# Denon’s New 8K AVRs Will Take Your Home Theater to the Next Level



## dmspen_3495

But will they stream Spotify from Alexa? It doesn't work now!


----------



## Mike Lang

I used to upgrade every 3-4 years but am still rocking an X4200.


----------



## Erik Wesley

I currently have the 3700H. Has been rock solid so far!


----------



## apelbaum

I will wait till next year and the new 6800 to upgrade my beloved 6500


----------



## ToddDavid

Would rather have my 6700 at the same price as the 4800.


----------



## hockeynut

I just need the *AVR-S570BT* for my small room. Seems like a good price for a new receiver with 4 8K inputs.


----------



## anjunadeep

Biggest letdown about this release is Dirac is available via a firmware update next year. If it would be capable of using Dirac out of the box, I'd be much more interested. Denon tends to have good follow through but, I'm kind of done with Audyssey if I can help it.


----------



## Sean Spamilton

Those prices seem... high


----------



## wseroyer

Prices are ridiculous I paid $1400 for my 4700, really regretting not getting a 6700 when prices where the same as 4800.


----------



## ToddDavid

$1200 for a 7.2 is NUTS. 🫣🥴🫢


----------



## ToddDavid

wseroyer said:


> Prices are ridiculous I paid $1400 for my 4700, really regretting not getting a 6700 when prices where the same as 4800.


A4Less has 6700 in stock for $2300 w/ 3 yr warrant.


----------



## wseroyer

ToddDavid said:


> A4Less has 6700 in stock for $2300 w/ 3 yr warrant.


unfortunately I'm not in the position to buy a AVR right now. I'm getting marred this year and the wedding is sucking up all of my disposable income.


----------



## ToddDavid

wseroyer said:


> unfortunately I'm not in the position to buy a AVR right now. I'm getting marred this year and the wedding is sucking up all of my disposable income.


Marred is a good way to spell it. 😏


----------



## Molon_Labe

I was an early adopter for many years, but those days are now over. Tech has gone far enough for me, and I see no need for resolution beyond 4k especially considering at normal viewing distances its irrlevalnt. To be honest, I just upgraded my 1080p projector and its the better blacks and lumens that I notice, not the resolution.

I also don't need anymore speakers beyond 11 and if truth be told that is overkill for most studio mixes since Atmos isn't being utilized to its full potential after all these years. I wish vendors would fix the features they currently advertise that are still broken vs trying to entice people to buy the "next round" of broken high tech bells and whistles - Yes JBL Synthesis I am talking to you. Maybe its age, but the days of chasing the next pot of sound and video nirvana under the proverbial home theater rainbow are over.

I am glad to see them moving to Dirac Live. I left Denon/Marantz because of Audyssey after being a loyal owner for decades.


----------



## warpdrive

Do the entry models like 570 use Audyssey or is it some basic Denon made Room EQ


----------



## DGD123

"With a future software update, " past experience warns me that it probably won't go so well.... I agree to wait for the model that includes the technology and has been somewhat proven.


----------



## loader963

What’s a good 3800 vs 4800 differences shortlist I can find?


----------



## Erik Wesley

If you go to Crutchfield, you can compare up to 4 at a time.








Denon Home Theater Receivers at Crutchfield


Shopping for Denon Home Theater Receivers? Our Virginia-based experts love helping folks find the right gear. Get FREE 2-day shipping and free lifetime tech support with your order.




www.crutchfield.com


----------



## NOAMattD

Hopefully thermal performance improves from last gens...i have a tight cabinet and a smaller room


----------



## Mashie Saldana

Nice, the AVR-A1H is the first single box solution for 9.x.6 without the need for external amplification.


----------



## bryantc

A1H is in my future but I'm in no rush. I'll wait for the Dirac update and the initial bugs to be worked out.

Thank God they finally dumped all those useless analog video ports and gave us something useful.


----------



## cricket9998

Massively overpriced. This is just insulting to consumers lmao. Please guys, don’t buy this until they lower the price. Inflation is entirely made up by companies blaming it so they can just raise prices. How? Well what an amazing coincidence that most companies keep posting record profits despite “inflation”.


----------



## MagnumX

I can't be bothered to search further with these poor announcements. I see 9.4 and 15.4 and nothing in-between. I'll assume from past poor advertising in regards to amplifiers versus processing that many of those have actual 11.4 processing capability, but what about 13.4? 

I don't really get why they go with powered channel advertising when amps are cheap. The most important thing on earth when it comes to Atmos receivers is total channels supported and it seems you have to waste your time to find out. Or is that the article writer's fault here at AVS?


----------



## ToddDavid

Mashie Saldana said:


> Nice, the AVR-A1H is the first single box solution for 9.x.6 without the need for external amplification.


Well... for $6500. You can do all separates for that price, with a full slate of Hypex amps or whatnot and get amplification quality that actually matches the processing quality of the Denon AVR. I mean, what’s the point of spending all this money on a fantastic performing processor if you’re just gonna power it all with an average quality amp? 

Hell, with the help of a few y-splitters I’m running a fully separate 9.1.13 with my Denon 6700 in preamp mode w/ an 8 channel Hypex 252, 2 channel Hypex 502, and two 6-channel Rotel 1506‘s for the heights for less than the cost of one Denon A1H.


