# Crestron Systems - Programming?



## AceInfinity

I was wondering if anybody here could point me in the right direction to get a head start on my own with Crestron programming? Before anybody asks or tells me I may not have the requirements, I have myself my own login to the Crestron website, and I already have all the software through a valid dealer. I just need to learn how to use this software on my own so I don't have to wait for training or anything to get me started, as I don't know how far out that will be at this time.


Thanks!


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## HCCDesignGuy

If you have a dealer who was willing to give you access to the Crestron site & software (which if you're not an employee they are in violation of the dealer agreement doing),you can begin with their online classes and register on your own for classes.


If you're access level is that if an end user; you will not be able to do this. You should ask this dealer who gave you all this stuff to help you get registered for classes.


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## Neurorad

You may get the dealer in big trouble with Crestron, posting that info online. Dealer isn't supposed to share the software or login.


Different story if you're an employee of the dealer.


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## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22298116
> 
> 
> You may get the dealer in big trouble with Crestron, posting that info online. Dealer isn't supposed to share the software or login.
> 
> Different story if you're an employee of the dealer.



I'm an employee, they opened up business in my area and got me on working with them now so they can expand their business. These online courses, I actually haven't really done much on the site. Before I was eligible to get access though, I couldn't even find tutorials for anything about Crestron, whether I had the software or not. (Just to try and review material, because I knew I was going to get into Crestron or RTI programming in the near future at that point in time.)


They don't really have anybody yet in my area who is even willing, or capable of doing all the programming, although this is something I am heavily interested in so they want me to be their go to guy for this type of thing eventually for their company to grow in the world of DM. Most of these other people I work with are more interested in the installation. I've been programming in C/C++ and Assembly nearly all my life up to now, and it's still an interest of mine. I'm looking to trying something new now with my background knowledge in programming.


And right now, I don't even hardly know what SIMPL Windows programming looks like.


I've done installations for both RTI and Crestron now, but the software side of things on both ends is like trying to get into fort knox... Finally getting that opportunity with Crestron, but I would like to hear from some other Crestron programmer's around here as to how they think I should be getting started. Right now people out of their HQ in some other location have been doing the programming though for the job i'm currently doing however, so i've really ONLY been able to do the installation half. That's why i'm not getting any programming opportunities here, although i'm not getting any training right away for that reason either. I've got Crestron certification, and i've spoke directly to a Crestron representative about this, and he said I could go for training and that there was stuff online that I could do as well, but he said it may look a bit different to what i'm used to in programming, and that it might take me a bit to get used to.


I am highly interested in trying to get the best possible head start on this type of stuff though.


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## Neurorad

These are recs from a relative noob.

1. Subscribe to the Crestron yahoo group.

2. Sign up for training.

3. View the intro videos on the Crestron site.

4. Download the programming software.

5. Look through the demo programs.

6. Skip anything that says System Builder/SB.

7. Get your hands on an MC3 controller.

8. Play with it.

9. Attend training.


Any more experienced Crestron guys, please speak up if this is incorrect.


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## AceInfinity

Thankyou for trying to help me out, I appreciate any kind of effort.


I wasn't aware that there was a Crestron Yahoo group, but I have a few Crestron products so far. Not an MC3 but an MC2E Control Processor, and a few other devices, including touchpanels, etc...


> Quote:
> 6. Skip anything that says System Builder/SB.



Can you explain this one though? I've heard word from various people that System Builder is the one used for non-programmers, and SIMPL Windows is the one used by people who program the systems? Correct me if i'm wrong there.


My goal here was to at least get to the point where I can create my own Graphical User Interface in SIMPL Windows for the touchpanel and have it communicate to something. I've talked to another fellow Crestron programmer who does most of what i'm interested in doing at the current workplace (why i'm not programming; he's doing it all), and he mentioned that he created all the touchpanel visuals himself in SIMPL Windows.


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## total control

There are a few pieces of software that you will need to get familiar with in order to do what you aim to do.

The 3 most maybe prominent are SIMPL windows, VTPROe and Crestron Toolbox.

Basically the programming its self is a product of SIMPL, while the graphics are a product of VTPROe, where Toolbox is a tool set to help communicate and setup your equipment...

I cant imagine doing much of anything useful without being familiar with these.


System Builder is more of a wizard that utilizes these other software pieces and implements previously programmed products of SIMPL, VTPROe.

Its aim is to make use of the Crestron products more simply for those not well familiar with the software stated above.

Usually does what it is intended to do well, but in the world of custom electronics, it is found by many programmers to be too ridged and complex to modify.


That is the jist of it, but I would imagine the training courses will go over all that.

Good luck


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## AceInfinity

Thanks for that, I knew SIMPL Windows and Crestron Toolbox are very important, this current programmer shows me what he works on from time to time, and that's usually what he has open. As well a couple times DM tool, but that's becuase of the certain system we're designing. VTPRO i've heard a bit about also.


I believe for Crestron Toolbox based on what i've been doing up until now is used to send the program to the devices; communication to and from the device to send and receive the system files?


Training courses, i'm on my w2ay (soon).


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## weddellkw

You'll need up to date versions of the Crestron Database and Device Database as well. Easiest way to get everything at once is Master Installer.


The best thing, if the Crestron dealer is serious about having you learn programming/etc, would be to give you at least temporary 'dealer' access to the Crestron website/FTP so you can download the software suite.

Or have their current programmer 'remote' in to your computer and log in to Master Installer once to start the download/installation process.


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## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *weddellkw*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310182
> 
> 
> You'll need up to date versions of the Crestron Database and Device Database as well. Easiest way to get everything at once is Master Installer.
> 
> The best thing, if the Crestron dealer is serious about having you learn programming/etc, would be to give you at least temporary 'dealer' access to the Crestron website/FTP so you can download the software suite.
> 
> Or have their current programmer 'remote' in to your computer and log in to Master Installer once to start the download/installation process.



But earlier I already mentioned I have the latest software and all that. I just need to learn how to build my own simple system so that I can play around with it and learn to get the general idea down in my head.


I have all the credentials and equipment and software needed to do the programming right now. I just don't have the required knowledge yet to do so, so there's another programmer that flew in from the United States to do the programming here for the system we're installing.


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## amirm

First thing you need to do is forget everything you know about programming! I am serious. Nothing about Crestron programming (in SMPL) is like normal computer programming. Instead, what they have built is the equiv. of TTL logic that we used to use to design hardware a few decades back. SMPL Windows is a GUI that lets you pull in these logic blocks and interconnect them. That is what they mean by programming. You then design your user interface in VTPro and assign "join numbers" which you then instantiate in SMPL windows to create actions around them. Forget about all the fun you may have programming in C/C++. This thing will make you want to pull your fingernails out sometimes. Everything you want to do has to be based on pulling in a logic module to do it. There is no such thing as typing "If this, do that." The underlying code, SMPL, is C-language like. But you are not allowed to write your whole program in there. But rather, creating more logic modules which you won't have a need to do.


I assume you have some kind of touch panel to start with (I recommend that over iPhone, etc. which requires fair bit of config to get going). If so, try to write the equiv. of "hello world." Create a button it that will be used to toggle the internal relays in the controller. Assuming you have installed SMPL Windows, then go there and try to write a program that turns the relay on and off. Without training at Crestron this will probably take a few weeks







. I did it over a weekend but you really have to be familiar with the above concepts to be able to get through it all the steps from compiling, to downloading to devices and writing the program.


Start by reading the manual page for SMPL Windows and VTPro. If these two don't get you on the right path then you need to sign up to take the class which unfortunately is not offered on the web. You need to fly to the few locations where they teach them.


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## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310488
> 
> 
> First thing you need to do is forget everything you know about programming! I am serious. Nothing about Crestron programming (in SMPL) is like normal computer programming. Instead, what they have built is the equiv. of TTL logic that we used to use to design hardware a few decades back. SMPL Windows is a GUI that lets you pull in these logic blocks and interconnect them. That is what they mean by programming. You then design your user interface in VTPro and assign "join numbers" which you then instantiate in SMPL windows to create actions around them. Forget about all the fun you may have programming in C/C++. This thing will make you want to pull your fingernails out sometimes. Everything you want to do has to be based on pulling in a logic module to do it. There is no such thing as typing "If this, do that." The underlying code, SMPL, is C-language like. But you are not allowed to write your whole program in there. But rather, creating more logic modules which you won't have a need to do.
> 
> I assume you have some kind of touch panel to start with (I recommend that over iPhone, etc. which requires fair bit of config to get going). If so, try to write the equiv. of "hello world." Create a button it that will be used to toggle the internal relays in the controller. Assuming you have installed SMPL Windows, then go there and try to write a program that turns the relay on and off. Without training at Crestron this will probably take a few weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I did it over a weekend but you really have to be familiar with the above concepts to be able to get through it all the steps from compiling, to downloading to devices and writing the program.
> 
> Start by reading the manual page for SMPL Windows and VTPro. If these two don't get you on the right path then you need to sign up to take the class which unfortunately is not offered on the web. You need to fly to the few locations where they teach them.



