# Verizon FIOS-TV: Any reviews of the DVR



## ThomC

As I anxiously await availability of FIOS TV, I'm curious as to what people think of the HD-DVR they are using. I understand it is a Motorola DCT 6412, but I don't hjave any info on the software it runs.


Your thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## seven-

yeah I'd like to see some FiOS TV DVR reviews too.


How come nobody is replying to this topic?


----------



## dt_dc

FiOS QIP6416 DVR thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=617635


----------



## dt_dc

Blog / review:
http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/go...hello-fios-tv/


----------



## esmtexas

I have had Verizon FiOS for three to four weeks now. Although picture and sound quality are great, as well as the channel line up We are very displeased with the user interface. It is very painful to schedule series recordings, very difficult to navigate through all the required actions in oder to perform most DVR activities. We previously had Direct TV and before that Dish Network. The FiOS interface is difficult at best to navigate and is not even close to the other interfaces we have used previously.


Added to our frustration, since we do not have Verizon phone service (their old copper network was so bad that we went to digital phone a few years ago with the cablke company). When we try to call support we get transferred by their automated system to a liner that is closed (evening and weekends). To date, because of this problem we have been given at least four other phone numbers for support some of those give fast busy.


Anyway, if we can get out of our contract we will cancel our service and go back to Direct TV. It has the best DVR interface, intuitive and forgiving.


----------



## ITGuy72

I wonder which is worse, this write-up sounds strikingly similar to my experiences with Cablevision's SA box, the 8300HD, which if I'm not mistaken is your alternative in Katonah, NY also (OP). S3 TiVo is looking like an appealing, if expensive option right now.


----------



## MJDallas

All I can say at this point is please be patient. There is a solution in the works for the interface issues. Can't help you with your phone problem, I don't work in that department.


----------



## odubman

Is there a good place to reference current bugs / issues and upcoming software upgrades for the 6416 DVR?


----------



## JanetSouthlake

We Have Had Fios For 2 Weeks And Hate The Dvr So Much We May Go Back To Direct Tv/tivo. It Is So Much Easier. Costomer Service Has Had To Do A Reset 3 Times! When You But A Movie Off Pay Per View You Can Not Record It For Later Viewing Like You Can With Direct Tv.there Are Many Things We Like Better With Fios But The Dvr Is A Deal Breaker!


----------



## garnet92

I'm a 2-week FIOS user and find the user interface for the guide to be about as bad as it could be. I'm coming from DirecTV and TIVO which had an outstanding UI. As background, I've been designing UIs for computer users for many years and whoever designed the UI for Verizon simply disregarded all of the guidelines for easy use. The font is so large that it limits sigficantly the amount of data that can be displayed. I'm officially a geezer and it doesn't have to be that large for old timers to see the data. It limits how many channels can be displayed at a time, limits the time segments that can be shown and generally looks like it was designed for 5-year-olds. The show descriptions don't even show whether the movie is a comedy, a drama, or a horror show. I understand that Verizon contracts for all of the development but whoever approved this crap needs his/her head examined. I LOVE the HD quality and I know that the bandwidth will serve us well in the future but had I known how bad the UI (and the remote) was, I may have decided to hang onto my TIVO until FIOS was ready for prime time. I note the remote as below par as well since you must point it directly at the STB or it won't trigger. All of my other remotes just require pointing in the general direction. I just ordered a Logitech 880 to replace that awful remote. And, when are we going to get more than 25 HD channels. Sorry --- just venting.


----------



## joeinma

While I don't have FiOS yet, as us Directv users know, the TIVO interface is the pinnacle of the DVR software chain. One suggestion for those who dropped DirecTV for FiOS and now are considering switching back. Why not buy a stand alone Tivo to use for your DVR needs? I know its an extra monthly fee and that their HD version is expensive, but it will give you the best of both worlds.


----------



## zot23

Try $800 for the Tivo series 3 box and $20 a month for Tivo. Sorry, that's a little bit more than a little bit expensive...


----------



## MJDallas

The current IPG (Interactive Program Guide) was written by Microsoft. (Ugh, I know...). Verizon is currentlly in the process of field testing their new and improved IPG right now. I have seen some screen shots and I can say that it is MUCH MUCH better. There should be a new remote available soon also. The current Motorola remote will be replaced by a Philips remote (back lit with color coded buttons. More ergonomic too). This will be for new installs only so if you already have FIOS you will have to call and request an updated one (when they are released). I am not sure when the new remotes will roll out, but I have seen them during the testing stages of the units. (I work for Verizon by the way)


Hang in there, there are many new cool things coming to FIOS. Verizon is an infant in the video cable business and we are growing fast. Soon there will be no other service that can even come close to touching what we can offer. Sitck it out, you won't be sorry.


MJDallas



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garnet92* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm a 2-week FIOS user and find the user interface for the guide to be about as bad as it could be. I'm coming from DirecTV and TIVO which had an outstanding UI. As background, I've been designing UIs for computer users for many years and whoever designed the UI for Verizon simply disregarded all of the guidelines for easy use. The font is so large that it limits sigficantly the amount of data that can be displayed. I'm officially a geezer and it doesn't have to be that large for old timers to see the data. It limits how many channels can be displayed at a time, limits the time segments that can be shown and generally looks like it was designed for 5-year-olds. The show descriptions don't even show whether the movie is a comedy, a drama, or a horror show. I understand that Verizon contracts for all of the development but whoever approved this crap needs his/her head examined. I LOVE the HD quality and I know that the bandwidth will serve us well in the future but had I known how bad the UI (and the remote) was, I may have decided to hang onto my TIVO until FIOS was ready for prime time. I note the remote as below par as well since you must point it directly at the STB or it won't trigger. All of my other remotes just require pointing in the general direction. I just ordered a Logitech 880 to replace that awful remote. And, when are we going to get more than 25 HD channels. Sorry --- just venting.


