for flat panels, it should be useful for any display really. Setting a custom white balance is critical for getting good photos of any display with the majority of cameras. Some are better than others at guessing, but it often varies shot-to-shot.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14118526
> 
> 
> Mike, did you turn the contrast back down?



The shots are from my un-calibrated 8500. It's that way because I took the images using boards that I'm testing. So yes, the contrast, is most likely not where it should be.


My focus in those shots is the backgrounds and finer details in the backgrounds. I was hoping to show how well we're doing bringing out all the clarity in the image at a true 1080P resolution.


I'll get back to this later sometimes this coming week when I'm able to dial things in better on the projector. the camera and setup may be off, but the image detail in person is amazing for that resolution. And I'm using an 02 VIM for this.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mark_A_W

Mike, these last batches of screenshots have the black crushed completely and they don't have any detail at all - at least on my monitor. They look like a bad DVD.

Sorry.


Now...Mike, get back to work on those NEC mods!!


But honestly, I don't know why you guys bother, the screenshots tell more about the camera than the projector....


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/14162813
> 
> 
> But honestly, I don't know why you guys bother, the screenshots tell more about the camera than the projector....



Mark,


This is a "hobby" and Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines a hobby as:


"an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation: his hobbies include stamp-collecting and taking screen shots from CRT projectors"

_I made the last part up!_











Mike


----------



## Mr Bob

Lots of ee at William Holden's head, suspect sat compression. Don't think it would be there on HD DVD version, if I had it (don't...)








[/url]


Such an exciting meeting...








[/url]


Reporting for duty








[/url]


Could you use this knife if it came to that, son?







[/url]


Good ole' William Holden, in his prime








[/url]


"Not enough time for a practice jump before the mission. The consensus is that Major Shears should make the jump without training, and simply hope for the best."


Holden (Major Shears): "With or without a parachute?"









[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Gary Murrell

Panny BD30 HD-SDI screenshots with VP50pro:



































































































-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary* /forum/post/0



Whaaaa, Whaaaaa, I want my LG and Lumagen to have HD SDI too!!!!! Whaaaa!!!!!































Athanasios


----------



## g-man5.1

Awesome screenshots Gary. Incredible!!


----------



## Gary Murrell

thanks guys


these are the shots I posted over at Curt forums where I was *trying* to discuss HD-SDI before the entire forum decided to hit me at once










I look to be doing more soon










-Gary


----------



## nashou66

Gary keep posting pics there who cares what they say, I also like the infighting between the CRT people, being Greek it goes back to how it was in the ancient days of Greek city states. Always fighting with each other when in reality if they got together they could have accomplished anything...Id still love my LG to get that mod, Id love to get JVB to consider it.


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14238512
> 
> 
> thanks guys
> 
> 
> these are the shots I posted over at Curt forums where I was *trying* to discuss HD-SDI before the entire forum decided to hit me at once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I look to be doing more soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Wow is all I can say! Keep them coming. I mean it.


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14239320
> 
> 
> Gary keep posting pics there who cares what they say, I also like the infighting between the CRT people, being Greek it goes back to how it was in the ancient days of Greek city states. Always fighting with each other when in reality if they got together they could have accomplished anything...Id still love my LG to get that mod, Id love to get JVB to consider it.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



thanks Athan


I will work hard on your last statement about the LG

















-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14239543
> 
> 
> Wow is all I can say! Keep them coming. I mean it.



thanks, will do


-Gary


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14234347
> 
> 
> Panny BD30 HD-SDI screenshots with VP50pro:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary












HTPC


















I think they are one frame off...The silver car is below Leelow and in your.


Mike


----------



## Gary Murrell

very nice!


-Gary


----------



## crtforme

Thats a really bad shot of such a nice ass.

However the the image looks great.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/14239748
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HTPC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are one frame off...The silver car is below Leelow and in your.
> 
> 
> Mike



Mike, is that a screengrab or a pic? I'm assuming screengrab.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14238512
> 
> 
> thanks guys
> 
> 
> these are the shots I posted over at Curt forums where I was *trying* to discuss HD-SDI before the entire forum decided to hit me at once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I look to be doing more soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Can you post the link to that thread? I'm really interested in reading why anyone would be opposed to HD SDI? Is it that people believe HDMI is good enough?


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14241273
> 
> 
> Can you post the link to that thread? I'm really interested in reading why anyone would be opposed to HD SDI? Is it that people believe HDMI is good enough?



not really people opposed to HD-SDI (actually some are over there and believe HDMI is good enough)


I was being accused of advertising by posting my thoughts on HD-SDI and these images, simple as that


whatever though, I am tired of it, I just can't get along over there at all, it's nothing but one fight after another










-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Mike, is that a screengrab or a pic? I'm assuming screengrab.



I'll respond for Mike, its a screen shot, he set up his NEc just as well as Garys.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14241173
> 
> 
> Mike, is that a screengrab or a pic? I'm assuming screengrab.



Nope screen shot of a 92" wide Parkland plastic screen, XG 1351 with via good ole analog and a box 1021 for a gamma boost.


Mike


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/14242371
> 
> 
> Nope screen shot of a 92" wide Parkland plastic screen, XG 1351 with via good ole analog and a box 1021 for a gamma boost.
> 
> 
> Mike










He says as he glows with pride over his XG goodness!


Very nice Mike and Gary! If mine looked anywhere near as good as you two then I would be tickled pink.


----------



## Gary Murrell

whats folks don't know if that I just about killed myself getting my 1352 that good (i'd say roughly 1 month worth of actual setup time/tweaking), something I am not wanting to do again anytime soon but a tube change is around the corner so I guess I will have to go thru it all again










such is CRT










keep working Drop, you will get it










-Gary


----------



## dochlywd

Gary,


What will be available in HD-SDI? PS3...Samsung......Panny.....LG?


I have the PS3 now.


I also have your Panny RP91-SDI and love it!!!


Thanks!


Mike


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, remember you very well, glad to hear that RP91 is still rockin


pretty much anything dude, the PS3 is being looked into at this point, the LG is the only thing that it is not been done as of yet


Sony, Pioneer Elite, Samsung, Pannys, Denon etc. all no problem


-Gary


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14241688
> 
> 
> not really people opposed to HD-SDI (actually some are over there and believe HDMI is good enough)
> 
> 
> I was being accused of advertising by posting my thoughts on HD-SDI and these images, simple as that
> 
> 
> whatever though, I am tired of it, I just can't get along over there at all, it's nothing but one fight after another
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Just read the thread. WOW. I won't pretend to know all of the history behind it all, but based on looking at that thread, holy ****. Whether you're trying to place a stealth ad or not, it would seem like it would be Curt's concern and not Tom, Dick, and Harry's. The amount of venom being spewed in that thread is almost shocking, but maybe you deserve it dude, I don't know.







But anyway, before I make some enemies of my own.


I am currently not in the market for HD SDI with nothing but a RP CRT set, but the though behind it is intriguing indeed. I have read a few places that HDMI is not unmolested, and if we can get a pure digital signal directly off of the chip, how could that not be better? I imagine the difference between it and HDMI would ultimately be not jaw dropping but maybe it would. Who doesn't want the purest, most artifact free signal going to their display?


----------



## nashou66

Yeah it does suck what going on over there, I really did not think it was a stealth add, he's a paying member so I thought curt would give him a break even if it was. I sorta try deffending him but people are set in thier way sometimes and reffuse to budge a few have got up in arms to deffend themselves and that is fine and well Like WTS after an attack By Gary, who I am sure was just fried up by the others, We should All remember why we are, for the love of CRT and Movies and Home theater. What some people bring to it should be welcomed, maybe with a bit of sceptisism but not attacks like that. Gary you have to admit you let the F bomb drop a lot over there, but it does make for entertaining reading..What was I trying to say now......I lost my train of thoUght.. Oh [email protected]#K IT !










Just post more screen shots!!


Athanasios


----------



## g-man5.1

I can't locate that thread. Could someone direct me to it. Thanks.


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14247874
> 
> 
> Just read the thread. WOW. I won't pretend to know all of the history behind it all, but based on looking at that thread, holy ****. Whether you're trying to place a stealth ad or not, it would seem like it would be Curt's concern and not Tom, Dick, and Harry's. The amount of venom being spewed in that thread is almost shocking, but maybe you deserve it dude, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But anyway, before I make some enemies of my own.
> 
> 
> I am currently not in the market for HD SDI with nothing but a RP CRT set, but the though behind it is intriguing indeed. I have read a few places that HDMI is not unmolested, and if we can get a pure digital signal directly off of the chip, how could that not be better? I imagine the difference between it and HDMI would ultimately be not jaw dropping but maybe it would. Who doesn't want the purest, most artifact free signal going to their display?



understood










I agree 100% with your last paragraph, who can complain about the highest quality possible signal?, apparently some can










the problem with Curt's forum is that everything and I mean everything with most of those people revolves around $$$, big and little of it


if it cost alot it sucks and those people that are buying it are stupid (scalers for example)


they are forgetting that while CRT is the cheapest large projection thing going (and it is DIY tailor made for those pinching pennies) it is being used first and foremost for it's picture quality, which is why some of the most obsessed big $$ spending folks are using CRT


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14248136
> 
> 
> Yeah it does suck what going on over there, I really did not think it was a stealth add, he's a paying member so I thought curt would give him a break even if it was. I sorta try deffending him but people are set in thier way sometimes and reffuse to budge a few have got up in arms to deffend themselves and that is fine and well Like WTS after an attack By Gary, who I am sure was just fried up by the others, We should All remember why we are, for the love of CRT and Movies and Home theater. What some people bring to it should be welcomed, maybe with a bit of sceptisism but not attacks like that. Gary you have to admit you let the F bomb drop a lot over there, but it does make for entertaining reading..What was I trying to say now......I lost my train of thoUght.. Oh [email protected]#K IT !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just post more screen shots!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I gotcha Athan, me and Walter had a bit of history, he was very condescending to me in the past basically saying that because I wasn't a EE that I had no credibility or business doing everything that I am into, I always liked him and he hit me with that out of nowhere


I do get upset alot over there because I can't post without a fight, I should basically stay out










this is Cliffys screenshot thread, I don't want to sidetrack it with this anymore, let talks about it elsewhere guys










I will have some moore HD-SDI screenshots soon










-Gary


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14250016
> 
> 
> I gotcha Athan, me and Walter had a bit of history, he was very condescending to me in the past basically saying that because I wasn't a EE that I had no credibility or business doing everything that I am into, I always liked him and he hit me with that out of nowhere
> 
> 
> I do get upset alot over there because I can't post without a fight, I should basically stay out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is Cliffys screenshot thread, I don't want to sidetrack it with this anymore, let talks about it elsewhere guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will have some moore HD-SDI screenshots soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



I love your posts, and you seem like one of the few guys who are the same if not more, absolutely anal about picture quality. You just have better toys than me.







One day though......oh yes, one day. Either way, I'm on your side as far as all that goes. But anyway, yeah, back on topic;


MORE SCREEN SHOTS PLEASE!!!!!


----------



## David_Web

So what are you sending through that HD-SDI?

IIRC HS-SDI is 4:2:2 YCbCr in it's default form for single link form. Although you can put about anything through it. I can't remember if it have the bandwidth to do 4:4:4 8 bit.

HDMI can run the same and more than a single link but can't compete with a dual link HD-SDI.


So what would the player send out in the HD-SDI compared to HDMI?

Should be the same digital signal unless you reprogrammed it.

I can imagine that scaler being a nice decoder though.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14242734
> 
> 
> whats folks don't know if that I just about killed myself getting my 1352 that good (i'd say roughly 1 month worth of actual setup time/tweaking), something I am not wanting to do again anytime soon but a tube change is around the corner so I guess I will have to go thru it all again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> such is CRT



Now think about doing that twice, and then worry about a blendzone too!










such is blending CRT


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David_Web* /forum/post/14250497
> 
> 
> So what are you sending through that HD-SDI?
> 
> IIRC HS-SDI is 4:2:2 YCbCr in it's default form for single link form. Although you can put about anything through it. I can't remember if it have the bandwidth to do 4:4:4 8 bit.
> 
> HDMI can run the same and more than a single link but can't compete with a dual link HD-SDI.
> 
> 
> So what would the player send out in the HD-SDI compared to HDMI?
> 
> Should be the same digital signal unless you reprogrammed it.
> 
> I can imagine that scaler being a nice decoder though.



HD-SDI from the Panny BD30 is 1080p/24 4:2:2

HDMI from the Panny BD30 is 1080p/24 4:2:2


perfect player to do a comparison on, the HD-SDI is better and ended up winning PQ wise for a host of reasons










-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14250150
> 
> 
> I love your posts, and you seem like one of the few guys who are the same if not more, absolutely anal about picture quality. You just have better toys than me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One day though......oh yes, one day. Either way, I'm on your side as far as all that goes. But anyway, yeah, back on topic;
> 
> 
> MORE SCREEN SHOTS PLEASE!!!!!



thanks dude, if one person likes them then that makes it all worth it










I am headed down later today to check out Boilermakers (Bob) setup in Lexington, can't wait, he wants me to bring the digicam as well, so maybe some goodies will be in store for this thread










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob









[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14250665
> 
> 
> thanks dude, if one person likes them then that makes it all worth it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I am headed down later today to check out Boilermakers (Bob) setup in Lexington, can't wait, he wants me to bring the digicam as well, so maybe some goodies will be in store for this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> -Gary



*Has he got the TV-One units in!!!!!!!*



I'm still waiting for mine !!!! But still have a Hd-144 install and some more Upgrades to a few boards on the second PJ.


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM

Bob these are nice shots off your Mits.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/14255030
> 
> 
> Bob these are nice shots off your Mits.



+1


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14255586
> 
> 
> +1



+1


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14257120



Nice, can't wait to see the stack.


Mike


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr











































































Cliffy


----------



## dochlywd

That's just plain ol' SICK!!!!!!!!!!!



UN-F'ING-BELIEVABLE!!!!!!!


Doc


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yet another disc I have to order.


----------



## Gary Murrell

"Rambo" rules, it is a reference disc audio and video wise


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14251119
> 
> *Has he got the TV-One units in!!!!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for mine !!!! But still have a Hd-144 install and some more Upgrades to a few boards on the second PJ.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Athan just got back a few hours ago, Bob is 100% ready to slap in the TV One unit as soon as it hits, that will be the system to beat on the block when he does, believe me










I am now 100% convinced of the blenders, basing it purely on what you get out of your CRT units (as I haven't even seen the final image yet), I tell you it is just sick man










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dochlywd* /forum/post/14257622
> 
> 
> That's just plain ol' SICK!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> UN-F'ING-BELIEVABLE!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Doc



+1











Mr Bob


----------



## dropzone7

Good **** guys!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14258420
> 
> 
> "Rambo" rules, it is a reference disc audio and video wise
> 
> 
> -Gary



So along with Sly, they've also got Dexter's girlfriend and Jack's former boss from 24, the one he had to kill to comply with the bad guy's demands.


Sweet!


----------



## Gary Murrell

Cliff those shots are unreal dude










-Gary


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/14261936
> 
> 
> Cliff those shots are unreal dude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



+****ing 1!


I am constantly amazed at how film like your screenshots are.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/14262361
> 
> 
> I am constantly amazed at how film like your screenshots are.



Screw that, I bet his set up is Better than Film!! lately the movies I have seen on the big screen havnt impressed me as much as my own theater, so i am Sure what I'll see August 2nd will blow my mind !!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Stop it guys, your making me blush!










Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Hmm you have a red push? Better get that calibrated.


----------



## Arno P

Before changing my 1272 for a 9500lcU...a 1272 shot:


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Arno P* /forum/post/14266165
> 
> 
> Before changing my 1272 for a 9500lcU...a 1272 shot:



So where is the after?


----------



## Zues




----------



## Zues




----------



## MikeEby

These are some shots I took a while back when I was evaluating the Box 1021.


It looks like to me you need almost need to go 1200 pixels wide before you see a big difference from SD to HD.


Thought it was just kind of interesting.


SD









HD









SD









HD










Mike


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice, guys!












Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66

Mike I agree, smaller screen shots hide how much softer SD is to HD. I like going big in screen shots as well.


Athanasios


----------



## Art Sonneborn

_Black Narcissus_, 1947 ,1.33:1


----------



## overclkr

Lookin' good Art!!!!!!


Cliff


----------



## kal

More screenshots Art! (please?)


Kal


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Kal,

I usually don't spend the time unless I want to demonstrate something. In the case of the nun from _Black Narsissus_ it was a shot from an old film to show how much detail there is without DNR applied like in _Patton_. I posted that on the BD software forum first.


Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/14289595
> 
> 
> Kal,
> 
> I usually don't spend the time unless I want to demonstrate something. In the case of the nun from _Black Narsissus_ it was a shot from an old film to show how much detail there is without DNR applied like in _Patton_. I posted that on the BD software forum first.
> 
> 
> Art



Get your ass to work!!!! I need some competition!

















Dude my rear is getting handed to me right now like no tomorrow, good thing is I'm sucking it up and making sh11t happen.










Feels really good actually.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14375649
> 
> 
> Woo Hooo!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff add some shots tp the screen war thread its on page two of this forum now!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Will this do?


----------



## overclkr

Two Money Shots:











As far as this image below, I consider this the EL DIFACTO STANDARD across all platforms.































Feel free to compare!











Art?


Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14375963
> 
> 
> Art?
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Nothing new my friend .














I think you saw the _Boys From Brazil_and _Black Narcissus_ shots I took to illustrate grain, detail, DNR and lack of EE.


If not , here they are.......









_Black Narcissus_ 1947 Technicolor ,BD











_The Boys From Brazil_ 1978 BD










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/14376073
> 
> 
> Nothing new my friend .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you saw the _Boys From Brazil_and _Black Narcissus_ shots I took to illustrate grain, detail, DNR and lack of EE.
> 
> 
> If not , here they are.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Black Narcissus_ 1947 Technicolor ,BD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Boys From Brazil_ 1978 BD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Hehe, I knew that I coiuld drag you in.

















Can I borrow that disc?










Cliffy


----------



## Gary Murrell

posted in another thread:


"The Rock" BD from Panny BD30 with 4:2:2 1080p/24 output into the VP50pro set to 1920x800p 4:2:2 output, moome HDMI card accepting 10-bit 4:2:2



































































-Gary


----------



## DVD MAN

Denon 3800 and Sony G-70 1080i with Moome hdmi card.


----------



## Gary Murrell

looking good Nelson, those first couple shots are out of camera focus, but those last few are far from such

















-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

If anybody wants an insane deal on a camera of the same brand and with the same fine Schneider optics that Cliff uses on his shots - and so do I, I was so impressed with his, I bought one too - check this out -

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...70&dcaid=17070 


This cam has everything you need for excellent screenshots, including manual focusing and manual everything. Total overkill at 12MP, but 5x on the optical zoom, plus lots more -


At under $100, it's a steal for a second camera to have around. You usually don't see those fine Schneider optics on cameras at this price level -




Mr Bob


----------



## Zues

I-Robot Sony bds-350.


----------



## Zues




----------



## Gary Murrell

Zues we need more system details dude, PJ? output setup?










thanks


-Gary


----------



## Zues

^I wish it was a projector gary. It's a plasma. 1080I hdmi set at RGB(0-255)


----------



## overclkr












I think I have this shot.










Very Nice!


Cliff


----------



## Zues

Thanks cliff


----------



## AnalogRocks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14383335
> 
> 
> If anybody wants an insane deal on a camera of the same brand and with the same fine Schneider optics that Cliff uses on his shots - and so do I, I was so impressed with his, I bought one too - check this out -
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...70&dcaid=17070
> 
> 
> This cam has everything you need for excellent screenshots, including manual focusing and manual everything. Total overkill at 12MP, but 5x on the optical zoom, plus lots more -
> 
> 
> At under $100, it's a steal for a second camera to have around. You usually don't see those fine Schneider optics on cameras at this price level -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Would that be the Kodak Z1275? The link above is dead.


----------



## cambeyk

very good


----------



## WTS

Is there anyone that ships these to Canuck land?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AnalogRocks* /forum/post/14389547
> 
> 
> Would that be the Kodak Z1275? The link above is dead.



Wow, they musta sold out of them already. It was the 1285, refurbed.


"Kodak Z1285 Easyshare Zoom Digital Camera, 12 Megapixel, 5x Optical Zoom, 5x Advanced Digital Zoom and 2.7" LCD Screen -Factory Recertified - 1679109"


It was going for $89.99, free shipping. Guess I can mention prices, now that the deal's been ether'd and no longer exists...











You might find one using www.pricegrabber.com -


Hm. Just tried that, their lowest price was not even close. Gotta hop on these deals, I guess!



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/14388653
> 
> 
> ^I wish it was a projector gary. It's a plasma. 1080I hdmi set at RGB(0-255)



Yes, very nice, entirely respectable blacks, esp. for a plasma. Great colorations and fleshtones.


Brand/model? If Panny, the 85 series?


So you're running it at i rather than p on the HDMI? Why?



Mr Bob


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14390992
> 
> 
> Yes, very nice, entirely respectable blacks, esp. for a plasma. Great colorations and fleshtones.
> 
> 
> Brand/model? If Panny, the 85 series?
> 
> 
> So you're running it at i rather than p on the HDMI? Why?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Thanks Bob. It's a generic brand 720p. The blacks don't look as deep as in the pics. Your mits would wipe the floor as far as black levels.


----------



## Blasst

DVD Man posted this shot of Sean Connery, which reminded me I had read that Peter Jackson had initially wanted him to play Gandalf. Maybe he had seen him in The Rock


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14383335
> 
> 
> If anybody wants an insane deal on a camera of the same brand and with the same fine Schneider optics that Cliff uses on his shots - and so do I, I was so impressed with his, I bought one too - check this out -
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...70&dcaid=17070
> 
> 
> This cam has everything you need for excellent screenshots, including manual focusing and manual everything. Total overkill at 12MP, but 5x on the optical zoom, plus lots more -
> 
> 
> At under $100, it's a steal for a second camera to have around. You usually don't see those fine Schneider optics on cameras at this price level -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Guys, I found 6 screenshot Kodak cams in stock here:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=Z712-R 


Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14405861
> 
> 
> Guys, I found 6 screenshot Kodak cams in stock here:
> 
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=Z712-R
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Awesome, Cliff. Yup, that's my baby, the Z12, the one I bought because of your Z10's shots, the one I have been sending shots up here with for the past few months.


Even better price than I paid, because of the 10% off! Good score! Those German Schneider optics really do the job on fine detail, which is what your shots have been specializing in most, IMHO. And the 12x magnification means a huge lens, assuring you of huge cat's eye light gathering potential, on dark, otherwise challenging vacation or night or dusk shots. VERY different from the tiny little lenses in most digital cams.


Guys, I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to do screenshots on the boards here. Just clicked on the link now, nearly 2 weeks later and they appear to not be available there anymore, but I would still recommend this cam, and they can be found elsewhere. Kodak just recently disco'd them, resulting in a great price break but also a limited closeout supply, so grab one while you can. When they're gone, they're gone!












Mr Bob


----------



## CaspianM

A bunch of new posts are deleted! Where are the SS's from Barco?


----------



## Delicious2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/14421180
> 
> 
> A bunch of new posts are deleted! Where are the SS's from Barco?










Hey ya! Whahappend?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Delicious2* /forum/post/14422038
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey ya! Whahappend?



They had a bad crash, had to recover back to Aug. 2. There was a notice about it when I signed on this morning, it's gone now -



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

Cine screenshots????? Answer to my question?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/14421180
> 
> 
> A bunch of new posts are deleted! Where are the SS's from Barco?



Thats what happens when someone down right defies Cliffs shots and insults "THE STACK", the Crt gods of G90 stack reeked havoc on the forum !










Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14433900
> 
> 
> Cine screenshots????? Answer to my question?



Lessee...whatchyer question again? Musta disappeared like everything else...


----------



## spotmatic

Here are the Cine 9 screenshots again. I just like to challenge the G90 stack God


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/14449772
> 
> 
> Here are the Cine 9 screenshots again. I just like to challenge the G90 stack God



It's about time! I'll try to get to work this weekend.


----------



## antorsae

WOW... and I mean WOW.


----------



## WTS

Hi Spot, Just curious where you have the contrast and brightness settings at. What is the size of the screen and gain?


----------



## CaspianM

Is the source a PC? I posted this before it got deleted that I saw a fair amount of ringing even around the frame. Too much sharpening perhaps??


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/14453552
> 
> 
> Is the source a PC? I posted this before it got deleted that I saw a fair amount of ringing even around the frame. Too much sharpening perhaps??



I agree, you can see a little EE on the shots, don't remember seeing that in the movie. Just trace outlines (eg. bodies/faces of the people) you can see it.


Also, whites are crushed at the top end, but I know it's very difficult to take screenshots when you have so much dynamic range.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14451633
> 
> 
> WOW... and I mean WOW.



Yup.


Nice...












Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14454765
> 
> 
> I agree, you can see a little EE on the shots, don't remember seeing that in the movie. Just trace outlines (eg. bodies/faces of the people) you can see it.
> 
> 
> Also, whites are crushed at the top end, but I know it's very difficult to take screenshots when you have so much dynamic range.




Boy you guys are picky! I am struggling to see ANY ee on those shots. Adrian's face has some outlining on his beard on both sides of his face, but that's backlighting. She doesn't have ANY I can see, on her face, esp. at the telltale cheek and jaw areas -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14405861
> 
> 
> Guys, I found 6 screenshot Kodak cams in stock here:
> 
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=Z712-R
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I just found some more, evidently at the same place, same great price, they musta got some new ones in. They are at www.geeks.com , as of today "almost gone" status.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?Inv...12-R&cpc=RECOM 



Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14455163
> 
> 
> I just found some more, evidently at the same place, same great price, they musta got some new ones in. They are at www.geeks.com , as of today "almost gone" status.
> 
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?Inv...12-R&cpc=RECOM
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yep, thats a real good price. Great camera. I like the newer version though that my father in law has. It captures HD video at 720P.


Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14455275
> 
> 
> Yep, thats a real good price. Great camera. I like the newer version though that my father in law has. It captures HD video at 720P.
> 
> 
> Cliff



I KNEW there was a reason for the low price on this closeout model...! They are always keeping something from us, just around the corner from what's out there now... One reason I like to go to CES every year -


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14454823
> 
> 
> Boy you guys are picky! I am struggling to see ANY ee on those shots. Adrian's face has some outlining on his beard on both sides of his face, but that's backlighting. She doesn't have ANY I can see, on her face, esp. at the telltale cheek and jaw areas -



If you pull up the original frame grab of those scenes, the EE will become more apparent to you. I suspect alot of it came perhaps from his resize algorithm. But, there is no denying the white crush.


Plus, I've already given Kudos to spot for his shots on the other site, some of the best I've seen!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14455599
> 
> 
> If you pull up the original frame grab of those scenes, the EE will become more apparent to you. I suspect alot of it came perhaps from his resize algorithm. But, there is no denying the white crush.
> 
> 
> Plus, I've already given Kudos to spot for his shots on the other site, some of the best I've seen!



I agree 100%


I have some work to do.










We need to do some comparison shots so I'm going to go for those same frames from King Kong when I get some time.


I have Ashley's Sweet 16 Party to contend with this weekend so I don't know if I'll get to it but I plan on it before I leave for William's meet.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Some "old" shots:





































































































These should get you guys by for the mean time.


----------



## winduptoy

Spot; That PJ of yours is sooooo sharp! Do you have Casino Royale so we can see apples vs apples?


----------



## jrcorwin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14080913
> 
> 
> Quick preview:




What movie is this??


----------



## Wallboy

Looks like House of 1000 Corpses


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wallboy* /forum/post/14479495
> 
> 
> Looks like House of 1000 Corpses



It looks way better on Cliff's stack then the screen shots. The image was simply flawless.


Mike


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/14481469
> 
> 
> It looks way better on Cliff's stack then the screen shots. The image was simply flawless.
> 
> 
> Mike



You took the words right out of my mouth Mikey!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## ciccio1112

my screenshot:

HTPC+JVC HD1







:


----------



## overclkr

I decided recently to go back into my love of DJ'ing again. I mixed for years with some of the best names out of Chicago where House Music was born.


This is what I brought home tonight:





























I'm pairing them with a Numark 5000FX mixer and also ordering Serato Scratch Live so that I can mix on my new babies from MP3's.


I'm STOKED!!!!!!


I come from the 102.7 WBMX years and right in the heart of what Chicago brought to the world. Can't wait to get back into it again!!!!!!!










Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

Good stuff Cliff!


You still owe me a house mix CD!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14490033
> 
> 
> Good stuff Cliff!
> 
> 
> You still owe me a house mix CD!



Bro, I got you covered fo sho!










Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob

Another good example of how good your Z10 is, Cliff. I delight in seeing how delicately detailed some of the shots of regular stuff my Z12 takes, completely separate from screenshots. Shows up here on your shots.



Mr Bob


----------



## superleo

These will work great with Serato too


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14455599
> 
> 
> If you pull up the original frame grab of those scenes, the EE will become more apparent to you. I suspect alot of it came perhaps from his resize algorithm. But, there is no denying the white crush.
> 
> 
> Plus, I've already given Kudos to spot for his shots on the other site, some of the best I've seen!



Andrew Lesnie; DP for King Kong, LOTR & Babe, seems to prefer blown out whites more often than not. LOTR (all three) have many examples of smoked highlights that the extensive digital grading used in the series could not save.

I would love to see Spot's screenshots of better source material. That Barco of his is really sharp and he's a first rate photographer.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/14513896
> 
> 
> DP for King Kong.....
> 
> seems to prefer blown out whites more often than not



That may be the case, but you don't find Jack's hat a little too fluorescent?









I don't recall it looking like that when I watched this movie.


----------



## overclkr

William's 9500 Blend 12ft wide DVX Processor:


----------



## andrewfee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/14514121
> 
> 
> That may be the case, but you don't find Jack's hat a little too fluorescent?
> http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...179769-580.jpg
> 
> I don't recall it looking like that when I watched this movie.



Cameras don't have enough dynamic range to capture an accurate image from most displays. You either have clipped shadow details or blown-out highlights. (as is the case here)


----------



## overclkr

JUST IN CASE YOU GUYS MISSED THIS:


William's 9500 Blend 12ft wide DVX Processor:


----------



## overclkr

G90 Stack:


----------



## bryanc009

Wow, what a great stuff i got here lots of mine favorite, just keep up posting more.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewfee* /forum/post/14514954
> 
> 
> Cameras don't have enough dynamic range to capture an accurate image from most displays. You either have clipped shadow details or blown-out highlights. (as is the case here)



I know this, and it is his screenshots I am critiquing, not his setup.


You can try get around this with HDR images to some extent.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

There used to be a little corner here for us RPCRT folks, so I came back just to let the world at large know that there are lots of other wonderful CRT's alive and well and doing a fabulous job (just not quite as fabulous as the PJ's that "reside" here):




















Hitachi 57F59A


Michael


----------



## Mr Bob

Very nice shots, Michael. Esp. leaving them rather big, and still your crispness doesn't falter.











Mr Bob


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14544854
> 
> 
> Very nice shots, Michael. Esp. leaving them rather big, and still your crispness doesn't falter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob




Thanks. And thanks again for the help up the very steep learning curve.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/14545097
> 
> 
> Thanks. And thanks again for the help up the very steep learning curve.



And thank YOU for the fabulous setup disc you sent. Will be fun to explore it -












Mr Bob


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14515704
> 
> 
> G90 Stack:



Dang..... that is a nice one. The color tone you captured is a top notch.


I think your camera is better than mineeeeeee.











Check out my latest Japanese pics --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...733641&page=30 

These are compressed HD's from Japanese broadcasts. Of course, playback using my HTPC.



Have fun you all.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IamAnoobieCheez* /forum/post/14555550
> 
> 
> 
> Check out my latest Japanese pics --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...733641&page=30
> 
> These are compressed HD's from Japanese broadcasts. Of course, playback using my HTPC.
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun you all.



Nice shootin'. Must have taken you quite awhile, shooting all those. Did the manual mode require lots of changes, as you went along?



Mr Bob


----------



## IamAnoobieCheez




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14555647
> 
> 
> Nice shootin'. Must have taken you quite awhile, shooting all those. Did the manual mode require lots of changes, as you went along?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Thanks Mr Bob.







Yea I've put a lot of hours on these pics. I take about 10 pics of each shot and pick the best one. I use manual setting. I had to change light aperture (F-Stop #'s) and white balance constantly in order to capture the image as close as possible. All the rest of settings were programmed for taking this kind of shots so they are good.











.


----------



## nashou66

Some shots of Cool hand Luke.

Andres these are with your CLM







My PJ is still not optically focused to its potential. I keep moving around so its never 100% lined up, also CPC magnets are off, lots of work to do. Plus took pics at angle so overall camera focus is off too.






































Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

Adreas is me, right?










...Andres


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14625419
> 
> 
> Adreas is me, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Andres



Yep I keep doing that to your name!!!!! Sorry Bro I am going to ship them out today, hopefull they will be there on monday or tuesday next week I burned the midnight oil on the second board this weekend, at least 16 hours of work dude ! Once again I had a bad Chip from Ti, not good so far seems like every third chip i tried was bad, this time it was the OPA4134(Burr Brown chip). Also I had an issue with a few caps that were bad. But i watched most of dark city last night with it, nice! If you dont have that disc get it even though it mostly dark black scenes the colors that "are" there are really really nice contrast to the darkness. Cool hand Luke is an ok transfer but not the best, washed out colors, not as good as Grand Prix transfer on HD DVD for an older movie.


The 22uf SMT tants I usd on your and keeping the Original ceramic 100hf caps works better I think than how mine was done, cant put my finger on it but I liked watching your boards more, easier on the eyes is how to best describe it. Ordering those now for mine !!! I think they are lower ESR than the ones i have on mine. I just hope there will be no start up problems when used with mikes boards. But I think my use of SMT's might lessen any start up issues. I had none.


I hope it makes a difference on your PJ's.


Athanasios


----------



## Gino AUS

Athanasios, can you describe what these mods to the CLM do for the picture?


I hope they arrive there in time for my visit so I can see, if they are good I'll likely send mine over


----------



## nashou66

To me it seams the colors are deeper, richer. no resolving improvement but a viewing experiance that is easier on the eyes , I cant explain what the diffrence is because its so sublte, but I know i like it!







KBK said the same thing, that lines are drawn where they are suppose to be which improves color, and he was running [email protected] high scan rates with out any MP mods, so he must have liked a soft pic with the improved colors. I can see scanline at 1080p on my 8500 but they are not well defined but are still dicernable. I have only done some neck board upgrades as per my thread on curts, so its not a big improvement like MP mods but good enough for me.

So basicly deeper colors, Dark City looked great color wise, especially the scene when he goes to the hookers apartment, the beads, staind glass sconces, her skin tone...it just was awesome. A great movie for CRT.


I hope Andre is happy with them, I am only concered with the start up since there is a lot of added capacitance to that board, and With the extra capacitance mike used on his boards it might be too much for the LVPS, But I have added a bit more capacitance to the FCM and VNB's and I have not had one issue with start ups at all with my fully modded CLM's, as I said before I used SMT tants where KBK used radial dipped on mark haflich's board where mike had to remove a few to get it to start up. I added a few 1uf tants to the package incase Andre has to remove some to get it to start up but I think it should be fine.


Oh and KBK said it lowered the noise floor a few decibles onthe power rails, i have not tested this but ti seams to be the case.

*EDIT*: Ok I found the links and post by Ken (KBK) about the changes he made to the Marquee,

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...369#post676369 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KBK* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are other things you can go after to eliminate noise in the PJ. If it has a central board that handles sweep duties,and any of the input or line amplifiers, then go after any electrolytics there. If the unit has electrostatic focus and/or electronically derived focus control circuits, they are CRITICAL to image quality. Go after those, if any electrolytics are involved. Specifically any line drawing or horizontal/vertical control circuitry. The dividers/ clocking circuitry are VITAL for line placement and control which DIRECTLY equates to focus and control. So, re-doing the VIM or control board in a marquee creates a VERY stable and film like image, as well as doing the rest of the boards. in the marquee chassis i have, the appearance of the image, after doing the rest of the PJ, as that the noise floor and stability of the image took a HUGE jump forward after the mods to this main control board. SO, the VIM board on the Marquee, and any equivalent on a Ampro chassis. For me, it was a 'appearance' of about a 3-5db change in the video S/N ratio. That's absolutely HUGE. But then again, I had done every single part in the PJ before that, the control module was the last thing I did, and seemed to be vital to the image quality,as Chris Stephens said it would be. Funny, for some reason, I left it for last.
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ken Hotte



And this one that explains the CLM mod, i added the Mike Parker Mod, and some chip changes.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...647#post677647 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KBK* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have made the situation a bit murky. What I was speaking of was TWO different boards, but did not make that clear. I was speaking of the control board, which from looking from the back of a marquee chassis is on the left. It is the one with the diagnostic lights. Similar attacks should be mounted on the VIM, or input module, re the 15volt rails.
> 
> 
> There is a entire run of circuitry on that board that runs at the 5 volt level. Lotsa logic circuitry. These chips need to have their .1uf ceramic caps removed, and swapped out with something like the following: Kemet brand, 47uf 6.3volt tantalum caps. The leads will have to be bent, and then cut, and then mounted on the solder pads. The cap is T350F476K006AS17301. There is also a run of OP-AMPS on this board as well. Some higher voltage rails are used. The buffer caps (two for each chip amp) of each rail should be swapped out to be Kemet brand 16 volt 22uf caps, or higher value. Maybe 33uf tantalum caps. They should be mounted in the same way. Same series of caps from Kemet, but 16 volt rated. Anything bigger and you raise the ghost of unreliability. Anything lower in value, and you lower the effectiveness of the modification.
> 
> 
> I have suffered NO failures or odd behavior. This modification of the control board brings about a huge increase in the stability of the line drawing and drops the noise floor as a consequence, due to the fact that lines are being drawn in their proper spots, and therefore this equates to alignment, which is gun-to-gun alignment (overlay) which directly can be equated to maximum contrast range, or video S/N ratio. The effect this circuit has on damaging the rest of the PJ's dealing with the quality of power in the -/+ 15 volt rails is quite critical as well. When you run at 1920x1200 at 72hz like I do (simply a very high scanning number, well over a 2X multiple of the original DVD transfer, and nearly a perfect multiple of the original HD master the DVD transfer was created with), to get the BEST DVD overlay possible; these modifications, and the clairity they bring to the PJ are CRITICAL.
> 
> 
> Fixing this at the chips involved, stops them from polluting the rest of the parts that use these rails, and gives them greater stability as well. So, the effect is doubled, in a way. Of course, those voltage rails would be corrected as well, (all other boards and circuitry) right at the parts involved, on their specific boards in question.
> 
> 
> Video S/N ratio is what it's all about. Achieving that is what brings you closer to film. The PJ only has so much light output that it can dish out in a linear fashion. Dropping the noise floor has the same effect as increasing the overall output capacity of the PJ,whilst bringing every aspect of that Video S/N range and signal capacity to a more linear and perfectly represented level. This brings about tremendous stabiltiy to the image, and makes the experience considerably more 3-d like, and film like.
> 
> 
> If you can't increase the output of the PJ, drop the noise floor, and linearize the behavoir of every gradation of a signal inbetween those two points. MASSIVE improvement in image quality is fully assured. A greater RANGE of signals can then be properly presented. Subjective analysis of content (DVD, HD, etc) can then take place. For instance, films like Dark City, look fantastic. You get the Video S/N ratio right where you need it, at the bottom of the range. (besides everything above that!)
> 
> 
> Basically, HD mastering suites wish they had the image qualites that I have to suffer through enjoying. I don't care if they are using a G90, Barco Cimemax, or whatever, they ain't getting the image I am, period.
> 
> 
> I did this and more to a ECP 4100 chassis, in an extreme way, about 1.5-2 years ago now. The ECP ROCKED. It TRASHED am mint condtion NEC GP-5000 in image fidelity. And the GP-5000 is a 9" tubed Liquid Coupled unit, with HD-10 lenses.
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ken Hotte




Athanasios


----------



## antorsae

Athanasios, Thanks! I didn't know you completed the two boards, I thought that you finished one of them.


So next week is going to be a hell of a week: Gino and I calibrating the two heavily modded Marquees, now with modded CLMs too (I really hope they arrive in time!).


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/14631585
> 
> 
> Athanasios, Thanks! I didn't know you completed the two boards, I thought that you finished one of them.
> 
> 
> So next week is going to be a hell of a week: Gino and I calibrating the two heavily modded Marquees, now with modded CLMs too (I really hope they arrive in time!).



Yepp!







when I found out Gino was coming and you wanted one board, I figured i should get my arse in gear and start the other one!! I did not test it as long as the first one but I am very confident it will be fine. I have gotten very skilled in doing this mod now (3 boards under my belt) and have started my own second board so I can start my blend. Wish I was htere to help you two ! I would have brought the TV-One units too!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

The Doors - Blue Ray




























































































Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14665530
> 
> 
> The Doors - Blue Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



OMG...












Mr Bob


----------



## LastButNotLeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14666643
> 
> 
> OMG...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yes, we're getting old(er) (though I know that's not what you meant).

Just got a 2008 CES DTS-HD disc. Here's a hard-working lad from the Pixies:


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/14678524
> 
> 
> Yes, we're getting old(er) (though I know that's not what you meant).
> 
> Just got a 2008 CES DTS-HD disc. Here's a hard-working lad from the Pixies:



NICE, Michael! Esp. the depth of that edge of his face against the black background. You know how bad that transition would look if your optics were not sizzling clean, like they obviously are?


----------



## overclkr

Kill Bill Volume One First Round - Blue Ray:


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LastButNotLeast* /forum/post/14678524
> 
> 
> Yes, we're getting old(er) (though I know that's not what you meant).
> 
> Just got a 2008 CES DTS-HD disc. Here's a hard-working lad from the Pixies:



Ahhhh good ole Frank Black ! Teenager of the year ! great album!!!


Athanasios


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14685655
> 
> 
> Kill Bill Volume One First Round - Blue Ray:



Wow. Excellent shots as always Cliffy! These 2 discs are on their way to me right now... can't wait to watch them!


Kal


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/14686082
> 
> 
> Wow. Excellent shots as always Cliffy! These 2 discs are on their way to me right now... can't wait to watch them!
> 
> 
> Kal



Thanks Kal.










I think you'll be very impressed.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Kill Bill Vol 2



















































































Cliff


----------



## Clarence

Nice!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/14713896
> 
> 
> Nice!



Yeah, esp. the texture of Carradine's face. Those Schneider optics on his cam are comin' thru -


Mr Bob


----------



## joplass




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11491963
> 
> 
> How did I miss this one?
> 
> 
> That is incredibly sharp. What projector????
> 
> 
> Cliff



I don't own a CRT but that is natural colors at their best.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/14713993
> 
> 
> Yeah, esp. the texture of Carradine's face. Those Schneider optics on his cam are comin' thru -
> 
> 
> Mr Bob



Yeah, he needs a laser peel!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/14713896
> 
> 
> Nice!



Thanks BIG DOG.










This one was my favorite:











That deck is looking SMOKIN' btw.










Cliffy


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14717934
> 
> 
> Thanks BIG DOG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one was my favorite:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That deck is looking SMOKIN' btw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Just makes me want to lock eyes with her, and with her permission reach out and touch the backs of my fingers to her cheek, just to feel that texture...


Hard to believe that pic of yours is coming from a flat surface made of cloth!











Mr Bob


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Just makes me want to lock eyes with her, and with her permission reach out and touch the backs of my fingers to her cheek, just to feel that texture...



Bob Dude, you need to get out more...your scaring me.










Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/14735734
> 
> 
> Bob Dude, you need to get out more...your scaring me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Hey, I woke up in the wee hours, couldn't get back to sleep. What's a guy to do?












Mr Bob


----------



## Owen

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it useful to repost it here. No disrespect is intended toward Cliff and his fine screen shots


Image sharpness and resolution are two distinctly separate issues. Sharpness is governed by image contrast; low contrast equals low perceived sharpness even if image detail or resolution is high. The opposite is also true, relatively low resolution images can look very sharp if contrast is high. The “Kill Bill” shot from Cliff is a good example; the “details” are actually quite large and would use many pixels in a 1920x1080 image to portray. The reason it looks sharp is simply due to the high contrast created by the scene lighting, it makes the texture of the skin stand out; you don’t need a lot of resolution to show this kind of “detail”.

Here is Cliffs shot resized down to NTSC DVD resolution (720x480) to remove all resolution about that limit, it was then scaled back up to its original size of 1204x497 to make comparison with the original easy. The upscaling cannot replace resolution that was lost in the downscaling and yet the image looks almost the same as the original, even though resolution has been almost halved.











Here is the original again for comparison.











Image “resolution” and pixel count are often assumed to be the same thing, but nothing could be further from the truth. The visible resolution of an image is always significantly lower then the image pixel count if the image was shot with a camera (digital or film), only computer generated images that are displayed 1:1 can have the same resolution as their pixel count would suggest. This is because all real world images captured by a camera or scanner are heavily filtered leaving almost zero detail at the single pixel level. Digitally captured images must be filtered to avoid aliasing and other nasty artifacts in the output image. The first stage filter is the camera or scanner lens which is never sharp at the single pixel level, especially in high megapixel cameras, next is a diffuser placed in front of the image sensor to deliberately blur high spatial frequency information (fine detail) over more then one pixel. After the sensor has captured the already blurry image a steep digital low pass filter is applied to average out pixel data at the single pixel level.

The idea of all this filtering is to exclude spatial frequencies greater then the pixel count of the sensor from entering the system, but the filter chain cannot act as a brick wall as its not technically possible, unfortunately filtering starts to affect the image at less the half the pixel count. If you look at the response of any digital camera you will see it falls away steeply at high spatial frequencies and should be close to zero at the pixel count in a typical well designed camera.

A measure of image contrast over a range of spatial frequencys is Modulation Transfer Function or MTF, MTF graphs describe the frequency response of an individual component like a lens or a complete camera or video system.


To get sharp looking images we need high contrast or MTF at middling spatial frequencies, and that is what camera designers attempt to achieve, super high resolution is not needed. High resolution without high MTF (high image contrast) is pointless as the “detail” will be so soft and indistinct that it becomes invisible.


There is plenty of on line information on MTF for those that are interested, but for those who prefer instructional video here is a link to a four part Panavision video seminar on the topic of “Resolution”, it’s just as relevant to still cameras as video or film.

http://media.panavision.com/Screenin...art1_480p.html 



Here is the scaled down image sharpened and compared to the original.

Sharpening increases contrast not resolution and as you can see it makes the 720x480 scaled version look sharper then the original.

One of the speakers in the Panavison videos makes the comment that “most people think resolution is double what it really is”, how true.


----------



## winduptoy

Hi, I hope you guys don't mind if I lower the performance bar. I really enjoy seeing what others are doing with their setups. These are from a small (84") screen in a living room/HT. 1080i60 on G70 w/HDMI card. Slight curve at top at bottom is barrel distortion from camera lens. Been wanting to join in for a while, but hard drive had other ideas and shut me down for a month.









[/IMG]









[/IMG]









[/IMG]


----------



## nashou66

Looks great ! Nice work!


Athanasios


----------



## winduptoy

Thanks! HT afficienados with projectors are rare out here; CRT PJ's, almost unheard of.


- Will


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/14908222
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



All of them are great, but I like this one especially.


----------



## winduptoy

Have you guys watched this yet; cinematography is among the best I've ever seen.









[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]

... and a tip of the hat to Clarence.








[/IMG]


----------



## overclkr

Hi.





































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr


































































Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Looking good...


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14922970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Ha ha! While my browser was loading this was the first pic that popped up. I did not even need to see who posted it. I knew it was Cliff!










Looks kick ass man!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/14926584
> 
> 
> Ha ha! While my browser was loading this was the first pic that popped up. I did not even need to see who posted it. I knew it was Cliff!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks kick ass man!




Dude, look at the background on that elevator!!!! Isn't it AWESOME!!!!!

















Cliffy


----------



## winduptoy

Gone Baby Gone;

Looks like it's shot on high speed stock (grainy, nice dark shadows) Good movie & example of John Toll's cinematography.


----------



## overclkr

Wow!!! Grain City!!!!!!


Good job!


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/14929361
> 
> 
> Dude, look at the background on that elevator!!!! Isn't it AWESOME!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Tight! As always, looooooking gud!










hope you guys are doing well. can't wait to do another road trip your way.










wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/14943141
> 
> 
> Tight! As always, looooooking gud!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hope you guys are doing well. can't wait to do another road trip your way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallace



Me either big dog!!!! Hope that shoulder comes together for you soon!!!!!!


Let me know how the secret ribs turn out!


----------



## afwjam




----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afwjam* /forum/post/15008525




Is that your "old" Sony CRT in action?


Nice!












Mr Bob


----------



## key-man

Just saw this today on craigs list in SF. I can't post the url ,yet , since I have not posted enough...


Sony G90 CRT Projector - $150 (albany / el cerrito)


Good physical condition, removed from High-End home theater.

Tubes are old and probably require replacement however the unit has many good parts and electronics.


Will not ship, Must Pick Up!


Contact me for further information.



FEATURES

9" Electromagnetic-Focus CRTs

HD Ready for High Definition Video

Digital Reality Creation (DRC) for Ultra-Enhanced Resolution

4:3 Standard or 16:9 Widescreen Aspect Ratios

RGB/Component Input: Accepts DVD, S-Video, TV Signals

Full-function wired/wireless remote

Quiet Operation


Projects Brilliant Theatrical Images on screens up to 300-inches diagonal


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *key-man* /forum/post/15065637
> 
> 
> Just saw this today on craigs list in SF. I can't post the url ,yet , since I have not posted enough...
> 
> 
> Sony G90 CRT Projector - $150 (albany / el cerrito)
> 
> 
> Good physical condition, removed from High-End home theater.
> 
> Tubes are old and probably require replacement however the unit has many good parts and electronics.
> 
> 
> Will not ship, Must Pick Up!
> 
> 
> Contact me for further information.



It already sold.


Nashou


----------



## Jiki8

Looking good those are some clean shots


----------



## BenCarnes

Flipping through this thread makes me green with envy.


Are these screenshots captured with standard digital cameras? And, if that is the case (as it seems to be), is that a valid indicator of picture quality? It seems like something might be "lost in translation," so to speak.


Regardless, I can't wait to have my own setup to show-off (hopefully it will be show-offable).


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

How's everyone? I've been so addicted with gardening that I almost forgot my crt. Enough for gardening now that it's winter. Hehehe!










I'm glad she's still kickin'. My 1272q celebrated her 1st year birthday last September 27.


Anyways, I took some shots from some shows this evening and another 1(fringe) from 2 weeks ago.


----------



## imprez25

good to see that the ol' 1272 is still kickin'. I just recently got a new projector, a digital. So far I'm not impressed. My lowly 1251q threw a better picture, but the wife didn't want it hung on our newly finished basement ceiling. So, I got a digital. Yeah, its small, yeah it's quiet, yeah it only took me 5 minutes to set up, yeah I can do CIH, yeah it's a lot brighter, but damn it I want the room to go pitch black on a FTB scene! That's not happening with this flashlight strapped to my ceiling.










Keep up the good work!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

hey, I saw your build. It's quite cool. I'm glad you've already started yours.


And yeah, am very glad to have this pj. When I got it from you, it was 3300 hours. I just looked at it few minutes ago, it's at 4708 hours.







Am averaging like 4 hours a day for 365 days.


So where is your 1251 now?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/15094340
> 
> 
> How's everyone? I've been so addicted with gardening that I almost forgot my crt. Enough for gardening now that it's winter. Hehehe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad she's still kickin'. My 1272q celebrated her 1st year birthday last September 27.
> 
> 
> Anyways, I took some shots from some shows this evening and another 1(fringe) from 2 weeks ago.



Most Excellent shots!


You must have dialed that puppy in very nice. I like it.










Cliff


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Thanks Cliff!


----------



## imprez25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/15101147
> 
> 
> hey, I saw your build. It's quite cool. I'm glad you've already started yours.
> 
> 
> And yeah, am very glad to have this pj. When I got it from you, it was 3300 hours. I just looked at it few minutes ago, it's at 4708 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am averaging like 4 hours a day for 365 days.
> 
> 
> So where is your 1251 now?



It's still in my basement, back where I had the 1272 set up when you picked it up, collecting dust. Maybe someday I'll break it out and convince the wife that it won't "ugly" the basement up.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/15094340
> 
> 
> How's everyone? I've been so addicted with gardening that I almost forgot my crt. Enough for gardening now that it's winter. Hehehe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad she's still kickin'. My 1272q celebrated her 1st year birthday last September 27.
> 
> 
> Anyways, I took some shots from some shows this evening and another 1(fringe) from 2 weeks ago.



Love these two. Fleshtones.....CRT's specialty!


----------



## winduptoy

Excellent screenshots! It must be a pleasure to watch movies on a PJ dialed in that well. BTW, your geometry seems to be spot on as well.


----------



## overclkr

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!!!!!!





































































































Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Nice ones Big Dog! Awesome detail in those shots! Happy Thanksgiving to you!


----------



## nashou66

Hi Cliff Just watched mine last night too, very good movie. Charlise is as Hot as ever in this one !!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/15163961
> 
> 
> Nice ones Big Dog! Awesome detail in those shots! Happy Thanksgiving to you!



Thanks!!!!!! May your Turkey day be blessed with many beers and turkey!!!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15164135
> 
> 
> Hi Cliff Just watched mine last night too, very good movie. Charlise is as Hot as ever in this one !!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Dude I was laughing my ass off last night! Great flick and most EXCELLENT transfer!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/15166349
> 
> 
> I'm sitting here with Alan, nice screen caps. Alan's drooling; he can't wait to get his CRT; it's all he's talking about



Thanks.










Alan will soon be in CRT nirvana for sure.










Cliff


----------



## Gary Murrell

very nice, some amazing stuff here


this one is for Cliffy, the last shots I took of my 1352LC:



































































































-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

Just finished adding another shim to my CRT array, a la (thanks!) Owen, for a total of 2.25" - 3 shims of 3/4" each, 4 of them - to my 73" Mit. I added a spot of white glue between the shims and under them, for stability. This makes half again the amount of shimmage I had before today, with just 2 shim thicknesses each x4, for 1.5" of shimmage for the last few months -


Took this opportunity to reclean the lens tops, it had been a year or so since last time, made a noticeable difference. Mit's HDreadys don't need the deeper optics cleaning, they don't allow an air gap between the lenses and the coolant covers, like the Elites do.


I think my shots are being compromised by being in jpeg, which I have heard reduces the res automatically. I checked my cam and can't find any way to redo any of that inside the cam, so it must by the automatic Windows uploading from my cam. Any input welcome on that. Kodak Z712 IS.


After redoing the focus, geometry and convergence - grayscale and colorations stayed the same as before, basically all by eye on the colorations - here's the results -










[/url]


Slightly overexposed, but appropriate to the brilliance of the runway







[/url]








[/url]


Hard to get the crowd shadow details and still have the diamond sparkle without it white crushing out







[/url]








[/url]


Slight movement blur on this one, mostly on her outfit. But check out those abs!







[/url]


Blur on this one only on her right shoe and at the top of her rack (no not that one, the one she's WEARING...!)







[/url]


----------



## superleo

Me like Bob!!!


Whats your overscan at with the shims now, are you at 2% or so?


----------



## winduptoy

Wow Bob!


You've got that big Mits purrin' like a kitten. I've noticed that you often provide encouraging comments on the screenshots of others. Nice to see some of your stuff.


ps. - shimmage...should copyright that.


- Will


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superleo* /forum/post/15168909
> 
> 
> Me like Bob!!!
> 
> 
> Whats your overscan at with the shims now, are you at 2% or so?



Couldn't quite do 2% without having one of the edges of my CRTs start to show. And if just one edge shows, the other 2 colors become predominant because of that color not being there in that area.


I coulda re-aimed my offending gun, but that woulda required scheimpflug realignment too. So I just let it be.


I am now running at just under 3% all around, per the BluRay HD DVE overscan pattern.



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15170405
> 
> 
> Wow Bob!
> 
> 
> You've got that big Mits purrin' like a kitten. I've noticed that you often provide encouraging comments on the screenshots of others. Nice to see some of your stuff.
> 
> 
> ps. - shimmage...should copyright that.
> 
> 
> - Will




Thanks! Yes, I do like to tinker...











Can't wait to get my glass front surface mirror in there in place of the mylar, but it was more important to do the final shimming if there were going to be a few more months before I woulda had enough time again, which can always be the case around here...


If I had waited more months on this job, the footprint mighta started showing, and that woulda limited me on how much of each CRT face would then be usable -






Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15166825
> 
> 
> very nice, some amazing stuff here
> 
> 
> this one is for Cliffy, the last shots I took of my 1352LC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary










A legacy has passed......... What a great projector that was.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15168531
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]



Damn!!!!! That's HOT!!!!!!! Nice colors!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15171614
> 
> 
> Damn!!!!! That's HOT!!!!!!! Nice colors!!!!!!




Yup, that's Heidi in all her glory. (Well maybe not ALL, I yearn to be standing somewhere behind her, to see where that view would lead...)


Glad you like it! When you gonna have me do your secondary set of 9"ers?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15172397
> 
> 
> Yup, that's Heidi in all her glory. (Well maybe not ALL, I yearn to be standing somewhere behind her, to see where that view would lead...)
> 
> 
> Glad you like it! When you gonna have me do your secondary set of 9"ers?



LOL. I've actually retired my 9" set to my computer area. A Samsung 50" Plasma is in it's place now upstairs. Guess which one has higher light output.











Even funnier is the tubes are almost 3 1/2 years old now on a set that was cranking easily over 8 hours a day on a DAILY basis. Gotta love CRT. That Mits is a great set. Just need to get the color issue fixed hopefully one day. :^)


Cliff


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15172723
> 
> 
> LOL. I've actually retired my 9" set to my computer area. A Samsung 50" Plasma is in it's place now upstairs. Guess which one has higher light output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even funnier is the tubes are almost 3 1/2 years old now on a set that was cranking easily over 8 hours a day on a DAILY basis. Gotta love CRT. That Mits is a great set. Just need to get the color issue fixed hopefully one day. :^)
> 
> 
> Cliff



Cliff, what color issue would that be?


-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15172723
> 
> 
> LOL. I've actually retired my 9" set to my computer area. A Samsung 50" Plasma is in it's place now upstairs. Guess which one has higher light output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even funnier is the tubes are almost 3 1/2 years old now on a set that was cranking easily over 8 hours a day on a DAILY basis. Gotta love CRT. That Mits is a great set. Just need to get the color issue fixed hopefully one day. :^)
> 
> 
> Cliff




My set's nearly 3 years old now, tho in my place it hasn't been the house kid's entertainer, no...


But as I recall you didn't have any screenburn when I saw it in person, and I trust you have been running her at 35-40% up all those 8 hour days, since midpoint on the contrast bargraph is already 80-90% up.


But she can always be regunned at any time needed, and re-set up, and be absolutely brand new again. Literally. The guns will always be available from VDC. That set could last you forever.


Even at twice my set's age, any set that age is still only at cruising age. If yours has been on twice that of normal householding, that makes it only 7 years old now, still only cruising age. If your set is still in the condition it was in when I saw it performing live in your living room a year or 2 ago, I could make your set look like those pix I sent up, no sweat.



Be sure to check for coolant leakage, tho. All Mit HDreadys should have a drip shed installed into them if they don't from the factory, because we have been seeing them leaking coolant for years. If it gets on the multi-layer board beneath the blue gun, it's usually sayanora. The brown single layer boards under the other 2 guns can always be repaired, but usually not the multi-layer green one under the blue gun. The layers get infected and it's usually history.


What color issue does she have?


If anyone wants to see what 7-9 year old CRT tech can REALLY look like, scroll down to post 3065 at this thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=103 



b


----------



## overclkr

Guys, the Mitsu 65815 I have suffers from red push not corrected from the factory. Ken was going to correct the color for me but a special cable is needed. The one he had didn't fit......










Cliff


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15174961
> 
> 
> Guys, the Mitsu 65815 I have suffers from red push not corrected from the factory. Ken was going to correct the color for me but a special cable is needed. The one he had didn't fit......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Are you feeding the mits component?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15174961
> 
> 
> Guys, the Mitsu 65815 I have suffers from red push not corrected from the factory. Ken was going to correct the color for me but a special cable is needed. The one he had didn't fit......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



The factory doesn't correct red push. In fact they resent that we were able to penetrate their serial I2C bus in the first place, and were able to defeat their evil Joe Sixpack-only intentions with our steadfast videophile consciousness.


Their intent is and has always been to not have their sets come out of the factory with anything BUT red push. The first 2 years they had registers in the sm to use to directly fully realign it outa there, in the third year they phased those out, and we needed to go to the mattresses to find another way. Some intrepid geeks much more computer savvy than I will ever be got in there and found a way to realign those sets from then on with the special I2C interface cable, which joined your laptop to your display directly.


If it has PerfectColor, you probably can no longer use the I2C interface on it. That was eventually phased out with PerfectColor, but I do have the I2C interface cable JIC.


However with the right test patterns, I can work with the PC in User menu to get silky smooth color linearity. That's what I have done on my set, with the colors you mentioned, I only had PerfectColor to use and if done correctly it can be done very very well.


As you can see, red push is definitely not making the greens and blues suffer when the fleshtones are prioritized, on my set. Which is essentially why we hate red push, and why it definitely had to go, on my set.


Yours is a xxx15 series, mine is the xxx17 series, only one model year removed from yours, yours being only 1 year older than mine. Yours has virtually the same chassis as mine. I can work exactly the same magic on it.



b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15175028
> 
> 
> Are you feeding the mits component?



The problem occurs on both HDMI and component.


----------



## CaspianM

I bought a Diamond series in 2000 which had the red push.

Those day we opted for attenuator added to the red channel.


Edit: you posted just before me. Mine did have component only.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15174961
> 
> 
> Guys, the Mitsu 65815 I have suffers from red push not corrected from the factory. Ken was going to correct the color for me but a special cable is needed. The one he had didn't fit......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Craig Rounds Did my calibration on my 65817 diamond series and we use the lumagen for all calibration on it. If I take the Lumie out of the chain it is basically a stock set from the factory. With the lumie he got a perfect flat greyscale and the red push was easy to fix. Its been two years and I need to have it touched up. Even the convergence is gone when i take it out. The picture was night and day after I got the Lumagen and Craig worked his Mitsu Magic. I still love this set, i don't care how big it is and the Gloss black finish is sweet!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15175480
> 
> 
> I bought a Diamond series in 2000 which had the red push.
> 
> Those day we opted for attenuator added to the red channel.
> 
> 
> Edit: you posted just before me. Mine did have component only.



Using an attenuator on the DVD input was always pretty straightforward. Using it on the HD input never worked anywhere near as well, and not at all for me. HD seems to have its own color paradigm, that is only partly red push.



b


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15174961
> 
> 
> Guys, the Mitsu 65815 I have suffers from red push not corrected from the factory. Ken was going to correct the color for me but a special cable is needed. The one he had didn't fit......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Cliff, you can correct the red push with the extended color setup in the Mits, not to perfection but much better, try -15 or so


the TV needs custom software loaded by someone like Craig Rounds to really shine its best










-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15176776
> 
> 
> Cliff, you can correct the red push with the extended color setup in the Mits, not to perfection but much better, try -15 or so
> 
> 
> the TV needs custom software loaded by someone like Craig Rounds to really shine its best
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Is the softwear somthing new that Craig does? He never mentioned it to me before. Myabe he did add it since I got the top of line calibration.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15176776
> 
> 
> Cliff, you can correct the red push with the extended color setup in the Mits, not to perfection but much better, try -15 or so
> 
> 
> the TV needs custom software loaded by someone like Craig Rounds to really shine its best
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Just going to -15 on Red in PerfectColor won't be near enough. I tried it on mine. It's going to take a lot more alignment of all of the 6 options - the primaries AND the secondaries - in the PColor section in User to get the kind of colorations I now have on mine. Plus working with the master Color and Tint registers in the sm, they have to be worked with along with the primaries and secondaries in User PColor.


The User Brightness on that set also can't be set at its midpoint in User, you'll lose the black floor if you do, no matter where you set the sm Br setting. The sm Br setting has to stay where it is in sm and run between 40 and 45 in User, rather than the mp of 31.


I also had to work with my Screen setting on Blue on mine, which was causing blue to be invading the black floor. That chassis and mine, I believe starting from the xxx13 line on, were a marked departure from designs that went before, and needed special handling in their calibration. Not all the old ways would work on this new design of chassis, which I believe covered all 3 of the last model years before they stopped making them.


I have no custom or any other kind of software on mine except the factory software it came with - unchanged in any way - nor any internal or external scaling or processing. It's completely stock, completely OOB. It is connected directly from the Dish DVR to my set via component cables, nothing interrupting that. The chain is absolutely direct, and completely simple. DVR to component IP of the set. BluRay or HD DVD to component IP of the set, all directly via component cables. That's it.


If you like the pix I sent up, I have no problem creating that kind of picture for you - the kind in the pix I just sent in on the last page - in any of those 3 model years, or any other year, without a Lumagen and without any custom software, both of which are relatively expensive propositions. I just don't see any need for all that, and have simply found the way to bring the same thing off without all that.


It WAS a puzzle, yes, but not an unsolvable one -



b


----------



## Mr Bob

I just posted this on the curt palme site, in response to a query about rear projected screens.



Athanasios, be sure to have the light path direction accurate for your rear pj'd app. I just worked on a Runco DTV 1000 down in OC, and they had the 2 mirror sys, with the program material firing straight out to the audience from an elevated screen, somewhat higher than the chairs, typical of any movie theater approach. As such the sweet spot sailed right over the heads of the viewers, leaving the top of the screen dimmer than the rest of it when seated properly, eyes below screen.


The final mirror needs to be raised by 2 feet and re-aimed downward, and the scheimpflug possibly realigned, for the sweet spot to be hitting the viewers correctly, and making the screen have the same brightness all over. And of course a complete redo of the focusing, geometry and convergence.


Owners of bars using CRT RPTVs do this all the time, and I am always pointing out to them that they need to tilt down the angle of the screen - of the whole set in that case, just put a 2x4 under the rear of the set, they are bottom heavy and won't fall over with just that - to remedy this situation.


Remember, in a real movie theater the projector is aimed DOWN at the screen, making the material bounce off at just the right angle to keep the sweet spot hitting the audience. On CRT projection, including rear projection in any form, that needs to be done as well if you want the maximum amount of light level hitting the audience.


Ideally my owner in OC should have the screen angled down too, but since it's parallel with the wall in there, I doubt he'll want to go that far...



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud

Cliff vs the screen grab!




















Wow!!!


----------



## superleo

That I would say is VERY CLOSE!


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superleo* /forum/post/15321553
> 
> 
> That I would say is VERY CLOSE!



Pretty much identical, a difference in grayscale seems to be all, and that I imagine is mostly the camera.


----------



## Alan Gouger

I just found out how difficult it is to take good screen shots from a CRT.

Ive conquered the task with digital but this requires all new settings which I am now going to have to experiment. Im using a Canon G3. While the image on my screen looks killer my pictures were way to dark and murky.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/15323800
> 
> 
> I just found out how difficult it is to take good screen shots from a CRT.
> 
> Ive conquered the task with digital but this requires all new settings which I am now going to have to experiment. Im using a Canon G3. While the image on my screen looks killer my pictures were way to dark and murky.



Awesome Alan you got the Marquee up and Running!!! Glad to have another Marquee owner close to me. Hope she gives you years of enjoyment!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/15323800
> 
> 
> I just found out how difficult it is to take good screen shots from a CRT.
> 
> Ive conquered the task with digital but this requires all new settings which I am now going to have to experiment. Im using a Canon G3. While the image on my screen looks killer my pictures were way to dark and murky.



Big dog, even with the stack, I have to put my Kodak in "night mode" in order to get good screenshots. It's all about the exposure baby!










You guys are making me itch for a new round of shots. Hopefully this weekend.










Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

The mad man returns....


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/15324634
> 
> 
> The mad man returns....



How are you bro? Life treating you well? Nice to see you.










Cliffy


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15324352
> 
> 
> I have to put my Kodak in "night mode" in order to get good screenshots. It's all about the exposure baby!



Thanks for the tip Cliff. With your advice I set mine to night mode and it helped but I still have some experimenting to do.

Im running a 7.5 wide scope screen with the Hi Power material. Tomorrow I will change out the material to a matt white. I do not like the HP for CRT use it runs to hot and when taking pictures regardless where I stand the camera picks up on the off angle light drop. Im running contrast a little low, around 45 with this screen. its plenty bright.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/15324634
> 
> 
> The mad man returns....



Hey Don,Im just getting my feet wet again with CRT and its lookin good











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15324256
> 
> 
> Awesome Alan you got the Marquee up and Running!!! Glad to have another Marquee owner close to me. Hope she gives you years of enjoyment!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Hey there Athan. This ones a winner. It has the frankenyokes and some other goodies. I owe a thanks to Galen and Terry.


I have to say i had my doubts a crt could resolve 1080p but its true, Im a believer. This thing is dead on and I have no drift from start up.


I have a lot to learn with screen caps. Im cheating with these, its hard to mess up animation but I have to start somewhere. My goal is to follow in Cliffs footsteps


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/15325741
> 
> 
> 
> I have a lot to learn with screen caps. Im cheating with these, its hard to mess up animation but I have to start somewhere. My goal is to follow in Cliffs footsteps



Very very nice! What movie is this?


----------



## nashou66

Very Nice Alan !!!


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM

Nice shots Alan. They are smooth and detailed with CRT CR.

I can see the drop off across the screen which should be helped with lower gain.


----------



## Gary Murrell

Alan knows how to do it, a 2.40:1 CRT setup, we are a mighty few (save for the stack guys)










-Gary


----------



## Chuchuf

Nice Alan,

Galen had been filling me in on your adventure of getting it set up and I'm glad you made positive progress.


Terry


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15324352
> 
> 
> Big dog, even with the stack, I have to put my Kodak in "night mode" in order to get good screenshots. It's all about the exposure baby!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Thanks for the tip! I'll try that on my next round of shots, with my Kodak.



b


----------



## dropzone7

I have a request for a screenshot or two. I realize this movie has been posted to death but I find it to be one of my best Blu Ray discs. Casino Royale. I have selfish reasons for the request though. I'm in the middle of redoing grayscale and making some other adjustments and I'm just not sure what certain things are supposed to look like. I realize that cameras are all different and accept any screenshots with that caveat of course. I'm specifically interested in seeing the very last scene from the movie where Bond is standing on the stairs with the gun in his hand and says "Bond. James Bond". He is wearing a pinstriped suit and if I turn up the brightness enough to make out the stripes my image looks a little washed out. Even cranking up the gamma doesn't quite get it where I THINK it should be. Just curious what certain scenes look like for you guys.


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15321148
> 
> 
> Cliff vs the screen grab!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!!!



Marla Singer







LOL I like this seen the film many times on DVD the soft grain is rather in my face in real life you'd never see this, but it does look impressive. What format DVD or one of those HD formats??


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/15329926
> 
> 
> I have a request for a screenshot or two. I realize this movie has been posted to death but I find it to be one of my best Blu Ray discs. Casino Royale. I have selfish reasons for the request though. I'm in the middle of redoing grayscale and making some other adjustments and I'm just not sure what certain things are supposed to look like. I realize that cameras are all different and accept any screenshots with that caveat of course. I'm specifically interested in seeing the very last scene from the movie where Bond is standing on the stairs with the gun in his hand and says "Bond. James Bond". He is wearing a pinstriped suit and if I turn up the brightness enough to make out the stripes my image looks a little washed out. Even cranking up the gamma doesn't quite get it where I THINK it should be. Just curious what certain scenes look like for you guys.



I went to the bedroom pulled out Casino Royale dropped it onto the pc DVD player checked the aforementioned part yes I can just make out the threading in his suit. Also I turned off the light in the room, glare! I was still getting white glare from the pc on the edges of the white background while in (paint mode).


I was going to adjust the brightness for the blacks but decided to leave it untouched.


I just viewed the scene on my small CRT Toshiba and your right if the brightness is increased it washes out the blacks especially on my CRT yuck. I could make out the threading in his suit. Brightness is normally set at 69 I set at 70 now I had to turn it up to 89 to see the lining pattern and viewing it from 10 feet away screen size is only a tiny 26” my eye sight is that bad for my age.


Can’t wait for the day I get an LCD video projector.


Weird every time I set a memory mark at the point in chapter 28 region 2 DVD say when Mr. White gets buggered by a bullet to leg it always goes back to where Bond is looking though her purse weird only on this DVD??


[moblie phone rings]

Hello

Mr. White we need to talk.

Who is this?

[Bang!!]

[Arggghhh!!!!] LOL


























YESSSS!










I guess the only true way to A&B (Casino Royale 2006) is in the cinema and you’ve lost that chance now unless it gets another showing alongside (Quantum Of Solace 2008).


It might be intentional I mean you can see a shadow crossing his right shoulder and it might be purposely in shadow I doubt very few would have noticed it in the cinema expect few select few, I never saw this in the cinema nether the new one, looks like DVD viewing early next year.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/15330277
> 
> 
> Marla Singer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL I like this seen the film many times on DVD the soft grain is rather in my face in real life you'd never see this, but it does look impressive. What format DVD or one of those HD formats??



The top is a screenshot from D-Theater and the bottom is a direct screen grab from a Blu-Ray. Both in HD. I imagine the grain would not be as prevalent on the dvd.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/15325706
> 
> 
> How are you bro? Life treating you well? Nice to see you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Life is good.. Family doing well. I've got a week or so of light work. I'm going to try to get down to see you. Man I've been traveling like.. ugh..


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15331143
> 
> 
> The top is a screenshot from D-Theater and the bottom is a direct screen grab from a Blu-Ray. Both in HD. I imagine the grain would not be as prevalent on the dvd.



Oh, the D-Theatre VHS tape yes I've heard about that format petty it didn't get marketed in the UK, tapes are around the same price as laserdisc if I remember rightly. That was impressive I wonder how SuperVHS would fair against D-Theatre the same film say transferred from DVD and Bluray, and it's a shame S-VHS didn't get a shoot at marketing pre-reordered films on the format wow that's going back quite a number of years now.


The first S-VHS I saw a JVC priced around £800.00 or so 1988?


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/15325741
> 
> 
> This ones a winner.



Glad to hear it Alan! Looking forward to your phone call so you can tell me all about it


----------



## Jim Kildare

Congratulations Allan!!!


I was wondering if that was the one you were getting. I wanted it bad but didn't think I could sneek it past the wife.

















Hope you stepped up and got the pinafarinni case, it is awsome.


I am putting together a very similar setup (frankenyokes, MP mods, g90-10f lenses).


I was wondering if you've had any hint of jailbars using Blu Ray, or if you used a processor to adjust it out? ( only shows up on fast retrace, and with a processor you may be using slow and adjusting it out with porch settings).


Again, awesome machine....Congrats.


Jim


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/15333634
> 
> 
> Hey guys! We had a beautiful sunny day, and we couldn't get Alan out of the dark, gloomy basement all day from working on his CRT. I guess that's a devoted videophile. Is this how you guys spend your sunny days?



At least i do, but if some woman as cute as you asked me to come out of the dungeon i think i'd have to say ok !










Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/15333634
> 
> 
> Hey guys! We had a beautiful sunny day, and we couldn't get Alan out of the dark, gloomy basement all day from working on his CRT. I guess that's a devoted videophile. Is this how you guys spend your sunny days?



Nah, not always. We have things like a Wife, children, full time jobs, friends........


You get the jist right?










I bet Alan is extremely happy with the results he has gotten so far with his CRT experience. Nothing like feeding 1080P to a 9" machine that is capable of resolving that resolution and presenting the source in a "non digital" way, but at the same time having a digital input converted to Analog.


I'm really looking foward to his thoughts as this has been a long road for him I know and I have this odd feeling that his experience in the end will be a positive one fo sho.


As much as the digital domain has improved, there are still many benefits to a well setup CRT in the right environment.


When I say right environment, I mean maximizing your light output while retaining as much sharpness as possible and not compromising when it comes to the total package screen included.


You also have to top it off with the right environment and that goes for both digital and CRT.










Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Oh yeah maximizing your light output, I did that once. Man that felt good...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/15330818
> 
> 
> I went to the bedroom pulled out Casino Royale dropped it onto the pc DVD player checked the aforementioned part yes I can just make out the threading in his suit. Also I turned off the light in the room, glare! I was still getting white glare from the pc on the edges of the white background while in (paint mode).
> 
> 
> I was going to adjust the brightness for the blacks but decided to leave it untouched.
> 
> 
> I just viewed the scene on my small CRT Toshiba and your right if the brightness is increased it washes out the blacks especially on my CRT yuck. I could make out the threading in his suit. Brightness is normally set at 69 I set at 70 now I had to turn it up to 89 to see the lining pattern and viewing it from 10 feet away screen size is only a tiny 26” my eye sight is that bad for my age.



Sounds like a Gamma bump is what's called for here. The Moome bumper Cliff uses really completes his scenario, fleshes it out real good on those elusive shadow details, which his setup captures flawlessly.


I just received my HD Fury II equipment, including a Gamma X, will see how that improves my setup as soon as I get some extra time -



b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/15333634
> 
> 
> Hey guys! We had a beautiful sunny day, and we couldn't get Alan out of the dark, gloomy basement all day from working on his CRT. I guess that's a devoted videophile. Is this how you guys spend your sunny days?



That's the same thing I ask myself everytime I have an all day calibration on a great CA sunny day!











I just gotta take a break now and then during a day like that, go outside and see what I'm missing!











Too bad I can't bring that sunshine back into the cave with me! At the end of the day we both sit back and watch a little advanced-quality video and I know I have made a permanent difference for someone, and that's great, but I am also thinking what did I just miss, out there today???











b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/15335523
> 
> 
> Oh yeah maximizing your light output, I did that once. Man that felt good...




Did the mint do it?


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Oh it was indeed Minty.. so fresh, so clean...


----------



## CaspianM

What happened to the second screen shot posted by Alan?


----------



## digital_dilemma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15340304
> 
> 
> What happened to the second screen shot posted by Alan?



You guys are killing me!! I just made the mistake of checking out this thread and now my Optoma HD72 is gonna' suck to watch after seeing some of these beautiful shots! I've got two CRT projectors sitting idle because I don't have room for one and Man did I ever just realize how much more I prefer those beautiful CRT images.


I used to be a tweak freak. I guess I need to get back to gettin' my freak on somehow!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *digital_dilemma* /forum/post/15341212
> 
> 
> You guys are killing me!! I just made the mistake of checking out this thread and now my Optoma HD72 is gonna' suck to watch after seeing some of these beautiful shots! I've got two CRT projectors sitting idle because I don't have room for one and Man did I ever just realize how much more I prefer those beautiful CRT images.
> 
> 
> I used to be a tweak freak. I guess I need to get back to gettin' my freak on somehow!



I have a Optoma 7100 a DC3 720p unit and my XG1352 is a head and shoulder above it.

What CRT's do you have?


----------



## Alan Gouger

This thread is drifting off course, I did not help with my posts but lets get her back on topic. I want to see more Screen Caps. Come on guys get off that couch and grab the cameras. I hope to posts some more soon as well!!


----------



## digital_dilemma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15342240
> 
> 
> I have a Optoma 7100 a DC3 720p unit and my XG1352 is a head and shoulder above it.
> 
> What CRT's do you have?



A Zenith Pro900X and a Zenith Pro2000X (Toshiba P7300U). Frankly, the 900X smokes the 2000X in blacks and color, but the 2000X has better lenses and convergence settings. When I got the 900 it had about 3500 hours on it. I think I've got about 4500 hours on the 900 now. It's not as bright as it used to be so it probably needs to be retubed. I also have a few extra board sets for it, too. I traded some work for the 2000 and have set it up a couple of times. It had maybe 150 hours on it when I got it and probably 300 or so now. I haven't used or fired it up since 2002. I probably should sell it to an enthusiast who needs a spare unit for parts.


----------



## Citation4444

OK, I'll post my first screenshot from my relatively new (to me) Runco DTV-1200/Cine9. If this comes through ok, I'll post some others. This is from CSI Miami. I know this is cheating for color, but what the heck, it's my first attempt. After seeing it in the preview mode, I see it is not as sharp as I see in person, but you can get the idea of the image I'm seeing.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citation4444* /forum/post/15345647
> 
> 
> OK, I'll post my first screenshot from my relatively new (to me) Runco DTV-1200/Cine9. If this comes through ok, I'll post some others. This is from CSI Miami. I know this is cheating for color, but what the heck, it's my first attempt. After seeing it in the preview mode, I see it is not as sharp as I see in person, but you can get the idea of the image I'm seeing.



For a relatively large sized screenshot, that one is entirely acceptable, IMHO. You coulda cheated and sent in a smaller size which would automatically look crisper than a larger size, but you didn't. You chose to go for it with big, and my compliments!


Res goes down as the size of screenshot goes up, and yours is holding its own as a large size shot admirably! Looks very well dialed in, to me. Esp. as broadcast material, and not BD -













b


----------



## Citation4444

Looks like that first one came through ok, so here are some more. Again, all are from CSI Miami. I'll post some from the Blu-ray DVE calibration disk next.


----------



## Mr Bob

Awesome! Nice. Very dimensional -











b


----------



## Citation4444

And a couple of shots from the Blu-ray DVE calibration disk.


























Sorry for cutting off the sides of that last one, but you can probably see that the image is pretty sharp from the text. At least it's sharp on the screen; but doesn't come across as sharp in this screenshot.


If you haven't already guessed, I'm pretty happy with this pj.


Bob


----------



## Gary Murrell

that sucker looks pretty sharp there dude, that last test pattern especially, hope to have my freshly retubed Runco 1101 going soon


what is your video chain?


-Gary


----------



## skylooker1

Bob, that thing looks good. I'll have to get some shots of my DTV-1200. I would like to get it tuned by Ken Whitcomb first, but I think that's going to have to wait for awhile. Gives me some motivation to get some work done on the room.


Did you stick with the moome over the fury2?


MIKE


----------



## nashou66

Very Nice Bob !!! A little more work on color but nice set up job!!! Red needs to e a bit lower I think, the guys face in the back ground i don think is that red. But otherwise nice!!!


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15347491
> 
> 
> Very Nice Bob !!! A little more work on color but nice set up job!!! Red needs to e a bit lower I think, the guys face in the back ground i don think is that red. But otherwise nice!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Is there a way to reduce red when his overscan shot in B&W looks solid?!


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15347491
> 
> 
> Very Nice Bob !!! A little more work on color but nice set up job!!! Red needs to e a bit lower I think, the guys face in the back ground i don think is that red. But otherwise nice!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Thanks for your comments. I have only calibrated the DirecTV input with my Radiance, but in the past I've not noticed much difference between inputs. The gamut, grayscale and gamma is spot on with my measurement setup (in this case a Konica-Minolta CL-200 and CalMAN Pro). I also have an i1Pro and C5, but I generally prefer the results from the CL-200. The primaries on this pj require very little correction with the Radiance's CMS, so all my meters measure pretty close. There are better meters around for sure, but mine generally give good results.


I just set my camera to night mode, turned the flash off, put it on a tripod and snapped the pics. I think it is quite difficult to judge color balance from a screen shot. And, of course, the monitors we are looking at these screenshots with vary as well. But, I do think the screenshots give a pretty good idea of the quality of picture this DTV-1200/Cine9 is capable of putting out.


By the way, I'm projecting on a 110" diag 1.3 gain screen at 1080p60 on all of these screenshots.


Thanks for looking.


Bob


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15347369
> 
> 
> that sucker looks pretty sharp there dude, that last test pattern especially, hope to have my freshly retubed Runco 1101 going soon
> 
> 
> what is your video chain?
> 
> 
> -Gary



My video chain consists of:


Blu-ray/HD-DVD/DirecTV/HTPC>>>3ft HDMI cables>>>Lumagen RadianceXD>>>25ft HDMI>>>moome EXT-FullHD>>>2ft VGA to RGBHV breakout cable>>>DTV-1200 projector.


I also have a HDFury2 (the latest one) and while it is very slightly sharper than the moome, it doesn't work properly when driven from my Radiance. So, unless I find a solution to make the Fury2 work, I'll be sticking with the moome. It has proven to be bulletproof thus far.


Bob


----------



## overclkr

Batman Panasonic AE-3000 1080P Blue Ray


----------



## overclkr

















































Cliffy


----------



## CaspianM

Is this your new toy?

Looks good.


----------



## antorsae

A bit out of focus, but:


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/15350854
> 
> 
> A bit out of focus, but:



link wouldnt open.


Athanasios


----------



## csamos

I thought I would chime in and finally post a few screen shots from my 8500. I realize I need to do a little work to take pictures that more accurately depict what I see on the screen, as some of them are slightly off, but still good.


Here are a few of my favorites, and I have more on my theater page , along with pictures of the theater with its new paint scheme.


The Fifth Element from regular DVD, played through my HD-A35 @ 1080i:




















































































Transformers on HD DVD @ 1080i:


----------



## nashou66

Nice Carl !!! HD144 helped out with the colors, maybe up the brightness a few click for the lower end detail, not too much just a tad.


Athanasios


----------



## csamos

Yeah, I'm still tweaking the calibration a bit, and I'm playing with my Sony Cybershot to figure out the best settings to take accurate screenshots.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15431060
> 
> 
> Nice Carl !!! HD144 helped out with the colors, maybe up the brightness a few click for the lower end detail, not too much just a tad.
> 
> 
> Athanasios


----------



## winduptoy

Can you do manual exposure with the camera? If so, try 2-4 sec @ f:5.6 (ISO80 or 100). Your geometry looks a little wide. Increase your vertical size 10% or so. Do you have a setup disc? DVE HD Basics works really well; The geometry pattern has perfect squares and circles & resolution pattern is great for setting sharpness. Can't wait to see more screenshots!


----------



## winduptoy

BTW, beautiful job on the theater!


----------



## csamos

I thought I had more manual control over my camera (I recently got it), but I can't control exposure or f-stop. I'll have to borrow a better camera and do some testing.


Good call on the geometry being wide. I can get 0 overscan vertically, but I can't get below 3.5% horizontally:











I can adjust the vertical geometry to match the overscan of course:











So is it just not possible to get below ~3.5% horizontal overscan on an 8500 @ 1080i?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15431595
> 
> 
> Can you do manual exposure with the camera? If so, try 2-4 sec @ f:5.6 (ISO80 or 100). Your geometry looks a little wide. Increase your vertical size 10% or so. Do you have a setup disc? DVE HD Basics works really well; The geometry pattern has perfect squares and circles & resolution pattern is great for setting sharpness. Can't wait to see more screenshots!


----------



## csamos

Thanks! I did it all with one friend of mine who is a master carpenter. It took about 10 months, working in our spare time. And 5 years later, I love it even more now than I did at first. We have movie nights at least once a week. We're having one tonight in fact.







And I'm going to start showing the Lord of the Rings trilogy over the course of 3 Saturdays in the near future.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15431609
> 
> 
> BTW, beautiful job on the theater!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *csamos* /forum/post/15432552



Looks like you've got some screenburn from graphics on your screen. You been running stock tickers or news tickers or something?


The lowest section has had some strong black on it for extended periods as well, evidenced by the brighter gray there than on the rest of the screen -











Can't be just 2.35:1 movies on your 1.777777 screen, or the same brighter gray would show up at the top also.



B


----------



## csamos

No, the lower portion is basically unused phosphor from the set not being set up mechanically well for the first part of its life. After I got it, I could never get blue to converge properly along the left and top. I finally did a complete initialization from scratch and discovered the blue tube was pushed very far up, hence the convergence was working very hard and could never get the top converged. Once I properly centered the raster on the blue tube and did a complete magnetics and mechanical setup, it exposed that unused phosphor, and the line across the bottom. It's highly annoying, but the only time you really see it is if there's a bright or white image that spans across that lower portion. And I'm probably the only one it really bugs.


I also have a couple Halo 2 burn-in problems from my ex-gf's son falling asleep and leaving Halo paused for 10 hours at a time.


Both of these problems only affect the blue tube, so at some point (hopefully soon) I'll put in a new blue tube.












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15432764
> 
> 
> Looks like you've got some screenburn from graphics on your screen. You been running stock tickers or news tickers or something?
> 
> 
> The lowest section has had some strong black on it for extended periods as well, evidenced by the lighter gray there than on the rest of the screen -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B


----------



## Mr Bob

All of you who have Dish Network need to worry. Be afraid.


Every time you go into a Guide menu, or any of many of their menus, to spend some time figuring out what you want to see, or programming your DVR, or deciding what to watch from it, etc -


That "dish" emblem up in the upper left corner is burning into your phosphors every SECOND it is up there. It is at 100% Torch Mode, and is grinding away at your phosphors at all times you are in that Guide or Menu mode.


I have seen the results of this screenburn, and it it not pretty. I have tried to call them and talk to them about it, and every time I do, they say they will get it to the right person, and that's the last I hear of it. Time after time after time.


I currently have a call in to my PrePaid Legal attorney about this, and will be sending him a concise description of the problem as soon as I get a break here. This will be to advise them that if they don't stop this dangerous practice - screenburn, or uneven phosphor wear/aging - I will be inquiring into the formation of a class action lawsuit regarding this is permanent and easily correctable practice of theirs. All they need to do is come up with transparent, mid-light-level graphics that don't always stay in the same position, day and night.


The resulting screenburn, OTOH, is uncorrectable in this kind of case. As far as aging of your phosphors go, on both CRT and plasma, it is totally uncorrectable. The only correction is to age the lighter-aged phosphors to match the aged ones. This of course decreases the lifespan of your phosphors across the board.


Be afraid. Be very afraid -



Mr Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *csamos* /forum/post/15432840
> 
> 
> No, the lower portion is basically unused phosphor from the set not being set up mechanically well for the first part of its life. After I got it, I could never get blue to converge properly along the left and top. I finally did a complete initialization from scratch and discovered the blue tube was pushed very far up, hence the convergence was working very hard and could never get the top converged. Once I properly centered the raster on the blue tube and did a complete magnetics and mechanical setup, it exposed that unused phosphor, and the line across the bottom. It's highly annoying, but the only time you really see it is if there's a bright or white image that spans across that lower portion. And I'm probably the only one it really bugs.
> 
> 
> I also have a couple Halo 2 burn-in problems from my ex-gf's son falling asleep and leaving Halo paused for 10 hours at a time.
> 
> 
> Both of these problems only affect the blue tube, so at some point (hopefully soon) I'll put in a new blue tube.



Understandable, but this does not address the section immediately ABOVE that previously unused section of your blue gun. It is darkened and brownish, on what looks like all 3 colors.


Lots of black text going across your screen, on a white background? About half again as tall as the virgin section at the bottom, it's brownish there much more so than elsewhere on the screen...



b


----------



## csamos

I think what you're seeing is my camera's inability to take a good picture of the screen. Aside from the aforementioned Halo burn-in and unused phosphor along the bottom, any solid shade of gray looks uniform. I took about 8 different pictures twidling settings on my camera and the resulting images were all over the place with sections that were darker, horizontal black areas, etc. I'll see if I can get a good camera and take an accurate image of all 3 solid colors, white, etc.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15433066
> 
> 
> Understandable, but this does not address the section immediately ABOVE that previously unused section of your blue gun. It is darkened and brownish, on what looks like all 3 colors.
> 
> 
> Lots of black text going across your screen, on a white background? About half again as tall as the virgin section at the bottom, it's brownish there much more so than elsewhere on the screen...
> 
> 
> 
> b


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15432764
> 
> 
> The lowest section has had some strong black on it for extended periods as well, evidenced by the brighter gray there than on the rest of the screen -
> 
> 
> B



So black sidebars will make make the sides lighter as opposed to darker?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15433156
> 
> 
> So black sidebars will make make the sides lighter as opposed to darker?



Yup.



b


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15433234
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> b



Interesting. My ex's tv has some dark screenburn on the sides, is the cure black side panels to lighten it up?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15433383
> 
> 
> Interesting. My ex's tv has some dark screenburn on the sides, is the cure black side panels to lighten it up?



Sounds like. The trick is to make sure of the positioning involved. You don't want to wind up with lines of demarcation, either!



b


----------



## lordcloud

Panasonic AE 3000










VS.


Screen grab


----------



## lordcloud

Round 2











VS.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Interesting. My ex's tv has some dark screenburn on the sides, is the cure black side panels to lighten it up?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15433234
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> b



Of course you won't be lightening ANYTHING UP. You will only be dumbing down the rest of your screen, which has not gotten as dark as the other areas yet.


To mend any screenburn that is even halfway mendable, you ALWAYS have to DARKEN, not lighten. Further aging your tubes.



b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15436177
> 
> 
> Round 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.



Look at the detail lost in this shot, i wonder how a CRT would look of this shot VS the Screen grab.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

I'd like to invite all CRT triple-gun enthusiasts over to the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV!" thread, where we just hit our 150th page! CRT is not dead, not by a long shot!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=150 



Mr Bob


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15436447
> 
> 
> Look at the detail lost in this shot, i wonder how a CRT would look of this shot VS the Screen grab.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I'm wondering if the lost detail is more the over exposure as well as detail lost from taking a pic of the screen.


----------



## CaspianM

It is hard to say. I could be the dcam to some extent clipping the black and white both.

The grabs look too dark IMO too.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15439350
> 
> 
> It is hard to say. I could be the dcam to some extent clipping the black and white both.
> 
> The grabs look too dark IMO too.



No way look at the orange color of the clown lips compared to the Screen grab. the colors and brightness look correct to me.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/15439350
> 
> 
> could be the dcam to some extent clipping the black and white both.



Oh, you mean digital cam! There is a DCAM convergence circuit in the Hitachis, I thought you meant that!












b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15436447
> 
> 
> Look at the detail lost in this shot, i wonder how a CRT would look of this shot VS the Screen grab.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



If your sys has RGB, the shadow detail on ANY display will be helped by a gamma bump, whether it's CRT or not. You might try the GammaX, I hear it's really good, have yet to hook it up in my sys, but 6-gun Cliff swears by his Moome version. A gamma bump card or outboard box elevates the shadow detail ONLY, while leaving the blacks totally alone, keeping them crystal clear and trasparent. Unlike Br, which elevates all of it, graying out the blacks.


See my website cover page for a link to that, also to where you can equip your set with it even if you don't have RGB native on your display -



b


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15436447
> 
> 
> Look at the detail lost in this shot, i wonder how a CRT would look of this shot VS the Screen grab.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



yeah, don't know if it is the camera, but those pics suck, the whites are clipped and the blacks are crushed, the greyscale is off, ringing is out the roof as well










-Gary


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15436447
> 
> 
> Look at the detail lost in this shot, i wonder how a CRT would look of this shot VS the Screen grab.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Its not because of the digital projector. It could be the camera indeed.

Here is a digital projector screenshot:
 

By shaolin95 

White balance is off in the pic but at least you can use it to compare the detail.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis Gabriel Gerena* /forum/post/15440929
> 
> 
> Its not because of the digital projector. It could be the camera indeed.
> 
> White balance is off in the pic but at least you can use it to compare the detail.



it may still be becasue of the projector though doubtful, you have a different projector than the one the shot was taken from. Although, yours is 720p vs the Panny being 1080p, even though from my visit to your home I couldn't tell it was "only" 720.


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

Totally forgot your nickname my friend!

Hope you are doing fine and remember, any time you come near Spanish Fork feel free to drop by to watch a movie.

Its looking better now after some extra tweaks.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15440844
> 
> 
> yeah, don't know if it is the camera, but those pics suck, the whites are clipped and the blacks are crushed, the greyscale is off, ringing is out the roof as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



The pics of the PJ are Cliff's, of the Panasonic AE3000 he had. So cliff knows how to take screen shots, but i was just commenting on how the screen grab i think looks like a crt screen shot would(at least of cliffs stack).


Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15443029
> 
> 
> The pics of the PJ are Cliff's, of the Panasonic AE3000 he had. So cliff knows how to take screen shots, but i was just commenting on how the screen grab i think looks like a crt screen shot would(at least of cliffs stack).
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Athan of course










I know that Cliff knows video and knows how to take good screenshots, I am blaming the camera here










Cliff I agree, we need the same shots on the stack










-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis Gabriel Gerena* /forum/post/15440929
> 
> 
> Its not because of the digital projector. It could be the camera indeed.
> 
> Here is a digital projector screenshot:
> 
> 
> By shaolin95
> 
> White balance is off in the pic but at least you can use it to compare the detail.



I was looking at his shots, that 3000 is a looker for sure, check this out:




















-Gary


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

Hi!

I think those are my screenshots right? If they are then its actually an Infocus 7210.









Im actually about to take some more images now that I got the color to be more accurate after long sessions of tweaking and playing with avisynth.

Regards


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis Gabriel Gerena* /forum/post/15518420
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I think those are my screenshots right? If they are then its actually an Infocus 7210.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im actually about to take some more images now that I got the color to be more accurate after long sessions of tweaking and playing with avisynth.
> 
> Regards



I don't know Luis


they came from the shaolin95 link you gave and were mixed in with the other 3000 shots










I have no idea what they are







I had assumed more 3000 shots


-Gary


----------



## nashou66

Gary i cant wait till you get your 1209/Runco 1100 up and running !

*Marquee Bellow Quest for new Manufacturer!!* 


Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/15519249
> 
> 
> Gary i cant wait till you get your 1209/Runco 1100 up and running !
> 
> *Marquee Bellow Quest for new Manufacturer!!*
> 
> 
> Athanasios



thanks Athan, me too, more than anyone can know










-Gary


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15518629
> 
> 
> I don't know Luis
> 
> 
> they came from the shaolin95 link you gave and were mixed in with the other 3000 shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what they are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had assumed more 3000 shots
> 
> 
> -Gary



The following links have some of those images and a few more....they are indeed from my beloved Infocus 7210.

I am glad to read you like them.








http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=308 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=346 

The images in the links above are previous to my new calibration though.


Regards


----------



## Gary Murrell

RS20, AVS Member shiznit:


















































-Gary


----------



## overclkr

Lookin' good. I need to get my ass back into this thread. I've been concentrating on so many other things lately that this thread kind of got put on the backburner for me.


That's ok though cause I'm gonna be doin' something soon that is gonna definitlely WARRANT screen shots FO SHO!!!!!!!!































Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11491611
> 
> 
> I'd hit it!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the colors in this one.



Ahhhhh, gonna be time to bring back the glory soon.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cliff make it a new movie I might now have not seen. You always take so many pictures, I like to download them and put them back into video format.







Just kidding..


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15536377
> 
> 
> RS20, AVS Member shiznit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



These are very very nice. I'd have to see it in action to know if I could live with it though.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/15555648
> 
> 
> These are very very nice. I'd have to see it in action to know if I could live with it though.



I have to agree, they look very CRTish not overly sharp, nice black levels and great natural looking flesh tone.


Mike


----------



## Gary Murrell

I will know soon enough, look to be getting my review sample very soon


-Gary


----------



## justlnluck

What screen is being used for this setup?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15518325
> 
> 
> I was looking at his shots, that 3000 is a looker for sure, check this out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

Im sorry I didnt post the info but I posted two links to the original post with all my recent pics a few posts above.

Basically this is the info:

Infocus 7210

Screen size 120" wide

Screen Type: Wilson Art Designer White Laminate

HTPC driven.


Thanks


----------



## justlnluck

Wow Luis, I am seriously impressed with that picture!







I have ordered an Epson 6100 and I am trying to figure out what screen to use. Where did you order that Wilson Laminate? How did you mount it on a wall?


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

Thanks...I actually got better color accuracy now so I am loving it for sure. 


You can get it from HomeDepot or Lowes but in my case it was cheaper and WAY faster at only 2days compared to weeks for HD or Lowes, to get it from a local counter top company.

I got the 5x10 but they also got the common 4x8 and then larger 5x11 and 5x12.

I didnt do any special mount for it just nailed it to the wall and its pretty flat although it does take some effort due to its size and weight.



Here are a couple of pics I just took. Since this is a CRT area I will post the rest in the under 3k digital section.









 

By shaolin95 
 

By shaolin95


----------



## winduptoy

Here's a few from TDK.


----------



## plain fan

Is the epson 6100 still available? I couldn't find it anywhere on some of the avs' advertiser sites.


----------



## lordcloud

I like these a lot


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15518325
> 
> 
> I was looking at his shots, that 3000 is a looker for sure, check this out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Lots of noise in these pics. Not sure if it's the camera.


For Pic #1- look at the jackets the clowns are wearing


For Pic #2- look at the yellow background on the R side of the pic


For Pic #3- look closely at the skin.


----------



## DVD MAN

This is the best I can get these days.


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15655760
> 
> 
> Lots of noise in these pics. Not sure if it's the camera.
> 
> 
> For Pic #1- look at the jackets the clowns are wearing
> 
> 
> For Pic #2- look at the yellow background on the R side of the pic
> 
> 
> For Pic #3- look closely at the skin.



Those are older pics and I you dont mind I am using a digital, I can post the better looking new ones right here....(at least they look better to my eyes).









The first one you mentioned is not mine though.


----------



## huggy1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JacquesKallis* /forum/post/15682038
> 
> 
> Damn, I really need to calibrate BOTH my 909 and my camera. The difference in shadow detail is striking. Unfortunately I have no way to tweak the gamma from the PS3.




Hey ,Is that your real name or are you a fellow S.A cricket fan?


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JacquesKallis* /forum/post/15682038
> 
> 
> Damn, I really need to calibrate BOTH my 909 and my camera. The difference in shadow detail is striking. Unfortunately I have no way to tweak the gamma from the PS3.



Sure you do. You have to convert to analog in order to feed your Barco 909 and you're likely (hopefully) using the HDMI output of the PS3 as it looks a lot better than component, so this means you're using something like an *HDfury2* so just add a *GammaX* or something similar and you're done.


Kal


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/15683272
> 
> 
> Sure you do. You have to convert to analog in order to feed your Barco 909 and you're likely (hopefully) using the HDMI output of the PS3 as it looks a lot better than component, so this means you're using something like an *HDfury2* so just add a *GammaX* or something similar and you're done.
> 
> 
> Kal



HDMI, along with lossless audio and 1080p are riding the biggest hype train in the HT market. Component will be fine on an "analouge" device.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15705589
> 
> 
> HDMI, along with lossless audio and 1080p are riding the biggest hype train in the HT market. Component will be fine on an "analouge" device.



This is just ridiculous. You don't have the eyes, ears or gear capable of showing that it is more than just hype.


----------



## nidi

HD-SDI then !!










Michael


----------



## nidi

speaking of HD-SDI,


does anyone have the HD-SDI input board once available for the Marquee ?


last time I check, it was still avaiable for around $3500


Michael


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nidi* /forum/post/15707813
> 
> 
> speaking of HD-SDI,
> 
> 
> does anyone have the HD-SDI input board once available for the Marquee ?
> 
> 
> last time I check, it was still avaiable for around $3500
> 
> 
> Michael



me and a few guys have been thinking about trying to setup HD-SDI and projectors (Andy and Greg Eisemann) we come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time


HD-SDI only handles 720p or 1080i or 1080p/24, neither of these is ideal for CRT setups, 1080p/60 takes dual link HD-SDI


feed HD-SDI into a scaler and enjoy, direct to a CRT won't jive IMHO


-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15709421
> 
> 
> me and a few guys have been thinking about trying to setup HD-SDI and projectors (Andy and Greg Eisemann) we come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time
> 
> 
> HD-SDI only handles 720p or 1080i or 1080p/24, neither of these is ideal for CRT setups, 1080p/60 takes dual link HD-SDI
> 
> 
> feed HD-SDI into a scaler and enjoy, direct to a CRT won't jive IMHO
> 
> 
> -Gary



Here is Moonjong SDI board, i think someone had one for sale, the one in this pic does not have the SDI chip.










The Moonjong card has a rs232 connection for changing the scaling, so basicly it wasa buyilt in VP processor for the Marquee.


Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby

If your using hd-sdi direct to the projector do you lose things like menus and so forth? If so it would make it pita to operate.


Mike


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/15706078
> 
> 
> This is just ridiculous. You don't have the eyes, ears or gear capable of showing that it is more than just hype.



Not saying there's no benefit/improvement, just that it's overstated/overrated.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15750000
> 
> 
> Not saying there's no benefit/improvement, just that it's overstated/overrated.



The improved audio experience of TrueHD and DTS HD MA is readily apparent on great audio equipment, you will hate to listen to anything less.


As for 1080p, again, large screen sizes and close viewing distances demand this.


HDMI is a pain in the bum, but even I saw improvements in a cleaner signal over component, even on a analogue display device.


So no, there are real benefits to be had for those that need or want the best.


Do you think Blu-ray is overrated?


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/15750495
> 
> 
> The improved audio experience of TrueHD and DTS HD MA is readily apparent on great audio equipment, you will hate to listen to anything less.
> 
> 
> As for 1080p, again, large screen sizes and close viewing distances demand this.
> 
> 
> HDMI is a pain in the bum, but even I saw improvements in a cleaner signal over component, even on a analogue display device.
> 
> 
> So no, there are real benefits to be had for those that need or want the best.
> 
> 
> Do you think Blu-ray is overrated?



The only benefit of HDMI is the fact that it carries audio with one cable. The improvement in video quality is negligible on an analoge dislay (i.e. CRT), and variable on a digital display. 1080p on a digital display is equal to 1080i on a analoge display with the exception of 1080p/60fps (but there is really no media to support this).

1080i will not look as good on a digital display, because many have low quality deinterlacers which cause resolution loss with fast motion.


With lossless audio, again there's an improvement, but suffers from the law of diminishing returns when compared to lossy audio. You pay for an inch to get a foot. If you can't live without the extra inch, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, you're better off waiting until it becomes more economic.


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/15750495
> 
> 
> The improved audio experience of TrueHD and DTS HD MA is readily apparent on great audio equipment, you will hate to listen to anything less.
> 
> 
> As for 1080p, again, large screen sizes and close viewing distances demand this.
> 
> 
> HDMI is a pain in the bum, but even I saw improvements in a cleaner signal over component, even on a analogue display device.
> 
> 
> So no, there are real benefits to be had for those that need or want the best.
> 
> 
> Do you think Blu-ray is overrated?



oh, yeah. Blu-ray is not overrated. I own blu-ray and would never go back to SD.


----------



## WTS

Wow, you don't think HDMI is better than component when viewed on a CRT, I take it you've never seen a hi-end crt projector then have you?


----------



## csamos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15753402
> 
> 
> The only benefit of HDMI is the fact that it carries audio with one cable. The improvement in video quality is negligible on an analoge dislay (i.e. CRT), and variable on a digital display. 1080p on a digital display is equal to 1080i on a analoge display with the exception of 1080p/60fps (but there is really no media to support this).
> 
> 1080i will not look as good on a digital display, because many have low quality deinterlacers which cause resolution loss with fast motion.
> 
> 
> With lossless audio, again there's an improvement, but suffers from the law of diminishing returns when compared to lossy audio. You pay for an inch to get a foot. If you can't live without the extra inch, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, you're better off waiting until it becomes more economic.



There's actually one big benefit to using HDMI from a Blu-ray or HD DVD player. That's the only way you can get regular DVDs upscaled to 1080p. Component video outputs will not pass an upscaled image.


And as Gino pointed out, the benefits to the new HD audio codecs are very apparent with good audio equipment. The audio improvement in my own theater is pretty amazing comparing the lossy and lossless formats of the same movie. Even my non-audiophile gf could tell the difference.


----------



## ss4vegita




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/15753455
> 
> 
> Wow, you don't think HDMI is better than component when viewed on a CRT, I take it you've never seen a hi-end crt projector then have you?




I meant rear projection. Sorry, I should have been more specific.


----------



## overclkr

I'm gonna have to watch this again soon. Great flick.









































































































Cliffy


----------



## kal

Beautiful shots Cliffy! I didn't know Fear and Loathing was on Blu-ray... just checked it out at Amazon. $37.49. Yikes! Damned.










Kal


----------



## Matts

Yes I agree great shots Cliffy. Especially this one. Man that deep black is nice to see.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15753402
> 
> 
> 
> With lossless audio, again there's an improvement, but suffers from the law of diminishing returns when compared to lossy audio. You pay for an inch to get a foot. If you can't live without the extra inch, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, you're better off waiting until it becomes more economic.



Haven't you got that a little backwards? I LOVE getting a foot when I'm only paying for an inch!













b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ss4vegita* /forum/post/15754447
> 
> 
> I meant rear projection. Sorry, I should have been more specific.



I agree, tho it may be my brand. My CRT RPTV Mit's HDMI SUCKS bigtime compared to the component inputs of the same thing, which deliver a glorious picture.


Sometime soon I'll be HU'ing my HD Fury II, hopefully that will be a big improvement. Saw one at work on a Barco Cine 7, was very impressed.



b


----------



## Mr Bob

Paused DVR, component fed directly from Dish VIP 622.


This is Fox's native broadcast 720p upconverted by the DVR to 1080i, then sent directly to the set via component, no interruptions and no HDMI involved whatsoever.


It's actually from the 1TB hard drive I had transferred the episode onto for storage from the DVR itself, paused, arriving back from the hard drive to the DVR via USB, then sent from the DVR to the set via component cables, the same ones Comcast uses.


You can see the blue light from the hard drive in the upper right corner.


Hit F11 to see more of the pic itself. Tho no match for a G90, the actual pic on my screen is still crisper than it appears here. I still can't seem to capture that crispness on my cam like you guys do, for my screenshots -











But that higher level of crispness than here is definitely there in my images on the screen, to my naked eyes -



b










[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15763388
> 
> 
> I agree, tho it may be my brand. My CRT RPTV Mit's HDMI SUCKS bigtime compared to the component inputs of the same thing, which deliver a glorious picture.



I don't understand Bob - you're saying that your Mits CRT RPTV came with an HDMI input out of the box? What year did you buy it? I though all RPTV manufactures got out of CRT based TVs way before 2005 when HDMI started.


Kal


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/15769983
> 
> 
> I don't understand Bob - you're saying that your Mits CRT RPTV came with an HDMI input out of the box? What year did you buy it? I though all RPTV manufactures got out of CRT based TVs way before 2005 when HDMI started.
> 
> 
> Kal



Kal My Mitsubishi 65817 Diamond series has HDMi and Firewire connections, i run a lumagen to it Via HDMI. I think i got it in 2004 IIRC.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/15769983
> 
> 
> I don't understand Bob - you're saying that your Mits CRT RPTV came with an HDMI input out of the box? What year did you buy it? I though all RPTV manufactures got out of CRT based TVs way before 2005 when HDMI started.
> 
> 
> Kal




Nep. Mit actually had a model year with DVI before they had HDMI.


Mine - WS 73517 - was their last model year, believe I bought it in '06, but was a holdout closeout from Tweeter.com, possibly a year after Mit stopped making them. DK the exact year they stopped making CRTs, but HDMI was there on mine along with firewire, and DVI was there on the x30s, last year of the Pioneer Elite CRTs, before they also disco'd them. Pio never went to HDMI on their CRTs.


I think every brand of CRT triple-gun RPTV had at least DVI before they were all disco'd. I think some had HDMI and some didn't.



b


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Hi Bob,


Just an fyi since mine is WS48313. I purchased it 2003. It has a DVI interface. I can't believe that our rptv set can understand HDCP signal. I mentioned this last year at Curt Palme's forum. The connection is from HDDVD's hdmi out to the connector shown below and directly to the back of my Mits WS 48313's DVI in. There were lots of advertisement that any HDTV set bought before 2005 will not be able to understand HDCP. Accidentally, it worked. I was able to watch DVD at 1080i.




















Just an fyi










EDIT: Found the thread. Oops, it was 2 years ago. LOL









http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...highlight=mits


----------



## imprez25

here are some not so realistic screen shots, as these hardly represent what I am seeing on the screen. What I see is much better!

Projector: Sony 1251q w/ 1200hours

Screen: 2.40:1 BOC cloth 111"x47.5"

Source: Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player

Transcoder: X2VGA2


300 hd dvd 1080i




























Big Lebowski HD DVD 1080i


















All photos were taken with a panasonic tz5 point and shoot. Some have been adjusted to raise the brightness up to represent a closer to screen like image.


----------



## winduptoy

Nice job on the geometry! Do you have any gamma adjustment? If so try turning it up a bit. Otherwise you're facing the same problem as ths rest of us in CRTland; screen dynamic range exceeds the camera's. Try more exp. in camera (1 or 2 stops) and don't do any brightness adjustments afterwards. Should yield better blacks in screenshots.


----------



## imprez25

Thanks! I cheated setting the geometry up. I used a LCD projector with a test pattern displayed. I then displayed the same test pattern through the 1251 and converged green to it. Then I converged red and blue to green. Very quick and easy. I was able to use very little zone convergence too. Those pictures were taken within about 5-10 minutes of me turning the projector on, so it is very stable.


No, unfortunately I don't have any gamma adjustment, I know I need it!


As for the camera it is a good point and shoot, but it lacks manual adjustments. I will have to try with my other camera with manual adjustments.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/15774308
> 
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> 
> Just an fyi since mine is WS48313. I purchased it 2003. It has a DVI interface. I can't believe that our rptv set can understand HDCP signal. I mentioned this last year at Curt Palme's forum. The connection is from HDDVD's hdmi out to the connector shown below and directly to the back of my Mits WS 48313's DVI in. There were lots of advertisement that any HDTV set bought before 2005 will not be able to understand HDCP. Accidentally, it worked. I was able to watch DVD at 1080i.
> 
> 
> Just an fyi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Found the thread. Oops, it was 2 years ago. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...highlight=mits



I found out on an install I was doing recently that HDCP only applies to mid-connected gear, not to the display itself. Since it's only there for copy protection, going directly from a source to a display doesn't have to involve HDCP.


So going thru the Pioneer avr, the BD player DID switch and accurately transfer the 1080p signal to the plasma display involved, but the Comcast box did NOT. I called Pioneer about it, and found that certain brands/types of gear will trigger their internal HDCP guarding system and others will not, as it goes thru their avr's switching. On the Comcast box it stopped the signal cold, would not allow it thru the switching via HDMI, we had to go to component to get the signal thru the amp. But the BDP had no problem at all with HDMI, it flew thru the amp's switching no sweat.


Going directly to the display without trying to go thru the amp, the Comcast STB had no problem with HDMI at all at 1080p. Picture was glorious. But would not go thru the amp's switching without being stopped cold and denied transit thru the amp.


Lovely...



b


----------



## imprez25

I used my manual camera for these. The resolution isn't as high on the camera 5mp but, there is more detail in the pictures. the image on the screen doesn't have the blue push that the camera was seeing.

casino hd dvd 1080i


----------



## Mr Bob

Tightens up the pic real good, on ALL CRT RPTV tech, from the increased exposure of the CRT faces to the viewscreen, resulting in truly increased pixel density - done from scratch mechanically - and a picture you can sit a lot closer to afterwards.


All credit goes to Owen for this mod, I am only following his lead of several years ago, which I missed at that time. Wish I'd noticed it a lot sooner!


This mod allows me to sit 20% closer to my screen - from 10' down to 8', expanding my field of view into the content itself a lot more and increasing my perceived picture size by 20%.


Unfortunately some older sets can't have this done because the aging footprint is already too strong on the CRT faces. If yours is an older set and the overscan was already reduced years ago via the sm, you absolutely can't do it now, because of that footprint.


But if your older set has never been o'scan reduced via sm, you may be able to.








[/url]


3 thicknesses of 1x2, glued together and to the floor of the ledge, partially blackened, showing long bolts that replaced the original short ones. Using chimney bolts, were the only ones I could find w. the same thread. Bolt end from underside blackened along with red screwheads








[/url]


2 doorstops, leveling the stack for horizon correctness. IR sensor cage board edge and bolt ends from underside blackened









[/url]


underside








[/url]


----------



## Gary Murrell

very nice Bob, this gives you more phosphur usage correct?


man oh I wish CRT RPTV wasn't dead!










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15844780
> 
> 
> very nice Bob, this gives you more phosphur usage correct?
> 
> 
> man oh I wish CRT RPTV wasn't dead!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Yeah, they really didn't optimize what they had to work with when they designed these things. I have yet to see one that wasn't overscanned fairly dramatically (should say horrifically!) OOB, nor one which fully optimized the area of the CRT face used OOB, which yes is what this mod is all about.


On front pj we get to stage the throw distance when the unit is originally set up, and along with making sure there are no angles the beam goes thru while traversing the lens and a half a dozen other things, this one thing can always be optimized as long as we have control over how far away the pj is from the screen, factored in with the size of the image on each CRT face. We also get to aim the red and blue guns mechanically horizontally, for the optimum centering of the image on each of those guns. This also contributes to how much of the CRT face gets to be used.


Not so on CRT RPTV OOB, tho with a little perseverance and a LOT of patience, reigning in that overscan and optimizing the amount of CRT face utilized CAN be done with that genre as well.



As for lamenting the demise of CRT RPTV, I second your emotions on that!











But check this out - CRT RPTV can go on for a long long time, even tho they are not being produced new anymore. CRT that has been well taken care of lasts and lasts and lasts, just like the energizer bunny. On CRT RPTV, properly cared for by their owners I keep them looking better than new for 10 years and more all the time.


Now to the good part - LOTS of CRT RPTVs are being dumped on the used market for pennies on the dollar right now, with Joe Sixpack jumping on the retail bandwagon as he always does, in this case for plasma and LCD flat panel. Which as we all know need to be very expensive to even match what CRT has always been capable of.


EXCELLENT CRT RPTVs can be had for song right now on the used market, just gotta find them before they get snapped up. And via UEC, for refurbed brand new Hitachis, which calibrate up to an absolutely superb picture. If you've seen that fabulous closeup of that gorgeous woman taken by Owen on his tricked out 57" Hitachi CRT - which has the mod above, among others - you know what I mean. Again, gotta get them when they come in at UEC, because they fly right out again, often the same day.


As long as they have not used those sets as the family baby sitter, with it on 16 hours a day or at Torch Mode all the time, and have been careful about screenburn - just take an all white pattern with you to double-check any questions about that - you can scarf an incredible deal on CRT RPTV right now. IMHO, it's the deal of the century, esp. when you can get it cleaned and calibrated - and thus completely restored, often better than new - and have HD like you would not believe!


I started the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread 2 years ago, and it's still going strong, having passed its 150th page recently. Here on this thread you find afficianados who are dedicated to the really big picture; and to CRT for the most part, as being one of the best ways to get there. Over there you find afficianados who can't afford the really big stuff like you have here, but are just as dedicated to CRT as one of the best video formats ever made, and are willing to trick their sets out beyond measure, to get as close as they possibly can to the best pic available.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=164 


I'm still itching to get my hands on Cliff's 65" Mit with the 9" guns!











b


----------



## Mr Bob

In view of Gary's statement, I've decided to post screenshots from my recent calibration tour in Baltimore. By the time you've seen all of them, I think it will be clear as to why there is absolutely no need to give up on CRT RPTVs - why under new videophile ownership they can be trusted to live on and on for years to come, properly taken care of and given the proper care and feeing.


Here's what's been recently posted over at the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV!" thread -




Just got home tonite from the weeklong Baltimore tour. There were 4 big screens to work on and only 7 days to do them in, so tonite is the first time I have had a chance to breathe a bit and contemplate which pix to send up.


These are the Befores of Steve Mock's Pioneer Elite 710. I will get others up here soon, including the shimming op and Afters -


The most noticeable deficiencies in his display were the optics needing cleaning, the pic was dim and overscanned, and of course the horrendous grayscale. He was nearing the edge on putting up with that pesky overscan, and the shimming op finally gave him the relief he's been looking for.


The purple pix were taken the first night, which was when the grayscale had to be done because of little light isolation in the daytime. The optics cleaning had to be done before the grayscale could be done.


The structure shots were taken the next day, after the grayscale had already been dealt with and restored. You can do the structure with little light iso, but not the grayscale.


Optics dirty








[/url]








[/url]


Grayscale horrendous








[/url]








[/url]


Pic after cleaning and grayscale but before restoring of the original light levels, along with other user settings needing to be way off center to deliver decent fleshtones, but before the rest of the work, where those got recentered









[/url]



huge overscan - observe the upper left corner, where the graphics are cut off at the knees. That's just the top, the bottom was the same -








[/url]


OOB overscan and uncentered positioning








[/url]


still grossly overscanned OOB, but at least re-centered before taking it in via the shimming op








[/url]


Dim pic at Black Level zero, requiring increasing it way out of spec








[/url]








[/url]



More soon -


b


----------



## Mr Bob

Same display as from the pix above, sent in earlier. More about the cal itself later -


b

















[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]








[/url]


Sorry about the slight focussing blurriness on this one and on the Lilu pic above; it was camera error, not display error, display stayed the same in all the After shots. The colorations were very delicate, so I decided to keep it








[/url]








[/url]


2 different exposure settings on cam, display remains the same. Cam's up/downloaded dynamic range nowhere near as good as display's, as evidenced best on the fur hitting white crush in the second pic while the guy's backside is still challenged for shadow detail. The display had no problem with getting all of that right, as the settings on the display never changed yet showed it all when the best parts of both pix are observed.


The camera/computer upload/imageshack hosting/download to this thread - not so much








[/url]








[/url]


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Angelo M* /forum/post/15943634
> 
> 
> Wow, Mr Bob,
> 
> Those photos really show what rpcrt can be in the hands of a pro! How old is that set?



Circa 1999-2000. Not "old" at all, in the world of CRT. As you can see...


Many happy years left, on all CRT RPTVs of that model year and everything since -




> Quote:
> Are your screenshots of a Std DVD or HD/Bluray?



BluRay



> Quote:
> For some reason I like the last 2 photos



So do I...













b


----------



## Mr Bob

Dirty/clean Optics and grayscale (second pic not fully converged at that point)

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22209stevemock710baltimuz7.jpg 


 


















[/url]







[/url]










[/url]







[/url]










[/url]







[/url]










[/url]


This last shot was in the daytime with a skylight way up there and only able to be partially blocked, so the blacks won't be quite as inky as in the previous shots, with the daylight allowing you to see the nice wood cabinetry on this one, which Steve created from scratch BTW. VERY nice woodwork by the owner.


Cam's exposure setting lower than in shot above, at cam, display's settings remained the same. Would have reduced the exposure on the Before shot above to get a match with this one on the exposure, but it was too late by then








[/url]



b


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## Mr Bob

4 layers of half-inch thick wood, for exactly 2" thickness

 
 

 
 



You can see 2 blocks on this shot, because the entire array tray is raised so much

 
 


Steve's rather unique way of doing the bolts. As Kirk said in Wrath of Khan, about his solution to the unwinnable Kobiashi Maru (?) test at the Academy, "It had the unique virtue of never having been tried..." Observe the MULTIPLE washers at the head of the bolt, since we could not get the bolt to penetrate the set's metal tray beyond just a little bite, even with the hole already there for a smaller bolt thickness that we simply could not lay our hands on in an elongated length. Worked like a charm...


 
 

 
 


The results



Before

 
 


After


Had to push the image up a bit from center because of a pesky red and blue dot that were visible in the blacks at fully centered vertically.


Top could have been a bit straighter and more parallel to the frame, but the shimming op had taken so long by then I was kind of in a rush and missed it. That wood wall that had to be removed was incredibly hard to get out when thru the front was the only way. He really didn't want to have to take the set out to get to the back of it, and with his considerations on what was back there to have to deal with, I didn't blame him...


Redoing the o'scan this way takes a lot of pressure off the coarse and fine geo/conv circuit, which can happen when reducing it via sm only


----------



## Gary Murrell

Bob, wish I had all these tweaks when I was big into RPTV CRT


the amount of strain on RPTV convergence/geometery circuits was something that always bothered me and even more so was the focus quality of lenses in the units


this is good stuff


-Gary


----------



## winduptoy

To use your own term; That's some awesome shimmage Bob! I continue to be amazed at what you are able to do with CRT RP's.


----------



## winduptoy

Any luck getting the new PJ fired up Gary? I'm looking forward to seeing some of your screenshots when you do. In the meantime, I'll try and do what I can to keep the thread active. Haven't seen any from Cliff for a while either.

Here's some from *The Fall*; A young girl and a man are in a hospital in L.A. around 1920 or so. He starts telling her a story and we see this story through her eyes.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15972980
> 
> 
> Bob, wish I had all these tweaks when I was big into RPTV CRT
> 
> 
> the amount of strain on RPTV convergence/geometery circuits was something that always bothered me and even more so was the focus quality of lenses in the units
> 
> 
> this is good stuff
> 
> 
> -Gary



Thanks, I value your input.


The lenses on the good stuff are pretty darn good, once focussed correctly. Only 1 brand consistently gets it right on the optical focus OOB, and that's Sony. But the lenses used in the nice sets are excellent.


Now get an off brand and things change. But Pioneer is one of the brands that can definitely be trusted to use only the finest lenses.



b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15973461
> 
> 
> To use your own term; That's some awesome shimmage Bob! I continue to be amazed at what you are able to do with CRT RP's.



Thanks, I really love 'em. Not everybody can afford the care and feeding that ceiling pjs take. I have a Barco Data 800 out in the garage that delivers an incredibly scintillating 1080i on a bare wall, but I just can't justify what it would take to do it permanently.


So I get by with my Mit 73", with the shimming mod, the CraigR anti-ringing mod, plus its own eons of time spent calibrating it...


Sitting 8' back from it, tho, having my field of view totally commanded by it, it's all worth it...











If you ever want something done on your system, I would love to visit Nova Scotia!











b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15973483
> 
> 
> Any luck getting the new PJ fired up Gary? I'm looking forward to seeing some of your screenshots when you do. In the meantime, I'll try and do what I can to keep the thread active. Haven't seen any from Cliff for a while either.
> 
> Here's some from *The Fall*; A young girl and a man are in a hospital in L.A. around 1920 or so. He starts telling her a story and we see this story through her eyes.



Pretty sharp there!



b


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/15973483
> 
> 
> Any luck getting the new PJ fired up Gary? I'm looking forward to seeing some of your screenshots when you do. In the meantime, I'll try and do what I can to keep the thread active. Haven't seen any from Cliff for a while either.
> 
> Here's some from *The Fall*; A young girl and a man are in a hospital in L.A. around 1920 or so. He starts telling her a story and we see this story through her eyes.



very soon windup, I recently spot burnt a minty P19LUG green







, but things are going to work out ok


what PJ is that? looks plenty good










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

Factory instilled OOB overscan. BD graphics lettering - or anything else up there at top of screen that you might want to see - cut off at the knees. Same on bottom, cutting off much of her chin








[/url]


After


Overscan redux in action. Not only fully restored lettering, but of several inches of the gray above it as well. Same applies at bottom of screen, restoring the contour of her chin. And all around.


Apply this to sports scores and other graphics your CRT RPTV display is currenty missing and your eyes are starving for, if you've never had it done.


ALL CRT RPTV tech came with overscan as standard equipment, but the original pic can always be restored by someone in the know, again revealing those formerly lost areas of video real estate and at the same time heightening the available to be viewed visible pixel count. And thus heightened, more intense image resolution, both horizontally and vertically








[/url]


Before








[/url]


After


Just imagine...


Unfortunately, I didn't get an After on this one! The only After on o'scan redux other than Lilu's closeup is the grid, shown before. Maybe next time...












b


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/15974945
> 
> 
> very soon windup, I recently spot burnt a minty P19LUG green
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , but things are going to work out ok
> 
> 
> what PJ is that? looks plenty good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



G70 w/Moome HDMI card.


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/15973558
> 
> 
> Thanks, I really love 'em. Not everybody can afford the care and feeding that ceiling pjs take. I have a Barco Data 800 out in the garage that delivers an incredibly scintillating 1080i on a bare wall, but I just can't justify what it would take to do it permanently.
> 
> 
> So I get by with my Mit 73", with the shimming mod, the CraigR anti-ringing mod, plus its own eons of time spent calibrating it...
> 
> 
> Sitting 8' back from it, tho, having my field of view totally commanded by it, it's all worth it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you ever want something done on your system, I would love to visit Nova Scotia!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



The PJ has been really stable for months. I turn it on, warm up the tubes, watch movie, turn off source to cool tubes. I check the grid from DVE HD Basics and grayscale periodically but nothing has budged in almost 3 months.

Gotta go see Slumdog. More later.


----------



## winduptoy

It is now later... (is that an oxymoron?)


Slumdog was certainly worth seeing in the theater. 2 hours that just flew by. I will rent it as soon as it comes out on BR while the memory of the PQ in the cinema is still fresh. As for your other Q's; perhaps it would be better if you sent me a PM.


----------



## winduptoy

We had some friends over from work last night who hadn't seen WALL-E. I forgot just how good the PQ was. Sure wish I had your 134s from your XG, Gary.



























and the short that came with it... PRESTO


----------



## Mr Bob

Makes me remember how incredible realigning the color decoding recently on a Mit CRT RPTV made Wall-E look. No red push, absoluely scintillating, delicate, fully lifelike and accurate color. Only RPTVs with linear color decoding to start with can compete. Ceiling pjs with scalers are usually fully linear already.


Watching Wall-E on a fully linear color decoding setup is the ONLY way to watch Wall-E. Like in the pix above. Nice!











b


----------



## bboyneko

Here is the best I could muster (I suck at taking photos in dimly lit rooms) of my Hitachi Model 57F59 :

*TMNT*


----------



## Mr Bob

Not bad! Pretty darn crisp -


b


----------



## winduptoy

Yep, nothing wrong with your focus...try backing off on your exposure a stop or two, or use -1 or -2 compensation and your screenshots should look pretty sweet.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16083603
> 
> 
> Yep, nothing wrong with your focus...try backing off on your exposure a stop or two, or use -1 or -2 compensation and your screenshots should look pretty sweet.



Right, they are a little blanched, a little white crush going on there...



b


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## Prehjan

192k views....


Now this is a thread!


Martin


----------



## crt nuts

Hello All


Not sure I'm doing this right, would like a point in the right direction as far as screeshots go. This is my 1st attempt, so tell me what you guys think. Attachment 137878


----------



## nashou66




----------



## crt nuts

any good???


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16095313
> 
> 
> 192k views....
> 
> 
> Now this is a thread!
> 
> 
> Martin



Gonna be time soon to get off my ars and put down the smackdown.










Yes, this is the threads of all threads.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/16125542
> 
> 
> any good???



Like that kitty shot.


----------



## crt nuts

That says a helluva lot coming from you Cliffy.










Thanks a bunch










My lowly 8500 AC on a 96" Hurley 1.5 screen. I have only reduced the pic to host and nothing else was touched. Used a Kodak Easyshare CX7430


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/16125649
> 
> 
> That says a helluva lot coming from you Cliffy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a bunch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My lowly 8500 AC on a 96" Hurley 1.5 screen. I have only reduced the pic to host and nothing else was touched. Used a Kodak Easyshare CX7430



Does your Hurley have the seam in the center or is it a one piece?


Athanasios


----------



## PhilRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/11489831
> 
> 
> that new Fifth Element remaster is the ****, I am going to have to get some up of that on my lowly 1352, later this weekend, here are some for kicks with the DVDO VP50pro:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary




Very nice.. I am impressed.


----------



## crt nuts




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16125678
> 
> 
> Does your Hurley have the seam in the center or is it a one piece?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Seam near centre , not quite but would really have to look hard to find it.


Mark


----------



## nashou66

I have been thinking of getting that screen nice price, i am worried about the seam. I have a sample and I agree its not that noticeable, is it a horizontal seam or did they do it vertical? I plan on a 13-14.5 foot wide 2.4 screen.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

I have done a complete redo of my overscan reduction via the shimming method, because I found that my Mit 73" red and blue guns had never been aimed properly in the design of the unit. This was far beyond a factory defect, because once the CRT array bulkhead - what the CRTs attach to and mount on - had been built, it was set in stone. It was a design decision, no doubt based on the fact that the same CRT array had to be used both in the 73" - where it had always been 9" - and the 65" versions of their later 9" gun models.


Be that is may, there was a huge discrepancy between the r and b guns as to where the images hit, on their phosphor faces. It hit perfectly centered on the green gun, but to one side on the red and to the complete opposite side on the blue, with unused space remaining on each of those outer sides.


As such, LOTS of CRT face was remaining unused, on all 3 guns.


I set about to remedy this sad situation, with a complete pictorial display of my work on it available at my "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV!" thread. Luckily I had been rabidly careful about screenburn and overall light levels since I bought it new, and my CRT faces were still virgin. You can't do this advanced amendment to the shimming mod if your faces have the slightest trace of aging footprint visible on them already.


Via sm I recentered the images on red and blue, re-aimed both of them mechanically for accurate centering, expanded the images in sm to now fit the faces much more completely, shimmed my array forward another 3/4" for a full 3" of shimming, now, and then did the necessary corrections to focus, geometry and convergence.


Again, go to that thread and you'll see what I'm talking about. It starts a few pages ago, from today's date -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=172 



Here are the results -


BTW, didn't notice till everything was uploaded that my camera tilt was off!











Sorry, ain't gonna go back and shoot 'em all over again. These are just some of the total I just shot. Took a long time.


Just know that it was the camera being tilted, not the display!











These were all shot at 1.2MP on my Kodak Z712 IS, on tripod and 2 second timer'd, of course -



b


Sprint commercial








[/url]



24








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[/url]








[/url]








[/url]



Casino Royale commercial








[/url]



Evening news








[/url]



Test patterns. Remember the tilt is at the camera, not the display -


Took vertical sizing in a bit to accommodate the offness of the DVE pattern, which is slightly oval, vertically, when sized properly at the edges. I set my roundness using a shot of the moon, on a broadcast show, I believe on PBS. I am sure it will now match the perfect circles on the ABC and CBS logos as well.









[/url]


Final Mits sm settings for height and width








[/url]








[/url]


Joe Kane grid at low contrast








[/url]


----------



## crt nuts




nashou66 said:


> I have been thinking of getting that screen nice price, i am worried about the seam. I have a sample and I agree its not that noticeable, is it a horizontal seam or did they do it vertical? I plan on a 13-14.5 foot wide 2.4 screen.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Athanasios
> 
> 
> The seam is vertical and it is for all intents and purpose not really a seam, instead I would say its a type of butt joint. The two pieces are layed right next to each other and a third piece is fused to the back of both of them. I do not see evidence whilst watching a movie, but if carefully scutinized on an all white field, one might see it.
> 
> 
> The objective is to keep from cleaning that section as, if any dust is accidently wiped into that area the joint will then be very obvious. You know, like trying to clean a glass that has scratches on it. The solution used to clean the glass would make the scratches stand out.
> 
> 
> Mark


----------



## crt nuts

Athansios


Here it is


----------



## nashou66

Thanks, The price of the hurly MW-16 cant be beat, i think they quoted me 400+ for the 13.5' wide scope screen lace and grommet. I'd have to build a frame, and was thinking along the lines of piping used for conduit and pipe stanchions to keep it off the wall. Then build a fabric covered wood frame to conceal the lace and grommet .
*CRT Nuts Screen*










I now have a 12 foot 1.78 da-lite 1.3 pull down. i just am wondering how much nicer the Hurley would be for Blending since it is a unity gain screen. the sample did sam a bit sharper than the Da-Lite.


Athanasios


----------



## crt nuts

This is also a lace and grommet 1.85:1 screen . 96x 52. I just used 2 x2 and made a frame. I then screwed through the grommet holes , using washers straight into the wood. I then used slightly longer screws and went through the frame into the wall. By the way. Measured out the frame with screen first, frame to wall and finally stretched the screen over the frame all in the vertical position (on wall). It turned out ok. The guys at Hurley said the screen should be stretched again , I did not.... It's still taut.


Mark


----------



## crt nuts

Athanasios


----------



## crt nuts

Sorry for the poor picture quality. I did not have atripod at the time and as you can see , the pic is not even level.










Mark


----------



## bel4_20

interesting


----------



## amidcars

I will bring in my little addition to the screenshot war. All @ 1080p from my PS3, HDfury, and the projector is a BarcoReality 909 (no grayscale has been done yet).


----------



## Mr Bob

BSG








[/url]








[/url]


This is a pic of the ship's engine room. The part that's moving, the big magneto on runner beams in the lower left sliding down towards the corner, is a little blurry from its movement. The rest of the pic is crisper, so focus in on the rest of the pic to really get the full effect.



Larger version of pic. Doesn't hold the crispness like a G90 would, but oh well, I can't have it all without going the freight...











Hit F11 to see more of it on your screen -









[/url]


----------



## winduptoy

Wow! That must be absolutely delicious to watch. Even the screenshot looks 3 dimensional. If I lived within a 4 hour drive, I'd want to come and see that in person.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16183072
> 
> 
> Wow! That must be absolutely delicious to watch. Even the screenshot looks 3 dimensional. If I lived within a 4 hour drive, I'd want to come and see that in person.



You'd be welcome to! If you're ever in the states, come visit the SF Bay Area, you can stay in my guest room!


Anyone who wants to see my baby in action, give me a call a little ahead of time so I can warm her up, and come on over!













b


PS - and yes, it IS a delicious experience immersing yourself in her images, being spirited away to the Galactica's universe and forgetting about this one for awhile...


----------



## vandy1

Ya today the screen shots have their own importance. They are considered as important as its effects can lead to the marketing of the product.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vandy1* /forum/post/16213272
> 
> 
> Ya today the screen shots have their own importance. They are considered as important as its effects can lead to the marketing of the product.



And rightly so. But try saying that over at the SPot.


I fought tooth and nail to convince them of that, and share how great screenshots can be, but to no avail. Leading the charge against me, with very few dissenting votes displayed on the thread in question, was a very well known and excellent calibrator, whom I have the utmost respect for. He would not give me the time of day on them, and gave me excoriating grief for even trying, over there. I finally just gave up. Yet yesterday a SPottie over there needed a convergence repair locally here and hired me to do it, and is now considering the shimming op even tho his size is the smallest Mit made, the WT 46807. So I guess some were immune to the waves of the vitriolic bleck slewn at me from that toxic avenger over there ...


Here at AVS is a much better place to use such technology. Tho I would go back over there in a heartbeat and share there again along with here, if I thought I would get a better reception there now.


And yes, I totally agree!












b


----------



## winduptoy

Been busy redoing my bathroom...took the night off...time to feed the thread...


Baraka



























QOS


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice!












b


----------



## Hellboy56

wow some amazing pics there


----------



## Mr Bob

Just a quick addendum to my pix above -


On the pic of the ship's engine room: The part that's moving, the big magneto on runner beams in the lower left sliding down towards the corner, is a little blurry from its movement. The rest of the pic is crisper, so focus in on the rest of the pic to really get the full effect.



b


----------



## PeriSoft

It's screenshot night at the PeriHouse! OK... optical focus is crap still but what the hell.

































































Toastybarco will ride [email protected]$2


----------



## Mr Bob

Awesome! Boy, you really gotta hit F11 to get the full pic on those -


b


----------



## dthibode

Ok, here's my first attempt at doing some screenshots. I have a barco graphics 808 with color corrected lenses and a 7ft wide 16x9 screen fed by my htpc. The camera is a Kodak Z1012 in night portrait mode. I've grayscale calibrated the pj. I'm very satisfied with the picture quality, but these photos seem a little darker than in person. Constructive criticism?


Sorry if these are too big. I resized them to 50% before posting other than that I didn't mess with them.


Thanks to everyone for posting such great pics, it's inspiring!










-Dale


----------



## Mr Bob

Your shots are a little big, they are not fitting on the screen. A little over is not too bad, but in your case only a fragment is fitting on my screen.


You might want to try downsizing them a bit, or not upsizing them as much.











b


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16271075
> 
> 
> Your shots are a little big, they are not fitting on the screen. A little over is not too bad, but in your case only a fragment is fitting on my screen.
> 
> 
> You might want to try downsizing them a bit, or not upsizing them as much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Sorry about that. I resized them to match the post above it. refresh and it should be better. Thanks! The originals in 10mp were 3648 x 2736!


I also realized for the cars and fifth element pictures I forgot and had my sconces on low so you can see a little red cast on the screen. I realized my error and turned the lights off for gladiator, so those came out a little better.


----------



## Kevin 3000

Hi after seeing all your great pics i wanted to give you guys a taste of digital in the form of an RS10 JVC projected on a Panoview Greywolf 2 120" diag 1.8 gain screen enjoy....


----------



## winduptoy




dthibode said:


> Sorry about that. I resized them to match the post above it. refresh and it should be better. Thanks! The originals in 10mp were 3648 x 2736!
> 
> 
> I think when you resized, you cropped instead of resampling. Your geometry, convergence and focus look great! Nice work! Can't wait to see some full-framers.


----------



## dthibode

no cropping, just resizing. I didn't want to modify the images in any way!


----------



## mp20748

I'm back... well, not exactly. I just installed a 9500LC Ulra on my ceiling and will soon have it ready for more screenshots..












sorry guys, but the digital screenshots looks way too artificial.


----------



## mark haflich

I agree with MP. i don`t very much like the screen shots from the RS10 BUT I don`t think screen shots are worth a damn for determining how an image on a screen looks. One can use a screen shot of a test pattern to evaluate some things like convergence and geometry set up and detail but for how an actual image looks, not a chance.


----------



## Mr Bob

I disagree.


Very few computer monitors are CRT these days, they are usually LCD. A poorly set up CRT monitor may lie to us, but not a well set up one.


A well set up CRT monitor is every bit as crisp for our uses as an LCD monitor, but with LCD we don't even have to wonder about that. LCDs are as crisp as crisp gets for our purposes here, at the size of computer monitors. High res LCD performance as your computer monitor gives us a 100% pixel/pixel matchup between the digital camera shot involved and the computer user's viewscreen.


That allows screenshots to deliver the nth degree of faithfulness in their representation, as far as the image structure goes.


The grayscale and colorations can be all over the map depending on how each monitor happens to be set up, granted, so can the luminance. But the structure is still highly available to judge the crispness of the displays involved, all of course depending on how crisp the camera's optics are.


I have seen shots here that blow me away, on every single pc or laptop monitor I see them on. Over and over again. I go to my massage therapist, who uses a nice BIG Mac LCD monitor on her desktop, and it's even better!



b


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> But the structure is still highly available to judge the crispness of the displays involved



But since nobody posts 1920x1080 screenshots, that's pointless. A lot of shots are barely 1000 pixels wide - if your G90 could only display 1000x550 you'd be pretty horribly disappointed, and it would look godawful, but a screenshot of it posted at 1000x550 would look perfect.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16357404
> 
> 
> But since nobody posts 1920x1080 screenshots, that's pointless. A lot of shots are barely 1000 pixels wide - if your G90 could only display 1000x550 you'd be pretty horribly disappointed, and it would look godawful, but a screenshot of it posted at 1000x550 would look perfect.





A full 1920 is not needed to see the crispness of the horizontal resolution. CRT RPTV tech rarely goes over 1400 on the horizontal rez, but when well set up it's still crisp enough to see the grain of the film they use to shoot movies. And digital compression, like the skittering that happens on non-Superbit versions of lots of SD DVD material.


Sure, the display pic will always be better than the screenshot of same, but the screenshots I have seen here are still breathtaking when they are the exquisite ones done by Caspian, Overclkr and a few others, the ones with the superior cameras and shooting techniques.


The poorly done pix of non-high precision displays also show their flaws very easily on computer monitors.


Since I can readily see the range of good to bad on my computer monitor, I feel that screenshots play a MAJOR role in what we are trying to do here. And in displaying how good CRT can look up against fixed pixel, as far as image crispness goes.


And I am not alone -











If you are not seeing this, come on over to my place and let me show you my monitor in action on the wide range of image crispness available just in this thread!



b


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16357404
> 
> 
> But since nobody posts 1920x1080 screenshots, that's pointless. A lot of shots are barely 1000 pixels wide - if your G90 could only display 1000x550 you'd be pretty horribly disappointed, and it would look godawful, but a screenshot of it posted at 1000x550 would look perfect.



Here is one at 1920 wide I took a while back with my XG...Not too bad...Perhaps a little soft.











Now the same shot resized to 800 wide. The smaller does look much sharper. I agree the smaller the shot is resized to the better they do look.











Mike


----------



## Mr Bob

Yes but how many people can send in shots where the crispness stays as sharp as yours do when they are expanded so much as this one here? On my screen I can only see half of your bigger pic at any one time. Yet it's still masterfully crisp.


Sure not as crisp as the smaller one, but the pic on a tiny outboard portable 5" b/w CRT is always sharper than one on a 19" too. Does that mean we have to go to a super small pic just to get good crispness???


Maybe I could scale my monitor screen differently to get your whole pic in on my screen and it would still be super sharp, but that would make other things I have up here be supersmall and in fine print. Don't want that.


These things have to be judged in context.



b


----------



## stevezachtech

I wonder if the Nikon Coolpix Digital Camera could have quality pictures like those.. It's currently auctioned at Gobid .


----------



## PeriSoft

OK, so here's one to try on for size. 1920 wide:


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stevezachtech* /forum/post/16369647
> 
> 
> I wonder if the Nikon Coolpix Digital Camera could have quality pictures like those.. It's currently auctioned at Gobid .



I would not trust any small cam/lens like that to produce the kind of pix that a big lens can do, for blowing things up on the monitor screen like we like to do here. I have a Sony compact with a small self-contained fully internal 3x Carl Zeiss lens, but it can't compare to my Kodak Z712 IS with its external 12x Schneider lens. Basically the same cam as Cliff uses; I believe his is the Z610 IS, the 10x version from probably a year before. Both of these have the big Schneider lens and are fully manual ops capable, which you really need for screenshots. I have an excellent Toshiba 10x with Canon optics, but it's fully automatic and so does great for snapshots but not here, where we need massive amounts of control.


My Kodak was on closeout and I got it brand new for a song, well under $200, more like 160. You can probably find one around for about that, if they are still being closed out.



b


----------



## dthibode

I have a kodak z1012 IS and I love it. I'm a novice at cameras, but setting it on the night portrait mode seemed to produce decent screen shots.


----------



## mp20748

I got the 9500 mounted and have already started my setup tonight. It's in it's very first stage, but still, it has excellent background detail and sharpness. It'll probably take the rest of the week to get it finished. And I'll have to also get familiar with the camera all over again.



They're way too dark, But that's fine because when it's all done and finished, I'll be back with more..


----------



## winduptoy

Good to see you back, Mike!


Is the geometry off with the Projector or has it been compromised during resample of the photos?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16388343
> 
> 
> Good to see you back, Mike!
> 
> 
> Is the geometry off with the Projector or has it been compromised during resample of the photos?




Yes, almost everything is off.


After mounting the 9500 last Saturday, I forgot to set the throw distance properly for it. It's now mounted on the same mount and position where my lowly 8500 was mounted.


So when I found out about that, I spent a little time doing a quick and dirty just to see what it looked like before going through the not so easy task of putting it where it should to my screen.


I'm really looking forward to this setup..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16388547
> 
> 
> Yes, almost everything is off.
> 
> 
> After mounting the 9500 last Saturday, I forgot to set the throw distance properly for it. It's now mounted on the same mount and position where my lowly 8500 was mounted.
> 
> 
> So when I found out about that, I spent a little time doing a quick and dirty just to see what it looked like before going through the not so easy task of putting it where it should to my screen.
> 
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this setup..



Ahhh, the fun of a complete set up, mounting location and all!!!


I also am Glad to see your back !


Athanasios


----------



## crt nuts




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16388547
> 
> 
> Yes, almost everything is off.
> 
> 
> After mounting the 9500 last Saturday, I forgot to set the throw distance properly for it. It's now mounted on the same mount and position where my lowly 8500 was mounted.
> 
> 
> So when I found out about that, I spent a little time doing a quick and dirty just to see what it looked like before going through the not so easy task of putting it where it should to my screen.
> 
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this setup..



Hello Mike


I was wondering what your personal preference would be between the 909 and 9500 ultra. Ofcource this would include your own modifications on either machine.










Mark G


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16389844
> 
> 
> i also am glad to see you're back !
> 
> 
> Athanasios



+1


----------



## mp20748

Yep, I'm back... just give me a few days to move the projector back a few inches.


This time I'll be doing my shots from a Marquee 9500LC Ultra. This particular Marquee will have Barco 909 focus coils instead of stock..













> Quote:
> I was wondering what your personal preference would be between the 909 and 9500 ultra. Ofcource this would include your own modifications on either machine.



I prefer the 9500 and I have them both here.


Maybe we can get someone with a 909 or Cine 9 to join us in this thread later.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16372218
> 
> 
> I have a kodak z1012 IS and I love it. I'm a novice at cameras, but setting it on the night portrait mode seemed to produce decent screen shots.



Yeah, Cliff says that works great for his too. Gotta try that on mine soon -


Welcome back, Mike! You will be expanding that height out a bit, right?



b


----------



## overclkr

Was up fellas? I forgot to contribute these to the thread.










Triple Stack Baby.



























































































Cliffy


----------



## winduptoy

That image must be like 3D without the glasses! Wish I could have made it there.


----------



## dthibode

wow, those look sharp. I love the dark city pic, the heads pop out of the screen! wow.


----------



## mp20748

Still have a lot of work to do, but for now, here's a little something with the new coils:


*HTPC to 9500LC - 1920x1080P @ 72hz*


----------



## overclkr

Whoo hoo! Time to get the war going again.










Very nice Mike!


----------



## dropzone7

Very nice guys! Just when I think mine looks pretty good, I come back here for a reality check. I would love to move up to a 9" set one day.


Cliff, what is that movie in your last shot?


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16415245
> 
> 
> Cliff, what is that movie in your last shot?



That would be Dark City



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## WTS

I hope it's just your camera because they look awfully soft.


----------



## Mr Bob

I think the ones that you're refering to as looking soft are Mike's, where his shots are just an initial volly on some mods he's been working on. There's still a lot of work to do on his display, but he wanted to send us at least the first offerings on some new stuff he's doing. His is not totally tricked out again just yet.


You'll know when it is...











Cliff's are the Dark City ones, and no crispness delinquency there! As always, they simply pop out of the screen at ya!












b


----------



## WTS

Yes I was referring to Mikes


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## lioni

I just want to say，after viewig this thread，i became to hate maquee8500


----------



## mp20748

same camera and settings but different HDMI converters.

 


second HDMI converter:


----------



## mp20748

second HDMI converter


----------



## stevezachtech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16371386
> 
> 
> I would not trust any small cam/lens like that to produce the kind of pix that a big lens can do, for blowing things up on the monitor screen like we like to do here. I have a Sony compact with a small self-contained fully internal 3x Carl Zeiss lens, but it can't compare to my Kodak Z712 IS with its external 12x Schneider lens. Basically the same cam as Cliff uses; I believe his is the Z610 IS, the 10x version from probably a year before. Both of these have the big Schneider lens and are fully manual ops capable, which you really need for screenshots. I have an excellent Toshiba 10x with Canon optics, but it's fully automatic and so does great for snapshots but not here, where we need massive amounts of control.
> 
> 
> My Kodak was on closeout and I got it brand new for a song, well under $200, more like 160. You can probably find one around for about that, if they are still being closed out.
> 
> 
> 
> b



That sure is informative. Thanks for the heads up. Up for some more screenies!


----------



## winduptoy

Took the night off from renovations and watched *Benjamin Button*...


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice. Looks just like I remember the film looking. That digital or CRT?












b


----------



## winduptoy

L'il ol' G70 w/Moome HDMI card. Here's some from *Cars* you don't usually see...


----------



## Mr Bob

Tight!


----------



## overclkr

Those are KICK ARSE windup!


----------



## winduptoy

Thanks Big Dog!


I'm determined to get down there and get 'stacked'. Maybe next time... Looks like everyone there had a blast! have you seen *Baraka* on blu-ray yet? It would TOTALLY ROCK on your setup!










- toy dog



























About time you humbled me with some of your killer screens, don'cha think?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16435972
> 
> 
> About time you humbled me with some of your killer screens, don'cha think?



They be kickin' ass fo sho.










I remember the G70 oh so well. I ACTUALLY PREFER the construction of the G70 over the G90 when it comes to service. Who in Sony needs to get smacked around for that one?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## winduptoy

Gamma looks much better Mike. Does your aspect ratio look like that, or is it just in the photos?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16437099
> 
> 
> Gamma looks much better Mike. Does your aspect ratio look like that, or is it just in the photos?




We're still waiting to move the Marquee back a few inches, so the setup is still a quick and dirty. Not sure what the aspect ratio is or how close it is to where it should be.


The change in gamma may be from using a different Blu Ray player for these last group of shots. I've done these with a Samsung BD-P1590, before that it was a Samsung BD-P1000, which was one of the very first Blu Ray players made.


All colors are being setup by eye for now. Once I get the projector in it's right spot, I'll then setup everything for its best.


----------



## mp20748

Check this out, there's NO RED C element...


*All shots are low light scenes / 1080P / Sony BDP-S360 / Fury2 / Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## dropzone7

I hesitate to post these amongst the gods of CRT with the likes of Cliffy, MP and others but I got no feedback after putting them in my regular thread. These are not exactly recent but still representative of what I have at the moment. Just curious what I might try to work on or if I'm in the ballpark with these. I try to stay out of the screenshot "wars" since I don't have the big guns of 9" CRT but here goes.


NEC XG-852 with Moome HDMI card:


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice!



b


----------



## nashou66

Dropzone those are as good as the big guns buddy... keep it up!!!!



Nashou


----------



## winduptoy

Dropzone;

Please post more. Geometry and focus look very good. Gamma looks excellent, could probably use a little less exposure in the camera, which would tame the highlights a bit and drop your blacks a little lower. Can your camera be set manually? If so find an exp. that works for most stuff and add a little for dark content and take holf a stop less for really bright subjects.

I use 3.2 sec @ f:5.6 as a base. Color looks good as far as I can tell (Fifth Element blu-ray is a little red on my PJ as well). Sorry to ramble so much...it looks like you have a setup that could produce superb screenshots! Keep on posting!


----------



## dthibode

dropzone, those look razor sharp. very nice.


----------



## plain fan

Dropzone, those are great pictures.


----------



## mp20748

A few changes later...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## CaspianM

dropzone7,

I say all you need to do is to kick back and watch. Long live XG! Amazing CRT PJ IMO.


----------



## Kevin 3000

Some same frames off my JVC RS10 0 sharpness applied and more natural looking without all this extra contrast/brightness.

Just to show an example of digital


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16467894
> 
> 
> Some same frames off my JVC RS10 0 sharpness applied and more natural looking without all this extra contrast/brightness.



Not sure what you're saying here, but would this shot have that "extra" contrast/brightness?


----------



## Kevin 3000




mp20748 said:


> Not sure what you're saying here, but would this shot have that "extra" contrast/brightness?
> 
> 
> Yes on my display looks like a torch is in his face, the way i test my pics is to flick inputs between film image and pic on projector adjust camera settings to match, or checkout blu-ray.com for almost correct screenshots depends how serious you are or i may be talking BS and this is how CRTs look.


----------



## mp20748




Kevin 3000 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16472266
> 
> 
> Not sure what you're saying here, but would this shot have that "extra" contrast/brightness?
> 
> 
> Yes on my display looks like a torch is in his face, the way i test my pics is to flick inputs between film image and pic on projector adjust camera settings to match, or checkout blu-ray.com for almost correct screenshots depends how serious you are or i may be talking BS and this is how CRTs look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you familiar with the scene, what he's looking at and what's going on right in front of him?
Click to expand...


----------



## Kevin 3000




mp20748 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16472744
> 
> 
> 
> Are you familiar with the scene, what he's looking at and what's going on right in front of him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the fifth element `words spoken` statue inside the dull caverns where the stones are kept just looked.
> 
> Tell me do the pics you post look as the film is on your PJ?
Click to expand...


----------



## PeriSoft

I'll tell you guys what - my Cerwin Vegas are really, really loud. I'll record them and post an MP3 so you can hear!


----------



## Kevin 3000




PeriSoft said:


> I'll tell you guys what - my Cerwin Vegas are really, really loud. I'll record them and post an MP3 so you can hear!
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you promise to record at 256kbit/s anything less will upset the equilibrium of the universe


----------



## winduptoy

Fifth Element is one of my favorite movies. I wish the transfer was as outstanding compared to other blu-rays as the superbit DVD version was compared to other DVDs. Still, it's no slouch and always fun to watch.


----------



## winduptoy

Oops, I forgot to mention, FWIW, the best 5E shots on the previous page are Dropzones IMO.


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16473605
> 
> 
> Oops, I forgot to mention, FWIW, the best 5E shots on the previous page are Dropzones IMO.



I thought those were definately the sharpest pics posted too. To me they seemed a little red though. perhaps it's just the chosen scenes or the camera. I'd love to see more!


----------



## winduptoy

Maybe it's your turn to post a few; your Cars shots were right up there. Gotta see more from that Barco of yours.


----------



## winduptoy

Oh, and as for the red, I think it might be a white balance issue. I've also noticed that T5E BR is a little redder on my machine than the DVD. (only slightly though)


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16474755
> 
> 
> Maybe it's your turn to post a few; your Cars shots were right up there. Gotta see more from that Barco of yours.



I have some left edge convergence and lower corner focus issues I'm working on this week. I'll post more when I get those ironed out!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16474929
> 
> 
> I have some left edge convergence and lower corner focus issues I'm working on this week. I'll post more when I get those ironed out!



Yep, that also three of the same problems I need to address, but I'll need to replace the convergence board for one of them.


Just join in where you are and work your way up to better shots. That's what I've always done. Plus it lets you look back and compare where you came from..










I have a ways to go still but, I'm still posting along the way. Sharpness I'm not that concerned with right now. I'll get to that later, just like last time. For now, it's the colors and things in the background. And so far, I don't have everything I need to bring them out their best, that won't happen until I get my source stuff where I want it.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16473419
> 
> 
> Fifth Element is one of my favorite movies. I wish the transfer was as outstanding compared to other blu-rays as the superbit DVD version was compared to other DVDs. Still, it's no slouch and always fun to watch.



If these are screenshots, they are really really good! Probably the best I've seen of TFE, depth and dimensionality up the wazoo. Damn good job.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16476188
> 
> 
> Another comparison for you all to ponder over...



It's too difficult to capture a CRT projector, the dynamic range is just so large for a camera sensor. Your shot looks a little flat and almost washed out to me.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16476188
> 
> 
> Another comparison for you all to ponder over...




Help me out here Kevin, what is there to compare?


When you post like this without saying what to compare, it makes it look like your setup is the reference and the others are wrong... unless you're using your setup to show how close the others are to being right.


----------



## winduptoy

It's looking much better Mike! I really appreciate you posting as you're working this stuff through. I know you're taking a few hits, but we're all learning something from it. Thank you.


Have you got a copy of DVE HD Basics? I use the crosshatch with circles for geometry and convergence. I spent $12 and a couple of hours making a full size convergence pattern on a piece of white vinyl with a straightedge and a sharpie. I hang it by adjustable clips below my screen (when it is up). Sure makes geometry go faster. I'll see if I can take some shots today and post them.


----------



## mp20748

I got my bandwidth back..




















































My source problem is now fixed - woo hoo!


Now I can get back to dialing this baby in...


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/16475734
> 
> 
> If these are screenshots, they are really really good! Probably the best I've seen of TFE, depth and dimensionality up the wazoo. Damn good job.



Very thoughtful of you to take the time to post that, Thanks!


I wish you lived closer as it looks even better live even though it's an 8" machine. BTW, I do absolutely no processing to the images as even cropping alters the file (My camera won't do RAW).


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16476258
> 
> 
> It's looking much better Mike! I really appreciate you posting as you're working this stuff through. I know you're taking a few hits, but we're all learning something from it. Thank you.
> 
> 
> Have you got a copy of DVE HD Basics? I use the crosshatch with circles for geometry and convergence. I spent $12 and a couple of hours making a full size convergence pattern on a piece of white vinyl with a straightedge and a sharpie. I hang it by adjustable clips below my screen (when it is up). Sure makes geometry go faster. I'll see if I can take some shots today and post them.



Thanks dude..










I had a problem with a source device. I soldered the RGBHV cables directly to it and that did not work out too well, so I thought I had damaged it and then started using something different. This morning I took one more stab at trying to resolder the cables... and that time it worked. It's out of the case, but it's working nontheless..










I have still the whole geometry and everything else to do. I was holding off on doing that because I was thinking to swap the green CRT. Not sure if I'd want to go that way now.


But yes, post the shots!


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16476247
> 
> 
> It's too difficult to capture a CRT projector, the dynamic range is just so large for a camera sensor. Your shot looks a little flat and almost washed out to me.



I agree, if you compare it to the 5E shots above this shot looks very washed out and lacks the color and depth of the previous shots.


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16475573
> 
> 
> Yep, that also three of the same problems I need to address, but I'll need to replace the convergence board for one of them.



MP, How do you know it's the convergence board? Just curious, I have a spare but haven't tested that possibility yet. Thanks!


----------



## overclkr

Eh, my FE shots from page two.



























































































Cliff


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16476484
> 
> 
> Here is a reference shot ponder over this....



The camera does not see the light on the screen like we do. It instead sees the light that is projected towards it or around it. This is especially different going from a digital to a CRT because it is different light source than a digital projector with a lamp for example. CRT screen shots while ideal because they do not have pixel structure are not well compatible to the digital sensor in digital cameras but when you have calibrated them properly and in the right setup they can turn out very well. Some of the important things to watch our for in the photos are blooming and misconvergence. Clipping the photo is a problem more common with digital projectors.


----------



## mp20748

Oh yeah.. I remember those shots, which could be a CRT reference.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16476563
> 
> 
> Eh, my FE shots from page two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Cliff


----------



## mp20748

Ok, if we compare this "reference" to your previous image, which I'm thinking is your RS10. If so, you're right there with the rest of us in still tweaking our setup.


So with that, it looks like we all have some work to do... but try and remember what Gino posted here:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16476247
> 
> 
> It's too difficult to capture a CRT projector, the dynamic range is just so large for a camera sensor. Your shot looks a little flat and almost washed out to me.



So now with your new understanding that there's a difference between CRT and digital through a camera, maybe it'll make more sense to just post your image like everyone else does and try not to set the references for CRT image quality through a camera.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16476484
> 
> 
> Here is a reference shot ponder over this....


----------



## winduptoy

Kevin;


Your projector is capable of so much more than that. (It's an RS-10 isn't it?) Some of your earlier shots on the digital forum were much better. In my fairly limited understanding, screengrabs are much like RAW files - They are a means to an end, but not intended for display material. You have been right to cut back the sharpness. Get your contrast back up to where you can get decent black levels and forget trying to emulate screengrabs. I'm glad you post here from time to time as it is interesting to see the differences that show up between display technologies. Is your PJ calibrated to D65?


----------



## winduptoy

Whoa! The Big Dog just blew by me doing 180...(2 x G90) Good thing he took those before the triple...I think we had better brace ourselves...


BRING IT!!!!!!


-toy dog


----------



## Kevin 3000

Thanks for expanding my understanding about digital sensors and CRT screenshots, that explains a lot......still i don`t mind posting a few digital near to reference pics for you lot to ponder over.....


----------



## winduptoy

This is getting busy..... Ehhhhkksellent!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16476247
> 
> 
> It's too difficult to capture a CRT projector, the dynamic range is just so large for a camera sensor.



Here's an example of just that.


2 different exposure settings on cam, but while the display settings remain exactly the same. Cam's up/downloaded dynamic range on the screenshots nowhere nearly as good as display's, as evidenced best on the fur hitting white crush in the second pic while the guy's backside is still challenged for shadow detail. In the picture above, the detail is not there on the guy's backside, but the fur shows detail without white crush.


You can't have both, not with the digital cam/upload to imageshack/download to thread screenshots. At least not on my cam and Image Shack...


The display itself, on the other hand, a 10 year old Pioneer Elite 710, had no problem with getting ALL of that right, as the settings on the display never changed yet showed it all when the best parts of both pix are observed. The display has no problem with either the black detail starvation nor the white crush, it displays just the right amount of each on its screen, in action in Steve's viewing room in Baltimore. The dynamic range is effortless and absolutely luxurious.


The camera/computer upload/imageshack hosting/download to this thread - not so much.


It's the camera that can't pick it all up without changing the camera's settings. The display is doing just fine. Which is why screenshots, while an incredible medium, completely essential to this thread and VERY telling, don't always tell the whole story!


b









[/url]








[/url]


----------



## mp20748

so what's the thought on the following shot. Is it too modulated?


----------



## winduptoy

Wow Mike! Looks like you've had a good day! That's getting really close. Blue cast on the gain is gone, I can make out a little detail on the near blacks, black level looks good. looks like grayscale is getting close too. (see beard). You must be happy...and tired.


----------



## Kevin 3000

QUOTE Mr Bob

It's the camera that can't pick it all up without changing the camera's settings. The display is doing just fine. Which is why screenshots, while an incredible medium, completely essential to this thread and VERY telling, don't always tell the whole story!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So why not change the cameras settings to compensate?

Lower the cameras contrast in the sample you showed to keep whites in check and expose to correct shadow details?

Project adjusted image to compare to actual film image retake, compare etc etc. until they look close enough.

I know if the camera is without settings you are limited to what can be done.


----------



## PeriSoft

Here's an example of the camera's dynamic range affecting things. Two shots from wall-e; the first is very very dim on-screen, and the second very very bright:




















...now, look at the [PAUSE] box in the upper left. It's the same brightness in 'real life' (give or take a bit due to the difference in APL) but *drastically* different in each of the correctly-exposed photos.


There's enough dynamic range difference when watching the movie that your eyes have to adjust between the dim and bright scenes - with my bg808s on an 84" 1.3gain screen it almost hurts when the scene switches, despite the PJ only having something like 300 ansi lumens!


On a monitor displaying those shots, if you had the correct relative brightness of the dim scene vs. the bright one, you'd see very little detail in the background (not a *word*, mp!







) because it'd be washed out by the rest of the display or room lighting.


But the PJ has very high dynamic range, and in a very dark theater, the dark scene looks on-screen similar to the shot. But the _second_ shot looks much _brighter_ in real life due to the contrast and the fact that your eyes just adjusted to the dark scene.


So there's a temporal component to these shots that people often forget. The dark scene looks good in the screenshot; the bright scene looks pretty lame because when you look at it in the forum, it's surrounded by a bright text window, and your brain says, "Jeez, this blazing sun-baked morning isn't even as bright as this lame AVSforum window!" As an experiment, load that image full-screen without any other crap around. Even in regular room lighting, it suddenly looks a lot punchier...


----------



## winduptoy

That example given by perisoft is correct. This is why I use manual exp. for my screenshots and capture a custom white balance from the 80 IRE window on DVE. (My Powershot A650 won't do 6500 as a preset.) My base exp. is 3.2 [email protected]:5.6 w/ISO at 80 Really dark stuff (low APL) needs 6-8 sec. and bright stuff (high APL) about 2 sec. This way I can get the most info possible into the camera. The dynamic range of these small sensor digitals is so limited that an exp. error of half a stop can toast the highlights or block up the shadows.


----------



## winduptoy

Here's a few shots of my geometry aid and living room HT. (I have a very understanding spouse.)











*The DVE Pattern*










*The vinyl and sharpie geometry screen*










*How she's hangin'*










*How she's hangin' part 2.* DIY mount to floor joists. If you look up in the cavity in the ceiling, you will see the metal pipe which will draw the hot air off the PJ when I get my hushbox built.










*The exhaust for the warm air into the hallway.*

My bathroom is just above this and I just had the floor up to redo the plumbing, so the ventilation is done on this end.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16478860
> 
> 
> QUOTE Mr Bob
> 
> It's the camera that can't pick it all up without changing the camera's settings. The display is doing just fine. Which is why screenshots, while an incredible medium, completely essential to this thread and VERY telling, don't always tell the whole story!
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> So why not change the cameras settings to compensate?
> 
> Lower the cameras contrast in the sample you showed to keep whites in check and expose to correct shadow details?
> 
> Project adjusted image to compare to actual film image retake, compare etc etc. until they look close enough.
> 
> I know if the camera is without settings you are limited to what can be done.



Adjusting the exposure time is not the way to compensate for light levels on the screen regardless of whether it is digital or CRT. This is done using contrast settings in the camera which are aperture priority for multiple shots (if an option) or adjusted until the image is not loud like the examples bellow where contrast adjustments were not an option. Underexposing the image will not expose the entire range and it will appear flat. For shadow details you want to adjust your f-stop. Another problem often ran into for compact digitals (not often digital SLRS) is that the color bit is often too low.


Example with some contrast on the left image and then a scene with more contrast on the right image. These are of a Benq w5000 with low hours on the lamp and a 106" Da-lite HP screen. The movie is Yes Man.


Camera - Olympus A402 X200,D560Z,C350Z

exposure bias - 0 step

f-stop - 3.3

exposure time - .63 seconds

ISO - 128

Focal length - 7mm

Max aperture - 3.4


----------



## winduptoy

Looks like you've got both ends blocked up in both photos. How are you setting your black level with the PJ?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16478816
> 
> 
> Wow Mike! Looks like you've had a good day! That's getting really close. Blue cast on the gain is gone, I can make out a little detail on the near blacks, black level looks good. looks like grayscale is getting close too. (see beard). You must be happy...and tired.



No, I simply moved the exposure one notch.


I don't spend a lot of time playing around with camera settings. To me it is what it is. I take a number of shots and post a few of them.


This is the first time in awhile that I've had a projector on the ceiling in my HT that I'm going to labore to setup properly. And since I'm in no hurry, mainly because I spend most of my time tweaking the video chain and source device, that I prefer to make sure I'm pleased with everything else before I do the finals. I'm of the school that the source should be decided before the setup. With the discovery of the Fury2 and how well it performs to get the best 1080P performance, my choice for a source device is now decided.


I'm thinking by the end of the month, I should have things were I want them. And that's when I'll get back to this thread with my better shots. For now, I really like posting as I go..


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16479359
> 
> 
> Looks like you've got both ends blocked up in both photos. How are you setting your black level with the PJ?



The camera does not have an option to capture in RAW and the photos always have blocks in them. I don't think it captures well at 2048 x 1536 for a 4 megapixel digital camera. The camera was on clearance for 50% of the price tag. The other camera I have tried with I get lines instead of blocks. I'm getting a new camera soon but if it is related to these settings please let me know. I could move back the projector from the screen some. The projectors settings are:


Brightness - 50

Contrast - 50

Manual iris - 0

Dynamic iris - on

Gamma - 2.8 (close to the same as dynamic mode)

Lamp settings - Whisper mode


Hours on the bulb at the time of the photo was around 300 hours and I'm now at near 610 hours. I noticed that the highlights while watching began to stop causing eye strain more near 400 hours. I was very close to getting another CRT projector but I was very limited with the area in the back of the room. I still have my NEC 6PG+ and for the most part I had similar problems with screen shots. The biggest difference I see is that shadow detail is more difficult to capture but while maintaining the uniform brightness of the screen is now more simple. I have since moved the screen more closer and the new one is mounted near the same distance as my previous projector was. The technique I used with my CRT screen shots was to place my hand in front of the camera for a split second during the exposure to prevent the blooming and overexposure. I think some are in this thread already.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16476579
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.. I remember those shots, which could be a CRT reference.



Stop it big dog. Your gonna make me blush.










Hey man, how about if I make it a plan for the east coast meet to hang with you at your place for some screen shots?










Cliffy


----------



## winduptoy

Steve;


I'm sorry for using too vague a term. I used the term 'blocked' when I should have used 'crushed'. Anyway it looks like you have lost your near white and near blacks in both shots. I was curious to know how you were setting your black level, (DVE PLUGE, Avia, THX Optimizer or something else.) You should be able to display 4% above black distinctly.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16479781
> 
> 
> Stop it big dog. Your gonna make me blush.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey man, how about if I make it a plan for the east coast meet to hang with you at your place for some screen shots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Dude, that would be great. And that would also give me the motivation to really wrap things up with the theater.


What about bomrat, is he also coming to the east blend?


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16479783
> 
> 
> Steve;
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for using too vague a term. I used the term 'blocked' when I should have used 'crushed'. Anyway it looks like you have lost your near white and near blacks in both shots. I was curious to know how you were setting your black level, (DVE PLUGE, Avia, THX Optimizer or something else.) You should be able to display 4% above black distinctly.



I thought my projector was good to around 10% above black. I will take out the DVE disk again soon. Also, I am not sure it is possible to get 4% black on my 106" HP (2.8 gain) with any projector. I'm sure an 8" CRT would do much better and two 8" would near match it for lumens. When I tried the grayscale bars with the THX optimizer at 40 hours I could make out the last one but it was just barely visible. I could still adjust the shadow behind the THX but the background looked more gray than black. I think the DI is probably crushing much of the blacks. If it is still looking crushed after 1000 hours on the lamp I may start to have second thoughts about my chosen screen gain. I have thought about making my own but since I sit 7 1/2' from the screen I worry about the screen surface being visible. I use 0 sharpness but on occasion there is a DVD that I will try and adjust it with. I use no clarity enhancements and the up-scaling to 1080P at 60P with 3/2 pull-down is done by a Toshiba XA2 which is what I mostly watch for now.


I bought the fifth element of DVD but it's not the superbit. There is the EE on it but it looks good to me and the black levels don't disappoint much. There are some other movies it just will look awful half the time or the first layer of the disk looks all washed out and the next layer looks fine. There is a bit more brightness on the walls that is lighter than the level of black I see on the screen and the DI does not always adjust well with the occasional pumping effects. Many times it seems that the black level in the movie is lighter than the bars encoded in the movie. The above images are a pretty close representation of what black bars will look on the screen but that can sometimes change throughout. I am planning HT version 3.0 already where instead of moving my theater to a new home I move it back to the original but to a much larger room. I will have to wait and see.. I know I will have those good CRT like blacks or actual CRT again someday.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16478860
> 
> 
> So why not change the cameras settings to compensate?
> 
> Lower the cameras contrast in the sample you showed to keep whites in check and expose to correct shadow details?
> 
> Project adjusted image to compare to actual film image retake, compare etc etc. until they look close enough.
> 
> I know if the camera is without settings you are limited to what can be done.



I think you are missing the point about trying to photograph something with such a high dynamic range such as a top notch CRT projector.


Digital sensors have been attaining progressively higher resolutions but the one quality of an image which does not benefit is its dynamic range. This is particularly apparent in compact cameras, as these are more susceptible than ever to blown highlights or noisy shadow detail. However, even my Canon EOS 5D dSLR with full frame sensor and a plethora of lenses and adjustable settings still cannot accurately capture the dynamic range of my own CRT blend setup. Some scenes simply contain a greater brightness range than can be captured by current digital cameras-- of any type.


I have an 'exaggerated' example for you to help better show my point:











If displayed on my CRT setup, and you were able to witness it first hand, you would see an even greater dynamic range and depth. BUT, trying to take a photo of my setup, would be problematic. Adjusting apertures or shutter speeds to capture the low end detail of the archway would give you this:











You can see the detail in the archway but now the outside sky and white building looks over contrasty and whites are crushed. I can see even more detail on the archway on my setup, so I can adjust for greater exposure and open the aperture one f-stop:











More low end details are evident, but now we are making the outside scene even worse. Lets go to the other end, and try and reduce exposure (lower shutter speed or smaller aperture) to show off the high end range of the scene. Going down two f-stops now and we get this:











But as you can see, due to the high dynamic range, we have now lost all the low end detail! So, lets see if we up the exposure and only lower by one f-stop this time and we get this:











So as you can see, regardless of which aperture setting I choose, I can only really capture the low end range well or the high end range well, but not both! Again, this is an extreme example but I think it illustrates high dynamic range very well.


----------



## Kevin 3000

Gino AUS

Thanks for your time in explaining dynamic range inadiquicies from digital sensors.


Check this link out apply to your CRTs photographic technique (no excuses) to showoff the true capable dynamic range of the PJ









http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16481082
> 
> 
> Gino AUS
> 
> Thanks for your time in explaining dynamic range inadiquicies from digital sensors.
> 
> 
> Check this link out apply to your CRTs photographic technique (no excuses) to showoff the true capable dynamic range of the PJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html



I was just trying to illustrate a point.










I can take a series of photographs at different f-stops and use Adobe Photoshop to create a HDR image. (High Dynamic Range). But this will only show you the different parts to the scene better, it will NOT give you the same effect to the actual depth and dimensionality which is experienced in person, not to mention you are probably viewing these images on a display device with a smaller dynamic range anyway.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16481453
> 
> 
> I was just trying to illustrate a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can take a series of photographs at different f-stops and use Adobe Photoshop to create a HDR image. (High Dynamic Range). But this will only show you the different parts to the scene better, it will NOT give you the same effect to the actual depth and dimensionality which is experienced in person, not to mention you are probably viewing these images on a display device with a smaller dynamic range anyway.



OK point taken, i would like to see say Fifth Element HDR Screenshots adjusted for tonal curve luminances etc compared to standared ones if you can, i will view on my PJ for higher dynamic range than what i am using now......


I do realize that our eyes compared to cameras sees far more so real life viewing is paramount to appreaciate a displays full dynamic range maybe moreso with CRTs than others so if screenshots are your thing then its best to avoid this type of scene...


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16476597
> 
> 
> Ok, if we compare this "reference" to your previous image, which I'm thinking is your RS10. If so, you're right there with the rest of us in still tweaking our setup.
> 
> 
> So with that, it looks like we all have some work to do... but try and remember what Gino posted here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now with your new understanding that there's a difference between CRT and digital through a camera, maybe it'll make more sense to just post your image like everyone else does and try not to set the references for CRT image quality through a camera.



Mike,


His reference in this post is a direct screen grab from bluray.com, not a projector. Although I don't know excactly what program they use to get their screen grabs so it may not be 100% faithful to the disc, but I'm sure it's close.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## dthibode

Got my corner focus issues mostly fixed last night which coincidentally solved 50% of my left edge problems. Looking forward to joining in on the fun again.


Looking good MP! I wish I had a fury2 and a 9" set to play with.


----------



## WTS

Mike,


Just wondering what version of the 5th element are you using, the first bluray copy or the remastered bluray copy?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16489413
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> Just wondering what version of the 5th element are you using, the first bluray copy or the remastered bluray copy?



It's a Blu Ray "extended" version. Not sure when it was released.


----------



## mp20748

Still tweaking when I can....


*Sony Blu Ray - The Mighty Fury2 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1080P*


----------



## shiznit

here are some from me for you to ponder over...

































































for the animation junkies.









































PS I'm NOT sure what photochucket did to my images, but some of them are less than 1/4 size of the original ones I uploaded...


----------



## SteveMo

I uploaded a Fifth Element screenshot from Blu-Ray.com to some different sites and hid the results in a spoiler if you want to do a comparison. I'm not sure what using a resize option would result in but I know that they do not use identical compression for different sites. The difference between them for screenshots is not that significant IMO for the sizes we view here unless you are choosing one over the other for features.

*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) *Mediacom* (this comes with our broadband connection free)










*Flickr Pro* account.










*ImageShack* (optimized without resizing)










*Photobucket*


----------



## Mr Bob

Awesome, shiznit. What display is that again?


b


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16494855
> 
> 
> Awesome, shiznit. What display is that again?
> 
> 
> b



Looks like a digital for sure, I'd guess LCOS/JVC


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16494855
> 
> 
> Awesome, shiznit. What display is that again?
> 
> 
> b



Those look really sharp! Tell us what pj it is please!


----------



## Kevin 3000

A few more for you all to checkout...My camera has not captured the full dynamic range

so to really see it in all its glory you need to see it with your own eyes


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16495309
> 
> 
> My camera has not captured the full dynamic range
> 
> so to really see it in all its glory you need to see it with your own eyes




That's good Kevin. I think you finally got this figured.


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16495286
> 
> 
> Those look really sharp! Tell us what pj it is please!



I can always tell a digital by its gamma and my guess, this is not CRT.

Pictures look great by the way.


----------



## shiznit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/16496003
> 
> 
> I can always tell a digital by its gamma and my guess, this is not CRT.
> 
> Pictures look great by the way.



Thanks! But Photobucket destroyed my images by compressing some of them to hell and beyond and the difference is highly visible...Just right click and get properties on my images and you can see what I mean. Some of my original images were in excess of 400 kb and now they are 40 kb! 1/10 the original size! They were good when I originally uploaded them, but not anymore.. I am not surprised though, nothing is for free! Do they do the same thing to the paying customer's images?


And yes the projector is a JVC-HD750/RS20 connected to a Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Blu-ray player.


----------



## dthibode

Way out of my price range.







But it looks nice.


----------



## Sparky015




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16479444
> 
> 
> No, I simply moved the exposure one notch.
> 
> 
> I don't spend a lot of time playing around with camera settings. To me it is what it is. I take a number of shots and post a few of them.
> 
> 
> This is the first time in awhile that I've had a projector on the ceiling in my HT that I'm going to labore to setup properly. And since I'm in no hurry, mainly because I spend most of my time tweaking the video chain and source device, that I prefer to make sure I'm pleased with everything else before I do the finals. I'm of the school that the source should be decided before the setup. With the discovery of the Fury2 and how well it performs to get the best 1080P performance, my choice for a source device is now decided.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking by the end of the month, I should have things were I want them. And that's when I'll get back to this thread with my better shots. For now, I really like posting as I go..



MP,

I noticed you chose the HD Fury 2 over the Moome card for your Marquee. Any particular reason? I have not seen either in person, but at odds over the decision. I liked HDMI directly into the video chain.


A bit off topic, so my apologies. Just curious if you have any pros and cons to share around your choice of the Fury 2.


Paul


Scratch this. Saw your thread at Curt's site. That answers my question!


Paul


----------



## Kevin 3000

No Stacking just 1 of a JVC-HD350 with 740 Lamp Hours

again seeing with your own eyes is pukka


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shiznit* /forum/post/16496447
> 
> 
> And yes the projector is a JVC-HD750/RS20 connected to a Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Blu-ray player.



lol, I was right in my guess


----------



## mp20748

I think I need another camera. I switched back to my ol HP and it looks like things are a tab better focused. I still have a ways to go to figure out the best settings for the camera...

*Sony Blu Ray - The Magnificent Fury2 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra/MPmods @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

A few more...


----------



## WTS

Geez Mike don't you ever sleep? Just looking at the post time stamp.


Looking good but they still look a little soft to me, but defiantly better than the earlier ones. It must be your camera.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## WTS

Hi Mike,


What BR player did you say you're using? Sony ????


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16504647
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> 
> What BR player did you say you're using? Sony ????



Sony BDP S360


you're not concerned about it making your image soft?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Mike, those shots are really bad. Go back to the begining of this thread to see what I'm talking about.










Your shots then are actually much better than they are now.


----------



## overclkr





















Nuff Said.


----------



## mp20748

Remember what i said in the thread below:




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16479444
> 
> 
> To me it is what it is. I take a number of shots and post a few of them.
> 
> 
> This is the first time in awhile that I've had a projector on the ceiling in my HT that I'm going to labore to setup properly. *And since I'm in no hurry, mainly because I spend most of my time tweaking the video chain and source device, that I prefer to make sure I'm pleased with everything else before I do the finals*. I'm of the school that the source should be decided before the setup. With the discovery of the Fury2 and how well it performs to get the best 1080P performance, my choice for a source device is now decided.
> 
> *I'm thinking by the end of the month, I should have things were I want them. And that's when I'll get back to this thread with my better shots. For now, I really like posting as I go..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



And so that you'll know... so far, no color balance. and most of the setup has been suspended because I started out with NEW tubes. These are being broke in as I go. Gray scale, black levels, etc.. it's not been done.


just look at how bad the colors are compared to the shots earlier..










trust me, it's going to get there, but until that happens, I'm still posting as I go. And when the tubes break in - showtime.


----------



## SteveMo

winduptoy,


I did my second calibration but have not watched any reference materials yet. It looks like I overshot saturation from what I am used to doing with a recent calibration (without test materials) but nothing too far off as saturation was +35 but ended up at +49. I think that sounds like a significant difference then when I was at 40 hours setting saturation to +55. Tint was as I predicted going from -12 or -10 to instead now where it is at near what looks like -9 to me. I changed 2.8 gamma to 2.6 and lowered brightness from +50 to +47. I used my THX optimizer (with glasses) and checked some results using DVE. I hope this will help prevent the "crushed blacks".


----------



## winduptoy

Changing gamma will probably net you the largest visible gain. Gamma should be around 2.2 - 2.4. Once you get that, it will be easier to set other things. FYI; My measured gamma is about 2.2. Could you post a shot or two next time?


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16508325
> 
> 
> Changing gamma will probably net you the largest visible gain. Gamma should be around 2.2 - 2.4. Once you get that, it will be easier to set other things. FYI; My measured gamma is about 2.2. Could you post a shot or two next time?



The w5000 has a very high quality lamp it is one they use in expensive machines. It also has a great lens. I am maximizing on/off CR and keeping the image dark as possible so as not to wash out dark scenes. My new camera was said by UPS notification to arrive May 20 - May 27. It was 1lb so it takes a little longer to ship and on top of that I'm out in the sticks and everything seems to take an extra day. They have specialized trucks that go out of normal shipping range for such things. I will share some photos next time.


----------



## Kevin 3000




----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16500727
> 
> 
> I think I need another camera. I switched back to my ol HP and it looks like things are a tab better focused. I still have a ways to go to figure out the best settings for the camera...
> *Sony Blu Ray - The Magnificent Fury2 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra/MPmods @ 1080P*



Like the picture of the moggie.


Korben Dallas cat!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16508404



Mine still looks better.


----------



## Kevin 3000

One more for pondering purposes....


----------



## mp20748

Looks sorta washed out to me. Maybe because I'm used to seeing more punch and colors.


Not sure from this monitor that I'm on, but almost all the digital shots look weak and flat.


And why is there never any clarity in the background..... If you really want to give something to ponder, post an image with clarity (detail) in the backgrounds?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16510253
> 
> 
> One more for pondering purposes....


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr

Damn, MUCH MUCH BETTER Mike. Those are some pretty damn sweet shots. Your running the Fury right? How is your image set up?