This is very interesting... By your word from what i'm used to programming this will be a breeze! I've done tons of stuff down the the kernel in Windows, and to move to this where all you do is arrange logic blocks... At first impression you can't blame me for thinking that this is like lego. Wow.


Is there any SDK's for Crestron? I think I have one for e-Control, but i've heard they are trying to move or support the C# language with Crestron programming? They'll probably have to release their own library for that to ever happen though since the .NET framework was built around the Windows operating system and not Crestron.


I've heard things, but honestly until I get a better 'insider' look at Crestron programming, I can't say I know for sure on anything.


TTL logic, that's my research for today I guess










> Quote:
> The underlying code, SMPL, is C-language like. But you are not allowed to write your whole program in there.



Can I ask you if you know what this underlying code is for then? Is there any reason or need to modify this code? Can I (will Crestron allow it)?


If I can create Logic modules? What would be the best case or reason for somebody doing that then if they allow you the option to do it?


Thanks for the information, I knew this would be a good place to come for information, instead of just keeping in the dark and trying to figure everything out on my own. Because i'm a smart guy, but i'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything, so the best I can do is just learn as much as I can through others who have more knowledge in a particular field than I do.


Really appreciate it everyone! and thanks again amirm


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## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310638
> 
> 
> This is very interesting... By your word from what i'm used to programming this will be a breeze! I've done tons of stuff down the the kernel in Windows, and to move to this where all you do is arrange logic blocks... At first impression you can't blame me for thinking that this is like lego. Wow.


I am also a Kernel programmer and unfortunately that skill does not get you anywhere either. Yes, instantiating blocks on the screen is easy. But you have to completely change your ideas of how you write programs. You need to learn about such things as one-shot timers, debouncers, etc. This is the sample UI:











You have to manually interconnect all of those blocks. There are no loops, no if statements, no assignments, etc. Instead there are "logic flows," "edge triggers," etc.


> Quote:
> Is there any SDK's for Crestron? I think I have one for e-Control, but i've heard they are trying to move or support the C# language with Crestron programming?


That was the plan but they have yet to deliver. They were supposed to move to Visual Studios type of IDE and better GUI creation than the crude VTPro but it is still not there. Once they go there, it will obsolete what you are about to learn







.


> Quote:
> Can I ask you if you know what this underlying code is for then? Is there any reason or need to modify this code? Can I (will Crestron allow it)?


The underlying code is C language compiled using GNU compiler. SIMPL Windows is just a front-end/code generation tool. It will spit out C code that the GNU compiler in turn compiles into machine language. There is a simple event driven engine that executes the building blocks in SMPL Windows. Per my earlier post, you can program in C but they become modules and cannot describe the whole system.


> Quote:
> If I can create Logic modules? What would be the best case or reason for somebody doing that then if they allow you the option to do it?


The modules are there for things that can't easily be built out of logic blocks. Let's say you wanted to apply some math function to a value. You would write that in SIMPL and make a block out of it that would then process values coming to it from SMPL Windows. Folks also use them to build the equiv. of device drivers. It is a crude form of object oriented programming.


> Quote:
> Thanks for the information, I knew this would be a good place to come for information, instead of just keeping in the dark and trying to figure everything out on my own. Because i'm a smart guy, but i'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything, so the best I can do is just learn as much as I can through others who have more knowledge in a particular field than I do.
> 
> Really appreciate it everyone! and thanks again amirm


You are welcome







. I learned Crestron on my own with no help. I wish someone had described what I just said to me as that would have saved me good bit of head scratching







.


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## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310750
> 
> 
> I am also a Kernel programmer and unfortunately that skill does not get you anywhere either. Yes, instantiating blocks on the screen is easy. But you have to completely change your ideas of how you write programs. You need to learn about such things as one-shot timers, debouncers, etc. This is the sample UI:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to manually interconnect all of those blocks. There are no loops, no if statements, no assignments, etc. Instead there are "logic flows," "edge triggers," etc.
> 
> That was the plan but they have yet to deliver. They were supposed to move to Visual Studios type of IDE and better GUI creation than the crude VTPro but it is still not there. Once they go there, it will obsolete what you are about to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The underlying code is C language compiled using GNU compiler. SIMPL Windows is just a front-end/code generation tool. It will spit out C code that the GNU compiler in turn compiles into machine language. There is a simple event driven engine that executes the building blocks in SMPL Windows. Per my earlier post, you can program in C but they become modules and cannot describe the whole system.
> 
> The modules are there for things that can't easily be built out of logic blocks. Let's say you wanted to apply some math function to a value. You would write that in SIMPL and make a block out of it that would then process values coming to it from SMPL Windows. Folks also use them to build the equiv. of device drivers. It is a crude form of object oriented programming.
> 
> You are welcome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I learned Crestron on my own with no help. I wish someone had described what I just said to me as that would have saved me good bit of head scratching
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .





> Quote:
> Once they go there, it will obsolete what you are about to learn .



Hahaha, I'm used to that, the switch from Windows development on earlier systems to the new Windows 8 and former "Metro" UI with WPF is a switchover for sure. One of the many things that sets you back before you can start stepping forward again that i've encountered in the technical world







It's great though, technology is advancing so quick, that's why I like it, you're not doing the same things over and over, and you're almost like a student all over again.


See i'm used to C++/C, GNU, and OOC. So I have the background knowledge but there's that one fence I still have to climb over to see what's going on in the world of SIMPL Windows and Crestron...


> Quote:
> I learned Crestron on my own with no help.



So it is possible -- At least I know i'm not going to reach a dead end if some time and effort is put into it. Kudo's for that, that's pretty good you were able to learn it on your own with no help. I know lots of people that couldn't do that, but that's the way i've been learning nearly most of what I know today, outside of what school has taught me so I could forget all of it later on haha.


I do appreciate this though, your time is definitely not being wasted here...


I've currently got a MC2E 2 series controller, and that touchpanel you assumed I had, is an ST-1700C wireless one way. I've also got a CNRFGWA RF Receiver that I believe is needed, otherwise I can't communicate with the Touchpanel at all to send information back to the MC2E? I've got a few other touchpanels, but I think this would be an interesting starting system for me.


Trying to get control from the touchpanel's actions may be a bonus, I just want to see if I can get things communicating in some way, doesn't matter what it is.


Goals:

-Creating my own Touchpanel GUI

-Communicating through the RF receiver from the Touchpanel (possibly to do something else later on, if I get that far)


I'll progress from there and build onto this test improv system as I go along. I've got a basic idea of what my devices do though, i've read all the Crestron documentation for what i've got. Maybe at some point in time i'll give in and see if I can create my own system for my house in the future!










Not yet sure if i'm doing this right, but i've started by adding my controller, which is the first step I believe, and now building the system off that main "brain".



http://imgur.com/LjUJ0.png%5B/IMG%5D



This 300ft range on the RF signal from my touchpanel is plenty for basically anything i'll be doing though just for the learning.


P.S. I noticed my name and my dealer are in the System Config







I basically get my signature on any system programming i'll be doing in the future I guess.


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## Neurorad

Aceinfinity is slightly ahead of me. I've used Toolbox to make the connection between my PC and a Pro2, via an Edgeport USB-serial adapter.


Any recs for a TP? I could actually use a TPMC-8x eventually, and it appears to be Core3 compatible, so I'm leaning in that direction. (EDIT - no, they're not)


Where does Simpl+ fit in? Seems that I need to become familiar with the limitations of Simpl before I understand the need for Simpl+.


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## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310964
> 
> 
> Aceinfinity is slightly ahead of me. I've used Toolbox to make the connection between my PC and a Pro2, via an Edgeport USB-serial adapter.
> 
> Any recs for a TP? I could actually use a TPMC-8x eventually, and it appears to be Core3 compatible, so I'm leaning in that direction.
> 
> Where does Simpl+ fit in? Seems that I need to become familiar with the limitations of Simpl before I understand the need for Simpl+.



From the least that I know Core3 UI seems to be fairly nice for the GUI creation side of things. When I did research just to learn what my programs did, it was fairly appealing to me at first.


I've always wondered that as well, SIMPL+ vs. SIMPL Windows, in my SIMPL Windows program I notice SIMPL+ stuff, but I believe there was a tidbit of information in a PDF I found online for that distinction. I'll share it with you. http://www.crestron.com/downloads/pdf/product_misc/pg_sw-simpl-plus.pdf 


Those TPMC 8's are very nice looking as well! What I am currently installing for our customer I believe, is a TPMC-9... But the actual boxes they come in have the documentation booklet for it all, I just don't have that title in my head to be sure that it said it was a TPMC-9, but they look like the exact ones i'm using. Man, they look nice though.


