# HDMI surge suppression?



## rklein

Lighting strike last night took out the HDMI ports on my HT reciever & projector.







All other aspects of both components function properly.


This is the Second strike in 2 years that did the same thing. The first time I thought it was a fluke but obviously HDMI doesn't have much tolerance for stray charges.


Are there any recievers that take this into account and protect devices connected to them or would I need something inline?


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## alk3997




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rklein* /forum/post/20367853
> 
> 
> Lighting strike last night took out the HDMI ports on my HT reciever & projector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All other aspects of both components function properly.
> 
> 
> This is the Second strike in 2 years that did the same thing. The first time I thought it was a fluke but obviously HDMI doesn't have much tolerance for stray charges.
> 
> 
> Are there any recievers that take this into account and protect devices connected to them or would I need something inline?



Unless the receiver was struct directly by lightning, I can't see how an outside surge would be caused by the HDMI line.


However, any line coming from outside of the house, which includes power, coax, telephone, cable, internet, satellite could produce a surge. This surge could then cause a power surge within the receiver or projector, then knocking out the HDMI board and the device.


It is also possible that while knocking out the HDMI board, the surge traveled the HDMI cable. If that did happen, I would expect to see some discoloration on or near the HDMI connector.


Even if the surge traveled the HDMI line, that's still a secondary event. More likely is that both devices took separate surges from the same event. In either case you would be better off making sure *every* outside line was surge protected since that would mitigate the source of the problem rather than a secondary effect. That's also one of the reasons that there aren't many HDMI surge protectors (or a component video surge protectors or a coax digital audio surge protectors) - that's not where the primary problem is. It's the lines from from outside that cause the problem.


However, if you really want an HDMI surge protector, a simple Google search found this:

http://www.firefold.com/%2FFREE-SHIP...SA-P30864.aspx 


I have no idea what this will do to a normal high speed HDMI signal. So, buyer beware and I'd make sure that this device isn't going to degrade the high speed signal before purchasing. Also, even if you purchase and install this device, I would still expect that at least one of the HDMI boards would fry if the exact same event happened again. Finally, not all surge protectors are created equal. Make sure you look at the ratings of each to find out how much energy the surge protector can dissipate.


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## rklein

Since both devices were on surge protectors, perhaps the surge protector doesn't provide enough protection for presumably more sensitive HDMI


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## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rklein* /forum/post/20367853
> 
> 
> ...would I need something inline?



Best approach is to keep surges out of the building with a whole-house approach that protects all potential surge paths including AC, cable, etc.


Receivers don't do surge protection.


Surge protection of an HDMI connection is problematic. The devices to do it add a small but finite capacitance to each line protected. The problem is that even a small additional capacitance may be enough to upset the signal enough that it is unusable.


The page describing the device Andy mentioned says that it is "active on all...TMDS channels" and doesn't mention the other lines. Only way to find out if it screws up your picture is to try it. But if it doesn't protect all the lines, it is worthless IMHO.


You may or may not see any visible indication of the surge on the equipment.


If all the paths were protected, and the devices connected by the HDMI cable are on separate MOV-based surge protective devices plugged into different receptacles, it may be that is the cause of the damage. There can be a considerable difference in ground potential between receptacles when a surge is shunted to ground.


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## Brent McCall

When looking at HDMI surge issues, you need to look from a slightly different angle.

The Ethereal HDMI Surge product was promp'ed by a dealer who called after the entire HDMI chain was damaged (without any issues with the analog or power functions) on a cust. system (note that system was as fully protected as possible).


Since HDMI hardware is (for these purposes) a small computer it is static discharge more than high voltage hits that are the problem. The HDM-SP will clamp up to 8KV in both directions (16KV total) on the High Speed/Clock channels (to date we have only seen one system fail with surge down the 5V/Hot Plug Detect channels and that system had no other protection).


While ANY device added to the HDMI will add loss the HDMI-SP is built with a trace eq'ed, impedance correct 4 layer circuit board (in beautiful Ormond Beach, Fl.) to have as little effect on the signal as possible.


Note; that the original HDMI specs provided for the inclusion of this type of protection but the feature was nixed as product mfgr's complained that it would add too much cost.


The HDM-SP is NOT intented to protect you from a direct hit (very few things will), it will however provide safety from the normal spikes and static discharges.


BTW: Colm's discussion about ground potential needs to be noted, it is always best to bring ALL of your AV power connections back to a single point and circuit and observe absolute polarity at your recepticle's (also do not buy the cheapest duplex device as you have no idea what kind of metal they are built with).


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## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brent McCall* /forum/post/20376209
> 
> 
> ...it is static discharge more than high voltage hits that are the problem.



Yes, that is HDMI's dirty little secret. It is very susceptible to damage from static discharge. It is possible to kill a HDMI port just plugging in the cable.


Based on the description, it sounds like the device used in the HDM-SP is one of the chips developed to protect HDMI circuits from static discharge damage rather than MOVs large enough to handle a true, high current, surge. Can you confirm?


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## Brent McCall

You are correct.

It is assumed that the overall system is covered by some type (MOV, Gas Diode etc.) of primary surge protection.

What the HDM-SP is for is a "static discharge" not a direct lighting hit (other devices are for that).


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## alk3997




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brent McCall* /forum/post/20376209
> 
> 
> When looking at HDMI surge issues, you need to look from a slightly different angle.
> 
> The Ethereal HDMI Surge product was promp'ed by a dealer who called after the entire HDMI chain was damaged (without any issues with the analog or power functions) on a cust. system (note that system was as fully protected as possible).
> 
> 
> Since HDMI hardware is (for these purposes) a small computer it is static discharge more than high voltage hits that are the problem. The HDM-SP will clamp up to 8KV in both directions (16KV total) on the High Speed/Clock channels (to date we have only seen one system fail with surge down the 5V/Hot Plug Detect channels and that system had no other protection).
> 
> 
> While ANY device added to the HDMI will add loss the HDMI-SP is built with a trace eq'ed, impedance correct 4 layer circuit board (in beautiful Ormond Beach, Fl.) to have as little effect on the signal as possible.
> 
> 
> Note; that the original HDMI specs provided for the inclusion of this type of protection but the feature was nixed as product mfgr's complained that it would add too much cost.
> 
> 
> The HDM-SP is NOT intented to protect you from a direct hit (very few things will), it will however provide safety from the normal spikes and static discharges.
> 
> 
> BTW: Colm's discussion about ground potential needs to be noted, it is always best to bring ALL of your AV power connections back to a single point and circuit and observe absolute polarity at your recepticle's (also do not buy the cheapest duplex device as you have no idea what kind of metal they are built with).



Very interesting answer. Thanks for the info - I've learned something today.


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## nippit

HDMI and surge.


Surely there must be a solution...


All my devices are connected via HDMI really it is a one connector world.

output=> projector and TV

input=> cable Receiver, Blueray, HTPC, PS3,

Receiver => HDMI in and OUT....+ HDMI splitter


All my devices are on a single surge protector.


About a year ago my second output on the receiver and 1st input on the projector got fried due to lightning... I did not worry to much as i just switch to other ports.


a week ago another lightning problem.


ALL my HDMI ports other then the TV and PS3 is gone.. all inputs and outputs.


all devices work fine as long as connect to composite video output. but HDMI is dead....


Current cost...

Blueray Player >> recycle bin (does not worth to fix....)

Cable Box >> recycle bin (HDMI is integrated to the CPU/MCU) $250

PC >> main board replacement (HDMI was on MB) $200

Projector>> replacement board and workmanship $400

receiver >> new HDMI board is more than $1,100...

HDMI splitter >> Receycle bin $200


just for a lightning... which only damages HDMI ports....


are we really defenseless for this?


nippit


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## alk3997

Try this thread and see if it helps you...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...rge+protection 


You have to look at wires that come into your house as the source of the overvoltage. Unless the HDMI cable took a direct hit, these were all secondary effects. You really have to stop the source, which appears to me to be the cable TV box or a roof antenna (if you have one).


