# Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread



## motorman45

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## jmcguire525

For anyone wanting to do 3D at home I would highly recommend this system, simultaneous L/R images to each eye is the key to great 3D as is a large screen. For about $3,000 you can have an amazing 3D setup at home on a white screen. When I say $3,000 I mean 1080p bright images using two Panasonic AR100U projectors, it can be done for much less but you will sacrifice resolution or brightness. Until more projectors like the RED projector come out that are able to display simultaneous L/R eye images this is your best bet.


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## 3dmaven

Speaking as someone using the omega system, it is really quite superior. The extinction really is near zero, no special screen is required and the color is great. Also, the customer service has been spectacular. I mounted the filters internally in my pjs. I know the duct tape is rather unprofessional, but I didn't want to use glue and screw mount, while possible, we're too much work at the present moment. The crappy colors in the picks are due to my failure to calibrate and the camera situation.


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## motorman45

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## sanderdvd

I ve asked this question in the other thread about the Omega 3D setup but didn t get an answer yet.


How is the 3D compared to eg. the Sony VW95? I know that a Omega dual projector setup will have much more brightness, no ghosting and no flickering but what about other aspects like colour uniformity, motion handling and last but not least black level. The Sony VW95 does a very good job on all these.


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## motorman45

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## _gl

I'm keeping an eye on 3D projection technology for a public projection project. I needs to be top-notch, with a _lot_ of brightness (I will be projecting ~5m wide) & minimal crosstalk - and it needs to be affordable. The Bryteworks Model 1 projector (brytewerks DOT com) with its 11,000 lumens lamp option looks interesting (pending reviews & reliability), and the Omega filters could be perfect as it makes for a much simpler and less fragile portable projection screen. Only downside is the glasses cost for larger viewer numbers (but I guess cost goes down with volume?).


According to their FAQ, Bryteworks have no interest in 3D, but I think they're very wrong - they are targeting film makers, artists, clubs etc, and there are bound to be a lot of people interested in doing 3D. Maybe they're worth talking to about including your filters in a future model?


But if they don't bite, how would the Omega filters work with their projectors? AFAIK they are using a large-ish LCD panel for the image source (design is based on traditional large-panel DIY projectors). How would your filters cope with that (frame size, spectral balance) and the very high brightness? Would crosstalk become an issue at those light levels?


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## motorman45

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## _gl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45* /forum/post/22019188
> 
> 
> I would be interested in a review of this Byteworks unit. it dosnt actually sound that good with only 1000:1 contrast.



They claim it's 'true' contrast rather than 'marketing' contrast. No idea if that's true.



> Quote:
> the specs dont add up saying it draws 350 watts when there is a 700 watt lamp ??



I suspect they're talking about the PC power supply only, in case you want to add upgrades to it.



> Quote:
> the integrated HTPC is interesting. i dont see how it could do 3D well with large LCD pannel like that.



Why specifically?



> Quote:
> the omega filters could work if you have two of these and place a large filter in front of each lens but then ypu still need a separate way od de multiplexing the 3d to the two and they already have a pc in them ?? not sure.



I will actually use custom playback software so that may not be an issue (as long as the frames can be reasonably well synced). Or it may need some hacking so that a single graphics board/chip can drive both projectors in sync.


Of course a dual-light engine single projector with similar specs/price would be _way_ better. I would talk to them about it, they may not see 3D as relevant now, but they're targeting exactly the right crowd & if they get enough requests they may change their mind.


What appeals to me about their specs is the very high lumen count (11,000) with cheap replacement bulbs & reasonable-ish overall cost. BTW their specs only mention a 1:1 throw lens which I know isn't ideal for your filters, but they're actually planning 2:1 and 3:1 lens options.



> Quote:
> for a good looking large area ( 5m ) passive 3D rig you would be better off with some used Barco light cannons, a pair of them and set them up like one of the recent posters on here. ive seen good used Barcos cheap on ebay. mostly kind of large for most home instalations but look amazing im sure.



This wouldn't be for home but for public exhibition. I don't know the Light Cannons but I'll check them out, thanks. I need at least 720p and very high 'impact' brightness.



> Quote:
> you can get glasses from omega in larger quantities and for less than the listings on ebay. you just need to contact directly.



Cool. Actually I would use them in dark rooms, so the big reflection-cutting 'wings' aren't really required right? I find that the similar Dolby glasses isolate you a bit too much from your surroundings - a smaller/lighter frame would be ideal for that scenario.


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## motorman45

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## _gl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45* /forum/post/22027125
> 
> 
> the reason i dont think this will be a good projector for 3d is that the large single LCD pannel may not have a very good refresh rate or response time for 3d with quick movement. the low contrast takes away form the image



We'll have to wait for the first reviews, they sound pretty confident about their image quality.



> Quote:
> what i meant by light cannons is a general term for projectors with a lot of lumens.



Check.



> Quote:
> there are some good 720p used cinema and simulation projectors like the barco sim 6 like this one for $175



That one claims only 3.4K lumens? With the additional light loss from the filters that won't be anywhere near enough. I'm after 'stage lighting' levels of brightness (after all losses) as this is not a traditional movie projection. And then there's still the issue of expensive proprietary lamps, which bump up the running cost over time. But I'll spend some time researching the models out there.



> Quote:
> if you look in the thread about the ultimate passive 3d system near the end you will see someone else usign these exact units with the omega filters mounted internally behind the lens with great results.



If you mean 3dmaven, he also says "I would love a little more brightness"







.



> Quote:
> if you have custom software that can split the 3d signal i would be interested to know more about it. there are a few choices but not many that can demultiplex 3d for a dual projector system.



It's not written yet, but I've done similar code for general 3D video processing.



> Quote:
> the "wings" on the glasses have been tested and developed as needed to reduce back reflection.



Ah, that's what I was missing. I was assuming side reflection was the issue.



> Quote:
> they are not pretty but it dose make them work better. besides if your drawn in to the 3d movie you dont notice or want to notice what is around you.



It depends on what's being shown. For movies you're mostly right, but I'm considering other scenarios, like (say) art installations, audience participation, that kind of thing. But even for a movie, if you go with a friend (or someone you want to get close too : ), those types of glasses are too isolating.


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## motorman45

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## _gl

Cool, your filters sound very promising. My project isn't ready to go yet, but I'll certainly keep my eye on them until then.


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## David Tiede

I currently use two seven year old Panasonic PT-AE700U LCD projectors with StereoBright 90% efficient polarizers and portable 84 square Da-Lite Silver Lite 2.5 projection screen to show 3D videos which I make to audiences of up to 200 people.


I'm interested in creating a 3D home theater space in a 13.5' by 30' by 7' high basement. I have some questions about how to use your Omega system with my projectors in this space. My projectors are only 1000 lumens. They work well with my polarizers since they are highly efficient. I don't know the equivalent efficiency of your system but need to know:


1. Will my projectors be bright enough?

2. What gain will my painted projection surface require?

3. Do you have any recommendations to follow from the AVS DIY Screen Section?

4. How large can I make the screen? I'm planning to paint the entire 13.5' by 7' wall and use black velvet fabric masking for whatever screen size and aspect ratio I desire. I'd also like to use this wall as a photographic background.


As a side note, there is a small art theater (~200 seats in each of two theaters) in my home town which is interested in showing 3D movies on their non-silver screens. They are talking about using a system that sounds like it might be from Omega but wonder if you do commercial 3D installations with just a single projector. They have just purchased a new Barco projector and the 2D shows are fantastic (just attended a Film Fest of 8 movies there).


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## motorman45

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## audionewer

if i got 2 x projectors (HD33) that has 1800 lumes and 1.3 gain screen (100inches). will it be okay with Omega 3d passive kit or not.


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## motorman45

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## audionewer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45* /forum/post/22045168
> 
> 
> Yes. i just built a new rig with two optoma HD20's 1700 lumens each and it looked great on a 120" 1,0 gain screen and it was even ok on my 177" screen but that was with no ambient light.



do i have to buy any kind of screen or i can use the same one.


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## motorman45

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## audionewer

okay, that mean i can still use my 1.3 gain screen. if i want a passive 3d , then i just need another hd33 and ur kit. is that correct?


can i use the 3d glasses in the theatre or i have to buy other kind of glasses for it.


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## BlackShark

Yes, you just need two projectors and the omega kit. You can use any type of screen you want.

I tried with my old silverscreen and with a regular white wall, they both work properly.


You need to use Omega's glasses, there are at the moment no other compatible glasses.


The light output is strongly affected. I previously used Advisol SP polarising filter to take advantage of the internal polarisation of my Epson 3LCD projectors and the drop in light output is clearly visible. I do not have a light-meter but I compared them side by side.

-Advisol SP (1st gen) rated at 80% transmission

-Regular polarising filter rated at 46% transmission

-Omega

The Omega picture looks slightly darker than the one with regular polarising filters.


I am taking a few pictures of my setup, I'll show them later today.


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## audionewer

where do u buy 3d glass in usa?


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## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audionewer* /forum/post/22046164
> 
> 
> where do u buy 3d glass in usa?



Directly from Omega Optical or their ebay reseller.


edit : here are the pictures :

Projectors : 2x Epson EH TW3500 (euro equivalent to the Epson 8100)

Filters : Omega Optical for LCD

Glasses : Omega Optical glasses

Screen type : Harkness Spectal 240 (silverscreen)

Screen size : 106" diagonal, 16:9 (230x130cm)


The silverscreen isn't required for the Omega system but I lack some lumen so I kept the screen.

Here are a few pics from the Omega Optical system, I removed the silverscreen for these pictures and projected against the white wall.

Sorry for the poor quality, it's a cell phone camera.

All those pictures would need commenting, there's a lot to say but I don't have the time to write a long essay today, I'll do it in my thread (see mi signature) whenever I get the time.
  
  

The Omega filters are very reflective, a lot of light is reflected back inside the projectors, make sure the projectors are well cooled to prevent them from overheating.

The glasses are of "theme park" style : they look very dorky and the plastic feels cheap but also feels durable.

   

The famous DDD alignment chart. There is zero visible crosstalk, regardless of the view angle.


Colours are different between the eyes but with the glasses on, but they're close enough that the brain can merge them surprisingly well without creating eye rivalry or headaches.

However I still do recommend to use projectors with decent colour correction features.

I found this article explaining why and how this happens and how to counter it (I believe Motorman wrote it)
https://sites.google.com/site/passiv...tioninprolog20 

Some colours have more problems than others. Here are a bunch of pictures taken through the glasses lenses with a few hue corrections on some colours.

The left eye appears almost colour balanced, the right eye has the most problems.

The most noticeable issues are :

-Cyan is desaturated in the right eye, almost white (mainly due to LCD projectors' output spectrum, the camera picks it up as a brighter cyan, it actually looks white to the eye)

-Red is too dim in the right eye (mainly due to UHP/UHE lamp output spectrum)

-Green is very bright and it's hue drifts toward yellow (probably due to a spike in the projector's output spectrum)

-Magenta hue drifts toward blue (probably tied to the red issue mentioned above, 99% fixable with the Epson's individual colour hue settings)
  
  
  
  
  

An improvised colour chart test with the default projector colour settings (just "dynamic" mode for highest lumen output)

Notice the purple drift at the bottom of the left eye : it's due to the high amount of lens shift, the light passes though the filter at a steep angle, I need to tilt the filter to make the light pass through at a more reasonable angle.


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## David Tiede

You have recommended a higher output projector for my proposed 12' by 7' screen size for my basement home theater. I must say I really appreciate the horizontal and vertical lens shift feature of my current Panasonic LCD projectors as I plan to mount the projectors upside-down and side-by-side on the ceiling. The DLP projectors don't seem to have this feature and I'm not sure how you align the left and right images without using the dreaded digital keystone adjustment feature.


I'd appreciate your evaluation of the following proposed projectors:


Epson Home Cinema 8100 (1800 lumens)

Panasonic AR100U (2800 lumens)

Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 (2000 lumens)


I can find the Epson 8100 projectors for about $750 (remanufactured). A Projector Central comparison of the Panasonic AR100U versus the Epson 8350 favored the Epson basically because the Panasonic projector was too bright. It seems the brighter the better for use with the Omega 3D System and a large screen width. I'd love to hear your recommendation.


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## BlackShark

12'x7' (365x213cm) That is a large screen surface for a home theatre.

Mine is 230x130cm with 2.4 gain, and I reckon I'm just a little dim, a few extra lumen would be welcome. (I like bright pictures, who cares about black levels when my living room has white walls !)

My projectors claim to be 1800 lumen but they're actually a bit lower, the reviews I can find on the web measure it's output between 1200 and 1600 lumen in max brightness mode (which I use). I don't have a light metre, but my projectors aren't exactly new and I'm using a small amount of zoom, so let's assume my projectors actually output 800 lumen but I'd wish I had 1000 lumen.

Your projected screen area is 2.6 times bigger than mine, so you'd need about 2600 lumen.


The Panasonic projector appears to be the ideal candidate, but let's not forget that's the highest lumen output mode with a brand new lamp. It will dim out over time, so for this screen size you might want something a little bit more powerful, or might want to reconsider the screen size just to make sure you'll get enough lumen over the life time of the lamps.


I'm not about to change my projectors anytime soon (unless they get broken somehow), but whenever I'll change them, I'll switch to these Panasonics (or their equivalent at that time) and take advantage of the extra lumen to remove the silverscreen and spread the picture on a larger surface. Probably the white wall first and a proper screen when I find the proper lumen/size ratio.


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## arshad0312

Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as

1. the polarisation filters are dark

2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen

3. The polarised glasses are also dark


Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.

*Simple to install and the results are WOW*


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## spectrogj

It is great to hear that someone appreciates technology and what it can do if properly researched.


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## maintman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *arshad0312* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as
> 
> 1. the polarisation filters are dark
> 
> 2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen
> 
> 3. The polarised glasses are also dark
> 
> 
> Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.
> 
> 
> Simple to install and the results are WOW



Cool! Let's hear more details. What equipment are you using with it?


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## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *arshad0312* /forum/post/22063602
> 
> 
> Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as
> 
> 1. the polarisation filters are dark
> 
> 2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen
> 
> 3. The polarised glasses are also dark
> 
> 
> Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.
> 
> *Simple to install and the results are WOW*



There is a good reason why polarisation is technical : it's been used for decades and there's a lot of knowledge that allows fine-tuning the system, and the cases where things don't work properly have already been found.

The complexity increases also because there are some tricks to keep as much brightness as possible which only work on certain type of projectors.

There are also a high number of projection experts who have tried it and published their findings over the years.

You could still try it the simple way by taking a random pair of projectors, a pair of filters and a 3D certified silverscreen, it would work, but not be optimal.


The omega system is new, we start with a clean slate : so we just put the filters in front of the projectors and see how it goes. You seem to believe the results are perfect and that Omega is all great : it isn't the case, there are some problems which have to be identified, understood and corrected.

From what we have currently discovered, the Omega system is going to require technical knowledge that is much more difficult to grasp than polarisation mainly due to the price of the measuring instruments.


You can understand polarisation and find out how the projectors will behave with 10$ worth of polarising plastic sheets.

In order to understand how a projector interacts with the Omega system before buying, you need a 1000$~4000$ spectrometer.


Regarding your 1-2-3 assumptions :

1 - standard linear polarised filters and the Omega filters transmit roughly the same amount of light, but polarising filters do have an advantage if the projector's light is already polarised (LCD or LCoS projectors), you can leverage this internal polarisation and make the polarising system significantly more efficient than Omega, it require more technical knowledge to use it though.


2 - Silverscreens are high gain, directive screens, they focus the light on axis at the expense of the sides, in a normal home theatre environment (seats roughly on axis) a silverscreen is much brighter than a standard matte screen


3 - the glasses have very little effect on brightness, barely a few percent, since the light is pre-filtered by the filters in front of the projector, this is worth for both polarising filters and the Omega filters.


Overall : polarised has better colour than Omega (just look at those Reds in my pictures above). Brightness depends on whether or not you intend to use the tricks to boost polarised efficiency. If you do : polarised is significantly brighter than Omega, if you don't : polarised and Omega are roughly the same brightness.

The place where Omega really shines is crosstalk (Zero crosstalk with Omega, but lots of it with polarised) and the ability to work with any type of screen (many people don't like high gain directive screens and prefer matte screens).


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## motorman45

image here


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## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45* /forum/post/22067576
> 
> 
> by the way BlackShark great post with the pictures ! i think the test pattern showing color differance side by side is good. i would like to try that type of pattern as well so i can take some shots of the different projectors i can get my hands on. where did you get that?



I made the central pattern myself using Microsoft Paint, I put my projectors in a side by side spanned desktop, maximized Microsoft Paint across the dual-desktop and painted some colour by hand approximately next to each other. It is as far as you can imagine from a proper professional pattern (you can see in the picture that most stuff doesn't even line up)

On the sides are some random colour wheels I found using google images, there are plenty of them to choose from, I didn't even edit them into the picture : you can see the FireFox browser window around them.

At the bottom are some windows explorer windows : they're there to make the picture brighter, my phone"s crappy camera would over-expose the patterns without these additional windows.


Just to make my previous post clearer : the Omega system is far from being bad, it's currently my favourite system and the one I've decided to keep using for a while (I still have my polarising filters and silverscreen, I can switch systems any time I want). The colour differences are definitely there but they're low enough to not be a major issue.

I just wanted to say it isn't perfect like some might imagine.


Motorman, when I read you, I wish I had chosen DLP projectors a few years ago, (my next projector purchase is still a few years away), I keep hearing people saying they don't have colour issues with DLP, I'm curious : can you take some pictures through the left and right lenses (like I did in my previous post), so that everyone can see how small the differences are ?

(you can do a colour chart like mine, but actual pictures of movies/games would be interesting to see the effects in a real usage situation)


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## motorman45

image here


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## arshad0312




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maintman* /forum/post/22064955
> 
> 
> Cool! Let's hear more details. What equipment are you using with it?



Well folks don't make the things complicated. i already had a 5D theater which was set up by Chinese using polarization filters and silver screen. when I developed my own 3D home theater using Omega kit the results were amazing. I simply used two sony lcd projectors 1500 Lumens each. Nvidia Geforce 240 graphic card with a normal pc (duo core). Omega kit does not involve rocket science. Just align the projectors, put the filters infront and there you go. Its indeed simple. Do not confuse your self with color loss, brightness loss and other high tech trivial details. be simple and get the best.


CIAO


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## arshad0312




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45* /forum/post/22074474
> 
> 
> Thanks, im very glad it works so well for you. great feedback



Hi Motorman.


Where can I get GEO501 from?


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## TrickMcKaha

Motorman45 and BlackShark especially, Great Thread.


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## _gl

I was recently enthusiastic about the potential for the Brytewerks Model 1 projector for an Omega setup... until I got talking to their head honcho and he insulted me for no reason. If you're interested the full story is here .


I no longer have much confidence in their product ... of course I'd like to be wrong.


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## motorman45

image here


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## David Tiede

Isn't the Omega method basically just a multi-spectral version of anaglyph? If so, is there anything corresponding to the retinal rivalry seen with red/cyan coding when one color is predominantly red?


For example, suppose a large area of the image has a color which falls entirely within the (admittedly narrow) band of some color? How would this be seen by the other eye? Is this a concern that is not important in practice? If it is not important, my inquiring mind wants to know why.


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## motorman45

image here


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## kenng72

Hi,


I'm a new user of the LCD omega 3D kit and just want to provide some inputs. This kit is amazing. The picture quality is so clear and 3D effect is awsome. The only minor problem I experienced is the left eye brightness. On certain dark scenes, sometimes it's dark with a little bit of brightness and sometimes it's completely black. Anybody experiences this problem? My system spec is below.


Omega 3d LCD

2xPanasonic Ar100u

ATI Radeon HD 7770 (2x mini DP to HDMI passive adapter)


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## tsamy

I have optoma hd33 , if i like to try passive 3d using this kit, what i have to do,

my optoma hd33 can be modified to output L/R signal so i can choose L image from my optoma , so i will have to buy another optoma hd 33 or it is cheaper to buy another projector but in that case i have to buy L/R Separator ? i have already white screen as i know it is worikng well with white screen no need for silver screen,

is the glasses of this kit is comfortable because from the photo it is not look so, and how much if i like to buy more glasses, and is it sold out separate?

Thanks for all of you.


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89

So I've got a weird question, has anyone tried this with different projectors? I'm seemingly perpetually curious about 3D (but yet to be "sold" on it). My current projector is a Planar 8150, but I still have the projector it replaced (a BenQ W5000), both are 1080p DLPs, though the Planar is definitely better in a number of ways. But I'm wondering how it would work if I ran this system with a combo of Planar and BenQ?


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89

Yeah, I was thinking it would be "cheap" to try, until I started thinking about it and realized that I'd need the demultiplexer, and well then there's the anamorphic lens issue too.


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89

I don't like using PCs for playback, and I've got a lens, but not two, and not using it sort of defeats the whole purpose of a CIH setup.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Avlad

Hi all,


Has anybody tried Omega filters with typical LED projectors ? I think, that common dual-optic 3D LED projectors, intended for polarized glasses, should work well also with Omega filters. We just need to change polarization filters inside the projector to Omega filters. What type of the Omega filter would work better with LED source - DLP or LCD/LCOS ?


I am thinking of the following projectors:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector-blu-ray-3D-3DTV-supported/206255_436831972.html 
 
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-Theater-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector/206255_429639521.html


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

Can you take filters from the omega glasses and ask your local eye glasses maker to put the filters into same frame with your perscription glasses ?

or should one mount perscription glasses into omega glasses right after the omega filters in the inside of the glasses ?


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## motorman45

image here


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## l88bastard

I love 3D but the current selection of 720p 3d projectors are too low of resolution for my tastes and all of the TRUE 1080p 3D lcd monitors have terrible crosstalk. So I am interested in doing dual 1080p DLP projectors for 3D gaming and have a few questions.


I am considering buying two projectors from the following list:


Mitsubishi HC4000

Optoma HD33

Acer H6500

ViewSonic Pro8200


Which projector would be the best for use with the Omega system? Or are there any better DLP choices in the $1,000-$1,500 price range?


Also does the kit come with a mounting setup for both projectors or do we have to build or buy that seperate? If the kit does not come with a mounting setup, what is the best way to setup two DLP projectors that dont have lens shift?


Also what software do we use for 3D gaming with AMD & Nvidia GPUs? Is Tridef DDD the only option? I have an AMD 7970 in one computer and a 680gtx in another computer.


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## Callsign_Vega

I'd like to possible try the Omega system for computer gaming. What software could I use to send every other frame to the separate video card outputs to two different projectors?


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## BlackShark

There are tho methods for sending the pictures to a dual projector setup from a PC, from connecting the projectors directly at the back of the PC (usually, one DVI plug per projector, but Hdmi or Display Ports also works. You can plug directly or through adapters but you should avoid mixing different types of outputs or it can cause driver bugs not being able to sync the displays properly (use either dual DVI or dual Display ports with identical adapters if needed).


-The Traditional method from the professional world : (Nvidia Quadro or ATi Firepro recommended)

-The 2x1 single large surface method "Eyefinity hack" : (the method I use)


The Traditional method from the professional world :

Set your projectors as extended desktops, you absolutely must have only 2 displays active at the same time (if you use a tertiary monitor you need to disable it before starting stereo3D applications or you will get conflicts in some software)

The application you are using must be designed to support dual-projectors this way, all you need to do is to tell the application to use the dual projectors mode and it will automatically send the left eye to one of the projectors and the right eye to the other projector (usually display #1 and #2) If the left and right eye views are reversed, most applications provide a way to switch them, otherwise, you can still switch the plugs at the back of your PC.

This system is GPU agnostic, it works on both ATi and Nvidia, however it uses independent outputs which causes sync lags. The only way to avoid this is to lock the outputs using frame locking : a feature only available on professional cards like Nvidia Quadro and ATi Firepro.

You can still use consumer cards but without frame locking, I find the sync lags too much of a pain to be able to play games in this mode (nicknamed "the 1-frame lag")

For videos you can use Stereoscopic player

For games both DDD Tridef and iZ3D (rip) support it.

Some games also natively support it like Avatar the game (it's right there in the graphics menu) and Crysis 2 (has to be activated manually in the config file)


The 2x1 single large surface method "Eyefinity hack" :

I found this method while trying to avoid the 1-frame lag caused by the traditional way of doing dual-projectors.

Set your desktop as a horizontal spanned single large surface with the two displays side by side. Don't use extended desktops : Windows and DirectX must believe you have only one single giant screen. Since Windows believes you have only one screen, it will refresh both projectors as one and the projectors will be perfectly synchronized.

Then all you need to do is to provide a full screened side by side picture. In essence, this mode is very close to the side by side mode used by 3DTVs, except it's full-resolution and full aspect ratio, ie 3840x1080 for 1080p projectors).

If connecting the projectors directly to the PC, the only Graphics cards that allow this method is ATI using their Eyefinity feature. Nvidia could technically make it work but for some reason, nVidia mandates the use of triple screens to enable their surround mode so you cannot do a 2x1 single large surface desktop. In theory there should be a GPU agnostic way to make it work using Matrox Dualhead2go or Triplehead2go to create the single spanned desktop, but so far I haven't found any report of people testing it, so i do not know if it works or not.

Be extra careful to provide absolutely identical settings for both projectors, the ATi drivers are very picky about it : if it finds a single difference between the outputs it will either break V-sync or will de-synchronize them (resolution, framerate, bit depth, AND, output plug, converter, projector model). ATi claims they have fixed this problem in a recent driver update, I haven't tested it, but even if it worked It's a very sensitive thing that might break at the next driver version/ next card model. So I'll just stick to identical outputs all the way through.

For videos you can use Stereoscopic player, if your video is stored as a side by side video you can also use any 2D video player with the ability to ignore the aspect ratio and stretch the picture to full screen (example: MPC-HC)

For games DDD Tridef supports it using side by side mode, just enable the spanned desktop before launching the Tridef control panel so that Tridef detects the spanned desktop resolution

iZ3D had support in alpha stage, you had to activate it by tweaking the config files : see this page at iZ3D forums for details

Some games also natively support this mode like Trine 2, Sonic Generations (although that's an accident from the 3DTV Side by Side mode forcing 16:9 rendering aspect ratio), Trackmania Nations (FREE) (lots of bugs, hide the interface with the keypad * key), Trackmania² Canyon (still lots of menu bugs but the latest version fixes many issues so the game is playable and looks really good with the interface on)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/30#post_22359852
> 
> 
> Here is our latest offering with the kits. the GeoBox G-501 video processor, 3D demultiplexor with screen warping ability as well as many other functions in one box. perfect match for the Omega DD3D passive system.


Hello Motorman,

I am still looking for an answer to my critical question.

I havee been waiting for a very long time for a demultiplexor box that can do frame-packing 1080p 60Hz at full resolution. (using DisplayPort's 3D mode or Hdmi 1.4a full 3GHz bandwidth instead of the usual 1080p24 minimum spec).

The specs don't claim it but there's a DisplayPort input on it so I'm really curious.

Is the Geobox my dream box ?


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## Callsign_Vega

That is what I was afraid of. The frame-syncing disparity between the two outputs for computer gaming sounds like a deal breaker. And $2k-$4k video cards that can do frame locking and are slower than their $500 mainstream counterparts in gaming is unreasonable.


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Callsign_Vega*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/30#post_22364810
> 
> 
> That is what I was afraid of. The frame-syncing disparity between the two outputs for computer gaming sounds like a deal breaker. And $2k-$4k video cards that can do frame locking and are slower than their $500 mainstream counterparts in gaming is unreasonable.


Then the eyefinity hack is your solution (just like mine). I use a Radeon HD7970.

When properly connected (identical outputs at the back of the card) the two eye views are properly synchronized.

(will edit the previous post, I forgot to tell about that very important point)


I'd like to insist on this one little thing :


> Quote:
> Be extra careful to provide absolutely identical settings for both projectors, the ATi drivers are very picky about it : if it finds a single difference between the outputs it will either break V-sync or will de-synchronize them (resolution, framerate, bit depth, AND, output plug, converter, projector model). ATi claims they have fixed this problem in a recent driver update, I haven't tested it, but even if it worked It's a very sensitive thing that might break at the next driver version/ next card model. So I'll just stick to identical outputs all the way through.


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## Callsign_Vega

So if say I use a 7970, I set each projector to it's own half of Eyefinity and use Tridef, will the 3D work perfectly Synced in all games? IE: not having to jump through a ton of hoops to get it to work. Do the GPU outputs have to be identical (IE 2x DVI)? I don't see any 7970's that have 2x HDMI outputs and only a few have dual DVI outputs. As far as I know HDMI is the same video signal as DVI, but not sure the timings would get screwed up if using 1x HDMI and 1x DVI port on the 7970 or if it's best to stick with a 7970 that has 2x DVI that can be adapted to HDMI for projector use.


Do you know if all of this plays nice with AMD Crossfire?


EDIT: One more thing, is it pretty much required to get projectors with lens shift since the projectors have to be stacked? It's pretty hard to find 1080P DLP projectors (for the smooth motion), that have lens shift and low input lag. I can only find one projector that has lens shift and low input lag, but it's LCD. (Epson 8350). Input lag is a huge concern for a computer gaming 3D setup. Most projectors are horrid when it comes to input lag.


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## BlackShark

I previously had an HD5870. I used dual DVI with DVI -> Hdmi passive converters. It was in perfect sync, every time, 100% of the time.

I tried a combination mixing DVI and Hdmi or DisplayPort, it screwed up the sync

In my secondary PC, I had an HD6850, it worked identically to the HD5870, just less performance.


In January of this year (2012) I upgraded to my current HD7970 (nice performance boost), I encountered the output problem though : there are only one DVI and one Hdmi outputs, but there are two mini-DPs.

I had an active mini-DP->DVI in the GPU box, but no matter what combination of Hdmi, mini-DP, DVI and even VGA I tried I could not get proper sync (yes I also have a DP->VGA converter)

I then bought an additional active mini-DP->DVI converter (not the same brand as the one provided in the box, but I suspect they use the same stuff inside), so that I could do dual mini-DP -> DVI -> Hdmi, and the sync worked perfectly again.


Regarding Crossfire.

Sorry I do not have multi-GPU.

I know for sure that iZ3D does not support multi-GPU since I've been following their forums for years people kept asking for crossfire support and got the same answer all the time ("it's not supported yet but we're working on it"), right until they announced their bankruptcy

I don't know about tridef, I don't think they do but I could be wrong. I think ATi made some announcements about that when they released the HD7970 but at that time it only worked under very specific conditions, I guess only for native 3D games using HD3D ouptuts, not Tridef.


My projectors are Epson LCDs, I have the European version of the 8100, the model just before the 8350 (it's called EH-TW3500 on this side of the Atlantic).

Using keystone won't break the 3D, but it will degrade resolution exactly like in 2D.

If you are like me and want true 1080p, then keystone is simply not an option and you'll want lens shift. Using lens shift also makes setting up the picture easier than using keystone since you will be able to tweak each axis of freedom independently. With my Epson projectors I tried both side/by side and stacked configurations, they both work. The lens shift ability of these projectors is flexible enough to accommodate almost any situation. I'm really sad that the newer models didn't inherit of this magnificent lens shift ability.

They work approximately okay with the Omega filters for LCD, but not perfect. I find myself very often frustrated about the colour output. And the brightness cut compared to using polarised filters is significant (I mean the special polarised filters designed to work with the cross-polarised primaries, even if the colours aren't perfect with polarised and ghosts a bit, at least they're the same in both eyes).


I haven't looked at new projector models recently, but as far as my experience goes, if you want to use Omega filters (on a screen similar to mine ~106"), 2000lumen is the absolute minimum you'd want, I strongly recommend a beefier photon canon.


----------



## Vaan Janne

Would´t it just be easier to output side by side from graphic card and use something like optoma 3dxl or similar box to split the signal to 2 streams than fiddle around with

drivers ect to get the 2 seperate outputs to work without problems and unnessisery fiddling ??

just wondering, course i know how everything with desktop computer relating to audio, video experiences just goes to hell usually when you just wan´t to sit down and

enjoy a movie... you find your self setting up the system for an hour or two. and as the fury grows, you eventually don´t want to watch the movie anymore when you

finally get it playing. or you are just too hyped up in anger that you can´t relax no more.


- just wondering -


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## Vaan Janne

question for motoman !


I see the polarization option no good because of the crostalk (little crostalk is unwatchable) but i think the problem is just white on black.

could you make omega filtters that could use with polarization filtters to cut the highs and lows so we could have near zero crosstalk +

the benefits of polarisation as being the great colours, atleast for lcd projectors.


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## Callsign_Vega

That box would be no good for computer gaming. Using two separate outputs on the video card allows 60 Hz image to each projector. This allows 1080P/60Hz to each eye. A box like that would cut it down to 30 Hz per eye and add input lag.


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## motorman45

image here


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## l88bastard

I just ordered two Viewsonic 8200pros and the Omega kit from Amazon.com


I have no idea how well these are gonna work since they don't have lens shift, but I love 3D gaming, so I plan on hooking these up to my 7970 MSI lightnings and giving it a go.


I shall report my findings


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## motorman45

image here


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## l88bastard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22368860
> 
> 
> These look like great projectors and will work perfectly with the omega filter set. just make a good mount and mount the projection filters well and at a 90 deg angle to the image beam that is usually ~5 - 7 deg pointing up from the projectors. let us know how it all works for you.



Ya, I figure a visit to Home Depot will be in order...I'm probably going to angle the projectors down 5-7 degrees which should work out well with the filters, but just in case I will probably incorporate the "door hinge" mount for the filters. I have my eye on the BenQW6000s, but I wanna test the waters with these first. I have been very impressed with mainstream DLP 3D, but the cons of 720P resolutions, washed out colors and dim lighting has always been too overwhelming


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

how would this look like if calibrated from projector ?


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## motorman45

image here


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## l88bastard

I found the perfect shelf system @ Target for $11 and matched it with $8 clips from Ebay, which is important because I needed something to hold the filters infront of the lenses. Because these projectors shoot their beam at like a 5 degree upward angle I needed something to hold the filters just right. After looking at $200-$600 solutions I found these clips mentioned in the AVS supertthread and they work great as you can see in the following pic.


This is the best 3D I have ever seen. Both projectors are able to produce full 60hz 1080P and the filters allow each eye to only see what each projector displays. There is no crosstalk, colors are excellent and brightness is perfect, which is amazing considering I am projecting on a WALL!!! Mafia II and Skryim look amazing in 3D on this setup. I have the naked mod on in Skryim and my Hot Nude female character was popping out of the 90" screen like a hologram!!!!


(I never realized her nipples were so big







)


I have tried many, many types of 3D displays and setups, but hands down The Omega 3D system and DLP projectors are the way to go if you want outstanding crosstalk free 3D while retaining the most picture quality and POP










Unfortunately I am having strange problems with BF3 and Crysis 1. Basically, to get 3D, I created a 3840x1920 eyefinity group and have SBS parallel mode selected in TridefDDD. Mafia II and Skryim work perfectly when I select 1920x1080p in game options, but battlefield and Crysis 1 do not.


When I select 1920x1080 in battlefield, one of my eyes shows windows desktop and the other shows the game in 1920x1080p but it shows a split squished image. In order to get 3D with Crysis and BF3 I gotta select 3840x1080 but that gives me super squished 3D as it compresses 3840 down to 1920










I made a thread over at Tridef DDD and sent a support request to their staff. Hopefully a solution can be found.
















I even tried stacking my dogs, but that still did not help BF3 or Crysis 1


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## Vaan Janne

i see only lcd filtters sold on ebay, are the filtters now compatible with both, lcd and dlp ?



Anyone not finding omega filtters good for their purposes im interested on changin omega filtters for high quality linear polarizers, send me private message.


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## motorman45

image here


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## ldelie

I'm late in jointing this thread.


I am familiar with the Dolby system. I have used it, on a test basis.


I am familiar with dual projectors; I run a homemade 3D system I made for a community theater using Real circular polarizers, dual projectors, and a 25' wide silvered screen since October 2010. It's big enough that I have 100 pair of glasses....


I did NOT know about the Omega system. Now it looks like the rug has been pulled out. Does anyone have any contacts where I could get a few dozen pair of glasses and some filters to try this out? I also run a 3D Drive-In (summer only) and I can tell you polarization doesn't do too well through windshields. Besides, I have an idea system to test with.


I do use DDD for the theater by the way. I do wish they would support a thrid display as a terminal view... perhaps someday.


Any contacts I can get would be appreciated. I doubt very much all the glasses were sold.


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## ldelie

BTW, my current theater is at www.friendsfamilytheater.com


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## motorman45

image here


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## ldelie

I have differing projectors depending on the application. For the Drive-In I use a Christie LW40 with a long throw lens. I'm looking for a second, but the lenses for large venue Sanyo based projectors are very expensive. For the 3D, I have been using a matched pair of Proxima 9270's. They are a LOT dimmer (2500 vs. 4000 lumens) but in a real theater situation, they are bright enough. I use a pair of 4" circular polarizers (square, plastic), and Real glasses. There are guidelines on lumens per square inch of filter for projection, and with the 4000 lumen projector I would be at the limt. The screen was donated; it is 25' wide and 16' high, and $7 US a square foot. Without a silvered screen, Real won't work. The low cost of Real glasses was what pushed me that direction instead of Dolby/Infitec or the Korean company with 6 color Anaglyph (I can't remember that company name). When you work with the tiny budget, you use what you can afford. I find about 5% of my glasses are damaged each showing. The rest are machine washed and reused. I assume your glasses are washable too. They are expensive enough.







The system you are selling has is interesting, but expensive.


I am curious of any more info on your system. Papers on the system, or a patent would tell a lot. I tried to patent a general multi-color anaglyph photo system, but they only granted it for auto use. Hey, it's Ford; what can you expect. It worked OK for Dolby. US20090033910 if you want a look.


Larry Elie


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89

So I've got a question, a couple weeks a go I went to a 3D movie at a (former?) IMAX, to see Tornado Alley 3D (somewhat disappointing IMO). But they were using a Dolby 3D system, and I was less than impressed with that:

It seemed to have color shift depending on how you looked through the glasses.

The glasses didn't fit well and I had to hold up.

The lenses in the glasses were too small.


Basically if I had my eye glasses on, they wouldn't stay high enough on my face so I'd have to hold them up, and the added distance from my eyes meant they were actually too small to fit the whole screen. So I actually watched most of the movie without my eye glasses (my astigmatism is slight enough that I don't need glasses but I have them for important stuff like watching movies







).


I guess I'm kind of curious how the Omega DD3D compares, does the color appear different as you look around the glasses (different angles to the glass/filters)? Looking at the pictures on Amazon, it looks like there's some color shift towards the edges.

How do the glasses physically compare to Dolby 3D glasses, they look similar, similarly small glass and similarly uncomfortable perhaps?


I'm mainly curious because I keep hearing good things here on AVS, and forgive me if someone already did this more practical (as opposed to the technical explanation earlier in the thread) comparison.



Oh, and any though about making some glasses with both left and both right filters to allow the dual-fullscreen multiplayer gaming that people are starting to talk about?


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22423712
> 
> 
> not sure what you mean about both left and both right for gaming. do you mean so one can watch a 3D in 2D ?



There's been talk from a few manufacturers this year of flat panels implementing "full screen" multiplayer modes. Since those TVs are active, they basically take two fullscreen feeds and alternate them, and then in the glasses, instead of alternating each eye, they flash both at the same time, so two people can play side by side, but each see their own full screen image. It would actually be more compatible with a dual projector setup, since you could just run two sources, one to each projector, and then you each just wear the correct filters for your projector and you both get a full screen instead of a split screen.


> Quote:
> that is easily done by swithching a set of lenses.



Cool to know, not that I'll probably do it since I'd need a second Xbox and an extra copy of whatever games.


I was thinking when I saw the info on the new Acer K750 that a dual K750+DD3D system could be a pretty sweet, and relatively inexpensive system.


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## motorman45

image here


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## ldelie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22422856
> 
> 
> the Christie is a great unit if you could find another, the throw is somewhat important with our filter system, its best at a 2:1 ratio, it can work in shorter throw down to 1.5:1 but you can get slight edge color variation in short throw setups.
> 
> i realize that polarizers are appealing due to the price of glasses, with our chromatic 3d system one dosnt need a silver screen saving one there, the glasses are designed to be washed in a dishwasher. just dont have hard water. the lenses are anneled saftey glass with the dielectric coating on them. the glasses should last a very long time.
> 
> here is a couple of videos that have some info.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWf_69xHW0
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziuTZQx7dg
> 
> the system is a ten band chromatic separation filter system that has even energy balance, total extiction , no ghosting and full color in each eye depending on the projector source. with the xenon lamps you have it will function very well.
> 
> i have never seen the Korean 6 band sysem. i will have to look for that. as for your patent its interesting but im not sure i understand it. i guess i would need to understand the spectral performance to see how it works. very cool though.
> 
> setting you up with a 100 sets of glasses could be done reasonably. if youd like to try it the kit would get you there and we could work out something for more glasses. PM me if you like.
> 
> B



In house (indoor) theater is 25' wide at 48' projection distance. I can't change that. We already have the silver screen. BTW, I've been doing theater for 11 years and this is my 4th real theater screen. Silver screens are FRAGILE! They scratch EASILY! They have lifetime issues; 1/2 brightness in 10 years. But, I still already have one.

Can you tell me the 10 band widths? I ran a Cary photo spectrometer on the Dolby glasses (part of the patent), and have good band pass data on their 6 colors. That's how the patent works; I match the illumination to the right and left bands; assume there is no other illumination-- vola; instant 3D photo with one camera. The patent search is also how I ran into the Korean system, which appeared to be full theatrical. I can find the data at work. I could have a Cary run on your glasses or filter if you like.


My lenses are 3" to 4" OD; your filter appears smaller. That's a light loss issue. Again, do you or do you not have issues with filter life at high lumens per square inch?


Down the road; say 5 years... I will never afford the Kodak laser projection system, but Sony demonstrated a small scale laser system to the OEM's. To even see if you have a chance with such a system, you need to publish your band pass data, for each eye. I suspect the Kodak will hurt Dolby's future unless they can match the spectra to each eye. Your system will be even harder to match.


We might want to cary some of these to private e-mail; your call. My home e-mail is [email protected] My work e-mail is [email protected]


We might be able to pull some of this off.


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22424195
> 
> 
> that sounds like a very cool setup. i had not seen that. it would be very easy to make a system like that with my filters. no crosstalk at all would give amazing two player viewing on the same screen. i will look into that.



The first thing that came to my mind though, is "what about the audience? When I get a chance to game side by side with someone, it's usually a group over to eat, play some games and watch a movie and probably half the fun is watching other people play, with split screen viewers can see both players but with a "2x2D" setup they'd either see both (no glasses and unwatchable) or only one, seems like you'd really need a third display almost










Anyway, that's OT.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22425062
> 
> 
> i feel LED is the way personally.



Speaking of, have you had a chance to try your filters with any of the LED DLPs out there?


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## motorman45

image here


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## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22425833
> 
> 
> as far al the current LED, no i have not tried them as they are not good as color and if they use the 3 LED/RGB setup it wont work well with my filters



Are you talking the Phlatlight based ones? I'm guessing the "not good" color you're talking about is the oversaturated gamut (which is easily tamed with a CMS) that puts the peak output outside of the passbands of your filters?


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## trgraphics

I already have the filters and glasses. Can I purchase the VNS Geobox G-501 seperately? Cost?


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

has anyone tried with 2 different projectors ?

i just ask course i have panasonic ax-200 and i was wondering if it would be more wise to buy the second

beamer newer model like pt-ae4000 (fullHD) and run it 720p with the ax-2000. course most of the movies

you watch it 2D.

And one has to do color correction anyway, to get the left and right matching in colors.

And color correction is much bigger with LCD, than DLP ? (motoman)


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## motorman45

image here


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## redhorse72

I bought the system from eBay 2 weeks ago, and they are amazing. I have Optoma HD 20 and HD200x mounted on the ceiling one on top of the other. I just can't make them aligned 100%, just probably 90%. Are you successful aligning them perfectly? And what is your settings for each projector to work best on these filters?


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## motorman45

image here


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## redhorse72

Is there a recommended angle or distance when mounting the filters in front of the projectors' lens? Thanks a lot for all the info. This 3d system changed my perception on 3d entertainment! Watched 2 movies with my wife without straining our eyes. I even feel relaxed after watching.!


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## sanderdvd

Is this system different then the 3D-Evolver? http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm


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## jmcguire525




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22713170
> 
> 
> Is this system different then the 3D-Evolver? http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm



This system would work WITH the 3D Evolver, all the Evolver is doing is splitting the source into two HDMI feeds, one for the "left" projector and one for the "right".... Its nothing new and its way overpriced.


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmcguire525*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22713229
> 
> 
> This system would work WITH the 3D Evolver, all the Evolver is doing is splitting the source into two HDMI feeds, one for the "left" projector and one for the "right".... Its nothing new and its way overpriced.


thanks for your reply. But the big advantage of the 3D-Evolver is that it support Dolby 3D now so I could use it on my regular 1.0 Gain screen not?

What are the same but cheaper products then the 3D-Evolver?


The reason I m thinking about this is because I own a Sony HW50 atm but I don t like the dim picture and flickering. Could a second HW50 projector with a passive system solve the issues (flicker and brightness) I have?


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## motorman45

image here


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## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22713447
> 
> 
> as far as i can tell the 3d evolver is just a demultiplexer. and dose not have image alignment / warping ability. the 3D Evolver is no more able to make Dolby 3D function correcty than anything else. there is no access to the projection filters that are key in making Dolby 3D workwith the glasses at all and Dolby 3D still fails in many ways as a 3D system especially with UHP projectors
> 
> . read the other thread here about peoples experiance with Dolby... or do you mean that Dolby glasses free thing that dose not exist as of yet. ? or the audio Dolby 3D ???
> 
> the Geobox i have been using has digital audio out split off from the HDMI and is more than capable of passing any form of audio
> 
> no matter how you put together a dual projector system it will be far better than shutter glasses.


So what will I need for a passive dual projector setup (besides 2x a Sony HW50 which I already have)? And will the colors be perfect? I ve read that there are some problems with not displaying correct colors? And what is the disadvantage of using 2x a Sony HW50 (which is lcos) instead of 2x a DLP pj?


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## motorman45

image here


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## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22714630
> 
> 
> with the sony lcos system most any chromatic 3d system will not be perfect. dolby system will suffer the worst as two of their 6 spectral bands will be all but eliminated by the deep spectral notches in the sony lcos system making color balance nearly impossible. the omega filter system fars much better with these systems but it will not be perfect. DLP projectors tend to have a more full spectral output and make for far better color balance. jvc projectors that are lcos also suffer from the same issue as sony. a polarizing system will work better here but you will have some ghosting and need a silver screen.
> 
> i have been using two optoma hd20's with great results and no need for a gain screen. the images in this post were from those. nothing wrong with the 3d evolver but for the price it dose not do nearly as much as the geobox. the image alignment is fantastic and makes 2d with both projectors look great. again the images i posted are just that.


Thanks for your reply. I know for sure I m going to be bothered with the black level of a dual HD20 setup so that is not an option for me. What if you want inky black levels (like the JVC and Sony HW50/VW95 produce) but also have a flickerfree and ghosting free picture, is that something that is simply not possible for under 10K atm? ( I know you can solve this all by getting yourself a SIM2 3D SOLO which does tripple flask 144Hz but this one will cost 30-40K).


What I also would like to know: a passive system would eliminate flickering correct? How does it eliminate flickering? Is it some kind of system that does 3:2 pulldown and show @60Hz per eye? Or is it just the non-shutter glasses that take care of a picture without flickering?


----------



## jmcguire525




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22721522
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I know for sure I m going to be bothered with the black level of a dual HD20 setup so that is not an option for me. What if you want inky black levels (like the JVC and Sony HW50/VW95 produce) but also have a flickerfree and ghosting free picture, is that something that is simply not possible for under 10K atm? ( I know you can solve this all by getting yourself a SIM2 3D SOLO which does tripple flask 144Hz but this one will cost 30-40K).
> 
> What I also would like to know: a passive system would eliminate flickering correct? How does it eliminate flickering? Is it some kind of system that does 3:2 pulldown and show @60Hz per eye? Or is it just the non-shutter glasses that take care of a picture without flickering?



A passive system will eliminate flicker only if it is displaying both images at the same time, which dual projectors do. There is also a way to make a single projector passive with a z-screen, this method still has flicker.


The cheapest alternative to the 3D Evolver would be 2 Optoma 3D-XL boxes, I have them for sale in the classifieds section but with shipping charges it may be easier for you to get them locally. If you have the money then get the Geobox.


----------



## BlackShark

I'd choose different words : I wouldn't say a passive system eliminates flicker, I'd take the opposite approach and say passive systems avoid creating flicker by not doing stuff that creates it.


The source of all flicker is dark time between frames. The more dark time, the more flicker. The problem with active systems is that they have to create at least 50% dark time in each eye in order to create the 3D effect (they split the light between the eyes over time). The higher refresh rate is there to split these dark times over multiple frames so that you don't get a too long dark time in a row. You'll notice less flicker if you see two short dark times than one long one.

Passive dual projectors avoid this completely, since each projector is 100% dedicated to an eye they don't create new flicker.

This doesn't mean they do not have any flicker at all, because dark times do exist on 2D projectors : Film projectors have a shutter, DLP projectors have a colour wheel which acts like a shutter for each individual primary colour (the source of RBE artefacts with DLP projectors if not fast enough), LCD projectors sometimes emulate a virtual shutter by transitioning to black every frame to reduce the blur effect of LCD projectors (my epson projectors have an option to do that with 2:2 pulldown in 24Hz mode).

Most people don't even know about it because these dark times are designed to be short enough so that people don't notice any flicker in 2D presentations.


So to try to make it more simple, i'll say that :

-passive dual projection keeps the flicker the same in 3D as in 2D. If your projector doesn't flicker in 2D, it won't in 3D

-active projection will create more flicker in 3D than in 2D. It might be fine in 2D but flicker in 3D.


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## spectrogj



It seems that extensive research has been done to develop the 3D capabilities of the Omega System.

And even the correction for LCD users has been addressed.

I don't think anyone will make the DIY'r system that much better unless you are willing to step up to cinema projectors.

The passive dual projector solution seems the best for extinction and clear 3d and 2d images.

The color balance is very important but not as extremely critical as everyone thinks.

Each eye will experience some color shift difference due to wavelength, but I have yet to see where it matters that much, you don't watch 3D with one eye.

trying to make exact, perfect colors seems to be a little misunderstood.

I know computer servers that address color correction are out there but the cost is outrageous and is not for the retail consumer, but the theater, and they don't get it right all the time either.