But now there's the whole touchpanel vs. "I can use my iPad/iTouch/iPhone for controlling this stuff" debate going on... People generally choose the apple devices for non-commercial stuff nowadays because:

a) It's less expensive than a nice looking touchpanel

b) It's more justified: - I buy an iPhone/iPad, I get to use it for what it's intended for, and controlling my system at the same time, no limitations, and it's portable.


So I guess when the future comes for me, that's what i'll be doing for residential, and commercial, which is the gig i'm currently in, mostly touchpanels.


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## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310964
> 
> 
> Aceinfinity is slightly ahead of me. I've used Toolbox to make the connection between my PC and a Pro2, via an Edgeport USB-serial adapter.
> 
> Any recs for a TP? I could actually use a TPMC-8x eventually, and it appears to be Core3 compatible, so I'm leaning in that direction.


My method of using Crestron is a remote control with touch screen for the living room where I need hard buttons for up/down and need small form factor. Here is my choice for that: (MTX-3) http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?type=commercial&cat=1009&subcat=1031&id=2114 . It is much cheaper than normal touch panels and more usable in that application. For other cases where you need a big touch screen, my choice would be the iPad. Yes you lose hard buttons and you have to wake up the darn thing but the cost savings are substantial. Per above, if I need hard button, I use traditional remotes.


> Quote:
> Where does Simpl+ fit in? Seems that I need to become familiar with the limitations of Simpl before I understand the need for Simpl+.


Simpl+ is what I mentioned as plain Simpl. It is the C programming environment to build modules to go into SMPL Windows. You should have no need for it.


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## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22310832
> 
> 
> Not yet sure if i'm doing this right, but i've started by adding my controller, which is the first step I believe, and now building the system off that main "brain".


It is. Build a simple program in it -- it can be anything -- compile and download it into the box. That way you learn what is involved in the work flow there. Ditto for getting your program into the touch-screen. Once you have all those basics, then try to control the relays which you can hear toggling if all works. This way you don't need any other equipment.


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## AceInfinity

I've gone through and marked your posts helpful *amirm*. I have 100% respect for you. You've been super helpful, and i'm grateful for how much I've learned from you just within these posts of yours. Things are starting to slowly make sense for me. I'll be on this forum for some time to come just because of you. I can see this being a great community to be for expanding my knowledge, and hopefully in the future I can be as generous as you in terms of sharing my knowledge and experience with others.


I've spent countless hours like you wouldn't believe just reading documentation for months up until I could actually use the program along with a few other things on the Crestron website, but I had no idea what I was doing. I only had the experience installing these devices and putting systems together. If I get the chance I plan to move forward to my DMC-E certification at some point in time.


Seriously though, I appreciate your efforts here. Thanks







The sky is the limit.


Regards,

AceInfinity


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## Neurorad

Much agreed with AceInfinity - thanks so much Amir, I don't thank you often enough!


Since I have no defined endpoint to my project, I'll probably hold off on the handheld for a year or 2, until I've figured out some basics, and Crestron has more handheld RC options.


Although the TPMC-8X has some QC limitations, I think it will serve my needs well for a temporary solution, on the test bench. Some items in the workshop to practice control include Nuvo GC, RA2, and LG TV.


Amir, I've read of workarounds in the yahoo group to keep the ipad awake, or isolate the ipad use to a single app, if you want to explore that further.


This seems as good a place as any to document a few basic knowledge items:


1. Pro2 detachable terminal blocks/Phoenix connectors (3.5mm pitch) can be purchased from EasyAdapters.com. Specific distributor links from the yahoo group are dead.

2. Any straight through serial cable can be used to connect a Pro2 to a laptop. As AceInfinity has stated, only certain pins are necessary, but the extra pin connections do not interfere with the initial setup. No serial cable manufacturing skills required.

3. Monoprice is a great source for RJ45-serial adapters - for making serial cables.


I have a feeling that most residential devices to be controlled will be using IP. How valid is that theory?


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## amirm

Thanks for the kind words guys!







Much appreciated.


On phoenix connectors I once found a guy on eBay that was selling them cheap. So you may want to look there if you need some.


Back to programming, even a simpler "hello world" is to have the relay click on its own. That way, you don't even need the touch panel. Just have it go on end off every 2 seconds and you should be able to hear it click away.


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## stefuel

The best way to get a handle on Simpl is to grab a used processor and wired touch panel and one device. Select a IR controlled device that is in the Crestron database to simplify things. Set your self a goal to just make that SOB turn on frm the TP. Once you figure that out, you'll be hooked and will find your self wanting to try harder and harder things just to see if it can be done. A couple of hundred spent on Ebay will give you all you need to practice at home. That's how I did it and I lost the bet. Don't ask.


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## Neurorad

The eBay guy has recently only offered 5 mm pitch TBs. Easyadapters guy was very helpful, and they appear to be a perfect fit.


Anyone know if all TPMC-8X units are Core 3 compatible? I think I saw documentation that they were on the upgrade path, but can't find the link again.


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## AceInfinity

Neurorad, I actually believe I have a TPMC-8 Wifi Touchpanel... I'll have to go check my boxes later. But take a look here: http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?jump=1&model=tpmc-8x 


Use the product search on the Crestron website, i've been reading through these PDF's they provide all day for a few days in a row almost, so it's molded into the back of my brain that this is some place to go when I need help; a good place to go.


What i've got so far, is my system designed in SIMPL Windows, and a GUI created for 2 pages in VTPro-e for my ST1700C. The join numbers are a bit confusing, not sure how to assign them, my box number on the actual on screen/page object only shows 0. Unless that's okay for my little experiment but i'm still trying to figure out how they work. Next i'll have to see how I exactly join things together, and how I assign events. I'm assuming I have to find modules somewhere in... SIMPL Windows? I'm guessing??... To do this for me? But if that's the case figuring out how to get that VTPro-e project into SIMPL Windows or at least reference my join numbers to assign events to these GUI objects.


Really I have more questions than answers for the stage i'm at, but I think that's a hint that I should be reading the manuals over again. I'm maybe 1/3 of the way in. Last step though and I know i'll be troubleshooting this probably, is finding out how to compile everything together.


EDIT: Nope! sorry, it's a TPMC-10 that I have, I knew I had a TPMC wifi touchpanel but I wasn't sure just by reading here, without seeing at least a picture to compare.


@Neurorad - READ THIS: http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?jump=1&model=CORE_3_UI 


The software page lists out the compatible devices.


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## amirm

The join numbers seem convoluted at first but they are not. You simply assign unique numbers to your UI elements. Then when you instantiate the module for that touchscreen in SIMPL WIndows, it will have a number of "press" pins that correspond to them. For example if you assign digital join number 20 to a button that says "Power ON," then the corresponding pin with the name "press20" in SIMPL Windows goes "high" when you press that button on the touch panel when the system is running.


Per my earlier note, I suggest first getting a program working independent of the touchscreen as otherwise there are a lot of things that have to fall in place for anything to work.


----------



## amirm

Just noticed that the demo page I linked to earlier has a touchscreen visible together with the press pins that I talked about.


----------



## AceInfinity

Alright, thanks for the information amirm







Join numbers are essentially numbers that correspond to specific actions or events then? And depending on what join numbers you assigned each element decide what each number and action/event are linked to? Simple enough concept.


----------



## Neurorad

I remember the story, stefuel. IIRC, you were pretty darn close, though.


The new TPs are really, really nice looking. I'd take those over an on-wall or docked iPad every time. Wife doesn't put anything back where it belongs...


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks, AceInfinity! That's the page I couldn't find.


What does the -GA designate, in the model TPMC-8X-GA?


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming#post_22317092
> 
> 
> Alright, thanks for the information amirm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Join numbers are essentially numbers that correspond to specific actions or events then? And depending on what join numbers you assigned each element decide what each number and action/event are linked to? Simple enough concept.


That's right. They are shared members of an object that happen to have numbers as names.


----------



## AceInfinity

@amirm - Alright, I just posted that mainly for clarification purposes







I'm planning on making a bit of progress on this over this weekend. I'll post what I can since I knew Neurorad is also interested in this.


----------



## stefuel

I'm telling you that I started just like you so forget about the multi page multi button thing for your first project. The hardest and most satisfying thing is making your first connection.

For that all you need is a $25.00 cnmsxpro and a ct-3500 wired tp. You can do that for under a hundred bucks. Then you can create a one page one button project and look for activity on the led's on the front of the pro for activity. If you can make the associated led blink on the front of the pro, you have created your first correct connection. Once you understand how to start a project in vt-pro, create the button, give it a join number and save it and then start a Simpl project that looks for that tp at the correct address with that join number, save, compile and up-load it, you will be on your way.