----------



## MagnumX

What does 9.1.13 look like? Is that 10 Atmos + Surround Height + CH or TS or just a bunch of arrays?


----------



## tguzz

By now all receivers should be presented with all channels driven specs. With the A-1, I wouldn’t be surprised if it drops to 60-70 watts rms. I wonder if the amps are bridgeable?…


----------



## ToddDavid

MagnumX said:


> What does 9.1.13 look like? Is that 10 Atmos + Surround Height + CH + TS or just a bunch of arrays?


Firstly I use the Auro/DTSX layout with Center Height & Top Middle. It provides the best bubble. I always keep the surround setting on DTSX. Then the speaker layout is:

2 Side Surrounds on each side, spaced equidistant to my horizontal plane so that they sound like 1 speaker but present a larger scale and fill in the sound bubble better. Plus it’s now 2 woofers instead of 1. This also helps tie the fronts to the sides better as well. 
doubled-up Front Heights, with each pair split equidistant to my ears and with each placed the same distance to my ears. So now I have 5 front heights, which makes for an awesome wall of sound from the front. 
doubled-up Side Heights, each above the corresponding side surrounds.
Quadrupled the Top Middle into the shape of a Diamond for a true top layer. Rain, wind, music, other ambient sounds, planes flying overhead, etc shouldn’t sound like they’re originating from a pinpoint location. This really fills in the sound bubble, provides a greater sense of scale & dynamics, plus ties the top middle to the side heights and front/center heights much better. 
I would do the same with my mains_ [I’ve successfully done it before] _but my room isn’t wide enough to accommodate it. Personally I‘d rather double up the mains than use front wides, as it allows the speakers in the front wide position _[which are purely meant to fill in the bubble]_ to be more active rather than sporadic sounds.

I run the 6700 in preamp mode, and the 6700 can handle the voltage demands, so it doesn’t get hot or introduce unwanted distortion.


----------



## nbvgtriuy

I was an early adopter for a long time, however those days are presently finished. Tech has gone far enough for me, and I see no requirement for goal past 4k particularly considering at typical survey separates its irrlevalnt. Frankly, I just redesigned my 1080p projector and its the better blacks and lumens that I notice, not the goal.


----------



## MagnumX

ToddDavid said:


> Firstly I use the Auro/DTSX layout with Center Height & Top Middle. It provides the best bubble. I always keep the surround setting on DTSX. Then the speaker layout is:
> 
> 2 Side Surrounds on each side, spaced equidistant to my horizontal plane so that they sound like 1 speaker but present a larger scale and fill in the sound bubble better. Plus it’s now 2 woofers instead of 1. This also helps tie the fronts to the sides better as well.
> doubled-up Front Heights, with each pair split equidistant to my ears and with each placed the same distance to my ears. So now I have 5 front heights, which makes for an awesome wall of sound from the front.
> doubled-up Side Heights, each above the corresponding side surrounds.
> Quadrupled the Top Middle into the shape of a Diamond for a true top layer. Rain, wind, music, other ambient sounds, planes flying overhead, etc shouldn’t sound like they’re originating from a pinpoint location. This really fills in the sound bubble, provides a greater sense of scale & dynamics, plus ties the top middle to the side heights and front/center heights much better.
> I would do the same with my mains_ [I’ve successfully done it before] _but my room isn’t wide enough to accommodate it. Personally I‘d rather double up the mains than use front wides, as it allows the speakers in the front wide position _[which are purely meant to fill in the bubble]_ to be more active rather than sporadic sounds.
> 
> I run the 6700 in preamp mode, and the 6700 can handle the voltage demands, so it doesn’t get hot or introduce unwanted distortion.


I use an active mixer for Mains+Sides at the front wide position which increases both ambience and fills any phantom imaging gap between and I think the front-to-back offset gives a bit more depth. I use the same setup for ss#2 between sides and rears and have an option for sides to use the rears as well in Auro-3D mode. I've got side heights above the sides with the option of either "Scatmos" derived Top Middle or Rear Heights copied (with adjustable levels on the Monoprice switchbox). 

I've got 4 more PSB CS500 speakers on order and plan to do an arrayed Top Middle that will double as a 4-speaker Voice of God (Side Heights will permanently carry Surround Height with option to use it or rears or both at varying levels). I'm also changing my ss#2 speakers to split bipoles so drivers face both sets of rows and moving it to Scatmos for discrete movement. 

My final layout will be either 11.2.10 or 11.2.11 (if I add Center Height).


----------



## Mashie Saldana

ToddDavid said:


> Well... for $6500. You can do all separates for that price, with a full slate of Hypex amps or whatnot and get amplification quality that actually matches the processing quality of the Denon AVR.


I guess you didn't spot my signature, I already have a full Hypex based 9.1.6 setup driven by a HTP-1.

Still it is a great to finally see that setup supported by a single device.


----------



## Archaea

NOAMattD said:


> Hopefully thermal performance improves from last gens...i have a tight cabinet and a smaller room


There’s not really any reason to believe it would.
What would have changed to lower thermal performance when they are using the same internal amplifiers, and a more complex/robust HDMI board? (the two biggest sources of heat)


----------



## squared80

cricket9998 said:


> Massively overpriced. This is just insulting to consumers lmao.


