# Sticky  List of TV Shows with Wider than 16:9 Aspect Ratios



## Josh Z

This thread contains a running list of TV series with aspect ratios wider than 16:9.

*IMPORTANT UPDATE*: The needs of maintaining this list, converting to PDF, and uploading to this thread has become an unwieldy burden. Effective Sept. 1, 2022, the list has been moved to a permanent, regularly-updated web page of its own. You may find it at this link. All future updates will be made at that site.

Notes:


This list contains television series and miniseries of three episodes or more. It does not include theatrical features or TV movies of less than three parts. For example, the HBO documentary Leaving Neverland has only two parts and is not on the list.
All series are listed under the network or streaming platform where they debuted in the United States. Some programs may appear on other networks internationally. See notes when available. It is beyond the scope of this list to track every streaming platform that may carry shows after initial broadcast.
Although most HBO original series stream on HBO Max, HBO Max originals do not air on HBO. Programs are categorized by the platform from which they originate.
Some of the aspect ratio numbers may be approximate. I have not been able to measure all of them precisely.
In general, shows from 2.35:1 to 2.40:1 are categorized as "2.35:1."
Most of the aspect ratio numbers were determined by viewing the shows' trailers. However, trailers are not always accurate as to how episodes of a show will actually look. I have found many instances where trailers are standard 16:9 while the show is actually letterboxed or vice versa, as well as conflicting trailers for the same series. If errors are detected, please comment in the thread.
Although it's still incredibly rare for modern TV series to be photographed in aspect ratios narrower than 16:9, a few of those are tracked here as well, as they seem of related interest. However, the many decades' worth of vintage 4:3 TV shows from before the HDTV era are well beyond the scope of this list.
Last updated: 1/9/2023

Recent additions (newest first):

Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies - Paramount+
Mayfair Witches - AMC
Alert - Fox
Freeridge - Netflix
Murder in Big Horn - Showtime
The Consultant - Amazon Prime
Upright - Sundance Now
Gannibal - Hulu
Big Bet - Hulu
Live to Lead - Netflix
The Climb - HBO Max
Coach Prime - Amazon Prime
Murderville ("Who Killed Santa?" special) - Netflix
Accused - Fox
Super League: The War for Football - Apple TV+
Alpha Males - Netflix
Connect - Hulu
Paul T. Goldman - Peacock
Madoff: The Monster of Wall Street - Netflix
Treason - Netflix
Daisy Jones & the Six - Amazon Prime
I Hate Suzie - HBO Max
La Última - Hulu
Wolf Pack - Paramount+
Gen V - Amazon Prime


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## CAVX

As much as I am glad to see wider than 1.78:1, it is almost sad to know that it is the shape of the phone screen that pushed this change, not advancements in large screen displays. 

Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk


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## dschulz

Dark (Netflix) - 2.0:1

The show is *really* good, too. It's in German (you can watch either dubbed or in the OV with English subtitles), and it shares tone with both Stranger Things and Twin Peaks.


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> Dark (Netflix) - 2.0:1


Thanks. I've added it to the first post.


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## magi1500

Hey Josh, that’s correct that Star Trek Discovery season 1 is 2:1. But season 2 that premieres in January as well as the four “short treks” shorts will be scope.


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## impetigo

Master of None (Aziz Ansari) is scope I think, no season 3 yet though.
Westworld is mostly 16x9 but has some scenes I think in scope.


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## Josh Z

Added Master of None and The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina to the list.



impetigo said:


> Westworld is mostly 16x9 but has some scenes I think in scope.


Westworld is 99.99% a 16:9 show, which occasionally has a scene or two that will switch to scope. It has never had an entire episode wider than 16:9, and cannot be watched in CIH.


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## ScottAvery

Bah, 2.2 for The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina (Netflix) is right in the dead zone that I' never hit on my CIH system. I'm still deciding on final height but given my throw I would have to go down to about 49 inches high to hit 2.2, and that is just too small for me.


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## markmon1

Doctor Who (2005) Season 11 is now 2:1 aspect. Seasons 1-10 are all 16:9.
The First (2018) Hulu? is 2:1 aspect
Titans (DC) is 2:1 aspect.
The Handmaid's Tale is 2:1 aspect starting season 2.
Impulse (2018) Youtube Red is 2:1 aspect


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## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> Bah, 2.2 for The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina (Netflix) is right in the dead zone that I' never hit on my CIH system. I'm still deciding on final height but given my throw I would have to go down to about 49 inches high to hit 2.2, and that is just too small for me.



I've only watched the first episode, but I don't think you'd miss anything important cropping to 2.35:1.


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## dschulz

The Haunting of Hill House (2018, Netflix Originals) is 2.0:1 (please double-check me on that - the sudden arrival of Sabrina at 2.2 has me second-guessing).


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> Added Master of None and The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina to the list.


2.20 is a really interesting creative choice. I rather doubt Sabrina, as good as it is, was shot in Super Panavision...


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## magi1500

Forever (Amazon Prime show) is scope.


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> The Haunting of Hill House (2018, Netflix Originals) is 2.0:1 (please double-check me on that - the sudden arrival of Sabrina at 2.2 has me second-guessing).



IMDb says 1.78:1, but I just queued up the first episode and it definitely has some small letterboxing. Not as much as Sabrina. Looks about the same as Altered Carbon.


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## BruceJK

*Godless*

Godless (Netflix) is 2.35:1 and it really has some scenes that exploit the wider format - great cinematography.


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## Josh Z

Patriot on Amazon is a weird situation. Season 1 was 16:9. Season 2 is 2.35:1, except for each episode's opening credits, which are 4:3 pillarboxed and extend the full height of the frame. If not for that, the episodes would be CIH. I added blanking to mask off the top and bottom, and fortunately the credits footage still looks OK and all text is visible within the 2.35:1 safe area.

Also, I removed Legion from the list. Although the show plays with aspect ratio, it's primarily 16:9 and can't be watched in CIH, which was the intent of the list.


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## shivaji

One thing I have been noticing for some time now, is that quite a few commercials are now shown in a 2:35 format, in which I delay hitting the 30 second skip button and say, Cool.  Then the 16x9 show resumes, boring. I would prefer it, the other way around. Perhaps like you Josh, I want more 2:35 shows.

On another note, just because I can easily flip back and forth between 2:35 and 16x9, I sometimes watch football in the 2:35 format, I think it looks a lot cooler that way, gets rid of the stats at the bottom and fills the screen with the action.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Do we have a list going for TV shows narrower than 16:9 that are of the modern era? Or changing AR’s?
> 
> The Homecoming on Amazon is a changing AR between 16:9 and 1:1.


No, and I don't see the point of it. Those shows do not meaningfully affect the forum topic of Constant Image Height projection. Shows with changing ARs like Legion or American Gods cannot be watched in CIH. They are effectively 16:9 shows that occasionally black out part of the frame. Same with Homecoming and its scenes shot in portrait layout. 

I'm not aware of any other modern-era shows deliberately shot narrower than 16:9. If those exist, they'd function no differently than any legacy 4:3 content.


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## Brian Hampton

I don't watch much TV shows but I was thrilled to see many 2.33 music videos. 

I have a family subscription to Apple Music and most of Lana Del Ray's music videos are 2.33

I think there are other music video also in scope... I have seen several commercials in scope when I do watch TV.
(Off hand I don't remember .. I try to ignore commercials ..but they do exist frequently in scope ratio.)

-Brian


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## Buckeye Dave

Yellowstone on the Paramount Network is 2.0:1.


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## Josh Z

Aside from the opening credits, season 1 episode 6 ("Panorama") of The Romanoffs on Amazon is 2.35:1. Even foreign language subtitles are safely contained within the 2.35:1 image. Other episodes are standard 16:9.

Legion (FX) and American Gods (Starz) play around with aspect ratio a lot. I'm pretty sure that one and/or both of them have had selected episodes entirely in scope 2.35:1, but I wasn't tracking that info when I watched them. If anyone can confirm any full-CIH episodes from these shows, I will add them back to the list.


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## Josh Z

I'm putting Nightflyers down as 2.0:1, but it looks perhaps slightly less letterboxed than some of the other 2.0:1 shows on this list. Maybe 1.85:1 or 1.90:1? I would need a good screencap to measure exactly.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> It’s filmed with the RED Weapon 8K Dragon VistaVision camera and its native AR is 1.89:1.


That may be the camera's AR, but it doesn't confirm what the final product has been matted to.



> My guess if you are seeing black bars is it is 1.89. The same as LieMAX. I haven’t seen the show do you think it is intended to have LieMAX immersion levels?


The show has very small letterbox bars. If you want to call that "immersive," you go right ahead.


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## magi1500

Hey Josh!

Escape at Dannemora (Showtime series) is Scope. 

best,
brian


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## Josh Z

magi1500 said:


> Escape at Dannemora (Showtime series) is Scope.



Thanks. I wasn't familiar with that one at all.


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## Josh Z

For what it's worth, the "Choose Your Own Adventure" Black Mirror: Bandersnatch movie is letterboxed (IMDb says 2.20:1), but the interactive pop-up options are in the lower letterbox bar, which prevents it from being watched in CIH.


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## Josh Z

Added Project Blue Book. It's about 2.0:1.


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## Josh Z

Added: Sex Education (Netflix)


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## MaxTemp

Tell Me A Story is scope. First episode was slightly narrower, second episode 2.35 aspect ratio.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7695916/


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## Josh Z

Added Russian Doll.


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## Josh Z

Some more 2.0:1 shows added: Kingdom, A Discovery of Witches, Hanna.


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## magi1500

Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008-2013) was 2.35. It was often aired cropped to 1.78 in the U.S. but all Blu-Ray releases were 2.35 for seasons 1 through 5 plus “The Lost Missions”. Lost Missions were essentially unaired season 6 episodes. Disney is bringing the show back for their upcoming streaming service but the AR of those upcoming episodes is unknown. 

I wonder if this was the first TV show finished scope?


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## Josh Z

Added The Umbrella Academy. At this point, it's probably a fair assumption that any new Netflix drama series will very likely be at least 2.0:1. Has Netflix launched any standard 16:9 shows recently?


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> Added The Umbrella Academy. At this point, it's probably a fair assumption that any new Netflix drama series will very likely be at least 2.0:1. Has Netflix launched any standard 16:9 shows recently?


I've not looked too deeply into this, but it seems their animated children's shows are mostly 16:9. Trollhunters (and the sequel season Legends of Arcadia, with another sequel coming soon) and Voltron, both Netflix Originals produced by DreamWorks animation were 16:9.


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## Josh Z

It's not a series, so I'm not going to add it to the list, but I think it's worth noting that HBO's Leaving Neverland documentary is letterboxed to an aspect ratio of 2.35:1. This is kind of a breakthrough for the "No Black Bars Ever" network.

What I did add to the list are a couple of recent Amazon shows: White Dragon and The Widow.


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## ScottAvery

Saw the first few episodes of Impulse (already reported at 2.0:1) and thought it was pretty good. Dark and disconcerting, but so were the books. Will probably wait for season 2 before subscribing.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> At this point, it's probably a fair assumption that any new Netflix drama series will very likely be at least 2.0:1. Has Netflix launched any standard 16:9 shows recently?


Well, The Order is 16:9. Guess they haven't fully committed to wider ratios.


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## Josh Z

Couple new Netflix shows added: Turn Up Charlie and Love, Death + Robots.

I try to check out new shows of interest when I notice them, but it's not possible for me to keep up with every new streaming series.


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## MaxTemp

The Handmaids Tale season two is 2:1 aspect ratio.
Season one is 16:9


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## Josh Z

MaxTemp said:


> The Handmaids Tale season two is 2:1 aspect ratio.
> Season one is 16:9


Was already on the list. Thanks, though.


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## MaxTemp

Josh Z said:


> Was already on the list. Thanks, though.



Yep, Im blind


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## Josh Z

MaxTemp said:


> Yep, Im blind


No worries. I don't subscribe to Hulu, so if you find any other original shows on there (other than Handmaid's Tale and The First) that are wider than 16:9, please let us know.


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## Josh Z

Spent a little time last night sampling shows on Amazon. Goliath is kind of a big title (no pun intended) we missed on this list. 

Made in Heaven also has the very odd choice of a 2.20:1 aspect ratio.


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## MaxTemp

Into The Dark https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8427140/
2.0:1 Aspect Ratio, latest episode so far (Episode 7) was 2.35:1


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## Josh Z

MaxTemp said:


> Into The Dark https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8427140/
> 2.0:1 Aspect Ratio, latest episode so far (Episode 7) was 2.35:1


Thanks. I've added it to the list.

Note that this Hulu series should not be confused with the CW network's 'In the Dark', which is a traditional 16:9 show.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> It's not a series, so I'm not going to add it to the list, but I think it's worth noting that HBO's Leaving Neverland documentary is letterboxed to an aspect ratio of 2.35:1. This is kind of a breakthrough for the "No Black Bars Ever" network.


With Gentleman Jack, HBO officially has a series with a wider than 16:9 ratio. Must be a regime change at the network to allow this.


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## Mark12547

Chernobyl (HBO 5-part miniseries, 2019) - by my measurements, Aspect Ratio of the first episode is *2.0:1*, not the 16:9 that IMDB says it is.


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## Josh Z

Mark12547 said:


> Chernobyl (HBO 5-part miniseries, 2019) - by my measurements, Aspect Ratio of the first episode is *2.0:1*, not the 16:9 that IMDB says it is.


Thanks. I'm not sure how I feel about including miniseries on the list, but I'll add it for now. I suppose it's not much different from a show that only runs one season.


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## Josh Z

I sampled a bunch of shows on Netflix to check their aspect ratios. The following were added to the list:

Chambers (another weird 2.20:1 show like Sabrina)
Dead to Me
Huge in France
The Innocents
Narcos: Mexico (the original Narcos is 16:9)
The Rain

Netflix has so many original series these days that I'm sure I'm still missing a bunch.


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## Josh Z

I've just reorganized the list to sort by network or streaming provider. I think this makes it easier to read and to find shows. Looking at it this way, it's pretty clear that Netflix is leading the charge to produce shows at wider aspect ratios.


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> I've just reorganized the list to sort by network or streaming provider. I think this makes it easier to read and to find shows. Looking at it this way, it's pretty clear that Netflix is leading the charge to produce shows at wider aspect ratios.


Strange Angel on CBS All Access is wider than 16:9 (even though IMDB lists it, incorrectly, as 16:9). To my eye it doesn't look quite as letterboxed as 2.0:1, maybe someone can measure to confirm. May be 1.85 or 1.9.

Also - it's a great show!


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> Strange Angel on CBS All Access is wider than 16:9 (even though IMDB lists it, incorrectly, as 16:9). To my eye it doesn't look quite as letterboxed as 2.0:1, maybe someone can measure to confirm. May be 1.85 or 1.9.


Thanks. I found a screencap online that measures about 1.9:1.

I suspect that some of the other shows I rounded to 2.0:1 on this list probably fall closer to 1.85:1 or 1.9:1 as well, but short of screencaps it's difficult to measure.


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## Josh Z

I saw a teaser ad for The CW's upcoming Batwoman show that was about 2.0:1. Whether the show itself will be that ratio is yet to be confirmed.


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## Josh Z

I went hunting through Netflix again and added a bunch more shows:

Black Summer
Crime Diaries: Night Out
Crime Diaries: The Candidate
Dating Around
Losers
Lunatics
Northern Rescue
Osmosis
The Protector
Quicksand
The Society
Special
Travelers
You

A few of these are only 1.85:1. Weirdly, Dating Around is a Reality show with a ratio of 2.35:1. Not sure what the point of that is.


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## Josh Z

Looks like HBO is moving toward 2.0:1 more and more. Deadwood: The Movie uses that ratio. I haven't added it to the list because it's not a series.


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> Looks like HBO is moving toward 2.0:1 more and more. Deadwood: The Movie uses that ratio. I haven't added it to the list because it's not a series.


I was surprised to see that, as Deadwood the series was of course 16:9.


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## Josh Z

Good Omens on Amazon - 2.35:1.
Swamp Thing on DC Universe - 2.20:1.


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## DuaneAA

Josh Z said:


> Good Omens on Amazon - 2.35:1.
> Swamp Thing on DC Universe - 2.20:1.


 Josh,
I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you do keeping this thread up to date. It is a useful reference. I think if people want to discuss why different aspect ratios were chosen, there are other places for it. As Joe Friday would say 'Just the facts, ma'am.'


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## puddy77

Josh Z said:


> Good Omens on Amazon - 2.35:1.
> Swamp Thing on DC Universe - 2.20:1.


Doom Patrol on DC Universe is also 2.20:1


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## Josh Z

puddy77 said:


> Doom Patrol on DC Universe is also 2.20:1


Thanks! I don't subscribe, so this is very helpful.

I did some more digging through Amazon and Netflix last night and added the following:

Fleabag
High Seas
How to Sell Drugs Online (Fast)
It's Bruno!
Killer Ratings
Malibu Rescue
Tales of the City

Fleabag and Tales of the City are kind of notable titles.


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## Josh Z

Added The ABC Murders and Too Old to Die Young (both Amazon).


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## Josh Z

I don't know whether Netflix's miniseries-ization of Tarantino's The Hateful Eight really qualifies as a "TV show," exactly. But it's four episodes, which is nearly as many as Chernobyl, so I put it on the list. 

Assuming you believe it qualifies, we have a new record for widest aspect ratio at 2.76:1.


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## MDesigns

Netflix Star Trek Discovery is 2.0:1 first season and 2.35:1 second season.

Lähetetty minun SM-G930F laitteesta Tapatalkilla


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## Josh Z

MDesigns said:


> Netflix Star Trek Discovery is 2.0:1 first season and 2.35:1 second season.



That's on the list under CBS All Access, which is where the show streams in the U.S. I'll add a note that it's on Netflix in other countries. Thanks.


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## DuaneAA

The Boys on Amazon Prime is 2.39:1.


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## Josh Z

DuaneAA said:


> The Boys on Amazon Prime is 2.39:1.



Thanks. I've just added that, plus Another Life on Netflix.


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## Josh Z

The second season of The OA has been available for a few months, but I'm just getting around to watching it now. 

Season 1 was entirely 16:9 as far as I remember. Season 2 is kind of a mess for aspect ratios. 

Ep. 1 - 2.20:1
Ep. 2 - 2.20:1 except for the final scene, which opens up to 16:9 
Ep. 3 - Entirely 16:9
Ep. 4 & 5 - Back to 2.20:1
Ep. 6 - 16:9
Ep. 7 & 8 - 2.20:1

It's possible there may be some other varying-ratio scenes that I haven't picked up on yet. This is all very frustrating to watch on a 2.35:1 screen.


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## dschulz

Two Sentence Horror Stories, now airing on the CW network, is 2.00:1.

This is the first broadcast network show I can remember seeing in 2.00:1.


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> The second season of The OA has been available for a few months, but I'm just getting around to watching it now.
> 
> Season 1 was entirely 16:9 as far as I remember. Season 2 is kind of a mess for aspect ratios.
> 
> Ep. 1 - 2.20:1
> Ep. 2 - 2.20:1 except for the final scene, which opens up to 16:9
> Ep. 3 - Entirely 16:9
> Ep. 4 & 5 - Back to 2.20:1
> Ep. 6 - 16:9
> Ep. 7 & 8 - 2.20:1
> 
> It's possible there may be some other varying-ratio scenes that I haven't picked up on yet. This is all very frustrating to watch on a 2.35:1 screen.


I wonder what possible logic there could be from the creatives to do this? 

If my screen were large enough I'd almost be tempted to just watch this in 16:9 mode and let the wider ratios be letterboxed (which is how it will be presented for the 99% of watching on TVs or tablets). But it's malpractice on the part of the show runners.


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## bud16415

dschulz said:


> I wonder what possible logic there could be from the creatives to do this?
> 
> If my screen were large enough I'd almost be tempted to just watch this in 16:9 mode and let the wider ratios be letterboxed (which is how it will be presented for the 99% of watching on TVs or tablets). But it's malpractice on the part of the show runners.


But it is TV. The creators are making a show to be enjoyed on TV sets and tablets. There is no malpractice it is up to us projector viewers to adapt some standard that suits our tastes for this media if we want to watch it. 

I have said 100 times and been told 1000 that TV has no place or standing in CIH movie presentation. It is its own unique thing to be presented as the viewer likes best. In my case with a stealth screen wall I like this media sized a little larger than network TV and a little smaller than 1.85 cinema. If the image flip flops back and forth between 2.20 and 1.77 I don’t even notice it as there is no fixed frame of reference.


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## dschulz

bud16415 said:


> But it is TV. The creators are making a show to be enjoyed on TV sets and tablets. There is no malpractice it is up to us projector viewers to adapt some standard that suits our tastes for this media if we want to watch it.
> 
> I have said 100 times and been told 1000 that TV has no place or standing in CIH movie presentation. It is its own unique thing to be presented as the viewer likes best. In my case with a stealth screen wall I like this media sized a little larger than network TV and a little smaller than 1.85 cinema. If the image flip flops back and forth between 2.20 and 1.77 I don’t even notice it as there is no fixed frame of reference.


I'll always be ride or die for CIH, but Bud's got a point on this one. An episodic show that changes AR between or even within episodes is probably best represented on a Bud-style as-you-wish system.


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> If my screen were large enough I'd almost be tempted to just watch this in 16:9 mode and let the wider ratios be letterboxed (which is how it will be presented for the 99% of watching on TVs or tablets).


You know, I tried that. But the show also has frustrating photography with flat contrast and elevated black levels (even in supposed HDR). It looks pretty terrible floating in the middle of my scope screen with darker black bars all around.

It's a no-win scenario.


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> I wonder what possible logic there could be from the creatives to do this?



It seems that there is some purpose to it. The story takes place across two alternate dimensions, and the aspect ratios indicate the transition from one to the other. Which then makes sense why all of the first season was 16:9.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> It seems that there is some purpose to it. The story takes place across two alternate dimensions, and the aspect ratios indicate the transition from one to the other. Which then makes sense why all of the first season was 16:9.


We can only hope they write in a third Alternate Dimension into the story line. Wouldn’t it be awesome if it was filmed Academy 1.375:1. 

So far ARs have been sticking to rectangles a few are rectangles with the corners rounded off. I’m ready to see some other shapes. Also they seem to be dragging their feet on AR transitions. Why not more blending than the sudden switches? I always loved the Bond film openings where they had him in a round iris moving around the screen with swirls of red and black. Now I know those are not ARs but in today’s digital world of these TV shows especially what really is AR anymore? Pixels can be turned off in any arrangement the director likes and we get to see what is left. In The old days directors had to be cleaver in how they got such things on the film, but today it is as simple as photo-shop. So if part of the screen is filled with black it is the AR of the shot. If it adds anything to the movie or TV show is a matter of artistic interpretation. All I’m certain of is the director wasn’t planning for us to mask what is black or resize it in any meaningful way. It is just shapes on a 16:9 canvas that is TV.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> We can only hope they write in a third Alternate Dimension into the story line. Wouldn’t it be awesome if it was filmed Academy 1.375:1.


Netflix canceled the show. No more dimensions. 



> So far ARs have been sticking to rectangles a few are rectangles with the corners rounded off. I’m ready to see some other shapes. Also they seem to be dragging their feet on AR transitions. Why not more blending than the sudden switches? I always loved the Bond film openings where they had him in a round iris moving around the screen with swirls of red and black. Now I know those are not ARs but in today’s digital world of these TV shows especially what really is AR anymore?


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Netflix canceled the show. No more dimensions.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwkB6wAxNVM


That’s what I’m talking about. I forgot about that one it was very Brady Bunch. 

Really we live in a world of windows these days. Masking has always been hard. In a movie the director might be giving it some thought, but in the world of TV it has never been a concern of the directors. 

As to Netflix canceling a show, never say never.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> It seems that there is some purpose to it. The story takes place across two alternate dimensions, and the aspect ratios indicate the transition from one to the other. Which then makes sense why all of the first season was 16:9.


I finished watching the show last night. The last episode is mostly 2.20:1, but the final scene transitions to 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

I don't subscribe to Hulu. IMBb claims that the anthology series Dimension 404 is 2.0:1. Can someone who subscribes verify that? Is that the case for all episodes, or just selected episodes?

Is there anything else on Hulu that the list is missing?


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## Josh Z

Just added a whole bunch of titles under Netflix. Kind of disappointed that nobody pointed out to me that GLOW was missing from the list.


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## puddy77

Josh Z said:


> I don't subscribe to Hulu. IMBb claims that the anthology series Dimension 404 is 2.0:1. Can someone who subscribes verify that? Is that the case for all episodes, or just selected episodes?
> 
> Is there anything else on Hulu that the list is missing?


Yes, it's 2:1. All episodes.


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## Josh Z

I've added a section for Disney+. The trailer for The Mandalorian is 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

Added Carnival Row and The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance.


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## Josh Z

Netflix's The Spy measures 2.10:1. I noticed that it was slightly different than The Dark Crystal at 2.20:1. It's possible that some of the other titles on my list that I have as 2.20 may actually be closer to 2.10, but I don't have the time to validate all of them all over again (much less to pixel count to make sure none of them are something like 2.15:1).

What's going on at some of these post-production facilities that so many shows are winding up with so many different non-standard aspect ratios? How does the decision even get made that a series will be 2.10:1?


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> What's going on at some of these post-production facilities that so many shows are winding up with so many different non-standard aspect ratios? How does the decision even get made that a series will be 2.10:1?


It’s maddening for sure. Not much different than prior to 1970 we had 2.35 and now we have 2.39 that most wrongly call 2.35 or 2.40. 

As your Title calls these TV shows wider than 16:9 even though most watch them shorter than 16:9. Some, even many IMO live up to the wider definition but there are some I think really should play shorter as they are just TV pretending to impress with a wide screen feel. That’s all up to the viewer to decide as to how they work into their presentation method. As this is the CIH forum I guess here they are all wider. 

Just out of curiosity are you setting up presets for all these ratios and then consulting the list before watching a show and selecting the proper AR? 

Is there software that will detect the AR of an image and then automatically expand the height for CIH making the proper adjustments? That might be what is needed in the future if it’s not here already.


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Just out of curiosity are you setting up presets for all these ratios and then consulting the list before watching a show and selecting the proper AR?


