# 3D Shutter DLP Glasses: REVIEWS?



## cyberized

I have one of the "old" Sammys that are "3D Ready"; a 61A750 LED DLP and I have decided to not wait too much longer to take the 3D Plunge - I just added the Arcsoft 3D Addon to my TotalMedia Program.


I have spent MUCH time trying to find ALL 3D Glasses that are compatible with my HDTV and also any REVIEWS of the same??? I am reading over and over recently about new 3D Shutter Glasses [some DLP] made by Viewsonic, Panasonic, and LG + already knew of those RED ones 101, 102 and 103's + those Razor-I Glasses that come with emitter and Tridef software for $149.


Does anyone here know IF any of those NEW offerings above would work with my set? Also - does anyone here use the last one I refer to - if so - please review it and/or any 3D Glasses that would work on my DLP???


TKS michael


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18757981
> 
> 
> I have one of the "old" Sammys that are "3D Ready"; a 61A750 LED DLP and I have decided to not wait too much longer to take the 3D Plunge - I just added the Arcsoft 3D Addon to my TotalMedia Program.
> 
> 
> I have spent MUCH time trying to find ALL 3D Glasses that are compatible with my HDTV and also any REVIEWS of the same??? I am reading over and over recently about new 3D Shutter Glasses [some DLP] made by Viewsonic, Panasonic, and LG + already knew of those RED ones 101, 102 and 103's + those Razor-I Glasses that come with emitter and Tridef software for $149.
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know IF any of those NEW offerings above would work with my set? Also - does anyone here use the last one I refer to - if so - please review it and/or any 3D Glasses that would work on my DLP???
> 
> 
> TKS michael



Anything that supports DLP link will definitely work (at least some viewsonics support it and Xpand x102s definitely do). I bought Xpand x102s on Wed. and they are supposed to get here friday. Everything I read about them has been very positive and I hope my wearing of glasses already doesn't hinder the x102s at all.


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## cyberized




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18758059
> 
> 
> Anything that supports DLP link will definitely work (at least some viewsonics support it and Xpand x102s definitely do). I bought Xpand x102s on Wed. and they are supposed to get here friday. Everything I read about them has been very positive and I hope my wearing of glasses already doesn't hinder the x102s at all.



TKS - I too wear glasses and am leaning in the same direction that you have gone; PLEASE share with us how you like the 102's after you try them out for a bit.

michael


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## ChrisHawks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18758059
> 
> 
> Everything I read about them has been very positive and I hope my wearing of glasses already doesn't hinder the x102s at all.



I have a number of these glasses (X102's ) and have hosted several 3D viewing parties with them. The folks who wore glasses seemed to enjoy them just fine. They fit well over existing glasses. The best part....they're very sturdy and waterproof. So I imagine they will hold up to usage over the long run quite well.



-----Chris


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## Martinefski

Well my experience with the x102's at least with my Mitsubishi dlp has been less than stellar. I see lots of ghosting and They tend to lose sync a lot. Also compared to my nvidia 3D vision glasses the x102's are very heavy and uncomfortable.


I am really bummed about the performance, of these x102's I was hoping to do away with having to use my computer and the nvidia emitter, but no luck. It's kind of a pain to get set up each time but the viewing experience is drastically better so I am sticking with this option.


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18759719
> 
> 
> Well my experience with the x102's at least with my Mitsubishi dlp has been less than stellar. I see lots of ghosting and They tend to lose sync a lot. Also compared to my nvidia 3D vision glasses the x102's are very heavy and uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> I am really bummed about the performance, of these x102's I was hoping to do away with having to use my computer and the nvidia emitter, but no luck. It's kind of a pain to get set up each time but the viewing experience is drastically better so I am sticking with this option.



What model Mits do you have?


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18759907
> 
> 
> What model Mits do you have?



I have the 73837, it's last years model. Also My Blu-Ray player is the Panasonic xxx350 model and my AVR is the Pioneer Elite 94TXH.


Another thing just incase anybody gets the same idea I had, you cannot use the nvidia glasses the same time as the DLP Link glasses. Because for whatever reason the DLP Link glasses emediately disable themselves after about a second or two if the nvidia glasses are running.


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## bcterp

HI Martinefski


Do you have any CFL/fluorescent lights on in the room? I have a Mits 73837 and 2 pairs of X102s. They work great, solid sync even if I turn away for a moment and no ghosting. I learned the hard way that my overhead CFL lights in the room must be off. They cause the glasses to go haywire and lose sync repeatedly. If not you may want to look into sending them back under warranty, they should not be causing any problems like that.


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## idamon

My x102's do not seem to shut off. Period. I took the batteries out overnight and put them back in this morning, 30 minutes later they are still on. How long should it take for them to turn off?


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idamon* /forum/post/18762377
> 
> 
> My x102's do not seem to shut off. Period. I took the batteries out overnight and put them back in this morning, 30 minutes later they are still on. How long should it take for them to turn off?



I haven’t paid much attention but within 30 minutes they should be off (the lenses have a green tint). I do know that they don’t immediately shut off after losing the signal. I think it takes at least a few minutes of no signal before they go back to green. They are a little too easy to turn on in my opinion, just a light brush on the side of mine will pop them on.


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## cyberized

Are you leaving them OUT in the light?


I read their manual on line and I do believe they advise you in there that they will stay on and wear out the batteries IF you do not store them kind of OUT of the light. Hope this helps.


michael


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## idamon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18762505
> 
> 
> Are you leaving them OUT in the light?
> 
> 
> I read their manual on line and I do believe they advise you in there that they will stay on and wear out the batteries IF you do not store them kind of OUT of the light. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> michael



Thought about that... dont think it is true but I keep them in the dark anyhow and no avail. Going on 45 minutes now and still dark, not green... I think they are defective and I will have to exchange. A higher up with a 3d company told me alot of people complain about this happening with the x102's... I am glad they are not terribly expensive.

I hate the batteries so bad. If you are thinking about getting these glasses beware the batteries are designed to break the glasses. It is so difficult to get them in and out with the key that it breaks my heart having to man handle the glasses like I do.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18760984
> 
> 
> HI Martinefski
> 
> 
> Do you have any CFL/fluorescent lights on in the room? I have a Mits 73837 and 2 pairs of X102s. They work great, solid sync even if I turn away for a moment and no ghosting. I learned the hard way that my overhead CFL lights in the room must be off. They cause the glasses to go haywire and lose sync repeatedly. If not you may want to look into sending them back under warranty, they should not be causing any problems like that.



You know I actually do, but I really think they were probably off since I usually try to veiw movies with the lights out. I will check into this when I get home, hopefully that will resolve my problem. That way, all I have to do is get over their over all bulkiness and I won't feel so bad about wasting close to 300 bucks on two pair.


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idamon* /forum/post/18762816
> 
> 
> I hate the batteries so bad. If you are thinking about getting these glasses beware the batteries are designed to break the glasses. It is so difficult to get them in and out with the key that it breaks my heart having to man handle the glasses like I do.



Totally agree on the batteries. You have to jam them in there like a gorilla and twist, very awkward.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18762951
> 
> 
> You know I actually do, but I really think they were probably off since I usually try to veiw movies with the lights out. I will check into this when I get home, hopefully that will resolve my problem. That way, all I have to do is get over their over all bulkiness and I won't feel so bad about wasting close to 300 bucks on two pair.



Hopefully it works out. For a day or two I was pissed thinking I got two pairs of defective glasses. Turns out fluorescent lighting interferes with the DLP-Link light flashes from the TV.


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## pjb16

My x102's just got here, and while it might not be ideal to wear them over my glasses it seems to be working out ok. Playing Avatar: the game looks very cool.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18760984
> 
> 
> Hopefully it works out. For a day or two I was pissed thinking I got two pairs of defective glasses. Turns out fluorescent lighting interferes with the DLP-Link light flashes from the TV.



Hey thanks a lot that seemed to be the problem, although I still feel the nvidia glasses look a tad bit better these work good enough and now I won't have to hassle with the computer unless I really want to. Now if only they were not so kluncky, you don't happen to have a quick fix for that as well do you?...LOL


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18764163
> 
> 
> Hey thanks a lot that seemed to be the problem, although I still feel the nvidia glasses look a tad bit better these work good enough and now I won't have to hassle with the computer unless I really want to. Now if only they were not so kluncky, you don't happen to have a quick fix for that as well do you?...LOL



Just curious, but why do you feel they a clunky?


They seem ok to me, but then again I'm used to wearing glasses all the time already. I haven't seen 3D in theaters yet, so I can't compare the x102s to anything else either.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18764314
> 
> 
> Just curious, but why do you feel they a clunky?
> 
> 
> They seem ok to me, but then again I'm used to wearing glasses all the time already. I haven't seen 3D in theaters yet, so I can't compare the x102s to anything else either.



Well compared to the nvidia glasses, they weigh I am guessing close to twice as much and the frames are probably two to three times thicker. Also the glasses themselves don't have the usual glasses hinges so they take up a lot more space.


Another thing I just don't get why xpand went for the obviously over the top tacky look and probably the worst design in the history of battery changing one has ever seen. I mean I really don't get that battery thing at all, could have they came up with a worse design? I think they would have really had to try.


The only thing I can really say good about them is they are easy to use and to be fair that is a pretty big thing.


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## idamon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18765021
> 
> 
> Well compared to the nvidia glasses...
> 
> Another thing I just don't get why xpand went for the obviously over the top tacky look and probably the worst design in the history of battery changing one has ever seen. I mean I really don't get that battery thing at all, could have they came up with a worse design? I think they would have really had to try.
> 
> 
> The only thing I can really say good about them is they are easy to use and to be fair that is a pretty big thing.



I am certain that it is designed the batteries as such for two reasons: 1) decreases glasses lifetime so you buy more and 2)the plastic coating on the battery makes it propriety. They easily could have popped a cr2032 in there and had a plastic cover, but then alot of there profit goes to energizer. I cannot believe how blatantly they would extort people by making them purchase their batteries at atleast buck fifty a pop... you would think idiot customers (me) would be smarter and go with glasses with universal batteries.


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18765021
> 
> 
> Well compared to the nvidia glasses, they weigh I am guessing close to twice as much and the frames are probably two to three times thicker. Also the glasses themselves don't have the usual glasses hinges so they take up a lot more space.
> 
> 
> Another thing I just don't get why xpand went for the obviously over the top tacky look and *probably the worst design in the history of battery changing one has ever seen. I mean I really don't get that battery thing at all, could have they came up with a worse design?* I think they would have really had to try.
> 
> 
> The only thing I can really say good about them is they are easy to use and to be fair that is a pretty big thing.



I found the batter changing to be pretty simple personally.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18765133
> 
> 
> I found the batter changing to be pretty simple personally.



Glad you like the design, come back and let us know how much you like it after you accidentally throw those keys away. I know you would never do that










My point was the design is not very elegant, I am glad you are satisfied with them that's all that counts.


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18766273
> 
> 
> Glad you like the design, come back and let us know how much you like it after you accidentally throw those keys away. I know you would never do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point was the design is not very elegant, I am glad you are satisfied with them that's all that counts.



Yea, if I threw the keys away I'd probably feel a lot different.


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## peter0328

The XpanD X101 and X102 ASGs share the same design. Since the X101 is designed for theaters it has a priority of anti-theft. Since the X102 follows the same design it makes sense that the batteries are hard to remove without the key!


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## idamon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18766911
> 
> 
> The XpanD X101 and X102 ASGs share the same design. Since the X101 is designed for theaters it has a priority of anti-theft. Since the X102 follows the same design it makes sense that the batteries are hard to remove without the key!



No. Dumb. Battery is like 12 cents or less. People are not going to take out batteries from a well designed case (aka has a screw) in the dark, after a movie, before the ushers show up. Grow up. It is designed to make more money. Period.


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## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idamon* /forum/post/18766939
> 
> 
> No. Dumb. Battery is like 12 cents or less. People are not going to take out batteries from a well designed case (aka has a screw) in the dark, after a movie, before the ushers show up. Grow up. It is designed to make more money. Period.



I'm sure XpanD also doesn't want the movie theaters that have the X101s to be using a competitors battery. If you hate this situation so much then don't buy their glasses. Get the RealD CE5 instead. Oh wait, the CE5 cost $600 so it actually is WAY cheaper to get the X102 since the batteries are $1.30 each it would take ~360 battery replacements before the CE5 and X102 would cost the same. Just to let you know, that's 43,200 HOURS of operation (at 120 hours per battery quoted on XpanD's site)!


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## idamon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18767014
> 
> 
> I'm sure XpanD also doesn't want the movie theaters that have the X101s to be using a competitors battery. If you hate this situation so much then don't buy their glasses. Get the RealD CE5 instead. Oh wait, the CE5 cost $600 so it actually is WAY cheaper to get the X102 since the batteries are $1.30 each it would take ~360 battery replacements before the CE5 and X102 would cost the same. Just to let you know, that's 43,200 HOURS of operation (at 120 hours per battery quoted on XpanD's site)!



Agree with you there. That's why I bought them, much cheaper in the short run. I am just not happy about it and look forward to the next generation when this tech isn't quite so new and they can't get away with propriety because consumers wont buy. Of course they do not want theatres using energizer instead of Xpand... but soon competitors will release xpand copies with replaceable affordable batteries and xpand will be forced to do the same to keep up... it will be awesome... in the future when people actually want to buy this crap.


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *idamon* /forum/post/18767260
> 
> 
> Agree with you there. That's why I bought them, much cheaper in the short run. I am just not happy about it and look forward to the next generation when this tech isn't quite so new and they can't get away with propriety because consumers wont buy. Of course they do not want theatres using energizer instead of Xpand... but soon competitors will release xpand copies with replaceable affordable batteries and xpand will be forced to do the same to keep up... it will be awesome... *in the future when people actually want to buy this crap*.



Assuming that even happens. I've seen a bunch of people write it off recent simply because they have to wear the active shutter glasses, or simply calling it a gimmick (like "oh no, somethings popping out of the screen at me"). It seems to me that many people just want it to go away (after playing avatar in 3D, I certainly don't) without giving it a chance.


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## steelers1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18767302
> 
> 
> Assuming that even happens. I've seen a bunch of people write it off recent simply because they have to wear the active shutter glasses, or simply calling it a gimmick (like "oh no, somethings popping out of the screen at me"). It seems to me that many people just want it to go away (after playing avatar in 3D, I certainly don't) without giving it a chance.



i looked at xpand web sight and the 103`s are regular cr2032 batteries and it sounds like that will be the case with the 104`s. when they come out in jan 2011


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## JOHNnDENVER

I have two different types, but won't be completely setup until late this month.


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## hceuterpe

This guy made a review a while back.
http://www.bedfordbraces.com/reviews...1000review.htm 


Can't tell how pertinent it is because it's a couple years old already, when no 1080p HD content really existed.


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## bcterp

I just got another pair of X102's ordered from Xpand. Unfortunately they seem to be defective. The glasses will lose sync whenever any dim image is on screen. I tested them side by side with an older pair that I have and the older pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I did swap out the battery but same problem.


I called Xpand and the main number goes to the voicemail of someone who is on vacation for most of the week. That's pretty annoying. Hopefully I can get a response through email.


Anyone else have this problem?


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## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18774073
> 
> 
> I called Xpand and the main number goes to the voicemail of someone who is on vacation for most of the week. That's pretty annoying.



I'm betting that the voicemail went to a guy named Rorey. I ordered a pair of X102's last night from Xpand and was surprised to receive an "I am out of the office until Thursday" from Xpand, immmediately after receiving the order confirmation email. It sounds like Rorey may be the only person responsible for the X102's over there.


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Broderick* /forum/post/18775891
> 
> 
> I'm betting that the voicemail went to a guy named Rorey. I ordered a pair of X102's last night from Xpand and was surprised to receive an "I am out of the office until Thursday" from Xpand, immmediately after receiving the order confirmation email. It sounds like Rorey may be the only person responsible for the X102's over there.



Yup, I guess we'll both be waiting for Rorey to get back.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18774073
> 
> 
> I just got another pair of X102's ordered from Xpand. Unfortunately they seem to be defective. The glasses will lose sync whenever any dim image is on screen. I tested them side by side with an older pair that I have and the older pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I did swap out the battery but same problem.
> 
> 
> I called Xpand and the main number goes to the voicemail of someone who is on vacation for most of the week. That's pretty annoying. Hopefully I can get a response through email.
> 
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?



Yeah that's the same thing mine do, although one pair does it about about every 30 seconds. I was thinking/hoping it was just a battery issue, because I changed the battery out on one pair and it seemed to help a lot but not fix it entirely. But since you seem to be having a similar problem, I wonder if the most recent batch of glasses going out had a lot of defects. I just received my pairs last week.


For a while I was thinking it was just the cfl lighting issue, but after further use I still am having issues with these glasses.


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## pjb16

I got my glasses on Friday and had no issues, so I don't know that'd it be a current batch thing.


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18776646
> 
> 
> I got my glasses on Friday and had no issues, so I don't know that'd it be a current batch thing.



Have you tried viewing any very dim scenes with nothing bright at all in the image?


I reproduced this using a first person game on my PC where I had control of the camera and compared these glasses to my older pair. It's weird, they only disconnect when the entire image on screen is dim. It's like they cut off whenever the light output of the TV gets below a certain threshold.


Not sure why the new ones disconnect, I thought that they sync with the light flashes between the frames not with the image itself. I'll try messing with them some more tonight.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18776709
> 
> 
> Have you tried viewing any very dim scenes with nothing bright at all in the image?
> 
> 
> I reproduced this using a first person game on my PC where I had control of the camera and compared these glasses to my older pair. It's weird, they only disconnect when the entire image on screen is dim. It's like they cut off whenever the light output of the TV gets below a certain threshold.
> 
> 
> Not sure why the new ones disconnect, I thought that they sync with the light flashes between the frames not with the image itself. I'll try messing with them some more tonight.



I know what you mean when watching monsters vs Aliens every time the image gets dim I seem to lose sync.


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## pjb16

I've played a lot of Avatar and Invincible Tiger, and I only ever lost sync when I put the glasses on my coffee table shelves (which are well hidden from the TV's light path).


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18776732
> 
> 
> I know what you mean when watching monsters vs Aliens every time the image gets dim I seem to lose sync.



How does 3d blu-ray look on your dlp? I'm waiting on the adapter and ps3 update, games are the only content I have at the moment.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18776877
> 
> 
> How does 3d blu-ray look on your dlp? I'm waiting on the adapter and ps3 update, games are the only content I have at the moment.



I feel it looks really good! So far everybody I have showed it to have really liked it as well, more so with the nvidia glasses because they never lose sync and never have any ghosting.


I just wish we had more content to view, I am really looking forward to getting that adapter soon, well hopefully soon....lol


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## peter0328

Do you guys have the X102 v1 or v2? v2 just launched recently and from what I can tell based on press pictures on the site they have three white lines on the inside of the right arm of the frame.


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18779853
> 
> 
> Do you guys have the X102 v1 or v2? v2 just launched recently and from what I can tell based on press pictures on the site they have three white lines on the inside of the right arm of the frame.



v2 is the pair I am having trouble with, v1 works fine


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18779853
> 
> 
> Do you guys have the X102 v1 or v2? v2 just launched recently and from what I can tell based on press pictures on the site they have three white lines on the inside of the right arm of the frame.



I will check on this when I get home.


Update: I don't see any white lines anywhere so I must have version 1.


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## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18779853
> 
> 
> Do you guys have the X102 v1 or v2? v2 just launched recently and from what I can tell based on press pictures on the site they have three white lines on the inside of the right arm of the frame.



Those aren't white lines. They are slits in the glasses that you can see through to the white background in the picture. Assuming you mean this picture.

http://www.xpandcinema.com/news/50/ 


The X102's were out of stock on Xpand's website for months (if I'm remembering correctly). They just came back in stock at about the time the press release about the 2nd generation glasses came out. I think it's a safe assumption that glasses ordered from them in the past couple of weeks are second generation. But that is just my assumption.


My defective pair say X102SUBB on them and then have what seems to be a serial number. The older pair say X102SUD plus serial number.


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## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18782214
> 
> 
> Those aren't white lines. They are slits in the glasses that you can see through to the white background in the picture. Assuming you mean this picture.
> 
> .



Well if those are the white lines then yes my problem is with v2 as well.


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## peter0328




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18782214
> 
> 
> Those aren't white lines. They are slits in the glasses that you can see through to the white background in the picture. Assuming you mean this picture.
> 
> http://www.xpandcinema.com/news/50/



Yep that's what I am talking about.


I don't know why XpanD is having all these problems with the v2. The press release said these glasses were supposed to have over 100ft range LOL


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peter0328* /forum/post/18784790
> 
> 
> Yep that's what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> I don't know why XpanD is having all these problems with the v2. The press release said these glasses were supposed to have over 100ft range LOL



I won't be able to verify until friday, but I'm pretty sure I have v2's (they shipped late last Wed) and they work fine for me.


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## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18764085
> 
> 
> My x102's just got here, and while it might not be ideal to wear them over my glasses it seems to be working out ok. Playing Avatar: the game looks very cool.



Is the Avatar Game 3d? If so is it a PC game or a PS3 game. I tried to find a 3D Avatar game on Amazon but couldn't find it. I am looking for some kind of 3D source so I can try out my setup.


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## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18793024
> 
> 
> Is the Avatar Game 3d? If so is it a PC game or a PS3 game. I tried to find a 3D Avatar game on Amazon but couldn't find it. I am looking for some kind of 3D source so I can try out my setup.



It is available on PC, PS3, and 360.
http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Playsta...6855614&sr=8-1


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## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18793534
> 
> 
> It is available on PC, PS3, and 360.
> http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Playsta...6855614&sr=8-1



People in another thread were having problems with their x102s not turning on. Anyone here with that problem?


I hope it's not something inherently wrong with the glasses, and only operator error. Perhaps they haven't found the on/off switch on the right side temple area?


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/18794287
> 
> 
> People in another thread were having problems with their x102s not turning on. Anyone here with that problem?
> 
> 
> I hope it's not something inherently wrong with the glasses, and only operator error. Perhaps they haven't found the on/off switch on the right side temple area?



I have some problems with one of my pairs keeping sync. I'm disappointed that they arrived clearly defective and Xpand support is a one man show and this person has been "out of the office" all week. At least my other pair works great.


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augerhandle* /forum/post/18794287
> 
> 
> People in another thread were having problems with their x102s not turning on. Anyone here with that problem?
> 
> 
> I hope it's not something inherently wrong with the glasses, and only operator error. Perhaps they haven't found the on/off switch on the right side temple area?



I got my x102's direct from Xpand on 6/11, and they worked flawlessly right out of the box. I tried changing batteries as I had seen people complain about the process, and frankly I found it to be pretty easy. The right temple is an on "switch" but it doesn't turn off that way.


----------



## finallyabigtv

Does anyone have the Viewsonic DLP glasses yet ? I think the glasses will be cheaper than the X-102,but how about quality and the battery changing? Since the glasses are DLP link they should work with the WD-65C9;yes?


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *finallyabigtv* /forum/post/18796132
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the Viewsonic DLP glasses yet ? I think the glasses will be cheaper than the X-102,but how about quality and the battery changing? Since the glasses are DLP link they should work with the WD-65C9;yes?



Can't comment on the quality, but any glasses that support DLP-Link should absolutely work with the 65C9.


----------



## lxicon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *finallyabigtv* /forum/post/18796132
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the Viewsonic DLP glasses yet ? I think the glasses will be cheaper than the X-102,but how about quality and the battery changing? Since the glasses are DLP link they should work with the WD-65C9;yes?



i ordered them from amazon (i like Viewsonic as a brand, and i like the standard CR2032 batteries). they are not currently in stock. it says they will ship when available, so i'll update here when i eventually get my hands on them.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *finallyabigtv* /forum/post/18796132
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the Viewsonic DLP glasses yet ? I think the glasses will be cheaper than the X-102,but how about quality and the battery changing? Since the glasses are DLP link they should work with the WD-65C9;yes?



My last update I got from amazon. Not sure if this still holds true. I'm still waiting.


Hello from Amazon.com.


We now have delivery date(s) for the order you placed on April 28 2010 (Order# xxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx):


"ViewSonic PGD-150 Active Stereographic 3D Shutter Glasses for ViewSonic DLP Link 120 Hz/3D Ready Projectors, Black"

Estimated arrival date: June 03 2010 - June 21 2010


----------



## Lumpy

Availability was the reason I passed on the Viewsonics. According to the online manual they'll work with any DLP-Link front or rear projector.

http://www.viewsonic.com/assets/070/15953.pdf 


Page 4.


I ended up getting XpanD mostly because they are pretty highly regarded.


----------



## cyberized

I received my NEW XpanD 102's today in the mail........have not tried them to watch anything yet - BUT - they feel comfortable enough over my glasses [HOORAY].

ONE question for 102 Owners.....I noticed when I turned them on and they went dark.....there were alot of little reddish speckles especially in the Right lense....some but not near as many in the Left lense. When I would put thek on though I could not see those speckles.

Is this "normal" or are they malfunctioning?


TKS michael


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18815374
> 
> 
> I received my NEW XpanD 102's today in the mail........have not tried them to watch anything yet - BUT - they feel comfortable enough over my glasses [HOORAY].
> 
> ONE question for 102 Owners.....I noticed when I turned them on and they went dark....*the.re were alot of little reddish speckles especially in the Right lense....some but not near as many in the Left lense. When I would put thek on though I could not see those speckles.*
> 
> Is this "normal" or are they malfunctioning?
> 
> 
> TKS michael



I noticed those on mine too when just holding them in my hands and looking at the lenses (though I thought they were more orange than red), but when I wore them I couldn't see them, and they didn't seem to affect the game I was playing.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lumpy* /forum/post/18796596
> 
> 
> Availability was the reason I passed on the Viewsonics. According to the online manual they'll work with any DLP-Link front or rear projector.



For real, I'm getting to the point that every time I hear a email notification come in on my phone I hope it's an order update with a ship date. I'm almost to the point of canceling and getting some X102's.


----------



## Dintkin

I too am having problems with the XpanD 102's. Both are ver. 1 and from different vendors. I have a Mits. 65835 and sit about 7 feet away. both pairs act the same, lose sync and flutter all the time. The only time they work is when i sit 3 feet from the screen.


I can see why Mits went with the IR emitter for their starter pack.


oh and did everyone's glasses come with the battery installed? because both pairs I have had the batteries installed already. Just wondering if i received a returned product.


Thanks


Dan


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18819074
> 
> 
> I too am having problems with the XpanD 102's. Both are ver. 1 and from different vendors. I have a Mits. 65835 and sit about 7 feet away. both pairs act the same, lose sync and flutter all the time. The only time they work is when i sit 3 feet from the screen.
> 
> 
> I can see why Mits went with the IR emitter for their starter pack.
> 
> 
> oh and did everyone's glasses come with the battery installed? because both pairs I have had the batteries installed already. Just wondering if i received a returned product.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Dan




Yes, mine came with the batteries installed and sadly They do not work very well, just as you describe lots of fluttering and losing sync. I really feel ripped off, close to 300 dollars for garbage! (2 pair)


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18819132
> 
> 
> Yes, mine came with the batteries installed and sadly They do not work very well, just as you describe lots of fluttering and losing sync. I really feel ripped off, close to 300 dollars for garbage! (2 pair)



Have you told this to Xpand? I have a replacement pair arriving today for my defective pair. The defective pair is sitting on my coffee table right now. They sent me out a new pair before I had to return them.


My defective pair did arrive with the battery installed while my good pair did not. That may not have any significance though.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18819074
> 
> 
> I too am having problems with the XpanD 102's. Both are ver. 1 and from different vendors. I have a Mits. 65835 and sit about 7 feet away. both pairs act the same, lose sync and flutter all the time. The only time they work is when i sit 3 feet from the screen.
> 
> 
> I can see why Mits went with the IR emitter for their starter pack.
> 
> 
> oh and did everyone's glasses come with the battery installed? because both pairs I have had the batteries installed already. Just wondering if i received a returned product.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Dan




Hi Dan,


You may already be aware, but CFL lights(especially overhead lighting) cause the sync/flicker problems you mention with DLP-Link glasses. But then again you may just have a bad pair.


----------



## Paul S Penny

I have the new x102's and they work perfectly with my Samsung HL67A750 - never lose sync while watching from 15-20 feet away.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18819180
> 
> 
> Have you told this to Xpand? I have a replacement pair arriving today for my defective pair. The defective pair is sitting on my coffee table right now. They sent me out a new pair before I had to return them.
> 
> 
> My defective pair did arrive with the battery installed while my good pair did not. That may not have any significance though.



No actually I have not, I ordered through tru 3D, maybe I should contact them. The way they arrived everything just looked so suspect, no documentaion just loosely wrapped up in bubble wrap with a couple replacement batteries and keys flopping around on the bottom of the box. I just sort of figured it was hopeless, you now give me a little hope. Heck I don't even think I ever received an email confirmation with and order number.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18819234
> 
> 
> No actually I have not, I ordered through tru 3D, maybe I should contact them. The way they arrived everything just looked so suspect, no documentaion just loosely wrapped up in bubble wrap with a couple replacement batteries and keys flopping around on the bottom of the box. I just sort of figured it was hopeless, you now give me a little hope. Heck I don't even think I ever received an email confirmation with and order number.



I know what you mean. Mine arrived packaged exactly as you described but I ordered from Xpand. I didn't know they had shipped until I saw the box at my door. I found the user guide pdf on tru3d's website. Unless I missed it, Xpand doesn't have the user guide on their website.


I'm not sure if I am getting different treatment because they know I ordered from Xpand, but they didn't ask for my invoice number or anything, just sent out a new pair based on the problem I described in my email.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18819424
> 
> 
> I know what you mean. Mine arrived packaged exactly as you described but I ordered from Xpand. I didn't know they had shipped until I saw the box at my door. I found the user guide pdf on tru3d's website. Unless I missed it, Xpand doesn't have the user guide on their website.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if I am getting different treatment because they know I ordered from Xpand, but they didn't ask for my invoice number or anything, just sent out a new pair based on the problem I described in my email.



I was looking for a customer service number or email address on their web sight but I could not find one. How did you contact them?


----------



## steelers1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18819520
> 
> 
> I was looking for a customer service number or email address on their web sight but I could not find one. How did you contact them?



here is xpand phone#1-310-309-6705 office manager# 1-310-309-6725 true 3d dont have there phone# up on there sight they since there is overwelmed with phone calls they took it off sight for now to train people. but here is how to get hold of tech support. [email protected] hope this helpes good luck


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18819520
> 
> 
> I was looking for a customer service number or email address on their web sight but I could not find one. How did you contact them?



I emailed Rorey at [email protected] . She apparently handles the orders and returns of these glasses. She asked for my address and then sent out a pair right away. Calling the main number steelers1 mentioned should work as well.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18819880
> 
> 
> I emailed Rorey at [email protected] . She apparently handles the orders and returns of these glasses. She asked for my address and then sent out a pair right away. Calling the main number steelers1 mentioned should work as well.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steelers1* /forum/post/18819828
> 
> 
> here is xpand phone#1-310-309-6705 office manager# 1-310-309-6725 true 3d dont have there phone# up on there sight they since there is overwelmed with phone calls they took it off sight for now to train people. but here is how to get hold of tech support. [email protected] hope this helpes good luck




Thanks guys, I was actually able to get a hold of someone at tru3D. It appears xpand is having some what of a mini recall with one of their recent batches of glasses, some sort of a software issue. Although it looks like it may take a couple weeks to resolve my issue, tru3D said they would issue me new glasses as soon as they receive their next shipment. So things are looking up.


----------



## cyberized

I used my NEW 102's for the first time last night.....and I too noticed periodic flickering and loss of sync occasionally [would go from bighter to darker - then back again]........did not know, still don't.....whether this is 'normal" OR maybe another DVD might be different????

Also - HATE to admit this BUT truthfully I was not all that impressed with the 2D to 3D "effect" or LACK of effect I should say. I think possibly that once again I have thrown more good money after bad.

I bought mine from Proadvantage on line e-tailer.....already deleted receipt etc.....looks like I should probably return these if this is not normal.???


PS - I too thought this was ODD - one battery was already installed.


TKS mchael


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18821353
> 
> 
> I used my NEW 102's for the first time last night.....and I too noticed periodic flickering and loss of sync occasionally [would go from bighter to darker - then back again]........did not know, still don't.....whether this is 'normal" OR maybe another DVD might be different????
> 
> Also - HATE to admit this BUT truthfully I was not all that impressed with the 2D to 3D "effect" or LACK of effect I should say. I think possibly that once again I have thrown more good money after bad.
> 
> I bought mine from Proadvantage on line e-tailer.....already deleted receipt etc.....looks like I should probably return these if this is not normal.???
> 
> 
> PS - I too thought this was ODD - one battery was already installed.
> 
> 
> TKS mchael



What equipment do you have besides the x102s?