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16513418
> 
> 
> Damn, MUCH MUCH BETTER Mike. Those are some pretty damn sweet shots. Your running the Fury right? How is your image set up?
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yes, the Fury2 is still in play in these shots.


JB came down yesterday and that second set of eyes let me know the camara was not showing what's on the screen. So we played around abit with the setups on the camera. And I also played with the color space settings in the camera. I've been waiting on an upgraded version of the Fury, so I didn't bother with a lot of things waiting for it to get here, but the few changes yesterday seemed to have done something.


I still have a lot to do with setup, especially color balance...

*Sony Blu Ray - Fury2 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra/MP @ 1080P*


----------



## nidi

Mike, is that 1080P 72 Hz ??


Michael


----------



## dthibode

wow MP, looking alot more focuses now!


----------



## winduptoy

Dude!... I mean Your Dudeness; Lookin' Goood!


----------



## WTS

Hi,


So I'm going to attempt to take some screen shots with my old Canon S400 but I'm a point and shoot kinda guy. Can someone give me some pointers on what settings I should start with to get some decent shots.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16515096
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> So I'm going to attempt to take some screen shots with my old Canon S400 but I'm a point and shoot kinda guy. Can someone give me some pointers on what settings I should start with to get some decent shots.



I'm probably the worst with these cameras, so I'm no help at all. I usually play with them until I get something going.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nidi* /forum/post/16514486
> 
> 
> Mike, is that 1080P 72 Hz ??
> 
> 
> Michael



It's the 1080P 60hz from the Blu Ray player. At present, I don't have a means to do 1080P 72hz from Blu Ray..


----------



## WTS

Thanks Mike.


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16515096
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> So I'm going to attempt to take some screen shots with my old Canon S400 but I'm a point and shoot kinda guy. Can someone give me some pointers on what settings I should start with to get some decent shots.



Hi Walter, fellow canuck almost on the other side of the country;


Put camera on tripod, pause the frame you want to shoot and shoot using self timer (2 sec delay is enough). If your camera does not have manual exp. use night or fireworks setting (so flash won't go off and ruin the shot). Use lowest ISO and highest resolution. For White balance, use Auto or Cloudy. Check image on LCD to see if you are over or under. Make correction and try again. If you can use manual exposure you save yourself a lot of grief. For my CRT, 3-4 sec @ f:5.6 (ISO 80) works for most subjects. Good luck. Looking forward to seeing your shots!


----------



## WTS

Thanks winduptoy,


Yeah I think I'm about a light year away from you.


Thanks for the tips I'll give them a try.


How far do you ususally have the camera from the screen, I assume I should not use any zoom and only wide angle so as not to get any digital zoom affecting the picture.


----------



## winduptoy

Use enough optical zoom to get to the best performing part of the range, usually about 2x the minimum focal length. Better resolution, less falloff and significantly lower barrel distortion. Shoot perpendicular to the screen with camera at same height as screen center.


----------



## WTS

Thanks Winduptoy, the max manual exp is +2 on this camera.


----------



## winduptoy

Manual is: You set the shutter speed and aperture. +2 - -2 is exposure compensation. Use this when the camera's auto exp. won't give you a correct exposure. Light subject on dark background, use -. Dark subject on light background, use +. The camera's automatic exposure will 'see' everything as middle gray. Snow and beach presets tell camera "this is not gray it is lighter, add more exposure (+) Night and sunset presets tell camera; "this is not gray background it is darker, use less exposure (-) If you don't have presets and cannot manually set exposure, you will have to resort to exposure compensation.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16515096
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> So I'm going to attempt to take some screen shots with my old Canon S400 but I'm a point and shoot kinda guy. Can someone give me some pointers on what settings I should start with to get some decent shots.



winduptoy has covered most of this but I would like to add to several points.

using Red Eye Reduction will usually lower dynamic range in the shot. Some point and shoots will be default exposure bias -2, 0, 2 and so on. -1.5 exposure bias will typically have better results than -2 because this may crush details in white areas. If possible, avoid exposure bias. Then there is your ISO. For point and shoots a lower ISO may default to different pixel mapping and may restrict other presets so be cautious when doing this. For the older cameras using a higher ISO (dependent on focal length and the lens) using a higher ISO may allow you to retain certain presets and dependent on the sensor type, whether it is CMOS, CCD, or DSLR will also be critical to ISO settings. For an average camera that is CMOS you may be better off using a higher ISO, especially in low light conditions where problems will be troublesome as chroma info and luma info are captured separately, then combined using the software. The smaller the sensor the more typical it is for them to try and make up for lower light conditions by boosting the captured information after the capture has been taken. A good indication will be that the camera may seem busy much longer than usual. Metering mode should be normal (center weighted average) not spot. If there is an option to choose sharp of soft try booth. Soft will sometimes be best but not typically. On less expensive cameras the fine setting will actually be the normal setting and "normal" will be default to enhance speed. Sometimes using "auto" balance can be best. It is best to try each of the settings because what is really going on in the camera is not always obvious and it will vary so much from different makers. I think I have most of this right..


----------



## WTS

Hi Steve,


Wow, that's a mouth full, I'll try and put all you said into use when I'm gettin git setup. Yes it has exposure compensation -2 to +2, so I'll try 0 like you suggest. The sensor in this camera is CCD.


thanks


----------



## mp20748




----------



## dthibode

MP, is your blue convergence off? Looks like a tinge of blue on the edges in places, or in the eyes on some shots. or maybe that's the grayscale. Maybe you just haven't gotten to that stage yet. Nice face detail in that last shot!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16515964
> 
> 
> The camera's automatic exposure will 'see' everything as middle gray. Snow and beach presets tell camera "this is not gray it is lighter, add more exposure (+) Night and sunset presets tell camera; "this is not gray background it is darker, use less exposure (-)



Isn't it exactly the opposite? With a dark background you'd need more exposure to compensate and grab shadow details that would otherwise be lost. With a bright centerstage you'd need less, to get away from the white clipping that would result if you gave it MORE exposure...


???



b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16518548
> 
> 
> MP, is your blue convergence off? Looks like a tinge of blue on the edges in places, or in the eyes on some shots. or maybe that's the grayscale. Maybe you just haven't gotten to that stage yet. Nice face detail in that last shot!



Yes, it's definitely off, and so is the red really.


I've been working on a few things not related to setup for now, but hope to have all things wrapped up by the end of the month.


You can also see the convergence and stuff in the following shots:


----------



## mp20748




----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16519660
> 
> 
> Isn't it exactly the opposite? With a dark background you'd need more exposure to compensate and grab shadow details that would otherwise be lost. With a bright centerstage you'd need less, to get away from the white clipping that would result if you gave it MORE exposure...
> 
> 
> ???
> 
> 
> 
> b



Try it sometime, shoot a snow scene or a beach scene with a lot of sand (high key). With the camera on auto you will get underexposed pictures. So in the absence specialized presets, you will need to give it more exposure.


Shooting pictures without a flash at a concert or theater or someone sidelit by the light from a window or door, (low key) the camera will see all that dark and give too much exposure for the lit subject. This happens quite often with screenshots, esp. from scope films.


----------



## mp20748

I think I'm getting closer. I'm now done with the electronics, and hope to get back and finish the setup this week.


*Sony Blu Ray - The fantastic Fury2 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

Well, at this point I can say I've completely finished the the video chain, and It looks like I'm seeing what i want to see..










*Sony Blu Ray - Fantastic FuryII - Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1080P*


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16526487
> 
> 
> Well, at this point I can say I've completely finished the the video chain, and It looks like I'm seeing what i want to see..



So you've finally finished with your mods now? I keep trying to buy the latest from you, and then you decide to tweak things even further! I've decided not to keep upgrading them until you've well and truly stopped


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16527548
> 
> 
> So you've finally finished with your mods now? I keep trying to buy the latest from you, and then you decide to tweak things even further! I've decided not to keep upgrading them until you've well and truly stopped



For sure this time I'm actually done....... well, sorta kinda, but of course... no this is actually it.


Let me go into where I'm at now and why I feel there's no need to look any further.


Doing actual mods is very complicated. I say that because you can only go as far as your source would allow you. It's the source that sets your goal. As source devices has gotten better, it has always allowed me to look at things from a different perspective, and things have now changed bid time with the new FuryII.


Also and now when doing mods, it's not always an eyeball thing for me, I now have the electronic gear to look at things on various technical levels. And that allows me to see stuff that was not there in my previous testing.


With that, I've even had to buy more and better equipment. I got obsessed there for awhile, but my intent was to back away from offering the newer and better improvements, to just put my latest efforts into my personal 9500LC. I got to a place I did not want to be known as bringing out version after version. And since I've not been selling the mods since last year, I was supposed to be winding down the mod factory. I put sales on hold to pay attention to a potential noise problem that was in some of my latest boards. I needed to do that before turning the mods over to someone else. I was done with Marquee mods.


Now, with only two things in front of me. One making sure the mods are problem free before turning them over, the second being me finally putting a Marquee on the ceiling for my own enjoyment.


Those two things had me so involved in making sure my final work was flawless, and at the same time, I wanted the best image possible...


That is how I got where I'm at today..











I've managed in the past month to make two improvements that I'm really very pleased with. One is improving on the neck boards (which is the area where i was having the noise problem), the other is getting a much sharper and clearer image. The two are separate, though the neck board improvement did increase the sharpness a little. It's something else i discovered that took things over the top..











Now for something i don't really like going into, but i will for this purpose. First is what I've discovered with the video chain. Keep in mind that during the best years of doing my mods, I've been in consult with a former Electrohome engineer (and still is today) and Scott (tse) at VDC. I think I've done well in finding out as much as possible about the Marquee. And I've been in the presence of both of these guys asking questions first hand. It was a big help, it gave me a good foundation to stand on. And at this point, they both should be proud of me because I think I've out done both of them..










Oh, I'm supposed to be giving a few details... anyway, I think I'll get back to this later this week over on my forum at Curt's.


But briefly and for now. The neck boards I call FAST boards because they bring out the finest little details in the backgrounds.


The second one was an increase in sharpness, which was almost impossible to do without producing overshoot, streaking or edge enhancement. That fix or mod coupled with the faster boards produces an almost 3D image, that my camera is not doing a good job capturing, but it's there.


For instance, check out the last shots. Look at the one where they are in the ball room. Look at the wall in the far back, when you can see the actual color and that it's a wood panel. Also look at the space ship scene. check out the depth of the clouds and the detail in the spaceship.


Also, and even without gamma, where you can see blacks, check out how clean the blacks are, and overall, how noiseless the images are.



It may not show in these screen-shots, but I've never been so proud of my work as I am in what I've accomplished this past week. My latest two changes together are only being shown in the last 8 images on this thread.



I have a bit more testing to do, because I want to make sure things are really stable. And once that's done and you're ready to put your projectors back into service, we'll talk, and I'll send you what you need to make it happen.


Hey, I'm still doing this from a quick and dirty setup. To me that's always the best way to evaluate mods. However, now it's time to dial everything in.


Stay tuned..


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC HD-350 Checkout these colours.....


----------



## nashou66

Two Marquee 8500 Ultra longbows Blended and not Optimally set up yet, Check out these COLORS



















Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000

hd-350 Check THESE out....


----------



## jesusjones

Whats the best way to take good Pictures of your screen.


Every time I try taking some they turn out very poor. What are some good camera setting to take them at??


I've been wanting to put some screenshots here for a while!


----------



## mp20748

not the best transfer, but there are some nice COLORS in there


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16528175
> 
> 
> hd-350 Check THESE out....



Kevin3000, the colors look over driven and alot of the detail in the flower petals is lost. Or the camera just couldn't capture it right.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16528945
> 
> 
> Kevin3000, the colors look over driven and alot of the detail in the flower petals is lost. Or the camera just couldn't capture it right.



I think Kevin has a medium sized lower-gain screen for the 350. The brighter the images the easier they are to photograph. Using compensation in the camera will often exagerate mid-contrast or underexpose saturation. This is common with any camera but a non-digital camera might be more suited. Then there would be the problem of noise, focus, shutter speed and so on. They seem to turn out alright to me from a perspective of what the camera is able to capture.


----------



## Kevin 3000

HD-350 checkout the petals...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16529372
> 
> 
> HD-350 checkout the petals...




Not sure why you keep posting like your have the reference for image quality. Your shots still look weak and flat to me.


Why not just post your images and do so somehow without pushing them as PERFECTION.


To me, your colors look weak. when you can post images showing the pastels, then we know you have color range. So far, the only colors that are really showing are the 3 primaries (and they are a bit weak). Things like yellow, lavender, etc are not like they should be... and all of this is fine. because we're just posting shots. And we understand that the cameras CANNOT show all that's really there. And that includes your camera...


However, while you're in the "my shots are better mode," why not post a few shots showing how well your setup brings out things in the backgrounds. I asked you this before, but you've yet to respond..


----------



## Willie

Maybe I am missing something here. Isn't this the CRT projector forum?


Seems to me posting the JVC pics is a little like posting shots of a BMW in a vintage Mercedes forum.


Willie


----------



## Kevin 3000

mp20748

This thread is called SCREENSHOT WAR!!!!! sorry my shots annoy you - just a bit of fun......










Reference

















MINE


BTW my PJ is not calibrated....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16531112
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> This thread is called SCREENSHOT WAR!!!!! sorry my shots annoy you - just a bit of fun......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MINE
> 
> 
> BTW my PJ is not calibrated....



Yep, these are the kind of shots you should be taking.



You're showing up at a fine restaurant with a McDonald's Happy meal...




I've seen some very powerful digital projectors, and I know there's some powerful digital images out there, it's just that you've not been able to deliver one or any of them.


----------



## mp20748

again, not the best transfer, but not so bad either..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Willie* /forum/post/16531082
> 
> 
> Maybe I am missing something here. Isn't this the CRT projector forum?
> 
> 
> Seems to me posting the JVC pics is a little like posting shots of a BMW in a vintage Mercedes forum.
> 
> 
> Willie



Eh, it's all good as far as I'm concerned. Looks like I'm gonna have to fire up the stack so I can put that JVC to shame.










Cliff


----------



## warrenP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16531551
> 
> 
> Eh, it's all good as far as I'm concerned. Looks like I'm gonna have to fire up the stack so I can put that JVC to shame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



As if it's ever off...


----------



## VPH-G90

I'm in a hurry to have a digital camera to make screenshot of my G90 in 1920x817p72Hz ...


----------



## mp20748

Did someone say Fleshtone?


----------



## biomed_eng_2000

How is the "Reference" generated? Is it a direct screen capture using the "Prt Scr" key on your keyboard?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16531112
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> This thread is called SCREENSHOT WAR!!!!! sorry my shots annoy you - just a bit of fun......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MINE
> 
> 
> BTW my PJ is not calibrated....


----------



## WTS

Mike,


Were do you find these reference shots, I know it's at blu-ray.com but what are they listed under.


Your shot looks on the bright side compared to the ref, also your colours are off too compared to the ref. Of course if you never had ref shot to compare with one would never know your's wasn't the ref.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16532407
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> Were do you find these reference shots, I know it's at blu-ray.com but what are they listed under.
> 
> 
> Your shot looks on the bright side compared to the ref, also your colours are off too compared to the ref. Of course if you never had ref shot to compare with one would never know your's wasn't the ref.



I never look at the REF shots. don't make much sense to me to do the shots trying to duplicate what the reference shows.


I'm firing a 9" Hyped up CRT projector on a 80" wide screen. I have the brightness and contrast set at 50. I'll either have to lower the contrast, or adjust the exposure on the camera to match the REF. The camera adjustment would be the best way to do this, because If i lowered the contrast, it's not the gain I usually would watch. So I prefer to capture the image as it's on the screen. And since I like a lot of punch in the image, that's the way i like to post them.


And 'WHEN' I do get around to color alignment, it's going to be the REF of the meter and not the REF from the website. I'm sure not all the REF from the actual movies would agree with the true calibration results, so adjusting to match a REF other than the REF (color calibration), don't makea lot of sense.


I prefer to just post what I see. It's not like the camera is going to properly reproduce what you see on the actual screen anyway. There's far too many reasons why it's not going to be accurate. Is the camera calibrated. And if so, when was that done?


----------



## WTS

Well that was my next question, just how reference are the screenshots? Of course I would also setup my pj using the colourimeter not comparing it to shots. But having a high quality monitor cal'd how close are the screenshots to what they should look like is the question.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16532612
> 
> 
> Well that was my next question, just how reference are the screenshots? Of course I would also setup my pj using the colourimeter not comparing it to shots. But having a high quality monitor cal'd how close are the screenshots to what they should look like is the question.



Yep, I was thinking the same thing when they started comparing the shots to the REF. Was these shots taking using calibrated monitors, and I doubt very seriously that you can calibrate your monitor and use a single chip non broadcast/movie quality camera and get exact or accurate colors as shown in the REF. And how do we know the REF is to standard?


----------



## WTS

I don't know, you think they actually took a picture of the screen with a camera? I can't see why they(production houses) would do that for their screenshots, doesn't seem like that would be high tech way of doing it. Whynot just do a digital capture and display as a jpeg or whatever other ext. you want.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16532673
> 
> 
> I don't know, you think they actually took a picture of the screen with a camera? I can't see why they(production houses) would do that for their screenshots, doesn't seem like that would be high tech way of doing it. Whynot just do a digital capture and display as a jpeg or whatever other ext. you want.



I'm not sure either, but I doubt if there's a real standard involved in those shots. Why would there be when there's a real means or need for them to be accurate. It's not like the movie houses are posting them for reference, when we know that's not how you get to reference. reference for film and broadcast standards would not be on a screen grab or some shot on a website. that's not how we get our display to reference. nor would a shot posted somewhere be a TRUE reference unless/until it's known how it was produced and what standards were used to make it.


----------



## overclkr






























MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


----------



## biomed_eng_2000

overclkr, absolutely insane!! Props to you.


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *biomed_eng_2000* /forum/post/16532804
> 
> 
> overclkr, absolutely insane!! Props to you.



That flix looks actually much better in his theater than the screen shots.



Mike


----------



## CaspianM

This is a display system to beat if ever. Really nice shots.


----------



## MikeEby

The stacks uniformity is what I find amazing, something you just will not get with a single CRT. While Mike Parkers and my shots look pretty good they do die out on the edges the 9" Marquee to a lesser degree. Where the stack just keeps going.


Here is an example of one from my XG.











Mike


----------



## ImaStar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/16532844
> 
> 
> That flix looks actually much better in his theater than the screen shots.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I think he just cleared out the sandbox. Amazing!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16532774
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!



Cool... been waiting for ya. Let's do this..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/16533218
> 
> 
> The stacks uniformity is what I find amazing, something you just will not get with a single CRT. While Mike Parkers and my shots look pretty good they do die out on the edges the 9" Marquee to a lesser degree. Where the stack just keeps going.
> 
> 
> Here is an example of one from my XG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



No Mike, give me a few days to get this single 9" dialed in, and I'll show you why I'm using an 80" screen. Plus, it's not the foreground that I'm so interested in, it's the entire image that I strive for. I want to bring out everything that's there, and that's what's going to make this thread so interesting..












I still have the setup to do, but I'll still post for now. And since there's strengths and weaknesses with every display type, let's not be so focused on foreground shots. We did well with them with SD, now that HD is here and has been here for awhile, it offers a lot of stuff through out the image. So let's also focus on those shots that also reveal how well a setup RESOLVES that detail in HD. And we can also look at close ups, that's fine with me, but it's the essence of HD that I'd been after since it was made available to us.


Here's one from Dark Knight:


----------



## mp20748

Here ya go.. she has the that pass in her hand, plus the back wall can be seen from both sides of the room:


----------



## mp20748

a few more 1080P shots:


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16532774
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!



Oh wonderful! Just when I thought the nightmares had ended from the triple stack meet.


Supp Big Dog? Pics look great as usual!


wallace


----------



## dropzone7

Hey Don! I'm looking forward to checking out your setup again when meet time comes around. That little Xtra impressed the hell out of me last time.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11505179
> 
> 
> Mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, dude, that's an 8"??????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



mine lol


----------



## nashou66

You Son of @$#%^!!!!!! Nice !!!!



















Athanasios


----------



## VPH-G90

not mine lol this boat is in my city.


----------



## superleo

Not exactly mine either ... but very nice!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## shiznit

jvc dla-hd750 on low lamp, ootb thx mode, 15 minutes tops to setup projector









canon g10 in auto mode, flash turned off.. the shot is a tad over exposed, but you get the idea in details, etc..


----------



## Kevin 3000

HD-350 Uncalibrated only the 1 machine in low lamp mode......


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16541905
> 
> 
> HD-350 Uncalibrated only the 1 machine in low lamp mode......



We can see ! The black color are plugged.

Maybe more sharpness for me.

I often do the calibration on the JVC HD750. To get the same black as the CRT we have to sharply reduce the brightness adjustment which has the effect of blocking the color black.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/16542192
> 
> 
> We can see ! The black color are plugged.
> 
> Maybe more sharpness for me.
> 
> I often do the calibration on the JVC HD750. To get the same black as the CRT we have to sharply reduce the brightness adjustment which has the effect of blocking the color black.



Do you mean crushing blacks - blocking??

This HD-350 has half the contrast of a HD-750...


----------



## nashou66

Cliffs









Kevins










Clifs still wins.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

trying different camera settings...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/16534541
> 
> 
> Oh wonderful! Just when I thought the nightmares had ended from the triple stack meet.
> 
> 
> Supp Big Dog? Pics look great as usual!
> 
> 
> wallace



How's it going Don? Hope all is well with you.


----------



## dropzone7

Okay, so these didn't turn out so hot but what a fun movie! One of my favorites finally on Blu-Ray. This is a Dutch import.


----------



## winduptoy

Hey Dz; those look great! Are you up for posting some from TDK or T5E?


----------



## SteveMo

Here are the screenshots I promised of my BenQ W 5000. They are taken with my new camera. I'm still learning to use it and trying to remember the days of when I used film. These are both DVD's.


----------



## winduptoy

Still working on the neverending project...the main bathroom. Time out to post some TDK shots. I made them a little bigger this time...


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16546440
> 
> 
> Hey Dz; those look great! Are you up for posting some from TDK or T5E?



Thanks!


I posted some T5E a few pages back. I'm just trying to mix it up a little bit with some different movies. I don't have TDK strangely enough. Loved that movie but haven't bought the BR yet for some reason. I'm still trying to figure this camera out too...


Those look nice winduptoy, how were you able to keep the shots large? I think the place I'm hosting downsizes mine. Might have to move them to my paid hosting site to keep full size.


----------



## winduptoy

I'm using photobucket. I have set my import res. at 1024 x 768. I downrez. to 1000 x 750 then export to folder for photobucket to pick from. Since I send smaller size than their max, it goes through unaltered.


I checked out your theater using the link...Awesome!


----------



## mp20748

I'm doing something a little different here with the camera settings

*1080P*
























































Different settings from above:

*1080P*


----------



## dropzone7

Just trying a large one here.


----------



## winduptoy

Dude; that's the worst case of mumps I've ever seen! Looks like the "bigulator" is working just fine. Nice job!


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16552312
> 
> 
> I'm doing something a little different here with the camera settings




I would drop the color setting. Then your pics would look awesome and not oversaturated.


----------



## dropzone7

I tried a manual white balance on the camera for these and I believe it introduced some red saturation.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16552633
> 
> 
> I would drop the color setting. Then your pics would look awesome and not oversaturated.



I don't see where I can lower or adjust the colors in this camera. It's a Canon A560. I'm thinking it's time to upgrade. The canon did well for my 8" machine. For some reason it's either clipping or over satuating things on my 9" machine.


I'll keep looking though, but I don't recall seeing anything the last time I checked.


Later today, I'll try my other camera.


thanks!


----------



## mp20748

these are a few shots that show both over saturation and clipping, but I'm making a bit of progress with the clipping:

*1080P from my Fury and 9" marquee*


----------



## winduptoy

Mike; are you using any gamma boost, or can you adjust the gamma on the source device? It makes a huge difference in the near blacks. I'm just using a point and shoot Canon as well (A650)


A few examples...



















- Will


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16557960
> 
> 
> Mike; are you using any gamma boost, or can you adjust the gamma on the source device? It makes a huge difference in the near blacks. I'm just using a point and shoot Canon as well (A650)
> 
> 
> - Will



Naw, I like what the gamma boosters do, but I don't like what they do to the upper end (100ire) when they do what they do. My choice for gamma correction would be something like what's found in the video processors, that'll let you adjust that lower range without effecting the higher range.


So since that's not available, I stay away from the other method of doing it. Already my image is clipping at the higher range when I'm trying to capture the shots. I can imagine what would happen with the gamma boost.


Plus, I prefer a more linear low end, oppose to the low end not having a perfect ramp (steps). When watching film, I looks so much better when the lower end is linear.


One day, I'll play more with the gamma boost thing, but for now. It looks much better on my screen than in the shots.


----------



## mp20748

In your two examples for instance to show what I was saying previously, there's a lot of light in between the darkness and brighter areas that I'm sure is not there in the original.


On my screen and it can also be seen in my shots. Say for instance the shots from the Bond movie showing the car sliding sideways. Compare my shot to Dropzones. Notice the blackness of the car. And notice with my shot, there's no light (or haze) anywhere in the shot. The car shows to be a purer black. And I'm thinking that's not going to be so easy to get with gamma boost, especially when you push the entire lower end up towards the brighter end.


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16557978
> 
> 
> Naw, I like what the gamma boosters do, but I don't like what they do to the upper end (100ire) when they do what they do. My choice for gamma correction would be something like what's found in the video processors, that'll let you adjust that lower range without effecting the higher range.
> 
> 
> So since that's not available, I stay away from the other method of doing it. Already my image is clipping at the higher range when I'm trying to capture the shots. I can imagine what would happen with the gamma boost.
> 
> 
> Plus, I prefer a more linear low end, oppose to the low end not having a perfect ramp (steps). When watching film, I looks so much better when the lower end is linear.
> 
> 
> One day, I'll play more with the gamma boost thing, but for now. It looks much better on my screen than in the shots.



Have you tried any of the low-end gamma boosters that are designed to only impact the lower brightness levels? I have the moome EXTHD with a built-in adjustable gamma boost to the low end and it works great at bringing up the low levels. It has no impact at the higher brightness levels. Next time I do a calibration run, I'll do it with and without the gamma boost to show the effect (or lack thereof) on the higher brightness levels.


I believe some of the other gamma boosters, like the new GammaX for the Fury2, also only effect the lower IRE levels and are adjustable as well, but since I don't have one I can't verify this.


Bob


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citation4444* /forum/post/16558029
> 
> 
> Have you tried any of the low-end gamma boosters that are designed to only impact the lower brightness levels?
> 
> 
> Bob



I'm not aware of any of them not effecting the upper range, so I've stayed away from them. I would like to try one if they exist.


If you look at my shot of the car, the low end looks nice, but also notice that white line in the street and the blackness of the street. I take it that Dropzone also has gamma boost, but I'm not liking how that white line looks in his shot.


When you push the entire range outside of the IRE window, sure the lower ends looks good, but you've also destroyed your dynamics. It no longer looks like film.


Turn of the colors (if you can in your camera), or check out a very good quality B/W movie wit the gamma boost.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16558058
> 
> 
> I'm not aware of any of them not effecting the upper range, so I've stayed away from them. I would like to try one if they exist.
> 
> 
> If you look at my shot of the car, the low end looks nice, but also notice that white line in the street and the blackness of the street. I take it that Dropzone also has gamma boost, but I'm not liking how that white line looks in his shot.
> 
> 
> When you push the entire range outside of the IRE window, sure the lower ends looks good, but you've also destroyed your dynamics. It no longer looks like film.
> 
> 
> Turn of the colors (if you can in your camera), or check out a very good quality B/W movie wit the gamma boost.



MP










DZ


----------



## dropzone7

Mike is correct, I am using gamma boost through the Moome XGFULLHD card. I'm also projecting onto a 120" diagonal screen so I could probably get punchier images if I sized that down. I'm using an 817p resolution that I set up using my DVDO VP50. I need to go back to my original camera settings and try the shot of the car above again. I was using "cloudy" for white balance preset before and the last few images were with a manual white balance setting.


Mike, I love your shots and I know you are the Marquee god but it would be nice to have you or a real pro tweak my projector one day. I do what I can but it's still so over my head really.


----------



## winduptoy

Just tryin' to keep up with you guys...QOS


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16558840
> 
> 
> Mike, I love your shots and I know you are the Marquee god but it would be nice to have you or a real pro tweak my projector one day. I do what I can but it's still so over my head really.



Your shots look good. You're shooting on a larger screen and that would explain why your camera may not be capturing all that you see. The gamma thing, yes. It's not going to be easy to keep that very precious low end with gamma boost.


I don't see a need for a pro, my setup is till basic. I'm waiting on the newer version FuryII because dial everything in.


But one day when I'm in your area, I'd like to stop be and maybe I could give you a few pointers.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16562507
> 
> 
> Just tryin' to keep up with you guys...QOS





Your car image better represents what I was talking about with pushing the entire IRE window up. You have a bright and clear white, but the lower range is still also elevated. You'll want to bring out the deep blackness in the car while at the same time, show what the asphalt should look like (it should be darker).


----------



## mp20748

Check out the street and the black rail in this image:


----------



## mp20748

My over saturated color problem..


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16562507
> 
> 
> Just tryin' to keep up with you guys...QOS



Very nice winduptoy!


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16562896
> 
> 
> Your shots look good. You're shooting on a larger screen and that would explain why your camera may not be capturing all that you see. The gamma thing, yes. It's not going to be easy to keep that very precious low end with gamma boost.
> 
> 
> I don't see a need for a pro, my setup is till basic. I'm waiting on the newer version FuryII because dial everything in.
> 
> 
> But one day when I'm in your area, I'd like to stop be and maybe I could give you a few pointers.



Mike, that would be awesome. You are most welcome to hang out any time. Just say the word.


----------



## lordcloud

MP










DZ










WT


----------



## WTS

Hi Mike,


Well if you want to do gamma boost and not screw up the white levels then you should be using Moome's board.


But you like the fury2 so you're stuck without the gamma, or you could wait for Moome's new board that will be coming out as it it will be no different than the fury2 but it will have a workable gamma circuit which won't screwup the whites. I should be getting a test unit fairly soon to try out.


----------



## Mr Bob

Joe Barnhart took some pix on the 9 year old Pioneer 510 Elite CRT RPTV I calibrated for him recently, Superleo says I should post them here, so here's a couple of 'em -



b










[/url]











[/url]


----------



## winduptoy

Bob, that's just smokin'! I'll bet he's one contented dude.


----------



## WTS

It has a few spots with convergence problems but other than that it looks great.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16564972
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> 
> Well if you want to do gamma boost and not screw up the white levels then you should be using Moome's board.
> 
> 
> But you like the fury2 so you're stuck without the gamma, or you could wait for Moome's new board that will be coming out as it it will be no different than the fury2 but it will have a workable gamma circuit which won't screwup the whites. I should be getting a test unit fairly soon to try out.



Say Walt,

it effects more then just the whites, the lower end of the blacks are also elevated.


It would be nice to be able to dial up a particular section of the lower end, and not just the entire lower end.


----------



## WTS

Hi Mike,


Yes that is true, but that's what it's design does in order to allow the real low blacks to be obtained it's necessary to raise some of the upper blacks so you can turn down the brightness on your pj and not loose the midblacks. It's not the perfect solution but it's an inexpensive way of making it somewhat better. Of course it would be better if you could select what range of IRE you want to change and by how much but that would have to be done in the digital domain.


As for the whites Moome's board brings the whites back to normal (100ire = .7vpp) by adjusting the overall gain after the gamma boost.


Actually if you do a gamma curve using HCFR you will see that you can get the PJ gamma to track the proper gamma curve almost perfectly right down top the low end ire. I had mine track down to 20/15 ire pretty darn close.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16564972
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> 
> Well if you want to do gamma boost and not screw up the white levels then you should be using Moome's board.
> 
> 
> But you like the fury2 so you're stuck without the gamma, or you could wait for Moome's new board that will be coming out as it it will be no different than the fury2 but it will have a workable gamma circuit which won't screwup the whites. I should be getting a test unit fairly soon to try out.



Which new Moome card are we talking about? As far as i know, his 1.3 card had adjustments for low end gamma bump and also white point.


----------



## WTS

Yes his last 1.3 version has those adjustments, the new version will have those also as well as some other adjustments.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16567275
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whites Moome's board brings the whites back to normal (100ire = .7vpp) by adjusting the overall gain after the gamma boost.
> 
> 
> Actually if you do a gamma curve using HCFR you will see that you can get the PJ gamma to track the proper gamma curve almost perfectly right down top the low end ire. I had mine track down to 20/15 ire pretty darn close.



I disagree here. If you raise the entire IRE window and then lower the overall gain (CONTRAST). What you've really done was shrink the IRE window. you'll no longer have full IRE!


And that diminishes the video dynamics of the signal, with a raised lower end.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16567379
> 
> 
> Yes his last 1.3 version has those adjustments, the new version will have those also as well as some other adjustments.



Interesting, I wasn't aware he had a new one in the works, I was considering ordering the 1.3 cards but may hang out for this. Is this discussed in his forums? Do you know what improvements he has made over the existing 1.3 card?


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16567392
> 
> 
> I disagree here. If you raise the entire IRE window and then lower the overall gain (CONTRAST). What you've really done was shrink the IRE window. you'll no longer have full IRE!
> 
> 
> And that diminishes the video dynamics of the signal, with a raised lower end.



I guess the best way to be certain is to use an external video processor and make these adjustments in the digital domain, where you can precisely choose which individual IRE level to raise or lower as needed.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16567456
> 
> 
> I guess the best way to be certain is to use an external video processor and make these adjustments in the digital domain, where you can precisely choose which individual IRE level to raise or lower as needed.



Yep, and that would be the only way to keep the full IRE window, dynamics and deep blacks, because without those three things, HD will not float (depth) from the screen.


----------



## WTS

Gino,


No it hasn't been discussed yet and no I can't say too much at this time.


Mike, I disagree, it doesn't shrink anything, thinkabout, it's a linear function when you decrease the overall gain.


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16562900
> 
> 
> Your car image better represents what I was talking about with pushing the entire IRE window up. You have a bright and clear white, but the lower range is still also elevated. You'll want to bring out the deep blackness in the car while at the same time, show what the asphalt should look like (it should be darker).



The car is not black (check the subtititles for conformation). As for the asphalt, only fresh stuff is black, most is gray or brownish. It's color also depends on the light source. I'll try backing off the boost a bit, but I find the picture quite filmlike and, although the screenshot don't do a great job of showing it, the blacks go way down (check out the exhaust pipe on the Astin Martin). BTW, I'm using the internal HDMI Moome card.


----------



## winduptoy

DZ, that machine of yours is sharp! What lenses have you got on there?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16567596
> 
> 
> The car is not black (check the subtititles for conformation). As for the asphalt, only fresh stuff is black, most is gray or brownish. It's color also depends on the light source. I'll try backing off the boost a bit, but I find the picture quite filmlike and, although the screenshot don't do a great job of showing it, the blacks go way down (check out the exhaust pipe on the Astin Martin). BTW, I'm using the internal HDMI Moome card.



before last Saturday. I had two of Moomes latest version (1.3) marquee HDMI Marquee cards here. I've had one of them in my Marquee. And I've played with the gamma adjust. So i know first hand what's going on with that method of gamma adjustment.



It raises the lower end!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16567579
> 
> 
> Mike, I disagree, it doesn't shrink anything, thinkabout, it's a linear function when you decrease the overall gain.



You have the external Moome right?


Scope it and get back to me.



I'm not shooting it down it works and it works for so many. I was just responding to me using it. It's not something i want to use in my setup. I'll just deal with CRT's broken gamma until I'm able to fix it without a PC and expensive scaler.


----------



## WTS

Mike,


I have scoped it many times as that's how I set it up to make sure the whites are NOT overshooting. And if you don't think the overall gain reduction is a linear funtion I suggest you go back and reread some our electronics textbooks on the subject. Now the gain boost from the gamma circuit is not going to be linear but the overall gain reduction circuit on the Moome card is. Yes of course it raises the lower end, that's the purpose of the circuit. Maybe you should have a chat with Scott about the gamma circuit and how it works.


----------



## Gary Murrell

my first screenshots in 9 months or so, still a little bit more to tweak out and a few minor issues to correct, don't know if the HDFury2 is going to suite me or not


DVDO VP50pro, HD-SDI sources, HDFury2 being fed 4:4:4 YPbPr, Box1021 gamma, Barco 1209s/e with P19LUGs & colored c-elements, GT17 lenses, Belden minicoax mod and full Eisemann mod package:



















-Gary


----------



## WTS

Show something with the ringing on the left side. They look pretty good but maybe try some of the ones Mike has used to get a comparison going.


----------



## MikeEby

Those look great Gary!...Glad you got that bad boy working!


----------



## lordcloud

Love those shots Gary.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16566674
> 
> 
> It has a few spots with convergence problems but other than that it looks great.



The blues tend to glow and/or bloom on certain cams on CRT RPTVs. If it's blue conv you're talking about, that glowing/blooming is not visible from any regular viewing distance on the display itself.


I've photo'd many displays that have a blue glow to their screenshot images that is not there on the display itself.



b


----------



## Mr Bob

Incredible fidelity, Gary!



b


----------



## winduptoy

Gary; that looks really good! That puppy is sharp!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16568272
> 
> 
> Show something with the ringing on the left side. They look pretty good but maybe try some of the ones Mike has used to get a comparison going.



And when you do, if not already 1920x1080P /60hz. Could you also do a comparison showing them at the same rate that I'm showing mine. Since both of us are running highly modified 9" projectors. I'd really like to see what those mods can do at 1080P /60hz. I've heard much, but this is the first time we get to see some screenshots.


Here's a few you can use for comparison. I'm still waiting on my upgraded FuryII, so I'm not going to really dial things in until it gets here...

*FuryII - Marquee 9500LC Ultra/Special MPmods @ native 1920x1080P /60hz HD-10L Lenses - No gamma - no LUG's*


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16567607
> 
> 
> DZ, that machine of yours is sharp! What lenses have you got on there?



Winduptoy, it's got either HD-144 or HD-145's, can't recall at this moment. They are color corrected lenses for this air coupled machine. They have always been nice and sharp, only limited by my amateurish setup skills really. Center focus is great and starts to break down around the edges, mostly because I'm running an expanded raster and huge screen.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/16568466
> 
> 
> Those look great Gary!...Glad you got that bad boy working!



Nice Gary! Like Mike said, glad to see you are up and running again with that new toy!


----------



## Gary Murrell

thanks guys, I will try and match Mikes and see whats up(Mike is that the BD or HD Kong release?, I have both)


will also try and get some screenies of my issues


the new setup I have is so revealing I am finding even more so than before with my XG 1352LC that there are average PQ sources(HD/BD releases) and then ones that are a league of their own, you get up this far in PQ you wish lots of things would like better than they do, it is unbelievable!!


-Gary


----------



## CaspianM

Gary are you up and running now with no issues?

SS look good.


----------



## Kevin 3000

HD-350 Check these out....


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16570111
> 
> 
> Gary are you up and running now with no issues?
> 
> SS look good.



Caspian thanks, I have a few issues still:


1)horrible left side raster ringing

2)HDFury2 issues, can't get it to take 4:2:2 and the latest version/firmware has screwed up levels that prevent gamma adjustment usage


-Gary


----------



## lordcloud

HD-350 Screenshot










VS!!!


Screengrab


----------



## Citation4444

Here are some screenshots from my stacked Runco DTV-1200's (Barco Cine9's). These are very preliminary as I've got a hodge-podge going at the moment. I can't do Bluray shots as my HDFury2 is not back with its modifications. So, I've got one projector going through my RadianceXE to a moome EXT FULLHD via HDMI and then along to the pj. My other pj is going through a Lumagen HDQ using its analog outputs and then to the pj through a 20ft RGBHD cable. Each projector is grayscale and gamma calibrated with its respective processor. On the input side, I'm using a HDMI splitter to feed each of the video processors. With all this sh!t going on, it's a wonder I'm getting a coherent image at all.


Since I can't do Bluray, these images are from my recorded DirecTV programs. They are not as sharp as Bluray, but they're not too bad. I've got a long way to go with this, but I thought I've stalled enough without screenshots. Sorry about the over-saturated colors on CSI Miami, but you all know that's the way it is on that show.


In the last shot, you can see I'm getting [email protected] windowed, so it's plenty bright. My screen is 110" diag 1.3 gain. All images are at 1920x1080p 60.











































































I'll post some more screenshots when I get my HDFury2 back.

Be easy on me as I'm new to this CRT stuff, and stacking these babies is about all this 68 yr old guy with fading memory can handle.


----------



## Gary Murrell

a cine9 stack? you guys kill me










-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

ok Mike, took me forever to get that shot from FE, here is one:











-Gary


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16574047
> 
> 
> ok Mike, took me forever to get that shot from FE, here is one:
> 
> 
> -Gary




Wow Gary! That's really nice. But do mention what resolution you shot that one in.


I'd like know if that highly modified Barco is actually doing that at 1920x1080P 60hz..


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16574200
> 
> 
> Wow Gary! That's really nice. But do mention what resolution you shot that one in.
> 
> 
> I'd like know if that highly modified Barco is actually doing that at 1920x1080P 60hz..



I am currently running 1920x800px60 in a 2.40:1 sized raster (v size on 03), I have ubber sharp 1:1 vertical patterns from corner to corner, much better than my previous XG 1352LC, I am 100% certain that 1920x1080p/60 would be just as good, I have also checked out 1920x800px72 and I might decide to use it, just as sweet


I just had a JVC RS20 here and this beast in my HT now is naturally sharper, no joke!!


and finally I think if I could get the HDFury2 to take in 10-bit 4:2:2 YPbPr rather than 8-bit 4:4:4 YPbPr then the PQ would improve even more, my previous moome card in my XG rocked at 4:2:2 from the VP50pro


-Gary


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16574464
> 
> 
> I am 100% certain that 1920x1080p/60 would be just as good, I have also checked out 1920x800px72 and I might decide to use it, just as sweet
> 
> 
> -Gary




come on, show us the money....I mean bandwidth..










About an hour ago, I fired up my 9500LC and it's warming up at 720P. I'm thinking to post a few images at that rate, and see what they look like in the shots. I can say already, it's way sharp, but it's all foreground sharpness. And I like to see all that stuff in the backgrounds, so I prefer 1080P.


I don't have a means to do custom resolutions, so I'll either have to do 720P or 1080P... I prefer 1080P.



Oh, are you going to show the problem you're having on the left side of your image? I think I read somewhere that you were going to post an image of that as well..


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16570873
> 
> 
> HD-350 Check these out....



The digital white clip always stands out.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citation4444* /forum/post/16573544
> 
> 
> Here are some screenshots from my stacked Runco DTV-1200's (Barco Cine9's). These are very preliminary as I've got a hodge-podge going at the moment. I can't do Bluray shots as my HDFury2 is not back with its modifications. So, I've got one projector going through my RadianceXE to a moome EXT FULLHD via HDMI and then along to the pj. My other pj is going through a Lumagen HDQ using its analog outputs and then to the pj through a 20ft RGBHD cable. Each projector is grayscale and gamma calibrated with its respective processor. On the input side, I'm using a HDMI splitter to feed each of the video processors. With all this sh!t going on, it's a wonder I'm getting a coherent image at all.
> 
> 
> Since I can't do Bluray, these images are from my recorded DirecTV programs. They are not as sharp as Bluray, but they're not too bad. I've got a long way to go with this, but I thought I've stalled enough without screenshots. Sorry about the over-saturated colors on CSI Miami, but you all know that's the way it is on that show.
> 
> 
> In the last shot, you can see I'm getting [email protected] windowed, so it's plenty bright. My screen is 110" diag 1.3 gain. All images are at 1920x1080p 60.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> I'll post some more screenshots when I get my HDFury2 back.
> 
> Be easy on me as I'm new to this CRT stuff, and stacking these babies is about all this 68 yr old guy with fading memory can handle.



Wow! (!!!!!) I think if I saw that with a Blu-ray reference PQ disc, I wouldn't even be able to get a word out. You're new at this







! To get the geometry, grayscale and focus that far with a single projector takes no small amount of patience and know-how. You did it with two! My hat is totally off to you.


----------



## Mr Bob

Moi aussie!



b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, very nice, let me know the film and time stamp (roughly) and I will see what I can do










-Gary


----------



## WTS

Okay lets have a battle of the 9"ers, where's citation and his Cine9s. I'd love to get in on this but my camera isn't up to the task. After just spending about $700cdn for the new Oppo I don't feel like buying a new camera. Not to mention that property tax is due this month, $2200, ouch.


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16569101
> 
> 
> And when you do, if not already 1920x1080P /60hz. Could you also do a comparison showing them at the same rate that I'm showing mine. Since both of us are running highly modified 9" projectors. I'd really like to see what those mods can do at 1080P /60hz. I've heard much, but this is the first time we get to see some screenshots.
> 
> 
> Here's a few you can use for comparison. I'm still waiting on my upgraded FuryII, so I'm not going to really dial things in until it gets here...
> 
> *FuryII - Marquee 9500LC Ultra/Special MPmods @ native 1920x1080P /60hz HD-10L Lenses - No gamma - no LUG's*




This particular shot is rather common. I was wondering if an LCD screen shot war exists. I did search and bugger all showed up? I guess it thefore doesn’t exist and since I’m running a CRT direct view Panasonic widescreen thou not so wide!


Also an LCD video projector and that wouldn’t really qualify here since its LCD.


I’m going to see if I can’t get a few clean decent shots of this moment that is on freeze on the CRT TV at the moment I’ll warm up the projector and pity, its daytime and I only have part of the windows screened from stray light shining though, I’d have to make the best of it.


But I’d like to know if an LCD screen war LOL screen war exists.


By the way nice shot I take its not region 1 or other blu-ray? The DVD that I'm looking has a texture colour tone that is different to the one on the CRT TV region 2 DVD special edition, compared to CRT video projctor.


Cheers


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/16588871
> 
> 
> This particular shot is rather common. I was wondering if an LCD screen shot war exists. I did search and bugger all showed up? I guess it thefore doesn’t exist and since I’m running a CRT direct view Panasonic widescreen thou not so wide!
> 
> 
> Also an LCD video projector and that wouldn’t really qualify here since its LCD.
> 
> 
> I’m going to see if I can’t get a few clean decent shots of this moment that is on freeze on the CRT TV at the moment I’ll warm up the projector and pity, its daytime and I only have part of the windows screened from stray light shining though, I’d have to make the best of it.
> 
> 
> But I’d like to know if an LCD screen war LOL screen war exists.
> 
> 
> By the way nice shot I take its not region 1 or other blu-ray? The DVD that I'm looking has a texture colour tone that is different to the one on the CRT TV region 2 DVD special edition, compared to CRT video projctor.
> 
> 
> Cheers



There are screenshot threads over in the two digital projector forums. Pretty good pics there.


----------



## overclkr

Kill Bill BD. Triple Stack. 1080P/60hz.


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16588533
> 
> 
> Mike, very nice, let me know the film and time stamp (roughly) and I will see what I can do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



The movie is IRON MAN. Not sure what the time stamp is, but I recall both scenes being near the end of the movie.


And if you have that movie, would you rise to the challenge and post your shots at 1080P?


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16593417
> 
> 
> Cliff




Supreme humungusness like that is totally sick! But it sure is fun to look at. Gotta see that flick. What else can I say Cliff, YOU RULE!


-toy


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16593397
> 
> 
> Kill Bill BD. Triple Stack. 1080P/60hz.




Blimey the texture of that looks so photorealistic. Are you running that as RGB or other?


The blemishes in the skin or make-up as its not real, well it looks real enough to me.


It also looks so nice I can lick the strawberry jam off her face. Well what else can it possibly be.


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/16590024
> 
> 
> There are screenshot threads over in the two digital projector forums. Pretty good pics there.



Yeah so how come I put in search and nothing comes up? Unless I'm selecting the wrong key words, because I must have tried 5 keywords, yesterday.


Okay so now I know where to look , I shall take peek.


Cheers


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16593751
> 
> 
> Supreme humungusness like that is totally sick! But it sure is fun to look at. Gotta see that flick. What else can I say Cliff, YOU RULE!
> 
> 
> -toy



Thanks bro.







Those aint easy shots fo sho.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBLsound4645* /forum/post/16593848
> 
> 
> Blimey the texture of that looks so photorealistic. Are you running that as RGB or other?
> 
> 
> The blemishes in the skin or make-up as its not real, well it looks real enough to me.
> 
> 
> It also looks so nice I can lick the strawberry jam off her face. Well what else can it possibly be.



I'm running RGB to the projectors but HDMI to my ISS Moome card fed from the PS3 to the VP50. Thanks for the kudo's.










Cliffy


----------



## winduptoy

Did a little gamma & grayscale adj. and re-shot a few QOS...



































-toy


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Don_Kellogg

As always, We've found another rock layer lets dig a little deeper. Geez Cliff to say those shots are sick well just doesn't say enough.


----------



## Gary Murrell

very nice guys!!


Mike, I was going to watch Iron Man soon, so I will grab those shots


-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, you've done it again! Nothing like a triple stack to play with, to get you out of bed in the morning. It would be better than coffee for me...


That first shot was TOTALLY realistic, my heart went out to her for all those messy, liquid wounds on such a beautiful face! It took me a minute to come back to reality and realize it was just an incredibly well set up video display I was seeing, and not the real thing!


(Not "just" anything, of course! Who could say "just" about a setup like that!!! My professional compliments to Ken's genius, and to your own!)











I have been finding that the HD from the BDs OP'd by the PS3's I've had access to in my cals have not had the black depth that other stand alone BD Players produce. From my experience, PS3s don't seem to completely capture the blacker than black nearly as well as stand alone units, which is really evident in the HD DVE pluge pattern.


It's not as bad as showed up on some SD-only 480i/p DVDPs in the past, playing the original pluge pattern from the VE DVD - those players were atrocious and REALLY deficient compared to other units of their genre back then, even tho of top quality brand names, some of 'em. I even sometimes saw models with huge differences in the same unit - some of them very high end units - when playing the VE pluge pattern in i vs. p! The players which could not deliver the blacker than black left my eyes really starved for the shadow detail I KNEW was there to be seen!


I'd like your opinion on that. Is it just my eyes, or do you find the same thing? In looking at the dark scenes in your set above, I was questioning their level of clamp-to-black and transparency just a bit, even tho I have only seen your doublestack and not your triplestack. Then I noticed that a PS3 was in the chain as the source.


I know the Moome gamma bump works wonders, but I can't help wondering how much better it could be working if I am correct on this.


So now I'm REALLY curious!











b


----------



## Kevin 3000

Whats this i hear you say ...... No Can`t be,,,,,, Believe it......a digital PJ Nooooooooooooooooo


----------



## winduptoy

Kevin, that's a lot better than the flat lifeless screengrab emulations you were doing a few pages ago. Don't you find watching a movie much mre satisfying with decent blacks? There is a dimensional quality to the CRT picture that has to do with color and gamma that I have yet to see a digital capture. I haven't seen an RS10 in the flesh yet, but the much ballyhooed blacks of the latest generation of LCD still literally pale in comparison to a well set up CRT. As for sharpness, light output and ease of installation; I'll have to take a back seat to you on those counts.

Have you got any of these you can do these shots of?


WALL-E



















CARS











Benjamin Button











-toy


----------



## Kevin 3000




----------



## Kevin 3000

WINDUPTOY as requested...


----------



## winduptoy

Thanks for the post Kevin. Is there a reason you cropped it so much? I picked those frames on purpose as they are a bit of a torture test for clipping, dynamic range and near black detail. There were 2 under the WALL-E header, the 2nd one being from the short; PRESTO.


----------



## JBLsound4645




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16594070
> 
> 
> I'm running *RGB* to the projectors but HDMI to my ISS Moome card fed from the PS3 to the VP50. Thanks for the kudo's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Gotcha RGB mode I’ll take go at that next week on the excuse me, LCD projector, excuse me pardon me.










What does the image look like scaled down to DVD can you do a same shot but with different modes to show how the image transpires from a less than perfect to brilliant looking image?


Cheers


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16598102
> 
> 
> Thanks for the post Kevin. Is there a reason you cropped it so much? I picked those frames on purpose as they are a bit of a torture test for clipping, dynamic range and near black detail. There were 2 under the WALL-E header, the 2nd one being from the short; PRESTO.



Presto`s frame......


----------



## winduptoy

Thanks Kevin!


You are one busy dude. At the rate I'm going, I might make it to 1000 posts before the next ice age hits.


----------



## mp20748

*1920x1080P /60hz*


----------



## Citation4444

MP, I don't know what it is, but your screen shots don't appear sharp to me. Especially that last woman's face. Probably the camera or the camera settings. Are you using a tripod and time delayed shutter release? I'm sure your image is sharper than the screen shots show them to be.


Bob


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mikes shots exude natural sharpness to me, that ubber crispness is hard to capture in a digital image, it is there in person I am sure


ok gentlemen, on to some shots, something special, Big Trouble In Little China BD from the Netherlands, it is awesome!!



















































-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

a couple Blazing Saddles as well, another stellar image



















































-Gary


----------



## winduptoy

Gary;


That streetscape in the rain is awesome!


----------



## winduptoy

Mike;


Your camera isn't too different than mine. Are you using the lowest ISO you can? Make sure the detail is set for superfine as well. It looks like the apparent lack of sharpness could be digital noise. Did you get the Fury II in the chain again yet?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/16600613
> 
> 
> Mike;
> 
> 
> Your camera isn't too different than mine. Are you using the lowest ISO you can? Make sure the detail is set for superfine as well. It looks like the apparent lack of sharpness could be digital noise. Did you get the Fury II in the chain again yet?



The shots are at 1920x1080P /60hz. They are not going to look similar to your shots, mainly because I'm not taking SHARP shots. If you notice the screen shots that I've been taking, they mostly are showing an even level of sharpness through-out the image. I do that because I'm trying to capture the True Nature of HD. So I'm showing sharpness that's not only foreground, but it's equal in the entire image.


The last of these groups of shots the lady is not what I was trying to capture, it was here hair, and the color of her hair.


I've shown that my 9500Lc can properly resolve 1080P /72hz, so I'm not having a sharpness or resolve problem at all. It's just that when being able to resolve 1080P, you tend to focus on things that really represent 1080P being resolved.


So when I look for scenes to shoot, I'm not necessarily looking for something to present how sharp my images are. That's also why I don't take shots of cartoons, or other digitally created images.


The same projector that took the last shots, was the same the projector that took the following shot:











Try doing that particular scene at 1080P and you're understand what I'm saying here...


----------



## Mr Bob




Kevin 3000 said:


> HD-350 Check these out....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will try to do a bigger version of mine sometime soon -
> 
> 
> b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url]


----------



## mp20748

I gotta give it to you Gary. Not only are your shots clean, you know what scenes to go after..










Looking real good there!


----------



## mp20748

*Momento - 1080P*


----------



## ILOVEMYHDTV

HI ALL, interesting. I thought I was Obsessive, but I guess if I had those type of toys. I would play and play play.......


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16600252
> 
> 
> Mikes shots exude natural sharpness to me, that ubber crispness is hard to capture in a digital image, it is there in person I am sure
> 
> 
> ok gentlemen, on to some shots, something special, Big Trouble In Little China BD from the Netherlands, it is awesome!!
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> -Gary



F'ing AWESOME Gary. You got that boy up and running VERY WELL. LOVE the colors!


----------



## overclkr

Interesting comparison:


----------



## CaspianM

Why the blood clot looks so dark on the JVC? Her nose, eyes..

I don't see any bruse on top of her eye on Cliff's either. Different frame!!?

Cliff's photo's are just more real and trasparent on these shots let alone in actual.


----------



## dropzone7

I was having some problems getting the camera to focus tonight, of course I decide to post the shots larger so it shows even more.


----------



## deanzsyclone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16604051
> 
> 
> Why the blood clot looks so dark on the JVC? Her nose, eyes..
> 
> I don't see any bruse on top of her eye on Cliff's either. Different frame!!?
> 
> Cliff's photo's are just more real and trasparent on these shots let alone in actual.



Not only that, but look at the pink in the skin tone, and how it's so defined in cliffs shots, that's what really stands out to me at first glance, where the pink is a sort of wash on the other image. I don't think that's a bruise? Maybe cliffs is so good at showing detail we can now see it's not??


----------



## Kevin 3000




overclkr said:


> Interesting comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redone after a small gamma tweak as you are throwing out comments...


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16617350
> 
> 
> I was having some problems getting the camera to focus tonight, of course I decide to post the shots larger so it shows even more.



classic looking wonderful XG image, which is a good thing










very nice, I wish NEC had made a 9" XG with LUGs, it would have killed everything else, I miss many of the adjustments on the XG already










-Gary


----------



## mp20748

I've been on an exhaustive projector the past week or so. It's now time to get back to s few more shots while chillin.


Oh, had to change out the video cables that connects the VIm to the neck boards. Seems like the new cables may have made a difference. The cables were giving to me - thanks William!


*FuryII - 1080P - Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16603687
> 
> 
> Interesting comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redone after a small gamma tweak as you are throwing out comments...



Much better. It's obvious that we are using two different frames here. I think the color in her left upper eyelid is a seroius indication.


----------



## mp20748

Just a few quick shots this morning, I'm trying to check out the changes I've noticed when changing out the cables. I'm liking what I'm seeing on the screen, but will try and show them here later. I'll need to run out this morning but will be back with a warmed up Marquee, and will be ready to take some serious shots.


Oh yeah...I'm sure now I have the Ultimate system in place, just gotta dial it in better. I'll do that later once the sun goes down........


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, did you get the latest HDFury and check what I was talking about with the levels?


-Gary


----------



## Kevin 3000

HD-350 Reposted with a more 3D look.....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16627709
> 
> 
> Mike, did you get the latest HDFury and check what I was talking about with the levels?
> 
> 
> -Gary



No, it has yet to get here..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16629499
> 
> 
> HD-350 Reposted with a more 3D look.....



Really..... go clean your glasses and take another look, or take a better look..


----------



## SteveMo

Gary great looking job on those last shots the on/off looks excellent.


----------



## mp20748

Still not able to find the time to dial this boy in..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16629499
> 
> 
> HD-350 Reposted with a more 3D look.....



Hehe, we gots our selve's a screenshot war now baby.


Very very nice. I like.










Cliff


----------



## truffleshuffle83

maybe its me but i just dont really see the point of ****ting up the thread with the jvc pics? theres screenshot threads in every section of the forum. i come here to be blown away by a triple stack, not see more of the same jvc shots i can see in my basement or in the 3000+ forum. i mean if your in here with a sim lumis or c3x maybe


----------



## Kevin 3000

overclkr

Thanks man you have a good eye + i regard your pics as reference only second to mine










mp20748-truffleshuffle83

Well......what can you say........


----------



## mp20748

forgot this one..


----------



## mp20748

Oh, and let us move on to something new and different.....


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16632304
> 
> 
> overclkr
> 
> Thanks man you have a good eye + i regard your pics as reference only second to mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mp20748-truffleshuffle83
> 
> Well......what can you say........



Watch it buddy. Don't make me pull out the big guns.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16632341
> 
> 
> forgot this one..



Hi Mike.

Is it the dcam bowing the image? On the lower right convergence is way off as well. Since you enjoy screen shots I would buy a nice dcam (if you already don't have one) to show your work. If you have one nice one and the bowing come from the camera, you need to change the zoom and camera distance to find the sweet spot to minimize the bowing. In camera sharpening seem off too if your focus is spot on. What camera are you using?

I engoy seeing screenshots eventhough they are precieved far from real.










I found out it is Canaon Powershot A560 which is a good PS.


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, what are those last ones from? wonderful!!


-Gary


----------



## lordcloud

CRT vs Digital


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16600252
> 
> 
> ok gentlemen, on to some shots, something special, Big Trouble In Little China BD from the Netherlands, it is awesome!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16606810
> 
> 
> HD-350 Big Trouble in Little China


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16633371
> 
> 
> Mike, what are those last ones from? wonderful!!
> 
> 
> -Gary




Journey to the center of the Earth


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16633259
> 
> 
> I engoy seeing screenshots eventhough they are precieved far from real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found out it is Canaon Powershot A560 which is a good PS.



That's correct, screenshots are not a true representation of what's viewed on the screen.


I have another camera that produces a sharper shot, but it not as good in all other regards.


Sometime soon when I do get around to replacing the convergence board and getting everything dial in, at that time I hope to have something much better to do the shots with. And I'm also aware of the barrel effect caused from not having the zoom in it's sweet spot. But that's not that important at where I'm at with things now.


----------



## lexx21

In the side by side comparison you can see how the digital is losing some of the detail. Take for instance the light shade at the right side of the screen. You can't see the scroll work in the digital pic. That may just be the camera though. Also take a look at the figurines on the shelves. Again, that may also be an effect of the camera.


Dunno... crt looks warmer and more natural. Digital looks... well.. fake. My personal opinion here.


----------



## mp20748

HD comparison... look way down at the bottom of each scene and compare how clear those things are at the very bottom. And also check out the COLORS (at the bottom) and how well both images define the tiniest of details..


*"It's all about performance.. Got Marquee?"*..










Kevin's Digital:










Mine:


----------



## fluevog

These don't do the screen justice. It's really difficult to capture just how good it looks.... probably close to impossible.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fluevog* /forum/post/16635050
> 
> 
> These don't do the screen justice. It's really difficult to capture just how good it looks.... probably close to impossible.



That's very true. Sometimes we loose sight of the fact that this thread is really just for fun. There are so many variables with screens, projectors, cameras, room lighting, etc. Often I will snap a shot with my camera and the preview image on the camera looks great. Sure that's a few inches by a few inches and then I load it on the computer and the limitations of the camera and my knowledge of the camera rear their ugly heads. Out of focus, washed out, over or under exposed, so many things go wrong. Every once in a while I get a picture that pretty closely represents what I see on screen but that is very rare.


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16636492
> 
> 
> That's very true. Sometimes we loose sight of the fact that this thread is really just for fun. There are so many variables with screens, projectors, cameras, room lighting, etc. Often I will snap a shot with my camera and the preview image on the camera looks great. Sure that's a few inches by a few inches and then I load it on the computer and the limitations of the camera and my knowledge of the camera rear their ugly heads. Out of focus, washed out, over or under exposed, so many things go wrong. Every once in a while I get a picture that pretty closely represents what I see on screen but that is very rare.



exactly the same for me, you just have to take a bunch and get the ones that do look great


-Gary


----------



## CaspianM

Most dcams have poor low light and dynamic range performance and CRT with low lumen makes it hard to capture its true dynamic range. This is why I have avoided to post anything except a few. Digital pj's actually look better due to its higher lumen and cartoonish over saturated color. But if you know what to look for you will see most screen shots suffer from clipped white/ crushed low end and un-natural color. Still it is fun imo. So bring them on guys.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16632304
> 
> 
> overclkr
> 
> Thanks man you have a good eye + i regard your pics as reference only second to mine



Oh man, this guy cracks me up, is he serious? He thinks his little JVC toy can out do a triple stack G90 with gamma tweaks setup by Ken Whitcomb?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

I've run out of movies and scenes, so it's back to the HTPC. I'll start with a few test patterns..










*HTPC - 1920x1080P @ 72hz*


----------



## mp20748

I've moved the camera back for these in hopes of eliminating the barrel effect (didn't work). And now I'm also showing how bad my setup is. I'm not about to dial things in until I change out the convergence board (see bottom left corner).

*HTPC - 1920x1080P @ 72hz*


----------



## mp20748

*HTPC - 1920x1080P @ 72hz*


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike! dude!!


unbelievable


also wondering, screen size? lenses?


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16645866
> 
> 
> Oh man, this guy cracks me up, is he serious? He thinks his little JVC toy can out do a triple stack G90 with gamma tweaks setup by Ken Whitcomb?



tell me about it, the RS20 couldn't outdo my ubber modded single Barco 1209s/e(I know I have one here!), so I can only imagine


-Gary


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16652936
> 
> 
> tell me about it, the RS20 couldn't outdo my ubber modded single Barco 1209s/e(I know I have one here!), so I can only imagine
> 
> 
> -Gary



So show us the differences.....or let me guess your camera is not up to the job.....well mine is and seeing is believing


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16653770
> 
> 
> So show us the differences.....or let me guess your camera is not up to the job.....well mine is and seeing is believing



the differences will be in my upcoming RS20 review for the Home Theater Forum










-Gary


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16645866
> 
> 
> Oh man, this guy cracks me up, is he serious? He thinks his little JVC toy can out do a triple stack G90 with gamma tweaks setup by Ken Whitcomb?




FoSho







I still think the best screens on here where those pirates of carribean shots overclker took, i think it was from a jvc.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16653895
> 
> 
> the differences will be in my upcoming RS20 review for the Home Theater Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Looking forward to it - hope you have compared using higher gamma on the JVC...


----------



## Zues

Found the pirates. Lets see a crt compete with these.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16654084
> 
> 
> Found the pirates. Lets see a crt compete with these.



The problem, at least to me, with digital, is that it in every way looks digital. it looks impressive to the average person, but all you have to do is look further and you begin to see the areas they fall down in.


One huge area for me is palpability. It's similar to audio. I have many friends with impressive systems(I'm a crazed audiophile), but none of their systems have the reach out and touch, hear the volume, weight, and physicality, of instruments quality, that my time and phase correct, balanced amped, treated room, balanced passive TVC'd system can muster.


These digital shots are impressive, they're very "sparkly". But they don't have the palpability of Mike's shots. Mike's shots have their issues for sure, compared to Cliff's and Gary's for instance, but boy do Mike's shots give me that feeling that if I were to see it in person, I'd crap my pants becasue all of the information is there on screen.


So without further ado.....look at these shots and see if you can see that everything in them looks solid, for lack of a better word. Mike has some of the most 3D shots you'll ever see. Also look at the richness of color. I am always impressed. They don't have the sparkly sharpness of most digital shots, but it's easy to tell that all of the information on that disc, is there to see. At least to me.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11498068





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11511837
> 
> 
> A few changes later:


----------



## Zues

CRT











Digital


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/16654696
> 
> 
> The problem, at least to me, with digital, is that it in every way looks digital. it looks impressive to the average person, but all you have to do is look further and you begin to see the areas they fall down in.
> 
> 
> One huge area for me is palpability. It's similar to audio. I have many friends with impressive systems(I'm a crazed audiophile), but none of their systems have the reach out and touch, hear the volume, weight, and physicality, of instruments quality, that my time and phase correct, balanced amped, treated room, balanced passive TVC'd system can muster.




With audio many still like analog vinyl. So with video if you really hated digital why don't nobody watch vhs tapes instead of blu-ray?


----------



## lordcloud

I think we've established Mike isn't a photographer by trade. None of us are.....unless some of you are, then ignore that last bit.










Mikes's shots lack the sharpness of a digital shot and even some of the CRT shots, but I highly doubt they are lacking in picture information or sharpness in person. As a matter of fact, I've seen shots of CRT sets that have his mods installed and they are sharp as a tack. But this is the Screenshot War thread, so all is fair. However, I still feel that your digital shots are lacking in depth, dimensionalty, and richness.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16655230
> 
> 
> With audio many still like analog vinyl. So with video if you really hated digital why don't nobody watch vhs tapes instead of blu-ray?



Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Vinyl is in no way "analogous" to VHS when it comes to quality. No one can or would claim VHS is superior to Blu Ray in any capacity, save for cost. Vinyl vs. CD is something totally different.


----------



## Zues

It's different but still similar. Digital always=better resolution for audio and video. We shoot the screens with a digital camera, digital blu-ray medium, it's not hard to tell the differences between analog crt and digital. Crt will never compete with resolution against a digital. You really can't capture what crt does well, but it's not gonna win no screenshot war.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16655610
> 
> 
> It's different but still similar. Digital always=better resolution for audio and video. We shoot the screens with a digital camera, digital blu-ray medium, it's not hard to tell the differences between analog crt and digital. Crt will never compete with resolution against a digital. You really can't capture what crt does well, but it's not gonna win no screenshot war.



Digital always equals better for resolution for audio and video? No, not really. We won't even get into CD recording being cut off at 20/20, and it all comes down to preference anyway. I see the merits of both, and I say get as good a TT and digital media player(sacd,cd) as you can get, and be happy.


Digital has a certain look to it, and it can be a very clean soundng and looking medium, but clean doesn't eqal more resolution. The projector Mike is using has the same amount of resolution of any digital projector you have seen shots of in this thread. 1080p son!


And you are right, it's not hard to tell the difference between digital and CRT that's for sure. As I said, it all boils down to preference. I'd love to have a digital projector that looked as good as CRT for me, but I haven't yet. Maybe a Lumis from what I'm reading in that forum. But I'm poor, no Lumis for me.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16655610
> 
> 
> Crt will never compete with resolution against a digital. You really can't capture what crt does well, but it's not gonna win no screenshot war.



Ok, then we'll proceed at my next level..











Kevin, post the two shots I have below, they deal specifically with "resolution":


----------



## mp20748

A few more for you to ponder...


BTW, they're all at 1920x1080P 60hz


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16656213
> 
> 
> A few more for you to ponder..



This one looks like it's giving us the finger. Actually just you guys.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/16655867
> 
> 
> Digital has a certain look to it, and it can be a very clean soundng and looking medium, but clean doesn't eqal more resolution. The projector Mike is using has the same amount of resolution of any digital projector you have seen shots of in this thread. 1080p son!




I know they are 1080p. But still does not have the perfect focus digital has. One nice thing with dig is perfect geometry, focus, right out the box.. Even if you could obtain perfect geometry with crt, no way it can be focused as good. It's gonna look slightly blurry no matter what.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16656583
> 
> 
> I know they are 1080p. But still does not have the perfect focus digital has. One nice thing with dig is perfect geometry, focus, right out the box.. Even if you could obtain perfect geometry with crt, no way it can be focused as good. It's gonna look slightly blurry no matter what.



so are we moving away from Image Quality and putting the "Fucus" on things like "perfect geometry" and Focus?


Is CRT slightly Blurry, or is Digital too sharp...?


----------



## Prehjan

Clearly some us us do not understand the meaning and the concepts associated with the word "resolution"!


...and use it in a very loose matter to mean detail!


It all comes down to what a reference picture is suppose to look like...and when it comes to reference PQ : CRT is still KING!


Look at the colors/3 dimentionality and details in the MP pics. (not to mention the dark scene details!)


The day this so called "digital" technologies starts spitting out pictures such as the ones above will be the day I will retire my marquees.


Lets not even get into the digital is better than analogue thing. (...again clearly some of us here use that term very loosely!)


Plus: Anytime you go "digital" something is added! (audio or video! in the audio's case the sounds gets a processed feel to it! PCM is still king when it comes to sound reproductions and guess what "digital is king" guy...there is no need for anything more...voice for example is only in the 0 to 64 range and for that you don't need a IBM 390 mainframe to reproduce properly! as far as video is concerned less is always better when it comes to that reference PQ that I was talking about! I am not even gonna get into the compression and such that occurs with digital!)


To me analogue and digital are subjectively the same as long as they provide me with the PQ that I have grown accustomed to!


It is all physics! and with all things in the scientific real there are no easy answers/definitions! (...and nothing falls into neat little categories!)


MP great job on the PQ, It seems like you have managed to squeeze that last ounce of quality out of that tired old "obsolete" M8500...my hat is off to you sir!


Martin


----------



## mp20748

here, a few more for you...


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16656619
> 
> 
> so are we moving away from Image Quality and putting the "Fucus" on things like "perfect geometry" and Focus?
> 
> 
> Is CRT slightly Blurry, or is Digital too sharp...?




I find those flat panel lcd's too sharp. But a lcos projector? No. I'm not saying digital is king, just saying why on a still photo crt won't win vs a exact shot of digital, the dig will be clearer everytime.


----------



## Prehjan

oh and before anyone starts calling me a "digital hater" understand this...I have no issues with "digital" what so ever!

What I have an issue with is that I just don't like all of the "compress this and uncompress that/code this and decode that" that occurs in most of the digital realm!


I am an engineer and deal with this technology everyday..I implement it and on some better days create it!


So I understand what goes on behind the scenes better than the average Joe.


I feel that the cleanest and least "messed with" method to deliver it is the best way to go!


Martin


----------



## Zues

Does front projection crt have 'hot spots' like rear projection crt's? Another pro for digital is the whole screen has even illumination corner to corner.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16656808
> 
> 
> I feel that the cleanest and least "messed with" method to deliver it is the best way to go!
> 
> 
> Martin




I agree about clean because crt is not pixel based. Motion blurr and pixelization is not a problem.


----------



## Kevin 3000

As requested


----------



## mp20748

Excellent Kevin. Just what I was expecting... now let me ask you this one. what happen to the wide range of colors that's missing from your image?


your colors are flat and not natural looking.


try another...


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16656911
> 
> 
> Does front projection crt have 'hot spots' like rear projection crt's? Another pro for digital is the whole screen has even illumination corner to corner.



That is not true. Digital pj's have uniformity issues too but it varies.

Did I mention mis-convergence!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16657014
> 
> 
> That is not true. Digital pj's have uniformity issues too but it varies.
> 
> Did I mention mis-convergence!




Does that mean convergence is better on a crt?


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16656933
> 
> 
> As requested





Looks like the whites are clipping on the crt. But the colors on the crt, green to be exact, looks deeper and more natural.


----------



## Kevin 3000

BTW mine are really close to THX color as intended by the director.....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16657099
> 
> 
> Looks like the whites are clipping on the crt. But the colors on the crt, green to be exact, looks deeper and more natural.



Yes, I'll need a better camera for sure..


----------



## Kevin 3000

Gone a bit quiet Digital got your tongues


----------



## BFJ 96

I know you guys won't mind the RP CRT shots would ya.....









*Black Hawk Down BR*









*Aeon Flux HD DVD*









*Swordfish HD DVD*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16657282
> 
> 
> Gone a bit quiet Digital got your tongues



Well, I asked above about the colors in your shot. And things got quiet, but that was fine, because Zues answered for you:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16657099
> 
> 
> Looks like the whites are clipping on the crt. But the colors on the crt, green to be exact, looks deeper and more natural.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16657282
> 
> 
> Gone a bit quiet Digital got your tongues



Mehhhh... triple stack!!!!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16657070
> 
> 
> Does that mean convergence is better on a crt?



Simple answer is yes. I have a FPJ1 (aka JVC rs2) and a Nec 1352LC and by far my Nec is better.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16657070
> 
> 
> Does that mean convergence is better on a crt?



I guess it depends on who does the convergence and how capable your display is!


...but overall most CRTs are more convergeable as oppose to a fixed LCD/DLP/LCOS that has no convergence capabilities! (...short of being in the manufacturing process and tweaking it there! ...even then it will probably not be best to do it!)



On another note:


...to the folks posting the picture...could you clearly mark the digital/whatever technology and CRT ones? (...not that I can't tell the difference! ie: washed out colors...unnatural flesh tones etc...but it would be less effort differentiating them! ...by me and others looking at them!)


Personnaly I like the color reproduction that these beasts are capable of...not to mention the dimensionality and the ability to do motions as naturally as possible! (...I guess that last one could not be shown in a pic! LOL)


Martin


----------



## mp20748

*Marquee 9500LC Ultra - 1920x1080P 60hz*


----------



## Prehjan

...thats what I was talking about!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/16657336
> 
> 
> I know you guys won't mind the RP CRT shots would ya.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Swordfish HD DVD*



Hey, do that screenshot right next time.


























Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

*Marquee 9500LC Ultra - 1920x1080P 60hz*


----------



## overclkr

Yummy.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16593397
> 
> 
> Kill Bill BD. Triple Stack. 1080P/60hz.


----------



## overclkr

Even more yummy.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16593417
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff


----------



## Gary Murrell

my new CRT is more naturally sharper than the RS20(the big kicker here), has better color, has better convergence, better black level, better uniformity, better black level detail and has more brightness due to the RS20 being unwatchable without a ND filter of some kind


the list goes on and on and this is no joke!!, it took a modded 9" CRT for me to see the light, my XG1352LC looked great(RS20 was much closer to it) but nothing like this


-Gary


----------



## Prehjan

Wow


check out catwoman! ...she has got a "chassis" on her!


yummy indeed!!!


Gary I would have thought that you had "seen the light" a while back!



Martin


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16657407
> 
> 
> Well, I asked above about the colors in your shot. And things got quiet, but that was fine, because Zues answered for you:



So the greens look more natural and deeper on your crt in the pic in question so why the big difference from THX color as in my pic are crts unable to match colors as THX calibrated because i thought all displays are judged by this standard?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16659752
> 
> 
> So the greens look more natural and deeper on your crt in the pic in question so why the big difference from THX color as in my pic are crts unable to match colors as THX calibrated because i thought all displays are judged by this standard?



Dude,

what's your reference for THX?


Keep in mind, there's no way you're going to compare anything to something someone claims is an image of reference.


In order for that image to be a reference, it would have to be followed by How and What means, method it was produced. And it would also have to prove that whatever equipment used was calibrated and when. And that calibration method would have to comply with Standards set forth by the movie industry.


So by posting screen grabs, they mean absolutely nothing. And until you can also go beyond tags and titles, you're not going to get much attention on this. Everything about what we recreate or reproduce, for the most part, it follows STANDARDS.


And of all the industry standards to reference, you chose THX..










Your colors are flat and a bit washed out. If that's the standard, then there would be no need for us and the industry to be so concerned about true and precise colorimetry. because when the colors are true having the right primaries and secondaries and what we're now able to get with 10 and higher bits, things are just so much more pungent. The color palate has increased with the later digital signal processing and bandwidth capability. Because true and well reproduced 1080P is pregnant with colors.


Not only are we able to see colors jump off the screen, the colors should have a wider range, meaning there should be a ton of various pastels that was not possible before. Also, the image when doing 1080p would appear to float off the screen................these are just some of the things available with better processing and true 1080P. You're image seem to be showing just the opposite.



And when dealing with Component digital, which is what our modern HDTV signal is derived from, the key is proper transcoding (done in the chips). That is why we have had so many color space issues dealing with the different manufactures. And when the transcoding is properly done, the colors and 3d effect follows. HD is not only sharpness, it's depth and colors. And in order to recreate depth, a lot of things would have to be on target. And when that happens, again, the image not only would have more and better colors, it sorta floats off the screen.....THX, whatever their reference is, it has nothing to do with what I'm been saying here..


----------



## Kevin 3000

mp20748

My Reference is this whats yours??
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...10-Review.html 


Just did these..........


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff, you're about to hit your 100th page. Congrats, my friend!











b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16659872
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> My Reference is this whats yours??



I'm with Zues. I'm looking for and expecting things to be more NATURAL.


After all, isn't that the goal with FILM?


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16659880
> 
> 
> I'm with Zues. I'm looking for and expecting things to be more NATURAL.
> 
> 
> After all, isn't that the goal with FILM?



I see so whatever looks natural to you thats how it should be....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16659891
> 
> 
> I see so whatever looks natural to you thats how it should be....



Yes, because I walk and live in life. I have a reference for how things should look. When the people who set the references do their thing, their goal is to get us as close to what we see with our eyes as close as possible.


So the CIE charts, SMPTE, NTSC, HDTV, etc, all provide references so to get us as close as possible to the NATURAL.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16656911
> 
> 
> Does front projection crt have 'hot spots' like rear projection crt's? Another pro for digital is the whole screen has even illumination corner to corner.



Front pj CRT only has hot spots when too high a gain screen material is used. This actually applies to any pic from any front pj, be it CRT or digital. Fixed pixel RPTVs have a glittery speckling effect that is really distracting, and which is nonexistent in CRT triple-gun RPTV tech.


Cliff, for example, uses a CLOTH screen, with no mirror-reflectivity at all. Unlike beaded or silver-coated screens, which if they are very high gain and thus very reflective, can have huge hotspots that can wander around the screen, following you as you change your position in front of the screen.


A low enough gain screen will not have any hotspotting at any position you place yourself in the audience, and will still generate plenty of light level, as the triple stack shots show, in spades.



b


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16659901
> 
> 
> Yes, because I walk and live in life. I have a reference for how things should look. When the people who set the references do their thing, their goal is to get us as close to what we see with our eyes as close as possible.
> 
> 
> So the CIE charts, SMPTE, NTSC, HDTV, etc, all provide references so to get us as close as possible to the NATURAL.



So back to my origional question my green is to a natural THX standard in the pic posted earlier so whats yours, what you think looks right? What is your reference based on?


----------



## Mr Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaspianM

That is not true. Digital pj's have uniformity issues too but it varies.

Did I mention mis-convergence!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16657070
> 
> 
> Does that mean convergence is better on a crt?



It CAN be.


CRT triple gun convergence can be dialed in like nobody's business. Triple chip fixed pixel, which started with LCD, has to be very carefully converged at the factory and then fixed in stone, and is not always done right. As the owner, you cannot change that. It has to be done by a tech, who has to go in and mechanically realign them.


I saw some Runco DLP pjs at CES that were very badly converged, much more so than I would ever allow in my CRT calibrations. Most fixed pixel QC allows for the triple chip images to be one pixel off. These were 2-3 pixels off, and were really noticeable when you were not all that far back from the screen. To not see them you had to be a lot farther back than you want to be, on that fine an image. But when I mentioned it, they just shrugged it off and said they were all like that. Not quite what I had expected Runco to say...


The early single chip DLPs had massive convergence error, but it was only out at the edges. The inside areas were fine, but the refraction of the inferior optics on those early designs caused what LOOKED like convergence error the farther away you were from center. And they were not owner/alignable, like the crosshairs are on CRT triple gun tech.


And this was on single-chip tech, with color wheel! No triple chip alignment challenges, and yet there still had error that looked like convergence error.


The triple chip monsters of that time period could be aligned right and had superior optics, but again that was not doable by the consumer.


In later years the refraction error in those early DLPs was markedly remedied by using multiple mirrors and thus lengthening the throw distance on the fixed pixel RPTVs. And using better lenses.



b


----------



## Mr Bob

Hats off to ya, Cliff! Truly great thread!



b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16659919
> 
> 
> So back to my origional question my green is to a natural THX standard in the pic posted earlier so whats yours, what you think looks right? What is your reference based on?



You picked the easiest color (green foliage) to support your argument.


Since it's near Summer, there should be plenty of green foliage near or around you. Check it out against what you see in your image. that was the point that Zues made (natural).


And be mindful that Zues is also from the pixel camp..


----------



## mp20748

Check out the watermelon in this shot, the camera is zoomed right in on it:


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16659942
> 
> 
> You picked the easiest color (green foliage) to support your argument.
> 
> 
> Since it's near Summer, there should be plenty of green foliage near or around you. Check it out against what you see in your image. that was the point that Zues made (natural).
> 
> 
> And be mindful that Zues is also from the pixel camp..



OK everyone chuck the standards out the window adjust to whatever looks natural...come on you know thats BS...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16659937
> 
> 
> Hats off to ya, Cliff! Truly great thread!
> 
> 
> 
> b



Whoo hoo!!


----------



## Mr Bob

Keep in mind that crispness can be a big issue with CRT vs. fixed pixel digital. When someone touting fixed pixel digital comes in praising the crispness of his FIXED PIXEL picture, he does not have any time and energy or any other work put into that crispness.


We CRT owners work very hard to align our convergence - and our focus, and our astigmatism, and our scheimpflug - to capture the excellence that CRT has always been capable of, capturing that luscious depth, most of which comes from deep, pure blacks. Cliff's triple-stack shots show how truly 3 dimensional CRT can really be.


When someone brings in a crisp fixed pixel display where he has not put ANY work into its being crisp, we just kinda let him be, because he is obviously not one of us.


We are artists, we are CREATING the crispness you see in our pictures. It takes a lot of dedication to get to where some of these CRT shots have arrived at, here in this thread, from CRT owners. They are absolutely dazzling, and their owners deserve a lot of credit. CaspianM, Cliff, Gino Aus, Gary Murell, Mike Parker...


Fixed pixel skips all that. It bypasses that whole challenge. So we really don't feel much of a kinship with owners who want to bring their panels or other fixed pixel displays in and call attention to how crisp they are. CRT owners can take personal credit for how crisp and lifelike their images are. Fixed pixel digital owners cannot.


I know this discussion is presently centered on colorations and not crispness, but I just had to point all that out anyway...












b


----------



## mp20748

*Marquee 9500LC Ultra - 1920x1080P 60hz*


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16659985
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that crispness can be a big issue with CRT vs. fixed pixel digital. When someone touting fixed pixel digital comes in praising the crispness of his FIXED PIXEL picture, he does not have any time and energy or any other work put into that crispness.
> 
> 
> We CRT owners work very hard to align our convergence - and our focus, and our astigmatism, and our scheimpflug - to capture the excellence that CRT has always been capable of, capturing that luscious depth, most of which comes from deep, pure blacks. Cliff's triple-stack shots show how truly 3 dimensional CRT can really be.
> 
> 
> When someone brings in a crisp fixed pixel display where he has not put ANY work into its being crisp, we just kinda let him be, because he is obviously not one of us.
> 
> 
> We are artists, we are CREATING the crispness you see in our pictures. It takes a lot of dedication to get to where some of these CRT shots have arrived at, here in this thread, from CRT owners. They are absolutely dazzling, and their owners deserve a lot of credit. CaspianM, Cliff, Gino Aus, Gary Murell, Mike Parker...
> 
> 
> Fixed pixel skips all that. It bypasses that whole challenge. So we really don't feel much of a kinship with owners who want to bring their panels or other fixed pixel displays in and call attention to how crisp they are. CRT owners can take personal credit for how crisp and lifelike their images are. Fixed pixel digital owners cannot.
> 
> 
> I know this discussion is presently centered on colorations and not crispness, but I just had to point all that out anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Chirp in why don`t you on the standards debate to set the record straight natural vs standards as you seem unbias and level headed







.....


----------



## BFJ 96




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16658206
> 
> 
> hey, do that screenshot right next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://smxscreen.com/images/smx-screen-shot-24.jpg
> 
> 
> cliffy



I owe you-1 cliffy...


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16660028
> 
> 
> Chirp in why don`t you on the standards debate to set the record straight natural vs standards as you seem unbias and level headed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....



The reference today for color decoding is what SMPTE has set forth.

The rest is a compromise. HDTV color supports wider gamut but at this time most conversion is done complying SMPTE-C (C stands for CRT) standard. That is why CRT can do a better job vs. fixed panel for the time being. Forget THX!


----------



## jherring69

I don't even know why you are posting in this thread Kevin. It is for CRT's. I have seen all of your screen shots in the over 3K thread, and I have posted many there myself. Some shots look great and some look bad, both your's and mine. Trying to use screenshots to show "Reference" colors etc. is ridiculous.


Also, I haven't checked in on the JVC RS threads lately but the THX mode on the new projectors was far from perfect. That may have been fixed with the latest firmware, I don't know. Even the review of the Panisonic shows that the THX mode isn't spot on accurate.


Anyways, I'm heading back over to the Digital forums where I belong. I will leave the CRT's to the guys that have the talents to own them.


Jason


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16660415
> 
> 
> The reference today for color decoding is what SMPTE has set forth.
> 
> The rest is a compromise. HDTV color supports wider gamut but at this time most conversion is done complying SMPTE-C (C stands for CRT) standard. That is why CRT can do a better job vs. fixed panel for the time being. Forget THX!



So you do adhere to a standard so natural looking comments were BS thanks for clearing that up...THX is my standard reference.....


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16660689
> 
> 
> So you do adhere to a standard so natural looking comments were BS thanks for clearing that up...THX is my standard reference.....



I am not really following your question.

SMPTE is the standard.

What is THX?? What is basis for it to be chosen? I am lost!

With JVC rs20 the color gamut is close but the rest of JVC line pj's are mess in color.

I can see it myself with my rs2 clone.

You want color accurate output you will need to buy an out-board box and have someone to calibrate your rs-350.

Lets stick to the screenshot!


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jherring69* /forum/post/16660564
> 
> 
> I don't even know why you are posting in this thread Kevin. It is for CRT's. I have seen all of your screen shots in the over 3K thread, and I have posted many there myself. Some shots look great and some look bad, both your's and mine. Trying to use screenshots to show "Reference" colors etc. is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Also, I haven't checked in on the JVC RS threads lately but the THX mode on the new projectors was far from perfect. That may have been fixed with the latest firmware, I don't know. Even the review of the Panisonic shows that the THX mode isn't spot on accurate.
> 
> 
> Anyways, I'm heading back over to the Digital forums where I belong. I will leave the CRT's to the guys that have the talents to own them.
> 
> 
> Jason



DUH....whats this todo with anything, i am responding to mine is more natural/greener than yours - keep up


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16660882
> 
> 
> DUH....whats this todo with anything, i am responding to mine is more natural/greener than yours - keep up



Most of color corected CRT's have very close color gamut production compared to over saturated JVC's. Let's put it to rest.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16660897
> 
> 
> Most of color corected CRT's have very close color gamur production compared to over saturated JVC's. Let's put it to rest.



We are comparing screenshots you have gone off topic....SCREENSHOT WAR thread......


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16660882
> 
> 
> DUH....whats this todo with anything, i am responding to mine is more natural/greener than yours - keep up




The whole goal and intent with REFERENCE is to get things as close to NATURAL as possible.


In other words, when calibrated to REFERENCE, one should expect things to be more natural looking...far from what you're trying to get us to adhere to, when you present your images as being THE REFERENCE for image quality, when in fact, they look flat and colorless.....or maybe weak in colors would describe things better.



And the common thing to clear this up was the color green that I mentioned to you earlier. Your greens are terrible off. And that's one of the worst colors to not have on target. When you can't get green to vary in steps and degrees, from green pastels to deep greens in foliage and grass - something is seriously wrong.


Your colors are weak and your sharpness is not better than what we're doing with CRT, and you constantly keep mentioning "screenshots war" - at what point will you realize a flat image with weak colors will not qualify you to win anything. maybe you should wave the white flag and follow Jasons' advice and go back to the digital forum.


It's getting really ridiculous, that you keep posting images for us as a REFERENCE to follow..










We're just having fun posting images, period!


----------



## Kevin 3000

A REFERENCE pic being used from post 500..take a look....









Mine










I am just having a bit of fun keep your shirt on mp20748, better mine if you can...looks very close to reference to me


----------



## WTS

I have a problem with anyone trying to determine colours or saturation or shadow details when viewing any movie. The final hues/staturation etc. is all determined by what the director etc. wants to see in the final production and it usually had nothing to do with whether it looks natural or not.

So to say any projector looks more natural because of its colours or hues or saturation is alot of guess work on what said person thinks it should be which couldn't farther from what it was meant to look like in the final production house.

Seeing more detail is another thing all together.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16661563
> 
> 
> I have a problem with anyone trying to determine colours or saturation or shadow details when viewing any movie. The final hues/staturation etc. is all determined by what the director etc. wants to see in the final production and it usually had nothing to do with whether it looks natural or not.
> 
> So to say any projector looks more natural because of its colours or hues or saturation is alot of guess work on what said person thinks it should be which couldn't farther from what it was meant to look like in the final production house.
> 
> Seeing more detail is another thing all together.



So if someone refers to the color green being more natural looking, they could be off the mark, because the director, etc may have wanted the green to look purplish or some other color. Is that your point?


To me, a good point of reference makes perfect sense. And what better reference to use than grass...



discussions over other colors and pastels I agree, but to simply say that the grass or foliage looks natural should be honored. And if I'm wrong here, then there's no need to add C elements to our projectors and properly calibrate the colors, since it all depends on what the director wanted us to see. therefore we'll not know what the colors should really look like.


The director sets the reference


----------



## Kevin 3000

mp20748

Depends how the display has been calibrated and what standard used - all i see on my THX calibrated display is the color green same as i posted in my pics, unnatural to you but correct....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16661730
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> Depends how the display has been calibrated and what standard used - all i see on my THX calibrated display is the color green same as i posted in my pics, unnatural to you but correct....



So were are you going with this... do you want us to acknowledge you as being the only person on this thread to claim a perfect setup and that we should see your setup as being the REFERENCE for what we see?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16661730
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> Depends how the display has been calibrated and what standard used - all i see on my THX calibrated display is the color green same as i posted in my pics, unnatural to you but correct....



Kevin look at yours! Side of his face is supposed to be yellow not green if that is actually a reference picture.

Yellow obviously is a secondary color vs green to be primery but shows how JVC skews the color on broad basis. JVC green is over saturated and its hue shifts toward yellow by measurements and it is a documented. It also has over saturated red. Now it is all may be a bit nitpicking but to calim its accurate and natural is nonesense.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16661946
> 
> 
> Kevin look at yours! Side of his face is supposed to be yellow not green if that is actually a reference picture.
> 
> Yellow obviously is a secondary color vs green to be primery but shows how JVC skews the color on broad basis. JVC green is over saturated and its hue shifts toward yellow by measurements and it is a documented. It also has over saturated red. Now it is all may be a bit nitpicking but to calim its accurate and natural is nonesense.



Thats why i said close to reference post better if you can talk is cheap seeing is believing.....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16662045
> 
> 
> Thats why i said close to reference post better if you can talk is cheap seeing is believing.....



Ok, I'll try this again... None of us, or nobody can claim anything near reference when using the cameras that we're using. It's clear that what we see on the screen will not show in out shots, so how could we possible makes such claims?


And if so, we'll have to verify that the camera and system used for the shots were perfect or calibrated for perfection, which would mean they would have to be Broadcast Quality HD cameras. And would have to have calibration stickers on it, also showing who and when (date) calibrated.


Since that's not the case, NO ONE should claim a calibrated image. And that's why we just post along with our single chip point and shoot cameras. because we all know that it's impossible to claim "reference" using them.


And that also applies to the screengrabs... who's to say that they are in fact reference? Because when making those claims under the present "references" the same would apply as it does to cameras. The technical data MUST support the claim.


----------



## CaspianM

That picture you posted is not remotely close to your posted "reference" picture.

In fact green cast is all over your picture.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16661893
> 
> 
> So were are you going with this... do you want us to acknowledge you as being the only person on this thread to claim a perfect setup and that we should see your setup as being the REFERENCE for what we see?



Thanks but no i would prefere if you got off your high horse and confess your sins


----------



## jesusjones

I think you all need to go outside and Take pictures of your wives flowers or just your yard.


Call that "your" reference. Then throw it up on your movie theatre screens and compare.


If your projector truly is natural looking they should come out the same....Right?



Rudy


----------



## WTS

Mike get real, of course the director would never want the grass to look purple. But the point I'm making is they have control over what they want the hues/saturation etc to look like and no it doesn't always have to or well necessarily look it might in the real world. Geez even you should know that.


Really, you think all grass looks the same or is the same colour, I think you need to get more. I play golf at least 2 times a week and I play on alot of different courses and not all courses use the same type of grass which means not all grass is the same colour green. Now do you know what type of green is in any particular scene or for that matter what colour it's suppose to be, come on. Yes of course we all know grass is suppose to be a nice green, not to dark not to light and lush, but that's in a perfect world/picture.

Of course I'm not bringing up these points to defend the digital world because as most know I have a Zenith 1200x(cine8 Onyx). I'm just saying stop being so stubborn and naieve about all this.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16662164
> 
> 
> Thanks but no i would prefere if you got off your high horse and confess your sins



When I start posting images that supposed to represent REFERENCE, and then showing how my shots are right there with that reference shot, it's then that I'll need to confess..










Anyway, here's another shot from a not yet calibrated CRT projector...


Oh, and it's also done using a cheap point and shoot camera:


----------



## Paul Butler

I'm rather enjoying these CRT/Digital comparisons! A couple of years ago the idea that a digital could even show a half-decent picture was laughable, times have changed somewhat to say the least.


Keep it up guys, just don't let it get too serious though, this is meant to be FUN.


Good idea about the reference picture jesusjones, not sure how it would pan out for any of us - I'd be afraid to try in case it turned out nothing like what I see out my window !


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16662160
> 
> 
> That picture you posted is not remotely close to your posted "reference" picture.
> 
> In fact green cast is all over your picture.



Agreed will redo later for an even closer to reference shot....


So are you going to post any or are you just here as backup....


----------



## CaspianM

I think we ought to take picture of SMPTE color bar but then again each camera has its own color gamut.


----------



## WTS

And another thing Mike, for gods sake stop taking all these shots and then saying it's from an uncalibrated CRT. Spend the time and calibrate the f'ing thing and then show us all how good it is!


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16662337
> 
> 
> And another thing Mike, for gods sake stop taking all this shots and then saying it's from an uncalibrated CRT. Spend the time all calibrate the f'ing thing and then show us all how good it is!



Thats the crux of the problem he can`t as his tool is 2 small...


----------



## jesusjones

Even with every camera having its own color gamut and every computer screen being different.


The point every one here is tying to make is that namatter what they put up on their projectors. It comes out exactly what it was intended to look like.


So if the camera took a picture of grass that looks yellow. It should look yellow on your Projector also. Not green all of a sudden.


And once all the pictures have been taken and put side by side. If the projector truly is PERFECT. You'd have 2 identical images. Nomatter what screen/monitor u are veiwing it on



And Paul Buttler, I tried my idea on my 1272. lol it was disapointing. Not that it didn't look good. It just wasn't an ACCURATE reproduction.


I have a feeling every one who believes there projector is spot on. Is running out to do this right now. And the rest, will probably just ignore me.(Oh now it's on!  )


----------



## CaspianM

In Mike's defense he has posted some excellent shots early in this thread.


----------



## CoolerMaster

what a great thread


----------



## WTS

I'm not saying he hasn't posted some excellent shots in the past because he has.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16660028
> 
> 
> Chirp in why don`t you on the standards debate to set the record straight natural vs standards as you seem unbias and level headed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....



Way back in this thread I commented on grayscale being different from color decoding. Most scalers don't have any problem with red push because they were designed to be linear in their color decoding, but many brands of CRT RPTV WERE designed with red push, Mit being one of the most prominent offenders, Sony and Hitachi coming up a close second and third.


All these brands have ways to realign their color decoding, if you work hard enough. But CRT front pjs are RGB based, which does not discriminate or cause any red push or any other color push. That's done ONLY in the source or the scaler used for that pj. A CRT ceiling pj is very much a dumb animal when it comes to color decoding when the straight RGB path is used. It just replicates what it was sent, with no dalliances in any direction at all. RGB is the final stage in all CRT triple gun tech, even CRT RPTVs. Ceiling pjs, when running straight RGB, are using ONLY that final part of the signal path. Again, a very dumb animal. A very EXPENSIVE dumb animal, to be sure, (stop laughing, Cliff!) but a very dumb animal nevertheless.











This is all secondary and separate from the grayscale, which is the black and white ONLY. The grayscale forms the basic baseline the colors are then created from.


Computer monitors are not all alike - in many ways they are all over the map in their grayscale and color renditions. It's not just that our single chip cameras are not broadcast quality HD cameras. It's also our PC and Mac monitors, tho Macs are probably closer to real color because that's what the true online artists use. So we're all seeing something at least a little different from each other, as virtually nobody calibrates their computer monitors to an independent standard like we do our video displays.


D6500K has been the standard for grayscale since TV began. It still is. Same for SMPTE C colors. Nothing has changed since. Rec 709 has come in now for an expanded color gamut because of the increased range of new fixed pixel displays, but the basics remain the same.


The bottom line is whether you look at your display and see whether it looks LIFELIKE or not. If it does you get your promised suspension of disbelief and are spirited away to some galaxy far, far away. If not you get to be watching a very colorful display, sometimes oversaturated and TOO colorful, or lacking blues and greens and oversaturated on the reds! But not lifelike. If it's not lifelike you gotta settle for colorful and let it go at that. Getting the fleshtones correct gives you the best shot at suspension of disbelief in a non-linear color decoding situation, and you gotta just let the rest fall where it may.


Color decoding has to be done using test patterns and color isolation AFTER the grayscale is set to the standard of D6500K. Paul Carleton, creator of the SPot, used to be a cameraman and before every shoot they would realign their color decoding on those cameras. That's were I learned about color decoding being different from grayscale and different from the overall effects of Color Saturation and Hue. Took me really sideways the first time he demo'd all that, on location in Seattle. I hurt my neck on the double-take, my jaw just dropped to the floor...



My impression of your pix, Kevin, is that there's a drabness in them that makes me question your grayscale. Does b/w material - like the original Casablanca - look like the same color of a gray overcast cloudy day? I think not, I think it would look a little greenish on your display, and would look more natural if your set's grayscale were corrected.


It has also been mentioned that the JVC has color slewing which has been documented. If it's red push, that's very insidious, because red push translates to blue/green diminish. IOW, you can use the THX Optimizer to get your blues dazzling, but if you have red push, the reds are then going to be overdone, which decimates your fleshtones. If you take your color saturation down a bit you can really dial in your fleshtones but once you do, your greens and blues then look wilted and diminished, as the color saturation control affects all 3 colors simultaneously, by exactly the same amount each.


Cliff knows about this, it's on his 65" Mit CRT RPTV. Or at least was, he may have had it corrected by now...


And you can't fudge the fleshtones. That's the one thing that affects your suspension of disbelief most. If you have red push you CAN get great fleshtones, but only at the expense of a lot of the other supporting colorations.


Realignment of your color decoding AFTER your grayscale has been dialed in allows all the colors to show up like they should have all along, which would then allow your display to match the references set up by the creators of the video genre here that we all know and love. Exposed years ago by Joe Kane, tho they were actually created by the founders of the genre at the inception of TV. These references are present in color bars patterns for the color and are used via color isolation - either by filters (close but no cigar) or actual color isolation, which on CRT is done effortlessly by simply covering 2 of the lenses. On fixed pixel it's really hard to get it right, as I don't know of any fixed pixel displays that include color isolation in their service menu registers, and you can only trust filters so far, as they can deliver results that are very different from true color isolation.


And by way of reference test patterns for grayscale - actually any b/w material that has the right shadings and dynamics - plus reference comparison or "color analyer" equipment. (I put color analyzer in quotes because color analyzers REALLY only analyze the b/w material for grayscale purposes. You can't cure red push by altering the colors used for grayscale. The grayscale has to stay at D6500K no matter what, their registers can't be used for color decoding realignment.)


Many of us have worked very hard on our own grayscales, some of us have hired the best to do that for us. And most here don't have any color push or pull because they own some of the best and unaltered equipment. I had to work very hard on my color decoding because mine is a Mit, which designs red push into their product and have since long before HD. There was even a series where there were 3 choices - Accurate, Average and Skin Tone. Accurate was the ONLY setting that allowed NO red push and was completely linear in its color decoding and thus color rendition. But that was long ago, long before HD was even a gleam in its creators' eye. They now make you slog thru PerfectColor, whose labels for the primaries and secondaries mean nothing when you get right down to realigning out the red push. It's hair-pulling-out territory! But worth it, when the colors are so lifelike you feel you're there, in the middle of it all.


You have put up shots that are completely reasonable for an out of box display. But you're challenging owners who are afficianados and have taken LOTS of measures into their own hands, to put up the best shots they know how.


My suggestion is to have your set calibrated by a professional calibrator and see if it passes muster. Then add a Lumagen or some other great processor to take care of any color decoding anomalies inherent in JVC's product.











b


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16662466
> 
> 
> I'm not saying he hasn't posted some excellent shots in the past because he has.



Agree!

Here is one I ran into:


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## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16662532
> 
> 
> My suggestion is to have your set calibrated by a professional calibrator and see if it passes muster. Then add a Lumagen or some other great processor to take care of any color decoding anomalies inherent in JVC's product.



He is better off to get the processor first before calling someone with colori-meter.


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## Mr Bob

Could be. I can't tell, with the pix that he's sent up so far.


Kevin, you might want to send up a set of true b/w pix, with lots of variability in their light levels and shadings and overall dynamics, so we can see your grayscale in action.


Or just a true grayscale pattern, like any of the Joe Kane patterns.


Don't use any AVIA grayscale pattern for your grayscale - they were created correctly by Guy Kuo along with all the great patterns on the Ovation SD disc, but got flawed in the production process once it was out of his hands, and are not usable for grayscale.




b


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## Kevin 3000

Thanks Mr Bob for trying to sort things out its just my camera skills needs sorting this JVC has limitations as we all know but this is a screenshots war thread not calibration so let the wars begin....


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## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16659942
> 
> 
> And be mindful that Zues is also from the pixel camp..





lol, not really. i still love crt. But like digital for HD. As far as the greens go phoshophor based like plasma and crt will wipe the floor against anything else because of the phosphors. I don't like neon greens. I don't think it's possible to have deep greens without phosphors, certainly not dlp or lcos.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16663924
> 
> 
> lol, not really. i still love crt. But like digital for HD. As far as the greens go phoshophor based like plasma and crt will wipe the floor against anything else because of the phosphors. I don't like neon greens. I don't think it's possible to have deep greens without phosphors, certainly not dlp or lcos.




yep, and that's a major problem for me. I love punchy and dynamic greens. It does wonders for nature scenes and all things outdoors.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16662337
> 
> 
> And another thing Mike, for gods sake stop taking all these shots and then saying it's from an uncalibrated CRT. Spend the time and calibrate the f'ing thing and then show us all how good it is!




Well, I'm just enjoying posting them for now. It's like I put things in 4th gear yesterday, and I have two more gears to go before reaching my top speed..










It's not quite ready for finals. not only do I need to replace the convergence board, I also have something else I'll need to replace that will be crucial to a proper setup/calibration.


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## WTS

One year I hope you'll be able to just sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labours and stop tinkering.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16663391
> 
> 
> Thanks Mr Bob for trying to sort things out its just *my camera skills needs sorting this JVC has limitations as we all know* but *this is a screenshots war thread not calibration* so let the wars begin....




In some threads you're claiming to have the ultimate setup, so much so that you claim that your shots balance out against the "reference" shots that you post......however, I'm seeing now that you're also acknowledging that your JVC has issues ("limitations") and your camera skills aren't the best. You also indicate that we're all aware of your JVC issues..










And as if that's not enough to wave the white flag, you want to still join in on the screenshot war.


Well Kev, that's what it's all about. Simply posting what you have without boasting that it's better than anything else. Glad you came around..


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16664323
> 
> 
> One year I hope you'll be able to just sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labours and stop tinkering.



I'll be doing that soon. It's just that I'm waiting on something else to complet things. I have all intent to get my Ht up and running. When that finally happens, it will be something to behold..


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## Kevin 3000

Hey mp20748 check this out looks reference to me...THX Reference that is


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16664553
> 
> 
> Hey mp20748 check this out looks reference to me...THX Reference that is



that's right, to you it looks. to me....never mind.


Anyway, when doing foliage. There's always varying shades of green. Especially when looking at grass. You should be able to see deep greens and lighter greens. And your shot is showing one single shade of green on everything green..










And that's THX?


I have that Blu Ray. I'll see if i can post a few shots for comparison.


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## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16662943
> 
> 
> Could be. I can't tell, with the pix that he's sent up so far.
> 
> 
> Kevin, you might want to send up a set of true b/w pix, with lots of variability in their light levels and shadings and overall dynamics, so we can see your grayscale in action.
> 
> 
> Or just a true grayscale pattern, like any of the Joe Kane patterns.
> 
> 
> Don't use any AVIA grayscale pattern for your grayscale - they were created correctly by Guy Kuo along with all the great patterns on the Ovation SD disc, but got flawed in the production process once it was out of his hands, and are not usable for grayscale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Yes but I meant he needs the processor before calibration not after the isf guy has left. Having said that rs-350 has no provision for color decoder tweak AFAIK like my own rs2. It is shame since it is a nice fixed panel otherwise .


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## mp20748




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## mp20748




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## Gary Murrell

Mike posted a few pages back, sorry if I missed your answer


would love to know your screensize/type and lenses being used


thanks


-Gary


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## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16655610
> 
> 
> It's different but still similar. Digital always=better resolution for audio and video. We shoot the screens with a digital camera, digital blu-ray medium, it's not hard to tell the differences between analog crt and digital. Crt will never compete with resolution against a digital. You really can't capture what crt does well, but it's not gonna win no screenshot war.



You can see how crt does colours better, particularly pastels. You can see how natural the images look instead of the artificial sharpness. You can see the greater depth and dimensionality compared to some of the flat and undersaturated images. And lets not forget the fluid motion and the greater motion resolution of crt compared to digitals.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16665400
> 
> 
> Mike posted a few pages back, sorry if I missed your answer
> 
> 
> would love to know your screensize/type and lenses being used
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> -Gary




Oh, I forgot to reply to that...


I have a 82" wide Draper screen (electric). I'm using HD-10L lenses. I had Gt-17's on it, but because of the width of the screen I had to go with the HD-10L's. The Gt-17's will be up for sale soon. they're not good for smaller screen sizes.


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## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16661423
> 
> 
> A REFERENCE pic being used from post 500..take a look....
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> I am just having a bit of fun keep your shirt on mp20748, better mine if you can...looks very close to reference to me



I'm sorry but your screen shot just falls flat again. Look at how much more things grab you in the screen reference, things are punchier, your image just looks flat and lifeless and uninteresting. And look at Jack Sparrows face, your shot makes him look yellow and sick. And look at the bones, the reference they actually have a milky bony colour, in yours they look yellow/green. In fact your greens look neon like in the background foliage compared to reference which look natural.


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## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16665450
> 
> 
> You can see how crt does colours better, particularly pastels. You can see how natural the images look instead of the artificial sharpness. You can see the greater depth and dimensionality compared to some of the flat and undersaturated images. And lets not forget the fluid motion and the greater motion resolution of crt compared to digitals.



As George Carlin would say "Right on man"


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## overclkr

Muwahahahahahahaha!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13269020


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## overclkr




> Quote:
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## overclkr

For Gino.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/13213545
> 
> 
> Flashpoint 1080P on Gino's Cannon EOS 5D
> 
> 
> Um.... I'm stunned. This is before and after calibration as well as one screen width from my screen 1080P/60 with his camera. Smokin'.
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## overclkr

Gino had to BUST OUT that Canon to put the SMACK DOWN.


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## overclkr

Man I didn't realize that I have been at this for so long. Even after 102 pages, this thread still keeps cranking. Too cool. Makes me want to fire the CRT's back up this weekend for some screenshot lovin'.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12622099
> 
> 
> Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix HD DVD


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## overclkr

Damn!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr*  /forum/post/13018285
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## overclkr




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## overclkr

Damn, a RS1?


















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12465088
> 
> 
> Here is a few kick ass shots from an RS1 owner. I'm so looking foward to this on HDM.
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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Feldman* /forum/post/12486980
> 
> 
> Some really sweet SS being posted here!!
> 
> 
> I was watching a DVR recording off of Dish of Ronin and stopped the movie a few times for some shots.
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Fantastic!


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## overclkr

Hi.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/12366544
> 
> 
> Live Free Die Hard


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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr

Ok, sorry, I'll stop now.


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## Prehjan

I think that the foliage shot brought the cows home...like mentioned before the differences in green are non existent in the digital shots! (Not to mention the differences with the painted jack face and the digital version!)


To me it all comes down to what your/my eyes have seen previously!


It is hard to put the "monkey" back in the box once you experience what these "beasts" are capable of as far as all this stuff is concerned!


Personally once I saw a decent picture (one that was balanced and as close to reference as possible!) that first time... Immediately I knew what I was missing something! (A bunch of things...so I went out and found myself a Barco and then moved up to a Marquee!)



...VP/SDI/BR/Moome HDMI and that other "accompanying" stuff !!!


My guess is that these "digital" types have never seen such results in person and all they know is that flat "neon" like colored pictures that their "out of the box displays" show!


Some are still stoked by how much and how many marketing hypes they bought into buying the stuff.

...and when they start seeing some of our CRT pics...they unconsciously see that they have been had...(...but the "conscious" mind is not allowing them to accept that!)


I trying not to get too serious with these "talks/arguments" but gotta say this:


"It is like trying to argue with a chicken! ( A chicken is "higher brain function deficient"), so how are you gonna convince "it" that this or that is better! (...and I use that term "better" very loosely!)"


At the end of the day, If someone does not want to believe their own eyes and does not have the ability (technology wise or "ability" wise) to process the "evidence" and to setup/enjoy a better PQ, then there is nothing more to be done or say!)


A digital RS whatever is truly the better course for such individuals...they are not "purists" nor do they know what they are missing! (...not to mention undertanding the concepts that are associated with alot of what we are talking/arguing about here!)


And just so that we are clear...there are plenty of people that don';t suffer from this "higher brain function deficiency" that have digitals! (and no this comment does not mean that everyone with a digital has a "chicken" type functionality!): They just chose to go that route because of other/personal reasons!


What I would like to see is a "Screen shot Wars for CRT ONLY" caption in the main CRT forum area...that way whoever is posting digital shots and talking none sense without understanding what they are arguing about could just be deleted right away!


Martin


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## Ericglo

There seems to be a lot of jumbled misinformation in this thread.


Kevin,

I have no idea what this THX your talking about is. Mostly what THX does is make sure products achieve a certain reference standard that they define. Actually it is mostly marketing. If you want to know what the reference standards are, then read this:
http://www.displaymate.com/shootout.html#series1 


Zeus,

You asked about uniformity. To my knowledge, no pj has 100% perfect uniformity. I think some of the 3chip DLPs may be in the 90s and maybe some of the LCOSs, but I haven't checked lately. Unfortunately, Bob is incorrect when it comes to CRT unless he has some data that I haven't seen. The Sarnoff report from 10 years ago had a 9500 around 50% uniformity in the corners. I believe others have verified this uniformity issue. Fortunately, if one desires then you can use a Torus screen to give close to 100% uniformity.


Martin,

Are you serious? There are plenty of digital owners that know a great deal about video, but still prefer digital. Would you say Art is a chicken? He went from two G90s to a 3 chip DLP. There are a lot of ex-CRTers besides Art that have made the switch and feel that they have lost nothing in the transition.


You are correct about one thing, I did think this was a CRT screenshot thread and not another digital/CRT debate.


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## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16665046
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THX calibrated close enough for this test



HD-350










I can adjust PJ for this look but on my plasma THX calibrated mode its like the other pic and i have always read calibrated mode is correct?


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## Zues

Upconverted Empire


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## Zues




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## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ericglo* /forum/post/16666550
> 
> 
> 
> Zeus,
> 
> You asked about uniformity. To my knowledge, no pj has 100% perfect uniformity. I think some of the 3chip DLPs may be in the 90s and maybe some of the LCOSs, but I haven't checked lately. *Unfortunately, Bob is incorrect when it comes to CRT unless he has some data that I haven't seen.* The Sarnoff report from 10 years ago had a 9500 around 50% uniformity in the corners. I believe others have verified this uniformity issue. Fortunately, if one desires then you can use a Torus screen to give close to 100% uniformity.



I don't remember ever saying CRT has perfect uniformity. I have to make sure my cam is as far back as I can get it to not have the fleshtones be nonuniform @ t/b compared to in the middle in my screenshots, and I am limited as to how far back I can go in my living room without hitting the window. If it's too close there's a highly noticeable difference in those fleshtone colorations. The best placement of my cam is ideally WAY far away - on the front porch shooting THRU my living room window, using telephoto!


If I shoot an all white screen, the corners are definitely darker on my CRT displays at my prefered viewing distances - which ideally are as close to the screen as possible, for great perceived sizing.


Luckily my eyes are not nearly as critical as my camera, perhaps because they are always following the action and are not fixed, like the cam is. This phenom is not a great distraction at all, when the overall pic has been worked with and looks OK.


But it IS there!












b


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## Mr Bob

Some dynamite shots, Zeus!











Are you using a gamma bump?



b


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## Zues

Thank's Mrbob.. I have a picture program that came with my computer so i can raise brightness a little on some of those dark shots to see the detail i see, it's hard to capture those dark scenes without alot of crush.


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## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16666967
> 
> 
> HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> I can adjust PJ for this look but on my plasma THX calibrated mode its like the other pic and i have always read calibrated mode is correct?



Just because a display says it's THX - or "6500K", as the Mits CRT HDreadys often did, or "calibrated" - doesn't mean it's still calibrated properly once it's made its way to you, the consumer, all the way from the factory. The Mit HDready grayscales are always very pink OOB, despite being labeled "6500K".


I always leave that temp alone when I calibrate one, just to show the owner the difference between what Mit CALLS "6500K" and what D6500K REALLY is, once calibrated correctly. It's always a massive difference, and readily available to see on the Mits's, since Low and High are independent color temps and can be summoned up independently of each other for comparison purposes.


Each display has to be tested, to really know for sure.


Even the Kuros are being lavishly optimized from calibration in their performance, despite being the king of the plasmas these days. There's nothing but rave reviews out there on that, in other threads here at the AVS.



b


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## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16667025
> 
> 
> Just because a display says it's THX - or "6500K", as the Mits HDreadys often did, or "calibrated" - doesn't mean it's still calibrated properly once it's made its way to you, the consumer, all the way from the factory. The Mit HDready grayscales are always very pink OOB, despite being labeled "6500K".
> 
> 
> I always leave that temp alone when I calibrate one, just to show the owner the difference between what Mit CALLS "6500K" and what D6500K REALLY is, once calibrated correctly. It's always a massive difference, and readily available to see on the Mits's, since Low and High are independent color temps and can be summoned up independently of each other for comparison purposes.
> 
> 
> Each display has to be tested, to really know for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> b



That used to be very true but read this. So if we believe the plasma to be calibrated whats your opinion calibrated pic or look right pic....
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...10-Review.html 

http://www.thx.com/products/home/hddisplays.html


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## mp20748




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## Mr Bob

The proof is in the pudding. Your shots don't impress me as having that near perfect grayscale mentioned in the article. If you send up some b/w shots like I asked you to before, maybe we can nail something down for you.


I see grayscales every day, have been doing this for over 20 years, and no I am not impressed with what I have seen so far on your shots, at least on the dynamics or balances of your colorations. Definitely not pure gray, with pure colors, definitely not lifelike. Perhaps your particular set is not as good as the sample used in the article, or was not set up as well as that one.


Or perhaps you need to implement your warranty and have your set tested for grayscale, and possibly corrected.


I could be wrong of course, you're free to not listen if you wish not to, there's no way to know one way or the other without testing your display...


I just know that I have seen every picture on this thread, from the best to the worst and everything in between. I know what "supposed to be" means and that often it does not match up with "what is". I am simply shooting from the hip here, from my experience in the field and from observing this thread in action since its inception...











b


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## Kevin 3000

MrBob these look same as on plasma....

HD-350


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## plain fan

Hopefully all of the Gladiator shots will have to be re-shot and posted after the blu ray arrives this fall!


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## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16665454
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot to reply to that...
> 
> 
> I have a 82" wide Draper screen (electric). I'm using HD-10L lenses. I had Gt-17's on it, but because of the width of the screen I had to go with the HD-10L's. The Gt-17's will be up for sale soon. they're not good for smaller screen sizes.



Mike, I have a 82" wide Draper M1300 Cineperm, the GT17 lenses just do focus up on it, I think that I could probably do a little better, the red and blue phosphor grain doesn't come in just a pinch less than the green


you think I should try some 10L's ? what about HFQ's ?


thanks


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

Zues great stuff, I just watched Empire the other day with the family, I was going to put some shots up from it soon


this DVD with a SDI modified DVD player and the VP50pro scaler would fool all but the most seasoned videophile

















the BDs of the original Star Wars films are going to be just smokin when they do hit


-Gary


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16668005
> 
> 
> Mike, I have a 82" wide Draper M1300 Cineperm, the GT17 lenses just do focus up on it, I think that I could probably do a little better, the red and blue phosphor grain doesn't come in just a pinch less than the green
> 
> 
> you think I should try some 10L's ? what about HFQ's ?
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> -Gary




The HD-10L's will be perfect for that screen and would produce tighter focus than the Gt-17's or HFQ's. Both GT-17 and HFQ's work better for larger screens, and should not be used on this size screen.


When LC lenses are properly used, the center focus adjuster (the one nearest the CRT) when at best focus, should be at or near the center of the swing. With GT-17's that adjuster would be at the very end. That would put the lens not at it's best range for best focus. It's important to always have any of the LC lenses having the adjuster set mid way of the swing for optimum focus.


The HD-10L are not bad lenses, they just do not work well with larger screens. And when they're used on larger screens, the edges are not the only problem areas.


They were designed for smaller screens, and they work very well on a smaller screen. You should notice this once/if you change to them. At least that's what would happens on a Marquee when using HD-10L's on a smaller screen.


I prefer a smaller screen because they produce better uniformity.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16667058
> 
> 
> That used to be very true but read this. So if we believe the plasma to be calibrated whats your opinion calibrated pic or look right pic....



The goal of calibration is to replicate accurately what happened in the studio where the work was mastered. A perfect calibration fully captures the look and feel of the film version the digital BD or DVR or OTA rendition came from.


A well calibrated pic should look like the "look right pic", they should be identical.


For some reason the pix Zeus sent in seem more alive, accurate and with more depth than yours, and I believe he told us that his is a digital fixed pixel set as well as yours.


The shots sent in from Art are stealth grade also. You'll find some of them way back in this thread.


I believe your set can have that stealth grade look, I just don't see it there right now, tho your shots are great in terms of their crispness and their dynamics. Looks like you shot them well. Gotta be something missing, tho, because they don't impress me as much as the Zeus shots do.


Possibly not enough blue in the whites. It IS possible to UNderdo the blue, even tho most OOB CRT RPTVs OVERdo the blue in the whites. Plasmas can too. I just calibrated 3 Sony LCDs, all of which had blazing blue in the whites, and a Pioneer Elite CRT 720, with not quite as much, but still too much.


NOT the problem with your set, I think yours has too little blue in the whites, but won't know until you send up a grayscale pattern for us to see...



b


----------



## Kevin 3000

The above pic is what i see in THX Mode on my plasma adjuseted JVC to match close, if i use Dynamic mode then the pic is like the other 2 but its not a calibrated mode. Same as the horse pic above but backed up by blu-ray.com calibrated screengrab. I have in the past moaned about a yellow haze in shots but i now realize thats the calibrated look of film, but i am at a loss why all you pros let this slide in this thread.....


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16668621
> 
> 
> The above pic is what i see in THX Mode on my plasma adjuseted JVC to match close, if i use Dynamic mode then the pic is like the other 2 but its not a calibrated mode. Same as the horse pic above but backed up by blu-ray.com calibrated screengrab. I have in the past moaned about a yellow haze in shots but i now realize thats the calibrated look of film, but i am at a loss why all you pros let this slide in this thread.....



Your not getting it, THGX mode doesnt do Squatt!!!!!! You need to use a colorimeter and a calibration Program to see how your greyscale is and your Primaries!! Just look at the yellow makeup on the left side of jacks face, your's is green not yellow. Get it calibrated and take some pics then, yours is way off.... And THX is crap its just a selling point for uneducated consumers.


Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16669100
> 
> 
> Your not getting it, THGX mode doesnt do Squatt!!!!!! You need to use a colorimeter and a calibration Program to see how your greyscale is and your Primaries!! Just look at the yellow makeup on the left side of jacks face, your's is green not yellow. Get it calibrated and take some pics then, yours is way off.... And THX is crap its just a selling point for uneducated consumers.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Forget the JVC screenshot needs tweaking, on the plasma it has a yellow haze in the film. not in all scenes but in the scene above, in THX mode panasonic v10 factory set best yet, which means calibrated to D6500k which makes me think why is this not shown in any screenshots because it this is right mine would show the haze if present, only recently got this plasma and it this is how film should look well get those screenshots sorted...or why has this been overlooked as you must see it on your displays if calibrated no??...


----------



## Kevin 3000

PioManiac


I see what you are saying and have thought the same since i`ve owned this calibrated by eye JVC but this calibrated plasma has got me thinking CALIBRATED looks like this....


----------



## Kevin 3000

Screengrab THX mode straight off plasma


----------



## nashou66

Kevin are any of your sets calibrated with a probe and a software program or are they factory settings? if not calibrated they are off , no way talking your way out of this so dont bother.


Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16669703
> 
> 
> Kevin are any of your sets calibrated with a probe and a software program or are they factory settings? if not calibrated they are off , no way talking your way out of this so dont bother.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Look here
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...10-Review.html 


No the reason i got this plasma all reviews said best calibrated d65 out of box under 3 deltas. If i post some plasma greyscales can you tell from the screengrabs if anything is wrong??


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16669766
> 
> 
> Look here
> http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...10-Review.html
> 
> 
> No the reason i got this plasma all reviews said best calibrated d65 out of box under 3 deltas. If i post some plasma greyscales can you tell from the screengrabs if anything is wrong??



Read this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933 


Nashou


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16669887
> 
> 
> Read this:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933
> 
> 
> Nashou



So looking at the pic above would you say its off calibration or is this the true look of D65 saying its off is the opposite to every review of this new TV?


----------



## mp20748

Let me warm things up and then get back with more shots. I now have another Blu ray player.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ericglo* /forum/post/16666550
> 
> 
> 
> Martin,
> 
> Are you serious? There are plenty of digital owners that know a great deal about video, but still prefer digital. Would you say Art is a chicken? He went from two G90s to a 3 chip DLP. There are a lot of ex-CRTers besides Art that have made the switch and feel that they have lost nothing in the transition.
> 
> 
> You are correct about one thing, I did think this was a CRT screenshot thread and not another digital/CRT debate.



Eric, I was not putting anyone with a digital down or calling them chickens!


I was trying to get across is that if someone has a digital and is "aware" of most of the concepts that we are talking about here...it is out of choice and not just because they absolutly feel that digtal is better since it is newer and the "greatest"...not a lot unlike what some folks here have expressed!


The reasoning goes something like this:


"digital is newer and crt is older tech: hence digital is better in every way shape or form...just because it is newer!"


If you anyone feels that I am being offensive I will take those comment out!


I just have an issue with some folks when they talk and express stuff that is not anchored in reality/experience!

I don't do well with "blind" followers of anything!


Oh and Kevin:


That THX mode of yours is for the "chickens" I mentioned earlier...I agree with Nashoo on this one: you can't talk your way out of this one, at least not in here!


Your colors are way off get a colormetry and learn how to use it and chances are you can get a little closer to that so called THX mode of yours with it...but without doing any of the footwork you CAN NOT claim it!


I am really impressed by Zeus's screenshots...It could be partly his "abilities" with the camera! ...but overall nice PQ!


Great thread by the way!


Martin


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PioManiac* /forum/post/16669385
> 
> 
> I'll admit that I find it necessary to bump up the brightness on my PJ for screen shots so it doesnt look like my blacks are being crushed.
> 
> But other than that I'm very close to ISF standards most of the time.
> 
> 
> I bump the brightness to make up for my poor camera performance because I can see all the shadow details just fine in person when I'm in low lamp mode (calibrated)
> 
> but my $100 camera just cant capture it unless I use high lamp mode.
> 
> 
> Here's my calibrated image in low lamp mode... with lots of black crush that doesn't exist in person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also like to compare my screenshots to my Pioneer Kuro plasma, also calibrated...and they are very close now.
> 
> My 50" Kuro (Eagles HD DVD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Epson 1080UB at 120"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only major difference is the 4 foot diagonal vs 10 feet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...sorry for the thread highjack guys
> 
> I'll kindly bow out of your thread now, until I return with my own CRT (someday)
> 
> BTW, I'm a Black Level junkie...so I'll leave you with a few of my favorite concert shots
> 
> 
> the Police (Bluray)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribute to James Taylor on HD DVD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least with most concert discs' , often shot with HD digital cameras, you dont have to worry about "directors intent" haha



The images above look good to look at but doubt properly calibrated for as they look overly staurated and grayscale seems off as D65.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PioManiac* /forum/post/16671310
> 
> 
> I guess it must be my camera then,
> 
> Unless you see something terribly wrong in the Calibration methods outlined in *stereomandan*'s Epson Calibration thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1134710
> 
> 
> I thought my screenshot above looked remarkably close to *mp20748*'s CRT. (with all due respect)
> 
> 
> no?
> 
> 
> CRT (mp20748)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Epson 1080UB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a little too much color, but thats likely due to bumping my brightness up on the PJ to compensate for my camera's poor handling of high contrast and shadow details.



Could be the camera as you said but Mike's already said his is not calibrated either still yours looks substantially more saturated and whites are whiter than it should be. If you are happy all it matters.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PioManiac* /forum/post/16671457
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm happy
> 
> (That my $2k Epson looks better than Kevin's JVC)



Yep, but don't let Kevin read this, we'll have to go through all those same shots again showing that they are THX certified..










Your shots are not my kind of image, but they look really good - thanks for sharing!


----------



## mp20748

The other Blu Ray player appears to have color space issues


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Kevin 3000




Oh and Kevin:
That THX mode of yours is for the "chickens" I mentioned earlier...I agree with Nashoo on this one: you can't talk your way out of this one said:


> No need THX Mode OK heres a grab of FE - now to get my PJ dialed in..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PioManiac* /forum/post/16671457
> 
> 
> The hardest part of this screenshot stuff is figuring out my damn camera
> 
> D65 calibration on a PJ doesnt seem to mean much if you're not a half decent photographer with good equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> Look how much difference I get just by *switching from the auto Night mode, to Aperture priority*. (Camera is a Fuji S5800)
> 
> (PJ setting identical for both shots)



I saw checked both cameras for "aperture priority" I found it on my other camera and took a shot:


setting is aperture priority. I left everything else to default:


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16668051
> 
> 
> Zues great stuff, I just watched Empire the other day with the family, I was going to put some shots up from it soon
> 
> 
> this DVD with a SDI modified DVD player and the VP50pro scaler would fool all but the most seasoned videophile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the BDs of the original Star Wars films are going to be just smokin when they do hit
> 
> 
> -Gary




Thank's gary. The blu-ray star wars will be sweet, but how many more years will it take. Keep your screens comming, looks like you got your projector dialed in real well, especially the color compared to your older set up.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PioManiac* /forum/post/16668157
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> another digital owner here who can appreciate (and respect) the quality of a well set up CRT PJ. I must say you fella's are very tolerant over here.
> 
> Now you even have Zues posting pics of his Vizio plasma?




Nice try, those aint no vizio screens. Now beat it


----------



## mp20748




----------



## WTS

HI Mike,


So what BR player are you using now? THe last player I presume was the new Sony you just got. I will say some of those pics are looking pretty good now, although a couple of the last ones seem to be blooming a bit.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zues* /forum/post/16666973



Very nice. I like.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16672481
> 
> 
> HI Mike,
> 
> 
> So what BR player are you using now? THe last player I presume was the new Sony you just got. I will say some of those pics are looking pretty good now, although a couple of the last ones seem to be blooming a bit.



Well Walt, I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow and fill you in on most of the changes I've been making. That Sony, it's a short story....


I played around with one of the settings on my better camera, and that made things somewhat better. I'll need to work out taming that blooming though.


Talk with ya tomorrow!


----------



## mp20748

I'm playing catch-up..










Epson 1080UB (original Bluray..the non-remastered one) my very first BD










Marquee 9500LC


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Mike your setup is getting better and better!!!! If i get stuck with the blend I might have to hire you










Athanasios


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16672734
> 
> 
> I'm playing catch-up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epson 1080UB (original Bluray..the non-remastered one) my very first BD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marquee 9500LC



XG 1351 [email protected]











Mike


----------



## Prehjan

Kevin


What is there to dial in on a digital?


...other than distance and angles (and that is something that is fixed and pretty much unchangeable on a digital...well not if you count the lense tip as dialing something!) ...the only other thing that comes to mind (...and is never right on a digital or any other pj technology not that it matters for the sake of argument! ...including CRTs...but a little closer on a CRT...at least to my eyes.)is the colors and grayscale, and short of using a "device" you cannot do either properly! (oh and that goes for the famous "THX" setting also! ...in case you wanted to bring that up!!!)


so if you gonna be using your eyes as a "device"...most of the time (...and yes I know people that do it properly...so please no future mention of it! Unless you have been doing it that way for the past quarter century and are good at it!) you start over compensating for this and that color....and at the end everything is off/screwed!)


That is a how you some folks end up with a yellowish lawn!

...and pink/purplish faces!


Martin


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16673216
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> What is there to dial in on a digital?
> 
> 
> ...other than distance and angles (and that is something that is fixed and pretty much unchangeable on a digital...well not if you count the lense tip as dialing something!) ...the only other thing that comes to mind (...and is never right on a digital or any other pj technology not that it matters for the sake of argument! ...including CRTs...but a little closer on a CRT...at least to my eyes.)is the colors and grayscale, and short of using a "device" you cannot do either properly! (oh and that goes for the famous "THX" setting also! ...in case you wanted to bring that up!!!)
> 
> 
> so if you gonna be using your eyes as a "device"...most of the time (...and yes I know people that do it properly...so please no future mention of it! Unless you have been doing it that way for the past quarter century and are good at it!) you start over compensating for this and that color....and at the end everything is off/screwed!)
> 
> 
> That is a how you some folks end up with a yellowish lawn!
> 
> ...and pink/purplish faces!
> 
> 
> Martin



Could be so but for a CMOS sensor camera such as Kevins blue/green much like lower quality measurement devices is not an indication of proper calibration for screenshots. I'm not trying to aid in Kevins defense here but color really doesn't seem to be consistent from one movie to the next. It's difficult to tell if it's the camera or if some difference in calibration has occurred. For a CMOS based camera you should be looking at red, not blue/greens.I actually don't like discussing color of screenshots but this seems to have gone very far off topic. It's right that Kevin ideally would have rec 709 or THX color calibration with an external color calibration device.


----------



## Prehjan

Stevemo


...that is true, which bring us to the topic of just start putting up patterns and such. (...to show how well a CRT PJ is resolving at a certain resolution.)



...But I suspect that other than a few people, no one would want to see boring old patterns with the primary colors!


Color is the hardest thing to show in a screen shot!


...for one thing we are all using different cameras and technologies....so short of all of us using the latest "super duper 99 mega pixel Nikon D-SLR or something, they are all gonna look different. (I am not even mentioning lighting and lenses! ....and screen capabilities to reflect the light and everything else that can make it look different.)


This is just suppose to be a fun thread to show some of our hard earn results with our CRTs.


...but as always some folks have to "invade" the "dark side" and lead our poor souls back to the "light"! (...or we are going to burn in a large pool of lava underground with a red guy poking his sharp trident at us!)


...and other stuff that has nothing to do with the fun factor!


It is kinda like someone you don't know knocking at your door while you are having dinner with a big black book laced with golden color pages in their hands, smliing for no reason! (the best thing to do is to ignore it and go on to the next bite.)


...but sometimes you just wanna have some fun and you invite them in...(...not that I have ever done that...but fun none the less!)


Religion is one thing...but religious followers is an entirely different thing!

(I just never understood some folks deep seated need to "convert" others to their own beliefs and practices!)


...yeah...and most annoying part is that they make it sound like they are doing you an immense favor! LOL


I hope I didn't go too far with my "example"...(I surely do not want to offend anyone that is into "practicing" that type of thing!)


Anyone/everyone should be free to have their own ideas/beliefs not to mention the ability to have fun with this thread...(It is when they attempt to push it down mine or others throats that it becomes a problem!)


lets keep the pointless arguments/chatters to a minimum! (...and have some fun!)


Let the fun re-begin.


Martin


----------



## mp20748

Still working on the camera settings.

*1920x1080P /60hz - Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16672966
> 
> 
> Mike your setup is getting better and better!!!! If i get stuck with the blend I might have to hire you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Dude,

If you know how to really do Greek potatoes and chicken, you got a deal.


I love Greek food!



Actually I could help you with that blend over the forum. When you get back to doing your setup, let me know.


I'd still like to come up one day for those potatoes and chicken and whatever GreeK food..










The best Pho restaurant is up near Philadelphia. American food suk. maybe I'm tiered of eating it, or I've grown a taste for other foods.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16673216
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> What is there to dial in on a digital?
> 
> 
> ...other than distance and angles (and that is something that is fixed and pretty much unchangeable on a digital...well not if you count the lense tip as dialing something!) ...the only other thing that comes to mind (...and is never right on a digital or any other pj technology not that it matters for the sake of argument! ...including CRTs...but a little closer on a CRT...at least to my eyes.)is the colors and grayscale, and short of using a "device" you cannot do either properly! (oh and that goes for the famous "THX" setting also! ...in case you wanted to bring that up!!!)
> 
> 
> so if you gonna be using your eyes as a "device"...most of the time (...and yes I know people that do it properly...so please no future mention of it! Unless you have been doing it that way for the past quarter century and are good at it!) you start over compensating for this and that color....and at the end everything is off/screwed!)
> 
> 
> That is a how you some folks end up with a yellowish lawn!
> 
> ...and pink/purplish faces!
> 
> 
> Martin



Some of new ones have more to tweak than you listed.

Multi-point gamma tweak is not easy to get it right and takes time.

Color gamut calibration is another tough one and certainly needs colorimeter.

Fixed contrast level that need to be determined to avoid white cliping and better on/off.


----------



## Prehjan

Mike


...Greek food rocks...specially their sea foods...as a kid growing up/living in Paris my family liked to vacation in Greece, mostly the island of Rhodes ! (...anyone remember seeing the movie "the guns of Navarone"?)


It is the same island with that middle ages old castle on it that had those jumbo radar controlled Nazi guns in it...(...but I don't think the allies sent Telli Savalas/Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin to destroy them! LOL)


BTW: There is also a nude beach right under that castle and guess what: it also rocks! (You can still see the hole in the castle left by the allies when they "neutralized" those guns! the gun barrels are still underwater under that same hole!) so you got nude people (I am referring to the females guys!) with nothing on taking a swim soaking in the sun near a bunch of WWII relics)


...what more can you ask for in a vacation?


Greek oil fried octopus is my favorite: it is like eating chips!


Living in LA has its advantages when it comes to food availability...You should also try Persian/Armenian food...that is what a lady friend of mine has "tuned" me into lately...it is also awesome!


Now back to the screenshots!


Martin


----------



## BFJ 96

Mike those Camera Settings on your last 5th ELEMENT shots look great.. Good Job


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/16679227
> 
> 
> Mike those Camera Settings on your last 5th ELEMENT shots look great.. Good Job



It's was more than camera settings. I also swapped out my Blu Ray player. The bigger changes was the player. The camera settings (aperture priority) I got from from the other page. That was my first time using that setting. It seemed to do wonders on my other camera, the one that does better capturing sharpness, but had serious other problems until I tried that setting.


The Blu Ray player I was using all up until yesterday, was a Sony BDP-360. Just came up not long ago, and I was thinking it should do well for image. I was wrong, or it just did not work out for my setup.


I ended up hooking up an older Blu Ray player I picked up earlier this year. It is the very first model sold by Samsung. It has 1000 in the model number.


I've tried that player before, but for some reason I did not like the colors. And it only has a black on/off setting, while the Sony has various settings for color space.


Anyway, the combination of the Samsung and camera setting seem to had made things better.


At this point I know I'll need a better Blu Ray player, but for now, this one will have to do.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFJ 96* /forum/post/16679227
> 
> 
> Mike those Camera Settings on your last 5th ELEMENT shots look great.. Good Job



Yep, when you clearly see film grain, you've nailed it!


----------



## nashou66

Mike if you can find an LG Bh200 player try to get it, its a multi player and the will be getting a new firmware update in july or august to fix some movie compatibility issues.

but its image is really top notch, the BH100 is also a great player with the Qdeo chips in that one same chips used in the best pioneer elite players and the meridian processors.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

The Samsung fails to play most disk..










And it's been updated with the latest firmware from their site..










A few more:


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16668123
> 
> 
> The HD-10L's will be perfect for that screen and would produce tighter focus than the Gt-17's or HFQ's. Both GT-17 and HFQ's work better for larger screens, and should not be used on this size screen.
> 
> 
> When LC lenses are properly used, the center focus adjuster (the one nearest the CRT) when at best focus, should be at or near the center of the swing. With GT-17's that adjuster would be at the very end. That would put the lens not at it's best range for best focus. It's important to always have any of the LC lenses having the adjuster set mid way of the swing for optimum focus.
> 
> 
> The HD-10L are not bad lenses, they just do not work well with larger screens. And when they're used on larger screens, the edges are not the only problem areas.
> 
> 
> They were designed for smaller screens, and they work very well on a smaller screen. You should notice this once/if you change to them. At least that's what would happens on a Marquee when using HD-10L's on a smaller screen.
> 
> 
> I prefer a smaller screen because they produce better uniformity.



thanks Mike (...running to buy a 10L set!!)


do you know if the throw is different between the 10L and the GT17? hopefully in my favor because I could squeeze a pinch more raster out of my install position


BTW, you are correct, my GT17 center focus is at the far end










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

I had a chance to work with an outboard Sony BDP in Camarillo CA last week, and found that the component OP did not do blacker than black, on 2 different models of Sony.


Yet the HDMI thru the HD Fury II did, at least on the one we finally left HU'd.


The thumbnail also was interesting - the thumbnail of the Pluge pattern via component showed the BtB, whereas the next step - the actual selected-up pattern via component - again, did not.


Sum it up to say that unless you're using your HDMI OP, you are NOT getting btb via component out of a Sony! And you'll be struggling to see shadow detail where it can't be seen!


This goes with the findings on the PS3 that I had questions about earlier. I will be checking my Panny soon, to see how that one fares.


Mike, have you seen this with the Sony vs. the Sammy on this issue? I'm talking the HD DVE pluge with the BtB bars out at the sides -



b


----------



## Ken Tripp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16681059
> 
> 
> Sum it up to say that unless you're using your HDMI OP, you are NOT getting btb via component out of a Sony! And you'll be struggling to see shadow detail where it can't be seen!



Could you explain this a bit more because you are getting *black* aren't you and shadow detail is black and everything above it and not much to do with BTB. I've always thought that getting and seeing BTB is only useful for calibrating your display for correct brightness setting and other than that you should never see it.


----------



## Mr Bob

BTB is not just for calibrating. Calibrating is for watching/viewing. Everything that applies on a test disc is applied to what you watch too. Both a video you're watching and the test disc come from the same format, played by the same player. The test disc merely challenges your display to the max, in various areas and on different fronts. Otherwise the 2 are the same, there is absolutely NO difference between a test disc and a BluRay movie.


The btb stripe(s) is/are definitely visible on any display that can play it/them. Not all can. There is a 7.5 IRE difference between those that can, and those that can't. That's HUGE.


If your BD disc collection has recordings that have BTB material on them because their dynamics call for it, it takes a machine that can interpret that to bring it out correctly.


I haven't tried this on the BD version of TFE, but on the SD version there's a scene in TFE where the alien slowly coming towards you in the scene with the professor has his whole front visible, but away from the light and thus in darkness, backlit.


A player that can play btb will get you those details of what his front looks like effortlessly, without having to goose up the Brightness/Black Level controls on your display. The fully black parts of it will stay in the background, clamped to black like they should. The mid-level darks will be completely visible, just like they were shot. The movie film version had absolutely no problem with that.


On a player that does not play the btb, those shadow details are shrouded in darkness, hard to see. You goose up the Br/Black Level to see them, and a whole bunch of what's supposed to be pure background black comes up too, making it look really messy. I suspect a Moome gamma bump would remedy this but I don't think they had that back when the original TFE came out in SD. I never heard of a gamma bump before I saw Cliff's setup in action. I suspect that's why he has no problem with his PS3, but then the *HDMI* version of Sony's 1080 output seems to have no problems, whether on the PS3 or an outboard Sony player, both of which I am sure use the same Sony circuitry. So far it looks like only the component version of 1080 has the problem on a Sony, and I have not tested 1080p either, only 1080i.


I will test my Panasonic BDP soon and get back to you on this. For now I need to get a duplicate BD version of DVE in from Amazon, because evidently I left my disc in Jim's BDP in Camarillo CA last week...












The dynamic range in the blacks is severely compromised if your player cannot do btb. There was a reason Joe Kane put that into his pluge pattern, way back on the original Video Essentials DVD. I don't remember if it was there in the laserdisc version, but I suspect so as well. One of these days I should dig out my LD version of A Video Standard - Kane's original work and his precursor to Video Essentials - and I bet it's on that one, too.


It's a staple in what he's trying to get across to us in terms of discovering just what our displays are really capable of.


What I CAN tell you so far is that the HD DVD DVE shows that my Tosh HD A2 DOES show the btb on 480p. For some reason that player will not play its content in 1080i via component, is copyguarded against doing that...



b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16681059
> 
> 
> Mike, have you seen this with the Sony vs. the Sammy on this issue? I'm talking the HD DVE pluge with the BtB bars out at the sides -
> 
> 
> b



I've not compared the two using pluge patterns. The reason is because I don't see things at that point yet. I'm having a color space issue that I'd rather see it go away first before moving forward to calibrations. I've also been waiting to compare a later version FuryII with the version that I have.


Oh, I'm using HDMI 1080P.


I'm excited about the HDMI converters that has come our way over the past years, which also made things HD (1080P) realistic for us who still prefer CRT.


However, these same devices have also been somewhat of an headache with HDMI, because you'll either always updating them, or waiting on the next version. And that's mainly because of colorspace or handshake issues. But most may not have the biggest problem that these devices present (colorspace), because they use gamma gadgets that somewhat make one of the main problems with colorspace go away. I would love to see BTB properly discerned on my setup, but I'm sure that's not going to happen with the device I'm using. Already there's a fix and upgrade because it is already noted to need a BTB upgrade and possible colorspace fix. So it's the next model or update and from there we'll see.


I'm also with Kipp on this. BTB should be a calibration indicator only. But I also understand your point. It's just that I would not put this kind of expectation on component video... I already know the colorspace issues there.


----------



## mp20748

I took a few more this morning, but this time I went back to the Sony 360. I'm now wondering how much of the difference I've been seeing came from the camera settings alone. I'm now beginning to think the settings on the camera was the bigger difference. I read the reviews on the Samsung and everyone I read says the image quality suks.


Anyways, I took these with the other camera and "Apeture Priority" setting, which seems to do wonders for this camera. No question it captures the sharpness better. The Sony 360 definitely does better with colors.


It's not a light controlled room, so things may appear a bit flushed:


----------



## mp20748

I now have the Sony 360 back in the chain. I think I found the best way to deal with the color space issue, but won't know for sure until I get around to calibrating the colors. It's just that I'm not really able to tell how it's turning out. I think I also need a better PC monitor.



*Sony 360 - FuryII 1920x1080P /60hz - Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## Per Johnny

Nice pictures Mike! Your setup is getting even better. A good tuned crt can throw one helleva picture.


Wants me to try a crt again. But living in a smaller flat in the city, it isnt so practical - must resist!!!


----------



## Mr Bob

With a well calibrated CRT RPTV you can sit VERY close, as close as to a DLP. I have a very small living room compared to my sun room, but sit 8' back from my 73" Mit and am in heaven. For my 65" Panny in the sun room I also sit 8' back.


That's the difference between 7" and 9" guns!












b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Per Johnny* /forum/post/16687548
> 
> 
> Nice pictures Mike! Your setup is getting even better. A good tuned crt can throw one helleva picture.....................



Yes, but things have been a progressive work of change since I first started posting using my 9500LC Ultra for these shots.


In some ways, I've been able to take advantage of working with a tweaked up CRT projector, but at the same time, there was a lot of frustration. Especially knowing that the potential and capability was there, but it was not showing on the screen as much.


So with that, I kept tinkering along the way. In doing that I stumbled across some changes and at the same time noticed some things that were not as claimed. And even a few things I myself believed should not be an issue. And what made things worse, I started with a Super Charged 9" Marquee, that was fully resolving 1920x1080P /72hz when connected to my test HTPC, but I was not seeing the same results when doing Blu Ray 1080P /60hz...



Anyway, I discovered several problems along the way. I'll list them here:






- Cables from neck boards to VIM (replaced with a set of JB cables).


- HDMI to Analog converter reconstruction filtering (modified filtering network).


- Lenses (changed from GT-17's to HD-10L's).


- Very slight HF roll-off at front end of VIM (applied peaking).


- HDMI to analog color space problem (fiddled around in the Sony 360 until I found way to make to solve this problem).



The biggest changes were the lens, peaking circuit and the modification of the HDMI converter. The bigger and most noticed changes were between the peaking circuit and the changes to the HDMI converter. The peaking circuit mod was needed because of the chip I'm using on the front end of the VIM. Though it has good bandwidth, there's a bottleneck in the video chain that I did not notice before. The one with the AD835 gain chip i have fixed a few years ago, and that's where the version of mods became Mikrons. That made a difference, but I had missed what tse at VDC had done on his VIM mod when he peaked at the front end. I peaked later in the chain, but the front end needed the peaking as well. So with the later changes, I have a bit of peaking at two points in the video chain. That way I'm not really adding too much at either end. The SD switches do do a boost...


ON the HDMI converter, it has perfect math for it's filters. And in my initial test a posted that the filters were perfect. And that was from my initial testing. I actually do not have anything HDMI tp properly evaluate the bandwidth performance of HDMI devices, so i used a basic method, which was not accurate.


I found that all out after a conversation on the phone with Craig Rounds. he too does intensive testing of devices. probably the only person I know that's as anal as i am about bandwidth performance. may even be more so than I am. In that conversation we wrestled over his findings. At least he did not know that I was not trusting in his findings. Not sure why I wa doing that when Craig is as sharp as they come. When realizing that, I took a closer look at the bandwidth, and he once again proved that he's most likely the best out there for this. Surely I'll be consulting with him from now on. A true expert in HD signal performance and where things should be for the best image. Someone I really enjoy chatting with over the phone.


The color space issue presents two challenges. one is proper IRE window and black reference, with the other being colors and range of colors. We already know about the IRE/black problems with color space, but it's the colors that can slip by us. When the color space is not correct, the colr ranhe would decrease, and you'd mostly notice too much red, and not enough yellows, browns and pastels. When the color space is correct, the most common thing to sure that it's right is flesh tones not being over saturated. And they would also be more natural while not jumping off the screen.


Oh, the other problem I was having was with my two cameras. One did well with colors, but was poor on focus. the other did well on focus, but was poor on everything else. I tried a setting on the camera that I've never tried before and that fixed the camera that had the best focus.



Now, my last shots in this thread had all the changes made, but it was this morning that I went a littler further with my filtering method. When that was done, things changes even more. And I'm now able to get even better flesh tones, browns and shades of brown and pastels are cleaner and clearer without color bleed.



These two quick shots I took this morning were taking with the projector not warmed up. And there's also too much light in the room (not light controlled). But they show how much better the colors look:





















When the sun goes down, I'll take more shots with the projector warmed up and everything else better, and from there I'll be showing how much better things look with the range and dynamics of the colors.



Hey PJ, digital ain't there yet..


----------



## nashou66

Nice write up Mike. I agree that peaking Circuit on the 02 vim helps a lot with bandwidth, i like your idea about adding a little to both ends instead of tall at the front end Like my Longbow has.


Craig is a top notch Calibrator and he brings his Engineering background to it, that makes him anal about video and the science behind it all. You have to see him during a calibration session, meticulous and keeps going till every ounce of performance is squeezed out what he is given to work with.


However I can't wait till the day when your able to finally enjoy your PJ for watching movies only Mike and all this madness stops!!!!










I am inthe same Boat










Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16692655
> 
> 
> Nice write up Mike. I agree that peaking Circuit on the 02 vim helps a lot with bandwidth, i like your idea about adding a little to both ends instead of tall at the front end Like my Longbow has.
> 
> 
> Craig is a top notch Calibrator and he brings his Engineering background to it, that makes him anal about video and the science behind it all. You have to see him during a calibration session, meticulous and keeps going till every ounce of performance is squeezed out what he is given to work with.
> 
> 
> However I can't wait till the day when your able to finally enjoy your PJ for watching movies only Mike and all this madness stops!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am inthe same Boat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Easy go Digital Dump your old CRTs as they are not worth the effort required to keep running - warmup PJ before using what a joke, LED will be the new DIGITAL.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16692691
> 
> 
> Easy go Digital Dump your old CRTs as they are not worth the effort required to keep running - warmup PJ before using what a joke, LED will be the new DIGITAL.



Yo Kev,

when you're finally able to take the training wheels off of that JVC 350, and can at least understand that you've jumped on a race track where the other drivers have made at least 20 laps to each of your 2 laps, it's then you'll have a respect for CRT, and when something comes along better than CRT, we'll also join you in the upgrade..


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16692691
> 
> 
> Easy go Digital Dump your old CRTs as they are not worth the effort required to keep running - warmup PJ before using what a joke, LED will be the new DIGITAL.



Even digital pj's have different grayscale before and after warm. Just in case you did not know.









Most CRT's need a bit of time for convergence but XG has never needed more than three minutes.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16692655
> 
> 
> 
> However I can't wait till the day when your able to finally enjoy your PJ for watching movies only Mike and all this madness stops!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am inthe same Boat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios




believe it or not, this has been great so far, because It also helped me solve some problematic repairs as well..


----------



## Per Johnny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16692537
> 
> 
> Hey PJ, digital ain't there yet..










Your Marquee sure are. Look at the detail in the wood in the second picture. Very nice.


It is some of the problems you describe in HDMI to analog, that has prevented me to go back to CRT.


Look forward to more pictures.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16681532
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also with Kipp on this. BTB should be a calibration indicator only. But I also understand your point. It's just that I would not put this kind of expectation on component video... I already know the colorspace issues there.



I can't believe I am reading this, Mike. "should be a calibration indicator only"???


DVE is recorded the same way any other disc is recorded, using exactly the same parameters. They don't change just because it's a test disc. The parameters of BluRay are set in stone, and have been since its inception. They apply to ANYTHING recorded in that format, be it a test disc or a regular movie.


LOTS of video material is in the BTB range. If your source BDP is not playing the black/btb bars in the DVE pluge pattern, you are MISSING that data - that shadow detail - in your images! It's not there. Even a Moome gamma bump device cannot re-create what's NOT THERE in the signal being sent to it.


And component video has NO problem capturing BTB. That's not the issue - despite whatever its issues are, and I am sure you know more about that than I do, this is not one of them. It has more than enough bandwidth and spaciousness to do btb effortlessly.


That said, if your HDMI contains the btb faithfully, and your component OP does not and you're using HDMI and not component, this is a nonissue for you, and in your case Mike I can see why you don't want to bother with it, as you don't use component. I am only mentioning it for anyone who IS using component and the btb is not there. Or if the HDMI on any given player is not putting out the btb bars in that pluge pattern. Again, on the Sony BDPs I worked with in Camarillo, the HDMI OP was fine and played the btb bars just fine on the HD Fury II component OP to the display. The only problem was with the COMPONENT OP of the player itself not having the full signal. The component INPUT of the display - a Pioneer Elite 720 CRT RPTV - played the btb bars just fine when they were present.


Please run that test I mentioned above on a Sony BDP when you get the chance, HDMI vs. component. And I know that won't be anytime soon, no problem, I know you have your hands full right now.


It has nothing to do with color space or its issues. It has only to do with what each BD player - or each SD DVDP - is capable of, and lots of those players are depriving videophiles of significant and highly characteristic parts of the videophile image puzzle, if whatever OP format they are using is not capable of playing the btb bars and it thus depriving those owners of significant amounts of shadow details.


I understand that owners of strictly 1080p HDMI will not have any interest in this discussion. Any Sony HDMI OP will be doing just fine. But there are many owners of perfectly good HDreadys out there who only have component as their input for that on their displays, and guys, YOU are who I am really talking to here, not Mike.


Since the HDMI circuit on my last-gen Mit stinks so badly, I am one of them. I could use my HD Fury II, but my Panny's 1080i HDMI OP thru the HD Fury II DOES change the color space - fleshtones etc - and I really don't want to futz with compensating for that, since it is presently set up perfectly for component.


One last piece of this puzzle -


On the DVE disc, the background of the pluge pattern is NOT black. The background is gray. If you set your display up for the background of that pattern to be your blacks, you will be in error and your dark images will be starved for shadow detail. The background of that pattern is +7.5IRE. NOT black. ONLY the btb bars are true black, at 0IRE, in that pattern.


If your display is NOT playing the btb bars out at the ends of that pattern, you are not getting the full picture out of your player on your current setup. To know for sure just get the disc, you can have it for under $20 on Amazon.



b


----------



## andrewfee

BTB information should _not_ be visible. It is purely there as a calibration indicator. You adjust brightness to the point where it just disappears and you have black point set correctly.


It is preferable to have WTW information visible, but not essential. Your target brightness should be reached using video white, and WTW will be brighter than that, if it's visible in your setup.


I don't think I've come across any discs where there's been shadow detail in BTB information. Most displays (CRTs especially) have a tendency to crush' blacks though (gamma errors) so detail that's very close to black might be hard to make out when black level is set correctly, and raising it a bit will make it easier to see.


That's why some people prefer to go by the visibility of 2% grey for setting black level, rather than making BTB disappear. (If you can in your setup, I would make 2% visible and then have BTB clipped if it's made visible by doing this)


----------



## nashou66

Bob why would the background on the DVE pluge pattern not be Black(0)? I am Sure it is set to Black and the BTB is -2.5 IRE and one bar is set to +2.5 or 3 not sure. I might be wrong but It doesnt make sence to have the back ground at 7.5 IRE when they have 5 IRE 10% pattern windows with the Pluge pattern on either side(one side REC 709 not sure what the other side is)


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

This issue was discussed long and hard back when 480p was just entering our consciousness, long before HD. Been awhile since I have worked the specifics with it, but my recollection is that the btb bar is exactly 7.5IRE below the background on the pluge pattern. And so the directive on the VE disc that says to set br to where you can barely see it.


That's BR, not overall light level, and has nothing to do with WTW, which is at the other end of the light level spectrum.


The background is not always going to be black. There will be details that are, and they need to clamp to black correctly in those areas. So until OLED comes along with its million to one contrast ratio and crystal clear blacks, we still need to have very dark gray be our background, like it is on film.


If you watch film closely, you'll see that it never goes to complete black, even in fade to black scenes that ARE complete black. Film is arc lamp based, and even the blackest of movie film cannot stop all of it from getting thru. There is still some gray there on the movie screen, even in the blackest of black scenes. Watch for it next time you see a movie out at the mall, on film.


And yes there ARE scenes where you need btb to be able to see the shadow details correctly. Such as the scene from TFE I mentioned above. See paragraph 4 of post 3112, one page back.



b


----------



## andrewfee

You are aware that video is stored using the 16-235 range, and that 16 is "video black", 235 is "video white" yes?


Anything below 16 is "blacker than black" and above 235 is "whiter than white."


Anything below 16 is _not_ intended to be visible. I have yet to see a commercial disc where there has been any meaningful information below black. (unfortunately I don't have the disc you mention, but I'd be very surprised if that was the case)


It's less of a problem if there is information above 235, or if that information is visible. What's important is that when calibrating, your target white point (80cd/m2 for monitors, 48cd/m2 for projectors, for example) is set using video white. (235) Some discs do apparently have meaningful information above white, so it is preferable to leave this visible. (though nothing I own seems to have any information above video white)



xvYCC exists because of this headroom below black and above white, using it to store meaningful information.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewfee* /forum/post/16694968
> 
> 
> You are aware that video is stored using the 16-235 range, and that 16 is "video black", 235 is "video white" yes?
> 
> 
> Anything below 16 is "blacker than black" and above 235 is "whiter than white."
> 
> 
> Anything below 16 is _not_ intended to be visible. I have yet to see a commercial disc where there has been any meaningful information below black. (unfortunately I don't have the disc you mention, but I'd be very surprised if that was the case)
> 
> 
> It's less of a problem if there is information above 235, or if that information is visible. What's important is that when calibrating, your target white point (80cd/m2 for monitors, 48cd/m2 for projectors, for example) is set using video white. (235) Some discs do apparently have meaningful information above white, so it is preferable to leave this visible. (though nothing I own seems to have any information above video white)
> 
> 
> 
> xvYCC exists because of this headroom below black and above white, using it to store meaningful information.



Not all comply with video specs. Some are 0-255 mainly film material.


----------



## Prehjan

Mr Bob


Your color space lecture/information posts have been very enlightening to say the least.


Thank you


Martin


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## PeriSoft

It's father's day. Who's your daddy?!


----------



## Gary Murrell

I have had enough of this digital BS crap in this thread, anyone else agree?


this is our CRT screenshot thread, if I wanted to look at crappy digital screenshots or discuss the PQ of them I know where the forum is










-Gary


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16696588
> 
> 
> I have had enough of this digital BS crap in this thread, anyone else agree?
> 
> 
> this is our CRT screenshot thread, if I wanted to look at crappy digital screenshots or discuss the PQ of them I know where the forum is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Agreed, it's junking up the thread. No disrespect, but why not post where it's more appropriate? Can we get a mod in here to take care of that? Or perhaps rename the thread "CRT Screenshot War" so they can gtfo.


Mike et al, I enjoy your crt screenshots, keep them coming!


----------



## PeriSoft

Everything on this page is CRT now, so why not just let the digital projectors disappear into memory, where they'll end up shortly anyway?


----------



## BFJ 96

Nice shots PeriSoft...


----------



## mp20748

OK, my initial filters (previous batch) did not turn out so good. So I made a few changes to something else... these, I'm well pleased..


----------



## PeriSoft

Aspect ratio looks a little off on those to me, Mike... last shot definitely looks better, though.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16700144
> 
> 
> Aspect ratio looks a little off on those to me, Mike... last shot definitely looks better, though.



Thanks. that's one of the other things I'll need to tighten up one day when I have the time.



here's another from the same batch:


----------



## mp20748

I'm running out of movies to show..









*Slightly tweaked FuryII @ 1080P - Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## jdsmoothei

some nice shots in here


----------



## neopotter

cool shots, i like the ones from hell boy the best.


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16697338
> 
> 
> Agreed, it's junking up the thread. No disrespect, but why not post where it's more appropriate? Can we get a mod in here to take care of that? Or perhaps rename the thread "CRT Screenshot War" so they can gtfo.




I don't see nothing wrong with some digital screens going up against the almighty King crt.. War is war. When is there a war without a enemy? Digital is crt's enemy. I thought it was pure brilliance how MP went from comparing resolution to switching to deep green shots. I bet that opened up some eyes. It's nice to see the pro's and con's of different tech's. Cliff posted his crt screens in the digital thread, nobody told him to leave. They welcomed him with open arms







It's all good imo, if digital screens are really that crappy, PROVE them wrong. I don't see what's the problem..It's all in good fun.


----------



## Gary Murrell

Zues, it is not just digital screens, it is BS along with it










-Gary


----------



## Prehjan

Seeing the pros and cons yes...but when you get some "knucklehead" that is blabbing his head off about "stuff" that he does't have a clue as to what they represent...(...and just blabbing just to the fact that he has a mouth!) ...then there is a problem!


Martin


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Here is a repost of one of my Blend attempts with the Longbows(8500 Ultras with HD145's).


Mike you should Pic up any of the Narnia movies, great screen shot material and scenes to test your mods with.











Athanasios


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16701915
> 
> 
> I'm running out of movies to show..



Mike, show us some scenes from "the fall".


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16704833
> 
> 
> Here is a repost of one of my Blend attempts with the Longbows(8500 Ultras with HD145's).



Looking good nashou66!


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16706043
> 
> 
> Mike, show us some scenes from "the fall".



That movie looks great! It's also a really good movie.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16706043
> 
> 
> Mike, show us some scenes from "the fall".




Ok, I'll see if it's local!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16706337
> 
> 
> Ok, I'll see if it's local!



Try to find a copy of the Narnia movies also mike lots of eye candy in those.


its a great movie for showing white details and Dark details.


Plus a great transfer.



Athanasios


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16707123
> 
> 
> Try to find a copy of the Narnia movies also mike lots of eye candy in those.
> 
> 
> its a great movie for showing white details and Dark details.
> 
> 
> Plus a great transfer.
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Just don't buy 'em for the scripts...


----------



## mp20748

The Fall


I'll take more later, I still have too much light in the HT.


----------



## g-man5.1

Great screenshots Mike. You've really improved your camera skills


----------



## dthibode

WTG Mike. I had a hard time taking screenshots from The Fall, they just didn't turn out. It's a very vivid and colorful movie that really shows off a well setup crt pj.


----------



## CIR-Engineering




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16692537
> 
> 
> ...I started with a Super Charged 9" Marquee, that was fully resolving 1920x1080P /72hz when connected to my test HTPC, but I was not seeing the same results when doing Blu Ray 1080P /60hz...
> 
> 
> Anyway, I discovered several problems along the way. I'll list them here...
> 
> 
> - HDMI to Analog converter reconstruction filtering (modified filtering network)...
> 
> 
> ON the HDMI converter, it has perfect math for it's filters. And in my initial test a posted that the filters were perfect. And that was from my initial testing. I actually do not have anything HDMI tp properly evaluate the bandwidth performance of HDMI devices, so i used a basic method, which was not accurate.
> 
> 
> I found that all out after a conversation on the phone with Craig Rounds. he too does intensive testing of devices. probably the only person I know that's as anal as i am about bandwidth performance. may even be more so than I am. In that conversation we wrestled over his findings. At least he did not know that I was not trusting in his findings. Not sure why I wa doing that when Craig is as sharp as they come. When realizing that, I took a closer look at the bandwidth, and he once again proved that he's most likely the best out there for this. Surely I'll be consulting with him from now on. A true expert in HD signal performance and where things should be for the best image. Someone I really enjoy chatting with over the phone.










Thanks Mike. I too have really enjoyed our conversations as of late... we should have started years ago.


Just so others know, I have discovered weak areas in almost every DVI/HDMI to RGB converter I have tested with high frequency. I will be posting a full write up on this in the future so stay tuned for that. In fact, the only board I have found so far that does not have an issue is John's Sony DVI-IFB version 2. All other boards and boxes I have tested are less than perfect. I will hopefully be developing a mod for the Moome boards and Mike is already getting a good start on the HDF2 to improve response.


By August I will have full disclosure on my web page with links from AVS and Curt's site.


craigr


----------



## CIR-Engineering




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16692655
> 
> 
> 
> Craig is a top notch Calibrator and he brings his Engineering background to it, that makes him anal about video and the science behind it all. You have to see him during a calibration session, meticulous and keeps going till every ounce of performance is squeezed out what he is given to work with.
> 
> 
> Athanasios










Thanks Tom!


craigr


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CIR-Engineering* /forum/post/16711575
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Tom!
> 
> 
> craigr




What - Dude name is Tom??


You mean after all this time I've been struggling with pronouncing his name (Athanasios), and he's also known as Tom..










Athanasios, Is it cool from now on to also refer to you as Tom?


----------



## CIR-Engineering




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16714042
> 
> 
> What - Dude name is Tom??
> 
> 
> You mean after all this time I've been struggling with pronouncing his name (Athanasios), and he's also known as Tom..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios, Is it cool from now on to also refer to you as Tom?



I've worked for Athanasios twice, and when I worked for him the first time he said to call him Tom...










craigr


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16692691
> 
> 
> Easy go Digital Dump your old CRTs as they are not worth the effort required to keep running - warmup PJ before using what a joke, LED will be the new DIGITAL.




see what I mean about knuckleheads!


Kevin, just because you have the ability to talk and post stuff in this forum does not mean that you have to! (...just for the hell of talking/posting!)


You see most of us here are quite content with our CRTs and do not wish to "upgrade"!


on the other hand you seem to have some issues with your disposable digital box...not to mention a lack of solid understanding of terms and concepts that have to do with PQ and Videos!


Go back to your "digital" on section and find folks that are on the same level as you! (when it comes to all this!)


...then ravel in how blissful the world of digital is! ("A la" matrix: ignorance is bliss!)


word of advice...stop talking/posting it is embarrassing!


Remember what I said about some digital folks not being able to consciously admit that they have been had? (So they try and scoop as low as they can to put down our CRTs!)


News flash: we do not care and are happy with our "beasts" on the other hand you are the one unable to come to terms with all this and "yapping" none sense here!



You have your digital and we do not care!!!


...SO GO AWAY!


I move to:

Ignore such "people" from this point on in this thread!

...nless they have something constructive to say! (...which I doubt judging from what I have seen of this Kevin character!)


I think that most of us have been more than accommodating and it is getting to the point that it is ridiculous!


Martin


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16714139
> 
> 
> You see most of us here are quite content with our CRTs and do not wish to "upgrade"!



Did you mean downgrade (at least in some ways it is)??









Kevin is trying to search for self identity with his new toy. That is all.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16714343
> 
> 
> Did you mean downgrade (at least in some ways it is)??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin is trying to search for self identity with his new toy. That is all.



yes CaspianM I should have said downgrading! (...it is in a lot of ways!)


unacceptable to me and I am sure to a lot of us here!


I agree Kevin just needs to "grow" poor kid is having an identity crisis of sort!


Martin


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

Please do not put us all Digital owners on the same boat.

I honestly dont think either technology is perfect...to me either way you are trading pros and cons.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis Gabriel Gerena* /forum/post/16714464
> 
> 
> Please do not put us all Digital owners on the same boat.
> 
> I honestly dont think either technology is perfect...to me either way you are trading pros and cons.




Louis, I agree...there are trade offs in both techs!


I actually did not wish for it to sound as it did,


...not all digital owners are as this guy is!!! (In Kevin's case I think it is just him! what an annoying individual!!!)


"Higher brain function deficiency" could be a ***** for anyone!!! despite the tech!



I was just getting tired of the pointless chatter coming from this dude!


Like I said before: "Just because someone can talk and post somewhere does not mean that they are bound by a "higher call" to do it every chance that they get!" (...and yes that includes me!!! so I m gonna stop talking/posting about it! We should just ignore him from this point forward..I know that I am!...at least I will have been trying hard to do it and will try harder from here on!)



Martin


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

I totally understand your point. I actually have been thinking on getting a CRT several times but haven't got the chance just yet.

I am sure I will enjoy one as well as I enjoy my digital just in a different way. Heck, I enjoy South Park in my LG Vu!

When you want to have a good time, provided that the technological issues are not extremely annoying, you can pretty much ignore the technology and "live" the film.

Regards


----------



## nashou66

I have seen Luis' digital screen shots and he has his system calibrated as good as you can get. Kevin needs a lot of work to get his up to par with the rest of the shots here. His are too washed out or after he tried to calibrate they are too dark. he needs to read Kals calibration for dummies to realize what his PJ can do.


And yes Mike, i go by Tom here in buffalo but my Real name is Athanasios. I found that As i got older I have embraced my ethnicity and have also made all my leagal signatures Athansios. That is why on the forums I use Athanaisos as I got used to signing my name that way on documents. In the Greek language we also have many nick names for the "proper name" So for Athanasios you can also use Thanasi,Saki, Thanasaki, Nashou(old village nick name) and Nassos. Its very confusing but to me its just natural. Growing up my parents and family called me Thanasaki, which is more for younger kids as it mean literally "little Thanasi" In Greece most called me Thanasi which I prefer.... especially from the Women there it just sounds sexy in their voice.











Athanasios(Tom)


----------



## mp20748

*pure 1080p*


----------



## mp20748

*PURE 1080p*


----------



## Kevin 3000

HD-350 Uncalibrated Seeing is believing....









The Best CRT shot on here i could find..


----------



## Prehjan

yes Kevin "seeing is certainly believing"!


just look at the white horse in the middle...(...not to mention the tree stumps!) look at its hair!


What do you see in the shot above? how about the one bellow that is the CRT one?!


Now look at the black horses...now the brown horse! Can you differentiate them in the digital pic?

Let's not even talk about the soldiers faces...(...because after all if a horse is being "smudged/blurred" then what are the chances that a soldiers face ...which is much smaller ....would not be!)


When it comes down to it it is these subtle diffrences that make up a so called "better" picture!


Now it could be that my eyes are just "tuned" to a CRT display! (...but I doubt that...because my brain isn't!)


BTW: The grass isn't even green on the pic above the CRT one...its brown!

I am not gonna even get into the cropping that is happening with the horseman on the right! another example of how "magnificent" digital is when it comes to making decisions for you! (I am sure that it could be "remedied" with an outboard video processor...but why bother since digital has a 50 dollar scaler/VP chip in it!)


Now these are just a few examples...I am sure that others could find a dozen more "irregularities"!


Martin


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16716902
> 
> 
> HD-350 Uncalibrated Seeing is believing....
> 
> The Best CRT shot on here i could find..



I don't get what you're showing here Kevin... is it how unengaging your projector is? That shot looks so washed out and blacks are too elevated and even crushed. Look at the horses hair, or the green in the foreground and compare to the CRT shot. Heck, I can't even tell there's a brown horse in your shot and there is one there in the CRT shot (7th horse from the left)


EDIT - You beat me to it Martin


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16716922
> 
> 
> I don't get what you're showing here Kevin... is it how unengaging your projector is? That shot looks so washed out and blacks are too elevated and even crushed. Look at the horses hair, or the green in the foreground and compare to the CRT shot. Heck, I can't even tell there's a brown horse in your shot and there is one there in the CRT shot (7th horse from the left)
> 
> 
> EDIT - You beat me to it Martin



...that is two opinions...in case someone was counting. (...take note Kevin3K)

Gino, I am sure you can comment on the next "engaging/seeing is believing" pic before me from our new source of "amusement" from this dude!


Martin


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16716902
> 
> 
> HD-350 Uncalibrated Seeing is believing....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Best CRT shot on here i could find..



"Seeing is believing...."


Yes, that is truly amazing.. how did you do that....it looks like it's snowing in that scene?


----------



## Kevin 3000

Just to add that horse shot is from a calibrated triple stack unlike my uncalibrated lower end JVC so if anyone wants to post a single CRT shot for a better comparison be my guest talking is easy lets see the proof....I am still calibrating the JVC but had to post after reading all the BS....


----------



## Prehjan

yes Kevin...keep on calibrating!


...the bs will disappear on its own once you pour your work into that shot.


VERY IMPORTANT:


DO NOT FORGET to sprinkle some "magic dust" into the inlet opening of that digital of yours...all will be well and calibrated after that!


Good luck


Martin


----------



## CaspianM

THe major issue with his image is black crush/shadow detail, and white clip.

He needs to use a higher gamma curve and tweak the low end gamma.

Kevin use a calibrating disk and calibrate the low end after setting up a higher gamma curve. If rs350 is similar to rs2 use gamma 2.5 and then elevate the 5% point by about 6 clicks.

Also make sure your dcam is not blowing the high lights/crushing the low end and use a lower iso to reduce noise.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16717045
> 
> 
> THe major issue with his image is black crush/shadow detail, and white clip.
> 
> He needs to use a higher gamma curve and tweak the low end gamma.
> 
> Kevin use a calibrating disk and calibrate the low end after setting up a higher gamma curve. If rs350 is similar to rs2 use gamma 2.5 and then elevate the 5% point by about 6 clicks.
> 
> Also make sure your dcam is not blowing the high lights/crushing the low end and use a lower iso to reduce noise.



Thanks thats what i am aiming for gamma 2.6 maybe a bit high so will try 2.5 etc etc...


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16716902
> 
> 
> HD-350 Uncalibrated Seeing is believing....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Best CRT shot on here i could find..



A few gamma adjustments...


----------



## CaspianM

Looks better imo.


----------



## dropzone7

Kevin, I think that looks much better. For the record I think these guys are being a bit hard on you. I don't think your shots look bad, just different. There are things I like about digital and things I like about CRT. Just remember that this is a CRT thread so you have to respect what it takes to fine tune an image to the point that MP, Cliff, Nashou and others here have done. When you do a mechanical and electronic setup on a CRT, adjust G2, dial in convergence and do a full grayscale adjustment you are allowed a certain level of bragging rights in here. You just don't have that type of "tweekability" in a digital and when it comes down to it, that's why a lot of us CRT guys are holding on to these old machines. To each his own but remember it's all in good fun, or at least for me it is. As long as each of us is happy with what we see on our screens then all is well.


----------



## dthibode

Sorry, but when you come into a crt forum with a digital and say things like "seeing is believing" and "reference this", you paint a target on yourself pretty big. You get whatever is coming to you IMO.


Honestly though, the last pic posted looks much better.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16718562
> 
> 
> Sorry, but when you come into a crt forum with a digital and say things like "seeing is believing" and "reference this", you paint a target on yourself pretty big. You get whatever is coming to you IMO.
> 
> 
> Honestly though, the last pic posted looks much better.



Agreed!


Please do not mention reference this and that! (...about a non-tuned digital!) It makes me (...and others!) want to shoot that huge target on your back! (BTW: ...Sorry about the "magic" dust comment! I may have taken that one a little too far!)


...and that last pic is much closer/better than your earliest "reference" picture!


Just keep on "tuning" that JVC of yours and think about posting some of your results in the digital portion of the forum. (...you may have to start your own thread for that one since I have not seen any screenshots Wars thread in that area...and I have not been frequenting that portion of the forum...since these digitals are pretty much set/turn on and choose "THX" setting in the little menu, hence there might not be much interest in such a thread when it comes to the other digital owners!)


CRTs are something else when it comes to getting that last ounce of performance out of them, and that is why most of us here have chosen to stick with them! (When it comes to setting them up they are in a class of their own!)


Martin


----------



## overclkr

Screenshot War in the CRT Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831 


Screenshot War in the D!g*$l $3500 and under forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=965178 


Show us your screenshots!!!!! (in the D!g*$l $3500 and up forum)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935620 


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Oh, and guys, don't give Kevin such a hard time. It's not like I didn't spam their threads.























http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12166588 


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

*1080P - The Mighty Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## lordcloud

Marquee










vs


Screengrab


----------



## Prehjan

...Now these shots have some colors in them!!! (check out the sky!!!)


Take that digital!


HUAHHAHHAHAHAH!!!!


God...I love my "obsolete" M9500!


Martin


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/16722999
> 
> 
> ...Now these shots have some colors in them!!! (check out the sky!!!)
> 
> 
> Take that digital!
> 
> 
> HUAHHAHHAHAHAH!!!!
> 
> 
> God...I love my "obsolete" M9500!
> 
> 
> Martin



How in God's name are you evaluating color based on a conversion to the camera's sRGB followed by display on your own entirely different monitor? Even if the colors recorded matched the original RGB values bit-for-bit on the screen and then after the camera recorded them and converted from RAW to .jpg, you'd STILL only be seeing the colors your display is capable of! I mean, hell, they REALLY pop on my LP3065, but it has a gamut of 107% of NTSC... how they look on this monitor, or any other, has ZILCH to do with what Mike is seeing (which, for the record, I'm fairly sure is awesome)!


Screenshots, assuming the end output device is calibrated correctly and the camera work is correct, can be used to compare, say, gamma or other color issues *between shots by the same person under the same conditions*. You can say, "This shot shows better gamma than the last one I took."


You can NEVER say "I can see from the colors on my LCD monitor why this CRT projector screenshot is better than LCD", or, "I can see from the colors on my CRT monitor why that LCD projector screenshot is better than CRT". That is nothing but pure delusion.


----------



## dthibode

The Fall shots look incredible Mike! I can't imagine how great it looks in person. I watched it here on my lowly BG808 and thought the visuals were jaw dropping!


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16723604
> 
> 
> You can NEVER say "I can see from the colors on my LCD monitor why this CRT projector screenshot is better than LCD", or, "I can see from the colors on my CRT monitor why that LCD projector screenshot is better than CRT". That is nothing but pure delusion.



I know this has been gone over a gazillion times (at least every other day in this thread), and I hate to dump fuel on the fire. I'll also state right away that I'm no where near technical enough to debate any of this. However, I can say, that "I" can see a difference between a poorly setup pj and a well setup pj, from a picture of the displayed image. I agree, it's all dependent on abc so it's never xyz, but you CAN see some of the differences! perhaps not all of them, but some of them. Yes, a pj with washed out colors will look poor on the screenshot vs a well setup pj. I will also say that my lcd's are all calibrated with a i1 display2 colorimeter. And this is as far as I'm going to get into this.


----------



## Prehjan

PeriSoft


I do understand the camera/PC monitor/lighting and stuff.... when it comes down to all of these screenshots! (...and I did explain just that earlier in this thread!)


I was referring to what I see from my own hardware and M9500...I am sure that MP and I probably see something close to what I/we have on my/our screen coming from our "obsolete" 13 year old technologies! (His is probably much "better" since he has not only updated his hardware more than mine but also has spend more time tweaking the PQ!!! Hey mike is that from an 8 inch machine or a 9 er?)


Just look at how much more "vivid" and close to "life" the CRT one is to the digital comparison! (I don't know...but there are just some things missing from the one below! just look at the color differences in the sky...not to mention the skin tone differences!...and the walls...not to mention the shadows from teh sun under that soldiers "skirt"...just to mention a few things that i do see! LOL!)


We can always switch to resolution resolving bars and such, but where is the fun in that!


Trust me when I say that in person what I see in my setup (Or other forum members CRTs!) ...I have yet to see with the super/duper "digitals boxes"! (...at more cost I might add than a single pj does everything solution, ...most of the digital folks use that type of a setup! I think the "logic" followed there is that: I have a scaler/VP in my one box solution so why spend money on a separate device when my PJ has a 50 dollar chip in it that does that!...not to mention that the same guys BR player has one too...so guess what" "lets do it twice and see how much "better/processed/washed out" the PQ on that digital can get"!)

Native resolution??? what is that? ...and why should we care about it with our/the digitals?


...oh and lets not forget the THX setting in the menu! ...that by itself guarantees a "reference" picture! (Doesn't it Kevin????)


Never mind what this digital can resolve! Lets just set the resolution to the highest one available! (After all the highest available res is always "better"than the lower one...same way that a progressive signal is always "better" than interlaced one...Right?)


I love the "logic" used there!



Martin


Added later:


My PCs monitor/video chain is HDMI/1080P "capable"!


...following the same "logic"...I must assume that since it is "capable" of throwing a picture from my super/duper Nvidia mega bucks video card then it is the "best out of the box" PQ I can buy for the money. (Never mind the time that I spend with that lacie electron eye II calibrating it! ...and making it look as good as the hardware/software allow me to do/resolve...because guess what: why bother? Since my displays menu has a picture/movie/standard setting(s)...and I can always switch between them! ...after all movie/picture is "better" than the "standard" setting!)


Correct?!


I only wished I still had my Sony GDM 900 and that Sony had made a 30 inch model of it! (..since this monitor that I am "using/typing/evaluating CRT/Digital" pics on is a 30 inch model!)


Word of advice:


(..and this one goes for everyone looking to get one of those "thin" HDTV!!! ...after all you can hang it above the fireplace and break your neck looking up at it from the couch! oh I explained this one in more detail bellow!):


Lets not forget the "ambien" (switching between purple/orange/blue while the movie is being watched!) pulsing lighting that some of these "framed" displays have around it...projected to the wall none the less...(It is kinda like what I see some of these "later tech is the best tech" types have under their Honda Civics and Accords here in LA! (...nothing says please pull me over Mr officer and find my "kind" bud more that switching/pulsing blue/orange/purple lighting under my car! Hey it almost looks like it is a futuristic hover craft from the 9th dimension! I think Luke Skywalker had something like that!) common when is this unnecessary stuff just for the sake of being able to do it gonna stop!


Hey look: "it's just like picture frame!"


...and it will go well with those "made in china" Bose speakers that are also soooooooo cute!


...You can always randomly "hang" those speakers also! ...never mind the height and the angles! ...not that it matters but hear this one : ...I can also bounce the sound off that "gone before his/her time" family members cremated ashes/remains in the vase "thingie"!!! (...and for those of you wondering where I got this horrifying scenario from: I HAVE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES at a neighbors house!!! NO BS HERE!










This same guy was also "looking" into "converting" me back to the "light side"! (I think he may have been suffering from the same infliction that some of our folks here are suffering from! I think it goes a little like this: ...and this is just my theory! So please bear with me







The "conscious" mind just couldn't "process/see" that a CRT has a better quality picture than that latest/greatest 55 inch HDTV...and that is assuming that this guy was after the PQ and not just the "hangability" factor!!!)


"Also make sure that this next HDTV purchase includes the "full HD" sticker on it!"

(...after all since it is able to "show" a picture at that resolution it also means that it can resolve it automatically!!! ... yes boys and girls....just by putting this sticker on the left side guarantees this a 100%!!!)


NEVER MIND THE SOURCE MATERIAL! (...among a lot more other things/factors: ...hardware and such!...all of this is marketing hype after all!!! ...also always DO trust the marketing execs with all your heart when it comes to the technical aspects of you purchases!!! I mean who in their right mind wouldn't?)


----------



## dropzone7

My plan is to drive my XG into the ground or until tube wear makes it unwatchable. Then if I can find a nice 9" machine with clean tubes I will do it all over again. If not then I will give in to digital and go with a 2.35:1 CIH setup. I really want CIH and I know there will be tradeoffs going to digital. It's just nice to know that I'm enjoying a fantastic image with what I have and I have spent very little to get to this point. In fact, I spent less on the 4 CRT projectors I have owned in total than what you would pay for a "decent" 1080p digital right now.


----------



## lexx21

Dang Prehjan.....virtual hug here buddy. From the front though, not from behind


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16723763
> 
> 
> My plan is to drive my XG into the ground or until tube wear makes it unwatchable. Then if I can find a nice 9" machine with clean tubes I will do it all over again. If not then I will give in to digital and go with a 2.35:1 CIH setup. I really want CIH and I know there will be tradeoffs going to digital. It's just nice to know that I'm enjoying a fantastic image with what I have and I have spent very little to get to this point. In fact, I spent less on the 4 CRT projectors I have owned in total than what you would pay for a "decent" 1080p digital right now.



Hey Drop


...I think it is the case of the :


"...once you go to the dark side you can never come back to the light again" (...at least not by choice!)


I know that this is corny, but none the less true!


...And yes folks I am talking from personal experience! (I have had digitals before "switching" to the "dark side"! (and there are also a couple of LCD/Plasmas in my house for regular TV viewing during the day and sometimes even at night!!! ...but when it comes to actual movie enjoyment, I fire up my trustee old M9500LC!!! MUHHAHAHAHAHAAHAH











...that sounded like a commercial...sorry!


I mean short of not being able to find tubes/parts for my marquees... I think that I am gonna stick with this "obsolete" CRT tech for a lot longer! (...for now I think I am good for the next ten years or so...as far as CRT supplies go!)


...and once there are no other way to go by with the marquee(s), then I will go back to the "light side"! (...out of necessity of course! God I can already hear the whining of that color wheel and those cooling fans...what a nightmare!)


