# Barco HDMI/DVI-HDCP board that replaces Port 3?



## kal

There's a 1209s and a 1208s on ebay now (see item 5840196615 and 5840204627) that feature HDMI/DVI-HDCP boards that actually replace the port 3 board ...


Anyone know what they're using to do this? Did they stick a Moome universal board in a slot or something?


Moome doesn't make boards for Barco's (yet), so I was suprised to see this.


Kal


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## jtnfoley

There's a "Barco HDMI card" on a french AV site, but it looks like a daughter-board. I'll try to google it up again...


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## jtnfoley

gettin closer... it was at cinetson
http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB2/viewt...17d07366da2e1d


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## MadMrH

I asked the seller about these a couple of days ago...no news yet so I have not posted......


One does look better installed than the other....


Maybe ask for for internal pictures....


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## jtnfoley

Get a load of the cable here:
http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB2/viewt...asc&&start=270 


I think the module I'd seen has DVI in and Port 3 out.


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## jtnfoley

Yep, that's what it looks like:
http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB2/viewt...asc&&start=255


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## kal

I don't really want to bug the guy since I'm not interested in buying (and the need for HDMI is a good 6-12 months away anyway). Was more curiosity then anything else.


I know that Moome's working on a Barco unit, not to mention he has a universal (external) one as well...


Kal


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## kal

Jtnfoley: You mean this one here? (Your links don't bring up any images for me).

http://johnhwman.chez.tiscali.fr/Pro...07B/BG-DVI.jpg 


Kal


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## kal

Here's a directory with some extra info:

http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH...rojet_sil907b/ 


Including:


French user manual for the Barco 808 external module: http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH...ice_BG-DVI.pdf 


Schematics: http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH..._converter.pdf 


Kal


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## jtnfoley

Yep... looks like it plugs into Port 3 and the COMMS 800 port. Clever, but probably not the cleanest signal path.

The pics I was referring to were the BG-DVI1 and BG-DVI2.


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## kal

Either way it's good to see that there's more the one solution in the works. By the time I'm interested in this (a good year or so away - after the HD-DVD/blueray dust settles), it should be fairly easy to pick on solution and go with it.


Kal


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## RVonse

The guy on ebay wants $600 for the parts with instructions with them or $950 if you send in your port 3 card and convergence tray.


I'm waiting to see what Moome comes up with.


Wish I knew how to read French.


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kal*
Here's a directory with some extra info:
http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH...rojet_sil907b/ 

Including:

French user manual for the Barco 808 external module: http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH...ice_BG-DVI.pdf 

Schematics: http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/JohnH..._converter.pdf 

Kal
Hi Kal,


I'm the designer of this BG-DVI module for Barco. This was made after the Sony (IFB-DVI version).


Just FYI, the schematic link you gave is the external prototype version made one year ago for testing purpose and was not produced since this design is not HDCP approved (external box).


The BG-DVI is powered through COMM.PORT 30V DC and the RGBHV output is feed to PORT3 with less than 20mm long analog paths. The module itself is hooked to the COMM and PORT3 plugs and screwed to them. Then the module become as a part of the projector. The french language manual shows some pics of the module installation on a 808.


It's size is very small and analog signal quality is very good (1080P). The main chip used is the same chip as moome's cards (HDCP, 10 bits VDACs and 165MHz video BW).


I've build more than 40 BG-DVI modules (including cabinet, all by hands  ) for french people that own Barco 1208/800/801/808 Pjs. They love this tiny toy 


John


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## Ninja77

John,


So is the price quoted above ($600) the going rate for this unit?


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Ninja77*
So is the price quoted above ($600) the going rate for this unit?
Surely not !


I sold these BG-DVI modules for 200 Euros including shippment fee


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## jtnfoley

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Surely not !


I sold these BG-DVI modules for 200 Euros including shippment fee 
I may have to undo my Port 3 mods and give this a whirl... Care to quote us prices inclusive of shipping to the US?


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## JohnHWman

Hi jtnfoley,


The price was including shipping for France and other countries too (including US). But be carefull, i'm close to finish the current batch of "production" (see : http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB2/viewt...8779&start=375 just one spare BG-DVI (#22))


Maybe I'll redo another batch of these Barco toys after Sony IFB-DVI new batch scheduled to take place in january (see http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB2/viewt...4030&start=828 )


Just warn you that these Barco and Sony toys are only produced in small quantities since chips are difficult to get and these are made by my own hands  (takes one week to build 5  )


John


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## kal

Hi John! Thanks for writing in on this thread! Nice to see someone doing this hard work with their own hands and not overpricing the results! Very nice indeed. This is what happens when HT enthusiates get involved in making products. If a major company was building these they'd build them for 1/2 the price but probably charge x2 as much!


Kal


P.S. Nice HT as well! Bravo! FÃ©licitations!


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## JohnHWman

Yeah kal, I'm only HT enthusiate guy for years that share his skill (digital electronic) with other people that are like me. I'm not doing these toys to make money because the selled price is not covering the handwork time 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *kal*
P.S. Nice HT as well! Bravo! FÃ©licitations!
Yes, thanks for the "fÃ©licitations". Your's very nice too.

I'm quite proud of it since I made all the room by myself. New PJ is coming : it's a Sony G90 with new tubes  ... I was waiting for this PJ for years and in awaiting, I've been using the G70 (got another for spare too  )


And for sure, these PJ are all equiped with IFB-DVI (HDCP) card in their extension slots 


John


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## Baggy

Would these work with a BD1209s?


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## kal

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Sony G90 with new tubes  ... I was waiting for this PJ for years and in awaiting, I've been using the G70 (got another for spare too  )
Wow! New tubes even! You won't be disappointed, that's for sure! I find it amazing how many enthusiasts are starting to pick up G90's these days. They used to only be available to the very rich... (I'm hoping to eventually have a Barco Cine9/909 myself! Someday!).


Kal


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## JohnHWman

Don't know Baggy ...


If the 1209 have a COMM. PORT and a PORT3 plugs separated with either 38 or 40mm, then yes.


Assuming that PORT3 plug is analog RGBHV input and not EGA TTL input (old ...)


John


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
The BG-DVI is powered through COMM.PORT 30V DC and the RGBHV output is feed to PORT3 with less than 20mm long analog paths. The module itself is hooked to the COMM and PORT3 plugs and screwed to them. Then the module become as a part of the projector. The french language manual shows some pics of the module installation on a 808.
This is an interesting design in that it is essentially an external box, just bolted to the PJ. The only think I don't like is now the signal is traveling through electronics that it would not need to go through if the card was an actually Port 3 replacement, thus the signal could be potentially cleaner than actually going through the port 3 card.


The other interesting thing would be to be able to hook it up to port 5 because port 5 on later model Barcos like the Cine series have better electronics than port 3 which retains the older design. So, whereas port 3 is better on older Barcos, port 5 is better on newer Barcos.


However, I must say, this is excellent work and quite a fair price. Do you have any intention of attempting to do an HDMI version that would support 10 and 12 bit?


Dave


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Don't know Baggy ...


If the 1209 have a COMM. PORT and a PORT3 plugs separated with either 38 or 40mm, then yes.


Assuming that PORT3 plug is analog RGBHV input and not EGA TTL input (old ...)


John
Yes and yes. If it worked with a 1208, it will work with a 1209s--no problem.


Dave


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
port 5 is better on newer Barcos.
Hello Dave,


If Port5 have +30V PS output close to its plug, then why not. In fact, the 30V (say 8 to 30V) PS is needed by the converter to power it the same time the BArco is fire up. There is however another option to use +5V delivered by the DVI or HDMI link but could cause issues with long run cables ...
Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
However, I must say, this is excellent work and quite a fair price. Do you have any intention of attempting to do an HDMI version that would support 10 and 12 bit?Dave
Thanks. But please consider that HDMI is the same as DVI-D for video purpose. You can link an HDMI output player to the BG-DVI module using the proper cable 


Another point about this module is that anybody can upgrade his Barco : no need to open the PJ and swap PCBs  ...


John


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## kal

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
The other interesting thing would be to be able to hook it up to port 5 because port 5 on later model Barcos like the Cine series have better electronics than port 3 which retains the older design. So, whereas port 3 is better on older Barcos, port 5 is better on newer Barcos.
Agreed! (Dave and I both have newer Zenith 1200's which are essentially Cine 8 Onyx clones).


The nice thing like you mentioned in a later post Dave is that yes, it's pretty much just an external box. There's no reason why you couldn't supply the thing the needed power (either internally or externally) and use a short external cable to go to port 5.


Kal


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## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Yes and yes. If it worked with a 1208, it will work with a 1209s--no problem.


Dave
Sounds like it might work then?


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kal*
There's no reason why you couldn't supply the thing the needed power (either internally or externally) and use a short external cable to go to port 5.
True Kal,

However this implementation (external cable) is forbiden by HDCP standard 

You can say that this BG-DVI is almost external but it's not really exact since the module must be screwed to the back of the PJ to work. Then no access to analog RGB, then HDCP hardware compliant 

John


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
Sounds like it might work then?
Yes Baggy


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## Baggy

John,

I've sent you a PM


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## pclausen

Hi John, that is a great little board you have there. I'm very interested in picking one up once Blu-Ray/HD DVDs come out. I might even be interested in one sooner if I upgrade my trustly old RCA DTC100 DirecTV receiver to the new MPEG4 Tivo box that is rumored to come out early next year.


I too would like to know if a HDMI version will become available and if an internal version is planned at some point in the future.


I was looking at the French forum and came across this picture of your workbench. You have great hand skills to be able to solder those tiny surface mount items with your bare hands like that!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/Bench.jpg


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## JohnHWman

pclausen


I quite suprise to see my SONY IFB-DVI workbench picture here (in fact my home living room table  ). Ah yes, I remember, this was some months ago when i've started to build those 30 IFB-DVI for Sony owners ...


There will not be a HDMI version since, this DVI-D module already work fine with HDMI players (it's just a question of cable type, and "voilÃ*").


Yes, about those tiny SMD components, but now I use a binoccular 10X magnifier equipment to keep my eyes safe ...


John


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## pclausen

Is it possible to locate the unit near the HDMI player instead of bolting the unit to the back of the projector if one was to feed it the 30V by some other means?


I ask because my conduits to my projector are not large enough to accomodate the DVI-D connector passing through them.


I was thinking of running a short HDMI to DVI-D cable from my HDMI player to your unit, and then use my existing DB-9 to DB-9 cable from here to the projector. Is that possible?


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## Z-Photo

Cool,


That looks like the same Weller solder station I just picked up. 


I just got done re-capping a number of Barco 808 input/RGB boards last night. Too much fun.


Pete


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Thanks. But please consider that HDMI is the same as DVI-D for video purpose. You can link an HDMI output player to the BG-DVI module using the proper cable 
Essentially true for 8 bit sources. If however we do eventually get 10 and/or 12 bit sources, then not having an HDMI connector will mean a loss of bit depth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
Is it possible to locate the unit near the HDMI player instead of bolting the unit to the back of the projector if one was to feed it the 30V by some other means?
In this solution, no. The reason being he is trying to follow the HDCP rules. HDCP rules are that the signal may be converted to analog within the device, but not external to the device. The rules are such so that you cannot obtain access to an unencrypted analog signal. Essentially, Hollywood wants to punish everyone for the sins of a few. Anyway, there are other external device solutions. Search for "moome".


Dave


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
In this solution, no. The reason being he is trying to follow the HDCP rules. HDCP rules are that the signal may be converted to analog within the device, but not external to the device. The rules are such so that you cannot obtain access to an unencrypted analog signal. Essentially, Hollywood wants to punish everyone for the sins of a few.
Yes Dave,


That's the point of these crazy HDCP rules (even, somebody can catch analog video, what can be done with 75 to 165MHz RGB signals  appart from displaying on a PJ ?)


John


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## Z-Photo

John,


Love the HT.

Just wish I understood what the French Instructions meant.


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## Inventor

Hi John,


My french is a little rusty, to say the least, but I managed to read through your thread about your design.


There you used a SIL907B-PUB. What implications does it have to use the PUB version?


What are you using in your newest design?


I am interested in getting one for my BG808.


Tomas


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## JohnHWman

Hello Thomas,


Great effort reading french posts !


The "-PUB" version of the IC is feed with generic 'public' HDCP keys to let non-licenced companies evaluating the device without paying the annual fee.


Even I was talking about such suffix, the "-PUB" version of the IC was not used on my converters since I can have normal IC feeded my company dedicated keys in it (my company is HDCP licenced for several years by now).


Many people here are looking for such toy but as said before, the current batch is over. Hope I can do a new batch of these after IFB-DVI Sony Pj next batch in january. I let you all know.


John


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## mrking

Nice little upgrade John!


Question. Will this input board inrease the PQ considerably over the regular port 5 when just feeding the projector with DVi from a STB DVD-player or an HTPC? I would suspect that the signl path would be alot cleaner?


Btw that HT is just BEAUTIFUL! A+ on that one!


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## Baggy

Hi John,


I see in the manual it quotes 1080p 50/60 hz, is it the same for all HDTV inputs?


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mrking*
Question. Will this input board inrease the PQ considerably over the regular port 5 when just feeding the projector with DVi from a STB DVD-player or an HTPC? I would suspect that the signl path would be alot cleaner?
Hi mrking,


Appart from the HDCP stuff that is comming soon for HD-DVD, the BG-DVI module is also interresting because of the increasing of the PQ. In fact, when long and/or poor coaxial cable path is used between STB/DVD player and the projector then, changing this long and/or poor analog path to digital (HDMI or DVI) is increasing the PQ quality even on port 3. That is mainly due to the fact that the RGB ananlog path become very short (even shorter than the STB/DVD player directly connected to Port 3 with 10 cm cables ...  ).


That is why digital video link in interresting in our HT dedicated rooms : this increase PQ 
Quote:

Btw that HT is just BEAUTIFUL! A+ on that one!
Thanks a lot, My wife and I love it too !


John


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
I see in the manual it quotes 1080p 50/60 hz, is it the same for all HDTV inputs?
Sorry baggy, I do not clearly understand your question 

There is only one HDTV input on the BG-DVI module  1080P @50 ou @60 Hz is the maximum resolution allowed by the module (165 MHz). For sure, the module sync itself to any (even specific/non-standard resolutions) from 25 to 165MHz !


John


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## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Sorry baggy, I do not clearly understand your question 

There is only one HDTV input on the BG-DVI module  1080P @50 ou @60 Hz is the maximum resolution allowed by the module (165 MHz). For sure, the module sync itself to any (even specific/non-standard resolutions) from 25 to 165MHz !


John
It wasn't a clear question ( been on nightshift) but you've given the answer I was looking for.

I was trying to ask if it would sync to both 50Hz & 60Hz HDTV signals.


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
I was trying to ask if it would sync to both 50Hz & 60Hz HDTV signals.
Yes, since these two HDTV modes (European and US) share the same pixelclock and 50Hz European mode have big front and back video porchs  .


John


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## Baggy

I ended up ordering one of these for my 1209.

John was very helpful and my unit arrived safely a few days ago.

I've had a little time to play with it now and it seems to work well.

I'm using a HTPC with a 7800GT video card and connect to it via a Bettercables DVID-9-DL cable.

I don't have a HDCP source so I can't verify that side of it.

I'm pleased with it, for the relatively small cost of 200 Euro it's given me greater flexibility. Hopefully when HDTV or HD DVD's eventually arrive in the UK I'll have no problems with connections.


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## JohnHWman

Thank for the small report Baggy,


Don't be affraid about HDCP, some other french people use it today with Pioneer or Denon flagship players HDMI output that have the HDCP enabled and it is working fine.


John


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## Baggy

Hi John,

I've disconnected from my HTPC and I'm now using it with the HD Leeza and Philips 963SDI combination that I also use.

Currently inputting [email protected]

As far as I can tell it works flawlessly.


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## WTS

Hi John,


Are you actually using the I2C logic from the barco to talk to the 907 chip, if so what are you cummunicating.


Thanks


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## jcwhite57

John any chance you would consider offering this device in kit form for those that are handy with fabrication?


Thanks


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## moome

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
Hi John,


Are you actually using the I2C logic from the barco to talk to the 907 chip, if so what are you cummunicating.


Thanks


ther no need talk between barco and 907, 907 need one edit to let dvi source know what mode can accept! i will make one cable for my external box, so can use for barco port3, any one have port3 pin definition?


thanks


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
Are you actually using the I2C logic from the barco to talk to the 907 chip, if so what are you cummunicating.
No WTS, in fact the 907 chip have IÂ²C port just for HDCP and EDID stuff (these lines are linked to DVI or HDMI input connector). Converter part of this device doesn't need any register set to work : it is synchronous to the digital video input. So no need to Barco or Sony PJ to talk with it  .

John


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moome*
ther no need talk between barco and 907, 907 need one edit to let dvi source know what mode can accept! i will make one cable for my external box, so can use for barco port3, any one have port3 pin definition?


thanks
 http://www.crtprojectors.co.uk/images/port_3.jpg 


But, HD15->DB9 cables are available from other sources so you don't really need to make one. The point of this approach is to make the device part of the projector, much like your internal cards. If it is part of the projector, then it is OK with the HDCP cops.


Dave


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moome*
ther no need talk between barco and 907, 907 need one edit to let dvi source know what mode can accept! i will make one cable for my external box, so can use for barco port3, any one have port3 pin definition?
Hello Moome,


Just both replied at the same time on the same question 


FYR Barco Port 3 port pinout (DB9-S) is :

1- Digital Ground

2- Red ground

3- Red

4- Green

5- Blue

6- Green ground

7- Blue ground

8- HS/CS

9- VS


John


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jcwhite57*
John any chance you would consider offering this device in kit form for those that are handy with fabrication? Thanks
Yeah, why not ?

But you must be aware that those tiny 0603 SMD components are quite difficult to solder without any binoccular magnifier ...


How about waranty then ?

You should also cut and drill the ABS cabinet by yourself 

BG-DVI device kit would just save some bucks (say E50 or so).


The main issue for me is getting the 907 IC ...


John


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## kal

I would never, in a million years, offer a DIY kit with SMD devices ... that's just asking for trouble.


Kal


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## WTS

Hi,


Well that depends on alot of things, what footprint the smd's have is the biggest concern. Big footprint smd's aren't too bad to work with even for an amatuer I'm sure. Come on Kal, now you're going to scare everyone one off if you keep talking like that.


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## kal

I understand where you're coming from Walter - there are lots of people (especially on this forum) that wouldn't have any problems soldering even smaller SMD parts, but if you look at how many problems DIY kit makers put up with because of incorrectly installed (discrete) components already (stuff installed backwards, stuff overheated, broken pins, etc), it would seem foolhardy to offer something that's even more difficult for the 'average' user.


Kal


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## WTS

Hi Kal,


I agree, its a risk I wouldn't really want to take as a supplier unless it had a big disclaimer written across the top.

I was just fooling with yea. Hell sometimes I even hate the sh!t.


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## plain fan

John,

Are you still planning on creating another batch of boards in January?

Thanks,


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## moome

thanks john and person 99, i will make cable for barco user!


thanks


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *plain fan*
Are you still planning on creating another batch of boards in January?
Yes, there is another batch of Sony IFB-DVI boards scheduled to be done in January and february but no BG-DVI batch until IFB-DVI boards completion 


John


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## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moome*
thanks john and person 99, i will make cable for barco user!
Then I warn you that you may have trouble with HDCP standard if you connect the Silicon Image IC at the end of the cable  ...


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## jcwhite57

John.

I understand your concerns about offering a DIY kit. I don't think anyone would expect a warranty. It sounded like in previous post it was difficult for you to produce these since they are hand made. Just so you'll know, I work for a large teir 1 electronics supplier to the automotive industry. It is common practice for us to replace smd components. It's not too bad if you have the right tools.


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## plain fan

Quote:

Yes, there is another batch of Sony IFB-DVI boards scheduled to be done in January and february but no BG-DVI batch until IFB-DVI boards completion
Thank you John, please keep us posted. One question though, you mention that your card requires the "new" port 3 on a Barco, not the "old" TTL-port 3. How do I determine which type of port I have on my Barco Graphics 800?