The 3D effect is way more important than small color variations that are negligible in content viewing.


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## BlackShark

Different people will have different priorities. A colour guru will never be happy with Omega unless it's a Xenon lamp.

But there is quite a difference between "it's only 99% accurate so i'm not happy" and "hey ! something is really wrong with this picture"

My experience with the Omega system and consumer LCD projector is closer to the latter than the former. The LCD special filters do help but can't do miracles.


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## motorman45

image here


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## jo2k

Happy New Year everyone!


After coming across to this thread, I decided instead of trading up my Sanyo PLV-Z2000 (LCD) for a better single projector capable of 3D, I'll get an identical unit (~$500 only) and take the Omega DD3D route. Very happy to do away the active shutter glasses, the impossible color correction with Dolby, and most of all a silver screen!


Motorman, could you please confirm that the small filter set on Amazon is sufficiently large for PLV-Z2000 (a DIY mount will be made to have them right in front of the lenses)? In the spec the filters are described to be *55 X 35 mm, with mounting border* - I take it that the border will be in addition to the 55 x 35 mm? Thanks very much in advance!


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## motorman45

image here


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## jo2k

Thanks Motorman! I just did an img size mock-up on a piece of paper close to the lens, 55 x 35 mm will work. Interesting that you brought up the aligning filter 90 deg to img point - I'll be doing a horizontal side by side set up since Sanyo PLV Z200 does come with lens shift... now I am excited...


----------



## Rugrash

Today I tried Nvidias 3D Vision Discover just to get a fresh idea of what it was like to use it, since it had been years since I had. I remember it worked ok, but not great due to the fact that I could never match the colors of the glasses to Nvidias output. I was more curious as to what is being called eye rivalry in the Omega Stereoscopic offering and if I'd experience it using their red/cyan set-up.


Well it seemed to me that the biggest factor was the lack of extinction between the images, besides of course color do to the limitations of such a basic format.


So it seems to me that although I have a 720P LED DLP projector that is not optimal for your filters, that I could still get a fairly enjoyable experience from them due to the claim of 99% extinction. Being that both the lenses and glasses are optimally calibrated to each other.


So the only factor would be a small or moderate loss of color . Which I'm willing to live with in order to ditch the shutter glasses.


So before I buy your system, I'm curious if eye rivalry due to color inbalance becomes a big issue if using a budget LED PJ like the PLED-W500. I would think with good extinction, that it wouldn't matter.


I plan on just gaming, so if the colors aren't as good as in 2D, I'll live.


I do have to say that my projector is a lot of fun for 2D gaimg. I can input a pseudo 2560[email protected] image into it that looks great. It will also accept a full [email protected] signal but due to the diamond pixels of DMD 0.45 chip it uses, text is unreadable unless magnified by 200%. Both are done via VGA.


One other thing, what's minimum Hz output that will work with your system. I can get [email protected] per eye frame sequential to enable but the shutter glasses do not activate. I can due pseudo 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 at 120Hz, but pseudos are a no go for 3D and even 2D at that Hz will not enable in games.


----------



## Rugrash

Oh, and before anyone says it. I know the PLED-W500 is not a 1080P projector and that it not even 720P for that matter. It's got some ungodly low pixel count like 1100x900 or something, but regardless it is capable of some decent images and is great for gaming due to the image conversions it does.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Rugrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *l88bastard*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22368808
> 
> 
> I just ordered two Viewsonic 8200pros and the Omega kit from Amazon.com
> 
> I have no idea how well these are gonna work since they don't have lens shift, but I love 3D gaming, so I plan on hooking these up to my 7970 MSI lightnings and giving it a go.
> 
> I shall report my findings





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *l88bastard*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/60#post_22392022
> 
> 
> This is the best 3D I have ever seen. Both projectors are able to produce full 60hz 1080P and the filters allow each eye to only see what each projector displays. There is no crosstalk, colors are excellent and brightness is perfect, which is amazing considering I am projecting on a WALL!!! Mafia II and Skryim look amazing in 3D on this setup.
> 
> 
> I have tried many, many types of 3D displays and setups, but hands down The Omega 3D system and DLP projectors are the way to go if you want outstanding crosstalk free 3D while retaining the most picture quality and POP



Yes, I'm fully aware that the omega system is not red/cyan, it's as you described a "Super Anaglyph ".


I'm also aware that red/cyan in no way (not even close), compares to the quality obtainable with your system when paired with optimal or even non-optimal projectors.


It's the above two posts that have me strongly considering going with your filters, even though my projector is in no way ideal.


Can you tell me if the effect suffers at low frame rates?


ATM I can afford your filters and a second projector, but unfortunately, not a second GPU.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Master Chef

I have a Mitsubishi HC1600 which I am still happy with, but have been longing to do a passive 3d system for some time now. I thought I would try to find another hc1600 cheap, but it is surprisingly hard. So I noticed that the Acer h5360 (new) can be had pretty cheap (as cheap as a used hc1600!). So I was thinking it would be fun to try to pair the acer up with my mits, and that would be a neat way to compare Omega's passive system to the 5360's shutterbox.


My friend has a 60" Mitsubishi rear projection tv and the 3d is ok, but not spectacular. I love going to the movie theater (imax in particular) and watching 3d movies. I would love to get more of that movie theater experience at home.


I am planning on picking up two 3d-xl's for this project.


So basically, I would like to confirm that two different DLP projectors can work with the Omega system with favorable results, if the images can be successfully aligned?


----------



## frankwang90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/90#post_22554159
> 
> 
> ive been told i can sell the Geoboc G-501 for $1299 if anyone is interseted. the image alignemnt tool is well worth the price alone aside from beign a really good demultiplexer. it will do 1080p 60hz per eye as well. we will be dropping the price of the bundles we offered and i am building some rack mounted systems complete or without projectors



Motorman,


I have long followed the thread and bookmarked the following ebay link before but when I looked at it again today, the item is already gone. Is this Geobox G-501 still available for sale? and has the price of the bundles (including the Geo box, filters and 12 glasses) been reduced based on the above statement?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-demultiplexer-Omega-passive-3D-kit-w-small-filters-VNS-Geobox-G-501-/310464322397?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item48491d9b5d 


Thanks,


----------



## JaMiR

Someone all ready consider using two BenQ W1070 DLP's? Quite bright when calibrated, vertical lens shift, 1080P DC3 rgbrgb color wheel and you can get two of them under 2000$.

Review


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Rugrash

Warpalizing and Blending is required for curved and/or panoramic screens.


If you are projecting on a flat screen, it would not be needed if you had a projector with optical lens shift/keystoning.


Even if you used the GeoBox for screen alignment on a digital lens shift/keystoning projector, it would not improve any image reduction that occurs as a result.


It will however help to correct inevitable minor misalignments.


While it can correct greater misalignments, this also comes at the cost of image reduction due to digital processing.


The image misalignment on the youtube video I'm pretty certain was over exaggerated for demonstration purposes of the Geobox 501's capabilities.


If you are using a PC, warpalizing and edge blending software can be puchased as a stand alone product if you find it necessary to have.


As far as a demuxer, two 3D-XLs are quite capable of most needs concerning video. Not so much for gaming.


The only hardware supporting [email protected] framepacking output over HDMI at the moment is the 7000 series AMD Radeon GPUs as far as I know.


So the VIP 3D Evolver is in my opinion an overpriced/overkill soloution and the same can be said for the GeoBox with the price increase.


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## JaMiR

I'm going to order small Omega 3D kit. Is this link right place to order this kit or should i buy it from ebay or some other place?


----------



## Rugrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/120#post_22812388
> 
> 
> I'm going to order small Omega 3D kit. Is this link right place to order this kit or should i buy it from ebay or some other place?



Yes, provided you are using a DLP Projector.


If it's LCD I think you'll have to get it from e-bay.


BTW motorman you need to relist or change the tags on Amazon, so the if a person types in Omega 3D they get a result.


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## spectrogj

If you type "Omega passive 3D "

it is on the first page


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## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/120#post_22811948
> 
> 
> Warpalizing and Blending is required for curved and/or panoramic screens.
> 
> 
> If you are projecting on a flat screen, it would not be needed if you had a projector with optical lens shift/keystoning.
> 
> 
> Even if you used the GeoBox for screen alignment on a digital lens shift/keystoning projector, it would not improve any image reduction that occurs as a result.
> 
> 
> It will however help to correct inevitable minor misalignments.
> 
> 
> While it can correct greater misalignments, this also comes at the cost of image reduction due to digital processing.
> 
> 
> The image misalignment on the youtube video I'm pretty certain was over exaggerated for demonstration purposes of the Geobox 501's capabilities.
> 
> 
> If you are using a PC, warpalizing and edge blending software can be puchased as a stand alone product if you find it necessary to have.
> 
> 
> As far as a demuxer, two 3D-XLs are quite capable of most needs concerning video. Not so much for gaming.
> 
> 
> The only hardware supporting [email protected] framepacking output over HDMI at the moment is the 7000 series AMD Radeon GPUs as far as I know.
> 
> 
> So the VIP 3D Evolver is in my opinion an overpriced/overkill soloution and the same can be said for the GeoBox with the price increase.



i agree one dose not always need image warping/ digital alignment for most dual projector setups but it makes the image a bit better . all my first tests were with a pc and video card and no image warping ability and they looked great even without lens shift or keystone adjustments. the alignment video we made was greatly exagerated to show the function of the geobox and like the photos i posted here with poth projectors on and filters in place the 2D performance was great with the fine tuned alignment. there is a cost to the actual pixels used when a lot of adjustment is used but its pretty minor. a large miss alignement may give you 2.02 mega pixels on the screen instead of 2.07 for a pair of 1080 native projectors.


a good option would be a demux in one box that cost under $700, no fancy adjustments just demltiplex and have audio outs ?? right i may be able to help in that area.


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## motorman45

image here


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## jo2k

Hi Motorman, any word on the GeoBox G301? - would love to get a bundle on that with Omega DD3D LCD pkg now that my 2nd PLV-Z2000 is on its way. G501 is a overkill for me (also out of budget range...). thx!


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Master Chef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/120#post_22822975
> 
> 
> i can get them but the cost is actuallu more than the 501 at this point. they both have geometric correction. the more affordable version is the 201. it dose not have geometric correction but is an all in one demux. i am working on getting that as an option.



Is the 201 available for purchase? Where can one pick it up?


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## motorman45

image here


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## Master Chef

I need to get this set up going soon, so I am going to go with a 3DXL x 2 set up, but I am not sure what I need for an hdmi splitter. Amplified? Sync'ing? Will just any splitter work? I've spent an hour trying to search the forum, but I either don't know the right question, or I am overlooking something. Please help?


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## motorman45

image here


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## Rugrash

It's hard to beat 2 Optoma 3D-XLs, since they have been selling for $215 quite often and also include a good pair of DLP Link glasses.


You'll only need an amplified splitter if the cable run from your source to the 3D-XL is over 15ft, even at 25ft you might not need one.


You do want to make sure that you get one with enough bandwidth to pass the signal to your demultiplexers.


Once the signal reaches the 3D-XL and is demultiplexed, it comes out as a new signal. So you are good for another 15-25ft.


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## zorg43x

hello motorman45, can you get me more info on the 201 geobox? i need just a simple L/R separation-demuxing. i hope it will be low-budget since the optomas are quite expensive for what they can offer for me... thank you!


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## Master Chef

I got my Omega 3D kit in the mail yesterday, and played around a little bit with them before going to bed (I thought I could slap the system together in about an hour, but four hours later I finally made it to bed!). I am just testing the water, so to speak, so I can make a decision on how I want to have my permanent display set up--and I also promised a friend that I would build him a 3D theater as well. This is (keep in mind its only a test run!) my set up:
Code:


Code:


[CODE]-->3D-XL--->Mitsubishi HC1600
                            /
3D Bluray-->HDMI splitter--3D-XL--->Acer H5360

[/CODE]
First impression: when I finally had everything all put together, I found myself believing that the Omega 3D is going to prove to be far superior to shutterbox technology.


To be honest, I was less than satisfied with the results I achieved, but that is simply because of how different my projectors are. My five year old HC1600 just can't hang with my new Acer H5360 as far as brightness and color goes, and the Acer doesn't even compare with the placement flexibility of my HC1600 (the HC1600 has two dimensions of keystone correction, while the Acer's is a complete joke). So it took some finesse to get the images lined up, and when I did, getting color and brightness to match was unattainable for my skill set. True to what motorman told me, I found that the left Omega filter was too much for the HC1600, but the right filter did a decent job. Both filters seemed to work ok for the Acer. But even finding the best filter combination left me with much to be desired as far as color/brightness matching is concerned, but the two pj's were miles apart before the filters were put on. I did the best I could with matching them up, mostly by turning brightness waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the Acer.


I bought Dredd 3D for the purpose of checking out the 3D systems (the Acer paired with a single 3D-XL is a system in its own, which I played with while waiting for the Omega filters). While there was a huge gap between the two projectors in color quality, some scenes did match fairly well, and it was there that I was able to enjoy what the Omega system had to offer. A smooth, natural, deeper 3D than the damn shutterbox. I realize that it is technically not "deeper" but I *perceived* the depth better.


So while I am hopeful about the results that are possible with the Omega system, I am perplexed on where I should go from here with projectors. Two 3D theaters is a costly venture, and I was hoping to do one theater with two HC1600's, and another with two Acer H5360's. But I have severe doubts about the HC1600's performance ability--although, to be fair, the Acer is ridiculously bright and colorful, so I may find that two 1600's together may work a lot better, but I now know how much "pop" I can get with the Acers, so will I ever be satisfied? Then I have the Acer's severely limited placement flexibility. I have major doubts about getting two of those nightmares lined up. Since I have the Mits lined up pretty darn good with the Acer in its "dead even, straight forward, no tweaks" position, I can let the Mits stand in for the Acer, and move the Acer 6" higher or so, and see if I can get it lined up again. If so, then I will definitely go with two Acer's.


Anyway, I am hopeful about the Omega's potential, and pleased with what I have seen so far. My only complaint is the reflective quality of the insides of the glasses. Even with the lights off, enough light leaked into the inside of my glasses to reflect light back and forth between my prescription glasses and the Omega lenses to be at least mildly distracting, but I did not give myself a chance to get "immersed" into the movie. The IMAX glasses have a glare that I notice when I first put them off, but do not bother me much when I watch a movie, and I believe the same will be true of the Omegas.


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## Rugrash

The fact that you are getting any satisfactory results with your markedly mismatched non-optomized DLP projectors, looks promising.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Master Chef

I played with my test set-up quite a bit yesterday and did manage to get a pretty decent color match between my two oddball projectors, but there still was a lingering problem with highlights and shadow detail. Sometimes I would get a really bright highlight on one projector and not the other, and sometimes one projector would completely miss shadow detail. But I did see a whole lot of well-matched scenes, and I am excited to get matching projectors to use with the Omega system. I do think a good system could be achieved with pairs of either projector, but I am going to go ahead and order another H5360, and see what I end up with there.


My original plan was to get a couple of ViewSonic Pro8200's, but the low, low price of the Acer for the high lumens, plus shutterbox 3D, ensnared me. I am thinking that the ViewSonics would have been the better course to take heading into an Omega passive 3D system.


----------



## drlushan

can the 2 X 3d-xl, automatically switch between 2d and 3d content???

do both the 3d-xl simultaneously project for a brighter 2d ??


i am reading that the geobox 501 will do both the above!


what projector and curved silver screen ( approx 140 inches) would motorman recommend to go with geobox 501.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Rugrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drlushan*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/150#post_22894245
> 
> 
> can the 2 X 3d-xl, automatically switch between 2d and 3d content???
> 
> do both the 3d-xl simultaneously project for a brighter 2d ??
> 
> 
> i am reading that the geobox 501 will do both the above!
> 
> 
> what projector and curved silver screen ( approx 140 inches) would motorman recommend to go with geobox 501.




The point of running two projectors is to achieve passive 3D, why would you want two projectors for 2D? A higher electric bill?


If one projector is not bright enough relative to it's postion away from the screen, it will not work in 3D due to the inherent loss of lumens passing through both filters before reaching the eye.


So are we to assume that you plan on watching 2D with the filters in place?


What the GeoBox does exceptionally well is edge blending and warpalization, the 3D-Xl simply does not have it and most people do not need it. That is, unless you are using a curved screen, then it's a must.



.


----------



## drlushan

thanks rugrash for your response.


that brings up some questions that have been popping up in my mind.


we would still watch 80 % of time 2d content, even though i would like to setup for passive 3D--what do you all recommend??


1) a different screen and projector--i would really want to avoid that

2) spend money on a screen like vutec silverstar curved?? blackdiamond 2.7 gain ?? silver lite??

3) should i just switch on 1 projector??--does geobox automatically use one projector only for 2d content??

4) what is effect of polarizing filters--do they have to manually removed each time you want to view 2d--that would be a big pain!!???


i would really appreciate everyones help on this.

i am looking at 130 to 150 inch screen with 2 rows of seating. first row will be at 10-11 feet and 2nd row about 15-16 feet away.


if i go for geobox-- what screen, and projecotors and filters would you guys recommend??

thanks in advance for all the help


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## motorman45

image here


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## Rugrash

I would recommend the Omega system over the others from the information that I have gleaned from user posts as well as those from motorman45.


You could simply hinge the filtering lens on one projector and flip it up or down, using bumpstops to retain alignment.


If the projectors are not optomized, there is a slight color loss that is easily/willingly sacrificed for the 3D effect.


So if the projectors are optomized, using both for 2D with the GeoBox alignment would be OK.


If the projectors are not optomized, you'd most likely want to use a single projector and position the filtering lens out of the way so that no color is lost.


Keep in mind that when I talk about color loss, it's with non-optimal projectors. Users have reported very good results with non-optomized projectors.


But to get full color or there abouts, both projectors must be used at the same time in 2D with the Omega filter system, unless a lens is positioned out of the way for 2D viewing.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

I was just wondering, i read from somewhere the omega glasses have small lenses ?

that if you wanna watch really big picture from close you are gonna see the edges of glassed ?

im watching 133 inch (diagonal) picture from a distance of 165 inch


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

so you are telling me that if i wanna project the same 133 inch diagonally, picture it would be optimal to be thrown from 266 inch ? luckyly i can move my projectors at 216 inch away from the screen.


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## motorman45

image here


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## frankwang90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/150#post_22926083
> 
> G-201 Quick User Manual-draft.pdf 484k .pdf file



Motorman, do you have any information about the price range of the G-201 yet? If it's surely over $1,000, then I will not waste any time waiting for it and go ahead buy 2 3D-XL plus a switcher. Please do let me know. Thanks.


----------



## BlackShark

@ Vann Janne

The omega glasses lenses are small compared to other types of glasses on the market. It doesn't mean they're tiny, it just means they're just not big. (compared to polarised glasses like RealD cinema glasses for example)


The glasses should be large enough considering your screen and viewing distance to be able to see the whole picture but only with small margins. Keep in mind that the lenses edges are within your eyes field of view as if you were wearing reading glasses (they are far from the size of sun glasses)

Regarding projection ratio, I would not recommend projection ratios as low as 1.5:1, I'd say you should target a ratio as high as your projectors allow, my setup is 1.8:1, there are small colour shifts near the edges of the screen, not a major problem but visible if you look at it. If you leave the lenses on the projector while doing computer stuff, you will see Windows start menu or the windows frames being the wrong colour in the corners of the screen. So I do recommend a 2:1 projection ratio or more.

(small note : projection ratio is measured relative to the screen width, not diagonal).


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## frankwang90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/150#post_22933417
> 
> 
> $700 for the 201. not bad considering 2 3d-xls, a splitter and cables will run you almost 600. i will have a few in another week.



Good to know, now the price is more justifiable considering getting a single device solution for just a couple hundreds more.


Also have you been testing with your G-201? is there any issue or limitation?


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## Vaan Janne

Can you tell me what are the measures in mm of your filters so i can start building my filter holder. length, hight, width ? 35 X 47 mm, with mounting border. ? hows the thicknes ?


is bjomejag selling your product ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-by-Omega-Complete-Kit-for-Dual-Projectors-including-5-pairs-of-Glasses-/150955452736?pt=US_Projector_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2325a56940 

is it lcd or dlp version ?


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## motorman45

image here


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## Fritz*

@motorman,

can you tell me the light loss in % of your system (filters and glasses) by using DLP /UHP based projectors?


thank you


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## motorman45

image here


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## Fritz*

yes it helps so far,

did you compare your actual Omega flter with Infitec excellent filter series?

excellent+ series?


If yes, can you report the differences?


thank you


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## motorman45

image here


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## Fritz*

i am a customer and heard about Infitec´s actual filter series called "Excellent" and the brandnew series "Excellent+" coming this year.

Also an new Filter-wheel system for using in front of a single projector. Shown on ISE two weeks ago in Amsterdam.

This is anounced in a price range between 1200 - 2000.-€

 


infitec is not for "professional only" . They offers and sell their products and implementation service to everybody who want´s it and pay it.


----------



## spectrogj

Why spend $2000 and have to deal with a filter wheel spinning in front of your projector.

It seems the Omega Passive 3D System goes in front of the two projector lenses and each eye gets max throughput with no spinning parts, for $400, and you can watch 2D if you want without removing anything.


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## BlackShark

A 2000$ wheel may not make sense for us who use


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## aVertigo

I was searching the internet for full HD 3d projector solutions, and found this.


Read the whole thread and saw all the videos, and it looks good.


Motorman45: I read in the beginning of the thread that you built a rig with 2 x Optoma HD20 projectors. Did it work well?

I ask because I have one of them already and can get another one for a good price. I also noticed that these projectors dont have lens shift, how did you correctly overlap the picture without it?


If it works well with these projectors I'm buying


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## motorman45

image here


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## aVertigo

Thats good to hear.


Does the range from the projector to the screen matter? The distance is about 11-12 feet.

I will also have to mount the projectors upside down at this distance for the picture to be where I want it to be, is this a problem with the mounting of the filters?


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## motorman45

image here


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## aVertigo

Omega 3D kit ordered and bought another Optoma HD20!


Now the long wait begins (shipping to Norway usually takes time...)


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## motorman45

image here


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## Master Chef

I hope this doesn't seem too ridiculous to ask, and maybe not even an appropriate thread. But I am a little concerned with using two ViewSonic Pro8200's. See, I bought an Acer 5360, and planned on buying another one to use with the Omega system. But I was extremely unimpressed with the 5360's 2D performance. So I decided that I would go with two pro8200's for the Omega system. Well, my budget only allows me to buy one projector for now, and I have to wait to buy my next one. So I ordered one 8200 and paired it up with the Acer in the Omega system, but they didn't work together because the display the image a frame or two apart. I did freeze frame and slow motion (which was stunning!) but could not watch real-time video. Now my concern is will I have trouble with sync between two 8200's? Is it normal for two different brands to be off like that? Do they just make the 8200's a little slower, but all 8200's display the same?


The reason I am so concerned is because I took my Acer when I first got it and paired it up with my old 720p projector (Mits hc1600) and tried out the Omega 3D system. It looked pretty good, although it was hard to get the two drastically different projectors matched up well in brightness, contrast, shadow detail, which means that on some scenes my eyes had to fight each other. However, they sync perfectly.


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## motorman45

image here


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## frankwang90

Motorman, where do you put 201 for sale? could you post the link? thanks.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

I would ques the different input lag of the 2 different projectors might be the case if the pictures don´t sync. Well that´s just a hunch


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## philiwahnilli

I've seen, there already have been discussions using two Benq W1070 for the omega system (DLP, good brightness, lens shift). Has anyone experience with this configuration yet? I worry a little about the throw angle, as it's quite large (min, 40 degree full angle, corner-to-corner, http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-W1070-projection-calculator-pro.htm ). Will this be an issue with the filters (in terms of crosstalk in non-center image regions)?


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## motorman45

image here


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## philiwahnilli

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. Is an internal mounting of the filters a preferable choice to get best results? I mean getting the filters vertically in the light path won't be that hard (I performed a lot of successful device - surgerys).

In any filter configuration, does the back reflected light affect the lamp lifetime in some way? It seems that much light gets back into the projector and must be absorbed somewhere.


Another related thing: Concerning the demultiplexer: e.g. Geobox or Optoma 3D-XL. Is there any trouble with HDCP when watching newer blurays? Do these demuxer have an internal HDCP validation or is this signal forwarded to just one projector? I guess a PC-dual-VGA solution won't work with HDCP, even if the software player does support it!?


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## motorman45

image here


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## BlackShark

As far as I know stereoscopic player cannot playback BluRay discs directly, you have to remove the AACS protection first with a BluRay 3D ripping software, or a real-time decrypter software. Then the player can play individual files on the disc, but it doesn't work like an actual BluRay player.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

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## Cor Jansen

Can these filters be used in combination with a projector that has a fisheye mounted in fromt of it?

I understand that it will not be possible to mount the filter in front of the fisheye lens because of the width angle.

But when we could manage to put the filter somewhere inside the projector, would that work?

Or does the fisheye introduce some problems?


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## lurkor

Interesting stuff. It has been years since I played with stereoscopic player, but now I'm curious about it again.


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## motorman45

image here


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## 3dmaven

Hey all, I've been using these for a while with 2 old barco light cannons, with the filter mounted before the lens. It has been a nice system for outdoor 3d showings (every weekend during the summer). Has anyone tried mounting them inside the lamp compartment. I think many projectors have enough room in there to place the omega lens directly after the lamp. Would the system still work with such a placement? Could the lens stand up to such heat? And finally, would the Omega lens somehow reflect tons of light back into the bulb and cause it to overheat and explode prematurely? Thanks for entertaining my crazy questions. Mounting before the lens is not, however, crazy, and is an awesome choice when possible.


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## motorman45

image here


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## lurkor

It is not my intention to derail this thread, but a while ago there was a rumor of a passive conversion kit for Mitsubishi rear projection dlp's. Has anything come of this, or was it just rumor?


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## RS422

test.


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## RS422

test, sorry


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## RS422

Hi,

I plan to assemble the system on two Benq 1080 ST projectors . Can I fit your filters on their ultra-short optics? I plan view on screen ( painted wall) 7x3 metres from a distance of 4 metres.

Omegabob2 - this your account on ebay? I wrote you a question there. I need DLP filters, 5 pair glasses and user guide about alignment.


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## motorman45

image here


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## RS422

But I need 7 metres screen width. Benq1070 give 5 metres screen only ( from 6 metres distance). My room is 6x7 metres. What can I do?

I have not bought 1080 ST yet. At the moment I'm looking Benq LW61ST from a distance of 4 meters with shutter glasses...


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## motorman45

image here


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## philiwahnilli

Hi. I've got question regarding this two-projector-setup.

Commercial 3D blu rays are composed to display the 3D image on standard 3D TVs. The disparity of "far points" must not exceed 6,5cm (the average eye distance) in order to not force the eyes to diverge. This is normally not a problem with standard size TVs but with large screens. I've seen the Epson TW 6000 which handles this issue by just shifting L nad R images against each other in 3D mode (or shifting he image towards the viewer), so that far points do not cause problems.

How do you handle this issue with this DIY two projectors - system (without physically shifting them)? Does the "cheapest" demultiplexer geobox G-201 support horizontal alignment of left and right images for this 3D distance adjustment? Iv'e seen a few 3D blu ray players supporting an adjustment of the screen size for 3D but I'm not sure, if this really does effect this issue. Has anyone experience/recommendations on that? THX


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## motorman45

image here


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## ttview

So after a very long hiatus I have decided to revisit this technology to see if it is suitable for my project. The first time I encountered it I left a thought provoking post in RDJAM's "Ultimate 3D projection system" discussion thread here on page 64 with the hope that if motorman could provide the missing perspective that I referred to, then everyone would be able to realize the full potential of the omega system.


Apparently this "missing perspective" existed all along mainly in the form of this review which I only discovered from reading this thread. The information there is VERY empowering

if you understand its implications.


Since the very first time I read about the omega system I couldn't understand why it did not and still has not become the de facto standard for home theater systems with dual projectors. Now that I've read the review and seen the test results and done some calculations of my own I realize the reason is simple.

For the optimum viewing experience of 3D content using the omega system you would need projectors capable of outputting somewhere between 8000 lumens to 16, 000 lumens (depending on screen size).


That right there is the main reason why people have not gotten the best out of this system. Issues like throw distance and color balance/uniformity are secondary to the issue of projector output. Furthermore the types of projectors capable of the output required to make the best use of the omega system are also less prone to color balance and uniformity issues since these are the type of projectors the system was originally designed to be used with. These types of projectors also have throw distance ratios that are perfect for the omega system. If you can find a pair of dlp or xenon projectors that are capable of this output range I believe that 95% of all problems with the system will be gone.

For example if you are intent on a 16FL screen brightness when viewing 3d content on a high contrast (0.8 gain) large screen 16ft x 9ft (220" diagonal) then based on the test results of that review you will need 16, 000 lumen light canons to achieve such a goal. Not impossible but certainly not in the domain of cheap sub $5000 consumer home theater projectors.


----------



## sipester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ttview*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23316177
> 
> 
> So after a very long hiatus I have decided to revisit this technology to see if it is suitable for my project. The first time I encountered it I left a thought provoking post in RDJAM's "Ultimate 3D projection system" discussion thread here on page 64 with the hope that if motorman could provide the missing perspective that I referred to, then everyone would be able to realize the full potential of the omega system.
> 
> 
> Apparently this "missing perspective" existed all along mainly in the form of this review which I only discovered from reading this thread. The information there is VERY empowering
> 
> if you understand its implications.
> 
> 
> Since the very first time I read about the omega system I couldn't understand why it did not and still has not become the de facto standard for home theater systems with dual projectors. Now that I've read the review and seen the test results and done some calculations of my own I realize the reason is simple.
> 
> For the optimum viewing experience of 3D content using the omega system you would need projectors capable of outputting somewhere between 8000 lumens to 16, 000 lumens (depending on screen size).
> 
> 
> That right there is the main reason why people have not gotten the best out of this system. Issues like throw distance and color balance/uniformity are secondary to the issue of projector output. Furthermore the types of projectors capable of the output required to make the best use of the omega system are also less prone to color balance and uniformity issues since these are the type of projectors the system was originally designed to be used with. These types of projectors also have throw distance ratios that are perfect for the omega system. If you can find a pair of dlp or xenon projectors that are capable of this output range I believe that 95% of all problems with the system will be gone.
> 
> For example if you are intent on a 16FL screen brightness when viewing 3d content on a high contrast (0.8 gain) large screen 16ft x 9ft (220" diagonal) then based on the test results of that review you will need 16, 000 lumen light canons to achieve such a goal. Not impossible but certainly not in the domain of cheap sub $5000 consumer home theater projectors.



I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about why Motorman's Omega system hasn't caught on. Let's ignore 3D for a moment, if you want to get 16FL on a high contrast (.8 gain) 16X9 screen (220" diagonal), you aren't going to be able to do that with a $5,000 home theater projector. In fact, I don't think there are any projectors under $30,000 that could do that.


So discounting the Omega system because you need very bright projectors for a 220" screen doesn't seem to be a fair argument. I think most people that would be spending 2 - 3K on a projector realize they will probably need to be in the 100" - 150" range for screen size, and I think having two projectors (rather than one) compensates for much of the loss of light from the filters and glasses. Accordingly, I think whatever your screen size for a 2D projector can stay relatively the same for a passive 3D setup if you go with two projectors.


One possible candidate would be the Benq W7000, it streets for about $1,700 and seems to put out quite a bit of light to be a good match with the Omega system.


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## motorman45

image here


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## sipester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23317074
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with hundreds of kits sold the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. with respect to that review you posted i have a lot of respect for him but the testing and measurements were not accurate. i had to build a special custom spectroradiomter in order to effectiveley measure crostal and color balance of a chromatic 3d system and the ghosing is so low it is nearly impossible to measure it is actually 0.05%. the color imbalance was discussed a lot in this thread and the ultimate thread. look at the photos posted where i used no color adjustemnts and a good color chart. i admit that some projectors especially JVC and Sony can have greater L to R imbalance, but it worked so well that Sony themselves approved the system and installed it using their 4k SXRD projectors.



If you have sold hundreds of kits, do you have a website or just the various offerings on ebay? Perhaps I've overlooked in this thread, but do you have any sort of FAQ about the system? Some questions I have are:


1. How do the omega filters work when watching 2D content, do they need to be removed?

2. Do you have a list of recommended projectors at certain price points?

3. Do you have any packages with the Geobox as that seems to really complete the system?

4. Do you have any accessories for mounting the filters in front of the projectors?

5. Are there any issues with using the Omega filters and an anamorphic lens?


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## motorman45

image here


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## ttview




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sipester*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23317020
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about why Motorman's Omega system hasn't caught on. Let's ignore 3D for a moment, if you want to get 16FL on a high contrast (.8 gain) 16X9 screen (220" diagonal), you aren't going to be able to do that with a $5,000 home theater projector. In fact, I don't think there are any projectors under $30,000 that could do that.
> 
> 
> So discounting the Omega system because you need very bright projectors for a 220" screen doesn't seem to be a fair argument. I think most people that would be spending 2 - 3K on a projector realize they will probably need to be in the 100" - 150" range for screen size, and I think having two projectors (rather than one) compensates for much of the loss of light from the filters and glasses. Accordingly, I think whatever your screen size for a 2D projector can stay relatively the same for a passive 3D setup if you go with two projectors.
> 
> 
> One possible candidate would be the Benq W7000, it streets for about $1,700 and seems to put out quite a bit of light to be a good match with the Omega system.



I know 220" diagonal isn't an average situation and thus not necessarily a fair argument but that's the screen size of my current project and I used it as an extreme example because until now I never realized what lumen output would be required for such a screen size using omega filters. Also you say no $5000 projector for 2D only content could produce 16 FL on a screen that size but we're talking about dual stacked projectors not single projector use and I'm sure that dual stacked projectors in the $5000 consumer price range can produce enough light to reproduce 2D at 16FL on a screen of this size but I could be wrong.


The one point I wanted to drive home is that after I read that review and realized that actual test results with the omega filters and glasses show only between 16% to 22% of light was really reaching the eyes, for optimum 3D content viewing, the omega filter system would require projectors to be 4 to 5 times brighter than for 2D. I understand that there were measurement errors now that I've read motorman's response but I made my assumptions based on the test results of the review, my calculator and nothing but those 2 things.


----------



## ttview




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23317074
> 
> 
> i would respectfully dissagree with the statment about lumens needed. *ive run several dual stacks with 2000 to 2700 lumen projectors on my 170" screen with very bright results*. throw ratio is not a problem for most home theater units , anyting between 1.5:1 and up work perfectly. color uniformity is spot on at 1.7:1 and up.
> 
> color imbalance is an issue with LCD projectors and our LCD optomized filters work great for %95 of LCD users. most home theaters are 120" screens and under. not 220" . *i had developed this system for cinema and 16 Fl is high for even the best cinemas*. the target for theaters that Panavision installed our system in was 12 Fl and that is better than a lot of other 3D tech out there.
> 
> 
> with hundreds of kits sold the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. with respect to that review you posted i have a lot of respect for him but the testing and measurements were not accurate. i had to build a special custom spectroradiomter in order to effectiveley measure crostal and color balance of a chromatic 3d system and the ghosing is so low it is nearly impossible to measure it is actually 0.05%. the color imbalance was discussed a lot in this thread and the ultimate thread. look at the photos posted where i used no color adjustemnts and a good color chart. i admit that some projectors especially JVC and Sony can have greater L to R imbalance, but it worked so well that Sony themselves approved the system and installed it using their 4k SXRD projectors.



you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.

Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.


Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.


So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.


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## motorman45

image here


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## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ttview*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23319426
> 
> 
> you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
> 
> Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.
> 
> 
> Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.
> 
> 
> So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.




You say you have not seen any 3D better than IMAX and you are not willing to compromise, but have you ever seen any passive 3D like the Omega system, or just polarizer 3D?

Speaking from experience, The Passive 3D from the Omega system makes the polarizer systems that you see in the theaters look like a joke.

You shouldn't question the FL issue at this point.

If you are so in need of massive FL's go buy some $10,000-$20,000 projectors and put them in your basement and rock on!


----------



## sipester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23318299
> 
> 
> You make some good points. we do need a better website. but the kits we sell were initially spare parts from our cinema installations we decided to let DIY fans have access to. 3D is a side line to what our company really makes, high end aerospace, astronomy and biomedical imaging optics.
> 
> but to respond to youre points
> 
> 1. they work perfectly for 2D left in place on a dual stack if you have the image alignment of say the geobox 501
> 
> 2. i do have a list of known ideal projectors in the threads but it would be good to post these on a website
> 
> 3. yes i offer the geobox 501 with warp/alignment alone and in a bundle ( pm for price for the 501) and the 201 that is the same but without warp for $699 alone or $999 with the optics.
> 
> 4. the filters come in a mounting frame but i do not have mounts as every install is custom and inteded to be DIY
> 
> 5. no issue with an anamorphic as long as the filter is behind the anemographic lens. i have a user doing this now.
> 
> 
> 
> i will talk to my marketing group to see if they could add this to our page on our compnay site
> 
> http://www.omegafilters.com/Capabilities/3-D_Glasses_and_Projector_Filters/
> 
> 
> thanks ..



Thanks, that was very helpful and yes, I think having a website to cover these types of questions would be very helpful for your business. Two other quick follow-up questions.


1. For 2D watching with a Geobox 501, I assume you don't need to still watch with the glasses on correct? Instead, is it correct you would still have two projectors on (for increased brightness) with the filters in place, but just a standard 2D image.

2. A while back someone asked about dual-play, I don't see that you replied. Here is a quick video explaining how this works on LG Tv's, and I think Sony has this to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbRG-KfWyVc Is that something that could work with the Geobox 501?


----------



## Vaan Janne

it´s the glasses that do dual play. if you ment 2 people playing full screen 2D.

other glasses with 2 left and other with 2 right lenses. Common sense


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## motorman45

image here


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## sipester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ttview*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23319426
> 
> 
> you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
> 
> Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.
> 
> 
> Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.
> 
> 
> So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.



If you really need the extra lumens, I'm wondering if you could possibly go to four projectors, Airflex seems to indicate that you can, see info here: http://www.airflex5d.com/af5d30.html 


Motorman - Is it possible to still do passive 3d with four projectors, with two being for the left eye, and two for the right eye? I see the Airflex 5d has an HDMI loop output, so it seems that you could bridge in more projectors if needed. Or is the 4 projector scenario only for increased brightness for 2D images?


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Venom09

I own a w6000 with 1500hrs on the bulb and love the brightness and picture quality in 2d. To buy another w6000 and the kit will cost us around $2500...

So to get the wife onboard I took her out to see Startrek in RealD 3d at the local theater. In short she was not impressed. The next day it looked like she had welders flash in her eyes.

And the brightness contrast... The faces and lights in the picture are nice and bright but everything els is really dim...

Is that normal for 3d or is the omega system better than RealD in terms of brightness?


----------



## xrokis

Sorry for the noob question but is it possible to use band pass filters from omega glasses on the front of projectors?

Has anybody tried this?

I saw a similiar solution in thread about dolby3d passive projection.


6 pairs of omega 3d glasses costs only 100$ on ebay...


----------



## peterbus

i will be using two optoma hd600x dlp projectors with 2 3D-XL,S ,ordered the omega 5 glasses kit a few days ago,its great to know if the 3D-XLs fail i can buy an inexpensive demultiplexer,cant wait for the kit,ive been using active glasses and find them quite dark.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

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## philiwahnilli

Well, I promised give a short review on my new OMEGA 3D projector system. I turned out to be a DIY lesson, but maybe it's interesting for some freaks like me.


My Hardware:

- Geobox 201

- 2x Benq W1070 (1920x1080 DLP, 2000 lumens, 10%(of image height) vertical lensshift, 1,15-1,5 throw)

- Omega DLP small 3D kit


Firt of all I tried to place the filters in front of the lenses, but the filters only work fine with a throw larger than 1.5. So i just abdicated the projectors warranty and placed the filters inside the projectors. The result is a performance, which is slightly better than for the 1.5 throw and filters in front of the lens, but within the entire zoom range. Sounds easy, but, well, let's see.

first of all i opened the projector:
 

First try: place the filtes directly behind the lamp -> negative result, as the light is highly focussed onto the DLP roation wheel (area approx. 1,5cm square), and the numerical apertur (the angular spread) is to large, so you get a lot of partial color shift and lots of crosstalk - a pity, it could have been so easy...


Seconf try: Only way to get inside the 'optics', demount the zoom lens. The next image shows the DLP-optics box from the front (omega filter inside are already inside, but not yet within the light path).
 

To get a better overview of how the optics inside work:
 

And the red box is where I placed my filters. How did I do this?

For some reason (maybe maintainance & repair) there is a little hole/slot in the top, covered by a small plate:
 

And as I wanted to watch movies in 2D using only one projector the challenge was to remove the filter occasionally. So i 'designed' a aluminium block, cut out 16x16mm pieces out ot the filters and mountet them to some wire using epoxy (i know, pretty much quick & dirty, but it works):
 

I placed the alu box inside the slot (from the top), bend the wire monted at the filters by 90degree to fit in a little hole inside the box, so i could fasten teh filters from the top using a standard screw. DONE.

now there's the filter in front of the lens that collimates the outer light (coming from the ratation wheel) into the chamber with al the other optics:
 

And the good thing, I can easy remove the filters by pulling the alu block from the top though the top slot (the filter won't fit through the top slot but the lift is just enough to clear the lens).

I realized the lift from outside the projector by another wire i can easily push or pull (and up to know fasten it by duct tape occasionally ;-) ).

Any questions?


OK the performance:

Virtually NO crosstalk. The lamp has not a pretty FULL color spectrum, so you get some color error. The Benq W1070 has a fine tuning Hue/Gain/Offset adjustment for 6 colors (RGB & CMY). you can compensate most of the color error, but thanks to mother nature and our own built in white balance, the rest is done by your own eyes (this assumes that you dont have other white light in your flat). I only see a noticable luminance difference at really deep red and cyan tones, but you won't notice in a movie, and it's a litlle drawback I can live with respect to the rest of the performance.


I have the geobox 201, so alignment has to be done manually. Even with lens shift (which is just enough with the BENQ W1070) image alignment is a nightmare, but once you got it, you really have FULL HD, no Flicker or crosstalk and a really great picture. In my opinion, it's much better and brighter than the commercial cinemas. I'm enjoying it a lot.


I've got a general recommendation for this DIY two projector system. The depth in recently published 3D BDs is much more professional in terms of far field points. So you newer get problems on large screen, however, in older IMAX 3D movies sometimes the far-field disparity is so huge on a large screen, that the eyes have to diverge and the 3D effect is decomposed or really uncofortable. Since the geobox 201 is not able to do a hotizontal alignment (adjustment of depth) I recommend a very good bluray player: Panasonic DMP-BDT234EG. It's able to adjust the depth (shift the 3D image towards you) so that this problem is minimized. It also plays 3D MPO files and AVCHD 3D, so it's a good investment, especially for people who produce their own 3D content.


----------



## tonymaxbirt

Question for Motorman, using your filters with 2 x BenQ W7000 projectors with fantastic results. While moving one of the lens, I put my oily finger on the lens and smudged it a little. What should I use to clean the lens, if I should? thanks


----------



## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## trgraphics

I have been looking for the Geoboc G-501. Earlier in the thread you said it would sell for $1299.00. Is that price still good and where can I locate one to purchase. Thanks.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

Does these smaller experimental kits come at lcd version if wanted ?

can one place the omega filtter directly to lamp ?

i measured my lamp front glass is about 30mm *30mm

if the small filtter piece does not cover the whole lamp area does it spoil the image ?


is the orientation critical on omega, or have i understod correctly that the orientation can be any on both ?


----------



## spectrogj

I think you probably want to put it in front of the lamp but still allow airflow from the cooling fan.

You would not want tto block the cooling from the lamp.

Most projectors, the fan blows across the front of the lamp and there is a small pocket in the front of the lamp, for filter placement.

Whatever you do dont eat any KFC before you work on your projector, getting any oily fingers on the lampwill not be good for it.

Not sure about the LCD version

Motorman45???

can you help us


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint

Lookslike a great system. Am considering it myself, might invest in the fliter and 5 glasses kit and start saving up for another used 1080p projector. Wish there was a dealer/supplier in the uk as we always get stung for 20% uk vat and then 5-10% import duty and then a rip-off BS Customs clearence fee by the one and only uk owned postal service.


Will be subscribing to this thread for updates and hopefully new testers results.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Interesting, good effort, just not upto the job and theres the price aswell.

http://www.lg.com/uk/projectors/lg-CF3D 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsboPCFqYmE 



Someone needs to biuld one at right money (if possible?) and with actually high enough lumins for 2d and 3d and with reasonable contrast.


Good effort LG, just not good enough.


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23436094
> 
> 
> this projector has been out for some time. i heard it was the contrast that was not so great. i would be glad to help someone build a better version of this, without using LCoS like LG did



Wish we were in same country buddy as would love to add my VERY LIMITED funds to the cause. I see LG made this,
http://www.projectorcentral.com/images/articles/LG-CF181D-front.jpg 


Think the shell would be a good base to start with as looks quite big, like JVC pro's sizes. Lots of room inside to fit twin setup to one(or 2) lenses??


Maybe fit internals from 2 w1070's into it??


----------



## imbloodyskint

Got a mate interested in a kit now so have asked seller for best price for 2 kits shipped to me in uk and if he can put down alot lower customs value on invoice to minimise the 30ish percent I expect to get charged when arrives in the uk.


Also, Have now read few reviews and the benq w1070 apparently has problems with quick moving action.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23437841
> 
> 
> Got a mate interested in a kit now so have asked seller for best price for 2 kits shipped to me in uk and if he can put down alot lower customs value on invoice to minimise the 30ish percent I expect to get charged when arrives in the uk.
> 
> 
> Also, Have now read few reviews and the benq w1070 apparently has problems with quick moving action.


UPDATE

Bob (ebay seller) has knocked off a and free shipping for buying 2 kits, now to see if he is happy to declare the value of the items at alot less then what im paying as gonna get stung for 30% in uk vat and import duty. So if $700usd, I will pay $210 extra on top.


----------



## Vaan Janne

You do realize the insurance value is also lovered also. If something goes bad do you think seller hapily ships you a new one after he just lost lots the cost of a unit


----------



## Vaan Janne

You do realize the insurance value is also lovered also. If something goes bad do you think seller hapily ships you a new one after he just lost lots the cost of a unit


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23440058
> 
> 
> You do realize the insurance value is also lovered also. If something goes bad do you think seller hapily ships you a new one after he just lost lots the cost of a unit



I do, have done it before and always a risk.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Getting twitchy now, me and mate want to order 1 set each of the $369 kits and since 1st reply earlier, nothing else today and his auction states only 4 kits left??


Also, I see optoma now have the HD25-LV Which is a 3200 lumens light cannon version of the HD25 (2000 lumens), Called the HD25-LV. Its £250gbp more.


So far option wise my choices are,

2x Benq w1070's (2000Lumens) total cost of £1300gbp, (Will get much larger screen size in my limited 10.4ft range)

2x optoma HD25 (2000Lumens) total cost of £1600gbp

2x optoma HD25-LV (3200Lumens) total cost of £2100gbp


Would love to get 2 w7000's but at around £2500-3000 used its just beyond my comfort zone financially, already spending money that I shouldnt be.


The cheapest option is to just buy another hd33 (1800Lumens) for around £700 new.


As for the HD25-LV I dont know how they got another 1200Lumens out of it as according to the spec it has exactly same spec and buld and watts as the 2000Lumen HD25???


----------



## imbloodyskint

Well,

No reply from ebay seller so just went ahead and ordered one kit from his ebay listing for DLP Projector.


Now the wait begins and more research into what 2 projectors to go for. Gonna sell my led 46 samsung 3d tv to part fund tmy venture into this world of full hd passive 3d.










One thing I keep forgetting to ask,

Do I just need my pc and twin hdmi output graphics card (2 hdmi cables) OR Do I also need to add an optoma 3d xl box????


----------



## Vaan Janne

I prefer you buy geobox or 3d-xl or vip... you cant game with dx10/11 with out demultiplexer...and pc:s mediaplayers for bluray/mkv 3d playback are how do you say...not the consumer friendly as you would like + for me not having subtitles s a major letdown and boost to get a proper mediaplayer.

I did not find any way to playback 3d mkv sutitles properly using stereoplayer, powerdvd13,vlc,tridef mediaplayer.... goomplayer ks propably the only one i did not try.

Powerdvd has subtitles but don,t have support for dual pj setup..atleasti did not get it to work.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23444968
> 
> 
> you can use a dual output video card but as Vaan points out you run into software issues, a demultiplexer makes it easy for any source to feed the two projectors. either a geobox or the VIP evolver, the optoma 3d-xls's are an option but you need two of them and a splitter. i have good deals on some geobox's. i really want to test the vip evolver but dont have one yet. the 501 geobox has warp/ geometric correction for perfect alighment and the 201 i have for $699 is nearly the same but without the warp tool.
> 
> 
> i would go for the HD25 or HD25-lv over the w1070



Damn!!!

Lookslike I just bought something I cant afford to finish. I should of read more, thought 2 x projectors and dual hdmi carded pc was all I needed along with the omega 3d kit.


So,

I think? I'm right in saying I now need at the minimum, a new graphics card with 2x hdmi output(mine got 1x hdmi + 2x dvi) OR 2X 3D XL's and a hdmi splitter?


2x hd25's will cost me £1470 (£130 discount for buying 2) and sell my hd33.


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23445562
> 
> 
> you do have all you need. a dual out video card , two projectors and the 3d kit should be fine. you just need a program like stereoscopic player to turn your video card into a demultiplexer.
> 
> 
> 2 dvi out is just fine , you dont need dual hdmi out. you can get the sound out from the pc to whatever audio device you want.



Brilliant news,

Was habit gutted there for a while. Thank you motorman45. Once I've got my 2nd projector I need to find a ceiling bracket that can take the weight of 2 hd33's or hd25's and there mounting system I'm gonna have to make for both of them.


Off topic, There's 2 of those dual lg projectors on UK ebay. Anyone fancy buying one, and retro fitting it with 2 DLP projector internals to make the first dual dlp passive 3D projector.


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23447238
> 
> 
> youre welcome. as for the lg retrofit ive thought of doing that if i had one but its got sony sxrd LCoS internal imagers if its the one im thinking of, and im not sure how much space there is in there to fit the filters in. the beam combiner may be plorizing based and may need to be changed as well. ive got all the optics to do it either way but not the spare $$ to experiment with. would be great.