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## jefny

Thanks to LIPA on Long Island we have problems with electrical surges on a regular basis and all of my equipment is protected or at least I thought it was. Last August a power surge came through the house and I had neglected to protect a powered signal booster on a long hdmi run. It knocked out the hdmi port on my projector and the booster itself but the HDMI port on the receiver seemed to be okay.The cable itself may have been affected as the long run (12 foot plus 25 foot) no longer carries a strong enough signal. I will soon learn if this is the case as I am in the act of replacing it.


Make sure everything is protected.


John


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## trebor58

Anytime you are getting surge damage the first point to address is the grounding. If the electrical service ground is not below 10-Ohms then anything you do after that to protect will be minimal at best. All grounds should be referencing the same single point reference or you will experience noise, poor picture quality and equipment damage. Once you verify a single point ground reference of low impedance then you can move to the second step... proper surge protection. Most residential surge suppression is garbage. Plug in devices do very little or nothing at all. Remember that the surge suppression installed on electrical distribution panels should have an active transient filter to provide clean power. Most panel-mount surge suppressors are MOV based and therefore will only turn on and address the surge once it has elevated well above the electrical sine wave. That's fine for protecting motors but unfortunately by the time the surge energy has elevated that high your electronics are toast or degraded dramatically at best. The suge experience through the HDMI cable is still being generrated at the AC level and has sifted its way through the amp tot he HDMI port to seek ground. The surge "sees" the ground reference from the TV as separate from the ground reference from the amp. Even though the grounds originate at the same main electrical service, note that the ground conductor from the breaker panel to the receptacle is probably only 14 AWG wire and therefore the impedance (resistance) from that long wire run will change the ground reading between the two pieces of equipment. I recommend Total Protection Solutions surge suppression because they have a proprietary filter that provide computer grade power 24/7 and the best warranty in the business. They focus on large commercial and industrial applications but they have a residential division as well.


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## alk3997




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trebor58* /forum/post/21838966
> 
> 
> Anytime you are getting surge damage the first point to address is the grounding. If the electrical service ground is not below 10-Ohms then anything you do after that to protect will be minimal at best. All grounds should be referencing the same single point reference or you will experience noise, poor picture quality and equipment damage. Once you verify a single point ground reference of low impedance then you can move to the second step... proper surge protection. Most residential surge suppression is garbage. Plug in devices do very little or nothing at all. Remember that the surge suppression installed on electrical distribution panels should have an active transient filter to provide clean power. Most panel-mount surge suppressors are MOV based and therefore will only turn on and address the surge once it has elevated well above the electrical sine wave. That's fine for protecting motors but unfortunately by the time the surge energy has elevated that high your electronics are toast or degraded dramatically at best. The suge experience through the HDMI cable is still being generrated at the AC level and has sifted its way through the amp tot he HDMI port to seek ground. The surge "sees" the ground reference from the TV as separate from the ground reference from the amp. Even though the grounds originate at the same main electrical service, note that the ground conductor from the breaker panel to the receptacle is probably only 14 AWG wire and therefore the impedance (resistance) from that long wire run will change the ground reading between the two pieces of equipment. I recommend Total Protection Solutions surge suppression because they have a proprietary filter that provide computer grade power 24/7 and the best warranty in the business. They focus on large commercial and industrial applications but they have a residential division as well.



Interesting. I can't disagree with what you wrote on a 6 month old thread. However, I find it curious that within 1/2 an hour you posted three separate appends all saying to look at Total Protection Solutions. Here's the Home Theater section append,


"Anytime you are getting surge damage the first point to address is the grounding. If the electrical service ground is not below 10-Ohms then anything you do after that to protect will be minimal at best. All grounds should be referencing the same single point reference or you will experience noise, poor picture quality and equipment damage. Once you verify a single point ground reference of low impedance then you can move to the second step... proper surge protection. Most residential surge suppression is garbage. Plug in devices do very little or nothing at all. Remember that the surge suppression installed on electrical distribution panels should have an active transient filter to provide clean power. Most panel-mount surge suppressors are MOV based and therefore will only turn on and address the surge once it has elevated well above the electrical sine wave. That's fine for protecting motors but unfortunately by the time the surge energy has elevated that high your electronics are toast or degraded dramatically at best. The suge experience through the HDMI cable is still being generrated at the AC level and has sifted its way through the amp tot he HDMI port to seek ground. The surge "sees" the ground reference from the TV as separate from the ground reference from the amp. Even though the grounds originate at the same main electrical service, note that the ground conductor from the breaker panel to the receptacle is probably only 14 AWG wire and therefore the impedance (resistance) from that long wire run will change the ground reading between the two pieces of equipment. I recommend Total Protection Solutions surge suppression because they have a proprietary filter that provide computer grade power 24/7 and the best warranty in the business. They focus on large commercial and industrial applications but they have a residential division as well."


Looks familiar...


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## trebor58

Yes Andy, I simply copied and pasted my response to all three since they were all on the same subject. Easier than rewriting each. I thought the same response was applicable to each.


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## alk3997




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trebor58* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes Andy, I simply copied and pasted my response to all three since they were all on the same subject. Easier than rewriting each. I thought the same response was applicable to each.



Please understand that we get spammers occasionally, particularly with old threads that get resurrected. Glad to see you responded back. Welcome to the HDMI section of the AVSForum.


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## GoDeep52




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trebor58*  /t/1331747/hdmi-surge-suppression#post_21838966
> 
> 
> I recommend Total Protection Solutions surge suppression because they have a proprietary filter that provide computer grade power 24/7 and the best warranty in the business. They focus on large commercial and industrial applications but they have a residential division as well.



What is the cost for something like this to be installed into a home?


Thanks,

Steve


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## nippit

Since this is still active;


I do understand every singe one explaining the proper surge protection.


I am an electronics engineer and deal with surge, ground loops and many other problems on industrial communications.


I currently live in Singapore on a landed property. At tropics you live with lightning and thunder that's it. But this is not my first experience before Singapore I was living in England suburban area in a house, similar problems when there is lightning. I think i have blown 5 phone modems in my life but that is all lightning could do to me until recently.


Now bit technical


I am personally anal with the ground, earth and Neutral lines.


There is a surge protection on the mains on the distribution board.


In my set up above all the devices are connect to the mains from a single point. (read it as single socket if you like)


This Socket has a Direct Earth, Direct Neutral, Direct Live wire from the switch board.


All the power is distributed from a single distribution socket. Yes, I do bet it is a MOV device. However there is no separate Natural or Earth reference for different devices.


Lightning;

My house did not get hit by lightning, but some where near by did.

Any device that is connected on HDMI, the device HDMI port is gone (blown, burnt) all the devices are working with other input out put ports. EXCLUDING Sony PS3!

Any device that is connected but NOT via HDMI is working.


Hence it does look like HDMI port is very susceptible to surges, much more than other connections we have.


After reading more about this I have found recommendations to manufacturers implementing HDMI standards for surge protection. Sadly this is NOT compulsory, so every manufacturer is saving a 50c per device by not putting these in...


If i can find a way to put optical isolation between my devices i would do this... copper does have its weaknesses.


Any suggestions So I can protect my self from the next blow up?


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## alk3997

You can always go to a fiber optic for HDMI. At least you would only lose one side of the connection.


But, as you said the lightning didn't strike your house and it didn't sound like inductance reached your house. So, how did the surge reach your equipment? Not knowing your setup, it seems to me that it would have to be an attached cable, whether that is power or coax. I've noticed in the U.S. many (most) of these issues are with cable customers. Is there any chance that the surges are coming in your cable and then out the cable box's HDMI line? I think that would explain all of the symptoms. Is your Internet access through the cable as well?