Show me a setup of separates that will work just as well for cheaper.


----------



## darryl.zuk

Is the Dirac included for free (like the current Onkyo AVRs) or will the firmware update just unlock the ability to pay for an upgrade to Dirac? I haven't seen that made clear anywhere yet.


----------



## OzHDHT

Been a long time since I had a Denon flagship, AVC-A1XV, let alone Denon or Marantz AVPs. Good they're finally evolving to partly support Dirac Live at least, not that I'm that much bigger fan of Dirac over Audyssey.


----------



## HTRAK

When I first started in this hobby, I was an early adopter but now I am trying not to do it anymore. I really like the AVR-A1H but like most other members have said, the price for it is very steep. Plus with all channels going, like in someone's other post, is most likely in the range of 60-70 watts all channels given. I do like that the Denon is incorporating Dirac Live calibration features into this receiver too.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

anjunadeep said:


> Biggest letdown about this release is Dirac is available via a firmware update next year. If it would be capable of using Dirac out of the box, I'd be much more interested. Denon tends to have good follow through but, I'm kind of done with Audyssey if I can help it.


Dirac is a paid upgrade. See why it isn't available out of the box?


----------



## Dan Hitchman

darryl.zuk said:


> Is the Dirac included for free (like the current Onkyo AVRs) or will the firmware update just unlock the ability to pay for an upgrade to Dirac? I haven't seen that made clear anywhere yet.


They come with Audyssey included. Dirac is a paid add-on, and I would assume replaces Audyssey when you download the software. If you want bass calibration control for multiple subs, you have to pay even more. That's Dirac's business model and now Sound United's under new ownership.

Some devices come with basic Dirac included because then they would have no auto calibration system at all, and the upgrade tiers are then paid add-ons. Like Onkyo or Monoprice or I believe JBL Synthesis as well.

Will the pricing be the same as if purchasing directly from Dirac or will Sound United want a cut too, or will you get bulk pricing? That's not clear yet.

The new flagship models from Denon and Marantz should have included premium Dirac in the box and built-in to the cost for the inflated prices they are asking.


----------



## MsrWorkshop

I just need Pioneer to do a firmware update that will include Auro 3D and I could die a happy camper😄.
Auro 3D is supposed to be way more immersive than Atmos


----------



## Mike_WI

ToddDavid said:


> Well... for $6500. You can do all separates for that price, with a full slate of Hypex amps or whatnot and get amplification quality that actually matches the processing quality of the Denon AVR. I mean, what’s the point of spending all this money on a fantastic performing processor if you’re just gonna power it all with an average quality amp?
> 
> Hell, with the help of a few y-splitters I’m running a fully separate 9.1.13 with my Denon 6700 in preamp mode w/ an 8 channel Hypex 252, 2 channel Hypex 502, and two 6-channel Rotel 1506‘s for the heights for less than the cost of one Denon A1H.


Would be nice to have a Denon pre-amp with focus on processing and then matching Denon -- or multiple other options -- for external amps.


----------



## Quickster2

I'm in the market for the 4800 to replace the 4311CI. This assumes it does not run hot like the existing models. I don't have the space nor do I want to add fans. I'm not an early adopter with this type of equipment as I once was. It seems many companies are rushing things to the market not fully sorted out. My comment goes beyond AV gear. We'll see. Hope it is a winner.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

MsrWorkshop said:


> I just need Pioneer to do a firmware update that will include Auro 3D and I could die a happy camper😄.
> Auro 3D is supposed to be way more immersive than Atmos


I think you are mistaking the Auromatic upmixer with Auro3D. Auro3D is no more immersive than Dolby Atmos or DTS: X. It's all in the mixing quality and depends on the title.


----------



## Snowmanick

That A1H is well endowed with nifty features. XLR inputs. XLR out for the subs (likely longest runs). 9.4.6 in one box.

Too bad they didn’t release this a year ago when the economy was on surer footing.


----------



## fookoo_2010

Cost is always a bone of contention. One can either afford it or not, if one wants it. The 8500 was MSRP $4K, and Denon's AVR-A1H is over 50% higher at $6500, but being at the cutting edge has its financial consequences.


----------



## Snausy

MsrWorkshop said:


> I just need Pioneer to do a firmware update that will include Auro 3D and I could die a happy camper😄.
> Auro 3D is supposed to be way more immersive than Atmos


I really enjoy Auro3D for multi-channel music listening but give me Atmos for video/movies.


----------



## lujan

Mike Lang said:


> I used to upgrade every 3-4 years but am still rocking an X4200.


I used to upgrade more often as well when Denon had the great upgrade program. Since that went away, I won't be upgrading as often.


----------



## Snausy

I have a 4700 and would move that up to the bedroom to replace my 3808 CI when I get a 4800... but honestly I want more of an upgrade. It would be nice to have more speaker options like the 6700 where I could do a voice of God or front wides.... So I have to spend $6,500 to get that? 🤔

Where is the 6800?

I also will wait for the dirac live live thing to hit and for people to start reviewing it and all that it is.

I actually am very pleased with the Audyssey sound coming from my 4700 and I would be disappointed if I had to choose one or the other. Once I did the distance change hack multiplying them all by .875 it sounds great(sounded pretty good before that).