----------



## Five Hole

A video of the new interactive guide. http://www.verizonfios.com/img


----------



## maharg18




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zot23* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try $800 for the Tivo series 3 box and $20 a month for Tivo. Sorry, that's a little bit more than a little bit expensive...



Or $399 for the Series 3 and $12.95 - $16.95 per month.


----------



## Topshelf147

Wow, that new IPG looks really impressive. Will that just be an upgrade to all current subscribers? Or is that going to be on a new, not yet released box? I'm swinging back and forth right now trying to decide if I want to make the jump to FiOS TV and have decided that I'm not putting out the money for an S3 setup even though I have 2 S2's now. I'd love to know exactly when this would be out and when the new remote would be available as well. I'd hate to get all my stuff to find out a week later all the new cooler stuff was just released.


Oh, anyone know why they seem to allow photo and music transfers but not video? That looks like the one flaw.


----------



## NYY

Had fios for 3 painful weeks in Feb. Remote was almost impossible to use, IPG hard to navigate and info was nothing more than an overview of the programming vs. program content, DVR was sluggish, macroblocked, skipped movie parts (you name it).


- New remote-greatly improved and possibly useable.

- IPG is much improved for navigation, but I see from the video that was kindly posted, it still only comments on the type of program on rather than the actual program content...stop at the part for Oprah: Instead of listing guests or topic of conversation it states "A one-woman entertainment dynasty, and the gold standard in the talk show genre, able to attract just about..." Really pathetic programming information. And it still doesn't list why the program received the rating, like dish or directv does.

- Real question is how does the DVR perform. Some movies were unwatchable. Would like to know if the DVR is a newer model.


----------



## bfdtv

As noted earlier, the primary thread for the FiOS DVR -- and every other cable company DVR -- is in the HDTV Recorders forum. It doesn't matter whether you have a HDTV or not, all the review and support threads are in that forum.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> - New remote looks greatly improved does it skip forward (for those with a DVR).



Yes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> - Can the remote, control what's passed thru (1080i, 720p, 480i etc.) or do you still need to turn off the STB and navigate that terrible menu



No all-native option was added, but some of the common video settings (1080i, 720p, etc) were moved to the GUI.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does the DVR perform. Some movies were unwatchable on the box I had (from my old paperwork model # appears to be 6401.



Picture quality has always been great on FiOS, provided your installation was done correctly. If you mean the skipping that sometime occurred during FFW on the DVR, then yes, that was largely resolved with recent updates to the existing software (and the new guide).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really pathetic programming information. And it still doesn't list why the program received the rating, like dish or directv does. Almost a deal breaker for my wife who only records shows based on guests or topic.



The guide provider hasn't changed. They've improved somewhat in recent months, but it's still not comparable to what you get with Tivo.


If recording based on subject matter and keywords is important to you, have you considered the $299 TivoHD ($260 with CC coupon)? It works great with FiOS, although you lose VOD. Of course, you don't get VOD with DirecTV anyway.


----------



## bfdtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Topshelf147* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, that new IPG looks really impressive. Will that just be an upgrade to all current subscribers? Or is that going to be on a new, not yet released box?



It's an upgrade for the current box. All subscribers should have it by the end of August.


Note the upgrade is mostly an aesthetic overhaul. It dramatically improves the look and responsiveness of the guide, as well as searching, but the DVR functionality is largely unchanged aside from the option to eliminate padding.

http://www.verizonfios.com/img 


The rollout schedule for the new guide software, as reported on DSLReports.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *matcarl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MA 8/2
> 
> new customers only NJ/PA/DE 8/2
> 
> extisting customers NJ/PA/DE 8/28
> 
> other parts NJ 8/7
> 
> NY 8/9
> 
> CA 8/14
> 
> FL 8/16
> 
> TX 8/21
> 
> MD 8/23 (and N. VA)



Channel surfing on the new FiOS guide is excellent, but if you watch mostly recorded programming, then the $260 TivoHD is still the [best] box to have.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Topshelf147* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, anyone know why they seem to allow photo and music transfers but not video? That looks like the one flaw.



They've talked of adding that in the future, but it won't be soon. Note I am referring to playback of your PC videos. The FiOS DVR will never allow you to copy recorded files from the DVR to your PC over ethernet.


----------



## Go_Padge

We had FiOS TV installed on Tuesday, theoretically replacing my Dish 622 installation. Verizon brought out a QIP 6416 and two QIP 2500's.


One's not used yet, but Verizon requires "Professional Installation"....


And yet the tech couldn't figure out how to unhook the Dish from our Yamaha HTTR-5660 receiver and hook up the QIP 6416. So Tuesday night I plugged the digital audio and S-Video cables into the Moto box.


Anyway, we've been trying to adapt to the new box and interface. I have to say I'm not really impressed, the DVR features are lacking is several areas.


Skip ahead and skip back have a serious lag between when you push the button and when the system recovers. Going forward is ok if you press skip, wait ~3 seconds for the box to recover, and then press skip again. Unfortunately, we're use to skipping through the commercial breaks by pressing skip 5 or 6 times. On the QIP 6416 this is a hassle as the box still takes several seconds to recover, but at least individual presses of skip ahead seem pretty smooth. On the QIP 2500 the picture pixelates horribly as you skip ahead, and the system doesn't seem to reliably catch multiple presses of the skip button. Skipping back is ok on the QIP 6416, but it's practically useless on the QIP 2500. By the time the system recovers from the pixelation the 3 seconds you skipped back has already passed. (And remember, it seems to have issues picking up multiple presses.)


