# New software clobbers CA in modified 55xx units



## DarkScreen

This morning, my 5504s with a 50xx image running CA got a new software download. After the unit restarted, the CA feature was GONE.


Guess us CA diehards will need to wait for someone with a 55xx to upload an image with the new software (unless CA has been removed from them too!)....and then begin the painful process of downloading all programs to DV Archive, pulling out the HDD's, and writing the 50xx image on them.


Seems like this is a fire drill we'll need to repeat every time we're treated to a new software download.


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## icecow

what version of software did it put in?


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## DarkScreen

530511440


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## Amazingly Smooth

Don't worry. There won't be that many software updates...


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## DarkScreen

Can anyone verify that the new software still supports CA on 50xx machines?


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## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*This morning, my 5504s with a 50xx image running CA got a new software download. After the unit restarted, the CA feature was GONE.


Guess us CA diehards will need to wait for someone with a 55xx to upload an image with the new software (unless CA has been removed from them too!)....and then begin the painful process of downloading all programs to DV Archive, pulling out the HDD's, and writing the 50xx image on them.


Seems like this is a fire drill we'll need to repeat every time we're treated to a new software download.*
You really need to learn the Wirns way of enabling CA/IVS (assuming it still works). I have a 5504 but it hasn't yet got this new software release. As soon as I get it and if I find CA/IVS gone then I will try and re-enable with the Wirns trick. Takes 5 mins if you know what you're doing and no hassle of re-imaging.


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## bradbomb

plus the wirns way doesnt need us to wait for someone to post an image from a 50xx with the new software. But if this is true, this turns around what was previously thought. When I had first stumbled on the reimaging trick, I had used an earlier software version and my machine had updated itself to the later version and it kept the CA and IVS active. I hope DNNA is not out to stop this because they are already losing customers on there lack of updating the line of REplayTVs and the hints that they are just going to phase them out completely and stick to only high end machines


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## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Can anyone verify that the new software still supports CA on 50xx machines?*
I'm confident it will.


The thing to do now is ignore the situation for a few days. The new image will go up to the ftp server and you can reimage. Just distract yourself away from the issue. It's magic


or learn the WiRNs thing


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## plyons10

Quote:

_Originally posted by bradbomb_
*But if this is true, this turns around what was previously thought. When I had first stumbled on the reimaging trick, I had used an earlier software version and my machine had updated itself to the later version and it kept the CA and IVS active.*


Hmmm... that sounds bad... I don't know, Cow. It might be different this time.


I do remember people saying they got upgraded and kept CA / IVS... but not this time. That's not cool.


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## DarkScreen

Does the Wirns trick let CA work locally on the ReplayTV units (and with the 50xx style CA menus enabled) or must DV Archive be running on the network?


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## icecow

oh..


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## DarkScreen

Has anyone found a reliable way to re-image without losing all the recorded programs? Downloading to DV Archive is a pain.


Or, has anyone come up with a way to upload DV Archive shows back to the ReplayTV?


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## l8er

FWIW, the hardware in a ShowStopper and a ReplayTV 3XXX series machine is virtually identical. But there was a time they treated macrovision differently. Early on a ShowStopper would not display nor allow recording of any macrovision encoded content, while a ReplayTV would display it and record it. If you put a ReplayTV 3XXX image on a ShowStopper, it would allow macrovision until the next net connect and then revert to the ShowStopper method. Same software, just a flag in the software to tell it to behave like a ShowStopper or ReplayTV. (This all changed with version 3 of the software, making the two lines of machines operationally identical)


If DNNA has indeed decided to remove CA and IVS from 55XX series machines, my guess is that it will be difficult to keep those features enabled if you allow the machine to net connect. Re-imaging may only work until it net connects.


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Has anyone found a reliable way to re-image without losing all the recorded programs?*
No.

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Or, has anyone come up with a way to upload DV Archive shows back to the ReplayTV?*
And no.


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## Creech

I'm assuming it did, but did it clobber IVS as well?


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## DarkScreen

Yup. No IVS. Just the default 55xx features.


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## gweempose

It is highly unlikely that they will ever disable CA and IVS on the 5000 series. Can you imagine the mutiny they would have on their hands? I, for one, would never buy a D&M product again.


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## DarkScreen

Act fast!!


Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:


1. Disconnect your DSL or CableModem (so that your RTV's can't download the new software before you're ready).


2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).


3. Take the HDD out of RTV 1 and re-image it with a 50xx image that has the new software version on it (when available).


4. Disconnect the LAN cable from RTV 2 and then re-connect the broadband cable.


5. Connect to the service on RTV 1 and confirm that no new software is downloaded (software download messages last several minutes). After connection completes, confirm that CA and IVS features are still there.


6. Disconnect the broadband cable and reconnect the LAN to RTV 2.


7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.


6. Repeat steps 3 and 5 for RTV 2.


7. Transfer any desired shows from RTV 1 back to RTV 2.


Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.


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## johnmagee4

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Act fast!!


Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:

...

2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).

...


7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.

...

Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.*
You probably won't be able to re-IVS a show back to your other machine in the same what that you can't send a received show to someone else.


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## Lazlo

Unless I've missed something here, once you move a show from RTV1 to RTV2, you won't be able to re-send that show from RTV2 to any other machine. That inherent limitation is one of the few things that kept IVS alive for as long as it was.


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## Lazlo

D'oh. Just what I get for reading the thread but not reloading it after the five minutes it took to read thoroughly. What johnmagee4 said.


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## MaxH

You also won't be able to send shows from one ReplayTV to another via IVS unless you have a router that can handle loopback, and most can't. If you can, great, more power to you.


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## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Act fast!!


Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:


1. Disconnect your DSL or CableModem (so that your RTV's can't download the new software before you're ready).


2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).


3. Take the HDD out of RTV 1 and re-image it with a 50xx image that has the new software version on it (when available).


4. Disconnect the LAN cable from RTV 2 and then re-connect the broadband cable.


5. Connect to the service on RTV 1 and confirm that no new software is downloaded (software download messages last several minutes). After connection completes, confirm that CA and IVS features are still there.


6. Disconnect the broadband cable and reconnect the LAN to RTV 2.


7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.


6. Repeat steps 3 and 5 for RTV 2.


7. Transfer any desired shows from RTV 1 back to RTV 2.


Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.*
Have you even looked into WiRNS? Sure seems like that's what you need, but don't want to try...


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## Slack

It's almost as if the 're-imager-wanna-dos' have every wirns suggester in their ignore list.


Friggin shame that.

I mean for chris sakes let's make this as hard as it possibly can be.


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## DarkScreen

Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.


A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated.


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## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.


A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated.*
WiRNS and DVArchive have nothing to do with each other. In it's normal incarnation, WiRNS proxies transactions between your Replay and the mothership to load non-mothership guide data. In this particular application you don't need to set up all the guide data re-direction. If you do a search there is a ton of info on WiRNS.


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## dfjkl

As a matter of fact, Wirns and DVArchive CANNOT be running at the same time on the same machine. They both fight over port 80.


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## Wrecks

So what will software version 530511440 do for us?


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## adone36

Our hysterical poster not withstanding, I thought a software update ALWAYS returned a modded 55XX back to its original state.


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## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*As a matter of fact, Wirns and DVArchive CANNOT be running at the same time on the same machine. They both fight over port 80.*
Errm, wrong.


If you're running win2k or XP you can add a second IP address to your NIC. Then assign that second NIC to DVArchive via the DVarchive properties page.


John


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*I thought a software update ALWAYS returned a modded 55XX back to its original state.*
Not true. A factory reset always returned it to its original state, but not a software update.


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*Have you even looked into WiRNS?*
If DNNA has decided to disable CA and IVS on the 55XX series, WiRNS in its current incarnation will not re-enable them.


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## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.


A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated.*
You don't need DVArchive at all. You only need a very minimal Wirns install and you only need to run Wirns once to enable things, then you don't need Wirns anymore. Of course, this is all assuming the new software hasn't changed the way it deals with registry settings. I'm not going to bother trying until I get the new software.


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## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Errm, wrong.


If you're running win2k or XP you can add a second IP address to your NIC. Then assign that second NIC to DVArchive via the DVarchive properties page.


John*
Technicalities now, eh?!! Yeah, you're right there. OK, they cannot occupy the same port (80) on the same ip address.


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## DarkScreen

Quote:

You don't need DVArchive at all. You only need a very minimal Wirns install and you only need to run Wirns once to enable things, then you don't need Wirns anymore. Of course, this is all assuming the new software hasn't changed the way it deals with registry settings. I'm not going to bother trying until I get the new software.
Sorry, my dumb pills haven't worn off yet. When you say "enable things" do you mean that the 55xx units (at least with the previous Replay software) will think they're 50xx units and show the CA related options on-screen?


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## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Sorry, my dumb pills haven't worn off yet. When you say "enable things" do you mean that the 55xx units (at least with the previous Replay software) will think they're 50xx units and show the CA related options on-screen?*
I wouldn't phrase it quite that way but yes, they will show CA & IVS options. I used both very extensively with my 5504 over the last 2-3 months as have many others. Previously a 243-Zones factory reset was known to reset (kill) the features, but you could just run the Wirns plugin again to re-enable, and now looks like software updates can/do reset things too.


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## Bigjohns

So someone who has been 'boned' by this new software definately needs to try the WIRNS config! ASAP.


We might need to get some reverse engineering done again if WIRNS don't work.... and 50xx images don't keep.... OY!


John


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## clambert11

I think this post is somewhat funny actually. It ends up scaring a lot of people for no reason. Choosing to reimage the drive over the WiRNS method is just downright silly (unless for some reason it's your only option). At first, people thought this was the only option 2 enable CA & IVS. As it turns out, it's not. It's A LOT more work to do it this way, plus you lose your shows. Why bother?


We already pretty much knew that a factory reset or software update would reset the hacked features. It'll just take a couple minutes again to reinitiate the features again using WiRNS.


Now if for some reason the new software update prohibited WiRNS from working, that would suck. But I really doubt that is the case here. It's really not worth worrying over yet. And if I do lose it, oh well. Yeah, I would be bummed. But I bought a 5504, not a 5040.


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## Jeff D

I tried both my 5.5k boxes and neither has a update pushed... so, anyone else with a clue got a 5.5k box with a newer version?


If I suspect correctly wirns may be the only option now, but that's impossible to say without looking at what's going on.


updates should not reset the box, shouldn't not... but I'm sure they can do whatever they want. =)


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## plyons10

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*We already pretty much knew that a factory reset or software update would reset the hacked features. It'll just take a couple minutes again to reinitiate the features again using WiRNS.
*
Actually, we did not think that a software update would disable these features. Pre-WiRNS, people loaded older version of the 5xxx software onto their 55xxs, re-connected to the mother ship, downloaded newer software, and yet they preserverd CA and IVS.


The hysteria around this all goes back to the fact that the WiRNS method of re-enabling CA / IVS was not, at first, openly and fully disclosed by those in the know. So many users do not use that method still.


At this point, until someone with the new 55xx software uses that method to re-enable CA /IVS, we just don't know the status.


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## plyons10

BTW... if you have the new software for the 55xx and are willing to do a little work (without losing any shows or cracking open your Replay case), let us know and we'll walk you through it.


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## DarkScreen

Quote:

BTW... if you have the new software for the 55xx and are willing to do a little work (without losing any shows or cracking open your Replay case), let us know and we'll walk you through it.
As an early bonee and completely oblivious of wirns until today (although I have had some exposure to worms), I tried seeing if I could get wirns set up on my Windows 2000 PC to try it out on one of my 5504's. Trying to follow the installation procedure, I had some success in getting wirns to download Guides, but not to connect to the RTV (I don't think). It's likely that my guesses at one or more of the ip or dns numbers are wrong.


Peter, I'd like to take you up on your offer to walk me through the process. Or, if there's a foolproof-for-dummies procedure you can post for this, it should prove useful to others once the software rollout spreads to the rest of the world.


If you want to do it over the phone, send me a private message with your phone number and a good time for me to call. I'm in the PDT timezone.


Thanks, Barry


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## Jeff D

Barry, you don't even need to do the guide stuff, it's actually much quicker than the guide download versions. All that is required is to get the replay to correctly connect to to the replay servers via you wirns PC.


Make sure you don't have DVArchive on the PC that's running the proxy. The trick is making sure wirns configured to your DNS server (most of the times it's your router IP when the router resolves to the DNS provided by your IP) Otherwise you need to set it to the value provided by your IP.


What town you in?


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## richierich

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Or, if there's a foolproof-for-dummies procedure you can post for this, it should prove useful to others once the software rollout spreads to the rest of the world.


Thanks, Barry*
I found the following thread incredibly useful (I was helping a friend--I own 50XX machines so didn't need to run it myself). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=2


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## DarkScreen

Quote:

All that is required is to get the replay to correctly connect to to the replay servers via you wirns PC
Jeff, sounds encouraging, but I still have some questions:


I have DVArchive installed on the PC I'm using with wirns, but it's not running at the same time as the wirns server. Is this OK?

Quote:

The trick is making sure wirns configured to your DNS server (most of the times it's your router IP when the router resolves to the DNS provided by your IP)
On the http://127.0.0.1:8923/manage/ConfigureWirns site, I have the wirns IP set to the IP address of my PC and the DNS server set to the IP address of my router box (not my ISP's IP address). Is this correct?


I have a fixed IP address on my RTV, but I'm unclear as to what the DNS1 and 2 settings should be on the RTV. Right now they (and the gateway) are set to the address of the router.


Additionally, I have the IIS Admin Service turned off so that DVArchive can run its server when launched. Is this a problem?


If and when I'm able to get things configured correctly, is it obvious as to how I get to the controls that turn the CA feature back on? I didn't see anything on the web site above that looked like it would do this.


BTW, I'm in west San Jose.


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## j.m.

DarkScreen,

I think part of your confusion stems from the fact that most everyone is leaving out a major piece of the puzzle for the WiRNS solution--my GetShellCommands.dll plugin. See the site in my sig, get the plugin, and follow its included instructions instead of those for WiRNS (GSC only requires a subset of the normal WiRNS install). You will need to supply your own shell commands as appropriate, but those can be found in many threads here (including the one linked by richierich above).


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## DarkScreen

Quote:

I think part of your confusion stems from the fact that most everyone is leaving out a major piece of the puzzle for the WiRNS solution--my GetShellCommands.dll plugin.
Yes! A very large missing piece to this puzzle. And with richierich's link, I'm ready to take another stab at it. Thanks!


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## plyons10

Sounds like you are on your way... The IP addresses you are using all look square to me. I would call tonight , but it's past my bed time in the East (I'm a bond trader, and we get up before the farmers out here).


If you can't get it tonight, we can try again tomorrow... but I think you're 75% there.


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## topdj1

i have three 5000 michines and two new ones on the way. when i pull the hds out of the the new ones to put new larger drives in. Will it help out if i copy the drive image after the software update for you 5500 guys?


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## Jeff D

DarkScreen (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) but... IIRC the replay needs to be static and you need to set the DNS 1 value to the IP of the wirns machine. You only need one, but you do need wirns running when you attempt to change the replay's DNS value.


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## rm -rf *.*

There was something on the old tiwiki site that caught my eye a long time ago, but, it just ened up slipping by the wayside and being forgotten about - until now. Kinna need a clue card from someone who has a more advanced insight into the ReplayTV OS on this one and since this seems like an ideal thread to stuff it into...



If one were to take an RTV-55xx that is fully functional running a 5040 OS image, say v530510190, (eg: CA & IVS currently "ON") would toggling the registry flag "Software/Apps/Setup/AllowSysUpdate" prevent the loading of this new OS build (and therefore preserving the CA & IVS)?


I'd experiment on one of my RTV's, but I don't have a 55xx anymore. I did however, enable the flag on one of my 5040's running v530510190, but, the new *cough* virus, er, OS build doesn't seem to have made it out the left coast yet...



If you need more details, let me know - I am knowingly & completely intentionally, omitting certian details (if you know the answer, then you know what I'm omitting - if you don't, then, most likely

_you_don't_...) because I don't exactly know what the above will produce for results and I don't want a herd of 55xx lemmings following me if the above has some adverse side effects - which I believe that it might...


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## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*DarkScreen (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) but... IIRC the replay needs to be static and you need to set the DNS 1 value to the IP of the wirns machine. You only need one, but you do need wirns running when you attempt to change the replay's DNS value.*
An alternative to the above which worked for me - I leave the RTV settings alone (DHCP) and temporarily adjust the DNS of the router setup itself to point to Wirns server. I find this a little easier then messing with the RTV setup. Once the net connect completes and I verify the features are enabled reverting the router back to it's correct DNS settings is a breeze.


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## Darq

It's been a long time since i last used the wirns method, so it's possible that i'm doing it wrong. But, my 5504 connected thru wirns (i saw the proxy window handling the requests), so it looks like it connected successfully.


Unfortunately, after a wirns connection, and even after a reboot, CA and IVS is still gone on my 5504.


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## rm -rf *.*

If that's correct, I was kinna wondering when DNNA was going close the liability loophole and pull the plug on this s**t...


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## Jeff D

The fact that it was open shouldn't have been a liability if the users do stuff after the sale it's not really the fault of the developer. But... that's open to argument I guess. I would think it's up to DNNA and folks running around in suits.


as for the suggested method above about updates, I can't report any success. I've tried a few things and can seem to get the registry to take my changes. I'm asking for help from the higher powers... =)


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## DarkScreen

Thanks to those who've provided the missing puzzle pieces, I think I've got the wirns thing properly connecting to my 5504 with the new RTV software.


Unfortunately, it doesn't end up enabling CA or IVS. Doing a "Connect to ReplayTV Service Now" goes through all the normal on-screen status information that it does when connecting to the mothership. Looking at the wirnserv console screen during this process, the RTV does seem to be communicating with my PC and the GetShellCommand seems to be trying to do its thing.


If I'm doing things right, then it looks like the updated software on 55xx units may be another new challenge for the software gurus.


BTW, although I've been distracted with wirns and worms, I've not noticed any functional differences with the new RTV software. I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software. This could make things really difficult.


Here's what the console looks like from program launch to completion of the RTV "connection":




Like the Olympics venue, much of it is Greek to me. I'm sure it tells a story to some of you. Hopefully it will be helpful in either pointing out errors of mine or a helping to come up with a new solution for dealing with the lost CA and IVS features.


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software.*
I can understand why they would remove features from a series never intended to have them (55XX). On the other hand, I see no reason why they would disable those features on a series that was sold with them included.


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## plyons10

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*I can understand why they would remove features from a series never intended to have them (55XX). On the other hand, I see no reason why they would disable those features on a series that was sold with them included.*
It's very unlikely they would do so, if only because I fairly certain they are still sitting on a pile of refurb'd 50xx's that they are probably anxious to get rid of (and to sell subscriptions for).


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## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by rm -rf *.*_
*If one were to take an RTV-55xx that is fully functional running a 5040 OS image, say v530510190, (eg: CA & IVS currently "ON") would toggling the registry flag "Software/Apps/Setup/AllowSysUpdate" prevent the loading of this new OS build (and therefore preserving the CA & IVS)?*
FWIW, I do not believe that regedit value controls software upgrades. I'm not sure it controls anything. In the event it does, it is easy enough to toggle this value by entering 989-zones at the "Dial Method" setup screen (the one that says "Choose the dialing method that works for your area").


Again though, I don't think it will have the desired effect. However, try setting "SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload" to "TRUE" as it ostensibly should work.


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## Jeff D

Maybe it's time to take this talk underground? I think the next development should be kept quite.


I'm all for sharing, but in this case it had a negative result. Next time no one talks. 


We need a secret handshake.


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## plyons10

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*I'm all for sharing, but in this case it had a negative result. Next time no one talks. 
*
It's really premature to draw that conclusion. First of all, I dont' think it's even been definitively proven that the new software disables the work-around for CA / IVS.... I won't be convinced until a seasoned Replay veteran gets his / her hands on the software and verifies it.


I'm skeptical of any claims that DNNA actually gives a [email protected] about this stuff, frankly. They have other things to worry about -- there is no litigation on this matter, nor any settlements with which to comply that would motivate them to make this change.


And if they did care about the miniscule portion of their 55xx users who took advantage of this, it would be much easier and effective to send out a pause ad or some other notice to these users. This would also cover their legal butt alot more effectively than pushing the new software (which utimately will also be cracked anyway).


Don't let's get parnoid. Even if the new software forces us to change our approach, I'm willing to bet the price of a 5040 that it had very little to do with the hacks discussed here, and was instead an inadvertent change.


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## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*

...

BTW, although I've been distracted with wirns and worms, I've not noticed any functional differences with the new RTV software.


I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software. This could make things really difficult.

...
*
Closed Captioning is improved.


b144 does not affect the availability of CA and IVS on 50xx, meaning they

are still available.


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## DarkScreen

Quote:

b144 does not affect the availability of CA and IVS on 50xx
This is good news!


Keep in mind that my failure (and others?) to get CA and IVS working on a 55xx could very well be pilot error. See post 56 for further details.


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## dfjkl

I've got a 5504 coming my way that I had intended on using the Wirns method on. Needless to say, I'm very interested in this topic.


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## rm -rf *.*

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*The fact that it was open shouldn't have been a liability if the users do stuff after the sale it's not really the fault of the developer. But... that's open to argument I guess. I would think it's up to DNNA and folks running around in suits.


as for the suggested method above about updates, I can't report any success. I've tried a few things and can seem to get the registry to take my changes. I'm asking for help from the higher powers... =)*


If someone can sue a firearms manufacturer because they built a product and somebody misused it and killed someone else and have the mfgr be found liable or a family member can sue a automobile manufacturer because their now injured/deceased relative used one of their vehicles in a manner inconstant with that under which it was sold and again, the mfgr is found liable == then I don't see how this can be any different - although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.


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## blacknoi

I'm in NJ and have a 5504. I confirm I've lost my IVS and CA (that I enabled via WiRNS originally).



My replay must have just gotten the new sofware. I'm very sad.


EDIT: I forgot to mention, that I tried using WiRNS to put it back on and NOTHING. It did not come back.


My IVS and CA was on there for about 2 months (as soon as I got the Replay, i did the wirns trick to turn it on).


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

I forgot to mention, that I tried using WiRNS to put it back on and NOTHING. It did not come back.
Greg, thanks for further validating that this is a genuine problem with the new software. And one that the current version of wirns does not resolve.


Guess we'll have to reduce our quality of life a little and put a little extra wear on the right arrow key on the remote.... until the software wizards figure things out. I'm confident that they will.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by rm -rf *.*_
*If someone can sue a firearms manufacturer because they built a product and somebody misused it and killed someone else and have the mfgr be found liable or a family member can sue a automobile manufacturer because their now injured/deceased relative used one of their vehicles in a manner inconstant with that under which it was sold and again, the mfgr is found liable == then I don't see how this can be any different - although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.*
Thank the lord that most states have outlawed such suits. If YOU misuses a product, the manufacturer of that product can't be liable. Imagine if you could sue BIC lighter company because it set fire to your house when you tried to burn off a pan full of gasoline in your garage?


----------



## GooberedUp

Quote:

_Originally posted by rm -rf *.*_
*although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.*
Niiiice . . .


----------



## johnmagee4

So is it official... there is no current way around this? Or is it strictly on the QT... the hush hush... etc.? 


My theory is that NBC paid them to remove it during the Olympics. There's a commercial every 3 minutes, then 3 minutes of someone's life story, and then 30 seconds of event time... rinse and repeat.


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by rm -rf *.*_ *ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.*
oh snap


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*However, try setting "SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload" to "TRUE" as it ostensibly should work.*
Does this look about right?

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1


I feel like I'm missing a keyname in there. Other commands look like:

regedit setval and this one is just

regedit setval .


Clarification before full roll-out would be most appreciated. Thanks.


EDIT: I should mention that I've been through the Molehill site and I don't see mention of an appropriate keyname.


----------



## j.m.

regedit setstr SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload "TRUE"


This may or may not work. Use at your own risk! YMMV.


----------



## Jeff D

It's a value not a string and you want it set to 1 to disable the check.


Conspiracy was right, at least that's worked for me and I've been able to disable the pending update with this method on my 5k box.


Software/Apps/Setup AllowSysUpdate seems to have no affect on anything.


----------



## moyekj

So Jeff, I take it that would be:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1

NOT

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*So Jeff, I take it that would be:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1

NOT

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.*
How does one do this process? I have a 5040 basically virgin hard disk here, and a 5504 that's about to land via the Fed X guy....


John


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by johnmagee4_
*So is it official... there is no current way around this? Or is it strictly on the QT... the hush hush... etc.? 


My theory is that NBC paid them to remove it during the Olympics. There's a commercial every 3 minutes, then 3 minutes of someone's life story, and then 30 seconds of event time... rinse and repeat.*
So if they could sneak this past the experts in this forum any chance they might try something similiar and disable dva streaming.


That would be pretty stupid, but I've seen a lot of stupid stuff happending lately.


Question: I would think if you droped an image on the 5504 it would restore ca until the next software push.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*I've been able to disable the pending update with this method on my 5k box.*
Allow me to play devil's advocate here for a minute: it appears that DNNA is now checking the serial number at net connect time and disabling CA and IVS on 55XX machines if those features are enabled. I would guess there's also some sort of software version check at net connect time as well, so their server knows whether to push a software version to a given machine or not. IIRC, there's some language in the user agreement that the software cannot be altered or reverse engineered. So what's to stop DNNA from no longer providing service to a machine that has been altered to not accept a software update?


----------



## richierich

First pure speculation, then more speculation. If the WiRNS trick isn't turning CA back on even for a short period of time, then I suspect that the software is no longer checking the registry value to determine if CA should be on or not. I would imagine that they check the serial number instead. You can't fiddle with the serial number (at least not in an easy way--anything is possible I suppose) so this would make the CA issue for 55XX machines set in stone.


Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.


I think odds of losing DVArchive capability are remote at best. First of all, there has never been a hint of legal issues with the in-home video sharing which is what DVArchive is taking advantage of. Second, DVArchive has to be considered a selling point by DNNA. They aren't likely to just up and decide to abandon a strong feature that costs DNNA nothing to maintain and improve.


And that's my gems for the day ;-)


Richard


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by richierich_
*First pure speculation, then more speculation. If the WiRNS trick isn't turning CA back on even for a short period of time, then I suspect that the software is no longer checking the registry value to determine if CA should be on or not. I would imagine that they check the serial number instead. You can't fiddle with the serial number (at least not in an easy way--anything is possible I suppose) so this would make the CA issue for 55XX machines set in stone.


Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.


I think odds of losing DVArchive capability are remote at best. First of all, there has never been a hint of legal issues with the in-home video sharing which is what DVArchive is taking advantage of. Second, DVArchive has to be considered a selling point by DNNA. They aren't likely to just up and decide to abandon a strong feature that costs DNNA nothing to maintain and improve.


And that's my gems for the day ;-)


Richard*
I think the vast majority of replaytv users do not use dva. And I hope your right but it seems to me all they would need to do is change the guideparser and thats all she wrote.


On the other hand, tivo is starting to offer similar features (and Ivs) so they could potentially harm themselves.


I don't care too much about ca but I'd hate to lose dva streaming. The impact for me is I would probably go to windows mce before I considered Tivo.


----------



## DarkScreen

Richierich said:
Quote:

Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software
Richierich has some good points. Sounds like Conspiracy (message #72) and JeffD (#74) have already successfully tried the "leave me alone, my software's ok" tactic.


This may be a somewhat fragile stopgap solution. Here's why:


Through no evil intent of DNNA, it's possible that they may have made changes to this latest version of the software (or future ones) that will handle mothership guide and other information transfers, protocols, and processing differently. A legitimate reason for this would be to make their guide database more compatible with their new/future line of products or maybe just to add features or improve the service.


If the mothership starts sending out this newly structured data and they get confirmation from an RTV that it's software is up-to-date (and therefore compatible), then there could be serious data corruption issues. Analogous to saying, "Sure. Go ahead. My engine's been modified. Fill 'er up with diesel."


Under this speculative scenario, it may be more likely that the DNNA server actually reads the software version from the RTV before sending out the new style of data. In this case, their server might try to force a software update (even if DisableSoftwareDownload 1 set the registry to report that it's already up-to-date), not initiate the data transfer (so why is the schedule on my RTV not updating?), or display an error message. I'm actually a little surprised that they don't already read the actual software version in the unit (vs looking at the registry) to determine if an update is required.


Progress thru paranoia!


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*It's a value not a string and you want it set to 1 to disable the check.
*
Okay, I had just guessed that it was a TRUE/FALSE string based on some of the other regedit entries. When an entry doesn't already exist in the registry by default, it is hard to tell (without trying it) whether it should be created as a 0/1 value or T/F string. ReplayTV uses both in the registry, seemingly without rhyme or reason. Doesn't make a lot of sense if you ask me, but that's the way it is.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*So Jeff, I take it that would be:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1

NOT

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.*
No,

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1

is the correct format. See my previous post as to why it takes a wild guess sometimes to determine whether the entry requires setval 0/1 or setstr TRUE/FALSE.


From the regedit usage info:
Code:


Code:


Usage: regedit show    "keyname"
      regedit showall "keyname"
      regedit create  "keyname"
      regedit delete  "keyname" [valuename]
      regedit setstr  "keyname" "valuename" "string"
      regedit setval  "keyname" "valuename" value
      regedit save    "keyname" "filename"
      regedit load    "keyname" "filename"
      regedit init
      regedit flush


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by richierich_
*Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.*
There was a NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for WiRNS 0.7, but I do not believe that kjac has updated it for 1.x yet.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Through no evil intent of DNNA, it's possible that they may have made changes to this latest version of the software (or future ones) that will handle mothership guide and other information transfers, protocols, and processing differently. A legitimate reason for this would be to make their guide database more compatible with their new/future line of products or maybe just to add features or improve the service.


If the mothership starts sending out this newly structured data and they get confirmation from an RTV that it's software is up-to-date (and therefore compatible), then there could be serious data corruption issues. Analogous to saying, "Sure. Go ahead. My engine's been modified. Fill 'er up with diesel."


Under this speculative scenario, it may be more likely that the DNNA server actually reads the software version from the RTV before sending out the new style of data. In this case, their server might try to force a software update (even if DisableSoftwareDownload 1 set the registry to report that it's already up-to-date), not initiate the data transfer (so why is the schedule on my RTV not updating?), or display an error message. I'm actually a little surprised that they don't already read the actual software version in the unit (vs looking at the registry) to determine if an update is required.


Progress thru paranoia!*
While DNNA could do this...it is unlikely that this is happening currently....if they did, it would likely be a bigger software release than just a new 5.1 version for 5000 & 5500 owners.


Plus there are those people that want software updates, but for whatever reason...their box won't update. I had a box that had trouble taking updates....found out later when I was trying to upgrade it...that there were disk errors in the system partition (don't know about the rest...wasn't any point in trying to preserve the MPEG partition...)


Now hopefully, it'll update...I want the CC fix.


Strange that I didn't encounter disk errors on the other boxes, each came from a different online site. The one with problems...I picked up from Radio Shack. I'm sure how I bought it doesn't have anything to do with it though 


The Dreamer.


Though they did make changes in 5.0/5.1 that weren't compatible with older software versions on 5000's....but the 5.0 ReplayGuide could cope with 4.5 units.


----------



## adone36

Anyone who has a Bld 143 image has the Holy Grail for 55xx owners, at least for the forseeable future.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Anyone who has a Bld 143 image has the Holy Grail for 55xx owners, at least for the forseeable future.*
how? why? more data please.


----------



## Jeff D

Tony is onto something. This has been my thinking too.


As for what dreamer said about the version numbering I think this is pretty true too. I suspect that the replay software is doing what it always has. The difference is on the server side as such theres no need to change any replay software and not a larger change.



moyekj, j.m. gave you the info. The way I look at it is...


regedit cmd grouping tag value

where cmd, grouping, tag and value are alll seperated by a space. Grouping is to tell regedit where to place the tag in the files.



At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =)


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*how? why? more data please.*
Since we have reports on 143 and 144 here and on Planet Replay, it looks like the only difference in 144 is the 55xx whammy.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =)*
Now you have me confused... maybe I just haven't got enough sleep lately. I thought you had verified that enabling DisableSoftwareDownload would prevent a software update? Or is the problem that the setting is not sticky and is reset by the mothership (which doesn't make much sense as it makes the setting useless)?


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Now you have me confused... maybe I just haven't got enough sleep lately. I thought you had verified that enabling DisableSoftwareDownload would prevent a software update? Or is the problem that the setting is not sticky and is reset by the mothership (which doesn't make much sense as it makes the setting useless)?*
I think it is just a matter of 100% guaranteed to work vs "it's software"

and can change in the future.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*

At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =)*
I'm confused. I thought you had verified that setting DisableSoftwareDownload 1 does prevent the upgrade?


[EDIT - Oops, moyekj beat me to it.]