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## whinnycritter

I'm now dealing with the second HDMI lightning damage within 3 years. Fortunately, I'm a technician with 45 years experience, so I'm able to replace the HDMI interface chip in the TV again. This time it also took out the HDMI port on my DISH receiver. I've also lost several HDMI switches. NOTHING is getting to my equipment by way of the power line! I have a whole-house arrester on the pole, below the meter, then a Tripp Lite outlet box that boasts $50,000 guarantee for connected equipment, then a Topaz sine-wave UPS, then another Tripp Lite, then another outlet strip with surge suppression. But here's the deal. A very close lightning strike produces an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that will induce thousands or even tens of thousands of volts into ANY nearby length of wire. In addition to HDMI ports, I've also lost the PS2 port on a computer motherboard, along with the connected KVM switch, several ethernet ports, and an expensive video server. So, what can be done? You can start by using the shortest possible cables. Monoprice has HDMI cables as short as one and a half feet, and they have ferrite cores at each end (which may not help, but can't hurt). Second, you can use a sacrificial device, such as an HDMI switch or an extender/booster. Let the circuitry in these cheap (less than $20) devices take the hit. With luck, they won't pass the spike through to your expensive equipment. I'm not sure whether the power available on HDMI will handle multiple devices, but I'm going to give it a try and will post my results here. As for the surge protection built into HDMI ports, yes, these chips do have it, but the problem is not just volts, but energy. That's volts X amps X time. The chips will protect against fairly high voltage, but not many amps, or not many microseconds. That's fine for static discharge, but lighting induced surges involve a LOT of energy, that can overwhelm the protection that can be built into a chip. MOV's that are used in outlet strips can handle it, but they have lots of capacitance, and cannot be used with high-frequency signal lines, as that capacitance will act as a short circuit to those frequencies. As for the available HDMI surge supressors, as yet the price is just too high for me.


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## fashby

*Problems with Lightning and HDMI*

Hello,


I have experienced the same issues with lightning and HDMI. My house is well grounded and I have a whole house surge protector. I have a 50' HDMI cable running through my attic. A nearby lightning strike can produce a huge magnetic field around the house to the point of producing noticeable static voltages. (I say this from experience because my wife said she felt a static shock in her finger after the last nearby lightning strike.) I have had 2 separate incidences of HDMI ports getting fried after a nearby lightning strike - A mother board HDMI port, 2 TV HDMI ports, an Xbox that completely died even though the power supply was fine and an HDMI splitter. All this with no other noticeable damage.


My guess is that the house surge protector is doing it's job but the long HDMI cable is picking up enough voltage to fry my equipment. It is also possible that the telephone cables in the attic are bringing in spikes that are being transferred to the HDMI cable.


I suspect EM spikes are causing the problem so I am going to try HDMI surge protectors - wish me luck!


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## whinnycritter

*DIY HDMI Surge Protection*

I recently broke down and purchased an HDMI Surge Protector. First thing I did was open it up. For all the money it cost, it was disappointing to see how little was in there. No active components, just about 10 or so tiny MOV's (metal oxide varistors), each smaller than the head of a pin. Total part cost, including the small metal box and connectors, is less than $10. The printed circuit board traces also had zig-zag sections, which is a common method of creating very low value inductors. Considering the very high frequencies involved with HDMI video, this is really about all you can get away with, without degrading the signal. Larger MOV's have far too much capacitance. These are a few picofarads, at most. But it should work as promised, providing that the energy in a surge doesn't exceed the rating of the MOV's. But the bad news is that MOV's this size can't handle much energy. A long cable could pick up enough energy to destroy them. But the failure mode would be to become a short circuit, so it should still protect connected equipment, but the surge protector itself would then have to be replaced (~$150). Sooooo, I've bought some suitable MOV's, much smaller than the head of a pin, and when I get a chance I'll build my own HDMI surge protectors. I'll start by picking up some similar sized HDMI signal boosters, and use the metal boxes and connectors. Then I'll have some pc boards made, and since the boards are very small, I can get a panel of a dozen or so boards for the cost of just one. I'm fortunate to have the skill and equipment to do the surface mount soldering. I will also include fuses, in the form of short pieces of extremely fine magnet wire, which hopefully will blow before the MOV's are damaged, but that may be wishful thinking. If it does work as hoped, a blown device could be repaired in minutes at no cost. Meanwhile, I'd consider using a wireless link to replace a long cable. Chances are that lightning will not damage the link, and your expensive connected equipment should be quite safe.


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## PSimpso

I'm following up with this thread to see if there have been any developments.

I recently bought a used 2012 Panasonic plasma TV (TC-P50U50). The first time I tried it out, one of the two HDMI ports wasn't working (no idea what happened, the seller claims he had been using both).

Now I'm left with one working HDMI port and the fear that I'll lose it if I'm not careful. Also, this being a ~$300 used TV, I can't justify spending a lot of money.

Are there any relatively inexpensive measures I should be taking?

Maybe a cheaper HDMI surge protector? A heftier surge protecting power strip? An inexpensive UPS? A shorter HDMI cable?

I live in an apartment and I don't have a good sense of how clean my power is here.


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## Josh87

I also have a Panasonic TV with failed HDMI ports, except in my case, one power surge wiped out all 3 ports. None of the connected devices were affected. I too am looking for suggestions on how to prevent blown HDMI ports, as I had (what I thought) were reputable Belkin surge protectors and have made sure that all of my electronic devices are in surge protectors, have made sure that my OTA antenna coax connection is grounded, and have made sure my Comcast coax connection is grounded. I've just purchased surge suppressors for both of the coax connections and was thinking about a whole house surge protector, but after Fashby's post, I'm not sure what else to do. Both coax lines were previously grounded and fed through the Belkin surge protector.

Are there surge protectors (better quality) that will help? Do whole house surge protectors typically help? In searching the forums, it sounds like AC and coax are pathways that surges and/or lightning strikes can get into equipment blow the fragile HDMI ports. 

I know that after the fact, people can call upon manufacturer's warranties, credit card warranties, surge protector warranties, insurance companies, and even claims with their electrical service providers, but I really want to prevent future issues.

Josh


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## rdmitchell

Hello, I am an A/V professional and I have seen enough HDMI surge problems to at least get a handle on what is going on. Everyone of my customers that have had equipment broken because of HDMI surge issues is due to a surge coming over the RG6 cable to the cable box and then out over the HDMI. When this has happened it can be as bad as every HDMI board in the system is broken including the cable box. Or it can be as "painless" as the customer I had today who only lost the HDMI wire (crazy, first time for that, 45' directional wire) and the one output of his new Marantz amp. However the other mirrored HDMI output was not hurt?? The TV did not sustain any injury. I have had homes where two out of the 4 TV's lost their HDMI boards and the one room lost the HDMI board for the receiver. The Bluray player was not harmed. Again all homes were on a cable system not satellite. I am now considering using HDMI surge suppressors on the cable box output. I have found some that are 4K but none that are 4K and 2.0.


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## Josh87

rdmitchell said:


> Hello, I am an A/V professional and I have seen enough HDMI surge problems to at least get a handle on what is going on. Everyone of my customers that have had equipment broken because of HDMI surge issues is due to a surge coming over the RG6 cable to the cable box and then out over the HDMI. When this has happened it can be as bad as every HDMI board in the system is broken including the cable box. Or it can be as "painless" as the customer I had today who only lost the HDMI wire (crazy, first time for that, 45' directional wire) and the one output of his new Marantz amp. However the other mirrored HDMI output was not hurt?? The TV did not sustain any injury. I have had homes where two out of the 4 TV's lost their HDMI boards and the one room lost the HDMI board for the receiver. The Bluray player was not harmed. Again all homes were on a cable system not satellite. I am now considering using HDMI surge suppressors on the cable box output. I have found some that are 4K but none that are 4K and 2.0.


Thanks rdmitchell, but I don't think HDMI surge suppressors are the fix. From what I now understand and have researched, the problem is that surges/interference travel through the power lines, coax lines, and Ethernet cables connected to your TV, so protecting the HDMI cables with their own surge protector is too late.

