# X-104 YOUniversal 3D Glasses (XpanD) Are [NOT] Here!



## Augerhandle

* http://www.xpand.me/products/youniversal-3d-glasses/ *

Attachment 206098 (click to enlarge)



> Quote:
> YOUNIVERSAL high-end glasses will begin shipping in April 2011 and will communicate with *Infrared (IR), Bluetooth (BT), Radio Frequency (RF) and DLP-Link.*


*EDIT:* *New date: 3rd Qtr 2011*


From Tjasa Vrhovnik http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/product-support/xpand-universal-3d-glasses/14/ #



> Quote:
> *I'm sorry for the wrong information on the product page and thanks for noticing. It's changed now to Q3 2011.*



Previously mentioned by *browerjs* on AVS in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...l#post19782245


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## nickels55

Still waiting on pricing info and a concrete release date, as well as some reviews on performance.


As always we need to know:

do they sync and stay synced

do they display rainbows

do they remove the tints from blacks on older DLP Link enabled sets

how is the weight

do they fit over prescription glasses

how is the contrast

do they have reverse sync switches

are they worth the high-end pricetag

are they better then MonsterVision or CrystalEyes glasses


At least there are some promising glasses coming out very soon.


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## Ron Jones

Add to the list of questions: Is their polarizing element within the liquid crystal lens vertical oriented, as with the X103 glasses, or have they come up with a means to switch it between vertical and horizontal orientation? While most LCD/LED 3DTVs (e.g., Samsung) use vertical polarization, some 3D displays use horizontal (e.g., JVC projectors, HP 3D laptops).


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## jbolt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* /forum/post/20185928
> 
> 
> Add to the list of questions: Is their polarizing element with the liquid crystal lens vertical oriented, as with the X103 glasses, or have they come up with a means to switch it between vertical and horizontal orientation? While most LCD/LED 3DTVs (e.g., Samsung) use vertical polarization, some 3D displays use horizontal (e.g., JVC projectors, HP 3D laptops).



I don't really care how much better or not they work with the JVC projectors. I would buy them alone for the design. Much better looking than the stock JVC glasses, the Xpand x103s, or the MonsterVision Max 3D glasses. I just hope they are not more expensive that the Monster or JVC glasses and at least brighter than the JVCs.


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## nickels55

When using them they are on your face, you are in a dark room, and who cares if they are sleek looking then if they don't work? I'll take a butt-ugly set of glasses as long as the 3D looks good, the blacks are black, the glasses stay synced, and there are no rainbows on my screen. I'd prefer if they also looked nice, but that is somewhere at the bottom of a very long list.


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## Justin-Dawson

If they fit like normal sunglasses, without being able to see the reflections of what's behind you in the corner of the lenses, I'm sold.


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## bd2003

I can't wait to hear more about these things. The iOS app is the thing that mainly has me intrigued. I'm thinking if I'm able to tune the shutter length I can seriously reduce the amount of crosstalk at the expense of some brightness and flicker. It's a tradeoff I'd probably be willing to make.


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## Vampyro

Would be great if they released a USB RF transmitter for these glasses!


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## Daniel Murray

Hope they give better color than the Mitsubishi glasses.


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## sonofsoren

My question would be is how they compare to the MonsterVision glasses?


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## JewDaddy

Maybe I'm overlooking this, but are these glasses DLP Link only or will they work with an emitter. I have the LG-55LX9500 that has a built in emitter. Just curious if these will be compatible.


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## nickels55

Looking over the Spec sheet tells me these glasses are primarily IR glasses, but you can buy extension modules (I have no idea what this means) to make the DLP Link and RF.


In other words, yes, they are DLP Link, after you buy an additional accessory.


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## Mikenificent1

Why is this thread titled "the YOUniversal glasses are here", when they clearly are not and won't be for at least another 2.5 weeks???


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## shinksma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikenificent1* /forum/post/20218705
> 
> 
> Why is this thread titled "the YOUniversal glasses are here", when they clearly are not and won't be for at least another 2.5 weeks???



Yeah, I was looking forward to an actual user review, and all we have the marketing bumpf repeated.


So does the OP anticipate getting advance access to the X104s and provide some insight?


shinksma


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## jbolt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikenificent1* /forum/post/20218705
> 
> 
> Why is this thread titled "the YOUniversal glasses are here", when they clearly are not and won't be for at least another 2.5 weeks???



I know that XPAND mentioned an April release, but how did you hear about the Youniversals being released in 2.5 weeks or is that just an estimate? I have been trying to find any info I could on it the last couple of days. That would be great as I have been holding off on buying additional glasses to see how these do compared to XPAND X103 or stock JVCs.


I have been tempted to go on and buy a few pairs of the Xpand X103 to go with my one pair of JVCs, but I would rather have the RF sync with the iPhone app customization and the better design. I just hope they are brighter than the JVCs, block out reflections better, and don't cost too much.


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## TedO

These look like just the ticket for me. I now have a Sony LCD tv but will be adding a JVC projecor in my HT. I'd like buy the glasses now to use with the Sony but would use them mainly with the JVC once that is in place and running.


The two other big pluses for these glasses are they are rechargable and (if available) RF controlled. Still a big question of performance and price.


With a launch date of April, I'm suprised they haven't started a pre-order. I suspect they won't be released until later, maybe June or July.


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mikenificent1* /forum/post/20218705
> 
> 
> Why is this thread titled "the YOUniversal glasses are here", when they clearly are not and won't be for at least another 2.5 weeks???




This thread announced the product link to the manufacturer of these glasses. Some of us have been waiting over a year for them to show up on XpanD's website. Sorry you were disappointed.


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## jsteinmann

the x103 glasses are sold all over the place on the internet, and almost all of the reviews are very happy.


what's the technical advantage of this pair over say the 103s, or the pairs that often come free with your tv?


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## Mikenificent1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbolt* /forum/post/20219225
> 
> 
> I know that XPAND mentioned an April release, but how did you hear about the Youniversals being released in 2.5 weeks or is that just an estimate? I have been trying to find any info I could on it the last couple of days. That would be great as I have been holding off on buying additional glasses to see how these do compared to XPAND X103 or stock JVCs.



I thought I saw somewhere that they were being released April 15th, could be wrong though.


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickels55* /forum/post/20218628
> 
> 
> Looking over the Spec sheet tells me these glasses are primarily IR glasses, but you can buy extension modules (I have no idea what this means) to make the DLP Link and RF.
> 
> 
> In other words, yes, they are DLP Link, after you buy an additional accessory.



Yes, they require an extension module (+ battery) for DLP®Link and RF.


Could it be that thing at the end of the right earpiece?


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## TedO

Looking at the blog on he Xpand web site and one of the service tech's wrote


"X104 YOUniversal Glasses has a capability to synchronize with Bluetooth. Possibly, the date of preliminary release in the market will be July this year and the price hasn't been finalized yet."


Looks like we're talking JULY. I guess I should just buy the Sony's or the X103s and worry about the 104s after I put my projector in.

http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-glasses/14/#


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## bd2003




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TedO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking at the blog on he Xpand web site and one of the service tech's wrote
> 
> 
> "X104 YOUniversal Glasses has a capability to synchronize with Bluetooth. Possibly, the date of preliminary release in the market will be July this year and the price hasn't been finalized yet."
> 
> 
> Looks like we're talking JULY. I guess I should just buy the Sony's or the X103s and worry about the 104s after I put my projector in.
> 
> http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-glasses/14/#



Is that July on the BT module, or the glasses themselves?


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## reflexrabbit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/20224145
> 
> 
> Is that July on the BT module, or the glasses themselves?



The xpand site still says April so I would say the glasses are coming in April, but who knows.


I just bought some of the Panasonic ones for my GT25. Maybe my second pair will be the x104.


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TedO* /forum/post/20224138
> 
> 
> Looking at the blog on he Xpand web site and one of the service tech's wrote
> 
> 
> "X104 YOUniversal Glasses has a capability to synchronize with Bluetooth. Possibly, the date of preliminary release in the market will be July this year and the price hasn’t been finalized yet."
> 
> 
> Looks like we're talking JULY. I guess I should just buy the Sony's or the X103s and worry about the 104s after I put my projector in.
> 
> http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-glasses/14/#



Interesting.... I posted a question yesterday at the above support site asking about the discrepency between the two release dates, and my post was deleted. I just re-posted, so let's see what happens.


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## Augerhandle

*New date: 3rd Qtr 2011*


From Tjasa Vrhovnik http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...3d-glasses/14/ #



> Quote:
> I'm sorry for the *wrong information* on the product page and thanks for noticing. *It's changed now to Q3 2011*.


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## BishopLord




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/20231378
> 
> *New date: 3rd Qtr 2011*
> 
> 
> From Tjasa Vrhovnik http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...3d-glasses/14/ #



We're heading into the 2nd month of the 4th Quarter, any news on these glasses?


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## DenisG

I think I read December some where, but couldn't find it again.


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## kode4food




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenisG* /forum/post/21132996
> 
> 
> I think I read December some where, but couldn't find it again.



Someone from xpand technical support said that they would be available by december. Of course tech support rarely is in the loop on releases, so who knows if its true or not.

http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...ment-341011197 


Been looking forward to these for a while. My HX929 is great, but Sony's 3d glasses are terrible. Okay for movies, but too much crosstalk for gaming. Hoping these will reduce it a bit.


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## BishopLord

This sounds a lot like the 3D-XL debacle from last year that bled into the 2nd quarter of 2011.


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## R10KYJ

They do exist, the first batch were received by UK dealers on Weds, and have started shipping, so am sure they will appear in the US soon


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## hazz

How much do they cost?


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## ftlee

R10KYJ - Are the X104s IR, DLP-Link, or RF?


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## R10KYJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ftlee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> R10KYJ - Are the X104s IR, DLP-Link, or RF?



Currently IR only, but they will be releasing an add on module later in the year to activate rf & bt.


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## stene




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R10KYJ* /forum/post/21137374
> 
> 
> They do exist, the first batch were received by UK dealers on Weds, and have started shipping, so am sure they will appear in the US soon



Can you give us some impressions about the glasses, are they any good? How does the 'tweak' app work? I have big problems with crosstalk, you think it will reduce that issue?


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## AmigoHD

I don't guess the "tweak app" is out yet, as I do not find it on the Appstore...


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## OzHDHT

For those who would not have seen my post on the Sony VW90ES owners thread:


Guys, finally, after a shipping delay, Fedex delivered my Xpand Youniversals today, right on time for me to review them tonight and over the weekend. Fingers crossed here for an significant performance improvement over the X103s and as stated already by a couple of others in the UK, the Sony's. I also note the Youniversals are now shipping online in the US from online stores according to a poster on the Xpand support forum, within the actual thread complaining about the lack of the app. Very poor form on Xpands part regarding no app, esp after such a delayed product launch. I really hope I don't regret being the guinea pig here and wish I'd have long since instead purchased some MV3D's! Guess tonight's testing will be a start. Anyway, here's the product packaging:


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## bd2003

Awesome, can't wait to hear about them.


The main things I want to know is whether they block out less light when they're on, and whether they reduce crosstalk.


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## hazz

I ordered a pair from Projector People last weekend for $79 shipped. There was a $25 discount for blackfriday.


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/21289292
> 
> 
> Awesome, can't wait to hear about them.
> 
> 
> The main things I want to know is whether they block out less light when they're on, and whether they reduce crosstalk.



Compared to Sony TDG-PG1's, they def block less light. Of course any system using LCD shutters is going to be prone to some light blocking. Cross talk reduction is as good as anything else I've seen and as expected superior to the X103's. With the absence of the much talked about app, it's hard to say what else can be achieved with fine tuning of them



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hazz* /forum/post/21292607
> 
> 
> I ordered a pair from Projector People last weekend for $79 shipped. There was a $25 discount for blackfriday.



That's a great price. I knew that I was paying significant premium for early availability from the UK. Mine were 89 pounds each before cost of fedex.