They better not delete Audyssey if you download Dirac. I want both so that I can do an a/b comparison. I am paying for Audyssey out of the box...they can't take that away can they? Pay more to get dirac and they take away Audyssey? That doesn't seem right.

I want, but it's definitely a wait and see situation.


----------



## orbs

Hi everyone!

Very exciting!

I'm confused though. 

I thought to have a 7.1.4 system (seven surround speakers, one sub and four Atmos speakers, if I understand the shorthand correctly), 11 channels are needed.

But the new AVR-X3800H is a supposed 9 channel receiver yet it has inputs for a 7.1 setup as well as height 1 and height 2 L& R inputs, which seems to meet my 7.1.4 criteria.

Am I missing something or is the X3800H really an 11 channel receiver masquerading as a 9 channel receiver?

Thanks!


----------



## kevindd992002

So no sense in upgrading my x3700h to this, right? Add that to the fact that I'm a beginner and the x3700h is my first AVR and I haven't even had time to properly run Audyssey yet.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

orbs said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Very exciting!
> 
> I'm confused though.
> 
> I thought to have a 7.1.4 system (seven surround speakers, one sub and four Atmos speakers, if I understand the shorthand correctly), 11 channels are needed.
> 
> But the new AVR-X3800H is a supposed 9 channel receiver yet it has inputs for a 7.1 setup as well as height 1 and height 2 L& R inputs, which seems to meet my 7.1.4 criteria.
> 
> Am I missing something or is the X3800H really an 11 channel receiver masquerading as a 9 channel receiver?
> 
> Thanks!


The 3800 has 9 amps, but processes up to 7.4.4 with a paid Dirac Live upgrade. It includes Audyssey calibration as a standard feature. I would assume it's 7.2.4 out of the box in that case. You have to use a cheap stereo amp to power the Top Rear speakers, but it does have pre-amp outs for everything.


----------



## ToddDavid

kevindd992002 said:


> So no sense in upgrading my x3700h to this, right? Add that to the fact that I'm a beginner and the x3700h is my first AVR and I haven't even had time to properly run Audyssey yet.


Stick with your 3700 for a bit. Get used to it, especially if you only have plans for 7.x.4. Buy the Audyssey app and use that to tweak your speakers to taste, plus disable Midrange Compensation. Spend this contemplated AVR upgrade money on upgrading speakers/subs/amp instead. Circle back to your AVR upgrade 2 yrs from now when more options are available and refurbs can be had.


----------



## jarobata

cricket9998 said:


> Massively overpriced. This is just insulting to consumers lmao. Please guys, don’t buy this until they lower the price. Inflation is entirely made up by companies blaming it so they can just raise prices. How? Well what an amazing coincidence that most companies keep posting record profits despite “inflation”.


X3700H has been $1600 for the last year, I'm not optimistic the X3800H is coming down from $1700 anytime soon.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

Snausy said:


> I have a 4700 and would move that up to the bedroom to replace my 3808 CI when I get a 4800... but honestly I want more of an upgrade. It would be nice to have more speaker options like the 6700 where I could do a voice of God or front wides.... So I have to spend $6,500 to get that? 🤔
> 
> Where is the 6800?
> 
> I also will wait for the dirac live live thing to hit and for people to start reviewing it and all that it is.
> 
> I actually am very pleased with the Audyssey sound coming from my 4700 and I would be disappointed if I had to choose one or the other. Once I did the distance change hack multiplying them all by .875 it sounds great(sounded pretty good before that).
> 
> They better not delete Audyssey if you download Dirac. I want both so that I can do an a/b comparison. I am paying for Audyssey out of the box...they can't take that away can they? Pay more to get dirac and they take away Audyssey? That doesn't seem right.
> 
> I want, but it's definitely a wait and see situation.


It's possible that they haven't announced it yet... OR... Sound United is scrapping their 9.1.4 processing model level altogether and making you pay through the nose to move up in channel count and into their flagship offerings.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

I may have missed it, but have they announced which chips they are using? DSP and DAC chips? It would be interesting if they switched back to AKM premium DAC's considering that the company is back online.


----------



## Snausy

Dan Hitchman said:


> It's possible that they haven't announced it yet... OR... Sound United is scrapping their 9.1.4 processing model level altogether and making you pay through the nose to move up in channel count and into their flagship offerings.


I could maybe afford $6500 in terms of do I have the money, but I don't want to and I probably won't. 3-5 years down the road there will be newer and greater things which I would happily upgrade to if all I spent was 2.5k on the current unit... but $6,500 is a whole different level of investment. I don't buy things that expensive unless they're going to be with me for 10 years.

Even $4,500 is a lot. I didn't get my money by spending it. A fool and his money are soon parted.

Maybe I should be looking for a 6700 before they are gone. If the 6800 is indeed coming then I will stop thinking about it and just wait.


----------



## cricket9998

Snausy said:


> I could maybe afford $6500 in terms of do I have the money, but I don't want to and I probably won't. 3-5 years down the road there will be newer and greater things which I would happily upgrade to if all I spent was 2.5k on the current unit... but $6,500 is a whole different level of investment. I don't buy things that expensive unless they're going to be with me for 10 years.
> 
> Even $4,500 is a lot. I didn't get my money by spending it. A fool and his money are soon parted.
> 
> Maybe I should be looking for a 6700 before they are gone. If the 6800 is indeed coming then I will stop thinking about it and just wait.