I think the noise factor is another minus for the digital camp! (...In case someone else was on the fence and was keeping a personal chart of the "pros and cons" of owning/enjoying a CRT front projection system!)


Dropzone get yourself a 9er and DO NOT look back. (...I didn't!







)



Martin



Thank you Lexx! (call me Martin please!)


----------



## Kevin 3000

I read somewhere that CRTs have a brainwashing effect on some people making them believe in the darkside


----------



## lexx21

Kevin... you get the virtual hug too... but from behind. Welcome to the dark side MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## mp20748

I know, the geometry is off. But still looks purdy at 1080P


----------



## shiznit

This thread is highly entertaining!


----------



## Prehjan

...that it is!!!


I am surprised that I have not been catching a lot of flack for my earlier post! (I was expecting a bunch of "lets hang our displays" and make it a "fun afternoon" types to go bananas on me!)


Hum...I guess some are more "flexible" with my opinions/pet peeves when it comes to digital front projection, LCDs and plasmas!


Martin


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/16724278
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that CRTs have a brainwashing effect on some people making them believe in the darkside



yes Kevin same thing goes for the light side thing!


Remember my theory about some folks being in such denial that they can not consciously make a logical choice based on what their eyes see?


Never mind the countless screenshots and resolution charts.


After all folks in these type of situations go through a bunch of phases: I think the first one is denial then at some point they walk into acceptance!

I forgot what the stuff in the middle is!

(...with some of these types it might take years to get to the final phase of acceptance! it all depends on how deep of a denial you are in and how hard it might be to break through it! I suggest a "digital" psychoanalyst that has been through it and now hangs out at the 12 step meetings of ex-digitals converted to CRT now club!)



BTW...I am not the one in the digital side of the forum posting none senseical stuff like reference THx settings and other BS!


Me and others here have made an informed choice by going to that "dark side"

Some of us may be in that same denial but about Digitals, but guess what ...our eyes to brain "bridge" is solid and working properly!


If that "light side" works for you then stick with it and see what your brain tells you not to see!

...just go back to the digital area and find a couple of folks with those "neon lights" under their cars that have those latest greatest digital Pjs in their homes!...and then talk "reference and THX" like they mean something!!!


Do not also forget to get some of those "sooooo cuuuuute" bose cubes and hang them randomy everywhere to augment your "digital" experience!


Martin


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Prehjan

...ignorance is definitely not bliss when it comes to our CRTs!!!


Martin


----------



## mp20748




----------



## D6500Ken

Gee Mike, a few more shots from Baraka and we'll have the whole film!











Ken Whitcomb


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16734129
> 
> 
> Gee Mike, a few more shots from Baraka and we'll have the whole film!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



LOL... I had just started warming up that DVD..







I estimate at least 40 more shots from that DVD. It's really pregnant with very good eye candy scenes..










I'll break it up though.


----------



## mp20748

I'll try and mix things up a bit from now on.


----------



## mp20748

Time to try a different camera (Fuji)...

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16734129
> 
> 
> Gee Mike, a few more shots from Baraka and we'll have the whole film!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Mike likes him some Barac/k a










-Gary


----------



## mp20748

whatcha talkin-bout Gary...


----------



## Per Johnny

Mike, appreciate all the great screenshots, keep them coming. Hope you throw in some personal time and enjoy a full movie once in a while.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Per Johnny* /forum/post/16742555
> 
> 
> Mike, appreciate all the great screenshots, keep them coming. Hope you throw in some personal time and enjoy a full movie once in a while.



Thanks PJ. Your comments I do welcome, especially knowing that you appreciate what I'm trying to show in my shots - Thanks!


As far as watching movies... well, every time I get the theater near ready for that, something else hinders me from making it happen. I put a carpet down a few years ago, that I had to remove last week because of my allergies. Other than that, the HDMI cable is too short to go from the cabinet where the Blu ray players goes to the projector. I have the sound system in place and ready to go. And have purchased a few DVD's I really want to watch, so I'm not going to let anything else be a reason to not watch movies. I'm going to put a few chairs in the theater this week and make things happen.


I forgot to mention that I don't yet have a sofa or anything to sit on in the theater. But that's not going to stand in my way this time. This setup looks really good in person..










Oh, I'm also working on a Barco 909 blend. It's getting some of the same treatments.


----------



## mp20748

I'm still checking out the other camera I just picked up...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/13655161
> 
> 
> Couple more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Nice Mike. Damn, it is so much fun going through this thread.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/13797791
> 
> 
> I think if this is actually a screen shot war ,as the thread title says ,I'd like to put in my vote for the this as the winner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art




I don't know big dog. I'm very partial to quite a few in here.



















Cliffy


----------



## Gary Murrell

great stuff Mike, getting better


I got my lenses today, the HD10Ls (thanks William) I like what I am seeing at the center and the edges are pretty good, I think the focus just looks more natural and real and super sharp vs the GT17 on my 83" wide screen


however about 1 foot over into my screen from each edge there is a section about 4 inches wide that goes from top to bottom that looks like it has horrible flare type focus problem, very weird and has to be a lens issue of sorts, all 3 tubes are the same










ever seen this Mike, looks like classic incompatibility with screen size to me, hope not!!


-Gary


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16744035
> 
> 
> great stuff Mike, getting better
> 
> 
> I got my lenses today, the HD10Ls (thanks William) I like what I am seeing at the center and the edges are pretty good, I think the focus just looks more natural and real and super sharp vs the GT17 on my 83" wide screen
> 
> 
> however about 1 foot over into my screen from each edge there is a section about 4 inches wide that goes from top to bottom that looks like it has horrible flare type focus problem, very weird and has to be a lens issue of sorts, all 3 tubes are the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ever seen this Mike, looks like classic incompatibility with screen size to me, hope not!!
> 
> 
> -Gary



That range or area (about 1 foot over into my screen from each edge there is a section about 4 inches wide) that you mentioned was a well kelp secret with these lenses. I had mentioned it to Galen some time back as being there but not noticed. It's also known or said to not be on all HD-10L lens sets.


It seems they work well for you with the exception of that strange zone thing. Not sure what other lenses would work, especially since the GT-17 did not work out.


I have a few sets of HD-10L's over at my shop. If I'm able to check them out someday, and are found to not have that problem, you could get a set for shipping amount.


I'm getting closer with the shots I think, I only need to move forward at this point and finalize the setup.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Still trying to get familiar with the new camera...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

I didn't like the camera settings used for the previous batch, so I'm trying something different this time.


----------



## overclkr

DAMN!!!!!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spotmatic* /forum/post/14449772
> 
> 
> Here are the Cine 9 screenshots again. I just like to challenge the G90 stack God


----------



## overclkr

These are my absolute favorite from Mr. Parker. Looking foward to the east coast trip this year. I have a feeling I'm gonna be seeing some CRT BLISS.




















































[/quote]



































[/url]











Cliffy


----------



## No_U-Turn

Dang, looking through this thread i think i know where the colors i'm missing have been! LOL


Really impressive shots, guys. I have a digital pj (for convience







), but seeing both the shades of colors in the CRT screenshots and the texture of things (like skin, metal, brickwalls...) it's painfully obvious, digital still has a long way to go.


I like to take screenshots myself, so i know that the process usually omits certain things. So i don't even want to think about how these pictures must be in reality.


Keep posting these beauties.


----------



## mp20748

I'm now back to dialing in the focus...


----------



## mp20748

*1920x1080P into CRT*


----------



## mp20748

A few more this morning after last nights final focus tweak...

*1920x1080P into Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## Paul Butler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16763645
> 
> 
> A few more this morning after last nights final focus tweak...



Sickningly good improvements Mike, I am green with envy I must admit - you're bloody good at this, amazing!


----------



## dropzone7

Amazing Mike! Guy Kuo would be proud.


----------



## mp20748

starting to work on the color calibration...

*1080P into CRT (Marquee 9500LC Ultra)*


----------



## dthibode

oh, love those leaf scenes! and the blues in that last batch... so vibrant! But you already knew that.


----------



## No_U-Turn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16775051
> 
> 
> starting to work on the color calibration...
> 
> *1080P into CRT (Marquee 9500LC Ultra)*



wow. just wow....


----------



## Mr Bob

I just printed this over at the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread. I know you guys are primarily ceiling pj types, and I know in an ideal world I would also have my mothballed Barco Data 800 pj set up and dazzling you here along with the other great pix makers here - but the tech is the same, and we all gain from this proven knowledge that CRT triple gun still IS one of the absolute best mediums out there, and that that ain't gonna change!


Here's what I printed -





> Quote:
> Yesterday, while I was still unpacking from my July 4th holiday and tending brush fires that had to be taken care of immediately, we hit our 3rd year of this thread! You guys and I have been making the case for CRT tech here just on this thread for more than 3 years now! Nearly 200 pages and still going strong!
> 
> 
> I think it's safe to say that CRT triple gun has been shown to be a modality not to be trifled with. It's still going strong, and even sets that came out in the first year or 2 of HD in this country many years ago that are CRT based are still producing scintillating and jaw dropping pictures.
> 
> 
> And I thank you guys for jumping in and continuing to keep that statement made, continuously, all along.
> 
> 
> CRT based sets today are only midway along in their lifespans, just like when I started this thread 3 years and 1 day ago, and have years ahead of them of not having to worry about all those things fixed pixel still struggles with.
> 
> 
> IMHO it's still the best medium around, and has every right to stay that way, with the kind of pictures we can keep getting out of it.
> 
> 
> LONG LIVE CRT!
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=186
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Bob
> 
> 
> 
> PS - if you want to see what the BEST CRT tech is capable of, go to this thread - Screenshot War!!!!!!!!...
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...00831&page=109
> 
> 
> 
> b


----------



## ElTopo

THX Mr. Bob for shouting this out again.


CRT is the BEST and will be the BEST in the near future !



ElTopo


----------



## Gary Murrell

good stuff Mike










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

Yeah, the depth in those shots is particularly good, like you're right there, could reach out and touch them all -



b


----------



## dthibode

Mike, are you going to pick up one of those new oppo BR players? the reviews have been really good so far. Curious what it would look like with your dream machine pj.


----------



## mp20748

I'm back!


had to leave town for a minute (however long it took) last week for the entire week, just got back yesterday evening.


I'm closer to near where I want to be with the setup, but will continue posting shots for now until I find the time to really finish things. The geometry still needs attention, and that is why the convergence is also off in the lower right corner. I'll get to that later when I have more time to spend wit the PJ. For now, I'll want to chill a bit, fire up the PJ and post more shots a little later today.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16803647
> 
> 
> Mike, are you going to pick up one of those new oppo BR players? the reviews have been really good so far. Curious what it would look like with your dream machine pj.



I've only heard of the Oppo. Is it really that good?


----------



## mp20748

I turned on the PJ to warm-up for later. Put in one of the Blu Rays I'll be showing later. Took a few shots and showing them below.


My HT is not light controlled, so the images will be a bit washed out. And once it warms up, the focus and convergence will be better...


----------



## mp20748

couldn't resist. I had to take a few more before the room gets completely dark...


----------



## mp20748

U571 on Blu Ray

*1080P into my Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16808437
> 
> 
> I've only heard of the Oppo. Is it really that good?



from what I've heard (personal opinions) it's a step past the ps3 in many ways.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscp...yer/index.html


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16810276
> 
> 
> from what I've heard (personal opinions) it's a step past the ps3 in many ways.
> 
> http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscp...yer/index.html




For the first time, I read up on the Oppo. Surely from the reviews it appears to be a better Blu ray player even for image quality.


I also remember Gary M. also recommending that I get one.


My only issue is the cost that I'm seeing at $499.00. At this day and time, would that be a good price for a Blu Ray player?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16812574
> 
> 
> For the first time, I read up on the Oppo. Surely from the reviews it appears to be a better Blu ray player even for image quality.
> 
> 
> I also remember Gary M. also recommending that I get one.
> 
> 
> My only issue is the cost that I'm seeing at $499.00. At this day and time, would that be a good price for a Blu Ray player?



My thinking is with bluray you would hardly see or hear a difference. You pay for built quality, speed and features. I own a Panny 35 and PS3 and both are really nice. PS3 is a good choice and u can do all sort of things with it and still cheaper than oppo. PS3 has remained the bench mark for years now.


----------



## plain fan

I've got the Oppo and love it. I went with the Oppo because I have SACDs and DVD-As discs with plans to purchase more discs. I wanted a good player that would truly be a universal player.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## dthibode

Mike are those shots from Baraka? I haven't watched it yet but it looks amazing. Do you notice any issues with some of the white cattle? Perhaps it's the camera, but they look over exposed. Some of the fish do it too. The coast guard ship looks right though. As always, I love the colors. I watched some of Living Landscapes Hawaii yesterday, very cool.


----------



## No_U-Turn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16815296
> 
> 
> Mike are those shots from Baraka? I haven't watched it yet but it looks amazing. Do you notice any issues with some of the white cattle? Perhaps it's the camera, but they look over exposed. Some of the fish do it too. The coast guard ship looks right though. As always, I love the colors. I watched some of Living Landscapes Hawaii yesterday, very cool.



A look at the histogram of the picture with the cows shows, that white is clipping (most parts of the cows are at 255). So it's the camera/exposure, and very likely not Mike's setup. It's very hard (to the point of being impossible) to capture the full dynamic range of projectors with a digital camera and an 8bit jpg. Most of the times you get clipping somewhere, mostly in the shadows if you expose for the highlights.


I too am always amazed how fantasticly natural and smooth these screenshots look.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *No_U-Turn* /forum/post/16815379
> 
> 
> A look at the histogram of the picture with the cows shows, that white is clipping (most parts of the cows are at 255). *So it's the camera/exposure, and very likely not Mike's setup. It's very hard (to the point of being impossible) to capture the full dynamic range of projectors with a digital camera and an 8bit jpg. Most of the times you get clipping somewhere*, mostly in the shadows if you expose for the highlights.
> 
> 
> I too am always amazed how fantasticly natural and smooth these screenshots look.



This sounds about right. It's not the setup for sure. I even have the contrast set at 50, which is quite low considering I like watching it at 60 with no clipping at all.


When I take the shots, it's not a photo session. I simply put the camera on the tripod and advance or search through the DVD until i get to something worth taking. And from there I press the button on the camera. Of all the shots, I end up selecting about half of them. This all takes from 10 to 20 minutes.




The shots looks good, but it's much more there when looking directly at the screen. I'm amazed at how well the camera captures what's on the screen in those shots.


I'll post back later with some detail on what I've done and how I get these results at 1080P. It's a combination of a lot of things.


----------



## Mr Bob

Mike, is your geometry perfect yet? Your shots are amazing, esp. the depth, but they still seem a little squat - a little side-stretched, not quite tall enough. Like a circle would not be a true circle but more like a horizontal oval. I have been noticing this since you started the shots with all the new mods.


This of course does not show up in your current shots, but more like in past shots of people's heads, etc -


The ONLY thing I would change, of course -











b


----------



## dthibode

I want to make a road trip and see this Marquee with my own eyes some day!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob*  /forum/post/16815981
> 
> 
> Mike, is your geometry perfect yet?
> 
> 
> b



No, that I still need to do. I'm waiting for when I'll have the time to make that happen.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/16816468
> 
> 
> I want to make a road trip and see this Marquee with my own eyes some day!



Hey, try and make the Blend meet at Williams. It's about 60 miles from where I live, and it'll have very similar performance. I'll be pretty much duplicating what I'm doing with my Marquee. And you can still check out my Marquee anytime.


I'll link up to more on this later, but for now. The shots are showing a Highly Modified CRT projector that is fully capable of not only properly handling 1920x1080P /60hz resolution, but can also do it at 72hz as well.


Reaching this level of performance has been one of my most sort after goals. And to actually see this projector in action still blows my mind every time I fire it up..










I'm hear for anyone that would like to stop by and see what this setup looks like in action. I guarantee you it'll WOW YA!


----------



## overclkr

Sup fella's? Baraka 1080P 5000 hour G90 Stack:


----------



## overclkr


































































Cliffy


----------



## g-man5.1

Cliff without a doubt you are the master of screenshots. I can only imagine what that G90 stack must look like in person!! I hope to attend one of your meets in the near future.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g-man5.1* /forum/post/16819853
> 
> 
> Cliff without a doubt you are the master of screenshots. I can only imagine what that G90 stack must look like in person!! I hope to attend one of your meets in the near future.



Thanks. It's been a while since I've gotten off my lazy ass to get some shots done.










Cliff


----------



## HT_Fan

Cliff,


Could you and Mike work together on your screen shots please? I'm with Ken on this one...I've yet to see all of Baraka just yet, but if you guys could see to it to coordinate your screen shots I think I could just sell mine and feel like I'm good...Only thing you might need to do add an mp3 of Zamfir to complete the package.
























Tom


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HT_Fan* /forum/post/16820104
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> Could you and Mike work together on your screen shots please? I'm with Ken on this one...I've yet to see all of Baraka just yet, but if you guys could see to it to coordinate your screen shots I think I could just sell mine and feel like I'm good...Only thing you might need to do add an mp3 of Zamfir to complete the package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom



Be glad to assist you on that one big dog.










I'll tell ya though, my my my, is that one incredible transfer or what?


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




----------



## CaspianM

Cliff, some look like field shots rather than screen.


----------



## No_U-Turn

Oh man, Cliff's Baraka shots are insanely good. Will i still like my own display when i come home tonight? LOL


----------



## atlemusic

Mp nice work!







Do you use any kind of gamma boost?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/16821160
> 
> 
> Mp nice work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you use any kind of gamma boost?



Nope, no gamma boost at all. I prefer not to use it, mainly because of the following scenes where on my setup, I wouldn't want to loose the depth that I get from a linear lower end:


----------



## WTS

Mike,


You said your contrast is set at 50, what is the brightness set at. Is that setting for the above pics?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/16822146
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> You said your contrast is set at 50, what is the brightness set at. Is that setting for the above pics?




The contrast is set at 50 and the brightness is 51


----------



## g-man5.1

Mike , you have some really shots. I'm just amazed at the depth that is apparent in them. Very detailed and wonderful blacks. I wish I could get my 8500 to look as great. Job well done.


----------



## nashou66

Mike try bumping the Brightness up a few clicks i think you'll improve the shadow details a bit. but looking better each iteration.


Athanasios


----------



## WTS

Hi Mike,


Your brightness is at 51? Hmmm, like Athanasios said, I think it could use a touch more brightness. I'm still surprised you have the blacks like that at 51. I'm going to have to do some experimenting without the gamma boost. I'm getting another test board from Moome which I'll use to play around abit without the gamma boost.


----------



## mp20748

Ok, that makes sense. I'll try bumping up the brightness a couple of clicks later this evening.


My 2 groups of shots I'm using a PS3 for the Blu Ray. The PS3 is a little different from the Sony BDP 360 that I was using.


----------



## WTS

I don't know about anyone else but I found the PS3 to be somewhat softer/muted compared to my Oppo 83.


----------



## mp20748

I tried bumping the brightness up, but the results were not good..










I forgot why the brightness is set low. It's because of a few changes I've made, that's very similar to the fix for the lines on the right of the image that requires a 1.5 m resistor.


----------



## mp20748

These are using a PS3 as the player

*10920x1080P into my Marquee*


----------



## nashou66

Mikes:











Cliffs:










See why you need to up the Brightness a bit.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16826336
> 
> 
> Mikes:
> 
> 
> See why you need to up the Brightness a bit.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




I'll try again to explain this... first, my contrast is at 50 and I'm not using any gamma boost, also in this shot, there's a comparison that shows my shot and a shot from a gamma boosted 9" stack.


Pushing the brightness up would also wipe out my low end setup, so I'd rather do as I've been doing and take the shots for what they are worth....oh, I could also change the setting in the camera to brighten things up, or just accept them they way they appear to me on the screen.



You would not believe what the following shot looks like on my screen:

Mine











Cliff's


----------



## Jim Kildare

Mike, your last few shots are killer.


I don't do this very often, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your red drive is probably around 35 and looks to my color blind eyes like it should be around 10.










If you have this color calibrated, please feel free to tell me to stuff it
























Don't want to pi$$ u off as my projector has lots of your handywork.


Jim


----------



## winduptoy

Baraka...Woo-Hoo! Can I play? I need a break from working on the house...











































Mike, those aerial shots you did on the previous page; What are they from?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Kildare* /forum/post/16826707
> 
> 
> Mike, your last few shots are killer.
> 
> 
> I don't do this very often, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your red drive is probably around 35 and looks to my color blind eyes like it should be around 10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have this color calibrated, please feel free to tell me to stuff it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't want to pi$$ u off as my projector has lots of your handywork.
> 
> 
> Jim



My Marquee is partially calibrated, but that was with the Sony 360. I changed to the PS3 for those last shots and the last ones on the previous page. The reds are most likely a color space issue, or the camera. The reds are not that pronounced on the screen. I'm still just posting them as they are.


The other shots on the next page are from "HOME" Blu Ray


----------



## nashou66

Windup, you definitely are that master of that little Pj you have. I am always amazed at how well you have done your set up on it. Nice work.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

I think I have the colorspace fixed, or a better setting than before. I've also downloaded the latest version PS3 software.


----------



## mp20748

all of these and the one above were taking during the day, so it's not a really dark room.


*PS3 - FuryII - Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16829661
> 
> 
> I think I have the colorspace fixed, or a better setting than before. I've also downloaded the latest version PS3 software.



Much nicer MIKE!!!! Now you can see the blue bead necklace much better than the previous shot.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

I played with the PS3 earlier this morning. It's definitely different from the Sony BDP 360 in a lot of ways. The BDP 360 has more color space options, and that may say something about why there's such a difference in the images. It's more more obvious when watching things on the screen, so I'll not post A and B differences because I'm not sure it'll show in the shots.


I like something about them both, but wish I could have the nest of both in one player. Before this testing, I was of the opinion that there's not a lot of difference between any Blu Ray player.


One of the things that sticks out about the PS3 is it's low end. Of the 3 Blu Ray players that I have here, it has a terrible problem in the low end. No question the low end on the PS3 is broken. And with only two colorspace settings, neither of them corrects the problem.


The following scenes are really dark because they were shot in the jungle. But the PS3 makes them darker...

*PS3 - FuryII - Marquee 9500LC @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

The following are from the same settings and setup with only the BDP 360 now being used. The shots are not necessarily the same from previous batch.


There's black crush in both set of images, and it's caused from ambient light being in the room.

*Sony BDP 360 - FuryII - Marquee 9500LC @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

The following shots were taking using the Sony BDP 360 Ply Ray player into the FuryII. The BDP 360 provides a better image into my setup, in comparison to the PS3. The PS3 looks very similar, but has a low end issue. And it also has an issue of un-natural sharpness. Not sure what to call it, but it seems to be over exagerated.


Anyway, after I got back in I had a few things to do with the 909 coils. I had to make sure they were truly ready for prime time so I spent more time tweaking and dialing them in. Now, I have the focus where I want it. The only thing I plan to address on the setup going forward would be the color balance. I'll leave the geometry alone until right before I finish the room and get the 9500 covers back on the 9500.


I've also increased the contrast from 50 to 55.


These shots should show how much better i was able to dial the focus in.

*Sony BDP 360 - FuryII- Marquee 9500LC @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

more...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

more...


----------



## dropzone7

Just gets better and better Mike. I can't wait to pick your brain at William's meet this fall!


----------



## mp20748

*More 1080P into CRT*


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16826336
> 
> 
> Mikes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffs:



Mike,


You know we all love 'ya man, but you need to spend more time with a tape measure and a test pattern disc.


I hate bad geometry almost as much as bad color!











Ken Whitcomb


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16845898
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> You know we all love 'ya man, but you need to spend more time with a tape measure and a test pattern disc.
> 
> 
> I hate bad geometry almost as much as bad color!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Geometry?? what's that..


----------



## mp20748

I like these shots better, they were taking with the BDP 360 back in the chain...

*Sony BDP 360 - FuryII- Marquee 9500LC @ 1080P*


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16846008
> 
> 
> Geometry?? what's that..



I rest my case.










Come on man, loose that vertical squish!



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16846125
> 
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on man, loose that vertical squish!
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Maybe you should join everyone else who has been actually reading the captions to my post, where I've made it clear that the geometry has not been touched, and I've also recently indicated that I"M NOT going to touch the geometry until I finish the room.



So is it OK to still post shots?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16846125
> 
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on man, loose that vertical squish!
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb










Well, you should come by my place and just be appalled by my geometry. Perhaps so much so that you would just HAVE to correct it before leaving. Hint hint!!!


----------



## atlemusic

Mike, in the PS3, did you try out both the Component and RGB output for HDMI?

I know for digital's it should be Component colorspace 16-235. Anyone perhaps know whats best for CRT?


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16846200
> 
> 
> Maybe you should join everyone else who has been actually reading the captions to my post, where I've made it clear that the geometry has not been touched, and I've also recently indicated that I"M NOT going to touch the geometry until I finish the room.
> 
> 
> 
> So is it OK to still post shots?



Mike your over squeezed raster would leave wear

mark overtime so I wouldn't either use the pj and fix the room or fix the geometry before hand. It also limits your resolution. I am sure you know all this.


Also I really have not seen any edge eehhancement from PS3. In fact it is a machine that is noted that has no ringing. I am not sure why you did get too much sharpness. Keep it up.


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16846200
> 
> 
> Maybe you should join everyone else who has been actually reading the captions to my post, where I've made it clear that the geometry has not been touched, and I've also recently indicated that I"M NOT going to touch the geometry until I finish the room.
> 
> 
> 
> So is it OK to still post shots?



Nice attitude, Mike. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


Seriously, how long would it take? I'd think you would be embarassed to be known as such a resolution, Gamma, and black level perfectionist while posting screen shots with such obvious geometry errors.


Maybe instead of spending so much time taking pictures, you might consider taking an hour or two to correct it!



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## nashou66












Nashou


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16848246
> 
> 
> Nice attitude, Mike. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
> 
> 
> Seriously, how long would it take? I'd think you would be embarassed to be known as such a resolution, Gamma, and black level perfectionist while posting screen shots with such obvious geometry errors.
> 
> 
> Maybe instead of spending so much time taking pictures, you might consider taking an hour or two to correct it!
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Seriously Ken, where did you read an attitude?


I've been making it clear in the beginning when i came back into this thread posting images what I would be doing. And that's exactly what I have been doing. I chose to tweak as a went along. Where were you when I made that so clear. And If I want to leave my setup as it is or go further with it, what business is that of yours?


Are you trying to moderate or dictate how or what I post here?


hey, when I'm ready to clean up the geometry, that's what I'm going to do. If my images bother you, don't look at them.


Again, do I need your permission to post images here?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16847899
> 
> 
> Mike your over squeezed raster would leave wear
> 
> mark overtime so I wouldn't either use the pj and fix the room or fix the geometry before hand. It also limits your resolution. I am sure you know all this.



Yes, this I know - thanks. I'm not so concerned about the tube wear at this point, because my actual image is stretched off the raster (horizontally). With that, it's not going to be easy to fix the geometry. There's a lot of things I'm still doing to this projector that I did not want to mention here. Proper geometry setup is very relevant to the proper image being on the screen horizontally. right now, that's not happening. But the vertical size is correct for the aspect ratio.




> Quote:
> Also I really have not seen any edge eehhancement from PS3. In fact it is a machine that is noted that has no ringing. I am not sure why you did get too much sharpness. Keep it up.



Things are different when you go to 1080P. It's not edge enhancement. That's not what I'm seeing at 1080P. If you look back at the shots that I took when one group was done with the PS3, the other was done using the BDP 360. Look at the edges of the noses and other things out front. In the PS3 shots, the edge of the nose blooms, that's not the case with the 360. That's the best I can say from the shots, but it shows up very well here on the screen.


So no, it's not edge enhancement. I'm thinking it has something to do with colorspace.


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16848890
> 
> 
> Seriously Ken, where did you read an attitude?
> 
> 
> I've been making it clear in the beginning when i came back into this thread posting images what I would be doing. And that's exactly what I have been doing. I chose to tweak as a went along. Where were you when I made that so clear. And If I want to leave my setup as it is or go further with it, what business is that of yours?



What started as a friendly jab and constructive criticism has now devolved to personal attack. What makes you think I have been following this thread since you started posting, or went back to read all of your posts from the beginning?



> Quote:
> Are you trying to moderate or dictate how or what I post here?



I doesn't matter to me how or what you post.



> Quote:
> hey, when I'm ready to clean up the geometry, that's what I'm going to do. If my images bother you, don't look at them.



You know Mike, you may be right. Maybe I shouldn't look at the images you have been posting. But when I saw the comparison of the same two images from Baraka (yours and Cliff's), the geometry issue just jumped out. Maybe others don't notice or don't care, but the last time I checked forums were for open discussion. You are free to post images and I am free to critique them.


I have always had great respect for you and your zest for getting the most out of the Marquee chassis, but it seems that you are taking this a little too seriously. If you can't take a little criticism, perhaps you may want to reconsider how and what you post.



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into my CRT*


----------



## Gary Murrell

I was going to mention Mikes squeeze to him but I didn't bother because I know that he knows it is there and he will get around to fixing it when he can


when you get a good image dialed in it pains one to resize it and then have to work and if Mike is anything like me that takes many hours to resize a image, not very quick for me at all


Mike, you should try the new Oppo BD player, set it to 4:4:4 and enable the 36-bit deep color output, very very nice










-Gary


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16849600
> 
> 
> Mike, you should try the new Oppo BD player, set it to 4:4:4 and enable the 36-bit deep color output, very very nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary




Where can he get one of these ?


Art


----------



## plain fan

Usually there is a link at the top of the AVS forum, but you can also go to their website.


----------



## D6500Ken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16850693
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16849600
> 
> 
> Mike, you should try the new Oppo BD player, set it to 4:4:4 and enable the 36-bit deep color output, very very nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where can he get one of these ?
> 
> 
> Art
Click to expand...


Art


They've been available to the general public for a few weeks now.

http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83 



Ken Whitcomb


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/16850935
> 
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> They've been available to the general public for a few weeks now.
> 
> http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Thanks Ken.










Art


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16850693
> 
> 
> Where can he get one of these ?
> 
> 
> Art



Try here:

http://www.amazon.com/OPPO-BDP-83-Bl...8024705&sr=8-1


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16851144
> 
> 
> Try here:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/OPPO-BDP-83-Bl...8024705&sr=8-1



Thanks !. Time for another rack faceplate.










Art


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16851237
> 
> 
> Thanks !. Time for another rack faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Go to Amazon from a link on Curts web site so they gaet credit for a sale










Athanasios


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16851243
> 
> 
> Go to Amazon from a link on Curts web site so they gaet credit for a sale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Too late.


Art


----------



## nashou66

Wow your fast!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into my 9500LC*


----------



## huggy1

Oh for the love of humanity! Someone teach Mike how to use his camera









Your screenshots should be reference material.They look like my screenshots which I'd never have the balls to post











Dave


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huggy1* /forum/post/16854008
> 
> 
> Oh for the love of humanity! Someone teach Mike how to use his camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your screenshots should be reference material.They look like my screenshots which I'd never have the balls to post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave



I promise that one day I'll get all this figured out... but until then, I'll keep posting the shots, that looks like they were taking by a novice. which is exactly what I am when it comes to the camera..










warm up projector, put camera on tripod. Put in DVD, and in five minutes:

*1080P into my CRT*


----------



## Jim Kildare

Mike

If I may be so bold.........











Your gonna love this, because I know how much u love color correction cards







!!! But 4 the 5 minutes it takes throw one in and bump up the corners and sides a bit, then take a pic.


Jim


----------



## huggy1

Mike

These last ones aren't half bad










Dave


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Kildare* /forum/post/16859928
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> If I may be so bold.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your gonna love this, because I know how much u love color correction cards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!! But 4 the 5 minutes it takes throw one in and bump up the corners and sides a bit, then take a pic.
> 
> 
> Jim




Thanks Jim. Good observation - one I had overlooked.



Of the 3 point and shoot cameras that I have, each of them have a particular strength that I wish I had in one camera. The camera I'm using for these shots, I prefer of them all, but its weakness is darker and blurrier outer edges. It looks great on the screen, but I can't get the camera to see what I'm seeing. I got a PM once pointing this out, but being one that does not have an eye for this stuff, I could not follow what to do to correct or improve things.


I tried what was suggested by moving the camera closer to the screen and then adjusting the zoom. I tried that a few times but did not notice a difference, or did not understand what I should be achieving, so I forgot to tweak further, and every time from there I put the camera on the tripod. I went back to the easiest way to use it.


I've gotten a few PM's on this, with one that was very harsh, in letting me know how bad my shots are. One of the reasons i keeo posting is in hope of actually getting better at seeing or understanding what I need to be doing..














> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huggy1* /forum/post/16860389
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> These last ones aren't half bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave



Now those I had no idea how they would come out - thanks. I just threw in a Blu Ray and fired away. I have a few projects that are headache worthy, so every now and then firing up the PJ and taking a few quick shots is more like a relief to me. Plus it feels good every now and then when someone does notice a good shot and will post about it..


----------



## mp20748

This time i moved the camera forward with out zoom. I also changed one of the settings to a "Night" setting.


*1080P into my Lowly CRT*


----------



## kal

I would just like Mike to fix his aspect ratio. For years now every screenshot has faces stretched horizontally.










Kal


----------



## dropzone7

Wow! You guys are ruthless.


----------



## mp20748

Man, I'm doing good so far.....no one has notice that I'm also not set to 6500K..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16861944
> 
> 
> Man, I'm doing good so far.....no one has notice that I'm also not set to 6500K..



Doesnt matter with screen shots mike cause you need three things to be set to 6500k your PJ, your Camera, and the display viewing your screen shot.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16864242
> 
> 
> Doesnt matter with screen shots mike cause you need three things to be set to 6500k your PJ, your Camera, and the display viewing your screen shot.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Well, since being a stickler about something that has absolutely nothing to do with performance, image quality or anything else that would be a REAL yard stick to grade HD video performance, why not also be concerned with it not being 6500K? Why only focus on one thing when there's so many other things that make up the pie.


Btw, I don't recall anywhere in this thread where there were rules for entering, or what the requirements were for posting shots. And hey, I've made it clear, that I'm not going to touch some things until later... and there was a reason for doing it that way. but of course, since there's no rules, why is it a concern. And if it's a concern, then why not raise issue about some of the other flaws in the shots that were posted. other than myself and keven (pixel guy), everyone else went right under the radar. but of course, that is because I chose to not pull out my magnifying glass and expose some things that either bothered me, or just were not what i would call, ready for prime time. But, who am I to say who and what should be posted, especially since there's no rules or guidelines for posting shots.


Oh well, I guess I'll go fire up my lowly (geometry flawed) Marquee 9500LC Ultra. And then take some more offensive shots........oh wait. I just got something in today for my setup that could make a difference.......So I think I'll simply switch over to my other recall, that's NOT on LONG retrace, and then touch up on the convergence and see what this monster can do..










I told y'all, I was going to be posting some shots for FUN........... I'm getting ready starting today to change some of that..but still, I'll be posting for fun..


----------



## dthibode

Keep em coming Mike! When I get some time I'll do some more myself. Although not much was pointed out last time I posted.







Perhaps I should adjust my v size first!


----------



## CaspianM

The crux of the issue is pre-conceived expectation. Lets face it you are Mike Parker and the name carries a burden.

Digital cameras do a white balance (if in auto WB mode) so it will somewhat correct for your unclibrated D65.


----------



## nashou66

Mike I wans't criticizing your grayscale, i was just saying that no one should criticize the greyscale or colors since its impossible to know how they look in person due to those three things I mentioned above.


Now the Geometry is a whole other story as ken mentioned earlier










Nashou


----------



## mp20748

Projector is warming up on the second recall....It's not quite there yet, but I've taking a few shots during warm-up. Not sure if it's permitted, but these shots are not converged at all other than the center.

*1080P into my CRT*


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16864911
> 
> 
> Digital cameras do a white balance (if in auto WB mode) so it will somewhat correct for your unclibrated D65.



No digital camera will do it correctly as they don't (and can't) know what sort of light is being shown. Most have settings for tungsten, incandescent, daylight, etc. but they never really work right so I don't bother. Instead I do like all of the pro's do and carry a photo grey card:











They're only a few bucks.


You take a test shot first with the grey card followed by the real shot, and then later when you develop to photo using your digital photo development software you have a known reference.


Yes, this means you need a better camera (typically a digital SLR) that lets you shoot in "RAW" mode which allows you to "develop" the JPG the way you want later. Don't let your camera try and guess what the colours are (digital cameras don't understand colour) - give it a reference instead.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: Posting screenshots in home theater forums is more an example of how well someone understands the digital photography workflow process than how good their home theater projector actually looks in person.


Kal


----------



## mp20748

Converged, warmed up. And now with the latest version FuryII in the chain.


*1080P into CRT*


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/16865371
> 
> 
> No digital camera will do it correctly as they don't (and can't) know what sort of light is being shown. Most have settings for tungsten, incandescent, daylight, etc. but they never really work right so I don't bother. Instead I do like all of the pro's do and carry a photo grey card:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're only a few bucks.
> 
> 
> You take a test shot first with the grey card followed by the real shot, and then later when you develop to photo using your digital photo development software you have a known reference.
> 
> 
> Yes, this means you need a better camera (typically a digital SLR) that lets you shoot in "RAW" mode which allows you to "develop" the JPG the way you want later. Don't let your camera try and guess what the colours are (digital cameras don't understand colour) - give it a reference instead.
> 
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: Posting screenshots in home theater forums is more an example of how well someone understands the digital photography workflow process than how good their home theater projector actually looks in person.
> 
> 
> Kal



Yes I also said that it somewhat corrects the WB.

Some Dcams do a better job than others. Screen shots are not that exact work and I don't even botter with raw unless the photos are going to be published with wide audience. But if raw is preferred that is fine.

I have a lot jpeg's out of my nikon and have had no serious issues with WB but I am sure raw produces more accurate WB ONLY if one knows what needs to be done. Post processing is itself a skilled job. Manual WB is also a hassle unless you are serious about your captures.


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into my CRT via HD FuryII V1.51*


----------



## winduptoy

Way to go, Mike! Geometry is much better.


----------



## winduptoy

Athanasios;


Thank you for your comments a few pages back. I finally finished the bathroom project, which was consuming most of my time outside of work. I have been a very dull boy. Will post some new stuff in a few days. Got any recent shots of your blend?


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, what do you think of the latest v1.51 HDFII?, it is a POS from what I have seen, the level changes don't let you use gamma tweaking at all










I am inputting 4:4:4 YPbPr from a VP50pro, also unlike what Curt's site advertises it will not accept 4:2:2 10-bit, got nothing out of the Fury folks on either issue and I am not paying some jag-off to reprogram something that should come working correctly in the first place, to make matters worse I was IP banned from Curts forum(can't even read) so I can't get customer service on something that was purchased from them










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

Glad to see you finally got the time to remedy that squishedness in your geometry, Mike. Adds the finishing touch to your incredible shots!











b


----------



## No_U-Turn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/16865371
> 
> 
> No digital camera will do it correctly as they don't (and can't) know what sort of light is being shown. Most have settings for tungsten, incandescent, daylight, etc. but they never really work right so I don't bother. Instead I do like all of the pro's do and carry a photo grey card:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're only a few bucks.
> 
> 
> You take a test shot first with the grey card followed by the real shot, and then later when you develop to photo using your digital photo development software you have a known reference.
> 
> 
> Yes, this means you need a better camera (typically a digital SLR) that lets you shoot in "RAW" mode which allows you to "develop" the JPG the way you want later. Don't let your camera try and guess what the colours are (digital cameras don't understand colour) - give it a reference instead.
> 
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: Posting screenshots in home theater forums is more an example of how well someone understands the digital photography workflow process than how good their home theater projector actually looks in person.
> 
> 
> Kal



When taking screenshots from a front projector, how would you use a grey card correctly?


Just project a white frame, hold the grey card in the picture and use that for reference for all following pictures?


Or would you pause the frame you want to take a picture of, take two photos (one with the grey card in the picture and one without it), use the first picture to do determine the correction in RAW, save that correction (in your RAW software) and apply it to the second picture?


I use a DSLR for screenshots (digital pj), but i am struggling a lot with the white balance. So far i try to correct it with a rather crude trial and error approach. I have yet to buy a grey card though.


EDIT:

Come to think of it, projecting an image with colors over the greycard would probably be interpreted as a color cast. Correcting it this way wouldn't work i think...


----------



## frenchlake

overclkr, I love the movie 300!


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *No_U-Turn* /forum/post/16874007
> 
> 
> When taking screenshots from a front projector, how would you use a grey card correctly?



You don't. Make sure your projector's greyscale is correct to begin with (I have a guide in my signature) and then project a grey box of around 40-60 IRE from any test disc and use that instead of a grey card.


The neat thing is that even if your greyscale isn't perfect (say the grey box you project doesn't look 100% grey) when you tell your photo development tool to accept that as grey, it'll be corrected.


Now this won't work right if your greyscale is all over the place: If it's (say) too red at the low end, too green in the middle, and too blue at the high end, using a 50 IRE (middle) range will remove green from everywhere.


Kal


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16873330
> 
> 
> Mike, what do you think of the latest v1.51 HDFII?, it is a POS from what I have seen, the level changes don't let you use gamma tweaking at all



Actually Mike loves it. He posted *here* :



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Parker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The following shots were taking from my setup, but this time I went from a first version HDFury2 to the very latest version to date (v1.51).
> 
> 
> The differences from going from the earlier version to this latest version HDFury2 is huge. Or they are on my setup.
> 
> 
> This is what I've noticed right out. The low end is improved tremendously, and so is the dynamic range. The colors indicate a near perfect color space hand shake with my Sony BDP 360 Bly Ray player.
> 
> 
> Definitely a good and huge improvement over the one I was using before.



And *here* :



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike Parker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The performance difference was HUGE. Especially the low end. And I'm sure this one is doing the right color space.
> 
> 
> I think I read somewhere that the V1.51 would have a low end fix and color space improvement. No question that's the case with the one i have here.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16873330
> 
> 
> I am inputting 4:4:4 YPbPr from a VP50pro, also unlike what Curt's site advertises it will not accept 4:2:2 10-bit, got nothing out of the Fury folks on either issue and I am not paying some jag-off to reprogram something that should come working correctly in the first place...



Now that's not very nice. Barry's a nice guy.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16873330
> 
> 
> ...to make matters worse I was IP banned from Curts forum(can't even read) so I can't get customer service on something that was purchased from them



Email [email protected] . If a solution can't be found you like you're more than welcome to return it for a full refund and purchase it elsewhere if you think your support's going to be better. Just remember to buy all the extras (VGA cables, component cables, power supplies,etc) that you need but don't get at other places.


Yes, Curt had you IP banned but as you know there were many reasons for that. You had many warnings and have noboby to blame but yourself. Please don't get into this here. It's not the topic. I've already gone off-topic enough as it is.


Kal


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/16875900
> 
> 
> You don't. Make sure your projector's greyscale is correct to begin with (I have a guide in my signature) and then project a grey box of around 40-60 IRE from any test disc and use that instead of a grey card.
> 
> 
> The neat thing is that even if your greyscale isn't perfect (say the grey box you project doesn't look 100% grey) when you tell your photo development tool to accept that as grey, it'll be corrected.
> 
> 
> Now this won't work right if your greyscale is all over the place: If it's (say) too red at the low end, too green in the middle, and too blue at the high end, using a 50 IRE (middle) range will remove green from everywhere.
> 
> 
> Kal



Hmm...I need to try this with my camera. It has a white balance adjustment setting but I think I have always projected an 80IRE pattern, maybe even 100IRE.


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16876002
> 
> 
> Hmm...I need to try this with my camera. It has a white balance adjustment setting but I think I have always projected an 80IRE pattern, maybe even 100IRE.



You don't do anything in the camera. You need to have a camera that shoots in RAW mode (not JPG) and then in the photo development software you click on the 40-60 IRE box you took a shot of to tell the software that that "that" is what white is. How you set your camera is irrelevant as you're shooting in RAW mode. The software in the PC does the development, not the camera. When you shoot RAW all the settings like white balance, sharpness, etc are ignored.


Kal


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/16876022
> 
> 
> You don't do anything in the camera. You need to have a camera that shoots in RAW mode (not JPG) and then in the photo development software you click on the 40-60 IRE box you took a shot of to tell the software that that "that" is what white is. How you set your camera is irrelevant as you're shooting in RAW mode. The software in the PC does the development, not the camera. When you shoot RAW all the settings like white balance, sharpness, etc are ignored.
> 
> 
> Kal



Ah, scrap that idea then. I can't drop $2-3k on a DSLR right now.


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16876068
> 
> 
> Ah, scrap that idea then. I can't drop $2-3k on a DSLR right now.



No need! A $500 Canon Rebel will do it. Cheaper if it's used.


Kal


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/16876570
> 
> 
> No need! A $500 Canon Rebel will do it. Cheaper if it's used.
> 
> 
> Kal



Hmm..I didn't realize a DSLR could be had for that price. I guess the real expense comes in with the lenses and upgrades. We have a few point and shoot cameras right now and a pseudo-SLR Sony that works well for vacation pictures and holiday stuff. I might start looking for a secondhand Rebel to play around with.


----------



## bobbijean

I like the color of CRT. I saw Alans CRT and was very impressed. I see why CRT is still considered an elite technology by many. That right guys Im a woman but were aloud to enjoy this stuff too.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bobbijean* /forum/post/16878007
> 
> 
> I like the color of CRT. I saw Alans CRT and was very impressed. I see why CRT is still considered an elite technology by many. That right guys Im a woman but were aloud to enjoy this stuff too.



Nice to see you on the darkside.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Damn spammers......


Anywho, found these tonight.
































































Cliff


----------



## overclkr

And these.




































































































Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Ahhhh, more screenshot lovin'


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16873330
> 
> 
> Mike, what do you think of the latest v1.51 HDFII?, it is a POS from what I have seen, the level changes don't let you use gamma tweaking at all



Honestly speaking Gary, it is without a doubt, one of the best upgrades or changes I've seen to happen for TRUE High Definition performance.


Not sure why you're having problems with it working with the gamma tweakibg, but based on what I've observed from the huge changes that it has over the previous version of the FuryII, it makes perfect sense that things would be different with gamma tweaking (as you knew it).


For instance, on my setup with the non 1.51 version of the FuryII, I had the Brightness set to: 51. When i put in the version 1.51, I had to lower the brightness to: 45 On my setup that's a huge difference in how things work with the low end when that amount of changes to the brightness setting has been made. And If I were somehow leaning towards going with a gamma boost device, that's definitely not going to happen now.


In fact, the low end is so drastically improved, I'm wondering If I need to further lower the brightness. Sometimes it looks that way. I'm saying that because I've yet to look into a more precise black level calibration. And it looks as if the dynamic range of this version of the FuryII, has also fixed that Dynamic Range shortcoming that's so common on these devices. Not only that, the colors are so well defined now. A HUGE improvement on my setup!


My last shots that I took with the version 1.51 FuryII was using a memory that I had set aside for when I did get my hands on one of them, that I would go with the proper aspect ratio and then dial things in better. Which at this point would put me in the 5th gear of my 6th speed transmission. The changes were so greatly improved that I forgot that I had to focus that second memory that I'm now using. I did get around to doing that last night after I got back in. And I took a few more shots with things better dialed in on the second memory.


I'll post the shot in a few..










The dynamic range of the improved version pushes my Marquee to another level...


No LUG's (Hi Rez tubes) - No RED C element (color filtering) - No gamma devices (low end tweak circuit) - just PURE 1080P Performance....


It's off the chain Gary..
















> Quote:
> I am inputting 4:4:4 YPbPr from a VP50pro, also unlike what Curt's site advertises it will not accept 4:2:2 10-bit, got nothing out of the Fury folks on either issue and I am not paying some jag-off to reprogram something that should come working correctly in the first place
> 
> -Gary



Well, it spite of the few issues this device as well as some others has had (and still have). I'm still grateful that they exist, or that someone took on the task to make it happen. And in doing so, I don't look at these devices and their sales as simple as purchasing something off the internet. So I'm not so concerned about turn-around time, because I know first hand what's involved in making special devices happen. They are all being done by very small, maybe one or two people operations. That helps with cost, and because there's no teams to be involved in the tweaking and de-bugging of the devices, it makes perfect sense that there are delays and sometimes it seems that a problem is not being looked at at all. And I also know that's not the case with those folk (whoever they are) that's working with and on the Fury. It's really a GREAT little device that offers HUGE performance for what it sells for.


Devices like the Fury requires a lot of work for the people who made them, because there's a ton of color-space and HDMI compatibility issues out there to go around. And these same issues have been creating serious issues for the entire industry...


So is it fair for us to expect perfection from the few individuals who went out on a limb to make this happens for us. Do you really think it's paying off for them?


----------



## mp20748

*Sony BDP 360 - HD FuryII v1.51 - my Super Marquee 9500LC Ultra @1080P*


----------



## dthibode

Ok, here's my 4th attempt at some decent screenshots. All were cropped and resized. 3 shots of each were taken at -2, 0 and +2 with a Canon EOS Rebel SLR then combined with Photoshop CS3's HDR batch. We did the white balance on the screen with the 50ire window from AVSHD first. This is as close as I can get to an accurate representation of what I'm seeing with my eyes. Oh, and this is on my grayscale calibrated Barco Graphics 808.



























































































































































Let me know what you think!


----------



## dropzone7

I think these look good, just a bit bluish in the last few. I certainly wouldn't call them oversaturated like a lot of the shots here are.


----------



## CaspianM

Fifth elements color looks off. Most look undersaturated.


----------



## atlemusic

Overclocker! so sweet!


----------



## winduptoy

Cliff; your Baraka shots are da Bomb! SAAAWEET!

Have you tried Galapogos yet? Brought to you by the folks that gave you Planet Earth.


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/16873330
> 
> 
> Mike, what do you think of the latest v1.51 HDFII?, it is a POS from what I have seen, the level changes don't let you use gamma tweaking at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am inputting 4:4:4 YPbPr from a VP50pro, also unlike what Curt's site advertises it will not accept 4:2:2 10-bit, got nothing out of the Fury folks on either issue and I am not paying some jag-off to reprogram something that should come working correctly in the first place, to make matters worse I was IP banned from Curts forum(can't even read) so I can't get customer service on something that was purchased from them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Contrary to your experience, my HDFuryII v1.51 works great at all the video types that my RadianceXE can output to my HDFuryII and then to my Cine9, which are YCbCr 444, YCbCr 422, RGB PC level, RGB Video level. The image is very good and stable in all of these modes. I generally use RGB Video level as my preferred output.


----------



## mp20748

I took a stab at "Watchmen" but I'll have to get back to that movie later sometime, it's seriously dark.


*Blu Ray - FuryII v1.51 - Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1080P*


----------



## mp20748

more...


----------



## benny

G'day folks,


Here's a quick pic of the chief before he got sunburnt










BR909 onto a 2.2m wide Studiotek 130 screen, shot with a Nikon 8700 ( ISO 200 , 1.66s @ F3.4 ). Original picture size 3264x2448 then cropped and resized in PS-CS4 ... no further processing done.


Cheers all,


Russ


disclaimer: screen shots are an exercise in amusement and don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.


----------



## huggy1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benny* /forum/post/16892808
> 
> 
> G'day folks,
> 
> 
> Here's a quick pic of the chief before he got sunburnt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BR909 onto a 2.2m wide Studiotek 130 screen, shot with a Nikon 8700 ( ISO 200 , 1.66s @ F3.4 ). Original picture size 3264x2448 then cropped and resized in PS-CS4 ... no further processing done.
> 
> 
> Cheers all,
> 
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> disclaimer: screen shots are an exercise in amusement and don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.



I wish I could take screenshots like this,mine suck ass big time.I bet they look even better in person.

CRT still rocks!


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benny* /forum/post/16892808



CLIFF'S:


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huggy1* /forum/post/16893208
> 
> 
> I wish I could take screenshots like this,mine suck ass big time.I bet they look even better in person.
> 
> CRT still rocks!




Those shots are really easy. They are close-up full color and focus shots.


Nothing about them really shows or reveals HD performance. There's no bandwidth of pastel color challenge.


I took that same one again, but for the first time with the FuryII 1.51 and brightness calibrated.


*1080P into my CRT*











In the three different shots, notice the color intensity. And also be aware that I do not have a RED C element. THE PS camera does over exaggerate the colors a bit from what's on the screen, but it's actually close to what you would see if wtaching that same image a on your PC monitor at a lower resolution.


Performance shots are always bandwidth challenging because they should reveal how well a projector resolves the bandwidth that it operates at. When the bandwidth is properly resolved, there should always be tons of finer detail in objects in the backgrounds - that's really what HD is all about.


----------



## mp20748

The following shots are challenging shots, because they have a lot of stuff in the backgrounds. That would usually soften or blur if not properly resolved.


And also if/when not properly resolved, the objects or stuff in the backgrounds would loose color detail (lost of color range / muted colors or weak pastels).


----------



## atlemusic

I call for som gameshots with PS3. That would be nice! For example Little Big Planet


----------



## dthibode

I was looking at the shots above of the chief and had a realization. Everyone should be proud of those. Most of the (crt) shots posted here are excellent. WTG CRT and those that put the time into them!


----------



## benny

I must admit I've never heard of the Barco Reality 909 described as being bandwidth limited










Cheers all,


Russ


disclaimer: screen shots are an exercise in amusement and don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benny* /forum/post/16895301
> 
> 
> I must admit I've never heard of the Barco Reality 909 described as being bandwidth limited



Well, I'm glad you've joined the thread..










I've been waiting for a Barco 909 to join in.




That particular shot is not a real bandwidth challenging shot. There's really no fine lines or detail far in the backgrounds. I'll have to post some challenging shots later in a few days when I get back..


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benny* /forum/post/16895301
> 
> 
> I must admit I've never heard of the Barco Reality 909 described as being bandwidth limited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers all,
> 
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> disclaimer: screen shots are an exercise in amusement and don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.



Great shot showing the fine detail available in this shot. I believe this is a very challenging shot that clearly shows MP has a lot more work to do to match this level of detail, both in the low light areas as well as the high light areas. I suppose it could be that you have a better camera or took it at higher resolution, but whatever the cause, your shot is very sharp indeed.


Bob


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citation4444* /forum/post/16896826
> 
> 
> Great shot showing the fine detail available in this shot. I believe this is a very challenging shot that clearly shows MP has a lot more work to do to match this level of detail, both in the low light areas as well as the high light areas. I suppose it could be that you have a better camera or took it at higher resolution, but whatever the cause, your shot is very sharp indeed.
> 
> 
> Bob



The contributing difference is post sharpening that MP doesn't do.


----------



## Citation4444




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16896864
> 
> 
> The contributing difference is post sharpening that MP doesn't do.



There will always be a reason.


----------



## CaspianM

Screen shots are what they are. Some set in camera sharpening too high and some don't. Others do post processing that varies.

In above picture the very noticeable noise level in dark area and ringing are indicative of high level of post sharpening applied.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Citation4444* /forum/post/16897299
> 
> 
> There will always be a reason.




MP's post processed:











Benny's:


----------



## crt nuts

Hey guys... those are all good looking shots being posted. Wish I could do the same, sadly I'm out of that league. My 8500 is totally stock with the only additions being Moome card and HD144 lenses. I'm happy but now I really want a 9incher.


By the way ...the 909 shot shows some convergence shortcomings. Left 1/3 shows red is off and right 1/3 shows blue is off there Benny. Still great screen shot all the same.


Mike.... if ever you need to make a donation, let me know and I will drive through a blizard if need be......hehe


----------



## HT_Fan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16878211




Cliff,


Why in the world did you include this 'SHOT'?







It was one that Phoebe Cates apparently couldn't take!!!
























What a classic movie...


----------



## benny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/16898900
> 
> 
> By the way ...the 909 shot shows some convergence shortcomings. Left 1/3 shows red is off and right 1/3 shows blue is off there Benny. Still great screen shot all the same.



G'day CN,


I'm aware of some minor issues in the extreme left and right with regard to convergence anomolies, but I put it down to the fact that I am using way more phosphur than the engineers at Barco ever factured in. When I initially set it up at the recommended throw distance, I could achieve essentially perfect convergence across the board. I wasn't particularly happy with all the extra phosphur face I could see being available, so I decreased the horizontal porches of my signal and moved the projector about 9 inches closer. The upshot of that however is that the convergence circuitry struggles a little at the extremes. It's a compromise I'm willing to accept to gain maximum phosphur usage for my image though. I'm still learning how to tame this beast also










In my screen shots I have tried to portray the shadow detail I see in reality. This usually means a bit of noise appears in the picture, as the Nikon is getting a bit old in the tooth now as far as sensitivity in its sensor. I absolutely HATE not seeing all the detail in the blacks. CRT's excel in that regard when given a little gamma assistance.


Here's a piccie some might be familiar with.


Cheers,


Russ


disclaimer: screen shots are an exercise in amusement and don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice! If you like that one you'll enjoy the cover of my website...












b


----------



## Mark_A_W




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16893725
> 
> 
> Those shots are really easy. They are close-up full color and focus shots.
> 
> 
> Nothing about them really shows or reveals HD performance. There's no bandwidth of pastel color challenge.
> 
> 
> I took that same one again, but for the first time with the FuryII 1.51 and brightness calibrated.
> 
> 
> *1080P into my CRT*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the three different shots, notice the color intensity. And also be aware that I do not have a RED C element. THE PS camera does over exaggerate the colors a bit from what's on the screen, but it's actually close to what you would see if wtaching that same image a on your PC monitor at a lower resolution.
> 
> 
> Performance shots are always bandwidth challenging because they should reveal how well a projector resolves the bandwidth that it operates at. When the bandwidth is properly resolved, there should always be tons of finer detail in objects in the backgrounds - that's really what HD is all about.




I've stayed out of this thread as I basically think it's a pointless pissing contest more about cameras than projectors...


But Mike, are you KIDDING ME???


Your shots are blurry. They are ALL blurry. You go on about 1080p, when they look like compressed Xvids, let alone DVD.


The colours are way oversaturated.


Cliff's and Russ's images are nice eye candy, nothing more. But they at least are sharp.


I'm sorry Mike, but I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer.



If you guys want to compare bandwidth, post the 1:1 black white money shots - that's the only one that counts.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/16905150
> 
> 
> I've stayed out of this thread as I basically think it's a pointless pissing contest more about cameras than projectors...
> 
> 
> But Mike, are you KIDDING ME???
> 
> 
> Your shots are blurry. They are ALL blurry. You go on about 1080p, when they look like compressed Xvids, let alone DVD.
> 
> 
> The colours are way oversaturated.
> 
> 
> Cliff's and Russ's images are nice eye candy, nothing more. But they at least are sharp.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry Mike, but I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer.



I appreciate what you're saying here, but in the future it would make more sense if you understood what's going on with these shots.


First,before you comment about colors being "over saturated" first understand that it maybe from a cheap PS camera, because THERE are NO COLOR ADJUSTMENTS on my setup!


And if you actually knew first hand of some of the shots, you'll know that most if not all of the nature HD shots have been color boosted.


So rather than comment based on not having a true reference, it's best to keep quiet.


Also, my shots may appear to NOT be sharp, and that may also be due to the PS camera, which does not do too well on focus, because of it's lens.


However, those who are aware of what I have been posting, without a doubt have been able to clearly see how well I'm resolving the bandwidth. There's a plenty of shots that have proven that, but for some reason, that same old low resolution color boosted shot keeps popping up..










The one pixel on test, well Mark.How many times do I need to post that?? And being the only one on these and other threads that has done so, and has done so at even 1920x1080P @ 72hz, why do you continue to challenge me to do so?


Do you want me to post it one more time, or would you feel better If i had someone to come over and report back to you how well things look in person. And let me assure you of this, there's no focus issues, even at 1080P 72hz.


So rather than continue (this not your first time) post this nonsense and send me PM's with the same base less comments.


Can my setup 100% resolve 1080P 60 or 72hz, absolutely! Do I need to FURTHER prove that to you or anybody else - no!


Also, and take this from someone who actually knows what fully resolved 1080P looks like. I've said this so many times in the past, when 1080P is fully resolved, there's a huge difference in the colors, the range and intensity of the colors is something much greater than what's there with the lower resolutions. You see, when you've experienced this, you don't always need the test pattern, the colors will also confirm how well it's being resolved.


And if I was that concerned with your constant criticism, I'd get a better camera. But i see no need for that, since there are so many others out there that appreciate the shots as they are. And truly understand what's going on with them, that I'd just rather continue to post themas they appear. And if it continue to cost you more grief than what you keep indicating, then you should contact AVS and let them know about your on going grief and how troubled you are about my shots not being as good or better than others. And maybe they're delete the thread or band me from posting my shots here...


But until that happens, I'll keep posting them as simple as I take them.No sharpening, touch-up, enhancements or better cameras.



Sorry they've been causing you so much grief..


----------



## CaspianM

Mike down load this free software and tweak your images to match your screen image if you desire.
http://download.live.com/photogallery 

I used this to tweak your own image on previous page. All I did was to reduce saturation and increase sharpness.


----------



## Mark_A_W




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16906254
> 
> 
> I appreciate what you're saying here, but in the future it would make more sense if you understood what's going on with these shots.
> 
> 
> First,before you comment about colors being "over saturated" first understand that it maybe from a cheap PS camera, because THERE are NO COLOR ADJUSTMENTS on my setup!
> 
> 
> And if you actually knew first hand of some of the shots, you'll know that most if not all of the nature HD shots have been color boosted.
> 
> 
> So rather than comment based on not having a true reference, it's best to keep quiet.
> 
> 
> Also, my shots may appear to NOT be sharp, and that may also be due to the PS camera, which does not do too well on focus, because of it's lens.
> 
> 
> However, those who are aware of what I have been posting, without a doubt have been able to clearly see how well I'm resolving the bandwidth. There's a plenty of shots that have proven that, but for some reason, that same old low resolution color boosted shot keeps popping up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one pixel on test, well Mark.How many times do I need to post that?? And being the only one on these and other threads that has done so, and has done so at even 1920x1080P @ 72hz, why do you continue to challenge me to do so?
> 
> 
> Do you want me to post it one more time, or would you feel better If i had someone to come over and report back to you how well things look in person. And let me assure you of this, there's no focus issues, even at 1080P 72hz.
> 
> 
> So rather than continue (this not your first time) post this nonsense and send me PM's with the same base less comments.
> 
> 
> Can my setup 100% resolve 1080P 60 or 72hz, absolutely! Do I need to FURTHER prove that to you or anybody else - no!
> 
> 
> Also, and take this from someone who actually knows what fully resolved 1080P looks like. I've said this so many times in the past, when 1080P is fully resolved, there's a huge difference in the colors, the range and intensity of the colors is something much greater than what's there with the lower resolutions. You see, when you've experienced this, you don't always need the test pattern, the colors will also confirm how well it's being resolved.
> 
> 
> And if I was that concerned with your constant criticism, I'd get a better camera. But i see no need for that, since there are so many others out there that appreciate the shots as they are. And truly understand what's going on with them, that I'd just rather continue to post themas they appear. And if it continue to cost you more grief than what you keep indicating, then you should contact AVS and let them know about your on going grief and how troubled you are about my shots not being as good or better than others. And maybe they're delete the thread or band me from posting my shots here...
> 
> 
> But until that happens, I'll keep posting them as simple as I take them.No sharpening, touch-up, enhancements or better cameras.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry they've been causing you so much grief..




Mike


I own Baraka. I own it on VHS, DVD letterbox, DVD Anamorphic and now Bluray.


I've watched it hundreds of times.


I'm now looking at the Chief on my 24" colour calibrated CRT monitor. This monitor truly has no problem with bandwidth at 1080p.


The Chiefs eyemask does not glow Red. It is red, but it does not glow.



I do not understand how you can say your oversaturated images, with an absence of detail, tell us that you have a high bandwidth system.


How do these shots tell you that you're bandwidth is extraordinary? Just tells me the colours are too high, either in the displayed image or the camera. The red is blooming out where it does not belong.


I don't mind if you post Screenshots, but I do mind if you try and make them out to be something that they are not.


And for others in this post, I really, really mind when others get accused of cheating. I'm seen the 909 and it really is that sharp - it looks as sharp at 1.5 screenwidths as my 24" CRT monitor does (although currently the colours are a bit too pastel). Both Cliff's and Russ's shot of the Chief are close to how that appears, although my colours are actually in between. (It will be redder on the NEC projector as the Sony phosphurs are a bit shy of the correct primaries).


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/16910056
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> I own Baraka. I own it on VHS, DVD letterbox, DVD Anamorphic and now Bluray.
> 
> 
> I've watched it hundreds of times.
> 
> 
> I'm now looking at the Chief on my 24" colour calibrated CRT monitor. This monitor truly has no problem with bandwidth at 1080p.
> 
> 
> The Chiefs eyemask does not glow Red. It is red, but it does not glow.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand how you can say your oversaturated images, with an absence of detail, tell us that you have a high bandwidth system.
> 
> 
> How do these shots tell you that you're bandwidth is extraordinary? Just tells me the colours are too high, either in the displayed image or the camera. The red is blooming out where it does not belong.
> 
> 
> I don't mind if you post Screenshots, but I do mind if you try and make them out to be something that they are not.
> 
> 
> And for others in this post, I really, really mind when others get accused of cheating. I'm seen the 909 and it really is that sharp - it looks as sharp at 1.5 screenwidths as my 24" CRT monitor does (although currently the colours are a bit too pastel). Both Cliff's and Russ's shot of the Chief are close to how that appears, although my colours are actually in between. (It will be redder on the NEC projector as the Sony phosphurs are a bit shy of the correct primaries).



You insist on using that shot of the Chief as a reference to HIGH bandwidth, when it's really a very low bandwidth image. And in no way could it or would it represent HIGH performance in any way..










So since you're really clueless as to what you're talking about, I suggest you go back to being quiet.


There's plenty of high bandwidth shots posted. Thepeople who really understands them, know which ones they are... here's a clue, they are NEVER close-up shots..











Concerning the Barco 909. I service and maintain a very large number of them. I have been doing so for the past 6 years. I have four of them in my shop.




> Quote:
> I don't mind if you post Screenshots, but I do mind if you try and make them out to be something that they are not.



Well, since I'm the only person that has actually posted that test pattern that you yourself says would be THE ruler for bandwidth, then that within itself should shut you up, but no, it's just not enough is it..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16906340
> 
> 
> Mike down load this free software and tweak your images to match your screen image if you desire.
> http://download.live.com/photogallery
> 
> I used this to tweak your own image on previous page. All I did was to reduce saturation and increase sharpness.




Thanks dude..










I'll try and download this to my laptop. I'm out of town this week, but will look at trying this out tonight.


I'll post back...


----------



## mp20748

My first attempt:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HT_Fan* /forum/post/16899318
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> Why in the world did you include this 'SHOT'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was one that Phoebe Cates apparently couldn't take!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a classic movie...



Bet he wishes that thing was aiming somewhere else.

















Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

I played with the following shots using the tweaking software.


*previous 1080P from my 9500LC Ultra redone with photo software*


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/16905150
> 
> 
> I've stayed out of this thread as I basically think it's a pointless pissing contest more about cameras than projectors...
> 
> 
> But Mike, are you KIDDING ME???
> 
> 
> Your shots are blurry. They are ALL blurry. You go on about 1080p, when they look like compressed Xvids, let alone DVD.
> 
> 
> The colours are way oversaturated.
> 
> 
> Cliff's and Russ's images are nice eye candy, nothing more. But they at least are sharp.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry Mike, but I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> If you guys want to compare bandwidth, post the 1:1 black white money shots - that's the only one that counts.



If this is how you get into the thread, why don't you just continue to stay out. That wasn't a question.


I understand having an opinion on what you see, but basically coming in and pissing in someone's kool-aid, and for no reason, smacks of little man syndrome, or little something syndrome. You really felt a burning desire to come and trash someone's screenshots? Pictures of a picture? Really?


Wow.


----------



## lexx21

Mark, his last shots are not blurry. And if he is posting jpeg images, then yes, those are compressed by nature of the image format. If he is showing anything from a dvd, BD, HD-Dvd, then those also are compressed because they would be mpeg or h.264 format. If you don't want compressed data, use a laserdisc or a vhs.


Most folks on here can't afford a blad with a 20mp back on it. We mere mortals are relegated to using consumer or pro-sumer devices for our pictures which hopefully will give some idea of what our setup looks like. It's in no way a "pissing contest" about cameras. This thread is meant to be in fun as has been stated in various places on here.


So, have a coke and a smile and just enjoy the thread.


----------



## crt nuts

You guys kill me... honestly dude, do you believe half of what you are saying (namesake). I personally don't give a rats ass about whose shot looks like this or that because I FIRST remember that my eyes are different to any one elses, SECOND, I have most likey a different monitor than most everyone else, THIRD this is a copy of a copy and FOURTH , in a rolling sequence of shots ( how movies are made) , I would most likely not be watching for shadows or glows or any one particular thing.


Then I may as well just break out the photo album.


By the way. I would like very much to know what the standard is for correct colours and who came up with that standard. As far as I've seen (my eyes), looking just oudoors on a bright sunny day, blues and greens and reds look nothing like the picturs of pictures showing on my TFT display.


I guess my TFT needs calibrating as well, but what the heck, my eyes are enjoying the view...


----------



## CaspianM

Making a big deal out of nothing!!

Screen shots are fun and one way to show your set up. In fact that is the only way on the web. Bad or good that is just the way it is.

Look at this thread.. has gotten one of the highest # of hits so leave it alone for those who enjoy it.


----------



## mp20748

A few changes here. We're now using a Moome HDMI card that has been modified by me..










*Blu Ray - Modified Moome HDMI Marquee card - CRT @ 1080P*


----------



## kypha

Wow, i think these last shots are the best yet!


I remember when you first posted the M8500 shots a couple years ago, i would say "geez, i wish i could get my 1292 to look as good as that 8500...."


Honestly, lately i'd been thinking that the 8500 screenshots were better for some reason. I seemed to remember that they had more depth, more 3-D. But as I looked back on some shots, they just aren't on the same level. And while I really do still appreciate those 8500 shots, I now find myself saying "geez, i wish i could get my G90 to look as good as that 9500...."











BTW, are you saying that not only will you offer mods for my G90, you can now modify my Moome card as well?


----------



## nashou66

Now Mike these are 1000 time better than any of the other shots you have been doing, and it looks like you did not even need to use the post processing program. If you keep posting shots like this no criticisms will be heard, only praise. Now share the mod with us all and we'll leave you alone










Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kypha* /forum/post/16923941
> 
> 
> BTW, are you saying that not only will you offer mods for my G90, you can now modify my Moome card as well?



I no longer offer mods, I prefer to just make it happen.


But both should be available sometime soon..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16924434
> 
> 
> If you keep posting shots like this no criticisms will be heard, only praise.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



You mean I'll no longer be seeing comparison shots of my worst shots compared to someones else shots that were post processed?


And no more chief shots..











Man, what have I done to deserve this!


----------



## Mr Bob

The depth on those new shots is just awesome, Mike!



b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16924529
> 
> 
> You mean I'll no longer be seeing comparison shots of my worst shots compared to someones else shots that were post processed?
> 
> 
> And no more chief shots..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, what have I done to deserve this!



Cliffs shots were not processed, nor were winduptoys, who's little PJ

just looks great. Mike i am not trying to be a smart ass with the last post but honestly if you are describing detail , even if its not resolution details in a shot that is blurry as hell your going to get some to criticize it. I only suggested you bump up the brightness earlier but i have to agree with the other criticisms. I am sure in person id see a much better pic but you cant claim we don't know what were looking for in your shots, we know, we have seen our own set ups and others. Even the master Ken Witcombe had to express his views and you jumped all over him too. you need to be able to take some criticism Mike and realize your not the only authority on this forum for CRT pj's or screen shots.


Plenty of great shots in this thread and your last ones are among the best so far, and i bet its from you going back and tweeking some more due to those criticisms, so constructive criticism is a good thing Mike, not a bad thing my fellow marquee fan.


Now go back to taking some more great screenies with that 9500LC!!!! These last one were very very nice.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16925638
> 
> 
> Cliffs shots were not processed, nor were winduptoys, who's little PJ
> 
> just looks great. Mike i am not trying to be a smart ass with the last post but honestly if you are describing detail , even if its not resolution details in a shot that is blurry as hell your going to get some to criticize it. I only suggested you bump up the brightness earlier but i have to agree with the other criticisms. I am sure in person id see a much better pic but you cant claim we don't know what were looking for in your shots, we know, we have seen our own set ups and others



I'm now convinced that you don't have a clue as to what's really going on here.




> Quote:
> Even the master Ken Witcombe had to express his views and you jumped all over him too. you need to be able to take some criticism Mike and realize your not the only authority on this forum for CRT pj's or screen shots.



When you ken and whoever else post a very low resolution image, using it as a reference for when something is correct, when the person who you're comparing your shot to has made it clear that they are NOT posting images that are ready for that comparison - it's a sad and very poor attempt to expose and degrade something that someone is doing. I know it's not something that I would do, and If so, I would also post some of the other shots in comparison that clearly blows away some of the other shots that were not that good. Come on, you guys tried very hard, but you used the wrong shot for comparison. I've made it clear I've been posting resolution shots.


And from your perspective and some others, you may honor Ken as such and bow down to him. To me, it was an insult, because i would have never posted what he posted to get a point across to him, especially when it was made clear what I was doing.




> Quote:
> Plenty of great shots in this thread and your last ones are among the best so far, and i bet its from you going back and tweeking some more due to those criticisms, so constructive criticism is a good thing Mike, not a bad thing my fellow marquee fan.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



If the criticism was a valid one, I would agree, but again, comments about geometry and using the shot of the chief was not something that I would consider valid points for criticism - neither had anything to do with performance.


Question: will you still be comparing more shots of mine from now on?


I would love to see you balance the playing field by also showing how things compare now - but I'm sure that's not going to happen. For some reason, it made more sense to point out flaws when weaknesses were made known


And lastly, go back and add up the positive comments I've gotten. And compare them to the few individuals (including yourself) with negative criticism. And then post back how many positive responses I've gotten in comparison to the very few criticisms.


Now, since you and Ken the master used Cliff's shots for THE reference for how my shots should look, considering I've made it clear that my setup was not yet finished nor near finished. And now that I'm nearer to my finish mark (6th gear), and you guys have provided the perfect reference CRT setup for me to compare my shots to, will you take the pleasure of posting the comparison shots from my setup and Cliff's, or should I do them?


Next week, I'm going to 6th gear. So why not warm up your Longbows and join in. I would hate to take criticism from someone who has such a HIGH end setup and they not want to join in on the FUN..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Question: will you still be comparing more shots of mine from now on?



Yepp










Cliffs











Your latest











look at the 5th column 3rd row from the left window shades for example, more info in Cliffs as you can see each slat of the shades disticly more clearly defined, but its because his is stacked, but on the other hand its a much larger screen than yours, 120" vs whats yours 80 something? but then again stacking two PJ adds a bit of convergence issue that could lead to a lesser than sharp image but we don't see that on Cliffs. Any how keep posting for fun this is what its about.


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud

Am I the only guy reading this thread who doesn't have a complex about something obviously not having to do with screenshots?


WTF is wrong with you guys?


Are we seriously comparing screenshots to see who's projector SET UP is better, or worse yet.....correct? I can post a shot of my daughter using the best camera in the world and I can gurantee it won't show how beauutiful she is in real life. This forum is supposed to be fun and it gets irritating seeing all these keyboard bada$$es criticizing people's shots the way they do. I get it, the thread is titled Screeshot War, but at the same time, none of these screenshots, including Cliff's, are reference for anything. Screenshot reference? Seriously?


It's not as though you all are actually talking about test pattern shots. You're talking about color and sharpness among different projectors, different screens, different lighting conditions, different brands of camera, different camera resolution, different type of camera, and different camera user skill level. I can find value in every single screenshot in this and all the other screenshot threads, but what I can't do is come in and crap on someone's efforts.


Almost all of the shots, whoever's taken them, have blown highlights, off color, and don't show all the detail available. We get it, we expect that. Calm down.


----------



## nashou66

I'm having fun !!! I love looking at all the shots taken, no pun intended







I didn't start this, I like Mikes shots just giving some constructive criticism that has been given to many others, by others, along the way from the very beginning of this thread. Kens comment on Mike geometry started Mike off on this defense kick he's been on for a while now on this thread and other threads on other forums. I like Mike, even though i don't know him personally. he is one reason I got into the Marquee PJ's and His screen shots from the past are what really hooked me on getting a marquee. I am not looking back through this thread to find them but I bet there are lots of criticisms to peoples shots here as well as praises. I dont' care what others are saying about his shots, my shots from the past of anyone else's. I just commented on his blasting of Marks opinions on his claimed great shots, its his Opinion. Sure Mike has the right to argue it and this is a Screen shot WAR for Gods sake Cliff started this for the whole Bragging right thing and I think Cliffs and Spotmatics shots are the best on this thread to date. Is it there experience with cameras? could be. Is it there superbly set up PJ's? could be. Is it the Quality of the lenses in thier cameras? Could be. Or is it my own opinion of what I SEE for my self? Bingo!!!!! thats what it is. Maybe i am a blind ole bat, but only my optometrist can tell me that for sure


----------



## nashou66

here is one of my favorites of Mikes from way back in September of 2007











Everything is just right in this shot, colors, geometry and details. look at the foliage shade variations very nice.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/16926334
> 
> 
> Am I the only guy reading this thread who doesn't have a complex about something obviously not having to do with screenshots?
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you guys?
> 
> 
> Are we seriously comparing screenshots to see who's projector SET UP is better, or worse yet.....correct? I can post a shot of my daughter using tghe best camera in the world and I can gurantee it won't show how beauutiful she is in real life. This forum is supposed to be fun and it gets irritating seeing all these keyboard bada$$es criticizing people's shots the way they do. I get it, the thread is title Screeshot War, but at the same time, none of these screenshots, including Cliff's, are reference for anything. Screenshot reference? Seriously?
> 
> 
> It's not as though you all are actually talking about test pattern shots. You're talking about color and sharpness among different projectors, different screens, different lighting conditions, different brands of camera, different camera resolution, different type of camera, and different camera user skill level. I can find value in every single screenshot in this and all the other screenshot threads, but what I can't do is come in and crap on someone's efforts.
> 
> 
> Almost all of the shots, whoever's taken them, have blown highlights, off color, and don't show all the detail available. We get it, we expect that. Calm down.



You're wasting your time here with this, because it should be the essence of what we're doing, but what the criticism is really about is my shots not being as good as Cliff's. Why such childishness - I don't know. But for those who really understand what's going on, there's no need at all for me to defend anything. I'm just having such a problem with the BS, rather than simply saying why the remarks were being made.


Here's the root of it all:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16926402
> 
> 
> I think Cliffs and Spotmatics shots are the best on this thread to date.



And why is this being bought up in the threads the way it has, when the truth is, it's all about who's the best..










Alright, let's do this..










Fire up the Longbows, stacked G90's and let's make this happen.


When the sun goes down, I'll kick things off with the first batch of shots. And then I'll post a second batch. I'll use Blu Ray DVD's that are common and I know we all have.


At this point and for the next week, I'll ask that we kick this off with the three known Top end setups (My single 9500LC - Cliff's dual G90 stack - Athanasios Dual blended Longbows).


Hmm... my single 9500LC up against two dual projector setups. Oh well, I guess I'll have to be the little David that's going up against TWO giants.


Man. I love this hobby..


----------



## mp20748

OK, here's a few shots from Baraka, that I want to use in the first batch. We'll start out with these shots, and sometime later today, I'll put up several more shots. The shots that are posted, would have to be matched and posted for comparison..


I declare WAR!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/16925503
> 
> 
> The depth on those new shots is just awesome, Mike!
> 
> 
> b



Thanks Bob!


It's going to get a lot better now that we've finally kicked this Screen-shot war off.


Oh, I must also say how amazed I am of the many positive comments I've been getting from my shots since I've started things back up. I'm only wondering if somehow others are not able to see the comments, or maybe not able to see the shots all together, because it's puzzling that you guys keep saying positive things about the shots. And that you're also able to appreciate what I'm trying to show in the shots.


Things like depth, dimensionality, dynamics range and range and depth of colors have been my goal, and you guys have been giving me my props...


Thanks!!! I have much more coming..


----------



## nashou66

Only one longbow can be used my one c2-2250 is at Tv-one being repaired . Ok start the , yeah yeah what evers. However i did just get in a set of RGBHV cables and the DVI breakouts so I can compare the old moome card to just plain out RGBHV's.


But the point is Mike look at the old Shot I posted above, to me its a better shot than any of your new shots with exemption to the latest batch. Take a screenie of that shot now and compare it to your own old shot . I am curious as how your own two shots compare.


Just saying you lost something along the way and hope you find it again.


And if your going to post this BS:



> Quote:
> Here's the root of it all:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by nashou66
> 
> I think Cliffs and Spotmatics shots are the best on this thread to date.



post the rest of what I said,



> Quote:
> I think Cliffs and Spotmatics shots are the best on this thread to date. *Is it there experience with cameras? could be. Is it there superbly set up PJ's? could be. Is it the Quality of the lenses in thier cameras? Could be. Or is it my own opinion of what I SEE for my self?*



So if it is *my own* Opinion Mike it shouldnt bother you cause according to your OPINION i don't know what I am talking about or know what I should be seeing with my own eyes. Mike I don't want to argue with you any longer , its one of the nicest days we had here in Buffalo and I'm going out to enjoy it and do some yard work that the rains have held up.


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Now see those last shots are what i am talking about much better than the one we were criticizing and I probably could not compare to those at this time an date but when i have my set up mounted and ready to go I'll go out and buy that BD and we can compare. But those new shots are nice. and I am not trying to patronize you just stating what I see with My OWN EYES.










Nashou


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16926598
> 
> 
> its one of the nicest days we had here in Buffalo and I'm going out to enjoy it and do some yard work that the rains have held up.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



OK, but get back in time to join in... And I promise, I'll not be critical about geometry and other minor issues you may be having with your setup..











Little David will be ready for the first round of shots....... I'm not shooting over any ones heads, and I'm not taking prisoners..


----------



## nashou66

lol little davie, i think that be me cause i am not Goliath. just a guy who loves to watch movies on a CRT.


I honestly cant wait to get my Tv-One unit back( broke the toggle joystick) now that i just was delivered these BlueJeans belden RGBHV cables. It is definitely a challenge to blend two PJ with no blend zone but I want to try Gino's method of matching each horizontal grey bar with only one color on at a time on both Pj's. and the Align software you told me about is definitely the biggest help for matching the blend zone convergence.

ok off to the yard work!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16926402
> 
> 
> I'm having fun !!! I love looking at all the shots taken, no pun intended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't start this, I like Mikes shots just giving some constructive criticism that has been given to many others, by others, along the way from the very beginning of this thread. Kens comment on Mike geometry started Mike off on this defense kick he's been on for a while now on this thread and other threads on other forums. I like Mike, even though i don't know him personally. he is one reason I got into the Marquee PJ's and His screen shots from the past are what really hooked me on getting a marquee. I am not looking back through this thread to find them but I bet there are lots of criticisms to peoples shots here as well as praises. I dont' care what others are saying about his shots, my shots from the past of anyone else's. I just commented on his blasting of Marks opinions on his claimed great shots, its his Opinion. Sure Mike has the right to argue it and this is a Screen shot WAR for Gods sake Cliff started this for the whole Bragging right thing and I think Cliffs and Spotmatics shots are the best on this thread to date. Is it there experience with cameras? could be. Is it there superbly set up PJ's? could be. Is it the Quality of the lenses in thier cameras? Could be. Or is it my own opinion of what I SEE for my self? Bingo!!!!! thats what it is. Maybe i am a blind ole bat, but only my optometrist can tell me that for sure



Maybe I'm all worked up for nothing. Maybe it's becasue it's Saturday and I'm at work.







I've enjoyed your contributions to this and other threads immensely.


----------



## mp20748

A few really dark ones...

*1080P into Moome - Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## kypha

Cool! you actually reposted one of my favorite MP images, the one with the Sailors in back of the truck, and it looks better than ever....


These are among my fav's from the M8500 shots, my favorite is the pic with the broken bridge, because to me it looks like a miniature prop set











Keep 'em coming!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kypha* /forum/post/16930874
> 
> 
> 
> Keep 'em coming!



I'm already working on the next batch..


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into CRT via Moome HDMI card*


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16923699
> 
> 
> A few changes here. We're now using a Moome HDMI card that has been modified by me..



Why the change from the Fury? Is it the Moome 1.3 version?


----------



## winduptoy

I sure wouldn't mind if Bob (Citation4444) or Gary weighed in on this. They posted some sweet looking stuff a few pages back.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/16933095
> 
> 
> Why the change from the Fury? Is it the Moome 1.3 version?



It's the Moome 1.3 or whatever his latest Marquee card is.


I did well with the FuryII, but this modified Moome card that I have here is a whole new level of performance.


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/16933485
> 
> 
> It's the Moome 1.3 or whatever his latest Marquee card is.
> 
> 
> I did well with the FuryII, but this modified Moome card that I have here is a whole new level of performance.



Mike Ive always used the F2 with no complaints. I recently tried the Moome 1.3 card and was surprised to see the difference. It was sharper & it pops off the screen. Not sure what magic moome has applied but it sure took the image up a notch. I can imagine this with your mods.


----------



## noki123

I am really impressed awesome result Screen Shots were amazing by Mp. Moome Hdmi card had impressive results......


----------



## mp20748

Got the gain set right on the card, but now needs to figure out what to do on the camera to bring the exposure up. Not much you can do with cheap PS cameras.

*Blu Ray 1080P into modified Moome/Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## nashou66

Looks better Mike, I know you don't like to use Gamma but give it a shot with Moomes card. Just a few clicks up on the remote is all you need.


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16939863
> 
> 
> Looks better Mike, I know you don't like to use Gamma but give it a shot with Moomes card. Just a few clicks up on the remote is all you need.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



All black information are there in his shots. It is the camera. He needs to use the shadow detail control in post process or use a different in camera picture profile.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16941105
> 
> 
> All black information are there in his shots. It is the camera. He needs to use the shadow detail control in post process or use a different in camera picture profile.




Check me if I'm wrong but I thought the reason for these shots was to compare projectors. It's bad enough that there are cameras and monitors between the image we see here the original image projected let alone if we are doing things other than cropping.


Art


----------



## mp20748

Yep, it's the camera for sure. It looks perfect on the screen. That's why I mentioned the camera and exposure for these shots.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16941740
> 
> 
> Check me if I'm wrong but I thought the reason for these shots was to compare projectors. It's bad enough that there are cameras and monitors between the image we see here the original image projected let alone if we are doing things other than cropping.
> 
> 
> Art



Before:











After










I agree that we really should not alter the shots for better but correcting camera output black crush and saturation to "match the screen" are harmless imo.









If crush is there then the screenshot cannot reproduce what is not there.


He might need gamma correction (if not there yet) in his chain as I do not know any CRT that can do without.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16941740
> 
> 
> Check me if I'm wrong but I thought the reason for these shots was to compare projectors. It's bad enough that there are cameras and monitors between the image we see here the original image projected let alone if we are doing things other than cropping.
> 
> 
> Art



I don't think we can compare projectors based on screenshots. If anything it's more a comparison of cameras and screenshot taking ability. More fun than anything else for me.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

But I could make my 6000:1 look like your 100,000:1 with photoshop, so then why post screen shots ?


Art


----------



## nashou66

Mike I remember last time you found a Night setting on your Point and shoot camera. Its a Fuji right? I have the F10 I think and it has a night mode, the symbol is a crescent moon.

it usually does about a 1-2 second exposure to capture all the info. I have found it is the closest to what's on the screen. A bit more exposure would capture it all but its close enough.


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16942448
> 
> 
> But I could make my 6000:1 look like your 100,000:1 with photoshop, so then why post screen shots ?
> 
> 
> Art



Cause we love em'!


----------



## CaspianM

We ought to try to post shots that are representative of our screen images as closely as possible. I see shots in digital forums that are overly sharpened beyond what they should look. Sharpness is the most abused feature of post processing in digital camera useage. Posters need to be a fair judge.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16942667
> 
> 
> We ought to try to post shots are representative of our screen images as closely as possible. I see shots in digital forums that are overly sharpened beyond what it should look. Sharpness is the most abused feature of post processing in digital camera useage. Posters need to be a fair judge.



I match my sharpness during RAW conversion in Photopro to match the full size image on my screen, not the scaled version. This ends up being sharpness 1 out of 2. Sharpness 0 still looks more detailed than the scaled paused video next to my photo on the screen. My Digital SLR captures each pixel independently and does not add post processing. That is why it is considered very good for it's use in RAW mode. A camera sees the screen and it says what's this we need to correct this!!??







It still may look the way it should on the screen but the camera doesn't always know the difference. My camera uses a FOVEON X3 Direct Image Sensor (CMOS).


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16942667
> 
> 
> We ought to try to post shots are representative of our screen images as closely as possible. I see shots in digital forums that are overly sharpened beyond what it should look. Sharpness is the most abused feature of post processing in digital camera useage. Posters need to be a fair judge.



Sharpened beyond what it should look like is an understatement for some of those pics.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/16943438
> 
> 
> I match my sharpness during RAW conversion in Photopro to match the full size image on my screen, not the scaled version. This ends up being sharpness 1 out of 2. Sharpness 0 still looks more detailed than the scaled paused video next to my photo on the screen. My Digital SLR captures each pixel independently and does not add post processing. That is why it is considered very good for it's use in RAW mode. A camera sees the screen and it says what's this we need to correct this!!??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It still may look the way it should on the screen but the camera doesn't always know the difference. My camera uses a FOVEON X3 Direct Image Sensor (CMOS).



This is one of your shots:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/16920539
> 
> 
> BenQ W5000 - HTPC - Sigma DP2 - 106" High Power screen (2.8 gain)
> 
> The International blu-ray













You don't think it is over sharpened?


----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16944244
> 
> 
> This is one of your shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think it is over sharpened?



Not sure as I find it difficult to make out sharp versus not sharp on my modest DLP High Power combo setup. Sharpness isn't something very prevalent on my high gain screen. If someone tells me it is too sharp I will have to take their word for it. My other photos that are not screenshots with sharpness 1 do not look as sharp as that movie did. The DVD looked very similar with regards to sharpness.


----------



## CaspianM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/16944593
> 
> 
> Not sure as I find it difficult to make out sharp versus not sharp on my modest DLP High Power combo setup. Sharpness isn't something very prevalent on my high gain screen. If someone tells me it is too sharp I will have to take their word for it. My other photos that are not screenshots with sharpness 1 do not look as sharp as that movie did. The DVD looked very similar with regards to sharpness.



Basic sharpness rule is to avoid edge ringing/whitening.

I do 100% crop and watch the edges once I start seeing the ring devoloping I stop and go back a bit. I can even see the ringing in your shot on his hair in back of his head. Unless the PJ's sharpness set too high.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16944749
> 
> 
> Basic sharpness rule is to avoid edge ringing/whitening.
> 
> I do 100% crop and watch the edges once I start seeing the ring devoloping I stop and go back a bit. I can even see the ringing in your shot on his hair in back of his head. Unless the PJ's sharpness set too high.



The ringing around his hair was a result of having to reduce contrast less than usual in order to keep his hair black. This brought out some ringing type of an effect when I applied highlight recovery but I thought I might have gone unnoticed. I was more worried about getting the brightness in the background as bright as possible which actually ended up crushing the highlights a bit. Since it looked like the background was loosing detail in the building anyways I ignored it. That was my second attempt at blu-ray screenshots so I'm still learning what works best however the ringing is probbobly a result of the automatic aperture setting in the camera. I will look out for this better in the future. I didn't think anyone would notice.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## SteveMo

Here are two screenshots of a Photo I took then converted to 16bit tif format using sharpness 1 for both the photo and screenshots. I cropped and resized them in photoshop but no post proccessing was done other than from the settings that had been told to be used by the camera. It is a different calibration but sharpness on the projector is still 3 out of 8. What am I doing wrong? The 2 chip visibility caused by the camera is normal.


----------



## CaspianM

I am not a pp expert but believe the sharpening is best applied after resizing.

It looks so much better. No stick figure look. The second one is the 100% crop I believe.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## dropzone7









Art bringing out the big guns!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Pinot noir will do that to you.










Art


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16944488



I have never seen nor heard of this movie with the exception of your screenshots a while back Art. Black Narcissus right? It looks just freaky enough that I think I will watch it!


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/16947589
> 
> 
> I have never seen nor heard of this movie with the exception of your screenshots a while back Art. Black Narcissus right? It looks just freaky enough that I think I will watch it!



Yes, an interesting movie but not a great one. So often I will watch a movie and enjoy it but would not recommend it to others. There are a few scenes with images that are astounding under any circumstances but even more so based on the film's 60 year age.


Art


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/16946401
> 
> 
> I am not a pp expert but believe the sharpening is best applied after resizing.
> 
> It looks so much better. No stick figure look. The second one is the 100% crop I believe.



The second photo is an area I zoomed in at in the Windows image viewer of the same photo. The zoom is around the distance that I remember focusing for. The camera uses the same focal length as a film camera and if you have ever tried adding sharpness to a scanned and resized photo, you understand what that is like. I have not done much in photoshop with sharpening yet because it will erase my cameras data on the file. It does however give some slightly better looking results than the pp sharpening.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## atlemusic

MP >> Now we talking! look's awesome!


----------



## mp20748

*Blu Ray 1080P - Moome VIMHD - CRT*


----------



## mp20748

Trying to go after some of the more complex shots to capture. I know this is going to be difficult when using an inexpensive PS camera, but I like trying to convey what I'm seeing on the screen.


Projector not warmed up fully, so there's some convergence issues.


*Blu Ray 1080P - Moome FullHD - Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## Mr Bob

Can't let Mike have ALL the fun...











Screenshots from a freshly calibrated Pioneer Elite 720 CRT owned by a dentist in Seattle:


----------



## mp20748

Had to fix a few things on the setup last night. My red static focus wire came loose on the focus coil, that plus the glue neck board lost a bit of gain. I actually noticed the blue problem in the previously posted shots. The static focus problem was also in the previous shots, but I only noticed it after dealing with the blue problem.


I'll try the gamma thing later when the remote arrives. For now I took a few more shots from Barraka to see how well things look after the few changes:

*Blu Ray 1080P into Moome FullHD displayed on my lowly 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Hi Mike, I can see in these last shots what you mean about the Moome and the white setting. Here you can tell you got all the subtle variations in the whites with out clipping them. Now once you use the Gamma for the low end it will look sweet!!! But I am not sure how Moomes Gamma affects the high end, hopefully it slopes off at 30-40 IRE. But the colors on these last shots are nice. Once the gamma adresses the shadow details I think you'll be done tweeking.


Athanasios


----------



## crt nuts

Hey Mike


First let me say without a shadow of a doubt those pics blow mine and most other folks here away







. Now for the critique... do you also see the slight blue push on the left 1/6 of the image, or is it just me.










Mark G


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/16980030
> 
> 
> Now once you use the Gamma for the low end it will look sweet!!! But I am not sure how Moomes Gamma affects the high end, hopefully it slopes off at 30-40 IRE. But the colors on these last shots are nice. Once the gamma adresses the shadow details I think you'll be done tweeking.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I'm sure I've mentioned it several times in this thread, that I'm not seeing the problem on the screen, only in these shots. So it must be the camera. And there's no adjustment that I know of in the camera to correct this.


I also notice in a picture you posted in another thread, where I'm seeing the same thing in your shot:


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crt nuts* /forum/post/16983698
> 
> 
> Hey Mike
> 
> 
> First let me say without a shadow of a doubt those pics blow mine and most other folks here away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Now for the critique... do you also see the slight blue push on the left 1/6 of the image, or is it just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark G



That blue push I'm not sure where it's coming from. I looked at the screen a little while ago and did not notice it.


I took a few more shots using a different camera. let's see if it's theree in these shots:

*A different camera with everything else the same*


----------



## nashou66

Yepp that shot has no Gamma, i removed the cards and its not via my lumagen which has the 11 point gamma. That shot was like after a 15 minute set up the day after I got the PJ's into the basement. Haven't taken any shots since. I, Like you mike, hate the Point and shoot cameras. I am waiting to save some cash for a Canon XSi.


I think I remember in one post you found the "night" mode... those modes usually allow for a longer exposure time so it has more time to capture what your eyes see. what model is your again? A fuji Right?

And for what its worth, i WAS complimenting these last few batches of pics Mike.










Athanasios


----------



## PeriSoft

At the very least, long exposure times will let you stop the lens down, which makes things sharper, and let you use a lower ISO, which reduces noise - and if your camera post-processes to get rid of high-ISO noise, you might as well put a blur filter on.


Of course, when you post images 1000 pixels wide, you could be taking screenshots of an ECP 3000 and it wouldn't make any damn difference. This shot:











...looks sharp as a tack, and it's 20% bigger than any that usually get posted here. But my PJ as set up there can only barely resolve 1080i72 - on the green tube. The red and blue are lucky to be resolving 2/3rds of that, and that's in the center; the optical focus is absolutely awful.


Judging high frequency capability using downsampled screenshots is folly.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16984896
> 
> 
> 
> Judging high frequency capability using downsampled screenshots is folly.



I disagree. I don't do anything with my shots but crop and resize.


It's just as sharp in person. Trust me.











When you see film grain, well, that says it all.


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16985133
> 
> 
> I disagree. I don't do anything with my shots but crop and resize.



Resizing IS downsampling. You're reducing the high frequency content of the image when you take a 1920-wide image (or a 3200-wide photo of a 1920-wide image) and scale it down to 1000 pixels wide. There's no way around it. Imagine the shot downsampled (resized) to 200 pixels wide - there's no way you could reasonably claim you could tell whether one 200 pixel wide screenshot represents a better depiction of HD than another. And it's equally true of a 1000 pixel wide shot. You're throwing out 3/4 of the information in the image!



> Quote:
> It's just as sharp in person. Trust me.



I'm not saying it's not sharp in person. I'm saying there's no way to judge how sharp it is from the screenshot.


Here's a little test for you: Take that screenshot, resize it to 1920x1080, and project it on your screen.


Doesn't look quite so sharp now, does it? Then how can you use that exact same data to prove the sharpness of the original image?


You can't. It's not physically possible.


Unless you post shots at least 1920 pixels wide (and then, if you want to get pedantic, because you're sampling digitally you need something over nyquist, not just the same resolution) all you're proving is that your projector is sharp at 500p.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/16985204
> 
> 
> Resizing IS downsampling..




I understand the resize point but I'm trying to get the point across that NOTHING other than that is done to my shots. It's the raw deal.


I say we start a new thread with original shots at 1080P.


Sound good?


Cliff


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/16985302
> 
> 
> I understand the resize point but I'm trying to get the point across that NOTHING other than that is done to my shots. It's the raw deal.



Likewise, of course. But even resizing can affect sharpness depending on how it's done. And in-camera settings affect sharpness a great deal - almost all point-and-shoots will massage sharpness, sometimes without any option to turn it off, and even DSLRs have settings for it. I could crank my D80 up to "ubersharp" and have output that looked very sharp without 'doing anything' to the pictures at all.




> Quote:
> I say we start a new thread with original shots at 1080P.
> 
> 
> Sound good?



I think that's a great idea. I'd really like to see how peoples' shots look when standardized to a size that lets you see a good deal of the sharpness. As I pointed out before, it still won't let you see all the high frequency content - consider how difficult it would be to discern 1-on-1-off patterns with a photo of the screen resized to 1-pixel-per-pixel - but it's a hell of a lot better than 1000-pixel wide images. Bring it on!


...what's funny is that I'm saying this when I can make my shots look like my PJ is almost as good as yours as long as I keep the size down! 1920-wide pics are gonna kick my ass!


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

PeriSoft I am glad you brought this up as it is indeed a bit funny to see people claiming they are not doing anything to their images. When I do my resizing I try to make sure it is close to what I am seeing but that of course means it is hardly a perfect method.

The fact, like you said, is that resizing is a BIG thing and makes a TON of difference.

Not only that, unless you are shooting RAW, your P&S camera is applying lots of processing to the image already so you combine that to the resizing and you get something that hardly is "untouched".

I agree with that idea on full size images.


----------



## Mr Bob

I know a CRT RPTV can't compete with ceiling pjs, but thought I'd resize my Seattle dentist's 64" Elite 720 CRT RPTV just one size down from what I sent in before, as per Image Shack's way of doing it. I believe Image Shack is what you use, right Mike? Otherwise these shots are untouched, straight from the cam to my computer's Pictures file and up to Image Shack. No pre or post processing, and no cropping. What you see is what you get.


I took these at my cam's 3.1 MP setting, hoping I was jamming more pixels in per square inch, but am not sure Image Shack increases res in the downsizing process, or just throws away surplus pixels. Seems my shots taken at 1.2 MP camera setting are the same chrispness as these, once appearing here as a screenshot.


Should I even bother using my 3.1 - or higher - MP settings at my cam? Or just stick with 1.2 and not have to resize them down quite as much via Image Shack?



b


----------



## mp20748

Downsized by Photobucket, with only saturation lowered - that's it!

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## mp20748

Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm now using a different camera. And that I'll be taking things to the 6th level (6th gear) soon, so I'm learning the camera with some familiar and non familiar shots.


resized in photobucket - saturation decreased

*Blu Ray 1080P into CRT*


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:



This shot rocks Mike I have vertigo on that one!!! Awesome!!!!


Now see a little criticism got you to put on your game face!! this is the type of shots that got me excited about getting into CRT!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

*PURE 1080P into CRT*


----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## mp20748

I'll also try a few B/W shots...

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## nashou66

Nice Mike!! Do you have Casablanca?


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17023555
> 
> 
> Nice Mike!! Do you have Casablanca?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



No, and this is my first stab at taking B/W. But I can see Casablanca on this setup in the near future..


----------



## nashou66

This is an old Pic from my Marquee 8000 when I first got it set up over three years ago, the first time i used HDMI input card also.











Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

I really like the old B/W classics. Those shots are from the second disk in the "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Blu Ray case. I like the way it looks on my setup..










Now back to full color... at least until I can get a few more classics.


All shots un-touched - only re-sized in the Bucket!

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## CaspianM

Gregory Peck..what film is it? Nice shots.


----------



## nashou66

Ok have been messing around some more with Rodan-O-Blend







I still have the magnetics to work on and have not touched Schleimflug at all. Also I still have to color/grayscale match both Pj's. On some shots you'll see the Blend Zone but it is a bit more visible in person, opposite from the last time where the pics revealed it more.


Using a _Fiji FinePix F10_ set to Night mode which allows long exposers

it figures out automatically.


These are from DVE and the New Spears & whatchamacalit disc




























On some of these you'll see the blend Zone, this is the Spears disc:


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/17026843
> 
> 
> Gregory Peck..what film is it? Nice shots.


_Boys from Brazil_

Art


----------



## CaspianM

Thanks Art.

Athanasios these shots are nice. Very smooth and detailed. I like them.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17027227
> 
> 
> these are from dve and the new spears & whatchamacalit disc



very good!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/17028184
> 
> 
> Thanks Art.
> 
> Athanasios these shots are nice. Very smooth and detailed. I like them.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17028599
> 
> 
> very good!



Thanks Guys, still lots of work to do but I am getting better at it, practice makes perfect.


Athanasios


----------



## winduptoy

Athanasios;


Those look really good! Clear skies are notorious for revealing differences in brightness. Can't wait to see more!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

I loved Hitman but i have to say the transfer was not that great, Too bad too since there could be some great scenes in there for screen shots like this one







From an old batch of pics from a single Marquee 8500.











Nashou


----------



## Art Sonneborn




----------



## winduptoy

Nice, Art!


The BR of '2001' is a humungus improvement over any previous release. Finally I got to watch it again in its original aspect ratio. Now if they could only do the same with 'Apocalypse Now' and include 'Hearts of Darkness' on a second disc...


----------



## mp20748

The following shots are from a HD Sampler Blu Ray. I moved the zoom on the camera one notch forward and forgot to set it back to wide, so they look 4:3

*1080P into My CRT*


----------



## mp20748

These were partially not zoomed:


----------



## mp20748

More partially zoomed. And I'm also showing the convergence being out in the lower left corner:


----------



## mp20748

more:


----------



## mp20748

More 1080P into CRT...


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17035654
> 
> 
> Nice, Art!
> 
> 
> The BR of '2001' is a humungus improvement over any previous release. Finally I got to watch it again in its original aspect ratio. Now if they could only do the same with 'Apocalypse Now' and include 'Hearts of Darkness' on a second disc...



I believe 2001 could still be way better but it looks spectacular none the less. I saw this as a 12 year old with my family I remember being awed and confused.










Art


----------



## PeriSoft




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/17043574
> 
> 
> I believe 2001 could still be way better but it looks spectacular none the less. I say this as a 12 year old with my family I remember being awed and confused.



I watched 2001 as a 20-year-old (not in theaters







) and was still confused!


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Mike Maybe we can move this conversation over the the Tv-One Blend thread since it could be used as a general blend thread also, I might try to move most of our conversations there .


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

More 1080P into my CRT...


----------



## Webmonkey

People continue to amaze me with their CRTs. I still have my beloved 808.


----------



## nashou66

Hi Mike the posts have been moved to the TV-One blend thread, they originaly stated here with my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17038105 



I am going to post over there some questions so go have a looksie.


And thanks for your help so far.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo

Don't you ever get bored mike?


----------



## SteveMo

Mike anything that is a new release. Really I am almost to the point of expecting to wake up tomorrow with more Baraka pics. Please mix it up some more!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/17051220
> 
> 
> Don't you ever get bored mike?



Not sure, but at times when I might be bored, I have so many things to do. And one of them is my obsession with tweaking an analog video chain. I keep saying I'm done....and somehow I got the scope fired up again looking at signals..










But it does feel good when I've made some improvements or have made a difference. Because I still need to put this setup into 6th gear..


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17052243
> 
> 
> Not sure, but at times when I might be bored, I have so many things to do. And one of them is my obsession with tweaking an analog video chain. I keep saying I'm done....and somehow I got the scope fired up again looking at signals..



I thought half the fun of tweaking was the time when we are not. One important thing IMO is how movies (whatever medium) today translate on our setups.



> Quote:
> But it does feel good when I've made some improvements or have made a difference. Because I still need to put this setup into 6th gear..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/17053908
> 
> *I thought half the fun of tweaking was the time when we are not*. One important thing IMO is how movies (whatever medium) today translate on our setups.



You're right. I need to pay more attention to finishing my HT and less energy on screenshots. Maybe then I'll know what it's like to not tweak.


another quickie:

*Pure 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## nashou66

Did some more work on the blend, here is a single shot, i like this scene fot all the details in the background and subtle shades of all the colors, this in person looks great.

Still having some issues in the blend zone when things move across it, another complete reset is in store.











nashou


----------



## winduptoy

DUDE!!!!


That blend setup is looking goooood!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17061244
> 
> 
> DUDE!!!!
> 
> 
> That blend setup is looking goooood!



With still shots yes it is looking good, but it still has some issues, I realized right after I took that screen shot earlier today, that last night, when I redid the set up from scratch with the source feeding it I had some size adjustments in the blend units I was messing with before the initialization to get things to fit. So that might be( I HOPE) the heat wave affect I am seeing in the blend zone as things pass through it or as the PJ pans across.


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Here is the best results I got so far, this time in the C2-2250 I used the 1:1 pixel mapping in the source menu and no Zooming, it seams this does it for you automatically according to your output resolution, very cool indeed. I have not tried it with other resolutions just the 1063x800 to each Pj, I ended up with a 207 pixel blend zone.










































































Still More work to do but I am learning a lot, thanks to Mike Parker and Bob Stephan for there help with all this, And Gino too for the color Matching Idea.


Athanasios


----------



## Mark_A_W

Ok, I gotta ask Athan...


What's the cheapest way to blend properly now?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/17071019
> 
> 
> Ok, I gotta ask Athan...
> 
> 
> What's the cheapest way to blend properly now?



it was and always will be with Tv-One products. The new dedicated edge Blender the C2-4250 will be out in september, it will still be just over 3k for two but still not that bad compared to the 13k blendzilla (cheaper if you find it used). But I like this 1:1 pixel mapping not sure if it was my work on the linearity or the 1:1 but all the motion heat wave effect is gone and the pans are nice and smooth, I might try 96 hz with those same res numbers.


Athanasios


----------



## CaspianM

Looks like a winner from screenshots. Make me think to find another XG.


----------



## mp20748

I've been spending a little more time than usual with some other things over the past few weeks, so I've not had time to post any shots lately.


Sometime later this week, I'll be back. And when that happens, hopefully I'll be in 6th gear..










Yep, I've already started making the necessary changes..


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17070979
> 
> 
> Here is the best results I got so far, this time in the C2-2250 I used the 1:1 pixel mapping in the source menu and no Zooming, it seams this does it for you automatically according to your output resolution, very cool indeed. I have not tried it with other resolutions just the 1063x800 to each Pj, I ended up with a 207 pixel blend zone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still More work to do but I am learning a lot, thanks to Mike Parker and Bob Stephan for there help with all this, And Gino too for the color Matching Idea.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



That is awesome! Nice to see your screenshots again. I'll try posting some few shots maybe 1 or 2 screenshots later from my humble 1272. 


What's the best CRT projector I can get if my budget is $800 max?


----------



## mp20748

We're now in 6th gear...


Well, the very first stage of 6th gear. We have a lot of setup to do, but I thought I would post a few as we go along. I'll need a few more spare days.



Gladiator - edge enhancement is the flaw of this Blu Ray

*Pure 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## mp20748

More...


----------



## mp20748

more...


----------



## overclkr

The Reverend of Raster's Samsung SP-800B


----------



## mp20748




----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

From Sony VPH-1272q entry level CRT projector with more than 6000+ hours.


----------



## imprez25

v1rtu0s1ty- Good to see you posting again! Your shots look great, especially for one of those junky 1272's!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imprez25* /forum/post/17128962
> 
> 
> v1rtu0s1ty- Good to see you posting again! Your shots look great, especially for one of those junky 1272's!



Uh huh! It still rocks! Hehehe!


----------



## mp20748

More Gladiator 1080P:


----------



## mp20748

Still working at it...

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## mp20748

more...


Un-touched, with only resizing done in the bucket.

*1080P into my CRT*


----------



## mp20748

A little mixture as I go along...

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## vermin2dcafe






























Marquee 8000 even with the old Neckboards.


----------



## Paul Butler

Vermin2dcafe - very nice screenshots. Looks like you have a 'scope screen as well!


What camera are you using?


----------



## rbs-LG

Awesome screens Man...... I will post mine soon too here.


----------



## plain fan

I'm surprised that no shots of Braveheart have shown up and as always Mike sets the bar that I wish I could see from my lowly position.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17165473
> 
> 
> A little mixture as I go along...



MUCH better....


----------



## mp20748

100% un-touched with a little GAMMA now added.

*1080P into my CRT (Moome FullHD / Marquee 9500LC Ultra)*


----------



## mp20748

Not the best in transfers


----------



## winduptoy

Mike;


Your latest screens are a much better indication of what that machine of yours will do. Glad to see you using the Moome card, it has made a huge difference! BTW your camera work is improving. Really want to make one of these meets someday. Unfortunately, I'm a long way from the action and harvest time is coming up.


----------



## nashou66

Some work needs to be done on the massive banding and the ringing on the left side, Man I hate the Ringing problem!!! That is one thing I wish TSE could fix along with banding on the Marquee.



























Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Had a chance finally do Lights Camera Girls on BluRay, thanks to Superleo! He custom burned a disc playable in 1080i straightaway without any upconversion on my Panny BDP - along with another one playable on HD DVD! - so I was able to get a shot of Owen's classic from there. No HD Fury II involved on this shot, it's strictly component to component, nothing in between and no upconversions - 1080i straight from the disc and out, from the Panny BDP.


Leo has been working on this project for months,







with lots of hard work and many failures to launch along the way, and I just can't thank him enough!











This is the kind we can put up here. The rest of the disc is just sizzling on other levels, with many other girls, where I just might post on Curt's site instead for some of those...











Enjoy -


b


----------



## Prehjan

MP

























...you seem to have "nailed" down that gamma curve closer that I have seen so far judging from that third and fifth pics of Apocalypto!


Now if I could only get my M9000 to that level of performance: I promise not to mess with its settings for a week or so! (hehe!)


Great results

























Martin


----------



## plain fan

I'm heading over to Curt's site...


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/17234521
> 
> 
> I'm heading over to Curt's site...



I've been lurking over there and I can not seem to find where screen shots are, some guidance will be appreciated.


I'll try to post some shots over there worth the trouble ...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17229545
> 
> 
> Mike;
> 
> 
> Your latest screens are a much better indication of what that machine of yours will do. Glad to see you using the Moome card, it has made a huge difference! BTW your camera work is improving. Really want to make one of these meets someday. Unfortunately, I'm a long way from the action and harvest time is coming up.



Thanks dude!


Sometime either on this page or the previous one, I put the projector in the "6th gear" I had been talking about. That required several changes and though things are much better, it's still not there yet. I have a lot more to do, but not the time to do it. And I really do appreciate your feedback..


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superleo* /forum/post/17234821
> 
> 
> I've been lurking over there and I can not seem to find where screen shots are, some guidance will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> I'll try to post some shots over there worth the trouble ...



I just posted a few over there, so you should be able to find it now. It hadn't been active previously since early in the summer.


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/17230765
> 
> 
> Had a chance finally do Lights Camera Girls on BluRay, thanks to Superleo! He custom burned a disc playable in 1080i straightaway without any upconversion on my Panny BDP - along with another one playable on HD DVD! - so I was able to get a shot of Owen's classic from there. No HD Fury II involved on this shot, it's strictly component to component, nothing in between and no upconversions - 1080i straight from the disc and out, from the Panny BDP.
> 
> 
> Leo has been working on this project for months,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with lots of hard work and many failures to launch along the way, and I just can't thank him enough!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind we can put up here. The rest of the disc is just sizzling on other levels, with many other girls, where I just might post on Curt's site instead for some of those...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy -
> 
> 
> b




Bob!!! That just smokes! Color me floored!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17236333
> 
> 
> Bob!!! That just smokes! Color me floored!


----------



## Mr Bob

Mike, you were right, I have been running my Color sat too high. That shot of Colleen one page back is with my User Color sat reduced by 5 clicks, from midpoint of 31 down to 26 instead. Will be remedying that in sm soon, so I can keep my User sat at midpoint again and still capture the same fidelity -












b


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/17230765
> 
> 
> Had a chance finally do Lights Camera Girls on BluRay...
> 
> 
> This is the kind we can put up here. The rest of the disc is just sizzling on other levels, with many other girls, where I just might post on Curt's site instead for some of those...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy -
> 
> 
> b



Just posted some screen shots there... not as good as Bob's but hopefully he'll be adding some of his.


----------



## mp20748

A few more as I go along.


Totally un-touched!

*1080P into my CRT*


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17258527
> 
> 
> A few more as I go along.
> 
> 
> Totally un-touched!
> 
> *1080P into my CRT*



I like this!











> Quote:



and this one as well!


----------



## mp20748

*1080P*


----------



## VPH-G90

My first screen from france

Material:

- 5 mega camera Canon PowerShot A610

- Video projector Tritube sony G90

- Source Toshiba HD DVD XE1

- Video Processor CrystalioII

- Screen ... chage being projected on the wall

- Film King Kong HD DVD 1920x817p 72 Hz projection 2.35


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17311915
> 
> 
> My first screen from france
> 
> Material:
> 
> - 5 mega camera Canon PowerShot A610
> 
> - Video projector Tritube sony G90
> 
> - Source Toshiba HD DVD XE1
> 
> - Video Processor CrystalioII
> 
> - Screen ... chage being projected on the wall
> 
> - Film King Kong HD DVD 1920x817p 72 Hz projection 2.35



Nice, I love using 800/817p with CRT, looks great !!


Athanasios


----------



## nzryan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17262863
> 
> *1080P*



awsome Mike!... ah if only we could get somethin done with the XG's..., but not to worry - love that 1:1 on/off part!! is that 72hz?


----------



## ElTopo

   [/quote]




WOW the image depth just amazing !!!!


----------



## overclkr

Been a little while for me.


















































































Cliff


----------



## nashou66

Nice Cliff, I forgot how nice and how well ken can tweak those G90's!!! Wish i could have made the meet and been in Buffalo next Wednesday !!!


Nashou


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17329108
> 
> 
> Nice Cliff, I forgot how nice and how well ken can tweak those G90's!!! Wish i could have made the meet and been in Buffalo next Wednesday !!!
> 
> 
> Nashou



Don't sweat it bro.










Have a great time at the concert and TAKE PICS!!!!!










Cliffy


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90

screen vs grab


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## Mr Bob

Shot in daytime with blinds drawn, not in total darkness, so blacks not fully black. Had no other time right now...


----------



## ElTopo

@VPH-G90: On what screen width are you projecting ?


ElTopo


----------



## VPH-G90

hello I project my image

on a base of 3 meters


----------



## mp20748

A few now, with a few more after I change to the other camera...


*1080*


----------



## mp20748

A few more @ 1080P


----------



## VPH-G90

Hi Mike, can you make a screen of this scene to compare with the grab


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17334531
> 
> 
> Hi Mike, can you make a screen of this scene to compare with the grab




I'll give it a try later today.


----------



## overclkr

Some seriously wicked screenshots on this page. It's getting HOT IN HERE!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17334531
> 
> 
> Hi Mike, can you make a screen of this scene to compare with the grab



That image, or any other image like it (foggy, cloudy), it won't capture properly. My camera seems to need a more solid image to focus to.


What scan rate are you using?


----------



## mp20748

*1080P*


----------



## Prehjan

MP


...the screenshots are awesome and are reference quality pictures!!!


I was comparing your first shots posted in the forum to the later ones and there is a steady climb as far a the quality is concerned.


Keep it up


Martin


----------



## nashou66

Does look good Mike!!!!, is this with the new inductor in place and why the image is brighter with it?


Now All you need to do is eliminate that ringing, And Scott told me the one thing that would do it is making the HDM coils right over the Deflection coils!!! Shortest distance will get rid of it but with out a complete new chassis design we have to live with timings, retrace and porch settings.


But looks great keep going !!


nashou


----------



## ElTopo

Mike,


is it possible to correct the convergence on the right side ?


Conv seems to be extrem off.


BTW great shots keep it going.



ElTopo


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17337713
> 
> 
> MP
> 
> 
> ...the screenshots are awesome and are reference quality pictures!!!
> 
> 
> I was comparing your first shots posted in the forum to the later ones and there is a steady climb as far a the quality is concerned.
> 
> 
> Keep it up
> 
> 
> Martin



Thanks Martin, I've been really cranking things up here recently. I only have one more tweak and I'm done.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17337837
> 
> 
> Does look good Mike!!!!, is this with the new inductor in place and why the image is brighter with it?



The filament mod (inductor) and a few other tweaks I've since added. The increase in brightness I'm still not sure what happened there and why.




> Quote:
> Now All you need to do is eliminate that ringing, And Scott told me the one thing that would do it is making the HDM coils right over the Deflection coils!!! Shortest distance will get rid of it but with out a complete new chassis design we have to live with timings, retrace and porch settings
> 
> 
> nashou



That ringing I might look into. One that that got me thinking of doing it is that I have a few HDM's here that it varies on. I want to look at why there's a difference between them. And I'm also thinking of shortening the yoke wires.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo* /forum/post/17339183
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> is it possible to correct the convergence on the right side ?
> 
> 
> Conv seems to be extrem off.
> 
> 
> ElTopo



I looked at these this morning and noticed the same thing, but thought it was somehow a focus problem with the camera, but now that you mention it here, I see it's the convergence.....I did a quick convergence and took a few more shots.


thanks..


----------



## mp20748

*Blu Ray 1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## VPH-G90

your








[/quote]

mine


----------



## VPH-G90

Mike i like yours last pictures of gladiator


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17339218
> 
> 
> Mike i like yours last pictures



If you'd want to do a true and fair comparison, you'll have to match the resolution that I'm using (1920x1080P 60hz), to include doing something about the over sharpness that in that last shot.


----------



## VPH-G90

ok it's true I'm 1920x817p72

I'm going to execute me in 1920x1080p60 but I don't like this resolution with black bars that serve no purpose.

For me the real cinema is 2.35

Keep in mind that in Europe the 1080p60 is bad ... there are the jerks in the traveling


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17339243
> 
> 
> ok it's true I'm 1920x817p72
> 
> I'm going to execute me in 1920x1080p60 but I don't like this resolution with black bars that serve no purpose.
> 
> For me the real cinema is 2.35
> 
> Keep in mind that in Europe the 1080p60 is bad ... *there are the jerks in the traveling*




No need to be concerned about traveling, when we're taking stationary shots.


----------



## VPH-G90

yes, but I just take the screens without a touch up the resolution.

As I told you to please you I'll execute me in 1080p60, it will not change much for my picture


----------



## mp20748

Yours











Mine
*1920x1080P /60hz - sharpened!!!!!!*


----------



## VPH-G90

hum sorry yours is more sharpned... it isn't natural. I prefer gladiator


----------



## VPH-G90

1920x817p72


----------



## ElTopo

@VPH-G90: Your shots look absolutely stunning !!!


I hope my small theater is ready beginning 2010 and i hopefully get it managed to take some shots. My screen will have a screen width of 2,10m.

I know that's very small but in my new home i cannot go bigger










What would you guys think going 16/9 or CIH with that screen measurement ? Projection with the BR909 or the G90 ?



BTW VPH-G90 you changed your Dallas chip already ?




thx

ElTopo


----------



## mp20748

More 1080P...


----------



## ElTopo

Mike,


you have a 16/9 screen ? What screen width ?


thank you

ElTopo


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17339631
> 
> 
> More 1080P...



One of my new favorites


----------



## Prehjan

Mp


...you welcome!


Now we are getting somewhere with these shots...take that bulby!!!



The 1st and 4th shots really bring out the capabilities native to these "beasts"! (not to mention he rest of the shots!)


Good job Mike


Martin


----------



## PeriSoft

For God's sake, this is a hobby, not a holy war. To those who have forgotten - we use projectors so we can watch movies, not the other way around. I'm really getting sick of the zealotry - it's over the top, obnoxious, and mostly false, no matter who it's coming from.


I'm all for talking shop, but can we stick to that rather than acting like we want to get oiled up and rub all over our electronics? It's getting kind of embarrassing.


----------



## Prehjan

Peri


I actually hesitated writing that "bulby" comment. (I guess I was actually thinking of your reaction and sort of expected a response! Since you had not shot me down for any of my so called "zealotries" in the past few weeks!!!)


I agree this is not ..some "holy war" as you have called it...but you gotta admit the screenshots above have some "dept" and "look" that is lacking in the "digital" shots! (...at least to my eyes!)


I was only writing about how I was feeling at the time checking them out!


To each its own...if someone is content with a digital (or a CRT for that matter!)....more power to them! (...and no I am not referring to your comments only...if I recall you do use a CRT also!)


Anyhow this is an area of the forum reserved for CRTs....so I guess we do have a certain "license/liberties" to talk about them in such a matter! (...Sorry that my views/feelings made you feel embarrassed!)


Furthermore I don't feel that any of it is embarrassing nor should they be a subject that is taboo, and we should be able to talk about them any which way we choose to! (After all this is a free land and we are both Americans!)


...if someone wishes not to be "sullied" by such concepts...they should not click on the CRT FP link in the master page!


It is as simple as that! ...Now if they do click on the CRT link then they should be ready to hear/read about such sentiments or "zealotraries" as you called them.


Sorry but this is just how I feel. (...and I am sure some others feel the same here!)


I certainly don't wish to invoke such sentiments in anyone that is sensitive to the subject...


With the exceptions of a few trolls every now and then, you seem to be the only one continuously responding with such comments every time I say something....(I have searched this form for evidence of you doing so with others posters here...but it seems that your comments are only directed to my sentiments/postings! Now I may be wrong on this and if I am, I apologies for it in advance!)


I propose that we agree that we both feel different and refrain from writing any further such sentiments on this subject in the future!


In turn I will try my hardest not to invoke any further "thoughts" on this matter from you! (Keep in mind that there already are quite a few postings in existence here and there from both of us on this matter so let us save some time and energy to enjoy this forum instead of talking about our personal "sentiments" on what might be "embarrassing" to you or some other folks!)


Hope this will pave the way for more screenshots and less criticizing on both our parts!


That should make things here more enjoyable...for everyone involved!


Oh! ...and do NOT be embarrassed...I long ago learned the value of not internalizing every sentiments and do and say what I feel is right! (...now if someone can't deal with their thoughts and feelings it is their problem!)


...that is all!!!


Martin


----------



## Mr Bob

These are probably a bit dark, but didn't know that till I uploaded them, Would shoot them a bit lighter in the blacks if I were to reshoot them.


All except for the plane shot, which is too bright, bordering on white clip, with the darks not inky enough. All look fine on the display, it's the shooting that needed special handling that unfortunately I could not give it that day.


Also, this was on an alternate input for BD, where the color sat had not been taken down 5 clicks like it presently is on the Dish sat input. So it's a little overmodulated on color level from ideal. Will try to reshoot sometime soon, if I get time -


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PeriSoft* /forum/post/17343982
> 
> 
> For God's sake, this is a hobby, not a holy war. To those who have forgotten - we use projectors so we can watch movies, not the other way around. I'm really getting sick of the zealotry - it's over the top, obnoxious, and mostly false, no matter who it's coming from.
> 
> 
> I'm all for talking shop, but can we stick to that rather than acting like we want to get oiled up and rub all over our electronics? It's getting kind of embarrassing.



Hi where are yours screens ??


----------



## mp20748

A few more, but now color calibrated with probe.

*Blu Ray 1080P > Moome FullHD > CRT*


----------



## nashou66

Super nice mike, calibrating it brought it up a huge notch!! I bet in person the 3D image pops out at you!!! looks like you adjusted for the ringing as well, or is it just not noticeable in these screenies?


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17349918
> 
> 
> Super nice mike, calibrating it brought it up a huge notch!! I bet in person the 3D image pops out at you!!! looks like you adjusted for the ringing as well, or is it just not noticeable in these screenies?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



The ringing is still there, or at least it was the last time I saw it. It may not show up in the those images, but I'm sure it's still there.


Yes, it's very 3D, with lots of depth.


and you're right, a real calibration has done wonders.



thanks!


----------



## VPH-G90

For mike


your *1920x1080p60*








[/quote]

mine

*1920x1080p60*
  

*1920x817p72*
  



I don't contast huge differences between my 1920x817p72 and 1920x1080p60 for a still image


----------



## VPH-G90

*1920x1080p60*


----------



## mp20748

Absolutely No Sharpening

*1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17351746
> 
> 
> I don't contast huge differences between my 1920x817p72 and 1920x1080p60 for a still image



Try doing them again, but do so without sharpening the images.


----------



## VPH-G90

For mike *WITHOUT SHARPNESS







*


your *1920x1080p60*








[/quote]

mine
*1920x1080p60 without sharness*
  
*1920x1080p60 with sharpness*
  

*1920x817p72 with sarness*
  



I don't contast huge differences between my 1920x817p72 and 1920x1080p60 for a still image


----------



## atlemusic

Sony G70. PS3 1080p into Moome. fH 67.5khz / fV 60.0hz


Shining (96" diagonal)










Coraline (96" diagonal)










The picture seems slightly overscanned with 1080p


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## Prehjan

Mp those screenshots from the blackbook are awesome! (..anyone with that type of a sophisticated taste in movies is alright in my book...hehe!)


The movie was great too!


Martin


----------



## MikeEby

Interesting Mike, your shots of Knowing look just like my setup. The movie shot with a 4K digital RED camera, sharp as hell...The whole picture seemed to have a very brown cast to it.


Mike


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17364562
> 
> 
> Mp those screenshots from the blackbook are awesome! (..anyone with that type of a sophisticated taste in movies is alright in my book...hehe!)
> 
> 
> The movie was great too!
> 
> 
> Martin



Yes, it's been a long time since I've watched something as good as Blackbook.


It has a lot of really nice raw (realistic) scenes and events in it. I'm surprised It was never mentioned during the Oscars or other film awards (to my knowledge).


Simply a very powerful movie!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/17369202
> 
> 
> Interesting Mike, your shots of Knowing look just like my setup. The movie shot with a 4K digital RED camera, sharp as hell...The whole picture seemed to have a very brown cast to it.
> 
> 
> Mike



I'm glad you mentioned this, I was wondering why the movie looked so different.


And you're right, sharpness is not an issue in this movie.


I'll do a few more shots later. And I'll also post some from the Disney's "Earth" Blu Ray.


Earth... is off the chain..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17375177
> 
> 
> Yes, it's been a long time since I've watched something as good as Blackbook.
> 
> 
> It has a lot of really nice raw (realistic) scenes and events in it. I'm surprised It was never mentioned during the Oscars or other film awards (to my knowledge).
> 
> 
> Simply a very powerful movie!



I always Pic that movie up while browsing but never purchase it, now I will have to.


Nashou


----------



## Prehjan

Nashou....MP


It seems that foreign language films no matter how good they are rarely get any recognition this side of the pawn!


Which is sad to say the least....because they are so many good ones....the "counterfeiters" was also a decent movie of the same theme!


"The Black Book" was great and almost everything from that director is good....kinda like Luc Besson!


Did you guys watch "Angel A"? (The cinematography was awesome in that one...the blonde wasn't to shabby either...hehe) ...or "Banlieu 13"? (The chase/fight scenes were of such great caliber that you almost never see in American cinema...Those two dudes were almost walking on walls and sliding down 10 story buildings!! ...no stunt men there!)...or if you wanna go older "subway"!?


And if you guys are into the Cinema Noire thing then I have one more for you all:


"La Fille Sur Le Pond/The Girl on the bridge" (Johnny Depps wife is in that one...her name is Vanessa Paradis, I remember listening to her song "Joe Le Taxi" 20 years ago...she was no more than maybe 13 or 14 at that time and I was a teenager living in Paris France...The story was great also! ....the kind you hardly get in an English language movie unless it is an independent or something!)


Everyone that likes stuff like this should check the above mentioned titles...


Anyhow glad to see some of us still have taste and not watching the boring cookie cutter Hollywood stuff that sometimes is good but most of the time a waste of time!


Martin


----------



## overclkr

Some shots from a mystery projector soon to be in a home theater near you.


















































































Cliff


----------



## MikeEby

Tad bit of ringing or EE on shot 1...Digital I presume?..Enquiring minds want to know?..I know you played with the 3000 panny...My guess would be the new 4000, or perhaps an Epson you brought back from NY?


Mike


----------



## nashou66

I think its Alans Sim PJ he replaced with a marquee










Nashou


----------



## MikeEby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17377742
> 
> 
> I think its Alans Sim PJ he replaced with a marquee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



Ahh...Single or 3 Chip?



Mike


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/17377966
> 
> 
> Ahh...Single or 3 Chip?
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



These screenshots look like an RS20 to me.


----------



## mp20748

*1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC*


----------



## SteveMo

Looking good MP.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/17377391
> 
> 
> My guess would be the new 4000, or perhaps an Epson you brought back from NY?
> 
> 
> Mike



Nope, and nope.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17377742
> 
> 
> I think its Alans Sim PJ he replaced with a marquee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



Nope.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/17378077
> 
> 
> These screenshots look like an RS20 to me.



and nope.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/17378164
> 
> 
> Looking good MP.



Yep.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/17378360
> 
> 
> Yep.



Spammers.


----------



## mp20748

Over the weekend, I was able to push things into 7th gear..










Absolutely NO Sharpening!



A few more familiar shots from Baracka...

*1080P > Moomes FullHD > Marquee 9500Lc with NEW changes*


----------



## mp20748

a few more...


----------



## nashou66

Well finally got the Longbows up on the ceiling !! I did a preliminary set up and have some issues with convergence on the lower left corner of the right PJ. I just can not get it to converge with the left PJ at that spot no matter what geometry controls i use to manipulate it. This might be a bad convergence coil that Scott was talking about making their way into a few Pj's. I worked on Schemflug and on my set up had to use the protected factory adjustors to get it right. i have gotten pretty good doing this now!










I took some shots of twilight and just now noticed on this rig that it was shot with lots of film grain, i never noticed it on my M8000. but this set up shows all that detail, and I thought it was just a poor transfer. here are the shots, I still have not touched the colorimetry in the blend zone as i want to get alignment done perfectly first.

























































nashou


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17384663
> 
> 
> Well finally got the Longbows up on the ceiling !! I did a preliminary set up and have some issues with convergence on the lower left corner of the right PJ. I just can not get it to converge with the left PJ at that spot no matter what geometry controls i use to manipulate it. This might be a bad convergence coil that Scott was talking about making their way into a few Pj's. I worked on Schemflug and on my set up had to use the protected factory adjustors to get it right. i have gotten pretty good doing this now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took some shots of twilight and just now noticed on this rig that it was shot with lots of film grain, i never noticed it on my M8000. but this set up shows all that detail, and I thought it was just a poor transfer. here are the shots, I still have not touched the colorimetry in the blend zone as i want to get alignment done perfectly first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nashou































DAMN!


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Cliff , there is still a visible blend zone but that will come last once i really get alignment perfect. if i had 2 G90s it be a non issue, more points of convergence i think.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17384725
> 
> 
> Thanks Cliff , there is still a visible blend zone but that will come last once i really get alignment perfect. if i had 2 G90s it be a non issue, more points of convergence i think.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



More points of everything.










Trust me when I tell you though, it can be done. YES BIG DOG IT CAN BE DONE.


I'm flapping my mouth about a few things in regards to the blend. Hopefully it will do some good.


Cliff


----------



## mp20748

Here's a really dark movie (The Sentinel).


100% Un-touched!


*A whopping 1080P > Moome FullHD > My Marquee 9500LC in 7th gear*


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/17384961
> 
> 
> More points of everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trust me when I tell you though, it can be done. YES BIG DOG IT CAN BE DONE.
> *
> 
> I'm flapping my mouth about a few things in regards to the blend. Hopefully it will do some good.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Oh Do tell dual PJ guru!!!!


nashou!!!!


----------



## Verge2

did i see twilight pics up there ?



surely not.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Verge2* /forum/post/17385878
> 
> 
> did i see twilight pics up there ?
> 
> 
> 
> surely not.




yes you did, and I am not ashamed !! Great concept and twist on Vampires.

a fresh new cinematographic style, excitement, action, love, and all around

well produced film. this film also has lots of dark scenes and the film grain

really helps with getting your focus down. On my M8000 i never felt like i had optical focus correct.


Athansios


----------



## dropzone7









nashou, those look great!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Nice Mike looks like you worked out the ringing! I actualy have some on mine too and its smack dab in the middle cause of the blend. I need to redo the timings in the VP to move it out of the way.


nashou


----------



## Verge2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17385937
> 
> 
> yes you did, and I am not ashamed !! Great concept and twist on Vampires.
> 
> a fresh new cinematographic style, excitement, action, love, and all around
> 
> well produced film. this film also has lots of dark scenes and the film grain
> 
> really helps with getting your focus down. On my M8000 i never felt like i had optical focus correct.
> 
> 
> Athansios





But with a projector as sharp as your's, you can see the makeup flaking off everybody...



You need to downgrade.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17385937
> 
> 
> yes you did, and I am not ashamed !! Great concept and twist on Vampires.
> 
> a fresh new cinematographic style, excitement, action, love, and all around
> 
> well produced film. this film also has lots of dark scenes and the film grain
> 
> really helps with getting your focus down. On my M8000 i never felt like i had optical focus correct.
> 
> 
> Athansios



Wow! Different strokes for different folks for sure. I can't express how bad this movie was and how calling it a vampire movie is really painful to me. it's good that you liked it though, and the pics look great.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17390328



LOVE this one!


----------



## Mark_A_W




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/17396912
> 
> 
> Wow! Different strokes for different folks for sure. I can't express how bad this movie was and how calling it a vampire movie is really painful to me. it's good that you liked it though, and the pics look great.



I liked it....watch out, it's addictive. Don't read the books - they are cheap pulp rubbish aimed at 14 year old girls....and you can't them put down.


----------



## overclkr

300K reads in the very near future.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark_a_w* /forum/post/17397385
> 
> 
> i liked it....watch out, it's addictive. Don't read the books - they are cheap pulp rubbish aimed at 14 year old girls....and you can't them put down.


----------



## mp20748

One from CR.


----------



## mdlht

Sony 1292 + C2
 


bye

Mimmo


----------



## ElTopo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mdlht* /forum/post/17398620
> 
> 
> Sony 1292 + C2
> 
> 
> 
> bye
> 
> Mimmo




Very nice shot. Superb colors










ElTopo


----------



## atlemusic

1080p into Sony G70


Josh Groban Live










Six Days Seven Nights










Gladiator










Gladiator


----------



## Mr Bob

Excellent line structure and luminance levels/shadow detail. The fleshtones/colorations need some work, tho -



b


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/17397385
> 
> 
> I liked it....watch out, it's addictive. Don't read the books - they are cheap pulp rubbish aimed at 14 year old girls....and you can't them put down.



That's what I've heard of the books. Everyone who's read them says they aren't that well written, but you love he story.


----------



## nashou66

















































Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Some more : Also i decided to show to some who might not know what Edge Blending is exactly, so i shut off each PJ and took shots then with both on.




















Ok now here is the edge blend demo pics each is approximately a 1.3 (1064x800) image with the edges faded by the Tv-One C2-2250 processors, one for each Projector fed my a moome MUX-HD hdcp stripper.





















And now Both Projectors on for the full 2.40 image











Athanasios


----------



## Prehjan

Nashou


...that is some way cool [email protected]#t!


I only wish I didn't have my student loans to pay up first so that I can buy a blender like the tone that you are using! (God knows I am set on the 8 inch marquees for the job!)


Martin


----------



## atomiccow

The pictures are getting quite good.

I have never been much on snapping photos. At least the ones I have taken really hadn't represented very well what I was seeing.


Has this thread changed anyone's method of taking pictures of screenshots?

Like is there now "the optimal"way to get the best picture?


(The thread is so big if you had this back there somewhere sorry for not reading the whole thing. I just like to poke my nose in occasionally)


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Prehjan

MP


I don't wanna give up the end of the movie...but...


What did you think of the movie's "twist" towards the end of the story?


A HINT:


Who the evil character was specially when you find out who the evil one was towards the end.



Awesome movie, period!


Martin


----------



## VPH-G90

hi, screen with sony G90 1920x817p 72 with sharned


----------



## overclkr

Awesome guys!


----------



## Prehjan

Same here


It is great to see screenshos of this caliber


Brings a warm fuzzy feeling when you reach this level of "visual nirvana"



...keep it up and make it even better!


Martin


----------



## mdlht

*@ VPH-G90*











Fantastic


By

Mimmo


----------



## Verge2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17406978
> 
> 
> Same here
> 
> 
> It is great to see screenshos of this caliber
> 
> 
> Brings a warm fuzzy feeling when you reach this level of "visual nirvana"



It really does doesn't it, maybe i should post shots of my super soft 7 incher and ruin the thread....




nope, i'll let it be.


----------



## mp20748

No Sharpening!

*1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## VPH-G90

sony G90 1920x817p 72 sharpned


----------



## ElTopo

The G90 seems to be the sharpest CRT.


Absolutely terrific shots










ElTopo


----------



## VPH-G90

I don't know if the G90 is the largest CRT, I think it is a question of optimizing the best. Mine don't have P19lug.

I think the barco 909 with C-element is over, its bandwidth is higher, the lens are hq900 (the best), it will be swift in the same resolutions that the G90


----------



## nashou66

The HD10F's of the G90 are basically the same as the HFQ's from what i have heard, It also depends on screen size as the larger you go the larger the scan lines . whats your screen size?


Nashou


----------



## MikeEby

Nashou, Did you give your car a paint job? VPH-G90....Great shots!











Mike


----------



## VPH-G90

HQF 900

12 lp/mm Optical Resolution


HD10F

10 lp/mm Optical Resolution

The gap is somewhat smaller but the differences are summed difference

my screen is 3 meters

Nashou 3000 posts... the number 3000 is for me thank you


----------



## mp20748

*1080P Not Sharpened*









*Same 1080P image sharpened in Windows Live*


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeEby* /forum/post/17410967
> 
> 
> Nashou, Did you give your car a paint job? VPH-G90....Great shots!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I should do that same paint job huh !










Nashou


----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## mp20748

*1080P > Moome FullHD*


----------



## atomiccow

Does anyone get that real visual depth that was in the theater during the title sequence with the blu ray of Casino Royale. I am looking forward to trying again with my G70 but I really wasn't experiencing the same thing I saw in the theaters with my 1271


----------



## VPH-G90

sony G90 1920x817p 72 sharpned


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## Mr Bob

Nice!



b


----------



## VPH-G90

thank you


----------



## asq19




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17426529
> 
> 
> sony G90 1920x817p 72 sharpned



Dumb question, but what movie is this? Looks phenomenal by the way.

Thanks.


----------



## VPH-G90

themovie is "The Chronicles of Reddick" with vin diesel


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## lexx21

That setup looks AWESOME!


----------



## SteveMo

Me and my 1/20 second shots.


----------



## asq19

Thank you for the info


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## overclkr

Damn VPH, looking good.


Cliff


----------



## VPH-G90

thank you cliff


----------



## nashou66

Nice VP!!!, But what's your source? You need to adjust your timings to help get rid of the ringing on the left side. Or if you have room move the image over to give the beam time to calm down before the image scan. But MAN those colors look great!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## VPH-G90

Hi, on the left it is not ringing but the marking of the tube ...

My G90 displays 3500 hours and the raster was set incorrectly before.

My source is toshiba HD DVD XE1 with cristalio2


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17430619
> 
> 
> Hi, on the left it is not ringing but
> 
> the marking of the tube ...
> 
> My G90 displays 3500 hours and the raster was set incorrectly before.
> 
> My source is toshiba HD DVD XE1 with cristalio2



Hmm, Are you sure, because here you can see clear lines

about 5-6 of them.If it was a previous wear patern i assume

it be more linear and even, not lines like in your images, look

back at some of Mike Parkers pics with light images on the

left, you'll see it looks just like yours. 1080p is hard to do

with out ringing and getting all the picture to be seen.

you have to increase the back porch to try to eliminate

them or move the image over to the other side to give the

beam a bit more time to settle.












Here in Mikes shot you can see them clearly just like yours.











Nashou


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

*NOT Sharpened!*

*1920x1080P - 100% untouched*


----------



## mp20748

1080P image not sharpened...










Same 1080P image Sharpened!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/17430109



Wow! This is Chronicles of Riddick right? I've never seen the movie, mostly because all of the reviews said it was *horrible*. But your last set of shots make it even just worth seeing for the scenery! Thanks for posting!


Kal


----------



## mp20748




----------



## WTS

Wow, those are looking really nice Mike, I see your Marquee is taking big steps in improvements lately, nice work.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/17449465
> 
> 
> Wow, those are looking really nice Mike, I see your Marquee is taking big steps in improvements lately, nice work.



Yes, there's a few more things I've done recently..










The last one I really like and will be discussing in full detail over the weekend. I was previously using a bit of gamma boost, but disabled it today.


I'll get back to this over at Curt's in the next couple of days, but there was a particular noise (900khz) on only one leg of the rails that was on the first stage clamp circuits...


----------



## WTS

I think maybe your photo skills have probably gotten better as well.


----------



## nashou66

i noticed something about my Lg BH200 Multiblue player, when it pauses it creates like a video noise which blurs the image a bit. I need to put the Lumagen back into the chain and use its freeze function the Tv-ones have it but trying to freeze two units at the same time is impossible!


well here are some Aeon Flux shots Enjoy


----------



## nashou66

some more....



































Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

More at the larger sized image

*Pure 1080P into my CRT*


----------



## mp20748

A new kid (mod) is on the block....


----------



## nashou66

Chronicles of Ridick. I did some more messing around, not too much progress but some. One thing for sue is even the new longbows need some modifying, i need to first do the HVPS as there is back ground noise there that i don't have in my older marquee's that I did do the modification to. those carbon comp resistors are much noisier than the Ohmite ceramics.




















Now on this one if you compare it to VPHG90's , its much darker, to match his i would have to raise brightness up to 80, mine is at 53. there is no way he has FFTB as even at 53 i do not.































Some more: I can't wait till they add gamma control to the C2-2xxx series. it help out a lot.











This is my Favorite of the bunch: I think the camera was able to focus the best on this one, thats one thing about auto focus, the depth of field of the image on the screen can trick the camera to where to focus.






































Nashou


----------



## mp20748

Here we go. No sharpening, no nothing. Straight from the camera un-touched!


Gamma in the FullHD completely disabled.










*Pure 1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17430489
> 
> 
> Nice VP!!!, But what's your source? You need to adjust your timings to help get rid of the ringing on the left side. Or if you have room move the image over to give the beam time to calm down before the image scan. But MAN those colors look great!!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Ok athanasios in fact you were right for the ringing on the left side !!

I corrected the problem


----------



## VPH-G90

mike you have the ringing on the left side lol


----------



## nashou66

Ringing for high scan rates is one of the hardest things for CRT's to overcome. You want to be able to keep the entire image but still give the beam enough time to calm down from its flyback. Increasing the back porch helps but you could run into the problem of cutting off some of the image.


Nashou


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90 just shapness with toshiba xe1 and crystalio2

1920x817p 72


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90

the dark is.... dark


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## overclkr




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## Mr Bob

Wow!



b


----------



## mp20748

I'm all tweaked out..










*Full 1080P > Moome V2 > My marquee 9500LC*


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

MP, it's looking great!!!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

[email protected]


----------



## SteveMo

Check the less obvious MP. You will be fine.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/17465525
> 
> 
> [email protected]



Nice! looks like you were able to keep the geometry close. I think you should look for a used Lumagen scaler when you save up some scratch.



Mike Nice last shot !!











Still thinking of sending me a Vim to play with?


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

Here we go again...


Last night I made some changes to the Marquee that totally separated the VIM (video input module) from the projectors power rails. The VIM is now powered by two (+/-5v - +/-12v) very low noise power supplies now mounted on a small wooden board and setting on the top of the projector. Next I'll look at doing the same for the next boards.


The changes on this end are obvious, the image is extremely cleaner and even more dimensional. Gamma is disabled (removed) on the Moome card.


I can now see how terrible my lenses (HD-10L) are and will also look at the GT-17's again sometime soon.

*Pure 1080P - NOT sharpened*


----------



## nashou66

Wait till you build the 85 volt power supply Like Jea Hong Lee did way back when.




















here is his Blog, on the left side you'll see 9500LC click on that, he has schematics for all the voltage power supplies and pics.

http://blog.paran.com/pcaudio# 


Use a google translator from Korean to English


Here is his Vim Power supplies:



































Athanasios


----------



## Paul Butler

Thats one Marquee mod I WON'T be doing










You two (Nash and MP) - stop encouraging each other! Just sit back and WATCH the movie!



No real chance of that is there!? I'd be as well talking to the wall (or the wife!).


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Paul Butler* /forum/post/17480866
> 
> 
> Thats one Marquee mod I WON'T be doing



Neither will I, or would I be doing anything to the 85 volt rail.


I have two small switching power supplies connected to the VIM and located on top of the Marquee near the mount. And that's as bizarre as it'll get for me.


The Linear supplies sound good for the VIM, but it's not the best way to go if you're trying to get around the LVPS in the projector.


I'm using two VERY clean and small dual switching power supplies and the end results is well worth whatever I went through to make it happen.


----------



## nashou66

I bet if you did use linear on your moded Vims mike it be even better. Even the cleanest SMPS can have more noise than a well thought out linear supply from what i read.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17481052
> 
> 
> I bet if you did use linear on your moded Vims mike it be even better. Even the cleanest SMPS can have more noise than a well thought out linear supply from what i read.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



The weekend I'll fire up the scope and set up both probes at equal amplitude. From there I'll measure the load from an linear supply as well a one of the switching supplies I've mentioned.


I'll post a screen-shot showing the results. Linear should have lower noise, but that's not what I measured.


----------



## benareeno

MP,


do you have a red c-element on your Marquee??


----------



## Prehjan

Nashou


I didn't have time to read the whole post


...are you building separate power supplies for the neck boards?


Martin


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *benareeno* /forum/post/17481448
> 
> 
> MP,
> 
> 
> do you have a red c-element on your Marquee??




Nope!


----------



## crt nuts

MP


What screen are you using there? Pics look fantastic as usual.


Mark


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

It was only this evening that we watched Terminator Salvation. The bass was quite insane! My son told me that he felt he was really in a helicopter. I felt I was really in the movie! Hehehe










Anyways, here are some few shots.


----------



## mp20748

A few more...

NOT sharpened!

*1080P > Moome FullHD > My lowly 9500LC*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## kypha























Definitely in 6th gear!!


----------



## mp20748

Blu Ray "HOME"


100% Un-touched!

*Pure 1080P > Moome FullHD > CRT*


----------



## mp20748

more...


----------



## mp20748

Blu Ray - Serenity.


Very sharp movie, but terribly dark.

*1080P > Moome V2 > CRT*


----------



## Mr Bob

Nowhere near as good as Mike's of course, but colorful anyway -













b


----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## Mr Bob




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Zues













Looks great bob but you can tell it's a rp-crt compared to front projection. Much more hotspotting, uneven brightness.


----------



## Mr Bob

Granted. Yeah, similar to too high a gain on a front screen pj.


I'm trapped by my living room scenario. My tripod is set back as far as it can go such that I can still see my LCD screen on the cam itself, behind my couch. To go any farther I would have to elevate my tripod from the front walk and fire thru my LR window from the front porch!


Trust me, on this rear pj'd tech those issues are not there when I shoot from a suitable distance. At present that means the cam's lens is currently shooting from about 10' back, and for a 73" CRT RPTV that's simply not enough.


Shooting closer, like at 6', exacerbates those issues even more, like you would not believe! I've tried it. But only on my cam! Not with my eyes.


It was much worse when I shot my CSI headshot picture for my original website cover. It was a 35mm shot from 6' on my 65" Panny, and it was much worse on these issues. Even more hotspotting and uneven fleshtones.


So I know on fresnel/lenticular rear pj tech it would be improved marvelously by shooting with my cam from much farther back.


Yeah, that's the nature of CRT RPTV, unfortunately.


But on the good side, fortunately my EYES don't ever see those issues. Just my cam! And nobody has ever commented on it when simply viewing my set, so I know it's more a cam issue than anything else.


Luckily, too, because just like you I would be woefully distracted by it if it were an inescapable common occurrence with CRT RPTV tech. Fortunately out there in the world, it's not.



b


----------



## winduptoy

Bob;


Those last few rounds of screenshots are superb!


----------



## mp20748

*1080P > Moome FullHD > CRT*


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17523598
> 
> 
> Bob;
> 
> 
> Those last few rounds of screenshots are superb!























b


----------



## nashou66

I did a little Zone contrast modulation, still not perfect but getting closer



































Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

A finished work..









100% untouched

*Pure 1080P > Moome FHD/V2 and my lowly 9500LC*


----------



## Mr Bob













Look at those colors! Nice, Mike!












b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Ok I finally got some colored HD 145's to put into the longbows, Redid convergence and some Geometry tweaks and decided to watch the Foo Fighters in Wembley Stadium.

Awesome concert and great footage. 86k fans!!! So i had to take some screenies, only thing is this is 1.78 material and i still don't have an input for that so its cropped top and bottom.




































































And then a little Jimmy page and Jhon Paul Jones Visit !!!











Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17536630
> 
> 
> Ok I finally got some colored HD 145's to put into the longbows, Redid convergence and some Geometry tweaks and decided to watch the Foo Fighters in Wembley Stadium.
> 
> Awesome concert and great footage. 86k fans!!! So i had to take some screenies, only thing is this is 1.78 material and i still don't have an input for that so its cropped top and bottom.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



DAAYYMMMMNNNN!!!!










NASHOU!!!!!!!!!


----------



## plain fan

Yeah, what is that, blu ray?


----------



## VPH-G90

1920X817p 72 sharpned with pioneer LX91


Star treck


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/17537931
> 
> 
> Yeah, what is that, blu ray?




yeah I saw it in the music section at best buy, 19 bucks.


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Athanasios,


This is unbelievable!!! It's an awesome shot!!!


----------



## mp20748

Untouched!

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17540767
> 
> 
> Untouched!



I like this one, and The Fall is a spectacular, and spectacular looking movie.


----------



## mp20748

A few more...

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## g-man5.1

Mike,

You have taken things to a whole new level. I have never seen your screenshots look so lifelike. Great depth and color rendition. Not to mention the awesome foreground and background detail that's so clearly evident. That 9500LC must be visual bliss in person. Incredible simply incredible.


----------



## winduptoy

Hi Mike;


You have posted some impressive screenshots in the past few months. For some reason your geometry has taken a giant step backwards recently.


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## nashou66

New Moome card in, some first shots











































































And a comparison from the old cards.
*Old moome single HDMI card*








*New Moome card*










I know its a lot of pics in one post but I wanted to show some dark scens,colorfull scenes and close up shots.



Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

More of these tomorrow after I do a few more adjustments to the PJ.

*1080P > Moome FHD/V2 > lowly Marquee*


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## mp20748

*1080P into CRT*


----------



## mp20748

Un-touched 1080P


----------



## nashou66




----------



## tomson1973

.... to start with an old movie........


Tom









[/IMG]








[/IMG]


----------



## mp20748

I had Craig Rounds here on last Sunday and he went into his bags of wonders and touched up on my color balance.


He would have done a much better job, but I told him the PJ is not yet ready for finals.


*1080P into CRT / UNTOUCHED*



















__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## nashou66

Yepp Craig does know his calibration tricks on Marquee's but the G90's his front projection CRT specialty, and you should see him work on the Mitsubishi rear projection CRT's!! man!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

I changed the lenses from 10L's back to GT17's

*1080P into my lowly 9500LC - UNTOUCHED*


----------



## VPH-G90

G90 817p72 HDDVD


----------



## kypha

Hott!!!!


----------



## cinema mad

From looking at your latest round of pics mike P, I can see straite away that You have done an Amazing Job on those V2 Moome Cards Mike ..


The Sky/ Cloud shots tell the story







for me, and also the images are heaps Sharper ...


Cheers...


----------



## dthibode

MP, I haven't looked in a while, but man your pics look awesome. The clouds, the leaves. stunning. way to go!


If I got mine looking that good I'd stop messing with it before I screwed something up, haha.


----------



## nashou66

































Athanasios


Will it Blend?


----------



## overclkr

Damn Nash! Nice!


----------



## dropzone7

Very nice!


----------



## mark haflich

I flipped through a lot of these shots dismayed that the only movie I have ever watched over and over and over again in bits and pieces and own in at least 3l lDVD issues and 2 Bluray issues was no longer being used ffor screen shots. What a relief to find near the end, there she was--the FIFTH Element. Thanks MP.


----------



## nashou66

LMAO!!!! Mark you need a CRT again










Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17659997
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!! Mark you need a CRT again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



No, he's right where he needs to be with a digital. CRT is too complex for Mark. Anything with more than three controls on it confuses him.


Keep pressing that one button..











Here's a few quick and fast ones that I did a few minutes ago with a lot of daylight in the room. I just cranked up the contrast and gave it digital brightness...


----------



## mp20748

More from the 5th Element...











Evaluating boards - not calibrated.

*1080P UNTOUCHED!*


----------



## winduptoy

How do you get rid of the progress bar for screenshots of Star Trek? Curser down works for UP (Good thing 'cause that sucker was huge!)


----------



## mp20748

Untouched!


----------



## nashou66

Heres a couple with the Man behind the screenshot.





















Athanasios


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/17658761
> 
> 
> Damn Nash! Nice!



Hey Cliffy, where are your screen shots?







I know you started the thread.....BUT, that was back in 2007.







Where are your CURRENT screen shots?










How's everyone doing? Cliffy, MP, Terry (if he's still around), Curtie, etc.


----------



## mark haflich

All the boys are alive and well. Parker likes his steaks well done. Me. I like my steak medium rare.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/17683130
> 
> 
> Hey Cliffy, where are your screen shots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you started the thread.....BUT, that was back in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are your CURRENT screen shots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's everyone doing? Cliffy, MP, Terry (if he's still around), Curtie, etc.



Hey, Bruce is back!!!


It's good to read that you're still around and hanging in there.


It's even better to see that you're still Bruce, so all must be well..


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17686092
> 
> 
> Hey, Bruce is back!!!
> 
> 
> It's good to read that you're still around and hanging in there.
> 
> 
> It's even better to see that you're still Bruce, so all must be well..



I've never been gone.







It's just that I'm so tired most of the time that I fall asleep while reading a thread.







It looks like its a lot of other people that seem to be missing.







The funny thing is that you can't even find most of them in the digital forum. They just disappeared into thin air.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/17687352
> 
> 
> I've never been gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just that I'm so tired most of the time that I fall asleep while reading a thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like its a lot of other people that seem to be missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that you can't even find most of them in the digital forum. They just disappeared into thin air.



I'm still here brother. Just getting my rear end kicked right now.










Family and work been keeping me wrapped up pretty good.


Happy Holidays Bruce!


----------



## Prehjan

I for one like MP shots!


Martin


----------



## mp20748

Woo Hoo... Check out what I've done to the focus circuit my Marquee.




















































































































And before these changes, I thought I needed better lenses..









*1080P into my CRT - 100% UNTOUCHED!







*


----------



## mp20748

Still totally not sharpened 1080P..




























totally


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

*1080P - NOT Sharpened*


----------



## mp20748

Finally got around to tweaking the focus. Also changed to my other camera...



Totally untouched 1080P


----------



## mp20748

More...

*Only one tweaked, all others totally Untouched 1080P*














































*This one brightened*


----------



## mark haflich

MP.What movie are the raft shots from? Thanks.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/17729803
> 
> 
> MP.What movie are the raft shots from? Thanks.




Raft?? If you meant the one with people in a boat, that's from KONG.


----------



## mp20748

*Untouched 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## mark haflich

H iMP It looks like an inflatable raft. I have taken many class 5 riverraft trips on such inflatables.Thanks


----------



## nashou66

New Oppo player in the house!! I like it!!!
























































Athanasios


----------



## winduptoy

Wow! The detail in that long shot goes on and on. How do you like the Oppo? I'm thinking of getting one.


BTW, don't you just love the progress bars that won't go away?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17743257
> 
> 
> Wow! The detail in that long shot goes on and on. How do you like the Oppo? I'm thinking of getting one.
> 
> 
> BTW, don't you just love the progress bars that won't go away?



I like it, but with the blend units there is one thing i dont like, I dont think it outputs [email protected] when the movie is not playing, so lest say in the setup menu my blend units think its a lower res which i do not have programed into them, so when it outputs to the PJ the two hals are not sync'd so there is an overlap. this happens in the USB port also so if i want to use my home made test patterns they do not line up. And for converging the blend i have a sequential set of convergence grids that go from large to very small, so from 14 grids to 140.( 140 inch wide so i made the grids in multiples). This helps converge and do the geometry more precise. I think I might ask them how it actually works.


With my BH200 it is always puting out [email protected] in all modes unles the menu

in the movie is not, mostly HD DVD or AVCHD material some times.


But other wise it is a tweaker's dream. So many options, and I like the selectable YUV/RGB options for its output.


I still have to mess around some more but it is nice, i tried the yUV 4:2:2 to the moome directly and it looked great on one PJ, my TV-One units are having a YUV issue.



Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

The snow is coming, so that will allow me to spend some special time with the setup and after that we'll through in a few test patterns.


Convergence a little off, but sharpness looks fantastic at 1080P..










Looks even better on the screen.

*Still Untouched 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## ElTopo

Mike, your shots are awesome especially the last one










Extrem sharpness !!!!



ElTopo


----------



## mp20748

*More Untouched 1080P...*


----------



## mp20748

A few more untouched 1080P:


----------



## Webmonkey

Nice Mp - what movie are these WW2 screenshots from???


----------



## mp20748

Here ya go:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/985/blackbook.html


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Webmonkey* /forum/post/17754248
> 
> 
> Nice Mp - what movie are these WW2 screenshots from???



The black book! (Zwartboek)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_(film )


Awesome movie...not like the cookie cutter/regurgitated junk Hollywood puts out with every new season!


...and the blonde girl in it is not too shabby either! (...another classic ageless hottie!)


MP has some taste in movies! whoever watches that type of director is great in my book!


Martin


----------



## mp20748

*More 100% Untouched (NOT sharpened, NOT lightened - Darkened, etc..) 1080P into my lowly CRT..







*


----------



## deej84

Screenshots from my Sony 1252. Convergence is a little off and just used a point and shoot camera... but thought it would be fun to post some shots up here.


Dustin


----------



## nashou66

Nice dustin, are you using a tripod to shoot? Also try the timer so your not shaking the camera. But not too shabby!


Nashou


----------



## deej84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17766322
> 
> 
> Nice dustin, are you using a tripod to shoot? Also try the timer so your not shaking the camera. But not too shabby!
> 
> 
> Nashou



Thanks Nashou, kind of intimidating postings shots right after Mike Parkers incredible shots!! No, I have a Canon 880IS that I got last Christmas. I haven't really played around with it too much and not a camera guy at all. I had the projector sitting on my knee. I fiddled around with different ISO's but that was about it.


----------



## imprez25

I guess since Deej can post his 1252, I can get my 1251 shots in here!


These are unedited and only resized due to flickr's terms of use.










The Fifth Element Sd DVD










The Fith Element SD DVD










Hot Fuz HD DVD










300 HD DVD


I too need a tripod and to use my more "manual" camera as the images aren't quite sharp as what is on the screen.


----------



## winduptoy

Imprezzive! Looks like a thorough job on setup. Good geometry, focus, black & white level. Looks like grayscale has blue tint to hightlights. Have you done a grayscale?


----------



## imprez25

Thanks!

I've only done it by eye (so no







). In real life they don't have a noticable blue tint. Though the picture shows Corbin Dallas as being a bit purple-ish doesn't it?


It might be an issue with the white balance on the camera. I'll try to get some different shots tonight with my other camera.


To set the geometry I used a lcd projector to display a test pattern and aligned the crt to that grid. It worked and only took me about 20 minutes to align everything.


----------



## imprez25

here are some more of Fifth Element sd-dvd.

Again these are untouched other than resized by flickr.


----------



## imprez25

more:


































enjoy


----------



## deej84

Wow imprez25, I'm really impressed with your recent shots! Makes me wanna tweak my 1252 and camera some more. I'm gonna get the thing on the ceiling sometime soon in the new year and pick up a tripod and get some more screenshots going. I also wanna pick up a Fury3 as I'm only running component on a first gen. moome card. For some reason the DVI is cutting in and out on the HD DVD player and won't work with my Pioneer Blu-ray whatsoever. What are you using as a source imprez, and what are you using for cabling?? Keep the shots coming!!! Hopefully we can get some other lowend CRT owners posting some screenshots also


----------



## imprez25

Deej84- thanks! My video chain is this: ps3->HDfury1->Box1040lite->Projector. I'm running all monoprice.com cables (25ft hdmi->HDMI wall plate-> 6ft hdmi to dvi cable into fury then out of the 1040 with a 6 ft RGBHV breakout cable).


I have a Toshiba HD A2 that I currently run via component through a marantz 5002 receiver. Though I don't really use it that often, other than to check some material that I'm very familiar with. (Hot Fuzz, Transformers, casino, etc).


The images I posted are slightly darker than what I see on the screen. My camera only has a min shutter speed of 1 sec.


----------



## mp20748

More Untouched 1080P into my lowly CRT


----------



## mp20748

More untouched 1080P...


----------



## mp20748

*More untouched 1080P!*


----------



## mp20748

A few more 1080p, but this time I lowered the saturation only. No sharpening or anything else.


getting the PJ ready for testing this coming week..


----------



## techman707

Looks great and appears to have plenty of saturation even after you lowered it.


----------



## TvTechie010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob*  /forum/post/17508388
> 
> 
> Nowhere near as good as Mike's of course, but colorful anyway -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [URL='https:/workout/upload/52/b/happy.gif%5B/IMG']https://www.********************/workout/upload/52/b/happy.gif[/IMG[/URL] ]
> [IMG]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3006/maybellinecommercial111.jpg



Great photos!


----------



## zapper

Great ones but they are CRT display that is the best as far as blacks, etc but they the picture are FANTASTIC, Rats I have a DLP 56" 10801 and a LCD projector 1080P pictures are ok with out a calibration.


----------



## mp20748

more from my lowly 9500 after a few minor changes...



1080P no sharpening but saturation was lowered.


----------



## mp20748

From the Spears and Munsil Blu Ray


100% UN-touched!

*1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## sammypetter

This great pictures, thank you for sharing them. I will return to post the picture on this forum and you'll find them great.


----------



## mp20748

More...


Planet Earth - untouched


----------



## nashou66

Still some blend zone showing, but the super secrete menu helped out my convergence issues!
























































Athanasios


----------



## Prehjan

Ramble on Nashou!


I will post some screenshots myself. (Since I just got MP's latest VIM... Haven't had time to install it yet but will tomorrow! I will also have do a complete setup! cool!!!)


I am so giddy!!!! hehe (...probably not the right word but that is what comes to mind!)



Martin


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TvTechie010* /forum/post/17868065
> 
> 
> Great photos!



Thanks!












b


----------



## mp20748

Started some work on some other areas of the PJ...

*1080P almost untouched (no sharpening), with only saturation lowered*


----------



## jesusjones

These are shots from my 1272 of inglorius bastards. Its 720p changed to 666p before feeding it to my projector.....I think










Camera was set to auto and I held it in my hand.


Tell me what needs fixin!

And how to post them the same way you guys do..


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jesusjones* /forum/post/17918709
> 
> 
> These are shots from my 1272 of inglorius bastards. Its 720p changed to 666p before feeding it to my projector.....I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camera was set to auto and I held it in my hand.
> 
> 
> Tell me what needs fixin!
> 
> And how to post them the same way you guys do..



Upload your pics to an off sitre picture hosting site such as Photobucket(you'll need to set up an acct), once you do, the site should provide you with the image url. Post it here and voila!


----------



## imprez25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jesusjones* /forum/post/17918709
> 
> 
> These are shots from my 1272 of inglorius bastards. Its 720p changed to 666p before feeding it to my projector.....I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camera was set to auto and I held it in my hand.
> 
> 
> Tell me what needs fixin!
> 
> And how to post them the same way you guys do..



It looks like your geometry is off. The faces look stretched vertically. otherwise looks good!


----------



## Shoujiki

What screen size is that JesusJones?


----------



## lordcloud

Gary's CRT















Kevin 3000's Digital (HD 350)


----------



## Shoujiki

That's a good comparison of the two technologies. There's a definite color shift in the digital (or the CRT?). The whites look whiter on the CRT, there not tinted. The blacks a blacker too, but some areas lack "detail" that is visible on the digital. Funny thing is, if you stare at the digital shot long enough, it looks normal, to an untrained eye. They've come along way since there introduction. I had an old Sanyo and that put out the worst picture ever. Almost unwatchable unless you were showing a DOS prompt on the screen!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/17923190
> 
> 
> Gary's CRT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin 3000's Digital (HD 350)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My CRT Blend from a few months ago, much better now though, need ot take new shots of this scene.



Nashou


----------



## jesusjones

My screen is 70 inches(pretty small) and currently projected onto a cheep board from home depot. I have one of those white counter top screens though. Gives better color than this one but I have not glued it down yet.


Also this camera does not really do justice(all the larger writing is very readable). I'll try my brothers much better one later. And I'll do a bit more convergence. I did that whole spring thing for maximizing raster and the springs are too soft. Always jiggles around.



















Sorry for the crazy size.


Rudy


----------



## mp20748

*Untouched 1080P into my CRT*


----------



## mp20748

Saturation lowered...


----------



## Mr Bob

Focusing of cam not perfect on this set, but I think the colorations are nice -


----------



## mp20748

I'm using my sons PS3 for these following shots. My Starship Troopers Blu Ray will not play in my BDP 360.


Totally Untouched 1080P...


----------



## Shoujiki

Nice Rudy. The setup looks great! Ever though of going a bit larger on the size? Top pics.


----------



## zapper

MP, what movie is your last picture???


----------



## Prehjan

The first Starship Troupers.


Micheal Ironside was great in the original V and Scanners...cult classics!


Let's not forget the last Mrs Sheen (...she looks so "yummy" in this movie!!!)


Martin


----------



## jesusjones

First let me say that everyones screen shots look awsome. And I am not worthy!


And Mr Bob I've always been a fan of your work. And those spray on tans look Spot On.


I've thought of going with a larger screen and I could. But I like using my PJ for 4:3 viewing every now and then. So can't go too much bigger on a 4x8 screen. And space is always an issue. Especially when you are not ceiling mounting.


I got my other screen glued on though. New resolution also. 888x666p Instead of the 16:9 666p. Colors look much better though.

Observe...


----------



## mp20748

Still trying out the PS3.



*Untouched 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jesusjones* /forum/post/17941770
> 
> 
> Observe...



Thanks!


I believe that's Mike Myers ("Shag me, baby!" Right, the original Austin Powers...) on the right, believe it or not -



b


----------



## jesusjones

hahaha It sure is Austin Powers. I found it very funny. As much as he had taken on a serious character. You could see and hear the Fat Bastard slipping out of him


----------



## mp20748

*more totally untouched 1080P into my lowly CRT*


----------



## mp20748

*Saturation lowered only...*


----------



## motoguy

..


----------



## winduptoy

Finally have some time to do some more screenshots. Mike; I'll follow your lead for starters.











































Bob; I know you're using a big Mits RP and your color accuracy looks as good or better than anything in this thread, a testament to your considerable skills as a calibrator.


Here's a few from Coraline...


----------



## zapper

Ok, the pictures are excellent now you have my couorisity, what display did you use to calibrate your system???


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17961010
> 
> 
> 
> Bob; I know you're using a big Mits RP and your color accuracy looks as good or better than anything in this thread, a testament to your considerable skills as a calibrator.



Thanks! It did take awhile and a lot of hair pulling to get that PerfectColor to co-operate. It is definitely not labeled accurately. I had to draw out maps for myself of my Accupel patterns, to really discover what did what in it.


Y'know, I've always said I'll go wherever I am sent a plane ticket for. And on many occasions I've added, "I'd go to Nova Scotia, if they send me a plane ticket!"












b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17961010
> 
> 
> Finally have some time to do some more screenshots. Mike; I'll follow your lead.....



Great, here's few more:


----------



## winduptoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zapper* /forum/post/17961231
> 
> 
> Ok, the pictures are excellent now you have my couorisity, what display did you use to calibrate your system???



Not entirely sure what you mean. Assuming you wanted to ask 'What am I using for a display and what am I using to calibrate it?


Display: G70 (8" LC CRT)


Calibration: Sencore CP5000


Source material: Joe Kane HD Basics on Blu-ray.


Screenshot camera: Canon Powershot A650


Screenshot examples: Star Trek & UP



















Hope this helps.


----------



## lordcloud

Clarence's G90 vs. Kevin's HD-350


----------



## Prehjan

...that is what I have been talking about!


lifeless!!! (...just look at the fleshtone and the white hairs...now look at the fingers and the fingerprints! Gone in the digital shots!!! Plastic really!!!)


the amazing ting is that some folks seem to be hypnotized by these digitals and cannot/refuse to see the difference! (Which is in every CRT shot clear as day!)


Even a crappy ecp does a better job than a 3k "digital"


Defense shields up!!! fire away digital lovers!



Martin


Martin


----------



## lordcloud

I'd love to see a CRT shot of this scene.


PioManiac's Epson











Kevin3000's HD-350


----------



## Kevin 3000

As this has peaked some interest a like for like comparison source wise from my uncalibrated JVC HD-350 (RS10) Digital..


lifeless!!! (......now look at the fingers and the fingerprints! Faded in the CRT shot!!! Half the detail of the digital!!!)


the amazing ting is that some folks seem to be hypnotized by these CRT`s and cannot/refuse to see the difference! (Which is in every DIGITAL shot clear as day when the sources are the SAME!)










DIGITAL









CRT


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/17967203
> 
> 
> As this has peaked some interest a like for like comparison source wise from my uncalibrated JVC HD-350 (RS10) Digital..
> 
> 
> lifeless!!! (......now look at the fingers and the fingerprints! Faded in the CRT shot!!! Half the detail of the digital!!!)
> 
> 
> the amazing ting is that some folks seem to be hypnotized by these CRT`s and cannot/refuse to see the difference! (Which is in every DIGITAL shot clear as day when the sources are the SAME!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DIGITAL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT



I wouldn't go so far as saying digitals are lifeless, just flat in comparison to a calibrated CRT, just like I wojuldn't say the fingerprints are faded or contain half the detail(that's not even close to beign true). The digital shot is smaller, so that helps the digital shot as regards to sharpness.


I also posted your Ice Age shot to illustrate that digital shots can look very nice.


----------



## zapper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17964327
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what you mean. Assuming you wanted to ask 'What am I using for a display and what am I using to calibrate it?
> 
> 
> Display: G70 (8" LC CRT)
> 
> 
> Calibration: Sencore CP5000
> 
> 
> Source material: Joe Kane HD Basics on Blu-ray.
> 
> 
> Screenshot camera: Canon Powershot A650
> 
> 
> Screenshot examples: Star Trek & UP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Sencore that explains the detail and sharp colors of your screenshoots. NICE


----------



## Prehjan

flat they are...maybe I used the wrong term in my excitement!


Apologies


Martin


----------



## nashou66

This film is purposely filmed slightly out of focus or has a lens that makes it look like this, But other fils look much sharper. I just love the colors though out this film.





























Nashou


----------



## Prehjan

Nashou


...great shots as always!


What is the name of this movie?


Martin


----------



## Deja Vu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17965992
> 
> 
> ...that is what I have been talking about!
> 
> 
> lifeless!!! (...just look at the fleshtone and the white hairs...now look at the fingers and the fingerprints! Gone in the digital shots!!! Plastic really!!!)
> 
> 
> the amazing ting is that some folks seem to be hypnotized by these digitals and cannot/refuse to see the difference! (Which is in every CRT shot clear as day!)
> 
> 
> Even a crappy ecp does a better job than a 3k "digital"
> 
> 
> Defense shields up!!! fire away digital lovers!
> 
> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> Martin




I own both; however, since I have far more money into my CRTs my bias should lie there. The truth of the matter is that my digital projectors beat my CRTs in every way except ultimate black levels. They're brighter, throw a bigger image, a snap to set up, sharper (did I say sharper?), often have more depth in every scene except the low APL ones and have frame interpolation which is amazing for animation and concerts. I love the image from a good CRT, but I simply can't deny what I see when I compare the two. My crappy 3K digital eats my G90 with certain content (more content than you'd think) and that's a little tough to live with, but that's how things go. I have no interest in living in denial or the past! I'm simply interested in the image. All these CRT photos look a little soft to me. "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Deja Vu* /forum/post/17972011
> 
> 
> All these CRT photos look a little soft to me. "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"



That's because the cameras can't really capture the sharpness that's seen on the screen, and because the sharpness from a CRT is closer to the natural film image, it's not going to be but so sharp after the camera processing.


OTOH, a digital can look TOO sharp, which is an artificially looking image, because the actual film or original master would not have that look.


I say you post also a few screenshots from your digital, and you see for yourself what happens once they are posted here.


And oh, since a digital is so simple to setup (plug/play), would someone local please bring one to my place so we can do a shoot out..










I don't care if it's a $20k digital, I'll fire my lowly Marquee 9500 up and wax the floor with it.


Please somebody..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## cencio

In my poor hopinion you had do the most important thing and the best work: to lower the saturation. Because you are very locky to have the NTSC television system. In our country and in the Europe we have the PAL system and then it is no possible to work on the saturation.


----------



## Deja Vu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17972135
> 
> 
> That's because the cameras can't really capture the sharpness that's seen on the screen, and because the sharpness from a CRT is closer to the natural film image, it's not going to be but so sharp after the camera processing.
> 
> 
> OTOH, a digital can look TOO sharp, which is an artificially looking image, because the actual film or original master would not have that look.
> 
> 
> I say you post also a few screenshots from your digital, and you see for yourself what happens once they are posted here.
> 
> 
> And oh, since a digital is so simple to setup (plug/play), would someone local please bring one to my place so we can do a shoot out..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if it's a $20k digital, I'll fire my lowly Marquee 9500 up and wax the floor with it.
> 
> 
> Please somebody..



You're right about sharpness of a CRT being closer to what we see off the screen at our local theaters and if you're happy with that then so be it. Interesting that when it comes to sharpness, film like is what we want; however, when it comes to black level we all seem to want more than film like (Why? Because unlike sharpness CRTs can do better than "film like")! Suddenly film like isn't good enough and many here are using gamma correction to go far beyond film like! When we can do better than film like, which CRTs can do with black levels, many of us are happy to do this. When it comes to sharpness we defend film like because our CRTs really aren't capable of presenting anything substantially better. This line of reasoning seems a little contradictory to me.


One other thing. Most of the photos showing darker scenes seem to have a little "black crush".


----------



## Kevin 3000

Deja Vu


I agree with your comments. How about the colours between the two technologys as this is another area where CRTs are said to be superior - oil painting like etc etc. Your impartial unbias opinion is welcomed and appreciated.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Deja Vu* /forum/post/17979512
> 
> 
> You're right about sharpness of a CRT being closer to what we see off the screen at our local theaters and if you're happy with that then so be it. Interesting that when it comes to sharpness, film like is what we want; however, when it comes to black level we all seem to want more than film like (Why? Because unlike sharpness CRTs can do better than "film like")! Suddenly film like isn't good enough and many here are using gamma correction to go far beyond film like! When we can do better than film like, which CRTs can do with black levels, many of us are happy to do this. When it comes to sharpness we defend film like because our CRTs really aren't capable of presenting anything substantially better. *This line of reasoning seems a little contradictory to me.*



Not really, because film like involves more than just proper gamma. Also, being able to do better than film with blacks is just a better capability of the technology, which is totally far and different than getting a sharper image from a non sharper image - which is what usually happens with digitals, unless you do that de-focus thing. But either way, it's still not Natural and film like..











> Quote:
> One other thing. Most of the photos showing darker scenes seem to have a little "black crush".



Well, maybe it's because of the room, which is not completely black, or it's because I don't have gamma tweaks at the time.


But regardless of what it is, that minor problem is nothing compared to everything else it does right.... or should I say like..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/17979634
> 
> 
> Deja Vu
> 
> 
> I agree with your comments. How about the colours between the two technologys as this is another area where CRTs are said to be superior - oil painting like etc etc. Your impartial unbias opinion is welcomed and appreciated.



come on Kev.. his impartial unbias opinion..










And why would you even have to ask this question. Look at the comparison shots in this thread. Or you could post a few shots yourself showing those oil paintings you mention, and when you do so, post something that I can also come back with.


Once we put both images in a comparison, you'll get your questions answered in real time..


----------



## nashou66

Did some CPC work this morning on the left PJ, much sharper Grid lines, this also helped the blend zone on that side. Tomorrow i'll try to work on the right half. Still need to tweak it more as the grids move with focus ramping. Wish there was more room to maneuver the focus coils! Arrggg!!!!


----------



## zapper

Just download the movie and the heck with it>


----------



## overclkr

BIG DOG that is purty.


----------



## mp20748

Spent a good part of the day making a few more changes..










Blu Ray player flaking out on me, but I was still able to get a few shops in...




*1920x1080P into my Hot Rod 9500LC..







*


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17972135
> 
> 
> 
> And oh, since a digital is so simple to setup (plug/play), would someone local please bring one to my place so we can do a shoot out..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if it's a $20k digital, I'll fire my lowly Marquee 9500 up and wax the floor with it.
> 
> 
> Please somebody..



Please indeed...


Mike, I don't even think that there is a need to even have a shootout...I feel that we all know what the outcome is going to be!


Martin


----------



## winduptoy

Mike;


The color uniformity in that overscan chart is su-bleeping-perb! I'm 18% grey with envy. (Circles are still not round though.) Do your red and green have corrected C elements?


----------



## zapper

It seems that the shootout is beetwen 2 individuals, how good is that. my 2 cents.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zapper* /forum/post/17990043
> 
> 
> It seems that the shootout is beetwen 2 individuals, how good is that. my 2 cents.



Do you mean it is between two different technologies/devices or two just different individuals?


...also why should that be a problem, in regards to you 2 cents thing!


Martin


----------



## zapper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17989315
> 
> 
> Please indeed...
> 
> 
> Mike, I don't even think that there is a need to even have a shootout...I feel that we all know what the outcome is going to be!
> 
> 
> Martin



I am agreament with your above comments.


----------



## nashou66

Mike those changes you made rally helped you last screen shots, I think those might be the first changes i'll make to my longbows. i bet that is where lots of noise for my astig and CMM problems are coming from. I think i'll do the same test you did and scope the CMM for those pesky lines I cant fully get rid of.


Well some screen shots from my still not fully tweaked out Blend: repost form curts:


Just watched this movie tonight, Awesome Movie!! Cliff would Love it! Any one know what it is?




















































I moved the cam on the last one while it was snapping, oops











Mike those last shots look nice, i see what those _last_ changes can do!


Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000

I know how you all like comparisons so here you are...


JVC HD-350 low end Uncalibrated Digital model..Not even a 550 or 750 or 950 or 990 just a lowly 350







Flak jacket at the ready









Patriot










CRT high end calibrated..


----------



## jherring69

Boondock Saints


Jason


----------



## Alan Gouger

nashou66 the richness and colors in those screen caps are popping. Looks great.


Kevin what CRT is being used in that second cap. I prefer it to the digital image. Other then a little gamma thing going on ( his ear shows a little red due to low gamma to bring out detail ) to me the CRT image is more film like to my preference.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/17991783
> 
> 
> nashou66 the richness and colors in those screen caps are popping. Looks great.
> 
> 
> Kevin what CRT is being used in that second cap. I prefer it to the digital image. Other then a little gamma thing going on ( his ear shows a little red due to low gamma to bring out detail ) to me the CRT image is more film like to my preference.




CINE 9 i think grabbed them off page 29 of this thread....


----------



## zapper

That is weird I prefer the uncalibrated picture, it show his 5 oclock shadow it looks more realistic to me anyway's.


----------



## Deja Vu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/17989315
> 
> 
> Please indeed...
> 
> 
> Mike, I don't even think that there is a need to even have a shootout...I feel that we all know what the outcome is going to be!
> 
> 
> Martin



Tell that to AS or CW! These guys used to support CRT to the nth degree. Where are they now? Watching their digital projectors, that's where.










Personally I don't feel digital projectors are artificially sharp; however, CRT projectors are artificially soft. Why? Well, after my G90's tubes are focused tight I then go into the service menu and hit "defocus blue tube" so I can obtain a more accurate grey scale. Now I'm watching a projector with one tube slightly defocused. I would think that would effect overall sharpness somewhat!


I'll see what I can do about getting some screen shots from both systems. Just because I feel the newer digitals do a great job doesn't mean I don't love the image thrown by my CRT projectors. I feel very fortunate to be in a position to evaluate and enjoy both.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/17989790
> 
> 
> Mike;
> 
> 
> The color uniformity in that overscan chart is su-bleeping-perb! I'm 18% grey with envy. (Circles are still not round though.) Do your red and green have corrected C elements?



The geometry will remain basic until I replace the screen. And when that happens I'll also install the RED C element that was giving to me a few weeks ago as a late Christmas present.


So for now, I only have the stock green C element that came with the projector.


----------



## Kevin 3000

Some more comparisons.......


CRT G90 stack









JVC HD-350









CRT G90 stack









JVC HD-350









CRT G90 stack









JVC HD-350









JVC HD-350


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/17991683
> 
> 
> CRT high end calibrated..



What movie is this?


----------



## zapper

I think Braveheart?????


----------



## overclkr

Time to fire up the stack.


----------



## overclkr

7000 hour G90 Stack:


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliff


----------



## nashou66

Cliffster!!!!!!! Always Love your Shots!!! God its about time the originator of the tread added some new life to it!! Mike and I were getting Bored !!











Nashou!!!!!!


----------



## mp20748

Welcome back to the thread Cliff, this thread has been almost lifeless without you..










There's always something special about your shots. And to be able to do what you're now doing in these shots without gamma tweaks is a real testament to Ken's work.


yes, it gets really boring 'round here without you. Glad you're back and that we now have some real life back in this thread..


Great shots!


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17993766
> 
> 
> What movie is this?



It is shown on the top of the pic - Patriot 35.47 mins in....


Looks like some Star Trek comparisons next time


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zapper* /forum/post/17993821
> 
> 
> I think Braveheart?????



No...that is the patriot


Martin


----------



## zapper

Sorry, about that.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/17994314
> 
> 
> Cliffster!!!!!!! Always Love your Shots!!! God its about time the originator of the tread added some new life to it!! Mike and I were getting Bored !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou!!!!!!



Thanks bro. I need to get my ass back into the fray again fo sho. Been a while.










I want to use my new Nikon D5000 camera but so far I'm having a real hard time with it because it is very sensitive to 60hz (rolling bars), so back to the old Kodak I go for now.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/17994364
> 
> 
> Welcome back to the thread Cliff, this thread has been almost lifeless without you..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's always something special about your shots. And to be able to do what you're now doing in these shots without gamma tweaks is a real testament to Ken's work.
> 
> 
> yes, it gets really boring 'round here without you. Glad you're back and that we now have some real life back in this thread..
> 
> 
> Great shots!



Stop suckin' up to me Mike. I'm coming back at you hard and strong now bro.































In all truth, it's thanks to guys like you that keep the hobby alive.










Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66

Ok did the CPC mags on the right PJ, next is to tweak out the Schiemflug . Then work on the CMM cards so the vertical bars are not there.


But here is a few for now, I want to see some Aeon Flux from your Stack Cliffster!!!
















































Athanasios


----------



## kypha




----------



## imprez25

My lowly lowly lowly lowly......1251q

TFE on Bluray at 1080i


----------



## imprez25




----------



## nashou66

i always love your shots from that 1251 !!!!