The QIP 2500 will play recorded events from the QIP 6416, but I can't schedule or delete recorded events from the 2500. So if I watch a show and want to record the next episode, I have to walk into the other room to schedule it. And if I have say 10 episodes of a show recorded, and watch several on the QIP 2500, I have to remember which ones I've watched so I can delete them when I get in front of the QIP 6416 again. Heaven forbid if the wife's in bed at night watching a show on the QIP 2500 and wants to record the rest of it....


We did get the new remote. It seems to have a several improvements over what we've heard about the old remote, but they seem to have disabled the page feature in the guide. So rather than paging through the guide I have to scroll through the listing channel by channel, visually it's no better than watching Time Warner's scrolling guide. Also I can't, or haven't been able to figure out how to, skip days in the guide. Last night I wanted to schedule to watch next Wednesday nights episode of Mythbusters. For Dish it would have required six presses of the skip button to jump over in the guide to next Wednesday. On the QIP 6416 I had to scroll over from Thursday to Wednesday.


As far as the setup goes is it possible to have two QIP 6416's in the house and at least be able to share recordings across the two boxes? Otherwise I see an upgrade to a Dish 622 receiver in my future.....


I'd like to hold out for the rollout of the new program guide, but at this rate I doubt we'll make it.


----------



## bfdtv

The current guide you are using is almost three years old and it shows. It does have page +/- and day +/-, but buttons for those functions aren't on your new remote. Your remote is intended for use with the new guide, not the old one. You can remove channels you don't want under Settings -> Channel Lineup.


You should get the new guide between 8/21 and 8/27 in Texas.


Aesthetics are dramatically improved in the new guide. Responsiveness is also improved. Page up and page down in the new guide are done using channel + / -. The remote also controls day + / -, using the skip forward and skip back buttons IIRC.


Another option is the TivoHD, which works great with FiOS. It costs $260-$270 from Best Buy and Circuit City when you use a coupon from ************** , but that gets you the best DVR usability and reliability on the market.


----------



## Go_Padge




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bfdtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The current guide you are using is almost three years old and it shows. It does have page +/- and day +/-, but buttons for those functions aren't on your new remote. Your remote is intended for use with the new guide, not the old one. You can remove channels you don't want under Settings -> Channel Lineup.



We figured that one out, and it helped a lot. (Other than having to unselect pretty much everything between 260 and 694 on both boxes.







)



> Quote:
> You should get the new guide between 8/21 and 8/27 in Texas.
> 
> 
> Aesthetics are dramatically improved in the new guide. Responsiveness is also improved. Page up and page down in the new guide are done using channel + / -. The remote also controls day + / -, using the skip forward and skip back buttons IIRC.



And that's what we'll try to hold out for. Are you aware of any changes to improve the performance when viewing recorded shows on the QIP 2500?



> Quote:
> Another option is the TivoHD, which works great with FiOS. It costs $260-$270 from Best Buy and Circuit City when you use a coupon from ************** , but that gets you the best DVR usability and reliability on the market.



The TivoHD looks good. But I still want to be able to view content in multiple rooms. (And I also want to be able to schedule content to record and to delete watched content from all TV's.) Will the Tivo do that?


----------



## bfdtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Go_Padge* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And that's what we'll try to hold out for. Are you aware of any changes to improve the performance when viewing recorded shows on the QIP 2500?



That I do not know.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Go_Padge* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The TivoHD looks good. But I still want to be able to view content in multiple rooms. (And I also want to be able to schedule content to record and to delete watched content from all TV's.) Will the Tivo do that?



Tivo supports that feature -- they call it MRV, an abbreviation for multi-room viewing -- on the non-HD boxes. The TivoHD does not currently support that feature. Tivo told reviewers that they expect to enable that functionality before the end of the year.


Note Tivo's MRV lets you view and manipulate recordings on other Tivos in your home, but they don't do cooperative scheduling, meaning you can't setup recordings on the living room Tivo from your bedroom Tivo. You can, however, setup recordings on your Tivos over the Internet from work or from your office PC.


Another benefit of the Tivos is that you can upgrade their internal drive (or buy a unit with a pre-upgraded drive). Tivo has said they will enable eSATA drive expansion later this year. My TivoHD has a 750Gb drive for 94 hours of HD storage and hundreds of hours of SD storage.


If I were you, I would wait until Verizon upgrades their DVR software later this month, and then decide then if you can tolerate that until Tivo releases their software update with MRV. If not, then I suppose you go to Dish Network, but last I checked, they would require a two-year commitment. Personally, I would be very hesitant to commit to any provider for that long right now, with so many new HD channels launching between August and December. We'll have a better sense of how all providers compare -- in both quantity and quality of channels -- by Christmas.