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18819184
> 
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> 
> You may already be aware, but CFL lights(especially overhead lighting) cause the sync/flicker problems you mention with DLP-Link glasses. But then again you may just have a bad pair.



Yes i did turn off all the CFL's, even tried turning off the Direct TV Box and covering up my wifes lighted Christ bust (dont tell her) to no avail.


I love the picture that is produced but wish i could sit back in the chair.


I did trty to contact them today and was told i need to contact the people who i bought it through. she did tell me that at first they didnt install the batteries. now they do after testing if the battery life was shortened with them installed.


I will rtry the contact info above Friday morning.


Thank You all who replied.


Dan


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18822493
> 
> 
> Yes i did turn off all the CFL's, even tried turning off the Direct TV Box and covering up my wifes lighted Christ bust (dont tell her) to no avail.
> 
> 
> I love the picture that is produced but wish i could sit back in the chair.
> 
> 
> I did trty to contact them today and was told i need to contact the people who i bought it through. she did tell me that at first they didnt install the batteries.
> 
> 
> Dan



What is your model # they are telling all their partners they will rma any new glasses that end with B and I think C.


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18822580
> 
> 
> What is your model # they are telling all their partners they will rma any new glasses that end with B and I think C.



Martinefski they are both X102SUD's. I will try to E-Mail Rorey the model numbers and serials to see if i can get replacements.


Thank You


Dan


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18819180
> 
> 
> I have a replacement pair arriving today for my defective pair. The defective pair is sitting on my coffee table right now. They sent me out a new pair before I had to return them.



Did you happen to get your replacement pair? If so how are they working for you and also what is the model number? I was told the model # with the software issue fixed ended in SUD.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18823536
> 
> 
> Martinefski they are both X102SUD's. I will try to E-Mail Rorey the model numbers and serials to see if i can get replacements.
> 
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> Dan



Darn, I was told by Xpand that your model# is the fixed version. I was told they did extensive testing and this version fixed the syncing problems caused by a software issue, but if the range ends up being only 3 feet like what you are seeing this is not all that good of a fix either.










Maybe you have already tried this? But I read somewhere if you are having syncing problems try to turn off any processing you may have going on, like deep color or darkfield.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18823701
> 
> 
> Did you happen to get your replacement pair? If so how are they working for you and also what is the model number? I was told the model # with the software issue fixed ended in SUD.



Actually my glasses did not arrive yesterday. I’ve been told they should be here today and to call if they aren’t. My bad pair is X102SUBB while the good pair is X102SUD. I’ll update later today or tomorrow with the model# of the new pair once I try them out.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18823835
> 
> 
> Actually my glasses did not arrive yesterday. I've been told they should be here today and to call if they aren't. My bad pair is X102SUBB while the good pair is X102SUD. I'll update later today or tomorrow with the model# of the new pair once I try them out.



Well this could be a good sign. My defective pairs are both x102SUBB.


----------



## cyberized




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18822081
> 
> 
> What equipment do you have besides the x102s?



I am using the X102SUD's on a Samsung 61A750 via an HTPC with a Pioneer 7.1 AVR in between......graphics card is a ATI 5750 w 1GB Memory.....I am initially using these to watch 2D to 3D DVD with TMT3 3D Plugin.


I e-mailed XpanD to tell them about my iital flickering and going out of synch and asked if it might be battery related and that the battery was already in my glasses - which I thought ODD. The reply was that they do ship with the battery installed and that I should try the other battery.....and IF it ids not better then to RMA them to my retailer. IF all is OK - then they would replace that first battery.


Last nights test w the other battery was alot better and possibly "normal" - I have no way of knowing what that is.....I did notice a little bit of flickering going on sometimes - nothing like the first use of them though. Once again, I was under whelmed with the "3D" effect of "Rambo" and last night's "Precious". I ended up turning OFF the 3D totally and watching it in 2D with the simHD ON....enjoyed it more than 3D and 102's blinking or not!


PS - - - - anyone else here with these 102"s that you feel are working GREAT for you - do you sometimes notice abit of flickering or are yours always and totally SMOOTH???


TKS michael


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18825057
> 
> 
> I am using the X102SUD's ...anyone else here with these 102"s that you feel are working GREAT for you - do you sometimes notice abit of flickering or are yours always and totally SMOOTH???
> 
> 
> TKS michael



I am using the X102SUD's. Totally smooth. The only flicker I can discern is on the LCD readouts of my audio receiver and cable box, and even that is slight. All of my lighting is CFL, and I have not noticed any effect from that either, though I usually watch with only one light on, about 45 degrees off axis.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18823885
> 
> 
> Well this could be a good sign. My defective pairs are both x102SUBB.



I received a pair of X102SUD's. Tested them with a 3D game and some videos, no problems at all.


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18823717
> 
> 
> Darn, I was told by Xpand that your model# is the fixed version. I was told they did extensive testing and this version fixed the syncing problems caused by a software issue, but if the range ends up being only 3 feet like what you are seeing this is not all that good of a fix either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you have already tried this? But I read somewhere if you are having syncing problems try to turn off any processing you may have going on, like deep color or darkfield.



Well I called Rorey today and she sent 2 new pairs out for me. she was puzzled with my model #'s because they have had no trouble with that version.


The only processing I have on the TV is film mode is on. I have tried it off and the lamp mode on bright.


I am amazed by Expand's customer service. only one other time a company has sent me a replacement for something, but they charged me for it and gave me a refund when they received the return. Expand never asked for any credit card info and just sent the replacements with only my model , seral numbers, name and address for my info. Rorey was the best!


Thanks Again


Dan


----------



## jjknatl

I have the SUD model viewing a 65C9 with a Panny 300 source. smooth most of the time.


However, I have noticed a subtle vertical prism effect (i.e., color bands of the rainbow) that is mostly visible on each side of the screen less than a foot from the edge. It is not visible until I put on the glasses so I suspect it is the glasses and not the TV or source. I don't think this is the typical DLP rainbow which I have never seen before in 2D. I wear regular glasses which include anti-glare coatings so I thought that might be the cause, but my wife wears contact lenses and noticed it as well. I haven't tried my contacts yet to compare the severity.


Anyone notice this prism effect? Wondering if I have stumbled upon some other x102 problem.


----------



## jjknatl

by the way, I was told recently by someone at Xpand that the x102 frame color wil be switching to blue soon.


----------



## Dintkin

Here is a quick update on my 102 problems..well not the 102's problem but my sets lamp. I checked the lamp life and it was at 6,000 hours. put my replacement in and wow what a difference in brightness. I cant believe i never noticed the tv getting that dim.


I put cloudy with a chance of meatballs in and just 1 or 2 sync issues. a vast improvement.


So if anybody has sync issues and an old lamp try to put a new one in.


I guess i need to apologize to Rorey and refund their shipping costs for the new sets.


jjknatl i do notice the prism effect. mostly in lighter scenes. I don't wear glasses.


----------



## mhetman

My Xpan 102's have worked flawlessly so far but I have only used them to watch the Panasonic demo disk and not a full movie yet. I see no flickering just a great 3D effect with my Samsung DLP checkerboard setup.


----------



## DenisG

Ok, just got my X102's today. First thought was that I wasn't thrilled about every thing flopping around inside the box. They could have packed them better. After opening my second thought was man these are huge. My head isn't very big, so it would be nice if they were a little smaller.

Since it's still a bit bright in the house, I put on the Panasonic 3D demo disk to try out. I'll put on a movie later this evening when it's nice and dark, or darker.

After a little ware time I found myself wishing they had some kind a rubber nose piece for a little more comfort instead of the hard plastic on my nose. I can see this being a pain on long movies.

Since my head isn't very big I found it a bit annoying that I could see reflections of stuff behind me off the very left and right of the inside of the lenses.

Also I'm looking at them and can't tell if they are on or off. It was easy to tell they were working running the demo 3D BD, but it's not like there is an on off light or button, so I just put it back in the box when I was done.


----------



## destiny 21

just got my 102 glasses today they havexpand written on the side not just an x like in earlier model also the number on the inside sticker says 102suaa . i think these are the newer models


----------



## ChrisHawks

I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisHawks* /forum/post/18839072
> 
> 
> I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.



My major concern with the Mits/Samsung style glasses is that they don't look like they'd block much light from the sides. The Xpand glasses do a nice job with this.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisHawks* /forum/post/18839072
> 
> 
> I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.



Has anyone confirmed that x102's work when an emitter is active? Thought I read a post that suggested the x102 loses sync in that situation.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18841131
> 
> 
> Has anyone confirmed that x102's work when an emitter is active? Thought I read a post that suggested the x102 loses sync in that situation.



They work for me with an external emitter active.


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18842093
> 
> 
> They work for me with an external emitter active.



Taz, what is your setup? Are you using the 3D TMT Plugin, Panasonic BDT350 or both systems? I have both of these and I can only get the BDT350 to work well as a checkerboard output for my system. When I use the TMT/3D Plugin with my Intel G45 graphics, my 3d fails even though the DLP link with the 102's is established and the Samsung 3D effect is enabled just fine.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18842696
> 
> 
> Taz, what is your setup? Are you using the 3D TMT Plugin, Panasonic BDT350 or both systems? I have both of these and I can only get the BDT350 to work well as a checkerboard output for my system. When I use the TMT/3D Plugin with my Intel G45 graphics, my 3d fails even though the DLP link with the 102's is established and the Samsung 3D effect is enabled just fine.



I have the TMT setup, but can't get it to work with 3D Blu-Rays. I'm thinking it's because my graphics card isn't up to par (ATI HD2900XT), thought technically, if I'm using CPU decoding only, it should work. 3D file playback works fine with TMT, just not 3D Blu-Ray.


----------



## walford

What program/driver are you using to send the Checkerboard content from the TMT 3D plug in over HDMI to your TV?


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18843040
> 
> 
> I have the TMT setup, but can't get it to work with 3D Blu-Rays. I'm thinking it's because my graphics card isn't up to par (ATI HD2900XT), thought technically, if I'm using CPU decoding only, it should work. 3D file playback works fine with TMT, just not 3D Blu-Ray.



When you say file play back works, is this from a ripped Blu-Ray 3D DVD? I did try a ripped version of my purchased "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" but it failed in the same way as playing it from the Blu-ray DVD player. What I did think was interesting is it does a great job of creating anaglyph version of the 3D Blu-Ray but not checkerboard.


As I mentioned in another post, I do have a Diamond 5850 graphic board sitting in its box waiting to be installed. The holdup is making room for the board which will require some rearranging of my hd's. Once I get the ambition, I may try that out.


I was hoping some one else using Intel G45 graphics was successful with the 3D Plugin since it is on the list of working graphics chips. So far no one has reported any success.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18826632
> 
> 
> I received a pair of X102SUD's. Tested them with a 3D game and some videos, no problems at all.



After further testing I retract my statement. Once again this substitute pair loses sync during dark scenes, just not as bad as the pair it replaced. I tested out some 3D videos from my PC. The replacement pair will consistently lose sync when a very dim image is on screen such as a small amount of white text on a black background. My original pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I repeated this test several times to ensure it wasn't a fluke. I now have 3 pairs of X102's with varying degrees of performance; one pair never loses sync, the second pair constantly loses sync during any dim scene, the third pair loses sync only during very dim scenes as mentioned above. This is starting to piss me off, I would like a total of 4 pairs of glasses but can't imagine going through this crap to find 4 fully working pairs. I only have a 3 month old set and I can't imagine the problems that I'll run into once the bulb starts dimming. I think I'll be going the emitter route and get the starter pack from Mitsubishi.


Something to note is that this latest dysfunctional pair will not lose sync when viewing avatar the game or invincible tiger because (I presume) these games don't get dim enough. I wonder if a bunch of DLP owners have tested only these games for 3D performance and will be disappointed with their X102's once more content is available.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18843050
> 
> 
> What program/driver are you using to send the Checkerboard content from the TMT 3D plug in over HDMI to your TV?



Not sure I understand your question. The Arcsoft 3D plug-in basically turns TMT into "Stereoscopic Player", plus with 3D BD support. I can play a 3D file in TMT and it works just like playing it in Stereoscopic Player.


The problem is playing a 3D BD disc. It plays in 2D mode just fine, but if I try 3D mode, the audio is fine, but just a black screen for video.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18843414
> 
> 
> When you say file play back works, is this from a ripped Blu-Ray 3D DVD?



No, not file playback from a 3D BD, but an actual SbS or Top/Bottom file I've downloaded. Like a movie trailer or demo.


----------



## walford

AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV

See the following link and note at the very bottom that needs a program from a company such as ArcSoft to supply it with the 3D content.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-blu-ray.html


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18846648
> 
> 
> AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV
> 
> See the following link and note at the very bottom that needs a program from a company such as ArcSoft to supply it with the 3D content.
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-blu-ray.html



No, you don't need that at all. That would basically say that TMT w/3D requires nvidia hardware, which isn't true. There are several with ATI cards that have it working now, albeit the 5000 series cards.


It still doesn't make sense, since the TMT software plays 3D media files just fine, and it looks great, just not 3D BD.


I got a response from Jason (whom works for Arcsoft) over on their forums. He basically said that the minimum requirements for ATI users are the 4000 series of cards, and why it doesn't work on cards below that isn't important. I like Jason, he helps out a lot of people (even on this site), but from a curious standpoint, I didn't care for that answer.


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18844078
> 
> 
> After further testing I retract my statement. Once again this substitute pair loses sync during dark scenes, just not as bad as the pair it replaced. I tested out some 3D videos from my PC. The replacement pair will consistently lose sync when a very dim image is on screen such as a small amount of white text on a black background. My original pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I repeated this test several times to ensure it wasn't a fluke. I now have 3 pairs of X102's with varying degrees of performance; one pair never loses sync, the second pair constantly loses sync during any dim scene, the third pair loses sync only during very dim scenes as mentioned above. This is starting to piss me off, I would like a total of 4 pairs of glasses but can't imagine going through this crap to find 4 fully working pairs. I only have a 3 month old set and I can't imagine the problems that I'll run into once the bulb starts dimming. I think I'll be going the emitter route and get the starter pack from Mitsubishi.
> 
> 
> Something to note is that this latest dysfunctional pair will not lose sync when viewing avatar the game or invincible tiger because (I presume) these games don't get dim enough. I wonder if a bunch of DLP owners have tested only these games for 3D performance and will be disappointed with their X102's once more content is available.



I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.


I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18849559
> 
> 
> I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.
> 
> 
> I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.



I'm not asking too much am I? I'm new to 3D but I feel that if these glasses were to lose sync "only" a couple of during a movie that is not acceptable. When it happens it's very distracting and kills the immersive experience.


These glasses may work fine in a movie theater environment but it seems that dlp-link may not be robust enough to handle the wide range of home setups. In my case I had almost all the lights off, no CFL's and was sitting only slightly off center about 12 feet back.


I did look for the rainbow effect that has been mentioned but fortunately my pairs don't seem to have that problem.


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18846033
> 
> 
> No, not file playback from a 3D BD, but an actual SbS or Top/Bottom file I've downloaded. Like a movie trailer or demo.



Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18849777
> 
> 
> Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.



This player works for me on my Mitz DLP:

http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/index_en.aspx


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18849777
> 
> 
> Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.



That is very odd, because clips play back perfectly for me in TMT and Stereoscopic Player. Try playing the clips in Stereoscopic Player, this will help nail down your issue. The trial version is available in the post directly above mine.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18849559
> 
> 
> I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.
> 
> 
> I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.



I have experimented to try and figure out the cause of the rainbow effect. I believe it is the interaction of the x102 with the DLP process. I've noted that the rainbow doesn't move on screen when you move closer to the TV and if you get close enough, far too close to actually watch TV, the rainbow is outside your field of view. So, it appears the rainbow shows up at a specific place on the screen which leads me to believe it is partially the DLP process to blame.


Also, the rainbow shows up anytime the glasses are on, regardless of source. Blocking the DLP-link receiver for a few minutes to force the glasses off seemed to cause the rainbow to gradually fade rather than disappear immediately, so I think it is more a result of the liquid crystal lens coupled with the DLP process rather than the shuttering action itself. I'm hoping that liquid crystal lenses of other glasses do not produce this effect as it is a major distraction.


Does anyone with non-DLP link shutter glasses see a prism/rainbow effect?


dintkin and bcterp, which DLP set do you have and which x102 do you have? the rainbow may be dependent upon either or both models. I have the Mits C9 and the SUD.


Regarding the glasses losing sync, one day the grand canyon raft scene works fine, the next day it loses sync. I've tried to reproduce conditions to force loss of sync on the good days and can't make it happen. Also, I've notced that the glasses maintain sync for about 5-6 seconds after losing the DLP-Link signal. So the initial scene causing the glasses to lose sync is likely a few seconds before sync is lost during the raft scene, possibly the reverse fly-over scene which is actually a fairly bright scene. Can a screen that is too bright, or at least too bright in certain areas of the screen, possibly interfere with dlp-link sync?


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18848812
> 
> 
> No, you don't need that at all. That would basically say that TMT w/3D requires nvidia hardware, which isn't true. There are several with ATI cards that have it working now, albeit the 5000 series cards.
> 
> 
> It still doesn't make sense, since the TMT software plays 3D media files just fine, and it looks great, just not 3D BD.
> 
> 
> I got a response from Jason (whom works for Arcsoft) over on their forums. He basically said that the minimum requirements for ATI users are the 4000 series of cards, and why it doesn't work on cards below that isn't important. I like Jason, he helps out a lot of people (even on this site), but from a curious standpoint, I didn't care for that answer.



I stated "AFAIK you need a program *like* the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV"


Thank you for pointing out that ATI also has as solution for user's with 4000 or higher series cards.


Mhetman's problem is that he currently using a 2900 series ATI card.


----------



## walford

About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.


----------



## GregK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18851475
> 
> 
> About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.



A lot of this depends on the Colorwheel speed. Most of the "business grade" 3-D DLP models appear to be using the slower 2X mode, while the home theater 2D models use 4X or, in some cases 6X, speeds.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18851475
> 
> 
> About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.



It may be a DLP issue, period. But, I see the rainbow effect any time the glasses are turned on, even for 2D content. Also, I believe I see it even when the glasses are recently turned off while the lenses are slowly returning to green and no longer shuttering. I never see a rainbow when not wearing the glasses and neither does my wife. However, my wife also sees the rainbow with the glasses on. I'll try the viewsonics and some emitter glasses before I give up.


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18851223
> 
> 
> I have experimented to try and figure out the cause of the rainbow effect. I believe it is the interaction of the x102 with the DLP process. I've noted that the rainbow doesn't move on screen when you move closer to the TV and if you get close enough, far too close to actually watch TV, the rainbow is outside your field of view. So, it appears the rainbow shows up at a specific place on the screen which leads me to believe it is partially the DLP process to blame.
> 
> 
> Also, the rainbow shows up anytime the glasses are on, regardless of source. Blocking the DLP-link receiver for a few minutes to force the glasses off seemed to cause the rainbow to gradually fade rather than disappear immediately, so I think it is more a result of the liquid crystal lens coupled with the DLP process rather than the shuttering action itself. I'm hoping that liquid crystal lenses of other glasses do not produce this effect as it is a major distraction.
> 
> 
> Does anyone with non-DLP link shutter glasses see a prism/rainbow effect?
> 
> 
> dintkin and bcterp, which DLP set do you have and which x102 do you have? the rainbow may be dependent upon either or both models. I have the Mits C9 and the SUD.
> 
> 
> Regarding the glasses losing sync, one day the grand canyon raft scene works fine, the next day it loses sync. I've tried to reproduce conditions to force loss of sync on the good days and can't make it happen. Also, I've notced that the glasses maintain sync for about 5-6 seconds after losing the DLP-Link signal. So the initial scene causing the glasses to lose sync is likely a few seconds before sync is lost during the raft scene, possibly the reverse fly-over scene which is actually a fairly bright scene. Can a screen that is too bright, or at least too bright in certain areas of the screen, possibly interfere with dlp-link sync?



I have 4 102SUD's right now and all show the rainbow. my set is a Mits 65835. I was going to try to clean off the lower mirror(there is no lower mirror) just for kicks thinking it might be that, I have had the set for about 2 years so it might be a bit dirty.


I will have to move closer to the screen to see what that does.


Thank You


Dan


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18851445
> 
> 
> I stated "AFAIK you need a program *like* the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV"
> 
> 
> Thank you for pointing out that ATI also has as solution for user's with 4000 or higher series cards.
> 
> 
> Mhetman's problem is that he currently using a 2900 series ATI card.



Actually, I'm the one using the 2900 series card, which is why I can't play 3D BDs, so I think anyway.


Mhetman has an onboard G45, which is in the minimum requirements. I think he should try his 5000-series ATI card.


----------



## jjknatl

Was able to capture the rainbow in a photo. Would post but local uploads appear to be disabled.


----------



## pmalter0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregK* /forum/post/18851550
> 
> 
> A lot of this depends on the Colorwheel speed. Most of the "business grade" 3-D DLP models appear to be using the slower 2X mode, while the home theater 2D models use 4X or, in some cases 6X, speeds.



What is "business grade" as opposed to "home theater."


----------



## GregK

Business Grade (aka: classroom) typically refers to projectors that are optimized more towards a brighter image vs tweaking for optimal contrast. (This is desired for projecting large images in less than ideal lighting situations.) This typically done by including a white segment in the DLP colorwheel.


Colorwheel speeds also tend to be lower in classroom/business grade projectors when compared to home theater optimized projectors. A 2X speed colorwheel tends to be the norm for business grade models while 4X (and on occasion 6X) is the norm for home theater projectors.

The slower the colorwheel speed, the more likely one will see "rainbow" artifacts. To what degree varies from person to person.


To make matters more confusing, some manufacturers often neglect to list the colorwheel speed, leaving one to guess or rely on second hand testing to find out. Andrew Woods, who chairs the SD&A, has also had trouble getting colorwheel speeds. http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html 


I've had luck on occasion from the projector centeral website, but all of the specs for Viewsonics rarely are complete.


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18850837
> 
> 
> That is very odd, because clips play back perfectly for me in TMT and Stereoscopic Player. Try playing the clips in Stereoscopic Player, this will help nail down your issue. The trial version is available in the post directly above mine.



Downloaded the trial version and I get exactly the same results. Must be an incompatibility with Intel G45 Graphics.


----------



## jjknatl

Anyone have experience with the optoma zd101 glasses?


----------



## finallyabigtv

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...242821&page=25 


THE FIRST STARTER PACK REVIEW! Check out the last page about the glasses.


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18852843
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm the one using the 2900 series card, which is why I can't play 3D BDs, so I think anyway.
> 
> 
> Mhetman has an onboard G45, which is in the minimum requirements. I think he should try his 5000-series ATI card.



Taz, are you going directly to the Samsung for video through the HDMI port? I am going through my Denon 3808 receiver. Maybe that is my problem since the receiver is 1.3 and doesn't have the bandwidth.


----------



## walford

The bandwidth required for standard HD resolutions such as 1080i or 1080p is almost exactly the same as that required for the HDMI 1.4a 3D resolutions.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18871190
> 
> 
> Taz, are you going directly to the Samsung for video through the HDMI port? I am going through my Denon 3808 receiver. Maybe that is my problem since the receiver is 1.3 and doesn't have the bandwidth.



Just tried PowerDVD 10 with the Mark II release. Works perfect! I don't know why TMT doesn't work, but PDVD does.


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18871638
> 
> 
> Just tried PowerDVD 10 with the Mark II release. Works perfect! I don't know why TMT doesn't work, but PDVD does.



I tried PowerDVD 10 Mark II release as well but it barely runs when I insert a 3D Bluray. I get no picture and the sound comes on in spurts. If I put a standard BluRay in it plays fine. I turned off graphic acceleration but no difference. I have plenty of cpu power and memory but the Intel G45 graphics just doesn't do it despite it being listed as supported. I may need a new driver.


When I run the Cyberlink 3D Advisor application to determine if my setup can do 3D it passes on every item but the display. It points to my Denon Receiver as the display, doesn't see the Samsung and it fails the 3D test. That was the reason behind my question about 1.3 HDMI bandwidth or the inability for the receiver to pass the 3D to the Samsung.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18872482
> 
> 
> I tried PowerDVD 10 Mark II release as well but it barely runs when I insert a 3D Bluray. I get no picture and the sound comes on in spurts. If I put a standard BluRay in it plays fine. I turned off graphic acceleration but no difference. I have plenty of cpu power and memory but the Intel G45 graphics just doesn't do it despite it being listed as supported. I may need a new driver.
> 
> 
> When I run the Cyberlink 3D Advisor application to determine if my setup can do 3D it passes on every item but the display. It points to my Denon Receiver as the display, doesn't see the Samsung and it fails the 3D test. That was the reason behind my question about 1.3 HDMI bandwidth or the inability for the receiver to pass the 3D to the Samsung.



My video card is connected directly to my display via HDMI.


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhetman* /forum/post/18872482
> 
> 
> . I have plenty of cpu power and memory but the Intel G45 graphics just doesn't do it despite it being listed as supported. I may need a new driver.
> 
> .



Please provide the link that says your Intel graphics chip on your MOBO is supported?


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18875325
> 
> 
> Please provide the link that says your Intel graphics chip on your MOBO is supported?



For TMT:
http://www.arcsoft.com/estore/softwa...=Sim3D#submenu 


For PDVD:
http://www.cyberlink.com/products/po...nts_en_US.html


----------



## walford

Do you have the required Intel driver installed?

http://www.cyberlink.com/products/po...ort_en_US.html


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18854958
> 
> 
> Was able to capture the rainbow in a photo. Would post but local uploads appear to be disabled.



I can confirm that I can see vertical rainbows on my X102's and Mitz DLP. They are very faint and only on a white background. They aren't there when not looking through the glasses.


----------



## jjknatl

bcterp, are your x102s the SUD model?


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18878020
> 
> 
> bcterp, are your x102s the SUD model?



They are SUD, I have several pairs of SUD's and it is visible on all. I have never seen the DLP rainbow effect that some people can apparently see so I don't think that this is the same issue. It is faint enough that I don't mind much....yet.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18878054
> 
> 
> They are SUD, I have several pairs of SUD's and it is visible on all. I have never seen the DLP rainbow effect that some people can apparently see so I don't think that this is the same issue. It is faint enough that I don't mind much....yet.



I agree about it not being the DLP rainbow, especially considering it is a statically positioned rainbow that I can capture in a photo taken through the X102 lens. I have optoma glasses on order and will post whether I see rainbows or not with those.


Interestingly, each person who has seen the rainbow has the SUD model, so maybe there is a correlation there.


----------



## cyberized

Been waiting anxiously for Bit Cauldron to announce when they will be bringing their glasses to market......well SEE this LINK: http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=8...d&e=60f5ecd832 


Was NOT what I anticipated and hoped for - NOT DLP and way too EXPENSIVE for me.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18878566
> 
> 
> Been waiting anxiously for Bit Cauldron to announce when they will be bringing their glasses to market......well SEE this LINK: http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=8...d&e=60f5ecd832
> 
> 
> Was NOT what I anticipated and hoped for - NOT DLP and way too EXPENSIVE for me.



I wonder about the reliability of the 2.4Ghz connection due to so many other household devices (including those from neighboring homes as well) using that same frequency band. My Wi-Fi speed already suffers from that issue regardless of the Wi-Fi channel I select.


----------



## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18878696
> 
> 
> I wonder about the reliability of the 2.4Ghz connection due to so many other household devices (including those from neighboring homes as well) using that same frequency band. My Wi-Fi speed already suffers from that issue regardless of the Wi-Fi channel I select.




Bit Cauldron uses ZigBee communication protocol. It can be either 915Mz or 2.4Gz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee


----------



## mhetman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18876381
> 
> 
> Do you have the required Intel driver installed?
> 
> http://www.cyberlink.com/products/po...ort_en_US.html



Installed the latest drivers and that did the trick. Now I am able to get both the TMT 3D Plugin as well as the PowerDVD 3D system to work perfectly. It passes through my Denon Receiver without any video issues.


Anyone using the Intel G45 Graphics chips can download the same driver at this link:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sear...ord=%22G45%22#


----------



## danzio2020

Using the Xpand X102 - X102SUAA (Appears to be V2 as has the slots in the ear-piece) I get a static rainbow in 3D mode on the Right side of my Sammy HLT6189S.


Quick Pros and Cons of Xpand X102 for those who want to purchase:


-No Emitter

-Block side light (Covered unlike Panasonic 3D glasses)

-Sync Well some flicker during scenes and loss of sync on extremely dark scenes.

-Heavy and definitely not for children with smaller heads as they will fall off.

-Far superior build quality compared to Panasonic and Samsung.

-Proprietary Batteries = Turn Off.

-Take most of the red tint out on Sammy DLP.


I have tried the Nvidia glasses but was doing a half assed setup with my laptop (HTPC has ATI Card) being the host of the emitter while the TV was playing Avatar on the xbox. I will be picking up an Nvision Kit as well as a GTX so I can get a full comparison of the two and if I see the rainbow with the NVidia Glasses. I am very interested to hear what people have to say about the Optoma and Viewsonic glasses.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18881786
> 
> 
> -Sync Well some flicker during scenes and loss of sync on extremely dark scenes.



I notice this as well with my X102SUD's. In my opinion this means that they don't sync well. Does anything like this occur with an emitter based setup? Good review, hopefully someone can comment on the Mitsubishi starter kit glasses.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18881786
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried the Nvidia glasses but was doing a half assed setup with my laptop (HTPC has ATI Card) being the host of the emitter while the TV was playing Avatar on the xbox. I will be picking up an Nvision Kit as well as a GTX so I can get a full comparison of the two and if I see the rainbow with the NVidia Glasses. I am very interested to hear what people have to say about the Optoma and Viewsonic glasses.



Well at least with my Mitsubishi I do not have any rainbow, ghosting or any loss of sync occurring ever. I did not even know what people were talking about when they were referring to ghosting until I bought the x102's.


----------



## danzio2020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18881911
> 
> 
> Well at least with my Mitsubishi I do not have any rainbow, ghosting or any loss of sync occurring ever. I did not even know what people were talking about when they were referring to ghosting until I bought the x102's.



Hmm that sounds right. And the loss of sync does not occur with an emitter as the IR's are constantly on when in 3D mode so the only way to lose sync is to move out of range of the IR or obstruct it. Will be picking up 3D Vision tonight and hopefully make some pics of the rainbow and ghosting with X102s.


----------



## danzio2020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18881906
> 
> 
> I notice this as well with my X102SUD's. In my opinion this means that they don't sync well. Does anything like this occur with an emitter based setup? Good review, hopefully someone can comment on the Mitsubishi starter kit glasses.



The Kit glasses seem to be an unbranded pair of SSG2100, so they should technically work with any IR Emitter on, i.e. Nvidia. I am going to test out the Nvidia, Pansonic and Samsung Glasses all tonight on my Sammy and see if they will sync to the Nvidia emitter.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18883330
> 
> 
> The Kit glasses seem to be an unbranded pair of SSG2100, so they should technically work with any IR Emitter on, i.e. Nvidia. I am going to test out the Nvidia, Pansonic and Samsung Glasses all tonight on my Sammy and see if they will sync to the Nvidia emitter.



I am not sure if you know this but you have to have a computer hooked up to your tv for the nvidia glasses to work. I don't want to give anybody the wrong impression that the nvidia glasses work without being connected to a computer.


You also need to kind of trick your tv into thinking is receiving it's signal from the computer and change it over to a diffent input. So on some tv's with only one input this trick will not work. As you can see it ends up being be a little pain in the backside for this method to work. That's why I have been looking for an easier solution.


----------



## danzio2020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Martinefski* /forum/post/18883619
> 
> 
> I am not sure if you know this but you have to have a computer hooked up to your tv for the nvidia glasses to work. I don't want to give anybody the wrong impression that the nvidia glasses work without being connected to a computer.
> 
> 
> You also need to kind of trick your tv into thinking is receiving it's signal from the computer and change it over to a diffent input. So on some tv's with only one input this trick will not work. As you can see it ends up being be a little pain in the backside for this method to work. That's why I have been looking for an easier solution.



Of coarse you need a pc because the emitter only activates when it is receiving a 3D computer. I just want to find out if I can use the Samsung glasses with the Nvidia adapter. I've done the input trick with my laptop, its a pain but I got an HDMI switch now so It should be easier to play Xbox or PS3 with them.