You just need to get that first baby step out of the way before you consider wireless, serial, IP osmosis whatever.


----------



## Neurorad

As AceInfinity has shown in a link, the TPMC-8X has been replaced with the TPMC-8X-GA. The TPMC-8X is not on the Core3 upgrade path.


I think I'll just invest in any old TP then, for testing.


Hard to find keyboard time, but time with the family is pretty good too.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22317863
> 
> 
> I'm telling you that I started just like you so forget about the multi page multi button thing for your first project. The hardest and most satisfying thing is making your first connection.
> 
> For that all you need is a $25.00 cnmsxpro and a ct-3500 wired tp. You can do that for under a hundred bucks. Then you can create a one page one button project and look for activity on the led's on the front of the pro for activity. If you can make the associated led blink on the front of the pro, you have created your first correct connection. Once you understand how to start a project in vt-pro, create the button, give it a join number and save it and then start a Simpl project that looks for that tp at the correct address with that join number, save, compile and up-load it, you will be on your way.
> 
> You just need to get that first baby step out of the way before you consider wireless, serial, IP osmosis whatever.



I am going simple







I just removed any extra pages, but I have my page with one button on it, if I can get the relays to go with that button that's good enough for me. I like a bit of a challenge, but I know I can figure this much out eventually. I've got the join numbers, just reading into what the next step is.


I have my project/system designed (pieced together) in SIMPL Windows, and for my specific touchpanel through VTPro-e i've now got one page with one button on it.


----------



## stefuel

Now you've already had more help then me when I started so now you get the challenge. I was given a month and I failed. You only get a week.

You have one week to make that relay close without additional help. Are you up to it???


----------



## AceInfinity

It's not about a challenge for me but rather the learning experience







I may not be able to do it, but eventually I will figure things out. I'm not backing out anytime soon, this stuff is of a personal interest for me. I like hearing from the experts around here instead of just guessing. Not to say that I'm just a guy that takes the easy way out, but I do learn from everything that's been posted in this thread thus far, and that's the greatest opportunity for me in my opinion.


I'll try for a week though, without trying to ask for a helping hand as much as possible, but I'm not so sure about that week time period with no help. I may not even be able to get it within a week with the assistance here, can never tell










But I've learned most of what I know today aside from Crestron on my own basically. Lots of resources out there, I was having trouble finding those resources with Crestron though aside from basic documentation.


My biggest obstacle here now, is trying to figure out how to piece things together, from my SIMPL Windows project, to my VTPro-e project for the GUI, to the events between these 2. And compiling, that must be done in Crestron Toolbox if I was to take a guess. Otherwise SIMPL Windows, then Crestron Toolbox or either SIMPL Windows to send to the devices the system file that I've created. Maybe the in-program help docs can help me out, I should try that.


----------



## Neurorad

Crestron's Toolbox video course is basically a tour of Toolbox.

http://www.crestron.com/training/crestron_technical_institute/online_training/courses.asp#course2


----------



## AceInfinity

That may be helpful, I forgot about all those videos. Easy learning


----------



## AceInfinity

Finally got my first system up and working













Updated the firmware through the MC2efor both the MC2e itself and the TPS-4000L via an indirect Cresnet connection through the MC2e. Got my 1 page VTPro project created using Photoshop for the button images, and gave each object/button join numbers for 11, 12, and 13. Made sure the Cresnet ID's were coinciding for both the VTPro project and the SIMPL Windows projects, compiled and uploaded via serial and cresnet through the control unit.


I'm fooling around with different button press sounds and background images and all that now. Big thanks to everyone that helped me get on my way, along with another member on this forum by the name of *ttt2k* who has also taken the liberty to help me understand a few things. He actually helped me understand a bit of the logic in terms of joins and modules in SIMPL Windows as well. Very helpful user.


----------



## Neurorad

That's good news, AceInfinity. I've got fw updated on my 2-series controller, but haven't bought a TP yet.


I'm wondering how much the programming environment will change with the release of the new Design sw. Got a look at it at CEDIA, but I don't have a good reference point.


The new in-wall TPs look amazing. Some discussion in the GUI Gallery and Holovision booths really opened my eyes to the realities of high-end programming.


----------



## AceInfinity

When you first see the result of matrix's over a series of screens, that's pretty cool as well. I was reviewing all the multimedia section that they had a week ago







I got my CSS-D as well during that time.


----------



## stefuel

So how did we do with the week challenge to get that one relay to close?

Did-ya do it or not??? Don't feel bad if you didn't. I failed on my 1st or 30th try with zero help. It kept me out of the bar rooms for a month so I saved a ton of money there.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22387021
> 
> 
> So how did we do with the week challenge to get that one relay to close?
> 
> Did-ya do it or not??? Don't feel bad if you didn't. I failed on my 1st or 30th try with zero help. It kept me out of the bar rooms for a month so I saved a ton of money there.



I didn't get it in a week, I failed on that front







I did spent and use up pretty much all of my free time on the weekends and after work though reading documentation and reviewing the crestron videos for the toolbox and whatnot on their site though. I ended up actually getting my CSS-D certification as well because I literally looked through their entire site by now, and I seen that this was available so I decided to get it while I was on their website (why not?).


I really enjoy how helpful and friendly the people are in this community though. Maybe I should have taken your challenge (even knowing that I would have failed lol). It would have been good for laughs at least










I'm happy I spent the time I did on this though. I learned quite a bit, and not only about SIMPL Windows, ToolBox, VTPro and the communication between a touchpanel and a processor through a SIMPL Windows/VTPro project by digital joins, but lots of other things as well; Shading solutions, and lots more about the hardware that I currently have by Crestron. I'm actually looking to invest some into getting myself one of their newer touchpanels, just for the purpose of learning and using some of their newer programs like Core3UI, and others.


I know the world of automation is starting to get into control, through things like apple devices (iPads, iPhones, etc...), so perhaps this is something I should be looking into as well, since I know lots of consumers will want this. I need to get into that game of things. Believe it or not, I now already have some background knowledge in Objective-C, so apps for the iDevices aren't too far of a stretch for myself.


Thanks guys

~Ace


----------



## AceInfinity

I'm now using that TPS-4000L to control my bedroom TV










I have an IR driver module for the TV that I have in SIMPL Windows from the Crestron DB that i'm using and assigning to the digital joins for each button in the VTPro project, and outputting IR hex codes directly to the TV from there.


TPS-4000L via Cresnet back to the MC2E and to the IR/Serial output, port A from A-D, which blasts IR to my TV for the control.


----------



## Neurorad

Wow, you're really taking off!


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22388117
> 
> 
> I'm now using that TPS-4000L to control my bedroom TV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an IR driver module for the TV that I have in SIMPL Windows from the Crestron DB that i'm using and assigning to the digital joins for each button in the VTPro project, and outputting IR hex codes directly to the TV from there.
> 
> TPS-4000L via Cresnet back to the MC2E and to the IR/Serial output, port A from A-D, which blasts IR to my TV for the control.



Double thumbs up. That's all it takes. The understanding of how to make just one thing work and you're off and running.

Now you have to start playing with various symbols to see what they can do for you and there's a ton of them.


----------



## amirm

Good to hear you jumped over the chasm







. From here on it gets easier but never easy








.


Crestron did show the new software at CEDIA. While they are not going nearly as far as they should, it is a very big step forward. The software is still early though and is not broadly available. I think the tentative schedule is end of the year.


----------



## Neurorad

I'm considering a Crestron TPS-3000, to be used with a 2-series controller, for learning programming. Any thoughts? Hardwired, Cresnet, no battery or RF issues to contend with. Many 'nicer' touchpanels available, but I just want it for testing.


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22389409
> 
> 
> I'm considering a Crestron TPS-3000, to be used with a 2-series controller, for learning programming. Any thoughts? Hardwired, Cresnet, no battery or RF issues to contend with. Many 'nicer' touchpanels available, but I just want it for testing.



If all you are interested in is something to practice programming with then sure but if you are or think you may eventually would like to try your hand at fancy graphics, a TP with more real estate and power would be nice.

I'm kinda partial to larger screens as I'm a old fart with failing eyes. I still can spot a hottie jogger at a hundred yards though I can only appriciate it from afar.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22388373
> 
> 
> Wow, you're really taking off!



Yes, i'm actually starting to understand this stuff now. I'm no pro, but I will get there one day, the learning curve doesn't all of a sudden end for me right here and now because i've created a couple systems lol. Still a novice on that front. Getting there step by step










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22389213
> 
> 
> Double thumbs up. That's all it takes. The understanding of how to make just one thing work and you're off and running.
> 
> Now you have to start playing with various symbols to see what they can do for you and there's a ton of them.