----------



## smokeyonion




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Go_Padge* /forum/post/11271382
> 
> 
> We had FiOS TV installed on Tuesday, theoretically replacing my Dish 622 installation. Verizon brought out a QIP 6416 and two QIP 2500's.
> 
> 
> One's not used yet, but Verizon requires "Professional Installation"....
> 
> 
> And yet the tech couldn't figure out how to unhook the Dish from our Yamaha HTTR-5660 receiver and hook up the QIP 6416. So Tuesday night I plugged the digital audio and S-Video cables into the Moto box.
> 
> 
> Anyway, we've been trying to adapt to the new box and interface. I have to say I'm not really impressed, the DVR features are lacking is several areas.
> 
> 
> Skip ahead and skip back have a serious lag between when you push the button and when the system recovers. Going forward is ok if you press skip, wait ~3 seconds for the box to recover, and then press skip again. Unfortunately, we're use to skipping through the commercial breaks by pressing skip 5 or 6 times. On the QIP 6416 this is a hassle as the box still takes several seconds to recover, but at least individual presses of skip ahead seem pretty smooth. On the QIP 2500 the picture pixelates horribly as you skip ahead, and the system doesn't seem to reliably catch multiple presses of the skip button. Skipping back is ok on the QIP 6416, but it's practically useless on the QIP 2500. By the time the system recovers from the pixelation the 3 seconds you skipped back has already passed. (And remember, it seems to have issues picking up multiple presses.)
> 
> 
> The QIP 2500 will play recorded events from the QIP 6416, but I can't schedule or delete recorded events from the 2500. So if I watch a show and want to record the next episode, I have to walk into the other room to schedule it. And if I have say 10 episodes of a show recorded, and watch several on the QIP 2500, I have to remember which ones I've watched so I can delete them when I get in front of the QIP 6416 again. Heaven forbid if the wife's in bed at night watching a show on the QIP 2500 and wants to record the rest of it....
> 
> 
> We did get the new remote. It seems to have a several improvements over what we've heard about the old remote, but they seem to have disabled the page feature in the guide. So rather than paging through the guide I have to scroll through the listing channel by channel, visually it's no better than watching Time Warner's scrolling guide. Also I can't, or haven't been able to figure out how to, skip days in the guide. Last night I wanted to schedule to watch next Wednesday nights episode of Mythbusters. For Dish it would have required six presses of the skip button to jump over in the guide to next Wednesday. On the QIP 6416 I had to scroll over from Thursday to Wednesday.
> 
> 
> As far as the setup goes is it possible to have two QIP 6416's in the house and at least be able to share recordings across the two boxes? Otherwise I see an upgrade to a Dish 622 receiver in my future.....
> 
> 
> I'd like to hold out for the rollout of the new program guide, but at this rate I doubt we'll make it.



Were you able to record shows from 2500 when you had old guide? Any other boxes support it?? I am not sure though. If you wanna go back to Dish...go dude. who stopped you??


----------



## heavylee

I had been a Comcast customer for years and years, and honestly never had too many problems. My service was not flakey, and I didn't need to call them very often - except to haggle with them to be put on a pricing promotion each time the previous promo ran out. But I felt like my luck couldn't last forever, and I disrespect Comcast for the way that they overall run their business. So I was very excited to see that Fios fiber was being run in to my neighborhood.


About 6 weeks ago, I got a call from a Verizon salesperson offering Fios services and I chose to get my POTS service moved to Fios, 10/2 Internet, HD TV service with one HD DVR, and a basic converter box for my old crappy TV. All this was about $110/month.


On the day of installation almost exactly one month ago, the installer arrived at the beginning of the appointment time block and was very friendly and knowledgeable. The area of my house where Comcast/Verizon service comes in is about 20 feet from the pole that Fios was strung to, so they didn't bury the fiber (which is what I preferred). Installation went quickly and without problem.


My telephone service is fine - no change in service quality, none expected. Their internet service was as fast as I signed up for. I did several speed tests at different times of day and 10/2 is pretty much what I was getting. Wifey and I don't do any online gaming, nor heavy downloading. Mostly just typical surfing and email activities. Once in a while, I'll upload a bunch of content to my website, but a couple dozen MBs would be rare.


The TV service was a horrible experience for me. Bare with me as this part is going to get quite long-winded. Previously with Comcast, I was using a home-built DVR (SageTV). But since I had ordered the Fios DVR which has a dual tuner, I thought I'd be all set to be able to fully replace the functionality (that I love) of SageTV and everything would be perfect in HD quality. Boy was I wrong.


The DVR recording settings include a choice of whether to record new episodes only, or new and rerun episodes. I thought that when they say 'new episodes' that means episodes that haven't ever been aired before. No, 'new episodes' means episodes that the DVR has never recorded before. So if I put SouthPark in as a 'favorite' and told it to record only new episodes, it'll still record every episode it can find since it had never recorded any before. I thought this had to be a mistake, but in addition to experiencing exactly this, 2 seperate conversations with 2 seperate techs at Fios confirmed this. This is a huge strike against their DVR for my purposes. But on top of that, the DVR sometimes continued to record episodes that I had already recorded on the Fios DVR, watched on the DVR, and deleted from the DVR, as if I had never even recorded them.


The next problem I had was with the programming guide information. Even after allowing ample time for the DVR to download completely, the guide information was significantly generic. Many show descriptions were only just basic SERIES descriptions, (not even an episode description) and didn't include original air dates. The EPG (electronic programing guide) in SageTV was reliably comprehensive and this is what I expected from Fios. Fios tech support tried to tell me it was because the networks didn't make specific episode information available, but when I asked them how SageTV (who uses Zap2it's EPG) was able to have it, they didn't have an answer. This was a problem for me when trying to manually prune through the huge lists of scheduled recording the DVR was accumulating because it couldn't differential between reruns and actually new episodes.


The next problem I had was with what Fios tech support calls 'lip-synching' which is when the audio and video of a show get slightly out of synch so that I hear someone still talking after I see them close their mouth. This happened with recorded shows and live shows, and Verizon's only suggestion for fixing it was to reset my box which did not solve the problem. It didn't happen for every show, but often enough that it wasn't a fluke.


Next, sometimes when I would tune in to a live channel that was available to me (not a premium channel like HBO), I would get a message "Currently Unavailable" on top of a black screen. If I change the channel, then change back to the original channel it would often clear this up, but not always. I shouldn't have to do this in the first place.