Thanks,

Grady


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *plain fan*
Thank you John, please keep us posted. One question though, you mention that your card requires the "new" port 3 on a Barco, not the "old" TTL-port 3. How do I determine which type of port I have on my Barco Graphics 800?

Thanks,

Grady
You have the "old" port 3. The new port 3 is on the Barco 801s and later.


Dave


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## JohnHWman

Hi Grady,


Barco Port 3 RGB input card reference = R7621055 (the right one for BG-DVI module)

Barco TTL input card reference = R761749 (The wrong one)


John


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## JMG

John, this begs the question, has anyone successfully swapped the old 761749 EGA CGA TTL board in the 800 with a newer RGB input board 7621055 from a 801. I checked the specs from Barco and found no reference to the 800 being built with anything other than the old board. You stated earlier that people were using your mod on the 800. Do you know what have they done to accept the signal?


Jeff


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## Deepsky4565

I'm eager to order when these are available! Please give us an update! Thank you.


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## DaveInVA

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JMG*
John, this begs the question, has anyone successfully swapped the old 761749 EGA CGA TTL board in the 800 with a newer RGB input board 7621055 from a 801. I checked the specs from Barco and found no reference to the 800 being built with anything other than the old board. You stated earlier that people were using your mod on the 800. Do you know what have they done to accept the signal?


Jeff
I tried it and it doesn't work. The motherboard connections may be different...



Dave


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## JohnHWman

As promised some time ago, the new batch of 20 BG-DVI module is going to start soon.


I'm ordering the PCBs, the cabinets and the BOM now 


Here is the list of AVS members who had contacted me on this subjet and make modules allocation :


1- rigman / cossie0 from Scotland for BG808s

2- pclausen for Barco 1208

3- Deepsky4565 for Barco 1208

4- Person99 for Zenith Pro 1200 X (Cine 8 Onyx) same port3/comm port config as the 808 

5- HenrikM from Sweden for Barco BR-1209/2

6-7- CRT-Master from Germany for two Barco 1209-s

8- Speedplay for BG808s

9- Laurent porcheron from France for BG808

10- SuperFrenchy31 from France for Barco 1209

11- Don Goulding from Australia for Barco BG1209

12- Jani Lehmuskoski from Finland for BG801s

13- Tedd from from Ontario, Canada for BD808

14- alan halvorson from Red Wing USA for BG808s

15- jalittam from Finland for BD808s

16- greg1292 Indiana from USA for Barco 1209

17- R.Bauer from The Netherlands for BG1209s

18- Inventor from Sweden for BG808

19-20 MadMrH from UK for BG1209s and BG1208s/E


All BG-DVI modules for this batch are allocated 


Please confirm or deny your interrest of being in this list.


Here is the specifications of the BG-DVI module :


- DVI-D input (100% digital). A HDMI -> DVI-D cable can be use to connect to an HDMI source.

- RGB 4:4:4 (8 bits) digital input.

- Compatible with non-HDCP or HDCP sources.

- Directly connect to Barco Comm Port and PORT3. Easy to install it within 5min.

- 10 bits 175MHz triple video DAC - Inter-DAC : 2%

- Output RVB-H/V video analog signals (0,7Vpp over 75 ohms impedance)

- Ultra short Analog links (


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
4- Person99 for ????
Hey John,


For a Zenith Pro 1200 X (Cine 8 Onyx). Same port3/comm port config as the 808.


Dave


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## Tedd

I'm in. Sent you a PM. BG808. Canada.


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## pclausen

Quote:

2- pclausen for ????
John, I have a Barco 1208


So if I pick up a HDMI to DVI cable (35 ft 24awg), I can plug the HDMI end into my Toshiba HD-1A HD-DVD player and the DVI end into your adaptor, and watch HD-DVD movies in 1080i on my 1208, right?


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
So if I pick up a HDMI to DVI cable (35 ft 24awg), I can plug the HDMI end into my Toshiba HD-1A HD-DVD player and the DVI end into your adaptor, and watch HD-DVD movies in 1080i on my 1208, right?
That's the plan.


----------



## studio

What was the price in US$'s?

Have a DIY or not?


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *studio*
What was the price in US$'s?

Have a DIY or not?
It is $200 Euros. So the exact price will be based upon the exchange rate when you pay.


Dave


----------



## geisemann

I take the Moomie box and wire internal right to the port 3 board.


Works great for my customers.


Greg


----------



## alan halvorson

Sent a PM. Put me down for one, for certain.


Alan Halvorson


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I take the Moomie box and wire internal right to the port 3 board.


Works great for my customers.


Greg
Just coax from moome to port 3 so it still goes through the port 3 board? If so, it would essentially be the same as John's.


I'm not thrilled with the moome external. You can see the other thread, but four of us compared an external to an internal on a G70 and the internal was substantially better.


Dave


----------



## RVonse

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I take the Moomie box and wire internal right to the port 3 board.


Works great for my customers.


Greg
So does the box sit inside the projector or outside? If it is inside the projector physically, how do you get the dvi cable connector in there to hook it up? If it is outside the projector, how do you get the internal signals from the box to the port?


----------



## RVonse

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
As promised some time ago, the new batch of 20 BG-DVI module is going to start soon.


I'm ordering the PCBs, the cabinets and the BOM now 


Later


John
John, could I ask a couple of questions? Is there a reason for the black case other than just for looks? Would you be willing to sell just the card without the black case for a little less cost?


Can you clarify on the HDCP, will this be complient when the flags are activated later?


Thanks for your economical alternative here, it is very very tempting for me.


----------



## HenrikM

Hi John


Yes I'm in. Will confirm by email also.


(Barco BG-1209/2)


Thanks


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
So if I pick up a HDMI to DVI cable (35 ft 24awg), I can plug the HDMI end into my Toshiba HD-1A HD-DVD player and the DVI end into your adaptor, and watch HD-DVD movies in 1080i on my 1208, right?
Yes pclausen, since 1080i mode is 74.25MHz pixelclock, 35 ft long (11.6m) will be OK. Pixel sparkling problems come when pixelclock is above 135MHz (1080P48) AND DVI cable lenght is above 8m long. However, some good quality cable (i.e. ethereal 1080P ready) can go at 1080P60 with 35 ft run.


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *studio*
What was the price in US$'s?

Have a DIY or not?
Hello Studio,

Don't know the price in USD, depend on exchange rate. Price was originally made in Euros (sorry  ), so â‚¬200 (unchanged for one year and a half now) including overseas shipment fee (in registered letter).


Payment can be made using Paypal or direct banking money transfert.


No, until today, no DIY Kit available, sorry.


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *RVonse*
So does the box sit inside the projector or outside? If it is inside the projector physically, how do you get the dvi cable connector in there to hook it up? If it is outside the projector, how do you get the internal signals from the box to the port?
Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Just coax from moome to port 3 so it still goes through the port 3 board? If so, it would essentially be the same as John's.
Not exactly  The BG-DVI module is DIRECTLY screwed to the back of the PJ (where COMM port and Port 3 SUB-D plugs stand). So no coaxial run and shortest RGB analog video link as possible (also HDCP rules compliant, i.e. no end-user access to decrypted analog video  )


This module become "a part of the PJ itself". See French user manual picture to view it in place at the back of a 808s 


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *RVonse*
John, could I ask a couple of questions? Is there a reason for the black case other than just for looks? Would you be willing to sell just the card without the black case for a little less cost?
Case color can be white, grey or black. That are the only colors that are available from the ABS plastic manufacturer. The module cannot be sell without the cabinet since this protect the electronic from end-user hands  (ESD, ...)
Quote:

Can you clarify on the HDCP, will this be complient when the flags are activated later?
I don't understand what you mean by "flags are activated later". The IC used inside this module is already filled with valid HDCP keys. Many French users are using it (say more than 100) by now with their HDCP DVD players without any issue.


John


----------



## R.Bauer

I would like to have 1 for a BG1209s. PM sent.


----------



## Inventor

Hi John,


I would like one for my BG808. PM sent.


Tomas


----------



## MadMrH

PM sent.


----------



## JohnHWman

All the BG-DVI module available on this batch are now allocated 


Please note that I will contact the forum members for payment only when their modules will be ready to be send. As said before, I usually take one week to build 5, so please be patient 


Looking forward from you about BG-DVI reviews upon received and tested 


John


----------



## Z-Photo

John,


I am very interested in the BG-DVI module but the new moderator decided I deserved a timeout  . Let me know if you have a spare or if someone else changes their mind.


Pete


----------



## secstate

And I would like to be on the waiting list after Z-Photo is another person changes their mind. This is what I get for not visiting the forum for a couple of days  .


----------



## geisemann

When I use the moomie I internally wire and totally bypass the port 3 and wire right to the board and I mount internally in the projector with a HDMI or DVI coming out of the unit. If you use an external box with port 5 the picture will be worse or use even a 10 foot RGBVH I have noticed 1080p peformance suffers. However you have to have a BW greater than 100mhz to see it. I also have noticed that port3 seems to get some ring at higher BW because it was not totally 75ohm engineered. Cable theory or transmission line we learn in EE classes is basic that you need to keep the reflections equal in the cable to balance and when it hits the port 3 it will have more if its not perfectly balanced. By using no cable and going directly to port 3 it should cut it way down and get less ring to none and better resolution.


So I would only recommend this if you own a 1208, 1209 or 808s with 120mhz. Might make a difference on the lower end barco units like 808 or 800


I will post a picture later what I do and I cut the connectons to port 3 on the card.


Greg


----------



## plain fan

John,

I asked before but missed your reply. How can I tell if your device will work with my BG 800 port 3? If it will work I'd be interested in one as well.

Grady


----------



## RVonse

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
When I use the moomie I internally wire and totally bypass the port 3 and wire right to the board and I mount internally in the projector with a HDMI or DVI coming out of the unit. If you use an external box with port 5 the picture will be worse or use even a 10 foot RGBVH I have noticed 1080p peformance suffers. However you have to have a BW greater than 100mhz to see it. I also have noticed that port3 seems to get some ring at higher BW because it was not totally 75ohm engineered. Cable theory or transmission line we learn in EE classes is basic that you need to keep the reflections equal in the cable to balance and when it hits the port 3 it will have more if its not perfectly balanced. By using no cable and going directly to port 3 it should cut it way down and get less ring to none and better resolution.


So I would only recommend this if you own a 1208, 1209 or 808s with 120mhz. Might make a difference on the lower end barco units like 808 or 800


I will post a picture later what I do and I cut the connectons to port 3 on the card.


Greg
It is very interesting to me when you talk about this ring. Because I noticed the same ring when I first connected up to port 3. Most notably with computer text, can't be seen with regular video. Even with the ring though, I also notice a clearer result and also seems "hotter" than port 5 RGBHV IMO.


So elliminating the transmission artifacts is exactly why I am so interested in going dvi with one of these converters. But if it is not hooked up properly there will be nothing gained.


I would be very interested in seeing what you have done. It sounds like an excellent idea to me.


----------



## VideoGrabber

plain fan asked:

> _How can I tell if your device will work with my BG 800 port 3?_


----------



## VideoGrabber

geisemann commented:

> _Might make a difference on the lower end barco units like 808 or 800_


----------



## Z-Photo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
When I use the moomie I internally wire and totally bypass the port 3 and wire right to the board and I mount internally in the projector with a HDMI or DVI coming out of the unit. If you use an external box with port 5 the picture will be worse or use even a 10 foot RGBVH I have noticed 1080p peformance suffers. However you have to have a BW greater than 100mhz to see it. I also have noticed that port3 seems to get some ring at higher BW because it was not totally 75ohm engineered. Cable theory or transmission line we learn in EE classes is basic that you need to keep the reflections equal in the cable to balance and when it hits the port 3 it will have more if its not perfectly balanced. By using no cable and going directly to port 3 it should cut it way down and get less ring to none and better resolution.


So I would only recommend this if you own a 1208, 1209 or 808s with 120mhz. Might make a difference on the lower end barco units like 808 or 800


I will post a picture later what I do and I cut the connectons to port 3 on the card.


Greg
Greg,


Now I am EXTREMELY interested to see you work. What boards are used in the mod - Port 3 and the RGB Board or just the Port 3 - I got a little confused on the internal hookup explaniation.


Pete


----------



## MadMrH

Picture tells a thousand words - I cant wait to see them..........


----------



## Daniel Bishop

Please add me to the list after Secstate in the event a couple of people change their mind...BG808.


Daniel Bishop


----------



## thorr

Please add me to the list also for a future batch or this batch if possible.


One question: are the HDCP keys in this box different than those used in Moome's external box?


Thanks,

Mike


----------



## leeky

John,


I am very interested in the BG-DVI module for my 1209s. Please add me to the list also for a future batch or this batch if possible.


Thanks,

KY


----------



## geisemann

The internal vs external box Moomie makes has the exact same chips and circurts.


Just when you add the cables etc you take away the gains so if you can mount internal right to the port 3 I get the best quality picture. One annoying thing is the NVIDIA drivers only let you go to 720p so you have to force your video card to go to 1080p then the moomie will work at 1080p. I am a little worried that it wont work on a 1080p new blue light?


Now If I could just get a tracking number from him as I have a few customers upset their cards are taking so long.


Greg


----------



## GEBrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
. . .

Now If I could just get a tracking number from him as I have a few customers upset their cards are taking so long.


Greg
Greg,


I asked Moome about tracking numbers, since I'm sure he gets inundated with "Where's my card" emails.


His reply was that by the time the Taiwan post office updates the tracking info, the customer has already received the card.


His recommendation was to go with the expedited shipping service (don't know if you did that or not). He said that the expedited service posts more reliable tracking information.


My only concern was that I when I received my card a while back (I did not get the expedited service) I converted the postage on the box from Taiwan dollars to US dollars and felt a little "taken".


My 2 cents


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Not exactly  The BG-DVI module is DIRECTLY screwed to the back of the PJ (where COMM port and Port 3 SUB-D plugs stand). So no coaxial run and shortest RGB analog video link as possible (also HDCP rules compliant, i.e. no end-user access to decrypted analog video  )


This module become "a part of the PJ itself". See French user manual picture to view it in place at the back of a 808s 


John
Thanks John, I understand your implementation. I was asking Gregg about his use of moome's external device.


Dave


----------



## JohnHWman

FYI, MadMrH is translating the BG-DVI french user manual to English since I'm quite out of time doing this nowadays ...


That's kind of him 


John


----------



## studio

Greg,


Did you ever post those pictures of how you install them?


Steve


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
FYI, MadMrH is translating the BG-DVI french user manual to English since I'm quite out of time doing this nowadays ...


That's kind of him 


John
Thank goodness, I thought I was going to have to put my wife's high school French class to use!


----------



## MadMrH




----------



## thorr

John,


Are the HDCP keys used in your box different than those used in Moome's external box?


Thanks,

Mike


P.S. I have a Barco Graphics 808 and would like to be added to your future order list.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *thorr*
John,


Are the HDCP keys used in your box different than those used in Moome's external box?


Thanks,

Mike


P.S. I have a Barco Graphics 808 and would like to be added to your future order list.
Hope I'm not talking out of line here, but to my knowledge yes they are.


Dave


----------



## geisemann

Hi Sorry,


I have been overloaded with customers and cant build projectors fast enough.


Ok here is a quick picture of what I do. I put 75ohm balanced cable right to the port 3.


I then cut the pins off the bottom of the card so you don't get the Mother board ring and the port 3 ring.


I then solder right to the Mommie 75ohm Resistors on his board. His transcoder and Internal boards are the same. I also remove Moomies SVGA connector to get rid of that too.


I then replace all the caps with high quality ones.


I will show a before and after shot later this week when I get this customers unit ready I will show 1080p demo.



I hope that helps out!!


No word on the boards I purchased from moomie?> and still no tracking numbers










GREG


----------



## RVonse

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I hope that helps out!!


GREG
Yes this is a great idea you have here, thanks for sharing. How do you get power to Moome? Does the power cable have to be fished throught the Barco cabinet or do you steal dc voltage off of the Barco somewhere? How do you physically get the DVI able to the Moone when it is internal to the Barco cabinet?


Your posts are very much appreciated.


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *thorr*
Are the HDCP keys used in your box different than those used in Moome's external box?
Hi Mike,


I assume yes since we're not working in the same HDCP licenced company  So the IC is not feeded with the same keys as they are relevant to companies names...


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I then cut the pins off the bottom of the card so you don't get the Mother board ring and the port 3 ring.

I then solder right to the Mommie 75ohm Resistors on his board. His transcoder and Internal boards are the same. I also remove Moomies SVGA connector to get rid of that too.
Interresting idea Greg,


This is always interresting to bypass as much as PCB layout as possible in high frequencies video signal paths (especially if these layout are not made with correct impedance matching).


I was thinking about doing the same thing with my original BG-DVI design. However, I was facing the following issues :


- No much people can afford open their PJs and modding their PCBs like this, you need minimum electronic knowledge 

- No much people want to drill their PJ mechanics to fit the DVI-D plug in the back panel.

- How about module's warranty after this job?


So I've prefered to make this BG-DVI with this "dongle" like form so that anybody can attach to their PJs within 5mn and without any other tool than a standard flat screwdriver 


However, for electronic guys, this is still possible to be done as well with my BG-DVI design. But my Warranty is then canceled 


John


----------



## thorr

Thanks John. I feel safer with the future of your product than Moome's. I am a little worried that the HDCP police will blacklist the keys on Moome's device due to it providing direct access to the analog signal where yours does not do this.


----------



## geisemann

Well They Are All Ananlog Outputs No Difference


I Would Like To Test One To See How It Works And The Quality Of The Picture.


Greg


----------



## geisemann

Well They Are All Analog Outputs No Difference



I Would Like To Test One To See How It Works And The Quality Of The Picture. I HAVE A FEW CUSTOMERS WHO WANT TO GET SOME FOR A QUICK INSTALL.


Greg


----------



## MadMrH

Greg you missed this batch!


BUT there is a chance that I would allow ONE of mine to be tested by you and then sent on to me......(might be easier to ssend you both of mine)


ONE THING - *YOU* just gotta answer my "I want tubes and hardware e mail " 


Hows that for a bribe ???


----------



## geisemann

Yes lots of 9 inch hardware but low on tubes. I have too many 1209 units that need tubes now and VDC raised prices... I have lots of burned tubes 



I just got some 808s units in with the 130MHZ BW I am going to MOD and color correct. Nice chasis



Theres a guy in england on ebay that sells tubes that are brand new in your area.


Oh a huge box of clear C-elements... ones I removed for color correcton...


----------



## cossie0

John I have sent you a PM. Hope I am not too late as I have been away. I was at the the top of the list so hopefully mine has not been allocated to someone else 


cheers

Darren


----------



## pclausen

John, any word on when the first batch will begin shipping?


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
John, any word on when the first batch will begin shipping?
Yes, and what batch am I in?


----------



## WTS

He's only making one batch for the Barco.


----------



## Deepsky4565

John, are you going to contact us for our billing and shipping info?


----------



## JohnHWman

Yes Deepsky4565, as said earlier, I will contact the people by MP when their module become available to shipment for billing and shipping address.


Yes, you're right WTS, there is only one batch of 20 BG-DVI module scheduled until today  .


Pclausen : as said earlier too, BG-DVI module are going to be made 5 by 5 approx. and making 5 will take one week time minimum (I'm alone to make these  ...).


I've ordered all the stuff (PCB, parts, cabinet, ...) and all should be there in the beginning of next week. So the batch should also start next week normally.


I hope you'll be patient  Sorry to be so slow, I'm just doing these (with art  ) to share my digital HT passion, not to make money 


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Yes, and what batch am I in? 
Yes man, see : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=3&pp=30 


You're in the fourth position 


John


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes man, see : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=3&pp=30 


You're in the fourth position 


John
Woohoo! I wasn't sure if that was the official order for shipping. Can't wait, can't wait!


Walter, the batch I was talking about was that John said he would make them 5 at a time. So, I was hoping I was in the first 5 and I am, I am, I am! 


