# Retail Crestron and Control 4 Pricing



## alsride

I'm building a new house and I have a feeling that the company who is doing my low voltage is trying to screw me. They quoted two different systems. Based upon some info I can find, I'm pretty sure they are over-quoting me. They have labor quoted separately so I know its just the hardware. I'm not interested in dealer pricing at all, I'm a business man and I know about markup. I was just wondering if anyone could give me actual MSRP for the following Crestron and Control 4 products. You can email me off page if you prefer [email protected] Thanks.

Crestron:

AADS

AAE

ATC-AMFMSR

AAS-4

CNTBLOCK

TPS-CL

PAC2

CLW-DIM4RF

C2N-MNETGW


Control 4:

C4-16AMP3-B

AVM-TUN1-B

C4-HC1000-E-B

C4-TSWM7-E-B

C4-HC300-E-B

C4-LDZ-101


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## Syphon Filter

Instead of posting on the forum asking dealers to reveal their privilaged information why don't you go get a couple of competitive quotes or put the job out to tender?


Maybe I am wrong but I don't think many dealers will be willing to hand out list pricing information simply because you have asked.


If you are even half as astute and business like as you suggest then surely a competitive quote is just due diligence?


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## Deane Johnson




> Quote:
> Instead of posting on the forum asking dealers to reveal their privilaged information



Why would asking someone for MSRP prices be privileged information? Just curious. The more I read these posts, the more I get the feeling that some installers consider it some sort of shell game where they gouge all they can. I know of one in my area that operates that way.


Is HA going to be turned into a buyer beware commodity?


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## herdfan

Don't know about C4, but even though Crestron does not make price lists available, the prices are out there. You may just have to look.


Here is a start: http://www.genesishometech.com/pages/forsale.php 



Scroll down a bit.


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## alsride

Thanks for the responses so far.

Giving quotes is a part of business. I quote MSRP parts all the time in my business. The MSRP is not privileged information. Who knows, if a good dealer on here will quote me prices for the parts I have requested, they might even earn my business. Whats wrong with that? All I'm asking for is the MSRP.


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## Syphon Filter

Dealer prices will vary depending on the volume they do annually and the margins they are offered by Crestron.


I don't know (m)any dealers that would tell you the list price that's all.


Why do Crestron not have the MSRPs all listed on their website?










EDIT:


And why should dealers not try to make as much money as they can? If they overprice their customers will go elsewhere (or ask for a discount).


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## tytelogix

I work for a Control4 Premier Gold Dealer as a installer and programmer. here are the MSRP of the items you listed, I have a full price sheet as of 4/10/09 in .pdf if you would like it just pm me. Also if your dealer is using Dtools to do your estimate it may be showing the installed price for each item, and the total for the labor at the bottom of the estimate is including the difference.


C4-16AMP3-B 2495.00 usd

AVM-TUN1-B ??? C4-TUN2-E-B $599.00

C4-HC1000-E-B 2995.00

C4-TSWM7-E-B 1195.00

C4-HC300-E-B 699.00

C4-LDZ-101 129.00


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Syphon Filter* /forum/post/16328749
> 
> 
> Dealer prices will vary depending on the volume they do annually and the margins they are offered by Crestron.
> 
> 
> I don't know (m)any dealers that would tell you the list price that's all.
> 
> 
> Why do Crestron not have the MSRPs all listed on their website?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> And why should dealers not try to make as much money as they can? If they overprice their customers will go elsewhere (or ask for a discount).



Sorry Syphon, but as an integrator I never ceased to be amazed at how many fellow CI's seem to be so threatened by a customer asking a simple question or trying to inform themselves. Some of you guys remind me of men who want their wives as stupid and helpless as possible because anything else scares the **** out of them.


He has stated he is not asking for markup, that he's a business man and is not offended by someone making a markup. He has stated that he sells for MSRP all the time. And he has asked for MSRP only.