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*There was a NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for WiRNS 0.7, but I do not believe that kjac has updated it for 1.x yet.*
Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?*
For the DisableSoftwareDownload regedit value, yes. However, I'm still not clear on whether a) it actually works 100% and b) it will continue to do so. The WiRNS plugin completely blocks/hijacks the ReplayTV's actual request to check for new software, which should work even if DisableSoftwareDownload isn't effective.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The WiRNS plugin completely blocks/hijacks the ReplayTV's actual request to check for new software, which should work even if DisableSoftwareDownload isn't effective.*
However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.


The problem with staying with older software, even if it works now, is that the handshaking mechanism could be changed at any time on DNNA side once they assume all relevant units have received the software update to handle the new handshaking. It looks like this may be the start of a real need to completely take DNNA servers out of the picture for activation check, guide & clock updates, etc.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Since we have reports on 143 and 144 here and on Planet Replay, it looks like the only difference in 144 is the 55xx whammy.*
Are there confirmed reports of 143 on 5500's?


All I recall was somebody saying they had gotten 143 and wanted to know what was new in it.


The Dreamer


----------



## icecow

What if you hexedited the the 144 to 143 so the server would think you had the appropriate version


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by icecow_
*What if you hexedited the the 144 to 143 so the server would think you had the appropriate version*
I sure hope you are joking because there's none to no chance this would work.


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*I sure hope you are joking because there's none to no chance this would work.*
I'm guilty of not following the thread. It seemed simple enough


----------



## DarkScreen

Even if build 143 can be locked in and preserved, it would seem like a better solution to figure out how to get wirns to restore the CA and IVS functionality on the 144 build (and maybe all over again for future updates). (Easy for me to say, since I don't have a clue as to what's actually involved in doing this).


Clearly this is self-serving (since I was an early double victim of the 144 plague). Nonetheless, there are undoubtedly many others like me who would like to get CA and/or IVS back, but don't want to go through the efforts to archive their shows, yank out their HDDs, load on a 143 image, wirns off software updating, and then lose the 144 (and future) software enhancements. Not to mention that this procedure is still in the early test/verify stage and may have unforseen problems.


Since my original post two days ago, you guys have really soured me to the re-imaging approach and made me a wirns convert. I, and I'm sure hordes of others, really appreciate the efforts many of you are making to solve this latest puzzle.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.
*
Well, people that use WiRNS for guide data would already be doing this....so it isn't that much of a downside....plus wasn't that the 'official' purpose for WiRNS? 


I use WiRNS for guide data (for OTA HDTV) and only this.....


The Dreamer.


As for the hexedit comment: Well, IIRC the ReplayTV knows what version it is running and checks at every net connect what the latest available version is...and then downloads if it finds a newer version available.


Though I don't know why I'm getting so involved....DNNA has just increased the potential resale value of all my ReplayTVs  Though you'll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands....wonder if I should update my will ....


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?*
Ok.


I'm not a replay newbie, nor am I computer illiterate. I have had Wirns running for some time, but had no need for "get shell commands".


I just added a 5504 to my network. It still has 190 software.


So, if someone would be so kind as to tell me:


1 - how to use GetShellCommands and;

2 - how to put the regedit into getshellcommands as conspiracy notes here


I would be glad to be the guineapig.


John


----------



## moyekj

Bigjohns, all the info you need is available in j.m. signature. This sums things up very concisely:
http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/GetSh...nds/README.TXT 

Get the plugin here:
http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/GetSh...mands_v1.1.zip 

Add to "shellcmds" file the following in addition to the other 2 entries:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


NOTE: Someone would need to setup a network sniffer and really monitor all interactions with DNNA server to see if this DisableSoftwareDownload indeed has any effect. If you have already set this entry and haven't received the software yet you won't know for another couple of weeks if it's really working when the new software rollout has really had time to reach most units - we all know from prior experience it takes a few weeks for a new software update to rollout to all users.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.


The problem with staying with older software, even if it works now, is that the handshaking mechanism could be changed at any time on DNNA side once they assume all relevant units have received the software update to handle the new handshaking.*
DejaVu, we discussed this here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...45#post3798245 


Though at the time neither of us felt DNNA had the energy to make more

OS changes.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*

I would be glad to be the guineapig.


John*
Cool. Now if you we can get DarkScreen to be one as well we could get even faster feedback.


DarkScreen, if you have an old drive that you can put an old version of the Replay software on, you can then use GetShells to flip the DisableSoftwareDownload bit and then do a 'Check for new Software'. Since they've associated your S/N with the new software, your box should try and download the new one.


If it doesn't do it that's a good sign that flipping the bit alone worked.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*DejaVu, we discussed this here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...45#post3798245 *
Yes I recall that discussion and agree with you, that's why I think ultimately the only sure way of preventing unwanted changes is to take DNNA servers out of the picture completely - but then that borders on taboo territory (because of activation checks) and the whole El Gammal issue. I guess a few RTV engineers are keeping busy still  (though with wrong priorities from our perspective).


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

DarkScreen, if you have an old drive that you can put an old version of the Replay software on, you can then use GetShells to flip the DisableSoftwareDownload bit and then do a 'Check for new Software'. Since they've associated your S/N with the new software, your box should try and download the new one.
The experiment that Conspiracy suggests sounds like an interesting one to try. My largest available drive is a whopping 1GB, which, even if it was recognized by the RTV, may mask or cause other unrelated problems.


I'm still not convinced that DisableSoftwareDownload is the best tactic to take. Seems like a stopgap measure until the experts can figure out how to put CA and IVS back into 55xx machines running the new software.


I guess disabling the new software download makes more sense if it turns out that the gurus either aren't able to get CA and IVS to work on 144 builds or it takes them a long time to get there.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*I'm still not convinced that DisableSoftwareDownload is the best tactic to take. Seems like a stopgap measure until the experts can figure out how to put CA and IVS back into 55xx machines running the new software.


I guess disabling the new software download makes more sense if it turns out that the gurus either aren't able to get CA and IVS to work on 144 builds or it takes them a long time to get there.*
My gut feeling is that this one isn't going to have an easy solution. I think we will find something, but it is most likely going to be inconvenient in that it will require running WiRNS 24/7 and/or downgrading to a build prior to 144.


----------



## clambert11

The worst part is, I'm sure the RTV Engineers are reading this thread and getting a kick out of it.  It's a game of cat & mouse now!


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*The worst part is, I'm sure the RTV Engineers are reading this thread and getting a kick out of it.  It's a game of cat & mouse now!*
Who knows how many of them (if there even exist that many) lurk around here and see what we are doing with their machines and software


----------



## Conspiracy

I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product. I further imagine that DNNA would prefer the status quo. This has lawyers written all over it.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product. I further imagine that DNNA would prefer the status quo. This has lawyers written all over it.*
Or maybe it was just an attempt to patch the software to finally get updates to those folks with units that just fail to load the updates.


Ca doesn't bother me that much, if they go after dva streaming than I may dump my replay units. Of course as backup both units are hooked to dvd recorders with nice harddrives.

Not as convient but it works.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product.*
In the year since the 55xx was introduced and through various layoffs I'm

sure they are over it by now.


----------



## Bigjohns

Will having GetShellCommands runnign with the parameters discussed have a negative impact on 5040 machines on the same network as a 5504?


OH - and where do you set your IVS unit name again?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Will having GetShellCommands runnign with the parameters discussed have a negative impact on 5040 machines on the same network as a 5504?


OH - and where do you set your IVS unit name again?*
Unless you change the DNS on the 5040 machines AND force a net connect for them they won't even go through the Wirns proxy so no worries there. Obviously one impact if you were to point the 5040 machines at the Wirns server is they would also theoretically not accept software updates.


----------



## cosmicg

I've got a 5504 running version 530511410. I'm not sure what build that is (how do I tell?) but I do believe it has the CC fix, as it was pushed to me specifically for that purpose (I never agreed to any sort of NDA). I do have CA and IVS enabled, and am in no danger of my software being, um, downgraded as it is not currently hooked up to a network. If I can be of any help, let me know.


cosmicg


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by cosmicg_
*I've got a 5504 running version 530511410. I'm not sure what build that is (how do I tell?) but I do believe it has the CC fix, as it was pushed to me specifically for that purpose (I never agreed to any sort of NDA). I do have CA and IVS enabled, and am in no danger of my software being, um, downgraded as it is not currently hooked up to a network. If I can be of any help, let me know.


cosmicg*
Very interesting... if you could pull your drive and make a copy of the image on it there would be many grateful souls in this forum. It would be interesting to examine the contents of the image to find out how it's different than those with same software rev but CA/IVS disabled. But before that while you are watching a program press 411 Zones and confirm that the software version you have is indeed 530511410 and let us know the date accompanying that version.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Unless you change the DNS on the 5040 machines AND force a net connect for them they won't even go through the Wirns proxy so no worries there. Obviously one impact if you were to point the 5040 machines at the Wirns server is they would also theoretically not accept software updates.*
That's what I'm asking - because I've been using wirns for months now for my guide updates...


John


----------



## cosmicg

It is version 530511410 (not 530511440, which I believe is the newest one) and was built on March 2. This software was released to my Replay to fix CC problems, I don't know what the differences are between it and 530511440 (again, I never received or agreed to any sort of NDA). I'd be happy to pull the drive, but I want to make sure this would be useful, as it is not the newest version.


cosmicg


----------



## moyekj

Oh never mind then - if it's not the latest then it's likely you will be eventually be "upgraded" to the latest and lose CA/IVS. I'm too dislexic to distinguish between 530511410 and 530511440 without paying close attention to detail. Dropping all but the last 3 digits makes it much more obvious.


----------



## cosmicg

Yeah, I was just thinking that since it's a beta build, which has at least some of the cc fix, if somebody figures out how to prevent upgrades (the registry setting, if it worked for example), an image would allow people to use cc and keep their CA and IVS.


A quick question, 411 zones told me that my PCB serial number is missing, is that normal


cosmicg


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by cosmicg_
*A quick question, 411 zones told me that my PCB serial number is missing, is that normal


cosmicg*
Yes.


----------



## dfjkl

My wife tells me my lifetime activated 5504 that I picked up off of EBay just arrived today. When I get home from work and start working on hooking it up, anything interesting I should experiment with? Should I setup wirns right away and prevent net-connects? See what version of the OS it has first? I've got a guinea pig here now....just LMK.


----------



## Meteor

I found this quote in an old post from JTL when asked how to prevent software updates:


*Quote:*

For the bulk of the upgrade, the 'firmware hardware' that matters is also known as the 'hard drive'. Write protecting it would probably keep the upgrade from going through, yeah, but has some other side effects.


other mehods (didn't I just post this?) would be to set the SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload registry entry to '1', and live with the daily reboots; to disconnect the thing from the network; to firewall off production-{1,2,backup}.replaytv.net; to use a smart proxy that lies about the results of getsw2.pl requests..
*.*


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by cosmicg_
*It is version 530511410 (not 530511440, which I believe is the newest one) and was built on March 2. This software was released to my Replay to fix CC problems, I don't know what the differences are between it and 530511440 (again, I never received or agreed to any sort of NDA). I'd be happy to pull the drive, but I want to make sure this would be useful, as it is not the newest version.


cosmicg*
So the question is, does cc work on your machine? I'm pretty sure in talking to a Replayer in a chatroom who complained to DNNA about cc, that he had gotten 143 and cc worked all the time. I wasn't particularly interested because I never use it, but could finally recommend 5ks to people who needed it. If cc works for you I would definitely clone the drive and save the image before 144 is pushed to your machine.


----------



## bkushner

Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS? I know about loop back routers, etc but that isn't the problem, as you know if I use IVS to transfer betwee units the transferrable shows aren't sharable?


WIll there ever be a way to share from DVARCHIVE?


Brian


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS? I know about loop back routers, etc but that isn't the problem, as you know if I use IVS to transfer betwee units the transferrable shows aren't sharable?
*
You could swap the drives. 

Quote:

*

WIll there ever be a way to share from DVARCHIVE?
*
Nope. It is not the purpose the author has intended for it, and he has made it clear he will close any loopholes that allow DVA to share if they are introduced/found.


----------



## wg21

To qoute one of my favorite arthors.. Don't Panic..


Has anyone approached DNNA to see if this was the intent of the upgrade, or was it unitentional.


Quite frankly I'm not sure I agree with what you folks are doing it just makes a better case for those in our goverment who support draconian measures like the induce act.


I have 5500 boxes, I'm quite satisfied not having CA and IVS, if I wanted it I could easily find a 50xx on ebay.


What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.


Even the most draconian of companies let their customers know when they are going to put out an update to stop what they precieve of misuse of their equipment. After all most , replaytv included also have the terms of service agreement to back them up. If they can identify modified boxes they can simply refuse to provide service until the box allows an upgrade. This is what microsoft does with Live.

In fact there was a big controversy after Microsoft put out a patch to "fix" modified xboxes. This dnna seems to be just as controversal yet their seems to be a reluctance of folks to ask their replaytv contacts whats going on.

The interesting thing about the whole xbox issue, is you have a whole lot of folks who refuse to use Live and don't buy new ms games for fear of it "updating" their modified dashboards. Kind of hurts market share you would think. Go Playstation....


Another example is Gemstar ebook, which had the most dracononian policy ever, they did something similiar to keep people from putting their own content on the devices, people simply never updated and they went out of the market. In the end however, they made up for it in a surprisely noble way not only did they post one final update which openend the devices up but they freely posted the development tools.


With this Dnna situation, asking the question to your replaytv friends does not admit quilt. I really like to know whats happening on my network. If microsoft were to suddenly post a patch which locked any copied dvd's from running on xp I'd want to know about it weather I used copied dvd's or not. Thats why I keep my windows restore disks and backups available.


in conclusion there are some questions we need answered.


1) was this an intentional act or just simply an artifact of trying to fix something.

2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.


Note to all you lawyers out there, its true companies have the right to do things like this, but its also true that they can not do it covertly. Oh by the way latest news is that Hatch is reconsidering his Induce act. wonder why.


----------



## TheDreamer

Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.


Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.


The Dreamer.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.
*
Its probably an intentional act that fixes a 'bug'...where they advertised that CA and IVS is not available in the 5500's...and now they are making sure it stays that way.


And, IIRC it is in the service agreement that they reserve the right to add and remove features at any time.


The Dreamer.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by TheDreamer_
*Its probably an intentional act that fixes a 'bug'...where they advertised that CA and IVS is not available in the 5500's...and now they are making sure it stays that way.


And, IIRC it is in the service agreement that they reserve the right to add and remove features at any time.


The Dreamer.*
Again.. too much speculation ask, it may be in the TOS but you have a right to know what they are doing.


Do you think the engineers are morans, they are aware of the mods being made, I work for a large software company, do you not think we know people pirate our software. We watch the forums, sometimes we learn things we never knew about the software.


If its a bug they should at least notify everyone that the bug is now "fixed".

I'm beginning to think that this was not intentional. Not at a time when DNNA is not offering anything new and TIVO got the go ahead to launch a bunch of new services.


I'm no Lawer but dispite the Orin Hatch's of the country we do have some rights.


----------



## bkushner




> _Originally posted by dfjkl_
> 
> *You could swap the drives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if I take the drive from the 55 and put it in the 50 won't that essentialy get hammered on connection?*


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by TheDreamer_
*Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.


Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.


The Dreamer.*
This might be a stupid ? so forgive me but when streaming between units does it use any of your internet bandwith?


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by TheDreamer_
*Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.


Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.


The Dreamer.*
If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000 since I won't need guide or anything like that?


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000 since I won't need guide or anything like that?*
Streaming is so problematic I rarely do it, I usually put everything on a large networked drive. than I use either two light client.


d-link dsm320 media player or connected dvd player.


This also puts me in position for the day that I have to find something other than a replaytv to do the capturing.


To answer your other question, wether or not you use internet bandwidth depends how your router is configured.


If your going thru your local subnet no, if your routing through your ISP , it does.


----------



## richierich

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*Streaming is so problematic I rarely do it, I usually put everything on a large networked drive. than I use either two light client.*
Streaming is problematic? I have been using it for years and, once I moved from 10 to 100 (guru that I am, I can't remember what the rest of the specification is other than to say 100 base T) I have had no problems streaming at all. I stream at least five days a week (to watch shows in my bedroom). How have you found streaming to be problematic?


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*To answer your other question, wether or not you use internet bandwidth depends how your router is configured.*
Streaming never goes out over the Internet, so it uses no Internet bandwidth. Streaming is entirely contained on the local LAN.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000*
Any ReplayTV, other than 20XX, 30XX/ShowStopper and 40XX needs to be activated in order to use it for anything.


----------



## cephraim

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*Any ReplayTV, other than 20XX, 30XX/ShowStopper and 40XX needs to be activated in order to use it for anything.*
So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?

Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?

Does it support CA?


Thanks,

Eph


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by cephraim_
*So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?

Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?
*
A 40xx doesn't need activation, because they were sold as lifetime units.


network scheduling is only a feature in the software on 5xxx's...plus you can't stream between a 4xxx and a 5xxx.


The Dreamer


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by cephraim_
*So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?

Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?

Does it support CA?


Thanks,

Eph*
4k units were sold with lifetime.


They're not compatible with 5k units though.


----------



## bkushner

I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation? I'd hate to lose $299


----------



## cephraim

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*4k units were sold with lifetime.


They're not compatible with 5k units though.*
What about 45xx units?


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation?*
Acitvation is tied to the motherboard. Re-imaging may require a net connect to re-enable activation.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by cephraim_
*What about 45xx units?*
40XX/45XX are virtually identical hardware with the 45XX requiring activation (40XX had activation included). 40XX/45XX can stream but not to or from 50XX/55XX. 50XX/55XX are virtually identical hardware, with the 55XX line not containing CA or IVS. Both the 50XX and 55XX line require activation. (Although some 50XX ReplayTVs were sold with lifetime activation and DNNA has sold some 55XX as specials with lifetime activation.) 50XX/55XX can stream, but not to or from 40XX/45XX.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation? I'd hate to lose $299*
If you image the drive using image from a different unit, the activation

usually become invalid until the next "net connect", when it adjusts itself

to the appropriate activation.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by richierich_
*Streaming is problematic? I have been using it for years and, once I moved from 10 to 100 (guru that I am, I can't remember what the rest of the specification is other than to say 100 base T) I have had no problems streaming at all. I stream at least five days a week (to watch shows in my bedroom). How have you found streaming to be problematic?*
I guess your lucky, because for me sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.


My other devices on the network don't seem to exhibit this behavoir.


Both replaytv units are 100 ethernet, I always record in medium or high, never bother with standard resolution.


Whats the big deal with CA, true it might be usefull but I don't think I would go to such extremes to get it. Although I rarely watch a program imeadiately after I record it, I have to many important things to do than watch tv.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*Do you think the engineers are morans, they are aware of the mods being made, I work for a large software company, do you not think we know people pirate our software. We watch the forums, sometimes we learn things we never knew about the software.


If its a bug they should at least notify everyone that the bug is now "fixed".

I'm beginning to think that this was not intentional. Not at a time when DNNA is not offering anything new and TIVO got the go ahead to launch a bunch of new services.*
No I don't think the Engineers are morons....I'm an Engineer (got the PE to prove it). But, if the people at the top decide that it needs to be done...it'll get done....


We have this product, its runs on Unix, VMS and Windows....I tolded to port it to Linux (though at the time I wasn't in support of it, actually having to contribute bug fixes to the OS....and actually neither were the company execs...but my manager wanted it.)


Anyways...the Unix and VMS versions have license keys that are tied to the hardware. Whoever did the Windows port, opted not to implement this aspect (along with various other things). For the Linux port, everything that it does on Unix it does Linux....plus some extras...so the hardware check in the licensing code works as it should.


Suddenly users are screaming...they moved from Windows to Linux...and suddenly they are having problems because the keys are tied to the machine. No more buy for one machine and then freely change machines whenever they want to. I'm not sure how licensing works, its not my area....but its probably something to do with hardware class...like Oracle does.


So, there was some discussion about fixing this 'bug'....in the Windows version. At least, the bug reports to me about license keys work in the Linux version stopped coming in. Waiting for the flow of bug reports when keys don't work to start again (there's usually a flood after any major release...which we just did one recently)


Meanwhile, (still completely wild speculation) I think DNNA won't necessarily say that they fixed the CA/IVS 'bug' in 5500's...because this would require them to admit that there was a 'bug' in the first place for something they said they took out of the 5500's to avoid getting sued.


Though there will probably be an announcement at some point...perhaps a pause ad like the last time.... _Which means it would be focused on whatever positive changes have been made...._


The Dreamer.


----------



## Bigjohns

Back to the topic at hand....


I tried GetShellCommands and I must have done something wrong?


Here is the WIRNS output after I do a manual connect from my new 5504 with version 190 software:
Code:


Code:


[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.
[PROXY] URI: ( [URL='http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getshellcmds.pl?version']http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-b...mds.pl?version[/URL] 
=530510190&serial=RTV5504J3MA0239549&cstate=(PauseAds('Delay'N'1''Enabled'N'1'))
)
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from file.
[2004-08-20 10:41:07] Hijacking headend request, because we serve it locally.
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 61 bytes
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.
[PROXY] URI: ( [URL='http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getshellcmds.pl?version']http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-b...mds.pl?version[/URL] 
=530510190&serial=RTV5504J3MA0239549&cstate=(PauseAds('Delay'N'1''Enabled'N'1'))
)
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from file.
[2004-08-20 10:45:38] Hijacking headend request, because we serve it locally.
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV...


Arrgh?


John


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV...*
Do you have the text file shellcmds in the WiRNS.exe directory with the appropriate 2 lines of text in it?


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by TheDreamer_
*So, there was some discussion about fixing this 'bug'....in the Windows version. At least, the bug reports to me about license keys work in the Linux version stopped coming in. Waiting for the flow of bug reports when keys don't work to start again (there's usually a flood after any major release...which we just did one recently)



The Dreamer.*
We do the same thing, we also put out a release document. It helps the qa folks focus on whats being fixed and gives our users some feedback on what was fixed.


Just wild speculation, but I think DNNa may of been trying to do two things, one being the problem some replaytv's have with getting updates, the other one being preparing to do software updates for devices other than the crop of current replays. They've already announced the new server that will use the replay guide, so I'm presuming it will require some kind of autoupdate.


If this is intentional the timing is really bad, with Tivo getting the green light to provide something like IVS.

This is actually a pretty reasonable change if you consider it in the context of getting ready to add new equipment which may have different os structure. checking a hardware SN rather than a registry entry.


However if DNNA is doing such hardhanded stuff, I've already started scooping out the ebay prices for the pioneer tivo/dvd-recorder combos, in my mind this is the only Tivo model worth considering.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS?*
You can copy the OS and mpg partitions to new drive using rtvpatch

then place the copied drive in 50xx. The 50xx drive will correct the

activation upon new net connect and also download the latest OS,

which won't make a difference since it is 50xx.


----------



## gsulliva

This thread is getting mixed with other topics. I've used WiRNS to get CA on my 5504 with 530510190 and don't want the 530511440 upgrade.


Do you think we should started a dedicated thread to the topic?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV...
*
Bigjohns, you need the following 3 lines in shellcmds file:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1

regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1


----------



## RChobby

I unplugged the network cable on my modded 5504 until the dust settles and I have some time to play with WiRNS. So far in this thread 2 users have reported the problem. Please report in if you have the new software and have lost CA and IVS. I guess I should pull the drive and image it as a backup. Does WiRNS and getshellcommands modify anything other than software on the hard disk?


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Bigjohns, you need the following 3 lines in shellcmds file:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1

regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1*
DOH. See, I did... but NOTEPAD in it's infinite wisdom added the .txt...


I just fixed it, and all is well! (for now at least!).


John


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*We do the same thing, we also put out a release document. It helps the qa folks focus on whats being fixed and gives our users some feedback on what was fixed.
*
I'm sure we provide a document to users that identifies what bug numbers have been fixed....but how much detail is given, I don't know. Though the customer problems/solutions database is available online for users to look through.


I keep getting reminded when I'm closing out bugs...that the information is available online to users...so it has to be clean and verbose.


Though I don't know what our QA people do....we do have a QA Notes section in the database...but I don't think they pay attention to it. I noticed they never copied the input files needed to test one of the major changes I put in....and apparently they ignore that the tests are failing because the input files are missing (could be partly because it doesn't score it as a failure in the overall results for the section). 

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*Just wild speculation, but I think DNNa may of been trying to do two things, one being the problem some replaytv's have with getting updates, the other one being preparing to do software updates for devices other than the crop of current replays. They've already announced the new server that will use the replay guide, so I'm presuming it will require some kind of autoupdate.
*
I wasn't aware of a new server....AFAIK it was a new client (the Denon Media Server) was going to use the same server that we use.

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*If this is intentional the timing is really bad, with Tivo getting the green light to provide something like IVS.
*
But, what Tivo has is nothing like our IVS....being far more restrictive and having FCC approval. I suspect that if DNNA were to submit how IVS is currently done to the FCC for approval, it would get rejected.

_And, I hope that they don't try to make the current IVS into an approved Tivo-like system....._


The Dreamer.


----------



## clambert11

To be mad @ RTV for fixing any holes and not disclosing it seems somewhat unfair IMHO. Yeah, I'm bummed I may lose both CA & IVS. They are both features I use regularly with my 5504's. However, for reasons of their own, they decided to *try* and do something about it (I'm not giving up hope yet). I'm personally unclear as to why they would worry about it, but I'm sure they have a reason that suits them.


Do I feel they need to tell me what they are doing to the software? Not really. It's just my opinion of course. I didn't call them up and tell them I took advantage of a hole in their software to enable features I wasn't supposed 2 have. The way I see it, if you didn't enable those features in the first place, you would have been none the wiser after the update. I guess I'm playing devil's advocate for the bad guys, I dunno.


I'm hopeful that j.m. & co. will come up with something in the future that will re-enable these features should I happen to lose them (even if they're not right now). If not, oh well. Sh!t happens sometimes.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*To be mad @ RTV for fixing any holes and not disclosing it seems*
Sorry if your pushing software to a device on my network I want to know what it is. be it to my cable box , my tv , my computer etc.


I don't want to schedule something, come home to a blank screen because the update you pushed to my box last night added macrovision copy protection.


Sorry, I am a software engineer, and that doesn't fly. You have a right to do it under your tos, thats ok, but you do something covertly like that and don't explain why even after the fact and I will go elsewhere (windows mce, tivo etc)


If you believe otherwise than you are part of the problem not the solution!!


----------



## dfjkl




> _Originally posted by bkushner_
> 
> *
> Quote:
> 
> Originally posted by dfjkl
> You could swap the drives.
> 
> 
> But if I take the drive from the 55 and put it in the 50 won't that essentialy get hammered on connection?
> My understanding is that the features will be re-enabled for the 5000 after a net connect. Last I knew the software between the two boxes was still the same.*


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*pushing software to a device on my network I want to know what it is. be it to my cable box....*
The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.


----------



## cephraim

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*So far in this thread 2 users have reported the problem. Please report in if you have the new software and have lost CA and IVS.*
I have the new software and lost CA and IVS.


----------



## Conspiracy

Is there anyone out that has lost CA and IVS due to the new software and willing and able (someone with a large enough spare drive) to do some testing?


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.*
1) cable boxes , satelite boxes do not connect to my network.

2) changes in functionality or channel lineup are communicated .

3) Other changes are usually to parameters.



OH.. this is pointless , I don't even use CA or IVS.


----------



## Jeff D

I know sfhub touched on this, but it got me thinking.... I highly doubt this but... could DNNA be pushing TWO different updates to 5k and 5.5k boxes? This would be a first, but maybe there is actually a difference in the software that would keep these features from ever existing. Like I said before... odds are slim to none that they did this, but... it would be the safest way to be sure those features NEVER exist in the 5.5k box.


Anyone got a 5k 144 and a 5.5k 144? Or better yet etheral and two unupdated boxes? We could tell that way.


Personally I have 3 sure ways and one suspected technique to prevent the updates.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*

Personally I have 3 sure ways and one suspected technique to prevent the updates.*
I would hope these sure ways you refer to are not to unplug the ethernet connection on 3 of your units?


----------



## gsulliva

Well I was just playing with WiRNS to try to protect my unit, get some errors about object expections or Headers, etc. Not sure if it was an issue so I ran it again.


This is where it got interesting, at the end it said there was a new software update and it needed to restart my ReplayTV or select "exit" to keep using the replayTv. I clicked Exit and it seems to be working, not sure in WiRNS will stop the update now.


----------



## moyekj

gsulliva, that means the new software is already downloaded to your RTV, so the software update prevention is probably too late, unless the flag also prevents already downloaded software from installing itself which is unlikely.


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.*


It use to be that many of the sat boxes would query the user as to if they wanted the update. I believe now it's you'll get them all unless you hardware hacker your box.


Pushes aren't new been around for a long time. The trick is figuring out how to circumvent them if you want. And it usually involves hardware changes. There would be no hardware change for the replayTV, but it's still not an easy job for joe-six-pack.


----------



## gsulliva

Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now and me losing it, I'll be puttin the ReplayTV on eBay and going with peer pressure to Tivo. Will be interesting to see how many 5504 show up on eBay next week, might be a fire sale.


Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*gsulliva, that means the new software is already downloaded to your RTV, so the software update prevention is probably too late, unless the flag also prevents already downloaded software from installing itself which is unlikely.*


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Well I was just playing with WiRNS to try to protect my unit, get some errors about object expections or Headers, etc. Not sure if it was an issue so I ran it again.


This is where it got interesting, at the end it said there was a new software update and it needed to restart my ReplayTV or select "exit" to keep using the replayTv. I clicked Exit and it seems to be working, not sure in WiRNS will stop the update now.*
I assume the update came across during the WiRNS forced net connect? If so, that method is out.


----------



## gsulliva

Yes

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*I assume the update came across during the WiRNS forced net connect? If so, that method is out.*


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_

*What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.*
*
They merely "fixed" a loophole in a feature de-activation that they made a LEGAL agreement to disable in lieu of further lawsuits. This may seem to be a crime to you but then you haven't been sued (as members here have) by companies with very deep pockets.

Quote:

With this Dnna situation, asking the question to your replaytv friends does not admit quilt. I really like to know whats happening on my network. If microsoft were to suddenly post a patch which locked any copied dvd's from running on xp I'd want to know about it weather I used copied dvd's or not.
You must have cried when WMP 9 came out with all the DRM.

Quote:

1) was this an intentional act or just simply an artifact of trying to fix something.

2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.
What is so hard to understand? They knew people were circumventing the restrictions and they fixed it. You always bring up Tivo in your posts. I find this laughable considering the "problems" you have with DNNA with a machine that has a very open architecture (a real boon to its users) vs Tivo which is a very closed system. Tivo cannot do what Replay does even with the vaporware. And with the massive loses, who knows if the vaporware will ever come to pass.*


----------



## dfjkl

What is so hard to understand is why people are so anxious to be apathetic. The "everyone else knows better than me attitude" is b.s. The effect of a few people re-enabling ca/ivs is miniscule.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*They merely "fixed" a loophole in a feature de-activation that they made a LEGAL agreement to disable in lieu of further lawsuits.*
While I do believe in my gut, there was some form of consultation to

remove features in exchange for dropping actions, I have never seen

anything publicly discussed which would indicate there was a LEGAL

agreement to do so, certainly not anything public.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now*
You ought to check the facts. TiVo is not getting IVS. There is a crippled version of video sharing, but I would not call it IVS.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*I know sfhub touched on this, but it got me thinking.... I highly doubt this but... could DNNA be pushing TWO different updates to 5k and 5.5k boxes? This would be a first, but maybe there is actually a difference in the software that would keep these features from ever existing. Like I said before... odds are slim to none that they did this, but... it would be the safest way to be sure those features NEVER exist in the 5.5k box.
*
I don't think I've ever suggested that DNNA would branch the OS build

to accomplish something which can be accomplished with a few "IF-THEN"

statements.


Though, I have suggested if they really wanted to, there are ways they

can get convince you to upgrade if you are of the mind to try to block the

upgrade. I have no idea if they would be willing to go to these lengths

(or whether they've done so already)


----------



## leesweet

As sfhub says, no rational software company (and I work for one, I think...  ) would create two builds when a couple of short branches in one build would do the work. And I have a 5000 box with 144 and CA is fine. This definitely seems to be a 'make 5500s do what were supposed to do' issue.


----------



## dfjkl

I just took a look at the images links from the replay faq. How can these be gotten down to that small of a size. I took an image from my 5040 before I upgraded the drive, and the image is leaving a 500meg footprint on my DVA box. What do I need to do, what options do I choose, etc. in rtvpatch to get the image so small.


Thanks!


----------



## jlv

Quote:

2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.
Be careful who you trust. It was TiVo, of course, that instructed all units in England to record a paid-advertisement.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*

If you believe otherwise than you are part of the problem not the solution!!*
If you're looking for an argument, you're not going to find it in this thread. The last thing that needs to happen is clogging this lengthy thread up with crap.