Rather than repost here's my initial impressions on them from weekend view with my VW95:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21288959 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21293342


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## OzHDHT

Guys just to add to what has been a much delayed and poorly supplied product roll-out, another disappointing(but hardly surprising) update from the Xpand 3D forums re the X104 tweaking apps. The tech support department finally got off their butts and responded to the complaints re lack of any app form of the much promoted 'multi-platform' tweaking app being available. Sure enough there response was to say it will be between end of Dec and 'the first month of Jan'. Quite pathetic after the products been launched for a month in markets like the UK! Here's the exact quote and my rather blunt response:



> Quote:
> xpandtechsupport
> 
> Thank you for your interest with our XpanD product. In regards to the PC application the link that we have for the x104 youniversal 3d software application should be live around last month of this December or first month of January in this link http://www.xpand.me/products/y .... Please always check our website to keep up with updates that we have for you..
> 
> 
> Should you need further assistance kindly give us a call
> 
> at 1.888.906.1190 or email us again.





> Quote:
> Ozhdht
> 
> Geez I have to say Xpand, that is extremely poor to pre-promote this product feature and then only promise to that it will be made available well over a month after the product launch. I'm relieved the 3 pairs of X104s I purchased 3 weeks ago work decently enough out of the box with my Sony VW95 projector in the meantime. However, it would have been nice to be able to experiment and customise the adjustable parameters the way Monster Vision 3D owners have been from the time that product came out...


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## browerjs

Are the x104's RF compatible? For that to happen to they have to release an RF module?


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## bd2003




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21344567
> 
> 
> Guys just to add to what has been a much delayed and poorly supplied product roll-out, another disappointing(but hardly surprising) update from the Xpand 3D forums re the X104 tweaking apps. The tech support department finally got off their butts and responded to the complaints re lack of any app form of the much promoted 'multi-platform' tweaking app being available. Sure enough there response was to say it will be between end of Dec and 'the first month of Jan'. Quite pathetic after the products been launched for a month in markets like the UK! Here's the exact quote and my rather blunt response:



Lame. Not even considering them until the app is out.


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## hazz

They feel and work great on my Sony ex723.


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/21345762
> 
> 
> Are the x104's RF compatible? For that to happen to they have to release an RF module?



I believe the idea is not to have a separate emitter like the MV3Ds, but to potentially work with systems that are already RF enable, same as the BT integration in them. I could be mistaken though...


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## browerjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21348660
> 
> 
> I believe the idea is not to have a separate emitter like the MV3Ds, but to potentially work with systems that are already RF enable, same as the BT integration in them. I could be mistaken though...



Ugh, so my Sony HW30 wouldn't be able to use RF with these glasses. Although if you could pair them to an RF signal you may be able to use the MV3D emitter in conjunction with the X104s?


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *browerjs* /forum/post/21351106
> 
> 
> Ugh, so my Sony HW30 wouldn't be able to use RF with these glasses. Although if you could pair them to an RF signal you may be able to use the MV3D emitter in conjunction with the X104s?



Prob best to try to ask on the Xpand Support forums as to whether they will be making an RF emitter. I would say if they are designed work with exist RF systems, then yes I would think they prob could be made to work with the MV3D emitter.


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## Augerhandle

And what happened to DLP-Link capability, as XpanD originally claimed?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenisG* /forum/post/19782064
> 
> 
> I wonder if they will do DLP link.
> 
> *Edit*
> 
> Oh, yes they will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xpandcinema.com/news/67/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Available in black, gray and red in male and female sizes, the new *YOUNIVERSAL* high-end glasses will begin shipping in April 2011 and will communicate with Infrared (IR), Bluetooth (BT), Radio Frequency (RF) and DLP-Link. The smart phone app will initially be available for Apple iPhone™ and Google Android™ platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like they just renamed the X104 to YOUniversal.
> 
> Time to start saving pennies.
Click to expand...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/20182502
> 
> * http://www.xpand.me/products/youniversal-3d-glasses/ *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> YOUNIVERSAL high-end glasses will begin shipping in April 2011 and will communicate with *Infrared (IR), Bluetooth (BT), Radio Frequency (RF) and DLP-Link.*
Click to expand...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickels55* /forum/post/20218628
> 
> 
> Looking over the Spec sheet tells me these glasses are primarily IR glasses, but you can buy extension modules (I have no idea what this means) to make the DLP Link and RF.
> 
> 
> In other words, yes, they are DLP Link, after you buy an additional accessory.


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## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And what happened to DLP-Link capability, as XpanD originally claimed?



I'm not sure how DLP link works, but the glasses claim to work on most IR based displays, including DLP 3D. There are a dozen modes to choose from, including Mitsubishi, but it can choose the correct one automatically if 3D is running and you press and hold the button twice. You won't get anything but IR unless you add a module to the end of the earpiece (you can see it in the picture - but it is not available yet), for RF and Bluetooth, an additional cost and won't be here for maybe a couple of months, like the software. Plus, without Bluetooth the software app for adjusting timings won't work unless wired to a computer while watching 3D.


Pros: They do sync just as well as the Panny 3D3's, have the same range (very good) and show identical ghosting if there is any, so they are just as fast and sensitive but yet have more field of view.


Cons: The glasses are slightly dimmer than the Panny 3D3's and they are heavy and pinch behind the ears (large size).

You have to re-sync the glasses every time you use them. The manual says they remember but they don't.

The on/off button is right where you hold the glasses, so you can accidentally turn it off very easily.

The most annoying thing that broke the deal for me is that they reflect light from the rear of the room at the sides, which is distracting. This is in a dark room and the reflectons are from objects in the rear of the room that reflect light from the movie itself. No way to prevent this. It's because the sides of the glasses are not wide enough to block it out. Prescription glasses make it worse.


Sorry I got carried away.


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## TonyDP

Anyone have any ideas when the 104 glasses will be more widely available in the USA? I notice that Amazon.com doesn't even have a listing for them.


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## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TonyDP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have any ideas when the 104 glasses will be more widely available in the USA? I notice that Amazon.com doesn't even have a listing for them.



Projector People.


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carey P* /forum/post/21360888
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how DLP link works...[snip]


 http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=DLP-Link 





> Quote:
> Thanks to DLP Link, a special synchronization system built into 3D Ready DLP projectors, *the glasses link to the projector without any special emitters* or 3rd party transmission devices.
> 
> 
> Because the DLP imaging chip is so fast...the DLP chip also sends additional data to the glasses in-between each frame of video.
> 
> 
> ...This ingenious transmission technique makes data emitters obsolete and eliminates the need to install and position emitters.


 http://www.dlp.com/projector/dlp-inn.../dlp-link.aspx 


XpanD claimed DLP-Link™ capability for these glasses over a year ago.


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## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=DLP-Link
> 
> http://www.dlp.com/projector/dlp-inn.../dlp-link.aspx
> 
> 
> XpanD claimed DLP-Link(TM) capability for these glasses over a year ago.



Interesting, so it gets the signal from the screen itself. I assumed DLP link used IR. I wouldn't be surprised if it was false advertising.

I like that first link where it takes you through Google. Pretty cool!

Edit: found the lmgtfy app.


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## rwestley

These glasses will not work with DLP link according to Xpand.

http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-eyewear/110/


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## brickyardz

Has anyone ordered these yet? If you go to Xpands website, click shop, they are the first item that comes up. Available in large size,in blue, and they are listed for $119. I have been waiting for these to come out. Just wanted to see how these are compared to the 103's?


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brickyardz* /forum/post/21409830
> 
> 
> Has anyone ordered these yet? If you go to Xpands website, click shop, they are the first item that comes up. Available in large size,in blue, and they are listed for $119. I have been waiting for these to come out. Just wanted to see how these are compared to the 103's?



Took them long enough! I've hade mine from a UK dealer since 4th Dec and they were available through a few outlets since mid November. If you could take a second and just scroll up this page you'll see the direct links to my initial impressions in the Sony VW95 thread and comparisons to the X103s and current Sony models.


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## zkidz

They got them first over in England, so there are some reviews over on the avforums UK site.


I'm holding off until I can see the tweak app is out and I can read the manual. Tunable glasses you cannot tune aren't very interesting.


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## brickyardz

Just got an e-mail back from them,and they are available now. You can get them right from Xpands website or here

http://www.projectorpeople.com/acces...=creviews#tabs


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brickyardz* /forum/post/21410037
> 
> 
> Just got an e-mail back from them,and they are available now. You can get them right from Xpands website or here
> 
> http://www.projectorpeople.com/acces...=creviews#tabs



Seriously you need to read this page of this thread a bit more closely. The fact that the projector people had them in stock was established by CareyP back on the 18th Dec.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21361265


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21406711
> 
> 
> These glasses will not work with DLP link according to Xpand.
> 
> http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-eyewear/110/



Exactly my point.


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## bd2003

Any update on the availability of the tuning app? I'm willing to suffer a little more brightness loss and/or flicker to reduce crosstalk...but I'm still waiting to see it I actually works.


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## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/21412542
> 
> 
> Any update on the availability of the tuning app? I'm willing to suffer a little more brightness loss and/or flicker to reduce crosstalk...but I'm still waiting to see it I actually works.



Last I read on the Xpand forum was 'in Jan'. So far minus the app, I'm finding them a big enough improvement all round over the Sony TDG-PG1's and X103s, that not being able tweak them potentially to poss further enhance my VW95 is not stopping me from enjoying them in the meantime.


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## nowknown

I've seen one poster say "The new design is extremely comfortable" and another say "they are heavy and pinch behind the ears". So who is right?!


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## bd2003




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowknown* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've seen one poster say "The new design is extremely comfortable" and another say "they are heavy and pinch behind the ears". So who is right?!



Probably depends on your head.


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## rwestley

I find them uncomfortable compared to the MV and other glasses. They also have a rubber cover for the usb charging port that is very difficult to put back on. The large size is very is not very wide compared to other brands. I will be going to CES this week and will stop by the Xpand booth and let them know what I think. I will also see when and if they plan to post their software.


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## nightfly85




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowknown* /forum/post/21452778
> 
> 
> I've seen one poster say "The new design is extremely comfortable" and another say "they are heavy and pinch behind the ears". So who is right?!



They are lighter and more comfortable than the x103s (and work better IMHO).


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowknown* /forum/post/21452778
> 
> 
> I've seen one poster say "The new design is extremely comfortable" and another say "they are heavy and pinch behind the ears". So who is right?!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/21452830
> 
> 
> Probably depends on your head.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nightfly85* /forum/post/21455810
> 
> 
> They are lighter and more comfortable than the x103s (and work better IMHO).



I agree, would prob depend on the individuals head. Mine are far more comfortable than the X103s and all of the Sony's I've had, plus Samsungs.

IMHO, you can't get all that much more 'glasses like' in form and fit.


----------



## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nightfly85* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> They are lighter and more comfortable than the x103s (and work better IMHO).



They are heavy and pinch behind the ears. My head is large but my wife's head is small and they still pinched behind her ears.


I was comparing against the Panasonic 3rd gen glasses which are far lighter and you forget you're wearing them. But there were much more annoying things other than the rubber thingy always falling out that finally led me to return mine for a refund. I listed those in my review elsewhere.


----------



## nowknown

Well, the Optima/MV glasses were okay comfort and weight wise - and by ok I mean fail.

I need glasses that are comfortable for an hour or two of play/viewing - not ten or fifteen minutes like every pair I have ever tried (and I have tried alot.) I was hoping these would be the ones.


----------



## saltysteven




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowknown* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, the Optima/MV glasses were okay comfort and weight wise - and by ok I mean fail.
> 
> I need glasses that are comfortable for an hour or two of play/viewing - not ten or fifteen minutes like every pair I have ever tried (and I have tried alot.) I was hoping these would be the ones.



So is the best still panny 3rd generation?

Is there no best bang for the buck yet that's comfortable enough to get through a movie?? I was hoping to read that I might have found that in this thread


----------



## nowknown

Regarding Panny 3rd gen...these will only work with Panny, no? Not Optoma HD33?


----------



## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *saltysteven* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> So is the best still panny 3rd generation?
> 
> Is there no best bang for the buck yet that's comfortable enough to get through a movie?? I was hoping to read that I might have found that in this thread



It's the best for Panny or Epson, unless you need glasses to share with other brands.