Ah Right,

I didnt even consider if the beam combiner would only be able to used on the Lcos setup. I thought it would be a sort of simple job of replacing the twin lcos lamp+mirror setup with a twin dlp setup using the internal beam combiner.


----------



## imbloodyskint

I forgot to add,

Using a hd33 would gain you just 3000 in contrast compared to the LG twin lcos setup, which was quoted at 7000:1 contrast.


LG = 2500LM. Contrast =7000:1

HD33/25 = 1800LM/2000LM. Contrast 10,000/20,000:1

W1070/W7000 = 2000LM/1600LM. Contrast = 10,000:1/50,000:1


Motorman45,

Have you got an idea as to whats used/needed in the w7000 to have so much more contrast then all the others and is dlp the best for a twin setup?


----------



## sipester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23448008
> 
> 
> I forgot to add,
> 
> Using a hd33 would gain you just 3000 in contrast compared to the LG twin lcos setup, which was quoted at 7000:1 contrast.
> 
> 
> LG = 2500LM. Contrast =7000:1
> 
> HD33/25 = 1800LM/2000LM. Contrast 10,000/20,000:1
> 
> W1070/W7000 = 2000LM/1600LM. Contrast = 10,000:1/50,000:1
> 
> 
> Motorman45,
> 
> Have you got an idea as to whats used/needed in the w7000 to have so much more contrast then all the others and is dlp the best for a twin setup?



I think DLP gives you the option to do passive 3d on a normal screen, with LCD I think you need to have a polarized screen to do passive 3d, but Motorman45 can confirm.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sipester*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23448577
> 
> 
> I think DLP gives you the option to do passive 3d on a normal screen, with LCD I think you need to have a polarized screen to do passive 3d, but Motorman45 can confirm.



Ah, Right. Now I get it.










Also,

After reading up on the w7000, its quoted at 2000lum, and 1600 after calibrated. Also the 50,000:1 contrast is via dynamic iris, and actual base contrast is apparently less then the other dlp's listed above. I spotted the w7000 at $1500 usd each on amazon US, yet there £2700 new on amazon UK???


Oh,

The LG uses a twin lamp to single lense setup.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Oh Yer,

Been offered a used hd33 with no glasses for £500 with 2500 hrs on the lamp.


If I can get around £600 for my hd33 with 1000hrs on the lamp and 3 pair of glasses (2 pair never used), then for £610-£870 more I can have either 2 new W1070s OR HD25s

(£1210-£1470 in total).


Now while the hd25 are quoted at double the contrast then the w1070's, the benq's will give a larger screen and are quite abit smaller overall then the hd25's.


Would love to see inside both w1070 and hd25 to see which one is more compact/complex for when I do eventually I take the step of making up a single casing to hold 2 dlp projector internals using both lense for now, unless motorman45 can enlighten me on how to work it with just one lense with mirrors/lenses or whatever is needed.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23448797
> 
> 
> you can use LCD on a normal screen for 3d with our filters. i have many customers using panasonic and sony lcd units with my filters



Sorry motorman45,

I have indeed read that and should of known, you must be getting sick of me by now (lol-jk)










What I meant to ask before was, why dlp over lcos or lcd. From what I've read it would appear that dlp is supposed to be best for no ghosting and in game response times compared to the others, but not as good at getting as good contrast ratio's???


Now doing it with your setup, shouldn't that negate the ghosting issue on the lcos/lcd projectors??


I can see generally dlp is cheaper in the most part until you want higher contrast from the dlp.


I need to chat with you more to get a better idea of what I will actually need at the minimum to make it all work internally so I can run a twin projector setup in one box with 1 external lens so no fine tuning needed by the owner once its setup.


The quick and simple way (FOR MYSELF RIGHT NOW) right now is to just stack 2 complete dlp projector internals with both lamps and lenses inside one box with your dlp omega 3d filters just behind each lens and adjust the lens offsets to line up on my wall around 10ft away. The final goal is to have just one external lens so no need for alignment adjustments as per the failed attempt by LG.


----------



## imbloodyskint

I took so long to write my last post you have already replied


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/240#post_23448906
> 
> 
> on contrast: its far over rated. $80,000 cinema projectors with 2k 3 chip imagers make 4000:1 or so contrast and look great.



I wouldn't go that far, commercial cinemas have a lot of ambient light that limits the effective contrast you can "produce", doesn't mean it's not a significant limiting factor in a fully light controlled HT.


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## motorman45

image here


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## imbloodyskint

Ah,

So a lot of this quoted 20-50-100-300,000:1 contrast ratios is a lot of BS by the company's.

Now why doesn't that surprise me.


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23449505
> 
> 
> Ah,
> 
> So a lot of this quoted 20-50-100-300,000:1 contrast ratios is a lot of BS by the company's.
> 
> Now why doesn't that surprise me.



I wouldn't quite say that, but you have to take specifications with the appropriate grain of salt. For example JVC projectors do actually hit their rated specs, even those in excess of 100,000:1. That's why it's always a good idea to check out objective reviews to see what reality is.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23449392
> 
> 
> well maybe 4000:1 is just ok and youre correct cinema has some ambient light to deal with to some degree but the human eye cannot see the contrasting images much beyond 10,000:1 ratios. if a white part of the screen image is %100 and a black image in the same shot is 10,000 times less, that is %0.01 , much more contrast than that is only theoretical.



Rather than go into this in this thread I'll direct you to an older thread about contrast:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1071092/poll-how-much-on-off-contrast-is-enough#post_14764571 


I could summarize by saying based on the NASA data, in a home theater something on the order of 10 million:1 would be usable/visible in a home theater.


> Quote:
> i build spectral instruments and made one for testing my 3d system durring development and getting it to measure the extiction ratio of my 3d system was a real challenge at %0.1 . now i admit our eyes are a lot better than instraments but when i hear 50,000:1 and higher contrast ratios i know it cant be measured but some people "see" a differance. it a preception issue some times as well.



It's definitely tricky to measure, but it's possible, the easiest way I know of is to simply reduce the size of the screen you measure off of, or to measure directly from the projector. This increases the minimum measured light, which is usually the harder part. There's also options like measuring in steps, if you measure 100 IRE:50IRE and then 50IRE:0IRE you can multiply them and get the total contrast.


But this is all way OT for this thread.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Well,

Found a great thread showing the working of the LG CF3D.


Shows the insides of it and explains how it works.


And what trick they used to merge the 2 images into one single image before it leaves the projector.


(New working link)
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/lg-cf3d/cf3d_test.htm


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## motorman45

image here


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23451480
> 
> 
> I build prototype optics for NASA, JPL and others including having built part of the Hubble and i have no doubt about their accuracy on test data but it still dosnt change the fact that in optical terms human vision is limited to seeing light levels down to optical density 3 or 4 and the best spectroradiometers dont do much better. thats 0,1% to 0.01% 10 million to one would be 0.00001% but i will not argue those that know more than I when it comes to image contrast. just offering my experiance. its a good debate.



FWIW, here's the reference from the other thread:

http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm#_4.2_VISION 


The threshold of vision is 10^-6 millilamberts. If my math is right 1 milliLambert is about .9 ftL, essentially 1 ftL. So if we go with DCI recommended 16ftL for peak white, 16/10^-6 = 16,000,000:1. Of course that's the absolute threshold, which means it could be minutes for your eyes to adjust to that. You could go with something a bit more reasonable (for adjustment over short time periods) like white paper in starlight, which for anyone who's been outside away from a city on a night without a moon knows is pretty dark, that's 10^-4, but that's still 160,000:1. Black level at 4000:1 is more like white paper in moonlight, which you can almost read off of.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanger89*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23452153
> 
> 
> FWIW, here's the reference from the other thread:
> 
> http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm#_4.2_VISION
> 
> 
> The threshold of vision is 10^-6 millilamberts. If my math is right 1 milliLambert is about .9 ftL, essentially 1 ftL. So if we go with DCI recommended 16ftL for peak white, 16/10^-6 = 16,000,000:1. Of course that's the absolute threshold, which means it could be minutes for your eyes to adjust to that. You could go with something a bit more reasonable (for adjustment over short time periods) like white paper in starlight, which for anyone who's been outside away from a city on a night without a moon knows is pretty dark, that's 10^-4, but that's still 160,000:1. Black level at 4000:1 is more like white paper in moonlight, which you can almost read off of.






Your math may be correct but nobody in the real world has the time or energy to figure out what you are talking about.

A white paper in starlight?

16,000,000:1

Are you Superman?or a cat?

Could I blind you if I turned on a flashlight after your eyes have adjusted to the white paper in the moonlight?

When it comes right down to it black is black and anything brighter than that is headed towards white. you cannot project black, In the end viewing experience is what we all want.


----------



## imbloodyskint

OK guys.

Lets try get back to what the thread was about before I asked about contrast. Lets stick to Omega 3D and passive 3D in general..


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23461103
> 
> 
> When it comes right down to it black is black and anything brighter than that is headed towards white. you cannot project black, In the end viewing experience is what we all want.



Point is you're exactly right with that, black is the absence of perceived light, anything above that isn't black. Not to pick on motorman, but people make comments like "...the human eye cannot see the contrasting images much beyond 10,000:1 ratios" when there's solid evidence to the contrary. If you want "black" from a projector in an HT with reference white level, you need on the order of 10 million:1 sequential contrast.


But I think we've derailed this thread plenty.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanger89*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23461217
> 
> 
> Point is you're exactly right with that, black is the absence of perceived light, anything above that isn't black. Not to pick on motorman, but people make comments like "...the human eye cannot see the contrasting images much beyond 10,000:1 ratios" when there's solid evidence to the contrary. If you want "black" from a projector in an HT with reference white level, you need on the order of 10 million:1 sequential contrast.
> 
> 
> But I think we've derailed this thread plenty.



I have a better chance of winning the lottery than seeing 10million : 1 contrast.


----------



## sanderdvd

I am very interested in the Omega 3D kit with the Geobox G-501. However, I currently own a JVC X75 projector which biggest plus is its native contrast. Because of the high native contrast (I measured 18520:1) I get VERY good black levels in my dedicated pitch black home theater room. I know that I will never gert this native contrast with a DLP projector (not even with a SIM2) but I was hoping to find a DLP projector that fits the Omega 3D kit that has at least 500:1 native contrast (measured! So NOT specified by the manufacturer!!!). I ve been told that I should look for a used Sharp XV-Z20000 or Maratz DLPer but it is really not so easy to find two of them. SO which DLP projector has a very good native contrast that fit with the Omega 3D kit?


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23468021
> 
> 
> I am very interested in the Omega 3D kit with the Geobox G-501. However, I currently own a JVC X75 projector which biggest plus is its native contrast. Because of the high native contrast (I measured 18520:1) I get VERY good black levels in my dedicated pitch black home theater room. I know that I will never gert this native contrast with a DLP projector (not even with a SIM2) but I was hoping to find a DLP projector that fits the Omega 3D kit that has at least 500:1 native contrast (measured! So NOT specified by the manufacturer!!!). I ve been told that I should look for a used Sharp XV-Z20000 or Maratz DLPer but it is really not so easy to find two of them. SO which DLP projector has a very good native contrast that fit with the Omega 3D kit?



I think Im correct in stating that (motorman45 please correct me if im wrong) OMEGA 3D do different kits for lcd and other types of projectors, not just dlp. so good chance you could run 2 x x35/x55 or even x75's.


----------



## sanderdvd

There is a kit for lcd but this will give more incorrect colors and I am a isf certified calibration person so will not like that


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23468021
> 
> 
> I am very interested in the Omega 3D kit with the Geobox G-501. However, I currently own a JVC X75 projector which biggest plus is its native contrast. Because of the high native contrast (I measured 18520:1) I get VERY good black levels in my dedicated pitch black home theater room. I know that I will never gert this native contrast with a DLP projector (not even with a SIM2) but I was hoping to find a DLP projector that fits the Omega 3D kit that has at least 500:1 native contrast (measured! So NOT specified by the manufacturer!!!). I ve been told that I should look for a used Sharp XV-Z20000 or Maratz DLPer but it is really not so easy to find two of them. SO which DLP projector has a very good native contrast that fit with the Omega 3D kit?



Lots of the "good" DLPs hit well over 1000:1 native contrast. I think my Planar 8150 is around 3000:1 (15000:1 dynamic).


----------



## sanderdvd

Someone knows the Sharp XV-Z18000?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanger89*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23468101
> 
> 
> Lots of the "good" DLPs hit well over 1000:1 native contrast. I think my Planar 8150 is around 3000:1 (15000:1 dynamic).


The 'problem' is that going from eg. 1500:1 native contrast to 4000:1 native contrast makes a very noticable difference in black level in het pitch black room. The difference from eg. 5000:1 native (Sony HW50) to 18000:1 native (JVC X35) is really not that big in real life. So in my opinion approx. 4000:1 native is the minimum requirement for a decent black level.


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23468317
> 
> 
> we do make an LCD version but Sander is correct in the the color balance will still not be as good as with a good DLP projector. i have some users that have the LCD large filters and the new Sony 4k home projectors and they think it works wonderful with good color balance. now one customer with the JVC units did not like the balance. so its hard to say. i have seen and tested the sony 4k cinema unit with my lcd filters and it is very good. it may be the way they filter the color bands
> 
> 
> the sharp looks like a very good unit


This makes my re-think my decision to go for 2 dlp's. You think the Sony VW1000 colors with the LCD kit are as good as a dlp stack with the DLP kit? If so, it MIGHT be interesting to test the LCD kit with a Sony HW50 stack because (I think) the lamp technique in the HW50 is about the same as that from the VW1000


----------



## imbloodyskint

Well, I'm gonna give 2 Benq w1070's ago. Would loved 2 W7000's but would cost me more then double.


----------



## stanger89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23469180
> 
> 
> The 'problem' is that going from eg. 1500:1 native contrast to 4000:1 native contrast makes a very noticable difference in black level in het pitch black room. The difference from eg. 5000:1 native (Sony HW50) to 18000:1 native (JVC X35) is really not that big in real life. So in my opinion approx. 4000:1 native is the minimum requirement for a decent black level.



You said you wanted one with at least 500:1


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23469228
> 
> 
> Well, I'm gonna give 2 Benq w1070's ago. Would loved 2 W7000's but would cost me more then double.


Why the W7000s? You know they have a very bad native contrast (650:1!!!!) and use the very outdated Darkchip2?


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanger89*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23469386
> 
> 
> You said you wanted one with at least 500:1


No, I said 5000:1










But serious, something around 5000:1 is ok.


Now search for one that does that
















I did see the Optoma HD83 but it does not get raving reviews. Some reviews here say that the HD33 is even better.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23471499
> 
> 
> Why the W7000s? You know they have a very bad native contrast (650:1!!!!) and use the very outdated Darkchip2?



WOW!!! 650:1 Native. Didnt know it was that bad.


Anyway lets get back to omega 3d.


Anyone else bought a kit recently??


----------



## sanderdvd

Still thinking about it but just found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRSeg1Ajk3Y 


Want to look into this some more


EDIT:

I found out that it is a system made by Infitec. I called them (Germany) and they told me that their system works perfect with both DLP, LCD and LCOS. Maybe this is the solution to use when someone wants to use LCOS dual-stack? No silverscreen is needed just like the Panavision solution.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Omega 3d kit just arrived. So now waiting for delivery of the 2 w1070.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sanderdvd*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23471612
> 
> 
> Still thinking about it but just found this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRSeg1Ajk3Y
> 
> 
> Want to look into this some more
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> I found out that it is a system made by Infitec. I called them (Germany) and they told me that their system works perfect with both DLP, LCD and LCOS. Maybe this is the solution to use when someone wants to use LCOS dual-stack? No silverscreen is needed just like the Panavision solution.







Is anyone able to get a price on their bundle?


----------



## zorg43x

I thought Infitec and Omega filters are quasi the same - it's based on simmilar principle and the color output has simmilar caveats...?


----------



## imbloodyskint

Heres a pic shot through the lens of omega glasses compared to my other optoma active glasses from my hd33 kit.

(Taken on my nexus 4 on "HDR Setting")

 

 


Comparing the pictures to what I see myself, the omega lenses actually look to me around a few shades lighter.


Got my w1070's coming 2mora, so will see if can figure out how to use the stereoscopic player.

Now,

I will be projecting onto a basic dull grey wall for now because I havent got setup yet, so no proper screen because the room has just started to get done and the walls were how shall I say "abit wavey(sp)" so had to resand them and had to order more paint to redo them again.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23474394
> 
> 
> 
> im honored infitec would copy me with offering a kit and a bundle with the same demultiplexer i sell, and make a youtube video too lol... *imatation is what ?*


----------



## sanderdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/270#post_23474394
> 
> 
> the omega 3d and infitec could not be more different from each other in the way they work. the only similarity is that they both use optical filter tech and are chromatic and not polorized. infitec splits light into two sets of RGB bands. the omega system splits the visible spectrum into ten bands and is not based on RGB bands. the disadvantage infitec has is the color balance between eyes is vastly different requiring a digital color processor to alter the colors of each eyes image on the fly based on a calibration of the given system. when dolby ( uses infitec fitlers) impliments this system tehy lease for sell you a $20,000 color processor server. that is the only way it looks right on a screen. and to boot they do not get the level of extiction, the % efficency of the omega system.
> 
> 
> just read the thread on here somewhere on skilled builders trying to use the dolby filters before we came and offered our kits. all the trouble of adjusting colors to get a decent image with little success. now i will admit they were trying to use the eye filter as a projection filter, and this is not how its intended to work but even with their projection filter that has not been offered to the public till now ( and at what cost ? ) you will still suffer great color imbalance you cannot correct. peole think our lcd kit on a jvc looks less than great in eye to eye color balance. they will be pissed at how much the infitec costs and how poor it works, unless you get a color server, and not one that just adjusts the rgb gains per eye, it is a total recalc of each color in an image.
> 
> 
> if i was able to use such a color processor our optics could not be rivaled by any system. we contemplated this when developing it with panavision but as we tweaked the design for the best native color and energy balance we found it was perfect on 3dlp cinema and on home theater dlp units is is nearly as good.
> 
> 
> im honored infitec would copy me with offering a kit and a bundle with the same demultiplexer i sell, and make a youtube video too lol... imatation is what ?



I had a lengthly conversion with Infitec Germany yesterday and at this moment they are testing a new solution for a JVC dual-stack that will be available for consumers very soon . They told me that it looks very promising and that it will be perfect without the need of an $$$$$ color decoder.


By the way, Infitec is using 3x4 filters since their latest versions


Also, look at this (translated from German to English):
http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Finstallationen%2FJVC_Infitec_3D%2FJVC_X35_3D_Infitec.htm


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## sanderdvd

Infitec assured me that the solutin they are testing at the moment for a jvc dual stack will be perfect for colors.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## sanderdvd

Will know price soon I hope


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## zorg43x

well, it should not be that hard to try - there's almost everything possible on PC, one can write yourself a piece of code for the color remapping etc. I don't know exactly how it works by omega and what would have to be programmed, but I guess it can be done relatively easily...


----------



## Vaan Janne

Except the pc is crapass media player if you wan't to enjoyn subtitles. Well atleast i did not fi d any good solution.

Stereo player has about zero support o subtitles...allthough playback is exelent. Vlc doesnt play 3d atleast to my knoledge and power dvd just don't work with geobox. You get 3d playback with subtitles splitted to left and right and displayed on top of eachother.

Attleast my expertize did not get me to finnish with this subject. Gaming is awsome with pc but i think that's about it if someanyone can't prome wrong.


By the way take that infitech onto another thread, it's okay to mention about some other tech but don't come showeling it.


----------



## zorg43x

Hu niids sabtaitls

















So can someone outline what kind of preprocessing would be necessary to the best color output from omega filters? Perhaps it could really be somehow programmed, nowadays gfx card are hell of powerfull.

And what about customize the light engine? i.e. in 3LCD pj, which I am very satisfiet with, how to get there a xenon bulb somehow?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint

Well,

No matter what I do I cant get the stacked w1070s to line up, one is off to the left and down and gives a larger image then the other with exactly the same zoom and focus settings. Bloody nightmare. Shop is gonna let me take there demo one and try get a matching pair, but Ive gotta pay full price for it, then when I bring back the reject/faulty one they will refund me the money. Thats assuming I can get matching pair. I thought they would all be the same from the factory. Shop not being very helpful at all.


Its killing me having to wait to see the 3d passive image ....


----------



## Vaan Janne

All lenses are unic.

You will never find exact pair. Just buy the geobox501 ;-)


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23485297
> 
> 
> Well,
> 
> No matter what I do I cant get the stacked w1070s to line up, one is off to the left and down and gives a larger image then the other with exactly the same zoom and focus settings. Bloody nightmare. Shop is gonna let me take there demo one and try get a matching pair, but Ive gotta pay full price for it, then when I bring back the reject/faulty one they will refund me the money. Thats assuming I can get matching pair. I thought they would all be the same from the factory. Shop not being very helpful at all.
> 
> 
> Its killing me having to wait to see the 3d passive image ....





Are you mounting the filters in the projector behind the lens or putting them externally?

The short throw of your projectors may be some of the reason you are having trouble lining them up.

are you ceiling mounting them?


You could get a couple of small adjustable shelves and give yourself some more wiggle room, not just the adjuster wheel in the front of the projector.


Maybe try them side by side instead of over under, or

look in the projector settings menu and make sure they are both set back to factory settings.


Keep going!!

The passive image is worth it.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23485729
> 
> 
> Are you mounting the filters in the projector behind the lens or putting them externally?
> 
> The short throw of your projectors may be some of the reason you are having trouble lining them up.
> 
> are you ceiling mounting them?
> 
> 
> You could get a couple of small adjustable shelves and give yourself some more wiggle room, not just the adjuster wheel in the front of the projector.
> 
> 
> Maybe try them side by side instead of over under, or
> 
> look in the projector settings menu and make sure they are both set back to factory settings.
> 
> 
> Keep going!!
> 
> The passive image is worth it.



I'm Mounting filter kit externally for now, plan is to get it all setup, get all working and then sell the external filters to buy internal kit and then fit internally so looks better,if even more hassle. Eventually will invest in a 201 as cant figure out how to use stereoscopic player right to get 2 separate images on each projector and in sync.



I have just put them side to side again and got them to line up left to centre, then they begin to split up from centre to the rightside all the way to the edge. I did make a temp stacked holder but need to make an adjustable one and one with thinner shelf then what Ive mocked up today as there to far apart and need alot of rear packing on the rear of the top one to get them close. Have lens shift all way up on one and all way down on other, but still about 4" apart at bottom.


Gonna keep at it before giving up as really want passive.


I'm getting sick of family saying "Are they meant to be used stacked" and "you will never get them to line up as there not meant to be used in that way" and "there not meant to be exactly the same zoom and focus from factory"


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23485608
> 
> 
> you should be able to get them to line up even with the lenses not being exact. dont worry that the two are exactly on top of eachother. can you move the mounts around ? try it with the two just sitting on a table side by side move one closer a little than the other if the image is smaller. *if they are close but not exact it will not been seen in 3d with the glasses on*. the 1070's are short throw so i suppose any lens differance is exagerated some.



Ah,

I thought had to be even across screen otherwise 3d would look bad or wouldn't work 100% ?? wish epson would sell there fully adjustable twin stack ceiling mount separately form there twin stacked passive projector kit they sell inc 2 of there projectors.


Oh,

Will tilted one of the projectors up or down to get them to line up affect the image at all? If yes, would using keystone to correct it cause problems??


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23485400
> 
> 
> All lenses are unic.
> 
> You will never find exact pair. Just buy the geobox501 ;-)



If had the cash buddy would love to, but debts mean limited funds available to me. Importing one would also add more money to the total.



Would love curved screen in my room







One can dream eh.....


----------



## imbloodyskint

WELL,

The continued trial and error route is beginning to pay off with the w1070 alignment problems Ive been having. The main reason they were not even across the test pattern was purely down to the 1 small adjustable rear foot, I wondered what benq were doing with just 1 adjustable rear foot, now I bloody know why they put it there....

It turns out that by turning it in or out alters the skew of the image and helps align it up correctly. So now I have an aligned image to a 1mm point and now just need to remake my temporary stacked projector holder setup so as both w1070s are as close together as I can get them, because as soon as I attempt to tilt one of them to bring its image downwards so as to completely align both images, the alignment goes out of whack again.


Need 2 x 2-3mm alloy sheet, cut to fit precisely the w1070 with a cutout for the lens shift cover and to go under the 2 rear feet being as that adjustable one is as I now know very important when it comes to image alignment and 2 or 4? side brackets to bolt them together.


Feel abit more relaxed now, even though its 1.45am (lol)


----------



## imbloodyskint

So,

I Couldn't wait to check it out, so stacked em up, laid LH Filter directly in front of the lens of the bottom w1070 and then handheld the RH Filter directly flat on and infront of the top w1070s lens.


Have to run them in eco mode because the fan on both of them is just to loud for my ears in normal mode. Then again the only thing Ive got left is my painfully at times excellent hearing.(can hear a bug fart at 10ft)


First thing I noticed, is the glasses just ain't gonna work for me, mainly because my own prescription glasses get in the way of them so stopping the from being closer to my face, therefore leaving just enough gap that my right eye can see the darker image in its peripheral vision from the left lens and my father has even bigger glasses, so no chance of him wearing them










Right, (please dont take this as any kind of review as its not fully setup yet)

Back to my first experience of passive 3d at home (90" screen). Now, Im guessing I haven't got the filters setup right because I had quite abit of ghosting in the image(not seen with active hd33) on the odd occasion which was mainly at the back of the image and around the sides.

While Depth was ok at times, the usual pop out from this Bluray was not good at all. Now maybe im just expecting to much, but I was hoping it would be alot better then active 3d.


Hopefully the magic screen paint will work wonders on the image/depth and pop out and Im hoping my temp filter mounting technique, if you can call it that(lol) was the reason for the ghosting and lack of depth and pop out. Here's hoping.


I still cant figureout how to run 2 seperate images from the pc to both projectors at the same time using stereoscopic player, so for now I had my laptop sending the LH image and pc sending the RH image. Boy was it fun getting them in sync....


I used dvdfab8 to demux the imax space Bluray to get the seperate L+R Images.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint

So, even if I set it to its max throw ratio of 1.5:1 it wont work with these filters?? If not, then my only option is to buy the internal kit.

Don't really wanna get rid of the w1070's because I am loving the huge 123inch screen Im getting in my small 11 foot wide bedroom/soon to be cinema room.










The 4500 is(for me) to much. Ive got a 560ti and that has a twin screen option of extending or duplicating/cloning the first screen onto a second screen.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23492355
> 
> 
> no the 1.5:1 should be ok. its just the lower end of where the filters work well. you should not be getting any ghosting or crosstalk though. *make sure the filters are at a 90 deg angle to the image beam, not 90 deg to the lens*.



Did wonder if it might be this. Ive got one with lens shift set to up and one lens shift set to down. So, will the 10% up and down lens shift change the angle of the beam?

I just assumed it lifted the position of the beam up or down without changing the angle of it, because I dont need to use keystone on it unless I actually tilt the projectors, which I haven't done?

I've asked the ebay seller for a price inc delivery for just 2 of the smaller filters with glasses as already got 5 pair with the first kit.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23492355
> 
> 
> no the 1.5:1 should be ok. its just the lower end of where the filters work well. you should not be getting any ghosting or crosstalk though. make sure the filters are at a 90 deg angle to the image beam, not 90 deg to the lens.



How do you tell the difference ?

I also thought the beam comes straight out of the lense ?


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23492890
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-Depth-Defining-Experimenter-Kit-3D-system-Economical-Starter-Complete-/310685186397
> 
> 
> here is the experimenters kit with 2 pairs of glasses for 125$. ask the seller for just the filters



Have already sent him the question at 2.20am lastnight(uk) after reading your post about the lens throw being a problem and suggesting the internal kit










No reply as of yet.


I wonder why he charges 5 times the shipping cost for this basic smaller unmounted filter kit with just 2 pair of glasses compared to the shipping charge for the $369 kit with larger filters and 5 pair of glasses??


Will see what he offers for just 2 of the 25x25 filter off cuts inc shipping.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23493007
> 
> 
> How do you tell the difference ?
> 
> I also thought the beam comes straight out of the lense ?



I just realized that the image comes out at an angle, either slightly upward or downward depending on if its mounted rightway up or upside down.


Heres the w1070 manual, look at page 16

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_manual_7265.pdf


----------



## l88bastard

I found that these cheap clips that i got on ebay worked the best to get the filters angled properly
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/l88bastard/media/Clipsinaction.jpg.html


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *l88bastard*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23495947
> 
> 
> I found that these cheap clips that i got on ebay worked the best to get the filters angled properly
> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/l88bastard/media/Clipsinaction.jpg.html



Look good mate.


I'd assumed you would have to have both filters set at the same angles?


----------



## Vaan Janne

How in the world can the beam be that angled ? And how i the first place you can tell if it is angled and to what direction ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philiwahnilli*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23388685
> 
> 
> 
> My Hardware:
> 
> - Geobox 201
> 
> - 2x Benq W1070 (1920x1080 DLP, 2000 lumens, 10%(of image height) vertical lensshift, 1,15-1,5 throw)
> 
> - Omega DLP small 3D kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK the performance:
> 
> 
> I have the geobox 201, so alignment has to be done manually. Even with lens shift (which is just enough with the BENQ W1070) image alignment is a nightmare, but once you got it, you really have FULL HD, no Flicker or crosstalk and a really great picture. In my opinion, it's much better and brighter than the commercial cinemas. I'm enjoying it a lot.



Can you help me with alignment please because so far I have just yesterday returned 1 of my w1070 because they were not lining up, it was replaced with there demo version and while slightly better alignment, I can align very close at 94" screen with less throw,(no good with these filters) but when use the max throw/zoom(minimum needed for these filters) to get 120" screen I want the alignment goes way off from matching at bottom to over 1" gap from centre of image to top and abit to the left.

I just cant get them aligned unless using less throw/zoom.


This is second one with lower lens shift then other one from factory when set at its down setting.


Rightnow Im past my 7 day return on the first one, but can return the replacement within next 6 days. which I will do if I cant get them to align close and even enough to be usable.


Both are sat perfectly flat above each other with top one moved slightly more forward/closer to the wall/screen with just a 5mm thick shelf between them with a cutout for the bottoms slightly higher/raised lens shift cover.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Well, seems my whole room is bloody off one way or another because just by moving my temp made stack setup to anther part of room, it lines up alot better, not 100%, but a hell of alot better. Only thing is, still have to have one of them slightly forward of the other one and adjust focus to match up both the image sizes.

Lefthand side of the menu doesnt line up with the other menu, but as you can see the actual lines in and around 75-80% of centre outwards are near perfect, just bottom from left egde coming about 4 squares to the right and 6 squares up from the bottom left are out and far right top corner a few squares are out slightly.

 


Based on what I now know, it would appear the projector I returned was not the one with the out of spec throw/zoom, the reason I say this is because the one on the bottom still needs to be 10-15mm closer to the wall then the NOW temp replacement demo they let me take after giving them back the first one,(but it did seem to be running the fan up and down alot, so suspect it was overheating abit anyway)


Now,

What do I do next regarding matching machines.


Keep the demo machine (on 1.4FW) and the other one, thats clearly out of spec(on 1.5FW) (throw slightly out and lens shift/position is up quite abit compared to both other w1070s.) now that I have them aligned really good,but can never get the full menu completely aligned.


OR,


Take both back to shop, and ask for 2 new ones and HOPE they have matching throw ratios and lens shift height(when set max down and max up lens shift)


----------



## l88bastard

They dont have to line up perfecrly exact and they never will unless you have two projectors with aweqome lens shift. Stop being so anal and enjoy your setup.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *l88bastard*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23504349
> 
> 
> They dont have to line up perfecrly exact and they never will unless you have two projectors with aweqome lens shift. Stop being so anal and enjoy your setup.













Thats what happens being a bit of a perfectionist. spending near 7 days so far tryin to line up the first pair, then another 1-2 days lining up the replacement shop demo W1070 with the first one I kept.


While they still dont have matching throw/zoom ratios I'm very happy. Now I need to findout what the difference is between benqs 1.4 and 1.5FW.


Now,

I want to buy the 2 smaller internal filters from the $125 usd kit and resell the external kit as no good really for w1070 as I've foundout, but the ebay guy still hasnt replied to my question about buying just the 2 smaller filters.


I have just tried it, but hard to get right holding filters infront of both lens by hand (lol) and noticed when lined up so the filter reflects light back into lens as suggested, it then lights up the lower part of the room and below the screen, even giving off a shadow of edge of my bed below the screen.


Also,

If your using your pc like me to play the files and either cant afford or just don't want to have to buy an nvidia quadro card or a demux box, and can be bothered using a demux program to demux your BD3D discs and spending 5-10 seconds syncing up the L+H images every time you wanna watch a 3D Movie, then,

All you need to do is extend your desktop in nvidia menu,

Then create 2 shortcuts to whatever video player you use then,

Leave shortcut(1) on main NO.1 Desktop with toolbar on, then drag shortcut(2) to the extended desktop side, then

Open both, load L file onto one and R file onto the other, press play on one, then the other and then spend 5-10 seconds syncing them up using the pause button.


----------



## l88bastard

You have to remember that for the 3d effect to work both eyes have to see a slighty askew image than the other, so your screens being slightly misaligned is not going to matter one bit anyway. You have them more than aligned to get a desireable effect, take a look again at the picture of my two projectors, they were no where near each other phyically and one had to be back slightly farther and the other had to have more zoom applied. In the end I still got an amazing 1080p 60hz effect.


----------



## imbloodyskint

I am happy with it now after all the nightmare of getting the test grid aligned.


The one I returned did have the fans kicking in ALOT more then the others, it seemed like every 5minutes it was spinning up and down, were as the other ones are constant, if abit noisy fan bearings on one of them and a not to loud high pitch noise coming from the rh side vents which I noticed lastnight. The bearing and high pitch only start about 40-45minutes after starting the projector.

So,

Do I return another one or chance it and hope it doesn't get any louder because its not to loud now??


----------



## Rugrash

I just saw a YouTube video of a custumer using your filters, she says she bought them from VIP3D. She also mistakenly called them Optoma filters, but inserted text correcting her mistake. Looking at the video and the angles of the projectors (both pointing down) along with there being at least a 12 inches seperating them, I can't imagine the filters are aligned properly. She has them scotch taped to the front, this can't be 90 degrees to the beam can it? Perhaps if they were sitting flat on the shelves, but she must be using a lots of either optical or digital correctionsince she's using a 3D Evolver to demuxand it doesn't have warping as far as I know.


So I'm pointing this out because I wonder if VIP is an official retailer of your filters now? If so are they passing along the appropriate directions to correctly align the filters?


Maybe I'm wrong but nothing looks right about her setup and it's more than likely a poor representation of the extinction and quality that one could achieve with an Omega setup.


Here's a link to the video, anyone else agree that it just looks wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMWfpLHSW0 


She naively goes on to claim that RealD glasses work with it as well in her comments below.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Don't know how the filters can be working because as motorman45 has said before, they need to be 90 degree to the beam, not lens.

She could of at least waited till the evening before making the video because the image is so washed out its a waste of time.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23513599
> 
> *the filters will work at the angle she has them at. it is not perfect but works as she is using longer or normal throw distance projectors. the issue is exagerated with shorter throw units*. if she put up a 3d test pattern and adjusted the filter angles while looking thru the glasses she would see subtle improvments to the brightness and image.
> 
> its great to see an end user video. that evolver is a really good product.



Ah,

Got ya buddy. Now I get it.


On a different note, c

Could you give ben price a quick poke because I've still not had a response to my request for just a pair of smaller filters for internal fitment on my w1070 as like you say, while they work there not exactly perfect for the external kit and will should/will get better results fittings filters internally due to the short throw and the not so perfect throw ratio range for the filters.


Ian


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint

Oops!!!

Sorry Ben.










I do get confused easily at times. Thankyou. I will await his reply. I am happy to do outside of ebay if that saves you guys a little bit on the ebay and paypal fee's Ben?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23516880
> 
> 
> Here are the small experimenters projection filters by themselves, no glasses. this is for those wanting to try internal mounting of the filters, works especially well in shrot throw and ultra short throw projectors like the Benq W1070 and the Optoma GT750 DLP projectors. $90
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-Depth-Defining-Experimenter-Kit-3D-system-Starter-Kit-No-Glasses-/310704504050?hash=item48576e7cf2#ht_3379wt_1091



Did you get my last pm ben regarding these? Included my direct email address to send invoice to.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23493007
> 
> 
> How do you tell the difference ?
> 
> I also thought the beam comes straight out of the lense ?




If you look at the beam coming out of the projector in the dark you will see the angle, that is why you can set them on a table and project upwards or on the ceiling and project downwards.

Just set them up 90-deg to the beam


----------



## Vaan Janne

Thanks man now im blind ! I looked at the beam like you told me and it cost my eyes.

I was so in agony i tried even chopping my hand off to kill the pain from the eyes, but it backfired and with the little eyesite i had left i accidently

Cut off my long ***** that is always in the way and had swong onto the chopping block....so greetings from my wife too!


...okei for real . i have never noticed any tilt... better have a closer look.


----------



## peterbus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23513487
> 
> 
> I just saw a YouTube video of a custumer using your filters, she says she bought them from VIP3D. She also mistakenly called them Optoma filters, but inserted text correcting her mistake. Looking at the video and the angles of the projectors (both pointing down) along with there being at least a 12 inches seperating them, I can't imagine the filters are aligned properly. She has them scotch taped to the front, this can't be 90 degrees to the beam can it? Perhaps if they were sitting flat on the shelves, but she must be using a lots of either optical or digital correctionsince she's using a 3D Evolver to demuxand it doesn't have warping as far as I know.
> 
> 
> So I'm pointing this out because I wonder if VIP is an official retailer of your filters now? If so are they passing along the appropriate directions to correctly align the filters?
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but nothing looks right about her setup and it's more than likely a poor representation of the extinction and quality that one could achieve with an Omega setup.
> 
> 
> Here's a link to the video, anyone else agree that it just looks wrong?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMWfpLHSW0
> 
> 
> She naively goes on to claim that RealD glasses work with it as well in her comments below.


Looking at the video she is using omega filters but she is right about the evolver if you use polarized filters with it you can use reald glasses.


----------



## JaMiR

Bought Omega kit 4-5 moths ago but never but it in use. There was a reason for that and it is because i really like gaming with S3D. There was no way to get nVidia 3D Vision to work with dual projection systems with desktop geforces. My tight budged prevented me to go Quadro line and AMD off course mean stuck with TriDef. I want both. Tridef +3D Vision to get max numbers of games to work good quality 3D. Tridef dual output with desktop line do not give framelock so left and right are not displayed same time. One of the key feature with Dual projection is to get both images displayed at same time. With AMD desktop line there is trick to do this with eyefinity 3840x1080 but no 3D Vision then. This is the reason i but my dual projection project on hold. So what i need is Quadro line gfx card, prob two of them. I have at the moment 670GTX and there is a way to make system see it as Quadro K5000 and get features needed. It's hardware trick and involves soldering very tiny 1mm x 0,5mm resistors but i'm ready to do that(practiced on old MB







).


My goal is to get frame locked dual projection working on Tridef and 3D Vision with wonderful Helixmod's.


Quadro drivers should provide frame lock with 3D Vision >>> Link 


With Tridef you should able to use Mosaic(Only for Quadro) 3840x1080p mode with SBS rendering = frame locked Stereo.


I'm not yet done this myself so...I dunno is this all work but i will try it anyway.


Here is link to show how to hack geforce to Quadro. I't goes without saying that doing this hack may render your GFX useless









HACK


----------



## Vaan Janne

Don't know about any of you here but i got best playback experience cutting 24p in the middle of the chain.

By this i mean if i run avatar with my panasonic bdt500 -> geobox 501

Panasonic has 24p enabled and geobox shows me about getting 24p

I have panasonic ax200's hooked to geobox averyone knows they are 720p projectors.

Anyways when i use geobox with output of 720p i get sweet picture with fast and sharp framerate

But if switch the output to fullhdd i think the playback suffers in fast camera moves.

Maby it's just me but i always find 24fps abit sluggish and not enough.


Any thoughts ?


----------



## JaMiR

I have done testing with one projector to see what to expect in terms of ghosting. It seems to be not perfect as some leakage is happening after all. It's not bad but could be better(about same as DLP-link with sainsonic glasses). Using filters only so that say left is front of lens and look through right is much better(nothing can match this i would say). I assume that it's not possible to use filters only to make "custom" glasses? Will there be some color issues or something? I have W1070 and plan to order those even smaller filters and mod them inside, so i would have extra pair of filters.


----------



## Rugrash

I'm uncertain if it was this thread or the other where I mentioned Nvidia was implementing Dual Display mode for 4K tvs/monitors.


It seems that they made it EDID specific to allow only a few displays. So still no joy for Dual Passive Projection on GTX GPUs.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/1


----------



## Vaan Janne

I don't think the hotspotting is really any big problem. I's super easy to make a curved screen.

Aluminium frame with metal threaded rods to up and down to make the curving into the screen material after you have

Tied it to the frame. Good curving and there is no visual hotspot but unified color.


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23542778
> 
> 
> Bought Omega kit 4-5 moths ago but never but it in use. There was a reason for that and it is because i really like gaming with S3D. There was no way to get nVidia 3D Vision to work with dual projection systems with desktop geforces. My tight budged prevented me to go Quadro line and AMD off course mean stuck with TriDef. I want both. Tridef +3D Vision to get max numbers of games to work good quality 3D. Tridef dual output with desktop line do not give framelock so left and right are not displayed same time. One of the key feature with Dual projection is to get both images displayed at same time. With AMD desktop line there is trick to do this with eyefinity 3840x1080 but no 3D Vision then. This is the reason i but my dual projection project on hold. So what i need is Quadro line gfx card, prob two of them. I have at the moment 670GTX and there is a way to make system see it as Quadro K5000 and get features needed. It's hardware trick and involves soldering very tiny 1mm x 0,5mm resistors but i'm ready to do that(practiced on old MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> My goal is to get frame locked dual projection working on Tridef and 3D Vision with wonderful Helixmod's.
> 
> 
> Quadro drivers should provide frame lock with 3D Vision >>> Link
> 
> 
> With Tridef you should able to use Mosaic(Only for Quadro) 3840x1080p mode with SBS rendering = frame locked Stereo.
> 
> 
> I'm not yet done this myself so...I dunno is this all work but i will try it anyway.
> 
> 
> Here is link to show how to hack geforce to Quadro. I't goes without saying that doing this hack may render your GFX useless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HACK



Hello Jager or should I say JaMiR









I also want to do exactly the same as know but with two H9500BD









You explained the problem very well and I support you 100%! I'm just a few steps from you but wait for it...









I have bought one today! I'm still using my optoma hd300x and I'm eager to compare both solutions and to enjoy gaming in 3d 1080 60Hz with both 3d vision and tridef.


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23547262
> 
> 
> I'm uncertain if it was this thread or the other where I mentioned Nvidia was implementing Dual Display mode for 4K tvs/monitors.
> 
> 
> It seems that they made it EDID specific to allow only a few displays. So still no joy for Dual Passive Projection on GTX GPUs.
> 
> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/1



Dual Passive Projection on GTX GPUs is possible if you hack your gtx into a quadro...


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soulnight*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23549880
> 
> 
> Hello Jager or should I say JaMiR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also want to do exactly the same as know but with two H9500BD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You explained the problem very well and I support you 100%! I'm just a few steps from you but wait for it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have bought one today! I'm still using my optoma hd300x and I'm eager to compare both solutions and to enjoy gaming in 3d 1080 60Hz with both 3d vision and tridef.



Hello to you too









I'm going to order another set of filters tomorrow and another W1070. Need to mod filters inside like philiwahnilli did, nice mod by the way







. Maybe miniature servo could be used to move those filters when doing single projector 2D.

I hope there is a way to use those "K5000" SLI enabled to get playable frame rates at 1080p 60hz










PS.2xH9500BD could be perfect match for Omega 3D.


----------



## peterbus

  

2x optoma 600xs + 2 x 3D-XLs,I still find my right eye a bit darker than my left,is this the way it's support to be?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23545921
> 
> 
> Don't know about any of you here but i got best playback experience cutting 24p in the middle of the chain.
> 
> By this i mean if i run avatar with my panasonic bdt500 -> geobox 501
> 
> Panasonic has 24p enabled and geobox shows me about getting 24p
> 
> I have panasonic ax200's hooked to geobox averyone knows they are 720p projectors.
> 
> Anyways when i use geobox with output of 720p i get sweet picture with fast and sharp framerate
> 
> But if switch the output to fullhdd i think the playback suffers in fast camera moves.
> 
> Maby it's just me but i always find 24fps abit sluggish and not enough.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts ?



Ok, i thin there is just something wrong with something,and it's propably not 24p modes fault. The 24p icture looks good if you don't count the anomalities that happen time to time and especially in fast motion scenes. Could it be my hdmi cable ? It's 1.4 but not any pricey one.

Steve at avs said geobox could have some issues if the display device is not fullhd, and don't have motion estimate and motion compensation. I dont know if panasonic ax200 has those but normal 2d picture worked before the geobox. Allthough the hdmi cable has changed after that so it might be that.

Has anyone experienced vierd frame drops on fullhd 24p with cheaper hdmi. ?


...allthough all my hdmi cabels are 1.4 highspeed fujitech

the only 1.3 cable is between the geobox and one of two ax200 .


----------



## JaMiR

I had/have some dust problem with my W1070 and decided to some cleaning. Suspected that dust may be inside light engine and it was there. Here is some pics about the dust problem and you can get nice look inside. I think i will try to make filter that can be installed from "service" hole if filter that can go through that hole is big enough. I used lenspen for cleaning and it seems that brush did some scratches to mirror(very hard to see, don't think it will affect image but be careful). There is still some dust and i think some dust can go inside anyway...

 

 


PS.What is best way to clean these as dust just seem to like to hang on these.


----------



## Rugrash

I was going to suggest a Zerostat anti-static gun, but they are a hundred bucks now.


I have one I bought in the 80's, in a LP cleaning kit for $20, plus it included cleaning fluid with a dust swipe.


I read where a guy suggests a modified BBQ lighter http://www.stereophile.com/content/milty-zerostat-3


----------



## Rugrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23550252
> 
> 
> 
> I hope there is a way to use those "K5000" SLI enabled to get playable frame rates at 1080p 60hz



I thought you were hacking your GTX GPU into a Quadro?


Nvidia unveiled their K6000 at Siggraph today. It's pretty beefy


•12GB ultra-fast GDDR5 graphics memory

•2,880 streaming multiprocessor (SMX) cores


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23561094
> 
> 
> I thought you were hacking your GTX GPU into a Quadro?
> 
> 
> Nvidia unveiled their K6000 at Siggraph today. It's pretty beefy
> 
> 
> •12GB ultra-fast GDDR5 graphics memory
> 
> •2,880 streaming multiprocessor (SMX) cores



Yes i'm hacking GTX670 to "K5000".

That K6000 looks like a nice card. It is 780/TITAN pro counterpart and i think there will be way to hack both of those to "K6000". With hacked 780/TITAN there would be good frame rates when gaming 1080p 60hz 3D without SLI. I think i will get one of those 780's and look if it is possible.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23558409
> 
> 
> I had/have some dust problem with my W1070 and decided to some cleaning. Suspected that dust may be inside light engine and it was there. Here is some pics about the dust problem and you can get nice look inside. I think i will try to make filter that can be installed from "service" hole if filter that can go through that hole is big enough. I used lenspen for cleaning and it seems that brush did some scratches to mirror(very hard to see, don't think it will affect image but be careful). There is still some dust and i think some dust can go inside anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS.What is best way to clean these as dust just seem to like to hang on these.





Static is your problem but cleaning optics is not tricky, you need Some good quality Alcohol (not rubbing alcohol)and a lint free lab towel.

Saturate the lab towel and wipe the mirror gently, then blow it off with a puffer of some sort.(nasal aspirator for kids work good, just make sure there are no boogers in there)

Wiping mirrors with dry brushes is not a good idea.

After you puff it off seal it up.

Minor scratches on mirrors will probably not effect the image quality.


----------



## Rugrash

I just came across a wbsite selling Omega 3D filters/glasses http://www.studio3d.com/omega3d/index.html 


Is this your website motorman45?


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23563070
> 
> 
> I just came across a wbsite selling Omega 3D filters/glasses http://www.studio3d.com/omega3d/index.html
> 
> 
> Is this your website motorman45?



no not my site but he is a dealer of our products, one of the first we had, a good guy with many years offering 3d products.


----------



## Rugrash

Yah, I kinda figured it wasn't your site simply due to the fixed filter mounting offered in the dual PJ rack. I was certain, you would have offered/designed something adjustable for the lens mounting.


While I can in no way be certain due to not knowing the characteristics of the projectors in each picture, but my assuption is that they show poor filter placement in most, if not all of them.


This was another clue that it may not be your site. Just pointing it out, for what it's worth.


I hope all is going well and that more and more people are happilly using Omega filtering technolgy day by day.


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23561500
> 
> 
> Yes i'm hacking GTX670 to "K5000".
> 
> That K6000 looks like a nice card. It is 780/TITAN pro counterpart and i think there will be way to hack both of those to "K6000". With hacked 780/TITAN there would be good frame rates when gaming 1080p 60hz 3D without SLI. I think i will get one of those 780's and look if it is possible.



I agree with you. A modded geforce gtx 780 into K6000 would have enough horsepower for 1080p 60hz 3D but a single gtx 680 would have problems running games smoothly when keeping the graphic options on ultra or very high in games.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soulnight*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23565331
> 
> 
> I agree with you. A modded geforce gtx 780 into K6000 would have enough horsepower for 1080p 60hz 3D but a single gtx 680 would have problems running games smoothly when keeping the graphic options on ultra or very high in games.



allthough if you use tridef power3d saves lot´s of power and is pretty good in many games.

but offcourse raw power is always rawpower and there is never too much


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23565838
> 
> 
> allthough if you use tridef power3d saves lot´s of power and is pretty good in many games.
> 
> but offcourse raw power is always rawpower and there is never too much



But power3d from tridef has "false 3D" like for crysis 2 ...


----------



## Vaan Janne

i have not tried it on crysis 2, i found it crappy at the best in 2d . i used tridef with crysis 3 , allthough then i played with passive 3d at my asus passive display that uses line interlaced 3d

it looked many times better with tridef than with games own 3d enabled + it runned 45-70 about frames with single gtx660ti / vs. under 30 fps about allthe time with games own 3d . just at the wery end i had to use the games own 3d course tridef drivers started to hang and the game crashed to windows at random time.