----------



## ChrisHawks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18883330
> 
> 
> The Kit glasses seem to be an unbranded pair of SSG2100, so they should technically work with any IR Emitter on, i.e. Nvidia. I am going to test out the Nvidia, Pansonic and Samsung Glasses all tonight on my Sammy and see if they will sync to the Nvidia emitter.



The new Mitsubishi IR shutter glasses are identical in form and function to the Samsung SSG-2100AB battery powered glasses. I verified this using the new Mits 3DA-1 adaptor yesterday.


--chris


----------



## cyberized




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18881906
> 
> 
> I notice this as well with my X102SUD's. In my opinion this means that they don't sync well. Does anything like this occur with an emitter based setup? Good review, hopefully someone can comment on the Mitsubishi starter kit glasses.



mY 102SUD'S flickered on and off quite abit, I think, and would sometimes go brighter and then go back to darker, once in awhile.........I was wondering IF this is "par for the course" or what...........BUT figured that they probably should NOT to this......Rorey at XpanD was VERY Helpful.....I decided to get an RMA # from my e-tailer and I have returned them......naturally, hope to get a GOOD working pair in a couple of weeks or so.


----------



## Quatre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisHawks* /forum/post/18883918
> 
> 
> The new Mitsubishi IR shutter glasses are identical in form and function to the Samsung SSG-2100AB battery powered glasses. I verified this using the new Mits 3DA-1 adaptor yesterday.
> 
> 
> --chris



I have a samsung 3d ready led dlp tv and the samsung SSG 1000's. i got a pair of the SSG 2100 hoping they would work with the ssg 1000 emitter and my tv but they only work for 10 seconds and then shut down.


i see the Mitsu starter kit glasses are the same as the SSG 2100. any chance they would somehow work with the ssg 1000 emitter where as the samsung branded ones dont seem to in my experience?


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Quatre* /forum/post/18902948
> 
> 
> I have a samsung 3d ready led dlp tv and the samsung SSG 1000's. i got a pair of the SSG 2100 hoping they would work with the ssg 1000 emitter and my tv but they only work for 10 seconds and then shut down.
> 
> 
> i see the Mitsu starter kit glasses are the same as the SSG 2100. any chance they would somehow work with the ssg 1000 emitter where as the samsung branded ones dont seem to in my experience?



They are the same glasses, so no they need the 2100 emitter.


----------



## jjknatl

just got optomas today.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18904401


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/18888653
> 
> 
> mY 102SUD'S flickered on and off quite abit, I think, and would sometimes go brighter and then go back to darker, once in awhile.........I was wondering IF this is "par for the course" or what...........BUT figured that they probably should NOT to this......Rorey at XpanD was VERY Helpful.....I decided to get an RMA # from my e-tailer and I have returned them......naturally, hope to get a GOOD working pair in a couple of weeks or so.



Hopefully you'll get a good pair. I have yet to have any sync issues with my pair of X102s.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18904407
> 
> 
> just got optomas today.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18904401



ugh!!! Rainbows with optomas are worse than they were with the x102s! Now I'm afraid it may be my TV to blame.


World Cup photo was through x102s. TDF photo was through optomas.


----------



## destiny 21

had the same purplish streak as your world cup picture on my samsung a750 dlp with xpand 102. sent back the 102s for a replacement pair hopefully i wont see them with the new ones. also it was while i was watching grand canyon imax 3d bluray. also what tv did you see these rainbows on. if i have the same problem with the new x102 glasses i will have the panny 350 player 2 pair xpand 102 glasses and grand canyon 3d bluray for sale.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *destiny 21* /forum/post/18906633
> 
> 
> had the same purplish streak as your world cup picture on my samsung a750 dlp with xpand 102. sent back the 102s for a replacement pair hopefully i wont see them with the new ones. also it was while i was watching grand canyon imax 3d bluray. also what tv did you see these rainbows on. if i have the same problem with the new x102 glasses i will have the panny 350 player 2 pair xpand 102 glasses and grand canyon 3d bluray for sale.



Mitsubishi WD65C9. I'll post whether I see rainbows with the Mitsubishi/Samsung glasses I'll be receiving soon. Others who have seen rainbows with x102s claim they don't see the rainbows with Nvidia emitter based glasses so maybe there is still hope for those of us who do see it. Mitsubishi cannot put the blame on the other glasses manufacturers if I see the rainbow with the Mits glasses too. If it is my TV, I'll be demanding a replacement from Mits and will be prepared to play hardball over the issue.


----------



## destiny 21

so do you think if i get my replacement 102 glasses i will still see the purpish rainbow


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18906741
> 
> 
> Mitsubishi WD65C9. I'll post whether I see rainbows with the Mitsubishi/Samsung glasses I'll be receiving soon. Others who have seen rainbows with x102s claim they don't see the rainbows with Nvidia emitter based glasses so maybe there is still hope for those of us who do see it. Mitsubishi cannot put the blame on the other glasses manufacturers if I see the rainbow with the Mits glasses too. If it is my TV, I'll be demanding a replacement from Mits and will be prepared to play hardball over the issue.



I have had 4 pairs of X102s in my possession and they all create a rainbow on my 73837 whether in 3d mode or not. I think this is inherent to the glasses. I bet you won't see it with the Mits glasses but we'll see.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *destiny 21* /forum/post/18906764
> 
> 
> so do you think if i get my replacement 102 glasses i will still see the purpish rainbow



I hope you don't, but I bet you will. I have yet to hear from anyone who sees the rainbow with one pair of x102s but does not see the rainbow with any other pair of x102s. The Optoma glasses are also DLP Link, so maybe DLP Link glasses have some quirk to them that is causing at least some of us this problem.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18904407
> 
> 
> just got optomas today.




See review with comparison to x102 at
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18907760


----------



## Quatre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18883330
> 
> 
> The Kit glasses seem to be an unbranded pair of SSG2100, so they should technically work with any IR Emitter on, i.e. Nvidia. I am going to test out the Nvidia, Pansonic and Samsung Glasses all tonight on my Sammy and see if they will sync to the Nvidia emitter.



The Samsung SSG2100's (same as the ones that come in the Mitsubishi starter kit) do not work with the SSG1000's emitter even so I doubt they will work with other emitters sadly.


Being i have a samsung tv I did not want to get the mitsu starter kit which contains the converter which wont work with samsung dlp but I found that Mitsuparts.com sells the emitter from the 3dc-1000 starter kit separately! and the glasses but the glasses are $165 where as you can get the Samsung branded version (ssg2100) for $150 at the store so no shipping.


even the samsung starter kit at $350 doesnt seem worht it as thats $50 for the movie it comes with so i am probably just going to get a couple pairs of ssg2100 to work with the mitsu emitter i got separately (samsung doesn't sell an emitter to work with their ssg2100 so thank goodness mitsu uses the same glasses and does sell an emitter)


the great thinga bout the ssg2100's is that they will be compatible with a samsung 3d led lcd (which i will be gettign the 65" hopefully eventually after it comes out)


then i'll just have to sell my ssg1000's and emitter and then maybe get the converter (mitsu one hacked to work for samsung though its not worth the $100 more just for the hack so ppl are working on getting the mitsu one and doing the work around themselves)


so for now may just use the panny 350 which doesnt need an adapter and the couple games on 360 also and hopefully more games will have the option for checkerboard making no converter neccesary. i have fios which doens have 3d chans yet so if i can get away with not getting the converter and just get new 3d tv then i'll be good cus then all i have to sell is the emitter though i will be keeping my 67" sam led dlp so i guess it wouldnt hurt to get the converter...


----------



## Quatre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisHawks* /forum/post/18883918
> 
> 
> The new Mitsubishi IR shutter glasses are identical in form and function to the Samsung SSG-2100AB battery powered glasses. I verified this using the new Mits 3DA-1 adaptor yesterday.
> 
> 
> --chris



you mean you tried the Samsung branded SSG2100's with the Mitsu emitter? yes I have assumed that works as the mitsu glasses that come with that emitter in the starter park are rebranded ssg2100's.


But the 3da-1 adaptor/converter has nothing to do with the glasses. the glasses dont need the converter. thats just for converting side by side 3d to checkerboard that dlp's display.


----------



## buzzard767




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18907499
> 
> 
> I hope you don't, but I bet you will. I have yet to hear from anyone who sees the rainbow with one pair of x102s but does not see the rainbow with any other pair of x102s. The Optoma glasses are also DLP Link, so maybe DLP Link glasses have some quirk to them that is causing at least some of us this problem.



It's either the checkerboard format or more likely the displays themselves. On my Sammy HL67A750 the rainbows are exactly the same all the time. Nothing moves, nothing changes, no matter how many different pairs of glasses you try.


Buzz


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzard767* /forum/post/18909050
> 
> 
> It's either the checkerboard format or more likely the displays themselves. On my Sammy HL67A750 the rainbows are exactly the same all the time. Nothing moves, nothing changes, no matter how many different pairs of glasses you try.
> 
> 
> Buzz



Someone did say they saw a rainbow with x102 but no rainbow with nVidia. I'm holding out hope that emitter glasses and particularly the Mits emitter glasses, for whatever reason, do not have the rainbows.


I agree that the rainbows are always the same, never move, but they don't show up on some people's screens who have the same glasses and model of TV as other people. There is some variable that we don't know about apparently.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18907499
> 
> 
> I hope you don't, but I bet you will. I have yet to hear from anyone who sees the rainbow with one pair of x102s but does not see the rainbow with any other pair of x102s. The Optoma glasses are also DLP Link, so maybe DLP Link glasses have some quirk to them that is causing at least some of us this problem.



I have the X102s and IO Display shutters (with IR emitter), and don't see the purple band or rainbows on my HL61A750. I'll try and remember to post my display settings tonight.


Note, I view everything from my HTPC, using a ATI HD2900XT.


----------



## turls




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danzio2020* /forum/post/18881786
> 
> 
> I have tried the Nvidia glasses but was doing a half assed setup with my laptop (HTPC has ATI Card) being the host of the emitter while the TV was playing Avatar on the xbox. I will be picking up an Nvision Kit as well as a GTX so I can get a full comparison of the two and if I see the rainbow with the NVidia Glasses. I am very interested to hear what people have to say about the Optoma and Viewsonic glasses.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18906741
> 
> 
> I'll post whether I see rainbows with the Mitsubishi/Samsung glasses I'll be receiving soon. Others who have seen rainbows with x102s claim they don't see the rainbows with Nvidia emitter based glasses so maybe there is still hope for those of us who do see it. Mitsubishi cannot put the blame on the other glasses manufacturers if I see the rainbow with the Mits glasses too. If it is my TV, I'll be demanding a replacement from Mits and will be prepared to play hardball over the issue.



I think it must be a DLP tech issue. I get the rainbows just like the pictures in this thread with a Nvidia setup and a Samsung LED DLP (HL61A750). Maybe the ones that don't see it happen to have the TVs set in such a way (brightness, contrast, who knows?) that they don't show up. There are a lot of variables. As of now, I've seen posts for the issue on Mits and Sammy, Nvidia and Xpand.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *turls* /forum/post/18910469
> 
> 
> I think it must be a DLP tech issue. I get the rainbows just like the pictures in this thread with a Nvidia setup and a Samsung LED DLP (HL61A750). Maybe the ones that don't see it happen to have the TVs set in such a way (brightness, contrast, who knows?) that they don't show up. There are a lot of variables. As of now, I've seen posts for the issue on Mits and Sammy, Nvidia and Xpand.




Well, now I have zero confidence that the Mits glasses will avoid the rainbows. Does your DLP that is LED still have a color wheel?


Mits had better be prepared to explain what the settings need to be to hide the rainbow or be prepared to feel a lot of wrath from a lot of ticked 3D adopters. They will definitely be hearing from me.


I think because the rainbows are so prevalent for some people and apparently completly missing for others that there must be some significant variation from TV to TV, whether it be 1 or more settings or purely hardware.


I have a hard time believing that Mits and Samsung would release a product with such a flaw if all TVs will do this with certain settings and yet not explain how to avoid the rainbow in any documentation. The typical DLP RBE is only noticed by some people... this is different as everybody can see it at all times on an affected TV including a camera!!


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18910583
> 
> 
> Well, now I have zero confidence that the Mits glasses will avoid the rainbows. Does your DLP that is LED still have a color wheel?



Samsung LED DLPs do not have a color wheel. So his post would suggest that the "3d rainbows" are unrelated to RBE. Given that, it's possible that all 3d displays (plasma, LCD) could exhibit this.


----------



## taz291819

If someone wants to give me a specific scene/time in Coraline, MvA, or Cloudy, I'll take a look for these rainbows others are seeing.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Darin* /forum/post/18910661
> 
> 
> Samsung LED DLPs do not have a color wheel. So his post would suggest that the "3d rainbows" are unrelated to RBE. Given that, it's possible that all 3d displays (plasma, LCD) could exhibit this.



Another dirty little secret of 3d at home possibly uncovered. I will say this, when I have viewed the Panasonic 3d plasma, and didn't see a rainbow. I guess that setup is my solution if all else fails to resolve it.


I've submitted a tech question to Optoma. I may call them to as they responded with a phone number for urgent questions. I haven't gotten a response from Xpand about it.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18910754
> 
> 
> Another dirty little secret of 3d at home possibly uncovered. I will say this, when I have viewed the Panasonic 3d plasma, and didn't see a rainbow. I guess that setup is my solution if all else fails to resolve it.
> 
> 
> I've submitted a tech question to Optoma. I may call them to as they responded with a phone number for urgent questions. I haven't gotten a response from Xpand about it.



Martinefski did have a problem with these rainbows on his dlp with the x102s but not his NVIDIA glasses. Please let us know what you find out. I admire your tenacity.


----------



## pjb16

Using x102s, a Mits 73C9, a PS3 playing avatar (the game), and Panasonic 350 playing Grand Canyon, Panasonic Demo, and Cloudy I have yet to see rainbows when using 3D.


----------



## turls

Just to be clear, I think technically these "rainbows" have nothing to do with RBE, and I do have two different pairs of Nvidia 3D Vision glasses that were not purchased at the same time. I get the "rainbowing" (this term was coined on here in another thread I think) with either pair.


Any scene with a light background you can't miss it.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/18910739
> 
> 
> If someone wants to give me a specific scene/time in Coraline, MvA, or Cloudy, I'll take a look for these rainbows others are seeing.



Any scene where the upper half of the screen is fairly light in color. A view of the sky is a good one, or any white screen.


For that matter, you don't even need to be viewing 3D content or even have the glasses turned on. Just put them on when watching anything.


----------



## Quatre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18909103
> 
> 
> Someone did say they saw a rainbow with x102 but no rainbow with nVidia. I'm holding out hope that emitter glasses and particularly the Mits emitter glasses, for whatever reason, do not have the rainbows.
> 
> 
> I agree that the rainbows are always the same, never move, but they don't show up on some people's screens who have the same glasses and model of TV as other people. There is some variable that we don't know about apparently.



i know ghosting is different then rainbows but I someone say on a samsung 3d led lcd something about changing a setting in the 3d options and it stopped the ghosting perfectly. something about setting it to -1 as +1 and 0 both had ghosting. but i dont think we have this setting on the dlp as the only 3d setting is off, mode1, and mode2


----------



## Waltm

Are these rainbows/color bands similar to the stress rainbows you see looking at clear plastic parts through polarizing filters? Are any of the internal optics of these DLP sets made of plastic instead of glass?

http://holyjoe.org/hp/rainbow.htm has an example of this effect on lcd panels.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18910800
> 
> 
> Martinefski did have a problem with these rainbows on his dlp with the x102s but not his NVIDIA glasses. Please let us know what you find out. I admire your tenacity.



Yes, this is true but maybe it's because the nvidia glasses are natively supported by Mitsubishi.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Waltm* /forum/post/18913408
> 
> 
> Are these rainbows/color bands similar to the stress rainbows you see looking at clear plastic parts through polarizing filters? Are any of the internal optics of these DLP sets made of plastic instead of glass?
> 
> http://holyjoe.org/hp/rainbow.htm has an example of this effect on lcd panels.



I believe you may be on the right track here. I just took a look at the screen through a pair of the realD 3D polarizing glasses and I see some green/purple color banding in the same area that I see the rainbow. looking through one lens it is green to the left of purple. Looking through the other lens which prosumably has the opposite polarization, it is purple to the left of green.


x102s had a more purple looking rainbow while optomas had a more green look. So, the shutter glasses are having a polarizing effect beyond merely being LCD gate open or closed. Perhaps those of us seeing rainbows need some non-polarizing shutter glasses if they exist or a new TV.


Perhaps some Mits sets do use inferior plastic optics. My call to Mitsubishi just got more serious.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18914890
> 
> 
> I believe you may be on the right track here. I just took a look at the screen through a pair of the realD 3D polarizing glasses and I see some green/purple color banding in the same area that I see the rainbow. looking through one lens it is green to the left of purple. Looking through the other lens which prosumably has the opposite polarization, it is purple to the left of green.
> 
> 
> x102s had a more purple looking rainbow while optomas had a more green look. So, the shutter glasses are having a polarizing effect beyond merely being LCD gate open or closed. Perhaps those of us seeing rainbows need some non-polarizing shutter glasses if they exist or a new TV.
> 
> 
> Perhaps some Mits sets do use inferior plastic optics. My call to Mitsubishi just got more serious.



Also see it when viewed through a pair of polarized sun glasses. I believe sunglasses have the same polarization in both lenses, and the order of the green and purple did not shift as a result of that.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18914949
> 
> 
> Also see it when viewed through a pair of polarized sun glasses. I believe sunglasses have the same polarization in both lenses, and the order of the green and purple did not shift as a result of that.



Do you think that the screen is the problem? Does touching the screen change the rainbow?


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18915039
> 
> 
> Do you think that the screen is the problem? Does touching the screen change the rainbow?



I briefly tried that earlier and didn't notice a difference, but I'll try it again later today. I tend to think it may be part of the internal optics, like maybe the post DMD lens or the pre DMD mirror. My guess would be for something late in the sequence, likely the lens.


Does anyone know which Mits internal optics are plastic? Different models have the rainbow so it is likely a part that is plastic for all models.


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18915252
> 
> 
> Does anyone know which Mits internal optics are plastic? Different models have the rainbow so it is likely a part that is plastic for all models.



I don't know about the internal optics, but the screen certainly is.


----------



## pjb16

After having used the Mits glasses and the x102s, I have to say I like the x102s more. I have prescription glasses, and the x102s not only seem to fit over better (more comfortably at least), the x102s also seem to block out a lot more ambient light.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18916335
> 
> 
> After having used the Mits glasses and the x102s, I have to say I like the x102s more. I have prescription glasses, and the x102s not only seem to fit over better (more comfortably at least), the x102s also seem to block out a lot more ambient light.



Ambient light aside is there any difference in picture quality? Any ghosting, rainbowing, etc. differences?


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18916396
> 
> 
> Ambient light aside is there any difference in picture quality? Any ghosting, rainbowing, etc. differences?



Not that I saw. I've yet to see ghosting or rainbows on any 3D media on my set with either the Mits glasses or x102s.


----------



## Martinefski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18918800
> 
> 
> After having used the Mits glasses and the x102s, I have to say I like the x102s more. I have prescription glasses, and the x102s not only seem to fit over better (more comfortably at least), the x102s also seem to block out a lot more ambient light.



I have two pair of x102's sud models and I will do you a straight across trade for you Mitsubishi glasses if you want.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/18918800
> 
> 
> Not that I saw. I've yet to see ghosting or rainbows on any 3D media on my set with either the Mits glasses or x102s.



Good to hear. I have a kit coming on Tuesday. I can see dim rainbows (not too distracting) with my X102's. I'll post a comparison with the Mits glasses when I get them.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18918944
> 
> 
> Good to hear. I have a kit coming on Tuesday. I can see dim rainbows (not too distracting) with my X102's. I'll post a comparison with the Mits glasses when I get them.



Ditto. Btw, have you tried to determine if the plastic screen is the cause of the rainbow? I pushed the screen slightly and it does affect the rainbow I think but it affects the video content as well so still not sure. Mits has my complaint and photos and is supposed to respond on Monday. Would be nice if a free screen swap would fix it.


----------



## Dintkin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18919409
> 
> 
> Ditto. Btw, have you tried to determine if the plastic screen is the cause of the rainbow? I pushed the screen slightly and it does affect the rainbow I think but it affects the video content as well so still not sure. Mits has my complaint and photos and is supposed to respond on Monday. Would be nice if a free screen swap would fix it.



If you see the rainbows try to tilt your head to one side or wear the glasses crooked (at an angle).They disappear for me.


I just thought it was weird. all they would need to do is rotate the lens of the glasses 15-20 deg. to fix it. I first noticed it while looking at my laptop monitor. the screen is hard to see unless i tilt my head.


----------



## pmalter0

I'm using x102s with a Mits 65737--no rainbows, no ghosts--just glorious 3D!


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dintkin* /forum/post/18921118
> 
> 
> If you see the rainbows try to tilt your head to one side or wear the glasses crooked (at an angle).They disappear for me.
> 
> 
> I just thought it was weird. all they would need to do is rotate the lens of the glasses 15-20 deg. to fix it. I first noticed it while looking at my laptop monitor. the screen is hard to see unless i tilt my head.



That does help. There is a sweet spot where the rainbow is almost entirely gone. Believe that is related to the polarization angle of the lenses.


I had tried 90 degree rotation before with no benefit. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## pmalter0

I lucked out with my X102s--they work fine and they fit me comfortably. However, I tried the Panny glasses at BB--and for me they are terrible--they don't fit, are uncomfortable, and I can see a "flicker." From my experiences, as well as the comments of others here, it appears to be important to try before you buy--this is especially true of sets like the Mits where you have many choices.


----------



## bcterp

I received the starter kit today and some first impressions regarding glasses:


1. No rainbows with the Mits glasses. I tested this side by side with my X102's and both pairs of Mits glasses using a paused image. The X102's have several vertical rainbows while the Mits glasses have absolutely none. I'm much relieved about this.


2. No sync problems like those I encountered with the X102's. I watched Directv in 3D for awhile under my overhead CFL lights and there was no flicker or loss of sync. My overhead CFL's cause havoc with the X102's sync.


3. Every time I press a button on my remote there is a split second flutter with the Mits glasses. The IR of the remote interferes with the glasses. Not a big deal unless you constantly change volume during a program.


4. The X102's and Mits glasses are reverse of each other. Not usable together on my setup.


I only played with the kit for about 30 minutes so these are just my initial impressions.


----------



## jjknatl

got my kit today but haven't been in a hurry to test. glad to hear no rainbows. Hope I'm as fortunate. Still no word from mits re my complaint about rainbows with dlp link glasses. Perhaps now we know why the kit has the Samsung glasses.


----------



## Av8tr

Someone posted that the 2200's are actually better than the 2100's in more ways than just the charging aspect. Not sure exactly what he was stating, but can anyone gives us a comparison?


I asked this in another thread as well, but have not gotten an answer. Maybe this thread is better anyway.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18935284
> 
> 
> I received the starter kit today and some first impressions regarding glasses:
> 
> 
> 1. No rainbows with the Mits glasses. I tested this side by side with my X102's and both pairs of Mits glasses using a paused image. The X102's have several vertical rainbows while the Mits glasses have absolutely none. I'm much relieved about this.



I just took a quick look through the non-rechargeables and rechargeables. At least when they are off (or on but not syncing because I don't have the emitter hooked up yet) I see no rainbow with either pair unless I turn my head away from the TV and look at it through the corner of my eye. then the rainbow (purple streak anyway) does faintly reappear. However, I am pleased with what I have seen so far considering no one will watch the TV with their head turned far enough to cause the streak to show up.


When checking for the rainbow, be sure and take off the plastic protective layers from the glasses. Looking at the TV with those still on the glasses produces severe rainbows which bummed me out at first but then I was relieved once I removed the protective layers.


Another note, the tint on the non-rechargeables and rechargeables appears to be exactly the same.


----------



## jjknatl

One concern I do have with the kit glasses is ghosting. The vertical and horizontal polarizing layers of the LCD shutter are what produce the shutter in combination with the LCD layer.


If the kit glasses have less effective polarizing layers than other glasses, which avoids the rainbows, presumably there would be more cross-over of left and right frames into right and left eyes, respectively.


However, if the horizontal and vertical polarizing layers are placed on an angle less then 90 degress from the normal, that might be how they are avoiding the rainbows. I'll have to experiment with tilting them to find out.


Either way, sounds like most are happy with them so far.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18938243
> 
> 
> One concern I do have with the kit glasses is ghosting. The vertical and horizontal polarizing layers of the LCD shutter are what produce the shutter in combination with the LCD layer.
> 
> 
> If the kit glasses have less effective polarizing layers than other glasses, which avoids the rainbows, presumably there would be more cross-over of left and right frames into right and left eyes, respectively.
> 
> 
> However, if the horizontal and vertical polarizing layers are placed on an angle less then 90 degress from the normal, that might be how they are avoiding the rainbows. I'll have to experiment with tilting them to find out.
> 
> 
> Either way, sounds like most are happy with them so far.



Tilting the Mits glasses produces the same rainbows as my X102's. I have to tilt uncomfortably far to see them so no worries. I think what you said about rotation is correct.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/18938844
> 
> 
> Tilting the Mits glasses produces the same rainbows as my X102's. I have to tilt uncomfortably far to see them so no worries. I think what you said about rotation is correct.



Ironically, that is very good news because that means these shouldn't suffer from ghosting any more than the glasses we have tried that produce rainbows when worn normally.


I didn't see rainbows with the rechargeable samsung glasses either when worn normally, so apparently samsung has been smart enough to implement the tilted polarization. Nice work by somebody at Samsung!!


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18939274
> 
> 
> ..... so apparently samsung has been smart enough to implement the tilted polarization. Nice work by somebody at Samsung!!



Or by whoever is making them for Mitsubishi & Samsung...........


----------



## jjknatl

I have yet to actually hook up the mits starter kit emitter and test the Mits and rechargeable samsung glasses. Trying to get that done tonight in preparation for X-games.


Has anyone tried the rechargeable glasses and can confirm that they sync in the same order as the mits glasses? I have heard some say that the mits glasses sync as standard while I've heard at least one person say that the rechargeable samsung glasses synced as reverse. Surely the two have the same sync order?!


----------



## walford

The sync order is based on the processing time to create the display in the TV it is not based on the Mits adapter or glases themselves, If your image is bad because the left eye and right eye shutter closings are wrong select Reverse in you TV.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18965834
> 
> 
> The sync order is based on the processing time to create the display in the TV it is not based on the Mits adapter or glases themselves, If your image is bad because the left eye and right eye shutter closings are wrong select Reverse in you TV.



I am of the opinion that the glasses do have a set sync order based on the emitter (or DLP link) signal being received. Something about that signal apparently triggers the order, hence the reverse and standard settings of the TV adapting the signal to flip the order.


Most agree that the x102 glasses (and I have included the optoma glasses in this same group) provide a proper viewing experience with the TV set to reverse while the mits glasses provide a proper viewing when the TV is set to standard. Thus, it has been stated that mits glasses and x102/optoma sync opposite of one another at least for blu-ray and D* 3D content and won't work together for that reason. My hope is that the rechargeable samsung glasses sync in the same order as the mits glasses, which would be the opposite sync order of the x102/optoma glasses.


----------



## walford

The reason that the X102 DLP-link glases have the correct sync signal is because the DLP-link flashes the "White-flash" on the screen between the actual two 3D frames so there is no way it can be out or sync since it knows if it is diaplaying a right eye or left eye frame.


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18966554
> 
> 
> The reason that the X102 DLP-link glases have the correct sync signal is because the DLP-link flashes the "White-flash" on the screen between the actual two 3D frames so there is no way it can be out or sync since it knows if it is diaplaying a right eye or left eye frame.



Are you suggesting the same logic isn't used for the "IR flash" from the emitter?


----------



## walford

I am sugesting that there is possibly a time delay in the TVs procesing of the

TV's display of the white flash on the TVand the and output of an IR sync signal which requires that the TV delay the sync signal to the glass by 1/120th of a second by selecting reverse on the TV


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18966554
> 
> 
> The reason that the X102 DLP-link glases have the correct sync signal is because the DLP-link flashes the "White-flash" on the screen between the actual two 3D frames so there is no way it can be out or sync since it knows if it is diaplaying a right eye or left eye frame.



The point is that a given white flash apparently triggers the x102 to sync one lens versus the other, and the standard/reverse setting of the TV controls which lens is synced by that white flash (or at least which lens is synced first by that white flash).


I'm with Darin, I'd say the IR burst from the emitter works the same way as the white flash from the screen.


The problem is that one model of glasses syncs left lens from a white flash or IR burst occurring at time t=0 while a different model of glasses syncs the right lends from a white flash or IR burst at time t=0.


It isn't a matter of saying well the screen looks funny so let's change the standard/reverse setting. It looks funny through one model of glasses at the same time that it looks normal through another model of glasses. Switching the standard/reverse on the TV then switches which model of glasses allow the screen to look normal. So either way, one model of glasses looks funny, while the other looks normal. So you have to be careful about which glasses you purchase to avoid this.


It is conceivable that all DLP link glasses require reverse, while all emitter glasses require standard. I'm not sure of that but saying it is possible.


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18966665
> 
> 
> I am sugesting that there is possibly af thtime delay in the TVs procesing of the
> 
> TV's display of the white flash on the TV and output of an IR sync signal which requires that the TV delay the sync signal to the glass by 1/120th of a sont



In other posts, you have stated this as fact. What is your source? I've pointed out a couple of times that this defies logic. The sync simply needs to be driven off the same timing as the wobulation mirror. What makes you think that they would derive the sync timing from a point that is upstream of any processing that could inherently cause timing inaccuracies?


----------



## nc88keyz

i put a poll up ...but darin, all of my content with the 2200ars look to require "reverse"


are you contradicting this...and if so does this mean that differnt people process better with differnt syncs. tonight we watched dinasaurs of pategonia and of course the 3d mode defaults at normal....quickly figured out reverse was where the "pop" was.


ive been using reverse for everything thus far. i thought i had normal selected at one time but realized that it probably hould have been reverse all along.


wd73833 and ssg2200ar , 3da1, and hr21 directv box.


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nc88keyz* /forum/post/18969058
> 
> 
> i put a poll up ...but darin, all of my content with the 2200ars look to require "reverse"
> 
> 
> are you contradicting this...and if so does this mean that differnt people process better with differnt syncs.



No, not at all. I'm just saying that the need for reverse mode is to compensate for EITHER the particular glasses that are being used being "backwards" from what the considers to be correct, or the content is coded backwards from the TV considers correct. It's not to adjust for timing delays within the TV itself. That would be silly because a) the TV manufacturer would know if/what the delay is, so there should be no need for a user setting for that situation, and b) the simple and obvious solution to internal signal processing delays is to drive the sync signal AFTER any signal processing. And that is simply in time with the screen refreshes.


So it's easy for the TV manufacturer to ensure that the sync signal is in time with the left/right images being displayed. But what is totally out of their control is glasses from other manufacturers not using the same standard they are, or content producers not using the same standard. One might consider left to be the first image, and the other right. 3d appears to be lacking in a lot of standardization right now.


On a side note, now that you mention it, yes, I think my 2200ARs also look better in reverse mode. I really haven't used them other than to confirm they work, since I can't play any real 3d content yet. The ONLY test material I can use at this point is the function within PDVD10 to convert 2d DVDs to 3d. And right now, sound doesn't even work for me in PDVD10. But I've paused an image, and flipped back and forth, and I do think it looks better in reverse. But I need real 3d content to confirm. That software is making a guess at what's supposed to be close, and what's supposed to be far, so it's not the best test to use. My adapter is SUPPOSED to ship by the end of the month, so I'll be able to try out DirecTV then. Hopefully I'll get some blu-ray content soon as well.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nc88keyz* /forum/post/18969058
> 
> 
> i put a poll up ...but darin, all of my content with the 2200ars look to require "reverse"



Do you have the mits starter glasses and is so do they also require reverse? I'm thinking the 833 series of TVs may be opposite the sync of the others.


My samsung rechargeables and my mits starter pack glasses both work properly in standard, while my DLP link glasses work properly in reverse.


A particular piece of content that really does a good job of showing the difference between correct and incorrect sync is the Disneyworld castle in the background with "Walt Disney" popping out in the foreground. If the glasses are in incorrect sync, my eyes can't focus on the screen and it is nearly painful.


----------



## Darin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18972261
> 
> 
> My samsung rechargeables and my mits starter pack glasses both work properly in standard, while my DLP link glasses work properly in reverse.