Next, when watching recorded shows and FFing through commercials, sometimes the DVR would get hung when I would press PLAY to resume watching. For example, I'd be FFing through commercials, get to the return of the show and press PLAY and it would act as it I pressed PAUSE. It would not respond to any remote control button except for STOP, which would then force me to go back in to the DVR's menu, and resume the playback.


Another problem I had was that when a scheduled recording would be recorded, sometimes in addition to the full intended episode, it would also record 7 or 8 second clips of the same show. So I might have, what it considered 3 copies of the same recording. More rarely, the intended episode would not be recorded at all but the 7 or 8 second clips would be, so I wouldn't have a full recording of the show at all.


Continuing on, sometimes when watching a playback, usually of an HD recording, the show would 'catch'. Meaning, the video would pause for a second or two, as if I had hit PAUSE, but the audio would continue as it should. Then the video would catch up. It makes continuity very choppy and distracting.


Lastly, the DVR box was often slow to respond to my remote's commands. When I'd press a button, it could take up to 4-5 seconds to respond to it (even when not recording any shows). Aside from the annoyance, it sometimes caused a problem for me because I'd hit the button again, thinking I didn't press the button correctly, and when the DVR catches up, it would sometimes do something I wasn't trying to tell it to do because of the extra commands it received.


All of these issues occurred much more than just once for me, and I called Fios tech support 3 or 4 times regarding them - the last of these calls I was on with a rep for over an hour discussing all these issues. The only resolution suggestions I'd ever gotten from Fios tech support was to reset the box. During one of my first calls, the tech remotely reset my box to try to clear up some of these issues. It did not help. During one of the last calls, the tech offered to remotely do a major reset of the box, which potentially could have erased all the scheduled recordings I had set up (and spent so much time pruning through). I agreed to let him do it. It did not solve any of the problems, nor did it delete any scheduled recordings.


To get my dual-tuner SageTV DVR to work with Fios (so I could not have to use the Fios DVR) would require a USBUIRT device, an IR emitter, 2 more Fios digital converters from Verizon, and (what I perceived to be) significant time of trial and error getting all of those things to work correctly. I chose not to.


Yesterday, 2 days before the end of Fios' 30-day customer satisfaction period, I called to cancel my Fios TV and Internet service. The rep asked what he could do to keep me, and I explained all the issues I was having. I said that there is absolutely nothing you could realistically do to keep me - even if you gave me the service for free - because the majority of the problems is how the STB works (or doesn't, for that fact). So of course I'll pay for the time I used the service, but I will not have to pay the Fios contract's ETF.


With my head hung in shame, I crawled back to Comcast. I was sure they had deals to entice Fios customers back, so they offered me their HD DVR box with HD service and 6/2MB internet for $83/month. With Comcast's service, I can use my SageTV box again, and if I feel like recording anything in HD I can use Comcast's HD DVR.


Interesting note, Fios' HD channels are noticeable better quality than Comcast's; but that's not a major factor to me. Another FYI: The Fios equipment installed in my house will remain because now my Verizon phone service runs through it. I didn't want Comcast's VoIP.


So there it is, my experience with Fios. I am so disappointed in the TV service. I realize that I may have higher expectations than other consumers, possibly because I am spoiled by SageTV. But I don't think my expectations are unreasonable. Mostly, I was just expecting the STB to do what it was supposed to be doing. I may try Fios again in a couple years, after they've had more time to work out these bugs.


----------



## AJF

Thanks for your post heavylee. Fios is just coming to my area and I was going to switch over to it but after reading your experience with it, I think I'll pass.


----------



## PWH1

I had FIOS TV installed a week ago with the 7216 STB. I love the service and find it the PQ and overall offering to be excellent. However, one feature I cannot seem to locate on FIOS is the feature to set a program reminder. I really enjoyed this feature and used it quite often with my previous cable provider (Time Warner).


Is anyone familiar with this feature on FIOS? If so, any info would be appreciated.


Thanks.


----------



## ccotenj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heavylee* /forum/post/14720926
> 
> 
> Interesting note, Fios' HD channels are noticeable better quality than Comcast's; but that's not a major factor to me.



this is why i live with the quirks of the dvr... noticeably better picture quality trumps any dvr issues...


although i have to say that i don't experience a lot of the issues that you are pointing out... no lip-synch problems... no responsiveness problems... etc.


----------



## RandyWalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ccotenj* /forum/post/14906270
> 
> 
> this is why i live with the quirks of the dvr... noticeably better picture quality trumps any dvr issues...
> 
> 
> although i have to say that i don't experience a lot of the issues that you are pointing out... no lip-synch problems... no responsiveness problems... etc.



The FIOS CableCards work great in a TivoHD - you get the nice Tivo functionality plus the excellent picture quality of the FIOS service. I wish i had FIOS available in my town but we're AT&T here so no go. I see lots of complaints about the FIOS DVRs so maybe TivoHD would be a better choice.


----------



## ccotenj

yea randy, i've strongly considered getting a tivo to get around dealing with the qipxxxx boxes... i just have to convince myself to spend the coin...


----------



## parallel

Isn't it the case that if you use cable cards with your S3 or TivoHD that you can't do HBO On Demand (or Showtime On Demand, etc) to catch up to those shows that you have heard about and want to try? For example, I'd be interested in getting Showtime on Demand and watching "The Wire" and "Dexter" from the beginning. That can't be done with the current cable cards I think.


A Tivo HD with Verizon quality picture would be the ultimate combination of picture quality and DVR usability.