Thanks! For what you're saying here, and myself experiencing it, I agree. These programming concepts that I previously have are starting to make connections to each other even though SIMPL Windows in itself is so different looking than what i'm used to. I can understand how things work because of my background knowledge, and I think that's the reason for why i'm progressing the way I am. I was looking at SIMPL+ versions of code actually on the Crestron WikiSpace and it makes MUCH more sense to me now. That place I found from the Yahoo Group was incredibly helpful.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22389226
> 
> 
> Good to hear you jumped over the chasm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . From here on it gets easier but never easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Crestron did show the new software at CEDIA. While they are not going nearly as far as they should, it is a very big step forward. The software is still early though and is not broadly available. I think the tentative schedule is end of the year.



Yeah I seen some videos and reviews of CEDIA 2012... That Sony 4K is pretty awesome actually! I'm looking forward to seeing what Crestron comes out with next. They've been talking about a bunch of new software for various things apparently










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22389409
> 
> 
> I'm considering a Crestron TPS-3000, to be used with a 2-series controller, for learning programming. Any thoughts? Hardwired, Cresnet, no battery or RF issues to contend with. Many 'nicer' touchpanels available, but I just want it for testing.



I can't say I have an answer for you, but I know that the TPS-4000L touchpanel that i've been working with lacks the graphic quality that i'm looking into dealing with. If you take the 3000 and 4000 as version numbers, even if i'm wrong to assume that, I can't say that the 3000 will be much better. Although it does the job, and Cresnet is amazingly simple stupid to deal with, it will power up the Touchpanel from the control processor as you've got the Power and data all in those 4 wires running through it. It's what currently helps power up my TPS-4000L when i'm working with it for communication.


I would LOVE to have a nicer touchpanel, but since i'm still learning I think it's best for me personally to make due with what i've got.


For you though.. You don't have things to work with yet? Then you've got free reign to gain feedback from the pro's here, and take their word on things based on what YOU are looking for, for when you first start practicing with this stuff, which could be a good thing!










Good luck friend


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22390403
> 
> 
> If all you are interested in is something to practice programming with then sure but if you are or think you may eventually would like to try your hand at fancy graphics, a TP with more real estate and power would be nice.
> 
> I'm kinda partial to larger screens as I'm a old fart with failing eyes. I still can spot a hottie jogger at a hundred yards though I can only appriciate it from afar.



Hahaha!


That's one of the reasons why I like my TPS-4000L; large screen. Although my eyes aren't bad yet, it's just nice to work with, both when creating a GUI, you've got more space for objects to put on a single page, and even when in use, it's much easier to use than a smaller screen.


Just my personal preference though at this point. I don't have any hardware preferences yet because I haven't quite worked with this stuff too much yet. I can't be an advocate for which is better over something else per say, so I just don't go there. As for now, it's just the specs and the "wow" factor










~Ace


----------



## Neurorad

Quick Q. Are the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW interface modules required, for the TPS-4000 and TPS-3000? Or are they only needed for AV input and internet?


Looks like the touchpanel is powered via the 10-pin RJ45, from the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW, so I guess the interface module is required. And the Fancy Cable along with it.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22405146
> 
> 
> Quick Q. Are the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW interface modules required, for the TPS-4000 and TPS-3000? Or are they only needed for AV input and internet?
> 
> Looks like the touchpanel is powered via the 10-pin RJ45, from the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW, so I guess the interface module is required. And the Fancy Cable along with it.



Not really, the touchpanel can be powered via Cresnet because 24 and G are power, Y and Z are both data. I'm not even using any other ports, the only connection I have to my TPS-4000(L) is through Cresnet by phoenix connector. I don't have the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW, it's just my MC2E processor and the TPS-4000L. Connected by Cresnet. No interface module is required really (from what I know anyways).


Typically because 24 and G are power, red being hot would go to 24 and black would go to G. You'll notice with Cresnet wire that the Red and Black wires are a bit thicker than the white and blue. That's the reasoning behind this










But then, from there for my system that i've been working on, i've also got IR emitters on the Serial/IR output which is controlled by touchpanel actions.


Cresnet on the TPS-4000L back to the MC2E:


http://imgur.com/NZr8e.jpg%5B/IMG%5D



Cresnet on the MC2E back to the TPS-4000L:


http://imgur.com/1Whyk.jpg%5B/IMG%5D



Here's my VTPro GUI i've created utilizing Photoshop:


http://imgur.com/eZBhq.jpg%5B/IMG%5D


----------



## Neurorad

Unfortunately, the TPS-3000 and -5000 are a generation older than the TPS-4000L, and power comes into the TP on a 10-pin RJ11 connector that appears proprietary. It just adds to the cost of testing.


Nice job on the GUI!


Digging through manuals, it appears Crestron goes into great detail on the basic programming steps. I'm eager to get started.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22405921
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the TPS-3000 and -5000 are a generation older than the TPS-4000L, and power comes into the TP on a 10-pin RJ11 connector that appears proprietary. It just adds to the cost of testing.
> 
> Nice job on the GUI!
> 
> Digging through manuals, it appears Crestron goes into great detail on the basic programming steps. I'm eager to get started.



That's what I was reading for the longest time. Manuals, manuals, manuals for all of my equipment. Along with many other specs and all that for each program I knew i'd need along the way to create my own basic system at first. The only thing i'm seeing about my TPS-4000L is that the supported colors is affecting the gradients, and making them more like regional "rings" instead of a gradual gradient color change from one point to another. So for my GUIs that's one thing to mention here with this Touchpanel. I'm going to have to lessen the use of gradients here with large color differences.


I have 4 or 5 years in Photoshop and graphics design as well, so i'm well suited for most of this Crestron stuff so far lol. I absolutely love the way things have been working out for me though, I understand i'm fortunate for my past background knowledge, in both programming, graphics design, sound design, and other technical labor with installations. It covers pretty much everything here.


-Creating the GUI

-Sounds for the program

-Programming the system

-Installing it


That GUI was entirely created by myself in Photoshop, but without gradients things are limited to that fancy factor










I was actually working on something like this with orbs currently to see what this would look like but I haven't completed the design yet (the orbs I did in Photoshop):


http://imgur.com/nrG6l.png%5B/IMG%5D



I would also try to stay away from proprietary requirements. It makes things more expensive and harder to replace. The TPS-4000L I have was great for understanding the fundamentals of a system, and just in general for getting me started though. Although it's the only one i've actually worked with at this point, i'd recommend it for a multitude of reasons...


Next I want to test my ST-1700C (which was my first plan initially, but I moved to the TPS-4000L instead later on) to get started with RF communication. What i'm donig now though is trying to get a PCI card for my motherboard so that I have a few serial ports built into my computer however. I've been using a USB to Serial adapter up until now, but since it's not just a regular cable (it actually does conversions of the data) I find it less reliable, and it's probably slower on the data transfer for uploads.


~Ace


----------



## Neurorad

I like those orbs, though they may have to wait for a new TP if gradients are a problem.


I've been doing the opposite - no manuals, all yahoo group for the past year or so. The manuals make it sound so straightforward, but I know it will be a challenge.


I picked up an 8 port Edgeport USB to serial adapter for my rack PC a couple years ago. It's worked well so far. Cheap, used.


I've been using Photoshop for work the past 12 years, but almost all with black and white images. We'll see how the color goes.


----------



## AceInfinity

I wonder what a good choice would be for a touchpanel... Probably something which is in the Core3UI supported list i'd assume, but i'll have to look into that, and see how I can get a touchpanel ordered for myself through Crestron or get a good deal somehow through some company. I have a few choices here, it just depends on who wants or is willing to do me the favor. I could get one for free if they have enough personal faith in me to make something out of it once I get another one. But until then it's not rushed, i've got capable touchpanels for learning purposes at this point, and that's my priority focus










(Hopefully they'll have serial port PCI cards in stock for me soon, so I can continue learning. If not i'll get another cheapo USB to serial adapter for the time being.)


----------



## Neurorad

I think I paid $75 for my Edgeport/8 - looks like prices on eBay have skyrocketed!

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=230814345563&index=3&nav=SEARCH&nid=78366839819


----------



## AceInfinity

I found a 2 port one, but it was the wrong type of slot for a PCI, for ~$50 at a local store near me. Although there's really hardly a need to be using both at the same time, especially since they both share the same IRQ (interrupt request), to save computer resources. You only really upload to one device at a time anyways, and I don't have anything else that would require a COM Serial port. 8 ports would be overdoing it for me


----------



## stefuel

What's the big deal about the serial connection? Your processor has a LAN port. You can upload your programming and gui's over your LAN as long as the TP's are hard wired to the processor. I do it all the time using Viewport.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22407838
> 
> 
> What's the big deal about the serial connection? Your processor has a LAN port. You can upload your programming and gui's over your LAN as long as the TP's are hard wired to the processor. I do it all the time using Viewport.