The 3rd gen Panny's are slightly brighter, far lighter weight, fit comfortably with an adjustable nose support and don't pinch behind the ears, always sync back up after they are turned off, don't reflect what's behind you, fit in front of prescription glasses easier, don't have a rubber thingy falling out, don't have a switch right where you grab the glasses so they accidentally turn off, have an added feature to allow watching in 2D.

The bad thing about the Panny's is that they are smaller in lens area so you do see more below or above the glasses, however with the lights off its not so much a problem. Sure it would be nice if the gen 4's are a bit larger and brighter.


----------



## old corps




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carey P* /forum/post/21473677
> 
> 
> It's the best for Panny or Epson, unless you need glasses to share with other brands.
> 
> 
> The 3rd gen Panny's are slightly brighter, far lighter weight, fit comfortably with an adjustable nose support and don't pinch behind the ears, always sync back up after they are turned off, don't reflect what's behind you, fit in front of prescription glasses easier, don't have a rubber thingy falling out, don't have a switch right where you grab the glasses so they accidentally turn off, have an added feature to allow watching in 2D.
> 
> The bad thing about the Panny's is that they are smaller in lens area so you do see more below or above the glasses, however with the lights off its not so much a problem. Sure it would be nice if the gen 4's are a bit larger and brighter.



Agree 100%!










Ed


----------



## rwestley

I spent some time at the Xpand booth at CES. The software for the 104 glasses should be coming very soon. I had a chance to preview it and it is very easy to use. Xpand104's are now being sold by Projector People. The have a special deal with 3 pairs. Other dealers should also be selling them soon. Xpand was also demonstrating the RF dongle for these glasses. It should be available in March for those who may need or want it.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21480248
> 
> 
> I spent some time at the Xpand booth at CES. The software for the 104 glasses should be coming very soon. I had a chance to preview it and it is very easy to use. Xpand104's are now being sold by Projector People. The have a special deal with 3 pairs. Other dealers should also be selling them soon. Xpand was also demonstrating the RF dongle for these glasses. It should be available in March for those who may need or want it.



Good info thanks. Hopefully if the software you previewed is more or less fully operational, there is little excuse left for them not to roll it out already. Good to hear re the RF. A few of the really hardcore MV3D owners are intent on RF support. Mine work fine off the IR coming out of my Sony VW95.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21480344
> 
> 
> Good info thanks. Hopefully if the software you previewed is more or less fully operational, there is little excuse left for them not to roll it out already. Good to hear re the RF. A few of the really hardcore MV3D owners are intent on RF support. Mine work fine off the IR coming out of my Sony VW95.



I spoke with one of the developers from Slovenia and I was told that it is nearly ready. I was also told that it should be released very soon. I think they are tweaking the software no and really want to get it right. It is very easy to use with a laptop. The software will tweak the timings we will have to wait and see if it helps with ghosting on some projectors or tv's. Expand will also have the 104's available in different colors along with the RF adapter available in a few months.


----------



## zkidz

@rwestly: Do you recall if there was an individual left/right lens control, or just generic phase/duty. Mainly here I am thinking of Simulview and for people with vision disorders -- will the software let you tweak both lenses into sync to produce 2D image from one side of the 3D stream?


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21500808
> 
> 
> @rwestly: Do you recall if there was an individual left/right lens control, or just generic phase/duty. Mainly here I am thinking of Simulview and for people with vision disorders -- will the software let you tweak both lenses into sync to produce 2D image from one side of the 3D stream?



There were two controls but I don't think there is an individual Left/Right lens control. I don't think that there software would solve the problem. I think it only had delay and duty cycle similar to the Monster glasses.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21481480
> 
> 
> I spoke with one of the developers from Slovenia and I was told that it is nearly ready. I was also told that it should be released very soon. I think they are tweaking the software no and really want to get it right. It is very easy to use with a laptop. The software will tweak the timings we will have to wait and see if it helps with ghosting on some projectors or tv's. Expand will also have the 104's available in different colors along with the RF adapter available in a few months.



I really hope aside from cloning what Monster has already done with their PC app, Xpand bloody launches the much touted smartphone apps at the same time. Why does it not surprise me with the history of Xpands products and support, they are using former Eastern Block country developers...


----------



## bd2003




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope aside from cloning what Monster has already done with their PC app, Xpand bloody launches the much touted smartphone apps at the same time. Why does it not surprise me with the history of Xpands products and support, they are using former Eastern Block country developers...



Monster also has tunable glasses? Which model are those? How do they compare with the x104s?


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/21504448
> 
> 
> Monster also has tunable glasses? Which model are those? How do they compare with the x104s?



For a long time, actively posting member, I am seriously surprised you haven't read about the Monster Vision Max 3D glasses in this section of the forum or the PC tuning app for them. Even in some display and proj owners threads, such as the Sony VW95's one, MV3D settings have been discussed for tuning the delay and duty cycles to optimise them for that projector for example. The built in coarse tuning joystick in the emitter side and finer tuning PC app has also been discussed in that dedicated MV3D thread that's floated around the top of this section since March last year. I just search and located a direct discussion of the PC app in that thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post20597673 


As yet, I have not come across anyone who can say they've done a side by side comparison between MV3D's and X104's. Unfort, I had already bought into 4 pairs of X103s by the time the MV3Ds came out. About the same time, the X104's were announced, then eventually had their release massively delayed. If I had of known that was to happen, I would probably have gotten a set of MV3D's to use in the interim with my previous and current projector as they were def better than the X103's. I'm sure inevitably and hopefully soon, somebody will get to do an accurate comparison between the MV's and X104's. Perhaps one of the HT magazines even.


----------



## bd2003

Hmph...well I'm hearing about them now I guess. I thought the x104s were unique in their tunability.


I'll have to look into it a bit more to see how compatible they are with my set, but if the x104 isn't offering anything unique, I see no reason for me to wait around for me to get their act together. All I want is less crosstalk, and if these let me achieve that with fine tuning, then mission accomplished.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21503002
> 
> 
> I really hope aside from cloning what Monster has already done with their PC app, Xpand bloody launches the much touted smartphone apps at the same time. Why does it not surprise me with the history of Xpands products and support, they are using former Eastern Block country developers...



I really doubt if the smartphone apps are ready. Having visited Slovenia in the past year I have to say that there is very little left of the Eastern Block attitude. They are on the Euro and doing quite well with great roads and a good economy. The developers told me that they did not realize that there would be a large demand for the software. I really pushed the matter and I was told it should be out by the end of the month. Hope they told me the truth.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21510471
> 
> 
> I really doubt if the smartphone apps are ready. Having visited Slovenia in the past year I have to say that there is very little left of the Eastern Block attitude. They are on the Euro and doing quite well with great roads and a good economy. The developers told me that they did not realize that there would be a large demand for the software. I really pushed the matter and I was told it should be out by the end of the month. Hope they told me the truth.



Yeah, well that's another major Xpand letdown once again then if they fail with the smartphone app this far after the initial Nov product launch. I get the MV3D owners beating me up over the piss poor rep Xpand have developed since the start with their promise and failure to deliver the touted firmware upgrade for the X103's. I'm sure Slovenia like much of the old Eastern Block has progressed along way. However, I'm not exactly convinced it's the major software developers hub globally that even India or Ireland or the Ukraine have become. I don't blame them for not realising the demand for it, I doubt Xpand would have bother communicating that to them or emphasizing the amount they'd spruiked the software feature in their original pre-prod PR(let alone shown then the original PR!). Seems Xpand are run pretty poorly. Everything thing I've seen to date reeks of broken promises and vapourware, massive production delays, and overly sparse/disjointed product rollouts.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd2003* /forum/post/21505074
> 
> 
> I'll have to look into it a bit more to see how compatible they are with my set, but if the x104 isn't offering anything unique, I see no reason for me to wait around for me to get their act together. All I want is less crosstalk, and if these let me achieve that with fine tuning, then mission accomplished.



Other than the sync signal compatibility, the other thing to look at is the rise/fall time on the lenses and their leakage. But without the tuning app from Xpand, and without someone who knows what they are doing as far as characterizing the lenses, we won't know that for quite some time yet -- if ever (since no consumer magazines seem to be competent enough to do these sorts of tests.)


There are also a couple pros/cons between having each pair of glasses individually tuned and having a separate emitter that all glasses tune to, and if your set is IR, the RF on the MV3D (post conversion) is likely more resilient than running X104s directly off the IR signal.


----------



## robneal81

Any update on when the configuration app is being released? Xpand has updated their website with more X104 info, but still no app!!!


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21551356
> 
> 
> Any update on when the configuration app is being released? Xpand has updated their website with more X104 info, but still no app!!!



I spoke with Xpand yesterday they now say the middle to end of Feb. I think they want to be sure that the 104's are truly universal and that the RF attachment that they showed at CES is ready for release. This may have pushed things back.


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke with Xpand yesterday they now say the middle to end of Feb. I think they want to be sure that the 104's are truly universal and that the RF attachment that they showed at CES is ready for release. This may have pushed things back.



Oh, that stinks. I have an issue with my glasses not keeping sync with my TV. Most of the time just turning them on won't work...you actually have to re-sync them every time. When I contacted Xpand last month, they guaranteed me that a firmware update, plus the new programming software would fix the issue.


Now I guess I have to wait another month....


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21556029
> 
> 
> Oh, that stinks. I have an issue with my glasses not keeping sync with my TV. Most of the time just turning them on won't work...you actually have to re-sync them every time. When I contacted Xpand last month, they guaranteed me that a firmware update, plus the new programming software would fix the issue.
> 
> 
> Now I guess I have to wait another month....



What projector and or emitter are you using. I have a JVC and have no problem with getting it to re-sync.


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What projector and or emitter are you using. I have a JVC and have no problem with getting it to re-sync.



I have a Panasonic GT25 plasma TV and two pairs of X104's, each with the same problem: In order for them to sync properly, you have to start playing the movie BEFORE turning on the glasses or you'll need to re-sync them.


Also, one of the two almost always needs re-syncing every time, no matter when you turn them on.


Anything you do to break the sync will require a total re-sync, not just a power off/ power on. Some examples: If I leave the glasses on, walk into another room, then walk back, I'll have to re sync. Sometimes if I pause the movie and my Blu ray player's screen saver comes on, I'll also have to re-sync. It's pretty annoying.


This is the third brand of 3D glasses I've tried and they're still bar FAR the best. If I could get rid of the sync program and get them to be permanently set to my TV, they'd be perfect.


----------



## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21556123
> 
> 
> What projector and or emitter are you using. I have a JVC and have no problem with getting it to re-sync.



As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had 2 pairs of the x104's and they both would loose sync after walking out of the room and had to reprogram every time. I'm using a Panasonic 7000 projector Has nothing to do with LED strength. Though accidentally turning them off momentarily during a movie (which can happen a lot with the switch being where it is) it seemed to sync back up right away. Turning them off until the next day required a reprogram again. For that and other reasons I returned them.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21556704
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic GT25 plasma TV and two pairs of X104's, each with the same problem: In order for them to sync properly, you have to start playing the movie BEFORE turning on the glasses or you'll need to re-sync them.
> 
> 
> Also, one of the two almost always needs re-syncing every time, no matter when you turn them on.
> 
> 
> Anything you do to break the sync will require a total re-sync, not just a power off/ power on. Some examples: If I leave the glasses on, walk into another room, then walk back, I'll have to re sync. Sometimes if I pause the movie and my Blu ray player's screen saver comes on, I'll also have to re-sync. It's pretty annoying.
> 
> 
> This is the third brand of 3D glasses I've tried and they're still bar FAR the best. If I could get rid of the sync program and get them to be permanently set to my TV, they'd be perfect.



You might want to consider an IR extender.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...ex%2Caps%2C184 


It seems that your IR signal is not reaching the glasses.


----------



## curtishd

I have a few pairs of the 103's and am looking at the 104's, anyone want to get rid of those 104's send me a PM. (What's the best price out there on the 104's?)


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curtishd* /forum/post/21558070
> 
> 
> I have a few pairs of the 103's and am looking at the 104's, anyone want to get rid of those 104's send me a PM. (What's the best price out there on the 104's?)



Check out Projector People for the 104's they are one of the only dealers at this time. If you push them them will give you 1 free if you buy 3 pairs.