Dave


----------



## WTS

Hey sounds great, can't wait to hear how it looks on the 1200x.


----------



## geisemann

Try sending Emails Again

[email protected] 


Thanks if it does not send me one at

[email protected] 


I did have a problem with someone trying to shut down my site a few times. But the servers are all non-linked so its impossible just makes email slow.

www.eisemann-theater.com 


I have a new full set of Barco and Electrohome mods. I have done testing and the results are simply amazing. It takes about 75 Changes however.


Barco Neck Board

Barco Port 3 Board

Barco RGB Switcher

Barco RGB Decoder Driver

Barco Horz Shift

Color Clarity Amazing after finished


Electrohome Super Quiet LVPS Mod

Electrohome VIM Mod ( Color The Best out of any Mod on the Market)



I am updating my website with Before and After Shots and what changes are done to each board.


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg,


That sounds interesting, do you think any of these changes would improve the 1200x which is basically the lasest improvements from Barco anyway. These modes you talk about on your website, do they involve mainly improving the caps in the signal path. Looking at the pics on your site of the RGB switcher board, it appears to be an older version than what comes in the cine series pjs.


----------



## JohnHWman

BG-DVI batch prod. update :


Just received the PCBs this morning 


rigman (cossie0), pclausen, Deepsky4565, Person99 and HenrikM BG-DVI modules build is now starting 


John


----------



## Dion^Swamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
and making 5 will take one week time minimum (I'm alone to make these  ...).
Have you thought about taking a larger number of orders and having Olimex do the assembly?


----------



## J/C

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
BG-DVI batch prod. update :


Just received the PCBs this morning 


rigman (cossie0), pclausen, Deepsky4565, Person99 and HenrikM BG-DVI modules build is now starting 


John



Hi John,

I have sent you a pm with my order.

Will i be ok for a module from your next batch?


Regards,

John.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
BG-DVI batch prod. update :


Just received the PCBs this morning 


rigman (cossie0), pclausen, Deepsky4565, Person99 and HenrikM BG-DVI modules build is now starting 


John
Thanks for the update John. Great news.


Dave


----------



## HenrikM

Thanks for the update John. Can't wait.


----------



## pclausen

Looking forward to it! Thanks for the heads up John.


HenrikM, I'm a Dane living in the US.


----------



## HenrikM

Pclausen; Danes are everywhere but in Denmark it semes.  I live in Sweden with an American wife.  (Sorry for the off subject. The world is getting smaller due to the Internet and we all love our CRT's and AVS Forum)


----------



## danielfparker

Hi John,


Can you please put me down for one for my 1208/2 when one becomes available.


Thanks

Daniel Parker


----------



## SteveB

John,


Are you planning on building another batch for the Barco 808? If yes please put me down for one for my BG808s, do you want PM for details?


Steve


----------



## alan halvorson

Using one of these means that I'll also need a scaler that will scale to whatever my pj (BG808s) needs through its HDMI or DVI output, right? I don't think my pj can handle 1080p. Is there any scaler that can do this at a reasonable price and can this device handle non-standard inputs?


----------



## geisemann

Wile the 1208 and 1209 Barco Projectors are excellent units they suffer from input problems.


Port 5 has to go through a extra set of switch transistors that lowers the BW and port 3 wile sharper and able to resolve higher BW seems to always Ring or ghost no matter how good the cable is. We were determined to get rid of this Ghost Effect and we engineered a direct DVI to Port 3 solution. This solution take advantage of balancing each color with the exact 75ohm resistor mounted on the port 3 card each RGB cable is measured to ensure its within tolerance. The effect is simply amazing. The photos below are untounched very high rez closeup photos. Pictures taken with a 1208 unit results even more extreme on a 1209. We have a demo board from silicon and we are going to start making custom port 3 cards with the DVI processor right on the card. Customers get an upgraded eprom to show the avantage of Direct DVI Inject.


Port 3 Green tube only 1080p Notice the large Ghost on the right

www.eisemann-theater.com


----------



## geisemann

This shows the internal wiring. Some were complaining that the wiring was messy before in the Lab Test Model. This is the final customer ship solution.


Notice the careful wiring layout.


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg,


Hey that sounds like good news for the old Barco owers. Would it be possible to have a look at the schematics for the 1208/1209 boards, as they sound quite abit different than the newer boards(1209s/cine series), just curious to have a look thats all.


Thanks


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

we are going to start making custom port 3 cards with the DVI processor right on the card
This sounds wonderful, but I'll bet not cheap. Will this card de-encrypt HDCP? Will this card work on a Barco BG808s?


----------



## geisemann

Hi Alan,


I still want to purchase 5 of your units for testing. Let me know when you get some.


OR I can prepay.

[email protected] 


But port 3 is the same on all units the S etc. The top cables move the RGB they are amped by 3 large high BW transistors that move the RGB right to the switcher card. I designed a system to remove the switcher card completly but then you cant select Video or port 5. Picture was a little sharper going right to the RGB driver/decoder board however. In the s they went with 75ohm cables you can do this on the 1209( secret to improve picture. But make sure to ballance)


ITs easy. I removed all the NEG RGB color balancing. Grounded mod the port 3 to get rid of all that neg sinc and forced green to improve stability and put 75 ohm cables into it removed the mother board connections and the port 3 port. You need to ground all the RGB neg pins.


The pictures are true before and after no messing with the camera or the pics.


IT takes some time but other memebers can do this.


You can use it with any silicon dvi transcoder chip. Mommie uses the same chip everone does. The joke is that he is not selling the transcoder box but the internal board is the same as his external. You just have to be good with a soldering iron and direct connect the marquee or sony one.


GREG


----------



## MadMrH

HI ALL,


I have started on the UK translation of the instruction manual......


I have got stuck on this bit


"â€¢ Attention ! du fait dâ€™une diffÃ©rence dâ€™entraxe entre les deux prises Â« COMM. PORT Â» et Â« PORT 3 Â» des Barco de la sÃ©rie 800/1-1209 et 808, le module est fabriquÃ© avec le bon Ã©cartement entre ces deux prises en fonction de la rÃ©fÃ©rence du projecteur Barco. Il est impossible de monter le module dÃ©diÃ© Ã* un 800/1 sur un 808 et inversement."


Am I right with this....


Attention! Due to a differance of postion of the "Comm Port" and "port3" input between the 800/1-120x series and the 808 series. This module is built with ??? 2 options???? for the Barco projector. It is not possible to install the BG-DVI built for a 800/1-120x on an 808 series and vice versa


I get a bit lost in the middle........


Thank you......


So far thats the only hickup!


----------



## MadMrH

Hi John......


RE 30v to 5v SWOP........


Could this be done on a "jumper" on future units?


To avoid possible error?


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg,


I'm not really following what you say you did for mods other than you don't use the RGB switcher board R762719(module 780550). The cable coax between the switcher board and the driver board is 50 ohm not 75.

I'm not sure deleting the switcher board is such a good idea because it also provides a dc restore signal to the first stage of the driver board which the input ICs require(they're not just an opamp).

Not only that you would loose your menus as well because the video for the menu is inserted in the switcher board. Now this is what I see looking at the cine series schematics which are pretty much the same as the 1209s schematics too.


Walter


----------



## MadMrH

Nearly done!


2am im off to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## MadMrH

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
The cable coax between the switcher board and the driver board is 50 ohm not 75
I dont wish to question you but........


it is 50 ohm?


I was told it was a strange 110 ohm.......


I have not checked this.......



For me I only use port 3.to remove the "video chain" via the switcher is a good idea for me. BUT leave the boards in place.........


I also have a 1208s/2 that for some reason only allows port3 input - I need to check why, this is an ex sim unit.....


----------



## geisemann

The mods are port 3 not the switcher board..


Removing the R -, B- G- signals and grounding them to the sync ground. This way you get a clean signal. You then remove and modify the section of the board with forced Blue and the MUX circurt chip.


This cleans up port 3 only not the switcher board. I did do a mod to remove the switcher board but yes of course I put in the CPU screens and feed that signal back in. Without it its impossible to align the picture.


Also the RGB driver decoder is 75ohms not 50ohms. I am a EE and doing circurt design is not complex. We learned balanced transmission theory and reflected signals. IF you terminate with the correct reflected wave at the end you will reduce transmission loss.


Lose wires don't have any transmission reflection I.E. Barco knows this mistake they then used Coax in the S model in-between the switcher and the RGB driver.


So upgrading your non-S is not a big thing to do if you are handy with a soldering iron.


You can do a quick switcher removal but you have to allign the picture first. The projector works fine if you extend the port 3 on a 1209 to the RGB the pinouts are the same.


Hope that helps. Also these are not Theorys these are in actually production projectors that our customers have been shipped and are happy with .





GREG


----------



## Ile

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
This cleans up port 3 only not the switcher board. I did do a mod to remove the switcher board but yes of course I put in the CPU screens and feed that signal back in. Without it its impossible to align the picture.
How about leaving switcher board in and use it only to took menus to external monitor?


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
"â€¢ Attention ! du fait dâ€™une diffÃ©rence dâ€™entraxe entre les deux prises Â« COMM. PORT Â» et Â« PORT 3 Â» des Barco de la sÃ©rie 800/1-1209 et 808, le module est fabriquÃ© avec le bon Ã©cartement entre ces deux prises en fonction de la rÃ©fÃ©rence du projecteur Barco. Il est impossible de monter le module dÃ©diÃ© Ã* un 800/1 sur un 808 et inversement."


Am I right with this....


Attention! Due to a differance of postion of the "Comm Port" and "port3" input between the 800/1-120x series and the 808 series. This module is built with ??? 2 options???? for the Barco projector. It is not possible to install the BG-DVI built for a 800/1-120x on an 808 series and vice versa
Great effort MAdMrH 


I could propose to translat it in this way :

Warning! Due to a differance of postion of the "Comm Port" and "port3" input between the 800/1-120x series and the 808 series. This module is built with a specified pitch spacing betwenn those two plugs. This pitch value is relevant to the projector reference number (38mm for 800 series and 40mm for 808 series). It is not possible to install the BG-DVI built for a 800/1-120x on an 808 series and vice versa.


Is this clearer ? Have you other questions ?


I must add that a dedicated module could still been updated from one serie to the other. It is just a matter of shifting the DB-9S plug on the PCB (unsoldering/resoldering) together with three solder drop pos. change around this plug. However, this can be done only by Electronic hobbyist people with the necessary tools... 

Quote:

RE 30v to 5v SWOP........

Could this be done on a "jumper" on future units? To avoid possible error?
Unfortunatly no, due to a lack of room on the tiny PCB layout. However, I must say that in normal operation the owner should not change the PS mode on this module since it is powered through the projector PSU itself and this gives the best solution so far for the owner ...


Later for the english document through e-mail 


John


----------



## MadMrH

Nearly there, just need to do some last changes and then check throught it.....


I will email it back so you can check it reads OK and I have got it right!


Will try and complete in the next 24hrs as I am away next week.......


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg and Mad,


No one told me it was 50 ohms, it just says that in the service manual and the schematics(cine series), so I assumed it was correct.


Okay, so all your mods are just to the port3 board, I read it as you were doing it to the switcher board.


And yes I too am a EE for 25 years, just not in video for 25 years.


----------



## MadMrH

Hi,


port3 only - not really but this is a port3 mod thread!


I have worked my way through a number of changes so far......


I think fairly soon there are some people out there who will for sure have some serious mods to keep our Barcos running longer......


(What I have done is more trial and error, but produced excellent results so far)


I still have a few ideas to try out.


----------



## MadMrH

UK Manual 80% complete, copy sent to John for checking.......


Im away for a week now.....


H.


----------



## jtnfoley

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
UK Manual 80% complete, copy sent to John for checking.......


Im away for a week now.....


H.
So who's going to correct the spelling, now? Colour, etc will be all wrong!


----------



## WTS

Ah, "colour" is the correct spelling.


----------



## JohnHWman

Thanks to MAdMrH for his translation work.


I'm finishing the translation and recheck the document today since I need to send the first 5 modules now (together with English User manual).


John


----------



## MadMrH

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jtnfoley*
So who's going to correct the spelling, now? Colour, etc will be all wrong!   
Oh! I see....... 


Thats a funny way to say thank you 


I have a "very special" manual just for you 






Remind me....how do you Yanks spell "potatoe"


----------



## JohnHWman

Just advise that rigman(Cossie0), pclausen, personn99 and HenrikM BG-DVI modules are gone through registered letter. I've added the brand new english user manual 


Looking forward for some reviews on this module ?

*No news from Deepsky4565, are you still interrested to have your BG-DVI module ?*


I'm now building the 5 next modules  .


Cheers


John


----------



## dominical2

Please put me down for one !


----------



## Deepsky4565

John, Paypal sent. Thanks


----------



## BenY

Is it possible to design a HDMI repeater so cables could be extended even longer then what`s possible now??


Yuval.


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BenY*
Is it possible to design a HDMI repeater so cables could be extended even longer then what`s possible now??
Yes Yuval,


However, these tools already exists in the market and they are available :

i.e. http://www.audiooutfitter.com/store/HDMI-RPT.html 


John


----------



## JohnHWman

For Deepsky4565 :


Your BG-DVI module is gone now.


John


----------



## Deepsky4565

I assume that means it's on its way to me? Thanks.


----------



## JohnHWman

Yes Daniel !


----------



## cossie0

Just to let everyone know, mine arrived yesterday and it is a great little unit. One of the mounting screws had come adrift but although a bit fiddly I managed to get it back in place. Unfortunately I have not got a HDCP source yet so I cannot really test it although I will be hooking my computer up to it to make sure it is working.


Thanks very much John for taking your time to design and make this. It will make sure my CRT lasts a few more years yet


----------



## JohnHWman

Thank Darren,


About 4-40 mounting screw adrift during shipment, I will take care of this with special removable part added before shipping.


John


----------



## cossie0

Tested this with DVI ouput on the PC graphics card using theatertek and it worked fine. Picture quality was good at 1280 x 720p and that was without any tweaks at all. I was just testing to make sure it worked. Now waiting for the HD sources to arrive in the UK to test the HDCP but overall so far I am very pleased.


----------



## geisemann

I have a full SET of NEW CRT MODS Avalible


See Here

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=file&SubMenu= 



Greg


----------



## dominical2

Greg , Am I reading this correctly that the VPA18's cannot be installed in the 1209s model but only the 1209 and 1209/2 ?


----------



## jupiterinmind

Hi john, can I order one of your dvi/hdcp module for my Barco 808?


----------



## pclausen

Picked up a HD DVD player from BB today. Can't wait 'till I can feed the hdmi out into my 1208/2!


Just messin' 'round on my Dell 2405...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/hda1bench.jpg 


This sucker got 1 Gig of RAM!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/hda1ram.jpg 


Once I get some HD-DVD titles, I'll snap some images (got a Rebel & tripod) comparing DVD vs. HD-DVD both from this player and the DVD titles coming from my HTPC on my 119" 16:9 1.3 Dalite.


----------



## plain fan

Are they really waiting until Tuesday to sell the 3 HD-DVD titles available?


----------



## JohnHWman

Hi pclausen,


I'm puzzled about the inner view of your brand new HD-DVD player : what is this internal fan for 


BG-DVI production small update :


Laurent porcheron / SuperFrenchy31, Don Goulding and Tedd's BG-DVI modules just gone through registered letters today  .


Speedplay's module delayed to end of list from his own request.


No news from CRT-Master from Germany with his two modules ready to be ship 


I'm starting Jani Lehmuskoski, alan halvorson, jalittam, greg1292 and R.Bauer's modules building now  .


John


----------



## Tedd

:d


----------



## kal

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
I'm puzzled about the inner view of your brand new HD-DVD player : what is this internal fan for 
Because the player is basically a computer (has a CPU/RAM/etc) and generates enough heat to require a fan.


More and more electronics are using higher speed CPU's that need fans.


Kal


----------



## pclausen

Kal is right. This HD-DVD player is basically a pretty powerfull P4 w/ 1 Gig of ram.


I got my BG-DVI module today, so I hope to test this new player tonight with my 2 HD-DVD titles. Can't wait!


----------



## pclausen

Kal is right. This HD-DVD player is basically a pretty powerfull P4 w/ 1 Gig of ram.


I got my BG-DVI module today, so I hope to test this new player tonight with my 2 HD-DVD titles. Can't wait!


----------



## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
Kal is right. This HD-DVD player is basically a pretty powerfull P4 w/ 1 Gig of ram.


I got my BG-DVI module today, so I hope to test this new player tonight with my 2 HD-DVD titles. Can't wait!
Looking forward to your report on both the HD-DVD player and how well the BG-DVI copes with HDCP.


----------



## SteveB

John,


Please let us know when you can do additional units 


Desperate from UK !


Steve


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
Kal is right. This HD-DVD player is basically a pretty powerfull P4 w/ 1 Gig of ram.
I'm working in a HD STB manufacturer company and we have SD/HD products that handle HD playback with passive heat-sink only (Broadcom or ST main IC). These products manage the EPG/navigation menus as well as HD DVD.


I'm expecting an HD DVD/BR player without any noisy fans ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
... how well the BG-DVI copes with HDCP.
Should work fine 


John


----------



## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Should work fine 


John
Hi John,


I don't doubt that at all.

If I had I wouldn't have purchased mine last year.


It's just that it's always good to hear how well these things cope with upcoming products.


I sent you an e-mail this morning asking if it would be possible to have a copy of the English manual as I got mine prior to it being available.Any chance?


Regards


Kevin


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
I don't doubt that at all.

If I had I wouldn't have purchased mine last year.

It's just that it's always good to hear how well these things cope with upcoming products.
No worry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
I sent you an e-mail this morning asking if it would be possible to have a copy of the English manual as I got mine prior to it being available. Any chance?
Yes, sure kevin, I will send you the PDF document of this manual.


John


----------



## Baggy

Manual received.

Many Thanks


----------



## JohnHWman

I've putted these BG-DVI manuals on-line :


The BG-DVI english user Manual is available in * here *


The BG-DVI french user Manual is available in * here *


John


----------



## pclausen

I rigged a very temporary setup until my 25' HDMI to DVI cable shows up. Anyway, I'm happy to report that the HD-DVD player works just fine as expected.


Here's the unit plugged into the back of my 1208/2:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/barcohdmi1.jpg 


The back of the HD-DVD player. Here you also see my digital coaxial running towards the equipment room for the audio.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/barcohdmi2.jpg 


The front:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/barcohdmi3.jpg 


And finally a very blurry shot of the player and projector in action:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/barcohdmi4.jpg 


I need to tweak the setting on the projector for the newly created memory block, but the deepness of the colors on both titles is amazing as is the level of detail even before me going in and doing any tweaking. I had a couple of friends over last night and we watched Phantom in its entirety. They were very impressed. Once I get things tweaked and the player mounted back in the rack, I'll do some compares of the same movie on my HTPC and the HD-DVD player.


The BG-DVI unit functions flawlessly!


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
I've putted these BG-DVI manuals on-line :


The BG-DVI english user Manual is available in * here *


The BG-DVI french user Manual is available in * here *


John
John, received my module and it is working fine.


Also, part of my job is reviewing technical product documentation for the products I "own". I noticed some grammatical errors and such in the English version of the document. If you want to send me an editable copy, I can quickly fix those.


Dave


----------



## JohnHWman


Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
John, received my module and it is working fine.
Good !

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Also, part of my job is reviewing technical product documentation for the products I "own". I noticed some grammatical errors and such in the English version of the document. If you want to send me an editable copy, I can quickly fix those
Thanks Dave


I knew I'm often wrong with english grammar  ...


That's kind of you to do so. I've sent you the word document through e-mail to let you correct these remaining mistakes 


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *pclausen*
I need to tweak the setting on the projector for the newly created memory block, but the deepness of the colors on both titles is amazing as is the level of detail even before me going in and doing any tweaking. I had a couple of friends over last night and we watched Phantom in its entirety. They were very impressed. Once I get things tweaked and the player mounted back in the rack, I'll do some compares of the same movie on my HTPC and the HD-DVD player.