Nashou


----------



## imprez25

Thanks! I just got TFE on bluray, so I thought I would take some shots of it. For some reason the images seem to have a blue shift over what is on the screen. That's what I get for using a point and shoot.


----------



## SteveMo

XG CRT










BenQ W5000 digital










1251q SD-DVD










triple stack CRT










BenQ W5000 digital


----------



## imprez25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18006316
> 
> 
> XG CRT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenQ W5000 digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1251q SD-DVD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> triple stack CRT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenQ W5000 digital



I changed the 1251q SD-DVD image to the one that didn't have the wrong white balance on my camera. I think it looks better. Keep in mind that my 1251 cost me $50, and I'm projecting it at 111" wide on a 2.40 CIH screen










Thanks for at least comparing my low end machine to the others. Now I must justify making a new projector purchase.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imprez25* /forum/post/18006584
> 
> 
> I changed the 1251q SD-DVD image to the one that didn't have the wrong white balance on my camera. I think it looks better. Keep in mind that my 1251 cost me $50, and I'm projecting it at 111" wide on a 2.40 CIH screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for at least comparing my low end machine to the others. Now I must justify making a new projector purchase.



Your welcome. My projector was a refurb and cost near the same price as my HTPC, which was on sale at the time. The cost of my calibration and the camera cost almost as much as my projector.


----------



## Kevin 3000

A couple more comparisons for amusement......


JVC HD-350









CINE 9 CRT









JVC HD-350









CINE 9 CRT









JVC HD-350


----------



## mp20748




----------



## SteveMo

This shot seems popular with the other digitals.











A couple more.


----------



## VPH-G90

ok, Sony G90 817p72 with focus electro magnetic optimized



























































































































































[imghttp:// img22.imageshack.us/img22/4655/img42891200.jpg][/img ]


----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18011213



I know!! this one is my fave, I posted the same thing on Curts!!!











Nashou


----------



## jesusjones

Imprez your 1251 shots are AMAZING.....Why wont my 1272 look that good











And those g90 shots of Cars are just unreal....Unreal I Say!!


good job guys.


----------



## winduptoy

Cedric;

Amazing 'Cars' shots! Great setup job!


Cliff;

Absolutely Humungus! Welcome back.

_I am humbled. I'll keep posting when time allows, but I can't touch that._


-toy


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## imprez25

VPH-G90- those Cars shots are unreal. They don't look like an animated movie at all. I don't ever remember seeing that movie look that clear. WOW! well done!


JesusJones- Thanks! I have spent alot of time tweaking my focus and getting it about as good as it is ever going to get. I still need to set gray scale. I think one major advantage for my 1251 is that it is (or at least was) a low hour unit. I also upgraded it with 21 point convergance cards out of a 1272q. I also have gamma control with the box1040, that alone was a huge improvement in image quality.


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000


----------



## Prehjan

Great shots


Even the digitals are nicely done!


Martin


----------



## Kevin 3000

Couple more quick comparison snaps


CRT G90










JVC HD-350










CRT G90










JVC HD-350


----------



## VPH-G90

Please if you want compare can you do this in 1200 px (width) ?


----------



## Kevin 3000

A couple more comaprisons at around 1200 pixels wide.


JVC HD-350










CRT G90










JVC HD-350










CRT G90


----------



## Prehjan

Those are some sweet G90 shots! (Sorry can't say the same about the 350! It lacks the blacks and it seems to be a little less sharp!)


...but again that is probably my own eyes and brain telling me that! (...apologies to the digital folks!)


Martin


----------



## Kevin 3000

Check out the shaprness levels........


LCD Z3000 -Thinking of getting an eyetest....










JVC HD-350 - Needing an eyetest...










CRT G90 - Needing an operation...


----------



## winduptoy

Looks like the 350 came in last on that one. What's an LCD Z3000? A little flat, but it sure is sharp. Kevin, do you have any edge enhancement or 'Auto' stuff on on your PJ? It should be able to resolve fine detail better than that. Also, It would certainly benefit from being calibrated. Highlights look green and it doesn't look like you have whites. (Contrast too low)


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18039363
> 
> 
> Looks like the 350 came in last on that one. What's an LCD Z3000? A little flat, but it sure is sharp. Kevin, do you have any edge enhancement or 'Auto' stuff on on your PJ? It should be able to resolve fine detail better than that. Also, It would certainly benefit from being calibrated. Highlights look green and it doesn't look like you have whites. (Contrast too low)



Yes well spotted enhancements were on testing them out. If i calibrate this machine and post pics what will you all do, upgrade your CRTs to a Digital







That green Cars pic is testing my uncalibrated machine tried to compensate with a custom white balance - poor effort - but that LCD is SHARP imagine what the LED DLP is like...I must save hard......


----------



## VPH-G90

thank you kevin but my digital camera is just 5 mega... the digital camera's totolarico (christophe) is better than mine. my screen is without sharness but i can try with sharness on pioneer lx91 end crystalio II


----------



## VPH-G90

kevin why did you remove your photos jvc 350 a side of G90?


----------



## flaviomartins

Please, How i can take this photos with my SLR nikon D-80, what kind of program, iso aperture, etc....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18040597
> 
> 
> Yes well spotted enhancements were on testing them out. *If i calibrate this machine and post pics what will you all do, upgrade your CRTs to a Digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * That green Cars pic is testing my uncalibrated machine tried to compensate with a custom white balance - poor effort - but that LCD is SHARP imagine what the LED DLP is like...I must save hard......




Well, my Blu ray is still not playing most of my disk, So I can only post a few shots from very familiar disk. And reading that above i had to jump in here with something.


Kevin, I'd rather not do computer generated shots, so if you could also post the two I have below, I'm sure I'll be able to prove to you that you haven't resented anything that could give reason to upgrade to digital..


----------



## zapper

mp20748, excellent shot the first picture felt like I was there. what display do you have great picture.


----------



## VPH-G90

Ok kevin



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin 3000* /forum/post/18036847
> 
> 
> check out the shaprness levels........
> 
> 
> Lcd z3000 -thinking of getting an eyetest....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sony g90 with sharness*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jvc hd-350 - needing an eyetest...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> crt g90 - needing an operation...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zapper* /forum/post/18042735
> 
> 
> mp20748, excellent shot the first picture felt like I was there. what display do you have great picture.



It's a Marquee 9500LC Ultra that has a few added tweaks done to it. It's really gotten better within the past week.


----------



## mp20748

Oh, let me try and get back to actual film like like stuff..










Un-touched - not software enhanced or sharpened!


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18042678
> 
> 
> Well, my Blu ray is still not playing most of my disk, So I can only post a few shots from very familiar disk. And reading that above i had to jump in here with something.
> 
> 
> Kevin, I'd rather not do computer generated shots, so if you could also post the two I have below, I'm sure I'll be able to prove to you that you haven't resented anything that could give reason to upgrade to digital..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]



Still not convinced need more proof.....VPH-G90 nice try but no camera shooting details in your sharpened shot so could have been added by software.


JVC HD-350 0 sharpness set











CRT modded 9500 super ultra









CRT modded 9500 super ultra










JVC HD-350 0 sharpness set


----------



## mp20748

Great, I'm glad you took me up on those two shots.... which btw, are computer generated. And digitals do extremely well with those kind of shots...


Now that you're on board, follow me further and give me the last shots I recently posted.


And I notice that you somehow always photoshop your shts to match the comparison shots. Could you just capture the shots and post them they way you shot them without doing anything to them?


Oh, and be mindful whenever you add sharpness, it's easy to tell.


I'm waiting on the next comparison..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18045173
> 
> 
> Great, I'm glad you took me up on those two shots.... which btw, are computer generated. And digitals do extremely well with those kind of shots...
> 
> 
> Now that you're on board, follow me further and give me the last shots I recently posted.
> 
> 
> And I notice that you somehow always photoshop your shts to match the comparison shots. Could you just capture the shots and post them they way you shot them without doing anything to them?
> 
> 
> Oh, and be mindful whenever you add sharpness, it's easy to tell.
> 
> 
> I'm waiting on the next comparison..



Round 1 to DIGITAL........























OK Obi-Wan photoshop is used only to resize as these pics are 4752x3168







Will try at the lowest res 2500x2300odd later.

If any other JVC owners would like to post their stuff please do, not enought newer calibrated pics posted..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18045218
> 
> 
> Round 1 to DIGITAL........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK Obi-Wan photoshop is used only to resize as these pics are 4752x3168
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will try at the lowest res 2500x2300odd later.
> 
> If any other JVC owners would like to post their stuff please do, not enought newer calibrated pics posted..




Hey Kev, don't forget that we already know you're the governor of sharpening..










And also remember that those shots you took of the 5th Element, no way would they have those colors...... check back through your shots, where sometime back you've posted those same two shots, and how flat they were. But we know, you had to work really hard to make that happen, and if somehow you did get to make your JVC do those colors, just check out the other JVC's on the pixel forum and do an eyeball comparison. You would be very proud of yourself to be able to get CRT colors STRAIGHT from your digital.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...FE5-crop_1.jpg 


Check out your colors over on the digital forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...nshots&page=68


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18045147
> 
> 
> Still not convinced need more proof.....VPH-G90 nice try but no camera shooting details in your sharpened shot so could have been added by software.
> 
> ....



kevin, I think you insinuating that I am dishonest in suggesting that I edit the photo with software! That is completely false!

I note you have removed your picture from the top of the page because they were worse than mine ... Not very honest of you.

As you said mike parker colorimetry your jvc 350 is not good, you should make a precise calibration.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18045234
> 
> 
> Hey Kev, don't forget that we already know you're the governor of sharpening..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also remember that those shots you took of the 5th Element, no way would they have those colors...... check back through your shots, where sometime back you've posted those same two shots, and how flat they were. But we know, you had to work really hard to make that happen, and if somehow you did get to make your JVC do those colors, just check out the other JVC's on the pixel forum and do an eyeball comparison. You would be very proud of yourself to be able to get CRT colors STRAIGHT from your digital.
> 
> 
> Check out your colors over on the digital forum:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...nshots&page=68



You are not wrong, i look at THX mode, screengrabs other peoples pics and try to judge whats right a learning process which i am starting to pick up. My colours are adjusted only by the saturation control on the PJ this is why i am here trying to evaluate these so called super CRT images whuch are not showing up in the pics posted, if my machine was calibrated then the colour saturation would be consistent and correct but in the meantime if the waters too hot you know what to do


----------



## VPH-G90

Mike, what is the value of your gamma ?

If you want a picture more sharpned you must to have the CRT's gamma at 2.45 !

There will be more dynamic in your picture.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18045279
> 
> 
> kevin, I think you insinuating that I am dishonest in suggesting that I edit the photo with software! That is completely false!
> 
> I note you have removed your picture from the top of the page because they were worse than mine ... Not very honest of you.
> 
> As you said mike parker colorimetry your jvc 350 is not good, you should make a precise calibration.



My pics are still at the top of this page?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18045314
> 
> 
> Mike, what is the value of your gamma ?
> 
> If you want a picture more sharpned you must to have the CRT's gamma at 2.45 !
> 
> There will be more dynamic in your picture.



I'm glad you pointed this out. Now if you can post the same images, and do so without adding sharpness, then I'll get a better idea of what you're talking about.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18045304
> 
> 
> You are not wrong, i look at THX mode, screengrabs other peoples pics and try to judge whats right a learning process which i am starting to pick up. My colours are adjusted only by the saturation control on the PJ this is why i am here trying to evaluate these so called super CRT images whuch are not showing up in the pics posted, if my machine was calibrated then the colour saturation would be consistent and correct but in the meantime if the waters too hot you know what to do



This is very interesting Keven, you admit to manipulating your images and at the same time claim victory as being the best..










What's to learn!? You have an un-calibrated digital that you refuse to have calibrated. You then modify and adjust your shots to match and exceed others shots...


But you keep forgetting, you've already posted over in the digital forum, so the reference is already out there.......and even the over sharpnening cannot be hidden..


----------



## VPH-G90

Kevin we can't see your screen


JVC HD-350
http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/ph/O...XLy2ow0pna.jpg 


http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/ph/O...XLy2ow0pna.jpg 


A few weeks ago I organized a meeting with the owner of JVC digital projectors marantz sony.

All were unanimous. The Sony G90 was superior!

I do a lot of calibration on JVC 350/550/750/950, sony vw85, marantz SP11 in France ...

I affirm that the Sony G90 is better than on many other criteria except for the size of the device and the time it takes to settle. For these last 2 points he loses.

The JVC 350 is a very good machine but it does not play in the same short as the Sony G90, barco cine9/909, marked 9500 ... It is a fact proven by direct and by several people.

Stay credible! Do not make the mistake of judging 2 screenshots interposed technologies, it is not scientific conditions to give tangible results.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18045346
> 
> 
> This is very interesting Keven, you admit to manipulating your images and at the same time claim victory as being the best..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's to learn!? You have an un-calibrated digital that you refuse to have calibrated. You then modify and adjust your shots to match and exceed others shots...
> 
> 
> But you keep forgetting, you've already posted over in the digital forum, so the reference is already out there.......and even the over sharpnening cannot be hidden..



If you class colour saturation control as an unfair advantage whats to stop you doing the same and showing us these oil painting - more vibrant CRT images? nothing proof is in the pics....I watch TV with oversaturated colours my preference as i do with my films so whats your point getting sidetracked here digitals are capable of vibrant colours...


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18045381
> 
> 
> Kevin we can't see your screen
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/ph/O...XLy2ow0pna.jpg
> 
> 
> http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/ph/O...XLy2ow0pna.jpg
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago I organized a meeting with the owner of JVC digital projectors marantz sony.
> 
> All were unanimous. The Sony G90 was superior!
> 
> I do a lot of calibration on JVC 350/550/750/950, sony vw85, marantz SP11 in France ...
> 
> I affirm that the Sony G90 is better than on many other criteria except for the size of the device and the time it takes to settle. For these last 2 points he loses.
> 
> The JVC 350 is a very good machine but it does not play in the same short as the Sony G90, barco cine9/909, marked 9500 ... It is a fact proven by direct and by several people.
> 
> Stay credible! Do not make the mistake of judging 2 screenshots interposed technologies, it is not scientific conditions to give tangible results.



So whats all this about?


DeJa Vu wrote this his other PJ is an Epson 9500ub Digital...


"I own both; however, since I have far more money into my CRTs my bias should lie there. The truth of the matter is that my digital projectors beat my CRTs in every way except ultimate black levels. They're brighter, throw a bigger image, a snap to set up, sharper (did I say sharper?), often have more depth in every scene except the low APL ones and have frame interpolation which is amazing for animation and concerts. I love the image from a good CRT, but I simply can't deny what I see when I compare the two. My crappy 3K digital eats my G90 with certain content (more content than you'd think) and that's a little tough to live with, but that's how things go. I have no interest in living in denial or the past! I'm simply interested in the image. All these CRT photos look a little soft to me. "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"


----------



## VPH-G90

Something vital is forgotten! We must learn to optimize a CRT projector! The person who speaks of his G90 failed Otpimisation the best for sure! No lie when I see a digital projector higher than the G90 it will come down from my ceiling. I work a lot with digital projectors. You probably haven't seen a CRT projector optimized for the best.


----------



## Deja Vu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18045613
> 
> 
> Something vital is forgotten! We must learn to optimize a CRT projector! The person who speaks of his G90 failed Otpimisation the best for sure! No lie when I see a digital projector higher than the G90 it will come down from my ceiling. I work a lot with digital projectors. You probably haven't seen a CRT projector optimized for the best.



My G90 is optimized and it looks amazing - extremely sharp for a CRT (bests the images I've seen here for both sharpness and shadow detail) and is gamma corrected and has a filter on the green tube to tame that tube. The person who helps me with it is a regular on this forum and has bought and sold and set up umpteen CRT projectors over the years - he claims my G90 produces the best image he's seen from a CRT. He prefers to stay out of the arguing, and I don't blame him. He also helped me calibrate my Epson 9500UB (I use Vivid mode with two external filters for a brighter image with more contrast) with his colorimeter. He readily admits the Epson is sharper, and it is, but so what? It is not so much sharper that I'm throwing my G90 away. The Epson is also brighter, but there's a downside and that's more visible image noise. Yesterday I watched the last three chapters of "This is it!" on both and although it did look somewhat different on each projector it looked very, very good on each. The G90 has a very smooth clean image with incredible black levels, while the Epson has a more in your face punchy, sharp, bright image. The interesting thing about the Epson is its frame interpolation, Although I don't like using it for live action movies I do use it for animation and music concerts - it makes animation look extremely 3D and with concerts like "Shine a Light" you almost think you're on stage with the Stones - more facial information about Keith Richards than you really need or want. The G90 is a main stay - it'll form part of my estate! I'm somewhat of an equipment junkie so I'll probably have many more digital projectors which I'll just pass down to my adult children when I'm finished with them - I feel very fortunate to have the time and finances to play with both.


The comments about my G90 not being set up properly are interesting because it is a good point. I've seen a number of CRT projectors in action, besides my own (G90 and Marquee 8500LC) and I personally prefer the image mine produce. The same can be said for digital! Digital is easy to set up, but much more difficult to wring great performance out of. If you see a very good digital that hasn't been optimized it is easy to think that digital hasn't arrived yet. I could now live with digital if all CRTs for some reason failed. I don't think I'm alone. I've noticed over the last few years that some of CRTs stanchest supporters have quietly left this section of the forum and you'll now see their comments on JVC digital projector threads or over on the $20,000 or greater section - so these guys suddenly don't know what they're talking about because they've gone digital? If CRT is your thing you won't have a problem with me because I'm on board. If digital is your thing, well you won't have a problem with me either, because I'm also on board. Some, not all, of you guys need to move past the "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil" attitude. Relax and enjoy what you have since we never know when our visitor's visa to planet earth may expire.


----------



## VPH-G90

Your answer is much more constructive approach to Kevin3000.

It is normal to follow the business logic and evolution of technology and you are absolutely right. Without doubt we do not have the same requirements for image rendering but more importantly to be happy in our passion.

The only digital projector that impressed me (except for black) is the panasonic DZ12000 (2k) which has a very efficient approach.

I class and often installed digital projectors and yet no less than 20,000 euros not convinced me. The most important thing for me is the density of images with strong dynamics, a high contrast image within a linear gamma that can be placed at 2.45, 3D effects are very pronounced and black absolute 0IRE while retaining detail in the dark images (very important for me).

The CRT is still the best performance current price but it is used, not really guaranteed (except Curt palm?) And difficult to put oneself in Artwork.

Best regards


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC HD-350 NO sharpening NO resizing as Obi-Wan requested for a fair comparison









JVC HD-350









CRT Modded 9500 Super Ultra









JVC









JVC


----------



## VPH-G90

ok mike my screenshots in 1920X817p72 pixel clock 133.8 Mhz


without sharpness











with sharpness












without sharpness












with sharpness


----------



## Kevin 3000

So no objections listed must be ROUND 2 to the DIGITAL


----------



## VPH-G90

.. ?? Your screen kevin, with mine ? lol


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18051948
> 
> 
> .. ?? Your screen kevin, with mine ? lol



No! your pics are .PNG files with no camera shooting details which could have been changed in software, just post pics as the camera takes them no need to alter images if your G90 is as good as you think


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18052009
> 
> 
> No! your pics are .PNG files with no camera shooting details which could have been changed in software, just post pics as the camera takes them no need to alter images if your G90 is as good as you think



Good point.



I still can tell when sharpening has been done, it just that it's hard to tell when other things have also been done to a shot.


where's that software that allows you to look at the camera details?


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18052044
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> I still can tell when sharpening has been done, it just that it's hard to tell when other things have also been done to a shot.
> 
> 
> where's that software that allows you to look at the camera details?



I just save a pic right click on it to properties and click the details tab in the box that opened...There is an app about that tests for software alterations someone else may have a link?


----------



## mp20748

Dang, I had forgot that I made some very substantial changes the other day and forgot to readjust the focus after those changes. So I spent some time this morning tightening up the focus. Was able to do very well with BLUE and RED, but found that I was not able to get the GREEN as tight as the RED and BLUE.


Anyway, I won't be able to deal with the green for now, so I've shot a few more shots with the GREEN not as good anyway.



*1080P - 100% Un-touched w/green focus issue*


----------



## mp20748

Hey Kev!


can you give me one of these:


Oh, I forgot to mention, they are 100% Un-touched!


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18052009
> 
> 
> No! your pics are .PNG files with no camera shooting details which could have been changed in software, just post pics as the camera takes them no need to alter images if your G90 is as good as you think



Kevin you're annoying !

No problem for me, this is JPEG ! before the screenshots were un-touched !

Now they are always un-touched and not resize.


without sharpness












with sharness












without sharpness












with sharness


----------



## mp20748

Do these instead.


They are native 1080P Un-touched!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Kevin 3000

Here you go mp20748...Un touched only FREE photobucket has resized when uploaded...


JVC HD-350









CRT 9500 Super Ultra









JVC HD-350









CRT 9500 Super Ultra









JVC HD-350


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000 - Jennifer's Body - 3000+ hours lamp calibration


----------



## SteveMo

Look at the saturation in the dark scenes.


----------



## Kevin 3000

CRT G90 - VPH-G90s with sharpness - Is yours calibrated colours look off...









JVC HD-350 with sharpness not calibrated...


----------



## WTS

Now you can't tell me that the 350 looks better than the G90 in the previous two pictures of batman!


----------



## VPH-G90

That's right the JVC is out.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18052073
> 
> 
> I just save a pic right click on it to properties and click the details tab in the box that opened...There is an app about that tests for software alterations someone else may have a link?


 http://www.impulseadventure.com/phot....html#download 


G90 example - Total number of codes: 035 - Mostly 10-bit

Number of RESTART markers decoded: 0

Brightest Pixel Search:

YCC=[ 1017, 0, 0] RGB=[255,255,255] @ MCU[ 32, 19]


JVC HD-350 example - Total number of codes: 044 - Mostly 9-bit

Number of RESTART markers decoded: 0

Brightest Pixel Search:

YCC=[ 846, 21, 3] RGB=[233,232,236] @ MCU[ 31, 13]


BenQ W5000 example - Total number of codes: 052 - Mostly 14-bit

Number of RESTART markers decoded: 0

Brightest Pixel Search:

YCC=[ 723, 34, -30] RGB=[212,219,225] @ MCU[ 85, 49]


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wts* /forum/post/18063588
> 
> 
> now you can't tell me that the 350 looks better than the g90 in the previous two pictures of batman!



Just checking LOL


----------



## Kevin 3000

Couple more comparisons.........


VPH-G90 un sharpened CRT










JVC HD-350 Un sharpened










VPH-G90 sharpened CRT










JVC HD-350 Sharpened


----------



## Prehjan

Kevin these G90 pics are absolutely dead on!


Great job


Martin


----------



## techman707

Hey Mike,


Do you think this scene has enough gamma?


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18089888
> 
> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> 
> Do you think this scene has enough gamma?



Techman


...forgot about Sharon Stone (...yeah she's got more than enough "gamma"!!!


...that girl from the transformers movie has such nice lips. (...amongs other things!)



Martin


----------



## techman707

If your gamma correction isn't set right, you would just be looking into a black hole







(no pun intended).


----------



## Prehjan

hehehe


Martin


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18091718
> 
> 
> hehehe
> 
> 
> Martin



As the saying goes......."Shave and a haircut, two bits".


----------



## Prehjan

...and shaved it seems to be!


Martin


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000 - 8ft High Power screen


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18089888
> 
> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> 
> Do you think this scene has enough gamma?



Yeah Bruce, but it's too much gamma..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18089888
> 
> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> 
> Do you think this scene has enough gamma?


----------



## mp20748

I had to do something about that low end problem... Now fixed, and still not using any gamma boost or tweaking, I'm now able to capture shots that was not possible before.


These are 100% Un-touched shots right from the camera:

*1080P into my Super 9500LC*


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18092351
> 
> 
> Yeah Bruce, but it's too much gamma..



.

.

That's my gamma test scene, you either see it or you don't.










While you say:

*It's all about performance.. Got Marquee?*


I say:

*With Viagra, it's all about performance.. Got Snatch?*


But I'm like Fox, "Fair and Balanced", so I need yo know what Cliffy has to say?









.

.


----------



## mp20748

Yo Kevin, I have a few here for you...

*1080P - UN -Touched - Raw - As Is - NOT Sharpened*


----------



## techman707

Mike,


These last posts are some of the best looking ones yet.










What picture is it?


----------



## Kevin 3000

All UNsharpened untouched..........


JVC HD-350










CRT Super Modded 9500










JVC HD-350










CRT Super Modded 9500










JVC HD-350


----------



## mp20748

*More Untouched 1080P*


----------



## zapper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18101879
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> These last posts are some of the best looking ones yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What picture is it?



The last 2 pictures are from the 5th Element.


----------



## mp20748

Nice trick Kevin. Not only are your shots touched-up, you've also downsized mine and they no longer look like the originals..


----------



## SteveMo

CRT Super Modded 9500









*7.5 IRE* modded BenQ W5000 - isf day


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18105668
> 
> *7.5 IRE* modded BenQ W5000 - isf day



Now that was truly a fine modification there Steve..










I would have done the same thing, but when doing Untouched shots, it's best to leave them as they are - otherwise, they would not be UNTOUCHED..










I can also add tons of sharpness, much like what you've also done, but naw... How natural and true to the real thing would it be if I did so?


And how much of the original would I be able to capture with a 4 year old cheap camera? So I'm not trying to create something from nothing, I'm just placing the camera on the tripod and pressing a button -- simple as that!


But hey, I'm really liking it when you go through all you do to try and make it better.


Especially all the sharpening.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18105866
> 
> 
> Now that was truly a fine modification there Steve..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would have done the same thing, but when doing Untouched shots, it's best to leave them as they are - otherwise, they would not be UNTOUCHED..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can also add tons of sharpness, much like what you've also done, but naw... How natural and true to the real thing would it be if I did so?
> 
> 
> And how much of the original would I be able to capture with a 4 year old cheap camera? So I'm not trying to create something from nothing, I'm just placing the camera on the tripod and pressing a button -- simple as that!
> 
> 
> But hey, I'm really liking it when you go through all you do to try and make it better.
> 
> 
> Especially all the sharpening.



I haven't used custom post processing since last year, but if I did, I wouldn't be using 7.5 IRE. 7.5 IRE doesn't like expanding levels since there are more few. I just figured people knew that already.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18104261
> 
> 
> Nice trick Kevin. Not only are your shots touched-up, you've also downsized mine and they no longer look like the originals..



My proof is in my shots i photograph what i see onscreen colours may be a bit out - uncalibrated - only resized yours to give a fair comparison you can do the same to mine. I would expect a lot better from a CRT though having tons more contrast, saturated colours maybe your CRT is so modded you have mucked it up? Then again all the pics on this site are about the same so maybe thats as good CRTs get


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18106242
> 
> 
> Then again all the pics on this site are about the same so maybe thats as good CRTs get



Man, you guys are so comical..LOL!


Maybe one day we're be able to beat out the shots both you Steve keep posting..


----------



## mp20748

Oh well, I'll post a few more shots from my Super 9500LC taking with my lowly digital camera..










Hey guys, I did these in the size you like. I even put a special one in there for Keven..











*1080P - UN-Touched and NOT sharpened*










__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## mp20748

*UNtouched 1080P*


----------



## plain fan

Well I know I'm going to get some heat for this statement but I'm going to make it anyway. I've been a long time CRT fan and I've got a Barco 800G running 720p. Well tonight I stopped in and looked at the new Sony SXRD and JVC HD 350 to see how they performed in real life versus what I've seen in this thread. And I'm going to say it the digitals are getting close. Are they as good as the pictures that Mike just posted, no but for the average user they are as good or good enough. My new house may not be compatible with a CRT projector so I've been reading up on the digitals and they are approaching the CRT but they haven't yet gotten to the point of a super modded, tweaked to perfection CRT.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18105866
> 
> 
> Now that was truly a fine modification there Steve..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would have done the same thing, but when doing Untouched shots, it's best to leave them as they are - otherwise, they would not be UNTOUCHED..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can also add tons of sharpness, much like what you've also done, but naw... How natural and true to the real thing would it be if I did so?
> 
> 
> And how much of the original would I be able to capture with a 4 year old cheap camera? So I'm not trying to create something from nothing, I'm just placing the camera on the tripod and pressing a button -- simple as that!
> 
> 
> But hey, I'm really liking it when you go through all you do to try and make it better.
> 
> 
> Especially all the sharpening.




Mike,


Look at the last picture in post #4030. I don't think that's retouched. Although it has a lot of detail boost (which can probably be done in the projector or processor), why would ANYONE who was correcting the image leave the worst color I've ever seen.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18105668
> 
> 
> *7.5 IRE* modded BenQ W5000 - isf day



AHHHHH!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!!!!


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18112579
> 
> 
> AHHHHH!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!!!!



Quick, wash them out!


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18112579
> 
> 
> AHHHHH!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!!!!


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18112824
> 
> 
> Quick, wash them out!



Ok, I think I'm better now.


----------



## nashou66

Now thats what I'm talking about Cliffster!!!!!!!! WOW!!!


Nashou


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18112978
> 
> 
> Ok, I think I'm better now.




My eyes feel better too.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/18112007
> 
> 
> Well I know I'm going to get some heat for this statement but I'm going to make it anyway. I've been a long time CRT fan and I've got a Barco 800G running 720p. Well tonight I stopped in and looked at the new Sony SXRD and JVC HD 350 to see how they performed in real life versus what I've seen in this thread. And I'm going to say it the digitals are getting close. Are they as good as the pictures that Mike just posted, no but for the average user they are as good or good enough. My new house may not be compatible with a CRT projector so I've been reading up on the digitals and they are approaching the CRT but they haven't yet gotten to the point of a super modded, tweaked to perfection CRT.



Just curious although this has nothing todo with a Screenshots War thread









How were they setup? Viewed in a Bat Cave - Screen type - calibrated to Rec 709? Did you try other gamma settings in High lamp mode? The JVC HD-350 has half the contrast of the HD-750 and the HD-950. We all take a hit on our screenshots compared to what we see onscreen but when i compare my shots with CRTs i see little diffferences with my JVC HD-350, so i am a bit puzzled by your comments? Are you saying CRT screenshots mimic what you are seeing onscreen in real life? Also check out the new LED Digital projectors.....









*JVC HD-350 0 sharpness set*










*CRT modded 9500 super ultra*










*CRT modded 9500 super ultra*










*JVC HD-350 0 sharpness set*


----------



## mp20748

Come on Kevin, you're so bent on comparisons. And your last comparisons are not accurate. Those shots are Not from my "Super 9500LC"


And one other thing, the last group of shots I'll do over later today. They were all taking with a blown focus module... Yep, I found that out this morning. I kept wondering why the other edges were out of focus, and check the projector, and there it was - my focus board died..










Anyway, I have another one..










So get back to me later today and I'll redo those same shots, but don't get them mixed up with previous shots from now on, they will be from my "Super 9500LC"


And yes, it's OK to compare the sharpness..











Still can't figure out how recent shots ths past two months looks so similar in colors to my shot, but when looking at your shots on the pixel forum, they look just like the other pixel projectors. Amazing how the shots can look so different just from posting them on two different forums.


So, what program are you using to match those colors?


----------



## SteveMo

I'm not using the noise reduction settings on my video card or the projector. I wonder if this is why I keep getting the sharpening comments.


----------



## plain fan

First off, wow Cliff those shots of Shoot em Up look great!


Kevin, good point I forgot to give the details of the setup, etc and this may be even more damning to those of us that love our CRTs. I viewed these at Ultimate Electronics, a "big box" retailer if you don't have any in your area. Primarily it was a "cave" but the rear of the room was glass and open to the store so it wasn't 100% light controlled but still very good. The projectors were running the Dolby True HD blu ray from a Pioneer player and they were fed 720p and internally upconverting to 1080p. (They didn't have the HDMI switching in yet.) I could have played with the settings but didn't have much time and I spent about an hour there. If I go back I will play with the settings but I didn't see any offensive issues when the salesguy checked them.


As for the comparison between the Sony and the JVC, I don't know if I could justify an additional $1500 (MSRP) for the JVC over the Sony. And if we want to talk price a very good 9" CRT set can be had for the $3k-$4.5k range that these projectors represent.


When I mentioned comparing what I see on the screen to real life I meant making the comparison between how my computer screen resolves an image (digital camera) of an image (source) to how I would see it in real time from the same source.


----------



## SteveMo

If they are up-converting 720P then they are using noise reduction and also throwing away resolution of the projector, probably to hide miss-convergence. However if it looks good to you that's what matters.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18113907
> 
> 
> Come on Kevin, you're so bent on comparisons. And your last comparisons are not accurate. Those shots are Not from my "Super 9500LC"
> 
> 
> And one other thing, the last group of shots I'll do over later today. They were all taking with a blown focus module... Yep, I found that out this morning. I kept wondering why the other edges were out of focus, and check the projector, and there it was - my focus board died..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I have another one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So get back to me later today and I'll redo those same shots, but don't get them mixed up with previous shots from now on, they will be from my "Super 9500LC"
> 
> 
> And yes, it's OK to compare the sharpness..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still can't figure out how recent shots ths past two months looks so similar in colors to my shot, but when looking at your shots on the pixel forum, they look just like the other pixel projectors. Amazing how the shots can look so different just from posting them on two different forums.
> 
> 
> So, what program are you using to match those colors?



No magic or cheating going on its just not calibrated to a determined standard ie REC 709. Gamma and colour saturation is my playground. If i think your new shots are worthy i will do a few comparisons so make em good and earth that yoke!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18114059
> 
> 
> No magic or cheating going on its just not calibrated to a determined standard ie REC 709. Gamma and colour saturation is my playground. If i think your new shots are worthy i will do a few comparisons so make em good and earth that yoke!



Of all the really nice digital projectors out there, we have to contend with you (un-calibrated) and Steve (not sure what to call that image).


Anyway, for you to challenge someone to fairness in looking at Digitals by making sure they are REC 709, when you yourself keep posting shots that's no where near anything that's reference..










Again, why do you keep saying your setup is NOT calibrated, but continue to use it as a reference..











You remind me of a guy who has a not so good looking girlfriend. For some strange reason he thinks she's beautiful. And there's nothing wrong with that, but when he claims she looks as good Hale Barry, then it brings attention to the comparison.


It's OK to believe anything you want, even when it's not necessarily true. however, when you make that claim public or known, then you have to respect the opinions of others. or at least from that point. keep your beliefs to yourself.


Or do you remember the song "I believe I can Fly"


After you spread your wings and find out you can't actaully fly, it's OK. just keep it to yourself, there's a deeper meaning to it..


Thinking your JVC is worthy to be a reference for display quality, or is much better than CRT. is very similar to having a not so good looking girlfriend and comparing her to a well known beauty..


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18114227
> 
> 
> Of all the really nice digital projectors out there, we have to contend with you (un-calibrated) and Steve (not sure what to call that image).



Early 1980's rear projection CRT with no C-element calibrated to Rec 709 is what I grew up with...


----------



## Kevin 3000

Waiting on your "reference Rec 709" shots *mp20748*...or you 2 busy windbaggin.....is that a word anyhow suits you......










Test your new focus against this Batman Dark Knight shot...59ish mins in

*JVC HD-350 with sharpness*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18114401
> 
> 
> Waiting on your "reference Rec 709" shots *mp20748*...or you 2 busy windbaggin.....is that a word anyhow suits you......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test your new focus against this Batman Dark Knight shot...59ish mins in
> 
> *JVC HD-350 with sharpness*



*Super 9500LC with NO Sharpening - 100% UNTOUCHEDat all*


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into my Super CRT - 100% UN-touched*


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/18113977
> 
> 
> First off, wow Cliff those shots of Shoot em Up look great!



Thanks. They were taken quite a bit ago.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18118440
> 
> *1080P into my Super CRT - 100% UN-touched*



Those be looking most excellent my friend.


----------



## overclkr

NO SHARPENING, just crop, reduce, and post.



























































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

ABSOLUTELY NO SHARPENING!!!!! Just crop, reduce, post.























































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66




----------



## overclkr









Hehe. Damn I need new tubes.


----------



## mp20748

These are really NICE!!!


I can imagine what they look like on the screen, because I know first hand how the camera struggles to convey that special low end detail that's really hard to put into the shops.


Just proves that there's more to CRT than fade to black.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18119107
> 
> 
> NO SHARPENING, just crop, reduce, and post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC HD-350










G90 STACK *overclkr`s*










JVC HD-350










G90 sTACK










JVC HD350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 STACK










JVC-HD350










G90 STACK


----------



## mp20748

I think I finally figured you out Kevin. You're really pro CRT...


After this last comparison, either you're visually impaired or you have this thing about showing us how much better that G90 looks compared to your digital......which is really puzzling..













> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18120991
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK *overclkr`s*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 sTACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC-HD350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18121028
> 
> 
> I think I finally figured you out Kevin. You're really pro CRT...
> 
> 
> After this last comparison, either you're visually impaired or you have this thing about showing us how much better that G90 looks compared to your digital......which is really puzzling..



Go away `small fry`you have had your chance but were full of excuses and insults!! I got bigger fish to catch......


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18121250
> 
> 
> Go away `small fry`you have had your chance but were full of excuses and insults!! I got bigger fish to catch......



Now you have gone and made me take this up another notch. I'm now going to have to just make that JVC go away......but hey, first I'll let you continue to show just how much better the G90 looks compared to your JVC, and maybe somehow you'll upgrade to a better digital, and then maybe you and I can get back to comparing shots...


----------



## Mr Bob

Yup, it's a war all right! Can't wait for the next installment...


Just an observation - it's really hard to compare crispness apples to apples when the same shots being compared are of different sizes.


That said, what is obvious despite sizing in the pix above is that the G90's black floor is head and shoulders deeper than that of the JVC, and allows for a lot more shadow detail. I worked with that black floor on my Mit 73" and had to do a sizeable amount of modification beyond factory setup to get it to look right, and without the "blue haze" creeping in and messing things up in the blacks. But it was doable. My blacks when there is no signal coming in - on blank inputs, not being fed anything - look gold now rather than black because of the lowered G2 voltage on the blue that was required, but whenever there *is* signal there the black is now pure, transparent and inky, as you can see from the Maybelline shots I sent in awhile ago. CRT at its finest.


Question is, would that even be doable on the JVC? At all?



b


----------



## Kevin 3000

More comparisons....

*JVC HD-350*









*G90 STACK*










JVC HD-350









*G90 STACK*









*JVC HD-350*









*G90 STACK*









*JVC HD-350*









*G90 STACK*


----------



## mp20748

Dude, are you not able to clearly see the difference between the JVC and the G90 stack?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18123254
> 
> 
> Yup, it's a war all right! Can't wait for the next installment...
> 
> 
> Just an observation - it's really hard to compare crispness apples to apples when the same shots being compared are of different sizes.
> 
> 
> 
> b




He does that for a reason. At first all his shots were smaller, and he would make sure they were the same size, even if he had to downsized the other shots.


And it's not only the low end that's better on the G90, everything seems to be better, but you're right, there's no real way of saying for sure until he get the size right.


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr


































































Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

Yo Kevin, you have compelled me to upgrade one of my 03 VIM's.











*1080P into CRT*


----------



## mp20748

*1080P into CRT now w/ SUPER 03 VIM*


----------



## Kevin 3000




mp20748 said:


> Yo Kevin, you have compelled me to upgrade one of my 03 VIM's.
> 
> 
> Only 1 get them all in and post like you have a pair


----------



## mp20748




Kevin 3000 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18124315
> 
> 
> Yo Kevin, you have compelled me to upgrade one of my 03 VIM's.
> 
> 
> Only 1 get them all in and post like you have a pair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, did I forget to mention that ALL of my shots are UNTOUCHED!
> 
> 
> If not write that down.
> 
> 
> Now, back to the Super 03 VIM upgrade. I have a little tweaking and color balancing to do, but until that happens, I'll post a few anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep ypur bulb warm for me K, because I'm looking forward to doing some comparisons after i get everything dialed in.
> 
> 
> *1080P into my Super 03 Modified Marquee 9500LC Ultra*
Click to expand...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18123746
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> Cliffy



Now that's what I call inky, transparent blacks, with depth and palpability.


Nice shootin', Cliff -











b


----------



## Mr Bob

Some other deep, inky blacks from the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread -


----------



## Kevin 3000

*More comparisons only resized to match the TRIPLE STACK even tested the low low end.....*


JVC HD-350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 sTACK










JVC HD350










G90 STACK










JVC HD-350










G90 STACK


----------



## mp20748

This 03 VIM is KICKING!! And I've still yet to calibrate the projector. I have to first get in a few parts.

*1080P into my Super 9500LC w/Super 03 VIM*


----------



## E. Martin

MP "This 03 VIM is KICKING!! "


Going to be putting my 9500 together very soon. I have the early MP mods in this PJ and am curious as to what a set of the new mods would run me with a swap out? Shoot me a PM (don't want to derail this thread beyond what I just did)...


thx!!!!


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## Mr Bob

Kevin -


In all fairness, the last shots you sent up do look a lot better in their shadow detail than the ones I commented on before. There's still some distracting ee going on for discriminating eyes in your 350 that's not there on the G90, but otherwise your shots look pretty good now. Thanks for resizing them and giving us apples to apples.


I'm still deathbed loyal to CRT, but gotta give the devil his due here. It's daytime and I might change my mind once I see your new ones in the dark at night, but for now your 350 is not looking half bad.


Not very many digitals can actually go head to head with a G90 and even stay in the running. You do deserve some respect here, for that -



b


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18129829
> 
> 
> Kevin -
> 
> 
> In all fairness, the last shots you sent up do look a lot better in their shadow detail than the ones I commented on before. There's still some distracting ee going on for discriminating eyes in your 350 that's not there on the G90, but otherwise your shots look pretty good now. Thanks for resizing them and giving us apples to apples.
> 
> 
> I'm still deathbed loyal to CRT, but gotta give the devil his due here. *It's daytime and I might change my mind once I see your new ones in the dark at night, but for now your 350 is not looking half bad.*
> 
> 
> Not very many digitals can actually go head to head with a G90 and even stay in the running. You do deserve some respect here, for that -
> 
> 
> 
> b



I don't think I can get gamma that high even with more lamp hours at 2.2 gamma because it's too bright. Since my camera can do 2.2, I try and keep my F-stop above 3.5 if I can help it. The best I can make up for shadow details is to lower the contrast when viewing screenshots. I find this works with or without ambient lighting on my LED monitor but no so well for CRT monitor since the brightness floor is pretty well fixed. I agree they are looking better.


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## mp20748




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## nashou66

Mike I just noticed something or is it only in these last shots.....is the ringing gone!!!!???


nashou


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## overclkr




----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18131832
> 
> 
> Mike I just noticed something or is it only in these last shots.....is the ringing gone!!!!???
> 
> 
> nashou



It's still there. It may not be as obvious after I reset the green to get rid of a touch of banding, but it's still there.


Maybe you'll see it in some of the following:


*1080P - UN-touched into my Super 9500LC w/Super 03 VIM*


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## mp20748

Here ya go Kevin.


*1080P - UN-touched into my Super 9500LC w/Super 03 VIM*


----------



## Mr Bob

OK, Kevin - some observations -





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18127623
> 
> *More comparisons only resized to match the TRIPLE STACK even tested the low low end.....*
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK



On this set, there's some obvious misconvergence of one of your panels internally. The blue is offset a bit to one side, which shows up in the side edges of the symbol.


There is also ee on the printing and writing below, which creates distracting outlining. Great if you're viewing from a distance, distracting when you're up close and personal with your display, and like it like that.



> Quote:
> HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 sTACK



It's nighttime again here at my computer, and The G90 wins this one on the inkiness of the blacks. Yours has a slight haze to it that defeats the potential depth it could have had. Makes the image look flat compared to the depth in the G90's image. You can also see the blue misconvergence on the cyclist's collar and cuff.


The horizontal bars on the grill of the car behind the cyclists each has a different look to it. On the G90 all the slats are uniform.


All the edges on the background superstructures behind the vehicles are enhanced, making them stand out. They are supposed to be in the background, not stand out. It's distracting and defeats the intended depth perception of the scene, where the background is supposed to be staying in the background.


Similar thing happened on the Leno Show during his monologue, where if you didn't reduce your brightness level during his monologue his desk in the background would be illuminated just as much as he, in the foreground doing his monologue, by the stage lighting. My normal br setting - good for *most* video material, as all calibrated br settings are - would illuminate both to the same degree.


They shoulda reduced the cam sensitivity to capture that depth, but didn't. So I had to reduce my br every time I watched his monologue, to keep the background - his desk - in the background.





> Quote:
> JVC HD350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK



Depth. Again that slight haze on your blacks. G90's reds are rosier and more glowing.



> Quote:
> JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK



Dynamic punch. Other than that -


Foreground looks OK, but there's a huge amount of digital outlining and mottling in the out of focus stuff in the background, esp. on that green and red cab in the center. All the lettering on the signs that's out of focus and thus supposed to be blurry and innocuous and stay in the background is standing out because of the outlining of the edges of the out of focus stuff. It gives them sharp edges rather than smoothed-out edges, as out of focus really looks.


That awning in particular, above the cab, shows 2 levels of light level in it - a box within a box - outlined against each other, where there should be a smooth transition from one light level to another, with no breaks. Very digital.


Just some of my observations. Many will say I am just nit picking, and maybe I am. I am sure your pj would look fine to the average viewer. But to a calibrator, these things stand out like a sore thumb.


And to CRT afficianados, who like to take personal credit for how good their sets look because they personally set them up, or had a noted calibrator with a reputation among them - like the great Ken Whitcomb, or ISF's Jim Doolittle - set them up, these things count also.


Not bad tho. Have seen a helluva lot worse, from digitals!











b


----------



## Kevin 3000

Nice of you Bob to cast your calibrators eye over these comparisons - I will have ago at correcting reds,

ultimate black level may be down to exposure camera or gamma PJ, misconvergence wheres that hammer....

I will use my PS3 in future shots HTPC is not as detailed....


A few more for Mike.......Resized zero sharpness


JVC










9500 Super Upgraded CRT










JVC










9500 Super Upgraded CRT










JVC










9500 Super Upgraded CRT


----------



## mp20748

Yo Kevin, amazing how that JVC minics the exact gamma of my CRT..










And it's also very interesting how it seems to have the same color matchings of both my Marquee and Cliff's G90, but not at the same time..











For it to not be color calibrated, it sure has some very unique ability to follow the projector it's compared to. Is that a special feature of the JVC?


----------



## mp20748

Here ya go Kevin, your next project. I've even sized it down for ya.


Let me explain what's going on here...


I've finally calibrated the projector to the changes. As you can see I'm now bringing out that unique lower end.


I'm not using any post sharpening or doing anything else to the shot.


*1080P into my calibrated 9500LC w/Super 02 VIM*


----------



## mp20748

The same shot but sized larger...


----------



## SteveMo

winduptoy's CRT










BenQ W5000


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18135825
> 
> 
> Yo Kevin, amazing how that JVC minics the exact gamma of my CRT..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's also very interesting how it seems to have the same color matchings of both my Marquee and Cliff's G90, but not at the same time..



I have noticed this camera discrepancy as well, so for fair comparisons a colour /gamma tweak is required as mentioned before in `my playground` comment uncalibrated JVC also does not help but you already know this.....whats up my pics 2 good for a digital







.


Cliff has 3 G90s stacked NO?


Nice comparisons SteveMo.......From that digital.....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138099
> 
> 
> I have noticed this camera discrepancy as well, so *for fair comparisons a colour /gamma tweak is required*.........













So you are modifying each of your shots to minic the comparison shot?


And in doing so, why even bother to do a comparison ,what would be the point??





> Quote:
> whats up my pics 2 good for a digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



What do you mean here..










Can you not tell that they're not good in comparison, isn't that also what Bob was pointing out to you... Or do you also need me to point out the many flaws in comparison?




> Quote:
> Cliff has 3 G90s stacked NO?[



Yes, but what's your point here? of course it can't be that anywhere that you've posted a comparison, it was better than the G90's


Btw, you've gotten better at hiding the fact that you're still adding sharpening, but be mindful that you're dealing with image experts here, therefore you should know that you're a long ways from fooling any of us..


----------



## Kevin 3000

Whatever you say Mike i am sticking around for more comparisons so you have your work cutout....lots of other people are checking out these comparisons....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138124
> 
> 
> Whatever you say Mike i am sticking around for more comparisons so you have your work cutout....lots of other people are checking out these comparisons....



Sure, and from now on, will you continue to modify your shots to "minic" our shots, or will you truly post them as they are?


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18138130
> 
> 
> Sure, and from now on, will you continue to modify your shots to "minic" our shots, or will you truly post them as they are?



Its upto you what you think. My Shots speak for themselves. Give us a time index on that King Kong pic or any others you require comparing. My JVC is up to the task if you can handle it.......


02 VIM or 03 VIM which is it others will wonder?


Visit a store and checkout the JVC sharpness level for yourself seems sharper on zero than your CRT....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138144
> 
> 
> Its upto you what you think. My Shots speak for themselves. Give us a time index on that King Kong pic or any others you require comparing. My JVC is up to the task if you can handle it.......
> 
> 
> 02 VIM or 03 VIM which is it others will wonder?
> 
> 
> Visit a store and checkout the JVC sharpness level for yourself seems sharper on zero than your CRT....




If your JVC is so sharp, why have you been posting shots with "sharpened" in the title?


Should sharpening be an issue for digital??


Or is it somehow when you compare your shots to the CRt shots, you find it necessary to do the "sharprening" thing.


Oh, and you're the only one on this thread that has tons of "EE" in their shots.


I know you're making Cliff proud..


----------



## mp20748

Why CRT...


*Pure UN-TOUCHED - NOT Sharpened 1080P into my CRT*


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18138187
> 
> 
> If your JVC is so sharp, why ahve you been posting shots with "sharpened" in the title?
> 
> 
> Show sharpening be an issue for digital??
> 
> 
> Or is it somehow when you compare your shots to the CRt shots, you find it necessary to do the "sharprening" thing.
> 
> 
> Oh, and you're the only one on this thread that has tons of "EE" in their shots.
> 
> 
> I know you're making Cliff proud..



The other G90 had sharpening on/off thats where. Your focus or something is way off in those tree canopy pics poor resolution.

Round and round you go where you stop only god knows.........


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138099
> 
> 
> Nice comparisons SteveMo.......From that digital.....



Modded digital. Most people don't correct gamut and gamma or pay much attention to saturation levels or RGB color balance. Those are difficult to photograph, but I do try.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138225
> 
> 
> The other G90 had sharpening on/off thats where.
> 
> Round and round you go where you stop only god knows.........



Regardless, but why would a digital needs SO MUCH sharpening, and why would you Also have to do so much more to your shots.


Double of triple stacked G90, it's clear that it blew your digital away in raw sharpness..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138225
> 
> *Your focus or something is way off in those tree canopy pics poor resolution.*



Really!


Do you know the scene, and should I also add sharpening..


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC










9500 Super Upgraded CRT


----------



## mp20748

Hey Kev. Considering you've posted that same triple picture comparison again, isn't it something special that a CRT projector at 1080P is actually right there with your digtal in sharpness. especially seeing where you've done so much to enhance your shots..










And still, the CRT looks more natural with more accurate and punchier colors.




Anyway, here's more UNTOUCHED and NOT SHARPENED 1080P from CRT:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138099
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff has 3 G90s stacked NO?




NOPE. I've been back down to a stack for quite a while now. Here is some shots from my triple stack when I had it up and running.


BTW, why are all of your comparison shots to mine removed (star trek, etc.)?



















































































Oh, and NO SHARPENING.










Cliff


----------



## michanecash

nip slip


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18138796
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why are all of your comparison shots to mine removed (star trek, etc.)?
> 
> 
> Cliff



Duh!


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18138796
> 
> 
> NOPE. I've been back down to a stack for quite a while now. Here is some shots from my triple stack when I had it up and running.
> 
> 
> BTW, why are all of your comparison shots to mine removed (star trek, etc.)?
> 
> 
> Cliff




I would like an answer to that also? Canon Image gateway stored here.
http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/p?p=BwRsVuTpwCj 

*JVC HD-350 Zero Sharpness Redone as per Bob the calibrators comments pointed out...*










G90


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18139611
> 
> 
> I would like an answer to that also? Canon Image gateway stored here.
> http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/p?p=BwRsVuTpwCj



This is SooooOOOOoooo funny..










Now, why don't you post an image and allow someone else can copy and then tweak one to be better..

















Or, why don't you just post some shots showing how great your JVC really is?


Did you forget that last shot I posted from Kong, I've been waiting on you to do your comparison magic on it.....and I want you to hand in there until I'm finished my calibrations.


Give me that Kong shot...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18139611
> 
> 
> I would like an answer to that also? Canon Image gateway stored here.
> http://www.cig.canon-europe.com/p?p=BwRsVuTpwCj




That's not quite fair there Kevin to take them down.










You on a bandwidth restriction or something?


----------



## mp20748

I'm still working on the calibration Kevin, so in the mean time, could you work your magic on these two shots.

*Straight from the camera*


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## mp20748

Kevin, do you really look at these closely before posting them, can you not clearly see where the G90 is producing a sharper and clearer image?


Do you know what "EE" is, and that you're still adding too much sharpness to your shots?



Think of it this way, you're comparing a single digital image to a triple (layered on top of each other) CRT image in each of those shots.


You fell for the okie-doke on this one..












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18145594
> 
> *More comparisons..*
> 
> .
> 
> JVC -HD350 using HTPC 5850 card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> G90 STACK
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK


----------



## Mr Bob

Back at apples to oranges on sizing, too, and the bigger pic - all else being equal - will always look "looser" in a screenshot than the smaller pic, all else being equal -


b


----------



## mp20748

OK, calibration done!










*1080P - UNTOUCHED*


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## mp20748

Still waiting on those two shots..










*1080P Untouched!*


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## mp20748

The power of CRT!

*1080P UNtouched!*


----------



## mp20748

*1080P Un-touched into my now calibrated CRT*


----------



## Kevin 3000

*More comparisons..*

.

JVC -HD350 using HTPC 5850 card










G90 STACK










JVC










G90 STACK










JVC










G90 STACK


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18138124
> 
> 
> Whatever you say Mike *i am sticking around for more comparisons so you have your work cutout*....lots of other people are checking out these comparisons....




Still waiting..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18146268
> 
> *More comparisons..*
> 
> .
> 
> JVC -HD350 using HTPC 5850 card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G90 STACK
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> G90 STACK



Damn, the triple stack is wiping the floor with that jvc.


----------



## dropzone7

Dam Cliff, that is just SICK. Wicked detail compared to that JVC.


----------



## mp20748

Some of my shots were taking with the camera in the HARD mode..










Several of the following shots were also taking in the HARD mode. The camera settings are "soft" - "STD" - "Hard" I've since put it in the "STD" mode, but can't tell a difference. So Kevin, a lot of my previous shots were taking in the 'Hard" mode. But almost most of these are in the "STD" mode.


So I guess is safe to say that some of these shots are "UN-TOUCHED"











*1080P into my Calibrated CRT*


----------



## SteveMo

Some calibration comparison shots using AEL.


F5.6 1 sec

10 IRE - 70 IRE










F5.6 1 sec

5 IRE - 70 IRE










F5.6 1 sec

15 IRE - 100 IRE










F8 2.5 sec

15 IRE - 100 IRE


----------



## Kevin 3000

*More Comparisons.........**

JVC HD-350 PS3 Resized for close match*









*G90 TRIPLE STACK*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18152197
> 
> *More Comparisons.........**
> 
> JVC HD-350 PS3*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *G90 TRIPLE STACK*



Let me try and help you out on this... look at the left of each picture and you'll see a gold emblem right under that light on a door. look at that emblem and everything in that area.


What's VERY obvious is the difference between the two shots.. again, the TRIPLE STACKED G90 is blowing your JVC away.


----------



## mp20748

This movie has way too much sharpening. It's the only Blu Ray that I know of with tons of edge enhancement.


*1000% Un-Touched 1080P*


----------



## Mr Bob

Late at night streetlight scene -


The red glow on the neon word Automat fades away into the surrounding areas gracefully on the stack, whereas on the digital it forms an outline around the word, I would presume due to the nature of digital stair-stepping.


The sizes, again, are not the same between the 2 pix, the larger one looks looser than the smaller one.


The blue misconvergence of the panels of the digital shows in several areas of the 350 pic, including the sign post on the left and the arches near the middle, in the background. The stack has no such misconvergence of any of the 3 single colors against the other 2, despite the mammoth undertaking of converging *three* massive pictures against each other, each being thrown onto a 10' screen. That's 9 images onto 1 screen, that you're seeing on Cliff's stack. And each of which is capable of massively screwing up the precision of the other 2 - or 7, depending on what's being talked about - when not super precise by itself. Great work, Cliff!


And great work Ken, on everything it takes to get a CRT ready for convergence in the first place. Which is also a mammoth undertaking, considering it involves astigmatism and scheimpflug alignments on each pj along with the much more predictable center vs. edge - plus the normal - focusing. No small feat, I just completed a Marquee LC 9500 in San Luis Obispo (which was a single pj, so we reduced the size of the 10' screen to 9' to gather more light output. So I am freshly up on all that right now). Ken has a huge amount of expertise to be proud of that comes thru on that triple stack, each of which pj hits the screen from a different angle/position.


I don't think many people know how many hours Ken had to put in on that triple stack to make it dial in so superbly like that. Double and triple stacks - even singles, tho to a far smaller degree - start out messy beyond belief, every time. I do know. Go, Ken!











The colorations are pretty close on these 2 pix, and I see less of the filminess covering the pic in the darks of the digital, than I have seen before on this digital.



b


----------



## overclkr

Well thanks Bob. Elmucho appreciated.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18152197
> 
> 
> More Comparisons



Hey Kevin, you've got some real nice shots you've posted. It's been fun.


Cliff


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## mp20748

*1080P - NOT SHARPENED*


----------



## Mr Bob

I just changed my post above to point out that Cliff's triple stack is displaying *9* images, each lens/gun coming from an angle different from all the others, and all 9 individually superimposed upon each other on the same screen like you would not believe. As evidenced by the clarity, transparency and crystallinity - and resultant depth - of his images. Had not pointed that out before, but it occurred to me just now.


Kudos again to the chefs, both Cliff and Ken.











b


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18160634
> 
> 
> I just changed my post above to point out that Cliff's triple stack is displaying *9* images, all individually superimposed upon each other like you would not believe. As evidenced by the clarity, transparency and crystallinity - and depth - of his images. Had not pointed that out before, but it occurred to me just now.
> 
> 
> Kudos again to the chefs, both Cliff and Ken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b




I would love to see Clliff's setup in person one day. I can't imagine the amount of hours that have gone into the various flavors of the G90 configurations in that room. Ken spent all day at my house tweaking my old ragged NEC XG-852 and I was amazed at how quickly he worked and of course with the end result. At one point in the electronic setup he managed to fix this dip in the upper left corner of my image that I had never been able to get just right. My mouth fell open and I said, "dam, I have tried to fix that forever and you just walk in here and correct it in a few seconds!" Ken turned around slowly with this grin on his face and said, "it's what I do."


----------



## Mr Bob

Give Cliff a call next time you're in Indiana about an hour and a half south of Chicago.


That's what I did, tho I was still in Chicago at the time -


He said, "When you get close, look for corn."


Right... You ever tried to NOT see corn in Indiana???











b


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18157175
> 
> 
> Hey Kevin, you've got some real nice shots you've posted. It's been fun.
> 
> 
> Cliff












*JVC HD-350 Challenges CRTs to compare with this*







*No Sharpening applied*


----------



## SteveMo

Kevin the jacket looks too blurry.

*Sharpness 5 iris 19*


getgray -
























UP contrast calibration -

I see one of the bars on the right I'm not supposed to see and the rest is neatly outlined.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18164748
> 
> 
> Kevin the jacket looks too blurry.



Right. White crush. Contrast too high, or cam set wrong


b


----------



## mp20748

*Pure UN-Touced 1080P*


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18165592
> 
> 
> Right. White crush. Contrast too high, or cam set wrong
> 
> 
> b


*indubitably SteveMo + Bob - Exhibit 1*


G90


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18165656
> 
> *indubitably SteveMo + Bob - Exhibit 1*
> 
> 
> G90



I knew what you were up to with that shot. I only hope you now understand that its best to just post your shots for what they are and not do tricks to match other shots.


We are shooting shots using single chip cameras. A single chip camera is not cabale of capturing proper D6500. So when one tries to convey that, or do comparison shots trying to show proper colors, it's not going to happen, so you'll have to do photo enhancements using a reference. When you do that, it's not a true and accurate depiction of what's on the screen. It should be the best your camera can catch it, and that also depends on the environment it was shot in.


Even a top quality 3 chip camera would require a recent calibration certificate to NIST standards.


And why do you guys with the digitals feel the need to add sharpness..










IN Stevemo's Step Pattern shot. He clearly indicates the sharpness added. And I'm not sure what he's trying to convey here. Are the shots of the test pattern indicating that the projector is doing it right?


----------



## Kevin 3000

*Exhibit 2

Sanyo z3000*


----------



## nashou66

Now that last one Kevin is much better than your first.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18165682
> 
> 
> I knew what you were up to with that shot. I only hope you now understand that its best to just post your shots for what they are and not do tricks to match other shots.
> 
> *We are shooting shots using single chip cameras.* A single chip camera is not cabale of capturing proper D6500. So when one tries to convey that, or do comparison shots trying to show proper colors, it's not going to happen, so you'll have to do photo enhancements using a reference. When you do that, it's not a true and accurate depiction of what's on the screen. It should be the best your camera can catch it, and that also depends on the environment it was shot in.



Mine is 3 chip.



> Quote:
> Even a top quality 3 chip camera would require a recent calibration certificate to NIST standards.



None are calibrated to NIST standards. That applies only to display calibration, and I'm not sure there is a standard way of calibrating cameras.



> Quote:
> And why do you guys with the digitals feel the need to add sharpness..



You can't add or subtract sharpness from a digital. It basically comes down to chip size and lens quality. Sharpness is done digitally. Sometimes the manufacture will use sharpness 0 as the best placement or sometimes higher. In my case sharpness 5 is close to factory settings. It might be 4. I'm using maximum zoom and maximum throw, so I would expect this to be normal, and not considered as some kind of enhancement. You can focus or defocus the projector but you really can't make a pixel sharper than already is. It's not the same as scan lines where adding sharpness will add extra scan lines.



> Quote:
> IN Stevemo's Step Pattern shot. He clearly indicates the sharpness added. And I'm not sure what he's trying to convey here. *Are the shots of the test pattern indicating that the projector is doing it right?*



I was trying to show as an example that I am using above 235 and that contrast is not crushing whites, which can sometimes be confusing for someone if they are purposefully using less digital sharpness, which truly does more harm than good and can crush whites. Maybe if Kevin had said "de-focused" it would not have caught my attention.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18165889
> 
> 
> Mine is 3 chip.



Now that's interesting, and would also prove more that there's more involved than justs "point and Shoot" for best images. If that's a three chips camera, you'll need to spend a lot of quality time with it before it's ready fro something like this.




> Quote:
> None are calibrated to NIST standards. That applies only to display calibration, and I'm not sure there is a standard way of calibrating cameras.



In theory a 3 chips camera was considered to be "Broadcast Quality" - meaning it had the capability to be calibrated to the Broadcast Standards.


And since you goal is to convey the proper colors, then that would somehow involve NIST:

http://slp.nist.gov/appearance/nadal.pdf 




> Quote:
> You can't add or subtract sharpness from a digital. It basically comes down to chip size and lens quality. Sharpness is done digitally. Sometimes the *manufacture will use sharpness 0 as the best placement or sometimes higher. In my case sharpness 5 is close to factory settings. It might be 4.* I'm using maximum zoom and maximum throw, so I would expect this to be normal, and not considered as some kind of enhancement. You can focus or defocus the projector but you really can't make a pixel sharper than already is. It's not the same as scan lines where adding sharpness will add extra scan lines.



So with the above, are you adding sharpness, increasing sharpness or any other method or means to sharpen the image and why?




> Quote:
> I was trying to show as an example that I am using above 235 and that contrast is not crushing whites, which can sometimes be confusing for someone if they are purposefully using less digital sharpness, which truly does more harm than good and can crush whites. Maybe if Kevin had said "de-focused" it would not have caught my attention.




Your test pattern illustration proves my point that it's not easy to show certain video qualifiers with a camera -- or by a simple "Point and Shoot" process.


In that test pattern illustration in your shots, it is not clearly showing that you're NOT crushing whites. The thing that gives that way is that each step pattern is distorted with 'brighter side' bleeding. Not sure what it looks like in person, but whenever a step pattern has shading or brighter sides of each step showing up, something is wrong.


Plus, the steps are not showing as increasing in gain. they seem to all look very similar, with one side being slightly brighter than the other.


But hey, that's one of the test patterns that Digitals won't do so well with...


----------



## Kevin 3000

mp20748


Whats up with your bond shot looks like your calibration is screwed or your PJ needs a new part again.....Poor effort indeed.... i would not post a shot like that....What would people think ..At least up the exposure and focus correctly.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18166299
> 
> 
> mp20748
> 
> 
> Whats up with your bond shot looks like your calibration is screwed or your PJ needs a new part again.....Poor effort indeed.... i would not post a shot like that....What would people think ..At least up the exposure and focus correctly.




It's a rare shot indeed, and it shows that it was not taking in the best lighting condition. But my point has been that I'm posting them as they are. I don't look at others shots first, nor use someones else shots for a reference, and then colr match mine to theirs.


And as you can clearly see, i don't add ANY sharpening at all.


And concerning what people would think. I don't think I have to prove anything. I have a many shots in these thread that proves that..










I'm not the one making comparisons. And at any point you're want to prove you can do better than what I'm doing. I'll make sure everything is perefect and we can go from there. But i'm sure you would not want that to happen, because you know i'm not one for solid and foreground scenes. I like those very complex background scenes that require the very best in video quality to bring out... but you should know that well by now, and that's why you've not been able to post comparisons of the shots i asked you to duplicate.


Do you need me to post them again?


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18166106
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting, and would also prove more that there's more involved than justs "point and Shoot" for best images. If that's a three chips camera, you'll need to spend a lot of quality time with it before it's ready fro something like this.



Too much ANSI for point and shoot.



> Quote:
> In theory a 3 chips camera was considered to be "Broadcast Quality" - meaning it had the capability to be calibrated to the Broadcast Standards.
> 
> 
> And since you goal is to convey the proper colors, then that would somehow involve NIST:
> 
> http://slp.nist.gov/appearance/nadal.pdf



Your thinking of video. My camera does more than that.

Foveon X3 sensor 



> Quote:
> Each of the three stacked photodiodes responds to different wavelengths of light, i.e., each has a different spectral sensitivity curve





> Quote:
> The color purity and intensity of blue, green and red depicted for the sensors are for ease of illustration. In fact, the attributes of each output pixel that are reported by a camera using this sensor result from the camera's image processing algorithms that employ a matrix process to construct the single RGB color from the data sensed by the photodiode stack





> Quote:
> So with the above, are you adding sharpness, increasing sharpness or any other method or means to sharpen the image and why?



The higher the gamma, the less need there is to hide problems since these are usually associated with higher gamma, which equals more contrast. 2.2 however is higher and lightens certain things in the image that can appear hazy or looking like trails. Since I sit near 7ft away, I can notice about any issues there are, and sharper pixels reveal less artifacts as this causes anti-aliasing due to the sharper pixel edges. The convergence of them is still light around the edges, and the projector is not perfectly focused, although I can see edges and the pixels appear square instead of round.



> Quote:
> Your test pattern illustration proves my point that it's not easy to show certain video qualifiers with a camera -- or by a simple "Point and Shoot" process.



This might be a better example. Each of these shots took two attempts each, and they still could look better.


This is a candle at 1 lux point and shoot 3.5 F-stop with maximum black.











Same candle at 1 lux point and shoot 3.5 F-stop with maximum white. This is a much shorter exposure time.











I check the histogram for errors usually but the contrast on my LCD view finder is not the best. I get exposure warnings but I have to zoom on highlights to see some of them, but it won't catch anything bellow a certain point so I have to check depth of field. The same applies when taking photos that are not of the screen.



> Quote:
> In that test pattern illustration in your shots, it is not clearly showing that you're NOT crushing whites. The thing that gives that way is that each step pattern is distorted with 'brighter side' bleeding. Not sure what it looks like in person, but whenever a step pattern has shading or brighter sides of each step showing up, something is wrong.



I can usually tell if brightness is set to high in photos because color gradients will look flat, or under-saturated. Back in some previous screenshot threads this was very quickly discovered, although this can also sometimes be related to the camera itself. It doesn't seem to apply much anymore however.



> Quote:
> Plus, the steps are not showing as increasing in gain. they seem to all look very similar, with one side being slightly brighter than the other.
> 
> 
> But hey, that's one of the test patterns that Digitals won't do so well with...



I had to use shutter priority for most of them because I'm using 60Hz lately and I get bars or unusual looking shadows. You can see what looks like the color wheel in the last shot with the test pattern.


----------



## mp20748

*For Kevin...*


Good news Kev! My brother gave me a Panasonic Blu Ray player today.


*1080P from a Panasonic Blu ray player - all shots 100% UN-Touched*


----------



## SteveMo

With normal HTPC startup the gamma appears lower, but if I go into the adobe gamma loader and click cancel, the gamma looks more like what I see on my laptop screen. That is what I did to calibrate and seems to work best. Then I put in a dark looking movie and things look lighter and hazzy, but I don't disable the startup profile, shadow details look darker. Bellow is an example. That might be what you are seeing in my shots Mike since my source is outputting what is probably 1.66 gamma, and not 2.22.











These are shots with normal startup.


----------



## SteveMo

It didn't load this time for that comparison shot. I'll try again when it does.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18171614
> 
> 
> With normal HTPC startup the gamma appears lower, but if I go into the adobe gamma loader and click cancel, the gamma looks more like what I see on my laptop screen. That is what I did to calibrate and seems to work best. Then I put in a dark looking movie and things look lighter and hazzy, but I don't disable the startup profile, shadow details look darker. Bellow is an example. That might be what you are seeing in my shots Mike since my source is outputting what is probably 1.66 gamma, and not 2.22.



Do you have a basic Point and Shoot camera you can do some shots in?


3 chip SLR's are not going to be your best way to capture screenshots. You're going to need a single chip P/S.


----------



## mp20748

I'm still working with the Panasonic. I like it a lot better than the Sony BDP-360, which I now know also caused the over saturation problem I was having.


I'll redo my calibration later today with the Pany now in the chain.


And I acn also play ALL my Blu Rays..









*1080P UN-Touched*


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18171654
> 
> 
> Do you have a basic Point and Shoot camera you can do some shots in?
> 
> 
> 3 chip SLR's are not going to be your best way to capture screenshots. You're going to need a single chip P/S.



Why what's wrong with my shots?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18171691
> 
> 
> Why what's wrong with my shots?




They appear to have below CRT gamma, when with digitals, the lower end should not be suppressed in darkness.


There's no are in taking screen shots, it that you'll need a special camera and settings. The more you make it out like photography, the more difficult it becomes to capture the images.



Go back to your step patterns. they would be a perfect reference to how well your camera captures what's on the screen.


When you're able to get either or both of the steps to show up on the screen and in the shots, it's then you're know how well you're displaying and capturing the 'proper' linearity for gamma. Don't trust your meter on this, follow the step pattern first.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18171700
> 
> 
> They appear to have below CRT gamma, when with digitals, the lower end should not be suppressed in darkness.
> 
> 
> There's no are in taking screen shots, it that you'll need a special camera and settings. The more you make it out like photography, the more difficult it becomes to capture the images.
> 
> 
> 
> Go back to your step patterns. they would be a perfect reference to how well your camera captures what's on the screen.
> 
> 
> When you're able to get either or both of the steps to show up on the screen and in the shots, it's then you're know how well you're displaying and capturing the 'proper' linearity for gamma. Don't trust your meter on this, follow the step pattern first.



You may have this backwards as it does not apply to my particular situation. I'm using a spectrometer which does not have gamma, therefore it's gamma is considered reliable when used correctly when brightness/contrast is set. My gamma is around 2.2 before temperature and CRT is at 2.4. I can't fix the lower-end gamma without at least around 600 hours on the lamp (I checked by eye). I don't have any displays with higher on/off and I'm not sure the difference in lower end-gamma will make that much of a difference for my shots or not due to the relatively low on/off. I have to calibrate down to 1% black on my CRT PC monitor (not sure if that's what your using) to show the lower end gamma that my camera is capable of.


This was my older lamp where I was able to watch 5% black and correct gamma. I had some pretty serious issues calibrating gamut however.










For this one I had not done gamut at the projector quite yet and temperature was done using a custom color temp. There is less visible shadow detail on the projector, but higher on/off.










Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I've been watching the 5%, 10%, 15%, black windows for reference.


----------



## SteveMo

Mike-


The trick that I used to get brightness/contrast was that after doing luminance and greyscale with my old lamp, I switched to the new one and set brightness using 1.0 gamma and THX drop shadow, then I went back to 2.2 gamma and did RGB color balance and gamma was still acceptable. I corrected red and yellow X Y lowering luminance as a result before doing gamut aimed at the projector, and then turned off the custom color temp which messes up my lower-end greyscale. When I get to 600 hours I'm hoping my custom color temp still allows me to correct greyscale because my older lamp was in pretty poor shape.


----------



## winduptoy

Mike,


Those shots with the Panny are much better. Great to have brothers like that isn't it?


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66

Cliff!!!!!!!! You Suck!!!!!!










Nashou


----------



## Kevin 3000

*More Comparisons.....*


JVC HD-350










G90 TRIPLE STACK?










JVC










G90










JVC










G90










JVC










G90










JVC










G90


----------



## mp20748

*1080P No Sharpening*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18172011
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> Those shots with the Panny are much better. Great to have brothers like that isn't it?



Yeah, I'm quite pleased with it..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18114401
> 
> 
> Waiting on your "reference Rec 709" shots *mp20748*...or you 2 busy windbaggin.....is that a word anyhow suits you......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test your new focus against this Batman Dark Knight shot...59ish mins in
> 
> *JVC HD-350 with sharpness*



*Marquee 9500LC @ 1080P without sharpness*


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

More 1080P...


----------



## Kevin 3000

*Comparisons..


JVC HD-350 zero sharpness*










*Super Modded 9500 VIM3 Calibrated over and over again...*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18190770
> 
> 
> Super Modded 9500 VIM3 Calibrated over and over again...



Oh yeah, some things are just that obvious...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

More for ya Kevin..









*1080P into my SUPER 9500LC CRT projector - UNTOUCHED*


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## mp20748

I'm winding down taking a few last shots before the C element change. I had a few things to work out first before the C element change. Now that's done we can move on to possibly a better Blu Ray player and then finally wrapping things up with my setup.


Other than the C element, I'm done!


Oh, most of the shots that I take are taking for tweaking reasons. The camera is good at capturing some of the changes I make that I'm not able to compare from memory. So I sometimes share them here. I just got done finding the best coupling cap value for the first stage.


*1080P into my CRT with NO sharpness added*


----------



## SteveMo

Tint -14










Meter calibrated color tint 0


----------



## mp20748

Where's Kevin??


I got a few more for you. I thought I'd post a few more since I'll be installing the RED C element this weekend, so I wanted to make sure I gave you something to do your comparison thing to while I'm away.


I had the setup on "video" in the Blu Ray player, but I finally figured that all out this morning. It's now in "auto" mode. Convergence is a bit off. Projector not warmed up.

*More from my Super 9500LC @ full 1080P*


----------



## Kevin 3000




mp20748 said:


> Where's Kevin??
> 
> 
> I got a few more for you. I thought I'd post a few more since I'll be installing the RED C element this weekend, so I wanted to make sure I gave you something to do your comparison thing to while I'm away.
> 
> 
> In case you get confused i found this for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Takes a week to cure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.curtpalme.com/Changing_C_Elements1.shtm


----------



## mp20748




Kevin 3000 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18208787
> 
> 
> Where's Kevin??
> 
> 
> I got a few more for you. I thought I'd post a few more since I'll be installing the RED C element this weekend, so I wanted to make sure I gave you something to do your comparison thing to while I'm away.
> 
> 
> In case you get confused i found this for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Takes a week to cure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.curtpalme.com/Changing_C_Elements1.shtm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, I'm an Old School Marquee guy. I should have that done in about an hour...
> 
> 
> Hmm, I'll do it now.
Click to expand...


----------



## mp20748

Ok, how am I doing so far..


----------



## fvale

Hello MP, would you like to share some of your tests about different input capacitors values? Years ago I replaced mine following your suggestions about keeping value at standard but at higher voltage. It may be the time to upgrade again as I just got the (very good) Moome internal card!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fvale* /forum/post/18209081
> 
> 
> Hello MP, would you like to share some of your tests about different input capacitors values? Years ago I replaced mine following your suggestions about keeping value at standard but at higher voltage. It may be the time to upgrade again as I just got the (very good) Moome internal card!



Sure, I'll send you a link - check your PM!


----------



## Kevin 3000

*Another comparison...*

*JVC HD-350 zero sharpness*









*Super Modded 9500LC CRT VIM3 Needing a Mod for 180Mhz...*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18211247
> 
> *Another comparison...*
> 
> *JVC HD-350 zero sharpness*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Super Modded 9500LC CRT VIM3 Needing a Mod for 180Mhz...*



Cool Kevin... so I see I'm competing with a later model digital projector in sharpness -- correct?


Must be, because there's a lot of other things wrong with your image. And considering the comparison is a CRT @ 1080P in comparison to your digital for sharpness..







I'm puzzled why you would even bother to post the comparison. Or maybe you need to get your eyeglasses updated.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18212367
> 
> 
> Cool Kevin... so I see I'm competing with a later model digital projector in sharpness -- correct?
> 
> 
> Must be, because there's a lot of other things wrong with your image. And considering the comparison is a CRT @ 1080P in comparison to your digital for sharpness..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm puzzled why you would even bother to post the comparison. Or maybe you need to get your eyeglasses updated.



Explain what you think is wrong - Clue look at file name.









Tested your pic against an .mkv downscaled version taken off my HTPC. Close call......


----------



## VPH-G90

[QUOTE = Kevin 3000; 18162667]: cool:


* [size = "3"] JVC HD-350 Défis tubes cathodiques pour comparer avec ce [/ size] [/ B]: D  [size = "4"] Pas d'affûtage appliquées [/ size] [/ B]: p








[/ QUOTE]



Sony G90
















*


----------



## mp20748

*RED C Element is now in..







*


I'll fine tune things tomorrow.


----------



## Kevin 3000

*VPH-G90s* Sample


Sony G90










Bravo

Now this is whats expected from a top notch 150Mhz CRT time to warn up my JVC HD-350 and PS3 for a proper comparison. Edited/processed image according to software SAD!!


Avoid this *mp20748* your CRT has only 135Mhz this is ths PRO league.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18215297
> 
> 
> *Now this is whats expected from a top notch 150Mhz CRT time to warn up my JVC HD-350 and PS3 for a proper comparison.
> *


*


Warm it up...







...oh, I forgot, it's time for you to minic that G90 shot..














Quote:
Avoid this mp20748 your CRT has only 135Mhz this is ths PRO league.








Click to expand...


Sure, but so that you'll know. Bandwidth shots are the ones that has a lot of stuff (detail) in the backgrounds. Close up and solid foreground shots require very little bandwidth.


Like the Kong shot that I asked you to compare. In thiose shots look at the detail far in the background -- and when you do, you'll see where my Super 9500Lc blows your JVC away. Now, considering your JVC is a native 1080P digital, in no way should a CRT show more finer detail -- unless..














*


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## mp20748

*RED C Element Installed*


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000 digital with the lamp warmed up.


----------



## overclkr

G90 Stack just turned on.


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## wallace1234

Bro, that is sick! The next meet? I need to get back to reality!










wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/18218445
> 
> 
> Bro, that is sick! The next meet? I need to get back to reality!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallace



It's definiteliy getting about that time fo sho.


----------



## Prehjan

Great shots over!


Martin


----------



## Kevin 3000

*VPH-G90s* Sample


Sony G90









*JPEGSnoop shows this tobe Edited/Processed... A G90 having to fake a picture???*


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18223456
> 
> *JPEGSnoop shows this tobe Edited/Processed... A G90 having to fake a picture???*



Nothing out of the ordinary that I see here.


G90 photo histogram










9500LC Ultra histogram










sim2 photo histogram










BenQ W5000 photo histogram










JVC HD-350 photo histogram


----------



## mp20748

Two days later....Kevin can't do his magic and post a comparison shot..











Oh and of course there's no reason at all why his comparison shot would be inferior to the G90 shot, so something just has to be wrong with the G90 shot...is that right Kevin..


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JPEGSnoops summary So this is classed as OK then???*

*G90s Pic in question*


NOTE: Photoshop IRB detected

NOTE: EXIF Software field recognized as from editor

Based on the analysis of compression characteristics and EXIF metadata:


ASSESSMENT: Class 1 - Image is processed/edited

*All Other Pics not Edited only resized*


ASSESSMENT: Class 4 - Uncertain if processed or original

While the EXIF fields indicate original, no compression signatures

in the current database were found matching this make/model


Appears to be new signature for known camera.

If the camera/software doesn't appear in list above,

PLEASE ADD TO DATABASE with [Tools->Add Camera to DB]


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18223456
> 
> *VPH-G90s* Sample
> 
> 
> Sony G90
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JPEGSnoop shows this tobe Edited/Processed... A G90 having to fake a picture???*


you're bad, you accuse without knowing! It is a shame to accuse people of lying and cheating!I use photoshop just for resize !

play wit this, it's original screen UNTOUCHED


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18226014
> 
> you're bad, you accuse without knowing! It is a shame to accuse people of lying and cheating!I use photoshop just for resize !
> 
> play wit this, it's original screen UNTOUCHED



I am just the messenger if the software shows a false positive as above its the softwares fault.....Try it yourself next time.......Also your Created Date is later than your Modified Date on your latest pic??









*Another Comparison.......*

*JVC HD-350 - PS3 Uncalibrated*










*Sony G90 - Pioneer LX91 and Crystalio VPS 3800 Calibrated*


----------



## VPH-G90

Yes I have got 2 computers and the first screenshot resized was posted with my first PC ! My screen is on my 2 PC ! But the screenshot hasn't been transfered in the same time on the two PC.

I am honnest, and I don't try to abuse anybody !

You lost ! Welcome in the "SCREENSHOT WAR"


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18226200
> 
> 
> Yes I have got 2 computers and the first screenshot resized was posted with my first PC ! My screen is on my 2 PC ! But the screenshot hasn't been transfered in the same time on the two PC.
> 
> I am honnest, and I don't try to abuse anybody !
> 
> You lost ! Welcome in the "SCREENSHOT WAR"



Cool - What Video Processor have you got inline with your G90?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18226200
> 
> 
> Yes I have got 2 computers and the first screenshot resized was posted with my first PC ! My screen is on my 2 PC ! But the screenshot hasn't been transfered in the same time on the two PC.
> 
> I am honnest, and I don't try to abuse anybody !
> 
> You lost ! Welcome in the "SCREENSHOT WAR"



























Nashou


----------



## VPH-G90

What I use is not important since we are in "Screenshot War" ! Only the result is important !










But since you are so interested I will tell you that I use a Pioneer LX91 and Crystalio VPS 3800 and of course my secret for optimisation and if you contunue not to beleive me come to me in France I you will see by yourself.


----------



## mp20748

Kevin's first shot that was posted compared to the G90 shot.

*JVC HD-350 - ORIGINAL*








[/ QUOTE]


And as usual, any shot that anyone post, Kevin will do his magic and minic it..









*JVC HD-350 Uncalibrated*












Why are you challenging someone else on their shots being modified, when you've been doing it all along. the last shot is also from an "Unclaibrated" JVC, yet the colrs match the G90..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18226363
> 
> 
> Kevin's first shot that was posted compared to the G90 shot.
> 
> 
> And as usual, any shot that anyone post, Kevin will do his magic and minic it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you challenging someone else on their shots being modified, when you've been doing it all along. the last shot is also from an "Unclaibrated" JVC, yet the colrs match the G90..



Get a grip mp20748 - Check back and see that pic was done to prove a point and get some comments comparing it to earlier pics DUH!!!!


This JVC must bug the hell out of you..............Just brightened my comparison pic a bit to compare with the Super G90.....


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18226435
> 
> 
> Get a grip mp20748 - Check back and see that pic was done to prove a point and get some comments comparing it to earlier pics DUH!!!!




Cool, but how could one single UNCALIBRATED digital projector produce two very different screenshots?


Or let me ask it another way... what changes took place to make those two shots from the same projector SOoooo different..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18226449
> 
> 
> Cool, but how could one single UNCALIBRATED digital projector produce two very different screenshots?
> 
> 
> Or let me ask it another way... what changes took place to make those two shots from the same projector SOoooo different..



Camera exposure + colour saturation + custom white balance try it.........


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18226483
> 
> 
> Camera exposure + colour saturation + custom white balance try it.........


----------



## decktile

FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.


----------



## Mr Bob

RGBHV based ceiling pjs don't have red push. The outboard processors they use to bring the sig to the pj might, but once the signal is down to its actual red green and blue components/signals, those are pure and stay pure, and don't get changed by the projector after that. Once RGBHV hits the projector, you get what you got. It stays pure and unchanged throughout the pj's internal signal chain.


If there's red push in a screenshot, it's been inserted by the circuitry in line with the pj *before* it hits the projector.


The pj may have erroneous grayscale with red in the darks or lights or even everywhere in between. But that's not red push. That's grayscale error.


On a b/w picture it's impossible to see red push, as red push is only present when there's color differentiation present. The only color errorring you'll see on a B/W pic is grayscale error.


So are you sure you meant to say red push? If it's indeed there, the signal chain ahead of the pj is what is suspect. Not the projector.



b


----------



## nashou66

Bob, Decktile is a spammer.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo

I'm downloading an update for my camera. I hope to see some improvements.



> Quote:
> Ver.3.5.2.0
> 
> 
> * Improved processing performance in highlight areas of RAW images.
> 
> * Exposure Warning is displayed to each RGB channels of the histogram.
> 
> * Addition of “ProPhoto RGB” to the Color Space in “Save Image As”.


----------



## SteveMo

Photo before the update -











Same photo after software update -











New photo taken with .3 second longer exposure after doing the processing comparison.


----------



## mp20748

I'm bak!


I had a problem with my focus board that I did not realize until yesterday. I knew something was wrong, but only found what it was recently.


This coming weekend I'll be showing a new Blu Ray DVD that looks great on my setup.

*1080P direct from the player to my CRT - UNtouched*


----------



## Mr Bob

Great gamma response on those dark-area pix, Mike. Are you running a gamma bump in the chain, or is what we see native?


b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18240510
> 
> 
> Great gamma response on those dark-area pix, Mike. Are you running a gamma bump in the chain, or is what we see native?
> 
> 
> b




I found a gamma adjustment in the Panasonic Blu Ray player. I can also lower the saturation in those same controls..


----------



## Mr Bob

I have the Panny DMP BD 10A. Wonder if mine has that? I'll check it as time permits, can't spare the time right now...


b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18241373
> 
> 
> I have the Panny DMP BD 10A. Wonder if mine has that? I'll check it as time permits, can't spare the time right now...
> 
> 
> b



Yep, we have the same unit. It has quite a bit of adjustments:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## nashou66

Cliff your NUTS!!!!!!!!










Nashou


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18245773
> 
> 
> Cliff your NUTS!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou


----------



## csamos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18245773
> 
> 
> Cliff your NUTS!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



Hey, I don't want to hear anything about Cliff's nuts.


;-)


Thanks for all the screen shots of Purple Rain. I feel like I don't need to watch the movie now.


----------



## dvh99

your blue is off or is that common with sony







.


----------



## mp20748

*Un-Touched 1080P*


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18241896
> 
> 
> Yep, we have the same unit. It has quite a bit of adjustments:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT



Wow, didn't know what I had! Thanks for the link.


This unit was given to me by my HD buddy Roy, when he stepped up. He also had a 30 that we decided should go to Christine, since what I have has more of the things he knows I like, so I should stay with the 10 instead.


He now has the new Oppo and couldn't be happier. He gave the newest gen Panny he had recently to his daughter, saying I should still stick with this one for my purposes, even tho it's older than the newer ones. Have not been disappointed.


I will explore what mine can do as time permits. Definitely will check out that gamma set of settings, tho. Can you clue me into your optimum settings on it, for gamma? Judging from your shadow detail, you've definitely got your finger on the pulse. Don't watch it nearly as much as I'd like to, but it is presently at factory setup as far as I know -


b


----------



## Mr Bob

Cliff -


You tore my heart out when you left out the best shot from Purple Rain... there was the before shot, then the after shot, but not the money shot!











I know you gotta tho, to keep this thread from being censored...











Any chance we'll see the "nicer" shots needing to be left out here, over at Curt's site? (hint hint)











b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## ImaStar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18248939
> 
> 
> Cliff -
> 
> 
> You tore my heart out when you left out the best shot from Purple Rain... there was the before shot, then the after shot, but not the money shot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you gotta tho, to keep this thread from being censored...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance we'll see the "nicer" shots needing to be left out here, over at Curt's site? (hint hint)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



You know when I saw the shots and started scrolling down I thought, "could that shot be here?" It was in all its splendor!







Must have been yanked though.










Hey thanks Cliff, for those gorgeous shots of something not shown over and over like other screen pics.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ImaStar* /forum/post/18250432
> 
> 
> You know when I saw the shots and started scrolling down I thought, "could that shot be here?" It was in all its splendor!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must have been yanked though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey thanks Cliff, for those gorgeous shots of something not shown over and over like other screen pics.



Yeah, they are there. You just have to look at the numbers missing from the URL.










I could only post them temp before I got booted for showing BOOBIES!!!!!!










Cliff


----------



## Mr Bob

Darn, I missed it! As I recall that happened once before too, many moons ago on this thread...











b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18255615
> 
> 
> Darn, I missed it! As I recall that happened once before too, many moons ago on this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Want me to pm you the link Bob?


----------



## Mr Bob

Oooh yeah, masterchief...












b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18256979
> 
> 
> Oooh yeah, masterchief...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b


 My pleasure.


----------



## mp20748

A few more UN-touched 1080P


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots don't touched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots don't touched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots don't touched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots don't touched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots don't touched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## mp20748

*UN-Touched 1080P[/B

























































































]*


----------



## plain fan

Those Terminator: Salvation pictures are amazing!


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90+pioneer LX91+crystalio2 1920X817p72

Sreenshots untouched just resize with photoshop (for Kevin3000)


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/18266004
> 
> 
> Those Terminator: Salvation pictures are amazing!



thanks


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18257245
> 
> My pleasure.



Awesome, man! ThanQ











b


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/18266207



Ced, damn, nice.


----------



## VPH-G90

Thanks overclkr


----------



## mp20748

*Pure/native Untouched 1080P*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## Gary Murrell

good stuff as usual Mike







is this with a MP Moome unit? got get one of them and get rid of this hdfury2 trash


-Gary


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18283601
> 
> 
> good stuff as usual Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is this with a MP Moome unit? got get one of them and get rid of this hdfury2 trash
> 
> 
> -Gary



Yes. did you ever get your projector going again?


----------



## dvh99

testpic

i cannot get decent colours out this camera.

what i see on screen and on the picture is very different.

canon powershot a580.


tried every setting without flash and all colours are changed by the camera.


1080p 72hz


----------



## dvh99

1 more


----------



## Gary Murrell

great Mike, gotta get one of them...my pj is running but I have a problem with the splitter or quad...I have HV arcing at the splitter, in between jobs or I would have it fixed


-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob

In certain cases you can get away with coating your HV component with bathtub caulking compound, the kind that sets up pliable and flexible. It can be clear or any other color, the important thing is to seal in that HV, so it has no path to ground anywhere out there.


Glop it on there and try it out, but don't run it for more than a few seconds in that condition, as it needs to dry to cure. I once tried it wet and after awhile it simply cut a hole in the caulking, so it needs to be solid before you can trust it.


If the arcing has stopped, give it 24 hours to fully cure before trying it again. If it still doesn't arc then, you have it licked and it should stay permanently that way from then on.


Of course if the arcing is internal forget about the above, you just gotta replace that compromised part -



b


----------



## mp20748

*Pure and UN-touched 1080P...*


----------



## SteveMo

Impressive.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18296069
> 
> 
> Impressive.



The next time you calibrate your digital, don't use DVE for the low end. Get the "Spears and Munsil" Blu Ray and use their "PLUGE LOW" for low end setup...


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18297966
> 
> 
> The next time you calibrate your digital, don't use DVE for the low end. Get the "Spears and Munsil" Blu Ray and use their "PLUGE LOW" for low end setup...



I used 0% - 20% white windows on my GetGrey DVD for the lower end.


----------



## SteveMo

7.5 IRE










0 IRE


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## SteveMo




----------



## cencio

My poor support to this thread.

I have installed the new SUPER 02 VIM in my Marquee 9500 LC ULTRA.

After a first setup these are the image that I have obteined.
*PS3 1080i - MOOME VIM FULL HD v2 - into the 9500*


You know that the quality of the camera pictures are not good. In these appears a light blue dominance taht in the real image there isn't. I have always the same problem with the setup of my camera. Sorry.


----------



## Gary Murrell

dude, those pics show some serious natural sharpness there, they look great










-Gary


----------



## cencio

Oh thanks, but the proj needs adjustments.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18308696
> 
> 
> Oh thanks, but the proj needs adjustments.




Yeah, but they do show great potential..










I may be in your area this spring or summer. If not me, I hope to have someone going in my place. It will be a two country visit - I'll keep you informed. I have one more medical obstacle to clear first.


Why are you running 1080I?


----------



## overclkr

Hi.


----------



## Prehjan







































































































































:
















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Cencio those are some nicely focused screenshots. (...crappy camera/1080i or not!!! MP is right try 1080P! You will NOT be disappointed with it!)


Muhahahahah back at you Overclkr!


I see that your G90 is still humming nicely!


Great beasts these CRTs are!!! Take that "bulby"!!! (I have a feeling that a "closet bulb lover" is gonna show up and give me lip for this remark!!! (((You know who you are!!!)))































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Martin


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18311199
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they do show great potential..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may be in your area this spring or summer. If not me, I hope to have someone going in my place. It will be a two country visit - I'll keep you informed. I have one more medical obstacle to clear first.
> 
> 
> Why are you running 1080I?



Many thanks. I'm already waiting for you.


I'm running 1080i because I told you that the PS3 don't want work 1080p no 24Hz no other freq. When I input 1080p no image appears, only snow flashes.




> Quote:
> Cencio those are some nicely focused screenshots. (...crappy camera/1080i or not!!! MP is right try 1080P! You will NOT be disappointed with it!)



Many thanks Prehjan. I'm glad for your words. I need to work more and more


----------



## Prehjan

Cencio.


...Call me Martin. (...nice meeting you also!)


On an off note:


I was in Italy in 87 and loved it there! (Even though I only saw the inside of the airport and a few cab rides to and from the hotel! Did not really get to go anywhere around town..since we were only there for three days...we were coming back from a family vacation from the Greek islands so we were only waiting for our flight back to Paris where we lived at the time!!!)


Needless to say I loved Italy and pretty much all of Europe! (Now I live in Los Angeles...and it is not the same! I envy you guys sometimes for being able to live is such a culturally/historically rich place! ...not to mention some warm blooded folks!)


Now good luck with your 1080P adventures! (I don't see why your PJ did not accept it...you do have the latest HDMI Moome input device/card...right?)


Martin


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18313273
> 
> 
> Cencio.
> 
> 
> ...Call me Martin. (...nice meeting you also!)
> 
> 
> On an off note:
> 
> 
> I was in Italy in 87 and loved it there! (Even though I only saw the inside of the airport and a few cab rides to and from the hotel! Did not really get to go anywhere around town..since we were only there for three days...we were coming back from a family vacation from the Greek islands so we were only waiting for our flight back to Paris where we lived at the time!!!)
> 
> 
> Needless to say I loved Italy and pretty much all of Europe! (Now I live in Los Angeles...and it is not the same! I envy you guys sometimes for being able to live is such a culturally/historically rich place! ...not to mention some warm blooded folks!)
> 
> 
> Now good luck with your 1080P adventures! (I don't see why your PJ did not accept it...you do have the latest HDMI Moome input device/card...right?)
> 
> 
> Martin



Oh Martin your words are music for me.

I live in the south of Italy, exactly in Bari - Puglia where the sea is in an incontamineted natural condition. I would like you come here to meet me in the future.


I have the last Moome input card but doesn't accept the 24Hz and the proj doesn't accept the 1080p. It is a mystere.


Thanks


Vincenzo


----------



## 1031




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18313377
> 
> 
> Oh Martin your words are music for me.
> 
> I live in the south of Italy, exactly in Bari - Puglia where the sea is in an incontamineted natural condition. I would like you come here to meet me in the future.
> 
> 
> I have the last Moome input card but doesn't accept the 24Hz and the proj doesn't accept the 1080p. It is a mystere.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Vincenzo



Hello. Puglia.. nice wines!

But back to topic, you probaly have too long( or bad quality) hdmi-cable between source and projector. Test (move PS3 closer to projector) with shorter cable and see if you got 1080p (at 60Hz) then, 24P will not work.


That "digital snow" comes (what you see when you trye 1080P resolutions) from too weak signal to moome card, long cable can attenuate signal too much. Lower resolutions (like 1080i) has lower pixelclock and those work better with long cables.


----------



## napos

Hello Vincenzo,


Your Moome card is working just fine. The problem is that no CRT projector can display 24Hz. You will need a video processor to change the frame rate to 48 or 72Hz. What you can do with the PS3 is to disable the 24p option and use [email protected] Your 9500 will have no problem syncing with that.


Nicholas


----------



## cencio

Hello my friends,

I have found the problem: it is into the switch. Infact I have tried, with the same cable that connects the switch and the proj, to connect directly the PS3 and the proj. So they work very well.

Now I'm searching for a quick solution.

This is the switch:
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%205port.htm 


Why it doesn't work?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Moome card is working just fine. *The problem is that no CRT projector can display 24Hz.* You will need a video processor to change the frame rate to 48 or 72Hz. What you can do with the PS3 is to disable the 24p option and use [email protected] Your 9500 will have no problem syncing with that.
> 
> 
> Nicholas



Is that right?


I recently installed and completely set up from scratch a Curt-refurb'd LC 9500 Marquee in San Luis Obispo for a doctor where he sits a foot farther back from the end of the pj on the ceiling for his 9' screen, and everything looked great in 1080p until we tried to implement the 1080p/24 option in the BDP, in response to which the pic completely disappeared. Everything went back to normal when switched back, so I had to leave it alone after that, as our time for the trip had run out and I had to catch their local puddle-jumper back to OAK.


But you say it is impossible on a pj designed for and capable of the highest scanrates of line quadruplers, for it to do 24Hz? 24Hz is only for digital tech?



b


PS - if it doesn't do 24, would not 72 be better than 60 for a 24 fps-shot movie, being a direct multiple of the original framerate? Guess the ps3 does not do 72 then, only 60?


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18314655
> 
> 
> Is that right?
> 
> 
> I recently installed and completely set up from scratch a Curt-refurb'd LC 9500 Marquee in San Luis Obispo for a doctor where he sits a foot farther back from the end of the pj on the ceiling for his 9' screen, and everything looked great in 1080p until we tried to implement the 1080p/24 option in the BDP, in response to which the pic completely disappeared. Everything went back to normal when switched back, so I had to leave it alone after that, as our time for the trip had run out and I had to catch their local puddle-jumper back to OAK.
> 
> 
> But you say it is impossible on a pj designed for and capable of the highest scanrates of line quadruplers, for it to do 24Hz? 24Hz is *only* for digital tech?
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> 
> PS - if it doesn't do 24, would not 72 be better than 60 for a 24 fps-shot movie, being a direct multiple of the original framerate? Guess the ps3 does not do 72 then, only 60?



Actually it will display 24Hz, but the image will be "unwatchable". The image will "roll" continuously in a diagonal pattern. This is the result I get on my 9500. The easiest thing to do is double the frame rate to 48 with a scaler or a PC. I had excellent results with a Lumagen HDP. You can also try 72 Hz, but I believe that it is using too much bandwidth. I was never able to try it, because the HDP will not output [email protected] via DVI. and I believe my Moome V2 card will not sync to that either.


----------



## Mr Bob

Gotcha. Thx!











Yeah, the doctor was coming off a 7" gun Zenith, shooting fully onto his 10' screen, using a 7 year old Crystal Image upconverting scaler, upconverting of course simply from 480i to whatever the scaler offered. Which did not include 1080i or p. He had no HD and had no idea what today's sys's are capable of. And was shooting 7" guns onto a 10' screen, which made res not the best in the world and light levels quite dim compared to say 7" guns onto an 8' screen.


I maxed out his CRT face area used on all 3 guns for image depth, and did the requisite re-aiming of the outer 2 guns. Then I downsized his screen and image size to 9' to provide better light levels, which I demo'd to him by simply moving it forward and back 1' at a time while it was sitting on the floor before hanging it - he'll have his carpentry guy mask it later. Then proceeded on to the rest of the cal.


Needless to say when I put his new BDP online with the HD Fury II and got thru setting up and maxing out the natural potential of his 9500 in 1080p and he had a chance to see the entire new setup in action, he was totally blown away. Had initially been simply expecting restoration of his former picture. Ha!











His next step is going to be getting the new 3D converter Curt has access to and playing some of the many 3D movie offerings that are going to be out there soon, with more to come after that. The new BluRay 3D format has been established and nailed down, it's now standardized, all BDPs will have the same thing, according to the common info about it at CES at all the manufacturers. 3D BD players are coming and will be out soon if they are not already.


Then it will be like that triple-gun CRT pj I did for that biogenetics company some years back, where as part of their research in their conference room they use the LCD shutter glasses - the best 3D method available - to view floating DNA strands in 3D. Had a lot of fun with that one, and that was years ago, so 3D tech *has* been around for awhile, just not real affordable.


Yum...











b


PS - anyone wanting to step up to 3D right now, get ahold of Curt! Your projectors are all probably capable of 3D right now, and quite possibly full 1080p 3D.


He's ready for ya, or at least will be soon, as this is still quite new tech for the masses.

www.curtpalme.com -


----------



## cencio

Nobody knows the effect of the switch on my problem?


Tonight I will do a new memory bank for the PS3 directly into the MOOME card at 1080p/60Hz.


But I know that the best solution is the processor and 1080p/48Hz.


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18315633
> 
> 
> Nobody knows the effect of the switch on my problem?
> 
> 
> Tonight I will do a new memory bank for the PS3 directly into the MOOME card at 1080p/60Hz.
> 
> 
> But I know that the best solution is the processor and 1080p/48Hz.



I agree 100%. Get a Lumagen and enjoy!!!

You can also display any NTSC DVDs you may have at [email protected]

I have also tried [email protected] (480lines of NTSC X 2). This also produces great results for DVD. For PAL try [email protected] (576lines of PAL X 1.5)


Nicholas


----------



## Prehjan

Nick and 1031 hit it just on the head!


I am surprised no one else thought of that problem since most of us have had it at some point or another!


Good luck Cencio


Martin


----------



## Mr Bob




cencio said:


> Cencio -
> 
> 
> Might want to correct the geometry on this display. The content is pretty revealing in terms of showing a really accurate perfect circle here. On the display's image the left half of the circle is a lot wider than the right, which is not how a normal manhole cover - or in this case of course, a time capsule cover - would be.
> 
> 
> If the center of the pointer is also supposed to be in the center of the circle, there are vertical linearity alignment issues as well -
> 
> 
> This image is supposed to be a perfect circle, like the ABC or CBS logos, or a full moon -
> 
> 
> 
> b


----------



## nashou66

Cencio and Napos, especially my Greek friend







to get to use 72Hz out of the Lumagen you need to run it at [email protected] for Scope movies. this is called Active Area Scanning r AAS as I call it. Craig Rounds talks about it here in this thread:

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=737385 


Nikos, on the lumagen you will have to find the shrink function to squeeze the image for correct geometry, or do another Squeeze mod on the Marquee's Vertical deflection module and raise the value of the same resistors for the anamorphic Squeeze mod from 56 kohm to 68 kohm resistors. this will give you enough adjustment range to get the correct geometry for 2.40/2.35 scope movies running the [email protected] from the Lumagen or any other processor. After you do the Scope Squeeze mod you will need to initialize the projector so the memories and electronics adjust for the new value resistors, you might even find you'll have a bit more horizontal room, but maybe not.


And Nikos, i might be coming to Greece in September, Via Rome Vincenzo










Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

BTW, Mike, if the good doctor decides he wants to improve his pic with some mods, you'll be the first to know!











b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18322113
> 
> 
> BTW, Mike, if the good doctor decides he wants to improve his pic with some mods, you'll be the first to know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b


----------



## Gary Murrell

first screenie in a loooong time










2002 manuf. Barco 1209s/e

-full Eisemann video mod package

-modified LUG neckcards

-3 LUGs with color filtered c-elements

-Belden mini coax video chain mod, removed over 10 useless PCB connectors

-HD-10L lenses

DVDO VP50pro

-output resolution 4:4:4 YPbPr 1920x800p/72hz

-HDFury2

-Box1021 gamma adjustment

-ultra short 10" RGBHV cable to port 5

Oppo BDP-83 with my custom mods(discontinued)

-4:2:2 source direct output into VP50pro

Draper M1300 Cineperm 82" wide 2.40:1 screen

 


more soon, when I get time...yes this is a lowly 480i DVD, just wanted to show how capable the system is


-Gary


----------



## mp20748




----------



## dvh99

another testpic now with some ambient light.

red & blue p19lcp green pt22 p45 (way sharper) 6000hr on the tubes

tdk 59:28 1920*1080 72hz











9500lc ultra


----------



## dvh99

a bit later and darker


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18335017
> 
> 
> a bit later and darker



Much better, Looks good!!


Athanasios


----------



## dvh99

tx nash, if its too dark the camera misses out on a lot of detail (tres petit lenses on those cheap cameras).

thought it was nice to shoot a comparisonshot with a little bit of light (sunlight).

i cannot change the closing time of the iris.


----------



## mp20748

Been working all day on my latest mod, which is retro-fit gamma circuit to replace the existing gamma circuit on the VIM..










More later


*untouched 1080P*


----------



## SteveMo

iris 1


----------



## nashou66

dvh99, look to see if you have a night time mode on your camera, even the cheap ones do, sometimes they have a sub menu to allow "long" exposure , this will need a tripod as the shutter will stay open longer. My fuji f10 has this.


Athanasios


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18336533
> 
> 
> Been working all day on my latest mod, which is retro-fit gamma circuit to replace the existing gamma circuit on the VIM..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More later
> 
> 
> *untouched 1080P*



That's what I'm talking about!!!

Looking great Mike!!! I can see a huge difference with your previous screenshots!


----------



## SteveMo

I did a calibration using AVS patterns.


----------



## Prehjan

Ahh "Roller" girl!


What a cutie pie she is!!!


Martin


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18314139
> 
> 
> Hello my friends,
> 
> I have found the problem: it is into the switch. Infact I have tried, with the same cable that connects the switch and the proj, to connect directly the PS3 and the proj. So they work very well.
> 
> Now I'm searching for a quick solution.
> 
> This is the switch:
> http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%205port.htm
> 
> 
> Why it doesn't work?



This octavainc switch that you have found has some impressive specs! and for 70 bucks more than the OPPO...not bad!


Also try and check out OPPO's site! Their switcher has been working very well for me thus far. and it is around a 100 bucks...so not too bad. I know that there are 30 dollar switchers out there but they probably such!

oh and you will not be able to feed a 1080p/24 into a Moome, you will need something like 1080p/60!


Good luck


Martin


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18314139
> 
> 
> Hello my friends,
> 
> I have found the problem: it is into the switch. Infact I have tried, with the same cable that connects the switch and the proj, to connect directly the PS3 and the proj. So they work very well.
> 
> Now I'm searching for a quick solution.
> 
> This is the switch:
> http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%205port.htm
> 
> 
> Why it doesn't work?



I'm just curious, isn't the power in Italy 50Hz ? Since some equipment locks to the line frequency, do you ever have that kind of problem?


Also, I looked at the specs on the switch and it claims to be HDCP compatible, however, I've seen LOTS of problems with HDCP equipment and things that "claim" to be compatible with it. In the case of the switch, because the supply side is switchable to the display device that sends the handshake (projector in this case with Moome card), maybe the handshake isn't good because of the switching.


It's just a thought. Good luck in your endeavor.


----------



## Prehjan

Techman


I also aw the hdcp compliant claim and that raised an eyebrow for me....my first VP was a centerstage cs2 and it too claimed to be hdcp compliant, although it did work with my Scientific Atlanta cable box via hdmi it did not work with anything else...go figure!


Martin


----------



## cencio

Many thanks for your opinions and help


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18354300
> 
> 
> Techman
> 
> 
> I also aw the hdcp compliant claim and that raised an eyebrow for me....my first VP was a centerstage cs2 and it too claimed to be hdcp compliant, although it did work with my Scientific Atlanta cable box via hdmi it did not work with anything else...go figure!
> 
> 
> Martin



Funny you should mention the CS2. Down in Florida I have a CS2 I used going into a JVC HX2. I can feed a PS3 to the CS2 and then to the HX2 and HDCP works. But I had a Sony CX995 DVD jukebox that scales SD DVDs to 1080, but only when it's fed to an HDCP compatible display. But if I feed it to the CS2 first, it won't upscale, there's something it doesn't like about "something" the CS2 is doing (I guess







). The CS2 isn't that bad otherwise. The one I have also has the SDI input board.


----------



## Mr Bob

Let's get clear on what "HDCP works" means, when we're talking about HDCP and HDMI.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that "HDCP compliant" will mean that under the appropriate - or seemingly so anyway - conditions, the signal just won't get thru because it's being blocked by the copyguard of HDCP. Isn't that what HDCP is all about?


I had a sit where I was doing an install of some new equipment purchased at a big box store. If I HU'd the flat panel display via HDMI directly to the Comcast STB, things worked just fine.


But if I took the HDMI thru the Pioneer AVR for switching, the sig was visible for a few seconds then died.


I called Pioneer about it and found that when an AVR is inline with the signal path - even just for switching only - that triggers the HDCP to go to work and block the signal. The AVR, after all, *could* be an HD recording machine of some type! Piracy! Danger Will Robinson...


Which was why it worked fine with nothing *between* the source and the display. The display evidently does not trigger the HDCP detection circuits re. the built-in HDCP safeguards, while anything resembling a processor - or recorder - does.


I had to leave the signal using component instead. And component is not necessarily the best signal path for a lot of the new fixed pixel displays, who have no respect for component now that HDMI is available. As such they just don't put any R&D into making the electronics of their component circuits excellent, like CRT always has. Too bad they don't just use some of the former, excellent component circuitry from past - now considered "dated" I guess - displays. Maybe the royalties of doing so would be just too much cost to bear...


After all, HDCP is not meant for anything but protecting copyrighted video material. That's its only purpose. There is no upside, as far as video viewing goes.


Does "HDCP compliant" mean that the detection circuits should only detect an HD recorder at play - and shut down the signal in response - and leave the rest of the signal path alone whenever there is no recording going on, and no HD recorder detected?



b


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18355759
> 
> 
> Let's get clear on what "HDCP works" means, when we're talking about HDCP and HDMI.
> 
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that "HDCP compliant" will mean that under the appropriate - or seemingly so anyway - conditions, the signal just won't get thru because it's being blocked by the copyguard of HDCP. Isn't that what HDCP is all about?
> 
> 
> I had a sit where I was doing an install of some new equipment purchased at a big box store. If I HU'd the flat panel display via HDMI directly to the Comcast STB, things worked just fine.
> 
> 
> But if I took the HDMI thru the Pioneer AVR for switching, the sig was visible for a few seconds then died.
> 
> 
> I called Pioneer about it and found that when an AVR is inline with the signal path - even just for switching only - that triggers the HDCP to go to work and block the signal. The AVR, after all, *could* be an HD recording machine of some type! Piracy! Danger Will Robinson...
> 
> 
> Which was why it worked fine with nothing *between* the source and the display. The display evidently does not trigger the HDCP detection circuits re. the built-in HDCP safeguards, while anything resembling a processor - or recorder - does.
> 
> 
> I had to leave the signal using component instead. And component is not necessarily the best signal path for a lot of the new fixed pixel displays, who have no respect for component now that HDMI is available. As such they just don't put any R&D into making the electronics of their component circuits excellent, like CRT always has. Too bad they don't just use some of the former, excellent component circuitry from past - now considered "dated" I guess - displays. Maybe the royalties of doing so would be just too much cost to bear...
> 
> 
> After all, HDCP is not meant for anything but protecting copyrighted video material. That's its only purpose. There is no upside, as far as video viewing goes.
> 
> 
> Does "HDCP compliant" mean that the detection circuits should only detect an HD recorder at play - and shut down the signal in response - and leave the rest of the signal path alone whenever there is no recording going on, and no HD recorder detected?
> 
> 
> 
> b



"HDCP compliant" means that when connected through or with the appropriate equipment, A 1080 HD signal will PASS THROUGH and display an HD signal on the HDCP compliant TV or projector. The source device talks to the display device and sends handshaking signals back and forth.


I have a Pioneer Elite receiver that is "claimed" to be HDCP compliant. So far it works fine switching, but, they DON'T guarantee it will work with ANY HDCP device. There are different versions of HDCP, but they were "supposed" to be backward compatible with the original spec, so that people with equipment with the first version wouldn't be left out in the cold. HDCP is just an honest consumers nightmare since devices like HDFURY defeat it.


P.S. If HDCP flags are turned on in the source material, analog signals will be shutdown.


----------



## dvh99

2 more tdk




















marquee was sonst


----------



## cencio

I have found the solution to my problem.

My friend Simone is an HT operator. He has projected a new scaler that now appears with the last release. This has one input for any type of source output.
http://www.hdcinescaler.com/ 

So I can connected avery source to the switch and the to the HDMI input of the scaler. The PS3 output in 1080p/24 and the scaler makes to 1080p/50 or 60. I will try and let you know.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18356647
> 
> 
> HDCP is just an honest consumers nightmare since devices like HDFURY defeat it.
> 
> 
> P.S. If HDCP flags are turned on in the source material, analog signals will be shutdown.



Having a way around the source material being compromised/shut down on component that is transferring 1080i/p is an honest person's nightmare???


I'll tell you what the honest person's nightmare is. Not having a way to have upconverted 480i to 1080i reach my component-only - or HDMI challenged, as mine is - display is my nightmare, and I am a *very* honest consumer. Disables my entire SD library, which I spent copious amounts of $ on at the time.


Not having a way for a fine scaler like the VP50 to get the signal to the display unimpeded - and not shut down, as happens without the Fury - is my nightmare.


I don't feel bad at all that I use an HD Fury. I have no desire - nor even any way - to record HD for piracy purposes, and have an extreme dislike/distaste for having the choice taken out of my hands, just because there *seems* to be some theoretical way - have no idea what it is, have never heard of one - to record HD for piracy purposes on discs via component.


Even my Panasonic DVHS requires firewire to record HD with, and requires the matched Panasonic ATSC OTA tuner to do that. And it does *only* that. OTA.


I know of no way to record HD for piracy purposes, with or without HDCP. What I do know is that HDCP is a thorn in all of our sides, and makes waves none of us like.


If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, please correct me -











b


----------



## mp20748

Took these while the projector warms up with ambient light in the room. later this evening after the sun goes down and tighten the convergence and focus and take more shots at the resolution I'm using...


*HTPC 1920x1080P @ 72hz Desktop*


----------



## dvh99

mike do you use the moome for your pc cause my letters are cropped.

i cant get a proper screen with hdmi out to moome.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18357799
> 
> 
> Having a way around the source material being compromised/shut down on component that is transferring 1080i/p is an honest person's nightmare???
> 
> 
> I'll tell you what the honest person's nightmare is. Not having a way to have upconverted 480i to 1080i reach my component-only - or HDMI challenged, as mine is - display is my nightmare, and I am a *very* honest consumer. Disables my entire SD library, which I spent copious amounts of $ on at the time.
> 
> 
> Not having a way for a fine scaler like the VP50 to get the signal to the display unimpeded - and not shut down, as happens without the Fury - is my nightmare.
> 
> 
> I don't feel bad at all that I use an HD Fury. I have no desire - nor even any way - to record HD for piracy purposes, and have an extreme dislike/distaste for having the choice taken out of my hands, just because there *seems* to be some theoretical way - have no idea what it is, have never heard of one - to record HD for piracy purposes on discs via component.
> 
> 
> Even my Panasonic DVHS requires firewire to record HD with, and requires the matched Panasonic ATSC OTA tuner to do that. And it does *only* that. OTA.
> 
> 
> I know of no way to record HD for piracy purposes, with or without HDCP. What I do know is that HDCP is a thorn in all of our sides, and makes waves none of us like.
> 
> 
> If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, please correct me -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



I don't know what you thought I was saying, but let me make one thing VERY clear: *I'M ON YOUR SIDE AND I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING WITH RESPECT TO THE EVILS OF HDCP!*










P.S. With the HDFury you shouldn't have ANY PROBLEMS with HDCP (whether you want to play or record HD signals).










.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18357493
> 
> 
> So I can connected every source to the switch and the to the HDMI input of the scaler. The PS3 output in 1080p/24 and the scaler makes to 1080p/50 or 60. I will try and let you know.



It doesn't make any sense to output 1080p/24 and then RESCALE it to 1080p/50 or 60 Hz. That defeats the whole reason for outputting 1080p/24.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18358799
> 
> 
> I don't know what you thought I was saying, but let me make one thing VERY clear: *I'M ON YOUR SIDE AND I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING WITH RESPECT TO THE EVILS OF HDCP!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. With the HDFury you shouldn't have ANY PROBLEMS with HDCP (whether you want to play or record HD signals).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Thanks for straightening that out for me! I thought I must have been misunderstanding something!











b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18358721
> 
> 
> mike do you use the moome for your pc cause my letters are cropped.
> 
> i cant get a proper screen with hdmi out to moome.



No, straight analog from the HTPC.


----------



## dvh99

thats what i ude too, thought you used dvi out.

i once used that and got it to work with xp but not with w7.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18302547



BenQ W5000


----------



## Prehjan

My oh my



I see NO difference whatsoever in between MP's screenshot (though a little bright!) and my favorite technology in the whole wide world....I actually prefer this one to MP's shots!!! (All you need to do to enjoy the "digital" technology as I am enjoying it right now is a three step process: First you need to kill a few people and then get sent to a slammer when they tell you that you will never see daylight again....once you have taken these two steps and have settled into your new home, start shopping for a doctor which you will need to pay 20 "menthol cools" to do a surgical "shine" job for you on your eyes...once you done so you will have the Riddick eyes and you can then start enjoying any "digital" technologies as I have been doing from my bunk in crematoria!!!)


What Bob is describing sounds like there is some latency in the signal path between the two "Handshaking" devices...I have come across this too!


It probably is not Pioneers fault, but who knows...and yes compliant means that if you do the "proper secret dance" for them you will get a high def signal inputed into your display device....that is all it does! (...that and it pisses us off! what theses dam companies do not seem to understand is that we are willing to pay for good material and are not downloading cam'ed versions of it to watch on our uber-mega bucks setups!)


You know what this reminds me of?


Some of these credit card fraud guys use the "identity lock" feature to lock out the real owners from changing their info or stopping payments on the cards that they have been ordering for themselves!!!


...it is the same insanity here but with the movie companies!!! hehe



Martin


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18358836
> 
> 
> It doesn't make any sense to output 1080p/24 and then RESCALE it to 1080p/50 or 60 Hz. That defeats the whole reason for outputting 1080p/24.



The Moome card and the Marquee don't accept the 1080p/24 resolution. The reason is to increase the smoothness of the images.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18361181
> 
> 
> The Moome card and the Marquee don't accept the 1080p/24 resolution. The reason is to increase the smoothness of the images.



He means you should be using a different scan rate if doing 1080P 24 from the source.


If you get a processor, make sure it can do refresh rates up to 72hz.


----------



## Prehjan

The lesson in these pages is that a VP is always needed!



Martin


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18361985
> 
> 
> The lesson in these pages is that a VP is always needed!
> 
> 
> 
> Martin




That may be true, BUT IT HAS TO BE ABLE TO WORK!!!!!!










Some of these companies have done a piss poor job with being able to integrate their HDCP based equipment.


They've done such a poor job, an HONEST PERSON must buy an HDCP defeater just be be able to watch a lousy Blu-Ray disk.


----------



## Prehjan

Techman


I totally agree with your conclusions, I had a job at a home owners house a few days ago doing to automation stuff and when I went into the living room I caught the end conversation what the cable guy was saying to the owner for not using an hdmi interconnect, he said something to this effect...it never works right even when it works when we leave...so we always connect through component!


This guy had a 55 inch plus pioneer and he was actually agreeing with this cable guy as to which gives the better results as if he knew what he was talking about!


Anyhow, one way to combat this problem is to maybe have the cable companies to start passing out hdcp strippers as an add on for all digital boxes....(yeah thats gonna happen!)


Anyhow


Martin


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18361964
> 
> 
> He means you should be using a different scan rate if doing 1080P 24 from the source.
> 
> 
> If you get a processor, make sure it can do refresh rates up to 72hz.




I understand, but the vp that I will buy has the maximum output at 60 Hz.

I'm searching for a vp that has a low cost too. I understand that a Lumagen has more and more performances but has a 4/5000 Euros price too.

You means that in this case it has non sense to buy a vp.

I have also an old CRYSTALIO VPS 2300 not HDCP upgradded that doesn't accept 1080p input.

All this is a great problem.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18362393
> 
> 
> I understand, but the vp that I will buy has the maximum output at 60 Hz.
> 
> I'm searching for a vp that has a low cost too. I understand that a Lumagen has more and more performances but has a 4/5000 Euros price too.
> 
> You means that in this case it has non sense to buy a vp.
> 
> I have also an old CRYSTALIO VPS 2300 not HDCP upgradded that doesn't accept 1080p input.
> 
> All this is a great problem.



Cencio, if your main viewing on your PJ is 2.4 aspect ratio movies from Blu ray then you do not need to run [email protected] For those you can run [email protected] and the Vision HDP series Lumagen Scalers will do this. If you have a HDMI input card it will be no problem. And you can get a Lumagen very cheap now. i just got my second Lumagen HDQ for 425 dollars on videogon. The HDP will also do the same. They Accept [email protected] and also have Primary CMS along with 11 point Gamma Control.


For other aspects the Lumagen will run [email protected] or you can try [email protected]



Athanasios


----------



## cencio

Many thanks Athan!


----------



## Prehjan

My vote is for a lumagen too...forget about the no name scaler/vps, although the one you had found had some good specs...but specs are one thing and performance and working right a totally different ball game!


You should go for a tried and true device such as the lumagens.

It will be ideal to feed it a 1080/24p signal and get a 72 ut of it but there are other avenues you can go by like Nashou pointed out, I guess it all depends on preference and what looks good to you!(...and the gamma circuitry is a must have in my opinion for any CRT pj...well any pj period but it seems to be more useful on a CRT)


What kind of PJ did you have again?


Just my 2 cents Cencio


Martin


----------



## Mr Bob

Vincenzo -


My girlfriend *loves* that saying you have after your handle!




















b


----------



## mp20748

A few warm up shots...


----------



## Prehjan

...that girl from pitch black is such a hottie!!!!


Martin


----------



## Intrepidman09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18357799
> 
> 
> Having a way around the source material being compromised/shut down on component that is transferring 1080i/p is an honest person's nightmare???
> 
> 
> I'll tell you what the honest person's nightmare is. Not having a way to have upconverted 480i to 1080i reach my component-only - or HDMI challenged, as mine is - display is my nightmare, and I am a *very* honest consumer. Disables my entire SD library, which I spent copious amounts of $ on at the time.
> 
> 
> Not having a way for a fine scaler like the VP50 to get the signal to the display unimpeded - and not shut down, as happens without the Fury - is my nightmare.
> 
> 
> I don't feel bad at all that I use an HD Fury. I have no desire - nor even any way - to record HD for piracy purposes, and have an extreme dislike/distaste for having the choice taken out of my hands, just because there *seems* to be some theoretical way - have no idea what it is, have never heard of one - to record HD for piracy purposes on discs via component.
> 
> 
> Even my Panasonic DVHS requires firewire to record HD with, and requires the matched Panasonic ATSC OTA tuner to do that. And it does *only* that. OTA.
> 
> 
> I know of no way to record HD for piracy purposes, with or without HDCP. What I do know is that HDCP is a thorn in all of our sides, and makes waves none of us like.
> 
> 
> If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, please correct me -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Bob,


The downstairs HTPC I just built has a built-in blue-ray player. I can copy (and remove the HDCP) direct to my HDD (This means full, lossless digital to digital), with freeware, no problem. I wouldn't, but I could. If I had bought a blue-ray burner I could be Jack Sparrow.


Just to give you the specs (as you know, I had to return the board and order a different brand, but it worked, briefly. My new board will be here shortly)


HDMI 1080p (I can re-size the screen and shift it around using the computers display console. IOW, I can get ANY desired resolution up to and including full HD.)

7.1 sound through s/pdif

4 gig ram

250 g SATA HD (I had one laying around)

beautiful HDPC case

built-ir receiver

Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit.

gigabit wireless lan so I can stream HD content recorded over the air.


This little box cost around $500 bux


(The upstairs box I built can record over 500 hours of HD over the air broadcasts 2 channels at a time, and can record 2 channels while playing 1 recording while streaming yet another to the downstairs box. Pause, skip, rewind, blah, blah, blah. And do everything (except blue-ray) that the downstairs box will do, for maybe 600 bux.)


It's a powerful PC, so I can play any content on the internet (Windows Media Center makes that really easy for a large number of sites.)

It's hooked up to my gigbit network, so I can stream recorded over the air HD shows from my HD-DVR.

It's a decent game machine.

It can stream netflix.

It can play blue-ray disks.


They make motherboards that are custom-made for building a HTPC for $79, shipped. They have practically everything needed (except drives, memory and chip) right on the board.











Got connections?


Of course, since it is a micro ATX board I got a small and stylish case:










It's only 14.5 inches wide, and less than 4 inches tall.


Bottom line, I have only 1 source downstairs. NO switching at all.


----------



## suki1987

I have no need to post screen shots, my projector isn't an extension of my already abnormally large penis


----------



## Prehjan

hehehe



i thought for a second that I was in the htpc section...


Martin


----------



## Intrepidman09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18368027
> 
> 
> hehehe
> 
> 
> 
> i thought for a second that I was in the htpc section...
> 
> 
> Martin



Naw, I was showing how dreadfully simple it is to copy blue-ray disks.


----------



## cencio

Martin, Bob, Athan and Mike, my friend (may I call you so?) I'm glad and onoured of your helps and I would like have all you in Italy as soon as possible.

I have understand that the vp is the next and fondamental thing to buy. And the Lumagen Radiance or the DVDO Vision 50 pro are the two choices.

To do this I need quickly sell some of my many new but unused components:
*Mini-UDCSN: Up/Down/Cross Converter with Noise Reduction and ARC*

and
*AJA HD 10 C2 HD/SDI to VGA converter*

In your opinion what is the best way to sell these worldwide?

May I use the area *source for sale* of this forum? Or is ebay better?

Thanks


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Intrepidman09* /forum/post/18369104
> 
> 
> Naw, I was showing how dreadfully simple it is to copy blue-ray disks.



Gee, does that mean there is still a place for HDCP/HDMI? That it is actually justified after all, to keep people from copying copyrighted HD material?


Or does it take a similarly equipped person at the receiving end to use all of the above? Which would leave out the masses...


I won't ask any more critical questions here, as I don't want this thread to come up on some Big Brother radar screen...












b


PS - Great chatting with you yesterday on the phone. Looking forward to tearing into your sys and fully supertweaking your 4x3 HD Panny once you get your DVR's mother board back...


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18369164
> 
> 
> Martin, Bob, Athan and Mike, my friend (may I call you so?) I'm glad and onoured of your helps and I would like have all you in Italy as soon as possible.
> 
> I have understand that the vp is the next and fondamental thing to buy. And the Lumagen Radiance or the DVDO Vision 50 pro are the two choices.
> 
> To do this I need quickly sell some of my many new but unused components:
> *Mini-UDCSN: Up/Down/Cross Converter with Noise Reduction and ARC*
> 
> and
> *AJA HD 10 C2 HD/SDI to VGA converter*
> 
> In your opinion what is the best way to sell these worldwide?
> 
> May I use the area *source for sale* of this forum? Or is ebay better?
> 
> Thanks



Not real experienced at such things, but some of my owners have been. They deal with ebay every day, buying and selling, getting ferocious deals and getting rid of the not so good.


Good luck!


b


----------



## bassfreak

I just finished going through this whole thread and man you guys are awesome.


Keep them coming.


Mr Bob,


Have you had a chance to use the Gamma X or the Gamma adjustment on your blu-ray yet?


----------



## Mr Bob

Using that requires a RGB to component converter, which presently is not real available to me. I asked them to send me one to try it out, but they declined because of the economy. They were very generous in sending me a Gamma X along with the HD Fury II, tho, and the II has been glorious!


I have been contacted recently by Moome, who has a new component box coming out that needs field testing. I have thoroughly described my sys and that I only use component, and he is very interested in what I find with his box. According to emails between us, it was sent out this past weekend. It hasn't got her yet, but I expect it any day now.


I will put results up here as soon as it gets here and I've had time to field test it. I'll let you know when I know more.



b


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18369778
> 
> 
> I have been contacted recently by Moome, who has a new component box coming out that needs field testing. I have thoroughly described my sys and that I only use component, and he is very interested in what I find with his box. According to emails between us, it was sent out this past weekend. It hasn't got her yet, but I expect it any day now.
> 
> 
> I will put results up here as soon as it gets here and I've had time to field test it. I'll let you know when I know more.
> 
> 
> 
> b



Nice.


----------



## Intrepidman09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18369207
> 
> 
> Gee, does that mean there is still a place for HDCP/HDMI? That it is actually justified after all, to keep people from copying copyrighted HD material?
> 
> 
> Or does it take a similarly equipped person at the receiving end to use all of the above? Which would leave out the masses...
> 
> 
> I won't ask any more critical questions here, as I don't want this thread to come up on some Big Brother radar screen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> 
> PS - Great chatting with you yesterday on the phone. Looking forward to tearing into your sys and fully supertweaking your 4x3 HD Panny once you get your DVR's mother board back...



IMHO the only real reason for HDMI(which is really the same as DVI with sound)/HDCP is to force people to buy new technology and keep the manufacturers from building a blue-ray player/burner.


For the technically savvy. IE people who realize that CRTs rule or can build their own HTPCs its an annoyance.


----------



## Intrepidman09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18369207
> 
> 
> Gee, does that mean there is still a place for HDCP/HDMI? That it is actually justified after all, to keep people from copying copyrighted HD material?
> 
> 
> Or does it take a similarly equipped person at the receiving end to use all of the above? Which would leave out the masses...
> 
> 
> I won't ask any more critical questions here, as I don't want this thread to come up on some Big Brother radar screen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> 
> PS - Great chatting with you yesterday on the phone. Looking forward to tearing into your sys and fully supertweaking your 4x3 HD Panny once you get your DVR's mother board back...



Me too. Once I get the HTPC set up I will take a pic of the DVI overscan screen (with no correction other than screen position through the PC) so we can figure out how big to make the shims.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Intrepidman09* /forum/post/18370254
> 
> 
> IMHO the only real reason for HDMI(which is really the same as DVI with sound)/HDCP is to force people to buy new technology and keep the manufacturers from building a blue-ray player/burner.
> 
> 
> For the technically savvy. IE people who realize that CRTs rule or can build their own HTPCs its an annoyance.



It's NOT the equipment manufacturers, it's the "content providers" (eg. the Motion Picture Association of America) who are in a constant state of believing they are losing money to piracy.







IMHO, it's all in their head.










But at least for HTPC users with an HDMI with HDCP output there is ANYDVDHD.


----------



## SteveMo

ProPhoto RGB











sRGB


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18370669
> 
> 
> ProPhoto RGB
> 
> 
> sRGB



While the ProPhoto RGB colorspace has more accurate looking colors than the sRGB, why is the ProPhoto RGB so dark compared to the sRGB?


or is it just the saturation?


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18371263
> 
> 
> While the ProPhoto RGB colorspace has more accurate looking colors than the sRGB, why is the ProPhoto RGB so dark compared to the sRGB?
> 
> 
> or is it just the saturation?



I shot the photos using sRGB mode on my camera so it may have something to do with the saturation. When I shoot in Adobe RGB I get more saturated looking images, but tint does not look as accurate since Adobe RGB does not use the CIE triangle like PhotoPro RGB or sRGB does. My exposure time also effects saturation so when I expose longer, I get better looking shadow details, and more saturation, but not as good highlights. If I expose too long I can also clip one color, (red green or blue) while others are not effected, which can also cause banding.


The PhotoPro RGB uses more compression, but can handle with a greater intensity of colors. Bellow is an example. If you are viewing in an older web browser it may not support the ProPhoto RGB, which in case they would look sepia, and very under-saturated. Firefox supports this ICC profile, but internet explorer does not by default. The gray area represents intensity. I selected 4-85 in the histogram viewer. Notice how there is more visible shadow detail in the Photo Pro software as well.


What your seeing is the difference in color space used to process the RAW format.










sRGB




















ProPhoto RGB


----------



## nashou66

Cencio, go to Videogon or Audiogon to sell the parts, Or on the Curtpalme.com/forum buy and sell section.


Cencio, the Lumagen HDP and HDQ are quite capable processors and can be found cheap used. the radiance is awesome but very expensive.


And the DVDO support lately has been non existent for the VP50 from what i have heard.


Athanasios


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18371838
> 
> 
> I shot the photos using sRGB mode on my camera so it may have something to do with the saturation. When I shoot in Adobe RGB I get more saturated looking images, but tint does not look as accurate since Adobe RGB does not use the CIE triangle like PhotoPro RGB or sRGB does. My exposure time also effects saturation so when I expose longer, I get better looking shadow details, and more saturation, but not as good highlights. If I expose too long I can also clip one color, (red green or blue) while others are not effected, which can also cause banding.
> 
> 
> The PhotoPro RGB uses more compression, but can handle with a greater intensity of colors. Bellow is an example. If you are viewing in an older web browser it may not support the ProPhoto RGB, which in case they would look sepia, and very under-saturated. Firefox supports this ICC profile, but internet explorer does not by default. The gray area represents intensity. I selected 4-85 in the histogram viewer. Notice how there is more visible shadow detail in the Photo Pro software as well.
> 
> 
> What your seeing is the difference in color space used to process the RAW format.



That's very interesting. There's no doubt about it the ProPhoto RGB looks better.


----------



## cencio

I have buyed the Lumagen Radiance XS with SDI and output up to 75Hz.


----------



## SteveMo

This interesting also. Just revieved a 1923 newspaper clipping about my greatgrandfather. He had married a russian princess that had died during the revolution. He moved to america and brought her sister to live with him but she wanted to be waited on hand and foot. He later (with friends) helped fund the starting of MGM. Mayer had later only given the money back wihtout interest and refused us shares. It's in the biography we are getting a copy of. Here is the headline in the article about the russian princess (sister of my greatgrandfathers wife). We are getting a copy that is not an original so we can actually read the article.



> Quote:
> Brothers Refusal of $1000 to Train Girl for Career in Movies Angers Princess.


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/18377020
> 
> 
> I have buyed the Lumagen Radiance XS with SDI and output up to 75Hz.



Excellent choice! You just bought a ticket to CRT heaven! Enjoy!!!


----------



## nashou66

























































A really nice transfer i have to say. Lots of helicopter moving pans, helicopter going one direction while camera moves the other. A real test I bet for Digital as on the CRT there is a blur, but that can be from the filming itself as well.


Movie title is Actually *Escape to Athena*, I can not edit the title.


Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell

damn!! gonna have to grab that, nice Walther P38 pointed at that orthodox priest LOL










-Gary


----------



## dvh99

isnt that a luger?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18386132
> 
> 
> isnt that a luger?



No, it's a P38 which was intended to replace the Luger P08 according to Wikipedia. It does look sort of like a Luger though. Trust me, Gary knows his guns.


----------



## dvh99

imdb says escape to athena

i guess they are not escaping from but to athena


----------



## dvh99

i see, wasnt sure as im not a gun expert, most dangerous thing in my hands ever was a slingshot.


----------



## Prehjan

It is a Luger! Gary is thinking of the police issue Walters that Hitler actually shot himself and Miss Braun with!


Almost everyone will assume that he committed suicide with a Luger, but it was indeed a Walter. (...maybe he should have also poked himself in the eyes, with a dull deer antler also!) also in between the cyanide and the bullet!)


Martin


----------



## Mr Bob

Walt*h*er, I think...as in Walther PPK, tho I have no idea what that looks like, have just heard of it...


b


----------



## Prehjan

Mr Bob is absolutely correct it was a PPk!


Martin


----------



## dvh99




----------



## Prehjan

Did you guys know that there are also Japanese armed forces copies/remakes of these awesome Luger's left around from WWII?


Martin


----------



## cencio

Hi Guys,

the last pics before Lumagen. I have made some colour temp adjustments.

I have used the Toshiba XE1 HDDVD player. Always 1080i.

All images are only resized with PhSh

At first some pictures from SPANGLISH standard DVD:





























While these are images from King Kong HDDVD:


----------



## Webmonkey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18388223
> 
> 
> Walt*h*er, I think...as in Walther PPK, tho I have no idea what that looks like, have just heard of it...
> 
> 
> b




PPK is THE James Bond gun....


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


I was wondering what sort of automatic pistol John Travolta is packing towards the end of the movie Broken Arrow, is it real or a fictitious prop?


----------



## Prehjan

Probably


I think Hitler's suicide gun was the Walter "perebellum" or something!


Martin


----------



## mp20748

A few more after my two latest upgrades..










*Un-converged raw 1080P*


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Hehe


Russell Crowe, surrounded, no sword, no axe, no phone to throw.......


----------



## mp20748

Vincenzo, you make me proud..










I know your setup isn't where it should be or where you would want it. But it still represents that VIM well.


And your upgrading to the Lumagen was the best thing you could have done to compliment that Super 02 VIM.


can't wait to see more once you get the Lumagen in your system..


----------



## Gary Murrell

LOL ok, I see lots of gun talk here, so I gotta answer:


Martin, the Japanese Luger clone is the Nambu pistol, chambered in its own cartridge which is 8mm Nambu


Tim, yes, the Beretta 92 chambered in 9mm Luger is available in a full auto version (model 93R), this is what Travolta has in Broken Arrow( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_93R )


Hitler killed himself with a Walter PPK chambered in 7.65mm (.32 acp), yes this is the exact gun that bond carries and in the same caliber


the German officer in the screenshots has a Walther P38 chambered in 9mm Luger, the most popular caliber in the world is 9mm Luger and it was developed originally for the Luger pistol


Germans carried a variety of sidearms in WWII, either a Luger or the Walther P38, the higher up officers often carried the much smaller Walther PPK


Walther p38:











Luger (p08):











Walther PPK:











-Gary


----------



## Prehjan

Gary.


...you "saucy savage" we/I had no idea!.


Thank you for the info anyhow! (Specially about the "Nambu"...or whatever these Japanese knock-offs are called!)


For me personally it is fast cars, audio/video, fast "pro grade" computers/hardware, and the usual "dash" of opposite sex to make things a little more interesting?! (...although than one has been pretty monotonous these past few weeks/months....hope she never sees/reads these postings of mine....hehe!)


Keep them coming guys/gals


Martin


----------



## Gary Murrell

no problem, guns, HT and bowling...my 3 passions LOL


-Gary


----------



## SteveMo

The camera battery is charging and the projector is warming up. I will get some more later.


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## atlemusic

Media Player Classic. Added Shader: Complex Charpen. (Really nice for CRT)

1440x810p / 72hz --> Moome 1.3 (max gamma) --> A Sony G70 40 Bright / 76 Contr 2,3m wide



















Straight from Canon IXUS 85 (re sized) Original Original 



I'm not happy with the "yellowness" though.. The color does not separate like some other here.. Any suggestions?

My settings are:

Gain

168

229

255


Bias

52

60

52


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/18403430
> 
> 
> Media Player Classic. Added Shader: Complex Charpen. (Really nice for CRT)
> 
> 1440x810p / 72hz --> Moome 1.3 (max gamma) --> A Sony G70 40 Bright / 76 Contr 2,3m wide
> 
> 
> I'm not happy with the "yellowness" though.. The color does not separate like some other here.. Any suggestions?
> 
> My settings are:
> 
> Gain
> 
> 168
> 
> 229
> 
> 255
> 
> 
> Bias
> 
> 52
> 
> 60
> 
> 52



You might try setting your contrast initially a little higher while you do your white balance, or try aiming your meter directly at the CRT. You would be calibrating for peak brightness, and 30% grey instead of 80% . I used to adjust temp while watching magenta in the color bars, then do color balance. A better way might be to check color ramps.


----------



## SteveMo

Some shots from the AVS MP4 setup files.


Warmer, sometimes yellow (for if bellow 40% looks too cool).



















Less warm, sometimes red or blue (for if above 40% looks too warm).


----------



## Summit HDTV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/18403430
> 
> 
> Media Player Classic. Added Shader: Complex Charpen. (Really nice for CRT)
> 
> 1440x810p / 72hz --> Moome 1.3 (max gamma) --> A Sony G70 40 Bright / 76 Contr 2,3m wide
> 
> 
> 
> Straight from Canon IXUS 85 (re sized) Original Original
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not happy with the "yellowness" though.. The color does not separate like some other here.. Any suggestions?
> 
> My settings are:
> 
> Gain
> 
> 168
> 
> 229
> 
> 255
> 
> 
> Bias
> 
> 52
> 
> 60
> 
> 52



Hello,


Set the color and hue to proper (blue only) first. If you have a meter then SteveMo has ideas for you. Try viewing black and white material to critique the color of gray. There should be no obvious color bias. The color of gray should be like the color of clouds on an overcast day.


As SteveMo indicated color ramps or a chip chart are good patterns to show grayscale errors. But first go for the low hanging fruit and set color and hue to correct. You can cover R and G for color and hue adjustment. SteveMo courteously posted the color bars. Note the Tint and Color bars. Match each TintTint and ColorColor bar and note they may interact with each other. After color and hue adjustment then critique the color of gray. Good luck!


Regards


----------



## atlemusic

Ok thank's Steve and Summit. I think i have those mp4 files but no meter though. Will give it a try tonight perhaps


----------



## Gary Murrell

atle, your shots look great, but you have a bit of ringing going on there










-Gary


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Summit HDTV* /forum/post/18406793
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> Set the color and hue to proper (blue only) first. If you have a meter then SteveMo has ideas for you. Try viewing black and white material to critique the color of gray. There should be no obvious color bias. The color of gray should be like the color of clouds on an overcast day.
> 
> 
> As SteveMo indicated color ramps or a chip chart are good patterns to show grayscale errors. But first go for the low hanging fruit and set color and hue to correct. You can cover R and G for color and hue adjustment. SteveMo courteously posted the color bars. Note the Tint and Color bars. Match each TintTint and ColorColor bar and note they may interact with each other. After color and hue adjustment then critique the color of gray. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Regards



Actually the color of gray can only be critiqued accurately when there is no color present. Changing Color and Tint will do nothing with no color present, under normal op'ing conditions they will not alter the color of gray at all. Ideally at least, when correct it will still look like an overcast cloudy day, with no color biasing going on in any particular direction.


Some brands have such a level of interaction among all these things that in extreme cases this will not apply, such as when you take the Color level all the way down on a Toshiba CRT RPTV, the screen turns bright Kryptonite green.


But this is a rare case, and only applies in such extreme conditions.


The usual case is that changing color or tint a nominal amount will not change anything when only a b/w pic is present. If interaction is noticed when you do, then yes you need to go back and forth till both color and b/w look correct.


As Joe says tho, it's best to have Color and Tint at least as close as possible to where they should be JIC, before you really critique the grayscale.


b


----------



## SteveMo

I have to use luminance on my projector as a means of controlling greyscale because my saturation control does not effect color above a certain point. Saturation does not effect my points linear however as red, green, and blue are separate in gamma, blue being the lowest. To make things even more interesting, I must also set brightness correctly as the gain on my screen can cause white above a certain point to measure wrong, especially with regards to distance and measurement angle. It's such a chore getting it to look close to my last projector. Speaking of which, I might end up getting a new 6PG+ this year. The cost of replacing lamps is looking to be very expensive given the amount of viewing time. There is just talk of doing this, but maybe something different instead.


----------



## atlemusic

I'm pretty close now when i compare to mp20748's picture of Gladiator. I use gamma 2.5 / 6900k.


It seems like i have to much Saturation going on but i cant find where to lower it. Any suggestion for this?


Gary--> Ringing? ahh yes, i thought i would get some rounded screen feeling but i dont know really. And now i'm all used to it


----------



## SteveMo

My lowly direct view CRT calibrated with my spectrometer (except for brightness/contrast)









(ProPhoto RGB - browser color management required)


----------



## SteveMo

uhhh ohhh. Have the only shots really been as you will say is "adjusted? wrong after over a decade. Please don't waste our time.







You can succeed where you have most definitely failed...


----------



## Prehjan

OK


One last thing about the Luger pistols!


It will probably not be news to Gary's ears but to most others it is probably a little known fact:


There were two, (...possibly three) .45 ACP Luger pistols made for the 1920 army trials, this is before WWII and when the German gun maker was trying to get the US army contract for their Luger pistols.


Serial number 1 and 2 I think...The first one was destroyed in the army's test trials and melted down, but the second one survived and is probably on display at the Smithsonian or something like that!


...and guess what: That one is truly a "million dollar gun"!


Just a little bit of Luger related fun facts for all of you reading this!


Martin


----------



## Gary Murrell

oh yeah, .45acp Luger is one of the rarest guns ever sought after, worth around 1 million clams like you said







......too rich for my blood haha


-Gary


----------



## mp20748

dang, I turn my back on this thread for a moment and you guys turn it into a war zone.


Now what does guns have to do with screenshots. Unless the guns are in the CRT's..












I have a Lumagen Radiance coming today, so that means I'll be back firing all three guns fully loaded...


it's going to be *Full 1080P 72hz* all the way..


----------



## napos

Looking forward to the Lumagen shots Mike!

By the way, I just ordered the latest Moome card with your improvements. What should I expect in comparison to the previous HDMI moome card (the one with the 2 HDMI inputs)?


I will be ceiling mounting my 8500 on Friday and can't wait to enjoy CRT heaven again!!!


----------



## Gary Murrell

way too many knobs to twist on that Radiance Mike, have fun










-Gary


----------



## dochlywd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18446513
> 
> 
> dang, I turn my back on this thread for a moment and you guys turn it into a war zone.
> 
> 
> Now what does guns have to do with screenshots. Unless the guns are in the CRT's..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Lumagen Radiance coming today, so that means I'll be back firing all three guns fully loaded...
> 
> 
> it's going to be *Full 1080P 72hz* all the way..




Hopefully that will be with a red C-Element isntalled and it firing onto a 110" ST130!!!!!!!!!!!!










Hope all is well Mike!


Doc


----------



## nashou66

This was the Gun shot.











Nashou


----------



## Mr Bob

I just posted this as a new thread here in the CRT Projectors section. I am sure everyone here already knows all this - hell it's elementary for us - but guess where I sent them to verify what I am saying!














It has come to my attention that many triple gun CRT front projectors are still up and running on line doublers, triplers and quadruplers. These owners are pleased with their displays, which have been the best for decades. But many are now wondering about HD and whether they should buy new to get it.

*DON'T!*


There is no need for that! It would be a *downgrade!*


You gotta remember, HD was not around when these front projectors were designed and built, but that the projectors themselves were designed for the highest of scanrates, then and in the future, many of them much higher than today's HD. As such, they can do 1080i and 1080p standing on their heads!


The best they had to use back then was Faroudja and Runco and 480i, and line doubling, tripling and quadrupling was the only game in town. C Band satellite - the big dish - was the best possible picture. Your projector was CAPABLE of HD, but there was no HD yet, to display. It was still just a gleam in the eyes of its inventors.


Those who were lucky enough to have a C band in their back yard had the best possible picture, and those who had to play their content from other sources had fantastic scalers to make up the difference as much as possible.


Now everything has changed, and HD knocks the socks off any scaler built back then. The important thing is, you don't have to replace your display to get HD! And HD looks better on triple gun CRT than even the best Faroudja, Runco Controller or Crystal Image upconverter did back then.


It also looks better than most of the fixed pixels you can buy out there today. And still has the best blacks in the game, for depth and shadow detail.


I am currently working on a DWIN CRT projector, and the owner and the integrator and I just sat down the other day to discuss it. These things all came out, and it's the second time in 2 months where this discussion had to happen. The other was a Marquee LC 9500 installation and calibration in San Luis Obispo, for a doctor.

*KEEP YOUR CRT DISPLAY!* Get it calibrated and put HD thru it and have images you only dreamed of, with how your display was originally set up.


If you want proof, check out the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread here on the AVS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831 











Mr Bob


----------



## SteveMo

ProPhoto RGB - browser color management support required


----------



## mp20748

*A few quickies with the Lumagen Radiance now in the chain at a whopping 1920x1080P @ 72hz*


Shots are straight from the camera - 100% UNtouched!


----------



## Prehjan

...got Marquee indeed!!! (Or any mid/higher end CRT!!!)


Martin


----------



## Gary Murrell

should be "got Barco?"










-Gary


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies with the radiance in the chain all shot at 1080P 72hz. I'll do more later this week once I dial the PJ in to the scan rate...

*1920x1080P 72hz*


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## mp20748

A few more done with convergence off - straight from the camera - Un-touched!


*1920x1080P 72HZ - UNCalibrated*


----------



## Prehjan

Oh that girl from the black book is soooooooo hot! (The kinda "dripping" sensuality only a European babe could have!!!)


Martin


----------



## SteveMo

W5000 - 9ft projected image onto a wall. Not calibrated.


----------



## mp20748

*A little overexposed (contrast too high) but still untouched 1080P 72hz...*


----------



## Prehjan

...oh and the shot of her in the blackbook dying her privates blonde to fool the Nazis is not too bad either!


Gary, how about got CRT? (Instead of Barco or Marquee or NEC!!!)


Maybe MP's caption should just ask: "It's all about performance...Got CRT?" period!


Martin


----------



## Gary Murrell

I can go with that, got CRT?










-Gary


----------



## nashou66

























































Still not Calibrated so its pushing Blue, a little bit more red on the right PJ as well.

Not sure what I am doing wrong with the iOne Pro but i am not getting the proper readings.

If i go by what the probe says everything goes brownish red mid IREs and yellow greenish Higher IRE's


BTW these Discs are a must Have, I thought the special editions of each movie spread out on 4 SD DVDS that have less compression looked good. these rock!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

*1920x1080P 72hz*

*

100% un-touched, not sharpened, straight from the camera...
*


----------



## CIR-Engineering

That is really looking great Mike!


craigr


----------



## dvh99

i thought u had the banding fix mike, why is your geometry still off?

btw do you have lugs or lcp tubes.


dennis


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CIR-Engineering* /forum/post/18466634
> 
> 
> That is really looking great Mike!
> 
> 
> craigr


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18468552
> 
> 
> i thought u had the banding fix mike, why is your geometry still off?
> 
> btw do you have lugs or lcp tubes.
> 
> 
> dennis



Banding is fixed... and maybe I'll one day get around to doing the geometry. Right now, I'm thinking maybe I should wait on the lenses I want first.


I'm still using the stock LCP tubes. It's the advanced focus system I'm using that's helping out the tubes here..


----------



## dvh99

this is getting confusing i was under the impression you already had the cine9 lenses, arent those the best out there.

i`m using the hd10gt17 and am perfectly happy with them.

getting scheimpflug perfect is not easy but is required to get corner to corner focus.

the hd10gt17 should serve well if scheimpflug is adjusted properly.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18468871
> 
> 
> this is getting confusing i was under the impression you already had the cine9 lenses, arent those the best out there.
> 
> i`m using the hd10gt17 and am perfectly happy with them.
> 
> getting scheimpflug perfect is not easy but is required to get corner to corner focus.
> 
> the hd10gt17 should serve well if scheimpflug is adjusted properly.



I'm waiting on a set of HFQ 900 lenses. I have both HD10L and GT17 lenses. Neither are really the best for the resolution I'm now using.


The GT17's should be fine for your use, especially if used within the right screen size for the lenses.


----------



## nashou66

Chips Ampro 4600HD at [email protected]











NICE!!!!!


----------



## Prehjan

... these latest shots are starting to look spectacular!


My hat is off to you all!


Martin


----------



## mp20748

a nice mixture at a a tough scan rate..









*Pure 1920x1080P 72hz*


----------



## mp20748

*A few more at 1080P 72hz...*


----------



## ImaStar

Wow never noticed that guy's hands in the second pic.! Real meatclaws.


----------



## SteveMo

W5000 - (browser color management support required)


I can't focus out the camera any further...


----------



## Mr Bob

Great to hear from the Inner Sanctum! Welcome Cindy!












b


----------



## mp20748

*A quick morning batch @ 1080P 72hz I tried to capture before the sun came out...*


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/18476700
> 
> 
> This screen shot has earned my stamp of approval
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's by far the best shot! No blurriness or pixel-age. Superior!



Now I really feel special.


----------



## atye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18481029
> 
> *A quick morning batch @ 1080P 72hz I tried to capture before the sun came out...*



I'm new to the CRT FP thing, so forgive me if this question is amaturish, but

why do your images curve at the top and bottom of the screen?

I have a 65" Toshiba CRT RP set and am very interested in going CRT FP as soon as finances allow.


----------



## winduptoy

Most of us don't have a room large enough to do screenshots with other than the wide angle setting on the lens of our digital cameras. Except for the more expensive SLRs, there is significant barrel distortion with the wide angles, hence the curved bottom and top.


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atye* /forum/post/18485546
> 
> 
> I have a 65" Toshiba CRT RP set and am very interested in going CRT FP as soon as finances allow.



Contact Curt at www.curtpalme.com .


On your Toshiba, does the model number begin with TW or 65? If TW it was the series that Runco used back then for their flagship CRT RPTV, by adding a gorgeous frame and cosmetics and some of their own circuitry and external design, but keeping most of the set the same inside. It is truly capable of greatness.


If so, very few people know that series also had the delicious but hidden Designer Menu, which was phased out in later models. As a CRT specialist I have loads of fun in that menu, doing things nobody expected it to be able to do, like using its built in color isolation registers in realigning its color decoding, with decoding registers only found there in those TW models. And other things, like sharpening the pic in ways that do not add edge enhancement. Like the special ee fine tuning mod that Craig Rounds came up with on the later model Mit HD ready CRTs for dialing in the crispness of your picture on those Mit's - similar results with the Tosh, different internal methods - very few people know anything about it.


If you want to have a conversation about that contact me directly, no pms please, and feel free to discuss whatever you decide to do with it, here on this thread -



b


----------



## atye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18486426
> 
> 
> Most of us don't have a room large enough to do screenshots with other than the wide angle setting on the lens of our digital cameras. Except for the more expensive SLRs, there is significant barrel distortion with the wide angles, hence the curved bottom and top.



Ok cool. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## atye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18486834
> 
> 
> Contact Curt at www.curtpalme.com .
> 
> 
> On your Toshiba, does the model number begin with TW or 65? If TW it was the series that Runco used back then for their flagship CRT RPTV, by adding a gorgeous frame and cosmetics and some of their own circuitry and external design, but keeping most of the set the same inside. It is truly capable of greatness.
> 
> 
> If so, very few people know that series also had the delicious but hidden Designer Menu, which was phased out in later models. As a CRT specialist I have loads of fun in that menu, doing things nobody expected it to be able to do, like using its built in color isolation registers in realigning its color decoding, with decoding registers only found there in those TW models. And other things, like sharpening the pic in ways that do not add edge enhancement. Like the special ee fine tuning mod that Craig Rounds came up with on the later model Mit HD ready CRTs for dialing in the crispness of your picture on those Mit's - similar results with the Tosh, different internal methods - very few people know anything about it.
> 
> 
> If you want to have a conversation about that contact me directly, no pms please, and feel free to discuss whatever you decide to do with it, here on this thread -
> 
> 
> 
> b



Hey Bob, thanks.


Unfortunately it's a newer model. 65H84.

I've enjoyed reading a lot of your posts and have come to realize what a nice picture I really do have.

I've used AVS forum advise from the beginning. Movie mode, low contrast settings, etc.

I have some screen burn (ESPN logo) that is _usually_ not noticeable but I'm probably going to be looking to

set up a FP setup in the next year or so, and unload this beast at that time.

(if it lasts that long. probably has 12,000+ hours on it







)


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18486426
> 
> 
> Most of us don't have a room large enough to do screenshots with other than the wide angle setting on the lens of our digital cameras. Except for the more expensive SLRs, there is significant barrel distortion with the wide angles, hence the curved bottom and top.



Very nice! What projector are you using?


----------



## winduptoy

Thanks! Until last summer I was a fairly regular poster on this thread. My work since then has cut into my forum time (and movie watching time) I'm now back on days and should be able to participate a little more. Many of the regulars here have a good sense of humor, lots of experience and tips to pass on and are passionate about PQ. In short this is a good place to hang out, learn some and help some.


Oh yeah, about the projector; Still using a G70 with Moome HDMI card.


----------



## HD in Ohio

JVC RS-20 with Primasonic HD-5000R A-lense:


----------



## mp20748

*Straight 1080P 72hz*


----------



## ImaStar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18494333
> 
> 
> Thanks! Until last summer I was a fairly regular poster on this thread. My work since then has cut into my forum time (and movie watching time) I'm now back on days and should be able to participate a little more. Many of the regulars here have a good sense of humor, lots of experience and tips to pass on and are passionate about PQ. In short this is a good place to hang out, learn some and help some.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, about the projector; Still using a G70 with Moome HDMI card.



So is 1080p acheived on the G70 with the Moome HDMI card alone? What sources are you sending it , which version of the Moome card are you using? Any special tweaks, and are you running other resolutions i.e., 1080i, 720p?

Your shots are awesome and keep me inspired with my G70 thus a reason for questions.







I'm using a 100" screen.


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18494333
> 
> 
> Thanks! Until last summer I was a fairly regular poster on this thread. My work since then has cut into my forum time (and movie watching time) I'm now back on days and should be able to participate a little more. Many of the regulars here have a good sense of humor, lots of experience and tips to pass on and are passionate about PQ. In short this is a good place to hang out, learn some and help some.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, about the projector; Still using a G70 with Moome HDMI card.



One thing that has always impressed me in G70 shots is the colour! Do Sonys have an autodefocus feature for the blue CRT?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atye* /forum/post/18489221
> 
> 
> Hey Bob, thanks.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately it's a newer model. 65H84.
> 
> I've enjoyed reading a lot of your posts and have come to realize what a nice picture I really do have.
> 
> I've used AVS forum advise from the beginning. Movie mode, low contrast settings, etc.
> 
> I have some screen burn (ESPN logo) that is _usually_ not noticeable but I'm probably going to be looking to
> 
> set up a FP setup in the next year or so, and unload this beast at that time.
> 
> (if it lasts that long. probably has 12,000+ hours on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Have you cleaned your optics recently?


b


----------



## winduptoy

Current setup: Panasonic BD30 - G70 w/Moome V1


Would like to do 1080p but do not have scaler that will do HD. Without a scaler there are porch issues. If I had a Lumagen, I would probably try 1080p/48 and run scope films @ 817x1920.


Wish list; Moome V2 card, BDP 83, Lumagen scaler (HDQ would do)


Dream list: 9" color filtered machine and a house big enough to have a dedicated room to put it in.


Meanwhile, I'm quite happy to run 1080i on 87" screen. The G70 has been very reliable and stable and is very easy to set up. With contrast at 60, I'm getting 12 ft. lamberts on a white window (100 IRE.)


----------



## napos

Once again, look at those colors!!! Very impressive!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18499185
> 
> 
> Current setup: Panasonic BD30 - G70 w/Moome V1
> 
> 
> Would like to do 1080p but do not have scaler that will do HD. Without a scaler there are porch issues. If I had a Lumagen, I would probably try 1080p/48 and run scope films @ 817x1920.
> 
> 
> Wish list; Moome V2 card, BDP 83, Lumagen scaler (HDQ would do)
> 
> 
> Dream list: 9" color filtered machine and a house big enough to have a dedicated room to put it in.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm quite happy to run 1080i on 87" screen. The G70 has been very reliable and stable and is very easy to set up. With contrast at 60, I'm getting 12 ft. lamberts on a white window (100 IRE.)



That G70 is looking real good.










Your right too. The G70 is wicked easy to setup. Actually, stock to stock, the G70 has more accurate green than the G90. The G70's firmware is basically a crippled version of the G90 firmware as well.


You guys are making me want to fire up the stack start snappin away. Maybe I can get some decent shots of my AE4000 as well.


Cliff


----------



## ilsiu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18499408
> 
> 
> You guys are making me want to fire up the stack start snappin away. Maybe I can get some decent shots of my AE4000 as well.
> 
> 
> Cliff



I think you should take shots of both and not label which is which


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *simpletakes* /forum/post/18476700
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This screen shot has earned my stamp of approval
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's by far the best shot! No blurriness or pixel-age. Superior!




with my G90 1920x817p72


----------



## napos

This kind of sharpness should be illegal!!!

That is amazing!


----------



## atye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18499149
> 
> 
> Have you cleaned your optics recently?
> 
> 
> b



Not as regularly as I should have until the last 2 years. The first time I cleaned them I had a serious

"oh my" moment. Since then I've cleaned them about every 6-9 months.


To anyone using the Moome card for HDMI; is this interface pretty friendly when connected through an AVR?


----------



## dvh99

sherlock holmes.

1920*1080 72hz crappy lcp tubes


----------



## dvh99

sherlock


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18504182
> 
> 
> sherlock holmes.
> 
> 1920*1080 72hz *crappy lcp tubes*



Hey, I'm using LCP's...










They can't be that bad, considering not many trying to meet me at 1920x1080P 72hz..


----------



## overclkr

Hi. I'm watching this tonight.


----------



## overclkr

























































Off to the theater.


Cliffy


----------



## g-man5.1

Great job as usual Cliff on the screenshots. Just got finish watching Avatar as well and I can say without a doubt that this is the best looking Bluray disc that I have ever seen. Amazing.


----------



## techman707

You're STILL the king Cliffy.










The only problem is that they will never give you an Energy Star sticker for your setup.







But what the hell, PQ is more important anyway.


----------



## Gary Murrell

i'll donate the extra coal for cliffords setup







LMAO


to hell with energy stars










-Gary


----------



## nashou66

I agree on Avatar. just watched it on the not so perfect blend and i was blown away!!


Awesome imagery !! Cliff your shots rock!!


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Thanks Guys.










I'll be getting back to it this weekend. Time to get back to the SCREENSHOT WAR!


----------



## Mr Bob

ebay had the best deal I've seen on Avatar a day or 2 ago, with Fry's close behind. Mine's on order as we speak -


b


----------



## bobbijean

Hi Cliff just chiming in to tell you what the others have already said those pictures look really good. I bet it looks even better in real life.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bobbijean* /forum/post/18528860
> 
> 
> .... I bet it looks even better in real life.



Cliffy ALSO looks better in real life.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Hey guys, it's been more than 6 months I guess that I haven't posted any screenshot. Here are some from Avatar via my Sony 1272. She's not sharp anymore. I see a lot of burn too but I still can live with it.










I was planning to upgrade to a better CRT projector but the money went to a canon dslr camera and lenses.










Here ya go......


----------



## winduptoy

That's a 1272?


Really nice looking shots! Good setup, geometry, color etc. I hope you will become a more regular poster...those rock!


As for Cliff; Really good to see you back again! You are the reference standard for awesome!


----------



## Prehjan

nope...overclocker is a G90!


I forget what virtuosity had, but chances are it is no a 1272, but maybe!


Maybe he will will chime in


Martin


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18532012
> 
> 
> That's a 1272?
> 
> 
> Really nice looking shots! Good setup, geometry, color etc. I hope you will become a more regular poster...those rock!



Thanks!







I used to post a lot 2 years ago. I'll try again.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18532550
> 
> 
> nope...overclocker is a G90!
> 
> 
> I forget what virtuosity had, but chances are it is no a 1272, but maybe!
> 
> 
> Maybe he will will chime in
> 
> 
> Martin



You were one of the guys who assisted me in calibrating/fixing my crt projector!










Check it out, I have some shots of my 1272. Hopefully, you'll recall the shots!









http://restricted.dyndns.org/myht/ 


I'll take another shot tonight of Avatar. I'll stand in front!







Hehehe!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Martin,


Here is a new shot just taken few minutes ago. The projected picture's width is about 124 inches wide.


Shutter was set to 5 seconds because I set the Aperture to f/11 so everything can be focused. It's hard to be still, hahaha!


----------



## dvh99

zwartboek






































seems you forgot a few mike.


----------



## Mr Bob

Copy 'em quick, before the mods get here...!











b


----------



## nashou66

lets keep posting till a new page come up, they might not notice them.


----------



## bassfreak




----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/18532667
> 
> 
> You were one of the guys who assisted me in calibrating/fixing my crt projector!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check it out, I have some shots of my 1272. Hopefully, you'll recall the shots!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://restricted.dyndns.org/myht/
> 
> 
> I'll take another shot tonight of Avatar. I'll stand in front!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe!



oh yeah ...now i remember! it was the handle that confuse me!


you are the guy near me right?


Great job by the way!!!



aslo superb pics of the blonde in the Zwartboek! (She is soooo hot!)


Martin


----------



## plain fan

You know I haven't seen that movie but I've always wanted, just never got around to it. I've heard it is excellent...story, visuals, etc..


----------



## dvh99

that camera makes my pj look like a 7 inch.

i dont know how others do it but i havent shot a decent pic yet.


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350 (RS10)







*


----------



## bobbijean




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18535434
> 
> 
> lets keep posting till a new page come up, they might not notice them.



Hey, It may be beauty but if it's not etiquette it'll be gone. Still good shots.


----------



## nashou66

Ok Worked on the Blend a bit more all week.


here is one shot I really liked. it shows lots of small details.











And this one having the image cropped in iPhoto











Athanasios


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plain fan* /forum/post/18536165
> 
> 
> You know I haven't seen that movie but I've always wanted, just never got around to it. I've heard it is excellent...story, visuals, etc..




the Blackbook is an awesome movie with an excellent cast and story, none of the Hollywood "cookie cutter" BS here, the director is also an excellent one!


You should get it right away, you ill not be disappointed!


Nashou, cropped it looks ten times worse than the original untouched one!!!


Martin


----------



## Gary Murrell

agreed on Blackbook and with the Oppo 83, you can shift the subs up into the pix for 2.40:1 setups










previously unwatchable without this










-Gary


----------



## Prehjan

Ha???


Does this dude realize that we are all in search of a "visual nirvana"?


Martin


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Nice shot Athanasios!!!


----------



## SteveMo

W5000 - ProPhoto RGB - browser color management support required - The Lovely Bones


----------



## Mr Bob

On my monitor these are coming out super dark, very hard to see.


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18536297
> 
> 
> that camera makes my pj look like a 7 inch.
> 
> i dont know how others do it but i havent shot a decent pic yet.



Both Cliff and I use the Kodak Z series camera. Very affordable, with that great Schneider lens, and complete manual capabilities.


It was disco'd a couple of years ago, and screamin' deals were available on it. I highly recommend stepping up to one. For under $200 it can't be beat, and if you can find a Kodak with the Schneider lens and manual ops for less go for it, as lots of zoom is not a requirement for screenshots. I saw one Kodak with 5x optical zoom and the Schneider lens for under $100. Woulda worked fine for my use on screenshots, but I wanted the 12x zoom on mine, for other things.


Use a tripod and the 2 second timer, play with it in manual ops till you get it right, and you're off.


Mine is the Z712 IS, I believe Cliff's is the Z610 IS.


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18539953
> 
> 
> Ha???
> 
> 
> Does this dude realize that we are all in search of a "visual nirvana"?
> 
> 
> Martin



I just got the same thing in my email box! Obviously spam, am surprised it was sent up here.


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18539664
> 
> 
> Nashou, cropped it looks ten times worse than the original untouched one!!!
> 
> 
> Martin



I agree, I like to see the borders of the screen up against the actual room. I just had the cover page of my website changed because of that, to show the rest of my set's front along with the pic on the screen. I think that's a lot more revealing.


b


----------



## SteveMo

W5000 - ProPhoto RGB - browser color management support required - The Lovely Bones


Point and shoot camera - 1 sec F3.1










3-chip sensor DSLR camera - 1 sec F2.8


----------



## Mr Bob

Still excessively dim, Steve, on that last one. The point and shoot turned out OK here, but crushed for shadow detail. The second one is just dim all over.


Am I the only one seeing these pix as dim?


b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18540467
> 
> 
> Still excessively dim, Steve, on that last one. The point and shoot turned out OK here, but crushed for shadow detail. The second one is just dim all over.
> 
> 
> Am I the only one seeing these pix as dim?
> 
> 
> b




No his pics have been very dim lately. A while back they looked ok.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo

5 seconds









3.2 seconds









2 seconds


----------



## Mr Bob

Low light shots like the ideal lighting conditions for home theater often require longer shutter openings in cameras shooting freezeframes. I once could not get a good pic of a delicious shot because the cam I was using was automated and its shutter would only stay open for 3 seconds. That's one reason - of several - to go fully manual for screenshots.


If 5 seconds doesn't do it set it for longer, or open your aperture/F stop some more, or go to a higher ISO/ASA rating setting.



b


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18540866
> 
> 
> Low light shots like the ideal lighting conditions for home theater often require longer shutter openings in cameras shooting freezeframes. I once could not get a good pic of a delicious shot because the cam I was using was automated and its shutter would only stay open for 3 seconds. That's one reason - of several - to go fully manual for screenshots.
> 
> 
> If 5 seconds doesn't do it set it for longer, or open your aperture/F stop some more, or go to a higher ISO/ASA rating setting.
> 
> 
> 
> b



The 5 second looks about right for the shadow details, and the 1 second looks closest for color, at least on my LED-backlit monitor. Contrast appears very washed out on my laptop. My linear gamma may have something to do with the brightness appearing low. Contrast is set low at 43 and iris is at 1. I'm also projecting onto a wall. I would expect it to look somehwat dim, but not difficult to see, so not sure what's going on there.


5 second shot of the Screenshot War thread.


----------



## Mr Bob

That shot looks pretty good, markedly better than the ones before it. But the ones before it are not even reasonably viewable, they are so dim.


Are you seeing what I am seeing, Steve? Are they dim on your computer monitor?


What counts is not how it looks on your cam's little viewfinder LCD, but how it looks on a well set up computer monitor. I have been lied to many times by my cam's LCD. I typically take 3 shots going in, of the first pic I want to capture, at each of 3 varying light levels. All 3 look pretty much the same on my cam's viewfinder LCD.


When I download them to my computer is when I know whether I've captured it correctly or not. Then I choose which one works.


b


----------



## SteveMo

Exhibit B - Samsung XL2370


Manufacturer's specifications:

Resolution: 1,920x1,080

Pixel-response rate: 2ms

Contrast ratio: 1,000:1

Connectivity: HDMI, DVI-D

HDCP compliant? Yes

Backlight: LED

Panel Type: TN

Brightness: 344 candelas per square meter (cd/m2)

Calibration with CM http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=xl2370 


Photo - sorry, it turned out blurry and over-exposed even at one second for my 5 second screenshot. I measured .03 for the black level facing the projector before. The projector I calibrated on my High Power screen for 2.2 gamma, then switched to 2.4 for my wall at a new location, then checked gamut was alright. My greyscale looked straight, and then comes to a point at 30%. My new lamp will be here soon.


----------



## dvh99

dump that ****** digital and buy 2 bg808s and blend or 2 8500s like nashou.

no more motion blur and as a bonus fluent motion.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18541866
> 
> 
> dump that ****** digital and buy 2 bg808s and blend or 2 8500s like nashou.
> 
> no more motion blur and as a bonus fluent motion.




I would have a second 6PG+ right now if it had not been listed for $200 more than my digital at the time. My family discussed getting a new CRT later in the year, but not anytime soon.


----------



## dvh99

the barco`s are selling for 1200 to 1500 each so a blend for 3000 is possible.

i dont know what the prices are for digitals but a `decent` digital costs at least that.

i let a jvc hd750 go by and got a 9500 ultra and i havent regretted it.

btw the 6pg+ is for sale at curt for 1000 usd with light wear on the tubes.


----------



## dvh99

different camera setting.

zwartboek 1920*1080 72hz 81khz scanrate





























bob, i looked at the kodaks and they seem really nice.

it didnt say on the internet (at least where i looked) if the 980 has the schneider lens.


that 1 goes for 300 euro.


my pics are now taken with a canon powershot a580.

the eos series cameras seem nice too, anyway a big step forward compared to the powershot.


dennis


----------



## Mr Bob

Expand the picture of the cam itself, so you can see what's written around the lens. Look for Schneider Kreuznach...


b


----------



## SteveMo

W5000 - ProPhoto RGB - browser color management support required

6 seconds


----------



## Prehjan

I agree with Steve and Bob, they do require longer shutter times and that 5 second one is about right but still dim and some of the details look crushed!


If they were cheaper solutions for a blend then I would think that the two Marquee 8500's that I already got are well suited for this ...just as Nashou has done already! (Also..I just don't see the benefits of using a couple of nine inchers for a blend! with the tube face and all! I would think that it should not matter a bit if they are 8500s or 9500 since you are after covering the whole tube face specially if you are going to be using a cinamascope AR!)


I do have a couple of 8500 that I have been dreaming of blending but just can't bring myself to buy a DiventiX just yet! (...at least not until the prices come down a little, if they are ever going to! ...so for the time being a M9000LC is just what the doc ordered for me!)


Keep the shots coming folks!


Martin


----------



## nashou66

Martin the tv_ones are less.


Let me know when your ready.


Nashou


----------



## Prehjan

Nashou


I seem to have confused the two!


I meant the one that you are using...which I believe is the TV-One


I would really want/like to find someone local that has such a setup so that I can check it out with my own eyes...


Hopefully someone has one they can show off to me!!!


Martin


----------



## Mr Bob

Steve -


The 6 second ones look great! Totally better than the 5 second ones.


Now try 7, 8, and 9 second shots of the same thing, just to be sure.


b


----------



## nashou66

I use the Fuji f10 and use the Night mode with the long exposer setting set to on in one of the other menus. I think the longest mine has kept the shutter open is about 2 seconds.


this pics info :


Shutter 5/8

Aperture f/3.0


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18546424
> 
> 
> Steve -
> 
> 
> The 6 second ones look great! Totally better than the 5 second ones.
> 
> 
> Now try 7, 8, and 9 second shots of the same thing, just to be sure.
> 
> 
> b



Thanks Mr Bob. After 6 seconds is 8 seconds on my camera, but I get exposure warnings. The most I do right now is 6 seconds and adjust exposure compensation.


W5000 - ProPhoto RGB - browser color management support required


----------



## Mr Bob

Nothing wrong with those!











b


----------



## winduptoy

Bob, your advice is right on! Another thing you might try is see if your camera will display a histogram. Might be in your menu, but if you're lucky there will be a button marked display on the back of your camera. Put camera in pic view mode and cycle thru the display options and see if it pops up.


----------



## dvh99

dark shot from sin city

1920*1080 72hz

powershot a580 iso set to 100


----------



## dvh99

on my monitor i dont see any detail right from the nose, anyone else not seeing this or is it my 13 yr old 201p crt philips monitor.


----------



## nashou66











































































































Nashou!!!!!!!


----------



## Gary Murrell

Athan is the winner














haha


-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18556499
> 
> 
> Athan is the winner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha
> 
> 
> -Gary



Thanks Gary, And that was done all by Eye, and you know how hard it is to match two PJ's. My i1 Pro is all flakey.


When reading the Gamut it would take about 10 readings to read Red 75% stimulus.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18557231
> 
> 
> Thanks Gary, And that was done all by Eye, and you know how hard it is to match two PJ's. *My i1 Pro is all flakey*.
> 
> 
> When reading the Gamut it would take about 10 readings to read Red 75% stimulus.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Your window is too large then maybe. You can make the window smaller, or use more than one meter. I aim my meter at an angle. My measurements are all over unless my projector is on more than 4 1/2 hours, which is when the image really starts to pop. There is also a short time right after it is turned on where I can do some gamut, but otherwise I reserve gamut for later on. I have less than 20 minutes to get the calibration done about this time before it's too bright to measure, depending on hours.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18557426
> 
> 
> Your window is too large then maybe. You can make the window smaller, or use more than one meter. I aim my meter at an angle. My measurements are all over unless my projector is on more than 4 1/2 hours, which is when the image really starts to pop. There is also a short time right after it is turned on where I can do some gamut, but otherwise I reserve gamut for later on. I have less than 20 minutes to get the calibration done about this time before it's too bright to measure, depending on hours.



I don't think that is it. The Eye One D2 i am borrowing measures fine , I just don't trust it since its 3 years old and basically not with in spec.


its just not consistent and the i1 pro should read fairly close each time .

I can put up a 80 IRE 10% window from AVCHD disc and it will read

faily close but it seams red is always to low and i need to raise the drive or G2's or lower Blue. this makes it all brownish.Greenish. and some times it will read red all of a sudden at say 94% and then jump to 160% and then next time not read any red at all. all within 3 simultaneous readings. Something is amiss. It is like it intermittently reads correct and I have no way of know which one is the correct reading making exact calibration impossible.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18557600
> 
> 
> I don't think that is it. The Eye One D2 i am borrowing measures fine , I just don't trust it since its 3 years old and basically not with in spec.
> 
> 
> its just not consistent and the i1 pro should read fairly close each time .
> 
> I can put up a 80 IRE 10% window from AVCHD disc and it will read
> 
> faily close but it seams red is always to low and i need to raise the drive or G2's or lower Blue. this makes it all brownish.Greenish. and some times it will read red all of a sudden at say 94% and then jump to 160% and then next time not read any red at all. all within 3 simultaneous readings. Something is amiss. It is like it intermittently reads correct and I have no way of know which one is the correct reading making exact calibration impossible.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I just do what I have always done even when using my meter I'm relying on what I see, and sometimes what my camera does. I run blue high watching cyan, set white (contrast), run overly warm until the image is yellow, then back off yellow appearance at 6500K or Y (luminance) until magenta is not purple, and green is not overly green. This usually means a few clicks on the brightness control. The image goes from cyan - green - blue - purple - then more balanced. Alot of it is patience wating for color to change and not touchinng the controls. I can do this in about 3 or 4 days watching LEON, which I have watched hundreds of times.


----------



## nashou66

As you can see here I did one pj with the calibration it told me. and the other i did by eye but pushing blue for sure. My camera adds some weird red spots on the blue side. If i follow my probe it is all wrong. With CRT's it is much differnt than doing a digital. you ahve two controls for the RGB of each color. its the G2 for the low end and the Drve for the high end. On the marquee red and blue drive have much more affect on the lower end than the green drive which i was told only is about a 5% change from 0-100 than the red and blue which is 100% change. So i did one or two click back and forth from 30IRE to 80 IRE on the red and blue controls. this way i never made a big jump on either the low or high end. this takes many hours as you know the i1 pro takes long readings, or at least mine does. I have a 40 second wait sometimes. and then sometimes Calman takes another 30 seconds to record the reading. so i do not think its me. somthing is wacky or i am just an idiot.



















Aslo here is the gamut readings with the red nbot reading, it puts a default .3333 value for x and y on the red reading.

Also look at my Y readings they are super low, the D2 probe reads higher but its off as well.











Athanasios


Athanasios


----------



## dvh99

1 feet is that 30cm?


----------



## nidi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18557958
> 
> 
> 1 feet is that 30cm?



30,48 cm (metric foot)



Michael



oops, it depends where you are in the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_(length)


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18557820
> 
> 
> As you can see here I did one pj with the calibration it told me. and the other i did by eye but pushing blue for sure. My camera adds some weird red spots on the blue side. If i follow my probe it is all wrong. With CRT's it is much differnt than doing a digital. you ahve two controls for the RGB of each color. its the G2 for the low end and the Drve for the high end. On the marquee red and blue drive have much more affect on the lower end than the green drive which i was told only is about a 5% change from 0-100 than the red and blue which is 100% change. So i did one or two click back and forth from 30IRE to 80 IRE on the red and blue controls. this way i never made a big jump on either the low or high end. this takes many hours as you know the i1 pro takes long readings, or at least mine does. I have a 40 second wait sometimes. and then sometimes Calman takes another 30 seconds to record the reading. so i do not think its me. somthing is wacky or i am just an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aslo here is the gamut readings with the red nbot reading, it puts a default .3333 value for x and y on the red reading.
> 
> Also look at my Y readings they are super low, the D2 probe reads higher but its off as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Here are mine.







I haven't put in the new lamp yet. My ColorMunki takes about 4 seconds on my very old computer. Have your tried to disable low light handling?


----------



## Gary Murrell

I am a big fan of HCFR and their DIY custom built sensor, it reads very quickly and stable down to 10IRE(with correct gamma boost/adjustment in the mix)


me and Bob used this setup on his rig and I have used it for a long time on my end, I love that sensor










-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18558981
> 
> 
> I am a big fan of HCFR and their DIY custom built sensor, it reads very quickly and stable down to 10IRE(with correct gamma boost/adjustment in the mix)
> 
> 
> me and Bob used this setup on his rig and I have used it for a long time on my end, I love that sensor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Gary



Can I borrow it for a week?










Nashou


----------



## nashou66

Steve, those are really low Y values. The D2 i was using got up to 10.xx on the same set up i posted above. I used the i1 Pro. I know spectro's do not read "as" high Y values as Colorimeters but that seams really Low.


You definitely need a new lamp.


Ahhh Thats why i Love CRT's 10,000 hours and a little tweak of the G2 and Drive along with a contrast hike and your good to go for another 1k hours.


Athanasios


----------



## zapper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18559201
> 
> 
> Can I borrow it for a week?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou




Like that one, lol.


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> I am a big fan of HCFR and their DIY custom built sensor



Gary - I really miss that DIY sensor. It was fast, stable, and consistant all the way to 10IRE. When I did the CMS later, I really missed that sensor. I have done some searching and can't find anyone who either sells the parts or a built unit. I REALLY want one as I am going to set up a couple of other resolutions and want to go back through it afterwards.



Bob


----------



## Boilermaker

Athanasios - One thing is for sure - Judging by your screenshots, your "eye" is better calibrated than mine. You also probably have more patience.


Bob


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boilermaker* /forum/post/18560648
> 
> 
> Athanasios - One thing is for sure - Judging by your screenshots, your "eye" is better calibrated than mine. You also probably have more patience.
> 
> 
> Bob



I found out that on these longbows that while in a lower IRE that it is sometimes better to adjust Drive instead of G2 for red or Blue as these have much more affect on them than any other Marquee i used. Not sure why.

Maybe its the special software they may have, i dont know but for example a 5 click lower adjustment of Blue will bring out more red in the 30 IRE, and not to where you need a meter to read it, its visual.


I think I am going to spring for the DTP 93 colorimeter to compliment my i1 Pro . Once i get the i1 pro checked out and either its ok or they re calibrate it I will profile the DTP 94 to it and use that for speed. then once its all done i'll go back and touch up with the i1 pro.


And i need the HCFR probe form gary before you get it !!










Athanasios


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> And i need the HCFR probe form gary before you get it !!



That's OK with me - I want my own so I can play anytime I want to!!!


Surely there is someone who makes/sells these.



Bob


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18559238
> 
> 
> Steve, those are really low Y values. The D2 i was using got up to 10.xx on the same set up i posted above. I used the i1 Pro. *I know spectro's do not read "as" high Y values as Colorimeters but that seams really Low.*
> 
> 
> You definitely need a new lamp.
> 
> 
> Ahhh Thats why i Love CRT's 10,000 hours and a little tweak of the G2 and Drive along with a contrast hike and your good to go for another 1k hours.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Y value of Blue looks decent. Most DLP are single chip, which means the Y value will be lower as brightness drops.You want to criticize DLP you can talk about the colorwheel. Hehe.


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boilermaker* /forum/post/18560620
> 
> 
> Gary - I really miss that DIY sensor. It was fast, stable, and consistant all the way to 10IRE. When I did the CMS later, I really missed that sensor. I have done some searching and can't find anyone who either sells the parts or a built unit. I REALLY want one as I am going to set up a couple of other resolutions and want to go back through it afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob



Bob, I will be back down soon to go over your rig again haha










let me dig around and find that info on the DIY sensor


-Gary


----------



## Gary Murrell

found it!!!...Athan, make up a few









http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorimetre/sonde.php 


-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18561389
> 
> 
> found it!!!...Athan, make up a few
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorimetre/sonde.php
> 
> 
> -Gary



I already have the gerber files. Just not sure if i want to have them made up.

I should contact Alberta circuits the place i had some other stuff made.


I just want to get this damn thing calibrated properly.


Athanasios


Athansios


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> Bob, I will be back down soon to go over your rig again haha



When can you get here? I had a problem with the CMS portion on just the red, so I went ahead and downloaded the latest firmware on the left one in hopes that it would fix it. Don't know why, but it reset just the CMS settings back to default, so I need to redo it. I never did write down the values as I should have.




> Quote:
> I already have the gerber files. Just not sure if i want to have them made up.
> 
> I should contact Alberta circuits the place i had some other stuff made.



Athanasios - If you are serious about this, let me join you and I'l help defer some of the cost.