----------



## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21558357
> 
> 
> Check out Projector People for the 104's they are one of the only dealers at this time. If you push them them will give you 1 free if you buy 3 pairs.



Amazon has them for about 5 bucks more. http://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X104LX1-...7713540&sr=8-2


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robut* /forum/post/21559552
> 
> 
> Amazon has them for about 5 bucks more. http://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X104LX1-...7713540&sr=8-2



I would still give Projector People a call. If you buy 3 pairs they usually give one free lowering the price. They also often have good deals on the glasses alone.


----------



## khollister

Finally picked up a 3D BD (G Force) to try on my new Sony HX929 with the 104 glasses - much better than I expected, pretty cool actually.


I got mine from Amazon and they are the Large size. Comfortable enough (I have a very large head) and the tilting problem is far less than I expected from the comments - you have to tilt your head like 45 degrees to lose the 3D.


Be careful on ordering these from Projector People - there are some questions as to color and size, and the responses from PP indicate they are unaware of the size and that the ones they sell are black, which is not the L versions from what I read. Mine are clearly marked LARGE on the packaging and are a very dark blue (almost black).


----------



## Carey P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *khollister* /forum/post/21566565
> 
> 
> Be careful on ordering these from Projector People - there are some questions as to color and size, and the responses from PP indicate they are unaware of the size and that the ones they sell are black, which is not the L versions from what I read. Mine are clearly marked LARGE on the packaging and are a very dark blue (almost black).



The ones I got from PP were black and large, though they still pinched behind the ears.


----------



## rwestley

I tried the white ones at CES and they are the same as the black ones both marked as large. I spoke to the people at Xpand and told them that they are not really that large and they are uncomfortable for some people. These are the only size they are selling so far. They may come out with smaller versions for children. From the picture on Amazon they are the same as the ones from Projector People. In fact when I visited the Xpand booth a person from Projector People was also there.


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21558357
> 
> 
> Check out Projector People for the 104's they are one of the only dealers at this time. If you push them them will give you 1 free if you buy 3 pairs.



I spoke to Projector People and they basically said "no way" for the buy 3 get one free deal.


I can honestly say, working with them has been _amazingly_ frustrating. No one there even knew what colors or sizes were available until late December when I emailed them info I got from a UK dealer. It takes WEEKS to get email responses from them and when they do respond, it's usually bad information. I was told three times already that they're ready to ship me a pair in white and that they'd be calling me shortly, just to be blown off.


I already bought two pairs from them and were hoping to buy two more: One White and one Red. Does anyone know where else I can get them? I'd love to go ANYWHERE but Projector People.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21571310
> 
> 
> I spoke to Projector People and they basically said "no way" for the buy 3 get one free deal.
> 
> 
> I can honestly say, working with them has been _amazingly_ frustrating. No one there even knew what colors or sizes were available until late December when I emailed them info I got from a UK dealer. It takes WEEKS to get email responses from them and when they do respond, it's usually bad information. I was told three times already that they're ready to ship me a pair in white and that they'd be calling me shortly, just to be blown off.
> 
> 
> I already bought two pairs from them and were hoping to buy two more: One White and one Red. Does anyone know where else I can get them? I'd love to go ANYWHERE but Projector People.



I am surprised that they would not offer the deal since I even mentioned it to the person at CES. They had them on sale for Black Friday at 75 each. I guess it depends on the sales person. My sales person was Rich Morgan. I would suggest that you call and ask for him and tell him that you heard about the deal on AVS you can even mention my name


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21571428
> 
> 
> I am surprised that they would not offer the deal since I even mentioned it to the person at CES. They had them on sale for Black Friday at 75 each. I guess it depends on the sales person. My sales person was Rich Morgan. I would suggest that you call and ask for him and tell him that you heard about the deal on AVS you can even mention my name



I appreciate the advice. I feel a bit bad going behind my current rep's back, but seriously, it takes weeks for her to respond to emails. _Weeks._


Do you know if the red and white are available anywhere now? My Projector People rep said she didn't think they'd be in stock until late February, but some friends in the UK claim dealers over there have them in stock now.


----------



## R10KYJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the advice. I feel a bit bad going behind my current rep's back, but seriously, it takes weeks for her to respond to emails. Weeks.
> 
> 
> Do you know if the red and white are available anywhere now? My Projector People rep said she didn't think they'd be in stock until late February, but some friends in the UK claim dealers over there have them in stock now.



The large and medium whites, and small red have been in stock and shipping within the UK since December


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21572267
> 
> 
> I appreciate the advice. I feel a bit bad going behind my current rep's back, but seriously, it takes weeks for her to respond to emails. _Weeks._
> 
> 
> Do you know if the red and white are available anywhere now? My Projector People rep said she didn't think they'd be in stock until late February, but some friends in the UK claim dealers over there have them in stock now.



Prob best to check UK dealers. The one I dealt with had the standard black frame ones way back in mid Nov. So it wouldn't surprise me if they had the other colours in stock by now. For some reason xpand seems to have favored the UK market since the start..


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21572267
> 
> 
> I appreciate the advice. I feel a bit bad going behind my current rep's back, but seriously, it takes weeks for her to respond to emails. _Weeks._
> 
> 
> Do you know if the red and white are available anywhere now? My Projector People rep said she didn't think they'd be in stock until late February, but some friends in the UK claim dealers over there have them in stock now.



I would ask for the rep I suggested. There is no excuse for not responding to emails. I saw the red and white glasses at CES they are just like the blue/black ones. I don't think anyone has them yet in the US. I was told late Feb or March. I think they are waiting to include them in a kit with the RF adapter.


----------



## audionewer

does x104 3d glasses work with HD33? if so, which frequency work? RF or IR?


----------



## curtishd

Just bought a pair from amazon.


----------



## OzHDHT

It's prob relevant to mark time in this thread and note as at mid feb, the tuning apps for the X-104's are still vaporware. Once again thanks Xpand for exceeding our expectations...not.


----------



## bula93

The PC Firmware program is up on the xpand site! I just updated the firmware on my glasses and am going to start playing with the shutter delays to see if I can improve the 3D quality of my JVC 45.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bula93* /forum/post/21641652
> 
> 
> The PC Firmware program is up on the xpand site! I just updated the firmware on my glasses and am going to start playing with the shutter delays to see if I can improve the 3D quality of my JVC 45.



PC Firmware program, you mean the PC tuning app? Strictly speaking firmware is a basic software upgrade for a piece of hardware.


I'll go have a look. Be pleased if the PC app is up.


EDIT:

Ok verified on the Xpand website. Yes, this is the PC Tuning Application. Finally eh. I look forward to trying it out. Next lets see when the promised smartphone apps finally arrive. Glad the PC version is out in the meantime.


----------



## robneal81

Could you post a direct link? I couldn't find it on the site.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21641829
> 
> 
> Could you post a direct link? I couldn't find it on the site.



Really? It took me 30 secs to see the picture link on the website right on the X104 main page.


here: http://www.xpand.me/products/younive...c-application/


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21641926
> 
> 
> Really? It took me 30 secs to see the picture link on the website right on the X104 main page.
> 
> 
> here: http://www.xpand.me/products/younive...c-application/



LOL, I didn't scroll down to find the link. Thanks for posting it!


----------



## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21641674
> 
> 
> PC Firmware program, you mean the PC tuning app? Strictly speaking firmware is a basic software upgrade for a piece of hardware.
> 
> 
> I'll go have a look. Be pleased if the PC app is up.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Ok verified on the Xpand website. Yes, this is the PC Tuning Application. Finally eh. I look forward to trying it out. Next lets see when the promised smartphone apps finally arrive. Glad the PC version is out in the meantime.



Could you or anyone please report on any success on reducing crosstalk using the tuning application.


----------



## rwestley

Finally!!! I will update and test this when I get home this evening.


----------



## bula93

I played with the shutter open and close delay for just a few minutes last night and couldn't create a noticable difference. (I was just trying to move the adjustment sliders in the pc tuning program one "box" width in different combinations). This is with the JVC RS45 projector. It seems like my specific projector's problem is that the left eye is allowing crosstalk but not the right, very weird. I'll play with it some more today and post my results.


----------



## OzHDHT

I actually forgot all about it last night after all that. I'm more focused at the moment on my new projector arriving.


EDIT: I downloaded the software tonight. I know now where the firmware statement comes from. The program is also a firmware checker according to the user guide. However, I am debating installing it as there is a complete BS mandatory product registration soon as you run the app! Plus, the singular adjustment is delay, not delay and duty cycle. Honestly, what a joke! So I have to hand over my details and transcribe the 10 plus digit serial(its case sensitive I noticed too-great!) of poss all 3 pairs of glasses. I say how bout forgot it and I just get the MV3D's if I want the tuneability and performance! I can't believe Xpand yet again manage to piss off their customers even simply trying use their late to arrive PC only app! Unbelievable.


----------



## rwestley

You only have to enter the SN once for all your glasses.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21648601
> 
> 
> You only have to enter the SN once for all your glasses.



That's a bonus. I use a tiny logitech mini HTPC keyboard and when I tried, I failed thanks most likely to the very helpful and unnecessary upper and lower case letter number combo serial #. To be honest I figured like most software that it's a given that once 'a' serial # is entered the software is unlocked. However, I still find it ludicrous that a piece of software designed solely to interface with only one specific model of hardware, has a mandatory product serial registration to unlock it. What, is someone going to 'hack' the app to work with other glasses! Hardly, especially considering that other glasses which have a PC tuning app, have both a delay and a duty cycle adjustment in their app already.


----------



## zcetrt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21646084
> 
> 
> I actually forgot all about it last night after all that. I'm more focused at the moment on my new projector arriving.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I downloaded the software tonight. I know now where the firmware statement comes from. The program is also a firmware checker according to the user guide. However, I am debating installing it as there is a complete BS mandatory product registration soon as you run the app! Plus, the singular adjustment is delay, not delay and duty cycle. Honestly, what a joke! So I have to hand over my details and transcribe the 10 plus digit serial(its case sensitive I noticed too-great!) of poss all 3 pairs of glasses. I say how bout forgot it and I just get the MV3D's if I want the tuneability and performance! I can't believe Xpand yet again manage to piss off their customers even simply trying use their late to arrive PC only app! Unbelievable.



To shorten the duty cycle move the Open delay slider to the right and the Close delay slider to the left. To shorten the duty cycle, do the opposite. However, you need to update the glasses firmware to the newest version before changing the timings.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zcetrt* /forum/post/21652711
> 
> 
> To shorten the duty cycle move the Open delay slider to the right and the Close delay slider to the left. To shorten the duty cycle, do the opposite. However, you need to update the glasses firmware to the newest version before changing the timings.



Why would delay and duty cycle be interactive with each other when Monster's glasses have specific adjustments for each defined as the following(I just had a look at the bit cauldron software myself to see how it functioned):


Delay = time between sync signal & when lens opens. Measured in usecs

Duty cycle = how long lens stays open each time. Measured in percentage 10-120%


At the moment, having just swapped projectors to the Sony VW1000, fiddling with the delays on the X104s is quite meaningless to me by comparison to tweaking the projector itself. Straight up performance having viewed a 3D BR on it last night presented zero issues as this projector is considered 'ghosting free' and cinema quality bright out of the box. With the X104s stock standard I found that to be the case, no issues with their performance.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21656553
> 
> 
> Why would delay and duty cycle be interactive with each other when Monster's glasses have specific adjustments for each defined as the following



It's just two ways of skinning the same cat.


Monster's way is cognitively easier to explain, and easier to set the phase (delay). XPand's way would be advantageous if you ever needed to keep the falling edge in one place while you alter the duty cycle using the rising edge, which I could see possibly needing to do in some situations.


----------



## zkidz

Now that I actually have my hands on one of these pairs, I have to say tuning them is a total pain compared to the MV3D. Not because of the different style of settings, but because you cannot run the glasses while tuning them. In fact, the settings won't take effect until you unplug the glasses from the PC. Also, the UI doesn't give a numeric readout, so you have to eyeball how far the slider is over.