I have programmed zoom presets into my projector for 16:9, 1.85:1, 2.0:1, 2.10:1, 2.20:1, and 2.35:1 so far.



> Is there software that will detect the AR of an image and then automatically expand the height for CIH making the proper adjustments?


The Lumagen Radiance Pro will do this, but it uses scaling to adjust the image. It's intended to be used with either an anamorphic lens or a fixed 2.35:1 zoom.


----------



## noblkkat

Josh Z said:


> I have programmed zoom presets into my projector for 16:9, 1.85:1, 2.0:1, 2.10:1, 2.20:1, and 2.35:1 so far.
> 
> 
> 
> The Lumagen Radiance Pro will do this, but it uses scaling to adjust the image. It's intended to be used with either an anamorphic lens or a fixed 2.35:1 zoom.



THANK YOU so much for listing your presets.


----------



## Josh Z

noblkkat said:


> THANK YOU so much for listing your presets.



There's at least one show on this list (Strange Angel) confirmed to measure 1.9:1, but that's so close to 1.85:1 that it didn't seem worth making a preset for. (Also, I don't subscribe to CBS All Access yet anyway.)


----------



## Josh Z

The list continues to grow. I make updates to it regularly when scanning through Netflix and Amazon original programming. Many are shows I've never heard of.

The I-Land and Unbelievable on Netflix are new series at 2.0:1. Free Meek on Amazon is 2.20:1.


----------



## Josh Z

If anyone here is a subscriber to CBS All Access, could you confirm the aspect ratio for Why Women Kill? Thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

We have our first major broadcast network show with an aspect ratio wider than 16:9: Prodigal Son on Fox.


----------



## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> If anyone here is a subscriber to CBS All Access, could you confirm the aspect ratio for Why Women Kill? Thanks.


Why Women Kill appears to be 2.39:1 (I didn't measure, but it's definitely fully widescreen); but unfortunately for CIH setups the (very cool) opening title sequence is full screen 16:9.


----------



## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> Why Women Kill appears to be 2.39:1 (I didn't measure, but it's definitely fully widescreen); but unfortunately for CIH setups the (very cool) opening title sequence is full screen 16:9.


Thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

Batwoman confirmed as 2.0:1. Well, I'm putting it down as that, but a tiny sliver of picture overshot the 2.0:1 zoom preset on my projector, yet was decidedly wider than 1.85:1. It may be something like 1.95:1, but it's hard to measure without a good screenshot.


----------



## dschulz

dschulz said:


> Two Sentence Horror Stories, now airing on the CW network, is 2.00:1.
> 
> This is the first broadcast network show I can remember seeing in 2.00:1.


Season Finale turned out to be 2.39:1.


----------



## Josh Z

The USA Network gets in the wider-than-16:9 game with Treadstone.


----------



## dschulz

Nancy Drew on The CW is 2.00:1.


----------



## MaxTemp

Goliath Season 3 is 2.35:1


----------



## Josh Z

This list is updated constantly. New additions include Living with Yourself on Netflix and Limetown on Facebook Watch.


----------



## Josh Z

New addition (among others): Daybreak on Netflix. 

I also just discovered that Nailed It! is 1.85:1. My wife primarily watches that one on a bedroom TV with some overscan, so I never noticed.

Finally, I added a section to the bottom of the list for shows with scene-to-scene variable aspect ratios. They're not Constant Height safe, but I figure they're of interest to CIH viewers.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The USA Network gets in the wider-than-16:9 game with Treadstone.


Purge season 2 as well, unsure on the aspect ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Purge season 2 as well, unsure on the aspect ratio.



Thanks. Both of these USA shows appear to have an oddball ratio of about 1.95:1.


----------



## johnhelvete

The CW's All American, both seasons (went back and checked the pilot). Likely 2.00:1?


----------



## Josh Z

Is anyone planning to subscribe to Apple TV+? I've added a section to the list for that with preliminary info based on the available trailers. It's looks like they'll have three shows wider than 16:9, but I could use confirmation of those and others.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Is anyone planning to subscribe to Apple TV+? I've added a section to the list for that with preliminary info based on the available trailers. It's looks like they'll have three shows wider than 16:9, but I could use confirmation of those and others.


Sounds like each series has 1-2 free episodes available.


----------



## johnhelvete

johnhelvete said:


> Sounds like each series has 1-2 free episodes available.


Mr Inbetween (FX). Both seasons. 2.00:1?


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Mr Inbetween (FX). Both seasons. 2.00:1?


Hmm, interesting. I watched a couple episodes of the first season and don't recall noticing that it was wider than 16:9 at the time, but the trailers I'm finding on YouTube do measure 2.0:1.


----------



## ScottAvery

Josh Z said:


> Is anyone planning to subscribe to Apple TV+? I've added a section to the list for that with preliminary info based on the available trailers. It's looks like they'll have three shows wider than 16:9, but I could use confirmation of those and others.


I got the free year with an Apple TV I got for Disney +. I'll run a few minutes of each when I get a moment.

edit: Ghostwriter is 2.0 and The Elephant Queen is 1.9, but I don't think the latter will be a continuing series.


----------



## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> Ghostwriter is 2.0 and The Elephant Queen is 1.9, but I don't think the latter will be a continuing series.



Not to doubt you, but could you double check Ghostwriter? The trailers on YouTube are exactly 16:9.












Elephant Queen seems to be a movie, so I don't think I'll add that to the list.


----------



## ScottAvery

Josh Z said:


> Not to doubt you, but could you double check Ghostwriter? The trailers on YouTube are exactly 16:9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elephant Queen seems to be a movie, so I don't think I'll add that to the list.


The first episode of Ghostwriter was exactly the same as Morning Show, which I assumed that was correctly measured at 2.0. I was watching on a TV, not my CIH screen; the letterboxing was obviously intentional. I'll try more episodes to confirm.

Dickinson and Snoopy were 16x9


----------



## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> The first episode of Ghostwriter was exactly the same as Morning Show, which I assumed that was correctly measured at 2.0. I was watching on a TV, not my CIH screen; the letterboxing was obviously intentional. I'll try more episodes to confirm.
> 
> Dickinson and Snoopy were 16x9



OK, thanks. I'll add it to the list for now. This could just be a case of the trailer being open-matte. Let me know what you find with subsequent episodes.


----------



## ScottAvery

Josh Z said:


> OK, thanks. I'll add it to the list for now. This could just be a case of the trailer being open-matte. Let me know what you find with subsequent episodes.


Clicked through the other episodes of Ghostwriter and they were all 2.0:1. I also confirmed that See was indeed about 2.1:1 and For all Mankind and Morning Show are 2.0:1, as you measured on trailers.


----------



## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> Clicked through the other episodes of Ghostwriter and they were all 2.0:1. I also confirmed that See was indeed about 2.1:1 and For all Mankind and Morning Show are 2.0:1, as you measured on trailers.


I appreciate you checking all these out.

Disney+ launches soon, but I should be able to sample that myself with a one-year free trial though my Verizon account.


----------



## Josh Z

I went through all of the Disney+ original series. Aside from The Mandalorian (2.35:1), the rest of their original shows are all 16:9.

I don't think it would be fair to call Pixar SparkShorts a TV series. It's just a collection of short films, many of which played theatrically in front of Disney or Pixar features. Of those currently available, most are 16:9. However, Lava (which originally played with Inside Out) is 2.35:1. I don't think I'm going to add this to the list.

Edit: Kitbull and 'Smash and Grab' are also scope.


----------



## ScottAvery

Josh Z said:


> I went through all of the Disney+ original series. Aside from The Mandalorian (2.35:1), the rest of their original shows are all 16:9.
> 
> I don't think it would be fair to call Pixar SparkShorts a TV series. It's just a collection of short films, many of which played theatrically in front of Disney or Pixar features. Of those currently available, most are 16:9. However, Lava (which originally played with Inside Out) is 2.35:1. I don't think I'm going to add this to the list.


Take a look at the Legend of the Three Caballeros. It is something odd, maybe 1.9:1or 1.95:1. Perhaps underscanned a little as well. Seems to be a one and done 13 episode series, though, so maybe not worthy of the list.


----------



## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> Take a look at the Legend of the Three Caballeros. It is something odd, maybe 1.9:1or 1.95:1. Perhaps underscanned a little as well. Seems to be a one and done 13 episode series, though, so maybe not worthy of the list.


I missed that one but will take a look this weekend. I have other miniseries and limited series on the list, so no reason not to include that one. Thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

ScottAvery said:


> Take a look at the Legend of the Three Caballeros. It is something odd, maybe 1.9:1or 1.95:1. Perhaps underscanned a little as well. Seems to be a one and done 13 episode series, though, so maybe not worthy of the list.



This looks to be 1.85:1 to me. Weird choice for a young kids' cartoon.


----------



## Josh Z

Amazon calls The Kasey Musgraves Christmas Show a "series" and it's listed as episode 101, but I can't find any confirmation that there will be more episodes. It looks like more of a one-off special, but I'll add it to the list for now.


----------



## johnhelvete

Flack (Pop) renewed for season 2. Trailers for the show are indicative of the aspect ratio for season 1 (2.35:1?)

Reprisal (Hulu) I dont have Hulu but the trailers appear to be (2.35:1?)

Looks like all three new CW series this year are 2.0:1 based on the trailers for Katy Keene, premieres early February.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Flack (Pop) renewed for season 2. Trailers for the show are indicative of the aspect ratio for season 1 (2.35:1?)
> 
> Reprisal (Hulu) I dont have Hulu but the trailers appear to be (2.35:1?)
> 
> Looks like all three new CW series this year are 2.0:1 based on the trailers for Katy Keene, premieres early February.



Much appreciated.


----------



## johnhelvete

Another day another Netflix show. October Faction (Jan 23) trailer appears to be 1.85:1.


Not sure where you are going to list the FX branded on Hulu shows, Devs (March 5) trailer 2.0:1.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Another day another Netflix show. October Faction (Jan 23) trailer appears to be 1.85:1.
> 
> Not sure where you are going to list the FX branded on Hulu shows, Devs (March 5) trailer 2.0:1.


Thanks. I'm putting Devs under Hulu, since that's where it will actually air and not on FX.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Thanks. I'm putting Devs under Hulu, since that's where it will actually air and not on FX.


That makes perfect sense to me. 

Mrs America (April 15/Hulu). I am pretty sure this one is 2.0:1 as well.


----------



## Josh Z

I'm just glad people are finding this list useful.


----------



## johnhelvete

A few more.

High Fidelity (Feb 14/Hulu) trailer is 2.0:1. TV series based on the Nick Hornby book and 2000 Cusack film.

Breeders (Mar 2/FX) 2.0:1. Also based on the trailer.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> A few more.
> 
> High Fidelity (Feb 14/Hulu) trailer is 2.0:1. TV series based on the Nick Hornby book and 2000 Cusack film.
> 
> Breeders (Mar 2/FX) 2.0:1. Also based on the trailer.


I will add these to the list for now, pending confirmation. Unfortunately, trailers aren't always accurate with regard to aspect ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

Medical Police makes the list. I expected that to be standard 16:9 like Childrens Hospital.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I will add these to the list for now, pending confirmation. Unfortunately, trailers aren't always accurate with regard to aspect ratio.


Yeah that is something I had considered. Or in the case of the upcoming series Briarpatch (USA), that the pilot could be 2.35:1, while the rest of the episodes 2.0:1. 

Speaking of confirmation, having watched the first two episodes of Dare Me (USA), the 2.0:1 ratio listed here is correct.


----------



## dschulz

*The Witcher*

The Witcher, on Netflix, is (as one would expect) 2.00:1.

Good show.


----------



## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> The Witcher, on Netflix, is (as one would expect) 2.00:1.


Was already on the list, thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

No surprise, but Star Trek: Picard is confirmed as 2.35:1.


----------



## Josh Z

I signed up for a free trial of CBS All Access in order to catch the premiere of Picard, and have discovered that The Good Fight switched to 2.35:1 in Season 3.


----------



## Josh Z

I got mislead by the trailers for HBO's docuseries McMillions. The trailers are constant 2.20:1, but the actual show has a variable ratio that switches between 16:9 and 2.20:1 (for no apparent reason), with some vintage 4:3 clips mixed in.


----------



## johnhelvete

I Am Not Okay With This (Netflix) Feb 26. Trailer is 1.85:1


Freeform *might* have their first wider than 16:9 series. Motherland (premiere date March 18). You may want to wait until the series premieres before adding to the list, the tv promos are mostly in 16:9 but the official full length trailer is 2.0:1.


----------



## Shawn Kelly

Josh Z said:


> I'm just glad people are finding this list useful.


We will certainly be spreading the word through our channels and linking to this thread 

Some of these shows have incredible production values and the difference watching them in a 2.4:1 theater is substantial. Carnival Row came immediately to mind.


----------



## Josh Z

I find myself looking at this ever-growing list and feeling that a lot of shows are getting lost in the clutter. My eyes kind of glaze over when scanning down the long column of Netflix titles.

I am considering breaking up and reorganizing the list to sort shows into aspect ratio groups within each network/provider, rather than straight alphabetical. Would anyone find this helpful, or would it just make the list more confusing? Admittedly, it does get tricky when shows change aspect ratios between seasons.

For example:

*Amazon Prime Video*

Too Old to Die Young - 1.85:1

The ABC Murders - 2.0:1
The Feed - 2.0:1
Goliath - 2.0:1 (seasons 1-2)
Hanna - 2.0:1
Modern Love - 2.0:1
Ordeal by Innocence - 2.0:1
Picnic at Hanging Rock - 2.0:1
The Tick - 2.0:1 (all episodes except pilot)
Tin Star - 2.0:1
Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan - 2.0:1 (starting season 2) 
Transparent - 2.0:1
White Dragon - 2.0:1
The Widow - 2.0:1

Free Meek - 2.20:1
The Kasey Musgraves Christmas Show - 2.20:1
Made in Heaven - 2.20:1

The Boys - 2.35:1
Carnival Row - 2.35:1
Fleabag - 2.35:1
Forever - 2.35:1
Goliath - 2.35:1 (starting season 3)
Good Omens - 2.35:1
Patriot - 2.35:1 (season 2; opening credits are 4:3)
The Romanoffs - 2.35:1 (episode 1.06; opening credits are 16:9)
Star Trek: Picard (UK streaming)** - 2.35:1
The Tick - 2.35:1 (pilot episode only)
Tokyo Alice - 2.35:1


----------



## thrillcat

Perhaps make it a linked Google doc spreadsheet that could be sorted by AR, provider, title, etc, based on how the user would like to view it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> I find myself looking at this ever-growing list and feeling that a lot of shows are getting lost in the clutter. My eyes kind of glaze over when scanning down the long column of Netflix titles.
> 
> I am considering breaking up and reorganizing the list to sort shows into aspect ratio groups within each network/provider, rather than straight alphabetical. Would anyone find this helpful, or would it just make the list more confusing? Admittedly, it does get tricky when shows change aspect ratios between seasons.


Instead of lists a database would be the way to do it. Then sorts could be done on any field. 

Of course I just enjoy them as they come so I don’t get curious of the AR until I’m done watching it. I just click on IMDb type in a few letters of the title click on the show, click on more, click on tech. specs. and all the info is there. 95% of the time that gives me tons of information.


----------



## Josh Z

thrillcat said:


> Perhaps make it a linked Google doc spreadsheet that could be sorted by AR, provider, title, etc, based on how the user would like to view it?


Interesting idea. I prefer a text list for readability, especially in a forum post, but I might consider also making an additional spreadsheet. However, the problem then becomes the extra time it takes to maintain both.


----------



## thrillcat

Josh Z said:


> Interesting idea. I prefer a text list for readability, especially in a forum post, but I might consider also making an additional spreadsheet. However, the problem then becomes the extra time it takes to maintain both.




I think that even if you maintained it as a spreadsheet instead of an evolving list, regardless of how you post it, it would make things easier for you. 

Keep a spreadsheet on your computer.
Sort by AR, copy paste into a forum post.
Sort by network, copy paste into a forum post.
Sort by alpha, copy paste into forum post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I find myself looking at this ever-growing list and feeling that a lot of shows are getting lost in the clutter. My eyes kind of glaze over when scanning down the long column of Netflix titles.
> 
> I am considering breaking up and reorganizing the list to sort shows into aspect ratio groups within each network/provider, rather than straight alphabetical. Would anyone find this helpful, or would it just make the list more confusing? Admittedly, it does get tricky when shows change aspect ratios between seasons.
> 
> For example:
> 
> *Amazon Prime Video*
> 
> Too Old to Die Young - 1.85:1
> 
> The ABC Murders - 2.0:1
> The Feed - 2.0:1
> Goliath - 2.0:1 (seasons 1-2)
> Hanna - 2.0:1
> Modern Love - 2.0:1
> Ordeal by Innocence - 2.0:1
> Picnic at Hanging Rock - 2.0:1
> The Tick - 2.0:1 (all episodes except pilot)
> Tin Star - 2.0:1
> Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan - 2.0:1 (starting season 2)
> Transparent - 2.0:1
> White Dragon - 2.0:1
> The Widow - 2.0:1
> 
> Free Meek - 2.20:1
> The Kasey Musgraves Christmas Show - 2.20:1
> Made in Heaven - 2.20:1
> 
> The Boys - 2.35:1
> Carnival Row - 2.35:1
> Fleabag - 2.35:1
> Forever - 2.35:1
> Goliath - 2.35:1 (starting season 3)
> Good Omens - 2.35:1
> Patriot - 2.35:1 (season 2; opening credits are 4:3)
> The Romanoffs - 2.35:1 (episode 1.06; opening credits are 16:9)
> Star Trek: Picard (UK streaming)** - 2.35:1
> The Tick - 2.35:1 (pilot episode only)
> Tokyo Alice - 2.35:1


Breaking up the list like this is a tad easier to read. If you do decide to keep the list alphabetical, have you thought of breaking things like by spacing between certain letter groups based on the size of each grouping?

Netflix

45RPM - 2.35:1
Abstract: The Art of Design - 2.35:1
Ad Vitam - 1.85:1
Altered Carbon - 2.0:1
Apache: The Life of Carlos Tevez - 1.85:1
Another Life - 2.0:1
Ares - 2.0:1
Baby - 1.80:1
Bad Blood - 2.0:1
Bard of Blood - 2.0:1
Basketball or Nothing - 1.85:1
Black Mirror - varies between seasons and/or episodes from 16:9, 1.90:1, 2.0:1, 2.20:1 or 2.35:1.
Black Spot - 2.0:1
Black Summer - 2.0:1
Bolivar - 1.85:1
The Bonfire of Destiny - 2.35:1
Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner - 2.35:1
Brotherhood (Irmandade) - 2.0:1

Cable Girls - 2.0:1
Chambers - 2.20:1
Chef's Table - 2.0:1
Chief of Staff - 2.35:1
The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina - 2.20:1
Chosen - 2.0:1
The Chosen One - 2.0:1
The Club - 2.0:1
Collateral - 2.35:1
College Romance - 2.35:1
The Confession Tapes - 1.85:1
Crime Diaries: Night Out - 2.0:1
Crime Diaries: The Candidate - 1.85:1
The Crown - 2.0:1

Dark - 2.0:1
The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance - 2.20:1
Daybreak - 2.0:1
Dating Around - 2.35:1
Dead to Me - 2.0:1
The Degenerates - 1.85:1
Derry Girls - 2.0:1
Don't F**k with Cats: Hunting an Internet Killer - 2.35:1
Elite - 2.0:1
Engineering Girls - 2.35:1
Exhibit A - 2.0:1
The Family - 2.0:1
Family Business - 2.0:1
Friends from College - 2.0:1

The Gift (Atiye) - 2.0:1
Giri / Haji - 2.0:1
Girls Incarcerated: Young and Locked Up - 1.85:1
GLOW - 2.0:1
Go! Live Your Way - 1.85:1
Godless - 2.35:1
The Good Bandit - 1.85:1
Green Frontier (Frontera Verde) - 2.0:1

The Hateful Eight: Extended Version - 2.76:1
The Haunting of Hill House - 2.0:1
High Seas - 2.0:1
Historical Roasts - 1.85:1
The Hockey Girls - 2.0:1
Holiday Secrets - 2.0:1
Home for Christmas - 2.0:1
The Hookup Plan - 2.0:1
House of Cards - 2.0:1
How to Sell Drugs Online (Fast) - 2.0:1
Huge in France - 2.0:1
Hyperdrive - 2.10:1

I Am a Killer - 2.0:1
I Am Not Okay with This - 1.85:1
The I-Land - 2.0:1
I'm with the Band: Nasty Cherry - 1.85:1
The Inbestigators - 2.0:1
Inmates - 2.35:1
The Innocents - 2.0:1
Inside Bill's Brain: Decoding Bill Gates - 1.85:1
It's Bruno! - 1.85:1
Jailbirds - 2.0:1
Jamtara: Sabka Number Ayega - 2.35:1
Jinn - 1.85:1

Killer Ratings - 2.0:1
Kingdom - 2.0:1
The Kominsky Method - 1.90:1
The Last Czars - 1.85:1
Little Things - 1.85:1 (starting season 3)
Living Undocumented - 2.0:1
Living with Yourself - 2.0:1
Locke & Key - 2.0:1
Losers - 2.0:1
Lost in Space - 2.0:1 (season 1), 2.20:1 (starting season 2)
Love Alarm - 2.0:1
Love, Death + Robots - 2.0:1
Luis Miguel: The Series - 2.0:1
Luna Nera - 2.0:1
Lunatics - 1.85:1

Magic for Humans - 1.85:1
Malibu Rescue - 2.0:1
Maniac - 2.35:1 (some scenes have subtitles in the letterbox bar)
Marco Polo - 2.0:1
Marianne - 2.0:1
Master of None - 2.35:1
Medical Police - 2.0:1
Medici - 2.0:1
Messiah - 2.0:1
Mindhunter - 2.20:1
Monarca - 2.0:1
Mortel - 2.0:1
My Country: The New Age - 2.20:1
My First First Love - 2.0:1
My Holo Love - 2.0:1
Nailed It! - 1.90:1
Narcos: Mexico - 2.0:1
Neighbor - 2.0:1
No Time for Shame - 1.85:1
Nobody's Looking - 2.0:1
Northern Rescue - 2.0:1
Nowhere Man - 2.0:1

The OA - 2.20:1 (episodes 2.01, 2.04, 2.05 & 2.07; see variable ratio notation below)
Occupied - 2.0:1
October Faction - 1.85:1
Omniscient - 2.0:1
Osmosis - 2.0:1
Ozark - 2.0:1
Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak - 1.85:1
Paquita Salas - varies episode to episode from 1.85:1, 2.0:1, and 2.20:1 (possibly more)
The Pharmacist - 2.20:1
Pine Gap - 2.0:1
The Politician - 2.20:1
The Protector - 2.0:1
Quicksand - 1.85:1

Ragnarok - 2.0:1
The Rain - 2.0:1
Raising Dion - 2.0:1
Rhythm + Flow - 1.85:1
The Road to Love (Los Briceno) - 1.85:1
Romance Is a Bonus Book - 1.80:1
Rookie Historian Goo Hae-Ryung - 2.0:1
Rotten - 1.85:1
Russian Doll - 2.0:1
Sacred Games - 2.0:1

Safe - 2.35:1
A Series of Unfortunate Events - 2.0:1
Sex Education - 2.0:1
Skylines - 2.0:1
The Society - 1.85:1
Soundtrack - 2.0:1
Special - 2.0:1
Spinning Out - 2.0:1
The Spy - 2.10:1
Star Trek: Discovery (international streaming)* - 2.0:1 (season 1), 2.35:1 (starting season 2)
The Stranded - 1.85:1
The Stranger - 2.0:1
Stranger Things - 2.0:1
Street Food - 2.0:1
Suburra: Blood on Rome - 1.85:1
Taco Chronicles - 2.0:1

Tales of the City - 2.0:1
Thieves of the Wood - 2.0:1
Three Days of Christmas (Dias de Navidad) - 2.0:1
Top Boy - 2.0:1
Traitors - 2.0:1
Travelers - 2.0:1
Triad Princess - 1.85:1
Tunnel - 2.35:1
Turn Up Charlie - 2.0:1
Typewriter - 2.0:1
The Umbrella Academy - 2.0:1
Unbelievable - 2.0:1
Unnatural Selection - 2.35:1
Unrequited Love - 2.35:1
Virgin River - 2.0:1

We Are the Wave - 2.0:1
Yankee - 2.0:1
You - 2.0:1
Westside - 2.0:1
What the Love! - 1.85:1
When They See Us - 2.0:1
Who Killed Little Gregory - 2.0:1
Wild District - 2.20:1
The Witcher - 2.0:1
Wu Assassins - 2.0:1


----------



## Josh Z

I've put everything into a sortable Excel spreadsheet. How does this look? Anyone prefer this to the text version?


----------



## johnhelvete

Here are two notable March premieres, both international series. 

ZeroZeroZero (Amazon) on March 6. International co-production in multiple languages including English from Stefano Sollima (director of the Sicario sequel). Trailers appear to be 2.35:1 unless the series is in the oddball 2.20:1 ratio? 


Baghdad Central (Hulu) on Mar 27. Hulu acquired the series from Channel 4 in the UK. Trailers look 2.35:1.


----------



## osogovo

johnhelvete said:


> Here are two notable March premieres, both international series.
> 
> ZeroZeroZero (Amazon) on March 6. International co-production in multiple languages including English from Stefano Sollima (director of the Sicario sequel). Trailers appear to be 2.35:1 unless the series is in the oddball 2.20:1 ratio?
> 
> 
> Baghdad Central (Hulu) on Mar 27. Hulu acquired the series from Channel 4 in the UK. Trailers look 2.35:1.


I can confirm that Reprisal on Hulu is in 2.40:1 ratio.Just finished the last episode. Great show!


----------



## Killroy

This is not a TV show but the upcoming IFC "True History of the Kelly Gang (2020)" is a variable AR movie. It starts off 16:9 but gradually, and I mean very gradually, narrows down to an almost 2.55:1. Kinda cool effect.


----------



## Josh Z

Killroy said:


> This is not a TV show but the upcoming IFC "True History of the Kelly Gang (2020)" is a variable AR movie. It starts off 16:9 but gradually, and I mean very gradually, narrows down to an almost 2.55:1. Kinda cool effect.