I'm doing the following:

Installing a whole house surge protector
Continuing to use surge protectors at the outlet for expensive devices
Putting surge protectors (inline with gas) on my coax lines
Buying another Type A board from ShopJimmy.com in case my HDMI ports get blown again

I was able to fix my TV for $120 with a Type A board from ShopJimmy.com in a little over an hour. You just have to be gentle with the ribbon connectors. I might also consider a zero surge device.

Josh


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## Otto Pylot

I agree with Josh87. If you are in an area that has a high propensity for lightening strikes and power outages, the only way to really protect your devices is with whole house surge protection. Then put your important devices on a secondary system such as an APC battery backup or whatever. Current will follow what ever path it can to ground and that includes coax, phone line, RG-6, HDMI, etc.


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## rdmitchell

All of the equipment was on surge suppressors. The RG6 cable was run through a properly grounded ground block in all cases. I think in most of the cases the surge would have never tripped the surge suppressor because the cable boxes survived but the sensitive HDMI boards did not. However, from now on all customers are getting gas block suppressors on cable and an hdmi suppressor out of the cable box.


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## Otto Pylot

By gas block suppressors do you mean gas discharge tubes? They have a finite life span like MOV's but a higher capacitance.


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## Mr.G

Josh87 said:


> Thanks rdmitchell, but I don't think HDMI surge suppressors are the fix. From what I now understand and have researched, the problem is that surges/interference travel through the power lines, coax lines, and Ethernet cables connected to your TV, so protecting the HDMI cables with their own surge protector is too late.
> 
> I'm doing the following:
> 
> Installing a whole house surge protector
> Continuing to use surge protectors at the outlet for expensive devices
> Putting surge protectors (inline with gas) on my coax lines
> Buying another Type A board from ShopJimmy.com in case my HDMI ports get blown again
> 
> I was able to fix my TV for $120 with a Type A board from ShopJimmy.com in a little over an hour. You just have to be gentle with the ribbon connectors. I might also consider a zero surge device.
> 
> Josh


A recent show on This Old House (PBS) showed a home installed with lightning rods along the roofline for direct lightning strikes and whole house surge protector for nearby strikes. The house was in Florida - lightning capital of the U.S.


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## doctor.dude

We used satellite (Dish then Direct) for 10+ years here in the lightning capital, with no problems. We switched to cable in the spring to save a few bucks (broadband + TV bundle.) In the last four weeks we've lost two HDMI ports on one TV and one on the other. No changes to the house wiring. Satellite was three horns into three to-house connections + broadband; cable is one into four. Grounding of the incoming cabled coax looks OK.

The HDMIs smoked during particularly violent t-storms, semi-simultaneous flash-bang, hits less than 1,000 ft. away. The Samsung DVR and Cisco set-top box were not damaged (nor was the cable modem). The non-HDMI TV electronics are OK. We had many, many t-storms while using satellite. Occam's Razor says cable is the culprit. I would think that if it was EMP into the six-foot HDMI cables we would have seen this when on satellite.

So back to satellite; I can't afford two new TVs every six months.


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## Mr.G

doctor.dude said:


> We used satellite (Dish then Direct) for 10+ years here in the lightning capital, with no problems. We switched to cable in the spring to save a few bucks (broadband + TV bundle.) In the last four weeks we've lost two HDMI ports on one TV and one on the other. No changes to the house wiring. Satellite was three horns into three to-house connections + broadband; cable is one into four. Grounding of the incoming cabled coax looks OK.
> 
> The HDMIs smoked during particularly violent t-storms, semi-simultaneous flash-bang, hits less than 1,000 ft. away. The Samsung DVR and Cisco set-top box were not damaged (nor was the cable modem). The non-HDMI TV electronics are OK. We had many, many t-storms while using satellite. Occam's Razor says cable is the culprit. I would think that if it was EMP into the six-foot HDMI cables we would have seen this when on satellite.
> 
> So back to satellite; I can't afford two new TVs every six months.


In Florida as a bare minimum you should have whole house surge protection installed.


----------



## zurak

*Surge Suppression for Coax and in-house*



Josh87 said:


> Thanks rdmitchell, but I don't think HDMI surge suppressors are the fix. From what I now understand and have researched, the problem is that surges/interference travel through the power lines, coax lines, and Ethernet cables connected to your TV, so protecting the HDMI cables with their own surge protector is too late.
> 
> I'm doing the following:
> 
> Putting surge protectors (inline with gas) on my coax lines
> I might also consider a zero surge device.
> 
> Josh


I too looked at a Gas Discharge Tube based surge protector and found a hybrid unit that uses both a GDT and MOV's to take the center conductor to Ground really quick. I am using the CATV coax connection for internet only at this time, and coax for the OTA antennas (with the Mast Grounded, the coax is run through a grounding block as well and the "Morgan Manufacturing Inc" M-315 VHF/UHF/CATV arrestor. Search "kf7p morgan mfg" for the site that sells the M-315 devices if you are interested (they are 4x the price of a TII Tech 212 GDT only device but add additional protection). I used a custom made small box from KF7P that has a copper ground plane with a 2" hole in the center of both the ground plane & box for the quad shield RG-6 cables that builder left in the exterior wall used for the OTA antennas. 

I have a whole House Surge Protector (CHSP2ULTRA), and am using devices from ZeroSurge, SurgeX & Brickwall (made by ZeroSurge) throughout the house. 

The phone connection is disconnected at the houses NID (Network Interface Device) which is grounded to the electrical ground. 

The CATV connection is run through a ground block (connected to the electrical ground) and I added an MMI (M-315) device for the center conductor (we only use this for internet). 

So everything coming in from the outside is protected and tied to a common electrical ground (very important) just before it enters the house. 

The more expensive devices from ZeroSurge, SurgeX and Brickwall are more or less lifetime purchases (a way to justify their huge costs is that you make one purchase now instead of a $20-$25 surge suppressor relying on MOV's every 1-3 years). Only 2 of the 7 (ZeroSurge/Brickwalls) were used, and all 8 of the SurgeX devices were used. To expand the outlets in the 2-outlet models I added regular power strips (6 and 10-outlet) without surge suppression and trimmed the cord length. 5 APC (true SineWave) UPS's are also used and each is plugged directly into a ZeroSurge device. The UPS's are used to power the cable modem, Ooma & Dect 6.0 phones through power outages and to power the Mag DVR's and drop-amps throughout the house as well as the mast mounted preamp for the OTA. Again, I have to thank all the members of this forum for providing lots of useful information on Lightning and Surge Suppression even though much of it is spread across numerous threads.


----------



## Kack

My Denon AVR-1613 haas been hit for the second time. HDMI output is fried. 

What exactly gets shocked on these things and kills them? I'd like to repair it without replacing the entire board. Is it just the female plug? Do the resistors fry? Looking for direction here as it's out of warranty and the board is 200 bux to purchase. Unit isn't worth that to me but if it's a little bit of soldering to get it working again, I'll get right to it.

Thanks


----------



## WileyOne1

*What is killing my HDMI ports?*

Everybody here seems to be assuming that electrical surges must enter the house via the power lines or the phone lines or the cable connection. Yes, these can be a serious problem but we shouldn't forget what lightning is and how it can affect the electronics in our homes.

When a lightning strike occurs, it generates a brief but powerful ElectroMagnetic Field that travels at the speed of light and cuts through anything in its path that isn't shielded and grounded. Any conductor (capable of carrying current) will actually generate a potential and pass current when the EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse) cuts across. This is exactly how a transformer works. The longer the conductor, the greater the potential and the greater the current. 

I have lost three Tivo Mini's in the past 5 months, most likely because of this principle. On each of them, the A/V output still works nicely, but the HDMI output is now dead. My theory is that an EMF pulse from a nearby lightning strike generated a current in the 25' HDMI cable to the TV and zapped the Tivo Mini output. Apparently, the Panasonic plasma TV has better protection on the HDMI input because it has not been affected.