Anyone else notice problems with sync loss if you add 80 clicks worth of delay to the open delay slider? At 40, it syncs fine, then at 80, sync is impossible, then sometime further up the scale, you can get sync back again. That could be a software-fixable problem, or it might be hardware signal bleed from the lens circuit into the detector circuit.


Off to the XPAND support forums go I, I guess.


Once I've got a handle on the X104s I'll do a side-by-side comparison between them and the MV3Ds on ghosting with my somewhat ... eheh... challenging LN46C750 set and post the results.


----------



## robneal81

I'm sorry for the stupid question, but how should I start tuning the glasses to try and reduce ghosting? I watched Hugo last night and half the movie looked amazing, while the other half was pretty much a double image (not literally the 1st and 2nd half, I just mean in general). I have a professionally calibrated Panasonic GT25 plasma TV and although it's not perfect, I shouldn't see that much ghosting. Should I literally just start changing the settings around while watching the movie to see what happens?


Also, does anyone know when the different color glasses will be available in the US? I was told Jan, then Feb, then "early March", but it all seems to be ********.


----------



## zkidz

Well, I'd answer your question, but as far as the X104s go, I'm still uncertain as to *exactly* what the sliders really do. After I have a sit down to take some comparative measurements, I'll be posting some sort of comparison of the MV3D vs X104 / tuning guide (for us non-DLP users who actually have to deal with a lot more on the ghosting front than the DLP folks.)


In the meantime, see if you can figure out how to display a still frame PNG, JPEG, or GIF and get the set into side-by-side or top-bottom 3D mode. You'll be needing to do that for calibration images. (On my set at least, they disable the ability to manually enter 3D mode when displaying non MPOs from the flash drive. feh.)


----------



## zkidz

If you read the release notes from the latest (at least as of a night or two ago) firmware image, it says something about support for "Dual View". Anyone in the know here? Is that just support for the Sony SimulView monitor's IR protocol, or support for L-only, R-only modes? If the latter, how do we activate them?


Or is it some unfortunately named, totally unrelated feature/brand?


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21725644
> 
> 
> If you read the release notes from the latest (at least as of a night or two ago) firmware image, it says something about support for "Dual View". Anyone in the know here? Is that just support for the Sony SimulView monitor's IR protocol, or support for L-only, R-only modes? If the latter, how do we activate them?
> 
> 
> Or is it some unfortunately named, totally unrelated feature/brand?



Good question for XpanD. All I found on their site is that they were considering it. Call or email them and report back, please.


----------



## OzHDHT

I've finally given in and last week ordered a pair of MV3Ds to do the comparison myself. My new proj is too good to not know if I'm getting the most out of the glasses I'm using without trying the MV's against the X104s. I hope to have them if the local online supplier is not bsing about having stock in the country, since they seem to be the only supplier here. I won't be impressed if they stuff me around as I could easy have obtained the starter pack from the US quite quickly.


----------



## zkidz

So far I've been able to get the MV3Ds to ghost less than the X104s, but that may just be because tuning the X104s is so tricky. On the other hand, the X104s seem to have less ghosting around the edges where the angle between the eye and the glasses is larger, and I haven't measured it in any empirical fashion, but they seem to be brighter when both are tuned to an equivalent ghosting reduction level.


But this is with LCD. I should be able to compare the two soon on a friends old checkerboard DLP set; he finally got the adaptor kit.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21746522
> 
> 
> So far I've been able to get the MV3Ds to ghost less than the X104s, but that may just be because tuning the X104s is so tricky. On the other hand, the X104s seem to have less ghosting around the edges where the angle between the eye and the glasses is larger, and I haven't measured it in any empirical fashion, but they seem to be brighter when both are tuned to an equivalent ghosting reduction level.
> 
> 
> But this is with LCD. I should be able to compare the two soon on a friends old checkerboard DLP set; he finally got the adaptor kit.



Can your tuning changes be reset to the factory default?


----------



## zkidz

The X104s make this easy, the MV3D I believe there is a way, but I have not bothered. The factory default on the X104s is as ghosty as the untunable universal glasses I have, completely unusable.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21746522
> 
> 
> So far I've been able to get the MV3Ds to ghost less than the X104s, but that may just be because tuning the X104s is so tricky. On the other hand, the X104s seem to have less ghosting around the edges where the angle between the eye and the glasses is larger, and I haven't measured it in any empirical fashion, but they seem to be brighter when both are tuned to an equivalent ghosting reduction level.
> 
> .



I guess if your particular display ghosts, it's more the displays fault to begin with. However, you can most likely tune the glasses to try help a bit via the delays/duty cycle. Some glasses can exacerbate existing ghosting, which I found to be the case with the X103s vs the factory Sony's when viewed with a first gen Sony VW90 3D. However, these days the current state of the art in projection no longer presents ghosting as a factor, even in PS3 3D gaming. My keenness to obtain MV3Ds is to once and for all test for lens tint differences between the 2 brands and which then results in a poss a brighter and more accurate colour reproduction in the resulting image.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21748772
> 
> 
> I guess if your particular display ghosts, it's more the displays fault to begin with.



This is true. However, a lot of displays considered to be bad ghosters could be at least watchable with the current tunable glasses options. In many cases even the vendor supplied glasses kit is inferior. In my case, if I could just get the stupid anti-ghosting filter turned off, ghosting would be at pretty tolerable levels.



> Quote:
> However, these days the current state of the art in projection no longer presents ghosting as a factor, even in PS3 3D gaming.



I'm a bit of a conservationist when it comes to buying new kit, for reasons of my own personal ethics. I was on a CRT until it finally blew up two years ago, so I'll be sticking it out with this kit until it also breaks, probably. Maybe I could persuade myself in a few years time.



> Quote:
> My keenness to obtain MV3Ds is to once and for all test for lens tint differences between the 2 brands and which then results in a poss a brighter and more accurate colour reproduction in the resulting image.



These images I took when trying to figure out WTF is up with the anti-ghosting filter and its bizarre tuning settings might help, though of course, my efforts to prevent the cell phone camera from doing its own jiggering may not have been as thorough as possible.


Note the spectral shift on the center set of vertical bars on the results images is set-induced, and the last column of the MV3D test image was suffering from back reflections.


([del]See the embedded image comments.[/del] Photobucket apparently now munges your image files, so I'll paste the embedded comments in the comments section there shortly)

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...s7682/3dtests/


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21748980
> 
> 
> This is true. However, a lot of displays considered to be bad ghosters could be at least watchable with the current tunable glasses options. In many cases even the vendor supplied glasses kit is inferior. In my case, if I could just get the stupid anti-ghosting filter turned off, ghosting would be at pretty tolerable levels.



Yes that is what exactly what I was getting at. Main main point though was as you agree, the display tech itself is most to blame. It wasn't until the current era tuneable glasses, since the bit cauldron/MV3D/Optomas and now the X104s finally, that much could be done to try to compensate for what the display inherently was doing wrong. For me had I still been using the quite ghosting prone VW90 proj, I may, but will never know or really care(due to its impossibly dim first gen 3D tech), tune for better performance. I do own 2 HX series Sony panels as well. However, given the sheer lack any compelling reason to watch 3D away from my current proj, I haven't even tried using the X104s with my flat panels to examine and compare the diff between say them and the current gen Sony glasses with ghosting issues.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21748633
> 
> 
> The X104s make this easy, the MV3D I believe there is a way, but I have not bothered. The factory default on the X104s is as ghosty as the untunable universal glasses I have, completely unusable.



The reason I asked is because DLP is known NOT to ghost, so it'd be a shame if you had the settings tuned for your ghosting set, and this caused ghosting or other artifacts on your friend's DLP.


----------



## robneal81

I tried messing with the settings and couldn't get the ghosting to stop. There's one scene at the end of Hugo that ghosts pretty badly and I as using it to test.


There was no method to my testing, other than to move the bars one way or the other a bunch of times and try to find a better setting. Nothing helped. I guess that means it could be my TV.


Any suggestions?


----------



## zkidz

Really it helps to have a still frame image. Tuning these glasses is very hard, what with not being able to see what you are doing in realtime, and having to fiddle with USB connectors between settings.


One thing to avoid is moving the open delay slider too far right and the close delay slider too far left at the same time. The glasses will allow you to move the open time after the close time, which flips the duty cycle and makes things even more confusing.


I haven't had the patience for it, but if I were to try to do it systematically I would start at default settings, move the close delay slider to the left until the image was visibly dimmer, then back it off a bit, then try moving the open delay both ways.


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21752233
> 
> 
> Really it helps to have a still frame image. Tuning these glasses is very hard, what with not being able to see what you are doing in realtime, and having to fiddle with USB connectors between settings.
> 
> 
> One thing to avoid is moving the open delay slider too far right and the close delay slider too far left at the same time. The glasses will allow you to move the open time after the close time, which flips the duty cycle and makes things even more confusing.
> 
> 
> I haven't had the patience for it, but if I were to try to do it systematically I would start at default settings, move the close delay slider to the left until the image was visibly dimmer, then back it off a bit, then try moving the open delay both ways.



Thanks for the advice. I actually tried that method of tuning with Hugo paused at a particularly bad ghosting point. I made the image darker and brighter...and really bad once the settings were way off, but the ghosting never changed.


Do you know where to get a still frame calibration image for 3D? I can try that.


----------



## zkidz

Depends on what your equipment can do. If you can force side-by-side mode while viewing any old image, or whether you need an .MPO, or whether the only thing you can do is motion and you need a video of a still image.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21752920
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I actually tried that method of tuning with Hugo paused at a particularly bad ghosting point. I made the image darker and brighter...and really bad once the settings were way off, but the ghosting never changed.
> 
> 
> Do you know where to get a still frame calibration image for 3D? I can try that.



To me in only doing the firmware updates, this slider style adjustment as has been noted looks very clunky and also non-replicable for those who have multiple pairs.


Why not try a 3D bluray that has a static menu shot with decent 3D pic. I can't think of a particular one off the top of my head but I know I've noticed ones that are static.


I'm looking forward to Hugo, only for the 3D as I've heard the movie itself is kind of boring. Might give it a shot on the wkend.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/21749657
> 
> 
> The reason I asked is because DLP is known NOT to ghost, so it'd be a shame if you had the settings tuned for your ghosting set, and this caused ghosting or other artifacts on your friend's DLP.



Of course, I retuned.


So here's what I have to say about X104 (Medium size) vs MV3D on a DLP set:


Both pair of glasses have a wider degree of freedom when it comes to supine/prone head posture then the SSGs my friend had gotten with his kit -- those give you very little leeway: if you tilt your head back or forth at all, ghosting creeps in from the bottom/top of the screen.


The MV3D are biased more towards a prone head position, and the X104s are more biased towards a supine head position. This of course can depend entirely on how high your ears are on your head, but it makes the MV3Ds easier to fix, since you can just move the earpieces up to change the lens angle.


Laterally, the X104's sweet spot seems to be slightly too far away from the nose, and some slight artifacts may occur on the side of the screen closest to the nose on each eye.


Eventually I suppose they will figure out how to mass produce curved shutter lenses and such problem will be mitigated further.


The X104s are slightly brighter, but only by a hair, and the MV3Ds have slightly truer color. Tuning could possibly mitigate this on the X104s, as I only tested the default duty cycle, which might be clipping color planes.


However, based on my prior tests with my LCD I have some doubts about the XPAND's "fastest lens on the market" claim, as per my experiment with intentionally mis-tuning the glasses to catch the LCD progressive redraw:











Overall, for DLP users I think the MV3D are the technically better kit, but not by so much of a margin that it totally outweighs other factors (some of which are matters of taste/tolerance, like the noise of the MV3D driver circuit and the lack of light-guards on the sides of the X104s for example.) Either set is a significant improvement over the SSG glasses, generic universal, and X102 DLPLink sets we tried.