----------



## Les_Paul




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heavylee* /forum/post/14720926
> 
> 
> Continuing on, sometimes when watching a playback, usually of an HD recording, the show would 'catch'. Meaning, the video would pause for a second or two, as if I had hit PAUSE, but the audio would continue as it should. Then the video would catch up. It makes continuity very choppy and distracting.
> 
> 
> Lastly, the DVR box was often slow to respond to my remote's commands. When I'd press a button, it could take up to 4-5 seconds to respond to it (even when not recording any shows). Aside from the annoyance, it sometimes caused a problem for me because I'd hit the button again, thinking I didn't press the button correctly, and when the DVR catches up, it would sometimes do something I wasn't trying to tell it to do because of the extra commands it received.
> 
> 
> All of these issues occurred much more than just once for me, and I called Fios tech support 3 or 4 times regarding them - the last of these calls I was on with a rep for over an hour discussing all these issues. The only resolution suggestions I'd ever gotten from Fios tech support was to reset the box. During one of my first calls, the tech remotely reset my box to try to clear up some of these issues. It did not help. During one of the last calls, the tech offered to remotely do a major reset of the box, which potentially could have erased all the scheduled recordings I had set up (and spent so much time pruning through). I agreed to let him do it. It did not solve any of the problems, nor did it delete any scheduled recordings.



My experience exactly. Fios tech support is literally pathetic. They treat the customer as if we're complete morons and don't offer any real technical knowledge. I talked to them tonight for an hour only to have them tell me they can't connect to my HD DVR in order to do a cold init. Pathetic doesn't even scratch the surface.


Chris


----------



## demonfoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *parallel* /forum/post/15037534
> 
> 
> Isn't it the case that if you use cable cards with your S3 or TivoHD that you can't do HBO On Demand (or Showtime On Demand, etc) to catch up to those shows that you have heard about and want to try? For example, I'd be interested in getting Showtime on Demand and watching "The Wire" and "Dexter" from the beginning. That can't be done with the current cable cards I think.
> 
> 
> A Tivo HD with Verizon quality picture would be the ultimate combination of picture quality and DVR usability.



Unfortunately that's correct. UDCP devices like the TiVo HD can't do interactive services like iPPV and VOD. However, you can get their plain old non-DVR STB and have the TiVo - from what I've read, it really does blow FiOS' DVR box out of the water.


----------



## dennisv21

I just ordered FiOS TV and will have it installed later this week. I noticed my order includes the Motorola DCT-700 Digital Adapter. I assume the DCT-700 is a DVR, but I noticed that equipment does not have an external serial ATA disk interface. I would like to have SATA to hook up my external drive to record shows that don't fit on the DCT-700. Should I change my order to the Motorola 7216 HD DVR? or am I stuck with the DCT-700?


----------



## demonfoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dennisv21* /forum/post/15308115
> 
> 
> I just ordered FiOS TV and will have it installed later this week. I noticed my order includes the Motorola DCT-700 Digital Adapter. I assume the DCT-700 is a DVR, but I noticed that equipment does not have an external serial ATA disk interface. I would like to have SATA to hook up my external drive to record shows that don't fit on the DCT-700. Should I change my order to the Motorola 7216 HD DVR? or am I stuck with the DCT-700?



The DCT700 is a very small, very cut-down STB, set up to be "just enough" for receiving cable programming on an SD TV. It is not a DVR, and I'm not sure if it even has a guide. If you're expecting DVR functionality from it, you're going to be pretty disappointed. Might want to switch to an actual DVR box if that's what you're expecting...


----------



## CTarna

Most of the expandability questions/ input is from over 1 year ago.


Has Verizon allowed for an external HD attachment yet? I am quite unsatisfied with the minimal storage space on the DVR.


----------



## bfdtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CTarna* /forum/post/15338556
> 
> 
> Most of the expandability questions/ input is from over 1 year ago.
> 
> 
> Has Verizon allowed for an external HD attachment yet? I am quite unsatisfied with the minimal storage space on the DVR.



Unfortunately, no.


No provider in the United States currently offers a Motorola DVR with functional support for storage expansion. Verizon does hope to support eSATA expansion in 2009, but that will all depend on whether Motorola can make that capability function reliably with DRM. There are unconfirmed reports that Verizon may deploy a DVR with a 320GB hard drive at some point in 2009, but there is nothing concrete on that yet.


For the short to intermediate term, you'll have to buy a TivoHD or TivoHD XL if want more than 160GB storage in a standalone HDTV DVR for FiOS.











If it wasn't obvious from the above, my TivoHD has a 1TB hard drive for 160+ HD hours capacity.


----------



## vail55

I also have had a constant problem with the dvr. After watching recorded programming on another tv I always get an error about 40 to 60 minutes into my movie or game and I have to start watching the show from the beginning again. The error says can not locate network hub...







It is so frustrating. I called tech support and they say Verizon is aware of the problem and is working on it. In the meantime power off and restart the DVR only. (It does not help).

I agree the verizon guide is almost worthless. Not even close sometimes. I doubt I will pay $19.99 a month for this, when I can go back to tivo and at least know the guide works and the recoded programs will not reset to the beginning every hour.

Fios picture quality and the internet is the best, but customer service is the worst trying to get through to anyone! It is worse than cable if you can believe that!


----------



## bfdtv

The "cannot locate network hub" is a fairly common problem with the current version of Verizon's MRDVR software.


Verizon is expected to address some issues with their current software in a 1.6.1 update due in late January or February. People are hoping it will address the "cannot locate network hub" issue, as well as the degraded SD output on the 6416 which was introduced with the 1.6.0 software.


Unfortunately, Verizon plans to stick with its current guide data provider (FYI Television) for the foreseeable future, so no help is expected on that front.