The BG-DVI unit functions flawlessly!
Thanks for this small report pclausen,


Appart from the blurry screenshot  your pictures tells more than words  . This is the first HD-DVD player in the world that been linked to my BG-DVI module  I'm proud of this 


John


----------



## MadMrH

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
John, received my module and it is working fine.


Also, part of my job is reviewing technical product documentation for the products I "own". I noticed some grammatical errors and such in the English version of the document. If you want to send me an editable copy, I can quickly fix those.


Dave


Ooops!


I did parts of that.......


----------



## Baggy

Are any of you running 1080p from a HTPC into your Barco via the BG-DVI?


----------



## R.Bauer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
Are any of you running 1080p from a HTPC into your Barco via the BG-DVI?
As soon as I receive my module, I will let you know what the result is!


----------



## JohnHWman

Laric and BangoO french members use this converter at 1080P with their HTPC. You can ask them questions.


John


----------



## laric

Yes and it works flawlessly since more than a year now 


--Patrice


----------



## Baggy

Hi John and Laric,

I've had this conversation with John before.

When I select [email protected] on my PC I get a Pixelclock in the region of 172MHz which is exceeding the expected 148.5 MHz and the bandwith limit.

This combined with the 8m DVI cable I'm using is giving me sparkles.

The sparkles go when I reduce the frequency to 50Hz.

John previously suggested I alter the front & back porches to reduce the pixel clock.

I was wondering what the timings others are using for 1080P.


----------



## laric

Hi,


At 60Hz, the bandwith can easily be exceeded, timming are tight you will have to play with PowerStrip to fine adjust and acheive no sparkles


But we (BangoO, RNO and I) are running at 48Hz (47.952) with a pixelclock around 119Mhz, and the picture on our 1292 is more than beautifull 


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1920x1080 47.952Hz

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


PowerStrip timing parameters:

1920x1080=1920,72,47,128,1080,24,9,40,119812,768


Generic timing details for 1920x1080:

HFP=72 HSW=47 HBP=128 kHz=55 VFP=24 VSW=9 VBP=40 Hz=48


VESA detailed timing details:

PClk=119,81 H.Active=1920 H.Blank=247 H.Offset=56 HSW=47 V.Active=1080 V.Blank=73 V.Offset=24 VSW=9


--Patrice


----------



## pbelo

John ,


When you plan new batch please reserve one for me for my Cine9 -40mm spacing.


regards to all from Portugal


Pedro


----------



## bbfarmht

John,

I've been reading these posts about your dvi-hdcp adapter. this sounds like a very nifty deal. I would like to be on the next list for the barco dvi adapter!!


----------



## TinToy

John ,


could you please reserve one also for me?


Thanks,


TinToy


----------



## Per Johnny

I would also like to reserve one. Tried to send PM, but it was full.


----------



## HenrikM

Hi john


Installed the module yesterday, and I can only say. WOW!   


This it the best update I have done to my Cinema in a long time.


Projector: Barco BG 1209/2 (now with HDMI/DVI)    

Source: HTPC with ASUS GeForce 6600GT HTD (DVI out)


John, Thank you so much for this fantastic product.


----------



## Rittberg




> Projector: Barco BG 1209/2 (now with HDMI/DVI)
> 
> Source: HTPC with ASUS GeForce 6600GT HTD (DVI out)
> 
> 
> 
> At what resolution and refresh rate you running the HTPC & the Barco ?
> 
> Thanks,


----------



## dyates69

Yeah add me to the reserve list too please. For my BG808.


Thanks


----------



## dominical2

John your AVS mailbox is full .......


----------



## chlngr1970

I sent you a PM as well. I would like to be on that list if I can. BG 800 is what I have. Probably going to get another one.


j


----------



## wireburn

Sorry, j, this module won't work for your 800. You need 801(s?) or higher.


BTW, is that a typo in your sig?


-Mike


----------



## greekCRTfan

John in your next orders pls one for my cine9 also.

Thanks


----------



## HenrikM

Ritterberg;


right now Im running 1080x864 at 50 hz.


its 1.5 x PAL for regular DVD's. But Im planning to try [email protected] now that I have the DVI interface. Did try 1440x1152 before I got the BG-DVI but felt it was to soft compared to 1080x864.


When I get my hands on a HD-DVD drive I will test 1920x1080 too.


----------



## chlngr1970

Quote:

Originally Posted by *wireburn*
Sorry, j, this module won't work for your 800. You need 801(s?) or higher.


BTW, is that a typo in your sig?


-Mike
Bummer. Guess I need to upgrade, huh? 


My Sig is not a typo. It's a quote from Moulin Rouge.


j


----------



## alan halvorson

John: You might want to clear your PM space. I tried to PM you but you've " _exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space"_! I just wanted to find out about when it might be ready. No hurry since I don't have an HDCP source yet, just curious.


Thanks!


----------



## JohnHWman

Yes alan,


Sorry about it, I'm receiving so many PM about this toy that my mailbox is always full 


I'll cleanup soon 


John


----------



## wireburn

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chlngr1970*
My Sig is not a typo. It's a quote from Moulin Rouge.


j



-Mike


----------



## mikeharris

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes alan,


Sorry about it, I'm receiving so many PM about this toy that my mailbox is always full 


I'll cleanup soon 


John
Hi John,


I have PM'd you. Please add me to the list for a Barco 801S.


Thanks

mikeharris


----------



## J/C

John,

I have sent you another PM for 1 more module

if that is ok.

Are you making good progress with the second

half of the batch you are working on?

Thanks,

John.


----------



## JohnHWman

Hi everybody,


I'm still late in building the current 20 module batch (still building #11-#15 module now)  .


I'm sorry, I can't pass enough time i would like to do these since I have higher priorities nowadays. But it will be done for sure.


Please don't continue to PM me about this module since the only next batch of module (17) is already fullfilled  .


It's VERY hard to do them by hands, hope you'll understand 
http://johnhwman.chez.tiscali.fr/Pro...batch_prod.jpg 

You can see here Jani Lehmuskoski, alan halvorson, jalittam, greg1292 and R.Bauer's modules under SMD components mounting process ...


Later


John


----------



## picree

OK John-I'll honor your request to not PM you but are you considering a third batch??? If so please count me in for one....please oh please oh please!!!!!!!


----------



## RobboNL

Will you consider having a large batch made (automated) ?


There seems to be a great need for a solution like yours. I for instance would surely want one for my 1209s


Thanks

Rob


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *RobboNL*
Will you consider having a large batch made (automated)
I don't know.

In fact the main problem is to get the main IC  . If I could get hundreds of these, the module can be made using automated industrial tools.


But maybe the best reason is that I don't want to make these to earn my living, just to share some of these usefull toys 


John


----------



## picree

I can appreciate the fact you're disinclined to make another run. If there is ANY other alternative ways for those of us who missed the boat on the first two batches I, for one, would be greatly appreciative.  Without this or the moome external box I know of NO other way to get HD-DVD into the Barco.


I've just now realized that this is a bit of a difficult spot and came here hoping to get in the second batch. I for one have very little hope there will be any other options (anytime) for the Barcos.


Have you considered selling the rights to someone else to make it? Do you think moome might be willing to take this on? Do you have any idea how many could ultimately be sold? I'd be willing to troll the other forums and look for someone who could make a run of these if that is even an option.


Is there any way possible for us to buy a kit or parts or schematics? I don't know anything about the history of the board (I see it had a copyright mark on it) nor do I know very much about the licensing issues related to the main IC.


I'm hopeful you can provide some sort of guidance on how to proceed. The difficult part of designing and laying out the board has been done. It exists. It's out there. I can see it...I just can't touch it. I may be forced to go DIGITAL!   JOHN: HELP THE TEAM!! DON'T let us die out here! 


Bottom line: in your opinion, what would be the best way for those that still need your box to go about getting one? (The key word is NEED not WANT...sadly, I don't think we have any other options.  )


----------



## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *picree*
I can appreciate the fact you're disinclined to make another run. If there is ANY other alternative ways for those of us who missed the boat on the first two batches I, for one, would be greatly appreciative.  Without this or the moome external box I know of NO other way to get HD-DVD into the Barco.
I believe geisemann has a solution for Barco owners. You may want to check his previous posts.


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

Without this or the moome external box I know of NO other way to get HD-DVD into the Barco.
picree, you've got to pay more attention. There have been and are alternatives to this box and the Moome. The geisemann solution is mentioned; it's not cheap but it may be the very best way to go on a Barco. Had you been perusing the For Sale section here, you might have noticed someone selling a Dtrovision DC-DA1 DVI-to-VGA converter and previous to that, several Ophit DVI-to-VGA converters. Plus, recently, there was a Moonjung box (this includes a scaler) DVI-to-VGA converter for sale. All these devices enable someone to connect an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player to any crt and all went for reasonable prices. Even if these aren't the solution you want, they'll do until one comes along.


So, keep watching the For Sale section, plus Ebay and Videogon. These things aren't exactly plentiful, but they turn up now and again.


----------



## picree

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
picree, you've got to pay more attention. There have been and are alternatives to this box and the Moome. The geisemann solution is mentioned; it's not cheap but it may be the very best way to go on a Barco. Had you been perusing the For Sale section here, ...... Even if these aren't the solution you want, they'll do until one comes along.


So, keep watching the For Sale section, plus Ebay and Videogon. These things aren't exactly plentiful, but they turn up now and again.
Alan-your wealth of knowledge on transcoders is welcomed but please don't tell me I have to pay more attention......(I wonder sometimes why I post on AVS  ).


I excluded geisemann because of cost...perhaps he'll offer a solution w/o the direct connect/internal sophistication...certainly I would consider...but $600+ is not an option as that is more than the DVD player. 


Are those other options (Dtrovision and Ophit) compatable w/ the HDCP crap? I thought the only options were geisemann(moome), moome, moonjung, and this. And of course moome stopped because external cables are a no-no.


I suppose the time I choose to devote here may be less than others. So I don't often spend time perusing the For Sale section but I'll keep an eye out. This solution though is so neat and clean it seems a shame to not look for alternatives to not only sell more but also alleviate John of addition work that obviously goes beyond what he signed up for.


Why was I so bent on this? Because it had been shown to work, it was legal, and it didn't cost more than the DVD player.


Never hurts to ask...........


----------



## jtnfoley

9722393097


----------



## geisemann

Well,


People are not hiding anything. The only chip on the market is Silicon Image and most are using the cheaper older version. They have a new version that really does amazing things. Now if a person is filling off the numbers they didnâ€™t pay the 15k license fee that they quoted me as I am trying to do it legal. Eventually they will have a website of all the official HDCP people who paid the license fee and turn off the non offical. I fell its at your risk to buy a product unless he is officially licensed and they wont give you your money back when they start to crack down.


I have had some luck with MadMr H being really helpful with an officially licensed Panasonic module for there HDTV and I will strip that apart and directly connect into port 3 and remove the other parts on port 3 to get a better picture. Thatâ€™s my hope as the moomie to port 3 solution is now not viable because the question of the license agreement and on top of that moomies bad customer service he will not answer a single email!


I have two employees now that are going to do mods as the orders have realy picked up and the DVI-Direct connect is really getting a lot of orders too. I hope soon to lower prices as we get more volume with better supplers.

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...on=displaypage &Itemid=69&op=file&SubMenu=



Greg


----------



## picree

Greg-I would be careful when implying that moome didn't pay the fees and will be revoked. As I've read elsewhere, people commonly do that to minimize the chance that others will copy thier design. According to his own website he did agree (with SI maybe?) to stop making the external version. Revoking his keys would kill all his internal units he has made as well...which seem to be perfectly legal. You are implying is that eventually EVERY moome card (internal, external, etc) won't work. That would be a big mess.


----------



## WTS

Greg,


What makes you so sure Moome is doing something illegal, just because he lives in Taiwan. He happens to be dealing with the local Silicon Image rep and thats the same way everyone else gets their product. What new chip are you refering to that has replaced the 907 and is far better.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
Greg,


What makes you so sure Moome is doing something illegal, just because he lives in Taiwan. He happens to be dealing with the local Silicon Image rep and thats the same way everyone else gets their product. What new chip are you refering to that has replaced the 907 and is far better.
I could be wrong here, but I believe he is talking about the HDCP licensing fee. I believe you can get the chip and a key from SI, but each company implementing any product(s) using HDCP is required to pay a $15,000 licensing fee for the rights to use the technology. Thus, you can get an SI chip that works, but not pay your fee. If you don't pay the fee, your keys can be put on the black list.


Dave


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *picree*
Are those other options (Dtrovision and Ophit) compatable w/ the HDCP crap? I thought the only options were geisemann(moome), moome, moonjung, and this. And of course moome stopped because external cables are a no-no.
The dtrovision no longer works with HDCP encrypted signals for the same reason moome will no longer make an external. So, you got to have an early one (which I do).


Dave


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

The dtrovision no longer works with HDCP encrypted signals
Really? As of last week, the listing for the Dtrovision on Digital Connection still claimed it is HDCP capable. If what you say is true then it appears that DC is slow to change descriptions and that the DC-DA1 is now a mighty expensive DVI-to-VGA converter. I won't be getting rid of mine anytime soon.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
Really? As of last week, the listing for the Dtrovision on Digital Connection still claimed it is HDCP capable. If what you say is true then it appears that DC is slow to change descriptions and that the DC-DA1 is now a mighty expensive DVI-to-VGA converter. I won't be getting rid of mine anytime soon.
Did you look at dtrovision's site? Also, you can call or email digital connection and they will tell you this. It has been this way for quite some time.


Here is the manufacturers DC-DA1 product page:
http://www.dtrovision.com/dc_da1.htm 

Quote:

The PureLink DC-DA1 digital to analog converter converts un-protected, un-encrypted HD digital content at 1080i or 720p to analog VGA so it can be seen on HDTV's that have no digital input.
Dave


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

Did you look at dtrovision's site?
No, I didn't, just Digital Connection's but after looking at Dtrovision's site, I see you are quite correct DC-DA1 Converter . Well, anyway - I got mine back waaay back when, plus my manual states that is is HDCP compliant so I assume (and hope) that it is. I don't have an HDCP source for testing yet and until I do, I'm keeping it.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
No, I didn't, just Digital Connection's but after looking at Dtrovision's site, I see you are quite correct DC-DA1 Converter . Well, anyway - I got mine back waaay back when, plus my manual states that is is HDCP compliant so I assume (and hope) that it is. I don't have an HDCP source for testing yet and until I do, I'm keeping it.
If an early black one before the "pure link" logo, it works, I've tested mine with a number of sources.


Dave


----------



## picree

Were early transcoder models given a grace period to help the HDTV early adopters? Is that why they still work?


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

Were early transcoder models given a grace period to help the HDTV early adopters?
No - these devices aren't supposed to exist, according to the HDCP gods. They've cracked down. They work now but as they were made by builders who hadn't purchased a license and weren't approved under the rules, it is unknown whether they will work in the future. So if you invest in one, be aware of this possibility.


----------



## MadMrH

It will be about money........


Panasonic OR other major players will make sure that their products are legal.....


They will also in time put pressure on Silicon to STOP "non legal" units being made.....


Its the numbers game.......Money (sales) talks..........the big firms will want the market share, not shared......


That in this case I think is correct, they have paid for the licencse so should get the product those that dont should not


I make it very clear that I have no idea who has paid and a list of true distributors will im sure be available if not now then one day.........


----------



## picree

Seems like a similar situation exists for all the people who bought the very first "HD Ready" TV's that were not HDCP compliant. I mean, what are they going to do? How the heck would they hook an HDCP HD-DVD to their TV? I've read on other forums that the first "generation" HD-DVD players might not enforce the HDCP standard. At this point, who knows?


I hope that someday somebody will be able to talk to these SI 907 chips to find out just exactly what's going on. At least then we would know what to do. What a stupid way to launch a new platform! We can't even be sure that what works today will work tomorrow...even if we pour over the standards and try to do what we think is the right thing! Truthfully...as MadMrH concluded you can't be sure about ANY of the options on the table now.


Really though-all these various cards and dongles for Barcos, Sonys, + Marquees-I can't believe that one day they won't work (people would go nuts).


----------



## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *picree*
Seems like a similar situation exists for all the people who bought the very first "HD Ready" TV's that were not HDCP compliant. I mean, what are they going to do? How the heck would they hook an HDCP HD-DVD to their TV?
This is similar to the millions of people who have analog TV sets, which will be rendered useless or to limited use when the analog frequencies are turned off in a few years. People like my folks, who live in remote rural areas, and don't have satellite, rely on OTA antennas for their signal source. If they don't buy a converter box, their existing TV will be restricted to viewing VHS tapes and DVDs.


And how about everyone with a computer monitor who watches TV and video on their computer? Currently, I think the requirement is to have an HDCP-compliant monitor to view HD content in Windows Vista, right?


I think we just have to take our chances, now, and see what happens later. You are right about leaving people in the lurch. However, if the government can mandate (thankfully) the death of analog TV, it wouldn't surprise me if the private sector decides not to support select technology. Don't get me wrong -- I don't like this anymore than you do, and hope the ICT flag never gets turned on.


----------



## Chris Bigos

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
.... my manual states that is is HDCP compliant so I assume (and hope) that it is.
This is a lose-lose situation: If it *is* HDCP compliant then it *won't* output the HD in analogue; If it *is not* HDCP compliant the source *won't* pass the signal. Either way, "they" win...


----------



## pbelo

Anyone tried to connect an European STB HD ( HUMAX + PACE + QUALI TV)

with a CRT with output from STB at 1080i -50Hz ???



As per attached test doc . it doesnot sync with a Cine9 either in VGA analog mode

or in Digital mode thru John's box .


Strange , becuase no problem to sync for 1080i -60Hz US HD content via HTPC

ANALOG VGA coonection.


So, cannot watch 1080i Euro HD content like SKY HD + PREMIERE + EURO1080+

TF1 , etc ....


Any ideas for the issue ???


Pedro

 

HD BOX.doc 44.5k . file


----------



## dominical2

Just read this on the video processor forum . Is the CRT forum next ? 


AVS Moderator


AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER


guys,


Please refrain from discussing HDCP busters here.


__________________

Cheers,

Ofer LaOr


----------



## Baggy

Hi John,

I've just purchased a HD-DVD player.

I've got it connected HDMI-DVI 1080i into my HD-Leeza.

The HD-Leeza outputs 1080p DVI-DVI to your little box attached to my Barco 1209s.

It all works a treat.

Thank you.


----------



## pbelo

Baggy ,


Try to connect player at 1080i direct to John's box without scaler ,

do you get any image on Barco??


Is it 1080i at 50 or 60 Hz ???i


Pedro


----------



## JohnHWman

Good test Baggy !


So you need the HD-Leeza scaler to perform 1080P instead of 1080i, right ?


I assume that the HD-Leeza DVI output is HDCP enabled... What refresh rate did you use ?


John


----------



## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Good test Baggy !


So you need the HD-Leeza scaler to perform 1080P instead of 1080i, right ?


I assume that the HD-Leeza DVI output is HDCP enabled... What refresh rate did you use ?


John
John,

I already had the HD-Leeza set up to output 1080p to my Barco via the BG-DVI.

This was the first time I've had a HDCP source in the loop.

The output from the HD-Leeza is [email protected]


pbelo,

I tried 1080i direct from the HD-DVD player to my Barco via John's BG-DVI.

Yes I get an image.

I presume it's 60Hz


----------



## laric

I also told pbelo by email that I had succesfull connection from Qualitv (1080i) to my Sony 1292 using same (at least very simlar) John'sboard.


and obviously many DVD Players... (1080i, 720p and even 1080p ) all at 50 or 60Hz.


--Patrice


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *laric*
I also told pbelo by email that I had succesfull connection from Qualitv (1080i) to my Sony 1292 using same (at least very simlar) John'sboard.
Yes, my Sony IFB-DVI input card uses exactly the same device as BG-DVI.


Baggy, I'm not surprized to hear that HD-DVD player is outputing 60Hz frame rate as this device is intended to be used in US market.


Pbelo display issue is only @ 50Hz European HDTV standards due to huge front and back porchs that Barco (and sometime Sony) PJs don't like much 


John


----------



## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes, my Sony IFB-DVI input card uses exactly the same device as BG-DVI.