Bob


----------



## nashou66

Bob, I just ordered 6 boards. Now i'll look up the parts I need and start building.

Looks like I'll need an eprom programer as well. Any one here know of a cheap programer for a 28 pin chip?


The 8x8 color photo diode array they used is not made but a new version is out that they say is more sensitive in low light!! this array is 16 red reading ,16 green,16 blue and 16 clear.


Hope it works once i get it all done.










Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Once done, Spectracal can calibrate these pods - if they are programmable - for $175.


They are doing this right now to my Eye One Pro, which I'll be using with my Colorfacts CF 6000. Joel just had a chance to put it thru its paces at the recent ISF Level II that just happened in Brisbane CA, at Monster Cable. He says it didn't do too bad for never having been used in the 5 years I've had it (was still in its factory sealed plastic wrapper) but that it was a little off and should be calibrated. So I left it with Jeff at Spectracal (president), who was all over our training, making sure everything kept purring smoothly.


They calibrate it by setting it up next to a $35K professional photoradiometer, and get its response to be exactly identical to it. After that you can trust that its response will be the same as that very expensive one.


b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18564515
> 
> 
> Once done, Spectracal can calibrate these pods - if they are programmable - for $175.
> 
> 
> They are doing this right now to my Eye One Pro, which I'll be using with my Colorfacts CF 6000. Joel just had a chance to put it thru its paces at the recent ISF Level II that just happened in Brisbane CA, at Monster Cable. He says it didn't do too bad for never having been used in the 5 years I've had it (was still in its factory sealed plastic wrapper) but that it was a little off and should be calibrated. So I left it with Jeff at Spectracal (president), who was all over our training, making sure everything kept purring smoothly.
> 
> 
> They calibrate it by setting it up next to a $35K professional photoradiometer, and get its response to be exactly identical to it. After that you can trust that its response will be the same as that very expensive one.
> 
> 
> b



hi Bob, I sent my i1 pro in last month for the LED enhancement so they could also check it out to make sure its ok. Well I got it back like in less than a week and no comments on if it was checked out. I since contacted Derek , via the spectral forum and have not had a response yet. I gave them my serial number to check it out and no word back yet. From my above Calman chart you can see it did not read red. And when I use it it makes everything look brownish green. it has to be the probe. nothing else can explain it. And when i try to do the latency contact test where you put it on its white tile and it uses the internal tungsten lamp i get an error stating over exposure and possible damage if continued over exposure happens.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18564625
> 
> 
> hi Bob, I sent my i1 pro in last month for the LED enhancement so they could also check it out to make sure its ok. Well I got it back like in less than a week and no comments on if it was checked out. I since contacted Derek , via the spectral forum and have not had a response yet. I gave them my serial number to check it out and no word back yet. From my above Calman chart you can see it did not read red. And when I use it it makes everything look brownish green. it has to be the probe. nothing else can explain it. And when i try to do the latency contact test where you put it on its white tile and it uses the internal tungsten lamp i get an error stating over exposure and possible damage if continued over exposure happens.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



This is what I have for general contact. If that doesn't work, contact me off board - no pm's please - and I'll put you in touch with Jeff if I can -


SpectraCal

Sioux Falls Sales Office:

2329 N. Career Ave. Suite 205

Sioux Falls, SD

+1-605-274-6055

877-886-5112


b


----------



## nashou66

I was doing some research on the light sensor for the HCFR meter and read something that might have an effect on my readings, However i am not sure what type of sensors the i1 pro uses. I know its an array of diodes, Well the TSC3200D also has an array of photo diodes.










One of the members who did an extensive test of about 4 probes and the TOAS COLOR LIGHT-TO-FREQUENCY CONVERTER chip in the picture above found it made a difference which way it is positioned. The version of the HCFR circuit he made had two chips, one was at a 90 degree orientation to the other. in the HCFR program i think you can run the probe with one or both sensors on and choose which sensor to use.At least this is what I got form reading the thread.The one sensor that was at the 90 to the other had a different reading result and it said it affected Green.


With my i1 pro I put a nut on the side of it so I could mount it to the tripod so it lays sideways on the tripod instead of vertical. I wonder if this makes a difference or not?


Here is his results.











and the sensors positions











Well here is the thread on this probe comparison for anyone who is interested.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844188 


Athanasios


----------



## Prehjan

Dam


I gotta get a hold of RayJr to bring his colorimetry thingie over so that I can finally get these type of a fine turning done on my M9000LC...From what Nashou has shown us here it is well wort the effort!


Good job Nashou! (...And keep the Screen Shots coming!)


Martin


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Prehjan* /forum/post/18575191
> 
> 
> Dam
> 
> 
> I gotta get a hold of RayJr to bring his colorimetry thingie over so that I can finally get these type of a fine turning done on my M9000LC...From what Nashou has shown us here it is well wort the effort!
> 
> 
> Good job Nashou! (...And keep the Screen Shots coming!)
> 
> 
> Martin



Yep. Dat man got him a seriously awesome setup!


----------



## Prehjan

Indeed...He does (...and I will be bugging him for his gear these next few days!)


Martin


----------



## WTS

Hi Athanasios,


I've been using one of the HCFR probes for about 2 years now and I think they work great and I have no complaints about the colours after setting the white balance using it. Although I didn't know about being able to select either sensor, I don't even know how you do the selection but I assume it's selectable in the HCFR program.


Are the new sensors functionally the same as the origianl sensors? For my cal file I use one that someone made for the G70 and it seems to work just fine. If you end up building your own cal file while using the 35K probe I'd be interested in trying it.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/18581303
> 
> 
> Hi Athanasios,
> 
> 
> I've been using one of the HCFR probes for about 2 years now and I think they work great and I have no complaints about the colours after setting the white balance using it. Although I didn't know about being able to select either sensor, I don't even know how you do the selection but I assume it's selectable in the HCFR program.
> 
> 
> Are the new sensors functionally the same as the origianl sensors? For my cal file I use one that someone made for the G70 and it seems to work just fine. If you end up building your own cal file while using the 35K probe I'd be interested in trying it.



I am not sure how to select the sensors unless he desoldered them for each test? I am trying to find the sensors used for this probe but right now they are not available. the Taos TCS230 is not made and the newest one the TCS3200D-TR is not going to be available from Mouser till December!! and Future electronics in Canada only has them in lots of 1000. I am having Alberta Printed Circuit boards make up the latest version on the HCFR board from the HCFR Site. Its version 2.5.


Walt, can you explain the Cal file thing? I see it in HCFR but don't understand how its used or why? isn't each PJ different so one calibration file would be different for the same Pj model? I don't get it? lol


And what is this 35k probe? Id love to have one for a couple days and get this damn blend calibrated perfectly.


I talked Last night with L.A. Haberline at Spectracal about my i1 Pro issues. I dont understand what the hell is wrong. I have calibrated my older Marquee's before with HCFR and a spyder and D2 and got great results. Now with this i1 pro i did one cal quickly when i first got it last june and it worked great. It sat then for about 5 months before i began to work on the blend again and that whne i started to get the weird readings where after a calibration everything looked great on the program. nice flat greyscale but visually it was all yellow ,brownish green. So he agreed to take a personal look at it and use it extensively over the next week or two. I think it begins to act up after about a 30 minute period which is not enough time to do any real calibration.


Once I get the HCFR probes made and tested I am going to Ask Spectracal to add the probe to its list of probes. I will send them one to evaluate if they are willing.


I have 6 boards being made up. if the probe works good i'll build the rest for others if they want one.

*EDIT*


I forgot to mention and found this odd during my calibration attempts. I have always had the typical Blue hump with a perfectly focused Blue tube as I am running it now. but using this i1 pro and these longbows I am getting a Blue dip if i do a quick greyscale run after a quick visual calibration and then use the pro to measure it. i have never seen this before on a crt so this is what makes me believe its the probe.


Athanasios


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/18581303
> 
> 
> I've been using one of the HCFR probes for about 2 years now and I think they work great and I have no complaints about the colours after setting the white balance using it.



Have you encountered any drifting? I noticed a little red tint on my recent calibration with my i1 Lt. Its time for me to purchase a new cheap one again as I can not afford and eye1 Pro. Which is the meter I really want.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18581477
> 
> 
> Once I get the HCFR probes made and tested I am going to Ask Spectracal to add the probe to its list of probes. I will send them one to evaluate if they are willing.
> 
> 
> I have 6 boards being made up. if the probe works good i'll build the rest for others if they want one.



What would the price be if you were to sell the probes? I was looking into building the HCFR probe but my soldering skills really suck.










It would be nice if spectral cal could add this probe to their list, maybe future re-calibration as well if possible.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassfreak* /forum/post/18581718
> 
> 
> Have you encountered any drifting? I noticed a little red tint on my recent calibration with my i1 Lt. Its time for me to purchase a new cheap one again as I can not afford and eye1 Pro. Which is the meter I really want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would the price be if you were to sell the probes? I was looking into building the HCFR probe but my soldering skills really suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice if spectral cal could add this probe to their list, maybe future re-calibration as well if possible.



I have no idea what The total cost would be. Also I need to find the parts and have to buy a Chip programer for the PIC 18F2550 Chip. the Sensors are what will hold back this project unless TAOS can get me some samples at first for the prototype, then After I build one and make sure it works i'll get back to you.


Athanasios


----------



## WTS

Hi Athanasios,


As far as I understand the probe requires the file so it has a reference set of numbers to base it's reading on. This file is built using an existing probe like the eye1pro or any other probe for that matter. I don't recall which probe was used for the G70 ref file I'm using, but I beleive it was an upperend probe. As for the 35K probe, I was referring to what Bob had said about Spectralcals ref probe. Maybe when you get the HCFR probe built they could build a file using their ref probe.


I would give the manufacturer a call to get some samples of their new sensors. So what are the differences between the original and version 2.5 boards. Why don't you send Dave Larsen an email and see if he can burn you some proms.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/18585020
> 
> 
> Hi Athanasios,
> 
> 
> As far as I understand the probe requires the file so it has a reference set of numbers to base it's reading on. This file is built using an existing probe like the eye1pro or any other probe for that matter. I don't recall which probe was used for the G70 ref file I'm using, but I beleive it was an upperend probe. As for the 35K probe, I was referring to what Bob had said about Spectralcals ref probe. Maybe when you get the HCFR probe built they could build a file using their ref probe.
> 
> 
> I would give the manufacturer a call to get some samples of their new sensors. So what are the differences between the original and version 2.5 boards. Why don't you send Dave Larsen an email and see if he can burn you some proms.



Ok gotcha.


I just think they redesigned the board layout a bit. Not sure as I did not look at the Schematics to tell you the truth. I think i'll still get the programer for that type of chip as I might make more probes if these turn out nice or redesign the board layout for SMD only parts and downsize it. I was thinking of trying to make it small enough to fit in an existing D2 probe for example and maybe do an exchange program where i could remove the guts of the D2 and replace them with the HCFR PCB. But that is just me thinking out loud now.










I am having trouble finding the Sensor chip. The Company has not gotten back to me yet and Future Electronics will not cut the reels they have.

Mousers date of delivery is December and Digikey does not carry them and Newark and Farnell also have a long lead time. There is one Place in Poland that has 7 chips but when I was in the checkout they did not give me a shipping method , it says no delivery to my Address. So now I am waiting for a response from a few Chinese chip carriers. I had luck before with some other hard to find parts so lets see what they will say.


The Boards are being shipped so I want to order all the parts soon.


Athanasios


----------



## WTS

Interesting that they have such a long lead time, either no one is using them or alot of companies are using them. I think my board is all SMT, I actually bought it from Dave, I was thinking about building one when he mentioned he had a few for sale way back then, I beleive I paid about $100 total with shipping, one of the best 100 bucks I've spent for my system. I use it without the case or a lense in front of the sensors and set it about 1" from the screen on an angle facing upward.


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18581860
> 
> 
> I have no idea what The total cost would be. Also I need to find the parts and have to buy a Chip programer for the PIC 18F2550 Chip. the Sensors are what will hold back this project unless TAOS can get me some samples at first for the prototype, then After I build one and make sure it works i'll get back to you.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



If it comes out the same price or cheaper as a i1LT and last longer, I am willing to wait for it.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/18585020
> 
> 
> Hi Athanasios,
> 
> 
> As far as I understand the probe requires the file so it has a reference set of numbers to base it's reading on. This file is built using an existing probe like the eye1pro or any other probe for that matter.



If it uses a reference as a base, does this mean the the HCFR probe can be re-calibrated in the future like the i1 pro? I assume so.


The cheapest probe I was able to find that could be recalibrated is the Chroma 5 for $600 and this includes the Chroma Pure software. They dont mention anything about recalibrating the probe though.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18585208
> 
> 
> I was thinking of trying to make it small enough to fit in an existing D2 probe for example and maybe do an exchange program where i could remove the guts of the D2 and replace them with the HCFR PCB. But that is just me thinking out loud now.



Or you can probably use a mouse. Much cheaper then tearing a LT apart











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18585208
> 
> 
> I am having trouble finding the Sensor chip. The Company has not gotten back to me yet and Future Electronics will not cut the reels they have.
> 
> Mousers date of delivery is December and Digikey does not carry them and Newark and Farnell also have a long lead time. There is one Place in Poland that has 7 chips but when I was in the checkout they did not give me a shipping method , it says no delivery to my Address. So now I am waiting for a response from a few Chinese chip carriers. I had luck before with some other hard to find parts so lets see what they will say.
> 
> 
> The Boards are being shipped so I want to order all the parts soon.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I also noticed that not many companies carry these in stock. Is it possible to order direct from the manufacture?


----------



## overclkr

Quit GABBING LIKE A BUNCH OF LADIES and get to the real meaning of this thread.


----------



## overclkr


































































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

P.S. Almost 389,000 views. Awesome.


----------



## nashou66

Sweet!!!!! Always love your Shots Cliff!1 by the Way, how is that movie?


Nashou


----------



## mp20748

Been very busy, but did get to finish the magnetics today...

*Un-touched 1080P 72hz*


----------



## Prehjan

Yummy indeed....who is she and what movie is that from?


I am pretty impressed with the shots above, everything most of us are looking for, as far as PQ is concerned!


....based on these and prior shots, I am convinced now that "digitals" are the only way to go!!! (....after all how can you possibly replicate the "quality" of these shots???


Hello circuit city! I am sure that those highly trained clerks will help me choose the best PJ money can buy! (...also while I am at it I will sure to pick up a few bulbs... in case I need them in the middle of a movie!)


Here I come, anyone needs a M9000LC with all the goodies for pennies on the dollar???


I forgot who the actor is in that mutiny movie but he was also in a movie called "little big man", I loved that movie when I was a kid, (...a lot of nice "panoramic" type shots in it!


Martin


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18585896
> 
> 
> Been very busy, but did get to finish the magnetics today...



Nice, your images are always and simply nice.

I hope you remember me and..........

..........to update the Lumagen SW Rev (031610)


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350







YES ITS AN UNCALIBRATED DIGITAL!!!







*

JVC RS10









CRT G90 for close comparison


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18587946
> 
> *JVC HD-350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES ITS AN UNCALIBRATED DIGITAL!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



yeah, you can tell



















Nashou


----------



## dvh99

potc2 1080p 72hz


pj is cold so convergence may be a bit off.


----------



## nashou66

Just Got a call from TAOS , So I ordered 24 of the TCS3200.


And Just ordered the other parts on Newark, Some had to come from Farnell, I hate the extra 20 handling charge from them!!!











Athanasios


----------



## Gary Murrell

Mike, the scaler has improved your image bunches










have you played with the detail/sharpness settings any? you can get a pinch more sharpness with one click or so and add NO ringing in the process, people don't realize how much better a scaler makes their image look, in so many ways


-Gary


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18585828
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I aint so sure I beleive these shots. I think I need to see for myself!

















wallace


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18589691
> 
> 
> just got a call from taos , so i ordered 24 of the tcs3200.
> 
> 
> And just ordered the other parts on newark, some had to come from farnell, i hate the extra 20 handling charge from them!!!
> 
> 
> :d
> 
> 
> athanasios



:d


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/18590946
> 
> 
> I aint so sure I beleive these shots. I think I need to see for myself!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallace



See you a couple weeks!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18585896
> 
> 
> Been very busy, but did get to finish the magnetics today...



Smokin'!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## overclkr




----------



## winduptoy

Nice 2001 screens, Cliff! Mike; you're stuff is looking better than ever. Nash; The blend is really looking sharp. I'll be redoing my setup after I take it down to install silencer (hushbox). Here's what my tubes look like after 30 mos. of enjoyment (I was curious since they weren't showing any burn when I first got it.)


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18590288
> 
> 
> have you played with the detail/sharpness settings any? you can get a pinch more sharpness with one click or so and add NO ringing in the process, people don't realize how much better a scaler makes their image look, in so many ways
> 
> 
> -Gary




No sharpness. Or not that I'm aware of. Craig gave me the settings to put into the Radiance, and nothing I recall indicated sharpness or detail. Craig also said he does not use sharpening.


I'm thinking sharpening would effect things at the high resolution I'm running.


----------



## mp20748

*1080P 72hz!*


----------



## dvh99

i have tried 1080p 48hz but it gives an unwatchable picture, so you have to run the pj at 72hz.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/18592520
> 
> 
> i have tried 1080p 48hz but it gives an unwatchable picture, so you have to run the pj at 72hz.



Really? I ran my Marquee 8000 at [email protected] and had no issues and it looked really good.


Athanasios


----------



## dvh99

hi nashou maybe its because i am used to 72 hz now but at 48 hz the flicker is really annoying.


----------



## mp20748

*1080P 72hz*


----------



## Prehjan

72hz will have no flicker, 48 will!


Martin


----------



## dvh99

thats the same shot mike.


----------



## dvh99

mike you seem to be missing something from the bottom of the picture, i just watched this scene at the 38min mark and you miss a part of her neck.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18585896
> 
> 
> Been very busy, but did get to finish the magnetics today...
> 
> *Un-touched 1080P 72hz*



Are you kidding me dude!? These are some of, if not your best shots ever. That Radiance really did seem to improve the hell out of your picture. Dimensionality and sharpness has gone up several notches.


----------



## Prehjan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18592875
> 
> 
> Really? I ran my Marquee 8000 at [email protected] and had no issues and it looked really good.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




You need a decent VP to be able to run customized resolutions!


I think that he is using a vp and a htpc


Martin


----------



## mp20748

*More 1080P 72hz - UnTouched*


----------



## nashou66




----------



## nashou66

Some Narnia, Prince Caspian Shots... This is definitely my favorite Reference Movie. Great cinematography and colors.

Sent my i1 pro to be checked out. Wish i could get a pro to do this. No money though. So we have to settle for the by eye approach























































More in next post


Got Blend?


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

12 feet of Rodan-O-Blend!!!!!


























































Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

*A few quickies (not warmed up) @ 1080P 72hz - UNtouched!!!*


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000 digital


F/2.8 15s +3step

color management - png

The Fifth Element









Screen capture


----------



## nashou66

Here are some more I promised.


Two 2004 VDC Marquee 8500 Ultra LongBow's

fed [email protected] between the both of them Via two Tv-one C2-2250's and two Lumagen HDQ's from the Oppo BDP 83 onto a 12 foot unity gain Hurley Screen.















































Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Smokin'!


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Cliff


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/18622326
> 
> 
> Smokin'!



Cliffy,


If you're "smokin", you need to quit.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/18622852
> 
> 
> Cliffy,
> 
> 
> If you're "smokin", you need to quit.





lol,










How ya feeling Bruce? Hopefully a lot better.


Nashou


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18622888
> 
> 
> lol,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How ya feeling Bruce? Hopefully a lot better.
> 
> 
> Nashou




Unfortunately, with emphysema you NEVER feel better, it only gets worse.


I can't seem to get a straight answer as to how much longer I have to live. It ranges from a few months to 18 months. Either way, I can't do much of anything and can't remember things from yesterday......but I can remember things from 50 years ago perfectly.


----------



## mp20748

*More RAW 1080P @ 72hz...*


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC HD-350(RS10) Uncalibrated compared to 2x 2004 VDC Marquee 8500 Ultra LongBow's fed [email protected] between the both of them Via two Tv-one C2-2250's and two Lumagen HDQ's from the Oppo BDP 83 onto a 12 foot unity gain Hurley Screen uncalibrated









JVC









CRT BLEND









JVC









CRT BLEND


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18626366
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350(RS10) Uncalibrated compared to 2x 2004 VDC Marquee 8500 Ultra LongBow's fed [email protected] between the both of them Via two Tv-one C2-2250's and two Lumagen HDQ's from the Oppo BDP 83 onto a 12 foot unity gain Hurley Screen uncalibrated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT BLEND
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT BLEND



This is what we mean when we say that digital projectors produce a "flat" image without any depth. Also, the JVC images appear to be dark, and the dynamic range is compressed.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18626366
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350(RS10) *Uncalibrated*



Duh!


----------



## winduptoy

Nash; those look great! Haven't seen it yet, I guess now I'll have to. Did you manage to solve your 'sensor' issue? These seem to have better yellows than the ones you showed last week. Take a bow, you have been working very hard at this. (I really admire your persistance.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18629698
> 
> 
> Nash; those look great! Haven't seen it yet, I guess now I'll have to. Did you manage to solve your 'sensor' issue? These seem to have better yellows than the ones you showed last week. Take a bow, you have been working very hard at this. (I really admire your persistance.




Thanks, Well i just got word back From LA Haberlien at spectracal and my probe is fine. I just have Weird PJ's










For some reason i do not get the normal blue Hump typical of a CRT. i get a blue Dip. maybe its something in the way the Longbows Software adjusts the Blue g2 and drive. i have no clue but no matter what i do if i make 30IRE and 80 IRE close to perfect i get messed up mid IREs.


here are some pics of my latest HCFR session With Boilermakers D2 probe. i faced the Pj's this time.




















See the blue dip, it doesn't look like much but the mid Ire's are very noticeable to my eye and they definitely look greenish to me from about 35-65. You really see it as you go through the greyscale windows. 20 really looks blue but 30 looks great. I have no idea what to do. i posted over at curts with more detail.


nashou


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18630262
> 
> 
> Thanks, Well i just got word back From LA Haberlien at spectracal and my probe is fine. I just have Weird PJ's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason i do not get the normal blue Hump typical of a CRT. i get a blue Dip. maybe its something in the way the Longbows Software adjusts the Blue g2 and drive. i have no clue but no matter what i do if i make 30IRE and 80 IRE close to perfect i get messed up mid IREs.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> See the blue dip, it doesn't look like much but the mid Ire's are very noticeable to my eye and they definitely look greenish to me from about 35-65. You really see it as you go through the greyscale windows. 20 really looks blue but 30 looks great. I have no idea what to do. i posted over at curts with more detail.
> 
> 
> nashou



I imagine that you are taking this with the scaler in the video chain, correct? If this is the case, and if you want to be really sure, I would take out all the secondary processing ad go directly to the pj, then measure and see if you get the same.


I would calibrate with no aids to the video chain and then get your scaller in the mix and re do.


Can you post a zip file? Just curious to see the complete thing.


----------



## nashou66

Quote:

Originally Posted by *superleo* 
I imagine that you are taking this with the scaler in the video chain, correct? If this is the case, and if you want to be really sure, I would take out all the secondary processing ad go directly to the pj, then measure and see if you get the same.


I would calibrate with no aids to the video chain and then get your scaller in the mix and re do.


Can you post a zip file? Just curious to see the complete thing.
Yes I am. I think i tried what you said last year around september and got the same results. I thought the Tv-one c2-2250 blend unit might be altering something. I still had a hard time. Same greenish brown mid range IRE's and the Blue Dip. I never seen that on a CRT before. My previous single marquee 8500 i have calibrated and i had the blue hump. the strange thing here is i have blue drive down to about 5-7 , green drive at 0, and i think red it about 20. maybe higher.


here is my rough run HCFR zip.


I can't explain it. just seems odd on how the G2 and drive for blue and to some extent red behave on these two Pj's. A few clicks of drive really affects the blue low end more than I am use to on a marquee.

If it was only one of them then id say something was wrong, but both behave exactly the same way.


When i get time i'll go from my oppo directly into the marquee.s moome card. i'll have to make a knew memory for the [email protected] for it.

 

Left PJ Facing Tubes with D2 post cal.chc.zip 3.0732421875k . file


----------



## Mr Bob

Facing the pjs is not the right way to do it, that does not take into account the screen. DK if that will cure anything, but grayscale readings should always be taken from the screen, not directly from the pjs. And preferably from the angle of your best viewing chair.


Have you precision defocussed your blue, electrostatically? This will bump your high IREs up a bit, possibly help your mid and low IREs stay more linear. Defocussing your blue on CRT inversely mimics the blue drive - the more defocussed your blue is, the more blue you get in your whites. And vice versa - the more precise the trimpot focusing is, the more dingy your whites get, from the blue in them being attenuated.


With CRT, it's a delicate balance to defocus your blues enough to help keep the pressure off the blue drive, yet not have it be visibly defocussed during normal viewing.


You will be able to see the defocusing when you're up close and personal with your images, but from your normal viewing position/distance, you should not be seeing any of the blue defocussing. If you do, you've defocussed it too much. Stay on that fine edge...


b


----------



## nashou66

Hi Bob, yes i get the same results facing the screen. exactly and i use the screen offset function in Calman. same results. defocusing the blue makes things worse, the dip gets deeper due to the whites being already too blue. I really think it is something different with these PJ's. not sure what. they were to be used in the Apache longbow simulators. Would a P43 green tube cause this? They are the Fast persistence tubes. I am tempted to remove the green lens and go to clear just to see what happens. But my whites seem ok above 80 ire just about 70 they start to get yellowish. Like i said i never seen a blue Dip from a front PJ CRT, have you Bob?


And My Blue drive is really not even being used!!! i have it 5 out 100!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

No, have not seen this before. Curious as to how this eventually pans out...


b


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/18632660
> 
> 
> Facing the pjs is not the right way to do it, that does not take into account the screen. DK if that will cure anything, but grayscale readings should always be taken from the screen, not directly from the pjs. And preferably from the angle of your best viewing chair....
> 
> 
> 
> b



When I said directly to the pj I mean the connections from source to projector not the instrumentation. The FTL reading should be taken from the screen, since the gain on the screen will alter the FTL reading.


Some comments on your file Athanasios, and I mentions these as a constructively; I know that it is easier said than done and these things appear to have a mind of their own.


Your contrast level is a little to high, and of course this is very dependent on your room lighting too, but just based on the readings. Then thus brightness need to be adjusted too. Then based on your situation, I would adjust the colors first; It looks that you have oversaturated RED and, as crazy at it sounds and based on your readings, you have oversaturated BLUE. Once you have these better aligned, then I would go to mess with the grayscale.


Question... can't you adjust all these through the lumagen? Once you have the projector close enough, all the fine tuning and gamma should be done through the external processor.


Just some ideas ...


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Leo. Well i have color corrected HD-145's on the projectors.


I do have contrast up a bit to get more light output, i say about 64 on the marquee. Brightness is very low on that PJ about 20. the default start points should be 50 each but i found that after its too dim and the blue dip is worse .I'll try it that way for the right PJ when i have time and motivation. thius is getting me burnt out










And yes i could go into the lumagens and lower mess around with red and blue. the thing is if i bring blue back, and red for that matter, it will only make the mid IRE's more green. I did the primaries and secondaties with the AVSHD disc from the oppo. i should see how the primaries and secondaries are in the PJ by muting the appropriate colors In the PJ. It might be the Oppo is adding something. I think i remember seeing some light output from the blue while showing the Green Color field from the disc as I was putting on the i1 Pro cap to do a black calibration. I have spent sooooo much time down there things are becoming fuzzy.










I may try a different approach with the right PJ. Its typical to adjust red and blue around green. but since i have such weird behavior with blue and how it affects the drive really affects the G2 to a point it ends up raising blue g2 to where i loose black level and you can see it on the screen. I think i'll set the G2 adjustment for all tubes to where the raster just lights up, back off a click or two and then adjust red and green around blue. I noticed raising red and Green G2's do not bring the colors out of black as fast as the blue g2 does. i have to experiment here and pay attention more to what is actually going on with each color as i adjust.


It is a real mystery for me.


----------



## Web_Usr

Mitsubishi HC3800 Screenshots - Ameture photos. Actuals pictures are sharper than it appears on the photo.


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350(RS10) + PS3 compared to 2x8500 CRTs blended.







.*

JVC









CRT BLEND









JVC









CRT BLEND


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18633903
> 
> *JVC HD-350(RS10) + PS3 compared to 2x8500 CRTs blended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*
> 
> JVC
> 
> CRT BLEND



The color temp is SO FAR OFF between the two systems, it's hard to compare them.


----------



## mp20748

Where are the last two scenes on the Narnia Blu Ray? I now have the Blu Ray and would like to take those shots?.


----------



## Gary Murrell

the JVC looks flat compared to CRT, same thing I always say in person


-Gary


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18639195
> 
> 
> Where are the last two scenes on the Narnia Blu Ray? I now have the Blu Ray and would like to take those shots?.



Just redone the 1st 1 above was a bit flat







33.32 time for 1st 1 - 2nd a few secs on.


----------



## dvh99

that movie looks awesome, great colours but as far as the movie is concerned,it sucks.

if you haven`t seen shutter island yet, go see it it`s great.


----------



## nashou66

I love the Narnia movies along with the Golden Compass and all the Harry potter flicks. But to each their own.


Athanasios


----------



## dvh99

why do i see an ad of that monstrosity aside my post.


----------



## Kevin 3000

*Unmolested virgin comparisons - so she said







*

JVC HD-350 calibrated by eye


















Some old Modded 9500 CRT on the way to the dumpster


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/18626366
> 
> 
> JVC HD-350(RS10) Uncalibrated disposable piece of....



------------


*My Super Marquee 9500 at a whopping 1080P 72hz UNtouched..







*


----------



## dvh99

narnia barco data 700


----------



## dvh99

another narnia

barco data 700


----------



## nashou66

Ok did some work on the blend last night and tonight. Need to work on the right PJ again and then on the left again. Found out its not my probe and just the PJ's. not sure why they have a blue Dip but they do. So i used the lumagens finally to fix that and the primaries and worked on gamma at the 11 points. still need to touch up some more once i get my i1 pro back. this was done with a 3 year old or older Display 2. Tri-stimulus probes drift over time and should be profiled to a spectrometer like the i1. Alos i forgot to null the zone contrast modulation. so i had some color shifts . I need to zero that out and do the 2 pont greyscale in each PJ again and then go back to the CMS. Argggg. At least i can download the CMS files from the lumagens and save them. Zero it all out and then pop it back in after and tweak it out.


Also I took these from my second row of seating so there was zoom on the Camera.This causes some light loss i think.




















































































Nashou


----------



## Boilermaker

Lookin' awesome!!! All it takes is time.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boilermaker* /forum/post/18644301
> 
> 
> Lookin' awesome!!! All it takes is time.



My Eyes are killing me this morning, over 20 hours between three days of tweaking 6 hours last night. After i got done is when i realized i had the Zone Contrast modulation on the entire time i was doing the 2 point grey scale in the PJ's and then the 11 point with the lumagens. What i plan to do is:


*null the zone contrast

*Null the lumagen 11 point back to default

*null the CMS in the Lumagens

( I will save the current settings for everything with the PC controllers for all this of course in the Lumies and PJ's)

* work on the 2 point in the Marquee's

*this time I will do primaries in the lumagens first, I was never sure what the pros do workflow wise. Some suggestions here are welcome.

*Then go back and do the 11 point greyscale in the lumies

* adjust the gamma via the 11 point luminance in the Lumies

* See how the contrast and bl;ack levels turn out and adjust those accordingly

* go back and recheck 11 point grey scale and Gamma

* then work on the Zone contrast.


Witht he Zone contrast is where i am undecided on how t tackle it. I and Bob think its best to measure the luminance of each color in the center of the sreen and then zoome the image to the normal blend configuration and adjust zone contrast in the blend zone( Edge blending turned off for this) for each color to match the center. one thing this does though is alter the center a tad bit. so id have to go back and measure that again and then back to the zone and adjust some more. I really do not see any other way around this. All I know is it will take lots of time.


Thanks Bob for your help and pushing me to keep working on this.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18643807



Untouched!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18647698
> 
> 
> Untouched!



*Yep, still Untouched - still 1080P 72hz, and still natural looking..







*


----------



## Kevin 3000

:*JVC HD-350 to add to the comparisons







*


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/18648007
> 
> *Yep, still Untouched - still 1080P 72hz, and still natural looking..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You have less than one second to say SORRY Mike. ..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/18654852
> 
> 
> You have less than one second to say SORRY Mike. ..



Really... what should I apologize for?


Would that exceptional range of colors shown be an insult, or do you want me to apologize for the depth that's even being shown in the shot..











Or would you feel much better if I said I used PhotoShop to enhance my shots...


A simple process of loading the images in PhotoShop and first pressing the "Depth" tab, and from there the "Super Range of Colors" tab in the software..










Oh, and are you also trying to figure out how I was able to super-impose that image on my shot that shows an obsolete 8 year old CRT projector actually doing 1080P @ 72hz.........some things you have to keep secret..


----------



## mp20748

More straight from the camera Untouched shots...


----------



## mp20748

*More Untouched 1080P 72hz...*


----------



## nashou66

Hi Guy's the HCFR probe is done. I built one so far and profiled it to my i1 Pro. Seems to be working fairly well. Tracks consistently, just about a little less than the i1 pro itself, but the i1 Pro is much slower in the low IRE's. so for quick work or for getting it rough on the low end its great. I'll use the i1 Pro to touch things up when all i need to work on is the low end. In the HCFR program you can select which sensor will do the readings or both. I tested each one and found one did not read ell under 20 ire or not at all. So i will have to figure out which one it is and replace it. I figure i should test each one and find the best matching set. Lots of work for that though.










But i really am glad i built it. it was fun learning it and figuring out some other things.

There is anew Frmware for it 5.40 that can not be programed with the new programer i have. So i went to the web site and found it can be updated with the HCFR probe updater in the tool menu. Great! Only thing is there is no Tools menu!1

But thank god i have a mac and the mac version of HCFR has this updater tool. So i used that . I needed it because it would not work with the XP emulation program Parallels . So now all is well!


So i ran a calibration on my right PJ to get a bit closer tot he left. And next i will run more calibration on the left and I think it will be perfect. This is honestly the best i have seen this set up. Still needs some work but now I can watch and not be too bothers with the few scenes the blend is visible. in either dark side pans or extream bright white scenes.


But here are pics of the probe. I originally bought the square case but realized it wont fit unless i hack off a corner. but i tried it anyhow and it still will work just not protect the innards as well.



























Now some pics. The typical Fifth Element shots.




























































And this one I love as it shows so much more detail after a proper calibration.

Getting a proper calibration on a CRT PJ is the singe biggest upgrade you can do.

I wish i would have used the Lumagens long time ago. i had them just sitting there and thought i could dial in these Longbows via the normal G2 and Drive method. But these have a blue Dip not hump. so no defocusing here. i can actually keep blue sharp and get good whites using the Lumagens 11 point greyscale and gamma and the Primaries Gamut control.


I love the Lumagen HDQ's!! Wish i could afford two Radiance's



















Athanasios


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18678131
> 
> 
> Hi Guy's the HCFR probe is done. I built one so far and profiled it to my i1 Pro. Seems to be working fairly well. Tracks consistently, just about a little less than the i1 pro itself, but the i1 Pro is much slower in the low IRE's. so for quick work or for getting it rough on the low end its great. I'll use the i1 Pro to touch things up when all i need to work on is the low end. In the HCFR program you can select which sensor will do the readings or both. I tested each one and found one did not read ell under 20 ire or not at all. So i will have to figure out which one it is and replace it. I figure i should test each one and find the best matching set. Lots of work for that though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But i really am glad i built it. it was fun learning it and figuring out some other things.
> 
> There is anew Frmware for it 5.40 that can not be programed with the new programer i have. So i went to the web site and found it can be updated with the HCFR probe updater in the tool menu. Great! Only thing is there is no Tools menu!1
> 
> But thank god i have a mac and the mac version of HCFR has this updater tool. So i used that . I needed it because it would not work with the XP emulation program Parallels . So now all is well!
> 
> 
> But here are pics of the probe. I originally bought the square case but realized it wont fit unless i hack off a corner. but i tried it anyhow and it still will work just not protect the innards as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Thats great!!










Was if difficult to build?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassfreak* /forum/post/18680276
> 
> 
> Thats great!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was if difficult to build?



Not at all, I do lots of reconditioning of CRT projectors at the SMD level and once you practice its a piece of cake. The largest cost was the PCB's and the PIC programer. And finding the TAOS chips. Newark and mouser will not get theirs till december. The ones I got Directly from Taos was a luck. they had some they would give out to developers for tests. most already got them last year and these were extra.


I have 6 PCB boards and will build them all and test them and create a calibration file for each against my i1 Pro. I'll have to give them serial numbers and then name the calibration file with that serial number to keep them in order. I think i might order another 6 boards if there is interest i buying them.


Athanasios


----------



## bassfreak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18680321
> 
> 
> Not at all, I do lots of reconditioning of CRT projectors at the SMD level and once you practice its a piece of cake. The largest cost was the PCB's and the PIC programer. And finding the TAOS chips. Newark and mouser will not get theirs till december. The ones I got Directly from Taos was a luck. they had some they would give out to developers for tests. most already got them last year and these were extra.



I remember you mentioned about the difficulty of getting the sensors. Im glad you were able to get them sooner.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18680321
> 
> 
> I have 6 PCB boards and will build them all and test them and create a calibration file for each against my i1 Pro. I'll have to give them serial numbers and then name the calibration file with that serial number to keep them in order. I think i might order another 6 boards if there is interest i buying them.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I just finshed reading this thread about the probe and I like the results.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post10477985 


Depending on the price, I might be interested in one. Ill send you a PM


----------



## Gary Murrell

big plus not doing the blue defocus(gotta correct the gray problems though and thankfully we can), I can notice a big difference in image sharpness with blue focused up tight


-Gary


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/18684530
> 
> 
> big plus not doing the blue defocus(gotta correct the gray problems though and thankfully we can), I can notice a big difference in image sharpness with blue focused up tight
> 
> 
> -Gary



The thing is these Longbows do not behave like any other CRT i have seen calibrated. They do not get the blue hump. no matter if its focused or defocused.

I never seen a CRT behave this way RP or FP. Not sure what is going on either tube wise or electronically but it has me stumped. I gave up trying to figure out why and am happy using the Lumagen 11 point greyscale adjustments.


Athanasios


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/18680321
> 
> 
> Not at all, I do lots of reconditioning of CRT projectors at the SMD level and once you practice its a piece of cake. The largest cost was the PCB's and the PIC programer. And finding the TAOS chips. Newark and mouser will not get theirs till December. The ones I got Directly from Taos was a luck. they had some they would give out to developers for tests. most already got them last year and these were extra.
> 
> 
> I have 6 PCB boards and will build them all and test them and create a calibration file for each against my i1 Pro. I'll have to give them serial numbers and then name the calibration file with that serial number to keep them in order. I think i might order another 6 boards if there is interest i buying them.
> 
> 
> Athanasios




I used to reprogram all the PIC chips with the latest versions on the Marquees. The first time I tried it I couldn't find out if they had the fuses set, which would destroy the chip if I try to copy it. Fortunately, Electrohome must have wanted them open for their own reasons, so they were copyable. Unlike the Sony's, which use all SMT chips, the Marquee, with their discreet circuitry makes them relatively easy to work on and/or customize (as MP knows







).


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> Getting a proper calibration on a CRT PJ is the singe biggest upgrade you can do.



I couldn't agree more, and it is an absolute necessity with a blend.

The biggest difference I can see is the dynamic range is so great it seems to pop off the screen at you. This also might be because the ANSI contrast has increased so much with the huge reduction in bandwidth of a blend. It's hard to believe this is coming from a 13' screen!


Your screenshots look awesome - I really need to get a camera and take some also.


Bob


----------



## lembor2

Yes you do Boilermaker. Get some pics out there so we can see your rig.


----------



## winduptoy

Spent most of the nights last week redoing my setup. Pulled the lenses, checked tubes, made sure my best lens (cleanest and easiest focussing) was on green (was on blue), next best on red, etc. Backed off the gamma boost quite a bit, upped light output, did grayscale. I'm ashamed to admit that until now I had been doing screenshots with IS on and auto focus. Now using manual focus and no IS. I like...what do you guys think?


----------



## mp20748

*Still raw 1080P @ 72hz - UNtouched!*


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18733463
> 
> 
> Spent most of the nights last week redoing my setup. Pulled the lenses, checked tubes, made sure my best lens (cleanest and easiest focussing) was on green (was on blue), next best on red, etc. Backed off the gamma boost quite a bit, upped light output, did grayscale. I'm ashamed to admit that until now I had been doing screenshots with IS on and auto focus. Now using manual focus and no IS. I like...what do you guys think?



Wow!


----------



## napos

Winduptoy, this is very impressive! I still remember the first time I saw a G70! Jaw dropping experience! It was the moment I decided to get a CRT projector. The problem is I also still remember the last time I saw a G90: Most impressive image I have ever seen!!! Too bad I will never have one!

Anyway, congrats! The images look superb!!!


----------



## napos

Mike, the shots look even better than before since you got the Radience XS! I look forward to getting mine this week!


----------



## Mr Bob

Winduptoy -


Back before I had a manual focus cam I was stuck with whatever I could get. Sometimes it was dead on, sometimes way off, I had to sift thru each set and see it on a computer monitor before I would know for sure. It was a Tosh with Canon optics, which are dazzling, and for most shots worked well. But screenshots often confused it.


Now with my manual focus capable Z712 IS, the little LCD monitor on the cam is still too small to know for sure every time, but manual focusing has been the best way to go ever since I go it. I just wish it had a numbering sys, so that I could dial it in for sure every time...


Nice shots!



b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *napos* /forum/post/18740767
> 
> 
> Winduptoy, this is very impressive! I still remember the first time I saw a G70! Jaw dropping experience! It was the moment I decided to get a CRT projector. The problem is *I also still remember the last time I saw a G90: Most impressive image I have ever seen!!! Too bad I will never have one!*
> 
> Anyway, congrats! The images look superb!!!



I got one , how much is shipping to greece !!











Just kidding, I can't believe i got mine so cheap. And its still in the back of my fathers jeep.


Athanasios


----------



## winduptoy

Nice job on the mini poem.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/18743216
> 
> 
> Nice job on the mini poem.



LOL, I'm a poet and didn't even know it!!!










Nashou


----------



## Bitwize

These were taken with a cheap Canon Powershot and no tripod. Thanks go to my wife










Sony G70 @ 1080p/60


----------



## Bitwize

More from the el cheapo Canon Powershot point-and-shoot w/ no tripod...


Sony G70 @ 1080p/60


----------



## Alan Gouger

Looking good guys. CRT delivers very clean low IREs, no dither. Very nice. Keep these coming.


----------



## napos

Since I finally got a Digital SLR (Nikon D3000), I will start experimenting with screenshots soon. Can anyone recommend some settings for the SLR? (ISO, Shutter time etc.)

I currently have two lenses: an 18-55 mm, and a 55-200 mm, plus a tripod.

Also, should I try and captura raw file, or will a high res jpeg do the trick?


Nicholas


----------



## artinaz

napos, use the tripod and the longest focal length you can use. The wider the lens the more distortion you will get on the screen (only affects geomtery and not color etc). But if you go too long, the entire screen wont fit.


If you are pausing the screen, have a shutter speed slower than your refresh rate. Look at the histogram to see if your image is properly exposed. You will get a more dynamic range thru RAW rather than from jpeg. However your processing skill of the raw image matters as well.


Get the color balance correct- for that shoot a gray image on the screen and use that as your white balance for raw processing.


... and dont forget to show us teh pics.


----------



## mp20748

More shots, but this time I've done some serious changes to the projector. A major change that required a retro mod board attached to the VIM.


Not really able to capture with the camera, but the actual brightness coming from my 9500 makes it look like a digital. Changes made to the CLM lowers the noise floor so much that the entire low end jumps out at you.


And it's VERY sharp at 1080P 72hz... so sharp and bright you'll think you're looking at a Digital.. but it ain't..


*1920X1080P @ 72HZ into my Super Modified Marquee 9500LC Ultra.*
 


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----------



## mp20748

More...


*1920X1080P @ 72HZ*


 


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## mp20748

  


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----------



## zapper

Nice blacks & colors.


----------



## napos

Aren't you glad you got the Radiance XS, Mike?

These look awesome!!!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *napos* /forum/post/19129279
> 
> 
> Aren't you glad you got the Radiance XS, Mike?
> 
> These look awesome!!!!



Yes, that Radiance is a powerful solution for the best image in high end CRT picture quality. It is almost a must...


----------



## mp20748

Here's a few more I took this morning. Still working from an incomplete setup, but I thought I'd take a few more to post even with a little light in the room.
*

1920x1080P @ 72HZ - Moome / Radiance / Super Marquee 9500LC*


 


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----------



## lexx21

That's an INCOMPLETE setup??? It looks absolutely FANTASTIC!


----------



## zapper

Say MP, did you calibrate your CRT the details seems great.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zapper* /forum/post/19131491
> 
> 
> Say MP, did you calibrate your CRT the details seems great.



No, not yet. I'll try and do so tonight.


I've made some significant technical changes that had bought that low end of tremendously. In fact, I had no idea I would be getting the results I'm now seeing, especially the shadow detail and clarity in the backgrounds.


----------



## nashou66

Mike i suggest you get Calman v4 a decent probe and use the interactive mode for calibration. its amazing!1 all automated. , i think you'll like it.


Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7

What's up guys? Anyone have a VP50 Pro they want to sell???


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/19131999
> 
> 
> What's up guys? Anyone have a VP50 Pro they want to sell???



Get a lumagen instead, no 11 point gamma/Greyscale control in the VP 50 i don't think.


Athanasios


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19132071
> 
> 
> Get a lumagen instead, no 11 point gamma/Greyscale control in the VP 50 i don't think.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Well, I need HDMI 1.3 and was hoping I could just copy all my setting over from the VP50 I have now to a VP50 Pro since Ken did my calibration with what I have now.


----------



## WTS

Your pics look very good except for the blooming, I'll assume that's the camera's fault.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/19132590
> 
> 
> Your pics look very good except for the blooming, I'll assume that's the camera's fault.



Yeah, that's something with the camera. The really bright sections of the images are very hard for the camera to deal with.


I may try bumping the exposure down on the next shots and see what happens - thanks


----------



## mp20748

I'm trying a different camera this time. I'm going from a Fujifilm S1500 to a Sony DSC-w290.


These shots are from the Sony:


 


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## mp20748

*Sony camera Full 1080P 72hz*

 


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## mp20748

more using the Sony camera...

 


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## mp20748

I've adjusted the Sony camera for a bit brighter image...


 


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## WTS

That looks better but there's still some slight blooming on the peaks.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/19138766
> 
> 
> That looks better but there's still some slight blooming on the peaks.



It's not a lot you can do about that blooming. It seems to have always been a problem with certain bright scenes. I've since got to a point of ignoring it.


I took a few more trying to look into it furthe, and I'm going even brighter in these few scenes:

*Full 1080P @ 72hz*
 


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## nashou66

Hi Guys, I finally got the Radiance XS's hooked up and figured out some bugs in Calman v4. I still have an issue where my i1 pro does not like to read the 75% IRE red to well. So i will attempt another calibration with all 100% gamut windows. i had to turn the probe to face the screen with no filter to get a decent consistent reading and adjustment. And then i checked again facing the screen and it actually read a bit better but still not each time.


I did a couple runs on the left PJ and only one on the right. there is a slight luminance difference and that makes a huge difference in getting a perfect blend zone. But this is by far the best i have had it. And with no Zone contrast modulation done. I still have to decide how i want to tackle that one. To bad Calman v4 did not interact with the marquee and two probes to do the zone contrast. I think I need andre to write the code for that










So for now this is the best I got, and the usual suspects screen shots of my favorite reference disc The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince caspian.















































My Personal favorite screen frame to use.












More to come, didn't want to fill up one post.


----------



## nashou66

Did some more work on the blend. This time the right PJ. Getting luminance of the Gamut, RGBCMY is critical as well as the greyscale for each IRE. Calman 4 really helps out in this regard. What i did was try to match as close as possible the Luminance of the the Gamut to the measured gamut on the left. I wish I had a meter that was consistently accurate from i say 15 IRE and down.


I think this is where i will have to do it by eye.











On this one you can see the Blend zone a bit...






























I love the new Radiance and Calman 4 combo!!!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

Whoo hoo...










JB came down on Friday and hooked me up with a new and EXTREMELY impressive screen screen to replace to replace my very small low resolution electric really old screen.


He not only assembled it for me, he provided the screen, and everything that made this great improvement possible.


I'm now seeing an image projected on a large (for me) 8' wide screen.


I had to move the projector back, and that was not easy. But after getting it all put in place, I could not wait to shoot a few shots.


I'll dial it in better later sometime, but even as it is, it looks so much better to me that It's not that important thatit's not perfect at this point.


*Full 1080P @ 72HZ*

 


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## mp20748

oh what a feeling when you have an 8' wide screen..










It ain't dark yet, so I'll be bak!


 


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## Alan Gouger

Hey Mike quit showing off










Looking good!


----------



## JBJR

Is lookin good Mike!! Sounds like you're diggin the new screen! Wish I could have stayed longer to see it in action and help move the pj back, but, wanted to miss most of the holiday traffic!


----------



## Alan Gouger

Athan are you blending two 8" or two 9". Looking killer.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/19150108
> 
> 
> Athan are you blending two 8" or two 9". Looking killer.



Yep 8" AC units, I know LC's would blend better as there is less Halo that carries over onto the un-scanned area of the tube just before the blend zone.


I did the 10% IRE by eye tonight and then did some zone contrast modulation by eye as well. Next step is to go with a 21 point greyscale. what would really be cool if the radiance had Color Saturation adjustments at say 4 points, for RGBCMY, then you would really nail down a perfect blend zone. It all plays into it. The more control of every CMS aspect the better.


here are a few from Two Towers again after the changes.


And did i mention i really love the Radiance!!!! Just awesome!!!















































Love it now, ready to start watching movies instead of greyscale windows !!!



















Nashou


----------



## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

On this group, I moved the camera forward to the screen and decreased the contrast from 79 to 73..


*Still raw and full 1080P 72hz*



 


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## Mr Bob

Mike, what are the settings on your BD10 that allow you that fine gamma performance without a gamma bump card?


I know we need that card - in my case outboard box - to achieve the gamma bump for DVRs and such, but I want to replicate what you are running on your BD10 player on my BD10 player for bluray discs, for a solid baseline without any intervention. You have obviously locked in the right settings...











I believe the best gamma ISF recommended in their recent Level II training at Monster Cable in Brisbane was 2.35 plus or minus a bit, and they are recommending that fixed pixel displays be set up to replicate what CRT does naturally - 2.35, plus or minus a bit.


What is the gamma value of a well set up gamma bump? Is it 2.35?


b


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/19155664
> 
> 
> Mike, what are the settings on your BD10 that allow you that fine gamma performance without a gamma bump card?
> 
> 
> b



I'm not using the BD10 in this setup. I'm using a Sony BDP-S360 running into a Radiance processor.


I've yet to calibrate anything. It's all by eye so far. What you're seeing is greatly improved low end performance from the projector mods and new screen.


The low end of this setup jumps off the screen at you. And it does it with everything else in the image being very bright.


----------



## Mr Bob

Is the Radiance running flat, or is it affecting the gamma? Since you have not done any calibrating yet, is all your equipment in the signal chain still set at flat?


BTW, obviously you don't need it with this setup, but does the Radiance offer the Gamma bump?


If you get a chance, shoot me those gamma values from your BD 10, from when you were running it awhile ago -


Thx


b


----------



## nashou66

Bob, the radiance is an amazing piece of equipment. Any calibrator would love to calibrate a display with this in the chain. You control all parameters of up to 21 points of greyscale and gamma. Full CMS for gamut and for each input with up to 4 separate memories per input. so say you have a dual format player like the LG BH200 that plays HD-DVD, BD and SD DVD. you can calibrate each type of media on the same input and have 3 different calibrations greyscale and gamut. And coupled with Calman v4 that has an interactive control of the radiance all you do is drag the gamma bar for say 30 IRE to the 2.4 gamma point and Calman and the radiance will adjust RGB to get the greyscale and gamma to be equal and reach 2.4. All automated.


For Gamut they have RGBCMY luminance and the CIE chart. just move the slider for luminance of the color you want to adjust to the point of luminance you want . it works with an absolute bar graph with a line for 0 and then above and below points of positive and negative values. What you do is make a measurement and then try to match all luminance for each color. Then you go to the CIE chart and drag your dot to the correct plot on the graph. That changes Luminance so you go back and forth till there is no change between the two. But i try to keep the luminance closer together than worry about gamut CIE chart accuracy fro my blend.



It is an amazing piece of equipment, and with Calman v4 a calibrators dream, With this set up id have to say i do not need a pro calibrators services any longer.


Its that good !


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Well I am sure you don't, now that you have purchased several thousand $ worth of gear and programming! Plus invested many precious irreplaceable hours on the learning curve...











Whoever is willing to do that - and has the time and money to do so - will not need the services of a calibrator either!











But all joking aside, yes both of those calibration tools are top notch, absolutely cream of the crop. I have total professional respect for both of them.


b


----------



## nashou66




----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19169731



Thanassi,


Very impressive for AC units!!! I know the camera always lowers black level on screenshots, but still you have absolutely no "light difussion" in the last shot!

What kind of settings are you using on the Radiance? Are you lowering your G2 levels and bringing up detail with the Radiance?

Looks awesome!


Nicholas


----------



## Gary Murrell

you guys need to take some shots of I Robot







, blu-ray or dvhs







, pretty much my top pick for PQ


-Gary


----------



## mp20748

I'm bak..










Had a few more things to do before wrapping things up. Now that's all done, I'll be posting more shots. These were taking this morning with more light in the room than I would want, but I thought I'd take a few anyway.


*Full 1080P @ 72HZ - 100% untouched*



Sony Blu Ray - The Super Dynamic Radiance - Moome - My 9500LC Contrast 60
 


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## mp20748

A few more, but now with the Fuji camera.


Still straight from the camera - raw shots from my new 8' wide screen.

 


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## mp20748

Now trying my sons PS3 player into the Radiance. The latest PS3 player has a more intense or brighter image, compared to my BDP-360.


These are quick and dirty shots (not adjusted or warmed up).


believe it or not, the contrast is set at 55.

*

Still Full 1080P 72HZ raw shots...*


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## mp20748

A few more...


I'll finish the setup and do the calibration this weekend.

*

Full 1080P / 72HZ RAW*

 


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## mark haflich

Hi Mike. How`s it going? I didn`t realize those scenes were in the 5th Element, been a while since I`ve seen it.


----------



## mp20748

Hey Mark, all is well. How are you and can you call me. I don't have your number anymore.


----------



## zapper

You guy's are driving me nuts with those excellent shots,







but KEEP it up.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/19199267
> 
> 
> I didn`t realize those scenes were in the 5th Element, been a while since I`ve seen it.



LOL. Why doesn't that suprise me Mark?


----------



## Gary Murrell

hey Mike, you have some raster ringing there..i'm sure you can work that out










I enlarge the PJ width out to get most of the junk off screen and then bring the horizontal porches back in on the scaler to make proper image size to fit screen...100% clean image then


-Gary


----------



## nashou66




















































































Nashou


----------



## mp20748

It's getting time to dial things in...


Already started on the coils/focus last night. Will work on the geometry and finish things up next week. Should have everything finished by next weekend, and will wrap things up and finally put the covers back on the projector.


Blu Ray - Moome - Lumagen - Marquee 9500LC - 8' wide JB screen / Contrast 59

*

Still FULL 1080P @ 72hz - 100% RAW / un-touched.*

 


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## BrianC69

Only problem I can see with these latest screenshots is...


...too much RUE-BEEE ROOOOOD, and not enough LEELOO!!



















Looking GREAT, guys!! I'm GREEN with envy!!


----------



## stefuel

I can't get imageshack to work.

It says you don't have to register but it hangs up when I try to upload a image.


What other free service can I try?


----------



## nashou66

fliker?


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Panasonic AE4000 1080P/60


----------



## techman707

Hey Cliffy,


MP's screenshots look really nice, _(but it's bad enough having to look at Nancy Grace in SD, but watching her and seeing the interlace lines is too much even for me.







_) but, looking at the AE4000's picture and considering its price, it gives you something to think about.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/19230493
> 
> 
> Hey Cliffy,
> 
> 
> MP's screenshots look really nice, _(but it's bad enough having to look at Nancy Grace in SD, but watching her and seeing the interlace lines is too much even for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _) but, looking at the AE4000's picture and considering its price, it gives you something to think about.



Yes it sure does Bruce. That Panasonic is really nice for the price. Same light output as a single G90 on my screen but obviously the blacks aren't as good but for 2 grand I've really enjoyed it.










Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

A few quickies directly from my 8' wide screen. Almost 1/3 through the setup, with convergence and other things still off.


Needs a lot of work still, but I'll post a few as they are anyway..


*

Full 1080P @ 72HZ
*
 


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## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19230632
> 
> 
> Yes it sure does Bruce. That Panasonic is really nice for the price. Same light output as a single G90 on my screen but obviously the blacks aren't as good but for 2 grand I've really enjoyed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Cliffy, of course the blacks aren't as good, that's expected, but look at the price and features.....and, if you wanted to hang it in your living room you don't have to call all your friends to help you hang it.







For those people that are married, you'll also save the cost of a divorce.







If you calculate the TOTAL savings from the divorce, it's probably enough to buy an RS35, which, I have to say, have blacks that are pretty darn good by any standard. I setup my RS35 with an ISCO anamorphic lens. I put on a Blu-ray of Casino on my 8.5' wide screen and one of my friends actually thought I was running 35mm film and didn't realize it was even video. That's the best compliment someone can give a video setup.


Theatres that have gone digital going from film to DCI compliment setups have spent between $75,000-200,000 and IMO don't look much better...if at all. The "standard" DCI non-3D resolution is still only 2036x1080, which is essentially not visually better than a "good" 1080p/24 Blu-ray. I say "good" because a number of the older pictures that I collect and bought on Blu-ray don't look much better than their plain anamorphic DVD counterparts. On the latest pictures today, the HD digital masters are usually scanned from either fine grain master positive or first generation inter-negative. That's closer to the original negative and of much better quality than any general release 35mm print I've ever seen. It's because of all these variables that make it a crap shoot when buying older movies on Blu-ray, unless they have been "restored". The reason I put restored in quotes is because many films that claim to be "restored" are just a lot of hype.










IMHO, visual picture quality has never been better. It's a whole new ballgame. Now all they have to do is make the story itself as good as the picture quality and everything will be good to go.










ENJOY IT WHILE YOU CAN!


----------



## stefuel

Bruce, If you're up to it, pease post a screen shot from the RS35 with your favorite movie










How's things?


----------



## mp20748

  


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## dvh99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/19231150
> 
> 
> Cliffy, of course the blacks aren't as good, that's expected, but look at the price and features.....and, if you wanted to hang it in your living room you don't have to call all your friends to help you hang it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those people that are married, you'll also save the cost of a divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you calculate the TOTAL savings from the divorce, it's probably enough to buy an RS35, which, I have to say, have blacks that are pretty darn good by any standard. I setup my RS35 with an ISCO anamorphic lens. I put on a Blu-ray of Casino on my 8.5' wide screen and one of my friends actually thought I was running 35mm film and didn't realize it was even video. That's the best compliment someone can give a video setup.
> 
> 
> Theatres that have gone digital going from film to DCI compliment setups have spent between $75,000-200,000 and IMO don't look much better...if at all. The "standard" DCI non-3D resolution is still only 2036x1080, which is essentially not visually better than a "good" 1080p/24 Blu-ray. I say "good" because a number of the older pictures that I collect and bought on Blu-ray don't look much better than their plain anamorphic DVD counterparts. On the latest pictures today, the HD digital masters are usually scanned from either fine grain master positive or first generation inter-negative. That's closer to the original negative and of much better quality than any general release 35mm print I've ever seen. It's because of all these variables that make it a crap shoot when buying older movies on Blu-ray, unless they have been "restored". The reason I put restored in quotes is because many films that claim to be "restored" are just a lot of hype.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, visual picture quality has never been better. It's a whole new ballgame. Now all they have to do is make the story itself as good as the picture quality and everything will be good to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ENJOY IT WHILE YOU CAN!



the new blu ray releases from james bond (older movies) are very hard to distinguish if at all from the dvd, beware before you buy it.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/19231628
> 
> 
> Bruce, If you're up to it, please post a screen shot from the RS35 with your favorite movie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's things?



While I finally felt well enough to finally hang the RS35 a couple of months ago, I haven't been feeling to well enough lately to go down in the basement to watch much of anything. At least when I'm in Florida I don't have any steps to go up or down to watch movies.







But even there, I feel so tired most of the time that I wind up just watching the movies on the Sony 65A2020. That's one of Sony's SXRD rear screen TV models where ALL the optical blocks have gone bad....including mine. However, because Sony never came up with a fix (despite a few class action lawsuits), the "rebuilt" replacements they've been putting in go bad a short time later. They extended the OB warranty until the end of December for my model, but if I don't get down to Florida before then, I'll wind up with a large boat anchor.










I'll try to post some screen shots from the RS35 when I get a chance, but, the only camera I have is only a 1.3 mp Olympus, so I really don't think any screen shot I take would do justice to the RS35.


----------



## stefuel

Bruce,

So you're back up north?? Where in NY are you? Perhaps I'll kidnap you to go out for lunch one day.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/19235064
> 
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> So you're back up north?? Where in NY are you? Perhaps I'll kidnap you to go out for lunch one day.



Bruce doesn't like Ampros. He'll do a Sony or a Marquee, but no Ampros.










Just kidding big dog.


----------



## Gary Murrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/19232319
> 
> 
> the new blu ray releases from james bond (older movies) are very hard to distinguish if at all from the dvd, beware before you buy it.



this is soooo stupid







they destroy the DVD's, not even close


-Gary


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/19235064
> 
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> So you're back up north?? Where in NY are you? Perhaps I'll kidnap you to go out for lunch one day.



I'm in Queens. I've been up here since the beginning of April. I was supposed to go down to Florida at the end of August, but I got pneumonia again. It's like the illness with no end (except when you finally die).









I have to take steroids to breath and because they disable your immune system, among the many other miserable things it causes, it makes me susceptible to anything and everything.







My whole life my eyesight was perfect, it was actually better than 20/20. Now, because of all the prednisone I take, my eyesight is blurry most of the time. But unlike someone who wears glasses, it can change from minute to minute. Soon I won't be able to tell the difference between a Blu-ray and a regular DVD.







They say that prednisone can also cause cataracts and glaucoma.


But, other than the above, I'm doing great.


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19211991
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



Unreal depth and realism on this one


----------



## lordcloud

SteveMo's BenQ W5000












VS.


The Blend


----------



## dvh99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Murrell* /forum/post/19236317
> 
> 
> this is soooo stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they destroy the DVD's, not even close
> 
> 
> -Gary



i compared live and let die and it was very hard to tell the difference and maybe the placebo effect playes a role here too.


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvh99* /forum/post/19239883
> 
> 
> i compared live and let die and it was very hard to tell the difference and maybe the placebo effect playes a role here too.



I have the complete DVD set of all the 007 films, but, I have only seen a few of the Blu-ray versions. Of the few that I have seen, the Blu-rays do look better.....but it certainly isn't night & day better.










I recently bought "In Cold Blood" on Blu-tay to replace my anamorphic 2.35 DVD. In the case of that film, you can barely tell the difference, if at all. There are a number of other older films that also aren't very impressive on Blu-ray.


----------



## mp20748

Several more, but this time I've modified an 03 VIM, and it's SMOKING!


Still dialing it in, with still a lot more to do before it's ready.



Same camera, same settings, everything the same, with the exception of the VIM and finer projector tweaking...

*Still Full 1080P @ 72HZ - Moome - Lumagen - Marquee 9500LC w/ Super 03 VIM*

 


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## jjoboh

Guys this disc should be a nice source for screen shots you can get all the shots from one disc and really audition your setup
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1243227


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies - taking with a lot of light in the room.


I'm also using a Panasonic BD60 Blu Ray player for the first time on this setup. The player has all kinds of image settings in it, but I'm using only "NORM"


So I'm just trying out the new (to me) Blu Ray player. Everything still not yet calibrated..

*Still Full 1080P @ 72Hz - Moome - Radiance - 9500LC - 8' wide screen*

 


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## cencio

Hello Mike,

I'm waiting for the v3 from Moome.

At what film does this picture belong?

Thanks


----------



## Gary Murrell

Fifth Element










-Gary


----------



## cencio

Thanks!


----------



## nashou66





















Athanasios


----------



## WTS

Hi Athanasios,


I think those are the best pics I've seen from your setup yet, nice job.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/19261230
> 
> 
> Hi Athanasios,
> 
> 
> I think those are the best pics I've seen from your setup yet, nice job.



Thanks Walter,

I'm getting closer, I know i have to start from the Ground up with the calibration.

I wish i had a few days with no work, no internet, and no phones, and lots of ambition

along with patients. Although most of you think I have tons of the latter for doing the blend.

There are many Times i feel like taking it all down, converting the 8500's to 9500LC's and stacking them.


However after i get this close and forgot about taking screen shots to show the progress and I

end up watching half the movie !!! I then think, nope!!! I am going to keep going forward!!!



















Now using the Zoom on the camera, they always add lots of noise. Just tried it for fun.






























Athanasios


----------



## mp20748

A few more on my way to finishing things up...

*Still Full 1080P 72HZ*

 


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## mp20748

more...



I'm posting these showing the text in the bar. The blooming text shows me that I'm in the wrong camera mode.


 


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## Chaunce

zomg


----------



## Zues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *littlekidlover* /forum/post/19274824
> 
> 
> mp20748 your shots are beautiful... seriously




It's just gotta be trickery, very high mega pixel cameras, photo tweaking, etc


----------



## mp20748

What you see is what you get..










 


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## cencio

God save Mike!










At what film does this picture belong?


Thanks


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19284413
> 
> 
> God save Mike!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At what film does this picture belong?
> 
> 
> Thanks



The Blu Ray is Resident Evil - Extinction


It's somewhere in the openings


----------



## mp20748

Now back to the Sony camera but now in the "Intelligent Mode"



 


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## mp20748

Now back to the Fuji camera.


A few shots from the Blu Ray HOME


 


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

A group larger group of shots all straight and un-touched from the camera directly to imageshack.


*Still Full 1080P /72hz - Blu ray - Moome -9500LC - 8' wide screen
*

 


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## mp20748

Ok, I finished my Marquee mods this morning. Done!..










I'll now finished the setup on the PJ this weekend.


These are also straight from the camera untouched shots.


Full 1080P /72hz - Moome - Radiance - Marquee 9500LC with Super 02 VIM

 


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## playsoccer

This is really interesting pictures and shots. Thanks for sharing with us


----------



## mp20748

Contrast 50


 


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## Per Johnny

WOW Mike! Starting to look even more impressive.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Per Johnny* /forum/post/19333742
> 
> 
> WOW Mike! Starting to look even more impressive.



Thanks PJ..


I'm also upgrading and working on a blend system, that's also Marquee. I'll be posting some shots from that in a couple of weeks. That's really going to be something to see. I still have the images in my head from last Friday..


----------



## mp20748

*All still FULL 1080P 72HZ straight from the camera - the only thing different this time is that I've changed the video setting in the Blu Ray player from "Norm" to "Fine"...
*
 


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## nashou66

Had Analogrocks over last night from Curt palmes Forum.

What he saw was about the same as i will show now but

I had some issues and tonight i worked them out. I also

gained 5 inches in screen width!! Long story and its posted

over oon Curts site. But here are my latest.


Blendzilla look out!!!!










































































Now that i have it basically done i want to try using 96 hz instead of 72hz.


More work, but I just have to try











Athanasios ,


North East self proclaimed Blend master


----------



## wkosmann

Blendzilla is not too worried. See MP's post, 3 posts earlier.










Imagine, if you will, light intensity like a digital, blacks as black as the frame material on an SMX screen, the range and intensity of colors + the foreground and background resolution Mike is showing 2 posts earlier, on a 12 foot wide screen in a black hole. 2 projectors just loafing, yawning, looking around for a real challenge.

Bandwidth *is* king.


I will have to say though, for a non-Blendzilla set up, not too shabby.

















Just a humble blend connoisseur, caught up in the whirl-wind of current events..................


----------



## nashou66

Well you do not need bandwidth with a blend if you have a processor that can take custom resolutions










[email protected] is a piece of cake for a *stock* Pj no matter what make. 8 inch tubes can easily handle that as well. I have not even done a proper Scheimflug yet and it looks awesome. I compromised the outer edges to get the blend area sharp.


here is the latest pattern that Alluringreality made to go on the next version of the AVS-HD calibration disc. It was on a grey background but asked for him to make it black.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...3&d=1286840349 


Put it on a USB drive and use your Blu Ray play USB port to display it.


It really helps out in the Blend zone. I wish the grid lines were thinner but it works fine as is.


I am sure it will look awesome William.


Your lucky to have the resources for help setting it up.


ken gave me some guidance for the calibration aspect. So i am getting better with each redo.


Don't you just love a blend!!!


Id love to see the Tv-ones in that set up doing [email protected] !!!


I might have to bring it down and set up a second memory in your Marquee's to try that out, those babies will be hummin!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/19351734
> 
> 
> Blendzilla is not too worried. See MP's post, 3 posts earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine, if you will, light intensity like a digital, blacks as black as the frame material on an SMX screen, the range and intensity of colors + the foreground and background resolution Mike is showing 2 posts earlier, on a 12 foot wide screen in a black hole. 2 projectors just loafing, yawning, looking around for a real challenge.
> 
> Bandwidth *is* king.
> 
> 
> I will have to say though, for a non-Blendzilla set up, not too shabby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a humble blend connoisseur, caught up in the whirl-wind of current events..................



On last Friday we went out to Williams and upgraded his two Marquees...


We started out first with the left projector, and after finishing it, we compared the left with the unfinished right images firing both blended CRT's on his 12' wide screen.


Among several things noticed between the two separate images. One really stuck out the most. Not sure how to describe it, but I'll try. The low end or cleaner, lower noise performance from the left Marquee made the image projected from the right Marquee look like it was a cheap digital.


We then made changes to the right projector. His setup looks a lot like mine, but the potential was much greater. Considering no adjustments were made at the time.


We stopped doing anything else and set down and watched a few moments of a familiar Blu Ray.


I understand what William is saying above. That is one serious setup he has there.


----------



## wkosmann




> Quote:
> On last Friday we went out to Williams and upgraded his two Marquees...
> 
> 
> We started out first with the left projector, and after finishing it, we compared the left with the unfinished right images firing both blended CRT's on his 12' wide screen.
> 
> 
> Among several things noticed between the two separate images. One really stuck out the most. Not sure how to describe it, but I'll try. The low end or cleaner, lower noise performance from the left Marquee made the image projected from the right Marquee look like it was a cheap digital.
> 
> 
> We then made changes to the right projector. His setup looks a lot like mine, but the potential was much greater. Considering no adjustments were made at the time.
> 
> 
> We stopped doing anything else and set down and watched a few moments of a familiar Blu Ray.
> 
> 
> I understand what William is saying above. That is one serious setup he has there.



To amplify a bit on several of Mike's comments above, the MP mods to the twins are complete. The latest mods to the 50-2035-03 VIMs put performance over the top. The increase in brightness and resolution, and the decrease in noise, particularly in low IRE, was astounding. The whites were whiter. The Blacks were blacker. All the colors were more intense. Everything was cleaner. The image just jumped right out at you (sorta like what 3D is supposed to be all about.) Mike has been telling me for two months that I'm gonna love the latest mods. He was absolutley correct.


This coming Sunday, we intend to re-set up the geometry, from scratch, to maximize the number of lines on the screen, and to include zone convergence. Then Mike will look at and touch up the mechanical and electronic focus, the Scheimflug settings, the magnetic setup, and the astimagism settings (all, only as necessary).


The final step (probaby not next Sunday) will be to re-set up the gray scale and color balance globally on the left projector, then match the right projector to the left projector, then touch up the 3x3 local zones on each projector. At that point (in about 3 weeks) the blend setup will be done. Then, we'll sit back and watch something (the Holy Grail of all HT enthusiasts).


Last Friday, when Mike and I were looking at selected reference scenes in The 5th Element (after having installed the VIM mods on both projectors), Mike kept saying "I've never seen that before". This, on a somewhat partially calibrated setup. Even in its pale cast moon shadow current state, the blend is the brightest and sharpest I have ever seen it. I can't wait for the final product. What a difference from what we got to see at the first East Coast Blendzilla Meet in 2007.


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350 (RS10) Comparisons*









*CRT 9500LC Modded to look like a Digital







*








*

JVC*









*CRT Modded*









*JVC*









*CRT Modded*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/19358131
> 
> 
> 
> CRT 9500LC Modded to look like a Digital



Hey Kev, or should I refer to you as the minic..










Good to see ya back around these parts of town.


----------



## nashou66

So I remember when I was at Cliffs Meet a couple years ago and he put on a

D-VHS of Moulan Rouge and thinking WOW, this is the strangest film and cinematography

I have ever seen. it was eerily dark yet vivid and vibrant when colors were in the scene.

Now much detail in the shadows but immersive all the same.


So I saw that it came out on BD yesterday and had to pick it up. I was going to do a

touch up Gamma Calibration after watching National treasure last night the snow scene in

the beginning had the blend zone showing the entire time.

I think parts are maybe whiter than white? I wish I could calibrate the 109% with

the radiance but they do not have that high a pattern. But there should not be a

109% white in any movie right? So i will have to revisit this area again and wanted

to tonight. Having said that i now watch an movie for about 30 minutes for warm up, but

I ended up watching the entire movie. Its really good!! At Cliff's we only watched selected

scenes he want to show off.


Well I decided to take some screenies for Cliffster!!





















































































I think it is also purposefully shot a little out of focus or the camera guy had a hard time

focusing in the lighting they used as in some scenes you can see them do a close up on a

face and then after a second it will begin to focus. Not sure if it was done on purpose but it

worked for the film.


For color reproduction tests this is a reference disc, it also has lots of film grain, so i guess if

you see that your focus is done properly










Athanasios


----------



## Bitwize




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/19358131
> 
> *JVC HD-350 (RS10) Comparisons*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CRT 9500LC Modded to look like a Digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> JVC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CRT Modded*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JVC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CRT Modded*



Nice shots, Kev, but the CRT still looks more realistic (especially the colors). There's also a bit more dimension to the CRT shots. JVC is definitely closing the gap, but a good CRT still wins for overall picture quality. Maybe you should get the upcoming JVC RS40 or RS50 and post some shots. Should be even closer to CRT


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19366776
> 
> 
> Well I decided to take some screenies for Cliffster!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



NASHOU!!!!!!!!










Brother those shots are SMOKIN'. I did some playing for you tonight. Here is a few.














































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Sweet Cliff!!!Is that D-VHS or BD?


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19376920
> 
> 
> Sweet Cliff!!!Is that D-VHS or BD?
> 
> 
> Athanasios



BD PS3 1080p/60










NASHOU!!!! Big Dog I needs to get back into this screenshot thing!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19376930
> 
> 
> BD PS3 1080p/60
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NASHOU!!!! Big Dog I needs to get back into this screenshot thing!



So you picked it up big dog!!!!!!!


I upped my refresh rate to 96 hz and did a quick set up


So overall picture between two Projectors is [email protected] hz!!!


next i will hit 120 hz, that will close in on the 150mhz pixel clock mark.





















Nashou


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19377265
> 
> 
> So you picked it up big dog!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> I upped my refresh rate to 96 hz and did a quick set up
> 
> 
> So overall picture between two Projectors is [email protected] hz!!!
> 
> 
> next i will hit 120 hz, that will close in on the 150mhz pixel clock mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



That is pretty SICK big dog. Your not going to have any problem doing 3D if you want.










I'm heading out to the east coast soon bro to pick up my 6 shiny new tubes for the retube project!


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

  


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## overclkr

Oh I gotz somethin' for you to Mr. Mike.










Stand By........


----------



## nashou66

Cliff you have to stop buy dude!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350 (RS10)*










*CRT 9500LC Modded Out*


----------



## dvh99

those jvc shots look cartoonish and they do even more so in real life.

i was not impressed with the hd750 that was calibrated.


----------



## ImaStar

Much the same thoughts when I saw one in Magnolia. However I'm a fan of some of Kev's shots when it comes to digitals. So kudos for the comparisons.


----------



## cencio

These are some pics take quickly last night after all the 9500 lc ultra upgrade.
*1920 x 1080 p 72 Hz Marquee + Lumagen + v3 Moome*


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19384554
> 
> 
> These are some pics take quickly last night after all the 9500 lc ultra upgrade.
> *1920 x 1080 p 72 Hz Marquee + Lumagen + v3 Moome*



Wow..










Those are some excellent high bandwidth 1080P 72hz shots, and if you got those results first time after setup and from not really doing screenshots, you must be one very happy Marquee owner right about now. I have the same mods in my Marquee, so I know first hand what it must look like seeing it on the screen.


If I remember right, you upgraded from a previous version of the mods to my very latest Super version.


Dude, you make me proud..


----------



## cencio

Oh thatnks Mike. I'm glad for your words.

Since from 2 months Iìm searching for the best mod of my Marquee.

In my pj there are now these mods:

A) latest Mike Parker Super version of the 02 VIM.

B) latest M.P. mods of the neck boards.

C) latest M.P. mods of the CLM.

D) latest version v3 pf the full HD Moome input card

Then I have removed the Colour Correction board and the ACON boards to reduce the electronic weight to all the pj.

I have made at first a complete setup of the pj (stigmation, flare, focus and convergence and then colour temperature setup). Only at the end of these processes I have connected the many sources by the Lumagen Radiance xs making some adjustments on the processor.

That's all.


----------



## nashou66

Very nice Vinnie!!! Are you using any Calibration software and probe at all?


Athanasios


----------



## cencio

Thanks Athanasios!

No. I have the Colorfacts and Cayman software with the EyeOne probe but at this moment I have used only the work of my eyes









Later I can post the right dimensions of the pics.
*BluRayDisc into OPPO BD 83 SE*








*BluRayDisc into OPPO BD 83 SE*








*HDDVD into TOSHIBA HD XE1 player*








*BluRayDisc into OPPO BD 83 SE*


----------



## nashou66

Wait till you use the radiance greyscale and Gamma adjustments. If you want to make it easy get Calman v4 that allows interactive mode where the program and radiance do all the work. Its awesome!1 then after you can make changes right int he Calman program because it puts the controls for the Radiance right on the screen. you just click the + or - or move a slider bar. really slick.


Athanasios


----------



## cencio

I would like have the v4 version. When I buyed the old version from Curt it seems that the v4 version should have been free.

Now I don't know the situation.

Let me know about it.


Thanks


----------



## nashou66

Ok you have v3.7 then correct? I think there is a upgrade charge. its not for free but any new relase in v4 like 4.xx will be free. Only major new versions will be charged.


To buy it outright its 499
https://spectracal.com/purchase.aspx# 


But why not send an e-mail to them and see what they can do for you. they might

give you a better deal.


Tell them you have the Radinace XS and what probe your using. I'll tell you its worth it

if you do not want to use the remote.


you will also need a USB to RS 232 adaptor, i recomend the Keyspan version. One that has the FTDI chip set works best.



Athanasios


----------



## cencio

Do it!


----------



## Par

Here are some pics from my little 8500 with HD145 lenses, moome card, and all of DRAGAN MEJIC's mods. All shots are from an oppo BD-83 BR at 1080p/60 direct to the PJ onto a 110" screen. I picked up a disassembled 9500lc for $500 with perfect tubes so I hope to upgrade to 9" tubes but I'm blown away with the picture I'm getting now after all of Dragan's hard work. It will be hard to take this PJ apart.


----------



## ImaStar

Nice! Looks like the fingers are coming off the screen in the one shot.


----------



## Gary Murrell

damn brotha







, I still say a AC has a pinch extra detail/crispness over a LC and these pics show it


-Gary


----------



## dthibode

MP and Par, colors look amazing. WTG!


----------



## lordcloud

Very nice Par.


----------



## cencio

*Some shots more*


----------



## mp20748

Now more from the other 1920x1080P 72hz CRT projector...



A really dark and colorful movie.


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## lordcloud












vs


----------



## neo991lb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/19393912
> 
> 
> (snip)
> 
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> (snip)




Whoa! What are those comparing?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19392578
> 
> 
> Now more from the other 1920x1080P 72hz CRT projector...
> 
> 
> 
> A really dark and colorful movie.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
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WICKED!!!! You little GRRRRRR..... You snuck these in on me!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19394462
> 
> 
> WICKED!!!! You little GRRRRRR..... You snuck
> 
> these in on me!














A few more, but this time I'm stepping down to 60HZ...

 


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lordcloud* /forum/post/19393912
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs



The only real difference between the two is that I have a RED C element.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19394625
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few more, but this time I'm stepping down to 60HZ...


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19394679
> 
> 
> The only real difference between the two is that I have a RED C element.



Probably you are right.

But I have already told that my camera doesn't get what my eyes see.

Then I have decreased the colour gain into the Radiance.

And then: have you ever have seen the face of a mordered man?


----------



## Par

Dragan Modified 8500 at 1080p/60 Direct from OPPO





























My favorite Vampire!


----------



## mp20748

  


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## cinema mad

G70 with Brand new Sim Grade Tubes installed running 1920x805p 48Hz..

Screen Shots of How To Train Your Dragon (1066x800)..


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19395718
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us



I like the color density and the general cleaniness of the image in these. EXTREMELY impressive and crisper than a lot of your pics. Keep doing whatever you did to get these.


----------



## cencio

*Some shots more: will be they correct my judges?*


----------



## nashou66

NICE!!!!!!












Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000

*JVC HD-350 RS10 Comparison*










*CRT... I think MAYBE a Digital....overclkrs*


----------



## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

Changed to a different VIM - Still 1080P 60hz..

 


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## mp20748

Dang, just when you think you're done, you're not..










A few more...

 


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/19397408
> 
> *JVC HD-350 RS10 Comparison*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CRT... I think MAYBE a Digital....overclkrs*



That aint no digital. It's my STACK. That RS10 just got SMOKED.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

mp,


This is the BEST from your post!!!!!!!







I love it! The shades(gradient) from dark to light is awesome! Every area on this picture is amazing!


----------



## mp20748

Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


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## overclkr

Mike, All of a sudden your shots are looking Smokin'










You trying to give me some comptetition?

















I might have to leave myself out of this round as to not incriminate myself.










Cliffy


----------



## cinema mad

Thanks heaps for the complement & enbeding my screen shot Nashou..

my little G70 throws A Stunning image with Gregs Sim Grade Tubes installed



Cliffy you need to pull out all the stops & get hold of 2 of Gregs RAZER Sharp Green Sim Grade tubes for the Mighty G90 Stack my friend..

you'l be back on top of the pack in no time flat especially with Ken Whitcomb ontop of all that







..


I would be happy to throw $100 into the Pot as Im sure others would be

to make this happen...


Cheers...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/19414780
> 
> 
> Thanks heaps for the complement & enbeding my screen shot Nashou..
> 
> my little G70 throws A Stunning image with Gregs Sim Grade Tubes installed
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy you need to pull out all the stops & get hold of 2 of Gregs RAZER Sharp Green Sim Grade tubes for the Mighty G90 Stack my friend..
> 
> you'l be back on top of the pack in no time flat especially with Ken Whitcomb ontop of all that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> 
> 
> I would be happy to throw $100 into the Pot as Im sure others would be
> 
> to make this happen...
> 
> 
> Cheers...



Wow, yeah I would be more than happy to go that route, but we all have our own personal things to take care of when it goes to finances, but to be completely honest with you the G90 magnetics do a most excellent job on focus and if the new tube's I'm bringing home to install don't do justice, then yes, I'll be glad to explore other options.










Cedia coming to my neck of the woods this year and I will be determined to give the best CRT performance possible.










Cliff


----------



## wkosmann




> Quote:
> Cedia coming to my neck of the woods this year and I will be determined to give the best CRT performance possible.
> 
> 
> Cliff



So, you're upgrading to a pair of blended Marquee 9500LC Ultras?


Cool........................


----------



## cinema mad

Na I dont think Cliff would be planning on down grading














..


Cheers...


----------



## mp20748

  


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19421827
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Oh my that is pretty.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/19418839
> 
> 
> So, you're upgrading to a pair of blended Marquee 9500LC Ultras?
> 
> 
> Cool........................



I'll see you in less than 3 weeks Sir.










Where is Clarence?


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Lucky, I still had strength to do some screenshots tonight. I'm normally tired once I get home from work in downtown since it takes me 1 hr and 50 mins to get home, that's 1.5 hours travel via Metra.










Anyways, here are few shots I took this evening. These are from "How to train a dragon". The projector is still the same, Sony VPH 1272q with 5300+ hours. Burn on green tube is obvious. It's on the right side.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

few more ...


----------



## wkosmann




> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by wkosmann
> 
> So, you're upgrading to a pair of blended Marquee 9500LC Ultras?
> 
> 
> Cool........................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll see you in less than 3 weeks Sir.
> 
> 
> Where is Clarence?
Click to expand...


I don't know. He has not answered my PM. I've even sent the BBQ God looking for him, as they just live down the street from each other.


Looking forward to just under two weeks from now.....................


----------



## mp20748

Planet Earth...


 


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/19423659
> 
> 
> I don't know. He has not answered my PM. I've even sent the BBQ God looking for him, as they just live down the street from each other.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to just under two weeks from now.....................



Yes, Two weeks, my bad.










I'm looking foward to hanging out with my buddies. Gonna be good times for sure.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I'll post pics later again. The image quality of Toy Story 3 is phenomenal!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I'll post more pics later ...


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

that's me in the background, hehehe






















































one of the trailers before the movie


----------



## overclkr

Wow!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Thanks!







I accidentally learned something new from contrast adjustment. Before, my setting was between 65-70. I like it because it was bright. I was adjusting it the other day and noticed the freckles of a cartoon character showed up when I decreased it. It was darker but better. I also noticed the glowing of bright objects decreased. I also just learned 2 days ago that my Pioneer BDP-320 had a gamma adjustment. I think I increased it by 2 or 3 clicks.


My setup right now is a littler darker than before but becomes bright as we watch. Looks like our eyes makes some adjustments.










You should get Toy Story 3. The image quality is awesome!!!


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/19423659
> 
> 
> I don't know. He has not answered my PM. I've even sent the BBQ God looking for him, as they just live down the street from each other.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to just under two weeks from now.....................





It seems that just recently I read on Curt's forum that Clarence was going to be in Connecticut for 2 weeks.


So you are doing a meet this year William? I was fortunate enough to attend a few years ago and recall what a great time it was.


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies, that are a little dark. But maybe not so bad until I can warm the projector up and play with the exposure a little.


Full 1080P 60hz...
 


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## nashou66

Mike those are AWESOME!!!! By far the Best you have done!!


Nice job with the camera and colors look pretty good!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

I know, I know not more 5th Element Pics. But it is the reference disc most are familiar with.


I have been trying to tweak out the calibration using calman and my Radiance's. I was using 2.35 gamma and tried 2.25 last night and tonight. but the processing the Lumagen was using caused Posterization. I just now realized this probably happened because i used 2.4 when i did the 2 point calibration in the PJ. So when I went to use 2.25 it was tying to hard to overcome the 2.4 gamma of the display. So i had to reset it all and went with 2.35 on these pics. I must say 2.25 brightened up the low end a bit more so i might revisit the Pj's 2 point calibration. I ma not sure if my theory is correct with what I just said but thinking about it makes some sense.


So here are mu latest, I must say the blend zone is 95% invisible. Some scenes where the camera would pan across the screen would reveal the blend zone. I have that almost gone now!!!












































































































Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19438688
> 
> 
> Mike those are AWESOME!!!! By far the Best you have done!!
> 
> 
> Nice job with the camera and colors look pretty good!!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Well, you're definitely on another level there yourself. Especially on the blend zone, but everything looks considerably much better.


That Blu Ray in my last shots has some of best scenes I've seen on a screen. It is one of the best transfers I've seen so far.



thanks..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19440069
> 
> 
> Well, you're definitely on another level there yourself. Especially on the blend zone, but everything looks considerably much better.
> 
> 
> That Blu Ray in my last shots has some of best scenes I've seen on a screen. It is one of the best transfers I've seen so far.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks..



Thanks Mike. Using the radiance and CalMan calibration software really helped as did using the contrast modulation. That was a pain since i had to move the Probe to each zone to measure RGB for the 100% white field.


I agree Narnia rince Caspian is a stunning disc, colors are abundant, and the cinematography is excellent. Overall it is my favorite reference disc. I never can decide what screen shot to take. Id end up showing the whole movie here if posted each shot i want to take !!











So not hat the blend calibration is basically done i can move onto doing some mods to theses stock Marquee ultras!!. its been a long time !!


Soft recovery diodes on the CVA and VDM are first on my list as is some LVPS mods .


But first maybe a month of just watching movies!!!


Athanasios


----------



## cencio

I like much your shots.

And I like muche more because I potentially should be able to obtein the same results if only known the exact steps of the procedure to make to work the CalMan and the Radiance.

Yesterday I have tried to do something but I need to know well the software.

Can anyone help me about it?

Thanks


----------



## nashou66

oh crap! I forgot to answer your PM!! At work now , give me some time and i'll get back to you.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Awesome shots guys!!!!!!


----------



## SteveMo

Some digital shots


----------



## SteveMo

Digital B&W comparison.


----------



## SteveMo

Next month I'll be watching a 60" LED flat panel. It's gonna be sweet. A couple more digital.


----------



## mp20748

*CRT..







*

 


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## SteveMo

Mike's CRT

 

Digital










Mike's CRT

 

Digital










Mike's CRT

 

Digital


----------



## stefuel

It's unfair to use those digital shots as they are obviously from a poorly set up projector of any type. Why someoe would even post them is past me.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/19485212
> 
> 
> It's unfair to use those digital shots as they are obviously from a poorly set up projector of any type. Why someoe would even post them is past me.



"Poorly setup, not fair." LMAO!


----------



## Bill Marsh

I admit The CRT screenshots are amazing and I really enjoy them but don't insult digital owners by posting such de-saturated shots as a comparison---it's just not accurate. You guys don't need to look better than you are.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Marsh* /forum/post/19485892
> 
> 
> I admit The CRT screenshots are amazing and I really enjoy them but don't insult digital owners by posting such de-saturated shots as a comparison---it's just not accurate. You guys don't need to look better than you are.



Stop posting the same scenes I have deleted since the years. There are some very original caps over in the blu-ray software forum. Here all I see is the same old crap. It is a shame to our community. Saturation is not reference unless it is in reference to the source material.


----------



## nashou66

Steve are you kidding us? Your shots have no color at all. I think he is doing it on purpose guys. Pulling our legs.


Athanasios


----------



## stefuel

It's a free country. Let him post what he wants.

However, he could post them in the -$5.00 digital forum and still get the same replies


----------



## SteveMo




----------



## winduptoy

Steve; Do you have the saturation turned down on your blu-ray player or projector? I've looked at the shots over on the digital forum and although your sharpness is good, your shots literally pale in comparison to others with regard to color accuracy, saturation and black level.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *winduptoy* /forum/post/19495044
> 
> 
> Steve; Do you have the saturation turned down on your blu-ray player or projector? I've looked at the shots over on the digital forum and although your sharpness is good, your shots literally pale in comparison to others with regard to color accuracy, saturation and black level.



Daddy's flown across the ocean

Leaving just a memory

Snapshot in the family album

Daddy what else did you leave for me?

Daddy, what'd'ja leave behind for me?!?

All in all it was just a brick in the wall.

All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.


"You! Yes, you! Stand still laddy!"


We don't need no education

We dont need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the classroom

Teachers leave them kids alone

Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.


We don't need no education

We dont need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the classroom

Teachers leave them kids alone

Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.


"Wrong, Do it again!"

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you

have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"



Another Brick in the Wall - Pink Floyd


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Hey folks, got a chance to watch Apocalypto. It's an awesome movie. My heart was pumping really hard and my body was shaking on some scenes! LOL!







The only thing I don't like, or maybe I misunderstood it is the last part. Why were there ships at the end of the chase?


Anyways, here are some pics I took after watching.


----------



## SteveMo

BenQ W5000 - Calman 3.6 (100% color AVS MP4) - ColorMunki


screen - off white wall 9ft width

hours - 3600

brightness 70

contrast 32

color 21

tint 0

iris 0

nd2 filter


----------



## nashou66

Thats a horrible calibration.


Athanasios


----------



## superleo

You can seriously call that a calibration. Your RGB gryscale has NO blue, and Green and Red are above 100% through out, then I guess to compensate for the non-balance grayscale your color are oversaturated. Gamma is way off, which means contrast and brightness are off... it might look bright... but its way off.


----------



## nashou66

This is how its done.











Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Athanasios,


I want to learn that tool. Where do I get it and what device do I need?


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/19505597
> 
> 
> Athanasios,
> 
> 
> I want to learn that tool. Where do I get it and what device do I need?



Well to get a calibration that close you need a few tools.


First you need the software, I use CalMan v4 But there is Chromapure( have that too) and the free HCFR program. You'll need a probe or two. The best is to have a Tri stimulus probe since these are fast and usually do not need a dark calibration but tend to drift over time. Also you should have a spectrophotometer like the i1 Pro or the new Colormunki Spectro. There is a tri stimulus colormunki so make sure its the spectro version. The reason you want two probes is the Spectro will not drift over time. The con of a spectro is they are a little slower reading, more expensive and require a dark reading every so often during the calibration session. But its accuracy is much better than a tri Stim probe. So to get the best of both worlds you can Profile a tri Stim probe against a spectro. this way you get accuracy and speed and no dark readings.


Now to get a nice calibration like mine you also need some sort of color control. Like the Radiance, dvdo duo, older lumagen HDP/HDQ or the Video EQ

CMS box.


do some reading over on the display calibration forums. its very helpful .


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

WOW, that's a lot of tools!







It looks expensive as well. I'll get back to it once I get some extra savings. Thank you so much!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

By the way, I displayed a white image and the burn is starting to get bad. It was showing some magenta on the sides. I wish there will still be tubes available for my 1272 in the next year or 2. Don't have any budget right now.


Anyways, I played with my camera's auto white balance mode. I chose Color Temperature and set the temp to 4800. I was able to produce the color my eyes were seeing on the screen. It's very close.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19502298
> 
> 
> Thats a horrible calibration.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



It's not possible at these lamp hours.


----------



## nashou66

get a new lamp.


Athanasios


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Now I know now the huge difference in image quality between digital and crt projector. I never had a digital projector that's why I don't know. I can see from SteveMo's latest picture each pixels. My crt doesn't or maybe, my 1272 is losing its sharpness due to tube burn and class of this projector(beginner model). That's a nice digital projector's output. So how many hours does lamp last on digital projectors? Do they last until 10,000 hours?


Here is the original file that I took few minutes ago. It is very huge, 7mb. 4752x3168.

http://www.neilcamara.com/avatar_fullsize.jpg


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/19506425
> 
> 
> Now I know now the huge difference in image quality between digital and crt projector. I never had a digital projector that's why I don't know. I can see from SteveMo's latest picture each pixels. My crt doesn't or maybe, my 1272 is losing its sharpness due to tube burn and class of this projector(beginner model). That's a nice digital projector's output. So how many hours does lamp last on digital projectors? Do they last until 10,000 hours?
> 
> 
> Here is the original file that I took few minutes ago. It is very huge, 7mb. 4752x3168.
> 
> http://www.neilcamara.com/avatar_fullsize.jpg



Those are not pixels it is moire caused by pixels in my camera, notice the direction the pixels run.


nashou66,


I have a brand new lamp closet, top shelf. A new lamp will harm contrast and black levels and it's not going to improve a previous calibration as the difference is quite minimal. It would also present even more a challenge in my non light controlled environment. There is no doubt by now my color wheel has collected some dust in it's new home....


----------



## SteveMo

Hyperbole


----------



## winduptoy

Steve;


Why is your contrast set so low? The screen image must be really dark. For your screenshots, camera exposure should be no more than 1-2 sec @ f:4-5.6 with ISO set at 80-100 (as low as you can get it) If your exposures are longer than this, you are cheating yourself out of a lot of viewing enjoyment. Use an effective test target like DVE HD Basics smpte resolution chart for brightness, contrast and sharpness (EE). Use 75% bars for color and you should get much better results. (Your charts show oversaturated colors and your screenshots are anything but.)


----------



## mp20748

A few quickies... a little dark (I forgot to increase the contrast from 50 for the shots), but I'll correct that later this week when I get back with more shots.

 


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----------



## nashou66

Steve, your overal calibration is way way way way off. look how under saturated your gamu is. and greyscale should be called brown scale.


something is wrong. put up a pick of the color bars.


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19507022
> 
> 
> Steve, your overal calibration is way way way way off. look how under saturated your gamu is. and greyscale should be called brown scale.
> 
> 
> something is wrong. put up a pick of the color bars.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I will but I have somewhere to be so I will when I get back. Meanwhile, here is another reading after it being on for more than nine hours, close to what your seeing in that last photo. The last measurement was after it being on for one and a half hours.


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/19506527
> 
> 
> Hyperbole



Steve, you really need to start over with your calibration. As much as we joke about digital your projector can give you a much better picture than what you have, will never be as good as CRT though







, All kidding aside, I would put everything at default or mid point and start again. start with grayscale, this is a must for a good picture. You have to have all the three colors close to 100% first and then tweak to lower the deltas.


If your contrast controls are set too high but your picture isn't, it is time to change the lamp. If your concern is black labels with the new lamp you need to set it to low or normal.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superleo* /forum/post/19507680
> 
> 
> Steve, you really need to start over with your calibration. As much as we joke about digital your projector can give you a much better picture than what you have, will never be as good as CRT though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , All kidding aside, I would put everything at default or mid point and start again. start with grayscale, this is a must for a good picture. You have to have all the three colors close to 100% first and then tweak to lower the deltas.
> 
> 
> If your contrast controls are set too high but your picture isn't, it is time to change the lamp. If your concern is black labels with the new lamp you need to set it to low or normal.



To put things more in perspective for you non digital owners, here is out of the box settings











The calibration


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/19507865
> 
> 
> To put things more in perspective for you non digital owners, here is out of the box settings



I do have a digital LCD projector... and your calibrated image sure "looks' better than you standard settings, however, based on your calibration data, you are still adjusting by eye, and/or your meter is not giving you correct reading, which is possible. I myself have a Eye1 that is not reliable compare to other meters.


Still, if you trust your meter, you have to calibrate to that, and if the meter is good, your image has to be better than what you have.


----------



## Dr. Spankenstein

Argh!


Steve,


I warned you over a year and a half ago about that camera and the pitfalls involved...


Now your starting your journey to become a THX qualified calibrator...

Get it together and put that new bulb in, use some of your new found knowledge and THEN get back to us. (ie: your not making a very good case for anyone to request the use your services).


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/19500683
> 
> 
> BenQ W5000 - Calman 3.6 (100% color AVS MP4) - ColorMunki
> 
> *screen - off white wall 9ft width*
> 
> hours - 3600
> 
> brightness 70
> 
> contrast 32
> 
> color 21
> 
> tint 0
> 
> iris 0
> 
> nd2 filter
> 
> [/img]



I notice too that you are projecting to a wall.

There are many different options in the DIY screen section that will improve your PQ.


Even if you just use one of the paint mixes and paint the projected area. Just that will help your image quite a bit.


----------



## nzryan

Hi,

So do you guys think that the 2.35 Gamma curve is better than the 2.2?

Thanks,

Ryan


----------



## SteveMo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dr. Spankenstein* 
Argh!


Steve,


I warned you over a year and a half ago about that camera and the pitfalls involved...


Now your starting your journey to become a THX qualified calibrator...

Get it together and put that new bulb in, use some of your new found knowledge and THEN get back to us. (ie: your not making a very good case for anyone to request the use your services).
It's too late for that Dr. Spankenstein. The threats for criminal action regarding my screenwritting since last year has forced me into early retirement.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

me again










I was curious as to how my zoom lens will perform in this kind of situation. In daylight, the quality is phenomenal. It's a Canon 70-200 F/4. All the other screenshots I posted earlier were taken with a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 lens. Using the zoom lens, I have to move back as far as 40+ feet away from the screen. I'm so happy that this lens still worked well. Even the horizontal seam I made on the 2 blackout cloth is seen. You'll see it at the nose level of the lion.


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19507022
> 
> 
> Steve, your overal calibration is way way way way off. look how under saturated your gamu is. and greyscale should be called brown scale.
> 
> 
> something is wrong. put up a pick of the color bars.
> 
> 
> Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo

*Some of these 2010 releases are very ominous*


----------



## mp20748

Oh, the power and dynamics of CRT..









 


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## SteveMo

Fictional revisionism + Hyperbole =



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19514145
> 
> 
> Boring.......


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

more trial and error ...


----------



## SteveMo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19517062
> 
> 
> What's up with that? I wasn't even referring to you.



The intentions were good.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMo* /forum/post/19517609
> 
> 
> The intentions were good.



Well then with that I leave you with this:


----------



## mp20748

Super Marquee Mods have been shipped and are now in the hands of a critical tester.. Stay tuned..










*My Super 02 VIM in my Marquee - FULL 1080P 60HZ*
 


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## mp20748

Spent a good part of yesterday wrapping up the G90 mods, and while doing so, came across another idea to also try on my setup..










Got another BLu Ray disk coming from Netflix. I hope it's going to be worth waiting for..


In the mean time:

*

The following shots are using a Panasonic Blu Ray (internal settings at "NORM" no sharpness) > Lumagen > Moome card slot fitted in my 9500LC with a Super version 02 VIM w/neck board mods onto an 8" wide screen. The resolution is Full 1080P /60hz
*
 


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## cencio

So Mike.

In your last pics the upper left side of the wear of the sailor looks like my "white problem": too white.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19540103
> 
> 
> So Mike.
> 
> In your last pics the upper left side of the wear of the sailor looks like my "white problem": too white.



Vinnie, this is where you need to look at the color space setting from Blu ray to

Projector.


Make sure they are all the same , I'd use 4:2:2 in the Oppo and then the same on the input for the Lumagen and then on the output from the lumagen.


Make sure you set both the input and output in the Lumagen the same for Color space and Video level. do not use the RGB unless one of your sources does not accept 442. I have to use RGB since my Tv-Ones do not accept 442 correctly.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19540103
> 
> 
> So Mike.
> 
> In your last pics the upper left side of the wear of the sailor looks like my "white problem": too white.



Without a picture to better understand what you're actually seeing, it's hard to say for sure.


What you mention in my shot as a reference could be clipping, which is highly possible with that version of the mods, because they are very dynamic. That's why it's so important to have both proper color space and exact 700mv PP voltage coming out of the Moome card.


If you somehow has cranked up the contrast pot on your Moome card, or received it that way, then that would be a big contributor to that problem. And if your color space (RGB, 422, 444, etc) is not set properly it could makes things worse, especially with a non standard PP voltage going into the input of the video chain.


----------



## smokeyturtle

I just posted 17 screenshots and got a letter from my internet provider yelling at me for using too much bandwidth haha


----------



## cencio

Thanks my friends.

I will be able to take a pics only tomorrow night. In this period I'm very confuse because at the green age of 48 years I and my wife are waiting for the born of a daughter (just in the next days).

Now I have set the input and the output of the Radiance. But I need to set right the contrast value into the Moome input card.

Thanks.


----------



## cencio

Posted in the right thread


----------



## nashou66

there a re a few greyscale patterns in the radiance. go to the greyscale ramp then press "4" it will cycle through other patterns. There is a pattern not sure where but it has four squares or rectangles with BTB and WTW bars top left and bottom right are Black I think and the opposite corners are white. lower white level of the radiance till you see the difference in the WTW bars. But first try the Marquee's contrast.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19544249
> 
> 
> As you can see the white headcloth and the white dresses of the childrens are "posterized".
> 
> You know that all the colour mngt controls ofm the Radiance are on the 0 position and the gamma is set to 0,95.
> 
> About the Moome input card the electronic gamma is on low level by the remote. I don't now how I can properly level the contrast and the gamma by moving the screw.
> 
> That's all.



How did you go from the shots you posted some pages back to the shots you're now posting this time attempting to show the problem?


And why did you start a separate thread on this here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291992 


And then start posting in the screenshot thread?


If your shots were fine based on what you've posted previously, you should to your original settings and start from there to set things up.


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19544555
> 
> 
> How did you go from the shots you posted some pages back to the shots you're now posting this time attempting to show the problem?
> 
> 
> And why did you start a separate thread on this here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291992
> 
> 
> And then start posting in the screenshot thread?
> 
> 
> If your shots were fine based on what you've posted previously, you should to your original settings and start from there to set things up.



Oh sorry Mike.

I have forgotten this. It happens that I have seen your King Kong shots and I have reply to those pics. And then I have post the other message. It is only a mistake. Don'y worry.

Apologyze me.


----------



## atlemusic

1080 x 816p / 72hz straight into a sony G70!! The G90 can wait


----------



## overclkr

Awesome! The G70 is no joke!


----------



## atlemusic

v1rtu0s1ty whats up with that line in your pix? i also have a bit of that on all tubes


----------



## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

A few quickies taking while looking at a change in the Panasonic Blu Ray.


A little dark, and something I'll look at when the next Blu ray arrives.


Full 1080 /60hz
 


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## mp20748

Hey Craig.. I've made the same changes also to my Marquee that I told you about. You'll get to see it tomorrow while here, but you may see the difference from the previous shots in this thread compared to these here.


They're all quickies using the same settings...



Full 1080P /60hz
 


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## mp20748

High Performance HD... yes!

 


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## atlemusic

Mike >> the latest where really nice!!


What do you like most, 60hz whit more sharpen or 72hz with the more laid back brightness?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/19564881
> 
> 
> Mike >> the latest where really nice!!
> 
> 
> What do you like most, 60hz whit more sharpen or 72hz with the more laid back brightness?



Yep, one of the things about really good 1080P 72hz is that extra brightness. Not sure why that happens with only a change in vertical rate, but it's surely there.


The difference for me between the two is colors and a more film like image. For some reason, the higher the rate the better the colors. 72hz is also where you get your pastel colors to jump out at you.


60hz I'm beginning to feel more comfortable with, but it's not so much the sharpness difference that is so important, because that 60hz sharpness on some DVD's or sources can also have a somewhat digital look.


The thing I'm really liking about 60hz is the punch and dynamics of the image.


72hz has some white clipping issues I've yet to figure out..


So on my setup, I looked at chosen which one to stay with. And it looks like 60hz is going to be the one for me..










On the last sharper shots taking here we're playing with a different filter set for the Sony Moome card. One we looked at for the Sony G90 mods only. I'm trying them on my Marquee card. Yes, the sharpness is there, but there's a little more going on here than just sharpness increase.


----------



## mp20748

A few quickies at FULL 1080P 60hz.


I promise that these last changes I've made today will be my last..










 


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## youthman

Here is my contribution


----------



## mp20748

A few more taking under a little better contrast setting. All taking after a few minutes warm up.


The changes I alluded to were done to the Moome card. They were changes that came about in finishing up the Sony G90 mods that we recently completed. In looking closer at the G90 mods we found that we needed a more precise filter for the DAC. In going after that we spent a many hour trying different filters and combination of filters, because the present ones were not allowing the signal to properly get through the video chain. So we had to make that happen. And in doing so, it allowed us to avoid adding harsh peaking to the circuits.


Yesterday while Craig was here we tested these changes. And also made one other fix for the G90 card that's only for a G90.


So now, I've implemented those same changes to my Marquee Moome card. And in doing so, I was able to see a change, and in doing so I left all the original settings as they were for the previous filters.


With me now showing shots without the projector being calibrated or colr balanced to the new filter changes. The shots are un-touched, with no sharpness added in the Blu Ray player.


These are still Full 1080P /60hz...

 


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## mp20748

Played around with the camera settings tonight, and may have found the best settings. At least I'm not getting the hot spotting I usually get when taking some of the shots here.



Still Full 1080P - Panasonic Blu Ray directly into my Super Marquee 9500LC
 


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## mp20748

I had listed in the previous post that I'm now back to my Blu Ray player into the Marquee. So I'm not back to Full 1080P 60hz.


Going from 72hz to 60 hz I forgot to readjust the focus for 60hz. Did that this morning and took a few more shots now with things focused at 60hz, to include the new camera setting.


The camera setting is now "AUTO" not sure why it's doing so well in auto, I could never get any of the cameras to work in auto before this one. Auto mode is definitely the best I've gotten so far.



 


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## Par

Mike...those last few shots look great!!


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## mp20748

A few from 300


All shot with the camera still in "AUTO"

 


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## Kevin 3000

*A DIGITAL comparison is overdue so here you are....Nothing added just Plug and Play 2800 hours use so far - Cheap as Chips.







*


JVC HD-350 (RS10)










CRT 9500LC Modded










JVC HD-350 (RS10)










CRT 9500LC Modded










JVC HD-350 (RS10)










CRT 9500LC Modded


----------



## Alan Gouger

Nice comparison thanks for sharing. I actually prefer the CRT. The digital image looks sharper then real life to my eyes. Both are very close though, closer then I would have expected.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/19594915
> 
> A DIGITAL comparison is overdue so here you are....*Nothing added just Plug and Play* 2800 hours use so far - Cheap as Chips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/b][/color]



now now Mr Mimic. How is it that everyone of your comparison shots is ALWAYS the exact same color (saturation and hue) as the shot you're comparing it to... so I say BS..


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

These following shots are quick and dirty, with no warm-up, setup or calibration after going back to a modified 03 VIM.


This was truly a plug and play quickie. I'll dial things in later in the week.


All are low light shots..


Full 1080P /60hz
 


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## overclkr

Nice!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19607303
> 
> 
> Nice!



Dude, you got to get back out here with your shots. I know you're have to do those tubes and stuff first, but it's just not the same with you not posting.


Anyway, I'll try and keep the thraed hot until your return. And I'll even try and post some G90 shots as well... hopefully..


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## mp20748

A few more quickies... I'll get that 03 VIM dialed in this weekend.


And then we'll be bak..









 


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19613000
> 
> 
> Dude, you got to get back out here with your shots. I know you're have to do those tubes and stuff first, but it's just not the same with you not posting.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll try and keep the thraed hot until your return. And I'll even try and post some G90 shots as well... hopefully..



I'll be back before you know it










I was planning on doing some this week but so far family and work have prevented it










Cliffy


----------



## cencio

OPPO BD 83SE - LUMAGEN RADIANCE 1920X1080 71,93 Hz - MOOME FULL HD V3 - MARQUEE 9500 LC ULTRA - MP SUPER 02 VIM AND MP MODDED NECK BOARDS. I hope you like it.


----------



## nashou66

Not bad Vincent! but it looks like your pushing Green a bit and either Brightness or Contrast is a bit too high. I bet its Brightness because Leelou's white shirt doesn't look clipped if it was contrast, all the rib paterns are showing. Also in the diving scene its too washed out, there should be more dark colors and blacks.


But otherwise set up looks great.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

I know those pics are dinky but that looks like one sharp Marquee. I have seen the light on the Marquee, but I must confess my love for the G90.


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19617051
> 
> 
> Not bad Vincent! but it looks like your pushing Green a bit and either Brightness or Contrast is a bit too high. I bet its Brightness because Leelou's white shirt doesn't look clipped if it was contrast, all the rib paterns are showing. Also in the diving scene its too washed out, there should be more dark colors and blacks.
> 
> 
> But otherwise set up looks great.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I have token the pics with a nikon COOLPIX 7.1. I see the vertical lines on the Leelou's white shirt. And then the real colours of the shots are different. This happens because the setting of the camera are : white balance is FLASH, exposure is 0,0, colours is NORMAL. I have tried many times before but these are the best. I will try tonight with the NIKON D50......


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19616879
> 
> 
> OPPO BD 83SE - LUMAGEN RADIANCE 1920X1080 71,93 Hz - MOOME FULL HD V3 - MARQUEE 9500 LC ULTRA - MP SUPER 02 VIM AND MP MODDED NECK BOARDS. *I hope you like it*.



Me, YES, I like it....no I actually love those shots..










There may be an issue with the camera, but without question, those shots really show sharpness and performance at FULL 1080P 72HZ..


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies, bought to you directly from the Mod Factory..










 


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## ElTopo

Are there any "Inception" screenshots out there ?


ElTopo


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo* /forum/post/19627483
> 
> 
> Are there any "Inception" screenshots out there ?
> 
> 
> ElTopo



I just checked Netflix... it won't be released until the 01/04/2011


It's now on my list, so we'll going to make that happen!


----------



## mp20748

Ok, we bak with a few more..










These are all still from my Super Marquee doing a simple 1920x1080P 60hz from my Panasonic Blu Ray. I want to be clear here that these shots are from my Marquee. Later this coming weekend, I'm hoping to have the BEAST (Super Modified G90) in my theater and setup to my screen.


So, If I'm successful in getting the Beast in the theater, these would be the last Marquee shots for awhile. We're going to put the Beast on trial..










And trust me on this, you're going to be in for a real treat..











 


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## mp20748

A few more, but these were done in complete darkness.


These will likely be my last shots from my Marquee for a awhile. I have the G90 to be moved into my theater. Once we make that happen followed with a few hours of setup, we'll start posting some shots that's be coming from the G90.


The G90 I'm moving to my theater, I call it the Beast.


Dang, I've almost made a hobby out doing screenshots. Well maybe not fully, but I do plan to step things up a bit more in the new year..









 


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## overclkr

Looking really good Mike!


----------



## fraisa

Nice Screen shots


----------



## mp20748

The Beast has been moved to the theater..










It is posed and resting right below my 9500LC. It is anticipating setup as it stirs at my screen anxiously awaiting the opportunity to project an aggressive image on my screen.


I will be connecting the exact same source material I have for my 9500LC. Panasonic Blu Ray > Moome card inserted into my external card slot holder > connected directly to the RGBHV connectors on the G90.


I will not be spending all day on a setup. I will be doing a demo setup, which requires only doing the basics.


That all means I'll be posting shots later today or night, that will all be from The Beast itself.


Two highly modified high end CRT projectors situated not more than 3 feet from each other. I only hope egos are in order and they're able to get along with each other..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19663116
> 
> 
> The Beast has been moved to the theater..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is posed and resting right below my 9500LC. It is anticipating setup as it stirs at my screen anxiously awaiting the opportunity to project an aggressive image on my screen.
> 
> 
> I will be connecting the exact same source material I have for my 9500LC. Panasonic Blu Ray > Moome card inserted into my external card slot holder > connected directly to the RGBHV connectors on the G90.
> 
> 
> I will not be spending all day on a setup. I will be doing a demo setup, which requires only doing the basics.
> 
> 
> That all means I'll be posting shots later today or night, that will all be from The Beast itself.
> 
> 
> Two highly modified high end CRT projectors situated not more than 3 feet from each other. I only hope egos are in order and they're able to get along with each other..



RED Pill vs. BLUE Pill.


----------



## mp20748

Ok boys and girls.


From complete scatch with the Beast placed a tech cart with the wells locked...


I spent about an hour and 15 minutes doing a setup on a projector I've only played with before, and have never really went into the menus with any intent to align for an image.


So with a little over an hour with this projector. With the colors not even adjusted by eye. And as you'll see in the shots, the convergence is all over he place. The focus was only basically adjusted in global range, with a one blob each color basic stig.


In other words, the projector is far from being setup.


Now, I will spend more time later dialing things in better, but since it's on a cart, I'll not be doing anything really serious.


I'll let you judge for yourselves. With me bearing witness to three things that were exceptional, even without a real or better setup.


The low end is so good it's scary. Noise in the image, what noise??


Punch, brightness... whoa!!!


So here we go, the BEAST...










 


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## Per Johnny

Mike, I really have to give it to you straight. The Beast stinks!!! Pack it up and send it to me.










I know, dont judge be screenshots. Anyway they look scary good.


----------



## RearProjection1292




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19666615
> 
> 
> Ok boys and girls.
> 
> 
> From complete scatch with the Beast placed a tech cart with the wells locked...
> 
> 
> I spent about an hour and 15 minutes doing a setup on a projector I've only played with before, and have never really went into the menus with any intent to align for an image.
> 
> 
> So with a little over an hour with this projector. With the colors not even adjusted by eye. And as you'll see in the shots, the convergence is all over he place. The focus was only basically adjusted in global range, with a one blob each color basic stig.
> 
> 
> In other words, the projector is far from being setup.
> 
> 
> Now, I will spend more time later dialing things in better, but since it's on a cart, I'll not be doing anything really serious.
> 
> 
> I'll let you judge for yourselves. With me bearing witness to three things that were exceptional, even without a real or better setup.
> 
> 
> The low end is so good it's scary. Noise in the image, what noise??
> 
> 
> Punch, brightness... whoa!!!
> 
> 
> So here we go, the BEAST...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Hey Mike, Craig installed the Lumagen xs+ and calibrated my G90 with the Moome card last summer and I thought the picture could not get any better but man the photos you just posted of the uncalibrated G90 using your mods are fantastic.


Your 9500 mods look great but the uncalibrated G90 shots you posted are unbelievable. The "Greatness" of your mod work reminds me of the great Inventors of this country.My G90 and Dunes Player awaits your mods.


For the record, I am using a Vutec Silver Star screen with the G90 and with your mods I would have to dial the brightness down quite a bit because the screen has a gain of 6.

After you suggested Craig to me, he stop by and dialed in the new Lumagen xs+ @72hgz and every time we invite people over they are amazed at the G90 picture quality.

I picked up a Epson Pro 1080p digital as part of a package deal with some other stuff and mounted it next to the G90 and the first words out of my out of my wife mouth was" I like G90 video better"!!


So the Epson Pro 1080p digital will go on ebay this weekend.


Happy Holidays to you and your family!

Felix


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Per Johnny* /forum/post/19666994
> 
> 
> Anyway the look scary good.



Hey PJ, check these following shots out..










Once more let me go over where I'm at so far in the setup... I have not touched anything other than a quick eye ball color balance to compensate for a change that I had to make.


So they are still Full 1080P 60hz from my Blu Ray directly into the BEAST.


My camera may not even capture what I'm seeing on the screen... and what's making things scary is that this G90 is NOT setup..

 


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## overclkr

Was a matta witch you Mike? Get that BEAST converged!































That RED Pill looks freaking AWESOME.










Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19670754
> 
> 
> Was a matta witch you Mike? Get that BEAST converged!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That RED Pill looks freaking AWESOME.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yo Cliff, this G90 has me at a lost for words to describe it.


I really really hate to publicly say this, and I'm being 100% truthful about this, even where it is in it's setup I can tell The Beast gets the crown!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19671134
> 
> 
> Yo Cliff, this G90 has me at a lost for words to describe it.
> 
> 
> I really really hate to publicly say this, and I'm being 100% truthful about this, even where it is in it's setup I can tell The Beast gets the crown!



Dont be sad big dog.










Get that bad boy set up and show me some Fifth Element


----------



## mp20748

I took another very quick look at dialing the convergence in better. Of all the things that's neat on the G90, convergence is not one of them.


I'll get back to this later, because i noticed that even the basic focus still has a ways to go. I'll make that better later, and will also look at that awkward convergence systems as well.


A few more quick and dirty shots.... can't find my fifth element. It may be in the Sony I gave my daughter some times back.


I'll also do a color balance as well.

 


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## wallace1234

Hey, I want one of those G90 thingys................










wallace


----------



## mp20748

I know I mentioned getting back to further dialing in the beast later today, but that will have to wait until another day..










I also have to play with the camera, because I'm having a problem with it capturing shots from the G90. I'm sure I'll need to find the best exposure setting. Things are a little different with the G90.


Other than some of the other virtues I've already mentioned about this G90, there are two that I'd like to also mention. One being the gamma circuit feature that's not found any any of the other CRT projectors that i know of, with the other being, the intensity of the image.


Both are huge benefits this projector has. The gamma circuit may play some role in the improved punch that it has. While at the same time, the gamma feature almost makes an external gamma device almost not necessary. That's after the improved low end or fixed low end I'm now getting.


Watching the gamma curve or effect on a scope was interesting. And the way it ramps up without clipping the signal is also neat. It not only ramps the low end, it effects an almost entire IRE window.


Really neat..


----------



## Mr Bob

Yet a Moome gamma bump card is still highly prized by Cliff for the G90, right?


b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/19675566
> 
> 
> Yet a Moome gamma bump card is still highly prized by Cliff for the G90, right?
> 
> 
> b



Here is what I'm doing right now. I picked up the latest external box for my stack and will be replacing my original NEC ISS HDMI card as well as the NEC itself. Big changes coming soon.


----------



## overclkr

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mp20748* 
I know I mentioned getting back to further dialing in the beast later today, but that will have to wait until another day..










I also have to play with the camera, because I'm having a problem with it capturing shots from the G90. I'm sure I'll need to find the best exposure setting. Things are a little different with the G90.


Other than some of the other virtues I've already mentioned about this G90, there are two that I'd like to also mention. One being the gamma circuit feature that's not found any any of the other CRT projectors that i know of, with the other being, the intensity of the image.


Both are huge benefits this projector has. The gamma circuit may play some role in the improved punch that it has. While at the same time, the gamma feature almost makes an external gamma device almost not necessary. That's after the improved low end or fixed low end I'm now getting.


Watching the gamma curve or effect on a scope was interesting. And the way it ramps up without clipping the signal is also neat. It not only ramps the low end, it effects an almost entire IRE window.


Really neat..








Hey big dog, I forgot to show these to you guys. I took these at William's place with my Nikon D5000. I'm still a beginner with this camera so not perfect.










William's Super Duper 12ft Wide Behemoth MP Modified Dual 9500LC Ultra @72hz BLEND:


----------



## mp20748

A few more from the BEAST...


The following shots are true quick and dirty. They are using the same previous setup, with the colors being worse (not calibrated) than before.


With the wife out visiting the grand kids, I thought I'd fire up the Beast one more time and take a look at the last changes I made.


The camera is now set back to the aperture setting. Still 1080P 60hz


 


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## mp20748

A few more from the Beast..


They're un-touched, straight from the camera. The image can be so intense at times my camera has a problem capturing the shots.



 


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## cencio

*After some more adjustments. Always OPPO BD 83 SE - RADIANCE XS 3D -1920 x 1080 72Hz - MOOME V3 FULL HD MP CARD - MARQUEE 95OO LC ULTRA WITH MP MODDED SUPER 02 VIM AND MP MODDED NECK BOARDS.

I HOPE THIS TIME YOU LIKE IT*


----------



## cencio

*...SOME MORE...*


----------



## overclkr

Hi


----------



## nashou66

My God Cliff, and you want to re tube!! Damn!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## cencio

Quote:

Originally Posted by *overclkr* 
Hi








Very, very good shots. Your shots are always the best shots.

My chain is not a blend but it has only one Marquee


----------



## cencio

*...and...some shots more...*

I have copied some Cliff idea.












































































































*...and then...*


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19737371
> 
> 
> My God Cliff, and you want to re tube!! Damn!!!!!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Yes my NY Brother its time










These tubes are tired and the new video chain needs to be brought to justice!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/19738179
> 
> 
> Very, very good shots. Your shots are always the best shots.
> 
> My chain is not a blend but it has only one Marquee



Thanks so much! My setup is not a blend but a stack.










Great shots BTW!


----------



## cencio

*...more and more...*





































































































*Have you Happy Good Year my friends.

Thanks you for the more and more hours of entertainment.*


----------



## overclkr

Some more shots for your viewing pleasure










I've now upgraded the video chain with the latest Moome and as well Mike Parker has sent me what I consider to be an awesome upgrade to the system as well. It's a modified Marquee switcher to drive the stack that has some nasty awesome bandwidth!


I noticed an IMMEDIATE improvement in the picture after replacing my NEC switcher with Mike's solution!


I cant wait to get my G90's MP'D!!!!!!!!!


----------



## overclkr

























































Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

Cliff you Phucking Showoff!!!!










Vincent nice color detail, looks like you figured out the lumagen and Calman! Nice!!!


Athanasios


----------



## MississippiMan

.........I'm about to go Mississippi on ya Cliff.










Watch this space.


----------



## superleo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MississippiMan* /forum/post/19755670
> 
> 
> .........I'm about to go Mississippi on ya Cliff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch this space.



Are you building a Fusion 10gain screen with super deep black capabilities?









That would be the only way to be comparable to the CRT die-hards!


----------



## mp20748

I'll be back sometime this month with more shots. With everything or almost all of my commercial customers going Digital me having to really jump on the 3D learning curve, work has gotten very hectic. I'm learing a lot about 3D though..










I even have a bunch of very high end 3D projectors and the glasses they use to play with. I wish I could take shots of a 3D image from one of them and post it here, but that's not something I can make happen because the glasses would be needed.


Once I get a lot of things out of the way or more manageable I'll be getting back to this.




I've been waiting on Netfix to get "Inception," but first I wanted to post some shots from "Night and Day"


----------



## mp20748

A few quickies from my Super 9500LC Ultra...


I'm letting the G90 rest up for awhile..

















 


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## mp20748

A few more. This time I've changed the camera setting.



 


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## overclkr

Well Hi again










How is everyone this evening?










































































Time to go and dig up some more stuff to take screenshots of.


----------



## nashou66

Damn !!!!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## atlemusic

ok some more from the G70


----------



## overclkr

Nice!


----------



## stanley2468

Nice


----------



## mp20748

Time to fire up the BEAST - Tonight!


----------



## mp20748

Dang, the colors are really whacked..










Looks like the BEAST is not feeling so good... I'll try again tomorrow.



 


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## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/19787092




Ann Margaret, hells yeah!


----------



## nashou66

Check the color space Mike, thats what it looks like to me.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/19836611
> 
> 
> Check the color space Mike, thats what it looks like to me.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Yep.. that's what it was. That plus I've been having a problem with my Moome card lately. It keeps flickering on and off. It seemed to have been stable after it warmed up, but it has a problem for sure.


It seems to do well after it warms up, but still I'm not that comfortable with it working that way.


I took a few more quickies after it warmed up.


Once more from the BEAST...

 


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## mp20748

Now back to the Marquee.


Couldn't let the BEAST out do my 9500LC..










A few Quick and Dirty shots from my Marquee. 100% UN-touched Full 1080P.

 


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## mp20748

A few more Quick and Dirties from my 9500LC.


I'll calibrate later and post more...

 


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## mp20748

A few more shots, with these recent shots taking with an 02 VIM in my Marquee.


We're stepping things up a bit..









 


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## mp20748

A few more...

 


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## shiznit

I recently had a full calibration done on my projector, I know this has been said before, but I cannot believe the difference it made.









I only have a few shots for now.


----------



## mp20748

More CRT..









 


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## shiznit

opps, wrong section, sorry!


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## overclkr

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mp20748* 
A few more...


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## overclkr

Quote:

Originally Posted by *shiznit* 
I recently had a full calibration done on my projector, I know this has been said before, but I cannot believe the difference it made.









I only have a few shots for now.
Those are some most excellent screenshots!


----------



## atlemusic

Mike!! really detailed! so nice!










Is your apocalyptico in 1080p? On the back of mine it says 1080i


----------



## overclkr

Some shots from my Nikon D5000. I've got a long way to go with this camera. The Kodak is much easier.


----------



## VPH-G90

Sony G90 1920x817p72


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## VPH-G90




----------



## nashou66

Always love your shots G90!!!!


Athanasios


----------



## VPH-G90

thanks nashou


----------



## VPH-G90




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## VPH-G90




----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/19879752



That is an awesome shot. VPH you have some camera skillz










Not to mention the projector!


----------



## VPH-G90

Thanks

this is my camera (canon a610 5 mega pixel)


----------



## VPH-G90




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## VPH-G90




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## VPH-G90




----------



## Fredrik

So what do you guys use to take the photos and do you pause the film or do you take multiple photos ?


----------



## mp20748

I had lost my 5th Element Blu Ray, ordered another and fired up the new one today. It appears to be different in some ways.


Anyway, everything is still the same with my Marquee and Blu Ray settings, with only the disk being different. The shots are also and as usual, un-touched directly from the camera.


Hey William, what you think?


 


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## nashou66

You know Mike, when the 5th E came out it was not done properly and months later they had a exchange program. the new disc was mastered from the original masters and done properly. The old version was pretty bad, the Sd DVD was just as good some say.


Maybe you had the old one before?


Athanasios


----------



## SteveMo

It looks like I could get a G70 sometime in June, but I would have to hold off on my blu-ray purchases awhile. It will be sooner if I'm employee of the month, which it looks like I might be.


Digital


----------



## mp20748

It's been some months since I've misplaced my previous version of The 5th Element. And since having this version months later, it's hard to tell if it's it was the first Blu Ray release. I did a search following up on what Nash posted and found that there was a second version, and I thought I had that version..










Not 100% sure, but this present version appears to be different..


Anyway, I did confirm that I presently have the later version, because it has the "True HD" on the back cover.

*Full 1080P /60hz*
 


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## lewis

You're killing us Mike. We need those G90 mods STAT


----------



## VPH-G90

Very good mike i Want Your work on my G90.


----------



## overclkr

Me too!


----------



## Fredrik

Not sure what the criteria is for this thread but I thought it would be funny to show some screenshots from a lower tier CRT PJ and environment










These screenshots are the first I've tried to take, whatsoever, live image is better than what you see in these photos.

For the sake of consistancy I used auto-focus and auto-ISO on a Canon D30 on a tripod.

The highlights (e.g. on forheads) are exagerated by the camera, so they are more subtle and more detailed than what you see, so there is no "white crush" live.

Not an ideal environment either, ceiling is white.


PJ: BD808 (non S), Roscoe Red filter, HD Fury1 connected to Port3.

Screen: DIY, can't remember the name of the plastic sheet that was popular a while ago









Calibrated with a Spyder2 by myself (I told you low tier







)


Here goes, I tried to take some familiar scenes.

Ohh, almost forgot, these are the BD's but the output is 720p from the HTPC.


----------



## nashou66

Looks great to me Fredrick!!!


What size is the screen?


Athanasios


----------



## Fredrik

Thanks Athanasios, it's a 92" screen (diagonal).

As I've collected a bit more BD's lately I'll give another shot at 1080i soon. Somewhat concerned about flickering though as the bandwidth is a bit limited at 75MHz.


----------



## mp20748

I've not forgot about the G90 mods at all. They're pretty much done on my end. I've ceased doing anything else to the G90, because I too think it's time to move them forward. So they should be happening soon..











On my very latest Marquee work (not available yet), I've been playing around with using an IC to filter noise in the video chain. It's kind of complicated to explain, but what he have been doing is using the highest bandwidth chips to get the sharpest image. And in doing that, we also open up the video chain to higher frequency noise that is not so easily seen in the final image. That noise causes various distortions in the image, and these distortions not only smear that same sharpness, it also clouds the backgrounds. This may sound a little complicated, but it's something I've been looking into for the past few years, with finally finding a way to achieve a perfect goal of being able to pass the perfect video bandwidth windows through the video chain, and to do it without also allowing various noises either amplified from the source or introduced and magnified from the video chain itself.


The end results.. well, I had William over a few week ago and I was showing him a scene in King Kong that I've taking a many shot of, and he's also seen a many times on his setup. On my screen, we were able to see a lake or pond of water, that was not visible before. That plus an entirely sharper and cleaner image... Well, I've only been looking into this for the past eight years..










Anyway, I'm at an entirely different performance lever with the mods. And to fully realize this, you would need to see it for yourself on my screen. It's an entirely different class of sharpness for a CRT projector..












*Full 1080P /60hz from my Panasonic Blu Ray into my 9500 LC Ultra - Super 02 VIM*
 


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## wkosmann

So Mike, is the new version of your 02 VIM ready for prime time, or are you still playing with it?


Your most recent posts look better than any before.


Maybe I should bring my spare 03 VIM over so you can mod it, then we can compare the new mod directly to the old mod in the blend?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/19927461
> 
> 
> So Mike, is the new version of your 02 VIM ready for prime time, or are you still playing with it?



I believe it's ready, I'd like to still play with it a little longer.


No doubt, it's one of the biggest of my improvements so far. And to be able to get that level of performance from an 02 VIM is the real thriller here. It's really a very unique combination of changes, with the very last one making the biggest difference.


I also have a new signal generator to add to the other toys I use for this stuff.


Oh, and of course we'll hook you up with these latest changes when I'm done. We'll do an A/B comparison using your dual Marquees. This should be a killer comparison, especially on an 03 VIM.


----------



## overclkr

Mike those shots are some of your best yet!


----------



## mp20748

A few more that's a little peaked. I had to change out a couple of parts that came in today, and that changed things a little on the gain of the signal. I'll be evaluating those changes over the next few days.



 


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## mp20748

Wow.. the view count on this thread has been very high the past few days..










I'm waiting on "Inception" to get here on Friday. Hopefully, it'll have some eye candy scenes that would be worth posting.


At present I have my camera setting to the right of the G90 that's on a cart on the floor right under my Marquee that I'm using for these shots. But will later try and place it behind or in front of the G90 from then on. I'll also see what I can do to capture what the shots look like on my screen. Maybe show the screen and where it sits to the left and right walls - Just a thought.


Oh, and it would be nice to get some of the digital guys to start back posting their shots. I see they're back at it over on the pixel forum, just hope they have a little love to also share some of their shots over here as well..


----------



## mp20748

A few more with the usual ambient light in the room during day light.


These are a few shots taking during testing. They are from my Marquee, but keep your eyes open this weekend for the G90 shots. Or should I have said for shots from the beast.. another change is coming..










 
 


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## mp20748

Ok, now for the two different shots I'd mentioned previously. One behind the G90 and the other directly in front of it. The first shot (directly behind) also shows a ladder.

*Full 1080P*
 


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## seriousjack85

Damit Good stuff


----------



## mp20748

I fired up "Inception" earlier today, and was not that pleased with it for screen shots.


But I did like one of the preview movies. And that's where the following shots came from:

*Full 1080P 60hz*
 


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## v1rtu0s1ty

I love the eyes! Unbelievable quality!


----------



## teefery

Hi all Im new to this forum, just want to greet every pro here with some untouched shots from my baby.


feel free to comment~


----------



## overclkr

These shots are just getting better and better lately! Long live CRT!


----------



## JamesAB

Welcome to the forums *teefery*. Nice shots. What does your setup consist of?


----------



## mp20748

*Full 1080P /60hz from my Panasonic Blu Ray into my Marquee (CRT) UN-touched straight from the camera.
*


 


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## mp20748

Dang.. I was supposed to have posted shots from the G90 this past weekend. That was my intent, but in the process of finding a more precise filter for my Moome card that would be better for the G90. I ended up tweaking a lot further on the signal chain, especially now with the new pattern generator on board.


So, not only was I able to bring things to another level with my Marquee, just wait to see what I'll also be doing to the G90... It's been a wonderful past few days in the Mod Factory..









*Still FULL 1080P - UN-Touched..








*

 
 


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

  


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## WTS

I"d say your whites look blown out there Mike.


----------



## ten209

Would be cool to have a chassis mod war.


----------



## ElTopo

Voila a colored c-elements modded Barco 909 ;-)


ElTopo


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WTS* /forum/post/19979752
> 
> 
> I"d say your whites look blown out there Mike.



Yeah, but that;s a common problem with that KONG Blu Ray. It's not a great movie to capture for screenshots. And the camera is not smart enough to make the problem go away. I still like taking the shots, because there's a little more going on in those scenes.


----------



## mp20748

A few more. Straight from the camera...


*Blu Ray 1080P /60hz directly into my Marquee (Moome / 02 VIM)*
 


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## SteveMo




mp20748 said:


> A few more. Straight from the camera...
> 
> 
> *Blu Ray 1080P /60hz directly into my Marquee (Moome / 02 VIM)*
> 
> 
> I'm liking the new G90 shots Mike.
> 
> *Straight from the source / untouched / 60Hz*


----------



## lewis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/19981902
> 
> 
> A few more. Straight from the camera...
> 
> 
> *Blu Ray 1080P /60hz directly into my Marquee (Moome / 02 VIM)*
> 
> 
> 
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Funny I was doing some critical viewing of 5th Element on my G90 last night, mainly for the audio as I just installed a Meridian DSP system. The pics you posted blow my setup away. I really like the rendition of the metallic 'wrist' on the robotic arm.


----------



## mp20748

Quote:

Originally Posted by *lewis* 
Funny I was doing some critical viewing of 5th Element on my G90 last night, mainly for the audio as I just installed a Meridian DSP system. The pics you posted blow my setup away. I really like the rendition of the metallic 'wrist' on the robotic arm.
And it's a real site to see on the actual screen itself. I've been really busy lately, and after making a few and further changes, the color balance went off, and it took me awhile to do the color balance.


This morning I got around to doing the color balance before another busy day hit me.


The following two shots are after the color balance, but with a bit too much light in the room.

 


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## mp20748

Boys and girls... the BEAST!


Yep, these following shots were taking from the G90. They are quick and dirties for sure. Taking during a BA board test using a board that I just finished modifying to send out.


Full 1080P 60hz
 


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## mp20748

Someone gave me an earlier version Moome card with the component and HDMI inputs. Got back from a service call and took a stab at tweaking it. Not easy, but it's a lot better for sure on the screen.


Full 1080P into my Marquee...


 


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## cencio

What it happens to this thread???


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/20231597
> 
> 
> What it happens to this thread???



I'll be bak..










Yeah, had to get a few things out the way, but for sure I'll be back at posting again next month.


----------



## overclkr

Yeah I gotta get some shots posted as well.


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Wife got this movie today for $14 at Target.


ISO100, f/4, 1 sec, Canon FD 50mm lens, taken from 45ft away


----------



## mp20748

I'm BAK..










I took a few very quick-and-dirty shots projected from the Modified G90.


The G90 is still not properly setup, converged of anything. I simply put a finished modified board in it and took a few shots, and I took the shots with a lot of ambient light in the room.


Full 1920x1080P from my Panasonic Blu ray > Moome > The BEAST.
 


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## techman707

.

.

.
G90 - Now that's a projector -







- LOL
Those are some of the best pictures I've seen out of anything.
It's too bad Sony hasn't made anything as good since they made the G90.








.

.

.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/20336126
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> G90 - Now that's a projector -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - LOL
> Those are some of the best pictures I've seen out of anything.
> It's too bad Sony hasn't made anything as good since they made the G90.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .



LOL!


I will have to admit Bruce that my 60GB launch PS3 has also been one of the better pieces of equipment I've owned as well










That bad boy has kept up completely with the BD standard and not only that does 3D as well. Not to mention its 5 years old and still going!


Cliffy


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20337908
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> I will have to admit Bruce that my 60GB launch PS3 has also been one of the better pieces of equipment I've owned as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That bad boy has kept up completely with the BD standard and not only that does 3D as well. Not to mention its 5 years old and still going!
> 
> 
> Cliffy




I have an old PS3 80GB that when I recently updated the firmware they not only added 3D, but they added Netflix as well.







I wound up getting a discounted Sony 3D TV as a replacement for the worthless RP 60A2020 SXRD I bought a few years ago. As for Sony's 3D TV's (and 3D in general) they can keep it. They certainly don't make things like the G90....or even the old Trinitron TV's anymore.







If I hadn't gotten stuck with the Sony 3D TV I would have gotten a Panasonic 3D plasma TV, which is a much better 2D & 3D TV.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/20340551
> 
> 
> I have an old PS3 80GB that when I recently updated the firmware they not only added 3D, but they added Netflix as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wound up getting a discounted Sony 3D TV as a replacement for the worthless RP 60A2020 SXRD I bought a few years ago. As for Sony's 3D TV's (and 3D in general) they can keep it. They certainly don't make things like the G90....or even the old Trinitron TV's anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I hadn't gotten stuck with the Sony 3D TV I would have gotten a Panasonic 3D plasma TV, which is a much better 2D & 3D TV.



Yep Plasma is NO JOKE. I've always been a fan.










I'm really digging 3D so far actually. I hope they increase on the content choice. Craig Rounds has done an outstanding job working with Lumagen to get it perfected for CRT. Only a couple more months and I'll be putting in brand spanking new tubes and have all my new video chain all set up. Night and day difference over what I had before.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/20335920
> 
> 
> I'm BAK..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took a few very quick-and-dirty shots projected from the Modified G90.
> 
> 
> The G90 is still not properly setup, converged of anything. I simply put a finished modified board in it and took a few shots, and I took the shots with a lot of ambient light in the room.
> 
> 
> Full 1920x1080P from my Panasonic Blu ray > Moome > The BEAST.



More shots please


----------



## Mr Bob

Forgive this being off topic as far as this thread being primarily a CRT screenshot thread, but humor me...


I just attended Panasonic's traveling road show while it was touring thru SF and learned a few things, not necessarily about CRT. But we can all use a little knowledge of other camps now and then...


The Panny plasmas now use 600 Hz refresh rate. Forget about struggling with strobing on 120, or chasing it away with 240 - it's 600 now! And their 3D can be adjusted to make the image be more in the foreground or the background. It's done by separating the images or bringing them closer together, separating by steps in one direction or the other, the directions and distances are adjustable in User menu.


Their 3D camera lenses are interchangeable with other lenses on some models, be they still or movie cams.


Also, even tho the Pioneer flat panels are no more, Panasonic now has all their tech. Their circuits/designs, their lab and service techs... Panasonic bought it all and is now using it.


They said that 3 years ago nobody could compete with Pioneer in the blacks of plasma, not even Panasonic. So now the pure Pioneer blacks are not gone, they live on in the Panasonics!


Still can't compete with Cliff's triple stack, of course...!











James Cameron has signed a full one-year deal with Panasonic to sell the 3D version of the Avatar bluray disc only when bundled with Panasonic equipment.


He also recently did a test among 3 different framerates: 24, 48, and 60fps. 60 won hands down, to all onlookers. He says we don't need to worry about improving on higher pixel density, that will probably level off at 2000x4000 for now, we need to concentrate on achieving 60 fps instead, in as many venues as possible, as quickly as possible.


Just a little tidbit, now back to our regularly scheduled screenshots...











b


----------



## techman707

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* 
Also, even tho the Pioneer flat panels are no more, Panasonic now has all their tech. Their circuits/designs, their lab and service techs... Panasonic bought it all and is now using it.











James Cameron.... He also recently did a test among 3 different framerates: 24, 48, and 60fps. 60 won hands down, to all onlookers. He says we don't need to worry about improving on higher pixel density, that we will probably level off at 2000x4000 for now, and concentrate on achieving 60 fps instead, in as many venues as possible, as quickly as possible.


b
Panasonic has been using the Pioneer plasma glass in their (slightly more expensive) VT models.


James Cameron has already begun shooting at 48fps....say so long to REAL film projection.







It will only be compatible in theatres that have installed the newer 4K projectors (after first having installed 2K projectors to pull out







.)


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20345580
> 
> 
> More shots please



Oh yeah.. we'll be back for sure..










Also, I'll be posting some shots that I'll be taking from Wallace's G90 sometime in the near future. We arranged this weeks ago. I planned it as a perfect before and after party..










Plus, I'll get to try out the new BBQ unit.


Stay tuned for this one..


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/20357505
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.. we'll be back for sure..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/20357505
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.. we'll be back for sure..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I'll be posting some shots that I'll be taking from Wallace's G90 sometime in the near future. We arranged this weeks ago. I planned it as a perfect before and after party..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, I'll get to try out the new BBQ unit.
> 
> 
> Stay tuned for this one..



Most Excellent


----------



## mp20748

I'm still coming back to shots, and that should be sometime this month. For now I'm loaded with things to get done first.


A component level tech is what I am, and believe me, I have plenty to do. With power supplies being the first on my list, with many other boards to learn and put my soldering irons to..


 


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/20393697
> 
> 
> I'm still coming back to shots, and that should be sometime this month. For now I'm loaded with things to get done first.



Watch out big dog. I got me a MP Modded setup here now to spank some screenshot war ass. Keep your eyes out










Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20395330
> 
> 
> Watch out big dog. I got me a MP Modded setup here now to spank some screenshot war ass. Keep your eyes out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



No dude, you'll want to also get the very latest in what Craig and I are doing with the G90 mods..










I'll be posting a few shots this weekend. The improvements are just that profound that you should be able to see the difference in the shots. And I'm not going to do anything to the focus or convergence on the G90.


The bar has been raised!


----------



## mp20748

A few quick and dirty shots taking from the BEAST (G90)


The following shots were taking with a lot of sun light in the room.


I'll be warming up the Beast later for complete darkness shots. And when those shots are posted, you'll get to see as much as possible, the BEAST that Roars..


 


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## mp20748

A few more quick and dirties taking this morning.


I had to make another change before doing more shots. But should get back to this tonight, showing more shots after the Moome card changes.


Full 1080P /60hz
 


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## mp20748

THE BEAST once more.


A totally different board, with no setup or calibration at all for now. Just trying to show how much more sharper and dynamic things are now.


These as all shots are NOT TOUCHED, sharpened or anything. they are straight from the camera and posted here.


I will be doing a gray scale later this week.


*Full 1920x1080P 60hz*
 


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## techman707

Did you post these pictures for MOOME'S DAY?


----------



## overclkr

LOL that camera cant handle the light output of the G90










The cool part is I see no banding. You GOTTA LOVE A CRT that doesn't do BANDING!


----------



## nashou66

Auto wash!!!


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20414552
> 
> 
> 
> ....The cool part is I see no banding. You GOTTA LOVE A CRT that doesn't do BANDING!



The G90 NEVER DID banding.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20414552
> 
> 
> LOL that camera cant handle the light output of the G90



Yep, and that makes it really hard taking the shots. I've even cranked the contrast down, to include lowering the exposure setting two notches on the camera.


Now I have to go and look at a few test patterns. It's time to wrap this up!


----------



## mp20748

With some sun light in the room. The last two shots have a difference in camera exposure.


*

Full 1920X1080P direct from the Blu Ray into the BEAST*
 


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## mp20748

A few more from the BEAST. Ambient light in the room, but here we go anyways..











 


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## mp20748

The BEAST is a little too bright to capture the shots properly. I'll need to work more with the shots until I can find the right settings on the camera again.


 


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## ElTopo

Mike,


you should do some convergence.


It seems off in the corners.


ElTopo


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo* /forum/post/20471243
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> you should do some convergence.
> 
> 
> It seems off in the corners.
> 
> 
> ElTopo



The G90 were using for this is setting on a cart in front of the screen. And since it's only there for test purposes, we're not going to spend the time to really dial it in. It's really a very basic setup.


----------



## Mr Bob

For the first ISF course I took we met at Runco in Union City, back before Runco had been sold to Planar, and Jim Doolittle was there. He had dialed in a Runco front projector like nobody's business, and same thing - it was on a cart in front of the screen. He had never met me before.


While we were all gathered around, I casually laid my hands down on that cart.


He said, "Bob, you're making me VERY nervous..." knowing that all his delicate work would be going up in smoke with one false move from me.


I very *carefully* lifted my hands off the cart and backed away. He started to breathe easier again, and pretty soon we were both grinning...


We all had a great session after that training, where he had offered a special class on the fine points of CRT front projection, and I loved it -


b


----------



## atlemusic

The G70 is back!










10Mpix --> 1300p











The power of CRT!











Before MOome: (2.40:0 ratio)


----------



## rbrnb

Hello everyone, I present a new forum on the other side of the continent dedicated to Homecinema.


Section screenshots, video projector.

If you wish to register, no problem, no need to even confirmed by mail, it takes 2 minutes.


Soon may be on a

http://screenshots.leforum.eu/t3-Scr...-demontrer.htm


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/20509828
> 
> 
> The G70 is back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10Mpix --> 1300p



Very nice sir!!!


----------



## overclkr




----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rbrnb* /forum/post/20713241
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, I present a new forum on the other side of the continent dedicated to Homecinema.
> 
> 
> Section screenshots, video projector.
> 
> If you wish to register, no problem, no need to even confirmed by mail, it takes 2 minutes.
> 
> 
> Soon may be on a
> 
> http://screenshots.leforum.eu/t3-Scr...-demontrer.htm



Looks like it's on the other side of the ocean! Nice shots -


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20874025



OMG, Cliff, is that your double-stack or the triple-stack?


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlemusic* /forum/post/20509828
> 
> 
> The G70 is back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10Mpix --> 1300p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The power of CRT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before MOome: (2.40:0 ratio)



Shows what 7" guns are really capable of!











b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/20874077
> 
> 
> OMG, Cliff, is that your double-stack or the triple-stack?
> 
> 
> b



It would be the double stack with new tubes


----------



## Mr Bob

Yum! Congrats to Ken, good job. Did he do the installation of the new guns too, or did you do that?


b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/20874345
> 
> 
> Yum! Congrats to Ken, good job. Did he do the installation of the new guns too, or did you do that?
> 
> 
> b



It was a combined effort of Ken Whitcomb, Craig Rounds, Mike Parker, Arli, Dochlywd, Nashou!, Curt Palme, and few that in the background helped me to get to the point that I have now reached video nirvana


----------



## nashou66

Looks great Cliff!!!


Nashou!!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/20874415
> 
> 
> It was a combined effort of Ken Whitcomb, Craig Rounds, Mike Parker, Arli, Dochlywd, Nashou!, Curt Palme, and few that in the background helped me to get to the point that I have now reached video nirvana



Awesome crew!











b


----------



## mp20748

Been busy, but will be returning to this thread soon..










And when I do, it's going to be more screenshots..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/20952901
> 
> 
> Been busy, but will be returning to this thread soon..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when I do, it's going to be more screenshots..



Bring it










I'll be right here waiting for you.


----------



## nashou66



































































































































































Nashou!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob

*OMG!* I knew they made a movie of _The Fountainhead_, but I never could find a movie version of _Atlas Shrugged_! Dagny Taggart, the woman at the head of the entire transcontinental railroad, her dragging the floor insipid brother, the ever showing up briefly then disappearing again John Galt, the enigmatic wealthy playboy Francisco D'Anconia...


I read that thick, small print book *twice* in college, couldn't get enough of it.

*I have to see this movie!* Where do I find it?


b


----------



## cinema mad

WoW Looking Good Nash







, Some of the Best shots Ive seen from your Blend

so far, looks like your got the CMS/Grayscale,Gamma dialed mate..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21198264
> 
> *OMG!* I knew they made a movie of _The Fountainhead_, but I never could find a movie version of _Atlas Shrugged_! Dagny Taggart, the woman at the head of the entire transcontinental railroad, her dragging the floor insipid brother, the ever showing up briefly then disappearing again John Galt, the enigmatic wealthy playboy Francisco D'Anconia...
> 
> 
> I read that thick, small print book *twice* in college, couldn't get enough of it.
> 
> *I have to see this movie!* Where do I find it?
> 
> 
> b



I can not believe you have not seen it in theaters!!!


But then again in the San fran bay area the most far left liberal spot on the planet I should have known.










I got it at best buy , But Amazon has it.


Click on Link

*Altas Shrugged Part 1 (Blu-ray)* 


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Thanks, just ordered it from Amazon. What does it mean, Part 1? Is there a part 2? Does it leave off in the middle of the novel???


b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21200410
> 
> 
> Thanks, just ordered it from Amazon. What does it mean, Part 1? Is there a part 2? Does it leave off in the middle of the novel???
> 
> 
> b



Part 2 is out at theaters on April 14th 2012( tax day)










Part 3 will be out April 14th 2013.


Part one left off where Ellis Whyat burns his oil fields .My last pic is the last scene of the movie.


Athanasios


----------



## overclkr

Simply B-A-D-A-S-S


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Cliff and others, and it still not totally dialed in!!!


Focus needs lots of work.










Nashou


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21201448
> 
> 
> Part 2 is out at theaters on April 14th 2012( tax day)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 3 will be out April 14th 2013.
> 
> 
> Part one left off where Ellis Whyat burns his oil fields .My last pic is the last scene of the movie.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I am SO glad to know they didn't desecrate the book by trying to do it all in one movie!


When did this movie come out? April of 2011?


Can't wait!











b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21208790
> 
> 
> I am SO glad to know they didn't desecrate the book by trying to do it all in one movie!
> 
> 
> When did this movie come out? April of 2011?
> 
> 
> Can't wait!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



They did do some things i did not like but it still works for a movie.


it came out April 14th 2011 at theaters and just came out last week on BD.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Thx. Great to not have to feel like I missed something since I wasn't into keeping track of what was at the movies at the time. All I have to do is get the BD and I'll have what I want!


Your shots are excellent, BTW, just like the good folks here are saying! I especially like the one of Reardon Steel embossed on the train rail itself. And that shot of the suspension bridge ain't bad either...











b


----------



## *ICE*

nice!


----------



## sanhpv

why??? v


----------



## nashou66

I had my PJ calibrated to 2.4 and decided to play with the Gamma Factor Adjustment in my Lumagen VP's. It effectively lowers Gamma from 2.4 to 2.2. Here are the results.


2.4










2.2










2.4









2.2


















2.4









2.2









2.4









2.2









2.4









2.2


----------



## CaptKid

Nash,


The 2.2 is a nice improvement, the detail is very apparent. How do you have the Gamma set on the Moome?


Regards,


Justin


----------



## lordcloud

The whites seem to suffer a bit from the gamma adjustment though. I think Mike Parker made a point of that downfall of gamma adjustment before.


----------



## nashou66

The correct Gamma never has an adverse affect on whites. Gamma is determined from the 100% white point and 0%. In Mikes case it was because he never calibrated the set and just boosted Gamma with out considering the values of 100% and 0% ,and he was just using the moome which is not a linear gamma boost. So if you calibrate the set correctly and have a flat gamma curve it can only improve the overall image. Also gamma depends on viewing environment, some rooms might need an even lower gamma.


Captain, I have the gamma on the Moome's completely off since I am using the Radiance's to control all aspects of CMS inclining Gamma.


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21286342
> 
> 
> The correct Gamma never has an adverse affect on whites. Gamma is determined from the 100% white point and 0%. In Mikes case it was because he never calibrated the set and just boosted Gamma with out considering the values of 100% and 0% ,and he was just using the moome which is not a linear gamma boost. So if you calibrate the set correctly and have a flat gamma curve it can only improve the overall image. Also gamma depends on viewing environment, some rooms might need an even lower gamma.
> 
> 
> Captain, I have the gamma on the Moome's completely off since I am using the Radiance's to control all aspects of CMS inclining Gamma.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I'm referring to a gamma boost. Most accounts have gamma boosting affecting the whites. I assumed that is what was going on in the pictures, especially since the pictures show a boost in the whites at 2.2 vs 2.4


----------



## nashou66

Right Gamma boost would have that affect, but with a VP gamma is part of the CMS/Greyscale and adjusts the gamma for each % level of white.

The seemed boost is most likely caused by the camera as the APL of the scene changed with the added low level detail.


Athanasios


----------



## lordcloud




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21286755
> 
> 
> Right Gamma boost would have that affect, but with a VP gamma is part of the CMS/Greyscale and adjusts the gamma for each % level of white.
> 
> The seemed boost is most likely caused by the camera as the APL of the scene changed with the added low level detail.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Ahhhh, I see.


----------



## mp20748

I got to get back to this.


It's time to get the Beast fired back up..


----------



## Mr Bob

I have played with the Moome outboard box for use with displays without projector cards, and have replicated the same performance I saw on Cliff's setup.


My impression is that the Moome gamma bump affects chiefly the darks, not the whites. It may increase the whites a bit, but that's an overall light level concern that can be easily replicated simply by goosing up the Contrast control a bit.


The real value of the Moome gamma bump is not in the whites, not in the blacks, but in the mid-grays, just above black. It keeps black *dead black* - I call that "clamping to black" - while allowing you to see more of the shadow details - by a long shot - than without it.


Improving the pic immensely. Thanks, Cliff, for introducing me to that!











b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21283398
> 
> 
> I had my PJ calibrated to 2.4 and decided to play with the Gamma Factor Adjustment in my Lumagen VP's. It effectively lowers Gamma from 2.4 to 2.2. Here are the results.
> 
> 
> 2.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2



Seriously kick ass shots Nash!


----------



## techman707




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21328439
> 
> 
> Seriously kick ass shots Nash!



Cliffy, the reason you know that is because you're a KICK ASS type guy.









*MERRY XMAS CLIFFY !*

*==SEASONS GREETINGS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL==*


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21325180
> 
> 
> I have played with the Moome outboard box for use with displays without projector cards, and have replicated the same performance I saw on Cliff's setup.
> 
> 
> My impression is that the Moome gamma bump affects chiefly the darks, not the whites. It may increase the whites a bit, but that's an overall light level concern that can be easily replicated simply by goosing up the Contrast control a bit.
> 
> 
> The real value of the Moome gamma bump is not in the whites, not in the blacks, but in the mid-grays, just above black. It keeps black *dead black* - I call that "clamping to black" - while allowing you to see more of the shadow details - by a long shot - than without it.
> 
> 
> Improving the pic immensely. Thanks, Cliff, for introducing me to that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



Sorry I missed this Bob! If you think the moome card is nice, remove the gamma chip from it and pair it with a Radiance. ABSOLUTELY PERFECT from top to bottom!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techman707* /forum/post/21359710
> 
> 
> Cliffy, the reason you know that is because you're a KICK ASS type guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MERRY XMAS CLIFFY !*
> 
> *==SEASONS GREETINGS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL==*



Right back at ya BIG DOG!!!!!!! I hope all is well with you!


----------



## nashou66






























Nashou!!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21362942
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed this Bob! If you think the moome card is nice, remove the gamma chip from it and pair it with a Radiance. ABSOLUTELY PERFECT from top to bottom!



You saying to remove the Moome box I've used and replace the whole thing with a Radiance instead? You can't just remove the chip. That would disable the value of the circuit!


b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21383280
> 
> 
> You saying to remove the Moome box I've used and replace the whole thing with a Radiance instead? You can't just remove the chip. That would disable the value of the circuit!
> 
> 
> b



Yep! Remove the GAMMA chip from the Moome and use the Radiance. MUCH MUCH BETTER. My setup is now SPOT ON from TOP to Bottom!


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> Much much better.



I agree 100% with this.

The gamma boost capability with the Moome is done in the analog domain which means it has some negative effects on the signal that are unwanted - ringing, etc.


While a gamma boost is really necessary to have true blacks without crush, it can be done (along with other good things) perfectly in the digital domain with the full cms/grayscale calibration capability that the Radiance, Duo and VideoEq have.


If you don't have either of these, then keep the gamma capability in the Moome.



Bob


----------



## cencio

Hello Guys,

but is it possible on the Moome FULL HD v3 VIM in my Marquee too?

Can I remove the Gamma chip from the VIM?

Thanks


All you have a Good Christhmas and a Happy New Year


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> Can I remove the Gamma chip from the VIM?



I suggest you e-mail Moome for particulars. He would best know how.


Bob


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21384010
> 
> 
> Yep! Remove the GAMMA chip from the Moome and use the Radiance. MUCH MUCH BETTER. My setup is now SPOT ON from TOP to Bottom!



The only value of the Moome that I know of is the gamma bump. If you remove that gamma chip, why have the Moome in the circuit at all after that? Are there other things the Moome does that I don't know about?


b


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21389291
> 
> 
> The only value of the Moome that I know of is the gamma bump. If you remove that gamma chip, why have the Moome in the circuit at all after that? Are there other things the Moome does that I don't know about?
> 
> 
> b



Umm allows non HDCP displays to show HDCP encypted video.










Also the conversion from Digital to Analog RGBHV is top notch, better than some high end dedicated VP's that cannot allow HDCP encrypted video to pass on to the display.


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Yeah, like the VP 20 and VP50, all the DVDOs, tho they are stellar in all other ways. Still confined by the HDCP.


The HD Fury series does all that as well tho, and superlatively. Is there any reason other than the gamma bump for the Moome to take center stage over the Fury II or III? And if you have the Fury in place, seems like it would do no good to yank the gamma chip from the Moome, right?


b


----------



## nashou66

Craig rounds had a video or pics of scope shots of the multi-burst pattern, the moome outperformed it. It is just a better product for videophiles.


Ok found Craigs pics: HD Fury III ( [email protected])











Now the Moome Card at [email protected]!!!!( not his latest)












As you can see it can handle the bandwidth of 1080p much better at an even higher scan rate than the HDF3.


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Here is Craigs explination:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19189385 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CIR-Engineering* /forum/post/19189385
> 
> 
> I got a PM question regarding the photos I posted so here is the answer and explanation.
> 
> 
> The photos I posted are of my oscilloscope displaying a multiburst test pattern from my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator. To get the scope to display the pattern, the green BNC from the HDMI to RGBHV transcoder was connected to the scope input. A multiburst pattern looks like the image below when shown on your projector screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the multburst pattern shows is the bandwidth of the device being tested. The black and white alternating lines start out wide on the left and then get narrower and narrower towards the right side of the pattern. At the right side with the thinnest lines, the black and white lines are literally one pixel width wide. Since the lines are only one pixel width wide, they represent the maximum resolution of the device being tested.
> 
> 
> The scope photos show 1080p 60Hz. What you see on the projector screen is a black and white alternating line. The scope shows the rise and fall of these lines as they go from black to white and back and forth.
> 
> 
> Ideally, when you look at the multiburst on the projector screen, the 1 pixel wide lines would be just as bright as the lines that are very wide. In real world analog this is never the case.
> 
> 
> However, what you want to see is a transcoder that does as good a job as is possible. If a transcoder were perfect, all the lines in the burst pattern from the thick ones to the thinnest ones would be exactly the same height (amplitude) on the scope.
> 
> 
> What you see on the Moome box is that all the lines are the same height except for the very finest 1 pixel wide lines. What you see on the HDF3 is a kind of hour glass shape to the different width lines and the tightly spaced lines (high frequency) are not nearly as tall as the wide lines (attenuated). This means that the image can not be as sharp because the bandwidth is attenuated before it hits the projector and you can't properly draw edges of objects (softer).
> 
> 
> Another observation from the scope shot is that there is a lot of noise and irregularities in the HDF3 multiburst. You can also see a lot of peaking (edge enhancements) on the high frequency part of the burst on the HDF3. The Moome box does not have these problems either.
> 
> 
> On a 7" projector this won't really matter, on a good 8" projector it will make a difference, and on a good 9" projector it will make a huge difference.
> 
> 
> craigr




Nashou


----------



## Boilermaker




> Quote:
> Yeah, like the VP 20 and VP50, all the DVDOs, tho they are stellar in all other ways




Only the vp series have D/A converters. The Duo has only digital outputs.


If I didn't have full cms/grayscale multipoint capability, I would definately use a gamma boost such as the Moome. I just use the Moome for HDCP & D/A conversion.


Note that all of Moome's products have gamma boost capability only on their analog outputs - not the digital outputs on his Mux's.


Bob


----------



## nashou66

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah to all my Screen Shot War Buddies!!!


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Welcome!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Boilermaker* /forum/post/21391076
> 
> 
> Only the vp series have D/A converters. The Duo has only digital outputs.
> 
> 
> If I didn't have full cms/grayscale multipoint capability, I would definately use a gamma boost such as the Moome. I just use the Moome for HDCP & D/A conversion.
> 
> 
> Note that all of Moome's products have gamma boost capability only on their analog outputs - not the digital outputs on his Mux's.
> 
> 
> Bob



Actually Moome tells me that his gamma bump is only on the HDMI outputs, which is why he has not been able to send me a box for component output. Not enough output from component, evidently, would need an additional stage. He was going to see what he could do but that was months ago, I will report in if I hear more about that -


b


----------



## nashou66

















































Nashou!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob

Awesome depth there, Nashou!











b


----------



## Kevin 3000

Look out I am back time for a comparison or 2......


JVC RS65










CRT stack G90s










JVC RS65










CRT stack G90s with new Tubes










Overclkr looking a little dim.....you need to fire up your triple stack to to compete with this BAD BOY JVC....hehehe


----------



## MV_Cinema

Ohhh man, the JVC is finally taking CRT territory.

I must admmit...in terms of focus and colors is better....even with Cine 9...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21471026
> 
> 
> Ohhh man, the JVC is finally taking CRT territory.
> 
> I must admmit...in terms of focus and colors is better....even with Cine 9...



Did I miss something... was a thread deleted??


----------



## Dr. Spankenstein

Um, yeah...


Those blown-out highlights and tinted grayscale are something to behold!



Keep tryin'...


----------



## Kevin 3000

Another compariison for you all to compare........


JVC RS65 Out of the box setting FILM1 GAMMA 1.8










CRT stack G90s New Tubes Calibrated to within an inch of their lives.


----------



## ElTopo

For me the G90's are still better.


Maybe true that the JVC's Brightness is higher but the shots of the G90 are showing more Depth and black.


----------



## ElTopo

BTW as already mentioned greyscale looks bad on the JVC


----------



## Dr. Spankenstein

Gamma differences are obvious if you look at the area around her clavicle.


The higher gamma of the G90 just stomps the digital for depth.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21478588
> 
> 
> Another compariison for you all to compare........
> 
> 
> JVC RS65 Out of the box setting FILM1 GAMMA 1.8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT stack G90s New Tubes Calibrated to within an inch of their lives.



LOL Kevin nice try. Why don't you bring that cute little d!g$tal on over to my place for a DIRECT comparison! LOL. Just so you know my colors/gamma/greyscale is SPOT ON from top to bottom and I have Ken Whitcomb and Craig Rounds to prove it.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo* /forum/post/21483689
> 
> 
> For me the G90's are still better.
> 
> 
> Maybe true that the JVC's Brightness is higher but the shots of the G90 are showing more Depth and black.



There is no way in hell that JVC is brighter than the stack.

















Now all we have to do is get Kevin to bring that JVC on over!


----------



## Kevin 3000

Increased Gamma D 2.6......Compare to above......Gamma 2.35 should be the sweet spot.


JVC RS65 (1 of) needs calibrating......


----------



## Mr Bob

I know the sweet spot is _supposed to be_ 2.35, and that according to ISF CRT has the ideal gamma naturally. It was stated in my advanced Level II ISF course last year that digitals endeavor to emulate CRT on that ideal gamma, and SpectraCal's CalMan 4 color analyzer automatically runs a test with all the gamma settings available to choose from on the more advanced displays, after which you can look the results over and set your display's Gamma setting to the one which delivers closest to the 2.35 "ideal", as laid out by CalMan.


But as proven by Cliff's Moome-equipped setup, there is a _more_ ideal gamma than 2.35, and according to Cliff *all* CRTs need it, to do their finest work. Direct quote. I have found this to be _absolutely_ true on my 73" Mit CRT, no question, and it definitely shows up on his G90 stack, be it double or triple. My thanks to Cliff for personally taking the time to clue me in on all this!


The more ideal gamma of 2.2 has been illustrated recently here on this thread by Nashou, see #5109, from last page back. The pix there speak for themselves. Dynamite!


Kudos to Ken W and Craig R!











b


----------



## MV_Cinema

I don't want to seem a pleasure destroyer for the CRT owner's but...the JVC is better.

Just because CRT was the best, and has amazong black levels, and costed a fortune, doesn't mean it's the best right now.


The screeshots speak for themselves.


By the way that comparison with the G90...you all can see there is more detail in the JVC...










Not to mention maintenance of CRT Projectors and JVC...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21493307
> 
> 
> I don't want to seem a pleasure destroyer for the CRT owner's but...the JVC is better.
> 
> Just because CRT was the best, and has amazong black levels, and costed a fortune, doesn't mean it's the best right now.
> 
> 
> The screeshots speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> By the way that comparison with the G90...you all can see there is more detail in the JVC...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention maintenance of CRT Projectors and JVC...



Trust me, I have no displeasure. That JVC looks fake, overblown, "pixelated". With that being said, it "looks" that way from the shot. Side by side the stack would smoke the JVC. It wouldn't even be close. We have to remember we are looking at screenshots and they really are not completely representative of what we are seeing. For example, while my shots "appear" to have less detail, that is not the case in person. The camera is just having a hard time picking it up because the blacks really are that good










Not to mention, we are using two different cameras, and on top of that, if I remember correctly, Kevin likes to "adjust" his shots. I just snap, crop, and post


----------



## Kevin 3000

Thanks for the info Bob....


Gereral comment

My screen is an optically coated 1.4gain, i do try my best to photograph what i see. No photoshop or enhancing software used check my EXIF data.


As with the CRTs in real life this JVC is truly a sight to be seen.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21493678
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info Bob....
> 
> 
> Gereral comment
> 
> My screen is an optically coated 1.4gain, i do try my best to photograph what i see. No photoshop or enhancing software used check my EXIF data.
> 
> 
> As with the CRTs in real life this JVC is truly a sight to be seen.



Hehe, I knew that would draw you in.










Yes, they have come a LONG LONG way in what I feel is a very short time for sure. Even when I saw the RS1 with it's shortcomings I was impressed. To this day, I do not understand why JVC doesn't build a larger projector to handle a higher wattage lamp (let alone the rest of the bunch outside of 3 Chip DLP) so that we can drive at the very least a 10ft wide screen at a reasonable price (flat gain).


What is your location Kevin?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21492967
> 
> 
> I know the sweet spot is _supposed to be_ 2.35, and that according to ISF CRT has the ideal gamma naturally. It was stated in my advanced Level II ISF course last year that digitals endeavor to emulate CRT on that ideal gamma, and SpectraCal's CalMan 4 color analyzer automatically runs a test with all the gamma settings available to choose from on the more advanced displays, after which you can look the results over and set your display's Gamma setting to the one which delivers closest to the 2.35 "ideal", as laid out by CalMan.
> 
> 
> But as proven by Cliff's Moome-equipped setup, there is a _more_ ideal gamma than 2.35, and according to Cliff *all* CRTs need it, to do their finest work. Direct quote. I have found this to be _absolutely_ true on my 73" Mit CRT, no question, and it definitely shows up on his G90 stack, be it double or triple. My thanks to Cliff for personally taking the time to clue me in on all this!
> 
> 
> The more ideal gamma of 2.2 has been illustrated recently here on this thread by Nashou, see #5109, from last page back. The pix there speak for themselves. Dynamite!
> 
> 
> Kudos to Ken W and Craig R!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b



No thank you Bob, cause it was all of us in one big ass swoop that got the TRUE meaning of what CRT should be working together and that is the BOMB!


Darin came here not to long ago and we popped in Finding Nemo on DVD and watched the Abyss scene when the glasses get dropped into the dark. Holy SCHIT dude I mean SERIOUSLY, it was pitch black in my room. We both had huge smiles on our faces.


Yes, when done right, and I have to add this for ANYONE looking to do CRT, you MUST have proper color filtering and as well CMS! Me, I prefer Moome (Mike Parker Modded) along with the Lumagen Radiance. Absolutely BEYOND killer combo. Not only that, but that Radiance, damn, smokin, and it does 3D, advanced gamma, auto color/greyscale/gamma correction for most colorimeters/measurement "devices", as well as many many many other features!


I remember when I first saw that processor out at William's Blend Meet I actually laughed at it because the menu's look like an Atari 2600.










I'm not laughing any more though. Absolutely stunning. Over the years in it's development, Lumagen has raised the bar for ANYONE who has the nuts at this point to compete with them as the support has been bar none period as well as features. Not one single video processor on the market can come close to it.


Add the Mike Parker Mod's and DAMN.


Let's see. Art Sonneborn, Ken Whitcomb, Craig Rounds, Alan Gouger, AVSFORUM, Curt Palme, Curt's Forum, WALLACE, The folks at Lumagen, NASHOU!!!!!!, Clarence, BOMRAT (Arli), MIKE PARKER, SCOTT(TSE), TERRY, BRUCE, GANNON, sheesh, the list just goes on and on. (I'm sorry if I missed you the typing is a pain in the ASS!)


The best part is, people say CRT is dead. Uh huh, for the mainstream yes, but for the VIDEOPHILE, no. Absolutely NOT. It's that good when done right. ALWAYS will be.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21495092
> 
> 
> Hehe, I knew that would draw you in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they have come a LONG LONG way in what I feel is a very short time for sure. Even when I saw the RS1 with it's shortcomings I was impressed. To this day, I do not understand why JVC doesn't build a larger projector to handle a higher wattage lamp (let alone the rest of the bunch outside of 3 Chip DLP) so that we can drive at the very least a 10ft wide screen at a reasonable price (flat gain).
> 
> 
> What is your location Kevin?



Across the pond in the UK..............I get what you are saying about Abyss. I watched some of Solaris and the fade to blacks held black long enough for the next scene to start (less than 2 seconds) outstanding for a digital with a constant light source 1.4gain Black Diamond 8ft wide screen.


I have yet to watch a film ib 3D but what i have seen for testing purposes i had no complaints.


Also this JVC has an Auto calibration feature yet to be tested, convergence is Zone controlled for PERFECT alignment, Lens memory another nice feature i could go on but this is the Screenshot War!!! thread so let the War continue, unless you all want to wave your white flags and Bow to this mighty JVC Digital hehehehe. I will be checking the EXIF data for detailed shooting info.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21495421
> 
> *i could go on but this is the Screenshot War!!! thread so let the War continue, unless you all want to wave your white flags and Bow to this mighty JVC Digital hehehehe*. I will be checking the EXIF data for detailed shooting info.



Kevin's back again..










I must say, I do like your drive and persistence. You somehow remind of a kid who just got a new bicycle and being so impressed with it, he wants to take it on the highway with the real vehicles.

Well, I'm back in town now, and nothing has inspired me more to get back on this thread, than to see you once posting those unrealistic images and then boasting about how much better they are to CRT.


I've been working on some new stuff well over a year, and I'll spend a good part of the day moving from the proto to the actual boards. I'm hoping to put a few shots up later tonight.


Talk about gamma... I'm coming back with a set of Super Low Noise Marquee neck boards. Mt setup will not be using the Moome gamma circuit, nor will I be using a processor. Stay tuned..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21495633
> 
> 
> Kevin's back again..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must say, I do like your drive and persistence. You somehow remind of a kid who just got a new bicycle and being so impressed with it, he wants to take it on the highway with the real vehicles.
> 
> Well, I'm back in town now, and nothing has inspired me more to get back on this thread, than to see you once posting those unrealistic images and then boasting about how much better they are to CRT.



You will need (2) G90s stacked to have a chance with this BAD ASS JVC. I can`t lower my e-shift anymore to keep you guys interested.


----------



## chipvideo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21461631
> 
> 
> Look out I am back time for a comparison or 2......
> 
> 
> JVC RS65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT stack G90s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC RS65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRT stack G90s with new Tubes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclkr looking a little dim.....you need to fire up your triple stack to to compete with this BAD BOY JVC....hehehe



The colors look funny on the JVC. Whites are little bit purple.


----------



## MV_Cinema

That JVC is FANTASTIC...PERFECT!

The only thing i don't use is 3D, i don't like it.

3D is dead, people just don't see that...


----------



## mp20748

OK Kev. I'm back on line with my Super Marquee. The shots below were taking directly from the camera, so they are untouched 1080P shots. The projector has yet to be calibrated to the latest neck boards and 03 VIM.


I will spend a few more days when I can and dial things in better. I have to also get a few parts in for the VIM, so let's look at this coming weekend, and I promise you I'll make this your last boast on this forum..










I got something for you. Again, no Moome gamma, no processor. staright from the BD player into Moome card in the projector. And we can do sharpness as well..










I'm also using the same camera I've used all of last year and sometime before.


So by all means get that JVC tweaked better than it is now, that would eliminate any excuses. And let's prepare and get ready to go the war this weekend. I'm going to spank that little JVC's plastic butt..









 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 


 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Fredrik

I must say that by just looking at the shots here the JVC looks pretty good, there are some areas that doesn't look that great.

I've got a BD808 still so that is kind of what I have in my memory, not a G90 or other 9" CRT









E.g. there seemt to be some white clipping on the chin and eyebrow on the first screenshots.

The JVC color seem to be a bit purple as already stated above.

The CRT shot seem to be (when comparing the two at least) to be a bit green.

Not sure if that is correct though live or if it's my monitor or my eyes that are playing tricks


----------



## mp20748

A few quick shots while burn-in testing the neck boards.


It's going to get better by the weekend..

*Pure 1080P raw from my CRT*
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21499856
> 
> 
> That JVC is FANTASTIC...PERFECT!
> 
> The only thing i don't use is 3D, i don't like it.
> 
> 3D is dead, people just don't see that...



****ing troll. lol.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chipvideo* /forum/post/21499630
> 
> 
> The colors look funny on the JVC. Whites are little bit purple.



Looking at pictures with "uncalibrated" monitors is the first big mistake










With that being said Kevin is reaching hard. Really hard. LOL.


I would be glad to host his "JVC" with my "STACK" and have the best of the best come over to compare both and declare a winner. How does that sound? LOL.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21503109
> 
> 
> A few quick shots while burn-in testing the neck boards.
> 
> 
> It's going to get better by the weekend..
> 
> *Pure 1080P raw from my CRT*
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Alright my friend I must interject here










Here is one of my original shots. Focus brother focus:




















Also, try to control those whites. Bloomy big time. Even in my shots. I'm gonna hire Clarence to come over and help me bust a big nut on the forum big time. LOL.


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr


































































(nothing offensive about boobies. Matter of fact, I love boobies







)


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## overclkr




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## overclkr




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## overclkr

Bring it bitches!


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## JukeBox360

How does everyone take such great pictures!? Teach me your ways oh great ones.


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## overclkr




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## overclkr

Muwahahahahahaha!


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## overclkr




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## MV_Cinema

Isn't the G90 a problematic Projector?

It burns a chip i think and it's very expensive to repair...


Sony, Sony Sony...same crap even expensive....


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## Fredrik

Those shots are great overclkr


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## JukeBox360

No advice?


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## Kevin 3000

Dark Knight common scene CRTs should kill this JVC Digital with this content.


STOP beating your bishops and spank this MIGHTY JVC if you can.


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## MV_Cinema

Curious...yesterday at night i was watching this movie once more...and those dark scenes are amazing.

The JVC maes a spectacular job.

Congrats on you're machine


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21505092
> 
> 
> Dark Knight common scene CRTs should kill this JVC Digital with this content.
> 
> 
> STOP beating your bishops and spank this MIGHTY JVC if you can.



Sure! Here is an OLD ONE. Be glad to shoot that same pic if you like. Give me time though, gotta work this week










BTW, the only way that JVC is going to beat me in blacks is if you put a CAP OVER THE LENS! LOL!


----------



## maf12

Oh wait the bulb just burned out on the JVC


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## nashou66

Some oldies but goodies!!!!

























































































Athanasios


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21508341
> 
> 
> Some oldies but goodies!!!!
> 
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> Athanasios



Simply bad ass


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21504814
> 
> 
> Isn't the G90 a problematic Projector?
> 
> It burns a chip i think and it's very expensive to repair...
> 
> 
> Sony, Sony Sony...same crap even expensive....



It depends on the serial number. If the model does not fall in a particular range, then NO, no issues. I'm on year 6 right now with my stack (bought used). One of my projectors has almost 30,000 hours on it.


----------



## MV_Cinema




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maf12* /forum/post/21507909
> 
> 
> Oh wait the bulb just burned out on the JVC



When the wallet is burned out that's a good excuse


----------



## MV_Cinema




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21509118
> 
> 
> It depends on the serial number. If the model does not fall in a particular range, then NO, no issues. I'm on year 6 right now with my stack (bought used). One of my projectors has almost 30,000 hours on it.



How do you know if the G90 has the problem corrected? Is there a serial number where you start to count from?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21509983
> 
> 
> How do you know if the G90 has the problem corrected? Is there a serial number where you start to count from?



Like I said, although not sure of the number range, someone else can chime in if they like, a "batch" of G90's has a version of the IC that could be defective. This chip is no longer produced. If you do not fall into that category, your G90 is not affected.


----------



## MV_Cinema

You have a fantastic setup, however there are many concerns that a person should have while choosing CRT or JVC for example.

The JVC provides an amazing picture, and when need a new bulb it's only $400 USD, while a Cine 9 or G90 to re-tube is aroung 4000 to $5000 USD, am i correct?


And as for parts, you need to have the right sources, because buying parts from Barco or Sony, i suppose the prices are very high.


I am going to buy a Projector, but the JVC. not the CRT.

I have an offer for a Barco Cine 9 (pure Cine, not 909) for less 3000 Euros than the JVC. The ptojector has around 4000 hours, but i will go to the JVC RS65.


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

A few more very quick shots.


 


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## mp20748

Hey Kev, where you are you?


I'm getting closer, but still have a few more things to do before calibration. Just thought I'd give you a few more UN-touched shots to mimic..







.until I'm truly ready.


Full 1080P from the Blue Ray directly into the Moome/Marquee
 


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## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21515567
> 
> 
> Hey Kev, where you are you?
> 
> 
> I'm getting closer, but still have a few more things to do before calibration. Just thought I'd give you a few more UN-touched shots to mimic..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .until I'm truly ready.



Posted some on the previous page http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21505092 scene from Dark Knight, also a few from Sin City.


Get with it man plenty to compare with no excuses just show us what you got.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21515607
> 
> 
> 
> Get with it man plenty to compare with no excuses just show us what you got.



So you want me to join you in showing shots of how well the projectors do black and gamma. And we judge this through our various monitors..










I know you at least have Baraka. So could you post comparison shots?


----------



## kal

C'mon guys. Screenshots are fun so stop taking it very seriously. Use them for the meaningless fun they are but stop comparing. It's really meaningless.



Screenshots can not in any way ever represent what you actually see in person, so they cannot be used to compare one projector with another - especially when two people are taking pictures with different cameras.


Some people are fond of saying *"these are pictures directly out of the camera"* as if there's no processing done. These people are completely ignorant about how digital cameras work and I pull my hair out every time I hear someone say it.


To use an analogy, it's as illogical as thinking that a song you're listening too on your stereo sounds *EXACTLY* like the original band live in person because you have your bass and treble controls on your stereo set to '0' (disabled). I'm bypassing the tone controls so therefore it sounds exactly like it did in the recording studio live and in person right? Yeah right. Everyone seems to understand why that doesn't work, but with cameras for some reason people are truly ignorant about how they work.


Cameras do all sorts of intensive *INTERNAL* processing you're not aware of (and can't and wouldn't want to disable) to recreate the JPG image including adding sharpening (it has to), making up the colours (digital cameras don't understand the concept of colour - they estimate), setting the black level to what it "thinks" is right based on the average picture level by adjusting exposure (most times the any camera will make the darkest colour black so all projectors end up with great black level), and so on. It then uses lossy compression (reducing detail) to create the final JPG.


Then to make matters worse, people take these photos, reduce the resolution to well below the original 1080p resolution, upload them to picture sharing sites which reduce the resolution and compress them even further, and then expect people looking at them on uncalibrated monitors to compare, like it means something. Huh?


Want to REALLY show what it looks like? The photos need to be shot in RAW format (only available on better cameras, mostly DSLR cameras) to bypass the internal processing and then the person has to use a calibrated work flow process using various software in order apply this processing correctly and carefully using a *calibrated* monitor and then view them on the *calibrated* monitor. Processing needs to be done. There's no way around it. This includes applying a certain level of sharpness (yes, sharpness), choosing and applying lighting colour temperature (hard to do), white balance to set the colours (digital cameras don't understand colour - it needs to be told), correct exposure to get black levels right to match what's seen in person (not what the camera thinks is black), and so on. It's very tricky.


Even if that's done correctly, a camera has a much lower contrast ratio than what our projectors do. We can't capture all the subtle gradients of light from black to white. To get around this you need to take multiple photos at different exposures and combine them using a process called HDR (high dynamic range).


Moral of the story:


I've seen shots of really cheap $50 projectors that look phenominal because the person knows what they're doing.

I've seen shots of really expensive $50,000 projectors that look like crap because the person doesn't know what they're doing.


Good screenshots are more an example of how lucky someone is or how good of a photographer they are.


Have fun, but please don't take it seriously, and please nobody respond saying "my photos are untouched". I'm going to kill someone.










Kal


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## nashou66

Kal we are not taking it seriously, we are having fun. thats the best part is ripping each other over the shots that obviously will look different on different monitors etc than they do in person.


Especially when Kevin chimes in!!!










Nashou


----------



## kal

Well then let the fun continue!










Kal


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## Kevin 3000

Anoher comparison same exposure as well half a second f2.8.

Soon to be Calibrated.


JVC (1) RS65










CRT G90s (2) Stacked Calibrated (green tinge camera issue most likely)











Kal

So you telling me Cliffs camera is `out of focus` and comparisons are useless?


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21516394
> 
> 
> Kal
> 
> So you telling me Cliffs camera is `out of focus` and comparisons are useless?



No, I'm saying that comparisons [overall] are useless. See my above post.


The images shown here are also about 1/4 the resolution of the original 1080p frame too so the idea of using them as a test of sharpness is made even more meaningless.


They're not the same frame either nor were they taken on the same Blu-ray player.


Sharpness differences can only be done using extreme closeups where each pixel on screen is covered by multiple pixels in the camera, and that's in a controlled environment usign the same equipement for both tests where the only difference is the thing being tested: The projector.


I'm not picking sides here. I don't love a specific technology. Yes, I own CRT now but I'm currently shopping to replace it with an LCOS digital projector (likely JVC).


I'm trying to get people to stop comparing projectors using screenshots like these two you posted as the way people are doing it with different cameras in different setups is absolutely useless. This thread's for fun but obviously not everyone takes it that way.


You don't get people in the audio forum taking audio recordings of their speakers player and then posting them for comparison with others as that's obviously futile and pointless, but when it comes to screenshots people don't seem understand that they're basically doing the same thing.


Kal


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## mp20748

here ya go Kev. I used something that should be in your Blue Ray stash. Can we do the comparison thing?




 


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## Kevin 3000

Just look above and relish in the glory of DIGITAL - JVC resolution (even taken at a lower res pic 1024 vs 1280) still destroys the G90s STACK.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21520667
> 
> 
> Just look above and relish in the glory of DIGITAL - JVC resolution (even taken at a lower res pic 1024 vs 1280) still destroys the G90s STACK.