For LCD users looking for ghosting relief, however, at least until the X104s are easier to tune, there is a much stronger case for recommending the MV3Ds over the X104s. However, if I had to put money on which set is more likely to implement SimulView support, I'd have to bet on the X104s at this point, given the software for those is being actively developed, and the noise from the MV3D driver circuit makes me wonder if they can take the extra current spike needed to drive both lenses at the same time.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21764577
> 
> 
> Of course, I retuned.
> 
> 
> So here's what I have to say about X104 (Medium size) vs MV3D on a DLP set:
> 
> 
> Both pair of glasses have a wider degree of freedom when it comes to supine/prone head posture then the SSGs my friend had with his kit -- those give you very little leeway: if you tilt your head back or forth at all, ghosting creeps in from the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> The MV3D are biased more towards a prone head position, and the X104s are more biased towards a supine head position. This of course can depend entirely on how high your ears are on your head, but it makes the MV3Ds easier to fix, since you can just move the earpieces up to change the lens angle.
> 
> 
> Laterally, the X104's sweet spot seems to be slightly too far away from the nose, and some slight artifacts may occur on the side of the screen closest to the nose on each eye.
> 
> 
> Eventually I suppose they will figure out how to mass produce curved shutter lenses and such problem will be mitigated further.
> 
> 
> The X104s are slightly brighter, but only by a hair, and the MV3Ds have slightly truer color. Tuning could possibly mitigate this on the X104s, as I only tested the default duty cycle, which might be clipping color planes.
> 
> 
> However, based on my prior tests with my LCD I have some doubts about the XPAND's "fastest lens on the market claim." as per my experiment with intentionally mis-tuning the glasses to catch the LCD progressive redraw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, for DLP users I think the MV3D are the technically better kit, but not by so much of a margin that it totally outweighs other factors (some of which are matters of taste/tolerance, like the noise of the MV3D driver circuit and the lack of light-guards on the sides of the X104s for example.) Either set is a significant improvement over the SSD glasses, generic universal, and X102 DLPLink sets we tried.
> 
> 
> For LCD users looking for ghosting relief, however, at least until the X104s are easier to tune, there is a much stronger case for recommending the MV3Ds over the X104s. However, if I had to put money on which set is more likely to implement SimulView support, I'd have to bet on the X104s at this point, given the software for those is being actively developed, and the noise from the MV3D driver circuit makes me wonder if they can take the extra current spike needed to drive both lenses at the same time.



OMG, I just got some MV3D's this morning and was going to post about doing a comparison. I totally missed your post somehow. I had been delayed by 2 weeks due to trusting a local supplier, so I went through Amazon in the end and had them in 4 days.


Great review!


I'll be able to test mine with the Sony VW1000 projector. As this unit simply does not exhibit ghosting, I will not be able to compare that aspect- not that that aspect is something I miss nowadays! I do have 2 Sony LCD TVs I could view, but I'm not going to focus on that aspect. Seems Zkidz has covered that enough anyway from his comments re LCD.


In my testing I'll def be looking for colour diffs. Interesting re brightness diffs reported and I'll compare that too. Fortunately, with this particular projector, it's pretty much considered to be cinema quality in that area. So hopefully any loss there is negligible. Feedback from other owners about the MV3D's has been positive in that area though already.


Oh well, fun to be had tonight. I love doing these kinds of comparison tests.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> I do have 2 Sony LCD TVs I could view



I'd be interested to know whether you can see any evidence of an anti-ghost filter running on the Sony LCDs. Assuming you can force side-by-side mode while viewing an image, this test image would only produce dark rectangles (when you tune for minimum ghosting) if there is an anti-ghost filter (or remotely possible, some tricky LCD driver stuff going on.)

http://www.abrij.org/~bri/3D/antighost.png 


If there is an anti-ghost filter running it might look something like this through the right eye.











If not, or if the glasses are very ghosty, you'll only see brighter rectangles.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21828766
> 
> 
> I'd be interested to know whether you can see any evidence of an anti-ghost filter running on the Sony LCDs. Assuming you can force side-by-side mode while viewing an image, this test image would only produce dark rectangles (when you tune for minimum ghosting) if there is an anti-ghost filter (or remotely possible, some tricky LCD driver stuff going on.)
> 
> http://www.abrij.org/~bri/3D/antighost.png
> 
> 
> If there is an anti-ghost filter running it might look something like this through the right eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not, or if the glasses are very ghosty, you'll only see brighter rectangles.



Zkidz, I would love to do that test for you but I really don't have the time at the moment to do it with either of the HX800 series LCD I have. I also just plain never run them in 3D as I find it totally pointless when I have the projector and they are just too small (even with the 55") and flawed an image by comparison to worry about using in any real capacity for 3D. I barely got time last night to do a run through testing my projector with the MV3D, as I had a bigger system upgrade of my Integra DHC-80.2 to an 80.3, then finding I still can't pass through 4K from my HTPC to the VW1000 4K projector even though the Integra is meant to be 4K compliant and even has a 4K scaler chipset built in. So you can see I have a fair bit on my plate HT-wise currently.


As for my finding with the VW1000 MV3D vs X104 test. I have to say MV3D is the winner. The key factor in it was as mentioned by zkidz in his testing, colour accuracy. The X104's def tend to warm into a yellow tint. Not as far as factory Sony tdg-pj1's though and are lighter. As for trying to discern brightness differences, I found it extremely difficult. At times it could appear that the warm tint of the X104s gave a misleading sense of them being fractionally brighter. However, after many A/B tests, I would actually say the Monsters were actually if anything fractionally brighter. As for image rendition with the VW1000, both glasses performed flawlessly with the 1000, there was just nothing of note to pick on when viewing the 110" projected image.


So overall, I will def being buying more MV3D/Optomas and moving the X104s down the chain.


----------



## robneal81

Are these the "MV3D" glasses everyone is talking about?:

http://www.amazon.com/MonsterVision-...2851266&sr=8-1 


They look identical to these Optoma. Is there any difference between them??:

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-Technol...2851266&sr=8-2 


I have two pairs of X104's and they're by far the best I've ever tried (I never tried the MV3D). I've waited over three months to buy two more pairs (I need 4 total), but both Xpand and Projector People can't get them in white or red in the U.S. I'm tired of waiting and just want more pairs of glasses. Should I just get the MV3D?


----------



## rwestley

Yes these are the ones and I like them even more than the Xpand 104's they are much more comfortable. They are a no brainer at the price they are on sale for today. Just be sure to update the firmware immediately. I even ordered two more pairs for myself. They are identical to the Optoma's and the VIP's since they are made by Bit Caldron.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21833192
> 
> 
> Are these the "MV3D" glasses everyone is talking about?:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/MonsterVision-...2851266&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> They look identical to these Optoma. Is there any difference between them??:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-Technol...2851266&sr=8-2
> 
> 
> I have two pairs of X104's and they're by far the best I've ever tried (I never tried the MV3D). I've waited over three months to buy two more pairs (I need 4 total), but both Xpand and Projector People can't get them in white or red in the U.S. I'm tired of waiting and just want more pairs of glasses. Should I just get the MV3D?


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21835536
> 
> 
> They are identical to the Optoma's and the VIP's since they are made by Bit Caldron.



So does it matter which ones to get?


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21835612
> 
> 
> So does it matter which ones to get?



No, but I suggest the Monsters because they come with an emitter and rf dongle for the same price as the others alone. Just update the firmware when you get time. I have both and they are the same. They are a good buy compared with the JVC which cost more than twice as much and you still need to purchase an emitter. I have tried the JVC's and I like the Monster's (Optoma Bid Caldron) much better.


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21837984
> 
> 
> No, but I suggest the Monsters because they come with an emitter and rf dongle for the same price as the others alone. Just update the firmware when you get time. I have both and they are the same. They are a good buy compared with the JVC which cost more than twice as much and you still need to purchase an emitter. I have tried the JVC's and I like the Monster's (Optoma Bid Caldron) much better.



Thank's very much for your help. I just ordered it from Amazon and will post my comparison to the Xpand's when they arrive.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21838184
> 
> 
> Thank's very much for your help. I just ordered it from Amazon and will post my comparison to the Xpand's when they arrive.



I would love to hear what others think. Be sure to update the firmware as soon as you get the glasses. I would suggest the VIP firmware since it is even a later version than the Monster posted version. It is on the Curt Palme website.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...db24726fc0662c


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21835612
> 
> 
> So does it matter which ones to get?



If you have a VesaStereo 3D emitter output (3=pin mini-DIN) on your TV, no. If you have only an IR emitter built into the TV, you have to get the Monster branded set, but you can buy any brand extra glasses to go with the starter set.


(If you have only an RF transceiver built-in, these glasses will not work for your set.)


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21839172
> 
> 
> I would love to hear what others think. Be sure to update the firmware as soon as you get the glasses. I would suggest the VIP firmware since it is even a later version than the Monster posted version. It is on the Curt Palme website.
> 
> http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...db24726fc0662c



The MV3D glasses arrived and I updated the firmware with the latest one on Monster's website. I watched Monsters vs. Aliens 3D (I know, not the greatest 3D movie, but I hadn't seen it in 3D yet) with my girlfriend and we kept swapping glasses every 20 minutes or so.


My girlfriend said she barely noticed any difference at all and had no preference on either.


I noticed differences, but agree that they are very similar...and both are LIGHT YEARS better then the other brands we've tried in the past. Here's what I noticed:


- The MV3D glasses seemed a tiny bit more comfortable than the X104's. Not night and day different, but you notice them slightly less than the X104's (I don't normally wear glasses, so wearing 3D glasses is always a pain).


- The MV3D glasses hummed loudly. It was coming from the circuit board that's under the power button. During loud scenes, you can't hear it, but it's REALLY annoying in quiet scenes. The X104's are completely silent.


- The MV3D's seemed brighter than the X104's. It was barely perceptible and is subjective, but they did seem a bit brighter.


- Crosstalk was a bit more noticeable (and there's a TON of it in Monsters vs. Aliens) in the MV3D than it was in the X104's. This could simply be a result of them being brighter and making it more noticeable.


- I think a main source of crosstalk is my TV and not the glasses. I have a Panasonic GT25 plasma, which is a 1st gen 3DTV. I had an opportunity to speak to some Panasonic tech's earlier this week at a conference in NYC and they told me something I found extremely interesting: Their 1st and 2nd gen 3DTV's write pixels by starting with them fully lit and then dimming them to the proper setting (this happens hundreds of times per second). Their new 3rd gen 3DTV's start with the pixels off and raise them to the necessary setting. The tech thinks this method will reduce 90% of crosstalk...but of course that means I'm screwed, because I'm not getting a new TV until OLED comes down in price.


So, are the MV3D's expected to make a loud humming? Maybe mine are just defective. If so, I'll gladly exchange them another pair and be happy. If that humming is "normal", I'll have to return them...it's just too annoying.


Any thoughts, questions or comments?


----------



## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21847160
> 
> 
> The MV3D glasses arrived and I updated the firmware with the latest one on Monster's website. I watched Monsters vs. Aliens 3D (I know, not the greatest 3D movie, but I hadn't seen it in 3D yet) with my girlfriend and we kept swapping glasses every 20 minutes or so.
> 
> 
> My girlfriend said she barely noticed any difference at all and had no preference on either.
> 
> 
> I noticed differences, but agree that they are very similar...and both are LIGHT YEARS better then the other brands we've tried in the past. Here's what I noticed:
> 
> 
> - The MV3D glasses seemed a tiny bit more comfortable than the X104's. Not night and day different, but you notice them slightly less than the X104's (I don't normally wear glasses, so wearing 3D glasses is always a pain).
> 
> 
> - The MV3D glasses hummed loudly. It was coming from the circuit board that's under the power button. During loud scenes, you can't hear it, but it's REALLY annoying in quiet scenes. The X104's are completely silent.
> 
> 
> - The MV3D's seemed brighter than the X104's. It was barely perceptible and is subjective, but they did seem a bit brighter.
> 
> 
> - Crosstalk was a bit more noticeable (and there's a TON of it in Monsters vs. Aliens) in the MV3D than it was in the X104's. This could simply be a result of them being brighter and making it more noticeable.
> 
> 
> - I think a main source of crosstalk is my TV and not the glasses. I have a Panasonic GT25 plasma, which is a 1st gen 3DTV. I had an opportunity to speak to some Panasonic tech's earlier this week at a conference in NYC and they told me something I found extremely interesting: Their 1st and 2nd gen 3DTV's write pixels by starting with them fully lit and then dimming them to the proper setting (this happens hundreds of times per second). Their new 3rd gen 3DTV's start with the pixels off and raise them to the necessary setting. The tech thinks this method will reduce 90% of crosstalk...but of course that means I'm screwed, because I'm not getting a new TV until OLED comes down in price.
> 
> 
> So, are the MV3D's expected to make a loud humming? Maybe mine are just defective. If so, I'll gladly exchange them another pair and be happy. If that humming is "normal", I'll have to return them...it's just too annoying.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts, questions or comments?