Did this air on the IFC network or streaming? Wikipedia says it's an upcoming theatrical release.

I think this should go in the "List of Variable Aspect Ratio Movies" thread.


----------



## Killroy

Josh Z said:


> Did this air on the IFC network or streaming? Wikipedia says it's an upcoming theatrical release.
> 
> I think this should go in the "List of Variable Aspect Ratio Movies" thread.


It's scheduled for 4/20 on IFC Films VOD. Not sure of a US theatrical release unless they are doing limited release.

I did not see the VAR movie thread. Sorry about that.


----------



## Josh Z

Killroy said:


> I did not see the VAR movie thread. Sorry about that.


No worries. Looks like it dropped down a bit on the forum page. 

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/117-...ist-variable-aspect-ratio-movies-blu-ray.html

I've added this to the list of "Other (Non-IMAX) Variable Ratios Movies."


----------



## Josh Z

Showtime's Black Monday was a constant 2.35:1 series in season 1. Starting season 2, the show has made a frustrating decision to move to a variable ratio that switches between 2.35:1 for scenes in the "present day" (1988) and 4:3 for flashbacks. The 4:3 scenes extend the full height of the frame, into the scope letterbox bars, so the show is no longer Constant Height safe.


----------



## johnhelvete

Motherland: Fort Salem (Freeform) I can confirm it is 2.0:1. Unless it is in that odd 1.95:1 ratio.


----------



## dschulz

*Short Rant About Bugs*

Just a quick rant - posting here because I think those following this thread are the only 0.001% of viewers who would care...

I really wish broadcasters would bump their bugs up into the picture area (and out of the letterbox bars) when broadcasting shows that are wider than 16:9. Lookin' at you, CW. Having the bug spill down into the letterbox bars messes with the aesthetics of the widescreen presentation, and of course is problematic for anyone projecting onto a properly-masked screen.

I'm sure there is an infinitesimal number of people in the world projecting broadcast TV with the network bugs onto a screen, but still.

/rant


----------



## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> I really wish broadcasters would bump their bugs up into the picture area (and out of the letterbox bars) when broadcasting shows that are wider than 16:9. Lookin' at you, CW. Having the bug spill down into the letterbox bars messes with the aesthetics of the widescreen presentation, and of course is problematic for anyone projecting onto a properly-masked screen.


Or, better, shrink it down so that it's only in the letterbox bar and we can ignore it completely.

I've been watching Briarpatch on USA, which is a 2.35:1 show. The network bug is almost totally in the letterbox bar, except for the very tops of the letters, which intrude a little bit into the bottom of my screen. I find that very annoying.


----------



## bud16415

dschulz said:


> Just a quick rant - posting here because I think those following this thread are the only 0.001% of viewers who would care...
> 
> I really wish broadcasters would bump their bugs up into the picture area (and out of the letterbox bars) when broadcasting shows that are wider than 16:9. Lookin' at you, CW. Having the bug spill down into the letterbox bars messes with the aesthetics of the widescreen presentation, and of course is problematic for anyone projecting onto a properly-masked screen.
> 
> I'm sure there is an infinitesimal number of people in the world projecting broadcast TV with the network bugs onto a screen, but still.
> 
> /rant


Being in the .001% of the .001% that read this thread and have a screening system that allows for CIH and also IMAX, I have to say I haven’t noticed or been annoyed by seeing the full Bug partly on the image and or partly in the IMAX area and partly the image. It is the same for sub titles having a place for them to go is a benefit IMO when they are placed in the black bars. 

I have thought a lot about are these TV shows being non-movies actually wider than 16:9 or are they shorter than 16:9 as they would be more intended for the other .999% of the viewers. Despite the small percentage of viewers IMO they present well as assumed wider and like you I enjoy them that way. It is a logical follow thought process after you assume Prestige TV can be wider than TV to assume it can also be taller than TV as movies are out there taller than scope also. 

Although I haven’t watched “Black Monday” yet I think I will be able enjoy the TV show as Scope-like and also the flashbacks Academy-like even though they are not scope or academy movies. I play my Academy movies taller than CIH (scope/flat) now so it should present well for me. 

Also having screen area for the play/pause/time to display is nice when watching Prestige TV.


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Although I haven’t watched “Black Monday” yet I think I will be able enjoy the TV show as Scope-like and also the flashbacks Academy-like even though they are not scope or academy movies. I play my Academy movies taller than CIH (scope/flat) now so it should present well for me.


The 4:3 flashback scenes in Black Monday are meant to look like VHS on an old CRT TV. Have fun reconciling that with treating it like a classic Academy Ratio film projected in a movie palace.

Anyway, the season's third episode is constant 2.35:1 with no flashbacks.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> The 4:3 flashback scenes in Black Monday are meant to look like VHS on an old CRT TV. Have fun reconciling that with treating it like a classic Academy Ratio film projected in a movie palace.
> 
> Anywhere, the season's third episode is constant 2.35:1 with no flashbacks.


Sounds like the director made a grave error in judgment. As I mentioned I haven’t seen the show and I assumed the effect was used like it was in The Grand Budapest Hotel and a flashback to those years. You are correct if he wanted to flashback to 1950s TV he should have sized the image way down to look like a 19” 4:3 TV with rounded corners. 

I watch Perry Mason and Twilight Zone etc. in our media room all the time off of streaming sites. I size them down as far as my zoom allows. What would really be perfect if I could find an app / mask that framed the stream in an old Zenith console TV set with a lighted tuner. That would be retro.

Maybe I should float the idea with Netflix to give me the option to stream it that way.


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Sounds like the director made a grave error in judgment. As I mentioned I haven’t seen the show and I assumed the effect was used like it was in The Grand Budapest Hotel and a flashback to those years. You are correct if he wanted to flashback to 1950s TV he should have sized the image way down to look like a 19” 4:3 TV with rounded corners.


The show is set in the late 1980s. The flashbacks only go back a few years to the early 1980s.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> The show is set in the late 1980s. The flashbacks only go back a few years to the early 1980s.


1980 doesn’t seem that long ago. Parents rocked 25” floor consoles and the kids if lucky got a 19” portable for the bedroom. Most of them still had knobs. CRT screens were starting to flatten out and the image corners were more square. 

So ya a period correct size and shape for the flashback would be more convincing. Not the IMAX size you described. I do see the huge pixel size effect used a lot in movies and TV sometimes as a backdrop for the 60’s-70’s. 

All we can say is right or wrong it is what the director wanted.


----------



## johnhelvete

*HBO*
Run (Apr 12) 2.0:1
I Know This Much Is True (Apr 27) 2.0:1
The Third Day (May 11) 2.0:1

*Summer TBA*

Dirty John season 2 aka Dirty John:Betty (USA) 2.0:1 series moves from Bravo to USA for season 2

Coyote (Par Network) 2.0:1


----------



## Josh Z

The WGN America network has a new series called Almost Paradise premiering tonight. One of these trailers is standard 16:9 while the other is letterboxed to scope. If anyone watches this, can you confirm here what the actual aspect ratio is? I don't get that network in my cable package. Thanks.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The WGN America network has a new series called Almost Paradise premiering tonight. One of these trailers is standard 16:9 while the other is letterboxed to scope. If anyone watches this, can you confirm here what the actual aspect ratio is? I don't get that network in my cable package. Thanks.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZKhBRs3ZfQ
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUif6M8_eN8


WGN aired the first episode in the 16:9 ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

I do not plan to subscribe to the new streaming service Quibi that launches today. My understanding is that all of its original content is designed to instantaneously switch from landscape to portrait layouts when you rotate your phone, so I wouldn't expect anything to have an aspect ratio wider than 16:9. If anyone does check it out and finds something notable that should be added to this list, please let me know.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> I do not plan to subscribe to the new streaming service Quibi that launches today. My understanding is that all of its original content is designed to instantaneously switch from landscape to portrait layouts when you rotate your phone, so I wouldn't expect anything to have an aspect ratio wider than 16:9. If anyone does check it out and finds something notable that should be added to this list, please let me know.


It’s funny we have adapted Home Theater to include presentation modifications based around TV AR and now we will be adapting a cell phone media potentially to the big screen. 

I wonder if any of the Quibi directors have commented on how their productions will play with big screen immersion levels? I generally watch cell phone media at about 6X Screen Height immersion.


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> It’s funny we have adapted Home Theater to include presentation modifications based around TV AR and now we will be adapting a cell phone media potentially to the big screen.
> 
> I wonder if any of the Quibi directors have commented on how their productions will play with big screen immersion levels?


Quibi is only available for mobile devices. You cannot watch it on a TV or projector. 

The reports I've read state that all of Quibi's content is photographed almost exclusively in tight close-ups. When you rotate the phone to portrait layout, the rare two-shot of people will change to a split-screen with one person's face on top of the other.

There is zero intent for big screen immersion, unless you plan to set your phone on the bridge of your nose.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Quibi is only available for mobile devices. You cannot watch it on a TV or projector.
> 
> The reports I've read state that all of Quibi's content is photographed almost exclusively in tight close-ups. When you rotate the phone to portrait layout, the rare two-shot of people will change to a split-screen with one person's face on top of the other.
> 
> There is zero intent for big screen immersion, unless you plan to set your phone on the bridge of your nose.


I was just at the Quibi website and watched a few previews of their premium content on my monitor hosted at YouTube and could have easily ported it to the projector and it looked to me like the movies were framed and directed like any other made for TV movie. I understand it is a Phone only media and from what I’m reading the public finds that ridicules. People want to view where they want to view. I have watched IMAX epics on my phone also and if I’m stuck in an airport that might be the best I can do but without a work around IMO Quibi won’t be around long enough for us to list the ARs. Then again I’m wrong about most of these new cultural issues. 

I do agree I won’t be signing up for even 90 days free with the restriction of phone only. 

I only watched a few previews and I didn’t see the split screen stuff you mentioned, looked like regular TV to me.

https://www.cnet.com/news/quibi-bet-1-75-billion-youd-stream-on-the-go-then-the-pandemic-hit/


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> I was just at the Quibi website and watched a few previews of their premium content on my monitor hosted at YouTube and could have easily ported it to the projector


The previews were released to YouTube, but the full content is only available on the Quibi app, which is restricted to mobile devices.



> I understand it is a Phone only media and from what I’m reading the public finds that ridicules. People want to view where they want to view. I have watched IMAX epics on my phone also and if I’m stuck in an airport that might be the best I can do but without a work around IMO Quibi won’t be around long enough for us to list the ARs. Then again I’m wrong about most of these new cultural issues.
> 
> I do agree I won’t be signing up for even 90 days free with the restriction of phone only.


So far, it looks like Quibi is a big flop. Even with a free 90 day trial (which means that nobody has paid a cent to use it yet), the app only had 300,000 downloads at launch, which is about 7% of what Disney+ had on its first day.



> I only watched a few previews and I didn’t see the split screen stuff you mentioned, looked like regular TV to me.


Try turning your computer monitor sideways. I'm sure that will work.


----------



## Josh Z

Quibi dared Hollywood directors to make movies for phones. Who bit and what they learned

‘Turnstyle’ shooting

Veena Sud, whose Quibi thriller “The Stranger” debuts Monday, says she jumped at the chance to be part of what she calls “nothing short of a revolution in how we view film and TV content.” But that’s not to say the path forward was clear.

For Sud and the other filmmakers who jumped into the Quibi fray, the biggest challenge, visually speaking, was how to shoot something that can be watched as readily holding the phone vertically as horizontally, a feature that Quibi calls “Turnstyle.” Pulling that off required carefully planning every shot with an eye toward what would be in the frame in either orientation. In a vertical format, even simple dialogue scenes involving two characters talking to each other proved challenging.

“It took so much planning to figure out, how can I have conversations that don’t feel like a lot of information is missing?” says Sud of “The Stranger,” in which a Los Angeles rideshare driver (Maika Monroe) picks up a passenger (Dane DeHaan) who turns out to be a murderous psychopath. “We used every tool in the toolbox: We stacked the actors so one was in front of the other, we moved the camera, we bounced focal points back and forth, we used depth. We tried to really keep the visual experience engaging and not frustrating.”

Inevitably, though, cropping a shot vertically means losing key visual information, as any parent who has ever tried to shoot their kid’s school play or soccer game in portrait mode on their iPhone quickly discovers.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Quibi dared Hollywood directors to make movies for phones. Who bit and what they learned
> 
> ‘Turnstyle’ shooting


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fien-print/quibi-launch-premiere-reviews-1288094
But director Mark Pellington is one of the few artists to make aesthetic distinctions between the service's horizontal/vertical viewing orientations — one compositional, the other uncomfortably intimate — rather than just resorting to pan-and-scan.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/sophie-turner-game-of-thrones-quibi-survive-x-men-1234576425/
The platform’s elevator pitch says that users are able to view content horizontally and vertically, while still retaining full scope of the storytelling. This required “cross-shooting,” or several cameras capturing entire scenes at the same time to enable dynamic viewing.


----------



## bud16415

johnhelvete said:


> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fien-print/quibi-launch-premiere-reviews-1288094
> But director Mark Pellington is one of the few artists to make aesthetic distinctions between the service's horizontal/vertical viewing orientations — one compositional, the other uncomfortably intimate — rather than just resorting to pan-and-scan.
> 
> https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/sophie-turner-game-of-thrones-quibi-survive-x-men-1234576425/
> The platform’s elevator pitch says that users are able to view content horizontally and vertically, while still retaining full scope of the storytelling. This required “cross-shooting,” or several cameras capturing entire scenes at the same time to enable dynamic viewing.


This is a billion dollar risk by some billionaires that think they have their finger on the pulse of a changing society of media crazed viewers. My opinion is it will backfire and go the way of so many other gimmicks in media. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong, people may love watching movies on a tiny screen and flipping their wrists over and over to see a facial expression that on a normal screen you could see by darting your eyes to look at a face. My lag time will be too slow and by the time I flip the phone the next image I want to see in landscape will be showing. I will constantly wonder what I’m missing watching the close up, and wonder what I’m missing close up when I’m panning. 

I just don’t see Christopher Nolan getting excited to remake Dunkirk into a 10 minute Quibi.


----------



## johnhelvete

bud16415 said:


> This is a billion dollar risk by some billionaires that think they have their finger on the pulse of a changing society of media crazed viewers. My opinion is it will backfire and go the way of so many other gimmicks in media. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong, people may love watching movies on a tiny screen and flipping their wrists over and over to see a facial expression that on a normal screen you could see by darting your eyes to look at a face. My lag time will be too slow and by the time I flip the phone the next image I want to see in landscape will be showing. I will constantly wonder what I’m missing watching the close up, and wonder what I’m missing close up when I’m panning.
> 
> I just don’t see Christopher Nolan getting excited to remake Dunkirk into a 10 minute Quibi.


Not paying for Quibi either and it does not help that Quibi got cute calling their TV series "movies in chapters". Not when Quibi should have embraced the fact they are making short form TV series. I posted the links regarding Survive because of the different techniques, at least as far as I can tell, that the director utilized to take advantage of the turnstyle function. Not that I would want to view content in portrait.


----------



## johnhelvete

Cardinal (2017-2020)
Canada on CTV. Hulu in the US. 
2.0:1 all four seasons.


----------



## johnhelvete

Trailer roundup for a couple of upcoming series you might have missed. AKA there is a lot of TV.

Perry Mason 2.0:1 (HBO) limited series June 21.

Barskins 2.0:1 (Nat Geo) limited series May 25. 


Nat Geo joins Freeform, both now under the Disney umbrella, with series in the "streaming ratio". Considering the push Disney is giving for Hulu and that episodes are available on Hulu the next day for (FX, Freeform, Barskins since most Nat Geo is going to Disney+), the choice seems logical.


----------



## Josh Z

I'm having trouble editing the first post in this thread today for some reason, but Netflix's Space Force appears to be 2.20:1 from the trailer.


----------



## Mike Lang

Josh Z said:


> I'm having trouble editing the first post in this thread today for some reason


It says you edited it within the last hour. Are you getting an error message?


----------



## Josh Z

Mike Lang said:


> It says you edited it within the last hour. Are you getting an error message?


The edit I'm trying to make - adding Space Force to the Netflix list - isn't taking and I get the attached error. Tried on Chrome (both desktop and mobile) and IE.


----------



## Mike Lang

There's something about that post setting off a security flag when attempting any edit. Let's give it a day or two. Sometimes it just goes away. Otherwise I'll get the techs to dig into it.


----------



## Josh Z

Mike Lang said:


> There's something about that post setting off a security flag when attempting any edit. Let's give it a day or two. Sometimes it just goes away. Otherwise I'll get the techs to dig into it.


Thanks! Could it have something to do with the fact that I'd been attaching (and regularly replacing) a ZIP file with an Excel version of the list?


----------



## Mike Lang

Josh Z said:


> Thanks! Could it have something to do with the fact that I'd been attaching (and regularly replacing) a ZIP file with an Excel version of the list?


That could very well trigger it.


----------



## Josh Z

Mike Lang said:


> That could very well trigger it.


For what it's worth, I still get the error today even when I try to edit without attaching the ZIP file.

Going forward, I can post the spreadsheet at the end of the thread rather than attaching to the first post.


----------



## mrvideo

CAVX said:


> As much as I am glad to see wider than 1.78:1, it is almost sad to know that it is the shape of the phone screen that pushed this change, not advancements in large screen displays.


Reference proof for this statement. IMHO, it is the DCI 4K UHD cameras that have pushed the 2.0:1 with letterboxing.


----------



## Josh Z

mrvideo said:


> Reference proof for this statement. IMHO, it is the DCI 4K UHD cameras that have pushed the 2.0:1 with letterboxing.


Most of the shows on this list are shot at 2k. Both 2k and 4k cameras have a raw data aspect ratio of 1.89:1. It's been that way since the advent of digital cinematography, not a new development. There is an existing workflow to crop both to the standard 16:9 ratio, which is what almost every single show on the major broadcast networks do. 

The choice to letterbox is an artistic decision that has little to do with the camera used. The 2.0:1 aspect ratio that's become so prevalent is cropped on the top and bottom from what the camera captured.


----------



## Josh Z

Mike Lang said:


> There's something about that post setting off a security flag when attempting any edit. Let's give it a day or two. Sometimes it just goes away. Otherwise I'll get the techs to dig into it.


Still no go for me this morning. Dr. Don PM'ed me last night, so he's also looking at it.


----------



## mrvideo

Josh Z said:


> Most of the shows on this list are shot at 2k. Both 2k and 4k cameras have a raw data aspect ratio of 1.89:1. It's been that way since the advent of digital cinematography, not a new development. There is an existing workflow to crop both to the standard 16:9 ratio, which is what almost every single show on the major broadcast networks do.


I'm not disagreeing with what you say. The post was about the post saying that phones are the reason for the various cropping that we see. I wonder how many are actually being shot with 4K, or better, cameras. More and more shows are being released in 4K. Westworld is one of the few shows actually shot on film. but scan the film at 1080p. I don't know if that is what they did again this season.


----------



## Josh Z

mrvideo said:


> I'm not disagreeing with what you say. The post was about the post saying that phones are the reason for the various cropping that we see. I wonder how many are actually being shot with 4K, or better, cameras. More and more shows are being released in 4K. Westworld is one of the few shows actually shot on film. but scan the film at 1080p. I don't know if that is what they did again this season.


Honestly, I think he's right. As I said, the choice of aspect ratio is an artistic decision, not a technical one. In the case of 2.0:1, that decision may be driven by a desire to fit comfortably onto phone screens. 

Ratios wider than 2.0:1 are likely more about having cinematic prestige. A 2.35:1 show like Star Trek: Picard will look very small on a phone screen. But there's no theatrical standard for 2.0:1, and I doubt a show like Taco Chronicles is really concerned about being cinematic.


----------



## Josh Z

It appears that I've hit the forum software's limit for post length. As a result, I've had to delete most of the text in the first post. The aspect ratio list is attached to that post as a ZIP'ed Excel spreadsheet. Going forward, that will be the only version I update.


----------



## mrvideo

Josh Z said:


> Honestly, I think he's right. As I said, the choice of aspect ratio is an artistic decision, not a technical one. In the case of 2.0:1, that decision may be driven by a desire to fit comfortably onto phone screens.


Problem is, the 2.0:1 is still placed within the 16:9 video image that is distributed, so the phone will display it with letterboxing. Today's phones are meant to handle 16:9 just fine. At least my phone does (LG G6).


----------



## Josh Z

mrvideo said:


> Problem is, the 2.0:1 is still placed within the 16:9 video image that is distributed, so the phone will display it with letterboxing. Today's phones are meant to handle 16:9 just fine. At least my phone does (LG G6).


Many phones have screens wider than 16:9 and will automatically scale to fill the width, cropping the top and bottom of a 16:9 image. My Moto Z3 has a 2160x1080 (2:1) screen. That's pretty common. Your C6 may have a 16:9 screen, but LG also makes a number of 2:1 models including the Q6 and V40. The LG G8 even has a 3120x1440 screen (2.16:1).


----------



## markhyams

Dead to Me (Netflix) season 2 is 16x9.

Any chance this can be in a shared Google Sheet?

Zipping up a .xlsx file (which I can only open by uploading to Google Sheets) is so cumbersome.

Here's the file in my google sheets:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16zZtYJph0IRqSJTHD_fn9UOmArWqGpZW/view?usp=sharing


----------



## Josh Z

markhyams said:


> Dead to Me (Netflix) season 2 is 16x9.


That's so weird. Why would the show switch to 16:9 after starting as 2.0:1?



> Any chance this can be in a shared Google Sheet?


Unfortunately, I do most of my updates to this sheet from my work computer, and we're blocked from accessing Google Drive.


----------



## Josh Z

markmon1 said:


> The Handmaid's Tale is 2:1 aspect starting season 2.


I don't subscribe to Hulu, but Comcast is offering Handmaid's Tale as part of its "Watchathon Week". The show appears to have been 2.0:1 in season 1 also. Was it always that way, or did Hulu go back and revise the old episodes?


----------



## markhyams

Josh Z said:


> That's so weird. Why would the show switch to 16:9 after starting as 2.0:1?


Yeah, weird for sure. Hard to know why. Too bad, because I like the 2:1 format.


----------



## Josh Z

I'm finding conflicting trailers for the Hulu series Dollface. Some are 16:9 and some are letterboxed to 2.0:1. I don't subscribe to Hulu. Can anyone confirm?

Likewise, trailers for Ramy season 1 are 1.85:1 while those for season 2 are 16:9. Is that accurate?

Edit: I was mostly able to confirm this for myself. Comcast is offering a free trial of both shows as part of "Watchathon Week." Dollface is straight 16:9 while the first season of Ramy is very mildly letterboxed. Unfortunately, the second season of Ramy doesn't premiere until later this month.


----------



## Josh Z

Interesting to note that DC's Stargirl has a very wide 2.20:1 aspect ratio, at least the first episode does. The trailers were only 2.0:1. This is the widest I've seen on a broadcast network. I know the show was developed for DC Universe and technically premieres there first, but most of the audience is going to catch it on The CW.


----------



## johnhelvete

The Alienist: Angel of Darkness trailer is in 2.0:1. Which I believe will be a first for TNT and something I wish they had done for Snowpiercer.


----------



## Josh Z

From the trailers I've seen, it looks like all the HBO Max launch shows are standard 16:9. If anyone subscribes and finds otherwise, please post here. Thanks.


----------



## mrvideo

Josh Z said:


> Interesting to note that DC's Stargirl has a very wide 2.20:1 aspect ratio, at least the first episode does.


The first three are.


> I know the show was developed for DC Universe and technically premieres there first, but most of the audience is going to catch it on The CW.


Watching via The CW is not the best, as viewing via DCU provides longer episodes and commercial free (no breaks for commercials either).


----------



## Josh Z

mrvideo said:


> Watching via The CW is not the best, as viewing via DCU provides longer episodes and commercial free (no breaks for commercials either).


Perhaps true, but I have no interest in subscribing to DC Universe for anything else, and Stargirl alone is not compelling enough to justify the subscription.


----------



## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> From the trailers I've seen, it looks like all the HBO Max launch shows are standard 16:9. If anyone subscribes and finds otherwise, please post here. Thanks.


I was able to check out HBO Max this weekend. Contrary to the trailers, it turns out that Love Life is 2.0:1 and Legendary has a variable ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

The first season of Amazon's Hanna was 2.0:1. Trailers for the second season are 16:9.


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## Josh Z

The trailer for Showtime's upcoming Love Fraud is an extremely wide 2.56:1, which seems absurd for a docuseries. I would not be surprised if the trailer is overmatted for effect and the actual show has a more common ratio like 16:9 or 2.0:1.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> The first season of Amazon's Hanna was 2.0:1. Trailers for the second season are 16:9.


Another case of trailers lying. The second season of Hanna remains 2.0:1.


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## Hydra Spectre

TV series being wider than 16:9 is actually something that's older than you might expect since Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is in 1.85:1 way back in 2002, before the popularity of Netflix and smartphones with wider screens. It aired on Nippon TV in Japan but it was initially released straight-to-video by Manga Entertainment in America until many years later when it aired on Adult Swim and then put on streaming in Starz.
SAC_2045 is 16:9, though, despite being almost 20 years after the original series and being made for Netflix, which popularised wider TV series.

Netflix's Tidying Up with Marie Kondo is in 1.90:1.

Adult Swim and Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal is in 2.35:1.

All seasons of The Clone Wars are in 2.35:1 but they aired in pan-and-scan 16:9 for their original Cartoon Network airings (for seasons 1 - 5) but were presented in 2.35:1 in digital, Netflix, Disney+ and Blu-ray. Season 6 was also 2.35:1 in Netflix (where it was released originally) and Blu-ray.

Samurai Jack is also VAR between 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 and many more aspect ratios (framed for 4:3 in Seasons 1 - 4, and 16:9 in Season 5), with one episode (S02E12: XXV - Jack and the Spartans) being almost entirely in an aspect ratio wider than 2.35:1.


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## bullfrog23414

It's a bit nitpicky for the official list, but S3 E8 (the series Finale) of Dark alternates between 2.0:1 and 2.4:1 and is therefore not CIH safe. I think it's the only such episode out of the 26.