Hey, why you keeping talking about the G90's... don't u have some luv for me..










OK, so the shots you compared with the stack, I don't have. So what shots would you like for me to post this weekend for you to compare with?



Anyway, I got the parts in yesterday, so the neck boards are now complete.


There are 49 different component changes made to each of them. The finished one (green) shown below barely shows any changes, but trust me, they are there..










 


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## mp20748

All now reassembled -


A few more quickies seeing how well it does with a not so good transfer.


 


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## Kevin 3000

NEWSFLASH--Unexplained power shortage reported near Cliffs location....

He must be powering up the TRIPLE STACK with his high end VPs trying to understand

how a DIGITAL JVC can bitchslap a STACK.......check above.


HEHEHEHE


----------



## lewis

And how does the JVC handle motion? Still shots are one thing but how many of us watch movies frame per frame.......


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21525870
> 
> 
> NEWSFLASH--Unexplained power shortage reported near Cliffs location....
> 
> He must be powering up the TRIPLE STACK with his high end VPs trying to understand
> 
> how a DIGITAL JVC can bitchslap a STACK.......check above.
> 
> 
> HEHEHEHE



LOL!!!! Keep reaching Kevin!!! Bring that POS over to my place and we'll have a REAL CONTEST!


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/21526432
> 
> 
> And how does the JVC handle motion? Still shots are one thing but how many of us watch movies frame per frame.......



Exactly! Digital motion resolution is getting Better but from what i heard only

thE new VDC Marquee HD SSl 6000 series has CRT like motion resolution.











Athanasios


----------



## Kevin 3000

Looks like this Screenshot War!!! has been Won by a DIGITAL with the

above JVC entry. I would also GIVE UP and diss the JVC if i owned a CRT seeing that resolution and quality of image




























.


----------



## lewis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21527354
> 
> 
> Looks like this Screenshot War!!! has been Won by a DIGITAL with the
> 
> above JVC entry. I would also GIVE UP and diss the JVC if i owned a CRT seeing that resolution and quality of image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> .



Delusional too. Well so long as you're happy, that's all that matters, right?


----------



## MV_Cinema




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/21527255
> 
> 
> Exactly! Digital motion resolution is getting Better but from what i heard only
> 
> thE new VDC Marquee HD SSl 6000 series has CRT like motion resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



What is this machine? Does it has blacks like the JVC?

Can the picture actually compare to Cine 9 or Marque 9500LC Ultra?


----------



## lewis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21529830
> 
> 
> What is this machine? Does it has blacks like the JVC?
> 
> Can the picture actually compare to Cine 9 or Marque 9500LC Ultra?



3chip DLP with LED light source so at least it won't suffer from rainbows. Not very bright which means maximum practical screen size will be restrictive.


----------



## mp20748

Yo Kev. I took a few oldies but goodies for you tonight, in hopes you posting comparison shots of the same scenes. Seems like I can't get your attention these days. I've even held off on finishing up on the setup sincce your JVC seems to also need some attention..










I'm still shooting on a 8' wide screen.


 


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## EJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/21530289
> 
> 
> 3chip DLP with LED light source so at least it won't suffer from rainbows. Not very bright which means maximum practical screen size will be restrictive.



In '99, I worked for a projector rental house. We'd rent everything from small boardroom projectors to electrohome roadies with interchangeable 30 lb lenses. Many rentals were 3 chip DLP. I remember thinking the prices of this tech was going to fall quickly, as rainbows bothered me then, like they do now, but overall, it remains a premium.


----------



## mp20748

Hey Kev, where are you?


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## mp20748

Are you still out there Kev?


----------



## mp20748

can you come out and play, and bring that JVC with you..


----------



## mp20748

OK, I take back all that I've ever said about your JVC, wit the exception of spanking it's little plastic butt..


----------



## mp20748

This morning my Marquee woke me up and told me to post a few shots for you before I left out for the day.


 


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## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21534546
> 
> 
> can you come out and play, and bring that JVC with you..



As soon as i see something with no film grain or crushed blacks










Dark Knight or Sin City.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000* /forum/post/21534554
> 
> 
> As soon as i see something with no film grain or crushed blacks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dark Knight or Sin City.



So you want me to also get into the trick camera thing huh!


Dark Knight and Sin City... let's see I'm supposed to take an $100.00 point and shoot camera and capture the absolute BLACK and low range from my projected image on a screen. Somehow without the help of a video production crew and very expensive cameras and experience, you seem to think it's possible to capture the most difficult part of video, which happens to be low end performance. And the film grain, well, that's what the camera saw, and since I'm only pointing and shooting - it is what it is..










Now, can you do the same and post a side by side comparison, hopefully showing something more sensible, like the faces and other clear objects in the image.


Oh, and do I need to even bother trying to get into the difference my CRT would do in low end performance compared to your DIGITAL??


Or are you saying you have the first digital that will blow away the low end performance of a seriously top end CRT projector??


Straight from the camera projected onto an 8' wide screen... oh and check out how natural those faces are in those shots...


----------



## Kevin 3000

The answers you seek are here.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/B...est_Finala.htm 


From the Cine4Home review....


"Our results show that JVC has promised not too much: not only the maximum light output has improved compared to the previous generation, but also much more light is left over after calibration. Because the native contrast values were further increased, offer the X 70 / X 90 despite the increased light output the same excellent black level. This is especially paid when at the same time are black and very light elements (e.g. white stars) of the image. So a unique depth is achieved by high native contrast, which is not possible with Adaptive aperture systems. In such scenes of image the JVC D-ILA projectors are still unbeaten, no competitive technology approaches currently at this level!"


"-An absolute unique feature is the Adobe RGB compatibility by means of special Greenfilters. Thus, the X are 70 / 90 to the very few models that can be taken "seriously" by professional photographers.


-The additional available color management makes it possible to calibrate on other standards, e.g. on xvYCC, as it will hopefully be supported by future Blu-rays.


-Camcorder support already now xvYCC, these are the X 7 / X 9 if necessary, the X 3 does not.


-The specially programmed cinema color profiles allow the use of larger color spaces without having to go up deficits in skin tones (Special CMS with paged orange) and thus provide more brilliance for both real and animated films."


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies..


 


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## overclkr

Ahem..... Some practice shots.


----------



## VPH-G90

My G90

1920x817p72


----------



## Mr Bob

My God, Cliff, it's like you're there! Definitely some reference shots!











b


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## nashou66

Both those G90 owners shaot rock!!


Nashou


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## mp20748

A few more quickies, taking before warm-up and with ambient light in the room.


I'll dial it in later nad post back with more shots from this same BR.




 


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## mp20748

More...


 


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21598785
> 
> 
> More...




Nice! Warming up the stack now


----------



## mp20748

Yo Cliff,

what is a good BR to show the streaking in a G90?


And what scene, what should i be looking for. I have a few down days and have been working on the G90 streaking issue.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21604875
> 
> 
> Yo Cliff,
> 
> what is a good BR to show the streaking in a G90?
> 
> 
> And what scene, what should i be looking for. I have a few down days and have been working on the G90 streaking issue.



You know I haven't been seeing much if any streaking lately Mike to be honest with you. I think most of the streaking was attributed to the NEC switcher I was using. Not that it is gone 100% it's just pretty rare when it does happen........ I'll keep an eye out for you and let you know.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21606078
> 
> 
> You know I haven't been seeing much if any streaking lately Mike to be honest with you. I think most of the streaking was attributed to the NEC switcher I was using. Not that it is gone 100% it's just pretty rare when it does happen........ I'll keep an eye out for you and let you know.



A cleaner source would diminish it greatly, and that's why you may not notice it.


We've already started on the G90 neck board mods, and also went after the streaking problem.



These shots (below) are from that same not-calibrated and and only center converged G90 that sits on a cart below my Marquee pointed to my screen. It is now fully modified that includes BA board, CRT driver boards and CRT socket boards. I'm using the same noise lowering changes I've made to my Marquees neck boards. In the process, I'm hoping I've also done away with the streaking. The image is VERY sharp and VERY intense. The bias adjustments had to be significantly lowered after the changes. The entire black level or low end performance is radically changed.


The shots can reveal a lot, but you would have to see this in action to understand what it looks like. and you will have an opportunity to see it in action, because If you're able to make it to Craig's next month, I'll be visiting him, and at that same time or there after, you should be able to see these changes yourself. I'm thinking around the second week in March.


The image is SUPER SHARP and CLEAN, VERY robust and BRIGHT. This is no doubt my best work so far..









 


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## mp20748

More Super clean images from the G90..










still trying to find any streaking. None so far


 


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## lewis

No streaking there!! Nice work Mike.


With the BA mods alone the streaking would be clearly evident, emanating from the fluorescent tubes against the black background. Easiest scenes to evaluate the problem are scrolling white text credits at the end of a movie.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/21615374
> 
> 
> No streaking there!! Nice work Mike.



I'm still doing everything to make it show up. As much as I do this kind of stuff, I'm really having a hard time believing the streaking is gone. I'm thinking I'm missing something, though at this point I believe I've done everything to make it show.


The thing I've been more focused on over the past few days is the huge improvement in gamma performance. The G90 is operating fully from its internal gamma chip circuit. And that same circuit is making a very dynamic gamma improvement after the changes that have been made. Just look at the last group of shots that I posted. There are almost NO dark areas or crevices in the scenes, and it's very representative of what I'm seeing on the screen itself. The images are very bright, sharp and crystal clear. And to add to that, it has exceptional gamma performance with no gamma at all from the source devices (Moome/BR).


Also, even when I had the Top Lumagen Video Processor on my Marquee, I did not get this bright and through a window effect like I'm seeing on this G90. I have to wait and see what Craig has to say once he checks this out, because I made sure I did not have the bias or gain too high, or the brightness level too high. I made sure the screen went completely black and that the contrast was on blast.



And I'm still using the same camera with the exact same 'Point and Shoot' settings as previously used in my other shots.


I'll do another round of shots tonight, and will post them here, but will focus and converge it this time. I'll use the exact same camera and settings and will show how well that simple camera will capture complete black and at the same time show illumination in normally dark areas that I was never able show before.


That gamma chip/circuit in the G90 is something I will for sure be trying to put into my Marquee.


----------



## mp20748

A few more.


wasn't able to get back to the projector yesterday, nor was I able to dial things in better yesterday. So I fired it up again this morning a took a few shots with a little ambient light in the room.


These tree shots were taking with the contrast set at *85* and I also noticed that I could ramp the contrast up to *MAX* without any noticeable blooming. This is much like what happens on my Marquee with the higher contrast headroom before blooming. Which is the best rule for knowing you have a very low noise floor video chain.


Oh and before I forget, I'm not selling or doing these mods. They are being turned over to someone else. I'm just having fun playing with the projector and posting a few shots from time to time.


These shots are low light dark area scenes where you can see the light coming from a left or right direction.

 


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## mp20748

A few more after a one hour tweating. Wish I had more time, though I find a lot of good things about the G90, there's plenty to not like about what's in the menu and how it all works.


And because of the weird way you have to converge, I was not able to do a much better converge, especially on the Blue.



 


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## mp20748

A few more still totally right from the camera:


 


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## mp20748

since I was not able to duplicate the streaking problem on this G90. Craig said it shows better on a black object or square on a full white. He also sent me a the test patterns he uses for this test.


I took screenshots of both patterns that I downloaded on a memory stick to USB on my BR player.


Still cannot see the streaking, and what I am able to see very cluseup on the screen itself, looks very similar to what the same pattern shows on my Marquee... still can't duplicate the streaking!!


 


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## overclkr

Mike,


I am sure I can reproduce it. If I remember correctly, my David Gilmour BD streaks. Let me pop it in and take a look.......


I dont see any streaking in those shots though.


Those shots looking good bro!


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21641837
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> I am sure I can reproduce it. If I remember correctly, my David Gilmour BD streaks. Let me pop it in and take a look.......
> 
> 
> I dont see any streaking in those shots though.
> 
> 
> Those shots looking good bro!



Cliff,

The Pulp Fiction shots are too good to be true; I need to come out and see for myself.










Reagrding the David Gilmour and streaking, did you find where it is? I'd like to know as I would like to see on my unit as well.


wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/21656855
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> The Pulp Fiction shots are too good to be true; I need to come out and see for myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagrding the David Gilmour and streaking, did you find where it is? I'd like to know as I would like to see on my unit as well.
> 
> 
> wallace



I was too damn lazy to look lol. Here is tonights shots.


----------



## AFryia

Humble 8" G70 screen shots re-sized 3:1










Screen shot photo courtesy of Z_Photo










Screen shot photo courtesy of Z_Photo


----------



## mp20748

Now back to the Marquee... I'll get back to the G90 later sometime, when I can get it back to the memory I had it operating on.


But for now, I'm warming and doing a little tweak-up on my Marquee.


Wish I had more BR, so have to go with what i have already until NetFlix puts the next one in the mail.



 


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can Kev come out and play?


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21662586
> 
> 
> I was too damn lazy to look lol. Here is tonights shots.



Wow, Cliff, those colors are just dazzling, the transparency is breathtaking! Compliments to Ken.


What movie is that?


b


----------



## Mr Bob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AFryia* /forum/post/21664134
> 
> 
> Humble 8" G70 screen shots re-sized 3:1
> 
> 
> 
> Screen shot photo courtesy of Z_Photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screen shot photo courtesy of Z_Photo



Great! "Silky smooth", as the Zohan would say! Fixed pixel can eat their hearts out -


b


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr Bob* /forum/post/21667906
> 
> 
> Wow, Cliff, those colors are just dazzling, the transparency is breathtaking! Compliments to Ken.
> 
> 
> What movie is that?
> 
> 
> b



It's Speed Racer









Ken Whitcomb actually recalibrated the stack over the weekend. What an amazing job he did. My gamma is a bit shallow right now, but everything else turned out pretty much spot on!


This setup is simply unreal since the upgrades. I didn't even think it would be as good as it is now. Just breath taking to be honest.........


----------



## EJ

I sporadically follow this thread, although I haven't had a CRT since I sold my humble Sony 1252 in '04. Cliff, when you say "stack", is that 2 projectors with 1 image overlapping the other, or is it "blended"? Do you have any pics of your setup...and what do you do about fan noise?


Excuse the obvious questions.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EJ* /forum/post/21674944
> 
> 
> I sporadically follow this thread, although I haven't had a CRT since I sold my humble Sony 1252 in '04. Cliff, when you say "stack", is that 2 projectors with 1 image overlapping the other, or is it "blended"? Do you have any pics of your setup...and what do you do about fan noise?
> 
> 
> Excuse the obvious questions.



Yes I have 2 G90's that overlap. No blends here. I do not feel it is needed. I fan modded both of my G90's when I retubed recently and it is extremely quiet in my room now. I have pictures but cannot post tonight will post soon for you though.......


----------



## EJ

How much drift do you have? I found one 1252 needed at least weekly tweaking. Six tubes must be a challenge.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EJ* /forum/post/21675108
> 
> 
> How much drift do you have? I found one 1252 needed at least weekly tweaking. Six tubes must be a challenge.



Nah, not at all. The Geometry pretty much stays solid, it's the static I have to touch up and it's roughly 3 minutes when needed. I really don't have to do much tweaking to be honest. It's the initial setup that knocks you on your rear


----------



## Mr Bob

Aw Cliff, now don't be shy...!












It's easy for 2 identical projectors to need different care and feeding as time progresses, all based on the initial calibration and/or those that follow. If one is set up with everything hovering around its registers' midpoints, there will be next to no drift over time.


If however the other one - same identical set - was set up with all sorts of mismatching between points, those points will be constantly fighting each other, and drift is just the tip of the iceberg as to how badly it will handle rendition of pic. All this also applies to the image quality in real time, not just whether it will drift over time.


Cliff has a ceiling-level enclosure for his twin G90s, and just saying they _overlap_ is demure of Cliff, but it is not doing nearly enough justice to the amount of work that has to go into the whole thing to get it to the level Cliff runs it at every day. As on a single projector all points and the geometry and everything else must be first dialed in like nobody's biz, which Ken is a long time expert at. First the focusing has to be dialed in superbly on all 6 guns and then balanced optically edge to center, with the electronic focus optimized as well on all 6. Then astigmatism has to be dialed in and any error neutralized, and same treatment with sheimpflug, which is the horizontal and vertical angle of *each* of the 6 lenses in a double stack.


Then the green has to be set up properly on the first projector, and the red and blue dialed in to superimpose properly on top of the green, pretty much everywhere on the screen, not just here or there. Paying special attention not just to the middle area, as would happen with a blend, but the entire picture, end to end, top to bottom.


Then the *entire* second projector's image has to be superimposed on top of the *entire* first projector's image, all across the screen. To a gnat's eyebrow, as you can see from the stealth grade image Ken delivered and which Cliff is used to and enjoys every day. That's his everyday double stack. Ken often calibrates a triple stack for Cliff, whenever Cliff has a 3rd G90 to use for it, and you should see *THOSE* screenshots! What was it, Cliff, 525,000:1 contrast ratio? I thought I was looking at an OLED display!


Believe me, Cliff is one spoiled puppy...(cop to it, Cliff...)











Then there's the grayscale, the colorations, the brightness/contrast/sharpness levels...


I am sure it took Ken all day on that picture, if not including an overnight!


Again, great job on that incredible pic! Kudos to Ken -


Mr Bob


----------



## overclkr

245 green gain baby! BURN EM UP!!!!!!! Heck, I'll have another green retube before this love affair is over fo sho!!!!!!!










Oh and yes, 100% MEASURED 500,000 to one ON/OFF with the triple stack. Boy was that a lot of work!


Thanks for the wonderful post Bob!


----------



## Ile




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21641059
> 
> 
> Still cannot see the streaking, and what I am able to see very cluseup on the screen itself, looks very similar to what the same pattern shows on my Marquee... still can't duplicate the streaking!!



Not sure what kind streaking you are looking for, but I see white overshoot (elevated white after black object) on those both pics, but it's very mild and bright white masks it nicely.










I brought your pictures brightness down to prove I'm not mad.










Black level elevation after white object kind of streaking is much more distracting.


----------



## lewis

What does a white square on a black screen look like?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ile* /forum/post/21685877
> 
> 
> Not sure what kind streaking you are looking for, but I see white overshoot (elevated white after black object) on those both pics, but it's very mild and bright white masks it nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I brought your pictures brightness down to prove I'm not mad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black level elevation after white object kind of streaking is much more distracting.



That looks really great. But I have to disagree with you on it being streaking, simply because the smear diminishes to the right. Streaking is always consistent to the right of the object.


However, diminishing represents a lack of speed or not-so-good rise/fall performance.


Also, that should be expected of any CRT projector, especially since the G90 is running at 1920x1080P 60hz. That G90 much like the others, is not capable of resolving that scan rate without leaving a trail behind the scan.


I took the same shot of my Marquee, and it also has the same trail...


I took one also of the exact same image, same everything (Blu-Ray player memory stick image) directly into the projector. My Marquee is much faster, so do your thing on this shot and let's see what happens. And so that you'll know, my Marque does not streak..










 


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## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21685329
> 
> 
> 245 green gain baby! BURN EM UP!!!!!!! Heck, I'll have another green retube before this love affair is over fo sho!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and yes, 100% MEASURED 500,000 to one ON/OFF with the triple stack. Boy was that a lot of work!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the wonderful post Bob!



Ahhh,yes................. Been there and saw that bad boy (triple stack) in action.


To be honest, I thought that we measured it higher than that (that was after Ken dozed off







). I could swear, but I thought that some other folks over in the other forums were actually thinking that it was too high.










wallace


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

I finally got around to doing the convergence and color balance on my Marquee. It's also time to button it back up, so I'll be doing a complete setup/cal after that.


The following shots are from the Blu Ray: The Fighter


Full 1080P and directly into the Marquee (Moome card).
 


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## kafkacell

One month ago I bought this awesome Toshiba (got it almost for free). It works great, but off course since I live overseas I think calibrating/cleaning this beast is almost impossible.


I hooked up my laptop with S-Video cable and took this screenshot from "Moneyball". I have directv and the image quality seems to be not so good (just my opinion).


Last weekend a couple of friends came to watch a movie with us and I connected my PC through DVI cable and got the best resolution that this HDTV can give (1080i). The images at 1920 x 1080 were amazing. Later I will do it again and will take some pictures.


My camera is point and shoot but at least I'd like to know if you guys can notice if this CRT HDTV need some cleaning or calibration.


----------



## lewis

^^^Raster, is that you??


----------



## Mr Bob

The most noticeable thing the Tosh 46" needs is optics cleaning. There are 28 surfaces in there that comprise the light path, and 10 of those get incredibly dirty over the years from the 30KV turning the set into a gigantic ionizer, sucking all contaminants out of the air every minute it's on and making them stick to - you guessed it, the mirror and lenses! Your air in there is always incredibly clean because the optical surfaces are always getting plastered with the airborne contaminants. The result after a couple of years is a bleary, undynamic picture, devoid of any and all dynamic punch. One that can become pure and sweet and look like new again in a day, with the proper attention. Full of dynamic punch, glisten, and fully restored contrast ratio.


If you want it done right, contact me and we'll set up a phone appointment. It will take about an hour.


Many phases of the calibration process are doable by you, the owner, even if you live in another country. Just please, I encourage you to not try to find the right information about optics cleaning on the net, as the internet has it all - the good, the bad and the downright ugly. Your optics are made of fine, soft plastic and are highly vulnerable to being scratched. Or scuffed, which is thousands of tiny scratches at once. One false move and there's permanent damage that is irreversible.


I am available if you want to get it done right, I have been doing CRT RPTV optics cleaning for over 20 years, since long before HD. One owner in Texas spent hour after hour with me on the phone, we chalked up 4 hours over a couple of days! Then he had me in anyway to complete his cal, when I was in his area.


Please contact me, these "old" CRT RPTVs are not old, they are only midway thru their 20 year service life! Keep them young.


Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

A few more before warm-up shots of the same movie.


Tried lowering the exposure on the camera this time.


 


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## Wild54Pe

it against two G90's in a stack... [URL='http:/jie2.jpg%5B/img']http://*******************/jie2.jpg[/img[/URL] ]

[img] [URL='http:/jie3.jpg%5B/img']http://*******************/jie3.jpg[/img[/URL] ]

[img] [URL='http:/jie1.jpg%5B/img']http://*******************/jie1.jpg[/img[/URL] ]


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## mp20748

  


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## MV_Cinema




mp20748 said:


> A few more before warm-up shots of the same movie.
> 
> 
> Tried lowering the exposure on the camera this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Those shoots are horrible. What projector are you using?
> 
> Hey don't get me wrong, but the JVC DLA X90R kicks it out....easy! CRT is past...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21760085
> 
> 
> Those shoots are horrible. What projector are you using?
> 
> Hey don't get me wrong, but the JVC DLA X90R kicks it out....easy! CRT is past...



Great, so are you going to BRING IT, using that JVC X90R...


----------



## MV_Cinema

If you speak about a Cine 9, well calibrated, well...it might be in pair with the JVC, but a Marquee? I don't think so...

I don't need to put pictures, you have pictures posted before here in this topic.

And don't get me wrong, i am not here to judge other's equipment, this is only my opinion.

We all have to buy what we like the most right


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21760346
> 
> 
> If you speak about a Cine 9, well calibrated, well...it might be in pair with the JVC, but a Marquee? I don't think so...
> 
> I don't need to put pictures, you have pictures posted before here in this topic.
> 
> And don't get me wrong, i am not here to judge other's equipment, this is only my opinion.
> 
> We all have to buy what we like the most right



I bought what I like the most










It's not a JVC, Barco, or a Marquee


----------



## MV_Cinema

That G90 rocks...









Love it...


But i bet you are an expert in calibration


----------



## cinema mad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/21674749
> 
> 
> It's Speed Racer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb actually recalibrated the stack over the weekend. What an amazing job he did. My gamma is a bit shallow right now, but everything else turned out pretty much spot on!
> 
> 
> This setup is simply unreal since the upgrades. I didn't even think it would be as good as it is now. Just breath taking to be honest.........



Glad to hear that your extremely happy with your latest setup, even better than you expected this time round







, That Screen shot your refering to looks almost 3D Cliff, simply Amazing..



Know doubt it helps A little having the best people in the World performing there respective talents on THE STACK!!! you lucky bugger







..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MV_Cinema* /forum/post/21760346
> 
> *And don't get me wrong, i am not here to judge other's equipment, this is only my opinion.*
> 
> We all have to buy what we like the most right



are you contradicting yourself here..










With your previous comment (that was supposed to have not been a judgement on someones equipment), I was hoping you would bring something yourself to the thread. Hopefully from that JVC you mentioned. And if you were gearing up to make that happen, then I'll stop posting random and various "quick and dirty" shots, that were also taking with ambient light in the room and before warm-up. In other words, they were taking on purpose..










But since my setup has been judged, or at least my shots have, I'll set things up for a tighter round of shots later this week... I was really hoping I could get someone with a digital to chime in here with some really good stuff, but that did not happen, so I'll just have to go it alone.


Where's Kevin... can't even get him to take my bait anymore..


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinema mad* /forum/post/21763516
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that your extremely happy with your latest setup, even better than you expected this time round
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , That Screen shot your refering to looks almost 3D Cliff, simply Amazing..
> 
> 
> 
> Know doubt it helps A little having the best people in the World performing there respective talents on THE STACK!!! you lucky bugger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..



I know right!!!! I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky and FORTUNATE to have the best of the best laying there hands on "the setup".










and to think I'm on my 6th year of ownership! One of the G90's have 20K hours now!


----------



## Mr Bob

Mezmerizing, Cliff. Between that and your gorgeous wife, how do you get any work done?











b


----------



## mp20748

I'm bak..











 


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## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

Pure untouched 1080P!

 


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## overclkr

Looking good Mike!


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## mp20748

  


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## mandarax

wow this thread uses up more bandwidth than I am suppose to be allowed in a month. Great pics and I am lovin that G90 stack.


----------



## mp20748

  


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## Kevin 3000

JVC RS65 Cinema 1 preset - still not calirated, OOTB settings.










G90 Stack


----------



## mp20748

What movie is those shots from, and where is the scene?


----------



## kal

Mike: That would be Pulp Fiction. It's in the 3rd scene (out of 7) called "Vincent Vega and Marsellus Wallace's Wife" (John Travolta and Uma Thurman) go out on a date to Jack Rabbit Slim's restaurant/diner.


It's about a third of the way through the movie I'd suspect.


Kal


----------



## AmuroITA

Dear Kevin 3000,

if you may accept my comment... your choice of comparison is somewhat unfair because the screenshot is obviously not in focus because the camera and not cause the focus of the projector. If you compare the other G90's images you'll see the difference and less than what you expect. Also from my experience the perception of the definition of a crt 9 "LC is not less than that of a digital .... indeed for me to the CRT is also superior ..... and not only in that area of the viewing pleasure.


A CRT fan!


----------



## neverfaithful

My Sony KDL-55NX720:


----------



## VPH-G90

LOL KEVIN3000, i know JVC and i can tell you you've got more sharpness.

Please let sharpness on your player and JVC to "0".

After we will look that your JVC will not to be good.


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies from my 9500.


 


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## ElTopo

@Kevin 3000: G90 is really filmlike. Also ist seems that the JVC cannot do pitch black!


----------



## sytech

Some nice shots here.


----------



## Kend4erMe

I'm definitely going to find some time this weekend with the camera. Anyone game????


[URL='http:/zhu3.jpg%5B/img']http://*********************/zhu3.jpg[/img[/URL] ]

[img] [URL='http:/zhu2.jpg%5B/img']http://*********************/zhu2.jpg[/img[/URL] ]

[img] [URL='http:/zhu4.jpg%5B/img']http://*********************/zhu4.jpg[/img[/URL] ]

[img] [URL='http:/zhu1.jpg%5B/img']http://*********************/zhu1.jpg[/img[/URL] ]


----------



## Ericglo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo* /forum/post/21863075
> 
> 
> @Kevin 3000: G90 is really filmlike. Also ist seems that the JVC cannot do pitch black!



No, but the JVC comes the closest of all the digitals to pitch black. I am not sure if any digital will ever be able to perform pitch black. I think the best hope for digital might be an iris on a LCOS chip.


----------



## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

A few more quickies, after a few more tweaks also to the low end.


Raw 1080P - CRT

 


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## mp20748

  


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## Thupdhon

Frame central on shaw cable


Epson 3010, pictures taken with iPhone 4


----------



## mp20748

Pure 1080P and CRT...

 


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## cencio

Sorry Mike,

but what movies are the last pictures?

And then: in your own forum you posted this screenshot test












You told that it is on the Fifth Element when push 7669 and enter when the disc loading but I have the european version region 2 of this movie.

Is it the same way?


Many thanks


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio* /forum/post/21952760
> 
> 
> Sorry Mike,
> 
> but what movies are the last pictures?
> 
> And then: in your own forum you posted this screenshot test



The Blu Ray is: INSIDE JOB


I really don't know if the Sony Disk concealed test pattern will work with region 2. I have no way of checking that out.


----------



## mp20748

  


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## ciccio1112

Photos taken from the trailers of Samsara.


Images made ​​with iphone4 resized to 1024x768.


JVC RS45 with ultra HTPC.










 


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## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/21952802
> 
> 
> The Blu Ray is: INSIDE JOB
> 
> 
> I really don't know if the Sony Disk concealed test pattern will work with region 2. I have no way of checking that out.



Vincenzo,


I believe it exists on most recent Sony Blu-rays. I know that it definitely is on the Casino Royale European Blu-ray. I think you have to go to the audio settings menu and input the code (which spells out SONY by the way) and press enter.


Nicholas


----------



## cencio

Some pictures from "IL GATTOPARDO" movie.

RAW converted in JPEG.


----------



## mp20748

  


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## mp20748

  


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## Mr Bob

Cenzio -


Try larger pictures! Would love to climb between the lines of the detail in your pix -


b


----------



## nashou66




----------



## VPH-G90

I ve modified my G90 with 3 P19 LUG, optical HQF900, moome card HDMI V2 with radiance XS+.

I've mesured my *contrast ON/OFF at 1 280 000:1* with the window test pattern (100 IRE)


My resolution is *1920x817p96 Hz*


----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## VPH-G90




----------



## nashou66

Simply amazing!!!!


Nashou


----------



## kal

Wow. Very nice indeed VPH-G90 (cedric). Can you tell us a bit about how you take these photos? (I'm a bit of a photo nut too with a Canon DSLR with L-lenses and shoot all RAW).


Kal


----------



## HiDef Lover

May I ask where these images are captured from?


----------



## neonsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HiDef Lover* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> May I ask where these images are captured from?



A smokin hot G90.


----------



## mp20748

A few more quickies...


Full 1920x1080P into my 9500LC Ultra...
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kal* /forum/post/22078387
> 
> 
> Wow. Very nice indeed VPH-G90 (cedric). Can you tell us a bit about how you take these photos? (I'm a bit of a photo nut too with a Canon DSLR with L-lenses and shoot all RAW).
> 
> 
> Kal



Hi Kal, I use a canon powershot A610 with 5 mega pixel.

I do white Balance to 40 IRE.


pause time varies from 0.8 sec to 6 sec for these screenshots


the resolution on My G90 is 1920x817p96 Hz and contrast on/off mesured at 1 280 000:1

Cédric


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HiDef Lover* /forum/post/22084024
> 
> 
> May I ask where these images are captured from?



I found these pictures on the internet


----------



## kal

Excellent shots. Just goes to show that you don't need fancy camera equipment, you just need to know how to use it.


Kal


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90* /forum/post/22098759
> 
> 
> I found these pictures on the internet



Absolutely stunning shots. Time to let you take over this thread and teach Mike a few things lol.
























JUST KIDDING MIKE!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/22101165
> 
> 
> Absolutely stunning shots. Time to let you take over this thread and teach Mike a few things lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JUST KIDDING MIKE!



Yeah Cliff, I'm bowing down as I type..

















I'm too lazy to look for shots on the internet to keep up. So I'll stay with the film based natural looking stuff, but will increase showing more finer detail clarity through out the image shots. I'm even too lazy to tweak my shots..










Now I have to wait for my next Netflix Blu ray, and try to show more HD stuff. But I' just want everybody to know that I'm not bothered at all that I never took the crown or won the war here...







...







....



















Good seeing you post again dude. Hope all is good with you and yours, and by all means, post a shot or more here to let us know you're still out and the stack is still doing its thing. I'll call you this weekend.


----------



## ElTopo

Amazing !


CRT is still the King


----------



## Kevin 3000

G90 new Lugs 1.3Million CR

















JVC RS65


----------



## ElTopo

Thanks Kevin.


The G90 shot looks much more realistic to me. The JVC more like a Photoshop pic with too much sharpening.


ElTopo


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElTopo*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22136400
> 
> 
> Thanks Kevin.
> 
> The G90 shot looks much more realistic to me. *The JVC more like a Photoshop pic with too much sharpening*.
> 
> ElTopo



Almost Every image that Kev does a comparison of, is computer generated and clearly shows "sharpening" but these same kinds of images seem to be what all the hype is about. The same is true for some of the other shots in this thread.


Not sure why computer generated shots are even being used for reference, because there are NO elements of natural in them. It's also easy to "Photoshop" (enhance, sharpen, tweak) computer generated shots, mainly because most never saw a camera, and the ones that did involve a camera, it was not a second process as what is done when actual movies are transferred to Blu Ray. and since there are no natural elements, trees, flesh tones, complexions, background detail, etc. how would one know when it looks like the real thing?


And with all of the computer generated shots, not one of them really show any bandwidth challenges, which is what makes a difference with High Definition reproduction. Flesh tones, range of colors, finer detail and various shades of low end performance should be the real challenges, but since there's no real performance rules on the table, its fine to go with anything that sharp, bright and colorful.


I'm still waiting on Kev to get back to posting film or natural based comparisons..


----------



## Kevin 3000

Look a little closer at the fur if any sharpening is applied to JVC the fur would look unnatural

The differences you are seeing is down to the 2k-4k settings.

The face detail and under the neck in the CRT pic shows added sharpening to me anyways.


Link to image used
http://static.nextwallpapers.com/1920x1200/digital_leopard_1920x1200.jpg 


Just incase others want to show how it should look on their modded CRT`s


Wait a minute that was a fully modded CRT so it must be STACK time or naybe not ran off with tail between his legs last month


You all should get yourselves a Darbee Vision Darblet to give this JVC a bit of competition


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22137883
> 
> 
> 
> Just incase others want to show how it should look on their modded CRT`s



Or you could post shots taking of NATURAL stuff, like real (not computer generated) people to include other NATURAL things like trees and nature scenes. You know something that a person would already have a frame of reference.


When you get away from posting those very low resolution shots of artificial things and are able to post shots showing TRUE film class images, its then that I'll look forward to seeing your shots, and will also then blow away any non-artificial shot you post..


----------



## VPH-G90

Kevin thanks for your screenshot in comparison with mine I realized that there was a display error (actual size display mode and not full screen on my PC for projection on my G90). The consequence is that my screenshots is less sharp than yours.

I will make new screenshots and compare it with yours.


----------



## VPH-G90

ok kevin !


this is original to 1024 pixel











My new screenshot with G90











Your screenshot with JVC RS65












My camera is bad, I had to lower the G90's gamma for this screenshot.


----------



## VPH-G90

On my screenshot the black is bad because i had to lower gamma. in reality the black is... black.

JVC can't reach 1.3 million CR.

Even with the option motion flow JVC may not have as good fluidity in the image that the G90 at 96 Hz


And sorry kevin my screenshot is not improved, just resize at 1024 pixel, I did not cheat !


----------



## kal

Regarding the 1.3 million : 1 contrast ratio ... How are you measuring your light output? What equipment are you using?


Contrast ratio is the ratio of light output when black is shown, compared to when white is shown. To measure you put up a 100% black field, measure light output, then a 100% white field, and re-measure.


As the black light output level approaches zero, the contrast ratio approaches infinity. Since CRT projectors can be set up to do 100% true blacks (where you don't see your hand in front of your face) if you set the brightness too low and/or have the tube bias (G2) set too low, just about any CRT projector can be set up to get a measurable contrast ratio of near infinity. Not really a useful number.


Does that mean it looks good? Not necessarily. You're likely crushing blacks and losing detail. Even if you use a 20-step parametric gamma adjustment like found on the Lumagen Radiance video processor to come out of black slightly faster than normal, you may still be crushing detail slightly. Best to set up a CRT projector such that black isn't 100% black. Do just a bit more. If you can't see your hand in front of your face with a 100% black pattern, it's most likely too low.


The other issue that few meters can properly read light output levels at the extreme lowest output. Most tri-stimulus colorimeters will not do a great job at such low output levels and give erratic results. All spectroradiometers most certainly are not up to the task. You really need to a use light meter (illuminance meter). Luckily they're fairly inexpensive. They're used by photographers mostly (and display calibrators who want to provide accurate contrast ratio numbers...







).


The other important thing to consider is that true 100% blacks are not required for a good image quality. As mentioned above, you don't need black so black that you can't see your hand in front of your face. Go back 10 years ago and that was the one thing that people used to brag about with their CRT projectors... but most people probably had them improperly set up and were losing detail by crushing blacks. Advanced (parametric) gamma control is a fairly new thing. It used to be that we only had a single dial to control how fast we came out of black. With something like that it's fairly impossible to get 100% true black and proper gamma all the way down to black.


IMHO, once a digital projector can do blacks that are black "enough" to appear black, it is good enough and you don't mind looking at the image. Then ANSI contrast ratio (aka 'inter-scene contrast ratio') becomes much more important for proper image quality. This is the contrast ratio between black and white while both are shown on the screen at the same time. Many will tell you that ANSI contrast ratio is considerably more critical to image quality. If the projector can do adequate blacks (the JVC RS series does this well) then I tend agree: ANSI is more important. Most digitals do ANSI a *LOT* better than any CRT.


Where CRT can often really shine is on a average low light output (APL) scene where everything is dark. If brightness and gamma are perfectly set up you'll get a lot of detail. Almost 3D like and mesmerizing. Throw up one bright spot on the screen however and it'll wash out the rest quite a bit more than with a digital. That's just the nature of the technologies at play.


I like both technologies. I own a Barco Cine 8 Onyx "clone" projector which was well set up and provided fantastic image quality, especially with these darker, lower light output scenes. (One of the reasons I was always a Barco fan). It's being replaced by a JVC RS55 in the next month or two however and I look forward to better image quality in some aspects and possible lesser image quality in others. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Apples and Oranges.


Kal


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22137883
> 
> 
> Wait a minute that was a fully modded CRT so it must be STACK time or naybe not ran off with tail between his legs last month
> 
> You all should get yourselves a Darbee Vision Darblet to give this JVC a bit of competition



Your a total f'ing moron and an idiot at the same time. I didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. I'm using a 7 year old camera to take my shots which is not even representive of what is actually being projected by the stack. Heck the camera even has "dead pixels". I am also traveling a lot these days and working lots of hours so my time to do "leisurely" things has been limited, and doing things like spending time with my wife and kids when I am in town is much more important to me.


Once again Mr. Moron posting digital shots in a CRT THREAD, BRING THAT JVC OVER TO MY HOUSE AND WE WILL SEE WHICH SETUP IS REALLY BETTER.


Oh yeah, thats right, I've invited you several times to watch your JVC get spanked, but nope, you still ignore it.


Not to mention, 3D also SUCKS on the JVC as well as motion. Anytime your ready, bring it on! I'lll be more than glad to host and I will even provide dinner and drinks!


What a tool.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22150102
> 
> 
> Your a total f'ing moron and an idiot at the same time. I didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. I'm using a 7 year old camera to take my shots which is not even representive of what is actually being projected by the stack. Heck the camera even has "dead pixels". I am also traveling a lot these days and working lots of hours so my time to do "leisurely" things has been limited, and doing things like spending time with my wife and kids when I am in town is much more important to me.
> 
> Once again Mr. Moron posting digital shots in a CRT THREAD, BRING THAT JVC OVER TO MY HOUSE AND WE WILL SEE WHICH SETUP IS REALLY BETTER.
> 
> Oh yeah, thats right, I've invited you several times to watch your JVC get spanked, but nope, you still ignore it.
> 
> Not to mention, 3D also SUCKS on the JVC as well as motion. Anytime your ready, bring it on! I'lll be more than glad to host and I will even provide dinner and drinks!
> 
> What a tool.



Sad!!


----------



## VPH-G90

Thank you Kal for precision.

This is my luxmeter (PCE L100 precision 0.001 lux)













I measured one meter in front of the projector.. The G90 is calibrated D65 gamut SMPTE-C gamma 2.4.


I realize a lot of calibration in France


I think my measurement procedure are good


In October i receive my spectroradiometer photo research RP 670.


Cedric


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22150358
> 
> 
> Sad!!



Sad? No not at all. I'm sure everyone else is also wondering why your even here in the first place. But that's ok Kevin, I understand that this is the best reply you can come up with with your limited ability.


Anytime your ready, the offer stands. Matter of fact I'll even let you take the screenshots!


What an absolute FAIL.


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22151141
> 
> 
> This is my luxmeter (PCE L100 precision 0.001 lux)
> 
> I measured one meter in front of the projector.. The G90 is calibrated D65 gamut SMPTE-C gamma 2.4.
> 
> I realize a lot of calibration in France
> 
> I think my measurement procedure are good
> 
> In October i receive my spectroradiometer photo research RP 670.


Impressive. Sounds like you really know what you're doing Cedric!


Kal


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr

Interesting Camera. This is the Nikon D5000. It actually captures the scan frequency. Interesting.


I have much work ahead of me to figure this one out. Taken by hand.


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22179511
> 
> 
> Interesting Camera. This is the Nikon D5000. It actually captures the scan frequency. Interesting.
> 
> I have much work ahead of me to figure this one out. Taken by hand.



Cliff, try setting your camera's shutter speed yo match the refresh rate of the video signal. If you are displaying [email protected] set the shutter speed to 1/60th of a second. That should help you get a screenshot without the banding from the scan frequency.

Let me know if you need any more help. I am familiar with Nikon DSLR's.


Nicholas


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *napos*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5310#post_22210185
> 
> 
> Cliff, try setting your camera's shutter speed yo match the refresh rate of the video signal. If you are displaying [email protected] set the shutter speed to 1/60th of a second. That should help you get a screenshot without the banding from the scan frequency.
> 
> Let me know if you need any more help. I am familiar with Nikon DSLR's.
> 
> Nicholas



Awesome thanks Nicholas! Will give that a shot soon and come back with some more pics


----------



## ImaStar

A few shots from my G70


----------



## overclkr

Whats up bitches?


----------



## napos

Hi Cliff, how's it going with the Nikon? Everything OK?


----------



## ElTopo

Trying some shots with this soon

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/g5/index.html 



ElTopo


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *napos*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_22476310
> 
> 
> Hi Cliff, how's it going with the Nikon? Everything OK?



I have to be honest, I have not had any time to actually sit down with this thing but I have to admit, with the bit of over exposure, that shot looks awesome










Maybe we can arrange sometime to chat on the phone and you can go over the camera with me?


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_22485615
> 
> 
> I have to be honest, I have not had any time to actually sit down with this thing but I have to admit, with the bit of over exposure, that shot looks awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we can arrange sometime to chat on the phone and you can go over the camera with me?



No problem. Just remember that I am in Greece and we are 8 hours ahead of Central time. Feel free to call me. My number is 011 30 6945 437461.

Talk to you soon,


Nicholas


----------



## jamhdit

Where can I get a blu ray copy of the movie " home"


I saw some screen shots on a different thread and just got to see that on my screen


John


----------



## mp20748

Yo Kev.. now that I got your attention, I have 8 shots here and I want you to do your thing (mimic) with each of them. Now here's what you have to do, you have to do each one of these. Not just a few or one or two. I need you to do them all.


Pure and Natural 1920x1080P


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23074735
> 
> 
> Yo Kev.. now that I got your attention, I have 8 shots here and I want you to do your thing (mimic) with each of them. Now here's what you have to do, you have to do each one of these. Not just a few or one or two. I need you to do them all.


If you expect someone to do this you need to give them the name of the movie and the exact times to use so that they can mimic your shots. Otherwise someone has to try and figure out what the movie is and watch the whole thing while remembering exactly what your 8 shots were. Not really plausible.


> Quote:
> Pure and Natural 1920x1080P


Your screenshots are 1600x1200.


Kal


----------



## mp20748

Kevin already knows what movie it is and where these scenes are on the Blu Ray, that's why it was addressed to him.


The reference to the resolution was referring to the projectors resolution, not the camera. And we're not trying to capture pixel by pixel with the camera, nor are our eyes 1920x1080P.


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC
 

CRT
 

JVC
 

CRT
 

JVC
 

CRT


----------



## mp20748

Here's what you do Kev. Don't downsize or touch my images in any way. Take your shots at the same camera resolution (1600X1200).


And next, stop sharpening your shots... Can you not tell your shots are being over sharpened still?


Also, when you re-sized my shots they lost a fair amount of sharpness.



So can you redo what you've done at the same camera resolution , and not re-size my shots or touch them in any way other than to copy for comparison.




And don't forget to do the other shots as well..


----------



## mp20748

I copied one of your shots from the digital forum to show the sharpness of your shots when posted over there:


 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/935620/show-us-your-screenshots/2850


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23077455
> 
> 
> And next, stop sharpening your shots... Can you not tell your shots are being over sharpened still?


Unless you're shooting in RAW format and creating the JPGs yourself with separate software, *ALL* digital cameras have built in sharpening. There is absolutely no way around it since it's required. If you do shoot RAW and create your own JPGs you add sharpening after. It's not bad thing. It's required. So your camera is doing sharpening as well Mike. To say "don't sharpen" isn't possible, or even logical. It's not a film camera. There is an immense amount of processing done in all digital cameras. There's no way to turn it "off" even if you think you are.


Kal


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23077455
> 
> 
> Here's what you do Kev. Don't downsize or touch my images in any way. Take your shots at the same camera resolution (1600X1200).
> 
> 
> And next, stop sharpening your shots... Can you not tell your shots are being over sharpened still?
> 
> 
> Also, when you re-sized my shots they lost a fair amount of sharpness.
> 
> 
> 
> So can you redo what you've done at the same camera resolution , and not re-size my shots or touch them in any way other than to copy for comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And don't forget to do the other shots as well..



Tried to show like for like photobucket compresses my pics to 1024x768.

I can lower the cameras sharpening but the PJ is on 0 sharpening.


No quick and dirty pics in this thread.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23078862
> 
> 
> Tried to show like for like photobucket compresses my pics to 1024x768.
> 
> I can lower the cameras sharpening but the PJ is on 0 sharpening.
> 
> 
> No quick and dirty pics in this thread.



If your shots are done at 1024x768, then I should either also use that resolution or you come up to 1600x1200. When i use 1600x1200 I give up some sharpness for the larger image.


When you put my shots through photo bucket it affects the resolution and that causes the shots to be softer.


So a fair comparison would need to have both at the same resolution, and that they are also not re-processed by any service.


I appreciate you pointing out that you need to lower the sharpness in your camera, and that its not the projector that's causing the problem I'm seeing.


----------



## Kevin 3000

3008x2000 is the smallest size i can use which is copressed by photobucket to 1024x768 when uploaded.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23078919
> 
> 
> 3008x2000 is the smallest size i can use which is copressed by photobucket to 1024x768 when uploaded.



My camera also takes the larger size files, but I use "Imageshack" to post my images to. It allows me to choose different size resolutions.




I loaded two of the same shots I posted earlier, but this time I've sized them to 1024x768 - they are still un-touched.


----------



## Kevin 3000

If i owned a CRT i would want the above look.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23074735
> 
> 
> Yo Kev.. now that I got your attention, I have 8 shots here and I want you to do your thing (mimic) with each of them. Now here's what you have to do, you have to do each one of these. Not just a few or one or two. I need you to do them all.
> 
> 
> Pure and Natural 1920x1080P



Imageshack to the rescue. Will shoot at 3008x2000 now above resized in Photoshop

as a test (un-touched).


Noticed Exif data also remains and the sharpness is set to hard (changed ).


----------



## mp20748

You still can't see the edge enhancement in your shots?


Look at the bigger of the kids right leg. There is still tooo much sharpening going on. Why do you have to add sharpness to a Digital Projector?


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23080024
> 
> 
> You still can't see the edge enhancement in your shots?
> 
> 
> Look at the bigger of the kids right leg. There is still tooo much sharpening going on. Why do you have to add sharpness to a Digital Projector?



Will redo again next time with cameras sharpness set to normal (did not realize it was hi).


----------



## mp20748

These three are the ones I really wanted you to do:


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23080186
> 
> 
> These three are the ones I really wanted you to do:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23074735
> 
> 
> Yo Kev.. now that I got your attention, I have 8 shots here and I want you to do your thing (mimic) with each of them. Now here's what you have to do, you have to do each one of these. Not just a few or one or two. I need you to do them all.
> 
> 
> Pure and Natural 1920x1080P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23080186
> 
> 
> These three are the ones I really wanted you to do:
> 
> CRT
> 
> 
> JVC - The pics above were on normal quality this is on fine (zoom to see detail, tweaked convergence).


----------



## mp20748

hey Kev, you still have not posted the last of the THREE shots (tree and leaves) I asked you to post...anyway, and never mind, because you're still posting shots that have too much sharpening, that they seriously lack any resemblance of FILM or Natural. The original for that Blu Ray is 70mm film...well, we know that 70mm film is powerful in image quality, but because it is the reference to Film, it's also not super sharp. It shows things more like how they are when you look at the world using your own eyes.


I took a few more for you to look at as a reference as to what Film and Natural should look like. I've also thrown in the test pattern one more time. This is all of course still 1920X1080P /60hz..


----------



## Kevin 3000

@napos + interested CRTers here you are requested in other thread..

Also turned on Brighter whites in these pics.


JVC E-shift 0 (lowest not off)
 

JVC E-shift 3


----------



## mp20748

Hey Kev. you missed one..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23093297
> 
> 
> Hey Kev. you missed one..


----------



## mp20748

Great and thanks Kev. Now let's look at this... I've posted several shots and asked you to mimic. I mean do a comparison to my shots. In each of them I shifted the colors from one to the other. meaning they all had a difference hues and colors....yet, in each of your shots the colors are spot on match...as if you were using some form of software enhancement.


So to rule that out, it's your turn to post several shots. Let's say you post 4 shots from any of the disk we have used so far, and that will give me the chance to do the comparison on my end.


And before you start, I just want to say that my shots come directly from the camera and are 100% not touched by software......oh, one other thing. Load a Sony Blu Ray, and when you get to the menu in the disk, press 7669 on the remote and from there post your first shot showing the same test pattern i have a few post back..


----------



## mp20748

You out there Kev?


I'm still waiting on you to post those shots from either of the two Blu Rays that's from the 70mm transfer.


----------



## cencio

With your permission, my last experience:


----------



## mp20748

Your shots are getting better and better. And for some reason, your camera picks up a lot of green in some of them.


Also make sure to set your camera at the highest mega-pixel rate for best HD capture.




Now.. where's Kev... Every time I ask him to post random shots, without matching them to shots already posted by someone else, he disappears..


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5340#post_23087362
> 
> 
> 
> I've also thrown in the test pattern one more time. This is all of course still 1920X1080P /60hz..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVC


----------



## mp20748

I simply copied a link of your shot (below) to make sure its not touched by me in any way. Are you not able to see the distortion in the test pattern that i have been trying to point out to you?


Your pattern is sharper, but its also terribly distorted from too much sharpness being added or is that just the nature of the beast. Do note that that is not the case with my shot..











http://imageshack.us/a/img843/8150/jvcx90testeshift0.jpg


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102276
> 
> 
> I simply copied a link of your shot (below) to make sure its not touched by me in any way. Are you not able to see the distortion in the test pattern that i have been trying to point out to you?
> 
> 
> Your pattern is sharper, but its also terribly distorted from too much sharpness being added or is that just the nature of the beast. Do note that that is not the case with my shot..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img843/8150/jvcx90testeshift0.jpg



E-shift on 0 that's it.


----------



## mp20748

So E-Shift can distort to image?


also are you aware that there is edge enhancement and ringing issues being revealed in the pattern?


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102319
> 
> 
> So E-Shift can distort to image?



Camera not squared on to image.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102328
> 
> 
> Camera not squared on to image.



Nope. The cameras position would have nothing to do with it.


----------



## mp20748

Your pattern is showing three different distortions.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102348
> 
> 
> Your pattern is showing three different distortions.



I see in the center circles distortions in yours?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102357
> 
> 
> I see in the center circles distortions in yours?



that's normal.


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102366
> 
> 
> that's normal.



Next time I will turn off e-shift but qive us a clue what I am looking for?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102370
> 
> 
> Next time I will turn off e-shift but qive us a clue what I am looking for?



Ok, I'll get back to you with what to look for later today.


But for now, just post some shots from the two different 70mm movies and post them here. Do so with-out (not) posting a comparison shot.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23102370
> 
> 
> Next time I will turn off e-shift but qive us a clue what I am looking for?



Ok, you have at least three problems showing in that test pattern.


1, Ringing and ghosting in both vertical and horizontal


2, Rainbow effect in the finer lines (both vertical and horizontal)


3, Edge Enhancement throughout


The test pattern also shows (in the small circles) that you may be using the wrong resolution, or could have some noise of other image feature enabled.


But so far, the pattern shows that you are NOT properly resolving 1080P.


If I were you, I would get rid of that JVC and get a Marquee..


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC as requested just trasnsfered by (Nikon Transfer so un-touched + un-calibrated by a meter).


----------



## mp20748

That looks about right, but I'm still seeing ringing and edge enhancement (dear antlers) in some of the scenes.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Check this out..







*Full 1920X1080 /60hz*


----------



## cencio

Some more pictures. 1080p/72Hz

Probably these pictures aren't very sharp but I would like know your opinion about the color balance


These first two from BD DVD

 

 


These from HD DVD same resolution


----------



## mp20748

I'm about sure your camera is not working too good for you on the screenshots. Not all od them do well for these shots.


However, your camera is show very good background definition, because almost everything in the backgrounds is clearly visible.


But what its not showing is overall sharpness. And it doing a very bad job at capturing the colors properly, and that's the main thing that lets me know its not up to the task.



Question: and based on what I'm seeing in your shots. If you were to switch from 1080P 72hz to 1980P 60hz, are you seeing a difference in sharpness?


It seems like you setup is handling 1080P 72hz exceptionally well. Right now I can't do 1080P 72hz, but when I had the lumagen, that rate makes the picture jump off the screen for some reason.


----------



## mp20748

What I like about 1080P native..


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23103981
> 
> 
> JVC as requested just trasnsfered by (Nikon Transfer so un-touched + un-calibrated by a meter).



IMHO a great job Kevin.

Very good images.


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23118338
> 
> 
> I'm about sure your camera is not working too good for you on the screenshots. Not all od them do well for these shots.
> 
> 
> However, your camera is show very good background definition, because almost everything in the backgrounds is clearly visible.
> 
> 
> But what its not showing is overall sharpness. And it doing a very bad job at capturing the colors properly, and that's the main thing that lets me know its not up to the task.



I think too that the camera doesn't work well or probably i'm not able to do that it works well.

I work only in MANUAL mode, FINE quality, SMALL (1504 X 1000) size, ISO 200 but I don't know what is the right white balance to chase (shade, flash, cloudy,auto...).

Those last pics taken in RAW mode and than batched to JPEG. But the results are the same.

I would like know your opinion and have your help.




> Quote:
> Question: and based on what I'm seeing in your shots. If you were to switch from 1080P 72hz to 1980P 60hz, are you seeing a difference in sharpness?
> 
> 
> It seems like you setup is handling 1080P 72hz exceptionally well. Right now I can't do 1080P 72hz, but when I had the lumagen, that rate makes the picture jump off the screen for some reason.



I chose the 1080p/72 Hz because if I start on the OPPO from a 1080p/24 I need only the 1080p/72 Hz by Lumagen to have fluid images without snap. Is this a mistake?

I'm here to learn.


I think at last that the work of your red C element is very important in the global colour balance.


Thanks


----------



## cencio

Just today I have made a fine color calibration on the Marquee and got the same color image of the Kevin's and Mike's last pics.

But when I take pictures with my camera I find that the colors change. So I chose do not show that in this thread.

Help me to find the right setup.

Thanks


----------



## Kevin 3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23119450
> 
> 
> Just today I have made a fine color calibration on the Marquee and got the same color image of the Kevin's and Mike's last pics.
> 
> But when I take pictures with my camera I find that the colors change. So I chose do not show that in this thread.
> 
> Help me to find the right setup.
> 
> Thanks



I use picture control NEUTRAL+ CLOUDY WB (6500k)

Tripod with a timer delay shutter release 2+seconds.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5370#post_23118818
> 
> 
> I think too that the camera doesn't work well or probably i'm not able to do that it works well.
> 
> I work only in MANUAL mode, FINE quality, SMALL (1504 X 1000) size, ISO 200 but I don't know what is the right white balance to chase (shade, flash, cloudy,auto...).
> 
> Those last pics taken in RAW mode and than batched to JPEG. But the results are the same.
> 
> I would like know your opinion and have your help.
> 
> I chose the 1080p/72 Hz because if I start on the OPPO from a 1080p/24 *I need only the 1080p/72 Hz by Lumagen to have fluid images without snap. Is this a mistake?
> 
> I'm here to learn.*
> 
> 
> I think at last that the work of your red C element is very important in the global colour balance.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I agree that 1080P provides that fluid look, and that's one of the main reason to go with it. But I was asking more about being able to see a SHARPNESS difference when you switch from 1080P /60hz to 1080P /72hz. Does the image loose its sharpness at 72hz?


Yes, the RED C element will make a huge improvement with not only the reds, but it will make any color associated with red look better. I used to think it would only give you the Stop sign red, but it goes a lot further.


----------



## neonsky

I need to get these blurays so my G90 can play to.


----------



## cencio

No!

The sharpness is the same in both the resolution. I tried to switch many times but don't see any differences.


I bought from you the red C element but the problem is to take down the pj, take out the glycole and change the element!!!


P.S.

I have had a Nikkor 35mm to try to take new pics while before I used a 18/55 zoom.

Will the colorimetry change?


----------



## Kevin 3000

JVC another outstanding 70mm transfer ZULU. Un-touched from camera.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23126399
> 
> 
> No!
> 
> The sharpness is the same in both the resolution. I tried to switch many times but don't see any differences.
> 
> 
> I bought from you the red C element but the problem is to take down the pj, take out the glycole and change the element!!!
> 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> I have had a Nikkor 35mm to try to take new pics while before I used a 18/55 zoom.
> 
> Will the colorimetry change?



OK, that's good to know. I'm able to see the 1080P /72hz resolved using my pattern generator, and because I'm not using a video processor, I've been hoping to hear how well it resolves Blu Ray when doinga 60 to 72 hertz comparison.


So as it is now, is your image sharper with the newer boards and how do they compare to the previous version when going 72hz?


You don't have to take down the projector to replace the C element. You simply remove the red tubes assembly from the projector. Once it's removed, you can replace the C element quite simply, by just setting the assembly upright. But it has to be resting on something that keeps the neck and pins from touching anything.


I'll see about duplicating the process for you later and post a shot for you to follow.


----------



## mp20748

Come on over, we'll keep the light on for ya..


----------



## napos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin 3000*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23128399
> 
> 
> JVC another outstanding 70mm transfer ZULU. Un-touched from camera.



Very nice Kevin!!! The JVC's are really the most analog-looking digital projectors out there. At least from the screenshots, the image looks sharp, but not artificial.


----------



## mp20748

A touch of Gamma enabled in my Panasonic Blu Ray player


----------



## VPH-G90

Hi, this my G90 calibrated with my photoresarch

picture not retouched 1200 px

G90 with P19lug and HFQ900

1920x817p96


----------



## cencio

I see great and very sharp images but it seems with a light pink charge too.


----------



## VPH-G90

Maybe your computer'screen isn't calibrated ?









My camera isn't perfect, maybe the time of exposition is so long.

But i think the screenshot are good.


----------



## VPH-G90

Remember in these scenes the color temperature is hot


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23140423
> 
> 
> Maybe your computer'screen isn't calibrated ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My camera isn't perfect, maybe the time of exposition is so long.
> 
> But i think the screenshot are good.



Maybe, this my computer display isn't calibrated


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23140430
> 
> 
> Remember in these scenes the color temperature is hot



Your color temperature could be accurate (according to your calibration), because it uses the three RGB markers for reference. So it would show accurate colors on calibration, but most of your images show muted colors, which shows your video chain is not Fast enough to show the full range of colors - colors like brown, and various shades of brown to include yellows (look at Leloos shirt and the flowers around her neck) and its many shades to name a few. Muted colors are caused when you've exceeded your video bandwidth, though, you are operating at the same video bandwidth as 1920x1080P /60hz. Likewise, everything in the backgrounds also show being muted, Both colors and delineation .


You'll will not get the proper facial complexions until you're able to see the oil and perspiration on their face. That will only happen when you're at or near 100% resolving the native content at the higher bandwidth requirement you're running at.


You would do better changing to 72hz, that would lower your bandwidth requirement.


----------



## VPH-G90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23143451
> 
> 
> Your color temperature could be accurate (according to your calibration), because it uses the three RGB markers for reference. So it would show accurate colors on calibration, but most of your images show muted colors, which shows your video chain is not Fast enough to show the full range of colors - colors like brown, and various shades of brown to include yellows (look at Leloos shirt and the flowers around her neck) and its many shades to name a few. Muted colors are caused when you've exceeded your video bandwidth, though, you are operating at the same video bandwidth as 1920x1080P /60hz. Likewise, everything in the backgrounds also show being muted, Both colors and delineation .
> 
> 
> You'll will not get the proper facial complexions until you're able to see the oil and perspiration on their face. That will only happen when you're at or near 100% resolving the native content at the higher bandwidth requirement you're running at.
> 
> 
> You would do better changing to 72hz, that would lower your bandwidth requirement.



lol mike


Your screenshot (curt palme forum) FULL 1080P @ 72hz - 100% RAW / un-touched








[/URL] 

ORIGINAL
 

My screenshot 1920x817p96
 


Me too, i can't see the full range of colors - colors like brown, and various shades of brown to include yellows (look at Leloos shirt and the flowers around her neck) and its many shades to name a few in your screenshot...

About 189 MHz pixel clock are necessary to obtain 1920x817p96 is about 95-100 MHz video bandwidth.

We have not reached the 135 MHz video bandwidth G90. However, I confirm that in excess of 80 MHz video bandwidth it becomes complicated to adjust certain parameters (such as electro-magnetic focus).

But remain seriously, it is difficult to anayser as you do any problems of color shades and full range of colors from a screenshot that does not represent reality. For the moment my camera can not transcribe the whole dynamic of my image ... I'm working on improving my camera settings (iso exposure time).



Cencio you are right, in my screenshot there is light pink charge.

the problem has been located, it is the feast of the white balance of my camera was wrong. good observation.


----------



## VPH-G90

I just do the white balance of my camera.

I tried all possible settings, my camera is unable to transcribe the dynamic range of light in an image of a designer.

I need to buy a better camera.

I visually compared the photo orginale with the image of my G90. It lacks any shade of color and dynamic range is complete.


My first screenshot








[/URL] 

ORIGINAL
 

My new screenshot


----------



## mp20748

Here ya go...plus i threw in an extra.


The Marquee is not warmed up yet, so I'll be doing these again later. And I'm so glad you came out to play..










Also look at the guy behind and left of Leloo, check out the black helmet he has on.




Now without capturing and re-pasting for comparison. Look at the colors in the background (behind Leloo) and look at the difference in the sharpness and clarity of the lady and gent right behind Leloo..


----------



## mp20748

Here's two for you...


----------



## VPH-G90

Ok mike


ORIGINAL
 

My new screenshot (un touched)


----------



## VPH-G90

ORIGINAL
 

My screenshot
 

ORIGINAL
 

my screenshot


----------



## cencio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23143900
> 
> 
> lol mike
> 
> 
> Your screenshot (curt palme forum) FULL 1080P @ 72hz - 100% RAW / un-touched
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL]
> 
> ORIGINAL
> 
> 
> My screenshot 1920x817p96
> 
> 
> 
> Me too, i can't see the full range of colors - colors like brown, and various shades of brown to include yellows (look at Leloos shirt and the flowers around her neck) and its many shades to name a few in your screenshot...
> 
> About 189 MHz pixel clock are necessary to obtain 1920x817p96 is about 95-100 MHz video bandwidth.
> 
> We have not reached the 135 MHz video bandwidth G90. However, I confirm that in excess of 80 MHz video bandwidth it becomes complicated to adjust certain parameters (such as electro-magnetic focus).
> 
> But remain seriously, it is difficult to anayser as you do any problems of color shades and full range of colors from a screenshot that does not represent reality. For the moment my camera can not transcribe the whole dynamic of my image ... I'm working on improving my camera settings (iso exposure time).
> 
> 
> 
> Cencio you are right, in my screenshot there is light pink charge.
> 
> the problem has been located, it is the feast of the white balance of my camera was wrong. good observation.



Thanks for the grating. I spend a lot of time to observe my pj image to search the right way to reply the MP reference images. But I have your problem too.

I haven't a great feeling with the camera. At this time I obteined images like MP reference images but my camera doesn't freeze the same colors: so them appear with green or blue dominance. I bought a new 35 mm lens for my Nikon D60.

But I haven't find the right settings to take good and real pics like images done.

I would like some your help a out this.

It is very difficult doesn't acknowledge that MP images are absolutely the reference: look for the image with Liloos and see the woman in the second floor on the right and the subject on the left. Wonderful


----------



## napos

Vincenzo try the following settings:


Manual mode

1/30 shutter speed

f2.8 aperture

ISO 800

Natural Picture Mode (N)

White balance Auto or Cloudy and if the D60 allows you to use a custom white balance play with the 6250K and 6670K.


You can play around with these, but remember that in order to maintain the same exposure, all parameters interact. You could try for example:1/15, f2.8, ISO 400 which will look better on your D60, but the 1/15 may be causing you some motion blur if you shoot handheld. If you are using a tripod, you would have no problem.


Let me know if you need any help, since I am very familiar with Nikon DSLRs.


Nicholas


----------



## cencio

Many thanks Nicholas,

I will try in the next weekend


----------



## cencio

I forgot to ask you: do you have the red C element on the red tube?


----------



## mp20748

Vincenzo,

When I get some time I will post pictures showing you how to remove the RED (only) CRT assembly from the Marquee and how to replace the C element without changing out or removing the fluid.


----------



## mp20748

Shots from Digital Video Essentials


My 02 VIM - 1920X1080P


I'm gearing up for a calibration later this week.


----------



## mp20748

Getting away from eye setup, to now dialing in the color balance..


----------



## kal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VPH-G90*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5400#post_23144566
> 
> 
> I tried all possible settings, my camera is unable to transcribe the dynamic range of light in an image of a designer.
> 
> I need to buy a better camera. I visually compared the photo orginale with the image of my G90. It lacks any shade of color and dynamic range is complete.


This is very normal.

Even very high end cameras do not have enough stops (dynamic range) to capture the range from black to white that we see on the screens.

The only way to do it is to combine images using HDR (high dynamic range). This is a process in photography where you take multiple photos at different exposures and then combine them. It's the only way to truly show a dynamic range similar to what we see with the human eye. Some cameras can now do HDR automatically by quickly taking multiple shots. They're used extensively by Real Estate Agents when putting houses up for sale as they're quick & easy. They'd probably be ideal for someone who wants to take good screenshots but not have to learn how to use photoshop or similar by taking manual separate photos and combining them.


Kal


----------



## mp20748

I'm in agreement with Kal. The camera is limited. And it can become very complicated to get things closer.


That's why I simply post right from the camera. So no software or Photo-shop fixing for me. It is what it is, captured from a $99.00 point and shoot camera.


However, now that Ive started dialing my colors in, the camera is also starting to show the "Pop" that's so related to a better calibrated setup.


----------



## kal

Doing something like HDR (High Dynamic Range) through multiple exposures is simple to do and gives you more of what the eye actually sees. Take the example of a black cat sitting on white snow:


If you set your camera exposure longer you're going to get great black detail in the cat but crush whites thus losing all detail in the white snow.

If you set your camera exposure shorter you're going to get great white detail in the snow but crush blacks thus losing all detail in the black cat.


Neither is what you acutally see in person because your eyes have a wider dynamic range (contrast ratio) than the camera.


But combine the two and it starts to look more like what you actually see.



> Quote:
> It is what it is, captured from a $99.00 point and shoot camera.



Yup. That's why screenshots need to be taken with a giant grain of salt. People need to keep in mind that's impossible to capture the range and detail you see in an $8-10K digital projector with a $99 camera, let alone a CRT projector that used to cost $30-50K new.


Kal


----------



## cencio

So, Mike and Kal, which is the right camera to take our shoots?


----------



## kal

It's more important to know how to use a camera than to have a specific camera. The knowledge of how to use one is much more important than specific hardware. There's no on "correct" set of settings to take "great screenshots". To use an analogy: You can't use the same knife as a great chef and and expect to also make a great meal. You need to learn to use it right.


If you're wanting to do HDR today, any camera that can shoot with multiple exposures (preferrably RAW) can do it today. You combine the photos with software. There are many new models that support HDR right in the camera too:

*DSLRs*


Pentax K-5

Pentax K-7

Canon 650D

Canon 5D III

Canon 6D

Nikon 5100/5200

Nikon 7100

Nikon D600

Nikon D800

Nikon D4

Sony SLT-A99

Sony SLT-A77

Sony SLT-A55/A57

Sony SLT-A35/37

*Mirrorless / ILC (no viewfinder)*


Sony NEX-3

Sony NEX-5 / 5N / 5R

Sony NEX-6

Sony NEX-7

*Compact / Point & Shoot*


Olympus XZ-2

Panasonic Lumix ZS20


A link to HDR with some product recommendations:

http://photo.tutsplus.com/articles/hardware/are-cameras-with-built-in-hdr-the-future-of-photography/ 


Kal


----------



## nashou66

I just use a small Fuji F10 point and shoot in night time mode, 80 ISO usually , and use a tripod with the 2 second timer on the camera so I don't shake it.


Works for me.


 


Nashou


----------



## WebEffect




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23169458
> 
> 
> I just use a small Fuji F10 point and shoot in night time mode, 80 ISO usually , and use a tripod with the 2 second timer on the camera so I don't shake it.
> 
> 
> Works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashou



Your colours are over-saturated and there is too much blue in your greens. Neither the theatrical presentation nor the Bluray looks like this.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WebEffect*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23170959
> 
> 
> Your colours are over-saturated and there is too much blue in your greens. Neither the theatrical presentation nor the Bluray looks like this.



If you say so.


i calibrated this myself many times using two radiance processors for each PJ. I use an i1 Pro to profile an i1 Display 3 as the field meter. Both PJ's measure a fl;at Greyscale and the same CMS, almost dead on with a slight oversaturation of red, but lower than DE of 3. Blue was a DE of 1 and green was dead on.


Now You should realize, Screen shots are for fun and there is no way in hell another person can see the same image as what is on the screen. My camera, your monitor would have to both be calibrated as well, I now my camera is not.



Now if you said the picture of your set up is showing an over saturation of etc etc than it be a more accurate assesment of the Picture its self not my actual set up and calibration.











Nashou


----------



## cencio

After calibration on gamma and colors. Sorry Mike if I post your same items but these are the goal for me.


----------



## napos

Vincenzo, your pics are a little bit over-exposed. You can see it in the black bar area, where there is some luminance noise. What settings are you using for the D60?


----------



## cencio

At first i made a mistake: my camera is a D50.

And then you are right. Now I don't remember the settings.

But tell you that there is much green too in this pics.

I need still to work .

Thanks


----------



## napos

It is a trial and error process until you get it right. Try using the Natural picture mode, which will not exaggerate any color. Even Standard makes skin tones look too red.

You could use the camera meter to get an even exposure in Manual mode, but it would still not look right, meaning it would not be what you see with your own eyes.

Try playing around with the settings I gave you. The 35mm 1.8G is a very good lens for a DX camera. Try keeping your ISO as low as possible, because the D50 is an older model and noise will show up even as low as ISO 400.

Take advantage of the large aperture of the lens instead. Just remember that all lenses are not at their sharpest wide open, meaning the lens will be sharper at f2.8 than it would be at f1.8.

Let me know if I can help you with any of the camera settings.


Nicholas


----------



## winduptoy

Nashou;


Your screenshot colors look fine to me. I'm still using a CRT and it's working better than ever. The new Oppo player and a bigger screen forced me to redo my setup again. I won't be moving to digital anytime soon. Will post some new shots soon.


----------



## mp20748

More shoots coming real soon..


----------



## Mr Bob

Nashou -


Your saturation looks fine to me.



Vincenzo -


Your colors look a little oversaturated to me, esp. in the fleshtones, which look a bit sunburned and ruddy. And the blues are just a bit vivid to my naked eye. Not badly, but not like Nashou's shots. Of course I love vivid blues, it's one thing that gets sacrificed in a red push scenario - can't have vivid blues and accurate fleshtones at the same saturation setting when you have red push, but ceiling projectors are usually linear so no worries - so having vivid blues is certainly not something I would gripe about! But the fleshtones need to be fiercely accurate, for my tastes. If not it yanks me out of my suspension of disbelief.


I am judging strictly by an uncalibrated PC monitor, tho, a relatively small desktop digital flat panel my gf gave me for Xmas. The colors and saturations looked better when I had a CRT monitor. The grayscale of the digital has those characteristic blue-whites that are set up on purpose that way for computer use, not home theater.


Without having a calibrated monitor, I know I could be speaking thru my hat!


Both sets of shots look great in all other ways, tho. Absolutely crisp, with depth to spare! My compliments.











b


----------



## mp20748

I'm Bak!


A few warm-up shots to get me started. And many more to come, with me even actually doing the color calibration this time, but that's going to take a while, because i have a few more things I'll be doing to my setup before that happens.


My camera seems to be putting a line in the shots. Not sure what that's all about, so it may be time to switch to a previous camera.


Still Full 1920X1080P /60hz - 100 raw!


----------



## Elix

DAMN, I wish I had space for a CRT projector!

Mike, why do you keep posting Fifth Element screenshots? It's actually quite far from a reference quality material. I suggest you do some Dark Knight Rises IMAX scenes next.







It's the best video quality I have ever seen.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elix*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23317815
> 
> 
> DAMN, I wish I had space for a CRT projector!
> 
> Mike, why do you keep posting Fifth Element screenshots? It's actually quite far from a reference quality material. I suggest you do some Dark Knight Rises IMAX scenes next.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the best video quality I have ever seen.



I'm just getting it dialed in tighter on the sharpness and finer detail end. I'll get back with much better shots later, but for now I'm getting her ready for Show Time. And once I get it all dial in and color calibrated, I'll get back with more reference shots.


I take the shots because they allow me to see the depth in them when I post them. It's a lot different watching it on the screen and also being able to see it in the shots.


I get my Blu Rays from Netflix, so I'll most likely do a Blu Ray per week, for the times that I'll be posting. Any reference Blu Rays you recommend to try out?


Oh, and this ain't just a CRT projector.. this is a Special CRT projector..


----------



## Elix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23317928
> 
> 
> Oh, and this ain't just a CRT projector.. this is a Special CRT projector..


I know









> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23317928
> 
> 
> Any reference Blu Rays you recommend to try out?


Both The Dark Knight (2008) and The Dark Knight Rises (2012) are stunning, especially the scenes which were shot on IMAX camera. The image is just so clean and rich with detail. Also loads of contrast-y scenes. I don't know anything better to show off high native contrast ratio and resolution capabilities of a CRT.

But I only recommend buying original blu-ray (not some st(r)eaming piece of clap that Netflix is).


----------



## dsskid

Looks like you're crushing black a bit.


----------



## opitsfm

Yes Art, the wine is flowing. For some reason I feel like I'm stoned too.


----------



## techpeter

Nice shots!!!

what disc is this?


----------



## Elix

Mitsubishi HC5

 


Bring it on, Mike!


----------



## techpeter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cencio*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23175536
> 
> 
> After calibration on gamma and colors. Sorry Mike if I post your same items but these are the goal for me.



Cencio - Nice shots, just bit over saturated for my taste. Which Blu-ray is this? interesting!


----------



## cencio

Thanks!

In the next week I should be able to show the shoots of my new installation.

The BluRay Disc are BARAKA and VIDEOESSENTIALS HD BASIC.


----------



## techpeter

Wish I had the luxury to have a CRT projector but you guys really inspired me get into this. Will a Plasma get me anywhere near your screenshots?


----------



## ImaStar

I'd say a Pioneer Kuro comes darn close


----------



## techpeter

What say about the Panasonic VT60? I read some reviews and it has been rated as the reference quality display award.


----------



## nashou66

Well I finally converted the Rodan-O-Blend to 9 inch tubes. Much better for overall contrast and now at 13 feet wide x 5.5 feet high!!!!!!!


The Blend zone is still visible. Next step is displaying each IRE and finding where the blend zone is most visible.

But there are many factors involved, Blend zone size, the gamma adjustment in the blend zone, the contrast modulation in the blend zone( hardest to adjust) and the gamma matching of both PJ's at each IRE .

Nothing works out perfectly, adjusting one affects the other. I wish TV-One would add at least 10 point

adjustability of the blend zone gamma. That would be a huge help. I sent them the request, or at least add

it to the next generation of edge blenders.


Pause blurs things a bit, it is easier to see at this large resolution.

 


 

 

 


Nashou


----------



## nashou66




----------



## Mr Bob

Nice! Your color fidelity is flawless, and the detail is intense!


I can't see any blend zone aberrations, guess you gotta be there, right?


b


----------



## nashou66

Thanks Bob, I am close and it is the best I have had but there still is some blend mostly in bright scenes and a little in the low end. And where there is a large even color across the blend zone area where

the slight color uniformity of each PJ can be seen. I know if I had a better professional tri stimulus probe like the Klein or the Jetti is it? id get closer.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Elix

If that is anywhere close to what you're seeing, your gamma is too high. Shadow details are crushed and skin tones are shifted towards lower end of color intensity. What are you using as a source? If it's an HTPC, I can tell you how to fix that.

Despite that, I'd love to have the option to have a CRT projector in my place.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elix*  /t/900831/screenshot-war/5430#post_23909944
> 
> 
> If that is anywhere close to what you're seeing, your gamma is too high. Shadow details are crushed and skin tones are shifted towards lower end of color intensity. What are you using as a source? If it's an HTPC, I can tell you how to fix that.
> 
> Despite that, I'd love to have the option to have a CRT projector in my place.



I understand what you're saying, but what the shots are showing is not what's on the screen. I usually just post them the way they come out the camera. I never tweak any of my shots, but when I really get into taking them. I usually do a better job at setting up the projector and also capturing the image with the best camera settings.


I don't make that big of a deal out of it, because it's all be reproduced using a $99.00 point and shoot camera.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## boyibobai


I am going to have to get some up of that on my lowly 1352, later this weekend, here are some for kicks with the DVDO VP50pro:


----------



## overclkr

What's up bitches?????????? Yea that's right!


----------



## overclkr

Nokia freaking out on my stack!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGVfrF51MW4


----------



## nashou66

Cliff I''m definitely bringing my Camera to take some screens.


Nashou


----------



## mp20748

Why I still like CRT...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nashou66

Merry Christmas!!!!!!


 

 


Athanasios


----------



## Mr Bob

Quoting Elix:


> Quote:
> If that is anywhere close to what you're seeing, your gamma is too high. Shadow details are crushed and skin tones are shifted towards lower end of color intensity.



I have not been on this thread for a while, so if this has been covered recently, please forgive the redundance.


Best way to show the shadow detail better is to raise gamma a bit, called giving the pic a "gamma bump". I first heard about this from Cliff, Thread Starter here, via his Moome device. There are screenshots somewhere here in this thread that show shots in 2.2 and the same shots in 2.4, and the 2.4's are definitely better - they show more shadow detail while leaving the blacks crisp inky black, just like they are without the gamma bump.


Brightness/black level does not do that.



b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Mr Bob

Nice, Mike!


b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Getting it ready to put the covers back on...


----------



## imprez25

  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Sony 1251Q TFE Blu-Ray


----------



## nashou66

LOVE what that little 1251 can do!!!


sweet!!!


Nashou


----------



## Mr Bob

Killer! CRT is still the cat's meow for me.











b


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

you achieved this PQ with one of those old crt projectors!? how? also wll that bd player make blu rays look better than my ps3


----------



## kal

2pacalypsenow said:


> you achieved this PQ with one of those old crt projectors!? how?


While the pictures look good there are limits to what a 1251 can do. The pictures look good because the poster knows how to take good photos (colours are good). What you can't see here is the softness/smearing that is going to happen with an older ES focused CRT projector because you're viewing an 800 pixel wide image of what was originally a 1920 pixel wide source . So it looks sharper than it does in real life. You're only seeing 40% of the image.

Kal


----------



## Mr Bob

That said, yes that's what this thread is all about - CRT and how delicious it is, how buying new is not always the best answer. Fixed pixel has to work awfully hard to match what a fully dialed in CRT projector has always been able to do, standing on its head.

I always cringe when I ask an integrator store what they do with old CRT projectors when they find them in a home they will be installing all new equipment in. They usually say, "Oh, we just tear them out and toss 'em."



Keeping those "old CRT projectors" up there and dialed in is where the true fidelity to the image is. And it would save the customer thousands and thousands of dinaro. But no, the integrators want to make that fresh new money on all new equipment. Why should they pass up a perfectly good opportunity to be "out with the old, in with the new" when it will line their pockets with thousands of extra dollars?



Show me a well taken care of HD grade CRT projector, turn me loose, and you won't want to buy new. Ever again.

b


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

Wow im impressed


----------



## kal

Mr Bob said:


> Fixed pixel has to work awfully hard to match ...


IMHO the pixel fill factor and the resolution have been more than high enough for many years now on 'average' screen sizes that the fixed pixel nature of digitals is a moot point.



> Show me a well taken care of HD grade CRT projector, turn me loose, and you won't want to buy new. Ever again.


I guess I'm the odd man out on that one. I've seen many a high end CRT projector that is well set up and I prefer my JVC LCoS.

To each their own. Both have their pros and cons. There is no silver bullet.

Kal


----------



## Mr Bob

True enough.



b


----------



## imprez25

kal said:


> While the pictures look good there are limits to what a 1251 can do. The pictures look good because the poster knows how to take good photos (colours are good). What you can't see here is the softness/smearing that is going to happen with an older ES focused CRT projector because you're viewing an 800 pixel wide image of what was originally a 1920 pixel wide source . So it looks sharper than it does in real life. You're only seeing 40% of the image.
> 
> Kal


Basically this... The images in my photos do look a lot better than they do in real life. Although the colors are pretty much spot on, the image is starting to get a bit soft. One of these days I'll "upgrade" to a digital, but that is still a ways off... Until then I'll be enjoying my black blacks and amazing colors.


----------



## kal

No offense meant to imprez25 of course! I ran a Barco 800 for many years and then later a Zenith 1200 (basically a Barco Cine 8 with LC tubes) for even longer and I was ecstatic with the image quality on both. Both let you forget that you're watching some DVD/Blu-ray source and let you get completely immersed in the image. Both were (IMHO) 10x better than the digitals available at the time. As long as people are happy watching what they have, nothing else matters.

Kal


----------



## imprez25

Kal- none taken at all.


----------



## Ericglo

It should be noted that Kal is running a nice late model JVC pj. I just returned from Cedia and would have no problem switching my G90s for a RS4910. Will I do it? Probably not, as laser/led is just around the corner.


----------



## bguzman

My first crack at this CRT projector thing, Sony 1252.

LD









Blu-ray


----------



## nashou66

bguzman said:


> My first crack at this CRT projector thing, Sony 1252.
> 
> LD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blu-ray


Nice!!!!!

LD even looks good!

Nashou


----------



## nashou66

Live Die Repeat : Edge of Tomorrow















































Athanasios


----------



## SMMM

I love Fifth Element


----------



## bearir

The mention of resolution was referring to the projectors decision, not necessarily the camera. And also we are really not wanting to seize pixel by pixel with the digicam, nor are usually our eye 1920x1080P.


----------



## mp20748

SMMM said:


> I love Fifth Element



Here you go


----------



## Mr Bob

That's showing them, Mike!



b


----------



## nashou66

Ok Guys here we go with some Narnia shots.


Oh, and none of this small picture shots for me ! 

I'm using up some Bandwidth here boys !










Here you can see I need to redo the calibration on the right PJ, its a little cool. I had to do it by eye after I fried my CVA and it initialized all my settings and I never saved the last calibration file.




















Same here you can see the calibration differences.






















 


Nashou!!!!!!


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

Toy Story & Avengers on 808


----------



## Mr Bob

Gorgeous!



b


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Stridsvognen

Mike i need to get over there see your projector again soon.

Its the best image i have seen from any projector!!


----------



## Stridsvognen

Baraka


----------



## mp20748

That's great there. The rocks and his claws claws are also well detailed


----------



## Stridsvognen

A fast shot with the cell phone.http://1drv.ms/1GBjYIz


----------



## redfox001

Looks like you achieved something there Strid. My respect.


----------



## cyclop

*Runco DTV-933 aka 6PG Xtra Resurection.*

After collecting dust in my basement for over 7 years i decided to give it a shot after my Z4 recently died. After a rough 20 min mechanical focus and convergance job it still looks great. Now I am not exactly sure why I ever went the digital way.


----------



## Stridsvognen

Snapped a fast shot of my green tube the other day with my cell phone.

SMPTE pattern running 1080P 72hz 178Mhz on a Marquee with standard Panasonic ( not VDC) LCP tubes and magnetics.

This setup holds sharpness at 13fl on my 90" 2m wide gain 1.0 screen.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Stridsvognen

Cell phone shots.


----------



## Mr Bob

That's a nice cell phone cam!



b


----------



## mp20748

Another one from the same Marquee


----------



## mp20748

image post


----------



## ElTopo

Are you running a single Marquee ?

Looks very bright !


----------



## napos

ElTopo said:


> Are you running a single Marquee ?
> 
> Looks very bright !


It's because of the latest mods. I was also shocked how much brighter my Marquee was when I got the VIM from Mike!


----------



## mp20748

upload gif from url


----------



## Sinobi

A few more from 5th Element, taken a few years back on my Sony 1271 blended setup, before I colour calibrated them.


----------



## koldby

And what are you using now then. What camera did you use to take those pictures?
I would love to see ur setup now ... I am almost in your backyard!


----------



## koldby

No offense but it is very hard to believe, after you zoome in on them, that those ar actual screenshots!!!!


----------



## Mr Bob

Believe it. Those are actually photographs taken by a good camera. Those who post screengrabs straight from their computers always announce that they are screengrabs and not screenshots, and such screengrabs are for comparison purposes only on this thread.

Yes, that's what these CRT projectors are capable of. And if you actually triple-stack your projectors you can get 3x the contrast ratio of 1 projector and have the same amount of light level from your screen, allowing, if you wish, for 3x as big a screen with the same light level as 1 screen/1 projector. * Overclkr*, the starter of this thread, did that and achieved more than 525K:1 CR on his Sony G90 setup, with his acoustically transparent cloth screen. It was truly a wonder to behold, and kudos go to its calibrator, the amazing Ken Whitcomb, for aligning all 9 of the images - normally 6 for Cliff's normal double stack - to sparkling precision.

If you want to continue the fine tradition of stellar images that CRT has always been capable of, find a CRT projector that is going to be replaced by one of the new modalities and grab it! Then call one of us calibrators to dial it in for you. 

Then take a picture with your own high res camera and post it here.

b


----------



## thewolfman

*Refurbished Marquee 9500 LC*

I used up my quota at CP and thought I post here instead. Images are with brand new green, red and blue. Looks are not dramatically better than before but better. :grin:


Hardware: Marquee 9500 LC; HFQ900/HD10E lens combo; MP VIM03; MP VNB:s; Frankenyokes II; 100 inch wide 2,35:1 screen.


DSC05316 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05312 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05309 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05307 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05305 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05301 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05298 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05379 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05375 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05367 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05371 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05349 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05345 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05334 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05328 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05321 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## thewolfman

A few more.

DSC05390 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05388 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05387 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05383 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05290 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


DSC05378 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## Mr Bob

Nice!

b


----------



## Gregstv

A couple of screen shots from the old Barco


----------



## greg1292

9500LC/hd10L stock with screenshot of new sprayed white screen with HGTV HOME by Sherwin-Williams Showcase Interior Flat Tintable White Latex-Base Paint and Primer in One (Actual Net Contents: 31-fl oz). Samsung Galaxy 3 smart phone.


----------



## thewolfman

Mr Bob said:


> Nice!
> 
> b


 
Thanks!


I would just point out that, after I posted them, I first notice the flaws in the images, with mine being to dark while on screen it looks good, for instance. They're also chronically plagued with a haze of blue it seems!


So, for the screenshots posted I've been using this Sony Cybershot DSC-W320, which people have been pointing out in the past may introduce compression artefacts making the image appear sharper than it actually is on screen. It also seems to handle very dark scenes very badly even though it does ISO 80, and here ago thinking it would do my image justice! 


Well, I thought I'd use the Minolta DIMAGE S414 that I just recently found in a drawer, with ISO 64 and PNG, and equipped with much better optics than my Sony (?) and post screenshots with that + my newly bought Microsoft LUMIA 640 XL. With the help of a little tape the tripod can be used for this I'm sure, and with that giving me 3 different versions of the same shot.

Who'll be the winner? Time will tell.


----------



## greg1292

samsung note 3 110" on sprayed white screen on pvc substrate.


----------



## Mr Bob

Those images would definitely suck me in! Very lifelike.

Before I had a cam that would allow me to regulate my aperture, it would only do it automatically and I had to take my Contrast down quite a bit at the set to not have the images my cam would take of my RPTV screen be overexposed. With my set's Contrast at 1/3 of normal my shots would look correct when sent up to Image Shack and posted here using that cam, which was my first digital cam, a Toshiba with Canon optics that were capable of amazing telephotos, but was very automated.

When I got my Kodak 912 with the Schneider optics, much more manual operation was allowed and I was able to set it accurately without dumbing down the Contrast at my set, which I could then return to normal for taking shots. Then it came out perfect that way as well, without having to overcompensate. The things we gotta do to overcome the automatics on some of these devices!

CRT remains the most lifelike of images, even after all these years.


BTW, you left off your final bracket at your final "Quote" in what you wrote to send up - you wrote "[QUOTE/", should be "[QUOTE/*]*" - which is why all the background quote stuff showed up in your writing of it, on your post. If you restore that final missing bracket, the writing behind the order to set up a quotation will all disappear, and your quote will appear normal again, as an actual quote.



b


----------



## thewolfman

*Some oldies with worn tubes*

Very nice, Greg! Very lifelike images indeed. 


Me?, well the Sony camera got broke, where the stands should be inserted, so will rely on oldies for now. Not that it matters, some cameras will oversharpen when downsized I've learned. 


But, I'll have you know, I finally got the MadVR to work with KODI (formerly XBMC media player) and WOW, what beauty that is! 


I'm NOT using all of them, just 3 overall sharpening tools - and no edge-enhancements, because that made it look weird, just 3 kinds of overall sharpening. This, in all, makes it look just like that OPPO 103D I had for while before returning it. You see, the EU model can't be used for making it ISO-compatible like US model, it turns. But what does that matter when KODI + Mad VR look just as good! 


From the good old days when camera worked..


dsc05218_199 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## thewolfman

I do have Lawrence of Arabia, 50th anniversary edition, but the camera stand is broken, so it would not be a real competition. But I will make your 2 post clam justice, I promise.


----------



## thewolfman

I'm sorry, I thought you were making fun of me. But sure, I'll post some 70th shots for comparison.


----------



## Mr Bob

thewolfman said:


> Very nice, Greg! Very lifelike images indeed.
> 
> 
> Me?, well the Sony camera got broke, where the stands should be inserted, so will rely on oldies for now. Not that it matters, some cameras will oversharpen when downsized I've learned.
> 
> 
> But, I'll have you know, I finally got the MadVR to work with KODI (formerly XBMC media player) and WOW, what beauty that is!
> 
> 
> I'm NOT using all of them, just 3 overall sharpening tools - and no edge-enhancements, because that made it look weird, just 3 kinds of overall sharpening. This, in all, makes it look just like that OPPO 103D I had for while before returning it. You see, the EU model can't be used for making it ISO-compatible like US model, it turns. But what does that matter when KODI + Mad VR look just as good! Silky smooth when camera is panorering too, just like I saw it with the OPPO.
> 
> 
> From the good old days when camera worked..
> 
> 
> saturn_202 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> lantern_173 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> dsc05228_561 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> dsc05226_202 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> dsc05218_199 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> dsc05204_966 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> dsc05202_279 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> belly_160 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


Dang, Wolfman! That is absolutely crisp. No oversharpening there. I'm curious about the 3 versions of sharpening you did, without (obviously) any deleterious effects. How'd you do dat?

b


----------



## thewolfman

Thanks. 


I would love it if you gave Mad VR with KODI a go and tell us what you thought of it. 


But so I don't confuse people, the images posted are without any sort of sharpening tools used because XBMC as is don't have sharpening tools added. But once installed there are a whole range of things one can use to make the image pop. 


I found these 3 to be useful: 


Enhace detail - strength 1,2
Luma sharpen - strength 0,63
Adaptive sharpen - strength 0,5


----------



## Fredrik

Nice images thewolfman.

Do you live in Sweden?
The name beside the photos suggest that you are swedish at least


----------



## thewolfman

Yeah, I'm from Umeå. Where do you live and are you using CRT too?


----------



## thewolfman

Btw, I just saw Interstellar, and what bass that was!


----------



## ElTopo

Those last shots are amazing.

CRT is still here 


ElTopo


----------



## Fredrik

thewolfman said:


> Yeah, I'm from Umeå. Where do you live and are you using CRT too?


Live in Stockholm and using a BD808 since 2003 
Too bad it's a pretty long distance to Umeå, would have been great to see it in action.

But it's time to either upgrade to a "new" CRT or a digital after the kitchen has been redone.
I really like CRT but it's probably going to be a LS10000 as a replacement.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman your pictures look real nice.
See that you have taken the time to adjust properly on your CRT. +1


----------



## mp20748

host image online


----------



## redfox001

IMG_0333 by Radio Head, on Flickr


IMG_0329 by Radio Head, on Flickr


----------



## redfox001

IMG_0357 by Radio Head, on Flickr


----------



## thewolfman

Nice once, Redfox! 


Have you come far with the setup? Finished?


----------



## redfox001

thewolfman said:


> Nice once, Redfox!
> 
> 
> Have you come far with the setup? Finished?


Thank you.

Never finished but the way it is now I can enjoy a movie and relax.

I was wondering if I could get the left ear visible and not get overexposure but that is not possible so the dynamic range on the screen is much bigger than the camera can record even with longer shutter times.


----------



## redfox001

thewolfman said:


> I used up my quota at CP and thought
> DSC05321 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr




I specially like this one. Don't know if I can reproduce so much detail.


----------



## thewolfman

Left ear? Now that you have said it I know what to look for.. I'll see what mine looks like too. What are the date marks for the ear and the one looking down at the abyss and the cars? 


Oh, and I responded to you, Dj DEE, but I have to few online post to answer for it to work, but will get back to you about a meet later, thanks.


----------



## thewolfman

For kicks, it would be nice to have a shootout of the ceiling-shootout to emphasise CRT vs Digital. Just me.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## ElTopo

redfox001 said:


> IMG_0357 by Radio Head, on Flickr



WOW 

CINE 9 what should i say ?!


----------



## redfox001

Thanks and it is funny you say that because I got that cine 9 feeling too with this hybrid 9500. I got that feeling after using the HFQ900 lenses and when the noise dropped substantial doing convergence board mods MP style (lots of other mods). Suddenly I got that feeling he this starts to look like my old Cine 9 low noise and supersharp all over the screen (100 inch). But still no Lug's but high bandwidth video boards thanks to Mike Parker. 

Perhaps soon some Cine 9 shots when I finish the blend. Soon....?


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> For kicks, it would be nice to have a shootout of the ceiling-shootout to emphasise CRT vs Digital. Just me.





Projectors are fun, doing side by side test is fun. And see differences is easy.
Ceiling-shootout CRT vs Digital done many times, but not with Marquee 9500LC Ultra. 
Have only done it with Barco 808, 909, Cine9. So I would love to do it with a Marquee also prefer modded since they suppose to be so much better than what I have tested. 
But I do not know of anyone here in Norway with that. And not many with 9" Crt here in Norway any longer.


----------



## Dj Dee

Nice photo. Also liked it.
I see her eyes more green than blue on screen and in the photo I have. But cameras can not be trusted.
Then the pick of the fifth element, that redfox put out.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## thewolfman

*Frankenyokes*

FY in the works.


dsc05216_313 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## thewolfman

One more for the road.


dsc05218_199 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## thewolfman

This is shots from earlier this year, some with mods some without, I can't remember, but always with Frankenyokes installed for better focus. And I think it shows too. And of course very glad I bought them when nobody was interested in them. I know of only 7 or 10 of these in the world, there might be more, but pretty darn rare for sure. 


And trust me, there is no digital sharpening going on here. I never have, because I just got KODI to work with digital sharpening and I sometime use that when I watch. After I while I went down to use only one sharpening tool, with a very low setting, but some movies can't handle it and it looks like **** and I turn it off. 


Ohh and soon my red c-element will be here.. and with that a good reason to dial in the pj again, as I've been removing tubes a few time now and got bad focus on my lenses I figured out. With upcoming set up I will try and see if the tubes fires up at the same time, if they do, they should be good to go I guess. But I will need to read up on that to get the hang of it.


Btw, I've been trying to get rid of excess blue on my pj so my images might shift back and forth with the colors. That's what's left to do with it, but of course, the images from the camera added blue also so have that in mind when seeing mine. I will get a new camera some day to make them as real as possible.


vibrating_home_810 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

tha_bad_man_240 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

samsara_487 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

robot_105 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

r_lee_ermey_146 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

pitt__freeman_781 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

pendulum_187 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

munks_796 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

morgan_freeman_108 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

man_with_facial_hair_127 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

kid_210 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

girls_136 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

gibberish_736 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

freeman__pitt_893 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05224_156 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05092_190 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05090_149 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05085_249 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05083_183 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05082_184 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05078_869 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05049_980 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05041_163 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05036_180 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

dsc05015_109 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

captain_160 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

books_list_115 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr

arm_166 by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## redfox001

Looking good Ulf. Does your camera have a white balance setting? Mine was set to auto and I set it to daylight. I think daylight is 6500K. Man with facial hair should have white clouds around him


----------



## thewolfman

I think it does. I always use auto and let the camera decide what to do. But it's more or less useless now as the plastic threading broke on it making it wobbely. It would be nice to get a new camera that does it justice though. It could be the other way around too of course.. one never knows with cameras. 


Btw, I thinking I'll buy From Hell + a bluray-burner and make a clean stripped copy with black borders removed to save on bandwidth, as From Hell can't be accessed with a clean strip any other way so I will need to do it myself. There's some good scenes there I would like to capture.


----------



## redfox001

And I still did not see that movie. I watched Bone Tomahawk the other night. Great scenes but the cannibals where a bit to much for me lol


----------



## thewolfman

Cool suggestion! I completely forgot about that one, I'll get it right away.


----------



## thewolfman

I borrowed your norwegian Barco 909 screenshot, DJ DE, and can tell you I got the Barco beat down with better resolved tree tops.  Look on the right and notice the tree tops are better defined on mine than on the Barco. So my Frankenyokes does a good job of focusing in on small objects and with MP goodies there's no contest there. I have another shot of it, where the shot got over exposed - or something - so didn't bring that one in for the comparison. You already know I have no clue about a lot of things so I just focus on comparing who's the better machine sharp wise. Thanks for sharing!


Marquee 9500


Marquee by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


Barco 909


Barco 909 Norge by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


----------



## Andreas21

thewolfman said:


> I borrowed your norwegian Barco 909 screenshot, DJ DE, and can tell you I got the Barco beat down with better resolved tree tops.  Look on the right and notice the tree tops are better defined on mine than on the Barco. So my Frankenyokes does a good job of focusing in on small objects and with MP goodies there's no contest there. I have another shot of it, where the shot got over exposed - or something - so didn't bring that one in for the comparison. You already know I have no clue about a lot of things so I just focus on comparing who's the better machine sharp wise. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> 
> Marquee 9500
> 
> 
> Marquee by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Barco 909
> 
> 
> Barco 909 Norge by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


The biggest difference here is camera settings, not a very big difference in sharpness. But the Marquee looks a little bit sharper on the shots, if tested side by side I am not sure of the outcome.

I would really like you to take the King Kong shot of the valley with the dinosaurs in the background.


----------



## thewolfman

Hej, Anders!


Unfortunately, the camera really is broken, where you insert the kickstand, so it can't be used anymore. And my pj is sort of misaligned at the moment so there will be a while with new screenshots. But hey, feel free to make comparisons with any of my previous screenies. 


So, I will need to get back to you - with other shots than King Kong - some other time with a new better camera and make comparisons then. If you care much for horror then get a copy of From Hell and I'll get one too. I'll remove the borders on it, to save on bandwidth, and make clean stripped copy from it. Maybe [email protected] over the usual [email protected] to save even more. I don't mind at all to show my pj off and like some more Barco shots if you could?


----------



## Andreas21

thewolfman said:


> Hej, Anders!
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the camera really is broken, where you insert the kickstand, so it can't be used anymore. And my pj is sort of misaligned at the moment so there will be a while with new screenshots. But hey, feel free to make comparisons with any of my previous screenies.
> 
> 
> So, I will need to get back to you - with other shots than King Kong - some other time with a new better camera and make comparisons then. If you care much for horror then get a copy of From Hell and I'll get one too. I'll remove the borders on it, to save on bandwidth, and make clean stripped copy from it. Maybe [email protected] over the usual [email protected] to save even more. I don't mind at all to show my pj off and like some more Barco shots if you could?


Keep up the good work Wolfman and the camera is not so important when taking screenshots it is the man behind the camera.

I´m not very into screenshots as I don´t want to spend much time on them, but my friend Dj Dee takes a lot of them and likes to compare. He also have a lot of shots of different CRT´s I don´t.


----------



## thewolfman

Andreas21 said:


> Keep up the good work Wolfman and the camera is not so important when taking screenshots it is the man behind the camera.
> 
> I´m not very into screenshots as I don´t want to spend much time on them, but my friend Dj Dee takes a lot of them and likes to compare. He also have a lot of shots of different CRT´s I don´t.


 
Well he can chime in too if he wants, with a screenshot of my famous lizzard headshot. One screenshot from the Sony 4k, one from the JVC, and later - if he wants to - the same from the Barco. How about that? But if you do, don't make it where you flipp them back and forth, make them so one can see them all at once all tucked together, like I did just now. I'll update mine when I get my hands on new camera then we'll see if my image get's to be sharper or softer. There's more headshots of that lizzard out there but there's no posting of it. To bad.. it would have been nice to see what those shots looked like.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I borrowed your norwegian Barco 909 screenshot, *DJ DEE*, and can tell you I got the Barco beat down with better resolved tree tops.  Look on the right and notice the tree tops are better defined on mine than on the Barco. So my Frankenyokes does a good job of focusing in on small objects and with MP goodies there's no contest there. I have another shot of it, where the shot got over exposed - or something - so didn't bring that one in for the comparison. You already know I have no clue about a lot of things so I just focus on comparing who's the better machine sharp wise. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> 
> Marquee 9500
> 
> 
> Marquee by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Barco 909
> 
> 
> Barco 909 Norge by Ulf Karlsson, on Flickr


 

Do you have MP modds? Fully modded? What?
Yours look some sharper, can be the camera or me as a bad photographer hehe
You have much blue in your picture, but similar. @El Topo has a Cine 9 if I remember correct, give him the challenge. I know his Cine9 is good. Maybe better? Still the best CRT I have ever seen is the Cine9


----------



## Dj Dee

@redfox001


You also take good pictures take the same and also the king kong picture


----------



## Andreas21

Dj Dee said:


> Do you have MP modds? Fully modded? What?
> Yours look some sharper, can be the camera or me as a bad photographer hehe
> You have much blue in your picture, but similar. @El Topo has a Cine 9 if I remember correct, give him the challenge. I know his Cine9 is good. Maybe better? Still the best CRT I have ever seen is the Cine9


I think most of the sharpness difference you see is actually the brightness difference in these pictures, as brighter looks sharper in many ways. @thewolfman also has to much blue in his pictures that makes it look brighter.


----------



## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> Do you have MP modds? Fully modded? What?
> Yours look some sharper, can be the camera or me as a bad photographer hehe
> You have much blue in your picture, but similar. @El Topo has a Cine 9 if I remember correct, give him the challenge. I know his Cine9 is good. Maybe better? Still the best CRT I have ever seen is the Cine9


I had so many different hardware set ups over the past 6 or 8 months so I will need to brows thru a bunch of pages at CP to find out. I'll get back to you on that. 

Anyway, I'm mostly interested of the lizzard headshot and the golden temple shown above from Samsara. But a lot of the images were taken with a stock machine and Frankenyokes and turned out very well too. Very crisp even. 

I'm thinking I shall buy a new camera instead of of a bluray burner and take some new shots. But I'll need to work on it before, I don't think it's that sharp anymore. The good thing about a new camera would be that I could use that as a magnifier when trying to make the dots as round as possible. I can't see from 4 meters away what I'm doing so there's a lot of walking back and forth to the screen and that gets tiresome very fast! So with that in mind there might be another gear in it I think.

But my current HDM is a real noisy bastard with what I think is making my images seem washed out too, I toasted my 2008 HDM and bought a replacement that is God knows how old. Vibrating horizontal fine lines from top to bottom. But I got a good deal from a friend that will sell me a 2011 HDM if I want to. It's on hold for now but I'll get it soon. There's no hurry really.


----------



## Dj Dee

@thewolfman 
@redfox001 
@mp20748 


Here some side by side pictures form Oblivion on Barco 909 and Sony HW55
I corrected the BARCO 909 with contrast and brightness up to the Correct standards and
Both not calibrated. But maked both as good as possible. Oppo BD.
Brightness on the Sony on low lamp, and longer shutter time on camera for the Barco picture. If same shutter time the Barco 909 would look completely dark.
To get the images look as equal as possible. 6,8FL in 100% White Barco and the Sony 15,7FL 100% White in low lamp, measured on screen Sony HW55.


Would be fun to see the marquee 9500 and the Cine9 same pictures. This is similar to what I remember also, just that differences are Big seen on a big screen.



909



HW55


909



HW55


----------



## thewolfman

I'll take you up on those shots and show as soon as I get a new camera, I'm looking at some 1500 SEK full size cameras with a lot optical zoom right now. Check in here later as I really need to get some sleep now.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I'll take you up on those shots and show as soon as I get a new camera, I'm looking at some 1500 SEK full size cameras with a lot optical zoom right now. Check in here later as I really need to get some sleep now.


Cool, when you take the pictures go as close to screen as posible so you can get the hole image. And use the setting with shutter time in it. Then you can take a series of pictures with different shutter and se witch one is closest to what you see on screen.


----------



## Dj Dee

Here some compartment with a Sony HV55 and a JVCX500


White crush/black crush do not exist on screen. I see some on both.
I found the best pictures from both projectors that I had.
The cool thing here is that you almost don't see differences in the pictures. On screen the X500 were superb compared. So this is why screenshots don't manage to show differences if they are not big.


The Sony HV55 contrast native measured 4600:1 JVC had 34400:1. With Iris engaged Sony HV55: 32000:1 The Jvc X500 with Auto Iris2 389000:1
Brightness matched at 15FL. HDTV Rec 709 D65 Calibrated.









jvc X500 Wrong named in the hotlink



Sony HW55 Also wrong name in the hotlink


----------



## mp20748

Testing the forums image upload


----------



## thewolfman

I had the best day today, and yesterday, when I found the perfect binoculars at the local TV-shop. And get this! 9$!! Very solidly built and with rubber cover. Feels very sturdy and well built to me. I've been looking for a set for years now, and once that don't cost a bunch to give a try. If anyone needs a set I could buy a few and send it to you or try yourself from the shop. They work very badly holding it with just your hand, but if you have something to steady your hand you don't even have to enlarge the dots to set the magnets, that's how well they work. 

Personally, I've attached my binoculars on the chains on the back holding up the pj that hangs from the ceiling at chest level. Absolutely perfect for this sort of thing, and later, when I lengthen the strings, I'll attach them from the nooses from where the chains are attached to instead directly on the chains.. because when leaning back to stabilize I also move the pj and that don't work as good. 

https://www.netonnet.se/art/foto/kikare/andersson-bir-10/203988.9020/

Then today my luck continued when I discovered "white balance" in the PIC menu on the remote.. and man oh man what difference that made! I thought I had my image nailed with a perfect white balance with just fiddeling around with G2 levels and such, but when I ramped up white balance all the way to 63, and I noticed how white became much better, and when going back and forth with that + zone contrast I shifted out a lot of brown/yellow, that I thought was my real white, and also some blue on the far left and right, but settled with 57 in the end. Btw, the blue seen on my previous screenshots are mostly from the camera used so am looking at a DSLR to replace it, but can't decide on witch one to get. 

Anyway, this morning I used the movie The Assassin 2015 that begins in black and white so that made it a lot easier to nail the whites better. Over doing it I made them to look blue in the face etc. And Anders and DJ DEE, thanks for posting the golden temple from Samsara, because I now know that my image looks very similar to your digital screenshot when it comes to color. The trees on the right are all bright and got that pale green shade going, and not at all black crushed seen on both my and on the Barco. I also removed the sharpening tools from KODI and just run it as is. 

What else, oh yes, I mentioned earlier that my image looked very nasty with a lot of noise going on, but that was with my other computer, that I had to use as a spare when my newly built PC, with a GTX 970 graphics card on it, got broke, and resorted to my other PC with a GIGABYTE GV R485 OC card on it.. and I'm almost 100%sure it's lot calmer now when I swapped back to GTX 970. I never thought that graphics cards differed at all but it seems they do after all. I still have this horizontal fine lines from left to right but the overall image seems calmer now. 

I could of course be totally delusional but it seems to me that my build is very soon ready to be called calibrated by eye! :grin:


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> Anyway, this morning I used the movie The Assassin 2015 that begins in black and white so that made it a lot easier to nail the whites better. Over doing it I made them to look blue in the face etc. And Anders and DJ DEE, thanks for posting the golden temple from Samsara, because I now know that my image looks very similar to your digital screenshot when it comes to color. The trees on the right are all bright and got that pale green shade going, and not at all black crushed seen on both my and on the Barco. I also removed the sharpening tools from KODI and just run it as is.
> 
> What else, oh yes, I mentioned earlier that my image looked very nasty with a lot of noise going on, but that was with my other computer, that I had to use as a spare when my newly built PC, with a GTX 970 graphics card on it, got broke, and resorted to my other PC with a GIGABYTE GV R485 OC card on it.. and I'm almost 100%sure it's lot calmer now when I swapped back to GTX 970. I never thought that graphics cards differed at all but it seems they do after all. I still have this horizontal fine lines from left to right but the overall image seems calmer now.
> 
> I could of course be totally delusional but it seems to me that my build is very soon ready to be called calibrated by eye! :grin:



Hehe called calibrated by eye! :grin: We all have done that, problem: picture or film we know well looks good there at one picture frame in the film, but totally wrong somewhere else. And you newer manages to remember REC709/D65 HDTV standard then you make your own and faaaaaaaaaaaaaar from how it should be. Perfect example is skin tones.
If you adjust skin tones to a white person a black person gets then very wrong usually. 


Looking forward to see more correct colors in your pictures with less blue, you have good shots if you know how to adjust the camera correct. 
Happy holidays Happy Christmas.


----------



## thewolfman

Yes I know, I'm more than likely far off the mark, but it feels good moving along at least. I hope.

God Jul på Er med!


----------



## thewolfman

If you wonder where my images went I can tell you that I was trying to upload even more images but then something happened so that whenever I try and copy the link that I'm suppose to insert in the this message box it gets shifted off to the left and gets unreachable.. I'm thinking it's a bug from Flickr rather than me using Win 10 that is know to have bugs. Don't worry, I'll insert them again. Anyway, I deleted my account and started it again but the fault is still there. Weird!

And Andreas, DJ DEE, as much as I like your color corrected images, and the level of sharpness they have, they seriously lack the feel of a matiné movie. Take the King Kong and the Burlesque shot.. yours look like a digital poster while CRT look very much like a matiné movie. There's no warmth at all in your digital shots. No glow around neon lights.. only a weird sterile cartoonish look all over the image. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that's how it all suppose to look but to me the look of it - online at least - is not appealing at all. Again, we're just talking and I'm looking forward to see how a JVC REALLY looks like irl - not to mention a 4K machine!


----------



## thewolfman

The strong suits of digital, is that it shows it all, doesn't it? I'm watching the Burlesque shots right now and didn't even realize there's another car in front of the first one.. that shows the strengths of a digital I guess. It shows it all.. but it is suppose to do that all the time, I doubt it. 
If the movie were shot in this decade, or something, probably, but what about a movie shot in the 80th, what then? Take Predator for an example, my on the top 10 list of all times, that looks like **** when they made it look digital with they removed all the grain! They raised the low black level as well witch is another trade of digital a bit. Everything seems so bright. I hope they'll release another blu-ray version of it because the digital tune up made it look like ****!! Again, it's my personal taste so remember there's no right or wrong here, only taste.

Cheers!


----------



## Andreas21

thewolfman said:


> The strong suits of digital, is that it shows it all, doesn't it? I'm watching the Burlesque shots right now and didn't even realize there's another car in front of the first one.. that shows the strengths of a digital I guess. It shows it all.. but it is suppose to do that all the time, I doubt it.
> If the movie were shot in this decade, or something, probably, but what about a movie shot in the 80th, what then? Take Predator for an example, my on the top 10 list of all times, that looks like **** when they made it look digital with they removed all the grain! They raised the low black level as well witch is another trade of digital a bit. Everything seems so bright. I hope they'll release another blu-ray version of it because the digital tune up made it look like ****!! Again, it's my personal taste so remember there's no right or wrong here, only taste.
> 
> Cheers!


Of corse you can have your own taste and like what you want, but if you are trying to be close to the source and want your picture to be as best as possible showing BD there is now way around a good rec.709 calibration and a power gamma (2.2-2.4) suiting the room conditions.


----------



## thewolfman

Andreas21 said:


> Of corse you can have your own taste and like what you want, but if you are trying to be close to the source and want your picture to be as best as possible showing BD there is now way around a good rec.709 calibration and a power gamma (2.2-2.4) suiting the room conditions.


I'm sure we would understand each other better IF we had both technologies in our knees. Or better yet, IF I had them, because you already had yours with multiple CRT:s and multiple digitals too. Not many have. 

But if there's anything, I can sort of phantom the idea of what heck normal viewing should be about, because at lot of the times I feel that my CRT-image looks dim when the conditions surrounding it are broad-daylight. Or something of that sort. It's something about it I just can't put my finger on..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Dj Dee

The first picture I liked the best MP looked good.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> The first picture I liked the best MP looked good.


Thank you dude, that was my preference as well. There's just something about it


----------



## Dj Dee

The wolfman .
The file I sent you is a downscaled 4K file to 1080P and pictures form that file. I think it looks good. There are some banding in the clip I made, but its a cool clip showing a clear image and debt/detail resolution. Use this much as a demo clip in my cinema. LG showing of 4K "Europe"
Here some shots that I am pleased with. And it looks close in colors seen on screen.
If anyone else want it I can sprend it by email.


----------



## mp20748

upload imagem


upload imagem

pic host


----------



## Per Johnny

Mike, I like the new screenshots. Even if it difficult to judge screenshots, they seems more correct and very nice. I have used the JK video often myself, and the colors look very similiar to what I am used to.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> Mike, I like the new screenshots. Even if it difficult to judge screenshots, they seems more correct and very nice. I have used the JK video often myself, and the colors look very similiar to what I am used to.


What do you think here PJ?
And your shots MP is here much more correct


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> What do you think here PJ?
> And your shots MP is here much more correct


You know that I know how the JVC performs, so that should be no suprise to you. Hehe!

Nonetheless, I see the progress in MPs screenshots. It would be no suprise to me if his projector starts to look quite sweet in real life.


----------



## Dj Dee

You getting a lot closer now in your shots with camera colors now Mike. Camera can do much with colors.
They look good 







image upload without registration


----------



## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> Mike, I like the new screenshots. Even if it difficult to judge screenshots, they seems more correct and very nice. I have used the JK video often myself, and the colors look very similar to what I am used to.


Yes, it is closer to the norm. You can tell a lot using and watching screenshots, but they should not be used as a determiner. They do well giving you good idea, yet they can also and precisely show some things. 

My setup has evolved somewhat. My camera won't capture it all, and it's hard to see the WOW factor. It's very lifelike and intense. You'd think it's a digital on forst sight. I'm still tinkering a bit, but not sure how much longer. Getting too old for this..


----------



## thewolfman

Sorry for a late reply, DJ Dee, I just got home from Star Wars and filling Disney's pockets with a hefty 21$. Damn it, I'm not such a big fan of 3D it seems, as my eyes tries to focus on the subtitles and the movie at the same time. Annoying. 

Anyway, I got the new camera now and will try and take some shots soon, and see if we can get rid of the blue and maybe home in on rec709 we talked about. I think it might be an impossible job but worth a try.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> Sorry for a late reply, DJ Dee, I just got home from Star Wars and filling Disney's pockets with a hefty 21$. Damn it, I'm not such a big fan of 3D it seems, as my eyes tries to focus on the subtitles and the movie at the same time. Annoying.
> 
> Anyway, I got the new camera now and will try and take some shots soon, and see if we can get rid of the blue and maybe home in on rec709 we talked about. I think it might be an impossible job but worth a try.



Jepp me to feel that 3D on cinema is painful, I prefer the 2D.
Of coerce a calibration is the best, but if its comes to money best to try yourselves to get it as god as possible. Most important thing you are happy


----------



## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> Jepp me to feel that 3D on cinema is painful, I prefer the 2D.
> Of coerce a calibration is the best, but if its comes to money best to try yourselves to get it as god as possible. Most important thing you are happy


Nah, I appreciate all the help I can get and looking forward to the new shots and see how they turn out. 

Ok, I'm off to bed now for a few hours of sleep and counting sheeps!


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> nah, i appreciate all the help i can get and looking forward to the new shots and see how they turn out.
> 
> Ok, i'm off to bed now for a few hours of sleep and counting sheeps!


merry christmas


----------



## mp20748

My other set of neck boards


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> My other set of neck boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/ycxu3mfcf/full/


Cool pictures I liked this best  Merry Christmas Mike


----------



## Per Johnny

Agree, it looks much better in the lower part, and the latest screenshots produce much better fine-detail. Merry Xmas.


----------



## mp20748

Thanks Guys. They are my favorite as well.

These are a special project I'm working on, so I'll need two different sets of these boards. The 200mhz are definitely better for HD.

Merry Christmas Diddern, PJ and to all.


----------



## Stridsvognen

Here is a pic to play with, for direct comparison to the source material.
Its downscaled from 6000x4000 pixels and cut to be 1920x1080, its a natural image my brother made with my camera last year, with no visible edge enhancement or other visible distortions, like on those LG test pics.

Should be fun to see how the red and shades and reflection shows on a screen shot, when it has been true the video chain and a camera.


----------



## Stridsvognen

Here is a fast free hand cell phone shot of that Camaro image on my screen, it looks like its hot spotting, its not, its something the camera do.
And the projector is not calibrated.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Dj Dee

You have clearly more detail sharpness than the CRTs I have seen the last year. When you zoom in.
The pictures are soft but still nice. 
You also have some "ghosting" in some of the shots, just camera," Movement when pressing the button".
Colors are also ok here if not doing side by side. You have some black crush in the pictures, but I guess you see the details lost on screen. 
You should take same pictures without the 200MGH, I am shore you will see the difference.


----------



## mp20748

Those 4K scenes are your typical Enhanced (over everything) material that's almost always made to catch eyes and make the product look better than anything normal.

The material itself has much edge and other artifacts, that are common with Enhancing Video.

There is very little native sharpness or naturalness to be seen.


Good eye candy, but for the discerning eye, a disastrous enhancement job. 


Do you have any non enhanced files like this?


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Those 4K scenes are your typical Enhanced (over everything) material that's almost always made to catch eyes and make the product look better than anything normal.
> 
> The material itself has much edge and other artifacts, that are common with Enhancing Video.
> 
> There is very little native sharpness or naturalness to be seen.
> 
> 
> Good eye candy, but for the discerning eye, a disastrous enhancement job.
> 
> 
> Do you have any non enhanced files like this?


Problem is that its a original 4K that I scaled down to 1080P file, I got many full 4K files, but when I convert it to 1080P you don't get the same result. NOT perfect. And its as natural as it gets from the 4K file 
Why I wanted you to post some of this shots was, because I have used this on cine9 and 909 in compression. And what I see from your pictures if you look away from that the material itself has edge and other artifacts you see the debt and sharpness differences clair. and how well it defines the down sampled file. And your PJ handles it well. And I think you used the 200MGH mod because the picture defined better detail sharpness and debt than what I've seen on the 909 and the cine9 if I don't remember correct. But now I go deep. I have seen this in real 4K on my SonyVW1100 and VW520 and if you stand just 10 centimeters from the 110" screen its just clean and enormous details and debt without any edge and other artifacts. You then get the analog feeling that I know you like. So watching it in 1080P is far from the same, almost a downtripp. The biggest problem with this file is banding, also some in the 4K file.


----------



## Dj Dee

Nice shot and nice car. Your camera blooms up like you say or the PJ.
And you also says not calibrated so explains it. Little bit less blue in greyscale you are almost there. 
I see that the original camera photo looks some sharper than mine from screen. And my picture has some more color but not much. But took 8 pictures with different shutter time to get it as close to how I see it on screen. 
Also feel that the JVC picture here shows very little processing. And good that Teds pattern work for me, but still some processing not totally clean. Settings: Darbee Off, Clair black OFF, In the JVC MPC level: enhance 30(defalt50) Dynamic contrast 13(default 50)smoothing 50(default 50) NR 5 (defalt5) Oppo everything on zero/source direct


This is just the same here with other films that's been used in this thread and others. Screen Cap or original camera photo. Its talked about Naturalness and closest to the source. What is the peoples opinion here?
Are there used colored c elements?

Picture 1 Marquee9500 I think.
Picture 2 JVC X500
Picture 3 the orginal photo





Orginal photo


----------



## Per Johnny

Diddern, the x500 screenshot seems very close to orginal picture in color reproduction.


----------



## Andreas21

Per Johnny said:


> Diddern, the x500 screenshot seems very close to orginal picture in color reproduction.


I agree and if you zoom in closely you see there is very little added processing if any. The CRT picture on the other hand does not look good in much at all, but if they like it it is ok with me.


----------



## Dj Dee

Andreas21 said:


> I agree and if you zoom in closely you see there is very little added processing if any. The CRT picture on the other hand does not look good in much at all, but if they like it it is ok with me.


Very little processing you are right, and detail sharpness is huge much better also.
Also debt because of this. But when the CRT is calibrated it will look better.
You also know Andreas that my greyscale is almost near perfect, and color space perfect. and gamma spot on 2.35 that I like.
You did that so you should know hehe.


----------



## Stridsvognen

I never heard about any CRT projector with the name X500.. Are you sure your posting in the right thread.?
Your aware this is the CRT section of the forum right.?


----------



## Per Johnny

Stridsvognen said:


> I never heard about any CRT projector with the name X500.. Are you sure your posting in the right thread.?
> Your aware this is the CRT section of the forum right.?


The thread name is : Screenshot war

Someone/s in here (crt section) is eager to claim that crt is still beating anything digital, so it should be fruitful in a friendly way post comparison screenshots.

I like both crt and digital. Especially I love the people who still pursue to better the performance of crt.


----------



## Stridsvognen

When using a reference picture, its important to understand that its not ok to tamper with it as one might do with other pictures, and like this is the CRT section, most of us have a good eye for enhancement, and artifacts, so maybe using that kind of image processing gets more tracking in the digital section.


----------



## Stridsvognen

Per Johnny said:


> The thread name is : Screenshot war
> 
> Someone/s in here (crt section) is eager to claim that crt is still beating anything digital, so it should be fruitful in a friendly way post comparison screenshots.
> 
> I like both crt and digital. Especially I love the people who still pursue to better the performance of crt.


The only thing that has been proven is that all the pics that has been in the hands of Dj Dee has digital manipulation going on, making it look quite terrible, i know some like that kind of pictures, even with the way off calibration, free hand cell phone screen shot i made of the Camaro looks more natural, even compared to what Dj De claims to be the original picture, wich im the owner and master off.
I think it would be great if someone makes a CRT vs Digital screen shot thread, but this one is not it, and ill be happy to point out the FACTS about the mess going on in digital projectors.
As long the thread is located in the digital section of this forum, where it will get more atention.


----------



## Per Johnny

Stridsvognen said:


> When using a reference picture, its important to understand that its not ok to tamper with it as one might do with other pictures, and like this is the CRT section, most of us have a good eye for enhancement, and artifacts, so maybe using that kind of image processing gets more tracking in the digital section.


Have you zoomed in the x500 screenshot compared it to a zoom of the fullsize 6000x4000 orignal or the downsized 1920x1080 from the original? It seems like it is from the fullsize?

I did a zoom of your crt-screenshot also, and it shows artefacts also, probaly most due to the compression in the actual screenshots file.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> The thread name is : Screenshot war
> 
> Someone/s in here (crt section) is eager to claim that crt is still beating anything digital, so it should be fruitful in a friendly way post comparison screenshots.
> 
> I like both crt and digital. Especially I love the people who still pursue to better the performance of crt.


I like both to Per J. You are so right so right.
I knew that this would happen , if something is better you mush have tampered with it.
And good that someone dare to say some facts here.


----------



## Dj Dee

CRT


Digital


CRT


Digital


----------



## mp20748

LOL..LOL... I posted those shots, especially the very dark ones (made to look bad on purpose), to show someone that you would grab them and do a comparison..

You took the bait..

Exactly what are you accomplishing when it has been well established many times, even yourself speaking on the uselessness of screenshots for comparison.

We'll just let you have your fun...but would like to remind what Seeg said who owned an X500 and what Eric said concerning film based material and the X500. So with that any comparisons would be senseless and to accomplish what? 






Dj Dee said:


> CRT
> 
> 
> Digital
> 
> 
> CRT
> 
> 
> Digital


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> LOL..LOL... I posted those shots, especially the very dark ones (made to look bad on purpose), to show someone that you would grab them and do a comparison..
> 
> You took the bait..
> 
> Exactly what are you accomplishing when it has been well established many times, even yourself speaking on the uselessness of screenshots for comparison.
> 
> We'll just let you have your fun...but would like to remind what Seeg said who owned an X500 and what Eric said concerning film based material and the X500. So with that any comparisons would be senseless and to accomplish what?


You have every right to take new 
And you came with excuses. 
And I think the pictures speak for themselves.
If you take new wont be much different. 
And yes the X500 is useless for film material I see that.
Screenshots are and will be useless, so why do you post so much?
What will you accomplish?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> You have every right to take new
> And you came with excuses.
> And I think the pictures speak for themselves.
> If you take new wont be much different.
> And yes the X500 is useless for film material I see that.
> Screenshots are and will be useless, so why do you post so much?
> What will you accomplish?



Ok, so you want a competition. Count me on board, but first you'll need to NOT Copy and any of my shots. Just post your shots in a page and let whoever is interested look at them either in separate comparisons, or they themselves can copy them to their PC and compare. Whenever you touch a shot you destroy it's resolution features. That's a fact.

OK, so start with you just posting the same shots I've already posted in the other thread. But don't use the bait shots because they are obviously and intentionally bad. Use ALL of the last batch from the same disk and the exact same shots each. And then, when my turn comes, you will have to post the same amount that I've posted, and that's when I will post the same shots on this thread. I will not touch your shots, you do not touch mine -- agree..

Let's have some fun - those are my terms. If you agree, we're going to war (as the thread title says)


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Ok, so you want a competition. Count me on board, but first you'll need to NOT Copy and any of my shots. Just post your shots in a page and let whoever is interested look at them either in separate comparisons, or they themselves can copy them to their PC and compare. Whenever you touch a shot you destroy it's resolution features. That's a fact.
> 
> OK, so start with you just posting the same shots I've already posted in the other thread. But don't use the bait shots because they are obviously and intentionally bad. Use ALL of the last batch from the same disk and the exact same shots each. And then, when my turn comes, you will have to post the same amount that I've posted, and that's when I will post the same shots on this thread. I will not touch your shots, you do not touch mine -- agree..
> 
> 
> Let's have some fun - those are my terms. If you agree, we're going to war (as the thread title says)


Hehe, use those 2 I put up now they are easy for CRT not much sharpness. As long as you klick on the picture you get it like it is.
What I do with the picture just cuts away black bars, told you before.
I wait in excitement for these 2 shots. I will put up screen cap so we can see how it shall look.


----------



## mp20748

Let me know when you've posted the same shots I've posted in the other thread to this thread. Stop trying convince me that the shots are not being downgraded when you do whatever you've been doing.

So to start, you have to post the same shots that I've already posted here in this thread, and for all who are interested, let them do the comparisons. But using someone else shot in anyway violates the rules. I'll be away for awhile, but can't wait to see what the X500 looks like with those particular shot.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Let me know when you've posted the same shots I've posted in the other thread to this thread. Stop trying convince me that the shots are not being downgraded when you do whatever you've been doing.
> 
> So to start, you have to post the same shots that I've already posted here in this thread, and for all who are interested, let them do the comparisons. But using someone else shot in anyway violates the rules. I'll be away for awhile, but can't wait to see what the X500 looks like with those particular shot.


Use mine you can hug it but not zoom in. Mine are made to watch in full screen, do what you want. 
Screenshot are worthless and don't prove a thing.
But if yours look better than mine compared to the original screen cap. I have no problem to say that you won a picture war
Show me what your marquee can do.


----------



## mp20748

Let me know when you've posted the same shots from my last group..,.,,


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Let me know when you've posted the same shots from my last group..,.,,


I put up new that you have not taken yet.
Screen cap on its way soon.


----------



## Dj Dee

Here the JVC X500


----------



## mp20748

What are you doing???

Why are you posting screen-caps.. do I also find screen-caps and posts them?? How does screen-caps play a role here, when the title of the thread is "Screenshots War"

---------------------------

PJ posted this on the previous page bringing the thread into context:



Per Johnny said:


> The* thread name is *: *Screenshot war*
> 
> *Someone/s in here (crt section) is eager to claim that crt is still beating anything digital, so it should be fruitful in a friendly way post comparison screenshots.*
> 
> I like both crt and digital. Especially I love the people who still pursue to better the performance of crt.


This is your response to PJ's post:



Dj Dee said:


> I like both to Per J. *You are so right so right.
> I knew that this would happen , if something is better you mush have tampered with it.
> And good that someone dare to say some facts here*.


So I responded taking you up on wanting to do exactly what PJ suggested and pointed out what THIS thread is all about... so I put my rules on the table... and for some reason we've gotten off topic again and deviated from the title of the thread.

Here again is what I'll need to happen if you want the mentioned comparison to take place using my setup. The same I've already listed previously...

Here ya go:

- Do not copy my shots or touch them in any way.

- Use the last batch of shots that I posted to start things off.

- You post from your setup the same scenes from each of your shots here in the screenshot thread.

- After you post those same shots from your setup, you can then capture "ANY" scenes from the same Blu Ray and I'll likewise post here in this same thread from my setup the comparison shots.

That's my rules and the only condition I'll participate only if the above and following are agreed to: No screen-caps, no copying/cutting/sizing/cropping/etc others shots for side by side or top/bottom comparisons. 

When I see your shots of the same scenes that I've posted in the other thread, I chime back in here. If you don't kick this off using those same shots first, count me out of this..


----------



## markrubin

we really need to move on so others can participate here


----------



## DrDon

Per Johnny said:


> The thread name is : Screenshot war


Let's keep it to CRT devices (projectors, especially) as that is the section this thread is in. If you want to argue comparisons, start a thread for that. 

Thanks.


----------



## chrisreeves

Is there still anything to debate on CRT vs the best digitals except for motion resolution?


----------



## Per Johnny

I hope I see a lot more screenshots from MP and Wolfman. Their latest contributions here have convinced me to probaly get a 9 inch crt projector in 2016.


----------



## thewolfman

Per Johnny said:


> I hope I see a lot more screenshots from MP and Wolfman. Their latest contributions here have convinced me to probaly get a 9 inch crt projector in 2016.


Thanks, PJ!  

I think you would be very happy with one, and seeing how cheap they are these days it's shame more don't give them a try.

I'm too in the works of installing a red c-element, and a little anxious about it, but I'm committed now as it's on the way. I use a simple red filter now and wonder if it will make any difference. Personally I'll hold on the screenshots until I have played around with the new camera a lot more.


----------



## mp20748

screen shots


----------



## Citation4444

*Remembering my CRT days*

These shots are from 2009 when I had a stack of 2 Barco Cine9's. I used two Lumagen VP's to match colorimetry and gamma, and spent a lot of time on geometry to get the images to be as identical as possible. I had a very bright, natural image which was very enjoyable while it lasted. But, these beasts were huge, heavy, and too much for an old man to handle, so I sold them and went digital. Here are some pics from the stack.


----------



## g-man5.1

Citation

those look fantastic!


----------



## Curt Palme

Hey Citation, can you message me at curtpalme at shaw.ca

I've been running a 909 stack for a year now, and have a couple of questions.

Thanks!


----------



## Citation4444

Curt Palme said:


> Hey Citation, can you message me at curtpalme at shaw.ca
> 
> I've been running a 909 stack for a year now, and have a couple of questions.
> 
> Thanks!


Sure, message on its way.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

g-man5.1 said:


> Citation
> 
> those look fantastic!


Ok not counting the amount of variables that affect screenshots for comparisons and therefore their actual value....what exactly do you feel is fantastic about those samples? Honest question here.


----------



## chrisreeves

You guys seriously - what is there left that CRT can do better than high end digitals - such as the 4K Sony's - except for motion resolution? What can a highly tuned 9" CRT do better than my Sony VPL-VW1100ES? Or a 2016 JVC?


----------



## g-man5.1

of variables that affect screenshots for comparisons and therefore their actual value....what exactly do you feel is fantastic about those samples? Honest question here.[/QUOTE]

To my eyes I like how the images look. I didn't see where he was engaging in a comparison. He was simply posting screenshots of the setup he used to have. Therefore I see no need to explain to you or anyone else why I find the shots pleasing.


----------



## g-man5.1

chrisreeves said:


> You guys seriously - what is there left that CRT can do better than high end digitals - such as the 4K for motion resolution? What can a highly tuned 9" CRT do better than my Sony VPL-VW1100ES? Or a 2016 JVC?



I would love to see a high end digital projector but unfortunately there's no place within three hours of where I live to see one. That's why I find the digital subforum so valuable as I decide which model best fits my needs.


----------



## Luis Gabriel Gerena

g-man5.1 said:


> of variables that affect screenshots for comparisons and therefore their actual value....what exactly do you feel is fantastic about those samples? Honest question here.





> To my eyes I like how the images look. I didn't see where he was engaging in a comparison. He was simply posting screenshots of the setup he used to have. Therefore I see no need to explain to you or anyone else why I find the shots pleasing.


So defensive now..what's the need to be so cranky and rude? But hey, if it makes you happy then good for you.
Regards


----------



## maf12

chrisreeves said:


> You guys seriously - what is there left that CRT can do better than high end digitals - such as the 4K Sony's - except for motion resolution? What can a highly tuned 9" CRT do better than my Sony VPL-VW1100ES? Or a 2016 JVC?


I am using two highly tuned 9" CRTs (Madrigal MP-9) in a blend configuration on a 12 foot wide 2:40:1 screen. I have been very satisfied with this CRT setup. I have also owned high end JVC digitals. To me digital or CRT is a matter of preference and satisfaction to the user of the technology. Choose what suits you best in your home theater setup.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## chrisreeves

What are you guys trying to show with these screenshots? Sorry - you just seem to be an odd little sub-culture here at AVS these days so I'm wondering what you CRT guys are up to.


----------



## ElTopo

chrisreeves said:


> What are you guys trying to show with these screenshots? Sorry - you just seem to be an odd little sub-culture here at AVS these days so I'm wondering what you CRT guys are up to.


May it be possible that you never had any CRT ?

If so you will never know what a CRT picture looks like in comparison to the present digitals.

It's 2016 and CRT is still here !


----------



## kal

ElTopo said:


> If so you will never know what a CRT picture looks like in comparison to the present digitals.


... so we take pictures with our cameras that have extremely limited stops (dynamic range) as compared to any projector (digital or CRT) and then show it to you in lower resolution on your screen that isn't colour calibrated.

All this lets you see something that doesn't look at all like it really does in person. 



(Sorry, couldn't resist).

Kal


----------



## Mr Bob

Except for the crispness and dynamic punch, Kal. We can see definite differences between schlocky and sizzling, on our monitors.

Did you get a chance to see the dynamic punch of ovrclkr's triple G90 stack? It was definitely a step up from any normal pic we see on this thread. Credit for this highly challenging calibration of 3 projectors/9 guns all aimed at the same screen - and coming off crisper than crisp, incredibly so - goes to intrepid calibrator Ken Whitcomb.

I am sure you could not resist Kal, because everything you said was true! Yer right. But give the devil his due, there are still SOME things we can actually savor in using our computer monitors -



b


----------



## Mr Bob

I will be in Everett WA on Saturday the 16th, coming up in about 10 days, restoring the picture on my very first HDTV, the year 2000 CRT triple-scanrate - last of its kind - 65" Panasonic now owned by Dave L in Everett. He moved it about 8', then moved it back, and somehow something went amiss and his convergence got messed up on all 3 scanrates. When I had dialed it in after the 11 hour truck drive up from East Bay here last year when he drove down here and bought it from me, its picture had been restored to stealth grade, age had not diminished it a whit. Absolutely stunning picture. He is also having me do his Kuro. 

I would love to meet with other display owners there and in the Seattle area, esp. CRT owners of both projection and direct view. Please contact me if you'd like to get together. Esp. if I have done work on your Pioneer Elite's - or non-Elite's - PS board from far away and you are still enjoying your set to the max, years later. Or if you had me replace your convergence ICs along the way. Or if we ever did optics cleaning together over the phone.

Mr Bob


----------



## chrisreeves

ElTopo said:


> May it be possible that you never had any CRT ?
> 
> If so you will never know what a CRT picture looks like in comparison to the present digitals.
> 
> It's 2016 and CRT is still here !


I've never had a 9" - which is why I am curious. Years ago I had a Sony 1271 but that's obviously not in the same league as a 9"

The reason I ask is because for many years it was universally acknowledged that 9" CRT's were king of the image quality hill - despite digital slowly catching up.

But I thought it was the case that the last 3 years CRT's had finally been equaled in black level due to the development of JVC's LCOS panels and Sony's SXRD combined with high quality dynamic irises. And I thought CRT had been equaled or beaten in all other metrics (shadow detail, color accuracy, resolution) except motion resolution.

To be clear I'm not talking about mid-line digitals - just the latest/greatest JVC's and the 4K Sony's. I'll leave out 3-chip high end DLP from Sim2 and others because the black levels still leave a lot to be desired.

Is this not the case?

I was considering a G90 or G90 stack last year since I can finally afford them - but was advised against it by former owners who said even the G90 was finally dethroned by Sony's own 4K all-glass lens monster, the 1000ES/1100ES.

I would love to see a high end, finely tuned 9" CRT in action in person - and if anybody's in Southern California I'd bring my 1100ES along to do a shoot out if you like.


----------



## redfox001

You know these exponential functions where things increase a lot at start and a little at the end. With 9 inch top CRT and top digital the differences are simple much smaller there is no room for massive improvement. It becomes personal what you prefer the most.


----------



## redfox001

One of the things that caught my surprise after watching dark scenes with my modified Marquee with MP mods is that the blacklevel is so very natural following a natural gamma curve. I used to have posterization on all my digitals when I calibrated to get the best shadow detail. Now I have very much shadow detail I do not need more and no singel banding or posterization. Those things make me love CRT still. When searching the internet I read that there are some posterization problems with the VW1000 and I think yes of cause that is why they need 10 bit. We do not really need it with CRT. Also the HDR movement. With CRT we have white peaking. In a dark scene that drop of sweat on the mans face is very light and because I do not get the full white brightness the iris in my eyes stay open and I see a lot of punch. With my digitals there was more light but I was missing this white peaking and now I read that HDR is coming and I think we do not need it with CRT. And than more the 4k 8k or whatever. There was a huge difference between dvd and 1080p. There is only a very small difference between 4k and 1080p. On digitals it reduces the screendoor but again we do not have that on CRT 

White peaking: powersupply puts out more power on smaller white area, peaklumens.


----------



## mp20748

I just finished another version of the mods. This final set is slightly different. There is NO peaking on the 02 VIM. None. 

The video chain is totally direct coupled from the DAC to the CRT's, which allows only one pedestal (black reference) and that also comes from the DAC on the Moome card. It has near perfect linearity, and exceptional low end performance. I will be playing with it most likely through this month and maybe the next, and watching a many movies.. 

Now, there are some very noticeable problems that can easily be seen in the shots. My Control Module is defective... it may not show in the shots, but after warm-up the image takes on waving lines that terrible distorts the image. It also has a problem on the Moome card that causes too much green in the image, so with that, of course it's not calibrated. I just felt like posting a few shots..


----------



## Mr Bob

redfox001 said:


> One of the things that caught my surprise after watching dark scenes with my modified Marquee with MP mods is that the blacklevel is so very natural following a natural gamma curve. I used to have posterization on all my digitals when I calibrated to get the best shadow detail. Now I have very much shadow detail I do not need more and no singel banding or posterization. Those things make me love CRT still. When searching the internet I read that there are some posterization problems with the VW1000 and I think yes of cause that is why they need 10 bit. We do not really need it with CRT. Also the HDR movement. With CRT we have white peaking. In a dark scene that drop of sweat on the mans face is very light and because I do not get the full white brightness the iris in my eyes stay open and I see a lot of punch. With my digitals there was more light but I was missing this white peaking and now I read that HDR is coming and I think we do not need it with CRT. And than more the 4k 8k or whatever. There was a huge difference between dvd and 1080p. There is only a very small difference between 4k and 1080p. On digitals it reduces the screendoor but again we do not have that on CRT
> 
> White peaking: powersupply puts out more power on smaller white area, peaklumens.


On digital isn't there still an issue with solarization? Or is that the same as posterization? 

Thresholding. 

By that I mean seeing steps and levels in graduated brightness, like when something bright is fading to black all around it and you see the platforms as it steps down over and over again, going out from center, in its brightness. Which you don't seen in CRT unless it's there already in the program material. 

On CRT there are no steps or platforming in the gradual gradations, it just reduces the brightness naturally as it goes out from center, like it does in real life.


----------



## redfox001

Mr Bob said:


> On digital isn't there still an issue with solarization? Or is that the same as posterization?
> 
> Thresholding.
> 
> By that I mean seeing steps and levels in graduated brightness, like when something bright is fading to black all around it and you see the platforms as it steps down over and over again, going out from center, in its brightness. Which you don't seen in CRT unless it's there already in the program material.
> 
> On CRT there are no steps or platforming in the gradual gradations, it just reduces the brightness naturally as it goes out from center, like it does in real life.


Yes that is true. I think is is caused by the iris and the gamma push that they need because they can not naturally resolve the black levels.

Digital has another problem and that is motion blur. Things get unsharp when they are moving. You need 1000Hz frames with black insertion to get the same motion resolution as CRT has.


----------



## redfox001

Of cause CRT has a somewhat softer look compared to digital because even after 100% resolving the bandwidth the beam still adds a Gaussian blur. With digital this blur is absent but there is also a mistake because with CRT the video dac makes a sinus from the 1 on 1 off pixel testpattern and it should but the digital makes it into a rectangle, pixels that should in fact be invisible. So perhaps the digital is more off to the sharp side while the CRT is more of to the soft side. With 4k upsampling the digital seem to solve this problem. The CRT can solve their problem by using ultra sharp phosphor lug tubes and focussing techniques. That is why I think the Barco 909 should have 100% bandwidth to solve both problems.


----------



## Dude111

How good is a screenshot thread like this WHEN WE ARE VIEWING DIGITALLY??

Doesnt make any sense... We wont be able to truly see analogue screen shots! (Not the way they really look anyway)


----------



## Mr Bob

True, but HD content is all digital too, yet we see big differences between digital and analog displays of that HD.

If you go thru this thread a few years back, you'll see many examples of analog vs. digital. Keith 2000 I think it was, liked his digital JVC's picture so much he was willing to duke it out with us here on this thread a few years ago, and many of the same frame shot were sent in for comparison purposes.

Just like in audio, a DAC works both ways. Difference is that with HD, the digital HD info has to get back to being analog before we CRT users can see it. Just like in audio.

If this were all pointless because it's on our monitors as digital, you would not see the stark differences you see in the digital/analog shootouts on this thread.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Dj Dee

redfox001 said:


> Yes that is true. I think is is caused by the iris and the gamma push that they need because they can not naturally resolve the black levels.
> 
> Digital has another problem and that is motion blur. Things get unsharp when they are moving. You need 1000Hz frames with black insertion to get the same motion resolution as CRT has.


 
Originally a pro digital today uses in 24 frames pr sec 72Hz and 96Hz and with motion engaged 120Hz in LOW setting that is the only one you can use. Every other setting you get the soap opera effect.. Sony 4K projectors uses 96 and new jvc uses 96 also. And then the new RS500/x7000 and RS600/x9000 also use 96. And yes you get some motion blur in very fast scenes if using CMD/motion enhancer. But almost not visible if you just live with it. This is what you prefer. 


*This is said on other forum very true and well said.* 


*Tim in Phoenix*






*Link* Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:11 am Post subject:  
Guys 
 This entire thread is getting tiresome, and proves nothing. MP Mods are useful up to a point, so give it a long rest eh?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## ElTopo

Flesh tones look incredible.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## racerxnet

Thought I would post a couple shots from my 8500. Men in Black 3. Hand held camera.


----------



## alebonau

nice movie star trek into the darkness, a few screen shots of jvc x7000, uhd blu-ray vs blu-ray see if you can pick

1A.


Spoiler



Blu-ray











 
1B.


Spoiler



UHD Blu-ray


 








 
2A.


Spoiler



Blu-ray


 








 
2B.


Spoiler



UHD Blu-ray











 
3A.


Spoiler



UHD Blu-ray











 
3B.


Spoiler



Blu-ray











 
 
4A.  


Spoiler



UHD Blu-ray











 
4B.


Spoiler



Blu-ray











 
5A.  


Spoiler



UHD Blu-ray











 
5B.


Spoiler



Blu-ray


----------



## Gregstv

Couple of shots from the old Barco just before I upgraded it.


----------



## cmjohnson

Yes, I have seen solarization with a CRT projector. When viewing a digital signal, of course. DVDs definitely can show solarization, but the increased color depth of blu-ray/HD makes it much less likely that you'll see solarization. 

But even with HD sources, in some cases you can still see a little of it. It's much easier to see directly on the CRT face than in the projected image. I've seen for myself that solarization is most apparent in the blue CRT. And least so in the green.

I don't know but I suspect that it could be due to the video mastering engineer choosing to devote more bandwidth to the green channel, and less to the blue channel, as the eye is less sensitive to a loss of resolution or change in brightness in the blue range, while it's most sensitive in the green range.


----------



## Zimbalo

*Plasma Pics*


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## CineConcepts

Wow...is possible to take this picture out of a standard Cine 9 or you have some mods?


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


>



Hi mp20748 it looks to me like your Electrohome have some vertical banding or "ringing" problem in the left side of this picture. Have some of the same problem on my electrohome 8500 ultra with [email protected] 

Here are some of my 8" electrohome pictures


----------



## ask4me2

The same Lucy pictures from my JVC HD100....


----------



## Bachiano

I think I prefer the CRT


----------



## ask4me2

Bachiano said:


> I think I prefer the CRT


Yes Bachiano, CRT is still interesting to use and see movies on.

Just took some more CRT screenshot, these are from my Sony G90.

I Love the CRT blackout between different senes and the analog film fealing in "Old" classic movies with filmgrain like top gun etc. 

Othe factors like 1050W power consumtion, heat, fan noise, convergence, multiple focus systems, heavy lifting for cealing mounting etc. is some of the disantvantages with these 110 kg beasts. 


A digital JVC HD100 D-ILA with native 1920x1080 and 10000:1 - 30000:1 contrast without iris pumping and fitted with a ISCO 3 anamorpic lens and CIH 2,35:1 screen have some advantages too...


----------



## Bachiano

10000:1 - 30000:1 contrast , with out an iris .
You think that is good enough ???


----------



## ask4me2

Bachiano said:


> 10000:1 - 30000:1 contrast , with out an iris .
> You think that is good enough ???


More is better, but I think a calibrated "lamp valve" projector with better than 10000:1 in native contrast starts to look ok.

The on/off contrast for a 9" LC CRT projectors is maybe "infinity:1" if mesuared with a lumens number divided by 0, but the actual contrast for the projector showing a picture with some information is something else. 

3x white forsfor surfaces with the generated picture information between them in series with 3x wide open F1.15 lenses only with som color corrected C-elements for two of them, may have some internal light polution problems for the actual picture contrast. For example In the Barco Cine9 broshure the Contrast Ratio was rated to >1000:1


----------



## mp20748




----------



## ask4me2

Here is some more pictures from the G90


----------



## plain fan

Wow, it's been a while....are you guys running 1080p or something higher now that we have UHD?


----------



## mp20748

plain fan said:


> Wow, it's been a while....are you guys running 1080p or something higher now that we have UHD?


Me, it's 1080P


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nidi

*Great Pics from the G90*



ask4me2 said:


> Here is some more pictures from the G90


The G90 pictures look great!

Really Hi-Res compared to the others posted recently.


----------



## mp20748

nidi said:


> The G90 pictures look great!
> 
> Really Hi-Res compared to the others posted recently.


Post your shots. let us see what your stock boards can do..


----------



## nidi

1080P 72hz 195Mhz 11,5fl on 110" neutral gain screen


----------



## mp20748

That was nice of you to post that poorly resolved 1080P /72 shot, but why considering it's even showing the enhancement that's going on. It's really simple to understand, or maybe I should help out here. Look at the hair strains, then you'll know why I post those shots. Here is another one, look at the oil or glow/shine of the skin.

I can go on, but that is for sure a poorly resolved shot. Ok, one more. Hair will easily reveal if there is any enhancement (distorted single stains), and though that is most likely calibrated, why is the beard not showing Grey Hair...you see when a shot is properly resolved, that grey hair will show it's natural color, meaning that you should be able to see both *white* and *silver* very distinctly.


----------



## nidi

or is this screenshot better than the one posted before?


----------



## ask4me2

plain fan said:


> Wow, it's been a while....are you guys running 1080p or something higher now that we have UHD?


The G90 runs at [email protected] into a moome card directy by from old Pioneer BD player...

UHD needs a lot more bandwidth and resolution from the optics etc. than any 9" CRT was constructed to use, so its hard enough to try to get a desent "sharp" 1080p resoluted picture from these as it is.... 

I think it's still quite nice to use CRT in 2018 and see some movies on from time to time, but compared to lampe valves of today from JVC etc. both set up correct, the G90 is shockingly soft and it is hard to justify using time and money on CRT projectors if picture quality is the main target.


----------



## mp20748

It's better in intensity, but it's still revealing the shortcomings of the video chain...

Get back to the beard, and not only notice how poorly the hair strains are being resolved, let's go one further and look at the White Clipping, in the beard. That blooming white is showing something a little different that's also important with bandwidth performance. It's showing a lack of dynamic range... or to put it another way, that video chain would fail the 100IRE ramp test (dynamics).

The ability to both resolve the lines and at the same time produce an 100IRE window (no peaking/clipping), which becomes even harder to do the higher you go above 1080P /72. My shot shows PERFECT reproduction of it all, and it's NOT calibrated.


Oops, I forgot to add.... the Marquee video chain would have to be modified to solve that clipping problem. That is what I've been saying about changing the GAIN STRUCTURE...the change would move certain parts of the signal chain from PC based video to 1080P HD (Digital Component video)


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> The G90 pictures look great!
> 
> Really Hi-Res compared to the others posted recently.


 

The G90 pictures is of a 92" screen, so the picture brightness from a small screen like that makes the photographing somewhat easy and not pushing the tubes make them sharper.

I will say these pictures looks Hi-res util they are compared side by side to the BD-cap or same screen pictures form projectors that actually can resolve the 1080p source material correctly.... 

I do love the 35mm analog film look CRT projectors can produce + the full fade to black etc.


----------



## thewolfman

nidi said:


> or is this screenshot better than the one posted before?


Better colors on MP and hope I get the same. Very cinematique to the Eye. Especially 5677..


----------



## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> Better colors on MP and hope I get the same. Very cinematique to the Eye. Especially 5677..


Yes, it is more intense and colorful and that is what I meant on the other forum that it looked like a giant CRT image. That batch of shots were all taking with the contrast boosted, because I was dealing with lowering the clipping. But over the next few days, I'll be doing a calibration to show how well the 100IRE windows shows even through the shots. 


And yes, you will get that same intensity for sure.


----------



## mp20748

This entire movie is loaded with both EE and clipping.


----------



## nidi




----------



## mp20748

More up-scaled DVD Nidi, is that a new fad among you guys?


----------



## nidi




----------



## mp20748

Oh, more sharpness test. Well, If I too had Darbee (digital sharpening and enhancement), this would make since. But since the nature of High Definition is beyond the foreground (close ups). Then I'll say we move to showing how well the video chain would perform capturing the entire image, all things behind the foreground, is where the HD really reveals itself. You're already proven that your up-scaled DVD can be sharp, though when you look at it from at a distance it's looks dull and flat. that might be because it's not Blu Ray but plain DVD.

So, let's focus on capturing scenes that reveal things like "depth" and "detail" that would be equal through-out the entire image. And we should also look at how well it resolve colors. You shots is doing a terrible job, because the is a tan hue over the entire image, it's even on the silver helmet the guy is wearing. Look at my shot and you'll notice there isn't a hue over the image, and though my setup is not calibrated, the colors are more robust and accurate (look at the blood). 

I have to find my DVE Blu Ray and then I'll show you what I'm talking about once I get those colors dialed in. I'll also show you why it's important to actually have a video chain that can properly resolve the entire image (which is the nature of HD).


----------



## nidi




----------



## mp20748

let's try this another way...you're posting comparisons that was done by someone who would only show the shots showing their setup being better. Meaning also they could alter or tamper with the two to make one appear better even if that was not the case. And that's why things like that is ALWAYS done using someone who has no vested interest in either of the two.

Not sure why you guys keeps allowing this kind of thing to happen, which would be very similar to GM and Ford road testing their cars against the other in a race, and then allow an from Ford to be the sole guy to confirm and judge all testing and results. Where is the fairness in this?
So from now on just post whatever shot you would want to post, and to be fair, stop doing the comparisons, because there is no way they can be proven to be factual.
Already, there is a muted color image that flat (zero depth) meaning it is not true HD in nature. And the only thing that’s being pointed out is the foreground sharpness, which is very subjective and suspect, because the comparison was improperly done. But that does not bother me more than having to ignore that their image looks very Standard DVD. And with all there is to HD image quality, THE ONLY thing that can be pointed out from that muted image projector is maybe foreground sharpness, and that not as good really to be tooting a horn about, because we know well how easy it is the enhance and degrade a shot. 
Hopefully one day, someone will come out other than myself with boards that can truly and 100% resolve 1080P. So well, that I have not touched the focus of setup in more than 6 months. Now, how would things bee if I really dialed them in…well since there is no real reason to do so, because that muted and bland image fails in so many other attributes, it would be a waste of time to go further with this.

So Nidi, and since you can’t post from your own projector as to what you were asked, do me a favor and stop posting my shots next to those Standard Definition DVD shots.

I connected and fired up my best Blu Ray player this morning. It rocks, and maybe after I find that DVE disk, I’ll show you what a true 1080P projector should look like. 
When you guys get a true 1080P signal chain, let me know..


----------



## CaptKid

mp20748 said:


> I have to find my DVE Blu Ray and then I'll show you what I'm talking about once I get those colors dialed in.


Your screen shots have never been from a PJ with dialed in colors so doubtful that will ever happen. BTW- what you are criticizing as upscaled DVD is a source file....


----------



## mp20748

CaptKid said:


> Your screen shots have never been from a PJ with dialed in colors so doubtful that will ever happen


Not true at all. It's been happening a many times in this same thread, but years ago. And once or twice last year.




> BTW- what you are criticizing as upscaled DVD is a source file....


Well, don't fault me for that, because that is what it was refereed on the AVF forum, where that first shot that Nidi posted comparing to mine was the same thing they did on the other forum. This one here has the same look about it. 

So when Nidi was asked to post a shot from his projector, he posted a "source file" instead...hmm


----------



## CaptKid

mp20748 said:


> Well, don't fault me for that, because that is what it was refereed on the AVF forum, where that first shot that Nidi posted comparing to mine was the same thing they did on the other forum. This one here has the same look about it.
> 
> So when Nidi was asked to post a shot from his projector, he posted a "source file" instead...hmm



The fact you didn't realize that speaks volumes about your ability to assess image quality. Quite frankly, you are in no position to be criticizing others.


----------



## mp20748

CaptKid said:


> The fact you didn't realize that speaks volumes about your ability to assess image quality. Quite frankly, you are in no position to be criticizing others.


They had previously indicated what they were, and there was no mention of a "source file" and how would you associate a source file with "image quality" here?


----------



## Racerxnet55

mp20748 said:


> They had previously indicated what they were, and there was no mention of a "source file" and how would you associate a source file with "image quality" here?


Because the source file is the reference for color reproduction/image quality as the director intended. Your chain shows that it is neither calibrated, and shows lack of detail where there should be. CaptKid is correct, you will never be able to show your GREAT mods and bandwidth because you lack the complete scientific skill set to show in a scientific manner that your mods can reproduce the image quality as the director/chain was meant to show. The detail around the eye is a easy shot to show lack of detail in your image. 

MAK


----------



## mp20748

Racerxnet55 said:


> Because the source file is the reference for color reproduction/image quality as the director intended


Ok, but how would that play here on a screenshot thread, knowing you would be comparing a RAW reference to something that involves a multiple chain of technological events for comparison. I'll slow this down for you.... there is the raw source (source file) and that is being compared to a studio recording onto Blu Ray, that is also put into a Blu Ray player, and then is digitally transcoded from digital component HD video to an RGB analog output (moome card), that at that point goes into the video chain of the CRT projector, which is also converted from there onto a screen, by way of Cathode Ray Ray Tubes and then involves lenses, magnetics, alignments, calibrations and if that is not enough, there is also a cheap handheld camera that captures what's projected on the screen, and further process the signal in that handheld device that requires no calibration or verification to confirm that it is not altering the signal at all. So with all that, we have a RAW source being posted directly to the forum, that's being compared to a Blu Ray, that even before it was inserted into the Blu ray player, it had more than 10 chains of events it had to go through...now simply include the multiple and various chain of events, items, stages, changes, lenses, setup, calibrations, and that tiny little camera. And I would like for both of you two geniuses to tell me why would I RAW source file even be posted on a Screenshot Shootout Thread? But the better question should be who in their right mind would expect the the two to be a fair comparison...and you say "I lack the complete scientific skill set to show in a scientific manner" no, I have the scientific skill set to know comparing such files is not only idiotic, but it's just defies plain ole common sense. 



> Your chain shows that it is neither calibrated, and shows lack of detail where there should be. CaptKid is correct, you will never be able to show your GREAT mods and bandwidth because you lack the complete scientific skill set to show in a scientific manner that your mods can reproduce the image quality as the director/chain was meant to show. The detail around the eye is a easy shot to show lack of detail in your image


This entire thread whole intent was for FUN or something to do. In no way could it ever merit of fall in line with anything that would require technical results, mainly because of the multiple chain of events one goes through in comparison to the other, to include, it cannot even be fair when you'll not using the same camera, room, screen, and setup experience...so see I do possess the skill set to know better than to expect something scientific out of something that would be impossible to properly validate in science.

So do you finally get it why this whole screenshot thing should never be seen as something that science could possible put its numbers to..


----------



## Racerxnet55

mp20748 said:


> Racerxnet55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the source file is the reference for color reproduction/image quality as the director intended
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, but how would that play here on a screenshot thread, knowing you would be comparing a RAW reference to something that involves a multiple chain of technological events for comparison. I'll slow this down for you.... there is the raw source (source file) and that is being compared to a studio recording onto Blu Ray, that is also put into a Blu Ray player, and then is digitally transcoded from digital component HD video to an RGB analog output (moome card), that at that point goes into the video chain of the CRT projector, which is also converted from there onto a screen, by way of Cathode Ray Ray Tubes and then involves lenses, magnetics, alignments, calibrations and if that is not enough, there is also a cheap handheld camera that captures what's projected on the screen, and further process the signal in that handheld device that requires no calibration or verification to confirm that it is not altering the signal at all. So with all that, we have a RAW source being posted directly to the forum, that's being compared to a Blu Ray, that even before it was inserted into the Blu ray player, it had more than 10 chains of events it had to go through...now simply include the multiple and various chain of events, items, stages, changes, lenses, setup, calibrations, and that tiny little camera. And I would like for both of you two geniuses to tell me why would I RAW source file even be posted on a Screenshot Shootout Thread? But the better question should be who in their right mind would expect the the two to be a fair comparison...and you say "I lack the complete scientific skill set to show in a scientific manner" no, I have the scientific skill set to know comparing such files is not only idiotic, but it's just defies plain ole common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your chain shows that it is neither calibrated, and shows lack of detail where there should be. CaptKid is correct, you will never be able to show your GREAT mods and bandwidth because you lack the complete scientific skill set to show in a scientific manner that your mods can reproduce the image quality as the director/chain was meant to show. The detail around the eye is a easy shot to show lack of detail in your image
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This entire thread whole intent was for FUN or something to do. In no way could it ever merit of fall in line with anything that would require technical results, mainly because of the multiple chain of events one goes through in comparison to the other, to include, it cannot even be fair when you'll not using the same camera, room, screen, and setup experience...so see I do possess the skill set to know better than to expect something scientific out of something that would be impossible to properly validate in science.
> 
> So do you finally get it why this whole screenshot thing should never be seen as something that science could possible put its numbers to../forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

I'll slow it down for you Mike. I've been working with color reproduction for 40 years and we have to account for the variables in the print process for every different press. That process is called fingerprinting. On the Goss, Harris, or other presses used, those dot gains are changed so that the final image from press matches the customer proof. This is to insure those variables are taken into consideration prior to the final printed piece. The science of color reproduction in projection/printing applies the same for both. If not, I would have a unhappy customer because the final image did not match as intended. Similar to what you display. If the science was not sound for either application, then we could not match the source from one device to another. REC 709 and others are there for a reason. As are other scientific methods. The source cap is a quick and easy way to compare reproduction even if niether are calibrated. It still shows the disparity of the 2 as intended. If you have the tools to calibrate then show the results from the file so we can see how well your mods track for the output. If not you are just huffing and puffing.

Mak


----------



## mp20748

Racerxnet55 said:


> If the science was not sound for either application, then we could not match the source from one device to another. REC 709 and others are there for a reason. As are other scientific methods. The source cap is a quick and easy way to compare reproduction even if niether are calibrated. It still shows the disparity of the 2 as intended. If you have the tools to calibrate then show the results from the file so we can see how well your mods track for the output. If not you are just huffing and puffing.
> 
> Mak


I have a question for you taking in consideration of what you just said here. But to add, let me tell you a little about my commercial experience and that to was for a many year. And yes, I'm very familiar with setting up display technology.

Here is my question: If two marquee 9500's or any other CRT or Digital projectors were set side by side pointed at a single wide screen for the purpose of a BLEND SETUP. If you calibrated projector 1 to REC709 or D6500, and did the same for projector 2, would both after all points of setup where perfect, be a complete match to each other. Or in other words, would both displays have perfect matching colors, hues, etc when you have established perfect REC709/D6500? This is for you MAK...


----------



## Racerxnet55

Mike,


The calibration is there to minimize the color discrepancies from unit to unit. If done properly, you will see very little variance and match the source. With a blend there is more to it in the blend zone that needs to be addressed due to the overlap of 2 images. That is why there are hardware and software controls when doing so. I am at work and don't have the time to elaborate further. Look it up if you desire. You make arguments that are baseless regarding calibration of your own equipment that may/can bolster your claims of color reproduction. I won't hold my breath in you accepting fact from fiction.


MAK


----------



## mp20748

Racerxnet55 said:


> Mike,
> 
> 
> The calibration is there to minimize the color discrepancies from unit to unit. If done properly, you will see very little variance and match the source. With a blend there is more to it in the blend zone that needs to be addressed due to the overlap of 2 images. That is why there are hardware and software controls when doing so. I am at work and don't have the time to elaborate further. Look it up if you desire. You make arguments that are baseless regarding calibration of your own equipment that may/can bolster your claims of color reproduction. I won't hold my breath in you accepting fact from fiction.
> 
> 
> MAK


I would suggest that you reach out to one of those really seasoned calibration experts, Like ken or Craig. The two guys that have a many years experience with setting up display devices, and likewise have those top notch and very expensive expert calibration tools. Speak to either of them, and bring up what I mentioned here about blended displays. And what they themselves have experienced. Theory is fine, but it depends on where it is relevant, because the experience of the experts and those who have plenty years in the field with the technology, will usually illuminate something entirely different on this subject. The tools and gear Both Ken and Craig are at minimum near 30 grand (30K). Craig is not only a calibration expert, he is the best of them that I know of, because his expertise is not only colors, setup and calibrations. he can take things to serous deeper levels. He has over the years added more advance and technical gear, where he can look at the source and the signals. get him to agree with you and I promise you I'll also get on board. But you would first have to get him convinced that there is ANY technical usefulness in playing with screenshots. That would also be the same case with Ken and any other true expert.


----------



## nidi

1080P 72Hz on a 110" neutral gain screen , 11,5fl


----------



## mp20748




----------



## elio

What is the purpose of this shot? Thought this was a screenshot war not who could post the most unrealistic shot possible. No wonder us Barco 909 owners don't post.


----------



## nidi

mp20748;56166534
said:


>


What's the light output on this shot?


----------



## mp20748

nidi said:


> What's the light output on this shot?



I have no idea. I turn on the projector, let it warm up a bit then set the camera on the tripod, and took two shots. That's it....so why are you asking?


----------



## Dj Dee

Your shot MP, you will also see that not one single color is even close.




This is the screen cap of this image. This is how the director wanted it to look, and how it shall look with a calibrated display.
So some "calibrating" like you are told by many many others, is for a reason MP.


Also result on the calibrating comes with knowledge, and how good your equipment is and if its profiled or not.. Then made a correct profile for the probe on the display you calibrate. With CRT I would recommend a meter that can resolve low light measurements for optimal results in the low end. 
.
Yes this is expensive, but if you calibrate alot its definitely worth it. I upgraded form a C6 to a Klein K10 A some time ago, and the correctness is visible and things go faster. Calibrated a G90 and a Cine9 with great results . Then this picture of the screen cap will be close what seen on screen then with color, debt and dynamics.
. 
A screen cap will seam to be more flat and boring looking compared to what seen here, then when you look at your PC screen. This is because of your monitor that don't show this picture with the right light output meant for it. Also not calibrated monitor maybe. I have calibrated my monitor to reference level. Can also be wise to put the camera to 6500 kelvin for more correct color used when capturing the image on screen. And I will bet that your image MP does not look like this on your screen, then your photo. This because not to much knowledge with your camera.


This is nothing to discuss when this is just logic, and basic picture knowledge. To like a un-calibrated picture is something totally difference. If you like more color "then after a calibrating" more correct would be Its just to add more with all 3 colors together. Then you will get some more oversaturated colors on every color in the whole picture. But you then don't have a perfect calibrated display anymore.


----------



## mp20748

You read the wrong comment DJ, I had never mentioned my shots were calibrated. Fact is, I've made it clear the projector IS NOT calibrated. Not only that, with that shot I switched to another Blu ray player. But considering my setup is far from calibrated, there is not much different than the two shots you posted together previously, you know where the CRT one also had brighter and redder colors, when it was also showing a comparison to a RAW file. You had actually proven my point, or the point I was trying to make when I had mentioned how difficult it would be to get a screenshot to perfectly match a RAW file , even knowing the CRT had been calibrated to REC709. Would you not agree with this? 



I just noticed the two images you had first posted here showing the soidier on the ground has been deleted, why did you delete it. It proved my point and that CRT projector was supposed to have been calibrated. Bring back that RAW file and post it with the CRT shot and help me make my point please..






Dj Dee said:


> Your shot MP, you will also see that not one single color is even close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the screen cap of this image. This is how the director wanted it to look, and how it shall look with a calibrated display.
> So some calibrating like you are told by many many others, is for a reason MP.
> Also result on the calibrating comes with knowledge, and how good your equipment used, and correct display. Then made a correct profile for the display your calibrating. On CRT I would recommend a meter that can resolve low light measurements for optimal results in the low end
> .
> Yes this is expensive, but if you calibrate much its definitely worth it. I upgraded form a C6 to a Klein K10 A some time ago, and the correctness is visible and things go faster. Calibrated a G90 and a Cine9 with great results . Then this picture of the screen cap will be close what seen on screen then with color
> .
> A screen cap will seam to be more flat and boring compared to what seen here, then when you look at your PC screen. This is because of your monitor that don't show this picture with the right light output meant for it. Also not calibrated. I have calibrated my monitor to reference level. Can also be wise to put the camera to 6500 kelvin for more correct color used when capturing the image on screen. And I will bet that your image MP does not look like this on your screen, then your photo. This because not to much knowledge with your camera.
> This is nothing to discuss when this is just logic. To like a uncelebrated picture is something totally difference. But if you like more color "then after a calibrating" Its just to add more with all 3 colors together. Then you will get some more oversaturated colors on every color in the whole picture. But you then don't have a perfect calibrated display anymore.


----------



## Dj Dee

True MP, very difficult to get a CRT to look like a screen cap. Then you have tampered with the picture in Photoshop with match color or other program. Like some do, and can be spotted easy.
I know that you don't calibrate, you see that form your pictures quite good. Or like I said don't use D65 in your camera.
So I might have read the wrong comment. But anyway I recommend you to calibrate your CRT. But if you have to old equipment and not profiled I might say don't.


I deleted the image, because I wanted to find the 1080P BD disk screen cap to see with this. Going to. 


No picture taken of a screen will show how good or bad your projector is in any way. If you get it "to good" something is done with it. I have seen so many top best of the best CRTs, and reasontly played with Cine9s. That was my wet dream many years back. Was still extreamly fun to se what it managed still so many years past.


So know quit well how good you can get it. Had a extremely talented person to do the adjustments. Modifications on a CRT will help to get a "total better image", like noise gone. As long as you have enough bandwidth for blueray 235:1 or 16/9 the image will be great. And a SonyG90 or Cine9 have enough if you don't stress the CRTs.


----------



## mp20748

Thank you Mr Dee.. 





Dj Dee said:


> True MP, very difficult to get a CRT to look like a screen cap. Then you have tampered with the picture in Photoshop with match color or other program. Like some do, and can be spotted easy.
> I know that you don't calibrate, you see that form your pictures quite good. Or like I said don't use D65 in your camera.
> So I might have read the wrong comment. But anyway I recommend you to calibrate your CRT. But if you have to old equipment and not profiled I might say don't.
> 
> 
> I deleted the image, because I wanted to find the 1080P BD disk screen cap to see with this. Going to.
> 
> 
> No picture taken of a screen will show how good or bad your projector is in any way. If you get it "to good" something is done with it. I have seen so many top best of the best CRTs, and reasontly played with Cine9s. That was my wet dream many years back. Was still extreamly fun to se what it managed still so many years past.
> 
> 
> So know quit well how good you can get it. Had a extremely talented person to do the adjustments. Modifications on a CRT will help to get a "total better image", like noise gone. As long as you have enough bandwidth for blueray 235:1 or 16/9 the image will be great. And a SonyG90 or Cine9 have enough if you don't stress the CRTs.


----------



## mp20748

back to my other Blu Ray Player, but have increased the contrast this time...


----------



## Dj Dee

Here the picture shown here and the screencap of the BD
Picture 1 nidi`s photo
Picture 2 Screen cap
Picture 3 side by side screen cap on the right.




Will say quit close to color, what projector was this?


----------



## mp20748

LOL... come on. The pictures were seriously different...who sent these to you..


Neither off these look lie a RAW file...come on Dee..







Dj Dee said:


> Here the picture shown here and the screencap of the BD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will say quit close to color, what projector was this?


----------



## Dj Dee

nidi said:


>


 
This is a screencap with blackbars removed from Nidi.


Here you se the screencap with blackbars. Also some differences in the movie and the correct frame. I have the re-mastered version.
Also to confirm its a screencap posted side by side.

https://postimg.cc/image/4190723kf/
https://postimg.cc/image/4190723kf/https://postimg.cc/image/4190723kf/


----------



## mp20748

This is the true one Dee. The image on the left (bottom) reveals that. It clearly is blurred and loaded with enhancements. The last one that Nidi sent is no the same as the one on the left, it looks just like the cap file you posted.


Also, why the close-up shots or facials. Nothing about them reveal HD and resolution. For resolution performance, you have to look at how well things are being done in the background. And based on the level of enhancement distortions, that's not going to happen 





mp20748 said:


> LOL... come on. The pictures were seriously different...who sent these to you..
> 
> 
> Neither off these look lie a RAW file...come on Dee..


----------



## mp20748

The two top ones are the same. The last shot Nidi sent is not that same as the one he sent previously. You're slipping, you usually catch this stuff..







Dj Dee said:


> This is a screencap with blackbars removed from Nidi.
> 
> 
> Here you se the screencap with blackbars. Also some differences in the movie and the correct frame. I have the re-mastered version.
> Also to confirm its a screencap posted side by side.


----------



## Dj Dee

No Mp checked they are correct.
Let me post again with markers on the images.
Read on the pictures.


----------



## Per Johnny

MikeParker, just to clarify that you understand the difference between a screencap and screenshot.

Regardsless of how the monitor you use are calibrated, a screencap of the original movie file and screenshot of the same frame, it will show the difference in color and gamma of the original frame from the screenshot. What you have to take account for, is that the screencap only downgrade from the original frame is the aretefacts of the codec used in the screencap vs the origonal codec of the bluray codec.

So if a screenshot shows exactly what are on your screen, and lets say that they show 100% correct color, greyscale, gamma and resolution. Then in theory, the screenshot and screencap should look identical regardless of the monitor used to view them on, as long as they are compared on the same monitor.


----------



## mp20748

That's what I saw as well. The last one being different. The wonders of Darbee and color correction in the Processor. You yourself have also stated that CRT cannot produce the same as caps. Who would know that better than you do, with your exception being the ability to tweak the image you say Photoshop, I'll add that a good processor will also allow some changes. PJ, thanks for that, it makes sense.. 


Do shots or scenes showing background detail, because that would be the only way you'll be able to evaluate the HD performance of a display setup..





Dj Dee said:


> No Mp checked they are correct.
> Let me post again with markers on the images.
> Read on the pictures.


----------



## Dj Dee

I'm not an expert at all MP just using logic and sense 


And if someone using Photoshop or other photo program on their photos, when in a screenshot war like this thread or others "you should get disqualified". No one will have any respect for you, so that's a bad idea. And what's the point of showing off something that is manipulated or full of processing? 
And I know that you don't or wont ever do any of this MP. 


Point must be to get max out of your projector and photo posted. A screen cap will be a good start for the screenshot to be best, combined with knowledge of the camera you using. 


*PJ described this well screen cap*
_Regardsless of how the monitor you use are calibrated, a screencap of the original movie file and screenshot of the same frame, it will show the difference in color and gamma of the original frame from the screenshot. What you have to take account for, is that the screencap only downgrade from the original frame is the aretefacts of the codec used in the screencap vs the origonal codec of the bluray codec.

So if a screenshot shows exactly what are on your screen, and lets say that they show 100% correct color, greyscale, gamma and resolution. Then in theory, the screenshot and screencap should look identical regardless of the monitor used to view them on, as long as they are compared on the same monitor. _




Don't let me stop you guys with the CRT screenshot war, I don't have a CRT up and running now, so no pictures will come from me before that happen. 
Less discussion and more pictures guys


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Do shots or scenes showing background detail, because that would be the only way you'll be able to evaluate the HD performance of a display setup..


The problem of using background details showing resolution from the BD movie sources etc., is to know the depth of field used in that particular shot. Think the best way to show how the CRT projector ( camera used codec etc for the screen shot) resolves details is to compare the CRT photographed picture directly side by side with the BD Cap ("raw" file) on the same PC monitor. 

Think the color error is one thing that can be slightly corrected with calibration of the CRT, but the camera have also it's own way of filtering out and creating a color file with the RGB filtered sensors where every pixel only have one primary color like this



and is convert to RGB (debayer) info in the pictures we on our monitor. I do agree with you mp20748 that it si next to impossible to match the color directly from a CRT in a digital camera if we do not make a LUT or somthing in the camera or do some "post production" to correct this.

When it comes to how good a CRT resolves the 1080p source, what is the reason of the left side vertical banding?
Have seen many Marquee screen photos with the ringing signature on the left side like this. Even modded for better and cleaner signal path have this..







Looks to me that the blue output is strugling and the picture get some "yellowish" on the side..

Is this not a symptom of pushing the projector far over its resolution limits, i have the same on my Marquee 8500 ultra, but the G90 have no problems with that on a standard [email protected] source.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> The problem of using background details showing resolution from the BD movie sources etc., is to know the depth of field used in that particular shot. Think the best way to show how the CRT projector ( camera used codec etc for the screen shot) resolves details is to compare the CRT photographed picture directly side by side with the BD Cap ("raw" file) on the same PC monitor.
> 
> Think the color error is one thing that can be slightly corrected with calibration of the CRT, but the camera have also it's own way of filtering out and creating a color file with the RGB filtered sensors where every pixel only have one primary color like this
> 
> 
> 
> and is convert to RGB (debayer) info in the pictures we on our monitor. I do agree with you mp20748 that it si next to impossible to match the color directly from a CRT in a digital camera if we do not make a LUT or somthing in the camera or do some "post production" to correct this.
> 
> When it comes to how good a CRT resolves the 1080p source, what is the reason of the left side vertical banding?
> Have seen many Marquee screen photos with the ringing signature on the left side like this. Even modded for better and cleaner signal path have this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks to me that the blue output is strugling and the picture get some "yellowish" on the side..
> 
> Is this not a symptom of pushing the projector far over its resolution limits, i have the same on my Marquee 8500 ultra, but the G90 have no problems with that on a standard [email protected] source.



Sounds reasonable Ask4Me2.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> I'm not an expert at all MP just using logic and sense
> 
> 
> And if someone using Photoshop or other photo program on their photos, when in a screenshot war like this thread or others "you should get disqualified". No one will have any respect for you, so that's a bad idea. And what's the point of showing off something that is manipulated or full of processing?
> *And I know that you don't or wont ever do any of this MP*.



If things were being done fairly, there would be a requirement that the same camera would be used, as well, screen and input source. Years ago during the commercial trade shows, they would have an entire room where various manufacturers were all feeding from the same source (but did have a second source). That same source used because that huge room was setup for what was a common thing back there (SCREENT SHOOTOUT). I used to have some of the CD/DVD's from these events. And of course there were common rules to follow. On this thread, you could have any variety of different things going on, to include, there is no way to have a common

source. So of course that would mean that it could never be a real or valid SHOOTOUT. And that's is why we just posted the shots and they just became something some looked forward to looking at. It was most Cliff (the started of the thread) and I, and we never made a big deal of of things nor was there one trying to prove they had a better setup. And we likewise complimented each other at times. Nothing like what has been going on these days. But still, for anyone with a true scientific mind, they would agree, the shots could never hold any real technical significance. Something as simple as a scaler or processor would serious change the technical outcome of things. When a real comparison would not have anything different from what the comparing display would also have in the chain. 



For instance, setup 1 is using a cheap Blu Ray player and Lumagen processor, while setup2 would have a straight from Blu ray to projector Moome input. Now how could this possible make for a true and proper scientific comparison...some things is just common sense.


On the other hand, setup1 uses a really nice SLR digital camera, while setup2 uses a cheap point and shoot...the real problem here is a better camera would do much better than a cheap single chip point/shot. For some reason, the people with the setup setup seem to always want to either prove their setup is better, or the want to let the other side know how much worse their setup is. So any comparison here would be a waste of time, and in no way could there be any real and quantitative end results. 



And Mr Dee, you are right that I would not get into manipulating and altering the integrity of the posted images. RAW is the name of the game, period!


I will at this point get back to keeping the colors on point, but will take sometime from now. And let me say something about my personal set of boards that can be seen in the shots, not sure why I'm always being asked about their light output. There is no light output with these boards. In fact they can maintain exceptional tight line and do so at twice the light out put of the stock boards. I'm not saying this because I am promoting them, no I'm mentioning it in hopes of trying to get others to understand, much like I ws the first to push the bandwidth beyond 1080P requirement, I was also able to FIX the weak light output problem. And in no way would I get back into doing mods. This days are behind me no question.. Really good seeing PJ posting now and then. And Mr Dee, it's even good seeing your presence here..


----------



## nidi

1080P 72 Hz , 110" neutral gain screen , 11,5 fl , almost 200 MHz bandwidth , NO enhancements , NO Darbee! , ultra pure videochain


----------



## Dj Dee

nidi said:


> 1080P 72 Hz , 110" neutral gain screen , 11,5 fl , almost 200 MHz bandwidth , NO enhancements , NO Darbee! , ultra pure videochain


Ultrapure "wow" Marquee 95** fantastic


----------



## Dj Dee

CRT Projectors >  Screenshot War!!!!!!!! is the name of this thread.


And people will try to get the best picture out to show, and try to point out faults in others photos . 
This will never be fair comparison like you say different camera and screen. And everybody to use the same camera and screen ,with same experience and without any mambo jumbo is impossible. It will not in any way show the true look of your CRT.


Like i have said if a picture is to good to be true its made, and not a real photo of the screen. Everybody knows this with old CRT experience. I think we all have tried all the tricks in the book a long time ago with CRT. And not hard to spot fakers.
Also easy to see if pictures are sent from other well known users to show off mod. So people shall think twice before doing so. 

CRT has its own signature that even ultra high bandwidth will show that CRT its a CRT or made photo after taken of screen. The lenses will be the drawback at the end result.
So if a CRT picture is identical to a screen cap, its tampered with in some way.
And most important if picture is to good to be true its tampered with for shore . What's the point of that is unknown, and then some agenda behind it. 

And again 9" CRTs correct adjusted will be almost identical to a super modded one. You see that with your eyes for shore in real.
With the correct mod you get a more noise free, clean picture that look CRT amazing. And mods can do negative things for the stability of the CRT. You will understand that MP.



I use my time watching more movies like the projectors are for. And still like the look of a great adjusted CRT in 2018


----------



## mp20748

Ok Mr Dee, I'll find time today to calibrate this setup, and will then show what a TRUE 200MHZ video chain should look like, because I'll be posting multiple images, as how the original SCREENSHOTS were done to show overall how the projector performs, and do so showing various scenes. 



What I want you to remember about the shots I'll most likely post this evening, is how well they'll reproduce the LOW END and Pure Black. Keep that in mind..


----------



## ask4me2

Here is the G90s respons to the Gladiator picture....


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Here is the G90s respons to the Gladiator picture....


 

Great shot this one too. Thanx 


Here side by side with nidis shot. I will say the marquee some sharper, and the G90 has more contrast and higher measured ansi contrast if the pictures were live on screen like this. 


Ask4Me2 you have to work on asmatic and digital focus in your G90, I know you have more sharpness available just with this. 
Remember that PJ said that we could bring out more.


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> 1080P 72 Hz , 110" neutral gain screen , 11,5 fl , almost 200 MHz bandwidth , NO enhancements , NO Darbee! , ultra pure videochain


Which CRT projector brand are you using nidi? Your picture looks very good and sharp and more thrue to the BD sorce than my G90 + Canon EOS 5D Mk2 kamera.

The picture does not have the typical ringing on the left side ("marquee signature"), so it can't be a Marquee without using a scaler with custom porch settings to move the ringing outside the picture.


----------



## nidi

VDC Marquee 9017 LC Ultra , handpicked VNB's , latest mods by Gjaky
Lumagen Radiance XS+ , Oppo UDP-205


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> VDC Marquee 9017 LC Ultra , handpicked VNB's , latest mods by Gjaky
> Lumagen Radiance XS+ , Oppo UDP-205


A very nice setup you got there nidi.

The Lumagen adds CMS (Color Management System) and custom porch settings to get rid of the ringing to the CRT setup too.
That together with the mods look like a optimal way to get the best picture quality out of a CRT.


----------



## Dj Dee

Definitely a great setup. Nidi. Also see that form you're picture.


----------



## nidi

I posted 3 pics , what can be said another the other picture I posted?


----------



## Dj Dee

nidi said:


> I posted 3 pics , what can be said another the other picture I posted?


Post them again, use https://postimages.org/


If you have the screen cap post that too.


----------



## Dj Dee

I think this is one of them.


Also here close to Screen Cap. Great picture. And also a great photo. But say this when controlling the picture. 



The other picture says this


----------



## Dj Dee

Full picture nr. 3 Screencap. You see black bars.


Enjoy and good luck with screen shots to all


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> I think this is one of them.
> 
> 
> Also here close to Screen Cap. Great picture. And also a great photo. But say this when controlling the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> The other picture says this





Thank you for this Mr Dee. Proof for sure that Nidi's image is tampered...and don't forget I had pointed this out previously. And proof that my shot is CLEAN..