Just curious... is your emitter connected to the adapter, or to the TV?


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/18966554
> 
> 
> The reason that the X102 DLP-link glases have the correct sync signal is because the DLP-link flashes the "White-flash" on the screen between the actual two 3D frames so there is no way it can be out or sync since it knows if it is diaplaying a right eye or left eye frame.



Some photos to illustrate the problem of different models of glasses having opposite sync (regardless of standard/reverse setting) and thus not being able to be used together.


In these photos, the Optoma DLP link has the dark lens on the opposite side of the mits and rechargeable samsung glasses, so the optoma glasses can't be used at the same time.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Darin* /forum/post/18972309
> 
> 
> Just curious... is your emitter connected to the adapter, or to the TV?



I use the Panny 300's checkerboard output, rather than running it through the adapter, so I have the emitter connected to the TV.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Darin* /forum/post/18972309
> 
> 
> Just curious... is your emitter connected to the adapter, or to the TV?



I may connect it to the adapter to test if the emitter sync gets flipped. Considering I see rainbows with both models of dlp link glasses I've tried, I have no use for getting the optomas or x102s to sync with the mits glasses anyway but might be useful info for other people.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/18973097
> 
> 
> I may connect it to the adapter to test if the emitter sync gets flipped. Considering I see rainbows with both models of dlp link glasses I've tried, I have no use for getting the optomas or x102s to sync with the mits glasses anyway but might be useful info for other people.



connecting emitter to the adapter (with adapter to emitter out on TV) did not flip the sync order. still need standard sync for mits glasses.


----------



## jjknatl

got a response from MDEA about rainbows. They are apparently now as aware of this as we are. They can a boilerplate respose about the normal dlp rainbow effect, and then added on that this rainbow effect can be worsened for some people in 3D due to the checkerboard.


So, they are probably not going to address the issue. My bigger concern now is getting rid of the DLP link haze seen through my mits emitter-based glasses. We'll see what MDEA says about that.


I'm hoping someone can confirm that using the emitter connected to the adapter alleviates the haze.


At the end of the day, if they ignore the rainbow issue and/or they ignore the DLP link haze seen through the mits glasses in some models of TVs, there may be enough fodder there to take legal action as a class of plaintiffs.


----------



## cyberized

Can anyone here PLEASE tell me IF they use and like the OPTOMA ZD101 DLP Glasses?

I did not like my XpanD 102s and returned them - now looking to try another brand.....BUT trying to find any reviews of DLP Glasses is like looking for "hen's teeth".


TKS michael










PS: My TV is a Samsung HDTV LED DLP 61A750.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/19007545
> 
> 
> Can anyone here PLEASE tell me IF they use and like the OPTOMA ZD101 DLP Glasses?
> 
> I did not like my XpanD 102s and returned them - now looking to try another brand.....BUT trying to find any reviews of DLP Glasses is like looking for "hen's teeth".
> 
> 
> TKS michael



I've left several posts about my experience with them so take a look at those.


In summary, best PQ I've seen yet, eliminates the dlp-link haze of 3D mode, dark blacks, some brightness is lost but that happens with any glasses, never loses sync.


However, the frames are clunky, weight is similar to x102s, won't fit kids because ear pieces are too far apart, and they reveal the polarization rainbows IF your TV creates them (not all do). Also, they sync in reverse like x102s (I think all DLP link may do this because I think they are designed more for front projection than rear projection), and so therefore they won't work properly at the same time as the mits and samsung glasses which sync in the normal setting.


----------



## taz291819

They should build the "reverse" mode into the glasses instead of the display. This would eliminate the problem of using different brands.


----------



## ChrisHawks

For those of you who have complained about the comfort of the Xpand X102's...this looks interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320571947192


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/19012654
> 
> 
> They should build the "reverse" mode into the glasses instead of the display. This would eliminate the problem of using different brands.



agreed. I asked optoma if there was a way and they gave me a canned answer about switching the setting in their projector.


There may be a relatively easy way to reverse in the glasses if you are willing to crack them open and see the wiring. Since I needed to return both x102s and optomas due to the polarization rainbows, I didn't take that step.


----------



## cyberized

When some of you refer to making settings of "reverse" or "standard" to change the peroofrmance of certain glasses......where and on what are you making these changes? I have a Samsung HL 61A750 and as far as I know I have NEVER seen these "options"???


PS - Would the choice of Mode 1 OR Mode 2 with my HDTV be the same?


TKS michael


----------



## walford

I am unable to access your TV's user manual. In it probably in a section about 3D or Emitters it will say how to switch from Normal or Standard to Reverse to not get Cross-eye images on your screen.


----------



## bullripper

yes mode 1 and mode 2 are the same option being discussed.


----------



## nc88keyz

Good to know about Mode1:2 = Normal:Reverse


----------



## 2Dark

At last a decent thread dedicated to shutter glasses. Thanks for all the info. My five cents to this discussion:


Integrated cards do not have the power to display 3D properly. And specially the laptop integrated cards. Forget about Intel GMA45, X3100, 4500 MHD or even the new Intel HD. Ditto for the ATI HD 3200 or HD 4200 cards. They all do not have the power to process game graphics or Blu Ray, AND the more GPU intensive 3D display at the same time. You need a discrete card. The most basic Nvidia card capable of some 3D is the 8600 GT, then the 8800 GT and then the 200 GT, 300 GT, 500 GT series cards. The most basic ATI card is the HD 2600, then the HD 2900, the HD 3870 and then the HD 4600, HD 4800, HD 5000 series cards. Dual SLI or crossfire setups are most likely to be capable of 3D gaming. Same for laptop 3D (newest ATI 5000 series cards are your best price performance ratio bet there). Minimum of 512MB dedicated video ram on the card.


I have been waiting for the Viewsonic's PGD-150 shutter glasses since May. I finally decided to contact Viewsonic directly on 8/3 and they said they would be available in "two weeks", so that would be 8/17. I hope they do not break as easily as the Optoma's, they look almost exactly the same.


----------



## Milmanias

I think the Viewsonic and Optoma glasses are the same, with different branding. Just hot the Mitsubishi and Samsung glasses are basically the same.


----------



## knurled

I noticed two other members in this thread posting the concern re: red spotting in the lenses (while active) which was never addressed. Just received my 102's today and my right lens is very spotty with minimal spotting in the left lens. My internal tag indicates the SUD batch. Anyone else to relate to this? Impact on viewing experience?


----------



## pmalter0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knurled* /forum/post/19069422
> 
> 
> I noticed two other members in this thread posting the concern re: red spotting in the lenses (while active) which was never addressed. Just received my 102's today and my right lens is very spotty with minimal spotting in the left lens. My internal tag indicates the SUD batch. Anyone else to relate to this? Impact on viewing experience?



Common--no impact on viewing.


----------



## DenisG

It's in the manual, page 13
*XpanD DLP® Link™ 3D Glasses Model No X102

FAQ*
*When the glasses are off, why are there spots on the lenses?*

Spots on the lenses are a normal operation of liquid crystal.


----------



## knurled

Hmm, my x102 manual does not even have 13 pages. My issue is when the glasses are active. Guess I'll have to wait until my disc about falling meatballs arrives.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knurled* /forum/post/19073277
> 
> 
> Hmm, my x102 manual does not even have 13 pages. My issue is when the glasses are active. Guess I'll have to wait until my disc about falling meatballs arrives.


 http://www.tru3d.com/stage/uploads/d...-BW-4x6_v4.pdf


----------



## knurled

Thank-you DenisG.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knurled* /forum/post/19073861
> 
> 
> Thank-you DenisG.



When I first saw the spots on mine I was a little freaked out about it myself at first.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChrisHawks* /forum/post/19012703
> 
> 
> For those of you who have complained about the comfort of the Xpand X102's...this looks interesting.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320571947192



Those went for some ridiculous amount of money.

I emailed XpanD and they do in fact make the nose pieces. I am now waiting to see about how I go about ordering some.

Oh, and they sent pic's of them.


----------



## turls

So has anybody ordered batteries for the X102's from Xpand successfully? My first battery is dead after just a few hours (power off did not work correctly?), and when I try to order with Firefox or IE at their website, it complains about me not putting in a phone number that there is no field for. First the battery pricing is lame, then the order system is junk. Nice.


----------



## DenisG

Have you tried tru3d.com?


----------



## buzzard767




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *turls* /forum/post/19083922
> 
> 
> So has anybody ordered batteries for the X102's from Xpand successfully? My first battery is dead after just a few hours (power off did not work correctly?), and when I try to order with Firefox or IE at their website, it complains about me not putting in a phone number that there is no field for. First the battery pricing is lame, then the order system is junk. Nice.



The same thing happened to me - battery crapped out after about 5 hours use. I couldn't find the batteries for sale anywhere except from XpanD so I ordered two ten packs due to the high cost of shipping one ten pack. Additional shipping for the second ten pack was $1.99.


No matter how you cut it, the battery cost is exorbitant and it looks like the cost of operating my 2 pairs of X102s is going to be high. Any additional glasses will be Optomas (I have one pair [relatively inexpensive] on order at the present time).


Buzz


----------



## cyberized

As per Thread Subject: A REVIEW!


I just replaced my XPAND 102suds, which flickered alot and also went bright and then dark every so often.........with a pair of OPTOMA Glasses, they arrived yesterday and they operate like I expected the XpanD's to operate...NO flicker...smooth as Silk....and I find them to fit and feel much better over my perscription glasses. Also - with them you can by replacement batteries anywhere you are not FORCED to purchase custom made ones made by/for XpanD. Some have said that the Optomas' are not sturdy....I find that an ODD complaint - they seem just as stout or more so than the XpanDs.


----------



## Robness Monster

Glad to see more feedback concerning the different 3d glasses that are currently available. After doing a lot of research, I'm unfortunately still stuck between the Mistubishi glasses (that come with the starter kit) and the Optoma glasses. I like that you can replace the batteries on the Optoma glasses fairly easily, but am now wondering which one has the better 3d image? Last I read, when using the Mistu 3d glasses, there were known issues with the 3d picture quality when using a Mitsu DLP from 2009 prior. If that's the case, would that mean at this point in time, can we definitively say that the Optomas would be my best best?


Since I have a Mitsubishi 70c9, I would really appreciate it if someone could give me their honest recommendation between the two that I'm stuck between. I'm going to be ordering at least 4 pairs of glasses to be used by adults, so I want to make sure I end up with the right ones from the get-go.


Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Been wanting to pull the trigger for a while now, but want to make sure I'm now going to misspend hundreds of dollars...


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robness Monster* /forum/post/19085998
> 
> 
> Glad to see more feedback concerning the different 3d glasses that are currently available. After doing a lot of research, I'm unfortunately still stuck between the Mistubishi glasses (that come with the starter kit) and the Optoma glasses. I like that you can replace the batteries on the Optoma glasses fairly easily, but am now wondering which one has the better 3d image? Last I read, when using the Mistu 3d glasses, there were known issues with the 3d picture quality when using a Mitsu DLP from 2009 prior. If that's the case, would that mean at this point in time, can we definitively say that the Optomas would be my best best?
> 
> 
> Since I have a Mitsubishi 70c9, I would really appreciate it if someone could give me their honest recommendation between the two that I'm stuck between. I'm going to be ordering at least 4 pairs of glasses to be used by adults, so I want to make sure I end up with the right ones from the get-go.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Been wanting to pull the trigger for a while now, but want to make sure I'm now going to misspend hundreds of dollars...



I have a Mits 73C9 and preferred the X102s (have prescription glasses) over the Mits kit glasses. I liked the fit better, and they seemed to let less light in. I've never had a problem with flickering, rainbows, ghosting, or loss of sync with any of my 4 pairs of x102s (SUD models I believe).


----------



## ksupilot7

I ordered two pairs from Projectorzone.com for $81 each and paid for the 2 day shipping and then came on time. Initial impression is they are pretty solid but a little on the heavy side. They came packaged in a sturdy box and came with 3 nose sizes.


As for the comfort level, they feel a little heavy, and for my big head they were tight just above the ears. I tried all three nose pieces and couldn't really get comfortable with any of them. I finally settled on the medium sized one. Hopefully they will break in over time and get looser on my head.

I am using these glasses with a Mits 60C9.


As for the performance of the glasses, all I can say is wow. I was shocked at how well the 3D picture looked on the demo disk for the Panny 300, and Cloudy w a chance of meatballs.


The teal color of 3d mode disappeared, and the blacks were perfect, the colors were bright, and i didn't notice hardly any brightness loss. I think I saw a little bit of rainbows on the brighter grand canyon scene, but it didn't bother me and was only there for a little bit on the screen. So far, I am happy with these glasses other than being a little tight on my head.


----------



## turls




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenisG* /forum/post/19084728
> 
> 
> Have you tried tru3d.com?



The price was more per battery for a smaller quantity. I guess I'll try again by phone or maybe the web site was broken.


----------



## bcterp

I've had some time to compare the Mitsuhishi glasses, Xpand X102's, and Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses side by side on my Mitsubishi WD-73837 (2009 model). I used directv content, downloaded movie trailers and PS3 games.


Let me make it clear that the worst picture quality clearly belongs to the Mitsubishi glasses, it's not even close. The blacks are lighter and cyan, some users may not notice it if they aren't viewing in a dark room or have nothing to compare them to but when compared side by side to DLP-Link glasses it is unmistakable. They also dim the picture more than the DLP-Link glasses and the colors are skewed to the blue side. The only positive I can think of is that they are much lighter and more comfortable than the other glasses and do not have the polarization rainbows. A 2010 Mitsubishi owner will likely have better results with these glasses as they can turn off the DLP-Link light flashes that cause the crushed blacks and cyan tint, I however have no firsthand experience with this.


The Xpands and Optomas both have fairly good 3D picture quality however the Optomas are IMHO the better choice for a few reasons. Both of these glasses eliminate the cyan tint of the blacks, the Optomas however have noticeably deeper blacks. The blacks are quite amazing actually with these glasses yet they do not dim the overall picture more than the Xpands. I also like the colors slightly better with the Optomas, the Xpands seem to have a very slight green skew when compared side by side, this is very subtle however and shouldn't be a concern. The Optomas also have use a standard battery as compared to the proprietary one in the Xpands. Both glasses are fairly bulky and heavy. It's kind of a tie when it comes to comfort as the shape of your head will likely determine what fits best.


Both of the DLP link glasses use the reverse mode while the Mitsubishi pair uses normal so they can't be used together. With both DLP link glasses I can see the polarization rainbows (looks like a purple/green streak in the upper corners of the TV). This is not present at all on the Mitsubishi glasses. These are mostly visible in whites and blues, such as a white backdrop or sky scene. They are virtually invisible at all other times. While this is a concern for me, I consider this to be much more tolerable than the problems presented by the Mitsubishi glasses. If the manufacturers of these glasses would rotate the polarization of the lenses about 20 degrees or so the rainbows would be completely gone. I have not gotten a chance to try and contact Xpand and Optoma about this but I will soon.


In my opinion an owner of a pre-2010 Mitsubishi DLP should get the Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses. They have the best picture quality and are the cheapest.


----------



## destiny 21

i have the 2010 mits 73838 and the 3d with the mits glasses is fantastic bright colors graat blacs and no rainbows


----------



## Athlon646464

*BCTERP* - Thanks for your great review!


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19088521
> 
> 
> I've had some time to compare the Mitsuhishi glasses, Xpand X102's, and Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses side by side on my Mitsubishi WD-73837 (2009 model). I used directv content, downloaded movie trailers and PS3 games.
> 
> 
> Let me make it clear that the worst picture quality clearly belongs to the Mitsubishi glasses, it's not even close. The blacks are lighter and cyan, some users may not notice it if they aren't viewing in a dark room or have nothing to compare them to but when compared side by side to DLP-Link glasses it is unmistakable. They also dim the picture more than the DLP-Link glasses and the colors are skewed to the blue side. The only positive I can think of is that they are much lighter and more comfortable than the other glasses and do not have the polarization rainbows. A 2010 Mitsubishi owner will likely have better results with these glasses as they can turn off the DLP-Link light flashes that cause the crushed blacks and cyan tint, I however have no firsthand experience with this.
> 
> 
> The Xpands and Optomas both have fairly good 3D picture quality however the Optomas are IMHO the better choice for a few reasons. Both of these glasses eliminate the cyan tint of the blacks, the Optomas however have noticeably deeper blacks. The blacks are quite amazing actually with these glasses yet they do not dim the overall picture more than the Xpands. I also like the colors slightly better with the Optomas, the Xpands seem to have a very slight green skew when compared side by side, this is very subtle however and shouldn't be a concern. The Optomas also have use a standard battery as compared to the proprietary one in the Xpands. Both glasses are fairly bulky and heavy. It's kind of a tie when it comes to comfort as the shape of your head will likely determine what fits best.
> 
> 
> Both of the DLP link glasses use the reverse mode while the Mitsubishi pair uses normal so they can't be used together. With both DLP link glasses I can see the polarization rainbows (looks like a purple/green streak in the upper corners of the TV). This is not present at all on the Mitsubishi glasses. These are mostly visible in whites and blues, such as a white backdrop or sky scene. They are virtually invisible at all other times. While this is a concern for me, I consider this to be much more tolerable than the problems presented by the Mitsubishi glasses. If the manufacturers of these glasses would rotate the polarization of the lenses about 20 degrees or so the rainbows would be completely gone. I have not gotten a chance to try and contact Xpand and Optoma about this but I will soon.
> 
> 
> In my opinion an owner of a pre-2010 Mitsubishi DLP should get the Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses. They have the best picture quality and are the cheapest.



will the optoma work with a hlt5687s led 3d ready tv.thanks


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19089091
> 
> 
> will the optoma work with a hlt5687s led 3d ready tv.thanks



Don't know, but this is a DLP thread.........


----------



## bcterp

I was reading the user manual for Viewsonic's PGD-150 glasses and noticed that you can reverse the 3D mode. I assume this means that the sync order can be changed to work with IR glasses. The Optomas do not do this and I thought it was worth mentioning. Amazon finally shipped out a batch of these according to a post I just read. They look identical to the Optomas but it seems there is at least one difference.


----------



## walford

Can you provide a link to the Viewsonic glasses user's manual?


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19089704
> 
> 
> Can you provide a link to the Viewsonic glasses user's manual?


 http://www.viewsonic.com/assets/070/15952.pdf 


See page 5 for how to invert them.


----------



## walford

Very interesing since they are apparetly not the same as the Optimas as previously reported.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Athlon646464* /forum/post/19089106
> 
> 
> Don't know, but this is a DLP thread.........



that model is a 3d dlp


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19089966
> 
> 
> that model is a 3d dlp



Whoops, my bad. I saw LED in his description, and well, screwed up. I apologize to the guy with the question.


In that case, the Optima's should work just fine.


See here for info from the Samsung web site: http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/...=153&EMAIL_ID= 


Thank you for correcting me!


----------



## racerman56




Athlon646464;19089716
See page 5 for how to invert them.[/QUOTE said:


> The Optoma's do this as well.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *racerman56* /forum/post/19093583
> 
> 
> The Optoma's do this as well.



Not the optomas I had. They had one sync order. Pushing power again switched to modes where both eyes synced to left only or to right only so only 2D. There was no way I know of to switch sync order for 3D. I asked optoma and they referred to changing the sync order in the projector/tv instead.


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *racerman56* /forum/post/19093583
> 
> 
> The Optoma's do this as well.




How do you know? Do you have a pair, or is it in their manual as well (which I could not find online).


In either case, please tell us how it is done.


This would be great news!


----------



## racerman56

I do have a pair, and I have them working in normal mode, as compared to the reverse mode. Now I am unable to get them to work again in reverse mode though.... It is very odd...


----------



## walford

Yes the Optima will work in normal mode, however, you will be looking at the images crosseyed and they will therefore have noware near the 3D quality level that they have in reverse mode.


----------



## twoody

A couple of points on the X102.


The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.


If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.


You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.


The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.


Hope this helps.


Tom


----------



## twoody




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *turls* /forum/post/19083922
> 
> 
> So has anybody ordered batteries for the X102's from Xpand successfully? My first battery is dead after just a few hours (power off did not work correctly?), and when I try to order with Firefox or IE at their website, it complains about me not putting in a phone number that there is no field for. First the battery pricing is lame, then the order system is junk. Nice.



Call Rorey at 310-309-6705


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19101804
> 
> 
> A couple of points on the X102.
> 
> 
> The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.
> 
> 
> If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.
> 
> 
> You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.
> 
> 
> The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Tom



Can you please provide an technical explanation of how an a IR signal from an emitter "corrupts" the white flash from being received by the DLP-Link glases?

Is is due to a design deficiency in the X102Glases. Will the same "corrution" occur with the X104 glases which I understood will be able to receive both types of signals concurently?


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19101804
> 
> 
> A couple of points on the X102.
> 
> 
> The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.
> 
> 
> If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.
> 
> 
> You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.
> 
> 
> The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Tom



I have used the Mitsubishi IR glasses at the same time as a pair of X102 glasses without any problem. They sync opposite of each other so one pair must be worn upside down. I only did this to test picture quality as it is not feasible to wear glasses upside down. However there was never a problem with either pair losing sync when in use at the same time. I have recessed CFL lighting and it is impossible to have these lights on while using my DLP-Link glasses, there is non-stop flickering in the glasses as they can not keep sync. As soon as I turn off these lights the sync is perfectly stable.


----------



## turls




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19102052
> 
> 
> Call Rorey at 310-309-6705



I got it taken care of and got some batteries ordered. The shipping cost is a crime. I'm done with Xpand, I just ordered Optoma for the 2nd pair.


Now I'll have 2 Nvidia 3D Vision and 2 DLP Link, I hope I'm done for a while.


----------



## Waltm

I received my first pair of Optoma DLP link glasses yesterday and tried them with Avatar on the XBox, full checkerboard output, viewed on a 73-737. They blank the DLP sync pulse and return the picture to it's normal black levels and nothing looks washed out when viewed through the glasses. I didn't notice any polarization bands but there weren't any really bright scenes either. The Mits has 3D mode in standard and the 3d effect looks great. I've only viewed this one game with this setup so other sources might be reversed, I still need the adapter for that. I was playing around with the button and cycling through the modes (alternating, left only, right only) on the glasses before viewing through them so I'm not sure If I changed something or if this is how they came.


Update: I've tried viewing a checkerboard video clip and that does require a reverse setting for the Optoma glasses. I guess I'll change the XBox settings to reverse so the Mits can stay in reverse mode for both games and video.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19101804
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.
> 
> 
> The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.



Tom, thanks for joining in, we appreciate the insight. Will the X103 and X104 properly blank out the DLP link flash? This seems to be causing an issue for people trying to use IR synced glasses with DLP link televisions that do not have the ability to turn off DLP link. Also, will these glasses be able to reverse sync to match up with x102 and Mits glasses already in use?


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenisG* /forum/post/19075732
> 
> 
> Those went for some ridiculous amount of money.
> 
> I emailed XpanD and they do in fact make the nose pieces. I am now waiting to see about how I go about ordering some.
> 
> Oh, and they sent pic's of them.



Got a follow up.


> Quote:
> Robber nose pieces will shortly be available to be purchased on line.
> 
> Please check our site and order from there directly.
> 
> Kind regards,


----------



## Illogical_Mind

I'm sold.


I have a Samsung HLT-6176s and a PS3. I'm ordering the optoma glasses right now. Obviously just a start, I'm going to rent the Avatar game and order the gefen and 3da-1 individually piece by piece. Have a friend that works at best buy to get the EDID.


There are so many places to get these things, but I'm going to Tigerdirect.com because I use them a lot. $89.99.


Thanx for all the reviews guys. I'll be posting my own review in a couple of days to keep the ball rolling.


----------



## Robness Monster

Does anyone know if Optoma plans to be releasing another version of their glasses in the coming weeks/months ahead? So far, I've appreciated all the glowing reviews members have been sharing, but the only downside I'm reading is that they're a bit bulky/heavy. Does anyone know if there is a release date for new Optoma glasses that will be more mainstream and address these concers? If so, it would make sense for some of us to wait, but if these were recently released and we want to start enjoying 3d relatively soon, these may be our best best for the time being.


----------



## buzzard767

I've been using two pair of XpanD X102s for several weeks. Today I received two pair of Optoma ZD101s, one each from two separate vendors. I put on some 3D content, the Panasonic demo disk, to see how they compared. The Blu-Ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BDT350 and my display is a Samsung HL67A750 LED DLP. Both glasses sync the same and require the display to be set in the 3D reverse (Mode2) mode.


Performance wise, they are very close, too close to call. Both produce a fine, crosstalk free picture and I enjoy watching 3D content equally.


Without putting a meter on them, I subjectively suspect that the Optomas "might" be ever so slightly brighter than the XpanDs. The reason I think this is because the rainbow effect is a tad more noticeable with the Optomas. However, the viewing was accomplished in a brightly lit room and the human iris plays tricks when switching from one set of glasses to the other.


The rainbow effect disappears if the glasses are tilted 45 degrees sideways. It's the same with both brands. When I do this I notice that objects in the background tend to lose focus. The rainbow effect may or may not be more noticeable on the Samsung DLP display relative to a Mitsubishi. Since I'll never have the opportunity to view them both side by side I'll make no further comment except to say that the rainbow effect doesn't bother me at all. I know it's there, I see it, but then I forget about it and watch the content. Your experience may differ.


The XpanDs use proprietary batteries. The manufacturers web site states that replacements are available from them and authorized retailers. I checked several retailers sites and couldn't find any batteries for sale so at least for now it looks as if replacements can only be acquired from XpanD. They are expensive when shipping costs are included but have a long life - 120 hours advertised. Replacement is a PITA until you learn the proper technique. One thing makes changing them considerably easier. There is a rubber O ring used as a water seal and the friction it creates makes removing and installing a bit difficult. I'm not planning on running my glasses through the washing machine so removal of the O ring greatly reduced the effort required to screw and unscrew them.


The Optomas use two common CR2032 batteries and the usable viewing time is said to be 70 hours. Over time, total battery cost should be about the same between the XpanDs and the Optomas. However, the Optoma batteries can be found at your nearest hardware/pharmacy/gas station etc.


Comfort: You'd think the XpanDs at 2.5 ounces would be a little more comfortable than the Optomas at 2.9 but it doesn't make any difference. In fact, with the three interchangeable nose pieces that come with the Optomas I find them a little more to my liking.


The XpanDs turn themselves off automatically after a period of time when no DLP-Link signal is sensed. The Optomas will fool you. You can press the power button and lose the 3D effect but the glasses are still powered. You need to press and hold the power button for three or four seconds before the power is turned off - indicated by the room (as seen through the lenses) brightening up and staying that way. The manual states, "To turn off 3D Glasses Press the power button and hold until the LED switches off" I'll go with that but the positive way to see that the power is off is to look through the glasses and see it as it happens.


Shipping box/packing: The XpanDs come loose in a box with bubble wrap protecting the lenses. A battery is installed. There is also a spare battery, battery changing tool, and an instruction manual included. The Optomas come protected by form fitting foam including the three nose pieces in their own little slots as can be seen in the accompanying picture. The batteries are factory installed and there are no extras. There is also an instruction manual included but the on/off button information is less than clear. If you don't turn them off properly the 70 hour battery life will be used up in three days time.


I'll watch a little more 3D tonight in the dark and see if it makes any difference re: the above observations and opinions.


Buzz


----------



## twoody




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19102354
> 
> 
> Can you please provide an technical explanation of how an a IR signal from an emitter "corrupts" the white flash from being received by the DLP-Link glases?
> 
> Is is due to a design deficiency in the X102Glases. Will the same "corrution" occur with the X104 glases which I understood will be able to receive both types of signals concurently?




I can't disclose the details but I can discuss in general how it works.


The TI white flash detection algorithm looks for the white pulse (x us wide) to occur at a certain time in between the left and right fields. The left and right fields are separated by a ms or so, controlled by the TI DLP Link firmware. In addition there has to also be a certain amount of no video or signal below a given level on either side of the pulse set by a comparator threshold. Since the X102 photodetector sees all visible light and even IR up to 1100nm there can be stray sources of IR that may occur on either side of the white pulse that may or may not cause the algorithm to reject a lock on the pulse. Once the algorithm sees a clean pulse x number of times in a row then sync occurs. This corruption does not seem to occur with Mits & Sam TVs since I believe they make sure the protocols do not interfere, but that is a guess on my part. I have mostly focussed on the front projectors for the education market to make sure I understand the issues in that market.


The X103 is IR and support multiple TV protocols.

I can't speak to the X104 as yet other than what you see on the XpanD website.


Does that help?


Tom


----------



## walford

Gotcha I think, Thank you for the explanation.

1.If the X102 glases not receive IR frequecies in addition to visual light a problem between DLP-link and IR signals would not occur.

2 As far as you know both the Mits and Samsung RP DLP TV insure that the protocols do not interfere with each other on their TVs.



So the issue when using DLP-Link glases and IR emitter glases concurently on the Mits and Samsung systems is that currently the both Mits and Samsung only allow you to set Normal or Reverse mode for both types of glases at the same time and therefore they can conflict depending on the "standard" mode used by the IR emitter and it's corresponding glases. So for example if you could reverse the Mits IR glases independently of the TV's own Normal/Reverse setting then there would be no conflict possibilities.


----------



## buzzard767




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19107616
> 
> 
> So the issue when using DLP-Link glases and IR emitter glases concurently on the Mits and Samsung systems is that currently the both Mits and Samsung only allow you to set Normal or Reverse mode for both types of glases at the same time and therefore they can conflict depending on the "standard" mode used by the IR emitter and it's corresponding glases. So for example if you could reverse the Mits IR glases independently of the TV's own Normal/Reverse setting then there would be no conflict possibilities.



walford, the "issue" is in your mind. People own one type of display or another and will not have a mixed bag of glasses by different manufacturers for their one and only 3D display.


Buzz


----------



## bcterp

Tom,


I was hoping that you could offer some insight into what many of us refer to as polarization rainbows when wearing X102 or Optoma DLP-Link glasses. The green/purple discoloration in the upper left corner of the screen is actually a little worse in person than what I could capture in the picture. It is always in the same place and is most noticeable on a bright background such as a white backdrop or a sky scene. This also appears on the upper right hand side of the screen as well. They are completely static and can be seen through both my DLP-link glasses whether they are on or off. Seating position makes no difference. It doesn't matter if 3D mode is on or off either. A 45 degree tilt of the head makes them disappear. With the Mits glasses they are nonexistent when viewing normally, unless you tilt your head 45 degrees, then they appear just as in this pic. No idea what component causes this but some members of this forum suggested that the polarization of the Mitsubishi/Samsung glasses must be rotated 45 degrees in comparison to the other glasses to correct for this.


Do you have any insight into this? Would it be possible to ever incorporate this into your glasses? DLP-Link glasses have much better picture quality over the Mitsubishi glasses because the Mits glasses do not block out the DLP-Link flash and it causes a washed out teal color. If it wasn't for these rainbows the DLP-Link glasses would be perfect.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzard767* /forum/post/19107715
> 
> 
> walford, the "issue" is in your mind. People own one type of display or another and will not have a mixed bag of glasses by different manufacturers for their one and only 3D display.
> 
> 
> Buzz



There are several people on this forum with this issue. It is not merely academic as you seem to suggest.


For instance, some may prefer the crisp blacks of DLP-Link glasses over the Mits kit glasses, but want their children to wear the Samsung child-sized emitter glasses (which are compatible with the emitter from the Mits kit). That was my situation and I've heard others say the same thing.


So, having the ability to change the sync order of the DLP-Link glasses independently of the TV's setting would be a big plus.


----------



## Waltm

Update to a previous post: I've tried viewing a checkerboard video clip and that does require a reverse setting for the Optoma glasses. I guess I'll change the XBox settings to reverse so the Mits can stay in reverse mode for both games and video.


----------



## buzzard767




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19107995
> 
> 
> There are several people on this forum with this issue. It is not merely academic as you seem to suggest.
> 
> 
> For instance, some may prefer the crisp blacks of DLP-Link glasses over the Mits kit glasses, but want their children to wear the Samsung child-sized emitter glasses (which are compatible with the emitter from the Mits kit). That was my situation and I've heard others say the same thing.
> 
> 
> So, having the ability to change the sync order of the DLP-Link glasses independently of the TV's setting would be a big plus.



Great point. I didn't think of that possibility. Now, what to do about my grandchildren when they visit?










I owe walford one too. I read on another thread that he is a retired engineer deeply interested in the evolution of HD and 3D. That explains a lot.