You will be able to get at least refurb 6700s for a really long time so I wouldn’t worry about it. If I upgrade I’ll even sell you mine down the road 😁 They will probably announce the 6800 when enough people are forced to buy the flagship. Knowing their scummy history and the way they handled the hdmi 2.1 issues, they would totally do this.


----------



## sddp

apelbaum said:


> I will wait till next year and the new 6800 to upgrade my beloved 6500


I am a little confused as to why the 6700 isn't being upgraded? It's at its end of life gen cycle


----------



## Pixelatto

From what was mentioned in leak threads, 6800H will be announced Q3 next year available Q1 2024 with 13.4 support. 

It's great that they have introduced 4 sub support. From what I understand, Audyssey will support all 4 subs in a way that it currently supports 2 subs i.e. independent timing and phase and EQ'd as a group. No firm confirmation, but statements that Audyssey does not have limitation as to number of subs supported were made in one of the various Audyssey threads (sorry no link). 

I am also a bit cautious about Dirac Live upgrade. However, strictly speaking Dirac Live is not necessarily including DLBC multi-sub module. So it will be interesting to see which products will support DLBC. Would be rational to assume all with 4 sub outputs, but could be more exclusive due to business reasons.

There are also two new bass management features on 4 sub receivers. Directional bass is where you can assign which sub will take on specific channel below crossover frequency. So would be quadrants with 4 subs. Theoretically interesting feature, but per 3800H manual this will turn off Audyssey Sub EQ so that means what? 2 x Mini-DSP HD if you want to keep directionality feature?

Another feature is LFE distribution, which is even more questionable in terms of real life use. Here you could send LFE to bed channels set as "large" and make 0/-20db level adjustments to such signal. Unless your sub/s are underpowered or you have monster amps and monster bed speakers (10" or greater) that will not take distortion punishment being driven this hard, probably not a good idea. Not sure how this works with other aspects of bass management as you would now have "large" speakers so no crossover or sub support (unless you also run LFE+Main). 

Most importantly, we need to wait for some decent reviews to come out on all this stuff + more.


----------



## Hawks07

Pixelatto said:


> From what was mentioned in leak threads, 6800H will be announced Q3 next year available Q1 2024 with 13.4 support.
> 
> It's great that they have introduced 4 sub support. From what I understand, Audyssey will support all 4 subs in a way that it currently supports 2 subs i.e. independent timing and phase and EQ'd as a group. No firm confirmation, but statements that Audyssey does not have limitation as to number of subs supported were made in one of the various Audyssey threads (sorry no link).
> 
> I am also a bit cautious about Dirac Live upgrade. However, strictly speaking Dirac Live is not necessarily including DLBC multi-sub module. So it will be interesting to see which products will support DLBC. Would be rational to assume all with 4 sub outputs, but could be more exclusive due to business reasons.
> 
> There are also two new bass management features on 4 sub receivers. Directional bass is where you can assign which sub will take on specific channel below crossover frequency. So would be quadrants with 4 subs. Theoretically interesting feature, but per 3800H manual this will turn off Audyssey Sub EQ so that means what? 2 x Mini-DSP HD if you want to keep directionality feature?
> 
> Another feature is LFE distribution, which is even more questionable in terms of real life use. Here you could send LFE to bed channels set as "large" and make 0/-20db level adjustments to such signal. Unless your sub/s are underpowered or you have monster amps and monster bed speakers (10" or greater) that will not take distortion punishment being driven this hard, probably not a good idea. Not sure how this works with other aspects of bass management as you would now have "large" speakers so no crossover or sub support (unless you also run LFE+Main).
> 
> Most importantly, we need to wait for some decent reviews to come out on all this stuff + more.


If true that's too bad that the 6800 will only do 13.4.
Outside of Dirac and the four sub capabilities (which can be done with a Minidsp) there wouldn't be much incentive to upgrade from a 6700.


----------



## Snausy

Hawks07 said:


> If true that's too bad that the 6800 will only do 13.4.
> Outside of Dirac and the four sub capabilities (which can be done with a Minidsp) there wouldn't be much incentive to upgrade from a 6700.


No, but you can go to the new flagship for an upgrade(I didn't price the thing so don't be mad at me for saying so lol). The 8500 was the same thing over the 6700. Those were always the top two models.

For those of us with 4700s we'll look to the 6800 for an upgrade path. Two top middles added to the mix would be nice. Home theater gurus says that front wides are underrated as well. Either one would be a welcome change and fun to play with.


----------



## Hawks07

Snausy said:


> No, but you can go to the new flagship for an upgrade(I didn't price the thing so don't be mad at me for saying so lol). The 8500 was the same thing over the 6700. Those were always the top two models.
> 
> For those of us with 4700s we'll look to the 6800 for an upgrade path. Two top middles added to the mix would be nice. Home theater gurus says that front wides are underrated as well. Either one would be a welcome change and fun to play with.


The difference being that the 8500 and 6700 had the same 13 channel capabilities. 
So now you are looking at probably a $3k charge to get two extra channels.