Another problem is that my TV is powered from a different electrical circuit than my Tivo Mini. I suppose that can cause a difference in potential between the TV and the Mini, especially when an EMP cuts through the entire house. It is possible that the HDMI cable is acting to equalize the voltage difference between the two devices and the current discharge into the HDMI port is killing my Mini's.

I am looking for a way to prevent the loss of a 4th Tivo Mini. 
Here are some ideas that I am considering:

install an HDMI surge protector at the point where the HDMI cable enters the Mini
wrap a ferrite bead or two around the HDMI cable
install a high-quality surge protector for the power and coax on the Mini
install a high-quality surge protector for the power on the TV
ground the shield of the coax cable where it enters the Mini.
re-wire my house to get the TV and Mini onto the same surge protector


Which of these is likely to work? Have I left out anything?


----------



## Otto Pylot

What some folks have done who live in areas with lots of electrical storms is install a whole house surge protector at the electrical junction box for the house. It's probably a bit expensive, and would require a certified electrician (for local building codes, etc). You might want to look into that. If your area is subject to that kind of weather then I'm sure there are a few experienced electricians or electrical contractors who can educate you on the pros and cons of such a device.

A ferrite bead won't do anything. The interference produced by a lightening strike is considerably higher than any ferrite bead could handle. I've seen some folks install whole house protectors and then high quality surge protectors (that also include HDMI) at each area that has electronic devices connected. However, I have heard that some HDMI protectors can adversely affect the HDMI signal which may be especially true for some of the higher video standards. I have no first hand knowledge of that so that may also be an area that you might want to look into.


----------



## WileyOne1

*a year and a half later....*

I haven't lost any more HDMI ports lately, either on the Tivo Mini or on my TV.
But, my TV still goes blank for about 1 second while streaming video from the Tivo Mini. When that happens, the sound goes out too.
How often does this happen? Maybe 3 to 20 times per hour.
It behaves as if the HDMI cable was cut and reconnected immediately, except there is no popup on the TV about lack of signal.

Here is what I've tried:

connected an HDMI switch between the Tivo mini and the last working HDMI port on my plasma TV
placed a UPS on the power line for all AV equipment including TV, sound bar, Tivo Mini, Harmony hub, and HDMI switch
wrapped a ferrite bead around the HDMI cable to the TV
connected a grounded HDMI surge protector between the HDMI switch output and the TV input

I'd really like to figure out where the dropout is originating. TV? Power? I don't suspect the Tivo Mini because the problem also occurs when I am streaming from FireStick.

I have a Tektronix O-scope that I haven't touched in 30 years. Maybe I should dust it off and look at the power to the TV?
Or maybe I should look at the HDMI signal? What should that look like? I know it is digital, but would I be able to see a dropout?


----------



## Ratman

You state "streaming" when using the Mini and with Firestick. Could it possibly be wireless interference? Or poor connection and/or speed from your ISP?


----------



## WileyOne1

I thought I had a really cool idea when I ran the coax feed through the F-connector protection on my CyberPower AVR900 UPS before sending it on to the Tivo Mini.
Except for one thing...
The dopes at CyberPower designed their filter to pass only 5-1000 MHz and MoCA uses 500-1675 MHz.
That's what I get for going cheap.

Now I'm looking for a coax filter that will pass 5-1675 and clamp surges, all at the same time, without mucking up the streaming video.
Actually, 500-1675 MHz would be even better because the Tivo Mini is using only MoCA.

Maybe something from APC....


----------



## WileyOne1

Ratman said:


> You state "streaming" when using the Mini and with Firestick. Could it possibly be wireless interference? Or poor connection and/or speed from your ISP?


I may need to confirm this with Tivo support, but this is what I believe:
When the Tivo Mini is playing back a video recording from the Tivo Roamio, it uses MoCA only. In my configuration, there is nothing no cable in the Ethernet port of the Tivo Mini.
That means that, to get out to the Internet, the Tivo Mini has to rely on the Tivo Roamio to convert the MoCA communication to Ethernet communication.
The Tivo Mini doesn't work on wireless.

The Amazon FireStick does use 802.11ac wireless to communicate with the Internet. However, if a dropout occurs on that link, it will not cause the entire TV screen and sound to blank out for exactly 1 second. Typically, it would manifest as a frozen image, a bunch of pixelation, or both.

This issue feels like a power issue, but I guess it could still be an HDMI thing or a coax thing. I need to figure out a way to narrow it down.


----------



## Ratman

Bypass the UPS with the coax for an hour. If no dropouts occur, then you know the filtering is the cause and you can seek an alternative for protection. If it still occurs, look elsewhere.


Then... you still have to identify what's going on with the Firestick. If you think it a power problem, move it to an alternative power source for an hour. If no dropouts, then power may be the issue. If dropouts still occur, then you have another issue. Perhaps with your ISP (upload/download speed).


IMHO, don't assume HDMI dropouts to _always_ be a frozen image, a bunch of pixelation, or both.


----------



## WileyOne1

Ratman said:


> Bypass the UPS with the coax for an hour. If no dropouts occur, then you know the filtering is the cause and you can seek an alternative for protection. If it still occurs, look elsewhere.
> 
> 
> Then... you still have to identify what's going on with the Firestick. If you think it a power problem, move it to an alternative power source for an hour. If no dropouts, then power may be the issue. If dropouts still occur, then you have another issue. Perhaps with your ISP (upload/download speed).
> 
> 
> IMHO, don't assume HDMI dropouts to _always_ be a frozen image, a bunch of pixelation, or both.


Ratman: You seem to be having trouble tracking my logic.

> There is no coax filtering or coax surge protection in place right now but I'm thinking of adding some.
> There is no problem with my FireStick except the same exact problem I see with the Tivo Mini.
> I *don't* assume that HDMI dropouts will cause pixelation and frozen images. This is not my issue.
> I *do* assume that Wi-Fi dropouts will cause pixelation and frozen images. This is not my issue.

Anybody else have any thoughts?


----------



## Ratman

Have fun and good luck in the future (after a year and a half of frustration).


----------



## Otto Pylot

WileyOne1 said:


> Ratman: You seem to be having trouble tracking my logic.
> 
> > There is no coax filtering or coax surge protection in place right now but I'm thinking of adding some.
> > There is no problem with my FireStick except the same exact problem I see with the Tivo Mini.
> > I *don't* assume that HDMI dropouts will cause pixelation and frozen images. This is not my issue.
> > I *do* assume that Wi-Fi dropouts will cause pixelation and frozen images. This is not my issue.
> 
> Anybody else have any thoughts?


Did you ever consider whole house protection and not just isolated? If you get lots of lightening strikes/power outages in your are then protecting your whole house would be your fist line of defense. Then start looking at your individual devices and consider maybe upgrading if possible.


----------



## WileyOne1

rdmitchell said:


> Hello, I am an A/V professional and I have seen enough HDMI surge problems to at least get a handle on what is going on. Everyone of my customers that have had equipment broken because of HDMI surge issues is due to a surge coming over the RG6 cable to the cable box and then out over the HDMI. When this has happened it can be as bad as every HDMI board in the system is broken including the cable box. Or it can be as "painless" as the customer I had today who only lost the HDMI wire (crazy, first time for that, 45' directional wire) and the one output of his new Marantz amp. However the other mirrored HDMI output was not hurt?? The TV did not sustain any injury. I have had homes where two out of the 4 TV's lost their HDMI boards and the one room lost the HDMI board for the receiver. The Bluray player was not harmed. Again all homes were on a cable system not satellite. I am now considering using HDMI surge suppressors on the cable box output. I have found some that are 4K but none that are 4K and 2.0.