-- Craig


----------



## RChobby

So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect?


----------



## l8er

Oy.


----------



## icecow

 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oy&r=f


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*You have a right to do it under your tos, thats ok,*
So what part of this (from the manual, under "Software License Agreement") don't you understand?:
Quote:

*You acknowledge and agree that DNNA may periodically update, modify

or enhance the Software remotely through the RTVS*


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect?*
There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that _may_ prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.


Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1



It was taken from Post #154 of this ongoing novel.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.


Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1



It was taken from Post #154 of this ongoing novel. *
The problem, which RChobby is alluding to, is that if your units' SN is already in the group that can download the new software then the above won't help. You see, upon net connecting via WiRNS to set the above regedit value, the RTV will also download the new software because the regedit value won't take effect until at least the conclusion of the net connect (and perhaps only after a reboot). The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.


Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1



It was taken from Post #154 of this ongoing novel. *
Yeah but someone earlier today got the updated software pushed to his replaytv during the WiRNS netconnect procedure. Is there a work-around to prevent that?


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The problem, which RChobby is alluding to, is that if your units' SN is already in the group that can download the new software then the above won't help. You see, upon net connecting via WiRNS to set the above regedit value, the RTV will also download the new software because the regedit value won't take effect until at least the conclusion of the net connect (and perhaps only after a reboot). The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.*
Are these bits we are flipping (with WiRNS) in non-volatile RAM on the motherboard, or just in the O.S.?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect?*
Unfortunately the shellcmds actions are effected AFTER a new software check during the net connect, so you may not prevent the software update from occuring while setting up Wirns to do exactly that. An easy change to Wirns 1.x could be made (and I believe was one of the plugins in the 0.7x release) to "fake" that portion of the transaction to prevent software download from happening. Of course this all may be a mute point as AFAIK we have no confirmation the now infamous registry setting actually has any effect on preventing a download in the first place. In any case, during the net connect targeted at Wirns with the shellcmds, watch the RTV messages closely, and if a new software download is initiated then just pull the plug on the ethernet right away and cancel the net connect then try again in a few minutes. If it's already too late and you have the new software you'll have to re-image the drive and try again.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.


Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1



It was taken from Post #154 of this ongoing novel. *
I've got this running on my computer (wirns with shell commands) and my 5504 (just put on the network last night, but it's used so it probably is already in the database....)


But I've done 4 force net connects and it still shows 190 software.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*Are these bits we are flipping (with WiRNS) in non-volatile RAM on the motherboard, or just in the O.S.?*
They are software registry settings in files (on hard drive).


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*I've got this running on my computer (wirns with shell commands) and my 5504 (just put on the network last night, but it's used so it probably is already in the database....)


But I've done 4 force net connects and it still shows 190 software.*
Big J you lucked out. I'm going to clone my h.d. before I do this, just to be on the safe side. Maybe I'll put in a larger disk at the same time and pack away the original for safe keeping.


----------



## gsulliva

Is there a way to confirm the settings on the unit? I know CA and ISV are easy but what about:


regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


Thanks


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.*
I started looking into this yesterday but I can't find any documentation on the plugin interface.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Is there a way to confirm the settings on the unit? I know CA and ISV are easy but what about*:


regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1


Thanks
You can use the pvtio shell (through serial connection between a PC and the RTV) to query (and set) registry settings - see Twiki site for details. The shell itself can be enabled via Wirns shellcmds commands, but once the shell is enabled you then need to make a custom serial cable to connect PC to RTV serial port in order to access it.

Perhaps an easier way, if you have photo partition is to use the following shellcmds command (as j.m. detailed in another thread):

cp /name/system/user/Registry/ /name/storage/Photo/


The other way to confirm the setting is to make an image of the hard drive. Then it's just a question of looking for the right file with the setting. Either way, it's more effort than it's worth just to confirm a single registry setting that may not have any value.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*I started looking into this yesterday but I can't find any documentation on the plugin interface.*
No need. It's done. It should prevent updates, but it is hard to test.  Get it here . Source code is included (required only minor changes from the old version for 0.7). This version should work with both WiRNS 0.7 and 1.x.


I recommend using this in conjunction with the regedit value and GetShellCommands as discussed above. Please post any successes or failures here.


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*No need. It's done. It should prevent updates, but it is hard to test.  Get it here . Source code is included (required only minor changes from the old version for 0.7). This version should work with both WiRNS 0.7 and 1.x.


I recommend using this in conjunction with the regedit value and GetShellCommands as discussed above. Please post any successes or failures here.*
Thanks j.m.! This needs to be in the same folder as WiRNS, I assume.


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*Thanks j.m.! This needs to be in the same folder as WiRNS, I assume.*
plug-in directory


----------



## el borak

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now and me losing it, I'll be puttin the ReplayTV on eBay and going with peer pressure to Tivo. Will be interesting to see how many 5504 show up on eBay next week, might be a fire sale.*
I'm rather surprised how many people have 55xx's when 50xx availability has been virtually uninterrupted (unless you are paranoid about refurbs). You can get 5040's for $80 any day of the week, why buy a lesser box for more money?


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by el borak_
*I'm rather surprised how many people have 55xx's when 50xx availability has been virtually uninterrupted (unless you are paranoid about refurbs). You can get 5040's for $80 any day of the week, why buy a lesser box for more money?*
Good question indeed...I wonder how quickly those $79.99 refurbs will fly out the warehouse door now?


----------



## gsulliva

Need an expert to comment.


My unit say 530510190, so I did the WiRNS 0.7a run with the new command. Did my force connect, etc got some errors in the DOS window. P.S. I've used WiRNS before.


Ran again, this time it said new software was install and it needs to reboot. Press "Select" to continue or "exit" to not reboot. Pressed "EXIT"


Check my unit still says 530510190, so I unplugged it, power it down and back in to let it go through its startup.


STILL 530510190


Installed WiRNS 1.1.2b, added the plug-ins including the new NO SOFTWARE and did a force connect.


Once again it wants to reboot to apply new software but again I say to "EXIT". Still says 530510190.


QUESTION:

Wouldn't it apply the software after I unplugged it and plugged it back in?

If so did I successfully stop the new patch?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by mhargr03_
*Good question indeed...I wonder how quickly those $79.99 refurbs will fly out the warehouse door now?*
During last sweepstakes you could get 5504 refurb for $350 (including activation) and free shipping, which makes it $50 without activation or about $30 cheaper than a 5040 refurb. Not saying it was necessarily a better deal than getting a 5040, just that it was cheaper if you go lifetime. That, the supposed quieter fan and the easy re-enabling of CA/IVS is what convinced me to go for it at the time.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*QUESTION:

Wouldn't it apply the software after I unplugged it and plugged it back in?

If so did I successfully stop the new patch?*
The new software is already loaded on your machine so the Wirns trick was applied too late in your case. If you happen to be watching while it wants to reboot and apply new software you can stop it as you have, but eventually on next maintanence reboot it will apply the software itself. You would have to re-image the drive and apply the Wirns solution again before the software is downloaded at this point AFAIK. So you may as well let the new software install itself and then you can see if it does disable CA/IVS and go from there. My SPECULATION is that the registry setting should block new software downloads but won't prevent installation of software that was already downloaded.


----------



## gsulliva

Actually I decided to try one more force connect. This time it said I must reboot for new software (before anything else). So I gave in to the greater powers at ReplayTV.


Guess what, still 530510190



Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*The new software is already loaded on your machine so the Wirns trick was applied too late in your case. If you happen to be watching while it wants to reboot and apply new software you can stop it as you have, but eventually on next maintanence reboot it will apply the software itself. You would have to re-image the drive and apply the Wirns solution again before the software is downloaded at this point AFAIK. So you may as well let the new software install itself and then you can see if it does disable CA/IVS and go from there. My SPECULATION is that the registry setting should block new software downloads but won't prevent installation of software that was already downloaded.*


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Actually I decided to try one more force connect. This time it said I must reboot for new software (before anything else). So I gave in to the greater powers at ReplayTV.


Guess what, still 530510190*
Interesting... so maybe the registry setting does prevent new installations as well as new software downloads - I can live with that.


----------



## hod

I used the shellcmds and the plugin and it appears to prevent an upgrade. I did get some exceptions, but they may have to do with my config.


----------



## gsulliva

One more update ... each time my unit calls the mothership it reboots to apply the software which now does nothing.


I have an old 40 gig replay drive with 530510190 on it. Can I simple apply the system partition (using RTV PATCH) onto the new big drive without deleting my shows? What will be lost (scheduled recordings, etc)?


thanks


----------



## RChobby

I used WiRNS 0.7 with the no software update plugin and the no software update shell command on my 5504. I'm not sure if new software came across or not. At the end of the net connect it says the replay must restart in order to use new software, but the software build stays at 530510190. I guess this is no big deal? I don't know if it will reboot every night when it calls home, but I'll report back. Can an image from a 5040 with 530510190 be used in a 5504?


----------



## moyekj

Below is a link to the full thread someone referred to in this thread a couple of pages ago. This is JTL (WAY BACK) talking about ways to prevent a software update. Notice the comment about nightly reboots (for every net connect) if the registry setting method is used. So it looks like once your RTV is targeted to receive the new software but you have the registry setting to prevent an update, the RTV will reboot as if it got new software but won't actually install it (since there's nothing to install). So looks this workaround has a pretty bad side-effect that will eventually affect anyone trying to use this method to prevent software updates.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...ight=getsw2.pl


----------



## sfhub

Maybe that is actually a positive side effect. 


It bypasses 2 problems, the DHCP IP problem and the won't reboot after

7 days problem (if the maintenance reboot doesn't occur after 7 days,

your unit stops net connecting)


----------



## RChobby

I don't know if my replay was targeted or not for the update. When I first used WiRNS with the getshellcommand plugin (months ago) I recall it needed a reboot after net connect. I'll do a 411 zones inquiry every day for a while and see what it does.


----------



## jlv

Thanks, moyekj. That posting helped solve it for me.


----------



## Jeff D

I too got the message about installing new software. I was disappointed but, I reluctantly went through the process. I too was happy to see the result was that the software didn't bump to 144. Not sure why that happened, but it did. I was screwing around with a bunch of stuff in the shell, I figured I had done something that triggered the new software install message.


In case anyone cares.... for future reference, LiveVCR Quaility setting doesn't do anything.


----------



## RChobby

I need to ask this again........



Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?



I assume so, but would like some confirmation before I do it.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jlv

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*In case anyone cares.... for future reference, LiveVCR Quaility setting doesn't do anything.*
How did you test that? Mine is "HIGH", the default I support, and I was thinking of changing it to "LOW" (aka standard), on the assumpton that it would increase my pause time.


(I use standard for all my recordings, as they are all broadcast TV anyway).


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?
*
Oy.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*I need to ask this again........



Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?



I assume so, but would like some confirmation before I do it.

Thanks in advance!*
Of course. This was the software version we have been using on 55xx for a while now until this latest relase.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Of course. This was the software version we have been using on 55xx for a while now until this latest relase.*
Won't imaging the 55 with the 50 still work with the new software release?


Brian


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Won't imaging the 55 with the 50 still work with the new software release?


Brian*
Again, the software for the 50xx and 55xx is exactly the same. Only a few of the default configuration settings differ--i.e. those for CA and IVS. In the past, one could change these settings on a 55xx in order to enable CA and IVS (either via imaging with a 50xx image that has the settings enabled or using WiRNS + GSC to flip them). It appears that with build 144 the software ignores those settings when it is running on a 55xx unit and simply always disables CA and IVS there (the 50xx remains unaffected, however).


So, yes, imaging a 55xx with 50xx software will still work with build 144, as it is the same software. However, unlike with previous software builds, this will NOT enable CA and IVS on a 55xx because b144 now seemingly detects it is running on a 55xx, ignores the CA and IVS settings, and just always disables the features.


----------



## waynesbrojohn

Thank goodness for DVArchive and it's ability to mimic the delete show function on my newly "downgraded" REPLAY unit. If it weren't for this program, I don;t know how anyone would be able to recover the disk space that was used by any "received" programs at the time of the update. I know that my unit showed less available hours... now that DVArchive saved the day, I have the full disk available again.


Which raises another question... How many of the people who got updated were also Poopli users? I was one... I had downloaded the entire mini series called The Grid... and after the update they stayed on the rtv disk. DVArchive showed them in the received category, but of course with the update... the "Received" category was gone, and I suppose any ability to have deleted the shows.. the onlly evidence as I say, was the fact that I had fewer hours available to record than what showed if you added up the recorded programs. Thank you Gerry!


I suspect that if Poopli wasn't so popular and effective, the need to make the update happen would have been WAY DOWN on the list of activites for the REPLAY owners.... I can live without the IVS feature just fine... I did however, love the WIRns CA feature. Again, what another fabulous program that underscores the functionality and viability of the REPALY units.


Now... I have a Sonic Blue unit that was unaffected entirely... and ... I have a 5504 that I took ofline for a few weeks to do some video editting with.... it has not been affected by an updgrade yet, since it is still not connected to the Ethernet Network. Any suggestions as to how I should proceed from the experts? I know if I plug it in it will get "the enhancement". Perhaps my brother (who owns more than my measly 3 units) might have a similar situation, since he seems to have one in his van at most times.


Regards,

John


----------



## dfjkl

OK...today I got my 5504 that I had picked up off of EBay. Last night I got all the wirns stuff setup, hoping to force my replay to connect through it. Only to find even though it asks me for network settings in the setup (after I factory reset it), it still used my dhcp settings to connect to the mothership. When I got it all up and running, I took a look at the software revision. It is running *530511400*. At a glance, I was thinking I was screwed. Until I pulled up this thread again and saw the version that is killing everyone is a little "newer." This version of the software is built on "Dec. 9 2003."


As soon as I could, I made sure the box went through wirns, but it gave me an error on net connect (forget now). Changed primary DNS to normal, connected again, it did some housekeeping (maybe checking activation, etc) with replay, and was happy. Changed settings back to wirns, it updated it's guide, everything through wirns, and I also had the 3 shellcmds listed earlier set to be added to the replay (deny software updated, IVS enable, and CA enable). I'm happy to say I have a 5504 with CA and IVS now, functioning through wirns, and hopefully free from update until someone figures out what the heck is going on.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*OK...today I got my 5504 that I had picked up off of EBay. Last night I got all the wirns stuff setup, hoping to force my replay to connect through it. Only to find even though it asks me for network settings in the setup (after I factory reset it), it still used my dhcp settings to connect to the mothership. When I got it all up and running, I took a look at the software revision. It is running 530511400. At a glance, I was thinking I was screwed. Until I pulled up this thread again and saw the version that is killing everyone is a little "newer." This version of the software is built on "Dec. 9 2003."*
Yeah, one of my machines has that build in it also. It's a refurb I got as a warranty replacement several months back.


The other 5504 I bought @ the same time still has version 190 on it.


You shouldn't have any problems with the version in your new box.


----------



## repnewbie

DNNA, WHY????????? Yes we were not meant to have those two features but were we really doing you any harm?? You stopped selling units with those capabilities long time ago so we were not "stealing your profits" by buying a lower speced model. Why then have you chosen this route? So whats next DNNA? Are you going after the no updates shell command next?


----------



## adone36

Because Sonic Blue spent a fortune being sued over those features and reached an agreement to remove them. While DNNA is not bound by that, they probably don't want the POSSIBILITY of a hassle for an extinct piece of hardware. That's why.


----------



## cable0

I still have the 190 version software on my 5504. I keep checking and no update yet, even tried to force a software install by the 234 zones code.


I stream from the 5504 to the 5040, so if I lose the features no big deal as I will not be impacted.


I still would be interseted in a future fix if one is found, just in case I have to watch TV in the spare room


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Because Sonic Blue spent a fortune being sued over those features and reached an agreement to remove them. While DNNA is not bound by that, they probably don't want the POSSIBILITY of a hassle for an extinct piece of hardware. That's why.*
I would say the possibility is remote. Esp. since they still sell the 5040.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*Esp. since they still sell the 5040.*
But they haven't manufactured 50XXs since the introduction of the 55XX.


----------



## leesweet

A reminder that "19" is the same as "140". Lyndon has said that the repair depot has a version called 140 but it's essentially the same as 19 from last September. No relation to 144.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*DNNA, WHY????????? Yes we were not meant to have those two features but were we really doing you any harm?? You stopped selling units with those capabilities long time ago so we were not "stealing your profits" by buying a lower speced model. Why then have you chosen this route? So whats next DNNA? Are you going after the no updates shell command next?*
Business is business.. But if they actually have devlopers actively working on the replaytv platform they would be better to concentrate on new features. Because there ARE other alternatives.


I don't use ca or IVS, but having been reading this thread about the autoupdates and all make me start thinging some more about alternatives just in case ...


I connected my new XP MCE 2004 notebook to my tv for the first time and have been doing side by side comparisons with the replaytv.

and all I can say is If Tivo and Replaytv aren't careful microsoft is going to come in with a preemptive strike.


Wake on schedule means the notebook can stay asleep until the scheduled record time.


Cimenanow for instance is a really cool feature neither tivo or replaytv has.

The search capabilties are far and above either, the cost is prohitbitive I wouldn't be surprised to see that come down once MS releases its media extenders.


Full side by side review comming on my website.


----------



## repnewbie

Hmmmm. I have one of those XP MCE notebooks too. Never thought about connecting it because my ReplayTV unit was serving me well. Time to hook it up and see what its all about!


----------



## DarkScreen

Been living without CA for almost a week now. It sucks! 


Actually thought about going back to my bank of CA VCRs...no, too many other shortcomings.


Or selling my 5504's and buying 5040's....no, too hard to justify the hassle and cost...plus, who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release...and how long will it be before there's a better solution than ReplayTVs (like a PC with tuner cards)...especially when I decide to upgrade to HDTV....


So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.


Good luck


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release...*
In my opinion this is close to impossible. These units were sold with this as their major feature, and continue to be sold as such on www.replaytvoutlet.com. If there was any chance DNNA was worried to such an extent that they would take the gigantic step of disabling CA on 5040s they would not still be selling them with those features advertised.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Been living without CA for almost a week now. It sucks! 


Actually thought about going back to my bank of CA VCRs...no, too many other shortcomings.


Or selling my 5504's and buying 5040's....no, too hard to justify the hassle and cost...plus, who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release...and how long will it be before there's a better solution than ReplayTVs (like a PC with tuner cards)...especially when I decide to upgrade to HDTV....


So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.


Good luck *
I'm selling my brand new 5532's on EBAY. Getting 5000's.


----------



## GooberedUp

Quote:

_Originally posted by mhargr03_
*In my opinion this is close to impossible. These units were sold with this as their major feature, and continue to be sold as such on www.replaytvoutlet.com. If there was any chance DNNA was worried to such an extent that they would take the gigantic step of disabling CA on 5040s they would not still be selling them with those features advertised.*
If CA and IVS went away, DNNA would have to worry about a class-action from consumers.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.

Good luck *
DarkScreen, haven't you followed the thread? There already is a fix for the problem as long as you're willing to put up with daily reboots. Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).


In fact, if you're willing to leave the Wirns proxy running 24/7 then you don't even need the shellcmds registry setting and you can block a software update without the nightly reboots.


----------



## johnmagee4

Quote:

_Originally posted by GooberedUp_
*If CA and IVS went away, DNNA would have to worry about a class-action from consumers.*
I'm not so sure that would work. I think we all agreed in the terms and conditions of the service that SonicBlue (and most likely it's successors) could download new software and features to our machine, or disabled or remove features from our machine, without any notice. By using the machine we agree to the TOS, and I believe they gave the option that if we don't agree to the TOS then we can return the unit to them within xx amount of days for a full refund.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
*
Actually, if someone needs to downgrade from 144 to 19, there *may* be a way to do it that doesn't require reimaging and, thus, would preserve all recordings. Basically, you would check 411-zones to see whether b144 is booting from sys1 or sys2. Once you do that you would use WiRNS + GetShellCommands to delete an important system file there in hopes that the ReplayTV will revert to whatever version of the software you had before 144 (the older version will be in either sys1 or sys2--whichever one is NOT listed in 411-zones). This is a risky and untested procedure, but for those that have decided to reimage anyway (which causes a loss of recordings), it may be worth a try.


ReplayTVs do have this reversion capability and use it for botched software upgrade attempts, so it should theoretically work. Again, it is risky and may still require reimage (and could permanently hose your ReplayTV), but it is something to think about for those who want to downgrade...


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).


In fact, if you're willing to leave the Wirns proxy running 24/7 then you don't even need the shellcmds registry setting and you can block a software update without the nightly reboots.*
Nope. I can now confirm that you WILL get the nightly reboots when they want you to have the new software. My 5504 that I just got working the other day did not reboot last night after multiple connects, but tonight it tried to get new software, even though I have the software update disabled through the use of the shellcmds file AND I have the nosoftwareupdate wirns plugin, using the 1.2 beta version of wirns I believe. I have the replay configured as follows:


DNS1/2: wirns proxy

gateway: my routers address

IP of Replay: static


I had a couple power outages today, so I was wondering what if all the DVA messages were due to that. I can now confirm after net connecting and witnessing a reboot that the power outages were not responsible for all my issues.


Aww crap, was I supposed to set the gateway to the wirns proxy also??!! I for some odd reason thought only the DNS requests needed to be proxied. Don't tell me I just screwed myself....


Actually, going back and re-reading, it doesn't look like I needed to make the gateway the wirns box (correct?). I had an IVS transfer going when I tried changing the gateway to the wirns box, and the transfer just stopped, although it did look like it was successfully proxying all of the replay content on a netconnect. I changed the gateway back to my router, and the IVS transfer started moving along fine. From what I can tell, unless told otherwise, it looks like I did everything correctly and it just didn't work. Perhaps they are using a different domain to proxy the replay software download now, to avoid the wirns proxy?


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Basically, you would check 411-zones to see whether b144 is booting from sys1 or sys2.*
Can you make an image file from either partition?? If a person has Bld 144, can he capture the image from the previously used partition and get a 143 image that will work??


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

There already is a fix for the problem as long as you're willing to put up with daily reboots. Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
Sorry moyekj, I thought this was just an interim solution until something more robust got figured out. Ideally something that would restore CA and IVS along with the new software (and possibly future updates) and ideally, not require a re-imaging to 190.


Is anyone still exploring this?


BTW, is the RTV smart enough to avoid network connections to the mothership during or near recording events? If not, it would seem that a re-boot following a connection could lose recordings.


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Can you make an image file from either partition?? If a person has Bld 144, can he capture the image from the previously used partition and get a 143 image that will work??*
Both *directories* are on the same partition, the same system partition you are use to backing up.


----------



## adone36

OK, then is there a way to copy the older sys to the currently used directory, thereby recovering the previous build when you make an image?


----------



## bkushner

Do you have to keeo WIRNS running after setting this NODOWNLoad file?


----------



## sfhub

I'd assume you'd always want to run WIRNS because, at the minimum,

whatever registry settings you change could be changed back by RTV

servers at some future point in time.


----------



## dfjkl

My replay is not just booting once a day either now. Since I went to bed about 7 hours ago, it's rebooted once. It looks like the system rebooted it too (maybe to try to apply the new software). It rebooted around 7am this morning. DVA reports it announced it was going offline, it's on a UPS (since yesterdays power outage anyway), so to me it looks like the system reboot was intentional.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*My replay is not just booting once a day either now. Since I went to bed about 7 hours ago, it's rebooted once. It looks like the system rebooted it too (maybe to try to apply the new software). It rebooted around 7am this morning. DVA reports it announced it was going offline, it's on a UPS, so to me it looks like the system reboot was intentional.*
My unit rebooted twice in the last 24 hours too, about 12 hours between reboots. For both reboots, the "Last Successful Connect" time coincided with reboot time - odd that a Net Connect would happen twice in less than 24 hours without me forcing one. In any case the old software remains. Will monitor closely reboots and net connects for another few days before concluding for sure what's going on, though it's pretty clear that every net connect will cause a reboot unless one is watching at the time to prevent the reboot in which case it will postpone the reboot to a time of no activity.


----------



## mike411

So the only thing this new software does is cut the CA/IVS? Was it made for something else also?


----------



## sfhub

Close Captioning is improved.


There is support for newer DTV serial protocol.


----------



## moyekj

Well apparently it's not every net connect that forces a reboot - I forced 2 net connects recently and they went through without rebooting or prompting to reboot. So looks like the only side-effect is the unit thinks it has new software and reboots "once in a while" (haven't figured out a pattern on when it decides to do this) to try and install new software only to find there's no software to install.


----------



## dfjkl

I did not have the same experience last night. I forced about 3 or 4 of them, and it rebooted every time attempting to "install" new software.


----------



## dfjkl

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...71#post4240271 


I would say this thread indicates a "problem." I doubt it will be acknowledged as such though.


----------



## joshuairwin

Quote:

So the only thing this new software does is cut the CA/IVS? Was it made for something else also?
I just read through thirteen pages of messages and still have no idea what this software release did for my 5040.


What does WIRNS DNNA stand for?


Can somebody please give me an idea what has changed on my 5040 after I downloaded the newest release?


Thanks!


----------



## dfjkl

As far as I know, the new software should just fix closed captioning problems for the 5040's and add some new serial codes for serial enabled receivers. The 5504's though, it is disabling a loophole that allowed CA and IVS to be re-enabled on them (in addtion to that other stuff).


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by joshuairwin_
*I just read through thirteen pages of messages and still have no idea what this software release did for my 5040.
*
See sfhub's post above. Basically, if you don't use CC or DirecTV, the new software does nothing for 50xx ReplayTVs.

Quote:

*

What does WIRNS DNNA stand for?
*
DNNA is Digital Networks North America, the owner of ReplayTV, whose parent company is D&M Holdings, which also owns Denon and Marantz.


WiRNS is Windows Replay Network Server. Basically, it is software that can be used to emulate the ReplayTV servers to serve custom guide data etc. (note that it does NOT bypass activation in any way, that is required NO MATTER WHAT). See this thread for more info. Until the the build 144 software release, it could also be used in conjunction with a plugin called GetShellCommands to enable Commercial Advance (CA) and Internet Video Sharing (IVS) on ReplayTV 55xx units, models which DNNA sold without CA and IVS after its predecessor was essentially sued out of existence over them.


----------



## moyekj

dfjkl you have a p.m.


----------



## TheDreamer

Well, a machine did a net connect this evening and surprised me by rebooting afterwards (considering I rebooted it this morning because it had overshot the 7 day mark by 19 hours...and it was during a break in Olympics recording so I wanted to be safe).


The machine is now build 144 (which is good, because I was considering asking to see if I could get the machine on the list to get the Closed Captioning fix....it had been offered, but at the time I wasn't sure I wanted it.) Some 243RZ's...actually 18 worked better than 7. And, the last box is rebooting right now.


The thing about the CC fix...is that it only applies to shows recorded after the software update.


The Dreamer.


----------



## Bixit219

Quote:

_Originally posted by TheDreamer_
*Well, a machine did a net connect this evening and surprised me by rebooting afterwards


The machine is now build 144*
was it a 55XX or a 50XX series and did it clobber IVS/CA if its a 55XX?


----------



## fiveohhh

My 5540 just updated and lost ivs/ca. Wirns doesn't get it back either. not sure if that was disxussed allready but just adding my exp Hope someone gets a workaround to this.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by fiveohhh_
*My 5540 just updated and lost ivs/ca. Wirns doesn't get it back either. not sure if that was disxussed allready but just adding my exp Hope someone gets a workaround to this.*
You needed to be using wirns pre-update to escape being updated.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by fiveohhh_
*My 5540 just updated and lost ivs/ca. Wirns doesn't get it back either. not sure if that was disxussed allready but just adding my exp Hope someone gets a workaround to this.*
Well, at this point your options as somewhat limited. j.m. has an experimental fix posted back in Post #238 . You would then still need to run WiRNS afterwards and toggle the disablesoftwaredownload bit to 1 much like you did to enable CA and IVS. This method does not require you to reimage. I don't recall anyone trying this method yet. It would be nice to see how well it works out.


Your only other option you have is to reimage, disable the software update, and re-renable CA and IVS. Make aure you download all your shows with DVA before doing this though.


Now that you already have the new software, you're somewhat screwed. If you haven't been following the thread, they released this version to fix the holes that allow you to have those 2 features to begin with. It also offers better CC and serial support.


Personally, I would use DVA and download all your shows. Try j.m.'s method and let us know how that goes. I can't speak for him, but I'm sure he probably would help u. He seems to always try his best to lend a helping hand. If it works, you can delete the shows u downloaded with DVA. If that didn't work, I would just reimage. If you don't find yourself using CA and IVS all that much, I probably then would not even worry about it. I love both those features though.


Good luck! Keep us posted.


----------



## fiveohhh

Thanks for the reply I allready have a 5040, so Its not a huge deal for IVS since I can get shows from that box. I might give jim's method a try. If I do I'll be sure to post results. Is there a possibility for permanent dmg using it(something that would turnit into a doorstop)? And lastly j.m. what getshellcmd would I need to use.

Thanks


----------



## Diode1

Quote:

_Originally posted by fiveohhh_
*My 5540 just updated and lost ivs/ca. Wirns doesn't get it back either. not sure if that was disxussed allready but just adding my exp Hope someone gets a workaround to this.*
Your post is confusing.

You have a 5040 or a 5504? "not a 5540"

I read it as a 5504 model that is the problem

I see you have both 5040 & 5504, but not a 5540 model.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bixit219_
*was it a 55XX or a 50XX series and did it clobber IVS/CA if its a 55XX?*
All my machines to 5000's...I can hardly wait to have better CC on all my shows.... 


The Dreamer.


----------



## TheDreamer

Quote:

_Originally posted by Diode1_
*Your post is confusing.

You have a 5040 or a 5504? "not a 5540"

I read it as a 5504 model that is the problem

I see you have both 5040 & 5504, but not a 5540 model.*
Unless he really does have a 5500 series box upgraded to 400GB.... 


Technically most of my 5000's are 5250's now....originally a 5160, 2 5040s, a 5060 and a 5080....


The Dreamer


----------



## fiveohhh

sorry 'bout that its a 5504 that lost ivs/ca, I have one of each. The 5040 is still good.


----------



## ashvash920

okay guys..this is gonna sound weird:

i have a 5504 that i reimaged with the 50xx file just a couple of weeks ago (i'm a noobie). anyway, long story short, i still have ca feature under the setup menu. it has net-connected since the update was released, but the ca button is still there. also, the software version is the same as before.


doesn't do a lot of good though..ca never works. i think it's cause the cable connection is bad quality to begin with. anyway, i'll try it out on history channel..i think i saw it work on history before, let's see if it still does. oh yeah, when ca is working, you're supposed to see a roman numeral 3 right (III)?


----------



## icecow

My 50xx still has version 51whatever190. The new software has not rolled out to my unit yet.


I'm thinking the new software has not rolled out to your new unit yet, but will.


----------



## mhargr03

like cow, my 5040-->5250 still has 190


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by ashvash920_
*it has net-connected since the update was released, but the ca button is still there. also, the software version is the same as before.
*
That's why you still have CA and IVS. New software is intitially rolled out slowly. Sooner or latter, your ReplayTV will download the new software (unless you prevent this as described in this thread). When it does, you will lose CA and IVS on a 55xx.

Quote:

*

doesn't do a lot of good though..ca never works. i think it's cause the cable connection is bad quality to begin with. anyway, i'll try it out on history channel..i think i saw it work on history before, let's see if it still does. oh yeah, when ca is working, you're supposed to see a roman numeral 3 right (III)?*
Yes, bad quality cable will greatly reduce the effectiveness of CA. With CA turned on, you will see a little "lll" symbol in the lower righthand corner when the ReplaYTV skips a commercial break.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*That's why you still have CA and IVS. New software is intitially rolled out slowly. Sooner or latter, your ReplayTV will download the new software (unless you prevent this as described in this thread). When it does, you will lose CA and IVS on a 55xx.




Yes, bad quality cable will greatly reduce the effectiveness of CA. With CA turned on, you will see a little "lll" symbol in the lower righthand corner when the ReplaYTV skips a commercial break.*
JM. Do you see any possible future solution that we will be able to get the CA and IVS back on 5500 under normal conditions as we had previous to this upgrade or is it a lost cause?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*JM. Do you see any possible future solution that we will be able to get the CA and IVS back on 5500 under normal conditions as we had previous to this upgrade or is it a lost cause?*
It is unlikely that we will be able to find anything significantly better than the current solution (i.e. blocking the software upgrade).


----------



## jones07

Dishnet would force you to take software upgrade by causing your box to malfunction. This was to fight piracy.


But I don't think DNNA has the desirer on the will to go this far.................Do you ?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*It is unlikely that we will be able to find anything significantly better than the current solution (i.e. blocking the software upgrade).*
So now what we really need is some kind soul to offer an internet-accessible server running the Wirns proxy with the NoSoftwareUpdate block so we (the affected ones) don't all have to keep our own proxies running 24/7.  Now I wish my workplace hadn't ditched the hardware VPN boxes in favor of sofware VPN - I could have used a company computer (that's on 24/7 regardless) to run the little proxy otherwise. Sigh... I think I'll settle on running a daily script to automate a proxied forced net connect.