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## Josh Z

bullfrog23414 said:


> It's a bit nitpicky for the official list, but S3 E8 (the series Finale) of Dark alternates between 2.0:1 and 2.4:1 and is therefore not CIH safe. I think it's the only such episode out of the 26.


Since the normal OAR for that show is 2.0:1, and no scenes exceed that typical height, I would argue that the episode is still CIH safe even though some scenes are letterboxed more for effect. I think of "not CIH safe" as meaning that some image is either cut off or projected onto your wall (like the flashback scenes in season 2 of Black Monday, which are taller than the show's typical height). I will add a notation to the spreadsheet, though.

Warrior Nun is another 2.0:1 show that periodically has flashbacks letterboxed to 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> TV series being wider than 16:9 is actually something that's older than you might expect since Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is in 1.85:1 way back in 2002, before the popularity of Netflix and smartphones with wider screens. It aired on Nippon TV in Japan but it was initially released straight-to-video by Manga Entertainment in America until many years later when it aired on Adult Swim and then put on streaming in Starz.
> SAC_2045 is 16:9, though, despite being almost 20 years after the original series and being made for Netflix, which popularised wider TV series.
> 
> Netflix's Tidying Up with Marie Kondo is in 1.90:1.
> 
> Adult Swim and Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal is in 2.35:1.
> 
> All seasons of The Clone Wars are in 2.35:1 but they aired in pan-and-scan 16:9 for their original Cartoon Network airings (for seasons 1 - 5) but were presented in 2.35:1 in digital, Netflix, Disney+ and Blu-ray. Season 6 was also 2.35:1 in Netflix (where it was released originally) and Blu-ray.
> 
> Samurai Jack is also VAR between 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 and many more aspect ratios (framed for 4:3 in Seasons 1 - 4, and 16:9 in Season 5), with one episode (S02E12: XXV - Jack and the Spartans) being almost entirely in an aspect ratio wider than 2.35:1.


Thank you for this. Your post led to significant clean-up of the spreadsheet.

I watched all of Ghost in the Shell: SAC on DVD back in the day but never noticed at the time that the aspect ratio was slightly letterboxed. From what I can tell, the series is not currently streaming on Starz, only on Adult Swim (but not in the Adult Swim section of HBO Max). You can also purchase streaming versions from services such as Amazon and Vudu. To my knowledge, all streaming episodes are English dub only, no Japanese audio. The American Blu-ray has Japanese audio but poor "dubtitles" and poor video quality. The best way to watch this show (with Japanese audio and English subtitles) currently is the Region B Blu-ray from the UK.

The trailer for Tidying Up is 16:9, but I cued up an episode and confirmed a 1.90:1 ratio.

The entire series for Samurai Jack is currently streaming on HBO Max. The standalone Adult Swim app appears to only have Seasons 3-5.


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## Josh Z

I have some new updates to the list, but unfortunately the new forum software does not accept ZIP file attachments anymore. I'm going to have to find another way to do this.

In the meantime, the latest additions are:

The Right Stuff - Disney+
World's Most Wanted - Netflix
Maxxx - Hulu
Brassic - Hulu
Tell Me a Story - (CW rebroadcasts of the CBS All Access show)


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## Josh Z

I'm able to attach the list if I convert it to a PDF. Unfortunately, this means losing the ability to sort by show title or aspect ratio.


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## mrvideo

Josh Z said:


> I have some new updates to the list, but unfortunately the new forum software does not accept ZIP file attachments anymore.


Have you complained about this on the Community Feedback: We Are Live! thread?

Zip files are very universal for file uploading on forums.


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## Josh Z

mrvideo said:


> Have you complained about this on the Community Feedback: We Are Live! thread?
> 
> Zip files are very universal for file uploading on forums.


Yeah, they told me ZIP files are not allowed anymore for "security reasons," whatever that's supposed to mean. I asked what other alternatives I could try and got no further response.


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## mrvideo

Josh Z said:


> Yeah, they told me ZIP files are not allowed anymore for "security reasons," whatever that's supposed to mean. I asked what other alternatives I could try and got no further response.


In theory nasties can be embedded within the zip archive. I'm guessing that they would just rather ban ZIP files instead of running them thru a nasty detector before posting. The only other archive that is popular is RAR. No idea if it is banned as well. If I need to post something in a ZIP archive, I just zip it under linux and make it available on my own server.


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## Josh Z

For some reason, the text of the first post in this thread reverted back to what was written on 7/24 even though I'd made updates through 8/4. Although the attached list is fully up-to-date, I lost the shortened list of recently added titles that was in the post. Unfortunately, I don't remember everything I added recently, so I'm just starting that list over. 

Again, the attached PDF is fully complete. I just don't have the checklist of what titles are new.


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## johnhelvete

Transplant (CTV) in Canada. NBC premiere date Sept 1. While the NBC promo is 16:9, the series aired on CTV in 2.0:1. Which would be a first for NBC, albeit an acquisition.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Transplant (CTV) in Canada. NBC premiere date Sept 1. While the NBC promo is 16:9, the series aired on CTV in 2.0:1. Which would be a first for NBC, albeit an acquisition.


I will add to the list, but it wouldn't surprise me if NBC decides to crop it.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I will add to the list, but it wouldn't surprise me if NBC decides to crop it.


I was wondering about that as well. FWIW, the DVD version of MotherFatherSon (Starz, borrowed from my local library) is full frame 16:9 and not in it's original aspect ratio.


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## Josh Z

I've elected to remove The Kasey Musgraves Christmas Show. Despite Amazon labeling it a "season," there was only one episode and it appears to be more of a one-off special than a series.


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## Josh Z

Netflix's Teenage Bounty Hunters is a very frustrating show, A/V-wise. The series is primarily a 2.00:1 aspect ratio, but episode 3 opens with a scene in 2.35:1 scope for no apparent reason. Episode 5 is 2.00:1 but the letterboxed image is off-center and raised high in the frame, again for no reason. I'm only halfway through the season, so it's possible more anomalies like this may occur later.

On top of that, the show's "HDR" has absolutely nothing outside the SDR range, and its Atmos audio is barely stereo with little to nothing in the surrounds, much less the overheads.

It's a fun show, but the production values have some issues.


----------



## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> The trailer for Showtime's upcoming Love Fraud is an extremely wide 2.56:1, which seems absurd for a docuseries. I would not be surprised if the trailer is overmatted for effect and the actual show has a more common ratio like 16:9 or 2.0:1.


Interestingly, Love Fraud premiered today and is indeed a super-wide 2.56:1.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Interestingly, Love Fraud premiered today and is indeed a super-wide 2.56:1.


Wow that’s so wide it is shorter than 16:9.


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## Hydra Spectre

Disney+'s MCU shows were 2:1 when they were previewed in Superbowl.
The only exceptions are What If...? which still doesn't have an official trailer or even teaser and Loki, which is in 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Disney+'s MCU shows were 2:1 when they were previewed in Superbowl.
> The only exceptions are What If...? which still doesn't have an official trailer or even teaser and Loki, which is in 2.35:1.


Thanks. I think I'll wait until closer to release when we have full trailers before I add them to the list, but I'll be on the lookout for them.


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## Hydra Spectre

Paramount Channel's Heathers is in 2.2:1 except for Episode 5 which is in 16:9.


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## Josh Z

Season 2 of Amazon's The Boys has subtitles in the lower letterbox bar, unfortunately.


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## fredxr2d2

Josh Z said:


> Season 2 of Amazon's The Boys has subtitles in the lower letterbox bar, unfortunately.


That's weird, I had them in the frame of the picture on my TV.

Firestick 4K to Vizio M 558-G1


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## markhyams

Josh Z said:


> I have some new updates to the list, but unfortunately the new forum software does not accept ZIP file attachments anymore. I'm going to have to find another way to do this.


You could import your spreadsheet to google docs and post a link. Doing that each time you edit the spreadsheet is probably no more work than zipping it each time. And then we could all just go to the same link, not having to worry about if we have downloaded the most current spreadsheet.

Thanks for all your continued efforts on this!
Mark


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## Josh Z

fredxr2d2 said:


> That's weird, I had them in the frame of the picture on my TV.
> 
> Firestick 4K to Vizio M 558-G1


I'm watching on a Roku Premiere+. The subtitles have one line within the picture and one line below. For some reason, the text also appears in Closed Caption style black boxes.


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## Josh Z

markhyams said:


> You could import your spreadsheet to google docs and post a link. Doing that each time you edit the spreadsheet is probably no more work than zipping it each time. And then we could all just go to the same link, not having to worry about if we have downloaded the most current spreadsheet.


Unfortunately, I do most of my editing on the spreadsheet from my work computer during the day, and my company blocks access to Google Docs and other file-sharing networks.


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## markhyams

Josh Z said:


> Unfortunately, I do most of my editing on the spreadsheet from my work computer during the day, and my company blocks access to Google Docs and other file-sharing networks.


Maybe email a copy of the spreadsheet to yourself, and upload it to google docs once you get home?


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## Josh Z

markhyams said:


> Maybe email a copy of the spreadsheet to yourself, and upload it to google docs once you get home?


Our email is also monitored, so...

🤷‍♂️


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## markhyams

Take it home on a thumb drive, then upload?


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## Josh Z

markhyams said:


> Take it home on a thumb drive, then upload?


Blocked as well, unfortunately.


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## markhyams

Well ok. But you are allowed to post on AVS Forum? Seems like there is a solution in here somewhere...


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## Josh Z

markhyams said:


> Well ok. But you are allowed to post on AVS Forum? Seems like there is a solution in here somewhere...


The issue is that the company doesn't want employees sending client information or proprietary data off-network without authorization, so they block most of the popular file-sharing methods and monitor email. Obviously, they can't block everything, and forums like this that are unrelated to the company's business are considered low-risk.

When AVSForum allowed me to upload Excel spreadsheets, it wasn't a problem. However, the forum's software upgrade now no longer accepts Excel attachments, only pictures or PDFs.

I'm sure there's probably a workaround out there somewhere, but if it's going to be too convoluted, it's honestly not worth my time to deal with it and PDF will have to do.


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## Hydra Spectre

High Score is actually in 1.90:1 and not 2.00:1.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> High Score is actually in 1.90:1 and not 2.00:1.


I have it listed as 1.90:1.


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## Josh Z

Removed Fox's Next. The early trailers were misleading. The show is standard 16:9.

Also corrected the aspect ratio for The Good Lord Bird on Showtime. The actual measured ratio is 2.20:1. (The trailers were matted further to 2.35:1.)


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## Josh Z

I'm finding conflicting trailers for the British series Save Me, which is carried by Starz in America. Some trailers are 2.0:1 while others are 2.35:1. Unfortunately, I no longer have Starz. Has anyone watched this?

The second season, called Save Me Too, will stream on Peacock. Trailers for that are 2.0:1.

Unless confirmed otherwise, I'm going to assume that the both seasons are 2.0:1.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> I'm finding conflicting trailers for the British series Save Me, which is carried by Starz in America. Some trailers are 2.0:1 while others are 2.35:1. Unfortunately, I no longer have Starz. Has anyone watched this?
> 
> The second season, called Save Me Too, will stream on Peacock. Trailers for that are 2.0:1.
> 
> Unless confirmed otherwise, I'm going to assume that the both seasons are 2.0:1.


I was informed that season 1 of this series is already streaming on Peacock. Aspect ratio confirmed as 2.0:1.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> I'm finding conflicting trailers for the British series Save Me, which is carried by Starz in America. Some trailers are 2.0:1 while others are 2.35:1. Unfortunately, I no longer have Starz. Has anyone watched this?
> 
> The second season, called Save Me Too, will stream on Peacock. Trailers for that are 2.0:1.


I'm told that the series is no longer on Starz and is only on Peacock now.


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## Frank714

Very interesting thread, thanks Josh for compiling all the information.

Shouldn't it be time for the consumer electronics industry to consider 2.00:1 (18:9) as the next generation TV aspect ratio?

IMHO they are currently wasting resources with 8K resolution.


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## johnhelvete

Dash & Lily (Netflix). 2.0:1.
Note. Despite the Holiday setting, this is not a movie but an 8 episode series.


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## Josh Z

The Mandalorian season 2 episode 1 tries to do the IMAX thing by switching from the show's usual 2.35:1 to full-height 16:9 during the big action climax in the last ten minutes.


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## Killroy

Is it scope safe?


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## bud16415

Killroy said:


> Is it scope safe?


As far as I know the director never made provisions for a theater release into a scope theater. It is TV and TV is 16:9 so it is intended to be viewed less immersive and with black bars except for “the IMAX thing”.

TV is just TV if you want to follow the letter of the law. Doing otherwise is allowing your personal feelings for the cinematic content to play a part in your presentation method. It is clearly not IMAX as it is not at all affiliated with IMAX.
Play it as CIH with black bars on 4 sides and then let it expand to full height during the IMAX thing would be my thoughts.


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## Killroy

Stop calling it IMAX. It is not IMAX unless it was filmed for an IMAX theater. IMAX is a format used by IMAX for presentations in their branded theaters. Anything else is just 16:9 format.

So my question stands for Josh...is it scope safe?


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## Josh Z

Killroy said:


> So my question stands for Josh...is it scope safe?


I would say yes. I watched it in scope and didn't notice the change in aspect ratio at first. 

My projector is normally set to blank out anything above or below the 2.35:1 frame lines when using the scope preset, but I happened to recently remove the bottom mask because I was watching a show with subtitles annoyingly in the lower letterbox bar. With this episode of The Mandalorian, it took a few minutes before I happened to see the "Stewart" logo on my screen border light up when something reflected off it. Because of that, when the episode was over I switched back to 16:9 mode and rewatched the entire scene. 

If my projector's blanking had been turned on as I normally use it, I probably would not have realized anything was cropped. The footage still seems to be composed to be scope-safe.


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## Killroy

Josh Z said:


> I would say yes. I watched it in scope and didn't notice the change in aspect ratio at first.
> 
> My projector is normally set to blank out anything above or below the 2.35:1 frame lines when using the scope preset, but I happened to recently remove the bottom mask because I was watching a show with subtitles annoyingly in the lower letterbox bar. With this episode of The Mandalorian, it took a few minutes before I happened to see the "Stewart" logo on my screen border light up when something reflected off it. Because of that, when the episode was over I switched back to 16:9 mode and rewatched the entire scene.
> 
> If my projector's blanking had been turned on as I normally use it, I probably would not have realized anything was cropped. The footage still seems to be composed to be scope-safe.


I don't have that problem with the a-lens since the vertical stretch gets rid of any overflow. That Kelly Gang (TV) movie with the shrinking aspect ratio I was clueless that it did that until later on since the original IMDb specs said it was 2.35:1 until I saw the shrinking AR on my regular TV and let them know of the mistake...BTW, that movie is also scope safe but the shrinking AR is actually pretty important part of the plot.


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## bud16415

Killroy said:


> Stop calling it IMAX. It is not IMAX unless it was filmed for an IMAX theater. IMAX is a format used by IMAX for presentations in their branded theaters. Anything else is just 16:9 format.
> 
> So my question stands for Josh...is it scope safe?


This is the logic that I don’t get. If it is not IMAX and I agree it is not IMAX, by the same logic it is not scope also it is just 2.35:1 TV. Just as it never was shown in an IMAX venue it was never shown in a commercial scope theater. Something can not be scope safe as it was never once intended to be shown on a scope screen. It is TV plain and simple and TV is 16:9. I’m pretty sure the director knows TV is 16:9 and when he chose to make a TV show in TV 2.35 he knew the world would see it less tall not more wide than every other TV show they watch.

Now that doesn’t preclude you from experimenting and making a personal judgment call to watch anything any size you like. I do it all the time. It does mean you agree That TV is a unclassified media and to paraphrase Josh do you want to watch The Mandalorian smaller than Wheel of Fortune. I personally watch Planet Earth as wide as I watch scope movies. That makes Planet Earth the same height as a movie like Dunkirk that is an IMAX presentation and also scope safe. So you could ask the question is Planet Earth scope safe and the answer has to be the same as is The Mandalorian scope safe. And the answer is it is imposable to answer as it is user subjective. Josh says it is but I doubt he speaks for the director of a TV show.
That is true for all the shows listed in this thread they are all TV shows and they technically not wider than 16:9 they are correctly all shorter than 16:9. Unless you agree to the concept that non motion pictures / TV / streaming whatever you want to call it are something that is up to the discretion of the home projectionist. In that case we are in agreement.


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## Killroy

Unlike IMAX, "scope" is a term used to reference any aspect ratio that is greater than 2.35:1 just like "academy" is used to reference any aspect ratio that is between 1.33:1 and 1.37:1. The term "flat" was also used at one time to reference any aspect ratio between 1.66:1 to 1.85:1 until the advent of HDTV sets with their 16:9 aspect ratio and that replaced "flat" with the more commonly used term of "widescreen" but not up to "scope".

IMAX is a not, and has never been used (properly) to describe any aspect ratio but instead it is used to describe the filming process of using IMAX cameras and film. IMAX never had a SET aspect ratio but switched mostly in the 1.90:1 to 2.00:1 ratios but that was mostly due to the film stock that they used. When they stopped using film (the biggest mistake that company ever made) they began to describe any larger than scope aspect ratio in the same movie that used scope as well.

IMAX is not even a format any more since they are using almost the same equipment used to capture "scope" film when used in an anamorphic process and even non-anamorphic process.. IMAX is just a marketing term that should have died the day they stopped using film.

Which brings us to the last term that is always improperly used...anamorphic. It is not correctly used when referring to a "scope" film. The anamorphic term can ONLY be used when a film is either filmed using an anamorphic lens to stretch the image to fill a taller than scope aspect ratio or when using an anamorphic lens to stretch (or compress) a taller than scope aspect ratio into a "scope" aspect ratio screen.

A film that is shot in scope is not always anamorphic but an anamorphic film is always scope. The term "scope safe" is term used by film makers to describe that their films are matted in a way that no important information will be lost when the larger than scope aspect ratio is shown in a scope screen... Avatar is the absolutely perfect example. Cameron filmed and composed the entire film in a "scope safe" matte and then initially released the film to theaters in scope ONLY. When the film was released to home media he decided to open up the aspect ratio to take advantage of the added 16:9 aspect ratio of HDTVs but if you play it on a scope screen you will see it exactly as it was shown on ALL movie theaters during its initial run. Subsequent Avatar theater runs were released in a "flat" (16:9) aspect ratios.


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## bud16415

I tend to agree with Wikipedia’s definition of scope.
CinemaScope - Wikipedia
Derived from Cinemascope originally and stuck on as filmmakers jargon to this day.

The key word being filmmakers.

All aspect ratios are just ratios of rectangles and hold no depiction of relative size to one and other we assign that size/ immersion factor ourselves. There are some guidelines we can follow that are logical. One of the strongest is the theatrical relationship between motion pictures filmed in AR around 2.35 and 1.85 over the past 70 years and shown in the same theaters as CIH. So there is little doubt the directors of these movies understood they would be theatrically released in this manner. TV never factored into any of this just like in the early days of TV being 1.33 and a close AR for theater being 1.37 no one assumed I Love Lucy would play as immersive as Casablanca. They are two different things and just because they could doesn’t mean they should.

Names are all we have to go by if we wish to then figure out for ourselves first how movies and then TV should fit into our home presentation scheme of things. We have names and we have ARs that go with them and they form a clue we can work with. Some examples would be Scope 2.4, Flat 1.85, IMAX 1.44, IMAX 1.89, Academy 1.37 to name a few. And yes scope safe is a real term regarding the two IMAX formats if you want to crop them. No place have I ever read cropping them makes them better, some people feel they are equally as good cropped and for me that runs contrary to why then people will pay extra to see the taller version fully immersive and why there is constant clamor in all the video forums when one is cropped on media going to the home market. Nonetheless a comparison could be drawn as how immersive they would play one to another.

TV now is a whole different thing there is to name a few TV 1.33, TV 1.77, TV 2.00, TV, 2.35, and on and on it is a digital media for the most part and it’s all processed to us as digital in a 16:9 container with black bars wherever there isn’t content. 99.9999% of the folks watching it watch it on 16:9 devices called TVs. The people making this and sending it out are not planning on us having A-lens or projectors that zoom to fill scope screens and if they happen to plan for an AR change midway thru a TV show are surely not thinking of making it scope safe or not. It is clearly not IMAX and it should be equally clear it is not a Scope motion picture. It is just an artistic expression of a wider Aspect Ratio.

For the record I didn’t call it IMAX Josh did in post 23.

Now is there a difference between The Mandalorian and I love Lucy because they are both TV after all? Of course there is and 70 years of constant improvement to the art of making and delivering TV to us at home has TV now on par in every way with motion pictures when they want to be. The Mandalorian is a great example of that in fact. Also our display devices have changed more than a little bit over the last 70 years. People now are hauling home 85” 4k TVs routinely. Of course the people making TV shows are aware of this and adjusting accordingly.

IMO it is up to each of us to deal with this if we watch TV on our home theaters. I don’t personally care if you want to think of some TV as motion pictures and if the TV happens to be shot in 2.35 to show it as if it was a 2.35 motion picture. The only problem I have is some TV can present as scope motion picture why cant some other TV present well as IMAX at home. If we want to then decide if it is also scope safe I’m ok with that as well.

For me it works both ways also with TV. I still watch the original B&W 1.33 TV shows in my theater Perry Mason, Twilight Zone, etc. They are not improved watching them overly immersive as when they were made the assumption was TV was much different than today. For me zoomed to about 60% of CIH is large enough.


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## Killroy

Just checked.... it's 99% scope safe. A few spots things get cut-off but nothing important. BTW, I think the scope is a lot more powerful (close-ups of faces) so I am sure they framed it that way.


----------



## Josh Z

Killroy said:


> Avatar is the absolutely perfect example. Cameron filmed and composed the entire film in a "scope safe" matte and then initially released the film to theaters in scope ONLY. When the film was released to home media he decided to open up the aspect ratio to take advantage of the added 16:9 aspect ratio of HDTVs but if you play it on a scope screen you will see it exactly as it was shown on ALL movie theaters during its initial run. Subsequent Avatar theater runs were released in a "flat" (16:9) aspect ratios.


Avatar was released to theaters in multiple formats and aspect ratios simultaneously. The following were all available on release date, with a note from Cameron instructing theaters to project whichever aspect ratio would be largest on their auditorium screen, prioritizing 3D over 2D.

2D 2.35:1
3D 2.35:1
2D 1.85:1
3D 1.85:1
2D IMAX 1.44:1
3D IMAX 1.44:1
2D IMAX 1.89:1
3D IMAX 1.89:1

During production, Cameron composed the photography for 2.35:1, which you can see in the deleted scenes on the Collector's Edition Blu-ray. After-the-fact, he decided in post-production that screen size was more important to him than aspect ratio, and came up with the multi-ratio distribution approach.


----------



## Killroy

Josh Z said:


> Avatar was released to theaters in multiple formats and aspect ratios simultaneously. The following were all available on release date, with a note from Cameron instructing theaters to project whichever aspect ratio would be largest on their auditorium screen, prioritizing 3D over 2D.
> 
> 2D 2.35:1
> 3D 2.35:1
> 2D 1.85:1
> 3D 1.85:1
> 2D IMAX 1.44:1
> 3D IMAX 1.44:1
> 2D IMAX 1.89:1
> 3D IMAX 1.89:1
> 
> During production, Cameron composed the photography for 2.35:1, which you can see in the deleted scenes on the Collector's Edition Blu-ray. After-the-fact, he decided in post-production that screen size was more important to him than aspect ratio, and came up with the multi-ratio distribution approach.


There were no 2D 1.85:1 showings anywhere in AZ. Don't know about any 3D since I would never watch 3D. One IMAX screen (small AMC owned IMAX screen) showed it in "cropped" scope while the big IMAX screen (in LV) showed it in full scope.... that one surprised me since they also showed the Harry Potter last two films (saw them in a double header) also in scope.


----------



## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> I tend to agree with Wikipedia’s definition of scope.
> CinemaScope - Wikipedia
> Derived from Cinemascope originally and stuck on as filmmakers jargon to this day.


Although derived from the name of the CinemaScope format, the jargon term "scope" has expanded to refer to any content with an aspect ratio from 2.35:1 to 2.55:1.

IMAX is a trademarked brand name for one specific theatrical format projected onto a large screen in a licensed theater. Content with any aspect ratio from 1.33:1 to 2.76:1 can be projected onto an IMAX screen.

"Scope" refers to aspect ratio. IMAX refers to screen size. All 2.35:1 content is scope. Not all 16:9 content is IMAX.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Although derived from the name of the CinemaScope format, the jargon term "scope" has expanded to refer to any content with an aspect ratio from 2.35:1 to 2.55:1.
> 
> IMAX is a trademarked brand name for one specific theatrical format projected onto a large screen in a licensed theater. Content with any aspect ratio from 1.33:1 to 2.76:1 can be projected onto an IMAX screen.
> 
> "Scope" refers to aspect ratio. IMAX refers to screen size. All 2.35:1 content is scope. Not all 16:9 content is IMAX.


I don’t disagree with any of the above only IMAX for a long time was exactly that but now IMAX has re-branded to include IMAX at home as part of their signature product line.

IMAX Enhanced: Unleash the power of IMAX at home

Obviously IMAX does not expect you to build a 70’ tall screen at home in order to watch their media and in doing so have moved the name IMAX into a more general category similar to someone owning a 2.4:1 screen calling it their home scope setup. They actually offered their 1.44 content to the home market many years ago in the days of DVD and condoned playing it even though there was no official IMAX at home description. I watched it IMAX immersive 20 years ago and felt ok using IMAX in a generic description I also watched all the other ARs on the same setup so like real IMAX I was inclusive of it all also.

So you are exactly right when you describe IMAX as inclusive of 1.33:1 to 2.76:1 and that is exactly the range of ARs I can handle at home also.