Ahh! Thanks for that information, I had it in mind at one point in time, but must have neglected to retain it as important while I was learning because I had the Serial at the time lol. I guess I could try this next


----------



## Neurorad

TPS-5000L on its way to my house. I'm hoping the lack of an Ethernet card won't hurt me too much, for learning programming.


Don't have Crescat. I'll use 2 2-conductor cables, 18g for power, 22g twisted for control, both stranded.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22412746
> 
> 
> TPS-5000L on its way to my house. I'm hoping the lack of an Ethernet card won't hurt me too much, for learning programming.
> 
> Don't have Crescat. I'll use 2 2-conductor cables, 18g for power, 22g twisted for control, both stranded.



Seems like it would do, they are 18 and 22 from what I can remember. the 18g wires for data/control are actually shielded as well as a twisted pair. Could be because power runs through the same cable? In my opinion though if you have 2 separate cables, then it really won't make much difference because you're separating the power and control by doing that anyways. Other than that, the specs are pretty much the exact same for Cresnet as far as I can tell.


Let me know how you do. This thread is a nice place to visit for little bits of information every once in a while. I just read the Yahoo group stuff, haven't yet posted in that category for discussion. Maybe if I have a question that requires a larger range of opinions from other Crestron enthusiasts out there, but until then, this forum has been great! I've bookmarked this forum a long time ago and haven't had any regret on doing that lol.


Good luck


----------



## Neurorad

I've done a tremendous of reading, but I don't recall the use of the Cresnet shield drain wire. Is it usually connected to the controller chassis ground? I don't think the shield will serve much purpose without that connection, but I don't recall reading anything about that connection. Is the connection doubled with the Cresnet control pair ground? I wouldn't think that would be a good solution, as a foil shield is usually connected at 1 end only.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22414233
> 
> 
> I've done a tremendous of reading, but I don't recall the use of the Cresnet shield drain wire. Is it usually connected to the controller chassis ground? I don't think the shield will serve much purpose without that connection, but I don't recall reading anything about that connection. Is the connection doubled with the Cresnet control pair ground? I wouldn't think that would be a good solution, as a foil shield is usually connected at 1 end only.



We're not even using that ground wire in the building we're doing all these installs... You would actually pair it up with the power though and have it go to somewhere where it can be grounded. Double it up inside the phoenix connector. We did something similar actually at the DMC-T course training. What do you mean about that shield not serving much purpose though? How come?


What's sent through the Y and Z is data, although i'm assuming it's for interference protection because of the fact that power runs right beside it inside the cresnet coat... Could be wrong though, but I know this is taken into consideration when running video, and probably other things too.


EDIT: If you're interested I could probably show you a picture if I could find that Cresnet cable we made at the DMC-T training. I'm pretty sure we were using ground there with the larger black phoenix connections. When you're only running low voltages though, it isn't quite as critical I would think, however for good practice i'm sure it should be implemented.


----------



## Neurorad

I'm under the impression that a shield is only useful if it's grounded, but I really don't know. I also think the shield is to protect from nearby AC, and not the adjacent DC power.


If the connector was grounded, e.g. for STP, the instructions are quite explicit. I'm just not sure of the proper use of a Cresnet drain wire.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22414421
> 
> 
> I'm under the impression that a shield is only useful if it's grounded, but I really don't know. I also think the shield is to protect from nearby AC, and not the adjacent DC power.
> 
> If the connector was grounded, e.g. for STP, the instructions are quite explicit. I'm just not sure of the proper use of a Cresnet drain wire.



AC over DC yes, because alternating is more likely to interfere, but current is also going in the opposite direction from which the data is being sent back to the controller, so i'm not sure in that case. I don't have much information on how they got the specs for Cresnet either. But what I imagine, power sent through Cresnet is to allow powering up a device, in which in turn, sends data back through Y and Z to the controller for it to do something on anything on the OUT, whether that's IR or Serial out, etc...


Although the purpose of shielded cable basically keeps all the electrons in the flow within that shield so that nearby equipment and all that isn't affected if in the case something does happen with electrical shock. This is I believe, usually the reason why a shielded bundle of wires comes with a ground inside, because if you're grounding for any purpose, you'll have to dispose of all that electricity someplace, and to keep it on a good path and not have it affect anything else nearby, that's what that shield does. And you'll see Cat6 and Cresnet included where the ground wire is just stranded wire with no coating if it's shielded.


My father was a Test engineer that did all the electrical work at Nortel when it was at it's high point. He would probably be able to give more answers to me about all this stuff if I was curious enough to ask. I'm not an electrician, just an AV guy







But i'll learn all this stuff eventually. It's good to know, and just because i'm not an electrician doesn't mean I may not need this kind of information.


~Ace


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks, Ace. I've done some reading, and shield definitely reduces DC transmissions into and from the conductors.


And, grounding the shield is much better than ungrounded.


I think I'll eventually invest in some Cresnet, but I'll make do with what I have on the test bench. I have a feeling that the majority of my devices will eventually be on a LAN, and not connected with Cresnet, anyway.


I cannot find the specification for the number of twists, for the 22g control pair. I don't think that will be an issue for testing, so I'll shelve that discussion.


I'll leave shield ungrounded for now.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22414892
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ace. I've done some reading, and shield definitely reduces DC transmissions into and from the conductors.
> 
> And, grounding the shield is much better than ungrounded.
> 
> I think I'll eventually invest in some Cresnet, but I'll make do with what I have on the test bench. I have a feeling that the majority of my devices will eventually be on a LAN, and not connected with Cresnet, anyway.
> 
> I cannot find the specification for the number of twists, for the 22g control pair. I don't think that will be an issue for testing, so I'll shelve that discussion.
> 
> I'll leave shield ungrounded for now.



If it works it works







What i'm using is not Cresnet specifically, but I did start with the Cresnet wire that came with the devices initially. Then later on, because they only give you a ridiculously small length, I swapped my Crestron Cresnet out with some other cable which is being used in place of Cresnet where I currently work, and it works.


As for good practice I would've thought so as well, gounding better than ungrounded haha. Good practice too, even if you think it's not needed as i've said. I think it would be more beneficial to go LAN though. I have a faint suspicion that this is the way our future is headed in AV anyways. All IP and wireless communications. Now that integration with your iPhone or your iPad, ect... Is now possible. It's a popular trend, and for that reason, things will sway that way in my opinion.


~Ace


----------



## Neurorad

I'll try 18/2 plus 2 conductors of 22/4. Doubt the twists in the security cable are sufficient to match the specs of Cresnet, but it won't be an issue on the test bench.


Yeah, seems all new devices are networked on a LAN.


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> and shield definitely reduces DC transmissions into and from the conductors.



DC does not transmit nor interfere with anything. I't sDC, it's static, it cannot radiate.

The electrostatic shield surrounding the wires is transparent to electropmagnetic interference. The data transmitted on a the cable is balanced/differential, noise will be cancelled out by the receiver.


> Quote:
> AC over DC yes, because alternating is more likely to interfere, but current is also going in the opposite direction from which the data is being sent back to the controller, so i'm not sure in that case.



The data is RS485...bidirectional.

Supply current travels in both directions, to and from the load. It's DC though, so no interference is possible.


----------



## Neurorad

Thank you, Sam.


Static DC - not rectified, constant.


I read somewhere that DC can cause EMI. Maybe with rectified DC? Changing amplitudes -> changing field?


I've dug through a lot of RS485 literature, off an on, the past few years. Doesn't the amplitude of the voltage change - the basis for signalling?


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22422816
> 
> 
> The data is RS485...bidirectional.
> 
> Supply current travels in both directions, to and from the load. It's DC though, so no interference is possible.



Ahh, but i've heard it is only based on RS485, and not that it is actually RS485? It runs at a non-standard rate which S-to-E adapters probably would not support. Also multidrop, thus its functionality isn't supported by those adapters.


----------



## AceInfinity

Is the CrestronLabs forums still open (edit: Removed link just in case I shouldn't be posting a link to an external forum here)


Or Active? I've been registered for more than a week or two now, but no activation in order to see any of the forums. Does anybody still go there, or am I wasting time waiting because it's a dead forum?










I found it through the Yahoo Crestron group, and seen about how they activate members, but I still haven't been activated yet...


Also, I got myself a PCI-Express card with 2 serial/RS-232 ports, and a parallel port extension that came with it. Now I can see if I can set my MC2E up over LAN, but in the meantime I can still upload via the way I know how. It seems MUCH faster than Serial to USB conversions though through the previous adapter I had.


----------



## Neurorad

I'd call Crestron Tech Support to inquire further, if you feel that it will help you. From my understanding, it's for beta software discussions, for advanced programmers.


----------



## AceInfinity

Beta "software"? for Crestron programming in itself? That IS my thing lol. If it's programming directly related to the software used when programming with Crestron, then that's what I mainly do. Software development.