Yet you still seem to take offense at it and get defensive ("why should dealers not try to make as much money as they can" and "I don't know (m)any dealers that would tell you the list price that's all"). And why the need to add in the irrelevant statement about how dealers margins vary based on annual volume? *What* does that have to do with MSRP? Does MSRP change







?


Sorry for using this thread to rant but many people in my industry seem to have a very adversarial view towards any customer that dares to even ask about pricing or wants to be informed. And that's coming from someone who is never going to be the cheapest.


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tytelogix* /forum/post/16330368
> 
> 
> Also if your dealer is using Dtools to do your estimate it may be showing the installed price for each item, and the total for the labor at the bottom of the estimate is including the difference.



That's a good point. I've seen a lot of customers over the years convinced someone is ripping them off (by pricing over retail) and the number of times I've actually seen that can be counted on one hand. In most instances it's the customer not understanding the estimate or not realizing that many dealers use package pricing on their proposals. I remember years ago an outraged customer who walked from another dealer on a 6 figure system because they though they caught them selling a projector for 5K over retail. In actuality all it was was the dealer packaged a line doubler with the projector, but when the customer researched prices they just used the projector model number and did not realize they were looking at a package.


To the thread starter, one thing I do wonder about, is why don't you just ask the people you are working with? I have no idea about your particular situation but it always seems a bit strange to me when someone suspects they are being ripped off if they don't even have MSRP...perhaps you won't mind reporting back once you have looked at MSRP.


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## ddave12000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QQQ* /forum/post/16332459
> 
> 
> That's a good point. I've seen a lot of customers over the years convinced someone is ripping them off (by pricing over retail) and the number of times I've actually seen that can be counted on one hand. In most instances it's the customer not understanding the estimate or not realizing that many dealers use package pricing on their proposals. I remember years ago an outraged customer who walked from another dealer on a 6 figure system because they though they caught them selling a projector for 5K over retail. In actuality all it was was the dealer packaged a line doubler with the projector, but when the customer researched prices they just used the projector model number and did not realize they were looking at a package.
> 
> 
> To the thread starter, one thing I do wonder about, is why don't you just ask the people you are working with? I have no idea about your particular situation but it always seems a bit strange to me when someone suspects they are being ripped off if they don't even have MSRP...perhaps you won't mind reporting back once you have looked at MSRP.



Well, hopefully they're not showing installed price with labor as the OP stated the labor is broken out separately...that would be quite the double dip...


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ddave12000* /forum/post/16335169
> 
> 
> Well, hopefully they're not showing installed price with labor as the OP stated the labor is broken out separately...that would be quite the double dip...



If that is what they were doing it sure would be, but again, we can't determine much from an Internet posting. Some estimating systems add in labor for each piece of equipment. So the piece sells for $1000, 2 hours labor @ $75, so the estimate might say "$1150". However there is always some additional labor above and beyond that, which is often shown at the end as additional line items. For instance programming or wiring or project management.


Bottom line, there are multiple ways to do an estimate and it probably makes good sense for the CI to make it crystal clear to the customer how he (the CI) broke his proposal down.


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## Julie Jacobson

Virtually every vendor provides MSRPs -- sometimes in their press releases, and sometimes only if you (or me, as an editor) asks.


We publish these routinely, and put "retail price" in quotations to indicate that the products aren't available at retail, but here's at least a guideline...(excluding installation/programming costs)


I think it's unfair to suggest that a proposal is "unfair" or an integrator is "screwing you" on price. You just need to dig in and ask them to explain specifically what kind of work the job entails.


You are of course free to solicit multiple service providers, but the cheapest bid certainly may not be the best!


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## Syphon Filter

Guy, I'm not a Crestron dealer so don't go hell for leather on me. I'm just offering my 2 cents.


Out of interest has anyone who has replied in this thread berating me supplied the OP with retail pricing?