I also agree not all 16:9 content is IMAX and likewise if you closely read the jargon/definition of scope it says (filmmakers / motion pictures, projectionists) use the term to describe their works ranging between 2.35-2.55:1. It is motion picture terminology not TV terminology. Just as a TV show made in 16:9 isn’t IMAX a TV show made in 2.35:1 isn’t a scope movie necessarily. If you chose to call it scope then when it expands to taller than scope you should be ready to call it at least IMAX-like, or as you called it “the IMAX thing”. If you want to crop it off as a personal choice that’s ok as well and if another person with the capabilities wants to enjoy it as IMAX like that should be acceptable as well. The really important part is that is what the director intended and the way 99.999% of all viewers will have to watch it.
It is no different than every TV show listed in this thread. The director made it for a TV market knowing 99.999% of his viewers will watch these shows CIW with black bars above and below the image. If you ask the director of Stranger Things if his intention was people will see thin black bars above and below his show he will say of course it is TV and TV is 16:9.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Avatar was released to theaters in multiple formats and aspect ratios simultaneously. The following were all available on release date, with a note from Cameron instructing theaters to project whichever aspect ratio would be largest on their auditorium screen, prioritizing 3D over 2D.
> 
> 2D 2.35:1
> 3D 2.35:1
> 2D 1.85:1
> 3D 1.85:1
> 2D IMAX 1.44:1
> 3D IMAX 1.44:1
> 2D IMAX 1.89:1
> 3D IMAX 1.89:1
> 
> During production, Cameron composed the photography for 2.35:1, which you can see in the deleted scenes on the Collector's Edition Blu-ray. After-the-fact, he decided in post-production that screen size was more important to him than aspect ratio, and came up with the multi-ratio distribution approach.


Avatar is a really great example in so many ways. First it is not a TV show it is a motion picture with wide release into all the markets. It was filmed 2.39:1 safe but shown opened matte at 1.89 in IMAX venues and released on BD as 1.78. All that was per the directors request and orders and in interviews he said he did it because he liked it better the taller it was as he felt it gave a better degree of “vertigo” to all the flying around. He never said he didn’t like the scope version just that he liked the other versions and wanted people to see as much of it as possible.

To the best of my knowledge the home BD is not a branded IMAX affiliated product but nonetheless it is even taller than what was shown in IMAX theaters and equally as wide as scope. As far as I know everyone here plays it as scope safe and chops the top and bottom off. As it is clearly deemed scope safe by the directions of the director. No one I believe is saying watch it as 1.77 within CIH with black bars to the sides. But on the other hand if I were to play it full frame as wide and immersive as scope I can’t call that IMAX? 
I also didn’t know there was a 1.44:1 version of Avatar. Interesting.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> As far as I know everyone here plays it as scope safe and chops the top and bottom off. As it is clearly deemed scope safe by the directions of the director. No one I believe is saying watch it as 1.77 within CIH with black bars to the sides.


Different CIH users choose to watch Avatar however they feel is best. Some do watch it in 16:9 pillarbox, some crop/zoom to 2.35:1, and some find a point in between. The Blu-ray is not strictly scope safe because on-screen text and graphics were moved from the theatrical version and shifted higher and lower in the frame, outside the 2.35:1 zone. I find that 2.20:1 is the best compromise.



> But on the other hand if I were to play it full frame as wide and immersive as scope I can’t call that IMAX?


You do not have an IMAX screen in your home, Bud.



> I also didn’t know there was a 1.44:1 version of Avatar. Interesting.


The movie's photography was captured at 16:9. The 1.44:1 IMAX version was full image height but cropped on the sides.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Different CIH users choose to watch Avatar however they feel is best. Some do watch it in 16:9 pillarbox, some crop/zoom to 2.35:1, and some find a point in between. The Blu-ray is not strictly scope safe because on-screen text and graphics were moved from the theatrical version and shifted higher and lower in the frame, outside the 2.35:1 zone. I find that 2.20:1 is the best compromise.
> 
> 
> 
> You do not have an IMAX screen in your home, Bud.
> 
> 
> 
> The movie's photography was captured at 16:9. The 1.44:1 IMAX version was full image height but cropped on the sides.


Three interesting points you make Josh.

First: You have found that doctoring the AR of Avatar to 2.20:1 and showing it on a 2.40:1 screen with little black bars is the best compromise for you. I take a much simpler approach and say showing it on a 1.77:1 screen as wide as I would show scope seems pretty simple. For a group of people that detested pan and scan for many years it seems we are ok with slicing and dicing to make everything best fit a 2.4:1 screen.


Second: I didn’t know it was kosher to chop the ends off of 16:9 content so it ends up 1.44:1 and it becomes IMAX1.44. If I took a scope movie and chopped the ends off it so it would fit 16:9 frame it would be a mortal sin.

No I think I prefer taking them as they come.

Third: Yes I know I do not have an IMAX theater in my home. Here is how I view that issue. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it is close enough to being a duck for me.

When I sit back and play say Avatar. I have a bucket of popcorn with butter on my lap, I have a large coke with ice in a drink cup with a straw, the room is devoid of any light and painted black as pitch, the sound is amazing and stimulates my whole body not just my ears, the movie starts and 120% fills my vision and for my eyes looks just outstanding and real. Having been to real IMAX my guess is I’m 90% of the way there. I’m missing a few things like the annoying guy 3 rows down checking his phone and the kid behind me kicking my seat, and oh the guy next to me fidgeting around. But I put up without having the true IMAX experience because for a family of 4 I’m saving about $100 a movie or more. Oh and yes the screen isn't 60’ high but the visual immersion is the same and after the lights go out I can hardly notice the difference.
I should come up with a new name because I know how much IMAX at Home annoys everyone. So from now on I will call it BudMAX. What do you think?


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> First: You have found that doctoring the AR of Avatar to 2.20:1 and showing it on a 2.40:1 screen with little black bars is the best compromise for you. I take a much simpler approach and say showing it on a 1.77:1 screen as wide as I would show scope seems pretty simple.


Your prerogative. Nothing wrong with that. 



> For a group of people that detested pan and scan for many years it seems we are ok with slicing and dicing to make everything best fit a 2.4:1 screen.


This isn't the same thing as pan & scan at all. Avatar had multiple aspect ratios during its production and theatrical release. Each of them is as legitimate as the others. 



> Second: I didn’t know it was kosher to chop the ends off of 16:9 content so it ends up 1.44:1 and it becomes IMAX1.44. If I took a scope movie and chopped the ends off it so it would fit 16:9 frame it would be a mortal sin.


You can go ahead and take that one up with James Cameron.


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## Josh Z

I've been catching up with Showtime's The Good Lord Bird. Most episodes of the show are 2.20:1, but episode 5 is inexplicably slightly wider at 2.35:1. Episode 6 goes back to 2.20.

Update: The finale episode 7 is also 2.35:1.


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## john hunter

Couldn't see it in the list Josh, but Netflix "Bonfire of Destiny" is in Scope.
Stupid title for this lavish French mini series based on a real event ,when in the turn of the 18Century Paris, a charitable bazar went up in flames with terrific casualties.
Mostly women from the aristocracy and their maids.
The series follows the lives of 3 survivors.
Subs are where they should be-in the picture!!
Highly recommended.


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## Josh Z

There have been a lot of recent updates to this list, in case anyone hasn't checked on it in a while. Netflix in particular has really been cranking out TV shows with wide aspect ratios.


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## johnhelvete

The trailer for Clarice (CBS, Feb 11) appears to be 2.35:1. Alex Kurtzman, producer of all of the CBS AA Star Trek series, is producing Clarice, and it would be the first CBS original (non All Access series) to air on the linear CBS network as far as I can tell.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The trailer for Clarice (CBS, Feb 11) appears to be 2.35:1. Alex Kurtzman, producer of all of the CBS AA Star Trek series, is producing Clarice, and it would be the first CBS original (non All Access series) to air on the linear CBS network as far as I can tell.


I saw that trailer, but I'm not convinced the show itself will actually look that way. I think the trailer may have just been matted for effect. I'll check on it again when it airs.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I saw that trailer, but I'm not convinced the show itself will actually look that way. I think the trailer may have just been matted for effect. I'll check on it again when it airs.


Taking the wait and see approach with it being CBS and 2:35.1 to boot, makes perfect sense to me.


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## Hydra Spectre

The Codename: Kids Next Door episode Operation: A.R.C.H.I.V.E. (first half of S03E06) is mostly in 2.35:1 in a 4:3 container, but the episode goes to 4:3 after Mr. Frybingle interrupts Numbuh 1.


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## Josh Z

Entry for The Expanse has been updated. Season 4 had a variable ratio, switching between 16:9 and 2.35:1. Season 5 varies from 2.00:1 to 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

WandaVision is primarily pillarboxed 4:3. (Very minor spoiler) The first episode ends with the screen expanding in width to full-screen 16:9 and then gradually shrinking in height to 2.35:1. During both episodes available so far, the Marvel logo at the beginning and the end credits are also 2.35:1. The show is not Constant Height safe.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> WandaVision is primarily pillarboxed 4:3. (Very minor spoiler) The first episode ends with the screen expanding in width to full-screen 16:9 and then gradually shrinking in height to 2.35:1. During both episodes available so far, the Marvel logo at the beginning and the end credits are also 2.35:1. The show is not Constant Height safe.


Sounds wonderfully variable. What do we call a show like this as its mostly not wider than 16:9? I saw the previews or commercials for it and saw they were jumping around a lot. Thanks for verifying the show does the same. ☕


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## Frank714

The new _Das Boot_ TV series. It's not a remake and instead explores other German U-Boat stories: Das Boot (TV series) - Wikipedia


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## Josh Z

Frank714 said:


> The new _Das Boot_ TV series. It's not a remake and instead explores other German U-Boat stories: Das Boot (TV series) - Wikipedia


It's on the list for Hulu, alphabetized under B for "Boot."


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## dschulz

"Trickster" (originally aired in Canada on the CBC, now airing Stateside on the CW) is widescreen. 2.00:1 I think.


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## Josh Z

dschulz said:


> "Trickster" (originally aired in Canada on the CBC, now airing Stateside on the CW) is widescreen. 2.00:1 I think.


Thanks. I've added that, as well as Superman & Lois.


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## Hydra Spectre

The two special episodes of HBO's Euphoria (Part One: Rue - Trouble Don't Last Always) (Part Two: Jules - F*** Anyone Who's Not a Sea Blob) are both in 1.81:1 with black bars only at the top.
The rest of the series is primarily in 16:9 with some 4:3 and even 5:3 scenes.

The Netflix K-Drama Mr. Sunshine is in 2.35:1 and it also aired dubbed in the Philippines on GMA Network, it aired on tvN in South Korea.
Another K-Drama, VIP, is in 2.35:1 and aired on SBS TV in South Korea and dubbed in the Philippines on GMA Network. Not yet picked up for distribution outside of Korea and Philippines.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The two special episodes of HBO's Euphoria (Part One: Rue - Trouble Don't Last Always) (Part Two: Jules - F*** Anyone Who's Not a Sea Blob) are both in 1.81:1 with black bars only at the top.


Thanks. I cued up a Special Episode of Euphoria and it has black bars on both the top and bottom of my screen. Looks to be 1.85:1.


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## Josh Z

The 2019 series Wayne originally premiered on YouTube Premium, where the episodes were letterboxed to 2.0:1. (You can still watch them on YouTube, for free now.) The series was recently picked up by Amazon, but it turns out those same episodes are now full-screen 16:9.

I've removed the show from the Amazon section of the list and edited the notes under YouTube.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> WandaVision is primarily pillarboxed 4:3. (Very minor spoiler) The first episode ends with the screen expanding in width to full-screen 16:9 and then gradually shrinking in height to 2.35:1. During both episodes available so far, the Marvel logo at the beginning and the end credits are also 2.35:1. The show is not Constant Height safe.


The fourth episode of WandaVision is primarily 2.35:1 with one brief 4:3 scene that expands in height beyond the 2.35:1 area.


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## Josh Z

I don't generally pay attention to animated content on Netflix. Until now, everything I've sampled there has been regular full-screen 16:9. I assumed that was just the standard Netflix enforces for animation it produces.

However, the trailer for Pacific Rim: The Black is letterboxed to 2.0:1.






If anyone knows of other animated or anime series on Netflix that are wider than 16:9, please post here as I've likely missed them. Thanks.


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## Hydra Spectre

The fifth episode of WandaVision is balanced between 2.35:1 and 16:9.
It has no 4:3 scenes.
Not Constant Height Safe.

Also, the other MCU shows, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Loki, are both 2.35:1 while What If...? is in 2.2:1.
I think Marvel Studios' Legends is in 2.35:1 consistently throughout it's run because it has clips from The Avengers, a 1.85:1 film, cropped to 2.35:1.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The trailer for Clarice (CBS, Feb 11) appears to be 2.35:1. Alex Kurtzman, producer of all of the CBS AA Star Trek series, is producing Clarice, and it would be the first CBS original (non All Access series) to air on the linear CBS network as far as I can tell.





Josh Z said:


> I saw that trailer, but I'm not convinced the show itself will actually look that way. I think the trailer may have just been matted for effect. I'll check on it again when it airs.


As I suspected, Clarice is regular 16:9 despite the heavily matted, cinematic trailers.


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## Josh Z

The HBO Max series Made for Love is primarily 2.35:1. However, the first episode opens with a short pre-credits teaser that's 16:9 full-screen. The third episode is about half 16:9 (not CIH safe) and half scope. Ep 7 also has some 16:9 bits.


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## Josh Z

The trailer for Ellen's Next Great Designer on HBO Max is 2.35:1, but I can't fathom why a reality competition show like this would need to be in scope, so this may just be a trailer thing.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> The trailer for Ellen's Next Great Designer on HBO Max is 2.35:1, but I can't fathom why a reality competition show like this would need to be in scope, so this may just be a trailer thing.


Nope, the show really is in scope. No idea why, but there you have it.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> Nope, the show really is in scope. No idea why, but there you have it.


This clearly points out the difference in ARs and what is to be considered cinematic.

Something I have been saying for a few years is that all this media that is not cinema needs to be evaluated by the end user and then decide how immersive it wants to be shown. TV watchers have the choice made for them as in this case they have a 16:9 TV and it will be shown less immersive than 16:9 TV as far as height. The producers of this TV show know it is never going to be shown in a theater and they know that 99.999% of the viewers will have TV sets not projection theaters.

There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make it 2.35 it is their money if they want to spend millions of dollars on broadcasting black bars. If they come out in an interview and say they did it this way because they wanted to film the subject matter in a way that was more cinematic then maybe I would feel inclined to sit closer with a TV or expand it with my projector. Without knowing that it is purely a personal choice as to how large to watch it. There is no dictate. No different than when I watch Planet Earth or GoT and deem for myself they seem proper with IMAX like immersion / BudMAX.

It is great to have a list of these shows and I commend you on keeping it up, but when I start watching one of these shows in my media room I realize it instantly and have to make a judgment call based around what I see.

With real cinema there is a predetermined sizing relationship between scope and flat and we don’t need to hear the input of the director as we know his product was intended to be shown in a theater as most likely CIH.
This stuff as I mentioned early on in the thread is just TV


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## mttmax

I'm new to this thread, and I thought to contribute something:

HBO Max:
2.00:1: Mare of Easttown, Beartown, 30 Coins, Industry, The Investigation, The Undoing,
His Dark Materials (S2), Perry Mason, Avenue 5, The Flight Attendant, Generation... basically 90% of new shows
2.66:1: On The Spectrum

Netflix:
90% new shows are in 2.00:1, with exception below, mostly incomplete:
1.85:1 : Behind Her Eyes, Unorthodox, The Eddy, Paranormal, The Victims' Game
1.90:1 : Worn Stories, Triad Princess, The Stranded
2.10:1 : White Lines
2.20:1 : Space Force, The Baby-Sitters Club, Shadow and Bone, Ratched, The Politician, Hollywood, Away, The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance (slightly wider than 2.20)
2.35 - 2.39:1 (Scope) : Ethos, The Liberator, Jupiter's Legacy, The Letter for the King, Sky Rojo (some scenes are 2.00:1)

Apple TV+
1.90:1 : Little America
2.10:1 : See
2.20:1 : Truth Be Told 
2.39:1 : Tehran, Losing Alice


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## Josh Z

mttmax said:


> HBO Max:
> 2.00:1: Mare of Easttown, Beartown, 30 Coins, Industry, The Investigation, The Undoing,
> His Dark Materials (S2), Perry Mason, Avenue 5, The Flight Attendant, Generation... basically 90% of new shows


Although all of these shows stream on HBO Max, my list is broken up between those that originate on HBO's linear channel and those that are Max Originals.



> 2.66:1: On The Spectrum


I wasn't aware of this one. I just cued up the first episode on two devices. On both, it defaults to English dubbed audio. If you select to watch with the original Hebrew audio, NVIDIA ShieldTV adds very large English subtitles that are partially in the image and partially in the letterbox bar, extending way below the 2.35:1 boundary. Roku is even more frustrating, in that it generates no subtitles at all unless you turn on English closed captioning (white text in ugly black boxes), which again extends below the image.

I'll also note that the show's opening credits start at full-screen 16:9 and quickly shrink in height to 2.66:1, but as far as I can tell everything remains 2.66:1 afterwards.



> Netflix:
> 1.85:1 : Unorthodox, The Eddy, Paranormal,


Thanks. The trailers for these three are all full-screen 16:9, but I just validated that the episodes actually have tiny letterbox bars.



> Sky Rojo (some scenes are 2.00:1)


Similarly, the trailers for this are entirely 2.35:1 with no indication that the ratio varies to 2.00:1 in some scenes.


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## puddy77

Jupiter’s Legacy on Netflix varies between scope for modern scenes and full 16x9 for flashback scenes.


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## Josh Z

puddy77 said:


> Jupiter’s Legacy on Netflix varies between scope for modern scenes and full 16x9 for flashback scenes.


I discovered that as well. I'll update the list on Monday.


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## Josh Z

On the subject of Jupiter's Legacy, trailers for the show were 2.35:1 with no indication of VAR. While watching, I set my projector for scope with electronic blanking of anything above and below 2.35:1. I quickly realized that the composition of the flashback scenes looked poor, so I zoomed out and discovered the variable ratio. Scenes set in the modern day are scope while those set in the 1920s are full-screen 16:9.

For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.


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## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> On the subject of Jupiter's Legacy, trailers for the show were 2.35:1 with no indication of VAR. While watching, I set my projector for scope with electronic blanking of anything above and below 2.35:1. I quickly realized that the composition of the flashback scenes looked poor, so I zoomed out and discovered the variable ratio. Scenes set in the modern day are scope while those set in the 1920s are full-screen 16:9.
> 
> For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.


I’m honestly curious. It seems from what you posted the scope parts play well being shown as immersive as a scope motion picture and are even diminished some when going to your 2.0:1 setting making a compromise for the 16:9 parts of the show.

I know you don’t have a CIH+IMAX sized screen but if you did would that be a good way to enjoy this show? Or would the 16:9 parts be overly large doing that?

In your opinion has the director of this show and others doing this form of AR changing made an error in their cinematography? Might they have rather placed the 16:9 inside the 2.35 frame except they expected an outrage from the majority of viewers with TV sets not liking the double black bars.
Are shows like this just a no win situation for CIH projection folks?


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Are shows like this just a no win situation for CIH projection folks?


Basically, yes.


----------



## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.


I watched some more of Jupiter's Legacy last night using my projector's 2.0:1 preset. That seemed very workable. The 16:9 scenes don't look too cramped or lose anything noticeable.

This show's use of variable ratio is frustrating, as there's no particular need for the flashback scenes to be larger than the present day scenes. There's nothing "IMAX" about them. They're composed as typical 16:9, which means that faces and object sizes are larger than the shrunken letterboxed footage of the present day scenes.

I suspect that the most satisfying way to watch this show would be to use a Radiance Pro or MadVR Envy with aspect ratio detection to automatically scale down and pillarbox the 16:9 scenes within the 2.35:1 frame. That's a very expensive solution, unfortunately.


----------



## bud16415

So this show expands but does not display anything “IMAX” when expanding, but on the other hand when it switches to scope AR it has a scope motion picture quality even though it is a TV show and not a scope motion picture intended to be shown in a theater.

From that can we assume that some TV could have an “IMAX” type framing / cinematography, and even a made for TV series could be totally framed as if it were “IMAX” or expand like it was an “IMAX” shifter.

If this is possible and the director didn’t tell us anything much like the director of this hasn’t explained why he wanted to shoot in an AR like scope knowing he wasn’t going to be shown in a scope theater that we have to make up our own minds on what to do to best watch this new media on our home projection theaters.

In suggesting this show works well at 2.0:1 with some cropping to the expansion parts it sounds to me you are suggesting exactly what I do with my PIA presentation methods when dealing with modern TV.
Are you embracing the concept?


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> In suggesting this show works well at 2.0:1 with some cropping to the expansion parts it sounds to me you are suggesting exactly what I do with my PIA presentation methods when dealing with modern TV.
> Are you embracing the concept?


Bud, you are exasperating. You know that, right? 

I would not use the word "embrace." It's more of an unfortunate and unwanted compromise.


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## bud16415

I agree it is an unfortunate and unwanted compromise.

I’m not the guy producing or directing TV and movies in a dozen different ARs that sometime change back and forth whenever they feel there is some artistic reason to do so. I’m just a guy trying to figure out how to best deal with all this craziness.

I haven’t started watching Jupiter’s Legacy yet but I will likely set the width for scope as you suggest watching those parts as scope work well and I know no matter how badly a director wants to go taller with TV he is stuck inside a 16:9 window. I like you will likely think it was a stupid choice as it is not IMAX like, but it will be big but I wont have to figure out how much to chop off just how much I want to look at as it will all be displayed.
My mom used to say I was exasperating when I was a kid.


----------



## johnhelvete

The Cleaning Lady (Fox) new upcoming midseason 2022 drama. 2.00:1

Of the four trailers released today by Fox for their Upfront, The Cleaning Lady is the only trailer wider than 16:9.


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## Josh Z

I've updated the listing for Master of None to indicate that season 3 has moved to a 4:3 pillarboxed aspect ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

Epix has been playing trailers for the new historical drama Domina letterboxed to 2.0:1, but other trailers and clips I've found on YouTube are full-screen 16:9. The show already aired earlier this month in the UK and Europe. Has anyone here seen it and can confirm the aspect ratio?


----------



## Josh Z

AMC Premiere and Sundance Now stream a British thriller series called Riviera starring Julia Stiles. It's been on for three seasons. Trailers and clips on YouTube are all over the place for aspect ratio. Some are 2.35:1, some 2.20:1, some 2.0:1, and many full-screen 16:9. Has anyone actually watched this show? I don't subscribe to either streamer and can't confirm.

Edit: Amazon Prime offers the first episode as a free sample. From that, it appears that Season 1 at least is regular 16:9. Still need confirmation on whether the aspect ratio changes in Seasons 2 or 3, though.


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## Josh Z

I could still use clearer confirmation, but Blade005 in the HDTV Programming forum says Riviera appears to be 16:9 in the first two seasons and slightly letterboxed (he isn't sure of the exact ratio) for season 3. I'm assuming that S3 is probably 2.0:1 until someone who subscribes to AMC Premiere, AMC+, or Sundance Now can check it out and confirm.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

Marvel Television's Inhumans (remember that epic fail) was in 1.90:1 for its first two episodes but only in its limited IMAX release so I'm not sure if it even counts.
Also, Sonic Colors: Rise of the Wisps is an upcoming animated miniseries (probably on YouTube) in an aspect ratio of I think 2.11:1 but it is only two short episodes so far, but I have a hunch they would make more episodes after Sonic Colors Ultimate's release depending on the fan reception.
The first episode would release in Summer 2021 before the launch of Sonic Colors Ultimate.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Marvel Television's Inhumans (remember that epic fail) was in 1.90:1 for its first two episodes but only in its limited IMAX release so I'm not sure if it even counts.


The show's broadcast and Blu-ray releases were both 16:9, so I don't think that qualifies for this list. The brief IMAX theatrical run was simply cropped.



> Also, Sonic Colors: Rise of the Wisps is an upcoming animated miniseries (probably on YouTube) in an aspect ratio of I think 2.11:1 but it is only two short episodes so far, but I have a hunch they would make more episodes after Sonic Colors Ultimate's release depending on the fan reception.
> The first episode would release in Summer 2021 before the launch of Sonic Colors Ultimate.


With just two episodes, I'm not going to add it to the list yet. But if more get made, I can add it then. Thanks.


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## Hydra Spectre

Here's what's confusing with Marvel Studios' Legends, the episodes are made in batches to promote the next MCU installment.
The WandaVision episodes (S01E01 - S01E02) are both constant 2.35:1 but The Falcon and the Winter Soldier episodes (S01E03 - S01E06) have a 16:9 opening and are 2.35:1 for the rest of the episodes. And Loki has a 16:9 opening while the actual footage varies between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 depending on the aspect ratio of the source film.

Loki also has scenes that extend beyond the 2.35:1 frame, with some 4:3 and 16:9 scenes just like WandaVision.

Netflix's Trese is in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio.


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## Hydra Spectre

I found another K-drama in widescreen: The Penthouse.
AFAIK it isn't airing in the US anywhere but it is in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio.


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## Hydra Spectre

Another K-Drama, Romantic Doctor 2, is in 2.00:1 but I'm not sure if it is on US Netflix.
It is in Netflix Philippines, though.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Another K-Drama, Romantic Doctor 2, is in 2.00:1 but I'm not sure if it is on US Netflix.
> It is in Netflix Philippines, though.


Am I correct that this show is also known as Dr. Romantic 2? Just want to be sure it's the same show. It is not on Netflix in the U.S. but it seems to be on Netflix in other countries.


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## Hydra Spectre

Yes, it is also known as Dr. Romantic 2. It is on Netflix in other countries.


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## EdgarQ

Thank you for this thread and member comments, weirdly I don't think there's another resource for this data. Josh, if you're taking requests, it would be interesting to tie this data into a couple of charts that show the overall volume of shows at each aspect ratio, and their growth over time. The value would be in having the correct lens memory settings for emerging trends. 

Just taking this thread in as is, it's prompted me to create a new lens memory at 2.00:1, which I didn't have before, and would end up losing part of the image on some shows (I had 1.77:1, 2.20:1, and 2.35:1). Some light research calls this 2.00:1 aspect ratio "Univisium," which is an awkward mouthful. Like the British pronunciation and spelling of "aluminium." No wonder it's not widely used. And too bad that "Univision" already means something else! But that's what I'm labeling it in my Harmony Elite. On second thought, maybe that means I actually like the weird name. I didn't quite realize that until this point in writing this post. Hmm!