----------



## John Meno

I have FIOS DVR and although I think FIOS is the best quality all together, the fact that the DVR is so aweful makes me think of going back to directv and get the TIVO. I miss my old TIVO more and more. This thing is just plain aweful! I complained about the DirecTV HR20 and that thing was great compared to this motorola garbage. My video settings just change for no reason. Every time I turn on my TV in my HT, I have to change the video settings from 480i to 1080i. Then the DVR itself is so slow and glitchy. On top of that, for some reason my DVR in my HT only has about 13 hours of space on there instead of the 35 it's supposed to have. My living room version actually seems to hold the 35 hours but that is just as slow and glitchy. The DVR in my living room already had to be replaced after the first one just died after about 3 days. luckily it was under warranty.


I might go with the TIVO with the cable card eventually or go back to DirecTV.


----------



## bobbygrin22

I with you on this one John. The FiOS DVR just sucks compared to the Dish DVR. I'm thinking about cancelling as well.


----------



## M3 adjuster

John and Bobby...

If you have Verizon Fios... then turn in the Fios DVR and get a Tivo HD.

I just had my Fios installed last week. I have a free Fios DVR in the bedroom for 6 months. For my living room, I purchased a Tivo HD... Check on Tivo Community for posts under my name on where you can get the best price. You can also find deals on the lifetime service on ebay. I got the Tivo HD and the lifetime service and they will be saving money in three years versus paying the $15-20 a month through FIOS. I was able to get my installer to locate an M card for my Tivo, as opposed to using two S cards. Tivo is far and away better than any other DVR. After my free six months, I will add a second Tivo in the bedroom.


----------



## Steve1033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *heavylee* /forum/post/14720926
> 
> 
> I had been a Comcast customer for years and years, and honestly never had too many problems. My service was not flakey, and I didn't need to call them very often - except to haggle with them to be put on a pricing promotion each time the previous promo ran out. But I felt like my luck couldn't last forever, and I disrespect Comcast for the way that they overall run their business. So I was very excited to see that Fios fiber was being run in to my neighborhood.
> 
> 
> About 6 weeks ago, I got a call from a Verizon salesperson offering Fios services and I chose to get my POTS service moved to Fios, 10/2 Internet, HD TV service with one HD DVR, and a basic converter box for my old crappy TV. All this was about $110/month.
> 
> 
> On the day of installation almost exactly one month ago, the installer arrived at the beginning of the appointment time block and was very friendly and knowledgeable. The area of my house where Comcast/Verizon service comes in is about 20 feet from the pole that Fios was strung to, so they didn't bury the fiber (which is what I preferred). Installation went quickly and without problem.
> 
> 
> My telephone service is fine - no change in service quality, none expected. Their internet service was as fast as I signed up for. I did several speed tests at different times of day and 10/2 is pretty much what I was getting. Wifey and I don't do any online gaming, nor heavy downloading. Mostly just typical surfing and email activities. Once in a while, I'll upload a bunch of content to my website, but a couple dozen MBs would be rare.
> 
> 
> The TV service was a horrible experience for me. Bare with me as this part is going to get quite long-winded. Previously with Comcast, I was using a home-built DVR (SageTV). But since I had ordered the Fios DVR which has a dual tuner, I thought I'd be all set to be able to fully replace the functionality (that I love) of SageTV and everything would be perfect in HD quality. Boy was I wrong.
> 
> 
> The DVR recording settings include a choice of whether to record new episodes only, or new and rerun episodes. I thought that when they say 'new episodes' that means episodes that haven't ever been aired before. No, 'new episodes' means episodes that the DVR has never recorded before. So if I put SouthPark in as a 'favorite' and told it to record only new episodes, it'll still record every episode it can find since it had never recorded any before. I thought this had to be a mistake, but in addition to experiencing exactly this, 2 seperate conversations with 2 seperate techs at Fios confirmed this. This is a huge strike against their DVR for my purposes. But on top of that, the DVR sometimes continued to record episodes that I had already recorded on the Fios DVR, watched on the DVR, and deleted from the DVR, as if I had never even recorded them.
> 
> 
> The next problem I had was with the programming guide information. Even after allowing ample time for the DVR to download completely, the guide information was significantly generic. Many show descriptions were only just basic SERIES descriptions, (not even an episode description) and didn't include original air dates. The EPG (electronic programing guide) in SageTV was reliably comprehensive and this is what I expected from Fios. Fios tech support tried to tell me it was because the networks didn't make specific episode information available, but when I asked them how SageTV (who uses Zap2it's EPG) was able to have it, they didn't have an answer. This was a problem for me when trying to manually prune through the huge lists of scheduled recording the DVR was accumulating because it couldn't differential between reruns and actually new episodes.
> 
> 
> The next problem I had was with what Fios tech support calls 'lip-synching' which is when the audio and video of a show get slightly out of synch so that I hear someone still talking after I see them close their mouth. This happened with recorded shows and live shows, and Verizon's only suggestion for fixing it was to reset my box which did not solve the problem. It didn't happen for every show, but often enough that it wasn't a fluke.
> 
> 
> Next, sometimes when I would tune in to a live channel that was available to me (not a premium channel like HBO), I would get a message "Currently Unavailable" on top of a black screen. If I change the channel, then change back to the original channel it would often clear this up, but not always. I shouldn't have to do this in the first place.
> 
> 
> Next, when watching recorded shows and FFing through commercials, sometimes the DVR would get hung when I would press PLAY to resume watching. For example, I'd be FFing through commercials, get to the return of the show and press PLAY and it would act as it I pressed PAUSE. It would not respond to any remote control button except for STOP, which would then force me to go back in to the DVR's menu, and resume the playback.
> 
> 
> Another problem I had was that when a scheduled recording would be recorded, sometimes in addition to the full intended episode, it would also record 7 or 8 second clips of the same show. So I might have, what it considered 3 copies of the same recording. More rarely, the intended episode would not be recorded at all but the 7 or 8 second clips would be, so I wouldn't have a full recording of the show at all.
> 
> 
> Continuing on, sometimes when watching a playback, usually of an HD recording, the show would 'catch'. Meaning, the video would pause for a second or two, as if I had hit PAUSE, but the audio would continue as it should. Then the video would catch up. It makes continuity very choppy and distracting.
> 
> 
> Lastly, the DVR box was often slow to respond to my remote's commands. When I'd press a button, it could take up to 4-5 seconds to respond to it (even when not recording any shows). Aside from the annoyance, it sometimes caused a problem for me because I'd hit the button again, thinking I didn't press the button correctly, and when the DVR catches up, it would sometimes do something I wasn't trying to tell it to do because of the extra commands it received.
> 
> 
> All of these issues occurred much more than just once for me, and I called Fios tech support 3 or 4 times regarding them - the last of these calls I was on with a rep for over an hour discussing all these issues. The only resolution suggestions I'd ever gotten from Fios tech support was to reset the box. During one of my first calls, the tech remotely reset my box to try to clear up some of these issues. It did not help. During one of the last calls, the tech offered to remotely do a major reset of the box, which potentially could have erased all the scheduled recordings I had set up (and spent so much time pruning through). I agreed to let him do it. It did not solve any of the problems, nor did it delete any scheduled recordings.
> 
> 
> To get my dual-tuner SageTV DVR to work with Fios (so I could not have to use the Fios DVR) would require a USBUIRT device, an IR emitter, 2 more Fios digital converters from Verizon, and (what I perceived to be) significant time of trial and error getting all of those things to work correctly. I chose not to.
> 
> 
> Yesterday, 2 days before the end of Fios' 30-day customer satisfaction period, I called to cancel my Fios TV and Internet service. The rep asked what he could do to keep me, and I explained all the issues I was having. I said that there is absolutely nothing you could realistically do to keep me - even if you gave me the service for free - because the majority of the problems is how the STB works (or doesn't, for that fact). So of course I'll pay for the time I used the service, but I will not have to pay the Fios contract's ETF.
> 
> 
> With my head hung in shame, I crawled back to Comcast. I was sure they had deals to entice Fios customers back, so they offered me their HD DVR box with HD service and 6/2MB internet for $83/month. With Comcast's service, I can use my SageTV box again, and if I feel like recording anything in HD I can use Comcast's HD DVR.
> 
> 
> Interesting note, Fios' HD channels are noticeable better quality than Comcast's; but that's not a major factor to me. Another FYI: The Fios equipment installed in my house will remain because now my Verizon phone service runs through it. I didn't want Comcast's VoIP.
> 
> 
> So there it is, my experience with Fios. I am so disappointed in the TV service. I realize that I may have higher expectations than other consumers, possibly because I am spoiled by SageTV. But I don't think my expectations are unreasonable. Mostly, I was just expecting the STB to do what it was supposed to be doing. I may try Fios again in a couple years, after they've had more time to work out these bugs.