I'm used to the whole:
Code:


Code:


[CODE]if (something(x, 10))
{
        //do this
}

[/CODE]


Syntax instead of the the logic blocks in SIMPL Windows. I'm actually curious to see when they start coming out with more programming libraries for Crestron programming. I've heard rumor about C#.










Back on topic though, I have contacted them twice now, but no response back and i'm still not activated


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> I read somewhere that DC can cause EMI. Maybe with rectified DC?



Rectified DC is still DC, rectified AC is also DC.


The cresnet cable consists of 2 DC power conductors and a balanced data cable.(RS485)

The DC cannot interfere with the Data because it is DC.

The Data signal could be induced into the DC conductors, but will be removed by any capacitance in the circuit, with there will be plenty of ,in the power supply.


----------



## AceInfinity

Good information SAM64







I'll keep this in mind. I don't know why then, but I've been told to separate DC from power by others lol. I guess I can stand up against that now and tell them why it doesn't matter










Others however, have also told me that since it's DC it doesn't matter, but playing the safe game I took that into consideration anyways and tried to keep the power and data separate. I know with AC it matters, unless rectified AC as you say...


----------



## SAM64

How can you separate DC form data in a cresnet cable?

Same with POE. It's DC it cannot cause any interference.

This is basic electronics.


----------



## Neurorad

OK, Sam, thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated.


I love learning about electronics. In another life, I'd be a EE.


Many Cresnet control cable alternatives, from most cable manufacturers.


West Penn 357

Belden 1502r

Belden 5302GE

Belden 9155


For a few feet, I don't think the shield or twists are important, though. The shield is to prevent EMI to the control pair.


But to be thorough - what would the drain wire connect to, for the shielded pair? Controller 6-32 screw chassis ground? It's very close to the Cresnet adapter.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22429329
> 
> 
> How can you separate DC form data in a cresnet cable?
> 
> Same with POE. It's DC it cannot cause any interference.
> 
> This is basic electronics.



How to separate DC power? By not making a DC power line side by side with Cresnet itself? (or any other data line for that matter)







But separating DC from "Cresnet"??? I didn't make a reference to Cresnet in my post, you assumed that. I understand what Cresnet is--If you read my previous posts in this thread, you'll see that I mention Cresnet being Red/Black Power, and the other 2 wires are data. Why would I try to think of splitting the coating on Cresnet to separate them?


That's what i'm trying to say here though... You don't have to try to belittle me just because you aren't understanding what i'm trying to explain. There's external (DC) power supplies we are using alongside cresnet and Cat6 for video feeds. They want us to separate that external DC power cable from all others (and what i'm also trying to say is that this is what I don't understand; what they are trying to get us to do by separating DC power from the data)... I'm not talking about Cresnet here. If you read closely I did not mention "Cresnet" even once in that post here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22428762 


Just some ounce of respect and more tact in your replies is all I ask for. Your posts seem a bit hostile that's all.


> Quote:
> This is basic electronics.



You've mentioned that DC can't cause interference, but here:


> Quote:
> How can you separate DC form data in a cresnet cable?



?


Overall misunderstanding i'm sure, so i'll let it pass. Although it seems it wouldn't be the first incidence where your apprent aim instead of helping is to target one others intelligence where you see fit:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429770/upgraded-to-latest-metallic-hdmi-connectors-noticed-improved-picture-and-sound 
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1414167/new-to-commercial-audio 


And all i'm trying to do here is learn, and to do so, keeping an open mind is least foolish. You didn't wake up and gain every last bit of knowledge you have today, so provide some patience with others trying to get there as well.


Cheers,

~Ace


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22426710
> 
> 
> Is the CrestronLabs forums still open (edit: Removed link just in case I shouldn't be posting a link to an external forum here)
> 
> Or Active? I've been registered for more than a week or two now, but no activation in order to see any of the forums. Does anybody still go there, or am I wasting time waiting because it's a dead forum?


I had to escalate to get my registration to go through. Like yours, it sat there.


The forum itself is not too active but what is there is direct answers from Crestron people.


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22429329
> 
> 
> How can you separate DC form data in a cresnet cable?
> 
> Same with POE.


Crestnet has separate wire for DC like some versions of POE, but not all. It is not phantom power if that is what you are thinking. So you can do what he is doing in using separate power cable and data although I would not do so for customer systems (Crestron will likely not support you if you don't use their combo cable).


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22431908
> 
> 
> I had to escalate to get my registration to go through. Like yours, it sat there.
> 
> The forum itself is not too active but what is there is direct answers from Crestron people.



Yeah, I finally got in, funny thing - I was awarded the 7 day registration achievement before I even got activated to realize that I had it haha










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22431931
> 
> 
> Crestnet has separate wire for DC like some versions of POE, but not all. It is not phantom power if that is what you are thinking. So you can do what he is doing in using separate power cable and data although I would not do so for customer systems (Crestron will likely not support you if you don't use their combo cable).



True, and I know we don't, perhaps for no other reason other than cost reduction? But it's essentially the same kind of wire. No visible differences other than the coating is black instead of green/yellow. Shielded twisted pair for data 22 gauge, and 18 gauge for the power. I have a length of that thick blue Crestron cable here at home from the DMC-T training still, and that's what i've just been using for all my tests, other than a small bit of the extra stuff we're using as a substitute for Cresnet cable that I brought back to use, because the smaller test samples they gave out in those packages that come with Crestron devices were a bit too short for me to do much with.


----------



## Neurorad

My touchpanel 'arrived' yesterday, but nobody home to sign for it. :/


Hopefully UPS will be able to get a signature today.


It's stated very clearly in multiple Crestron manuals: 'Use Crestron certified cables.'


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22432633
> 
> 
> My touchpanel 'arrived' yesterday, but nobody home to sign for it. :/
> 
> Hopefully UPS will be able to get a signature today.
> 
> It's stated very clearly in multiple Crestron manuals: 'Use Crestron certified cables.'



They would love for you to buy and use their cables yes







Whether there's reason for it which is justifiable 'enough' or not? They will justify that. Of course there are differing opinions out there i'm sure, I for one haven't dealt enough with Crestron to see where it's crucial to use their wire. I did witness a small issue though with not using their DVI cables for projector inputs in a board room though not too long ago, but it was probably a length issue between the differing manufacturers. Crestron's were a tad shorter in length from the other's in use apparently.


I suppose if you're playing it safe, Crestron cable were built to spec based on their own equipment, so it should be most fitting logically; (ideally/hopefully anyways).


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> The shield is to prevent EMI to the control pair.



The shield is transparent to electromagnetic interference. The differential receiver cancels out common mode noise on the data lines.



> Quote:
> I've been told to separate DC from power by others





> Quote:
> How to separate DC power? By not making a DC power line side by side with Cresnet itself?



Why does crestron specify a cable with DC and data side by side, if it's bnecessary, according to you, to seperate DC and data?


> Quote:
> Overall misunderstanding i'm sure,



yes, on your part.


> Quote:
> Crestnet has separate wire for DC like some versions of POE,



yes, I'm aware of this.

There seems to be great concern here about 'interference' form DC....how is that possible?


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/60#post_22435680
> 
> 
> The shield is transparent to electromagnetic interference.



In my limited understanding of shielded cables, I'm under the impression that the control pair shield helps reduce EMI that can be caused by AC power cables. If not this, then what is the purpose?


----------



## markrubin

back on topic please


posts deleted


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> I'm under the impression that the control pair shield helps reduce EMI that can be caused by AC power cables.



the differential receiver cancels common mode induced noise.


----------



## Neurorad

Differential receiver...you mean utilizing the twisted pair? I don't think differential signaling relies on a ground reference - that's the advantage over single ended signaling.


Oh, you're saying that the shield doesn't protect from induced noise, that's the job of the twisted pair and differential receiver?


So, then what's the purpose of the shield, for the Cresnet control pair?


----------



## SAM64

The shield is electrostatic, like a Faraday cage.


The twisted pair ensures that induced electromagnetic interference couples to both conductors equally, for effective cancellation at the differential receiver.


Differential signalling doesn't require a ground reference.

A telephone line has no shield or ground reference for the AC (audio) signal.


----------



## Neurorad

And the Faraday cage is used to reduce EMI.


Thanks for the help, Sam.


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> And the Faraday cage is used to reduce EMI.



No, electrostatic interference.


----------



## Neurorad

Found a good reference that explains electrostatic and EMI. Chapters 2 and 3, from a recording studio design site.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~tabbler/GndRule/GndM02.html 


The foil shield is to reduce electrostatic interference, and the pair twists are to reduce EMI.


Now I think I've got it, with the explanation.


----------



## stefuel

Sounds like youze guys are still up in the air about what to use for your own cresnet, so I'll tell you of my experimentation.