(again)


My personal interest in 3D, besides being a viewer who will never get enough 3D sports content, is in display calibration. Placing shutter glasses between the display and the meter is difficult enough, but having to calibrate each different model of glasses could be a nightmare. I now have both the Optoma and XpanD DLP-Links as well as Samsung rechargeable IRs. Rainbows be damned, I've decided to go all DLP-Link because 1) DLP 3D is just plain better, and 2) I want large screens at both my residences. Between the present day high cost of big screen LCD/Plasma and crosstalk issues, I'll wait for technological improvements before replacing DLP with something else.


Buzz


----------



## twoody




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzzard767* /forum/post/19107715
> 
> 
> walford, the "issue" is in your mind. People own one type of display or another and will not have a mixed bag of glasses by different manufacturers for their one and only 3D display.
> 
> 
> Buzz



What started part of this mixed glasses discussion was a post bysfetaz on 8-18. He bought the Mits starter kit (2 Samsung glasses) and then bout one pair of X102 to have third pair. They are opposite sync.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19109875
> 
> 
> What started part of this mixed glasses discussion was a post bysfetaz on 8-18. He bought the Mits starter kit (2 Samsung glasses) and then bout one pair of X102 to have third pair. They are opposite sync.



This was discovered way before that.


----------



## twoody

OK, that was when I first started looking at this forum due to a link from a customer having that question.


----------



## twoody

I believe the X103 design will take care of this. I will forward the issue to mgt.

No plans to modify the X102 for TV as the market is front 3D projection.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19110061
> 
> 
> I believe the X103 design will take care of this. I will forward the issue to mgt.



Take care of reverse sync relative to other emitter glasses, take care of rainbows, or take care of the blue-green blacks?


If all three, you've got a winner. Tell mgt that.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19110470
> 
> 
> Take care of reverse sync relative to other emitter glasses, take care of rainbows, or take care of the blue-green blacks?
> 
> 
> If all three, you've got a winner. Tell mgt that.



Tom,


I understand if you don't want to get into in depth discussions on this forum regarding issues with these Mitsubishi TV's. But please pass along the concerns I posted regarding the polarization rainbows several posts back and also regarding the DLP-Link light flashes on these rear projection TV's. I consider this a Mitsubishi issue, not an X102 issue, but your help would be greatly appreciated.


Will the the X103 glasses block out the DLP-Link light flash? Mitsubishi's IR glasses do not and the result is crushed blacks that are cyan in color.


The only pair of glasses I have seen fully block out the light flash is the Optoma BG-ZD101, the X102's do an OK job but the Optoma glasses have black levels in 3D mode that are just as deep as 2D without any overall brightness loss or discolored blacks. But both the X102's and BG-ZD101 glasses are far better than the Mitsubishi glasses.


Your input or just passing along these concerns would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for commenting on this forum.


----------



## twoody

Will do


----------



## FilmMixer

I have a barely used (


----------



## Alan M

A little off topic here but a idea was brought up earlier in a thread and now I am waiting to try it. I have the xpand x102's and as we all know it is a p.i.t.a. getting the batteries cheaply so I am gonna be a test pilot on this one and will give the results. First of all I have taken the O ring off the the proprietary battery housing and it makes them extremely easier to replace without making them sloppy (way nicer I highly recommend this if you have no worries of getting them wet). I can actually take them out and put them in now without the tool. Secondly I have ordered 2 chargers and 2 LIR 2032 3v batteries. Heres a link ( I used this one because the others on ebay are for 3.6 v 2032's and these said they were 3v and were the only ones I could find that were a exact voltage match).

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Li-Ion-Button-...item3a5d4cc520 


It's a P.I.T.A. as well but I carefully opened the housing on the proprietary batteries (had 2 dead ones) and I plan on putting the LIR rechargeable ones from the link in the housing carefully and gluing them shut (hoping they fit the same). Then I will use alligator clips to attach the posts on the battery to the posts on the charger. And with any luck I will have rechargeable batteries for the xpand 102's and not have to deal with the cost of the batteries or the $20 shipping from xpand for 10 batteries around $45 total(B.S. if you ask me). One thing I feel I should mention is the fact that these LIR 2032 batteries need to be charged 2 at a time to control the voltage while charging(I ordered 2 sets so I could have 4 of the batteries and an extra charger for when I get the next 2 pairs of glasses,will probably try the Optomas or viewsonics this time why not). So anyway the batteries and chargers are in the mail and should see them within the week. I will complete the surgery and let everyone know if it works (keeping my fingers crossed but pretty sure it will work). The total with shipping for 2 sets of these was cheaper (A little over $25 shipped) then a 5 pack of the proprietary 1's with free ship from tru3d so It will be a huge discount if this works. Yet again I will leave my results good or bad once I get them and complete the surgery. Have a nice day all.


----------



## high def mon

Just got off the phone with a csr from Monster/Bitcauldron and he said late Nov. for a release date.


----------



## jjknatl

Can anyone with a 2010 Mits TV and DLP Link glasses of any brand tell me if you can see the polarization rainbows?


Or, if you have a 2010 Mits TV and the Mits kit glasses, if you tilt your head at 45 degrees, do you see polarization rainbows?


Curious to see if Mits eliminated this issue for the 2010 model.


----------



## Illogical_Mind

I just got my optomas and they run in standard mode 1 NOT mode 2 on my television.


I'm running a Samsung HL-T6176s. I think its an 07. PS3 with Avatar. Everything is set to standard not inverted. I don't have emitter glasses to compare, but mode 2 looks absolutely terrible. Mode 1.


So anybody having trouble with dlp links, don't just goto mode 2


I've yet to see the rainbows either. I'm really happy that I don't have all the issues everybody complains about with these setups...


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Illogical_Mind* /forum/post/19153506
> 
> 
> I just got my optomas and they run in standard mode 1 NOT mode 2 on my television.



Try a different 3D source. You may find that the mode is content specific. Others have commented that some PS3 games are opposite mode from other sources.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19156411
> 
> 
> Try a different 3D source. You may find that the mode is content specific. Others have commented that some PS3 games are opposite mode from other sources.



Between avatar, Directv, video clips from my pc, and the 3d ps3 games on PSN, I have found that avatar syncs opposite of all others. You can change the sync in game though to match the others.


----------



## Illogical_Mind

ya. I figured it was the software. But my gefen hasn't gotten here yet so i can't check the others.


Its probably because its software driven from the game and not the system firmware


----------



## nicholc2

Looks like the x104 will be the glasses to get. It supports everything. Hopefully it'll be the ultimate buy. One good thing if you have a DLP is you can buy it and if you don't like the DLP Link look you can use the same glasses with the emitter which is way cool!


----------



## walford

Certrainly the X104 glases will be an improvement but if they don't have a switch in them to reverse the eys signals like the Viewsonics do then you won't be able to always use them in your neighbors home.


----------



## nicholc2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19195449
> 
> 
> Certrainly the X104 glases will be an improvement but if they don't have a switch in them to reverse the eys signals like the Viewsonics do then you won't be able to always use them in your neighbors home.



Well all I really care about is that they work in my home.










Are the Viewsonic's better? The thing I like about the x104 is it states that you can use it with emitter OR dlp link, so I can get just the glasses and no emitter and if I don't like it, I can pick up the emitter separately and still have usable glasses.


Are there any other mfg that also have this kind of interoperability?


----------



## Justin-Dawson

Unless you have a 2010 DLP, you'll want to go with DLP Link glasses as pre-2010 TVs display the DLP Link flash whether you're using an emitter or not... and from what I've read the Viewsonics and Optomas are far superior to the X102s (which I assume the X104s will be comparable to pertaining to DLP Link functionality). If you have a 2010 DLP, you might as well buy the X103s since they'll look good with your setup and be compatible with your friend's/your next TV.


Another thing to consider is price. If you have a pre 2010 DLP, you can buy the Optomas for half the price of the X104s.


----------



## buzzard767




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19195595
> 
> 
> Unless you have a 2010 DLP, you'll want to go with DLP Link glasses as pre-2010 TVs display the DLP Link flash whether you're using an emitter or not... and from what I've read the Viewsonics and Optomas are far superior to the X102s (which I assume the X104s will be comparable to pertaining to DLP Link functionality). If you have a 2010 DLP, you might as well buy the X103s since they'll look good with your setup and be compatible with your friend's/your next TV.
> 
> 
> Another thing to consider is price. If you have a pre 2010 DLP, you can buy the Optomas for half the price of the X104s.



I have both 102s and Optomas and cannot see any difference.


Buzz


----------



## Justin-Dawson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19088521
> 
> 
> I’ve had some time to compare the Mitsuhishi glasses, Xpand X102’s, and Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses side by side on my Mitsubishi WD-73837 (2009 model). I used directv content, downloaded movie trailers and PS3 games.
> 
> 
> Let me make it clear that the worst picture quality clearly belongs to the Mitsubishi glasses, it’s not even close. The blacks are lighter and cyan, some users may not notice it if they aren’t viewing in a dark room or have nothing to compare them to but when compared side by side to DLP-Link glasses it is unmistakable. They also dim the picture more than the DLP-Link glasses and the colors are skewed to the blue side. The only positive I can think of is that they are much lighter and more comfortable than the other glasses and do not have the polarization rainbows. A 2010 Mitsubishi owner will likely have better results with these glasses as they can turn off the DLP-Link light flashes that cause the crushed blacks and cyan tint, I however have no firsthand experience with this.
> 
> 
> The Xpands and Optomas both have fairly good 3D picture quality however the Optomas are IMHO the better choice for a few reasons. Both of these glasses eliminate the cyan tint of the blacks, the Optomas however have noticeably deeper blacks. The blacks are quite amazing actually with these glasses yet they do not dim the overall picture more than the Xpands. I also like the colors slightly better with the Optomas, the Xpands seem to have a very slight green skew when compared side by side, this is very subtle however and shouldn’t be a concern. The Optomas also have use a standard battery as compared to the proprietary one in the Xpands. Both glasses are fairly bulky and heavy. It’s kind of a tie when it comes to comfort as the shape of your head will likely determine what fits best.
> 
> 
> Both of the DLP link glasses use the reverse mode while the Mitsubishi pair uses normal so they can’t be used together. With both DLP link glasses I can see the polarization rainbows (looks like a purple/green streak in the upper corners of the TV). This is not present at all on the Mitsubishi glasses. These are mostly visible in whites and blues, such as a white backdrop or sky scene. They are virtually invisible at all other times. While this is a concern for me, I consider this to be much more tolerable than the problems presented by the Mitsubishi glasses. If the manufacturers of these glasses would rotate the polarization of the lenses about 20 degrees or so the rainbows would be completely gone. I have not gotten a chance to try and contact Xpand and Optoma about this but I will soon.
> 
> 
> In my opinion an owner of a pre-2010 Mitsubishi DLP should get the Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses. They have the best picture quality and are the cheapest.



I was just going by this review (as well as a few other comments in this thread). I have the Optomas on the way and haven't actually used the Xpands so I can't provide my personal opinion. I have read a number of posts complaining about sync issues with the X102s however. That, price and the proprietary battery led me to recommend the Optomas. The Viewsonics are suppose to be the same as the Optomas with the additional capability of being able to reverse the sync order (which comes in handy if you're mixing and matching brands of glasses). As with anything though, I'm sure it comes down to personal preference.


----------



## tonys10

Do the Optomas have an auto-shutoff?????


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonys10* /forum/post/19202209
> 
> 
> Do the Optomas have an auto-shutoff?????



Data sheet: http://marketing.optomausa.com/PDFs/..._Datasheet.pdf 


User Manual: http://marketing.optomausa.com/PDFs/...ZD101%20UM.pdf


----------



## Justin-Dawson

Well my Optomas finally got here... and don't work very well at all. I shouldn't say that - the picture quality is great, the 3d blew me away... but the glasses won't stay sync'd with my TV. I was a little weary about DLP Link and now I'm reminded why. I used the glasses with the Avatar game and from what I've read, if they don't stay sync'd with Avatar, you'll have issues with most 3d content. If they stay sync'd for you I'm jealous but mine are on their way back. I have a HLT5687S which is an LED based DLP so I can't even blame an old bulb.


Looking at the other options out there for glasses, I think my next pair are going to be the x103s. I'm definitely going with IR based glasses and I like that the x103s wrap around to block light coming from the side.


Will post results whenever I get the x103s... I am choked.


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19207659
> 
> 
> Well my Optomas finally got here... and don't work very well at all. I shouldn't say that - the picture quality is great, the 3d blew me away... but the glasses won't stay sync'd with my TV. I was a little weary about DLP Link and now I'm reminded why. I used the glasses with the Avatar game and from what I've read, if they don't stay sync'd with Avatar, you'll have issues with most 3d content. If they stay sync'd for you I'm jealous but mine are on their way back. I have a HLT5687S which is an LED based DLP so I can't even blame an old bulb.
> 
> 
> Looking at the other options out there for glasses, I think my next pair are going to be the x103s. I'm definitely going with IR based glasses and I like that the x103s wrap around to block light coming from the side.
> 
> 
> Will post results whenever I get the x103s... I am choked.



Do you have florescent or cfc light bulbs in the same room as your TV?


----------



## Justin-Dawson

I do not. In fact, at one point I was actually sitting in the dark and still couldn't get them to stay sync'd. I'm sure it was an issue with my TV but either way, looks like I'm going with the IR based emitter route.


----------



## knobby

do hlt5687s models have DLP Link support?


----------



## Athlon646464




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19212450
> 
> 
> do hlt5687s models have DLP Link support?



According to Samsung's data sheet, it is 3D ready.

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/pdf/dlp5687_final.pdf


----------



## Justin-Dawson

The HLT5687S definitely has DLP Link (as is the case with all DLP TVs I believe). The glasses were able to sync but any major color changes on the TV resulted in them becoming un-sync'd.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19215823
> 
> 
> The HLT5687S definitely has DLP Link (as is the case with all DLP TVs I believe). The glasses were able to sync but any major color changes on the TV resulted in them becoming un-sync'd.



When you have your TV in 3D mode and while not wearing 3d glasses, do you notice any change in characteristics of the image being displayed such as the teal haze that Mits TV owners see? Could the DLP Link flash be different in your set in terms of duration, frequency/color of the burst, etc. due to the LEDs?


----------



## Justin-Dawson

As soon as my TV switches into 3d mode, you can see the teal haze with the naked eye (compared to the black PS3 XMB menu background). As with the pre-2010 Mits TVs, there isn't anyway to turn the DLP Link flash off while viewing 3d.


Looking at content (in this case the Avatar game) with the naked eye, the haze isn't that noticeable which I'm guessing was the problem. The glasses would sync upon startup (covering and uncovering the sensor had the same effect) however wouldn't remain sync'd while playing the game. Interestingly enough, if I didn't move in the game, the glasses stayed sync'd. Every time I changed the camera or moved however would result in them immediately losing sync until I repeated the cover/uncover sensor technique. I think it might have been due to the Dynamic contrast setting on my Samsung which I read could inhibit the DLP Link functionality... but couldn't figure out how to turn it off while in 3d mode.


----------



## lxicon

I have a Samsung HL-T5689s DLP TV (2007) and a launch version 60GB fat PS3 and the True3D adapter package (Mitsubishi 3dA-1 adapter and the pre-programmed Geffen to make the adapter work with Samsung DLP TVs.) details here : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19228010 


I have ViewSonic PGD-150 glasses and they look great! no complaints, no issues so far.


I haven't rented a 3D blu-ray yet, but all 4 3D-enabled games/demos that came out earlier this summer work fine and look good.


When i turn on 3D mode, my TV the screen gets a red tint. The glasses completely adjust for that. I think the red tint is the DLP-Link "flash". the glasses must have the shutters closed when that happens. It's quite a difference if you take the glasses off and put them on.


I can't notice and cross-talk or flicker. I am really enjoying the ViewSonic PGD-150 glasses.


----------



## bontrager




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twoody* /forum/post/19110061
> 
> 
> I believe the X103 design will take care of this. I will forward the issue to mgt.
> 
> No plans to modify the X102 for TV as the market is front 3D projection.



When will the x103 become available in the states?


----------



## knobby

does anybody know where the viewsonics can be bought here in Canada.i mailed viewsonic got no reply.


----------



## jmcdon7230




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19242698
> 
> 
> does anybody know where the viewsonics can be bought here in Canada.i mailed viewsonic got no reply.



Why not buy them online?

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PGD-.../dp/B003ES5BJU


----------



## Justin-Dawson

I don't know if Americans know how tough we Canadians have it --> Amazon.com doesn't ship to Canada. Amazon.ca does but they only sell books, cd, movies and kindles... yep.


I bought the Optomas through tigerdirect.ca - $112.


----------



## Av8tr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19244022
> 
> 
> I don't know if Americans know how tough we Canadians have it --> Amazon.com doesn't ship to Canada. Amazon.ca does but they only sell books, cd, movies and kindles... yep.
> 
> 
> I bought the Optomas through tigerdirect.ca - $112.



I know. My Brother lives in Montreal. He is constantly buying things online and shipping them to my house. I then ship to him. I don't mind, but it can be a hassle filling out all the required paperwork.


----------



## xmotleyx

Actually, Amazon does ship items other than books. Just use the Amazon Global site to search. Both Optoma and viewsonic glasses can be found there. The site can be accessed through the international shipping section under help.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19244022
> 
> 
> I don't know if Americans know how tough we Canadians have it --> Amazon.com doesn't ship to Canada. Amazon.ca does but they only sell books, cd, movies and kindles... yep.
> 
> 
> I bought the Optomas through tigerdirect.ca - $112.



do you like optomas glasses and do they work well with your dlp.read one review where they lose sink with dlp tvs.what dlp set have you got.if they work well then i will buy these from tigerdirect.thanks


----------



## JackBarry

The 2010 Mitsu Dlp xx738 & 838 have a menu option to choose DLP Link which shut off the emitter. The older models without this option may work better with the link glasses. I think the distinction between the 2010 Mitsu and older models needs to be cited when comparing the type of glasses.


----------



## Illogical_Mind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19246015
> 
> 
> do you like optomas glasses and do they work well with your dlp.read one review where they lose sink with dlp tvs.what dlp set have you got.if they work well then i will buy these from tigerdirect.thanks



My optomas look fantastic. No color loss, and I have no rainbows,(that could be a TV thing tho), and they hold the signal without a problem. I Played my PS3 2 days ago at 12 Noon with all my lights on and they didn't drop out at all. Very impressed, considering the problems people have with lighting effecting them. I've had them for about a month. I play 2 hours or so at a shot a couple times a week. Batteries going strong. They need to start spitting out some more 3D games and videos soon though. These are getting old.


Samsung HL-T6176s w/Optomas, converter, geffen, & PS3.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Illogical_Mind* /forum/post/19249838
> 
> 
> My optomas look fantastic samsung HL-T6176s w/Optomas, converter, geffen, & PS3.



thanks i will be buying pair this week have samsung hlt 56 inch


----------



## lxicon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19244022
> 
> 
> I don't know if Americans know how tough we Canadians have it --> Amazon.com doesn't ship to Canada....



actually, amazon DID ship me the Viewsonics (i'm in Toronto). amazon is a bit weird about what they ship and what they wont. if you can get the item in Canada, they won't ship (like some games and CDs) but if it's not available in canada, you can usually get it from amazon.com.


* i ordered the ViewSonic PGD-150s back on June 18 2010 (before they were in stock) and they finally arrived September 01 2010.


p.s. i love the viewsonics. the styling is better than many 3D glasses i've seen, they perform really well, they use standard batteries (CR-2032) and the power button toggles between inverted and standard 3D mode. my setup is a PS3 and HL-T5689s (and the true3d adapter+geffen package).


the only downside i have found so far, is that they seem to be "adult male" sized. i don't think they would fit well on a small head. they do have multiple nose pieces but i don't know if they affect the size or are just replacements.


----------



## DenisG

How long do the batteries for the X102's last? The pre-installed battery didn't last very long at all. When not in use I put them back in there box they came in so they are in a dark place for storage.

I had bought 3 pairs.

First pair used the most. Went through a few demo disks and 4 movie viewing. By the 5th movie they were dead dead, would not turn on.

Second pair two or three movies then kept flickering on and off.

Third pair never used, when the first two had dead batteries I grabbed those and that battery was dead.

It wouldn't bother me that much if it wasn't that the batteries are a bit pricey.


----------



## Spoodily

Has anyone tried these Acer DLP Link glasses? They look like the Optoma and Viewsonic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acer-DLP-LINK-3D...item2309b7aa2d 


I am suprised there are not more DLP Link glasses available since Mitsubishi was using (forcing) DLP Link. I figured someone (Mitsubishi) would have made a pair that didn't make the polarization colors with the plastic of the screen.


----------



## bcterp

Benq also has a pair that looks a little different than the others:

http://www.benq.com/products/product...ag=68&ptag=264 


I haven't heard any reports from someone with a pair though. I would love to get a pair without the polarization rainbows.


----------



## knobby

Optoma and Viewsonic.are these glasses made by the same manufacturer just with different brand names


----------



## walford

AFAIK all of the 3D Projector glases are Xpand 102 models branded for the projector manufacturer.

Also yes the Optoma and Viewsonic appear to be made by the same manufacturer. However the switch in the Optoma branded frame allows you to watch in 2D mode by only being open for one eye, wheras the switch in the Viewsonic branded frame allows you to reverse the eye signals.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19255780
> 
> 
> AFAIK all of the 3D Projector glases are Xpand 102 models branded for the projector manufacturer.
> 
> Also yes the Optoma and Viewsonic appear to be made by the same manufacturer. However the switch in the Optoma branded frame allows you to watch in 2D mode by only being open for one eye, wheras the switch in the Viewsonic branded frame allows you to reverse the eye signals.



The pair of Optoma glasses I had performed better than the X102 glasses that I had. They seem to better block out the dlp-link flash and have noticeably darker black levels than the X102's. Also there is a different tint to the lenses. The X102 glasses had more of a greener tone to the colors while the Optoma's had a cooler tone. Just one guy's experience though.


----------



## Milmanias

The Xpand 102's also use proprietary batteries, and seem to lose sync more often than the Optoma or Viewsonic. Those Acers seem to be the same design as the latter two, though we don't know yet if they can be switched. If they can incorporate reversing the L/R shuttering like the Viewsonics, plus letting you watch 2D with either the L or R image, they'd be the most versatile of them.


----------



## taz291819

Watched MvA today around 1pm, very sunny outside. My X102s didn't lose sync a single time.


----------



## Av8tr

My Optomas just arrived today from Amazon and I'm not that impressed. I currently have the Mitsubishi/Samsung glasses and they are far more comfortable and lighter. I will say that the Optomas gave slightly better resolution and brightness, but not enough to make up in the difference in comfort level for me. Black levels seemed the same.


I'll be sending the Optomas back and hope that some manufacturer comes up with a comfortable pair that also gives a great 3D experience.


Off topic; found a great site that has hundreds of great 3d clips available to download. Many are free, but others you have to pay 5 Euros ($6.50) to get access for a month of downloading premium content.

http://www.biohemmet.se/


----------



## George Omoregie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19246015
> 
> 
> do you like optomas glasses and do they work well with your dlp.read one review where they lose sink with dlp tvs.what dlp set have you got.if they work well then i will buy these from tigerdirect.thanks



Greetings:

I have 3 of each types. You will not go wrong. I have mistu 82837 dlp.

Picture very impressive.

George T. Omoregie


----------



## Deja Vu

Can the Nvidia vision glasses be used with any type of 3D projector or T.V.? I assume the DLP link glasses can only be used with a DLP projector or T.V.


----------



## knobby

just ordered the mitz converter and gefin package.also will get viewsonics as the reviews seem excellent on their performance on hlt5687s tvs.thanks for your review


----------



## line62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19255981
> 
> 
> The pair of Optoma glasses I had performed better than the X102 glasses that I had. They seem to better block out the dlp-link flash and have noticeably darker black levels than the X102's. Also there is a different tint to the lenses. The X102 glasses had more of a greener tone to the colors while the Optoma's had a cooler tone. Just one guy's experience though.



I have two pairs of 102's that I bought at different times and noticed the same thing.


----------



## hceuterpe

So the Optomas won't work for me if I have the HLT-6187S (circa 2007) Samsung DLP?


How about the viewsonics? I'm leary of the X102 due to the proprietary battery.


----------



## walford

All Mits and Samsung 3D ready RP DLP TVs have can use either the X102s, the Optimas, or the Viewsoic DLP-Link glases


----------



## lxicon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hceuterpe* /forum/post/19330776
> 
> 
> So the Optomas won't work for me if I have the HLT-6187S (circa 2007) Samsung DLP?
> 
> How about the viewsonics? I'm leary of the X102 due to the proprietary battery.



the Optomas, Viewsonics and X102s will all work.


i have Viewsonics with my HLT 5689S (circa 2007) Samsung DLP.


----------



## knobby

just received a pair of viewsonic pgd-150 3d glasses for hlt5687s tv dont have the mits converter yet but my boy has avatar game for 360.hooked up 360 to hdmi3 set options in game menu to 3d and full checkerboard set tv to 3d mode but the glasses keep losing their sync when playing game.would you say this is a game software problem or glasses?i have adjusted brightness and contrast to every setting possible but they still lose sync.when 3d is working 3d effect is quite good.how does the game utilize the dlp sync?will it play correctly once hooked up to mits converter?


----------



## walford

Is there any possibility that the normal/reverse switch in the glases is loose?

How close is your son sitting to the TV?


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19339186
> 
> 
> Is there any possibility that the normal/reverse switch in the glases is loose?
> 
> How close is your son sitting to the TV?



no the switch seems to works fine but the glasses seem to lose 3d effect while playing in game when looking at the bright sky or water.just received the glasses on the 14 of this month.it seems to be a sync problem.we have sat close and far from set.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lxicon* /forum/post/19335158
> 
> 
> the Optomas, Viewsonics and X102s will all work.
> 
> 
> i have Viewsonics with my HLT 5689S (circa 2007) Samsung DLP.



have you tried avatar on the 360 using the in game checkerboard.our viewsonics keep losing sync.have the same tv as you.trying to figure out if it is the glasses or the game itself.


----------



## walford

Are they actually losing sync or are you just getting a lot of video crosstalk(ghosting) due the High contrast bright content of some scenes?


----------



## knobby

it seems to happen when the contrast is high in certain areas of the game.how do you know if this is a game problem or it is the glasses?i cant figure out if i have defective glasses or not.when you look at the power light on the game console you can see it flickering through the glasses.by the way thanks for your help.


----------



## Justin-Dawson

I had the same problem with the Optomas and Avatar for PS3. No matter what I did, I couldn't get them to stay sync'd.


The DLP Link has nothing to do with the software though as it's controlled through the TV. I sent the glasses back and went with the IR glasses in the Mits kit.


----------



## knobby




Justin-Dawson said:


> I had the same problem with the Optomas and Avatar for PS3. No matter what I did, I couldn't get them to stay sync'd.
> 
> 
> did you play or watch any other material with the glasses?if i change the screen size in avatar options to 85 inches even though i have a 56 inch tv it stays sync'd longer.its quite strange!


----------



## Spoodily

I don't have any dlp link glasses yet but have read other people say that certain light bulbs can trip the light sensor up in dlp link glasses. Have you checked that any and all other light sources aren't interferring?


I have a Mits dlp set and think I am going to go with the CrystalEyes 5 now that they are coming down in price.


----------



## Justin-Dawson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19341927
> 
> 
> did you play or watch any other material with the glasses?if i change the screen size in avatar options to 85 inches even though i have a 56 inch tv it stays sync'd longer.its quite strange!



I didn't try anything else with the glasses. Having glasses that work with some content and completely don't work with other content didn't interest me. The Samsung IR glasses are in the mail.


----------



## knobby

all the lights were out and they kept losing the signal.i hope it was just problematic with avatar game.will post results with the viewsonics when my mits converter kit with gefen arrives.


----------



## Justin-Dawson

Why didn't you just send them back? You're alright with them working sometimes?


----------



## knobby

i believe it is a flaw in the game engine and this will be a thing of the past when the mits converter and gefen arrive.if i am wrong live and learn.will post results so you can say told you so.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19339706
> 
> 
> it seems to happen when the contrast is high in certain areas of the game.how do you know if this is a game problem or it is the glasses?i cant figure out if i have defective glasses or not.when you look at the power light on the game console you can see it flickering through the glasses.by the way thanks for your help.



One problem I noticed with DLP-Link is that a very bright image that takes up a large portion of the screen (such as a bright white backdrop) will interfere with the sensor on the glasses. It will have problems picking up the DLP-Link light flashes that occur in between these very bright frames and temporary flicker/sync-loss will result. If your contrast isn't set too high this won't happen too often but it will happen from time to time while the bright image is on screen. This is one problem that emitter based glasses do not have. Also, the DLP-Link is controlled by the TV, not the game software.


----------



## pmalter0

I sent my XpanD 102s back because they wouldn't stay in synch when I moved up close to the screen--where I had to in order to achieve good immersion.


----------



## walford

One problem with all or almost all active shutter glases is that the Shutter for the closed eye is not 100% opaque so bright high contrast content from the open eye content tends to show through causing video crosstalk.

With DLP-Link glases if too close to the screen the intensity of the Link's light flash can overwhelm the glases and knock them out of sync.


----------



## jayoldschool

I'm about to order glasses to work with my Samsung HL67A750. Don't want the 102s, so any reason to choose the Viewsonics over the Optomas? I have the Optomas in my cart right now waiting to check out.


----------



## cyberized

All I can say -I like my Optomas! Had the 102's and was glad to get a refund on them!


----------



## walford

The Viewsonics and the Optimas are the same glases except for what the swith in the glases themselves does. With the Optimas the switch enables you to watch the content of only one eye and is for us by those who can not watch 3D content. The switch in the Viewsonic allows you to reveres the windows sync for the glases enabling you to use both DLP-Link and IR emitter glases on a RP DLP at the same time.


----------



## ptsaras




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cyberized* /forum/post/19354793
> 
> 
> All I can say -I like my Optomas! Had the 102's and was glad to get a refund on them!



Glad to hear they're working well. I've got a set that will arrive Thursday and I'm pumped to watch the Oregon UCLA game thursday night in 3D along with a lot of other stuff!


----------



## jayoldschool




> Quote:
> With the Optimas the switch enables you to watch the content of only one eye and is for us by those who can not watch 3D content. The switch in the Viewsonic allows you to reveres the windows sync for the glases enabling you to use both DLP-Link and IR emitter glases on a RP DLP at the same time.



Hmm, so do you think I should go for Viewsonics? My reasoning would be that the IR glasses might go down in price as 3D becomes more widespread, and the Viewsonics would allow my to use both types at the same time.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayoldschool* /forum/post/19355060
> 
> 
> Hmm, so do you think I should go for Viewsonics? My reasoning would be that the IR glasses might go down in price as 3D becomes more widespread, and the Viewsonics would allow my to use both types at the same time.



careful with the viewsonics.i have a samsung dlp hlt5687s and they lose sync.i have tried every setting possible on tv.then to top it off the darn arm snapped off.it wasn't because of rough handling.they have a weak point in the plastic.sure wish i had this to do over again.these are suppose to be for classroom use.going to contact viewsonic and see what they can do for me.


----------



## Quatre

I have a mint condtion pair (like new and only used a couple of times) of rare impossible to find and still super cool and perfectly working Samsung SSG-1000's that will be going on ebay soon if anyone wants them before that just pm soon.


----------



## knobby

lxicon maybe you can help me out with these glasses?when you turn them on do they flash or blink two times?i have the exact tv as you and they will not stay in sync.maybe my glasses are defective.this is truly frustrating.when i turn mine on they blink two times.


----------



## audiopho




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19354958
> 
> 
> The Viewsonics and the Optimas are the same glases except for what the swith in the glases themselves does. With the Optimas the switch enables you to watch the content of only one eye and is for us by those who can not watch 3D content. The switch in the Viewsonic allows you to reveres the windows sync for the glases enabling you to use both DLP-Link and IR emitter glases on a RP DLP at the same time.



Do Viewsonic glasses work best if I already own a 2009 Mits DLP as well as a couple pairs of Mits glasses?


----------



## EricUtah

I throw in my two cents on reviews:


(TV: Sammy HL67A750)


I have some IO Display Systems glasses that use an emitter purchased 5 months ago. They're the "3D DLP" glasses (not the Samsungs) here: http://www.i-glassesstore.com/dlp3dsystems.html . The ones I received are similar but not exactly like the picture. Powered on and off by folding up the frames. The overall construction and plastic materials are really crap, but they work fine with my TV. If you were to look at the craftsmanship on these you'd guess they sold for about 6 bucks or came free with a happy meal. At my house they can only be used at night because they don't block light from the sides - I end up seeing a reflection of my head and things behind me in daylight. A little uncomfortable on the nose. They're a little less expensive than competitors. Delicate hinges; wouldn't recommend for kids.