Wow. I am glad I found this thread. It confirms everything that I've suspected.
,
Over the first two years that I've lived in this house, I have lost 3 of 4 HDMI ports on my Panasonic Plasma TV and have blown the HDMI ports on 3 Tivo Mini's. Then I installed a Monoprice 4x4 HDMI switch between the Tivo Mini and the TV. When I put it in, I wasn't thinking of it as a "sacrificial" device but I guess it is providing protection for my last working TV port because it is within 12 feet of the TV. Now I just need to convince my Harmony Hub to operate it automatically. The HDMI switch has been in place for over a year and I have not lost any more HDMI ports or Tivo Mini's, but I did blow a Monoprice HDMI switch.
.
Yes, I am a Comcast cable customer. All of my RG-6 cables run through the attic where they act as a giant multi-element antenna for EM pulses. We live on top of a hill and we have a lot of Radon in this neighborhood. Static charges from other neighborhoods find their way here like moths to a flame.
.
My plasma TV is as far as you can get from my breaker panel -- opposite diagonal corners in 70-foot house. The 15A power line to that outlet is probably over 100 feet long after going through the attic. So that cable also becomes susceptible to an EM pulse at the far end. My little 14ga ground wire to my entire AV system might be generating and passing static charges. Perhaps the UPS that I added last week will solve that dilemma.
.
I am looking for a Coax filter that will clamp surges, yet pass cable and MoCA frequencies 500-1675 MHz. Most of the ones I've tried, especially the ones that are built-in to surge protectors and UPS's, won't pass over 1000 MHz.
.
Any suggestions?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ maybe what you're looking for doesn't exist. Your fist post was back in October of 2016 so I can only assume you've been looking since then. A new Google search maybe is in order?


----------



## Ratman

WileyOne1 said:


> I am looking for a Coax filter that will clamp surges, yet pass cable and MoCA frequencies 500-1675 MHz.
> Any suggestions?


 https://www.summitsource.com/Parts-...MI7bfn8_zB2wIVzQOGCh0p-AWAEAYYASABEgI99fD_BwE
https://www.amazon.com/VCE-2-PACK-C...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=EM951536YT93F5WNGDME


----------



## Ratman

@WileyOne1
Any status?


----------



## WileyOne1

I am beginning to think that I am dealing with 2 separate issues:
.
Issue One: surges that take out HDMI ports. I've installed an HDMI surge protector between the HDMI switch and the TV. I've also put a coax surge suppressor at the coax input to the Tivo mini. My entire AV system is powered by a dumb UPS. I have not lost any more HDMI ports and we have had some vicious storms in the past two weeks. If I don't lose any more HDMI ports by Labor Day, I'll consider this one fixed.
.
Issue Two: 1 second blackouts during Tivo-Mini playback. Since installing the UPS and a new 4-way distribution splitter in the basement, the blackouts are much less frequent. Instead of 10 to 20 times an hour, they now occur only once or twice per hour. My Tivo Mini is a streaming device that relies on MoCA to communicate with the Tivo Roamio storage device. I am still not certain if the blackouts are occuring at the TV, at the Tivo Mini, at the Tivo Roamio, in the MoCA transmission, or in the power system to any of the devices. I need to try a few more tests to try to narrow it down. Perhaps a smart UPS would supply cleaner power?


----------



## WileyOne1

I performed a few tests and I have some new info.
.
The dropouts that I've been seeing are really just a blank screen with no sound that last about one-half second.
Yesterday I saw them while watching a program on FireStick. Because the Firestick is wireless and it connects to the TV through a MonoPrice HDMI switch, I no longer suspect the Tivo or MoCA.
.
This problem was happening before I installed the HDMI switch, so the only device left to blame is the Panasonic Viera TCP65GT30 TV.
I just have to figure out whether it happens on content that is not coming in through the HDMI port.


----------



## Matt L

Hey, I guess I'll revive this thread. I Have a Marantz SR-7010 AVR. I was watching my Directv DVR one night and the screen went black, This is 2 AM mid winter - no storms. Anyway contacted Marantz and got this response: 



> It is a known issue with cable boxes shorting out inputs due to sending a signal voltage out of tolerance. The input will need to be repaired, but I would recommend using an HDMI voltage regulator in between the box's output and the receiver's input otherwise it will happen again. The HD Surge is a good product and not too expensive.


This is the first time I've heard of such a thing. I looked for the item they suggested it appears it's NLA. Anyone aware of any product for over voltage rather than lightning strike protection?


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## Grayson73

I've had the HDMI1 input on my Epson 5040UB die in 2 projectors in the past two months. Is a whole house surge protector the answer, or HDMI surge protector? For the latter, are there any that can handle 4K 60 Hz HDR?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> I've had the HDMI1 input on my Epson 5040UB die in 2 projectors in the past two months. Is a whole house surge protector the answer, or HDMI surge protector? For the latter, are there any that can handle 4K 60 Hz HDR?


Is it just the Epson projectors that are having the issue? All of your other HDMI devices are ok? If you've had two of the same Epson pj's fail at the same HDMI port could it be that model of Epson pj?


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> Is it just the Epson projectors that are having the issue? All of your other HDMI devices are ok? If you've had two of the same Epson pj's fail at the same HDMI port could it be that model of Epson pj?


That's my only display device. The HDMI outputs of all of the source devices are fine, yes. I'm checking on the forum for the particular projector. Was wondering what I can do to protect the port.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> That's my only display device. The HDMI outputs of all of the source devices are fine, yes. I'm checking on the forum for the particular projector. Was wondering what I can do to protect the port.


Surge suppressors with HDMI support have been around for awhile but I don't know how effective they are, especially for the higher demands of 4k HDR because you would be introducing a "break" in the cable chain by going thru a suppressor.


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> Surge suppressors with HDMI support have been around for awhile but I don't know how effective they are, especially for the higher demands of 4k HDR because you would be introducing a "break" in the cable chain by going thru a suppressor.


Yeah, I don't know if they could handle 4k HDR. I'm looking into installing a whole house surge protector, such as the Easton CHSPT2ULTRA.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> Yeah, I don't know if they could handle 4k HDR. I'm looking into installing a whole house surge protector, such as the Easton CHSPT2ULTRA.


If you live in an area that has severe storms then a whole house surge protection (installed by a qualified electrician) is not a bad idea. Especially if you have lightening strike close to your home. I've never had an HDMI port fail but we don't get the weather like the Southeast and East Coast. I do have my HTS's on UPS backup but that's more for allowing me time to properly shutdown my systems in case I need to in a power outage, and I'm home.


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> If you live in an area that has severe storms then a whole house surge protection (installed by a qualified electrician) is not a bad idea. Especially if you have lightening strike close to your home. I've never had an HDMI port fail but we don't get the weather like the Southeast and East Coast. I do have my HTS's on UPS backup but that's more for allowing me time to properly shutdown my systems in case I need to in a power outage, and I'm home.


Yeah, I'm on the east cost (MD). I have a UPS backup so that the projector doesn't hard shut down. I hope it's not the UPS sending the surge. Which UPS backup do you have?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> Yeah, I'm on the east cost (MD). I have a UPS backup so that the projector doesn't hard shut down. I hope it's not the UPS sending the surge. Which UPS backup do you have?


I have older APC550s which probably aren't sufficient enough for some of my newer devices but they do chirp loud enough and long enough once power is compromised for me to shutdown the HTS's properly.


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> I have older APC550s which probably aren't sufficient enough for some of my newer devices but they do chirp loud enough and long enough once power is compromised for me to shutdown the HTS's properly.