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## Josh Z

EdgarQ said:


> Thank you for this thread and member comments, weirdly I don't think there's another resource for this data. Josh, if you're taking requests, it would be interesting to tie this data into a couple of charts that show the overall volume of shows at each aspect ratio, and their growth over time. The value would be in having the correct lens memory settings for emerging trends.


Unfortunately, this gets kind of messy when you take into account all the shows that have a variable ratio or change aspect ratio from season to season (or some from episode to episode).

Recently, Amazon's Small Axe had a different ratio for every episode, while WandaVision and Loki on Disney+ vary ratio from scene to scene within episodes.



> Just taking this thread in as is, it's prompted me to create a new lens memory at 2.00:1, which I didn't have before, and would end up losing part of the image on some shows (I had 1.77:1, 2.20:1, and 2.35:1). Some light research calls this 2.00:1 aspect ratio "Univisium," which is an awkward mouthful. Like the British pronunciation and spelling of "aluminium." No wonder it's not widely used. And too bad that "Univision" already means something else! But that's what I'm labeling it in my Harmony Elite. On second thought, maybe that means I actually like the weird name. I didn't quite realize that until this point in writing this post. Hmm!


"Univsium" is not an official name. The term was coined by Italian cinematographer Vittorio Storaro, who has championed 2.00:1 as a universal aspect ratio halfway between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1. He believes that all motion picture content should be photographed at that golden ratio. He loves it so much that he has even retroactively cropped some of his old movies (most notoriously The Last Emperor and Apocalypse Now) to comply with this kooky theory.

When 2.00:1 started gaining traction as a favored aspect ratio for streaming services, some fans remembered Storaro's words and started using the name for anything photographed or matted to 2.00:1.


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## Hydra Spectre

One of the very first films in the Univisium aspect ratio (as Toho Pan Scope) was the Toho kaiju film Varan the Unbelievable in 1958.


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## Hydra Spectre

Zenimation on Disney+ is made up of old footage from Walt Disney Animation Studios films and the aspect ratio changes between various aspect ratios all in a constant height 2.35:1 container.


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## Snek Plowskin

I just used a permanent marker and colored in 2:35 borders on my TV, everything is in this ratio now.


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## ScottAvery

Josh Z said:


> Italian cinematographer Vittorio Storaro, who has championed 2.00:1 as a universal aspect ratio halfway between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1. He believes that all motion picture content should be photographed at that golden ratio.


I give Christopher Nolan a pass, but the the latest AR kook award goes to Snyder and the !)_^$!_^& conversion of Justice League to IMAX, and not at all at comfortable framing.


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## Hydra Spectre

Wallace & Gromit can be considered a TV series with the theatrical movie The Curse of the Were-Rabbit being a special episode.
The first three shorts/episodes were in a 4:3 aspect ratio (with the third one, A Close Shave, getting cropped to 1.66:1 for later releases) and the fourth short/episode A Matter of Loaf and Death is in 16:9 but The Curse of the Were-Rabbit, which some consider to be a special episode in a 1.85:1 aspect ratio (just like how HBO's Euphoria's regular episodes are in a 4:3/1.66:1/16:9 presentation while the two special episodes are in 1.85:1).

Paradoxically, 1.66:1 can also be considered a cinematic aspect ratio (mostly from older European films, Wong Kar Wai films and classic Disney films) that is rarely used on TV so I vote to include 1.66:1 in this list even if it is technically narrower than 16:9. Therefore also making the standard episodes of the Euphoria series can also belong in this 1.66:1 list since some scenes there are 1.66:1.

And even if Were-Rabbit doesn't count as a special episode of a series, A Close Shave is definitely another episode of the Wallace & Gromit series and its HD remaster is in a 1.66:1 aspect ratio. I also find the 1.66:1 aspect ratio to be tighter and more cinematic than the open matte 4:3 presentation of the original TV broadcast and older releases.
In fact, since the short premiered in cinemas before airing on TV, I am guessing that 1.66:1 was the original presentation with 4:3 being an open matte presentation.
My HTPC setup considers the Original Trilogy and A Matter of Loaf and Death to be the main Wallace & Gromit episodes with The Curse of the Were-Rabbit being a special episode, with Wallace & Gromit as a whole being a TV series, and Were-Rabbit is not considered a separate film.

Wallace & Gromit aired on BBC in the UK with reruns being very common during Christmastime.

Anyways, Fox's Legion has a variable aspect ratio between 16:9 and 2.35:1.

And here's a slew of widescreen retro anime.
Also, the anime Betterman has a 1.85:1 aspect ratio all the way back in 1999. I'm not sure where it was released in North America but it aired on TV Tokyo.
The hentai OVA Bride of Darkness was also in 1.85:1 but it was only two episodes and was a direct-to-video OVA.
Dragon Ball Z's Japanese LaserDisc releases were also matted to 1.85:1 but only the LaserDisc releases, and the pre-30th Anniversary FUNimation Blu-rays would also be matted but to 16:9.
The OVA B.B. Fish: Blue Butterfly Fish but it was a one-shot OVA.


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## Josh Z

Wallace & Gromit consists of theatrical shorts and a feature film. They may have aired on TV later, but so do almost all theatrical movies. I would not consider that a TV series.

Euphoria and Legion are already on the list.

I need to look into those anime titles to figure out how they should be handled. Thanks.


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## Hydra Spectre

Neon Genesis Evangelion is a 4:3 series but the movie The End of Evangelion was slightly modified and split into two TV episodes for its Japanese VHS/LaserDisc/DVD release, with the releases alternating between the TV Episode 25: The Ending World, the movie Episode 25’: Air, the TV Episode 26: The Beast That Shouted ‘I’ at the Heart of the World, and the movie Episode 26’: I Give My Heart to You.
Episode 25’: Air and Episode 26’: I Give My Heart to You are both in 1.85:1 on these earlier Japanese home video releases as well as the theatrical film home video releases which were released separately and had some differences compared to the split home video versions but they would be slightly opened up to 16:9 for the Blu-ray release, for both the theatrical films and the video versions of Episodes 25’ and 26’.

Evangelion originally aired on TV Tokyo in Japan and streams on Netflix internationally but these 1.85:1 EoE video episodes are only on Japanese VHS, LaserDisc and very early DVDs while the EoE video episodes are in 16:9 on Blu-ray, the first time they were re-released since the very first DVD release back in 1999.

The video version of these movie episodes are known as the Genesis versions from the Genesis 0:# VHS and LaserDisc releases in Japan.

I am not sure if Fear Street qualifies as a miniseries since 20th Century Fox made the film trilogy for a theatrical release until the pandemic threw things around and made Disney sell the rights to the trilogy to Netflix, just like what they did to The Woman in the Window. They also sold Everybody's Talking About Jamie to Amazon Studios.

I personally don't consider Fear Street a TV series if your logic regarding how Wallace & Gromit is not a TV series due to consisting of theatrical shorts and a "special" which is actually a theatrical feature film is to be taken to consideration, because the films were still made with a theatrical release in mind and a theatrical release may still be possible from Disney.

Netflix doesn't consider the Fear Street Trilogy to be a miniseries, and Aardman doesn't consider the Wallace & Gromit franchise to be a TV series, but they can both be considered TV series by some standards. Either none of them are TV series or both of them are TV series.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Neon Genesis Evangelion is a 4:3 series but the movie The End of Evangelion was slightly modified and split into two TV episodes for its Japanese VHS/LaserDisc/DVD release, with the releases alternating between the TV Episode 25: The Ending World, the movie Episode 25’: Air, the TV Episode 26: The Beast That Shouted ‘I’ at the Heart of the World, and the movie Episode 26’: I Give My Heart to You.
> Episode 25’: Air and Episode 26’: I Give My Heart to You are both in 1.85:1 on these earlier Japanese home video releases as well as the theatrical film home video releases which were released separately and had some differences compared to the split home video versions but they would be slightly opened up to 16:9 for the Blu-ray release, for both the theatrical films and the video versions of Episodes 25’ and 26’.


I'm very familiar with Evangelion. But, again, Death & Rebirth and End of Evangelion were both theatrical features before they aired on television. Every movie airs on television eventually. James Bond is not a "TV series" even though all the movies have played on TV after theaters.

Even if we argue that End of Eva was altered and split into two parts to make a special TV version, it's still only two episodes, and I'm trying to hold this list to programs with three episodes or more. Tarantino's The Hateful Eight at least had four parts when Netflix turned it into a "miniseries."



> I am not sure if Fear Street qualifies as a miniseries since 20th Century Fox made the film trilogy for a theatrical release until the pandemic threw things around and made Disney sell the rights to the trilogy to Netflix, just like what they did to The Woman in the Window. They also sold Everybody's Talking About Jamie to Amazon Studios.


The difference here is that Fear Street _didn't_ play in theaters. It was redirected straight to Netflix, and the "movies" are premiering one right after another, much like a TV series. 

I'll admit this one is debatable. But my inclination for now is to leave Fear Street on the list, but not include Wallace & Gromit or Evangelion.


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## Hydra Spectre

End of Eva was and split into two episodes as part of the main series on VHS/LaserDisc rather than a 2-part special. These home video releases as part of the Japanese Genesis 0:13/Genesis 0:14 VHS/LaserDisc releases and the first release of Volume 7 on DVD can be considered episodes of the TV series, or at least special episodes like with Euphoria.
The EoE VHS/LaserDisc release was not as a special "miniseries" but as part of the main series itself or at least as special episodes but not as a separate miniseries.

And you include shows like The Romanoffs, Codename: Kids Next Door and Euphoria that are mostly 16:9/4:3 shows with less than three widescreen episodes.


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## Hydra Spectre

How about some popular YouTube channels? Linus Tech Tips' latest videos are in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio and while Scott the Woz's videos are mostly 16:9 with a border, they have some 4:3 scenes and there is a border that keeps changing size in the special 200th episode Borderline Forever, and as you can guess, said border is a plot point in this episode, though said video is still 16:9 even with the variable sized border.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Also, the anime Betterman has a 1.85:1 aspect ratio all the way back in 1999. I'm not sure where it was released in North America but it aired on TV Tokyo.
> The hentai OVA Bride of Darkness was also in 1.85:1 but it was only two episodes and was a direct-to-video OVA.
> Dragon Ball Z's Japanese LaserDisc releases were also matted to 1.85:1 but only the LaserDisc releases, and the pre-30th Anniversary FUNimation Blu-rays would also be matted but to 16:9.
> The OVA B.B. Fish: Blue Butterfly Fish but it was a one-shot OVA.


Circling back on this. I've added Betterman to the list under Misc. because it was a TV show with more than three episodes. The OVAs don't qualify by the criteria I've set. Dragon Ball Z, I'm inclined to say that the Laserdiscs were just overmatted in error. In any case, if the only "wider than 16:9" versions of those episodes were on Laserdisc and all TV/streaming distribution and modern home video releases are either 4:3 or 16:9, that's maybe a footnote. Interesting from a historical perspective but not all that relevant to a modern home theater viewer.



Hydra Spectre said:


> And you include shows like The Romanoffs, Codename: Kids Next Door and Euphoria that are mostly 16:9/4:3 shows with less than three widescreen episodes.


Admittedly, we're getting into the weeds here. My rationale for including those on the list was that they are indisputably TV shows. Once something qualifies for the definition of being a TV show, even one letterboxed episode is relevant.

I do not consider something with less than three episodes to be a "TV show" or even a "miniseries." That's a movie in one or two parts.

I also cannot bring myself to consider a theatrical movie based on, or sequel to, a TV show to be an "episode" of that show. For me, there's a line in the sand between TV shows and theatrical movies. For example: The X-Files was a TV show. The X-Files: Fight the Future was a theatrical feature based on the TV show. It's not an episode of the show, even if it did eventually air on TV. That's where I stand on End of Evangelion as well.

End of Eva really muddies things up by the fact that the film is broken into halves called "episodes." I believe Kideaki Anno has described the film as a remake of the last two episodes of the series. And yes, the movie has sometimes been bundled with the rest of the TV series on home video. Neverthess, it was always envisioned and created as a theatrical feature film. It played in theaters. People paid money for tickets to see it. That separates it from the rest of the series.

On a personal aside, I just want to note that I appreciate this debate. I don't see this as an argument, even if I ultimately don't implement all of your suggestions. On the one hand, I do want the list to be thorough. But on the other, some of these one-off exceptions go beyond the original intent of the list.



Hydra Spectre said:


> How about some popular YouTube channels? Linus Tech Tips' latest videos are in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio and while Scott the Woz's videos are mostly 16:9 with a border, they have some 4:3 scenes and there is a border that keeps changing size in the special 200th episode Borderline Forever, and as you can guess, said border is a plot point in this episode, though said video is still 16:9 even with the variable sized border.


I am completely in the dark on these. What kind of videos are they? This seems like another huge gray area.


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## Hydra Spectre

Linus Tech Tips is a tech YouTube channel with new videos mostly weekly.
TheTVDB.com has it listed as a TV series:





Linus Tech Tips - TheTVDB.com







www.thetvdb.com





Scott the Woz is a YouTube comedy variety show focused on gaming topics.
Again, the show has new episodes weekly and they are even sorted under seasons with some specials:


https://www.youtube.com/c/scottthewoz



And here's TheTVDB for Scott the Woz:





Scott The Woz - TheTVDB.com







www.thetvdb.com





Again, his videos are mostly technically 16:9 with 4:3 footage from older games and from the special The Internet and You but they have a blue border around most episodes that can vary in size and the blue border actually affects the plot of S05E05 (overall Episode 200) Borderline Forever where it also changes size. The aspect ratio can also be brought up when breaking the fourth wall because it's that kind of show.

I use TheTVDB.com to determine if it is counted as a series most of the time.

And if you only count modern TV/distribution and modern home video formats, than End of Eva won't count since the home video series version of the movie is in 16:9.
That said, I hope you can consider 1.66:1 one of these wider aspect ratios even though it is technically narrower than 16:9 just because of how rare it is.
When this happens, The Beatles: Get Back should be counted here since it looks like it's mostly 1.66:1. It was going to get a theatrical release but it is going to be a 3-part miniseries on Disney+ now with episodes released daily.

In fact, anything that has an aspect ratio that isn't 4:3 or 16:9 should be here, especially because you counted a series in a vertical aspect ratio of 1.1:78

On the other hand, TheTVDB.com also counts Wallace & Gromit as a TV series even though they were theatrical shorts.
There is justification in that the wide releases are on TV and the theatrical showings were very limited premieres (mostly in arthouse/animation film festivals) but still.
Then again, they do count theatrical shorts like Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes as TV series even though they are not made for TV until later iterations.

The new Netflix documentary series Naomi Osaka is in a 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

Crazy Ex Girlfriend from CW is also VAR between 4:3/16:9/2.35:1, not CIH safe.

The Speed Force scenes in Crisis on Infinite Earths on CW are in 2.35:1 while the rest of the series is 16:9 like the rest of the Arrowverse.

The K-Drama My Mister is in 1.85:1 but I am not sure where it aired. The series is available with English fansubs but we don't count that.

The anime series Nisekoi has some 2.35:1 scenes even though most of the show is in 16:9.


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## johnhelvete

Contrary to the promos and clips online, Fox's Fantasy Island reboot is 2.00:1 (or at least the pilot episode).

L Word: Generation Q. Season 1 is also widescreen.


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## Hydra Spectre

The series CODA on Apple TV+ is in 1.85:1.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The series CODA on Apple TV+ is in 1.85:1.


If I'm not mistaken, CODA is a one-off movie, not a series.


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## Josh Z

Trailers for HBO Max's reality competition show The Hype are entirely 2.35:1, but the show's episodes are actually variable ratio 16:9/2.35:1 (not CIH safe). I can't update the list right at this moment, but will do so when I get the chance.

Edit: Update made.


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## Hydra Spectre

Don't F**k with Cats also has some 16:9 and 4:3 scenes pillarboxed within a 2.35:1 frame.


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## Hydra Spectre

bilibili/FUNimation's Link Click is in 2.35:1. A rare example of an anime in an aspect ratio wider than 16:9.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> bilibili/FUNimation's Link Click is in 2.35:1. A rare example of an anime in an aspect ratio wider than 16:9.


Where is this viewable in the U.S.?


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## johnhelvete

The new season of Dexter, aka Dexter: New Blood. Trailer appears to be 2.35:1. Confirmed today during the TCA panel for the series that the season is in a wider aspect ratio.


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## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> Where is this viewable in the U.S.?


As I said, FUNimation. They have their own streaming service, but most of their shows are also on Hulu.


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## Josh Z

I'm adding Peacock's The Lost Symbol to the list with the caveat that the show has conflicting trailers. The first trailer was standard 16:9, while the second is 2.0:1. We'll see which way the show actually goes when it premieres.


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## Hydra Spectre

The K-drama Oh My Baby is in 2.35:1 but I don't know where it airs in the US.
It is airing on the GMA Network here in the Philippines.


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## mttmax

New & Upcoming (Wider than 2.00:1):

Haweye (2.35, Display+)
Modern Love (Season 2) (2.35, Amazon) [Season 1 is 2.00:1]
Sweet Tooth (2.20, Netflix)
Halston (2.35, Netflix)
Back to Life (2.35, Showtime)
Yellowjackets (2.35, Showtime)


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> I'm adding Peacock's The Lost Symbol to the list with the caveat that the show has conflicting trailers. The first trailer was standard 16:9, while the second is 2.0:1. We'll see which way the show actually goes when it premieres.


The Lost Symbol removed from list. The show is actually 16:9.


----------



## mttmax

Netflix has released a trailer for the third and final season of *Lost in Space*, which is in 2.35:1.
Strangely, the show's AP has been switching more wider from seasons: S1 is 2.00:1 , S2 is 2.20:1, and 2.35 for S3.


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## Hydra Spectre

Tale of the Nine Tailed is in 2.35:1 but I am not sure if it is on Netflix in the US. It is on Netflix here in the Philippines in its original Korean language and it originally aired on tvN.

A heavily butchered and edited Filipino dub (imagine 4Kids tier editing and erasure of the native culture mixed with Big Green dub-tier acting but in Filipino, but this is done for live action Korean dramas) also airs here on the GMA Network.

They even replace the theme songs with completely different Tagalog songs in these Philippine TV dubs that don't hold a candle to the original Korean songs. They even give Korean people Spanish names so that they would seem more local. Truly the 4Kids treatment, you are just missing a cringy rap opening, but that's not too far off.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The Lost Symbol removed from list. The show is actually 16:9.


Episodes 2,3+4 are all 2.00:1. I double checked the pilot and that is 16:9.


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## Hydra Spectre

What If...? expands to 16:9 in one sequence in the 5th episode "What If... Zombies?!".


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Episodes 2,3+4 are all 2.00:1. I double checked the pilot and that is 16:9.


Thanks. I've added The Lost Symbol back to the list.


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## Hydra Spectre

Maya and the Three has some frame-breaking effects even if it is 2.35:1.


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## Hydra Spectre

The YouTube series Scott the Woz is mostly 16:9 but with some 1.11:1, 4:3, 1.50:1 and 2.35:1 clips.
And there is a blue border around the entire series most of the time, which is brought up as a plot element in the feature-length episode Borderline Forever (S05E05).

Chris Chan: A Comprehensive History, a YouTube documentary series has a variable aspect ratio of anywhere between 4:3 and 16:9, especially during the earlier episodes/sagas.

The My Life in Gaming YouTube show also has a variable aspect ratio, again, ranging from 1.11:1 (Game Boy) to 4:3 (most retro consoles), 1.50:1 (GBA) and 16:9 or even wider.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The YouTube series Scott the Woz is mostly 16:9 but with some 1.11:1, 4:3, 1.50:1 and 2.35:1 clips.
> And there is a blue border around the entire series most of the time, which is brought up as a plot element in the feature-length episode Borderline Forever (S05E05).
> 
> Chris Chan: A Comprehensive History, a YouTube documentary series has a variable aspect ratio of anywhere between 4:3 and 16:9, especially during the earlier episodes/sagas.
> 
> The My Life in Gaming YouTube show also has a variable aspect ratio, again, ranging from 1.11:1 (Game Boy) to 4:3 (most retro consoles), 1.50:1 (GBA) and 16:9 or even wider.


I'm still not sure what to do with these YouTube things. I'm not sure I really consider them to be TV shows in the traditional sense.


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## bud16415

You Tube is really all things to all people. Every year I stream live or watch recorded the CrossFit Games. Each day is like a live 12 hour TV sports show. I’m sure there are a million such things on there as well. I have watched full length motion pictures on there as well. Then there are some really strange streaming sites that only work a few days out of the year like The Masters Golf Tournament on its own hosting. For 5 days it is amazing and like the future of TV sports as it lets you select what you want to watch of the action.

There really isn’t a definition of what TV is any more. When I think of TV content I think of OTA TV, and when I think what is a TV I think of the black 16:9 box you hang on the wall. I see now satellite TV is pushing their service streaming. I have one internet provider but I stream my cable from another provider where I have another home.
You Tube is as much TV as Netflix or Amazon IMO.


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## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> I'm still not sure what to do with these YouTube things. I'm not sure I really consider them to be TV shows in the traditional sense.


These are considered to be actual series that air on YouTube instead of a subscription-based streaming service, network TV or cable.

Hell, the local soap operas here in the Philippines (nicknamed teleseryes, but I just call them "glimpses into hell" because of how messed up and depraved they are [almost on par with the likes of A Serbian Film and Cuties] as well as containing a ton of and actively endorsing all sorts of bigotry like racism, sexism, ableism and homophobia) have editing and production values that would be seen as amateurish and subpar by 2008 YouTube standards (around the dawn of the AVGN and Nostalgia Critic) yet they have oversaturated marketing and they air on national TV here and are aired by the local networks which are megacorporations that own huge portions of the Philippines.

Even better, our local soap operas boast that they have Hollywood-tier production values when they are fantasy adventures, despite containing CGI worse than what was possible on the Sega Genesis (without any addons). By their metrics of quality, Scott the Woz, and the Angry Video Game Nerd are both on the top tier with Marvel Studios' series.

Speaking of which, I would also include Nostalgia Critic here, since the episodes of his series could be anything from 4:3 to 16:9 to 2.35:1, and much more.
Not sure if I would also include The Angry Video Game Nerd but his show is variable aspect ratio once again (mostly 4:3 and 16:9 but they may go anywhere in between or even narrower or wider).

For me, if it's qualified as a TV series on TheTVDB.org and did not originally air on cinemas (like Looney Tunes, which they consider a TV series despite being theatrical shorts), it counts, even if it is some YouTube series. Chris Chan: A Comprehensive History, My Life in Gaming, Scott the Woz, Nostalgia Critic, and The Angry Video Game Nerd are all TV series.
Plus, Scott the Woz episodes are now airing on TV, on G4.


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## bud16415

If you have a TV and you can play it on a TV it is a TV show.

Now I believe this thread was started as an aid to people with CIH projection screens and projectors. The original intent was to select “TV Shows and series” that would play well as if they were motion pictures and best fit into the CIH framework.

It became a personal choice as TV directors seldom recommend the method of presentation to use for their work other than they assume it will play on a TV and then they have to assume it will be CIW. So even though we may chose to watch Stranger Things 2.0:1 the height of our CIH screens and in doing so we believe it looks best a little larger than another TV show like Game of Thrones 16:9 there is no rule we are following in doing that.

Once we throw out the rules for TV I found some of this TV stuff doesn’t belong more immersive than others or even as immersive as a flat motion picture. I still watch them on my projector when I watch them but sometimes make TV as if it was TV immersive not motion picture immersive.
Just because a TV show is wider than 16:9 in AR doesn’t mean it should be as tall.


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## Josh Z

The other issue I have is that I don't know that I necessarily consider a show that uses letterboxed or pillarboxed clips from other shows, movies, video games, etc. to be "Variable Ratio." I mean, I guess technically the aspect ratio is different while the clip is playing, but that's not really the same thing as a series that uses a wider aspect ratio or changes the ratio for a purposeful artistic effect.

If we're really going to consider use of clips to be variable aspect ratio, then I guess Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood type shows that play movie clips and trailers need to be added to the list. Not to mention every Dateline, 20/20, etc. newsmagazine that has ever cut old camcorder or home movie footage into a story.

All of that strays pretty far from the intent of this list, IMO.


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## Hydra Spectre

I see. Well, Scott the Woz does actually go to 4:3 for artistic effect in some scenes and there is a blue border across most of each episode.


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## johnhelvete

In My Skin season 2. Hulu for some weird reason is streaming the episodes in 16:9. I checked online and found episodes that are in the correct aspect ratio that I assume are from BBC Three.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> In My Skin season 2. Hulu for some weird reason is streaming the episodes in 16:9. I checked online and found episodes that are in the correct aspect ratio that I assume are from BBC Three.


I've added a note next to that entry, thanks.


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## Hydra Spectre

gen:LOCK is 2.35:1.
It originally aired on Rooster Teeth for Season 1 with edited reruns on Adult Swim while Season 2 airs first on HBO Max and on Rooster Teeth for FIRST members 90 days later.


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## Hydra Spectre

Frank Herbert's Dune was shot in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio but was broadcast and released on home video in a cropped 16:9.
Should it still be included just because it was shot in 2.00:1? A future release can possibly have the full 2.00:1 aspect ratio.
Not sure if Frank Herbert's Children of Dune was shot in 2.00:1 or 16:9.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Frank Herbert's Dune was shot in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio but was broadcast and released on home video in a cropped 16:9.
> Should it still be included just because it was shot in 2.00:1.
> Not sure if Frank Herbert's Children of Dune was shot in 2.00:1 or 16:9.


I remember Vittorio Storaro talking about how he composed that miniseries for his "Univisium" format, but the network disagreed with him and released it in 16:9. As far as I'm aware, both that miniseries and its sequel have only ever been available in 16:9, either on TV or home video. For that reason, I don't think they apply to this list.

Storaro did not work on Children of Dune in any case. The DP on that one was Arthur Reinhart.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I've added a note next to that entry, thanks.


Hulu with another inconsistency. Ramy season 2, at least for me, was 1.85:1


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Hulu with another inconsistency. Ramy season 2, at least for me, was 1.85:1


The trailers for season 2 were full-screen 16:9. But if you're saying that the actual episodes are 1.85:1, I will update that entry.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The trailers for season 2 were full-screen 16:9. But if you're saying that the actual episodes are 1.85:1, I will update that entry.