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Syphon Filter* /forum/post/16335736
> 
> 
> Guy, I'm not a Crestron dealer so don't go hell for leather on me. I'm just offering my 2 cents.
> 
> 
> Out of interest has anyone who has replied in this thread berating me supplied the OP with retail pricing?



1. No, but you are a Crestron programmer.


2. I have not supplied it because I assume he already received it. If he has not he is welcome to write to me and I'll gladly supply it. He's asking for MSRP, it's hardly a secret. If anyone I was doing business with refused to tell me MSRP I'd run the other way as fast as I could. It's not so much that MSRP might matter, it's more what it would say about how they respect me as a customer.


I have a question, you never want to know what MSRP is when you buy something







? If you wanted to buy a car and went to a car dealer and asked them what MSRP was on the car you are looking at (let's pretend the sticker law is not in effect since car dealers have no choice in the matter), you'd happily write them a check







?


Please note, I'm not arguing that getting competitive quotes as you suggested is not also an option, so please don't use that point to avoid my question







.


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## ddave12000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QQQ* /forum/post/16335397
> 
> 
> If that is what they were doing it sure would be, but again, we can't determine much from an Internet posting. Some estimating systems add in labor for each piece of equipment. So the piece sells for $1000, 2 hours labor @ $75, so the estimate might say "$1150". However there is always some additional labor above and beyond that, which is often shown at the end as additional line items. For instance programming or wiring or project management.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, there are multiple ways to do an estimate and it probably makes good sense for the CI to make it crystal clear to the customer how he (the CI) broke his proposal down.



Of course, and you're absolutely right there are multiple ways to do an estimate. I was just taking the post at face value.


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## alsride

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my needs and questions. I have had people contact me with the pricing information I requested and I greatly appreciate it. My next step is to take all of your advice talk to my CI about the specifics of their bid. I'm really not in a position to bid out to other people right now as they have already started pulling wire. I did originally get a number of bids, but is was only for structured wiring and we started adding this automation stuff after we chose our CI.

But Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help.


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## da_pirate

Well at least ask what the hell are they thinking. this is a terrible system unless there is more you are not telling. Why the need for the PAC2? Just to run the (1) infinet dimmer and gateway? Why the need for the AAS-4? there is obviously more cost effective solutions.

You need to have your low voltage guy explain why he is spec'ing every item in this system. Also make sure he is clear on what you want. I see it all too often, the end result is not what the customer wants and now they are pissed. In my opininon not a good system. Looks like it's been spec'ed this way so it can be programmed with systembuilder and d3pro. Not a knock against it but i don't think an integrator should spec the system he wants to work with, only spec what the customer needs and would be happy with. There has to be more lighting controls that you are not mentioning (I sure hope)


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## QQQ

Ya, the Pac2 jumped out at me as an unusual choice too. Can't imagine why a Pac2 is being put on a system that only seems to have some some wireless lighting. Your guess may be a good one. I recently encountered a very large system where it was clear all of the CI's choices were based on only being able to work with SB.


Don't see what's wrong with an AAS-4 though.


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## da_pirate

AAS-4 (discontinued maybe)


Lot of other cheaper solutions. Look at the MSRP on this! Guy was complaining about the cost. Could trim down there and go with some other solutions such as Escient ES-300 with (2 to 3) ZP1 for less. Same functionality, just doesn't have the brand name on it. Or maybe interface with -Tunes and/or Ipod with a CEN-ISERVER. Nothing wrong with AAS-4 but when customer eyes pop out, could trim money down there. I just think that AAS is overpriced myself. Just my 2 cents. Only problem is, not SB friendly. Integrator would actually have to do some programming work - God forbid


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## QQQ

I didn't read him say he was trying to get something cheaper (who doesn't want to pay less of course), just that he wanted to make sure he was not being taken advantage of. I also don't know how many zones he wants. Maybe he'd like 4 zones so I'd not jump to the conclusion it os overkill. I think we are debating minutia, there are many ways to skin a cat, it just did not jump out at me as something that was in any way improper and I think it's a bit unfair to draw such a conclusion from such a brief listing of equipment with no interaction with the customer. The Pac2 on the other hand is clearly a strange choice based on what is shown there, but as you said earlier there may be more, so we might even be off base in that regard.