----------



## KwadGuy

For those dishonest folks who sold 5504s on eBay with claims that they had commercial advance (because the seller had modded them) and without disclaimers that CA could easily disapper, the fun now begins...and deservedly so...


Kwad


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by KwadGuy_
*For those dishonest folks who sold 5504s on eBay with claims that they had commercial advance (because the seller had modded them) and without disclaimers that CA could easily disapper, the fun now begins...and deservedly so...


Kwad*
Indeed...I wish I had a seat in that arena.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*That's why you still have CA and IVS. New software is intitially rolled out slowly. Sooner or latter, your ReplayTV will download the new software (unless you prevent this as described in this thread). When it does, you will lose CA and IVS on a 55xx.




Yes, bad quality cable will greatly reduce the effectiveness of CA. With CA turned on, you will see a little "lll" symbol in the lower righthand corner when the ReplaYTV skips a commercial break.*
JM: If I do this noupgrade thingy, do I always need to connect to the mothership via WIRNS? How do I prevent the unit from contacting the mothership when my wirns isn't running?


----------



## jones07

Quote:

_Originally posted by KwadGuy_
*For those dishonest folks who sold 5504s on eBay with claims that they had commercial advance (because the seller had modded them) and without disclaimers that CA could easily disapper, the fun now begins...and deservedly so...


Kwad*
Guess the price of "real" 5000's just went up some.


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by jones07_
*Guess the price of "real" 5000's just went up some. *
They did for those that still don't realize refurb 5040's are still available at www.replaytvoutlet.com for 79.99


----------



## bradbomb

well I'm added to the notch of been updated to 144 and lost CA and IVS. I have an 5504 btw if no one remembered. Well like I said in other gray area things, it was fun while it lasted


----------



## j.m.

For those of you running routers that allow you to block web sites by URL/keyword, you might also try putting in "getsw.pl" as that is what the ReplayTV HTTP GETs to download new software. I have no idea whether that will be effective, but it's worth a shot.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*JM: If I do this noupgrade thingy, do I always need to connect to the mothership via WIRNS? How do I prevent the unit from contacting the mothership when my wirns isn't running?*
If you use the registry setting then you don't need Wirns running all the time, but you have to live with many reboots (at least twice a day from my experience). Using the Wirns NoSoftwareUpdate plugin means you can avoid the daily reboots but then you must always run the net connect through Wirns - which usually implies you want to leave it running 24/7 unless you manually force regular net-connects yourself (that's what I'm doing now). Note if Wirns is not running at the time then your RTV net connect will fail, so that's not really a problem other than your clock and guide don't get updated, so you can't go too long with failures.


----------



## Jeff D

Well, the regedit "fix" could be wiped out in about 12 seconds by DNNA. I wouldn't rely on that method. The better (or best) option would be wirns, if only someone had a server we could all use! =)


----------



## moyekj

For anyone who may be interested, here's a Perl script to automate starting Wirns and running a force net connect then killing Wirns and turning off RTV (for those not wanting to run Wirns 24/7 but looking for an automated way of doing an update).

Code:


Code:


# The intent here is to force a net connect of an RTV going through
# a Wirns proxy to prevent unwanted software download. I don't want to
# leave the Wirns proxy running 24/7 so use this to automate daily
# forced net connects, through the proxy.
# The Wirns proxy should have the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin installed.
# This Perl script will start the Wirns proxy and then issue a forced
# net connect to specified RTV IP that is setup with manual settings
# with DNS pointing at the Wirns IP, and then kill the Wirns proxy
# once the net connect completes.
# NOTE: This script is win32-specific.
# NOTE: Remember to kill anything running on port 80 (such as DVA)
#       before running this - else Wirns won't start.

use Win32::Process;
require LWP::UserAgent;
require HTTP::Request;

# Adjust these for your environment
local $RTVIP = "192.168.1.5";
local $WIRNSDIR = "C:\\\\home\\\\wirns";
local $NETCONNECT_SLEEP = 260; # time to wait for netconnect to finish (secs)

# Don't need to mess with these
local $WIRNS = $WIRNSDIR . "\\\\WiRNS.exe";
local $CALL = "WiRNS -server";
local $TIMEOUT = 20;

### START MAIN ###
# Turn off buffering
$| = 1;

# Start Wirns as a background child process
local $CHILD;
&startChild(\\$CHILD,$WIRNS,$CALL,$WIRNSDIR);

# Force net connect for $RTVIP
&netConnect($RTVIP);

# Kill Wirns and exit
print "Killing Wirns\
";
$CHILD->Kill(0);
exit(0);
### END MAIN ###

sub startChild {
 my ($child, $prog, $call, $dir) = @_;
   my $result = Win32::Process::Create(
      $$child, $prog, $call, 0, CREATE_NEW_CONSOLE, $dir
   );
   die "Failed to start: $prog\
" if ! $result;

   # Give a few moments for process to start
   sleep(5);
}

sub netConnect {
 my $IP = shift;
   $on = 200;
   $off = 201;
   $exit = 164;
   $two = 182;
   $three = 183;
   $four = 184;
   $seven = 187;
   $zone = 197;
   @sequence = ($on, $exit, $exit, $two, $four, $three, $zone, $seven);
   my $prefix = "http://$IP/httputils-sendciomessage?cioc=";
   my $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new(timeout=>$TIMEOUT);
   my $request;
   foreach $code (@sequence) {
      $query = $prefix . $code;
      sleep(1);
      print "$query\
";
      $request = HTTP::Request->new(GET=>$query);
      $ua->request($request);
   }

   # sleep for a while
   sleep($NETCONNECT_SLEEP);

   # Exit and turn off RTV
   @sequence = ($exit, $off);
   foreach $code (@sequence) {
      $query = $prefix . $code;
      sleep(1);
      print "$query\
";
      $request = HTTP::Request->new(GET=>$query);
      $ua->request($request);
   }
}


----------



## bkushner

What would it take for a server to be set up where people wouldn't need to run WIRNS on their local computers ratjer their boxes would connect to a server running wirns instead of the mothership?


Brian


----------



## Jeff D

a server is all that's needed, but without that there's no way. It's really that simple.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*If you use the registry setting then you don't need Wirns running all the time, but you have to live with many reboots (at least twice a day from my experience). Using the Wirns NoSoftwareUpdate plugin means you can avoid the daily reboots but then you must always run the net connect through Wirns - which usually implies you want to leave it running 24/7 unless you manually force regular net-connects yourself (that's what I'm doing now). Note if Wirns is not running at the time then your RTV net connect will fail, so that's not really a problem other than your clock and guide don't get updated, so you can't go too long with failures.*
What about IVS. Will this still work if my wirns hosting computer is not on? I mean the DNS server on the replay box is not good unless WIRNS is running on the host computer?


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*a server is all that's needed, but without that there's no way. It's really that simple.*
So tell me, how is that accomplished?


----------



## jones07

Quote:

_Originally posted by mhargr03_
*They did for those that still don't realize refurb 5040's are still available at www.replaytvoutlet.com for 79.99*
I know, I been waiting for them refurbs to dry up for 4 months now


----------



## Bigjohns

my 5504, protected this way (it's first net connect was at setup time, it's second and all subsequent through wirns)
Code:


Code:


[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.
[PROXY] URI: ( [URL='http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getshellcmds.pl?version']http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-b...mds.pl?version[/URL] 
=530510190&serial=RTV5040L2CA0155749&cstate=(PauseAds('Delay'N'1''Enabled'N'1')D
efaultPlayback('CommercialSkipEnabled'N'1')Internet('InternetEnabled'N'1')))
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from file.

Seems to be crashing a lot...

Code:


Code:


08/24 11:54:00 ERROR: SCHD_UPDATER:: Error while attempting upcoming recordings update -- Unable to fetch a guide from DVR Bre
08/24 11:54:12 Notice: UPNP:: DVArchive has recognized new DVR ReplayTV named Bre at 192.168.2.52:80 (Serial RTV5504J3MA0239549)
08/24 11:54:12 ERROR: UPNP_MANAGER:: Error dispatching update UPnP Devices -- null
08/24 11:54:20 Notice: Timestamp offset for Bre set to -45 seconds.
08/24 11:54:20 DVR Bre space usage update: Total Capacity 37.8GB, Remaining 33.39GB

08/24 18:46:25 Notice: UPNP:: DVR at 192.168.2.52 has announced it's going offline - removing it from DVArchive
08/24 18:46:25 ERROR: UPNP_MANAGER:: Error dispatching update UPnP Devices -- null
08/24 18:46:27 Notice: UPNP:: Received UPnP packet from previously unknown DVR @ 192.168.2.52 -- looking up DVR info
08/24 18:46:46 Notice: UPNP:: DVArchive has received a request that ALL DVRs identify themselves - responding
08/24 18:46:59 ERROR: SCHD_UPDATER:: Error while attempting upcoming recordings update -- Unable to fetch a guide from DVR Bre
08/24 18:47:16 Notice: UPNP:: DVArchive has recognized new DVR ReplayTV named Bre at 192.168.2.52:80 (Serial RTV5504J3MA0239549)
08/24 18:47:16 ERROR: UPNP_MANAGER:: Error dispatching update UPnP Devices -- null
08/24 18:47:24 Notice: Timestamp offset for Bre set to -49 seconds.
08/24 18:47:24 DVR Bre space usage update: Total Capacity 37.8GB, Remaining 33.39GB

08/25 02:01:52 DVR Family Room space usage update: Total Capacity 152.18GB, Remaining 33.79GB
08/25 05:48:46 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 05:49:07 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 05:49:33 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 05:50:02 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 05:50:02 ERROR: SCHD_UPDATER:: Error while attempting upcoming recordings update -- Unable to fetch a guide from DVR Bre
08/25 06:08:38 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 06:08:38 ERROR: Error reading DVR guide for Bre -- DVR may have crashed
08/25 06:28:59 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out
08/25 06:28:59 ERROR: Error reading DVR guide for Bre -- DVR may have crashed
08/25 06:39:20 Alert: DVArchive has not heard from Bre (192.168.2.52:80) in the last 30 minutes -- assuming it is gone/dead and removing it from internal DVR list
08/25 06:39:20 ERROR: UPNP_MANAGER:: Error dispatching update UPnP Devices -- null
08/25 06:39:46 ERROR: Error Fetching guide from DVR Bre -- Read timed out

That seems abnormal to me....


Any thoughts gents and ladies?


----------



## TheDreamer

Well, it was said previously...that a sideeffect of trying to block software updates...is that your machine will still try to reboot to apply the software update after a net connect.


And, net connects happen randomly after a reboot....anywhere from a few minutes after the reboot up to the approximately 25 hour mark. This is why if you want to 'set' a netconnect time...its reboot the machine and then do a netconnect at the you want the range to start. And, repeat this every 7 days.


I do this now and then. Wait for a night where there is no recording activity after 11pm....reboot all my machines, and net connect. It'll slowly advance the time, but it'll be before I get up the next morning to check all my machines (which is now part of my morning ritual...) After 11pm, works for me...because it'll have the next new day of guide data if it connects after this time.....except for the box that uses WiRNS (which fetches X days based on the current date....so I need to wait until about a quarter after midnight for the WiRNS part to match what I can get from ReplayTV).


Of course, over time the reboot cycle alters....used to be because machines would crash unexpectedly....now its usually because they continue running past the 7 day mark (and not because there is a recording in progress, because as I said I specifically picked a night where there wouldn't be any to worry about).


The Dreamer.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*So tell me, how is that accomplished?*
Port 80 on the host computer needs to be open to the WAN (internet) and the host computer should be setup running Wirns with the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin (the getsw.pl block) but passing everything else through to the DNNA servers. Then RTV 55xx owners simply point their RTV DNS at the WAN IP of this host computer.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Port 80 on the host computer needs to be open to the WAN (internet) and the host computer should be setup running Wirns with the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin (the getsw.pl block) but passing everything else through to the DNNA servers. Then RTV 55xx owners simply point their RTV DNS at the WAN IP of this host computer.*
And this can be done with a desktop computer? How many connections could be handled? How much bandwith will it suck up?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*my 5504, protected this way (it's first net connect was at setup time, it's second and all subsequent through wirns)

Seems to be crashing a lot...

That seems abnormal to me....


Any thoughts gents and ladies?*
If you want to permanently use Wirns and the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin then you should delete the registry setting that is causing the frequent reboots. i.e. put the following in shellcmds:

regedit delete SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload


Note, setting it to 0 is not sufficient to avoid the reboots... it must be deleted in my experience for the frequent reboots to cease. After you delete it you may get another reboot (or two), but then things will stabilize. My machine has not rebooted for over 30 hours after I did that.


----------



## Bigjohns

Won't doing this cause my machine to get the new software then?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Won't doing this cause my machine to get the new software then?*
As long as you point your RTV55x DNS at Wirns and Wirns has the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin, no. This is the more reliable way of blocking an update (though still not foolproof since DNNA could circumvent it still if they choose to) compared to the registry setting method.


----------



## Bigjohns

*scurrys off to find this nosoftwaredownloadplugin....***


----------



## mike411

What if DNNA adds software that some of you may want?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by mike411_
*What if DNNA adds software that some of you may want?*
LOL - good one  But seriously, you can easily stop blocking software updates at any time, so at some point in the future if you wish to get the new software you can. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for new features you'd be willing to give up CA/IVS for - and in any case for over a year there hasn't been any advancement of the software other than bug fixes (CC) and some bonus serial code updates which are not big additions for most users.


----------



## Bixit219

I don't think I have seen anyone ask this but did anyone get WIRNS to run on linux? either a linux native version or under WINE?


also, just wondering if I worse comes to worse and ultimately we have to accept the software update, I am assuming that I could swap the hard drives between my 50XX and 55XX without any issues .. I am assuming the unit that is the 55XX will eventually have CA/IVS disabled and thats fine (if I have no choice).. Why I want to do this is I am far to lazy to extract all the shows from the 55XX (family room) which has the larger hard drive and the hookup to the digital cable box whereas the 50XX unit is now in the bedroom with just basic cable (we usually stream content off the bedroom machine anyway which we watch using the family room machine, and usually never watch the bedroom unit directly), I just want to swap em with minimal fuss and disruption, I'd also like having to avoid redoing the channel guides and channel setups on either machine, archiving shows via dvarchive, etc.... any pitfalls to this? again I am assuming this should be a no brainer..


----------



## Jeff D

So... who's going to host the wirns server? I haven't updated in a week... I need new guides. =)


----------



## bkushner

Once again I have to ask...Can you still do IVS if you set the box to do WIRNS updates each day and you don't have the host computer running?


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Once again I have to ask...Can you still do IVS if you set the box to do WIRNS updates each day and you don't have the host computer running?*
If the unit is set to use WIRNS as the "dns", and it's down, there will be no net-connect.


IVS requires communication through the "dns".


So the answer is NO.


John


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*If the unit is set to use WIRNS as the "dns", and it's down, there will be no net-connect.


IVS requires communication through the "dns".


So the answer is NO.


John*
So I have to leave WIRNS running 24-7 if I want to participate in IVS since IVS is the whole reason I"m using the nodownload plugin? Seems like a catch 22. I really didn't want to leave my computer running 24-7 but I guess that's the price I'll pay.


----------



## Bigjohns

if you have an old low-power laptop, you could run wirns on that...


John


----------



## bkushner

One question I had about using WIRNS, I notice when I start a net connect, the connection sits for a while at SETTING CLOCK before continuing on...is there a reason for that?


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*So I have to leave WIRNS running 24-7 if I want to participate in IVS since IVS is the whole reason I"m using the nodownload plugin? Seems like a catch 22. I really didn't want to leave my computer running 24-7 but I guess that's the price I'll pay.*
You'll probably find you'll just want to set WiRNS up on some old computer just to exclusively facilitate this need. You won't be able to run DVA and WiRNS @ the same time.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*You won't be able to run DVA and WiRNS @ the same time.*
Well, that's the easy answer. However, with XP (and Win2K IIRC), you can run both WiRNS and DVA on the same PC by assigning it multiple LAN IP addresses in Network properties and binding each to a separate IP. This is somewhat complex, so I have just given the same answer you did in the past when people just wanted to run WiRNS once for CA/IVS. However, with the recent changes in b144 that have prompted some to run WiRNS 24/7, it is worth noting that it can be run simultaneously with DVA as I describe above.


----------



## cephraim

Have been eagerly awaiting an easy solution for my 5504 144 box. Meanwhile, I was missing CA and IVS.


So, I went the old fashioned route: Sold my 5504 with lifetime to someone at work for $300 and just picked up a 5160 with lifetime on ebay for $320 delivered (item #5717117181).


Yeah, I know. No one likes a bragger. But, I was so pysched with the deal I got, I had to share!


Thanks again to everyone on this board for making my original 5504 capable of using CA and IVS for the last 6 months. You definitely opened my eyes to the great benefits of these capabilities.


Eph


----------



## icecow

Great Job

The replaytv broker should get something for straightening out a coworker's life..

that's coo..


of course if you want to get back at the coworker in the corporate world you could invite them over for dinner and show them CA and IVS and DVA and Poopli


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*However, with XP (and Win2K IIRC), you can run both WiRNS and DVA on the same PC by assigning it multiple LAN IP addresses in Network properties and binding each to a separate IP.*
In case anyone would find this useful (not necessarily for WIRNS and DVA),

you can have multiple IPs per ethernet interface in win98 also, just there

is no UI so you need to edit the registry directly.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by cephraim_
*Have been eagerly awaiting an easy solution for my 5504 144 box. Meanwhile, I was missing CA and IVS.


So, I went the old fashioned route: Sold my 5504 with lifetime to someone at work for $300 and just picked up a 5160 with lifetime on ebay for $320 delivered (item #5717117181).


Yeah, I know. No one likes a bragger. But, I was so pysched with the deal I got, I had to share!
*
Evil. That's what I paid for my 5504 off ebay after shipping figuring I got a pretty good buy and I would just hack CA/IVS. Then the next day or 2, before I had the Replay, but after winning the bid, this thread started. Just my luck.  I already had a DVA box running 24/7 though, now it's doing WiRNS also.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*You'll probably find you'll just want to set WiRNS up on some old computer just to exclusively facilitate this need. You won't be able to run DVA and WiRNS @ the same time.*
Please don't diseminate bad data.


With win2k and XP you can add multiple IP addresses to a network adapter.


xxx.xxx.xxx.55 is my "main" IP - and wirns.

xxx.xxx.xxx.100 is my second, and DVA server.


John


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by cephraim_
*Have been eagerly awaiting an easy solution for my 5504 144 box. Meanwhile, I was missing CA and IVS.


So, I went the old fashioned route: Sold my 5504 with lifetime to someone at work for $300 and just picked up a 5160 with lifetime on ebay for $320 delivered (item #5717117181).


Yeah, I know. No one likes a bragger. But, I was so pysched with the deal I got, I had to share!


Thanks again to everyone on this board for making my original 5504 capable of using CA and IVS for the last 6 months. You definitely opened my eyes to the great benefits of these capabilities.


Eph*
I'm in the process of doing the same with my 5532's


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Please don't diseminate bad data.


With win2k and XP you can add multiple IP addresses to a network adapter.


xxx.xxx.xxx.55 is my "main" IP - and wirns.

xxx.xxx.xxx.100 is my second, and DVA server.


John*
Where do I change the IP address in DVA?


Brian


----------



## Bigjohns

after adding a second IP in the network control panel, you go to the server tab in DVA.


----------



## jlv

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bixit219_
*I don't think I have seen anyone ask this but did anyone get WIRNS to run on linux?*
Yes. The same functionallity via a perl script is described in the ReplayTV TWiki] . I reported on using it in the original GetShellCommands thread . A simple patch accomplishes what j.m.'s "NoSoftwareUpdate" WiRNS plugin does.


(excuse the "txt" extension, but that is the only way to get the board to upload it)

 

replaytv_proxy.pl.patch.txt 2.19140625k . file


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*Yes. The same functionallity via a perl script is described in the ReplayTV TWiki] . I reported on using it in the original GetShellCommands thread . A simple patch accomplishes what j.m.'s "NoSoftwareUpdate" WiRNS plugin does.


(excuse the "txt" extension, but that is the only way to get the board to upload it)*
Except the micro-dns functionality is not in this script. Would be nice to have a complete Perl script that handles DNS + proxy functionality so that you can just run the Perl script by itself on a server and point the RTV DNS at that server. i.e. No iptables or other tricks needed.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Except the micro-dns functionality is not in this script. Would be nice to have a complete Perl script that handles DNS + proxy functionality so that you can just run the Perl script by itself on a server and point the RTV DNS at that server. i.e. No iptables or other tricks needed.*
If your running a server already, why not just run DNS on it?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*If your running a server already, why not just run DNS on it?*
The DNS portion can get complicated, especially porting the solution to different servers. i.e. redirecting production.replaytv.net requests to the proxy requires different techniques depending on the system and DNS software you are using. i.e. just for the purposes of accomplishing this simple task I don't want to jump through hoops getting DNS setup. I like the idea that one can run a script for a small amount of time for this task, enough to force net connect the RTV through the proxy and then exit. That's why I wrote the script I supplied a page or two back - that script is not portable however because currently it's using Wirns.


----------



## dfjkl

To me it seems it would be the opposite, the DNS portion being easy and the scripting/proxying complicated.


----------



## sixt7gt350

Unless I missed it somewhere, has anyone brought up the fact that DNNA can still prevent IVS at the server level?

For all those with faked 5XXX boxes, I hope that CA is all you really wanted out of modding your 55XX Replay units.


DNNA will catch on soon enough that the crowd wiley enough to turn a unit that didn't ship with certain features into an earlier model is also the same crowd preventing software updates to "fix" said machines.


P.S. They could also track your box to see IVS having been used on a 55XX unit and know you opened it to install the software. There went your warranty, regardless of how well you preserved the sticker....


----------



## RChobby

Well, my 5504 with the flipped "nosoftwareupdate" bit is still holding at 190. Reboots daily, but I really don't see a down side to that. Thanks for the help keeping CA and IVS!


----------



## BYRD DOG

Quote:

_...P.S. They could also track your box to see IVS having been used on a 55XX unit and know you opened it to install the software. There went your warranty, regardless of how well you preserved the sticker....[/b]_
_
You don't have to open the case, all you have to do is use WIRNS. Therefore your warranty wouldn't be voided. Unless there is a clause about software manipulation of any kind voiding the waranty. If that is the case, would DVArchive itself void the warranty since it is not an intended use?_


----------



## Bixit219

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*Yes. The same functionallity via a perl script is described in the ReplayTV TWiki] . I reported on using it in the original GetShellCommands thread . A simple patch accomplishes what j.m.'s "NoSoftwareUpdate" WiRNS plugin does.


(excuse the "txt" extension, but that is the only way to get the board to upload it)*
Thanks !! Much Appreciated...


----------



## Bixit219

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*A simple patch accomplishes what j.m.'s "NoSoftwareUpdate" WiRNS plugin does.*
Humm.. perhaps I am just a little thick headed today.. patch? Is it so obvious I am missing it?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bixit219_
*Humm.. perhaps I am just a little thick headed today.. patch? Is it so obvious I am missing it?*
It is attached to the post from which you quoted. To be clear, it is a patch for a ReplayTV Proxy script written in Perl that can do some of the same stuff WiRNS does. The patch adds the ability to block software updates to the script.


----------



## drWaLLs

What should this be named as?


and how do you use it?


----------



## Bixit219

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*It is attached to the post from which you quoted. To be clear, it is a patch for a ReplayTV Proxy script written in Perl that can do some of the same stuff WiRNS does. The patch adds the ability to block software updates to the script.*
Ah ok.. gotcha .. yes I must have been out to lunch.. that clears it up.. I didn't realize that the attached file was already patched, then again, I haven't had the opportunity to read thru it to see what it does and how it works, etc... again thanks..


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bixit219_
*I didn't realize that the attached file was already patched*
Actually, it isn't. The attached file *is* the patch. You will have to apply the patch using "diff" to the full version of the Perl script, which I believe is available from the ReplayTV Twiki.


BTW, Windows users should probably just stick to WiRNS + NoSoftwareUpdate. The Perl script really doesn't offer any advantages over it AFAICT (other than it runs on non-Windows platforms, e.g. Linux) and is harder to set up.


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Unfortunately the shellcmds actions are effected AFTER a new software check during the net connect, so you may not prevent the software update from occuring while setting up Wirns to do exactly that. In any case, during the net connect targeted at Wirns with the shellcmds, watch the RTV messages closely, and if a new software download is initiated then just pull the plug on the ethernet right away and cancel the net connect then try again in a few minutes. If it's already too late and you have the new software you'll have to re-image the drive and try again.*
So i set up the shell command and ran WIRNS. I then did a net connect and stupidly watched the new software downloading (i found your warning after it was done). The unit then asked to reboot in 2 mins. I denied that request. I still have the 190 software and CA and IVS are still working. Am i totally screwed or do i just have to refuse the reboot request everytime i get it?


----------



## drWaLLs

last night i did a net connect and noticed it tried to download the new software so i quickly stopped it and started up the Wirns server again..


from what i can tell from reading through these boards, to avoid the upgrade i have to keep the Wirns server running and now use it for my upgrades, do we just update the guide on Wirns and then do a net connect with the replay daily?


thanks j.m. for showing us that we can have both Wirns and DVarchive running at the same time


----------



## marors1

I haven't received any new updates yet, does anyone know if they are in full release mode yet, or just the few (un)lucky people are getting the updates.


I might try the wirns thing, but hopefully my first connection wont be the one that updates me.


D


----------



## Jeff D

drwalls, you can leave your replay configured to have the DNS point to your PC, if the PC isn't running WiRNS or even on than the replay can't connect. Your PC is the gateway to the net and if it's off nothing will get through, if Wirns isn't running it also won't get through.


You can power up your PC and WiRNS every few days and for a connection. That seems about the most practical choice at the moment. The guide runs for 10 days, you should be able to go 5 days or so between updates. But... note that any late changes to the guide won't be made to your guide as you aren't updating nightly.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*So i set up the shell command and ran WIRNS. I then did a net connect and stupidly watched the new software downloading (i found your warning after it was done). The unit then asked to reboot in 2 mins. I denied that request. I still have the 190 software and CA and IVS are still working. Am i totally screwed or do i just have to refuse the reboot request everytime i get it?*
Eventually (perhaps during maintanance reboot) the software will install itself without asking you. j.m. touched on this before, but there may be a way of corrupting the system partition on which the new software is downloaded such that your RTV won't switch over to it. I don't know what tells the software which partition to use: sys1 or sys2. If someone has more insight on that then it's possible you can force the system to keep using the same partition you are currently using (with the 190 software). You can tell which partition you are using as part of 411-zones info. If you can permanently "disable" the other partition then theoretically the RTV would not bug you to install the new software, and you wouldn't need to keep Wirns with NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin running to prevent a future update. This assumes that new software always will download to the other partition you are not using , which I think is right.


The easy way out for you for now is load a 190 image back on and use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll Wirns plugin to prevent software updates. But I'd really like for us to explore the possibility of defining which partition to use, as that sounds like a viable solution to preventing a software update as I described above without the need to keep Wirns running.


----------



## Bixit219

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*there may be a way of corrupting the system partition on which the new software is downloaded such that your RTV won't switch over to it.*
I was thinking it might be easier and more effective to just delete what it downloaded..


----------



## drWaLLs

what is this i read about the replay automatically rebooting now..


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by drWaLLs_
*what is this i read about the replay automatically rebooting now..*
Go back a few pages and read... all the info is there. It boils down to that if you set the registry to avoid software updates you will get frequent reboots, so don't use that method. Use the proxy method instead (Wirns with NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Go back a few pages and read... all the info is there. It boils down to that if you set the registry to avoid software updates you will get frequent reboots, so don't use that method. Use the proxy method instead (Wirns with NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).*
frequent reboots? Heck, mine acted like it was having a sezure.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*If you can permanently "disable" the other partition then theoretically the RTV would not bug you to install the new software, and you wouldn't need to keep Wirns with NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin running to prevent a future update. This assumes that new software always will download to the other partition you are not using , which I think is right.
*
So here is the potential downside to this. I had one of my sys folders corrupted and every night it would download the then new software and proceed to reboot and then hang on good ol' 'Please Wait'. Until, that is, I would reboot it in the morning and it would fall back to the old non-corrupted sys folder. So if I happened to be trying to record something at 4 am forget it, I wasn't going to get it.


Anyway, the point is that if the Replay thinks that it has downloaded new software, it's going to reboot to that the other sys folder. Just a word of warning.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by Conspiracy_
*So here is the potential downside to this. I had one of my sys folders corrupted and every night it would download the then new software and proceed to reboot and then hang on good ol' 'Please Wait'. Until, that is, I would reboot it in the morning and it would fall back to the old non-corrupted sys folder. So if I happened to be trying to record something at 4 am forget it, I wasn't going to get it.


Anyway, the point is that if the Replay thinks that it has downloaded new software, it's going to reboot to that the other sys folder. Just a word of warning.*
I was more thinking along the lines of controlling which sys partition the RTV should use, so even if new software is downloaded and installed to the other partition you currently are not using if we could force it to continue using the current partition then we would still have the old software. If there then was yet another software update again it would go to the other partition and if the solution to "select" which partition we want is sticky then again one is protected against a software update. Understanding how the RTV chooses which sys partition to use may give us a new bag of tricks to work with.


All this of course is pure conjecture... I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas to come up with a better solution than we currently have found given that we have not made much progress for a few pages in this thread.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Understanding how the RTV chooses which sys partition to use may give us a new bag of tricks to work with.*
I have looked into this before. As best I can tell, this info is either stored in the EEPROM or some other onboard chip. If so, this would make it pretty difficult to change. Also, I'm pretty sure the EEPROM is el gamal signed (which does make me wonder whether the sys1 references there actually control the boot dir since it would change upon every upgrade, requiring a new signature). Alternatively, the ReplayTV may examine the boot.state file located in both sys1 and sys2 to determine which to boot. The format of this file is not immediately obvious to me.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Alternatively, the ReplayTV may examine the boot.state file located in both sys1 and sys2 to determine which to boot. The format of this file is not immediately obvious to me.*
Lee Thompson or FlipFlop would very likely be able to help out with that, or may have some info on the partition selection. I found nothing in the archives about that particular file.


----------



## gal67

STOMP!!!!!!!!


It took me Days, Days, Days to get WIRNS to work.


I really was loving my CA and IVS.


I read all 18 pages hoping for some kind of miracle from J.M. by the time I got here.


I'd like to hear about anyone that tries the sys1/sys2 option please!


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*So i set up the shell command and ran WIRNS. I then did a net connect and stupidly watched the new software downloading (i found your warning after it was done). The unit then asked to reboot in 2 mins. I denied that request. I still have the 190 software and CA and IVS are still working. Am i totally screwed or do i just have to refuse the reboot request everytime i get it?*
Well, my unit must have rebooted sometime last night. I now have the 440 software. I have lost CA and IVS. However, i still have a received category and i can play shows that are in there. Thanks DNNA . It was fun while it lasted.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*Well, my unit must have rebooted sometime last night. I now have the 440 software. I have lost CA and IVS. However, i still have a received category and i can play shows that are in there. Thanks DNNA . It was fun while it lasted. *
It sounded like in your previous post that you feel you successfully added regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1 to your shellcmd file using WiRNS. Is that correct?


Both my machines seem to reboot 2 times a day or so and seem to be holding strong with the Disabled Software Download. I'm just kinda hanging out in limbo to see what pans out before committing to full time use of WiRNS.


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*It sounded like in your previous post that you feel you successfully added regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1 to your shellcmd file using WiRNS. Is that correct?


Both my machines seem to reboot 2 times a day or so and seem to be holding strong with the Disabled Software Download. I'm just kinda hanging out in limbo to see what pans out before committing to full time use of WiRNS.*
My mistake was not yanking the internet connection when the software started to download. I ran the shell commands and did a net connect right away and foolishly watched as the software was downloaded.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*My mistake was not yanking the internet connection when the software started to download. I ran the shell commands and did a net connect right away and foolishly watched as the software was downloaded.*
To be safe, you must run the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin while setting the DisableSoftwareDownload regedit value. Aftwerwards, for the time being at least, the regedit setting may be enough, though it apparently causes reboots.


For those of you who have had their units updated to 144 and would like to revert to an earlier version and block future upgrades, hang on for a bit before reimaging. I have developed a method that will allow you to revert without losing your recordings etc. It is going through some final tests, and I will post here when that is done.


----------



## drWaLLs

is there a way to hide wirns but let it still run 24/7?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by drWaLLs_
*is there a way to hide wirns but let it still run 24/7?*
 TrayIt should allow you to put WiRNS in the system tray.