----------



## rlmccarty2000

Since I just bought a new 6700 for $2000 I won’t be upgrading until the 6900s come out (maybe). My 6700 is still in the box while I finish paint and acoustics on my new theater. Just got my 2 SVS SB-3000s a few days ago and I have to order another set of Atmos and rear surrounds. I’m dying to get everything set up correctly, but slow and steady wins the race. Cheers!


----------



## oniiz

Dan Hitchman said:


> I may have missed it, but have they announced which chips they are using? DSP and DAC chips? It would be interesting if they switched back to AKM premium DAC's considering that the company is back online.


According to this article here Denon AVC-A1H: 15.4, HDMI 2.1, 8K UHD Upscaling, 360 Reality Audio, DTS:X Pro, Imax Enhanced, Auro 3D, HDR10 …… it seems they're sticking with ESS DACs, upgrading the Denon A1H Flagship to ESS Sabre *ES9018K2M *DACs, is that a new variant on the older OPPO BDP-105/105D ESS Sabre ES9018 DACs?


----------



## Dan Hitchman

rlmccarty2000 said:


> Since I just bought a new 6700 for $2000 I won’t be upgrading until the 6900s come out (maybe). My 6700 is still in the box while I finish paint and acoustics on my new theater. Just got my 2 SVS SB-3000s a few days ago and I have to order another set of Atmos and rear surrounds. I’m dying to get everything set up correctly, but slow and steady wins the race. Cheers!


Oh my! Where did you find the 6700 for $2,000?


----------



## MagnumX

Pixelatto said:


> From what was mentioned in leak threads, 6800H will be announced Q3 next year available Q1 2024 with 13.4 support.
> 
> It's great that they have introduced 4 sub support. From what I understand, Audyssey will support all 4 subs in a way that it currently supports 2 subs i.e. independent timing and phase and EQ'd as a group. No firm confirmation, but statements that Audyssey does not have limitation as to number of subs supported were made in one of the various Audyssey threads (sorry no link).
> 
> I am also a bit cautious about Dirac Live upgrade. However, strictly speaking Dirac Live is not necessarily including DLBC multi-sub module. So it will be interesting to see which products will support DLBC. Would be rational to assume all with 4 sub outputs, but could be more exclusive due to business reasons.
> 
> There are also two new bass management features on 4 sub receivers. Directional bass is where you can assign which sub will take on specific channel below crossover frequency. So would be quadrants with 4 subs. Theoretically interesting feature, but per 3800H manual this will turn off Audyssey Sub EQ so that means what? 2 x Mini-DSP HD if you want to keep directionality feature?
> 
> Another feature is LFE distribution, which is even more questionable in terms of real life use. Here you could send LFE to bed channels set as "large" and make 0/-20db level adjustments to such signal. Unless your sub/s are underpowered or you have monster amps and monster bed speakers (10" or greater) that will not take distortion punishment being driven this hard, probably not a good idea. Not sure how this works with other aspects of bass management as you would now have "large" speakers so no crossover or sub support (unless you also run LFE+Main).
> 
> Most importantly, we need to wait for some decent reviews to come out on all this stuff + more.


LFE distribution is the feature Gene raved about on Storm's multi-kilobuck processor. 

I think it's an excellent idea. Nothing quite pisses off a person with common sense that you're expected to just turn your prized towers into crappy bookshelf speakers, negating 95+% of the difference between using them and the cheaper bookshelf speakers that look like turds sitting on a stand because they're too small to stand on their own. 

While you could run those channels full range, you couldn't do a damn thing about the LFE signal. It's all or nothing. The thing about most rooms is they have modes. The thing about getting rid of dips is you tend to need more expensive large room hogging subwoofers where the ideal place to put one might be your walking aisle or the exit. 

Using multiple full range speakers you need anyway for 7.1.4 or more is like getting free subwoofers to cure the problem except for two issues. Except for a select few, they typically can't play low and loud enough compared to a separate sub. But that doesn't mean that they're worthless for room correction. 

Most room dips are in the 50Hz-120Hz range and a good tower has no problems playing in that range except perhaps at the highest levels. If you could control and deal with those limitations with quality software (I believe DIRAC is working on taking the concept to the next level and using all your speakers to correct above sub levels as well) , you could perhaps get by with one or two subs instead of 4 or more at all but room shaking levels, which would be a massive improvement for no extra money if you already have two or more full range speakers. 

I've got one partial dip at the MLP at 55Hz and the left main near the sub does too, but the center channel tower does not have that dip at that location at all. If I could tell Audyssey or the AVR to use fill at that frequency for bass in general including the LFE, NY problem would be solved without the need for an additional subwoofer. You can't always just add another sub either. Ideally, you want matching subs because the software usually isn't good enough to handle the dichotomy easily. Better room correction would take advantage of what you already have.


----------



## MagnumX

I see they've added support for Sony 360 Audio finally. It only took 2 years with 3+ years notice.... Not a chance of adding the code to older models when it would just be a firmware update. You gotta buy a new $6500 AVR to get your PS4 games and music in immersive.


----------



## anjunadeep

Dan Hitchman said:


> Dirac is a paid upgrade. See why it isn't available out of the box?