But i´ll hail my greetings to Tridef for good 3d experience with my budget 660ti.


what is "false 3d " ?

if you watch an erotic dance number by a great looking girl does it matter at the end if it was a man, if you found it exiting ?


----------



## JaMiR

I'm planning to buy Da-Lite HP 2.4 screen and wondering if it's any good for Omega 3D?


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23574004
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy Da-Lite HP 2.4 screen and wondering if it's any good for Omega 3D?



It will work but you don't have to have a Silver screen for it to work


----------



## peterbus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/330#post_23554692
> 
> 
> the right should not be darker than the left , but from the photo it looks like slight angle differances between the mountings of the filters may be making this happen. both filters need to be 90 deg to the image beam for ideal performance, try adjusting them a little.


Moved them 90 deg and closer to the lens,that helped,cheers


----------



## Rugrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23574004
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy Da-Lite HP 2.4 screen and wondering if it's any good for Omega 3D?



Keep in mind that when using a high gain sceen the viewing angle is somewhat narrow.


Viewers off to the side lose the benifits of the increased gain and can experience color shift from being off axis.


Also high gain screens limit your projector and screen placement in relation to the horizontal viewing plane of the audience.


----------



## JaMiR

I have done a bit of testing with Omega 3D filters and two W1070. Colors seems to be real issue with W1070 it seems. I seem to get no green from other projector when filter is mounted(at the moment, front of pj's). When using green shades to test and it's like no green at all from other filter, other looks great. Have moving filters around, adjusting colors but nothing seems to help. No matter if i look through glasses or not. It looks just same. Color difference is real big at the moment on my system. I can post pics about this problem later but basically green=yellow at the moment. Is there anything i can do about this?


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23603979
> 
> 
> I have done a bit of testing with Omega 3D filters and two W1070. Colors seems to be real issue with W1070 it seems. I seem to get no green from other projector when filter is mounted(at the moment, front of pj's). When using green shades to test and it's like no green at all from other filter, other looks great. Have moving filters around, adjusting colors but nothing seems to help. No matter if i look through glasses or not. It looks just same. Color difference is real big at the moment on my system. I can post pics about this problem later but basically green=yellow at the moment. Is there anything i can do about this?



tHE W1070 HAVING MAX THROW OF 1.5 IS NOT THE BEST FOR THESE FILTERS IF YOU WANT COLOUR UNIFORMITY WITH BOTH PICTURES.


Ive bought the internal filter kit to hopefully solve this problem, just hope the w1070 don,t have an faults in future as will be losing warranty by opening my 2 w1070's when I do finally get room finished and ready to mount the w1070's.


If id had a 3ft longer room I WOULD of bought optoma instead, because they have better throw for these filters and the hd33 also has the option to choose to just show the 3D's L or R image, hence no need for 3dxl or geo 201 box.


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23604002
> 
> 
> tHE W1070 HAVING MAX THROW OF 1.5 IS NOT THE BEST FOR THESE FILTERS IF YOU WANT COLOUR UNIFORMITY WITH BOTH PICTURES.
> 
> 
> Ive bought the internal filter kit to hopefully solve this problem, just hope the w1070 don,t have an faults in future as will be losing warranty by opening my 2 w1070's when I do finally get room finished and ready to mount the w1070's.
> 
> 
> If id had a 3ft longer room I WOULD of bought optoma instead, because they have better throw for these filters and the hd33 also has the option to choose to just show the 3D's L or R image, hence no need for 3dxl or geo 201 box.



I know limitations of W1070. After couple hours of gaming with tridef 3D dual projection output(it is sync with kepler GPU it seems) this color difference seems to be no big issuel(need more testing), colors looked great. Now i just need to make some servo controlled filter kit(inside), so i can use 2D without filters.


PS.too bad my 670 to K5000 did not worked out as hoped







. It's K5000 at the moment and Quadro drivers is installed but no actual K5000 features enabled. So tridef 3D is only way to game for some time at least. Maybe i will go and buy Q2000 for movies...


----------



## Rugrash

You do realize that this is an anaglyph stereoscopic solution.


You will never have both images at 100% color, because if you do there will not be a 3D effect.


You might try downloading Nvidia's standalone Mosaic driver, perhaps it's not packaged with Quadro drivers.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/mosaic-utility.html 


After hacking your card did you clean out the registry, perhaps it might help.


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rugrash*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23606240
> 
> 
> You do realize that this is an anaglyph stereoscopic solution.
> 
> 
> You will never have both images at 100% color, because if you do there will not be a 3D effect.
> 
> 
> You might try downloading Nvidia's standalone Mosaic driver, perhaps it's not packaged with Quadro drivers.
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/mosaic-utility.html
> 
> 
> After hacking your card did you clean out the registry, perhaps it might help.



Did try Mosaic utility(it is just command line tool btw) but no able to do 1X2 grid. Normally Mosaic is in nvidia control panel in workstation tree. There was no workstation tree for me and control panel was 100% same as when card was before mod. I got worksation tree(only ECC option) after flashed K5000 bios and then back to 670 bios(33kb leftovers from K5000 bios that contain at least some code for ECC). Did registry cleaning and tried several drivers. Did try nVidia inspector and 3D stereo settings that are there but without any succes. I'm starting to think that dual projection passive with 3D vision is not going to happen. For good FPS one need K6000 that will cost quite a lot of money(way too much for me). It is hard to see that nVidia enables those "pro" 3D vision features for Geforce users.


After some hours of gaming with tridef dual projection i'm 100% sure that outputs are synced so that is nice one. Too bad there is no support for DX10 or 11 and there might never be...


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23607984
> 
> 
> using your current graphics card you could also simply get the 201 demultiplexer we offer for $699 and any game that can output in stereo mode will be split. i run this setup and it games perfectly.



Not like to add more hardware. These things will always increase latency. W1070 has very low input lag so maybe adding 201 is not too bad. I think however that 201 do not support 1080p 120hz input? 1080p 60hz 3D was one of the key features i was looking when started this project. There is one demultiplexer that suport 3D vision and 1080p 120hz but it is quite expensive. If 201 can be made seen as Generic CRT(this is how 3D vis sees my 2560x1600 monitor), then it is possible to do 720p 120hz 3D vision(or 1080p if 201 support it). 3D Vision with helix mods is something i do not want to left behind. There is so many games now that works 100% correct in stereo with 3Dvision+helixmod and now that helix is working with DX11 wrapper, 3D vision future looks quite good too.


PS.Link to Helix Mod to see what i do not want to miss







---> Helix Mod


----------



## Vaan Janne

what was the word about sonys lcos projectors, the dlp technic was the most compatible with omega filtters but how about Lcos ?

sony seems great in terms of black level and audible noise.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23629502
> 
> 
> what was the word about sonys lcos projectors, the dlp technic was the most compatible with omega filtters but how about Lcos ?
> 
> sony seems great in terms of black level and audible noise.



im planning to buy a new set of 2 and" i don´t wan´t now rainbow, i just wanna a shy guy" on my pherical vision, so how has sony owners reported, how´s your filtters treating sony hw30 or 50 ?

motoman to please answer the call ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23611332
> 
> 
> Not like to add more hardware. These things will always increase latency. W1070 has very low input lag so maybe adding 201 is not too bad. I think however that 201 do not support 1080p 120hz input? 1080p 60hz 3D was one of the key features i was looking when started this project. There is one demultiplexer that suport 3D vision and 1080p 120hz but it is quite expensive. If 201 can be made seen as Generic CRT(this is how 3D vis sees my 2560x1600 monitor), then it is possible to do 720p 120hz 3D vision(or 1080p if 201 support it). 3D Vision with helix mods is something i do not want to left behind. There is so many games now that works 100% correct in stereo with 3Dvision+helixmod and now that helix is working with DX11 wrapper, 3D vision future looks quite good too.
> 
> 
> PS.Link to Helix Mod to see what i do not want to miss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---> Helix Mod



Yes Motormann: have you tried the 201 demultiplexer with 1080p 60hz 3D? It means: no Xbox360 or ps3 but PC...


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Frank

I think I would buy one of these systems if I can be sure it will allow me to do what I currently do using checkerboard mode, horizontal interleave and 120 hertz 3D monitor and that is display 3D applications on my Windows desktop without having them have to be full screen. I tried simulating it using my Nvidia Quadro 4000 and 2 monitors but I can not get it to work.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Frank




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/360#post_23646817
> 
> 
> is there anywherei could download video like this, checkerboard etc . if so i will try it with one of my rigs.



I do not think you understand.

One hundred percent of my stereoscopic 3D viewing is done via computer. I tend to have several windows open at one time and at least one of them is 3D. Everyday I sit on my couch and watch 3D streamed from my office via BINO with the output set to line interleaved mode. At the same time I have another window open running SlingPlayer so I can watch DirectTV at the same time. I also have other windows open for various other things.
]I would like to be able to do this in my Home Theater but I have not been able to find any 3D projector at any price that can do this.










I think there might be a way to do it using OpenGL but I am not sure how.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Frank

Could you tell me what the 3D setting are for the Quadro card?

Unfortunately I can not use Stereoscopic Player for my remote 3D streams as it doesn't support the streaming format. Bino does but has limited options for display.It has OpenGL which works with my 120 hertz ASUS monitor.

Perhaps you could try BINO instead of Stereoscopic Player and see if it works in a window?


----------



## Vaan Janne

I just don´t seem to find any suitable projector candidate for doing omega setup.

for starters could someone tell me what lumens would be enough for 113 inch diagonal silverscreen. it´s a curved screen.

first i thought of optoma hd-25e but those are not silent. and when you have two..hmm not good.

mitsubitshi 3900 has the lumens but according to reviews some rainbowing.

sony hw30 ain´t so bright, 1300 and measured even little.

infocus sp8602 seems good allthough it´s price like sony and not so bright eather.

optoma hd83 is only 22 db but only 1600 lumens, and measured propably lesser. or is it enough ?


i would like to have 2 candidates under 3000 and under 2000


i currently have ax200 with 2000 lumens. and with my HQ linear filtters (awater trucolor, i might be selling, ask if you are in need of pair) i i like the picture brightnes currently.

but i would like to run omega filtters, and they take alot more lumens than my current setup. so my new beamers should be like 2500 or more ? but also want good blacks. maby the equation is impossible to complete.


in order of importance


great 2d with smooth playback

high lumens

best compatibility with omega filtters

low audible noise..so low desibels

...last great blacks if possible.

i would like to go cheap but if it´s just not possible i propably have to

plan a funding and buy more expensive pair.

and low on rainbows.... i propably start looking for them if they occur often and it completely

ruins my movie experience.



HD82 or 8200 is found fairly cheap nowdays, but it´s 1300 lumens. is it gonna be too dim with the

omega filtters ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Frank




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23650683
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i set my quadro to dual diplay clone desktop and then the steroscopic player to dual output and its on. nothing special with the settings really.


When I try this Stereoscopic Player says 3D is available full screen only and it is true.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23650853
> 
> 
> When I try this Stereoscopic Player says 3D is available full screen only and it is true.



Yes thats tru even with purchased version


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23650712
> 
> 
> i understand about the noise level and rainbowing but the lumens are not as much as you think for a 113 " screen, especially a curved gain screen. my filters have higher throughput than liniar polarizers. we tested extensivley in theaters, way back in the ultimate thread we had a detailed talk about % efficiency. cinema RealD Z or liniar is about %15 efficient ours is clse to %20. and that is ours not on a gain screen but a matt white, you ad a silver screen to the mix and it will be fine even with what looks like low lumens. i run two 1700 lumen DLP optomas ( 1300 actual i think ) and on a 170" matt white screen it looks plenty bright. this is what i show people in our town when i run public demos for fun.



I don't understand. Are you saying your filtters are better than linear in terms of light loss in the filtters ? I understood omega filtters cutout even more light than linear polarizing filtters ? Allthough if the difference is 5% who cares.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Well F me im super stoked to hear that.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23650712
> 
> 
> i understand about the noise level and rainbowing but the lumens are not as much as you think for a 113 " screen, especially a curved gain screen. my filters have higher throughput than liniar polarizers. we tested extensivley in theaters, way back in the ultimate thread we had a detailed talk about % efficiency. cinema RealD Z or liniar is about %15 efficient ours is clse to %20. and that is ours not on a gain screen but a matt white, you ad a silver screen to the mix and it will be fine even with what looks like low lumens. i run two 1700 lumen DLP optomas ( 1300 actual i think ) and on a 170" matt white screen it looks plenty bright. this is what i show people in our town when i run public demos for fun.



how about the fact that hd82 has throw ratio of 1.5:1

is it a proplem ? can it be helped with internal installation ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23663445
> 
> 
> a throw of 1.5:1 works, it is just the lower end that we reccomend for best performance. i run my hd20's at 1.5: 1 throw all the time and if you look close on a totally white screen you see a very slight tint variation at the edges, in content it great and after showing hunderds of people in the demo i setup in our town not one has noticed or complained about anything due to color or anything else for that matter. its the best 3d most have seen, far better than the cinema down the street and im using cheap projectors relative.
> 
> i get the most critcal feedback from this site, and thats good.
> 
> the best info on internal mounting would come from the writeups in this post. i couldnt do any better than what has been posted. we do have internal mounting filters you can customize. they are on our ebay listings



but i can also customize the bigger ones if i find it needed ?


by the way,.. iunderstood wrong. the hd82 zoom is 1.5:1 and throw ratio is 1.5 ~ 2.28:1


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## David Tiede

Is it possible to install an internal filter in the BenQ W7000?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *l88bastard*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/300#post_23495947
> 
> 
> I found that these cheap clips that i got on ebay worked the best to get the filters angled properly
> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/l88bastard/media/Clipsinaction.jpg.html




Dude ,

Send me the link to these clips


[email protected]


Thanks


----------



## trgraphics

Where can I purchase the G-302? It sounds like what I need to align two projectors. Also, what is the cost? Can't fins any info on that.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23652390
> 
> 
> I don't understand. Are you saying your filtters are better than linear in terms of light loss in the filtters ? I understood omega filtters cutout even more light than linear polarizing filtters ? Allthough if the difference is 5% who cares.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23652603
> 
> 
> no the omega 3d system has higher overall sytem performance of lumens thru the system than linear polarizing. that %5 translates to %30 more lumens on screen than linear systems. i forget how far back this whole discussion was but its on there


From my testing with LCD projectors, (visual testing only, I do not have measurement instruments), the OMEGA filters provide about the same amount of light than linear polarisation filters. With specially optimised LCD filters, there is a noticeable difference (optimised polarised provides more light).

Note that my projectors have their primary colours cross polarised (some vertical, some horizontal) and in order to use standard linear polarisers, I need to set them at a 45/135° setting.


The behaviour is different on DLP projectors, there is no way to optimise the light output with polarised filters, so you should not be surprised that polarised filters behave badly.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23693160
> 
> 
> 
> From my testing with LCD projectors, (visual testing only, I do not have measurement instruments), the OMEGA filters provide about the same amount of light than linear polarisation filters. With specially optimised LCD filters, there is a noticeable difference (optimised polarised provides more light).
> 
> Note that my projectors have their primary colours cross polarised (some vertical, some horizontal) and in order to use standard linear polarisers, I need to set them at a 45/135° setting.
> 
> 
> The behaviour is different on DLP projectors, there is no way to optimise the light output with polarised filters, so you should not be surprised that polarised filters behave badly.



my linear filtters is announced to work both. lcd + dlp.

and if i remember correctly awater told me that dlp works better but lcd gives still good results... wierd...


i did not find my linear filtters good enough. ofcourse it might be the screen was not good enough..allthough i did tryout some samples of the dalite´s best 3d fabric ect,

and those samples did not seem to be any better atleast when hanged on top of my own silverscreen.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23693329
> 
> 
> my linear filtters is announced to work both. lcd + dlp.
> 
> and if i remember correctly awater told me that dlp works better but lcd gives still good results... wierd...


Sorry, I didn't mean linear filters behave badly on DLP projectors, I should have said you can't do the same type of leverage as you can with LCD projectors.

If the LCD projector's polarisation is balanced between your filters or if it has a depolarised output filter, then linear polarisation filters should behave the same on both LCD and DLP.

But the fact that most LCD projectors have some kind of internal polarisation bias, makes the use of linear polarised filters a bit more tricky on LCD projectors than DLP.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23695538
> 
> 
> in tests run in a shootout we did durring develpment of the omega system as well as published efficiency ratings from professional installers we beat liniar in % efficinecy. the results stacked up like this
> 
> RealD XL %28 ...Circualr pol ( high ghosting levels )
> 
> Omega 3D % 18-20 ...optical filters ( no ghosting )
> 
> XpanD %17 ...shutter glasses
> 
> RealD Z %15 ...Linear pol
> 
> Dolby %12 ...filters
> 
> these were calibrated performance measurements made with photoradiometers.


Indeed but the annoying thig with these figures is that : these professional cinema products do not match what most DIY home systems would use.


For example :

RealD Z is a single projector frame sequential solution with an liquid crystal polarisation switcher, so it doesn't produce the same light output than simple dual-projectors with linear filters would.

Reald XL does use a dual projector system but uses circular polarisation fitlers which have more crosstalk than linear filters (it's what I read, I haven't tested it myself)


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## CyclistMT

I have a question that is not specifically about the Omega system but related to the G-501 and I figured since you guys have used this box you might be able to help me out.


First, I do plan to use the Omega system so there is some relevance here.







I haven't decided on my projectors yet but I do plan on using DLP. My question is specifically related to 2.35:1 CIH. Obviously I want to use the Omega system for 3D but I also want to use both projectors for 2D for increased brightness and will leave the filters in place because I don't want to mess around with them. I plan to use the G-501 so I can get the pixel perfect alignment for my 2D viewing. BUT, I would also like to do a CIH scope screen and don't want to use anamorphic lenses or constantly change the zoom between 2.35:1 and 16:9 content if I can find a way to avoid that.


So, my question is, can you set up CIH on the G-501 and let it do the aspect ratio changes like the Lumagen box does? Can it also do non linear stretch like the Lumagen?


----------



## trgraphics

Very good question CyclistMT. I have a G=501 being delivered today that I purchased from Omega. It is difficult to get in depth info on the unit from the VNS website. I hope the unit comes with a detailed manual and if it does, I will pass along the info.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

I have the manual somewhere... i don,t know what you are refering to when you talk about cih, but i can tell you you can save settings in 501.but there is no auto load for what i know, allthough it remembers your settings. Offcourse uou could use universal remote with macros to load saved settings. You can pixel perfect two not so precise pictures and mask the images edges with masking funktion. I just used lens shift to align and 501 to do curved screen geometrics. I can't send you the manual, you only get it when you buy. ... okei now i got wht you were refering to. I have not tested but i think the image digital repositioning might not have that much room. If i find the manual i will look.


----------



## CyclistMT

Thanks guys. Any info you can find will be great. I have to use the 501 for the perfect pixel alignment. I'm just curious if I need to compromise in other areas to get this great 3D solution.


And I don't want to go the HTPC route which would be a solution to my question. I can, I have plenty of computer knowledge but I'm kind of done mucking with computers if I don't have to. These days I want as simple as set up as possible and for it to just work every time. I already play IT guy at home enough as it is.







Heaven forbid the wireless on the Tivo gets knocked off the network. I'm the only one that can get Netflix going again it seems. And even though I've set up the remote with macros to say "Watch TV" or "Play Movie" I'm still told it's too complicated to use. Go figure....


----------



## trgraphics

I received my G-501 and all I can say is that this thing really does a great job aligning 2 Benq-W7000 dlp projectors. It is simple and fast to setup. The difference in an unadjusted image and one using the 501 is amazing. I was able to get my projectors aligned very close before I used the 501 since I have them stacked on top of each other in a shelf system I built myself. After setting them up with the 501 the difference was very obvious, especially with 2d images and even with a 3d image the difference was obvious.


As far as doing what CyclistMT asked, I don't believe it will do that. The manuaI is not very good at explaining what the unit can do. I did save two different profile alignments, one for 2d without the omega filters in place and the second with the filters. There was a difference when the filters are in place for 3d but it only took a few minutes to align and save.


Considering the cost of the G-501 from Omega, and the need for a brighter images in both 2d and 3d I am very pleased with what the images look like after setup. If Omega has more units, buy one. You will not regret it if great images are what you are looking for with two projectors.


Thanks to motorman for giving me sucha good price on the G-501. It was much better than buying the Airflex5d -60 which is 3 times the cost for the exact same unit. Another consideration, the G-501 will be in my theater for a long time. I will no doubt be upgrading projectors, but now I have the G-501 and my SI zero edge 1.4 screen that will be with me for many years to come.


----------



## trgraphics




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/390#post_23709035
> 
> 
> i use the 501 and 201 box as well as offer them and i have had a hard time getting detailed info. i did get a rom update and flash procedure from vns for the first units i got. as far as running scope and having the 501 change automatically im not sure of . its another test ill have to put on my list to try out.
> 
> the i like to use my 501 the best is to use steroscopic player from my HTPC feeding the geobox, i have great control over the playback and setup.



If any more updates for the G-501 are done, will we get access to them to upgrade the units ourselves?


----------



## CyclistMT

Thanks again guys. I agree, after more research I don't think the 501 will do zoom for scope movies. I'll have to do some digging and see if I can cobble something together to be used in conjunction with the 501. trgraphics, go the Airflex site and download their manual. Seems to be fairly comprehensive for the 501.


----------



## imbloodyskint

Just got my g-201. Gonna try see if I can make space to test my setup/stack , but room is messed up as about to start taking chunk out of ceiling to fit new wardrobe lights to wardrobe.


It is nice and small and slim AND was very well packaged. I didnt get away with uk customs charges and clearance fees as I hoped, so got stung another £70.00gbp.

 



EDIT,

DAMN!!! Just spotted that I need to buy a us/taiwan to uk adaptor because power supply is taiwan/us 2 pin type.


Oh,

Note to anyone looking to buy a g-201, you will need to buy 2x hdmi to dvi-d converter (or leads) and 1x hdmi to dvi-i converter or lead/cable. And uk buyers will need a us to uk power supply converter plug.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philiwahnilli*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/210#post_23388685
> 
> 
> Well, I promised give a short review on my new OMEGA 3D projector system. I turned out to be a DIY lesson, but maybe it's interesting for some freaks like me.
> 
> 
> My Hardware:
> 
> - Geobox 201
> 
> - 2x Benq W1070 (1920x1080 DLP, 2000 lumens, 10%(of image height) vertical lensshift, 1,15-1,5 throw)
> 
> - Omega DLP small 3D kit
> 
> 
> Firt of all I tried to place the filters in front of the lenses, but the filters only work fine with a throw larger than 1.5. So i just abdicated the projectors warranty and placed the filters inside the projectors. The result is a performance, which is slightly better than for the 1.5 throw and filters in front of the lens, but within the entire zoom range. Sounds easy, but, well, let's see.
> 
> first of all i opened the projector:
> 
> 
> First try: place the filtes directly behind the lamp -> negative result, as the light is highly focussed onto the DLP roation wheel (area approx. 1,5cm square), and the numerical apertur (the angular spread) is to large, so you get a lot of partial color shift and lots of crosstalk - a pity, it could have been so easy...
> 
> 
> Seconf try: Only way to get inside the 'optics', demount the zoom lens. The next image shows the DLP-optics box from the front (omega filter inside are already inside, but not yet within the light path).
> 
> 
> To get a better overview of how the optics inside work:
> 
> 
> And the red box is where I placed my filters. How did I do this?
> 
> For some reason (maybe maintainance & repair) there is a little hole/slot in the top, covered by a small plate:
> 
> 
> And as I wanted to watch movies in 2D using only one projector the challenge was to remove the filter occasionally. So i 'designed' a aluminium block, cut out 16x16mm pieces out ot the filters and mountet them to some wire using epoxy (i know, pretty much quick & dirty, but it works):
> 
> 
> I placed the alu box inside the slot (from the top), bend the wire monted at the filters by 90degree to fit in a little hole inside the box, so i could fasten teh filters from the top using a standard screw. DONE.
> 
> now there's the filter in front of the lens that collimates the outer light (coming from the ratation wheel) into the chamber with al the other optics:
> 
> 
> 
> OK the performance:
> 
> Virtually NO crosstalk. The lamp has not a pretty FULL color spectrum, so you get some color error. The Benq W1070 has a fine tuning Hue/Gain/Offset adjustment for 6 colors (RGB & CMY). you can compensate most of the color error, but thanks to mother nature and our own built in white balance, the rest is done by your own eyes (this assumes that you dont have other white light in your flat). I only see a noticable luminance difference at really deep red and cyan tones, but you won't notice in a movie, and it's a litlle drawback I can live with respect to the rest of the performance.
> 
> 
> I have the geobox 201, so alignment has to be done manually. Even with lens shift (which is just enough with the BENQ W1070) image alignment is a nightmare, but once you got it, you really have FULL HD, no Flicker or crosstalk and a really great picture. In my opinion, it's much better and brighter than the commercial cinemas. I'm enjoying it a lot..





After opening up my w1070's and looking inside and double checking with Motoman45 that putting the filters before the colour wheel makes no difference, I went ahead and put my filters flush against the thin metal plate which is right after the bulb and before the colour wheel.


Worked a treat and no need to cut the filters.


Heres pictures of how I fitted them, took all of 30min first time, now got it down to 10 min.

 


Starting with removing the 5 underside bolts,

Remove the bulb cover, (There is a self tapper screw hidden underneath the bulb cover, in middle of projector)

Remove the complete top cover, to gain complete access to the bulb area,

 


Remove the screw holding the rh side of bulb in place, Making it easy to gain access to the very thin metal plate (Which is just before the colour wheel)

 


Now your ready to clamping each filter nice and straight into position onto the metal plate (as pictured),

 


Nearly finnished,

Now, Working in reverse,

Replacing bulb and bulb screw, then the self tapper screw,


Refit the top cover and bulb cover and finally refit all of the five underside screws.


DONE.


----------



## balro

Hello l88bastard


Can I ask, the $8 lens holders you bought, where can I find them ?


My gear arrives next week and I think this will be a good solution for me also


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balro*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23948812
> 
> 
> Hello l88bastard
> 
> 
> Can I ask, the $8 lens holders you bought, where can I find them ?
> 
> 
> My gear arrives next week and I think this will be a good solution for me also



I think these are what you are looking for

http://www.advisol.co.il/filters-mounts.html


----------



## Jayadub




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23964429
> 
> 
> I think these are what you are looking for
> 
> http://www.advisol.co.il/filters-mounts.html





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balro*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23948812
> 
> 
> Hello l88bastard
> 
> 
> Can I ask, the $8 lens holders you bought, where can I find them ?
> 
> 
> My gear arrives next week and I think this will be a good solution for me also



No I think he is referring to these clips. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-adjustable-mounting-clip-clamp-for-PCB-soldering-/251237377253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7eea24e5 . I bought a set of these and they work fine clamped to the projector mount I built. Can even pivot them out of the way to use a single projector.


----------



## Vaan Janne

anyone in EU region searching for omega 3d DLP filtters send me a private mail. I propably sell mine .....Almoust decided to buy Sony proj. because the idea of even thinking about RBE

has almoust made me give up on picking up DLP for my dual proj setup....allthough i have not yet even gone to demo one dlp but....... Seems everyone sees RBE sometimes, i kind of hate the idea

i might see it even once......lcd at start...maby forever. 3 chip dlp is out of my price range.


----------



## balro

Hello


I have a nVidia GTX 660 and dual projector with Omega Lenses


I have aligned them 99% but was wondering how I can adjust that last 1% via software


I fiddled around on the nVidia control panel but that only allow me to shrink


I really just want to move one screen to the right but about 4 pixels


thanks in advance


----------



## balro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jayadub*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23964664
> 
> 
> 
> No I think he is referring to these clips. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-adjustable-mounting-clip-clamp-for-PCB-soldering-/251237377253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7eea24e5 . I bought a set of these and they work fine clamped to the projector mount I built. Can even pivot them out of the way to use a single projector.



Thanks for the reply, I ended up building a really awesome rack setup so didn't need them in the end


I will post pics here at a later date, its been a long 12 hour day building my new setup


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23965397
> 
> 
> anyone in EU region searching for omega 3d DLP filtters send me a private mail. I propably sell mine .....Almoust decided to buy Sony proj. because the idea of even thinking about RBE
> 
> has almoust made me give up on picking up DLP for my dual proj setup....allthough i have not yet even gone to demo one dlp but....... Seems everyone sees RBE sometimes, i kind of hate the idea
> 
> i might see it even once......lcd at start...maby forever. 3 chip dlp is out of my price range.




I think you can use your DLP filters with your LCD projectors and adjust the colors if needed, in the projector units.

As far as RBE, are you staring at a 2" white square movie footage or seeing it in content viewing?

I think in content viewing there will be no effect that you can see, just let your mind tell your eyes to watch the movie, or you will spend all your time searching for rainbows.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23968131
> 
> 
> I think you can use your DLP filters with your LCD projectors and adjust the colors if needed, in the projector units.
> 
> As far as RBE, are you staring at a 2" white square movie footage or seeing it in content viewing?
> 
> I think in content viewing there will be no effect that you can see, just let your mind tell your eyes to watch the movie, or you will spend all your time searching for rainbows.



I like to play ping pong










If i get a good deal i might test the mitsubishi 7800D . if i get it so i can return it if i don´t like it.


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23968131
> 
> 
> I think you can use your DLP filters with your LCD projectors and adjust the colors if needed, in the projector units.


It's a bad idea.

When I tried using the DLP filters on my LCD projectors, I had serious inbalances in brightness output between the eyes and had to spend many hours to get it look good and most of my colour settings were reaching their maximum values.

When I tried using the LCD filters on my LCD projectors, I instantly had a balanced brightness with the default projector settings, and only needed to do minor hue tweaks to get the most optimised picture achievable.


I recommend to always use the set of Omega filters which matches your projector technology.


----------



## Vaan Janne

I agree black shark.

....i wen't to test my first dlp's today....vivitek 1180HD and optoma hs25e

First i tested vivitek.....oooooooohhhh my head. The rbe was so bad. How anybody can watch something like that. My friend had the

Same feelings....head hurts.

Changed shop and was already thinkin to foorget the optoma course the guy said optoma,benq vivitek come from about the same product line.

But luckuly i watched the optoma, it was pretty good in terms of rbe. Super bright and super deep blacks to my eye


----------



## Vaan Janne

Im just wondering should i buy the 25e or older hd82 that has even faster wheel. Or is the 25e alredy upto par with 82.

Hd83 would be great but it's much more expensive dual rig.


----------



## MC Hermetz


I stumbled across this thread when trying to find a passive 3d projector (it appears there are none for cheaper than $5k) and I'm still having trouble grasping some things. 

 

Right now I use a passive 3d Monitor with my computer, AOC e2352phz, with passive 3d glasses. I have it hooked up via HDMI to my AMD HD5870. The only way I get 3d when playing games is with Tridef software, or by some chance the game has supported it natively. (not many do that). So my first question is how is this passive setup different from the Omega? I'm aware the omega is displaying 2 separate images but how does the system know what part of an image is in the front or background? For me that's what Tridef does, so I'm really not grasping how this setup defines this.

 

If I were to invest in this setup I still want to use my PC as my media centre for playing games and Blu-rays. From the sounds of it this will require me buying a new video card that supports 2 outputs, or buying a video card in conjunction with the G-201 demultiplexer. So kind of going back up to the above question... I see the g-201 demultiplexer functioning like how Tridef does for me currently (I think).... but how would you setup this system with just using the video card with 2 outputs; maybe still using the Tridef software?

 

I'm really interested in this because currently I get ghosting with my monitor. Not enough for it to be a deal breaker but when one hears of a system that can do it without ghosting it's hard to ignore.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## MC Hermetz


Out of curiosity, I currently have a Benq Pb6200. It is an older DLP projector capable of 1080i through the vga port. I can find a second one for less than $200. Would this work? or does the projector have to be 3D-Ready? That being said I'm not even certain the vga port will work because I'll need to use a DVI-VGA adapter on the PC end and then probably another adapter to plug into the 501.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## MC Hermetz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_24003012
> 
> 
> 
> your old projector will work fine with another like it. you dont need 3d ready as tht is only for shutter glasses. you can adapt DVI to VGA, i have done this. i did it with a used Nvidia dual out card off ebay for $150. you could try it this way cheap to see if you like it before spending more , you just need the other projector. the 501 is $1600 the 201 is $700. the 501 has HDMI, DVI-D and VGA inputs, the 201 is DVI-D and i throw in HDMI adapters


 

The projector is only 1700 Lumens. Is that too little to make this an effective permanent solution? If you think it is I'll probably just save up a bit more for 2 better projectors. I really want to avoid going over 3k for this though. The only reason I'm winning the argument with the wife right now is because this is cheaper and larger than the TV she wants.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

I visited my local projector dealer who told me no lcd is the same. If you put them side by side there is not one like the other, i think that also justifys the dlp being more btter choise for omega system.


Can anyone say if older optoma hd82 has lesser rbe than new models like 25e that gives pretty low anount of rbe and great colors and pretty good black levels, atleast i think so.


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MC Hermetz*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23999731
> 
> 
> Right now I use a passive 3d Monitor with my computer, AOC e2352phz, with passive 3d glasses. I have it hooked up via HDMI to my AMD HD5870.
> 
> ...
> 
> If I were to invest in this setup I still want to use my PC as my media centre for playing games and Blu-rays. From the sounds of it this will require me buying a new video card that supports 2 outputs, or buying a video card in conjunction with the G-201 demultiplexer. So kind of going back up to the above question... I see the g-201 demultiplexer functioning like how Tridef does for me currently (I think).... but how would you setup this system with just using the video card with 2 outputs; maybe still using the Tridef software?



Hi,

I used to have this exact graphics card and used it with my dual Projector setup (i did both polarised and Omega), you won't need to change it in order to play games, for BluRay movies, it's a bit more complicated but possible.

I did it by connecting the projectors directly to the computer (no demultiplexer).


In order to connect the two projectors, you'll use the two DVI ports with passive DVI->hdmi adapters (5~10$ each) : do not use the hdmi port : *you must use two identical outputs* (with adapters if needed) otherwise the graphics card won't sync properly and cause tearing.

If you want to use projectors with analog VGA inputs, you'll have to use active DVI to VGA converters, you can't use passive adapters like the ones often provided with the graphics card bundle, otherwise you'll get the sync problems mentioned above.

The difference between active and passive adapters :

- passive adapter : just a rewiring, the graphics card detects it and converts the signal in advance

- active adapter : a chip inside the adapter converts one original signal into an other, most have an additional usb plug for power


On the computer configuration, you'll need to use the AMD catalyst software, and use the Eyefinity feature to configure the two projectors as a single 2x1 horizontally spanned desktop.

(if you use FullHD 1920x1080 projectors, your desktop will become a single 3840x1080 surface)


To play games, configure tridef as a side-by-side display, and use this feature to manually set the correct resolution (otherwise Tridef will squash the picture) : http://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3325 

To play BluRay movies, it's more complicated : no BluRay 3D playback software supports dual-projectors when plugged directly to the computer, so what I do is rip the movie and reencode it into a different format that I can play in an movie player I like. I use this software DVDFab BluRay ripper 


Finally, you have to know that this graphics card (like all AMD cards) can only drive two displays at the same time using the DVI or Hdmi ports. If you want to use a 3rd screen at the same time as the projectors, you'll have to plug it on the DisplayPort, you can use an adapter to plug your hdmi monitor or TV, but the adapter must be an active adapter.


----------



## Master Chef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Master Chef*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/180#post_23008749
> 
> 
> I hope this doesn't seem too ridiculous to ask, and maybe not even an appropriate thread. But I am a little concerned with using two ViewSonic Pro8200's. See, I bought an Acer 5360, and planned on buying another one to use with the Omega system. But I was extremely unimpressed with the 5360's 2D performance. So I decided that I would go with two pro8200's for the Omega system. Well, my budget only allows me to buy one projector for now, and I have to wait to buy my next one. So I ordered one 8200 and paired it up with the Acer in the Omega system, but they didn't work together because the display the image a frame or two apart. I did freeze frame and slow motion (which was stunning!) but could not watch real-time video. Now my concern is will I have trouble with sync between two 8200's? Is it normal for two different brands to be off like that? Do they just make the 8200's a little slower, but all 8200's display the same?.



Well, I *finally* ordered my second 8200, and it should be here by the weekend. It's been almost a year in the waiting, but I am really looking forward to finally having the ultimate home 3D projection system!


----------



## tomi73


Hi!

I´m new on this forum, and beginner. Sorry, but i speak english not too much. I just recently read about Omega 3d System, and i would also like to build one. I plan so:

2X ACER H7530D DLP projectors ( full hd 2.000 ANSI-Lumen, Kontrast 40.000:1)

Of the screen are two option, both 100":

matt white 1.1 gain, or "Spherical glass beads in the surface" 2.1 gain. I don´t understand this, link here:

http://www.amazon.de/Luxburg%C2%AE-244x244-Manual-Leinwand-Projektionsleinwand/dp/B00GC5ZODU/ref=sr_1_cc_2_m?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1386700656&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=Luxburg+leinwand

Which One is Better?

Playback source only Pc : Win7 x64 , Ati Catalyst driver 13.1 , Stereoscopic player , Power dvd 13

Naturally with Omega lenses, whitout Geobox (a bit expensive for me, maybe later).

What do you think about?

Please help me to all setup:

Projector distance from the screen (i have max. 4m)

Screen bright enough?

Setup Stereoscopic player and Ati Cat.

Where can i buy lenses in EU? If anyone has, please write! I did not find nowhere in my region (Hungary).

Thank you!


----------



## spectrogj

You can go to Ebay and type in Omega passive 3D kit


and get small DLP kit, $369.00USD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-by-Omega-Complete-Kit-for-Dual-Projectors-including-5-pairs-of-Glasses-/151022647615?pt=US_Projector_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2329a6b93f 


You don't need a silver screen, save your money


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_24068070
> 
> 
> i may be offering a new version of the omega 3D system. with some re-tooling and developmental testing a higher performing cross platform( same for LCD and DLP ) system with closer native color balance might be in the offering soon. especially for LCoS / Dila and Sxrd and better HT dlp balance at the same time.
> 
> this is going to take some investment and a little time. we will still offer the current system and suopport of it on going but after some deep thinking and tinkering with several uhp lamp based systems i should have something new for the new year.



Any idea if the new future filters will be compatible with the present omega glasses lenses mate?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## InlineTwin

Actually please tell us you are changing the glasses! I just purchased the filter system and my family rejected wearing the glasses. We have been using a linear polarizer system with nice big lens, lightweight glasses they practically disappear from the viewing frame...The glasses with this kit were unacceptable to the locals here :/ I didn't even get it all the way out the of the box before it was vocally made clear to me I wasted the money on this kit. I still want a better performing system than the polarizers offer, but the human factors must be considered. If there is any opportunity to improve the human interface point I would jump on it.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24071957
> 
> 
> the current frame was developed with Panavision for use in theaters and while not pretty to look at functions well. it is not perfect but ive never had a complaint like yours. i am sorry you dont like them. we have sold tens of thousands of these with the only complaint that they dont fit children very well. *a new frame mold costs $6k min and we need to test its performance as there are several critical factors in making the optics work correctly. if i can offer a new frame it will have better fit to a wider range of head sizes and possibly folding ear stalks.
> 
> the original did not have folding as we do not want the theater goers to steal them. the new frame will be developmental and i will post what i can as it happens.*



A New designed Pair of glasses would be a hugely welcomed by myself and a Great step forward mate









While I can use the ones you sell now, there Just a very bad fit with my rimless prescription glasses. Removing the nose piece helped get them closer to my face which helped abit with the problem of each eye Being able to see the other eyes lens, only downside was the glasses NOW sit further down my nose/face so resulting in my own glasses not covering the whole Length of the Omega Glasses lens area and I can now see the lens lower rim/edge of my own rimless prescription glasses lens.

Getting thumb prints on the lens after a relative was checking out the 3d and mistakenly stood up before removing the glasses, which made the glasses fall off her face, her instant reaction was to grab the glasses, hence the thumb prints. Tried cleaning them with a Screen cloth and even an alcohol wipe (not sure if that was right thing to do or not?) resulted in a very slight foggy look to them when wearing them.

I have got 3 pair, so just means one family member will have to have the slight foggy ones, I just won't tell them










Am Still Very greatful ( As much as the above Statement may not sound like it ) for you sharing your expertise AND bringing your Omega kit to the masses mate and it can only get bigger and better when you come out with the "MARK 2" Omega 3d Design kit.

Like you say, the Glasses were made for Cinema goers and not us Fussy home cinema geeks.









I've ONLY just FINALLY got my projector shelf fitted to sit both w1070 onto, A temp cheap 113" screen (not bolted upto wall yet)

Once Christmas and New year are out of the way (BAH HUMBUG!!) My Bedroom, come lightly and wrongly coloured Cinema room WILL get finished.

Fingerscrossed your new and better filter and glasses kit will be same or close to the price of the now "MARK 1" KIT?


----------



## InlineTwin

Comfort is only part of the issue. The viewing window in the glasses is very small compared to what, at my house, we are used to. The glasses become an obstacle to viewing. I'm surprised you had not been given this feedback since it is the first thing my wife and daughter commented on and frankly I feel it is not great. The polarized glasses give a much larger viewing window so with the direct comparison it was the most obvious difference, I think. Personally, I like not seeing the frame edges when watching so I can easily forget I am wearing them.


I did not try out the system since it was a moot point; and it may be a better technical system but performance of ghosting levels means very little when the viewers won't wear the glasses. I hope this feedback helps you develop a better product and maybe something I can use in the future.


----------



## InlineTwin

I am also trying to be friendly and provide credible feedback. I don't know if that is coming across. I hope you can do some good work from it motorman45.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *InlineTwin*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24072167
> 
> 
> I did not try out the system since it was a moot point; and it may be a better technical system but performance of ghosting levels means very little when the viewers won't wear the glasses. I hope this feedback helps you develop a better product and maybe something I can use in the future.



I think you are doing yourself a disservice in not even tryin the omega 3d system mate. While my problem is down to wearing glasses, which will be a problem for me no matter what 3d glasses I wear. The few friends who are not optically challenged as me have tried and can confirm the 3d effect is amazing. If I had Bigger lens on my rimless prescription glasses it wouldn't be as much of a problem.


I even had slight fitment issue's with the optoma 3d glasses (which are rated very high)BUT, What helped was there large lenses. Omega's were made for the mass market and made as cheap as possible for the masses. Imagine tryin to sell them to the cinema owners if the glasses were $100 a pair and they had to buy say 200-300 pair per screen for the odd 3d movie that came out and how would you stop people from taking them home or even breaking them, resulting in having to replace at $100 a pop.


For now and the near future, the tv owners are very lucky when it comes to 3d, in that they will have glasses free 3d ALOT sooner then us projector guys (if we even get it) which I Base on what I have read over the last 2-3months.

Then there is the 4k TV, and even 8k in the Distant future, which can only will go ALONG WAY in helping the acceptance of 3d by the masses. For us of the projector world who are not rich, (SONY 4K PROJECTORS x 2 = £18k/$??k) For me, the omega systems is the best we can have for now. The "MARK 2" Setup can only make it even better.


----------



## InlineTwin

I appreciate what you are saying....but it is not just me here so I need to keep the natives happy. I think if you had the experience the other way round you would understand the perspective here as well.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## 12GAGE

I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *12GAGE*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24075166
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.


Totally agree. The lenses can be popped out easy. One of those clip systems used to fit tinted lenses to glasses night work for me if I could somehow safely attach the omega lenses to the clip mechanism??


----------



## Master Chef

Woohoo! Complete success!


Using two ViewSonic Pro8200's, two Optoma 3D-XL's, and the Omega 3D system, I now have the ultimate home 3D experience. The Pro8200's work _beautifully_, as they have a seven segment red, green, blue, red, yellow, cyan, blue color wheel. I used the calibration DVD provided by AVS found here . That calibration DVD actually has a magenta, red, yellow, greeen, cyan, and blue color pattern that ranges from black to said color in 10% increments, and the projectors have individual color calibration each of those colors with hue, saturation, and gain settings. So I was able to fine tune every color across the contrast scale. It was wonderful! It IS wonderful! Boom shakalaka, baby!!!


----------



## Vaan Janne

When you say motoman you are maby launching a new set of filtters. better for all.

This means even with dlp you propably should get better color balance ?

im battling between older hd82 and never low cost optoma. hd25e ect. I just learned the hd82 does not have the new cms color system

where you can adjust the yellow, cyan + magenta also instead of just red green and blue.

I assume with this omega set it is a great advantage in terms of color balance and getting it closer to a match and having the CMS ?

Im in the same line with blackshark about how critical it is. not in terms of 3d effect but viewing pleasure. If the colors don´t match i for example

have the feeling all the time about, hey this picture is awsome, but there just something off, but i can´t seem to put my finger on it.

Ofcourse every eye is different and some don´t even see the rbe effect.


----------



## Vaan Janne

im some post here also was discussion about LED projectors. how would the http://www.viewsonic.com/us/pro9000.html 

perform with your filtters ? and which set, dlp or lcd ?


by the way, im more exited about the hd82 than the hd25e because of the faster color wheel, i would propably get some results with

the older dlp filtters i own but i would get even better results with the new ones you got comming. ? allthough i would now have nothing but

the color, hue and bias adjustments of the red, green and blu collors.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *InlineTwin*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24071709
> 
> 
> Actually please tell us you are changing the glasses! I just purchased the filter system and my family rejected wearing the glasses. We have been using a linear polarizer system with nice big lens, lightweight glasses they practically disappear from the viewing frame...The glasses with this kit were unacceptable to the locals here :/ I didn't even get it all the way out the of the box before it was vocally made clear to me I wasted the money on this kit. I still want a better performing system than the polarizers offer, but the human factors must be considered. If there is any opportunity to improve the human interface point I would jump on it.


doubt it the color points will be different


Have you tried the system?

It works much better than anything I have seen.

There is no flicker, no headache, no ghosting.

I recently sat through two hours of 3D Nitro Circus with Omega 3D, and it was AWESOME!!


The glasses were designed to work, not be fashionable, the new frame will be more sleek but cost may increase.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *12GAGE*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24075166
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.



The glasses were designed to work and create an experience in Movie theaters.

Swapping them into different frames wont work unless you understand the engineering behind them.

They are not Sunglasses from the $ store.

3D Quality unmatched sounds pretty good.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24075186
> 
> 
> Totally agree. The lenses can be popped out easy. One of those clip systems used to fit tinted lenses to glasses night work for me if I could somehow safely attach the omega lenses to the clip mechanism??



popping the lenses out and using clips and the like will create problems like back reflections an stray light ,and ocular distance will be changed.

The new frame is in testing as we speak. Cost may be greater


----------



## Vaan Janne

Idea for the new glasses....

How about integrating holders for perscription lenses inside the omega glasses ?

Maby using some measures from lenses size that is the most used, it would be then easy to

Manufactur prescription lenses into those holders.


----------



## Master Chef

Small photo gallery of my set-up. Pretty standard stuff, I think, but it was tricky to fabricate a dual-projector ceiling mount. The screen shot is with both projectors on. Pretty good alignment. It's not perfect, but I don't notice it at all while watching 3d material. Watched World War Z when I was all done setting up. Looked great!


----------



## spectrogj

I love the holders you made for your system, how about a close up photo of them


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24077738
> 
> 
> Idea for the new glasses....
> 
> How about integrating holders for perscription lenses inside the omega glasses ?
> 
> Maby using some measures from lenses size that is the most used, it would be then easy to
> 
> Manufactur prescription lenses into those holders.





Money, Money, Money.........Money

I think it would be impractical considering all the shapes and sizes of glasses in the entire world.


----------



## Vaan Janne

What. How could it be so expensive, i bet professonal that is gonna 3d model those glasses anyway spends an extra hour draving simple hlders for the lenses then mold is made. Ofcourse i understand if the v2 is already in pre production and the mold for the new version is already made


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24080313
> 
> 
> What. How could it be so expensive, i bet professonal that is gonna 3d model those glasses anyway spends an extra hour draving simple hlders for the lenses then mold is made. Ofcourse i understand if the v2 is already in pre production and the mold for the new version is already made





New Molds cost $6000.00 for prototypes and then production is usually in the 1000's if not 10,000's for glasses.


not likely to happen any time soon


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24079849
> 
> 
> Money, Money, Money.........Money
> 
> I think it would be impractical considering all the shapes and sizes of glasses in the entire world.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24081014
> 
> 
> New Molds cost $6000.00 for prototypes and then production is usually in the 1000's if not 10,000's for glasses.
> 
> 
> not likely to happen any time soon



You propably missed the post where motoman talks about maby releasing new version of the filtters and the old glasses are not compatible with his maby upcoming new filters. You think he is gonna release just the filtters and then we stare t those filtters instead of 3d because we don't have compatible glasses ? Yeah i know everything nowdays costs a small fortune.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24081322
> 
> 
> 
> You propably missed the post where motoman talks about maby releasing new version of the filtters and the old glasses are not compatible with his maby upcoming new filters. You think he is gonna release just the filtters and then we stare t those filtters instead of 3d because we don't have compatible glasses ? Yeah i know everything nowdays costs a small fortune.



The new glasses version will fit in the existing frames as well as the new frame and the projector filters will also fit in their existing mounts.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24081492
> 
> 
> The new glasses version will fit in the existing frames as well as the new frame and the projector filters will also fit in their existing mounts.



i was under the impression motoman blabed something about pissible new frames.

well never mind.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24076808
> 
> 
> im some post here also was discussion about LED projectors. how would the http://www.viewsonic.com/us/pro9000.html
> 
> perform with your filtters ? and which set, dlp or lcd ?
> 
> 
> by the way, im more exited about the hd82 than the hd25e because of the faster color wheel, i would propably get some results with
> 
> the older dlp filtters i own but i would get even better results with the new ones you got comming. ? allthough i would now have nothing but
> 
> the color, hue and bias adjustments of the red, green and blu collors.



MOTOMAN any comment ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Master Chef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24079837
> 
> 
> I love the holders you made for your system, how about a close up photo of them



You mean the holders for the filters? They still need some work. I tried using the omega system with two mismatched projectors before, and one of the holders in the picture is recycled from an earlier project and the other one I measured incorrectly, which is why if you look close, there is a gap at the top of the lower filter. But when I fabricate my next one, I will take a few pictures. And if you meant the projector mount, well, it is a lot junkier than I planned out and barely works, not worth a closer look. :/

*Motorman*, I want to check on something: I believe I read somewhere that the filters are supposed to be positioned so that the projected image fills the entire filter area (or as close as possible) to achieve maximum efficiency, is that correct?