Does WiRNS support running as a service yet? If so, that would be the best option. If not, hopefully it will be added soon.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*For those of you who have had their units updated to 144 and would like to revert to an earlier version and block future upgrades, hang on for a bit before reimaging. I have developed a method that will allow you to revert without losing your recordings etc. It is going through some final tests, and I will post here when that is done.*
You have my interest peaked.  I'm blocking the 144 release for now, but if the RTV decides to revert to DHCP for some reason (therefore not pointing to Wirns proxy) I could easily unwillingly get the new software, so having an easy method to revert back will be much appreciated.


----------



## MIS-Man

I can confirm that the software is in full release. I am in no customer group that would have asked for any fixes, etc... I got it in all 4 units today.


If the software fix that was mentioned does not work, I have another way that DOES work for getting CA and IVS back, but it takes about 15 minutes of work and does require some PC knowledge. I'll wait to see if an easier way crops up, but if you have multiple units and an older one you will know what I am talking about.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*For those of you who have had their units updated to 144 and would like to revert to an earlier version and block future upgrades, hang on for a bit before reimaging. I have developed a method that will allow you to revert without losing your recordings etc. It is going through some final tests, and I will post here when that is done.*
j.m. Sounds like you may be on to something good!


I miss the good old days with CA and IVS running on my 5504s, no Wirns layered between the RTV's and the mothership, no reboots, little worry about new software doing what 144 did....


Even if reimaging turns out to be necessary, it sure would be nice to not lose the recordings.


There are a lot of people who appreciate your (and others) ongoing efforts to engineer an effective workaround. I thank you and so do the right arrow keys on my remotes.


----------



## Skeptic

Since there does not appear to be a reasonable short-term fix in sight, I've ordered a 5040. Can I just take the 250GB drive, loaded with shows, out of my 5504 and plop it into the 5040 without any problem? It's my impression that I can, but I'm not sure.


Thanks.


Dave


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Skeptic_
*Can I just take the 250GB drive, loaded with shows, out of my 5504 and plop it into the 5040 without any problem?*
Yes, provided the 5040 has either lifetime or monthly activation. It'll need to connect to verify activation. If it's not activated, it won't do anything until it is activated. Activation is tied to the motherboard.


----------



## Skeptic

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*Yes, provided the 5040 has either lifetime or monthly activation.*
Should I activate 1st before swapping drives then? What would happen if I swapped into an unactivated unit? Whould shows get deleted, etc?


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Skeptic_
*Should I activate 1st before swapping drives then?*
Doesn't matter, although it'll speed things up when you do the swap. (If it's not activated yet, it won't let you do anything until it is. If it is activated before the swap, it'll want to connect to verify activation before it lets you do anything.)


Recorded shows remain intact if you swap. The only thing that would wipe them out would be a factory reset.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by Skeptic_
*Can I just take the 250GB drive, loaded with shows, out of my 5504 and plop it into the 5040 without any problem? It's my impression that I can, but I'm not sure.

Dave*
After you complete the HDD transplant, could you please report the results back to this thread?


Just to be safe, I assume that you're going to download all your shows (or at least the important ones) from the 5504 to DVArchive. Right?


----------



## adone36

It's only been done a few thousand times already.


----------



## j.m.

For those of you who have ReplayTV(s) that have been upgraded to 144 and would like to revert to your previous software build, what follows is a way to do that without losing your recordings etc. There are a few caveats:


1) Do NOT use this method unless you are SURE your ReplayTV software has been upgraded from one build to another. When the ReplayTV downloads new software, it maintains a copy of the version you were running immediately prior to the upgrade in case something goes wrong. This method tricks the ReplayTV into booting to that older copy. Obviously, if there is no older copy (for instance if the ReplayTV shipped with the newest software), this procedure will fail such that a re-image will be required.


2) As mentioned above, this method will cause a reversion to whatever software build your ReplayTV was running prior to the build 144 upgrade, be it build 19, 140, etc. If you want to revert to a build other than the last one your ReplayTV booted before 144, then you are going to have to re-image with that build.


3) You will probably want to use this information in conjuntion with the 2 blocking methods mentioned in this thread--i.e. the WiRNS NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin and the DisableSoftwareDownload regedit value to prevent future upgrades. Also, note that these methods may become ineffective at some point.

*DISCLAIMER. Warning! This procedure, while tested successfully on a few ReplayTVs (YMMV, of course), does involve some degree of risk. Please understand that if something goes wrong, you will likely have to re-image your ReplayTV's hard drive--losing all recordings etc. Moreover, while unlikely, it is possible that this procedure could render your ReplayTV permanently inoperable. I will not be held responsible for any damage caused by the use or misuse of this information. Use at your own risk!*


If after reading the above you are still comfortable proceeding, the instructions are as follows:


1) Add the following commands to your shellcmds file (as documented elsewhere):
Code:


Code:


cdsys
mv boot.state boot.state.bak

2) Run WIRNS and GetShellCommands (as documented elsewhere) and net connect with the ReplayTV for which you would like the software to revert. If you have other ReplayTVs on your network that you do NOT want to revert, make sure that they aren't configured to connect via WiRNS (or simply disconnect their ethernet cables while you are doing this). Otherwise, they could net connect during this time and be downgraded as well.


3) *Once the net connect completes, SHUTDOWN WiRNS. Remove the two commands above from your "shellcmds" file before continuing to use WiRNS. If you fail to do so, the next time the ReplayTV net connects will be its last until you re-image the drive.*


4) Reboot your ReplayTV. When it boots up, check 411-zones, and you should see that you are running whatever build you had prior to the build 144 upgrade.


Explanation of the procedure: the "cdsys" command automatically changes to whatever sys directory the ReplayTV is currently running from (i.e. sys1 or sys2). The "mv boot.state boot.state.bak" command renames a file critical to the boot process, which causes the ReplayTV to think the current software is corrupt and revert to the backup on the next reboot. I should note here that during the successful tests I mentioned above the "boot.state" file was completely removed (instead of just renamed) by using "rm boot.state" instead. While either should work, I believe it is probably a bit safer to rename the file; however, it is your choice. Again, I am not responsible if something goes wrong.


Good luck!


----------



## RChobby

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*For those of you who have ReplayTV(s) that have been upgraded to 144

............*
Neat! j.m., thank you for the help!


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*Neat! J.M., the replaytv you tried with this.......did it still do the frequent reboots (daily)?*
The testing was actually done by another party since I don't have a 55xx; however, that person reports that with the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin in use (which is still required even with after reversion) daily reboots do not seem to occur--although it is too early to be 100% sure.


----------



## moyekj

Great work j.m.! A big time/hassle saver for those who wish to revert. Do you know if there are "cdsys1" and "cdsys2" commands available (or perhaps "cdsys 1" or "cdsys 2")? If they do exist it perhaps would be a little safer to specify which partition to clobber in case one forgets to remove the lines from the shellcmds file after 1 net connect. I can already imagine at least 1 person trying this will forget that crucial step despite the bold letter step 3) warning.


I can confirm for sure no reboots if you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll Wirns plugin and delete the registry setting for no software download.


----------



## bkushner

If anyone wonders why Digital Networks wiped the CA and IVS from the 5500's take a look at Ebay. People are dumping their 5500 like mad and buying 5000. I myself dumped two 4 week old 5532's for 5040's.


This should help DN dump all those 5040 refurbs they are sitting on.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Great work j.m.! A big time/hassle saver for those who wish to revert. Do you know if there are "cdsys1" and "cdsys2" commands available (or perhaps "cdsys 1" or "cdsys 2")? If they do exist it perhaps would be a little safer to specify which partition to clobber in case one forgets to remove the lines from the shellcmds file after 1 net connect. I can already imagine at least 1 person trying this will forget that crucial step despite the bold letter step 3) warning.
*
I know. I thought about this. While there are no commands like you mention, I could have included a "cd" plus the full path to sys1/sys2. However, this introduces another variable. Namely, the person will have to edit the "cd" shell command to include whichever of sys1 or sys2 is NOT shown in 411-zones. People will invariably mess that up also. I don't know whether they would mess that up less than the method I posted. Either way, failure to follow instructions will lead to problems (i.e. a re-image).


----------



## Joann

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Like many (most?) users I didn't bother to check into this until I'd already received the software upgrade. Our first clue that something was amiss was that we suddenly found ourselves manually skipping commercials again. You experts are fantastic! The fix works exactly as described.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Either way, failure to follow instructions will lead to problems (i.e. a re-image).*
In which case, if they did not read carefully, the fault is their's. You DID warn them....


----------



## jones07

Sh!t happens


----------



## icecow

Let it be said..

A smart newbie wont try this for a few weeks... ..let the brainiacs be the guinne pigs. In a few weeks all will be transparent.


----------



## drWaLLs

Just got service pack 2 and now the wirns method wont let me net connect.. any suggestions?


----------



## chain777

First thing I'd try is disabling the firewall. SP2 turns on the firewall by default.


----------



## moyekj

So can someone with a 50xx with the new software installed please make an image available? It would be nice to confirm MIS-MANs findings that a 50xx image with new software on a 55xx preserves CA/IVS following a net-connect. If this is indeed the case that would be the best way to get CA/IVS on a 55xx that doesn't require sticking with the old software and either living with frequent reboots or having to net-connect through a proxy.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*So can someone with a 50xx with the new software installed please make an image available? It would be nice to confirm MIS-MANs findings that a 50xx image with new software on a 55xx preserves CA/IVS following a net-connect. If this is indeed the case that would be the best way to get CA/IVS on a 55xx that doesn't require sticking with the old software and either living with frequent reboots or having to net-connect through a proxy.*
I thought l8er's tests in the other thread had debunked MIS-MANs findings (which I expected). Unless the mothership is doing some real trickery, the software on a 50xx and 55xx is still exactly the same even with build 144. I know because I have compared the b144 "_Manifest" files from each, and they are exactly the same. (This file lists the files to be downloaded for the new software and their location on the ReplayTV server.) MIS-MAN has not yet returned to his thread to address these reports; but I suspect that if/when he does we will find that he was mistaken. Also, since build 144 contains a new shell command "getmodel" along with a few exported functions related to returning the model number, I have a pretty good idea that is the new determining factor for CA/IVS in 144.


----------



## moyekj

Yeah, I figured it was too easy to be true... good to see someone has debunked the findings and I wonder what MIS-MAN was smoking? Looks like the software block is the only viable solution then for sure. Guess there is not much else to be done on this front.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*It would be nice to confirm MIS-MANs findings that a 50xx image with new software on a 55xx preserves CA/IVS following a net-connect.*
If you look in the other thread, I have now confirmed that moving a build 144 drive from a 50XX to a 55XX has CA and IVS disabled upon boot up, with no connection to the network. MIS-Man is either flat out wrong, terribly confused or both. No net connect is necessary to disable the features, they're disabled at boot up.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*Looks like the software block is the only viable solution*
It's not a bad solution. Using WiRNS and shellcmds to return to the previous build, and then the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll, the ReplayTV does not try to download new builds, nor does it want to reboot daily.


----------



## adone36

Like I said, a billion posts ago, Bld 143 is the cat's meow. One of the people who was given 143 after complaining should get it off the drive before 145 or whatever comes out and wipes it out.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by icecow_
*Let it be said..

A smart newbie wont try this for a few weeks... ..let the brainiacs be the guinea pigs. In a few weeks all will be transparent.*
This unsmart newbie thought he'd give it a shot and use one of his 144 5504's to try the "cure". Well, after I fried one of the two 40GB drives in the unit (apparently from some flailing with the IP settings on the way to the Wirns connection), I had to do the re-image thing on the remaining good drive....a good excuse for an upgrade to a single 250GB. Fortunately, I was not so unsmart that I didn't archive the important shows before I began the process.


The good news is that after I let the 190 version get updated to 144, J.M.'s very clever "restore software to previous version" procedure worked flawlessly. And it allowed the CA and IVS features to come back thru Wirns. Furthermore, a test recording I made prior to the "treatment" was not lost in the software downgrade.


Changing back the network settings to point to my router (not the Wirns IP address), returned the system to normal (taking Wirns and my PC completely out of the loop).


As expected, every time I initiate a connection to the mothership, the new software attempts to install, reboots, but does not actually get installed. I can live with this.


Would be even cooler if MIS-MANs findings that 50XX-144 images on 55xx's may do it all....except for retaining recorded shows and the re-imaging hassles.


Another good reason to take icecow's advice and maybe hang in there a little longer.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*Would be even cooler if MIS-MANs findings that 50XX-144 images on 55xx's may do it all*
HIs "findings" are not based in reality.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*It's not a bad solution. Using WiRNS and shellcmds to return to the previous build, and then the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll, the ReplayTV does not try to download new builds, nor does it want to reboot daily.*
Agree it's the best available solution - though having to net-connect through a proxy is less than ideal, especially if one has no need for other features that Wirns can provide. I'm living with it now by manually running a script daily to force a net-connect through Wirns since I don't want a computer running 24/7 with the proxy, but the hand-holding probably will get old after a while. So now we just need that elusive volunteer to provide an internet-accessible server running Wirns with the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin.


----------



## doublecheck

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*... since build 144 contains a new shell command "getmodel" along with a few exported functions related to returning the model number, I have a pretty good idea that is the new determining factor for CA/IVS in 144.*
Seems likely. I wonder if it would be practical to replace the "getmodel" shell command, with a dummy version that returns what we want it to return. And if such replacement would have the desired effect...


DC


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*So now we just need that elusive volunteer to provide an internet-accessible server running Wirns with the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin.*
As you're aware, this may not be the ideal solution either. For one thing, if that server goes down, what happens to all the 55xx's that depend on it?


So, besides the several minutes a day that the "NoSoftwareUpdate" units spend off-line downloading the new software in futility and then rebooting, are there any other downsides to this fix over using a Wirns server to run the dll?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by doublecheck_
*Seems likely. I wonder if it would be practical to replace the "getmodel" shell command, with a dummy version that returns what we want it to return. And if such replacement would have the desired effect...
*
Well, assuming that my theory is correct, that is really where the road ends in trying to find a solution with 144 (as opposed to downgrading/blocking methods). You see, the ReplayTV executable modules are protected against modification by el gamal signatures. This effectively makes it impossible to do what you suggest.


----------



## johnmagee4

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Well, assuming that my theory is correct, that is really where the road ends in trying to find a solution with 144 (as opposed to downgrading/blocking methods). You see, the ReplayTV executable modules are protected against modification by el gamal signatures. This effectively makes it impossible to do what you suggest.*
Any estimate how long this would take to break? If you put every member of this forum's computer to use (a la distributed.net) then maybe it could be done in a reasonable amount of time. This is assuming they didn't use some kind of large key. I'm also not familiar with el gamal other than that I've heard of it.


Yes. I realize this is not a realistic suggestion.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_

[BSo, besides the several minutes a day that the "NoSoftwareUpdate" units spend off-line downloading the new software in futility and then rebooting, are there any other downsides to this fix over using a Wirns server to run the dll? [/b]
Assuming you mean the "DisableSoftwareDownload" regedit value, the downside is that if ReplayTV was so inclined it could either change that back to 0 during a net connect or release new software that ignores it completely. Using the "NoSoftwareUpdate.dll" plugin with WiRNS is much safer in this regard.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by johnmagee4_
*Any estimate how long this would take to break? If you put every member of this forum's computer to use (a la distributed.net) then maybe it could be done in a reasonable amount of time. This is assuming they didn't use some kind of large key. I'm also not familiar with el gamal other than that I've heard of it.


Yes. I realize this is not a realistic suggestion.*
Someone posted an estimate back during the ReplayTV bankruptcy scare (i.e. before ReplayTV was purchased by D&M), but I can't remember what it was. It was fantastically long, however. Also, unless ReplayTV does go under at some point, even if it could be done, I personally don't think this is something that *should* be done since it has other implications besides this.


----------



## Skeptic

Other getmodel suggestions (from someone completely ignorant of RTV internals):


OK. The code modules are immutable.

1) Can other modules be added? Can a "Wedge" be inserted to substitute the handling of the getmodel command?

2) the Getmodel command is assumed to be S/N based. Is there anyone with an emulator or who has socketed the flash who could try alternate serial numbers to see if this theory is correct? If the flash also contains a model code, perhaps a module could be writeen that wold toggle this code?


I've been involved with embedded sytems for a long time, and these are some of the things I have seen done. I have no idea if they are applicable to this product.


Dave


----------



## Jeff D

Skeptic, both of those won't work.


1) because of the protection mentioned above you can't get a wedge in if you can't change anything. Much like the old jump to my subroutine execute my code return back to your code tricks of cracking copy protection on games way back... this is different.

2) You can't mess with the flash either as it's also protected, at least the part you are talking about is... no dice


----------



## Skeptic

A little off topic, but how do people know that a new command is added or what registry keys are? Is the executable in plaintext, but protected against changes by a "super-checksum", or are these things actually encrpted to prevent broswing/disassembly?


Is the code to "check the checksum" also in the box? Seems like it could be bypassed before it can take over things (yes, my hacking/cracking experience ended with the Commodore 64 - I guess it shows)


Dave


----------



## mikek

I have a 5500 series and it still hasn't updated. Is this normal or did I somehow get lucky and my machine won't update?


I am thinking about putting in that software update blocker. I guess I can just wait and see when my CA and IVS disappear and I'll try to revert it back.


I just got my father-in-law a 5516 and he loved the CA. 3 days later it was gone. It was the main feature he liked over Tivo. Oh well, you know that right arrow seems to work pretty well. -mk


----------



## bkushner

Well my 5532 just lost CA and IVS and I'm ONLY connecting via WIRNS??? It still says verison 190 September 2003???? What the hell happened? How do I get my CA and IVS back?


----------



## jlv

Quote:

_Originally posted by Skeptic_
*2) the Getmodel command is assumed to be S/N based.*
That is not necessarily a correct assumption.


----------



## bkushner

I am confirming, I have lost CA and IVS while connecting via WIRNS with the NOSOFTWAREUPDATE plugin and cannot put the CA and IVS back. Unit did not upgrade software, yet the my CA and IVA we zapped?


----------



## adone36

So the software did't update, but they now have the mothership resetting the registry entries.


----------



## bkushner

That is what it seems like. I rebooted and everything and I"m still on version 190 from Sept.


----------



## blacknoi

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Well my 5532 just lost CA and IVS and I'm ONLY connecting via WIRNS??? It still says verison 190 September 2003???? What the hell happened? How do I get my CA and IVS back?*
Oh thats BAD news!!


As said elsewhere, apparently the mother ship is changing the registry values back EVERY NIGHT and it has nothing to do with the software version.


They are just deciding to do the check after every connect regardless of model. Theoretically, they could/should have done this from the beginning.


Still upset about it though, since my 5504 now lost its CA capability. My fiance loved that! At least my 5040 still has it. I think I have to go to Ebay STAT and get a another 5040 before its too late.


----------



## bkushner

Hold everything, I have CA and IVS back. I tried a second time to use the shell cmds with the registry tweaks and it put the features back. Does anyone have a read on what just happened? What would cause the machine to lose the CA and IVS after a net connect and then be able to get them back? Am I going to have to leave the registry tweaks for IVS and CA in there for every mothership contact?


----------



## blacknoi

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Hold everything, I have CA and IVS back. I tried a second time to use the shell cmds with the registry tweaks and it put the features back. Does anyone have a read on what just happened? What would cause the machine to lose the CA and IVS after a net connect and then be able to get them back? Am I going to have to leave the registry tweaks for IVS and CA in there for every mothership contact?*
no no no wait a second...


I want you to NOT use WiRNS now, and do a regular net connect straight to the internet / mothership.


If what you said is true, you'll lose the IVS/CA again.


Try it and post the results.


----------



## bkushner

Yeah right, so I can get the software update for sure?


----------



## RChobby

I'm seeing a similar thing. Lost CA and IVS, but still says 190 build. Not running WiRNS 24/7, but I did do the registry change to try and block the software update.


----------



## dfjkl

Maybe IVS being down the other day was really a software upgrade on the IVS server. Who knows....


----------



## RChobby

So if I want to revert to the "original" state and allow the new software.......

what are the shell commands?


regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 0

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 0

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 0


Are those correct to let the 5504 be "original"?


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by RChobby_
*So if I want to revert to the "original" state and allow the new software.......

what are the shell commands?


regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 0

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 0

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 0


Are those correct to let the 5504 be "original"?*
3rd one should be:

regedit delete SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Yeah right, so I can get the software update for sure?*
Connect WITH NoSoftwareUpdate.dll in place but WITHOUT GetShellCommands.dll in place, and this will suffice for a test while preventing the software upgrade.


----------



## bkushner

Whenever I connect via Wirns with the nosoftwareupdate I don't get the new software but my CA and IVS is knocked out. The only way to keep it is to do the registry tweak each contact in addtion to the nosoftware.dll. They definitely did something.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Whenever I connect via Wirns with the nosoftwareupdate I don't get the new software but my CA and IVS is knocked out. The only way to keep it is to do the registry tweak each contact in addtion to the nosoftware.dll. They definitely did something.*
I had expected this to happen a long time ago. They are serious about this matter it seems. I guess you 55xx owners will have to hope you can stay the course with software


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*3rd one should be:

regedit delete SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload*
Actually ALL three should be

regedit delete


those other variables don't exist in a stock 5500, there are even other ones that exist on the 5k line.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*If ReplayTV really wants to end all of this, the engineers should just add some must-have feature(s) to 145 and release it. With compelling enough reasons, people will upgrade.*
They can also just annoy you into upgrading by changing the parameters

to vtime2.pl to include your serial # and refusing to confirm the time unless

you use the new form of vtime2.pl. They can send you a system message

if vtime2.pl is still using the old format and encourage you to upgrade.

Eventually the clock drift will annoy you enough to upgrade.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*They can also just annoy you into upgrading by changing the parameters

to vtime2.pl to include your serial # and refusing to confirm the time unless

you use the new form of vtime2.pl. They can send you a system message

if vtime2.pl is still using the old format and encourage you to upgrade.

Eventually the clock drift will annoy you enough to upgrade.*
Shh... I was trying to encourage a solution that would be mutually beneficial. We get fun new features, and they get CA/IVS disabled on all 55xx units. When they do what you suggest instead, we are all going to blame you.


----------



## Jeff D

That would require that there are actually engineers working on the 5k software... =)


----------



## xboxing

This suckss!!! I also just lost CA and IVS. I'm confirming what bkushner is going through. I guess if I want to use CA I'll just watch it through the laptop using DVA and VideoLan. Thanks to moyekj.


----------



## bkushner

Another problem is whatever you have in RECEIVED is gone when you come back. I assume it's disabling first then the shell cmd is reenabling but you lose your RECEIVED programs and also you lose anything your sending. I just can't understand why they are so adament about this. It can't be legal. Surely they can't be held accountable for the handful of people modifying their boxes to still get CA and AVS. They has to alternative reasoning unless they are just having fun watching us fumble.


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by xboxing_
*This suckss!!! I also just lost CA and IVS. I'm confirming what bkushner is going through. I guess if I want to use CA I'll just watch it through the laptop using DVA and VideoLan. Thanks to moyekj.*
How do you get CA in DVA?


----------



## bkushner

This kind of crap I suspect could have DNN a little pissed.

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...718151703&rd=1


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*This kind of crap I suspect could have DNN a little pissed.

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...718151703&rd=1 *


I looked at some other items the guy sells and saw this:
http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...tem=3744969095 


item#3744969095


selling a ugly digital picture for a dollar? weird

guess it's a talk piece and a cheap way of telling the people in your life you don't negotiate


----------



## dfjkl

I've not been noticing the lost IVS/CA on my 5504, but then again, I've never removed the shellcmds from modding it....so that could be what is keeping it alive. I've not lost any of my received programs or transfers either.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*This kind of crap I suspect could have DNN a little pissed.

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...718151703&rd=1 *
forum filters butsted your link...


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*forum filters butsted your link...*
But it's not too hard to figure out what got replaced by *****.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*How do you get CA in DVA?*
Do a search on "videolan commerical advance".


----------



## jones07

Quote:

_Originally posted by blacknoi_
*Oh thats BAD news!!


Still upset about it though, since my 5504 now lost its CA capability. My fiance loved that! At least my 5040 still has it. I think I have to go to Ebay STAT and get a another 5040 before its too late.*
What do you mean by................"before its too late" ?


----------



## rbolen70

Ethereal shows this right after the mothership verifies activation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HTTP/1.1 200 OK

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:23:20 GMT

Server: Apache/1.3.20 (Unix) mod_perl/1.26..Content-Length: 593

Content-Type: text/plain


regedit setval Software/Apps/PauseAds PrimaryDelay 30

regedit setval Software/Apps/PauseAds SecondaryDelay 300

regedit setval Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/PauseAds Delay 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/PauseAds EnablePauseAd 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/PauseAds Enabled 1

regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 0

regedit setval Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 0

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 0

regedit setval Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/Internet InternetEnabled 0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't remember seeing these 2 keys prior to the software upgrade:


Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 0

Software/Apps/Net/ShellCommandState/Internet InternetEnabled 0


Oh. btw.. The workaround is wonderful.. I was missing CA!






These shell commands from the mothership do not depend on the version. I am back down to 530510190 and still see them if I sniff from my WiRNS box to P.RP.NET


----------



## repnewbie

^^^^^ By the workaround, you mean running the shell commands again right after a net connect?


----------



## rbolen70

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*^^^^^ By the workaround, you mean running the shell commands again right after a net connect?*
By reverting to the previous software.. (several pages back in this thread).


----------



## Jeff D

I think it's funny that the seller of that ebay item pulled the listing as soon as they heard the news.


I'm still amazed that people are making money off the hard work folks around here do...


I can say I do have a fix to some of the problems here, but.... as you can guess they aren't going to be public anytime soon.


----------



## bradbomb

As the original thread starter that made the whole CA/IVS on 55xxs public with the accidental not resetting after imaging a drive, it was great while it lasted, and also an apology to those who had previously figured it out, but didnt make it public for reasons that became clear last week.


But the sort of silver lining in this whole thing is that DNNA is doing something with the ReplayTVs, because if they really weren't at all interested in the line anymore, why come out with a software update at all. Hopefully, we see enhancements soon.


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by bradbomb_
*why come out with a software update at all.*
They were kind of committed to getting CC working because it's SUPPOSED to work. Then with all the talk here about circumventing the 55xx limitations, they probably ran a little scared about possible legal hassles.


I don't think it's worth the risk of DNNA blocking some of the cool open features of Replays just to give unauthorized features to newbies.


Sell the 5540 for $60 and buy a 5040 for $75 and get rid of the hassle altogether.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by bradbomb_
*As the original thread starter that made the whole CA/IVS on 55xxs public with the accidental not resetting after imaging a drive, it was great while it lasted, and also an apology to those who had previously figured it out, but didnt make it public for reasons that became clear last week.


But the sort of silver lining in this whole thing is that DNNA is doing something with the ReplayTVs, because if they really weren't at all interested in the line anymore, why come out with a software update at all. Hopefully, we see enhancements soon.*
Or maybe the latest software was just a clever way for the DNNA merchandise manager to empty out a lot of their 50xx units. Let's see:


"We've got tons of 50xx's sitting in the warehouse. How can we get another $300 (or at least $13/month) plus whatever we can sell them for? Well, we've got a lot of fringe 55xx users who are now hooked on CA or IVS. Let's take these features away from them when we do the closed caption software update. I'm sure they'll try to find a workaround to get CA and IVS back on their 55xx's...and may even figure something out. But a lot of them won't want to bother or worry that the fix will only be temporary. And for those, we have an obvious solution to their problem....and ours."


----------



## adone36

Except the vast majority of sales are to clueless newbies, so your theory is a waste of time.


----------



## icecow

It would be a good theory if it affected a great bulk instead of relatively few.


It could be argued that even a few is good because every edge counts.

However I'd never do something like that for a small edge. It's something that could somehow blow up in yer face.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Except the vast majority of sales are to clueless newbies, so your theory is a waste of time.*
Perhaps you're right about my speculation. Personally, I generally consider reading forums as a time-wasting, but often informative or entertaining indulgence. And thanks to some very knowledgeable contributors, I've learned a lot from this one.


Regarding my speculation, consider why anyone would choose to buy an "obsolete" 50xx in todays marketplace. Some may be clueless newbies who can't pass up a good deal, but probably less than you think. It would seem that selling the unenlightened on the benefits of a new feature (like CA or IVS) is a lot harder than convincing those already converted...and perhaps addicted to one of these features, that it's worth keeping.


This thread now has over 17,000 hits in two weeks. To me this indicates that there's a lot of interest in retaining the CA and/or IVS features lost in the recent software update.


It may be interesting to compare recent sales trends and prices for 5040's and 5504's on ebay versus a couple of weeks ago.


Also may be interesting to get comments from those reading this thread regarding their thoughts or deeds regarding the purchase of a 50xx unit to replace a 55xx.


The Wirns tricks do work, but many consider them awkward and vulnerable to future updates from DNNA.


----------



## icecow

I've always wanted to know how it calculated the hits.


----------



## adone36

"this indicates that there's a lot of interest in retaining the CA and/or IVS features lost in the recent software update."


The boxes are identical and SB agreed to remove the features for LEGAL reasons on new production. You seem annoyed that your "rights" to restore them are being blocked, but you have no such rights.


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*Maybe it's time to take this talk underground? I think the next development should be kept quite.


I'm all for sharing, but in this case it had a negative result. Next time no one talks. 


We need a secret handshake.*


and


Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*Well, the regedit "fix" could be wiped out in about 12 seconds by DNNA. I wouldn't rely on that method. The better (or best) option would be wirns, if only someone had a server we could all use! =)*


kickin' myself... we should have kept quiet. :?


At least my 5500s are headless boxes and the 5k boxes are at the TVs. So... I've still got what I want. =)


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*"this indicates that there's a lot of interest in retaining the CA and/or IVS features lost in the recent software update."


The boxes are identical and SB agreed to remove the features for LEGAL reasons on new production. You seem annoyed that your "rights" to restore them are being blocked, but you have no such rights.*
You may be right on the "no legal right" to do this, but... you aren't so correct on the legal reason SB did what they did. It's been ruled that CA is legal, or at least legal enough that the networks chose to drop the case. (Do I remember this right?) Seems odd that DNNA must do all they can to preseve the CA free boxes, when legally they have every right to.


Oh, or maybe they don't. I think I just figured out the reason why lawyers would want this done... it's sooooo simple. Licensing, maybe DNNA didn't license the CA software for use on the 5.5k line. This has got to be why.


----------



## hilbert1862

I still cannot understand why the EFF had the hubris to persuade 5 owners to seek an ill-considered declaratory judgement re CA. Re IVS, I can see the concern re a copyright issue, but what law says that a viewer has no right to choose not watch part of a transmission, or to purchase or license a product that does it for him ? I think that linking CA to the IVS busines is the most foolish (to put it politely) piece of legal work that I have ever seen.


So here we are. But since the settlement in that action is not public, we do not know what View Sonic Blue agreed to re CA. Are they realy obligated to take affirmative steps to prevent owners of certain RTV units from using CA? Or are they simply obligated to cease manufacturing units that have CA? (I (we?) do not know. Or do we?


Also, since CA is patented, RTV cannot tie up the use of the patent to the exclusion of others willing to license it. Especially if it ceases to use the patent.


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by Jeff D_
*You may be right on the "no legal right" to do this, but... you aren't so correct on the legal reason SB did what they did. It's been ruled that CA is legal, or at least legal enough that the networks chose to drop the case. (Do I remember this right?) Seems odd that DNNA must do all they can to preserve the CA free boxes, when legally they have every right to.
*
The way I remember it is that a few 4xxx owners went to court and won. Those owners can never be sued. Then the EFF took a case to the court to resolve the whole issue. The court rejected taking the case saying the Media Companies said they had no intention of suing people. EFF argued intention means nothing. The court disagreed and rejected the case.


So in my mind no one is safe. Time has passed and the media companies could say 'we had no intention then but we do now that the problem is escalating' (which was EFF's point).


Whether they do or not I have no idea. I'd think it unlikely. On the other hand it might be easy prey if media companies think they could use it as a president.


IVS would be the attackable element.


The courts recently ruled that kazaa/grogster type p2p are not responsible for patent infringments: the users are! (that would apply to IVS users I'd think). They ruled that way because kazaa/grogster type p2p networks have no control over the users. The ruling did not apply to centralized distribution software like old Napster, Audiogalaxy (oh how I miss audiogalaxy), and seemingly the ReplayTV servers.


So by my assessment neither DNNA or IVS users are safe. Just like the movie 'Jaws'


----------



## mikek

My 5500 lost CA and IVS, but I still have the old software (019). I did a 411 zones and noticed that the unit has not rebooted in almost 2 days, but CA and IVS are gone. I definitely had CA and IVS last night. Now I got this worthless input button back. -mk


----------



## Jeff D

mikek, your issue has been addressed, most recently in my post 3 or 4 posts back.