I recently watched both seasons of Ramy and season 2 was the same aspect ratio, 1.85:1, as season 1.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> I recently watched both seasons of Ramy and season 2 was the same aspect ratio, 1.85:1, as season 1.


Thanks. I don't subscribe to Hulu, so all I had to go by were the trailers, which are sometimes inaccurate.


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## Hydra Spectre

Season 2 of Euphoria (at least judging from the first episode) is in 1.85:1.


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## Josh Z

Josh Z said:


> I'm finding conflicting trailers for the Hulu series Dollface. Some are 16:9 and some are letterboxed to 2.0:1. I don't subscribe to Hulu. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> Likewise, trailers for Ramy season 1 are 1.85:1 while those for season 2 are 16:9. Is that accurate?
> 
> Edit: I was mostly able to confirm this for myself. Comcast is offering a free trial of both shows as part of "Watchathon Week." Dollface is straight 16:9 while the first season of Ramy is very mildly letterboxed. Unfortunately, the second season of Ramy doesn't premiere until later this month.


The trailer for season 2 of Dollface is 2.00:1, but so were some of the trailers for season 1. I'm adding it to the list for now, but if any Hulu subscribers can provide clarity on the show, please let me know.

Season 2 of Ramy as well, for that matter.


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## johnhelvete

Single Drunk Female (Freeform) The pilot episode was 16:9, the second episode 2.00:1 (and presumably the rest of season 1).


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## johnhelvete

WeCrashed (AppleTV+) teaser trailer is 2.00:1


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## johnhelvete

Shining Girls (AppleTV+) teaser trailer is 2.00:1


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## bud16415

You know how I feel the lines between TV and theater are becoming blurred.

Last night I watched the world premier of Shut In (2022) off YouTube on the IndieWire channel. It is a full-length 2.35:1 motion picture for all intent never intended for theater. Is it TV wider than TV? IMO yes it is. Worthy of projecting that way.
I have a feeling we will be seeing media coming at us from directions like this more and more. IndieWire is a conservative bunch branching out into making movies Hollywood doesn’t want to make. I felt it was a good suspenseful movie rated TVMA. I don’t know if it is on the list yet or if you will want to add it.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> You know how I feel the lines between TV and theater are becoming blurred.
> 
> Last night I watched the world premier of Shut In (2022) off YouTube on the IndieWire channel. It is a full-length 2.35:1 motion picture for all intent never intended for theater. Is it TV wider than TV? IMO yes it is. Worthy of projecting that way.
> I have a feeling we will be seeing media coming at us from directions like this more and more. IndieWire is a conservative bunch branching out into making movies Hollywood doesn’t want to make. I felt it was a good suspenseful movie rated TVMA. I don’t know if it is on the list yet or if you will want to add it.


This list does not contain TV movies, only TV series with at least three episodes.

A TV movie with an aspect ratio wider than 16:9 is far from a rarity. Netflix cranks out about 500 of them a year.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The trailer for season 2 of Dollface is 2.00:1, but so were some of the trailers for season 1. I'm adding it to the list for now, but if any Hulu subscribers can provide clarity on the show, please let me know.
> 
> Season 2 of Ramy as well, for that matter.


Dollface season 2 is 2.00:1, I watched a few minutes of the first episode.


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## Josh Z

This has been a long time coming, but I've just made a major update to the TV Show Aspect Ratio list. The forum software here still limits me to PDF attachments, which is frustrating, but I've made changes to the formatting (including text size) that should improve readability. 

Each network or platform is now on its own separate page. I've also added a column for "Premiere Year" for each of the ~900 shows on the list, which was a lot of work but I think should be helpful. 

Please let me know if you spot any problems or errors. Thanks.


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## dschulz

Josh Z said:


> This has been a long time coming, but I've just made a major update to the TV Show Aspect Ratio list. The forum software here still limits me to PDF attachments, which is frustrating, but I've made changes to the formatting (including text size) that should improve readability.
> 
> Each network or platform is now on its own separate page. I've also added a column for "Premiere Year" for each of the ~900 shows on the list, which was a lot of work but I think should be helpful.
> 
> Please let me know if you spot any problems or errors. Thanks.


Josh, thanks for all the time and effort you put into maintaining these docs. Much appreciated.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> This has been a long time coming, but I've just made a major update to the TV Show Aspect Ratio list. The forum software here still limits me to PDF attachments, which is frustrating, but I've made changes to the formatting (including text size) that should improve readability.
> 
> Each network or platform is now on its own separate page. I've also added a column for "Premiere Year" for each of the ~900 shows on the list, which was a lot of work but I think should be helpful.
> 
> Please let me know if you spot any problems or errors. Thanks.


Second what dschulz said. The upgraded format looks great.


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## bud16415

Looks like Abraham Lincoln (2022) on the history channel is 2.76:1 I think. I watched just a little bit last night in CIH and it looks fantastic.


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## Josh Z

bud16415 said:


> Looks like Abraham Lincoln (2022) on the history channel is 2.76:1 I think. I watched just a little bit last night in CIH and it looks fantastic.


I'm looking at trailers and clips on YouTube, and it looks like the show is variable 16:9 for the "documentary" interviews and 2.69:1 for the re-enactments.


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## johnhelvete

Joe vs. Carole (Peacock). The trailers were not accurate, the episodes are 2.00:1.


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## Josh Z

I've updated the listing for The Boys: Diabolical. Some episodes are 16:9 while others are 2.35:1.

I'm seeing conflicting trailers for The Thing About Pam (NBC). I'm inclined to assume it will be standard 16:9 but will confirm after it airs.


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## Josh Z

The Thing About Pam confirmed as 2.00:1.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> The Thing About Pam confirmed as 2.00:1.


We might have a situation where NBC is airing the episodes full screen/16:9 while Peacock is streaming the episodes in the correct aspect ratio of 2.00:1. I watched the opening scene on NBC last night and I am almost positive that the episode was 16:9. After reading your post I checked Peacock and sure enough the opening scene is 2.00:1. NBC is repeating Pam at 10pm on Friday and hopefully I remember to give it a second look to confirm.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> We might have a situation where NBC is airing the episodes full screen/16:9 while Peacock is streaming the episodes in the correct aspect ratio of 2.00:1. I watched the opening scene on NBC last night and I am almost positive that the episode was 16:9. After reading your post I checked Peacock and sure enough the opening scene is 2.00:1. NBC is repeating Pam at 10pm on Friday and hopefully I remember to give it a second look to confirm.


I pulled up the episode and watched the first couple minutes both via Comcast On-Demand (NBC) and Peacock, and they were both 2.00:1. However, I did not record the linear broadcast, if there was some difference there.

I only checked the first couple minutes. I know that the show is supposed to be part "re-enactment" and part Dateline-style newsmagazine. If it varies ratio between the two parts, I didn't get that far.


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## Josh Z

Trailers for Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds finally dropped today, confirming them both as 2.35:1, as expected.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I pulled up the episode and watched the first couple minutes both via Comcast On-Demand (NBC) and Peacock, and they were both 2.00:1. However, I did not record the linear broadcast, if there was some difference there.
> 
> I only checked the first couple minutes. I know that the show is supposed to be part "re-enactment" and part Dateline-style newsmagazine. If it varies ratio between the two parts, I didn't get that far.


I checked out the repeat tonight. While it was shown in letterbox, the NBC broadcast weirdly was not formated correctly. Instead of having black bars on the bottom and top of the screen equal in size, the bottom was significantly smaller than the top. I made sure that my TV was set to "screen fit" and than compared it to the version on Peacock and on Peacock the episode is 2.00:1 no issues at all. FWIW, there does not appear to be any switching of aspect ratio, 2.00:1 is the correct ratio. Sorry for any confusion. 

Technically The Thing About Pam is the first NBC series in a wider aspect ratio, with Transplant being a Canadian acquisition and not an NBC scripted original. When will CBS and ABC join the other broadcast networks with an original wider than 16:9? CBS has a pilot in contention for next season based on the film True Lies for example, if picked up could that be the first for CBS?


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## dschulz

johnhelvete said:


> I checked out the repeat tonight. While it was shown in letterbox, the NBC broadcast weirdly was not formated correctly. Instead of having black bars on the bottom and top of the screen equal in size, the bottom was significantly smaller than the top. I made sure that my TV was set to "screen fit" and than compared it to the version on Peacock and on Peacock the episode is 2.00:1 no issues at all. FWIW, there does not appear to be any switching of aspect ratio, 2.00:1 is the correct ratio. Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> Technically The Thing About Pam is the first NBC series in a wider aspect ratio, with Transplant being a Canadian acquisition and not an NBC scripted original. When will CBS and ABC join the other broadcast networks with an original wider than 16:9? CBS has a pilot in contention for next season based on the film True Lies for example, if picked up could that be the first for CBS?


I finally watched my TiVo recording of the off-air broadcast, and it was straight up 2.00:1. You're right, it'll be interesting to see if CBS and ABC join the widescreen party.


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## bud16415

dschulz said:


> I finally watched my TiVo recording of the off-air broadcast, and it was straight up 2.00:1. You're right, it'll be interesting to see if CBS and ABC join the widescreen party.


I was watching TV in our living room last night on the 55” flat panel TV. I would say 50% of the commercials were recorded like scope or some wider AR. It seemed quite odd to me they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a minute of prime time to show their product to millions of people watching CIW on TV sets and they chose to give up 30% of the on screen area.

These commercials were very scope like in their cinematography and at no time when I returned to the TV show did I feel like it was overly large or IMAXed. All it felt like is the commercial was a lot smaller and less immersive than I would have liked.

I really think it is no different for a TV show shot in 2.00:1 or 2.35:1. The 2.0:1 seems like an amount they feel they can get away with where people wont complain or notice. Other than folks with CIH projection setups I have never heard anyone say they actually like 2.0:1 better than 16:9.

Now if the people wanting to make “wider” TV not shorter as I view it, want to adjust their cinematography because they know TV sets are getting larger and resolution is getting better so people are sitting closer ether by going with larger screens or actually sitting closer I’m all in favor of that. Keep it 16:9 or change the TV standard to 2.0:1 and start making TVs all over again in the new AR. 
I hope the major networks are smart enough to figure that out, but by the quality of the shows being produced I really wonder.


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## Josh Z

So many trailers are dropping today I can hardly keep up.

Sketchbook - Disney+
We Own This City - HBO
The Pentaverate - Netflix
Heartstopper - Netflix
Ms. Marvel - Disney+ (updated)
Pedal to Metal - Netflix
The Great Robbery of Brazil's Central Bank - Netflix


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## johnhelvete

bud16415 said:


> I was watching TV in our living room last night on the 55” flat panel TV. I would say 50% of the commercials were recorded like scope or some wider AR. It seemed quite odd to me they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a minute of prime time to show their product to millions of people watching CIW on TV sets and they chose to give up 30% of the on screen area.
> 
> These commercials were very scope like in their cinematography and at no time when I returned to the TV show did I feel like it was overly large or IMAXed. All it felt like is the commercial was a lot smaller and less immersive than I would have liked.
> 
> I really think it is no different for a TV show shot in 2.00:1 or 2.35:1. The 2.0:1 seems like an amount they feel they can get away with where people wont complain or notice. Other than folks with CIH projection setups I have never heard anyone say they actually like 2.0:1 better than 16:9.
> 
> Now if the people wanting to make “wider” TV not shorter as I view it, want to adjust their cinematography because they know TV sets are getting larger and resolution is getting better so people are sitting closer ether by going with larger screens or actually sitting closer I’m all in favor of that. Keep it 16:9 or change the TV standard to 2.0:1 and start making TVs all over again in the new AR.
> I hope the major networks are smart enough to figure that out, but by the quality of the shows being produced I really wonder.


I discovered this thread because of my interest in 2.00:1 and I watch everything on a 16:9 television since I do not have a projector setup. I did work at a video store when home video transitioned to DVD, and I dont know if people today realize how lucky there are to watch a 2.35:1film on a 16:9 screen 55 inch TV compared to 4:3 TVs of old. 

That being said, while I do like the 2.00:1 format, if I were to list the top 10 "cinematic" TV shows of the past few years, Mr Robot would be on it, and that series was 16:9 (besides 1-2 episodes in a wider format). A series being in 2.00:1 or 2.35:1 can be a tad overrated. 

Now what I dont understand, TV series in 1.85:1.


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## bud16415

johnhelvete said:


> I discovered this thread because of my interest in 2.00:1 and I watch everything on a 16:9 television since I do not have a projector setup. I did work at a video store when home video transitioned to DVD, and I dont know if people today realize how lucky there are to watch a 2.35:1film on a 16:9 screen 55 inch TV compared to 4:3 TVs of old.
> 
> That being said, while I do like the 2.00:1 format, if I were to list the top 10 "cinematic" TV shows of the past few years, Mr Robot would be on it, and that series was 16:9 (besides 1-2 episodes in a wider format). A series being in 2.00:1 or 2.35:1 can be a tad overrated.
> 
> Now what I dont understand, TV series in 1.85:1.


Oh I remember those days and the solution to 2.35:1 on a 1.33:1 TV was called pan n scan. It ruined great movies but nonetheless some people loved it as that much black bars on a 25-36” TV was too much to take. I still have DVDs printed on both sides with PnS and original AR.

Game of Thrones falls into the category of TV series that took the logical approach and stayed in 1.77:1.

The 1.85:1 is a theatrical AR not to be confused with 1.89:1 that is the new IMAX AR.
Many here are so into being able to zoom something imposable with TVs that they see 2.0:1 as larger/wider than TV.


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## johnhelvete

bud16415 said:


> Oh I remember those days and the solution to 2.35:1 on a 1.33:1 TV was called pan n scan. It ruined great movies but nonetheless some people loved it as that much black bars on a 25-36” TV was too much to take. I still have DVDs printed on both sides with PnS and original AR.
> 
> Game of Thrones falls into the category of TV series that took the logical approach and stayed in 1.77:1.
> 
> The 1.85:1 is a theatrical AR not to be confused with 1.89:1 that is the new IMAX AR.
> Many here are so into being able to zoom something imposable with TVs that they see 2.0:1 as larger/wider than TV.


I always hated pan and scan, which was like watching NYPD Blue but without any rhyme or reason for why the camera kept moving back and forth.

I do know that 1.85:1 is a ratio for movies, what I dont get is why TV series are using that format when it is so close to 1.78:1. For viewers who have their TVs overscan on you can barely even notice black bars on the screen.


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## bud16415

johnhelvete said:


> I always hated pan and scan, which was like watching NYPD Blue but without any rhyme or reason for why the camera kept moving back and forth.
> 
> I do know that 1.85:1 is a ratio for movies, what I dont get is why TV series are using that format when it is so close to 1.78:1. For viewers who have their TVs overscan on you can barely even notice black bars on the screen.


Now picture what modern day pan n scan might look like if someone say had a 100” 16:9 screen and opted to play 2.0:1 shows full height and sacrifice the sides in order to get rid of the black bars. A 109.5 2.0:1 would be the height of a 100” 16:9 and you would cut off 5.5” on each side.

I doubt most people would notice the lost material during 99% of the show.

Not that I’m suggesting doing that but if you pay attention as to what is gained or lost filming in 2.0:1 as opposed to what is the standard 1.77:1, I don’t get what they do it for. Especially when they could still show us the exact same material with a tad of open matte and fill the screen area.
It is I guess an artistic expression trying to be a little bit cinematic. As you mentioned 1.85 is even less. Why do it when the intended audience is 99.99% TV viewers.


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## Mark12547

bud16415 said:


> Oh I remember those days and the solution to 2.35:1 on a 1.33:1 TV was called pan n scan. It ruined great movies but nonetheless some people loved it as that much black bars on a 25-36” TV was too much to take. I still have DVDs printed on both sides with PnS and original AR.


An old (4:3) 21-in TV (16.8" x 12.6") watching a 2.35:1 movie could be displayed in either of these modes:

letterbox: the picture is only 7.1 inches high (56% of the screen), hard to see any detail from 8 feet away, but you see the whole picture, or
pan-and-scan or center-cut: picture is full height of the screen, but one sees only almost 57% of the picture--almost half of the picture is lost and one loses the feel of the breadth of the scene and in some movies critical information can be lost (e. g., in Ben-Hur the closing scene in pan-and-scan one doesn't see believers congregating on the mountain to the side of where he is, causing the impact of the conclusion to be lost)
I can see why on an old 21-in 4:3 screen pan-and-scan may be perceived as a lesser evil of the two options and why early DVDs tended to be more pan-and-scan than letterbox.

On a modern (16:9) 50-in TV (43.6" x 24.5") watching a 2:35:1 movie, the same options translate to:

letterbox: full width but height is 18.6 high (76% of the screen), much better than on the old 4:3 21-in I used to own and one sees the whole picture, or
pan-and-scan or center-cut: picture is full height of the screen, but one sees only 76% of the picture, much better than on a 4:3 TV but still losing a quarter of the picture.
I used to prefer pan-and-scan on my 21-in CRT, but now I prefer letterbox (OAR) on my 50-in LCD/LED TV. (And I finally saw the whole Ben-Hur movie on Blu-ray in letterbox on my 50-in TV, which was when I first found out about the mountain of worship to the right of the main character in the closing moments of the movie.)


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## bud16415

Mark12547 said:


> An old (4:3) 21-in TV (16.8" x 12.6") watching a 2.35:1 movie could be displayed in either of these modes:
> 
> letterbox: the picture is only 7.1 inches high (56% of the screen), hard to see any detail from 8 feet away, but you see the whole picture, or
> pan-and-scan or center-cut: picture is full height of the screen, but one sees only almost 57% of the picture--almost half of the picture is lost and one loses the feel of the breadth of the scene and in some movies critical information can be lost (e. g., in Ben-Hur the closing scene in pan-and-scan one doesn't see believers congregating on the mountain to the side of where he is, causing the impact of the conclusion to be lost)
> I can see why on an old 21-in 4:3 screen pan-and-scan may be perceived as a lesser evil of the two options and why early DVDs tended to be more pan-and-scan than letterbox.
> 
> On a modern (16:9) 50-in TV (43.6" x 24.5") watching a 2:35:1 movie, the same options translate to:
> 
> letterbox: full width but height is 18.6 high (76% of the screen), much better than on the old 4:3 21-in I used to own and one sees the whole picture, or
> pan-and-scan or center-cut: picture is full height of the screen, but one sees only 76% of the picture, much better than on a 4:3 TV but still losing a quarter of the picture.
> I used to prefer pan-and-scan on my 21-in CRT, but now I prefer letterbox (OAR) on my 50-in LCD/LED TV. (And I finally saw the whole Ben-Hur movie on Blu-ray in letterbox on my 50-in TV, which was when I first found out about the mountain of worship to the right of the main character in the closing moments of the movie.)


Correct and a good way to look at how times are changing and with better resolution we are even going with sitting closer and greater immersion. My point was how this new craze of 2.00:1 is even a step closer and why I don’t get the point in it.

CIH is a great form of presentation and those that can’t do it because of room shape and size or they have a projector that doesn’t have the bells and whistles most of the time end up compromising on immersion showing 16:9 slightly larger than they might like and 2.35:1 slightly smaller. The immersion in both cases is still way more than anything from the past they ever had with TV so it all is pretty good.
It is like the difference people see doing CIH and CIA constant image area presentation. It is not as huge a change as one would think. About like watching 2.0:1 material CIH or CIW.


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## Josh Z

Mark12547 said:


> I can see why on an old 21-in 4:3 screen pan-and-scan may be perceived as a lesser evil of the two options and why early DVDs tended to be more pan-and-scan than letterbox.


DVD actually embraced letterboxing and OAR from the start. "Special Widescreen Edition" was a big selling point for the format. While there were some pan & scan discs, most were properly presented.

The failed DIVX competitor format, on the other hand, was mostly pan & scan.


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## Mark12547

Josh Z said:


> DVD actually embraced letterboxing and OAR from the start.


I didn't know that. Most of my DVD viewing started with Netflix in 2002 and back then most of the movie discs Netflix had were pan-and-scan, at least that is how I remember it. Later in 2006 when I got my first Blu-ray player I recall picking Blu-ray discs where available for titles I wanted so I would have a greater chance of watching the movies in their original aspect ratio.


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## johnhelvete

bud16415 said:


> Correct and a good way to look at how times are changing and with better resolution we are even going with sitting closer and greater immersion. My point was how this new craze of 2.00:1 is even a step closer and why I don’t get the point in it.


Not all series filming in 2.00:1 are taking full advantage of the wider aspect to achieve a "cinematic look", and there are examples of "cinematic" TV series, again Mr Robot which I brought up in a previous post, that are almost entirely in 16:9. So I dont think it is a simple 2.00:1 is an automatic shortcut to a TV show being "more cinematic" while 16:9 is boring network television with a flat look. 

This is from an aricle at Vox called "25 episodes that changed television"
"_Miami Vice_ was one of the first programs to really change what TV could do cinematically, putting as much effort into music and mood as it did into character or plot. The two-hour pilot episode culminates in an eerie, lonely nighttime ride set to Phil Collins’s “In the Air Tonight” that practically bottles the feeling of desperate cool. Not every episode would be this stylish, but not every episode had to be. A few carefully chosen bursts of cinematic style could account for a lot, something many other TV shows copied going forward."

The part about "a few carefully chosen bursts of cinematic style" in some ways could apply to filming in 2.00:1. Does every minute of some of these shows benefit from being in a wider aspect ratio like 2.00:1? Perhaps not. However, during key scenes or for series that take advantage of filming on location, I do think having a little bit of a "burst of cinematic style" is a positive.


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## Josh Z

Mark12547 said:


> I didn't know that. Most of my DVD viewing started with Netflix in 2002 and back then most of the movie discs Netflix had were pan-and-scan, at least that is how I remember it. Later in 2006 when I got my first Blu-ray player I recall picking Blu-ray discs where available for titles I wanted so I would have a greater chance of watching the movies in their original aspect ratio.


I think that was mainly a business decision on Netflix's part to prioritize pan & scan editions when possible, because they believed that was what their customer base wanted.

In early 1997, the Blade Runner: Director's Cut in its 2.35:1 OAR was one of the first big breakthrough titles to sell the public on why DVD was better than VHS. (Ironically, that super-compressed disc looks terrible by modern standards.)


----------



## Hydra Spectre

The Korean drama Backstreet Rookie is in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio.
The anime Get Backers is in 1.85:1. I don't think it's currently on streaming anywhere but ADV Films did release it on DVD nearly 20 years ago.


----------



## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The Korean drama Backstreet Rookie is in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio.
> The anime Get Backers is in 1.85:1. I don't think it's currently on streaming anywhere but ADV Films did release it on DVD nearly 20 years ago.


I will add these to the list, thanks. 

Where do you watch Backstreet Rookie? FYI, trailers for the show have an odd ratio of 2.28:1.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> I will add these to the list, thanks.
> 
> Where do you watch Backstreet Rookie? FYI, trailers for the show have an odd ratio of 2.28:1.


Backstreet Rookie airs on GMA 7 here in the Philippines, albeit dubbed.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

New Fist of the North Star is a 3-part OVA (direct-to-video anime series) that was in 1.85:1.
ADV released it on DVD but I don't think it's currently streaming.

The anime series Noir is in 1.85:1 on its original DVD release but the Blu-ray is in 16:9.

Get Backers was actually in 16:9, the 1.85:1 thing is a misprint on Blu-ray.com. I had to look at the trailer on my Evangelion DVDs to confirm.

The Beatles: Get Back is actually VAR 4:3, 1.66:1 and 1.85:1 within a 1.85:1 container.


----------



## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Get Backers was actually in 16:9, the 1.85:1 thing is a misprint on Blu-ray.com. I had to look at the trailer on my Evangelion DVDs to confirm.


The trailers on YouTube are standard-def letterbox, but the image area does measure 1.85:1.


----------



## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The anime series Noir is in 1.85:1 on its original DVD release but the Blu-ray is in 16:9.


I have this show on both formats. I just went rooting through a box in my basement to find the DVD set. I loaded up the first disc, and it's full-screen 16:9, same as the Blu-ray. No letterboxing.


----------



## Josh Z

Does anyone here watch The AfterParty? I don't subscribe to Apple TV+. Trailers for the show are all 2.0:1, but a random comment in another thread mentioned the aspect ratio jumping around between 16:9, 2.0:1, and 2.35:1. Can someone confirm?

Edit: Found some scene clips on YouTube that vary from 1.85:1 to 2.0:1 to 2.353:1. I will update the list.


----------



## johnhelvete

With how prevalent series in a format wider than 16:9 has become on streaming/cable, it is interesting that Starz and AMC have mostly not embraced it. 

Starz. American Gods was the only Starz original with select episodes in a variable 16:9/2.35:1 ratio. Than there was Dublin Murders, a BBC/Starz co-production.

AMC. Soulmates is the the only AMC original. Pretty sure that the rest on the list are acquired series.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> With how prevalent series in a format wider than 16:9 has become on streaming/cable, it is interesting that Starz and AMC have mostly not embraced it.
> 
> Starz. American Gods was the only Starz original with select episodes in a variable 16:9/2.35:1 ratio. Than there was Dublin Murders, a BBC/Starz co-production.
> 
> AMC. Soulmates is the the only AMC original. Pretty sure that the rest on the list are acquired series.


I was thinking about this while watching the teaser for Interview with the Vampire, which would probably be well suited for a wider ratio.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I was thinking about this while watching the teaser for Interview with the Vampire, which would probably be well suited for a wider ratio.


I am at the point now when I watch a trailer for a new cable/streaming drama that my immediate reaction is disappointment if the trailer is 16:9. Under The Banner of Heaven (FX/Hulu) would be my pick for series that has impressed me the most visually based on the trailer this year though and that is 16:9.


----------



## Josh Z

I don't get Apple TV+, but I've heard that episode 7 of Pachinko is 4:3 windowboxed within the 2.20:1 window, with black bars on all four sides. If anyone experiences different results with that episode, let me know.


----------



## Josh Z

Those of you who have been dutifully downloaded my PDFs as I post them, are you about ready for me to host this list on a web page you can visit whenever you want without downloading any documents? Give this comment a like.