I recently bought the ViewSonic PGD-150 (an Optoma clone). Seemingly durable non-folding frames, spare batteries, large lenses, and the ability to reverse modes. This allows them to work with my IO glasses. 3 differently sized nosepieces; one was quite comfortable. $89 at Amazon. Overall pretty nice, but some rainbow polarization effects are seen against my 67A750. I've read similar complaints about Optomas on Mitsu screens. Effect more noticeable against flat bright scenes such as sky, underwater or a flat backdrop. No such problem with the IO glasses.


When watching a movie it's a toss-up over which pair I'll wear. Side by side comparison shows overall light/color passthrough on the Viewsonics is a bit better. No color skew on either one; just a bit dimmer on the IO glasses.


Final recommendation? The Viewsonic, but only if you can confirm no polarization rainbows with your model of TV. Otherwise keep looking.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19426221
> 
> 
> I throw in my two cents on reviews:



Does your Samsung TV create a teal or red haze when 3D mode is turned on and when viewed without either glasses on (presumably the DLP Link flash) ?


If so, and if the IO glasses filter out that haze once you put them on just as well as the Viewsonics, that is good to know. That is the magic combination: glasses that use the emitter and therefore don't lose sync on light scenes, don't have polarization rainbows on light scenes for susceptible TVs, don't ghost, don't overly dim the scene, AND do filter out the 3D mode haze from DLP Link.


Icing on the cake would be the options to reverse 3D sync like Viewsonics AND do 2D sync like the Optomas. A decent look, lightweight frame, and a comfortable fit would be nice also.


Now back to reality.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19426306
> 
> 
> Does your Samsung TV create a teal or red haze when 3D mode is turned on and when viewed without either glasses on (presumably the DLP Link flash) ?
> 
> 
> If so, and if the IO glasses filter out that haze once you put them on just as well as the Viewsonics, that is good to know.



Yes, the TV puts out the red tint when 3d mode is enabled, and yes, the IO glasses filter it out properly so blacks are normal. There's no mode select on them. I don't know if they are left or right frame based so they may or may not be compatible with what you've got. I've got about 16 hours on them and haven't ever had sync issues. I've spent 2 hours with the Viewsonics and haven't experienced issues there. I thought I saw them flicker at the peak of a couple of fade to black cut scenes, but the glasses sync so fast I can't be sure if they actually dropped or not.


I'm not kidding though; those IOs really are flimsy; their markups must be huge. Since the reflection problems make them unusable during the day, the dimming isn't too much of an issue since I'm watching 3d in the dark.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19426475
> 
> 
> Yes, the TV puts out the red tint when 3d mode is enabled, and yes, the IO glasses filter it out properly so blacks are normal. There's no mode select on them. I don't know if they are left or right frame based so they may or may not be compatible with what you've got.



I'm currently using the Mits/Sammy glasses. I believe the Samsung version of the IO glasses should work with the emitter from the Mits kit based on that emitter being compatible with the Samsung branded glasses, and presumably be compatible with the sync of the Mits/Sammy branded glasses. I may try a pair of the IOs and just use them when viewing alone, so that nobody is around to laugh at the sight of them.


Is buying them directly from IO the only way to get them; if not, anybody found them for a cheaper price than from IO?


----------



## waterman981




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19426475
> 
> 
> I'm not kidding though; those IOs really are flimsy; their markups must be huge. Since the reflection problems make them unusable during the day, the dimming isn't too much of an issue since I'm watching 3d in the dark.



You're right they are flimsy. I really wish the nose pieces were more comfortable. I have a hard time wearing them for an entire movie without taking them off to give my nose a break.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19426513
> 
> 
> I may try a pair of the IOs and just use them when viewing alone, so that nobody is around to laugh at the sight of them.
> 
> 
> Is buying them directly from IO the only way to get them; if not, anybody found them for a cheaper price than from IO?



A brief search revealed one reseller: http://www.electronics-expo.com/inde...&source=google and Amazon. (Search IOD 3d glasses).


That pic in the link above shows the emitter as well but I think that's a mistake. IO sells a standalone pair for $59 and the glasses+emitter for $74. Those are the generic 3d dlp labeled glasses -- not sure the difference between those and the ones labeled Samsung specific. (Edit: Noticed the Samsung specific model on the IO page says it's LCD/Plasma/DLP ready and the other is DLP only).


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19427032
> 
> 
> Those are the generic 3d dlp labeled glasses -- not sure the difference between those and the ones labeled Samsung specific. (Edit: Noticed the Samsung specific model on the IO page says it's LCD/Plasma/DLP ready and the other is DLP only).



IO seems to include an emitter with what they call DLP glasses. I guess they mean that the emitter works with DLP TV's (as opposed to the glasses being DLP Link glasses)?


Anyway, that being the case, the IO emitter is probably using a different protocol than the Samsung TV emitter (and the Mits kit emitter), so if you have a Mits kit, I'm guessing you need the Samsung version or a truly DLP Link capable version.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19427922
> 
> 
> ...the IO emitter is probably using a different protocol than the Samsung TV emitter (and the Mits kit emitter), so if you have a Mits kit, I'm guessing you need the Samsung version or a truly DLP Link capable version.



I have no evidence to support this one way or another, but I suspect that these emitters are the same. They use a 3-pin miniDIN VESA 3D-Sync socket on the TV. My emitter cable looks like a simple wire that terminates with 2 IR LEDs. There may be some vendor specific active electronics in that cable that I'm not aware of, but from the outside it looks pretty much like a simple set of flashing IR LEDs powered by the TV. My guess is that it would work with any glasses that support IR sync.


Does anyone have competing model IR glasses (Mits/Sammy/Panny/etc) combined in use at the same set up? That would help confirm.


----------



## walford

Different manufacturer's IR emitters and their corresponding glases operate at different IR frequencies. I beleive one of the reasons for this is so that different models can sit side by side on a showroom floor.


----------



## philnerd

Well I just got my Viewsonic DLP glasses and was able to compare them with my IO Systems glasses on my Samsung DLP. I literally held the glasses on top of each other and just moved them up and down to compare. While the IO glasses certainly get the job done, and are affordable, the Viewsonics are clearly superior.

* Brighter

* No uneven dimming at lens edges like the IOs (creates some crosstalk)

* More comfortable

* Several size nose pieces

* Sturdier


The quality and comfort difference is enough that I just placed an order for a second pair today. I'm not gonna knock the IO glasses too much though, they've worked well, they were quite affordable, and they were shipping when the Viewsonics were still vaporware.


----------



## nescosmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philnerd* /forum/post/19450699
> 
> 
> Well I just got my Viewsonic DLP glasses and was able to compare them with my IO Systems glasses on my Samsung DLP. I literally held the glasses on top of each other and just moved them up and down to compare. While the IO glasses certainly get the job done, and are affordable, the Viewsonics are clearly superior.
> 
> * Brighter
> 
> * No uneven dimming at lens edges like the IOs (creates some crosstalk)
> 
> * More comfortable
> 
> * Several size nose pieces
> 
> * Sturdier
> 
> 
> The quality and comfort difference is enough that I just placed an order for a second pair today. I'm not gonna knock the IO glasses too much though, they've worked well, they were quite affordable, and they were shipping when the Viewsonics were still vaporware.




How much did you paid and were did you buy it from, I wll love to get a set.


----------



## philnerd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nescosmo* /forum/post/19452376
> 
> 
> How much did you paid and were did you buy it from, I wll love to get a set.


 http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PGD-...9230968&sr=8-1 


$89 and back in stock at this time.


----------



## Tenniselbow

Just bought a MTS 82738 and was wondering which DLP glasses to buy. I am left eye dominant but rest of family is right handed and most likely right eye dominant.


Considering Viewsonic and Optima glasses, since the Viewsonic can switch synch, can right and left eyed dominant viewers watch at the same time by switching synch modes on the glasses.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## walford

No. the Sync change does not correct for a weak left or right eye,it corrects for a cross-eyed signal

You mighth have eye strain trying to watch 3D. Do you have any problem watching 3D movies at the theater?


----------



## Tenniselbow

Walford


Thanks for the clarification. Read a review on AMAZON that made me think the dominant eye had significance. Do you have a preference on which of the glasses gives the best results. Except for switching synch Optima and viewsonic appear to be identical.


----------



## walford

If you have a dominant eye you may get eye strain watchin 3D at Imax you may want to get the Otimas so you can turn off one eye and not get eye strain while other watch with both eyes.

If you think you may be using both DLP-Link and and IR glases get the viewsonics so you can have types of glases sync properly.


----------



## taz291819

I was noticing some ghosting in a few movies with my X102s, so thought I'd compare them to my IO Display shutters. The IO Display shutters removed the ghosting I was seeing on the left/right side of the screen with my X102s, so I'm thinking maybe the curvature of the lens has something to do with it.


While I like the IO Display quality (no ghosting) better than the X102s, I like the overall build of the Xpands better, as they block out more light.


I may have to give the Viewsonics a go.


----------



## Lee Stewart

*Sears to Sell 3D Glasses*



> Quote:
> National retailer Sears, Roebuck and Co. will soon be offering 3D glasses for home and theatrical use.
> 
> 
> Los Angeles-based XpanD said it is rolling out the active-shutter Universal 3D glasses at Sears (and Sears.com), and claims they are compatible with any 3D-ready, infrared-emitting display.
> 
> 
> “This opportunity gives Sears a new product that satisfies a growing customer need as interest in 3DTV will be stronger than ever this holiday season and into 2011,” said Maria Costeira, CEO of XpanD.
> 
> 
> The Universal 3D glasses were available in October for pre-order on Amazon for $129.
> 
> 
> Separately, Oakley Inc. officially bowed its previously announced 3D Gascan glasses ($120), which can be worn to view any theatrical movie projected by RealD technology.


 http://www.homemediamagazine.com/3-d...-glasses-21096


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sears to Sell 3D Glasses
> 
> http://www.homemediamagazine.com/3-d...-glasses-21096



A lot of Sears stores near me (Maryland) have the X103 glasses in stock already. I bought 2 pairs from them a week or so ago.


----------



## knobby

here is my update on the PGD-150 viewsonics with samsung hlt5687s and mits with gefen with ps3.sent back original viewsonics and received new pair from viewsonics california.they shipped to london ontario.for some reason they have the exact same problem.will not stay in sync with tv.just one more thing to try and that will be my hdmi cable and then i guess it is time to give up on them.they have been used a total of 2 hours.for people using these glasses with the same tv any suggestions?do i need a certain type of hdmi cable and could this be an issue?thanks


----------



## Spoodily




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here is my update on the PGD-150 viewsonics with samsung hlt5687s and mits with gefen with ps3.sent back original viewsonics and received new pair from viewsonics california.they shipped to london ontario.for some reason they have the exact same problem.will not stay in sync with tv.just one more thing to try and that will be my hdmi cable and then i guess it is time to give up on them.they have been used a total of 2 hours.for people using these glasses with the same tv any suggestions?do i need a certain type of hdmi cable and could this be an issue?thanks



How close or far are you sitting from the tv?


----------



## philnerd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *knobby* /forum/post/19464535
> 
> 
> here is my update on the PGD-150 viewsonics with samsung hlt5687s and mits with gefen with ps3.sent back original viewsonics and received new pair from viewsonics california.they shipped to london ontario.for some reason they have the exact same problem.will not stay in sync with tv.just one more thing to try and that will be my hdmi cable and then i guess it is time to give up on them.they have been used a total of 2 hours.for people using these glasses with the same tv any suggestions?do i need a certain type of hdmi cable and could this be an issue?thanks



Wow that's a bummer. I've got the pre-LED version of that TV I believe, the normal lamp based 56" unit and my Viewsonics work like a champ.


I have a Panasonic 300 player with dual HDMI and actually have a very basic setup; I run only one HDMI cable (the main of course) to my Onkyo receiver and I have the Onkyo output connected to the #3 (PC) HDMI input on the Samsung. I also have the Samsung's menu name for the #3 input set to "PC" per several user's recommendation. No problems at all so far, just perfect 3D.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19461860
> 
> 
> A lot of Sears stores near me (Maryland) have the X103 glasses in stock already. I bought 2 pairs from them a week or so ago.



Have you posted a review on them? I'm assuming you are using them with the Mits kit emitter.


As usual, curious about how they handle the teal blacks. Do they produce normal blacks as well as the x102s, or teal?


Also, as usual, curious about whether they reveal the polarization rainbows like the x102s.


Also, as usual, do they sync in the standard or reverse setting?


Thanks!


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19465880
> 
> 
> Have you posted a review on them? I'm assuming you are using them with the Mits kit emitter.
> 
> 
> As usual, curious about how they handle the teal blacks. Do they produce normal blacks as well as the x102s, or teal?
> 
> 
> Also, as usual, curious about whether they reveal the polarization rainbows like the x102s.
> 
> 
> Also, as usual, do they sync in the standard or reverse setting?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I have exactly the same questions regarding the crystaleyes 5. If anyone has them, please post, and indicate whether or not they will work with the Mits kit emitter if known. Thanks.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19465911
> 
> 
> I have exactly the same questions regarding the crystaleyes 5. If anyone has them, please post, and indicate whether or not they will work with the Mits kit emitter if known. Thanks.



Why would the crystaleyes 5 need an emitter if they are DLP link?


----------



## dkhbrit

I have the Mitsu starter kit and the glasses that came with it. I have the 73838 TV. I need more glasses - can the Mitsu glasses and DLP glasses work at the same time or do I need to have all the same type


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenisG* /forum/post/19466142
> 
> 
> Why would the crystaleyes 5 need an emitter if they are DLP link?



Sorry for the confusion. I meant to ask whether crystaleyes 4 works with the mits emitter. You are right, emitter is irrelevant for crystaleyes 5.


----------



## DenisG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dkhbrit* /forum/post/19466195
> 
> 
> I have the Mitsu starter kit and the glasses that came with it. I have the 73838 TV. I need more glasses - can the Mitsu glasses and DLP glasses work at the same time or do I need to have all the same type



viewsonics will other will not.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19465880
> 
> 
> Have you posted a review on them? I'm assuming you are using them with the Mits kit emitter.
> 
> 
> As usual, curious about how they handle the teal blacks. Do they produce normal blacks as well as the x102s, or teal?
> 
> 
> Also, as usual, curious about whether they reveal the polarization rainbows like the x102s.
> 
> 
> Also, as usual, do they sync in the standard or reverse setting?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



No polarization rainbows with them. They sync in "normal" mode like the mitsubishi glasses. I actually sold my 2009 73837 and got in on the Pauls TV deal for a 73738 so I no longer have the dlp-link issue. What I will do tonight is turn on DLP-link and compare the glasses. I'll let you know if the X103 glasses better block out the flash. Brightness is seems to be the same between them. The colors are a bit different though. The Mitsubishi glasses seem to make the picture take on a "cooler" tint. The X103's make the image look slightly "warmer". I actually prefer the X103's in this regard. Not a big difference though. The x103's are heavier and less comfortable than the mitsubishi glasses, but I find them acceptable and definitely more comfortable than any DLP-link glasses I have used.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spoodily* /forum/post/19464635
> 
> 
> How close or far are you sitting from the tv?



i have tried every distance from tv you can think of.i was about to try standing on my head but thought how foolish i would look.they simply wont stay linked.also tried every setting contrast brightness setting.maybe the set isn't bright enough for these glasses.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19466873
> 
> 
> No polarization rainbows with them. They sync in "normal" mode like the mitsubishi glasses. I actually sold my 2009 73837 and got in on the Pauls TV deal for a 73738 so I no longer have the dlp-link issue.



Did you have the x103s with your old TV to determine whether the rainbows were there? I'm wondering if the new TVs may have eliminated the rainbow issue (do you see it if you tilt your head 45 degrees?). If you still have other DLP Link glasses that revealed the rainbow, do they still reveal it on the new TV even though the x103 doesn't? Just making sure the x103s really do avoid the rainbow, rather than your new TV doing so on its own.


Comparing the x103s to the mits glasses with DLP Link on (will your new TV even produce an IR sync with DLP Link turned on?), I take it that the x103s have much better black colors then.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19467884
> 
> 
> Did you have the x103s with your old TV to determine whether the rainbows were there? I'm wondering if the new TVs may have eliminated the rainbow issue (do you see it if you tilt your head 45 degrees?). If you still have other DLP Link glasses that revealed the rainbow, do they still reveal it on the new TV even though the x103 doesn't? Just making sure the x103s really do avoid the rainbow, rather than your new TV doing so on its own.
> 
> 
> Comparing the x103s to the mits glasses with DLP Link on (will your new TV even produce an IR sync with DLP Link turned on?), I take it that the x103s have much better black colors then.



I got rid of the old TV before getting the X103's. However, I do see the same rainbow pattern on the 2010 TV when tilting my head using the X103 and Mits glasses. So I'm all but certain that the polarization rainbows are still present on the 2010 models and that the X103's avoid them in the same manner as the Mits glasses. I no longer have DLP-Link glasses.


The IR sync is still active with DLP-Link turned on. I'll get back to you later tonight or tomorrow with a comparison.


----------



## StrikeOne33

I'm a little confused...

I have a Samsung HL-T5087S and plan on getting the Mits 3DA-1 adapter and flashing the EDID. I was going to buy the ViewSonic PGD-15's because they will work without an IR Emitter.

I read people saying that these glasses will also work with emitter glasses, what does that mean?

Do the viewsonics sync with the IR Emitter?

Can I use the viesonics on new TV's that come with IR glasses.

Can IR glasses from other TV's on my sammy and the viewsonics if I buy an emitter?


----------



## DenisG

Yes you are confused, the viewsonics are DLP link only, but they Left and Right shutter can be reversed. Normally DLP link needs to be set to reversed in the TV set up. IR glasses are normally set to normal in TV set up. Which means you can use one or the other but not both. Since viewsonics can be reversed they can be used in normal mode in TV setup, but DLP link glasses do not see IR emitters and IR glasses do not see DLP llink. IR glasses need to see an IR emitter.

I'm sure I left a bunch of stuff out, but you may get the gist of it.


----------



## StrikeOne33

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DenisG* 
Yes you are confused, the viewsonics are DLP link only, but they Left and Right shutter can be reversed. Normally DLP link needs to be set to reversed in the TV set up. IR glasses are normally set to normal in TV set up. Which means you can use one or the other but not both. Since viewsonics can be reversed they can be used in normal mode in TV setup, but DLP link glasses do not see IR emitters and IR glasses do not see DLP llink. IR glasses need to see an IR emitter.

I'm sure I left a bunch of stuff out, but you may get the gist of it.
Ok, so if I am using both types of glasses together, the viewsonics are still getting their signal from the DLP-Link, and the IR glasses are getting their signal from their compatible emitter?


----------



## nescosmo

If what I hear is right them the view sonic is the way to go. But what about if I am using Direct TV would I have to use the mits box to be seen on Direct TV channels.


----------



## bcterp

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bcterp* 
I got rid of the old TV before getting the X103's. However, I do see the same rainbow pattern on the 2010 TV when tilting my head using the X103 and Mits glasses. So I'm all but certain that the polarization rainbows are still present on the 2010 models and that the X103's avoid them in the same manner as the Mits glasses. I no longer have DLP-Link glasses.


The IR sync is still active with DLP-Link turned on. I'll get back to you later tonight or tomorrow with a comparison.
Alright so I just tested out my 2010 73738 with DLP-Link turned ON but using emitter glasses, the Xpand X103's and the Mitsubishi glasses. This is an attempt to simulate how these glasses would perform on a 2009 or earlier Mits DLP.


When I watch 3D with DLP-Link turned on the washed out black levels are very similar to what I used to see on my 2009 73837. The green tint is now gray but it's basically the same. I watched a few clips with dark scenes from Alice in Wonderland and A Christmas Carol.


The Mitsubishi glasses performed just as they did on my 2009 73837. The blacks turned gray and there was a significant loss of contrast. Yuck.


The X103 glasses performed great with one potential problem. The good news is that virtually all loss of black levels and contrast was restored using the X103 glasses. Basically the image quality was very similar to how the Optoma/Viewsonic glasses performed on my 2009 Mits TV, except the X103's do not have the polarization rainbows. The problem is that every several seconds it looked as though the DLP-Link light flash would get through causing a small but distracting change in contrast. I suppose the sync wasn't perfectly consistent.


I can't really say if my observations definitely translate to a 2009 or earlier Mitsubishi 3D ready DLP. However, *if* this intermittent flash when using the X103's were to not occur on an older Mits DLP then these glasses could be the ultimate solution for earlier owners. Fully restored black levels, contrast and no polarization rainbows.


Sears has the X103 glasses in-store and I assume they will accept returns. If I still had my 2009 DLP I would definitely test out a pair of X103 glasses and return them if this occasional flash occurred. It's definitely worth a shot IMHO.


----------



## Spoodily

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bcterp*
The X103 glasses performed great with one potential problem. The good news is that virtually all loss of black levels and contrast was restored using the X103 glasses. Basically the image quality was very similar to how the Optoma/Viewsonic glasses performed on my 2009 Mits TV, except the X103's do not have the polarization rainbows. The problem is that every several seconds it looked as though the DLP-Link light flash would get through causing a small but distracting change in contrast. I suppose the sync wasn't perfectly consistent.


I can't really say if my observations definitely translate to a 2009 or earlier Mitsubishi 3D ready DLP. However, if this intermittent flash when using the X103's were to not occur on an older Mits DLP then these glasses could be the ultimate solution for earlier owners. Fully restored black levels, contrast and no polarization rainbows.
high five. Thanks for the info. How much are these selling for?


Edit:

These are $129 on sears.com


----------



## walford

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DenisG* 
viewsonics will other will not.
The xx738 and xx838 user manual implles that you most select between DLP Link and IR glases. This is differnt from all of the other Mits DLP models where you can you use both types concurently if you have the Viewsonic glases.

I have not seen a post from a xx738 or xx838 model owner that states that they are able to use both types at the same time.


----------



## bcterp

Quote:

Originally Posted by *walford*
The xx738 and xx838 user manual implles that you most select between DLP Link and IR glases. This is differnt from all of the other Mits DLP models where you can you use both types concurently if you have the Viewsonic glases.

I have not seen a post from a xx738 or xx838 model owner that states that they are able to use both types at the same time.
You can use both at the same time. I have a 73738.


----------



## jayoldschool

Anyone have a problem with cracked arms/earpieces on the Viewsonics? I just started to use mine, and the arm is cracked through the black plastic. Only the red rubber part is holding it together. Hopefully that arm just detaches. I have emailed Viewsonic support to see what they say.


----------



## K6DTX2

My pair of Viewsonics cracked at the arm a few days after receiving them. I exchanged them on Amazon for a new pair. A source for spare arms would be nice.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19468759
> 
> 
> When I watch 3D with DLP-Link turned on the washed out black levels are very similar to what I used to see on my 2009 73837. The green tint is now gray but it's basically the same.....
> 
> 
> The Mitsubishi glasses performed just as they did on my 2009 73837. The blacks turned gray and there was a significant loss of contrast. Yuck.
> 
> 
> ...then these glasses could be the ultimate solution for earlier owners. Fully restored black levels, contrast and no polarization rainbows.
> 
> 
> Sears has the X103 glasses in-store and I assume they will accept returns. If I still had my 2009 DLP I would definitely test out a pair of X103 glasses and return them if this occasional flash occurred. It's definitely worth a shot IMHO.



Thanks for the excellent info! By the way, others have stated on here that in a 2010 set, the DLP Link flash didn't seem to cause black/contrast problems (they must have been looking specifically for teal blacks and overlooked gray blacks). This is great info not only for pre 2010 owners regarding using x103s as possibly the best solution to date, but this is also good info for 2010 owners considering using DLP Link and Mits glasses at the same time such as to save money when buying extra glasses....might want to avoid that mixed use.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19467940
> 
> 
> So I'm all but certain that the polarization rainbows are still present on the 2010 models



BTW, I am absolutely mystified that TVs are still being manufactured with this problem. Considering the mits glasses avoid the issue, I guess Mits has decided it is a non-issue. BUT, that leaves DLP Link users in a compromised situation (still wondering if crystaleyes 5 fixes this though).


----------



## Spoodily

It happens because the screen is made of plastic and the orientation of the polarized glass in the lenses reacts to it. It's just the glasses that make the difference and most dlp link glasses are designed with the intent of being used with a projector against a wall screen so how they will react when looking at plastic is never considered. I would like to know how the crystaleyes 5 look because they sell Mitsubishi tvs in a package deal with 5 pairs of glasses for professional use. I would assume they look good because they are a retailer of the tv and intend for

them to be used with the tv. Hopefully someone will get them and verify.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spoodily* /forum/post/19470741
> 
> 
> It happens because the screen is made of plastic and the orientation of the polarized glass in the lenses reacts to it. It's just the glasses that make the difference and most dlp link glasses are designed with the intent of being used with a projector against a wall screen so how they will react when looking at plastic is never considered. I would like to know how the crystaleyes 5 look because they sell Mitsubishi tvs in a package deal with 5 pairs of glasses for professional use. I would assume they look good because they are a retailer of the tv and intend for
> 
> them to be used with the tv. Hopefully someone will get them and verify.



I agree that it is a plastic component, most likely the screen giving rise to the issue. However, not everyone has this problem so mits should be able to eliminate it for all sets with adequate quality control. That is not happening though.


----------



## Spoodily

Put on your 3d glasses and look at an iPhone with a screen protector or a plastic window. You will see rainbows. Put on polarized sunglasses and look at plastic. It's the glasses, not Mitsubishi. If they were to do something it would open another can of worms for the glasses that don't show rainbows. The glasses manufacturers should test their glasses on the Mitsubishi tvs. This is why the samsung glasses that are in the kit look appropriate.


----------



## Spoodily

I bought and am returning the Xpand X103 glasses. It partially blocks the dlp flash but it only leads to a flickering picture. The consistent picture with the kit glasses is better than the flickering picture with the x103. I have a wd-65736 model.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spoodily* /forum/post/19471206
> 
> 
> Put on your 3d glasses and look at an iPhone with a screen protector or a plastic window. You will see rainbows. Put on polarized sunglasses and look at plastic. It's the glasses, not Mitsubishi. If they were to do something it would open another can of worms for the glasses that don't show rainbows. The glasses manufacturers should test their glasses on the Mitsubishi tvs. This is why the samsung glasses that are in the kit look appropriate.



It is my understanding that not all plastic screens are created equal. Many users on this forum have DLP TVs and use DLP Link glasses and do not see the rainbow. There has to be a reason for that.


Several months ago on this forum, a few of us had some posts about this issue. Out of those posts, the following link came about which sheds some light on this topic. Some devices have screens that don't produce this polarization rainbow issue, presumably because they lack the imperfections noted in the link. While the link is referring to an LCD display, the issue is the same, a plastic screen viewed through polarizing layer which yields a rainbow if the plastic screen has stress imperfections.

http://holyjoe.org/hp/rainbow.htm 


The bottom line is that some TVs have a screen that has an imperfection such as stress points that produces the problem, some don't. Mits should be able to eliminate that imperfection for all screens if it is eliminated for some.


Like others, I'm stuck with choosing the lesser of two evils. Either use DLP Link and see the rainbow but have black blacks, or use the Mits glasses and have no rainbow (unless I tilt my head 45 degrees) but have horrible blacks. I was hoping the x103 would be the solution but your info is extremely useful and has saved me the hassle of trying them. Let's hope crystaleyes 5 (or crystaleyes 4) solves all the issues. I'll try them eventually.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spoodily* /forum/post/19472193
> 
> 
> I bought and am returning the Xpand X103 glasses. It partially blocks the dlp flash but it only leads to a flickering picture. The consistent picture with the kit glasses is better than the flickering picture with the x103. I have a wd-65736 model.



I think Xpand advertises the x103 as being compatible with Mits DLP Tvs using the kit emitter, and I don't think they limit it to just the 2010 models. Did you call Xpand tech support to see if they had any suggestion for helping this issue?


I read in the product brochure that the x103 has updateable firmware that allows them to become compatible with future IR protocols. That being the case, perhaps they can update the firmware to better block the DLP Link flash and not flicker if they are made aware of the specific problem. Might be worth a phone call.


----------



## bcterp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19472489
> 
> 
> I think Xpand advertises the x103 as being compatible with Mits DLP Tvs using the kit emitter, and I don't think they limit it to just the 2010 models. Did you call Xpand tech support to see if they had any suggestion for helping this issue?
> 
> 
> I read in the product brochure that the x103 has updateable firmware that allows them to become compatible with future IR protocols. That being the case, perhaps they can update the firmware to better block the DLP Link flash and not flicker if they are made aware of the specific problem. Might be worth a phone call.



Sorry to hear that the X103 glasses cause a similar flash to what I saw. However hope is not lost with the X104 glasses coming soon. From what I last heard they are just like the X103 glasses but also add DLP-Link and bluetooth connectivity in addition to IR that the X103's support. This means that you could use them in DLP-Link mode and since they are designed as universal glasses they will need to have the polarization rotated like the X103 glasses. Otherwise they would not work properly with LCD 3D TV's from what I understand. I would ask Xpand about the X104's and also clue them in on this flickering.


----------



## walford

The XLP 103 glases do not cause a flash however they respond to the frequency of the IR emitter that is installed on the TV and if that IR frequency can be contaminated with part of the white light of the DLP-Link light flash at short range.


----------



## Spoodily




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The XLP 103 glases do not cause a flash however they respond to the frequency of the IR emitter that is installed on the TV and if that IR frequency can be contaminated with part of the white light of the DLP-Link light flash at short range.



The lenses have sloppy timing and the lack of completely blocking the dlp link flash causes a flicker in the picture.


----------



## fireslayer230

I recently purchased the Mitsubishi 65738 and I am waiting for my starter kit to be shipped and I have a few questions as I am anxious to dive into the 3D world. Is the adapter required to view the 3D channels on directv? The 3D channels are still grayed out and can't be selected. I have been told that the 3D was built into this model, and that directv is using the side by side format. I am looking for advice as to weather the dlp link or the emitter glasses are working the best. I was hoping to pick some up as soon as possible. Will an adapter be needed for a 3D blu ray player also?


----------



## Spoodily

Quote:

Originally Posted by *fireslayer230*
I recently purchased the Mitsubishi 65738 and I am waiting for my starter kit to be shipped and I have a few questions as I am anxious to dive into the 3D world. Is the adapter required to view the 3D channels on directv? The 3D channels are still grayed out and can't be selected. I have been told that the 3D was built into this model, and that directv is using the side by side format. I am looking for advice as to weather the dlp link or the emitter glasses are working the best. I was hoping to pick some up as soon as possible. Will an adapter be needed for a 3D blu ray player also?
For your model emitter glasses will work and look the best. Directv is having issues recognizing the Mits as a 3D tv. There are other people I have read bring it up. Mitsubishi might update the firmware to fix it but aren't confirming a release date. Once you get your adapter it will all work out Get a hdmi switch for $15 off eBay. I run my Xbox, Computer and PS3 though the adapter, it is required for 3D unless the source can put out the checkerboard format natively.


----------



## fireslayer230

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Spoodily* 
For your model emitter glasses will work and look the best. Directv is having issues recognizing the Mits as a 3D tv. There are other people I have read bring it up. Mitsubishi might update the firmware to fix it but aren't confirming a release date. Once you get your adapter it will all work out Get a hdmi switch for $15 off eBay. I run my Xbox, Computer and PS3 though the adapter, it is required for 3D unless the source can put out the checkerboard format natively.
Thanks for the info. The manual states that the tv supports the checkerboard and side by side formats, and in the 3D menu on the tv you need to select either the checkerboard or side by side. After being told by directv that they are using side by side, I was hoping to be able to get started before the adapter gets here. There was a rebate for a free starter kit, but no telling how long it may take to arrive. As far as 3D blu ray, where can you find out what format they are using? I have looked at a few and haven't found that in the specs anywhere. Hoping to find one that would include a disc. Just to clarify, are the glasses that are included in the starter kit the same as the Samsung glasses?


----------



## Turbo Ron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fireslayer230* /forum/post/19481512
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. The manual states that the tv supports the checkerboard and side by side formats, and in the 3D menu on the tv you need to select either the checkerboard or side by side. After being told by directv that they are using side by side, I was hoping to be able to get started before the adapter gets here. There was a rebate for a free starter kit, but no telling how long it may take to arrive. As far as 3D blu ray, where can you find out what format they are using? I have looked at a few and haven't found that in the specs anywhere. Hoping to find one that would include a disc. Just to clarify, are the glasses that are included in the starter kit the same as the Samsung glasses?