Baggy, I'm not surprized to hear that HD-DVD player is outputing 60Hz frame rate as this device is intended to be used in US market.


Pbelo display issue is only @ 50Hz European HDTV standards due to huge front and back porchs that Barco (and sometime Sony) PJs don't like much 


John
OK,

For pbelo.

I quickly tried the following.

1080i50Hz ts file played back on HD-Mediabox set to 1080i50Hz into BG-DVI and Barco 1209.

No problem.

My Barco wasn't set up for this resolution so the geometry's all out but it syncs and shows a picture.

That's as near as I can get to trying a 50Hz HDTV input until my SkyHD arrives next week.


----------



## pbelo

Baggy ,


Thank you so much for your test , seems still very strange I get no image at

all from European Satellite Setup Boxes at 1080i-50 .


My target is also to have the SKY HD box , so when you have it kindly let me know result feeding Barco directly with SKY Hd box output at 1080i -50.


I have no problems with 1080i .ts files as well , mines are 60 hz ( Barco detects them as 33,75 scan rate and 30 Hz due i ) .


But problem is if HD broadcasts in Europe from SKY + CANAL PLUS ,etc ... are being transmitted with Vertical + Horizontal Front , Back Porches and Sync Widths that CRT's cannot understand .



Again , many thanks for help


Pedro


----------



## SteveB

Pedro,


I haven't got John's mod yet, I'm waiting for the next batch, hopefully!


I've got Pter's Component to RGBHV transcoder for the interim for displaying Sky HD via the Component out, maybe an option for 1st generation Sky HD boxes?


steve


----------



## pbelo

Steve ,


It's a solution except for HDCP channels broadcasted by Sky .

Component out is blocked for HDCP content, only by HDMI.


When do you get Sky HD box ???



Pedro


----------



## SteveB

Pedro,


My Sky HD box arrives on Tuesday so I will be using the transcoder only until I get my hands on Johns box of tricks. I was under the impression that at release Sky were not using HDCP encryption and this will be enabled in the future and then make HD across component a no-go. I was hoping that it would buy me a few months at least, if not and I cant get one of Johns mods then it looks like I'll have to go down the Greg Eisemann route although this is 3 x price 


Steve


----------



## Baggy

I get my SkyHD box on the 26th so I'll let you know more when it arrives.

I'm also of the understanding that it'll output component at first and encryption will be added later.


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SteveB*
I was hoping that it would buy me a few months at least, if not and I cant get one of Johns mods then it looks like I'll have to go down the Greg Eisemann route although this is 3 x price 
SteveB,


I confirm you that I've just got the ICs for building the next batch of 17x BG-DVI. So, you must have it since you've been recorded in this second list for weeks now  ...


I'm just finishing building and testing #12/14/15/16/17 modules now. Planning to be shipped in this week. Sorry to be late in delivering these  ...


No news from CRTMaster for 4 weeks now about his two BG1209s modules. They are ready to be shipped but CRTMaster is not responding to my MP/e-mails  . I'm planning to re-assign his modules to somebody else ...


John


----------



## pbelo

Steve and Baggy ,


I look forward to get your reply regarding if your Barco's can get an image at all from the HD box outputting 1080i-50 and a normal 16:9 with 720p-50.

I have this problem and may need to place a scaler in middle to adjust

those stupid parameters.


Seems Sat. DVB HD boxes output strange timing parameters like Porch and Sync widths that CRT's unable to display correctly and here we dont have PowerStrip to correct like on HTPC's .


What I got is Sky own channels will output HD thru Compo but non-Sky like

NatGeo and Discovery will only use HDMI HDCP .

While in Germany from 3 channels only FILM is HDCP , Discovery+Sport are not.



Pedro


----------



## SteveB

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
SteveB,


I confirm you that I've just got the ICs for building the next batch of 17x BG-DVI. So, you must have it since you've been recorded in this second list for weeks now  ...


I'm just finishing building and testing #12/14/15/16/17 modules now. Planning to be shipped in this week. Sorry to be late in delivering these  ...


No news from CRTMaster for 4 weeks now about his two BG1209s modules. They are ready to be shipped but CRTMaster is not responding to my MP/e-mails  . I'm planning to re-assign his modules to somebody else ...


John


Whoooohoooo,


Sorry John I didn't mean you had forgotten just that I know it's a "labour of love" and you build them by hand in small batches.


You've just made my day!!!!!


Steve


----------



## MadMrH

Oh boy.......................cant wait till number 20. on the list is ready...............


Im so excited........


----------



## picree

GREAT JOHN! This is good news! Please add me to the list if you can!


----------



## apple156

Hi John,

If you have one more that you can sell please put me on the list as wel

It would be for an BD808s


Thanks

Peter


----------



## JohnHWman

FYI :


Jani L., Alan H., Jalittam, rbauer and MadMrH modules are gone through registered letters.


Greg1292's module still undelivered, no answers from my MPs until now.


MadMrH's modules delivered in advance because of CRTmaster's modules not claimed after more than one month of wait.


Inventor, Speedplay, picree, vipath modules planned to be build and send this week.


John


----------



## picree

Thanks John for the update


----------



## MadMrH

Thank you........


Im so excited......


H.


----------



## TexKeen

Hi John

I have been trying to contact you for a couple of months by email to try and get

in the waiting list to order the BG-DVI for my Barco 1209 data. What is the latest

situation with the availability for that projector.


Thanks for your time


Tex


----------



## Belcherwm

If another batch becomes available I'd like to get on the list for my BD808. Can't wait to hear about people's experience with the Barco version.


----------



## RobboNL

Quote:

Originally Posted by *TexKeen*
Hi John

I have been trying to contact you for a couple of months by email to try and get

in the waiting list to order the BG-DVI for my Barco 1209 data. What is the latest

situation with the availability for that projector.


Thanks for your time


Tex


Same here for the same projector


----------



## MadMrH

THANK YOU John,


Mine arrived today........


I will test it at the weekend from my PC.


Andy H.


----------



## R.Bauer

Mine arrived today, and the improvement is simply jaw-dropping!

Previous source was a radeon 9800Pro with the RF-filter removed. This thing simply blows the Radeon away.


Other Barco owners: Remember to turn Peaking in the Picture Tuning menu OFF! This is important. The Barco turns it automatically on, but it introduces unwanted Edge Enhancement in the picture.


I am so happy with my new picture quality. As I now have a better source, I can tweak my CRT some more, astig, focus etc.

John, you did an outstanding job.

Thank you!


Reinier


----------



## apple156

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.Bauer*
Mine arrived today, and the improvement is simply jaw-dropping!

Previous source was a radeon 9800Pro with the RF-filter removed. This thing simply blows the Radeon away.


Other Barco owners: Remember to turn Peaking in the Picture Tuning menu OFF! This is important. The Barco turns it automatically on, but it introduces unwanted Edge Enhancement in the picture.


I am so happy with my new picture quality. As I now have a better source, I can tweak my CRT some more, astig, focus etc.

John, you did an outstanding job.

Thank you!


Reinier
Now i really want one,if possible John.


Peter


----------



## alan halvorson

I haven't got mine yet, but even if I had I can't do anything with it - I have no source with a digital output yet. I've been waiting for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, but I doubt now that I will be investing in either/both of them until fall or later. So all I can test is if it fits ok.


----------



## R.Bauer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
I haven't got mine yet, but even if I had I can't do anything with it - I have no source with a digital output yet. I've been waiting for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, but I doubt now that I will be investing in either/both of them until fall or later. So all I can test is if it fits ok.
Don't you have a pc? Almost any pc today has a DVI output.


----------



## pietnoeck

Hi ,

I have a Humax 1000 box and connected it to the port3 last week and did not have any sync-problems on the HD channels with john's box.

Didn't check what the box was putting out, but I think I went tru all output-settings.

I'll try again tonight.


----------



## jacovn

John,

If you ever plan to make another series of Barco modules, i would like to have one for a BG808S


Jaco


----------



## cossie0

Baggy, anyone


Have you got your SKY HD box hooked up to it yet?


My wife is desperate to move so I had to place the house on the market and hence cancel my HD install  .


I now have one of Johns boxes that will be an ornament for the next few months but I would love to know what the picture quality is like via the box.


cheers

Darren


----------



## JohnHWman

Thanks for the small review Reinier !


I'm proud of it 

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.Bauer*
Remember to turn Peaking in the Picture Tuning menu OFF! This is important. The Barco turns it automatically on, but it introduces unwanted Edge Enhancement in the picture.
Good point, I forgot to mention this important point on Barco's   I think Baggy rized this some months ago... This is due to the high bandwith (180MHz) of the output filters that are mounted inside the module.


John


----------



## Rittberg

Hi John,


After Reinier's review, please put me on the list for a BG 1209s


Thanks,

Rittberg


----------



## Rittberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.Bauer*
Mine arrived today, and the improvement is simply jaw-dropping!

Previous source was a radeon 9800Pro with the RF-filter removed. This thing simply blows the Radeon away.

Reinier
Hi Reinier,


At what resolution you are running the 1209s ?


Thanks,

Rittberg


----------



## crowy

Hi John,


Please also put me on the list for the next batch. For use with a Barco Graphics 808s.


Thanks, Simon.


----------



## R.Bauer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Rittberg*
Hi Reinier,

At what resolution you are running the 1209s ?
1920*[email protected]


----------



## thorr

Hi John, could you please confirm that I am on your list for the next batch? Can you post the list? Thanks!


Mike


----------



## Graham Johnson

John, I need one for a Cine 7. Will your standard design fit?


Can I have a price, and get on the list please?


Graham


----------



## Rittberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes Yuval,


However, these tools already exists in the market and they are available :

i.e. http://www.audiooutfitter.com/store/HDMI-RPT.html 


John
So, It's possible to use this kind of "tools" or this one in order to use a 15 meter DVI cable and to run at 1920 X 1080P ?


Thanks,

Rittberg


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Rittberg*
So, It's possible to use this kind of "tools" or this one in order to use a 15 meter DVI cable and to run at 1920 X 1080P ?
Yes Rittberg


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Graham Johnson*
John, I need one for a Cine 7. Will your standard design fit?
No, sorry Graham 

The cine 7 series didn't have the "COMM. Port" plug beside "Port 3". Some others french forum members already asked for...


John


----------



## JohnHWman

FYI :

Speedplay, picree and vipath modules are gone.


No reply from Greg1292 for 2 weeks by now...


John


----------



## Rittberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes Rittberg 
So what is the best way to connect a 15 meter DVI cable from the source to PJ

using a repeater :

1. Short cable > Repeater > 15 meter to PJ

2. 7.5 meter > Repeater > 7.5 meter to PJ

3. 15 meter > Repeater > short cable to PJ


Thanks,


Rittberg


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Rittberg*
7.5 meter > Repeater > 7.5 meter to PJ
I would say option 2 but you should be aware that 1080P still require good quality DVI-D cable ...


John


----------



## Rittberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
I would say option 2 but you should be aware that 1080P still require good quality DVI-D cable ...


John
I need an advise about - what is "good quality DVI-D cable"

Is this cable , a good one ?


----------



## JohnHWman

Hello Rittberg,


Use 1080P certified DVI-D cable like : http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...les/eedvid.asp 


If a cable is not 1080P approved, I would suggest not buing it ...


John


----------



## TinToy

John,


What's my position on your list?


TinToy


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *thorr*
Hi John, could you please confirm that I am on your list for the next batch? Can you post the list? Thanks!

Mike
Hello Mike,


Here is the list of the members for the second batch of 17 pieces :


- WTS for Zenith Pro1200x(Barco Cine8 Onyx)~BG808

- Z-Photo for ??

- secstate for ??

- Daniel Bishop for BG808

- thorr for ??

- leeky for BG1209s

- J/C for BG808s

- danielfparker for BG1208/2

- SteveB for BG808s

- trinitron for BG808

- geisemann for ??

- dominical2 for BG1209s

- Qaiser for BG808s

- nobby8628 for BG808

- huneg for BG808

- Byter for BG808

- Andrew Christopher GIBSON for BG808s


Please fill the missing informations (projector serie) and confirm or deny your interrest of beeing recorded in this list.


Thanks


John


----------



## SteveB

Hi John,


Absolutely!!!


Looking forward to it, did you say 5 units a week? If so does that mean about 2 weeks to get to me and a couple of days shipping?


When/how do we pay, paypal?


You are a star!


Steve


----------



## J/C

Hi John,

Great news, that is the list we have all been waiting for.

Please send me your bank details when you are ready for payment.

Can't wait to get my hands on one.


Regards,

John.


----------



## trinitron

Hi John,


confirmed - just drop me an email or PM with your bank account details.


Thanks,

Martin


----------



## Roland Janus

Please add me to the list for a G70.


thanks, roland


Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Hello Mike,


Here is the list of the member for the second batch of 17 pieces :


- WTS for Zenith Pro1200x(Barco Cine8 Onyx)~BG808

- Z-Photo for ??

- secstate for ??

- Daniel Bishop for BG808

- thorr for ??

- leeky for BG1209s

- J/C for BG808s

- danielfparker for BG1208/2

- SteveB for BG808s

- trinitron for BG808

- geisemann for ??

- dominical2 for BG1209s

- Qaiser for BG808s

- nobby8628 for BG808

- huneg for BG808

- Byter for BG808

- Andrew Christopher GIBSON for BG808s


Please fill the missing informations (projector serie) and confirm or deny your interrest of beeing recorded in this list.


Thanks


John


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Roland Janus*
Please add me to the list for a G70.
Sorry Roland,


These are for Barco projectors, not Sony I'm affraid 


Payment to be done only when modules are ready to be shipped, not before, thx.


John


----------



## dominical2

Im still in for the Barco 1209s board


----------



## RobboNL

Hi John,


Did you receive my PM / email ?


I like one for a Barco 1209s.



Thanks!

Rob


----------



## JohnHWman

Sorry RobboNL,


No more BG-DVI modules available than these 17 until now. These 17 modules were reserved a loooooooooooooooooong time ago by patient members.


I will let u know if further modules can be done later on but I doubt...


John


----------



## RobboNL

I'll keep my fingers crossed then ;-)


Hope to hear from you.


Cheers

Rob


----------



## Rittberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Sorry RobboNL,


No more BG-DVI modules available than these 17 until now. These 17 modules were reserved a loooooooooooooooooong time ago by patient members.


I will let u know if further modules can be done later on but I doubt...


John
Hi John,

So, No chance for a module if I am not in the list ? 


Rittberg


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Rittberg*
So, No chance for a module if I am not in the list ? 
Sorry Rittberg,


Today no, the list is full for months.


Tomorrow : I don't know and can't promise 


I'm quite puzzled that so much people are awaiting for this small add-on, and no company decided to build/produce them in volumes yet ... 


John


----------



## leeky

Hi John,


Great news!


Can't wait to get the small toy. Hope to hear from you soon.


Thanks

ky


----------



## Roland Janus

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Sorry Roland,


These are for Barco projectors, not Sony I'm affraid 


Payment to be done only when modules are ready to be shipped, not before, thx.


John
I know, in that thread, but didn't you do ones for sony?


cheers, roland


----------



## kal

Moome makes ones for Sony (and NEC, etc).


Kal


----------



## nobby8628

Hi John


Yes still very interested in the box, my projector is a Barco 808 Data. Let me know when your ready for payment ... i can do via paypal. thanks for the update on the list ... good to see my name there!



Merci mate


----------



## geisemann

I finally got a new manifacture for my HDMI/DVI direct inject and the supply is unlimited! Now I dont have to wait months for people to fill an order.


This option gets a much better picture than port3 about 70% sharper and simply 100% better than port 5.


It takes the Silicone Image chip same as Moomie and everyone else is using and puts it directly into the port 3 card with the correct balancing. The result is a sunning image !


I have ordered 100 Silicon image boards and can possibly do a bulk discount for direct injection dvi/hdmi. This is a full HDCP compliant and strip product.



http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu= 


Please email for details as I Am not on this site often.

[email protected] 


Greg


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg,


Direct injection, it sounds a new turbo booster for a car or something. Please explain what you mean by " Direct Injection" and correct balancing?


----------



## laric

It probably does the same as what Jhon does for Sony's (Input board replacement)... Whereas Jhon decided to do it external and on port 3 on Barco's.


I won't comment on Barco's but I have tested on my 1292 a prototype version from John, and it was pretty difficult to see the difference between the build in card solution (that I use in the end) and the external one feeding the regular IFB11... 


--Patrice


----------



## WTS

Hi Patrice,


And what was the builtin card solution you speak about, was it plugged into the port3 slot inplace of the port3 card.


----------



## JohnHWman

Builtin card was developped for Sony PJs as these have spares slot(s) to hold the DVI boards internally.


FYI, "Port 3 card" / PCB is not only managing the Port 3 input : it is a big board that hold quite a lot of components. Replacing this Barco electronic board by a new one with DVI processing is costly and need end-user some risky dismount operations !


John


----------



## WTS

Hi John,


Actually from looking at the port3 board schematics and the RGB switcher schematics, I'd say there's not much to removing it altogether and replacing it with a DVI card.


----------



## Roland Janus

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Builtin card was developped for Sony PJs as these have spares slot(s) to hold the DVI boards internally.


FYI, "Port 3 card" / PCB is not only managing the Port 3 input : it is a big board that hold quite a lot of components. Replacing this Barco electronic board by a new one with DVI processing is costly and need end-user some risky dismount operations !


John
That's why I am asking for one for a G70. 


Do you still make them?


roland


----------



## geisemann

Well Direct Inject does not go though any cables. It produces a much sharper image becuase I mount the Silicon image chip right to port 3 and remove the mother-board , port 3 problems and cables to the external box.


The picture difference is quite amazing.

You can go to my website to see the before and after.


If you ever tryed the external moomie vs internal you will see it too.



This product is an offical HDCP licence too..


----------



## WTS

Hi Greg,


So where do you have the DVI connector located. I did check your site but didn't see anything on this Direct inject unit.


----------



## thorr

Hi Greg,


I was wondering the same thing. Your site says the DVI port is located inside the projector. How do you plug a cable into it? Maybe there is a way to replace the 9-pin Port 3 input with an HDMI input. That would be cool!


My port 3 input has a slightly unstable image. I have tried multiple sources and the scan lines in the picture are a bit bumpy. I don't know how to describe it better. Port 5 is fine. If I purchased your DVI mod, would it come with the higher end capacitors on the port 3 card and do you think it would make the image stable?


Thanks,

Mike


----------



## WTS

Mike,


The DVI connector needs to be as close as possible to the DVI chip for it to work properly, so unless the he has the board mounted on the back panel I don't know.


----------



## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
Hi Greg,


So where do you have the DVI connector located. I did check your site but didn't see anything on this Direct inject unit.
Greg has my 1208/2 port 3 board for one of the upcoming batches. This is the information I received when asking him the same question:


"The port mounts on the side of the chassis inside on the 12xx and on the 808 it mounts through the rear grill."


----------



## thorr

Thanks guys. That makes sense. Hopefully Greg can answer my other question regarding the scan line stability issue I am having.


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
The DVI connector needs to be as close as possible to the DVI chip for it to work properly...
Really true and important point WTS,


The four TMDS differential links between DVI-D plug and Silicon Image IC MUST be lay-out using short and impedance matched 100 ohms pairs unless you loose digital bandwidth.


This is essential to let the device been able to accept 1080P60 digital signal  .


Thorr : do you confirm your module request in the list ? If so, what is you PJ type ?


John


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *WTS*
Hi Greg,


So where do you have the DVI connector located. I did check your site but didn't see anything on this Direct inject unit.
If you look at his mods page, it is called "DVI Direct Connect".
http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...enu=#DVIDirect 



In the picture, it is mounted in a 120x chassis. If you look at the picture, it looks like board is placed between the metal chassis and the plastic case. The DVI cable is black and entering the PJ from the lower left of the picture. You can see the RGBHV lines running from the board back to the port 3 board.


Dave


----------



## apple156

Quote:

I have ordered 100 Silicon image boards and can possibly do a bulk discount for direct injection dvi/hdmi. This is a full HDCP compliant and strip product.
So wat discound are you thinking about?