I have two pairs of Monster glasses. There is no humming in either pair.


The transmitter I use in my living room with my Samsung defaults to a setting that is way to bright. The crosstalk was very evident. I reduced the duty to 60 and reduced the delay from 11750 to 9750. these settings reduced crosstalk almost completely on a 2010 lcd display.


In the bedroom I have the Playstation 3d display. The Monster default settings seemed to work best.


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robut* /forum/post/21847675
> 
> 
> I have two pairs of Monster glasses. There is no humming in either pair.
> 
> 
> The transmitter I use in my living room with my Samsung defaults to a setting that is way to bright. The crosstalk was very evident. I reduced the duty to 60 and reduced the delay from 11750 to 9750. these settings reduced crosstalk almost completely on a 2010 lcd display.
> 
> 
> In the bedroom I have the Playstation 3d display. The Monster default settings seemed to work best.



I have several pairs to the MV glasses with no humming sound. As far as I know you are the first to mention this issue. They could be defective.


----------



## robneal81

Thanks for your replies!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robut* /forum/post/21847675
> 
> 
> The transmitter I use in my living room with my Samsung defaults to a setting that is way to bright. The crosstalk was very evident. I reduced the duty to 60 and reduced the delay from 11750 to 9750. these settings reduced crosstalk almost completely on a 2010 lcd display.



I'll try your recommended delay settings. Thanks for letting me know.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/21847972
> 
> 
> I have several pairs to the MV glasses with no humming sound. As far as I know you are the first to mention this issue. They could be defective.



I'll contact the place I bought it from and see if I can get them exchanged. I'll let you know if the new ones hum.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for your replies!
> 
> 
> I'll try your recommended delay settings. Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> 
> I'll contact the place I bought it from and see if I can get them exchanged. I'll let you know if the new ones hum.



I can add, as a new owner of the monsters, mine don't hum. I'd have noticed this when comparing with X104s.


I am def going to try that new firmware from the curt palme site link. Interested to know what changes they made.


I also ordered some more MVs, 3 pairs.


EDIT: I don't think I'm that excited about the VIP3D firmware update. Seems its job is to make changing the polarity easier. I have no need for that function with my setup.

Rob, also worth adding as per my review, any crosstalk issue you come across when using either glasses is def display related. On a large reference image as per my Sony proj, there is no technical performance difference with image quality between the two brands. A lot of people speculate as to whether they can tune the crosstalk down via the glasses, however its def a harder prospect than correcting the issue at the display level itself. Therefore, the main diff that give the MV3Ds the edge is the colour neutrality, due to the yellowish tint still found in the Xpands. As you mentioned brightness very diff to perceive, even to the point some may be mislead by the 'warmer' yellowish tint making them think the X104's appear slightly brighter. However, in reality, in the smallest degree, the MV3Ds are ever so slightly brighter.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21847160
> 
> 
> So, are the MV3D's expected to make a loud humming? Maybe mine are just defective. If so, I'll gladly exchange them another pair and be happy. If that humming is "normal", I'll have to return them...it's just too annoying.



My MV3Ds hum and many people have mentioned this about them. Apparently there are pairs out there that don't, though.


----------



## zkidz

XPAND finally got around to answering. There's both a manual override and some sort of auto-detect for the Sony IR protocol as well.

http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-eyewear/157/ 


...so now there's a compelling reason to prefer the X104s for PS3 gamers, who do couch coop, unless the BitCauldron folks respond with a firmware update.


(I love it when the answer is "yes." So refreshing.)


(edit to add: yes, I tried it, and it works, minus the EDID hack needed. The glasses turn off and resync every tie you switch modes so a little patience is required.)


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> XPAND finally got around to answering. There's both a manual override and some sort of auto-detect for the Sony IR protocol as well.
> 
> http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/pr...d-eyewear/157/
> 
> 
> ...so now there's a compelling reason to prefer the X104s for PS3 gamers, who do couch coop, unless the BitCauldron folks respond with a firmware update.
> 
> 
> (I love it when the answer is "yes." So refreshing.)
> 
> 
> (edit to add: yes, I tried it, and it works, minus the EDID hack needed. The glasses turn off and resync every tie you switch modes so a little patience is required.)



Sorry what does this do with ps3 3D games? I'm not exactly following. Is it something to do with dual screen games or something? It doesn't look like it has any impact on the single player games I play in 3D with either brand of glasses with no issues. I was just enjoying another couple of levels of drakes deception 3D this afternoon with the MV3Ds. .


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/21850489
> 
> 
> Sorry what does this do with ps3 3D games? I'm not exactly following. Is it something to do with dual screen games or something? It doesn't look like it has any impact on the single player games I play in 3D with either brand of glasses with no issues. I was just enjoying another couple of levels of drakes deception 3D this afternoon with the MV3Ds. .



Yes, it's for dual screen games. Instead of two images of the same scene going to each eye for 3D, two separate (2D) images are sent, one to each player's set of glasses. No more split screen and/or accidental screen cheating. Each player sees his own in-game point of view full screen. Games can be retrofitted with a downloadable patch much easier than converting them to 3d.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/21850526
> 
> 
> Yes, it's for dual screen games. Instead of two images of the same scene going to each eye for 3D, two separate (2D) images are sent, one to each player's set of glasses. No more split screen and/or accidental screen cheating. Each player sees his own in-game point of view full screen. Games can be retrofitted with a downloadable patch much easier than converting them to 3d.



Ok then yep got it. I'll pass, I play the singleplayer 3D stuff by myself. Mates that come around aren't particularly interested in playing PS3, let alone in 3D. Interesting I guess for those affected by the issue.


----------



## The Flying Kite

How will the dual screen support work with an Xbox S? Or will it never work?


----------



## zkidz

The PS3 is the only console explicitly supporting dual view at the moment. However, since you can force the glasses into dual-view mode, then if you can also force your set into side-by-side or top-to-bottom mode, you can get almost the same effect. The problem there is the aspect ratio gets stretched out.


What Microsoft plans to do in the 3D space in the future might be interesting to know.


(Note there is another use for this feature other than gaming -- for people who get headaches from 3D, they can turn to this mode to watch in 2D while the rest of the people in the room are watching in 3D.)


----------



## saltysteven

So are the mv3d glasses the best bang for the buck??


----------



## rwestley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *saltysteven* /forum/post/21867114
> 
> 
> So are the mv3d glasses the best bang for the buck??



I have both the Xpand 104's and the MV 3d glasses. If they MV glasses will work with your equipment they are a great buy at this time. Check out Amazon. Much less than the Xpands and they work with RF rather than IR. They are also more comfortable in my opinion.


----------



## saltysteven




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rwestley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I have both the Xpand 104's and the MV 3d glasses. If they MV glasses will work with your equipment they are a great buy at this time. Check out Amazon. Much less than the Xpands and they work with RF rather than IR. They are also more comfortable in my opinion.



Ok great I think ill get two and try them out. Do you have a link? I thought I saw them for $59 , but now there like $72


----------



## Mind Voyager




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audionewer* /forum/post/21611465
> 
> 
> does x104 3d glasses work with HD33? if so, which frequency work? RF or IR?



Terribly sorry if this has been answered - but I don't think I've seen a response to this. Will the 104s work with bitcauldron/MV3D/Optoma's RF frequency, or do you need the 104 RF emitter?


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mind Voyager* /forum/post/21890113
> 
> 
> Terribly sorry if this has been answered - but I don't think I've seen a response to this. Will the 104s work with bitcauldron/MV3D/Optoma's RF frequency, or do you need the 104 RF emitter?



Nobody knows that yet, as the required RF glasses transmitter attachment is style in true Xpand style, is still vapourware. So if and when it gets released, I'd say it probably will. That's if it's been designed to work with 'existing' 3D RF systems.


----------



## GEP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mind Voyager* /forum/post/21890113
> 
> 
> Terribly sorry if this has been answered - but I don't think I've seen a response to this. Will the 104s work with bitcauldron/MV3D/Optoma's RF frequency, or do you need the 104 RF emitter?



I suspect that the RF dongle will not be compatible with the Bitcauldron system simply because Xpand is a major player in the "Full HD 3D Glasses" initiative and the RF part of that is based on Bluetooh. The Bitcauldron solutions is not Bluetooth.

http://www.fullhd3dglasses.com/ 


I could be wrong but the Bitcauldron RF is based on Zigbee not Bluetooth.
http://www.bitcauldron.com/index.php...d=98&Itemid=66


----------



## The Flying Kite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zkidz* /forum/post/21855029
> 
> 
> The PS3 is the only console explicitly supporting dual view at the moment. However, since you can force the glasses into dual-view mode, then if you can also force your set into side-by-side or top-to-bottom mode, you can get almost the same effect. The problem there is the aspect ratio gets stretched out.
> 
> 
> What Microsoft plans to do in the 3D space in the future might be interesting to know.
> 
> 
> (Note there is another use for this feature other than gaming -- for people who get headaches from 3D, they can turn to this mode to watch in 2D while the rest of the people in the room are watching in 3D.)



I tried to do this by converting my projector to 3D side-by-side, while playing Call of Duty MW3 on my Xbox. I double-tapped the power button, and... Nothing happened.







The glasses did turn off and then back on, but other than that, the same split screen picture was shown. I also tried with top-to-bottom and still nothing happened.

Am I doing something wrong, or... I'm not quite sure what the other option I could give is.









Thanks










EDIT: Also I updated all of my glasses to the latest firmware right after I unpacked them. (I think it was 2.01 or something. Either way, it's the latest firmware.


----------



## zkidz

If you were seeing a "split screen", your set wasn't in 3D mode. You have to go side-by-side and then force your set into 3D side-by-side mode, so that with the naked eye you see the mixed image. Also, getting the "double click" timing right can be a bit tricky. You can't click too fast or too slow or hold the button too long.


----------



## robneal81

Amazon _finally_ has the White/Large and Red/Small glasses in stock...literally almost five months after they were supposed to be available and at least four months after the UK dealers had them in stock. I ordered one of each and I'll post my results with them after they arrive. Hopefully there won't be any difference between those and the two pairs of Blue/Large I already own.


As much as I thought the MonsterVision glasses were comfortable, the buzzing was just too annoying for me to deal with. I know how bad Xpand's support has been, but the X104's are still the best glasses I've tried. Ever since the firmware update was released, I haven't had a single problem with them and they're still _much_ better than all other pairs I've tried (except the MV's, they were about equal).


At the very least, it's nice to not have to deal with Projector People again and to just use Amazon.


----------



## Wesley Hester

I had the large blue model from Amazon briefly but they would not stay synced to my Mitsubishi WD-92840. This surprised me very much as I use and love my Mitsubishi branded Xpand X103's. Really liked every thing else about the X104's. The PC software and firmware update didn't help the syncing issue for me.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21949409
> 
> 
> Amazon _finally_ has the White/Large and Red/Small glasses in stock...literally almost five months after they were supposed to be available and at least four months after the UK dealers had them in stock. I ordered one of each and I'll post my results with them after they arrive. Hopefully there won't be any difference between those and the two pairs of Blue/Large I already own.
> 
> 
> As much as I thought the MonsterVision glasses were comfortable, the buzzing was just too annoying for me to deal with. I know how bad Xpand's support has been, but the X104's are still the best glasses I've tried. Ever since the firmware update was released, I haven't had a single problem with them and they're still _much_ better than all other pairs I've tried (except the MV's, they were about equal).
> 
> 
> At the very least, it's nice to not have to deal with Projector People again and to just use Amazon.