How I wish I had read your now eerily familar assessment before I got switched to Fios TV, Phone and Internet. Fios has been a terrible dissapointment coming from DirecTV, with a TiVo interface; the DVR is shocking, all Tech Support want to do is reset the box and all I want to do now is turn the clock back 3 weeks. I urge anyone considering switching to only do so if your previous user interface was a rotary channel selection dial on the front of your TV; if you are equipped with any technology beyond that you are taking a step backwards by taking on the FIOS user interface. I can only hope DirecTV will have me back!


----------



## Forseti




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *M3 adjuster* /forum/post/15907534
> 
> 
> John and Bobby...
> 
> If you have Verizon Fios... then turn in the Fios DVR and get a Tivo HD.
> 
> I just had my Fios installed last week. I have a free Fios DVR in the bedroom for 6 months. For my living room, I purchased a Tivo HD... Check on Tivo Community for posts under my name on where you can get the best price. You can also find deals on the lifetime service on ebay. I got the Tivo HD and the lifetime service and they will be saving money in three years versus paying the $15-20 a month through FIOS. I was able to get my installer to locate an M card for my Tivo, as opposed to using two S cards. Tivo is far and away better than any other DVR. After my free six months, I will add a second Tivo in the bedroom.



Is there a way to stream recorded shows to other TVs in the house using TIVo?


----------



## bfdtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve1033* /forum/post/16133177
> 
> 
> How I wish I had read your now eerily familar assessment before I got switched to Fios TV, Phone and Internet. Fios has been a terrible dissapointment coming from DirecTV, with a TiVo interface; the DVR is shocking, all Tech Support want to do is reset the box and all I want to do now is turn the clock back 3 weeks. I urge anyone considering switching to only do so if your previous user interface was a rotary channel selection dial on the front of your TV; if you are equipped with any technology beyond that you are taking a step backwards by taking on the FIOS user interface. I can only hope DirecTV will have me back!



You are aware that TiVo is available for FiOS, right?


Many on this forum use FiOS with the TivoHD. The TivoHD is like your old DirecTiVo, except it is based on newer/faster hardware with a much newer version of the TiVo software. More information in my signature.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Forseti* /forum/post/16137128
> 
> 
> Is there a way to stream recorded shows to other TVs in the house using TIVo?



The TivoHD supports multiroom viewing with both HD and SD. However, it only works between TiVos; it won't stream to Motorola boxes.


You can see a few screenshots of multi-room on the TiVoHD right here .


----------