For me the price of the direct injection kit is a bit to costly, but a cheaper similar solution could be interrested.


Peter


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *apple156*
So wat discound are you thinking about?

For me the price of the direct injection kit is a bit to costly, but a cheaper similar solution could be interrested.


Peter
I am curious to. I don't mean to downplay your work Greg or the results you are getting, but in effect, you are taking a $200 moome external and soldering the wires from the VGA output to the port 3 connector in effect, creating what is essentially a moome internal for the Barco. Given that the going rate of DVI inputs for CRT PJs is around $200, I think the price needs to be much closer to this.


Now, what I would get excited about is a board that completely replaces the port 3 board instead of soldering to its connector. That kind of a board with the results your getting would compell me to pay more than $200, but not 3 times more. 


Dave


----------



## MadMrH

I think people need to be a bit more open minded here.......


Johns cards are great - he gives his time for free and the cards are sold at cost price - We ALL thank him for this, his time is given to help others better enjoy their products.....


Greg is a seller of projectors, mods, system installation etc - he makes his living from these products.


As I understand Gregs DVI Direct is more than just soldering to the board - he has found a way to make the port 3 better..........and you pay for that too.........This is why he requests you send him the boards.........


you pay your money and take your choice........I have Johns card, but will also have gregs mods as well..........


no one is "better" just different options for everyone to choose...............for this im happy.


----------



## thorr

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Thorr : do you confirm your module request in the list ? If so, what is you PJ type ?


John
John, yes I requested it back on page 4: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...32#post7262632 


I have a Barco Graphics 808.


Do I have a chance to get one?


Thanks.


Mike


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
I think people need to be a bit more open minded here.......
I guess that was directed at me. But I really don't know what I'm being closed minded about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
Johns cards are great - he gives his time for free and the cards are sold at cost price - We ALL thank him for this, his time is given to help others better enjoy their products.....
I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but I've got one of John's modules and while it is good, it still goes through the port 3 circutry and is diminished because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
As I understand Gregs DVI Direct is more than just soldering to the board - he has found a way to make the port 3 better..........and you pay for that too.........This is why he requests you send him the boards.........
Well, then you understand quite a bit differently than me. In fact, Greg had shown pictures of this mod before and it was quite literally soldering from the output of moome's card wires to the port 3 connector. I'd like to know what you understand that is different.


But Andy, I think you miss my point. My point is that for a Sony, Quee, or NEC, I can get an internal moome card that looks great for about $200. I have now used every DVI input option available that can be used on a Barco with the exception of Greg's and none of them come close to the performance of an internal card. But, our beloved Barcos may be left out in the cold. If an internal DVI input for the Barco costs $650 and one for a Quee costs $200, the Barco becomes a less cost effective platform. My point here is that to be competitive and keep Barcos in the running, we need a comparable quality internal DVI input (which it looks like Greg has produced) at a price comparable to input cards for other PJs.


Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
no one is "better" just different options for everyone to choose...............for this im happy.
Actually, video performance is measurable so yes we can determine the best solution. And I, for one, want the best solution for my Barco. And after experimenting with every Barco option as well as internal and externals on Sonys and Quees, I firmly believe that the best picture can only be achieved with an internal solution. I just want a good one at a reasonable price! 


Dave


----------



## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but I've got one of John's modules and while it is good, it still goes through the port 3 circutry and is diminished because of it.


I have now used every DVI input option available that can be used on a Barco with the exception of Greg's and none of them come close to the performance of an internal card.


Well, then you understand quite a bit differently than me. In fact, Greg had shown pictures of this mod before and it was quite literally soldering from the output of moome's card wires to the port 3 connector. I'd like to know what you understand that is different.

Dave
I think you just answered for yourself why it may cost more to get a better solution, as you say John's $258 product isn't as good as you had hoped for.


Greg has just posted he is getting his own supply of SI boards, so I doubt his current product is using moome's external box.


Disclaimer - I have recently had my video processing boards modded by Greg and am waiting for one of his DVI mods, but have no other involvements with Greg, and no intimate knowledge of the upcoming DVI mod offering. Sure, I wish he were selling his services for half the price, but that isn't the case. I wanted a better image, and don't have the personal knowledge nor expertise to enhance the projector circuits myself, so I had to pay someone who did. For me, the extra money spent allows me to use the current HD source offerings and keep the investment I have in my current projector.


----------



## A/Vspec

Will these mods work with the new Blue Ray and HD-DVD players and there HDMI outputs?


----------



## MadMrH

Dave hi.....


RE:


Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMrH

I think people need to be a bit more open minded here.......


Dave "I guess that was directed at me. But I really don't know what I'm being closed minded about."


NO, no no,nope, not at all !!!!


Hope that clear - I just meant "people" in general................No one in particualar..........just that these are the options and thats that for us. did not mean YOU in any way - or I would have said "Dave".....



YES an internal card would be better - by all the same I meant using the same IC.


Gregs direct port3 is different "I think" he popped in here about 2 weeks ago and we spoke about many Barco mods/ideas etc.......


I am actually gonna mod Johns card to go into port5, I also have some port5 DVI-D inputs on order (NOT from John or Greg) When they get here I will try them out.......


Im gonna mod the Barco mother board so Johns card is connected to port5 not port3.......seems the best option for me........


It also depends VERY much on which Barco you have.......the 1209s onward have much better port5 circuits IMHO, so port3 on older units does someimes look better than port5 BUT ONLY on the early units again IMHO.


Greg is able to take some of my ideas a stage further and actually produce the items, I really dont have the time to do this, nor do I really want to , that is also why I have great respect for John and what he is doing to better our pictures.


I can have a conceptual idea but NOT able to design/build it...........My daily job in the Pro AV market means I do this daily with every project we are involved in being custom built systems......always looking for a better way........


(In fact I know some firms dread my calls as they know it means work to redesign things.........the better firm, may dread the call but thank me for the final result.........that is progress)


His external board is a good all round idea, I have had about six people with Barcos in the UK ask me about DVI inputs - each person uses different kit and switching so it has been impossible for me to try and think of ONE box solution to suit many, John card does this, thats why Im gonna mod the PJ to suit MY needs.........


----------



## MadMrH

Quote:

Originally Posted by *A/Vspec*
Will these mods work with the new Blue Ray and HD-DVD players and there HDMI outputs?
Thats the idea and if you have time to look back MANY people are running with toshiba HD DVD players,


I have run with DVI-D from my pc - differing results BUT that is because im running some high bandwidth stuff and pushing limits - or past them!!!!


Thats my fault.......


CABLE for DVI-D is also a concern - the cable runs quoted for the format are VERY small.......the 15m runs I need are gonna have to be fibre optic! it looks like......


As we build ccustom cables every day the fibre I have to special order and cant make here, thats gonna hurt my wallet.....................


Still cant really complain..............


----------



## A/Vspec

Thanks, I may just have to get on John's list for his next batch. I currently run a Snazio Hi-Def play that has DVD-I and just use a DVI to VGA adapter and run that into port-5 of my Barco808s with stunning results of Hi-Def movies and material. Would this mod give me even better results with Hi-Def and stard DVD upconverted to 720P?


----------



## leeky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
John,

I already had the HD-Leeza set up to output 1080p to my Barco via the BG-DVI.

This was the first time I've had a HDCP source in the loop.

The output from the HD-Leeza is [email protected]
Hi John,


What is the bandwidth at [email protected]? In my HTPC, the clock rate at that resolution is around 172Mhz. How can I sure the bandwidth is not exceeded by using other video processor which has the output at [email protected]?


KY


----------



## JohnHWman

Hello Ky,

Quote:

Originally Posted by *leeky*
What is the bandwidth at [email protected]? In my HTPC, the clock rate at that resolution is around 172Mhz.
The default pixelclock of 1080P60 on HTPC is often above 165MHz (then it exceed the single DVI link BW specification) and exceed BG-DVI maximum pixelclock rate.


To be compatible with single link specification, 1200p or 1080p TFT displays use reduced timings (then reduced front and back porchs on digital video path) so the pixelclock become lower than 165MHz.

Quote:

How can I sure the bandwidth is not exceeded by using other video processor which has the output at [email protected]?
Normaly, single link DVI output video scalers must output 1080p60 mode with reduced timings (then pixelclock is always 

John


----------



## danielfparker

John,


Just confirming my place on your list for my 1208/2.


Daniel


----------



## leeky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Hello Ky,


The default pixelclock of 1080P60 on HTPC is often above 165MHz (then it exceed the single DVI link BW specification) and exceed BG-DVI maximum pixelclock rate ......
Thank you John


KY


----------



## AU-Tiger

Guys,


You can also take the route that Secstate did for his Barco.

Get a Sony internal and a sony switcher.


----------



## JohnHWman

AU-Tiger,


Be aware that using Sony Switcher will limit the video BW to 70MHz. That is written inside Sony switcher specifications.


So it is ~OK for 720p or 1080i (pixelclock is 74.25MHz) but not for 1080P.


John


----------



## AU-Tiger

OK -


A qualifier


Only to be used for Barco 808 projectors....


----------



## geisemann

No I gave up on Moomie a long time ago I have a custom company making my boards cheaper and they work much much better!

I had problems with others....


- No official License. 1080p problems not sync and not compatible with Nvida video cards


- Customer support problems.



My new Direct inject is


-1080p full!

- Official License-

- Mounted directly to the port 3 card no cables at all!

- Upgraded port 3 circuits

- Upgraded Silicon image design with superior filters

- All connections to the mother board taken off line

- Upgraded caps on port 3 and on Silicon Image daughter board

- Picture 95% better than external

- At high freq 1080p the cables, motherboard, card connector, and port 3 all heavily blur the image and cause ghosting.


I will have pictures of 2nd generation direct inject. Email about prices I can do a volume discount.


If you find a better card your money back !


www.eisemann-theater.com 


Greg


----------



## JohnHWman

Inventor's module gone.


Still got no PM reply from Greg1292 for 3 weeks by now... Does anybody knows his e-mail address so I can contact him ? Please MP me this information, thx.


Still awaiting for 17 BG-DVI PCB to be build this week.


John


----------



## geisemann

While the 1208 and 1209 Barco Projectors are excellent units they suffer from input problems. With all the new Digital Content being released DVI or HDMI is a must with today theaters. Long analog cable runs blur 1080p signals and direct digital always gives a much better picture.


So far to date we have tested every external and direct connect box port 3 device and had problems getting a good picture. We are all familiar with transmission line loss especially at 1080p. The higher the frequencys the greater the loss of transmission lines. After carefully analysis we also noticed that the Silicone Image video processor chip on external boxes has transistor amps on the RGBVH output Lines to drive the long cable 75 ohm lengths thus lowering the BW of the image and adding noise to the signal. There really is no advantage of using an external DVI box on a high end projector because you will lose the advantage of a Direct Connection. Ring or Ghost was always present because of cable issues and the ports on the back of the unit not being balanced also Port 5 has to go through a extra set of circuits that lowers the BW and port 3 while sharper and able to resolve higher BW seems to always Ring or Ghost no matter how good the cable is. We were determined to get rid of this Ghost Effect and we engineered a direct DVI to Port 3 solution.


This solution takes advantage of balancing each color with removing all the external transmission line balancing resistors mounted on the port 3 card. This way the DVI video processor chip can send the signals right into port 3 without adding noise from RGB, Vertical and Horizontal amp transistors. We then upgrade all the band pass and filter video caps with high grade capacitors. The effect is simply amazing not only was the ghost not present the actual resolution improved almost 95%. The photos below are untouched very high resolution close up photos. Pictures taken with a 1208 unit results even more extreme on a 1209. People always want to upgrade there projectors from an 8 inch to a 9 inch unit. From a 1208 to a 1209 however without the correct inputs, adjustments, calibration and screens there will not be an improvement. With the DVI MOD we arrived at a sharper image than a 9 inch with a much less cost. This Mod with a 9 inch is even sharper.


* 1080p verified

* Official HDCP Licence

* HDMI and DVI

* Removes all connections from Barco Motherboard and Port 3 to make the image extra sharp.

* Special power supply filters, and high grade cap filters are added to the DVI processor board.

* Special tuning of the port 3 card to ensure the correct color balance, vertical and horz stability.

* Removal of all 75 transmission line resistors to allow video processor to drive port 3 directly without the aid of transmission line amps









http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu=


----------



## alan halvorson

Ok - I assume this can be done with a BG808s, Greg? I hope so. I see where the connection is made to the board but how is the cable snaked into the projector from the outside? Do you need only the Port 3 board or what?


----------



## geisemann

Hi,


I just run the DVI right into the board as shown and put a small hole in the case to run the cable out. IF people want an external port I just buy a DVI-HDMI extension cable and put the port anywhere on the projector to where the customer wants.


The nice thing I do is remove all the preamps after the Sillicon chip that woudl normally have to drive a 75 ohm load in a transmission cable. That way the chip drives the transistors right on the port 3 card this way you do a direct drive removing noise from extra preamps needed. To do this you need to remove all the 75ohm ballancing resistors because they pull down the sync and colors and have to reballance the video signal with the correct value to get the right P-P to get the correct ballance of picture.


I will do some before and after screen shots soon. Works well and my supply of silicon is unlimited. I can do a volume discount if interested. I am not on here that often so email for info.


Greg


----------



## TexKeen

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Inventor's module gone.


Still got no PM reply from Greg1292 for 3 weeks by now... Does anybody knows his e-mail address so I can contact him ? Please MP me this information, thx.


Still awaiting for 17 BG-DVI PCB to be build this week.


John


Hi John

Still don,t know if I am on your list for a BG-DVI foe a Barco 1209 yet.

Have been asking for a while could you let me know by email or a post


Thanks

Tex


----------



## picree

John-Thank you sooooooo much for the module.  


VERY nice work...VERY professional. Great and ingenious future-proofing solution for Barco CRT's.


I hope to test it this weekend....if I can convince my my neighbor to bring over his Lumagen...


----------



## A/Vspec

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AU-Tiger*
Guys,


You can also take the route that Secstate did for his Barco.

Get a Sony internal and a sony switcher. 
I have an 808s. Do you have more info on this mod? A link perhaps?


Thanks,


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *picree*
John-Thank you sooooooo much for the module.  

VERY nice work...VERY professional. Great and ingenious future-proofing solution for Barco CRT's.
Thanks Picree,


Also thanks to CRTMaster not claiming his two modules 


John


----------



## dominical2

Any idea when the Barco cards will ship ?


----------



## JohnHWman

Hi dominical2,


Still waiting for the 17 pieces of BG-DVI PCB from the factory. Should be there soon now.


The BG-DVI batch assembly will start from then.


John


----------



## jtnfoley

It's a pity the volumes of all of these clever devices is so small (tse gamma circuit, MP5 and Beun's transcoders, your DVI solution...) I have in my pocket a production board house that makes a LERGE assortment of DC and mixed signal boards for automotive and communications electronics applications. Just about any process you care to name can be accomplished, but the volumes are too small for them to bother with.


----------



## tanwn

Is there any hdmi or dvi board for Barco cine series? thanks.


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

Is there any hdmi or dvi board for Barco cine series? thanks
I don't think you're paying attention. Scroll up a bit until you hit a post by Gregory Eisemann. He modifies boards for the Barco 1208 and 1209 series and I presume the Barco 808 and Cine series also. Best of all (he claims) and unlike everyone elses HDMI solution, his are within the rules and official. So far as I know, this is the only HDMI board available for Barcos. He lists his website - e-mail him and ask.


The solution that started this thread is a box built by JohnHWman that screws onto Barco Port 3. I doubt that it's officially sanctioned, but as it's powered by the projector and can't be used as a all-projector solution, it's at least within the spirit of the rules.


----------



## Inventor

Hi John,


I have received the DVI module and it was a great improvement. The picture is notably sharper than on the analog output on my Momitsu V880N, and I thought that was good.


For those who have a Momitsu, I can recommend this way to go. You just have to get a new cable and are up and running in minutes.


----------



## trinitron

@Inventor


what resolution are you using with your Momitsu ? (mine on the 880DX is [email protected]) any changes you have to apply or is the output on DVI-D the same as on DVI-A ?


Thanks


----------



## Inventor

Quote:

Originally Posted by *trinitron*
@Inventor


what resolution are you using with your Momitsu ? (mine on the 880DX is [email protected]) any changes you have to apply or is the output on DVI-D the same as on DVI-A ?


Thanks
For the analog output I used 1024x768 (I guess 50Hz) and now I am using [email protected] for the DVI-D. At this resolution I can barely make out the scan lines, so I don't see any use in going to a higher resolution. I shortly tried 1080i but that looked softer.


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
I don't think you're paying attention. Scroll up a bit until you hit a post by Gregory Eisemann. He modifies boards for the Barco 1208 and 1209 series and I presume the Barco 808 and Cine series also. Best of all (he claims) and unlike everyone elses HDMI solution, his are within the rules and official. So far as I know, this is the only HDMI board available for Barcos. He lists his website - e-mail him and ask.
There is no HDMI board available for any CRT projector from any person anywhere in the world today.


There is no chip yet that anyone has been able to use in this configuration. Greg, John, and moome all use the exact same chip and it is 8 bit RGB only. It does not support everything an HDMI solution does, namely YCrCb and 10 and 12 bit. Luckily, there are no 10 or 12 bit sources and just about every HDMI source I've seen (not all but the majority) convert YCrCb to RGB quite well, so this is not an issue.


I think you will find that other than potentential legal issues you mentioned, Greg's solution and John's differ in really only two ways:

1) Greg's is attached to a modified port 3 board he claims cleans up and eliminates ringing. Unless you modify your board, John's will be attached to a stock board.

2) Greg's hardwires the ourput of the DVI board straight to the input pins of the port 3 connector. John's goes through the bad circutry from the DB9 connector to the port 3 board.


You could use John's to make yourself basically Greg's by soldering minicoax straight from the DB9 connector to the input pins on the port 3 connector (just like Greg did) and modfifying your port 3 board mostly by replacing caps.


You will also find that both solutions share a common issue, they use the port 3 board instead of replacing it!


Dave


----------



## laric

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
...just about every HDMI source I've seen (not all but the majority) convert YCrCb to RGB quite well, so this is not an issue.
Well, that is mandatory, HDMI sources must be compatible with DVI and this implies thay must output in RGB if connected to a DVI device. (DVI only supports RGB).


That is part of the HDMI 1.x specs.


--Patrice


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *laric*
Well, that is mandatory, HDMI sources must be compatible with DVI and this implies thay must output in RGB if connected to a DVI device. (DVI only supports RGB).


That is part of the HDMI 1.x specs.


--Patrice
This is correct and true and what I was trying to say. But, I say it with the caveat that some sources do not convert YCrCb to RGB correctly and for those sources, the picture is better (with no color issues) when connected to an HDMI input and allowed to send YCrCb than connected to a DVI and forced to convert to and send RGB. Sorry if I confused the issue.


Dave


----------



## geisemann

I do more than just solder the chip to my board.


I modify and cut over 10 connections, add 12 more in and add 13 components.


So its not a matter of just connecting a chip to port 3. IT requires re-engineering.


I am re-engineering a port 5 board as well.


The result is a higher BW signal that resolves more resolution.


We dont use the transmission line amps to overcome the 75 ohm balancing resistors on port 3. Thus eliminating a stage of amplification that external boxes have to have to drive the load.

www.eisemann-theater.com 


go custom product line


Very high discounts aval for AVS members. send email to
[email protected] for more details.


WE have already sold a lot and are fully parted up for a larger production


Greg


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I do more than just solder the chip to my board.


I modify and cut over 10 connections, add 12 more in and add 13 components.


So its not a matter of just connecting a chip to port 3. IT requires re-engineering.
As I said (emphasis added):

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Greg's is attached to a *modified port 3 board*


----------



## JohnHWman

Greg,


FYI, my Silicon Image RGB output reconstruction filters were adjusted to minimize the Barco Port 3 ringing impedance (compensation).