----------



## repnewbie

So just to be clear, IVS and CA can be reenabled via WIRNS but a net connect to the mothership will knock out these features even though the shell command will prevent the new software from being applied? So the way to do this would be to net connect, run the commands, get back CA and IVS, disconnect internet connection for at least 10 days and then net connect again for new guide info and ultimately run the shell commands again to put back IVS and CA?


----------



## hilbert1862

I'm not certain, but I believe that there were five owners who went to court, and I think that they were represented by an EFF attorney, who name I saw on the eeb. However, that story (on the web) might be incorrect (I'll check it later). Neverthless, if they won, they "won" by settlement, since there is no idication that it went to trial and judgment. The settlement must have been approved by the court (unles the action was withdrawn beforee the settlement took effect. In any event, since there is no published decision, thee is no precedent (sorrry, not "president").


So, as I was saying, where is the law against CA?


----------



## icecow

no there was no law against CA


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*I'm not certain, but I believe that there were five owners who went to court, and I think that they were represented by an EFF attorney, who name I saw on the eeb. However, that story (on the web) might be incorrect (I'll check it later). Neverthless, if they won, they "won" by settlement, since there is no idication that it went to trial and judgment. The settlement must have been approved by the court (unles the action was withdrawn beforee the settlement took effect. In any event, since there is no published decision, thee is no precedent (sorrry, not "president").


So, as I was saying, where is the law against CA?*
My reading of what happened was:

1) studios sued

2) lots of back and forth

3) sonicblue was about to go bankrupt (many reasons besides CA and

IVS), decides to get rid of CA and IVS (everyone can speculate why,

private agreement, pretty up the line for auction, etc.)

4) studios' goal of getting rid of CA and IVS accomplished

5) studios felt risk of declaratory judgment against them was too great

6) studios settle with 5 owners giving them permission to use CA and IVS

7) judge dismisses suit since the 5 owners can now use CA and IVS and new

products do not have CA and IVS, so there is nothing to litigate.

8) the court denied class action status which was the nail in the coffin for the

EFF efforts. For whatever reason, court did not want to take an activist role

on this issue, and allow for class action status. In most cases they don't

take an activist role so it isn't surprising class action was denied, but it was

definitely disappointing for the numerous people wanting the issue to be

tested and ruled upon.

http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/Newmark_v_Turner/ 


We really don't know what would have happened if it went forward and

there is nobody suing right now (on either side) Obviously there was some

risk it would go against the studios or they would have pushed forward and

not allowed the 5 users to use the features.


I don't buy the argument they settled with the 5 users to save money

(which is a major reason why normal rational people would settle),

because it would have saved them more money in the long run for them

to have won and been able to use that for future cases or to use as a

psychological deterrent.


----------



## DarkScreen

Here's what the 5000 series manual says about CA:

_"....commercial advance technology that is protected by U.S. patents and other intellectual property, including AD Little Commercial Advance patents nos. 5,333,091; 5,692,093 and 5,696,866. Commercial Advance is a registered trademark of SRT, Inc. A Jerry Iggulden invention licensed in association with Arthur D. Little Enterprises, Inc."_


CA is a legitimate technology that's been used for at least 6 years in VCRs (I have many of them) and still available in at least one current model from Panasonic. Over the years, RCA, JVC, GoVideo, Radio Shack and others built VCRs with CA (and Movie Advance...which automatically scanned thru the movie previews on movie rental tapes).


Undoubtedly, ReplayTVs sold with CA had a legal license to use this feature for the life of the product. 55xx series units were not among these (unless Sonic Blue had a broad license agreement that included them by default, which is very unlikely). So any individual who enables this feature on a 55xx unit is using a technology that they're probably not entitled to. Kind of like using commercial software that you copied from a friend.


Once DNNA became aware of this, they may have had some legal duty to take reasonable steps to stop people from using unlicensed technology on their products. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just speculating here.


In the wishful thinking category: I, for one, would be happy to pay a reasonable license fee to A.D. Little Enterprises to legally enable the CA feature on my 5504s.


----------



## gsulliva

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*Sell the 5540 for $60 and buy a 5040 for $75 and get rid of the hassle altogether.*


I like my CA, so I went and bought a 5080 to replace my now not so useful 5504. I have one word about the 50xx series.


LOUD!! is that a cooling fan or a jet engine in my bedroom now. So much for sleeping. Maybe losing CA is better than losing sleep, how do you guys use a 50xx in a bedroom.


----------



## Creech

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*I like my CA, so I went and bought a 5080 to replace my now not so useful 5504. I have one word about the 50xx series.


LOUD!! is that a cooling fan or a jet engine in my bedroom now. So much for sleeping. Maybe losing CA is better than losing sleep, how do you guys use a 50xx in a bedroom.*
Its in my closet.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by DarkScreen_
*

In the wishful thinking category: I, for one, would be happy to pay a reasonable license fee to A.D. Little Enterprises to legally enable the CA feature on my 5504s. *
I hear that! I know they would never do it, but wouldn't it be cool if you could add these features as an option now for a fee? I'd do it for a reasonable price.


I'm currently in limbo as to deciding what to actually do with my units. They have succeeded in making it a hassle to continue to use both CA and IVS, as I'm sure that's their goal. At some point you have to decide if the hassle is worth it. While I love both features, it's become increasingly more work to keep them.


The way I see it, since they hold all the cards, they'll pretty much be able to one up anything we do since I'm sure they read the forums. I guess I'm rehashing how Jeff [D] feels about keeping things quiet. When word first got out about CA & IVS working on the 55xx Series units (thanks Bradbomb!) , it started on the downlow (as far as doing it without re-imaging). Clues were out there, but everything was happening via PM and email for the most part. After being helped myself via PM, I know I helped many other people via PM and email. Anyway, I started feeling a little uneasy when I started seeing the how-to posts. The less exposure the better IMHO.


I'm sure the RTSI [RTV Tech Savvy Individuals] (you know who you are - and I thank you) can probably overcome any effort DNNA puts forth. But the only way it's going to succeed is if they don't know what you're doing. Again I find myself in agreement with Jeff. Is that a bad thing?!?!? 


Oh well, what can ya do? I still love my RTV's with or without CA and IVS.


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*They have succeeded in making it a hassle to continue to use both CA and IVS, as I'm sure that's their goal. At some point you have to decide if the hassle is worth it. While I love both features, it's become increasingly more work to keep them.*
They have "succeeded" in giving you exactly what you bought.


This is like the thief who complains when he returns to the house he cased only to find they put in better locks.


The carrying on is really quite unbelievable.


----------



## xebikr

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*This is like the thief who complains when he returns to the house he cased only to find they put in better locks.*
Actually, it is more like finding secret rooms in a house that you've purchased, only to find that the original owner keeps locking you out of them.


Really, the number of times the 'theif' strawman pops up in copyright discussions is quite unbelievable.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by xebikr_
*Actually, it is more like finding secret rooms in a house that you've purchased, only to find that the original owner keeps locking you out of them.


Really, the number of times the 'theif' strawman pops up in copyright discussions is quite unbelievable.*
Agreed. They are not one and the same. No one is "stealing" anything.


----------



## adone36

The simple fact is that 55xx owners do not have a single leg to stand on in complaining about the changes.


----------



## sfhub

This is America, where you can complain and sue about virtually anything.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*The simple fact is that 55xx owners do not have a single leg to stand on in complaining about the changes.*
Disagree. There is no real need/reason for them to be doing this, in a supposed free country, there is no reason not to have at the very least an opinion about it. This concept that everything we buy is only a "license" is crap. This is a fairly new assanine concept that has come into chic over the last few years. Slap the word "digital" on it, and it's something "new and different" and must be overly regulated, etc., etc. I bought it and paid them handsomely for it, let me do what I will with it. Not hurting anyone.


----------



## adone36

DNNA does not want to be sued and to their credit gave manual CA to 5500s in an end around the agreement. Armchair quarterbacks wouldn't be nearly as tough if they were sued PERSONALLY as some here have over these features. If you wanted those features, you should have bought 50xxs like everyone else.


----------



## cable0

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*DNNA does not want to be sued and to their credit gave manual CA to 5500s in an end around the agreement. Armchair quarterbacks wouldn't be nearly as tough if they were sued PERSONALLY as some here have over these features. If you wanted those features, you should have bought 50xxs like everyone else.*


Sounds like you work for DNNA, using threats like RIAA....


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*They have "succeeded" in giving you exactly what you bought.*
You might want to calm down there a bit buddy. I don't think people are generally pissed off that this is happening. They are just features that we grew to like and were not aware of when we got our 55xx's.


Check out my POST at the beginning of this mess. You'll see that I have no ill will toward DNNA for doing this.

*Quote:*

This is like the thief who complains when he returns to the house he cased only to find they put in better locks.


The carrying on is really quite unbelievable.
Why do you bother wasting your time reading a thread that is simply little or no interest to you? Especially if it seems to effect you so emotionally.


We're not trying to steal anything. If you don't understand that, then perhaps you should start over by reading POST #1 and then work your way back to the end.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_
*They have "succeeded" in giving you exactly what you bought.


This is like the thief who complains when he returns to the house he cased only to find they put in better locks.


The carrying on is really quite unbelievable.*
Your comments are unbelievable , what planet are you from?


Your argument amounts to that if you buy something , anything , a tv , a washing machince anything you have no right to modify it in any manner.


Back in the 50's people used to "supe up" their cars, are you saying the auto manufacters should of sought legal action against those folks.


If you read the warranty on any applience it states any modification of the product will void the warranty it says nothing about the manufacter tracking you an hauling you off to jail.


Now there are sections about reverse engineering, but these are protections against someone modifying the product to obtain service without payment or to prevent the technology being used in another product.


Now wether CA would constitute stealing of service would only occur to the simple minded entertainment execs who even think channel surfing or leaving your set to go to the bathroom while its on is a violation of an unwritten agreement.


Somewhere in the past few decades or so we went from being inovators to be ligagators. If this went a different way we probably would have colonies on the moon and the mars landing would be history.


Why did DNNA do it, I don't know, it may not of been the intent, if they truely are looking at developing new products than there software needs to be able to accurately determine what update goes on a given pvr model and this clearly was not working with there current scheme.


If it was the intent, than they are spending a lot of resources on a very small segment of their maket, The market of pvr owners is small, those pvr owners who frequent this forum are even smaller.

Maybe they are afraid of litigation... I doubt it, when the CA suite started, the pvr was all there was, Outside of vcr's it was the only device capable of anykind of ca skipping , this is not the case today.

That market is now to crowed, some dvdrecorders can do ca. Home built pvr's can do CA.

A couple of years ago techtv did a segment on how difficult it would to be to use a computer as a pvr. This is no longer true, the applications have become more advanced, Sage.tv and snapstream in there 3rd generation offer more features than both the replaytv and the tvio. Showshifting is now viable because multiple tuners can now be incorporated with harware mpeg encoding. Even microsoft mce is a better pvr than tvio. Like the hbomb Comercial advance is in the market place going after that in a product would be a useless attempt, the content providers new assault is on preventing distribution outside the users "personal space". This unless your sole purpose is priracy is something we probably can live with.


Back to the right to reverse engineer, Actually a lot of companies encourage this kind of stuff, Ruko (from the people who brought you replaytv) for instance has a very active 3rd party community. (And there is a version of dvarchive for it) . Primiq is another.

Many innovations we take for granted today (apple computer) where developed by using exiting components in someway never intended by the manufacturer.

Companies sometime watch forums like this one, for ways to improve their products and even possible employment resources.


Dnna is going to be in trouble if it does anything that affects more the small number who use CA ( I don't ). because the replaytv is just one of a very crowded maket out there.


Windows media center with extenders

Laptops running sage.tv or bTV exceed the specs of most pvr's and yet are as quite, energy efficient and can save content to NAS drives vs. internal harddrives.

Primiq is about to launch a diskless pvr with a free guide service.


Well did I ramble enough....


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*Well did I ramble enough....*
And not very well, at that.  What's a manufacter?


----------



## adone36

Quote:

*I don't think people are generally pissed off that this is happening. They are just features that we grew to like and were not aware of when we got our 55xx's.*
My response was to a poster who was stompin' his feet and holding his breath till he turned blue.


Quote:

*Your argument amounts to that if you buy something , anything , a tv , a washing machince anything you have no right to modify it in any manner.
*
Wrong. Do what you want to the thing. Paint it yellow. But don't jump up and down if the paint you chose won't stick and declare it a plot against sun-shiny colors.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*And not very well, at that.  What's a manufacter?*
Sorry


Early morning, not enought coffee yet and being at work = poor grammer and spelling, but I think I got my point across.


I don't care about CA or IVS I don't use those, but it really bothers me when someone gets on the forum and starts rambling how people have no right to do anything.


Thats not entirely true, and it not true that everyone who does any type of reverse-engineering is a pirate.


I barely watch tv, but I am a developer and my latest hobby is connecting multimedia devices. I've done a lot of experimentation and am about to launch an information site..

www.distributed-home.com 


I see distributed home entertainment networks as being at were distributed computing was several years ago. The entertainment concerns even seem willing to by into anything that doesn't get outside the local NAT of the user.


Hey, I don't think I made a spelling mistake. see the coffee helps.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by wg21_
*see the coffee helps.*
[pedant mode on]


No, it doesn't.


"not enought coffee" (enough)

"poor grammer" (grammar)

"and it not true" (it's)

"as being at were distributed" (where)

"seem willing to by into anything" (buy)


[/pedant mode off]


----------



## Termitenshort

Hello 


I have a 55xx unit as well and obviously have the same problem than everyone with the new software version.


I would be willing to help finding a solution as I would really like to be able to use CA and IVS 


Thanks


Eric


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by Termitenshort_
*Hello 


I have a 55xx unit as well and obviously have the same problem than everyone with the new software version.


I would be willing to help finding a solution as I would really like to be able to use CA and IVS 


Thanks


Eric*
Search this thread. The solution is within.


John


----------



## Termitenshort

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*Search this thread. The solution is within.


John*
Really ? I have read it all (it took me 2 hours lol) and the only thing I saw is to put an image of an older version of the software (which I don't have) and to prevent software update, which make the box rebooting everyday.


Is that the solution ?


----------



## jones07

solution.................Buy a 5040.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by Termitenshort_
*Really ? I have read it all (it took me 2 hours lol) and the only thing I saw is to put an image of an older version of the software (which I don't have) and to prevent software update, which make the box rebooting everyday.


Is that the solution ?*
There is a post that shows how to make your RTV 'revert' back to old software.


Then you run Wirns with the NoSoftwarUpdate DLL. That protects your config.


And wirns also sends the 'CA on / IVS on' to the box on every connect.


I am doing the "wirns protect" and it's working. I did not have to revert my drive.


John


PS - search this thread for the word REVERT. There is a post by JM that will show up, about 10 down the list...


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_Originally posted by jones07_
*solution.................Buy a 5040.*
Or something other than a replaytv.

Lot of thin clients available, the replaytv just becomes another collection point for media vs. being the collection and viewing point.


Whats nice about that type of networking scheme is :


1) no fees associated with the thin clients.

2) Recorded programs on stored on a server or nas vs. in the box.

3) If the company tanks you only lose one encoding source not your whole investment.

4) multiple means of collection video. (pc encoders, replaytv boxes, diskless pvr's)



Downside : realtime CA and timeshifting only available on the true pvr's.

However PRISMIQ/recorder is supposed to be a diskless pvr.

I plan to order one when available (around christmas) .

and I will do a review on my website.


I think Primisq is on to something , I've implemented something like that using a laptop and wintv usb2. And saving to a Server vs. an external drive is much more flexible. I haven't seen a standalone pvr with a 500gb , or better yet terrabyte of storage.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by Termitenshort_
*Really ? I have read it all (it took me 2 hours lol) and the only thing I saw is to put an image of an older version of the software (which I don't have) and to prevent software update, which make the box rebooting everyday.


Is that the solution ?*
Pretty close, except there's a workaround for the image requirement. Or as Jones07 says, "Buy a 5040".


Unfortunately, the bits and pieces and mysterious incarnations are buried within this thread and in often obscure links to others. Also, there's a learning curve for the various tools and which versions of their instructions to use.


For a newbie like me, it was quite a challenge. It's sort of like trying to follow a cooking recipe with multiple versions of ingredients and instructions, and then you have to try to figure out stuff like what "caramelize the sugar" means.


And, of course, this has been an ongoing cat 'n mouse game with DNNA. So what may have worked in earlier posts may not work now. Fortunately, the current workaround on this thread seems to be somewhat stable...for now.


If anyone wants to provide a valued service for this topic, a detailed step-by-step cookbook with links and maybe a zip file containing all the necessary tools (and dll's, scripts, etc) aimed at newbies with average computer skills, would certainly be appreciated by many.


----------



## jgmace

Can someone tell me where to find the No software update.dll


Thanks


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by jgmace_
*Can someone tell me where to find the No software update.dll


Thanks*
 THIS should get you there.


----------



## hilbert1862

After I entered that post about the legal action and the law, I realized that I had missed the point: there are CA patents, as noted above. My undersatnading of patent law is that the patent grants a monpoly, usbject tot he requirement that the patent owner license the invnetion toanyone for a reasonable license fee.


This was im my comment that, if DNNA owns the patent, they can't lock it its use out of the market. But, as noted above, the patent owner is not DNNA, they appear to be a licensee. Although the language quoted from the manual is not entirely clear, it seems to be the case that AD Little is the assignee of the patents quoted. So then, whoever is that assignee is should be prepared to license the use to YOU. Then DNNA may be improperly inhibiting your use if they try to block it.


----------



## gpsjim

But the ReplayTV license you agreed to when you set up your Replay says they have the right to change the software (add/delete features) whenever they want as long as you are using their service.


If you want to change the software on your Replay (older version, registry settings, whatever), go ahead. Just don't complain because Replay changed the software when you connected to their service (or made a permanent change in functionality via a new version of their OS, which you received when you connected to their service).


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

Just don't complain because Replay changed the software
I must have missed something. Why shouldn't we complain? If I recall (from the December fiasco), complaining loudly is the best weapon we have. If DNNA has any common sense, they would try to make their customers happy.



Unhappy current ReplayTV Users = Less $$$ for DNNA in the long run.


I for one, just changed my mind about buying a second Replay with Lifetime this fall. I think I will download all my conflicting shows with ********** instead. Screw You guys at DNNA. Anyone who asks me about my dvr from now on- I tell em to to go buy a TiVo.


----------



## mhargr03

I'm not sure how you are comparing the December pricing fiasco with the "loss of CA & IVS" fiasco.


RTV 55xx owners were well aware that CA and IVS were not supposed to be on their machines. As I recall, from day one there was the disclaimer by those that figured out the loophole that I always saw when this was being discussed, something like "yeah but keep in mind DNNA could take this away in an instant."


With the pricing fiasco people were buying a product that was advertised at a certain price with certain features (lifetime activation). At first DNNA did not want to honor this advertised and clearly stated issue, but in the end they had to.


There really is no parallel, in my mind, between the two 'fiascos.' But of course I welcome others' thoughts on the subject.


As for kurhurdler, enjoy the viruses and constant scans from RIAA, etc. while you're illegally downloading your movies and shows.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by kurhurdler_
*I for one, just changed my mind about buying a second Replay with Lifetime this fall. I think I will download all my conflicting shows with ********** instead.*
If you want CA and IVS, buy a 50xx. These are the only 5xxx models DNNA/ReplayTV ever sold with those features. There are still some available. Don't blame DNNA for closing loopholes that you exploited to gain features that a) you were never supposed to have and b) they weren't supposed to offer anymore for legal reasons. From the very beginning, those of us in the know about this matter have cautioned that DNNA could easily close these loopholes and suggested buying a 50xx if you didn't want to take that chance. You gambled, and you lost. C'est la vie.


----------



## masterdeals

So I have been working alot lately and hadn't used the replay in like 10 days or so. To my suprise, no comericials skip. I didn't pay much attention. Then I went to send a show through IVS and the send option is missing. Fearing the inevitable from when I changed the 55xx to add it, I knew something was not good.


So I just want to say thanks, that in ten days you guys have 24 pages of posts, and someone always finds a way to get it back, even if reverting back is the only way...



Keep looking, if there is another way without reverting it will make everyones life simpler when the next update comes around..


Thanks again!


----------



## masterdeals

So after hours of reading I fired up wirns and setup to use the revert that j.m. described back on page 18. The replay did the complete net connect through wirns as it should, the after download zones and everything it said there was a problem with the connection, then the replay rebooted.


So now, The replay rebooted and will not accept any commands from the remote at all. It boots to the intro screen, showing press channel guide, replay guide, or menu.


I've rebooted multiple times with no change, guess I have a brick.


I will have to reimage the hard drive.


I do have a 5040 image, do you think if I apply that image and then connect through wirns with just the no software update command that I would be alright?


Any help appreciated...



-----------edit


Well, I let it sit for about 15 minutes and it changed the channel on my sattelite and fired up. Very wierd, unit was dead for 15 min then fired back to normal.


Still on the new version of course.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by masterdeals_
*So now, The replay rebooted and will not accept any commands from the remote at all. It boots to the intro screen, showing press channel guide, replay guide, or menu.


I've rebooted multiple times with no change, guess I have a brick.


Any help appreciated...*
This happened to me as well. In the end, one of the two 40GB drives in my 5504 got fried. Not recognized by either the RTV or my PC. The other one was OK and accepted a new image and brought the 5504 back to life.


Hoping a re-imaging takes care of your situation. Good luck and please report back on your progress.


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._

Don't blame DNNA for closing loopholes that you exploited to gain features that a) you were never supposed to have and b) they weren't supposed to offer anymore for legal reasons. From the very beginning, those of us in the know about this matter have cautioned that DNNA could easily close these loopholes and suggested buying a 50xx if you didn't want to take that chance. You gambled, and you lost. C'est la vie.
Once again. I don't disagree that they were fully capable to do that to my machine at any time. I also understood this all along. Do I have to like it? NO. Do I have to sit by quietly while they do things I don't like? I think not. I think I will continue to complain as loud as I can that *I don't like DNNA*. and theres not a thing you can do about it.


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by mhargr03_

I'm not sure how you are comparing the December pricing fiasco with the "loss of CA & IVS" fiasco.
I thought it was quite simple, but I'll try to explain it again.


Me= enables CA on my 5504

DNNA = already has my money, but decides to disable CA anyway

Me= loses CA

Me= Not Happy

Me= complains loudly


---- fast forward awhile ----(without using CA of course)


Many customers mad at DNNA, and complaining loudly = bad for DNNA business

DNNA == (closes up shop OR try to make customers happy)


Thats how it is like the December Fiasco. Enough angry people that create havoc, and we get what we want. That is why I mentioned the Dec Fiasco.


Don't bother telling me I don't have a right to be unhappy. I was born with that right. I do not have a legal right to do anything about it, but that is a whole other issue in my book.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by gpsjim_
*But the ReplayTV license you agreed to when you set up your Replay says they have the right to change the software (add/delete features) whenever they want as long as you are using their service.


If you want to change the software on your Replay (older version, registry settings, whatever), go ahead. Just don't complain because Replay changed the software when you connected to their service (or made a permanent change in functionality via a new version of their OS, which you received when you connected to their service).*
That is still pretty b.s. though. We pay them handsomely to use their service. I'm not hacking the activation or anything, so I don't think it is asking much to leave the box alone. I'm wondering if people will be so willing to accept it when it is something like their car changing fuctionality, or refrigerator (as more and more things become computerized). Say you like something really cold, but the company you bought the fridge from decided for "energy efficiency" and "health reasons" or whatever that you needed to only have everything chilled. You find a way to make your stuff cold. Ahhh....then they zap your refrigerator and put it back. Argh!! Yet, modern day, so many people are just so happy to go "we'll let whomever do whatever...it's all good." Well, it's not really. The slippery slope thing applies. Yes, I understand it is happening, but I think this is really a waste of effort on their part and a needless bother to this small segment of their customers.


Also, some keep bringing up legal issues? What legal issues? Yes, SB got sued, but it never went anywhere. ...and as it has been pointed out, a lot of things have changed since that case. They probably WON'T be sued. The need for them to be doing this just seems pointless. They should at the VERY least be giving you a checklist of everything that is happening to your box on a software update. Where can you go on their site for a rundown of the "feature set" of the latest software??


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by mhargr03_

As for kurhurdler, enjoy the viruses and constant scans from RIAA, etc. while you're illegally downloading your movies and shows.
Who said anything about the Radio Industry? Is your replay recording radio music. I must have missed that Mod. Not downloading movies either for that matter. I don't see how its any different ethically than your IVS on a 5040.


I'm just going to download my TV shows. I haven't gotten a virus yet. and quite frankley, I think you're a little naive about how you got those viruses.


By the way, the TV shows usually come without commercials. How's that for enabling CA?


----------



## clydeism

I HATE CA, so I dont care about this cobbering of it, I'm just glad it fixes the closed captioning, I would more than glad to trade my 5040 for a 5504


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by clydeism_
*I HATE CA, so I dont care about this cobbering of it, I'm just glad it fixes the closed captioning, I would more than glad to trade my 5040 for a 5504*
oh yeah? pm me.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by masterdeals_
*So now, The replay rebooted and will not accept any commands from the remote at all. It boots to the intro screen, showing press channel guide, replay guide, or menu.


I've rebooted multiple times with no change, guess I have a brick.


I will have to reimage the hard drive.


I do have a 5040 image, do you think if I apply that image and then connect through wirns with just the no software update command that I would be alright?


Any help appreciated...



-----------edit


Well, I let it sit for about 15 minutes and it changed the channel on my sattelite and fired up. Very wierd, unit was dead for 15 min then fired back to normal.


Still on the new version of course.*
What you describe is known behavior when Replay cannot contact the

mothership on boot.


I suspect it happened in your case because in following j.m.'s instructions

for step 3, you had shutdown wirns, removed the revert commands from

the shellcmds file, but probably did not restart the wirns server. It was

implied in step 3 that you should restart wirns but maybe something more

explicit would be better since it seems at least 2 people probably did the

same thing and mistakenly thought they needed to reimage.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...70#post4269270 


When you rebooted the replay, the DNS server configured into replay would

have been down (it's the wirns server) and replay would have had problems

connecting to mothership. Therefore you got the hang until the network

stuff timed out. If you had rebooted with wirns running or with the network

cord unplugged you most likely would not have seen the hanging problem.


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by kurhurdler_
*I must have missed something. Why shouldn't we complain?*
boo


I don't have a big beef with you so take my words lightly when I remind you that DNNA isn't reading your phasing complaints..... 100s of AVS members are.


Four hooves down. I stand my ground.


boo


----------



## gsulliva

I totally agree that they have the right to pull CA and IVS from my 5504, don't like it but its thier right. I don't think the 5040 is an option since I bought one and sold it now since it was VERY LOUD (good news made a profit with this hype going on).


My real worry is that DNNA is CLEARLY the minority in an ever more competive market (my cable company now offers cheap DVRs). I am the only person in my group of friends that owns a Replay nearly everyone else uses Tivo. I keep telling them why Replay is better (CA, IVS, DV Archive, etc). But CA and IVS is only available on OLD units.


End result REPLAY is going to keep shinking market share until my unit becomes a door stop.


Any one here have an ear at DNNA please have them wake up and realize they NEED an edge like CA and IVS to stay in business!!!!!!


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by icecow_

I don't have a big beef with you so take my words lightly when I remind you that DNNA isn't reading your phasing complaints..... 100s of AVS members are.
I've got no beef with you either cow, and I totally agree. I doubt DNNA reads my posts, although I think they do read *Some* posts here. Otherwise they wouldn't know we were enabling CA on our own.


As for those 100s reading my posts, I hope you'll complain loudly too that DNNA is not consumer-friendly.


I wasn't bothering them a bit by skipping my commercials, but now I'm mad.


----------



## hilbert1862

I have to say I am somewhat meddlinghere , because I have a 5040 anyway, not not a 5540. But since I am a CA partisan, this isssue interests me greatly. OK, so I agreed to let DNNA change the software (in a contract of adhesion -- i.e., one where the terms are unilaterally imposed and not actually bargained for, but IF I (having a hypothetical 5540) SOMEHOW got a personal license for CA, then I have aright to use it. So DNNA can change the software as they like, but at the very least, I have a right to change it back (which is what you guys are doing anyway, license or not).


Whether that "contract of adhesion" would bar me from requring DNNA to desist from interfering with my license, once I give them notice that I have it, is an arguable legal issue. The case would be stronger if I get the license before I get the 5540 and put DNNA on notice first. And then that aises the question whether DNNA would, or properly could, refuse to provide the RTV service.


But, on a more realistic plane, the person who commented that dNNA may be heading toward a dead end by dropping CA and the other feature is on the ball. It will be interesting to see what DNNA does when people quit buying their units that do not have CA etc. On the other hand, unless people complain directly, DNNA may not know whther the drop in sales is due to the rise in sales of competitive machines (DirectTIVO, TIVO, etyc) OR, conversely, just the CA etc feature absence.


----------



## wg21

Quote:

_

But, on a more realistic plane, the person who commented that dNNA may be heading toward a dead end by dropping CA and the other feature is on the ball. It will be interesting to see what DNNA does when people quit buying their units that do not have CA etc. On the other hand, unless people complain directly, DNNA may not know whther the drop in sales is due to the rise in sales of competitive machines (DirectTIVO, TIVO, etyc) OR, conversely, just the CA etc feature absence. [/b]_
_
Wonder how many average users are going to care or even notice.


Many cable users don't even notice something like a change in lineup unless they move something like espn or lifetime.


I don't use CA, I don't watch much live tv etc..


Now the market of people who own pvr's is small but growing, the market of people that own replaytv's is small with little or no rise, the number of folks in that group who actually have tried to modify their boxes is even smaller , and from that group the number of folks who run a wims server is very very small.


Bottomline : Complaining is ok, but don't expect results. And I may be a minority on this opion but I doubt if DNNA did this just to get you guys to buy 50xx vs. 55xx


Now, to the person who says that DNNA may only be hurting themselves... DNNA is continueing the guide service but its doubtful their will be a 56xx unit or the like.


But...


If I read their future plans right they may be headed in the right direction, standalone pvr's are pretty deadend. The future looks like it will be in integrated devices.


ie. Primiq diskless media recorder


DNNA's server, if they ever release it, (maybe ... they are retooling it for hd we can only hope.)


So, Complain all you want... I complain constantly to my senators on issues such as : The crazy induce act and the lastluster support for our space program. And you know what most of the time it falls on deaf ears._


----------



## MaxH

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*But, on a more realistic plane, the person who commented that dNNA may be heading toward a dead end by dropping CA and the other feature is on the ball. It will be interesting to see what DNNA does when people quit buying their units that do not have CA etc. On the other hand, unless people complain directly, DNNA may not know whther the drop in sales is due to the rise in sales of competitive machines (DirectTIVO, TIVO, etyc) OR, conversely, just the CA etc feature absence.*
Some of your other points were quite good, but the last one grabbed my attention because the first things I thought when I heard about the problems owners of modded 55xx units were having was, "I wonder if DNNA sold out of their stock of 5500 units, and if they didn't, I wonder if they'll quickly backpedal when they run out of refurbed 5000s and no one is buying the 5500s."


They are still offering new 5500s, but the shopping cart limit for 5504s is 12 and 5532s is 5. I don't know if that says anything about their current inventory or not.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*IF I (having a hypothetical 5540) SOMEHOW got a personal license for CA, then I have aright to use it. So DNNA can change the software as they like, but at the very least, I have a right to change it back (which is what you guys are doing anyway, license or not).
*
Wouldn't a license from the CA patent owner allow you to implement the feature

in your product, rather than force someone else to implement in their product?


DNNA headed down this road over a year ago when they introduced the 55xx.

It wasn't known for many months afterwards that the features could be

reenabled.


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*That is still pretty b.s. though. We pay them handsomely to use their service. I'm not hacking the activation or anything, so I don't think it is asking much to leave the box alone. I'm wondering if people will be so willing to accept it when it is something like their car changing fuctionality*
They didn't change the functionality, you did. They merely returned it the design specs.

Quote:

*Yes, I understand it is happening, but I think this is really a waste of effort on their part and a needless bother to this small segment of their customers.


Also, some keep bringing up legal issues? What legal issues? Yes, SB got sued, but it never went anywhere. ...and as it has been pointed out, a lot of things have changed since that case. They probably WON'T be sued. The need for them to be doing this just seems pointless.*
Since we know nothing about the legal issue, let's just go with your assumption. The consulted the legal team, had the engineers work out a fix, took down IVS for a day, all just to screw you

Quote:

*They should at the VERY least be giving you a checklist of everything that is happening to your box on a software update. Where can you go on their site for a rundown of the "feature set" of the latest software??*
Most builds have been bug fixes. When there actually WAS something new (ie: 5.0---->5.1), you got pop-ups, a message on the Replay and even emails.