I certainly understand it being a paid upgrade, my disappointment is more that it isn't available immediately and I'd have to wait for an unknown amount of time to have it available to me. I'm not a fan of the "release it and then we'll update the firmware later" trend. It seems to often result in upset owners.


----------



## squared80

MagnumX said:


> I see they've added support for Sony 360 Audio finally. It only took 2 years with 3+ years notice.... Not a chance of adding the code to older models when it would just be a firmware update. You gotta buy a new $6500 AVR to get your PS4 games and music in immersive.


Well, to be fair, the problem was Sony trying to go all 'proprietary' on it, which was asinine IMO.


----------



## owcraftsman

darryl.zuk said:


> Is the Dirac included for free (like the current Onkyo AVRs) or will the firmware update just unlock the ability to pay for an upgrade to Dirac? I haven't seen that made clear anywhere yet.


I believe it could cost as much as 400-500 w/bass management. As yet Dirac has not added Denon or Marantz to the supported hardware list. I would think Dirac bass management is needed with 4 independent sub outs and it sells for 500 at Dirac's web site for other hardware. The expression compatible doesn't smack me as free. According to Gene Dirac will work *with *Audyssey so it could be a new iteration of both melded together somehow. Still, me thinks it won't be free. For sure the 3800H represents a fantastic value considering it has 11 ch processing. If you are like me with external amps I can't see a reason to spend more in my setup at least.


----------



## orbs

Dan Hitchman said:


> The 3800 has 9 amps, but processes up to 7.4.4 with a paid Dirac Live upgrade. It includes Audyssey calibration as a standard feature. I would assume it's 7.2.4 out of the box in that case. You have to use a cheap stereo amp to power the Top Rear speakers, but it does have pre-amp outs for everything.


Thank you! What does Dirac Live cost and is it a one time cost or a subscription?

Any recommendations on an inexpensive stereo amp for the rear height speakers?

Thanks again!


----------



## qwgjgkdgf

Yet, will they stream Spotify from Alexa? It doesn't work now!


----------



## oniiz

MagnumX said:


> I see they've added support for Sony 360 Audio finally. It only took 2 years with 3+ years notice.... Not a chance of adding the code to older models when it would just be a firmware update. You gotta buy a new $6500 AVR to get your PS4 games and music in immersive.


I know they won't but technically the D+M X8500H(HA), A110, X6700H, X4700H AV8805(A), AV7706, SR8015 & SR7015 already support MPEG-H on 220/230V models in the EU/UK/AU & certain Asian regions owing to the use of ADI's Griffin Lite DSP so they could update the 220/230V models at the very least with Sony's 360 Reality Audio as it's based off the same MPEG-H, the Japanese market has support for MPEG-4 AAC but the rest of the world doesn't at the moment.


----------



## Pixelatto

MagnumX said:


> LFE distribution is the feature Gene raved about on Storm's multi-kilobuck processor.
> 
> I think it's an excellent idea.


Having options is always valuable and full range bed channels are slowly getting the attention they always deserved. This is one example, Dirac MIME is another (better) one - with MIME finally fixing DLBC "issue" that it was not taking any advantage of bed channel towers for bass management.

I was questioning how many people will be able to take advantage of this though, as it requires towers + solid amps. Also, there is still a question - if you select "large" for LFE distribution, will that impact your "basic" bass management so that your "large" speakers for LFE distribution will be treated as "large" overall (i.e. no sub support unless you run LFE+Main)? 

If "large" will be setting for all bass management, you will want to enable LFE+Main, and then you towers and amps will be under pretty heavy double bass load which will put them into even more significant stress than LFE+Main that is already pretty taxing. 

If "large" will be set only for LFE distribution, the question is are you not better off using LFE+Main to start with (assuming both prove too taxing for your gear)?


----------



## TimA

wseroyer said:


> Prices are ridiculous I paid $1400 for my 4700, really regretting not getting a 6700 when prices where the same as 4800.


I paid $1499 for my 6300 when Crutchfield was closing them out at the end of the year.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

orbs said:


> Thank you! What does Dirac Live cost and is it a one time cost or a subscription?
> 
> Any recommendations on an inexpensive stereo amp for the rear height speakers?
> 
> Thanks again!


The Dirac firmware cost through Denon or whether it will be a one time licensing fee is unknown at this time.

As long as you don't have a massive room to fill the *AIYIMA A07 *digital amp available on Amazon might be a cheap enough solution to power the Top Rear speakers.


----------



## peddler

Pixelatto said:


> Having options is always valuable and full range bed channels are slowly getting the attention they always deserved. This is one example, Dirac MIME is another (better) one - with MIME finally fixing DLBC "issue" that it was not taking any advantage of bed channel towers for bass management.
> 
> I was questioning how many people will be able to take advantage of this though, as it requires towers + solid amps. Also, there is still a question - if you select "large" for LFE distribution, will that impact your "basic" bass management so that your "large" speakers for LFE distribution will be treated as "large" overall (i.e. no sub support unless you run LFE+Main)?
> 
> If "large" will be setting for all bass management, you will want to enable LFE+Main, and then you towers and amps will be under pretty heavy double bass load which will put them into even more significant stress than LFE+Main that is already pretty taxing.
> 
> If "large" will be set only for LFE distribution, the question is are you not better off using LFE+Main to start with (assuming both prove too taxing for your gear)?