I had planned to get back after calibrating, but that won't happen soon. Maybe next week.


Anyway, my shot does look good considering it's not a calibrated setup. And it also confirms what I've been saying that It's like looking at a large CRT monitor (very intense image). And just think, I keep getting asked what light output your projector, and my response: "I have no idea" - but for sure it can produce a VERY bright and intense image, and it also proves clearly and as I've been saying, "it produces a very clean image" -- this all confirms what I have been saying all along...


----------



## Dj Dee

Your picture MP look very dynamic, if you see It like you posted it. colors like you say are off, but you say that you have not calibrated.
Also with distance look sharper compared. Zoomed in you see faults. This also because of quit small picture size .


And Its nothing wrong in liking a processed picture, and easy to see when you compare with a unprocessed picture. 


Me personally like clean unprocessed picture. I know that the G90 shown here give a brilliant CRT picture on screen. Also know that with processing the image will look sharper and more feel of resolution. 


Here added processing to the G90 on the left side and nidi`s posted picture of the Marquee on the right. What do you see?


----------



## nidi

what do you mean by processing ?

what program do you use for processing an image?


----------



## nidi

left : more standard marquee 

right: super hi res unenhanced picture (Compliment to Mike)


----------



## mp20748

Wow Nidi, that blow-up confirms exactly what Mr Dee showed above..


----------



## Dj Dee

nidi said:


> what do you mean by processing ?
> 
> what program do you use for processing an image?


program? 
Sharpness added, improvement filters bla bla bla. In a BD player, Darbee or Lumagen or projector all this have processing, and the possibility to improve the picture quality, you know that right?
Or the use of photo related programs for improving the image after photo taken.


Don't say that its wrong at all. We like what we like. And your picture look good watching, so don't get me wrong.


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> left : more standard marquee
> 
> right: super hi res unenhanced picture (Compliment to Mike)


The picture on the right shows large white tufts of hair glued together and black crush, where the left one shows and resolves the hair much better. I do not believe it could look like that in real life on the screen from the projector..

Without knowing what the camera used and the photo-technics used etc, and the effect of this is in these pictures, it will not show the projector capabilities at all. It's like comparing apples with oranges, and shows very little of what the picture on the screen really looks like from the CRT projector in the home cinema.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> The picture on the right shows large white tufts of hair glued together where the left one shows and resolves the hair much better. I do not believe it could look like that in real life on the screen from the projector..
> 
> Without knowing what the camera used and the photo-technics used etc, and the effect of this is in these pictures, it will not show the projector capabilities at all. It's like comparing apples with oranges, and shows very little of what the picture on the screen really looks like from the CRT projector in the home cinema.


That's also why screenshots are more or less worthless. So the war with screenshots must be who gets the best picture not have the best CRT projector. This because of many factors. You can easy get a poor projector look better than a super hi end one with camera knowledge, and the right settings. I have seen this with side by side test in real, and the photo looked better on the poor one,  .
So like you say Ask4Me2 is 110% correct. "shows very little of what the picture on the screen really looks like from the CRT projector in the home cinema"
So just bull to argue about the projector, when what you're really talking about is the picture.


MPs picture does not look like this on screen.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Thank you for this Mr Dee. Proof for sure that Nidi's image is tampered...and don't forget I had pointed this out previously. And proof that my shot is CLEAN..


No it does not proof the pictures from Nidi is tampered with at all.....

Ok mp, lets put this in another perspective.

Have you ever read/seen a Nikon vs Canon camera shootout test MP? 

like the dynamic test in this video for example...

https://youtu.be/EsZtUZvoeO0?t=852

In the good old days we could load different camera brands with the same type 35mm films, and we get more apples to apples comparisons when used the same exposure settings and optics etc. and the film was develop and treated in the same way. Today, the Digital camera is also representing the "film signature" and that makes a a lot of difference.

There is no doubt that there are differences between camera brands, especially when it comes to dynamic and hard to capture motives.like CRT screen shots represents.

Telling other that the pictures they post here is tampered with because they come closer to the BD source is not a good way to compete...
It is by the way a good idea to make it possible to read out the exif information form pictures in thread like this, but they to can be tampered with too, so we need to be able to trust each other and use common CRT and photographic knowledge about what we are able to read out of these shots, and what we do not are able to see from them.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> *That's also why screenshots are more or less worthless*. So the war with screenshots must be who gets the best picture not have the best CRT projector. This because of many factors. *You can easy get a poor projector look better than a super hi end one with camera knowledge, and the right settings. I have seen this with side by side test in real, and the photo looked better on the poor one*,  .
> So like you say Ask4Me2 is 110% correct.* "shows very little of what the picture on the screen really looks like from the CRT projector in the home cinema"*
> *So just bull to argue about the projector, when what you're really talking about is the picture.*
> 
> 
> MPs picture does not look like this on screen.



Exactly, and so much so explains why I havn't wasted a lot of time fiddling and manipulating the image to make my shots look better. It's TOTALLY senseless to think you can do a fair comparison considering the many difference there are to presenting the image to the forum. And it really blows my mind every time someone cut, paste and zoom two separate images for comparison. Would be similar to trying to evaluate someones sound system, by asking them to hold their cell phone to the speaker while you listen on your phone in another country..





> MPs picture does not look like this on screen



Yes and the dynamics themselves speak very loudly about that, for it is a true 200mhz video chain that does not need any sharpening or enhancing. It's just pure and clean high performance. And it's also something I'm not willing to ever pull out a soldering iron to make happen again..

Years back, this thread used to be fun. That of course was when you just posted the shots and we all give each other compliments on each others shots. No criticism or pointing out shortcomings, it was just a hobby within itself, one that did not stir the pot or make anyone feel they had an inferior setup.


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> No it does not proof the pictures from Nidi is tampered with at all.....
> 
> Ok mp, lets put this in another perspective.
> 
> Have you ever read/seen a Nikon vs Canon camera shootout test MP?



No, but it could make sense, because I'm sure neither would involve a Shootout that did not have all things involved being equal and at the same place. 



I don't care if the shots have been tampered, only that they are constantly being pushed as not being tampered, when it's really obvious. And then you have to look at trying to convince me that the stock marquee neck boards are nearly capable of resolving 200mhz. Myself being someone that has been dealing with engineers from both Electrohome and VDC over the years, and hearing directly from them the limitation of those neck boards. Add also the many years I've been modifying them, wouldn't I be the wrong person to try and convince otherwise. And no, you cannot change one resistor on each neck board and make it 200mhz capable.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> ..Would be similar to trying to evaluate someones sound system, by asking them to hold their cell phone to the speaker while you listen on your phone in another country..


Think that was a rely good analogy to what we are doing here, and youtube is full of videos showing how different Audio systems "plays" the music, and i find that rely funny indeed ... 




mp20748 said:


> Yes and the dynamics themselves speak very loudly about that, for it is a true 200mhz video chain that does not need any sharpening or enhancing. It's just pure and clean high performance. And it's also something I'm not willing to ever pull out a soldering iron to make happen again..
> 
> Years back, this thread used to be fun. That of course was when you just posted the shots and we all give each other compliments on each others shots. No criticism or pointing out shortcomings, it was just a hobby within itself, one that did not stir the pot or make anyone feel they had an inferior setup.


i think a lot of the damage happen when threads like this was used to promote different mods for CRT projectors, and there was some money and different interests involved.....


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Think that was a rely good analogy to what we are doing here, and youtube is full of videos showing how different Audio systems "plays" the music, and i find that rely funny indeed ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think a lot of the damage happen when threads like this was used to promote different mods for CRT projectors, and there was some money and different interests involved.....


It’s a reason for that people are removed not only here but on almost every forum.
So you are right about this promoting mods.

And I know that you Ask4Me2 know why it’s so easy to see if a posted picture is genuine or fake. This because you have one of the best CRTs and also old and new digital.


----------



## mp20748

Well guys, I'll be giving it a rest for awhile, and go on hiatus. May poke in every now and then and post a shot or so, but for now, I'll let you all finish doing your thing here.


----------



## Dj Dee

I just watch, just fun With CRT


----------



## elio

Fun is all you can ask for as it's only video.


----------



## ask4me2

elio said:


> Fun is all you can ask for as it's only video.


With CRT it could be lots of fun with setup, modding and tweaking inside the projector to build your own movie picture quality too.


----------



## mp20748

Just thought I would take a few quick shots to post for now, then pick things back up later. Someone asked me a question concerning my Mods. I'll answer that here as well; I gave up doing mods months ago and that was the end of MP doing mods period. It's now all behind me and that has been the case so far this year at least. But posting shots I'm sure I'll continue to do, especially after I get things dialed in better. The Mods business from me is over, it literally died, and I'm not in the resurrection business. Not sure why this keep coming up about me still doing mods, when CRT itself is dead.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

upload images free


----------



## mp20748

Low Rez shots...


----------



## elio

Nice shots now if you only would do Barco 909 mods


----------



## mp20748

elio said:


> Nice shots now if you only would do Barco 909 mods



At one point years ago we were doing mods for the 909, but was too time consuming.


----------



## mp20748

More Low Rez Shots...


----------



## elio

Those shots are amazing for by your words low rez.


----------



## elio

ask4me2 said:


> elio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun is all you can ask for as it's only video.
> 
> 
> 
> With CRT it could be lots of fun with setup, modding and tweaking inside the projector to build your own movie picture quality too./forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

There is only so much one can do with 909 as it’s pretty good stock.


----------



## Mr Bob

*2 CRT pj's still available*

I am looking to place the 2 big projectors I have wanted to set up and use for years - and know I never will, life keeps nipping at my heels constantly - and I think this thread would be my best bet.

One is a Barco Data 800, the other is a Sony G70. Both have those super-res 8" guns, and both were working perfectly last time I had them up and running, years ago. They have been very carefully kept, and the Barco has the winch it originally came with, for hoisting it up there. 

Both have produced exactly the same kind of superlative picture this thread is famous for. I especially liked seeing the James Bond movies on the Barco, back when Voom was the only game in town for having access to lots of HD content. Even just shot on my sunroom wall, no actual screen, it was absolutely breathtaking.

I am available for supertweaking either one, anywhere you are. Please contact me. 

Mr Bob


----------



## mp20748

Hey Mr Bob, good seeing you're still around. I could have sent some folk your way had I remember you still in the business and quite qualified for the work.


I'll be getting back to this thread from time to time, but for now I'll just post one of the two additions I'll be adding to my setup. Pictured is a small dual (+/-) regulated power supply. It will be replacing the dual 85 (+/-) rails that supply the neck boards. I had been saying I would be getting around to this as one of my two last projects. 



Now why I've decided to replaced the supply to the neck boards is two fold. One being the very noisy +/-85 rails that are coming out of the Low Voltage power supply, to include that one of those same rails also supply the main voltage for the Horizontal Deflection Module,and while also doing that, that same HDM adds additional noise into the neck boards. The second reason I'm replacing out the rail supply to the neck boards is to put +/- 100vdc on the neck boards instead. This should be a more correct supply amount for a more linear and dynamic light output. The Sony G90 has it correct with the 909 somewhere in between. it uses 180vdc because of its single G1 drive design, half of that would be 90vdc. 



Anyway, there will be another two weeks before this is implemented, and the regulator would be a 60hz transformer supply, that would get the video signal away from the higher frequencies that are the result of both the low voltage power supply and that scan rate frequency they HDM dumps back on one of the two rails. Decoupling didn't help much there.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Finally found the perfect power transformer for my regulated +/- 100vdc neck board power supply. This of course is to replace the two 85 volt rails that supply the neck boards. The regulators themselves on the power supply board are discrete MOSFET power transistors, and there is why that single small board would hav the current to operate all three neck boards.


This upgrade will have three benefits over using the stock rails. 1, it will supply the neck boards from two very clean and isolated supply rails, 2, it should improve on the left edge ringing, because the ringing get's into the video from the stock supply to the neck boards poor decoupling from the horizontal deflection also sharing one of the two rails. 3, The additional 15 vdc it offers (85 vdc present stock) that makes up the new 100vdc would be a more correct voltage for both CRT operation and to maintain spot control for higher light output. But overall, the upgrade offers cleaner passive (60hz) rails and higher voltage supply to the neck boards for a better high resolution image, to include a much brighter and dynamic image.



This is pure hobby for me these days and may take a few weeks to getting around to complete.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


>


Are these picture made with the new 100vdc powersuply installed?

Made some screenshots from the Avengers Infinity war from my G90 some days ago.


----------



## plain fan

Wow guys. It's been several years since I had my Barco 800G running and you are still keeping the flame alive for the technology! What resolutions are you running? Gorgeous screenshots.


----------



## ask4me2

plain fan said:


> Wow guys. It's been several years since I had my Barco 800G running and you are still keeping the flame alive for the technology! What resolutions are you running? Gorgeous screenshots.


Hi plain fan, the G90 is running at [email protected] using a Moome HDMI input card and a Pioneer BDP-150 BD player. 
Since 2007 when i got my first JVC (HD1) after many years with CRT, l have exclusively run digital lamp valve projectors (at the moment X7500/RS520) , but having saved a couple of 8" Barco Graphics 808S and Marquee, i decided a couple of years ago, to make an additional small CRT home theater for nostalgic purposes. Found out i still love many aspect with CRT, and then I found out someone here in Norway was selling a real nice Sony G90.... (The G90 was a projector i had dreamed of trying out for years) the decision was easy, and that CRT had been a real nice experience to setup and use so far. 

Have used a Barco 800 back in the CRT golden age, and think it was able to created a very nice picture using [email protected] from up scaling DVD

Don't know how many times i have seen top gun on the 800, and that was a real real nice experience too.


----------



## kal

The Barco 800 was a workhorse! It was my first CRT projector and loved the image quality. Put thousands of hours on that thing and I think it looked every bit as good the day I got rid of it as it did when I first got it... Actually, it looked better at the end as I had completely re-capped it. 

I'd love to throw a Barco Cine 9/909 into the mix some day to try it out. Life's been too easy with my JVC RS56 (digital): Just changed to my 3rd bulb (so nearly 6000 hours so far) and it only takes 2 minutes to do...

Kal


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Checking out the GREEN glycol going bad one more time around. CONTRAST set at 60 and the blooming still exist. Not something I'll be addressing anytime soon or in the near future. 













screenshot app


----------



## mp20748




----------



## everytownhasanelmstreet

Barco Cine9 with new tubes and colored C-elements


----------



## mp20748

A few more, but this time I've started working on the color balance.

Reasonable Contrast level and intense image still. And the more intensified the image the more the Green LCP starts to fall apart and it's obvious, while the LUG remains its tight resolution power.


----------



## mp20748

Working on the focus for a better outcome, while trying to understand how humans can be so heartless towards each other.


----------



## nidi

Mike, I can see you've been trying to make your Marquee focus since 2007, ever considered to get some help.?


----------



## mp20748

nidi said:


> Mike, I can see you've been trying to make your Marquee focus since 2007, ever considered to get some help.?



Like what, going with Darby..


----------



## Dj Dee

One thing for shore MP, you have *completely* unprocessed CRT picture and that shows. No darbee or lumagen "sharpness, detail enhancement, or other picture improvements added."


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> One thing for shore MP, you have *completely* unprocessed CRT picture and that shows. No darbee or lumagen "sharpness, detail enhancement, or other picture improvements added."



True. I use direct Blu Ray player to Moome (projector) as source to projector and nothing else. Some enhancement method can be used to TIGHTEN the edges, or remove blur and ringing to some degrees. These are the things I had said the Darbee did well when I was sent one for evaluation, so there can be some good in a tool of such, but one would need to know how to use it and do so with terribly degrading the original source. The goal would be to use it without it showing its effects in one pixel vertical lines group (the top Nyquist of the SMPTE). That's also pretty much what the very expensive processor some years was famous for, or was supposed to have accomplished. The one that was being sold with the Chris Steven's Mods...you could not purchase his modified projector without the Processor. That was something like maybe 70 grand by itself.


We had discussed the works of that great processor one time when I was in Arizona at Tim's. At that time Robert Zuck (if I remember the name correctly) of Reference Imagine had also joined us. At that time we were providing Marquee mods. When we talked about that famous processor, he elaborated on how you could get benefits of of it, and do so without altering the image. I used that same discussion to evaluate the Darbee, because I was able to do so using both scope and test pattern. 



These days I'm totally out of the Mod business, but am still playing with my work. I have three sets of boards, or three board sets, with really two different sets of neck boards. That are a Original Marquee design and the other is a VDC neck board design. I have three different bandwidth between all of them. My later shots in this thread is using my favorite set, though not the most powerful, I like it because it's not to overly intense, in comparison to the higher of more powerful set, though it uses the same neck boards and Moome. So I would only have to switch the VIM. And when I get time I'll mention some of this when I get back to posting more shots, and shots if I'll use the better set, or maybe not better but more powerful. The problem here is being able to maintain a very low noise floor while at the same time contend with reasonable bandwidth. It's very difficult to have high bandwidth performance in analog video and yet have a low noise floor a the same time. So my second set has been by favorite, yet my more powerful set can easily do a flat 200mhz bandwidth @ 1080P 60hz, and I'm sure it'll also handle 1080P 72 just as easy. So an abundant increase in bandwidth can give you more detail, definition and punch, it will also bring along some of the nasties as well. 



I had to design and build my own VCA, but was able to luch up on a previous design that someone was not able to make work well and do so without adding distortion. I simply fixed their design and since I made it work properly, I'm also able to claim it..


I was thinking to have everything setup properly before posting a picture showing what a flat 200mhz video chain can produce, but dealing with nt being able to work like I used to, being able to swap out the LCP for a LUG is not likely to happen real soon. What I can say is; LUG tubes are a must for both high light output and for real or true bandwidth reproduction. The Green LCP tube literally blooms (falls apart) when driving really hard, while both Red and Blue LUG remains tight. And when I say driving hard, I really mean the screen is loaded with info (not necessarily light only) it looks like a large 20" CRT monitor in shear punch and dynamics.


Yes, I am out of the mod business and have been for quite some time now. In what I can do technically there is plenty of work out there, and if not for my limitations to handle it, I would be very busy. But life is what it is, so in due time, one day I might regain that ability.


----------



## Dj Dee

Some use your pictures Mike, and drag you hard down verbally, so here a picture form that guy. Will someone call this not processed or tampered with?


Here a slideshow first.



Then the Marquee and then the screencap.




Rest my case.



Here the original screen cap from the film.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Some use your pictures Mike, and drag you hard down verbally



Yeah, and that's been going on for nearly 3 years, and at times it's a daily thing...and it's nothing compared to some of the things they have escalated to..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Straight from Blu Ray player, from a Pure and 190mhz (not -3db) High Speed Video Chain - NO Sharpening. I cut back on the green a little to keep its blooming down. 







file image hosting


----------



## mp20748

More RAW 1080P Shots


----------



## Dj Dee

Great pictures MP. By far the best.
Look natural, pure and clean. Good job.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Great pictures MP. By far the best.
> Look natural, pure and clean. Good job.



That means a lot to me coming from you - thanks..


I wish I could have done this about 20 years ago, and also be able to easily make it happen over and over. But these days even the thought of doing another set of boards is scary. And even thinking about doing a set of these is even worse. The neck boards were a wrap sometime ago, with the changes to the VIM being rather new. So new that I still have to figure of the voltage range for the VCA. To include, there's not just a mini board attached to the VIM, there are an additional three (3) little mini boards also attached. One for each channel. Which means, there would be even more chances of loose solder connections and such, something I'll rather leave in the past and move on. 



I've accomplished everything I set out to do, with the exception of solving the ringing problem. Looking into that seems more like a dream than a reality. Not that I'll not be able to make it happen. It's because it seems senseless to pursue these days. Plus I'm done and looking for that day they tell me to remove it from the ceiling.


----------



## Dj Dee

For shore MP, pictures look great to be a CRT. And clean. I liked them much better than previous posted pictures.
So its all about camera skills and adjustments.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> For shore MP, pictures look great to be a CRT. And clean. I liked them much better than previous posted pictures.
> So its all about camera skills and adjustments.



The changes from previous pictures is the Video Input Module (VIM). The neck board and Moome card are the same, and I'm using a cheapy Fuji camera I use mostly for these shots.


The actual changes has more to do with my now using a higher bandwidth VIM. The neck boards are measured to 300mhz, the change of the later VIM improvements allow an 280mhz video chain - 190mhz flat. My latest Switch chip is now the limiting factor here, but not that important for 1080P. The Moome card I can't really measure, but it too is Special and its uniqueness shows in how clean the images are. If the Moome had any noise problems, it would be magnified in the video chain. Low noise and speed is critical to high performance video. When things are done right on CRT, the image should become very immersive and transparent. I think they call this 2 dimensional, which is an attribute of a truly High Resolution Image. 



The GT-17 lenses are somewhat failing in handling the higher bandwidth, and a set of HD10E's would be perfect here. And while I'm discussing lenses here, let me add something about being able to properly test them and do so using a science, instead of an opinion. In other words, in order to properly test a set of lenses, you would need to be able to reference a test method that would be relevant. And since lenses are rated based on Line/pairs, in our case, you would need to have capability to do at least 250mhz bandwidth. Because lenses cannot be properly tested using 1080P or any of the other standard resolutions. And you'll need a proper test pattern that will have at least the top nyquist of the SMPTE vert/horiz line pattern, and the ability to dial the resolution upwards. There you will began to notice the difference between what is on the screen in those lines patterns, to what you see looking into the tubes themselves. When the lens fails is when either or both of the two top lines group distorts on the screen but look perfect looking into the tube itself. Any other method of testing that does not honor the Lines and Resolution rule is pure nonsense and/or pure opinion. My GT-17's are good up to about 230mhz, but not good enough for my flatness goal, which should have them do well up to 280mhz. Where the HD10E's I know would do much better.

It should take me another week or two to get things where I really want them. And when that happens, I'll be raising the bar on HD and CRT performance.


----------



## mp20748

dang, my special Moome has a blue problem, but that should be taking care of sometime today. And I noticed I also forgot to converge the image before taking the shots again. Or maybe I should do that after fixing the Moome.


----------



## mp20748

Really wanted to do a color balance, but that green LCP remains a problem....same cheapo camera


----------



## kal

mp20748 said:


> More RAW 1080P Shots


I know I've said this before MP, but there's no such thing as 'RAW' shots. Your camera (and all digital cameras) do a massive amount of image processing in order to create the JPGs you get out of them. This includes all sorts of colour adjustments and even sharpening. Yes, sharpening. Your camera does a specific amount of sharpening to the image to make it try and appear more like what you see in real life. You can't turn this off. You wouldn't want to turn this off.

By all means enjoy post screenshots, just be aware at the amount of processing that is really going on. There's no such thing as 'RAW' when it comes to JPGs. 

Kal


----------



## Dj Dee

You 100% are right here Kal.


But what I think MP mean, is that the photos are not tampered with afterwards the photo are taken. Just converted to JPG.
Then also with no extra sharpening in a photo editor program, and also that he have a pure video chain, without enhancement like darbee and so on.


But 100% true There's no such thing as 'RAW' when it comes to JPG files.


----------



## mp20748

kal said:


> I know I've said this before MP, but there's no such thing as 'RAW' shots. Your camera (and all digital cameras) do a massive amount of image processing in order to create the JPGs you get out of them. This includes all sorts of colour adjustments and even sharpening. Yes, sharpening. Your camera does a specific amount of sharpening to the image to make it try and appear more like what you see in real life. You can't turn this off. You wouldn't want to turn this off.
> 
> By all means enjoy post screenshots, just be aware at the amount of processing that is really going on. There's no such thing as 'RAW' when it comes to JPGs.
> 
> Kal



and I agree, but my reference was more about (from) the source (Blu Ray) to analog RGB into the video chain itself, to not even using a processor. This is where the shots or image can be greatly enhanced (Darbee, etc), sharpened and altered to correct on deficiencies. And of course the camera, image hosting (resizing, etc) will add and alter to various degrees, and that would include any and all of these things being used period regardless of cost. Which makes screenshots near useless for anything scientific or as a means to state how good a setup really looks.


I learn a lot from the shots, because I was told years ago concerning 1080P, that none of the CRT projector manufacturers had made a 1080P video chain, because the industry started pointing their engineers towards digital technology, and that higher bandwidth requirements in analog required a lot of R&D ($$$). So CRT really died a long time ago, and according to them, most or all of the manufactured CRT projectors would really only be 1280X1024 capable if tested. So here the little secret that I can now tell. CRT died when it was not able to properly resolve the highest HD standard (1080P) at the time. It may sound crazy now as it did when I learned this from both Scott at VDC and Cliff Gates (Tim knows and formally an engineer from Electrohome) who are both engineers, with Cliff Gates I've worked for 15 years doing consulting work, that these same projectors were never really able to handle the higher commercial scan rates. Where, 1280X1024 was very common and the highest rate used for everything to include Immersive and Stereoscopic Graphic Rendering, where you would also find 3D glasses. In these particular display systems, the refresh rate (vertical) would be something in the 90's to upwards of 104hz. This of course pushed the projectors outside of it's bandwidth rating. This was a problem, because the images were soft, and wearing the glasses made things worse. And only Electrohome had plans to increase their bandwidth to fix this problem (03 VIM as a start), but that was snatched off the table when they diverted their engineers to the newer digital technology. So CRT died way before digital, because they were not able to get the video chain higher in bandwidth, yet what they claimed was the intent, but never happened.


----------



## kal

mp20748 said:


> and I agree, but my reference was more about (from) the source (Blu Ray) to analog RGB into the video chain itself, to not even using a processor.


Ah! Gotcha. Sorry for the confusion.



mp20748 said:


> I was told years ago concerning 1080P, that none of the CRT projector manufacturers had made a 1080P video chain, because the industry started pointing their engineers towards digital technology, and that higher bandwidth requirements in analog required a lot of R&D ($$$). So CRT really died a long time ago, and according to them, most or all of the manufactured CRT projectors would really only be 1280X1024 capable if tested. So here the little secret that I can now tell. CRT died when it was not able to properly resolve the highest HD standard (1080P) at the time.


CRT was on a downwards death spiral long before 1080p was commonplace. It started to die as soon as digital projectors that most people were happy with were introduced at 1/10th of cost of a new CRT projector. Most of those digitals at the time were only 720p. The plug and play nature of digital also helped. It was cost and ease of use that killed CRT, not resolving power. If someone was to come out with an upgraded CRT projector today that did 1920x1080 (1080p) very cleanly there wouldn't be enough market to support it. I think it would even be a hard market even if that CRT projector cost only $3-5K. The actual cost it would have to sell for would be x10 that ($30-50K+) however or possibly more given the limited market, so there's absolutely no way enough of those would sell to justify making them.

Kal


----------



## mp20748

kal said:


> CRT was on a downwards death spiral long before 1080p was commonplace. It started to die as soon as digital projectors that most people were happy with were introduced at 1/10th of cost of a new CRT projector. Most of those digitals at the time were only 720p. The plug and play nature of digital also helped.* It was cost and ease of use that killed CRT, not resolving power*. If someone was to come out with an upgraded CRT projector today that did 1920x1080 (1080p) very cleanly there wouldn't be enough market to support it. I think it would even be a hard market even if that CRT projector cost only $3-5K. The actual cost it would have to sell for would be x10 that ($30-50K+) however or possibly more given the limited market, so there's absolutely no way enough of those would sell to justify making them.
> 
> Kal



Yeah, but for commercial setups where there was a ton of CRT's still in use, for Simulators, Virtual Reality, Stereoscope and the other high refresh rate applications, Digital was still lagging on both panel resolution and the ability to go beyond 60hz vertical for these special applications. so there was still a demand for a while longer.


I have a few more CRT customers, but I'm done and moving on.


----------



## plain fan

Hey Mike, not to change the subject too terribly much. I always love what you're able to do with these projectors and you're squeezing every last bit of performance out of them. I'm curious what you've moved on to now.


----------



## mp20748

plain fan said:


> Hey Mike, not to change the subject too terribly much. I always love what you're able to do with these projectors and you're squeezing every last bit of performance out of them. I'm curious what you've moved on to now.



I'll just say right now that I've moved on to other things, since long gotten out of offering and doing mods for others. I can't do a lot of soldering anymore, it's almost like I've aged 30 years in the past three years. So changing a part or two is more of where I am now with electronics, but still love fixing stuff and solving technical problems. The thought of modifying a single neck board scares me, and being able to do three neck boards and a VIM would be a nightmare and or a disastrous task for me these days. I get my wife to fill out any paper work I've had to fill out. I try to only sign and that's even different.


I may continue posting screenshots, and may do a tweek or two to my video chain, because I'm still fine tuning my video chain from the last changes. It's still far from where it needs to be.


----------



## mp20748

Now to the Better Canon camera and leaving the cheapo alone from now on... My near 300mhz very Fast and low noise video chain is being used in this Marquee chassis. There is NO Peaking, Sharpening, Darbee or any other processing being used here..


Oh and let me make sure it's clear that this is not something that I'm offering or can be purchased from me. My days of doing Mods are now academic..


----------



## Dj Dee

Look great MP, good detail and nice.
Anyway fun to have a hobby 
The good CRT days are over as you say.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Look great MP, good detail and nice.
> Anyway fun to have a hobby
> The good CRT days are over as you say.



Thank you man. You should see it on the screen..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Thank you man. You should see it on the screen..



I know its better on the screen, its always a drawback to try to show a projector on screen with a photo. Must be fun to still have time to this CRT hobby, I don't.. With the time and space I would play with my Cine9, But just takes way to much time, so stays in storage.
For me its waiting for the new JVC N7, Hope it will be great.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Must be fun to still have time to this CRT hobby, I don't..



I kinda still like posting shots from time to time, but really see this whole thing as a waste of time to be honest. 



I have a little more work to do on the VIM that I'm using now, and may post a few more shots at times for that reason.


----------



## plain fan

Thanks for the reply Mike, I know you made a lot of people very happy with your mods and advice to others. Are you still running a CRT for your primary viewing device or did you go digital?


----------



## mp20748




----------



## plain fan

Hey Mike something must be up with the forum. I was able to read your response in the email notification but it doesn't actually show up on the forum.

Good luck with all of your endeavors!


----------



## mp20748

plain fan said:


> Hey Mike something must be up with the forum. I was able to read your response in the email notification but it doesn't actually show up on the forum.
> 
> Good luck with all of your endeavors!



I deleted my comments because I was told to ignore you..


----------



## mp20748

The on-screen text in the movie really makes it known how bad the focus needs to be setup..



Check out the last shot and the purity of the black pants the female soldiers are wearing, even the camera was able to capture. Evidence that the video chain is very capable of completely maintaining it's zero (black) reference at a Flat 1080P bandwidth. Also proof of a very fast and clean video chain. No hash noise or floating pedestals..


My goal, these days is to not pick up a soldering iron in my work, and the work I've started doing so far does not require the use of soldering. 



Now they can continue to bash my work. But it's good to know I can still prove them wrong..


----------



## mp20748

RAW HD...


----------



## mp20748

Dang, nobody noticed how noisy these latest shots were. I had a different Moome in there the entire week.


----------



## mp20748

Alright, I now have the better Moome card back in and switched the blu ray player. Will later today dial things in better and see if I can decrease somehow the intensity of the image, because the green seems to not track well like the red and blue.


----------



## plain fan

Looking good Mike! But then your pictures always look good to me, even when you know where the flaws are located!

Another question for you, I seem to remember that CRTs could run very high resolutions which is why they were used for simulators. Can they not resolve a 4k image?


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Dang, nobody noticed how noisy these latest shots were. I had a different Moome in there the entire week.


It's hard to tell what noise the moome card adds to these pictures, when the weakest link may be the camera/photo it self and not been able to see the projected picture irl. The 5-10% of the picture ringing (barcode) on the left side on some of these pictures was quite heavy, but seems to be the same with different moome cards. Is the only way to get rid of this ringing on a Marquee to add a scaler with custom porch settings to move this out of the projected picture area?


----------



## ask4me2

plain fan said:


> Another question for you, I seem to remember that CRTs could run very high resolutions which is why they were used for simulators. Can they not resolve a 4k image?


The best 9" CRT projectors have a hard time resolving a 1920x1080 picture at 48Hz>72HZ due to the lens quality and the tube form factor was more 4:3 than 16:9 and bandwith limitations etc, so to resolve 3840x2160 with 4x the resolution for 4K, have nothing to do with CRT projectors what so ever...


----------



## mp20748

plain fan said:


> Looking good Mike! But then your pictures always look good to me, even when you know where the flaws are located!
> 
> Another question for you, I seem to remember that CRTs could run very high resolutions which is why they were used for simulators. * Can they not resolve a 4k image?*



Not at all. 4K is literally way outside of the analog range for CRT circuitry, and nor would the Tubes or lenses be capable of 4K resolution. 1080P at present presents a problem for the best CRT lenses (not 100% capable), though the LUG tubes are perfect for 1080P resolution. 



Actually, none of the manufactured and well known CRT brands were really 1600X1200 60hz capable (nearly the same as 1920X1080P in bandwidth). They were more around slightly above 100mhz at best. 








That of course is not the case with the set of boards I'm using here on this thread, because they are 100% capable of resolving 1920X1080P 60 or 72hz ..


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> It's hard to tell what noise the moome card adds to these pictures, when the weakest link may be the camera/photo it self and not been able to see the projected picture irl. The 5-10% of the picture ringing (barcode) on the left side on some of these pictures was quite heavy, but seems to be the same with different moome cards. Is the only way to get rid of this ringing on a Marquee to add a scaler with custom porch settings to move this out of the projected picture area?





I should have qualified the noise that I was walking about. It is also considered HASH Noise. It plays out a like a film or cloudiness in the image. And is a difficult beast to deal with.


Some of my previous shots have clear foreground to background clarity, and later on, the shots shows some film or an not so clear background. This is also one of the reasons why I post to the forums, because somehow looking at it on a monitor from a forum reveals some of these noises. Not sure why, and that same happens if you look at the shots using an Iphone or in some cases a cell phone. For instance, look at my last shots on a PC monitor and then do the same using a cell phone. You should see a BLUE haze or film on my last shots. That is a noise caused when my blue neck board is not firmly grounded. I actually have to install a separate ground wire fom the neck boards to the chassis ground to get rid of it. It is parasitic oscillation, which is a sophisticated term for high frequency "mosquito noise"


----------



## plain fan

Ah, ok. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I should have known that if CRT were capable of 4k people would have been doing it!


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Enough of the really bad gain and colors. That part is now fixed, only need to do a better eye ball and work with the camera to keep it from pushing green.


Now as I go forward. I'll add again that there is absolutely No processing, enhancing or anything involved in the source. and on the protector side of things, there is no peaking or other compensation circuits in this video chain.


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## Per Johnny

Looking really good Mike!


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## mp20748

Try the cheapo camera this time..


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## mp20748

using the cheapo camera this time and back to my other Blu Ray player..


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## mp20748

From the old Planet Earth Blu Ray


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## mp20748

Now back to my best Blu Ray player, but still using my cheapo camera... RAW Bandwidth, no sharpening, processing or enhancements


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## mp20748




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## joeycalda

Fantastic images!!


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## Dj Dee

I marked the images that I thought were really good with "like".
Good job. Clean and the natural CRT look.


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## thrang

Projector: Sony VPL-VW5000es
Processor: Lumagen Radiance Pro, performing intensity mapping and outputting SDR2020
Source: Zidoo X9S Media Player, 4k UHD content (Blade Runner 2049 and Atomic Blonde ISO)
Capture: iPhone XS Max w/ProCam app - manual settings, TIFF format.
Cropping only, no editing


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## mp20748

An older cheapo camera...


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Good job. Clean and the natural CRT look.



Well, it feels good seeing that someone notices those improvements. And as you have pointed out yourself, my work gets its share of bashing as well, but only from a few..


I also get remarks by PM, letting me know there are people that actually are looking forward to me posting more. I'm waiting on the day that I can replace the PJ for an Electrohome version Marquee that uses their Control board. It's then that I will tightly dial things in and hopefully by then I'll be done solved that dreaded ringing problem, because it really looks terrible on these particular boards I'm using now. 



The Clean part of things is the result of being told that I would have to develop my own means of addressing the Hash Noise problem, and I did....and even took things further.. 



I'll take a few more once the PJ warms up, but will use the better camera for these.


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## mp20748




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## thrang

A few more...

Projector: Sony VPL-VW5000es
Processor: Lumagen Radiance Pro, performing intensity mapping and outputting SDR2020
Source: Zidoo X9S Media Player, 4k UHD content (Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Coco and Pacific Rim)
Capture: Sony a6500, manual mode, Auto HDR.
Cropping, minor editing to better match actual visual (the iPhone XS and ProCam or Halide do a better job than the a6500 re: contrast and color, though a6500 better in terms of less noise in low light captures)



























































































The 5000 is a beast! I love this projector...!


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Clean and the natural CRT look.



Oh I forgot the topic was clean and natural...that was the wrong Blu Ray for those other shots, my bad..


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## mp20748

It's now official. The PJ is now in Full Beast Mode. The Moome is now perfectly matched to the VIM and has gotten its final upgrades. The screw that holds the card to the VIM is now tightened..


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## Per Johnny

Congrats, Mike, looking supergood.


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## mp20748

Now the better camera..


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## plain fan

Good stuff Mike!


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## Pokemon640

Great job Mike,
i'm looking forward to tweak my 1209s 
(Lug tubes, R+G color filters, Greg's DVI port3 card)
i have to troubleshoot an issue with Green tube focus, getting close


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## mp20748

Pokemon640 said:


> Great job Mike,
> i'm looking forward to tweak my 1209s
> (Lug tubes, R+G color filters, Greg's DVI port3 card)
> i have to troubleshoot an issue with Green tube focus, getting close



Check with Curt on helping with the green issue, he knows that set well.


And if you want to do a few things to improve the image, send me a diagram, and I can point out some changes you can make that will for sure make some improvements and at the cost of a few parts only.


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## mp20748




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## mp20748




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## WereWolf84

thrang said:


> A few more...
> 
> Projector: Sony VPL-VW5000es
> Processor: Lumagen Radiance Pro, performing intensity mapping and outputting SDR2020
> Source: Zidoo X9S Media Player, 4k UHD content (Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Coco and Pacific Rim)
> Capture: Sony a6500, manual mode, Auto HDR.
> Cropping, minor editing to better match actual visual (the iPhone XS and ProCam or Halide do a better job than the a6500 re: contrast and color, though a6500 better in terms of less noise in low light captures)
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> The 5000 is a beast! I love this projector...!


More screenshots eye candy please


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## thrang

WereWolf84 said:


> More screenshots eye candy please


Well, after I posted I realized this is a CRT screenshot thread, so I don’t think I should post anything further here from an SXRD device...


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## WereWolf84

thrang said:


> Well, after I posted I realized this is a CRT screenshot thread, so I don’t think I should post anything further here from an SXRD device...


you can continue posting on this correct thread for screenshots for digital projector 

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...msrp/935620-show-us-your-screenshots-100.html


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## Dude111

Thanx for your entries everyone!!!!!!!


Good seeing your views


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## mp20748

Just posting a few more, but really wish I had a better camera. These shots are not the best and are far from what's on the screen itself


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## mp20748

Now when I make a few component changes on the neck boards that outs them in a different drive mode, you my be able to notice in the posted 2 shots, that the intensity has also increased. This as well causes the neck boards to run a tad hotter but they remain very stable and produce a more solid image still. It just looses it's laid back affect and looks too hard to me. When I use the term "solid" here, it means the image also has less hash or snow and seems to be double in saturation and intensity.


Oh, and let me say that the blurring (seen in all my shots) is mostly the Green CRT (LCP) blooming where the Red and Blue LUG tubes retain their tightness. Add to that that the Green CRT only has a center focus and would really need to have both Stig and Zone focus done. Funny thing, with any of the projectors I've had on the ceiling, most were used for Mod testing and R&D work. Maybe 3 or 4 percent was for actually watching a movie. I can only remember watching no more than 10 movies total, and that's over a many year..


Next week I might throw in the other neck boards and see how they respond to this very different VIM and Moome after I also upgrade them with the recent changes. I have both modified Electrohome and the VDC version neck boards. One of these really has me wishing I had all matching tubes and the set dialed in, but I'm not even sure that will ever happen considering I'm not sure where my thinking will be this month on this.


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## mp20748

I think these would better show what I was talking about in the precious post...


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## mp20748

Now back to my other Blu Ray player..


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## mp20748

These latest shots I think are a tad too bright or more intense than what I was hoping for. What I really like about them is that they show well my solving that dreaded "over saturation" problem. I'll do more fro,m the same Blu Ray later, but will lower contrast (or gain) to get better detailed images. The projector is aggressively bright and not so easy to pick the right gain level.


There is absolutely NO processing, sharpening or any forms or enhancement involved in these shots. The only thing that;s not original from the RAW source from the Blu Ray, is the terrible inability of the Green LCP tube to track with the Red/Blue LUG tube, when the projector projects bright or intense scenes. The Green literally falls apart and either blooms or peaks in nearly every shot..


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## Brian Hampton

thrang said:


> A few more...
> 
> 
> The 5000 is a beast! I love this projector...!


60,000 MSRP ? ... It better be a beast.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw5000es

I do love my entry level 4K SXRD PJ ... wouldn't turn down a chance to see the 5000 in action.

don't imagine my Magnolia has one in the show room.


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## Dj Dee

Brian Hampton said:


> 60,000 MSRP ? ... It better be a beast.
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw5000es
> 
> I do love my entry level 4K SXRD PJ ... wouldn't turn down a chance to see the 5000 in action.
> 
> don't imagine my Magnolia has one in the show room.


 
The VW5000 is a beast for shore, saw the new Sony VPL VW760ES
Have to say that also that was great. For much less price.
Also the entry models are great.


Found a poor looking CRT picture, that look like less than poor VHS resolution?. Mike can you post the same?


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## mp20748

What movies is that....oh I see, Lucy. I don't have that one.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> What movies is that....oh I see, Lucy. I don't have that one.


 
Use this screencap, just like using a BD disk.


Press download original after pressing the link below.


https://i.postimg.cc/3RYbj7N5/Skjermbilde-2018-11-05-09-17-27.png


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## mp20748

In these shots I'm using a $34.00 (new) Panasonic Blu Ray player I got off Ebay some time ago. It has a separate 12 volt power supply that plugs into the back of it. I purchased it for the purpose of playing with better de-coupling/filtering the power rails. Kinda of like what I've done to my two Moome cards for lower noise performance. One of the things that was quickly noticed after making the changes were the smaller on-screen text. This is my first time using it on this particular version mods, and I must say it really steps the game up in better texture or finer detail performqance, so much so that even the higher gain (contrast) still yields higher content shots.


I'm running the projector in the Blast-Mode (higher Contrast) and the image is still in-tact. And you'll also notice the Green is not blooming as is always the case in my other shots, and for some reason it's handling the higher contrast setting.


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## mp20748

Here is a few more using that $34.00 Blu Ray player. The Green is still holding its place while still in Blast-mode. Strange I would say, though I understand fully how noise on the front end and cloud the entire video chain and can also cause some distortion like blooming. 



Now it may make a little more sense to finally tighten up on the setup. The Green CRT only has center focus/stig done, but all three needs to be better dialed in from where things are now. I need a better camera too, because there is still a huge difference from what is on the screen itself. You would think you're looking at a digital, until you realize that a digital can't look that Natural and Film like and have such phenomenal PUNCH..


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## mp20748

The last two shot groups that's using the same cheap Blu Ray player are both showing two different textures or image quality. The first of the two has more detail, while the last is slightly blurred. After looking at that better, the Red and Blue maintains its gain, while the green fell-off...actually the green blurs but not like it used to. But for sure the green gain groped to some degree and what the lost of detail in the last group, is not only from an increase in gain (contrast), but its confirmed that the green alone is bloomed-out.


The Little Blu Ray may not have the best colors, but it definitely produces good detail. A little later I'll swap out the separate switching power supply for the mini Blu ray for an active 12 volt supply. 



Anyway, with a video chain that has a bandwidth of nearly 300mhz and an amazing Flatness bandwidth that exceeds my 100mhz goal I've been hoping for the past decade, LOW noise is critical here, because noise can destroy the best of bandwidth. While at VDC some years back, but is otherwise also known; the FLAT bandwidth response of Electrohome STOCK neck boards is somewhere around 40mhz, but can have a -3db of over 100mhz and came be pushed (peaking / pre-neck board) higher. Really excited about finally being able to solve the over saturation problem, that would normally need a processor to correct..


And one thing I'd like to also point out is that its one thing to have better bandwidth in an analog signal chain, but it can really get better when you can combine both Speed and Low noise... this is when you see image transparency, depth and way better low end performance. Look at the three children image in the next to last batch of shots. Look at the children's hair and the detail in the black. It's three time that on screen and that's without the projector being calibrated..


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Use this screencap, just like using a BD disk.
> 
> 
> Press download original after pressing the link below.
> 
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/3RYbj7N5/Skjermbilde-2018-11-05-09-17-27.png



So that would mean to load it onto memory stick and then run it in the Blu ray player right?


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> So that would mean to load it onto memory stick and then run it in the Blu ray player right?


 Correct


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Correct



I'll get back to this later Mr D. I'd want a better setup and starting point for this, but I'm thinking I should first solve the problem on the Vim first.


I had mentioned before that I would also be throwing in my other set of neck boards at some point. I also have a set of VDC neck boards that I've fixed those terrible problems on them and have also modified them to be somewhere near what I have in my Electrohome version. The VDC neck boards were designed by Scott, VDC's senior engineer, who is also a former Ampro design engineer. Who is also one of the engineers that helped me better understand these video chains and why they were so limited in bandwidth performance. I've said it a many times, he did a fantastic redesign of the Electrohome neck boards, but as usual and because of the challenge to move away from CRT to the new lamp technology. He did not get a chance to do a good debugging of the boards, nor was there a staff to help with this task. And the set that was sent to me, I didn't get to really look at until some years later. I don't know how much time I put into them, but did get to solve all or any problems they were having. 



So earlier this morning as my insomnia ruled the night, I popped the VDC set of modified neck boards into the projector, and boy, they work better with the latest Vim mod changes than the Electrohome version. With the exception of the $34.00 Blu ray player, that Moome and VIM was smoking with this setup. I didn't even bother trying the better Players, spent the next few minutes picking my jaw off the floor and trying to catch a few shots from Kong. 



There are a lot of things that's really nice about the VDC boards, with the main one being the Sanyo Proprietary Video Transistors it uses, that really adds to the overall video performance. What I don't like about these boards is that the Sanyo transistors are super static sensitive, which makes then behave like CMOS devices when thy are exposed to static. I just need to fix that problem by finding the perfect protect diodes. Anyway, the VDC boards does not have the higher bandwidth capabilities as the Electrohome's, but do very well at and below 200mhz, which is really everything you'll ever need for 1080P. The brightness problem they had is totally gone on my boards to include the special Sanyo transistors make for a super sharp image. And let me add one more time, there is absolutely No, processing, sharpening or any image manipulation going on from source to CRT's in my setup. And there is also NO peaking or enhancing in my video chain, it's pure and raw..but does need to be better setup


The following shots are a quick install of only adjusting the G2's for a quick eyeball matching. And boom, a brighter and sharper image even without the projector being converged for the boards. 



Let me add this as well. I am 100% hobbyist these days and have no desire or intent to mod another PC board. I'm still getting asked about this and the answer is still I'm done. Along with my part of my hobby is posting shots. After three years of insults to my work over the years, it compelled me last month to utilize my insomnia hours to work on some changes I had planned for a better VIM, and it all worked out better than expected, though I need to fix the the VCA for a better and smoother control of things.


I have to really tighten some things up on the neck boards as well as the VIM. Now once I get that done, I'll bring everything together and will post shots, and will be using Avatar Blu Ray as one of the sources. And after that, I'm going to own this thread..


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## nidi

And now for something completely different......

As some of you might have heard, a CRT meeting has been held a couple of weeks ago in Europe.
some interesting new prototypes have been presented.

over the next few weeks, they have been tweaked and enhanced.

the pictures you are going to see are from Gabor's New Super Mods running 1080P 72 Hz , 195 MHz.

No ringing , No enhancement , pure 4:2:2 8 Bit and No Peaking!

12 fl on a 110" neutral gain screen

It's all about speed and noise.


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## mp20748

We had to put the baby Blu Ray back in its crib, and now back to Beast Mode..


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## mp20748

I forgot to add that a lot of my previous post the colorspace settings were off..


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## mp20748

Man, had to fix the colorspace issue, by going back to the manual, selecting (4 - auto select) on the remote and being mindful that I have to do this on both my boards, or suffer what happens when the wrong colorspace is selected in the Moome..


So now back to my little $34.00 Blu Ray player has no buttons or display on the front, and very few things in the menu. Not bad really for a cheapo and when the right colorspace is selected...


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## mp20748

I'm now using the best of my 3 Blu Ray players. Got a few movies on the way and a 4th player should also be showing up. These were taking with some light in the room...


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## mp20748

These are from an old HD Scape Blu Ray.


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## mp20748

We bak (we're back)..


It's time to crank things up and let's see how well this old 10mp camera will capture what I'll be putting on the screen.


Though my video chain is quite high in bandwidth I dialed things for most of them. So there was three (3) ranges of bandwidth being used and since I did not get record of when I was making changes, I can't point to any particular group and say which was which. I can say that all on this same page were around 1080P, with a slight roll-off.


Any shots going forward would be using the neck boards in their full capability (as shown below). I would dial the neck boards to match the VIM and source capabilities, or otherwise increase the noise floor. This latest VIM allows 300mhz easily, so we the time that past few days to really bring the two together. 



When taking a picture of the SMPTE, you have to capture pointed directly at it, but not from the sides. With the goal also being able to show that both vert/horiz lines groups of the top 2 of the 6 pattern group are matching in every regard. At this resolution you'll also notice where the lenses can't keep up with the finer lines. 



The next selectable on my generator is 288mhz. This is Roll-Off at that resolution, though I can get the neck boards to nearly 300mhz, but they become noisy the higher up they are taking and not track so well. I rate where they are not at 260 to 270mhz. And that's all very clean and very stable power. I had to install large inductors (filters) on the mother board, once for each +/-85 volt rail supply.


So the question might be, why such bandwidth is needed for 1080P.. my answer and you'll see later tonight or tomorrow. This is how to get Depth (2D) and that transparent look. Because you'll need as much flat bandwidth as possible for those truly phenomenal Low End and 2D images. In this case, the higher bandwidth ceiling is what gives me the better Flat bandwidth performance. The better the flat bandwidth, the better the depth and black level performance..


----------



## nidi

more pictures from Gabors Super High Bandwidth mods.

  

 



 chroma 2337 test generator 297Mhz Gabors Super High Bandwidth boards.


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## nidi

image host sites

 

 Corrected Geometry a bit, Gabors super bandwidth mods 322Mhz.


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## mp20748

If you play with that pattern long enough, you'll learn a lot about it...Lol


That's great guys and I'm happy for you..


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> image host sites
> 
> 
> 
> Corrected Geometry a bit, Gabors super bandwidth mods 322Mhz.


So you think that looks good and shows what a modded Marquee can do?

Here is what i see in that test picture. May be the camera and not what is on your screen in real life but...



I can't see the big point of pushing 322Mhz in test pictures in the green channel on a CRT projector like this. Ok better control in higher bandwidth will clean up the picture on the tube faces, but when the best 9" LC lenses used in series with these pictures to project it onto the screen does not resolve 1080p wery well, (MTF~30%) then what is the point these days. 

Here is what my G90 managed to do with some of the same test pattern directly out of the BD player [email protected] with all the RGB channels used.


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> And now for something completely different......
> 
> As some of you might have heard, a CRT meeting has been held a couple of weeks ago in Europe.
> some interesting new prototypes have been presented.
> 
> over the next few weeks, they have been tweaked and enhanced.
> 
> the pictures you are going to see are from Gabor's New Super Mods running 1080P 72 Hz , 195 MHz.
> 
> No ringing , No enhancement , pure 4:2:2 8 Bit and No Peaking!
> 
> 12 fl on a 110" neutral gain screen
> 
> It's all about speed and noise.


No ringing?

How does that picture from King Kong looks with a direct [email protected] source from a BD player, the same way mp20748 do, and with no use of custom porch setting, moving the scan start and ringing problem out of the picture?

Adding a scaler and custom setting into the loop to get a CRT projector to get rid of ringing in the picture and to get 72Hz for 24fps sorces etc. is a sort of "enhancement", is it not?

Have checked the exif and the camera serial number, and it seems to belong to another person that arranged the CRT meet. Does you have some pictures of your own setup nidi? The green test pictures are they from your own setup?


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## mp20748




----------



## ask4me2

Hi Nidi, I know watching moves on CRT setups in 2018 can be a good feeling and experience, but for us that can enjoy more recent technology too, i think there is a good reason CRT is almost dead and we maybe are fooling us self, spending so much time and money on these now.

Here is one picture example from my G90 compared to the source picture, and one from the same persons erarlier modded CRT and K-3 camera as the king kong picture above.







Please try the same source file again on the new Marquee mods, and tell me if the CRT projector manage to get the full 1080p resolution of this rather low detailed, high contrast Black and White picture.


----------



## Dj Dee

If you check the picture you talk about Ask4Me2 then the "Gabor's New Super Mods running 1080P 72 Hz , 195 MHz.
No ringing , No enhancement , pure 4:2:2 8 Bit and No Peaking!"

You see form this picture that the CRT struggles massive with this resolution 1080P then showing enough MTF, compared to the screencap .
This is way below 720P compared more to 480P.


But have to say impressed with the test pictures shown with the CRT pushed way beyond its limit, but for what reason when MTF is about zero?.


----------



## nidi

Gabor vs MP mods showing the difference of true speed and low noise level, notice how much higher the resolution is on these new professionally build boards. This is truly the first tim we see a effective marquee mod that makes a overall positive difference.


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## Dj Dee

This side by side, show picture 1 and 2 "difference" not the projector and mod differences. Will never anyway do in any side by side photo war, when camera and screen are different. Also a total different frame in the film. So only the better photo not the projector.
Little trimming on the convergence MP, and the same camera used, this will end with minimal differences. 
All will come down to time used adjusting and tweaking. It would be fun to see Nidis Crt projector with his camera in this shot.


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## ask4me2

nidi said:


> Gabor vs MP mods showing the difference of true speed and low noise level, notice how much higher the resolution is on these new professionally build boards. This is truly the first tim we see a effective marquee mod that makes a overall positive difference.


How can you be sure that these two pictures proves what you are suggesting here? 

1. It is not the same frame or section from the King Kong Movie. The one to the left is more zoomed out and will have more details than the one to the right.
2. How do you know what picture noise is generated in the two different cameras used, and what is generated in the projector?
3. Taking a Screenshot like this, can only generate a picture. it can not prove how the actual projected picture looks like in real life on the screen. 

If you think the new professionally build boards makes some kind of CRT revolution, make the projector run much higher bandwidth than needed for [email protected], why is there still the big difference from the 1920x1080 source material like Dj Dee shows us with these two pictures.


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## nidi

can someone provide a screencap from this frame:

 http://imageshack.com/i/plzX14ggj


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## ask4me2

Hard to get the exact same frame, but think this is rather close.

There was two different BD releases of The Fifth Element movie, so not sure if this is from the same version used in your link...


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## Dj Dee

nidi said:


> can someone provide a screencap from this frame:
> 
> http://imageshack.com/i/plzX14ggj


Think you can manage this yourselves """"Nidi""""
Why continuing this agenda against Mike? What do you want to prove?
Let this be, let him enjoy the fun with CRT you shall 2.


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## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Think you can manage this yourselves """"Nidi""""
> Why continuing this agenda against Mike? What do you want to prove?
> Let this be, let him enjoy the fun with CRT you shall 2.


I see your point Dj Dee, but the need to proof what the "new professional" CRT mods can do is in nidi's &co's corner at the moment. 
I haven No problem supporting nidi with this BD frame, it will be very easy to compare nidi's screenshots from his modded CRT directly with the BD source this way.....


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## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Hard to get the exact same frame, but think this is rather close.
> 
> There was two different BD releases of The Fifth Element movie, so not sure if this is from the same version used in your link...
> 
> https://postimg.cc/Sj3hHJfD


Also why I reacted to this posted picture from MP, The picture had to little shuttertime from MP, and therefore so much black crush.
So cant be used, AGAIN to show of any mod. Just a photo. If you think it looks this way on the screen think again. I agree with Mike here "Post some own pictures" Nidi. There are reasons why they cant write here themselves. Don't dig your own grave.
This is a screenshot war not a modd projector war. Read the topic.


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## mp20748

Just simply post your shots and let them speak for themselves..


No Darbee or other technology involved, or any form or image enhancements. Just plain and PURE high performance without the need for tricks...


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## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Also why I reacted to this posted picture from MP, The picture had to little shuttertime from MP, and therefore so much black crush.
> So cant be used, AGAIN to show of any mod. Just a photo. If you think it looks this way on the screen think again. I agree with Mike here "Post some own pictures" Nidi. There are reasons why they cant write here themselves. Don't dig your own grave.
> This is a screenshot war not a modd projector war. Read the topic.


From own experience i know how hard it can be to make good photos from CRT projected pictures. 
The refresh flickering combined with different speed on phosphorus and camera shutter speed and dynamic range is some of this. And the fact that there is no sharp "screendoor" and low light makes it hard to get a god focus by using the autofocus system in the camera. The cameras automatic white balance is often thrown off too. Knowing these thing, it is not so hard do understand what some of the posted pictures in here show, and what they not show. Just look at the big difference in the green tone in nidi's own green test pictures. That may be just from the same camera and green tube and the green tone shod be identical?



Using the BD frame as reference is the only way i know to see how good the screenshot picture is recreated. Posting these screenshots on forums so they will be looked at on different screens, sizes and light setting etc. adds many other factors.


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## mp20748

That's because they are two different display systems, and two different pattern sources. The one on the left is a Chroma pattern generator (what I have). I have no idea where the other is coming from. My first time seeing that particular SMPTE pattern.


Neither of them are showing proper resolve, and both are showing various forms of distortion (look at the edges on the left pattern, especially at the top, and the lines on the right patterns bottom left pattern..).


The camera will struggle to capture the top line group at the higher resolutions, but you should still be able to see that both vertical and horizontal lines groups of the top two patterns are matching. The left pattern only shows the top right pattern of the group having the lines somewhat visible, while the left is a near blur. The right pattern has both top patterns blurred. Not sure how either could or would be used to represent resolving the resolution. 



There is also radical differences in each of the 6 pattern groups of both patterns. When the pattern would need to also show consistency in lumen and hue in order to be a viable verification. 



Why was two different systems and sources be used to represent one set of test boards, and be done not explaining that the two patterns are not from the same system.


This is why when real and proper testing is being done, you will find what was used and more about the testing. The Chroma does not produce different SMPTE patterns as you change the resolution. It does have its weakness as most pattern generators are known for, but nothing as obvious as what is showing in these two test patterns.


----------



## ask4me2

The strange bending of the vertical 2x2 lines shows this is from the same projector.... (and the "amputated" exif)does not tell much about the camera, but can be the same too.
Running just the green tube at the same working temperature and with the same light output inside it's normal working area shod give the identical green colors from the phosphorus, no matter the source used to generate these test pattern. The usual way to get a different green reproduction for that tube is to add a color filtered C element. Think it needs to be the camera that make the different green here, not the projector or source... 

I do not know how these test pattern is made or photographed. It shod only be a higher og darker green light intensity between the vertical and horizontal lines if the open and closing of the electrobeem does not manage the frequency used for the green tube, and a color shift when running all tree tubes. 

A normal use of a CRT projector is to run all 3 tubes, so posting only these 1/3 use of the CRT projector test pictures to show what fantastic new modification they have done, does not impress me much... 

I like many of your pictures here mp20748, and think your Marquee looks even better in real life. Have you tried the one picture DJ Dee added from Lucy a while ago.



I think that will be a hard one for a CRT because of the low [email protected] and rather low Ansi contrast values, but will make it rather easy for the camera....


----------



## ask4me2

By the way, here is my G90 on the latest two BD captions pictures.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> By the way, here is my G90 on the latest two BD captions pictures.
> 
> https://postimg.cc/c6DM8bQK
> https://postimg.cc/c6DM8bQKhttps://postimg.cc/c6DM8bQK


Good real CRT pictures


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> I like many of your pictures here mp20748, and think your Marquee looks even better in real life. Have you tried the one picture DJ Dee added from Lucy a while ago.
> 
> I think that will be a hard one for a CRT because of the low [email protected] and rather low Ansi contrast values, but will make it rather easy for the camera....





After more thought on this, I'm thinking I should have that BD. If not I'll see if I can get it locally.


----------



## Dj Dee

Here some screencaps from Lucy
Press the Download original as marked in picture below, put on a memory stick, play it on your player, take photo of your screen  .
1080P screencap





https://i.postimg.cc/0rgrx588/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-06-11.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MTTnmrP8/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-06-52.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/GmFTLD86/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-07-34.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9Xk7JCHg/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-08-00.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/mgfFWjDQ/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-08-46.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/NMz5J7S2/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-10-14.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/CLff2XFh/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-11-00.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/J7sq1T1g/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-11-56.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/YS84gwx3/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-13-04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9QYPxKp4/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-13-18.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/brSdKSfC/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-13-59.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGrSF8nZ/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-14-28.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5yzL8Ry2/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-14-37.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FscVS7kV/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-16-05.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MZf7kv5J/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-16-13.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xdjvB5x6/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-17-48.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Kzwtk2ZW/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-18-00.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/rmKSwmLW/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-18-19.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/65sdBtb2/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-19-33.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/k46bdpxv/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-19-44.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Yq1Q9ZTX/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-20-27.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FHpcbcr3/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-20-34.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/P5XvqxWx/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-21-27.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ht2zQBs0/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-21-41.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/br1SZSVG/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-22-04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/65NGDzTC/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-23-09.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XJRyNkLS/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-23-17.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/tR6xS8RX/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-23-30.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/02dJxmJF/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-23-41.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqgWjx1B/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-24-02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ydZkGSHf/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-24-10.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/wM53q83L/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-24-33.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/vHMcPBSz/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-24-43.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/J0CGC47R/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-25-18.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sf5M9SKx/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-25-40.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/28w3gDsf/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-26-22.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/x11q2ZQN/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-27-33.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Gmgthj37/Skjermbilde-2018-11-20-21-28-53.jpg


----------



## mp20748

I tried to capture several from the Lucy files, but they came out blurred somewhat, but was able to capture the screen cap from Kong (all from memory stick into player). Seems its time to finally dial the focus in better.


----------



## mp20748

Now back to posting a few shots with light in the room, and in this case, there is a so much light that there is light bars showing on the screen. Plus, I'm now also back to using my cheapo camera....but my most recent changes should get the best challenges...


Oh on recent changes, that would be my low voltage power supply being put back into the projector after running things with a stock one..


----------



## mp20748

Dang, I copied the files instead of downloading them..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Now back to posting a few shots with light in the room, and in this case, there is a so much light that there is light bars showing on the screen. Plus, I'm now also back to using my cheapo camera....but my most recent changes should get the best challenges...
> 
> 
> Oh on recent changes, that would be my low voltage power supply being put back into the projector after running things with a stock one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://imageshack.com/i/pluOehxTj


Hi MP, have no problem to see that your pictures don't show at all how you see the image, this pictures with light in the room shows this perfect. So basically you are far from showing "in your pictures" how good your CRT is. I understand and see this perfect and have done a long time, but there is definitely others that don't understand this at all, and want to front their modds. Hope no one is that stupid to believe this. Here we talk margins in difference.


You have to learn more about blender/shutter time and settings in the camera you have. And also the noise in some pictures from you is the camera, I bet that's only in the photo, not on screen.


You take a photo of your screen untouched, without comparing it to the source file . Some other pictures from others earlier referred to are not. Don't have to be a brain surgeon to see that.


----------



## mp20748

Still working with my cheapo camera...


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Hi MP, have no problem to see that your pictures don't show at all how you see the image, this pictures with light in the room shows this perfect. So basically you are far from showing "in your pictures" how good your CRT is. I understand and see this perfect and have done a long time, but there is definitely others that don't understand this at all, and want to front their modds. Hope no one is that stupid to believe this. Here we talk margins in difference.
> 
> 
> You have to learn more about blender/shutter time and settings in the camera you have. And also the noise in some pictures from you is the camera, I bet that's only in the photo, not on screen.
> 
> 
> You take a photo of your screen untouched, without comparing it to the source file . Some other pictures from others earlier referred to are not. Don't have to be a brain surgeon to see that.



I don't want to get into a pissing contest with the other people who are doing Mods, and I've been clear that I'm not their competition because I no longer offer them. I've since remained only a hobbyist when it comes to CRT, but do find it offensive that I'm constantly being harassed and my work is being criticized or used in comparison shot to show it is inferior. And there are times that I'm actually threatened or someone let's me know I'm still on their hate list. I have had several forums contact me concerning postings that were made against me, and that the either deleted what was posted or banned the individual that posted it. and some were Audio forums that I've never visited. I can go on and you would not believe some of the things I've been told concerning this.



So if we can, I'd rather just try to ignore them going forward. But you are correct in that the cameras can't really capture what is on my screen, and you are not the only person that points out things out to me. 



I'm trying to get my hands on a better camera right now. The set of shots I posted from the 5th Element when I mentioned having a lot of light in the room, were done so to show how intense the image is on my screen, that not even some light in the room would wash the image away. And that it be known that light is also a noise under these conditions. 



I believe though CRT is dead, that it will also still have a dedicated group of followers sticking with their setup. These would be a unique group of people, and though some of them are still my customers, they still refuse to let CRT go after I inform the I'm out of the Mod business. So with there being other mod options, that should be a good thing for those still interested in CRT technology and Mods. I've since become a hobbyist and grateful to AVS that they allow me to still post my shots, and to those who encourage me to continue to do so..


----------



## mp20748

Oh and I want to get back to the Lucy files, but think it may be better to dial the setup in better first. I will also like to get my hands on another 03 Vim, if anyone has one cheap. I need it for something.. 



DJ Dee, thank you for adding unique challenges to this hobby..


----------



## mp20748

Back to the other camera


----------



## plain fan

Hey Mike, I always enjoy seeing your posts and learning from them. When I first got into CRTs you, Curt Palme, and a few others posts were always informative and inspirational for me in getting the best out of what I had, Barco 800G.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I don't want to get into a pissing contest with the other people who are doing Mods, and I've been clear that I'm not their competition because I no longer offer them. I've since remained only a hobbyist when it comes to CRT, but do find it offensive that I'm constantly being harassed and my work is being criticized or used in comparison shot to show it is inferior. And there are times that I'm actually threatened or someone let's me know I'm still on their hate list. I have had several forums contact me concerning postings that were made against me, and that the either deleted what was posted or banned the individual that posted it. and some were Audio forums that I've never visited. I can go on and you would not believe some of the things I've been told concerning this.
> 
> 
> 
> So if we can, I'd rather just try to ignore them going forward. But you are correct in that the cameras can't really capture what is on my screen, and you are not the only person that points out things out to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get my hands on a better camera right now. The set of shots I posted from the 5th Element when I mentioned having a lot of light in the room, were done so to show how intense the image is on my screen, that not even some light in the room would wash the image away. And that it be known that light is also a noise under these conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe though CRT is dead, that it will also still have a dedicated group of followers sticking with their setup. These would be a unique group of people, and though some of them are still my customers, they still refuse to let CRT go after I inform the I'm out of the Mod business. So with there being other mod options, that should be a good thing for those still interested in CRT technology and Mods. I've since become a hobbyist and grateful to AVS that they allow me to still post my shots, and to those who encourage me to continue to do so..



You are 100% correct.
Why even bother? I think 99,9% of the mass know the fact and the truth about CRT today. That modds make it some better yes for shore. Let the fun be fun. Take knowledge form others, don't think that you are the CRT GOD alone. 


The last 2 pictures look great also MP


----------



## mp20748

I so happen to change out my 8' HDMI cable, that connects the BD directly to the internal Moome card. I had been using a really cheap and free HDMI cable, and had thought at short distances the quality of the HDMI cable would be irelavent. I also had acquired one of those thicker and better quality one not long ago.



Put the new HDMI (also a lot better) cable into the video chain and a change immediate;y jumped out at me...and I'm using my cheapo camera..


----------



## mp20748

Still using my cheapo camera...


----------



## mp20748




----------



## nidi

Dj Dee said:


> Your shot MP, you will also see that not one single color is even close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the screen cap of this image. This is how the director wanted it to look, and how it shall look with a calibrated display.
> So some "calibrating" like you are told by many many others, is for a reason MP.
> 
> 
> Also result on the calibrating comes with knowledge, and how good your equipment is and if its profiled or not.. Then made a correct profile for the probe on the display you calibrate. With CRT I would recommend a meter that can resolve low light measurements for optimal results in the low end.
> .
> Yes this is expensive, but if you calibrate alot its definitely worth it. I upgraded form a C6 to a Klein K10 A some time ago, and the correctness is visible and things go faster. Calibrated a G90 and a Cine9 with great results . Then this picture of the screen cap will be close what seen on screen then with color, debt and dynamics.
> .
> A screen cap will seam to be more flat and boring looking compared to what seen here, then when you look at your PC screen. This is because of your monitor that don't show this picture with the right light output meant for it. Also not calibrated monitor maybe. I have calibrated my monitor to reference level. Can also be wise to put the camera to 6500 kelvin for more correct color used when capturing the image on screen. And I will bet that your image MP does not look like this on your screen, then your photo. This because not to much knowledge with your camera.
> 
> 
> This is nothing to discuss when this is just logic, and basic picture knowledge. To like a un-calibrated picture is something totally difference. If you like more color "then after a calibrating" more correct would be Its just to add more with all 3 colors together. Then you will get some more oversaturated colors on every color in the whole picture. But you then don't have a perfect calibrated display anymore.



Your so right , DJ Dee.

and history is repeating again


----------



## Dj Dee

Mike any pictures from LUCY yet?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Mike any pictures from LUCY yet?



I ordered the BD for this...


----------



## mp20748

I had mentioned that after I changed my HDMI cable that ran from the BD player directly into the projector (Moome), I saw huge difference on the screen. I'm now able to see mosquito noise that I know should be there. I had a very cheap cable in there, one that was free in the box that my $22.00 flat TV mount came in.


After making the change, I started posting shots using my cheapo (cheap), so for the first time I took some using my better camera, which is still not something great.


But anyway and maybe the camera is not capturing what improvement I am able to see on the screen, the changes did help my when using the cheapo camera.


and be mindful that the entire signal chain, from BD player to CRT's are using no enhancements or processing in any form..


----------



## mp20748

Got another camera to play with. Still on the cheapo side as the go. Will take a little time to learn more about...


----------



## mp20748

Getting familiar with the camera, and had to do something about the harshness of the image.


----------



## thewolfman

nidi said:


> Your so right , DJ Dee.
> 
> and history is repeating again


You really need to stop posting the famouse girl-peeking-out-the-leaves without a contrast modulatiuon card because it'll darken the edges heavely without it. I wont Believe that is a case of your mods but your constant posting without that card make it look strange and people get the wrong idea what your mods are about. 

You need to brighten up the corners and edges to get an even Bright image. THEN post an screenshot of that girl peeking out the rain forrest! Make it justice for the love of God! 

Without it it will always look like a halo of darkness around what is actually good and dandy in the middle. Install it and make your best effort leveling out the brightness thruout the image and then show us. 

Btw, you need to be agressive about this and jump the standard 50 in the middle (leave it like that there) and upper and lower + edges +upper and lower corners at at least 60 then it will look as a digital on screen but on screenshot it will still look a Little darkened. Or you get lucky and get a perfect digital 10-10-10 image to post. I've done so many times with your mods why can't you??

Please!


----------



## nidi

thewolfman said:


> You really need to stop posting the famouse girl-peeking-out-the-leaves without a contrast modulatiuon card because it'll darken the edges heavely without it. I wont Believe that is a case of your mods but your constant posting without that card make it look strange and people get the wrong idea what your mods are about.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> but this is Mike Parker's picture, not mine taken from an earlier post from THIS thread.


----------



## nidi

it's funny that not even Mike Parker recognizes his own screenshots anymore.

and I thought there are only pros on this thread.


----------



## nidi

btw, Wolfman, whatever happened to the porjector parts that Barclay66 sent to you?

are they still in boxes waiting?


----------



## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> You really need to stop posting the famouse girl-peeking-out-the-leaves without a contrast modulatiuon card because it'll darken the edges heavely without it



Concerning needing Contrast Modulation help, as I've mentioned before, that feature is really for multi-image display systems. That is needed to matched edges and gains when there are more than one display being used to make up one or another single display. And though some use it to bump the edges in single displays, it has also been used for on a single display setup. But it's not something I take a liking to..




I took a few shots to show you why the outer edges or areas are darker on some of my shots. To start, it is because the out areas outside of the center area, are not properly focused, nor converged for that sake. Meaning you are noticing what blurring also does to higher resolution CRT display systems, when the schiemflug, Stig and outer focus zones are not tightly dialed in. Look closely at the post shots (below).


----------



## mp20748

I did up a few more for you, and included the "girl peaking out the trees" I also cranked it up for you a bit..


On that same shot, take a look at her hair color and the hair of those in the other shots..




One day I'll dial it all in..


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> You really need to stop posting the famouse girl-peeking-out-the-leaves without a contrast modulatiuon card because it'll darken the edges heavely without it. I wont Believe that is a case of your mods but your constant posting without that card make it look strange and people get the wrong idea what your mods are about.
> 
> You need to brighten up the corners and edges to get an even Bright image. THEN post an screenshot of that girl peeking out the rain forrest! Make it justice for the love of God!
> 
> Without it it will always look like a halo of darkness around what is actually good and dandy in the middle. Install it and make your best effort leveling out the brightness thruout the image and then show us.
> 
> Btw, you need to be agressive about this and jump the standard 50 in the middle (leave it like that there) and upper and lower + edges +upper and lower corners at at least 60 then it will look as a digital on screen but on screenshot it will still look a Little darkened. Or you get lucky and get a perfect digital 10-10-10 image to post. I've done so many times with your mods why can't you??
> 
> Please!


The Fujifilm FinePix S2980 used for that picture 1.4sec Iso-200 at f/3.1 may also add some vignetting to make the picture corners darker than it is on the projected screen in real life.
There is also a series of 3 different lens systems involved in pictures like this, 1. the original camera lens used to capture the girl in the movie, 2. The CRT projector lens 3. MP's camera lens. All of these have its own vignetting added. You cold reduce some of this with modulation card in the Marquee setup, or maybe add a digital correction for the camera lens generating the picture file, but I think many of the newest MP's pictures looks very good, the way there are now. 

I think Nidi and you Mr Wolfman, shod post more real movie related pictures from your own CRT setups, so we can see what CRT screenshots is all about, the proof is in the pudding


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> it's funny that not even Mike Parker recognizes his own screenshots anymore.
> 
> and I thought there are only pros on this thread.


Do not think many CRT professionals (if they still exist) bother with threads like this either..... 

CRT "Pros" may also have the ability to recognize what these pictures show and does not show, looking at the screen shots vs the picture in the screen in real life.

Normal camera equipment is not made for capture these CRT screenshots that in time have more black than light, due to the way the phosphorus is energized.

The CRT way of showing pictures is using our eyes way of adapt and hold the painted scan line information to create the pictures. 
The longer shutter time in the camera help filter out the crt picture more correctly, but the white balance and filling of photons on the camera sensor may not work properly due to the color shift when the RGB tubes have different glowing time/are heated etc. 

Using digital cameras without the low pass filter is also a good idea to sharpen the pictures and not add a more soft effect on an already soft picture. 

So I think it helps to try photographing a lot of these CRT screenshot pictures to recognize the shortcomings when trying to show how the CRT pictures actually looks in real life.

Hope to see you post full frame of the best of your own genuine CRT setup pictures, than to talk down pictures that may not come out that good, and quite frankly is quite easy to recognize and to see too.


----------



## thewolfman

nidi said:


> btw, Wolfman, whatever happened to the porjector parts that Barclay66 sent to you?
> 
> are they still in boxes waiting?



Sorry for a late reply! No, still under the table. I'll do it someday.. but nothing I will ever sell concidering my experiance I had not long ago over a JVC x5900 in a darkened room in a shop. My hopes were set really high but my jaw dropped to the floor with how awful that image came out as.

It was grainy as if it was oversharpened or somewthing, or just how detailed 4K really is, but it was not pleasing to the Eye one bit. 

The shop tested a few things to soften up the image some and the best was [email protected] Not sure if the e-Shift was on but Think he turned off that as well + I moved back one seat-row to counter act even further. 

Yeah, it looked a Little bit better but the contrast was a ****ing joke as the screen was at all times clearly visable as if the projector couldn't turn itself off. My room is dark walls + a section of black ceiling and my CRT has Always made the screen disapear and make the hand not visable in front of my face. But if I have it like that my Eyes will adjust to see shadows after a while so not set up being that dark at all times because that would be wrong as well. To dark.

One other thing that looked awful was the blue water on Universal logo from some Movie that was on. The blue ocean looked cartonish and sort of bleeding heavily. It was not calibrated in the ways you pros do it with a meter and what not, it was only done with the internal help. We both agreed that it had a touch of to much red in the faces, but overall the colors were dull and boring and not as colorful as a CRT projector would produce. The Movie in question was The Incredible Hulk from 2008.

In late dec the JVC N5+N7 will be there in my homwtown to feast on, but concidering how ****ty that 5900 looked like my hopes for a stellar image is greatly reduced.


----------



## Per Johnny

thewolfman said:


> In late dec the JVC N5+N7 will be there in my homwtown to feast on, but concidering how ****ty that 5900 looked like my hopes for a stellar image is greatly reduced.


The JVCs arent plug and play projectors(non projectors or displays are), if not properly set-up they look quite bad. As with crt or any other display it is not enough that you know diplays and calibration in general, you have to know JVCs and how the every adjustments impact the picture to do a good setup. JVCs dosent look good when new, the have to be run in for several hundreds of hours, and then they have a gamma drop to be adjusted. After that is adjusted they are very consistent.

I have been to many JVCs demos, and the have all looked medicore to bad, even if they have been setup by so called experts. As with all displays they can only be judged if you have full control in your own enviroment and time to learn it fully and properly evaluate it.

It was even worse back in the crt era. I went to demos of crts from late 80s to early 00s. I went to many demos of crts, and if I was lucky they looked bad, but mostly they looked extremely bad. But it didnt stop from buying crt, beacause I knew that demos was setup totally wrong.


----------



## thewolfman

Per Johnny said:


> The JVCs arent plug and play projectors(non projectors or displays are), if not properly set-up they look quite bad. As with crt or any other display it is not enough that you know diplays and calibration in general, you have to know JVCs and how the every adjustments impact the picture to do a good setup. JVCs dosent look good when new, the have to be run in for several hundreds of hours, and then they have a gamma drop to be adjusted. After that is adjusted they are very consistent.
> 
> I have been to many JVCs demos, and the have all looked medicore to bad, even if they have been setup by so called experts. As with all displays they can only be judged if you have full control in your own enviroment and time to learn it fully and properly evaluate it.
> 
> It was even worse back in the crt era. I went to demos of crts from late 80s to early 00s. I went to many demos of crts, and if I was lucky they looked bad, but mostly they looked extremely bad. But it didnt stop from buying crt, beacause I knew that demos was setup totally wrong.



I think that these guys were over their head with calibration, much as myself, so there absolutly room for improvement, I'm sure. I told them they need to seal the doors off better from light shining in and mask the stereo systems inside there also. 

Anyway, when the N5+N7 get there my hopes are that they get the necessary tools to do it better. Still, it was fun to finally be able to have look what digital in its prime with a JVC looks like today. 

They used MKV 4k bits from several Movies and not a proper 4k disc or even a proper 1080p disc as they didn't have it. I said I can bring a whole bunch of discs later, that are stellar and well know how they should look like, like Baraka and Samsara or some of my other favorites like American Pshyco. As they pointed out themselfs, MKV is supossedly ripped without any loss of data, I do it so myself but found it to be very unprofessional for a store that sells speakers for 260,000 SEK for a pair and not have a genuine 1080p/4K disc at hand.


----------



## thewolfman

mp20748 said:


> I so happen to change out my 8' HDMI cable, that connects the BD directly to the internal Moome card. I had been using a really cheap and free HDMI cable, and had thought at short distances the quality of the HDMI cable would be irelavent. I also had acquired one of those thicker and better quality one not long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Put the new HDMI (also a lot better) cable into the video chain and a change immediate;y jumped out at me...and I'm using my cheapo camera..



To me this looks perfect! Very filmic looking and one that my local Cinema could never produce. I was last week to see First Man, btw, and man oh man was that a sorry sight. The emergency lamp on top of the exit doors totally ruined the colors and contrast. I go so seldom I keep forgetting how ****ty the image is in the Cinema. It could have been so much better without that green light shining very Close to the screen.


----------



## thewolfman

mp20748 said:


> Getting familiar with the camera, and had to do something about the harshness of the image.



This is not one of your best Days, because I often found this particular image to be with no detail in the circled red area. Way to dark.. so often when I set up my image back in the day I looked yours up to see how far off I am.. and mine shows no black crush and yet I am using your mods so it can't be that. No, I think you have a habit if setting things up to dark and miss out on all the details that are present in the circled area.. 

In fact there is much going on there as any digital would show very fast, and if someone would post how much detail there really is that would prove my Point. It not your mods that are doing this, I'm sure, you go to dark.


----------



## Dj Dee

Find this amusing reading in a CRT screenshot thread. How bad JVC 5900 is


----------



## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> Find this amusing reading in a CRT screenshot thread. How bad JVC 5900 is
> 😂



I'm not trashing it (JVC) I'm saying it was a bad experience. I've given the surrounding issues too on why there was a bad experience. So with that in mind there is great possibilities for a better image next time. Hopefully they have a JVC representative on site to set up the N5+N7 in dec.


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## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> The Fujifilm FinePix S2980 used for that picture 1.4sec Iso-200 at f/3.1 may also add some vignetting to make the picture corners darker than it is on the projected screen in real life.
> There is also a series of 3 different lens systems involved in pictures like this, 1. the original camera lens used to capture the girl in the movie, 2. The CRT projector lens 3. MP's camera lens. All of these have its own vignetting added. You cold reduce some of this with modulation card in the Marquee setup, or maybe add a digital correction for the camera lens generating the picture file, but I think many of the newest MP's pictures looks very good, the way there are now.
> 
> I think Nidi and you Mr Wolfman, shod post more real movie related pictures from your own CRT setups, so we can see what CRT screenshots is all about, the proof is in the pudding



I know, I should get going on this. If only the new Barclay pj wasn't in so many pieces I would have boxed it up. I'll get there as the recent MP, his best, look so good one gets intrigued to raise the stakes on who has best CRT on the planet! 


Btw, I would never trash anyone's projector but inspire them to do better as I know they can. I can/could at one time too. My Learning curve is far higher than most though, but a Little nudge in the side is all it takes to Wake the devil in most !! To watch someone's horn grow is fassinating, be it digital or CRT, the horns start to grow.


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> Sorry for a late reply! No, still under the table. I'll do it someday.. but nothing I will ever sell concidering my experiance I had not long ago over a JVC x5900 in a darkened room in a shop. My hopes were set really high but my jaw dropped to the floor with how awful that image came out as.


So your jaw dropped for the wrong reason then? 
Seeing projectors in shops like that, often does not tell you how good the can be. How do you think a 9" Marquee wold look like if the same peoples had installed it in the same way?



thewolfman said:


> It was grainy as if it was oversharpened or somewthing, or just how detailed 4K really is, but it was not pleasing to the Eye one bit.
> 
> The shop tested a few things to soften up the image some and the best was [email protected] Not sure if the e-Shift was on but Think he turned off that as well + I moved back one seat-row to counter act even further.
> 
> Yeah, it looked a Little bit better but the contrast was a ****ing joke as the screen was at all times clearly visable as if the projector couldn't turn itself off. My room is dark walls + a section of black ceiling and my CRT has Always made the screen disapear and make the hand not visable in front of my face. But if I have it like that my Eyes will adjust to see shadows after a while so not set up being that dark at all times because that would be wrong as well. To dark.


Sending a good [email protected] signal to a JVC using its panels native resolution with e-shift off, will give you the sharpest possible image out of these e-shift models.

If you turn on the e-shift and let the projector scale the 1080p source up to "3K" or send a 4K SDR picture that also automatically turns on the e-shift. The JVC projector will make a somewhat softer higer resolved picture, and you can walk up to the screen and it looks weary much like a CRT on steroids... (in a positive manner if done correctly)
The (ansi and inter image) contrast level is very high compared to a CRT, but you do not get the full fade to black on any of these lamp based modells, X5900 only have one iris, the X7900 X9900 have two and therefor have better fade to black capabilities. Not as total black as lasers or CRT. (a CRT that is not set to crush black and having working temperature on tubes may not fade total to black due to some afterglow of the green tube) 

These JVC projectors also have a lot of modes and adjustment that can make them look bad if the people setting them up, does not know what they are doing, and recognize what may cause the problems you are referring to..



thewolfman said:


> One other thing that looked awful was the blue water on Universal logo from some Movie that was on. The blue ocean looked cartonish and sort of bleeding heavily. It was not calibrated in the ways you pros do it with a meter and what not, it was only done with the internal help. We both agreed that it had a touch of to much red in the faces, but overall the colors were dull and boring and not as colorful as a CRT projector would produce. The Movie in question was The Incredible Hulk from 2008.
> 
> In late dec the JVC N5+N7 will be there in my homwtown to feast on, but concidering how ****ty that 5900 looked like my hopes for a stellar image is greatly reduced.


Sounds to me that the store did not feed the projector with descent source material, and may not know how to make a projector show the picture quality it can produce.
Do not know if the earth and water on the Universal logo is generated from real images or not, the lack of white skies and the lack of shadow and not to forget the big letters etc  may actually mean that it is computer generated graphic that shod look a little cartoonish too...


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## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I'm not trashing it (JVC) I'm saying it was a bad experience. I've given the surrounding issues too on why there was a bad experience. So with that in mind there is great possibilities for a better image next time. Hopefully they have a JVC representative on site to set up the N5+N7 in dec.



I don't see the difference hehe.


You have to wait long for the N5-N7 They are delayed.


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## mp20748

Here you go Wolfman, I took these using the same camera used in the shots you like. I went further and put the video chain into 5th gear to give them a boost somewhat. 5th gear I like, but it needs work, as the Beam Limit can trip easily, so I'll get things in 5th gear from now on, and fix the beam limit later..


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## mp20748




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## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> So your jaw dropped for the wrong reason then?
> Seeing projectors in shops like that, often does not tell you how good the can be. How do you think a 9" Marquee wold look like if the same peoples had installed it in the same way?
> 
> 
> 
> Sending a good [email protected] signal to a JVC using its panels native resolution with e-shift off, will give you the sharpest possible image out of these e-shift models.
> 
> If you turn on the e-shift and let the projector scale the 1080p source up to "3K" or send a 4K SDR picture that also automatically turns on the e-shift. The JVC projector will make a somewhat softer higer resolved picture, and you can walk up to the screen and it looks weary much like a CRT on steroids... (in a positive manner if done correctly)
> The (ansi and inter image) contrast level is very high compared to a CRT, but you do not get the full fade to black on any of these lamp based modells, X5900 only have one iris, the X7900 X9900 have two and therefor have better fade to black capabilities. Not as total black as lasers or CRT. (a CRT that is not set to crush black and having working temperature on tubes may not fade total to black due to some afterglow of the green tube)
> 
> These JVC projectors also have a lot of modes and adjustment that can make them look bad if the people setting them up, does not know what they are doing, and recognize what may cause the problems you are referring to..
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds to me that the store did not feed the projector with descent source material, and may not know how to make a projector show the picture quality it can produce.
> Do not know if the earth and water on the Universal logo is generated from real images or not, the lack of white skies and the lack of shadow and not to forget the big letters etc  may actually mean that it is computer generated graphic that shod look a little cartoonish too... https://youtu.be/PvKiWRTSAzg



I know this was coming about a Universal logo looking cartonish when it is computer generated. But I Think you know what I mean.. it looked like it was bleeding. Oversaturated or whatever it was. And they definitely knew very Little about the features but they should. I asked them how many they had sold and it was only 5 or 6 he said. We also walked up to screen where the guy told me it could be that the screen material, at that short distance, as in 270 cm screen and about 270 at seating distance could make it grainy. Speakers behind the screen material it was, but I found that to unbelievable so not that making it grainy.


I will get back there later to pop a genuine 1080p disc and have a look at N5+N7 at the same time when they arrive. 

Sadly, they did not have a x7900 which is a much better option for a friend that was interested to build a proper home Cinema next to his house. He asked me about x5900 at a time where my hopes of JVC was far higher back then, and told him to go for a N5 instead, but after seeing the x5900 myself I quickly wrote him to stay away from the entry level JVC all together , and never buy one without actually see one in person. The x7900 is probably what he'll buy in the end because of the higher CR. I told him a modded Marquee could possibly be obtained too for far less Money and yet yield a very solid image from it. But he has so Little time left over for Movie watching that my recommendations would be to Eye the x7900 and be done with it.


Btw, I had a look at your link of Universal logo and out of memory, I found the water to be brighter as well, and for that my guess would be the lack of CR. Sounds credible to me because it's pretty dark surroundings and that perticular set up pj struggled to make me happy. It was not the case and I have been there 2 times now to Watch that grainy image. But thank God it's an entry level machine, I'm sure the 7900 will please most CRT:ers and do a much better job overall.


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## ask4me2

Why don't you ask yourself why there is so many CRT enthusiast that have done the JVC "walk" from CRT after the HD1 - HD100 models arrived 10-15 years ago?
Why there still is so many Home theater enthusiast used to CRT in the good old days, that buy JVC and so many who prefers the way JVC D-ILA creates the pictures after all these years?

To check if a screen with a structure make the picture grainy, it is quite simple to do a test and hold up a white A4 paper sheet up against the screen and see if that part of the picture still have the same problem.
Some movies is more grainy than others too, and where a CRT may smooth out some grainy looking movies, a JVC will not. 
That is if it is setup to reveal whats saved in the source file and not tried to look soft by adding noise reduction, etc. . 

I do not know when you used a CRT projector to see a movie lately, maybe it was in Denmark some weeks ago?, but i hope you soon get the time to assemble and tune inn your own modded Marquee, and maybe your store can supply you with a newer correct calibrated JVC so you can do a side by side test in your own cinema. I have found that to test some of the most important black level/contrast picture parameters only by memory, that is not a safe way to get to the "truth" about this..

To go from the X5900 to X7900 shod only make a small upgrade, and not make a very big difference in contrast color gamut and black level etc, so all of these projectors need to be tuned inn correctly to show a good watchable picture.

When it comes to color bleeding you saw in the Universal Logo, i think that is a strange phenomena from a native 3x chip 1920x1080 pixel build light engine if the lens optics is ok and correctly tuned in.

The only time i have seen something that reminds me of that in a digital projector is when the source material is heavily processed or/and up scaled. In a CRT projectors, color bleeding may be a result of several different reasons like asig adjustement, contrast settings, fungus in glycol chamber several different optical adjustment etc. 

To point others that ask you for projector advice to go for a CRT today because they are less expensive but not to do it because they are time consuming?? Yes I see that one when you having boxes with CRT parts laying around and no running CRT projector at the moment. I think seeing is believing when it comes to projectors, so to show them a CRT vs Digital projector setup, i think is the best way to make good advises when it comes to this. 

Here is a comparison I did some moth ago when i compared the Sony G90 vs the old JVC HD100 in my setup. (the HD100 used an anamorpic ISCO II lens and the vertical stretch function in the projector too)


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## Dj Dee

Look like Luke has a allergy problem in your G90 picture there Ask4Me2. But Far from bad at all. But you see what MTF does.
Also the difference between a 5900 and a 7900 will be just how dark you can get black. Normal difference 2X. And some filters, and double iris, that make this possible. 


But like written, a JVC bulb light will never fade 2 black 100% like a CRT, if not using a contrast chip used in Dolby Cinema projectors. But will be *300% better* than CRT with used contrast and shadow detail. All dark scenes will look better on a JVC correct adjusted. But not fade 2 black, CRT will look best.


But if you only look for fade 2 black I advice strongly to turn the digital projector off and sit and enjoy the total darkness. 


This is for shore a cool effect, but NOT important feature when it comes to image quality. Because there is NO info.
For shore I like it, and that's why I use a shutter for 100% fade to black when using my digital PJ. .


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## mp20748




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## mp20748




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## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Look like Luke has a allergy problem in your G90 picture there Ask4Me2. But Far from bad at all. But you see what MTF does.
> Also the difference between a 5900 and a 7900 will be just how dark you can get black. Normal difference 2X. And some filters, and double iris, that make this possible.


Yes the lower optical resolution due to the G90's HD10F lenses lower MTF make the pictures way softer. The white balance in the EOS 5D mk2 camera make some of the color a little off too, and a CRT projector will always vary in light output from the 3 different phosphorus due to heat and how long different parts of the picture have been energized etc. Pausing a movie scene to take a photo, will newer be a 100% representation of how the colors in the movie looks like in real life from a CRT. 
When it comes to our perception of contrast, a doubling between the X5900 to X7900 is not registred as a doubling by our eyes. That is important to understand when reading the specifications form different video equipment.



Dj Dee said:


> But like written, a JVC bulb light will never fade 2 black 100% like a CRT, if not using a contrast chip used in Dolby Cinema projectors. But will be *300% better* than CRT with used contrast and shadow detail. All dark scenes will look better on a JVC correct adjusted. But not fade 2 black, CRT will look best.
> 
> But if you only look for fade 2 black I advice strongly to turn the digital projector off and sit and enjoy the total darkness.


I got a 100% fade to black on my JVC here the other night, the power supply to my house just cut off when I watched a movie, and the UPS connected to the projectors did not kick inn so i cold do a regular shut down...  



Dj Dee said:


> This is for shore a cool effect, but NOT important feature when it comes to image quality. Because there is NO info.
> For shore I like it, and that's why I use a shutter for 100% fade to black when using my digital PJ. .


Full fade to black can give some higher scary and realistic effect to some movies. One example is the black out in one of the scenes in the Dunkirk movie. (0:38:40) Suddenly some full black scenes where you do not see anything with lots of high noise and screaming, does do something with that movie experience. 
A X7900 can be perceived as total black in a short period of time when it goes from a highly illuminated film scene to black. The Dunkirk scene is not highly lit before these blackouts, so my JVC did not give that same creepy realistic feeling as the G90 does... Think the external shutter you have on your projector setup Dj Dee, will bring these particular scene back on track


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## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Yes the lower optical resolution due to the G90's HD10F lenses lower MTF make the pictures way softer. The white balance in the EOS 5D mk2 camera make some of the color a little off too, and a CRT projector will always vary in light output from the 3 different phosphorus due to heat and how long different parts of the picture have been energized etc. Pausing a movie scene to take a photo, will newer be a 100% representation of how the colors in the movie looks like in real life from a CRT.
> When it comes to our perception of contrast, a doubling between the X5900 to X7900 is not registred as a doubling by our eyes. That is important to understand when reading the specifications form different video equipment.
> 
> 
> I got a 100% fade to black on my JVC here the other night, the power supply to my house just cut off when I watched a movie, and the UPS connected to the projectors did not kick inn so i cold do a regular shut down...
> 
> 
> 
> Full fade to black can give some higher scary and realistic effect to some movies. One example is the black out in one of the scenes in the Dunkirk movie. (0:38:40) Suddenly some full black scenes where you do not see anything with lots of high noise and screaming, does do something with that movie experience.
> A X7900 can be perceived as total black in a short period of time when it goes from a highly illuminated film scene to black. The Dunkirk scene is not highly lit before these blackouts, so my JVC did not give that same creepy realistic feeling as the G90 does... Think the external shutter you have on your projector setup Dj Dee, will bring these particular scene back on track


 
Agree, But between a 5900 and a 7900 its quit visible. 12000-30000:1 vs 60000-100000:1 is visible. And in some cases like one 5900 that had 14000:1 VS a 7900 that had 78000:, then same light output calibrated actually huge visibility. Then in BLACK. 0 ire.
And might feel like a doubling or more by our eyes. But yes like you say 20K:1 vs 40K:1 might not seam like double visual.


I now have up and running a Sony 4K with 10K:1 That looks so grey compared to a JVC that I think the projector dies when the shutter shuts the lens. With a 60-120K:1 JVC difference so small that it looks natural. But have to say, that after a Internal Sony gama program adjustment and pro calibration. The picture on it is just fantastic. And also lifted the contrast from 6700:1 to 9700:1. using max zoom.


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## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

A few using the Olympus camera. I'll do more from this BD later, but using a different camera...


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## ask4me2

Nice pictures mp20748. Have One question about the file format used in your newest photos. 
The file info and the ones i see on my screen have lower resolution than 1920x1080 (from BD movie), (the one with the ring is 1738x978) is this caused by some settings used in imageshack, or is that the resolution your .jpg files have out of the camera?

Some times using a lower resolution can make CRT pictures look a little sharper in forums like this.


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Nice pictures mp20748. Have One question about the file format used in your newest photos.
> The file info and the ones i see on my screen have lower resolution than 1920x1080 (from BD movie), (the one with the ring is 1738x978) is this caused by some settings used in imageshack, or is that the resolution your .jpg files have out of the camera?
> 
> Some times using a lower resolution can make CRT pictures look a little sharper in forums like this.



I think it's Imageshack that's lowering the resolution. I have them set at "Do not resize" in Imageshack, and the files are still lowered.


What I have noticed is that of any camera I use or have used, it's not bee3n good at capturing the resolution, but they will do better when you place the camera closer tp the screen.


I just so happen to pop that BD in the player this morning ans was blown away of the Low End detail its loaded with. Its also a very good transfer.


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## mp20748




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## mp20748

Finally took a look at the green blooming problem on my screen, and seen in my shots - now solved. The problem turned out to be the Green CRT lens focus was off. The Red and Blue I'm sure could be off as well, though not as bad as the Green was I'm sure. Actually, I need to do an entire setup. But for now, there is some improvement on the screen and I'm no longer seeing the Green blooming..





And back to my cheapo camera...


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## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

These are using my newly to me Olympus camera. Little bugga is what I'm thinking to call it...


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## mp20748

And now we step up to our next to best camera, which is my cheapo camera.


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## mp20748

From screencaps


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## thewolfman

Soon page 200 and counting!


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## thewolfman

Ok, så WHOs gonna post the best of this one? Colors often shift heavely when Gooogled. My best attemt at it from my old ponny the 2005 9518. Times has passed and see that is quite soft as well but at the time thought it looked good. Cleaning up the joint will be a new years wish and to get the new 9518 up in the air finally.


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## mp20748

A few using my best camera...


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## mp20748

I went back to my cheapo camera because it captures the largest file (resolution). I also made some changes on the neck boards to lesson the harshness. The setup is a direct from BD player to Moome card inserted inside the Marquee. There is no (zero) sharpening or enhancements of any kind from source to CRT's, yet the image could still look sharpened because of the incredible flatness response. Therefore I had to learn how to control the harshness and/or hard edge look to make the image look more natural. This can also be seen by the oil or shining on faces, that I've learned is a distortion in the image. And have also learned how to get rid of it. Check it out...


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## mp20748

Now in these shots, the convergence is clearly off after thise last changes I made to the neck boards, and this setup really needs the focus dialed in better.


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## mp20748

Avatar and my Little Bugga camera...


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## mp20748




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## mp20748

A few more using my little Bugga camera, hoping to also capture my dialing in the center focus better on all three this time...


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## mp20748

A few more using my Little Bugga camera, seeing if it'll do well with low light scenes.. Maybe I should have checked the black level before taking them


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## Dj Dee

Merry Christmas everyone. 


Remember to watch some movies also MP


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Remember to watch some movies also MP



I'll try DJ. I have a ton of BD's and have only watched a handful..


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## mp20748

These I'm using a very different BD player than before. A entry level Sony that someone gave me some years ago. I decided to drive it around the block and see what it looks like being another cheapy and older unit. Impressive for such a device but has an unusual Red push that's hard to understand. Otherwise looks amazing on my screen.


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## thewolfman

I really wish you would do all your best removing that black halo as much you can, just to prove a Point that having them is also a great looking image. Yeah, sure, but NOT having them is far better and since you are in the mix of already raking shots why not go all the way removing them? 


I'll do my part once you do yours concistatly. No more dark halos, please. 



If not, then have a great New Years all the same!


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## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> I really wish you would do all your best removing that black halo as much you can, just to prove a Point that having them is also a great looking image. Yeah, sure, but NOT having them is far better and since you are in the mix of already raking shots why not go all the way removing them?
> 
> 
> I'll do my part once you do yours concistatly. No more dark halos, please.
> 
> 
> 
> If not, then have a great New Years all the same!


Dark halo? 

Hello is not that a big contradiction of the term halo??? Isn't Halo a phenomenon that add and show more light around objects?

A more precise term may be vignetting. In photography, that is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center. A CRT may have this both because of the higher angle the beam hit the phosphorus toward the periphery compared to the image center, and some of the same because the angles inside the optical lenses itself where the light goes trough more glass with bigger angles toward the corners.

And thewolfman, you have not shown us any new CRT pictures recently from a currently running CRT setup with or without darker edges. I find your post toward MP a little to demanding and a little misplaced.....

If you have your 9 "modded Marquee available for cinema viewing, why not show us some screenshots from that showing movies released in 2018. Isn't that just something of your own interest?

Do agree with you about wishing everybody here a happy new Year. Hope our CRT projectors gives us lots of good movie experiences and survives yet another year


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## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> I really wish you would do all your best removing that black halo as much you can.....



To better help me be clear on what you're asking, can you point out this "black halo" so I'm sure of what you mean?




But also, ask4me2 presented something that made a lot of sense here.


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## mp20748

Yet another Sony BD player, but a later and greater model...


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## mp20748

A few more using the same BD player used in above. Excuse the bad convergence, things aren't quite setup well


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## thewolfman

It has been troubling my mind why Kurt and his buddy always come off as having none of the vingetting on there images? A specially Lawrence of Arabia. Now, we don't have them shots here to see but easly found on the AVForums. I wonder how they do it, and as far as I can remember it was never explained for the Viewer. It's a big deal to me to not have vingetting at all, that's all. But think that the camera might magnify the vingetting as well making it worse then it really is irl. 


Other than that your number 3 image from #5974 is popping out the screen!



And for the record, yout last bacth of screenies shows no vingetting to me at least, but then all of sudden there's a whole range of them that shows a lot of it. Like King Kong and Before mentioned Lawrence of Arabia. I know how it must sound, as I don't post screenies myself, but I find it really strange that a Group of people has none of it.. and yet I'm one of those who needs that contrast modulation card to minimize its effects. 

To get some clearification on the matter, MP should have it installed and show us what it can do. But as per usual that's a no go.. not even to prove me wrong. Same thing with Kurt, if I were to ask him to install this card, he too would flat out refuse and rather go into an never ending discussion over it why it shoulnd't. In those regards you two are very much a like. 

In fact, I bet you that Kurt and Greg has no card installed either and yet there screenies are flawless when it comes to vingetting. And if I were to ask how it was done it would again never be revealed.


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## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> ... MP should have it installed and show us what it can do....



It's not on my screen.


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## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> Dark halo?
> 
> Hello is not that a big contradiction of the term halo??? Isn't Halo a phenomenon that add and show more light around objects?
> 
> A more precise term may be vignetting. In photography, that is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center. A CRT may have this both because of the higher angle the beam hit the phosphorus toward the periphery compared to the image center, and some of the same because the angles inside the optical lenses itself where the light goes trough more glass with bigger angles toward the corners.
> 
> And thewolfman, you have not shown us any new CRT pictures recently from a currently running CRT setup with or without darker edges. I find your post toward MP a little to demanding and a little misplaced.....
> 
> If you have your 9 "modded Marquee available for cinema viewing, why not show us some screenshots from that showing movies released in 2018. Isn't that just something of your own interest?
> 
> Do agree with you about wishing everybody here a happy new Year. Hope our CRT projectors gives us lots of good movie experiences and survives yet another year



Yeah, I know it was misplaced. But I'm not chasing the man down with a blow torch I'm trying to make him install the card so we can have a discussion over it. It's not a big deal to do it.. but if the vingetting is not there on screen then it must not be there. 

Now, if we went my way we would have a nice discussion over how different the MP screenies looks then, if they are or not dosen't matter, but we would have better clarity on the matter and only asked as a favor for Another CRT enthusiast. And concidering the amout of Money I poored down MP pockets that's the least he can do for me. Before and after screenies with that card is not a demanding request at all come to Think of it.

Btw, I ordered a X-rite i1 Display Pro today to make sense of the LG OLED 65" C8 that's coming also + my still in the box projector. It will be a treat to get better colors and such but probably a great task to make it happen for a newbi like me. And I praise the last batch of MP images that sure pops out the screen, so I want to get going on this too.


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## mp20748

That problem or issue you're having with the images or the outer edges, according to what I've read about it. It is directly related to photography or a camera issue. And because it is not on my screen, it's not something I'm concerned with, because I would not be expecting perfection from these cheap cameras I've been using. 



If the convergence was better on the outer edges, so would overall image be...


----------



## thewolfman

mp20748 said:


> That problem or issue you're having with the images or the outer edges, according to what I've read about it. It is directly related to photography or a camera issue. And because it is not on my screen, it's not something I'm concerned with, because I would not be expecting perfection from these cheap cameras I've been using.
> 
> 
> 
> If the convergence was better on the outer edges, so would overall image be...


Ok, well then all is good. I will lay it to rest until my own comes out. I have darker edges on many of mine too but can't Think of a time when I saw it on screen. So very likely a camera thing.


----------



## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> Ok, well then all is good. I will lay it to rest until my own comes out. I have darker edges on many of mine too but can't Think of a time when I saw it on screen. So very likely a camera thing.



Yes, and it is common with CRT technology, even more so on projected images. The development of edge contrast (contrast modulation) was a means of enhancing it for the sake of multi-display, or edge matching multiple display devices for a uniform source. Really needed on earlier Blended Displays (two or more side matched). Not so needed with the later blend processors because of the way they rolled-off the blend edge. Processors like the Spyder (Christy Digital) did not need contrast modulation in the projector, you could do it all in the processor.


So the reality of the technology (CRT) is that the light is always brighter in the center area of the tube and fades to the edges. And the problem is made worse with the lens system design. Some are better than others, and this especially applies to the LC chambered tubes. This was and should only be a problem when displaying Graphics, or things like gaming sources, when what you're seeing on the screen is not natural and can be text or pure graphics across the entire screen. For movies and such, where what the producer wanted you to see, he/her put that in the center of the image. And besides CRT, this problem also exist in cameras and optics... why so, because of lenses, they create a certain amount of it because of the way they work, to include, th best way around it is larger lenses. And this is why Barco designed the 12 tube.


----------



## mp20748

I still have one of the lesser BD players from my stash, or the second best of my Sony players.


What I've done in these last shots is swap back in the BEST of my two Moome cards. There's something unique about both, but this one I see as being bossier of the two. There are some differences in the later model Moome cards, where he used different DAC's. I'm also doing something different in the final buffer stage... 



Straight from BD player into Moome, and there is zero anything image manipulating anywhere from source to CRT's


----------



## nidi

Wolfman, the black halo you're seeing is the very low lightoutput that MP has.


----------



## mp20748

I've put my best BD player in the loop to match my best Moome card. With the only weaker links being the 3 cameras...but what I did was use the 2 lesser of the cameras to try and show how well they would be able to show tight and controlled resolution on the brighter images, to include, show how well the video chain maintains that dreaded Clipping problem, that is also so common once you crank things up, but cheap cameras won't do much to reveal that if full blast. 


The first set of shots I'm using the lessor of my 3 cameras:









--------------------------------


Now to the next better camera:


----------



## Dj Dee

Great CRT shots MP.


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## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> Great CRT shots MP.



Why spend money on a JVC x9?


Oh and Nidi, I don't want to be rude and not say anything. It's just that I don't know what to say about it. It's rude to talk above MP head as well. We have an explanation now that it could be the camera, perhaps a mix of ideas. Like I said, I will leave it alone until I mount my projector and see from there. But the Barco 12 inch lenses sounds very plausible to me.


----------



## ask4me2

nidi said:


> Wolfman, the black halo you're seeing is the very low lightoutput that MP has.


Please explain!

Do you know the fL level MP runs at his screen?


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> Yeah, I know it was misplaced. But I'm not chasing the man down with a blow torch I'm trying to make him install the card so we can have a discussion over it. It's not a big deal to do it.. but if the vingetting is not there on screen then it must not be there.
> 
> Now, if we went my way we would have a nice discussion over how different the MP screenies looks then, if they are or not dosen't matter, but we would have better clarity on the matter and only asked as a favor for Another CRT enthusiast. And concidering the amout of Money I poored down MP pockets that's the least he can do for me. Before and after screenies with that card is not a demanding request at all come to Think of it.


 ok i think i see some of your point here.
The card you are referring to, to get these zone adjustment may not do a good job with the higher bandwidth these modded Marquees are running? 
The typical left side ringing on the Marquees running standard BD player scan line settings, may be a indication that these projectors run a little over its capabilities even for [email protected] too.... 

Think some of the differences you are mentioning from others screenshots is in the use of the settings and the camera itself.

The old analog film way to correct this was to stop down and use the aperture in the camera lens to reduce the vignetting and make the distribution of light more evenly over the film plane.

Here is two test picture (from https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx) showing this for the 50mm Sigma lens I often used for CRT screenshots.

f/1.4









f/5.6









Often use that lens at something between f/4 > f/11 for CRT screenshots...

In the digital camera world the camera itself often can compensate for some of the lens and sensor vignetting too. 



thewolfman said:


> Btw, I ordered a X-rite i1 Display Pro today to make sense of the LG OLED 65" C8 that's coming also + my still in the box projector. It will be a treat to get better colors and such but probably a great task to make it happen for a newbi like me. And I praise the last batch of MP images that sure pops out the screen, so I want to get going on this too.


Think the LG OLED 65" C8 is one of the best looking TV at the moment, if you get a good one without the typical uneven uniformity issues.
The X-rite i1 Display Pro is not very good probe to use on projectors in general, and in my experience they shod be used with caution on CRT projectors that always drift during the different heating of the phosphorus etc, and needs very good probes for the near black end.


----------



## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> ok i think i see some of your point here.
> The card you are referring to, to get these zone adjustment may not do a good job with the higher bandwidth these modded Marquees are running?
> The typical left side ringing on the Marquees running standard BD player scan line settings, may be a indication that these projectors run a little over its capabilities even for [email protected] too....
> 
> Think some of the differences you are mentioning from others screenshots is in the use of the settings and the camera itself.
> 
> The old analog film way to correct this was to stop down and use the aperture in the camera lens to reduce the vignetting and make the distribution of light more evenly over the film plane.
> 
> Here is two test picture (from https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx) showing this for the 50mm Sigma lens I often used for CRT screenshots.
> 
> f/1.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> f/5.6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Often use that lens at something between f/4 > f/11 for CRT screenshots...
> 
> In the digital camera world the camera itself often can compensate for some of the lens and sensor vignetting too.
> 
> 
> 
> Think the LG OLED 65" C8 is one of the best looking TV at the moment, if you get a good one without the typical uneven uniformity issues.
> The X-rite i1 Display Pro is not very good probe to use on projectors in general, and in my experience they shod be used with caution on CRT projectors that always drift during the different heating of the phosphorus etc, and needs very good probes for the near black end.


A lot of god things were said here but a Quick post about the probe to start with.. is there a better meter I could order? Mine is still in transit and could easly be sent back, probably for free even. I thought the Xrite was the way yo go after careful Reading but you seem to know a great deal about this. But mine has a price tag at 2500 SEK which seems like the limit for me.. but still, do tell what you would eyeing for my needs.


And thanks for the images you showed about vingetting, good stuff. I read but I may not learn.


----------



## thewolfman

I had a good look at the vingetting on my old MP VIM 03 and to my surprise there is none what so ever. Just plain old blackness that, I'm sorry to say it with anyone with a JVC at hand, will just not match at all.


Nor do I see any vingetting on most of my images so I take that back. What parts did I use? Oh, that would be MP bits all and all. The images shown are all MP VIM 03 + VNB on green + red.. Blue VNB went to **** on arrival so used a stock there.


No, CRT rules the hell of 0 IRE. We own it. And that's what I like so no need to change for anything else on the for seeable future. 

But plenty of Hugs and Kisses for you Digitals who still belives in 0 IRE on their STOCK JVC !! 

But we have hopes for you guys in the future.. so see you then!


----------



## thewolfman

*Crt still rocks 0 ire*


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> Why spend money on a JVC x9?
> 
> 
> Oh and Nidi, I don't want to be rude and not say anything. It's just that I don't know what to say about it. It's rude to talk above MP head as well. We have an explanation now that it could be the camera, perhaps a mix of ideas. Like I said, I will leave it alone until I mount my projector and see from there. But the Barco 12 inch lenses sounds very plausible to me.


Just crazy i Guess about the NX9. LOL


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> I had a good look at the vingetting on my old MP VIM 03 and to my surprise there is none what so ever. Just plain old blackness that, I'm sorry to say it with anyone with a JVC at hand, will just not match at all.
> 
> 
> Nor do I see any vingetting on most of my images so I take that back. What parts did I use? Oh, that would be MP bits all and all. The images shown are all MP VIM 03 + VNB on green + red.. Blue VNB went to **** on arrival so used a stock there.
> 
> 
> No, CRT rules the hell of 0 IRE. We own it. And that's what I like so no need to change for anything else on the for seeable future.
> 
> But plenty of Hugs and Kisses for you Digitals who still belives in 0 IRE on their STOCK JVC !!
> 
> But we have hopes for you guys in the future.. so see you then!


So these pictures is from your CRT currently running now in 2019? If so, nice to see you got your CRT up and running again. 

have not taken any digital projector pictures from the Cars movie on any of my projectors, but here is one Andreas posted erlier in another forum from a digital projektor. 
See if that does not have some nice details, black levels colors etc, features to i too..



vs 



If you think your CRT show us pictures that beat every JVC projector around, i hope you soon get to see a properly calibrated JVC...
Then you can see all the resolution and the dark details you are missing in your pictures. Do you actually prefer the way the razor sharp text shows up in the picture with the spaceship, how do you think this will look like from a projector that does not get all the "halo" and light polution around every light source in that picture?




And by the way, you wont see vignetting or halo meffekts in the VIM or the electronic domene of the projector etc. These effects are related to how the photons is created and managed by the optic, reflected from the screen etc.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I had a good look at the vingetting on my old MP VIM 03 and to my surprise there is none what so ever. Just plain old blackness that, I'm sorry to say it with anyone with a JVC at hand, will just not match at all.
> 
> 
> Nor do I see any vingetting on most of my images so I take that back. What parts did I use? Oh, that would be MP bits all and all. The images shown are all MP VIM 03 + VNB on green + red.. Blue VNB went to **** on arrival so used a stock there.
> 
> 
> No, CRT rules the hell of 0 IRE. We own it. And that's what I like so no need to change for anything else on the for seeable future.
> 
> But plenty of Hugs and Kisses for you Digitals who still belives in 0 IRE on their STOCK JVC !!
> 
> But we have hopes for you guys in the future.. so see you then!



So you understand Wolfman. 
CRT rules the hell out of 0 IRE *not correct*, . Laser projectors like the new Sony VW860 have complete 100% 0 IRE. Also the new Laser JVC. And also have better used contrast available than any CRT. Also have the technology and resolution to just burry CRT. 


Bulb projectors still have to have the bulb running when 0 IRE, and therefor some stray light.
As you know I can get it faster to 0 IRE than any CRT can. With my shutter 
Today with 4K UHD HDR and so on and even BD, CRT is kind of finish. Like also MP says GAME OVER. But fun to have as a hobby, but not for quality and performance.
If you had a good digital projector side by side with your CRT you will give it up 100%


No projector is perfect, no technology is perfect.


----------



## mp20748

Let me clear a few things up here... 



I'd like to start by bringing up a conversation that both a former engineer of Electrohome and I had with a Barco engineer during a training class at Barco in Sacramental California maybe 10 or so years ago. The class was on a Barco DLP Projector that was also being used at some of our service locations. This training was mostly focused on the light engine, DLP assembly and everything that directly supported it. I can't remember the model, that we refereed to based on the light engine being used. It was huge to be a Digital Projector in comparison to a Marquee or G90 or such size beast. The class lasted an entire week, and with it being a rather small class (less than 15 people) there was plenty of time to discuss the various technologies and even hear what the Barco engineers thought was on the subject. It was also a good time to learn about the Barco 909 that even at that time was their last CRT manufactured. Actually, the best part of the class was the discussions on the technologies, where we also got to demonstration in one of the larger training rooms on their Cinema Series DLP projector. That included the very large units they also were using in theaters. I say all of this to point out we were right in the heart of Barco's US training faculty, where they had the BEST of their Digital Projection technology, and whee some of their best engineers were, though I had two phone contacts with two other engineers that were located elsewhere in the states, but that California operation had two of their very well known engineers that had been around since the Barco 808 series...


But here is what came up when we got into a really deep conversation on the various conversations during that time. They (both engineers there) had discussed during the training that the present state of Digital technology, they referred to as Pixel Based, would NEVER be able to completely be better than CRT technology, because of two things. 1, being the Lamp or light will never be able to turn completely off as what can so easily happen on CRT technology. 2, there is a huge difference in scanning lines of video on a screen and recreating these scanned lines with millions of pixels on a screen. These two problems will always exist with the present state of digital technology, while with CRT, the lines are PAINTED on the screen during the scan/trace of the images. I'm trying to remember what was being said as best I can, but in a nut shell, they were saying the present state of Digital technology will never be able to have that Natural look like CRT, because the images is being made up of millions of pixels. I hope I'm explaining this at least close, and I agree that the light will never be controlled as well as what happens with CRT, nor can you recreate what is analog by the use of many pixels flawlessly. Digitals has come along ways, and the guys were right when they said it will never be able to reproduce a natural image, in the sense of what a CRT can scan on a screen.


The game for CRT is over, that would be big sales and mods for the most part. But would make perfect sense for the perfectionist that prefer a more natural image. This person would need to devote themselves to making CRT technology a hobby and understand that they may need to get acquainted with using some tools. CRT for sure is dead concerning demand, but far from being replaced for naturalness. 



Where digital really have the ups on CRT is still light output and resolution capability, where CRT right out the box struggles, But even with these limitations, there are some that still prefer the CRT. I still have customers that I've been trying to tell them for the longest, if you're not trying to make a hobby out of CRT, move on. I tell them to go to the nearest Best Buy and go into their HIGH END Section and check out the newer Digitals, they have and they still come back wanting to hold onto their CRT. I even stopped doing mods for them, they say they will hold onto what they have..


----------



## ask4me2

The natural world is not scanned line by line in the first place, it have no limitation of color gamut, is 3D with no limits of resolution other than atoms or brigtnes etc. 
The source material we use is build up and saved as pixels in picture frames, typical from scanned analog film frames or digital cameras etc. . 

I think these engineers 10-20+(?) years back did not have all the knowledge all the digital projector engineers have today, and to state "Digital technology will *never* be able to have that Natural look like CRT" is a very long time technology wise, and remenber these CRT engineers have at that time not seen the digital technology of today, using lasers with full fade to black dimming or contrast chip etc. 

I think many CRT enthusiast is fooling them self to believe the thing these even today in 2019...


----------



## Dj Dee

For me its many things in a picture that counts. And yes a shutdown to black is cool and for me important. But is by far the less important in a total picture image quality. Might be the less important of all.


0 Ire, is no image.  I have to say that I don't see my self going into my cinema and say wow this film was cool it had no image at all just black.
The important thing is all the way 0-100%, resolution, sharpness, gamma, ON/OFF, ansi contrast, brightness, intrasene contrast, and so on.
And almost forgot a calibrated display.


I also think many CRT enthusiast is fooling them self to believe things from the old days. That's for shore, does it matter, no no.
CTR was a great technology, and I had many many hour of joy using it. Might have to say even more adjusting it hehe.





https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-crt-projectors/900831-screenshot-war-200.html#


----------



## Ericglo

While I was a big CRT fan, nothing touches an OLED for absolute black on/off cr. I recently watch Green Lantern the animated series that a friend gave me. I usually don't watch stuff like this, but I was mesmerized by the beautiful picture on an OLED.


Please don't post any pics from the NX9. It might be like the opening of Star Wars.


----------



## mp20748

Ericglo said:


> While I was a big CRT fan, nothing touches an OLED for absolute black on/off cr. I recently watch Green Lantern the animated series that a friend gave me. I usually don't watch stuff like this, but I was mesmerized by the beautiful picture on an OLED.



I'm glad you mentioned an OLED and 100% agree, though my comments were mostly for projected display technology, I was asked to mount an 65" LG OLED TV. And man that thing produced images that literally draws you into it. Really didn't get to really get into the black level, but did notice that it was the first digital that I've seen that did exceptionally well with the entire lower range. I mean unlike that problem I sometime mention about digital's not seeming to have a linear lower end, that LG had a complete lower end ability that was stunning to say the least. The entire lower end was visible, which made for incredible detail. The display surface was flat. The TV looked like a big piece of thick glass with a box mounted on the lower back.


But not only was the low end range so tight, the colors also had a phenomenal range to them. Color hues and flesh tones were broad and amazingly distinct. I later saw an OLED made by Sony that was similar, but that LG was mind boggling different. Or it could have been the source difference.


That LG OLED surely did not have that dreaded something is absent from the lower range problem I've seen on everything digital up to that point. Combine that with it's amazing color pallet range, and it's the best thing I've seen to date in digital's. The image is not completely 100% natural looking, but its ability to bring out so much detail and more true to life colors makes it really easy on the eyes. And unlike the other large flat screen TV's I've seen, the image is not harsh at all. 



My wife's cousin gave us a 50" flat screen TV for Christmas that I mounted in the family room. Some kind of off brand make/model that looks pretty much like the rest of them. Really hard to keep my eyes on it for any long period of time, because it looks too digital..


----------



## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> So these pictures is from your CRT currently running now in 2019? If so, nice to see you got your CRT up and running again.
> 
> have not taken any digital projector pictures from the Cars movie on any of my projectors, but here is one Andreas posted erlier in another forum from a digital projektor.
> See if that does not have some nice details, black levels colors etc, features to i too..
> 
> 
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> 
> If you think your CRT show us pictures that beat every JVC projector around, i hope you soon get to see a properly calibrated JVC...
> Then you can see all the resolution and the dark details you are missing in your pictures. Do you actually prefer the way the razor sharp text shows up in the picture with the spaceship, how do you think this will look like from a projector that does not get all the "halo" and light polution around every light source in that picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way, you wont see vignetting or halo meffekts in the VIM or the electronic domene of the projector etc. These effects are related to how the photons is created and managed by the optic, reflected from the screen etc.


Just a Quick response over this. Hell yes, that JVC kicks ass and have a blacker than black inside the image over mine, but that digital shot was made with a 100% surtanty in a room without any stray light whatsoever. Hence the richer colors and such. I have a 3 windows with only plain shutters on them and have to Watch like at 02:00 in Winter to get absolute blackness. Mine are more than likely taken at a brighter conditions so not at all surprised at you JVC showing absolute 100% black where it shouldn't on those shots. 

But, if I were to blackout the windows to 100% I can match that I'm sure. I have the curtains in a box that I need to put up.. then I will revist my CARS opening and give you hell I'm sure. Sharpest in the universe?? No, but sure as hell black as it !! Yours? No, no ****ing way you are matching that at all. Hence the THX shutters on a JVC x7900..


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> Just a Quick response over this. Hell yes, that JVC kicks ass and have a blacker than black inside the image over mine, but that digital shot was made with a 100% surtanty in a room without any stray light whatsoever. Hence the richer colors and such. I have a 3 windows with only plain shutters on them and have to Watch like at 02:00 in Winter to get absolute blackness. Mine are more than likely taken at a brighter conditions so not at all surprised at you JVC showing absolute 100% black where it shouldn't on those shots.
> 
> But, if I were to blackout the windows to 100% I can match that I'm sure. I have the curtains in a box that I need to put up.. then I will revist my CARS opening and give you hell I'm sure. Sharpest in the universe?? No, but sure as hell black as it !! Yours? No, no ****ing way you are matching that at all. Hence the THX shutters on a JVC x7900..


Good luck with that. 

Taking screenshots with a good DSLR camera, it shod be quite easy to make a digital DLP projector even with bad black level look very good, it is just to dial in the correct iso, aperature and shutter speed that makes the darkest grey look black. More light to play with makes the photo process much easier than to take photos of a much darker CRT. Even if the projectors have the same fl. on the screen, the CRT's short glowing times between the picture refreshing and the low MTF in the optics, makes it real impossible to recreate the same experience we get with our eyes that adapt to both the digital and the CRT way of projecting movies. I must admit I love to use both technologies, but switching between them makes some adaption time for the eyes, and today i think the digital is much easier and faster to adapt to, especially for the good D-ILA with very good black level and contrast, and when using e-shift, it looks very CRT like 20cm from the screen too... 

When it comes to problems with light pollution from the outside or in the room itself, that is a very common response in picture threads like this. So when using a high end CRT, why not make the ideal blackout working environment in the first place? Have newer understand why anyone that range their CRT projectors so high against other home theater picture technologies, needs to bring up troubles like that with their home cinema room. There is one thing to not been able to photograph how the picture looks on the screen, that is not the primary use of a Home theater to begin with, but to only be able to see what the projector can do at 02:00 in Winter.... 

A CRT need a 100% black and light controlled room for sure, but good black level digitals need that too. One problem with CRT is they have pretty low intercene contrast due to their 3 wide open lenses projecting from white phosphorus etc. An indication of that can be read out of the ANSI contrast data. The Sony G90 is one of the CRT with the highest ANSI contrast at maybe 40-60:1.... 

A good new D-ila JVC have around 300:1. (5x better than the best CRT). Our eyes need typically a doubling of measured data to be able to see different in contrast and light etc, 5x of some parameters is therefor quite easy to see in real life...

this means that when there is some light in a dark projected picture in a bat-cave of a room, there will be 5x less light pollution in a digital than in a CRT. The full fade to black (with some green glowing phosphorus depanding of how hard the tubes work) is the only part a good CRT can do better than most lamp based digital. 

The best way of seeing this is to have a side by side digital vs CRT setup in a good black light controlled room, both projectors setup so they show their best possible picture, and how they come out of black etc. I do have a running G90 CRT setup and a newer JVC projector, so i know a little bit when it comes to comparing these in real life too.


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> A CRT need a 100% black and light controlled room for sure, but good black level digitals need that too. One problem with CRT is they have pretty low intercene contrast due to their 3 wide open lenses projecting from white phosphorus etc. An indication of that can be read out of the ANSI contrast data. The Sony G90 is one of the CRT with the highest ANSI contrast at maybe 40-60:1....
> 
> *A good new D-ila JVC have around 300:1. (5x better than the best CRT)*. Our eyes need typically a doubling of measured data to be able to see different in contrast and light etc, 5x of some parameters is therefor quite easy to see in real life...
> 
> this means that when there is some light in a dark projected picture in a bat-cave of a room, there will be 5x less light pollution in a digital than in a CRT. The full fade to black (with some green glowing phosphorus depanding of how hard the tubes work) is the only part a good CRT can do better than most lamp based digital.
> 
> The best way of seeing this is to have a side by side digital vs CRT setup in a good black light controlled room, both projectors setup so they show their best possible picture, and how they come out of black etc. I do have a running G90 CRT setup and a newer JVC projector, so i know a little bit when it comes to comparing these in real life too.



I hate these Digital/CRT pissing contest debates or discussions. But would like the idea of doing a side-by-side as you mentioned but not using a G90.. I would also like to add that I suspect that I should be able to get quite close to that 300:1 or maybe even exceed it, because of course all measured CRT data deals with the well known CRT's like G90, 909, etc. For which these sets had noisy and low bandwidth video chains, whereas, I have something very different on my ceiling. And can simple state factually that there is a huge difference with CRT technology when it is fully capable to resolving the 1080P resolution. And it get better when the bandwidth has a higher Flatness (not -3) number than the required necessary rating. To add, it also has an outrageous light output, that even at full blast, full black is still present. Even at the light output shown in my shots, if you saw what's on my screen, you would think it is a Digital projector in intensity. And the "intrascene" is so well abundant, that even the cheap cameras are capturing small parts of it from my screen..


But what I have on my ceiling is a project that's not quite complete, and may not be because I'll need to do more work on the gain amplifier I'm using and I'm not feeling up to that. So it's as-is and will most likely stay that way, because the only other thing I'll tackle is the left edge ringing. Oh yeah, that is a must, I gotta solve that problem. 



Not sure if it was noticed, but I have made about 21 different changes to the video chain over these last series of shots posted here. About 17 of then was done directly to the neck boards where I've demonstrated the various abilities I've acquired over the years to be able to change the image in some way or the other. Spot size, texture, edges, background detail, depth, sharpness, etc. But of them all, it's because of the phenomenal Flat and clean Bandwidth from Moome to CRT. In my estimation, should make it at least 5 times more of a contender than any of the best stock CRT's manufactured. And though I'm not sure I'll keep it on the ceiling, for sure it has rightfully erened the name BEAST..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I hate these Digital/CRT pissing contest debates or discussions. But would like the idea of doing a side-by-side as you mentioned but not using a G90.. I would also like to add that I suspect that I should be able to get quite close to that 300:1 or maybe even exceed it, because of course all measured CRT data deals with the well known CRT's like G90, 909, etc. For which these sets had noisy and low bandwidth video chains, whereas, I have something very different on my ceiling. And can simple state factually that there is a huge difference with CRT technology when it is fully capable to resolving the 1080P resolution. And it get better when the bandwidth has a higher Flatness (not -3) number than the required necessary rating. To add, it also has an outrageous light output, that even at full blast, full black is still present. Even at the light output shown in my shots, if you saw what's on my screen, you would think it is a Digital projector in intensity. And the "intrascene" is so well abundant, that even the cheap cameras are capturing small parts of it from my screen..
> 
> 
> But what I have on my ceiling is a project that's not quite complete, and may not be because I'll need to do more work on the gain amplifier I'm using and I'm not feeling up to that. So it's as-is and will most likely stay that way, because the only other thing I'll tackle is the left edge ringing. Oh yeah, that is a must, I gotta solve that problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if it was noticed, but I have made about 21 different changes to the video chain over these last series of shots posted here. About 17 of then was done directly to the neck boards where I've demonstrated the various abilities I've acquired over the years to be able to change the image in some way or the other. Spot size, texture, edges, background detail, depth, sharpness, etc. But of them all, it's because of the phenomenal Flat and clean Bandwidth from Moome to CRT. In my estimation, should make it at least 5 times more of a contender than any of the best stock CRT's manufactured. And though I'm not sure I'll keep it on the ceiling, for sure it has rightfully erened the name BEAST..



Ansicontrast is a weakness in all CRT modded or not. And one thing for shore bandwidt have noting to do with Ansi Contrast. If you are lucky MP you measure max up to 100:1. Just info.
This is not to drag down CRT, but its the raw fact.

I think that also 80:1 as I wrote earlier is way to high for any CRT but I was wrong so done some editing. A Barco 808 modded 16:1 Barco 909 47:1, that must have been more the room. So i guess your Marquee will be about 100:1 then correct measured how it shall be done like Ask4Me2 did later in this thread..
If you want to try it on you r Marquee send me a PM, i post you all you need and instruksjons.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> Taking screenshots with a good DSLR camera, it shod be quite easy to make a digital DLP projector even with bad black level look very good, it is just to dial in the correct iso, aperature and shutter speed that makes the darkest grey look black. More light to play with makes the photo process much easier than to take photos of a much darker CRT. Even if the projectors have the same fl. on the screen, the CRT's short glowing times between the picture refreshing and the low MTF in the optics, makes it real impossible to recreate the same experience we get with our eyes that adapt to both the digital and the CRT way of projecting movies. I must admit I love to use both technologies, but switching between them makes some adaption time for the eyes, and today i think the digital is much easier and faster to adapt to, especially for the good D-ILA with very good black level and contrast, and when using e-shift, it looks very CRT like 20cm from the screen too...
> 
> When it comes to problems with light pollution from the outside or in the room itself, that is a very common response in picture threads like this. So when using a high end CRT, why not make the ideal blackout working environment in the first place? Have newer understand why anyone that range their CRT projectors so high against other home theater picture technologies, needs to bring up troubles like that with their home cinema room. There is one thing to not been able to photograph how the picture looks on the screen, that is not the primary use of a Home theater to begin with, but to only be able to see what the projector can do at 02:00 in Winter....
> 
> A CRT need a 100% black and light controlled room for sure, but good black level digitals need that too. One problem with CRT is they have pretty low intercene contrast due to their 3 wide open lenses projecting from white phosphorus etc. An indication of that can be read out of the ANSI contrast data. The Sony G90 is one of the CRT with the highest ANSI contrast at maybe 40-60:1....
> 
> A good new D-ila JVC have around 300:1. (5x better than the best CRT). Our eyes need typically a doubling of measured data to be able to see different in contrast and light etc, 5x of some parameters is therefor quite easy to see in real life...
> 
> this means that when there is some light in a dark projected picture in a bat-cave of a room, there will be 5x less light pollution in a digital than in a CRT. The full fade to black (with some green glowing phosphorus depanding of how hard the tubes work) is the only part a good CRT can do better than most lamp based digital.
> 
> The best way of seeing this is to have a side by side digital vs CRT setup in a good black light controlled room, both projectors setup so they show their best possible picture, and how they come out of black etc. I do have a running G90 CRT setup and a newer JVC projector, so i know a little bit when it comes to comparing these in real life too.



This comes all up to picture understanding and how everythng is built together. Like you say 40-60:1 if you have a extremely good CRT unit. For shore a CRT beats any digital bulb projector without a shutter like mine. 
Then in no info in picture 0 ire. If a digital owner wants to get no info in picture just like a CRT turn the dam thing off hehe


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> I hate these Digital/CRT pissing contest debates or discussions. But would like the idea of doing a side-by-side as you mentioned but not using a G90.. I would also like to add that I suspect that I should be able to get quite close to that 300:1 or maybe even exceed it, because of course all measured CRT data deals with the well known CRT's like G90, 909, etc. For which these sets had noisy and low bandwidth video chains, whereas, I have something very different on my ceiling. And can simple state factually that there is a huge difference with CRT technology when it is fully capable to resolving the 1080P resolution. And it get better when the bandwidth has a higher Flatness (not -3) number than the required necessary rating. To add, it also has an outrageous light output, that even at full blast, full black is still present. Even at the light output shown in my shots, if you saw what's on my screen, you would think it is a Digital projector in intensity. And the "intrascene" is so well abundant, that even the cheap cameras are capturing small parts of it from my screen..
> 
> 
> But what I have on my ceiling is a project that's not quite complete, and may not be because I'll need to do more work on the gain amplifier I'm using and I'm not feeling up to that. So it's as-is and will most likely stay that way, because the only other thing I'll tackle is the left edge ringing. Oh yeah, that is a must, I gotta solve that problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if it was noticed, but I have made about 21 different changes to the video chain over these last series of shots posted here. About 17 of then was done directly to the neck boards where I've demonstrated the various abilities I've acquired over the years to be able to change the image in some way or the other. Spot size, texture, edges, background detail, depth, sharpness, etc. But of them all, it's because of the phenomenal Flat and clean Bandwidth from Moome to CRT. In my estimation, should make it at least 5 times more of a contender than any of the best stock CRT's manufactured. And though I'm not sure I'll keep it on the ceiling, for sure it has rightfully erened the name BEAST..


It's not to start a Digital/CRT pissing contest, but more like a replay to some of what is said about new high end digitals in CRT threads like this.

Both picture projection technologies needs some time getting used to when switching, and think a side by side test is very enlightening when it comes to how good the projectors is to show details in the source materials in movies and test pictures etc. 

Have not seen your CRT BEAST in action, and can only take your word for how good it is.... Did not noticed the changed done to your projector from all the pictures, think that is next to impossible to do from screenshots when different cameras and photo setups is in the loop. 
By the way, if a rather "compact" 9" Electrohome Marquee (28"x32"x17" size) with "only" 84Kg (186lb) is a BEAST, what is a 39"x42"x15" Sony G90 with its 110kg (242lb) then?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> This comes all up to picture understanding and how everythng is built together. Like you say* 40-60:1* if you have a extremely good CRT unit. For shore a CRT beats any digital bulb projector without a shutter like mine.
> Then in no info in picture 0 ire. If a digital owner wants to get no info in picture just like a CRT turn the dam thing off hehe



Please tell how you can pull these facts out of your head so easily, besides a Crystal Ball or Ouija Board, what mystifying tool are you using?





*
*


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Both picture projection technologies needs some time getting used to when switching, and think a side by side test is very enlightening when it comes to how good the projectors is to show details in the source materials in movies and test pictures etc.



Absolutely, and would be the best way of determining this. 



And hopefully when DJ Dee realizes his Crystal Ball needs calibration, maybe he'll come over the pond and bring that JVC that has the special device that makes his JVS better than any CRT. And when he places it side by side to the Beast... and after he sees the abundance of Background and Intrascene Detail jumping off my screen, Distinct and clear detail and things on the wall and even being able to see cracks and lines in the wall, it's then that he'll experience a much needed mind change..









> Have not seen your CRT BEAST in action, and can only take your word for how good it is.... Did not noticed the changed done to your projector from all the pictures, think that is next to impossible to do from screenshots when different cameras and photo setups is in the loop.
> By the way, if a rather "compact" 9" Electrohome Marquee (28"x32"x17" size) with "only" 84Kg (186lb) is a BEAST, what is a 39"x42"x15" Sony G90 with its 110kg (242lb) then?



maybe I should have used the word Mighty or even Exceptional instead..


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Ansicontrast is a weakness in all CRT modded or not. And one thing for shore bandwidt have noting to do with Ansi Contrast. If you are lucky MP you measure max up to 60:1. Just info.
> This is not to drag down CRT, but its the raw fact.
> 
> I think that also 80:1 as I wrote earlier is way to high for any CRT. A Barco 808 modded 16:1 Barco 909 47:1 So i guess your Marquee will be about 40-50:1 then correct measured how it shall be done.
> If you want to try it on you r Marquee send me a PM, i post you all you need and instruksjons.


Do remember when I did the first ANSI contrast measurement of my BG808s with standard HD8B lenses and no color filtering many years ago. 
It was so bad that i believed i had moved the probe during the test, or did a wrong calculation. think it was in the 15:1 range...

Don't think having mods added cleaning up the signal path and higher badwith etc will do a lot of changes for the ANSI black and white checkerboard measurements. This is more in the optical lens and internal reflection of light part of the projector and in reality the home theater room itself.

To illustrate some of the negative light reflection effect, just try to take a cellphone picture using flash from the center of the projector screen towards the lens of the projectors. Here is one from my CRT room with the reflection of the lens from the Sony G90 and the JVC HD1 (both turned off).









This means that no matter what the the projector does, bright section shown on the projector screen will have more direct lens reflections from a CRT. 


And different camera setting will show more or less black levels and halos around bright objects on the screen, and makes it impossible to tell how the projector actually shows the pictures in real life.


----------



## mp20748

Ok Guys, that's one way of looking at things, but this is what I want you to meditate:


Unlike that image coming of of the lens of that Barco 808, that is probably more or less 40% noise... that same noise is also being seen in the image as LIGHT. That is why the background on those sets was always washed out... 



Now let's look at what I'm doing in the BEAST: 



If you look back at my screenshots, you'll notice that there is no noise or light washing out the background... that means the lens is projecting PURE image on the screen, less light to contaminate the LC chamber and less light to wash out on the screen. Therein is why the backgrounds in my shots are so distinct....I'll go further. A G90 with all of it's light output, about 30% of what's being projected on the screen is NOISE (light). This is what affects the BLACK on the Checker board the most at 100IRE. Quite the difference with the BEAST. It probably projects about 5% noise. That 5% is not enough to make a really big difference in comparison to the CRT projectors you guys are familiar with.


Now lets look at one more thing here,* Flat Bandwidt*h *Response:*

Here is why I set a goal to go after the highest FLAT response possible. Better still, let me give you a bit of history on this and why I set a 100mhz FLAT bandwidth for 1080P resolution. Some years back on one of my visits at Tim Martin's in Arizona, the owner of Reference Imaging had also came out. At that time I was doing Mods for him. He said in one of the conversations that If I was able to improve the Flat Bandwidth, I would also be able to improve the overall image quality, especially the LOW END. So since then there is why I've been mentioning Flat bandwidth. It became a goal and one I had achieved not long ago. But not only was I able to achieve it, I was also able to DOUBLE it. What that means in technical terms of the video chain, is unlike what happens when you have good -3 DB (not flat) standard bandwidth, where there is also a problem of how long the black stays black during a scan or in the chain RISE/FALL perfection. This is when you get into SPEED... because you'll need flat bandwidth to have faster speed. Now with good flat bandwidth, the rise and fall is closer to perfection. A square wave injected into the video chain would look more like an actual square wave on a scope. Or to put it even better... one pixel on pixel off,.. would look like a square wave instead of a distorted Sine Wave. Meaning also when the video chain is seeing black, the scope would show zero or flat during those very fast bandwidth sweeps. Not exactly what happens with -3db bandwidth. 


So my point, is demonstrated and can be seen in my shots, and that is that there is nearly NO noise (light) in the image to wash out and affect the intrascene (ansi) performance and therefore, none to cloud up the LC chamber. And then add the flat bandwidth (SPEED) performance and that is when the image becomes transparent, and clean. When it's done right, things in the image have greater depth and can appear like they are floating or popping off the screen.. 



How do you increase the ANSI on CRT, get rid of the stray noise on the screen and improve the FLAT (speed) bandwidth response..




.


----------



## Dj Dee

I post all you need later tonight.

You also need a ok lux meter 

Here are the patterns
And also a short explanation.

Then meashure in all the squares both black and white. And do the math. This is the correct way

Just to make this easy and to get a indication mausure the 4 in the center and do like this example 60:1, 50:1 50:1 60:1 "average" *220:1*/4 =55:1


----------



## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> How do you increase the ANSI on CRT, get rid of the stray noise on the screen and improve the FLAT (speed) bandwidth response..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


U dont need a high bandwidth response to check the system capabilities of a certain crt for ansi contrast. Just use a low bandwidth scanrate, and u will find that quite easy. If the ansi drops with higher bandwidth scanrates then u can modify to better bandwidth and see if that increases ansi contrats.


----------



## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> U dont need a high bandwidth response to check the system capabilities of a certain crt for ansi contrast. Just use a low bandwidth scanrate, and u will find that quite easy. If the ansi drops with higher bandwidth scanrates then u can modify to better bandwidth and see if that increases ansi contrats.



Correct, but do you know that a CRT projector that is not properly resolving the 1920X1080P 60/72 scan rate will not produce the best Black reference during movie or non test pattern material on a screen?


Barco uses ANSI Contrast as its Contrast rating on their Cinema Projectors, because its the ansi contrast that better reveal the cinematic effect on screen. Good ANSI performance should go beyond number discussions only, and should have a visual way of knowing if its good or bad simple by looking at the movie. The main indicator should be the ability to show depth to field (depth). This of course must be supported by proper Gamma setup, because proper Gamma setup is how the setup gets its POP. 



When I was at the Barco training years ago, where we also spent some time over in the Cinema Projector section, where there were maybe 20 large they call Cinema Projectors setup. Some were on the same light engine and chassis as the ones we trained on, in the commercial/industrial section. They had a large room much like how theu setuo projectors back in the INFOCOMM days. Their demo material was primarily focused on ANSI performance. In other words, they wanted to show how well their Cinema Projectors would produce an Cinematic image. In that room, the projectors could more or less be judged by their ability to produce depth in field. They called it then 2K Cinema. And though some shared the same light engines of the commercial models, I'm sure there was a difference in the light engines. They were all DLP technology. And most were HUGE, but regardless of their ability to do well with depth, they were all true to Digital Technology in not having that fluid CRT look. 



Anyway and rather than always tossing out numbers, try pointing out something that those numbers represent. I didn't know what image depth was until I went to that class, and since Barco made such a big deal out of their Cinema Projectors being different and why, I also set out to make the same thing happen on CRT, and they gave me a lot of insight into it. The stray light they said was also coming out of a CRT LC assembly because of its design, I found out later to be noise generated in the video chain. And of course by lowering that noise it increased the contrast according to what I'm seeing on the screen. 



And DJ Dee, measuring ansi contrast is not as easy as you make it out to be, especially being able to do so from a CRT projector. Stray and Ambient light is the reason. CRT is subject to both, with the stray problem being also projected from the CRT's themselves (noise) and the ambient (room) being near impossible to eliminate. You could better understand this if you saw a Low Light projection room, or the environment they built around planetarium and simulators setups. Where yo have to make sure there is nothing in these flat black surfaced rooms, that had any reflective properties about it. Often times some nitwit would see these rooms as a storage place... 







Here you go:


----------



## Dj Dee

To messhure ansi contrast is the same with Crt and a digital projector. Strey light is a factor also here. Also measuring the room. The point is to do it correct as you can.

You will never get it 100% correct, then you must have a own lab for this.


----------



## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> Correct, but do you know that a CRT projector that is not properly resolving the 1920X1080P 60/72 scan rate will not produce the best Black reference during movie or non test pattern material on a screen?


Of course. And I have always liked to use crt-projectors within their standard capabilities instead of messing with modifications. So for me I would rather use 1080p48 instead of bandwidth hungry higher refresh-rates, but thats just me, and good enough for me.


----------



## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> Of course. And I have always liked to use crt-projectors within their standard capabilities instead of messing with modifications. So for me I would rather use 1080p48 instead of bandwidth hungry higher refresh-rates, but thats just me, and good enough for me.



The higher refresh should make for better ansi performance, much why they use 94 and 104 and higher rates for Immersive, Stereoscopic and 3D analog setups. If I stay with CRT, my next goal would be to put 72hz into the setup. For sure it would increase the depth performance.




DJ, can you point out or even mention at least one virtue of your 'claimed' higher ansi contrast ability. Anything worth mentioning would be helpful. At least it could prove that there's more to your boast than just numbers.


----------



## Dj Dee

Ansi contrast is only measured one way. And only with this pattern, on digital or CRT End of story.
The point here is to get a indication. If you do as told MP you will quick find out that i'm right.
It is nothing to discuss. Am not telling you to do the all 12 measurements just do the 4 or even 2. You see.

Do you have a lux meter? Then do it.

But like i said, you wont like your CRT less when you see that i'm correct or not.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Ansi contrast is only measured one way. And only with this pattern, on digital or CRT End of story.
> The point here is to get a indication. If you do as told MP you will quick find out that i'm right.
> It is nothing to discuss. Am not telling you to do the all 12 measurements just do the 4 or even 2. You see.
> 
> Do you have a lux meter? Then do it.
> 
> But like i said, you wont like your CRT less when you see that i'm correct.





 



Can you spell out or mention what are or would be the benefits of this better ansi, and can you point out in your screenshots what I'm asking?


.


----------



## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> DJ, can you point out or even mention at least one virtue of your 'claimed' higher ansi contrast ability. Anything worth mentioning would be helpful. At least it could prove that there's more to your boast than just numbers.


With higher ansi u get what feel/looks like a better MTF-feeling in the picture. But as u indicate ansi is a rather poor measurements for video-material, for a pattern with only white and black tells little about how it peforms with movie/video-material.

But, Mike if u manage to get over 300:1 with your Marquee, that crt will throw a phenomnal picture and rock like he&%#!!!


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Can you spell out or mention what are or would be the benefits of this better ansi, and can you point out in your screenshots what I'm asking?
> 
> 
> .


Take the measurements and i can explain later.

One hint is that you have higher contrast in bright scenes combined with black. Then it will look better like Per sais a feeling with better debt and maybe also feels sharper.

Personally I will say that ansi contrast have little value in video material, ON/OFF has.
But CRT with high On/OFF have extremely poor intra sene contrast so when you add some light the contrast drops like a stone. 

So better Ansi on CRT wont help much i think.

I don't want to fight with you about this. This you shall know. And this is how CRTs are. If you want to find the numbers do the test or if not agree.
And I end this discussion. 

Back to topic screenshots MP  You getting better and better. The rest we take on PM


----------



## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> With higher ansi u get what feel/looks like a better MTF-feeling in the picture. But as u indicate ansi is a rather poor measurements for video-material, for a pattern with only white and black tells little about how it peforms with movie/video-material.
> 
> But, Mike if u manage to get over 300:1 with your Marquee, that crt will throw a phenomnal picture and rock like he&%#!!!



I agree PJ, but would like to add that I'm sure I'm doing much better than 300:1. When I mentioned previously that I'm able to get full white and a perfect black at the same time, which is difficult on both technologies, and when close to the perfect black, there is a certain gamma required. With my setup that's not the case, the black is just there and more perfect without having to have the precise setting of the low end. This is because the elimination of stray light coming out of the LC assemblies, and as you acknowledge yourself, FLAT bandwidth or best bandwidth performance produces best black level performance. Couple that to an displayed image that does not have the common stray light also coming out of the lenses.


I would say when it comes to the word ANSI for display technology, the same meaning used for CCD's (camera CCD devices) should apply to display technology, and should be also refereed to as dynamic range.



*Dynamic Range*

"Dynamic range refers to intrascene performance (i.e., the ability to quantitatively detect very dim and very bright parts of a single image)."




So in order to detech very dim and very bright parts of an image, you would need to have control of the light in the image and with a perfect low end - Boom!


As we know when any display is properly setup and some of the attributes of that would be image depth, or should be. Whereas with my setup even not being setup properly, it still has incredible image depth capability. That is because of the phenomenal black reference and low stray light on the screen. The low stray light on the screen should be key in good dynamic range, because whatever light that projected on the screen would be a part of the source and not associated with stray light that would or could destroy any dynamic range, because it would illuminate and washout the LINEAR performance of the IRE range. 



And as we already know, Digitals are known to have a higher ANSI Contrast rating than CRT... but be mindful they still have stray light problems, which is not the case at all with my setup, for as what can be seen in some of my shots, there is plenty of DEPTH and I still have not seen one digital screenshot showing depth. And my setup is not calibrated, so it's un-calibrated depth. What should I expect after I calibrate and set that gamma correctly, because I have total light control and perfect black. Which is what makes for good ansi (dynamic range) performance.


The ability to properly measure this is complicated and would need a special condition to pull it off. So rather, I think it could make more sense if we could deal with things based on end and actual results, opposed to subjective numbers. So maybe DJ can post some shots that show image depth and how well the finer things in the backgrounds are being delineated..


----------



## thewolfman

*Jvc dla-z1*

You might want to reconcider that JVC XN9 over the JVC DLA-Z1 that's on sale for 185.000 SEK here in Sweden then you will get that so sought after fade to black only CRT can produce. Laser is the way to go, if digital, and of course to those who have the means to afford it. Here's the link for the only one at that price. I Think it's got your name on it! 

Oh, and before I forget, that will give you the action all lamp-based digitals will not provide… and that is zero IRE inside a lit image at the same time. Where black needs to be black and where not to. Like image provided! 

So, based on experiance so far, no lamp-based digital (JVC x5900) has shown the Deep inky black - SURROUNDING - anything lit in between. Like this image.. wonder why??  

https://i.postimg.cc/7YJ4dz2N/Beat-this-Digitals.jpg

https://www.hembiobutiken.se/produkter/projektorer/d-ila/287080-jvc-dla-z1-demo/


----------



## ask4me2

> "I'm sure I'm doing much better than 300:1"


MP are you actually saying you got an ANSI contrast of 300:1 on your screen from your CRT projector? 
 (Don't know if I shod be scared or just start laughing.  )

Why not do a measurement like Dj Dee suggest and see this for you self? 

OK the ANSI contrast is not a very reliable good measurement to explain what we see in a picture from movie projector, but that measurement tells something about how "clean" the optical part of the projector shows the 0 Ire dark and 100 Ire white together in the checker board patterned test image. 

1 chip DLP projectors with their very simple optical path often have a high ANSI contrast and this is often incorrectly used to tell us how good the DLP is with examples like this 
 
The problem these days is that for a DLP with 1000:1 in on : off contrast the picture looks quite opposite in real life.

3 Chip D-ILA or CRT have more internal reflections and often does not get so high scores when it comes to ANSI contrast. 
For home cinema use, the "fidelity" of the black level and how our eyes response to the picture contrast is often more important, and i think that is why CRT can look so good and 3D like when it is setup properly.



MP said:


> And as we already know, Digitals are known to have a higher ANSI Contrast rating than CRT... but be mindful they still have stray light problems, which is not the case at all with my setup, for as what can be seen in some of my shots, there is plenty of DEPTH and I still have not seen one digital screenshot showing depth. And my setup is not calibrated, so it's un-calibrated depth. What should I expect after I calibrate and set that gamma correctly, because I have total light control and perfect black. Which is what makes for good ansi (dynamic range) performance.


When it comes to DEPTH from CRT screenshots vs digital projectors, i am not sure what you mean. Have you one example of one of your screenshots where this can be seen, and where the CRT depth survives trough the camera and the screen when looking at that picture?



MP said:


> If you look back at my screenshots, you'll notice that there is no noise or light washing out the background... that means the lens is projecting PURE image on the screen, less light to contaminate the LC chamber and less light to wash out on the screen. Therein is why the backgrounds in my shots are so distinct....I'll go further. A G90 with all of it's light output, about 30% of what's being projected on the screen is NOISE (light). This is what affects the BLACK on the Checker board the most at 100IRE. Quite the difference with the BEAST. It probably projects about 5% noise. That 5% is not enough to make a really big difference in comparison to the CRT projectors you guys are familiar with.


The ANSI contrast is the relation between black and white in the test picture, so if a G90 have 30% noise like you say, it will contaminate this relation and have an ANSI like 100/30=3:1 and your Beast with 5% shod have 100/5=20:1... before the optical parts starts to mess it up even more.? this can't be right....


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> You might want to reconcider that JVC XN9 over the JVC DLA-Z1 that's on sale for 185.000 SEK here in Sweden then you will get that so sought after fade to black only CRT can produce. Laser is the way to go, if digital, and of course to those who have the means to afford it. Here's the link for the only one at that price. I Think it's got your name on it!
> 
> Oh, and before I forget, that will give you the action all lamp-based digitals will not provide… and that is zero IRE inside a lit image at the same time. Where black needs to be black and where not to. Like image provided!
> 
> So, based on experiance so far, no lamp-based digital (JVC x5900) has shown the Deep inky black - SURROUNDING - anything lit in between. Like this image.. wonder why??
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/7YJ4dz2N/Beat-this-Digitals.jpg
> 
> https://www.hembiobutiken.se/produkter/projektorer/d-ila/287080-jvc-dla-z1-demo/



Hi Wolfy

I don't think you understand how a picture is built up at all writing this. Also claiming that perfect black is total black crush. Because its not. You are meant to see more. 

1. In your picture you have so much black crush that all shadow details totally disappear. Try to fix that then you will see that your image fall apart bit by bit, and i understand why you have it like this. Your picture look flat and loss of many details. Your tires are gone in the background. Under the car is totally gone in the background, and manny details are gone. Also see the stickers on the car you cant see what it is compared to a digital.

2. Zero IRE have *nothing* to do with film materiel, its no info in picture. Info in picture is where there actually is some info in the picture to show. But cool to see total blackout in a film. I know what i talk about, i have a shutter because i enjoy this so much. After the old CRT days.

3. You can see form my picture with correct adjusted display, that i show the shadow detail. Black is totaly as black as it can be shown on a screen, And camera will not show how your or mine screen lights upp from the car.It will show black as inky black. With longer shutter time you might see the fading of color on your white screen. Any digital will be better on this because of higher figures of measurements. *Where are your shadow detail?
*
4. I personally saw the Z1 and the NX9, and i liked more the film image on the NX9 provided, over the Z1. But that is me.
Yes the laser managed to shut better down to 0 ire. But i have a shutter. And the contrast is higher on the NX9 in total in my home.
That's why i picked the NX9, byt total madness according the price YES.
Wolfs CRT

*Digital correct adjusted to get all details on screen*

*Digital turned down brightness to get blackcrush.*


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> MP are you actually saying you got an ANSI contrast of 300:1 on your screen from your CRT projector?
> (Don't know if I shod be scared or just start laughing.  )
> 
> Why not do a measurement like Dj Dee suggest and see this for you self?
> 
> OK the ANSI contrast is not a very reliable good measurement to explain what we see in a picture from movie projector, but that measurement tells something about how "clean" the optical part of the projector shows the 0 Ire dark and 100 Ire white together in the checker board patterned test image.
> 
> 1 chip DLP projectors with their very simple optical path often have a high ANSI contrast and this is often incorrectly used to tell us how good the DLP is with examples like this
> 
> The problem these days is that for a DLP with 1000:1 in on : off contrast the picture looks quite opposite in real life.
> 
> 3 Chip D-ILA or CRT have more internal reflections and often does not get so high scores when it comes to ANSI contrast.
> For home cinema use, the "fidelity" of the black level and how our eyes response to the picture contrast is often more important, and i think that is why CRT can look so good and 3D like when it is setup properly.
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to DEPTH from CRT screenshots vs digital projectors, i am not sure what you mean. Have you one example of one of your screenshots where this can be seen, and where the CRT depth survives trough the camera and the screen when looking at that picture?
> 
> 
> 
> The ANSI contrast is the relation between black and white in the test picture, so if a G90 have 30% noise like you say, it will contaminate this relation and have an ANSI like 100/30=3:1 and your Beast with 5% shod have 100/5=20:1... before the optical parts starts to mess it up even more.? this can't be right....



It's really kind of entertaining how you guys toss numbers out, but can't associate them to anything image wise..


For instance, If I say my car can go fast, I should be able to demonstrate that it can actually go fast. Or if I state I can bake a German chocolate cake, the least I should be able to do is post a picture of the cake. But when it comes to you guys, and when you're asked to associate your numbers to anything image wise, you seem to go into more detail on the numbers for some reason, but so far, has not once mentioned what it all means on the screen itself.. 



Yes, ansi is the relationship between black and white.. we got that OK. But can you for once tell us what difference there would be if the relationship between the two is phenomenal or even good. What would be the proof or how can we tell when the bulb is lit, rather than consistently telling us how many volts AC it takes to light the bulb.


When I said the Beast will project a perfect black and at the same time a perfect and non clipping 100IRE white. What I'm saying is that I should if able to properly measure things, have great ansi dynamics if using the checkerboard test. And to go further, when I refereed to ansi on my setup, I mentioned something that is well seen in my shots and that is depth and detail in the backgrounds, which both require exceptional low noise and well controlled light in the tighter areas of the image. And since I've also said I could not find a screenshot from a digital that showed these things well. I guess I'm asking you to prove that the rated voltage into a light bulb will actually light it up..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> It's really kind of entertaining how you guys toss numbers out, but can't associate them to anything image wise..
> 
> 
> For instance, If I say my car can go fast, I should be able to demonstrate that it can actually go fast. Or if I state I can bake a German chocolate cake, the least I should be able to do is post a picture of the cake. But when it comes to you guys, and when you're asked to associate your numbers to anything image wise, you seem to go into more detail on the numbers for some reason, but so far, has not once mentioned what it all means on the screen itself..
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, ansi is the relationship between black and white.. we got that OK. But can you for once tell us what difference there would be if the relationship between the two is phenomenal or even good. What would be the proof or how can we tell when the bulb is lit, rather than consistently telling us how many volts AC it takes to light the bulb.
> 
> 
> When I said the Beast will project a perfect black and at the same time a perfect and non clipping 100IRE white. What I'm saying is that I should if able to properly measure things, have great ansi dynamics if using the checkerboard test. And to go further, when I refereed to ansi on my setup, I mentioned something that is well seen in my shots and that is depth and detail in the backgrounds, which both require exceptional low noise and well controlled light in the tighter areas of the image. And since I've also said I could not find a screenshot from a digital that showed these things well. I guess I'm asking you to prove that the rated voltage into a light bulb will actually light it up..


Its also really interesting and entertaining that you just don't measure and get the fact out as we know it
If you want an answer in picture post pictures from Sin City. Here it will be easy to explain to you.


When you call your Marquee the beast i have total understanding of that, because you have gotten it really great, and much greater than a normal Marquee. You also think you have great debt and detail in your picture because you don't have anything to compare it with then a correct adjusted good digital.

Its just to take a look at the Cars picture above.
In this picture side by side you see the benefit of ansi contrast, ON/OFF and intra sene contrast together. Then CRT on the right side.


*Download this, remember to download the original to get it in 1080P/1920x1080 and play it from your best player and use your best camera MP
Then i can explain. Then over at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-c...enshot-war-crt-vs-digital-2015-2016-a-14.html because this is a CRT screenshot thread.
*


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Its also really interesting and entertaining that you just don't measure and get the fact out as we know it
> If you want an answer in picture post pictures from Sin City. Here it will be easy to explain to you.
> 
> 
> When you call your Marquee the beast i have total understanding of that, because you have gotten it really great, and much greater than a normal Marquee. You also think you have great debt and detail in your picture because you don't have anything to compare it with then a correct adjusted good digital.
> 
> Its just to *take a look at the Cars picture above*.



That's not what I would call a good representation of ansi dynamics. Remember when I said when I was at Barco for training, in their Cinema Section they have a bunch of large DLP projectors showing Demo material. And they were trying to show unlike the other manufacturers, why they used ansi contrast instead of contrast ratio in their specs. Their intent was to be able to show on these screens what a CINEMA Projector or image should look like. This had to have been about ten years ago. Funny thing, all of the big DLP projectors had huge 3 (RGB) panel DLP light engines. All but one, it was a single chip (color) wheel DLP that just did not make much since considering our demo was after the one or two week class, where they really made big on why they used 3 panel DLP light engines and how much better they were in these applications over a single chip. Yet the had this HUGE single panel DLP projector, that in our opinion was wiping the floor with this Depth, or Cinematic thing they were pointing out. The three panels had better color and over all looked better, but that single chip had better detail performance. The demo material was more of things like forest and mountings and stuff like that. But it was very well defined overall. I still have some training material on the smaller 3 panel light engines we trained on, because Cliff from oor team serviced the Simulator at GM's Chevy division in Detroit, and they wanted me to also learn on those projectors. They were small in comparison to what was in that room, but large like a G90, yet they had to display the TEXTURE as they would say of the detail inside of the car itself in the car simulator. Not as stable as the Christie Digital Mirage that I serviced and maintained and was rock solid in multi-display setups, but the Barco was the best for that low level, or as Barco would put it, ability to bring out that finer detail. This was critical for some simulators, especially when a pilot was trying to land on a carrier in the dark, and from what I've seen the best simulator setup was at the Chevy engineering section where GM wanting every nuance of detail showing inside that car simulator. Funny thing, they had a guy there from a company that made the simulator software they used. That was his full time job there. He talked about the process of making the software and the many many layers they designed to make up the 3D software that was used for the simulators. Just a few minutes of looking at the various parts of the inside of the car was requiring massive amounts of computer power, because there was so many different layers created to make up the 3D image. 



Anyway and why I said all of that is because that visit to Barco that is where I git to really see background detail in video, and is what inspired me to go after also making it happen.


Barco referred to what they called ANSI as Dynamics and Depth, or the word Cinema. They also demonstrated it on a screen. I went, I saw and by golly, I did the same thing..


----------



## mp20748

You keep posting shots showing facial comparisons up close, which kinda mean you'll not understanding this ANSI thing, or maybe I got it wrong by thinking it has more to do with background detail, depth and the ability to reproduce a more nature image entirely.


ANSI in my opinion is totally irrelevant to facials and closeups. The CARS shots is also senseless because it seems to better suit the on/off contrast. 



The best way to think of ANSI is to use the word DYNAMIC, which brings to mind; range, variances or degrees. I think you're trying to demonstrate Foreground Sharpness.




Now if you can also demonstrate at the same time background sharpness, where you'll be able to clearly make out things in the distant background and they are clear like what's in the foreground, then I think you might be onto something..


----------



## Dj Dee

MP Barco training was almost 15-20 years ago


----------



## Dj Dee

Just a question Mike, do you think that everything in technology have been standing still since you were with Barco training?
If you do, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. 



Anis Contrast is just that pattern, nothing else. And a good indication how good your projector or display manages to show black and white together. That is dynamic.
Then measure in white and black in the same spot, then in all the 12 fields to get the total average Ansi Contrast.

That's why you got two identical patterns just switch and black taken the whites place. So you easy can measure easy without removing your light meter.

What you can combine in film is the intra sene contrast or the simultain contrast. But this is connected together with Ansi Contrast. Here a CRT is very poor.

This shows perfect what happens when you have poor intrascene contrast or the simultain contrast, the dynamic in the picture fall apart. This is nothing to discuss. Its fact and logic.


This shows this perfect, and i can come up with a billion more if you want, but i lay this dead now so you can post your pictures like you love.

I understand that you dont have whats needed to measure this as asked many times, or dont understand and there is no need to learn you the facts now in 2019, when you know everything form the last decade that mostly are outdated, if you just had checked it out with a simple measurement you would just say "I see" "ok"and move on. Your CRT don't get any worse or better if you got the numbers that I pointed out. And you will get the numbers that I pointed out, if not you doing it wrong.

This has noting to do that CRT is bad, just that the technology for today's material is way over the specks for CRT. 

But you prove by your pictures that your CRT does a great job, and that you have a beautiful CRT image maxed out for today's tec. 
Pleace move on and post some pictures, if you want to compare with a digital I gladly take some pictures, but not in here, then you move it to the thread i pointed out. That's also soon 
3 years ago.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> You keep posting shots showing facial comparisons up close, which kinda mean you'll not understanding this ANSI thing, or maybe I got it wrong by thinking it has more to do with background detail, depth and the ability to reproduce a more nature image entirely.
> 
> 
> ANSI in my opinion is totally irrelevant to facials and closeups. The CARS shots is also senseless because it seems to better suit the on/off contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> The best way to think of ANSI is to use the word DYNAMIC, which brings to mind; range, variances or degrees. I think you're trying to demonstrate Foreground Sharpness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if you can also demonstrate at the same time background sharpness, where you'll be able to clearly make out things in the distant background and they are clear like what's in the foreground, then I think you might be onto something..



Easy answer here, I don't think you understand and will not understand, what we talk about here is the ability to show white and black together. 
Forget sharpness, forget details just see White shown and black shown. Use the Lucy picture above. See the lift of dynamics and debt compared. Se the background and see the blacks. See that the image gets sharper without sharpness delivering details because of white and black Dynamics with all parameters put together. 
What happens with detail when you don't manage to show the different black differences or white differences. That's what we talk about here. Everything else we know.


----------



## ask4me2

ANSI contrast is only related to the data collected from the single checkerboard pattern. ANSI > American National Standards Institute have other standards methods for other measurement too, like the ANSI Lumens, so different equipment can produce measurement data that can be more equivalent by comparison.



From Wikipedia said:


> ANSI lumens
> The light output of projectors (including video projectors) is typically measured in lumens. A standardized procedure for testing projectors has been established by the American National Standards Institute, which involves averaging together several measurements taken at different positions.[14] For marketing purposes, the luminous flux of projectors that have been tested according to this procedure may be quoted in "ANSI lumens", to distinguish them from those tested by other methods. ANSI lumen measurements are in general more accurate than the other measurement techniques used in the projector industry.[15] This allows projectors to be more easily compared on the basis of their brightness specifications.
> 
> The method for measuring ANSI lumens is defined in the IT7.215 document which was created in 1992. First the projector is set up to display an image in a room at a temperature of 25 degrees Celsius. The brightness and contrast of the projector are adjusted so that on a full white field, it is possible to distinguish between a 5% screen area block of 95% peak white, and two identically sized 100% and 90% peak white boxes at the center of the white field. The light output is then measured on a full white field at nine specific locations around the screen and averaged. This average is then multiplied by the screen area to give the brightness of the projector in "ANSI lumens".
> 
> Peak lumens
> Peak lumens is a measure of light output normally used with CRT video projectors. The testing uses a test pattern typically at either 10 and 20 percent of the image area as white at the center of the screen, the rest as black. The light output is measured just in this center area. Limitations with CRT video projectors result in them producing greater brightness when just a fraction of the image content is at peak brightness. For example, the Sony VPH-G70Q CRT video projector produces 1200 "peak" lumens but just 200 ANSI lumens.





mp20748 said:


> You keep posting shots showing facial comparisons up close, which kinda mean you'll not understanding this ANSI thing, or maybe I got it wrong by thinking it has more to do with *background detail*, depth and the ability to reproduce a more nature image entirely.
> 
> ANSI in my opinion is totally irrelevant to facials and closeups. The CARS shots is also senseless because it seems to better suit the on/off contrast.
> 
> The best way to think of ANSI is to use the word DYNAMIC, which brings to mind; range, variances or degrees. I think you're trying to demonstrate Foreground Sharpness.
> 
> Now if you can also demonstrate at the same time *background sharpness*, where you'll be able to clearly make out things in the *distant background and they are clear like what's in the foreground*, then I think you might be onto something..


I have some trouble follow your way of thinking when you are talking about foreground and background detail and sharpness when it comes to projectors. A projector usually have a flat "filmplane" and shod only project that to a flat projector screen. It shod only project and resolve whats in the flat 2D source picture, and the projector does not know what is "foreground" focus plane or background in the movie picture. 

You may relate to the camera producing the source material from scenes with different Depth Of Field DOF that makes the one sharp focus plane reach narrow or deeper into the picture due to the camera lens distance to the objects, film plane size, focal length and aperture etc.



It shod not matter if the projector is projecting a source like this 


or a more closeup like this.


Every single part of the projected picture shod have equal focus and sharpness of the pixels or spotsize scanned. 

Think the zoomed Lucy picture DJ Dee posted is a very good example of what the poor ANSI contrast means for CRT, that movie scene have lots of light in it, and the poor ANSI contrast together with the low [email protected] result in a rather washed out face of Mr Morgan Freeman.

Here is an G90 picture of the same scene in the Greatest showman movie.



I posted this source picture also to illustrate that there is some white to black contarmination in movie cenes alsop, so this may explain why many projectors with low ANSI contrast but with good on of contrast may come away with it.


----------



## mp20748

Here is a good read on the subject: https://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-contrast-ratio.htm


And be mindful to pay close attention to this part:


*What can you do?*

*First, be aware that, though it is technically difficult to measure ANSI contrast with precision*,_* it is very easy to see it*._* High ANSI contrast is characterized by* *solid blacks, brilliant whites, rich natural color saturation, well-defined shadow detail,* and a* deep three-dimensionality in the image*. Low ANSI contrast has more anemic black levels, lower color saturation, muddy shadows, and a shallower, more two-dimensional image. When you look at a projector and think, "Wow, that is excellent contrast," it is quite frequently high ANSI contrast you are reacting to, not Full On/Off. 
Second, *when you set up two projectors side by side, it is usually obvious which has the higher contrast without having to measure it. The primary clue is the comparative depth (or perceived three-dimensionality) of the two images. *
Third, until proven otherwise, assume there is NO correlation between Dynamic or Full On/Off on the one hand and ANSI contrast on the other. A very high On/Off rating does not means it also has very high ANSI contrast -- it might, but you don't know. *You can have a projector with a low Full /On Off that has a very high ANSI reading and looks spectacular. Don't be surprised if you put Projector A rated at 50,000:1 up against Projector B at 500,000:1, and discover that Projector A looks much higher in contrast. It happens all the time.* 
*In other words, Dynamic and Full On/Off contrast specs are notoriously misleading. They tell you almost nothing about what the average video image will look like*. If everyone published ANSI specs, that would be enormously helpful, but the risk to the manufacturer is huge simply because the consumer will misunderstand them. Unless manufacturers suddenly take an enormous gamble to publish ANSI contrast specs in the hope consumers will figure them out, *do yourself a favor and ignore the contrast specs you see today. Full On/Off and Dynamic specs say nothing about what the picture looks like, and they are absolutely no way to compare projectors.*


----------



## Per Johnny

Mike and Dj Dee, I think u are talking about different things and both u are defending individual preferences and expericences to much.

A good picture is a good picture.

U measure and calibrate to ensure that u are as close to standards as possible. U measure ansi and full on/off contrast to get an idea of what your display is capable of, this again can help u in deceiding what gamma u should choose for your display, and how u should calibrate gamma in 0-5 ire.

Mike, I think Dj Dee is too negative in what your crt can measure. With proper setup, calibration, bandwidth according to input signal, u should be able to get over 150:1 in ansi-contrast. Anyway, u still have a 'killer-good' crt image.


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> Here you are completely wrong Per J. ((Bandwidth according to input signal, u should be able to get over 150:1 in ansi-contrast.)) Completely wrong....


Yes, only u are correct, and everybody else is wrong.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> Yes, only u are correct, and everybody else is wrong.


Yes in this case , and its not only me trust me, or prove me wrong. This is just like saying the moon is triangle, and you cant prove it.

We spoke about this a long time ago according to Ansi Contrast on your CRTs. And then you said that YOU measured up to 100:1, I said then that that was maybe some high and you even agreed. Then for 1080P *I lay this dead no*. Nothing positive vil come out of this. 

*Only way to find out is to measure end of story. This was tested by Ask4Me2 so I have to erase my thoughts  I stay with my statement Mike will measure between 80:1-120:1 MAX* Would be cool to see if the Mods do any difference done the same way.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Yes in this case , and its not only me trust me, or prove me wrong. This is just like saying the moon is triangle, and you cant prove it.
> 
> We spoke about this a long time ago according to Ansi Contrast on your CRTs. And then you said that YOU measured up to 100:1, I said then that that was maybe some high and you even agreed. recently you now you are up to 150:1, You are son on 300:1 in a week LOL *I lay this dead no*. Nothing positive vil come out of this.
> 
> *Only way to find out is to measure end of story. I stay with my statement Mike will measure between 20:1-70:1 MAX*







Not sure how many times I've said in this same thread how difficult it would be to properly measure, yet DJ still insist it can easily be done. And how many times Ive said the best way to determine Ansi Contrast would be what is revealed on the screen, and of course the same rhetoric over and over and over... 





From the same link I previously posted:



*Taking an Accurate ANSI Contrast Reading*








*As much as we would love to, ProjectorCentral does not take ANSI contrast measurements during reviews. The reason is that an accurate measurement of ANSI contrast requires either a pitch black room, with all walls, carpets, ceilings, clothing, etc., being totally black and non-reflective, or a pitch black tunnel or tent designed specifically for this purpose. Why? Because if the light from the white checkerboard squares reflects off anything in the projection space it will lighten the black squares, which invalidates the contrast reading. The only legitimate ANSI contrast reading, at least one that we would want to publish, is one done by a professional lab equipped specifically to do this type of testing.*


*.
*


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Not sure how many times I've said in this same thread how difficult it would be to properly measure, yet DJ still insist it can easily be done. And how many times Ive said the best way to determine Ansi Contrast would be the what is revealed on the screen, and of course the same rhetoric over and over and over...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the same link I previously posted:
> 
> 
> 
> *Taking an Accurate ANSI Contrast Reading*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *As much as we would love to, ProjectorCentral does not take ANSI contrast measurements during reviews. The reason is that an accurate measurement of ANSI contrast requires either a pitch black room, with all walls, carpets, ceilings, clothing, etc., being totally black and non-reflective, or a pitch black tunnel or tent designed specifically for this purpose. Why? Because if the light from the white checkerboard squares reflects off anything in the projection space it will lighten the black squares, which invalidates the contrast reading. The only legitimate ANSI contrast reading, at least one that we would want to publish, is one done by a professional lab equipped specifically to do this type of testing.*
> 
> 
> *.
> *


It can be easily done, the hard part is to eliminate your room in the process. And like everyone does it today we get a good indication so no worries.

And to get ansi contrast 100% correct a lab test might be the best. And also with this ansi contrast or other measurement you must use a tripod, just 0,5cm different reading distance form your projector give totally wrong measurement. That's why some manages to get 150:1  the only logic explanation. To get a good Ansi contrast measurement on your projector Mike you can just measure white closer to the projector and black more away from your projector. Here just 1 inch will come out with huge benefit on the contrast measured. And i think that many does it this way, but wont admit doing so if they got a high number.

I also tried on CRT to measure all 3 tubes separately with cover on the 2 other not used tubes at the spot where the measurement were in the exact center of the measured square on 909. Did the math then all 3 measurements added them together and took the average. The strange part here, was that the measurement was almost identical as the all together. 47:1. Pressing the CRT less like Per J sais will have a effect on Ansi Contrast for shore. And you might end up around 70-100:1

MinoltaT10-light-meter is a great meter. But bigger room for error then compared to a Klein K10A in many ways. 
I had plans to get this meter, but got a similar ok meter a AEMC Model CA811 light meter for "control" for much less money. 

And give same results. But is some more pressing buttons than the Minolta T10.

Move on, let us see some screenshots. 

Your pictures Mike have become much better recently so keep up the good work.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Move on, let us see some screenshots if you believe you have 300: 150:1 100:1 50:1 on your CRT the pictures wont be any better or worse with screenshots
> 
> Your pictures Mike have become much better recently so keep up the good work.



300, naw.. I believe I'm doing much better than 300, but won't waist trying to verify this, because it's nearly impossible without doing so at the right lab, as the link indicated. 





But again, and since I agree with what's also in the link, I'm able to point out and even capture through a cheap camera the phenomenal results of what's on my screen, and why I estimated above 300:1 Ansi. 



Think about it, I'm seeing incredible depth and three-dimensionality on my screen. You boasting pictures of facials, with one being sharper or cleaner than the other, while I'm also able to display through a cheap camera full image transparency and sharpness evenly distributed throughout the image. You, a few captures from the Lucy BD, showing facials. 



And you want me to measure, for what. I'm already at the mountaintop.. 




Once more:



*What can you do?*

*First, be aware that, though it is technically difficult to measure ANSI contrast with precision*,_* it is very easy to see it*._* High ANSI contrast is characterized by* *solid blacks, brilliant whites, rich natural color saturation, well-defined shadow detail,* and a* deep three-dimensionality in the image*. Low ANSI contrast has more anemic black levels, lower color saturation, muddy shadows, and a shallower, more two-dimensional image. When you look at a projector and think, "Wow, that is excellent contrast," it is quite frequently high ANSI contrast you are reacting to, not Full On/Off. 
Second, *when you set up two projectors side by side, it is usually obvious which has the higher contrast without having to measure it. The primary clue is the comparative depth (or perceived three-dimensionality) of the two images. *
Third, until proven otherwise, assume there is NO correlation between Dynamic or Full On/Off on the one hand and ANSI contrast on the other. A very high On/Off rating does not means it also has very high ANSI contrast -- it might, but you don't know. *You can have a projector with a low Full /On Off that has a very high ANSI reading and looks spectacular. Don't be surprised if you put Projector A rated at 50,000:1 up against Projector B at 500,000:1, and discover that Projector A looks much higher in contrast. It happens all the time.* 
*In other words, Dynamic and Full On/Off contrast specs are notoriously misleading. They tell you almost nothing about what the average video image will look like*. If everyone published ANSI specs, that would be enormously helpful, but the risk to the manufacturer is huge simply because the consumer will misunderstand them. Unless manufacturers suddenly take an enormous gamble to publish ANSI contrast specs in the hope consumers will figure them out, *do yourself a favor and ignore the contrast specs you see today. Full On/Off and Dynamic specs say nothing about what the picture looks like, and they are absolutely no way to compare projectors.*


----------



## Per Johnny

As mentioned by Mike Parker. Correct measurement done by professionals in a lab. This is from 1997 with a unmodfieded projector. With either a lower scanrate or higher bandwidth the number would be greater than 147.


Electrohome 9501 DRAFT -liiANSI COMPLETE SAMPLE SPECIFICATION
According to NAPMIT7227-1996 Draft 5
Revision and Redesignation of ANSI IT7.215-1992
Electrohome 9501LC
Brand
Model
Specification based on measurements of
Electrohome
950 ILC
July 1997
Measured Advertised
Light output Lens
ANSI Lumens 198 (2000 x 1340 format)
1.5:1
260
Correlated color temperature 8979 K (2000 x 1340 format)
8495 K (1280 x 1024 format)
Aspect ratio 3H:2V (2000 x 1340 format)
4H:3V (1280 x 1024 format)
Light output uniformity,
Brightest zone
Dimmest zone
(2000 x 1340 format)
21.5% greater than average
24.1% less than average
*Contrast ratio (4x4 Chessboard) 98 to 1 (2000 x 1340 format)
147 to 1 (1280 x 1024 format)*


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> 300, naw.. I believe I'm doing much better than 300, but won't waist trying to verify this, because it's nearly impossible without doing so at the right lab, as the link indicated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But again, and since I agree with what's also in the link, I'm able to point out and even capture through a cheap camera the phenomenal results of what's on my screen, and why I estimated above 300:1 Ansi.
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it, I'm seeing incredible depth and three-dimensionality on my screen. You boasting pictures of facials, with one being sharper or cleaner than the other, while I'm also able to display through a cheap camera full image transparency and sharpness evenly distributed throughout the image. You, a few captures from the Lucy BD, showing facials.
> 
> 
> 
> And you want me to measure, for what. I'm already at the mountaintop..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once more:
> 
> 
> 
> *What can you do?*
> 
> *First, be aware that, though it is technically difficult to measure ANSI contrast with precision*,_* it is very easy to see it*._* High ANSI contrast is characterized by* *solid blacks, brilliant whites, rich natural color saturation, well-defined shadow detail,* and a* deep three-dimensionality in the image*. Low ANSI contrast has more anemic black levels, lower color saturation, muddy shadows, and a shallower, more two-dimensional image. When you look at a projector and think, "Wow, that is excellent contrast," it is quite frequently high ANSI contrast you are reacting to, not Full On/Off.
> Second, *when you set up two projectors side by side, it is usually obvious which has the higher contrast without having to measure it. The primary clue is the comparative depth (or perceived three-dimensionality) of the two images. *
> Third, until proven otherwise, assume there is NO correlation between Dynamic or Full On/Off on the one hand and ANSI contrast on the other. A very high On/Off rating does not means it also has very high ANSI contrast -- it might, but you don't know. *You can have a projector with a low Full /On Off that has a very high ANSI reading and looks spectacular. Don't be surprised if you put Projector A rated at 50,000:1 up against Projector B at 500,000:1, and discover that Projector A looks much higher in contrast. It happens all the time.*
> *In other words, Dynamic and Full On/Off contrast specs are notoriously misleading. They tell you almost nothing about what the average video image will look like*. If everyone published ANSI specs, that would be enormously helpful, but the risk to the manufacturer is huge simply because the consumer will misunderstand them. Unless manufacturers suddenly take an enormous gamble to publish ANSI contrast specs in the hope consumers will figure them out, *do yourself a favor and ignore the contrast specs you see today. Full On/Off and Dynamic specs say nothing about what the picture looks like, and they are absolutely no way to compare projectors.*


If you believe that you have on your CRT as a good Digital I cant stop you.  I can only give you direction that you are wrong. And the only way to find out is to check for yourselves or get someone that can. But your picture dont get any better or worse like I said before. 

Most important is that you are happy. 

Like you say numbers are only numbers, and you or me don't watch numbers, or patterns for that sake.
That is only for testing. I do calibrating and testing so for me it's important. And like you say its a lot of false statement on what a projector can manage from sales adding and brosjure. This can easy be checked if you know what your doing. I do this often, so I have to say that I know what i'm doing here.

Just like my new JVC NX9 8K e-skift, when the projector is a clean 4K. So just like JVC say BE THE FIRST, but its just a sales gimmick. But the measured different contrast and on off are on my unit on what JVC says and some over. I have done this as accurate can be done with proper equipment and correct surroundings. 

Also cheep entry models claim high on off or ansi Contrast or dynamic contrast. This can easy be checked out if you have good equipment.
And* then* the numbers you get have some value.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> As mentioned by Mike Parker. Correct measurement done by professionals in a lab. This is from 1997 with a unmodfieded projector. With either a lower scanrate or higher bandwidth the number would be greater than 147.
> 
> 
> Electrohome 9501 DRAFT -liiANSI COMPLETE SAMPLE SPECIFICATION
> According to NAPMIT7227-1996 Draft 5
> Revision and Redesignation of ANSI IT7.215-1992
> Electrohome 9501LC
> Brand
> Model
> Specification based on measurements of
> Electrohome
> 950 ILC
> July 1997
> Measured Advertised
> Light output Lens
> ANSI Lumens 198 (2000 x 1340 format)
> 1.5:1
> 260
> Correlated color temperature 8979 K (2000 x 1340 format)
> 8495 K (1280 x 1024 format)
> Aspect ratio 3H:2V (2000 x 1340 format)
> 4H:3V (1280 x 1024 format)
> Light output uniformity,
> Brightest zone
> Dimmest zone
> (2000 x 1340 format)
> 21.5% greater than average
> 24.1% less than average
> *Contrast ratio (4x4 Chessboard) 98 to 1 (2000 x 1340 format)
> 147 to 1 (1280 x 1024 format)*


This is some proof and cant be argued with. And the resolution is 1280 x 1024 with 147:1 I will say impressive, but this wont be the same in today's BD material. 1080P or 4K for that matter. And we don't know how they measured this. Only center? or all the 12 squares. 
Then it will be around what i pointed out. Correct Per J?


----------



## mp20748

Oh I got in from Netflix the latest Blade Runner BD.. loaded with low end and dark scenes where you can really see CRT shine. I was in awe..until it dawned on me that things are not calibrated..


Yet it was still jaw dropping..