FWIW, SB definitely has modules for many other music servers, I don't think there's any reason to conclude that necessarily drove the selection of the AAS.


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## da_pirate

you are right...

i'm not trying to get into a design war with you









that is not my intent. You are right about the SB modules but the one for Escient, the only way to put it is ... it sucked big time. I try to stay away from it myself. The reason i commented on the AAS is because no one spec's it anymore. Of all the integrators i do work for, i haven't seen one in quite some time. Partly because of Crestron's decision in regards to it. If this system didn't have a SR tuner card, i would say to do it another way. Unfortunately the only other option is a CEN-TRACK. Wouldn't be worth it to dump the AADS. I personally am biased against the Adagio systems. I like what the idea was in regards to it. I just don't like the limited processing capabilites. I prefer to do system with CP2E and AAE's personally. You get the full processor and an extra com port (compared to some of the Adagio Processors). But that's a whole different topic of course. To get back to discussion, i said the ES-300 and (2 to 3) ZP1's to give the other 3 zones. So that would give 4 zones at a more cost effective price. But after reading your post, he did say he just wanted to verify if his contractor was using vaseline or just really just giving him the shaft.


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## QQQ

lol


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## Syphon Filter

Ok, ignoring questions about MSRP, I too have just noticed the PAC2.


There is no reason for that to be in there. The C2N-MNETGW (which is the gateway for the wireless dimmer you have) should run just fine off the Adagio processor.


How many lighting circuits are you having put in as part of this install?


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## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Syphon Filter* /forum/post/16328749
> 
> 
> Dealer prices will vary depending on the volume they do annually and the margins they are offered by Crestron.
> 
> 
> I don't know (m)any dealers that would tell you the list price that's all.
> 
> 
> Why do Crestron not have the MSRPs all listed on their website?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> And why should dealers not try to make as much money as they can? If they overprice their customers will go elsewhere (or ask for a discount).



Just because a dealers price may vary doesnt mean they cant list the MSRP of the product. I dont know anyone charging more than MSRP for crestron product that would just be crazy. but the point here is that he is asking MSRP (which he is entitled to) and not Dealer Cost(which he is not entitled to). I am not doing it because the list is a bit long and I dont have the info readily in front of me.


As far as the AAS servers go I am not a fan I've had a few of these go bad and the music unrecoverable. Customers do not want to load their music multiple times. I am a fan of Kaleidescape and Ipod for this reason.. Kaleidescape for obvious reasons and ipod because if it goes bad they buy a new and then they can reload the music. They do not need an integrators help to do this. That is IMO how I feel about the AAS music servers.


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## Syphon Filter

It sounds to me like they've gone down the AAS route as the system is an Adagio and will either be System Builder'd, Adagio Composer'd or programmed via the front panel with the OOTB functionality as I said earlier.


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## jeandenis

Thank you for the post tytelogix. I was curious about the pricing as well just for a ball park idea. Now I know, cheers!


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## drvnbysound

I am not any sort of dealer by any means, but I wanted to throw $.02 out there..


Just because you ask your CI to provide MSRP pricing for the products you are getting, doesnt mean he will actually supply MSRP pricing. He can just as easily tell you they are what is listed on your quote, or provide you with another page that quotes "MSRP" at whatever he feels like entering into the blank space. Its not hard for any vendor to make a faux price sheet with MSRP doubled, and list "their price" as a percentage of it, and still be able to take advantage of customers. If you cant get MSRP directly from the manufacturer you are pretty much left to ask around and get enough competitive pricing to compare and feel comfortable paying a certain price - even if it may be above MSRP.


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