I just ordered these:

Whole house surge protector:
https://www.amazon.com/CHSPT2ULTRA-Ultimate-Protection-Length-Height/dp/B01AQAKRSS 

Will also replace my current UPS with this:
https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hopefully the whole house surge suppressor you ordered will be sufficient for your area. I have heard that the best and safest ones are ones that an electrician who is knowledgeable on such matters installs. I have no personal experience with whole house surge suppression so I can't say for sure. Good luck.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The majority of HDMI devices and ports which we come across which have suffered an overvoltage would not have been saved by a surge suppressor - the overvoltage is usually entering the house via a roof mounted dish or aerial, passing via a Settop box and jumping via the HDMI cable shield to a TV, AVR or Video Matrix.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> The majority of HDMI devices and ports which we come across which have suffered an overvoltage would not have been saved by a surge suppressor - the overvoltage is usually entering the house via a roof mounted dish or aerial, passing via a Settop box and jumping via the HDMI cable shield to a TV, AVR or Video Matrix.
> 
> Joe


Ah. Good to know. So is it most commonly associated with outside antennas and not thru a cable or fiber connection?


----------



## Grayson73

Joe Fernand said:


> The majority of HDMI devices and ports which we come across which have suffered an overvoltage would not have been saved by a surge suppressor - the overvoltage is usually entering the house via a roof mounted dish or aerial, passing via a Settop box and jumping via the HDMI cable shield to a TV, AVR or Video Matrix.
> 
> Joe


I have Xfinity cable. I do have a roof mounted dish from previous home owner, but it shouldn't be connected to anything, so I don't know what is causing the HDMI overvoltage.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> I have Xfinity cable. I do have a roof mounted dish from previous home owner, but it shouldn't be connected to anything, so I don't know what is causing the HDMI overvoltage.


Hmmm, I too have Xfinity connected to two different home theater systems and have never encountered HDMI issues. They are on APC UPS's but only the power cables, not the HDMI or coax. Most strange. Any other wiring/power issues with anything else in your home? Flickering lights for example?


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, I too have Xfinity connected to two different home theater systems and have never encountered HDMI issues. They are on APC UPS's but only the power cables, not the HDMI or coax. Most strange. Any other wiring/power issues with anything else in your home? Flickering lights for example?


Same, only the power cables are on my APC UPS. I do get flickering lights during storms. My whole house surge protector was just installed today, and my new UPS should arrive tomorrow. We'll see if I have any further issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> Same, only the power cables are on my APC UPS. I do get flickering lights during storms. My whole house surge protector was just installed today, and my new UPS should arrive tomorrow. We'll see if I have any further issues.


Sounds like you've got a lot of transient charges floating around your area during storms. Hopefully the whole house surge protector will eliminate that as well as ensuring that your house is properly grounded given your area.


----------



## Grayson73

Has anyone tried the Metra ethereal HDM-SP3 HDMI Surge Protector?









Metra Ethereal HDM-SP3


HDMI surge protector




www.crutchfield.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Might be worth a try even though that does introduce the "break" in the HDMI chain. It also sounds like two would be needed, one for source and one for sink.


----------



## Grayson73

Otto Pylot said:


> Might be worth a try even though that does introduce the "break" in the HDMI chain. It also sounds like two would be needed, one for source and one for sink.


I've e-mailed them to see if I only need one if I only want to protect the projector's HDMI input. However, I'm not going to buy it unless I burn out another HDMI input. I want to see if the whole house surge + new UPS will do the trick.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> I've e-mailed them to see if I only need one if I only want to protect the projector's HDMI input. However, I'm not going to buy it unless I burn out another HDMI input. I want to see if the whole house surge + new UPS will do the trick.


Hopefully the whole house and new UPS will do the trick. The fewer the "dongles" you add to your HDMI chain the better. Good luck.


----------



## Grayson73

Regarding the *Ethereal HDM-SP3*, I got some answers:

*How many surges will it protect against?*
There truly isn’t a way to know this. The unit will protect up to 8000 volts at one time. These units are like an oil filter or air filter their effectiveness will eventually drop off. We recommend replacing these one every year or 2 at the most for max protection 

*How will I know when it is no longer effective? *
When the unit sacrifices itself you will not get any video pass thru and will need to replaced You only need to use it on the gear you plan on protecting. So for a projector you would only need one. We recommend that these by put on the HDMI ports of expensive display or gear and always on anything that is a connected to the outside world. Cable boxes and anything you connect to your local wifi network.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Grayson73 said:


> Regarding the *Ethereal HDM-SP3*, I got some answers:
> 
> *How many surges will it protect against?*
> There truly isn’t a way to know this. The unit will protect up to 8000 volts at one time. These units are like an oil filter or air filter their effectiveness will eventually drop off. We recommend replacing these one every year or 2 at the most for max protection
> 
> *How will I know when it is no longer effective? *
> When the unit sacrifices itself you will not get any video pass thru and will need to replaced You only need to use it on the gear you plan on protecting. So for a projector you would only need one. We recommend that these by put on the HDMI ports of expensive display or gear and always on anything that is a connected to the outside world. Cable boxes and anything you connect to your local wifi network.


Sounds like basic market-speak. It's a bit of a gamble as to how effective it will be but it's your call.


----------



## YoshiYogurt

Going to necro this old thread to if anyone has suggestions before creating an entirely new one since it was active last year. Long wall of text but this has been a long ongoing problem for me. I'm going through some kind of nightmare this summer and now fall with my apartment home theater setup which consisted of:

BenQ 2150ST projector, Yamaha V385 receiver, PS4, Nintendo Switch. 15foot HDMI cables from receiver HDMI OUT to projector input and consoles into receiver HDMI IN. There is no cable box or anything except my router which has coax for internet coming out of the wall to it.

I've had this setup for 2.5 years without issue until this august when this ongoing disaster won't stop. Every time the devices' HDMI ports are blown but the devices themselves all power on fine without issue (PS4 remote play works, receiver audio works etc) so it's not a power issue, just HDMI for some reason.

Four times now I've had nearly all HDMI ports along my system totally blown out except the switch dock/console which never took a blow.

Incident 1 (August 6): PS4 HDMI chip/port and all Yamaha V385 HDMI ports dead. Projector seemingly unaffected. PS4 chip replaced at a repair shop, used yamaha receiver purchased.

Incident 2 (August 15th-ish): PS4 chip blown again, receiver ports similarly blown. PS4 repaired. NEW v385 receiver purchased. NEW HDMI cables purchased this time. APC surge protector purchased and switched setup to different outlet.

Incident 3(September): projector HDMI 1 port blown, PS4 chip blown a 3rd time. Receiver ports blown.
I was certain the PS4 was the issue so I had my money refunded from the repair show and tossed it. Purchased a different PS4 (slim version now) from a friend who had it sitting in box. Got the receiver totally exchanged for free. Using HDMI2 port on projector now. Everything was smooth for 3 weeks.

Incident 4(Friday oct. 8th) Projector HDMI 2 port blown. Slim PS4 HDMI blown. Exchanged receiver blown. In the process of sending projector to BenQ for repair.

I am at the end of my rope here. I'm suspecting now that it was the projector frying everything, but I don't want to get it back and have every HDMI port fry again if I get another PS4 and receiver. I don't think it's the mystical thunderstorm EMP since yes, this year has been stormier than average but it's not like there weren't thunderstorms the past 2 years either. My PC and monitors in a different room are totally unaffected too.

I'm pulling my hair out and have lost $400 in consoles and receivers already + another likely $250 for a new PS4 and receiver IF i can find cheap ones. Going to attempt to see if the renter's insurance will cover the $600-700 I'm going to have lost already.

Is there no kind of HDMI protection or braided/insulated cables (not the Monster scam junk) I can get? Any sort of switches that can catch the surge/static? Could try using 1.5ft or 3ft cable from the consoles to the reciever and reduce 15ft cable from the projector to 10ft since it is only 7ish feet way since it's a short throw. That may prevent weird lightning EMP static through the air or whatever but I dont even believe that's the problem since I've never heard of that or have had that happen to any PC desks or home theater other setups.

I'm almost certain now it's the projector but I WAS almost certain it was the old PS4 chip frying everything. I'm going to go absolutely crazy (more so than I am now) If I get the projector back from BenQ, buy a new ps4/receiver and have a FIFTH incident of receiver/ps4/projector ports dies.