----------



## Vaan Janne

I believe if you put them as close as possible the image will not cover whole filtter area.

Motoman are the filtter best to be enclosed like masterchef has put them ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Master Chef

I wanted it enclosed like that because the filters are so reflective, I wanted to contain all that extra light. And, also, it looks good


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## imbloodyskint

THIS Firmware upgrade only for the G501 ?


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24092452
> 
> 
> THIS Firmware upgrade only for the G501 ?



Don't know. I have the 501 update.... allthough have not done it yet.

Ask steve. Go to the source. That's how one should always roll.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24092905
> 
> 
> Don't know. I have the 501 update.... allthough have not done it yet.
> 
> Ask steve. Go to the source. That's how one should always roll.



Vann,

Have just emailed steve to ask if can get this feature in a new firmware for my g201 because would be nice to have this as an extra option.


----------



## InlineTwin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/450#post_24077347
> 
> 
> doubt it the color points will be different
> 
> 
> Have you tried the system?
> 
> It works much better than anything I have seen.
> 
> There is no flicker, no headache, no ghosting.
> 
> I recently sat through two hours of 3D Nitro Circus with Omega 3D, and it was AWESOME!!
> 
> 
> The glasses were designed to work, not be fashionable, the new frame will be more sleek but cost may increase.



I installed it. The filters fit directly in the projector with the lamp. Super easy to install. SO...is it better than my linear polar setup...well yes and no...Unless I recline my seats all the way back there is no ghosting. At full recline the color is way off and starts to show both images. Linear polar only had issues with tilting my head so there is still a box the viewer must be in for performance. Its just that it is up and down instead of side to side.


I have a 122" screen and sit 140" back on the closest row. I can see the frames of the glasses. ( and I wear contacts and glasses in the past so I understand what it means to wear glasses). The frames I cannot be comfortable with at all pinches the temples and are heavy; the linear polar frames are comfortable just like regular glasses (...because they are just like normal glasses). Additionally, with the Omega glasses there are reflections from my FACE ( I am white...) that interferes with the clarity of the picture. Casts a haze over the image. If I put my hands under the glasses in a certain way then it is reduced and the picture is better. But I think it is the light that comes in through the lenses and has enough lux to cause reflections back to the lens. I can actually see my face reflected in the lenses on bright scenes.


So that is it. Family hasn't been interested in using the theater since installing the Omega system. But I think I will keep it installed for further evaluation ;-)


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Could we make a list starting from here:


User: Vaan Janne

What projector: i have not ordered yet..prob HD82

happy with the picture: world through filtters look great... i wish had a projector


----------



## Master Chef

Code:


Code:


[CODE]USER: Master Chef
PROJECTORS: ViewSonic Pro8200
   PICTURE: Good.
EXPERIENCE: Excellent. 

   Picture
     NOTES: Some color tweaking was required, but I had a good color template to work with. 
            Glasses have some reflective light issues, but the IMAX glasses glare a little, too, 
            and I can't say Omega's are much worse than IMAX.

Experience
     NOTES: The glasses were uncomfortable (heavy, hurt nose before end of movie). 
            I wear prescription glasses, but tried Omega with glasses and contacts. Both were similar experiences. 
            I put some foam in the nose area of glasses, and they are MUCH better now :)

[/CODE]

 



Okay, now to my filter holders










Lens unit is 3.25 inches wide. So I made my holder out of black foamboard, 1/16" narrower than the lens unit. The foamboard stretches a bit, so it is easily removable, yet snugly fits.
 

 
 
 
 


Here you can see the thickness of the foamboard compared to the Omega filters.

I made the hole in foamboard 1/16 inch less than width and length of filters.

The filters dig into the foam and fit securely into place.
 
 

*EDIT*

I modified a pair of glasses. I would say these block out about 90% of the light leakage allowed by unmodified glasses. I am having a lazy craft-day Saturday


----------



## InlineTwin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24100804
> 
> 
> it dose not sound like you have the filters installed right. there is no ghosting at all when setup correctly. the filter is tricky to put in where the lamp goes. it need to be a smaller piece than the standard filter and its angle is critical in that location. the note in the kit should show that the filter needs to be perpendicular to the image beam and the throw ratio no shorter than 1.5:1 1.7:1 or more is better.
> 
> as far as the back reflection in the lenses it should be very minimal depending. if you look for it and look for flaws to criticize then you will find them. polarizing has many flaws as do shutter glasses.
> 
> the color difference may take some adjustment but as others have read it is usually minimal with correct setup, at least more than satisfy 99.9% of people i have sold them to
> 
> you are probably a part of that 0.1% of users that have a complaint, no problem . you can sell the kit optics I'm sure on ebay to another or ask the ebay seller you got them from to take a return. its up to you.



( I corrected some spelling in the quote, I hope that is okay)


To be fair the reclined angle of my recliner is pretty extreme. But the family uses it that way and there was no problem with the linear setup as long as you didn't tilt your head, so I noted the difference. In any case I think you misunderstand my post and I gave both the good and the bad and the fact that the linear polar setup I spent time putting together is competitive with your system does not inherently make your system bad! Referencing your PM to me I don't feel I was being at all overly negative and in fact supported the good things about your system. I am an aerospace engineer and I understand how criticism of your system can be frustrating but others do have a voice and mine is as valid as anyone else on the forum.


I think your take away from my input should be that you need to consider the human factors in a home theater setting. We do not want heavy glasses, the glasses should disappear and not interfere with the immersion, vanity counts!, and 2.5 hours of wearing should be comfortable and finally recognition of the limitations of the system is okay!


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *InlineTwin*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24107255
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( I corrected some spelling in the quote, I hope that is okay)
> 
> 
> To be fair the reclined angle of my recliner is pretty extreme. But the family uses it that way and there was no problem with the linear setup as long as you didn't tilt your head, so I noted the difference. In any case I think you misunderstand my post and I gave both the good and the bad and the fact that the linear polar setup I spent time putting together is competitive with your system does not inherently make your system bad! Referencing your PM to me I don't feel I was being at all overly negative and in fact supported the good things about your system. I am an aerospace engineer and I understand how criticism of your system can be frustrating but others do have a voice and mine is as valid as anyone else on the forum.
> 
> 
> I think your take away from my input should be that you need to consider the human factors in a home theater setting. We do not want heavy glasses, the glasses should disappear and not interfere with the immersion, vanity counts!, and 2.5 hours of wearing should be comfortable and finally recognition of the limitations of the system is okay!




The human factors were considered for theater, not bed theaters.

Have your children been lying down at the movie theater with you looking through the bottom of the glasses?

I cannot believe that there is no problems with your polarizer system at such an extreme angles either.

They already have ghosting, does it get worse?

Super comfy movie/sleeping glasses would have cost millions of extra dollars for home theater viewing to be perfect.

Shutter glasses are $100.00 a pair and they probably don't work when you lay down either.


Sit up a little


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## InlineTwin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24108699
> 
> 
> The human factors were considered for theater, not bed theaters.
> 
> Have your children been lying down at the movie theater with you looking through the bottom of the glasses?
> 
> I cannot believe that there is no problems with your polarizer system at such an extreme angles either.
> 
> They already have ghosting, does it get worse?
> 
> Super comfy movie/sleeping glasses would have cost millions of extra dollars for home theater viewing to be perfect.
> 
> Shutter glasses are $100.00 a pair and they probably don't work when you lay down either.
> 
> 
> Sit up a little



Taking a step back: I gave the initial feedback from my family to the community. I was encouraged to install the system and try it out by the community so I did. I gave an update on the impression of the system. And it has gone downhill from there...PM from motorman45 the engineer wants me to be quite and not post negative comments. Also, other community members chiming in telling me my opinion is not valid for all the reasons they can come up with.


Well, I have been visiting the forum since 2009 and don't feel welcome to post my opinion at all. It seems even modest criticism to provide HELPFUL feedback is not acceptable. The system must be considered perfect! Well it is not.


I was motivated by the information I found here to purchase the system thinking it was a huge leap from the linear polar setup I had been using but that was not the case. I believe I gave the overall impression in my posts that It is a least close enough that I would be okay to leave it installed, but as I stated before I am not the only user and my family opinions matter to me.


With all that said stop angsting over my posts; I will withhold further comment (good or bad) and you all enjoy yourselves!


----------



## Leo A


A bit off-topic but I am wondering whether it is possible to make digital filters for the omega system (maybe there are already solutions out there like that?) that would do all the spectral filtering in software instead of using optical filters? That way one could use a normal monitor (either TV screen or computer monitor) to view content using the omega 3d colour separation without the need for projectors. Or is there something optical physics-wise that I am missing?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

It's so hard to decide what dlp's to get with every projector having every feature up to par. Just starting to wonder if it's really worth all the trouble. After buying couple new cheap dlp, what ever those are i have spend 3000-3600 euros into this setup, to have better 3d than active same price. Just wonder is that it, 2d in under 1000 euro projector propably looks crap compared to 3500 euro costing sony or jvc and what they offer in 2d.

The 3d offered by omega and couple cheap o projectors better be super sweet.allthough i know passive is much smoother to watch, but i just

Have second thoughts about dlp, the chance of seeing rbe is like a itch you can't scrach.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24131014
> 
> 
> It's so hard to decide what dlp's to get with every projector having every feature up to par. Just starting to wonder if it's really worth all the trouble. After buying couple new cheap dlp, what ever those are i have spend 3000-3600 euros into this setup, to have better 3d than active same price. Just wonder is that it, 2d in under 1000 euro projector propably looks crap compared to 3500 euro costing sony or jvc and what they offer in 2d.
> 
> The 3d offered by omega and couple cheap o projectors better be super sweet.allthough i know passive is much smoother to watch, but i just
> 
> Have second thoughts about dlp, the chance of seeing rbe is like a itch you can't scrach.




Are you basing your DLP problems on something that might happen when you have a black screen and a white dot in the center and then you dart your eyes back and forth violently?

There are not many movies that have black back rounds and small white dots in the middle of the screen



The way DLP works with a color wheel, it can't project pure white light on the spot where the light bulb is. It's actually flashing all three primary colors, in turn, to create the white.


Looking at it, you won't notice it. However, dart your eyes quickly from left to right as if you were scanning the TV screen and now the light is spread out like a line. When you dart your eye across the screen, the white light is now rainbow colored. You can see the same effect in space, like star fields in sci fi movies.


I can see it, not all people can. Just look at any DLP playing at bestbuy, during standard material you will never see it.


It's not a big problem, but some people are more sensitive to it than others.


Modern DLP projectors tend to have faster color wheels that nearly eliminate the effect.


----------



## Vaan Janne

No


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24135613
> 
> 
> Are you basing your DLP problems on something that might happen when you have a black screen and a white dot in the center and then you dart your eyes back and forth violently?
> 
> There are not many movies that have black back rounds and small white dots in the middle of the screen
> 
> 
> No. I just wonder how i can live with rbe issue. I like to watch oversized image, and then you have to move your eyes from left to right from time to time.
> 
> I did see some rbe on hd25e and i did not even get to watch high movement scenes so i wonder.... anyways im gonna take a hd25e into loan for a weekend sometime here to make my decicion weather keep it. Or order older hd82 from ebay that has 6 segment rgb/rgb 6 speed wheel. I believe that is as good as it gets on "cheap" dlp
> 
> 
> 
> The way DLP works with a color wheel, it can't project pure white light on the spot where the light bulb is. It's actually flashing all three primary colors, in turn, to create the white.
> 
> 
> Looking at it, you won't notice it. However, dart your eyes quickly from left to right as if you were scanning the TV screen and now the light is spread out like a line. When you dart your eye across the screen, the white light is now rainbow colored. You can see the same effect in space, like star fields in sci fi movies.
> 
> 
> I can see it, not all people can. Just look at any DLP playing at bestbuy, during standard material you will never see it.
> 
> 
> It's not a big problem, but some people are more sensitive to it than others.
> 
> 
> Modern DLP projectors tend to have faster color wheels that nearly eliminate the effect.


----------



## Vaan Janne

Really F'd that reply up...reply is in the middle.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24148298
> 
> 
> No




Are you thinking of getting LCD projectors?

Like the article said, the RGB wheels have been improved and I have not seen RBE on the two older Optoma HD20's I have

We also have two lower end Optoma 720DPI projectors and we watched A NASA Imax Hubble telescope Blu Ray yesterday, didn't notice anything.

just great 3D.

I think you are looking too hard for faults.

How did you ever justify a polarizing system with the ghosting and possible headaches, not to mention shutter glasses with filckering?


----------



## Vaan Janne

I hve not concedered lcd course it's been said many times color balance of left and right is better with dlp, allthough one should get pretty good result with lcdoptimized filtter, but i did find lcd dual rig color calibration challenging allthough the starting point is muc better because polarisation filtter alter clor balance much less than omega. But like you said there is the ghosting issue. I did get pretty good results with polarized dual pj setup setting color performace limited cutting out blackest black and brighest white, allthough color performance was a little flatten down the image was pretty good and the ghosting on movies did not trouble. With games the ghosting is more issue. Allthough you can good 3d when playing games with pc by reducing stereo separation with tridef drivers. So i think lcd is out for me with omega and yes would not wanna go active. I think even my polarized setting with ax200 was easier to watch than active in my local theater. I propably gonna give hd25e a try course i don't know f it's wise to order hd82 from us to europe, warranty would gt to expensive when iwould have to pay shipping both ways if some warranty issues would come to play.

I was also thinkin couple of viewsonic led projectors but it's a complege shoot in the dark course motoman could not say if the color gamut of them would be large enough. And the price is pretty steep 1600 € a pop. I would get lcd in a heart beat if there was one inexpensive model that has super good color balance with omega lcd filtter. The color balance is the most important factor or atleast as important as the ghosting. Even with polaized setup i did find it annoying if the colors where not spot on.

Color balance off is the thing in the picture when you are watching a movie and think to yourself "this 3d is awsome but there is something wierd off in this picture, but i just can't put my finger on it"


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_23737754
> 
> 
> After opening up my w1070's and looking inside and double checking with Motoman45 that putting the filters before the colour wheel makes no difference, I went ahead and put my filters flush against the thin metal plate which is right after the bulb and before the colour wheel.
> 
> 
> Worked a treat and no need to cut the filters.
> 
> 
> Heres pictures of how I fitted them, took all of 30min first time, now got it down to 10 min.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting with removing the 5 underside bolts,
> 
> Remove the bulb cover, (There is a self tapper screw hidden underneath the bulb cover, in middle of projector)
> 
> Remove the complete top cover, to gain complete access to the bulb area,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the screw holding the rh side of bulb in place, Making it easy to gain access to the very thin metal plate (Which is just before the colour wheel)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now your ready to clamping each filter nice and straight into position onto the metal plate (as pictured),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly finnished,
> 
> Now, Working in reverse,
> 
> Replacing bulb and bulb screw, then the self tapper screw,
> 
> 
> Refit the top cover and bulb cover and finally refit all of the five underside screws.
> 
> 
> DONE.




Hi, after a little pause i'm back working on my passive system with two w1070.

I did some quick testing with filters before color wheel just like you have done in those pics and found that crosstalk was REAL BAD. Is it possible that filters do not work in that place after all. How is it working for you? Maybe my test setup flawed somehow.


philiwahnilli had prob same problem as i have with this method.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philiwahnilli*
> 
> First try: place the filtes directly behind the lamp -> negative result, as the light is highly focussed onto the DLP roation wheel (area approx. 1,5cm square), and the numerical apertur (the angular spread) is to large, so you get a lot of partial color shift and lots of crosstalk - a pity, it could have been so easy...



philiwahnilli, how is your setup now? found any issues?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## JaMiR

motorman45, i'm not saying that filters itself is somehow bad or anything but just replied my finding about installing filter inside W1070 before color wheel(imbloodyskint way). I get way better perfomance installing filter after lens outside projector vs before color wheel. I think if you install filters inside W1070 then before colorwheel may be wrong place. My original plan was and is still to install filters inside light chamber(philiwahnilli way) and this could be best way but also "hard way".


Lamp - color wheel - "light tunnel" - lens - Omega filter - mirror - mirror - DMD - lens


PS.I have small kit and experimental kit.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24157326
> 
> 
> motorman45, i'm not saying that filters itself is somehow bad or anything but just replied my finding about installing filter inside W1070 before color wheel(imbloodyskint way). I get way better perfomance installing filter after lens outside projector vs before color wheel. I think if you install filters inside W1070 then before colorwheel may be wrong place. My original plan was and is still to install filters inside light chamber(philiwahnilli way) and this could be best way but also "hard way".
> 
> 
> Lamp - color wheel - "light tunnel" - lens - Omega filter - mirror - mirror - DMD - lens
> 
> 
> PS.I have small kit and experimental kit.



I can't explain your ghosting issue buddy. I have only had slight ghosting from one 3d Movie, which I put down to the Movie. Avatar 3D, Wolverine 3D, Despicable Me 3D Have all been Ghost Free for me??


----------



## JaMiR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24158042
> 
> 
> I can't explain your ghosting issue buddy. I have only had slight ghosting from one 3d Movie, which I put down to the Movie. Avatar 3D, Wolverine 3D, Despicable Me 3D Have all been Ghost Free for me??



Interesting...I will do more testing today. I do my testing with PC. Ghosting is very easy to test as i can put just about any image on screen and put one projector on. If i see image with wrong eye, its ghosting and it was real bad in my first test with filter before color wheel, when filter is front of projectors lens it's almost zero when look through small kit filter. I try to take some pictures as well.


PS.What was movie you had ghosting? You can test if it in movie(never seen this) by pause movie on spot where it ghost and either close lens from another projector or close it, this ghosting should be seen also on 2D image now(L or R).


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaMiR*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24158522
> 
> 
> Interesting...I will do more testing today. I do my testing with PC. Ghosting is very easy to test as i can put just about any image on screen and put one projector on. If i see image with wrong eye, its ghosting and it was real bad in my first test with filter before color wheel, when filter is front of projectors lens it's almost zero when look through small kit filter. I try to take some pictures as well.
> 
> 
> PS.What was movie you had ghosting? You can test if it in movie(never seen this) by pause movie on spot where it ghost and either close lens from another projector or close it, this ghosting should be seen also on 2D image now(L or R).



Can't remember exact title, but think was space one "Hubble" Imax, the ghosting is mainly on the edge of the image not the centre.

OFF TOPIC.

I'm back to A non usable setup again due to having a real nightmare lining the projected image upto my 113" screen because All the walls are out and not flat and wavy/bowed, even my ceiling is uneven in height, also the floor isn't flat and runs up and down.(Thanks to 1960's house builders)

I'm gonna be sitting both w1070 onto a shelf and somehow attaching them to each other using some form of Home made bracket setup, once the shelf is adjusted so as its perfectly straight which it isn't right now, again due to the wavy/bowed wall its attached to.


----------



## mikemav

Is anyone aware if there is any way yet to put together a 6 projector, passive 3D rig at triple 1080p (5760x1080) and make it work with Nvidia 3D Vision Surround? I know there was discussion of one of the new Chinese-mad demuxer boxes that may have Nvidia certification? Anyone know if a triple rig can work in 3D Vision Surround with these please let me know.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikemav*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24163105
> 
> 
> Is anyone aware if there is any way yet to put together a 6 projector, passive 3D rig at triple 1080p (5760x1080) and make it work with Nvidia 3D Vision Surround? I know there was discussion of one of the new Chinese-mad demuxer boxes that may have Nvidia certification? Anyone know if a triple rig can work in 3D Vision Surround with these please let me know.





Which Chinese made demux are you talking about?

You would need three sets of projector filters to make the 6 video surround thing work.

There are companies out there that use video surround caves with polarizers and active shutters glasses, It should work with a passive set up too.

I would love to see it in action,

keep updating you progress


----------



## mikemav




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24164066
> 
> 
> Which Chinese made demux are you talking about?
> 
> You would need three sets of projector filters to make the 6 video surround thing work.
> 
> There are companies out there that use video surround caves with polarizers and active shutters glasses, It should work with a passive set up too.
> 
> I would love to see it in action,
> 
> keep updating you progress


I think this was the Geobox I read would support 3D Vision:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24092307
> 
> 
> I got the files to flash my 501 geobox for 120hz nvidia 3d play. i will test it out to see what i can do with it for pc gaming... i can send it to those who have them just pm me


Wondering if it could emulate a desktop 120Hz Nvidia 3D SURROUND approved monitor, for example, it would allow triple passive as about the only way to get 5k x1080 res larger than triple 27" desktop 3D monitors. Nvidia for example does not allow triple 3DTVs, and all the 3D Vision approved projectors I'm aware of work in surround 3x1, but only are native 720p each.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikemav*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24163105
> 
> 
> Is anyone aware if there is any way yet to put together a 6 projector, passive 3D rig at triple 1080p (5760x1080) and make it work with Nvidia 3D Vision Surround? I know there was discussion of one of the new Chinese-mad demuxer boxes that may have Nvidia certification? Anyone know if a triple rig can work in 3D Vision Surround with these please let me know.



wouldn´t it be just easier to buy oculus rift if you wanna go that crazy with your setup. + you would get head tracking and by

that much more imersive experience ?


----------



## mikemav

Yeah waiting for a higher res dev kit or production Rift is the main reason why I am not as into my triple 720p projector setup work that is yet to be done. Was just curious about the 6) 1080p projector if one wanted the ultimate. Anyway, I think the Rift shows great promise especially for what I'm into (racing simulation.)


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikemav*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24166151
> 
> 
> Yeah waiting for a higher res dev kit or production Rift is the main reason why I am not as into my triple 720p projector setup work that is yet to be done. Was just curious about the 6) 1080p projector if one wanted the ultimate. Anyway, I think the Rift shows great promise especially for what I'm into (racing simulation.)



i think it´s gonna blow the roof of in simulators when the hires consumer version is available, and the next model that is propably gonna have even better, faster head tracking ect. but one interested in movies is still wanna have a great passive projector rack. I can´t imagine watching movies with a friend all having rifts on their face









It´s just so more or less a social event.


----------



## spectrogj

Agreed!


If everyone is wearing Rifts there might be a rip in the space time continuum, and

they will all look like Stevie Wonder with steroid glasses


And everyone thinks the Omega glasses are uncomfortable,


 



Duhhh!


----------



## Vaan Janne

could " over-saturated red and green primaries" in gamut present problems during color balance if calibration is limited to RGB not having cms ?


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24168122
> 
> 
> could " over-saturated red and green primaries" in gamut present problems during color balance if calibration is limited to RGB not having cms ?



Why is it so over saturated in the first place.

There should be adjustments for RGB built into the projector.

Allowing the projector to be fully warmed up will also result in better color management.


I would think External Color Management Systems are more suited for Theater applications and are very expensive.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24168535
> 
> 
> Why is it so over saturated in the first place.
> 
> There should be adjustments for RGB built into the projector.
> 
> Allowing the projector to be fully warmed up will also result in better color management.
> 
> 
> I would think External Color Management Systems are more suited for Theater applications and are very expensive.



don´t know. review just said so. After calibration still like that.


----------



## fw72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/420#post_24068070
> 
> 
> i may be offering a new version of the omega 3D system. with some re-tooling and developmental testing a higher performing cross platform( same for LCD and DLP ) system with closer native color balance might be in the offering soon. especially for LCoS / Dila and Sxrd and better HT dlp balance at the same time.
> 
> this is going to take some investment and a little time. we will still offer the current system and suopport of it on going but after some deep thinking and tinkering with several uhp lamp based systems i should have something new for the new year.


 

Dear motorman45,

do you have an idea about the timeframe when the "new version" will be available? 

I really would like to combine Omega3D with a JVC projector and an anamorphic lens....

Do you also have some experience or suggestions about the combination of anamorphoc lens + Omega 3D system? Or does this have

Issues I overlooked reading this thread?

CU


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24170296
> 
> 
> don´t know. review just said so. After calibration still like that.




Post the review


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24172982
> 
> 
> Post the review


 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/optoma-hd8200-dlp-projector/all-pages.html 


at conclusion -->


is there color gamut otherwise good for omega ?


Im soon gonna order these babies


----------



## spectrogj

I would think these projectors would be awesome,


The review says:


Red was visibly over-saturated; both in test patterns and in content. It *Wasn't* enough to negatively affect the all-important flesh tones but red objects sometimes looked unnaturally red. *The overall color presentation however was good with excellent color delineation and a generally natural look.*


I think it compares very favorably with the competition. My only wish was for a CMS to tame the over-saturated red and green primaries. Despite this, the image was very easy on the eyes. *The PureMotion processing is one of the best frame-interpolation systems I’ve seen on any display.*


This is all one man's opinion and there are more pros than cons


How much are the projectors now?

the review is from 2010


----------



## Vaan Janne

$799 refurbished. Discontinued proj. Last ship was spring or summer 2013 if i remember correctly.

My only conern is the fact warranty is only void in us so i basicly have to pay the sending and return mail through remail service. So it kind of is no warranty.

Well atleast there is two week mail order return policy. I propably order one and second sometime later if im not too sensitive to rbe. I allthough have my hopes up these deliver pretty low rainbowing.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## mr mac

Hi guys! Long time lurker on this forum and I have a bunch of questions... Appreciate anyone who wants to chip in!


I'm a home theater enthusiast that recently started thinking about upgrading to stereoscopic. I currently have a panasonic PT-Ae4000u projector on a CIH 2,35:1 114" screen with 1,2gain (seymour AV).


I'm very intrigued by Omega as I personally like the Dolby 3D system the best in commercial theaters. Although the only caveat is that the lenses on the glasses are very small. How do the Omega lenses compare in size? There is talk of a redesign? What can you share? Why is the lenses on this kinda systems so small compared to polarized? Cost? Why are they not flat?


My current idea is to invest in a fairly inexpensive DLP projector that can do active 3D and in the feature get an additional one and try your passive system. I'm looking into the Benq W1070. Is that a good recommendation for Omega? Any advantages - disadvantages? Anything in the same price point (under $1000) that is way better? How much brighter will the image be using 2 passive projectors versus a single active?


Many reviews say there is no crosstalk issues with the Benq W1070. Is that not true? It triple flashes at 144hz right? That gives eye/brain fatigue?


I have as I said a panny 4000 and like the image a lot. I have seen DLP projectors and have always been susceptible to the darn rainbows. Will I see rainbows on the W1070?


And will I need the geobox 501 to do the passive 3D? Or will you reach a decent alignment without it? I guess you need a 3D demuxer anyway to split the signal to two projectors...


Wow! Lot's of questions...









Thanks!


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24175659
> 
> 
> i should have the first new version parts mid year. i will offer test kits sooner if i get them made and my testing goes well. i am going to try to get my hands on a JVC Dila projector for testing, i have several dlp units already.
> 
> 
> as far an anamorphic lens's i have not used them, but i do know the same rules apply with our filters, as long as they are close to the lens and the initial throw is 1.5:1 for longer Prior to the anamorphic it will be fine. a 2:1 throw is best for the filters, i can imagine how great a scope HD 3D image would look...



Will the new filter also work with for example a sony hw50? What do we have to expect for a price range?

Do the actual omega filter not work with some color shift with the hw50? It is not possible to simply correct those color shifts?


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24164066
> 
> 
> Which Chinese made demux are you talking about?
> 
> You would need three sets of projector filters to make the 6 video surround thing work.
> 
> There are companies out there that use video surround caves with polarizers and active shutters glasses, It should work with a passive set up too.
> 
> I would love to see it in action,
> 
> keep updating you progress



There are now 2 known manufacturers to provide demultiplexers compatible with Nvidia 3D Vision 1080p 120Hz sequential format :

- Mviewtech (MA2P202) based in Shanghai

- VNS (Geobox 303 and 501) based in Taiwan


The Mviewtech box has an official NVidia 3D Vision license, it's very expensive

The VNS box doesn't, so you'll have to modify some files when installing it to fool the 3D Vision driver (EDID override hack)


I don't know if 3D Vision surround will accept the hack or if it has additional detection capabilities which may break everything.

In theory, doing surroound 3D with 6 passive projectors should work but I don't know anyone who tried it.


----------



## Vaan Janne

F*** ..gotta give up my DLP plans.. .. just put two and two together. My wife can´t watch dlp, allthoug she never have seen one. but she fills the form.

super high motion sickes + hates strobos and got sick watching active in theater. So i better not try my luck with that....or ?


So If anyone needs omega DLP fitters, Private message me. I live in EU so you get them without taxes if you live with in EU.

I have the filtters + 2 glasses. Tested, not any sign of use


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24196380
> 
> 
> F*** ..gotta give up my DLP plans.. .. just put two and two together. My wife can´t watch dlp, allthoug she never have seen one. but she fills the form.
> 
> super high motion sickes + hates strobos and got sick watching active in theater. So i better not try my luck with that....or ?
> 
> 
> So If anyone needs omega DLP fitters, Private message me. I live in EU so you get them without taxes if you live with in EU.
> 
> I have the filtters + 2 glasses. Tested, not any sign of use



2-DLP's is not active, each projector gets its own white light, there is no flicker with the Omega Filters and glasses


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24203165
> 
> 
> 2-DLP's is not active, each projector gets its own white light, there is no flicker with the Omega Filters and glasses



i know what is the difference between active and passive. But if my wife can´t handle DLP do you think she can handle 2 DLP projectors at the same time ? .. i don´t think so.


----------



## spectrogj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24203274
> 
> 
> i know what is the difference between active and passive. But if my wife can´t handle DLP do you think she can handle 2 DLP projectors at the same time ? .. i don´t think so.



Looks like LCD's for you but they may have flicker also from image refresh rates and motion blur


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24203307
> 
> 
> Looks like LCD's for you but they may have flicker also from image refresh rates and motion blur



i know itś a bummer... propably LCoS SXRD ...sony hw30 or mitsu hc5

if anyone has any comment about which being better holla me PM


....LCD on 2D was good for my wife.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24211772
> 
> 
> i have customers using Sony SXRD projector pairs that love the results of our lcd filters on them. i actually have a pro av 3d cave setup one customer is using for research and using sony sxrd units.



I was thinking using mitsubishi hc5. That,s the same technology for what understand ? And should work similary as good ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24196380
> 
> 
> F*** ..gotta give up my DLP plans.. .. just put two and two together. My wife can´t watch dlp, allthoug she never have seen one. but she fills the form.
> 
> super high motion sickes + hates strobos and got sick watching active in theater. So i better not try my luck with that....or ?
> 
> 
> So If anyone needs omega DLP fitters, Private message me. I live in EU so you get them without taxes if you live with in EU.
> 
> I have the filtters + 2 glasses. Tested, not any sign of use



... i also might sell my geobox 501 if someone temps me with good offer with in EU. I porpably don´t have the cash to buy another PJ this summer

and well be moving propably ect...so i will not have a theater to put 2 projectors.


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24215787
> 
> 
> ... i also might sell my geobox 501 if someone temps me with good offer with in EU.


I'd be interested in the geobox 501 if it's software upgradeable to support 1080p120Hz sequential demultiplexing.


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24225848
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in the geobox 501 if it's software upgradeable to support 1080p120Hz sequential demultiplexing.



Yes it can be done


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imbloodyskint*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24225957
> 
> 
> Yes it can be done



How? Where do you download the firmware? How do you install it?


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soulnight*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24239471
> 
> 
> How? Where do you download the firmware? How do you install it?



you need something to do the flash (cable/card rs232). but i don´t recommend it if you have to ask how do i install it.

you can´t download the firmware.

you can ask for it if you own a geobox.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Motoman. Are the new filtters due to release gonna enhance the dlp color balance also or are they just for the dlp ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## zorg43x

please, keep us informed! i am very interested.

do you know of any LCoS or SxRd with higher lumen output? I need at least 4200...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/510#post_24173449
> 
> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/optoma-hd8200-dlp-projector/all-pages.html
> 
> 
> at conclusion -->
> 
> 
> is there color gamut otherwise good for omega ?
> 
> 
> Im soon gonna order these babies



So after all you are going the How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-RBE way?


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zorg43x*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24318956
> 
> 
> please, keep us informed! i am very interested.
> 
> do you know of any LCoS or SxRd with higher lumen output? I need at least 4200...
> 
> So after all you are going the How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-RBE way?



i might have. My wife filled all the boxes of things that you should not have if you buy dlp, so i dumped rainbow city and bought mitsubishi hc5.

if i only had the money to buy another when the new omega filtters for lcd/sxrd hit the shelves.

I looove the 2d on hc5. 3d is total utter crap(came as no suprice its bad, but not that bad). Flickery and ghosting. Much poorer than my older linear setup with ax200's and polarisers.


----------



## zorg43x

good for you. the first thing on a (1ch) DLP i see is the rainbow. bad for me :/

wwoooooou if i had the money to buy a dual 3DLP setup, that would be a complete different story


----------



## space2001

did anyone every find out how much the VNS 303 box will be. what are the main differences between it and the 501


----------



## imbloodyskint




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *space2001*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24325627
> 
> 
> did anyone every find out how much the VNS 303 box will be. what are the main differences between it and the 501


 http://www.vnstw.com/en/Upload/News3/News-2014261644564.pdf 


Goto page 3 to see a comparison chart of all geo box models


----------



## cerealk

  
 

hello,


i have a problem with my geobox 501 and omega filters
http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/redproblem.php  


when i am in 1080p 120hz(or 100hz), i have black pixel in red image, just in the red and just with channel A.

in 1080p60hz and 24hz no problem.

i tried :

diferrent output hdmi cables

input geobox with displayport and dvi-d

two gpu cards : gtx 560 and gtx 780

two different boot system with 3 different drivers

it's ok if i change for 16 bits colors but in game it's 32 bits...

two projectors at 1080 60hz in 2d are ok

(I have another problem with inversion of 3d effect (left/right) with somes games)


If you have a solution...


Thanks


----------



## cerealk

Hi,

Problem solved for me with update firmware of geobox !!


Big thanks at Steve Wang (vns company)


----------



## Vaan Janne

Just wonder how you could even been in 120hz mode. 501 did not support it before the update, or is there another 120hz update


----------



## sid-6581


@motorman45: I have two Epson EH-TW4400 ( http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson_Europe-EH-TW4400.htm ) and now I want to purchase the Omega3D system. However, I'm not sure wether to buy the small or large LCD kit. I want to install it in front of the lens with some clamps (hopefully finding the right angle). Or would it be easier to install inside? Could I still watch 2D after that? Thanks!


----------



## cerealk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24372980
> 
> 
> Just wonder how you could even been in 120hz mode. 501 did not support it before the update, or is there another 120hz update


This is another update !


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerealk*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373602
> 
> 
> This is another update !



the update released recently for the 501 supports 120hz. it was talked about back a little in this thread.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373695
> 
> 
> the update released recently for the 501 supports 120hz. it was talked about back a little in this thread.


yes i know but there has been another update after that if understood cerealk correctly. I also have update to make 501, 120hz compatible,

i have not flashed it yet. But i don' t know if there s any point of flashing it if there has been released yet another version


----------



## sid-6581




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373687
> 
> 
> 
> the small LCD kit will work fine for external. i would recommend not doing the internal mounting on an LCD. i have had several costumers use the projector you have chosen and loved how our system works with them.
> 
> you can watch 2d with the filters in place if the two images are aligned well enough but its easier to flip one filter out of the way and watch 2d with one unit on. alternate between the two to average the bulb life between the two units.
> 
> do you need a demultiplexer ??


 

Isn't it harder to get the angle right when installing the filter externally? And yes, I do need a demultiplexer, however I might have a source for a G501 or G201 already. If that doesn't work out I would get back to you.


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vaan Janne*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373737
> 
> 
> yes i know but there has been another update after that if understood cerealk correctly. I also have update to make 501, 120hz compatible,
> 
> i have not flashed it yet. But i don' t know if there s any point of flashing it if there has been released yet another version



i think the update you have is the latest. steve could clear this up.


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sid-6581*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373758
> 
> 
> Isn't it harder to get the angle right when installing the filter externally? And yes, I do need a demultiplexer, however I might have a source for a G501 or G201 already. If that doesn't work out I would get back to you.



no its actually easier to get the angle of the filter to work well externally. if you look back at the posts on internal mounting i think i mentioned how critical the angle is in internal mounting, if not i did now







when the F# of the light beam or speed of the beam is very fast the filter becomes more sensitive to angle. it can work well in a DLP to internally mount the filter and its the only good method when using a short throw projector like the BenQ W1070 as externally mounting the filter will not give good results due to the trow.

well we have 201's here and one 501 left ( thought it was sold but they backed out )


----------



## Soulnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24373889
> 
> 
> i think the update you have is the latest. steve could clear this up.



No it's not. Cerealk contacted steve because of his problem with the red and steve made a new firmware available to correct the problem.

But at the begining, cerealk had already what you're naming the new firmware for 120hz.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soulnight*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24394538
> 
> 
> No it's not. Cerealk contacted steve because of his problem with the red and steve made a new firmware available to correct the problem.
> 
> But at the begining, cerealk had already what you're naming the new firmware for 120hz.



i knew it....

maby i should contact steve also to get the newest...allthough i have not even flashed the first 120hz update.


----------



## voldemar72


These glasses will work with your computer without demultiplexer ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151198323085?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *voldemar72*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24497280
> 
> 
> These glasses will work with your computer without demultiplexer ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151198323085?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649



no they wont work without the projection filters and a pair of projectors. the listing was made for someone who wanted 2 more pairs that already had a system


----------



## motorman45

i am testing the new Z version of my omega 3d system. it should have very good eye to eye color balance especially for LCoS like JVC. i will be looking for someone with LCoS projectors to do some beta testing soon that is willing to provide some feedback.

new frame too


----------



## motorman45




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24108700
> 
> 
> proto of new frame , 63mm inter-ocualr instead of the 69mm of the theater frame ( one key to less back reflection ) . lighter better fitting for kids as well as adults, added light blocking to bottom edge and along ear stalk and they fold



this will be the frame using the new Z filter set


----------



## voldemar72




> Цитата:
> не Сообщение от *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24497652
> 
> 
> не они не будут работать без проекционных фильтров и пары проекторов. список был сделан для тех, кто хотел еще 2 пары, которые уже имели систему


Я понимаю, что мне нужно два проектора и два фильтра

​

Я спросить, есть ли необходимость демультиплексор?

​ http://www.vnstw.com/en/products_view.asp?ID=105&BKID=68


----------



## motorman45

?? are you looking for a 501 geobox ? i still have one on hand


----------



## voldemar72




> Цитата:
> Сообщение от *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/540#post_24497888
> 
> ? Вы ищете 501 Geobox? я до сих пор один под рукой
> ​нет
> Переводчик, трудно, вы меня не понимаете
> ​Я спрашиваю вам нужно это необходимым?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## voldemar72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/570#post_24499247
> 
> 
> no you dont need a demultiplexer to split a video to two projectors, you can use a PC with a dual output video card and a program like stereoscopic player. but you will need two projectors and the projector filters along with the glasses.


Thank you! About what I asked!


----------



## Vaan Janne

Motoman. Do you think it would be possible to change current gen omega filtters and glasses + some money into next gen omega set when released ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## photosurrealism

Eager to hear how the Sony laser does, especially if that sort of illumination is going to catch on.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## stanger89

Christie and Barco are showing "6 Primary" Laser DCI machines right now. Sounds like they're using two lasers each, likely with slightly different wavelengths to allow filtering of each eye with Dolby Vision glasses.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Question for motoman

Do you think my mitsubishi HC5 (it has sony SXRD panels)will benefit from cinema filtter built in ? i mean your filtter wise.


"The Cinema Filter increases the purity of colours(particularly green and cyan) by expanding the colour spectrum levels."


By the way any progress on the new filtter set ?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

 http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/Mitsubishi_HC5_Projector.html 


im super glad hc5 has full cms control


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/570#post_24554841
> 
> 
> its possible to put our filter in this location by a clip or something right on top of this existing filter or replace it for 3d viewing in a dual stack.



i was thinking the same. Well see when i get that postion i have the new filtters and a second pj. There is possibilities if one chooses to do internal install.

and hc5 has sweet long throw.


----------



## ugotvijay

Hello Motorman,


Any update on launch date for the new filters and glasses. If I'm going to use DLP projectors, would you recommend to wait for the new filters or I should be fine with with the existing ones.


Also, are the 501 demultiplexers still being sold at your ebay store. I could not find the right link; only see 201 bundles. I may be using a streaming device (WD TV Live) for watching 3D content, in addition to a 3D Bluray player. Do you know if these demultiplexers can handle the SBS signal from a streaming device.


Sorry for too many questions and thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## ugotvijay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/570#post_24713006
> 
> 
> the new version is still in beta testing and i do not have a date. need more development $$ to really launch it. it took a couple of years and several million to make the first released version. i hope to in a few months but i cant put a date on it.
> 
> the existing version is perfect for DLP, no need to wait for the new version for that.
> 
> 
> 
> i have a few 501 boxes you can pm me for info. the 201 i also have and i can sell that with or without a kit. both boxes will split SBS streaming video perfectly from any DVI-D or HDMI source. my current demo rig uses a 501 fed by a cheap 3D BD player. the 201 is the same video processor as the 501, it just is a smaller box and lacks the warp/align tool. i was asked by the maker of the geobox to not put the 501 on ebay and i simply have not made any new listings that include the 201 alone or in smaller bundles. you can get any of the optics or boxes driectly from me.



Just to clarify, the warp/align tool is only important if I use a curved screen, right? for normal flat surface does it matter?


Also, is there is any drop in the video quality when using these demultiplexers?


One of the options I'm thinking is to get Optoma projectors which seem to have inbuilt options to split left and right frames. Having an external demultiplexer would be better as it gives me freedom to choose other brand projectors and also makes alignment easier.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## zorg43x

Do I imagine it correctly, that the shorter throw ratio, the more the distance between the projectors gets important, thus align/warp would be useful for short throw setups?

(in one setup I use extremely long throw ratio and a perfect alignment is easy to achieve with only but lens shift)


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

I wonder what kind of eyes one need to have when saying lens shift or warp is not mandatory in dual setup. Even one projector gets blurry picture in some corner when not exactly in aligned with projector lense, you need to have projection distance of ridiclously long with small pictUre to say you dont need to have lens shift of warp to get the images aligned.

with out eather is just pretending you are watching a good picture. Lens shift is the best choise, warp ok. Key stone blurs the picture a lot, i would not recommend it.

the geobox warp is pretty darn good and softens the image minimally. Did not bother me. Plus you get to have curved screen if you want without expensive glass hardware.

and using super high gain screens the hotspotting was not visible with curved screen, atleast i did not see any with my silver screen, after i curved it.


----------



## zorg43x

as you say, TR was around 3 as I described. But even at home I'm using lens shift only and am still satisfied.

How did you do the curving of the screen? I might to try it too, the hotspotting bothers me quite...


motorman45: sorry, no feedback yet as I don't have Omega filters..YET









But I'm planning for the next year upgrade to 4k projectors. I hope the new version of the filters will be available. I intend to use SXRD panels' projectors from Sony perhaps. Do you think 1700 ANSI lm is suffitient for home use (screen ~10ft in diagonal) for Omega setup and color correction?


----------



## Vaan Janne

I used aluminium frame and metal threaded bars to bend the screen. You get the screen pierced like sail. Then make a metal frame little bigger than the screen. Mount 4 holders to the frame, one top level left side of canvas on the frame, one bottom left. Then the other side. Put a metal threaded pole throuh holders and tie to the screen with small rope. Do both sides, top and bottom of the screen. Then tighten the metal rod with nuts placed on the rod inside of the holder in the frame. Rod starts to bend. Guide it to bend backwards, towards the wall.


----------



## NK215

Motorman,


Can you please edit for your first post to include up-to-date info for your product? Information such as example setup gears etc are greatly appreciated.


I have an active 3D setup (nVidia 3D vision with 12 glasses) which I rarely use due to the fact that I don't like heavy glasses so much. The HTPC has a gtx460 card in it. I also have Quadro4000, Quadro5000, Quadro6000, gtx 580, gtx 660 to use if needed.


What's do I need to get the passive 3D setup? Which 2 projectors are recommended? Do I need converter boxes or just my HTPC with any of the above video card? Do dual HD20 setup work? I really like the HD20 for its size and brightness. Not great black level doesn't really bother me too much.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## NK215




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *motorman45*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/570#post_24763834
> 
> 
> there is no one recommended setup i can post, there are many sets of gear and methods for doing dual passive 3d projection. i do say in the posts that DLP is preferred for its spectral characteristics but we do have a special set of projection filters for LCD.
> 
> my first rigs were just a PC with a quatro card and using the "stereoscopic player" software to split the image to the two DVI outputs on the card and a pair of DLP projectors. thats it. i currently use a rig with a separate video demultiplexer and a pair of optoma HD20's that is great. you have all you need other than the software and a filter / glasses kit and your two projectors.



Thanks. I do have stereoscopic player. I used to rip my 3D BR to mkv files to cut down the size to store on my media player and use stereoscopic player to play. With the new file server, I imaged the disk to ISO and use powerDVD instead.


Is there any concern when paring a new HD20 with an old one? The brightness maybe different due to bulb age between the 2 projectors. How hard was it it line up the image w/o lens shift?


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NK215*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/570#post_24764238
> 
> 
> Thanks. I do have stereoscopic player. I used to rip my 3D BR to mkv files to cut down the size to store on my media player and use stereoscopic player to play. With the new file server, I imaged the disk to ISO and use powerDVD instead.
> 
> 
> Is there any concern when paring a new HD20 with an old one? The brightness maybe different due to bulb age between the 2 projectors. How hard was it it line up the image w/o lens shift?



i would not recommend two very different aged lamps. it´s really hard go get them at the same output level and at the same time colors corrected to match.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## trgraphics

I am having an issue with my G5 01. The right projector keeps flashing. The left projector seems fine. Can you help me out with this.


What sort of equipment do I need to update the firmware on this unit?


----------



## trgraphics

Also, I am trying to watch a 3-D movie on vudu through my Panasonic BDP-320 but I cannot get it to play properly through the G501. Apparently, they do side-by-side, and the G501 does not recognize that format thru vudu. Any help would be appreciated.


I want to get a 3d converter but I am unsure what will work with the g-501?


----------



## Vaan Janne

Geobox only auto detects rame packed 3d. That's why there is a button to switch 3d on if you are watching side by side


----------



## Vaan Janne

Allthough i don't know why anybody would like to watch 3d with SBS... pretty crap compared to frame packed...ofcourse


----------



## trgraphics

I normally don't watch S by S but, I would like to try it. S by S does not work even if I force S by S in the g-501. At least I can't get it to work.


I tried comcast and vudu, neither will work. On Comsat I get a squished dual image, that I can get to stretch out or I get an error message on the Panasnic telling me to change the timing. Am I doing something wrong?


I am going to flash the firmware when I get the cable an see if the unit is having a problem.


----------



## Vaan Janne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trgraphics*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/600#post_24810150
> 
> 
> I normally don't watch S by S but, I would like to try it. S by S does not work even if I force S by S in the g-501. At least I can't get it to work.
> 
> 
> I tried comcast and vudu, neither will work. On Comsat I get a squished dual image, that I can get to stretch out or I get an error message on the Panasnic telling me to change the timing. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> 
> I am going to flash the firmware when I get the cable an see if the unit is having a problem.



hmm... my experiments with geobox were quite easy.. . im not shure is it wise to go flashing a product that does not even do what it suppose to do.

There is always the possibility of hardware failure. have you contacted Steve at vns ?


i have panasonic player the 500 model. atleast with that i get a superb picture. i believe you gott a failure product


----------



## Vaan Janne

are you shure you have not messed up the output. so the other channel is left and other is right.

you can output left or right from both outputs so you can have 2d with dual light output. but here it would not be appropriate


----------



## Vaan Janne

read the manual


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## trgraphics

I appreciate the feedback on the G-501 issue. I have read the manual, again, tried your suggestions, but I still can not get proper S x S playback. All I can see is a squished image , about 1/3 of the screen size. It is in 3d, but not usable. If I try to use it thru my Panasonic player to view vudu 3d, I get an error message about a timing issue.


I can up-convert Blu-ray to 3d thru the panny and it works fine.


I put a couple of S x S movies on my nas for the popcorn hour A400 and I get the same result as above, a squished image when S x S is enabled on the G-501.


This must be a bad unit. Motoman, I purchased this unit from you. Any suggestions on how to proceed.


----------



## Vaan Janne

trgraphics said:


> I appreciate the feedback on the G-501 issue. I have read the manual, again, tried your suggestions, but I still can not get proper S x S playback. All I can see is a squished image , about 1/3 of the screen size. It is in 3d, but not usable. If I try to use it thru my Panasonic player to view vudu 3d, I get an error message about a timing issue.
> 
> 
> I can up-convert Blu-ray to 3d thru the panny and it works fine.
> 
> 
> I put a couple of S x S movies on my nas for the popcorn hour A400 and I get the same result as above, a squished image when S x S is enabled on the G-501.
> 
> 
> This must be a bad unit. Motoman, I purchased this unit from you. Any suggestions on how to proceed.


have you tried the framepacked 3d ?
is the geoboxes output resolution in correct setting ?

i think if your problem is just with sbs it´s propably something else than the geobox.. allthough hardware failure is always a possibily. allthough vns claims to use good components.


----------



## trgraphics

I tried the 3 different settings in the 501, but no luck. The output resolution was tried at 720 and 1080, no luck.


I followed the manual closely. Yesterday I replaced my two bulbs and did a complete re-wire of my system, still no side by side. I guess the unit is just bad. I was not really interested in side by side until I could not get it to work. Now...I have to figure out the problem. The curse of this hobby, I guess.


----------



## Vaan Janne

I know it's friking frustating when things don't work even after spending countles hours solving the problem. And usually the support and help services from manufactures don't know the answer to one's problem.
by the way did you contact steve ? 
He propably could help you. And after all it's vns's problem not motomans, they are the manufacturer. Ultimately the warranty is handled by manufacturer


----------



## trgraphics

Vaan Janne said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *trgraphics*
> 
> I normally don't watch S by S but, I would like to try it. S by S does not work even if I force S by S in the g-501. At least I can't get it to work.
> 
> I tried comcast and vudu, neither will work. On Comsat I get a squished dual image, that I can get to stretch out or I get an error message on the Panasnic telling me to change the timing. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> I am going to flash the firmware when I get the cable an see if the unit is having a problem.
> 
> 
> hmm... my experiments with geobox were quite easy.. . im not shure is it wise to go flashing a product that does not even do what it suppose to do.
> There is always the possibility of hardware failure. have you contacted Steve at vns ?
> 
> i have panasonic player the 500 model. atleast with that i get a superb picture. i believe you gott a failure product


Well, I finally found what the problem was. I had to change scaling within the 501 menu to full screen to get it to work properly. What a relief! So happy it wasn't the unit. I have two Benq 7000 projectors and I guess it is a setting they require when using the 501.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Motoman, how about those new filtter, any time soon now ? 
Any chance plan ? I have gen1 dlp filtters i would like to change for new sxrd version when they are released.
-J-


----------



## zorg43x

Yeah, I would be interested too


----------



## Mojo021

I was referred to this thread in my search for more lumens. I am primarily interested in increasing brightness of the current mid-range lcd/led projectors in order to maintain the superior contrast/image quality of these projectors but on a larger screen (165"+). I am mostly interested in 2d performance but passive 3d is certainly a bonus. My questions:

Is this system a good fit for me- simply stacking projectors to increase lumen output (mostly for 2D)? I am looking at more likely combining two newer, high contrast projectors (panny 8000, epson 5030, sonyhw55, etc.)
Is the math for lumen output as simple as 2 projectors = 2x lumen output?
What am I sacrificing other than $$? Is contrast affected? 