My whole house was wired with cat5e before I decided to get involved in a Crestron system. I have tried this both ways and have had no problems either way. I have used a twisted pair for each conductor (all four) and I have used a twisted pair for +, one pair for - and one pair for signal, leaving one pair for a spare. My system has been in for years now with no problems.


"So, then what's the purpose of the shield, for the Cresnet control pair?"


Just because the DC in the cresnet doesn't cause EMI, doesn't mean you didn't pull the wire in close to a AC motor feed or something.

That said, I have some of that cat5e I spoke of earlier pulled through the same chase as a 50 amp feed for my pilot arc plasma cutter and AC/DC TIG welder. My wife has not complained of any TP problems associated with that pull when I'm out working in my shop.


----------



## Neurorad

I bought a TP for learning programming. I honestly don't plan on installing it, but who knows what I'll eventually end up doing.


On the test bench, I'll use 18/2 x 2. For the 2 feet, twists (and probably shield) won't make a difference.


My only obstacle is free time.


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> Just because the DC in the cresnet doesn't cause EMI, doesn't mean you didn't pull the wire in close to a AC motor feed or something.



Google "differential signalling" for the answer , it's like you're not even reading this thread.


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/90#post_22473842
> 
> 
> Google "differential signalling" for the answer , it's like you're not even reading this thread.


Would be also good to google common mode rejection ratio (CMRR) while you are at it to realize balanced interconnect doesn't mean you are immune to noise







. There is a reason shielded twisted pair cable also exists.


----------



## Neurorad

He's goading you, Ace.


Thank you, Amir. I've spent enough time reading about the esoterics of RS485 design, common mode noise rejection, foil shielding, and electrostatic interference. It's interesting, but not too relevant for practical purposes.


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> There is a reason shielded twisted pair cable also exists.



Tell us about it then


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/90#post_22476442
> 
> 
> Tell us about it then


I am not going to do that. The guys are trying to learn about programming Crestron. It has nothing to do with arguing about shield vs not when they are just building a test fixture. Let them be please.


----------



## stefuel

It's true that I have not kept up with this thread from start to now but if you read all of page one including the title of this thread you will see that this is a learning programming thread not how wire design works on paper. I have a friend who claimes to be able to tell the difference in sound with his speaker wires elevated off the floor. One of these days I'm going to challange that with blind side test, a switch and a roll of 12-2 romex.


Now if we are still talking about hooking up a test system on the bench, you could straighten out four coat hangers for your Cresnet and it will work just fine as long as they are not touching.


----------



## Hyltz

Hi all,


Firstly thanks for sharing your experience and advice.


I also am interested in a career change and am wanting to get into the home automation\control programming line.


I have done a few systems successfully over the past 5 months with Axium and Elan products.


I realize that Crestron is the industry leader in this regard and would like to get up to speed. I am aware of the steps to begin.


1. Subscribe to the Crestron yahoo group.

2. Sign up for training.

3. View the intro videos on the Crestron site.

4. Download the programming software.

5. Look through the demo programs.

6. Skip anything that says System Builder/SB.

7. Get your hands on an MC3 controller.

8. Play with it.

9. Attend training.


Before i dive head first and get this ball rolling i would like some advise please. We have a few Crestron products @ the shop and was wondering if they would be a good place to start.

http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?jump=1&model=st-1700c 

http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?jump=1&model=cnx-pad8a 

http://www.crestron.com/resources/product_and_programming_resources/catalogs_and_brochures/online_catalog/default.asp?jump=1&model=cnmsx-pro 


Any advice in this regard would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Neurorad

Most importantly, you'll need access to Crestron software. Crestron equipment cannot be programmed without the sw.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AceInfinity*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/30#post_22405201
> 
> 
> Not really, the touchpanel can be powered via Cresnet because 24 and G are power, Y and Z are both data. I'm not even using any other ports, the only connection I have to my TPS-4000(L) is through Cresnet by phoenix connector. I don't have the TPS-IMPC or TPS-IMW, it's just my MC2E processor and the TPS-4000L. Connected by Cresnet. No interface module is required really (from what I know anyways).
> 
> Typically because 24 and G are power, red being hot would go to 24 and black would go to G. You'll notice with Cresnet wire that the Red and Black wires are a bit thicker than the white and blue. That's the reasoning behind this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then, from there for my system that i've been working on, i've also got IR emitters on the Serial/IR output which is controlled by touchpanel actions.
> 
> Cresnet on the TPS-4000L back to the MC2E:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/NZr8e.jpg%5B/IMG%5D




What's with the terminal blocks for composite and Svideo? We have standard industry connectors for these - Svideo standard 4pin miniDIN and RCA or BNC for composite.


----------



## jdanforth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Glimmie*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/90#post_22620758
> 
> 
> What's with the terminal blocks for composite and Svideo? We have standard industry connectors for these - Svideo standard 4pin miniDIN and RCA or BNC for composite.



Y/C (S) was often run as two-wire for the best quality over distance. On larger equipment it was common to have two BNCs for Y and C (S-Video) plus a BNC for CVBS (Composite). I imagine that they did this to save space. Plus it's a lot easier to terminate using screw terminals than field-terminating a bunch of BNCs.


----------



## SAM64




> Quote:
> Y/C (S) was often run as two-wire for the best quality over distance.



If it was for 'best quality' they would have used BNC's and 75 Ohm coax.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SAM64*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/90#post_22635987
> 
> 
> If it was for 'best quality' they would have used BNC's and 75 Ohm coax.



Agreed, that's my point.


----------



## AceInfinity

Bringing this thread back to life to ask the knowledgeable members that contributed in this thread when I first started it. I have a question about relay triggering, as simple as it should be...


Right now, I've figured out a lot of things for my system, on a basic level. I've figured out how to poll the projector for information and update the UI on my touchpanel to give some meaningful user feedback. I'm curious about perhaps a couple things now, hints or anything at all is appreciated.


For my screen control, it's closed contact, I've got the screen going up and down by relay outputs, projector control via serial, and I've got my wallplate control for the screen paired with the screen motor as well. The wallplate works with Up, Down, and Stop. My touchpanel can only control up or down, and I can't tell it to stop, regardless about my relay timings, because in order to physically stop the screen I would need to trigger 2 output relays at once. I've tried a few guesses within Simple Windows to try and do this, but it appears the second relay will only trigger after the first one goes back into position; they don't open/close at the same time.


Is this a limitation of the MC2e controller I am using, or am I just not doing this right within programming?


@Glimmie - I didn't design the control interface for the touchpanel I have, and in fact, it's actually a discontinued product... I would agree though. I got it for free, the only downside is it's outdated style and low resolution (~640x480) for my current application.







I'd love to get into some UI where I can actually use Core3UI for my own home system though eventually.


I'm playing around with lots of equipment as it is. I've automated some DMX-512 based lighting just recently for my pool system.


----------



## weddellkw

The relays should operate independently. Are they being triggered in programming via the outputs of a Toggle or Set/Reset Latch (only one output high at a time?)



You should be able to take the signal from a button press and pass it through a buffer to the trigger signal for both of the relays.


 



If the relay triggers are attached to the output of a toggle, s/r latch, etc you'll need to buffer those outputs as well to avoid compiler warnings.


----------



## AceInfinity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *weddellkw*  /t/1424101/crestron-systems-programming/90#post_24478497
> 
> 
> The relays should operate independently. Are they being triggered in programming via the outputs of a Toggle or Set/Reset Latch (only one output high at a time?)
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to take the signal from a button press and pass it through a buffer to the trigger signal for both of the relays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the relay triggers are attached to the output of a toggle, s/r latch, etc you'll need to buffer those outputs as well to avoid compiler warnings.



Hmm, I'll go and try the advice I've been given and see how she goes, thanks for the guidance.










EDIT: It worked. I got it working putting them through a buffer. Great!


----------



## AceInfinity

Alright, I'm having an issue with SIMPL Windows programming that seems fundamentally simple but I can't do it without having multiple driving source errors.

Without the ability to have mechanical limits on a screen, I need to be able to lower a motorized screen over X number of seconds and then STOP it by triggering 2 relays momentarily. I'm attempting to start this little *macro* from a "Projector On" feedback digital signal output from a module to control a projector over RS-232. I want to raise the screen all the way on the "Projector Off" feedback digital signal, and also have the ability for the user to Raise, Lower, and Stop the screen from touchpanel buttons, but I need the "Down" button to be timed as well. To avoid them from hitting it a second time so that it goes for another X seconds lowering past the point that I want it to lower to, as a limit, I'm thinking about using an Interlock.

I started with an interlock for Up, Down, and Stop. I feed the output from Stop to a Buffer which will set both Relays to HIGH, but anytime I do anything else, it complains about multiple driving sources for up and/or down...


----------



## cabledawg

Im a Crestron DIYer so may not help but you could use magnetic contacts or a limit switch. As for programming it in SIMPL, couldn't you use timer logic?​


----------