The Mitsubishi glasses I find to be the most comfortable of all the glasses I have tried to date. The ones that come with the starter kit. As far as the 3d blu ray player I find the Panasonic DMP-BDT350 works with the Mitsubishi TV. This player has 2 hdmi outs so you hook one hdmi cable for the video, and one hdmi cable to your receiver or processor in my case for the audio. If your receiver or processor is a 1.4 hdmi, you will not need a blu ray player with two hdmi outs. Do not use the optical or toslink cable because it will not get the latest sound formats. You will only get DTS or Dolby Digital. That is why it is important to have two hdmi outs. Oppo is coming out with a 3d player with 2 hdmi outs. I do not think it works with the Mitsubishi TV, since it does not do checkerboard from what I have read?

The Panasonic comes with a great 3d disk. The 3d starter pack comes with a disk also. Not as good in my opinion.

Good luck in your search.


----------



## Tyrod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Turbo Ron* /forum/post/19481694
> 
> 
> The Mitsubishi glasses I find to be the most comfortable of all the glasses I have tried to date. The ones that come with the starter kit. As far as the 3d blu ray player I find the Panasonic DMP-BDT350 works with the Mitsubishi TV. This player has 2 hdmi outs so you hook one hdmi cable for the video, and one hdmi cable to your receiver or processor in my case for the audio. If your receiver or processor is a 1.4 hdmi, you will not need a blu ray player with two hdmi outs. Do not use the optical or toslink cable because it will not get the latest sound formats. You will only get DTS or Dolby Digital. That is why it is important to have two hdmi outs. Oppo is coming out with a 3d player with 2 hdmi outs. I do not think it works with the Mitsubishi TV, since it does not do checkerboard from what I have read?
> 
> The Panasonic comes with a great 3d disk. The 3d starter pack comes with a disk also. Not as good in my opinion.
> 
> Good luck in your search.



Lil off topic.

If the TV supports side by side, then any 3D BD player should work. Maybe the TV needs a firmware update. The DMP-BDT300 has the same functionality at the DMP-BDT350 without the nearly useless DLNA feature and should be cheaper. I have a Samsung DLP with a cloned Mitusbishi EDID and I get Directv 3D just fine via the 3DA-1. The HR20 directv receivers don't do 3D, but all the sucesssive ones do (HR21,HR22,HR23,HR24). Then again, If you're gonna use the 3DA-1 then any 3D BD player will work, you don't need one that converts to checkerboard, that's what the 3DA-1 is for.


----------



## walford

3D Blu-ray disk players output 3D in double buffer packed format as descibed in the followin link they do not output in Side-By-Side format. Cable and Satellite companies ouput some programs in Side-by-Side format and others such ESPN-3D in Top-n- Bottom format.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fireslayer230* /forum/post/19481512
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. The manual states that the tv supports the checkerboard and side by side formats, and in the 3D menu on the tv you need to select either the checkerboard or side by side. After being told by directv that they are using side by side, I was hoping to be able to get started before the adapter gets here. There was a rebate for a free starter kit, but no telling how long it may take to arrive. As far as 3D blu ray, where can you find out what format they are using? I have looked at a few and haven't found that in the specs anywhere. Hoping to find one that would include a disc. Just to clarify, are the glasses that are included in the starter kit the same as the Samsung glasses?



Couple of follow up points. A good reason to get a BD 3D player that does either CB or SBS output is that you can avoid using the 3DA-1. The 3DA-1 has issues such as crushing blacks and not passing through audio in 5.1 or 7.1.


Also, you do NOT necessarily need a 1.4 receiver to pass a CB or SBS signal from a 3D BD player, it depends on the combination. I have the panny 300 and pass 3D through a HDMI v1.3 Sony AVR just fine. I only have to use one of the panny's HDMI outputs to go to the AVR, I get 3D from the AVR to the TV and I also get up to 7.1 audio at the AVR.


With DTV, it outputs SBS but only to devices where it recognizes the EDID as being a 3D compatible set. Unfortunately, the 2010 Mits TV does not provide an EDID that the DTV receiver recognizes as being 3D even though the Mits TV does do sbs. The 3DA-1 adapter does provide the EDID to the DTV receiver that is recognized as being 3D compatible so the DTV receiver allows 3D signals to be passed to it. So, with DTV, you have no choice but to use the 3DA-1 at this time, which works fine but you will have crushed blacks in 3D and 2D. Use a splitter to pass the DTV signal around the 3DA-1 for 2D content so that you at least have the black restored to normal for 2D.


----------



## knobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayoldschool* /forum/post/19469359
> 
> 
> Anyone have a problem with cracked arms/earpieces on the Viewsonics? I just started to use mine, and the arm is cracked through the black plastic. Only the red rubber part is holding it together. Hopefully that arm just detaches. I have emailed Viewsonic support to see what they say.



i have a pair which broke off completely.i am 62 years old and they were not roughly handled.sent them back and they replaced them.these are suppose to be tough enough for class room use.


----------



## jjknatl

Has anyone tried the glasses at the following link? Great price.

http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/product_07.htm 



Also, in another thread, there was an awesome post about an inverter for the emitter that will allow the Mits kit glasses to sync properly with the TV sync set to reverse, so that the Mits kit glasses will work at the same time as any DLP Link glasses. See below.

http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/product_01.htm


----------



## George Omoregie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayoldschool* /forum/post/19469359
> 
> 
> Anyone have a problem with cracked arms/earpieces on the Viewsonics? I just started to use mine, and the arm is cracked through the black plastic. Only the red rubber part is holding it together. Hopefully that arm just detaches. I have emailed Viewsonic support to see what they say.



Greetings all:

I purchased 3 Optomas from buy.com via Amazon.. 3 Viewsonics from Amazon. On opening one of the Viewsonic models, I noticed it was cracked. Amazon quickly shipped a replacement to me. Weeks later, while trying to wear one of the viewsonics, it just broke almost at the same area. I had to ship all Viewsonics pairs back to Amazon. Credit has been applied to my account. It was pass the 45 days windows.

I tried to return the Optomas to buy.com, buy.com refused to accept the Optomas.

The Optoma looks a bit firmer than the Viewsonics, I was so disgusted with the whole dlp glasses, I decided to return all then wait for the Xpand 104 next year.

For those looking for Optoma, PM if interested. I only use one of the 3 pairs.

I will get rid of them if someone is interested. They are so fragile.

Thanks.


George


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19494672
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the glasses at the following link? Great price.
> 
> http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/product_07.htm



Those are the same price as the IODs, but they appear much nicer. If anyone picks up a pair, post a review! They definitely look interesting.


----------



## Gator06




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayoldschool* /forum/post/19469359
> 
> 
> Anyone have a problem with cracked arms/earpieces on the Viewsonics? I just started to use mine, and the arm is cracked through the black plastic. Only the red rubber part is holding it together. Hopefully that arm just detaches. I have emailed Viewsonic support to see what they say.



I had the same problem within just a few days of careful use. Amazon shipped me a new pair overnight free of charge but I'm a little worried about the durability of these. It looks like this is a pretty big design flaw. I'm holding on buying additional pairs until I see how this replacement set holds up. Let's hope for everyone's sake Viewsonic steps up to the plate when these things break outside of the seller's return window...


----------



## fireslayer230

After seeing that it could be weeks until update is received, I figured I would do it via thumb drive. So I turned tv off for a bit while I searched house for thumb drive which I couldn't find. Figure I will pick one up when I take daughter to work in 30 mins. Plop down and turn on tv, and there it is...012.06!!







Now the dilema is no emitter without kit that hasn't arrived yet. Went to sears this A.M. and the only glasses they had were the X103's which are IR......seems like I will still be waiting...can't seem to get any glasses to view right away!.....bummer







Any suggestions on glasses? Any retailer that you can actually walk into and buy DLP link glasses?


----------



## PRO710HD

Can somone give me a link to download the 12.06 software to Thumb Drive?


----------



## fireslayer230




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PRO710HD* /forum/post/19498249
> 
> 
> Can somone give me a link to download the 12.06 software to Thumb Drive?


 http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/3Dupgrade.html


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19496779
> 
> 
> Those are the same price as the IODs, but they appear much nicer. If anyone picks up a pair, post a review! They definitely look interesting.



They do look nicer, but I am still impressed that the IODs block the DLP Link flash entirely. Not even the x103s do that!


----------



## markm75

Has anyone compared the viewsonics PGD-150's to the elsa ones here: http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/elwi3dgl.html 


The elsa ones are only $39..


This would be used on an hlt-6187S set.. either via PC and TMT v5 and/or maybe waiting for the firmware fix from samsung, if it comes or doing the edid fix (for xbox 360 3d ability, call of duty etc).


I think with the elsa i'd have to buy an emitter.. (confused on the dlp link thing.. my tv set doesnt support that correct? just an emitter setup? Does this mean i must make sure i get glasses that have emitter ability?)


----------



## walford

Markm,

As stated in the link you provided, the glases will only work with specific 3D converters and viewing systems none of which AFAIK are still available.

If your TV is described as being 3D ready then it will work with either DLP glases or with a IR emitter and glases compatible with it. Most 2007 model 1080p RP DLPs are 3D ready and yours is it will have a 3D IR emitter connection on the back.


----------



## jsmiddleton4

Just double checking. These glasses work like the MIT/Samsung's?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+B...959256&st=sony 



Samsungs:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+...&skuId=9828673


----------



## Spoodily




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jsmiddleton4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just double checking. These glasses work like the MIT/Samsung's?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+B...959256&st=sony
> 
> 
> Samsungs:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+...&skuId=9828673



The samsung glasses will work with the emitter provided in the 3dc-1000 kit. The Sony will not work with that emitter.


If the Sony emitter uses a VESA jack like the Mitsubishi's then you could get their emitter and glasses but could not use the samsung's with it.


----------



## jsmiddleton4

Thank you spoo....


----------



## lazytonberry

I bought a pair of Viewsonic PGD-150 DLP Link glasses to use with my Samsung HLT5087S, and while they do work, I get a lot of flickering.


Using Onkyo HT-RC260 AV Receiver to the Mitsubishi 3DA-1 adapter.


Note: I've only tested out 3D games, not movies yet. Will try out some 3D Blu-rays tonight to check. Played Black Ops and Avatar on Xbox 360, encountered flickering issues. Not always, but enough to be very annoying.


For PS3, only tried Super Stardust HD (worked perfectly, no flickering) and Wipeout HD (some flickering, but it took a while for the image to look correct, it was double-vision for a while until it just fixed itself).


It seems the glasses lose their sync occasionally, so the shutters rapidly open and close trying to resync itself but sometimes it has trouble so it takes a while.


I think I also get ghosting, if I am using the term correctly. Sometimes it just feels like the glasses shift and suddenly the 3D doesn't look right, and then just as quickly, without going through the rapid opening/shutting, it'll correct itself and the image looks good again. But, it happens so often that when the image goes out of 3D, it makes the game unplayable.


I've tried messing around with settings on both my TV and Xbox, but still get the problems.


Anyway, I'll try out some movies tonight and see if they work better, since they do seem to work properly for certain things.


But, someone suggested that I try out some IR glasses, and I had actually accidentally purchased a pair of those Samsung SSG-2200AR rechargeable glasses, before I realized that my older 2007 DLP wouldn't work with that because it didn't contain an emitter.


I was going to return it but I just found out through various posts and threads here at AVS that the Mitsubishi emitter that comes with the 3DC-1000 starter kit works with the Samsung SSG-2100 glasses, because the glasses included with the kit are the same as the Samsung. And since the 2200s are the same as the 2100s, only rechargeable, I looked high and low to see if I could snag one of those Mitsubishi emitters without having to buy the entire Starter Kit, since I already bought the adapter separately (now I wish I hadn't, but oh well).


I thought I came upon the solution from an old post saying that they were available for sale here:
http://www.mitsuparts.com/ModelSelection.aspx (type in 3DC-1000 for model number)

But, that was from around July and of course by now they're not in stock, or not selling them through the site. Guess they're trying to push the starter kit some more, or something. I think I read a post somewhere that said someone tried to order it through the phone, but the rep said they weren't available and wouldn't be available through that site/process for a long time.


Was just about lost, but then somehow got to this page over at the TRU3D site.

http://www.tru3d.com/products/view_p...20IR%20Emitter 


I compared the image of what is shown there with what is shown in one of the pictures for the 3DC-1000 starter kit on Amazon showing the emitter, and it looks like the same thing.


I also found this at a different site:

http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/product_02.htm 


According to the description, it looks like it should work with the same glasses, as it is compared directly to the emitter from the 3DC-1000 starter pack.


So anyway, if anyone out there was in the same boat as me looking for just the 3D emitter for these glasses, there you go. Maybe there are more options out there but it took me a while to find these.


----------



## Jadocs

I have a Mitsu 73738 and the following DLP Link glasses:


1. Xpand (Red ones)

2. Optima


Both glasses work flawlessly, but the image through the Optima is superior as it maintains the true colors in the movie. The Red Xpands put a weird tint (washed out look) to the blacks in the movie. You wouldn't notice this unless you had some Optimas to switch with. It got to the point where I thought the Xpands had some kind of protective film on the lenses that needed to be removed. That's how big of a difference there is between Xpand and Optima.


For DLP Link glasses Optimas are the way to go. Image carity/color is perfect in every way.


----------



## Jadocs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Omoregie* /forum/post/19496282
> 
> 
> For those looking for Optoma, PM if interested. I only use one of the 3 pairs.
> 
> I will get rid of them if someone is interested. They are so fragile.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> George



You think the Optimas are fragile?


----------



## riceboii911

I bought the newer model of the 3d vision kit that has the lighter shades and the starcraft 2 trial but I need to buy extra glasses which I only mostly see the old darker model for sale usually. Does anyone know if those older glasses will work with the new emitter? or is there some disadvantage to the old ones so I really shouldnt consider them at all?


Thanks!


----------



## lazytonberry

Quick update on my status with the Viewsonic PGD-150s on my Samsung HL-T5087S.


Watched some of "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs" earlier today since the movie was delivered to me when I stopped home during lunch.


It worked out really well overall, only had maybe one or two instances of flickering and they quickly went away. The rest of the time everything performed solidly and looked great.


Since I seem to have a better track record with the PS3 and 3D, both in the limited games I've played and the movie watching, maybe it's just the Xbox 360 that was having some trouble with my setup earlier, and maybe it's not entirely the glasses. Or it's some combination of both, which is likely.


Anyhow, hopefully I'll get the Mits. emitter in tomorrow, and be able to try out the Samsung SSG-2200AR glasses.


----------



## knobby

let me know how they work out for you.i will be taking that route also.


----------



## lampshade123

anybody know if you can mix and match glasses and glasses type (emitter and dlp link)?


currently, I have the viewsonic's but I would really like to get a usb charging pair and they require an emitter (at least the nvidia ones). That would put me at 2 and for the moment that is enough.


Thanks!!!


----------



## lazytonberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by *knobby* 
let me know how they work out for you.i will be taking that route also.
I posted this in a different thread, but yeah, it worked out perfectly for me when I just tested it out.


Quote:

Wanted to confirm that yes, the Mitsubishi emitter does work with my HLT-5087S, and also works with the Samsung SSG-2200AR glasses.


So awesome.


Finally got things all set up! I plugged in the emitter, and then started up everything else like normal with the 3D process for playing Black Ops on my Xbox 360. Turned on the glasses and yep, it works perfectly. No flickering or syncing issues whatsoever, but I did have to set the TV's 3D setting to the Inverted one for it to look correct.


I played an entire round and didn't have a single issue of losing the 3D effect.


----------



## RobbW

Hi Lazytonberry, I have the HLT-5089 alongside a Panny 300 and an as yet unopened Mitsu Kit and am completely frozen. After reading through this entire thread, here are my perceived dilemmas.


I keep hearing varying opinions on the performance of an IR-Based 3d Shutter on our DLP systems. IR Emitter on our LED DLPs seem to be a concern because of crushed blacks (teal) caused by an seemingly unavoidable sync issue with the DLP-Link flash. Yours doesn't have this issue? It's okay after all??


DLP Glasses: Optima/Viewsonics seem to lose sync during bright scenes and seem to also have range issues as well where they may(or may not) lose sync, and potentially have rainbows. X102's are not as well reviewed as the Optima/Viewsonic group and the X103's are out completely because of reported issues with flicker.


After reading more pages than I care to mention, optimistically, I have yet to hear anything negative about the Crystal Eyes 5 DLP-Link glasses other than they're extremely expensive at $175 each but if that's what it takes to have the "perfect world", then so be it I guess, but I would love to hear what you (and others) have to say since we seem to have very similar models. Any other HLT owners care to chiime in as well?










Likewise, the pending release of the Monster (Bit Cauldron) system has me interested, but admittedly, I'm starting to get a bit anxious and imagine that there must be "some" existing solution that doesn't significantly compromise quality?


Thoughts? (and thanks for your insightful reviews btw)!


Appreciatively,


RobbW


----------



## Jadocs

All I can say is there are no color or rainbow or link issues on my Mitsu 738 DLP using Optoma glasses. All colors are true. The XpanD glasses puts a "tint" on black colors. Noticeable when you switch glasses to compare.


----------



## brazen17

From what I have read I think I will go with the Optoma glasses and the Panasonic bdt-100 3D Blu-ray player. Anyone know the best source for the glasses?


----------



## Midd

I purchased glasses from ebay. Got 2 pair for $100. They don't have the greatest looks but for the price they work great with my Tru3d adapter and my Samsung HL56A650 DLP televsion.


Just purchased four more glasses from the seller today.


Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_4980wt_1093


----------



## hceuterpe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lazytonberry* /forum/post/19584181
> 
> 
> Quick update on my status with the Viewsonic PGD-150s on my Samsung HL-T5087S.
> 
> 
> Watched some of "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs" earlier today since the movie was delivered to me when I stopped home during lunch.
> 
> 
> It worked out really well overall, only had maybe one or two instances of flickering and they quickly went away. The rest of the time everything performed solidly and looked great.
> 
> 
> Since I seem to have a better track record with the PS3 and 3D, both in the limited games I've played and the movie watching, maybe it's just the Xbox 360 that was having some trouble with my setup earlier, and maybe it's not entirely the glasses. Or it's some combination of both, which is likely.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, hopefully I'll get the Mits. emitter in tomorrow, and be able to try out the Samsung SSG-2200AR glasses.




I have the PGD-150 and a Samsung HL-T6187S. I have the same flickering problems. I tried playing movies on my laptop with TMT3 and the 3D plugin. I wonder if the sync problems has something to do with dropped frames? I'm not sure if my laptop is cutting it (it has an Intel Core i7 620M mobile processor with the integrated graphics) I still need to try standalone with DMP-BDT100 I recently bought. With the TV itself, how do I know which setting to use, standard or inverse? Also with the glasses, is it the first setting upon immediately turning it on, or do I have to switch the glasses? This is my only pair, I have no IR emitter.

Do you have to manipulate TV scaling at all?


----------



## RobbW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jadocs* /forum/post/19605950
> 
> 
> All I can say is there are no color or rainbow or link issues on my Mitsu 738 DLP using Optoma glasses. All colors are true. The XpanD glasses puts a "tint" on black colors. Noticeable when you switch glasses to compare.



While your assessment might be on the money for a Mitsu 738, all of these varying opinions on the Optoma/Viewsonics have me convinced that your positive results might vary between other production models and brands. After lengthy consideration for my Sammy LED HLT-5089s, I'm going to go a bit off the grid and try a road less traveled.


As I'm sure most of you monitor the other threads in this forum, it seems like only positive things have been mentioned (at least in terms of actual performance) about the RealD Crystal Eyes 5 DLP-Link glasses and so I just ordered a trio and I'm crossing my fingers. Their specs seem well above the standard for this category...5000:1 contrast ratio vs. 1000:1 on the Viewsonic/Optomas, 1.7MS response time (less than the 2ms I have seen elsewhere), rechargable internal batteries, ambient light resistant, and lightweight. Not to mention that they are created by RealD which is sort of like buying THX products from Lucasfilm.


Yes, they are expensive ($175 retail) and yes, if you read the 3 page RealD thread, they definitely got bashed in the beginning for having had issues with respect to orders taking forever to fulfill, but my concerns were quelled by a sales/marketing rep from RealD who REALLY went above and beyond to explain everything. She just couldn't have been nicer, and that completely restored my trust. Apparently, they initially had product inventory issues which have recently been fixed, and she was even able to express my order which will be arriving with a two day turnaround from my initial order date.


I gave her the link to AVSForum, and she seemed highly interested in taking a look at all of the comments and perhaps even formally introducing themselves in order to take questions and handle requests from enthusiasts going forward. I think that would be huge, given that they seem to be a bit more unknown than most, and yet, clearly, the few people that have reviewed the glasses thus far consider it to be the ultimate DLP-Link choice.


I will promise to give you all a full review as well, and post it here once I have had a few days to audition these. I am really looking forward to seeing how it handles polarization rainbows, flickering, sync, noise, bright/dark transitions, distance, etc. I'm nervous, but excited. =)


Warmest regards,


RobbW


----------



## lazytonberry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobbW* /forum/post/19605410
> 
> 
> Hi Lazytonberry, I have the HLT-5089 alongside a Panny 300 and an as yet unopened Mitsu Kit and am completely frozen. After reading through this entire thread, here are my perceived dilemmas.
> 
> 
> I keep hearing varying opinions on the performance of an IR-Based 3d Shutter on our DLP systems. IR Emitter on our LED DLPs seem to be a concern because of crushed blacks (teal) caused by an seemingly unavoidable sync issue with the DLP-Link flash. Yours doesn't have this issue? It's okay after all??



I'm not really sure about crushed blacks or teal, I don't notice anything like that when I'm using my IR glasses. Things look pretty normal to me, other than just being slightly dimmer because of the glasses.


I thought I read that the DLP Link flash issue happened with Mitsubishi TVs; don't recall anything specific about Samsung having the same issue, but I'm probably mis-remembering.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hceuterpe* /forum/post/19611961
> 
> 
> I have the PGD-150 and a Samsung HL-T6187S. I have the same flickering problems. I tried playing movies on my laptop with TMT3 and the 3D plugin. I wonder if the sync problems has something to do with dropped frames? I'm not sure if my laptop is cutting it (it has an Intel Core i7 620M mobile processor with the integrated graphics) I still need to try standalone with DMP-BDT100 I recently bought. With the TV itself, how do I know which setting to use, standard or inverse? Also with the glasses, is it the first setting upon immediately turning it on, or do I have to switch the glasses? This is my only pair, I have no IR emitter.
> 
> Do you have to manipulate TV scaling at all?



Regarding standard or inverse, you'll just have to check each one to see which works out well. When I was using my DLP Link glasses, it didn't seem to matter which one I was on. Even switching the standard/inverse on the glasses themselves didn't seem to make much of a difference.


For those glasses, the initial ON setting is Standard, hit it again for Inverse.


And like I talked about before, I had plenty of flickering/losing sync issues when I was using the PGD-150 on my Xbox 360, not so much with my PS3. I'm not sure of the reasons why, but perhaps it could be the way the devices interact with the DLP Link and all this junk to cause it to lose sync or not.


Definitely try out different sources and content to see if you get different results. I did, but getting IR emitter and glasses got rid of all those problems. I am very happy with my 3D experience now using IR, and I'd recommend going that route instead of DLP Link if you can't figure out how to make it work better.


----------



## Justin-Dawson

Samsung HLT-5687S LED DLP Owner here - I tried the Optoma glasses and couldn't get them to stay sync'd. I then tried the IR glasses that come with the Mits kit. After reading all the negatives about the IR glasses not blocking out the DLP Link flash, I didn't have very high hopes for them but... I can honestly say that the glasses work perfectly. I've never lost sync a single time and I have no idea what people are talking about with the DLP Link flash causing a "teal" issue. I know that the adapter causes an issue when it's not set to RGB but that has nothing to do with the glasses (and is easily fixed by setting the source to RGB - hence no need to bypass the adapter for any reason).


I couldn't be happier with the IR glasses included in the Mits kit and have no desire to try other DLP Link glasses. These work great.


----------



## Augerhandle

You can add these to the review list. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19623737


----------



## Milmanias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19622151
> 
> 
> I have no idea what people are talking about with the DLP Link flash causing a "teal" issue.



On the Mits DLP's, when 3D mode is on the blacks look washed out and like a dark green/teal color instead of inky black. I believe on the Samsung tv's it's more of a red color instead of teal, from what I read.


----------



## Justin-Dawson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milmanias* /forum/post/19627259
> 
> 
> On the Mits DLP's, when 3D mode is on the blacks look washed out and like a dark green/teal color instead of inky black. I believe on the Samsung tv's it's more of a red color instead of teal, from what I read.



My bad. I know what the issue is supposed to be - I should have said that I don't notice this issue whatsoever on my TV and therefore have no idea why everyone is complaining about it. I'm assuming it's obviously different with the Mits sets.


----------



## Tyrod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Justin-Dawson* /forum/post/19627414
> 
> 
> My bad. I know what the issue is supposed to be - I should have said that I don't notice this issue whatsoever on my TV and therefore have no idea why everyone is complaining about it. I'm assuming it's obviously different with the Mits sets.



Yeah, I don't have cancer either. I can't imagine what all those folks that do are complaining about.


----------



## perfectdark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tyrod* /forum/post/19628450
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't have cancer either. I can't imagine what all those folks that do are complaining about.



I understand your point, but using "cancer" to make it..... when so many have died from it, including my personal family and friends is not cool


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19494672
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the glasses at the following link? Great price.
> 
> http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/product_07.htm ...[snip]




Those appear to be the same model being sold by 3D Heaven

http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/dlp3dwiglfis.html


----------



## Tyrod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *perfectdark* /forum/post/19628460
> 
> 
> I understand your point, but using "cancer" to make it..... when so many have died from it, including my personal family and friends is not cool



I was gonna add a snappy retort, but let's just let it die here.


----------



## Augerhandle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tyrod* /forum/post/19644911
> 
> 
> I was gonna add a snappy retort, but let's just let it die here.



Some people are more sensitive than others. It didn't bother me, but it is best to be polite.


----------



## SNOWMAN5373

What's the contrast ratio for the Xpands? I see the viewsonics are 1000 and the crystaleyes are 5000.


----------



## Justin-Dawson

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Tyrod* 
Yeah, I don't have cancer either. I can't imagine what all those folks that do are complaining about.
First off, this thread is not Mits or Samsung specific - I was trying to get my point across to Samsung owners that I wasn't seeing the teal issue on my Samsung with the IR glasses... hence the whole point of this thread.


Second off, I only had to add that second post to explain to Malanius (or whatever his name is) that I can in fact read and am obviously well aware of what the teal issue is supposed to be on the Mits sets.


Complain all you want about it, I was just trying to let people know that it's not an issue on the Samsungs.


I would like you to know however that your comment about cancer was completely uncalled for and I hope you go to h... just kidding. A lot of things in life suck - life goes on. I am guilty of immediately disliking people who add funny remarks to my posts though... aren't we all?


----------



## dougaldy

Hey guys, I just happen to stumble on to this thread and found it very interesting as I am having the same issues. I have a Samsung HLT6187S and I went ahead and got the Crystaleyes 5 hoping they would sync up. Well after playing with them for quite a while, they kept losing sync so often that I couldnt even watch the movie. It happened during dark scenes, light scenes, it didnt matter. I called RealD and I am going to send them back and go with the Crystaleyes 4 and use an emitter. I also spoke to a tech and he said there have been a lot of people with these older DLP TV's who are having sync-ing issues. While some of the models work great, others dont. I am hopeful that the emitter will solve my problems. Once I get it, Ill update the thread.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dougaldy* /forum/post/19655416
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I just happen to stumble on to this thread and found it very interesting as I am having the same issues. I have a Samsung HLT6187S ....



Do you see a teal or red haze on the screen, especially where it should be black, when viewed without wearing the glasses when you turn on 3D mode? As you may know, that is a result of the DLP Link flash. If you do see it and I would be surprised if you don't, you may have a problem with that haze when using emitter based glasses.


If you do see the haze without glasses, I'll be very interested to hear if the haze goes away when using the CE4s or if you still see it. The emitter glasses from Mits and Samsung do not block it and I suspect the CE4 will not block it either. If the CE4s do not block it, then I wonder if using the CE4 is any better than just using the Mits/Sammy glasses (which can be found much cheaper and are pretty lightweight)


I just bought the CE5s and they do a nice job of blocking the flash and restoring blacks as well as eliminating the rainbow but I haven't used them enough yet to determine if I have a sync issue.


----------



## dougaldy

I will take a look tomorrow morning and see if I see that haze. I looked for rainbows and ghosting but not the haze.


----------



## hceuterpe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tyrod* /forum/post/19628450
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't have cancer either. I can't imagine what all those folks that do are complaining about.



Hey guess what?? My mom had cancer less than 3 years ago and managed to survive. Your comment was total BS.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19655491
> 
> 
> Do you see a teal or red haze on the screen, especially where it should be black, when viewed without wearing the glasses when you turn on 3D mode? As you may know, that is a result of the DLP Link flash. If you do see it and I would be surprised if you don't, you may have a problem with that haze when using emitter based glasses.
> 
> 
> If you do see the haze without glasses, I'll be very interested to hear if the haze goes away when using the CE4s or if you still see it. The emitter glasses from Mits and Samsung do not block it and I suspect the CE4 will not block it either. If the CE4s do not block it, then I wonder if using the CE4 is any better than just using the Mits/Sammy glasses (which can be found much cheaper and are pretty lightweight)
> 
> 
> I just bought the CE5s and they do a nice job of blocking the flash and restoring blacks as well as eliminating the rainbow but I haven't used them enough yet to determine if I have a sync issue.



Why does everyone insist on saying Samsung and Mitsubishi TVs must function the same way? Even though they both have TI chips, that doesn't mean they are identical. If Justin-Dawson doesn't see the tint, then they doesn't see the tint. Why are you questioning what he see on his own TV? You're obviously not standing in front of his TV to rebut his statement. Are you implying he's color blind?

The same rationale like above made people believe a particular pair of working DLP Link glasses in a particular instance would mean they work perfectly fine regardless of the 3D capable DLP TV, which by now is obviously not true.


For those with Samsung DLP TVs, who also have IR glasses, and yet have DLP Link glasses laying around, possibly because they didn't work due to syncing issues: If you install your emitter for the IR glasses (perhaps regardless of TV mode even, both standard/inverse), do your DLP Link glasses even still work?


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hceuterpe* /forum/post/19655548
> 
> 
> For those with Samsung DLP TVs, who also have IR glasses, and yet have DLP Link glasses laying around, possibly because they didn't work due to syncing issues: If you install your emitter for the IR glasses (perhaps regardless of TV mode even, both standard/inverse), do your DLP Link glasses even still work?



I think it was mentioned by someone else around post #368 , but I also have an emitter + IOD glasses, and a Viewsonic (DLPlink) set that works fine together with my Sammy HL67A750. No color/tint issues with either one. The Viewsonic has somewhat better light/contrast pass-through. I've never had sync issues with the DLPLink; it seems those problems may be associated with earlier model DLPs.


----------



## jkim5453




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19655616
> 
> 
> I think it was mentioned by someone else around post #368 , but I also have an emitter + IOD glasses, and a Viewsonic (DLPlink) set that works fine together with my Sammy HL67A750. No color/tint issues with either one. The Viewsonic has somewhat better light/contrast pass-through. I've never had sync issues with the DLPLink; it seems those problems may be associated with earlier model DLPs.



Just adding to EricUtah's comment.


I also have a HL67A750. Here's a quick snapshot of it with 3D mode off. Please ignore the reflections - the background is as black as my TV gets when seen in person (also, you can see the 3DC-1000's emitter near the top):











That solid black becomes red when 3D mode is on as seen next:











It's the same with the actual content while it's playing. So, at least for some of us, that's what we have with our Samsung models.


As Eric said, when seen through my Viewsonics in sync, the red blacks become almost 100% black again (if you tilt your head, the blacks turn brownish). Using the Mitsubishi/Samsung IR-sync glasses, however, the blacks stay red-tinted but darker, and it really ruins the picture quality. I gave them to my sister who has a Samsung plasma.


I recently tried the "Samsung-compatible" I-O Display glasses. These are the newer parts that work with the built-in emitters of Samsung LCD and Plasma TVs, and they work with my emitter from the Mitsubishi kit. They're much, much dimmer than the Viewsonics and Samsung/Mitsubishi glasses, and the blacks stay red-tinted. One upside is that they're narrow enough in size to fit my 6-year old niece and nephew - and they don't seem to be too picky about picture quality, so I'm keeping them.