Your solution is better than mine, that's true especially at 1080P because you skip as much as input circuits as possible within the projector. The only drawbacks are :


- Cost vs handwork (3 times my solution),

- End-user need to dismount one card from the PJ, send it by mail and put it back inside the unit after its update.


Some people don't want to open their PJ and remove boards, they may be scared of doing that (ESD damage, ....). That's why my solution is still a good compromise, I think...


John.


P.S. I definitely don't want to be a competitor of your business as I'm only doing these by personal interrest, not earning my living with these... Otherwise, I would have sell these modules in hundreds with more expensive price


----------



## geisemann

I really like what everyone is doing. I think your system is great!


I am not saying anything is better than anything else and would never do that.


It just that certain members are putting down peoples products and are not actually testing them before they do and I agree there is no best product for anyone.


I think we all need to team tougher and keep these quality BARCO units alive!


GREG


----------



## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I do more than just solder the chip to my board.


I modify and cut over 10 connections, add 12 more in and add 13 components.


So its not a matter of just connecting a chip to port 3. IT requires re-engineering.


I am re-engineering a port 5 board as well.


The result is a higher BW signal that resolves more resolution.


We dont use the transmission line amps to overcome the 75 ohm balancing resistors on port 3. Thus eliminating a stage of amplification that external boxes have to have to drive the load.

www.eisemann-theater.com 


go custom product line


Very high discounts aval for AVS members. send email to
[email protected] for more details.


WE have already sold a lot and are fully parted up for a larger production


Greg
Greg,

How's your Port 5 board coming along?

Have you come to any conclusions as to which port on a 1209s produces better results?

Kevin


----------



## readyhost

I think i may need to upgrade after reading this lol


----------



## vipath

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Greg,


FYI, my Silicon Image RGB output reconstruction filters were adjusted to minimize the Barco Port 3 ringing impedance (compensation).


Your solution is better than mine, that's true especially at 1080P because you skip as much as input circuits as possible within the projector. The only drawbacks are :


- Cost vs handwork (3 times my solution),

- End-user need to dismount one card from the PJ, send it by mail and put it back inside the unit after its update.


Some people don't want to open their PJ and remove boards, they may be scared of doing that (ESD damage, ....). That's why my solution is still a good compromise, I think...


John.


P.S. I definitely don't want to be a competitor of your business as I'm only doing these by personal interrest, not earning my living with these... Otherwise, I would have sell these modules in hundreds with more expensive price 
Hi John:


I tested my Barco DVI-HDCP board last night, it is the most wonderful upgrade to my BG 808S projector. It is a "plug-play" device and took me less than one minute to hook it up.


I hook it up to my Momitsu v880dx DVI, and the picture is so much better/sharper than the Port 5 RGBHV input. It makes scanning lines very visible at 960P. It produces the best pictures that I ever have with my projector.


You are the greatest guys to keep Barco owners ready for the future.


Thank you so much for your dedication, hard work, professionalism and prompt shipping. I am sure Barco will charge thousands for a custom/handmade device like this.



Thanks again with the best regards!


----------



## JohnHWman

Thanks Don !


I'm happy to read that. I think you'll enjoy it for years 


About next batch : I received the PCB last week and I'm close to finish mounting the WTS, Z-Photo, sectata, Daniel Bishop and thorr modules now.


I still got no news from greg1292 about his module (ready for 1 month now). I may propose his module to someone else (leeky ?).


John


----------



## secstate

John,


Awesome I didn't know I had made your list, but I am very excited that I did. Let me know when you are ready for payment.


secstate


----------



## geisemann

Port 3 are quite popular cards and we have been running out of parts.

I have been giving out a few port 3 cards for test and people love them color and sync very clear. If I do a barco mod set I typically give them a free Port 3 card with DVI chip right on the card.


Port 5 I will be designing next week and see how the picture stacks up on a brand new 1209s to do a BW test.


Email if you have any questions to
[email protected]


----------



## MadMrH

SELL ME THE 1209s ........................


(Please!)


----------



## keniflyhi

I just wanted to share my experience with Greg Eisemanns DVI Port 3 mod. The results are absolutely amazing. I run my D*networks 811 HDTV receiver straight to Gregâ€™s DVI card in my 1209. I have had it for over a week now and every time I turn on my projector, I am still amazed at its added detail and depth of color. Discovery HD has always looked great, but with Greg's card, I feel like I could jump right thru the screen into the Amazon rain forest. It is now hard for me to even watch my upscaled HTPC DVDs thru port 5 because the port 3 picture is soooo much better now. (Any one recommend a good DVI switcher?) I will be first in line to get the mod Greg is doing for port 5!

-Ken


----------



## geisemann

Sorry its sold.


I have a nice mod 1209 picture better than the 1209s


Greg


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

Discovery HD has always looked great, but with Greg's card, I feel like I could jump right thru the screen into the Amazon rain forest
Please don't make me want this right now or I'll hurt you  - I'll have to finally buy this card and a scaler with digital connections and an HD player and I don't want to spend the bucks right now.


----------



## A/Vspec

Yea, knock it off all ready!!! I just bought a new house and money is tight! 


So tell us about the port 5 mode!?!? Is it going to be better? More money? Less money???


----------



## Geordon

My DVI-HDMI cable just shipped from BlueJeansCable. Hope to hook up a Toshiba HD-DVD player next week to test out Greg's Port 3 card on my 1208/2.


Geordon


----------



## JohnHWman

Update : WTS, secstate, J/C modules are gone today.


No news from Leeky and Daniel Bishop.


I'm starting building Daniel Parker, Steve B, Trinitron, dominical2, Qaiser's BG-DVI modules now.


John


----------



## trinitron

John,


great news, looking forward to it. Please drop me a note with your account details so that I can transfer the money.


Thanks,

Martin


----------



## leeky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Update : WTS, secstate, J/C modules are gone today.


No news from Leeky and Daniel Bishop.


I'm starting building Daniel Parker, Steve B, Trinitron, dominical2, Qaiser's BG-DVI modules now.


John
Hi John,


Sorry for late reply. Is the module still a/v? I'm ready to send you the payment now.


leeky


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *leeky*
Sorry for late reply. Is the module still a/v? I'm ready to send you the payment now.
Yes leeky, your module is still allocated to you.


I MP'ed you today about it.


John


----------



## Ninja77

So is this second batch the last of them going to be made? If so I'll go with Gregs port 3 mod


----------



## JohnHWman

Don't know for sure Ninja77. There will be maybe one big batch of 100xBG-DVI and 100xIFB-DVI (for Sony PJs) in september. This batch is planned to be assembled by third party company as I'm tired of doing these by hands ...


Also, Greg's port 3 mode may deliver a sharper picture (in 1080P only) than my BG-DVI design since he bypass a lot of input stages within Port 3 input board ...


John


----------



## Ninja77

Fair enough John, thanks for the quick reply and for your help to those that were lucky enought to get them


----------



## Ninja77

By the way kick the crap outta Germany when you get to the World Cup


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Ninja77*
kick the crap outta Germany when you get to the World Cup


----------



## JohnHWman

BG-DVI modules production status :


Daniel parker, Steve B, Trinitron, dominical2, Qaiser and nobby8628's modules are ready to be ship.


Still no news from Daniel Bishop.


John


----------



## leeky

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Rittberg*
So what is the best way to connect a 15 meter DVI cable from the source to PJ

using a repeater :.........
Which is the better option for a 15meter cable to transmit 1080p signal: fibre optic DVI cable or good quality copper cable + DVI booster/ repeater? The price for above options are almost the same.


What is the difference between a DVI booster and repeater?


Leeky


----------



## MadMrH

Hi,


As far as I know ONLY fibre optic cable is actually capable of the 1080p signal.


I am looking into this, I run 1080p on my barco 1209s, with Johns DVI card.


I have resolution issues which I think is the cable.


It is a high quality copper 1m long cable BUT I do not get a correctly resolved 1080p picture.


I have not looked into fully yet.......


----------



## dominical2

With only a 1m cable I doubt it has anything to do with resolving 1080p . What issues are you having ?


----------



## nobby8628

Hi John


just to let you know that you should have received paypal payment from me as promised. 


please confirm receipt and when you plan to dispatch the mod. 


thanks again


----------



## JohnHWman

Modules shipping status :


Daniel parker, Steve B, dominical2, Qaiser and nobby8628's modules been shipped.


No news from Trinitron in Germany.


I will finish this batch next week (6 modules left to complete).


John


----------



## Daniel Bishop

John,


Just sent payment sent via Paypal.


Can't wait to install the module and fire it up!


Regards,


Daniel Bishop


----------



## picree

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MadMrH*
Hi,


As far as I know ONLY fibre optic cable is actually capable of the 1080p signal.


I am looking into this, I run 1080p on my barco 1209s, with Johns DVI card.


I have resolution issues which I think is the cable.


It is a high quality copper 1m long cable BUT I do not get a correctly resolved 1080p picture.


I have not looked into fully yet.......
Member SPH is running 1080p into a moome in a G90 using a 25 foot copper DVI cable. We haven't seen any issues.


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Daniel Bishop*
Can't wait to install the module and fire it up!
Sent today Daniel 


Trinitron should be in holidays 

Quote:

Originally Posted by *picree*
Member SPH is running 1080p into a moome in a G90 using a 25 foot copper DVI cable. We haven't seen any issues.
Yes, I do agree. Numerous french forum BG-DVI owners used it with 30 ft 1080P approved Ethereal cable bought from Digital Connection : NO sparklies displayed so far running at 1080P60.


However, I would admit that the DVI/HDMI transmitter have impact on the TMDS quality signal too 


John


----------



## leeky

Hi John,

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
Yes, I do agree. Numerous french forum BG-DVI owners used it with 30 ft 1080P approved Ethereal cable bought from Digital Connection .....
How about 40ft long cable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JohnHWman*
However, I would admit that the DVI/HDMI transmitter have impact on the TMDS quality signal too...
good or negative impact?


leeky


----------



## geisemann

I have been experimenting with the port 3 card and on the DVI I sell with the Direct DVI on the CARD I have done some modifications to version 2.5 to really make the stability much better by removing the NEG Sync components. It gets rid of the entire wavy ness and makes the picture super stable. I also upgrade the power supply of port 3 to get rid of noise.


This shows the picture of the changes.

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu= 



So far to date its been hard to keep up with orders on Port 3 Direct Connect. But we have keep the turn around on port 3 one week and the picture is amazing people are so happy with the sharpness.


Greg


----------



## JohnHWman

BG-DVI production status : huneg, Byter, Andrew C. Gibson, videoGrabber and Malcom Winter's modules are ready to be ship. MPs/e-mails sent.


This 17 pieces batch is now finished  I'm currently setting the third party company to build the next 100 batch in september  .


Wish you all good summer holidays and happy HT viewing experiences 


John


----------



## trinitron

Hi John,


just returned from my 3 weeks vacation to Kos/Greece and found your message. Thanks for the effort and I just paypal'd you the money.


Looking foward for the module and thanks again,

Martin


PS

next question: where to get a good cable ...


----------



## danielfparker

John, Thank you for my module.. It arrived in New Zealand today.


Regards

Daniel Parker


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *trinitron*
just returned from my 3 weeks vacation to Kos/Greece and found your message. Thanks for the effort and I just paypal'd you the money.
That's what I was thinking for Martin... Wish you had good time up there (I've been in Greece islands many times for sailing  ) You module is going to be ship with the remaining ones 

Quote:

Originally Posted by *trinitron*
next question: where to get a good cable ...
Only depends on the lenght you need...

Quote:

Originally Posted by *danielfparker*
John, Thank you for my module.. It arrived in New Zealand today.
It's a long way from France


----------



## trinitron

John,


vacation was great and there were a lot of nice sailboats  - one of them with two upper decks, very sleek design and around 45m in length (the biggest 1-mast sailboat I've ever seen)


the length for my current setup (Momitsu or PC close to PJ) would be around 5m - if I place a potential HD solution below the screen where the A/V receiver is it would be around 10m


What's the recommended max. length for a copper based solution that's 1080p capable ?


Thanks,

Martin


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *trinitron*
What's the recommended max. length for a copper based solution that's 1080p capable ?
Hello Martin,


With a good quality copper DVI-D cable (Ethereal,...) you can pass 1080P60 mode up to 10m. I've got several french forum members that use this lenght with this mode without any color sparkling on display. However, these kind of '1080P ready' cable are quite expensive (150â‚¬). With 5m lenght, your can pass 1080P60 with almost middle quality cable manufacturer (Norstone blue, ...)


Hope this help


John


----------



## JohnHWman

BG-DVI module status update :


Trinitron, VideoGrabber, Andrew G. and Enrico C.'s modules have been shipped today.


No feedback from huneg and Byter, they should be in holidays  I'm going to take my summer holidays too (for the next couple of weeks  )


I'll keep you informed of the availability of the next batch of modules (sept.). The production company starts to source the BOM components and start building the PCBs now 


Have a good summer holidays.


John


----------



## geisemann

I just redesigned the RGB signal path of the port 3 card last week.


Tested it and wow what a difference. I managed to see scan lines where none were present before. They are now avalible on V3.0 DVI card.


If anyone got a verson 2.0 from me I can do the upgrade for free to verson 3.0


Greg


----------



## R.Bauer

Greg, get your own thread.


----------



## Arno P

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.Bauer*
Greg, get your own thread.
Makes sense, in a way


----------



## Geordon

Can't wait to see the upgrade. I have sent mine back for V3.0.


----------



## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
If anyone got a verson 2.0 from me I can do the upgrade for free to verson 3.0


Greg
Can't wait to see the improvements. I have sent mine back for the upgrade.


----------



## geisemann

I have tryed and AVS wont let me . They close it and state its the same topic.


They are werid. I will try again?


----------



## trinitron

@John


the device has arrived and works fine - true plug & play 


The improvement in picture sharpness on my Momitsu DX 880 is very notable and the colors seem to be more 'vibrant' - haven't tested HD from my PC yet (due to missing longer cable) though.


Thanks for your hard work to keep CRTs running in the digital world,

Martin


----------



## armin

@John


I would like to order a module for a 1209s


Thanks

Armin


----------



## bkobus

John, sent you a pm. looking to get a module for a 1209/2.


----------



## jtnfoley

John, can you speak to the pinout and power requirements (I've got the 801 service manual, but could not find the info last time I looked.)


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

John, can you speak to the pinout and power requirements
If you scroll far enough back (I think to page 3), you'll find a link to the manual. Probably you'll find out everything you need to know there. I don't believe, however, that this box will not work with a Barco 801 (if that's what you own) because of the different connector spacing on the pj.


----------



## A/Vspec

Will these mod's work with the new HDMI 1.3 spec?


----------



## dominical2

It appears Johns unit is pulling the 30v needed to power the HDMI input card from the Comm port . You could cheat a bit with a couple of short DB9 Male to female cables but it can be a problem to keep the cables in place . Both DB9 connections have to be exactly spaced together between the comm port and the port 3 input of the projector used for Johns adapter to fit on the Barco's . Here is the manual :

http://johnhwman.chez-alice.fr//Proj...r%20manual.pdf


----------



## dominical2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *A/Vspec*
Will these mod's work with the new HDMI 1.3 spec?
Good question . I would think John is using version 1.2 or this :

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_...ion_Rev1_2.pdf 


but John will have to confirm this . God you mean it gets worse ?


----------



## jtnfoley

I ask because I'm flirting with the idea of daughtering a JohnHWman BarcoDVI board onto an Ampro RGB2 (this is topical) or NEC ISS card... if I can find an appropriate 30v brick power supply...


----------



## VideoGrabber

jtnfoley,


I believe there's a jumper on the card that allows it to be powered from +5V DC.


- Tim


----------



## quickmicha

@John


I would like to order a module for a BG808s


Thanks

Micha


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jtnfoley*
I ask because I'm flirting with the idea of daughtering a JohnHWman BarcoDVI board onto an Ampro RGB2 (this is topical) or NEC ISS card... if I can find an appropriate 30v brick power supply...
The BG-DVI module will work from 10 to 33V PS input (it is using a embedded DC/DC converter).


The BG-DVI module can also been powered through +5V delivered from DVI (or HDMI) output. The module need to be hardware updated to use this power mode (it's a solder drop to change on the board). This operation is explained inside te user manual. However, be carefull to NOT use a HDMI or DVI cable with longer lenght of 15 feets with this mode of power.


FYI, alan halvorson's post is right about Canon's plugs pitch spacing 


Hope this help.


John


----------



## Daniel Bishop

John,


Tried an idea from another post to connect to CRT.

Didn't have long enough HDMI - DVI cable, but had 2 (each) DB9 Male to Female cables...


HD DVD - HDMI to DVI Cable - JohnWHman Module - 2 DB9 Male to Female Cables - RS232 & Port 3.


Initial viewing looks promising!


Daniel


----------



## BamaSUXs

how about a 80% off sale.....


----------



## geisemann

Hi,


For people who do not want to upgrade to an internal DVI and use the external solution. Please send me your port 3 card. I can make it digital ready and MOD it to improve the sharpness for the new 1080p about 100%, color , and black level.


That way you can keep the external box you have purchased and get the Digital Benifits of a clean port 3 signal.


IT takes about 3-4 hours of circurt changes and I can send a schematic possibly if you are good with a soldering Iron. You need to change about 29 parts.


Greg
www.eisemann-theater.com


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *quickmicha*
I would like to order a module for a BG808s
Hello Micha,


I've recorded your name in the 100 BG-DVI waiting list (post : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=703549 )


John

P.S. Still got no feedback from *huneg*. Your module is still available !


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Daniel Bishop*
John,

Tried an idea from another post to connect to CRT.

Didn't have long enough HDMI - DVI cable, but had 2 (each) DB9 Male to Female cables...

HD DVD - HDMI to DVI Cable - JohnWHman Module - 2 DB9 Male to Female Cables - RS232 & Port 3.

Initial viewing looks promising!

Daniel
Yes it works Daniel,


However :


- This mode of wiring is forbidden by the HDCP rules (2x DB9 Male to Female Cables - RS232 & Port 3),

- The converter chip used inside this module is not designed to drive coaxial cable and some initial tests were made using 1m long 75 ohms quality coaxial cables (with SiI907B prototype) and the result in PQ was poor.


John


----------



## Phil Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
I have tryed and AVS wont let me . They close it and state its the same topic.


They are werid. I will try again?
Buy a freakin' membership and AVS may lighten up on you a little. All you use this forum for is to posts ads. It wouldn't hurt you to give them the small cost of a membership. That way you won't have walk all over someone else's thread (John's). Very rude! Not helping your business' image at all!


----------



## geisemann

Well I am not trying to sell a whole new dvi card. I am just saying if you send in your port 3 I can make it much sharper without the connected DVI.


You can keep the external DVI.


GREG


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

This mode of wiring is forbidden by the HDCP rules
Just out of idle curiousity - are the HDCP police ok with this box? Have they contacted you? It's not like this is some underground secret - it's right out in the open. I can't believe they wouldn't know about this workaround. I don't see why they wouldn't be ok with it, except for, possibly, the payment of fees.


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

if you send in your port 3 I can make it much sharper without the connected DVI.
What price for this?


----------



## geisemann

$300 for just the DVI.


It gives you S sharpness like port 5 by removing and adding parts.


I can give you a demo if you want to test.


GREG


----------



## alan halvorson

Quote:

$300 for just the DVI
I'm a bit confused - I thought you were offering a Port 3 mod without DVI to benefit those who had already invested in or preferred using an external DVI-to-RGB converter box (such as Johns')?


----------



## Ninja77

I'm gonna wade in on this as well, am I correct in assuming that the fully blown Port 3 card mod with all the bells and whistles is going to provide better PQ over the smaller less expensive mod you mention above?


----------



## apple156

Quote:

Hi,


For people who do not want to upgrade to an internal DVI and use the external solution. Please send me your port 3 card. I can make it digital ready and MOD it to improve the sharpness for the new 1080p about 100%, color , and black level.


That way you can keep the external box you have purchased and get the Digital Benifits of a clean port 3 signal.


IT takes about 3-4 hours of circurt changes and I can send a schematic possibly if you are good with a soldering Iron. You need to change about 29 parts.