I gotta get me an 03 VIM in hopes of being able to tame the wide band (noisy) AD834 it uses to my bandwidth window. I'm presently using high bandwidth Op-amps for me gain (contrast) amp that uses Fet stages for each. This kinda works, but it has tracking problems whee the gain is not consistent. So my next best and easiest solution would be to try an 03 VIM and hope I can tame its noise problem over what I've already been able to make happen. Then I'll be able to calibrate and see what should be a huge difference..


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> This is some proof and cant be argued with. And the resolution is 1280 x 1024 with 147:1 I will say impressive, but this wont be the same in today's BD material. 1080P or 4K for that matter. And we don't know how he measured this. Only center or all the 12 squares.
> Then it will be around what i pointed out. Correct Per J?


This is all squares in lab with pro-euqpiment done by scientists.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> This is all squares in lab with pro-euqpiment done by scientists.


You know or think ? Is it written down how they did it?
But anyway higher that i would assume without personally measuring 1280x1024 resolution on CRT.

I live in the 1920x1080 or 4K in 2019


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> This is some proof and cant be argued with. And the resolution is 1280 x 1024 with 147:1 I will say impressive, but this wont be the same in today's BD material. 1080P or 4K for that matter. And we don't know how they measured this. Only center? or all the 12 squares.
> Then it will be around what i pointed out. Correct Per J?


You have selective memory and mind. I didnt say with 1080p or 4k, I said it was possible under certain conditions.


----------



## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> As mentioned by Mike Parker. Correct measurement done by professionals in a lab. This is from 1997 with a unmodfieded projector. With either a lower scanrate or higher bandwidth the number would be greater than 147.
> 
> 
> Electrohome 9501 DRAFT -liiANSI COMPLETE SAMPLE SPECIFICATION
> According to NAPMIT7227-1996 Draft 5
> Revision and Redesignation of ANSI IT7.215-1992
> Electrohome 9501LC
> Brand
> Model
> Specification based on measurements of
> Electrohome
> 950 ILC
> July 1997
> Measured Advertised
> Light output Lens
> ANSI Lumens 198 (2000 x 1340 format)
> 1.5:1
> 260
> Correlated color temperature 8979 K (2000 x 1340 format)
> 8495 K (1280 x 1024 format)
> Aspect ratio 3H:2V (2000 x 1340 format)
> 4H:3V (1280 x 1024 format)
> Light output uniformity,
> Brightest zone
> Dimmest zone
> (2000 x 1340 format)
> 21.5% greater than average
> 24.1% less than average
> *Contrast ratio (4x4 Chessboard) 98 to 1 (2000 x 1340 format)
> ** 147 to 1 (1280 x 1024 format)*





There you have it DJ. 147:1 unmodified, and proof that it would need to be done in a lab. And of course that's not modified to the remarkable high FLAT bandwidth and incredible low end performance level of the Beast.




If your JVC could grow up, it would inspire to be like the Beast..




.


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> You know or think ? Is it written down how they did it?
> But anyway higher that i would assume without personally measuring 1280x1024 resolution on CRT.


Yes, is well explained. As I said this was DONE BY SCIENTIST IN LAB WITH PRO-EQUIPMENT.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> You have selective memory and mind. I didnt say with 1080p or 4k, I said it was possible under certain conditions.


Ooo no i remember quit well what people say and do its my job 

HERE WE TALK ABOUT 1080P ALSO USED BY MIKE. And lower resolution than 1080P is totally irrelevant. because people think that using higher resolution on CRT make it better. 
But then answer my question to you, what will you be able to get with 1080P like this compairment if you be logic even if you use high bandwidth mod. Won't you say you see this quit easy on pictures posted on the net with mods of bandwidth on CRT.
I remember well what you said to me about this.  And be reasonable and logic, and write what you said to me at first. Also here a reminder what we talk about then the picture below. Also that everyone know that CRT have poor ANSI Contrast. I don't care what it can manage in 1280x1024 on "low res" material it was kind of ok I will say.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> Yes, is well explained. As I said this was DONE BY SCIENTIST IN LAB WITH PRO-EQUIPMENT.


So no documentation of how it was done more than 10 years ago, I rest my case there. Won't hold up in court hehe 
But I guess they did it the way they did do it correct back then.


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> So no documentation of how it was done more than 10 years ago, I rest my case there. Won't hold up in court hehe
> But I guess they did it the way they did do it correct back then.


"Electrohome 9501 DRAFT -lii*ANSI COMPLETE SAMPLE SPECIFICATION
According to NAPMIT7227-1996 Draft 5
Revision and Redesignation of ANSI IT7.215-1992*
Electrohome 9501LC"

*National Information Display Laboratory
at the
Sarnoff Corporation
CN 5300, Princeton, NJ 08543-5300*


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> "Electrohome 9501 DRAFT -lii*ANSI COMPLETE SAMPLE SPECIFICATION
> According to NAPMIT7227-1996 Draft 5
> Revision and Redesignation of ANSI IT7.215-1992*
> Electrohome 9501LC"
> 
> *National Information Display Laboratory
> at the
> Sarnoff Corporation
> CN 5300, Princeton, NJ 08543-5300*


I'm shore its good enough, Wonder what kind of meters did they use back then. , I think also there the tec have moved forwards, then with more accuracy.


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> I'm shore its good enough, Wonder what kind of meters did they use back then. , I think also there the tec have moved forwards, then with more accuracy.


National Information Display Laboratory is the organization that checks and controls display for goverment and NASA and so on. They are located under Princeton University. So u can bet that this is more accurate than what u do, even if this was done long ago.

It was done by and still in pro use:

SpectraScan® Spectroradiometer

PR-740/745 
The PR-740 (spectral range 380 - 780 nm) and PR-745 (spectral range 380 – 1080 nm) SpectraScan spectroradiometers have the two most wanted attributes of any light measuring instrument - superior sensitivity and speed. For the PR-740, the minimum measureable luminance is 0.000005 footlamberts (0.000015 cd/m2). For the pr-745, 0.0000025 footlamberts (0.0000075 cd/m2). These two world-class instruments also introduce a new feature to the SpectraScan line - variable spectral bandwidth. Most self-scanning spectroradiometers feature a single system bandwidth. The Variable Bandwidth option provides three bandwidths, selected from the instrument menu or from a PC using Remote Mode Commands or SpectraWin 2 software. Bandwidth sizes include 2, 4 and 8 nm for the PR-740 or 4, 8 and 14 nm for the PR-745. This option is useful when it is necessary to resolve the spectral profile of narrow band sources with more precision (using a smaller bandwidth) or get more throughput for broadband sources (using a larger bandwidth) without changing instruments or measuring spot size.


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> National Information Display Laboratory is the organization that checks and controls display for goverment and NASA and so on. They are located under Princeton University. So u can bet that this is more accurate than what u do, even if this was done long ago.
> 
> It was done by and still in pro use:
> 
> SpectraScan® Spectroradiometer
> 
> PR-740/745
> The PR-740 (spectral range 380 - 780 nm) and PR-745 (spectral range 380 – 1080 nm) SpectraScan spectroradiometers have the two most wanted attributes of any light measuring instrument - superior sensitivity and speed. For the PR-740, the minimum measurable luminance is 0.000005 foot lamberts (0.000015 cd/m2). For the pr-745, 0.0000025 foot lamberts (0.0000075 cd/m2). These two world-class instruments also introduce a new feature to the SpectraScan line - variable spectral bandwidth. Most self-scanning spectroradiometers feature a single system bandwidth. The Variable Bandwidth option provides three bandwidths, selected from the instrument menu or from a PC using Remote Mode Commands or SpectraWin 2 software. Bandwidth sizes include 2, 4 and 8 nm for the PR-740 or 4, 8 and 14 nm for the PR-745. This option is useful when it is necessary to resolve the spectral profile of narrow band sources with more precision (using a smaller bandwidth) or get more throughput for broadband sources (using a larger bandwidth) without changing instruments or measuring spot size.


I want one of those, guess it still cost more than my house hehe

post 6050??? or are you taking the pansertank method? hehe

Also a lab measurement its total irrelevant as you use the projector in your home not in a lab. And if a digital projector were measured in a lab I will also think that the measurements have gone up quit eacual. If you measure at home you get how it manages to perform in your room.

I can also claim that I see that i have 2500:1 In ANSI Contrast because of the debt and dynamic in my picture at home. But you will say to me that you been drinking, and you know the fact  lol I can document that I have 250:1 and average 12 measurements 248:1 to be accurate. That is in my home,wonder what the lab test would say? 

Also that my Sony VW260 measures 440:1 in ansi and my new JVC 250:1 "sad" but fact, but Sony have always been good on Ansi, JVC good on On Off native with 220-300:1. And i Cant say that the Sony better side by side in bright scenes combined with black. As it should be. But in dark scenes the Sony have native 9000:1 calibrated and my JVC 80000:1 - 108000:1 Native without dynamic iris on screen and that you see crystal clair.

I said 10 years ago on that test, daam its almost 20 years ago. LOL

Waiting for answer on post 6050


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> *I can also claim that I see that i have 2500:1 In ANSI Contrast because of the debt and dynamic in my picture at home*. But you will say to me that you been drinking, and you know the fact  lol I can document that I have 250:1 and average 12 measurements 248:1 to be accurate. That is in my home,wonder what the lab test would say?



Are you really able to get good depth and dynamics on your screen at home?






.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Are you really able to get good depth and dynamics on your screen at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


LOL what do you think hehe  You are funny Mike  +1


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> LOL what do you think hehe  You are funny Mike  +1



Wasn't intended as such, and would really want to know. Or should assume that's not the case with your setup, because you would otherwise post something other than facials..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Wasn't intended as such, and would really want to know. Or should assume that's not the case with your setup, because you would otherwise post something other than facials..


Ok Mike sorry hehe. I assume the otter way around 

The dynamic on the JVC 4K NX9 is totally fantastic. Might have to say some of the best I have ever seen on a projector. Debt is amazing, fantastic black and shadow detail. Super contrast, 

There just something about the picture that makes it fantastic, Popp, clearissy, dynamic and crystal sharp and you don't see any structure then pixel at all. 
I also have a shutter made for total shutdown to black when no info in the picture. So it looks natural down to 0 Ire.

I think you would be amazed even for a Crt guy  The 4K resolution you need to sit close to the screen to really see the difference, then details in objects. And the 
8K eshift is just for sales department to say be the first..

Here some screenshot after more or less just turning it on to the standard JVC settings then on a 4K HDR demo clip. Have a poor camera compared to today's newer, and a cheep kit lens. But looks kind of great anyway. Get 45FL in peak white, so quit good. About 17Fl in standard white 100%
The Debt is enormous. And look stunning. 


Here after a quick calibrating. Then just adjusting the greyscale to my screen. HDR gamma.


----------



## mp20748

No, don't post from DEMO material, it enhanced to better represent. 



Post from a BD.


And post something that shows the depth, and it should also should the image appearing as if popping off the screen..


----------



## mp20748

I don't have LUCY, so I can't come out and play.


I will say though, there is nothing distinct in the backgrounds, that rings depth or dynamics. But that could also be the camera and why it's so hard to judge these shots. I do think her face should have more clarity, or you should be able to make out her skin tone or even the oil (if not makeup) on her skin. 



It looks good, but I'm not seeing any dynamics, either colors or depth related. Look at any of my shots and you should be able to see distinct sharpness on their faces, regardless of where they are in the image. Or maybe I'm being nit-picky and expecting what I get to see in my shots. And I must say, my setup is really not at all properly setup (focus, stig, zones, etc).


I really wish I could fire the Beast up while calibrated.




Now one last thing I'll ask you to do, post a shot showing low end detail to include the ability to display pure black, as you keep saying is not a problem at all for your setup.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I don't have LUCY, so I can't come out and play.
> 
> 
> I will say though, there is nothing distinct in the backgrounds, that rings depth or dynamics. But that could also be the camera and why it's so hard to judge these shots. I do think her face should have more clarity, or you should be able to make out her skin tone or even the oil (if not makeup) on her skin.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks good, but I'm not seeing any dynamics, either colors or depth related. Look at any of my shots and you should be able to see distinct sharpness on their faces, regardless of where they are in the image. Or maybe I'm being nit-picky and expecting what I get to see in my shots. And I must say, my setup is really not at all properly setup (focus, stig, zones, etc).
> 
> 
> I really wish I could fire the Beast up while calibrated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now one last thing I'll ask you to do, post a shot showing low end detail to include the ability to display pure black, as you keep saying is not a problem at all for your setup.


Trust me this is a super film to see what your projector can do. And is a must have film. And not everything is sharp all the time in a movie.
Sitting in the room looking at this you like to say wow. So fantastic for shore. If you had the film and could take the same picture you would see that the debt on this projector is fantastic. 
If you have a old picture you like to see let me know, I'm not a big fan of screenshots anymore, as I know the room for errors, and don't show how you see it on screen, also here just a indication. @ask4me2 have this film and can take a shot from his G90 you will then get a good indication.


----------



## mp20748

I woke the Beast up a few hours ago to see how well the camera would do If I substantially increased the contrast...


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Trust me this is a super film to see what your projector can do. And is a must have film. And not everything is sharp all the time in a movie.
> Sitting in the room looking at this you like to say wow. So fantastic for shore. If you had the film and could take the same picture you would see that the debt on this projector is fantastic.
> If you have a old picture you like to see let me know, I'm not a big fan of screenshots anymore, as I know the room for errors, and don't show how you see it on screen, also here just a indication.
> @ask4me2 have this film and can take a shot from his G90 you will then get a good indication.


Don't think i will even try to post a G90 screenshot like that when it is to be compared to your NX9...

My G90 has no chance of showing the same sharpness and micro details as this 4K JVC projector. Neither can a CRT use the 4K UHD source material that an NX9 is designed for either (the Lucy picture is only BD isn't it??).... I am sure that even a modified Marquee can't follow this JVC for this BD picture and think MP shod get a demo of such a projector correctly calibrated before this goes any futher. ... You also have supplied him with the Lucy source file, and if he have a BD player with a USB input, he can just save the file to a USB stick, connect it to the player, and use the picture display function in the BD player connected to the Beast and take the photo.. 

By the way, checked some ANSI contrast on the G90 with a Spyder5 probe. Unless it's completely wrong and not a good idea to point it toward the projector etc., the G90 got about 100-120:1 in ANSI contrast between the best and worst measurements ...



I did not understand the problem with posting pictures of demo materials. Movies on BD like the 5th element have a lot of enhancement, and the source for MP's pictures above with the spaceship is not a good example of any natural looking scenes from the real world....

There is some mention of screenshots where the picture pops out of the screen. I wold hope MP can point me to these pictures and sources used, because I can not remember to have seen any of these from him in this tread...


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> My G90 has no chance of showing the same sharpness and micro details as this 4K JVC projector



what micro detail are you talking about... considering there is zero detail showing in that Lucy shot, or are you still thinking of that facial shot you and DJ keeps posting that somehow is supposed to represent something Ansi.. 





> Neither can a CRT use the 4K UHD source material that an NX9 is designed for either (the Lucy picture is only BD isn't it??).... I am sure that even a modified Marquee can't follow this JVC for this BD picture and think MP shod get a demo of such a projector correctly calibrated before this goes any futher


The CRT does not need the 4K source, 1080P is fine. And since you've not posted anything rendered using that NX9 that would compel me to think it's superior, I havn't bothered better dialing in the focus or even a need to calibrate. When you can post a shot that is able to show that finer detail that you guys actually believe exist, then maybe I'll feel the need to raise the modified CRT to that level. So far, and all that I've seen is close-ups, and to be honest with you, they can NEVER represent ANSI contrast for it's real virtues. For instance, an entire scene was shot that also shows what shows a full background and all things including the foreground, yet you guys only see the facials for some reason. And I understand, because nothing else in the shots jumps off the screen or waves at you to get your attention.. 







> You also have supplied him with the Lucy source file....


Yes, too many times, because you want me to see the phenomenal ANSI performance of that NX9 seen when looking at Morgan Freeman's face..






> I did not understand the problem with posting pictures of demo materials. Movies on BD like the 5th element have a lot of enhancement, and the source for MP's pictures above with the spaceship is not a good example of any natural looking scenes from the real world


The Spaceship shot is no question CG, but the CRT makes it look real. How would it look using the NX9?







> There is some mention of screenshots where the picture pops out of the screen. I wold hope MP can point me to these pictures and sources used, because I can not remember to have seen any of these from him in this tread...


 If you look into some of the posted shots, you would notice the Gold Trim that goes from the front to the rear in the shots. Notice that it does not change and that it retains it's same detail regardless of being in the background or up close. You're also ale to see the wall in one of the shots and the sharpness on that wall. and there is also one where everything in the room is very discernible. Would the NX9 also make that happen?


also, why are you still posting pictures of the checker board pattern?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> To you Mike, you ask questions about my NX9 and I will answer as truthful as I can be without offending you, and is not the intention just telling you my observations and what I feel is the fact.
> 
> This will be the same on all good digitals compared to any CRT, I guess that Ask4Me2 can confirm that his JVCRS520/JVCX7500 is a CRT kicker in many ways. Not that you have a bad CRT, Its great but this is like comparing two different galaxies when it comes to picture performance and quality. Also easy seen in pictures because the difference in picture quality are so huge. If you want side by side tests im not willing to use that projector for screenshots. That is for film viewing, Then you have to wait until I get my JVC X500 back i can play in the other CRT VS digital thread. No problem
> 
> Mp writes to Ask4Me2:Yes, too many times, because you want me to see the phenomenal ANSI performance of that NX9 seen when looking at Morgan Freeman's face..
> 
> 
> *Answer :This has to do with many factors, not the Ansi Contrast itselves because Ansi performance is just a "perform test" on that certain pattern posted But cant be forgotten together with other factors. But more the intrasene contrast and debt and dynamics. That is so much better Not on the NX9 but the photo taken. If they where side by side it would just look just silly funny. Here the pictures speak for themselves*
> 
> 
> Mp writes :The Spaceship shot is no question CG, but the CRT makes it look real. How would it look using the NX9?
> *Answer It will be even MUCH more real, more detail and more debt and dynamic seen together in a side by side, also photos. Where is the docking plane in your picture where are your debt? Your detail disappear ang look flat compared, you don't have the 3D feeling that all talked about with CRT *
> 
> 
> Mp writes : If you look into some of the posted shots, you would notice the Gold Trim that goes from the front to the rear in the shots. Notice that it does not change and that it retains it's same detail regardless of being in the background or up close. You're also ale to see the wall in one of the shots and the sharpness on that wall. and there is also one where everything in the room is very discernible. Would the NX9 also make that happen?
> 
> *Answer here I think you go blind here Mike, this because you don't have a correct adjusted display to compared your CRT with, If you had you will see that you in all the pictures don't show any detail in most areas, and the picture projected compared will be much better, specially the wall totally flat they are washed out completely by the softness. Compared to a Sony or JVC or other good digital it will just look strange.
> And the Gold Trim that you speak about don't look gold at all.
> 
> *
> also, why are you still posting pictures of the checker board pattern?
> *Answer Ask4Me2 He actually tested this and he went higher than what i thought. Not saying that i don't trust your measurements Ask4Me2, but have a idea that he measure wrong black because he are so close to screen or look like it. Then this probe will measure very unstable in black, so better to take the meter as close as possible to the tubs.
> Now it will be even more fun to see what you can get MP if you do the test, but like you say you wont. *
> 
> Not the intention to be rude here, just trying to answer.



Ok and to your point here. Why don't you and ask4me2 either go to the digital vs crt thread, but by all means stop posting in this thread. The consistent mentioning or trying to justify the use of the checker-board pattern, when we have shown you links and such that confirms what I keep telling you. and that is that YOU CANNOT PROPERLY MEASURE ANSI OUTSIDE Of A LAB or Other Specialized Environment, and you guys insist on keep posting that you are able it it can be done. We already know that it can be done, but the FACTS are is that IT CANNOT BE DONE PROPERLY OUTSIDE OF A Particular environment. In other words, most people would not, and should not except . You went back and forth with PJ on the LAB RESULTS of a Marquee, that you disputed, and did so without ANY sound or scientific evidence. When PJ thoroughly posted compete specs and scientific testing used to support what he posted, and you still deputed it, and did so with nothing but what you had did yourself. You seem to think it's perfectly alright to pull numbers out of your head. Not sure if you understand that's not how things are done in the technical. Yet you brag and boast about the calibration gear you use and things being REC709.


I think at this point enough is enough. And that both of you need to respect that there are people who like or prefer CRT. And until the forum removes all things CRT, you guys needs to stop your war against others owning or having a CRT projector. And your main argument of CRT being inferior to today's digitals and that the only thing CRT has over these same digital's is on/off numbers. Which is not true at all, yet you keep pushing or invading the space of a technology you disagree with, to push an agenda that don't make sense. If I went to any Digital technology thread or forum and did what you two are consistent at doing, I would be out of other and an invader. But then why would I do that, knowing is plain stupid to impose my beliefs on others.


GO WAY... this thread is about CRT. Meaning, it's cool if you're able to RESPECT the technology or be sensitive that it's not right to bash what others own.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> The CRT does not need the 4K source, 1080P is fine. _And since you've not posted anything rendered using that NX9 that would compel me to think it's superior, I haven't bothered better dialing in the focus or even a need to calibrate. _ When you can post a shot that is able to show that finer detail that you guys actually believe exist, then maybe I'll feel the need to raise the modified CRT to that level. So far, and all that I've seen is close-ups, and to be honest with you, they can NEVER represent ANSI contrast for it's real virtues. For instance, an entire scene was shot that also shows what shows a full background and all things including the foreground, yet you guys only see the facials for some reason. And I understand, because nothing else in the shots jumps off the screen or waves at you to get your attention..
> 
> 
> The Spaceship shot is no question CG, but the CRT makes it look real. How would it look using the NX9?


Just tried to answer your questions Mike About my NX9
But I agree that I might was to straight forwards. And not intention to be rude, I have delete my Post as it offended you. Sorry.

I also like CRT, and I respect how it is and what it is. But I also see the benefits and the downsides.The NX9 look fantastic in so far all material I have checked. And have enormous dynamic and debt. Shadow details, Blacks, Including natural sharpness.


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## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Ok and to your point here. Why don't you and ask4me2 either go to the digital vs crt thread, but by all means stop posting in this thread. The consistent mentioning or trying to justify the use of the checker-board pattern, when we have shown you links and such that confirms what I keep telling you. and that is that YOU CANNOT PROPERLY MEASURE ANSI OUTSIDE Of A LAB or Other Specialized Environment, and you guys insist on keep posting that you are able it it can be done. We already know that it can be done, but the FACTS are is that IT CANNOT BE DONE PROPERLY OUTSIDE OF A Particular environment. In other words, most people would not, and should not except . You went back and forth with PJ on the LAB RESULTS of a Marquee, that you disputed, and did so without ANY sound or scientific evidence. When PJ thoroughly posted compete specs and scientific testing used to support what he posted, and you still deputed it, and did so with nothing but what you had did yourself. You seem to think it's perfectly alright to pull numbers out of your head. Not sure if you understand that's not how things are done in the technical. Yet you brag and boast about the calibration gear you use and things being REC709.
> 
> 
> I think at this point enough is enough. And that both of you need to respect that there are people who like or prefer CRT. And until the forum removes all things CRT, you guys needs to stop your war against others owning or having a CRT projector. And your main argument of CRT being inferior to today's digitals and that the only thing CRT has over these same digital's is on/off numbers. Which is not true at all, yet you keep pushing or invading the space of a technology you disagree with, to push an agenda that don't make sense. If I went to any Digital technology thread or forum and did what you two are consistent at doing, I would be out of other and an invader. But then why would I do that, knowing is plain stupid to impose my beliefs on others.
> 
> 
> GO WAY... this thread is about CRT. Meaning, it's cool if you're able to RESPECT the technology or be sensitive that it's not right to bash what others own.


So it is bad to post ANSI test pictures from the G90, and this thread is only for modded Marquees showing pictures from the 5th element then?

What gives you the impression that we don't like CRTs? I my self love the G90, it is the best CRT i have ever owned, but is not blind to all it's short comings either, and love using newer JVC lamp valve projectors too. 

It is true that my ANSI contrast measurement is not a scientific correct measurement with a 100% correct result like the one PJ posted earlier, but I get an indication and a result at around 100-120:1 that was higher than what i had expected. I did not measure all the 16 boxes either, just in the ones where the contrast looked highest. 

Yes this thread is about pictures from CRTs, and I have posted some form my G90 and some movie scenes captured from BD movie to see the differences between the source and how it looks on the screen. I am also convinced that the closer and better the BD cap looks like before and after it is projected on the screen, the better the setup and projector. 

I am sorry the CRT does not do this as well as many of the newer high end projectors with more evolved lampe and laser technologies. 

Here is some pictures from the new impossible mission movie with some scenes that may be hard to get correct on a CRT.









Here is link to some of the BD caps too if others like to try.












By the way MP, what happened with your Lucy BD order from your post of 28.11.2018?

The 5th element movie and some of the other BD you have pictures from starts to be rather old. There has been some "improvements" over the years with BD too, so many of the newer BD movies have got very good pictures too, and can only recommend testing out several of the new ones as well.


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## Dj Dee

Nice CRT shots Ask4Me2.

Also impressed me that you got so high Ansi measurement on you G90, so I had to correct some posts ,If i don't remember wrong G90 had higher Ansi than Barco. But that can also be the ability to tweak correct . Not my table.
Anyway I remember your G90 as quit great when we had it. Think Per did a great Job on tweaking the right stuff on it, maybe to god hehe


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## mp20748

What gets me is all the talk on ANSI, ansi this, ansi that, my JVC ansi is... don't have good ansi... measure your ansi...ansi blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then more discussions on ansi, and then any science or data presented to you on it, you guys shoot it down (DJ vs PJ) and then post a checker board pattern as if it proves your point against solid and verified technical data. 



And when asked about the end results or how good ansi would play out on the screen, you post facial shots..


The specs are irrelevant if you cant produce end results.. 




And after several pages of being beating over the head about ansi, DJ post a shot from his NX9, that shows a picture that looks like it may have been projected from an Electrohome ECP 3000 (30 year old CRT @ 480P). No detail, zero depth, very poor background and and low end performance, yet it has great ansi..


Again, it's hard to sell something that can't prove itself...


Guys if it lacks depth, forgot about the claimed specs. That would be like saying you have a dancing rabbit, but every time you put it on the floor, it falls asleep.




I know and have seen Digital technology that claims good ansi, perform as such. I had mentioned that the most obvious thing to look for is its ability to show depth and background detail. So far, all you guys have been able to prove is nothing concerning ansi, but don;t feel too bad, since leaving the Barco training some years ago, I've not seen a Digital with good depth. I'm not saying they don't exist, only that I've not seen it since. And if you guys had also seen it on your own screen, you would be making a big deal out of it, instead of the consistent postings of a close up of Morgan Freeman's face and checker board patterns. And you have no problem telling people the only way to know you have good ansi, you must first possess the Lucy BD or Cap. Because it is the benchmark required tool for ansi performance..




.


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## ask4me2

Well it is a CRT screenshot war thread, and there is not many avsforum users with CRT left to compete these days (or willing to post).

I don't see the problem of posting projected ansi test patterns with a measurement, what i do not understand is your reluctance to try to do the same to see how your projector is doing and if your 300:1 seems to be a reasonable number. There is no need for a lab or scientific correct measurement, just like taking photos of projected screens is not a good way of judging the projector either. 

My Impossible mission pictures is chosen because of the very bright snow and sky areas is shot with "non-IMAX" digital cameras. These scenes are in 1.9:1 aspect ratio, and some dark spaces, that is where the ansi contrast is starting to be important.

The "Oh, Sorry. I had it in 2D" picture was to try to make a little joke with all the talk about picture popping and depth.

And to point it out, nobody tries to attack you or your CRT projector, (even if this is a "screenshot war") it is only to try to get a little more correct judgement of the picture quality from CRT vs newer technologies, that seems to be a problem in some CRT treads.


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## Dj Dee

I have no problem that you say this about my picture Mike 
"And after several pages of being beating over the head about ansi, DJ post a shot from his NX9, that shows a picture that looks like it may have been projected from an Electrohome ECP 3000 (30 year old CRT @ 480P). No detail, zero depth, very poor background and and low end performance, yet it has great ansi.." 

*Then try it yourselves * Why i picked that picture was not that the picture taken of screen look so great just that "that" scene in the movie look so amazing, and it is so dynamic that the image pop out of your screen. This is a screenshot war but for CRTT and I cant participate because don't have a CRT up and running at this moment. I could, but picked digital because of much better picture in all aspects. But thats me, and seams like almost everyone with CRT in the world have done the same. But like some others that are active or not active on forum still love CRT for what it is. And that's cool.
And when you ask how my NX9 perform, the answer is much better than your Marquee for shore. If you don't believe that that's totally fine with me.


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## Dj Dee

This is very easy, post the series picture of this screencaps here. From Oblivion, use the screencaps so you get the same frame in the film.
This is a perfect film example of to show details and debt. And what the projector manages. Also how the projector defines bright and black together. This will only be a indication, because camera is in between. 
Enjoy


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## mp20748




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## Dj Dee

Look nice MP. liked the last one best don't know why. Have not compared it to how I see it or the Screencap. You are much better now to use the camera more correct, and i'm shore you can be even better.

Would be fun to see the set of pictures from Oblivion. Use that camera you use now.
The one where Tom Cruise look down the hole. That is a tough one..
You don't need the film use the screencaps. Then it will be easy to compare Crt later. 
@ask4me2 can you take a shot of your G90 on this screencaps ? So we can see what the G90 performs here.


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## thewolfman

A++ for your much better job at your screenshots. No vingetting at all but just great images. Keep it up (with that camera) and get it on with even more new style Movies. Love the images.


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## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> A++ for your much better job at your screenshots. No vingetting at all but just great images. Keep it up (with that camera) and get it on with even more new style Movies. Love the images.


Hi Wolfy Who are you quoting? hehe
Hope note the screencaps  They are just to save time looking for the right frame to take a picture of your screen.

Any time soon you bring your beast upp again? 
Really need some more CRTs in here to get a so called Screenshot war running. So far just two . Have all changed to TV or digital?


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## thewolfman

I meant MP screenies look so good now with no vingetting. I would like to set up mine one day too for sure but the apartment needs a good cleaning up with removal of boxes and a large pile of Marquee boards. But I read other pages as well and at page 41 about the new N5/7+NX9 amd really looking forward to see Nigel tell the world about the comparisons between all the those JVC projectors. I might have been some Sonys too, can't remember. 

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...x7-n7-jvc-rs1000-nx5-n5-owners-thread-41.html


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## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I meant MP screenies look so good now with no vingetting. I would like to set up mine one day too for sure but the apartment needs a good cleaning up with removal of boxes and a large pile of Marquee boards. But I read other pages as well and at page 41 about the new N5/7+NX9 amd really looking forward to see Nigel tell the world about the comparisons between all the those JVC projectors. I might have been some Sonys too, can't remember.
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...x7-n7-jvc-rs1000-nx5-n5-owners-thread-41.html


I agree with you on MPs getting much better, you see that clair.

Just to follow on the owners-thread


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## mp20748

I have some new stuff coming soon, but wanted to show a few shots for Dynamics. 



Check out anything black for how well the cheap camera captured it, and trust me when I say that it's unbelievable on the screen itself.


Also look at the "whites" of their eyes, which is a good way to look at white clipping, and pure white anywhere in the shots. Do note that there is zero clipping..


Also, look behind the individuals in the Foreground and note how well defined (non foggy) the walls or anything in the background is showing.


But at the same time, be mindful that these are all raw or totally untouched or enhanced shots. Yet still neither calibrated or properly setup.




And to also answer a question here, no, I'm no longer in the Mod business. And in no way would I be able to offer what is used to make these shots. The boards involved are far from being a finished product, and all of what that would be required to finish and make that happened, I am in no way up to or willing to get involved in. This is just a personal project of mine period.


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## Dj Dee

Colorful great shots Mike. They Look great


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## mp20748

I would not say they are great right now, only when/if I'll be able to solve the gain stage tracking problem. Clean, sharp, etc, but increasing the gain (contrast) the 3 gain circuits don't track together..


I gave some thought to doing another mini board design that would allow a good high bandwidth gain amp to be used, but that's too much like getting back involved with this, when I would only need one board made up, though I may later do that one board to wrap this VIM up. This setup is otherwise not able to be calibrated until that happens.


And add this 9518 Marquee chassis, or maybe to put it better, the VDC version control board has been a problem from day one. Sometimes the grid or menus flake out and I have to do a save to make things come back..


Anyway, they have me on something different and that has greatly improved the hand trembling. But still, soldering a bunch of tiny parts on a 50 year old PC board is not something in my future. So hopefully I'll be able to come up with a quick and easier one time solution. But I'll also be up to running down an problem and exercising my troubleshooting skills. And that brings me to the HDM, which is the real next thing on my agenda. For some reason solving that left side ringing is a must for me, or maybe it'll be that ultimate challenge. Plus, that is the only thing keeping me from breaking down the test bed projector. Once I solve that problem and I will, and soon. That's when I'll pass the finished line..


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## jbsaunders

Gentlemen

I'm gonna pop my head in, even though my profile shows that I'm a newbie, I've been intrigued at what has been done with home theaters for years. I spent over thirty years in the motion picture industry working as a Key Grip. My fingerprints are on some of the pictures that have been posted. Technology drives everything, including cost. And in this day and age cost is everything. Most don't realize that back in the day, Pre digital, that film, undeveloped, cost $1.00 a foot. That's a buck per 16 frames, at 24 frames a second, well you do the math. What I'm trying to get at is most of the best looking shots I've seen have been shot on film. Those days are pretty much over. What MP has been able to reproduce is what we lost in the industry when it went digital. What Mike is referring to when he describes what he is trying to achieve is what film is. These are the tools that the cinematographer of the 20th century used to tell the story, depth of field, contrast and focus. And of course camera movement, can't leave that out cause that's what I did.

And just a personal note, Just a little bummed. After getting beat up with 70 plus hour weeks working on sets, and never having the time to do anything with it, I was given a 9500lc Ultra, back in 2010, when a producer friend turned her entertainment room into a nursery, seems like everyone has moved on from CRT.

Anyway's

Brian


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## jbsaunders

and just think, 3 more post and I'll be able to send PM's


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## Dj Dee

jbsaunders said:


> and just think, 3 more post and I'll be able to send PM's


Nice and welcome 

I have to say also, that CRT on films like Fifth Element look good, and you get the "film like" we knew back in the old days. Or used to. This because of much grain originally and early special effects, in this movie. That needed lower resolution to look good back then. Many like this still even if its grainy and not the wow picture in many of the films today. That mostly are popped up to look superd today. But also its important to get the signature of a film so you get the "film like experience"
So in total you can say that Fifth element dont exede "high resolution" or "visualised as so" 

Also the good thing with CRT here on films like this ,the softness that come in handy.
That blurs out the so called "poor" film technology for that time period in a way. On CRT this material look good, and also hard to except the total different HI RES picture on newer technology on this types of films compared. Also therefore remakes of this film in the later days has been made I think . And they are heavy cleaned to look better in our technology age. Original film will always be the best "film like" But our modern age will might say NOT


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## jbsaunders

To those that might be interested;

Film making is an art form. Performed by craftsmen and lady's too. Many if not most, when they sit in a theater to observe a film, have not a clue how it is achieved. What it took to actually get there, hours upon hours. generally we worked a 14 hour day. and took 3-5 months to shoot a 2 hour movie. Now today, the medium that is used to "make" movies is digital and that technology when it come to movie making is really only a decade or so old, compared to Film witch was around at the turn of the 19th century, is still in its infancy, and has come a long way sense its birth. But the two mediums are as different as CRT's and LED's. When I finally walked away from the industry most projects were shot on ether Panavision or Aries cameras, today I don't think you can even rent a Panaflex unless you need a prop. For me its all about the source. I can say that because I was able to learn from directors of cinematography that were able to use the film medium to tell stories with motion pictures. One tool for instance is light, walk into a dark room and someone strikes a match, I guarantee you are gonna look at that match. Same goes for focus, just ask any second assistant camera man, the one who pulls focus, about how powerful a tool that is. When we look at a picture our eyes immediately start to focus, and what ever "is" in focus is where our eyes land. If every point in a picture is sharp, i.e. a digital image, our eyes will go where they will because everything is sharp. Hence, "the softness that comes in handy" then so much for using the tools, the ones that coerce us to look where the film maker wants. Personally I believe the generation that grew up with personal computers lost out on the story telling of the old timers. Just an opinion, but its mine.

Brian


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## ask4me2

Hi Brian, interesting to read what you have experienced with analog film and the film industry over the years. 

There is one thing you wrote that i find a little peculiar. 



jbsaunders said:


> " If every point in a picture is sharp,* i.e. a digital image*, our eyes will go where they will because everything is sharp."


I fully agree with eye catching telling a story effect you are describing, but all digital cameras are not "fixed focus" "point and shoot" mobile phone cameras with a "microscopic" film plane/sensor area and a lens with no adjustable aperture to play with DOF and make that in focus eye catching effect.

(when MP talks about how his CRT shows the resolution in the background as sharp as the main motive itself, is not that the opposite of what you are talking about here?)

It seems like you think that only analog film cameras can get beautiful sharp motives with an nice and soft background, effects that in the photographing world is called "bokeh" ?
(Bokeh is something you can judge when a shallow depth of field is used in a photo but does not have any bearing on the depth of field itself.)

Have never shot any movies on analog film, so the artistic and fluient focus at 24fps is not that known to me, but actually is quite well known from watching lots of different movies. 

Have used 135 analog film (in lots of different SLR cameras and lenses) back before the digital DSLR become "good enough", and have tried some of these effects using a EOS 5D II DSLR with its revolutionary filming capabilities when it was lauched some years ago. 
These eye catching effects you are mention is made in the optical part of the shooting process, independent of what kind of medium receiving the photons on the film plane in the camera. 

When it comes to this screenshot War thread, every picture posted in is made from digital sources, photographing the CRT picture on the projector screen itself, or taking a digital save from the digital Blu Ray disk (BD cap.) etc. 

The movie source, typically on the Blu-Ray Disk itself may have originally been filmed with an analog film camera when the movie was produced, but if so, the movie will need to be digitally scanned and transferred to a digital format to end up on a BD. These days with modern technology the movies may have started out being shot directly digitally too, but they shod still get all the optically lens effects, these effects you are mentioning, and even all these typical movie effect with a horizontal blue anamorphic lens flare etc. 

I do not think a good CRT or a Digital projector will "know" if the original source of the movie was analog or digital. a projector only work with the information digitally saved to disk or a file that the player feeding the projector can handle.

Analog film had many advantages that Digital cameras slowly start to catch up with these days.

One example is the step less dynamic range saved to film, (that dynamic range may be hard to get a film projector to cope with too (to get the black look black and the bright sunlight look natural (0-10000 nits)) but analog film these days can be scanned and made to 4K HDR and seen on HDR capable equipment. 
One other nice factor when it comes to analog film is a full (Optical) resolution in RGB with no limiting bit depth Luma vs Chroma etc. 
By the way, CRT projectors these days is just as limited to the 1920x1080p 24-60 fps 8bit (256 levels) 4:2:0 REC709 source material as the new Digitals when it comes to playing BD, but some new digital projectors that can play the new 4K disk formats, that means 3840x2160 24-60fps 10bit (1024 levels) 4:2:0 BT2020 source material (maybe scanned from analog film), and makes some additional advantages when it comes to using analog film sources for proper digital cinema viewing. 

When we talked about black level in analog film projectors, i have never seen other than dark gray to white in the big cinemas i have visited, and newer seen movies look as good as with some Sony, Epson, JVC digital projectors or the Barco, Electrohome and Sony CRT projectors i have used over the last 20+ years.

Did a little comparison between a BD cap. and my JVC RS520 and The Sony G90 projector, The CRT picture was a little underexposed, but i think it show some the DOF. and digital vs CRT sharpness and the source material.


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## mp20748

Took a look at the red push, or that red abundance in my last shot groups. Turned out to be oscillation on the red neck board, that was corrected by replacing the op amp preamp with a more bandwidth appropriate op amp, but also replaced the green and blue.

And was also solid proof on how noise can cloud or enhance and make it look like it is source. Simple swapped in the best chips for this and boom, check out the difference. Though I have to add that these last shots were taking with a significant amount of light in the room. And the red aggression is now gone, and I've not touched any controls..


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## Dj Dee

Also the latest pictures look great Mike, and show that you perform well with your CRT. I understand that this is not how you see it in real as camera does things.
That's also why a screenshot war like this, only is a war of taken picture not the projector.

And remember this, always take a picture when you have the best environment settings in your room.


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## mp20748

Trying my cheapo Sony BD


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## mp20748




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## Dj Dee

To use the screencaps as a pointer when taking pictures are always smart. 
You get a total different experience checking and comparing to the source how it is meant to be seen by the film maker. And how your photo of your screen look like compared.

What you show here is how good your CRT shows this image thru your camera captured on your screen.

Also how your camera handels the shown resolution, and understand the projected image on your screen.


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> To use the screencaps as a pointer when taking pictures are always smart.
> You get a total different experience checking and comparing to the source how it is meant to be seen by the film maker. And how your photo of your screen look like compared.
> 
> What you show here is how good your CRT shows this image thru your camera captured on your screen.
> 
> Also how your camera handels the shown resolution, and understand the projected image on your screen.





We're back to this again DJ. Where you are once again comparing a screenshot that involved a $99.00 point and shoot camera, and right when I had switched to my cheapo (low end) BD player. Or could you possibly imagine that there is no way using such things, to include that EVERY image hoster degrades the resolution of the shots. And, for somehow you keep thinking the "how the film maker intended" files are the same as what's on the BD disk, when what's actually on the BD disk has been color enhanced. If it was the contrary, the BD image would look like the Caps files you used to keep posting. And though the filmmaker may have wanted the final product to look like the file. Th people who wanted that final product seen and excepted, wanted it to have pop and be colorful. That explains why the BD does not look like that file. 



Oh, and I forgot to mention, when I was at Barco years ago for training, in their Cinema section, they were showing us Had Drive trays, or how the movies were then being distributed to the Theaters. They said Sony was in control of it all and things had went from the big movie carts to hard drives, that you insert in an secure server, that could also stream video direct. I say all that to say that, that had total control of how and what the movie would look like, yet I've never been in or seen a movie anywhere that looks like those files you keep posting. I did however find out that all of the consumer available material has been color enhanced. I just can't remember the process that its called.


Or better still, why does the BD capture always look different from the file you post, and why can't you post what your BD looks like on the other thread, showing what your projector looks like with projected BD material, because no one has ever posted a scene from a BD disk that has an image that like the single files you post...why not use what the end (BD Disk) product actually looks like, rather than an so-called intended look that never made it to consumer sales or theater..


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## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> Or better still, why does the BD capture always look different from the file you post, and why can't you post what your BD looks like on the other thread, showing what your projector looks like with projected BD material, because no one has ever posted a scene from a BD disk that has an image that like the single files you post...why not use what the end (BD Disk) product actually looks like, rather than an so-called intended look that never made it to consumer sales or theater..


Sadly, Mp, you dont understand this. A screencap is the a BD-disk cap, it is the source. 

If u have 100% correct calibrated projector that shows exactly correct image in all regards, and lets say u manage to take a screenshot that 100% managed to duplicate the image on the projector, then when u compare that to the screencap on the same computerscreen, they would look 100% identical.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> We're back to this again DJ. Where you are once again comparing a screenshot that involved a $99.00 point and shoot camera, and right when I had switched to my cheapo (low end) BD player. Or could you possibly imagine that there is no way using such things, to include that EVERY image hoster degrades the resolution of the shots. And, for somehow you keep thinking the "how the film maker intended" files are the same as what's on the BD disk, when what's actually on the BD disk has been color enhanced. If it was the contrary, the BD image would look like the Caps files you used to keep posting. And though the filmmaker may have wanted the final product to look like the file. Th people who wanted that final product seen and excepted, wanted it to have pop and be colorful. That explains why the BD does not look like that file.
> 
> Oh, and I forgot to mention, when I was at Barco years ago for training, in their Cinema section, they were showing us Had Drive trays, or how the movies were then being distributed to the Theaters. They said Sony was in control of it all and things had went from the big movie carts to hard drives, that you insert in an secure server, that could also stream video direct. I say all that to say that, that had total control of how and what the movie would look like, yet I've never been in or seen a movie anywhere that looks like those files you keep posting. I did however find out that all of the consumer available material has been color enhanced. I just can't remember the process that its called.
> 
> Or better still, why does the BD capture always look different from the file you post, and why can't you post what your BD looks like on the other thread, showing what your projector looks like with projected BD material, because no one has ever posted a scene from a BD disk that has an image that like the single files you post...why not use what the end (BD Disk) product actually looks like, rather than an so-called intended look that never made it to consumer sales or theater..


Here you don't understand what a screencap is Mike. Or that you don't want to understand what a screencap is.

Even a sheep camera will manage to show your projector 100% fine.

Per writes this: If u have 100% correct calibrated projector that shows exactly correct image in all regards, and lets say u manage to take a screenshot that 100% managed to duplicate the image on the projector, then when u compare that to the screencap on the same computer screen, they would look 100% identical.


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## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> Sadly, Mp, you dont understand this. A screencap is the a BD-disk cap, it is the source.
> 
> If u have 100% correct calibrated projector that shows exactly correct image in all regards, and lets say u manage to take a screenshot that 100% managed to duplicate the image on the projector, then when u compare that to the screencap on the same computerscreen, they would look 100% identical.



If a screencap is 100% identical to the BD disk, why they both look different on my screen. I load them both in the player, one USB and the other BD. And according to this it should look the same, it clearly does not.


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Here you don't understand what a screencap is Mike. Or that you don't want to understand what a screencap is.
> 
> *Even a sheep camera will manage to show your projector 100% fine*



....




> Per writes this: If u have 100% correct calibrated projector that shows exactly correct image in all regards, and lets say u manage to take a screenshot that 100% managed to duplicate the image on the projector, then when u compare that to the screencap on the same computer screen, they would look 100% identical.


I'm sorry guys but this is the biggest BS I've read in a long time. There is absolutely NO WAY you would be able to take a cheap camera and capture in it's entirety what I have on my screen and then make it look 100% as to what I have on my screen with both cheap camera and image hosting (manipulation) being in the loop. And that is supposed to be 100% equal to what you simple post from a cap. 





I would advise you to take a walk down Google Lane and look into Post Production Colors, that should explain the process that all studios use to enhance or manipulate colors. And by all means and to the same point, can you show ANY modern DEMO material that has NOT been color enhanced? 



Here check this out, it may help you understand why they enhance the colors during post production: https://vimeo.com/75077726 




BTW, my projector is not 100% calibrated, and you know this, so what was your point in posting the comparison. Or was you of the belief that the cheap camera should have also corrected for the not being 100% calibrated?


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> ....
> 
> 
> I'm sorry guys but this is the biggest BS I've read in a long time. There is absolutely NO WAY you would be able to take a cheap camera and capture in it's entirety what I have on my screen and then make it look 100% as to what I have on my screen with both cheap camera and image hosting (manipulation) being in the loop. And that is supposed to be 100% equal to what you simple post from a cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would advise you to take a walk down Google Lane and look into Post Production Colors, that should explain the process that all studios use to enhance or manipulate colors. And by all means and to the same point, can you show ANY modern DEMO material that has NOT been color enhanced?
> 
> 
> 
> Here check this out, it may help you understand why they enhance the colors during post production: https://vimeo.com/75077726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, my projector is not 100% calibrated, and you know this, so what was your point in posting the comparison. Or was you of the belief that the cheap camera should have also corrected for the not being 100% calibrated?



*You wont understand or don't understand* so totally ok with me, continue with shots instead Mike..
And I know you don't calibrate.


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

OK and after much back and forth and me saying no no no, I'm beginning to have a change of mind on the matter..


It all started on a trip out of town Friday to work on a Marquee 9500 that has my mods in it. A former customer who really convinced me to look at things different. I usually go into trying to convince that it's time to move forward, but this guy stopped me in my tracks when he said he went to Best Buy's Magnolia show room and look at one of their best Digital's. His comments and the way he broke things down, there was nothing I could have said to convince him to move on. He knew what he wanted and knew what to look for on the screen, and after I got his setup all going. Which was an 2003 vintage Marquee 9500L that he got from Tim Martin, THE Marquee that I wish I had on my ceiling. A true Electrohome Marquee, but labelled VDC and was in MINT condition with brand new tubes. I did my usual and went over the entire set with a fine tooth comb and found it to be flawless. And considering, he had an early version of my Mods in it, because I had previously told him I was out of the Mods business and would not do anymore. After our long chats and their gracious hospitality, I did give in and told him I would do a later version of the Mods for him, being a long time customer and someone who really appreciates the Awesomeness of CRT Technology. I must say, having an quite early version of the Mods, that thing looked very good. So it looks like I just might be back on board. Or at least I'm in the Talking on making a similar version of the Mods, that combined with some of what I'm doing, I'm sure a can produce a simple version that would still produce an phenomenal image. 



The thing performed so well, it was easy to tell the difference between a modified Moome card and one that was not.




Let's see what happens..







.


----------



## mp20748

Today, Ive started setting up the TEST BED Projector to tackle that dreaded left edge banding problem. It'll probable take most of the morning and a part of the afternoon to get everything in place the way I would want to look at the horizontal sweep the way I have planned.


I know some have said to just get a video processor and forget about going after such a challenging and giant problem, that seems that no one else has been able to tackle. But my opinion on this is simple, if it was all about the banding, I would somewhat agree. 



But from my perpective, there is another issue that I'm also concerned with and that is I don't want to pass the Digital Video signal through another DSP (digital signal processor) or subject it to more digital processing. My goal with the video chain also applies with the digital chain. And that is to keep things as short and simple as possible. And here is my theory this. Let's look at audio for an example, the more digital processing used in digital recording and/or playback, the sound seems to loose dynamics and the ability to sound natural. One of the main reasons why there's barely any new or for the past 30 or 40 years music in my listening stash. For some reason, the modern overly or multiply processed audio sounds like crap. And why it's hard to find a Surround sound processor that sounds natural when playing analog audio sound tracks. Some do better than others, but I think they serve better just doing movie tracks. So, if I've noticed what happens with audio when it's super digitized, I've also been able to notice what happens when Video is super digitized, and in my opinion, it changes things substantially. So to stay consistent with wanting to keep thing as simple and pure as possible because it don't take much to muck up a signals integrity, I try to stay away from adding more digital signal processing.. 



So with that, I not only want the cleanest video chain/signal, I also want the purest image on the screen. The things I mentioned previously may not have been noticed, but on my setup, it's right in your face. And that is why I have serious need to solve the banding problem, because I also need to compliment what I'll be showing on the screen.


And let me add, some years back when the signal processing was slower, the 60hz refresh would cause jitter and and stiffness when the camera pans. That's not so much the case these past ten years as things have gotten tighter in that regard. I've not noticed any motion problems for the longest, or not to a point that it would become a problem for me.


What I do know is, I am going to tackle this problem, because that's what I do - fix stuff..


----------



## thewolfman

You would be tying the knot on the CRT bag if you solved the ringing issue. The last remaning obstacle to a perfect fluid CRT image we all love so much. But to make matters worse, for you, most use 72 Hz as their refresh rate and not only 60 Hz. So, if you were to solve it it might not be solved at all because you Always use 60 Hz yourself. With a computer though you would get it up higher.


You manged very well with the indiviual beeds on the recent kids in the Jungle at post #6088 . Sharp and crisp and image I always go back to myself (when up and running) to top myself.


----------



## mp20748

thewolfman said:


> You would be tying the knot on the CRT bag if you solved the ringing issue. The last remaning obstacle to a perfect fluid CRT image we all love so much. But to make matters worse, for you, most use 72 Hz as their refresh rate and not only 60 Hz. So, if you were to solve it it might not be solved at all because you Always use 60 Hz yourself. With a computer though you would get it up higher.



Yes, but mainly for mine and maybe some of those who still have these sets and use 60hz.



[quote}You manged very well with the indiviual beeds on the recent kids in the Jungle at post #6088 . Sharp and crisp and image I always go back to myself (when up and running) to top myself.[/quote]




It's much much better on the screen. The cheap camera ($99.00) is almost a bottleneck or hindrance. Good eye!!


----------



## ask4me2

Not sure why there shod not be the same result between using BD cap. or BD directly playing, (I have always got identical results that way) but if the BD and projector setup makes better pictures directly playing from the BD disk, then that is the way to do it.

I do agree with you MP that it will be next to impossible in real life to get a screenshot-photo identical in every way to the BD cap. 

That is if the photo is not calibrated/adjusted in "post production" to get as close in colors and dynamic range etc in direct comparison with the source picture file. 

I think Per Johnny have a good point that in theory, the best projector properly calibrated will recreate the picture on the screen as close as possible to the source (that is what the movie makers want us to see), and if the BD cap. is the source, it shod look like that projected on the screen too....

The digital camera used to photo the screen have its own way of generating the picture out of the 4:2:2 RGGB. bayer sensor, but if we let the color balance etc. be off, what else can we see in CRT screenshots that makes them quite different from the BD cap and digital screens and projectors?

I would sum it down to the lack of true to the BD source picture resolution, where the CRT often looks soft and to "dynamic" recreated in direct comparison to the resolution that often is in the 1920x1080 BD source. 

That is easy to see in the Dj Dee comparison shots, and why i think that is the correct way to judge projector screenshots.

MP what is in "theory" the cause of the left edge banding problem in the Marquee projectors ?

If you manage to correct that one, that wold be nice, even if solving that problem comes 10-15 years to late....


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Not sure why there shod not be the same result between using BD cap. or BD directly playing, (I have always got identical results that way) but if the BD and projector setup makes better pictures directly playing from the BD disk, then that is the way to do it



That's not the case with any of my BD players. The difference is more like the provided demo, where one side is different from the other. But that's not always the case, because I have seen some caps look close to the BD itself. 






> I do agree with you MP that it will be next to impossible in real life to get a screenshot-photo identical in every way to the BD cap





> *That is if the photo is not calibrated/adjusted in "post production" to get as close in colors and dynamic range etc in direct comparison with the source picture file. *
> 
> I think Per Johnny have a good point that in theory, the best projector properly calibrated will recreate the picture on the screen as close as possible to the source (*that is what the movie makers want us to see), and if the BD cap. is the source, it shod look like that projected on the screen too*....


On the subject line "that's what the movie makers want us to see"


My readings (research) have found something very different on this, though it has been a standard comment concerning this. What I have read is the the directors would also get involved in post production, where the final cuttings would most likely be color enhanced, because they want the movie to appear more colorful. And that is what they also do to DEMO material, that is without doubt color enhanced in almost every case. 






> The digital camera used to photo the screen have its own way of generating the picture out of the 4:2:2 RGGB. bayer sensor, but if we let the color balance etc. be off, what else can we see in CRT screenshots that makes them quite different from the BD cap and digital screens and projectors?


Because of my understanding technically what goes on in those single chip and cheap cameras, is why I do not place much hope in anything captured with them being anywhere near accurate. First, you would have to understand the limitations of a single chip camera, when the requirement should at least be a 3 chip system. Which is the case in pro cameras or any camera that could possibly meet the tight specs necessary for this. To include, If these cameras do not or have not been properly White Balance and if the white balance is not precise, forget about the colors being perfect. And considering the Micky Mouse white balance process they do possess, they are still TOYS in comparison to what would be needed to make this happen. Capturing video properly is not as simple as you guys make it out to be.







> I would sum it down to the lack of true to the BD source picture resolution, where the CRT often looks soft and to "dynamic" recreated in direct comparison to the resolution that often is in the 1920x1080 BD source


I'm kinda lost on this one, or are you saying the 1280X720 cap is a true 1920X1080 capture?








> That is easy to see in the Dj Dee comparison shots, and why i think that is the correct way to judge projector screenshots


This is opinion of course and I don't agree.





> MP what is in "theory" the cause of the left edge banding problem in the Marquee projectors ?


That ringing on the left edge is a distortion that is almost always associated with inductance (coils). And in this case would be coming from either the inductors on the HDM, or the yokes themselves. And also be associated from the long wires use from the yokes to the deflection circuits themselves. 






> If you manage to correct that one, that wold be nice, even if solving that problem comes 10-15 years to late....


I feel up to the challenge, and am prepared to make this happen, though there is a good chance it won't happen. But I'm not feeling that...


----------



## mp20748

Changed the camera...


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> I'm kinda lost on this one, or are you saying the 1280X720 cap is a true 1920X1080 capture?


... the BD cap Dj Dee posted is 1920x1080 if saved correctly....

Hmm tried to... I am saying that when showing a 1920x1080 BD cap or playing the BD directly, the CRT projector makes the picture look more soft and blurry than the source shod actually shod bee.

Have read about CRT entusiasts defocus their digital projectors to make it look more like a CRT.... 
They may not be used to how a 1:1 pixel mapped picture actually shod look, and do not like it when it's to sharp and they want the projector to look more CRT like.... 



mp20748 said:


> That ringing on the left edge is a distortion that is almost always associated with inductance (coils). And in this case would be coming from either the inductors on the HDM, or the yokes themselves. And also be associated from the long wires use from the yokes to the deflection circuits themselves.
> 
> I feel up to the challenge, and am prepared to make this happen, though there is a good chance it won't happen. But I'm not feeling that...


Hope you find out the best way of get rid of that ringing. The custom setting to get rid of that with a external scaler is not the best way.....


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Have read about CRT entusiasts defocus their digital projectors to make it look more like a CRT....
> They may not be used to how a 1:1 pixel mapped picture actually shod look, and do not like it when it's to sharp and they want the projector to look more CRT like....



That's' not at all the case here. 






> Hope you find out the best way of get rid of that ringing. The custom setting to get rid of that with a external scaler is not the best way.....



I've always wondered the same thing, but don't know why. Thanks


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Dj Dee

Nice shots Mike, and color full. Might have been the best you have posted, but have not seen the screencaps.

If you don't download the screencaps correct you get different resolution than 1080P, as I repeat 1000 times download the ORIGINAL...Just to press the download the original button. If you don't get it in 1920x1080P then I have done something wrong, a doubt it
Then they will be different. Again done correctly will be the same. 

But if you have the BD you can easy use that.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Nice shots Mike, and color full. Might have been the best you have posted....



What is really amazing is how it looks on the screen. I have a 1 gain screen that looks like an 100" flat screen TV, seriously It barely looks projected it is so dense..







> but have not seen the screencaps..


Not for these, because I have this on BD (Planet Earth)





If you don't download the screencaps correct you get different resolution than 1080P, as I repeat 1000 times download the ORIGINAL...Just to press the download the original button. If you don't get it in 1920x1080P then I have done something wrong, a doubt it
Then they will be different. Again done correctly will be the same.[/QUOTE]


It seems that everyone of those caps that I downloaded got somehow were never a 1920X1080P file. 720 is what I remember with them all. Surely they should not be used for this.





> But if you have the BD you can easy use that.


Well thank you...that means I now have your permission..


----------



## Dj Dee

Yepp Mike you have my permission.  hehe


----------



## Dj Dee

I got inspired yesterday by the (Planet Earth) pictures Pike and watched (Planet Earth II UHD HDR) Wow I got the jungle in my cinema. It felt like I was there  
Everything popped out of the screen. And the sound together with Dolby Atmos just blow me away. Crystal sharp natural images with debt, brilliant color and a black level that just got my jaw to drop down on the floor.

Here I have many hours of real picture enjoyment. Looked at the (Planet Earth BD) also, fantastic, but the UHD HDR was even more realistic and punching.
This will also look stunning in BD on almost any display. 

I will not even be close to show how good this is on a picture of the screen.


----------



## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> I got inspired yesterday by the (Planet Earth) pictures Pike and watched (Planet Earth II UHD HDR) Wow I got the jungle in my cinema. It felt like I was there
> Everything popped out of the screen. And the sound together with Dolby Atmos just blow me away. Crystal sharp natural images with debt, brilliant color and a black level that just got my jaw to drop down on the floor.
> 
> Here I have many hours of real picture enjoyment. Looked at the (Planet Earth BD) also, fantastic, but the UHD HDR was even more realistic and punching.
> This will also look stunning in BD on almost any display.
> 
> I will not even be close to show how good this is on a picture of the screen.



No one will kill you if go after the same nature images as MP have and would love to see those off a UHD too with these particular images! Really I do. I love those MP nature images too - and he knows I do - the bug shot + the pale green leaves shot for instance has he taken years ago too. To be fair, I would love if he posted year older kinds right next to todays images so we can see how far ahead he has come with newly mods. 

However, and the troubling part, is that CRT images are so Close togheter from being slightly perfect (from CRT perspective) and not so top notch, and yet on images like these they come down to being very Close to tell the differance anyway. That's the sad part about CRT screenshots. 

Now, with comparisons with the best CRT can muster against any digital the leap is so much longer that you instantly tell the better sharpness for the digital of course. But they are the exact same he posted many years ago too, and my memory is top notch too, so like to see A/B comaparions for kicks. If he deleted those old once that would be sad at least me I would have loved to see any differance up front here.


----------



## mp20748

Yeah, DJ.. post your Planet Earth shots and let us see what you were talking about.. 



I have the Planet Earth II down-convert to 1080P. I'll give it a try and see if anything is more revealing on what I have at present. But for something down-converted from UHD to 1080P, it kinda sucks. 



And thinking back on it, the image does have a kinda grunge look to it, that makes me think its a victim of too much processing.








.


----------



## Dj Dee

This is a CRT screenshot thread, I post some in the CRT VS digital have a look there. If I have the time later.
Need to work 

But post some of Planet Earth II, that was just totally amazing on my JVC.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> No one will kill you if go after the same nature images as MP have and would love to see those off a UHD too with these particular images! Really I do. I love those MP nature images too - and he knows I do - the bug shot + the pale green leaves shot for instance has he taken years ago too. To be fair, I would love if he posted year older kinds right next to todays images so we can see how far ahead he has come with newly mods.
> 
> However, and the troubling part, is that CRT images are so Close togheter from being slightly perfect (from CRT perspective) and not so top notch, and yet on images like these they come down to being very Close to tell the differance anyway. That's the sad part about CRT screenshots.
> 
> Now, with comparisons with the best CRT can muster against any digital the leap is so much longer that you instantly tell the better sharpness for the digital of course. But they are the exact same he posted many years ago too, and my memory is top notch too, so like to see A/B comaparions for kicks. If he deleted those old once that would be sad at least me I would have loved to see any differance up front here.


A/B comparison with a CRT in real together with this new JVC will just be a total disaster for a CRT. 
If someone today think that it will be even a lightyear close will be very disappointed. 

But its good that 1 - 5 in the world have the faith still  I think the rest stopped many years ago.
Not that I don't like what I see shown on CRT, and not that I don't like the pictures shown by Mike. Just that this new 4K really kicks ass.

And don't worry Mike UHD downconverted to 1080P you won't notice the difference on a CRT


----------



## Dj Dee

Here some comparisons with the screencaps.

You love color and black crush Mike. But they look okey


----------



## mp20748

You missed this one:


----------



## Dj Dee

Did not find it hehe 

I think you managed it quit well, color totally off, but as you say you dont calibrate. This is also why you get some loss of details, when color bleed out, especially in the bird, and the fungus picture, that was almost not recognizable. If this is close to hoe you have it on the screen, a compairment side by side with a newer god digital, also 1080P projector the image on the CRT will look shockingly flat and with little detail, because of MTF and adjustments.

But don't worry Mike, I understand what you mean with the image on your CRT. And there is definitely something that's worth liking. 
And 100% respectable that you keep life in your old beast, and share your great CRT image with us  Because you really have a great CRT.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> ....................... But don't worry Mike, I understand what you mean with the image on your CRT. And there is definitely something that's worth liking. And 100% respectable that you keep life in your old beast, and share your great CRT image with us


Thank you sir... and it is well taking that you did not mention sharpness. But at the same time, try imagining what it would look like when calibrated..








> Because you really have a great CRT



That means a lot to me coming from you..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Thank you sir... and it is well taking that you did not mention sharpness. But at the same time, try imagining what it would look like when calibrated..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That means a lot to me coming from you..


I have seen calibrated CRTs and really like what I see. I also understand what you mean with debt on CRT.
Not that its bad at all on CRT, just that it's better on newer digitals. This is because of technology and limitations. 
But when you have both and can compare you will instant see the limitations. And here important to also know the digital projector.
Wrong settings here will make a digital look bad, and look fake. 

Sharpness is a 2 way thing. One thing is natural "sharpness" Resolution because of MTF, contrast, brightness, intra sene-contrast and more, then the natural resolution sharpness depending on your specifications and lens. The other is added sharpness, this part is difficult because some don't understand that added sharpness don't make the picture better, just making a fake visual sharpness. And more or less destroys the picture. 
This is normally misunderstood by many. Natural sharpness will show the differences in the picture, some times some parts of the picture is not a focus part, and therefore not as natural sharp. With added sharpness you might also get this part sharp. Some like this and that is totally allowed. This is the typical TV sales. Every processing on with dynamic mode and added sharpness to look wow in the shop. But it dont look wow if you know what a picture shall look like.

You have natural CRT sharpness Mike. And really good that you keep away from darbee and added sharpness. Just the natural CRT way to make the image. This make it magic.


----------



## mp20748

Good News / Bad News..


Bad News first: I removed the boards to dial the Spot Size down, and in doing so when I re-installed the Green neck board. That black (VDC) G2 connector broke inside the sleeve. That of course put a nasty burn mark on the Green CRT..


Good News: and though I can still try to show the difference between the changes, as shown in the various shots (below). You'll also get to see why I had been using a larger Spot size instead of the *smaller, more Detail Spot size. *The larger Spot size is necessary for the lower resolution LCP Green CRT, while the Smaller Spot size is more suitable for the higher resolution LUG CRT's (Red/Green)




The set is now in the smaller Spot Size mode:



So here as a guide, look at the shot of the garden or building scene.. note that the finer detail green areas in the shot is blurred or appears slightly out of focus. 



Now look at both of the other two shots that show an abundance of Red and Blue. Note how tight and focused both Red and Blue stands out. also note the increased intensity of the two, and that any green in those same two shots are greatly decreased. 



So because of the benefits of a smaller Spot size into LUG tubes, with the Green tube being LCP, the smaller Spot blurs the Green (LCP) and greatly enhances the LUG tubes (Blue/Red) performance. 



So rather than stepping back the (Red/Blue) performance, I'm thinking I'll leave things as the are (smaller Spot) and work towards getting a replacement Green CRT that would compliment the Red/Blue (LUG) tubes.


----------



## ask4me2

outch.... That was a sad ending for that nice green tube. Think the extra wire connection for the G2 pin on these marquees have spotburned lots of tubes over the years, so you got my sympaty on this.

One thing that i think was a little strange is how high up in the picture you got the main part of that burn. normally the burn will be worst in the center of the tube when G2 does not shut down the energy from the beam when the skanning magnetics stops etc. Do you normally use a rather heawy vertical shift of the picture on the pfosforus in our CRT setup?


Here is one 8" blue tube i got back from one that forgot to put the G2 wire on the correct pin. 

The main damage is in dead center of the phosphorus area.


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Here some comparisons with the screencaps.
> 
> You love color and black crush Mike. But they look okey



Nice job getting the corresponding source files Dj Dee.





In the frog picture, it looks like MP's CRT is sharpening or cutting away the nice bokeh on the diffuse edge of that leaf in the background . It may be a result of that typical black crush CRT often have or the way the camera expose this picture. Things like that is almost impossible to notice if the picture is not compared to it's original source.


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> In the frog picture, it looks like MP's CRT is sharpening or cutting away the nice bokeh on the diffuse edge of that leaf in the background . It may be a result of that typical black crush CRT often have or the way the camera expose this picture



On the previous page you said this:





ask4me2 said:


> I do agree with you MP that it will be next to impossible in real life to get a screenshot-photo identical in every way to the BD cap.
> 
> ....



So again, why are we still comparing caps to a projected CRT image to screen that's captured using a cheap point and shoot camera..




Oh, and considering the request, that was when I asked DJ to post the shots from his setup...why did he post caps instead?




Or do you think I should have done a white balance of the camera first..


----------



## Dj Dee

Why I can tell you Mike.
I am up in the Norwegian mountain skiing.
So not room for the NX9 hehe

And mainly I will not wast the time taking pictures /screenshots of the screen, if not to proove a point.

And If you still believe that a CRT even a super duper duper duper modded one will even be close in what a good correct adjusted digital will show. You come with miss information. But CRT shows in my eyes a fantastic image, spessially if you think when it was made, and for what purpose. That’s why I still keep one.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Why I can tell you Mike.
> I am up in the Norwegian mountain skiing.
> So not room for the NX9 hehe



Well, that's not fair. When someone goes on vacation, they would be giving others a break from dealing with them.. 






> And mainly I will not wast the time taking pictures /screenshots of the screen, if not to proove a point



Now what point could you possibly be trying to prove especially in this case, when this is the second or third time you've posted Caps for comparison. Why when you yourself says the Cap is different from the BD, and the Cap is more accurate...so don't use the BD. At least that is what you've been telling me, because the Cap represents what the director wanted us to see. So my use of the BD source should make that comparison as not being fair, camera, lighting, skills, etc aside. 



And I also indicated from my readings that there is a process before theater, etc, where the source is manipulated. 



For instance, and I'm sure if the academy was to rate a movie that looked like a Cap there would not be a Cinematography Award. Let me say a little more on this. Just for instance, look at the Cap with the frog. Notice that the frog and the leaf are the same color/hue. And look at the pictures of the leaves, which ALL have the same leaf color from the Cap. And do note that there are some leaves in one of those pictures that barely has a color at all. But I must point out to you that's not the case with the leaves in my shots. The green in my shots shows dynamics, where you can even see darker Green leaves and variances, more like what you see realistically in nature. In my frog shot, the frogs green is different from the leaf green. But like I had said, some of the Caps I've seen look much like the BD, while there are those that look like the ones you keep posting. 



So let me put it this way, if when I display on my screen my source from the BD...now before we go further, remember that you gave me permission to use the BD.. Even after me telling you they do not look the same when both are used from my BD player..


So if they don't look the same from my BD player, and if by some chance, the Cap looked better, which one do you think I would be using?


Now going back a few lines or so to what I found in my readings, 



https://www.quora.com/What-does-a-movie-colorist-do


And can I please get you and ask4me2 to stay mindful about that single chip $99.00 camera being also involved on my end shot, meaning you'll be expecting that camera to 100% capture and record the colors as you see them on the screen. Which to me would be the main reason to not have great expectations. If you guys are correct here, than the producers and directors can save a ton of money, they could use cheap single chip cameras that wouldn't need White Balancing or any other means to verify correctness, and they could avoid transporting and the need for such complicated camera gear. and would be able to use anybody to capture the shots, because there's only one button to press..








> And If you still believe that a CRT even a super duper duper duper modded one will even be close in what a good correct adjusted digital will show. You come with miss information. But CRT shows in my eyes a fantastic image, spessially if you think when it was made, and for what purpose. That’s why I still keep one.





I like this: "even a super duper duper duper modded one will even be close in what a good correct adjusted digital will show" But remember, I'm not the one that compares shots, but if I did, I would not use your shot and compare it to a Cap. I think I should use your shot and compare it to mine, which is what I think you should have been doing...not sure why you won't post a comparable shot using your setup. Especially considering it is all perfectly calibrated to include REC709 all the way.


Anyway, I prefer the BD, for the most part, because it is what I'll actually be watching. Next month I should be in a better place to get a replace that green CRT and may even work out the gain control problem. If this all happens, I may be able to come back with a super duper duper duper modded setup.


I'm hoping you'll have a safe trip back from the slopes


----------



## ask4me2

ask4me2 said:


> In the frog picture, it looks like MP's CRT is sharpening or cutting away the nice bokeh on the diffuse edge of that leaf in the background . It may be a result of that typical black crush CRT often have or the way the camera expose this picture





mp20748 said:


> On the previous page you said this:





ask4me2 said:


> I do agree with you MP that it will be next to impossible in real life to get a screenshot-photo identical in every way to the BD cap.


....




mp20748 said:


> So again, why are we still comparing caps to a projected CRT image to screen that's captured using a cheap point and shoot camera..


Good question MP..... I guess that is what we do in a thread like this.... 

We look at each others screenshot pictures, and when you post pictures of your excellent CRT setup, we can check how good the picture you posted is against the source or another projector (thats also when the BD cap. is wery usefull), and we may even be learning something in that process.

Sorurce vs screenshot is also to try to see whats going on in the pictures even if there is many unknown factors from the CRT projector and the creation of the photo itself.

Hope you have a good new green tube to install in the projector after the G2 accident. What exactly happen, did you adjust the asig magnets to get the smaller spot size and the G2 wire/pin some how got disconnected? It is when the projector is shut down the spot-burn is made, is it not, or does it happen at the moment the G2 looses the connection?


----------



## ask4me2

Looks like Greg is following this thread too, but from his screenshots it looks like his Iphone camera is adding lots of sharpening noise (if the pictures is viewed a little bigger than on a Iphone screen), so i like your screenshot better MP 

Not sure why he does not post his pictures in this avsforum thread instead? 

Wold be nice to se two different modded Marquees going "neck and neck"  (phun intended) in a more open CRT thread like this.


----------



## Dj Dee

Always stay on target Mike. And I have to say I really like your CRT shots. 
I also use a normal ok camera. And I have also seen that better camera gives better total photo.
The camera lens are important. 

As I see it and have to say is correct is that a screencap will be the same as the BD disk, if the same version of it.

Ask4me have many correct points. 
Also sad about your green tube Mike. Hope you have a replacement.


----------



## Dj Dee

About a person on another forum. He lives in the US and need to be at a English forum, because of behavior on other forums.
Totally ignore him like the rest of the world does. He proove to be totally off line. And just try to drag you down Mike.


----------



## mp20748

A few more from previous.


----------



## mp20748

And these are when I started using the lesser of my three point and shoot cameras...


----------



## mp20748

And back to my cheapo camera...


----------



## Dj Dee

Don’t use the chipo camera anymore.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Don’t use the chipo camera anymore.



I was waiting to go to the better camera, but the burn got in the way..


----------



## Dj Dee

Do you have more tubes?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Do you have more tubes?



Yes, but not a matching LUG (Panasonics high resolution tube). The green in there is an LCP, which is the standard tubes that came in the Electrohome version of the Marquee, and to later be upgraded to LUG's along with RED and BLUE for the VDC Marquee. The RED and BLUE is stock LUG in my setup. And with my video chain, the mismatch is noticeable.


And because of this tube mismatch problem, that alone is why I didn't get into dialing things in better..


I've have not been able to put any money into the projector for the longest, but that may change very soon. So I'm hoping for next month to fire things back up, but may get a tube sooner if someone has one on hand, and I'll then get back to things. and that's when I'll start using my better camera and get things dialed in. And then I intend to own this thread....oops, that already happened it seems..


Let me put it this way, just say my setup has six gears and it woun't reach it's best speed until it gets into the 6th gear. So if I can state where I believe it is now, I would say I've been running it in 3rd gear. That GREEN CRT has kelp me from going to another gear, and switching to the faster and higher bandwidth changes to the VIM contributed, because that is where the gain problem came from.


You know I was thinking after seeing on the other forum the insults and attacks on my work, and their wanting to see two Marquees dual things out, has got my blood running. You know that every time they had attacked my work, I've made it better..


Let me say a little about my video chain:


The VIM (video input module) you can think of like a Pre Amplifier in audio, because aside from the sync, it's a switch and gain control. But in my case, it is a high bandwidth switch and gain control. When I say high bandwidth, I'm rating the bandwidth using the Flat bandwidth response, which would usually have the VIM capable of more than 800mhz, with a flatness bandwidth of almost 200mhz. And it is a VERY fast video section, and that is why my images seem like there is too much sharpness, when the focus is really not dialed in. The Speed and the Flat bandwidth response would be a first known video chain, as nothing from any of the well known and best CRT projectors was estimated by an engineer to maybe have a 30 to 40 mhz flat response. My goal after a meeting at Tim's with a guy who we were selling mods to who was also an engineer, we came up with having a goal of 100mhz flat bandwidth, but after learning to better natch the stages, I nearly doubled it..


So when asked what makes items or faces in the picture appear to float, depth, the answer is SPEED and flat Bandwidth performance. A clean video chain of course is also very important, but when I get my hands on a matching LUG tubes, that's all going to get better because the LUG tubes are the best for this. 



When you really get the video chain optimized, which is what I've done, HDMI video looks as sharp as what you see with a digital. 



The neck boards stock, has 3 peaking circuits on it. And one is to equalize or match the GI drive to the CRT to the Cathode drive from the two separate power amplifiers that drive the two elements in the tube itself. That is the only one I have in the video chain, everything else is removed. And the only one that stays, the 2.2 ohm resistor (stock) I'm using a 22 ohm in it's place, meaning a am very slightly adding peaking. That's because I've redesigned the boards to be 200mhz specific, and they will still do well over 200mhz. The stock neck boards has peaking after the first stage input and has the G1 peaking I just spoke of and it also have peaking near the cathode as to match the two. I'm only using very slight peaking on the G1 grid in the tube, none on the cathode and none no were else in the video chain. This of course makes for a perfect compliment for the VIM. 



On stock neck boards, when you increase the contrast, the spot or things bloom the more you cross a certain gain (50) threshold. That is not the case at all with the Beast.. And that is why my screen looks like you're either watching a very large CRT monitor or a very large flat screen TV. 





Be mindful when you rate a CRT projector, to do so based on it's ability to full resolve (no sharpening/enhancements), depth and the ability to make out finer detail in the backgrounds (True 1080P capable). And it should be able to produce a sharp image at higher contrast levels.




There's a lot I can't talk about that will come out later because I have to allow someone else to deal with things right now. But you guys would not believe what certain people have been doing..


----------



## ask4me2

Hi MP, there is some of your pictures with you say is taken with different cameras I am a little confused about in the series of pictures you posted today.


All pictures with that vertical line is from the same camera, and not something added when you use ImageShark or somthing?


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Hi MP, there is some of your pictures with you say is taken with different cameras I am a little confused about in the series of pictures you posted today.
> 
> 
> All pictures with that vertical line is from the same camera, and not something added when you use ImageShark or somthing?



I'm not sure what camera was used or what those lines are there.


----------



## mp20748

Here is another not using the cheapo camera..



These are using my newly to me Olympus camera. Little bugga is what I'm thinking to call it...


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> I'm not sure what camera was used or what those lines are there.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/2bNFN8.jpg

from https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-crt-projectors/900831-screenshot-war-205.html#post57578600

Same vertical line is in these photos too, but when I downloading a file form that location, it looks like the exif is strippe from the file, and the file have low resolutin compared to the BD source you are using. 



> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/dI3fjf.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/bKxlFp.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/uW6w8Z.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/jSGFM4.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/lCvf0h.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/RML3kG.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/sARw33.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/GhPtcd.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/SRNxfc.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/n6bnxc.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/lcKxfw.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/wVIAVz.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/2jiPQX.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/IH8bcF.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/nIMeua.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/j7IlHY.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/JG6XLB.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/bQTJ3O.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/mHiNNa.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/GwukWG.jpg


What image resolution is the picture files you upload to imageshark ?

The pictures you sendt to postimage have a higher quality and resolution and the exif information about the camera used etc is still available.


----------



## mp20748

Good, I thought the postimage shots were better as well, and that's why I stopped using image shack


Resolution and such, I have no idea..


----------



## Dj Dee

Mike you will never get a CRT to be as natural sharp as a digital. This is because of the technology. Here the lenses are the stopping point. And you talk about 1080P

But you get it sharp enough. 😉


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Mike you will never get a CRT to be as natural sharp as a digital. This is because of the technology. Here the lenses are the stopping point. And you talk about 1080P
> 
> But you get it sharp enough. 😉



True, but my shots was very close to that Caps you posted in comparison. And as you said, there is no sharpening or manipulation, Darbee, etc with the shots. because they are pure and natural from the source. Now after I get a chance to really dial things in, that's going to change even for the better, but never like you say as a digital...and I'm good with that..


----------



## plain fan

Mike, the latest round of pictures are amazing, I was about to recommend the same, to quit using the cheap camera!


----------



## ask4me2

Here is some new screenshots from the G90. There is some stuck camera pixels, shod have turned on the noice reduction for longer shutter speeds in the camera...


----------



## Dj Dee

Cool shots Ask4me2. 

The G90 is not that bad. Also good details.
I could have kept it hehe


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Cool shots Ask4me2.
> 
> The G90 is not that bad. Also good details.
> I could have kept it hehe


By adding the BD caps, i think it tells a little more about what details we get or do not see in these pictures. 

Have just seen some movies on the G90 too, and when doing that, I do not realy feel that the pictures lack any details and it got the 3D CRT feeling to it too.
Switching back to the RS520, gives more of that the BD caps. resolution feeling, and is a more color correct and thrue to the source feeling....


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> By adding the BD caps, i think it tells a little more about what details we get or do not see in these pictures.
> 
> Have just seen some movies on the G90 too, and when doing that, I do not realy feel that the pictures lack any details and it got the 3D CRT feeling to it too.
> Switching back to the RS520, gives more of that the BD caps. resolution feeling, and is a more color correct and thrue to the source feeling....


That is true, you have some of the best in the 2 worlds. When you have that, you see the diffenses, not guessing. We know what CRT can perform, and cool that some have the room for both still.
I envy you. Need a bigger house hehe


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Here is some new screenshots from the G90. There is some stuck camera pixels, shod have turned on the noice reduction for longer shutter speeds in the camera...



I thought I would add a previously posted shot of mine of the same scene:


mp20748 said:


>


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

Oops, I forgot to mention that I had swapped in another set of neck boards for those last shots. I saw a post on another forum where someone as always slammed my image, so I decided to go from 3 gear to 4.. 



These are my best boards, and I'm still not using my best camera. I'll save that for after I get the tube and all things dialed in.




Oh and on these boards, they have been mentioned before, or a unique feature they have has been previously mentioned, maybe a year ago that I've implemented into my project boards also. That is that they are balanced, or calibrated. Meaning their original mirror design of two power amplifier sections, with one driving the Cathode and the other driving G1 has been challenged. What I've done because of the higher frequencies or bandwidth they amplify, is made them where they can be adjusted for a more precise mirrored image into the tube itself. I had to also come up with a way to look at this, that of course requires a scope, and a test pattern on the generator. When calibrated correctly, the background (and foreground) become more prominent. Really makes for things like leaves and brush that sometime appear blurred, now is less blurred.


So even with good depth, you can still have that mushed background and bluriness especially with grass and leaves and stuff like that. So this set affords a significant improvement, regardless of the material.


----------



## mp20748

I took two shots from a new BD I got yesterday at Walmart ($5.00), they are kinda washed out because of the light in the room...


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I thought I would add a previously posted shot of mine of the same scene:


Your picture Mike look some more sharp, but also have much noize. This is the camera.
I have to say that here it looks like camera combined with extreme amount of to much color also have a effect.

Ask4mes picture are more correct to the source, because of more correct calibration up to REC709

But your picture look "sharper" in the center.


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Your picture Mike look some more sharp, but also have much noize. This is the camera.
> I have to say that here it looks like camera combined with extreme amount of to much color also have a effect.
> 
> Ask4mes picture are more correct to the source.
> 
> But your picture look "sharper"


That was a lot of noise and up sharpening...

Hi, i have the Raw file for that scene, and can add some up sharpening and do a pick a new white balance etc. Then it suddenly looks like this.



VS MP's 



VS Source


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> That was a lot of noise and up sharpening...
> 
> Hi, i have the Raw file for that scene, and can add some up sharpening and do a pick a new white balance etc. Then it looks like this.



That's interesting and I like how you seem to always try an prove a senseless point, but why? Plus what you're trying to illustrate does not apply.


Look at things this way. It's well known that my setup does well with finer detail, much like it's well known by now that I don't sharpening... how many times has DJ stressed that fact. To include, it's also well known that a stock G90 or any of them are not good at good finer detail, and that can be supported by their known bandwidth.


Or put it this way, shouldn't a high bandwidth setup produce a sharper image, and if compared to a non high bandwidth projector, shouldn't the higher bandwidth one that it is already well known it does better with detail, produce a better detail image... I'm trying to accomplish two things, one that you should stop waiting time to make sense points and two, trust in what DJ has been saying. And that is that I don't add sharpening and don't need to. I hope this helps..


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> That's interesting and I like how you seem to always try an prove a senseless, but why?
> 
> 
> Look at things this way. It's well known that my setup does well with finer detail, much like it's well known by now that I don't sharpening... how many times has DJ stressed that fact. To include, it's also well known that a stock G90 or any of them are not good at good finer detail, and that can be supported by their known bandwidth.
> 
> 
> Or put it this way, shouldn't a high bandwidth setup produce a sharper image, and if compared to a non high bandwidth projector, shouldn't the higher bandwidth one that it is already well known it does better with detail, produce a better detail image... I'm trying to accomplish two things, one that you should stop waiting time to make sense points and two, trust in what DJ has been saying. And that is that I don't add sharpening and don't need to. I hope this helps..


Why do you post pictures with lots of over sharpening and added noise in comparison to mine pictures in a screenshot war then, and why do you talk about sharp bacground with gras etc, when the source actually does not have a sharp background like in this green frog picture.

Mine


MP


Source


----------



## Dj Dee

One thing for shore Mikes camera add much here. Can be the sharpening in the camera that does this. 
I know that Mike *don't* use any form of processing in this videochain or added sharpness, here the camera adds something. Would be fun if you Mike picked another camera for this shot. 
This also prove even more that comparing pictures is just bull. Because camera can add much **** in the picture not shown on screen.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> *One thing for shore Mikes camera add much here*. Can be the sharpening in the camera that does this.
> I know that Mike *don't* use any form of processing in this videochain or added sharpness, here the camera adds something. Would be fun if you Mike picked another camera for this shot.
> *This also prove even more that comparing pictures is just bull*. Because* camera can add much **** in the picture not shown on screen*.



I rest my case!


I agree, I should be using a better camera though.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Why do you post pictures with lots of over sharpening and added noise in comparison to mine pictures in a screenshot war then, and why do you talk about sharp bacground with gras etc, when the source actually does not have a sharp background like in this green frog picture.
> 
> Mine
> 
> 
> MP
> 
> 
> Source



I agree that Mikes frog, mush have been in a chain reaction nuke something. He lights up green hehe 

But look cool also


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> That's interesting and I like how you seem to always try an prove a senseless point, but why? Plus what you're trying to illustrate does not apply.


Sensless point?

To be honest Mike, what we do in this thread with all the unknown picture creating and viewing factors is quite meaningless to begin with....

That you is using this thread to talk about all your fantastic mods is maybe a little off too? Having read in other forums about all the troubles that these MP mods have caused over the years for many of your paying customers, well i am not so sure how wise it it to go there.... 

You still write about modding a CRT in 2019, spot burning tubes, switch modded neckboard and not getting rid of left side ringing etc, when there is 4K sources and mutch better digital projectors around.
It all starts to remind more of someone beating a dead horse to make it run faster.

I do not know how much you know or do not know about photographing, sharpening, lens and DOF etc. when it comes to taking screenshots or watching movies, but i have a hard time understanding the way you talk about background sharpness etc and posting pictures using different cameras when some of them automatically add sharpness, and you use them to show how clean your CRT projector shows the picture on the screen???

It does it so clean that it quite remarkably enough removes the much of the cinema lens bokeh in the frogs background for example.... 
If pointing out some of these things is senseless point to you, then i do not know what your agenda for recreating the source material and modding projector actually is good for?



mp20748 said:


> Look at things this way. It's well known that my setup does well with finer detail, much like it's well known by now that I don't sharpening... how many times has DJ stressed that fact. To include, it's also well known that a stock G90 or any of them are not good at good finer detail, and that can be supported by their known bandwidth.


This is a screenshot thread, and when your camera adds sharpening noise in the pictures like Dj Dee also is pointed out, then you do sharpening even if it's not what the projector does on the screen in real life.
Have not seen your CRT setup in real life, only trough your different quality pictures and many cameras and different mods, so to me it is not that well known how your setup do finer details at all. 

Ok look at this in another way, what is the point of high bandwidth modding the "1990" Marquee CRT from the input to the neck boards, if the tubes and the optical parts only have a fraction of the needed MTF to resolve the 1080p BD source? How can you be sure that it can do that so much better than a stock G90 is able to show it with all its internal low bandwidth stages, have you done a side by side test for example? 

The left side of the picture in my G90 have no ringing like yours at 1080p @60hz.....
How clean is actually a picture with that amount of ringing, some of your pictures shows us? 



mp20748 said:


> Or put it this way, shouldn't a high bandwidth setup produce a sharper image, and if compared to a non high bandwidth projector, shouldn't the higher bandwidth one that it is already well known it does better with detail, produce a better detail image... I'm trying to accomplish two things, one that you should stop waiting time to make sense points and two, trust in what DJ has been saying. And that is that I don't add sharpening and don't need to. I hope this helps..


Yes a high bandwidth setup shod probably produce a sharper image, if that is the only bottle neck in the series of components that is used to create the picture on the screen..... A chain is not stronger than its weakest link...

That you choose to still post pictures with a green spot-burned tube, and talking about the fantastic MP modded neck-borard used in these shots, tells me something about your agenda, but not sure why anyone that is after the best projector and picture experience watching movies etc, actually will do that...


----------



## Dj Dee

Posted a comparison at this forum in the thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-cr...l#post57586986

Wonder what you guys say about it. Then the pictures...


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Sensless point?
> 
> To be honest Mike, what we do in this thread with all the unknown picture creating and viewing factors is quite meaningless to begin with....



So why do you bother... 









> That you is using this thread to talk about all your fantastic mods is maybe a little off too? Having read in other forums about all the troubles that these MP mods *have caused over the years for many of your paying customers*, well i am not so sure how wise it it to go there....


Yes, going back nearly 20 years I would say, yet my paying customers were always taking care of at some point. 







> You still write about modding a CRT in 2019, spot burning tubes, switch modded neckboard and not getting rid of left side ringing etc, *when there is 4K sources and mutch better digital projectors around*. It all starts to remind more of someone beating a dead horse to make it run faster


Absolutely and the answer is simple, It's all been posted in the *CRT Projector Forum*, where your goal is to convince that "...there is 4K sources and mutch better digital projectors around" -- So with that, which one of us is out of place. The one that post about CRT matters in the CRT Projector thread, or the guy that's bent on pushing digital projectors on those who has problems with their CRT projectors. Or can you accept that some people prefer CRT projectors, and since they post here and not on the digital forums, you think they should be allowed to freely visit this forum without the constant proselytizing to go digital.







> I do not know how much you know or do not know about photographing, sharpening, lens and DOF etc. when it comes to taking screenshots or watching movies, but i have a hard time understanding the way you talk about background sharpness etc and posting pictures using different cameras when some of them automatically add sharpness, and you use them to show how clean your CRT projector shows the picture on the screen???


You are the one that believes these cameras can capture things on a scientific level, or is able to reproduce properly what's on the screen. Ive said it a thousand or more times, that is just plain stupid to think these little cameras could possibly be worth more in these situations, beyond just an idea of what it captured.


And concerning the noise... that's what cheap cameras create during their processing. Cheap optics, small camera chips, etc means not so perfect results. 






> It does it so clean that it quite remarkably enough removes the much of the cinema lens bokeh in the frogs background for example....
> If pointing out some of these things is senseless point to you, then i do not know what your agenda for recreating the source material and modding projector actually is good for?


You the one that keeps posting comparison shots of the frogs, something I find to be a notch above a waste of time. In no way would you be able to make any real usable sense out of pointing out that one looks better than the other. Much like the ansi discussions, where the proper way of measuring, requires a strict environment, yet you still believe it's easy to do. And to be honest, it's not important at all to me, because I look for end results. Those numbers mean nothing if the claimed better number cannot be supported by what is visible on the screen.





> This is a screenshot thread, and when your camera adds sharpening noise in the pictures like Dj Dee also is pointed out, then you do sharpening even if it's not what the projector does on the screen in real life


First, you're taking this out of context. This is a CRT Projector Screenshot Forum. And to your point, the camera for sure is going to muck up the image, and because I know that I don't get into camera noise as if we're using $20,000 industrial cameras. I see a lot of things the cameras muck up, with sharpening being only one of them







> Have not seen your CRT setup in real life, only trough your different quality pictures and many cameras and different mods, so to me it is not that well known how your setup do finer details at all


Well, DJ has mentioned it more than once. Do you trust his opinion? 








> Ok look at this in another way, what is the point of high bandwidth modding the "1990" Marquee CRT from the input to the neck boards, if the tubes and the optical parts only have a fraction of the needed MTF to resolve the 1080p BD source?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> That's not true at all, and I'm not sure why you keep pushing the limitations, because of what you have seen with your G90 or other CRT projector. I wish you could understand the virtues of proper bandwidth and a very fast video chain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you be sure that it can do that so much better than a stock G90 is able to show it with all its internal low bandwidth stages, have you done a side by side test for example
> 
> 
> 
> I think I've already proven my setup and be sharper than a G90. And since I have a G90 here that's working, I can also speak from personal and technical experience with it, that it is neither sharper or can get brighter than what's on my ceiling. And though in my very low noise video chain, and there's nothing to discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The left side of the picture in my G90 have no ringing like yours at 1080p @60hz.....
> How clean is actually a picture with that amount of ringing, some of your pictures shows us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Woo hoo, be thankful your G90 is perfect...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes a high bandwidth setup shod probably produce a sharper image, if that is the only bottle neck in the series of components that is used to create the picture on the screen..... A chain is not stronger than its weakest link...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no bandwidth bottle neck in my video chain. And I know where thy are several in the G90
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you choose to still post pictures with a green spot-burned tube, and talking about the fantastic MP modded neck-borard used in these shots, tells me something about your agenda, but not sure why anyone that is after the best projector and picture experience watching movies etc, actually will do that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What difference does it really make when these cameras should not be used for any technical purpose..
Click to expand...


----------



## mp20748

I tried my other camera out because I was not seeing in the posted pictures what I was seeing on the screen. It'll never fully capture it, but it should have done better, so I'm now back to camera number 2 out of the three of them. Yeah, and I know the spot thing as well, but that's not a concern for me at the moment. My calibrated boards deserve better..


----------



## Dj Dee

Good pictures Mike.

Like what I see. 


Quote:
Have not seen your CRT setup in real life, only trough your different quality pictures and many cameras and different mods, so to me it is not that well known how your setup do finer details at all
Well, DJ has mentioned it more than once. Do you trust his opinion? 

I know that Ask4Me2 believe that you don't add anything in your video Chain. But because of your camera used you get many strange things and added in your picture like sharpening, and noize. That might be some of the settings in that camera, or converting image from the camera. So DONT use that camera anymore. Also use postimage its much better.


----------



## mp20748




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## mp20748

I think it's time to work on the ringing and work on the gain problem and/or maybe put a tube in. I really would like to dial things in once I get that stuff done and for once treat it like a theater room, now that it as well is improved.


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## mp20748

We coming along on that ringing problem, because you first have to run the problem down. And of course going after it, you discover other things along the way. Boy I wish I would have looked into this years ago..


Based on what I've found out so far, the Marquee was not designed for 1920X1080P 60 or above scan rates. It seems that if you go above a certain rate, there is more going on than just that ringing problem. For instance, if you look into the tubes of a Marquee that's projecting a 1920X1080P 60hz image, you should be able to see an entire layer of what appears to be distorted or overlapped very faint scan lines or something similar when projecting a plain color field. And though the raster itself is in place, there is something else going on. I've seen it before, though it's not really in this set of boards I have in my setup, only the ringing. It's there in general and kinda look like it's wrapping a bit. That is a timing issue and one of the things I've found already and solved, with me only having to finish a solution for the ringing, which I believe I've done good at being able to isolate in such short time. I can also say that the chassis can be made better by adding more grounding, because for some reason the chassis is sort of not being used the way it should concerning grounding. This is a smaller issue that can be solved by adding maybe 4 or 5 grounding straps. This is eliminate a somewhat floating ground system. 



I can tell you that the engineers who designed the Marquee (was only a handful with some of it being done outside) really had much concern or maybe even knowledge of noise and how it can affect an image. I just left message for Cliff (former Electrohome engineer) because I need a little info on a slightly different issue on this design. Tim knows Cliff. There is some funky stuff going on with the HDM, like can someone explain why a certain thing was done the way it is. I may even put a call into Scott as well, who is now retired from VDC. The later version HDM's are a very tight design (50-002003-07 / 50-002003--08), anything before or after these two I can't comment on. And when I say tight, I'm talking about how well they have designed it's protection circuits. And though it runs hot, it's stable and holds up out of the ventilated case.for long periods of time. At least I can confirm my test unit passed both temperature and stability very well out of the ventilated case. 



Oh and I had to better decouple the HDM from the 85 volt rail that supplies both its power fets and the neck boards. They really wasn't thinking noise here..


Just when I thought I had solved the major noise problems - Boom! The HDM radiates noise both by way of it's power rails as well as, the cables going to the yokes and literally transmitting the scan frequency. The three Yoke cables should be strapped from the top of the HMD case to where the bell of the tubes are. They should not be forward of the front edge of the two board cases. Up and forward towards the tubes and away from the mother board as much as possible.


The vertical wires are either 60 0r 72hz, whichever you run your vertical rate at, and that's a frequency that video almost ignores, plus it's not transmitting it from the wires.


There were square waves on the board that was not square, but are now on my test unit. With me now only having to solve the ringing problem, that I have no idea how long it's going to take me to solve. But I can say I know exactly what I need to do, just have to figure out how to do it, and the task of figuring out the values.


Oh well, I'm doing this off and on, but do think I can bring this home. That ringing is not just on the left edge of the screen, it's actually a distortion that distorts a good part of the left side of the image. And at 1920X1080P it really impacts or affects the resolution in that area. It also makes that section darker when you look at it using certain test patterns, and dialing it out by changing the timings only shift things to make the problem go away, the linearly would still be off in that area.


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## mp20748

I've attached four shots that should tell the story or would illustrate my progress.


I was prepared for this to take possibly months, or at least weeks. Three days of partial or spare time devotion to this and Boom!




That HDM is so 1920X1080P ready, that even the smpte six group patterns look perfect on the out edge. And considering the noise and other junk in the backgrounds, they packed their bags and left with the ringing. I kicked them all out..






I'm running this on my test bed set, using the Blue CRT for these and on going testing. The blue tube has a burnt mark, which is the tube I use when working on an HDM.


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## plain fan

I remember spending time staring into the tubes of my CRT, when I had it. Working to get everything just right, or as best as the equipment and my limited skillset would allow.

Looking good Mike and looking forward to seeing the results.


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## ask4me2

Looking good MP, but not sure all this modifications is correct to do in this particular CRT screen shot war thread....

You shod maybe create your own MP. mod thread where you can post more detailed information about the modded circuitry in diagrams etc. so others can see the pros an cons and understand some about the risks about what you are doing. 

Modifications on the magnet scanning circuits HDM in a CRT projector is quite risky too, and lots of safety circuits is made in the original design to reduce the risks of damaging the tubes etc. and shutting the projector safely down when errors occurs.

It is far better that the projector wont turn on at all with a led error diode on the CLM board to identify whats wrong, than if the projector start up without the proper scanning and burn all tubes, and end the entire CRT projector setup etc. New good tubes is hard to get new now in 2019.... 

Today when you have pointed out in other forums, you no longer is producing and selling your mods and is not doing this to earn money, i think these mods and findings shod be more "freeware" when the results is published as screenshot pictures in these enthusiast forums. 

Why not show the CRT enthusiast what was concealed under blobs of glue on neck boards and the the VIM board etc.


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Looking good MP, but not sure all this modifications is correct to do in this particular CRT screen shot war thread....
> 
> You shod maybe create your own MP. mod thread where you can post more detailed information about the modded circuitry in diagrams etc. so others can see the pros an cons and understand some about the risks about what you are doing.
> 
> Modifications on the magnet scanning circuits HDM in a CRT projector is quite risky too, and lots of safety circuits is made in the original design to reduce the risks of damaging the tubes etc. and shutting the projector safely down when errors occurs.
> 
> It is far better that the projector wont turn on at all with a led error diode on the CLM board to identify whats wrong, than if the projector start up without the proper scanning and burn all tubes, and end the entire CRT projector setup etc. New good tubes is hard to get new now in 2019....
> 
> Today when you have pointed out in other forums, you no longer is producing and selling your mods and is not doing this to earn money, i think these mods and findings shod be more "freeware" when the results is published as screenshot pictures in these enthusiast forums.
> 
> Why not show the CRT enthusiast what was concealed under blobs of glue on neck boards and the the VIM board etc.



Freely publishing I gave some thought to sometime back, but preferred rather to transfer to an individual instead. Chose one of the other people that's doing mods and was told he would rather not do so, because he has not met me.. still scratching my head trying to understand that one, and can only say that I wish that would happen to me, as I'm always open to learn more. especially in this case. I am at present talking to someone else on this, and hopefully it will led somewhere this time.


Concerning the safely and/or protection of the HDM board. I can tell you that an earlier version HDM, before the 07 (last two digits on the board number) was somewhat unstable. 07 and later have the most amazing protect circuits, making it very difficult to damage to tubes or even blow the HDM. The protect circuits are solid and very fast to shut things down.


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## mp20748

Different results when I put it in the 9518 on the ceiling..


No where as bad as before, but showing only when installed in the 9518. and almost not visible in the scenes themselves. I big improvement, but I still want them gone and need to understand why the ringing is not seen at all when the HDM is inserted in my 9500 test unit..


Amyway, it is finally good to have the raster clean with no junk in the background. And after I get in the parts I ordered, I'll figure out what is going on with the 9518 that causes it to show the ringing...


The even lower noise floor greatly improved the image pop. My screen looks even more like a big 100 inch flat TV in intensity and gain..


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## ask4me2

Is this not only a very good example of what often will and do happens when someone get a modded cards that only is tested in one setup, and putting that card into a different projector?


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Is this not only a very good example of what often will and do happens when someone get a modded cards that only is tested in one setup, and putting that card into a different projector?



No, setup has nothing to do with this. As I indicated, my test unit is a 9500 and the one on the ceiling is a 9518. Two different models, but very similar in a lot of ways.


The shots show as I said previously "*should tell the story or would illustrate my progress*" therefore, the shots show clearly that the problem does not appear on model A (9500). Putting it in model B (9518) revealed something really different, but not as bad as before.


Now, let's look at Model A, which is an authentic Electrohome Model, while as I'm sure I had also mentioned that the Model B marquee was a VDC design, and what we know so far about the difference between the two would be the Control Board, HDM, LVPS, and Neck Boards (not used in my Model B). What we don't know is what else is different, and is the VDC verison of the mother board and Pack Plain different..


What else we know about Model B is that there are plenty of them that has a problem that cannot be correct using anything from the Model A version. A few of the sets have been mentioned on the forums here (Redfox/Wolfman) and neither of them the problem has been corrected, thereby leaving two owners working continuously on these Model B sets and still was not able to solve the problems using boards from Model A. The Model B I have on my ceiling was a new out of the box model about 3 years ago, yet it has had more problems than any of the previous and older models I had also mounted on the ceiling. I've had the HDM to initially have a problem, and then the LVPS went out. The HDM went out again and the Control has developed another problem that still exist. It has and has always had problems communicating with the remote, which is also a common problem on this 9518 model, to include, you cannot substitute or change the Control module from a 9518 to a 9500 version and transfer the settings, because they are not compatible..


So checking with VDC and those familiar, we found out a lot...things I won't mention here. But if I can share at least something, I would say they should have stayed with the original, knowing forst hand the reason they had to do somethings different was because of the obsolescence (no longer available) of previous parts. My suggestion on this came too late but was welcomed, and that was that they should have gotten Tim involved in the QC of these projectors. 



The 9518 I have on my ceiling the one I totally regret ever agreeing to keep on this side of the pond, because I had two Marquees already, with the one that was already on my ceiling being flawless, much like how it is today (model A that tested perfect). To now what I have on the ceiling has been a very problematic Marquee that is riddled with various problems, that as I've indicated, I've not been able myself to fix.


So no, the one on the ceiling does not confirm anything, other than what I already know. It further confirms that I should maybe re-tube my Model A and put a stable and 100% functional and reliable projector back on my ceiling. I was told when the 9518's pop up at auctions, don't bid on them and have seen some going for around $25.00 each.


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## mp20748

After the changes made to the HDM and still no peaking, sharpening, Darbee, processing, etc. Straight out of the BD player RAW..


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## mp20748

Just finished watching Saving Private Ryan BD. Almost everything is exceptional with this movie. Once you get beyond the grainy intro or very first part of it, it is loaded with pizazz and naturalness. The cameras were rarely focused on central scenes only, but seemed to capture the entire scenes in focus. A true HD movie for sure.


A few quickies...


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## mp20748




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## ask4me2

To bad that original NIB NOS 9518 now with MP mods projector is still ringing like it does and have that awful spot burn on a low hours, almost new green tube...

I guess your other test CRT rings like this too. Those test projector pics you posted with different HDMs may only have a phase shift, so by shifting raster and phase you can put the image outside the ringing, just in the same manner as other do with custom resolution settings using an external scaler? We cant see the right side of the image either, so have no clue if the ringing may have been pushed over to that side.

It had been interesting to see what you actually have done on the HDM, (in another tread?) do you have a picture of the board, and what you have done to mod it?

I know some "CRT peoples" that still is quite angry with you and your work here now and over the years, so maybe it is wise to reconsider some of this mod talk that seems to do more harm than good...

You have unwillingly proved that some how, with your latest spot burn and ringing postings...

When it comes to picture quality, I can't believe you actually want to use that spot burned projector to enjoy movies, and post screenshots from either.

My first CRT projector (Barco Graphics 808s) had a rather weak Windows NT login logo wear on the blue tube that got a little yellow in some bright scenes. That was enough to drive me nuts, and to change tubes rely fast even in those days using SD DVD as source. 

Ok the rest of your picture that is not burned, looks good, and is MP. "water marked" and easy to identify, but for one like you that claims to upgrade a rather nice original picture from a NIB NOS 9518 to this, I am a little confused...

Ok to bring it back to a CRT projector screenshot pictures discussion....

Did try to use my Iphone to take som G90 pictures from the 007 Skyfall move and here is the result .


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> To bad that original NIB NOS 9518 now with MP mods projector is still ringing like it does and have that awful spot burn on a low hours, almost new green tube...
> 
> I guess your other test CRT rings like this too. Those test projector pics you posted with different HDMs may only have a phase shift, so by shifting raster and phase you can put the image outside the ringing, just in the same manner as other do with custom resolution settings using an external scaler? We cant see the right side of the image either, so have no clue if the ringing may have been pushed over to that side.



The ringing shown in all is actual. Nothing pushed to the side as you mentioned. Not as obvious on the 9518 here, but not at all on the test 9500. And so that you'll know, the 9518 has always had a worse ringing problem. Not sure why, but can be conforimed simply by looking back over the shots to before the 9518.






> It had been interesting to see what you actually have done on the HDM, (in another tread?) do you have a picture of the board, and what you have done to mod it?[/QUOTE}
> 
> 
> Maybe one day when I do finally figure this out, and that would be why it still shows on the 9518 and not on the test unit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know some "CRT peoples" that still is quite angry with you and your work here now and over the years, so maybe it is wise to reconsider some of this mod talk that seems to do more harm than good...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there were a period for sure when there were some board problems, and before that, the request were still happening regardless and we can say that lasted for more than 15 years. Yes, there were some problems. There were also corrections and free upgrades offered. To include, the boards had an almost unlimited warranty. And even in the very later period of the boards, some still insisted on getting them from me when others had offered. And that's still the case today, because there are still request and there is still some who will still take the risk of getting them, because as they say, They know I'll make them right.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm kinda done with the mods. But as I said, some still want me to do them. Am I at fault here, when all I'm trying to exercise is doing what this thread is about...unlike you who is trying to stear it in another direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to picture quality, I can't believe you actually want to use that spot burned projector to enjoy movies, and post screenshots from either
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why not, since there seems to not be any rules here against such..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first CRT projector (Barco Graphics 808s) had a rather weak Windows NT login logo wear on the blue tube that got a little yellow in some bright scenes. That was enough to drive me nuts, and to change tubes rely fast even in those days using SD DVD as source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok forget the Barco 808 and that it had logo or other abnormalities, because it's not relevant here. Let's consider your JVC that does not have these problems and is also properly calibrated, and I can honestly say If I had to watch it it would probable drive me nuts. So we're discussing opinions here....but I do understand your point, just try and over look the blemishes, or at least stop complaining about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok the rest of your picture that is not burned, looks good, and is MP. "water marked" and easy to identify, but for one like you that claims to upgrade a rather nice original picture from a NIB NOS 9518 to this, I am a little confused...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll take this as a compliment, and thank you for the kind words and for acknowledging what I was expecting from you. And agree that until I can get things to better compliment what you yourself has indicated should be obvious of my work itself and confirmed here. I think I should at least post a lot less until I can get that tube replaced.
> 
> In the mean time and I'll agree, let's be mindful that my workmanship with the mods was a problem. That I have no problem acknowledging, admitting and is also why I had extended warranties on my work. And trust me that it was always a concern of mine and why I had also addressed the problems. But for many, it made the projector more worth watching and holding onto and they worked with me problems and all because they wanted the end results and were willing to work with me until the problems were solved if any. It really got worse back in 2015 for medical reasons. And the mods not being perfect was the least of the real problems I had back then and still to this day as a result. Some things were just and entirely outside of my control realistically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok to bring it back to a CRT projector screenshot pictures discussion....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's supposed to be about CRT screenshots...
Click to expand...


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## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Ok forget the Barco 808 and that it had logo or other abnormalities, because it's not relevant here. Let's consider your JVC that does not have these problems and is also properly calibrated, and I can honestly say If I had to watch it it would probable drive me nuts. So we're discussing opinions here....but I do understand your point, just try and over look the blemishes, or at least stop complaining about it.


Not sure why you bring up my JVC projector here?.. and why a correctly calibrated digital or CRT projector that shows the source material more correct like the film maker intended shod drive anyone with the sens of picture quality nuts...?

By the way, how are you evaluating your screenshots before you post them. Do you also use a calibrated PC monitor or TV screen to see if they looks ok?


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Not sure why you bring up my JVC projector here?.. and why a correctly calibrated digital or CRT projector that shows the source material more correct like the film maker intended shod drive anyone with the sens of picture quality nuts...?



CRT technology is way past its expiration date, yet there are people how still have them on their ceiling, and these same people are dealing with an aged technology, that could be a lot more problematic over the next few years, yet they have no intentions of going with that JVC or any other Digital. Do you think they have never seen a calibrated digital or that they should by now give up the old technology for the newer, if the newer lived up to expectations?


BTW, I decided to let you have this thread for awhile, and maybe I'll get back to posting after I get the tube replaced and finish the ringing problem. Or maybe I will leave things as they are. And maybe others will feel more comfortable posting shots and maybe then you'll be able to post more from your G90.


I think by now my point has been well proven..


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## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> CRT technology is way past its expiration date, yet there are people how still have them on their ceiling, and these same people are dealing with an aged technology, that could be a lot more problematic over the next few years, yet they have no intentions of going with that JVC or any other Digital. Do you think they have never seen a calibrated digital or that they should by now give up the old technology for the newer, if the newer lived up to expectations?


I still have a CRT projector on my ceiling, and have used CRTs for over the last 20 years.. But did also got my eye open and some jaw dropping experience when the JVC digital D-ILA revolution started with the HD1 way back then too. Had to revise my own "CRT forever" way of thinking back then too, and ended up like Winnie the pooh and a "yes please both" strategy....

Yes I do actually believe there is some "CRT forever" people around still that only have seen rather bad digital projectors and setups and use that to still only use CRT... but do also see some that want to try good digitals and end up with the CRT again too. The reason may be that they actually want that CRT look, often with some crushed black and a CRT picture signature that is not easy recreated by a digital. 




mp20748 said:


> BTW, I decided to let you have this thread for awhile, and maybe I'll get back to posting after I get the tube replaced and finish the ringing problem. Or maybe I will leave things as they are. And maybe others will feel more comfortable posting shots and maybe then you'll be able to post more from your G90.


It is not to take this thread away from you MP, see you have "owned" it right from the start, posting many of the same screenshots you still is posting. It is a little more about like you did 10 years ago, posting lots of picture with vertical squeezes etc, and doing so tells something about how the poster prioritize the use of the projector, and how he want to present it with his screenshots. 

I was hoping more that you clean up some of the obvious picture errors, and tuned down the angle that reminds more about a constant MP mod promotion. 



mp20748 said:


> I think by now my point has been well proven..


Not sure what particular points you are thinking about here MP?, sometimes it looks to me that you doing loops and contradicting your own arguments...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-crt-projectors/900831-screenshot-war-111.html#post16846200

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-crt-projectors/900831-screenshot-war-120.html#post17339194


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## mp20748

Is there anything of purpose you can better waste your time on?


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## ask4me2

yes there probably is lots of things that have more purpose of doing than follow this old CRT picture thread long after most of the CRT guys have walked away and upgraded.

Did watch two good movies today that I can recommend when you get in the new green tube. The first movie was the Blackkklansman (not so good for screenshot but a a movie with a very strong message), the second was the Bohemian Rhapsody with very high picture quality, and lots of good music for Queen fans.

From this screen shot thread that have turned into a thread with mods going nowhere fast and testing different cameras etc., we may learn something good from too. 
It could probably teach us some of the wisdom from the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... with an implication that the attempted improvement is risky and might backfire....


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## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> yes there probably is lots of things that have more purpose of doing than follow this old CRT picture thread long after most of the CRT guys have walked away and upgraded.
> 
> Did watch two good movies today that I can recommend when you get in the new green tube. The first movie was the Blackkklansman (not so good for screenshot but a a movie with a very strong message), the second was the Bohemian Rhapsody with very high picture quality, and lots of good music for Queen fans.
> 
> From this screen shot thread that have turned into a thread with mods going nowhere fast and testing different cameras etc., we may learn something good from too.
> It could probably teach us some of the wisdom from the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... with an implication that the attempted improvement is risky and might backfire....



It's good to read that you took time for something other than this thread, that you seem to be so dedicated to, yet you've only posted an handful of shots from your calibrated G90. I'll give you a hand clap for being able to step away for a brief period.


Now concerning Mods that are going nowhere. Well it seems though I've gotten out of the Mod business, there is still a demand for my work. And that has been the case for nearly two decades. So going nowhere fast may have been the case with most of all the mods ever offered, but I've remained at the forefront the longest and have had the most following, and some don't want me to retire.. Oh maybe you should have said CRT technology is going nowhere fast and that's not even the case. Because can you you think of 3 or 4 digital brands and models that are still around and in use for over 3 decades. You think at this point, that even with CRT nearing extinction sometime in the future, that it should be labeled a Die Hard Technology. Just think, unlike the other CRT-to-Digital converts, you seem to not be able to completely step away from the technology yourself. Do you ever hang out on the digital forum, where this particular technology is a no more technology. 



Ah what happened to DJ. Don't see him around much these days. Kind of miss the guy, because it's hard to get him to disagree with the truth. He comes across as a very decent guy that you can't persuade to go against what he believes to be truth. I'm the same way, so I know his kind well..


Anyway, I know my setup has a few blemishes, yet it is still capable of revealing what powers that still exist and has kept it out front for nearly 2 decades, and still has improved image wise. It's very possible that my mods or some of my work my be offered by someone else. But you'll never see it being offered by me again, nor will you see this version that I use in my screenshots also being offered. Most of any talks on them going forward is primarily for special applications. So I'm NOT promoting anything here, but if I was, it has always been OK on this forum, but it's not what I'm trying to do today for sure. No need to..




Now back to a few shots... I took a few to show how well I've diminished that banding that was so very obvious before. And I'm being reminded that this thread is the best place for doing that. That is why it is a screenshots threat...well, maybe a screenshot shoot out thread was its intent, but it has for the longest been a thread over the years where not only has the setups been the best, the shots have also not been the best. But all in all, it's been a fun hangout for a many and still is today. Believe it or not, I still get request to post from some who still look forward to seeing CRT projector images posted. So you'll have to adjust your mind to it being a fun thread. That's how you keep yourself from being so serious about nothing..


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## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> It's good to read that you took time for something other than this thread, that you seem to be so dedicated to, yet you've only posted an handful of shots from your calibrated G90. I'll give you a hand clap for being able to step away for a brief period.


Have a lot of different forums and threads that i like to visit to when i got the time. If you want to see more of my G90 pictures compared to other great modified Marqees etc, you may visit the AVForums and look for them there. I do not like posting the same pictures over and over like you do, think that is a little counterproductive and a little boring in the long run. Think there is some pictures of your work in that other thread too, but that is another story... 



mp20748 said:


> Now concerning Mods that are going nowhere. Well it seems though I've gotten out of the Mod business, there is still a demand for my work. And that has been the case for nearly two decades. So going nowhere fast may have been the case with most of all the mods ever offered, but I've remained at the forefront the longest and have had the most following, and some don't want me to retire.. Oh maybe you should have said CRT technology is going nowhere fast and that's not even the case. Because can you you think of 3 or 4 digital brands and models that are still around and in use for over 3 decades. You think at this point, that even with CRT nearing extinction sometime in the future, that it should be labeled a Die Hard Technology. Just think, unlike the other CRT-to-Digital converts, you seem to not be able to completely step away from the technology yourself. Do you ever hang out on the digital forum, where this particular technology is a no more technology.


I find it a little strange that there still is a demand for your modification work like you say, considering some of the feedback i have read about them, but you know all about that and i just have to take your word that this is correct. I know there is some alternative to these MP Marquee mods these days, so if i had a 9" Marquee i think i wold try one of them instead.
Yes i can think of some brands and digital projector models that may survive normal use for over 3 decades, (models with no mechanical moving parts while operating other than the cooling fans and quite stable light engine and regular lamp changes filter cleaning etc.) but since the CRT was the first technology out, and the good enough digitals came out many years later, this "die hard race" and comparison will be impossible to do at the moment. 
I love both technologies and want to be able to enjoy both as long as i can.



mp20748 said:


> Ah what happened to DJ. Don't see him around much these days. Kind of miss the guy, because it's hard to get him to disagree with the truth. He comes across as a very decent guy that you can't persuade to go against what he believes to be truth. I'm the same way, so I know his kind well..


Think DJ uses his new NX9 a lot at the moment, and i know something about what he actually think about CRT, and mods and CRT vs Digital projectors etc. He is a decent guy like you say, and have done a lot of side bye side CRT and Digital projector testing over the years here in Norway. He also often uses measuring equipment to get more of the objective facts that happens on the screen, and the JVC projector I use have been calibrated by him to show the best picture possible. 



mp20748 said:


> Anyway, I know my setup has a few blemishes, yet it is still capable of revealing what powers that still exist and has kept it out front for nearly 2 decades, and still has improved image wise. It's very possible that my mods or some of my work my be offered by someone else. But you'll never see it being offered by me again, nor will you see this version that I use in my screenshots also being offered. Most of any talks on them going forward is primarily for special applications. So I'm NOT promoting anything here, but if I was, it has always been OK on this forum, but it's not what I'm trying to do today for sure. No need to..


Good to know...





mp20748 said:


> Now back to a few shots... I took a few to show how well I've diminished that banding that was so very obvious before. And I'm being reminded that this thread is the best place for doing that. That is why it is a screenshots threat...well, maybe a screenshot shoot out thread was its intent, but it has for the longest been a thread over the years where not only has the setups been the best, the shots have also not been the best. But all in all, it's been a fun hangout for a many and still is today. Believe it or not, I still get request to post from some who still look forward to seeing CRT projector images posted. So you'll have to adjust your mind to it being a fun thread. That's how you keep yourself from being so serious about nothing..


Yes this is most certainly a fun thread, and here is some of my newest screenshot from the G90 and the Bohemian Rhapsody movie i saw yesterday.


----------



## Dj Dee

Posted by mp20748
Ah what happened to DJ. Don't see him around much these days. Kind of miss the guy, because it's hard to get him to disagree with the truth. He comes across as a very decent guy that you can't persuade to go against what he believes to be truth. I'm the same way, so I know his kind well..

Posted by ASK4ME2 Think DJ uses his new NX9 a lot at the moment, and i know something about what he actually think about CRT, and mods and CRT vs Digital projectors etc. He is a decent guy like you say, and have done a lot of side bye side CRT and Digital projector testing over the years here in Norway. He also often uses measuring equipment to get more of the objective facts that happens on the screen, and the JVC projector I use have been calibrated by him to show the best picture possible. 


This happens when I go up to the mountain to ski hehe.

I need to read thru 

But can say that yes I use the NX9. And I can say with 100% certainty that its nothing to compare, totally in a different league. The train with CRT has left for me and I might think I never turn on my Cine9 ever again. 
But still fun to see guys still use i CRT and have fun with it.


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Posted by mp20748
> Ah what happened to DJ. Don't see him around much these days. Kind of miss the guy, because it's hard to get him to disagree with the truth. He comes across as a very decent guy that you can't persuade to go against what he believes to be truth. I'm the same way, so I know his kind well..
> 
> Posted by ASK4ME2 Think DJ uses his new NX9 a lot at the moment, and i know something about what he actually think about CRT, and mods and CRT vs Digital projectors etc. He is a decent guy like you say, and have done a lot of side bye side CRT and Digital projector testing over the years here in Norway. He also often uses measuring equipment to get more of the objective facts that happens on the screen, and the JVC projector I use have been calibrated by him to show the best picture possible.
> 
> 
> This happens when I go up to the mountain to ski hehe.
> 
> I need to read thru
> 
> But can say that yes I use the NX9. And I can say with 100% certainty that its nothing to compare, totally in a different league. The train with CRT has left for me and I might think I never turn on my Cine9 ever again.
> But still fun to see guys still use i CRT and have fun with it.


If you do find out you want to get rid of the Cine9 Dj Dee, please call me so I can upgrade my BG808s living room table to a Cine9...


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> I find it a little strange that there still is a demand for your modification work like you say, considering some of the feedback i have read about them, but you know all about that and i just have to take your word that this is correct. I know there is some alternative to these MP Marquee mods these days, so if i had a 9" Marquee i think i wold try one of them instead.



Yes there are an alternative to what I was offering for the Marquee, and I mention that on Curt's sight, it's right there in the footing of my post. But have not been mentioning them since posting here and I have a reason for that, and would rather not post anything against their success.


What I will say is, since these mods have been in the making, and that is well over a year. They need to have someone other than the same 2 or 3 people saying something good about them. And if anyone else has purchased them, which they have they should speak out and help the cause. That would at least keep folk from asking me, when i'm not properly positioned to comment. And I don't think it's fair to repeat what I've been hearing.


I'm good with all this, so don't think you're hurting me by your comments. My mods were having some issues from day one, yet they remained sort after for nearly two decades. And with me away from the soldering iron these days I think my tenure speaks for me. Oh and I did mods for a lot of distributors, that included several of the re-badging operations. So there is nothing for me to prove... concerning the mountain top, been there, done that.. And fine with moving out of the way for someone else, with the only thing they need to do is get someone outside of their clan to speak of their progress.


Hey man, I'm good with all this. You only have to climb the mountain once..


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> If you do find out you want to get rid of the Cine9 Dj Dee, please call me so I can upgrade my BG808s living room table to a Cine9...


Great idea, I almost forgot that. I might do the same, just ned room for a table lol So far no room. I sit to close. 
Because of the 4K resolution. I really want it maxed out.
But sorry, will keep it for now, hehe  Pj has a plan when he moves to a house.


----------



## mp20748

Thought I'd remove that excessive amount of blue and post a few more.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Yes there are an alternative to what I was offering for the Marquee, and I mention that on Curt's sight, it's right there in the footing of my post. But have not been mentioning them since posting here and I have a reason for that, and would rather not post anything against their success.
> 
> 
> What I will say is, since these mods have been in the making, and that is well over a year. They need to have someone other than the same 2 or 3 people saying something good about them. And if anyone else has purchased them, which they have they should speak out and help the cause. That would at least keep folk from asking me, when i'm not properly positioned to comment. And I don't think it's fair to repeat what I've been hearing.
> 
> 
> I'm good with all this, so don't think you're hurting me by your comments. My mods were having some issues from day one, yet they remained sort after for nearly two decades. And with me away from the soldering iron these days I think my tenure speaks for me. Oh and I did mods for a lot of distributors, that included several of the re-badging operations. So there is nothing for me to prove... concerning the mountain top, been there, done that.. And fine with moving out of the way for someone else, with the only thing they need to do is get someone outside of their clan to speak of their progress.
> 
> 
> Hey man, I'm good with all this. You only have to climb the mountain once..


Very nicely written, and think you have many good point here MP.

Good to know you do not feel hurt by what I have written, i try to kick the ball, not the player, but in some cases the ball and the player is awfully close to each other and very hard to separate.

I do hope you also realize how close to home you manage to hit the target with your post and the evaluating process of different mods......


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> I do hope you also realize how close to home you manage to hit the target with your post and the evaluating process of different mods......



Why does my posting different things or making changes bother you. Do you think I'm supposed to honor whatever your thoughts are on posting in this thread, when I'm doing nothing different from what I've always done for some many years. Have they appointed you the sheriff of this thread, and if so, I'll like to mention that I was not made aware of that. So if I've broken the new rule, its because I have not been informed of the change from how things have been going for so long.


I would suggest that if you're bothered by my posting shots contrary to how you think they should be done, simply contact the forum moderators and see if they would be willing to change to rules to suit you, because you are bothered by the shots I've been posting forever..


----------



## ask4me2




----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


>



Did I misunderstand your post..


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


>



I'll tell you what we can do to keep the confusion and get around the senseless back and forth post. I thought that we could give you a real purpose on this thread, if we could involve you in what the thread is all about. To start, I'll just post it here since the tread keeps getting off course, and though you have tried to validate for persistence here by posting a few shots from your G90 a few post back. I say we put the thread back on track with you and I honoring what the thread is about (CRT Screenshot Shootout), that would mean since you have a CRT and I have a CRT, let's shoot this out and that could really give your ongoing, daily, all day long and persistent presence a real purpose.


So to start, I've posted four shots (below) from a BD that I'm sure we both have. And I know that small spot problem showing in my shots bothers you, but I ask that you think of it as a pimple or other very minor visible thing, that should not stand in the way of what the overall and maybe 99.6 % of the rest of the image is showing. Oh, and let me add, I'm running my setup now almost near my 8th gear. So it should look a little different from before shots, but I can assure you that there is absolutely no processing or enhancing going on, and that I'll not add any as we both shoot this out.. 



The shots are taking showing the entire and full image, there is no blanking and if you look really hard, you'll still be able to see the ringing, but that should not be enough to keep you from participating. I have the gain slightly above norm, but can almost double what's on the screen. So we can include brightness (gain) and of course sharpness and detail. And I'll have the Bohemian Rhapsody is a few days



Calibrated Sony G90 vs MP modified Marquee 9518..


----------



## ask4me2

Yes that sounds fun and I might do that when i got the time.

Do you have the time stamp in the movie for these scenes, or even better, the particular BD capture as picture files, so we also can check how the CRT pictures looks against the source?


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> Yes that sounds fun and I might do that when i got the time.






ask4me2 said:


> Do you have the time stamp in the movie for these scenes, or even better, the particular BD capture as picture files, so we also can check how the CRT pictures looks against the source?



Why not just use the BD, since it's supposed to be like the source. At least that's what DJ indicated, but like you I find them to be different.


But no, all I can say is there are all nearer to the end of the movie.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Why not just use the BD, since it's supposed to be like the source. At least that's what DJ indicated, but like you I find them to be different.
> 
> 
> But no, all I can say is there are all nearer to the end of the movie.





There are many different releases on this film. Thats why Ask4Me2 asks about this. And only by looking at the pictures posted I see that its totally wrong colors. Then in the photos. 

The screencaps are NOT different,,,,, if you find them different you doing something wrong or different frame or different release, or ****ed up system.
Here it comes down to what you understand or not understand. Why screencap ? so others can check a screencap to whats posted is the best way to show your photo, if that's is the purpose of posting images.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Why not just use the BD, since it's supposed to be like the source. At least that's what DJ indicated, but like you I find them to be different.





No, I do actually agree with DJ.about this if the captured BD frame is saved and used correctly..... The correct us of the BD capture picture means that the source from the exact frame from the BD and capture is the same.

The reason i want to use still pictures and not pausing the BD is because then we know the projector is getting the exact same frame out of the 24 fps stream from the movie, that gives the same exposure, focus etc from thet scene in the movie.

Here is one example from another movie (Valkyrie) some of us used as source for CRT screenshots from in another thread.





Do you see the difference in focus and sharpness in the hat between the two frames that may only be a second apart in the movie?


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> There are many different releases on this film. Thats why Ask4Me2 asks about this. And only by looking at the pictures posted I see that its totally wrong colors. Then in the photos.
> 
> The screencaps are NOT different,,,,, if you find them different you doing something wrong or different frame or different release, or ****ed up system.
> Here it comes down to what you understand or not understand. Why screencap ? so others can check a screencap to whats posted is the best way to show your photo, if that's is the purpose of posting images.


You are correct Dj Dee, I have one BD with the fifth elemen , and remember from forums that many talked about the first release of the 5E BD did not look very good. Not shure if mine is the good or bad one, have not used that in a long time....


----------



## mp20748

Two screencaps I found. Using the hosting to post them to show a difference in them...


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Why screencap ? so others can check a screencap to whats posted is the best way to show your photo, if that's is the purpose of posting images.



Search the net and check out how many caps are listed and that some are greatly different from the others. And for those you mention can check a cap what's posted, which reference should they use when they are so many to chose from. And what is to check when the test involved sharpness, detail and brightness. 



Or somehow you're thinking we can also do colors and finer comparisons, with what you already know and what the test is ofr, it would not be the setup that would be ******up.


----------



## Dj Dee

Again confirms that you don't understand. No hard feelings, but there are may different masters of this film. Also a lot of processing at least it look like it.
*As long as we use the same no problem. So why this rubbish discussion. *

Here you also see that something is wrong it crushes white in lulus "dress". Maybe edited by someone. So not the real screencap.
Also 1920x800. Screencap full 1920x1080 end of story...


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Again confirms that you don't understand. No hard feelings, but* there are may different masters of this film. Also a lot of processing at least it look like it.*
> *
> Here you also see that something is wrong it crushes white in lulus "dress". Maybe edited by someone.  So not the real screencap*.
> *Also 1920x800*. Screencap full 1920x1080 end of story...



Thank you, that was my point exactly.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Two screencaps I found. Using the hosting to post them to show a difference in them...


This is only a good example of what happend when someone do not know what a BD screencap is. These two pictures have quite clearly different sources or are both cutted and edited and is not directly made from the BD.
A genuine BD screncap of a 2.35:1 movie will have black bars over and under the picture that in total will and have the 16:9 format.

It can be OK to use these bad caps too, as long as both projectors get the exactly same source, we get a reference point to compare out from...


----------



## Dj Dee

I don't know why I bother anymore trying to explain a screencap.

Use the same, it will be fair for everybody.

*Also got someone to test 2 Marquees 9 inch on Ansi Contrast with and without modd, very similar to what you got Ask4Me2 around 80-100:1. Tested in 48hz, 50, 60 and 72 hz 1080P*


----------



## Dj Dee

Mike do this for me.

Can you pick a picture that you like, and feel that you show how good your CRT resolves the background and details.
You see from all your pictures that a calibration is needed, and I know you don't calibrate, you should because you will then get better dynamics. But I can look beyond that. 
Post that picture for me.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Mike do this for me.
> 
> Can you pick a picture that you like, and feel that you show how good your CRT resolves the background and details.
> You see from all your pictures that a calibration is needed, and I know you don't calibrate, you should because you will then get better dynamics. But I can look beyond that.
> Post that picture for me.



I wish you could arrive at my door with your JVC, so I could show you what dynamics and ansi is really all about. And do so without it being calibrated. Check out the gain the beast is putting out, while at the same time check out the black in one of the shots, the hair beads, etc. 





I put it in Rock and Roll mode just for you..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I wish you could arrive at my door with your JVC, so I could show you what dynamics and ansi is really all about. And do so without it being calibrated. Check out the gain the beast is putting out, while at the same time check out the black in one of the shots, the hair beads, etc.
> 
> 
> I put it in Rock and Roll mode just for you..


Hehe, I wish to.

Out of the box its quit good. But to get out the little extra a calibrated is needed.

This is polite said, it will be like comparing VHS to UHD Blueray, will you see the difference? 
Black will be better in absolutely everything in film on the JVC. Total fade to black your marquee will look some better. So one win out of one million.
It don't need Rock and Roll mode, on it hehe.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Black will be better in absolutely everything in film on the JVC. Total fade to black your marquee will look some better. So one win out of one million.
> It don't need Rock and Roll mode, on it hehe.



I'm curious. Take these shots below and let us see how they look in comparison to that Super High ANSI JVC you own. I'm just curious to see that the only performance difference will be fade to black, where this particular marquee will look some better.. 





once more before I dial things in better...


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I'm curious. Take these shots below and let us see how they look in comparison to that Super High ANSI JVC you own. I'm just curious to see that the only performance difference will be fade to black, where this particular marquee will look some better..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once more before I dial things in better...


I can do that, but seriously to you think or joking when saying a old Marquee can match in any way a new digital? Because it is not possible. But can look great.

And I read back from 2009 thats 10 years ago.

Maybe you should join everyone else who has been actually reading the captions to my post, where I've made it clear that the geometry has not been touched, and I've also recently indicated that I"M NOT going to touch the geometry *until I finish the room*.

*Is your room finished now or the same?*


And this: 
That ringing I might look into. One that that got me thinking of doing it is that I have a few HDM's here that it varies on. I want to look at why there's a difference between them. And I'm also thinking of shortening the yoke wires.

*You have now trid for 10 years where are you now compared to then?
*

And looking at the pictures back 10 years ago, have to say that they look better.?


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> I can do that, but seriously to you think or joking when saying a old Marquee can match in any way a new digital? Because it is not possible. But can look great.
> 
> And I read back from 2009 thats 10 years ago.
> 
> Maybe you should join everyone else who has been actually reading the captions to my post, where I've made it clear that the geometry has not been touched, and I've also recently indicated that I"M NOT going to touch the geometry *until I finish the room*.
> 
> *Is your room finished now or the same?*
> 
> 
> And this:
> That ringing I might look into. One that that got me thinking of doing it is that I have a few HDM's here that it varies on. I want to look at why there's a difference between them. And I'm also thinking of shortening the yoke wires.
> 
> *You have now trid for 10 years where are you now compared to then?
> *
> 
> And looking at the pictures back 10 years ago, have to say that they look better.?





A lot of things need correcting or attention, with the ringing being greatly improved. And I will dial things in a little better when you get on board with your JVC.. 



Anyway, let's see what the JVC can do. Being modern and new technology in comparison, it should easily out shine my old and out dated CRT technology. So let's just see how many miles better your JVC would be in comparison..


----------



## Dj Dee

I don't think I will, when watching and comparing your images to the screencap.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> I don't think I will, when watching and comparing your images to the screencap.



I didn't ask you to post the screencaps. But you can use the caps for source. I want to see what it looks like after it has projected onto your screen and then from the camera.






The BD is 1920X1080 these are: 1,280px × 720px (scaled to 1,114px × 627px)


----------



## mp20748

Can you post the same shots, in JPEG. I can't get PNG to show in my BD players


----------



## ask4me2

PNG is a lossless compression file format and JPG is a lossy compression file format...

Some of the difference nicely illustrated with this one



Are you shure your BD palyer do not support PNG?

If not, It may be a good investment to get a BD player that support PNG when using the setup quite often taking screens shots..?


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> PNG is a lossless compression file format and JPG is a lossy compression file format...
> 
> Some of the difference nicely illustrated with this one
> 
> 
> 
> Are you shure your BD palyer do not support PNG?
> 
> If not, It may be a good investment to get a BD player that support PNG when using the setup quite often taking screens shots..?





Thanks for this. When I put the USB into the slot the menu shows PJEG and something else, but not PNG. I agree, PNG would be my better, and it's what's usually used with Logos and such.


I have a few more I'll check to see if they can do PNG. And if I'm able to use the Caps, there's an easier and wider selection to concerning them..


----------



## mp20748

None of my BD players handles PNG in USB..


But thought I'd post a few from an older but kinda of top of their line at the time. And for some reason they seem to have more red push using this BD player


----------



## Dj Dee

I found this picture of a CRT "Marquee" on the same picture you posted. 

1. Give me a explanation why your picture Mike look like it does.
2. Why do you use a camera that look like you have massive processing in the image, when I know you don't add any. Have you checked the settings in your players?

Here you see your picture the left one and the right one a correct adjusted Marquee CRT that I downloaded from the net. So why you get so totally off on everything in your pictures are a mystery to me.


----------



## Dj Dee

If you don't see that you have huge amount of errors in your pictures I hope you see now.

You can also check with the screencaps posted. 

This is a screenshot war and here you got bombed massive Mike.


----------



## Dj Dee

Here some of my 1080P JVC X500 compared to your Marquee any contest?
I hope that you see that you don't hit one single color point at all. Your photo look edited black and white old film from 1930


----------



## mp20748

Hey DJ, once again I asked you to post shots from your setup. I want to see what your setup looks like and you keep wondering off into the wilderness.


You know already how just plain dumb I find your comparisons here. Think about it. What exactly are you comparing, the two different cameras used, or just the projectors. If projectors, how do you qualify the use of two totally different cameras, which within themselves being in the equation, puts this kind of comparison in the No Useful Purpose category.



Plus you and I both know where that shot came from, and that it is just like the rest have been enhanced to some degree. Plus, your comparison is still not show it being superior, it only shows the colors are more accurate to the source. Detail, no. But that's irrelevant, because the comparison itself is ridiculous.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Hey DJ, once again I asked you to post shots from your setup. I want to see what your setup looks like and you keep wondering off into the wilderness.
> 
> 
> You know already how just plain dumb I find your comparisons here. Think about it. What exactly are you comparing, the two different cameras used, or just the projectors. If projectors, how do you qualify the use of two totally different cameras, which within themselves being in the equation, puts this kind of comparison in the No Useful Purpose category.
> 
> 
> 
> Plus you and I both know where that shot came from, and that it is just like the rest have been enhanced to some degree. Plus, your comparison is still not show it being superior, it only shows the colors are more accurate to the source. Detail, no. But that's irrelevant, because the comparison itself is ridiculous.


Ok so whats your agenda in this screenshot war?, I gave you a war like the thread is for,, beat the picture. Use your best camera then. And throw this one you used on this shot. 

This is my setup right now JVC X500, JVC NX9, and the Epson 9400 have it for testing and a calibration.


Here some shots before I put the Epson up, you see it laying on the floor.




What about your setup, Hey Mike, post shots from your setup I like to see.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Ok so whats your agenda in this screenshot war?, I gave you a war like the thread is for,, beat the picture. Use your best camera then. And throw this one you used on this shot



The whole thing about a real screenshot war is somewhat not possible here, and most know that. You on the other hand, try and write rules by posting really senseless means of judging or determining something. and for some reason, you're not understanding how ridiculous it is to post shots in comparison the way you do, meaning also when you do close ups to show detail. It's not possible to do a fair comparison that way.


Once more, The "screenshot" term was originally introduced to most of us going abck to when INFOCOMM was the Show place for Commercial equipment. It was an annual show setup once a year at various cities in the US. I'm not aware of it being outside of the US, but it was the THING back in the day. 



And to give you why thus thread can never be a real screenshot thread is support in the original system they used at the INFOCOMM shows back in the 80's and maybe 90's...


Where there was a huge room in a convention center or hotel. That each of the projector manufacturers had a table and screen other support to setup and show what their projector looked like. But here is the KEY thing then and would need to be the case for any real shootout. The INFOCOMM method supplied a video feed from a video distribution matrix to each of the projectors around the room. Meaning that each projector got the same source feed. And they also used a INFOMM SHOOTOUT CD for the source. So with that being said, you MUST have the same source going into the projector. The lighting in these rooms were usually low, where it applied to every setup in the room. And when it was all setup and ready, the companies could see what each projector looked like. So they were judged based on the image, and when something was special, it was obvious, because the best setups always had the crowd watching them.


And I know this will not set right for you, because you're set in your ways on this. But scientifically there would have to be the same source or shared source, and no cameras involved between the screen and the eyes.


So your insistence to bring quality to zooming and cut and pasting as a means of comparing just does not hold up to technical merit.


Or you could could go back to how Cliff and I had been posting in the thread, and that would be to just post your shots and let other judge based on what they see. The camera and the source being different makes the whole thing nothing more than something to do. What we post here can never tell a full or real story of the setup. It can ONLY be used as an idea of what the setup can do. 



And even if I used my best camera, it will never really capture what's on my screen.








> What about your setup, Hey Mike, post shots from your setup I like to see.


I can't, I put potting material all over everything..


.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> What about your setup, Hey Mike, post shots from your setup I like to see.



I can't, I put potting material all over everything..


.[/QUOTE]

What??? I put potting material all over hehe
Don't take this personal or the wrong way Mike, I just tell you that in here,, like it is *"screenshot war"* Not just posting for pleasure and no meaning. I posted some shots form a CRT and also a digital the X500. So it could be a fight. 
I can fix more, but I don't see why, when I clearly show my photos posted here that is extremely much better in all aspects in the photo, I hope you see this to. 

Give me the same picture with all your cameras and I help you exclue in the future which camera you don't want to use anymore for screenshots. Let the fun begin


----------



## ask4me2

I am not familiar with the term "potting material" Mike, please explain before I get the wrong pictures in my head...

When you write about the INFOCOMM and use that to explain the term screenshot, then I wonder how many of the ones that have posted pictures in this thread have that same opinion.
It also do not explain all of your pictures posted here to show how good your projector is performing?

Think DJ Dee is sowing us some real good screenshots from digitals and CRTs, that look very close to the source. That is also one very nice benefit of using that BD capture as a reference.

I do also think I recognize that CRT used for these pictures, and if I am correct, that is a very good setup that manages to generate screenshots real close to the source and with lots of details.


----------



## mp20748

Guys, here is a nugget concerning screenshots. The ONLY way to determine what a projector can do is to post many shots at once. 



The source on my Baraka BD is very different from the caps source. So how can you say which one is the correct source?


I downloaded the same shot and converted it to JPEG. It went from being a 1meg file down to 300k after conversion, so I left it alone. The BD shot coming out of the player has more detail than the cap, and that would explain the darkness shown or black, that's not showing in the cap.


I like the BD version better, because it surely has more and better detail.




Potting material is a glue looking substance used to conceal proprietary work done in electronics and used on PC boards to cover that same work. 



Funny thing though, the people who post single shots that are so different from what they have been posting, seem to never post random shots or groups...hmm and the same people who also has the same boards, never post shots it seems. One would think they would be posting more or posting period, whereas Greg is the only one who does post various shots. But his setup looks like an ECP3100


----------



## mp20748

Hey DJ answer this for me:
* How did my originally posted shot go from a file size of 127,2KB to what you had posted it as: 703,43KB*..


Wow..from 127KB to 700KB. That is some SERIOUS mucked up stuff going on there..




I ask because looking back at this so-called comparison, I saw a ton of noise and processing that is not in my original (I have to use this word here) file posted previously, to it being altered or processed as the file sizing proves and drastically increased in file size. And do you think that even if a had approved of the comparison, that the file should have been unaltered or left in its original form?


You do know that once you resize and/or alter a file you will drastically affect the original nature of the image also degrade it. As well, that when the hosting service resizes the image it looses dynamic content thru that process. And is another reason why these shots cannot (as I've always have been saying) be used to determine the true nature of anything. My well known words are: "they can only give an idea"


and again, do you think if I would have approved of the comparison, that it should not have been done by someone who I have challenged to simply post the same shots from their setup (and won't) or someone that is trying to prove that my shots look worse, before they were even posted.


You got some explaining to do..




Oh dang, how did the JVC5000 get in this, when my previous request asked for shots from an G90 and your setup..




You popped up on the scene a few years ago with you oddball way of proving things, when this thread had been in place for more than a decade, yet you forget that if you look back through the history of the thread, you'll easily see that you were not the first person to try this.....yep... Again, "the source MUST be the same" and in this case you cannot resize and/or process and get a fair outcome. And with mine being resized to the other. Be mindful that you have ALWAYS argued that MP does not use processing. How did it get there then..




.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Guys, here is a nugget concerning screenshots. The ONLY way to determine what a projector can do is to post many shots at once.


I do see some logic in that some how, but lets face it, no chain is not stronger that its weakest link. there may also be some truth to “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

So let say the camera and/or picture viewing monitor is not up to the task of showing whats on the projector screen, then we can post as many pictures we like and never be able to show the full quality of the projector. In your case with the screenshots, i do not know what or where the the weakest link is, but in the way the pictures looks different from the source, changing over the years etc. it may be a sort of a system failure caused by some reluctance to measure and calibrate when it comes to colors, and using the correct photo equipment so the picture files looks so over sharpened. (also when downloading the original pictures you upload to the image sharing site)




mp20748 said:


> The source on my Baraka BD is very different from the caps source. So how can you say which one is the correct source?


Only one that do not understand what a caps source is compared to the BD can say something like that. Ok, when we play the BD and get 24 frames each second we get a different situation, but photo screenshots when the BD is paused and the correctly used cap is the same as that particular paused BD frame they have to be identical by them self.



mp20748 said:


> I downloaded the same shot and converted it to JPEG. It went from being a 1meg file down to 300k after conversion, so I left it alone. The BD shot coming out of the player has more detail than the cap, and that would explain the darkness shown or black, that's not showing in the cap.
> 
> I like the BD version better, because it surely has more and better detail.



Yes when you converted the captured PNG shot to JPEG, you add a lossy compression to the loop and reduces the picture quality. Nothing strange about that.





mp20748 said:


> Potting material is a glue looking substance used to conceal proprietary work done in electronics and used on PC boards to cover that same work.


 Ahh that was good of you to point out, i was a moment afraid is was more in term "When the **** hits the fan" area, and did not want to go there.

I think DJ Dee's projector setup and home cinema looks very good and perfect for someone with the interest for projectors. The only sad part is that there is not enough space and throwing distance for his Cine9 in that room.

Here is my rather small G90 CRT room by the way 





mp20748 said:


> Funny thing though, the people who post single shots that are so different from what they have been posting, seem to never post random shots or groups...hmm and the same people who also has the same boards, never post shots it seems. One would think they would be posting more or posting period, whereas Greg is the only one who does post various shots. But his setup looks like an ECP3100


If you do some search on the internet, you may find other threads with more random CRT groups of shots from other modded Marquees. Think Greg have a nice 9" CRT setup too, but think some of his camera work sometimes work against him...


----------



## Dj Dee

*Mike we can take many shots, but this is easy, and *you don't understand what I have done*. I have compared your picture to another picture side by side so you can see how off you are.

*You say I like the BD version better, because it surely has more and better detail. If you get different something in your setup is ****ed up.

*Why I post one at a time, is to evaluate the photo not your CRT. Posting a bounce like you do is also okey, but let us be finished with one before you start another.

*Greg at another forum is similar to you in quality of the photos. From horrible to great. Here it comes down to camera knowledge and understanding.

* You say: _I downloaded the same shot and converted it to JPEG. It went from being a 1meg file down to 300k after conversion, so I left it alone. The BD shot coming out of the player has more detail than the cap, and that would explain the darkness shown or black, that's not showing in the cap.
_ This is because you don't know how to convert it correct.

* You say: _and again, do you think if I would have approved of the comparison, that it should not have been done by someone who I have challenged to simply post the same shots from their setup (and won't) or someone that is trying to prove that my shots look worse, before they were even posted._
This doesn't prove your setup is horrible, just give a indication. And for shore I can see away from your calibration. But not everything in a picture lie. I for shore dont hope that the picture you posted look anything close on screen. If it does your CRT is totally screwed or messed up.

* You say: _You got some explaining to do..

_ I will say you have a understanding problem of what is done and how things shall be done. 

* You say :_Oh dang, how did the JVC5000 get in this, when my previous request asked for shots from an G90 and your setup.._
First of all its a X500 a older model than the X5000. So you understand more easy if I used DVD instead of Blueray I will match your images posted easy on every aspect. And the X500 I can use for tests and shots, and you have to understand when you take shots of a uncalibrated setup, it will effect everything in your CRT, and might even get much worse than a original unmodded one.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> *Blu Ray 1080P > Moome FullHD > Marquee 9500LC Ultra*


Look at this shots form 10 years ago, they are way more correct than the one you post today why?.


----------



## Dj Dee

Mike does this in any way mess with your picture?

This is basic understanding. yes or no


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Look at this shots form 10 years ago, they are way more correct than the one you post today why?.



Why do you keep asking this same question, when the answer has has made clear over and over. My boards are still in the [email protected] process, where as I keep saying over and over, it is difficult to calibrate because of the gain amplifier I've been working on. What is it with your "this one looks correct" comments, when it's been clear the projector is not calibrated.


And your consistent I don't understand. No you are the one without understanding, and that is proved every time you do senseless comparisons and your pursuit to bring a science to comparing shots that has only the image itself in common. Why can't you understand how technically ridiculous that is. And it's not just you, no one would be able to bring truthfulness out of this foolishness that we refer to as Screenshots. At what point will you get this? 



These baseless procedures (would be the right word) you persistently perform are are a total waste of time, and could never amount to anything worthwhile mainly because different makes and models of the camera. 







Dj Dee said:


> Mike does this in any way mess with your picture?


 This is basic understanding. yes or no


Sure it does, and it can be seen that there is a resolution difference. Whenever you resize and image, you degrade it. But the shot moved up in size from the original in your comparison shots, with these last ones being the same file size.


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> Why do you keep asking this same question, when the answer has has made clear over and over. My boards are still in the [email protected] process, where as I keep saying over and over, it is difficult to calibrate because of the gain amplifier I've been working on. What is it with your "this one looks correct" comments, when it's been clear the projector is not calibrated.


If these boards is still in the Research and Development state after all these years...., how do you even evaluate them and the gain amplification... if you do not measure light output, contrast, grayscale and calibrate the projector? 

You have a plan to use your mods to make the projector look better than its original state is it not?

The best way may been to have a correctly calibrated reference projector to do some fast switching between to see the changes in the modded projectors picture in real life on the screen. 
Using our eyes with no reference and using our picture memory longer than only some seconds to evaluate this is just as bad as using a random digital camera....

When it comes to the way DJ Dee is testing your pictures, I agree that it is not 100% the correct way of doing this using scaling and lossy formats etc, but when the sharpness and processing errors in your original posted pictures is at this magnitude, I think DJ Dee's methods look perfectly fine and good enough to make all the points he want to show.


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Why do you keep asking this same question, when the answer has has made clear over and over. My boards are still in the [email protected] process, where as I keep saying over and over, it is difficult to calibrate because of the gain amplifier I've been working on. What is it with your "this one looks correct" comments, when it's been clear the projector is not calibrated.
> 
> 
> And your consistent I don't understand. No you are the one without understanding, and that is proved every time you do senseless comparisons and your pursuit to bring a science to comparing shots that has only the image itself in common. Why can't you understand how technically ridiculous that is. And it's not just you, no one would be able to bring truthfulness out of this foolishness that we refer to as Screenshots. At what point will you get this?
> 
> 
> 
> These baseless procedures (would be the right word) you persistently perform are are a total waste of time, and could never amount to anything worthwhile mainly because different makes and models of the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is basic understanding. yes or no
> 
> 
> Sure it does, and it can be seen that there is a resolution difference. Whenever you resize and image, you degrade it. But the shot moved up in size from the original in your comparison shots, with these last ones being the same file size.


I rest my case with this and your answer, so you know its just the same image 100% , Just corped away the black bars, no difference in your picture quality what so ever.. Your image is not downsized, just removed the black. I guess you don't mean that the black removed around your image will do anything, . ITS NOT RESIZED, JUST LIKE I SAID YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS DONE. 
Move forwards.


----------



## mp20748

ask4me2 said:


> When it comes to the way DJ Dee is testing your pictures, I agree that it is not 100% the correct way of doing this using scaling and lossy formats etc, *but when the sharpness and processing errors in your original posted pictures is at this magnitude*, I think DJ Dee's methods look perfectly fine and good enough to make all the points he want to show.



Comical.. considering DJ has always said that my images DOES NOT HAVE PROCESSING or at times MIKE DOES NOT USE PROCESSING..


And this, when it comes to the exact same person who he is comparing the shots to: YOUR SHOTS HAVE PROCESSING..


And look back over the many post that substantiate this. To all of a sudden, my shots are loaded with Processing..


Gus stop making this stuff up. just think about the many times DJ has mentioned how clean my shots are and that I don't use processing, to include letting the other person know he has a lot of Processing in his shots. And not surprised at all, because neither of you ever root any of you testing into science or anything that makes sense.




You have posted a total contradiction, from what is already known as FACT.








> I agree that it is not 100% the correct way of doing this using scaling and lossy formats etc



Brilliant and true to your mindset. Agreeing that's it's not the correct way, and then saying it should be OK under the circumstances, makes zero sense. But since you are being consistent here with convoluted answers, I say I should be a little more understanding that your motives/emotions are more driving here than science or logic, sure it some kinda make sense, but maybe not perfect sense, but maybe enough sense to use to make a point that's pointless... OK, I think I got this figured out..


When one is sincere (honest) in posting they will stick with the original way we have been posting in this thread. That is to post a batch of shots at once. That way the setup can be viewed from various perspectives. We had found out that most of the single shot posting has been, shots that has been enhanced or those out of a 100 batch that look good enough to use. 



And here is the real killer on this one. DJ has pointed out consistently in the past that the other person uses a lot of processing, and have made it clear constantly that MP does not. With DJ suddenly doing a 180 flip, the bigger problem is not my newly developed means of making my shots sharper, when I'm 100% against it, to us finally seeing that the other person no longer uses processing. Boy what a coincident here.


And what was going on in my compared shot when it had gained over 500KB in file size, yet it was converted to a smaller image.. He never answered that one.. 



Anyways guys, have fun. But in your doing so be respectful to not use others images for the sole purpose of trying to make the person look bad. Because that's all this amounts to.


And one last thing, if you knew what to look for even my modified, compromised and manipulated shot still handled resolution better. The other shot appears slightly sharper, but definitely did not do a better job resolution wise. That is why the shot version I'm using has the darker and slightly different colors of shades. 





MP is using processing and has noise in his images...so ignore everything in the past when DJ Dee posted that my shots were very clean or clean.


----------



## Dj Dee

Mike do what I ask you post the same picture with all your cameras.
Just this one.
This is the reference. This is how it shall look, this is what you shall see.
And I really hope that you don't see it like you show it. If that's the case you shall remove all your modifications and start over, or get someone elses mods.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Mike do what I ask you post the same picture with all your cameras.
> Just this one.
> This is the reference. This is how it shall look, this is what you shall see.
> And I really hope that you don't see it like you show it. If that's the case you shall remove all your modifications and start over, or get someone elses mods.



And why would I join in on trying to duplicate the source as it is, when that's not something I can make happen because I cannot properly calibrate my setup..




Can you explain what has already happened, and that is how did my copied file gain more than 500KB during the process from a 127KB file. 



Since I can't do your comparison, let's do first thing first. answer that question for me, since that is the first time I've seen that happen. 





DJ won't you find something really worthwhile to waste your time on. Screenshot should never be seen as something to get serious about. Only to not use others postings as a means to degrade anyone...learn to see this as a fun thread instead, and stop wasting your time on absolutely worthless discussions about nothing..


.

This thread can NEVER be a means for evaluate a setup, so stop it!!!


----------



## ask4me2

mp20748 said:


> And what was going on in my compared shot when it had gained over 500KB in file size, yet it was converted to a smaller image.. He never answered that one..


Ok MP you may or may not understand lots of things, but if I read you correctly, there is one big clue here of whats going on viewing this picture that you see gaining file size but is reduced in size.

Have you ever heard about scale to fit or know about how these forum pages via coding automatically fit pictures among the text etc.? There is lots of automatically scaling on pictures on sites like this because they want them to look good when different screen sizes and resolutions is used with them. I guess your PC is automatically re-scaling the view of the picture so it fits the screen resolution and size, and that is what you see here?

To get around this, you need to open these picture and choose to view them at their native resolution and size. Please try that before you go any further with your accusations about who is lacking the knowledge etc. 

When it comes to processing or not in our CRT setups and screenshot pictures, it often about where in the chain the processing is done, and if there is some additional processing going on. 

I think your CRT setup have very little processing other than whats happens in your BD player and/or the D/A moome card, when you get the projected picture you see on the screen. There need to be some processing like the chroma upsampling from the 4:2:0 format saved on the disk etc, but the processing DJ Dee is talking about, i think must be for your camera, when we looks closer at the pictures. 

The bad form of processing we are talking about, starts when your camera expose the picture on the chip, debayer and saves/compress it to a Jpg file. Cameras often have some settings for resolution and picture quality and compression that work on the file size you get out of the camera. Cameras often have different modes where there is different amount of processing etc.


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Ok MP you may or may not understand lots of things, but if I read you correctly, there is one big clue here of whats going on viewing this picture that you see gaining file size but is reduced in size.
> 
> Have you ever heard about scale to fit or know about how these forum pages via coding automatically fit pictures among the text etc.? There is lots of automatically scaling on pictures on sites like this because they want them to look good when different screen sizes and resolutions is used with them. I guess your PC is automatically re-scaling the view of the picture so it fits the screen resolution and size, and that is what you see here?
> 
> To get around this, you need to open these picture and choose to view them at their native resolution and size. Please try that before you go any further with your accusations about who is lacking the knowledge etc.
> 
> When it comes to processing or not in our CRT setups and screenshot pictures, it often about where in the chain the processing is done, and if there is some additional processing going on.
> 
> I think your CRT setup have very little processing other than whats happens in your BD player and/or the D/A moome card, when you get the projected picture you see on the screen. There need to be some processing like the chroma upsampling from the 4:2:0 format saved on the disk etc, but the processing DJ Dee is talking about, i think must be for your camera, when we looks closer at the pictures.
> 
> The bad form of processing we are talking about, starts when your camera expose the picture on the chip, debayer and saves/compress it to a Jpg file. Cameras often have some settings for resolution and picture quality and compression that work on the file size you get out of the camera. Cameras often have different modes where there is different amount of processing etc.


For shore its the camera, I really hope so for Mike.

And 100% correct what you write here.
I only try to help him to post good pictures. And then he have to pick the camera that gives the best.
The camera used for the shot we talk about does a really ****ty job. 
So I hope the take the time to do what I asked him.
Then im shore this picture will look better.

Also contrast and brightness in the projector need to be correct set. I have a feeling that he adjusts contrast in the projector also brightness before taking a shot.

By adjusting up or down brightness he elevates black or making blackcrush. With adjusting contrast away from the correct possession he burns out or to low killing dynamics.
It must be set correct before taking a picture. I read that form a earlier post that this is done.


----------



## ask4me2

Did watch a couple of movies on the G90 today, and did some screenshots from some BD caps i had from Baraka and Blues Brothers.


----------



## ask4me2

And Blues Brothes


----------



## Dj Dee

Boring movie no picture Ask4Me2?


----------



## ask4me2

Dj Dee said:


> Boring movie no picture Ask4Me2?


The Blues Brothers is one of my favorite movies, and did actually see "First Man" before I used the camera, and that was a nice movie experience too. The pictures is linked from postimage, and it looks like that site runs a little slow at the moment.


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> Boring movie no picture Ask4Me2?


You are so wrong. Best movies ever. Da sh.......t!!!!!


----------



## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> You are so wrong. Best movies ever. Da sh.......t!!!!!


Did not mean the movie, at first there were no pictures. I just got black image. That's why I wrote boring movie. LOL


----------



## Dj Dee

ask4me2 said:


> Did watch a couple of movies on the G90 today, and did some screenshots from some BD caps i had from Baraka and Blues Brothers.



Great images. Very good.....


----------



## Per Johnny

Dj Dee said:


> Great images. Very good.....


Yeesss, I want my G90 back.


----------



## thewolfman

The gravel pit, MP, does it look like to have the correct colors on screen then? Or this many colors as seen on your posts? I bet 10 to 1 your image on site does look like real brown pit it should look like. Your camera did a poor job on that one. If not, well then all your other images would look seriously strange too but they don't. No, that gravel pit has to be a camera thing or something else going on and not your genuine screen image. Have a good look at it and tell us.. brown of multiple colors?


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> The gravel pit, MP, does it look like to have the correct colors on screen then? Or this many colors as seen on your posts? I bet 10 to 1 your image on site does look like real brown pit it should look like. Your camera did a poor job on that one. If not, well then all your other images would look seriously strange too but they don't. No, that gravel pit has to be a camera thing or something else going on and not your genuine screen image. Have a good look at it and tell us.. brown of multiple colors?


If you Wonder what is correct look at the screencap.

The pictures taken by Ask4me2 to and the other picture I posted are both very good. And close to the source.

That’s also why I ask Mike to post this picture with all his different cameras.


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> The gravel pit, MP, does it look like to have the correct colors on screen then? Or this many colors as seen on your posts? I bet 10 to 1 your image on site does look like real brown pit it should look like. Your camera did a poor job on that one. If not, well then all your other images would look seriously strange too but they don't. No, that gravel pit has to be a camera thing or something else going on and not your genuine screen image. Have a good look at it and tell us.. brown of multiple colors?


When we have the png file saved from the BD, it is quite easy to see how these picture shod look like. We need however to have a correct calibrated screen some were in that loop too.

Nice to see you in here again thewolfman.

How is your Marquee doing at the moment? If it is up and running it had been nice to see some screenshots from your setup and screen here too.


----------



## thewolfman

ask4me2 said:


> When we have the png file saved from the BD, it is quite easy to see how these picture shod look like. We need however to have a correct calibrated screen some were in that loop too.
> 
> Nice to see you in here again thewolfman.
> 
> How is your Marquee doing at the moment? If it is up and running it had been nice to see some screenshots from your setup and screen here too.



No, it is not up and running, I don't even have a OLED at the moment, waiting for the 2019 to arrive and if the price is right get a 77 inch one. A 65 just dones't get me an erektion so thought I'd calm down and save mean while to get the things I want. No monitor 65 inch for me.. It got to be at least 75 inch which only Samsung and LG can get me.

But, use my fellow MP parts guy in Finland to do my posting with oolder parts. He has my second unit parts I sold him and he is not shy at all to post, which will surprise you that colors can be correct too. Or closer then Before at least, as using Caps can be a Learning curve one needs to get thrue to get the caps you are posting. And may I say that your G90 hold up against any digital I ever seen. Colors are so Close to the real thing I want you over to calibrate mine for heavens sake, but, still under the livingroom table for the time being. But cleaning up the joint as we speak, Little by Little, to eventually get going hoisting my new Barcley 9518..


----------



## thewolfman

Dj Dee said:


> If you Wonder what is correct look at the screencap.
> 
> The pictures taken by Ask4me2 to and the other picture I posted are both very good. And close to the source.
> 
> That’s also why I ask Mike to post this picture with all his different cameras.



I know what the caps look like, and what the MP looks like, and no calibration is needed on this one.. if MP has the light Brown going on at his screen too, well then there is no need for a calibrated image, a gradually Brown gravel pit will do just fine, it will only look off by a Little, but far away from the one he has posted so far. Many many colors going on there that should only have basically dirt Brown in it. At various degrees of course. There is something wrong with his gravel shot and the real thing. If it is not then MP has a board flawed somewhere.


----------



## ask4me2

thewolfman said:


> No, it is not up and running, I don't even have a OLED at the moment, waiting for the 2019 to arrive and if the price is right get a 77 inch one. A 65 just dones't get me an erektion so thought I'd calm down and save mean while to get the things I want. No monitor 65 inch for me.. It got to be at least 75 inch which only Samsung and LG can get me.
> 
> But, use my fellow MP parts guy in Finland to do my posting with oolder parts. He has my second unit parts I sold him and he is not shy at all to post, which will surprise you that colors can be correct too. Or closer then Before at least, as using Caps can be a Learning curve one needs to get thrue to get the caps you are posting. And may I say that your G90 hold up against any digital I ever seen. Colors are so Close to the real thing I want you over to calibrate mine for heavens sake, but, still under the livingroom table for the time being. But cleaning up the joint as we speak, Little by Little, to eventually get going hoisting my new Barcley 9518..


Hope you get your 77" Oled and the "Barcley 9518" up and running soon 

Had been real nice to see some CRT screenshots from your fellow MP parts guy in Finland too. Hope he know about this tread and want to show us how some older MP modded parts can look like too.


----------



## mp20748

Spent the past hour or so doing a quick focus tweaking and also tried to do a quick color balance, but the gain stage is still a problem..


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> If you don't see that you have huge amount of errors in your pictures I hope you see now.
> 
> You can also check with the screencaps posted.
> 
> This is a screenshot war and here you got bombed massive Mike.



I want to revisit this one here, and add something someone else pointed out to me on it.


Again, considering that you yourself has ALWAYS said I don't add or use enhancements. And you many comments that my shots are clean. How do you explain this, when you already know my shots are as I've been saying they are, CLEAN. How did the shot on the left end up with so much processing..


That is a terrible amount of processing and noise, considering my shots have always when checked out by you to be clean, when on the other hand, the other persons shots have ALWAYS checked out to you to be fake or have a lot of processing. Would I need to post what you've been sending me in PM's concerning the others persons shots, and you've even posted on this same thread (in the past) the same thing, to here recently saying something completely the opposite..


Have you also joined that "conspiracy" to "destroy me" 


and according to the shot I posted on this that you used for comparison, it is a very low resolution shot (127KB). And what I'm told it was slanderous for you to use it in comparison at that files size. Beyond stupid really.



Yet, you post that you want to make my shots look better.. when I post a small batch of low resolution (but clean) shots, it presented an opportunity to show that someone else's shots are better, but that's the truth because it was an unfair comparison. When you were asked to post using your JVC, you instead decided to post using someone else shot to make mine look bad.


According to my messages from you and what you have been saying about both of our shots, the other person uses a lot of processing, while I never use processing ("MP never uses processing" DJ Dee) 



I do want to point another thing out, and that is that you notice what I posted at the top of those group of shots this was taking from. Where it say "before I do a touch up"


And to also add, do you think it would have been a fair comparison knowing I have been just posting shots using any camera and have been making it clear that they are not the best... yet you pick from the lowest batch of shots I've posted to prove that I have a lot of processing in my shots, when you have consistently said just the opposite.


Let me know if you have joined the "conspiracy" because how else can you justify taking a 127KB JPEG file and convert it into a zoomed in 1,107.68KB file that was also converted into PNG, and then place it side-by-side to an actual 1,107KB file. And then point out the noise and distortions in my massively converted 127K file..


----------



## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> I want to revisit this one here, and add something someone else pointed out to me on it.
> 
> 
> Again, considering that you yourself has ALWAYS said I don't add or use enhancements. And you many comments that my shots are clean. How do you explain this, when you already know my shots are as I've been saying they are, CLEAN. How did the shot on the left end up with so much processing..
> 
> 
> That is a terrible amount of processing and noise, considering my shots have always when checked out by you to be clean, when on the other hand, the other persons shots have ALWAYS checked out to you to be fake or have a lot of processing. Would I need to post what you've been sending me in PM's concerning the others persons shots, and you've even posted on this same thread (in the past) the same thing, to here recently saying something completely the opposite..
> 
> 
> Have you also joined that "conspiracy" to "destroy me"
> 
> 
> and according to the shot I posted on this that you used for comparison, it is a very low resolution shot (127KB). And what I'm told it was slanderous for you to use it in comparison at that files size. Beyond stupid really.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, you post that you want to make my shots look better.. when I post a small batch of low resolution (but clean) shots, it presented an opportunity to show that someone else's shots are better, but that's the truth because it was an unfair comparison. When you were asked to post using your JVC, you instead decided to post using someone else shot to make mine look bad.
> 
> 
> According to my messages from you and what you have been saying about both of our shots, the other person uses a lot of processing, while I never use processing ("MP never uses processing" DJ Dee)
> 
> 
> 
> I do want to point another thing out, and that is that you notice what I posted at the top of those group of shots this was taking from. Where it say "before I do a touch up"
> 
> 
> And to also add, do you think it would have been a fair comparison knowing I have been just posting shots using any camera and have been making it clear that they are not the best... yet you pick from the lowest batch of shots I've posted to prove that I have a lot of processing in my shots, when you have consistently said just the opposite.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you have joined the "conspiracy"



If you have read what I write. I say that you need to change camera, because the camera used here does many things to the image. 
So the answer to your question: A_nd you many comments that my shots are clean. How do you explain this, when you already know my shots are as I've been saying they are, CLEAN. How did the shot on the left end up with so much processing. _ Answer: I know you don't have any processing in your CRT or chain. But your camera does many things, so stop using that camera. So not stupid, just that you dont understand the purpose and the logic of this critic. Might be smart to start there and acept and try to understand.

And to destroy you, is your own words And conspiracy, that is also your own words. This will not earn me anything, so not interested to do any of this *I only point out what I see, and talking about fact and logic to what I can see in your posted shots. This is your shots I talk about, not your CRT or your setup.*

I just point out what I see, and try to help you get better to show good pictures. Look at the pictures from Ask4Me2. They look great. But that projector was calibrated by Per Jonny and me before Ask4Me2 got it. 
And that will also help on all the aspects in the picture you get from the camera.

What I have done is to open your shot side by side with another shot zoomed inn and just taken a screencap. Just to illustrate. You can do the same thing, with same result as I.
And what I wrote that you got bombed massive is true when comparing the screenshot you posted, and will be with all the others also when using that camera.


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## Dj Dee

Here you see what the camera do in your last posted shot. You can also get this if its a very small file, but then you see the pixels.
I know you don't have this on screen.
But its the camera adding stuff. That's why I say use another camera or test with different cameras.


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> If you have read what I write. I say that you need to change camera.



This is beyond stupid..


The file size starts out after I post it on the forum, as 127KB... after you get finished messing it up, it ended up being 1,107KB that would be 8 times it's original size. pause right here and think about this. You can't see how the files size change would affect the image?


Are you trying to convince that your voodoo screenshot science allows you do anything whatever to a file and it not change the structure and quality of the image outcome?


And lets say, the camera was the issue, would it make sense to use a file from a camera that was used to capture an image and then put it in comparison to a shot you think the camera is OK, and then make this statement:


"If you don't see that you have huge amount of errors in your pictures I hope you see now"


Hey, but that is the same camera you gave thumbs up to a few pages back, to you now saying it needs to be replaced..





Why don't you stay away from trying to be Mr Magic the Screenshot expert and leave people images alone, since you won't except that you cannot make a science out of this foolishness. 



Just leave the shots alone and stop letting people use you to make others shots look bad. Just leave the shots alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Here you see what the camera do in your last posted shot.
> I know you don't have this on screen.
> But its the camera adding stuff. That's why I say use another camera or test with different cameras.



Can somebody try and explain to this guy that whenever you ZOOM in on an image especially to the degree that he does it the image WILL DISTORT. It will distort because yo are breaking up the true nature of the image..




Again, an originally posted JPEG image at 82K in size converted to a PNG 867K in size and then zoomed. and he says it's the camera............................


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Can somebody try and explain to this guy that whenever you ZOOM in on an image especially to the degree that he does it the image WILL DISTORT. It will distort because yo are breaking up the true nature of the image..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, an originally posted JPEG image at 82K in size converted to a PNG 867K in size and then zoomed. and he says it's the camera............................


Now you really need to cool down. What you write here just is just bull**** trust me. 
So instead of making a complete fool out of yourselves stop.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Can somebody try and explain to this guy that whenever you ZOOM in on an image especially to the degree that he does it the image WILL DISTORT. It will distort because yo are breaking up the true nature of the image..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, an originally posted JPEG image at 82K in size converted to a PNG 867K in size and then zoomed. and he says it's the camera............................


ow you really need to cool down. What you write here just is just bull**** trust me. 
So instead of making a complete fool out of yourselves stop.


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> ow you really need to cool down. What you write here just is just bull**** trust me.
> So instead of making a complete fool out of yourselves stop.





Question for thought.. lets look at this slowly in hopes of you catching on to science. Taking a 127K file and zooming it to a 1,107K frame, in comparison to taking a 1,107K file and zooming it to 1,107K frame would have a drastic effect of mostly degrading which one of the two?


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Question for thought.. lets look at this slowly in hopes of you catching on to science. Taking a 127K file and zooming it to a 1,107K frame, in comparison to taking a 1,107K file and zooming it to 1,107K frame would have a drastic effect of mostly degrading which one of the two?


Mike this is to illustrate. Don't take it so personally. You can do the same thing zooming yourselves on your original, just as I did and just took a screencap. Move on Mike...


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## mp20748

Ok, I'll move on...




It's only a 97KB file size. But that;s what happens after I post it to Postimage sight


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Ok, I'll move on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's only a 97KB file size. But that;s what happens after I post it to Postimage sight



Why do you upload so small files?


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Why do you upload so small files?



This is the size of that life when it was uploaded: 

. 

3.80 MB (3,993,943 bytes)


And that's its present size in the folder


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## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> This is beyond stupid..
> 
> 
> The file size starts out after I post it on the forum, as 127KB... after you get finished messing it up, it ended up being 1,107KB that would be 8 times it's original size. pause right here and think about this. You can't see how the files size change would affect the image?
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince that your voodoo screenshot science allows you do anything whatever to a file and it not change the structure and quality of the image outcome?
> 
> 
> And lets say, the camera was the issue, would it make sense to use a file from a camera that was used to capture an image and then put it in comparison to a shot you think the camera is OK, and then make this statement:
> 
> 
> "If you don't see that you have huge amount of errors in your pictures I hope you see now"
> 
> 
> Hey, but that is the same camera you gave thumbs up to a few pages back, to you now saying it needs to be replaced..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you stay away from trying to be Mr Magic the Screenshot expert and leave people images alone, since you won't except that you cannot make a science out of this foolishness.
> 
> 
> 
> Just leave the shots alone and stop letting people use you to make others shots look bad. Just leave the shots alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, Mike, you must learn to not jump off a cliff whenever you clearly havent learnt about things or understand them fully. Like screencaps and posted screenshots.

When I open and download the uploaded screenshot in question I get the full size of it. It depends on what browser u use. I have to open it in another tab, then enlarge it, and the open it in anonter new tab, and then you have the full size of it.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> This is the size of that life when it was uploaded:
> 
> .
> 
> 3.80 MB (3,993,943 bytes)
> 
> 
> And that's its present size in the folder


Really? 


This happens when you don't press keep original size in postimg.

And a total different post. T


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## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> Hey, Mike, you must learn to not jump off a cliff whenever you clearly haven't learnt about things or understand them fully. Like screencaps and posted screenshots.
> 
> When I open and download the uploaded screenshot in question I get the full size of it. It depends on what browser u use. I have to open it in another tab, then enlarge it, and the open it in anonter new tab, and then you have the full size of it.


Thanks, been trying to speak to a stone now for many posts, he should say i'm sorry.


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## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> Hey, Mike, you must learn to not jump off a cliff whenever you clearly havent learnt about things or understand them fully. Like screencaps and posted screenshots.
> 
> When I open and download the uploaded screenshot in question I get the full size of it. It depends on what browser u use. I have to open it in another tab, then enlarge it, and the open it in anonter new tab, and then you have the full size of it.





Really, so there is a mystery here that seems to be irrelevant when looking at it as it realy is (face value) in comparison. 



Now concerning jumping off a cliff. why would you apply that to me, when DJ confirmed that he also saw the file being small, meaning he had not checked before doing his comparison. With that, don't you think DJ should have been the one jumping off the cliff by not making sure first the comparison was equitable, before posting his findings?


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## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> Spent the past hour or so doing a quick focus tweaking and also tried to do a quick color balance, but the gain stage is still a problem..


This is the screenshot he used for comparison. It is 3.4mb in size.


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## Per Johnny

mp20748 said:


> Really, so there is a mystery here that seems to be irrelevant when looking at it as it realy is (face value) in comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> Now concerning jumping off a cliff. why would you apply that to me, when DJ confirmed that he also saw the file being small, meaning he had not checked before doing his comparison. With that, don't you think DJ should have been the one jumping off the cliff by not making sure first the comparison was equitable, before posting his findings?


See my previous post. It is for the screenshot that you posted and Dj Dee used for comparison, and it is still uploaded as full size at 3.4mb, so here you are totally wrong and I dont understand what you are complaining about.

If you got a proper calibration and properly adjusted white and black level, and used a good camera that dosent add any significant processing then your screenshots would be very good.


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## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> This is the screenshot he used for comparison. It is 3.4mb in size.


Trid to explain.


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## mp20748

Per Johnny said:


> This is the screenshot he used for comparison. It is 3.4mb in size.





That is not the shot used in comparison, it was from the Baraka BD. The mine scene..


The shot you post may show full after you posted it, but that's not how I post them. In fact that one shows as 84KB. and to prove my point ALL of my shots are smaller, as DJ indicated. Not sure what's going on with the shots, but for sure when reading the info on them, what it shows is consistent with the size of them, meaning also that all my shot are smaller... check it out for yourself, it's easy to see that they are. Smaller means they are smaller in size. Unlike anything DJ post, and that's why I kept wondering why he keeps doing a comparisons of a small image to a larger one. Or a full rez to a down rez..


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## Dj Dee

Per Johnny said:


> This is the screenshot he used for comparison. It is 3.4mb in size.


Correct he might missed that. The file I use is the full file on the right. 3,28MB 4288x2416
And it looks like this zooming inn on the picture. 

Here you see what the "camera" do in your last posted shot. You can also get this if its a very small file, but then you see the pixels and picture fall apart.
I know you don't have this on screen.
But its the camera adding stuff. That's why I say use another camera or test with different cameras.


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## Dj Dee

Here a picture taken with my Iphone of the NX9, Just to explain that a Iphone is not the perfect camera to use. 

Zooming in you see the faults in the picture from the Iphone camera. That is not on the screen.


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## mp20748




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## ask4me2

Nice, did just the same with the two the fifth element BD i have here, one purchased in Norway and one from a trip to Las Vegas some years ago.

There are some notable differences between them, just look at this.
N

US

N

US

N

US


This is why i do not like using these disks for screenshots....


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## Dj Dee

Definitive, fun to see the difference remastered and not, THEN SCREENCAPS.
I removed my post.

If you have the time take some of the G90. So it can be compared to Mikes modded Marquee


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## ask4me2

Looks like the Norwegian BD version is the newest 2009 "restored" one, the other BD is form 2007.

Yes I will take some G90 shots of this later.


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## napos

This is the first remastered version that came out after the horrible MPEG2 original release:


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Fifth-Element-Blu-ray/456/


It is an all region Blu-ray so you can play it in any country.



There is a newer version, mastered in 4K, which I have not seen seen in person:


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Fifth-Element-Blu-ray/138634/


There is also an elusive Japanese release...


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## mp20748

Interesting... the US version looks more like my BD, while the N version looks more like a cap to me. Anyway they are clearly different.


My cameras (all three of them) tends to boost colors, which should make for a good selling feature, because these cameras do not have an accuracy requirement. A boost of colors, much like what they do with demo material I'm sure is a part of the design.


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## napos

Avoid this MPEG2 version at all cost:


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Fifth-Element-Blu-ray/23/

The Superbit DVD is better that this!


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## mp20748

Back to my original neck boards..


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## Dj Dee

This is both your pictures MP.

Do you see the difference?



Your last posted pictures give a false look, plastic look and the other one natural. 

The picture to the left is the first picture in your last post. On the right a picture from some time back, both modded with the newest as you write. That is the camera you should use, because it shows your CRT more clean.
*Remember same amount zoom*


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## mp20748

It's not the same camera you used both, but it is the same camera that you said is the one you like. amd the same one I've been mostly using and you never said anything about before, so maybe it's because it's zoomed in so mush. Or because you are still converting it from jpeg to png and that the file size is converted from 113KB to 726KB during the process.


In all that it has gone through, I would say it koos about normal, or how anything would look when zoom in and and went through so much conversion.


Yep, same camera mostly used this year and last so far..


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> It's not the same camera you used both, but it is the same camera that you said is the one you like. amd the same one I've been mostly using and you never said anything about before, so maybe it's because it's zoomed in so mush. Or because you are still converting it from jpeg to png and that the file size is converted from 113KB to 726KB during the process.
> 
> 
> In all that it has gone through, I would say it koos about normal, or how anything would look when zoom in and and went through so much conversion.
> 
> 
> Yep, same camera mostly used this year and last so far..


Then start to use it, because you get fake sharpness one the one you use now.
The one to the right. You see that its natural.

And again, it has nothing to do with file or converted. If you zoom in on your original you see the same. Enough with this nonsense.


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## mp20748

When I zoom in using Postimage, it dosn't change at all. But I can see that it does look a little rough without zooming, when looking at it close up. So maybe it could be that the camera is beginning to distort the image when the image is bloomed in. But all I can say is, it's the same camera you like and said I should use.



But seeing my file blow up in file sizing about 700% from it's original state. I would say it should look maybe even worse.



Oh considering that I shoot my shoys furthest away from the screen rather than being right at the screen...but thinking about this, it's still in he same spot I've always used it in.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> When I zoom in using Postimage, it dosn't change at all. But I can see that it does look a little rough without zooming, when looking at it close up. So maybe it could be that the camera is beginning to distort the image when the image is bloomed in. But all I can say is, it's the same camera you like and said I should use.
> 
> 
> 
> But seeing my file blow up in file sizing about 700% from it's original state. I would say it should look maybe even worse.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh considering that I shoot my shoys furthest away from the screen rather than being right at the screen...but thinking about this, it's still in he same spot I've always used it in.


You zoom in using post image? hehe And saying this: (((But seeing my file blow up in file sizing about 700% from it's original state. I would say it should look maybe even worse. ))) You still don't understand anything.

The image i cut away the black bars as usual, no point in seeing that.. So you should go closer to the screen when taking the shots. 
Open it on your computer you see. If you don't know how to do that forget it.

Ask your selves this.
1. Do you want to show good pictures posted ?
2. Do you want to use a camera that don't tamper with your picture
3. Do you want to understand why your pictures don't look good.
4. Do I not see that the camera I use now make my pictures look plastic?


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## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> to do that forget it.
> 
> Ask your selves this.
> 1. Do you want to show good pictures posted ?
> 2. Do you want to use a camera that don't tamper with your picture
> 3. Do you want to understand why your pictures don't look good.
> 4. Do I not see that the camera I use now make my pictures look plastic?



Well, when I look back over the past two months at least, and the many times you either clicked the like bottom or your many great to good comments you've posted. I'm now confused as to what you're talking about... same camera, setup, etc..


Do I want to take good pictures. Could you do yourself a favor and look back through the many years I've been posting shots, and simply ask yourself, do this guy really care about taking things to another level. And what you'll find there would be that I don't care. I'm not that concerned about jumping through hoops to make the shots appear better. My posting is based on "what you see is what you get" or you draw your own conclusion. And add to that, I'm not selling or promoting anything. So If it wasn't a concern when I was selling mods, why be concerned now.


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## Dj Dee

mp20748 said:


> Well, when I look back over the past two months at least, and the many times you either clicked the like bottom or your many great to good comments you've posted. I'm now confused as to what you're talking about... same camera, setup, etc..
> 
> 
> Do I want to take good pictures. Could you do yourself a favor and look back through the many years I've been posting shots, and simply ask yourself, do this guy really care about taking things to another level. And what you'll find there would be that I don't care. I'm not that concerned about jumping through hoops to make the shots appear better. My posting is based on "what you see is what you get" or you draw your own conclusion. And add to that, I'm not selling or promoting anything. So If it wasn't a concern when I was selling mods, why be concerned now.


That is totally fine, and many times I just watch the photos on my phone.
On a computer you see things more clean. I cant tell you what to do, but you should change camera.

This camera I like of the one you have * OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA SZ-15,DZ-100* saw this was used on many I liked.

This is one then on the right. And the OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA SZ-15,DZ-100 was used. Also see that most of the likes are from that camera. 
I really hope you see why I say this.

If I liked some of the others was seen on my phone.


----------



## thewolfman

I like the darker skinned colored guy with the roses better, the paler one looks sort of artificial to me. But I guess one can have both skin-types? Anyway, at my workplace we a lot of colored guys there, and one woman, and they all have Eddie Murphy skin-tone.


----------



## Dj Dee

thewolfman said:


> I like the darker skinned colored guy with the roses better, the paler one looks sort of artificial to me. But I guess one can have both skin-types? Anyway, at my workplace we a lot of colored guys there, and one woman, and they all have Eddie Murphy skin-tone.


You talk about the different BD disks of fifth Element i guess.
I have only the US version on disk.


----------



## mp20748

Ok, DJ, I'll try the Olympus camera later, after sun leaves the sky. 



Man, you are without doubt, the most persistent person I know of, that would be after my wife I must say. She just like you, when I say no or I'm not going to do something, it's like her mind hears just the opposite..


----------



## mp20748

The shots here are using the Olympus camera DJ


----------



## Dj Dee

Better pictures for shore. No more plastic look. 
No more added ****.


----------



## mp20748

Dj Dee said:


> Better pictures for shore. No more plastic look.
> No more added ****.



Ok, you were right on this one..


This Olympus camera is the smallest and quite complicated to work with. I noticed I had the to compression to "Fine" so I changed that to "Normal" and then did a full reset. The compression remained on "Normal" afterwards. Now I have to play with it more. The shots I took are 4:3 and I'm a little too lazy to do the crop thing right now, so I'll these few more shots more as-is


----------



## Dj Dee

Here corped. Just black bars removed.










Here you also see, that nothing else is done. Only removed black bars. And wont effect the picture at all.


I don't want to be hard on you, I just say it how it is. Direct, but fact. Good that you also see it.

Now the only thing that is irritating is your burned spot in the tubes.


----------



## rboster

Since there are half dozen members that are active in this thread and 3 of them can't get along....I'm going to close this thread. My apologies to the other three members. We've received more report posts for a thread that has zero activity vs the average thread. 

We may reopen in the future, but for now it's closed.


----------