Do Denon receivers have variable crossover settings per speaker like in the Onkyos? Or, are Small and Large the only selections available during calibration?


----------



## MagnumX

peddler said:


> Do Denon receivers have variable crossover settings per speaker like in the Onkyos? Or, are Small and Large the only selections available during calibration?


They're variable by pair on my Marantz.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

peddler said:


> Do Denon receivers have variable crossover settings per speaker like in the Onkyos? Or, are Small and Large the only selections available during calibration?


They have per speaker crossovers or a global setting depending on your selection. Before and after calibration.


----------



## wseroyer

Dan Hitchman said:


> The Dirac firmware cost through Denon or whether it will be a one time licensing fee is unknown at this time.
> 
> As long as you don't have a massive room to fill the *AIYIMA A07 *digital amp available on Amazon might be a cheap enough solution to power the Top Rear speakers.


I use this amp for my rear heigh channels with my AVR - x4700h, it works great, very quite amp and has plenty of power for a ceiling speaker.


----------



## Pixelatto

My complaint about crossovers was obviously not heard. Denon (at least per 3800H manual) kept the same crossover points like last year - 40hz, 60hz, 80hz, and then up by 10hz. For 40-80hz, a full octave, that is also so essential to HT experience, you have only a middle point half octave setting at 60hz. This is kind of when you need a toothpick, Denon gives you a spear to do the job. They were trying to improve bass management and added new features, but forgot the very basic feature that would IMO be more useful that the LFE distribution and Directional subs. 

And then from 80-160hz which is another octave, you will have 7 steps. Obviously geared towards the bookshelves


----------



## mazafakka

I see there are two versions of the various models: AVR and AVC. The AVC does not include the FM tuner, which seems preferable since it may reduce noise sources, and who listens to radio anymore? But most vendors right now are only listing the AVR. Denon's own website only lists the AVR. Anyone have further info on this? Perhaps the AVC models are non-US?


----------



## batlin27

Fantastic _sarcasm_ , this has totally thrown my plan for a loop. My original plan was to wait and hope fora new Denon AVR that would do 15.2..and if one didn't come out be the time I needed to purchase, Jan 2023 time frame, I was going to go with the Anthem MRX-1140. Now that the Denon has been announced I am incredibly happy until I saw the price. I have always been a Denon guy, but had talked my self into the Anthem, started to really like some of the features (virtual inputs, very clean web gui) as I was not expecting to get a new Denon announcement until Q3'23.. and here we are.....

 

Is Dirac that much Better then Audyssey? Are they much better than Anthems? What is the benefit to Dirac and what is an upgrade typically cost?


----------



## orbs

Dan Hitchman said:


> The Dirac firmware cost through Denon or whether it will be a one time licensing fee is unknown at this time.
> 
> As long as you don't have a massive room to fill the *AIYIMA A07 *digital amp available on Amazon might be a cheap enough solution to power the Top Rear speakers.


Thank you!


----------



## orbs

Dan Hitchman said:


> The Dirac firmware cost through Denon or whether it will be a one time licensing fee is unknown at this time.
> 
> As long as you don't have a massive room to fill the *AIYIMA A07 *digital amp available on Amazon might be a cheap enough solution to power the Top Rear speakers.


One last question, before I make a couple of purchases - to get a 7.1.4 system (seven surround speakers, one sub and four Atmos speakers) with the new 3800H, I understand that I need the amp to power two of the speakers. 

Do I need Dirac Live if I only have one sub? You suggested that the 3800H might support 7.2.4 out of the box, so that seems to meet my criteria (again, assuming I add the amp to power two of the speakers).

If I do need Dirac Live, has Denon given any ETA on when pricing or availability will be announced?

Thank you, again!


----------



## Dan Hitchman

orbs said:


> One last question, before I make a couple of purchases - to get a 7.1.4 system (seven surround speakers, one sub and four Atmos speakers) with the new 3800H, I understand that I need the amp to power two of the speakers.
> 
> Do I need Dirac Live if I only have one sub? You suggested that the 3800H might support 7.2.4 out of the box, so that seems to meet my criteria (again, assuming I add the amp to power two of the speakers).
> 
> If I do need Dirac Live, has Denon given any ETA on when pricing or availability will be announced?
> 
> Thank you, again!


No time frame yet for the paid Dirac upgrade. I'm going to assume sometime next year.

You will want to get the Audyssey app for fine tuning of the calibration results. If you are still not satisfied with how Audyssey works with your setup or you add a bunch more subs, then consider purchasing the Dirac license as it is a more "refined" calibration software for the entire system. It does have a steeper learning curve, however, in order to gain even better results.

What speakers/sub are you going with? If you mentioned them before, I forgot.


----------



## JediFonger

apologies if this was already asked, i looked at specs on website but it somehow doesnt list it or i missed it. does this support hd radio? i notice a ton of newer components no longer support hd radio… i thought there was some law mandating fm to hd radio similar to rabbit ear to atsc 2/3 antennas?

beyond that. is the only difference dirac like 3800 vs 3700 for example?


----------



## kavipi5236

Perfect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ficobe1027

I’m new


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