The big pitch on the airflex5d seems to be exactly what I proposed - stack two projectors to increase lumen output but there is no real discussion or reviews on that product. Here is a 20+ page discussion mostly revolved around 3d. It is amazing that to get the brightness I need from a single projector the price tag goes from $2500 to $30,000! Any help is appreciated.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## trgraphics

The 501 does an incredible and fast job of aligning two projectors. I tried for days to get perfect alignment of my projectors before I bought the 501, with no luck. It now takes all of 5 minutes to get a single pixel alignment. It is truly amazing. With 10 bit processing I don't see any degradation of the image even if I try to push the unit with terrible initial alignment of the projectors. I have had a minor issue but it turned out to be specific to my projectors, or maybe just the operator.

I highly recommend this unit to anyone doing a dual setup. You won't regret it!


----------



## Vaan Janne

Image quality is atleast 90% or more from original with warp used. It's really that really good. There is no point of going without geobox if you are running dual proj. Setup
and especially 2 proj. Without lens shift. But i would still recommend 501 even though you have lens shift available.


----------



## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> any LCoS should perform better with the new version. im still testing and waiting on some feedback from LCoS and 3DLP end users. i hope in a couple of months to be able to offer it.
> 
> im not sure what is meant by "The Cinema Filter increases the purity of colours(particularly green and cyan) by expanding the colour spectrum levels." where is this from ?
> 
> the output of a given projector or light engine is what it is. one can only filter or attenuate parts of the spectrum to balance colors i dont believe one can expand spectrum.


i can be one of your "test group" 

just about to pull the trigger tomorrow on another hc5 (sony panels for what i understood)


----------



## Vaan Janne

hou hou... another hc5 is headed my way. Hope somebody buys my omega DLP filtters so i can order the new lcd set when it´s available... if motoman does not send me a demo kit ;D

motoman by the way how of do you think the DLP version filtters be with the hc5 setup ? 
HC5 has pretty extensive configuration to work the colors. if i remember correct is has cms system.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Ok. Ill try them when the second unit arrives.
Ill report back. If there is lots of difference in channels, maby we can arrange something,
a loan or something to test your Zgen. 
I have also talked to Teittinen, you have also propably talked with the guy.
some sort of legend here in finland about HT. He has sophisticated calibration equipment, we can also try 
to get the channels match by calibrating with hardware.

maby hc5's cinema filtter helps with greenS. Allthouh i don't know what is the appropriate way of lowering the light output of the projector that would have the cinema filtter disabled, as it eats some light, and when only one proj has the cinema filtter enabled the lightnes is unbalanced.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> i would be that the cinema filter not only cuts the light down but it cuts the yellow and cyan that my 3d system needs for balance. its possible it works better without the cinema filter and with the 3d filters.. and a little scm adjustments


You are propably right. Filtters usually filtter not add


----------



## Vaan Janne

TESTED....fast test. im on my way to a festival, just got time to build a rack for the second unit and install it yesterday.
remember i have the dlp filtters. 
I think the result is better with my Lcos and dlp filtter than with my old setup, LCD with dlp filtters.
I would looove try out the new lcd filtters. 
I got some of the colors better but some are still off. plus side no ghosting at all. 
the left if i remember corretly had overal yellowish tint that i did not get off at all. the hc5´s cinema filtter has no effect 
on on that channel. the right channel was overwhelmed with more blue when using the cinema filtter, so used them at off position 
from both projectors. the right channel has a blue overal tint on it still. 

i will do more testing when i get back from the festivals. i can also test my polarizers with hc5 but i will not propably compare to a ghost free picture. 

motoman is right on one thing, your eyes get used to the signals after while... at the end of my test session i did not see a quite much difference in left and right channel
but as you can see from the jpg´s they are like from differet color world.
But i was a little bothered about the change in whole color universe change when i fiddled with cms and other color settings to trying to get the
left and right colors match. 

i have really mixed feelings. propably with the right filtters the result is much better and i gotta say the 3d imersion is much better when there is no ghosting on 3d picture,
like with polarizers. and The active flicker is annoying. i rather watch polarized 3d than active.

...just realised i did not upload my jpgs. but i propably will after some more color correction and tweaking. when i have the time.


----------



## Vaan Janne

yellowish is the left one

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/misc.php?do=showattachments&t=1467628


----------



## tonymaxbirt

Hi Motorman, do you have any sets of version 'Z' you could sell? Thanks


----------



## Vaan Janne

tonymaxbirt said:


> Hi Motorman, do you have any sets of version 'Z' you could sell? Thanks


after this "good" experience i want the z too

Or anyone anyone going from LCD to DLP ? let´s change ?


----------



## Vaan Janne

Someone could make color correction filtters for 3dtv.at Stereoscopic Player, that would be cool.


----------



## Vaan Janne

Just watched Gravity again. GOD DAMNIT. omega has it flaws but with my current "calibration" it was like another movie to watch Gravity again. Last time i watched it with my active glasses.
The frame interpolation of HC5 makes the image much more watchable, and in 3D the low framerate of 24p is more of an problem than with 2D but hc5´s interpolation smoothens the edges and is still
watchable even in the most demanding scenes.


----------



## Vaan Janne

lego 3d looked pretty awsome allthough it has lot's of colours. Also gamed dead space with helix mod and it's awsome.
gotta say im pretty close to settling into this dual hc5 omega rig.
And i even don't have the lcd optimised versions of the filtters.


----------



## sulakd

With Omega filters on a dual-projection passive 3d setup, what do you do if you are not watching something in 3d? Do the Omega filters have to be moved out of the way? I read somewhere about internally mounting the Omega filters, and it seems that would be a problem if they have to be moved for 2d viewing.


----------



## Free_born

sulakd said:


> With Omega filters on a dual-projection passive 3d setup, what do you do if you are not watching something in 3d? Do the Omega filters have to be moved out of the way? I read somewhere about internally mounting the Omega filters, and it seems that would be a problem if they have to be moved for 2d viewing.


I will be setting mine up soon and will internally mount the filters in two Benq W1070 projectors. I intend to always run both projectors for 2D and 3D. My hope is that the dual projectors provide enough light that I can forget the filters are in place.

Eventually I plan to use two Benq SH940's for my game / theater room with internally mounted filters but by the time I'm ready a better projector set may be available.

If you look back to Motorman's post a page or two back you'll see he keeps his filters in place for 2D viewing on a 170" screen.


----------



## Judson Cass

Can anyone help me I have a str-k750p sony surround sestem and my CD button stays on so I can't change my channels what can I do thanks


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## imbloodyskint

I have 2 x w1070 stacked setup (one ontop of the other) 
Filters fitted inside, vns geo 201 demuxer. one has slight green tinit, the other has slight violet tint, but can adjust MOST of that out when just using one for 2d video.
Also,
one appears to be slightly dimmer/darker, but again just adjust contrast or brightness to compensate.

To be able to get them to line up really (Not perfect) I removed one of the w1070's adjuster screws sliding cover to get both of them as close as possible so not having to use alot of offset.

Only issue I find, is I now get alot more light leakage coming out of the front and side vents which show on the ceiling and side wall, seems the filters maybe the problem as wasn't anywhere near as bad before fitting them inside the w1070's.

One day I WILL make something to sit infront of the vents which will defuse/block the light, yet still allow the heat to escape.(using black spandex and brackets)


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## Vaan Janne

Just gamed metro REDUX with my sli gtx660ti rig and omega setup. MAN IT BLEW MY MIND... i coul not stop saying wow this is frikin´awsome.
I can nothing but recommend the HC5 dual rig with omega.


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## stee1hed

sulakd said:


> With Omega filters on a dual-projection passive 3d setup, what do you do if you are not watching something in 3d? Do the Omega filters have to be moved out of the way? I read somewhere about internally mounting the Omega filters, and it seems that would be a problem if they have to be moved for 2d viewing.


As stated in another post, each filter adds it's own tint to the picture. For 2D content the best picture for me comes from using 1 projector and removing the filter from the front of it.

Some people do both projectors with the filters on but they must be aligned very close for that, closer than when watching something in 3D and you're burning both 'non-cheap' bulbs.

It's a personal preference. The only right way is what makes you happy.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Kxtr73

I'm thinking about dual projector passive 3d from long time. However I have many doubts how to spend my cash well. *PS*. I can use only LCD projectors. Bulb or LED DLP PJ-s give me eye strain.

My PC: AMD Phenom X4 965 BE/AMD Radeon 7770 is capable to handle Tridef playing in 2x full 720p or SBS 1080p . Sony vpl-dw120 1280x800 3xLCD business projector (not 3d) which I have gives satisfactory cinema image. (to have better black level I painted my wall on grey). Gaming: input lag is great, but 800p is rather too low and unsatisfactory vs playing on monitor.

*1.* grab another new Sony vpl-dw120 for 500USD or buy used (teoretically on paper very similar) Epson TH-TW450 for 200 USD. Set up at first DOLBY 3D with colour correction made by software (free testing becouse I bought 3 glasses for cheap). And have extra 2D playing in 2560x720. Next plan -> Omega System. 

cons: still 800p and everybody is going to 1080p now

*2.* or sell my Sony and buy Epson 2030 (TH-TW5200) for 870 USD new/562 USD used - no lens shift too. 
Before selling Sony try to made 720p passive. Eventually buy another used one in future to made passive 3d 1080p cinema.

Higher 1080p LCD PJ are too costly and DLP is not an option for me (eye strain).

pro: 1080p in 2D, 1080p 24Hz 3D, a little more detailed 1080p 60HZ SBS then 2x720P 3D
cons: 100 ms input lag and shutter glasses which I don't really like (head pain, eye strain)

*3.* Wait becouse there is not good solution without purchase a new powerful PC and 2 more expensive LCD (with better input lag) (SXRD is out of my league) and investing in 720p path especially without lens shift is obsolete.

What do You think ? I have temptation to buy 2030 used/or TW-450 used for even less, but both PJ could be somewhat different in many ways to my Sony and without lens shift. Maybe second Sony is safer purchase but more costly when going this way.

Still I had to live with some little trapezoid distortion in 3D when projecting 130' from 4 metres. (Even +-1 keystone deteriorate picture too much for me). Simply I don't want to waste my money on experiments.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

motoman. 
no info on those new filtters ? are them cancelled ?
i don´t remember if i ask this already but, the bjomejag said i have no advance with lcd versions of the omega filtters over dlp version (i have), do you agree ?
i have the mitsubishi hc5 (Sxrd).


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## Kxtr73

Thank You *motorman45* for fast answer. I bought finally used Epson EH-TW5200 in EU (Epson 2030 in US) for 2/3 price of new one (for 560 USD). I was very lucky becouse it was totally new PJ without any sign of use in perfect condition.

First I tried stacking of mine Sony 800p with new Epson 1080p with Dolby glass filters (both in 1080p). After 5 minutes I made almost perfect alignment. Of course colours in every eye was different, but overall effect was good. However I found it somewhat not so comfortable to eyes. Probably not corrected colours, different level of brightness in every eye and a little missaligment made it. Watching 3D Dolby in Cinema I had not such problems. I can use fixes from: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/191-3...0p-3d-color-correction-not-really-needed.html to see how it made situation better.

Then I tried active 3d of Epson. I found it shockingly good for me. More pop then in Dolby and without almost any eye stress. I can't see any crosstalk, but image is a little to dark whith active. So for now I will stick with it. Mayby in future I will go with dual PJ passive to full 3D gaming. Final clue: 1080p is much better then 720p and active 3D is not so bad as I thought


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## Jouka

Hi,

I am doing video design for a big drama theater production.

We are planning to include 3D section where audience would have 3D glasses on. 

Projection surfaces are quite unconventional and we can't use silver screens. 
We could go for active glasses, but I don't personally like them and I am not sure how they would perform with live actors.

Omega filters seems like promising passive option.

Have any one of you tried those filters with big dlp projectors? For example with Christie digital or Barco, 18K or higher. 

And do you have any experience about non white (black or blue) projection surfaces?


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## motorman45

image here


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## Jouka

motorman45 said:


> I have an end user who has done exactly this. my filters will work perfectly for this kind of application. as long as a surface has some reflected light it will function.
> as far as large projectors, my system was originally designed and used in cinema and works great with these untits. in fact better than UHP lamp home theater untis. i have large sets of filters that fit over the end of a pair of large Barco projector lenses.
> its not a cheap system but it is the only way to do a stereo projection like this other than shutter glasses. PM me for details


Great. Thank you for the info. I would love to find a passive solution for this, because I have my doubts how the shutter glasses function with stage lighting and real live people in stage.

Unfortunately my post count does not allow me to PM you, but could you PM your email address and I can forward it to the people how take care of the technical arrangements for this production.


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## motorman45

image here


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## Free_born

I received my Geobox G-501 last night to complete my Omega 3D setup. I'm running two Benq W1070 projectors and mounted the filters internally just past the condenser lens, cutting the filters from the experimenters kit and using a little high temp rtv silicone adhesive.

For 1080p/24 frame packed 3D it looks incredible! I found tearing if I sent 24p straight through to the projectors but by letting the geobox send 1080p/60 to each projector it looked great. I did not have much time last night but watched scenes from Gravity and Frozen.

I am quite pleased for movie use. Next up is to figure out how to get the 1920 X 1080 X 120Hz Nvidia 3D working 

Free


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## imbloodyskint

Free_born said:


> mounted the filters internally just past the *condenser lens*, cutting the filters from the experimenters kit and using a little high temp rtv silicone adhesive.


Were exactly are they in the W1070?


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## Free_born

imbloodyskint said:


> Were exactly are they in the W1070?


Hello,

I may be using the wrong term. I mounted my filters in the same location philiwahnilli did in post #233 on page 8 of this thread. I actually glued mine to the plastic cover which houses the spherical mirror, right against the opening the light comes into from what I called the condenser lens.

I received an email from Steve from vns last night as well and have dual link DVI working on my geobox now. Until I get a display port cable it offers me 1920 X 1080 60hz 3D (60Hz per eye).

Once I have a display port cable then I'll have sound as well as the high frame rate 

Free


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## trgraphics

Is there a method for reducing the reflections from the inside of the glasses? I have added foam to the frame and done away with external reflection. Now, I get reflections from my face in the lenses. Any thing that can be applied to the inner part of the lease to reduce this effect?


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Chrodarcniss

motorman45 said:


> I hate to say but we will be out of stock soon for a little while on optics. our production will be interrupted for a little while while, if anyone is interested in a kit i would get your order in now while i have some stock


Hi Motorman, is production still stopped or running again?


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## motorman45

image here


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## zorg43x

Did you try it with the new laser projectors eg. Sony VPL-FHZ55? Can they be used or they have too narrow spectrum?


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## Vaan Janne

I wen´t to see Panasonic 6000. Oh my god the active 3D, atleast for that particular projector was CRAP compared to my dual HC5 omega setup.

If any one sels his LCD version of omega filtters. im interested to try. I do have dlp versions that are claimed to me better for Lcos by some 
but i refuse to believe. Offer them to me in good price


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## philiwahnilli

*New Sony Laser projector*



zorg43x said:


> Did you try it with the new laser projectors eg. Sony VPL-FHZ55? Can they be used or they have too narrow spectrum?


Hi, 
according to the Sony white paper their technology it not a real pure laser technology like a scanning system an there should be no issue with narrow laser spectra that lasers inherently have. 
https://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/projectors/Laser_Projectors_X1A.pdf
There have been similar hybrid systems using red and blue LED in combination with a blue laser (which was used to illuminate a green phospor). The LED spectra are pretty narrow, so i guess this is an issue with omega 3D filters. 

This sony projector uses ONE blue laser to illuminate a white phospor which emits a much wider spectrum than the RGB lasers itself. The PDF shows that the phosphor is just used as the new white light source and is splitted into the primary colors using dicroitic mirrors again, just like "usual" 3LCD projectors do. So Omega LCD filters should work very well, In my opinion.

Best,
phil


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## Vaan Janne

Some one should make a3d compatible bulp with large gamut


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## Vaan Janne

Motoman. Could one get near perfect color balance even with LCD projector if 
One would have a display adapter with frame lock on pc and would calibrate each projecor through filter so one cold have spesific color profiles for left and right projector ?


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## clausdk

Is anyone using a HTPC with gtx970 using dual dvi output? Just found this thread sounds interesting. I was looking at 2 x benq 1070 to do the job and using a HTPC as the source and L/R splitter rather than the geobox. Recommended or just get the box?


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## Vaan Janne

clausdk said:


> Is anyone using a HTPC with gtx970 using dual dvi output? Just found this thread sounds interesting. I was looking at 2 x benq 1070 to do the job and using a HTPC as the source and L/R splitter rather than the geobox. Recommended or just get the box?


PM imbloodyskint , if i remember correctly he had 1070 with omega experimental kit internally installed. 
Ps. BenQ lens shift is not enough. You kind of need the geobox to Also get the pj's lined up properly, without bigger compromises.


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## clausdk

Vaan Janne said:


> PM imbloodyskint , if i remember correctly he had 1070 with omega experimental kit internally installed.
> Ps. BenQ lens shift is not enough. You kind of need the geobox to Also get the pj's lined up properly, without bigger compromises.



Ok thanks. I guess I can still use a HTPC for playback.


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## imbloodyskint

I did manage to get 2x w1070 to line up very close to perfect, but have to sit one directly on top of the other one AND one has to have the lens adjuster cover removed to get them as close together as possible.

The hard part is adjusting then because you can not easily adjust the top one once its sat on top of the lower one.


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## clausdk

imbloodyskint said:


> I did manage to get 2x w1070 to line up very close to perfect, but have to sit one directly on top of the other one AND one has to have the lens adjuster cover removed to get them as close together as possible.
> 
> The hard part is adjusting then because you can not easily adjust the top one once its sat on top of the lower one.


Wow ok. Worth the hazzle or go with another pj? Its just so cheap and good!


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## imbloodyskint

clausdk said:


> Wow ok. Worth the hazzle or go with another pj? Its just so cheap and good!


For me, not so much.

BUT,
Thats only because I have really bad Astigmatism in both eyes, so don't get much, if any 3D pop out, I only get a bit of depth in the image, which in itself is nice.

If you don't have Astigmatism, like the other members of my family and friends, then YES 100% worth it.

They have told me the pop out is "Just amazing" and "Unreal", 
they say about 7-8 foot pop out from the screen.


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## clausdk

Ok great. Other than the benq and optoma I cant think of an affordable solution. Trying to keep the cost down and maybe try getting it working without the geobox.


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## imbloodyskint

I went for the w1070 due to lack of room length because with the optoma I could only get a small screen size, but with the benq I get a much larger image.

I can only comment on aligning the benq w1070 because I have not tried with 2 optoma projectors.


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## clausdk

Ok thanks. Does anyone know if the geobox can shrink and stretch a 16:9 image to fit a scope screen? Cant find a user manuel. I know a lumagen scaler can do this with their non linear scaling.


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## Vaan Janne

clausdk said:


> Ok thanks. Does anyone know if the geobox can shrink and stretch a 16:9 image to fit a scope screen? Cant find a user manuel. I know a lumagen scaler can do this with their non linear scaling.


With 501 you can project into a ball surface.
Ask vnstw tobe shure


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## Vaan Janne

My projector is going through service and i was looking at the omega filtter at the shelf and started seeing 
differently through the filtter as i moved my head, and i noticed the tint seen through the filtter is different when the filtter is 
in different angle. 
when i last watched a movie the ghosting was zero, does that mean that the filtters are in correct angle ? 
...just wondering it might ease the tintint if i would tilt the filtters differently ?
but does it ruin the extinction ? 

-J-


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## spectrogj

Vaan Janne said:


> My projector is going through service and i was looking at the omega filtter at the shelf and started seeing
> differently through the filtter as i moved my head, and i noticed the tint seen through the filtter is different when the filtter is
> in different angle.
> when i last watched a movie the ghosting was zero, does that mean that the filtters are in correct angle ?
> ...just wondering it might ease the tintint if i would tilt the filtters differently ?
> but does it ruin the extinction ?
> 
> -J-


filters should be perpendicular to the beam coming out of the projector, tilting them will misalign them and you will get crosstalk. they look different at angle because there are multibands of light.


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## Vaan Janne

spectrogj said:


> filters should be perpendicular to the beam coming out of the projector, tilting them will misalign them and you will get crosstalk. they look different at angle because there are multibands of light.


Ok. Then i have my filtters perfectly.
I get absolutely zero crosstalkia with white on black


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## Deja Vu

I finally got my Omega system set up but I'm having one particular problem.

O.K. here goes. I'm using an Epson 6010 and 6020 stacked as my two projectors with a Daylite 2.8 gain HP screen. Everything is set up and working -- the 3D looks great (even the colour is pretty good). Now here's the problem. After a couple of minutes of watching the right lens in the glasses goes dark -- it shuts down for some reason for probably five or six seconds and you can only see out of one eye for those seconds. Yes this is annoying for everyone watching (my wife gave up watching -- too annoying). I have no idea how a passive lens that you can normally see through can go so dark for several seconds that nearly all the light is blocked. After those seconds it flicks back to normal transparency and everything is O.K. for a few minutes and then it repeats itself.

I love this system -- no ghosting whatsoever and I'm getting plenty of brightness for some exceptional 3D. Just this one problem is keeping me from really enjoying the Omega 3D. Any help with this would be most appreciated.


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## FoulFoot

The problem wouldn't be the glasses; as you mentioned, they're passive. It's the light coming from one of the projectors that's switching polarity. If both projectors are actually displaying an image when this occurs, then the fault lies in the demuxing solution you're using.

A follow-on question to anyone who knows: where can you actually purchase a Geobox? The VNS website is useless (and clearly in Taiwan), and I can't find an outlet anywhere that sells them.

Foul


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## Deja Vu

FoulFoot said:


> The problem wouldn't be the glasses; as you mentioned, they're passive. It's the light coming from one of the projectors that's switching polarity. If both projectors are actually displaying an image when this occurs, then the fault lies in the demuxing solution you're using.
> 
> Foul


How do I do this -- how do I change the "demuxing" solution I'm using?

I thought this system didn't rely on polarization. I'm a little confused.


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## Vaan Janne

its not the glas that goes dark  it´s just filtter. your other projectror stops to have signal. 
I have had that kind of problems last time i swithed my crappy hdmi 1.4 cable to left projector into hdmi 1.3 cable. 
it was propably due the fact hdmi 1.3 is not compatible with [email protected] is it ? anyway problem was fixed after i replaced the
hdmi back to my 1.4 cable.

So i would advice you to have the both output cables from geobox high quality hdmi 1.4a cables. Well no need to go crazy with the price but some 
little more expensive cables than the cheapest.


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## Deja Vu

Vaan Janne said:


> its not the glas that goes dark  it´s just filtter. your other projectror stops to have signal.
> I have had that kind of problems last time i swithed my crappy hdmi 1.4 cable to left projector into hdmi 1.3 cable.
> it was propably due the fact hdmi 1.3 is not compatible with [email protected] is it ? anyway problem was fixed after i replaced the
> hdmi back to my 1.4 cable.
> 
> So i would advice you to have the both output cables from geobox high quality hdmi 1.4a cables. Well no need to go crazy with the price but some
> little more expensive cables than the cheapest.


I think you're right. When the right lens cut out I had a look at my projectors and it was on but not sending an image. I'll try some different cables -- thanks.


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## motorman45

image here


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

come on motoman. It´s time for those new filtters ! I can´t stand it anymore.
hope my motivation helped ;D

ps. with hc5 the dynamic mode gives about the best color balance. allthough i don´t know if one
can get to the same settings using user. it´s quite hard to start with user and without any tools 
trying to get the colors match. and the other filtter cuts more light to my oppinnion so hc5´s adjustable
iris great to balance the light output. So it´s pretty good but it always can be better so that´s why im eager.
and the oculus rift is coming. when released i might be giving up the passive and go VR all the way. 

-J-


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> im not sure when i can get to a new version at the moment. i have a very large passive 3d project i cant talk about that takes all my machine time. got to do what pays first. ........lasers....
> i dont get the oculus rift thing. its a heads up display plain and simple. not new at all and been done by others just a small tweak on the geometry and better displays. not to be shared with others in the same room. i would think a home made cave would be better or a half cave with a curved dome like screen, thats been done too and is as immersive as a HUD.


it´s the head tracking that makes it the bomb. ofcourse it needs to be spot on. 
it´s the fact you can look behind your shoulder. ok curved dome that extends around you also would pretty much do it.
and in 3d gaming the imersion is even better with screen if you move closer to screen so the image fills your field of view.


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## imbloodyskint

Vaan Janne said:


> dynamic mode gives about the best color balance. allthough i don´t know if one
> can get to the same settings using user. it´s quite hard to start with user and without any tools
> *trying to get the colors match. and the other filtter cuts more light* to my oppinnion so hc5´s adjustable
> iris great to balance the light output.
> 
> -J-


I know what ya mean about one filter cutting out more light then the other resulting in lighter/darker images and colours between images.
Another thing I have noticed is that one filter seems to give more over saturated colours or add I THINK its called luminance to colours.

I am trying to look into if bulbs wavelength can affect filters because I noticed that the w1070 in ISF mode has 1-6 wavelength settings/adjustment, so it must be in ISF menu only for a reason???
Just need to try and findout why it has adjustable wavelength and what affects it has to the screen image??


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## motorman45

image here


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## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> bulbs dont have adjustable wavelengths. maybe the filter wheel has adjustments that appear to make color variation. UHP bulbs lack red performance oveall but sometimes its the native spectral output of the projector that creates more color imbalance than other units. JVC has this issue with my filters more so than some DLP i run. i have near ideal brightness and color balance with my optomas. but not the best with a pair of cheap infoucus projectors i have.


You should start making custom bulbs for us 😛


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## Vaan Janne

Anyone in europe interested to buy my omega dlp filtters, so
I can buy the LCD versions ? Private mail me.


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## imbloodyskint

motorman45 said:


> bulbs dont have adjustable wavelengths. maybe the filter wheel has adjustments that appear to make color variation. UHP bulbs lack red performance oveall but sometimes its the native spectral output of the projector that creates more color imbalance than other units. JVC has this issue with my filters more so than some DLP i run.* i have near ideal brightness and color balance with my optomas*. but not the best with a pair of cheap infoucus projectors i have.


Wish I had the skills to get my 2 w1070 to match up brightness and colours alot more.
Mainly because I use one now and again to watch 2d and for pc and the green or violet tint from each 3d filter drives me mad and one being darker then the other.
Maybe time to try play with the ISF night or day presets?????


----------



## Jouka

motorman45 said:


> I have an end user who has done exactly this. my filters will work perfectly for this kind of application. as long as a surface has some reflected light it will function.
> as far as large projectors, my system was originally designed and used in cinema and works great with these untits. in fact better than UHP lamp home theater untis. i have large sets of filters that fit over the end of a pair of large Barco projector lenses.
> its not a cheap system but it is the only way to do a stereo projection like this other than shutter glasses. PM me for details


We tested your 3D system last December and the result was quite impressive. Now the problem is that me and our technical crew have tried to contact you and Omega Optical multiple time through email, but we got no answer. And now we are totally unaware is our quite big order possible and can we continue planning to use your system in our project.

Please contact me as soon as possible.

PS. I am sorry that I am still unable to send PMs because of my post count.


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## Vaan Janne

does anyone else use mitsubishi hc5 with omega filtters ?

Im currently using new settings. and i get pretty good results. 
today i tested my HQ linear polarizers with harkness spectral 300 sample... Yes i kind of like it more because of the more balanced color uniformity and lighter glasses.
BUT i also like the fact the omega is ghost free and does not suffer from annoing sparkly silverscreen caused picture. so it´s more clean. Allthough i don´t find the ghosting
on movies a problem with good screen (dispite my earlier statement about polarizing would be too ghosty) allthough in some games it might be a problem, because white on black is 
something polarizers don´t handle. 
any ways i got the color balance pretty good with omega and the picture is more sharp than with silverscreen and linears. and it´s zero ghosting, Im begging to get to that
conclusion, im gonna buy a spectral 300 screen so i can watch majority of movies with polarizers and some with omega and solely Game with omega filtters. And get a second 
screen on top of my curver frame that would be hosting the spectral.

But if i was to choose from only one system i propbly would go with omega 

And bare in mind i gotta the DLP version of the omega filtters and i have Sxrd panels in my mitsubishi so the LCD versions of omega might do me even better picture
but im not gonna buy then and test because they ain´t cheap enough to find out there is no real enhancment in the situation, if that would be the case.


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## Free_born

Hello,

I was wondering motorman45 if you all will be offering the Geobox G-602 processor for sale?

I've been loving my luggable passive 3D setup I built with your filters and the Geobox G-501 and want to build a fixed setup in my new home in a few months. When I do, will the newer video processor be available?


----------



## motorman45

Hi. im glad your loving the passive setup. i do not think we will be offering the 601 but you can get it direct from the maker


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## dejoro

Hello from France,

For passive 3D with 2 projectors, what is your opinion with 2 Sony HW40ES? Will this be enough light filters with Omega?

I will also buy a Geobox G-501.

What would be the best support for filters to be placed in the spotlight? Articulated arms?

Thank you for your answers


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## Vaan Janne

I found out i have atleast one pair of my glasses faulty. have you heard of any motoman ?


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## Vaan Janne

I bought the LCD versions of the filtters and i totta say it's even better now the color balance. With few minutes of tweaking i got better color balance.
After im sort of done with the adjusting i could TaKe couple screenshots to show the current setup.


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## funkzvv

Vaan Janne said:


> Anyone in europe interested to buy my omega dlp filtters, so
> I can buy the LCD versions ? Private mail me.


Vaan Janne, do you still have them?

I will like to set up a 3D screening room at my school with 2 optomas EH501 (Switzerland).
I couldn't pm you since my account here lack the permissions (


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## funkzvv

Great news, I just replied via email.

With my colleague here we wonder if the Optomas we have are compatible with this filters. What we got is 2 of these:
Optoma EH501, DLP, FullHD, 5000 ANSI, 15000:1, 3D ready, v. Lens Shift

Also, if we decide to get a GeoBox will it suffice with the 201 version? and excuses but, how will it compare against the advertised airflex5D system that seems to be a discontinued product.

Needless to say but any advice is highly appreciated at this point of our learning curve.


----------



## Ted Miller

Hi. First post, but following this thread since February, from page 1 to 24. We're ready to turn part of our unfinished basement into a small home theater, and I'd really like to start with 3D, not just work up to it later. Due to my wife's sensitivities during 3D movies, the Geobox 501 with Omega filters seems a perfect (but likely expensive) choice. Three questions: 1) Can anyone tell me how much a Geobox 501 costs? I've emailed an eBay seller with Omega glasses and 201 but haven't heard back. I also contacted VNS and Taiwantrade. 2) I hope to use two LG PF1500 pj's, which are LED. Do you know if Omega will work with LED projectors? My next stop is to drop an email with Omega. 3) Finally, there's been very little discussion about it here but is anyone familiar with the Airflex5D as a 501 alternative? It gets mixed reviews on Amazon -- one says it was excellent quality with an awful manual, another says it arrived defective and they got no customer service. Thanks. I'm hope to become part of the conversation here by year's end.


----------



## Rugrash

Ted Miller said:


> is anyone familiar with the Airflex5D as a 501 alternative? It gets mixed reviews on Amazon -- one says it was excellent quality with an awful manual, another says it arrived defective and they got no customer service. Thanks. I'm hope to become part of the conversation here by year's end.


What review are you referring to? 

I do not see a reviewer stating that they got a defective unit and no customer service!!


----------



## Ted Miller

Rugrash said:


> What review are you referring to?
> 
> I do not see a reviewer stating that they got a defective unit and no customer service!!


http://www.amazon.com/AF5D-20-Airfl...TF8&qid=1441776680&sr=8-4&keywords=airflex+5d

It seems the Airflex 5D is discontinued, but I know the Geobox 501 is still being made overseas. Anyone know how the 5D models compare to current Geoboxes? Any chance there are still firmware upgrades available, if needed?


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Ag4t

Hey motorman, I want to try omega setup on 2 jvc x3, but can't figure out what type of filters I need, dlp or lcd.. Can you help me? Thank you


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Ag4t

Thank you!)


----------



## Ted Miller

*OK then, how about this?*

While we were waiting on our bank, Epson came out with the 2040, very well reviewed on ProjectorCentral.com. At this price point, I can give up on the LG PF1500 LED's and get a system compatible with Omega 3D. I have quotes from Omega Optical and VNS on the Geobox. These are 2200 lumen projectors in a light-controlled dark room and there will be 2 of them. What gain do you recommend for the screen? Projector Central's calculator recommends placing the projector 11'9" from the screen, shooting for a 100" to 110" screen with 0.8 gain. Do I need to change any data due to having two projectors? I plan a ceiling mount, if that matters. I may need to do side-by-side rather than stacked due to the maximum 7 1/2' ceiling height. Again, thanks for any advice -- and for urging me to reconsider my other choices.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Ted Miller

The Epson 2040 is a 3LCD projector, so that will work with an LCD version of Omega 3D. My problem now is where to put them. I'm getting conflicting advice from theater installation pros here, because nobody is familiar with dual projector 3D, much less white-light 3D. They say, "Oh, well, polarized lenses cut your lumens by half! So judge by the lumens of one projector!" (not a direct quote, BTW). But with Omega, I don't cut the light in half, I double it.


----------



## motorman45

image here


----------



## Vaan Janne

Ted Miller said:


> The Epson 2040 is a 3LCD projector, so that will work with an LCD version of Omega 3D. My problem now is where to put them. I'm getting conflicting advice from theater installation pros here, because nobody is familiar with dual projector 3D, much less white-light 3D. They say, "Oh, well, polarized lenses cut your lumens by half! So judge by the lumens of one projector!" (not a direct quote, BTW). But with Omega, I don't cut the light in half, I double it.


offcourse you cut some light when using anykind of filter system. but to begin with there is 2 projectors so you can cut in half and you still have same amount of 
light than with one active projector. And my opponnion is that no matter what passive 3d system you are using, you won´t wanna watch active never ever after that.
and if your passive system is not good enough, you´ll just watch 2D and dream of working passive 3D setup. no going back there. kind of the up and down of 3D.

"I'm getting conflicting advice from theater installation pros here, because nobody is familiar with dual projector 3D"
do you know any professional installation guy in any jobdiscription that knows about anything else than what they are installing ?
average joe just does his job, no matter what line of work. few of us are interested really to push the boundries and be interested on new or old tech that
could help some one someday.

and there is these active polarizing systems that can´t be said to be really passiv allthough the system uses then passive glasses but it´s still flickery due to the
fact of using only one projector. offcourse it cuts the light to half. tru passive where you plit the signal from the source to 2 (left and right) and use deticated projectors
for each eye.

by the way i learned a new thing yeasterday. i bought new perscription glasses. bought one´s with glass lenses...kept my mind. they tried to sell me the plastic ones again.
im in dirt conditions so i rub them alot, so i wanted glass. but i also bought another pair super expensive glasses with plastic lenses...and yes the GLASS lenses are 
sharper than plastic. yes the plastic ones are also really good but you can´t beat the sharpness or reall glass lense. 
i think motoman could verify im right ?


----------



## wanderer

Ted Miller said:


> The Epson 2040 is a 3LCD projector, so that will work with an LCD version of Omega 3D. My problem now is where to put them. I'm getting conflicting advice from theater installation pros here, because nobody is familiar with dual projector 3D, much less white-light 3D. They say, "Oh, well, polarized lenses cut your lumens by half! So judge by the lumens of one projector!" (not a direct quote, BTW). But with Omega, I don't cut the light in half, I double it.


 With the Omega system you're going to lose about 70% of the light from each projector. 

Vaan Janne - Do you have a way to measure what the light output from one of your projectors is before and after you put the filter and glasses in the path? I did take these measurements myself at one point, but for now I can't find them.


----------



## Ted Miller

wanderer said:


> With the Omega system you're going to lose about 70% of the light from each projector.
> 
> Vaan Janne - Do you have a way to measure what the light output from one of your projectors is before and after you put the filter and glasses in the path? I did take these measurements myself at one point, but for now I can't find them.


Hold the phone. I've read this thread so often I feel like you know the people here, but this 70% figure is a surprise. I thought the idea was that it's a "white light" system as close to watching without a filter as you can get (with color shifting), and not like wearing sunglasses in a dark room. Why so much light loss?


----------



## wanderer

Is anyone else seeing that many of the posts from motorman45 are now showing as being edited and replaced with blank content? 

Ted - As you've probably read in this thread, the way the Omega and Dolby systems work is that half of the light wavelengths are removed per projector. The projector filters on the left channel keep some wavelengths, the right channel keeps the opposite ones. The glasses are also tinted (not clear) and have a reflective appearance on the lenses, so again some light is lost there. From memory I measured about a 70% light loss in an LCD projector setup and I suspect this will be + or - depending on your type of projector (DLP\LCD) and lamp (UHP or Zenon). Hopefully another forum member or motorman can comment here on what they have measured.

See http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ctical-discussion-thread-77.html#post30021969 post 2294 for some comments on light and spectrum bands. Post 413 in this thread has some digital cinema measured numbers by motorman but the actual Omega home use is higher than this.


----------



## Ted Miller

wanderer said:


> Is anyone else seeing that many of the posts from motorman45 are now showing as being edited and replaced with blank content?
> 
> Ted - As you've probably read in this thread, the way the Omega and Dolby systems work is that half of the light wavelengths are removed per projector. The projector filters on the left channel keep some wavelengths, the right channel keeps the opposite ones. The glasses are also tinted (not clear) and have a reflective appearance on the lenses, so again some light is lost there...
> 
> See http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ctical-discussion-thread-77.html#post30021969 post 2294 for some comments on light and spectrum bands.


I'm showing my lack of understanding here despite all I've read. I remembered that post (though I couldn't have pointed to it) because it bolstered my thinking that Omega was like an advanced form of cyan-yellow type of 3D: It separates colors just enough to create an illusion of depth but "opposite" filters in the glasses put the spectrum (the "white" light) back together again. I thought this was why Omega doesn't need a silver screen, because you get back about as many lumens as the projectors dish out. I'm still going forward with Omega but was surprised it wasn't so different from going with a polarized filter in the fact you lose quite a bit of the light. It still has many advantages over polarized.

And yes, all I see of Motorman45's comments are "Image here."


----------



## zorg43x

Possible lawsuit against motorman45 that he is somehow infringing whatever from Infitec/Dolby?


----------



## sanderdvd

For those who might my interested in buying a top notch Dolby 3D passive system:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/252-f...assive-dual-projector-setup.html#post37867729


----------



## Vaan Janne

zorg43x said:


> Possible lawsuit against motorman45 that he is somehow infringing whatever from Infitec/Dolby?


what ? is this a creation of someones mind ?

if it´s true i gotta say, my spare omega dlp filtters resel value jumped through the roof 

Let´s hope it´s not. motoman just wanted to help the community with reasanoble priced product.


----------



## zorg43x

Well then why would he sweep all the traces out of a sudden blue?


----------



## Vaan Janne

zorg43x said:


> Well then why would he sweep all the traces out of a sudden blue?


you can´t delete anything nowdays.


----------



## Ted Miller

I purchased a pair of Epson 2040's but they're on back-order. I'm hoping someone here is familiar with them and knows whether I should order the small (33x53mm) Omega filters or if I would be safer going with the much-more-expensive large (53x73mm) filters. The specs suggest the same body and lens as the Epson 2030.


----------



## Vaan Janne

anyone need omega dlp filtters ?


----------



## twinkletoes2035

Vaan Janne said:


> anyone need omega dlp filtters ?


I might be interested.

Can you send me a PM with more info? I can't send a PM to you until I have a few more posts.


----------



## twinkletoes2035

twinkletoes2035 said:


> I might be interested.
> 
> Can you send me a PM with more info? I can't send a PM to you until I have a few more posts.


I am in the US.


----------



## sanderdvd

I think this might be very interesting for people who always wanted passive 3D at home 


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/252-f...tec-dolby-3d-passive-3d-kit.html#post38344545


----------



## motorman45

sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future. 
cheers. out


----------



## sanderdvd

So if anyone is interested in a Dolby 3D / Infitec decoder to get passive 3D, here is a rare opportunity:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/252-f...ec-dolby-3d-passive-dual-projector-setup.html


----------



## wanderer

motorman45 said:


> sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future.
> cheers. out


Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear you aren't with Omega optical anymore. Please do stick around AVS though as you have plenty of knowledge about 3D passive systems!


----------



## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future.
> cheers. out


ROLF i won´t buy that for a second.


----------



## space2001

Anyone know if this system is compatible with the new crop of LED or Laser projectors.

Was looking at getting 2 of the LG1500 LED for a quick 3d setup.


----------



## stanger89

When I asked about LED before, motorman said no, since the primaries are too pure (narrow spectrum).


----------



## space2001

Too Bad, Is motorman gone from omega.


----------



## spectrogj

space2001 said:


> Anyone know if this system is compatible with the new crop of LED or Laser projectors.
> 
> Was looking at getting 2 of the LG1500 LED for a quick 3d setup.


Won't work with LED or laser projectors

Best spectrum for Omega is with DLP projectors, throw ratio of 1.5:1 or better


----------



## BlackShark

spectrogj said:


> Won't work with LED or laser projectors
> Best spectrum for Omega is with DLP projectors, throw ratio of 1.5:1 or better


To be more precise : Omega is designed for professional DLP projectors with Xenon lamp.
If I remember correctly, the "LCD" version of the Omega filter is a modified filter for one specific professional LCD projector with Xenon lamp (probably a Sony SXRD cinema projector).
The further away from these wide spectrums your projector is, the worse the colour will get.

For consumer projectors which use UHP (Mercury) lamps, there can be huge variations from one projector model and from one lamp model to an other since manufacturers don't care much about their output spectrum. But if you want to try out a new projector nobody tested, the DLP filter with a DLP projector has the best chance of turning out right.

LED projectors change a lot year over year since high intensity LEDs are being constantly improved.
The current LED output spectrum doesn't fare well with Omega but there is no way to predict how future LED technology will improve and how manufacturers will implement them : it is perfectly possible to make a LED arrangement that will output a wide spectrum (like what's done for "natural light" lamps), but there is very little incentive for projector manufacturers to implement one.

Laser direct output provides a single wavelength per primary colour : it is fundamentally incompatible with Omega.
Laser to phosphor is different, it does output a spectrum but I am not familiar with phosphor output spectrum so I'd say all bets are off.

There is a way to turn a direct laser single wavelength output into a spectrum but projector manufacturers will probably never implement this technique because it's completely foreign to this usage domain : it requires high power ultra-short burst lasers (think femto-second) and all research in this area is concentrated in reducing the apparition of spectrums to keep a clear single wavelength (for long-distance fibre optics communication).


----------



## motorman5

new name but I decided id see what my old project was up to despite not being at omega anymore. I lost my account access so I made this new account. 
I see the discussion is still going on but a lot was done in the last two years. yes the Omega 3D was originally made for xenon and the a version was made for sony sxrd but that is no the product exactly as sold to home theater users. I worked on refining the filters to work with UHP. some Laser phosphor pro AV units work with my filters but due to that lack of deep blue and violet there is a yellow hue in the left eye.
An LED projector could work very well with Omega 3D if more than 3 colors were used in the LED arrays. I was working with someone on this but all that ended. a Laser system is possible with the cooperation of the light engine maker.
the existing 6P laser 3D systems would not work at all for color balance if it were not for digital color processing, ive seen it first hand. there is no native color balance as in the omega filter system with a good broad source UHP or xenon setup. 

there are few was to make a passive stereo 3D home system any easier than using omega filters and inexpensive UHP/DLP projectors. with the right projectors in a dark room the extinction and clarity and lack of eye strain is hard to match. ive seen some good polarizing systems but the screen cost, hotspotting, light ghosting and the eye strain that comes with that dosnt compare to a good setup of omega 3d filters. 
motorman45


----------



## javanpohl

I seem to be missing something... what is splitting the signal out to the two projectors so that each one is only projecting for one eye?


----------



## Vaan Janne

javanpohl said:


> I seem to be missing something... what is splitting the signal out to the two projectors so that each one is only projecting for one eye?


demultiplexer or your choise. Geobox www.vnstw.com or 2 x 3dxl (optoma) or lumagen lut boxes. and others.


----------



## Vaan Janne

has anyone tried the cheap epsons ? eu 5210 ect. ?


----------



## foxpup

InlineTwin said:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spectrogj*  /t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24108699
> 
> 
> The human factors were considered for theater, not bed theaters.
> 
> Have your children been lying down at the movie theater with you looking through the bottom of the glasses?
> 
> I cannot believe that there is no problems with your polarizer system at such an extreme angles either.
> 
> They already have ghosting, does it get worse?
> 
> Super comfy movie/sleeping glasses would have cost millions of extra dollars for home theater viewing to be perfect.
> 
> Shutter glasses are $100.00 a pair and they probably don't work when you lay down either.
> 
> 
> Sit up a little
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taking a step back: I gave the initial feedback from my family to the community. I was encouraged to install the system and try it out by the community so I did. I gave an update on the impression of the system. And it has gone downhill from there...PM from motorman45 the engineer wants me to be quite and not post negative comments. Also, other community members chiming in telling me my opinion is not valid for all the reasons they can come up with.
> 
> 
> Well, I have been visiting the forum since 2009 and don't feel welcome to post my opinion at all. It seems even modest criticism to provide HELPFUL feedback is not acceptable. The system must be considered perfect! Well it is not.
> 
> 
> I was motivated by the information I found here to purchase the system thinking it was a huge leap from the linear polar setup I had been using but that was not the case. I believe I gave the overall impression in my posts that It is a least close enough that I would be okay to leave it installed, but as I stated before I am not the only user and my family opinions matter to me.
> 
> 
> With all that said stop angsting over my posts; I will withhold further comment (good or bad) and you all enjoy yourselves!
Click to expand...

I've been holding back making a comment in this thread but now is the time for me. There are going to be differences between people regarding 3d glasses and that is unavoidable. Glasses, in general, are intensely personal and so the diversity in perspective (please pardon the pun) abounds. I'm in the long journey of reading ALL the posting in this thread before I buy any hardware and have reached this now two year old posting. 3D design and 3D printing could solve our 3D glasses problems if we are creative enough. You don't need $5000 vacuum injection molds to make a new design on a 3d printer. One should be able to remove the lenses from an existing omega glasses set and place them in another custom made frame. Multiple iterations should be expected, but if you are a "maker" like me, you will be making something anyway, so why not 3D glasses? Well thats my $0.02. Keep on 3Ding!!


----------



## BlackShark

The quote failed, I feel like I missed the core of your conversation. What exactly do you think your perfect 3D glasses should be doing exactly ?


----------



## foxpup

BlackShark said:


> The quote failed, I feel like I mess what the core of your conversation. What exactly do you think your perfect 3D glasses should be doing exactly ?


Its really my own fault for replying to a comment that is years old. I should know better.  (A bit like commenting on the writings of Benjamin Franklin) I finally made it through all the postings in this thread. (I wish I could have seen many of the deleted motorman ones. :-( )

People were complaining about glasses allowing too much room between the eye-ball and the filter, allowing reflections off the surrounding skin and such. I'm particularly interested in knowing the restrictions for throw ratio and its natural counterpart regarding viewing angle. If I've got a 1.5 throw ratio for the projectors on a 10' wide screen (15' away) I can't stretch the room and want to use all of my screen. I also tend to sit 12' feet away from the screen. If the filters in the eye glasses are smallish and the frame holds them too far away I may have too much tunnel effect for me to see the entire screen. Does any one have some stats on this? If this proved to be a problem I would be compelled to use my "super-maker-powers" and design and 3d print new frames that hold the filters closer to the eyes. They would be less universal (only wearable by me) but they might work. Hopefully I wouldn't have to do that. I'm not sure I could get the wife and family to wear what I might end up creating. 

Any knowledge out there about Omega glasses viewing angles? Am I pushing it? I haven't bought anything yet so I can still be very flexible, but am sold on passive 3d and really like the principal behind the Omega system.

Also, people talk about DLP/LCD filter sets and how you should only use DLP Omega filters with DLP projectors and the same with LCD. Does that mean that the glasses are rated for DLP or LCD specifically or are they universal? Supposing you bought a small kit with 5 glasses and later need 5 more. Could you accidentally end up with incompatible glasses if you ordered wrong?

Also, also, I'm a linux head and like using Bino and even SMPlayer media player software so I need to pump out video through a multiheaded graphics card. I've set up three-headed Linux systems before. (currently typing at a 3 headed 4K setup driven with an NVIDIA G-force GTX 960) I'd like to build something like that for the projectors but in 1080p. People seem to think one should go with Quadro cards which are pricey. How much card is appropriate for full 3d 1080p 60hz? I don't want to spend too much or build something lame either.

Also, also, also. Does anyone have any opinions about the ViewSonic PJD836HDL Projector? Its in the front running in my consideration. 3500 lumens, vertical lens shift, lots of digital processing like corner adjustment. I have a high basement ceiling and plan to stack two of them, hopefully for great 3d and even super-bright 2d with the Omega filters slid to the side. (I wonder what size filters I should get.)

Please fling your ideas/opinions/insults my way. I'm all ears. 

Thanks for listening.


----------



## foxpup

A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!" I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player or any of that AV hardware except for 7.1 channels of high power, high S/N ratio class A amplification. Four stereo amps connected to lots of speakers/subwoofers around the room (sweet ONKYO heaven but it sure heats up the room  ) In my book the sound makes the movie as much as the visual and I've already got 7.1D sound. I'm trying to get my video up to 3D. 

Thanks


----------



## Vaan Janne

I gotta share a thought...

I have used my omegas for long time. Couple years..maby more.
I have eeColor boxes for color correction for both projectors.
Dlp and LCD filtters... ( willing to sell my LCD versions if some one
Is interestedPM) 
There has been disgussions about color balance issues ect.