----------



## Walburga

What I find funny is people who are saying that by not having CA on the 5504, DNNA is going to lose market-share to the Cable DVRs.


Obviously, those people have never seen the Cable DVRs - disregarding DirectTivos/HD Tivos, every Cable DVR I've seen - including the HDTV DVR I just got - are nothing more than glorified VCRs. Heck, by default they don't even have a 30 second skip function, only FFWD/REV!!


[Yes, I know some boxes can be "hacked" to add it.. although it doesn't work on mine.]


So, since no one else out there even _has_ CA functionality (not even Tivo) and *only* Tivo will soon have IVS-type functionality, *that's* not going to be the reason for DNNA to lose market-share.


The real reason for DNNA losing market-share will be price - $5/mo extra from the Cable Co is much less than the cost of a ReplayTV plus either lifetime activation or $13/mo.


Even if they're getting less features, in light of the price difference, most people won't care. Especially since many won't even know there are better products they could get in the _first place_.


So, it's foolish to say "I'm getting rid of my Replay and getting something else!" when no one else has CA functionality *either*. At most, you _might_ get the 30 second skip which you already have!


Just my $0.02..


--Walburga


----------



## sfhub

And here I thought they'd be losing market share simply because they've

clearly stated *giving up on the standalone PVR market* in the face of cable

tv business model, opting instead to move into higher end integrated media

centers and possilby software licensing.


----------



## gsulliva

Quote:

_Originally posted by Walburga_
*What I find funny is people who are saying that by not having CA on the 5504, DNNA is going to lose market-share to the Cable DVRs.


Obviously, those people have never seen the Cable DVRs - disregarding DirectTivos/HD Tivos, every Cable DVR I've seen - including the HDTV DVR I just got - are nothing more than glorified VCRs. Heck, by default they don't even have a 30 second skip function, only FFWD/REV!!*


I think you are missing the point, DNNA is not the 800 pound gorilla in the business (major market share). Tivo out sells replay by amazing numbers + all the new cheap cable/directTV options. If you are the minority player you need something extra (you would call this a VALUE ADDED feature). One of the major extras is NOW gone. Just another nail in the coffin.


----------



## adone36

FINALLY the infamous Tivo is losing money hand over fist but is hoping to make it up with market share post!


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*One of the major extras is NOW gone.*
"One of the major extras" officially left a year ago. There are ReplayTV users who have never been to this forum. CA and IVS not being part of the 55XX line didn't stop them from buying 55XXs.


----------



## Walburga

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*And here I thought they'd be losing market share simply because they've

clearly stated *giving up on the standalone PVR market* in the face of cable

tv business model, opting instead to move into higher end integrated media

centers and possilby software licensing.*
Well, that too! 


My point was simply that's it's stupid to "defect" to something else *just* because you "lost" CA on a 55XX - which some people seemed to be saying they're going to do now..


----------



## Walburga

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*I think you are missing the point, DNNA is not the 800 pound gorilla in the business (major market share). Tivo out sells replay by amazing numbers + all the new cheap cable/directTV options. If you are the minority player you need something extra (you would call this a VALUE ADDED feature). One of the major extras is NOW gone. Just another nail in the coffin.*
To be honest, if you think Tivo is the "800 pound gorilla", I think you're very mistaken..


Compared to all the Cable Cos, Tivo is extremely small..


After all, Tivo has publicly admitted (via their shareholder report) that they're facing the distinct possibility of being forced out of the market by the Cable Cos. offering DVRs themselves.


----------



## gsulliva

Everyone is actually making my point for me. ReplayTV has such a TINY portion of the market, it can only survive by offering features that the others do not. If they do not release a unit which supports CA and IVS (and other feature we all love), there really is no reason to go with them.


Don't get me wrong I really like the Replay product, but as cheaper offerings get closer to what Replay currently offers, thier future looks questionable.


----------



## Jeff D

If I were in charge of DNNA's decisions I'd at least offer up CA to everyone. Not that it's not there now, but the extra button press is something I really NEED. I've said it before I'm all into non-interactive watching of TV. I hate to be drawn out of the "moment". Any interaction with the real world while watching a show and I'm out of the illusion and back to reality.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Everyone is actually making my point for me. ReplayTV has such a TINY portion of the market, it can only survive by offering features that the others do not. If they do not release a unit which supports CA and IVS (and other feature we all love), there really is no reason to go with them.


Don't get me wrong I really like the Replay product, but as cheaper offerings get closer to what Replay currently offers, thier future looks questionable.*
You don't think the folks at DNNA realize this? They have already stated in their reports that they are getting out of the market for mass consumer-level DVRs because there is just no way to compete with the cable/satellite companies in that market. Instead, they will focus on higher-end products and licensing opportunities.


I'm sure DNNA would LOVE to be able to include CA and IVS in their products again. However, there are all kinds of issues involved in doing so--legal, financial, and otherwise. The media industry basically sued SonicBlue out of existence over these features. While with D&M behind it DNNA obviously has a lot more resources than SB, I'm sure it is hesitant (understandably) to commit the amount of money it would take to try fighting what very well may be another losing battle. Perhaps if Tivo gets its IVS-like service off the ground smoothly, DNNA will retool IVS to be more like it. At least then, the two could fight on a united front.


As far as commercial advance goes, I really think one of the other posters may have hit the nail on the head. While there is obviously the same old legal problem involved, there is likely a licensing issue involved also. DNNA may very well have paid a reduced license fee for the 55xx units since they don't fully use Automatic Commercial Advance technology (and don't have the CA logo on the exterior casing as 50xx units do). I do think they would have had to pay some because Show|Nav uses the ACA algortihms to mark commercials etc. Still, the removal of CA for 55xx units in 144 could very well have been the result of the lawyers for ACA patent holder threatening to take action against DNNA. If so, I hope DNNA eventually decides it is willing to fight any legal battle over CA (where DNNA seemingly has a stronger case than IVS), pays the fees required to the patent holder, and re-enables the feature on the 55xx units.


In short, I am not saying that you upset 55xx users have no right to complain, nor am I trying to stop you. Just keep in mind that while in theory DNNA can easily flip a switch to give 55xx owners CA and IVS (and I'm sure they would like to), in all likelihood they can't do this in practice without facing severe financial and legal repercussions. Remember, we are not privy to 99% of what happens at DNNA/ReplayTV. Unless DNNA had information indicating such repercussions were a real possibility, I doubt it would have taken these actions. Hopefully, this move will get any heat off DNNA long enough for their counsel to investigate the possility of pursuing this matter further in light of some of the recent more favorable decisions in areas related to CA/IVS/copyright.


----------



## gsulliva

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*You don't think the folks at DNNA realize this? They have already stated in their reports that they are getting out of the market for mass consumer-level DVRs because there is just no way to compete with the cable/satellite companies in that market. Instead, they will focus on higher-end products and licensing opportunities.*
So what happens to my two lifetime activations, if they get out of the mass consumer products? Did I bet on the wrong horse?


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*So what happens to my two lifetime activations, if they get out of the mass consumer products? Did I bet on the wrong horse?*
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Not long after they hang us out to dry, someone will release the software we need to get the guide off TVguide.com or some other source. No worries here. Damn you DNNA, for swiping my CA and IVS!


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*So what happens to my two lifetime activations, if they get out of the mass consumer products? Did I bet on the wrong horse?*
I think it is way too early for the sky is falling statements, even for AVS.


The guide service is planned to be used by other products.

The guide service brings in revenue.

The guide service is minimal maintenance.

DNNA has financial backing and obligations to continue service.


----------



## hilbert1862

sfhub: Yes, the license from the CA owner would allow me to implement it (on I machine that I own). The open issue is whether I could stop DNNA from interfering with my legitimate use of the license on the machine that I own.


This negative aspect is significantly different from "forcing DNNA to provide CA".


----------



## hilbert1862

Any idea what other products wouyld use the guide service?


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*Everyone is actually making my point for me. ReplayTV has such a TINY portion of the market, it can only survive by offering features that the others do not. If they do not release a unit which supports CA and IVS (and other feature we all love), there really is no reason to go with them.


Don't get me wrong I really like the Replay product, but as cheaper offerings get closer to what Replay currently offers, thier future looks questionable.*
Totally incorrect. Tivo for example is a 1 man band, currently moribund. DNNA is a major maker of several brand lines. If Tivo decides to make a change it has to have engineers etc design something, higher promo people etc.


DNNA uses their existing pr firm, the guy doing the ad for a receiver does another for the media server, the same factory will build it.


Even if the promised Tivo vaporware comes out, they STILL can't do a lot of things that Replay does better.


----------



## adone36

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*The guide service is planned to be used by other products.

The guide service brings in revenue.

The guide service is minimal maintenance.

DNNA has financial backing and obligations to continue service.*
Maybe we can put this in the faq and maybe cut out 10% of the endless newbie posts.


----------



## adone36

I think the the CA and IVS thing is a legal, not a licensing issue. The simple fact is the 55xx has CA. They just call it Show/Nav and it is manual instead of auto. It has no other purpose but to skip commercials.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*sfhub: Yes, the license from the CA owner would allow me to implement it (on I machine that I own). The open issue is whether I could stop DNNA from interfering with my legitimate use of the license on the machine that I own.


This negative aspect is significantly different from "forcing DNNA to provide CA".*
But unless you are implementing the CA yourself, you are forcing DNNA to allow

usage of their software they did not intend. Let's say there are many reasons

why CA was removed:

1) lower license fees

2) private agreement with studios to avoid law suits

3) untested feature with 55xx which could cause system instability

4) potential supports costs that were factored out when feature was removed

5) other reasons


When you get the license, you may have addressed item #1, but the others,

you are exposing the manufacturer to, against their intentions.


Let's say hypothetically the studios sue again. DNNA says, hey, go after the

user, they got the license, we have nothing to do with this. Studios go after

you and you claim DNNA provided the code, go after them.


I guess the main point of discussion between what you are suggesting and

what is in my mind is whether the license would allow you to use copyrighted

code which the author specifically intended you not use.


I think in general if you want to write your own software to control the

hardware there's nothing DNNA can really do about that, but if you want

to use something they wrote, they have some say, IMHO.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*Any idea what other products wouyld use the guide service?*
 http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...tv_040123.html


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by clydeism_
*I HATE CA, so I dont care about this cobbering of it, I'm just glad it fixes the closed captioning, I would more than glad to trade my 5040 for a 5504*
I'll trade. I don't have anything special on my 5504 yet.


----------



## dfjkl

Quote:

_Originally posted by adone36_

They didn't change the functionality, you did. They merely returned it the design specs.
So what? I bought the product, it's mine to do with as I please. I'm not stealing the service or anything.

Quote:

Since we know nothing about the legal issue, let's just go with your assumption. The consulted the legal team, had the engineers work out a fix, took down IVS for a day, all just to screw you
It's funny how we see this on the political level. Everyone willing to just lie down and be run over. Hell, we live in a day where the constitution is a "license." Taken away at will. Yet it doesn't bother people, they're willing to put the people back in that have caused it. You also probably support MS's "right" to disable your OS on a whim with other built in time bombs such as "hardware profiling," disabling activation if they "suspect" you've "transferred" your copy. The general direction all this stuff moves in is disgusting, and what's more disgusting is people think it's just fine.

Quote:

Most builds have been bug fixes. When there actually WAS something new (ie: 5.0---->5.1), you got pop-ups, a message on the Replay and even emails.
Not good enough.


Jeff D., j.m., and sfhub seem to be making the most sense and have the greatest understanding of the different perspectives in my readings.


----------



## Jeff D

I think I was the one that originally mentioned the licensing in this thread and some have mentioned a good point (myself included in post 501).


As sfhub stated the terms of the licensing is what I would suspect is the issue.


SB most likely had a partnership with the guys that have the patents on the CA design. SB would license the code and most likely pay a royality on every unit sold that included the software.


Then SB gets sued and goes bankrupt. DNNA takes over and renegotiates the contract with ACA folks this time to keep CA for the installed base and to use the functionality of CA in Show|Nav (honestly I can't believe DNNA has the balls to do this CA just calling it something else and with a button press. It really is the same stuff). So DNNA has a deal where the software is in there, but not called by the name it was, no logo on the box and there's still a licensing fee paid, because Show|Nav uses the same detection algorithms.


If you want proof of what I'm speaking about look at the back of your 5500 and then look at the back of your 5000 they both list the same patents and the majority of the patents listed are for the commercial detection/skipping. And you can't state a product is covered under a specific patent unless it's is. (patent guys, I'm right, right?)


So, I'm really confused by this, "Commercial Advance" isn't a trademarked name, and just what replay was calling it. I don't understand how this all ties together. The functionality is in there and used by the 5500 line. What's the difference?


It would be really nice for someone like Lyndon to give the company take on this aside from the fact that the boxes were sold without these features enabled...


----------



## johnmagee4

I have a suggestion. This one giant thread contains both technical info about possible workarounds, as well as the grumbling, political discussion, or whatever you want to call it.


I suggest you (someone who cares) split this into two threads. One thread can have the technical discussion, and the other stuff can probably stay here. That way someone wanting the technical info won't have to search through all the posts. Ideally, whoever creates the new thread will have a first post that is updated and always contains either the info itself or the pointers to where to find the info.


This is of course unless it would be better to not have the technical discussion in the open anymore.


----------



## mikek

Has anybody actually talked to replaytv about this? I talked to a supervisor and she said that the new update was to fix bugs and new serial support. She said that replaytv did not target hacked units, but losing CA and IVS was a by-product of the update. She also confirmed that replaytv would never disable features that came with the unit. She also said that a 5500 unit would never get IVS and CA authorized. BTW there is no longer an 800 number for technical support. -mk


----------



## jlv

Quote:

_Originally posted by mikek_
*but losing CA and IVS was a by-product of the update.*
Everything she said is correct, except that this one line is a stretch. CA and IVS in 55xx units was explicitly disabled; it was no "by-product".


The good news is that it means there is someone who can add new features to the software (one new feature being the "getmodel" shell op).


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*Everything she said is correct, except that this one line is a stretch. CA and IVS in 55xx units was explicitly disabled; it was no "by-product".


The good news is that it means there is someone who can add new features to the software (one new feature being the "getmodel" shell op).*
Ecxactly because when they saw we were using the NOUPDATE.DLL with WIRNS they went a step further to disable the units with NO SOFTWARE update.


----------



## Bigjohns

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Ecxactly because when they saw we were using the NOUPDATE.DLL with WIRNS they went a step further to disable the units with NO SOFTWARE update.*
huh?.


John


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*huh?.


John*
I don't know if it was "as a result of" or always being planned, but they made

a second change later on which disabled CA/IVS (for 55xx) on net connect in

addition to the original change which disabled CA/IVS (for 55xx) in the software

itself.


----------



## Bigjohns

pm me?


----------



## rbolen70

Here's what happened.


"They" decided to check the box to see if it's "not" a 55xx. So, registry tweak or not, CA & IVS won't work - PERIOD.


Up to 530511430 CA & IVS simply loaded the registry values for CA & IVS via "reg-load-num-var-from-name" in the file "Customize\\w-customize.wizard".


Now, at version 530511440, the sub-routines "get-is-ivs-supported" and "get-is-aca-supported" which is a part of the "Platform\\Plymouth\\Modules\\IAppShell.out" module and is called from "Customize\\w-customize.wizard".


So now, absolutely NO registry modification will help with 144.



I doubt that this was just a "by-product" of bug fixes. Why else would you add the routines get-is-aca-supported & get-is-ivs-supported?


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by mikek_

*Has anybody actually talked to replaytv about this? I talked to a supervisor and she said that the new update was to fix bugs and new serial support. She said that replaytv did not target hacked units, but losing CA and IVS was a by-product of the update.*
*
Thats an outright lie. The ethereal evidence specifically shows that they are purposely disabling CA and IVS specifically.*


----------



## mikek

From what I've been reading there is no way to have CA and IVS on a 5500 unit with 144 software. This is because the mothership asks what model replay it is and if the answer is " 5xxx" then CA and IVS work, but if the answer is "55xx" then CA and IVS don't work.


There has to be a way to trick the mothership into thinking that a 55xx is a 5xxx. I have both units on my network.


Does anybody know where in the net connect routine does it ask "get model"? -mk


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*Ecxactly because when they saw we were using the NOUPDATE.DLL with WIRNS they went a step further to disable the units with NO SOFTWARE update.*
You are joking right??


----------



## bradbomb

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*You are joking right??*
when he says disabled, he means the ca & ivs gets disabled every net connect, no matter what version you are using


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by mikek_
*From what I've been reading there is no way to have CA and IVS on a 5500 unit with 144 software. This is because the mothership asks what model replay*
Nope. With build 144, a 55XX boots up with CA and IVS disabled, even with a drive moved from a 50XX to a 55XX, with no net connect involved. The check for model type occurs independent of the net connect in build 144.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by mikek_
*From what I've been reading there is no way to have CA and IVS on a 5500 unit with 144 software. This is because the mothership asks what model replay it is and if the answer is " 5xxx" then CA and IVS work, but if the answer is "55xx" then CA and IVS don't work.


There has to be a way to trick the mothership into thinking that a 55xx is a 5xxx. I have both units on my network.


Does anybody know where in the net connect routine does it ask "get model"? -mk*
No, that's not how it works. It is primarily the ReplayTV build 144 software itself that disables CA and IVS if it is running on a 55xx. The software is where the "getmodel" command (and related exported functions) lives. It is not part of the net connect at all. There is little that can be done about this because the software is protected against modification by el gamal signatures that are, for all intents and purposes, impossible to defeat. Thus, there is no practical way to enable CA and IVS on a 55xx running build 144 software.


As a secondary measure, the mothership has recently started explicitly disabling CA and IVS for 55xx units during the getshellcmds.pl part of the net connect. This measure has absolutely no effect on units aleady running 144 (since 55xx with this build can never have CA/IVS anyway). However, it does make life more difficult for 55xx users who have chosen to downgrade to a pre-144 build. You see, prior to the implementation of this second measure, a working non-WiRNS based solution to block software upgrades would have been enough to retain CA and IVS on downgraded units. Now this is not enough because CA and IVS are disabled for 55xx units upon each net connect.


Can this secondary measure be defeated? Of course, it requires nothing more than the old WIRNS + GSC method that people have used for months. However, the difference is that the presence of this new secondary measure forces 55xx users to net connect through WiRNS + GetShellCommands (with CA/IVS commands in place) + NoSoftwareUpdate *every time* as opposed to just once. This is inconvenient for many people because it basically means having to run WiRNS 24/7.


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*This is inconvenient for many people because it basically means having to run WiRNS 24/7.*
While not inexpensive, there's a program called Application as Service that allows any program to be run in the background as a service under Windows NT/2000/XP/2003. Once WiRNS is configured, this program makes it invisible as far as leaving WiRNS running 24/7.


----------



## wg21

Excuse me if I'm beting stupid here, I don't use wirms. and I don't care about CA.


But couldn't you just block the net connect at the firewall/router and do a force connect to satisfy the connecting to the mothership at some preset time of day.


----------



## waynethedvrguy

Keep in mind that WiRNS is not required on a 24/7 basis. For those who are unwilling, you can run it every so often (3-4 days) just to keep your guide data up-to-date and then shut it down. kjac has really steamline v1.1x and it shouldn't take more that 10 minutes to do a complete download and combine (even if you are running with DataDirect guide info).


Thanks to j.m. for his forward thinking some months ago. Thanks to kjac for a great program.


Regards,


Wayne


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by l8er_
*While not inexpensive, there's a program called Application as Service that allows any program to be run in the background as a service under Windows NT/2000/XP/2003. Once WiRNS is configured, this program makes it invisible as far as leaving WiRNS running 24/7.*
I had thought that kjac had added/was going to add the ability for WiRNS to run as a service. If he has not already started that, I will look into adding it (provided the CVS source is still up to date). It shouldn't be too difficult to do.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by waynethedvrguy_
*Keep in mind that WiRNS is not required on a 24/7 basis. For those who are unwilling, you can run it every so often (3-4 days) just to keep your guide data up-to-date and then shut it down.*
I know this is an option, but personally this seems more inconvenient than running WiRNS 24/7. If you go on long vacation or a business trip (etc.), you will run into trouble unless you automate the connection process somehow. Then again, if you have such automation set up, you would probably be able to just run WiRNS 24/7. I don't know if it is the cost of electricity or what, but I've never completely understood the aversion to running programs like WiRNS 24/7. My PC is always on anyway...


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*So just to be clear, IVS and CA can be reenabled via WIRNS but a net connect to the mothership will knock out these features even though the shell command will prevent the new software from being applied? So the way to do this would be to net connect, run the commands, get back CA and IVS, disconnect internet connection for about 10 days and then net connect again for new guide info and ultimately run the shell commands again to put back IVS and CA? Therefore, we should not bother with removing any of the commands after a bet connect because in 10 or so days we will need them again?*
J.M., so the above statement is correct?


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*J.M., so the above statement is correct?*
Just read the last paragraph of j.m.'s post. It is very clear what setup you need.

Whether you want to run that 24/7 or every 10 days is up to you.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...42#post4296242 


It is not clear what type of instability you may encounter if the Replay is unable

to contact it's DNS server for extended periods of time. At the minimum when

the replay reboots, the unit will hang at the initial swirl screen while timing out

some network operations. If you leave the network cable unplugged as you've

suggested, then this shouldn't be a problem (except IVS will be useless)


You could reset the DNS after using WIRNS, but then you'd have to block the

software update some other way.


Assuming you leave the replay configured to go through WIRNS and just shut

down WIRNS, RDDNS updates will not occur. This could have a negative impact

on IVS if your WAN IP changes.


IMO you should just run WIRNS 24/7 if you want these features.


----------



## waynethedvrguy

Don't get me wrong. I run WiRNS 24/7. It uses few resources. I just suggest the alternative for those who, for some reason, can't/don't want to.


j.m. :


I think that kjac has "WiRNS as a service" pretty much ready. It may have been sidetracked a bit but he did mention a while back that it would be do-able. I am pretty sure that he will be checking in on this thread because it is of interest to him, too.


Regards,


Wayne


----------



## rbolen70

On the newest version "144", you cannot enable CA/IVS on a 55xx - PERIOD.


It does not depend only on a registry setting anymore, it is an internal fuction that is called by the setup panel as I have stated in detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...92#post4295492


----------



## jlv

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*It is not clear what type of instability you may encounter if the Replay is unable

to contact it's DNS server for extended periods of time.*
Actually, none.


Before I had my wireless network, I used to manually run a 75' ethernet cable up to my Replay once a week and force a net connect. On occasion, I'd forget and wouldn't notice until the guide data all expired.


I never had any "instability".



As you mention, it's kind of silly to leave your unit disconnected from the network in order to preserve having IVS enabled. And I'm not sure that CA is worth that much more than Show|Nav.


----------



## rbolen70

Quote:

_Originally posted by rbolen70_
*On the newest version "144", you cannot enable CA/IVS on a 55xx - PERIOD.


It does not depend only on a registry setting anymore, it is an internal fuction that is called by the setup panel as I have stated in detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...92#post4295492 *
Then again.. if you happen to "REVERT" and use the nosoftwareupdate.dll, you'll be ok if you use WiRNS 24x7.


Another option would be if you had a proxy server and denied requests sent with getsw.pl in the URL.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*Actually, none.


Before I had my wireless network, I used to manually run a 75' ethernet cable up to my Replay once a week and force a net connect. On occasion, I'd forget and wouldn't notice until the guide data all expired.


I never had any "instability".



As you mention, it's kind of silly to leave your unit disconnected from the network in order to preserve having IVS enabled. And I'm not sure that CA is worth that much more than Show|Nav.*
If you read the section of my post which you edited out you'll notice I said

it shouldn't be a problem if you leave the cable disconnected (but then you

lose IVS)


If you leave the cable connected and configure replay to use your WIRNS

box as DNS, then shutdown the WIRNS box and reboot the replay you

will see the unit hang on the first screen for about 15 minutes. It won't

respond to your remote control.


You have no further to look than this thread to see an example of this

behavior being misinterpreted as OS image being trashed.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...96#post4288796 


Many times DNS requests are blocking calls and I doubt anyone has tested

extended periods of time with DNS server down while network cable is

connected. For example what happens when you have a recording in progress

and the unit tries to perform a net connect and hits a blocking call to

DNS. In a multi-threaded execution environment you'd hope nothing else

is affected but there is a chance for problems. This is especially true

when you consider the startup behavior with unit being locked up for

15 minutes if DNS server is down.


It is again unclear to me what would happen if a maintenance reboot

occured 5 minutes before your recording started. Would the bootup

hang affect your ability to record the show?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by rbolen70_
*On the newest version "144", you cannot enable CA/IVS on a 55xx - PERIOD.


It does not depend only on a registry setting anymore, it is an internal fuction that is called by the setup panel as I have stated in detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...92#post4295492 *
Just to be clear, the setup panels are not really where the check happens. THose aren't even called unless you enter the GUI. The checks are in the binary modules, and the GUI just changes to reflect that.


----------



## rbolen70

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Just to be clear, the setup panels are not really where the check happens. THose aren't even called unless you enter the GUI. The checks are in the binary modules, and the GUI just changes to reflect that.*
Egg-zactly...


;-)


----------



## bkushner

Quote:

_Originally posted by bradbomb_
*when he says disabled, he means the ca & ivs gets disabled every net connect, no matter what version you are using*
Thanks Brad, that's what I wanted to say.


----------



## bkushner

What happened to the action on this thread?


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by bkushner_
*What happened to the action on this thread?*
It's dying. You pretty much know where everything stands right now and really only have one option to keep features. Nothing has really changed for awhile.


----------



## jlv

Ah, ok sfhub, I see the distinction now.


((Sorry icecow, I got the wrong username there!))


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by jlv_
*Ah, ok icecow, I see the distinction now.*
?


----------



## hilbert1862

When you tell the oppostion your plans, you can't expect to win.


----------



## hilbert1862

Regarding connecting the 5040 by walking over an ethernet cable weekly. That's what I am doing until I fish some cable (as SFHUB knows well). Anyway, his comment about SHOW/NAV being about as good as CA: that's an interesting tactic, but it evokes another post: poeple have asked what the latest software version does for the 5040. The answers were: some bug fixed and closed captions work better.


BUT the RTV tech told me that the latest verison is needed to support SHOW/NAV.


True? Not true?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*BUT the RTV tech told me that the latest verison is needed to support SHOW/NAV.*
I guess this is true from a certain perspective. DNNA added Show|Nav in version 5.1 IIRC. Thus, the latest version (5.1) *is* needed for Show|Nav. However, the latest build (144) of the latest version (5.1) is *not* needed to support Show|Nav. This is a somewhat strained distinction between version and build number; however, it may be what the tech was talking about if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, he is just wrong.


----------



## hilbert1862

From the "version" number displayed on the 5040, how do I recognize the version no. & the build no.?


----------



## j.m.

The general format of a ReplayTV version number is "PPPVVBBB?" where P=Platform, V=Version, B=Build, ?=Unknown (always 0). Using the current software version number "530511440" as an example, the version is 5.1 and the build is 144.


----------



## chain777

God you guys are geeks.


I don't know what that says for me, but I'm just gonna sit back here and see what happens next...the suspense is killing me;=)


----------



## hilbert1862

thanks for the version info


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The general format of a ReplayTV version number is "PPPVVBBB?" where P=Platform, V=Version, B=Build, ?=Unknown (always 0). Using the current software version number "530511440" as an example, the version is 5.1 and the build is 144.*
Pure speculation, but they may be using the last digit for internal builds.


----------



## hilbert1862

If the last digit is ALWAYS zero, why woulsd that suggest it is used for internal builds? Or do they reset it to zero when they release it, maybe?


----------



## leesweet

If there are so many builds (we've gone from 5.1/19 to 5.1/144 over the last 11 months or so), I dunno if there'd be more 'internal' builds than those or not... I know something about software devel, but not perhaps what DNNA does for 'incremental' builds.


So, mebbe yes, mebbe no...


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:

_Originally posted by hilbert1862_
*If the last digit is ALWAYS zero, why woulsd that suggest it is used for internal builds? Or do they reset it to zero when they release it, maybe?*
All the builds _we_ see end in zero. However, Lee is right that there is a lot of pad between releases so my speculation is likely wrong.


----------



## repnewbie

J.M and others, what did i do wrong? I had the following in my shell cmds folder:


regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1

cdsys

mv boot.state boot.state.bak


I ran Wirns and connected to the mothership. It got the guide and somehow got stuck at the combining data stage (92%). I had to turn off the box to unfreeze it. I never got CA back and i am still at build 440. Any suggestions?


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*J.M and others, what did i do wrong? I had the following in my shell cmds folder:


regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1

regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1

regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1

cdsys

mv boot.state boot.state.bak


I ran Wirns and connected to the mothership. It got the guide and somehow got stuck at the combining data stage (92%). I had to turn off the box to unfreeze it. I never got CA back and i am still at build 440. Any suggestions?*
The ReplayTV doesn't execute the shell commands until the very end of the net connect. Since you had to power cycle the ReplayTV before completion of the net connect, they probably didn't get executed. Try again.


Also, the "DisableSoftwareDownload" regedit value is pointless now. Once you get back to a build prior to 144, you will have to net connect via WiRNS all the time if you want to keep CA and IVS. Thus, don't include the "DisableSoftwareDownload" setting. Just use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin + GetShellCommands.dll + CA/IVS regedit comands.


----------



## Jeff D

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The ReplayTV doesn't execute the shell commands until the very end of the net connect. Since you had to power cycle the ReplayTV before completion of the net connect, they probably didn't get executed. Try again.*


While j.m. is the man here, I have to add in my findings for the greater common knowledge....


The shell command called from within GSC seems run after a update completion. Yet, there are some commands that seem to execute instantly.


In the case described with the 4 regedit commands and the mv move, I believe the regedits are delayed until after the successful connection completes. The cd and mv may too, but I'm not so sure.


I was running into issues with this and discussing my findings with j.m. when I had a 144 update that my 5040 was downloading. I was constantly stopping the transfer, and my regedit commands weren't taking. But, some other commands were executing even though the transfer couldn't completing. For example the commands to enable the shell worked even when always stopping the update. There are other things that work too, but regedit ones surely won't.


----------



## repnewbie

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The ReplayTV doesn't execute the shell commands until the very end of the net connect. Since you had to power cycle the ReplayTV before completion of the net connect, they probably didn't get executed. Try again.


Also, the "DisableSoftwareDownload" regedit value is pointless now. Once you get back to a build prior to 144, you will have to net connect via WiRNS all the time if you want to keep CA and IVS. Thus, don't include the "DisableSoftwareDownload" setting. Just use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin + GetShellCommands.dll + CA/IVS regedit comands.*
Woke up this morning and it looked like my unit had rebooted overnight. I check what SW version i had and it had reverted back to 190!!! I also checked and CA and IVS are back!! Thanks J.M!! You the man!!


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by repnewbie_
*cdsys

mv boot.state boot.state.bak*
After a unit reverts to the previous version, be sure you remove those two commands from the shellcmds file before it net connects again.


----------



## tivoboy

Is anyone else having strange performance problems, my 5504 is not responding to remotes sometimes now.


----------



## BaysideBas

Are you trying to control it with your TiVo remote? 


Contrary to what you may have heard that will not give your Replay status bars


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*Is anyone else having strange performance problems, my 5504 is not responding to remotes sometimes now.*
This post seems somwhat out of place to me unless your software was upgraded and you thought that was the problem. I doubt it though.


There have been several posts on bad IR panels in the 55xx models. I had one myself, but it was repaired under warranty.


Try a universal remote that supports RTV and see if that works. If not, you might want to look into checking out the IR board. If the remote only seems to work only @ certain angles, intermittently, or not at all it could very well be the IR panel. That was my problem. If another remote works, reset the remote. I think it's Mute + TV + 9 8 1. I'm sure you checked the batteries, but I had to mention the obvious.


You'll have to search the forum, but I think the fix was to reflow the solder on the board or reposition the detector if it's bent. My memory stinks, so I could be wrong.


At any rate, I believe Mikeyboy sells them for $39 shipped if you need a new one @ www.ReplayTvParts.com .


Good luck!


----------



## adone36

Maybe every forum page should have a header that says "Unplug it for 10 minutes before you post."


----------



## tivoboy

Quote:

_Originally posted by clambert11_
*This post seems somwhat out of place to me unless your software was upgraded and you thought that was the problem. I doubt it though.


There have been several posts on bad IR panels in the 55xx models. I had one myself, but it was repaired under warranty.


Try a universal remote that supports RTV and see if that works. If not, you might want to look into checking out the IR board. If the remote only seems to work only @ certain angles, intermittently, or not at all it could very well be the IR panel. That was my problem. If another remote works, reset the remote. I think it's Mute + TV + 9 8 1. I'm sure you checked the batteries, but I had to mention the obvious.