----------



## johnhelvete

The CW released trailers for their two new fall dramas.

Walker Independence
The Winchesters

Walker appears to be wider than 2.00:1 and The Winchesters as well.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The CW released trailers for their two new fall dramas.
> 
> Walker Independence
> The Winchesters
> 
> Walker appears to be wider than 2.00:1 and The Winchesters as well.


Thanks. Both appear to be about 2.20:1.

Both shows also look pretty awful, IMO, but I'm not invested in either franchise to begin with.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Thanks. Both appear to be about 2.20:1.
> 
> Both shows also look pretty awful, IMO, but I'm not invested in either franchise to begin with.


I have never watched either of the original series, and I agree that both prequels look not good, with The Winchesters ranking lower (awful voiceover narration).


----------



## Josh Z

I did something very stupid this weekend and actually watched a little of The Pentaverate, Mike Myers' awful new Netflix comedy. Trailers for the show were straight 2.35:1, but it turns out that episodes have both 16:9 and 4:3 sequences spinkled in that extend the full height of the frame and are not CIH safe.

I do these things so you don't have to. You're welcome.


----------



## bud16415

Josh Z said:


> I did something very stupid this weekend and actually watched a little of The Pentaverate, Mike Myers' awful new Netflix comedy. Trailers for the show were straight 2.35:1, but it turns out that episodes have both 16:9 and 4:3 sequences spinkled in that extend the full height of the frame and are not CIH safe.
> 
> I do these things so you don't have to. You're welcome.


I out of curiosity looked up The Pentaverate and watched 15 minutes of it before reaching my Mike Myers quota for the year. It is not my cup of tea as well. Some people love that style of humor though and to each their own.

The weird AR changing didn’t really surprise me as I watch 30 second commercials containing 3 or more AR changes equally as weird. It is a thing of the changing nature of TV and imposable to predict and will drive you crazy if you feel your presentation has to allow for all this weirdness.

I know you don’t agree with my method of presentation but if I were to watch a show or series that went about using AR switching the way this show does my presentation method works perfect. I would simply size it around what was the least annoying size for any given AR and then set it and forget it.
There is no form of cropping that would work. Da Five Bloods is a movie shot very much the same. I don’t expect this to get better only because it is easy to do more directors will be doing this stuff.


----------



## johnhelvete

Three Women (Showtime) teaser trailer was released the same day as the network's trailer for American Gigolo. Appears to be another new series from Showtime in 2.35:1

Interesting that Showtime's format of choice is mostly 2.35:1, the network has almost skipped the "streaming ratio".


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Interesting that Showtime's format of choice is mostly 2.35:1, the network has almost skipped the "streaming ratio".


They do have a few at 2.00:1. Specifically: The First Lady, American Rust, Moonbase 8, The L Word: Generation Q, and a 2020 show called The End. Beyond those, however, you're right that Showtime does favor full scope more often.


----------



## fredxr2d2

A note about Bosch: Legacy on FreeVee: some episodes have subtitles that appear below the edges of the 2:00:1.


----------



## Josh Z

fredxr2d2 said:


> A note about Bosch: Legacy on FreeVee: some episodes have subtitles that appear below the edges of the 2:00:1.


How far below? Are they readable if you zoom the 2.00:1 image to fit the height of the screen?

I've noticed several recent 2.35:1 shows where subtitles dip slightly into the letterbox bar, but are still readable.


----------



## fredxr2d2

Josh Z said:


> How far below? Are they readable if you zoom the 2.00:1 image to fit the height of the screen?
> 
> I've noticed several recent 2.35:1 shows where subtitles dip slightly into the letterbox bar, but are still readable.


I had to open my masking to see them all, if I remember correctly. It meant that I just watched the show with the masking open. (I have a CIW setup, but this list is still useful because I have masking)


----------



## Josh Z

fredxr2d2 said:


> I had to open my masking to see them all, if I remember correctly. It meant that I just watched the show with the masking open. (I have a CIW setup, but this list is still useful because I have masking)


I've added a note to that entry on the list.


----------



## Josh Z

Contrary to the trailers, season 3 of Evil on Paramount+ remains standard 16:9. I've removed it from the list.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Contrary to the trailers, season 3 of Evil on Paramount+ remains standard 16:9. I've removed it from the list.


Interestingly the new opening credits for season 3 are widescreen, 2.35:1. 

Dark Winds (AMC+/AMC) is the opposite. Trailers in standard 16:9, the actual episodes 2.00:1, at least on AMC+, cant speak on the broadcast version on AMC.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Dark Winds (AMC+/AMC) is the opposite. Trailers in standard 16:9, the actual episodes 2.00:1, at least on AMC+, cant speak on the broadcast version on AMC.


Thanks. I recorded that last night but hadn't watched yet. I just cued it up and can confirm that the AMC broadcast is also 2.00:1. I will add to the list.


----------



## fredxr2d2

I'm not sure if Ms. Marvel on Disney+ is truly CIH safe. I noticed there was one scene with images outside of the masking in the first episode, though I can't say I noticed that I "missed" anything important.


----------



## Josh Z

fredxr2d2 said:


> I'm not sure if Ms. Marvel on Disney+ is truly CIH safe. I noticed there was one scene with images outside of the masking in the first episode, though I can't say I noticed that I "missed" anything important.


I just scanned through the episode on a TV and I think I see what you're talking about. I will update the entry to say:

"Series is primarily 2.35:1 with some 1.95:1 sequences that extend beyond the 2.35:1 frame to approx. 2.20:1 height with pillarboxing on the sides. Not CIH safe."

Thanks for catching this.


----------



## Josh Z

Trailers for FX's The Old Man were heavily matted to 2.25:1. The actual show is 2.00:1. I won't have a chance to update the document until next week.


----------



## magi1500

The Terminal List on Amazon is scope.


----------



## Josh Z

magi1500 said:


> The Terminal List on Amazon is scope.


That should already be on the list, thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

I've added a notation that The Umbrella Academy (which is normally 2.00:1) season 3 premiere has one scene letterboxed to 2.35:1. I've only just started the season, so I don't know if other episodes are VAR or just that one.

Update: Ep. 3.05 also has a 2.35:1 scene.


----------



## johnhelvete

Five Days at Memorial (Apple TV+) August 12. Trailer looks to be 2.35:1.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I was thinking about this while watching the teaser for Interview with the Vampire, which would probably be well suited for a wider ratio.


The SDCC trailer for Interview With The Vampire is 2.00:1, perhaps AMC is embracing the streaming ratio after all.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The SDCC trailer for Interview With The Vampire is 2.00:1, perhaps AMC is embracing the streaming ratio after all.


I'm going to hold off adding this to the list, as every other teaser and trailer I've seen for the show have been 16:9.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I'm going to hold off adding this to the list, as every other teaser and trailer I've seen for the show have been 16:9.


Understandable. I would not trust the SDCC trailer either based on the limited number of AMC originals in a wider format. Speaking of AMC, I dont have AMC+ but I was able to check out the first episode of Moonhaven on the Roku channel and the episode is 2.00:1. Per the press release, Moonhaven is an "AMC+ exclusive series".


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Speaking of AMC, I dont have AMC+ but I was able to check out the first episode of Moonhaven on the Roku channel and the episode is 2.00:1. Per the press release, Moonhaven is an "AMC+ exclusive series".


AMC made the first episode of Moonhaven available through multiple outlets to promote the series. I watched it on Amazon Prime. My wife watched it on Comcast On-Demand.

I could have sworn I already added that to the list. I will do so tomorrow, thanks.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> I'm going to hold off adding this to the list, as every other teaser and trailer I've seen for the show have been 16:9.


AMC sure does like to keep people guessing. The teaser trailer for Tales of The Walking Dead is 16:9, the Comic Con trailer is 2.00:1. Tales being an episodic anthology series, individual episodes might not have the same aspect ratio.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> AMC sure does like to keep people guessing. The teaser trailer for Tales of The Walking Dead is 16:9, the Comic Con trailer is 2.00.1. Tales being an episodic anthology series, individual episodes might not have the same aspect ratio.


That's the one exclusive to Hulu, right? I don't subscribe to Hulu, so somebody else will have to check it out and confirm.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> That's the one exclusive to Hulu, right? I don't subscribe to Hulu, so somebody else will have to check it out and confirm.


No Tales is AMC/AMC+. FWIW, I currently have Hulu and if you ever need me to check a series I would be happy to do it.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> No Tales is AMC/AMC+. FWIW, I currently have Hulu and if you ever need me to check a series I would be happy to do it.


You know what, I think I was confusing it with American Horror Stories.


----------



## johnhelvete

The Bear (FX on Hulu)
Episode 1 is 2.00:1. The rest of the episodes for season 1 are 1.85:1. However, the opening scene of the season finale (aka episode 8) is done in the style of a multi-cam sitcom and is 4:3.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The Bear (FX on Hulu)
> Episode 1 is 2.00:1. The rest of the episodes for season 1 are 1.85:1. However, the opening scene of the season finale (aka episode 8) is done in the style of a multi-cam sitcom and is 4:3.


And just to confuse matters further, every trailer for the show is plain 16:9. Ugh.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

The classic Hideaki Anno OVA GunBuster is mostly in 4:3 and in colour but the final episode is in black and white and 2.00:1 letterboxed in a 4:3 container. The Blu-ray has windowboxing on all sides for this episode, as it is 2.00:1 in a 4:3 container in a 16:9 container.
An open matte 4:3 version of this episode is included on the Blu-ray as a bonus.


----------



## Josh Z

Despite conflicting trailers, A League of Their Own is standard 16:9 and will not be added to the list.

I'm going to hold off on Tales of the Walking Dead until it airs, because I suspect that one is also 16:9. However, I'll be traveling this weekend and probably won't be able to check it until mid next week.


----------



## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> Despite conflicting trailers, A League of Their Own is standard 16:9 and will not be added to the list.
> 
> I'm going to hold off on Tales of the Walking Dead until it airs, because I suspect that one is also 16:9. However, I'll be traveling this weekend and probably won't be able to check it until mid next week.


First two episodes of Tales are 2.00:1. Perhaps Interview With The Vampire is going to be wider than 16:9 after all.


----------



## johnhelvete

A Friend of The Family (Peacock) limited series, Oct 6. 1.85:1.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

Hulu true crime show The Act is completely 2.35:1.


----------



## Josh Z

IMPORTANT UPDATE: This thread is now four years old and I have maintained the list of TV shows with aspect ratios wider than 16:9 exclusively here for that entire time. Unfortunately, the needs of updating the list, converting to PDF, and uploading to this thread has become an unwieldy burden. Effective Sept. 1, 2022, the list has been moved to a permanent, regularly-updated web page of its own. You may find it at this link. All future updates will be made at that site.

However, I will continue to check and participate in this thread. Feel free to discuss the contents of the list, or notify me of show's I've missed, at either location. 

If anyone really wants the PDF version, just let me know and I can provide a copy.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

Gunbuster is actually safe to crop to 2:1 for the final episode.
Also, the 3-episode OVA Violence Jack is 1.66:1 letterboxed to 4:3 for the latter two episodes (the first episode is in 4:3). But some copies may be open matte 4:3.
The Discotek Blu-ray version has a 4:3 presentation for the first episode and a selection between 4:3 open matte and 16:9 (completely filling the screen, but cropped a bit more than the original LaserDisc release) presentations of the latter two episodes.


----------



## JonesyG

Once the first two episodes of Rings of Power have aired, I'd love to hear if there are any subtitles displayed in the letterbox bars. (The show is reportedly 2.39:1)

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Also, the 3-episode OVA Violence Jack is 1.66:1 letterboxed to 4:3 for the latter two episodes (the first episode is in 4:3). But some copies may be open matte 4:3.
> The Discotek Blu-ray version has a 4:3 presentation for the first episode and a selection between 4:3 open matte and 16:9 (completely filling the screen, but cropped a bit more than the original LaserDisc release) presentations of the latter two episodes.


This is a little confusing to me, but if I'm reading you right the show did not ever go wider than 16:9. My inclination at this moment is not to add it to the list.

I know that I have a few shows on the list with ratios narrower than 16:9, but mostly I have tried to reserve that for modern productions whose conscious choice to use a narrower or VAR presentation goes against the grain. I don't think this qualifies.

Also, I'll be honest that I've considered removing those narrower titles.


----------



## Josh Z

The trailer for Amazon's new Western series called The English has a super-wide ratio of 2.46:1. I'll be curious to see if that's the actual ratio of the program, or just something weird done for the trailer.


----------



## Josh Z

Does anyone subscribe to Acorn TV? I'm finding conflicting trailers for the following shows. Some are 16:9 and some are 2.00:1.

The Good Karma Hospital (appears to be 2.00:1 in season 4)
Harry Wild
Hidden Assets
Mystery Road: Origin
Recipes for Love and Murder
Signora Volpe
Total Control

Also, the British series Ten Percent streams on AMC+. I'm pretty sure my wife did a free one-week trial and watched that show. I thought it was 16:9, but all the trailers are 2.00:1.


----------



## JonesyG

_The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power_ is 2.39:1, but unfortunately, there are subtitles in the letterbox/ black bar area, making in incompatible with 2.39:1 screens.

I need to find a way to rig a little "mini-screen" below my screen for subtitles. _The Boys _has the same problem. Sadly, my center channel is in the way...


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> _The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power_ is 2.39:1, but unfortunately, there are subtitles in the letterbox/ black bar area, making in incompatible with 2.39:1 screens.
> 
> I need to find a way to rig a little "mini-screen" below my screen for subtitles. _The Boys _has the same problem. Sadly, my center channel is in the way...


What device are you using to watch? The subtitles were in the picture (though scraping the bottom edge) on my screen, via NVIDIA Shield.


----------



## JonesyG

Amazon Prime App -> Chromecast -> Denon AVR-988 -> Panasonic AE3000

I should probably clarify - I'm talking about the subtitles that are part of the show - when someone shouts something in Elvish and English subtitles appear, which only happened a couple of times in the first episode. I'm _not _talking about the subtitles you turn on that translate _everything_.

Which type of subtitles are you talking about?


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> Amazon Prime App -> Chromecast -> Denon AVR-988 -> Panasonic AE3000
> 
> I should probably clarify - I'm talking about the subtitles that are part of the show - when someone shouts something in Elvish and English subtitles appear, which only happened a couple of times in the first episode. I'm _not _talking about the subtitles you turn on that translate _everything_.
> 
> Which type of subtitles are you talking about?


Yup, exactly. Are you seeing them completely in the letterbox bar, or one line in the picture and the other in the black bar?


----------



## JonesyG

Completely in the letterbox bar. See "Snow-troll" below.










Now here's the truly bizarre part: 
As I was hunting down this scene to take a photo, the words "Snow-troll" appeared on the picture, right under his chin... *once*. I didn't get a photo, and every other time after that, it was down below. I didn't change any settings - it just moved on me. 

Is there something I can do to get it to display on the picture consistently?


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> Completely in the letterbox bar. See "Snow-troll" below.
> 
> View attachment 3332040
> 
> 
> Now here's the truly bizarre part:
> As I was hunting down this scene to take a photo, the words "Snow-troll" appeared on the picture, right under his chin... *once*. I didn't get a photo, and every other time after that, it was down below. I didn't change any settings - it just moved on me.
> 
> Is there something I can do to get it to display on the picture consistently?


I don't remember whether I saw subtitles in that scene specifically or not, but I can check it later. I do remember seeing _some _subtitles, and didn't feel I had missed anything being translated.

I'm using an NVIDIA Shield. No special settings.


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> Completely in the letterbox bar. See "Snow-troll" below.
> 
> Now here's the truly bizarre part:
> As I was hunting down this scene to take a photo, the words "Snow-troll" appeared on the picture, right under his chin... *once*. I didn't get a photo, and every other time after that, it was down below. I didn't change any settings - it just moved on me.
> 
> Is there something I can do to get it to display on the picture consistently?


I just cued up that scene and took some quick photos off a TV screen. Here's what I get playing the episode via NVIDIA Shield:










And here's via Roku, pretty much identical subtitle placement inside the image.










As far as the subtitles moving, when I first hit the Pause button, it brought up Amazon's X-Ray feature, which displays details about the scene's cast at the bottom of the frame. Doing so shoved the subtitles upward.










But pushing the Back button turns that off and moves the subtitles back to their original position hugging the bottom of the 2.35:1 image.

I don't have a Chromecast, so I can't check that, sorry.


----------



## JonesyG

Thanks for checking that out. I'll play around with it more before watching episode 2 and see if I can find any options to move them.


----------



## Josh Z

It appears that I've been neglectful of many foreign shows that stream on AcornTV or BritBox. I'm attempting to rectify that, but I don't subscribe to either service and can only go by trailers I've come across in the HDTV Programming forum.

If anyone knows of TV shows on these platforms that would qualify for the list, please list them here. Thanks.


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> Thanks for checking that out. I'll play around with it more before watching episode 2 and see if I can find any options to move them.


Episode 3 has a couple more instances of subtitled dialogue. All were readable on my screen again. I think Chromecast must be doing something to push yours lower.


----------



## JonesyG

For Episode 3, I ran an HDMI cable from my laptop, where I played the show directly from Amazon via a Chrome browser.

The subtitles were still in the black bar. (sigh)

There are settings to change the size and color of the subtitles. By choosing the largest size, I was able to get them to appear just below the screen (right on top of my screen's border). They were legible, but only barely.


----------



## fredxr2d2

I'm watching on a FireTV Cube and the subtitles are at the bottom of the screen and go slightly into the masked area. I have to move my masking by about an inch to get all the words to display the whole letter instead of just the tops. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures at the moment.


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> For Episode 3, I ran an HDMI cable from my laptop, where I played the show directly from Amazon via a Chrome browser.
> 
> The subtitles were still in the black bar. (sigh)


Can you try it from another browser that's not Chrome? 

Do Edge or Firefox give the same result?


----------



## johnhelvete

Entrapped season 1 (Netflix) aka Trapped season 3 looks to be in a weird aspect ratio. Somewhere in between 1.85:1 and 2.00:1.


----------



## JonesyG

I watched episode 4 of Rings of Power using an old Roku I hadn't ever used before. The subtitles were right at the bottom of the picture. Yay. Problem solved.

Thanks again for your input!


----------



## Josh Z

JonesyG said:


> I watched episode 4 of Rings of Power using an old Roku I hadn't ever used before. The subtitles were right at the bottom of the picture. Yay. Problem solved.
> 
> Thanks again for your input!


That's good news. Are you also able to get 4K and HDR out of that old Roku?

It's weird that Chromecast would do something different with the subtitles than other streaming devices do, but such things are not unprecedented, unfortunately.


----------



## JonesyG

I am still using an old Panasonic 1080p projector. When I got it, I made the mistake of buying a screen that is as big as possible for that projector, when placed close to the back wall of my theater room. (125" diagonal 2.39:1 screen, 14'4" room)

Most 4k projectors won't throw an image big enough to fill my screen from such a short distance. The Epson 11000 looks like it will _just_ work, assuming the specs are precise. It's on my radar...

The subtitle stuff is annoying, but when I get frustrated, I remind myself of my childhood, when the shows I wanted to watch were often preempted by sporting events or news or something.


----------



## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> The SDCC trailer for Interview With The Vampire is 2.00:1, perhaps AMC is embracing the streaming ratio after all.





Josh Z said:


> I'm going to hold off adding this to the list, as every other teaser and trailer I've seen for the show have been 16:9.


The Interview with the Vampire series has finally aired and is indeed 2.00:1. I've added it to the list.


----------



## johnhelvete

TNT acquires UK series The Lazarus Project for 2023. According to wikipedia, the series airs on Sky Max in the UK. Trailer looks to be 2.35:1, which is also the aspect ratio listed on imdb.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

The Korean drama Goblin is 16:9 in scenes that take place in the present but scenes that take place in the past are in 2.35:1.


----------



## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> The Korean drama Goblin is 16:9 in scenes that take place in the present but scenes that take place in the past are in 2.35:1.


Where does this air or stream?

Is this the show you're talking about?









Guardian: The Lonely and Great God (TV Series 2016–2017) - IMDb


Guardian: The Lonely and Great God (TV Series 2016–2017) Reference View




www.imdb.com


----------



## johnhelvete

High School (Freevee). The first four episodes all feature an opening scene in 4:3, the series takes place in the 90's, before switching to 1.85:1.


----------



## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> Where does this air or stream?
> 
> Is this the show you're talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guardian: The Lonely and Great God (TV Series 2016–2017) - IMDb
> 
> 
> Guardian: The Lonely and Great God (TV Series 2016–2017) Reference View
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.imdb.com


That’s the one. Not sure where it airs Stateside, though.
Also, it’s worth mentioning that the aspect ratio changes by era. Scenes in medieval Korea are 2.35:1 while scenes in modern Korea are in 16:9.


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## Hydra Spectre

The upcoming Discotek Blu-ray of Gunbuster will have a remastered version of Episode 6 that is in a proper 16:9 container (letterboxed 2:1) instead of the weird windowboxed 4:3 thing.

The Blu-ray will also contain an open matte 4:3 version of the episode, and you can choose between the 2:1 or 4:3 versions.


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## Hydra Spectre

Berserk: The Golden Age Arc - Memorial Edition is 2.35:1 and airs on Crunchyroll in the US.
It was originally a movie trilogy but this is an extended cut released in an 11-episode TV series format, similar to The Hateful Eight on Netflix.

And speaking of Crunchyroll, Funimation is now defunct and all Funimation content has been transferred to Crunchyroll.


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## Hydra Spectre

Re: Cutie Honey a three-episode OVA miniseries that was animated in 1.85:1.
Amazon Prime Video's Kamen Rider: Black Sun is in 2.35:1.
Also, the USA Network series Suits has a 2.35:1 opening sequence each episode but the rest of the show is 16:9.


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## Brahma

Choices...

I personally think whilst the mind adjusts to it seeing people taller than they real are or shorter than they really is a distortion of actual physical reality so it's not that good.

2.35 is here to stay and I'm fairly sure there will be consumer choices in the future for TV's and monitors with this aspect ratio.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> Re: Cutie Honey a three-episode OVA miniseries that was animated in 1.85:1.


I'm going to need more info on this. There's been a lot of Cutie Honey over the years. The only listing I can find on IMDb called "Re: Cutie Honey" says it's a one-off 45 minute special.









Re: Cutie Honey (Video 2004) - IMDb


Re: Cutie Honey (Video 2004) Reference View




www.imdb.com







> Also, the USA Network series Suits has a 2.35:1 opening sequence each episode but the rest of the show is 16:9.


I watched the early seasons of Suits but don't remember that. I just cued up a few episodes on Amazon Prime, including the premiere of Season 9, and I'm not seeing it.


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## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> I'm going to need more info on this. There's been a lot of Cutie Honey over the years. The only listing I can find on IMDb called "Re: Cutie Honey" says it's a one-off 45 minute special.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Re: Cutie Honey (Video 2004) - IMDb
> 
> 
> Re: Cutie Honey (Video 2004) Reference View
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.imdb.com


It's a mistake on IMDb's part. It's actually a three-episode OVA miniseries with each episode being 15 minutes each.


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## Josh Z

Hydra Spectre said:


> It's a mistake on IMDb's part. It's actually a three-episode OVA miniseries with each episode being 15 minutes each.


Hmmm, three 15-minute shorts. We're really on the line here as to whether something qualifies as a "series." Not sure this is really worth adding to the list.


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## Josh Z

Updated listing for Tulsa King. The show is primarily 2.35:1 for scenes in Oklahoma, but 2.00:1 for scenes in New York (not CIH safe).


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## johnhelvete

Upcoming Hallmark series, The Way Home (Jan 15), has a short teaser trailer in 2.00:1. Hallmark potentially having a wider than 16:9 series prior to CBS and ABC, I probably would not have picked that on my bingo card.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Upcoming Hallmark series, The Way Home (Jan 15), has a short teaser trailer in 2.00:1. Hallmark potentially having a wider than 16:9 series prior to CBS and ABC, I probably would not have picked that on my bingo card.


The only trailer and First Look thing I find are both 16:9.


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## johnhelvete

I am skeptical that the series will be wider than 16:9, again first for the Hallmark channel, but here is the teaser that I was referring to.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> I am skeptical that the series will be wider than 16:9, again first for the Hallmark channel, but here is the teaser that I was referring to.


OK, thanks. I'm inclined to leave this off the list for now, pending confirmation. Of course, I'm very unlikely to watch the show myself. Not even sure if I get Hallmark Channel in my cable package.


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## johnhelvete

Josh Z said:


> OK, thanks. I'm inclined to leave this off the list for now, pending confirmation. Of course, I'm very unlikely to watch the show myself. Not even sure if I get Hallmark Channel in my cable package.


Do you Peacock? I am mildy curious because of the premise and the cast of The Way Back, but I have only found the Hallmark style to be tolerable for some of their mystery movie series or one off movies, not for their ongoing drama series. 








Peacock Adding 'All Things Hallmark' Hub Featuring Live Streaming of Three Channels, Library Movie Content


Peacock is unwrapping an early Christmas gift for Hallmark groupies — a special hub that will offer live and on-demand programming from Hallmark Channel, Hallmark Movies & Mysteries and H…




tvline.com




*Going live on Wednesday, Nov. 2, the dedicated Hallmark hub will be prominently featured on Peacock’s home page as a singular destination for “all things Hallmark Media,” offering Peacock Premium subscribers (sign up here) live simulcasts of all three channels, next-day streaming of episodes from new seasons from current shows (such as When Calls the Heart and the 2023 premieres Ride and The Way Home), and a robust library of movies within the Hallmark library (including signature holiday favorites). *


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Do you Peacock?


Yeah, I have Peacock. Didn't realize Hallmark had been added to that. Thanks.


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## Hydra Spectre

Josh Z said:


> Hmmm, three 15-minute shorts. We're really on the line here as to whether something qualifies as a "series." Not sure this is really worth adding to the list.


It was still a three-part miniseries (with a fourth episode as a drama CD). They aren't standalone shorts and each episode continues from the last.


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## johnhelvete

Alert (Fox). Pilot episode is 2.00:1.


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## Josh Z

johnhelvete said:


> Alert (Fox). Pilot episode is 2.00:1.


Thanks. The trailers and clips on YouTube measure 1.90:1 for this one.


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