BOTTOM LINE i don't think it actually matters if you have LCD or dlp
Atleast i got much better results in terms of color balance with my Sxrd Mitsubishi hc5 than with benq1110 ... ok BenQ1110 do not provide full Rec but that actually kind of proves my point. The projector says if the color balance is ok'ish or Bad.

I just sprayed my screen with silver and tested my old polarizers ...
And they have their benefits, and im definetly gonna use them for movies now on but omegas i keep for games.

You can get pretty good results with the omegas. The color uniformity is all over the place and there is balance issues but the crosstalk is about zero, even white on 
Black. And glasses are bulky. But Also the none grainines of regular white screen gives smoooth image.
I would recommend Try Sony for example if you have not yet bought projectors.
You wanna remember with dual projector system there is noise from 2 projector so it would be nice to have pretty silent duo


----------



## Vaan Janne

foxpup said:


> A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!" I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player or any of that AV hardware except for 7.1 channels of high power, high S/N ratio class A amplification. Four stereo amps connected to lots of speakers/subwoofers around the room (sweet ONKYO heaven but it sure heats up the room  ) In my book the sound makes the movie as much as the visual and I've already got 7.1D sound. I'm trying to get my video up to 3D.
> 
> Thanks


Trust me you wanna use bd only all mkvs and **** are total crap.
And for the sake of usability buy a desktop bd player.
I use Panasonic dmp-bdt500 great "cheaper" player


----------



## BlackShark

Regarding the throw ratio :
Your 1.5 throw ratio is very similar to my configuration (2.40m wide at 3.5m distance). You need to know that this configuration is not optimal. You're a bit short.

If you put your filters in front of the projector, you'll get colour drifts on the edges of the image (and a very tiny bit of crosstalk) due to the light rays out of the projector going through the filters at too steep angles. You can see it in the pictures I took on the first page.
The amount of colour drift is similar to what I get with my polarized setup with LCD projectors and SPAR filters (crossed polarized primaries), just different colours.
The polarized system has green drift in the center and magenta drift on the edge.
The Omega system has yellow drift in the center and blue drift on the edge.
However if you open your projector and find a place where the light rays are perfectly parallel and put the filter there, you won't get this issue. (I never found the courage to open my projectors, I'm terrible at DIY hacking and I am scared of breaking them)

The glasses do not suffer from this issue because the glass is slightly curved.
Regarding field of view :
I wear prescription glasses under the 3D glasses and hate when my eyelashes touch the glass, so I keep the entire assembly (prescription + 3D glasses) at a normal comfortable distance.
On my system, I'm right at the limit where I can see the entire screen in my field of view, but not anything more. If I turn my head just slightly, I loose the opposite edge of the screen. 
On your system, you're a tiny bit closer to the screen than me, so if you push the glasses as close as possible to your eyes it might be just at the limit (but the omega glasses don't want to stay there, they tend to slip down easily), but your guests wearing prescription glasses will probably be too much.

Regarding LCD vs DLP : it's only about matching the filters to the projector's light spectrum and intensity. There is only one Omega glasses model. (Omega glasses are not compatible with Dolby or Infitec though)

As one of the very early customers, I tried the DLP filters on my LCD projectors and I obtained a very strong light intensity difference between the eyes. I had to max out pretty much every brightness/contrast/colour correction setting to barely obtain matched intensity in both eyes, and colour correction was hell (touch one setting for one primary colour and all the others break).
With the matched LCD filters, the light output was almost perfectly balanced from the get go, I only needed to do minor tweaks and then I could focus on the colour correction.
However, even with the matched LCD filters, there were some colours that were simply no longer reachable and could not be fixed and other people with LCD projectors also reported difficulties obtaining acceptable colour match between the eyes. People with DLP projectors have reported better success rates.


----------



## BlackShark

Vaan Janne said:


> There has been disgussions about color balance issues ect.
> 
> BOTTOM LINE i don't think it actually matters if you have LCD or dlp
> Atleast i got much better results in terms of color balance with my Sxrd Mitsubishi hc5 than with benq1110 ... ok BenQ1110 do not provide full Rec but that actually kind of proves my point. The projector says if the color balance is ok'ish or Bad.
> 
> ...
> 
> You can get pretty good results with the omegas. The color uniformity is all over the place and there is balance issues but the crosstalk is about zero, even white on
> Black. And glasses are bulky. But Also the none grainines of regular white screen gives smoooth image.
> 
> I would recommend Try Sony for example if you have not yet bought projectors.
> You wanna remember with dual projector system there is noise from 2 projector so it would be nice to have pretty silent duo


Your projector Gammut theory makes some sense but does not explain everything. The output spectrum of each primary colour of a 3-chip LCoS (SXRD, D-ILA etc...) should still be sharper than the equivalent single chip DLP and run the risk of a spectum cut at the wrong place. Since the spectums are never published and no website tests them, I believe that it's still a lottery.

Regarding the graininess : I have a special screen without sparkles... well ok I admit it has very poor crosstalk characteristics and I am still searching for a better screen for my polarized setup.
The compatibility with any screen is really the strong point of the Omega system.

The Sony suggestion is a great suggestion. The VW45ES is a killer projector for dual projector 3D. If I were to buy new projectors today, these are the projectors I'd take.
There's just the issue of *cough* price *cough*. (2200€ each)
I think I'll keep running my Epsons as long as I can (2x300€ lamp change beats new projectors easily).

I don't know much about the Viewsonic PJD7836HDL. On paper it looks like great value for money. But no lens shift so I wouldn't buy it (I go through the hassle of dual projection to get full resolution, I want to make sure I keep it all the way to my eyes). An other thing is the product geometry : the top of the projector housing is flat but bumpy. You 'll probably need some work to stack the projectors on top of one another. And if you use a shelf for stacking, make sure the shelf has openings because the air input in on the side.
Apart from that, if you're on a budget, they look decent enough.


----------



## BlackShark

foxpup said:


> A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!"
> 
> 
> I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player


If your friends have a strong negative feelings about 3D, then the Omega glasses won't reassure them : they are bulky and look particularly dorky, and there's no way around it.
Will you friends be polite enough to accept sitting with you when they see the glasses, or will they start running for their lives ?

Since you already have a silverscreen, then you'll have the same dilemma as Van Jaane and myself.
Polarized offers better colour, better glasses, better comfort, more predictability... in short it's better. The big reason why you'd want to use Omega is the bloody silverscreen.
I find the small amount of crosstalk of a high performance silverscreen acceptable, but not the other characteristics (hotspot, strong shimmering effect) which is why I am spending a lot of money trying new materials and I believe I have found some good enough compromises, but I am still searching for the golden gem (the magic silverscreen with high view angles and low shimmering), but so far I haven't found it.
For a while I have been alternating between the polarized and the Omega filters on my system, but I have done the operation less and less frequentily. Nowadays, I hardly use the Omegas anymore.

So ask yourself this question : do I like the picture of my silverscreen or not ?
If yes : don't bother with Omega, it won't solve all your problems
If no : Omega looks like a good opportunity to try something different

Regarding the headaches your friends are having :
Whenever my friends watch a 3D movie on my system, they praise it as the only 3D system that does not give headaches. So I am surprised that your friends are telling you the opposite.

This is because I have spent a huge amount of time and effort on my PC to avoid mis-synchronization issues (which hurt a lot).
That's what the Quadros are : GPU manufacturers only guarantee output sync (frame-lock) on professional cards (because frame-lock tends to be used with genlock : a professional TV/Cinema camera syncrhonization system, so they know they can charge a lot of money for this feature). When using consumer cards, you have to use tricks to get perfect sync and you're only a hair away from breaking sync.
Do you have a reliable way of getting perfect sync ? If you don't, that may be the source of your friends headaches.


----------



## foxpup

Vaan Janne said:


> Trust me you wanna use bd only all mkvs and **** are total crap.
> And for the sake of usability buy a desktop bd player.
> I use Panasonic dmp-bdt500 great "cheaper" player


I hear you Vaan Janne. Thanks for your candor and thoughtfulness. I'll look at the Panasonic dmp-bdt500 and see what it is like. Its kind of wierd having a dozen good 3d blu-rays and no player to go with it, but I have been very computer-centric and have preferred using general purpose products (like computers) over special overpriced boxes that do fancy tricks that quickly become outdated.  If the Panasonic dmp-bdt500 is what you say, then that description would not apply to it.  It would be simple to hook up video wise but a bit of a trick for 7.1 channel sound. I'm using a THX certified 7.1 channel sound card that is pretty good. I suppose I could feed the Blu-Ray audio output into it. Over time the computer-centric way to doing home-video has served me well in getting me the most out of limited $$$. 

Again, thanks for giving me your time and thoughts. It is much appreciated.


----------



## foxpup

BlackShark - I'd really like to thank you for ALL THAT TYPING!  Its a bit like drinking from a firehose.  Thank you. I'll end up reading the whole set of postings multiple times, mulling over the subtleties as I think about my situation. Thanx.



BlackShark said:


> I don't know much about the Viewsonic PJD7836HDL. On paper it looks like great value for money. But no lens shift so I wouldn't buy it (I go through the hassle of dual projection to get full resolution, I want to make sure I keep it all the way to my eyes). An other thing is the product geometry : the top of the projector housing is flat but bumpy. You 'll probably need some work to stack the projectors on top of one another. And if you use a shelf for stacking, make sure the shelf has openings because the air input in on the side.
> Apart from that, if you're on a budget, they look decent enough.


Actually it does have vertical lens shift with a knob/screw on top. I don't think it has horizontal. As for mounting things, I have traditionally used 3/8 inch plyboard but thought I'd go with 1/4 inch aluminum this time to add some thin/cool strength and keep the aluminoty happy. My current projector pair is sort of stacked with one projector one foot closer than the other so it looks more like a tandem install with different amounts of zoom. I thought I'd try that again or truly stack them if I must. If I make the support rigid enough and can work all the adjustments, both physical and electronic, I'm hoping to be able to allign all the pixels within a half pixel precision. 



BlackShark said:


> If your friends have a strong negative feelings about 3D, then the Omega glasses won't reassure them : they are bulky and look particularly dorky, and there's no way around it.
> Will you friends be polite enough to accept sitting with you when they see the glasses, or will they start running for their lives ?


They won't be running for the door, but if they are unhappy, I might wish they could. We're talking about family here, my wife and my four kids.  And if Momma's not happy, nobody's happy, right?  As for looking dorky, I think they are used to that concept, living around me and its not like we're out in public looking dorky, but we do live in a small town. Everybody already knows we're a nerdy family anyway. 



BlackShark said:


> Since you already have a silverscreen, then you'll have the same dilemma as Van Jaane and myself.
> Polarized offers better colour, better glasses, better comfort, more predictability... in short it's better. The big reason why you'd want to use Omega is the bloody silverscreen.
> I find the small amount of crosstalk of a high performance silverscreen acceptable, but not the other characteristics (hotspot, strong shimmering effect) which is why I am spending a lot of money trying new materials and I believe I have found some good enough compromises, but I am still searching for the golden gem (the magic silverscreen with high view angles and low shimmering), but so far I haven't found it.
> For a while I have been alternating between the polarized and the Omega filters on my system, but I have done the operation less and less frequentily. Nowadays, I hardly use the Omegas anymore.


Somehow I imagine you painting your projection screen every month or so with some new concoction, hoping to find the holy grail that you seek. Success to you!! My wife read this and suggested metallic corduroy, a concept that not only should chill one to the bone, it would also have directional artifacts like the "grooves" of a CD. I would think that sparklynes comes from the reflective particles being too big. It seems to me that the best particle size would be just a small multiple bigger than the wavelength of a photon and I would hope would be too small to make things sparkly. I haven't done the math but I bet you have. 



BlackShark said:


> Regarding the headaches your friends are having :
> Whenever my friends watch a 3D movie on my system, they praise it as the only 3D system that does not give headaches. So I am surprised that your friends are telling you the opposite.


My wife stated that the reason why people were complaining of headaches was that we started watching too late in the evening and tired eyes were suffering from being kept OPEN too long, not for being made to watch 3D. Actually that announcement is encouraging for someone who wants to make 3D video work well. I just need to start earlier.  I'm the night-owl of the family. 



BlackShark said:


> This is because I have spent a huge amount of time and effort on my PC to avoid mis-synchronization issues (which hurt a lot).
> That's what the Quadros are : GPU manufacturers only guarantee output sync (frame-lock) on professional cards (because frame-lock tends to be used with genlock : a professional TV/Cinema camera syncrhonization system, so they know they can charge a lot of money for this feature). When using consumer cards, you have to use tricks to get perfect sync and you're only a hair away from breaking sync.
> Do you have a reliable way of getting perfect sync ? If you don't, that may be the source of your friends headaches.


So the situation DOES demand a Quadro for good sync. I was looking at this on Ebay (or something like it)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Nvidia...-DP-PCIe-x16-Graphics-Card-X592H/122249194913

~$150 and used but I could go with a bit more for something new. I've kind of met my limit of pain and suffering from ATI/AMD so I have a bias towards Nvidia. I used to be a Microsoft person over the last five years I've been pushing hard towards Linux and try to use it in as many contexts as possible (where reasonable) so whatever I get will need to be Linux compatible, unless I encounter an immovable obstruction. With the Quadros I read somewhere that Active DVI to hdmi converters were vital and not to use the cheap ones that make the graphics card do the work. Is that true? I'd be tempted to go cheap and then add if compelled by sync problems.

Thanks so much for all your effort.


----------



## BlackShark

For a long time, I couldn't play BluRay 3D movies on the computer because there is no software that support dual projectors for BluRays.
I had to rip every movie to a mkv before I could watch them. It kind of worked, you can get transparent picture quality if you set the bitrate high enough, but it required a lot of work : configure the ripping software properly, set the subtitles, make sure to choose the proper language and associated subs (forced) depending on the language I desired ( I noticed that many BluRays use the forced subtitles for illustrative text rather than burning it in the picture). Let the computer crunch the movie all night long, and then when you try to play it back you get bugs because the stereoscopic subtitle feature of my software crashes with BluRay bitmap subs, it needs them in text format to work properly etc.. etc...

Then I bought a VNS Geobox demultiplexer that can convert the hdmi 1.4 signals to the dual projector dual outputs and it changed the way I play movies.
I bought a small Sony BDP S4500 player, I plugged it to my small Yamaha V675 5.1 Home cinema amp (definitely not high power but sufficient for my usage), and then an hdmi out to the demultiplexer.
Plug and play BluRays, finally !
Also as a bonus, if a friend comes by with a game console, a laptop or anything video related, he can just plug it to the amp and get instant access to the big screen without having to rewire everything.


----------



## BlackShark

foxpup said:


> Somehow I imagine you painting your projection screen every month or so with some new concoction, hoping to find the holy grail that you seek. Success to you!! My wife read this and suggested metallic corduroy, a concept that not only should chill one to the bone, it would also have directional artifacts like the "grooves" of a CD. I would think that sparklynes comes from the reflective particles being too big. It seems to me that the best particle size would be just a small multiple bigger than the wavelength of a photon and I would hope would be too small to make things sparkly. I haven't done the math but I bet you have.
> 
> 
> So the situation DOES demand a Quadro for good sync. I was looking at this on Ebay (or something like it)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Nvidia...-DP-PCIe-x16-Graphics-Card-X592H/122249194913
> ~$150 and used but I could go with a bit more for something new. I've kind of met my limit of pain and suffering from ATI/AMD so I have a bias towards Nvidia. I used to be a Microsoft person over the last five years I've been pushing hard towards Linux and try to use it in as many contexts as possible (where reasonable) so whatever I get will need to be Linux compatible, unless I encounter an immovable obstruction. With the Quadros I read somewhere that Active DVI to hdmi converters were vital and not to use the cheap ones that make the graphics card do the work. Is that true? I'd be tempted to go cheap and then add if compelled by sync problems.


I wish I could just grab the first piece of cloth and just apply some paint on it to get a good screen. But no, I just buy the material from professionals who do that much better than I ever could. And it gets expensive very quick so I can't buy a new screen whenever I please.
The current screen I am using (XtremScreen Daylight 1.1) has a projection surface made of a dozen layers of micron thin films, it's made in by a satellite manufacturer's component sub-contractor. I have absolutely ZERO hope of ever competing with it with DIY paint.
I'll soon test a new material by the same manufacturer which I believe should provide crosstalk on par with silver paint without the drawbacks.

Regarding sync :
A quadro is not mandatory, there are ways to extract perfect sync of consumer cards, but they require a lot of painful trial and error. Basically you need to find a way to make your GPU render the screen buffer as a single surface using the surround gaming multi-monitor functions (not the regular multi-monitor system, these drive the displays independently).
In theory it should also be possible to emulate the same thing if you use a Matrox DualHead2Go.

On the other hand, if you have a quadro, it's as simple as a checkbox.

I have been using AMD Radeons for years, mainly because I needed the Eyefinity feature : it can be enabled with only 2 screen, whereas Nvidia's "surround" gaming mode requires 3 screens (according to the Nvidia website, I haven't tried to force it with 2 screens).
I only very recently switched to Nvidia because I wanted to use the NVidia 3d Vision software for games, and I could only do it because I bought the Geobox demultiplexer. I would not have tried the switch to Nvidia without it.

I have no idea about Linux support. I have always been using Windows for 3D, mainly because I play lots of games.


----------



## Vaan Janne

I currently have found out a great paint mix for polarized image. i think it´s about as good as any commersial screen that´s made with 1 layer. 
Those multilayered screen materials are a whole different matter. The one i have now has no sparkles, low hotspot ( don´t know how my my curved frame affects that)
great extinction. Only minor down side is the small shimmery pattern that´s visible on pannings at a one colored surfaces. 
ofcourse i would like to have a screen that has zero flaws but it´s another thing how much im willing to pay, as the great multilayer screens Blackshark is talking about are about 3000 euros (my size 130") with shipping and my current screen costed under 200 (after several tests and search i was manage to cook up an awsome mix) , and like i said it´s as good as or better than any of my current samples in terms of crosstalk (and i have many) and it has no sparkles and almoust every
sample i have has atleast low amounts of sparkles and every sample has that "shimmering". So i don´t know am i ready to pay 15 times for "small" improvement.... maby, but i would like to see a sample !

I was gonna use my omegas for games, but i shurely don´t know now. I love the fact they have zero ghosting but now as i have a "shimmery" silver screen, i can´t no longer enjoy the smoothness of 
omega picture as there is the same shimmering as with polarizers, due to the silver screen. And the polarizers give me lot´s more light and the crosstalk is only barely seen with black on white even on the darker games.

The inside fitting might do some improvement..but i don´t know do i wanna risk my projectors as i totally love them and there is not many left.
I bet one would strougle to find 2 x HC5´s or 9000 from anywhere now days.


----------



## foxpup

Vaan Janne said:


> I currently have found out a great paint mix for polarized image. i think it´s about as good as any commersial screen that´s made with 1 layer.


 I'm very glad for you that you found a great polarization compatible paint.  Any chance you might let the rest of us know what it is and how much it cost? 

Yes, this is a bit off subject I know. That's why I'm keeping this brief. Still, I am comparing active vs polarized vs omega in an effort to make the "best" decision. ("best" being a very subjective term in this case.)


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## Vaan Janne

No i can't as its my own mix.
Maby ill sell it.
I have some left to make samples as soon as i have time.
Its about 100€/L without profit. 
I used 2L total for my 3x1.7m screen

With eye there is even less hotspot.
No Sparkle
High extinction / low crosstalk
Some noise/shimmering


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## Vaan Janne

Blackshark did you have some crosstalk test pattern to "measure" the amount off ?


----------



## BlackShark

Yes, the visual crosstalk pattern is in this thread : http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ctical-discussion-thread-79.html#post35939578

Indeed, the hotspot is visually nowhere to be found, but this is thanks to the screen curvature. (hiding hotspots from high gain screens is the whole point of curving screens)
However, if you look at the photo, you can clearly see a striking brightness difference between the middle of the picture and the top&bottom edges.

I received my new screen from XtremScreen, I'll set it up and do a full report as soon as I can.


----------



## Vaan Janne

"However, if you look at the photo, you can clearly see a striking brightness difference between the middle of the picture and the top&bottom edges."

The camera adds hotspot there is not even half of the amount to be seen with naked eye. 
The grainines is my only conplaint.
Im eagerly waitin for your report on the
Daylight 1.1 special 3D edition.. is what they call it ?


----------



## BlackShark

The Daylight 1.1 "special edition for polarised 3D" (my name, not theirs) was actually a research material from when they developed the Daylight 1.1 référence screen material.
It is not a full production material and they only have a limited quantity of it.
Unfortunately, the research material could not be transformed in a shippable screen. The material is too fragile and cannot handle rolling for transport.
It has to be attached to a full solid frame (a plank) in order not to fall apart, the solid frame works but is such a nightmare for transport when doing a full sized screen that they abandoned the idea. (and I agree 100%)
XtremScreen cannot afford to put a completely new formula into production specifically for the 3D poalrized market (too much of a niche market). They need to be able to sell the material for both 2D and 3D and not compromise the 2D aspect since this market represent 99.9% of their sales.

The new material I have is Daylight 2.0 (with 2.0 gain). I've tested a sample for polarized light (it is on par with my previous Harkness 240 silverscreen) and I have seen the screen in 2D at their showroom and it looked like it was in the sweet spot between gain, hotspot and sparklies/shimmer.
I just finished setting up the screen, I'll try it this evening.


----------



## Vaan Janne

BlackShark said:


> The Daylight 1.1 "special edition for polarised 3D" (my name, not theirs) was actually a research material from when they developed the Daylight 1.1 référence screen material.
> It is not a full production material and they only have a limited quantity of it.
> Unfortunately, the research material could not be transformed in a shippable screen. The material is too fragile and cannot handle rolling for transport.
> It has to be attached to a full solid frame (a plank) in order not to fall apart, the solid frame works but is such a nightmare for transport when doing a full sized screen that they abandoned the idea. (and I agree 100%)
> XtremScreen cannot afford to put a completely new formula into production specifically for the 3D poalrized market (too much of a niche market). They need to be able to sell the material for both 2D and 3D and not compromise the 2D aspect since this market represent 99.9% of their sales.
> 
> The new material I have is Daylight 2.0 (with 2.0 gain). I've tested a sample for polarized light (it is on par with my previous Harkness 240 silverscreen) and I have seen the screen in 2D at their showroom and it looked like it was in the sweet spot between gain, hotspot and sparklies/shimmer.
> I just finished setting up the screen, I'll try it this evening.


Any comment yet on the new screen ?


----------



## foxpup

I'm still planning out a modest budget Omega 3d setup. I have to ask, just how valuable is lens shift in selecting a projector. Adding that restriction can add 50% to what you end up spending in a projector. Is it worth the investment? I can see how it would be useful in principal but what about the practical? I've done 3d before and it seems that the human visual system is very good at converging images and doesn't seem to care much if the images are half a degree out of convergence. Its the kind of thing we are used to dealing with when keeping our eyeballs aligned in the same direction. Has anyone had some real experiences comparing lens shifting to not? If I had a lens shifting pair of projectors, I could center both internally and align as well as possible and compare the results with using the lens shifting. What about horizontal mounting with enough horizontal lens shifting? Any success stories out there? It would make for more convenient access to the projectors and a more natural look on the ceiling. What experiences have people had with this? Thanks.


----------



## BlackShark

Vaan Janne said:


> Any comment yet on the new screen ?


I have not written a full review yet, but so far I love it.
The Xtrem Screen Daylight 2.0 has great picture quality, in my living room, at 1.5 throw ratio / 1.5 view ratio (projector on a tall shelf just behind the couch), invisible hotspot in the centre of my couch (best seat in the living room), the hotspot becomes visible from the side seats (outside of the frame footprint) but significantly less annoying than my previous silverscreen.

Polarisation retention is excellent (finally, I am getting transparency again), only scenes with extreme contrast show crosstalk (bright stuff on absolute black background).
I get the exact same high extinction as on the small sample I tested. On my visual crosstalk test pattern, pure white bleeds at the level of 10~15% grey on the Daylight 2.0 : the same as my Harkness Spectral (which had a 130:1 peak extinction ratio).
It's a dramatic improvement over the Daylight 1.1 (25% grey) the but not as good as the optimal but unshippable prototype (which was


----------



## foxpup

BlackShark said:


> Trapeze has a very high influence on 3D and must be corrected for 3D to look good !
> 
> The most efficient correction is vertical trapeze correction (it's due to the geometry of 99.9% of projectors, they're built wider than tall, so you have less correction to do if you stack them vertically)
> Also, most projectors only provide vertical trapeze correction, only a few provide both horizontal and vertical trapeze correction.
> 
> The most important issues with using trapeze correction are :
> -image quality (trapeze require scaling, it's a minor annoyance on most content, only an issue if you're doing computer games with tiny text or if you want every single pixel on the matrix intact, like me)
> -setup complexity (this is the biggest one for dual-pjs : position of the projectors in the room, tilt, zoom and the amount of correction of both projectors are all interdependent, change one single parameter and all the others change, you'll spend a lot more time setting your projectors up)
> 
> At the moment, I haven't seen any projector manufacturer providing a lens shift on a cheap entry level projector like Epson used to do a few years ago.
> I am very glad I bought my projectors 5 years ago, just before the 3D boom because projector manufacturers had very few extra gadgets to differentiate themselves and had to use the hardware to differentiate themselves from the competition. I had the choice between 1000€, 1200€, 1500€ and 1800€ projectors within the same line, all equipped with the exact same ultra-wide lens shift system with progressively better picture quality as the price went up. I had a golden opportunity to fine tune the quality/price ratio.
> 
> Nowadays, lens shifts tend to be only added on the mid to high-range. Manufacturers use other features to differentiate between sub 1000€ projectors and the start of lens shifts (3D, image processing, networking, wireless hdmi, etc...)
> But since the price is much higher, if you do choose a projector with lens shift, you'll be aiming for projectors with significantly higher base picture quality (the price isn't only about the gadgets and the lens shift, manufacturers must also improve picture quality to justify the ridiculously higher prices).
> 
> If you are on a budget, you probably don't have a choice and should do without.


Thanx BlackShark for your info.

If I had to buy today I'd probably buy two of these.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ViewSonic-LightStream_PJD7836HDL.htm

Street price new of $800 each

They are are bright enough for my application (3500 lumens) and according to the manual have about 11 inches of vertical shifting for a 150 inch screen. (mine is 120 inches horizontal) They also have the ability to do all those undesirable digital image tweaks like corner adjustment in case I end up having to do desperate things. For Omega-3D I may have to scale down the image size a bit so I can see the entire image in the glasses when sitting 10ft away but thats OK with me.

Does this model look promising?

Thanx in advance.


----------



## BlackShark

It looks like a decent compromise. I had not noticed the small vertical lens shift. This will definitely help.
I don't think there is any competition for 3500 lumen at this price range, is it ?

One thing you need to remember : Light passing through the filters at an angle = bad. You'll want the projectors to be set up as far back as possible and use the optical zoom to it's fullest (if possible the projectors should be behind your seating position).
This means the projectors will have to be positioned high up close to the ceiling and upside down.
The top part of the projector isn't perfectly flat, so either you have to build a custom shelf to screw the projectors upside down on the ceiling, or you'll have to somehow find a way to level the projectors on a regular shelf.


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## foxpup

Thanks BlackShark for checking out the Viewsonic. Yes, its very hard to find something that bright for


----------



## Vaan Janne

I think there is Something wrong with your setup if you can't watch long perioids At one seating....maby it's active ;D
I have no problems gaming hours and hours. And usually do my gaming At night. Even with omegas that have that small color balance difference between you don't get eye fatigue. Maby some nose fatigue as the glasses Are "heavy" compared to polarizers








With polarizers i can game as long as i want also with omegas if we Forget the nose problem. One other bonus with passive is the fact you always have backup projector and can Atleast Enjoy 2D when one projector fails. Or active 3D with capable projector. The geobox 501'a warp is pretty good if you buy LCD projectors with out lens shift and need some geometrical correction, I think geobox softens image less than prohjectors own keystone if it's not dlp .
I use geobox all the time for warped screen. And the difference in sharpness is so small I don't miss it.


----------



## foxpup

Vaan Janne said:


> Maby some nose fatigue as the glasses Are "heavy" compared to polarizers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With polarizers i can game as long as i want also with omegas if we Forget the nose problem.


I've been wearing regular prescription glasses for years now and have been inclined to mod them for one purpose or another. As for the heaviness on the nose, I wonder if there isn't a counterweight solution that could be applied behind the ears/head. 3d glasses already send our appearance into geeky-ville why not go all out and be comfortable. Just for the fun of it, I pressed down on the ends of my glasses stems and it releases all weight of the lenses on the front. It sure seems like counterweights could work for 3d glasses since our ears seem to happily take the extra weight. ( a whole lot better than a pair of balloons attached at the hinges, and probably better than attaching the frames to the brim of a hat.  )


----------



## drobz

Hi everyone, I've been reading couple of 3D-related mail threads on this forum (very helpful!), but now I've come to the point when I cannot find the info I need by myself...so pls help 

I'm working on choosing optimal components for somewhat exotic project of 3D screen in front of which viewer(s) should be able to move. So, no/minimal crosstalk is allowed when moving towards/out of edges of the screen and also no crosstalk when (reasonably) tilting your head. Brightness & color correctnes are not critically important.


After quite some research, I've come to the conclusion that dual-projector setup with Omega filters should give the best results (better then active or "classic" passive)



I've chosen these projectors: Optoma-HD29 Darbee (sorry, not able to post links)


Since this project is proof-of-concept, I'm on a pretty tight budget so unfortunately vertical lens shift projectors are too expensive (


----------



## philiwahnilli

drobz said:


> Hi everyone, I've been reading couple of 3D-related mail threads on this forum (very helpful!), but now I've come to the point when I cannot find the info I need by myself...so pls help
> 
> I'm working on choosing optimal components for somewhat exotic project of 3D screen in front of which viewer(s) should be able to move. So, no/minimal crosstalk is allowed when moving towards/out of edges of the screen and also no crosstalk when (reasonably) tilting your head. Brightness & color correctnes are not critically important.
> 
> 
> After quite some research, I've come to the conclusion that dual-projector setup with Omega filters should give the best results (better then active or "classic" passive)
> 
> 
> 
> I've chosen these projectors: Optoma-HD29 Darbee (sorry, not able to post links)
> 
> 
> Since this project is proof-of-concept, I'm on a pretty tight budget so unfortunately vertical lens shift projectors are too expensive (


----------



## BlackShark

I do not see any major roadblocks for such a system to work.
I do however have some minor remarks :

A single projector DLP+ LCD shutter glasses system would be a much cheaper alternative for proof-of-concept / research purposes, unless you forgot to mention some particular technical requirements (resolution/refresh rates, or you figured that your application specifically requires simultaneous display in both eyes).

Since your viewers are expected to be moving in the room, I assume the room will have some amount of ambient light, just enough to make sure the viewers are able to see where they are going.
I would like to attract your attention on the possible ambient light problems :
- the filters are reflective. Any uncontained ambient light that reaches the viewer's face will reflect in the filters and the viewers will see the reflection of their own eyes.
Viewers will have to wear the glasses very close to their face. In my experience with ambient light, the integrated protections of the omega glasses are only sufficient for very low amounts of ambient light. If you add any type of extra light in the room, the viewers will require extra light protection (wearing a cap improves the situation significantly but is an extra accessory to deal with)
- the light spectrum of the light bulbs needs to be checked. An imbalanced spectrum will produce severe colour disparities between the viewers' eyes and make your system unusable. CCFL bulbs are particularly problematic.
LEDs vary a lot from model to model. Try to aim for wider spectrum bulbs (usually labelled as "high colour rendering index", "high light quality" or "natural light") you may get better results. But you should expect to do at least some trial and error for your light bulbs.


----------



## drobz

philiwahnilli said:


> Hi drobz,
> 
> great that there are still people out there who are into 3D, since it seems to fade away...
> I have a Omega Optical 3D setup with two Benq W1070 projectors (which has lens shift) and a GeoBox, and the system delivers a brilliant image. The contrast ratio of the Filters is about 1000:1 so you should not see any crosstalk at all, and i would highly recommend you this setup. There is no sensitivity to viewing angle or head tilt or position at all.
> 
> I never tried rear projection but in general there should be no issues (beside the commonly known rear projection issues like hotspot etc.). I would prefer front projection from the ceiling with a screen gain of 1.2, (1.5 maximum), but in your case i would try to get a rear projection screen with less hot spot as possible (depending on your budget).
> 
> There are some things you have to consider:
> * The filters: These are interference filters so they are sensitive to transmission angle of light, in other words, you should use a throw as far as possible (minimum zoom), otherwise you will get color shifts and cross talk at the edges. Using the Benq w 1070 you must use minimum zoom). When you still want to use short throw, you must place the filters inside the projectors at a position where the light path is as parallel as possible. I put it behind the lens that follows the color rotation wheel. But this part is tricky, as there is very little space. And don't worry, the filters can handle high temperature, they originally have been designed for that purpose-
> 
> * The filter glasses transmit ~25% if the light, the rest is reflected, so try to make the room as dark as possible.
> 
> * Projector alignment is tricky, i used the 300$ Geobox with no 4 point perspective correction, and it took me 3 hours until I had only 1-2 pixels misalignment left, which is good enough at Full HD in my opinion.
> 
> * there may be some need for color correction, depending on the light spectrum of your projector. But most projectors have some kind of color adjustment menu. I projected a test image (windows color tiles) and played a bit with the sliders, but that's only for perfection.
> 
> Good luck with your project...
> Best
> Phil


Hi Phil, 

sorry for the late feedback, I was out of country for 2 weeks...

Thank you very much on the info, the interesting part to me is the usage of Geobox for alignment. If I got it correctly, these boxes take the video signal in, warp the geometry and then push it out to a projector(s). But isn't projector's (vertical) lens shift "good enough" to be used for aligning image from 2 projectors? What concerns me is - the Geobox warps the signal "digitally" BEFORE the projector; it cannot alter the physical size/direction/warp of the image being projected from the projector, therefore it seems like the native pixel-on-pixel relationship definitely gets lost with the usage of such boxes, right? Are the projector controls too coarse to achieve pixel-on-pixel alignment? Will such a box be necessary if there's no physical lens shift? BTW; which box are you using, or actually which one should I be looking at, considering that the screen will be flat (not curved)?

Drobz


----------



## drobz

BlackShark said:


> I do not see any major roadblocks for such a system to work.
> I do however have some minor remarks :
> 
> A single projector DLP+ LCD shutter glasses system would be a much cheaper alternative for proof-of-concept / research purposes, unless you forgot to mention some particular technical requirements (resolution/refresh rates, or you figured that your application specifically requires simultaneous display in both eyes).
> 
> Since your viewers are expected to be moving in the room, I assume the room will have some amount of ambient light, just enough to make sure the viewers are able to see where they are going.
> I would like to attract your attention on the possible ambient light problems :
> - the filters are reflective. Any uncontained ambient light that reaches the viewer's face will reflect in the filters and the viewers will see the reflection of their own eyes.
> Viewers will have to wear the glasses very close to their face. In my experience with ambient light, the integrated protections of the omega glasses are only sufficient for very low amounts of ambient light. If you add any type of extra light in the room, the viewers will require extra light protection (wearing a cap improves the situation significantly but is an extra accessory to deal with)
> - the light spectrum of the light bulbs needs to be checked. An imbalanced spectrum will produce severe colour disparities between the viewers' eyes and make your system unusable. CCFL bulbs are particularly problematic.
> LEDs vary a lot from model to model. Try to aim for wider spectrum bulbs (usually labelled as "high colour rendering index", "high light quality" or "natural light") you may get better results. But you should expect to do at least some trial and error for your light bulbs.


Yes, well noticed - single DLP + active shutter glasses would be a cheaper alternative for our PoC, but what concerns me is that I couldn't find relevant data about cross-talk levels in an "viewer-moving-around" scenario with single-DLP+active glasses setup. The viewer will be able to move beyond the left-right edges of the screen, and also quite close to the screen (0,5m). So the cross-talk is a major concern, and it seemed to me that Omega filters should handle it much better when the user is moving around - but that's just my interpretation of some inconclusive forum threads :-/

The info on the ambient light is very useful. I was wondering why the Omega glasses are so bulky with lots of plastic encasing the filters, so obviously blocking ambient light is the reason behind it. So I guess creating our own "slim-frame" glasses with Omega filters is out of the question :-/

Also very useful tips on the light bulbs, thanks!


----------



## drobz

philiwahnilli said:


> Hi drobz,
> 
> great that there are still people out there who are into 3D, since it seems to fade away...
> I have a Omega Optical 3D setup with two Benq W1070 projectors (which has lens shift) and a GeoBox, and the system delivers a brilliant image. The contrast ratio of the Filters is about 1000:1 so you should not see any crosstalk at all, and i would highly recommend you this setup. There is no sensitivity to viewing angle or head tilt or position at all.
> 
> I never tried rear projection but in general there should be no issues (beside the commonly known rear projection issues like hotspot etc.). I would prefer front projection from the ceiling with a screen gain of 1.2, (1.5 maximum), but in your case i would try to get a rear projection screen with less hot spot as possible (depending on your budget).
> 
> There are some things you have to consider:
> * The filters: These are interference filters so they are sensitive to transmission angle of light, in other words, you should use a throw as far as possible (minimum zoom), otherwise you will get color shifts and cross talk at the edges. Using the Benq w 1070 you must use minimum zoom). When you still want to use short throw, you must place the filters inside the projectors at a position where the light path is as parallel as possible. I put it behind the lens that follows the color rotation wheel. But this part is tricky, as there is very little space. And don't worry, the filters can handle high temperature, they originally have been designed for that purpose-
> 
> * The filter glasses transmit ~25% if the light, the rest is reflected, so try to make the room as dark as possible.
> 
> * Projector alignment is tricky, i used the 300$ Geobox with no 4 point perspective correction, and it took me 3 hours until I had only 1-2 pixels misalignment left, which is good enough at Full HD in my opinion.
> 
> * there may be some need for color correction, depending on the light spectrum of your projector. But most projectors have some kind of color adjustment menu. I projected a test image (windows color tiles) and played a bit with the sliders, but that's only for perfection.
> 
> Good luck with your project...
> Best
> Phil


Hi Phil,

thank you for the feedback, it's very useful, and also sorry for the late reply, I was out of country for 2 weeks...

Could you please elaborate some more the usage of Geobox for video processing? It's hard for me to understand the issues that arise when trying to align images from 2 projectors. Is the usage of video-processing box necessary or does it only make the alignment process easier? What if the projectors don't have (vertical) lens shift, is then such a box a necessity? And even if they do have lens shift, are the on-board lens shift and keystone corrections too coarse to align images? Or are these video processing boxes used only for curved screen setups (we will be using flat screen)?

Drobz


----------



## BlackShark

drobz said:


> Could you please elaborate some more the usage of Geobox for video processing? It's hard for me to understand the issues that arise when trying to align images from 2 projectors. Is the usage of video-processing box necessary or does it only make the alignment process easier? What if the projectors don't have (vertical) lens shift, is then such a box a necessity? And even if they do have lens shift, are the on-board lens shift and keystone corrections too coarse to align images? Or are these video processing boxes used only for curved screen setups (we will be using flat screen)?


You do not need lens shift, but lens shift makes it easier and allows you to keep the full resolution. (keystone correction does reduce resolution).

Lining up 2 projectors for acceptable 3D is easy. You can do it in 5~10 minutes. But the misalignment will be obvious as soon as you take the glasses off.
Lining up 2 projectors for great 3D is difficult. It takes about 1~2 hours. The misaligment will look like a small amount of blur if you take the glasses off, you'll need to get up close to the screen to understand there is a misalignment.
Lining up 2 projectors to pixel perfection is INSANELY HARD ! Especially with the very coarse controls of consumer projectors. (I cannot achieve it with my current projectors)

This is where processing come to the rescue. You can do an approximate alignment with the coarse projector controls, and fine tune with the digital processing.
Yes, it is software correction, yes it lowers the amount total usable pixels. But with high quality scaling devices, it's fine.
The basic Geobox 300 series does not have warp correction.
The advanced Geobox 500 series has the feature. It's costs double the price of the basic one.
I have the Geobox 501 with warp, but I do not use it (I have this box because I wanted to ensure compatibility with both AMD and Nvidia graphics cards, and wanted to have both DVI-Dual-Link and DisplayPort input capability)



drobz said:


> Yes, well noticed - single DLP + active shutter glasses would be a cheaper alternative for our PoC, but what concerns me is that I couldn't find relevant data about cross-talk levels in an "viewer-moving-around" scenario with single-DLP+active glasses setup. The viewer will be able to move beyond the left-right edges of the screen, and also quite close to the screen (0,5m). So the cross-talk is a major concern, and it seemed to me that Omega filters should handle it much better when the user is moving around - but that's just my interpretation of some inconclusive forum threads :-/


DLP + active shutter glasses has very similar crosstalk characteristics to Omega.
You have almost zero crosstalk regardless of your position in the room, but it does have some crosstalk if you looks through the glasses sideways (near the edges of the lenses).

There is a technical issue you need to be careful about if you use shutter glasses, especially since your viewers will be moving around the room.
Shutter glasses can synchronize with the projectors according to 2 methods :
- light (Infrared or visible light)
- radio waves (RF or Bluetooth)
If using the light transmission system, the glasses will loose signal when your viewers turn their heads away from the screen or if an object passes in front of the viewer and blocks the view from the glasses receiver to the screen. This will lead to uncomfortable desynchronizations and waiting a fraction of a second to resynchronize when turning their heads again towards the screen.
Radio wave transmission is much better since it goes around or through furniture and people. The glasses connection will be maintained even if viewers turn their heads away from the screen. I recommend you make sure you have radio wave transmission synchronisation of the glasses.

When you looks for a projector, double check if it has either built-in RF transmitter, and which format it uses. Some use Bluetooth, some use open RF protocols, some use proprietary RF protocols.
Some projectors are not equipped with a transmitter but have a standardized VESA 3D-sync output, onto which you can attach a standardized 3D sync transmitter. (in which case you can choose your own equipment)
The range of the radio transmitter may be a technical requirement you'd want to check, depending on the size of the room you plan to use and how far your viewers will be from the projector/transmitter.

If you use Omega, then they'll just work throughout the room.


----------



## RLBURNSIDE

BlackShark said:


> Trapeze has a very high influence on 3D and must be corrected for 3D to look good !
> 
> The most efficient correction is vertical trapeze correction (it's due to the geometry of 99.9% of projectors, they're built wider than tall, so you have less correction to do if you stack them vertically)
> Also, most projectors only provide vertical trapeze correction, only a few provide both horizontal and vertical trapeze correction.
> 
> The most important issues with using trapeze correction are :
> -image quality (trapeze require scaling, it's a minor annoyance on most content, only an issue if you're doing computer games with tiny text or if you want every single pixel on the matrix intact, like me)
> -setup complexity (this is the biggest one for dual-pjs : position of the projectors in the room, tilt, zoom and the amount of correction of both projectors are all interdependent, change one single parameter and all the others change, you'll spend a lot more time setting your projectors up)
> 
> At the moment, I haven't seen any projector manufacturer providing a lens shift on a cheap entry level projector like Epson used to do a few years ago.


I wouldn't even think of going passive dual projection without lens shifting projectors. All other geometry processing set to off. You can buy many projectors with lens shift from the 500 dollar w1070 to midrange PJs, and of course most high end ones too. It's just important to make sure before you buy, but they're available.


----------



## drobz

BlackShark said:


> You do not need lens shift, but lens shift makes it easier and allows you to keep the full resolution. (keystone correction does reduce resolution).
> 
> Lining up 2 projectors for acceptable 3D is easy. You can do it in 5~10 minutes. But the misalignment will be obvious as soon as you take the glasses off.
> Lining up 2 projectors for great 3D is difficult. It takes about 1~2 hours. The misaligment will look like a small amount of blur if you take the glasses off, you'll need to get up close to the screen to understand there is a misalignment.
> Lining up 2 projectors to pixel perfection is INSANELY HARD ! Especially with the very coarse controls of consumer projectors. (I cannot achieve it with my current projectors)
> 
> This is where processing come to the rescue. You can do an approximate alignment with the coarse projector controls, and fine tune with the digital processing.
> Yes, it is software correction, yes it lowers the amount total usable pixels. But with high quality scaling devices, it's fine.
> The basic Geobox 300 series does not have warp correction.
> The advanced Geobox 500 series has the feature. It's costs double the price of the basic one.
> I have the Geobox 501 with warp, but I do not use it (I have this box because I wanted to ensure compatibility with both AMD and Nvidia graphics cards, and wanted to have both DVI-Dual-Link and DisplayPort input capability)


Very helpful, thanks. If we decide to go with dual-projector setup, we'll include a Geobox 500 series box.



BlackShark said:


> DLP + active shutter glasses has very similar crosstalk characteristics to Omega.
> You have almost zero crosstalk regardless of your position in the room, but it does have some crosstalk if you looks through the glasses sideways (near the edges of the lenses).
> 
> There is a technical issue you need to be careful about if you use shutter glasses, especially since your viewers will be moving around the room.
> Shutter glasses can synchronize with the projectors according to 2 methods :
> - light (Infrared or visible light)
> - radio waves (RF or Bluetooth)
> If using the light transmission system, the glasses will loose signal when your viewers turn their heads away from the screen or if an object passes in front of the viewer and blocks the view from the glasses receiver to the screen. This will lead to uncomfortable desynchronizations and waiting a fraction of a second to resynchronize when turning their heads again towards the screen.
> Radio wave transmission is much better since it goes around or through furniture and people. The glasses connection will be maintained even if viewers turn their heads away from the screen. I recommend you make sure you have radio wave transmission synchronisation of the glasses.
> 
> When you looks for a projector, double check if it has either built-in RF transmitter, and which format it uses. Some use Bluetooth, some use open RF protocols, some use proprietary RF protocols.
> Some projectors are not equipped with a transmitter but have a standardized VESA 3D-sync output, onto which you can attach a standardized 3D sync transmitter. (in which case you can choose your own equipment)
> The range of the radio transmitter may be a technical requirement you'd want to check, depending on the size of the room you plan to use and how far your viewers will be from the projector/transmitter.
> 
> If you use Omega, then they'll just work throughout the room.


Hmmm, this info makes me re-think the basic setup for our proof-of-concept. If the cross-talk levels with active 3D glasses are very similar to Omega passive glasses, than it makes more sense for us to use single DLP projector with active glasses. It would allow for us to use short-throw projector, which would be quite useful (less required space behind the screen). More importantly, Omega glasses are very bulky because they require blocking as much ambient light as possible to reach user's eyes, which is not the case with active glasses (OK, active glasses are heavier). It would allow us to have higher level of ambient light.

Also, thank you regarding feedback on radio vs light sync for glasses, very useful info. Radio seems like a much better option.


----------



## drobz

Hi guys,

can anyone help me with some more experience-based info regarding comparison of left-right eye crosstalk levels on (1) active 3D on a LED TV vs. (2) active 3D on a DLP projector vs (3) passive 3D with Omega filters?

From the previous post (from blackshark), it seems that (2) and (3) have very similar crosstalk levels.

During last week, we had a chance to test the active 3D cross-talk on the new LED TV (Panasonic EX780) in our user-moving-around-tilting-head scenario, and, while it is better than LG's passive 3D, it has some drawbacks:
- there is some persistant crosstalk, even in sweetspot, not much (some 3-5%)
- when moving ouside of left-right screen boundaries, crosstalk does increase, not drastically, but from some 3-5% it reaches 5-10% (very approx.).
- when tilting head, at near 90 deg., LED panel gets completely blacked out (on passive 3D TV, it just gets violet hue, but it stays visible)

drobz


----------



## BlackShark

Omega has the same ultra-low crosstalk regardless of where you sit/stand in the room. The only thing that affects crosstalk is whether you are looking straight at the screen (no crosstalk visible) or turning your head away from the screen and looking at it through the corner of the lenses (small amount of crosstalk).
You can tilt your head as much as you want, the image remains the same (you loose the 3D effect though... it's geometry).

In the first years of modern 3D, Sony did something different with it's LCD TVs and shutter glasses.
When you tilted your head, brightness remained but you'd get crosstalk. I do not know if they kept this technique in the later years.


----------



## Raul GS

Anyone know where Omega filters for DLPs with glasses can be purchase?

Thanks


----------



## relaxman

lens shift is not needed for perfect alignment, when you watch only 21:9 films


----------



## Morgus1

Raul GS said:


> Anyone know where Omega filters for DLPs with glasses can be purchase?
> 
> Thanks


I haven't finished working it out, but it appears that if you make a larger order, Omega Filters, the OEM, will still fill them.... I'm this close to getting a couple of sets of filters and 100 glasses..... waiting on a price...


----------



## Raul GS

Thanks for the update/reply.


----------



## Morgus1

and it turns out Ron at studio3d.com sells them... he made me a deal on large filters and 100 glasses that was about the same as from the company... plus it is good to support small business efforts... and I see small filters and pack of 5 glasses on Ebay from a couple of dealers... So they are actively available and in production


----------



## Raul GS

Thanks. I could not find the ebay vendors. What search parameters are you using?


----------



## Morgus1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-by-Omeg...hash=item488f613285:m:mVWYV6IjbNe6O5nn1wTg-9g

Omega Optical 3D search does it... Omega alone gets a bunch of fish oil


----------



## Raul GS

Thanks. I tried Omega 3D and fish was popular, didn't think of optical.


----------



## Vaan Janne

I use warp all the time with my G501. There is really low amount of detail lost when compared to staright image from projector without any warping.
If you go with polarizers, i would suggest curved screen for lover hotspot with high gain screen.
I use a custom paint. I just havent had the time to make another batch. I was gonna send blackshark a test piece to get his input on it but man
i have been too busy. 
By the way blackShark. i would courage everybody with polarizers to try out few pairs of glasses from awater3D germany. 
I have not yet find another pair with as low crosstalk as with these. I even order some HQ linear glasses that actually feel and look like much better quality,
still there is a small difference to the original theme park style glasses i got from awater with my filtters. I even had some same looking themepark glasses on 
my order with the HQ glasses but they are the same level in crosstalk as the HQ ones. So it seems i always return to my old trusty awater3D themepark glasses.
I bet they also are from china but man i don´t get why they produce so low crosstalk. 
They look like these.
http://www.labucketbrigade.org/how-are-polarized-glasses-made.html
The ones i got new that were not as good are like these 
http://cn.hony3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/linear-polairzed-3d-glasses-1.jpg


----------



## relaxman

I also have very good glasses from Hony3D and polarizers in front of my projectors, but the big factor regard ghosting is still the screen material. 100% perfect is not possible.
I use Harkness Spectral and Silverfabric3D which are fine, i only see ghosting at very high contrast scenes with big parallax. I ordered screen samples from china (ebay), these are cheap, but produce much worse ghosting (almost unusable!) than this two what i use.