Of the 3 brands I tried, Viewsonics are clearly the best performers with my TV, so I'm keeping 6 pairs. I've never lost sync with any of the 3 brands while facing the screen. The entire right side of my viewing area is the kitchen flooded with 160W of fluorescent light, so I don't seem to have problems with that. I'm also gambling a bit that affordable 3-D 1080p DLP front projectors will become available, and DLP-Link will stay compatible with these glasses when that happens (fingers crossed.)


Also - I didn't see it documented anywhere - the Viewsonics power-off automatically about 3 minutes after losing 3D sync, just like the Samsung/Mitsubishi glasses. Found this out accidentally and confirmed it through a few trials.


My friends and family own Samsung 3D plasmas, so I'm looking for some IR glasses that can be shared AND offset the red blacks on my TV. I'm not counting on Samsung to issue a firmware update to turn off the red tint in 3D mode. So, if you're trying Samsung-compatible IR glasses (Ultraclears, etc.) with Samsung DLPs, and if your TV has the red-tinted blacks as mine, I'd love to know how they perform in terms of removing the red-tint from blacks.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hceuterpe* /forum/post/19655548
> 
> 
> Why does everyone insist on saying Samsung and Mitsubishi TVs must function the same way?



Wow, I detect some angst. I wasn't responding to Justin but to dougaldy. Also, see the post above from jkim which shows the red haze on a Samsung. Please overlook my comments if you think they are insulting. Just trying to ask for useful information.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkim5453* /forum/post/19656071
> 
> 
> Just adding to EricUtah's comment.
> 
> 
> I also have a HL67A750.
> 
> ...
> 
> That solid black becomes red when 3D mode is on as seen next:



That's looks pretty red. It's hard to tell because it's a photo, but I'm not sure my display is putting out that much red in the 3D mode. I don't see it through the either of the glasses. Movie mode, 100 contrast, 45 bright.


Edit: I just threw on the IOD glasses to make sure - I see the red through them when they're not synced, but as soon as soon as they sync (maybe two seconds) it's gone. Not even the slightest hint. I'm curious where the difference is.... Also: I agree about the Viewsonics. More light passthru & a lot more comfy than IODs. They're great.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19656189
> 
> 
> Edit: I just threw on the IOD glasses to make sure - I see the red through them when they're not synced, but as soon as soon as they sync (maybe two seconds) it's gone. Not even the slightest hint. I'm curious where the difference is.... Also: I agree about the Viewsonics. More light passthru & a lot more comfy than IODs. They're great.



Eric, as I recall you have the IOD glasses that use the IOD emitter (as opposed to the Samsung compatible model)? Have you tried the Mits emitter and Mits/Sammy glasses to determine if the red tint disappears when synced?


It may be that the IOD version you have briefly has both shutters closed when switching from right to left and back whereas the Samsung compatible IOD version may not shut both at the same time.


----------



## Justin-Dawson




jkim5453 said:


> That solid black becomes red when 3D mode is on as seen next:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same with the actual content while it's playing. So, at least for some of us, that's what we have with our Samsung models.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Just saw these pictures and I almost couldn't believe my eyes. I thought people complaining about the red/teal issues were probably overly concerning themselves with minute details of their PQ... i never thought it was anywhere near this bad. I can confirm that I do not see this issue at all - glasses on or off (not even the faintest red tint).
> 
> 
> Here's the interesting part though, I couldn't get DLP Link glasses to stay sync'd for more than 30 seconds or so... maybe I just got lucky and have a TV with a very "poor" performing DLP Link flash...


----------



## jkim5453




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19656189
> 
> 
> That's looks pretty red. It's hard to tell because it's a photo, but I'm not sure my display is putting out that much red in the 3D mode. I don't see it through the either of the glasses. Movie mode, 100 contrast, 45 bright.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just threw on the IOD glasses to make sure - I see the red through them when they're not synced, but as soon as soon as they sync (maybe two seconds) it's gone. Not even the slightest hint. I'm curious where the difference is.... Also: I agree about the Viewsonics. More light passthru & a lot more comfy than IODs. They're great.



Brightness of the red is exaggerated in that quick photo I took. In reality, its a darker hue than what's shown in the picture. However, dark red or bright red, it's still a very definite red rather than black. My TV's also in Movie mode, contrast 100, brightness 44, input name "PC" (amazing how that gets rid of the red/blue ghosting), "Wide TV" picture size.


BTW: the TV's "HDMI black level" setting sticks from before you change the input name to "PC", which can really trip you if you're not aware of it. I have 3 sources that can play 3-D material connected to the HDMI3 input through a 3x1 switch: PS3, Boxee Box (mostly half SBS short clips I found here and there), and U-Verse STB (so far, only saw top-and-bottom format). PS3 and Boxee Box can adjust the black level output between PC RGB and video RGB, but the U-Verse STB can't. To accommodate the black level output of all 3, I set the TV's HDMI black level to "Low" before changing the input name to "PC", then set the PS3 and Boxee Box to output video RGB range (e.g "RGB limited" on PS3), and the same contrast/brightess values work well for all 3.


RE: IOD glasses. My guess is that the Samsung-compatible IOD glasses I tried may have different optical properties than the older parts with their own emitter, perhaps to better accommodate the newer Samsung plasma and LCD models.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19656403
> 
> 
> Eric, as I recall you have the IOD glasses that use the IOD emitter (as opposed to the Samsung compatible model)? Have you tried the Mits emitter and Mits/Sammy glasses to determine if the red tint disappears when synced?
> 
> 
> It may be that the IOD version you have briefly has both shutters closed when switching from right to left and back whereas the Samsung compatible IOD version may not shut both at the same time.



That's got to be it. I haven't seen any Mits/Sammy glasses so can't speak as to how those would work. I'm pretty surprised that the "Samsung" labeled glasses at IOD are performing worse (at least with the red bleedthru) than the generic DLP+emitter based ones.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkim5453* /forum/post/19658473
> 
> 
> RE: IOD glasses. My guess is that the Samsung-compatible IOD glasses I tried may have different optical properties than the older parts with their own emitter, perhaps to better accommodate the newer Samsung plasma and LCD models.



I think you're right; I'm guessing it's probably something the timing/electronics or material itself.


Edit: I just checked the IOD website to take quick look at my pair vs the Samsung labeled one and remembered why I chose the generic DLP+emitter set: The "Samsung Compatible" description did not include DLP TVs. "These glasses work with all US Samsung 3D enabled LED, LCD, and plasma displays."


I guess as a warning to other folks it might be wise to avoid the "Samsung Compatible" pair with Sammy HL**A750 DLP sets. In any case, I'd recommend the Viewsonics anyway since they're close in price but better in most regards.


----------



## jjknatl

Eric, is your set using a bulb or LEDs? The advice of DLP Link glasses vs emitter glasses may depend on a bulb vs LED based DLP TV.


Certainly for pre-2010 Mits TVs which use a bulb, DLP Link seems to be the way to go (preferably a type that doesn't produce polarization rainbows), unless one prefers the IOD + generic emitter which is the first emitter based glasses I've heard about that block the flash. Hoping the CE4 blocks the flash as well as it might be the ideal choice for some.


----------



## EricUtah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19659052
> 
> 
> Eric, is your set using a bulb or LEDs? The advice of DLP Link glasses vs emitter glasses may depend on a bulb vs LED based DLP TV.
> 
> 
> Certainly for pre-2010 Mits TVs which use a bulb, DLP Link seems to be the way to go (preferably a type that doesn't produce polarization rainbows), unless one prefers the IOD + generic emitter which is the first emitter based glasses I've heard about that block the flash. Hoping the CE4 blocks the flash as well as it might be the ideal choice for some.



The HL61A750 & 67A750 are LED backlit DLP, no bulb. Updated the post above to narrow the advice to the two similar backlit LED models.


Hopefully we can get some more reviews in this thread with enough data to create a sticky post with known good configurations.


----------



## jkim5453




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricUtah* /forum/post/19659181
> 
> 
> The HL61A750 & 67A750 are LED backlit DLP, no bulb. Updated the post above to narrow the advice to the two similar backlit LED models.
> 
> 
> Hopefully we can get some more reviews in this thread with enough data to create a sticky post with known good configurations.



I think A650 models (bulb) are also affected:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89318


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkim5453* /forum/post/19662037
> 
> 
> I think A650 models (bulb) are also affected:
> 
> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89318



Very interesting. I noticed that an nVidia tech opened a new thread to solicit comments. In the new thread people say that nVidia made a change, apparently via a new driver v1.07 around April of 2009, and the red tint went away while wearing the synced nVidia glasses. My guess is that they altered the emitter signals in some way to shutter both lenses during the DLP Link flash.


----------



## jjknatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjknatl* /forum/post/19655491
> 
> 
> I just bought the CE5s and they do a nice job of blocking the flash and restoring blacks as well as eliminating the rainbow but I haven't used them enough yet to determine if I have a sync issue.



As I mentioned in the CE5 thread, I have now spent more time using these and the sync with my 65C9 is flawless in both 3D mode and dual view mode and the DLP Link flash is also properly blocked in both of those modes. No rainbows either. Couldn't be happier with them at this time and will plan to buy more of them once I sell my Mits glasses. I'll probably hang onto the Mits emitter so my daughter can continue to use her Samsung kids glasses (would be nice if there was a kids version to the CE5 although the CE5 may already fit kids anyway, haven't tried it).


----------



## dougaldy

Jkim,


Thats intersting that your changes to the picture settings stay when you swith it to PC. Mine stay but as soon as I put it in 3D mode it automatically changes to Dynamic and the only settings I can play with are the brightness and contrast.


----------



## jkim5453




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dougaldy* /forum/post/19665239
> 
> 
> Jkim,
> 
> 
> Thats intersting that your changes to the picture settings stay when you swith it to PC. Mine stay but as soon as I put it in 3D mode it automatically changes to Dynamic and the only settings I can play with are the brightness and contrast.



With the input named "PC", most options are greyed out in 3D mode, but I can still change among "Movie", "Standard", and "Dynamic" modes and change the brightness/contrast settings - but that's about it (i.e. can't change, tint, color, sharpness, etc.)


The important point I wanted to make was the "HDMI Black Level" setting. With input named "PC", this is also not accessible to change. On my TV (HL67A750), whatever value you had it set before naming the input to "PC" is what's in effect after you change the name to "PC" even if the greyed value shown may indicate otherwise.


With my Viewsonics, I started experimenting with viewing in "Dynamic" mode with brightness increased to 50 (contrast still at 100) to offset the overall dimming effect and improve the shadow detail a bit (above 50 the blacks definitely wash out for me). I wish the LEDs were at least 50% brighter (I run it at "Max"). To my untrained eyes, it looks like the shift to the much cooler color temperature isn't that apparent through the glasses, but I'll have to look at some different material. I think "Grand Canyon Adventures" might be a good one to see just how cool the colors get when viewing in "Dynamic" mode.


----------



## Bob7145

Just watched Dr. Strangelove (black and white) 2D to 3D conversion using PDVD10 Ultra and absolutely no hint of color. Viewsonic PGD-150 DLP glasses. I love these glasses. The power switch (doubles as inverter switch) is probably immune to accidental presses. Easy to do on other glasses if you are left handed.

Light weight. Comfortable.

Watched: Imax Deep Sea 3D, Color 2D to 3D conversion movie and a Black and White 2D to 3D conversion movie. All looked great.

Glad I waited for them to get back in stock.


----------



## BioSehnsucht

Just spent several hours playing Call of Duty: Black Ops on my HL61A750 (reprogrammed the EDID and using a Mitsubishi 3DA-1 since CoD:BO only supports side-by-side output) with a pair of ViewSonic PGD150's - never lost sync once. I also ran through some downloaded 3D content via my computer, don't have any 3D Blu-Rays yet even though my Panasonic DMP-BDT100 came in as well. I didn't want to invest any further than I had to before knowing the glasses and all would work - time to order a second PGD-150 and a movie or two!


----------



## jmcdon7230

My ViewSonic PGD150's (three of them) all work fine. Problem is that two out of three have developed cracks in the left arm. One cracked so badly that it is virtually unusable.


----------



## jkim5453




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmcdon7230* /forum/post/19671393
> 
> 
> My ViewSonic PGD150's (three of them) all work fine. Problem is that two out of three have developed cracks in the left arm. One cracked so badly that it is virtually unusable.



Unfortunately, the grilled area that's designed to flex a bit do look very fragile (looking at the thickness of the plastic). In light of reports like this, I handle them by the larger, more solid area closer to the lens and hope that minimizes the risk of damage.


Non-folding arms are a definite minus for this model. They'd be more prone to accidental damage while taking them out of storage or putting them away, etc.


----------



## avshtpcbob

I have tested Xpand 102's and ViewSonic PGD-150 DLP link glasses. I like the 150's better and they are cheaper. I had some funky issues with one of the xpands as well - may just be a one time thing, but since the packaging for the 150's were nicer and they worked I felt better with them. Happy with the choice. The 150's are too big for kids however. Xpands fit nicer. I also bought an emitter and 1 set of glasses from io systems. They look funky but also fit a small childs head. Good things is that these work in conjunction with the 150's I have. So I have a DLP link and IR set of glasses working together







One issue I had is that a newer 3D HDMI did not work with my Panny players.


Looking to get my PC up to 3D. I did se it as my bluray player and loved the quality. Panny's are just as good.


Anyone have experience with the Xpand 103's?


My Stuff:

Samsung HL67A750 and Panasonic BDT-350 / HL61A750 and Panasonic BDT-100

2 Viewsonic PGD-150 / IO system glasses (1) and IR emitter

IR and DLP Link together


----------



## walford

What do you mean by a "Newer HDMI" not working?


----------



## avshtpcbob

I bought an HDMI cable for the NEX that said 3D 1.4. It did not work. The signal was garbled or something and I had to rely on RCA cables to view the output from the BDT-350. I had an 'older' HDMI cable like 2+ years old. I plugged it in from the BDT to HDMI-3 and it worked. I dont know what that was about. Possibly could of been defective who knows. I had two of these cables from a kit I bought from Costco. So I used i right away on my sammy 61" from my BDT-100. No issues. So I am not sure what spec they are as I do not have the box nor do the have any labels.


----------



## taz291819




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avshtpcbob* /forum/post/19709631
> 
> 
> I bought an HDMI cable for the NEX that said 3D 1.4. It did nto work. The signal was garbled or somethign and I had to tely on RCA cables to view the output from the BDT-350. I had an 'older' HDMI cable like 2+ years old. I plugged it in from the BDT to HDMI-3 and it worked. I dont know what that was about. Oissibly could of been defective who knows. I had two of these cables from a kit I bought from Costco. So I used i right away on my sammy 61" from my BDT-100. No issues. So I am not sure waht spec they are as I do not ahve the box nor do the have any labels.



Don't buy the expensive HDMI cables claiming HDMI 1.4 support. Most regular high-speed HDMI cables (for HDMI 1.3) work with 3D just fine, they just won't work with the ethernet function.


I hooked up my parents new setup this weekend:

Mits 73738 (Set to Automatic)

Directv HR22

Panny BDT-100 (Set to Full 3D)

Onkyo HTS5300


All HDMI are run through the AVR, using cheap HDMI cables, and everything, including 3D work perfectly.


Blue Jeans Cables has a nice write up on their site about HDMI 1.4a cables.


----------



## walford

Cable manufacturer's are no longer allowed to make cables labled as HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 cables.

HDMI High speed cables are what is speced for use with HDMI 1.4 3d resolution content. However, for shorter distances 10' or less HDMI standard speed cables normally are sufficient.

HDMI 1.4a 3D content does NOT use an ethernet connection between sending and receiving system.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx


----------



## jmcdon7230




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmcdon7230* /forum/post/19671393
> 
> 
> My ViewSonic PGD150's (three of them) all work fine. Problem is that two out of three have developed cracks in the left arm. One cracked so badly that it is virtually unusable.



An update to this post. Now two out of the three pair of glasses have completely broken left arms. I have them duct taped in order to use them.


----------



## hceuterpe




Justin-Dawson said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkim5453* /forum/post/19656071
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That solid black becomes red when 3D mode is on as seen next:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same with the actual content while it's playing. So, at least for some of us, that's what we have with our Samsung models.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Just saw these pictures and I almost couldn't believe my eyes. I thought people complaining about the red/teal issues were probably overly concerning themselves with minute details of their PQ... i never thought it was anywhere near this bad. I can confirm that I do not see this issue at all - glasses on or off (not even the faintest red tint).
> 
> 
> Here's the interesting part though, I couldn't get DLP Link glasses to stay sync'd for more than 30 seconds or so... maybe I just got lucky and have a TV with a very "poor" performing DLP Link flash...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so granted you stated the photograph exaggerates the red tints, but it's still obvious even to an untrained eye, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...cause, I'm definitely not seeing that on my Samsung DLP. It's an 87S. You may be onto something though, that the older Samsung DLP units are better off with IR. Maybe the DLP Link on my generation simply doesn't work that well vs. the IR.
Click to expand...


----------



## hceuterpe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taz291819* /forum/post/19710218
> 
> 
> Don't buy the expensive HDMI cables claiming HDMI 1.4 support. Most regular high-speed HDMI cables (for HDMI 1.3) work with 3D just fine, they just won't work with the ethernet function.
> 
> 
> I hooked up my parents new setup this weekend:
> 
> Mits 73738 (Set to Automatic)
> 
> Directv HR22
> 
> Panny BDT-100 (Set to Full 3D)
> 
> Onkyo HTS5300
> 
> 
> All HDMI are run through the AVR, using cheap HDMI cables, and everything, including 3D work perfectly.
> 
> 
> Blue Jeans Cables has a nice write up on their site about HDMI 1.4a cables.




Who knew someone at BB in college that was a salesperson. He told me the biggest commission he got was on 1) Extended warranties 2) Cables. He said it directly correlated to the level of price markup on those items, vs what they actually cost BB. He could buy the same expensive cable for next to nothing with his store discount.

He sold them knowing very well how much extra $$$ he would get if he bagged a sale on those, and he claimed that was his only real motivation to push the sale of those add ons. However, he also mentioned that people would ignore those items if he didn't also sell the big ticket items like TVs, game consoles, and then other sales people for computers, etc. This account was before geek squad, but I suspect today that would be number 2 and cables would be #3, while extended warranties remained #1.


I think it's similar to the movie theater ticket vs popcorn/concession stand sales model in terms of profit, or the items Blockbuster sells vs the movies they rent in terms of profit. There's also the gas station vs. convenience store one, too. That model repeats itself in many businesses from what I understand.


----------



## Tyrod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hceuterpe* /forum/post/19730882
> 
> 
> Who knew someone at BB in college that was a salesperson. He told me the biggest commission he got was on 1) Extended warranties 2) Cables. He said it directly correlated to the level of price markup on those items, vs what they actually cost BB. He could buy the same expensive cable for next to nothing with his store discount.
> 
> He sold them knowing very well how much extra $$$ he would get if he bagged a sale on those, and he claimed that was his only real motivation to push the sale of those add ons. However, he also mentioned that people would ignore those items if he didn't also sell the big ticket items like TVs, game consoles, and then other sales people for computers, etc. This account was before geek squad, but I suspect today that would be number 2 and cables would be #3, while extended warranties remained #1.
> 
> 
> I think it's similar to the movie theater ticket vs popcorn/concession stand sales model in terms of profit, or the items Blockbuster sells vs the movies they rent in terms of profit. There's also the gas station vs. convenience store one, too. That model repeats itself in many businesses from what I understand.



Monoprice sells inexpensive HMDI cables that are 1.4a capable. I bought a few and upon receiving them I compared them to 1.3a Monoprice cables I bought a year earlier. Exact same model number and either are interchangeable. I bought 6 last year and 6 more this year and I've run out. I'm the family Nerd so I get to install all the family's tech stuff. Guess I'll have to get some more,


----------



## knobby

hceuterpe Have you tried the Xpand X103 Universal 3D Glasses with the emitter on your dlp set?if so how good do they work.i want to order a pair but concerned about issues.live in canada and they come from california.been burned once don't want to happen again if at all possible.


----------



## Travis8214

Speaking of XPand, any idea when the x104s are supposed to come out? I read something a few weeks back that said "January 2011", but right around this past summer it was "Q4 2010".


I've heard the x103s have amazing quality and I'd like to have glasses that both have arms and don't look awful. I'm not really a superficial person or anything but my main gripe with the Viewsonics and the Optomas (same glasses i think) are just ugly, and then the bright red coloring of the XPand x102s is also an eyesore...Oh and the arms, IIRC, neither the Optomas, Viewsonics, nor the x102s actually have folding arms. So...that's why I want x104s.


----------



## avshtpcbob

Regarding the PGD-150 and cracking/breaking arms. I am also a 'victim'. These glasses work great. Such a shame.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19737547


----------



## Travis8214

Yeah that's why I want folding arms


----------



## jsmiddleton4

"I've heard the x103s have amazing quality"


For me, PS3 to MIT 65738, the X103's lost synch. Was quite annoying.


The MIT/Samsung glasses did not and the 3 more pair I've picked up have not once.


----------



## Travis8214

Where would I even get the Samsung glasses?


----------



## BioSehnsucht




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BioSehnsucht* /forum/post/19671046
> 
> 
> Just spent several hours playing Call of Duty: Black Ops on my HL61A750 (reprogrammed the EDID and using a Mitsubishi 3DA-1 since CoD:BO only supports side-by-side output) with a pair of ViewSonic PGD150's - never lost sync once. I also ran through some downloaded 3D content via my computer, don't have any 3D Blu-Rays yet even though my Panasonic DMP-BDT100 came in as well. I didn't want to invest any further than I had to before knowing the glasses and all would work - time to order a second PGD-150 and a movie or two!



Well, I guess nothing was contrasting enough to notice it in Black Ops but after watching some movies I've found that my combination of TV (Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP) and glasses (PGD-150) I'm getting ghosting in highly contrasting areas. It's worse with red. I.e., in Resident Evil: Afterlife 3D, the subtitle indicating the location of the underground base near the start which is in red text you see it double, it doesn't seem to be effectively blocking the opposite eye for it - but blacks are black, not red. In Despicable Me it was much worse, for example the menu background animation loop, between the white background and the yellow minions there's a significant blue ghosting where they two eyes images are different.


So, looks like I need to try out some different 3D glasses to find some that don't ghost like this pronto and send the ViewSonic's back, which is a pity because they sync perfectly and otherwise work great / are comfortable, and were fairly cheap.


----------



## thebat68

Did you rename the HDMI input to PC? That helps with ghosting. Are these Blu ray 3D discs you are viewing? It shouldn't be the glasses. Also are you using an A/V receiver?


----------



## BioSehnsucht




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BioSehnsucht* /forum/post/19752798
> 
> 
> Well, I guess nothing was contrasting enough to notice it in Black Ops but after watching some movies I've found that my combination of TV (Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP) and glasses (PGD-150) I'm getting ghosting in highly contrasting areas. ...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thebat68* /forum/post/19755917
> 
> 
> Did you rename the HDMI input to PC? That helps with ghosting. Are these Blu ray 3D discs you are viewing? It shouldn't be the glasses. Also are you using an A/V receiver?



Actually tried that this morning after work and totally fixed it. Forgot to come back and update the thread. No downsides that I can see (some complained it killed EE, but that's fine - I keep it at 0). I saw that in the other thread for 3DA-1 on Samsung displays in the 3D Displays forum.


3D is now almost totally rock solid. No ghosting, no red hue (though that wasn't a problem with the glasses on anyways), and since I have a LED powered light cannon, brightness isn't an issue either







The only problem is of course can't display 3D at 24hz for movies, so I get ye olde 3:2 judder. I wish the BR player (or even the 3DA-1, but I don't use it for BR since the BDT100 can do checkerboard) was smart enough to at least fake a 24 to 120hz conversion the same way the TV set does normally for 24hz input (letting one half of the checkerboard transition to the next frame before the other).


----------



## Travis8214

Make sure you set the overscan to Wide - TV afterward, because on Wide-PC it actually underscans by a few inches on all sides. Also, and you'll most likely only notice this with a pattern for detecting it, it creates weird compression artifacts, not like typical artifacting but well literally as though you were to take a 1920x1080 image of anything and squash it down to say 1600x900 or so.


Edit: For me, setting the label to PC defaults to Wide-PC every time. Wide-TV seems to be the exact equivalent as Just Scan as the overscan pattern I used looked exactly the same in Just Scan


----------



## avshtpcbob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19255423
> 
> 
> Benq also has a pair that looks a little different than the others:
> 
> http://www.benq.com/products/product...ag=68&ptag=264
> 
> 
> I haven't heard any reports from someone with a pair though. I would love to get a pair without the polarization rainbows.



Unless I missed it, which is possible in this vast sea of knowledge at AVS, I see no mention of these glasses actually working with non BENQ DLP projectors and in my case DLP TV's. I sent them an email today so will share what they say when I get it. If someone already knows the answer please share


----------



## jsmiddleton4

Travis,


Lots of places including some forum members who sell them. For about a day Amazon had them on sale. I checked yesterday and they were sold out for the on-sale ones.


----------



## Travis8214




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jsmiddleton4* /forum/post/19808899
> 
> 
> Travis,
> 
> 
> Lots of places including some forum members who sell them. For about a day Amazon had them on sale. I checked yesterday and they were sold out for the on-sale ones.



Well, which ones were you talking about, the SSG1000? Or is there a newer pair available that sports DLP Link?


----------



## Mdurnin

I have also experienced the broken stem problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19827705


----------



## StreetPreacher

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Mdurnin* 
I have also experienced the broken stem problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19827705
Damn. I guess my 3 pair are going back and being replaced with the Ultra Clears! Too bad, because as others have said the Viewsonics perform wonderfully on my setup...


----------



## avshtpcbob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bcterp* /forum/post/19255423
> 
> 
> Benq also has a pair that looks a little different than the others:
> 
> http://www.benq.com/products/product...ag=68&ptag=264
> 
> 
> I haven't heard any reports from someone with a pair though. I would love to get a pair without the polarization rainbows.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avshtpcbob* /forum/post/19805620
> 
> 
> Unless I missed it, which is possible in this vast sea of knowledge at AVS, I see no mention of these glasses actually working with non BENQ DLP projectors and in my case DLP TV's. I sent them an email today so will share what they say when I get it. If someone already knows the answer please share



Reply from vendor: "Specification wise, BenQ 3D Goggles should be compatible with 3D DLP Link compatible (including nVidia 3D vision) devices capable of refresh rate of 120Hz or higher. Therefore, if these basic requirements are met, BenQ 3D Goggles should work. However, BenQ 3D Goggles are tuned and tweated to fully support BenQbrand of3D ready Projectors as the hardware is specifically optimized for it, therefore it may not guarantee full functionality or compatibility on other brands of Projectors, TV or monitors. If you do plan to make a purchase of BenQ 3D Goggles, I suggest if you can check with retailers if they have a demo they can lend or borrow for you to test on a Samsung TV before the purchase."


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## UnDecoded




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avshtpcbob* /forum/post/19832852
> 
> 
> However, BenQ 3D Goggles are tuned and tweated to fully support BenQbrand of3D ready Projectors as the hardware is specifically optimized for it,



Should we even believe that considering that they look the exact same way as the other generic DLP glasses?










May have to get a pair just to test it myself..


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## nickels55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkim5453* /forum/post/19656071
> 
> 
> ........
> 
> So, if you're trying Samsung-compatible IR glasses (Ultraclears, etc.) with Samsung DLPs, and if your TV has the red-tinted blacks as mine, I'd love to know how they perform in terms of removing the red-tint from blacks.



Wonderfully. The UC DLP Link glasses turn the reddish blacks on my 6187s into pure black. My issue with these glasses is they have trouble staying sync'd in daylight. At night they are perfect. The biggest other issue with UC's are the rainbows on these sets.


I am putting together a shutter glasses excel spreadsheet that I'll publish as soon as I get it all the info filled in on it.


EDIT - darn, sorry about my answer. I am referring to UC DLP Link glasses. I'd love to know this info on UC IR glasses as well.


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## nickels55

*ViewSonice PGD-150's*


Just got a set and it only took a minute to decide that I hate them. Heavy, uncomfortable, and the arms don't fold in. The PQ is the same as the UC glasses. They use 2 batteries, and the cover is screwed on tight for some reason. The only thing these have going for them is the ability to reverse the sync mode on the glasses.


AVOID! UC's are 1000x more comfortable.


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## JOHNnDENVER

I will get a chance to try out a few different glasses tonight. Myself plus two other friends that have implemented 3D are getting together to screen some 3D and try different glasses out and swap some 3D BD's amungst us.


One guy uses RF glasses he was bringing his emitter and glasses over. I did not even know they existed.


I have DLP-Link - 2 Viewsonic, 4 Xpand red original X102's, 4 new gen blue X102's too I also have 3D Vision glasses (is there a way to use the 3D Vision with a normal emitter and not from a PC USB port?)



The last guy uses Sony brand that he got with his Sony Edge lit LED 3DTV. They have a separate emittier, I can only hope they will work at my house where I use two DLP displays for 3D.


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## high def mon

"One guy uses RF glasses he was bringing his emitter and glasses over. I did not even know they existed."


Could those RF glasses be these: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5938 I have a pair&transmitter on back-order. The back-order may not be such a bad thing since I'm waiting for a review. I have a HL 67a750 LED DLP. I got an email from Monstervision saying that BB will be selling them. No word from a call to BB.


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## nickels55

There is a review up on youtube right now:
*Monstervision Mini Review*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2CyRLfDNfc


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## high def mon

Thanks, need a review using a LED DLP display.


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## JOHNnDENVER

Pretty sure the RF's are Monster. Not postive though I will know in a few hours here.


Overall? From all I have seen and tried on? I still prefer the Xpand 102's, except for kids. decently light weight, durable, and are confortable wearing over prescription eye wear.


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## JOHNnDENVER

Well I watched about 12 movies equvelent worth of 3D this weekend.


The guy with the RF's glasses cancelled. the guy with the Sony came over.


Sony Glasses

The Sony emitter is king. It's a big ol horizontle thing and very powerful, the thing syncs glasses down the hall and around the corner completely out of sight of the TV.


The glasses are hard, heavy and uncomfortable though. They do seem of decently solid contruction though. My wife could not wear them over her existing eye glasses at all.


They had an oddity on the sync though, you could not side tilt your head to much or they would lose sync.


DLP-Link - Absolutely no difference between red models and blu X102's as far as we could tell. The DLP-Link X102's are much lighter than the Sony's, and made of a nice soft flexy rubbery material. My wife says they are very comfortable over her existing glasses. They are at the top as far as durable goes as long as you don't break them getting the battery in and out.


Range is limited from my 65" (12' to 13'), but seem unlimited on the 106" screen in the theater. I think they over heat too. 2 hours is about it with them. It's not the battery though, they just seem to over heat, they even seemed a bit hot on our faces after 90 min or so. We were able to use the same pair again for another couple of hours late in the evening.


I also have Viewsonic DLP-Link

Least durable by far, weight was between the Sony and the X102's. Range is a better by about 3' on the 65" display than the 102's. My wife states they do not wear over glasses well. They also did not seem to have the over heating issue either.



Pro's and Con's summary?

The Sony's were king on sync range which genuinely seemed unlimited, but not really king on sync because you could not side title you head to much. The Sony's seemed a little dimmer with not quite as good of a color reporduciton as the FLP-Link glasses.


The DLP-Link X102's had the worst range on the 65" 3D Mitsu, but seemed to have the brightest images, best color reporduciton and seem to allow the most versitile head positioning. In other words I could actually lay down with on and be just fine with synd and PQ. The also were deemed the most comfortable by a mile for my wife who wears them over prescription glasses. They seemed to over heat and start giving odd issues after about 2hours-ish.


The Viewsonic DLP-Link

Had better range on the 65" Mtisu than the X102s, the PQ was maybe a very small notch below the 102's, my wife states that work over prescription glasses but are not comfortable doing so. Overall because they were quite a bit lighter, they were more comfortable overall than the Sony glasses, but not as comfortable as the X102's. I could still lay down with them as far as sync went, but the hard plastic was not comfortable when doing so. They never over heated though, I think I did 4 hours with them on straight which was about all I could take on the comfort level anyways.




I hope this helps anybody considering the different aspects of shutter glasses before purchase.


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## vamovie

whats the difference between

nvidia active shutter glasses

dlp active shutter glasses

what are the chances/choices for substitute nvidia glasses


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