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## Otto Pylot

Sounds to me that you have a short or bad wiring somewhere in your system. Have you had an electrician look at the circuit wiring that your system is connected to? I don't think there is any type of suppressor that would correct your problem. Do you have a whole house voltage suppressor?


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## Grayson73

YoshiYogurt said:


> Going to necro this old thread to if anyone has suggestions before creating an entirely new one since it was active last year. Long wall of text but this has been a long ongoing problem for me. I'm going through some kind of nightmare this summer and now fall with my apartment home theater setup which consisted of:
> 
> BenQ 2150ST projector, Yamaha V385 receiver, PS4, Nintendo Switch. 15foot HDMI cables from receiver HDMI OUT to projector input and consoles into receiver HDMI IN. There is no cable box or anything except my router which has coax for internet coming out of the wall to it.
> 
> I've had this setup for 2.5 years without issue until this august when this ongoing disaster won't stop. Every time the devices' HDMI ports are blown but the devices themselves all power on fine without issue (PS4 remote play works, receiver audio works etc) so it's not a power issue, just HDMI for some reason.
> 
> Four times now I've had nearly all HDMI ports along my system totally blown out except the switch dock/console which never took a blow.
> 
> Incident 1 (August 6): PS4 HDMI chip/port and all Yamaha V385 HDMI ports dead. Projector seemingly unaffected. PS4 chip replaced at a repair shop, used yamaha receiver purchased.
> 
> Incident 2 (August 15th-ish): PS4 chip blown again, receiver ports similarly blown. PS4 repaired. NEW v385 receiver purchased. NEW HDMI cables purchased this time. APC surge protector purchased and switched setup to different outlet.
> 
> Incident 3(September): projector HDMI 1 port blown, PS4 chip blown a 3rd time. Receiver ports blown.
> I was certain the PS4 was the issue so I had my money refunded from the repair show and tossed it. Purchased a different PS4 (slim version now) from a friend who had it sitting in box. Got the receiver totally exchanged for free. Using HDMI2 port on projector now. Everything was smooth for 3 weeks.
> 
> Incident 4(Friday oct. 8th) Projector HDMI 2 port blown. Slim PS4 HDMI blown. Exchanged receiver blown. In the process of sending projector to BenQ for repair.
> 
> I am at the end of my rope here. I'm suspecting now that it was the projector frying everything, but I don't want to get it back and have every HDMI port fry again if I get another PS4 and receiver. I don't think it's the mystical thunderstorm EMP since yes, this year has been stormier than average but it's not like there weren't thunderstorms the past 2 years either. My PC and monitors in a different room are totally unaffected too.
> 
> I'm pulling my hair out and have lost $400 in consoles and receivers already + another likely $250 for a new PS4 and receiver IF i can find cheap ones. Going to attempt to see if the renter's insurance will cover the $600-700 I'm going to have lost already.
> 
> Is there no kind of HDMI protection or braided/insulated cables (not the Monster scam junk) I can get? Any sort of switches that can catch the surge/static? Could try using 1.5ft or 3ft cable from the consoles to the reciever and reduce 15ft cable from the projector to 10ft since it is only 7ish feet way since it's a short throw. That may prevent weird lightning EMP static through the air or whatever but I dont even believe that's the problem since I've never heard of that or have had that happen to any PC desks or home theater other setups.
> 
> I'm almost certain now it's the projector but I WAS almost certain it was the old PS4 chip frying everything. I'm going to go absolutely crazy (more so than I am now) If I get the projector back from BenQ, buy a new ps4/receiver and have a FIFTH incident of receiver/ps4/projector ports dies.


I had 3 HDMI ports blow out on 3 projectors. I installed a whole house surge protector and replaced my UPS and haven't had an issue since. I also got a power strip that turns everything off when I turn off my AVR.

Whole house surge protector - Amazon.com: EATON CHSPT2ULTRA Ultimate Surge Protection 3rd Edition, 2.38" Length, 5.25" Width 7.5" Height : Electronics
UPS - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/


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## YoshiYogurt

Grayson73 said:


> I had 3 HDMI ports blow out on 3 projectors. I installed a whole house surge protector and replaced my UPS and haven't had an issue since. I also got a power strip that turns everything off when I turn off my AVR.
> 
> Whole house surge protector - Amazon.com: EATON CHSPT2ULTRA Ultimate Surge Protection 3rd Edition, 2.38" Length, 5.25" Width 7.5" Height : Electronics
> UPS - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/


Being in an apartment, I can’t really mess with the electrical service. I should have the cash(this mess is not helping though) to buy my own home next year if there’s anything desirable in the area. Will of course have whole surge protection when the time comes. Regardless I don’t think it’s a power issue, the devices and consoles power on fine, just HDMI gets blown. Could try the UPS on its own though that may not help without the whole house surge protector.
What power strip did you get that will turn off with the AVR? Would be useful to not have to get up and turn off the power strip everytime


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## Grayson73

YoshiYogurt said:


> Being in an apartment, I can’t really mess with the electrical service. I should have the cash(this mess is not helping though) to buy my own home next year if there’s anything desirable in the area. Will of course have whole surge protection when the time comes. Regardless I don’t think it’s a power issue, the devices and consoles power on fine, just HDMI gets blown. Could try the UPS on its own though that may not help without the whole house surge protector.
> What power strip did you get that will turn off with the AVR? Would be useful to not have to get up and turn off the power strip everytime


Yeah, it was strange for me that HDMI was blowing, but none of the device power supplies.

Any power strip with a "control" outlet works. When you turn on/off the device plugged into the "control" outlet, it turns on/off the devices plugged into the "switched" outlets.

I'm using this one - https://www.amazon.com/TrickleStar-Outlet-Advanced-PowerStrip-Joules/dp/B00JPDYYSM

I see this on Amazon also - https://www.amazon.com/SCG-3MVR-Smart-Strip-7-Outlets-Protector/dp/B000P1QJXQ/


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## Otto Pylot

I use APS UPS units on both of my HTS's. The system downstairs has two UPS's to cover the HTS and the router/modem and cable box. The one upstairs has one UPS for just the HTS and cable box. We don't normally have huge electrical storms here, only occasional power outages so the UPS's give me time to properly shutdown the systems and just wait out the power outage as well as protect against a power surge once the power comes back on if I'm not around. The APS units are on all of the time but draw very little current so there is no delay powering up the HTS's. The APS units do have HDMI and USB ports as well but I don't use them.


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## YoshiYogurt

Otto Pylot said:


> Sounds to me that you have a short or bad wiring somewhere in your system. Have you had an electrician look at the circuit wiring that your system is connected to? I don't think there is any type of suppressor that would correct your problem. Do you have a whole house voltage suppressor?


It's an apartment so I can't install any whole home surge protection. Doesn't seem to be bad wiring since the router/modem on the same surge protector and circuit come out completely unscathed as well and every device powers on perfectly fine. Can't be a short in the AVR or PS4 wiring since it's ruined multiple of those. Purely an HDMI dying issue which I suspect is the projector input somehow frying the AVR and PS4 or lightning induced EMI somehow through the long 15ft HDMI cables. I don't know if a UPS will help since it's not a power issue but might be worth trying but I already have an APC surge protector - don't really need the battery backup a UPS offers unless it offers more protection beyond just surge suppression. I doubt there was an actual power surge. 

There was also ethernet wired from the modem/router into the PS4, so maybe coax surge could have traveled over that into the ps4. Seems unlikely as my PC was unaffected.

I'm convinced it's the projector (which is on the way to BenQ for repair). The problem never occurs when I'm actually using the setup, every time I have come home to blown HDMI inputs after work, etc. Going to try shorter 10ft cables, new speaker wire, and wireless ethernet with the modem on a different surge protector/outlet. By the time I get the projector back it will be getting close to snow season instead of more rain/storms but It's not like there haven't been storms before the past few months though when everything worked great for 2 years.


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