Greg
www.eisemann-theater.com



Would love to have the schematic of your upgrade to port3


Peter


----------



## geisemann

I offer my DVI with the DVI right on DVI CARD.


However a lot of people have the external decoder already and I have can do the mods to improve port 3 some of the same as what I do on my DVI Card so you can keep the external decoders and save some cash.


Just an idea for some to save money. Email if you are interested. The sharpness difference is amazing and I can give a forum member a demo so he can post on here to see results.



I can give a hint ( Remove all the sync in green circurts, upgrade the power supply, and connect neg RGB to GND.


GREG


----------



## Speedplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by *apple156*
Would love to have the schematic of your upgrade to port3


Peter
Me too.

I asked for the schematic and I'm still waiting.

But I kind of figured that much; however

why post that you can send something and then not follow through?


----------



## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Speedplay*
Me too.

I asked for the schematic and I'm still waiting.

But I kind of figured that much; however

why post that you can send something and then not follow through?
Add me to the list!


Dave


----------



## kal

Me too Greg - I'd love to see that schematic. I'll post it on Curt's site if you're ok with it (less work for you to email to everyone).


kal


----------



## JohnHWman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
are the HDCP police ok with this box?
Yes, sure.
Quote:

Have they contacted you?
No, there is no reason  Built quantities are ridiculous for them 
Quote:

It's not like this is some underground secret - it's right out in the open. I can't believe they wouldn't know about this workaround.
Yes, they know about this workaround for sure but no much people can afford doing it 
Quote:

I don't see why they wouldn't be ok with it, except for, possibly, the payment of fees.
The fees payment is done when I buy the silicon devices through my company (appart for the HDCP annual fee  )


John


----------



## M.Pijloo

Hi John,


I've sent you a PM with my order for one BG-DVI Module for my Barco Graphics 1208s/2.


Please put me on the september delivery list. Thanks in advance.


Regards,

Marcel


----------



## JohnHWman

It's done Marcel


John


----------



## apple156

Quote:

I can give a hint ( Remove all the sync in green circurts, upgrade the power supply, and connect neg RGB to GND.


GREG
hi Greg


I'am sorry to say but a hint is not your promised schematic of the port 3 upgrade!!


Need some more info on that, you can PM me.


Kind regards

Peter


----------



## plissken99

I haven't read the entire thread, as there's just too much. But I assume the device is the same seen on page 1. Can anyone tell me how it compares to the external Moome device? I've been using the moome for a while, and it works nicely(HD-DVD over HDMI). Would there necissarily be an improvement here?


Also, how does it compare to the eisemann-theater.com's $600 solution?


----------



## BarcoBoy

I got Greg Eisemann's port 3 DVI mods a couple weeks ago and I am blown away by the sharpness and picture quality. I am running a 25 foot HDMI to DVI cable from my DirecTV HD receiver to my 1208. With 720p or 1080i it is INCREDIBLY SHARP.


He'll take your port 3 card, upgrade the circuitry to improve the signal, and then integrate a DVI port into the card. He told me it's a very short signal path and the picture backs up his claim. It is resolving so much detail I can see the scan lines in a 1080i picture from 12 feet away (80" screen).


I have also seen it do 1080p through this DVI port. Not in my house yet, cuz I don't have anything that generates a 1080p signal... yet.


I'd call Greg if you're looking for DVI or other mods. My 1208 with 45,000 hours (NOT A TYPO) looks awesome after all the work he did.


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## plissken99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BarcoBoy*
I got Greg Eisemann's port 3 DVI mods a couple weeks ago and I am blown away by the sharpness and picture quality. I am running a 25 foot HDMI to DVI cable from my DirecTV HD receiver to my 1208. With 720p or 1080i it is INCREDIBLY SHARP.


He'll take your port 3 card, upgrade the circuitry to improve the signal, and then integrate a DVI port into the card. He told me it's a very short signal path and the picture backs up his claim. It is resolving so much detail I can see the scan lines in a 1080i picture from 12 feet away (80" screen).


I have also seen it do 1080p through this DVI port. Not in my house yet, cuz I don't have anything that generates a 1080p signal... yet.


I'd call Greg if you're looking for DVI or other mods. My 1208 with 45,000 hours (NOT A TYPO) looks awesome after all the work he did.
Did you do the full on 7 board mod set in addition to the port 3 DVI mod, or just the DVI? If I spend that kind of money, I'm probably looking at mid next year. Sounds worth it though.


BTW, my pj is a Barco G808.


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## geisemann

This weekend we designed a custom 2 board system for the Barco S models.


We take your Port 5 Switcher and Port 3 and combine them into an amazing DVI input for the S projector only.


Gives you approx 75% better sharpness over port 5 on S units but we need both cards to take advantage to the improvements.


Model 4s.


Version 3 and 3E developed a coupe weeks ago had issues with the S model so after reviewing the engineering of the S model we found many areas to improve.


We and a couple customers were not happy with the results of V3 on the S model. V4s will not work on the Non-S


However, V-3 will work on the S but the picture will lack BW and be more blured at some resolutions. The NON-S works great with V3 however. So for anyone who tested there S units with V-3 wait unit you get V4s its much better.

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu= 


4s 1080p picture on a 1208s with old tubes !

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/imag...ies/v41080.jpg


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## BarcoBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *plissken99*
Did you do the full on 7 board mod set in addition to the port 3 DVI mod, or just the DVI? If I spend that kind of money, I'm probably looking at mid next year. Sounds worth it though.


BTW, my pj is a Barco G808.


I have a G1208. It was in rough shape after 45,000 hours of use in some office building, so I sprung for the FULL set of Greg mods. It is now the best looking display I have ever seen.


He also installed new P16 CRTs which had to be modified to work with my model Barco.


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## plissken99

If i were to do the 7 card mod, plus the DVI mod, what would the turn around time be? Me being without a projector is like taking away a junkies crack.


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## Geordon

I had the full set of board mods done along with the DVI port upgrade on my BG1208/2. I have been working with Greg over the past couple of months after reading his posts on this forum and checking his website. I started with v2.x then returned for the free v3 upgrade to overcome some input signal detection issues I was having going from my Toshiba HD-A1 HDMI to the DVI port. This weekend, I got everything reinstalled, connected, and reconverged for 1080i. Still needs a professional calibration, but the picture and color saturation is truly outstanding. About the only thing more I could ask for would be 9" tubes, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Of course, 6 months ago, I didn't even think I was going to be able to view HD-DVD on my CRT PJ. I had been using Port 5 for my HTPC VGA to RGBHV. My next experiment will be to go DVI out from the PC to Greg's DVI port.


Running the DVI/HDMI cable from the internal card out the chassis to the equipment room has been a small challenge, but I do like the theory that Greg promotes of injecting the signal into the processing path farther down the chain to reduce or avoid ringing, etc.


Greg has been very helpful in walking me through pulling and reinstalling boards over the phone, as well. This was the first time I had attempted doing anything inside the projector, so was a little apprehensive. The last thing I needed was to break a neck tube, or fry one of the circuits, so the hand-holding was much appreciated.


For the record, I paid for both the full set of board mods and the DVI port upgrade at prices above the more recent promotions Greg has been offering. I think for Barco owners wanting to bring your PJ into the world of HD, you should give Greg's solution serious consideration.


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## plissken99

So the actual DVI input is inside the chassis on the pj? Interesting, I can imagine that would be fun to figure out. Can it be done without drilling a hole in the chassis? I'd definitly like to do the 7 card mod set plus DVI input, it'll just have to wait a little while(may get the HD-144 lenses in the mean time). The hand holding will be needed for me as well, since I've never done much inside of it either.


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## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *plissken99*
So the actual DVI input is inside the chassis on the pj? Interesting, I can imagine that would be fun to figure out. Can it be done without drilling a hole in the chassis? I'd definitly like to do the 7 card mod set plus DVI input, it'll just have to wait a little while(may get the HD-144 lenses in the mean time). The hand holding will be needed for me as well, since I've never done much inside of it either.
At the moment, I am feeding the HDMI end through the square hole at the back (right side, if ceiling mounted), will need a little bit of a cut out to completely reclose the lid. Sorry for the lack of clarity in my attached pics, but the first one shows the Port 3 board with the HDMI cable attached in the upper right corner of the image. The second pic shows the cable coming out the square hole in the back of the chassis lid which covers the boards.


I did the HD-145 lens upgrade at the same time (to reduce downtime and number of time I had to redo geometry and convergence). Was originally planning on HD-144, but my source just happened to have an unused set of 145's, so went with that instead.


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## geisemann

Ok to release a couple of secrets about the S model.


When we were designing the V4s we looked at the Engineering of the Port 5 / Switcher on the S. Barco really messed up on the S model


The Barco cheeped out they put a high grade tranistor 5Ghz low feedback in the Signal path on port 5 and used a 1 Ghz on port 3. Also the resistance values were all off along with using a 5 V bypass caps on port 3 and the V+12, V-12 on the port 3 output is over 12V p-p talk about BW errors and over driving caps.


Once you correct this the path to the RGB output is much cleaner than port 5 actually. Barco Messedup port 5 on the S by putting all kinds of junk into it for the Line triplers etc.


So once you modify port 3 board it self you get a much better signel over port 5 through the modifyed port 5 switcher card.


I can give some hints. Port 3 has NEG and Pos colors pins where on the 909 barco units they got rid of this totaly because most modern systems use earth GND as a reference. In the old days they used a reference separate from Earth GND to possibly get rid Gnd Noise however this system actually added more in because it was not well designed. You need to get rid of the NEG section. This secton picks up harmonics from the pos section. The Caps in the NEG need to be removed and the NEG transistor needs to go away. I can show you how when I post the schematics.


The other problem is by passing port 3 transistors totaly and using a Opamp to amp the DVI Signal . And thats what we do on verson 4s along with the sync because port 3 output stage the cut off on the F Rolloff is like 500MHZ where the 1080p BW more like 3Ghz is better to resolve the full resolutions. However when port 3 was designed in the early 1990s for even the 800series the projectors with non-EM focus this was fine.


I can show the schematic of the port5/switcher on the S model. Next time I am on and show you how to replace the transistor and the caps, and two resistors.

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu= 

BTW typical turn around on mods has been 1 week without your unit.


GREG


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## apple156

Thanks for the info Greg!


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Geordon*
Running the DVI/HDMI cable from the internal card out the chassis to the equipment room has been a small challenge, but I do like the theory that Greg promotes of injecting the signal into the processing path farther down the chain to reduce or avoid ringing, etc.
Well, if you like that, then you should be an advocate for eliminating the stock port 3 board to achieve a cleaner signal path. This is quite possible with the Ophit Greg using on the port 3 board.


Dave


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## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Geordon*
At the moment, I am feeding the HDMI end through the square hole at the back (right side, if ceiling mounted), will need a little bit of a cut out to completely reclose the lid. Sorry for the lack of clarity in my attached pics, but the first one shows the Port 3 board with the HDMI cable attached in the upper right corner of the image. The second pic shows the cable coming out the square hole in the back of the chassis lid which covers the boards.


I did the HD-145 lens upgrade at the same time (to reduce downtime and number of time I had to redo geometry and convergence). Was originally planning on HD-144, but my source just happened to have an unused set of 145's, so went with that instead.
Hi Geordon,

Could you clarify a small point for me regarding the routing of the cable.

If I've read correctly the Port 3 board has a DVI connector attached to it.

I'm assuming you're using a DVI-HDMI cable and that you've fed it using the HDMI end from inside to outside through the small hole you've made.Thus leaving the DVI end inside connected to the DVI Port 3 board and then connected the HDMI connector directly to your player.

Is that correct?


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## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
Well, if you like that, then you should be an advocate for eliminating the stock port 3 board to achieve a cleaner signal path. This is quite possible with the Ophit Greg using on the port 3 board.


Dave
I don't know what you mean by "Ophit", but yes, I do like Greg's board that I have installed in my 1208/2.


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## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Baggy*
Hi Geordon,

Could you clarify a small point for me regarding the routing of the cable.

If I've read correctly the Port 3 board has a DVI connector attached to it.

I'm assuming you're using a DVI-HDMI cable and that you've fed it using the HDMI end from inside to outside through the small hole you've made.Thus leaving the DVI end inside connected to the DVI Port 3 board and then connected the HDMI connector directly to your player.

Is that correct?
I did not make any holes, yet -- that 1" square hole was already in the back of the lid.


Your description is one way to do it, and I may still reroute the cable in that direction. However, I have the cable reversed, because I am routing the player through the DVI in/out ports on my A/V receiver (to allow switching). So my current configuration is:


Toshiba HD-A1 --> 3' HDMI to DVI cable --> Marantz SR8500 --> 23' DVI to HDMI cable (through little hole in PJ case) --> HDMI to DVI adaptor --> Greg's DVI board soldered on Port 3.


I was planning on using the receiver as a DVI switcher between the Toshiba and my HTPC. I haven't connected the DVI output of the HTPC to Port 3 -- still using VGA to Port 5. Once I try this out, if I like it, as Greg says should be the case, I will probably leave the goofy configuration as above. If I opt to stay with the HTPC on Port 5, I will reverse the 23' cable and run Toshiba --> HDMI to DVI cable --> DVI Port 3 just as you outlined above.


Geordon


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## Baggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Geordon*
I did not make any holes, yet -- that 1" square hole was already in the back of the lid.


Your description is one way to do it, and I may still reroute the cable in that direction. However, I have the cable reversed, because I am routing the player through the DVI in/out ports on my A/V receiver (to allow switching). So my current configuration is:


Toshiba HD-A1 --> 3' HDMI to DVI cable --> Marantz SR8500 --> 23' DVI to HDMI cable (through little hole in PJ case) --> HDMI to DVI adaptor --> Greg's DVI board soldered on Port 3.


I was planning on using the receiver as a DVI switcher between the Toshiba and my HTPC. I haven't connected the DVI output of the HTPC to Port 3 -- still using VGA to Port 5. Once I try this out, if I like it, as Greg says should be the case, I will probably leave the goofy configuration as above. If I opt to stay with the HTPC on Port 5, I will reverse the 23' cable and run Toshiba --> HDMI to DVI cable --> DVI Port 3 just as you outlined above.


Geordon
Sorry about the hole, my mistake.

I've just opened up my case and have seen the same hole for the IR receiver.

It's conveniently located isn't it.


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Geordon*
I don't know what you mean by "Ophit", but yes, I do like Greg's board that I have installed in my 1208/2.
That little sub-board with the DVI connector on Greg's port 3 card is an Ophit DDA. This product:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP 


He removes the white case, cuts off the VGA connector, then solders the exposed wires to the input of the port 3 board.


My point was that with this, there is no need for the port 3 board. The RGB output of the Ophit can be run straight to the RGB switcher once the resistors on it are changed to increase the voltage. H and V sync signals can be taken to the port 3 board or straight to the mobo.


Dave


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## alan halvorson

Quote:

He also installed new P16 CRTs which had to be modified to work with my model Barco.
The question is - how much improvement was due to Greg's board modifications and how much can be attributed to the new P16 tubes? Tough making an assessment when everything is done at once.

Quote:

I don't know what you mean by "Ophit"
The Ophit referred to is the Ophit DDA-A001, an HDCP stripping, DVI-to-RGB converter. The claim is that Greg's DVI input card is actually the guts of the Ophit.


If the Port 3 card can be eliminated, as Dave says, what was its purpose in the first place? Why didn't Barco simply route the Port 3 DB9 connection to the RGB board and eliminate the cost of the Port 3 board?


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *alan halvorson*
If the Port 3 card can be eliminated, as Dave says, what was its purpose in the first place? Why didn't Barco simply route the Port 3 DB9 connection to the RGB board and eliminate the cost of the Port 3 board?
Sync processing as well as other corrections. For instance, the mobo requires seperate negative H and V sync signals. Port 3 will provide that from positive or negative synce on composite sync or sync on green.


As an aside, P16 tubes make a HUGE difference over 180 tubes. I and others can attest to that from experience.


Dave


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## Geordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Person99*
That little sub-board with the DVI connector on Greg's port 3 card is an Ophit DDA. This product:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP 


He removes the white case, cuts off the VGA connector, then solders the exposed wires to the input of the port 3 board.


Dave
That is interesting. So, why doesn't everyone just get an Ophit DDA and a VGA dongle to do the pin switching magic to Barco VGA format for under $200 instead of waiting for a custom-built external card from overseas?


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Geordon*
That is interesting. So, why doesn't everyone just get an Ophit DDA and a VGA dongle to do the pin switching magic to Barco VGA format for under $200 instead of waiting for a custom-built external card from overseas?
Prices are comparable. John's is built well. John's is also built specifically for port 3--i.e. he designed it to reduce ringing and such.


Dave


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## geisemann

Person 99 you are always wrong in fact I have never seen where you are right. In fact I am sending in a compaint for the first time in history of me reading this forum.


WE FIRST order a special Orphit Card with the transmission components removed.


Oprhit has an official license so we use it because other people are bootlegging it their license.


We then balance the port 3 card and modify over 30 items to increase BW and to get a much sharper picture vs. an external device.


Why do you think we remove 1/2 of the transistors and caps on the board to just say we do it and how do you think a board works with 1/2 of its components removed.


Also I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statements because what you are saying is totally false and itâ€™s well known that you are friends with the other mod builders and you are trying to discredit lots of hard research and development.


We also replace the transistors in port 3 to higher values to resolve a much sharper image.


Add special power filters in every stage of the RGB -12 and +12



We also remove the NEG section of port 3 to resolve more BW. WE remove the NEG/POS sync to improve stability.


Also you are wrong again. If you directly connect the DDA to a 1209 unit it will get a very dark picture the port5 switcher requires a 12+ 12- signal and you cannot achieve that from a chip that is powered by 3.35v.


Man on Man you need to go back to engineering school. Oh wait I donâ€™t think you are an engineer please tell me how a 3 v signal can power a card that needs over 12v. Why do you think barco amp the incoming signal.


Go ahead and add a DDA to port 3 and you will see it does not work at all.



I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statements this is getting really stupid that every time I come out with a new product you discredit it because you could not invent something for yourself and some other mod builder pays you I heard to go on the forum to badmouth me.


And I gaurentee we have the best picture possible! People who own it know it for sure!


GREG


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## Person99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
WE FIRST order a special Orphit Card with the transmission components removed.
Still an Ophit, that is what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
Ophit has an official license so we use it because other people are bootlegging it their license.
You tried to scare people into thinking moome's license was not legal. It is just as legal as the Ophit.


BTW, since you use the product, I would think you would know it is "Ophit" not "Orphit".

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
We then balance the port 3 card and modify over 30 items to increase BW and to get a much sharper picture vs. an external device.
I've didn't say anything about what you did or didn't do to the port 3 board other than you replace caps and transistors and modify circuits. In fact, I typically refer to it as a "modified port 3 board". Which is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
Also I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statments because what you are saying is totally false and itâ€™s well known that you are friends with the other mod builders and you are trying to discredit lots of hard research and development.
Interesting that this is your approach to discussion. And, I'm not friends with any of the other mod builders.


Should I talk to your atty about your slander toward me on Curt's site? It was proven wrong by several people coming forward there.


Is your atty going to handle moome case against you for lying about his license on a public forum--or have you deleted that post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
Go ahead and add a DDA to port 3 and you will see it does not work at all.
Actually, this was suggested by a real electrical engineer on the board. Two of us have done it without yet boosting the output. In stock form, the output is too low for this, but it does work The issue is just picture too dim due to J3 needs 1Vpp.


So, saying "it does not work at all" is quite far from the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
every time I come out with a new product you discredit it because you could not invent something for yourself.
I'm on a public opinion forum diiscussing the pros and cons of different available products--that is all. Just a hobbiest looking for the best value for my money. I'm sure guys like you don't like this, but that is the purpose of these forums.


Just so you know, the logical fallacy you just commited is called an ad hominem attack. Google it if you don't know what it is.


Quote:

Originally Posted by *geisemann*
GREG
We know your name, you don't have to shout it.


Dave


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## Kysersose

I'm going to close this thread (temporarily) until I can sort a few things out.


Kyser


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