You'll have to search the forum, but I think the fix was to reflow the solder on the board or reposition the detector if it's bent. My memory stinks, so I could be wrong.


At any rate, I believe Mikeyboy sells them for $39 shipped if you need a new one @ www.ReplayTvParts.com .


Good luck!*
I posted it here, only becuase it has only started happening since the OS upgrade that I noticed. I saw the OS upgrade thread over on replaytvfaq, and then headed here. Sure enough, that night I started to see this remote issue.


Last night, I couldn't get the box to respond, then it started responding and had CACHED all the commands I sent.


this has never happened before, until now.


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*I posted it here, only becuase it has only started happening since the OS upgrade that I noticed. I saw the OS upgrade thread over on replaytvfaq, and then headed here. Sure enough, that night I started to see this remote issue.


Last night, I couldn't get the box to respond, then it started responding and had CACHED all the commands I sent.


this has never happened before, until now.*
Seemingly after the update one of my replayTV's only responds to the remote if I get 5' away from the ReplayTV's IR reciever. I thought it a coincidence. Between your post and another person complaining about their IR reciever I'm not so sure now. GRR


----------



## MaxH

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*I posted it here, only becuase it has only started happening since the OS upgrade that I noticed. I saw the OS upgrade thread over on replaytvfaq, and then headed here. Sure enough, that night I started to see this remote issue.


Last night, I couldn't get the box to respond, then it started responding and had CACHED all the commands I sent.


this has never happened before, until now.*
Delays in responding to the remote are not at all unusual. Do you have more than one Replay? The most common cause for delays like this is the Replay waiting for info from the network, like the guide data from another Replay, but a mostly full HD or just recording, watching, and sending or receiving via IVS at the same time can do it if the planets line up a certain way.


It's possible that the upgrade is causing your delays, but since no one else is reporting it, my WASG that it's only tangentially related, if at all, to your problem.


----------



## DarkScreen

Quote:

_Originally posted by icecow_
*Seemingly after the update one of my replayTV's only responds to the remote if I get 5' away from the ReplayTV's IR reciever. I thought it a coincidence. Between your post and another person complaining about their IR reciever I'm not so sure now. GRR*
Now that you mention it, since the software upgrade, my 5504 remote has been acting a little "sluggish" and unresponsive at times.


BTW, I had a 5504 with the IR receiver bent down. Easy to fix by just removing the front panel board and bending the module back into place.


----------



## mhargr03

This seems like it *might* be more than a coincidence...perhaps a new thread on this topic should be started?


----------



## tivoboy

Quote:

_Originally posted by MaxH_
*Delays in responding to the remote are not at all unusual. Do you have more than one Replay? The most common cause for delays like this is the Replay waiting for info from the network, like the guide data from another Replay, but a mostly full HD or just recording, watching, and sending or receiving via IVS at the same time can do it if the planets line up a certain way.


It's possible that the upgrade is causing your delays, but since no one else is reporting it, my WASG that it's only tangentially related, if at all, to your problem.*
well, just a couple of points

guide data is coming in at 02:00, and over ethernet.

There is only one replay, original model with 40 hours, and 26 hours available.


I'll keep checking it out, but now at least TWO people have the issue.


make that three


----------



## adone36

Like I said, powering off the machine usually fixes it.


----------



## icecow

ok, I'll try that next time I see that replay


----------



## gpsjim

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*guide data is coming in at 02:00, and over ethernet.
*
Unless you're forcing it daily at 02:00, that's not going to remain true. 


Using the 'net connection, RTVs go out for guide updates approximately every 25 hours


----------



## spirto

How confident are we that CA actually works. I have all the menus and settings for CA on a 5504 but it doesn't seem to do any advancing. CA is globally set to "ON" in the Setup options for playback. Any hidden settings perhaps? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## clambert11

*Quote:*

How confident are we that CA actually works. I have all the menus and settings for CA on a 5504 but it doesn't seem to do any advancing. CA is globally set to "ON" in the Setup options for playback. Any hidden settings perhaps? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
It works. If you have not used CA before, it depends a lot on your source. If you have cable, and the quality is average to poor, CA is going to struggle and probably not work too well.


I've got satellite (DTV - I gave up on cable quality) and I'd say it's 85 - 90% accurate.


Try it out on different channels and shows. It should work if you have a good source input. You should also know that it doesn't work on live tv or shows that aren't delayed for at least an hour or more. I think it's an hour anyway. If not, I'm sure someone will correct me.


Also worth noting... It's nothing like hitting the Show | Nav button. It's much more accurate than that.


As far as hidden settings, there really aren't any. But you'll notice that the input button on your 55xx remote is now a CA button. This allows for enabling & disabling of CA on the fly.


Good luck!


----------



## hilbert1862

CA sure depends on the source. I too dropped comcast for DTV.


But you can experiment with pause delay. Ten minutes might do it.


----------



## tooncis

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*The ReplayTV doesn't execute the shell commands until the very end of the net connect. Since you had to power cycle the ReplayTV before completion of the net connect, they probably didn't get executed. Try again.


Also, the "DisableSoftwareDownload" regedit value is pointless now. Once you get back to a build prior to 144, you will have to net connect via WiRNS all the time if you want to keep CA and IVS. Thus, don't include the "DisableSoftwareDownload" setting. Just use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin + GetShellCommands.dll + CA/IVS regedit comands.*
It worked, but now (after a second reboot) my replay just sits there at the "Please wait...." screen and blinks....it won't start up.


How do I wake this thing up? I've tried to hold down the power button to force a reboot and I unplugged it for 15 mins....neither worked.


----------



## scootss

Just a thought...


FWIW: I have two downgraded 5500s and lost CA/IVS and will be doing the latest tricks to re-enable the features...


Anyway,

Anyone remember the DirecTV battle, where the company played a cat and mouse game with the "hackers" and over a few months would change something in the code that required minor tweaks on the hacker's parts. This went along fine for a while until one particular update came along and trashed all the hacked cards...


I'm VERY much aware that this is a fundamentally different situation because in the directv story, the users were "stealing" premium content...which is not happening here.


But what if Replay decided to delete both our partitions (no biggie for anyone that's doing both of these mods, i suppose)...or disable the fan so the HD crashes, or...


you get my drift. I doubt it would ever happen...but just something that crossed my mind.


That said, I can't wait until I have time this weekend to get CA back!


----------



## repnewbie

^^^ That will never happen. This is America. We have lawyers hungrily waiting for a day like that.


----------



## icecow

Quote:

_Originally posted by scootss_
*

But what if Replay decided to delete both our partitions (no biggie for anyone that's doing both of these mods, i suppose)...or disable the fan so the HD crashes, or...
*
I can't believe that would ever happen



However, recently the author of a Macintosh program called Echelon released version 1.0 so that if it was registered with a blacklisted serial number the home directory would be moved to the /tmp folder. Upon a reboot the temp folder is deleted. It's equivlant to a rm -rf ~.


Needless to say people were pzzed. The software is no longer offered at all. I don't know the rest of the story. Canabalized by lawyers maybe?


----------



## scootss

So I'm fairly confident that I know the answer to this...


If I use the Wirns method and do all my guide updates through their, will I lose 'myreplaytv.com' accessibility to my box?


I have and use DVA, but I have trouble accessing my home IP from work (which is usually when I think to record something)


And in order to remain active with Poopli, I would need to use the new updater, right?


Thanks,

-S


----------



## MethodMachine

Quote:

_Originally posted by scootss_
*So I'm fairly confident that I know the answer to this...


If I use the Wirns method and do all my guide updates through their, will I lose 'myreplaytv.com' accessibility to my box?


I have and use DVA, but I have trouble accessing my home IP from work (which is usually when I think to record something)
*
Is you IP trouble due to a dynamic IP address? If so, check out http://www.no-ip.com. 


I liked their free service so much, I registered a domain and am now running a mail, web, and DVAScheduling server over my dynamic IP DSL account.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by scootss_
*So I'm fairly confident that I know the answer to this...


If I use the Wirns method and do all my guide updates through their, will I lose 'myreplaytv.com' accessibility to my box?


I have and use DVA, but I have trouble accessing my home IP from work (which is usually when I think to record something)


And in order to remain active with Poopli, I would need to use the new updater, right?


Thanks,

-S*
WIRNS should pass through MRTV data so it should work the same as

it does without WIRNS.


I think at some point Arch may get rid of the MRTV updater, but I think

it is still running.


----------



## Creech

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*WIRNS should pass through MRTV data so it should work the same as

it does without WIRNS.


I think at some point Arch may get rid of the MRTV updater, but I think

it is still running.*
I hope that Archie waits until somebody has finished porting his updater to linux or OSX...


----------



## tooncis

If for some reason my replay updates again, the .bak file will not be a usable version (like it is now to revert back to CA and IVS on 50xx). Can you make a backup copy of it in the shellcmds....


mv boot.state boot.state.old


So you don't have to re-image...


----------



## Jeff D

the boot.state file is tied directly to the files in the sys directory. So, if you are asking if you can copy that file elsewhere (say the photo paritition) for later use... It won't really work well. This file changes.


Of course keeping a backup is never a bad idea.


----------



## Bigjohns

if I have to run wirns 24/7 for some reason... but I don't want WIRNS guide data.... because it does not validate the repeat flag, etc .... what 'plugins' can I disable?


----------



## rbolen70

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*if I have to run wirns 24/7 for some reason... but I don't want WIRNS guide data.... because it does not validate the repeat flag, etc .... what 'plugins' can I disable?*
It would be easier to just use what you need. (i.e. ServerManagement, NoSoftwareUpdate, GetShellCommands, etc)


----------



## scootss

If I start using WiRNS, am I still getting (by default) replay's guide data. I was thinking that I would then be using zap to it guide data. Am I wrong? (I think so  )


Method Machine,

Thanks for the link. I have a couple of sites that I use zonedit with, and I can't get to them from my corporate network. I see the title that I have given the site in the zonedit config, but I don't see the site data (I think it's because my corp. policy blocks that type of redirection...


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by scootss_
*If I start using WiRNS, am I still getting (by default) replay's guide data.*
If you only run the ServerManagement, NoSoftwareUpdate and GetShellCommands plugins, you'll still be getting the regular ReplayTV guide data.


----------



## Bigjohns

And I'd suppose that I just remove the other plugins from the plugin folder?


----------



## rbolen70

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bigjohns_
*And I'd suppose that I just remove the other plugins from the plugin folder?*
Correct.


Stop WiRNS

Remove other pluggins

Start WiRNS


----------



## SeeSpotRun

I have a 5504 which has not net connected since before the new software came out. Also, it has not had the registry changes to enable CA or IVS.


If I understand correctly, I need to run WiRNS from now on (when that unit net connects) and I need to always use the NoSoftWareUpdate plugin and I need to use the ShellCommands plugin with the commands to change those registry entries the first time. Also, since the new software hasn't been downloaded yet, I won't have the rebooting problem.


Is that correct?


Lastly, since this unit has lifetime and is only used for playback and I don't care about the tv guide on it, can I change the connection method to phone (and not plug in a phone cord), yet still have it connected to my network to playback shows from DV Archive or another Replay?


Thanks,


-SeeSpotRun


----------



## sfhub

You needs GSC with the registry commands to enable CA/IVS the first

time, then you need to have empty shellcmds file so the server doesn't

get to send you disabe CA/IVS registry entries.


nosoftwareupdate you need to have running all the time.


The above is assuming you are doing nightly net connects.


Otherwise, as long as you don't care about the clock being accurate or

channel guide data, once you enable everything, you can just pull the

network cable and it'll work fine, but essentially you are going through all

the effort just to enable the CA and IVS is pretty much unusable in this

config.


----------



## SeeSpotRun

I do realize that if I don't have the unit net connect I won't be able to do IVS. I do want the network cable in so I can stream from other sources and I want the unit to do CA. Really CA is my goal, not IVS.


-SeeSpotRun


----------



## Lark888

Quote:

You need GSC with the registry commands to enable CA/IVS the first time, then you need to have empty shellcmds file so the server doesn't

get to send you disabe CA/IVS registry entries.
I thought that I would need to keep the CA/IVS enable entries in the shellcmds file for every connect. This has been working based on multiple connects. Once, I connected without any shellcmds file and lost CA/IVS until the next connect with the proper shellcmds.


And as long as I'm asking questions (been holding back... )


I didn't connect my 5504 until I had WiRNS running. The first time, it updated fine and I don't think it rebooted. On a subsequent update, I got a downloading software and it now reboots after every net connect but stays with the 019 version software. Works but I'd prefer if it didn't reboot - can I reimage to virgin 019 version and try again?


I do get an INFO (unhandled exception) error message on every connect - doesn't seem to cause a problem. I'm not at my WiRNS server and don't have the exact error wording - I'll get it if it matters.


Just a couple of lurker newbie questions that I couldn't figure out from DEEP UNDERCOVER lurking.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lark888_
*I thought that I would need to keep the CA/IVS enable entries in the shellcmds file for every connect. This has been working based on multiple connects. Once, I connected without any shellcmds file and lost CA/IVS until the next connect with the proper shellcmds.
*
I might be making a statement based how I remember it works rather

than how it really works, but I'm assuming an "empty" shellcmds file

is different than "deleting" the shellcmds file. Difference being empty

shellcmds will not take the shellcmds from replay servers (but I could

be wrong), while no shellcmds will take the shellcmds from replay servers.


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lark888_
*I didn't connect my 5504 until I had WiRNS running. The first time, it updated fine and I don't think it rebooted. On a subsequent update, I got a downloading software and it now reboots after every net connect but stays with the 019 version software. Works but I'd prefer if it didn't reboot - can I reimage to virgin 019 version and try again?*
I think earlier in the thread people mentioned this was related to enabling

the "DisableSoftwareDownload" registry entry. Try setting it to 0 or

removing the registry entry.


----------



## moyekj

Quote:

_Originally posted by sfhub_
*I think earlier in the thread people mentioned this was related to enabling

the "DisableSoftwareDownload" registry entry. Try setting it to 0 or

removing the registry entry.*
You have to remove that entry to make the reboots stop. I run a script every day (when I remember to do it) to start Wirns and run net connect on my 5504 since I don't like keeping pc on 24/7 just to run Wirns. No problems and CA is still fine (don't use IVS on that machine), so looks like DNNA has stopped messing with us for now.


----------



## rbolen70

It keeps rebooting because it still has the "setup" file for the newer software. I'm assuming that you had to revert & now after a netconnect, it says that it needs to reboot for the new software.


This is easy. put the following 2 lines in your shellcmds file and then remove after a netconnect.


cdsys

mv tmp/_Manifest tmp/_Manifest.bak


----------



## dfjkl

No, it is more likely rebooting from what sfhub describes above. I had the same issue (look a ways back in this thread) when I enabled that registry entry. I instead just use the "NoSoftwareUpdate" plugin to wirns and removed the offending registry entry and I am fine without nightly reboots.


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lark888_
*didn't connect my 5504 until I had WiRNS running. The first time, it updated fine and I don't think it rebooted. On a subsequent update, I got a downloading software and it now reboots after every net connect but stays with the 019 version software. Works but I'd prefer if it didn't reboot - can I reimage to virgin 019 version and try again?*
I'm guessing you probably still have the DisableSoftwareDownload command in your shellcmds file. Try removing it by following the directions in this post . Don't forget to take it out after you do the net connect.


Be sure to continue to use the nosoftwareupdate plug.


[DOH! dfjkl reponded already and I missed it. Sorry about that. ]


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*You have to remove that entry to make the reboots stop. I run a script every day (when I remember to do it) to start Wirns and run net connect on my 5504 since I don't like keeping pc on 24/7 just to run Wirns. No problems and CA is still fine (don't use IVS on that machine), so looks like DNNA has stopped messing with us for now.*
Could you share this script with us? I'd be interested.


----------



## kurhurdler

Quote:

_Originally posted by moyekj_
*You have to remove that entry to make the reboots stop. I run a script every day (when I remember to do it) to start Wirns and run net connect on my 5504 since I don't like keeping pc on 24/7 just to run Wirns. No problems and CA is still fine (don't use IVS on that machine), so looks like DNNA has stopped messing with us for now.*
do I remove the entry, or do I set it to '0' again?


----------



## sfhub

Quote:

_Originally posted by kurhurdler_
*do I remove the entry, or do I set it to '0' again?*
Remove the entry.
Code:


Code:


regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1
regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1
regedit delete SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload


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## Lark888

Wow! Thanks for the help. I used the following and the reboot stopped.


One connect with this additional line:

regedit delete SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload


==> System rebooted


Next connect with line removed; just the CA and IVS lines


==> NO system reboot


Sigh - I like it when "a plan comes together". !!!!


Running WiRNS 24/7 on an old IBM Aptiva (64 MB memory, 166 Mhz Pentium) and now continuing to enjoy my 5504s and 5040 replays.


----------



## topdj1

Quote:

_Originally posted by dfjkl_
*As a matter of fact, Wirns and DVArchive CANNOT be running at the same time on the same machine. They both fight over port 80.*
So can I run Wirns on one computer and dvarchive on another? I have 5 replays and 4 computers on my network. All of my replays are 5000 units but I am giving one of my 5000s to my daughter and replacing it with a 5500. I want to have CV and IVS on it. Is there a step by step install doc somewhere on this site?


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by topdj1_
*So can I run Wirns on one computer and dvarchive on another? I have 5 replays and 4 computers on my network. All of my replays are 5000 units but I am giving one of my 5000s to my daughter and replacing it with a 5500. I want to have CV and IVS on it. Is there a step by step install doc somewhere on this site?*
You can run them on seperate computers, or using XP, you can setup more than one IP address for your PC. DVA runs on one IP. WiRNS on the other.

This post by moyekj helped me resolve another issue I was having with Guide data. I actaully haven't gone through it step by step, but other users have praised it. There is all kinds of info in this thread you are in now, but some of it is a little dated. As far as I know, moyekj's concise instructions are really the only ones that have been posted that are current and thorough.


Good luck.


----------



## gsulliva

I'm now using WiRNS (batch nightly not 24hrs) on my 5504 without problem. If I want to start using IVS option does WiRNS have to be running during the transfer? Wondering since my DNS now points to that machine.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by gsulliva_
*I'm now using WiRNS (batch nightly not 24hrs) on my 5504 without problem. If I want to start using IVS option does WiRNS have to be running during the transfer? Wondering since my DNS now points to that machine.*
Yes. It will need to be running to start the transfer and at various other points during the transfer.


----------



## SeeSpotRun

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*Yes. It will need to be running to start the transfer and at various other points during the transfer.*
Is this for incoming, outgoing or both?


-SeeSpotRun


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by SeeSpotRun_
*Is this for incoming, outgoing or both?


-SeeSpotRun*
WiRNS must be running for any part of the IVS process during which your ReplayTV needs to be able to query the DNS server (WiRNS IP in this case) for rddns-production.replaytv.net. On the sending side, this means you will have to have WiRNS running in order to initially send the show. After that, as long as your WAN IP doesn't change, you should be okay without WiRNS. On the receiving side, you should be able to intially receive the show without WiRNS (provided your WAN IP hasn't changed since the last RDDNS update). However, you will need WiRNS running to be able to accept the show and actually start the transfer. Once the transfer starts (which can take up to 30 minutes), it will continue without WiRNS running as long as nothing interrupts it, which inevitably something will. At that point, the transfer will stall until it is able to access DNS again (i.e. until WiRNS is running).


----------



## SeeSpotRun

Ok, so if I am only interested in sending shows from my replay using WiRNS and I have a static ip address, then WiRNS only needs to be running when I initially put in someone's IVS address and send the show. Once their unit has been given the chance to accept the show, I don't need WiRNS anymore, right?


-SeeSpotRun


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by SeeSpotRun_
*Ok, so if I am only interested in sending shows from my replay using WiRNS and I have a static ip address, then WiRNS only needs to be running when I initially put in someone's IVS address and send the show. Once their unit has been given the chance to accept the show, I don't need WiRNS anymore, right?


-SeeSpotRun*
If by static IP you mean a static IP from your Internet provider, then in theory it should work just as you describe. Even if you have a DHCP IP from your ISP, you should be fine unless it changes often.


----------



## SeeSpotRun

Quote:

_Originally posted by j.m._
*If by static IP you mean a static IP from your Internet provider, then in theory it should work just as you describe.*


Yes, I do mean static IP from my Internet provider for my router.


-SeeSpotRun


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## Sean_S

Hi, guys.


I have a 5504 at build 1440. It was at this build out-of-the-box as I just got it last week.


I'm currently running through WiRNS to get a customized guide.


So, I want to get CA and IVS. It appears that my option is to image my hard drive with a pre-1440 build such as 1430 or 1190, and then connect through WiRNS 24/7 utilizing nosoftwareupdate and gsc with the CA and IVS registry values commands.


So my questions are:


"Do I use RTVPatch to image my drive?"


"I have downloaded the image file 5504_50103.rtv. Will this image file, along with RTVPatch, be all I need to accomplish my task?"


"Where can I find a discussion of how to do this?" -- I've searched at Sourceforge, AVS, and Planet Replay, but have only seen this program being used to format new drives by copying against another drive, not by using an image file. I'm pretty capable, so if I'm missing something, just a quick rundown of the process should be enough. Searching is not really paying off for me.


Much appreciated,

Sean


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Sean_S_
*"Do I use RTVPatch to image my drive?"

"I have downloaded the image file 5504_50103.rtv. Will this image file, along with RTVPatch, be all I need to accomplish my task?"

"Where can I find a discussion of how to do this?"*
1) Yes

2) You don't want that image, that software is very old.

3) Have you looked at the nearly all inclusive: www.replaytvupgrade.com ?


----------



## clambert11

I would try reverting to the previous software version for sh!t & giggles before re-imaging off the bat. If it's build 19 or 140, you're golden. If not, you may want to re-image depending on how old the software is.


Go here to use j.m.'s directions on reverting to the last version software.


-- Craig


----------



## Sean_S

Gary and Craig, thanks!


I will try to use the GSC in the link to revert to the older version. I'm not at home, but now that I think about it the unit did take a download the first time I connected, so the older version is probably still in there.


Thanks.


Sean


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Sean_S_
*So the older version is probably still in there.*
The only problem with that might be how old the older version is.


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## Sean_S

Gary, thanks. I guess I skimmed to fast. I see on one of the guides linked to your page a mention of using RTVPatch to load an image. I just missed that. I'm going to image my drive first, then I'll try the shell command to force it to load the archived firmware.


BTW, how 'bout them Cards?!


Sean


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## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by Sean_S_
*I'm going to image my drive first, then I'll try the shell command to force it to load the archived firmware.*
Re-imaging the drive or reverting to earlier software via shellcmds is an either/or situation. If you re-image to a particular software version, there's no need to do the reverting procedure. Likewise if you successfully revert using WiRNS and shellcmds, there's no need to re-image the drive. And all of this refers to software on the drive, there's nothing involving firmware here (re-imaging or reverting).


----------



## Sean_S

Gary, I've decided to use the shell commands.


Above, I meant that I'm going to TAKE and image of my drive first. Better safe than sorry. 


I'm gonna give it a shot tonight.


Sean


----------



## Sean_S

The shell command reverted my box to the 1100 software. It seems to run a little "flakey"...I've had to reboot a few times. Anyone familiar with this build? CA and IVS are working though.


Anyone have a build 1430 image they would like to share? 


Sean


----------



## clambert11

Honestly, I would re-image if it's not too much of a hassle for you. Ideally, you wanted builds 19 or 140. There is no build 143 that I am aware of. It would probably be worth the extra effort IMHO @ this point. Your other option is just to ride it out until the 90 day warranty expires.


-- Craig


----------



## Sean_S

I already took an image of the drive in case the shell command screwed me. So that shows you how concerned I am about the warranty.  But, yeah, I don't like 1100. Do you know where I can download a 1400 image? Much appreciated.


BTW, the IDE cable connecting the drive internally had a half-broken cable retainer on the plug....very shoddy workmanship. I replaced the cable with a spare to be on the safe side.


Sean


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by Sean_S_
*I already took an image of the drive in case the shell command screwed me. So that shows you how concerned I am about the warranty.  But, yeah, I don't like 1100. Do you know where I can download a 1400 image? Much appreciated.
*
Try here . You probably won't find the 140 build, although it's possible. It was a depot build for the refurbs before 144 was released. One of my units actually is running it.


19 is what you're probably going to want to look for, as it was the main build released before 144. If they have it for a 5040, that should be fine also. Actually, that's how the whole CA & IVS thing was made public. Someone, DarkScreen I think, put a 5040 image on a 5504 and it enabled the features. The next day or so, j.m. released shellcmds to enable them without opening the box.


I'm not really sure what images are available or what the site has, as I haven't had a need.


If there is a better site with more images, someone please let him know.


-- Craig


----------



## Sean_S

Thanks, Craig. I got the 19 build imaged. Odd that it couldn't successfully netconnect until I accessed it via DVArchive from my PC. But now it's working great with CA and IVS enabled. Much better than build 1100 which didn't have show|nav.


Got a UFA6131 remote and now I'm set....for now. 


Thanks, guys. As usual, AVS comes through.


----------



## spirto

I followed directions and have successfully utilized WiRNs to activate CA & IVS. I haven't tested IVS but CA works beautifully. However, In-Home sharing doesn't seem to work anymore. The devices see each other but the program list is inaccurate. Plus if you select a program to play remotely results in device access errors.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## clambert11

Try rebooting the RTV's.


----------



## jgmace

I also successfully enabled CA and IVS, however when I do a net connect through Wirns everything seems to be OK until the very end. I then an error message saying that there was a problem and the RTV will try again later. Any suggestions?


----------



## chain777

Which image did you use?


----------



## jgmace

5040_530510190.rtv


Also using Wirns v 0.7a


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by jgmace_
*5040_530510190.rtv


Also using Wirns v 0.7a*
The error you mention was due to a bug in that version of WiRNS. Update to one of the 1.x versions, as the problem is fixed there.


----------



## jgmace

Thanks for the information. I updated to the 1.1.2 version and still no luck. When I attempt a net connect it does not seem to be getting past Wirns. I have the following settings on the RTV


IP 192.168.11.4

NETMASK 255.255.255.0

GATEWAY 192.168.11.100 (same as PC with Wirns)

DNS Server 1 192.168.11.100 (same as PC with Wirns)


I assume Wirns has to be running during the connect. Yes?

I also have this RTV setup on a wireless Buffalo network. The one it is connected to is in acting as a bridge. It's IP is 192.168.11.255


DVArchive see the replay as wall at the other Replays on the network.


Any thoughts as to what I am doing wrong?


Also when Wirns is open it continously has a Spoofing response of ## bytes message appearing.. See below:


C:\\Program Files\\wirns-1.1.2b>WiRNS.exe -server

[2005-02-05 15:40:52] WiRNS v1.1.2 build 1285 - (c) 2004 kjac

[2005-02-05 15:40:52] Thanks: ijprest, waynethedvrguy, Remmer99, gduprey, LeeTho

mpson, j.m., archdog99, FlipFlop and all the other Replay Hackers out there.

[2005-02-05 15:40:52] Initializing.

[2005-02-05 15:40:52] Cleaning up database.

[2005-02-05 15:40:52] Vacuuming database

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Detected that I'm running from command line.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Loading configuration

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Starting guide update timer.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Detected configuration settings. Starting Replay Emulatio

n server on: 192.168.11.100

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Loading server plugins.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Loading ReplayZone genre data.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: ChannelGuideProvider.dll (1.0.1549.1268) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: GetShellCommands.dll failed to load.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: GuideServer.dll (1.0.1549.1267) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: HeadendProvider.dll (1.0.1549.1265) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: NoSoftwareUpdate.dll (1.0.1693.28589) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: PutSyslogProvider.dll (1.0.1549.1265) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: ServerManagment.dll (1.0.1549.1264) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: XactProvider.dll (1.0.1549.1270) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: ZipcodeProvider.dll (1.0.1549.1272) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Replay Network Server Emulation started.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Starting configuration server on 127.0.0.1:8923

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Loading server plugins.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Plugin: ServerManagment.dll (1.0.1549.1264) loaded.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Replay Network Server Emulation started.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Starting ntp proxy server.

[2005-02-05 15:40:53] Starting DNS Proxy

[DNS] micro_dns initializing

[DNS] Attempting to reply with 192.168.11.100 for production queries.

[DNS] Attempting to proxy non-production requests to 192.168.11.100.

[DNS] micro_dns listing on port 53

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 64 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes

[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by jgmace_
*

GATEWAY 192.168.11.100 (same as PC with Wirns)
*
Don't use WiRNS IP here. Use the IP of your normal gateway--i.e. your router (probably 192.168.11.1).

Quote:

*

I assume Wirns has to be running during the connect. Yes?
*
Yes.

Quote:

*

I also have this RTV setup on a wireless Buffalo network. The one it is connected to is in acting as a bridge. It's IP is 192.168.11.255
*
Are you sure about that IP? That is not a valid IP for a network device. That is a broadcast address. If you do somehow have that IP assigned, you need to change it.


----------



## jgmace

I have tried to set the Gateway as suggested and it does not update. I have tried to set the RTV IP to a number outside of the DCHP assignable range (2 - 18) and it hangs. I am beginning to wonder if the hard drive is beginning to fail.


The buffalo bridge has a IP of 192.168.11.254. It has been working for several months with this IP.


I guess I'll continue to struggle with it tomorrow. Thanks for the help JM


----------



## jgmace

I seem to have made a little progress. I can get the unit to conncet through Wirns and update all the information. It completes up to the "Combining Data" stage and hags at 75%.


This appears to be the error message


INFO] Exception caught in handler: Object reference not set to an instance of a

n object.

at WiRNS.Server.ReplayNetworkServer.ProxyRequest(String message, Byte[] conte

nt, Boolean returnHeaders)

at WiRNS.Server.ReplayNetworkServer.HandleMessage(String message, Byte[] requ

estContent, Socket handler)

at WiRNS.Server.ReplayNetworkServer.ReadCallBack(IAsyncResult l_AsyncRes)


----------



## j.m.

Is that error with WiRNS 1.x?


----------



## jgmace

Yes. Wirns 1.1.2b


----------



## jgmace

All is well now. I had put the wrong entry for the DNS server in the Wirns set up page.


Thanks


----------



## tivoboy

you know, my CA just last night started not working at all. It had been working fine up till then.


this box is always connected to the internet, any idea why it would stop now? Could it be the broadcast tags? I am not sure what was on it before, but it has 530511440. I would imagine that it had that on it a while. Is there a way to check when the last software update was, some ZONE code?


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*you know, my CA just last night started not working at all. It had been working fine up till then.


this box is always connected to the internet, any idea why it would stop now? Could it be the broadcast tags? I am not sure what was on it before, but it has 530511440. I would imagine that it had that on it a while. Is there a way to check when the last software update was, some ZONE code?*
Yeah, that build stops CA & IVS from working.


-- Craig


----------



## tivoboy

thanks

shouldn't I have gotten that build, like a LONG time ago though?


----------



## clambert11

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*thanks

shouldn't I have gotten that build, like a LONG time ago though?*
Well, if you're not running the nosoftwareupdate for WiRNS then yes. That build was pushed awhile ago.


----------



## j.m.

Quote:

_Originally posted by tivoboy_
*you know, my CA just last night started not working at all. It had been working fine up till then.


this box is always connected to the internet, any idea why it would stop now? Could it be the broadcast tags? I am not sure what was on it before, but it has 530511440. I would imagine that it had that on it a while. Is there a way to check when the last software update was, some ZONE code?*
By not working, do you mean isn't available as an option at all or just doesn't skip correctly. My guess is that you mean the latter. If you have a 50xx (as opposed to a 55xx), IVS and CA are not disabled by any software version. If commercials aren't being skipped on your 50xx, there could be lots of reasons for that including poor cable signal.


----------



## bsoplinger

Dumb question here. To enable IVS/CA on a machine that's gotten the new build/software, I'm at the use RVTPatch to install an older version of the software and then use WiRNs and then the don't update thingie?


----------



## mhargr03

Quote:

_Originally posted by bsoplinger_
*Dumb question here. To enable IVS/CA on a machine that's gotten the new build/software, I'm at the use RVTPatch to install an older version of the software and then use WiRNs and then the don't update thingie?*
Fine question, just dumbly worded.


You must get an older version of the software on your drive via RTVPatch and then you must run WiRNS 24/7. All the details are in this thread, as well as at www.replaytvupgrade.com , specifically here


----------



## j.m.

As described elsewhere by me (probably somewhere in this thread), you can often revert to the previous version of the software without using RTVPatch by instead using WiRNS + GetShellCommands. This only works if your RTV was running a pre-144 build and then received the update via download, which will almost always be the case.


----------



## bsoplinger

I tried that (the method of making the RTV go back a version) and either I did it wrong or I'm on of the SOL cases. My question still stands


----------



## l8er

Quote:

_Originally posted by bsoplinger_
*My question still stands*
And the answer still stands in this thread and elsewhere.


----------