Rob I've heard you comment on the buzzing before. As a noted very recent adopter of the MonsterVisions, after having had 3 pairs of blue normal size X104's since early Dec, I def cannot report either the 1 MonsterVision pair or the 2 Optoma branded pairs have any sort of buzzing happening. This would be something I'd have noticed after being a solid Xpand 103 and 104 user for a year. Nor have I heard this from any of the other users. How many MV3D's have you tried?


----------



## robneal81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OzHDHT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Rob I've heard you comment on the buzzing before. As a noted very recent adopter of the MonsterVisions, after having had 3 pairs of blue normal size X104's since early Dec, I def cannot report either the 1 MonsterVision pair or the 2 Optoma branded pairs have any sort of buzzing happening. This would be something I'd have noticed after being a solid Xpand 103 and 104 user for a year. Nor have I heard this from any of the other users. How many MV3D's have you tried?



Only one pair, but people in this thread, as well as people on other forums...and even the vendor I got them from confirmed that some of them hum. If I could somehow guarantee I got a pair that didn't hum, I'd totally keep them. Even if that was possible, I wouldn't sell the x104's I already own, I'd just keep them all. They're too close in quality to definitive say one of them is better or worse.


That statement is (of course) only relevant to my TV / blu-ray player combo, as different people may have different results based on their setup. For the record, I'm using a calibrated Panasonic GT25 plasma and an Oppo BDP-93 blu-ray player.


----------



## OzHDHT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21951983
> 
> 
> Only one pair, but people in this thread, as well as people on other forums...and even the vendor I got them from confirmed that some of them hum. If I could somehow guarantee I got a pair that didn't hum, I'd totally keep them. Even if that was possible, I wouldn't sell the x104's I already own, I'd just keep them all. They're too close in quality to definitive say one of them is better or worse.
> 
> 
> That statement is (of course) only relevant to my TV / blu-ray player combo, as different people may have different results based on their setup. For the record, I'm using a calibrated Panasonic GT25 plasma and an Oppo BDP-93 blu-ray player.



I still find it odd, especially given so many of the existing long time proponents of the MV3D's, who finally swayed me to them after the X104's, have never noted the hum. I'm talking about serious user reviewers like Joerod. I stood up for the Xpand products for a long time till I the X104's came out. I do feel the colour accuracy nod goes very slightly to the MV3D's. It's prob only going to really be noticed on a proj screen setup like mine though. Given the cost in the scheme of things, I just pass my older glasses down the chain into other 3D use or spares. I've got enough misc pairs now to prob bin my original Sony's that came with the HX-800 and VW90! I share the same bluray as your setup with the Oppo 93. All I can add is that I haven't had time or cause yet to try out the MV3D's with either HX-800 I own to see if perhaps the type of display plays a part in the hum issue you and others are experiencing.


----------



## Wesley Hester

I'm considering trying the MV3D's as the X104's didn't work out for me.


Can you place the IR receiver > RF transmitter in the back of the room as long as it receives a good line-of-sight signal from the HDTV's IR transmitter?


Also and more importantly, will the MV3D's work with the 840 series of Mitsubishi HDTV's?


I just want a pair of rechargeable glasses for myself separate from all the others I have and give out to guests.


----------



## GEP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21952867
> 
> 
> I'm considering trying the MV3D's as the X104's didn't work out for me.
> 
> 
> Can you place the IR receiver > RF transmitter in the back of the room as long as it receives a good line-of-sight signal from the HDTV's IR transmitter?
> 
> 
> Also and more importantly, will the MV3D's work with the 840 series of Mitsubishi HDTV's?
> 
> 
> I just want a pair of rechargeable glasses for myself separate from all the others I have and give out to guests.



According the the glasses owner's guide, http://www.monsterproducts.com/lit/Max_3D_manual.pdf the MV glasses transmitter will connnect directly to the back of your TV into the VESA 3D Glasses emitter jack found on all Mitsubishi 3D TVs. Your TV has a USB port for accessory power that can be used to power the transmitter. You do not need to use the IR receiver part of the system - this is for TVs that do not the VESA port. Futhermore, since the MV system is RF, you can still use the TV's internal IR emitter for other glasses - this IR and RF will not interfer with each other. You just cannot use two different IR systems at the same time.


----------



## craiglc15




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robneal81* /forum/post/21847160
> 
> 
> The MV3D glasses arrived and I updated the firmware with the latest one on Monster's website. I watched Monsters vs. Aliens 3D (I know, not the greatest 3D movie, but I hadn't seen it in 3D yet) with my girlfriend and we kept swapping glasses every 20 minutes or so.
> 
> 
> My girlfriend said she barely noticed any difference at all and had no preference on either.
> 
> 
> I noticed differences, but agree that they are very similar...and both are LIGHT YEARS better then the other brands we've tried in the past. Here's what I noticed:
> 
> 
> - The MV3D glasses seemed a tiny bit more comfortable than the X104's. Not night and day different, but you notice them slightly less than the X104's (I don't normally wear glasses, so wearing 3D glasses is always a pain).
> 
> 
> - The MV3D glasses hummed loudly. It was coming from the circuit board that's under the power button. During loud scenes, you can't hear it, but it's REALLY annoying in quiet scenes. The X104's are completely silent.
> 
> 
> - The MV3D's seemed brighter than the X104's. It was barely perceptible and is subjective, but they did seem a bit brighter.
> 
> 
> - Crosstalk was a bit more noticeable (and there's a TON of it in Monsters vs. Aliens) in the MV3D than it was in the X104's. This could simply be a result of them being brighter and making it more noticeable.
> 
> 
> - I think a main source of crosstalk is my TV and not the glasses. I have a Panasonic GT25 plasma, which is a 1st gen 3DTV. I had an opportunity to speak to some Panasonic tech's earlier this week at a conference in NYC and they told me something I found extremely interesting: Their 1st and 2nd gen 3DTV's write pixels by starting with them fully lit and then dimming them to the proper setting (this happens hundreds of times per second). Their new 3rd gen 3DTV's start with the pixels off and raise them to the necessary setting. The tech thinks this method will reduce 90% of crosstalk...but of course that means I'm screwed, because I'm not getting a new TV until OLED comes down in price.
> 
> 
> So, are the MV3D's expected to make a loud humming? Maybe mine are just defective. If so, I'll gladly exchange them another pair and be happy. If that humming is "normal", I'll have to return them...it's just too annoying.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts, questions or comments?



My glasses hummed/buzzed loudly. I had to return them. My wife didn't notice the sound. Maybe only certain people can hear the pitch.


----------



## Wesley Hester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GEP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> According the the glasses owner's guide, http://www.monsterproducts.com/lit/Max_3D_manual.pdf the MV glasses transmitter will connnect directly to the back of your TV into the VESA 3D Glasses emitter jack found on all Mitsubishi 3D TVs. Your TV has a USB port for accessory power that can be used to power the transmitter. You do not need to use the IR receiver part of the system - this is for TVs that do not the VESA port. Futhermore, since the MV system is RF, you can still use the TV's internal IR emitter for other glasses - this IR and RF will not interfer with each other. You just cannot use two different IR systems at the same time.



I want to keep using my X103's at the same time which are IR.


Just making sure of the range and compatibility.


P.S. Sorry forgot to mention I'm using an Xpand transmitter and not the sets internal one.


----------



## GEP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21955217
> 
> 
> I want to keep using my X103's at the same time which are IR.
> 
> 
> Just making sure of the range and compatibility.
> 
> 
> P.S. Sorry forgot to mention I'm using an Xpand transmitter and not the sets internal one.



Well that could then be a problem. If you need to use the IR-to-RF converter, you can put the converter right in front of the Xpand emitter. The RF transmitter adjacent and that would work as long as you have a source of power for the RF transmitter.


Is there a problem with the internal emitter for the Mitsubishi? It is supposed to work with the normal Xpand 103 if you set the Xpand 103s to the Panasonic setting. That is the portocol Mitsubishi switched to when they built the emitter in.


----------



## zkidz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wesley Hester* /forum/post/21950838
> 
> 
> I had the large blue model from Amazon briefly but they would not stay synced to my Mitsubishi WD-92840. This surprised me very much as I use and love my Mitsubishi branded Xpand X103's. Really liked every thing else about the X104's. The PC software and firmware update didn't help the syncing issue for me.



The sync is substandard with my Samsung LN46C750 built-in emitter as well, but they work just fine on my friend's external mits/Samsung adaptor's emitter, which I'm pretty sure is using the same (mits/sammy) protocol slot. I think the interference from the set's frames may be messing up the sync detection. I have the medium size (blue frames as well).


I mentioned it on XPAND's support site, and they tried to sell me the line that individual sets can't be tested/adjusted for by their engineers because then the glasses wouldn't be universal anymore. Obvious solution of course is just to add another protocol slot for the problematic sets. No matter, I'm keeping my MV3Ds for here, and keeping the X104s for gaming purposes over there.


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## robneal81

I received the two new pairs of glasses, one large/white and one small/red. The small glasses are very small: good for a kid or a very small person. The large white are (as expected) _exactly_ like the large/blue I already owned.


From a performance point of view, both the small and large are identical. My tests were all subjective, but I honestly couldn't tell any differences at all between the large and small.


I noticed that there was a new firmware available, v2.1. I updated both the new pairs and compared them to my original two pairs running the firmware from March. There didn't seem to be any difference between the two.


Overall, I'm extremely happy. They work perfect with my TV and are very comfortable. In hindsight, I think getting the Medium glasses would be better than small. Medium's aren't available though, so small is good enough.


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## adidino

Did anyone test these glasses with one of the Sony projectors? I'm thinking about trying these out with my Sony VW1000. I currently have the Monster glasses. I would also be curious if the 104's with the optional rf dongle will communicate with the Monster emitter. Anyone test that?


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## OzHDHT

I've posted my comments many a time in the VW1000 and 95ES threads. I was an Xpand X104 owner from when they came out. But not long after I decided to finally move over to the Monster 3D's and haven't looked back. The X104s work just fine via the factory Sony emitter. As I moved to RF from IR and the RF wasn't available at the time, I didn't try it. However, I suspect if the dongle is designed to work with multiple brands of RF emitters, then it should prob be able to sync to the Monster.


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## Memento2

Two X104 solutions:

-- shutter-speed slider mysteries

-- Xpand YOUniversal PC Application not recognizing / registering X104 glasses


I know, an oldish thread, but apparently one of the larger x104 ones. The "monster" interpolations are welcome too, but re the X104's:


1. For more info about shutter settings, there is a file which I did not see noted otherwise:
http://www.xpand.me/media/storage/storage/2012/02/20/X104_PCapp_Changing_Timings_explained_V_0_0_2.pdf 


Or of course if you google just:

X104_PCapp_Changing_Timings_explained_V_0_0_2.pdf

you will turn up some other references from where it can be downloaded. The more recent PC Application solves the reproducibility problem, with its display of the numeric equivalent to the slider settings.



2. Problem: Connect a new X104 pair via USB to a PC. They will charge, showing either a blinking orange light or a solid green light. However the Xpand YOUniversal PC Application (version _v1200, of Jan/28/2013 e.g.) "v1200" does not recognize those glasses connected by USB. Thus v1200's Registration box will not register the glasses. And then one can only "retry", which does not work, or "cancel" which exits.


I just posted one work-around, not having to do with firewalls, in the Xpand forum:

"xpand X104 glasses do not connect to pc"

http://www.xpand.me/support/forum/product-support/xpand-youniversal-electronic-3d-eyewear/170/ 


Cheers. M.


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## Rolls-Royce




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adidino*  /t/1323215/x-104-youniversal-3d-glasses-xpand-are-not-here/180#post_22190422
> 
> 
> Did anyone test these glasses with one of the Sony projectors? I'm thinking about trying these out with my Sony VW1000. I currently have the Monster glasses. I would also be curious if the 104's with the optional rf dongle will communicate with the Monster emitter. Anyone test that?


Doubtful. CNet's review of the glasses and dongle mention that the dongle makes the glasses compatible with displays that use Bluetooth for RF connection. The Monster and other Bit Cauldron OEM'ed RF glasses use Zigbee, which isn't Bluetooth compatible AFAIK.


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## shunja

I recently acquired few pairs of Xpand Youniversal X104 glasses. Does anyone here have their PC software application for settings/firmware update downloaded? None are found on the internet.


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