----------



## Vaan Janne

relaxman said:


> I also have very good glasses from Hony3D and polarizers in front of my projectors, but the big factor regard ghosting is still the screen material. 100% perfect is not possible.
> I use Harkness Spectral and Silverfabric3D which are fine, i only see ghosting at very high contrast scenes with big parallax. I ordered screen samples from china (ebay), these are cheap, but produce much worse ghosting (almost unusable!) than this two what i use.



my point was though i order a buch of different HQ glasses from hony3D there is still no glasses that beat the crosstalk level of my first ever ordered glasses from awater3D.
thiugh they are propably also china produced. There is a difference in the crosstalk level. It´s not huge but i still keep going back to my fist ever pair.

I did my fair share of comparing materials a while back. biggest differnece is the price. I did not find big differences in crosstalk levels with any of the samples.
my favorite was the stewart 5D but is´s a huge cost. and the one prototype was interesting that blackshark talked about. but that´s also 3k+ atleast to get to finland.

Im using my own mix with curved screen. It has low shimmering, low hotspot (atleast on a curved screen) and low crosstalk. 
i was planning to sell my mix but i have not gotten to it. Though it´s not that consumer friendly as it has high emissions during curing and i don´t think you could 
apply it with a roller. 
If i get around to it i´ll buy some more materials and make a batch and do some samples but don´t hold your breath

the only commersial products i would concider is the prototype material blackshark talked about or the stewart 5D.

relax man why do you say "than this two what i use" ?
do you have two seperate systems or do you sell them ?


----------



## relaxman

My best is PL0001LP (old school) and the kid size PL0002 yellow one. They have perfect polarization.
I have two screen one diagonal is 3m (for 50 people) the other is 4m (for 100 people).
I wanted to buy a 6m one for 3-400 people, but the price is way too much from the quality ones.
From China price is acceptable, but the quality?

Check this 3 sample at once while projecting a white circle (good filter in front of projector)

Should be white: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1voAiuMHw1524X6Mk-SRgT-O5hMbxfXwy

Rotating filter 90 degrees, circle should be black: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Qn1L__kcBkWRQKOCKmPbS4EcfHWdmKh4

From left to right: chineese1, chineese2, Silverfabric3D

I didn't want to buy worse screen than i currently have, so i didn't buy the big one


----------



## BlackShark

RealD recently announced 2 new screen materials specially made for polarized 3D.
I didn't dare ask for a sample... I guess they only target large theatre size screens.
https://www.reald.com/#/ultimatescreen


----------



## relaxman

These are not silverscreen, right? Only good for reald system.


----------



## BlackShark

These are polarisation preserving screens (made by RealD).
The claimed extinction ratios are extremely high.
We would call these types of screens as silversceens however they claim these screens are a new technology.


----------



## Vaan Janne

BlackShark said:


> These are polarisation preserving screens (made by RealD).
> The claimed extinction ratios are extremely high.
> We would call these types of screens as silversceens however they claim these screens are a new technology.


If these are Strong MDI made screens called HighWhite as i believe MDI is their official partner i have their sampple book.
The highwhite was most to my likings and is pretty close to stewart5D. sadly it´s only for those who have a realD lisence and THAT´s not cheap.
Crosstalk wise i would say mine is better. it´s still ok though....actually thats something to test.


----------



## Vaan Janne

actually the numbers look like something else then MDI strong.
interesting. 500:1  and in circular. that should be a lot better with linear


----------



## relaxman

A matte white screen preserve polarization? Interesting.
Yepp, linear is the way to go


----------



## BlackShark

relaxman said:


> A matte white screen preserve polarization? Interesting.
> Yepp, linear is the way to go


They are clearly not matte white.
They are high gain (gain 2~3) directional screens (half-gain 30~40°).

But they are still very interesting for polarized 3D users since they have 2D characteristics of hybrid 2D/3D screens, with better polarisation preservation than ultra-high gain silverscreens.


----------



## Morgus1

So I've been experimenting with my Omega setup. Like I foolishly do in so many of my endeavors, I sort of jump in with both feet and then figure things out.... So I have 2 sets of filters and 100 glasses anticipating showing my project in venues that have a good white screen already set up.. I now have a pretty big, sort of portable silver screen, so I have that option too..

Anyway..... I hate these things... Everyone mentions the reflectivness of the inside of the glasses, and the glasses, which don't stay on your head, are built to keep side light from sneaking in... but side light isn't the main problem, side light can be controlled by having a dark room... The problem is the light from the screen itself lightens up your eyelids and around your eye, and that reflects off of the inside of the lenses and is just intolerable to me. You can paint your face and eyes black and that fixes it, but gee wiz...

So buyer beware... anyone want 2 sets of filters and 100 glasses?


----------



## BlackShark

Morgus1 said:


> So I've been experimenting with my Omega setup. (...)
> 
> ... Everyone mentions the reflectivness of the inside of the glasses, and the glasses, which don't stay on your head, are built to keep side light from sneaking in... but side light isn't the main problem, side light can be controlled by having a dark room... The problem is the light from the screen itself lightens up your eyelids and around your eye, and that reflects off of the inside of the lenses and is just intolerable to me. You can paint your face and eyes black and that fixes it, but gee wiz...


When I tested them, I experienced the same thing... But from my testing the light comes from the tiny gap at the top of the glasses.
I tried wearing a cap and the eye reflections disappeared. Yes it's ridiculous to make people wearing caps but that confirms the light comes from above..
I assume this light comes from my white ceiling.

How light controlled is your room ? Do you get the same entry point of light as me ?


----------



## Morgus1

there is that... and that is controllable. but even in a totally dark room with the glasses pushed onto my face, my pale white skin just lights up the inside surface of the lens.. makes it seem foggy. I'm easily annoyed and that annoys me. Just got one of these in so I guess Ill lug it around and use polarizers. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JMGYVMG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## BlackShark

I can't find any mention of a polarisation retention ratio nor extinction ratio...
The close up picture shows a very grainy texture.
It's probably a basic silver screen.


Expect not so good crosstalk and a very sparkly image


----------



## Morgus1

I haven’t set it up yet. 
Don’t worry if it doesn’t serve my purposes well I’ll do whatever it takes. Plan B is to use this cheaper screen that is already fitted and grommetted as a substrate and glue a better material to it if necessary. I don’t tolerate inadequate well at all. That said my 20 year old 4:3 DaLight plain silver screen looks pretty good to me for my purposes.

Ron Labbe has a listing of sources for 3D screens, I called around and didn't find any better options for a large portable setup... elitescreens makes a better more expensive frame, but they wont custom fit any of their 3D materials to it, I called. 

https://www.studio3d.com/pages2/silver_screens.html


----------



## sorini

*Omega 3D*

Hi. A long time ago I bought a pair of Omega 3D filters, about the beginning when they were released. Then, I did not know that they work better with a DLP projector (LCD filters had not yet been created), and at that time I bought two Panasonic PT-AR100U projectors. The system worked very well but now I want to invest in two DLP projectors because now also bought a professional stand to support the projectors. My filters are for DLP projectors. I was thinking about two models of projectors. Optoma HD29darbee or Optoma HD39darbee? Can not spend more than 2,000 euros for both projector. You think it's a good choice? Or you can recommend other projectors? Thank you.


----------



## BlackShark

I have not researched DLP projectors, however the only advice I would have is to make sure the colour wheel is RGBCMY type, and not RGBRGB type.
This is no guarantee of good colour but it would increase the probability of being able to better balance the colours between the eyes.


----------



## sorini

BlackShark said:


> I have not researched DLP projectors, however the only advice I would have is to make sure the colour wheel is RGBCMY type, and not RGBRGB type.
> This is no guarantee of good colour but it would increase the probability of being able to better balance the colours between the eyes.


Thanks for the reply. For a while I abandoned the Omega 3D system, but now the desire to remake the system was born in me, maybe because I've never set it correctly, I worked with improvisations and the result was acceptable but certainly far from the potential of the system. Now I have invested in a stand that allows me to better align the projectors and filters (I attached pictures). The result is much improved, but I find it quite difficult to match the colors into the left and right eyes (the well-known problem of this system). When you have time you can help me please with some advice? What pattern should I use? What steps do I have to follow to match the colors as best I can? Thank you.


----------



## jhammer00

Hi, I'm selling my Omega 3D filters I bought just last year from ebay with 8 pair of 3D glasses.
I had a pair of same projectors but one of them stopped working so I cannot use the filters any more.
The filters and the glasses are working perfectly, are like new, I just bought them last year.
I live in Europe so there are no import taxes for all European countries.
If anyone is interested or want to know any other detail send me a PM.
Thanks!


----------



## Technology3456

Is this system still available to purchase?

Is there a separate box or something you can get in 2020 that fixes the potential "eye rivalry" problem of the consumer lamps giving off inconsistent light and color, and the amount of light coming into each eye being different based on the different color waves being filtered to each eye by the glasses?

If you can afford A. dual DLP projectors and a silver screen and linear polarized filters and processors, or B. dual DLP projectors and a normal screen and the Infetec system or Omega system plus those processors, but not both A. and B., which should you get in 2020 for the best 3D? 

Or if you can get true 72hz per eye active 3D, is that better than every passive setup?

*The questions are really:

1. Is there an unfixable color disparity and "eye rivalry" problem with the Infetec and Omega systems, or not?
2. If it is fixable, then are the Infetec and Omega systems better than linear polarization, or is linear polarization still better either way with long enough throw distance and good screen?
3. Is true active 72hz alternated per eye better equal or better than all passive systems regardless, or which is better?
4. How does high end VR 3D compare to these options on 100+ plus projection screen with DLP projectors?*

Please please help, and please PM me if necessary if you're worried about offending anyone. I'm not trying to get into any of that, I just want to know so I can buy the right thing and end this months long search already. Hit a few false finish lines already but I am so close... just really need to know about this.


----------



## Technology3456

What's better, Infetec or Omega?


----------



## Technology3456

BlackShark said:


> You do not need lens shift, but lens shift makes it easier and allows you to keep the full resolution. (keystone correction does reduce resolution).
> 
> Lining up 2 projectors for acceptable 3D is easy. You can do it in 5~10 minutes. But the misalignment will be obvious as soon as you take the glasses off.
> Lining up 2 projectors for great 3D is difficult. It takes about 1~2 hours. The misaligment will look like a small amount of blur if you take the glasses off, you'll need to get up close to the screen to understand there is a misalignment.
> Lining up 2 projectors to pixel perfection is INSANELY HARD ! Especially with the very coarse controls of consumer projectors. (I cannot achieve it with my current projectors)
> 
> This is where processing come to the rescue. You can do an approximate alignment with the coarse projector controls, and fine tune with the digital processing.
> Yes, it is software correction, yes it lowers the amount total usable pixels. But with high quality scaling devices, it's fine.
> The basic Geobox 300 series does not have warp correction.
> The advanced Geobox 500 series has the feature. It's costs double the price of the basic one.
> I have the Geobox 501 with warp, but I do not use it (I have this box because I wanted to ensure compatibility with both AMD and Nvidia graphics cards, and wanted to have both DVI-Dual-Link and DisplayPort input capability)
> 
> 
> DLP + active shutter glasses has very similar crosstalk characteristics to Omega.
> You have almost zero crosstalk regardless of your position in the room, but it does have some crosstalk if you looks through the glasses sideways (near the edges of the lenses).
> 
> There is a technical issue you need to be careful about if you use shutter glasses, especially since your viewers will be moving around the room.
> Shutter glasses can synchronize with the projectors according to 2 methods :
> 
> light (Infrared or visible light)
> radio waves (RF or Bluetooth)
> If using the light transmission system, the glasses will loose signal when your viewers turn their heads away from the screen or if an object passes in front of the viewer and blocks the view from the glasses receiver to the screen. This will lead to uncomfortable desynchronizations and waiting a fraction of a second to resynchronize when turning their heads again towards the screen.
> Radio wave transmission is much better since it goes around or through furniture and people. The glasses connection will be maintained even if viewers turn their heads away from the screen. I recommend you make sure you have radio wave transmission synchronisation of the glasses.
> 
> When you looks for a projector, double check if it has either built-in RF transmitter, and which format it uses. Some use Bluetooth, some use open RF protocols, some use proprietary RF protocols.
> Some projectors are not equipped with a transmitter but have a standardized VESA 3D-sync output, onto which you can attach a standardized 3D sync transmitter. (in which case you can choose your own equipment)
> The range of the radio transmitter may be a technical requirement you'd want to check, depending on the size of the room you plan to use and how far your viewers will be from the projector/transmitter.
> 
> If you use Omega, then they'll just work throughout the room.


Do Sim2 3D models like M-150 or Lumis 3D use RF or wifi?

If you want to use warp, do you want to use it equally on both projectors, or you just use it on one? Like how would one Geobox 501 do warp on both projectors?


----------



## Technology3456

Do you guys know if the the 3D effect is the same for Infitec, Omega, and high quality linear polarized options? Or is the quality of 3D also different, the 3D effect also different, the health for the eyes also different, etc, between these three options?

I'm aware of brightness differences, head tilt difference, the need for a polarized silver screen with "linear," but I'm wondering besides those differences, is the quality of the 3D itself, when viewed properly on screens of similar quality, different between these three filter companies?


----------



## Technology3456

For Sim2 M-150 projectors, which are DLP projectors that use LED light source with narrowband wavelengths, do I want to use the Omega DLP filters, or the Omega LCD filters?

This is what the Omega creator said about it, but I don't understand, maybe one of you can.



> the LCD version has a color balancing coating on the opposite side from the filter and helps some with this issue most intense with LCD. LCD tends to be more of an issue due to the RGB dichroic filters that split the light to the 3 panels. gaps in the spectrum are due to the choice of dichroic filter and how they work. color wheels in dlp can do the same but most do not have the high level of extinction of cyan and yellow.
> all of the this spectrum loss cuts into some of the bands that the omega filters use to create color balance. then its all up to how much red spectrum is available to be used from the UHP lamp.


Edit: two comments here saying Omega wont work with LED projectors. But if I want to try, am I better off trying with DLP filters, or LCD filters? 



stanger89 said:


> When I asked about LED before, motorman said no, since the primaries are too pure (narrow spectrum).





spectrogj said:


> Won't work with LED or laser projectors
> 
> Best spectrum for Omega is with DLP projectors, throw ratio of 1.5:1 or better


----------



## Technology3456

Does anyone have any idea, or any idea how to help me find, the wavelengths that the right and left eye Omega filters let through the filters, respectively? 

I have the spec sheet for my LEDs, so I just need it for Omega, and I can compare. But I don't think it will work, so I'm also curious, just how "bad" is linear polarization 3D compared to Omega after all? Because that might be my only option with the projectors I got. Didn't even know about this issue until now.


----------



## 3DBob

stereoscopy.com - FAQ


----------



## Technology3456

3DBob said:


> stereoscopy.com - FAQ


Thanks. I compared to that but it's Infitec gen 1, not gen 2. It's not available to consumers and it takes a lot more light (apparently) than either Omega or Infitec gen 2.

I need this exact info for Infitec gen 2, and Omega regular filters, and Omega LCD filters, and I will have everything to make a decision.

By the way, how hard is it to design filters like these? Do you think the average optical filter company could create custom color bandpass filters for the wavelengths of my projectors, and then make sold plastic versions that can be cut and put into glasses? How much would something like that cost, where can I find it? Because that is my perfect solution. Maybe I will get lucky that these bandpass filters by Infitec and Omega, developed for Xenon lamps, will work with my projector's specific LED spectrum, but it's unlikely. The one way to get it right for sure is for it to be custom made. And I would pay over 1 grand for that just to have it right and be done with it all.


----------



## Technology3456

sanderdvd said:


> There is a kit for lcd but this will give more incorrect colors and I am a isf certified calibration person so will not like that


Can you please elaborate why the color balance coating on the "LCD" version of the kit will make the colors worse not better?


----------



## Technology3456

3DBob said:


> stereoscopy.com - FAQ


3DBob, do you have any idea what this means? 



motorman45 said:


> the color variations between eyes using omega filters it totally dependent on how complete the spectrum is coming from a given projector. a lot of LCD and some DLP have deep filter notches that cut out cyan and yellow and the red rolls off steeply leaving a more orange red in the native light output. i have used a couple of uhp lamp dlp projectors that do not exhibit this highly filtered output and the left to right color imbalance is very slight.
> *the LCD version has a color balancing coating on the opposite side from the filter and helps some with this issue* most intense with LCD. LCD tends to be more of an issue due to the RGB dichroic filters that split the light to the 3 panels. gaps in the spectrum are due to the choice of dichroic filter and how they work. color wheels in dlp can do the same but most do not have the high level of extinction of cyan and yellow.
> all of the this spectrum loss cuts into some of the bands that the omega filters use to create color balance. then its all up to how much red spectrum is available to be used from the UHP lamp. i have a newer design for the the system but delays in production are holding it back for now. i think i can create better LCD Lcos balance with my new design. it will take time as ive got some big projects right now.
> 
> 
> Polarization however should work ok from a mirror BUT.. at steep angles there is a bias of S and P planes of polarization and you will see a subtle difference in the intensity of one plane or another from bouncing polarized light from several mirrors. im not sure how well rear screens can maintain polarization. ive had customers move to my filter to do just this as they could not get polarizers to work with rear screen materials. i would love to hear back how this works from your guys if you try it. there may be some materials for this that work and others that do not.


The regular Omega filter was designed for Xenon lamps. The "LCD" Omega filter apparently has a "color balancing coating" and also works better for lcos than the regular Omega filter.

I am trying to decide which one is better for LED lightsource, the Xenon Omega, or the LCD/Lcos omega. 

Apparently the LCD one was originally developed for Sony SXRD projector. However somewhere else there was a comment saying it's the same as the Xenon filter, just with a color balancing coating on the other side of the filter, and the glasses are the same for all of them.

Based on this info, are there any clues which would work better for LED lightsource projectors? Thanks


----------



## Vaan Janne

The linear polarization is more than enough for movie usage. the only downside is the shimmering on some silver surfaces. if you put your money into exelent screen you will have a crosstalk free image for 99.9% of scenes shown on 3d movies. the images are so close together in 3d movies the crosstalk becomes almost never an issue with quality screen.


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> The linear polarization is more than enough for movie usage. the only downside is the shimmering on some silver surfaces. if you put your money into exelent screen you will have a crosstalk free image for 99.9% of scenes shown on 3d movies. the images are so close together in 3d movies the crosstalk becomes almost never an issue with quality screen.


If it's the only one I can use then I'll use it, but the question is if Omega and Dolby will work, should I choose them, or linear polarization?


----------



## Vaan Janne

i would stop talking about dolby as it requires dolby processors and dolby glasses and filtter that to my knoledge are not for consumers at all and you talking atleast 10k and a yearly fee for using dolby to begin with.

Noone can tell you exactly how good whilelight or polarization works with your system.you need to trial and error.

Im jus tsaying polarization is easier to get working with proper balanced image and especially if movies is your think the crosstalk isnt an issue if you have exelent screen.
Still though i would be ready put 3-5k into a screen budget if you aint making it your self. with omegas you can get by with a straight and leveled white canvas
if you can live with the color rivaly in left and right eye.
and after watching 20 minutes your eyes get used to it like with magenta/cyan paper glasses

and most people dont even realize theyr eye sight is different from eye to eye. for example i just noticed i have a whole different gamma curve in my other eye.
so my balanced settings on the system are not spot on for someone else


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> i would stop talking about dolby as it requires dolby processors and dolby glasses and filtter that to my knoledge are not for consumers at all and you talking atleast 10k and a yearly fee for using dolby to begin with.
> 
> Noone can tell you exactly how good whilelight or polarization works with your system.you need to trial and error.
> 
> Im jus tsaying polarization is easier to get working with proper balanced image and especially if movies is your think the crosstalk isnt an issue if you have exelent screen.
> Still though i would be ready put 3-5k into a screen budget if you aint making it your self. with omegas you can get by with a straight and leveled white canvas
> if you can live with the color rivaly in left and right eye.
> and after watching 20 minutes your eyes get used to it like with magenta/cyan paper glasses
> 
> and most people dont even realize theyr eye sight is different from eye to eye. for example i just noticed i have a whole different gamma curve in my other eye.
> so my balanced settings on the system are not spot on for someone else


I only want to use Omega or Infitec (thats what I meant by Dolby, my mistake) if their filters will fit my projectors well enough that CMS can get rid of most the color differences. I dont want to get used to "eye rivalry." I dont want to damage my sensitive eyes. If someone with my eyesight is going to be able to watch 3D regularly at all, it has to be really good quality, good set up, without eye rivalry and stuff like that.

I can do a good linear polarization set up no matter what. But it sounds like maybe Omega or Infitec would be better if I had the right projectors, so I am seeing if there is a way to make Omega or Infitec work. But I cant even find information for sure if Omega or Infitec are actually better than linear polarization, or if linear polarization 3D is just as good? Its hard to find anyone who knows the answer. I know linear polarization requires a silver screen, but okay, I can buy a silver screen. I know linear polarization requires that I do not tilt my head. Okay, probably pretty annoying, but probably I can just not tilt my head while I watch the movie.

So assuming I can avoid tilting my head, and that I can buy a silver screen, is there anything else about linear polarization 3D that is worse than Omega or Infitec, or is it actually just as good? I think maybe I read somewhere that linear polarization has less contrast than Infitec or Omega. Is that true? Why is that the case? How much less? But I also read that linear polarization has more pronounced 3D, or at least, more 3D in both directions, pop-out 3D not just window depth 3D. But the same article said this is a reason why linear polarization 3D is harder on the eyes than Inftec or Omega 3D, because pop-out 3D is harder on the eyes than window depth 3D...

So I dont know what to make of it. Is it basically saying linear polarization actually gives the truest 3D effect, but because 3D by nature is hard on the eyes, the best 3D is also the hardest on the eyes? Whereas with Infitec and Omega, is it saying their 3D is only 70% as good, but because it's only 70% as good, it's also only 70% as hard on the eyes, so actually that's a better trade off? The level of eye strain up to whatever level that 70% represents is tolerable, but the level of eye strain at the level of that 100% number is just too much, so you're actually better off with only 70% of the 3D?

Or is it saying Omega and Infitec 3D is 100% as good as linear polarization, maybe even better, but also less stressful on the eyes too?

I have researched this stuff for months, and still cannot find clear answers.


----------



## Vaan Janne

I kind of told you already everything essential about each tech.
Omega is better for home than infitech. I believe motoman has worked on both systems. Anyways omega was designed more keeping eye to home projectors..
infitech has 3/4 channels and omega 3/3. Have you asked how much they want for infitech filtter and glasses ?
Omega and polarization for movie usage are just as good overal. 
polarization has much cheaper and lighter in weight glasses and easier to setup, with an exelent screen the image pretty darn good.
omega has zero ghostin but like i said only affects under 1% or scenes in movie usage. Omega glasses are ****ing heavy and the filtters are super small (the normal version)
the glasses are also not that great on the head. and if you have glasses they are horrible to use with and there is much more lense reflections with glasses.
but you already knew that i think. 
besides if you think about it, omega and infitech splits light spectrum. with polarizers you get the full color spectrum. thats another thing does it show but still. 
omegas clear zero ghosting picture is something awsome. still overal it´s pretty much same which route you go. 
But overal i try polarization first. get an exelent screen and some cheap polarizers or make them out of cheap glasses. 
its pretty easy to test. the expensive glass polarizers are nothing that special, they pass maby more light and have anti reflection coating and glass to protect the polarizers
but you can test as good with cheaper filtters and glasses.
and about keeping head straight. well unless you tend to sleep on the couch when watching movies its not that big of a problem as the head attens to be oriented straight or something pretty serious is going on in ones neck.

you can say polatiztion has more depth in the both directions. for god sake it´s just difference of filtering light in a different way.,
only think important to strong 3d efect is enough lumens.
3d´s pop out effect if light isnt an issue is somewhat also what settings your using but like i said its just different techniques. 

"But the same article said this is a reason why linear polarization 3D is harder on the eyes than Inftec or Omega 3D, because pop-out 3D is harder on the eyes than window depth 3D."
that just total ********. there is nothing but insane things said in that sentence. If you want 3d and dept then you get a 3d setup you can´t have more or less 3d on the same source with different filtering or 3d produce method saying that is insanity and agains common sense. 
and you gotta remember there is also possibility to use polarized system and still have an active thing in the path. by this i mean a setup where there is normal 3d capable 1 projector
that shoots out active 3d then there is a switching crystal filtter in the light path that switch in synch with the active 3d image and outputs polarized light for left and right and you have a silver screen and polarized glasses. but then it´s not a true passive 3d dual projector setup. it´s just active 3d watched with passive glasses. Here i could say linear polariztion isnt good you eyes as there is no same like device for omega or other white light systems

clear answers are there when you understand what you are reading. And im not saying this to be mean. it´s a huge topic and like you said there is missing info everywhere and
most people are not doing it as 3d dies kind of because of ****ty hardware and poor setups and dimm projectors

if they can guarantee you get a perfect color balance for both eyes with infitech go a head and get a pair. i doubt they will be doing atleast as good as omega.the price is ten times more atleast if i remember correctly


----------



## Vaan Janne

3d isnt hard on the eyes. it doesnt damage your eye nor does seeing different colors in different eyes. thats like saying if you jerk too much your dick falls off.
movies have mostly pretty general 3d effect. there is few movies that push 3d. With games its a different beast but with pc games you can adjust the effect intensity.
the depth and the convergence.
what makes normal people experience 3d to be bad is active 3d flashing and some are sensitive to scenes when the convergence changes. 
3d movies have alot of convergence moving. but with any passive 3d system and dual projector setup no matter the technique (polarization, omega, infictech )
as long as it´s passive done with filtter its like watchin 2d comfortwise when the images are "calibrated" close each other and everything is in check.

and as i said i recommend projectors with manual iris. is becuase you also want to have the light output as close as possible to each other on the projectors. 
only way you could adjust lightoutput without a manual iris is with 3d lut box in the image path and then you need calibration meters ect. and the skills to calibrate.
the same lamp life doesnt always garantee the same lightoutput as projectors differ from each other.


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> I kind of told you already everything essential about each tech.
> Omega is better for home than infitech. I believe motoman has worked on both systems. Anyways omega was designed more keeping eye to home projectors..
> infitech has 3/4 channels and omega 3/3. Have you asked how much they want for infitech filtter and glasses ?
> Omega and polarization for movie usage are just as good overal.
> polarization has much cheaper and lighter in weight glasses and easier to setup, with an exelent screen the image pretty darn good.
> omega has zero ghostin but like i said only affects under 1% or scenes in movie usage. Omega glasses are ****ing heavy and the filtters are super small (the normal version)
> the glasses are also not that great on the head. and if you have glasses they are horrible to use with and there is much more lense reflections with glasses.
> but you already knew that i think.
> besides if you think about it, omega and infitech splits light spectrum. with polarizers you get the full color spectrum. thats another thing does it show but still.
> omegas clear zero ghosting picture is something awsome. still overal it´s pretty much same which route you go.
> But overal i try polarization first. get an exelent screen and some cheap polarizers or make them out of cheap glasses.
> its pretty easy to test. the expensive glass polarizers are nothing that special, they pass maby more light and have anti reflection coating and glass to protect the polarizers
> but you can test as good with cheaper filtters and glasses.
> and about keeping head straight. well unless you tend to sleep on the couch when watching movies its not that big of a problem as the head attens to be oriented straight or something pretty serious is going on in ones neck.
> 
> you can say polatiztion has more depth in the both directions. for god sake it´s just difference of filtering light in a different way.,
> only think important to strong 3d efect is enough lumens.
> 3d´s pop out effect if light isnt an issue is somewhat also what settings your using but like i said its just different techniques.
> 
> "But the same article said this is a reason why linear polarization 3D is harder on the eyes than Inftec or Omega 3D, because pop-out 3D is harder on the eyes than window depth 3D."
> that just total ******. there is nothing but insane things said in that sentence. If you want 3d and dept then you get a 3d setup you can´t have more or less 3d on the same source with different filtering or 3d produce method saying that is insanity and agains common sense.
> and you gotta remember there is also possibility to use polarized system and still have an active thing in the path. by this i mean a setup where there is normal 3d capable 1 projector
> that shoots out active 3d then there is a switching crystal filtter in the light path that switch in synch with the active 3d image and outputs polarized light for left and right and you have a silver screen and polarized glasses. but then it´s not a true passive 3d dual projector setup. it´s just active 3d watched with passive glasses. Here i could say linear polariztion isnt good you eyes as there is no same like device for omega or other white light systems
> 
> clear answers are there when you understand what you are reading. And im not saying this to be mean. it´s a huge topic and like you said there is missing info everywhere and
> most people are not doing it as 3d dies kind of because of ****ty hardware and poor setups and dimm projectors
> 
> if they can guarantee you get a perfect color balance for both eyes with infitech go a head and get a pair. i doubt they will be doing atleast as good as omega.the price is ten times more atleast if i remember correctly





> and about keeping head straight. well unless you tend to sleep on the couch when watching movies its not that big of a problem as the head attens to be oriented straight or something pretty serious is going on in ones neck.


I read that if you tilt your head even 3 degrees off axis, it can make more crosstalk and degrade the 3D and be bad for your eyes. 3 degrees sounds like nothing. That is what Im worried about. If it is only a problem once you tilt 45 degrees to the side, then of course I wont do that. But 3 degrees sounds like almost nothing. You would need a neck brace to keep your head less than 3 degrees tilted.



> if they can guarantee you get a perfect color balance for both eyes with infitech go a head and get a pair. i doubt they will be doing atleast as good as omega.the price is ten times more atleast if i remember correctly


No they can't. It sounds like the opposite. It's going to be really bad color balance with LEDs.


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## Vaan Janne

yes it´s really small the sweet spot for the head. still atleast i havent found it to be any problem, and you gotta understand it also depends on the scene.
if there is high contrast scenen where the corsstalk is easy to happen shure it shows if you move your head but most scenes where is lots of texture and colors you have to tilt much more to notice the braking of 3d. besides hurts your eye is total overstatement. no matter what you do it never hurts you eye, you just see double. you can always go circular polarized but you never get that good extinction values and low crosstalk than with linear. but like i said the filtters are practicly free when plastic so it´s easy to test.
i don´t know about you but i have exelent chairs. you can rest your head on. And your head is straight automaticly unless you have some muscle problems,

Going the dual pj way is expensive and tedious. offcourse it rewards when everything is setup but it+s only for margin of people. 
It´s part of the proces to buy **** and trial and error. I have always said it´s like quicksand made of gold. the more you wiggle the more you sink but luckily it´s gold you sinkin into


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> yes it´s really small the sweet spot for the head. still atleast i havent found it to be any problem, and you gotta understand it also depends on the scene.
> if there is high contrast scenen where the corsstalk is easy to happen shure it shows if you move your head but most scenes where is lots of texture and colors you have to tilt much more to notice the braking of 3d. besides hurts your eye is total overstatement. no matter what you do it never hurts you eye, you just see double. you can always go circular polarized but you never get that good extinction values and low crosstalk than with linear. but like i said the filtters are practicly free when plastic so it´s easy to test.
> i don´t know about you but i have exelent chairs. you can rest your head on. And your head is straight automaticly unless you have some muscle problems,
> 
> Going the dual pj way is expensive and tedious. offcourse it rewards when everything is setup but it+s only for margin of people.
> It´s part of the proces to buy **** and trial and error. I have always said it´s like quicksand made of gold. the more you wiggle the more you sink but luckily it´s gold you sinkin into


Trial and error with Infitec and Omega, all versions, is like $15,000 lol. Most of that would be trying to find Infitec gen 1, which actually might work the best for me but was never available to consumers so would probably cost $10,000. But even the consumer stuff, to try it all, it's $4,000.


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## Vaan Janne

eyah. well omegas aint that expensive to try or the polarisation.
and if infitech is like 10k why do you even concider it ? it ist 9500 more better than omega. tbh it´s mostlikely worse


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> eyah. well omegas aint that expensive to try or the polarisation


Omega small filters are too small for my projectors. So it's $1,000 to try Omega DLP, and another $1,000 to try Omega LCD.


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## Vaan Janne

there is two different sizes. the bigger is 43x73mm 
though they still might be too small. do you have internal filtters in your projectors. maby they could be internally fitted. 
or ask omega if they would make you a bigger pair


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## Vaan Janne

well like i said i have both omega filtters and they are at a box waiting maby sometime to be used. 
that´s just how it is. there is little users who do this stuff so there is no one answers to give.


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## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> there is two different sizes. the bigger is 43x73mm
> though they still might be too small. do you have internal filtters in your projectors. maby they could be internally fitted.
> or ask omega if they would make you a bigger pair


I'll ask. If you don't think it's way more expensive then maybe that is the answer. Mounting inside the projector would also work but I don't know how to do that or where to find out how to do it.


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## Vaan Janne

seems to be 999$ from studio 3d. 





Omega 3D Passive 3D System


Passive 3D glasses and filters for use on any projection screen.



www.studio3d.com





Remember omegas can be closer to lense than polarizers, i have a recolection they withstand more heat.


----------



## Technology3456

Vaan Janne said:


> *seems to be 999$ from studio 3d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Omega 3D Passive 3D System
> 
> 
> Passive 3D glasses and filters for use on any projection screen.
> 
> 
> 
> www.studio3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Remember omegas can be closer to lense than polarizers, i have a recolection they withstand more heat.


What I want to know is how did a small 3D company like Omega get the actress from 50 Shades of Grey to model their glasses?


----------



## Technology3456

If anyone in this corresponding thread knows the answer for Omega, please let me know! Much appreciated.



Technology3456 said:


> Someone advised me that there is a contrast limit (for 3D glasses). He told me for active 3D glasses, the best there is allows 2,000:1 contrast, and you can't get better than that.
> 
> I am wondering if this is also the case for passive filters and glasses? Like, what contrast ratio do Infitec glasses and filters allow? What about Omega? What about linear polarized? Thanks


----------



## Technology3456

motorman5 said:


> *the existing 6P laser 3D systems would not work at all for color balance if it were not for digital color processing*, ive seen it first hand. there is no native color balance as in the omega filter system with a good broad source UHP or xenon setup.


Can anyone translate this? For a lot of people, even with UHP lamp projectors, the Omega system required different 3D luts to each projector to balance the colors, and even then it wasn't/isn't always possible. Shouldn't 6P laser systems have less of an issue, if anything, since the filters and glasses are specially designed for the specific laser wavelengths? 

What does he mean by digital color processing? 3D luts or something beyond that?


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## EnciircleInc

Technology3456 said:


> Omega small filters are too small for my projectors. So it's $1,000 to try Omega DLP, and another $1,000 to try Omega LCD.


Hello. We wanted to join the thread as we, Enciircle Inc. are the new owners of Omega 3D as the founder of Omega Optical has separated the 3D section of the company into a new company. If you have any questions just please let us know.


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## dysmartguy2005

Anybody have any experience with using these filters with Epson projectors? Thinking about getting two Epson HC2250 or even the HC3200 since they both have lens shift. I read though the thread about color balancing issues so I plan on purchasing the LCD filters rather than DLP. Any suggestions?


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## EnciircleInc

dysmartguy2005 said:


> Anybody have any experience with using these filters with Epson projectors? Thinking about getting two Epson HC2250 or even the HC3200 since they both have lens shift. I read though the thread about color balancing issues so I plan on purchasing the LCD filters rather than DLP. Any suggestions?


Hello, We do have experience with customers using many versions of the Epson projectors to include these so there should be issues that arise. We always just ask for each customer to ensure that the filter type that they purchase matches the projector type so that you obtain the best 3D effect available as we have our DLP and LED DLP version and our LCD and LCoS version. Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you!


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## dysmartguy2005

EnciircleInc said:


> Hello, We do have experience with customers using many versions of the Epson projectors to include these so there should be issues that arise. We always just ask for each customer to ensure that the filter type that they purchase matches the projector type so that you obtain the best 3D effect available as we have our DLP and LED DLP version and our LCD and LCoS version. Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you!


What kind of issues might that be? And do certain projectors work better with the filters than others?


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## 3DBob

@Encircleinc:

Do you, or are you going to have, or revamp a website for this technology?
What screen types and sizes are most used?
What lumens are required for specific projector types?
What product/service offerings do you have?
What new tech/offerings are you working on?
What are the commercial vs. non-commercial applications for this tech?
Are there locations/theaters that someone can visit to see the technology in action?
Are you available for personal consulting by phone, zoom, etc.?
Thanks for letting us know of your take-over of this technology...


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## Vaan Janne

You should do a targeted versions for jvc N series. I tried my small filtters but they are too small for jvc. I wish i could find someone in the europe to get them off my hands so i could get the bigger filters to try how they work with the jvcs. The color Tint is hard to remove totally even with 3D lut boxes with polarizers that have smaller tint out of the box so Im somewhat skeptical about omegas with jvc as atleast with sxrd projectors the omegas had alot of tint even after heavy cms’ing.
The omega crosstalk though is about zero like they say. The clean image on a regular Screen is mezmerizing. I just never got pass the tint error on my sxrd. I remember though i got better results with my 3D lut boxes but the correction to rec709 was so heavy the max 1000 lumens per pj just wants even closely enough after lutting.


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## dejoro

EnciircleInc said:


> Hello. We wanted to join the thread as we, Enciircle Inc. are the new owners of Omega 3D as the founder of Omega Optical has separated the 3D section of the company into a new company. If you have any questions just please let us know.


Hello from France, Where should I go to buy Omega filters? I contacted Studio 3D with this email: Hello from France, I had already bought an Omega 3D kit with 5 pairs of glasses on Ebay FR, so I will only need the Omega L and R filters, the large filters (43x73mm) for EPSON LCD projectors. How much do you sell it? How much are the shipping costs for France? Thanks. Regards and have a nice day Denis Platt and I received an email from Robert Stilling saying: I will forward this request to the new retailers. with this address: ron labbe 3d studio 30 Glendale St maynard, my 01754 978 897-4221 Who is Encicircle Inc??? Are you Studio3D? I am lost, from whom and where should these Omega filters be ordered? Thanks Denis alias dejoro


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## motorman45

Glad to see this is still a thing.


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## Nuno Campos

dejoro said:


> Hello Van Janne,
> I sent you a message on "Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread" but got no response.
> I wanted to know if you still sell your Omega filters for LCD projector (small filters, 35x47mm) is that it?
> Cordially
> Dennis Platt, alias dejoro...I live in France





dejoro said:


> Hello from France, Where should I go to buy Omega filters? I contacted Studio 3D with this email: Hello from France, I had already bought an Omega 3D kit with 5 pairs of glasses on Ebay FR, so I will only need the Omega L and R filters, the large filters (43x73mm) for EPSON LCD projectors. How much do you sell it? How much are the shipping costs for France? Thanks. Regards and have a nice day Denis Platt and I received an email from Robert Stilling saying: I will forward this request to the new retailers. with this address: ron labbe 3d studio 30 Glendale St maynard, my 01754 978 897-4221 Who is Encicircle Inc??? Are you Studio3D? I am lost, from whom and where should these Omega filters be ordered? Thanks Denis alias dejoro


I had a look around for you. Their website no longer seems to work.
I did find they have a presence on ebay, so I would start there. I would contact them before making any purchase to make sure they have exactly what you need for you setup.
Enciircle | eBay Stores


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## dejoro

Hello and thank you for your message,
I sent several messages on ebay and no response!
Yet my first glasses and filters I bought them through ebay.fr.
I will try by ebay.com
Thanks
Dennis


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## motorman45

Here 










Revolutionary White Light Passive Stereoscopic Immersive Projection 3d System | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Revolutionary White Light Passive Stereoscopic Immersive Projection 3d System at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## Nuno Campos

dejoro said:


> Hello and thank you for your message,
> I sent several messages on ebay and no response!
> Yet my first glasses and filters I bought them through ebay.fr.
> I will try by ebay.com
> Thanks
> Dennis


Since the official website is no longer active, I suspect they might have stopped doing business, even on ebay. Which is a shame. Let us know if you’re successful in contacting them.


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## motorman45

Vaan Janne said:


> You should do a targeted versions for jvc N series. I tried my small filtters but they are too small for jvc. I wish i could find someone in the europe to get them off my hands so i could get the bigger filters to try how they work with the jvcs. The color Tint is hard to remove totally even with 3D lut boxes with polarizers that have smaller tint out of the box so Im somewhat skeptical about omegas with jvc as atleast with sxrd projectors the omegas had alot of tint even after heavy cms’ing.
> The omega crosstalk though is about zero like they say. The clean image on a regular Screen is mezmerizing. I just never got pass the tint error on my sxrd. I remember though i got better results with my 3D lut boxes but the correction to rec709 was so heavy the max 1000 lumens per pj just wants even closely enough after lutting.


At one point years ago i worked with a guy in Japan on trying to get his JVC units to work with the filters, it never really satisfied him due to the spectral pre filtering of the LCD setup they use. even the Lcos corrected set is not ideal. the problem is a lack of blue light in one channel and the near total lack of cyan and yellow spectrum due to the specific dichroics inside a JVC light engine.. Om3d is still one of the best systems i feel but im biased. DLP even with UHP is really good with a long throw setup, lcd was an after thought in an attemt to get it to run on sony sxrd cinema units we had access to. nobody else uses lcd in cinema. 
side note , funny to see that dude ,tech3456 is banned, he was a paid disinformation shill probably from infitech. they hated that we had a better filter system than they did and sold way more home and small systems as well. lol too funny.


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## dejoro

Thank you, I contacted the seller for the purchase of LCD filters, I will tell you what it is....


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## Nuno Campos

motorman45 said:


> At one point years ago i worked with a guy in Japan on trying to get his JVC units to work with the filters, it never really satisfied him due to the spectral pre filtering of the LCD setup they use. even the Lcos corrected set is not ideal. the problem is a lack of blue light in one channel and the near total lack of cyan and yellow spectrum due to the specific dichroics inside a JVC light engine.. Om3d is still one of the best systems i feel but im biased. DLP even with UHP is really good with a long throw setup, lcd was an after thought in an attemt to get it to run on sony sxrd cinema units we had access to. nobody else uses lcd in cinema.
> side note , funny to see that dude ,tech3456 is banned, he was a paid disinformation shill probably from infitech. they hated that we had a better filter system than they did and sold way more home and small systems as well. lol too funny.


I browsed their website intensively before it went away. It is a shame they never got their filters to work with laser projectors, and I’ve always wondered if the dlp filter would work with a led light source. Also, I believe the fact you need 2 projector is too much for the average user, specially the hassle of setting up everything correctly. But boy, the 3D these produce must be a sight to behold. But like you said, dlp projectors are amazing with 3D even using the active glasses.


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## Vaan Janne

motorman45 said:


> At one point years ago i worked with a guy in Japan on trying to get his JVC units to work with the filters, it never really satisfied him due to the spectral pre filtering of the LCD setup they use. even the Lcos corrected set is not ideal. the problem is a lack of blue light in one channel and the near total lack of cyan and yellow spectrum due to the specific dichroics inside a JVC light engine.. Om3d is still one of the best systems i feel but im biased. DLP even with UHP is really good with a long throw setup, lcd was an after thought in an attemt to get it to run on sony sxrd cinema units we had access to. nobody else uses lcd in cinema.
> side note , funny to see that dude ,tech3456 is banned, he was a paid disinformation shill probably from infitech. they hated that we had a better filter system than they did and sold way more home and small systems as well. lol too funny.


I doubt tech3456 was anybody with those intentions. I talked with him alot. To the point of dying inside a little. He was so all over the place. if you follow his post over this forum, i think there was no thread he had something to ask about passive 3d and 3d in general. with all that energy he would have build him self a system already.
Though im glad he is "gone". I always felt the need to answer him and at the same time i hated it as i had a feeling it was a waste of my time all along as i started to think from the start he is one of those ask alot, do little guys. Im glad to help people but i hate when i talk to a wall for nothing.

My exprience with omegas has been mitsubishi sxrd (hc5/hc9000D) i tried blancing them with my colorboxes and the results were pretty good but the problem came with the low lightoutput of those projectors after 3d lutting.If im asked best bet to get omega 3d filtters working with a 3 chip design that inst DLP is never sony projectors with higher lumens to have some room to make 3d lut corrections.
For me the 1-chip dlp was never an option. I feel discomfort when watching those.

Tbh i would go dual HW65 and some older eeColor boxes if one can find some.
I still use fullhd resolution for all my games and offcourse 3d blurays. but for games especially the resolutions is no problem at all.
the NX5´s might upscale the image to somedegree but im pretty shure the fenomal image comes from jvc´s contrast more than the resolution upscale.

Two things are certain. I love my setup allthough it´s polarizerd. I have so good diy screen that it bests or is as good as all commercial materials i have tested in crosstalk and shimmer. only downside being uniformity on brightness. but the price difference is so huge i don´t bother.
second thing is that if you get omega colors right. The 3d image is stunning because of zero noise from silverscreens.
The noise isn´t really seen on anything but uniformed surfaces that are mid or high brightness but still, no silverscreen is awsome.
I have tried various new vr hmd´s but it´s just not there yet. and on top of that with a 3d setup you can enjoy the image with someone else or more people.
Im currently playing Scorn and it´s just frikin awsome on a bigscreen in 3d. Or Two of us with my wife. Doing splitscreen 3d game with a friend on 120" screen is just something else and the 3d adds so much to graphics and to the spatial awareness.

i remember motoman45 you said that the best chance of getting closer to 100% color balance is a xenon based projector.
have you looked at any new projectors. are the laser projectors generally worse than lamp based to get the widest colorbands ?


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## Nuno Campos

Vaan Janne said:


> I doubt tech3456 was anybody with those intentions. I talked with him alot. To the point of dying inside a little. He was so all over the place. if you follow his post over this forum, i think there was no thread he had something to ask about passive 3d and 3d in general. with all that energy he would have build him self a system already.
> Though im glad he is "gone". I always felt the need to answer him and at the same time i hated it as i had a feeling it was a waste of my time all along as i started to think from the start he is one of those ask alot, do little guys. Im glad to help people but i hate when i talk to a wall for nothing.
> 
> My exprience with omegas has been mitsubishi sxrd (hc5/hc9000D) i tried blancing them with my colorboxes and the results were pretty good but the problem came with the low lightoutput of those projectors after 3d lutting.If im asked best bet to get omega 3d filtters working with a 3 chip design that inst DLP is never sony projectors with higher lumens to have some room to make 3d lut corrections.
> For me the 1-chip dlp was never an option. I feel discomfort when watching those.
> 
> Tbh i would go dual HW65 and some older eeColor boxes if one can find some.
> I still use fullhd resolution for all my games and offcourse 3d blurays. but for games especially the resolutions is no problem at all.
> the NX5´s might upscale the image to somedegree but im pretty shure the fenomal image comes from jvc´s contrast more than the resolution upscale.
> 
> Two things are certain. I love my setup allthough it´s polarizerd. I have so good diy screen that it bests or is as good as all commercial materials i have tested in crosstalk and shimmer. only downside being uniformity on brightness. but the price difference is so huge i don´t bother.
> second thing is that if you get omega colors right. The 3d image is stunning because of zero noise from silverscreens.
> The noise isn´t really seen on anything but uniformed surfaces that are mid or high brightness but still, no silverscreen is awsome.
> I have tried various new vr hmd´s but it´s just not there yet. and on top of that with a 3d setup you can enjoy the image with someone else or more people.
> Im currently playing Scorn and it´s just frikin awsome on a bigscreen in 3d. Or Two of us with my wife. Doing splitscreen 3d game with a friend on 120" screen is just something else and the 3d adds so much to graphics and to the spatial awareness.
> 
> i remember motoman45 you said that the best chance of getting closer to 100% color balance is a xenon based projector.
> have you looked at any new projectors. are the laser projectors generally worse than lamp based to get the widest colorbands ?


Can I ask you for a description of your setup? Some pics would be great.
And that includes your PC and how you’re able to run games in 3D. Been reading on ways to do it, but drivers and cards that do it are getting rarer.
Thank you


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## Vaan Janne

Nuno Campos said:


> Can I ask you for a description of your setup? Some pics would be great.
> And that includes your PC and how you’re able to run games in 3D. Been reading on ways to do it, but drivers and cards that do it are getting rarer.
> Thank you


HI.
I don´t share pictures generally. I could do it for money LOL and i already discribed my setup
I have spend so much time and effort into dual projection and 3d gaming and 3d in general, i should get paid fulltime for it LOL
You should go to discord and disqus and ask more there about cards and drivers. There is more options now as Geo11 driver was created.





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I still use "regular 3d vision setup" but i play some games using geo11 fixes so there is no 3 cpu core bug anymore.

Only if you have a geobox and dual pj setup i can give you advices about playing games using 3d vision.

Many people use passive 3d capable old oleds or vr units, but vr units have their downsides. I have not yet found a hmd i like and tbh it´s only for one person,
i prefer i can play with someone in 3d if i want.

2080ti -> dp to geobox 501 ->eeColor box L/R-> nx5L nx5R
and hdmi2.0 from pc -> denon for atmos audio.
i have a 125" curved screen with DIY paint for polarized 3d. Linear 45/135 polarizers. Better crosstalk values than circular used in imax for example.
Old dmp-bdt500 panasonic region chipped player for blurays.


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## motorman45

I appreciate the perspective Vaan my mistake not knowing whats gone on here. i just saw what a certain 3d maker tried to do to the former company i worked for. as for lasers, its been years but i did look at and make prototypes for a laser system, very high end laser light engines can be tailored to a set of filter glasses and were. in 2015 i got to see and test it first hand, that was my last foray into this field. it was impressive what was being done but we had manufacturing and equipment issues that kept us out of the running. i dont think the high end laser 3d went anywhere but a few very expensive theaters. i looked closely at blue laser -phosphor disk sources and many LED illuminated units. some would work ok but none had the spectral output to match xenon. 
its funny i see some proposing new versions of anaglyph with different band arrangements but horrible color balance and thinking ones eyes will just combine things. the whole goal of what i came up with was to minimize color difference while making 1000:1 extinction. it worked in cinema beautifully, adapting the same band selections to home units was a challenge. its possible shifting all the bands would make them work far better with a given lamp like uhp, laser-phosphor or something but its an expensive process making hard surface coated multiband filters and the market would need to bear the costs. cinema sure could. it was a fun ride from 2009-2012 but it was just one of many projects for me.


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